WEBVTT

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This episode is sponsored by TeamBuildr, yet

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another company that's doing great things for

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the first responder community. As a strength

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and conditioning coach myself who also trains

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tactical athletes, dissemination of wellness

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information is one of the biggest challenges.

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Now TeamBuildr is the premier strength and conditioning

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software for tactical athletes and there are

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several features that really impress me. Firstly,

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there is a full exercise library. So you, the

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personal trainer, does not have to create that

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within your own department. Secondly, you can

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send out programming, but also individualize,

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which I love. So you blanket program for everyone.

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Now you can tweak based on someone's injury,

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someone's need to maybe drop some body composition,

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rather than having to write a program for every

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single person on their own. TeamBuildr also

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allows you to build custom questionnaires to

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collate health and wellness data. It integrates

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with wearables. And I think one of the most important

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things is obviously it tracks. To me, it's imperative

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that we as a profession start tracking our people

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from day one and then over the full span of their

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career, therefore catching potential wellness

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issues and injuries before they happen. Now,

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if you want to try TeamBuildr, they are offering

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you, the audience of the Behind the Shield podcast,

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a free 14 -day trial to experience all of the

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features. And if you want to take a deeper dive

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into TeamBuildr, listen to episode 1032 with

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Melissa Mercado or go to teambuildr .com. And

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I'll spell that to you because it's not as you

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think, T -E -A -M -B -U -I -L -D -R .com. Welcome

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to the Bionish Shield podcast. As always, my

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name is James Gearing, and this week it is my

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absolute honor to welcome on the show Naval Special

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Warfare veteran and the man behind Carcajou Resilience

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Group, Justin Sheehan. Now, in this conversation,

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we discuss a host of topics, from entering the

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Navy as a corpsman, his journey into the SEAL

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teams, joining SEAL Team 6, kindness and compassion

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on the battlefield, tactical medicine, CrossFit,

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Jiu -Jitsu, training law enforcement, and so

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much more. Now, before we get to this incredible

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conversation, as I say every week, please just

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take a moment. Go to whichever app you listen

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to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback,

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and leave a rating. Every single five -star rating

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truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making

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it easier for others to find. And this is a free

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library of over 1 ,100 episodes now. So all I

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ask in return is that you help share these incredible

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men and women's stories so I can get them to

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every single person on planet Earth who needs

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to hear them. So with that being said, I introduce

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to you Justin Sheehan. Enjoy. Well, Justin, I

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want to start by saying two things. Firstly,

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thank you to our mutual friend Kagan Gill for

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making this introduction. And secondly, to welcome

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you onto the Behind the Shield podcast today.

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Thank you. Appreciate that. Appreciate both Kagan

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connecting us and you having me on. So I know

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you are deep in the world of jiu -jitsu. I know

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that's what brought you and Kagan together. So

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talk to me about that kind of mutual meeting.

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Yeah, a friend of Kagan's, Matt, and his wife,

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Stephanie, and their kids, they were coming to

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our Jiu -Jitsu Academy in Traverse City to train.

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And they spent half their year up in Traverse

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City, Michigan, and the other half out in Hawaii.

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And their kid's a big competitor, and my children

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compete as well. And they asked about, you know,

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bringing their kids into the club while they're

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here for the summers. And as soon as they came

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in, you know, they fell in love with the academy.

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And then his friend, Matt, said, you've got to

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meet. My buddy Kagan. And I think I told you

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before, before I even met him, I was going to

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meet him the next day. I was actually flying

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in. I was down in Georgia working and I flew

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back up and that night sitting in the hotel room,

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he sends me, you know, a podcast and an article

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and all this different stuff about Kagan. And

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I thought his story was obviously incredible.

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It's miraculous that he's alive. He's a testament

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to resilience, which is the. I think that I push

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the most just in training is being resilient.

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I feel like it's what has enabled me to be successful,

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not always being the best, right? You're not

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always the fastest or the strongest or the smartest,

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but boy, you know, if you can persevere and be

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there at the end, you find that you're at the

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top or close to it. So Kagan was a testament

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to that, his story. And oddly enough, I remembered

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his jet. crashing because i was in virginia beach

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at the same time and i lived maybe 10 12 miles

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from nas oceana where his squadron his air squadron

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was out of so i remembered that crash um but

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i didn't know him the guy across the street from

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me he was a top gun pilot and kagan actually

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knows him and we talked about it you know a decade

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later of course but yeah it's funny how you have

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these little touch points and It always goes

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back to how small the world really is, right?

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Like you're never that far apart from people,

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you know? Yeah, absolutely. Well, let's start

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at the very beginning of your journey. I mean,

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you have a fascinating story yourself. So tell

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me where you were born and tell me a little bit

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about your family dynamic, what your parents

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did, how many siblings. Yeah, so I was born.

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Up in Prescott, Michigan. That's where we, you

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know, I was born there, lived there my whole

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life until I left for the service. I had one

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brother. He's five years younger than me. He

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actually served in the Navy as well. But, you

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know, growing up, we lived in a farming community.

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It was a very small area. Graduated with 60 plus

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people in my class in 2003. But I knew everybody.

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I knew everybody's little brothers, sisters.

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I knew their... grandparents you it's a community

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where you know there's no there's no secrets

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um it's that it's that tight knit um and i just

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grew up around hard work you know i remember

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when i left for the service that was what i i

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told myself i that that was what was going to

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get me through this program that was seemingly

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impossible was just that i would was willing

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to outwork everybody else um so that was the

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kind of lifestyle i had you know we we had fun

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Like we hunted, we fished, we spent time in the

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outdoors, snowmobiling and water skiing as a

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kid. You know, we definitely enjoyed life, but

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not until the work was done. So that was instilled

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very early on in me. And I spent a lot of time

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around older people because I was on the farm

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all the time. So it was always I felt like I

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was always around elderly. Right. That had very

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traditional values. And and again, we're just.

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They worked hard to cut from a different cloth.

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And I think that helped me mature early, at least

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emotionally and mentally being around those types

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of folks. So I loved it. You know, when I left

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home, I didn't leave. I wasn't one of those guys

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that left home and I was like, I'm never coming

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back. You know, I really enjoyed my childhood.

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I enjoyed the hard work. I really liked that

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lifestyle. That all said, I did have an uncle

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that was an Army Ranger, and I heard about that

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my whole life. Uncle Jay's doing this and doing

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that, and it was during Desert Storm, so he was

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involved in that. I was very aware of the military

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and these different programs that existed. So

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for a very long time, I wanted to be a Marine

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sniper. That's what I wanted to be. I wanted

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to do it. do long range shooting. I wanted to

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be in the Marine Corps. I thought they were the

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toughest guys out there. And as I got closer

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and closer to that, 9 -11 occurred. So I was

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a junior in high school when 9 -11 happened.

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And that was that, that was that push that really

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just sealed it for me. I said, well, there's

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no question what I'm doing with my life after

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this, after school. I ended up, I did go to college

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for a little bit in between high school and the

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Navy, but Really, I was there. I mean, I got

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really good grades, but I was there using the

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pool, using the weight room. You know, I was

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kind of preparing myself to go into this program.

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Right. And I Marine Corps started to fade as

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I met more people. I was doing construction while

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I was in college. And one of the guys on the

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crew, he was a former recon Marine and we would

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lift weights together and stuff and hang out.

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i told him you know i want to be a marine i want

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to be a sniper i want to i want to go recon this

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and that heartbreak ridge was you know something

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that was on repeat at the house you know watching

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clint eastwood and um that's what i wanted and

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he was just like i think that's a horrible idea

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what and he's like yeah because i don't he goes

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just knowing you i don't think that's your that's

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a fit for you um he said you know they're It's

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very square. There's very strict guidelines.

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It's haircut and shave. It's yes, sir, no, sir.

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You know, falling in ranks. He said, you should

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look into being a SEAL. Well, I didn't even know

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what a SEAL was at that point. Like, we didn't

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have the popularity, you know, the notoriety

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that we have now. Now, you hear about it whether

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you want to or not. Well, when I was a kid, there

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was just books available. But I respected this

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guy. His name was Bob Ruth and I respected him

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and I said, all right, I'll dig into it. And

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I did. And then I fell in love, right? Like you

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start reading, you know, these books from the

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Vietnam era and these guys and even, you know,

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Dick Marcinko is an embellisher, but he could

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captivate an audience, you know what I mean?

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And that became my new goal was getting into

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the SEAL teams. So I went through a few semesters

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of college. I enlisted. I just showed up at the

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recruiting office one day. I was working and

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going to college. I had my barn clothes on. I

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was covered in cow shit. I came in there and

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I was like, hey, I want to be a Navy SEAL. I'm

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not big. I'm 5 '7". I was 150 pounds. The recruiter

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just basically told me that I'd never make it.

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Even if I could make it, I probably wouldn't

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get a high enough ASVAB score to qualify. It

00:11:17.730 --> 00:11:20.899
was just like, hey, here are all the reasons

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why you won't make it. And if you're really interested

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in going in the military, you should do this.

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And I was just like, no, this is what I want

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to do. So jumped through all the hoops and he

00:11:32.799 --> 00:11:35.539
realized quickly that I wasn't messing around,

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that I really wanted this and that I was going

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to be a decent performer. So I got my contract

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to go into the Navy. I was a hospital corpsman.

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You had to pick a job at that time. You couldn't

00:11:47.159 --> 00:11:49.440
just go in and be a SEAL. Now you can. But back

00:11:49.440 --> 00:11:51.940
then you had to pick a different rate. I picked

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hospital corpsman because I knew that if I washed

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out of buds, I could go fight with the Marines.

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So I was always thinking like, hey, you know,

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if this fails, I need to still somehow ensure

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that I get to where I want to be, which is on

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the front line, you know, serving my country.

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So I did that. I went in. I went to core school.

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I screened while I was there and passed all the

00:12:16.500 --> 00:12:18.659
screenings to get into BUDS, and I just waited

00:12:18.659 --> 00:12:21.519
for my orders. And then eventually orders popped,

00:12:21.639 --> 00:12:24.379
and I went out to California, got out there,

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and met all these new obstacles and much different

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way of life. Growing up in northern Michigan

00:12:31.860 --> 00:12:35.779
in this farming community, and now I'm on the

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ocean. Never stepped foot in the ocean. That

00:12:37.700 --> 00:12:40.049
was the first time. right like i bet in the great

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lakes which i always told people oh it's just

00:12:42.409 --> 00:12:46.389
like the great lakes well it's really not you

00:12:46.389 --> 00:12:49.509
don't have rip currents and 12 -foot waves uh

00:12:49.509 --> 00:12:55.990
sharks yeah but yeah i i um i did well i got

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i got through buds and went to sqt and we do

00:12:59.909 --> 00:13:01.970
our dream sheet you put in where you want to

00:13:01.970 --> 00:13:05.669
be where you want to go most guys it doesn't

00:13:05.669 --> 00:13:07.129
matter what you put in it's the needs of the

00:13:07.129 --> 00:13:10.070
navy even at even at that tier it still needs

00:13:10.070 --> 00:13:13.090
the navy so you think that you're getting the

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pick but you really aren't but i did get the

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team that i wanted i put all east coast teams

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i took put two four and eight down and i got

00:13:20.730 --> 00:13:24.570
team two um so that was great i did that so i

00:13:24.570 --> 00:13:27.429
could be closer to home and uh things that i

00:13:27.429 --> 00:13:30.049
knew a little bit better you know vice the ocean

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and the beach uh east coast is Got some green.

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And even though we were on the ocean, it felt

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more like home. And I missed that. So I went

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to SEAL Team 2. I did two deployments there.

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And then I screened for Development Group and

00:13:45.259 --> 00:13:47.320
got picked up. And I went through Green Team

00:13:47.320 --> 00:13:51.299
in 2013. And I did my last four years over at

00:13:51.299 --> 00:13:54.960
Development Group. So it was a great ride. After

00:13:54.960 --> 00:13:58.019
that, I came home and went back to college, finished

00:13:58.019 --> 00:14:01.019
that out, saw that through. And then I've done

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a little bit of everything since then. I have

00:14:03.039 --> 00:14:07.179
an LLC and worked in different industries and

00:14:07.179 --> 00:14:11.340
just enjoying life. Well, I'm going to take you

00:14:11.340 --> 00:14:13.279
all the way back to the beginning of your story.

00:14:13.440 --> 00:14:16.080
So firstly, what about profession as far as your

00:14:16.080 --> 00:14:18.419
parents? Were they actually both involved in

00:14:18.419 --> 00:14:22.500
the farm itself? Yeah, they were. My dad actually,

00:14:22.639 --> 00:14:26.120
the year I was born, he joined a mining company.

00:14:26.360 --> 00:14:31.740
So he started mining. We have this gypsum rock

00:14:31.740 --> 00:14:34.240
up here that's used in wallboard. You probably

00:14:34.240 --> 00:14:36.879
from firefighting have heard gypsum and whatnot.

00:14:37.019 --> 00:14:40.720
It's flame retardant and all that jazz. But they

00:14:40.720 --> 00:14:43.100
would bring freighters in up the Great Lakes

00:14:43.100 --> 00:14:46.039
and they would load these freighters with gypsum

00:14:46.039 --> 00:14:48.159
rock and then they'd go up into Canada and whatnot.

00:14:48.480 --> 00:14:51.159
And it was a really big industry back then by

00:14:51.159 --> 00:14:55.519
freighter. It has transitioned over to truck

00:14:55.519 --> 00:14:59.809
and train now, mostly. my dad took that job when

00:14:59.809 --> 00:15:03.090
i was the year same year i was born so he's been

00:15:03.090 --> 00:15:04.950
there ever since so he's been there 40 years

00:15:04.950 --> 00:15:08.029
now but my mom continued to farm and they were

00:15:08.029 --> 00:15:10.629
farmers before that my mom grew up on a family

00:15:10.629 --> 00:15:13.049
farm when she was young and they moved up to

00:15:13.049 --> 00:15:15.389
you know where i was born and she met my dad

00:15:15.389 --> 00:15:18.669
and she continued to farm while i was a kid and

00:15:18.669 --> 00:15:23.309
uh you know we it was unique in the fact that

00:15:23.309 --> 00:15:26.889
the folks that i considered family they weren't

00:15:26.889 --> 00:15:29.149
really family the farm that my mom worked on

00:15:29.149 --> 00:15:33.269
it was the erickson family farm and they told

00:15:33.269 --> 00:15:35.870
my mom and dad before i was even born hey when

00:15:35.870 --> 00:15:38.909
you have kids we would like these kids to call

00:15:38.909 --> 00:15:41.850
us grandma and grandpa and we want to be we want

00:15:41.850 --> 00:15:44.009
to be there you know for each other like we feel

00:15:44.009 --> 00:15:46.529
that way about you guys so i grew up on this

00:15:46.529 --> 00:15:49.870
farm this family farm that is not really family

00:15:49.870 --> 00:15:54.779
it's just by kind of an adoptive measure, but,

00:15:54.840 --> 00:15:59.139
um, I, I love there, you know, that, that community

00:15:59.139 --> 00:16:01.580
and those people, they, they really taught me

00:16:01.580 --> 00:16:05.399
a lot. They were anytime I, I messed up, I asked

00:16:05.399 --> 00:16:07.320
myself what they would think about it, how they

00:16:07.320 --> 00:16:10.320
would feel, you know, it provided those, that

00:16:10.320 --> 00:16:13.419
sounding board that I needed. So yeah, my mom

00:16:13.419 --> 00:16:15.659
continued to farm and my dad continued to pitch

00:16:15.659 --> 00:16:18.179
in here and there and work on farms and stuff.

00:16:18.259 --> 00:16:20.960
They, they love it. They love farming and they

00:16:20.960 --> 00:16:24.440
love. being outdoors and just everything that

00:16:24.440 --> 00:16:27.159
comes along with it. But yeah, they, they did

00:16:27.159 --> 00:16:29.399
it pretty much their entire lives. And then my

00:16:29.399 --> 00:16:31.639
mom ended up working at the school system as

00:16:31.639 --> 00:16:34.820
a cook later on in life, but they still have

00:16:34.820 --> 00:16:36.980
a little, you know, little tiny farm at the house

00:16:36.980 --> 00:16:39.539
that they do stuff and keep their garden going

00:16:39.539 --> 00:16:42.700
and pumpkins. And they've had beef cattle over

00:16:42.700 --> 00:16:45.799
the years and a pig that they raised for slaughter

00:16:45.799 --> 00:16:48.519
and stuff like that. So yeah, they were, they

00:16:48.519 --> 00:16:50.539
were definitely farmers and miners, I would say

00:16:50.539 --> 00:16:56.559
is the. the core skill set that they had. I grew

00:16:56.559 --> 00:16:58.679
up on a farm as well, but mine kind of butted

00:16:58.679 --> 00:17:01.360
up against where the rest of the town was. So

00:17:01.360 --> 00:17:03.539
we weren't like really out in the middle of nowhere.

00:17:03.679 --> 00:17:07.160
And my dad was a veterinary surgeon. So we had

00:17:07.160 --> 00:17:09.279
a small animal practice in town and then he was

00:17:09.279 --> 00:17:11.480
an equine specialist. So we had horses on the

00:17:11.480 --> 00:17:14.359
farm and sheep and ducks and geese and all the

00:17:14.359 --> 00:17:18.099
things. And it's interesting looking back how

00:17:18.099 --> 00:17:21.650
that served me well. in the fire service, whether

00:17:21.650 --> 00:17:23.809
it was just dealing with misery and the English

00:17:23.809 --> 00:17:26.150
winners, you know, when you were either working,

00:17:26.289 --> 00:17:28.730
you know, bailing or I guess wouldn't be bailing

00:17:28.730 --> 00:17:30.849
in them, but the summers of bailing and the winters

00:17:30.849 --> 00:17:32.990
and the spring, you know, the cold with the lambing

00:17:32.990 --> 00:17:35.309
and all these things, you know, that kind of

00:17:35.309 --> 00:17:37.569
most kids didn't get to experience good or bad.

00:17:38.539 --> 00:17:40.819
And then, you know, the communal dining table,

00:17:40.880 --> 00:17:42.940
like I said, our farmhouse would have everyone

00:17:42.940 --> 00:17:46.019
from extended royal family to gypsies and some

00:17:46.019 --> 00:17:48.099
homeless people came through. My parents helped

00:17:48.099 --> 00:17:50.480
out when they kind of wanted up on on the drive.

00:17:50.619 --> 00:17:53.960
And so it really was an eclectic group of men

00:17:53.960 --> 00:17:55.420
and women. And there was a lot of people that

00:17:55.420 --> 00:17:57.940
we called auntie or uncle that, again, weren't

00:17:57.940 --> 00:18:03.109
actually blood relatives. So. I can see how that

00:18:03.109 --> 00:18:06.450
factored into areas that I seem to do well in

00:18:06.450 --> 00:18:08.950
the fire service later. When you reflect back

00:18:08.950 --> 00:18:12.089
now on that upbringing, how did elements of that

00:18:12.089 --> 00:18:14.190
serve you well when you started entering the

00:18:14.190 --> 00:18:18.049
teams? Yeah, well, you know, you're bringing

00:18:18.049 --> 00:18:20.990
up old memories, right, of stuff, right? But,

00:18:20.990 --> 00:18:23.789
you know, we had milk cows. Grandma and grandpa

00:18:23.789 --> 00:18:26.230
had milk cows until I was probably eight or nine

00:18:26.230 --> 00:18:29.630
years old. Well, naturally, I was milking cows.

00:18:30.349 --> 00:18:32.829
during high school because you milk cows twice

00:18:32.829 --> 00:18:35.910
a day well if we milk cows at three four o 'clock

00:18:35.910 --> 00:18:37.710
in the morning then they need milk again three

00:18:37.710 --> 00:18:40.450
four o 'clock in the afternoon right so and i

00:18:40.450 --> 00:18:42.809
hated milking cows and i remembered that i you

00:18:42.809 --> 00:18:45.710
know i i hated getting kicked by them and i grew

00:18:45.710 --> 00:18:49.670
up i grew up around people that didn't believe

00:18:49.670 --> 00:18:52.529
in and rightfully so they didn't believe in abusing

00:18:52.529 --> 00:18:54.450
the animal or hitting the animal back right like

00:18:54.450 --> 00:18:56.670
you didn't you it didn't matter how hard the

00:18:56.670 --> 00:18:59.339
cow kicked you you held your composure Right.

00:18:59.440 --> 00:19:01.579
And you put the milker on whether it kicked it

00:19:01.579 --> 00:19:04.039
off 10 times. Right. You just went back and put

00:19:04.039 --> 00:19:06.980
it on 11th time. But I remember being in the

00:19:06.980 --> 00:19:09.119
service thinking, oh, I'll never have to milk

00:19:09.119 --> 00:19:11.619
a cow again. Right. And I haven't had a cow since

00:19:11.619 --> 00:19:14.779
then. And I don't I really don't miss it. It's

00:19:14.779 --> 00:19:17.299
one of the things. But farm life in general.

00:19:17.339 --> 00:19:21.539
Right. Just teaches you, you know, the hottest

00:19:21.539 --> 00:19:24.599
I've ever been is in a hay mouth. Right. Bales

00:19:24.599 --> 00:19:28.609
coming off the elevator. Wet hay. that was probably

00:19:28.609 --> 00:19:30.990
probably didn't dry long enough right it was

00:19:30.990 --> 00:19:34.430
heavy and wet and they're coming off that elevator

00:19:34.430 --> 00:19:37.170
faster than you can catch them and you're stacking

00:19:37.170 --> 00:19:38.930
them over your head you're throwing those hay

00:19:38.930 --> 00:19:42.190
bales and it reminds me of like a wrestling room

00:19:42.190 --> 00:19:44.390
when you leave practice and you've lost four

00:19:44.390 --> 00:19:46.289
or five pounds of sweat like that's what being

00:19:46.289 --> 00:19:50.430
in the haymow is right is is like and and i did

00:19:50.430 --> 00:19:52.609
love that part of the job right because i like

00:19:52.609 --> 00:19:54.930
that hard work i like leaving there feeling just

00:19:54.930 --> 00:19:58.660
absolutely spent And when I got to Bud's, I compared

00:19:58.660 --> 00:20:01.180
a lot of things to that. Later in life, I compared

00:20:01.180 --> 00:20:03.420
CrossFit to that. I hated CrossFit for a long

00:20:03.420 --> 00:20:06.700
time. And then I realized this is just like how

00:20:06.700 --> 00:20:09.799
I grew up, like carrying milk buckets, carrying

00:20:09.799 --> 00:20:13.400
hay bales, right? Like grinding it out. A farm

00:20:13.400 --> 00:20:16.740
never sleeps. So when I got to Bud's and you're

00:20:16.740 --> 00:20:19.220
up all the time and you're constantly working

00:20:19.220 --> 00:20:21.519
and it's one evolution to the next and they don't

00:20:21.519 --> 00:20:24.019
always make sense why you're doing this when

00:20:24.019 --> 00:20:27.130
you just finished that. for me it was it was

00:20:27.130 --> 00:20:30.329
an easy transition i think because farms don't

00:20:30.329 --> 00:20:33.809
sleep right and even though you know i wasn't

00:20:33.809 --> 00:20:35.930
the one running the farm and i had the luxury

00:20:35.930 --> 00:20:39.930
of you know going on vacations and stuff like

00:20:39.930 --> 00:20:43.869
that it wasn't my farm um i understood all that

00:20:43.869 --> 00:20:47.130
i understood what goes into uh making a farm

00:20:47.130 --> 00:20:50.150
operate and work and how it had you know what

00:20:50.150 --> 00:20:52.269
needs to be done for it to be successful i think

00:20:52.269 --> 00:20:54.900
that I think that really helped me later on in

00:20:54.900 --> 00:20:57.299
my career. Right. And then I noticed along the

00:20:57.299 --> 00:20:59.420
way there would always be some little problem

00:20:59.420 --> 00:21:02.799
and somebody be like, well, how can we get this

00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:06.220
done? And I was I they thought I was really creative.

00:21:07.140 --> 00:21:10.019
I wasn't. We just had limited resources growing

00:21:10.019 --> 00:21:12.680
up and had to make do with what you had. So I

00:21:12.680 --> 00:21:14.440
would be like, oh, we could just back that side

00:21:14.440 --> 00:21:16.759
by side up to here. We could use that plank,

00:21:16.859 --> 00:21:19.019
you know, to get this up there in the bed. And

00:21:19.019 --> 00:21:20.779
people are like, wow, how do you think about

00:21:20.779 --> 00:21:23.390
it? I'm like. We have to solve a hundred problems

00:21:23.390 --> 00:21:25.769
like this a day on a, you know, back home on

00:21:25.769 --> 00:21:29.710
a farm. Especially that era where technology

00:21:29.710 --> 00:21:33.190
hadn't really taken off yet in that kind of thing.

00:21:33.349 --> 00:21:39.150
So, yeah. Absolutely. I heard you on a podcast.

00:21:39.250 --> 00:21:41.109
I wish I could remember what it was called, but

00:21:41.109 --> 00:21:43.529
it was one you did very recently, I think. And

00:21:43.529 --> 00:21:47.410
you talked about that sense of patriotism that

00:21:47.410 --> 00:21:51.440
you see in small town America. And this is an

00:21:51.440 --> 00:21:53.839
observation I've made. You know, we use the word

00:21:53.839 --> 00:21:56.640
it takes a village to raise a child. And I think

00:21:56.640 --> 00:21:58.500
that's the kind of disconnect that we've had

00:21:58.500 --> 00:22:01.539
as suburbia and the urban sprawl has just amassed

00:22:01.539 --> 00:22:04.079
that we've lost that kind of tribal community.

00:22:04.619 --> 00:22:08.920
When you reflect back now, what is it about growing

00:22:08.920 --> 00:22:11.339
up in a place, you know, in an era where you

00:22:11.339 --> 00:22:13.980
didn't have, you know, all this technology that

00:22:13.980 --> 00:22:17.119
you were surrounded by American farmland and,

00:22:17.119 --> 00:22:21.099
you know, wildlife and community? And how that

00:22:21.099 --> 00:22:23.579
factors into patriotism, because this is what

00:22:23.579 --> 00:22:26.680
I talk about a lot. That is America. The people

00:22:26.680 --> 00:22:28.940
that we spoke about before we hit record, you

00:22:28.940 --> 00:22:31.279
know, all these beautiful ethnicities that we

00:22:31.279 --> 00:22:34.240
have all over this country. That is also America.

00:22:34.460 --> 00:22:37.440
The politics, the nastiness, that's not America.

00:22:37.480 --> 00:22:40.500
That's just people yapping. So what is it about

00:22:40.500 --> 00:22:43.420
your upbringing, you know, and towns that are

00:22:43.420 --> 00:22:46.500
similar all over the country that forges such

00:22:46.500 --> 00:22:52.200
patriotism rather than nationalism? Yeah. Well,

00:22:52.420 --> 00:22:57.680
I think I think when we think in relation to

00:22:57.680 --> 00:23:00.380
like a tribe, I think when a tribe grows beyond

00:23:00.380 --> 00:23:03.180
a certain number, it's no longer a tribe. Right.

00:23:03.319 --> 00:23:06.319
It's just it becomes a demographic. It becomes

00:23:06.319 --> 00:23:10.220
a population. Right. A population study by something

00:23:10.220 --> 00:23:13.440
feeling tribal and feeling like a community.

00:23:13.700 --> 00:23:17.180
And I know growing up, I didn't I didn't feel

00:23:17.180 --> 00:23:20.960
any. any lack of patriotism from anybody where

00:23:20.960 --> 00:23:23.700
I come from. They, and I think that part of that

00:23:23.700 --> 00:23:27.000
was because, you know, when somebody, when you

00:23:27.000 --> 00:23:29.880
lose somebody, like when the Iraq war kicked

00:23:29.880 --> 00:23:31.980
off and we were seeing body counts on the TV,

00:23:32.079 --> 00:23:37.440
it meant more when you knew that Bill, Billy

00:23:37.440 --> 00:23:40.380
Johnson is one of those guys that's over there

00:23:40.380 --> 00:23:43.319
right now, right? Like everybody knows who Billy

00:23:43.319 --> 00:23:45.660
is. I told you that in the beginning, like I

00:23:45.660 --> 00:23:47.940
knew everybody's. you know, all their siblings.

00:23:48.039 --> 00:23:49.700
I knew their parents. I knew, you know, I could

00:23:49.700 --> 00:23:52.640
tell you, we can, I can drive through Prescott

00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:55.059
and Whittemore and Hale and these little towns

00:23:55.059 --> 00:23:57.559
around where I grew up. And even today, I can

00:23:57.559 --> 00:24:00.400
tell you who lived there for the last 50, 60

00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:02.359
years. You know what I mean? Because when I was

00:24:02.359 --> 00:24:04.480
a little kid, my mom and dad and my grandparents

00:24:04.480 --> 00:24:07.099
told me, oh, that was, you know, back when I

00:24:07.099 --> 00:24:09.160
was growing up and you hear those stories. So

00:24:09.160 --> 00:24:11.859
people, you have more touch points with these

00:24:11.859 --> 00:24:15.000
people. And I think when you're in these large

00:24:15.000 --> 00:24:18.029
communities. these big suburban communities you

00:24:18.029 --> 00:24:21.849
just you you become more independent more isolated

00:24:21.849 --> 00:24:24.809
even though you're around more people you become

00:24:24.809 --> 00:24:28.710
more isolated and insulated from things and you

00:24:28.710 --> 00:24:31.430
just know the kid down the hall in the apartment

00:24:31.430 --> 00:24:35.950
is gone right and then somebody's like oh yeah

00:24:35.950 --> 00:24:38.950
he went into the military or oh he he became

00:24:38.950 --> 00:24:41.369
this and you're like oh that's cool but you don't

00:24:41.369 --> 00:24:43.500
really know them Right. But these communities,

00:24:43.700 --> 00:24:47.200
you know, these you know, these kids. And I think

00:24:47.200 --> 00:24:50.920
that that that keeps that patriotism there. And

00:24:50.920 --> 00:24:55.380
and they and I think that folks coming back and

00:24:55.380 --> 00:24:58.019
just speaking to that is important, too. And

00:24:58.019 --> 00:24:59.940
how important it is, because you can get lost

00:24:59.940 --> 00:25:02.500
as a kid and not realize how special it is, for

00:25:02.500 --> 00:25:05.920
sure. But, yeah, I think just the size, the size

00:25:05.920 --> 00:25:08.759
and scalability of a community. Right. Like it's

00:25:08.759 --> 00:25:11.680
too big and it outgrows. it outgrows its values

00:25:11.680 --> 00:25:14.759
in a way and that's where we have to be careful

00:25:14.759 --> 00:25:20.680
as a country outgrowing our values right um and

00:25:20.680 --> 00:25:22.940
that's a probably a problem i i know it's a problem

00:25:22.940 --> 00:25:26.160
i can't solve but um i think that's where we

00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:28.240
need to get back to right not outgrowing our

00:25:28.240 --> 00:25:32.059
values as a country what we stand for not violating

00:25:32.059 --> 00:25:35.940
those things um it's hard with technology right

00:25:35.940 --> 00:25:39.140
like you and i didn't have cell phones as kids.

00:25:39.279 --> 00:25:42.160
And it was a blessing. I got my first cell phone

00:25:42.160 --> 00:25:45.539
when I was in the Navy at 21 years old. And I'm

00:25:45.539 --> 00:25:48.640
so grateful that was the first phone I had. We

00:25:48.640 --> 00:25:50.880
had dial -up internet when I was, I think when

00:25:50.880 --> 00:25:54.619
I turned 17, we got dial -up internet. And it

00:25:54.619 --> 00:25:56.880
was pretty much useless out in the middle of

00:25:56.880 --> 00:25:59.619
nowhere. So I didn't spend any time on the computer.

00:25:59.759 --> 00:26:01.819
And it didn't hinder me down the road. I feel

00:26:01.819 --> 00:26:03.700
like we're part of that last generation, that

00:26:03.700 --> 00:26:07.970
last group, that subset of the population. didn't

00:26:07.970 --> 00:26:11.210
grow up with all these distractions and all this

00:26:11.210 --> 00:26:15.930
propaganda, hate, you know, just everything that

00:26:15.930 --> 00:26:21.549
comes with, with that, with technology. I'm jumping

00:26:21.549 --> 00:26:22.930
ahead. Cause we haven't even gone into your military

00:26:22.930 --> 00:26:25.829
career yet, but just from a kind of philosophical

00:26:25.829 --> 00:26:30.769
lens for a moment, when you look at our medical

00:26:30.769 --> 00:26:34.670
system or disease care system, we've got a description.

00:26:37.349 --> 00:26:40.549
With it being a profit -based system, you have

00:26:40.549 --> 00:26:42.750
to wonder where are the checks and balances as

00:26:42.750 --> 00:26:45.670
far as forging health in this country. If people

00:26:45.670 --> 00:26:48.809
are making a lot of money from ill health, then

00:26:48.809 --> 00:26:51.490
how do we really push health? Because there's

00:26:51.490 --> 00:26:54.150
no money in healthy people. Someone pointed out

00:26:54.150 --> 00:26:55.849
recently there is money in preventative care

00:26:55.849 --> 00:26:57.809
and CrossFit and all these other things. But

00:26:57.809 --> 00:27:00.710
from a drug company point of view, there's no

00:27:00.710 --> 00:27:03.269
money in healthy people or dead people. But in

00:27:03.269 --> 00:27:05.740
the middle... There's a lot of money. Now, take

00:27:05.740 --> 00:27:08.920
that same philosophy and put it in war. You know,

00:27:08.940 --> 00:27:10.920
there are times in our history where obviously,

00:27:11.019 --> 00:27:13.640
hands down, we had to go and fight. I think World

00:27:13.640 --> 00:27:16.140
War Two is always a good example of that. But

00:27:16.140 --> 00:27:17.960
there are other times where, you know, when people

00:27:17.960 --> 00:27:21.339
reflect after, for example, 20 years, there's

00:27:21.339 --> 00:27:23.299
some questions of, you know, why were we there

00:27:23.299 --> 00:27:25.079
and were the things that we were told correct?

00:27:25.839 --> 00:27:28.900
And so what do we learn from that? And so my

00:27:28.900 --> 00:27:31.490
question is, where? Where are the checks and

00:27:31.490 --> 00:27:33.730
balances when we have all these corporations

00:27:33.730 --> 00:27:36.250
that make a huge amount of money when our young

00:27:36.250 --> 00:27:39.269
men and women are out there fighting to stop

00:27:39.269 --> 00:27:44.589
wars unless absolutely necessary? Yeah, well,

00:27:44.769 --> 00:27:47.509
the health care piece is funny. We talked about

00:27:47.509 --> 00:27:50.470
that, too, because I was a medic and I became

00:27:50.470 --> 00:27:52.990
a combat medic in the SEAL teams. That was one

00:27:52.990 --> 00:27:55.730
of my collateral duties. When I got out of the

00:27:55.730 --> 00:27:58.750
Navy, I thought, naturally, I should go back

00:27:58.750 --> 00:28:01.670
into medicine. so i did i finished my degree

00:28:01.670 --> 00:28:04.849
in allied health i got my bachelor's at gvsu

00:28:04.849 --> 00:28:08.650
and then i applied for medical school and you

00:28:08.650 --> 00:28:10.329
know you sign a lot of statements saying you're

00:28:10.329 --> 00:28:12.190
not going to talk about the interview process

00:28:12.190 --> 00:28:15.289
and and you know what it takes to get accepted

00:28:15.289 --> 00:28:20.529
but all i'll say is that interview process was

00:28:20.529 --> 00:28:24.630
about politics right it was not about it was

00:28:24.630 --> 00:28:29.910
not about um Differential diagnosis. It had nothing

00:28:29.910 --> 00:28:34.789
to do with mental health. The issues that they

00:28:34.789 --> 00:28:36.930
wanted to talk about in that interview process

00:28:36.930 --> 00:28:42.349
were, just like you said, making a profit, turning

00:28:42.349 --> 00:28:45.650
a profit. It was about racial divides in the

00:28:45.650 --> 00:28:50.589
country. It was about agendas and narratives,

00:28:50.809 --> 00:28:53.009
popular agendas and narratives that are being

00:28:53.009 --> 00:28:58.250
debated and discussed. It just wasn't about health

00:28:58.250 --> 00:29:00.170
care. And I thought that's what it was going

00:29:00.170 --> 00:29:01.890
to be about, because in the military, if you're

00:29:01.890 --> 00:29:05.769
a combat medic, there's no incentive to save

00:29:05.769 --> 00:29:08.190
your teammates life other than saving your teammates

00:29:08.190 --> 00:29:11.369
life. You don't get a bonus for it. You don't

00:29:11.369 --> 00:29:13.730
you know, you don't you don't prescribe medications

00:29:13.730 --> 00:29:15.750
and then get a kickback at the end of the year.

00:29:15.809 --> 00:29:17.930
Right. You you do these things because it's your

00:29:17.930 --> 00:29:20.269
teammate and that's what you're that's your duty

00:29:20.269 --> 00:29:25.289
to your teammates. Right. And then if you extrapolate

00:29:25.289 --> 00:29:28.599
that out to the. So the military and just big

00:29:28.599 --> 00:29:32.119
military and entering new conflicts and wars.

00:29:32.380 --> 00:29:35.400
Yeah, I think they I think they use the military

00:29:35.400 --> 00:29:40.920
machine to generate money. I think they we saw

00:29:40.920 --> 00:29:42.759
that right with the Industrial Revolution. We

00:29:42.759 --> 00:29:48.779
saw how, you know, we upped production of machinery,

00:29:49.180 --> 00:29:53.740
you know, weapons, vehicles, clothing industry,

00:29:53.940 --> 00:29:59.660
like everything. benefits from money -wise in

00:29:59.660 --> 00:30:03.079
a war. Then you ask yourself, well, what are

00:30:03.079 --> 00:30:05.940
we doing over there then? Is that what we're

00:30:05.940 --> 00:30:09.920
doing? We're stimulating an economy? You don't

00:30:09.920 --> 00:30:13.460
ask those questions after something like 9 -11.

00:30:14.839 --> 00:30:20.599
I didn't. I know that I didn't. How do I sleep

00:30:20.599 --> 00:30:23.680
at night? I say, well, there's a lot of bad people

00:30:23.680 --> 00:30:26.559
in the world. Ridding the world of bad people

00:30:26.559 --> 00:30:31.160
is never a bad thing. If they're causing harm,

00:30:31.420 --> 00:30:34.700
I mean, if you go to the Middle East, it's no

00:30:34.700 --> 00:30:39.519
secret that they behead women and children overseas

00:30:39.519 --> 00:30:42.660
and they don't want them educated. We work very

00:30:42.660 --> 00:30:48.049
hard for women's rights here in America. I do

00:30:48.049 --> 00:30:50.329
think there's a little bit of world policing

00:30:50.329 --> 00:30:53.630
that has to happen on our, that falls on our

00:30:53.630 --> 00:30:58.069
shoulders, right? As a superpower with values

00:30:58.069 --> 00:31:03.269
that we don't outgrow, right? But yeah, to what

00:31:03.269 --> 00:31:07.009
degree we involve ourselves, that's a really

00:31:07.009 --> 00:31:09.210
tricky question. And you start to wonder whose

00:31:09.210 --> 00:31:12.769
pockets are being lined with certain conflicts,

00:31:13.049 --> 00:31:16.829
you know? Yeah, I think this is just, you know,

00:31:16.829 --> 00:31:19.890
having heard, I mean, I've had 1100 plus conversations

00:31:19.890 --> 00:31:25.589
now, a lot of whom were veterans. And, you know,

00:31:25.609 --> 00:31:27.309
there's I always ask this question, I'll ask

00:31:27.309 --> 00:31:29.829
you in a second, you know, about the kindness

00:31:29.829 --> 00:31:31.869
and compassion that you see as well when you're

00:31:31.869 --> 00:31:33.710
in conflict. So there's so much good that are

00:31:33.710 --> 00:31:36.170
done by the men and women on the floor at that

00:31:36.170 --> 00:31:39.849
point. But, you know, there's also this kind

00:31:39.849 --> 00:31:42.250
of guilt and shame and all these, you know, the.

00:31:43.210 --> 00:31:46.289
You know, the withdrawal, for example, all the

00:31:46.289 --> 00:31:48.289
allies that were left behind, you know, and their

00:31:48.289 --> 00:31:51.450
families were slaughtered. And so the decisions

00:31:51.450 --> 00:31:53.650
of some of these people to send our, you know,

00:31:53.670 --> 00:31:55.609
boys and girls, not their boys and girls, our

00:31:55.609 --> 00:32:00.309
boys and girls overseas to fight. It should happen

00:32:00.309 --> 00:32:02.329
if it's absolutely needed. But I mean, I think

00:32:02.329 --> 00:32:05.650
now I hope there's an awakening happening nationally

00:32:05.650 --> 00:32:09.400
where. Again, as we talked before we hit record,

00:32:09.480 --> 00:32:11.299
that kind of middle ground where people go, yeah,

00:32:11.339 --> 00:32:12.920
it's not black and white. It's not we'll never,

00:32:12.960 --> 00:32:15.539
ever go to war. But at the same time, where is

00:32:15.539 --> 00:32:17.680
that line? Where is that line for diplomacy?

00:32:18.079 --> 00:32:20.619
And where is that line where we send we go all

00:32:20.619 --> 00:32:24.700
in with our military? You're asking me where

00:32:24.700 --> 00:32:27.230
I think that line is? No, no, no, no. It was

00:32:27.230 --> 00:32:31.829
more metaphorical. Yeah. I need latitude. Lines

00:32:31.829 --> 00:32:35.849
of latitude, please. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah,

00:32:36.150 --> 00:32:42.730
it's very tough. I think you have to weigh the

00:32:42.730 --> 00:32:46.089
problems, right? Like, I guess that's what I

00:32:46.089 --> 00:32:48.970
do. You weigh your own problems in your own household.

00:32:49.710 --> 00:32:53.930
You know, I have to, okay, I have to. This this

00:32:53.930 --> 00:32:56.369
week, I have to get A, B and C accomplished.

00:32:56.430 --> 00:32:59.309
You know, I prioritize those things. And then

00:32:59.309 --> 00:33:01.990
I'm also getting static from over here where

00:33:01.990 --> 00:33:04.809
this person is asking me for that. And you have

00:33:04.809 --> 00:33:07.230
to say no to somebody. You have to because you

00:33:07.230 --> 00:33:09.109
don't have enough time and resources for everybody

00:33:09.109 --> 00:33:12.690
and everything. Right. And I feel like there

00:33:12.690 --> 00:33:16.450
are probably. There's probably more recently

00:33:16.450 --> 00:33:20.089
been a lot of times where we have pretty significant

00:33:20.089 --> 00:33:23.960
problems internal to the United States. Homeless,

00:33:23.960 --> 00:33:28.039
crime. We touched on it in our health care system.

00:33:28.279 --> 00:33:31.099
We've got so many things that need revamped.

00:33:31.960 --> 00:33:35.039
And I think that's where people also get upset

00:33:35.039 --> 00:33:37.500
is that they know that we have these things that

00:33:37.500 --> 00:33:40.339
need to be overhauled and fixed and solved here

00:33:40.339 --> 00:33:44.339
inside of the United States. And then we're overseas.

00:33:46.279 --> 00:33:48.480
putting ourselves, sticking our noses in other

00:33:48.480 --> 00:33:51.819
places. And it's not all bad. I mean, a lot of

00:33:51.819 --> 00:33:54.119
the things that we're doing outside of the United

00:33:54.119 --> 00:33:58.640
States, out of our country lines is good. But

00:33:58.640 --> 00:34:02.720
the question is, you know, how do we solve things

00:34:02.720 --> 00:34:05.799
here when we're putting so many resources towards

00:34:05.799 --> 00:34:08.860
this? Why are we doing that? And those questions

00:34:08.860 --> 00:34:11.019
come up and we just haven't been getting good

00:34:11.019 --> 00:34:14.400
answers as to why we're doing that, right? i

00:34:14.400 --> 00:34:17.119
don't think anybody would disagree that bin laden

00:34:17.119 --> 00:34:20.780
needed to go away right like nobody's gonna argue

00:34:20.780 --> 00:34:24.079
that and they they shouldn't and uh and that

00:34:24.079 --> 00:34:28.559
goes with uh you know saddam you know letting

00:34:28.559 --> 00:34:31.780
that regime go there was no harm there right

00:34:31.780 --> 00:34:35.639
like that was a a very violent very sadistical

00:34:35.639 --> 00:34:40.550
regime but you start looking at the length the

00:34:40.550 --> 00:34:43.429
duration of time that we spend there and the

00:34:43.429 --> 00:34:47.909
the turnovers and you know giving the the local

00:34:47.909 --> 00:34:50.630
populace the ability the capabilities to defend

00:34:50.630 --> 00:34:53.230
themselves and yeah that's where it gets convoluted

00:34:53.230 --> 00:34:55.030
right and then I think people start making some

00:34:55.030 --> 00:34:58.070
money and then they start maybe we linger maybe

00:34:58.070 --> 00:35:01.449
we do this and maybe we maybe maybe it's strategic

00:35:01.449 --> 00:35:03.989
posturing for other things that down the road

00:35:03.989 --> 00:35:06.869
would make make money it's just it's yeah it's

00:35:06.869 --> 00:35:11.590
really It's beyond my wherewithal, to be honest

00:35:11.590 --> 00:35:15.670
with you. There seems to be a common denominator

00:35:15.670 --> 00:35:18.750
that when we do spend too much time in a country,

00:35:18.929 --> 00:35:21.929
you have these people that were so pleased to

00:35:21.929 --> 00:35:25.090
see you year one and two, that then there's that

00:35:25.090 --> 00:35:27.269
feeling of an occupation and things seem to shift

00:35:27.269 --> 00:35:30.550
then. I've heard a lot of your community, Green

00:35:30.550 --> 00:35:34.349
Berets and some other people talking about, especially

00:35:34.349 --> 00:35:37.610
specifically to Afghanistan. And this is, you

00:35:37.610 --> 00:35:38.949
know, completely unrelated. They're not talking

00:35:38.949 --> 00:35:40.650
to each other, but there's a feeling that if

00:35:40.650 --> 00:35:43.489
the special operations, special forces communities

00:35:43.489 --> 00:35:47.070
had gone in, been able to enact, you know, removing

00:35:47.070 --> 00:35:49.110
certain targets, like you said, shutting down

00:35:49.110 --> 00:35:52.530
training camps and then coming out again, that

00:35:52.530 --> 00:35:54.650
that would have been a leaner, more efficient

00:35:54.650 --> 00:35:58.210
way of some of these conflicts being, you know,

00:35:58.210 --> 00:36:00.809
so involved in that particular community. What

00:36:00.809 --> 00:36:03.289
is your perspective of, you know, empowering

00:36:03.289 --> 00:36:07.280
teams like yours to go in? more surgically rather

00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:09.539
than putting big army in over and over again.

00:36:09.820 --> 00:36:14.719
Yeah. Well, I, I agree with that. And I, I think

00:36:14.719 --> 00:36:18.039
that that's one, those are the guys that actually,

00:36:18.099 --> 00:36:21.219
they volunteer for those programs, right? Like

00:36:21.219 --> 00:36:24.380
special operations programs are, are volunteer

00:36:24.380 --> 00:36:27.539
programs. So when you go in and you become a

00:36:27.539 --> 00:36:32.119
68 whiskey, a medic in the army, right? You know

00:36:32.119 --> 00:36:35.900
what your left and right flanks are. in black

00:36:35.900 --> 00:36:39.599
and white but just like me i went in and i became

00:36:39.599 --> 00:36:43.219
a corpsman then i said i want to try out to be

00:36:43.219 --> 00:36:46.099
a seal right and you take on a little bit more

00:36:46.099 --> 00:36:49.300
autonomy a little bit more responsibility you

00:36:49.300 --> 00:36:52.900
get to kind of you get to make make what you

00:36:52.900 --> 00:36:56.480
want of your career and those guys they enlisted

00:36:57.119 --> 00:36:59.300
especially during a time of war, to go to war

00:36:59.300 --> 00:37:01.460
and to fight those wars and be on the front line.

00:37:01.900 --> 00:37:04.519
And this probably dives into our mental health

00:37:04.519 --> 00:37:05.820
where we're putting a lot of people on the front

00:37:05.820 --> 00:37:07.340
line that didn't want to be on the front line.

00:37:07.440 --> 00:37:08.840
They wanted to serve their country, but they

00:37:08.840 --> 00:37:12.260
weren't necessarily prepared or equipped to be

00:37:12.260 --> 00:37:16.440
on the front line. So I think one, special operations

00:37:16.440 --> 00:37:20.480
is a better tool for that type of thing. Two,

00:37:20.659 --> 00:37:23.860
the guys that are in special operations, that's

00:37:23.860 --> 00:37:26.219
actually the role they want, right? So you clean

00:37:26.219 --> 00:37:28.840
up. some of the mental health issues in our us

00:37:28.840 --> 00:37:32.019
military by putting the people in roles that

00:37:32.019 --> 00:37:35.719
in places they belong right it's uh it's uh like

00:37:35.719 --> 00:37:38.840
uh driving the driving the school bus you know

00:37:38.840 --> 00:37:41.500
what i mean like you put kids in the right seats

00:37:41.500 --> 00:37:45.059
in the school bus right you don't put bad kids

00:37:45.059 --> 00:37:47.639
in the back of the bus where there's no oversight.

00:37:47.860 --> 00:37:50.460
You know what I mean? You don't put one kid that

00:37:50.460 --> 00:37:52.719
gets picked on all the time. You don't put him

00:37:52.719 --> 00:37:55.059
with the bully. You know, you put kids in the

00:37:55.059 --> 00:38:00.019
right seat in the bus so that there's some cohesion

00:38:00.019 --> 00:38:03.019
and you can get places efficiently and effectively,

00:38:03.260 --> 00:38:05.880
right, and be productive. The military needs

00:38:05.880 --> 00:38:08.420
to be run similarly. We need to put the right

00:38:08.420 --> 00:38:11.239
people in the right roles. And then that goes

00:38:11.239 --> 00:38:13.900
to how are special operations being utilized?

00:38:15.130 --> 00:38:19.389
I was packing a war bag in a suit on deployments

00:38:19.389 --> 00:38:22.369
because I didn't know if I was going to go to

00:38:22.369 --> 00:38:25.829
an embassy or if I was going to be going on target.

00:38:26.489 --> 00:38:29.409
Now, luckily, I wasn't going to an embassy, but

00:38:29.409 --> 00:38:34.050
we had to prepare for that, right? Because now

00:38:34.050 --> 00:38:37.170
the world wants, especially if you're a SEAL

00:38:37.170 --> 00:38:40.130
Team 6 operator, they want you in every corner

00:38:40.130 --> 00:38:43.889
of the world. They want a Tier 1 operator. in

00:38:43.889 --> 00:38:47.070
every theater every corner of the world in every

00:38:47.070 --> 00:38:50.530
every room right so they can they can say okay

00:38:50.530 --> 00:38:52.889
we have a guy to do that right and you're not

00:38:52.889 --> 00:38:55.730
being properly employed you know we should be

00:38:55.730 --> 00:38:59.349
on the front line doing you know being um you

00:38:59.349 --> 00:39:03.210
know targeting objectives right we should be

00:39:03.210 --> 00:39:06.530
towing the mark and uh so i think that's a little

00:39:06.530 --> 00:39:08.869
bit of it is that we're over employed because

00:39:08.869 --> 00:39:13.760
we're over employed over utilized in roles that

00:39:13.760 --> 00:39:16.699
we don't even belong in for one. I shouldn't

00:39:16.699 --> 00:39:19.380
be in an embassy. Anybody like me necessarily

00:39:19.380 --> 00:39:22.280
at that pay grade talking about strategy and

00:39:22.280 --> 00:39:24.880
tactics and politics, right? I mean, I should

00:39:24.880 --> 00:39:27.940
be out there on the ground. So they're using

00:39:27.940 --> 00:39:32.559
some of their resources inappropriately, in my

00:39:32.559 --> 00:39:36.530
opinion. I touched on the question before, but

00:39:36.530 --> 00:39:38.510
I'll kind of circle around to it now. You know,

00:39:38.530 --> 00:39:40.369
you talked about some of the horrors that obviously

00:39:40.369 --> 00:39:45.409
are happening in certain areas. One area I think

00:39:45.409 --> 00:39:48.670
also gets very little. airtime when it comes

00:39:48.670 --> 00:39:51.869
to our very kind of left or right leaning media

00:39:51.869 --> 00:39:54.849
is kindness. And I hear, I've heard so many stories

00:39:54.849 --> 00:39:56.789
of kindness and compassion, whether it's by the

00:39:56.789 --> 00:39:59.550
indigenous people themselves towards their own

00:39:59.550 --> 00:40:01.469
people or our soldiers, or whether it's, you

00:40:01.469 --> 00:40:04.030
know, our people towards them. When you reflect

00:40:04.030 --> 00:40:06.610
back now in your entire career, what are moments

00:40:06.610 --> 00:40:08.449
of kindness and compassion that really stand

00:40:08.449 --> 00:40:14.809
out? Yeah, I think for me, you know, we ran a

00:40:14.809 --> 00:40:18.030
sick call medic in Afghanistan. So we didn't

00:40:18.030 --> 00:40:20.829
have to run a sick call medic, but we did. And

00:40:20.829 --> 00:40:24.389
those were, at least in my opinion, those were

00:40:24.389 --> 00:40:26.530
moments of compassion, right? Like we were there

00:40:26.530 --> 00:40:29.550
to create white space, push Taliban out of Taliban

00:40:29.550 --> 00:40:33.809
held areas. And you could use a sick call clinic

00:40:33.809 --> 00:40:36.909
for many, many ways, many different things, right?

00:40:37.010 --> 00:40:39.050
Like you could get information from folks. You

00:40:39.050 --> 00:40:41.349
could run, have hours of operation just to have

00:40:41.349 --> 00:40:43.230
people come in and tell you what's going on in

00:40:43.230 --> 00:40:47.349
the village or in the valley, right? You know,

00:40:47.369 --> 00:40:50.690
the people over there, they're especially the

00:40:50.690 --> 00:40:53.909
kids, they're they're under they're undertreated.

00:40:54.110 --> 00:40:57.070
Right. A lot of them have just they're a mess

00:40:57.070 --> 00:40:59.929
health care wise. So us running a sick call clinic

00:40:59.929 --> 00:41:02.630
and having them come in and then you realizing

00:41:02.630 --> 00:41:04.849
that like you're doing a different job. You're

00:41:04.849 --> 00:41:08.530
not the soldier. You're treating somebody. I

00:41:08.530 --> 00:41:10.909
saw that a lot just across the entire theater,

00:41:11.050 --> 00:41:14.139
not just our clinic. Our tent, it wasn't a clinic,

00:41:14.159 --> 00:41:16.679
it was a tent for all purposes, right? A little

00:41:16.679 --> 00:41:20.440
Indiana Jones tent. But I think across the theaters,

00:41:20.519 --> 00:41:23.900
you see that, right? You see that we are over

00:41:23.900 --> 00:41:26.340
there doing good. That's back to that doing good,

00:41:26.460 --> 00:41:29.280
right? Is there any harm in ridding the world

00:41:29.280 --> 00:41:33.159
of bad guys? No. Is there any harm in providing

00:41:33.159 --> 00:41:37.019
medical aid to underserved and underprivileged?

00:41:37.219 --> 00:41:39.849
No. so those are the things that we're doing

00:41:39.849 --> 00:41:43.110
as a as the us military and the government that's

00:41:43.110 --> 00:41:45.010
the good that we're doing over there that doesn't

00:41:45.010 --> 00:41:47.429
get talked about instead we we know what gets

00:41:47.429 --> 00:41:49.869
highlighted right the stuff that gets more publicity

00:41:49.869 --> 00:41:54.989
i mean i saw the boxes and boxes of um of hats

00:41:54.989 --> 00:41:58.050
and gloves and clothes for the kids my my wife

00:41:58.050 --> 00:42:00.869
when i was in afghanistan she sent my ex -wife

00:42:00.869 --> 00:42:03.510
now but my wife then she had she sent a whole

00:42:03.510 --> 00:42:08.309
tote full of stuff right and Now, they were all

00:42:08.309 --> 00:42:11.429
kids' clothes, and I'll admit, the next day,

00:42:11.449 --> 00:42:15.489
I saw adults wearing kids' clothes, right? Because

00:42:15.489 --> 00:42:21.090
that's how a lot of the men in that theater treat,

00:42:21.250 --> 00:42:23.369
you know, the women and the children, again,

00:42:23.750 --> 00:42:28.369
right? But we definitely put more things into

00:42:28.369 --> 00:42:30.650
the communities there, right, helping folks out.

00:42:30.769 --> 00:42:34.289
So those were probably the most significant acts

00:42:34.289 --> 00:42:38.780
of compassion. other things were just stuff that

00:42:38.780 --> 00:42:42.500
wouldn't be more obvious like um we had a we

00:42:42.500 --> 00:42:45.300
had uh this group they were counter mine reconnaissance

00:42:45.300 --> 00:42:48.800
group and they would basically go with us out

00:42:48.800 --> 00:42:52.019
on patrol and sweep for for landmines and they

00:42:52.019 --> 00:42:54.579
would reduce them get rid of ieds and stuff and

00:42:54.579 --> 00:42:59.119
they saved countless lives not just afghani but

00:42:59.119 --> 00:43:04.860
um americans and you know those were i saw those

00:43:04.860 --> 00:43:09.559
guys go in front of us and take unnecessary risk

00:43:09.559 --> 00:43:11.400
because they felt like we were there helping

00:43:11.400 --> 00:43:14.880
them. So you get back to that, like, well, what

00:43:14.880 --> 00:43:17.340
are we there for? Well, they know what we're

00:43:17.340 --> 00:43:20.099
there for because they're willing to die for

00:43:20.099 --> 00:43:23.420
us. They're out in front sweeping for mines because

00:43:23.420 --> 00:43:26.039
they know what the U .S. military presence is

00:43:26.039 --> 00:43:29.559
doing for their communities, right? So that was

00:43:29.559 --> 00:43:32.619
some of the more compassionate examples, I guess,

00:43:32.639 --> 00:43:37.329
overseas that I witnessed. Beautiful. Yeah, you

00:43:37.329 --> 00:43:39.670
hear over and over again that shared humanity,

00:43:39.849 --> 00:43:41.869
you know, when they're sitting down and whatever

00:43:41.869 --> 00:43:44.769
nation and they're inviting the soldiers in for

00:43:44.769 --> 00:43:47.530
food and tea. And it's just, you know, they watch

00:43:47.530 --> 00:43:49.489
the kids playing football and dad's fixing the

00:43:49.489 --> 00:43:50.949
car. And then there's this kind of like, oh,

00:43:50.949 --> 00:43:53.269
this could be, you know, back home. This could

00:43:53.269 --> 00:43:55.869
be, you know, Florida or, you know, wherever.

00:43:57.230 --> 00:44:00.010
Flipping it around on the other side for a moment,

00:44:00.030 --> 00:44:03.760
because you. We're targeting specific people

00:44:03.760 --> 00:44:05.539
and obviously getting a lot of intelligence as

00:44:05.539 --> 00:44:07.659
far as background. So you could plan removing

00:44:07.659 --> 00:44:11.599
the individual. Did you over this pretty, you

00:44:11.599 --> 00:44:14.260
know, story career that you have see any common

00:44:14.260 --> 00:44:17.420
denominators as to how these people from different

00:44:17.420 --> 00:44:20.619
backgrounds became the same kind of, you know,

00:44:20.639 --> 00:44:25.159
evil, evil human being? Yeah, I think a lot of

00:44:25.159 --> 00:44:27.320
it is just fear mongering. I think that they

00:44:27.320 --> 00:44:31.909
part of it is that. it's propaganda it's what

00:44:31.909 --> 00:44:35.329
they're it's blind faith right not being allowed

00:44:35.329 --> 00:44:38.889
to question anything and then the other piece

00:44:38.889 --> 00:44:41.949
is just that they're not as they're not as i

00:44:41.949 --> 00:44:43.250
don't even want to i don't want to say civilized

00:44:43.250 --> 00:44:46.309
but they're not as advanced as advanced as us

00:44:46.309 --> 00:44:50.710
like i remember landing in the valley in afghanistan

00:44:50.710 --> 00:44:54.329
and they had an oxen out there with a with a

00:44:54.329 --> 00:44:57.809
plow hook to it they're breaking ground with

00:44:57.809 --> 00:45:01.280
animals and i was like holy cow like i wrote

00:45:01.280 --> 00:45:04.340
back home and i said you got to tell grandpa

00:45:04.340 --> 00:45:07.099
that they're breaking ground with animals in

00:45:07.099 --> 00:45:10.579
old old plows hooked these animals out here it

00:45:10.579 --> 00:45:12.900
blew my mind that that's where they were at because

00:45:12.900 --> 00:45:14.719
i grew up farming right i mean we're talking

00:45:14.719 --> 00:45:18.500
about you know i saw milk parlors where you know

00:45:18.500 --> 00:45:21.239
30 cattle come in at a time you got 15 on both

00:45:21.239 --> 00:45:23.880
sides and your automatic takeoffs on milkers

00:45:23.880 --> 00:45:26.659
and and john deere equipment that costs you know

00:45:26.659 --> 00:45:31.179
half a million dollars You know, we have such

00:45:31.179 --> 00:45:35.460
a leg up in terms of just like our technology

00:45:35.460 --> 00:45:40.960
and money and access to things that they don't

00:45:40.960 --> 00:45:43.880
have there. So that limits them, their ideology

00:45:43.880 --> 00:45:49.199
limits them, and then just their culture in general,

00:45:49.360 --> 00:45:52.139
right? When you're that far behind, I think it

00:45:52.139 --> 00:45:55.920
takes a long time to break those norms, right?

00:45:58.119 --> 00:46:00.519
Absolutely. You just made me think of something

00:46:00.519 --> 00:46:05.179
else as well. I'll compare it to what was the

00:46:05.179 --> 00:46:07.539
I forget the documentary is one of the I think

00:46:07.539 --> 00:46:11.059
it was a John Gotti case. And you saw how the

00:46:11.059 --> 00:46:13.719
different kind of letter agencies and the local

00:46:13.719 --> 00:46:17.239
law enforcement in New York. There was a lot

00:46:17.239 --> 00:46:20.300
of kind of issues with ego and these organizations

00:46:20.300 --> 00:46:22.420
weren't communicating with each other and it

00:46:22.420 --> 00:46:24.039
was at the detriment. It took longer and longer

00:46:24.039 --> 00:46:26.400
and longer to catch him. And then when you look

00:46:26.400 --> 00:46:29.099
at some of the documentaries on Bin Laden and

00:46:29.099 --> 00:46:31.340
9 -11 and some of these other areas, there are

00:46:31.340 --> 00:46:35.920
also elements of that. So from a leadership point

00:46:35.920 --> 00:46:40.219
of view, talk to me about humility and communication

00:46:40.219 --> 00:46:42.239
because you have such a kind of tip of the spear

00:46:42.239 --> 00:46:45.619
lens on this particular conversation. Yeah, well,

00:46:45.699 --> 00:46:47.340
I think this is something that we can do better.

00:46:47.400 --> 00:46:49.639
I think we are doing better now than we were

00:46:49.639 --> 00:46:52.019
10 years ago. And 10 years ago, we were probably

00:46:52.019 --> 00:46:54.900
better than we were 20 years ago. But it's not

00:46:54.900 --> 00:46:58.320
a secret that we don't play well with others.

00:46:58.539 --> 00:47:02.780
And that is within our own organization, right?

00:47:03.059 --> 00:47:06.880
So, you know, there's always Army -Navy feuds.

00:47:07.260 --> 00:47:11.320
There's always agency versus military feuds,

00:47:11.340 --> 00:47:14.739
right? they're like the first thing you get briefed

00:47:14.739 --> 00:47:17.699
on when you come into country right it's like

00:47:17.699 --> 00:47:20.099
hey this guy doesn't play well with others hey

00:47:20.099 --> 00:47:22.900
this guy's an and he he's not going to work with

00:47:22.900 --> 00:47:25.880
you or blah blah blah or that agency this this

00:47:25.880 --> 00:47:30.619
unit um we're getting better at that because

00:47:30.619 --> 00:47:35.119
there's there's more scrutiny right and i think

00:47:35.119 --> 00:47:37.139
that goes with technology there's there's more

00:47:37.139 --> 00:47:41.579
eyes on on us now so when something falls apart

00:47:42.389 --> 00:47:45.369
we're starting to do a better job of asking the

00:47:45.369 --> 00:47:48.269
why. Why did that fall apart? And you're not

00:47:48.269 --> 00:47:51.710
going to avoid the question because we had ISR

00:47:51.710 --> 00:47:56.630
up, right? Or we had people internal that talked

00:47:56.630 --> 00:47:59.690
about, are talking about it, right? So we're

00:47:59.690 --> 00:48:02.030
doing a better job debriefing and saying, well,

00:48:02.190 --> 00:48:05.230
we could have communicated with State Department

00:48:05.230 --> 00:48:07.190
a little bit better. We could have done this.

00:48:07.269 --> 00:48:09.150
We could have done that. And that slowly turns

00:48:09.150 --> 00:48:13.820
into better communication. Even if it is for

00:48:13.820 --> 00:48:17.079
nothing other than to avoid more conflict. Right.

00:48:17.099 --> 00:48:19.780
And getting getting your pee pee slapped in a

00:48:19.780 --> 00:48:23.099
sense. Right. Like we we you don't want to be

00:48:23.099 --> 00:48:26.599
over over critiqued all the time. Right. Well,

00:48:26.719 --> 00:48:29.380
how do we mitigate that? OK, well, we communicate

00:48:29.380 --> 00:48:32.099
better and we don't get our pee pee slapped over

00:48:32.099 --> 00:48:34.420
everything. You know, maybe we share with this

00:48:34.420 --> 00:48:38.679
person. But and I saw that I saw where people.

00:48:39.230 --> 00:48:41.150
didn't want to talk with us didn't want to give

00:48:41.150 --> 00:48:44.269
us information right and and i saw it on our

00:48:44.269 --> 00:48:47.570
side don't tell them anything you know we we

00:48:47.570 --> 00:48:52.690
do it um i think yeah i think we do it even here

00:48:52.690 --> 00:48:55.170
stateside in civilian sectors right i see it

00:48:55.170 --> 00:48:57.670
with i see it with martial arts academies no

00:48:57.670 --> 00:49:00.230
no don't tell them what we do over here you know

00:49:00.230 --> 00:49:02.409
what i mean like we're a comp this put this place

00:49:02.409 --> 00:49:04.329
is a comp team and we do different stuff blah

00:49:04.329 --> 00:49:09.059
blah blah don't tell our secrets oh come on internet

00:49:09.059 --> 00:49:11.539
internet's already pulled them all you know but

00:49:11.539 --> 00:49:14.320
yeah so i think we're doing better i think the

00:49:14.320 --> 00:49:16.559
army and then in the navy especially at the tier

00:49:16.559 --> 00:49:19.119
one level i think they're doing a really good

00:49:19.119 --> 00:49:22.659
job communicating with each other um i think

00:49:22.659 --> 00:49:25.920
the bin laden raid was an example of that too

00:49:25.920 --> 00:49:28.800
i think there was good communication there um

00:49:28.800 --> 00:49:32.579
we obviously did a better job communicating because

00:49:32.579 --> 00:49:35.500
we finally got him right and sometimes that means

00:49:35.500 --> 00:49:40.000
lack of communication So there was a little bit

00:49:40.000 --> 00:49:42.599
of that too. There was over -communicating going

00:49:42.599 --> 00:49:46.340
on for a while, which ends up being lies and

00:49:46.340 --> 00:49:52.380
leaks and everything else. I've seen where ego

00:49:52.380 --> 00:49:56.179
has been hugely detrimental in my, you know.

00:49:56.590 --> 00:49:58.730
professions, plurals, the first responder profession.

00:49:58.929 --> 00:50:02.250
So whether it's personally seeing city and county

00:50:02.250 --> 00:50:04.690
fire departments, not wanting to even work with

00:50:04.690 --> 00:50:07.269
each other, arguing over whose jurisdiction it

00:50:07.269 --> 00:50:09.349
is, you know, all these kinds of things to then

00:50:09.349 --> 00:50:12.070
a more tragic example, obviously the egos that,

00:50:12.090 --> 00:50:13.829
you know, must've been in the leadership with

00:50:13.829 --> 00:50:18.489
the Evaldi disaster massacre. Um, and so in a,

00:50:18.489 --> 00:50:21.349
in professions where lives truly at stake, you

00:50:21.349 --> 00:50:25.230
know, humility is so important, but yet. This

00:50:25.230 --> 00:50:27.190
seems to be quite a common thing. I mean, a lot

00:50:27.190 --> 00:50:30.409
of places do have issues with arrogance, you

00:50:30.409 --> 00:50:32.590
know, all the way through the ladder. But I mean,

00:50:32.610 --> 00:50:34.449
the most dangerous places at the top, of course.

00:50:35.070 --> 00:50:38.889
How do we forge more humility so that we put

00:50:38.889 --> 00:50:40.909
the right people in these leadership positions,

00:50:41.170 --> 00:50:43.349
whether it's police, fire, EMS or the military?

00:50:45.389 --> 00:50:50.389
Yeah, I think I know for me, it was role models,

00:50:50.489 --> 00:50:53.949
right? Like we need better role models. In the

00:50:53.949 --> 00:50:55.889
world, that's just that's all there is to it.

00:50:55.909 --> 00:50:58.150
I think we're short on them right now, like really

00:50:58.150 --> 00:51:02.130
short on good role models. And when I was a kid,

00:51:02.150 --> 00:51:04.610
I feel like there was a ton of them. I mean,

00:51:04.650 --> 00:51:07.170
I had role models at home. I had role models

00:51:07.170 --> 00:51:09.849
in this extended family that I looked up to.

00:51:10.210 --> 00:51:13.409
I, you know, in pop culture, I had role models.

00:51:13.449 --> 00:51:16.210
You know, I had there were kids at school that

00:51:16.210 --> 00:51:19.190
I looked up to that were older than me that had

00:51:19.190 --> 00:51:22.170
achieved things and just to me represented what

00:51:22.170 --> 00:51:25.070
I wanted to be. Right. And I think now we're

00:51:25.070 --> 00:51:31.969
I think we're on a world stage just highlighting

00:51:31.969 --> 00:51:35.570
the wrong people. And that's resulting in. So

00:51:35.570 --> 00:51:39.610
the people that we're highlighting are influencing

00:51:39.610 --> 00:51:43.190
all the incoming human beings. Right. All the

00:51:43.190 --> 00:51:46.050
all the young kids that are that are developing

00:51:46.050 --> 00:51:50.650
and they're they're building their idea of what.

00:51:51.630 --> 00:51:54.949
A good person looks like it's, it's so skewed.

00:51:54.989 --> 00:51:57.869
It's so crazy. And it's unrealistic. It's, it's

00:51:57.869 --> 00:52:01.389
an influencer with, you know, a different filter

00:52:01.389 --> 00:52:04.329
on every time you see a picture of them or they're,

00:52:04.329 --> 00:52:06.469
they're, you know, they're saying things to just

00:52:06.469 --> 00:52:09.150
get likes and subscribes and all that. They're,

00:52:09.150 --> 00:52:11.289
they're not authentic. We don't have any authentic

00:52:11.289 --> 00:52:15.550
people right now. Right. And I, and I think the

00:52:15.550 --> 00:52:18.289
authentic people we have are looked at as a little

00:52:18.289 --> 00:52:21.500
extremist, right? Because they're. They're so

00:52:21.500 --> 00:52:23.820
opinionated. They're so strongly opinionated

00:52:23.820 --> 00:52:26.059
that you're like, geez, that's an extremist.

00:52:26.079 --> 00:52:28.039
I don't want to be like that either, right? Because

00:52:28.039 --> 00:52:31.940
they get so much scrutiny from people. But I

00:52:31.940 --> 00:52:35.039
think that's how we fix that is through role

00:52:35.039 --> 00:52:38.159
models. We need to start highlighting as a country

00:52:38.159 --> 00:52:40.420
and as just the world in general, we need to

00:52:40.420 --> 00:52:41.960
start highlighting the right people. We need

00:52:41.960 --> 00:52:45.960
to start saying, hey, this person corrected these

00:52:45.960 --> 00:52:49.070
issues. Let's commend them for that. right this

00:52:49.070 --> 00:52:53.110
is what the influencer thing is a big piece of

00:52:53.110 --> 00:52:56.210
it i think that the the access you know to social

00:52:56.210 --> 00:53:00.170
media that kids have today and you know i just

00:53:00.170 --> 00:53:02.690
don't think there's a lot of child parental parameters

00:53:02.690 --> 00:53:06.750
on on social media and the internet for kids

00:53:06.750 --> 00:53:09.550
and they they don't even know what they should

00:53:09.550 --> 00:53:12.989
be looking for so they get overwhelmed with the

00:53:12.989 --> 00:53:15.590
wrong thing and it's so hard to pick out the

00:53:15.590 --> 00:53:19.960
you know the john wayne right like it's it's

00:53:19.960 --> 00:53:21.960
hard for kids to see that figure now because

00:53:21.960 --> 00:53:27.179
it's lost in all of this other trash really yeah

00:53:27.179 --> 00:53:30.179
i think it's almost like the opposite they see

00:53:30.179 --> 00:53:31.960
the john wayne because that's your two -dimensional

00:53:31.960 --> 00:53:35.159
version of masculinity or whatever but then they're

00:53:35.159 --> 00:53:36.880
not able to see past that and be like wait a

00:53:36.880 --> 00:53:38.800
second that particular guy never even served

00:53:38.800 --> 00:53:41.719
that's not actually a soldier yeah i think it's

00:53:41.719 --> 00:53:44.199
the same you know with the the presidential seat

00:53:44.199 --> 00:53:46.460
and i'm talking like a decade plus couple of

00:53:46.460 --> 00:53:49.289
decades We used to, you know, one of the things

00:53:49.289 --> 00:53:51.929
that was said is one day you could even be president

00:53:51.929 --> 00:53:53.730
of the United States. You could even be the prime

00:53:53.730 --> 00:53:56.630
minister of the United Kingdom. And now you look

00:53:56.630 --> 00:54:00.869
recently like, oh, forget about that. Let's turn

00:54:00.869 --> 00:54:02.610
your head somewhere else because the way they're

00:54:02.610 --> 00:54:04.250
behaving, I don't want you to behave like that.

00:54:04.369 --> 00:54:05.869
I don't want you to talk about women like that.

00:54:05.889 --> 00:54:07.969
I don't want to talk about everyone having to

00:54:07.969 --> 00:54:09.789
have a vaccine like that, whatever the thing

00:54:09.789 --> 00:54:12.849
is from each side. And so I agree. I mean, when

00:54:12.849 --> 00:54:15.170
I grew up, there was a show called Blue Peter.

00:54:15.840 --> 00:54:18.079
We were little and it was just it was it was

00:54:18.079 --> 00:54:20.260
kind of informative, but it was always altruistic.

00:54:20.300 --> 00:54:22.360
You know, the Ethiopian famine, they would get

00:54:22.360 --> 00:54:24.519
us all to kind of do our own little fundraisers

00:54:24.519 --> 00:54:26.940
in our towns and villages and then all donate

00:54:26.940 --> 00:54:29.679
and, you know, raise millions of pounds. You

00:54:29.679 --> 00:54:32.179
know, you guys had Bob Ross and Mr. Rogers and,

00:54:32.199 --> 00:54:34.579
you know, kindness and compassion was front and

00:54:34.579 --> 00:54:38.139
center. And I feel like the most censored voice

00:54:38.139 --> 00:54:41.780
these days is the centrist person talking about

00:54:41.780 --> 00:54:44.260
kindness, compassion and community. And that's

00:54:44.260 --> 00:54:47.179
terrifying. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know,

00:54:47.179 --> 00:54:50.340
bring up Bob Ross. I love watching. I don't know

00:54:50.340 --> 00:54:52.739
why, but as a kid, I loved watching him paint.

00:54:52.820 --> 00:54:57.260
Right. And my kids are 12 and 15. They both have

00:54:57.260 --> 00:55:00.539
birthdays next month. But if you put Bob Ross

00:55:00.539 --> 00:55:03.099
in front of them, it captivates them still today.

00:55:04.019 --> 00:55:07.420
Right. It's still just as simple. It's just as

00:55:07.420 --> 00:55:11.579
like the low tone, like the calmness of it all.

00:55:11.920 --> 00:55:15.349
But it. It captivates them, you know, and I think

00:55:15.349 --> 00:55:18.269
that when we were when we were younger, when

00:55:18.269 --> 00:55:20.230
we were kids, there was just there was more of

00:55:20.230 --> 00:55:22.889
that. We saw it. And now kids don't see it unless,

00:55:22.989 --> 00:55:25.730
you know, you or I force them force it on. Right.

00:55:25.769 --> 00:55:27.530
We kind of force it on them. But what I know

00:55:27.530 --> 00:55:29.750
what I notice is that they they like that. I

00:55:29.750 --> 00:55:31.750
think music is a good example of that. Right.

00:55:32.530 --> 00:55:35.849
Music today sucks. It's I mean, there's some

00:55:35.849 --> 00:55:37.230
good music out there, but for the most part,

00:55:37.289 --> 00:55:40.849
it sucks. Like the amount of music produced versus

00:55:40.849 --> 00:55:45.000
the good music. is just wildly apart from each

00:55:45.000 --> 00:55:48.360
other, those numbers, right? And I think it's

00:55:48.360 --> 00:55:51.739
cool that my kid's into Nirvana and stuff that

00:55:51.739 --> 00:55:53.800
moves him. You know what I mean? And obviously,

00:55:54.039 --> 00:55:56.659
like a lot of that music is actually talking

00:55:56.659 --> 00:56:00.119
about a lot of hardship and raw, brutal things

00:56:00.119 --> 00:56:03.219
that happen in artists' lives. But we just, you

00:56:03.219 --> 00:56:05.800
know, musicians don't do that anymore. They don't

00:56:05.800 --> 00:56:08.079
move kids the same way. So we're back to those

00:56:08.079 --> 00:56:12.760
role models, right? inspiring people like how

00:56:12.760 --> 00:56:16.159
are our kids going to inspire their grandkids

00:56:16.159 --> 00:56:19.059
when they're not inspired today you know what

00:56:19.059 --> 00:56:22.380
i mean like just like like we used to be told

00:56:22.380 --> 00:56:26.760
you could be whatever you want now now nobody

00:56:26.760 --> 00:56:30.260
wants to even take a job like they just want

00:56:30.260 --> 00:56:34.380
to make millions off of sponsorships and ads

00:56:34.380 --> 00:56:37.239
and on facebook or so you know instagram likes

00:56:37.239 --> 00:56:39.460
and stuff like videos reels and stuff like that

00:56:39.460 --> 00:56:44.360
so We're right back to that, you know? Yeah,

00:56:44.460 --> 00:56:46.699
I think I really believe there's a revolution

00:56:46.699 --> 00:56:49.179
coming, you know, a renaissance of kindness and

00:56:49.179 --> 00:56:51.760
compassion and community. And even, I mean, just

00:56:51.760 --> 00:56:55.880
to use an example, the modern American mall that

00:56:55.880 --> 00:56:57.800
used to be full of department stores and people

00:56:57.800 --> 00:57:00.300
would basically go in and, you know, buy orange

00:57:00.300 --> 00:57:03.639
Julius and pretzels and buy a bunch of shit and

00:57:03.639 --> 00:57:06.159
walk out with a bunch of bags. Now you're seeing

00:57:06.159 --> 00:57:08.300
that model has failed. Because you can buy shit

00:57:08.300 --> 00:57:10.300
online now. You can go on Amazon, click a bunch

00:57:10.300 --> 00:57:13.659
of stuff. Yes, it's a huge organization, but

00:57:13.659 --> 00:57:15.280
you can buy your stuff that you don't need to

00:57:15.280 --> 00:57:17.840
go in a store. And so now these malls, like the

00:57:17.840 --> 00:57:19.539
one where I live now, they're starting to change

00:57:19.539 --> 00:57:22.280
where they're creating spaces for people who

00:57:22.280 --> 00:57:24.179
actually want to be and communicate with each

00:57:24.179 --> 00:57:26.900
other. Coffee shops and breweries and artisan

00:57:26.900 --> 00:57:30.079
shops and that kind of thing. So I really believe

00:57:30.079 --> 00:57:32.559
that this is like idiocracy. And we're almost

00:57:32.559 --> 00:57:34.360
there. I mean, there's going to be a UFC on the

00:57:34.360 --> 00:57:37.079
White House lawn. We're almost there. And then

00:57:37.079 --> 00:57:38.840
there's going to be an explosion. Everyone's

00:57:38.840 --> 00:57:40.039
minds are going to blow. And then they're going

00:57:40.039 --> 00:57:42.079
to realize that we're actually, you know, on

00:57:42.079 --> 00:57:45.000
some reality show. Then they're going to circle

00:57:45.000 --> 00:57:47.480
around. So how are we doing it? Well, what was

00:57:47.480 --> 00:57:49.019
the last kind of period that we were doing it?

00:57:49.019 --> 00:57:51.380
Well, I think even this young, young generation,

00:57:51.559 --> 00:57:54.400
they're leaning into the 80s and 90s right now.

00:57:54.559 --> 00:57:56.980
That's even like a fashion thing. And then my

00:57:56.980 --> 00:57:59.739
son's got a record player. Yeah. He's got Elton

00:57:59.739 --> 00:58:01.559
John. He's got Bob Marley. You know what I mean?

00:58:01.599 --> 00:58:04.320
So I think this exciting because there's a real,

00:58:04.320 --> 00:58:06.920
you know, real opportunity for us to say, all

00:58:06.920 --> 00:58:09.500
right, control, alt, delete. Sorry about the

00:58:09.500 --> 00:58:12.119
last 10, 20 years. Let's get back to where we're

00:58:12.119 --> 00:58:14.940
supposed to be. But, um, but yeah, but it has

00:58:14.940 --> 00:58:16.960
to be again, all the voices. And this is what

00:58:16.960 --> 00:58:18.780
I love about this, you know, talking to you,

00:58:18.860 --> 00:58:21.059
you know, when it comes to the military side

00:58:21.059 --> 00:58:23.139
and the jujitsu side and all the other areas

00:58:23.139 --> 00:58:26.039
of your life. This is a valuable voice that people

00:58:26.039 --> 00:58:27.940
listen to and go, wow, well, if that person is

00:58:27.940 --> 00:58:31.239
thinking this way, maybe Fox News, CNN isn't

00:58:31.239 --> 00:58:35.760
quite the right thing for me. So I'm very, very

00:58:35.760 --> 00:58:39.260
optimistic. But you have to also have like Teflon

00:58:39.260 --> 00:58:42.840
skin to let all the negativity, you know, go

00:58:42.840 --> 00:58:45.599
past you. But I think at the core, I really think

00:58:45.599 --> 00:58:48.679
there's this yearning for us to go back to where

00:58:48.679 --> 00:58:51.119
we are, you know, and really make this country

00:58:51.119 --> 00:58:54.280
as great as everyone knows it is. The version

00:58:54.280 --> 00:58:56.900
of America that you grew up in in Michigan, that

00:58:56.900 --> 00:58:59.099
to me is what we need to get back to, that community,

00:58:59.300 --> 00:59:03.099
that nature, that fitness, that natural food,

00:59:03.320 --> 00:59:05.860
that natural health. That's where we kind of

00:59:05.860 --> 00:59:10.300
circle around. Well, you have a big platform,

00:59:10.380 --> 00:59:12.179
right? You have a podcast and you can influence

00:59:12.179 --> 00:59:15.760
and impact a lot of people. But I think people

00:59:15.760 --> 00:59:19.760
think they don't have an impact when they don't

00:59:19.760 --> 00:59:23.139
have the reach that A podcaster does like, right.

00:59:23.159 --> 00:59:25.460
I'm not Joe Rogan. So I'm not going to, I'm not

00:59:25.460 --> 00:59:28.559
going to be able to influence people, but you

00:59:28.559 --> 00:59:30.599
know, when you have a crazy daunting task in

00:59:30.599 --> 00:59:32.840
front of you, you take it a step at a time, right?

00:59:32.940 --> 00:59:35.099
Like that's the secret to butts. Everybody always

00:59:35.099 --> 00:59:37.039
asks about butts. How do you get through butts?

00:59:37.380 --> 00:59:39.920
You literally take it one evolution at a time.

00:59:40.360 --> 00:59:43.840
And even if you fail that evolution, it's behind

00:59:43.840 --> 00:59:46.599
you and you don't, you don't even address it

00:59:46.599 --> 00:59:50.300
until it comes back on your next try. right like

00:59:50.300 --> 00:59:53.159
you have to attack each evolution individually

00:59:53.159 --> 00:59:55.099
you have to compartmentalize and you have to

00:59:55.099 --> 00:59:57.219
attack it you you know how do you eat an elephant

00:59:57.219 --> 01:00:02.239
one bite at a time so people think well i'm a

01:00:02.239 --> 01:00:05.860
family of four well you still can impact three

01:00:05.860 --> 01:00:09.079
other people right and those and then those three

01:00:09.079 --> 01:00:10.900
people are going to impact other people but we

01:00:10.900 --> 01:00:12.860
don't look at it that way we think that we don't

01:00:12.860 --> 01:00:16.300
have the reach to make a difference so then a

01:00:16.300 --> 01:00:18.690
lot of people just don't do anything right and

01:00:18.690 --> 01:00:22.710
they and they they have a lot to offer so i think

01:00:22.710 --> 01:00:25.369
once people realize that maybe they are maybe

01:00:25.369 --> 01:00:27.289
like you said you know kids are definitely i

01:00:27.289 --> 01:00:29.590
do agree i think kids are looking for that now

01:00:29.590 --> 01:00:33.090
so maybe we're maybe we're just lost enough as

01:00:33.090 --> 01:00:38.349
a country and as a world that now our our youth

01:00:38.349 --> 01:00:40.690
is trying to figure it out right they're trying

01:00:40.690 --> 01:00:43.250
to find these things search for these things

01:00:43.250 --> 01:00:46.809
because they're just lost but yeah i think that

01:00:46.809 --> 01:00:50.230
we can impact it starts with our immediate family

01:00:50.230 --> 01:00:52.329
and our friends and you impact those that you

01:00:52.329 --> 01:00:54.929
can and if that's as far as your reach goes that's

01:00:54.929 --> 01:00:57.610
enough you know we just take it one piece at

01:00:57.610 --> 01:01:00.309
a time and if the whole country took it in their

01:01:00.309 --> 01:01:03.309
their little piece that they can control not

01:01:03.309 --> 01:01:06.289
control but that they can affect effectively

01:01:06.289 --> 01:01:10.210
then as a country we'd start to you know heal

01:01:10.210 --> 01:01:13.670
a little bit yeah the phrase goes you want to

01:01:13.670 --> 01:01:16.349
change the world start a home doesn't say start

01:01:16.349 --> 01:01:19.070
at the white house or 10 downing street or you

01:01:19.070 --> 01:01:21.949
know wherever so uh yeah and this is the the

01:01:21.949 --> 01:01:23.869
book i'm turning into a show at the moment this

01:01:23.869 --> 01:01:27.130
is exactly what i want to do imagine if everyone

01:01:27.130 --> 01:01:30.309
watched you know a show and it gave them hope

01:01:30.650 --> 01:01:32.489
And it gave them some tools to actually work

01:01:32.489 --> 01:01:36.349
on themselves first. And then, as you said, include

01:01:36.349 --> 01:01:38.710
their partner and their children and then walk

01:01:38.710 --> 01:01:40.690
out their front door and be a mentor in their

01:01:40.690 --> 01:01:43.030
community because some children aren't lucky

01:01:43.030 --> 01:01:45.730
enough to have one or both parents in the household.

01:01:46.409 --> 01:01:48.829
Then imagine the impact, like you said, times

01:01:48.829 --> 01:01:51.590
that by, you know, 100 million, the impact that

01:01:51.590 --> 01:01:53.969
would have on this country. And then imagine

01:01:53.969 --> 01:01:57.010
if we truly were the poster child for democracy.

01:01:57.980 --> 01:02:00.599
how that would then spread through osmosis through

01:02:00.599 --> 01:02:02.940
other countries in a peaceful way rather than

01:02:02.940 --> 01:02:06.219
a Team America, World Police way. Yeah. Yeah,

01:02:06.280 --> 01:02:10.179
for sure. Yeah, you affect what you can. You

01:02:10.179 --> 01:02:13.820
know what I mean? And that changes. I was talking

01:02:13.820 --> 01:02:15.739
about this to somebody the other day. You know,

01:02:15.739 --> 01:02:20.780
at times you've got money. You could donate money,

01:02:20.940 --> 01:02:23.599
right? You could say, oh, I'm going to give money

01:02:23.599 --> 01:02:26.079
to this organization because they need it. They

01:02:26.079 --> 01:02:28.650
could use it. Other times you have time, right?

01:02:28.750 --> 01:02:31.309
Like, well, I don't have money, but I have time

01:02:31.309 --> 01:02:34.050
right now. And I could, and I have these things

01:02:34.050 --> 01:02:36.949
that I'm capable of teaching somebody else. Like

01:02:36.949 --> 01:02:40.289
I donate a lot of time with jujitsu. I stay after

01:02:40.289 --> 01:02:42.329
at class with people. I don't have to stay there.

01:02:42.389 --> 01:02:45.210
I'm not getting paid for it, you know, but part

01:02:45.210 --> 01:02:49.329
of it is it's mutually rewarding, right? Like

01:02:49.329 --> 01:02:52.349
we yearn for respect and admiration and all these

01:02:52.349 --> 01:02:55.599
things. But in return for those things, you help

01:02:55.599 --> 01:02:58.420
somebody, right? And they grow and they feel

01:02:58.420 --> 01:03:00.820
like you're investing in them. And yeah, it's

01:03:00.820 --> 01:03:03.800
just, we get lost a little bit in the scale of

01:03:03.800 --> 01:03:06.739
it all. Like, well, am I making an impact? But

01:03:06.739 --> 01:03:10.639
people just need to realize they are. And then

01:03:10.639 --> 01:03:13.519
I think lifestyle is a big deal too. You brought

01:03:13.519 --> 01:03:16.480
it up a couple of times, just the way we eat

01:03:16.480 --> 01:03:21.079
today, the nutrition, or not the nutrition, but

01:03:21.079 --> 01:03:24.260
the fitness side of stuff. kind of gotten a little

01:03:24.260 --> 01:03:27.159
lost on that. I think that starts with our school

01:03:27.159 --> 01:03:31.559
systems. I think we need to get PE classes back

01:03:31.559 --> 01:03:34.860
into the curriculum. Kids should be exercising

01:03:34.860 --> 01:03:37.500
every day. That shouldn't be an option. They

01:03:37.500 --> 01:03:40.300
should be exercising every day. They'd have more

01:03:40.300 --> 01:03:43.579
cognitive clarity. They would have opportunities

01:03:43.579 --> 01:03:48.739
to interact socially. in a situation that's not

01:03:48.739 --> 01:03:51.619
so structured in the classroom right where they've

01:03:51.619 --> 01:03:55.159
got these rigid boundaries and you know it's

01:03:55.159 --> 01:03:58.599
getting wild right like you can't do this but

01:03:58.599 --> 01:04:00.760
you have to accept that this person thinks they're

01:04:00.760 --> 01:04:03.280
this right and there's like these all that there's

01:04:03.280 --> 01:04:05.920
these weird rule sets inside the classroom that

01:04:05.920 --> 01:04:08.460
i think as kids we sorted them out on the playground

01:04:08.460 --> 01:04:12.960
right like that's where the majority of your

01:04:12.960 --> 01:04:17.000
problems got solved where in the cafeteria at

01:04:17.000 --> 01:04:19.179
lunchtime or on the playground right and now

01:04:19.179 --> 01:04:21.880
we we've taken the playground away from kids

01:04:21.880 --> 01:04:26.639
and um yeah we just we expect so much and demand

01:04:26.639 --> 01:04:29.260
so much and put a lot of artificial barriers

01:04:29.260 --> 01:04:32.219
in place so we could start there with the school

01:04:32.219 --> 01:04:33.960
systems that would be a great place if we're

01:04:33.960 --> 01:04:36.559
going to fix it through our youth we might as

01:04:36.559 --> 01:04:40.679
well start it with education i said this during

01:04:40.679 --> 01:04:43.360
covet again from that centrist point that you

01:04:43.360 --> 01:04:45.789
know there was one truth whether you were all

01:04:45.789 --> 01:04:47.690
in on vaccines, whether you thought it was a

01:04:47.690 --> 01:04:50.329
Chinese conspiracy, whatever you lean towards,

01:04:50.889 --> 01:04:53.429
the healthier you were, the higher the chance

01:04:53.429 --> 01:04:56.070
you were going to survive an exposure to a virus,

01:04:56.230 --> 01:04:59.590
any virus, period. That's an irrefutable truth.

01:05:00.090 --> 01:05:01.929
Because even these anomalies, obviously there

01:05:01.929 --> 01:05:04.530
was something within them that was creating some

01:05:04.530 --> 01:05:07.409
sort of susceptibility to this particular virus.

01:05:07.869 --> 01:05:10.590
So to me, all these people that were touting,

01:05:10.610 --> 01:05:12.309
oh, it's for health, trust the science, it's

01:05:12.309 --> 01:05:15.000
like, all right, perfect. everyone's going to

01:05:15.000 --> 01:05:17.880
trust you. And in return, you're going to do

01:05:17.880 --> 01:05:20.320
something for the health. So I'm waiting to see

01:05:20.320 --> 01:05:22.639
you, you know, give a lot of financial subsidies

01:05:22.639 --> 01:05:25.880
to local farmers all over the country to grow

01:05:25.880 --> 01:05:27.980
organic food and meat, you know, meat finished

01:05:27.980 --> 01:05:30.400
meat, meat finished meat, excuse me, grass finished

01:05:30.400 --> 01:05:32.199
meat, meat finished meat is what we have at the

01:05:32.199 --> 01:05:35.619
moment. That's what called mad cow disease. You

01:05:35.619 --> 01:05:38.480
know, putting PE programs back in, getting rid

01:05:38.480 --> 01:05:40.639
of soda machines from schools and getting the

01:05:40.639 --> 01:05:43.590
chefs to make real food like we used to. You

01:05:43.590 --> 01:05:45.769
know, all those things, pedestrianizing downtowns.

01:05:46.329 --> 01:05:48.570
But nothing happened. None of that. And this

01:05:48.570 --> 01:05:50.690
is what's so good. Then you get the influences,

01:05:50.929 --> 01:05:52.710
the fitness people saying, oh, if you just wake

01:05:52.710 --> 01:05:55.690
up at five and eat a salad and run 50 miles like

01:05:55.690 --> 01:05:58.550
I do, you'll look like me. And you and I grew

01:05:58.550 --> 01:06:01.670
up in an environment where food, you know, real

01:06:01.670 --> 01:06:04.250
food was ingrained in our upbringing. Exercise

01:06:04.250 --> 01:06:06.590
was ingrained in our upbringing. Being outside

01:06:06.590 --> 01:06:08.809
and suffering was ingrained in our upbringing.

01:06:09.369 --> 01:06:12.300
And so. I always tell people I'm never going

01:06:12.300 --> 01:06:14.179
to stand on an ivory tower and tell someone that

01:06:14.179 --> 01:06:16.320
grew up in Brooklyn and a bodega is where they

01:06:16.320 --> 01:06:17.880
got their food and they couldn't play in the

01:06:17.880 --> 01:06:19.599
basketball court. So there was a gang in there.

01:06:19.980 --> 01:06:22.079
Oh, if you just did what I did, you'd be like

01:06:22.079 --> 01:06:24.400
me. That's that's ridiculous. It's the environment

01:06:24.400 --> 01:06:27.519
that we have to fix as well. So ownership, 100

01:06:27.519 --> 01:06:30.579
percent. But ownership is also influenced by

01:06:30.579 --> 01:06:33.340
the environment that you have. So, again, I think

01:06:33.340 --> 01:06:36.179
once people realize that. If an organization

01:06:36.179 --> 01:06:39.119
clearly isn't invested in their nation's health,

01:06:39.199 --> 01:06:41.880
then you have to, as you said, go back to the

01:06:41.880 --> 01:06:43.760
home. Can I go on YouTube and learn a little

01:06:43.760 --> 01:06:45.940
bit more? Can I learn how to cook a meal? You

01:06:45.940 --> 01:06:47.460
know, maybe let's just take a walk around the

01:06:47.460 --> 01:06:49.699
block, whatever it is. But again, it's those

01:06:49.699 --> 01:06:53.179
baby steps because, you know, the environment

01:06:53.179 --> 01:06:55.679
really is setting people up for failure unless

01:06:55.679 --> 01:06:57.619
you grow up in some rural part and you're on

01:06:57.619 --> 01:06:59.780
a farm. So I think that needs to be part of the

01:06:59.780 --> 01:07:02.869
conversation, as you said. identifying where

01:07:02.869 --> 01:07:04.730
can we improve it. And then if enough voices

01:07:04.730 --> 01:07:07.710
come together, why don't we use the last year

01:07:07.710 --> 01:07:12.750
PE model that forged incredible health? And then

01:07:12.750 --> 01:07:14.949
the other big thing is bullying. When you have

01:07:14.949 --> 01:07:17.329
a good PE program where people are playing together

01:07:17.329 --> 01:07:19.690
and you get them to work in teams, not only do

01:07:19.690 --> 01:07:22.289
grades go up, but bullying comes down as well.

01:07:23.050 --> 01:07:27.369
Yeah. Yeah, I think so. I had a couple of years

01:07:27.369 --> 01:07:31.789
ago. I was trying to promote this law enforcement

01:07:31.789 --> 01:07:35.550
BJJ program, right? Because I'm sure you saw,

01:07:35.630 --> 01:07:38.050
like, Henner Gracie does the law enforcement

01:07:38.050 --> 01:07:40.969
to blue belt deal, right? Like, every law enforcement

01:07:40.969 --> 01:07:43.449
guy should have a blue belt in Brazilian jiu

01:07:43.449 --> 01:07:45.130
-jitsu. And I agree with that. I think that they

01:07:45.130 --> 01:07:46.590
should. I think that if you're going to put people

01:07:46.590 --> 01:07:48.050
in harm's way and you're going to make them put

01:07:48.050 --> 01:07:49.730
hands on other human beings, they should know

01:07:49.730 --> 01:07:52.030
how to conduct themselves. And that's why we

01:07:52.030 --> 01:07:54.889
have tragic events, because people aren't equipped.

01:07:55.469 --> 01:07:57.929
physically or mentally to deal with confrontation

01:07:57.929 --> 01:08:01.150
always right especially if you're new on the

01:08:01.150 --> 01:08:03.869
force and whatnot so i agree with his his model

01:08:03.869 --> 01:08:06.949
and i was working with some folks up here in

01:08:06.949 --> 01:08:11.829
michigan and i said hey you know if we just met

01:08:11.829 --> 01:08:15.190
even once a quarter right now and we put in a

01:08:15.190 --> 01:08:18.409
full day your guys would be more confident and

01:08:18.409 --> 01:08:21.090
his his answer and i don't fault him for this

01:08:21.090 --> 01:08:25.409
but he was like justin you don't understand I

01:08:25.409 --> 01:08:29.229
can't get my guys on the road to communicate

01:08:29.229 --> 01:08:33.630
at traffic stops. They don't know how to communicate

01:08:33.630 --> 01:08:37.609
verbally or non -verbally with their mannerisms

01:08:37.609 --> 01:08:41.930
to people that they pull over. They make people

01:08:41.930 --> 01:08:43.890
that they pull over uncomfortable because they're

01:08:43.890 --> 01:08:47.409
socially inept right now because they've grown

01:08:47.409 --> 01:08:51.779
up with their device. It's how they've communicated.

01:08:52.060 --> 01:08:55.140
They're keyboard warriors. They can, you know,

01:08:55.180 --> 01:08:57.060
they voice their opinions and their feelings

01:08:57.060 --> 01:08:59.840
through their devices, and they're not on the

01:08:59.840 --> 01:09:02.800
playground sorting stuff out. You know, they're

01:09:02.800 --> 01:09:06.479
not dealing with confrontation when they're six

01:09:06.479 --> 01:09:09.600
or seven, and they can't actually cause real

01:09:09.600 --> 01:09:12.260
physical harm, right? They're getting into fistfights,

01:09:12.260 --> 01:09:14.840
but they're little toddlers. You know, like we've

01:09:14.840 --> 01:09:16.899
taken that away from these kids, right, this

01:09:16.899 --> 01:09:21.210
built -in. thing of dealing with confrontation

01:09:21.210 --> 01:09:23.390
at a young age. And then by the time you're older,

01:09:23.470 --> 01:09:25.390
you know how to deal with it appropriately because

01:09:25.390 --> 01:09:27.750
you've went through all that steps along the

01:09:27.750 --> 01:09:30.670
way of development. We've removed all that. And

01:09:30.670 --> 01:09:33.149
these guys are now on the force. And, you know,

01:09:33.189 --> 01:09:37.689
they're like zombies. They stand in front of

01:09:37.689 --> 01:09:40.149
a, I don't want to say criminal, but somebody

01:09:40.149 --> 01:09:43.590
that they pull over or a house that they respond

01:09:43.590 --> 01:09:45.689
to a domestic dispute. And they're like, they're

01:09:45.689 --> 01:09:49.640
just zombies. They're flat affect. They don't

01:09:49.640 --> 01:09:54.560
comfort. If anything, they incite discomfort

01:09:54.560 --> 01:09:58.079
and rage. And he said, so we're working on building

01:09:58.079 --> 01:10:02.619
their communication skills. Last thing we want

01:10:02.619 --> 01:10:05.699
to do is give them martial arts training with

01:10:05.699 --> 01:10:07.960
no communication skills and send them out there

01:10:07.960 --> 01:10:11.380
because they'll just be rolling people up. They'll

01:10:11.380 --> 01:10:14.439
go from escalational force. They'll skip everything

01:10:14.439 --> 01:10:16.359
in between and they'll just go right to hands

01:10:16.359 --> 01:10:18.220
on. If that's the only training they have. And

01:10:18.220 --> 01:10:20.800
I didn't disagree with him. I'm like, well, shit.

01:10:20.920 --> 01:10:24.199
Yeah, that's a problem. Guys and gals out there

01:10:24.199 --> 01:10:27.000
don't know how to communicate outside of through

01:10:27.000 --> 01:10:32.119
their phones, you know? So we got some things

01:10:32.119 --> 01:10:35.079
to sort out. Start with the kids, the youth,

01:10:35.119 --> 01:10:38.039
you know? What's interesting, because you, I

01:10:38.039 --> 01:10:40.560
mean, that narrative is 100 % true. And, you

01:10:40.560 --> 01:10:42.680
know, there's a huge hiring crisis in the fire

01:10:42.680 --> 01:10:47.039
side. But what? is interesting is if you reverse

01:10:47.039 --> 01:10:50.100
engineer people will say oh kids today don't

01:10:50.100 --> 01:10:51.699
want to work and you know these kind of things

01:10:51.699 --> 01:10:54.920
but actually kids today also have access to all

01:10:54.920 --> 01:10:56.899
the information you talked about having dial

01:10:56.899 --> 01:10:58.539
-up that barely worked when you were young it's

01:10:58.539 --> 01:11:00.239
the same with me you know when i went into the

01:11:00.239 --> 01:11:05.199
fire service 21 years ago now um you know you

01:11:05.199 --> 01:11:07.140
there was a few sites and it was just like how

01:11:07.140 --> 01:11:08.659
to ace your interview and that kind of thing

01:11:08.659 --> 01:11:10.970
there's nothing about the other side of fire

01:11:10.970 --> 01:11:12.750
service, which was all the shift work and the

01:11:12.750 --> 01:11:14.689
cancers and the divorces and the alcoholism and

01:11:14.689 --> 01:11:18.010
the suicides. And now when you Google, is it

01:11:18.010 --> 01:11:20.329
healthy to be a firefighter? That's what comes

01:11:20.329 --> 01:11:22.409
up. Now, don't get me wrong. It is the greatest

01:11:22.409 --> 01:11:25.050
profession on the planet. I adore it. This is

01:11:25.050 --> 01:11:26.689
why I've been out for seven years and I still

01:11:26.689 --> 01:11:29.770
advocate for them to this day. But there are

01:11:29.770 --> 01:11:32.710
things that are broken, which is then changing

01:11:32.710 --> 01:11:35.210
it from when I got hired, thousands of people

01:11:35.210 --> 01:11:39.399
testing for literally 30 jobs. to now they're

01:11:39.399 --> 01:11:41.539
begging people to join police and fire. They're

01:11:41.539 --> 01:11:45.439
offering tens of thousands of dollars as a hiring

01:11:45.439 --> 01:11:49.399
bonus to bring you in. So my question is, as

01:11:49.399 --> 01:11:51.020
you said, there are still wrestling programs

01:11:51.020 --> 01:11:53.779
in Michigan. There are still CrossFit gyms full

01:11:53.779 --> 01:11:55.979
of people that can communicate and suffer. There

01:11:55.979 --> 01:11:57.520
are still, you know, all these other sports.

01:11:58.920 --> 01:12:02.460
Why are those people not going to these agencies

01:12:02.460 --> 01:12:04.279
where they walk in and they have good communication

01:12:04.279 --> 01:12:07.000
skills? So this is the other side of the conversation

01:12:07.000 --> 01:12:10.239
is what are our professions, plural, doing wrong

01:12:10.239 --> 01:12:13.619
that we're not attracting the right people? And

01:12:13.619 --> 01:12:15.279
there was a Wall Street Journal article I put

01:12:15.279 --> 01:12:18.800
out about six months ago. Gen, what are they?

01:12:18.859 --> 01:12:22.380
Gen Z are actually leaning into the traits because

01:12:22.380 --> 01:12:24.800
the same information they're getting on the shit

01:12:24.800 --> 01:12:27.100
side of the first responder professions, they're

01:12:27.100 --> 01:12:29.560
also getting on the shit side of college. And

01:12:29.560 --> 01:12:31.180
they're going, well, that sounds fucking awful.

01:12:31.399 --> 01:12:34.100
$60 ,000 of debt for a piece of paper and I can't

01:12:34.100 --> 01:12:36.310
get a job? Yeah, I don't think so. I'm going

01:12:36.310 --> 01:12:39.069
to go be a welder. So they want to go in these

01:12:39.069 --> 01:12:41.630
professions, but our professions have done a

01:12:41.630 --> 01:12:44.529
shitty job of taking care of our people. And

01:12:44.529 --> 01:12:46.050
we all know the stories of the cops that did

01:12:46.050 --> 01:12:48.449
something the right way and then got thrown under

01:12:48.449 --> 01:12:51.170
the bus by their agency. So I think this is the

01:12:51.170 --> 01:12:54.529
other side of the coin, is how as employers do

01:12:54.529 --> 01:12:57.069
we change things so we attract the right kind

01:12:57.069 --> 01:12:58.590
of candidate again? Because if you're taking

01:12:58.590 --> 01:13:00.869
everyone, yeah, now you've got the kid that was

01:13:00.869 --> 01:13:03.489
stuck playing fucking whatever on his phone.

01:13:04.189 --> 01:13:07.210
And now has terrible communication skills. And

01:13:07.210 --> 01:13:08.909
like you said, is probably going to get himself

01:13:08.909 --> 01:13:12.510
shot or someone else versus that person didn't

01:13:12.510 --> 01:13:15.550
even make the list, no matter the cut, because

01:13:15.550 --> 01:13:18.350
you've got, you know, 200 people trying to be

01:13:18.350 --> 01:13:21.489
a cop in that particular agency. And they take

01:13:21.489 --> 01:13:24.630
that top 10 and you get the right kind of person

01:13:24.630 --> 01:13:26.630
that you can mold for that position that will

01:13:26.630 --> 01:13:29.149
be chomping at the bit to take jujitsu classes.

01:13:30.409 --> 01:13:40.100
Yeah. Yeah, it definitely lies on the leadership

01:13:40.100 --> 01:13:44.300
and the PR side of it. I think you're right.

01:13:45.199 --> 01:13:49.279
We have to do a better job promoting the good

01:13:49.279 --> 01:13:51.720
that folks do, the good size of the job. I think

01:13:51.720 --> 01:13:53.779
you're right. Nobody wants to be a cop right

01:13:53.779 --> 01:13:57.340
now. My kid wanted to be a cop for a little while.

01:13:59.640 --> 01:14:01.819
I'm around law enforcement all the time. a lot

01:14:01.819 --> 01:14:03.640
of them are my members at the jiu jitsu academy

01:14:03.640 --> 01:14:06.859
i train them through my llc on the side like

01:14:06.859 --> 01:14:09.760
i really respect those guys i grew up i grew

01:14:09.760 --> 01:14:12.199
up being told you don't mouth off to a cop you

01:14:12.199 --> 01:14:14.640
know you get your ass thrown in jail and i'm

01:14:14.640 --> 01:14:18.960
like i'm nine why would i get thrown that's how

01:14:18.960 --> 01:14:21.680
we grew up right like you don't disrespect authority

01:14:21.680 --> 01:14:23.739
even if you don't understand it you'll understand

01:14:23.739 --> 01:14:27.430
it later so i kind of you know that's how i raise

01:14:27.430 --> 01:14:29.310
my kids through that like well if you don't understand

01:14:29.310 --> 01:14:31.069
it i'll help you understand it if you if you

01:14:31.069 --> 01:14:32.550
still don't understand it you will when you're

01:14:32.550 --> 01:14:35.689
older but this is how we do stuff right so we

01:14:35.689 --> 01:14:38.890
conduct ourselves but my son he was telling one

01:14:38.890 --> 01:14:41.149
of the swat officers he was like oh i wanna i

01:14:41.149 --> 01:14:43.430
wanna be a cop when i'm older the guy like he

01:14:43.430 --> 01:14:47.050
like leaned in he's like oh buddy don't say that

01:14:47.050 --> 01:14:50.710
and i was just like geez you're really selling

01:14:50.710 --> 01:14:53.149
it man you know and my kid this was years ago

01:14:53.149 --> 01:14:57.130
but my kid was like okay you know and you could

01:14:57.130 --> 01:14:59.310
just see though he was just he was beat down

01:14:59.310 --> 01:15:03.270
he was a you know a guy that was getting getting

01:15:03.270 --> 01:15:06.149
it from every side you know he was getting at

01:15:06.149 --> 01:15:08.310
home because he's gone all the time the hours

01:15:08.310 --> 01:15:10.810
are crazy right they're overworked and underpaid

01:15:10.810 --> 01:15:13.369
he's getting it at work he's getting scrutiny

01:15:13.369 --> 01:15:14.930
from leadership because leadership's getting

01:15:14.930 --> 01:15:16.829
scrutiny from the state from the government you

01:15:16.829 --> 01:15:19.010
know all these different from the from the public

01:15:19.010 --> 01:15:22.109
blah blah blah uh he's getting it from his colleagues

01:15:22.109 --> 01:15:24.630
because they're unhappy at work right and it's

01:15:24.630 --> 01:15:27.449
just like it's not a good place to be right now

01:15:27.449 --> 01:15:30.270
it's and i guess it sounds like fire is similar

01:15:30.270 --> 01:15:34.170
in that respect and and the military is not as

01:15:34.170 --> 01:15:38.250
bad because it's um it's insulated from from

01:15:38.250 --> 01:15:41.170
that a little bit i don't know how they've managed

01:15:41.170 --> 01:15:42.989
to do it but they've managed to insulate it a

01:15:42.989 --> 01:15:45.529
little bit and we still see the recruitment piece

01:15:45.529 --> 01:15:48.479
is still big you know with especially special

01:15:48.479 --> 01:15:50.939
operations and whatnot. But I don't think recruiting,

01:15:51.020 --> 01:15:53.060
I could be wrong, but I don't think recruiting

01:15:53.060 --> 01:15:56.760
is down significantly compared to what it's ever

01:15:56.760 --> 01:15:59.180
been. You know, I think it's still doing, they're

01:15:59.180 --> 01:16:01.420
doing all right. I know for special programs,

01:16:01.659 --> 01:16:03.880
they're finding, like you said, they're finding

01:16:03.880 --> 01:16:06.119
those communities of, you know, the wrestling

01:16:06.119 --> 01:16:08.199
communities, these kids that grew up in these

01:16:08.199 --> 01:16:12.380
rural areas. And that's the unique thing about

01:16:12.380 --> 01:16:16.210
those programs is that. People find those programs.

01:16:16.329 --> 01:16:21.449
The programs don't find them. Law enforcement

01:16:21.449 --> 01:16:23.750
and first responders, I think a lot of times

01:16:23.750 --> 01:16:28.329
they go out and find their recruits. They do

01:16:28.329 --> 01:16:30.949
that. They put on workshops and they try to bring

01:16:30.949 --> 01:16:34.409
people in. There's not a lot of selling points.

01:16:34.689 --> 01:16:36.829
They're not highlighting a lot of good stuff

01:16:36.829 --> 01:16:42.170
right now. It's interesting when you speak to

01:16:42.170 --> 01:16:47.119
your... community as a whole, when you're talking,

01:16:47.199 --> 01:16:48.899
for example, about strength and conditioning

01:16:48.899 --> 01:16:52.880
coaches in your community, they are forging performance.

01:16:53.119 --> 01:16:55.260
They're trying to get you to, you know, rock

01:16:55.260 --> 01:16:58.739
longer and run faster and, you know, carry more

01:16:58.739 --> 01:17:00.579
weight and all the things because you really

01:17:00.579 --> 01:17:03.829
are the tip of the spear. really fascinating,

01:17:03.850 --> 01:17:05.770
certainly early on in this podcast, is when I'm

01:17:05.770 --> 01:17:07.449
talking about police and fire, a lot of the guys

01:17:07.449 --> 01:17:09.029
are like, yeah, we hold you guys to the same

01:17:09.029 --> 01:17:11.149
standard as us. Now, they're not saying that

01:17:11.149 --> 01:17:13.489
the cop will be able to pass a dev group selection,

01:17:13.649 --> 01:17:15.069
but what they're saying, and it makes perfect

01:17:15.069 --> 01:17:18.109
sense, is we are holding the line in this country.

01:17:18.210 --> 01:17:20.649
And more importantly, we are protecting your

01:17:20.649 --> 01:17:23.430
families when you're overseas doing what you're

01:17:23.430 --> 01:17:27.409
doing. But when you contrast the kind of support

01:17:27.409 --> 01:17:30.960
and standards that... your community has as a

01:17:30.960 --> 01:17:33.380
whole, not even tier one, but as a whole. And,

01:17:33.460 --> 01:17:35.279
you know, let's take, for example, the Green

01:17:35.279 --> 01:17:38.359
Berets, you know, you've got the Thor 3 program,

01:17:38.560 --> 01:17:39.880
you know, strength and conditioning and rehab

01:17:39.880 --> 01:17:42.159
and all these other things, nutritionists and

01:17:42.159 --> 01:17:44.779
psychologists and, you know, sleep medicine experts

01:17:44.779 --> 01:17:47.579
and all these people that are helping, you know,

01:17:47.619 --> 01:17:50.119
hopefully longevity, but certainly performance.

01:17:50.699 --> 01:17:52.920
And then you contrast it to police and fire.

01:17:53.039 --> 01:17:55.180
And those same people, nutritionists and strength

01:17:55.180 --> 01:17:56.859
and conditioning coaches, when they come to us,

01:17:56.880 --> 01:17:58.100
it's like, well, let's try and get you to die

01:17:58.100 --> 01:18:02.439
a little bit less. That's it. That's it. So you

01:18:02.439 --> 01:18:04.659
have such a unique lens because you were truly

01:18:04.659 --> 01:18:07.800
at the peak of your community. And now you work

01:18:07.800 --> 01:18:10.819
with law enforcement, especially. Talk to me

01:18:10.819 --> 01:18:14.479
about that divide between the tools that you

01:18:14.479 --> 01:18:17.899
guys were given and the bar that was set for

01:18:17.899 --> 01:18:20.739
you versus the men and women in uniform that

01:18:20.739 --> 01:18:22.779
you work with as far as the first responder professions.

01:18:23.600 --> 01:18:25.579
Yeah, well, you know, I hear it all the time.

01:18:25.899 --> 01:18:28.819
I'm teaching tonight at the academy and I bet.

01:18:29.260 --> 01:18:31.260
There's going to be a handful of cops in there.

01:18:31.340 --> 01:18:34.180
One I'm really good friends with. And he says

01:18:34.180 --> 01:18:35.840
it all the time. He's like, we don't have, we

01:18:35.840 --> 01:18:37.199
don't have all that cool stuff. We don't have

01:18:37.199 --> 01:18:39.720
that cool shit that you had, you know? And he's,

01:18:39.720 --> 01:18:43.199
that's the unfair piece of it is that he's, he's

01:18:43.199 --> 01:18:45.880
right. Like, you know, the human performance

01:18:45.880 --> 01:18:49.460
lab that we had at the command when I left, it

01:18:49.460 --> 01:18:52.659
was insane. We had contrast baths. We had, you

01:18:52.659 --> 01:18:56.600
know, I could go get, I could get a DEXA scan.

01:18:56.840 --> 01:19:01.789
I could go. test my vo2 max you know fitness

01:19:01.789 --> 01:19:04.729
wise if i was bored of lifting weights i could

01:19:04.729 --> 01:19:07.810
go hit the rock wall i could go to the turf field

01:19:07.810 --> 01:19:10.970
i you know there was just the resources were

01:19:10.970 --> 01:19:15.789
unlimited really and we were spoiled in that

01:19:15.789 --> 01:19:18.510
regard so coming back home and then seeing what

01:19:18.510 --> 01:19:21.729
law enforcement has to offer and i will and i

01:19:21.729 --> 01:19:24.250
will say even the tip of the spear back here

01:19:24.250 --> 01:19:26.829
you know in terms of like swat teams and and

01:19:26.829 --> 01:19:30.810
specialized units even they lack the resources

01:19:30.810 --> 01:19:34.590
that we had overseas you know like we would we

01:19:34.590 --> 01:19:38.210
would deploy with flyway kits that you know they

01:19:38.210 --> 01:19:41.090
blow your mind you're like wow there's a hundred

01:19:41.090 --> 01:19:42.750
thousand dollars worth of crossfit gear in this

01:19:42.750 --> 01:19:46.890
isu you know and meanwhile we got you know some

01:19:46.890 --> 01:19:51.390
old cable machines in what looks like a basement

01:19:51.390 --> 01:19:53.310
you know looks like it's a cellar that these

01:19:53.310 --> 01:19:55.449
guys some of these departments are working out

01:19:55.449 --> 01:19:58.229
of I think it's getting better. I, you know,

01:19:58.250 --> 01:20:00.109
at least here in Michigan, I've noticed that

01:20:00.109 --> 01:20:01.670
I've been to a couple of the different facilities.

01:20:01.710 --> 01:20:03.649
I've been like, damn, you guys have actually

01:20:03.649 --> 01:20:05.329
got some nice stuff and you've got a mat room

01:20:05.329 --> 01:20:08.829
and this and that. Is it being used yet? I don't

01:20:08.829 --> 01:20:10.590
think so, because I think that that's the next

01:20:10.590 --> 01:20:12.869
piece of it is now we've got the equipment and

01:20:12.869 --> 01:20:15.149
now you've got to have professionals come in

01:20:15.149 --> 01:20:17.149
and show you, not show you how to use it. That

01:20:17.149 --> 01:20:20.430
sounds like derogatory or arrogant, you know,

01:20:20.449 --> 01:20:23.369
but you do need coaches, you know, and that was

01:20:23.369 --> 01:20:26.619
the other piece that we had. That is what is

01:20:26.619 --> 01:20:30.119
unique about SEAL Team 6, the support there.

01:20:31.539 --> 01:20:35.560
Thousands of people there, and not many of them

01:20:35.560 --> 01:20:38.579
are SEALs, right? So you're able to, when you

01:20:38.579 --> 01:20:41.079
need something, you're able to go find the subject

01:20:41.079 --> 01:20:44.039
matter expert. You're able to go into the loft

01:20:44.039 --> 01:20:46.319
and deal with a parachute rigger that's got,

01:20:46.399 --> 01:20:50.239
you know, 20 ,000 jumps. You know what I mean?

01:20:50.279 --> 01:20:53.140
And he can tell you. anything you need to know

01:20:53.140 --> 01:20:56.159
you can go into the physical therapy department

01:20:56.159 --> 01:20:59.520
and you've got four people that are ready to

01:20:59.520 --> 01:21:01.560
take care of you right now i can go to therapy

01:21:01.560 --> 01:21:04.479
every single day after my shoulder surgery i

01:21:04.479 --> 01:21:06.319
said i wanted to be doing push -ups in 30 days

01:21:06.319 --> 01:21:08.539
and i was doing it because i got to go in there

01:21:08.539 --> 01:21:11.760
every single day i was getting you know ultrasound

01:21:11.760 --> 01:21:15.159
i was getting ice and ice and hot baths and going

01:21:15.159 --> 01:21:17.779
back and forth and you know they're scraping

01:21:17.779 --> 01:21:21.119
they're you know they're just the the access

01:21:21.119 --> 01:21:25.420
to tools and modalities is unlimited so you get

01:21:25.420 --> 01:21:27.560
better you get better results out of your guys

01:21:27.560 --> 01:21:32.239
um it's hard it's hard to see it uh it's hard

01:21:32.239 --> 01:21:34.739
it's hard to come back and see how limited folks

01:21:34.739 --> 01:21:37.979
are here you know and what's put on them because

01:21:37.979 --> 01:21:42.220
i honestly i think they work hard more hours

01:21:42.220 --> 01:21:44.779
i think you guys work harder hours truthfully

01:21:44.779 --> 01:21:48.260
you know I mean, I see these guys in law enforcement,

01:21:48.300 --> 01:21:49.939
especially I don't work with a ton of fire up

01:21:49.939 --> 01:21:52.279
here because it's rural. If it was down in Detroit

01:21:52.279 --> 01:21:54.079
or Flint, I would see a lot more firefighters.

01:21:54.239 --> 01:21:56.239
But up here you have a lot of volunteer firefighters.

01:21:56.479 --> 01:21:59.300
Right. So they have day jobs and whatnot. But

01:21:59.300 --> 01:22:02.760
in terms of law enforcement, those guys, I mean,

01:22:02.800 --> 01:22:06.640
they just they grind. They just grind and grind.

01:22:06.859 --> 01:22:09.159
And that might be a piece of it is that there's

01:22:09.159 --> 01:22:11.460
not time for the rehabilitation. There's not

01:22:11.460 --> 01:22:13.659
time for the preventative measures because they're

01:22:13.659 --> 01:22:17.659
grinding so hard. We're back to fixing the recruitment

01:22:17.659 --> 01:22:23.979
piece, getting more butts in seats. And we forget

01:22:23.979 --> 01:22:29.399
that 9 -11 did that for the military. We've gotten

01:22:29.399 --> 01:22:34.739
far enough away from 9 -11 that we don't realize

01:22:34.739 --> 01:22:38.960
that the reason the SEAL teams are what they

01:22:38.960 --> 01:22:43.399
are today is because of all the books, the movies.

01:22:44.189 --> 01:22:47.289
the glamour the glitz right like so that's why

01:22:47.289 --> 01:22:50.909
recruiting has remained um and why we still have

01:22:50.909 --> 01:22:55.430
butts in seats effectively but law enforcement

01:22:55.430 --> 01:22:57.829
i think hasn't had that it hasn't been popularized

01:22:57.829 --> 01:23:01.550
right and any of it i even talked about it earlier

01:23:01.550 --> 01:23:05.510
like what what will what will solve this problem

01:23:05.510 --> 01:23:10.569
with uh like values at home i think tragedy does

01:23:10.569 --> 01:23:14.449
a lot of times I think we were slipping if we

01:23:14.449 --> 01:23:19.989
look back to 1999, Y2K, right? At the end of

01:23:19.989 --> 01:23:22.329
the 90s where things were getting a little crazy,

01:23:22.729 --> 01:23:26.510
right? People were getting a little wild. We

01:23:26.510 --> 01:23:28.970
had a reset with 9 -11 as a country at least.

01:23:29.770 --> 01:23:35.210
9 -11 was so horrific and so tragic that it brought

01:23:35.210 --> 01:23:37.850
the country back together. We're kind of unraveling

01:23:37.850 --> 01:23:41.739
again. We're getting away again. And if you go

01:23:41.739 --> 01:23:45.239
back in time, Pearl Harbor, all these events,

01:23:45.439 --> 01:23:47.920
they kind of did the same thing. They unified

01:23:47.920 --> 01:23:51.279
us. I hate that it takes tragedy to unify us

01:23:51.279 --> 01:23:54.939
and correct problems in society, but it almost

01:23:54.939 --> 01:23:56.939
feels like that's, you know, when you say there's

01:23:56.939 --> 01:24:01.840
a reckoning coming or something, like, I don't

01:24:01.840 --> 01:24:03.520
know what it is, but yeah, I would agree. It's

01:24:03.520 --> 01:24:05.399
probably going to take a tragedy of some kind.

01:24:05.500 --> 01:24:06.800
I honestly thought it was going to be COVID.

01:24:07.399 --> 01:24:10.020
I thought COVID was going to be significant enough.

01:24:10.880 --> 01:24:13.659
The impact that it had on our kids, right, sending

01:24:13.659 --> 01:24:18.079
them home from school, blatant evidence and proof

01:24:18.079 --> 01:24:22.460
that people don't care about your kids. They'll

01:24:22.460 --> 01:24:26.260
send them home to not be educated, right? They

01:24:26.260 --> 01:24:28.279
will vaccinate you whether you like it or not.

01:24:29.399 --> 01:24:32.239
I thought that would be enough of a tragedy to

01:24:32.239 --> 01:24:34.279
reset us. It felt like it was. I mean, this place,

01:24:34.399 --> 01:24:40.130
look at, I mean, the world just stopped. But

01:24:40.130 --> 01:24:42.430
it wasn't. It wasn't significant enough. So I

01:24:42.430 --> 01:24:46.029
don't know what it's going to take now. I think

01:24:46.029 --> 01:24:49.710
the problem with COVID is the same as I saw in

01:24:49.710 --> 01:24:54.649
Katrina versus 9 -11. So when 9 -11 obviously

01:24:54.649 --> 01:24:57.170
happened, you heard this phrase over and over

01:24:57.170 --> 01:25:00.350
again, I missed 9 -12. All those communities

01:25:00.350 --> 01:25:02.710
coming together, synagogues and mosques and temples

01:25:02.710 --> 01:25:05.630
and churches and all these leaders from all these

01:25:05.630 --> 01:25:07.789
different communities at that point were New

01:25:07.789 --> 01:25:10.930
Yorkers and they were Americans. Katrina, it

01:25:10.930 --> 01:25:12.829
was the opposite. If you kind of listen to a

01:25:12.829 --> 01:25:15.250
lot of the footage then, they're just taking

01:25:15.250 --> 01:25:17.529
this group out and not this group. And it was

01:25:17.529 --> 01:25:21.609
very divisive. the people making the choices

01:25:21.609 --> 01:25:25.329
and the storytelling from that became even more

01:25:25.329 --> 01:25:27.729
divisive. And, you know, let me take all of your

01:25:27.729 --> 01:25:29.869
autonomy away. Because if you think about it,

01:25:29.909 --> 01:25:32.810
if we sat down and we were like, how could we

01:25:32.810 --> 01:25:34.770
make sure that people were the most vulnerable

01:25:34.770 --> 01:25:37.130
to a virus? Like, all right, well, we're going

01:25:37.130 --> 01:25:39.930
to lock them in their house. They can have alcohol

01:25:39.930 --> 01:25:41.649
and fast food delivered to their house. They

01:25:41.649 --> 01:25:43.810
can binge watch Netflix. They're not allowed

01:25:43.810 --> 01:25:46.310
to see their family or friends. Perfect. You

01:25:46.310 --> 01:25:49.079
know, that'll break them down. So the information

01:25:49.079 --> 01:25:52.800
they got, regardless of masks, vaccines, all

01:25:52.800 --> 01:25:56.420
that other stuff, to break down a country, that

01:25:56.420 --> 01:25:59.260
was the perfect tool to do that. And that started

01:25:59.260 --> 01:26:01.439
on one side of the aisle and then carried on

01:26:01.439 --> 01:26:04.960
on the other side of the aisle. So to me, that

01:26:04.960 --> 01:26:07.199
kind of tragedy, we're seeing that tragedies

01:26:07.199 --> 01:26:09.239
aren't doing that anymore. So I hope it's the

01:26:09.239 --> 01:26:12.479
opposite. I hope it's an upswell of movement.

01:26:12.520 --> 01:26:15.399
And again, I'm grandiose with this TV show, but

01:26:15.399 --> 01:26:18.970
I'm hoping it's sowing the seeds. Where, what

01:26:18.970 --> 01:26:22.029
if we didn't wait for a tragedy? What if we just

01:26:22.029 --> 01:26:25.029
simply started coming together and we identified

01:26:25.029 --> 01:26:27.930
that if someone, I don't care who they are, whether

01:26:27.930 --> 01:26:29.449
it's a teacher in the classroom or president

01:26:29.449 --> 01:26:31.869
or prime minister, if they are deliberately dividing

01:26:31.869 --> 01:26:35.329
you, that's tyranny. And if they're bringing

01:26:35.329 --> 01:26:38.750
you together, that's leadership. And if we identify

01:26:38.750 --> 01:26:41.670
that, whatever rung of the ladder it is, then

01:26:41.670 --> 01:26:44.579
you start seeing it for what it is. And so I

01:26:44.579 --> 01:26:46.779
hope that there's this time there's an awakening

01:26:46.779 --> 01:26:49.119
rather than a tragedy, because God forbid we

01:26:49.119 --> 01:26:51.760
wait for another tragedy. And this time it doesn't

01:26:51.760 --> 01:26:54.600
bring us together. The same voices put us further

01:26:54.600 --> 01:26:56.939
and further apart. And then God knows what happens

01:26:56.939 --> 01:26:59.779
then. Yeah, I hope I hope you're right. And I.

01:27:01.600 --> 01:27:04.760
I have thought that way for a while. And like

01:27:04.760 --> 01:27:07.720
I said, COVID didn't do it. And to me, it was

01:27:07.720 --> 01:27:11.020
a tragedy. I mean, we didn't I didn't I didn't

01:27:11.020 --> 01:27:12.899
get vaccinated. I didn't get my kids vaccinated.

01:27:14.240 --> 01:27:17.979
And today it doesn't matter. I could walk out

01:27:17.979 --> 01:27:20.520
in town and I could tell anybody, any neighbor,

01:27:20.640 --> 01:27:22.939
anybody in the community, if they asked me, are

01:27:22.939 --> 01:27:24.760
you kids vaccinated? I could say, nope. And they

01:27:24.760 --> 01:27:27.600
were like, oh, cool. And about our business,

01:27:27.659 --> 01:27:31.779
we go. That wouldn't have happened when the vaccines

01:27:31.779 --> 01:27:34.260
were being pushed, right? Like I was, you know,

01:27:34.260 --> 01:27:35.960
my kids weren't allowed to hang out with other

01:27:35.960 --> 01:27:38.539
kids. They weren't allowed to, you know, I was,

01:27:38.539 --> 01:27:42.680
you know, getting shouted at. stores for not

01:27:42.680 --> 01:27:45.100
having my mask on or you know standing out in

01:27:45.100 --> 01:27:49.020
the in the yard with it not on you know ridiculous

01:27:49.020 --> 01:27:51.899
stuff all the way all across the country right

01:27:51.899 --> 01:27:54.340
but we we just forgot about it and it didn't

01:27:54.340 --> 01:27:57.199
really solve it didn't fix any of the problems

01:27:57.199 --> 01:27:59.899
that you know maybe organically would get fixed

01:27:59.899 --> 01:28:02.340
through tragedy where like you get a country

01:28:02.340 --> 01:28:05.119
reunited no we're just as divided we're you know

01:28:05.119 --> 01:28:08.710
so i hate i don't want to be pessimistic I hope

01:28:08.710 --> 01:28:11.350
you're right. I hope that it is something contrary

01:28:11.350 --> 01:28:14.489
to a tragedy and we've solved it on our own.

01:28:14.510 --> 01:28:16.510
And maybe it is naturally doing that. It just,

01:28:16.609 --> 01:28:19.090
it seems like things always need a catalyst,

01:28:19.310 --> 01:28:24.109
right? They need something to ignite those movements.

01:28:24.430 --> 01:28:27.250
And I don't know what it'll, maybe it'll just

01:28:27.250 --> 01:28:30.010
be an overwhelming amount of, you know, what's

01:28:30.010 --> 01:28:34.210
going on, the, you know, lostness that we have

01:28:34.210 --> 01:28:38.890
out there. Absolutely. Well, I want to hit one

01:28:38.890 --> 01:28:41.270
more kind of law enforcement tactical question,

01:28:41.470 --> 01:28:43.149
and then we'll move to some closing questions.

01:28:44.390 --> 01:28:46.289
One of the things, and bearing in mind, this

01:28:46.289 --> 01:28:49.789
is coming from a firefighter originally from

01:28:49.789 --> 01:28:52.229
England, so I am no way, shape, or form an expert

01:28:52.229 --> 01:28:55.029
in anything law enforcement, but having a background

01:28:55.029 --> 01:28:57.689
in martial arts and understanding the force multiplier

01:28:57.689 --> 01:29:00.729
of two people versus one, for example, whether

01:29:00.729 --> 01:29:04.210
it's hands -on or I would imagine with weapons.

01:29:05.399 --> 01:29:08.319
It's always seemed crazy to me that many, many

01:29:08.319 --> 01:29:10.720
parts of the country, we have one officer to

01:29:10.720 --> 01:29:13.359
a car. And if you're talking about deterrent,

01:29:13.359 --> 01:29:16.399
you're talking about de -escalation, that doesn't

01:29:16.399 --> 01:29:19.399
seem a good model. From your very, very unique,

01:29:19.619 --> 01:29:24.289
well -versed perspective. What is your lens on

01:29:24.289 --> 01:29:27.029
that kind of tactics in law enforcement? And

01:29:27.029 --> 01:29:29.470
should we be moving back to two people in a car

01:29:29.470 --> 01:29:32.670
so that you have the ability to deescalate and

01:29:32.670 --> 01:29:34.949
keep our officers safer and the people that they're

01:29:34.949 --> 01:29:37.789
trying to arrest safer? Yeah, I think we should,

01:29:37.869 --> 01:29:41.350
100%. I think that in the military, we don't

01:29:41.350 --> 01:29:45.510
deviate from that at all. It's swim buddy integrity.

01:29:46.069 --> 01:29:49.109
As soon as you get the buds, you need to be within

01:29:49.109 --> 01:29:52.929
six feet of your swim buddy at all times. And

01:29:52.929 --> 01:29:56.310
like I consider, like we all do, right? If you

01:29:56.310 --> 01:29:58.449
go into a profession like that, you consider

01:29:58.449 --> 01:30:02.670
yourself a capable man that doesn't need assistance.

01:30:02.909 --> 01:30:07.750
But I'll tell you what, I find a lot of comfort

01:30:07.750 --> 01:30:11.970
in having another well -equipped and capable

01:30:11.970 --> 01:30:14.930
human being on my right or left side, right?

01:30:15.149 --> 01:30:19.300
And I think that... You know, we as as humans,

01:30:19.359 --> 01:30:22.960
just as a species, like we have to have somebody

01:30:22.960 --> 01:30:26.119
to as a sounding board to just bounce things

01:30:26.119 --> 01:30:28.359
off of. So I think in law enforcement, I think

01:30:28.359 --> 01:30:31.340
it provides clarity, even if it's just, you know,

01:30:31.340 --> 01:30:35.340
brief, you know, decisions that are happening.

01:30:35.399 --> 01:30:37.779
Like, what should we do now? Whoa, pause. You

01:30:37.779 --> 01:30:40.239
know, like all it takes is one other person's

01:30:40.239 --> 01:30:41.880
perspective from a different lens to say pause.

01:30:42.460 --> 01:30:44.800
right reset like we talk about that in the in

01:30:44.800 --> 01:30:46.779
house clearance all the time right like anybody

01:30:46.779 --> 01:30:49.739
can say reset what happens when you're in there

01:30:49.739 --> 01:30:52.859
by yourself right we don't we don't preach one

01:30:52.859 --> 01:30:55.699
-man room entries that's a no -no right we've

01:30:55.699 --> 01:30:58.600
done we do them because sometimes you have to

01:30:58.600 --> 01:31:01.699
and you get spread too thin but you don't enter

01:31:01.699 --> 01:31:04.699
a room with less than two guys ever that's a

01:31:04.699 --> 01:31:07.539
that's a rule of ours we violate it for the needs

01:31:07.539 --> 01:31:11.500
of the mission set but I tell guys that all the

01:31:11.500 --> 01:31:13.239
time. If you get in the room and you don't like

01:31:13.239 --> 01:31:15.119
something, you just say reset. Somebody starts

01:31:15.119 --> 01:31:18.500
moving, reset. And everybody knows, okay, he

01:31:18.500 --> 01:31:21.100
saw something I didn't see. And I think that

01:31:21.100 --> 01:31:23.279
that's really important with law enforcement

01:31:23.279 --> 01:31:27.420
as well, to have two sets of eyeballs on these

01:31:27.420 --> 01:31:31.739
problems. They're safer. I think you're going

01:31:31.739 --> 01:31:35.359
to mitigate risk in regards to dealing with suspects

01:31:35.359 --> 01:31:38.340
and people as you're responding to these situations.

01:31:38.619 --> 01:31:42.460
I think you're... safer in general just i mean

01:31:42.460 --> 01:31:44.420
even if you're road dogs and you're riding around

01:31:44.420 --> 01:31:47.319
right like two people in one car keeping the

01:31:47.319 --> 01:31:50.220
other one awake you know being on the radio not

01:31:50.220 --> 01:31:53.500
missing things like i i like working in tandem

01:31:53.500 --> 01:31:56.140
i think that the military does that correctly

01:31:56.140 --> 01:31:59.020
they make sure you have a battle buddy a swim

01:31:59.020 --> 01:32:01.779
buddy you don't go anywhere without them i mean

01:32:01.779 --> 01:32:04.600
you show up you show up alone at buds it's the

01:32:04.600 --> 01:32:06.359
first thing that gets asked where's your swim

01:32:06.359 --> 01:32:11.569
buddy uh you better go find him because you you

01:32:11.569 --> 01:32:13.510
know you're not supposed to be here without him

01:32:13.510 --> 01:32:15.810
you know i mean we tether ourselves to each other

01:32:15.810 --> 01:32:18.970
in the ocean and swim do two mile ocean swims

01:32:18.970 --> 01:32:21.569
you don't go anywhere without your swim buddy

01:32:21.569 --> 01:32:24.930
and it it's both a sense of comfort you know

01:32:24.930 --> 01:32:28.029
it's a a sense of you get confidence from it

01:32:28.029 --> 01:32:30.649
like you you feel like a for a forceful you like

01:32:30.649 --> 01:32:32.770
you have multiplied because you have you know

01:32:33.210 --> 01:32:35.329
So, yeah, I think that law enforcement should

01:32:35.329 --> 01:32:37.729
go with that. I understand why they can't because

01:32:37.729 --> 01:32:39.729
of the manning issues that they're presented

01:32:39.729 --> 01:32:42.890
with. That is the one thing that sucks. And then

01:32:42.890 --> 01:32:46.210
I think that there's a little bit of that bleed

01:32:46.210 --> 01:32:51.850
over, I would say, from special operations to

01:32:51.850 --> 01:32:57.050
specialized units in law enforcement where, just

01:32:57.050 --> 01:32:59.409
like I told you, I was packing a war bag and

01:32:59.409 --> 01:33:02.850
a suit. I think some of our specialized agents

01:33:02.850 --> 01:33:05.210
are doing the same thing. I think that they're

01:33:05.210 --> 01:33:08.390
wearing too many hats. You know, they're responsible

01:33:08.390 --> 01:33:12.189
for serving, you know, serving warrants in the

01:33:12.189 --> 01:33:15.869
morning and in the afternoon. They're they're

01:33:15.869 --> 01:33:19.529
doing some high profile personal personnel security

01:33:19.529 --> 01:33:21.829
detachment. Right. They're escorting somebody

01:33:21.829 --> 01:33:26.210
from the capital state capital around at the

01:33:26.210 --> 01:33:29.329
Cherry Festival in Traverse City. You know what

01:33:29.329 --> 01:33:31.310
I mean? And that's, I think that that there,

01:33:31.409 --> 01:33:34.270
I understand that they want their best around

01:33:34.270 --> 01:33:37.109
these folks, but you're, you're, you're creating

01:33:37.109 --> 01:33:40.350
a Manning issue when you make these guys work

01:33:40.350 --> 01:33:45.130
that level of that level of hours. And then you

01:33:45.130 --> 01:33:46.829
just run out of people, you run out of bodies.

01:33:47.289 --> 01:33:50.430
So if we could fix the Manning issue, I think

01:33:50.430 --> 01:33:53.350
getting back to swim buddy integrity would be

01:33:53.350 --> 01:33:56.890
a great, great thing. It's interesting because

01:33:56.890 --> 01:33:59.720
even on the money side, From my profession, which

01:33:59.720 --> 01:34:02.119
is interesting, we do buddy systems. Whether

01:34:02.119 --> 01:34:04.119
you're a paramedic, you usually have an EMT or

01:34:04.119 --> 01:34:06.760
another medic. And in a fire, there's two of

01:34:06.760 --> 01:34:08.399
you searching a house. So one's on the wall,

01:34:08.520 --> 01:34:10.680
one's searching the room. So there is that in

01:34:10.680 --> 01:34:13.359
my profession specifically. But when it comes

01:34:13.359 --> 01:34:15.619
to staffing and, again, the mismanagement and

01:34:15.619 --> 01:34:19.079
the lack of interest in our professions, now

01:34:19.079 --> 01:34:21.399
you're filling these holes with overtime. What

01:34:21.399 --> 01:34:23.359
most cities and counties are going to discover

01:34:23.359 --> 01:34:25.220
is there's a shitload of money. It's just all

01:34:25.220 --> 01:34:28.180
downstream because you're wasting it and overworking

01:34:28.180 --> 01:34:31.720
and breaking your people. So when you invest

01:34:31.720 --> 01:34:33.680
at the front end, whether you have a fourth shift

01:34:33.680 --> 01:34:35.819
of firefighters or a second person in the car,

01:34:35.859 --> 01:34:41.779
maybe a few fewer cars on the road. Now, what

01:34:41.779 --> 01:34:45.479
are those lawsuits against law enforcement for

01:34:45.479 --> 01:34:47.640
being too rough, for wrong shoot, all these other

01:34:47.640 --> 01:34:49.899
things? How many millions of dollars could you

01:34:49.899 --> 01:34:52.119
potentially save by having two officers in the

01:34:52.119 --> 01:34:55.109
car? So I'm not a financial guru at all, but

01:34:55.109 --> 01:34:57.989
I'm learning this fast that people want more

01:34:57.989 --> 01:35:00.810
money. For example, nationally, if we want money

01:35:00.810 --> 01:35:03.050
to put PE programs and real food in schools,

01:35:03.369 --> 01:35:05.470
imagine the money you would save if you address

01:35:05.470 --> 01:35:08.810
the obesity crisis. You know what I mean? Trillions

01:35:08.810 --> 01:35:12.329
of dollars. So it's not about more money. It's

01:35:12.329 --> 01:35:15.270
like looking at your agency going, where is the

01:35:15.270 --> 01:35:17.970
money being lost? How can we put that back upstream

01:35:17.970 --> 01:35:20.630
so that we can prevent losing it downstream?

01:35:21.449 --> 01:35:23.350
And then over and over again, that seems to be

01:35:23.350 --> 01:35:25.930
one of it. It sounds simple, but that is one

01:35:25.930 --> 01:35:28.149
of the financial applications of this. And then

01:35:28.149 --> 01:35:30.250
when you are able then to add more resources

01:35:30.250 --> 01:35:32.909
and now you can put the bar higher, then you

01:35:32.909 --> 01:35:35.430
have people lining up around the wall again to

01:35:35.430 --> 01:35:37.569
come work for your agency. And as you said, you

01:35:37.569 --> 01:35:39.710
choose the people that look for the profession

01:35:39.710 --> 01:35:42.109
rather than looking for the people for your profession.

01:35:42.630 --> 01:35:47.369
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know. We've

01:35:47.369 --> 01:35:50.050
got to stop letting Kellogg and Kraft and people

01:35:50.050 --> 01:35:53.069
like that control things as well, too, right?

01:35:53.189 --> 01:35:55.750
Like, they're the ones putting a lot of that

01:35:55.750 --> 01:35:58.390
food, Coca -Cola, right? They're putting those

01:35:58.390 --> 01:36:01.029
things in front of our kids. And I don't know

01:36:01.029 --> 01:36:04.390
if there's any of that going on with law enforcement,

01:36:04.449 --> 01:36:06.390
if there's money to be made somewhere. But it

01:36:06.390 --> 01:36:09.229
just seems like, yeah, it seems like that two

01:36:09.229 --> 01:36:12.609
-man integrity would be a solution to a lot of

01:36:12.609 --> 01:36:15.170
problems, just sharing resources, a squad car.

01:36:15.720 --> 01:36:20.420
Right. Like crashing a squad car. I can imagine

01:36:20.420 --> 01:36:23.359
that a lot of crashes occur because a single

01:36:23.359 --> 01:36:27.920
driver's tired shift. I mean, swapping out driving

01:36:27.920 --> 01:36:30.119
shifts and, you know, being behind the wheel.

01:36:30.220 --> 01:36:32.840
Like I just I would imagine, yeah, you'd mitigate

01:36:32.840 --> 01:36:36.039
a lot of the wasteful spending that we have by

01:36:36.039 --> 01:36:40.439
sharing resources and having two guys. So, yeah,

01:36:40.539 --> 01:36:45.029
I agree. One other quick side conversation. You

01:36:45.029 --> 01:36:48.189
mentioned having young kids yourself still. Talk

01:36:48.189 --> 01:36:52.310
to me about your perspective on the school violence,

01:36:52.390 --> 01:36:54.689
school shooting issue that we have at the moment.

01:36:54.989 --> 01:36:58.789
How, if any, what are some of the proactive initiatives

01:36:58.789 --> 01:37:02.550
we can do even culturally in our community? And

01:37:02.550 --> 01:37:04.489
then what about the kind of law enforcement,

01:37:04.729 --> 01:37:07.409
SRO, all those kind of elements when it comes

01:37:07.409 --> 01:37:10.149
to the reactive, God forbid someone has an incident

01:37:10.149 --> 01:37:14.970
in their school? Yeah. This is a personal opinion,

01:37:15.130 --> 01:37:21.449
but I would love to see teachers armed. Not every

01:37:21.449 --> 01:37:23.310
teacher, not the teachers that don't want to

01:37:23.310 --> 01:37:25.789
be armed, that don't like guns and feel afraid.

01:37:26.210 --> 01:37:30.989
I'm not looking for accidental discharges out

01:37:30.989 --> 01:37:33.489
of faculty members because they hate the idea

01:37:33.489 --> 01:37:36.569
of guns. I'm talking you go into every school

01:37:36.569 --> 01:37:40.029
district and you hold a gun. you know, you hold

01:37:40.029 --> 01:37:42.710
a meeting and you say, Hey, how many of you in

01:37:42.710 --> 01:37:44.149
here are willing to go get your concealed carry

01:37:44.149 --> 01:37:47.550
permit and train regularly and put it on, put

01:37:47.550 --> 01:37:49.970
it on this sheet that, you know, this checkoff

01:37:49.970 --> 01:37:52.229
sheet that you've trained every quarter for the

01:37:52.229 --> 01:37:54.050
entire year. You know what I mean? One day, one

01:37:54.050 --> 01:37:56.850
day, every quarter to get your concealed carry

01:37:56.850 --> 01:37:58.630
advanced training or whatever, we're going to

01:37:58.630 --> 01:38:00.409
do it through the police post. We'll do it through

01:38:00.409 --> 01:38:04.010
a, you know, a private person like myself, but

01:38:04.010 --> 01:38:07.329
that would, if we had people, folks that were

01:38:07.329 --> 01:38:10.170
willing to do that. And I know they are because

01:38:10.170 --> 01:38:13.689
i live in this community and i know all these

01:38:13.689 --> 01:38:16.869
teachers and i can i could point you in the direction

01:38:16.869 --> 01:38:19.489
of 10 of them right now that would be more than

01:38:19.489 --> 01:38:23.270
happy to carry a firearm in school to protect

01:38:23.270 --> 01:38:25.430
our kids that's going to be the biggest deterrent

01:38:25.430 --> 01:38:27.829
we talk about gun control and you know everybody

01:38:27.829 --> 01:38:29.909
we get all this scrutiny from other places well

01:38:29.909 --> 01:38:31.829
you know when guns go away people kill people

01:38:31.829 --> 01:38:34.939
with knives you know like there's bad people

01:38:34.939 --> 01:38:37.199
are always going to do bad things okay like we

01:38:37.199 --> 01:38:40.420
were how many decades into these wars that ieds

01:38:40.420 --> 01:38:43.880
have been been utilized like eventually we'll

01:38:43.880 --> 01:38:45.699
have to deal with that state side as well we

01:38:45.699 --> 01:38:49.979
already we already are right so um the problem

01:38:49.979 --> 01:38:53.340
the violence and the evil is not going away but

01:38:53.340 --> 01:38:56.000
you can deter it from coming to your home okay

01:38:56.000 --> 01:39:01.479
like you're probably not gonna If you knew a

01:39:01.479 --> 01:39:03.199
school district was armed teaching, you know,

01:39:03.199 --> 01:39:05.739
the first door you go through, somebody might

01:39:05.739 --> 01:39:08.699
be holding a gun. It's going to cause people

01:39:08.699 --> 01:39:11.159
to pause. They're going to say, hey, do I want

01:39:11.159 --> 01:39:13.380
to go in here? I mean, I understand that some

01:39:13.380 --> 01:39:15.100
of them just don't care about their lives. They

01:39:15.100 --> 01:39:17.520
don't have any, you know, they don't feel that

01:39:17.520 --> 01:39:19.640
way. Like they see themselves as a martyr or

01:39:19.640 --> 01:39:22.300
whatever. They're so mentally ill that they don't

01:39:22.300 --> 01:39:24.800
care. But I think that would be a big deterrent

01:39:24.800 --> 01:39:27.439
because one of the biggest things is the trophy,

01:39:27.579 --> 01:39:31.909
right? School shooters want their trophy. They

01:39:31.909 --> 01:39:36.689
want to take people out. It's like a thief. Most

01:39:36.689 --> 01:39:40.130
thieves hold on to the shit that they steal from

01:39:40.130 --> 01:39:43.590
you as trophies, even if they didn't want it.

01:39:43.630 --> 01:39:45.670
They steal stuff they don't need or want, and

01:39:45.670 --> 01:39:47.569
they keep it because it's a trophy of what they've

01:39:47.569 --> 01:39:49.609
done. They're sick in the head. These people

01:39:49.609 --> 01:39:51.250
that are shooting up schools are sick in the

01:39:51.250 --> 01:39:54.590
head as well. Their achievement is killing somebody.

01:39:54.729 --> 01:39:57.010
That's their achievement. In a school shooting,

01:39:57.130 --> 01:40:00.850
their achievement to them. is taking lives well

01:40:00.850 --> 01:40:04.789
if we take that from them that's a deterrent

01:40:04.789 --> 01:40:06.630
in itself that they're not going to be able to

01:40:06.630 --> 01:40:10.029
achieve their goal so i i feel like arming our

01:40:10.029 --> 01:40:12.770
our school districts and finding people you know

01:40:12.770 --> 01:40:14.869
we always make this we you always see the joke

01:40:14.869 --> 01:40:18.529
like we have this massive veteran population

01:40:18.529 --> 01:40:22.109
that would gladly stand outside schools and protect

01:40:22.109 --> 01:40:25.130
our kids well i don't really agree with that

01:40:25.130 --> 01:40:28.149
i don't think we need you know, bearded veterans

01:40:28.149 --> 01:40:31.449
that are, you know, a case of beer in wearing

01:40:31.449 --> 01:40:35.350
their, their makeshift kits and think that they're,

01:40:35.350 --> 01:40:38.750
you know, the world, a world hero, uh, outside

01:40:38.750 --> 01:40:40.590
our school districts. Like there's a little bit

01:40:40.590 --> 01:40:44.750
of that brandishing, right? Like come, come cause

01:40:44.750 --> 01:40:47.069
problems because I'm ready for them. I don't

01:40:47.069 --> 01:40:49.470
think we should go to that extreme. I just think

01:40:49.470 --> 01:40:51.930
we should discreetly teach people inside of our

01:40:51.930 --> 01:40:55.079
school systems how to handle. those situations.

01:40:55.460 --> 01:40:57.859
And I think you handle violence through violence.

01:40:58.079 --> 01:41:01.899
I don't think you handle people that have chemical

01:41:01.899 --> 01:41:05.960
imbalances that are willing to take lives. I

01:41:05.960 --> 01:41:09.640
don't think you handle that with hiding or talking

01:41:09.640 --> 01:41:11.819
to them. I think that there needs to be real

01:41:11.819 --> 01:41:16.239
deterrence in their way. We need to remove their

01:41:16.239 --> 01:41:18.880
goals from them. If your goal is to take lives,

01:41:19.000 --> 01:41:21.869
I'm going to remove that. Because if you come

01:41:21.869 --> 01:41:23.470
in here, I'm going to take your life first. And

01:41:23.470 --> 01:41:25.949
then they're like, well, shit, not only am I

01:41:25.949 --> 01:41:28.829
dying for this, but I also didn't win anything.

01:41:29.310 --> 01:41:33.250
Right? Yeah. Yeah. And it's interesting. I mean,

01:41:33.250 --> 01:41:37.029
hearing the back story of so many of these shooters,

01:41:37.090 --> 01:41:39.489
Dave Grossman on, I think three or four times

01:41:39.489 --> 01:41:43.039
now. But his perspective is fascinating. He wrote

01:41:43.039 --> 01:41:44.819
a whole book on this. But, you know, we look

01:41:44.819 --> 01:41:47.779
at the so many of them are on psych meds. So

01:41:47.779 --> 01:41:49.520
many of them have the broken home. So many of

01:41:49.520 --> 01:41:52.180
them are just immersed in video games. People

01:41:52.180 --> 01:41:54.899
forget that if you play video games through the

01:41:54.899 --> 01:41:56.880
night, now you've added sleep deprivation and

01:41:56.880 --> 01:41:59.739
you have this perfect storm for psychosis. But

01:41:59.739 --> 01:42:02.319
a lot of these shooters, once they were confronted,

01:42:02.560 --> 01:42:05.100
they stopped because that wasn't the story in

01:42:05.100 --> 01:42:07.020
their mind. That wasn't in the video game, whether

01:42:07.020 --> 01:42:09.279
it was an armed teacher or just an unarmed teacher

01:42:09.279 --> 01:42:12.239
at that point. or a police officer or an SRO.

01:42:12.460 --> 01:42:15.399
So it does make sense. I know that some people

01:42:15.399 --> 01:42:18.140
kind of feel uncomfortable about that, but whether

01:42:18.140 --> 01:42:20.619
it's an SRO at the front door or knowing that

01:42:20.619 --> 01:42:23.020
some teachers also are going to be carrying,

01:42:23.239 --> 01:42:26.840
at this point, it's for the environment. Something

01:42:26.840 --> 01:42:29.279
has to be done that's extreme. I witnessed a

01:42:29.279 --> 01:42:31.539
code red with my son. Happened to be bringing

01:42:31.539 --> 01:42:33.819
him back from a doctor's appointment. And they

01:42:33.819 --> 01:42:36.279
slammed the doors behind me and said, you've

01:42:36.279 --> 01:42:38.460
got to come into this office. We've got a code

01:42:38.460 --> 01:42:40.500
red. And I got to see it from the inside as a

01:42:40.500 --> 01:42:42.000
first responder who would normally be on the

01:42:42.000 --> 01:42:44.279
outside. And it's terrifying because these kids

01:42:44.279 --> 01:42:47.600
are helpless. So, you know, I think it's so important.

01:42:47.680 --> 01:42:49.319
But then, you know, on the other side, again,

01:42:49.399 --> 01:42:51.619
this is going to be a much longer term fix is

01:42:51.619 --> 01:42:54.100
we didn't used to have school shootings and we've

01:42:54.100 --> 01:42:55.880
had guns in this country for hundreds of years.

01:42:56.159 --> 01:42:58.819
So what are we doing generationally that's causing

01:42:58.819 --> 01:43:02.500
this kind of psychosis? you know, lone wolf mentality

01:43:02.500 --> 01:43:04.680
as well, because it's not just, you know, the

01:43:04.680 --> 01:43:06.979
school shootings, as you said, it's the domestic

01:43:06.979 --> 01:43:09.659
terrorists being influenced by ISIS and, you

01:43:09.659 --> 01:43:11.880
know, Al Qaeda and all these other groups, too.

01:43:12.000 --> 01:43:15.039
So it's a double headed issue. We have to have

01:43:15.039 --> 01:43:17.720
that reactive point now. But also, how can we

01:43:17.720 --> 01:43:19.819
I think this ties into what you said, the kindness,

01:43:19.880 --> 01:43:22.340
compassion, the positive role models. How can

01:43:22.340 --> 01:43:25.079
we stop these broken children becoming these

01:43:25.079 --> 01:43:31.399
psychotic killers? Yeah. Yeah. And, you know,

01:43:31.399 --> 01:43:35.739
having people that become decisive in action.

01:43:36.359 --> 01:43:39.380
Right. Like you said, it could be an armed teacher

01:43:39.380 --> 01:43:42.500
or an unarmed teacher. But if a teacher in general

01:43:42.500 --> 01:43:45.520
stood up and said, I'm not going, you know, I'm

01:43:45.520 --> 01:43:47.960
not going to stand idly by while you come into

01:43:47.960 --> 01:43:52.159
my classroom with a gun. God forbid a teacher

01:43:52.159 --> 01:43:55.380
loses their life. But how many kids would that,

01:43:55.439 --> 01:43:58.439
you know, if those children survived that, you

01:43:58.439 --> 01:44:02.380
hate to. make her him or her the role model right

01:44:02.380 --> 01:44:04.800
but but that is a that is a really good role

01:44:04.800 --> 01:44:07.359
model right like somebody from your community

01:44:07.359 --> 01:44:12.619
that sacks up right and puts themselves between

01:44:12.619 --> 01:44:15.899
your children and in danger real danger right

01:44:15.899 --> 01:44:18.539
and we've we've just completely gotten away from

01:44:18.539 --> 01:44:21.340
that we've you know we would rather tell people

01:44:21.340 --> 01:44:23.279
to hide we'd rather tell them to get under their

01:44:23.279 --> 01:44:26.949
desks and pray that this this evil is not going

01:44:26.949 --> 01:44:29.810
to show its face and it's just like no if we

01:44:29.810 --> 01:44:32.970
start making people you know accountable and

01:44:32.970 --> 01:44:35.890
tell them hey you know it's on you you took you

01:44:35.890 --> 01:44:37.970
took an oath right you came here and you took

01:44:37.970 --> 01:44:40.609
an oath to you know to take care of these children

01:44:40.609 --> 01:44:42.930
like people bring their kids to school and they

01:44:42.930 --> 01:44:45.069
drop them off and they trust you with their lives

01:44:45.069 --> 01:44:47.750
they don't just trust you to educate them they

01:44:47.750 --> 01:44:50.970
trust you with their lives and part of that is

01:44:50.970 --> 01:44:55.140
if a situation like this arises You put yourself

01:44:55.140 --> 01:44:58.579
between them in that situation. And then it's

01:44:58.579 --> 01:45:01.619
this cycle, right, of like, wow, I had a teacher

01:45:01.619 --> 01:45:04.539
when I was a little kid. Saved my life. You know

01:45:04.539 --> 01:45:06.420
what I mean? That's why I want to be a teacher.

01:45:06.560 --> 01:45:09.220
And that's why I want to be that guy. I want

01:45:09.220 --> 01:45:13.399
to be the fit PE teacher that stood up to evil.

01:45:13.560 --> 01:45:15.359
You know what I mean? Because some kid had it

01:45:15.359 --> 01:45:17.300
when he was a kid. And we don't want a bunch

01:45:17.300 --> 01:45:19.399
of those examples. But you can see how that would

01:45:19.399 --> 01:45:24.659
start to impact generations, you know. A hundred

01:45:24.659 --> 01:45:27.619
percent. All right. Well then speaking of that,

01:45:27.720 --> 01:45:30.159
talk to me about what you're doing now and the

01:45:30.159 --> 01:45:34.119
training that you offer. Yeah. So, um, I'm an

01:45:34.119 --> 01:45:36.720
affiliate head over at Sungny Academy in Traverse

01:45:36.720 --> 01:45:40.199
City. We're a Gustavo Machado affiliate. So I

01:45:40.199 --> 01:45:42.960
met Gustavo while I was in the SEAL teams. He

01:45:42.960 --> 01:45:44.619
would come in a couple of days a week and train

01:45:44.619 --> 01:45:47.619
us. Um, we did, you know, we would primarily

01:45:47.619 --> 01:45:49.739
do jujitsu with him, but he became a friend.

01:45:49.880 --> 01:45:53.359
And when I got out, I just, I needed to somehow.

01:45:54.100 --> 01:45:57.119
stay connected with a little bit of who I was,

01:45:57.159 --> 01:46:00.020
you know, I needed my identity. And I think my

01:46:00.020 --> 01:46:02.119
ex -wife even said it best. She was just like,

01:46:02.119 --> 01:46:04.279
you know, you're going crazy around here. You

01:46:04.279 --> 01:46:06.140
got to get, you got to do something, whether

01:46:06.140 --> 01:46:09.420
it's shooting or getting back into martial arts

01:46:09.420 --> 01:46:11.619
or skydiving. She's like, I don't know what it

01:46:11.619 --> 01:46:13.460
is, but you got to do something, you know, because

01:46:13.460 --> 01:46:15.939
just lifting weights in the garage isn't enough.

01:46:16.659 --> 01:46:20.140
So I got back into jujitsu and I would say that

01:46:20.140 --> 01:46:25.670
that really ignited. My passion for not just

01:46:25.670 --> 01:46:30.029
jiu -jitsu and fighting, but like the human performance

01:46:30.029 --> 01:46:34.109
in general and the holistic health, you know

01:46:34.109 --> 01:46:35.949
what I mean? Like I'm big on all of that because

01:46:35.949 --> 01:46:38.750
just that singular piece of jiu -jitsu really

01:46:38.750 --> 01:46:42.470
helped me cope with the transition. I felt like

01:46:42.470 --> 01:46:46.010
I maintained a little bit of my identity. I felt

01:46:46.010 --> 01:46:48.029
healthier, you know, going back, getting back

01:46:48.029 --> 01:46:51.029
to it after being out of the game for... a year

01:46:51.029 --> 01:46:53.789
in that transition leaving the navy i immediately

01:46:53.789 --> 01:46:56.750
felt healthier again i felt sharper cognitive

01:46:56.750 --> 01:47:00.050
cognitively speaking um i felt happier i was

01:47:00.050 --> 01:47:01.729
releasing those endorphins in a way that you

01:47:01.729 --> 01:47:05.550
just can't going in the garage and you know putting

01:47:05.550 --> 01:47:07.729
up your reps and sets and going through the motion

01:47:07.729 --> 01:47:10.449
and playing on your phone and this and that it's

01:47:10.449 --> 01:47:14.550
something that has been very healing for me and

01:47:14.550 --> 01:47:17.390
then i've been able to impact others through

01:47:17.390 --> 01:47:21.720
that so that's the primary thing that i do is

01:47:21.720 --> 01:47:23.840
coach jiu -jitsu we have the academy over in

01:47:23.840 --> 01:47:28.140
tc and then i also with my llc i do a lot of

01:47:28.140 --> 01:47:32.260
uh firearms training with everything from you

01:47:32.260 --> 01:47:34.199
know fundamental shooting courses all the way

01:47:34.199 --> 01:47:37.600
up to close quarters combat for uh swat teams

01:47:37.600 --> 01:47:40.439
in the state do a little bit of traveling for

01:47:40.439 --> 01:47:44.060
it here and there i'm i'm big on the training

01:47:44.060 --> 01:47:45.880
piece i think that if you're going to carry a

01:47:45.880 --> 01:47:48.119
firearm you should train i don't I'm not one

01:47:48.119 --> 01:47:49.500
of those people that are just like, everybody

01:47:49.500 --> 01:47:51.859
should own a gun. You shouldn't own a gun if

01:47:51.859 --> 01:47:53.659
you don't know how to use a gun. I'm not like

01:47:53.659 --> 01:47:56.220
that. I don't believe that. Because then you're

01:47:56.220 --> 01:48:00.279
just a danger to somebody because bad guy's going

01:48:00.279 --> 01:48:03.140
to take the gun from you. That's a really simplistic

01:48:03.140 --> 01:48:06.319
way to look at it. But you're a liability if

01:48:06.319 --> 01:48:10.119
you don't train and you carry a gun. So I'm a

01:48:10.119 --> 01:48:12.520
big advocate of that. That's primarily what I

01:48:12.520 --> 01:48:16.109
do with my LLC is I train a lot of... a lot of

01:48:16.109 --> 01:48:19.229
police officers. I get a lot of vets that are

01:48:19.229 --> 01:48:21.890
out and they just want to stay on the gun and

01:48:21.890 --> 01:48:25.930
train and blow off steam and keep their skills

01:48:25.930 --> 01:48:28.210
sharp. Some of them compete, do like three gun

01:48:28.210 --> 01:48:31.630
competitions and stuff like that. I prefer teaching

01:48:31.630 --> 01:48:35.949
the CQC piece, you know, clearing structures

01:48:35.949 --> 01:48:38.250
and whatnot. That's why I really gravitate towards

01:48:38.250 --> 01:48:40.850
law enforcement, helping them with that. I think

01:48:40.850 --> 01:48:44.470
that, you know, the organization I came from,

01:48:45.680 --> 01:48:49.699
Gave me so many great tools, right, to utilize

01:48:49.699 --> 01:48:53.340
that some of that stuff can bleed over very seamlessly

01:48:53.340 --> 01:48:58.220
into law enforcement and save lives. So very

01:48:58.220 --> 01:49:01.619
big on that. And that's pretty much what my LLC

01:49:01.619 --> 01:49:04.720
focuses on. I did a little bit of like CrossFit

01:49:04.720 --> 01:49:08.340
coaching and functional health stuff right after

01:49:08.340 --> 01:49:11.960
I finished up my bachelor's degree. I enjoy that.

01:49:12.079 --> 01:49:15.600
But that piece, you really have to have a. a

01:49:15.600 --> 01:49:18.500
client that they have to invest they have they

01:49:18.500 --> 01:49:20.579
have to be really bought in for that to work

01:49:20.579 --> 01:49:23.699
where i can take somebody on the mat and i can

01:49:23.699 --> 01:49:26.359
immediately show them why putting their hand

01:49:26.359 --> 01:49:29.800
here results in this right you can show them

01:49:29.800 --> 01:49:34.279
the you know how this mistake is vital they have

01:49:34.279 --> 01:49:37.539
they have to address it where people come in

01:49:37.539 --> 01:49:38.800
they tell you they want to get in better shape

01:49:38.800 --> 01:49:41.579
and You give them the tools and then they either

01:49:41.579 --> 01:49:43.760
do it or they don't. And I can't be there at

01:49:43.760 --> 01:49:45.140
night with them when they're getting into the

01:49:45.140 --> 01:49:49.659
cookie jar. So I like leaning towards that side

01:49:49.659 --> 01:49:53.560
of human performance, the tactical side, the

01:49:53.560 --> 01:49:56.640
martial arts and the shooting. And then I also,

01:49:56.739 --> 01:49:59.939
I work for Home Pro Roofing. So we put roofs

01:49:59.939 --> 01:50:02.000
out through the summer and I do a little bit

01:50:02.000 --> 01:50:03.939
of everything. I've pretty much been in sales

01:50:03.939 --> 01:50:10.159
since 2020. I work for... Kuyu, a high, high

01:50:10.159 --> 01:50:14.380
end hunting clothing industry. And then after

01:50:14.380 --> 01:50:16.060
that, I started doing a little bit of roofing

01:50:16.060 --> 01:50:20.119
and I do a little bit of all of it. But my passion

01:50:20.119 --> 01:50:22.920
is definitely with the jujitsu and the close

01:50:22.920 --> 01:50:26.739
quarters combat and shooting. Where are the best

01:50:26.739 --> 01:50:29.699
places to find you online or those websites?

01:50:30.579 --> 01:50:33.600
Yeah, you can go to Sungni Academy in Traverse

01:50:33.600 --> 01:50:37.260
City. I can send that to you. So you have that

01:50:37.260 --> 01:50:40.119
wrote down. thank you that's where we that's

01:50:40.119 --> 01:50:42.260
where we have our jiu jitsu facility it's in

01:50:42.260 --> 01:50:45.260
traverse city and then you can always just email

01:50:45.260 --> 01:50:49.500
me at shane1876 gmail .com and i'll i'll get

01:50:49.500 --> 01:50:51.619
you set up with personal instruction if that's

01:50:51.619 --> 01:50:55.199
what you're looking for we do done a lot of different

01:50:55.199 --> 01:50:58.420
stuff i for a while i did uh leadership courses

01:50:58.420 --> 01:51:02.060
i brought not leaders not your traditional leadership

01:51:02.060 --> 01:51:05.199
i had a a really high level wrestling team in

01:51:05.199 --> 01:51:09.000
the state they would come up malt like multi

01:51:09.000 --> 01:51:10.880
-time state champions and they would bring their

01:51:10.880 --> 01:51:13.399
seniors up and I'd put them on the gun range.

01:51:15.739 --> 01:51:18.060
They'd bring chaperones and sign waivers and

01:51:18.060 --> 01:51:20.760
go through everything. But at the end of the

01:51:20.760 --> 01:51:22.180
year when they would have their banquet, that

01:51:22.180 --> 01:51:24.439
was always the pictures they had up at the banquet

01:51:24.439 --> 01:51:27.859
were them up on the range with me training. I

01:51:27.859 --> 01:51:29.680
would do little stress courses. We'd put the

01:51:29.680 --> 01:51:32.000
heavyweight down and put him on an Israeli stretcher.

01:51:32.600 --> 01:51:35.300
They'd have to run with the guy on the Israeli

01:51:35.300 --> 01:51:37.909
stretcher. Put the stretcher together, which

01:51:37.909 --> 01:51:39.470
if you've ever put an Israeli stretcher together,

01:51:39.569 --> 01:51:41.930
you know what a pain in the ass that is. So they

01:51:41.930 --> 01:51:44.989
got to experience a little bit of the heartache

01:51:44.989 --> 01:51:48.229
that goes with being a combat medic and being

01:51:48.229 --> 01:51:51.550
under stress and time and whatnot. We do Kim's

01:51:51.550 --> 01:51:53.909
drills, you know, the old sniper Kim's drills,

01:51:53.949 --> 01:51:57.949
make them memorize objects and sounds that are

01:51:57.949 --> 01:52:00.329
happening in the background and stuff like that.

01:52:00.409 --> 01:52:02.069
So we did some really cool leadership courses

01:52:02.069 --> 01:52:04.770
with groups like that. Those are really fun.

01:52:05.260 --> 01:52:09.859
full day courses so really pretty pretty customizable

01:52:09.859 --> 01:52:13.739
i would say beautiful Well, Justin, I want to

01:52:13.739 --> 01:52:15.720
say thank you so much. It's been such an interesting

01:52:15.720 --> 01:52:18.380
conversation, obviously, especially with the

01:52:18.380 --> 01:52:20.000
group that you were associated with. We're not

01:52:20.000 --> 01:52:22.319
going to take deep dives into ops and, you know,

01:52:22.359 --> 01:52:25.100
Intel, things like that. But I think that knowing

01:52:25.100 --> 01:52:27.439
your background, your perspective on a lot of

01:52:27.439 --> 01:52:29.460
the issues that we discussed today has been really,

01:52:29.500 --> 01:52:31.779
really invaluable. So I want to thank you so,

01:52:31.859 --> 01:52:33.760
so much for being so generous with your time

01:52:33.760 --> 01:52:35.760
and coming on the Behind the Shield podcast today.

01:52:36.460 --> 01:52:37.760
Absolutely. Thank you for having me.