WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.640 This episode is sponsored by Transcend, a veteran 00:00:02.640 --> 00:00:04.960 -owned and operated performance optimization 00:00:04.960 --> 00:00:08.039 company that I introduced recently as a sponsor 00:00:08.039 --> 00:00:10.820 on this show. Well, since then I have actually 00:00:10.820 --> 00:00:13.080 been using my products and I have had incredible 00:00:13.080 --> 00:00:15.939 success. There was initial blood work that was 00:00:15.939 --> 00:00:19.039 extremely detailed and based on that they offered 00:00:19.039 --> 00:00:23.519 supplementation. So I began taking DHEA. BPC 00:00:23.519 --> 00:00:26.399 -157 for inflammation based on the fact that 00:00:26.399 --> 00:00:28.300 I've been a stuntman, a martial artist and a 00:00:28.300 --> 00:00:30.579 firefighter my whole life. Lots of aches and 00:00:30.579 --> 00:00:33.880 pains. Dihexa to help cognition after multiple 00:00:33.880 --> 00:00:36.899 punches to the head and shift work and peptides. 00:00:37.079 --> 00:00:39.520 Four months later they did a detailed blood work 00:00:39.520 --> 00:00:42.259 again and I was actually able to taper off two 00:00:42.259 --> 00:00:44.479 of the peptides because my body had responded 00:00:44.479 --> 00:00:47.100 so well to just one of them that it was optimized 00:00:47.100 --> 00:00:50.530 at that point. So I cannot speak highly enough 00:00:50.530 --> 00:00:53.530 of the immense range of supplementation that 00:00:53.530 --> 00:00:55.789 they offer, whether it's male health, female 00:00:55.789 --> 00:00:58.530 health, peptides to boost your own testosterone, 00:00:58.630 --> 00:01:00.829 which I would argue is needed by a lot of the 00:01:00.829 --> 00:01:03.570 fire service, or whether it's exogenous testosterone 00:01:03.570 --> 00:01:06.750 needed, especially after TBIs or advanced age. 00:01:07.239 --> 00:01:09.480 Now, as I mentioned before, the other side of 00:01:09.480 --> 00:01:11.980 this company is an altruistic arm called the 00:01:11.980 --> 00:01:14.859 Transcend Foundation, which is putting veterans 00:01:14.859 --> 00:01:17.620 and first responders through some of their protocols 00:01:17.620 --> 00:01:21.340 free of charge. Now, Transcend are also offering 00:01:21.340 --> 00:01:24.019 you, the audience, 10 % off their protocols. 00:01:24.239 --> 00:01:27.120 And you can find that on jamesgearing .com under 00:01:27.120 --> 00:01:29.840 the Products tab. And if you want to hear more 00:01:29.840 --> 00:01:32.560 about Transcend and their story, listen to episode 00:01:32.560 --> 00:01:37.390 808 with the founder, Ernie Colling. or go to 00:01:37.390 --> 00:01:42.230 transcendcompany .com. Welcome to the Behind 00:01:42.230 --> 00:01:44.209 the Shield podcast. As always, my name is James 00:01:44.209 --> 00:01:46.170 Gearing, and this week it is my absolute honor 00:01:46.170 --> 00:01:49.250 to welcome on the show veteran fitness trainer 00:01:49.250 --> 00:01:53.950 and firefighter Ryan Provencher. Now, in this 00:01:53.950 --> 00:01:56.989 conversation, we discuss a host of topics, from 00:01:56.989 --> 00:02:00.469 the volunteer fire service, personal training, 00:02:00.750 --> 00:02:04.890 his journey into career firefighting, fitness 00:02:04.890 --> 00:02:09.020 standards, training the tactical athlete, longevity, 00:02:09.699 --> 00:02:14.500 programming, tack fit, and so much more. Now, 00:02:14.520 --> 00:02:16.259 before we get to this incredible conversation, 00:02:16.500 --> 00:02:19.039 as I say every week, please just take a moment, 00:02:19.180 --> 00:02:22.580 go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe 00:02:22.580 --> 00:02:26.439 to the show, leave feedback, and leave a rating. 00:02:27.389 --> 00:02:30.409 Every single five -star rating truly does elevate 00:02:30.409 --> 00:02:33.069 this podcast, therefore making it easier for 00:02:33.069 --> 00:02:36.729 others to find. And this is a free library of 00:02:36.729 --> 00:02:41.870 well over 1 ,100 episodes now. So all I ask in 00:02:41.870 --> 00:02:45.169 return is that you help share these incredible 00:02:45.169 --> 00:02:47.830 men and women's stories so I can get them to 00:02:47.830 --> 00:02:50.889 every single person on planet Earth who needs 00:02:50.889 --> 00:03:18.449 to hear them. Provencher. Enjoy Well, Ryan, I 00:03:18.449 --> 00:03:21.009 want to start by saying two things. Firstly, 00:03:21.169 --> 00:03:23.550 thank you to our mutual friend, John Wolfe, for 00:03:23.550 --> 00:03:25.750 making this introduction. And secondly, I want 00:03:25.750 --> 00:03:27.710 to welcome you onto the Behind the Shield podcast 00:03:27.710 --> 00:03:32.069 today. Well, thanks, James. I'm a longtime listener, 00:03:32.270 --> 00:03:34.889 first -time caller, as they say. I really appreciate 00:03:34.889 --> 00:03:37.590 the work that you're doing, and I definitely 00:03:37.590 --> 00:03:39.509 enjoy your show. Yeah, I know we've been connected 00:03:39.509 --> 00:03:41.650 online for a long time, and I say this to people 00:03:41.650 --> 00:03:44.169 all the time. The universe or God has a funny 00:03:44.169 --> 00:03:47.060 way of... bringing people together like when 00:03:47.060 --> 00:03:49.180 it's supposed to. There's people I've done an 00:03:49.180 --> 00:03:51.060 interview and if we did it originally when we 00:03:51.060 --> 00:03:53.000 first met, it wouldn't have been the same conversation. 00:03:53.319 --> 00:03:56.500 So clearly we were meant to do this today. Yeah, 00:03:56.620 --> 00:03:58.979 I know. It feels like good timing for sure. Absolutely. 00:03:59.080 --> 00:04:01.300 So where on planet Earth are we finding you today? 00:04:02.439 --> 00:04:04.919 So I'm in Bellingham, Washington, and that is 00:04:04.919 --> 00:04:07.460 probably just right between Seattle, Washington 00:04:07.460 --> 00:04:11.199 and Vancouver, BC. Okay. Brilliant. So I would 00:04:11.199 --> 00:04:13.439 love to start at the very beginning of your timeline. 00:04:13.539 --> 00:04:15.060 You mentioned what your father did before we 00:04:15.060 --> 00:04:17.879 hit record. So tell me where you were born and 00:04:17.879 --> 00:04:19.439 tell me a little bit about your family dynamic, 00:04:19.660 --> 00:04:22.879 what your parents did, how many siblings. So 00:04:22.879 --> 00:04:25.220 I was born in Pullman, Washington. That's the 00:04:25.220 --> 00:04:28.769 home of Washington State University. we were 00:04:28.769 --> 00:04:31.730 talking before the show my dad he got his master's 00:04:31.730 --> 00:04:33.750 degree in criminal justice from washington state 00:04:33.750 --> 00:04:37.449 he worked in pullman as a police officer before 00:04:37.449 --> 00:04:39.990 i was born that's why he and my mother were living 00:04:39.990 --> 00:04:44.160 in pullman and then I have two brothers and all 00:04:44.160 --> 00:04:46.500 three of us also went to Washington State University. 00:04:46.779 --> 00:04:48.959 One of my brothers is also a police officer. 00:04:49.160 --> 00:04:51.819 So that's where my story starts. It starts in 00:04:51.819 --> 00:04:54.839 Pullman, Washington. I really lived a charmed 00:04:54.839 --> 00:04:58.399 life growing up. My mom was stay at home primarily. 00:04:58.639 --> 00:05:03.060 My dad worked, but both of them were super involved 00:05:03.060 --> 00:05:06.839 in our lives. I have two younger brothers. And 00:05:06.839 --> 00:05:11.500 looking back on my own life, I'm... 53 years 00:05:11.500 --> 00:05:13.800 old now. I'm looking at retirement from my career 00:05:13.800 --> 00:05:17.189 as a firefighter. My dad passed away at the end 00:05:17.189 --> 00:05:19.509 of this last year, and I've had a chance to really 00:05:19.509 --> 00:05:22.889 reflect on the influence that he has had on me. 00:05:23.230 --> 00:05:25.290 Certainly my mother as well, my brothers, but 00:05:25.290 --> 00:05:27.589 my dad in particular, going all the way back 00:05:27.589 --> 00:05:31.230 to his work in law enforcement. He later was 00:05:31.230 --> 00:05:33.529 hired as a special agent with alcohol, tobacco, 00:05:33.769 --> 00:05:36.930 and firearms. And so we moved, our family moved 00:05:36.930 --> 00:05:39.129 to Kirkland, Washington, which is a suburb of 00:05:39.129 --> 00:05:42.399 Seattle. Throughout his whole law enforcement 00:05:42.399 --> 00:05:45.959 career, he was very much into fitness. So if 00:05:45.959 --> 00:05:48.600 you can picture those old school weights that 00:05:48.600 --> 00:05:50.939 were cement, plastic cement weights with the 00:05:50.939 --> 00:05:52.920 dust that would come out of that. He had that 00:05:52.920 --> 00:05:54.819 whole setup in the garage. He would work out 00:05:54.819 --> 00:05:57.899 in the garage. He would invite my brothers and 00:05:57.899 --> 00:06:00.420 I to join him, but never pushed it on us. He'd 00:06:00.420 --> 00:06:03.079 take us to the track with him. But really, he 00:06:03.079 --> 00:06:06.879 led by example in ways that I recognize now more 00:06:06.879 --> 00:06:10.459 than ever in terms of on one side of it. here's 00:06:10.459 --> 00:06:12.620 here's this man that's dedicated to his career 00:06:12.620 --> 00:06:15.120 in law enforcement while also being an amazing 00:06:15.120 --> 00:06:19.279 father figure husband family man and then demonstrating 00:06:19.279 --> 00:06:22.060 through his own commitment physical fitness and 00:06:22.060 --> 00:06:23.980 the benefits of that and then it just so happened 00:06:23.980 --> 00:06:27.819 timing wise i grew up in the 80s so just as i'm 00:06:27.819 --> 00:06:30.120 you know looking to my father as an influence 00:06:30.120 --> 00:06:33.379 and a mentor he he had a magazine subscription 00:06:33.379 --> 00:06:36.839 to field and stream and charles atlas ads were 00:06:36.839 --> 00:06:39.399 in the back you know the the muscular guy that 00:06:39.399 --> 00:06:42.839 that's gonna look after the kid getting Sam kicked 00:06:42.839 --> 00:06:45.879 in his face and Arnold Schwarzenegger and and 00:06:45.879 --> 00:06:49.339 uh Sylvester Stallone like even in our society 00:06:49.339 --> 00:06:52.819 you know fitness and and strength was was becoming 00:06:52.819 --> 00:06:56.100 more popular and and all of that had a massive 00:06:56.100 --> 00:06:59.879 influence on me in terms of uh really the whole 00:06:59.879 --> 00:07:01.819 path that I've chosen throughout my life both 00:07:01.819 --> 00:07:04.339 in the realm of physical fitness and then also 00:07:04.339 --> 00:07:06.930 now looking back on a career in firefighting 00:07:06.930 --> 00:07:11.769 going back a generation what was your father's 00:07:11.769 --> 00:07:14.790 upbringing like that it gave him this kind of 00:07:14.790 --> 00:07:17.629 discipline to stay in shape when some of our 00:07:17.629 --> 00:07:21.329 firefighters and cops don't have that same kind 00:07:21.329 --> 00:07:24.410 of um element ingrained in them when they enter 00:07:24.410 --> 00:07:27.490 the profession yeah and it's interesting looking 00:07:27.490 --> 00:07:30.329 back so he was raised on the east coast upstate 00:07:30.329 --> 00:07:34.060 new york uh he also my grandparents they had 00:07:34.060 --> 00:07:36.980 a whole amazing family his siblings so i think 00:07:36.980 --> 00:07:40.259 first of all just growing up in a in a very supportive 00:07:40.259 --> 00:07:43.019 environment just this whole idea of family and 00:07:43.019 --> 00:07:46.019 and support within the family and then i know 00:07:46.019 --> 00:07:48.879 that he was active his whole life so maybe not 00:07:48.879 --> 00:07:51.980 through formal fitness as we see it now but he 00:07:51.980 --> 00:07:54.180 was into hunting and he was into fishing and 00:07:54.180 --> 00:07:56.920 he was into the outdoors and so he was always 00:07:56.920 --> 00:07:59.879 very active doing different things and then the 00:07:59.879 --> 00:08:02.800 other thing i i know about him as i look at his 00:08:02.800 --> 00:08:05.540 achievements in his life he joined the army he 00:08:05.540 --> 00:08:08.430 was in the military police and I've even read 00:08:08.430 --> 00:08:11.730 letters that he wrote to his parents about his 00:08:11.730 --> 00:08:15.850 goals to be in law enforcement, what it was going 00:08:15.850 --> 00:08:18.449 to take for him to be successful. And so I think 00:08:18.449 --> 00:08:20.970 that's a big part of it is he had specific goals 00:08:20.970 --> 00:08:23.910 that he wanted to achieve. And he just knew intuitively 00:08:23.910 --> 00:08:27.550 that being physically fit and kind of being squirt 00:08:27.550 --> 00:08:30.750 away was going to be a prerequisite to achieving 00:08:30.750 --> 00:08:32.990 the goals that he had set for himself. Did he 00:08:32.990 --> 00:08:36.279 see combat when he was in the military? I don't 00:08:36.279 --> 00:08:38.620 know. He was stationed in Korea for a period 00:08:38.620 --> 00:08:40.980 of time. It wasn't during the specific combat 00:08:40.980 --> 00:08:44.799 time, as I recall. And that's the other thing 00:08:44.799 --> 00:08:48.220 about my dad is in his service time, so whether 00:08:48.220 --> 00:08:51.159 it was his military career, even his career in 00:08:51.159 --> 00:08:54.100 law enforcement, he never talked all that much 00:08:54.100 --> 00:08:56.159 with us about it. He certainly didn't go into 00:08:56.159 --> 00:08:59.080 details of it. it was only later in life where 00:08:59.080 --> 00:09:01.139 I really discovered some of the things that he 00:09:01.139 --> 00:09:03.379 was involved with or he would share anecdotes 00:09:03.379 --> 00:09:05.860 about his experience in law enforcement but it 00:09:05.860 --> 00:09:09.200 is it is interesting because when he was working 00:09:09.200 --> 00:09:11.759 as a special agent for alcohol tobacco and firearms 00:09:11.759 --> 00:09:16.580 he was assigned to my city Bellingham there were 00:09:16.580 --> 00:09:18.840 big arson investigations going on at the time 00:09:18.840 --> 00:09:21.679 and there was also a lot of undercover firearms 00:09:21.679 --> 00:09:24.379 work that he did in the city of Bellingham and 00:09:24.379 --> 00:09:27.519 fast forward just so happened. I tested for, 00:09:27.580 --> 00:09:29.419 I don't know how many departments to finally 00:09:29.419 --> 00:09:31.539 get hired in the city of Bellingham. And the 00:09:31.539 --> 00:09:34.539 fire chief, I'm sorry, the police chief worked 00:09:34.539 --> 00:09:37.340 with my dad over in Pullman. Several of the police 00:09:37.340 --> 00:09:40.179 officers worked with my dad in Pullman. A lot 00:09:40.179 --> 00:09:42.200 of the firefighters and certainly the folks in 00:09:42.200 --> 00:09:44.279 life safety knew my dad and his career. They 00:09:44.279 --> 00:09:46.799 knew him as a professional and spoke highly of 00:09:46.799 --> 00:09:49.419 him in terms of their experience of him and certainly 00:09:49.419 --> 00:09:51.899 didn't hurt. I don't know that it helped me get 00:09:51.899 --> 00:09:53.820 hired, but it certainly, once I was in the door. 00:09:54.519 --> 00:09:56.840 that familiarity and that those connections uh 00:09:56.840 --> 00:09:59.320 especially as a brand new firefighter were amazing 00:09:59.320 --> 00:10:02.460 for me to experience what's so great to hear 00:10:02.460 --> 00:10:05.799 about what you've told us your your father's 00:10:05.799 --> 00:10:09.220 family then your father as a parent himself and 00:10:09.220 --> 00:10:12.779 a partner and then here you are now is there's 00:10:12.779 --> 00:10:15.580 so many examples of generational trauma and i 00:10:15.580 --> 00:10:17.740 think this is a really kind of under discussed 00:10:17.740 --> 00:10:20.299 element of first responder mental health is what 00:10:20.299 --> 00:10:21.860 happened to us when we were younger and then 00:10:21.860 --> 00:10:23.379 what happened to our parents and our grandparents 00:10:23.379 --> 00:10:27.340 but you're this is a good example of what happens 00:10:27.340 --> 00:10:29.419 the other way you know if you we have generational 00:10:29.419 --> 00:10:32.000 trauma that we have generational healing i would 00:10:32.000 --> 00:10:33.960 assume that somewhere in the lineage there were 00:10:33.960 --> 00:10:36.220 some elements of trauma but if you were able 00:10:36.220 --> 00:10:40.470 to actually figure out how to deal with your 00:10:40.470 --> 00:10:42.610 own things your own struggles and turn them into 00:10:42.610 --> 00:10:45.470 strengths now all of a sudden you you know you 00:10:45.470 --> 00:10:48.529 raise a young man who becomes an incredible public 00:10:48.529 --> 00:10:51.049 servant and then he is present in his children's 00:10:51.049 --> 00:10:53.149 lives and here we are having this discussion 00:10:53.149 --> 00:10:55.250 today so it's beautiful to hear because i hear 00:10:55.250 --> 00:10:58.029 so many times kind of almost the opposite and 00:10:58.029 --> 00:11:00.070 then here we are showing that i mean that the 00:11:00.070 --> 00:11:03.330 dominoes are falling but the kind of domino positive 00:11:03.330 --> 00:11:07.090 or negative is up to us Yeah, no, and it's funny 00:11:07.090 --> 00:11:09.970 you say that. Again, I find myself at this stage 00:11:09.970 --> 00:11:13.490 of life, not only life, but also my career, really 00:11:13.490 --> 00:11:17.090 reflecting. Like I reflect a lot on my life and 00:11:17.090 --> 00:11:20.169 on my career and on my journey. And a big part 00:11:20.169 --> 00:11:22.070 of that is just the gratitude that I feel and 00:11:22.070 --> 00:11:25.919 the ability to look back and see. What I had 00:11:25.919 --> 00:11:27.860 access to as a young person and the mentorship 00:11:27.860 --> 00:11:29.940 and the influences that I had access to as a 00:11:29.940 --> 00:11:32.019 young person. So, you know, everything we're 00:11:32.019 --> 00:11:34.759 talking about in terms of my dad and his family 00:11:34.759 --> 00:11:38.139 and just over the years of, although not maybe 00:11:38.139 --> 00:11:41.059 intentional or packaged and delivered, like we 00:11:41.059 --> 00:11:43.820 talk about in terms of kind of, you know, how 00:11:43.820 --> 00:11:47.159 we have support or what we do to find balance 00:11:47.159 --> 00:11:49.679 or the idea that we discuss around resilience 00:11:49.679 --> 00:11:54.019 and things like that. I've certainly had. multiple 00:11:54.019 --> 00:11:57.139 times of certainly times of crisis, I would say, 00:11:57.220 --> 00:12:00.639 most definitely seasons of challenge. And as 00:12:00.639 --> 00:12:04.159 I reflect back on how I was able to navigate 00:12:04.159 --> 00:12:06.620 those and I'm not, you know, I tinkered with 00:12:06.620 --> 00:12:08.659 all the stuff, right? I leaned on alcohol real 00:12:08.659 --> 00:12:12.059 heavy in some of those times. I didn't always 00:12:12.059 --> 00:12:16.000 make great choices, but in the end, I always 00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:19.059 did come back to. these healthy strategies that 00:12:19.059 --> 00:12:21.299 I just happen to be exposed to from a very young 00:12:21.299 --> 00:12:25.320 age and incorporate that into my healing or mitigating 00:12:25.320 --> 00:12:28.840 times of stress or getting back on track relative 00:12:28.840 --> 00:12:31.840 to goals that I have in my life. And then now 00:12:31.840 --> 00:12:35.600 my son, he just turned 19. He's a baseball athlete. 00:12:35.740 --> 00:12:39.940 And again, it's not necessarily front of mind, 00:12:40.100 --> 00:12:45.820 but I hope that he would tell you, hey, I'm intentionally 00:12:45.820 --> 00:12:48.360 or unintentionally. creating that same environment 00:12:48.360 --> 00:12:50.720 for him. And then he expressed interest in coming 00:12:50.720 --> 00:12:53.259 into the fire service just recently. He did a 00:12:53.259 --> 00:12:56.100 ride along with us for the first time this last 00:12:56.100 --> 00:12:58.720 couple of weeks. And his eyes are wide as saucers. 00:12:58.840 --> 00:13:01.000 He has this big smile on his face. He has that 00:13:01.000 --> 00:13:03.799 same energy in his body that you and I had when 00:13:03.799 --> 00:13:05.860 we were first exposed to the idea of becoming 00:13:05.860 --> 00:13:08.419 a firefighter and the dream of joining the fire 00:13:08.419 --> 00:13:10.799 service. And he has all that. And of course, 00:13:10.820 --> 00:13:13.100 in the back of my mind, I'm just like, oh man, 00:13:13.340 --> 00:13:16.970 you know, I know what lies ahead, but... i also 00:13:16.970 --> 00:13:19.690 know how you can manage that how you can hopefully 00:13:19.690 --> 00:13:22.529 access all of the wonderful things that the fire 00:13:22.529 --> 00:13:25.129 service has to offer and then man i just hope 00:13:25.129 --> 00:13:28.389 i can in some way support you and having these 00:13:28.389 --> 00:13:31.289 resources that you can lean into when you have 00:13:31.289 --> 00:13:33.090 any time of crisis or you're going through a 00:13:33.090 --> 00:13:34.950 season of challenge or you're having a tough 00:13:34.950 --> 00:13:37.490 time you know related to the work i i hope i 00:13:37.490 --> 00:13:39.809 can i hope i can share with my son what what 00:13:39.809 --> 00:13:42.970 my dad shared with me absolutely You mentioned 00:13:42.970 --> 00:13:45.470 about, you know, the kind of fitness environment 00:13:45.470 --> 00:13:48.269 that your dad exposed you to. This is something 00:13:48.269 --> 00:13:51.509 that's so apparent in the CrossFit gym now. We 00:13:51.509 --> 00:13:53.429 don't do what we have CrossFit still, but there's 00:13:53.429 --> 00:13:55.690 other things that we do in our programming now. 00:13:55.830 --> 00:13:59.509 But this gym, watching these people that when 00:13:59.509 --> 00:14:01.470 I first joined the gym over 10 years ago, had 00:14:01.470 --> 00:14:04.669 these little kids that are now these fit, athletic, 00:14:04.889 --> 00:14:07.299 you know, high schoolers and beyond. And it just 00:14:07.299 --> 00:14:10.759 goes to show that if you normalize wellness in 00:14:10.759 --> 00:14:14.240 your household, how you eat, how you move, it's 00:14:14.240 --> 00:14:16.440 hard for your children not to go down that path. 00:14:16.659 --> 00:14:19.100 And then obviously the other side is true as 00:14:19.100 --> 00:14:21.700 well. If you normalize fast food and inactivity, 00:14:21.899 --> 00:14:24.519 we see it. These poor little kids that are only 00:14:24.519 --> 00:14:27.340 five or six and already obese because that's 00:14:27.340 --> 00:14:28.960 the environment. That's how we've normalized 00:14:28.960 --> 00:14:32.480 it. So I wish that that was more understood, 00:14:32.620 --> 00:14:34.360 whether it was in the homes, in the schools, 00:14:34.419 --> 00:14:38.580 that the more... Not like athletic high performance, 00:14:38.799 --> 00:14:42.580 but just movement, just healthy choices that 00:14:42.580 --> 00:14:46.379 are surrounding a child, the higher chance they're 00:14:46.379 --> 00:14:48.539 going to be a healthy adult. But I don't see 00:14:48.539 --> 00:14:50.720 that happening in the States, especially with 00:14:50.720 --> 00:14:52.980 these calls of make America healthy again. I'm 00:14:52.980 --> 00:14:56.120 like, well, where's the changes? You've removed 00:14:56.120 --> 00:14:59.320 red dye, that's it, in seven months. So I think 00:14:59.320 --> 00:15:01.259 it's an important perspective because I see that 00:15:01.259 --> 00:15:05.049 firsthand. My son is an athlete too. And it's 00:15:05.049 --> 00:15:06.690 not like I've been some high level performance. 00:15:06.789 --> 00:15:11.570 I just exercise and I play sports and walk and 00:15:11.570 --> 00:15:14.649 just normal movement things. But again, I was 00:15:14.649 --> 00:15:16.669 spoiled. I grew up on a farm in England. So I 00:15:16.669 --> 00:15:19.289 think that there's so many, I'm rambling now, 00:15:19.370 --> 00:15:22.529 but so much power to creating an environment 00:15:22.529 --> 00:15:26.429 to normalize healthy habits rather than shaming 00:15:26.429 --> 00:15:28.250 someone who's out of condition saying, well, 00:15:28.269 --> 00:15:29.629 why don't you just do what I do? Well, you've 00:15:29.629 --> 00:15:32.919 got to change the environment too. Yeah. Yeah, 00:15:32.919 --> 00:15:35.240 and it has to start somewhere. And so whether 00:15:35.240 --> 00:15:38.299 that's in the home or there's mentorship in a 00:15:38.299 --> 00:15:40.379 school environment or a workplace environment 00:15:40.379 --> 00:15:43.259 or even, you know, the way it's portrayed in 00:15:43.259 --> 00:15:45.399 movies or television, there's all sorts of ways 00:15:45.399 --> 00:15:48.759 to pique the interest for folks. And then if 00:15:48.759 --> 00:15:51.279 they have that interest, you know, how do those 00:15:51.279 --> 00:15:52.980 of us that are kind of operating in the space, 00:15:53.080 --> 00:15:55.139 how do we meet them where they are to give them 00:15:55.139 --> 00:15:57.759 something that's accessible and to kind of take 00:15:57.759 --> 00:15:59.500 advantage of that spark, whether, again, it's 00:15:59.500 --> 00:16:02.039 in the school system or... the workplace or especially 00:16:02.039 --> 00:16:04.600 in the fire service you know how can we how can 00:16:04.600 --> 00:16:06.940 we just take that little spark and and fuel it 00:16:06.940 --> 00:16:08.360 and help it grow into something that's going 00:16:08.360 --> 00:16:11.480 to be actionable for them you've got an interesting 00:16:11.480 --> 00:16:13.419 perspective it's something i ask a lot of the 00:16:13.419 --> 00:16:15.820 coaches that come on and the the high level athletes 00:16:15.820 --> 00:16:19.000 as well when i first moved over here and again 00:16:19.000 --> 00:16:20.759 i apologize for people have heard this story 00:16:20.759 --> 00:16:24.299 many many times but um i was struck within a 00:16:24.299 --> 00:16:28.110 year or so how many uncle rico stories i heard 00:16:28.110 --> 00:16:29.990 like i could have would have should have if it 00:16:29.990 --> 00:16:32.789 wasn't for my acl my mcl my you know whatever 00:16:32.789 --> 00:16:35.730 labrum yeah and i started wondering because these 00:16:35.730 --> 00:16:39.450 now were deconditioned you know late 20s early 00:16:39.450 --> 00:16:42.330 30s and beyond and so i started wondering what 00:16:42.330 --> 00:16:45.389 what is going on you know that's breaking all 00:16:45.389 --> 00:16:48.330 these people when they're 16 17 18 years old 00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:52.139 And then you start hearing about travel ball 00:16:52.139 --> 00:16:55.059 and summer camps and all these elite training 00:16:55.059 --> 00:16:57.179 facilities that these young kids are going to. 00:16:57.980 --> 00:17:01.840 And you start to realize that in schools and 00:17:01.840 --> 00:17:05.220 colleges, in some schools and colleges, there's 00:17:05.220 --> 00:17:08.140 an element of performance being more important 00:17:08.140 --> 00:17:10.119 than the health and longevity of the students. 00:17:10.559 --> 00:17:13.160 Oh, absolutely. So you have a unique perspective. 00:17:13.319 --> 00:17:17.559 You're a veteran coach as well. What is your 00:17:17.559 --> 00:17:19.980 perspective of that? And how have you steered 00:17:19.980 --> 00:17:21.880 your son in baseball, which is obviously a high 00:17:21.880 --> 00:17:25.200 repetition sport, away from the overuse injuries 00:17:25.200 --> 00:17:28.319 and the burnout? Well, two sides of that coin. 00:17:28.559 --> 00:17:31.799 One is looking for my son's circumstance and 00:17:31.799 --> 00:17:34.200 even his friends. So unfortunately for him, he 00:17:34.200 --> 00:17:36.920 did sustain a shoulder injury. It was more specific 00:17:36.920 --> 00:17:39.920 to just being in a bad position on a pickoff 00:17:39.920 --> 00:17:43.339 play. It wasn't an overuse injury. He's working 00:17:43.339 --> 00:17:45.849 his way back from that. Almost every single one 00:17:45.849 --> 00:17:49.589 of his friends that had a really high ceiling 00:17:49.589 --> 00:17:52.430 as pitchers, every single one of them at the 00:17:52.430 --> 00:17:56.309 age of 18, all three, well, four now, they've 00:17:56.309 --> 00:17:59.349 had the Tommy John surgery based on a UCL rupture. 00:17:59.490 --> 00:18:02.569 And taking a step back and just as parents observing, 00:18:02.809 --> 00:18:05.589 really agreeing with what you're saying, where 00:18:05.589 --> 00:18:07.250 there's so much pressure on these kids, especially 00:18:07.250 --> 00:18:09.630 when they demonstrate this talent at a young 00:18:09.630 --> 00:18:12.259 age. Coaches are really trying to optimize that. 00:18:12.400 --> 00:18:15.480 Now these colleges are having these kids sign 00:18:15.480 --> 00:18:18.640 contracts and agreements to go to a specific 00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:21.259 school for a specific sport, and let's just say 00:18:21.259 --> 00:18:24.220 to pitch at a high level. And then they're already, 00:18:24.460 --> 00:18:28.680 without any attention to their longevity, throw 00:18:28.680 --> 00:18:30.759 faster, throw harder, throw faster, throw harder. 00:18:30.859 --> 00:18:33.579 And these kids are under enormous pressure to 00:18:33.579 --> 00:18:37.299 do that. And even my son, like, I want to go 00:18:37.299 --> 00:18:39.809 D1. I want to go D1. I want to. you know he has 00:18:39.809 --> 00:18:41.970 these big dreams of going big it's like okay 00:18:41.970 --> 00:18:44.049 well why don't we start at junior college like 00:18:44.049 --> 00:18:47.049 let's start at junior college let's let's ease 00:18:47.049 --> 00:18:49.329 into things you don't you don't have to go big 00:18:49.329 --> 00:18:52.069 right out of the gate and even for him he's 19 00:18:52.069 --> 00:18:54.569 years old now but he's still a little bit of 00:18:54.569 --> 00:18:56.329 a kind of a big puppy still you know he's not 00:18:56.329 --> 00:18:58.710 fully grown into his man strength yet although 00:18:58.710 --> 00:19:01.650 he's you know a big big kid but he's got a lot 00:19:01.650 --> 00:19:04.869 of growing to do and um i have friends that work 00:19:04.869 --> 00:19:06.569 over at washington state and i was talking to 00:19:06.569 --> 00:19:08.109 them about their baseball program and he was 00:19:08.109 --> 00:19:10.519 saying They rarely bring kids in from high school 00:19:10.519 --> 00:19:12.680 anymore for a couple of reasons. One is they 00:19:12.680 --> 00:19:14.559 haven't achieved that ceiling or they haven't 00:19:14.559 --> 00:19:17.859 grown into their man strength yet. And it benefits 00:19:17.859 --> 00:19:19.839 the university when they bring in athletes that 00:19:19.839 --> 00:19:22.559 have done that. And, you know, the kids get to 00:19:22.559 --> 00:19:25.259 really develop and grow in an environment that 00:19:25.259 --> 00:19:27.839 is a little bit less stressful, hopefully, than 00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:31.089 what you're seeing at these elite programs. One 00:19:31.089 --> 00:19:32.970 of the themes that comes through over and over 00:19:32.970 --> 00:19:36.269 again, as far as forging resilience and therefore, 00:19:36.349 --> 00:19:39.109 you know, reduction of injuries and much more, 00:19:39.210 --> 00:19:42.650 much longer lifespan when it comes to exercise 00:19:42.650 --> 00:19:45.589 and fitness is the multi -sport athlete. And 00:19:45.589 --> 00:19:47.589 I hear this over and over again, if kids play 00:19:47.589 --> 00:19:49.730 seasonal sports and they can play at a high level 00:19:49.730 --> 00:19:51.650 and be competitive, but they're doing different 00:19:51.650 --> 00:19:54.529 motions and even psychologically just exposed 00:19:54.529 --> 00:19:57.950 to different dynamics. That seems to forge, you 00:19:57.950 --> 00:20:00.490 know, a much higher overall physical resilience 00:20:00.490 --> 00:20:04.130 and avoid burnout of being driven into the ground 00:20:04.130 --> 00:20:07.410 on one sport. Yeah, I think there's a lot of 00:20:07.410 --> 00:20:09.109 conversation around that. We certainly heard 00:20:09.109 --> 00:20:11.849 that, you know, for my son growing up and he 00:20:11.849 --> 00:20:14.650 played basketball. He ran cross country and it 00:20:14.650 --> 00:20:16.470 did get to a point where he really wanted to 00:20:16.470 --> 00:20:20.190 focus on baseball. And OK, if that's the case, 00:20:20.230 --> 00:20:22.720 let's at least. have an annual physical training 00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:25.180 plan that acknowledges that you are doing this 00:20:25.180 --> 00:20:28.119 one sport that that identifies these specific 00:20:28.119 --> 00:20:31.319 movement movement patterns that may uh lead to 00:20:31.319 --> 00:20:33.200 overuse injuries if we're not balancing that 00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:35.200 out even in just the physical training side of 00:20:35.200 --> 00:20:39.200 it so it's something that i think has to be paid 00:20:39.200 --> 00:20:41.319 attention to as kids are growing up and then 00:20:41.319 --> 00:20:44.680 figuring out some way to either through encouraging 00:20:44.680 --> 00:20:49.210 multi -sport participation and or really uh intentional 00:20:49.210 --> 00:20:52.250 and intelligent physical training that that accounts 00:20:52.250 --> 00:20:57.190 for all that what about longevity as far as exercise 00:20:57.190 --> 00:21:00.710 what i found is again i mean the level of athleticism 00:21:00.710 --> 00:21:03.250 that is squeezed out of these children is impressive 00:21:03.250 --> 00:21:06.869 you know but if you look at europe When we played, 00:21:07.009 --> 00:21:09.130 we didn't play at that high level. There were 00:21:09.130 --> 00:21:11.150 obviously, especially football players, that 00:21:11.150 --> 00:21:13.089 was where the money was. If they were really 00:21:13.089 --> 00:21:17.529 gifted, they'd be often training teams for all 00:21:17.529 --> 00:21:19.509 the big clubs and that'd be a different group. 00:21:19.569 --> 00:21:21.730 But everyone else, we were playing other schools, 00:21:21.970 --> 00:21:24.609 but there was no intense strength and conditioning 00:21:24.609 --> 00:21:27.150 program or hours and hours and hours of skill 00:21:27.150 --> 00:21:29.809 training. And what I saw, and again, I'm talking 00:21:29.809 --> 00:21:31.869 about when I was young, it may have changed now, 00:21:32.029 --> 00:21:34.839 is that then you would get people. continuing 00:21:34.839 --> 00:21:36.859 to play sports they would play in pub leagues 00:21:36.859 --> 00:21:39.359 and local leagues and you know pickup games and 00:21:39.359 --> 00:21:41.880 all these kind of things so you had the e40 50 00:21:41.880 --> 00:21:45.180 year old men and women still very active what 00:21:45.180 --> 00:21:47.200 i've seen here is you have this high level of 00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:50.400 performance and then a steep drop off where you 00:21:50.400 --> 00:21:52.500 know if anything you're going to a gym rather 00:21:52.500 --> 00:21:54.460 than just continuing to play these games that 00:21:54.460 --> 00:21:56.700 you used to love when you were a kid so what's 00:21:56.700 --> 00:21:58.779 what's your observation of the kind of contrast 00:21:58.779 --> 00:22:01.940 between how we're doing here and you know is 00:22:01.940 --> 00:22:05.190 there a better way of doing it Well, even observation 00:22:05.190 --> 00:22:08.069 and personal experience, I remember going all 00:22:08.069 --> 00:22:11.430 through high school. I was so committed to my 00:22:11.430 --> 00:22:13.670 high school sports, and I was a wrestler in high 00:22:13.670 --> 00:22:15.670 school, and I played football, and literally 00:22:15.670 --> 00:22:18.049 my whole life revolved around those two things 00:22:18.049 --> 00:22:20.170 all year. I was either training for wrestling 00:22:20.170 --> 00:22:23.049 or training for football, and those were the 00:22:23.049 --> 00:22:25.130 most important things. I couldn't imagine anything 00:22:25.130 --> 00:22:27.609 ever being more important than wrestling and 00:22:27.609 --> 00:22:30.089 football in my entire life. Well, pretty soon, 00:22:30.170 --> 00:22:32.329 you know, high school's over. And for someone 00:22:32.329 --> 00:22:36.049 like me that just has no real talent to take 00:22:36.049 --> 00:22:38.549 it any further, that's the end of it. And then 00:22:38.549 --> 00:22:42.470 you look around. So I went to college and ended 00:22:42.470 --> 00:22:44.809 up even studying exercise science. And yeah, 00:22:44.869 --> 00:22:46.910 there were some intramural sports. I did a little 00:22:46.910 --> 00:22:49.750 bit of flag football. But there's not a lot of 00:22:49.750 --> 00:22:53.369 structure in our American society to participate 00:22:53.369 --> 00:22:55.690 in team sports. If you look at what is available 00:22:55.690 --> 00:22:58.809 and you look at the popularity of CrossFit, that's 00:22:58.809 --> 00:23:01.369 probably a big reason. CrossFit became so popular 00:23:01.369 --> 00:23:04.930 is because it did create an avenue for adults 00:23:04.930 --> 00:23:07.849 to go into, although not a team sport, certainly 00:23:07.849 --> 00:23:12.029 a community around fitness. You know, there's 00:23:12.029 --> 00:23:15.369 softball leagues, I guess. But even even flag 00:23:15.369 --> 00:23:18.450 football, like I said, in college, readily accessible, 00:23:18.690 --> 00:23:21.880 but not that as an adult elsewhere and the only 00:23:21.880 --> 00:23:24.900 thing i can kind of relate to now uh you see 00:23:24.900 --> 00:23:27.680 pickleball really becoming uh very popular very 00:23:27.680 --> 00:23:29.980 popular certainly in our community and you can 00:23:29.980 --> 00:23:33.720 find these up all these uh courts that are available 00:23:33.720 --> 00:23:37.220 they're public there's team uh there's tournaments 00:23:37.220 --> 00:23:41.319 so so i think that's half the issue is that for 00:23:41.319 --> 00:23:43.880 one reason or another we just haven't provided 00:23:43.880 --> 00:23:47.809 the structure for folks to participate in those 00:23:47.809 --> 00:23:49.769 activities as an adult in the United States. 00:23:50.009 --> 00:23:52.210 And then kind of coming back to the fire service 00:23:52.210 --> 00:23:54.950 side, we just had this conversation at the kitchen 00:23:54.950 --> 00:23:58.390 table with one of our new firefighters. So, you 00:23:58.390 --> 00:24:01.130 know, I was in college studying exercise science. 00:24:01.250 --> 00:24:03.829 I, as a young person, dreamed of being a professional 00:24:03.829 --> 00:24:07.250 athlete, and those dreams were very quickly squashed 00:24:07.250 --> 00:24:10.869 by reality. But the more I was studying exercise 00:24:10.869 --> 00:24:13.470 science and learning about opportunities I might 00:24:13.470 --> 00:24:16.730 have as a firefighter, that... gap was bridged 00:24:16.730 --> 00:24:19.009 real quickly and I immediately experienced it 00:24:19.009 --> 00:24:21.490 as soon as I joined the volunteer fire department 00:24:21.490 --> 00:24:24.410 in a Recruit Academy setting that oh wait a second 00:24:24.410 --> 00:24:28.230 this is a physical activity and I'm part of a 00:24:28.230 --> 00:24:31.309 team and I'm training to to learn a skill and 00:24:31.309 --> 00:24:35.230 so immediately as a 22 year old I immediately 00:24:35.230 --> 00:24:40.049 found something that provided this whole you 00:24:40.049 --> 00:24:42.569 know source of challenges and and things that 00:24:42.569 --> 00:24:44.910 I appreciated so much about organized sports 00:24:44.910 --> 00:24:48.009 growing up and now i built a whole career around 00:24:48.009 --> 00:24:50.710 it and i was talking with uh you know a young 00:24:50.710 --> 00:24:53.230 man at work he's i think now he's 22 all these 00:24:53.230 --> 00:24:55.970 years later he was a cross -country athlete in 00:24:55.970 --> 00:24:59.190 college he had just a six -month break from his 00:24:59.190 --> 00:25:01.490 call the structure of his college sports and 00:25:01.490 --> 00:25:04.150 he went right into recruit academy as a professional 00:25:04.150 --> 00:25:06.849 firefighter and he was talking with me about 00:25:06.849 --> 00:25:11.910 how he appreciated that like he loved his participation 00:25:11.910 --> 00:25:14.950 in sports. He loved the structure of it. And 00:25:14.950 --> 00:25:17.650 now he's got this wonderful career where literally 00:25:17.650 --> 00:25:20.690 only six months between being a high -level college 00:25:20.690 --> 00:25:23.329 athlete and now being a professional firefighter. 00:25:23.970 --> 00:25:25.809 You just made me think about something I was 00:25:25.809 --> 00:25:28.450 trying to articulate earlier, not in this conversation, 00:25:28.529 --> 00:25:30.930 but just in general. But you have the term tactical 00:25:30.930 --> 00:25:33.869 athlete, and I was going to talk about... one 00:25:33.869 --> 00:25:37.130 of the barriers to continuing sport is this whole, 00:25:37.250 --> 00:25:39.829 if you're not first, you're last mentality. You 00:25:39.829 --> 00:25:42.710 have to win. And that's the difference, I think, 00:25:42.730 --> 00:25:46.049 between that mentality and pickleball and everything 00:25:46.049 --> 00:25:47.809 else now. It's like, oh, it's just fun to play 00:25:47.809 --> 00:25:49.990 it. I don't have to win because no one knows 00:25:49.990 --> 00:25:51.789 who the pickleball world champion is anyway. 00:25:51.869 --> 00:25:53.789 So you didn't have that bar to be held up to. 00:25:54.470 --> 00:25:57.710 But if you compare it to the tactical athlete, 00:25:57.829 --> 00:26:01.480 the firefighter, we're not winning. We're taught 00:26:01.480 --> 00:26:03.839 participate. No one's winning the ladder throwing 00:26:03.839 --> 00:26:06.799 contest or the cross lay pulling contest. We're 00:26:06.799 --> 00:26:10.160 just doing it. But the win is that you potentially 00:26:10.160 --> 00:26:12.859 could save a life. But it is about participation. 00:26:12.980 --> 00:26:15.779 It is about the training journey, because even 00:26:15.779 --> 00:26:18.460 if you make a grab and a fire, that's great. 00:26:18.519 --> 00:26:20.000 Clean your gear because we've got to go and do 00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:22.259 another call. You know what I mean? So it's an 00:26:22.259 --> 00:26:25.240 interesting parallel. We kind of adore these 00:26:25.240 --> 00:26:27.759 world champions. But actually, if we look at 00:26:27.759 --> 00:26:31.339 what we do. you're not chasing a win you're chasing 00:26:31.339 --> 00:26:34.200 you know being ready for someone's worst day 00:26:34.200 --> 00:26:37.519 well i think that's where we get into trouble 00:26:37.519 --> 00:26:40.279 a little bit i don't think we do a great job 00:26:40.279 --> 00:26:44.160 as a fire service in attaching a framework to 00:26:44.160 --> 00:26:47.720 all of that and so you know this one of the things 00:26:47.720 --> 00:26:51.079 that i've as i reflect on how i approach things 00:26:51.079 --> 00:26:54.680 again just based on influence that i've had by 00:26:54.680 --> 00:26:57.799 really great mentors or the knowledge i had from 00:26:57.799 --> 00:26:59.700 my college education whatever the case may be 00:26:59.700 --> 00:27:02.420 but i've kind of gravitated toward this idea 00:27:02.420 --> 00:27:05.119 of these three pillars of firefighter peak performance 00:27:05.119 --> 00:27:08.599 one is mindset one is lifestyle the other is 00:27:08.599 --> 00:27:10.900 the physical training side of it and it's no 00:27:10.900 --> 00:27:13.759 different than what athletes actually have given 00:27:13.759 --> 00:27:16.759 to them so when i was in college i worked in 00:27:16.759 --> 00:27:18.720 the equipment room for the football team and 00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:22.599 i was around the football players pretty much 00:27:22.599 --> 00:27:25.759 every day. And everything, the framework for 00:27:25.759 --> 00:27:28.539 that, the structure was given to them. So they 00:27:28.539 --> 00:27:32.200 had counselors, they had tutors, they had nutritionists, 00:27:32.200 --> 00:27:34.039 they had athletic trainers, they had physical 00:27:34.039 --> 00:27:35.859 therapists, they had strength and conditioning 00:27:35.859 --> 00:27:39.619 coaches, like literally everything around those 00:27:39.619 --> 00:27:42.119 three pillars that all these years later, I'm 00:27:42.119 --> 00:27:44.859 trying to package that and frame it in a way 00:27:44.859 --> 00:27:47.000 that I might be able to communicate to folks 00:27:47.000 --> 00:27:50.000 that would maybe be interested in that. But athletes 00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:53.809 get that. Athletes have that from a very young 00:27:53.809 --> 00:27:57.509 age all the way throughout their sporting careers. 00:27:57.789 --> 00:28:00.930 And although, in my opinion, the parallels to 00:28:00.930 --> 00:28:04.609 firefighting in terms of tactical athlete versus 00:28:04.609 --> 00:28:08.210 any other sport athlete are very clear, the structure 00:28:08.210 --> 00:28:11.369 and the framework and the support is completely 00:28:11.369 --> 00:28:16.529 different. Absolutely. so backwards when you 00:28:16.529 --> 00:28:18.349 look at the people that are actually saving lives 00:28:18.349 --> 00:28:20.910 and the amount of rest and recovery they get. 00:28:21.069 --> 00:28:23.890 And even as we'll get into, the type of strength 00:28:23.890 --> 00:28:27.109 and conditioning advice and information that 00:28:27.109 --> 00:28:30.630 they're given as far as the disconnect versus 00:28:30.630 --> 00:28:32.650 the specialty training that a sports person might 00:28:32.650 --> 00:28:36.910 get, the psychology, the nutrition, all the things. 00:28:37.390 --> 00:28:41.549 When I speak to the SEALs and the SAS and the 00:28:41.549 --> 00:28:44.380 Marine Recon guys and all these other elite military 00:28:44.380 --> 00:28:48.000 performers they have those too and then you have 00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:50.240 police and fire and ems and it's like well just 00:28:50.240 --> 00:28:52.099 go out there and run the course you'll be fine 00:28:52.099 --> 00:28:54.700 just don't be fat and don't die it's just such 00:28:54.700 --> 00:28:58.160 a chasm between where we are and where we need 00:28:58.160 --> 00:29:01.180 to be as far as actual forging performance through 00:29:01.180 --> 00:29:04.940 strength and conditioning yeah yeah and you know 00:29:04.940 --> 00:29:07.880 we're making some progress and you look at the 00:29:07.880 --> 00:29:11.700 iff ifc wellness fitness unit wellness fitness 00:29:11.700 --> 00:29:14.170 initiative The framework for that looks great, 00:29:14.250 --> 00:29:16.450 like it addresses all of those issues from the 00:29:16.450 --> 00:29:19.309 mental health side to the physical training side 00:29:19.309 --> 00:29:22.710 to the even the rehab side of it. It captures 00:29:22.710 --> 00:29:24.690 all that. But we're really struggling, struggling 00:29:24.690 --> 00:29:27.710 as a fire service to implement it. And of course, 00:29:27.710 --> 00:29:31.789 it comes back to budgets and costs and and how 00:29:31.789 --> 00:29:33.970 agencies perceive the value of something like 00:29:33.970 --> 00:29:37.049 that. And it's interesting when you imagine that. 00:29:37.559 --> 00:29:39.200 We never hesitate to spend a million dollars 00:29:39.200 --> 00:29:41.359 on a fire apparatus. We'll spend hundreds of 00:29:41.359 --> 00:29:43.180 thousands of dollars to maintain that apparatus 00:29:43.180 --> 00:29:45.940 over a period of years. But for some reason, 00:29:45.980 --> 00:29:48.779 we just can't provide that same level of support 00:29:48.779 --> 00:29:51.380 to the people that actually operate that apparatus. 00:29:51.559 --> 00:29:54.460 So, yeah, it's it's a challenge. I am encouraged 00:29:54.460 --> 00:29:57.220 by some of the progress that we're seeing, but 00:29:57.220 --> 00:29:59.619 we've still got a long ways to go as a fire service 00:29:59.619 --> 00:30:02.279 for sure. What kind of strength and conditioning 00:30:02.279 --> 00:30:04.839 were you doing up to the point of entering the 00:30:04.839 --> 00:30:07.799 fire service? And then what has been the metamorphosis 00:30:07.799 --> 00:30:11.619 of your own training since then? Well, it's funny 00:30:11.619 --> 00:30:17.059 you ask that. So the way I kind of package or 00:30:17.059 --> 00:30:20.180 communicate about different approaches to... 00:30:20.539 --> 00:30:22.319 strength conditioning and firefighter fitness 00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:25.200 is really a mirror of my own experience on a 00:30:25.200 --> 00:30:28.359 timeline so again i grew up in the 80s early 00:30:28.359 --> 00:30:31.279 90s my dad introduced me to kind of that what 00:30:31.279 --> 00:30:34.339 i would call conventional strength training sets 00:30:34.339 --> 00:30:36.279 and reps you're training your chest and your 00:30:36.279 --> 00:30:39.220 back and your buys and and even all my coaches 00:30:39.220 --> 00:30:42.160 as a young person it was all presented that way 00:30:42.440 --> 00:30:44.319 you know hey today we're doing back and bias 00:30:44.319 --> 00:30:46.660 tomorrow we're doing legs and that's that was 00:30:46.660 --> 00:30:49.319 kind of the conventional approach the the conditioning 00:30:49.319 --> 00:30:51.700 side of it was really steady state cardio it 00:30:51.700 --> 00:30:54.680 wasn't there wasn't any specific reference to 00:30:54.680 --> 00:30:57.480 any kind of energy system development or certainly 00:30:57.480 --> 00:31:00.740 not framed that way and really any discussion 00:31:00.740 --> 00:31:04.140 about mobility flexibility you know the warm 00:31:04.140 --> 00:31:07.319 -up was well do 10 reps just go lighter that 00:31:07.319 --> 00:31:09.759 was the only warm -up and the cool down was well 00:31:09.759 --> 00:31:13.660 go get a drink of water so my my whole my early 00:31:13.660 --> 00:31:17.759 20s even into my young 30s was that conventional 00:31:17.759 --> 00:31:21.359 approach that that weight room fitness and uh 00:31:21.359 --> 00:31:23.960 i just so happened when i was at washington state 00:31:23.960 --> 00:31:25.359 university i mentioned i worked with a football 00:31:25.359 --> 00:31:28.299 team well mark verstegen just happened to be 00:31:28.299 --> 00:31:30.500 a strength coach there and mark verstegen went 00:31:30.500 --> 00:31:33.880 on to uh he was the founder i believe of athletes 00:31:33.880 --> 00:31:37.220 performance which is now exos and he wrote a 00:31:37.220 --> 00:31:39.220 book in the year 2000 called core performance 00:31:39.220 --> 00:31:43.539 and Looking back on that, I believe that Mark 00:31:43.539 --> 00:31:45.579 Verstegen was really one of the front runners 00:31:45.579 --> 00:31:50.019 in what we call functional fitness. There's sometimes 00:31:50.019 --> 00:31:52.380 a negative connotation around that, but I mean 00:31:52.380 --> 00:31:56.220 really intentional functional fitness. His programming 00:31:56.220 --> 00:31:58.579 was now more about movement patterns and multi 00:31:58.579 --> 00:32:01.779 -plane movement versus muscle groups. His energy 00:32:01.779 --> 00:32:03.980 system development was very much targeted to 00:32:03.980 --> 00:32:08.700 specific energy systems, whether it was... aerobic 00:32:08.700 --> 00:32:11.819 versus anaerobic. And so I picked up his book 00:32:11.819 --> 00:32:14.920 and of course I knew Mark. So I adopted that 00:32:14.920 --> 00:32:17.960 and holy smoke, my body felt different. I had 00:32:17.960 --> 00:32:20.740 less pain in my body. I share a story where I 00:32:20.740 --> 00:32:22.680 had a couple of kids I was carrying to a door 00:32:22.680 --> 00:32:25.759 and I slipped on some ice and my body reacted 00:32:25.759 --> 00:32:28.240 just so suddenly to catch myself. I felt like 00:32:28.240 --> 00:32:30.559 Spider -Man, but I had this pillar strength, 00:32:30.700 --> 00:32:32.779 as he calls it, and this core strength that I 00:32:32.779 --> 00:32:35.099 experienced from training differently than I 00:32:35.099 --> 00:32:38.579 had. as a younger person. And then fast forward 00:32:38.579 --> 00:32:41.759 to this whole idea of tactical fitness. My mentor 00:32:41.759 --> 00:32:44.460 in that realm is a guy by the name of Scott Sonnen. 00:32:44.680 --> 00:32:46.819 He happened to live in Bellingham, Washington. 00:32:47.759 --> 00:32:50.240 I look to him again as the godfather of tactical 00:32:50.240 --> 00:32:52.740 fitness. He'd been talking about this for by 00:32:52.740 --> 00:32:55.740 now 30 years plus. He came into the fire station 00:32:55.740 --> 00:32:58.519 and he said, hey, the police have challenged 00:32:58.519 --> 00:33:01.400 you all to a tactical fitness competition. Are 00:33:01.400 --> 00:33:03.680 you up to the challenge? And well, I didn't know 00:33:03.680 --> 00:33:06.140 who he was. I didn't know what. a tactical fitness 00:33:06.140 --> 00:33:08.779 competition was but if the cops challenge us 00:33:08.779 --> 00:33:11.720 we're all in and come to find out he went over 00:33:11.720 --> 00:33:13.519 to the police department he said hey the the 00:33:13.519 --> 00:33:15.079 firefighters challenged you to this tactical 00:33:15.079 --> 00:33:17.539 fitness and so so this whole thing got dusted 00:33:17.539 --> 00:33:20.400 up and it was such a popular event that the firefighters 00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:22.960 had to have a competition and the police had 00:33:22.960 --> 00:33:25.019 to have a competition just to see internally 00:33:25.019 --> 00:33:27.640 who was actually going to go to the the main 00:33:27.640 --> 00:33:29.519 competition because there's only I think five 00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:32.259 positions or five spots. And that just led to 00:33:32.259 --> 00:33:34.059 a wonderful mentorship. He took us under his 00:33:34.059 --> 00:33:36.140 wing, a couple of us that were coaches in the 00:33:36.140 --> 00:33:38.839 department and taught us all about the difference 00:33:38.839 --> 00:33:42.339 between traditional fitness and tactical fitness 00:33:42.339 --> 00:33:45.440 relating to our central nervous system and the 00:33:45.440 --> 00:33:47.779 stress of firefighting, the stress of sleep deprivation 00:33:47.779 --> 00:33:51.400 and how you might massage or create a more holistic 00:33:51.400 --> 00:33:53.240 approach to your training while also training 00:33:53.240 --> 00:33:56.559 at a high intensity. So that's my trajectory 00:33:56.559 --> 00:33:59.980 on a timeline is. conventional fitness, functional 00:33:59.980 --> 00:34:02.200 fitness, and tactical fitness. And now I've really 00:34:02.200 --> 00:34:06.160 come to believe as a coach that each of those 00:34:06.160 --> 00:34:09.559 has a place when they're programmed with intention. 00:34:09.960 --> 00:34:13.099 And it's, you know, you can look at any demographic 00:34:13.099 --> 00:34:16.599 and kind of have some general training advice 00:34:16.599 --> 00:34:19.480 for them, but really it becomes, comes down to 00:34:19.480 --> 00:34:21.800 what is the individual need in the context of 00:34:21.800 --> 00:34:26.539 that. And so, anywho, just trying to... articulate 00:34:26.539 --> 00:34:28.860 to any individual or group that there's a lot 00:34:28.860 --> 00:34:30.840 of different ways to approach this stuff as long 00:34:30.840 --> 00:34:33.219 as we're being intentional and we know why we're 00:34:33.219 --> 00:34:36.739 doing it and what we're seeking to achieve. I 00:34:36.739 --> 00:34:39.239 mentioned that the gym I train at, it's not specifically 00:34:39.239 --> 00:34:41.500 CrossFit now, even though our coach is a freaking 00:34:41.500 --> 00:34:43.500 CrossFit phenom. I think he won a lot of the 00:34:43.500 --> 00:34:47.539 younger titles when he was doing it then. And 00:34:47.539 --> 00:34:50.019 he just, I forget the name of the event. It was 00:34:50.019 --> 00:34:52.780 somewhere in Daytona, but he won at the elite 00:34:52.780 --> 00:34:55.690 level all six events. Which is insane because 00:34:55.690 --> 00:34:57.730 we all know there's more strength ones and more 00:34:57.730 --> 00:34:59.949 cardio ones. And yeah, he smashed them all. So 00:34:59.949 --> 00:35:03.389 he is a freaking phenom. But the main programming 00:35:03.389 --> 00:35:06.550 has gone to Wolf Brigade. So more heavy, heavy 00:35:06.550 --> 00:35:10.030 kettlebell work, maces, sandbags, those kind 00:35:10.030 --> 00:35:13.090 of things. And so I've seen the evolution of 00:35:13.090 --> 00:35:15.369 even the use of implements now versus the old 00:35:15.369 --> 00:35:17.909 machines of the 80s. So same kind of question. 00:35:18.090 --> 00:35:20.309 What have you seen as far as the evolution of 00:35:20.309 --> 00:35:23.760 tools that you use within this programming? Yeah, 00:35:23.760 --> 00:35:26.340 and I think, you know, you look at, I call them 00:35:26.340 --> 00:35:30.079 simple tools, and kettlebells, steel clubs, med 00:35:30.079 --> 00:35:34.059 balls, sandbags, TRX, parallette bars, they really 00:35:34.059 --> 00:35:36.579 are simple tools. And what's great about them, 00:35:36.599 --> 00:35:39.400 especially if we look at an application of firefighting, 00:35:39.400 --> 00:35:41.699 for example, so, you know, as firefighters, we 00:35:41.699 --> 00:35:45.219 know what tasks will be asked of us, hose deployment. 00:35:45.920 --> 00:35:48.280 raising ground ladders, forcing doors, vehicle 00:35:48.280 --> 00:35:50.820 extrication. If you take a step back and look 00:35:50.820 --> 00:35:54.380 at the movement patterns that are required to 00:35:54.380 --> 00:35:57.980 execute any particular task, when you look at 00:35:57.980 --> 00:36:01.139 how those movement patterns are loaded on the 00:36:01.139 --> 00:36:04.519 fire ground or on the drill ground, we can use 00:36:04.519 --> 00:36:08.409 these implements to better mimic those. to better 00:36:08.409 --> 00:36:11.849 prepare the body for express expressible strength 00:36:11.849 --> 00:36:14.510 through a full range of motion in ways that you 00:36:14.510 --> 00:36:17.090 cannot achieve with conventional fitness equipment 00:36:17.090 --> 00:36:20.369 and that's what i think is just so so great about 00:36:20.369 --> 00:36:23.210 the influence that crossfit has had in other 00:36:23.210 --> 00:36:26.070 other training modalities where we're introducing 00:36:26.070 --> 00:36:29.570 a whole other way to move really uh and loading 00:36:29.570 --> 00:36:31.309 these movements in a way that we've just never 00:36:31.309 --> 00:36:33.650 been able to do before or we weren't aware of 00:36:33.650 --> 00:36:38.659 that before a couple of uh Carry -overs I've 00:36:38.659 --> 00:36:41.679 seen, I coach a class every Monday, just a free 00:36:41.679 --> 00:36:43.460 class for tactical athletes. And one of them 00:36:43.460 --> 00:36:45.780 is, or a few of the movements are from a strong 00:36:45.780 --> 00:36:50.480 fit, Julian Pannot. And one is a loaded sled 00:36:50.480 --> 00:36:53.099 with a long rope and you stand there anchored 00:36:53.099 --> 00:36:54.800 and you pull the rope, the sled towards you. 00:36:55.139 --> 00:36:58.539 The kind of grip endurance that you get from 00:36:58.539 --> 00:37:01.820 that has carried over to my jujitsu. And then 00:37:01.820 --> 00:37:06.750 the, oh my goodness, Turkish getup. loading a 00:37:06.750 --> 00:37:10.630 heavy Turkish get up now palming someone off 00:37:10.630 --> 00:37:13.690 side control while they just look helpless and 00:37:13.690 --> 00:37:16.070 then fall over backwards it's amazing so when 00:37:16.070 --> 00:37:18.130 you actually use these movements and you see 00:37:18.130 --> 00:37:21.389 that real world application it is it's it's incredible 00:37:21.389 --> 00:37:24.190 because you know I did barbell workouts forever 00:37:24.190 --> 00:37:26.230 and didn't see those kind of results and then 00:37:26.230 --> 00:37:28.110 you find these exercises that have this true 00:37:28.110 --> 00:37:31.030 carryover and it's a complete game changer then 00:37:31.030 --> 00:37:34.059 yeah yeah same you know imagine you're standing 00:37:34.059 --> 00:37:36.019 at the front door and you've got uh inches three 00:37:36.019 --> 00:37:38.579 -quarter hose that you're having to pull hand 00:37:38.579 --> 00:37:42.099 over hand as your crew is going up to the second 00:37:42.099 --> 00:37:45.199 floor that requires that a similar grip strength 00:37:45.199 --> 00:37:47.920 as you're mentioning or if you've got a hotel 00:37:47.920 --> 00:37:50.860 pack or a hose bundle that you've got to hike 00:37:50.860 --> 00:37:53.900 with or walk up a flight of stairs you know you 00:37:53.900 --> 00:37:55.820 can load your shoulder with a sandbag and do 00:37:55.820 --> 00:37:58.699 walking lunges you can and especially and what 00:37:58.699 --> 00:38:01.730 i really like to coach uh with tactical athletes 00:38:01.730 --> 00:38:04.550 is when you're doing your workout in the gym 00:38:04.550 --> 00:38:07.829 really imagine the application uh on the job 00:38:07.829 --> 00:38:11.829 so if you're hitting that you know moderate intensity 00:38:11.829 --> 00:38:14.369 or high intensity training in the gym your your 00:38:14.369 --> 00:38:16.369 body feels challenged your mind feels challenged 00:38:16.369 --> 00:38:18.510 and and you're actually imagining what it's going 00:38:18.510 --> 00:38:21.250 to feel like to be in that same situation uh 00:38:21.250 --> 00:38:23.969 as a firefighter and i've done this personally 00:38:23.969 --> 00:38:26.989 and i've observed it in others you really you 00:38:26.989 --> 00:38:30.449 it's kind of to tap into the to that growth and 00:38:30.449 --> 00:38:33.469 that adaptation and to feel that level of fitness 00:38:33.469 --> 00:38:36.889 in your job or or being applied to your job it's 00:38:36.889 --> 00:38:41.090 just like oh man okay i i'm i'm in it i'm i'm 00:38:41.090 --> 00:38:44.110 all in on this so it's pretty cool to see to 00:38:44.110 --> 00:38:45.590 see the buy -in on the front end but to see the 00:38:45.590 --> 00:38:48.179 application of it on the back end What is your 00:38:48.179 --> 00:38:52.599 philosophy of redline workouts? When I did CrossFit, 00:38:52.739 --> 00:38:55.579 obviously there was more higher intensity, and 00:38:55.579 --> 00:38:57.019 that's what I like about the programming now. 00:38:57.219 --> 00:38:59.500 The intensity has dropped down a little bit, 00:38:59.519 --> 00:39:02.159 and then there will be some higher ones. And 00:39:02.159 --> 00:39:05.079 then even with my class, if we push all the sleds 00:39:05.079 --> 00:39:07.239 and things closer together as far as rest periods, 00:39:07.320 --> 00:39:11.400 it can be an absolute lung burner as well. But 00:39:11.400 --> 00:39:15.889 when I reflect back, I like the fact that If 00:39:15.889 --> 00:39:18.570 I had a worst case scenario fire, the last time 00:39:18.570 --> 00:39:22.289 I was in the pain cave was three, five, seven 00:39:22.289 --> 00:39:26.130 days prior, not the academy. But at the same 00:39:26.130 --> 00:39:28.789 time, as we touched on, sleep deprivation, shift 00:39:28.789 --> 00:39:31.989 work, that can also be a bad time to do a red 00:39:31.989 --> 00:39:33.989 line workout when you're coming off a bad shift. 00:39:34.190 --> 00:39:38.650 So what is your kind of philosophy on high exertion 00:39:38.650 --> 00:39:41.409 workouts? And then when would you advise people 00:39:41.409 --> 00:39:44.389 to plan those in a traditional firefighter work 00:39:44.389 --> 00:39:49.400 week? Yeah, just a lot to discuss around that. 00:39:49.480 --> 00:39:53.219 And it starts with Dave Dodson, who wrote a book 00:39:53.219 --> 00:39:55.840 called Fire Department Incident Safety Officer. 00:39:56.500 --> 00:39:59.079 Great book for any firefighter officer or chief 00:39:59.079 --> 00:40:01.940 officer, just in the way that he presents actionable 00:40:01.940 --> 00:40:05.599 tools to stay safe as a firefighter. But one 00:40:05.599 --> 00:40:08.659 of the points he makes is. arbitrary aggressiveness 00:40:08.659 --> 00:40:11.559 versus intellectual aggressiveness and his whole 00:40:11.559 --> 00:40:14.039 point is let's just not go kick in the front 00:40:14.039 --> 00:40:16.699 door and pound on our chests and slay the dragon 00:40:16.699 --> 00:40:19.079 let's do a good size up let's let's have the 00:40:19.079 --> 00:40:21.340 level of skill that we can execute execute on 00:40:21.340 --> 00:40:24.380 that quickly and in a way that is informed and 00:40:24.380 --> 00:40:26.880 intelligent it doesn't cost us any time but it 00:40:26.880 --> 00:40:29.739 helps to keep us safe and ultimately has a better 00:40:29.739 --> 00:40:32.699 impact on the end result so if we apply that 00:40:32.699 --> 00:40:36.070 same idea to our physical training arbitrary 00:40:36.070 --> 00:40:39.010 physical and train physical training versus intentional 00:40:39.010 --> 00:40:41.989 physical training and that that starts with how 00:40:41.989 --> 00:40:45.829 we program so as you mentioned i'm i'm on a our 00:40:45.829 --> 00:40:48.469 department one works one on two off one on four 00:40:48.469 --> 00:40:51.730 off and so all of my physical training whether 00:40:51.730 --> 00:40:54.949 it's low intensity moderate or high intensity 00:40:54.949 --> 00:40:58.789 waves intentionally around my shift schedule 00:40:58.789 --> 00:41:01.230 and we can go deeper into that if you want in 00:41:01.230 --> 00:41:04.530 a bit here and then in terms of the high intensity 00:41:05.309 --> 00:41:07.130 I feel like it's really important that we do 00:41:07.130 --> 00:41:10.849 that periodically. But again, it's very intentional 00:41:10.849 --> 00:41:13.630 within a progressive training program. And then 00:41:13.630 --> 00:41:17.190 I love to use it to coach intentional training 00:41:17.190 --> 00:41:20.610 metrics, right? So we teach our athletes to really 00:41:20.610 --> 00:41:23.090 pay attention to their movement quality, to pay 00:41:23.090 --> 00:41:25.449 attention to their intensity, to pay attention 00:41:25.449 --> 00:41:28.409 to any discomfort they may feel, to pay attention 00:41:28.409 --> 00:41:31.670 to their ability to focus, and to pay attention 00:41:31.670 --> 00:41:35.360 to their dexterity. those those workouts that 00:41:35.360 --> 00:41:37.260 you just mentioned where they're lung burners 00:41:37.260 --> 00:41:39.480 or your muscles are burning or you're challenging 00:41:39.480 --> 00:41:43.239 yourself at high intensity you're also cognitively 00:41:43.239 --> 00:41:44.780 paying very close attention because you're going 00:41:44.780 --> 00:41:47.539 to score it in the end you're not sacrificing 00:41:47.539 --> 00:41:49.980 movement quality for the workout you're being 00:41:49.980 --> 00:41:52.639 very mindful of your intensity and you're not 00:41:52.639 --> 00:41:56.099 exceeding the intensity you plan for for that 00:41:56.099 --> 00:41:58.960 particular day any discomfort almost like a check 00:41:58.960 --> 00:42:01.880 engine light if that discomfort gets to be a 00:42:01.880 --> 00:42:04.570 two or a three that light comes on and you either 00:42:04.570 --> 00:42:07.429 make a change or you stop and so you're not you're 00:42:07.429 --> 00:42:09.929 not going to power through pain and then when 00:42:09.929 --> 00:42:14.590 you think of uh kind of high intensity high stress 00:42:14.590 --> 00:42:17.929 uh fight or flight two of the things we lose 00:42:17.929 --> 00:42:20.050 pretty quickly are cognitive function and fine 00:42:20.050 --> 00:42:22.690 motor skills so your body doesn't know if you're 00:42:22.690 --> 00:42:24.530 in a high intensity workout or if you're in a 00:42:24.530 --> 00:42:27.130 crazy situation on the fire ground if you're 00:42:27.130 --> 00:42:29.829 paying very close attention to how your body's 00:42:29.829 --> 00:42:31.849 responding to that intensity or that stress in 00:42:31.849 --> 00:42:34.070 the gym and you're thinking about your cognitive 00:42:34.070 --> 00:42:36.250 function hey what rep am i on or what round am 00:42:36.250 --> 00:42:39.250 i in or your fine motor skills you're you're 00:42:39.250 --> 00:42:41.969 writing down your reps in between your you know 00:42:41.969 --> 00:42:44.110 you could even do some knot tying exercises in 00:42:44.110 --> 00:42:46.070 between bouts of high intensity if you really 00:42:46.070 --> 00:42:49.590 want to go deeper into that but but you know 00:42:49.590 --> 00:42:52.110 it's all very intentional the the programming 00:42:52.110 --> 00:42:54.829 around high intensity is intentional and you're 00:42:54.829 --> 00:42:56.730 recognizing that high intensity training is a 00:42:56.730 --> 00:43:00.309 tool to to prepare you for the stress of firefighting 00:43:00.309 --> 00:43:04.090 in a very intentional way without in a in a mindless 00:43:04.090 --> 00:43:07.050 way just trying to kick your own ass for no objective 00:43:07.050 --> 00:43:12.590 gain that's what i found with observing the world 00:43:12.590 --> 00:43:15.110 of crossfit not crossfit the programming not 00:43:15.110 --> 00:43:17.710 the elite people that were ultimately teaching 00:43:17.710 --> 00:43:21.989 us how to do it at the beginning but the the 00:43:21.989 --> 00:43:25.130 lack of understanding of how long the preparation 00:43:25.130 --> 00:43:27.650 took for the high level CrossFit athletes versus 00:43:27.650 --> 00:43:29.969 the weekend warrior that wanted to start butterfly 00:43:29.969 --> 00:43:33.570 pull -ups right off the get -go. And you did 00:43:33.570 --> 00:43:36.710 see that. You saw, myself included, just terrible 00:43:36.710 --> 00:43:40.230 form when it came to snatches and complex movements 00:43:40.230 --> 00:43:43.389 that we just hadn't put the time in or the mobility 00:43:43.389 --> 00:43:45.750 work in or the accessory work in to really be 00:43:45.750 --> 00:43:48.840 able to move in that way. And so I agree with 00:43:48.840 --> 00:43:50.500 you a hundred percent. Like that's how people 00:43:50.500 --> 00:43:52.260 were getting hurt. It wasn't CrossFit. It was 00:43:52.260 --> 00:43:54.900 us, you know, either poorly coaching and or not 00:43:54.900 --> 00:43:56.860 having the humility as an athlete to take some 00:43:56.860 --> 00:44:00.139 weight off, but getting that intensity. And this 00:44:00.139 --> 00:44:02.820 is what I love about the strong man stuff. You 00:44:02.820 --> 00:44:06.199 can push high intensity without really worrying 00:44:06.199 --> 00:44:08.579 about form with just say, push that sled from 00:44:08.579 --> 00:44:10.739 here to here. Now pick up, pick up the sandbag 00:44:10.739 --> 00:44:12.539 and bring it back. Now pick up the rope and drag 00:44:12.539 --> 00:44:15.300 the sled back. You know what I mean? by reducing 00:44:15.300 --> 00:44:19.019 the complexity of the exercise, you were safely 00:44:19.019 --> 00:44:22.179 able to increase intensity. And like you said, 00:44:22.239 --> 00:44:26.019 then you have the capacity then to think about 00:44:26.019 --> 00:44:27.619 the things that you need to think about because 00:44:27.619 --> 00:44:30.139 you're not thinking about your shitty form in 00:44:30.139 --> 00:44:32.239 your, you know, three foot wide stance trying 00:44:32.239 --> 00:44:35.039 to get that snatch over your head. Yeah, yeah. 00:44:35.260 --> 00:44:37.039 No, that's what I love about the intentional 00:44:37.039 --> 00:44:39.579 approach also is if you're, you know, I've had 00:44:39.579 --> 00:44:41.780 a lot of... athletes ask like well where's the 00:44:41.780 --> 00:44:44.119 follow -along video right i kind of like peloton 00:44:44.119 --> 00:44:46.599 where i can turn my brain off and just you know 00:44:46.599 --> 00:44:49.079 work hard like well you know that's okay for 00:44:49.079 --> 00:44:50.980 general population but for us as firefighters 00:44:50.980 --> 00:44:52.980 we're really missing the boat if we're not taking 00:44:52.980 --> 00:44:56.989 every opportunity in the gym to to do the opposite, 00:44:57.130 --> 00:44:59.730 to be mindful of how we're moving, to look at 00:44:59.730 --> 00:45:02.269 the biomechanics of the exercise, to consider 00:45:02.269 --> 00:45:04.289 how we're loading it and how our body manages 00:45:04.289 --> 00:45:06.809 that load, to be aware of our heart rate and 00:45:06.809 --> 00:45:09.849 our rating of perceived exertion during any activity. 00:45:10.269 --> 00:45:12.610 Because the fact of the matter is, when you are 00:45:12.610 --> 00:45:14.489 on the drill ground or you are on the fire ground, 00:45:14.690 --> 00:45:16.949 you don't have the same control of any of that 00:45:16.949 --> 00:45:19.909 that you do in the gym. But if you have that 00:45:19.909 --> 00:45:22.570 awareness that you've developed in the gym, you 00:45:22.570 --> 00:45:26.059 100 % can manage that. on the fire ground and 00:45:26.059 --> 00:45:27.719 you you and i just mentioned a couple things 00:45:27.719 --> 00:45:30.360 whether it's jiu jitsu or in firefighting where 00:45:30.360 --> 00:45:33.119 you're moving a certain way you're you're you're 00:45:33.119 --> 00:45:37.420 at a specific intensity of of challenge if if 00:45:37.420 --> 00:45:39.559 you're not experiencing that for the first time 00:45:39.559 --> 00:45:42.239 in that challenge you've been practicing that 00:45:42.239 --> 00:45:44.280 in the safer environment of a gym or a physical 00:45:44.280 --> 00:45:46.900 training environment you're so much better equipped 00:45:46.900 --> 00:45:49.519 not only to perform at a higher level first of 00:45:49.519 --> 00:45:53.139 all but to avoid injury because you're just very 00:45:53.139 --> 00:45:55.340 aware of how your body's moving and you can make 00:45:55.340 --> 00:45:58.380 adjustments on the fly quite easily. That's a 00:45:58.380 --> 00:46:00.380 really good point. When I think about, you know, 00:46:00.380 --> 00:46:02.980 just fire ground operations in general, you know, 00:46:03.000 --> 00:46:05.159 you... want to be cognizant of radio traffic, 00:46:05.239 --> 00:46:08.119 you want to be cognizant of overhead wires, fire 00:46:08.119 --> 00:46:10.320 conditions, all these things. So if you just 00:46:10.320 --> 00:46:12.619 shut off air quotes every time you work out, 00:46:12.780 --> 00:46:15.280 then you're conditioning your brain to not be 00:46:15.280 --> 00:46:17.579 aware when in the real world, we need to be the 00:46:17.579 --> 00:46:19.860 opposite. We need to minimize our exertion and 00:46:19.860 --> 00:46:23.260 maximize our awareness. 100%. And that's what 00:46:23.260 --> 00:46:25.920 I was in the training division for a long time 00:46:25.920 --> 00:46:28.719 and was coaching recruits in academy for a long 00:46:28.719 --> 00:46:31.320 time. And that's a really... really fun place 00:46:31.320 --> 00:46:33.460 to be because recruits uh whether they like it 00:46:33.460 --> 00:46:36.860 or not they they get to listen to to you and 00:46:36.860 --> 00:46:39.260 they and they execute what they're told but but 00:46:39.260 --> 00:46:41.420 we present it in a way that they buy into and 00:46:41.420 --> 00:46:43.519 we check in with them on that but to come into 00:46:43.519 --> 00:46:45.639 academy and say hey number one rule of academy 00:46:45.639 --> 00:46:49.059 is don't get hurt like don't get hurt and so 00:46:49.059 --> 00:46:52.119 we never use physical training in recruit academy 00:46:52.119 --> 00:46:55.920 as a test we never force someone in recruit academy 00:46:55.920 --> 00:46:57.699 to do something that exceeds their abilities 00:46:58.380 --> 00:47:01.380 uh that whole that whole idea of you know give 00:47:01.380 --> 00:47:04.099 someone a fish versus teach them to fish from 00:47:04.099 --> 00:47:08.380 from day one we teach recruits all of these principles 00:47:08.380 --> 00:47:11.840 around physical training with intention be mindful 00:47:11.840 --> 00:47:15.440 really embrace these objective and subjective 00:47:15.440 --> 00:47:18.380 scoring metrics in the gym and then when you're 00:47:18.380 --> 00:47:22.400 on the job you can translate that so it takes 00:47:22.400 --> 00:47:24.320 like any lessons or anything you're teaching 00:47:24.320 --> 00:47:26.500 it takes a little bit of time to there's a little 00:47:26.500 --> 00:47:28.099 bit of a learning curve but it's really really 00:47:28.099 --> 00:47:30.940 awesome as a as an instructor to see recruits 00:47:30.940 --> 00:47:33.420 for one to kind of pick it up and apply it in 00:47:33.420 --> 00:47:34.800 the gym but now when you're on the drill ground 00:47:34.800 --> 00:47:37.800 you see hey they're in a position for a ground 00:47:37.800 --> 00:47:40.980 ladder lift you say hey spine straight or you 00:47:40.980 --> 00:47:43.400 just give one little coaching cue in terms of 00:47:43.400 --> 00:47:45.639 body position that they've heard a hundred times 00:47:45.639 --> 00:47:48.099 in the gym then on the drill ground bang they 00:47:48.099 --> 00:47:50.539 just immediately they know exactly what it means 00:47:50.539 --> 00:47:53.519 if they didn't tune into it themselves it only 00:47:53.519 --> 00:47:56.110 takes one word and then You see them demonstrate 00:47:56.110 --> 00:47:58.590 it physically immediately. And then they have 00:47:58.590 --> 00:48:00.989 that for the rest of their career. You're teaching 00:48:00.989 --> 00:48:03.570 them from the very beginning how to move safely 00:48:03.570 --> 00:48:05.449 and effectively and how to optimize their performance 00:48:05.449 --> 00:48:09.070 with all these tools. And they have that forever. 00:48:09.949 --> 00:48:12.530 What about breathing? This is something that 00:48:12.530 --> 00:48:14.409 I love to talk to either the breathwork people 00:48:14.409 --> 00:48:19.489 or the coaches. You take a step back, there are 00:48:19.489 --> 00:48:22.530 only a few occupations on the planet where the 00:48:22.530 --> 00:48:25.250 only air they have available to them is strapped 00:48:25.250 --> 00:48:27.750 to their back, whether it's underwater, in space, 00:48:27.769 --> 00:48:32.070 or in an IDLH environment. And yet, the only 00:48:32.070 --> 00:48:34.730 breathing conversations I ever heard, which I 00:48:34.730 --> 00:48:36.969 used all the way through my career, was things 00:48:36.969 --> 00:48:38.730 like skip breathing, when you were doing the, 00:48:38.730 --> 00:48:41.869 you know, how long can your air tank last? But 00:48:41.869 --> 00:48:45.170 when you actually think about using breath and 00:48:45.170 --> 00:48:47.949 exercise, I love the CrossFit EMOM. You know, 00:48:47.969 --> 00:48:49.949 because usually you'll be at 30 seconds work 00:48:49.949 --> 00:48:52.650 and 30 seconds recovery. So that would be a very 00:48:52.650 --> 00:48:55.449 deliberate, you know, breath practice to try 00:48:55.449 --> 00:48:57.670 and get your heart rate down for the next round. 00:48:58.849 --> 00:49:00.889 But, you know, when I'm thinking about the more 00:49:00.889 --> 00:49:03.369 menial task, whether it's ascending, you know, 00:49:03.389 --> 00:49:05.409 before you get to the fire floor, whether it's, 00:49:05.409 --> 00:49:07.150 you know, make an entry, whatever the thing is, 00:49:07.289 --> 00:49:10.469 these moments where you get to downregulate, 00:49:10.590 --> 00:49:12.329 you're taking a knee for a moment, you know, 00:49:12.329 --> 00:49:14.849 maybe you're not the one forcing the door. and 00:49:14.849 --> 00:49:17.489 teaching people how to not just conserve their 00:49:17.489 --> 00:49:20.829 air air quotes but actually be mindful with you 00:49:20.829 --> 00:49:23.050 know their their breathing itself so what's your 00:49:23.050 --> 00:49:25.889 observations on that whole conversation yeah 00:49:25.889 --> 00:49:28.429 and again uh this is where I have gratitude around 00:49:28.429 --> 00:49:30.730 this I go back to my mentorship with Scott Sonnen 00:49:30.730 --> 00:49:33.489 and he taught all of us in again this physical 00:49:33.489 --> 00:49:36.070 training environment but it it applied directly 00:49:36.070 --> 00:49:39.150 to our firefighting he teaches about movement 00:49:39.150 --> 00:49:41.610 breathing and structure so that comes back to 00:49:42.429 --> 00:49:44.730 uh structure being your body's in a good position 00:49:44.730 --> 00:49:47.989 always movement meaning the biomechanics uh protect 00:49:47.989 --> 00:49:49.889 your movement quality and then the breathing 00:49:49.889 --> 00:49:52.869 and so in my experience you know there's kind 00:49:52.869 --> 00:49:55.130 of two types of breathing during exercise and 00:49:55.130 --> 00:49:57.429 then we can talk about what he called the reset 00:49:57.429 --> 00:50:00.530 breathing but there's force breathing where on 00:50:00.530 --> 00:50:03.050 any exertion you're breathing out right like 00:50:03.050 --> 00:50:08.889 and we learn that we teach that he he always 00:50:08.889 --> 00:50:11.070 taught a more effective way to breathe he called 00:50:11.070 --> 00:50:14.380 it flow breathing So anytime your body compresses, 00:50:14.380 --> 00:50:17.239 you're exhaling. And anytime your body expands, 00:50:17.380 --> 00:50:19.920 you're inhaling. So in some ways, it's even the 00:50:19.920 --> 00:50:23.179 opposite. So if I'm doing a ground ladder press 00:50:23.179 --> 00:50:28.719 alternating, I'm actually inhaling. Anytime my 00:50:28.719 --> 00:50:32.480 body's opening up, I'm inhaling. Anytime my body's 00:50:32.480 --> 00:50:35.199 compressing, I'm exhaling. And if you start practicing 00:50:35.199 --> 00:50:38.260 that in the gym, there's none of that bracing. 00:50:38.300 --> 00:50:41.699 There's none of that. uh inner thoracic pressure 00:50:41.699 --> 00:50:43.800 that comes from like breath holding or bracing 00:50:43.800 --> 00:50:46.639 now it's just flowing so if you even apply that 00:50:46.639 --> 00:50:53.699 to a push -up you just your body naturally breathe 00:50:53.699 --> 00:50:56.690 it breathes itself almost like a bellows and 00:50:56.690 --> 00:50:59.389 it takes some getting used to but as your conditioning 00:50:59.389 --> 00:51:02.269 improves as your awareness of your intensity 00:51:02.269 --> 00:51:05.329 in exercise and in movement improves you can 00:51:05.329 --> 00:51:08.789 much more readily apply this idea of flow breathing 00:51:08.789 --> 00:51:11.869 and it's synergistic the movement of your body 00:51:11.869 --> 00:51:15.070 and how your breath breathes is is natural there's 00:51:15.070 --> 00:51:18.389 no no stoppage whatsoever so i'd encourage people 00:51:18.389 --> 00:51:20.030 to kind of look into that or practice that because 00:51:20.030 --> 00:51:23.409 it that was a game changer for me 100 and then 00:51:24.010 --> 00:51:26.710 kind of those that idea of taking a break or 00:51:26.710 --> 00:51:29.730 recovering in these intervals uh coach sonnen 00:51:29.730 --> 00:51:31.809 he never liked to call it rest intervals he always 00:51:31.809 --> 00:51:33.969 liked to use the word recovery and because again 00:51:33.969 --> 00:51:36.769 we want to be mindful and intentional and he 00:51:36.769 --> 00:51:38.690 would teach a reset breathing technique where 00:51:38.690 --> 00:51:40.929 on the exhale you know you're shaking your body 00:51:40.929 --> 00:51:43.269 and you're really fully exhaling all the air 00:51:43.269 --> 00:51:45.929 out of your lungs and then allowing your body 00:51:45.929 --> 00:51:48.269 to breathe in what it needs and then that forceful 00:51:48.269 --> 00:51:51.440 exhale and And again, you see your heart rate 00:51:51.440 --> 00:51:54.900 come down much more quickly with a more intentional 00:51:54.900 --> 00:51:57.119 approach to your reset and recovery breathing 00:51:57.119 --> 00:52:00.579 than it would otherwise. So a long -winded way, 00:52:00.679 --> 00:52:02.500 no pun intended, to answer your question that 00:52:02.500 --> 00:52:05.039 it comes back to being intentional. And it comes 00:52:05.039 --> 00:52:08.960 back to not saying one way is the only way to 00:52:08.960 --> 00:52:13.559 do it, but having these different tools and skills 00:52:13.559 --> 00:52:16.190 available to you that you can apply. in the right 00:52:16.190 --> 00:52:19.050 environment if you're a power lifter yeah you've 00:52:19.050 --> 00:52:21.070 got to be really good at the force breathing 00:52:21.070 --> 00:52:23.110 but if you're on the fire ground or you're doing 00:52:23.110 --> 00:52:25.090 interval training you're doing something for 00:52:25.090 --> 00:52:27.510 a more extended period of time that flow breathing 00:52:27.510 --> 00:52:30.829 is is an amazing tool an amazing skill to develop 00:52:30.829 --> 00:52:35.110 what about nasal breathing i had um several people 00:52:35.110 --> 00:52:39.000 now on the show talking about that and I think 00:52:39.000 --> 00:52:41.219 for me personally, up to a certain intensity, 00:52:41.239 --> 00:52:44.300 it works really well after that. You know, Chris 00:52:44.300 --> 00:52:46.360 Hinshaw was talking about, there's a certain 00:52:46.360 --> 00:52:49.179 point where you're almost training the body to 00:52:49.179 --> 00:52:51.000 seem like it's starving of oxygen and that can 00:52:51.000 --> 00:52:53.139 be detrimental. But then the lower intensity 00:52:53.139 --> 00:52:55.760 stuff, I found it really, really effective of 00:52:55.760 --> 00:52:59.300 stopping the heart rate from spiking unnecessarily. 00:53:00.320 --> 00:53:03.260 Yeah. And what I've, I haven't done a deep dive 00:53:03.260 --> 00:53:05.940 into it, but what I've heard and learned is similar 00:53:05.940 --> 00:53:08.300 to what you're saying that up to a point. uh 00:53:08.300 --> 00:53:10.860 really makes sense to do that i will add that 00:53:10.860 --> 00:53:14.800 i'm a mouth tape advocate now in terms of sleeping 00:53:14.800 --> 00:53:18.440 so if i'm not wearing mouth tape when i sleep 00:53:18.440 --> 00:53:22.239 it objectively disrupts my sleep and i don't 00:53:22.480 --> 00:53:24.800 feel great although it took me a little bit of 00:53:24.800 --> 00:53:27.900 time to get used to it so all to say i don't 00:53:27.900 --> 00:53:30.880 have deep knowledge necessarily on that topic 00:53:30.880 --> 00:53:33.679 specifically but what i have heard is in alignment 00:53:33.679 --> 00:53:36.119 with what you've heard and certainly as it applies 00:53:36.119 --> 00:53:39.539 to sleep and and uh being more intentional about 00:53:39.539 --> 00:53:41.739 nasal breathing i'm i'm definitely on board with 00:53:41.739 --> 00:53:45.599 that let's take a journey as far as the fitness 00:53:45.599 --> 00:53:49.059 of a firefighter um obviously the front door 00:53:49.679 --> 00:53:52.260 is uh you know hiring standards as far as fitness 00:53:52.260 --> 00:53:56.139 tests so talk to me about your philosophy on 00:53:56.139 --> 00:54:01.079 that in general yeah and so well uh when i first 00:54:01.079 --> 00:54:05.880 got hired at my department we had a very strenuous 00:54:05.880 --> 00:54:11.159 uh physical ability test um maybe even too much 00:54:11.159 --> 00:54:14.659 so because it did disqualify a lot of candidates 00:54:14.659 --> 00:54:16.400 that i'm sure would have been great firefighters 00:54:16.400 --> 00:54:21.260 on the flip side the current CPAT I think is 00:54:21.260 --> 00:54:24.400 great, but it doesn't guarantee success in Recruit 00:54:24.400 --> 00:54:28.500 Academy. So I've observed individuals that have 00:54:28.500 --> 00:54:32.480 successfully passed the CPAT but did not successfully 00:54:32.480 --> 00:54:35.840 pass Recruit Academy because they just didn't 00:54:35.840 --> 00:54:38.519 have the physical ability to do all that was 00:54:38.519 --> 00:54:41.420 asked of them in Academy. So while I see the 00:54:41.420 --> 00:54:44.960 CPAT as really a good screening tool, I think 00:54:44.960 --> 00:54:47.409 it's important and I think some of the really 00:54:47.409 --> 00:54:50.090 proactive departments are actually doing like 00:54:50.090 --> 00:54:52.150 pre -academy physical training they're trying 00:54:52.150 --> 00:54:55.309 to introduce recruits or candidates to a more 00:54:55.309 --> 00:54:59.449 realistic view of what they might encounter in 00:54:59.449 --> 00:55:03.230 recruit academy so coming back to this whole 00:55:03.230 --> 00:55:05.989 idea of conventional fitness versus functional 00:55:05.989 --> 00:55:09.210 fitness versus tactical fitness i think that 00:55:09.210 --> 00:55:13.389 the the wellness fitness initiative has a good 00:55:13.949 --> 00:55:17.090 annual physical fitness assessment. Again, that's 00:55:17.090 --> 00:55:19.650 a more general fitness assessment. They measure 00:55:19.650 --> 00:55:22.750 aerobic capacity, muscular strength and endurance, 00:55:23.170 --> 00:55:25.989 pull strength versus pushing strength, functional 00:55:25.989 --> 00:55:27.809 movement screen. So I think that's a really important 00:55:27.809 --> 00:55:31.809 general fitness assessment. You look at the CPAT, 00:55:31.849 --> 00:55:35.530 I think it's a pretty decent baseline measurement 00:55:35.530 --> 00:55:39.610 of what you'll need in the fire service. For 00:55:39.610 --> 00:55:42.829 me, I've developed a more, what I think, I call 00:55:42.829 --> 00:55:45.900 it the the firefighter tactical fitness assessment 00:55:45.900 --> 00:55:50.639 it's a it's a four -time uh evolution where i 00:55:50.639 --> 00:55:52.480 reverse engineered different movement patterns 00:55:52.480 --> 00:55:55.519 loaded them a certain way and it's not necessarily 00:55:55.519 --> 00:55:58.599 pass fail but it does give an individual a sense 00:55:58.599 --> 00:56:00.519 of what their physical capabilities are what 00:56:00.519 --> 00:56:03.659 their limitations are and it provides a baseline 00:56:03.659 --> 00:56:06.400 that you can always come back and measure and 00:56:06.400 --> 00:56:07.900 are you getting better or are you getting worse 00:56:07.900 --> 00:56:10.539 so i guess that's a long -winded way of saying 00:56:11.179 --> 00:56:13.719 I don't think that fire departments should ever 00:56:13.719 --> 00:56:15.960 lower standards relative to what the needs of 00:56:15.960 --> 00:56:18.639 the job are. I don't think necessarily that we 00:56:18.639 --> 00:56:20.559 need to change the entry level physical from 00:56:20.559 --> 00:56:24.199 the CPAT to something else. I do think that there 00:56:24.199 --> 00:56:27.280 should be better structure and better opportunities 00:56:27.280 --> 00:56:30.780 to prepare candidates through physical training, 00:56:30.840 --> 00:56:32.800 through structured physical training for the 00:56:32.800 --> 00:56:34.820 demands of Recruit Academy. And we're just not 00:56:34.820 --> 00:56:37.760 doing that. What were the movements that you 00:56:37.760 --> 00:56:41.630 had, the four movements for your test? So shoulder 00:56:41.630 --> 00:56:46.030 -loaded walking lunge. There's a parallette four 00:56:46.030 --> 00:56:48.250 -point press, which simulates ground engagement. 00:56:49.530 --> 00:56:53.010 There's a sandbag standing halo rotation, which 00:56:53.010 --> 00:56:57.469 kind of gets into forcible entry or motor vehicle 00:56:57.469 --> 00:57:02.289 extrication, rotation, anti -rotation. There's 00:57:02.289 --> 00:57:05.869 a... front -loaded sandbag squat to simulate 00:57:05.869 --> 00:57:08.829 lifting from the ground. And I think there may 00:57:08.829 --> 00:57:11.389 be a kettlebell swing in there to simulate the 00:57:11.389 --> 00:57:14.309 hinging movement of, you know, dragging or lifting 00:57:14.309 --> 00:57:19.070 someone. So in that, I'm trying to capture most 00:57:19.070 --> 00:57:21.929 of the primary movement patterns that we might 00:57:21.929 --> 00:57:24.789 experience, and they're all loaded in a way similar 00:57:24.789 --> 00:57:28.710 to represent the the things we're called upon 00:57:28.710 --> 00:57:31.429 to do as firefighters and it's it is scalable 00:57:31.429 --> 00:57:36.289 so again there's no it's not a pass fail it's 00:57:36.289 --> 00:57:38.929 meant to be accessible where someone could you 00:57:38.929 --> 00:57:41.130 know they can modify loading they can modify 00:57:41.130 --> 00:57:44.829 volume uh all to get that baseline and major 00:57:44.829 --> 00:57:49.110 progress uh over the long term one of my friends 00:57:49.110 --> 00:57:51.610 uh founded fire sled and if you've heard of that 00:57:51.610 --> 00:57:55.469 but it's um they've got three main um pieces 00:57:55.469 --> 00:57:57.710 of equipment there's a ladder mill you know, 00:57:57.710 --> 00:58:01.130 eternal ladder that would simulate an aerial. 00:58:02.110 --> 00:58:03.889 There's a thing called the Punisher, which is 00:58:03.889 --> 00:58:06.750 like a Kaiser, but it's horizontal. So now you're 00:58:06.750 --> 00:58:09.090 standing and it's kind of waist level as a forceful 00:58:09.090 --> 00:58:11.730 entry would be because we're not using axes on 00:58:11.730 --> 00:58:16.570 roofs anymore. And then the main sled is got 00:58:16.570 --> 00:58:23.269 a ceiling prop. It's got a hose that you drag 00:58:23.269 --> 00:58:24.989 and then obviously dragging the entire sled. 00:58:25.329 --> 00:58:28.940 There's a... a ladder that would kind of simulate 00:58:28.940 --> 00:58:33.199 like a roof ladder um and then on the back of 00:58:33.199 --> 00:58:35.059 the sled there's also handles that would simulate 00:58:35.059 --> 00:58:38.119 a dummy drag so what i love about that is they've 00:58:38.119 --> 00:58:41.420 come up with a version of the cpat but you don't 00:58:41.420 --> 00:58:44.860 need an entire building to run it and if you 00:58:44.860 --> 00:58:47.039 as you said you have a mentorship program you've 00:58:47.039 --> 00:58:49.719 got person x or person y for whatever reason 00:58:49.719 --> 00:58:53.199 they're not at that point yet you can incrementally 00:58:53.199 --> 00:58:55.119 load this sled to get them to the point where 00:58:55.119 --> 00:58:57.989 they can move it So I think that that's another 00:58:57.989 --> 00:59:00.349 great test a lot of people don't know about. 00:59:01.389 --> 00:59:03.329 What's interesting, though, with the CPAT, like 00:59:03.329 --> 00:59:07.010 the Orange County when I worked there, that was 00:59:07.010 --> 00:59:10.650 viewed as too hard for the incumbent test. So 00:59:10.650 --> 00:59:13.409 the iPad, they called it, they made an even easier 00:59:13.409 --> 00:59:16.570 version of that. In my opinion, like you just 00:59:16.570 --> 00:59:19.909 said, I don't think the CPAT is hard at all if 00:59:19.909 --> 00:59:21.670 you're asking someone to be at the level that 00:59:21.670 --> 00:59:24.469 a firefighter should be. So then we'll go to 00:59:24.469 --> 00:59:27.300 the next phase now. fitness standards once you 00:59:27.300 --> 00:59:29.480 have completed the academy and you get into the 00:59:29.480 --> 00:59:31.800 profession you know what is your perspective 00:59:31.800 --> 00:59:34.579 of that because it was pretty damn clear in the 00:59:34.579 --> 00:59:37.539 academy what was expected of us but it blows 00:59:37.539 --> 00:59:40.619 most people's mind that nearly you know no departments 00:59:40.619 --> 00:59:42.800 have a punitive fitness standard when we get 00:59:42.800 --> 00:59:46.559 into the job yeah and so my my viewpoint on this 00:59:46.559 --> 00:59:48.820 might be a little bit biased because of just 00:59:48.820 --> 00:59:51.219 what i've observed in my own department so when 00:59:51.219 --> 00:59:54.400 i i was hired uh in my career department in 1996 00:59:54.400 --> 00:59:58.579 and already i'm there day one they've already 00:59:58.579 --> 01:00:01.360 got fitness testing twice a year they're already 01:00:01.360 --> 01:00:04.659 doing this very um demanding and challenging 01:00:04.659 --> 01:00:07.699 candidate physical ability test and there were 01:00:07.699 --> 01:00:10.500 three people uh connie tucson danny anderson 01:00:10.500 --> 01:00:14.159 and mike larson who in the late 80s early 90s 01:00:14.159 --> 01:00:16.519 against all this you know the folks that were 01:00:16.519 --> 01:00:19.380 smoking and and kind of the old school mentality 01:00:19.380 --> 01:00:22.960 those three specifically kind of planted the 01:00:22.960 --> 01:00:26.329 seed for a culture of fitness and when i got 01:00:26.329 --> 01:00:29.769 there in 96 i would say it was probably 40 had 01:00:29.769 --> 01:00:33.489 that fitness mindset and maybe even 60 didn't 01:00:33.489 --> 01:00:37.469 and so uh lucky for me i was invited to participate 01:00:37.469 --> 01:00:40.690 on that pure fitness team and many many others 01:00:40.690 --> 01:00:43.429 and over the years through again coming back 01:00:43.429 --> 01:00:46.329 to this idea of being very intentional not only 01:00:46.329 --> 01:00:49.889 did we provide these opportunities to firefighters 01:00:49.889 --> 01:00:52.969 in a way that wasn't punitive, we offered monetary 01:00:52.969 --> 01:00:55.909 incentives. So if you participate in the fitness 01:00:55.909 --> 01:00:58.829 testing twice a year, you are awarded a dollar 01:00:58.829 --> 01:01:01.630 amount to kind of incentivize your participation 01:01:01.630 --> 01:01:04.469 in it. And then what happened over a period of 01:01:04.469 --> 01:01:09.829 almost 30 years now is one, that early participation 01:01:09.829 --> 01:01:14.750 and that non -punitive yet monetary incentive. 01:01:15.449 --> 01:01:17.650 kept people engaged in it and then the department 01:01:17.650 --> 01:01:19.610 and and i'm really grateful to the organization 01:01:19.610 --> 01:01:22.909 for committing to this in interviews they would 01:01:22.909 --> 01:01:24.769 we would interview candidates and say hey describe 01:01:24.769 --> 01:01:27.949 to us why physical fitness is important to firefighters 01:01:27.949 --> 01:01:31.090 and tell us your own personal feelings about 01:01:31.090 --> 01:01:33.949 fitness and how you stay fit and you're interviewing 01:01:33.949 --> 01:01:38.130 50 people and you can tell immediately who really 01:01:38.130 --> 01:01:41.030 feels that and who doesn't and so year after 01:01:41.030 --> 01:01:43.510 year after year class after class after class 01:01:44.190 --> 01:01:46.349 our department is hiring, that's not the only 01:01:46.349 --> 01:01:52.090 thing we look at, but it certainly is a big characteristic 01:01:52.090 --> 01:01:54.429 that we look for in hiring our firefighters. 01:01:54.750 --> 01:01:58.610 Fast forward to the year 2025, we have this massive 01:01:58.610 --> 01:02:01.949 sporting event. It's called Ski to Sea, and it's 01:02:01.949 --> 01:02:04.550 literally you ski down the mountain as part of 01:02:04.550 --> 01:02:07.760 a team and you end in a kayak. in Bellingham 01:02:07.760 --> 01:02:12.159 Bay 80 miles later we had four firefighter teams 01:02:12.159 --> 01:02:15.239 in these different divisions and of the four 01:02:15.239 --> 01:02:19.199 teams each of them placed in the top five and 01:02:19.199 --> 01:02:22.239 so you know we talk about tactical athlete well 01:02:22.239 --> 01:02:24.659 yes they're tactical athletes but they're athletes 01:02:24.659 --> 01:02:27.880 like they in their personal lives participate 01:02:27.880 --> 01:02:29.840 in all of this just because that's what they 01:02:29.840 --> 01:02:32.679 love to do and it just so happens that we hired 01:02:32.679 --> 01:02:36.280 them so you know it's a tricky question and one 01:02:36.280 --> 01:02:38.679 of the things i have come to believe you know 01:02:38.679 --> 01:02:41.719 through my whole life experience as a trainer 01:02:41.719 --> 01:02:44.539 and a coach is there's nothing more difficult 01:02:44.539 --> 01:02:47.699 than trying to force someone against their will 01:02:47.699 --> 01:02:51.800 to become fit and i get it like well if we establish 01:02:51.800 --> 01:02:53.639 a standard and they don't meet it they're out 01:02:53.639 --> 01:02:56.440 of here like i i get the mentality of that but 01:02:56.440 --> 01:02:58.039 i just don't see that especially when we look 01:02:58.039 --> 01:03:02.340 at the data where 70 of our fire services obese 01:03:02.340 --> 01:03:04.519 or overweight you know if we we can't get rid 01:03:04.519 --> 01:03:06.480 of you know can't kick everyone out the door 01:03:06.480 --> 01:03:10.300 right and nor should we um but but all to say 01:03:10.300 --> 01:03:12.659 we should have absolutely have these standards 01:03:12.659 --> 01:03:16.099 but i believe there's so many ways to build a 01:03:16.099 --> 01:03:18.480 culture of fitness it starts with leading by 01:03:18.480 --> 01:03:20.719 example as an organization and supporting these 01:03:20.719 --> 01:03:23.280 initiatives in the department leading by example 01:03:23.280 --> 01:03:26.019 for those that are incumbent in you know demonstrating 01:03:26.019 --> 01:03:29.480 fitness and being fit and then all the way down 01:03:29.480 --> 01:03:31.519 to the hiring, just make it, you know, make sure 01:03:31.519 --> 01:03:33.380 you're communicating clearly to your candidates 01:03:33.380 --> 01:03:36.099 what the expectations are and and really striving 01:03:36.099 --> 01:03:37.940 to hire people that come in with that fitness. 01:03:38.059 --> 01:03:40.519 And then it just builds, builds on itself. And 01:03:40.519 --> 01:03:44.039 so, yeah, you know, I think in some ways we have 01:03:44.039 --> 01:03:46.099 to meet people where they are, but that's where 01:03:46.099 --> 01:03:47.900 that's kind of where we drop the ball. We don't 01:03:47.900 --> 01:03:50.679 you know, we just don't really implement these 01:03:50.679 --> 01:03:53.579 programs in our fire departments in a way that 01:03:53.579 --> 01:03:57.199 objectively. could be successful and and i don't 01:03:57.199 --> 01:03:59.619 think it has to be extreme one way or the other 01:03:59.619 --> 01:04:02.920 i think there's a really really great way that 01:04:02.920 --> 01:04:04.880 we could structure this to be comprehensive in 01:04:04.880 --> 01:04:07.360 a way to to certainly set the standard but also 01:04:07.360 --> 01:04:09.780 to help people to get there yeah i think that's 01:04:09.780 --> 01:04:11.639 that's you know where we need to go now and the 01:04:11.639 --> 01:04:13.920 sad thing is we are playing catch up you know 01:04:13.920 --> 01:04:15.860 this is the problem so people like oh you're 01:04:15.860 --> 01:04:17.300 trying to take our jobs like no we're trying 01:04:17.300 --> 01:04:19.940 to save your lives yeah and in the process make 01:04:19.940 --> 01:04:21.920 you able to save someone else's that's the harsh 01:04:21.920 --> 01:04:25.650 reality And so no, no one's saying tomorrow, 01:04:25.809 --> 01:04:27.989 if you're not this weight, then you're out. They're 01:04:27.989 --> 01:04:30.090 saying there would be an on -ramp of whatever 01:04:30.090 --> 01:04:32.889 year, 18 months where you have to get to that 01:04:32.889 --> 01:04:34.650 point. And we will give you the, the, you know, 01:04:34.670 --> 01:04:37.949 the trainers and all the tools. But by that point, 01:04:37.989 --> 01:04:40.250 it would be very evident if you actually give 01:04:40.250 --> 01:04:42.230 a shit or you don't. And if you don't, maybe 01:04:42.230 --> 01:04:44.550 fire prevention or, you know, maybe not the fire 01:04:44.550 --> 01:04:46.969 department at all is an option because the other 01:04:46.969 --> 01:04:49.190 side of this conversation, and I've, I've said 01:04:49.190 --> 01:04:53.539 this many times on here. your own family now, 01:04:53.659 --> 01:04:57.400 how would you feel if your family died because 01:04:57.400 --> 01:05:00.699 the rescuer tapped out halfway up the building? 01:05:01.980 --> 01:05:05.780 Unacceptable. Unacceptable. If you're a lifeguard, 01:05:05.860 --> 01:05:07.679 and I was a lifeguard, I had a lot of ocean lifeguards 01:05:07.679 --> 01:05:10.619 on here. Every six months they recertify. You're 01:05:10.619 --> 01:05:12.320 going to give them a little sad story about it's 01:05:12.320 --> 01:05:14.639 really hard to swim. Can I just be a lifeguard 01:05:14.639 --> 01:05:17.340 anyway? Of course not. You signed up for this. 01:05:17.380 --> 01:05:19.480 You're not a fucking plumber. You're a firefighter. 01:05:19.900 --> 01:05:22.300 So there has to be that line in the sand too. 01:05:22.500 --> 01:05:24.599 But like we're talking about, then we've got 01:05:24.599 --> 01:05:27.480 to give these people the resources to maintain 01:05:27.480 --> 01:05:29.519 their fitness, to maintain their mobility, to 01:05:29.519 --> 01:05:31.840 maintain their mental health so they can operate. 01:05:32.079 --> 01:05:35.179 But it is a high level. Like the SEALs, the PJs, 01:05:35.179 --> 01:05:38.280 all these war fighters everyone admires, they 01:05:38.280 --> 01:05:41.340 hold us to the same bar. They really do. I've 01:05:41.340 --> 01:05:43.639 been told over and over and over again. Because 01:05:43.639 --> 01:05:45.340 when they're overseas, who's protecting their 01:05:45.340 --> 01:05:48.699 family? We are. And so but you're telling me 01:05:48.699 --> 01:05:51.360 that it's not fair that you have to lose 60 pounds 01:05:51.360 --> 01:05:53.079 and get back into the shape that you were in 01:05:53.079 --> 01:05:55.400 the academy when you said this is my minimum 01:05:55.400 --> 01:05:57.980 standard. So I think, you know, it is it is a 01:05:57.980 --> 01:05:59.840 conversation, but it's a conversation that needs 01:05:59.840 --> 01:06:02.039 some courage by leadership because the line does 01:06:02.039 --> 01:06:04.739 have to be put in the sand. And then you create 01:06:04.739 --> 01:06:07.539 a culture of fitness that sustains that. But 01:06:07.539 --> 01:06:10.119 right now, all this whining and opposition from 01:06:10.119 --> 01:06:13.570 unions, you know. It's a disservice to the people 01:06:13.570 --> 01:06:15.849 that we serve and it's shortening the lifespan 01:06:15.849 --> 01:06:18.690 of the first responder because a fit firefighter 01:06:18.690 --> 01:06:21.289 is most likely going to have a much longer lifespan 01:06:21.289 --> 01:06:25.389 than an unfit one. Well, and that's where I personally 01:06:25.389 --> 01:06:28.369 really like the idea of embracing the term tactical 01:06:28.369 --> 01:06:32.090 athlete. And if you just the most simple definition 01:06:32.090 --> 01:06:36.269 of athlete is participating in an endeavor that 01:06:36.269 --> 01:06:39.650 requires skill and physical fitness, skill and 01:06:39.650 --> 01:06:43.469 physical fitness. in its most simple definition 01:06:43.469 --> 01:06:47.230 and if you talk to anyone and you say athlete 01:06:47.230 --> 01:06:49.570 this person's an athlete that person's an athlete 01:06:49.570 --> 01:06:52.610 immediately with one word you're getting that 01:06:52.610 --> 01:06:56.250 connotation you you understand that now i don't 01:06:56.250 --> 01:06:59.150 sit here and think that firefighters need to 01:06:59.150 --> 01:07:03.469 be athletic in terms of how they move i certainly 01:07:03.469 --> 01:07:06.190 have no one that's ever met me in my entire life 01:07:06.190 --> 01:07:09.739 would ever describe me as athletic never i've 01:07:09.739 --> 01:07:11.679 been physically fit though i'm physically fit 01:07:11.679 --> 01:07:14.460 and i have some degree of skill related to being 01:07:14.460 --> 01:07:17.619 a firefighter so meeting that definition and 01:07:17.619 --> 01:07:19.900 then you think about well who who do we need 01:07:19.900 --> 01:07:23.380 to get buy -in from well it starts with the individual 01:07:23.380 --> 01:07:27.280 and then it's the agency and then it's the union 01:07:27.280 --> 01:07:30.039 and then it's the community or those that represent 01:07:30.039 --> 01:07:33.039 the community right and so if we can use one 01:07:33.039 --> 01:07:37.059 phrase tactical athlete and we can use that phrase 01:07:37.059 --> 01:07:41.039 to get buy -in for participating in supporting 01:07:41.039 --> 01:07:44.780 and fully funding everything we're talking about 01:07:44.780 --> 01:07:49.440 around firefighter health and performance let's 01:07:49.440 --> 01:07:51.440 start there like let's start using the language 01:07:51.440 --> 01:07:54.800 that puts us in the best position to support 01:07:54.800 --> 01:07:56.960 our firefighters and this brings me all the way 01:07:56.960 --> 01:07:59.039 back to my experience at washington state university 01:07:59.039 --> 01:08:01.420 looking at the way the athletes were supported 01:08:01.420 --> 01:08:05.440 well here they are the the university wants them 01:08:05.440 --> 01:08:08.559 to perform at a certain level on the field Saturday 01:08:08.559 --> 01:08:11.119 that's what they want them to do so in order 01:08:11.119 --> 01:08:14.980 to get there they give them nutrition plan and 01:08:14.980 --> 01:08:17.760 access to healthy food coaching and access to 01:08:17.760 --> 01:08:21.159 a gym athletic trainers and access to rehab and 01:08:21.159 --> 01:08:24.319 recovery access to mental health like they have 01:08:24.319 --> 01:08:26.880 access to all of that that was more than 30 years 01:08:26.880 --> 01:08:31.000 ago just for one college football team so imagine 01:08:31.000 --> 01:08:34.100 if firefighters had access in a structured way 01:08:34.100 --> 01:08:37.630 to all of that and again even the wellness fish 01:08:37.630 --> 01:08:39.689 initiative that we're talking about that's a 01:08:39.689 --> 01:08:42.569 great start like it really does package and deliver 01:08:42.569 --> 01:08:44.770 all of these things in that way if we could just 01:08:44.770 --> 01:08:47.170 get all of those stakeholders and coming back 01:08:47.170 --> 01:08:50.029 to the individual the agency the the union and 01:08:50.029 --> 01:08:52.630 the community to all really buy into this idea 01:08:52.630 --> 01:08:55.369 of being a tactical athlete maybe we can garner 01:08:55.369 --> 01:08:57.869 that support and that funding and that buy -in 01:08:57.869 --> 01:09:00.670 to really start putting those pieces in place 01:09:00.670 --> 01:09:02.630 to support the performance and health of our 01:09:02.630 --> 01:09:05.829 firefighters i'm always very fair when i talk 01:09:05.829 --> 01:09:08.590 about this whole you know firefighter fitness 01:09:08.590 --> 01:09:12.369 conversation because you know some people you 01:09:12.369 --> 01:09:14.329 know i could get on my ivory tower and say well 01:09:14.329 --> 01:09:16.130 if you just did what i did and you know then 01:09:16.130 --> 01:09:19.069 you'd be still in shape but i grew up on a farm 01:09:19.069 --> 01:09:22.229 in england you know we grew food in the orchard 01:09:22.229 --> 01:09:23.829 you know what i mean it's a completely different 01:09:23.829 --> 01:09:27.289 environment and so you know how dare i then say 01:09:27.289 --> 01:09:29.329 oh you just be like me like you see a lot of 01:09:29.329 --> 01:09:32.710 these influencers doing environment plus ownership 01:09:32.710 --> 01:09:35.409 equals you know fitness or whatever it is that 01:09:35.409 --> 01:09:38.329 you're pursuing and we have not created an environment 01:09:38.329 --> 01:09:40.890 for rest and recovery in the fire service so 01:09:40.890 --> 01:09:43.210 before we kind of take into a dive into your 01:09:43.210 --> 01:09:46.229 shift schedule talk to me about the importance 01:09:46.229 --> 01:09:49.850 of sleep through now your trainers you know performance 01:09:49.850 --> 01:09:52.850 lens oh my goodness well again kind of coming 01:09:52.850 --> 01:09:55.350 back to my own personal experience so i was on 01:09:55.350 --> 01:09:58.909 a paramedic unit for six years and we were busy 01:09:58.909 --> 01:10:02.970 like we and again i know a lot i'm speaking to 01:10:02.970 --> 01:10:05.970 the audience out there guys and gals i i'm just 01:10:05.970 --> 01:10:08.130 saying i i know how you feel because i felt the 01:10:08.130 --> 01:10:10.670 same way you're busy there's no sleep maybe you 01:10:10.670 --> 01:10:12.970 work overtime shifts in there james there were 01:10:12.970 --> 01:10:15.069 times where i would be having lunch with a friend 01:10:15.069 --> 01:10:18.710 and and i would literally fall asleep like even 01:10:18.710 --> 01:10:21.350 and what kind of wake up and not hear a word 01:10:21.350 --> 01:10:24.130 they said like not fully fall asleep but my brain 01:10:24.130 --> 01:10:26.670 would just kind of kind of shut down and then 01:10:26.670 --> 01:10:29.529 every every so many weeks i would get physically 01:10:29.529 --> 01:10:33.890 sick my body would force me to sleep. And back 01:10:33.890 --> 01:10:36.750 then, I'm in my 20s, so I'm not paying any attention, 01:10:36.850 --> 01:10:39.550 nor do I have really any information around, 01:10:39.789 --> 01:10:41.930 hey guys, let's go do red beer breakfast, or 01:10:41.930 --> 01:10:43.609 hey guys, let's go to Vegas this weekend, or 01:10:43.609 --> 01:10:46.250 hey, let's go have some drinks and blow off steam. 01:10:46.729 --> 01:10:50.109 And so all the things that now we know are also 01:10:50.109 --> 01:10:53.149 destroying your sleep while you're also getting 01:10:53.149 --> 01:10:57.979 crushed at night on shift. wow, it's terrible. 01:10:58.260 --> 01:11:00.539 And so then I went into the training division 01:11:00.539 --> 01:11:03.000 for a period of time. And it was the first time 01:11:03.000 --> 01:11:06.319 in maybe 20 years, 15 years that I actually had 01:11:06.319 --> 01:11:09.739 slept every night for a period of weeks. And 01:11:09.739 --> 01:11:11.819 it was like, you know, your glasses get dirty 01:11:11.819 --> 01:11:13.819 and you clean them off and you put your glasses 01:11:13.819 --> 01:11:17.020 back. Oh my God, look how clear the world looks. 01:11:17.079 --> 01:11:20.079 Like I had no idea what my baseline of fatigue 01:11:20.079 --> 01:11:23.060 and sleep deprivation had become. And then fast 01:11:23.060 --> 01:11:26.810 forward. now i'm late in my career and i went 01:11:26.810 --> 01:11:29.250 back into the training division again for i was 01:11:29.250 --> 01:11:32.170 in there for 10 years and i was working out on 01:11:32.170 --> 01:11:34.329 a regular schedule i was eating on a regular 01:11:34.329 --> 01:11:37.670 schedule i was sleeping every night um man i 01:11:37.670 --> 01:11:40.270 felt i felt great even as an older person you 01:11:40.270 --> 01:11:42.149 know i felt pretty good and now i'm back on shift 01:11:42.149 --> 01:11:44.189 as a battalion chief and i don't i don't get 01:11:44.189 --> 01:11:46.550 up like the crews do but i don't sleep very well 01:11:46.550 --> 01:11:50.449 uh for lots of reasons but now i feel now i feel 01:11:50.449 --> 01:11:52.130 the effects of that sleep deprivation what's 01:11:52.130 --> 01:11:55.399 different now that i'm older and wiser on one 01:11:55.399 --> 01:11:58.039 side i feel like maybe i'm more susceptible because 01:11:58.039 --> 01:12:00.199 i am older i i can't believe what i got away 01:12:00.199 --> 01:12:02.880 with as a younger person you know just i don't 01:12:02.880 --> 01:12:05.579 know how i did that but uh i don't get away with 01:12:05.579 --> 01:12:08.359 anything now as an older person so if i can you 01:12:08.359 --> 01:12:10.659 know i've got my aura ring and i monitor my sleep 01:12:10.659 --> 01:12:14.039 quality i go to bed early at home and on shift 01:12:14.039 --> 01:12:16.859 to just try to at least get one good sleep cycle 01:12:16.859 --> 01:12:19.899 on shift maybe if i'm lucky um you know taking 01:12:19.899 --> 01:12:23.130 naps uh being mindful of when I eat my dinner 01:12:23.130 --> 01:12:25.590 at night, being mindful of when I drink my coffee 01:12:25.590 --> 01:12:28.550 during the day. Like there's so many tools available 01:12:28.550 --> 01:12:31.569 to us, even as shift workers to not have perfect 01:12:31.569 --> 01:12:34.590 sleep, but to maybe improve, avoid alcohol or 01:12:34.590 --> 01:12:37.050 be mindful of how and when you drink alcohol. 01:12:37.189 --> 01:12:40.510 Like we know so much more than we did back in 01:12:40.510 --> 01:12:44.109 my day to at least help us manage and mitigate 01:12:44.109 --> 01:12:47.010 that versus just completely crushing our sleep 01:12:47.010 --> 01:12:50.170 at every opportunity. So what is the schedule? 01:12:50.210 --> 01:12:52.630 You mentioned one on two off, one on four off. 01:12:52.770 --> 01:12:54.670 Are there debit days you've got to work as well? 01:12:55.170 --> 01:12:57.949 Yes. Yes. So our debit days fall on our four 01:12:57.949 --> 01:12:59.810 day. And it's interesting, you know, I've been 01:12:59.810 --> 01:13:01.949 really watching from a distance the one on three 01:13:01.949 --> 01:13:05.270 off that you've been really advocating for. And 01:13:05.270 --> 01:13:08.149 gosh, that sounds pretty good. You know, the 01:13:08.149 --> 01:13:11.590 two off never feels like enough. And the four 01:13:11.590 --> 01:13:15.270 off, I always feel great. And so maybe that three 01:13:15.270 --> 01:13:18.600 off is just the real sweet spot to... to find 01:13:18.600 --> 01:13:20.659 that balance between recovering fully between 01:13:20.659 --> 01:13:23.880 each shift is there a conversation to eliminate 01:13:23.880 --> 01:13:25.819 a debit these because this was interesting with 01:13:25.819 --> 01:13:28.140 the northwest is you you have a four platoon 01:13:28.140 --> 01:13:31.020 system don't you it's just again someone who 01:13:31.020 --> 01:13:32.779 worked 40 hours convinced you that you needed 01:13:32.779 --> 01:13:35.979 to make up hours to to go to 48 or whatever it 01:13:35.979 --> 01:13:39.000 was that you work so um you know this is what's 01:13:39.000 --> 01:13:41.500 beautiful about you know your area of the country 01:13:41.500 --> 01:13:44.560 is just all you have to do now is just get the 01:13:44.560 --> 01:13:46.520 stuff in the cover those debit days and now you're 01:13:46.520 --> 01:13:50.630 technically fully staffed 24 72 um and again 01:13:50.630 --> 01:13:52.529 you know whether i mean what you're doing is 01:13:52.529 --> 01:13:54.510 not terrible but people have said to me which 01:13:54.510 --> 01:13:58.289 is the best one um because i think it was i think 01:13:58.289 --> 01:14:00.489 there was one guy from miami when i was at a 01:14:00.489 --> 01:14:03.590 conference recently and they want to do 24 on 01:14:03.590 --> 01:14:06.689 24 off 24 on and then it was like five off or 01:14:06.689 --> 01:14:09.029 something like that and i'm and you know people 01:14:09.029 --> 01:14:10.529 said to me what do you think and i'm like well 01:14:10.529 --> 01:14:14.050 this the science is irrefutable that you need 01:14:14.050 --> 01:14:17.810 at least 72 hours to recover from a 24 so if 01:14:17.810 --> 01:14:20.310 you're happy being a much worse firefighter on 01:14:20.310 --> 01:14:22.170 that second day you're not really caring about 01:14:22.170 --> 01:14:24.710 how the citizen you know the delivery of service 01:14:24.710 --> 01:14:27.090 and yeah if it's all about you maybe that's good 01:14:27.090 --> 01:14:29.590 but if you actually care about being a professional 01:14:29.590 --> 01:14:33.270 and you get to change the schedule then the 24 01:14:33.270 --> 01:14:37.819 72 on paper is the best one until we do a 2496 01:14:37.819 --> 01:14:40.399 or, you know, get even more rest and recovery. 01:14:40.659 --> 01:14:43.539 But I think that's the sweet spot because as 01:14:43.539 --> 01:14:46.739 you said, that 48, which most of us work 2448, 01:14:46.939 --> 01:14:49.119 you know, around the country, it's, it's not 01:14:49.119 --> 01:14:51.340 enough. It is just not enough because it's not 01:14:51.340 --> 01:14:54.500 two days off because everyone forgets what time 01:14:54.500 --> 01:14:57.579 did you go home? 8am. So did you work from midnight 01:14:57.579 --> 01:14:59.640 to eight? Yeah. So that's eight hours work. Yeah. 01:14:59.779 --> 01:15:02.640 Would you call that a work day? Well, yeah. So 01:15:02.640 --> 01:15:05.210 really you've had one day off. so all the 24 01:15:05.210 --> 01:15:07.750 72 is actually doing is giving you two full days 01:15:07.750 --> 01:15:10.590 off between shifts yeah and how many of us would 01:15:10.590 --> 01:15:14.109 agree that that first day off shift you're never 01:15:14.109 --> 01:15:16.130 at your best so watch whether you're looking 01:15:16.130 --> 01:15:17.930 at your workout or looking at any productive 01:15:17.930 --> 01:15:19.869 work you might do or even how you might interact 01:15:19.869 --> 01:15:22.649 with your family at home at least for me that 01:15:22.649 --> 01:15:26.890 day after work is is always always always for 01:15:26.890 --> 01:15:29.369 the entire history of my career uh less than 01:15:29.369 --> 01:15:31.909 optimal yeah so this is where i think you know 01:15:32.460 --> 01:15:36.439 Again, putting empathy and compassion into the 01:15:36.439 --> 01:15:39.039 firefighters that have found themselves deconditioned 01:15:39.039 --> 01:15:41.260 with opposition of fitness standards that could 01:15:41.260 --> 01:15:43.699 have maintained them. But also now you've got 01:15:43.699 --> 01:15:47.199 an environment that is absolutely hands down, 01:15:47.260 --> 01:15:50.239 scientifically proven, setting you up for failure 01:15:50.239 --> 01:15:53.439 with weight gain, with cardiac issues, with testosterone 01:15:53.439 --> 01:15:58.020 depletion, etc. So this is what irks me is now. 01:15:58.760 --> 01:16:01.979 Our current IFF leadership are based in Boston 01:16:01.979 --> 01:16:06.319 who work 24 -72. And there's still no conversation 01:16:06.319 --> 01:16:08.579 about, well, let's make that a national standard. 01:16:08.720 --> 01:16:11.020 Because I think, again, going back to our conversation 01:16:11.020 --> 01:16:14.239 of fitness specifically. if we gave these men 01:16:14.239 --> 01:16:16.060 and women the rest and recovery and therefore 01:16:16.060 --> 01:16:18.359 fully staffed fire departments, because young 01:16:18.359 --> 01:16:20.359 people actually want to do this job again, because 01:16:20.359 --> 01:16:21.880 we're showing that we're going to take care of 01:16:21.880 --> 01:16:25.079 them. Now you can, as you said, either put an 01:16:25.079 --> 01:16:27.539 actual bar, create a culture of fitness, whatever 01:16:27.539 --> 01:16:30.979 it is, but you can choose that top 10 % of a 01:16:30.979 --> 01:16:33.600 list and then maintain that culture. And therefore 01:16:33.600 --> 01:16:36.420 everything from, you know, depression and anxiety 01:16:36.420 --> 01:16:39.079 through to cardiac events is going to go down 01:16:39.079 --> 01:16:40.920 and the level of performance and our ability 01:16:40.920 --> 01:16:43.199 to do our job. is going to go through the roof 01:16:43.199 --> 01:16:46.060 again yeah that's what's interesting about all 01:16:46.060 --> 01:16:48.479 these conversations where you know wouldn't take 01:16:48.479 --> 01:16:50.439 much and i think the corporate world is actually 01:16:50.439 --> 01:16:53.100 doing a really good job of really recognizing 01:16:53.100 --> 01:16:56.260 and demonstrating these aren't expenses they're 01:16:56.260 --> 01:17:00.220 actually cost savings initiatives so if you could 01:17:00.220 --> 01:17:02.479 get past just the idea of it and actually be 01:17:02.479 --> 01:17:05.409 willing to to put this into place even on a trial 01:17:05.409 --> 01:17:08.489 basis and monitor the data uh it would pretty 01:17:08.489 --> 01:17:10.989 quickly i think whether it's sick leave or injury 01:17:10.989 --> 01:17:13.149 or however you want to kind of look at where 01:17:13.149 --> 01:17:15.590 the money is spent on the flip side of it it 01:17:15.590 --> 01:17:18.390 becomes evident real quick uh even from a money 01:17:18.390 --> 01:17:20.510 side the benefits of it that doesn't even take 01:17:20.510 --> 01:17:22.850 into account our ability to have a better quality 01:17:22.850 --> 01:17:25.010 of life to better serve our communities and all 01:17:25.010 --> 01:17:27.729 of that and it's it's interesting uh gordon graham 01:17:27.729 --> 01:17:30.569 i love listening to him talk and he he puts things 01:17:30.569 --> 01:17:33.420 in a way that's so simple he says hey if it's 01:17:33.420 --> 01:17:36.100 measurable it's manageable well all of this is 01:17:36.100 --> 01:17:38.800 measurable and all of it is manageable and what's 01:17:38.800 --> 01:17:41.199 predictable is preventable well james what is 01:17:41.199 --> 01:17:43.439 more predictable than the trends that we see 01:17:43.439 --> 01:17:46.619 in the fire service whether it's the the cardiac 01:17:46.619 --> 01:17:49.300 numbers the cancer numbers the suicide rates 01:17:49.300 --> 01:17:51.960 the obesity rates like year after year after 01:17:51.960 --> 01:17:55.180 year it's not just predictable it's it's it's 01:17:55.180 --> 01:17:58.000 already happening so how could we possibly prevent 01:17:58.000 --> 01:18:00.670 that well everything we're talking about let's 01:18:00.670 --> 01:18:03.069 look at you know let's look at physical activity 01:18:03.069 --> 01:18:05.170 let's look at nutrition let's look at sleep let's 01:18:05.170 --> 01:18:06.850 look at stress management let's look at all these 01:18:06.850 --> 01:18:10.609 things that we now know more than ever about 01:18:10.609 --> 01:18:12.689 how we can manage and mitigate and optimize people 01:18:12.689 --> 01:18:16.329 around all of this and um you know for whatever 01:18:16.329 --> 01:18:18.590 reason it's just very difficult and i think part 01:18:18.590 --> 01:18:21.229 of it too is you know we're very siloed i feel 01:18:21.229 --> 01:18:23.770 like we're very siloed in the fire service whether 01:18:23.770 --> 01:18:27.210 whether it's what we're talking about so mental 01:18:27.210 --> 01:18:29.510 health is over here and physical fitness is over 01:18:29.510 --> 01:18:33.189 here and sleep study is over here each of those 01:18:33.189 --> 01:18:35.710 are in their own kind of silos and then you know 01:18:35.710 --> 01:18:37.649 what part of the country do you live in or what 01:18:37.649 --> 01:18:39.890 you know type of department do you work for like 01:18:39.890 --> 01:18:43.130 it doesn't seem like or feel like we just have 01:18:43.130 --> 01:18:48.050 this one hub or central central place to find 01:18:48.050 --> 01:18:51.819 all of this stuff um you know I don't know if 01:18:51.819 --> 01:18:53.180 that's part of the problem, but it's definitely 01:18:53.180 --> 01:18:56.460 an observation I feel related to all of this. 01:18:56.680 --> 01:18:59.180 No, I mean, completely to the point where if 01:18:59.180 --> 01:19:01.119 we really just take a step back and hopefully 01:19:01.119 --> 01:19:03.239 this isn't the case where you work, but I've 01:19:03.239 --> 01:19:05.479 worked in places like Orange County, for example, 01:19:05.640 --> 01:19:08.680 where I've literally been on a call. I'm on a 01:19:08.680 --> 01:19:10.840 rescue EMS vehicle that time, you know, with 01:19:10.840 --> 01:19:14.840 fire gear, but no water. And there's a transformer 01:19:14.840 --> 01:19:17.140 fire that's about to light up an entire trailer 01:19:17.140 --> 01:19:19.689 park that's heavily, heavily wooded. and i'm 01:19:19.689 --> 01:19:22.189 just calling for an engine and i'm working for 01:19:22.189 --> 01:19:25.130 orange county orlando five which is the one that 01:19:25.130 --> 01:19:27.630 was right next to the pulse shooting i can see 01:19:27.630 --> 01:19:30.449 them and the dispatch is basically arguing with 01:19:30.449 --> 01:19:33.689 me about jurisdiction here herein lies the problem 01:19:33.689 --> 01:19:36.829 because my my you know engine would be the one 01:19:36.829 --> 01:19:39.109 in the jurisdiction but it's the far south south 01:19:39.109 --> 01:19:41.630 end of the first jew and orlando is like one 01:19:41.630 --> 01:19:44.079 block over And so this is the thing. You have 01:19:44.079 --> 01:19:46.560 FDs that won't even play nice together. You have 01:19:46.560 --> 01:19:50.000 FD and PD that won't interact. And then we have 01:19:50.000 --> 01:19:52.840 tragedies like Uvalde and Parkland and all these 01:19:52.840 --> 01:19:54.199 things. And it wasn't just that. But I mean, 01:19:54.199 --> 01:19:56.539 this breakdown in communication, these egos at 01:19:56.539 --> 01:19:59.340 the top can be devastating. They can cause lives, 01:19:59.420 --> 01:20:02.600 cause loss of life. So but this is, I think, 01:20:02.600 --> 01:20:04.640 what is missing in the fire service is humility. 01:20:05.619 --> 01:20:07.539 And then this happened. There are some great, 01:20:07.600 --> 01:20:10.380 great people doing this. But going to. South 01:20:10.380 --> 01:20:13.420 Metro, going to Boynton Beach, going to whoever 01:20:13.420 --> 01:20:15.939 is doing something, Pasco County. Oh, how did 01:20:15.939 --> 01:20:19.819 you go to 2472? I've been blown away how these 01:20:19.819 --> 01:20:22.699 departments, for example, in this workweek conversation 01:20:22.699 --> 01:20:25.699 that have gone to it, have bent over backwards 01:20:25.699 --> 01:20:28.380 over and over and over and over again to help 01:20:28.380 --> 01:20:30.760 other departments learn how they did it so they 01:20:30.760 --> 01:20:33.199 can apply it. That is actually brotherhood and 01:20:33.199 --> 01:20:36.409 sisterhood. But it's the egos that get in the 01:20:36.409 --> 01:20:38.170 way. Oh, well, ours is the best way. We don't 01:20:38.170 --> 01:20:40.529 listen to county or city or whatever. And so 01:20:40.529 --> 01:20:43.250 I think we've created the silos out of arrogance. 01:20:43.329 --> 01:20:45.609 And we do need to drop those walls because we 01:20:45.609 --> 01:20:48.489 are the American fire service collectively. And 01:20:48.489 --> 01:20:51.029 every, you know, almost every department in this 01:20:51.029 --> 01:20:53.289 country is going to figure something out that's 01:20:53.289 --> 01:20:54.970 going to be really the best way of doing it, 01:20:54.970 --> 01:20:57.029 whether it's regionally or nationally. So you 01:20:57.029 --> 01:20:59.210 don't have to reinvent the wheel. Just find who's 01:20:59.210 --> 01:21:01.779 doing it really well. and knowledge share and 01:21:01.779 --> 01:21:04.020 then as they say the rising tide lifts all ships 01:21:04.020 --> 01:21:07.979 yeah no for sure and we kind of joke with ourselves 01:21:07.979 --> 01:21:10.880 you know 200 years of tradition unimpeded by 01:21:10.880 --> 01:21:13.800 progress right and it is tough i get it it's 01:21:13.800 --> 01:21:16.319 tough to to move the needle beyond some of the 01:21:16.319 --> 01:21:18.439 tradition or the way we've always done it but 01:21:18.439 --> 01:21:21.279 now more than ever especially with the new young 01:21:21.279 --> 01:21:24.079 people coming into the fire service we just have 01:21:24.079 --> 01:21:27.779 more opportunity than we ever have to shape the 01:21:27.779 --> 01:21:29.840 future of the fire service. And if we can just 01:21:29.840 --> 01:21:33.100 tap into this new energy that's coming in and 01:21:33.100 --> 01:21:35.939 people in the space that are really thought leaders 01:21:35.939 --> 01:21:38.399 around a lot of these issues, yourself being 01:21:38.399 --> 01:21:42.100 an example, I do believe that we have this opportunity 01:21:42.100 --> 01:21:46.000 to really make progress maybe more in the next 01:21:46.000 --> 01:21:49.399 10 years than we have in the last 50. I've said 01:21:49.399 --> 01:21:51.819 this a few times. Stop me if I said it to you 01:21:51.819 --> 01:21:53.420 already, but I don't think I did in this conversation. 01:21:54.640 --> 01:21:56.460 I was talking to someone the other day and then 01:21:56.460 --> 01:21:58.119 law enforcement and I was saying, you know, we 01:21:58.119 --> 01:22:00.420 have stood on the shoulders of giants. You know, 01:22:00.500 --> 01:22:03.119 you're a cop and your body armor and your weapons 01:22:03.119 --> 01:22:05.800 and your tactics are from the forefathers. I 01:22:05.800 --> 01:22:08.899 wore SCBAs and bunker gear and, you know, used 01:22:08.899 --> 01:22:12.319 MAD devices and, you know, EpiPens. And this 01:22:12.319 --> 01:22:14.520 was all other people's innovation. I just got 01:22:14.520 --> 01:22:17.960 to use it. Where our, yours and my generation 01:22:17.960 --> 01:22:20.600 can really be innovators is the health of the 01:22:20.600 --> 01:22:23.939 human being. You know, the Halligan is good. 01:22:24.020 --> 01:22:27.439 Stop trying to add bits onto it. It's fine. But 01:22:27.439 --> 01:22:29.979 let's get together and say, you know, let's create 01:22:29.979 --> 01:22:31.880 a healthy workforce. Because as you mentioned, 01:22:31.939 --> 01:22:33.560 your son is thinking about going to the fire 01:22:33.560 --> 01:22:36.800 service. A lot of people have said this a lot 01:22:36.800 --> 01:22:40.420 recently. It used to be back in the day that 01:22:40.420 --> 01:22:42.560 fathers would be like best job in the world and 01:22:42.560 --> 01:22:45.039 their kids would go into the fire service. Now 01:22:45.039 --> 01:22:47.739 we're hearing the opposite. I don't want my child 01:22:47.739 --> 01:22:49.840 to go in the fire service. And it's not the calling. 01:22:49.899 --> 01:22:52.659 It's not the job. It's the environment. It's, 01:22:52.659 --> 01:22:54.159 you know, whether it's the toxic environment, 01:22:54.279 --> 01:22:56.380 a lack of support, whether it's the insane work 01:22:56.380 --> 01:22:58.680 weeks in the understaffed departments that's 01:22:58.680 --> 01:23:01.460 requiring mandatory overtime all the time. You 01:23:01.460 --> 01:23:02.640 know, a lot of these kids are saying, well, I 01:23:02.640 --> 01:23:04.260 don't want to do that because dad was never home. 01:23:04.939 --> 01:23:07.560 You know, so we can fix that. Like you said, 01:23:07.640 --> 01:23:10.000 there are things you can't fix. You know, if 01:23:10.000 --> 01:23:12.819 a plane drops out the sky and lands in a neighborhood, 01:23:13.060 --> 01:23:16.090 that's out of our control. But we can control 01:23:16.090 --> 01:23:18.470 when people go to work. We can control how many 01:23:18.470 --> 01:23:20.289 people want to work for our department tests. 01:23:20.390 --> 01:23:22.750 We can control fitness standards. We can control 01:23:22.750 --> 01:23:25.270 whether they have, you know, zero barrier to 01:23:25.270 --> 01:23:27.750 entry to mental health practitioners. Those are 01:23:27.750 --> 01:23:30.909 actionable things that would save lives. So this 01:23:30.909 --> 01:23:32.869 is where I feel that there needs to be a revolution. 01:23:33.329 --> 01:23:35.710 It's a revolution of wellness and performance 01:23:35.710 --> 01:23:37.750 because this is, you know, I'll get your take 01:23:37.750 --> 01:23:41.430 on this now. I have seen that the national conversation 01:23:41.430 --> 01:23:45.560 when it comes to. firefighter fitness isn't how 01:23:45.560 --> 01:23:47.760 can we squeeze out a high level of performance 01:23:47.760 --> 01:23:50.300 in a high rise pyre? It's just, well, how can 01:23:50.300 --> 01:23:52.079 we get them to eat a bowl of oatmeal and not 01:23:52.079 --> 01:23:53.640 die of a heart attack? Maybe we'll walk around 01:23:53.640 --> 01:23:57.079 the building twice. So we on the performance 01:23:57.079 --> 01:24:01.600 point have such a huge opportunity to go from, 01:24:01.600 --> 01:24:04.819 you know, surviving the job air quotes to actually 01:24:04.819 --> 01:24:07.760 thriving and performing where that group of four 01:24:07.760 --> 01:24:10.560 that gets off the rig, you know, that those 2025 01:24:10.560 --> 01:24:13.500 stories with a high rise strip. is going to be 01:24:13.500 --> 01:24:15.340 completely manageable. And they're still then 01:24:15.340 --> 01:24:17.539 going to have the energy to go in, do a search 01:24:17.539 --> 01:24:21.680 and drag someone out. Yeah, no, 100%. And again, 01:24:21.760 --> 01:24:24.359 that comes back to this whole idea about being 01:24:24.359 --> 01:24:26.960 intentional about how we support our firefighters. 01:24:28.079 --> 01:24:30.020 You know, we talked about making sure we're not 01:24:30.020 --> 01:24:32.340 lowering standards, but also being willing to 01:24:32.340 --> 01:24:35.060 meet people where they are and providing them 01:24:35.060 --> 01:24:38.479 resources in making those improvements and getting 01:24:38.479 --> 01:24:42.260 to where they can meet those standards. I'm really 01:24:42.260 --> 01:24:45.260 proud to be part of Crackle Magazine. I'm the 01:24:45.260 --> 01:24:47.359 executive fitness advisor for the magazine. I 01:24:47.359 --> 01:24:49.180 think I know someone that looked just like you 01:24:49.180 --> 01:24:53.199 that was maybe on a cover once upon a time. They 01:24:53.199 --> 01:24:55.180 must have been really struggling for people that 01:24:55.180 --> 01:24:58.479 month. He was very handsome, very, very, very 01:24:58.479 --> 01:25:03.520 good resemblance, as I recall. uh corey pern 01:25:03.520 --> 01:25:05.279 and that whole team over there like they have 01:25:05.279 --> 01:25:08.600 all the same vision and and thought that we do 01:25:08.600 --> 01:25:11.779 in terms of uh you know how do we take care of 01:25:11.779 --> 01:25:13.619 the whole firefighter like how do we take care 01:25:13.619 --> 01:25:16.350 of the whole firefighter so that when the bell 01:25:16.350 --> 01:25:19.289 hits, they're at their best. And we could talk 01:25:19.289 --> 01:25:22.430 all day about fitness and nutrition and sleep 01:25:22.430 --> 01:25:24.489 and stress. And then, well, where does relationships 01:25:24.489 --> 01:25:26.149 come into that? Where does finances come into 01:25:26.149 --> 01:25:29.869 that? It's all connected, James. And again, coming 01:25:29.869 --> 01:25:32.130 back to Gordon Graham, if it's measurable, it's 01:25:32.130 --> 01:25:34.109 manageable. If it's predictable, it's preventable. 01:25:34.649 --> 01:25:38.149 How do we pool our resources? How do we bring 01:25:38.149 --> 01:25:41.050 these thought leaders together in a way that 01:25:41.050 --> 01:25:44.109 presents or provides something that is actionable? 01:25:44.840 --> 01:25:47.800 to firefighters everywhere. And again, keep coming 01:25:47.800 --> 01:25:50.399 back to the Wellness Fitness Initiative. That 01:25:50.399 --> 01:25:53.960 is an IFF, IFC collaboration. I think that's 01:25:53.960 --> 01:25:56.380 a great opportunity. Again, I'm really proud 01:25:56.380 --> 01:25:58.319 of the work that Krakow Magazine is doing to 01:25:58.319 --> 01:26:02.199 provide a regular publication that, oh, what 01:26:02.199 --> 01:26:04.140 do you want to read about? What do you want to 01:26:04.140 --> 01:26:07.729 learn about? Here's 20 articles that... written 01:26:07.729 --> 01:26:09.970 by firefighters or someone very close to the 01:26:09.970 --> 01:26:12.529 fire service that can give you something actionable 01:26:12.529 --> 01:26:15.829 in a really quick read you know and i was at 01:26:15.829 --> 01:26:20.229 fdic uh this last year that the big fire service 01:26:20.229 --> 01:26:22.529 trade show and again just talking to all these 01:26:22.529 --> 01:26:24.529 folks that are that are thought leaders in the 01:26:24.529 --> 01:26:27.010 space or in the fire service and and you know 01:26:27.500 --> 01:26:29.680 you have the formal classes during the day, but 01:26:29.680 --> 01:26:31.460 the really interesting conversations happen at 01:26:31.460 --> 01:26:33.020 dinner when you're just sitting down talking 01:26:33.020 --> 01:26:35.659 to someone informally and the ideas that they 01:26:35.659 --> 01:26:38.199 have and the commitment and the dedication they 01:26:38.199 --> 01:26:39.739 have to moving the needle on all this stuff. 01:26:39.939 --> 01:26:42.420 So, you know, it's, man, I just, I feel like 01:26:42.420 --> 01:26:45.060 we're so close. I feel like we're on this precipice 01:26:45.060 --> 01:26:48.279 of really breaking through on a lot of it. But 01:26:48.279 --> 01:26:50.619 man, it sure feels like it's moving slow. It 01:26:50.619 --> 01:26:53.340 sure feels like it takes longer than it should. 01:26:53.520 --> 01:26:57.180 But when I look at my son and I imagine... the 01:26:57.180 --> 01:26:59.539 future fire service for him, I am optimistic. 01:27:00.239 --> 01:27:03.100 See, I'm 100%. People, you know, I don't know 01:27:03.100 --> 01:27:05.600 if it comes across, but I call myself an angry 01:27:05.600 --> 01:27:07.960 optimist. Like, I believe 100 % it's going to 01:27:07.960 --> 01:27:09.680 get better, but we might have to punch some people 01:27:09.680 --> 01:27:13.100 in the face to get there. But it's true that 01:27:13.100 --> 01:27:15.420 there is a wellness revolution just on the work 01:27:15.420 --> 01:27:17.439 week alone. You know, in Florida, it's happened. 01:27:17.460 --> 01:27:19.840 We're up to like 10 departments now in less than 01:27:19.840 --> 01:27:23.539 two years that have made this change. There's 01:27:23.539 --> 01:27:25.119 also opposition. And I'll give you a perfect 01:27:25.119 --> 01:27:27.140 example. And I'm more than happy to repeat this 01:27:27.140 --> 01:27:28.859 a thousand times because it needs to be pulled 01:27:28.859 --> 01:27:32.140 out into the daylight. The Florida Firefighter 01:27:32.140 --> 01:27:35.180 Chiefs, Florida, yeah, Florida Firefighter Chiefs 01:27:35.180 --> 01:27:38.279 Association. I think I've got that right. They 01:27:38.279 --> 01:27:41.100 sent out an email amongst themselves when Danny 01:27:41.100 --> 01:27:43.460 Alvarez put this bill together recommending a 01:27:43.460 --> 01:27:46.159 42 hour work week for all Florida firefighters 01:27:46.159 --> 01:27:48.979 saying that they oppose the bill. Now, these 01:27:48.979 --> 01:27:51.140 are chiefs that work 40 hours and go home at 01:27:51.140 --> 01:27:53.430 five o 'clock every day. And we're in a crisis 01:27:53.430 --> 01:27:56.770 in this state where a lot of our firefighters 01:27:56.770 --> 01:27:59.449 truly are working eight -hour weeks with mandatory 01:27:59.449 --> 01:28:03.069 overtime over and over and over again. So that 01:28:03.069 --> 01:28:05.569 shows you that there is resistance. And I will 01:28:05.569 --> 01:28:07.970 call it what it is. It's cowardice. It's not 01:28:07.970 --> 01:28:10.930 being willing to actually advocate for your people 01:28:10.930 --> 01:28:13.050 and having that conversation, just like you alluded 01:28:13.050 --> 01:28:15.890 to, that ultimately will make you the hero because 01:28:15.890 --> 01:28:18.250 you will save your city and county money downstream. 01:28:19.100 --> 01:28:20.640 But of course, you've got to go to them and say, 01:28:20.680 --> 01:28:23.159 well, yes, extra bodies will take X amount of 01:28:23.159 --> 01:28:26.119 money over the next two, three years. And that's 01:28:26.119 --> 01:28:29.640 where leadership comes in. So putting this to 01:28:29.640 --> 01:28:32.680 you now, we're not just talking about the work 01:28:32.680 --> 01:28:36.739 week, the fitness training and resources and 01:28:36.739 --> 01:28:39.890 all the other things. Not only are they, which 01:28:39.890 --> 01:28:41.710 is important to me, going to actually save lives 01:28:41.710 --> 01:28:43.550 and improve performance within the men and women 01:28:43.550 --> 01:28:46.149 that we love, but also it is going to save the 01:28:46.149 --> 01:28:48.189 taxpayer a lot of money and give a much higher 01:28:48.189 --> 01:28:49.989 delivery of service when they're having their 01:28:49.989 --> 01:28:53.689 worst day. How do we navigate that cowardice, 01:28:53.729 --> 01:28:56.090 the person who's only concerned about the budget 01:28:56.090 --> 01:28:58.189 year so they can look good or their promotional 01:28:58.189 --> 01:29:02.409 opportunity and actually move this forward so 01:29:02.409 --> 01:29:04.789 that we do what's best for the entire profession? 01:29:06.159 --> 01:29:09.760 So I have two thoughts on that. One is the way 01:29:09.760 --> 01:29:13.180 I look at some of this is, you know, any department 01:29:13.180 --> 01:29:16.899 that's really in a that's underfunded, under 01:29:16.899 --> 01:29:20.920 resourced, overworked. You know, how is that 01:29:20.920 --> 01:29:23.479 different than in any kind of an MCI? You know, 01:29:23.479 --> 01:29:26.600 if we declare an organizational MCI, which simply 01:29:26.600 --> 01:29:30.000 means the needs of the organization far exceed 01:29:30.000 --> 01:29:32.920 the resources available. And now I'm going to 01:29:32.920 --> 01:29:35.859 tap into this idea of courage that you're. talking 01:29:35.859 --> 01:29:39.520 to what if and again there's different leadership 01:29:39.520 --> 01:29:42.439 entities in an organization in my experience 01:29:42.439 --> 01:29:46.239 there's kind of three pathways to to seek change 01:29:46.239 --> 01:29:48.880 in an organization one is the fire department 01:29:48.880 --> 01:29:52.140 administration the other is the the labor group 01:29:52.140 --> 01:29:54.659 and the labor leadership and i also feel like 01:29:54.659 --> 01:29:56.659 there's a really powerful entity right in the 01:29:56.659 --> 01:29:58.920 middle in our department it's our safety committee 01:29:58.920 --> 01:30:02.460 so anything that's identified or or comes forward 01:30:02.460 --> 01:30:06.069 as a safety issue it's a it's a mandatory collaboration 01:30:06.069 --> 01:30:09.170 between the labor group and the management group. 01:30:09.350 --> 01:30:13.550 And over 30 years in my career, you can only 01:30:13.550 --> 01:30:16.710 avoid the right thing for so long. And any issue 01:30:16.710 --> 01:30:20.210 that's ever, it goes to admin, it gets denied, 01:30:20.329 --> 01:30:22.569 it goes to labor, it gets denied for whatever 01:30:22.569 --> 01:30:24.409 reason. But as soon as it comes to the safety 01:30:24.409 --> 01:30:27.369 committee and it's on the docket, two sets of 01:30:27.369 --> 01:30:31.989 bunker gear, extractor washers, all these things 01:30:31.989 --> 01:30:34.229 that kind of coming back, like you said, we didn't 01:30:34.229 --> 01:30:36.439 have it. back in my day, but we have all of it 01:30:36.439 --> 01:30:39.979 now. We have PFAS free gear now. We just got, 01:30:40.079 --> 01:30:42.060 every one of our members just got issued a set 01:30:42.060 --> 01:30:45.239 of PFAS free gear. So, you know, does it take 01:30:45.239 --> 01:30:48.199 30 years sometimes to cross some of this? Yes. 01:30:48.319 --> 01:30:52.340 But what I'm trying to express is why wouldn't 01:30:52.340 --> 01:30:55.800 we go through a triage exercise? in our organizations 01:30:55.800 --> 01:30:58.340 take take your leadership teams in your department 01:30:58.340 --> 01:31:01.640 have labor and management representation go up 01:31:01.640 --> 01:31:04.359 to the white board and what are our red patients 01:31:04.359 --> 01:31:07.979 well obviously safety and health is number one 01:31:07.979 --> 01:31:10.960 well where where are the threats to our safety 01:31:10.960 --> 01:31:13.760 and health and what would it cost to address 01:31:13.760 --> 01:31:17.380 those and spend the money and then go back to 01:31:17.380 --> 01:31:22.060 the the politicians and say hey we're fully funding 01:31:22.060 --> 01:31:26.420 all of this Unfortunately, with our current budget, 01:31:26.720 --> 01:31:29.359 we're going to have to shut down a station or 01:31:29.359 --> 01:31:30.720 we're going to have to reduce the calls we go 01:31:30.720 --> 01:31:34.159 on or do something different. And again, you 01:31:34.159 --> 01:31:36.800 talk about courage. We had a, I think it was 01:31:36.800 --> 01:31:38.500 the King County Sheriff stood in front of the 01:31:38.500 --> 01:31:42.100 news about a month ago. They underwent all these 01:31:42.100 --> 01:31:44.060 budget cuts and she said in front of everyone, 01:31:44.319 --> 01:31:48.380 we have done more with less for decades. Now 01:31:48.380 --> 01:31:52.699 we're doing less with less and you will see it. 01:31:52.989 --> 01:31:55.630 and you will feel it and you will not like it 01:31:55.630 --> 01:31:59.550 but that is what we're forced to do so on one 01:31:59.550 --> 01:32:02.210 hand of this conversation i'm talking about triage 01:32:02.210 --> 01:32:05.630 and i'm talking about an organizational mci and 01:32:05.630 --> 01:32:10.289 i'm talking about absolutely funding the the 01:32:10.289 --> 01:32:13.770 most important initiatives which relate specifically 01:32:13.770 --> 01:32:15.949 to the health and wellness of our people because 01:32:15.949 --> 01:32:18.430 at the end of the day if there's no firefighters 01:32:18.430 --> 01:32:20.449 who's gonna who's gonna do the work right like 01:32:20.449 --> 01:32:23.779 that's i mean it's not i don't think it's a huge 01:32:23.779 --> 01:32:26.079 leap to really recognize although it is a mindset 01:32:26.079 --> 01:32:28.560 change and then on the on the flip side of that 01:32:28.560 --> 01:32:31.479 i feel like we can really build these things 01:32:31.479 --> 01:32:33.979 out right so we have recruit academy we have 01:32:33.979 --> 01:32:36.359 probation we have apprenticeship programs we 01:32:36.359 --> 01:32:39.500 have officer development programs we have chief 01:32:39.500 --> 01:32:41.899 officer development programs so now not only 01:32:41.899 --> 01:32:44.720 are we instituting health and safety initiatives 01:32:44.720 --> 01:32:47.579 for healthy firefighters we're actually training 01:32:47.579 --> 01:32:51.100 them objectively and adequately to do the jobs 01:32:51.100 --> 01:32:54.289 that we're asking them to do and so now and kind 01:32:54.289 --> 01:32:56.850 of tying this all the way back to how we support 01:32:56.850 --> 01:33:00.189 athletes and how we support sports teams like 01:33:00.189 --> 01:33:03.170 this is what they do they they look at what the 01:33:03.170 --> 01:33:05.949 athlete needs to perform at a high level they 01:33:05.949 --> 01:33:08.810 put playbooks in place they assign positions 01:33:08.810 --> 01:33:10.909 on the field that everyone knows exactly what's 01:33:10.909 --> 01:33:13.229 expected of them and they're fully supported 01:33:13.229 --> 01:33:17.329 in executing on that at a high level Beautiful. 01:33:17.329 --> 01:33:19.090 Love it. I haven't heard it put that way before, 01:33:19.170 --> 01:33:20.789 but I think that's great. And going back to the 01:33:20.789 --> 01:33:24.569 Kings County or King County, you said it was 01:33:24.569 --> 01:33:26.130 the fire chief that made that speech? I think 01:33:26.130 --> 01:33:30.449 it was the police chief, the deputy sheriff or 01:33:30.449 --> 01:33:32.909 the sheriff for King County Sheriff's Office. 01:33:32.970 --> 01:33:34.770 I think I remember seeing that and I was blown 01:33:34.770 --> 01:33:36.529 away because, I mean, this is it, you know, the 01:33:36.529 --> 01:33:39.609 public. And I've said this, I do a presentation 01:33:39.609 --> 01:33:42.640 very, very. infrequently because i don't like 01:33:42.640 --> 01:33:44.800 public speaking but on occasion when it's worth 01:33:44.800 --> 01:33:48.000 it i'll go out there and talk um and when we're 01:33:48.000 --> 01:33:49.899 talking about the whole recruitment crisis i've 01:33:49.899 --> 01:33:51.859 got a slide and i said who's responsible it's 01:33:51.859 --> 01:33:53.800 a picture of a ladder and the whole point is 01:33:53.800 --> 01:33:56.720 all of us every rung of the ladder and we have 01:33:56.720 --> 01:33:59.479 done a terrible job as a profession of educating 01:33:59.479 --> 01:34:02.859 the people on what we do and so they think the 01:34:02.859 --> 01:34:05.300 general public that everything's fine It's only 01:34:05.300 --> 01:34:07.560 when they call 911 because their kid's choking 01:34:07.560 --> 01:34:09.539 and the rig that should have been available has 01:34:09.539 --> 01:34:11.899 been browned out or they're on some, you know, 01:34:11.920 --> 01:34:14.000 inter -facility transport because they got sold 01:34:14.000 --> 01:34:16.260 out to a hospital instead of actually being available 01:34:16.260 --> 01:34:19.640 for a 911 call. And then the kid dies. And now 01:34:19.640 --> 01:34:21.100 all of a sudden everyone's paying attention, 01:34:21.180 --> 01:34:24.479 but it's too late then. So I think that's, that's 01:34:24.479 --> 01:34:26.640 amazing that they, I remember that speech and 01:34:26.640 --> 01:34:28.300 it's absolutely spot on. Like you got to let 01:34:28.300 --> 01:34:31.460 people know. And I think that the masses, you 01:34:31.460 --> 01:34:33.340 know, if there's a groundswell of understanding 01:34:33.340 --> 01:34:37.100 of the public, and I said this many times, if 01:34:37.100 --> 01:34:39.079 we have this huge recruitment crisis and you 01:34:39.079 --> 01:34:41.800 are, for example, where I live, this woefully 01:34:41.800 --> 01:34:44.840 understaffed and they are taking anyone, 18 and 01:34:44.840 --> 01:34:48.659 a heartbeat at the moment, and the taxpayer is 01:34:48.659 --> 01:34:53.359 paying the same tax, where's the rebates? You've 01:34:53.359 --> 01:34:55.520 given me a much lesser service. I've given you 01:34:55.520 --> 01:34:58.250 the same amount of tax money every year. And 01:34:58.250 --> 01:35:00.770 you put that into a corporate space. If you work 01:35:00.770 --> 01:35:03.350 for Best Buy and no one wants to work for Best 01:35:03.350 --> 01:35:07.050 Buy and the products that are coming out are 01:35:07.050 --> 01:35:09.630 breaking within two weeks, would you still be 01:35:09.630 --> 01:35:12.810 in charge of Best Buy? Absolutely, you wouldn't. 01:35:12.810 --> 01:35:16.630 No way in hell. But in this profession, you can 01:35:16.630 --> 01:35:18.729 just do what you want. And really, there's no 01:35:18.729 --> 01:35:21.390 checks and balances. So when people understand 01:35:21.390 --> 01:35:23.470 that the detrimental element of everything that 01:35:23.470 --> 01:35:26.199 we've discussed the last 90 minutes. It will 01:35:26.199 --> 01:35:28.119 then empower the voters to be like, well, yeah, 01:35:28.159 --> 01:35:30.100 if they need extra money up front so that we 01:35:30.100 --> 01:35:31.619 can get everything back to where it needs to 01:35:31.619 --> 01:35:34.239 be, and then you're going to save us money, which 01:35:34.239 --> 01:35:37.220 can then put in fitness equipment and new engines 01:35:37.220 --> 01:35:40.500 and new staffing and new stations. And absolutely, 01:35:40.699 --> 01:35:43.020 we're all in. Now we finally understand why you 01:35:43.020 --> 01:35:46.340 need the money. But the TV just says that you're 01:35:46.340 --> 01:35:48.100 a greedy firefighter as you sit around all day 01:35:48.100 --> 01:35:51.560 and then you demand higher wages. So every single 01:35:51.560 --> 01:35:53.479 rung of that ladder has to be a part of this 01:35:53.479 --> 01:35:58.119 conversation. 100%. 100 all right well shifting 01:35:58.119 --> 01:36:00.960 to what you are doing on the side then so talk 01:36:00.960 --> 01:36:04.140 to me about why you create attack fit and then 01:36:04.140 --> 01:36:06.680 let's kind of unpack all the different things 01:36:06.680 --> 01:36:09.420 that people can find within that um that incredible 01:36:09.420 --> 01:36:12.920 business that you've created yeah so my company 01:36:12.920 --> 01:36:15.880 is called firefighter peak performance and it 01:36:15.880 --> 01:36:18.920 goes back to 2010 it was when i first started 01:36:18.920 --> 01:36:21.399 getting into tactical fitness and i and i mentioned 01:36:21.399 --> 01:36:24.060 mentioned the mentorship i had my whole youth 01:36:24.060 --> 01:36:26.770 so my dad I mentioned Mark Verstegen. I mentioned 01:36:26.770 --> 01:36:30.770 Scott Sonnen. So I've just been enamored with 01:36:30.770 --> 01:36:33.310 fitness and wellness and all of that my entire 01:36:33.310 --> 01:36:37.649 life. Well, unfortunately for me, and ironically, 01:36:37.789 --> 01:36:42.079 I guess, I loved all of that. on one side so 01:36:42.079 --> 01:36:45.300 much but my body unfortunately uh i just saw 01:36:45.300 --> 01:36:47.960 a doctor recently and i've had orthopedic issues 01:36:47.960 --> 01:36:50.199 my whole life i was born with hip dysplasia i 01:36:50.199 --> 01:36:53.000 have i've had 10 surgeries my my joint health 01:36:53.000 --> 01:36:55.659 my whole life has not been great and the doctor 01:36:56.170 --> 01:36:59.090 uh said to me well some people are born with 01:36:59.090 --> 01:37:02.149 really beautiful michelin high performance tires 01:37:02.149 --> 01:37:04.890 and some people are born as retreads and he said 01:37:04.890 --> 01:37:07.590 i'm just sorry to inform you that the genetic 01:37:07.590 --> 01:37:10.869 uh cards you were dealt uh are more along that 01:37:10.869 --> 01:37:15.649 line of the retread so so in my early 30s i i 01:37:15.649 --> 01:37:18.149 mean i went through a season where i was in agonizing 01:37:18.149 --> 01:37:22.350 pain uh back pain hip pain uh to the point where 01:37:22.350 --> 01:37:24.670 i was really worried about being able to continue 01:37:24.670 --> 01:37:27.329 doing my job as a firefighter so i just did this 01:37:27.329 --> 01:37:29.810 deep dive and it james all it was was researching 01:37:29.810 --> 01:37:32.270 everything we're already talking about like where 01:37:32.270 --> 01:37:35.130 does you know conventional fitness and functional 01:37:35.130 --> 01:37:37.970 fitness and tactical fitness fit into the big 01:37:37.970 --> 01:37:40.630 picture where does this whole idea of mobility 01:37:40.630 --> 01:37:43.350 and flexibility and active recovery fit into 01:37:43.350 --> 01:37:45.970 this where does this whole idea of managing intensity 01:37:45.970 --> 01:37:49.289 not only in a single workout but over a period 01:37:49.289 --> 01:37:52.890 of time so so i did this deep dive And over a 01:37:52.890 --> 01:37:54.850 period of probably 10 years, I was really immersed 01:37:54.850 --> 01:37:58.229 in my own self -study for selfish reasons to 01:37:58.229 --> 01:38:00.630 fix my own body and to feel better and to perform 01:38:00.630 --> 01:38:03.630 better. And so then as this all kind of came 01:38:03.630 --> 01:38:08.710 together, with the influence of others and as 01:38:08.710 --> 01:38:11.310 questions came up and just the good fortune I 01:38:11.310 --> 01:38:14.329 had to be in positions of leadership or education 01:38:14.329 --> 01:38:17.590 that I was in to share this sort of information, 01:38:17.810 --> 01:38:19.670 I was sharing it. I've been sharing it locally 01:38:19.670 --> 01:38:22.789 for... very long time and and now i'm highly 01:38:22.789 --> 01:38:25.510 motivated really in a pay it forward mindset 01:38:25.510 --> 01:38:28.510 to share it more globally so that's where firefighter 01:38:28.510 --> 01:38:31.529 peak performance comes in it's it's my goal really 01:38:31.529 --> 01:38:34.050 to to support firefighters in all the ways that 01:38:34.050 --> 01:38:37.149 we're talking about i want to kind of collate 01:38:37.149 --> 01:38:40.449 and present and package information to firefighters 01:38:40.449 --> 01:38:43.609 in ways that are easy to understand and accessible 01:38:43.609 --> 01:38:45.930 and actionable so that's kind of that's kind 01:38:45.930 --> 01:38:49.020 of where i'm at right now on my journey and And 01:38:49.020 --> 01:38:51.000 Firefighter Peak Performance, more specifically 01:38:51.000 --> 01:38:54.300 over the last two years, has been something I've 01:38:54.300 --> 01:38:56.479 really spent a lot of time on, knowing that I 01:38:56.479 --> 01:38:58.779 plan to retire from the fire service next year. 01:38:58.899 --> 01:39:01.779 And my dream is to really do this Firefighter 01:39:01.779 --> 01:39:04.619 Peak Performance gig full time or full time -ish 01:39:04.619 --> 01:39:07.920 as a way to stay connected to the fire service 01:39:07.920 --> 01:39:10.279 in a way that I hope is meaningful and helpful. 01:39:11.060 --> 01:39:13.100 Well, you mentioned the kind of baseline tests 01:39:13.100 --> 01:39:15.640 with the sandbags. What about, you know, what 01:39:15.640 --> 01:39:17.560 are all the other programs and elements that 01:39:17.560 --> 01:39:20.630 people can find there? So right now, and again, 01:39:21.600 --> 01:39:24.840 i'm still learning the whole uh kind of business 01:39:24.840 --> 01:39:27.079 and marketing and just all the all the ways it 01:39:27.079 --> 01:39:29.760 takes to effectively provide resources for folks 01:39:29.760 --> 01:39:32.439 but the four things that i'm trying to do right 01:39:32.439 --> 01:39:35.060 now in the short term are i've got what's called 01:39:35.060 --> 01:39:36.819 the firefighters guide to tactical fitness so 01:39:36.819 --> 01:39:40.300 it's just a real quick easy download uh it kind 01:39:40.300 --> 01:39:42.020 of goes into what we've talked about in terms 01:39:42.020 --> 01:39:44.920 of kind of defining and differentiating between 01:39:44.920 --> 01:39:46.699 different approaches to fitness and i've got 01:39:46.699 --> 01:39:49.560 a really simple four -day training cycle that 01:39:49.560 --> 01:39:52.439 on one side introduces this tactical fitness 01:39:52.439 --> 01:39:55.140 assessment that we've talked about in the context 01:39:55.140 --> 01:39:57.739 of a more holistic training cycle where there's 01:39:57.739 --> 01:40:01.199 a a priming day a moderate intensity day the 01:40:01.199 --> 01:40:03.979 test day and then a recovery to to come back 01:40:03.979 --> 01:40:06.739 to not just kick your ass but hey let's let's 01:40:06.739 --> 01:40:09.199 ramp up to this peak performance day and let's 01:40:09.199 --> 01:40:12.420 fully recover from it so that's presented in 01:40:12.420 --> 01:40:14.739 the in the firefighters guide to tactical fitness 01:40:14.739 --> 01:40:18.760 pdf download i've got uh what i'm calling the 01:40:18.760 --> 01:40:22.960 firefighter workouts playlist and as i mentioned 01:40:22.960 --> 01:40:26.180 i work closely with crackle magazine and i've 01:40:26.180 --> 01:40:30.000 done a workout of for each issue and and i've 01:40:30.000 --> 01:40:32.220 provided firefighter specific workouts through 01:40:32.220 --> 01:40:34.800 the magazine so i've got this playlist of these 01:40:34.800 --> 01:40:37.460 different firefighter tactical fitness workouts 01:40:37.460 --> 01:40:40.699 they can be performed at moderate intensity they 01:40:40.699 --> 01:40:43.279 can be performed at high intensity there's two 01:40:43.279 --> 01:40:47.520 dedicated recovery active recovery days so for 01:40:47.520 --> 01:40:50.079 any firefighter whether you prefer a workout 01:40:50.079 --> 01:40:52.319 of the day whether you want to incorporate that 01:40:52.319 --> 01:40:55.159 into a program you're already doing or if you 01:40:55.159 --> 01:40:57.560 want to build your own progressive training programs 01:40:57.560 --> 01:41:01.100 that's a free resource that i'm making available 01:41:01.100 --> 01:41:04.399 on my website and then you also have free membership 01:41:04.399 --> 01:41:06.359 to the firefighter peak performance community 01:41:06.359 --> 01:41:09.880 as part of that as well and then the firefighter 01:41:09.880 --> 01:41:12.960 tactical fitness primer is a very inexpensive 01:41:13.869 --> 01:41:16.350 four -week training program that again, kind 01:41:16.350 --> 01:41:18.350 of expands on these ideas we're talking about 01:41:18.350 --> 01:41:21.390 in terms of progressive tactical fitness for 01:41:21.390 --> 01:41:24.109 firefighters. There's a kind of a pre -test in 01:41:24.109 --> 01:41:26.109 that first week. And then there's the opportunity 01:41:26.109 --> 01:41:29.069 to reevaluate your fitness at the end and kind 01:41:29.069 --> 01:41:33.470 of challenging you to evaluate your things that 01:41:33.470 --> 01:41:35.569 are strengths for you. And then maybe even look 01:41:35.569 --> 01:41:37.250 at some limitations you might have along the 01:41:37.250 --> 01:41:41.359 way. And then last but not least. i'm also offering 01:41:41.359 --> 01:41:44.520 uh performance coaching on a more one -on -one 01:41:44.520 --> 01:41:47.720 custom level so i'm just i'm trying to meet people 01:41:47.720 --> 01:41:49.279 where they are i'm trying to provide resources 01:41:49.279 --> 01:41:52.640 in ways that i hope are accessible and interesting 01:41:52.640 --> 01:41:56.800 to the whole wide variety of people and uh if 01:41:56.800 --> 01:41:59.659 if there's something you need that i'm not providing 01:41:59.659 --> 01:42:01.939 shoot me an email and i'm happy to to work with 01:42:01.939 --> 01:42:04.439 you on it A couple of questions before we go 01:42:04.439 --> 01:42:06.399 to the closing questions, because you've made 01:42:06.399 --> 01:42:08.680 me think about that now. Firstly, what is your 01:42:08.680 --> 01:42:14.140 philosophy on the aging tactical athlete? As 01:42:14.140 --> 01:42:17.840 you mentioned, I know that my ability to deal 01:42:17.840 --> 01:42:20.479 with the sleep deprivation in my 20s, I was basically 01:42:20.479 --> 01:42:23.319 30 when I started the fire service, was so different 01:42:23.319 --> 01:42:26.039 when I was in my mid 40s. And then again, you 01:42:26.039 --> 01:42:28.149 know, I've... beaten the shit out of my body 01:42:28.149 --> 01:42:30.689 and between the fire service martial arts stunts 01:42:30.689 --> 01:42:33.310 you know it's it's uh what they say ridden hard 01:42:33.310 --> 01:42:36.390 and put away put away wet um but you know but 01:42:36.390 --> 01:42:38.949 i found that again my ability to thrash myself 01:42:38.949 --> 01:42:41.250 and crossfit versus what i'm doing now there's 01:42:41.250 --> 01:42:43.869 definitely a metamorphosis that still maintained 01:42:43.869 --> 01:42:46.630 fitness and strength and mobility but it's a 01:42:46.630 --> 01:42:50.229 different way than when i was younger yeah and 01:42:50.229 --> 01:42:52.590 so that coming back to this whole idea of arbitrary 01:42:52.590 --> 01:42:55.689 versus intentional if you're taking an intentional 01:42:55.689 --> 01:42:58.670 approach to your physical fitness and your physical 01:42:58.670 --> 01:43:01.609 training and you take the time to just learn 01:43:01.609 --> 01:43:04.529 like what is the difference between high intensity 01:43:04.529 --> 01:43:07.529 and moderate intensity and where where is it 01:43:07.529 --> 01:43:10.430 beneficial to to focus on active recovery or 01:43:10.430 --> 01:43:13.170 aerobic training versus high intensity training 01:43:13.170 --> 01:43:16.590 and what kind of movements work for you personally 01:43:16.590 --> 01:43:20.899 and maybe what movements aren't as uh good for 01:43:20.899 --> 01:43:22.960 you based on your joint health or just whatever 01:43:22.960 --> 01:43:25.539 the case may be so to me that's the first part 01:43:25.539 --> 01:43:29.199 is either personally committing to recognizing 01:43:29.199 --> 01:43:32.399 and learning and building your own toolbox your 01:43:32.399 --> 01:43:34.640 own toolbox that you know some of these things 01:43:34.640 --> 01:43:36.439 you access daily some of these things you access 01:43:36.439 --> 01:43:38.079 from time to time but you're very well equipped 01:43:38.079 --> 01:43:40.760 to manage your your training over a long period 01:43:40.760 --> 01:43:44.239 of time i'm i'll be 53 years old this week and 01:43:44.239 --> 01:43:47.039 you know i'm not as strong as i was as a younger 01:43:47.039 --> 01:43:51.060 person but i tell you what i i feel fit. I do 01:43:51.060 --> 01:43:55.220 the training I want to do. I snowboard. I mountain 01:43:55.220 --> 01:44:00.760 bike. I do all these things. I'm not talented 01:44:00.760 --> 01:44:03.279 or skilled per se, but I do what I want to do. 01:44:03.500 --> 01:44:07.279 I feel good generally. If something pops up, 01:44:07.319 --> 01:44:10.039 I manage it and then I get back into it. That's 01:44:10.039 --> 01:44:13.800 my thought on don't let age define you. Don't 01:44:13.800 --> 01:44:17.319 let age as a number limit you. This whole idea 01:44:17.319 --> 01:44:21.739 of uh health span versus lifespan i love it because 01:44:21.739 --> 01:44:23.920 it's really encouraging people to take ownership 01:44:23.920 --> 01:44:26.439 of their health you know all the way deep into 01:44:26.439 --> 01:44:29.699 their older age so i just if you're listening 01:44:29.699 --> 01:44:32.279 and you're you know i get it man i have the same 01:44:32.279 --> 01:44:35.220 aches and pains and creaks and crackles but if 01:44:35.220 --> 01:44:38.239 you can really commit to being intentional around 01:44:38.239 --> 01:44:41.399 your training there's no limit really to what 01:44:41.399 --> 01:44:44.460 you can continue to do through your life Absolutely. 01:44:44.520 --> 01:44:47.659 What about nutritional principles? You know, 01:44:47.659 --> 01:44:50.960 people are so hell bent on this is the way. What 01:44:50.960 --> 01:44:52.939 is your kind of perspective on the nutritional 01:44:52.939 --> 01:44:57.260 side? Yeah. So there is a lot of dogma around 01:44:57.260 --> 01:45:00.279 nutrition. And I think the first red flag around 01:45:00.279 --> 01:45:02.899 any piece of nutrition advice is if someone says 01:45:02.899 --> 01:45:05.939 this is the only way to do it for everyone. People 01:45:05.939 --> 01:45:07.819 are different. They respond differently to different 01:45:07.819 --> 01:45:10.239 things. With that said, I think there are some 01:45:10.239 --> 01:45:12.880 basic tenants that I think benefit everyone. 01:45:13.079 --> 01:45:17.000 For example, I think whole foods are almost always 01:45:17.000 --> 01:45:19.920 preferable to processed foods. I think people 01:45:19.920 --> 01:45:23.760 often underestimate their protein intake and 01:45:23.760 --> 01:45:25.680 maybe don't understand the difference between 01:45:25.680 --> 01:45:28.520 quality protein and maybe lower quality protein. 01:45:28.640 --> 01:45:30.979 So I think protein is really the foundation of 01:45:30.979 --> 01:45:35.350 our meal planning. having a sense of macros, 01:45:35.350 --> 01:45:38.710 whether it's carbohydrates versus fats that, 01:45:38.710 --> 01:45:40.210 you know, don't have to do a deep dive of it, 01:45:40.250 --> 01:45:41.750 but just have an awareness of what you're eating 01:45:41.750 --> 01:45:45.170 and how that affects you. Trying to include fruits 01:45:45.170 --> 01:45:47.329 and vegetables because that is where we get a 01:45:47.329 --> 01:45:50.069 lot of our vitamins and minerals. So again, coming 01:45:50.069 --> 01:45:52.350 back, you're going to hear me say intentional 01:45:52.350 --> 01:45:55.069 over and over again, but just being mindful of 01:45:55.069 --> 01:45:59.109 how you eat. And so here's the challenge, James, 01:45:59.170 --> 01:46:03.279 for listeners. i have this kind of simple approach 01:46:03.279 --> 01:46:07.180 to measuring your your approach to your goals 01:46:07.180 --> 01:46:10.960 so it's called the the net system and that stands 01:46:10.960 --> 01:46:13.739 for nutrition exercise tracking and you wake 01:46:13.739 --> 01:46:17.000 up every morning with six nutrition points and 01:46:17.000 --> 01:46:20.539 every time you have a high sugar meal or beverage 01:46:20.539 --> 01:46:24.340 every alcoholic beverage anytime you deviate 01:46:24.340 --> 01:46:27.060 from your plan whatever that is it's minus one 01:46:27.060 --> 01:46:30.979 and then you have to earn four exercise points 01:46:30.979 --> 01:46:33.819 so if you do your whole workout as directed four 01:46:33.819 --> 01:46:37.020 points half a workout two points skip a workout 01:46:37.020 --> 01:46:41.619 zero points so each day in a very simple way 01:46:41.619 --> 01:46:46.039 that's specific to you 10 points max if you average 01:46:46.039 --> 01:46:49.979 eight points a week over a period of weeks i'm 01:46:49.979 --> 01:46:52.279 highly confident that you will make steady progress 01:46:52.279 --> 01:46:54.880 towards your goals we did a study in whatcom 01:46:54.880 --> 01:46:57.500 county with firefighters over over three months 01:46:57.500 --> 01:47:00.859 and we had a very specific fitness program and 01:47:00.859 --> 01:47:03.819 some nutrition guidance around that and we measured 01:47:03.819 --> 01:47:06.520 uh physical fitness and body comp and all that 01:47:06.520 --> 01:47:08.819 stuff on the front end and then we repeated 12 01:47:08.819 --> 01:47:11.739 weeks later and literally without exception everyone 01:47:11.739 --> 01:47:15.819 that had was even above that 70 showed measurable 01:47:15.819 --> 01:47:19.500 improvements in all of that and so it's just 01:47:19.500 --> 01:47:22.180 a simple way to it just makes you think and now 01:47:22.180 --> 01:47:24.020 at the fire station is gamified a little bit 01:47:24.020 --> 01:47:27.550 where all minus one minus one like you know the 01:47:27.550 --> 01:47:30.109 brownie is this close to the mouth oh minus one 01:47:30.109 --> 01:47:33.329 like it just it just helps us think about the 01:47:33.329 --> 01:47:35.109 decisions we make every day and if we have a 01:47:35.109 --> 01:47:37.909 goal in mind we're trying to get there this is 01:47:37.909 --> 01:47:40.289 just a simple way to to really pay attention 01:47:40.289 --> 01:47:42.649 to what you're doing pay attention to the choices 01:47:42.649 --> 01:47:45.470 you're making each day stay stay dedicated to 01:47:45.470 --> 01:47:47.829 the to the things that you know you need to do 01:47:47.829 --> 01:47:51.109 each day to move you closer to your goals Brilliant. 01:47:51.109 --> 01:47:53.670 I'm glad I asked that question. Thank you. All 01:47:53.670 --> 01:47:55.430 right. Well, the first of the closing questions, 01:47:55.710 --> 01:47:58.149 is there a book or are there books that you love 01:47:58.149 --> 01:48:00.510 to recommend? It can be related to our discussion 01:48:00.510 --> 01:48:04.390 today or completely unrelated. So it's interesting. 01:48:05.250 --> 01:48:07.869 I've got a few books that really come to mind 01:48:07.869 --> 01:48:09.510 when you ask that question. And the first one 01:48:09.510 --> 01:48:11.810 is a book called The Slight Edge, and that's 01:48:11.810 --> 01:48:15.630 by Jeff Olson. What he talks about in the book 01:48:15.630 --> 01:48:20.109 is this idea of compounding interest. So James, 01:48:20.210 --> 01:48:22.310 as I approach my retirement, you can imagine 01:48:22.310 --> 01:48:25.090 how I'm paying very close attention to compounding 01:48:25.090 --> 01:48:28.369 interest on my finances, but he puts it into 01:48:28.369 --> 01:48:31.770 the context of everything. Compounding interest 01:48:31.770 --> 01:48:34.449 around fitness, compounding interest around nutrition, 01:48:34.689 --> 01:48:37.229 around relationships. And the whole point of 01:48:37.229 --> 01:48:38.810 what he's saying in the book, and it kind of 01:48:38.810 --> 01:48:41.489 comes back to what we just talked about in terms 01:48:41.489 --> 01:48:44.539 of paying attention. to these small decisions 01:48:44.539 --> 01:48:49.640 that you make every day just knowing that weeks 01:48:49.640 --> 01:48:52.500 or months or years down the road those decisions 01:48:52.500 --> 01:48:57.039 will absolutely have this compounding either 01:48:57.039 --> 01:49:01.260 positive impact or negative so if your daily 01:49:01.260 --> 01:49:04.680 choice involves having an ipa every night after 01:49:04.680 --> 01:49:08.819 dinner well one day no big deal but the calories 01:49:08.819 --> 01:49:11.560 and the impacts of doing that every day for a 01:49:11.560 --> 01:49:14.760 month that's going to be a negative compounding 01:49:14.760 --> 01:49:17.100 effect. But if you're going to the gym and you're 01:49:17.100 --> 01:49:18.880 paying attention to what you're eating on this 01:49:18.880 --> 01:49:21.659 day and then this day and then week and month 01:49:21.659 --> 01:49:24.159 and down the road, how much progress can you 01:49:24.159 --> 01:49:26.460 make and how does that compound? So The Slight 01:49:26.460 --> 01:49:28.460 Edge, I think it's a great book and it really 01:49:28.460 --> 01:49:31.960 helps put that whole idea of taking advantage 01:49:31.960 --> 01:49:34.460 of the choices we make into perspective. Another 01:49:34.460 --> 01:49:36.579 one I love is called How to Live a Good Life. 01:49:37.289 --> 01:49:41.710 by Jonathan Fields. And he talks about four buckets, 01:49:41.850 --> 01:49:45.270 but for myself, it resonates with me to think 01:49:45.270 --> 01:49:48.050 of three buckets, those being vitality, which 01:49:48.050 --> 01:49:51.510 is basically health and joy and things that bring 01:49:51.510 --> 01:49:53.390 vitality to your life and what can you do every 01:49:53.390 --> 01:49:56.189 day to access that. Connection, which is your 01:49:56.189 --> 01:49:58.829 relationships, whether that's at work or at home, 01:49:58.890 --> 01:50:01.430 friendships, and then career. And what are you 01:50:01.430 --> 01:50:04.350 investing each day into work or any other endeavor? 01:50:04.409 --> 01:50:06.850 And it just... It helps me anyways to really 01:50:06.850 --> 01:50:09.090 pay attention to all of those buckets. Where 01:50:09.090 --> 01:50:12.670 am I in one bucket related to another? So I love 01:50:12.670 --> 01:50:15.510 that book. I mentioned Dave Dotson's Fire Department 01:50:15.510 --> 01:50:17.550 Incident Safety Officer. Can't recommend that 01:50:17.550 --> 01:50:21.199 highly enough for firefighters. And then. burnt 01:50:21.199 --> 01:50:25.279 around the edges by arjuna george he is a retired 01:50:25.279 --> 01:50:28.539 fire chief he's a fire service leader he's well 01:50:28.539 --> 01:50:31.020 tuned into the stress and stress management that 01:50:31.020 --> 01:50:33.420 we experience as firefighters i read that book 01:50:33.420 --> 01:50:35.699 at a time that i was really in a season of crisis 01:50:35.699 --> 01:50:38.239 and it helped me better understand what i was 01:50:38.239 --> 01:50:40.359 going through he makes reference to moral injury 01:50:40.359 --> 01:50:43.960 he talks even that maybe directly but indirectly 01:50:43.960 --> 01:50:46.460 about organizational betrayal trauma and some 01:50:46.460 --> 01:50:48.560 of the some of the things we're becoming aware 01:50:48.560 --> 01:50:51.640 of like Dina Ali wrote an article recently it's 01:50:51.640 --> 01:50:53.520 not about the calls you know there's there's 01:50:53.520 --> 01:50:56.000 some leadership gaps and some support gaps that 01:50:56.000 --> 01:50:58.460 really affect those of us that care about the 01:50:58.460 --> 01:51:00.880 fire service and then last but not least and 01:51:00.880 --> 01:51:04.100 this is kind of a fun one As I mentioned, Arnold 01:51:04.100 --> 01:51:06.260 Schwarzenegger has been a big influence throughout 01:51:06.260 --> 01:51:08.859 my entire life. He wrote a book recently called 01:51:08.859 --> 01:51:12.439 Be Useful and it's seven tools for life. I love 01:51:12.439 --> 01:51:15.239 his audio book because it's Arnold and he's talking 01:51:15.239 --> 01:51:17.779 and he's just entertaining and he's describing 01:51:17.779 --> 01:51:20.760 these things that are actionable. And obviously 01:51:20.760 --> 01:51:23.279 he's achieved so much in his life and he talks 01:51:23.279 --> 01:51:25.579 all about how he did that and how you might consider 01:51:25.579 --> 01:51:28.920 establishing a vision for yourself and a plan 01:51:28.920 --> 01:51:31.319 and dedication. And I just found that book to 01:51:31.319 --> 01:51:34.760 be very inspiring. Brilliant. I think all of 01:51:34.760 --> 01:51:36.619 them are actually new titles I haven't heard 01:51:36.619 --> 01:51:39.279 before on here, if I'm not mistaken. What about 01:51:39.279 --> 01:51:43.899 films and documentaries that you love? So anyone 01:51:43.899 --> 01:51:45.260 that knows me is going to laugh at this one. 01:51:45.539 --> 01:51:48.399 James, I love the Rocky series. You know, I was 01:51:48.399 --> 01:51:50.760 a kid when Rocky 1 came out. I've been obsessed 01:51:50.760 --> 01:51:53.279 with every Rocky movie that's ever come out, 01:51:53.279 --> 01:51:56.079 with the exception of Rocky 5. I might scratch 01:51:56.079 --> 01:51:58.399 that one off the list, but I will include all 01:51:58.399 --> 01:52:01.239 the Creed movies because I love those. I love 01:52:01.239 --> 01:52:04.600 stories of achievement. I love underdog stories. 01:52:05.899 --> 01:52:09.600 I watch those movies over and over again. I get 01:52:09.600 --> 01:52:12.300 my sons to watch those movies with me. By far 01:52:12.300 --> 01:52:14.920 my favorite collection of movies. Brilliant. 01:52:15.079 --> 01:52:17.119 All right. Well, next question. Is there a person 01:52:17.119 --> 01:52:19.380 that you recommend to come on this podcast as 01:52:19.380 --> 01:52:22.319 a guest to speak to the first responders, military, 01:52:22.500 --> 01:52:25.199 and associated professions of the world? Well, 01:52:25.239 --> 01:52:27.600 again, a few come to mind. Of course, I mentioned 01:52:27.600 --> 01:52:30.220 Mark Verstegen and I mentioned Scott Sonnen. 01:52:30.600 --> 01:52:32.659 Another one I really think would be an amazing 01:52:32.659 --> 01:52:35.500 guest. His name is Darcy Norman. He came up through 01:52:35.500 --> 01:52:39.399 the whole Exos community. He has been an elite 01:52:39.399 --> 01:52:42.319 level performance coach. at the highest level 01:52:42.319 --> 01:52:45.380 of sport right now he's the director of performance 01:52:45.380 --> 01:52:48.880 for chicago uh fire fc in the major league uh 01:52:48.880 --> 01:52:51.239 major league soccer he was head of performance 01:52:51.239 --> 01:52:55.359 for years u .s men's national team he uh was 01:52:55.359 --> 01:52:57.899 director of performance uh italy roma and he 01:52:57.899 --> 01:52:59.859 was on the staff for the german team that won 01:52:59.859 --> 01:53:02.880 the world cup and so you know here's a guy that 01:53:03.689 --> 01:53:07.630 has literally experienced uh the most elite athleticism 01:53:07.630 --> 01:53:09.569 in the world he's been at the highest level of 01:53:09.569 --> 01:53:12.510 sport on the field uh not only do i think he 01:53:12.510 --> 01:53:14.970 would just have amazing stories but uh so much 01:53:14.970 --> 01:53:17.949 knowledge to share okay brilliant well i appreciate 01:53:17.949 --> 01:53:19.869 that they sound like great people thank you so 01:53:19.869 --> 01:53:22.510 much all right well then the last question before 01:53:22.510 --> 01:53:24.250 we make sure everyone knows where to find you 01:53:24.250 --> 01:53:28.390 what you do to decompress uh it really varies 01:53:28.390 --> 01:53:32.479 um So of course we talk about, you know, the 01:53:32.479 --> 01:53:36.520 exercise and downtime and things like that. But 01:53:36.520 --> 01:53:39.380 if I were just to paint a picture of what would 01:53:39.380 --> 01:53:41.199 be just the most relaxing thing in the world 01:53:41.199 --> 01:53:43.899 is a sunny day, which in Western Washington, 01:53:44.039 --> 01:53:46.380 we don't always have sunshine. And then we have 01:53:46.380 --> 01:53:49.279 a five -year -old chocolate lab named Griffey. 01:53:50.250 --> 01:53:52.130 I'll throw the ball for that dog and no matter 01:53:52.130 --> 01:53:55.550 how stressed out I am to see this smile on this 01:53:55.550 --> 01:53:58.409 dog's face, to see his ears flapping as he's 01:53:58.409 --> 01:54:01.000 bringing this ball back. i tell you james that 01:54:01.000 --> 01:54:04.659 i'm a sucker uh for our pets and but this this 01:54:04.659 --> 01:54:07.859 dog i cannot be stressed out when when i spend 01:54:07.859 --> 01:54:09.939 time with the dog and i'll all intentionally 01:54:09.939 --> 01:54:13.800 either go play with him or having an 80 pound 01:54:13.800 --> 01:54:18.079 lap dog is also very relaxing and i lean on him 01:54:18.079 --> 01:54:21.260 a lot to help me with my stress i couldn't agree 01:54:21.260 --> 01:54:23.979 more that's what i do twice a day so yeah i totally 01:54:23.979 --> 01:54:26.199 relate all right well then for people listening 01:54:26.640 --> 01:54:28.720 where can they find the website and where else 01:54:28.720 --> 01:54:31.560 is can they where else is god my brain's scrambled 01:54:31.560 --> 01:54:34.560 today where else on social media can they also 01:54:34.560 --> 01:54:38.000 find you yep so on the business side firefighter 01:54:38.000 --> 01:54:40.239 peak performance so my website's firefighter 01:54:40.239 --> 01:54:44.399 peakperformance .com on linkedin facebook instagram 01:54:44.399 --> 01:54:47.039 firefighter peak performance and then also i've 01:54:47.039 --> 01:54:50.380 got my personal side ryan provencher also facebook 01:54:50.380 --> 01:54:54.300 linkedin instagram those are the social media 01:54:54.300 --> 01:54:57.329 outlets that you'll find me on Brilliant. Well, 01:54:57.430 --> 01:54:58.930 Ryan, I want to say thank you so much. Thank 01:54:58.930 --> 01:55:01.409 you to John for the connection again, but also 01:55:01.409 --> 01:55:04.590 such a unique perspective. I mean, to have this 01:55:04.590 --> 01:55:06.170 parallel career of strength and conditioning 01:55:06.170 --> 01:55:09.649 and a full three decade in the fire service as 01:55:09.649 --> 01:55:12.329 well, it really has been fascinating to get your 01:55:12.329 --> 01:55:14.510 perspective on all these areas. So I want to 01:55:14.510 --> 01:55:16.369 thank you so much for being so generous with 01:55:16.369 --> 01:55:18.350 your time and coming on the Behind the Shield 01:55:18.350 --> 01:55:22.239 podcast today. James, it's my honor. I'm so grateful 01:55:22.239 --> 01:55:24.939 for the career and I'm a dedicated man to paint 01:55:24.939 --> 01:55:26.380 it forward. So thank you.