This episode is sponsored by Transcend, a veteran
-owned and operated performance optimization
company that I introduced recently as a sponsor
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firefighter my whole life. Lots of aches and
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Now, as I mentioned before, the other side of
this company is an altruistic arm called the
Transcend Foundation, which is putting veterans
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And you can find that on jamesgearing .com under
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about Transcend and their story, listen to episode
808 with the founder, Ernie Colling. or go to
transcendcompany .com. Welcome to the Pioneer
Shield Podcast. As always, my name is James Gearing,
and this week it is my absolute honor to welcome
on the show firefighter and gut health specialist
Ian Thurber. Now, in this conversation, we discuss
a host of topics, from Ian's journey into the
fire service, some of the health challenges that
he was experiencing, his journey into the world
of gut biome and health, mental health, sleep,
recovery, performance, and so much more. Now,
before we get to this incredible conversation,
as I say every week, please just take a moment.
Go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe
to the show, leave feedback, and leave a rating.
Every single five -star rating truly does elevate
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person on planet Earth who needs to hear them.
So with that being said, I introduce to you,
Ian... Thurber. Enjoy. Well, Ian, I want to start
by saying thank you so much for taking the time
and coming on the Behind the Shield podcast today.
Yeah, I appreciate it, man. It's been a long
time watching your podcast grow and listening
to all the awesome guests you've gone on. Congratulations,
1 ,100 episodes recently. Thank you. That's huge,
man. That's so awesome. So congrats. It's an
honor to be here along with him and finally getting
to talk to you, man. Yeah, well, likewise. And
obviously, we're both, I was Orange County, you
are Orange County. So there's that commonality
there as well. For sure. For people listening,
very first question, where on planet Earth are
we finding you today? I'm in the blazing hot
state of Florida, man. Just a little southwest
of Orlando in a small town called Davenport.
Been here, let's see, 2025. We've been here for
about five years now, me and my family. So beautiful.
Well, let's start at the very beginning of your
origin story then. So tell me where you were
born and tell me a little bit about your family
dynamic, what your parents did, how many siblings.
For sure, man. So I was actually, I'm one of
the few remaining native Floridians. I was born
and raised here. And yeah, I had, I don't know.
Don't want to say growing up. So my parents got
divorced when, when I was like nine or 10, right?
Like right at the cusp of like, Hey, I really
need a father figure, you know? And I grew up,
I have two younger brothers. We're all two years
apart. So I'm 35, you know, 33, 31. One also
lives close by in Claremont with my mom. And
then another one lives with his family in South
Carolina, but we all grew up together, man. My
mom busted her butt working. multiple jobs, you
know, to scrape by and to make sure we had the
best life possible. We were all homeschooled
growing up. And so definitely come from that
background and my fire. family likes to like
to say that makes a lot of sense right like when
i'm like oh yeah i was homeschooled like oh that's
what was wrong i was like yeah it was yeah i'll
give you that one that's that's what it is um
it has its pros and cons man we're actually homeschooling
our kids our kids right now and it's awesome
but you definitely want to make sure you get
them you know socialized as well because when
i hit the workforce at 14 at the local chick
-fil -a it was like a culture shock i wasn't
ready for it and uh brought about its own list
of trials and tribulations as you know a young
man in his teens trying to figure out where i
fit in who i'm supposed to be you know still
dealing with the effects of you know my dad leaving
when you know when i was 10 and not really having
anyone to guide me through those pivotal years
you know making a lot of mistakes on my own and
so i grew up and grew up in a faith -filled household
i'm a proud christian grew up christian um definitely
That is a cornerstone of my life and my decision
-making process, but definitely was a period
for about 10 years where I kind of walked away
from my faith and made a lot of, what you say,
not so good decisions as far as that goes, but
learned a lot. Looking back now, I see that the
trials and tribulations that I was brought through,
most of them on my own doing, were definitely
so that I can look back now. And help other people
who are struggling, whether it's, you know, especially
in our community, whether it's addiction, whether
it's, you know, mindset issues, how we think
about ourselves and what we tell ourselves or
whatever it is. You know, I believe everything
happens for a reason. And I was brought through
all that for. So now I can look back and help
others. But that's a whole different topic, whole
different issue. But yeah, I had a good life,
man, growing up. So like I said, most of my family
is still local and raising my own family has
been such a blessing, man. I got beautiful, beautiful
bride who's way out of my league, which is great
because I get to show her off a lot. Yeah, yeah.
Actually, your wife's Filipino, correct? Yes,
half Filipino. Yep. Okay. Mine's a quarter Filipino.
So I thought that was pretty cool. Absolutely.
Yeah, yeah. So she's gorgeous. And she's blessed
me with two wonderful kids. We have a nine -year
-old boy who's a redhead and his temper matches
every bit of red that he has. And so we're learning
how to deal with that. And then our daughter
is about to turn one here in like a week. So
one of each. Amazing. Well, I want to go back
to early life and kind of unpack a little bit.
The first thing, when you work for Chick -fil
-A, did they drill into you the word my pleasure
bro bro my wife still gets on me about that i
still say it to this day if that's an answer
i will still say my pleasure just like out of
just don't even think about it it's it is it's
a thing that's your only response yeah yeah because
i mean it's nice but then you take a step back
and go but is it As you stand there serving me
nuggets, is it really your pleasure? Is that
coming from your heart? I'm going to be honest.
A lot of times it's not. It's like, all right,
here's your food. Go eat. Exactly. Fuck off.
Yeah, pretty much. Especially when you said you
wanted extra pickles and I gave you three instead
of four. My bad. Whatever. Go, you know, enjoy
your food. Stop whining. yeah well it's funny
that we had one of the we got a new one now near
us but before the previous one they used to make
fun of my accent and obviously i have a good
sense of humor it's fine but i remember thinking
you know what you should probably not do that
with people that you haven't ever met before
just in case they are a little you know but hurt
but if you say my pleasure at the end of it it's
fine that's right it makes up for all of it it's
like it's like saying no offense at the beginning
of something it makes up it evens out exactly
exactly yeah all right well then Going back to
earlier life, though, because this is, you know,
so many of us have struggles when we were younger.
Firstly, when I hear people that have found themselves
in a good place now, but there was an absence
of a father figure, you know, or a mother figure,
whatever it was, more often than not, there were
mentors over and above, you know, the family
that they had that kind of helped steer them.
So you mentioned kind of, you know, finding yourself
a little wayward, you know, what Who were the
people or who are the collection of people that
really kind of steered you back onto that path
again? That's an awesome question. And I would
like to say that I found someone relatively quickly
to mentor me, to kind of lead me and guide me.
Full transparency, it wasn't until... So my wife
and I just celebrated 10 years of marriage. It
wasn't until about... two years into our marriage
that i actually started finding seeking out people
to help like like having to be able to look inside
myself and be humble enough to be like i'm screwing
this up like i cannot keep doing what i'm doing
because i'm losing my family my wife had moved
out she was ready to leave take you know our
newborn son with her um and it wasn't until then
honestly that I was like, I need help. I've been
screwing this up for way too long. I've been
making way too many mistakes. Trying to control
things all on my own has been obviously a nightmare.
And so went to see a pastor at the church that
we were going to at the time. And he gave me
a book called Wild at Heart. And he said, read
through this. We're going to go through it. And
I'm sorry, I'm blanking on that. It's a well
-known author. I'm blanking on it. No problem.
People can look it up. Yeah. Yeah. Wild at heart.
It's great. And as soon as I go out and look
after this episode, I'm going to be like, yeah,
duh. How could I forget that name? But we went
through it, man. And it just, it breaks down
like the, how every boy needs adventure. Every
boy needs trials. Every boy needs to find him
in himself a warrior, but along that way also
needs someone there. you know kind of like the
squire knight relationship type deal right um
somewhere to guide him and lead him along the
way and how a lot of that faith -based wise you
know comes back to to just letting you know for
me and my belief take let god take control instead
of trying to control everything myself so he
was able man i hadn't cried like uh In years,
the way, you know, going through that book, man,
it completely shook me and brought me to my core.
And so he mentored me through the book while
we went through the book. And then we ended up
going to a different church and, you know, kind
of that kind of fell by the wayside. And, you
know, I just started focusing on me for a while.
And where I was getting my instructions from
were from the Bible. And I was like, listen,
if. I'm to fix these things and save my marriage
which was literally like gone pretty much then
I need to I need to humble myself say I'm wrong
start fixing these things so I started working
on it and then about four years ago so I worked
but kind of by myself for two years four years
ago I got plugged into an online men's ministry
they really do a good job of like combining physical
fitness with, with spiritual fitness, right?
That's kind of their whole thing. It's called
SOCON. And, um, they did a physical challenge
and they called it red scorpion challenge, um,
physical challenge. Like, Hey, we're going to
pair you up randomly with a, with a group of
guys. So, you know, you can get to know each
other. It's, it was nationwide at that point.
And, uh, you just got to go through this challenge
together, you know, kind of see what happens,
push each other, meet new people, you know, et
cetera. So I got paired up with four other guys.
One is from Vermont. One is from Tennessee. Got
one in Nevada and one in Ohio. And that has been
my biggest sense of, I guess, stewardship probably
my entire life. Like we have done life every
day together. for the past four years you know
via marco polo different apps stuff like that
um people take you know vacations in each other's
states we make sure to visit but having that
core group of men, you know, from different walks
of life that could speak into my own life, you
know, as we grew together and got to know each
other better, that I felt comfortable coming
with my challenges and struggles that I know
could help steer me right and help point me in
the right direction. And if I needed to, you
know, backhand me a little bit and be like, yo,
why are you whining? You know, get yourself together.
You know, honestly, dude, that's been the biggest
mentorship these past four years is having a
core group of guys I can trust on, you know.
And I can lean on for anything. It's been incredible.
Amazing. I mean, there's so many tenets that
are so obvious at the moment. And the book, I
always refer to the book, it's not ever a sales
pitch. It's just everything kind of ties into
what I've learned from all these years and what
I put into story recently. But you have the kind
of negative side, the unaddressed generational
trauma. but then the solution is community peer
support is community you know if you have a cohesive
firehouse if you have a cohesive group of men
that are connected virtually from around the
country that is a community no different than
a you know a village in medieval england like
you said squires and knights you know those those
people would be banding together and you know
whether it's protecting the village or helping
grow food or helping raise a child you know i
mean all the things so it doesn't surprise me
at all that that ultimately was you know nurturing
for you when you reflect back now this is always
interesting when someone's adopted fostered or
simply had you know one or both parents um you
know not around when they were developing was
there an element of not feeling good enough because
that seems to be something a lot of people feel
that that's a core yeah that's a core feeling
that i struggled with you know um 100 A hundred
percent not feeling good enough in any aspect,
you know, and that led me to seek validation
for with anyone and anyone, everyone, you know,
I was, I'd call myself a little chameleon growing
up. You know, I tried to fit in everywhere with
everybody because God forbid someone didn't like
me or stuff like that. So I definitely set the
tone for years of struggle for sure. For sure.
Yeah, I mean that that sense of abandonment when
you think that a child is supposed to feel safe
is supposed to feel loved, you know, going back
to the kind of hierarchy of needs. It makes perfect
sense. But so many people struggle with that.
And it might be through, you know, exercise and
performance at the highest level in a sport,
or it might be through addiction, or it might
be through even narcissism, you know, whatever
the thing is, but it's filling that void. And
that void is unfillable if you're trying to please
a person who chose probably through their own
trauma to not be present in your life no 100
like it's man it's so sad when because now i
can now i feel like i can see it more out when
we run our calls when we go out you know in in
public even and just looking at family dynamics
as they interact you know i i can see it's almost
like an epidemic and i don't think it's it's
anymore. I don't think it even just stops with
those of us that have been abandoned in one way
or another. You know, I think that social media
now plays a huge part of feeling like we don't
add up, you know, unrealistic expectations and
that can compound definitely on the feelings
of, for those of us that, you know, have grown
up either with the childhood trauma of. Being
left behind and just trying to realize, hey,
this is not, like you said, trying to please
someone who's not there anymore, who's choosing
to remove themselves from your life. And being
able to forgive is the hardest thing to do, but
the most healing. Not for them, but you got to
realize that you're doing it for yourself, right?
You're forgiving for yourself. They don't have
to accept it. You know, you don't even technically,
even though it's good, it's good practice to
reach out and at least try to say, hey, I forgive
you. I'm feeling this way, but I forgive you.
You got to find your way back to healing because
it just it compounds, man. Absolutely. Well,
going back to your childhood, growing through
the school ages, what were you doing as far as
exercise and sports? My mom was really good at
keeping us active in sports. I guess single mom
reason, three boys. I think that was kind of
a must, right? Like, hey, just go get your energy
out, play some sports. I got to take care of
the house, which is perfectly fine. And I love
that she did that. So growing up, man, I played
baseball, soccer in high school. I played football.
I did fencing for a little bit, I think for like
a year. That was actually pretty fun. I enjoyed
that. Yeah, it was a lot of fun. um i shoot what
else man fencing soccer football basketball i
grew up in upwards basketball i'm not sure if
you're familiar with that but like the church
it's like a i guess it's like a church sponsor
like basketball league it's called upwards and
they have it at different locations around actually
i'm not sure if it's like national or just florida
based or whatever but grew up with that and um
yeah man i love sports i love love playing it
my son now loves it i've coached him and uh baseball
and football now and this next season we're going
back to baseball i think that's where he's landed
um and it's it's been something ongoing man i
started training jiu -jitsu a few years ago and
that's that's been an insanely awesome journey
and sports has been a huge part of my life for
like physical mental just clarity man it's been
great Yeah, I absolutely love, love, love jiu
-jitsu. I've got a great gym up in Gainesville
where I train. I travel away from Ocala there
just to go with that group of people because,
again, you're talking about community. There
are some great schools here, but as far as aligning
with the kind of person I am and the community,
I will gladly drive 45 minutes each way just
to go roll with those guys. Oh, absolutely, dude.
We're not meant to go through this life alone,
man. You've got to find your people, you know?
And once you do, it's, it's life changing. It
really is. A hundred percent. What about career
aspirations? When you were young, were you dreaming
of the fire service or was there something else?
Nah, bro. I was, I was, I am, I'm a last minute
type person, man. And that's, you know, a fault
to a fault. I'm a last minute type person. So
I graduated high school, basically having no
idea. what i wanted to do i had a long list of
course but i was like not a clue all i knew was
i didn't want to be stuck in an office doing
the same thing day after day i just had no idea
what that looked like um wasn't until actually
a local music shop in downtown claremont where
i used to take guitar lessons i ran into a buddy
of mine while i was hanging out there one day
and he had actually started going through fire
standards and was like hey man you should probably
look into the fire department. We were catching
up. He's like, I'm going through the fire department.
It's awesome. It's the greatest thing ever. Talking
it up. I was like, all right, yeah, I'll look
into it. I looked into it and signed up for the
next available class. I was like, yep, looks
good. Sounds great. Let's go. Where did you go
to fire school? Lake Tech. Okay. What year was
this? 2008. So like August 2008, I did fire standards.
And then in February 2009, I did EMT at Valencia.
How competitive was it then to get hired? I had
a horrible time. I had horrible timing. I started
volunteering. Thankfully, I started volunteering
like right off the bat in a town called Montberg.
They had one little station, you know, you ran
a handful of calls a year, but it kept my search
up. Right. So I searched for, let's see, 2008,
nine, 10. I searched for three years before I
found a job. I tested for over 40 different departments
at that time. People who were hiring were either
like, all right, we're taking three people. And
you're like, well, they already know what three
they want. Right. Or they were making you pay
to test. I honestly don't know. People still
do that, but they're like, take a hundred bucks
if you want to take our test. I'm like, no, I'm
not doing that. That's ridiculous. So it was
super competitive, man. Thankfully, I was able
to volunteer for those three years. And then
I got picked up by Polk County actually in 2011.
See, this is what is so important for people
to hear is, you know, and actually there was
a lot more jobs around our area than other parts
of the country to consider in. But when you look
at it now. you know, like you said, people were
paying to test. Now departments are paying people
like hiring bonuses to even come to that department.
So when people say to me, oh, well, you know,
for example, not to beat this, you know, flog
this dead horse, but with the 2472, well, people,
you know, we can't even get people now. It's
like, yeah, but we used to. Very recently, people
used to line up around the building. People used
to fill stadiums, picking up an application.
that's what the fire service is supposed to look
like. So we can get back there. But think about
this. Think about the horrendous leadership that's
taken us from the hiring environment that you
and I entered around the same time to where we
are today. We've got to take some ownership of
this. you guys have done some made some horrible
decisions that we've fallen from thousands of
thousands people testing to begging high school
students to come straight into the fire service
so the people will come but they are not idiots
they see the conditions that we're working in
and now with the internet they're like that looks
a bit i want to serve but i guess the fire service
doesn't really take care of their people let
me go do this other thing instead so when we
fix it you know, it will go back to the environment
that you and I were in because I think it's healthy.
If you're still testing two or three years later,
there's a good chance that you truly want to
be a firefighter. For sure. Yeah, dude, it's
sad. It is sad, the night and day difference.
I mean, you hit the nail on the head. These kids
are looking at it being like, what's in it for
me? You know, how is this supposed to help me
out? And back in the day, I mean, literally,
I remember testing for Orlando. I tested twice
for Orlando. Both of them had over 2000 applicants.
Right. Because at that time, everyone wanted
to go to Orlando. And by the third time, I was
like, it's not that it's not worth it. But, you
know, the people more and more people kept applying.
And because you wanted to get in, you wanted
to be there. You wanted to be the one that was
like, yes, I got hired. They picked me out of
all these people. I worked my butt off for this.
And then now we get people. loads of people now,
no fault to them. Totally understand it. You
got to do what you got to do that. You know,
I met tons of good people this way, but they
come up cause their department from down South
tells them, Hey, go get, go up to your, you know,
the department up here, go get your medic paid
for, get some experience. And by that time, the
hiring cycle will come back around and we'll
pick you back up. You know, by the way, we're
switching to 24 72 now too. right yeah oh and
by the way you also get a raise yeah exactly
yeah so you know your pre -education and come
back for about a week right yeah and you can't
fault people for that you know you're looking
around like how how is this so blatantly obvious
to everyone else except the people that are actually
supposed to be making these decisions and yeah
it's it's frustrating man honestly it really
is Well, what angers me is, for example, Orange,
where I worked for quite a few years. The number
we were just talking before we hit record, I
was at the 343. We'll be again this year. Every
year. And there's names of our fallen on my back.
And it was six, 10 years ago. And it was 100.
And I've even forgotten now, like 120 something,
10 years later. And these are not just Orange
County people, but people in departments where
I have worked or completely the local ones around.
And so we know we have this health crisis. We
know there's a performance crisis. But what really
angers me is the decisions of these people that
work 40 hours a week and go home at 5 o 'clock.
Those decisions are paid for by our firefighters
and their families when they're working 56, 80
plus hours a week. This is their children. We're
talking about being present as a parent. How
unfair is it that that child doesn't get to see
their mother or father? Because they're working
double what these people in admin are working,
who caused this crisis and are taking no responsibility
for it. So, you know, I want to get the entire
fire service educated and angry enough to push
back and say enough is enough. This needs to
be a national standard. You know, there are literally
bodies in the ground that show how not to do
it. It's time to turn it around. And it's happening
here in Florida. There's revolution. But my anger
comes from, you know. dead firefighters and then
destroyed marriages destroyed relationship with
children you know crippling addiction all the
things that we see and it is you know 99 reversible
you know that you can't get everyone but we could
turn this whole crisis around but you have to
have real leaders not people that scurry up a
ladder with a bunch of papers in their hand right
no absolutely and and more and more it's becoming
you know I'm realizing that those real leaders
that you're talking about are, are people like
you, you know, people that are actually in the
trenches that have been there that, that have
seen it from the inside and then are able to
take a step back and be like, this is have used
the platforms available and be like, this is
wrong. This is, this is wrong. We are literally
killing our own people and shrugging it off.
Like, like it's nothing, man. You know, that
it's. I can't tell you how many stories I've
heard from, from people who get mandatory and
they're like, what am I supposed to do with my
kids? You know, like their spouse works too.
And he's like, I'm, I got kids to watch and the
counties that are like, well, sucks to suck,
figure it out. And you know, like you should
never be put in that position where you have
to choose your job over your family. Like, what,
what, what, what does that say about, you know,
the higher ups when it's like, oh, well, sorry,
not sorry. You know, you know, it's just, it's.
I feel your anger, man. I'm right there with
you. It needs to change, but we are the change.
We can't expect anyone else to come do it for
us. It's got to be a revolution. I do believe
it's starting, but there's got to be a revolution
inside the actual departments themselves from
the working firefighters to push this change.
Absolutely. Well, I don't think a lot of people
know this, but the reason I left Orange County
specifically is I was a single dad. And literally
there was one morning. And I was told I was going
to get hit with a mandatory again. And like you
said, figure it out. And I'm like, all right,
I'll figure it out. I will not be here next shift
onwards. You figure it out, motherfucker, because
I'm done. You can't tell me I can't go home to
my son. So I just put my papers in. I'm like,
I'm done. I'm out. And I was in the process of
reading Greek. So I wasn't guaranteed. I'm like,
I don't care. I am done with this. And then,
you know, that led to the podcast. And here we
are. But, you know, like you said, I have experienced
that. I've been a single father working 56 hours
already, no Kelly, and then consistently being
told at 730 in the morning, you can't go home
to your child. Unacceptable. Any other workplace,
people will be like, not happening. But we just
kind of take it. But I mean, the problem is that
our workforce is so beaten down, so sleep deprived.
that they can't see the wood for the trees. They
can barely get through their 24 hours. So by
stepping out, it gave me the lens that most people
don't have to be able to say, hey, this is glaringly
obvious, but I couldn't see it when I was in.
But I sure as shit can see it now, and I'm more
than happy to point it out for everyone else.
Yeah, absolutely, dude. You do an incredible
job of it, man. And you can't keep forcing people
to work. and then be surprised when we have health
crises when we have people falling down you know
falling apart on the job when we have people's
you know marriages falling apart when we have
addiction issues and then kind of play stupid
in the fact that you know we're not we don't
really know why we have a retention problem we
don't know why morale is so down it's like really
because We do, you know, we sure as heck do.
And we're trying. And, you know, within the past
year, man, I've kind of come to the same realization
as you. We I'm getting a lot more vocal now about,
hey, we've got to do something better to take
care of our own because literally and there's
good people that are out there, you know, trying
their best within the department. But there's
got to be more because what we have now is just.
destroying us. You know, I've lost five friends
within the past four or five years to, you know,
unaliving themselves and a lot of them left behind,
you know, kids as well. And it's like, should
never be pushed to that point. And it's not just
job related. I'm sure, you know, I'm sure they
got other stuff going on, but what if we fixed
their ability to go home, recover from shift.
actually be present with their family instead
of stressing out about how they're going to pay
the bills, how they're going to, you know, provide
for this family. Oh, I got to work more hours
to barely make it. And I'm going to miss more
time with my family, which stresses out my spouse,
which stresses out my, you know, my kids. And
it, it's, it's so fresh. Like I'm trying not
to get overly passionate, you know, cause then
I'll just start going off on it, but it's, it's
frustrating, man. So, I mean, I love what you're
doing and is one of the big reasons why I finally
said enough was enough and started speaking up
myself is for people like you. So thank you.
Yeah. I mean, just to add to that as well, I
know hypothetically, if you lose 200 recruits
or, you know, people that should still be working,
it's roughly $20 ,000 per recruit to train, equip,
et cetera. four million dollars of taxpayers
money you're wasting not to mention the tens
of millions in overtime so when people say to
me oh we want more money like well you're just
you're just pissing money down the drain when
i don't understand how the financial people from
these cities and counties haven't said this years
ago wait a second why are we wasting so much
money but if the taxpayers knew that tens of
millions of dollars are being wasted when you
could be recruiting you know a d shift And the
level of service would go up exponentially and
the cost of injuries and sicknesses would go
down exponentially. You know, it's a no brainer,
but it requires courage. And that's the thing
from everyone, from the firefighter through the
city and county council, you know, so I'll get
off the soapbox. But it's important because I
know, you know, I worked there, you know, and
I know and it's been, you know, when I was there
and I was there, I got hired. 2008 in orange
county to 2013 and the whole time i was getting
mandatory especially when i became a medic which
by the way they were screaming for medics i put
myself through they wouldn't even give me uh
educational reimbursement for medics nothing
and i had to ride with a different department
marion county so yeah zero support and then mandatory
at the yin yang so yeah i mean you want to you
want to keep people you gotta you gotta treat
them well it's that simple It is. It is. I was
actually the first. That's funny that you say
that. We were so close to getting hired together,
but I was actually the first class that Orange
County was a condition of employment that they
started their paramedic school program or whatever.
So I was the first class that was like, hey,
you got three years to be a medic, which was
great for me because I had spent the past however
many years as an EMT. I was bored. I was ready
to move on and get something. something more
and they're like yeah you're gonna pay for it
sure why not absolutely and then medic school
in itself is such a stressor man it's such a
like how many marriages have been destroyed from
medic school you know how many people come out
of it with so many more health issues than they
went in you get a lot of great knowledge man
but it's it's brutal and then i know it wasn't
as bad as when you know you guys were in um but
to be mandatory when i first got out uh cleared
as a medic it was every third shift i was getting
mandatory every second to every third shift for
i can't even remember how long because like you
said they're screaming for medics and it took
a while for that to catch up but it was just
like you know i was on And Rescue 30 at the time,
I spent just shy of 10 years at Station 30. So
I was like, all right, Rescue 30. All right.
Now you got mandatory. Do you want to Rescue
42? All right. You got mandatory. Do you want
to Rescue 40? All right. You want to Rescue 43?
And it was like that circle of just mandatory,
you know, so the beat down continued. Busy houses.
Busy, busy houses. Yeah. So it was nuts anyway.
yeah all right well we'll move from that but
it's just it's an important you know um perspective
and i think when each time a new voice gives
their you know their kind of story and their
view of this it just adds these layers and it
is it's completely irrefutable now i tell people
the economics the science on the health side
the science on the mental health side there is
no dispute like it's just a case of debunking
everyone's myths and showing them the actual
truth and of course it's real i mean like you
said all the all the negative side effects that
we're seeing but i am an incurable angry optimist
and it is it is gonna it is gonna get better
even texas i just had your department is almost
there they're gonna be the first ones in texas
to go we just had one in north carolina we have
one in uh was it kentucky i think it was kentucky
i think i saw that one yeah yeah so it's happening
you know and you can be a thought leader and
at the front and get all the best recruits or
you can be the last ones and explain to your
constituency why you've had to close fire stations
because you lack the balls to actually lead in
the front so choice is yours all right moving
on so let's let's first talk about um you know,
physical and or mental health as you progress
through the job. Obviously, it's going to lead
to what we're talking about today. But what was
that journey for you as far as psychological
and physiological? Oh, dude, it was, I mean,
it was rough, man. It didn't help that I got
hired. And within the first year, right before
medic school started, we had our son, we moved
into a new house. And then two months later,
I started medic school. Right. So being away
for, for 90 hours a week, um, with all that new
stuff going on when you should be home, you know,
or when you should at least have time home to
be supportive of your spouse, to, to get used
to raising a family, stuff like that kind of
sucked. And I, for years, man, I wrote it off
as I think many of us do is just, um, it's all
part of the job, right? Like it's, it is what
it is. And you start not sleeping at all. And
I know some people can fall asleep at the drop
of a hat sometimes. And they're like, Oh yeah,
I can. It doesn't matter if I'm home or I'm at
work, I can fall asleep like that. But I'm like,
but it's not good. You can't tell me it's good
quality. You know, even if you do, even if you
are able to take a nap or sleep, you can't lie
to my face and tell me you get good quality sleep,
especially after several years on this job. Right.
So the sleep was the first thing I started noticing
going, especially being at busy houses. Right.
So you have 51, correct? I was at 70. So we were
70 pre's rescue as well. We were second due for
50 and 51. So it was it was not the, you know,
the busiest, but we were just one click back
from all the battalion for busy stations. Which
sucks. That's still way too close. Is being the
backup. Yeah. So, I mean. you get so yeah so
struggle with sleep obviously sleep issues came
um got really addicted to caffeine really quickly
as we all do it hasn't helped that the hospitals
are stocking the fridges with them you know and
uh you can basically get addicted for free i
mean caffeine is is labeled as a drug and it
does have addictive properties and um Just trying
to stay awake, you know, as you start telling
yourself at first, it's, you know, just to stay
awake so I can be home with my family or be present
with my family or just so I can make it on the
drive home for crying out loud. You know, I've
been I just got to get home and then I'll be
fine. And then the crash hits. So, you know,
you chug another one. So I became very, very
dependent on caffeine. I think I was up to around
800 to 1000 milligrams of caffeine a day, at
least through energy drinks, just trying to.
survive man it was to say there was any quality
of life at that point would be a lie you know
you're just trying to survive day to day when
you're home trying to show up the best you can
for for your family and but but you can't show
up and be your best when you're just constantly
beat down when you're constantly you know just
tired um i got sick at the drop of a hat Like
anytime the wind blew, you know, we don't have
seasons in Florida, but anytime the wind changed
direction and I would get sick and, you know,
still have to try to find a way to go to work
because I can't afford to call out of work. And
it takes a toll, man, because you start really
thinking about, I believe first it chips away
at the reason you've gotten to the job in the
first place. And so you start second guessing
yourself as to why am I even doing this? What
is the purpose of this? You kind of forget why,
what drove you to start that passion you had
when you first start. And then for me, it bled
into a fear of failing, not only at what I started
career wise, you know, like I still got to show
up. I want to be good at my job. But. It bled
into a fear of, well, I can't even show up well
for my family because I'm having mood swings
at home. I can barely stay awake at home. I feel
like I'm just like struggling to figure out how
to just break even, you know, financially, emotionally,
everything like that, trying to show up for my
wife and I'm failing them. Right. Cause I can't,
I know I'm not being my best self. So I'm failing
my family. I have a young son who's, you know,
I want to be there for present for, right. Like,
like I didn't have, and I'm supposed to be setting
an example, but the example that I'm setting
is, is trash because I'm not, I'm not me. You
know, you start questioning yourself. You're
like, this isn't me. I know it's not me, but
I don't know how to fix it. And that was my biggest
struggle is like, I am failing. And I hate failing,
especially when it comes to my family. There's
got to be something I'm missing. And that was
the biggest struggle. It's interesting how you
phrase that, because for the people who have
been in the darkest place, and I reiterate all
the time this message, because it just needs
to be heard. So many people on here have been
at the darkest of places where they're sitting
there with the pistol, thinking about driving
into the overpass, whatever the thing is. And
99 % of them have reported the same thing. And
we don't hear this discussed with the suicide
conversation. The old school way was it's selfish,
it's cowardly. How could you think of your family?
But when you listen to this miswiring. of the
brain that comes from like and you said earlier
you know the mental health isn't just the job
but it's it's an amplification of it without
a doubt sleep deprivation organizational betrayal
the trauma that we see and then you throw in
unaddressed childhood trauma side effects of
you know psych meds alcohol relationship issues
financial issues and now boom perfect storm you've
got this miswiring and you just you just kind
of underlined it people start believing that
they are a burden to their family I'm a piece
of shit. I'm not even there for my own child.
They'll be better off without me. And when that
they'll be better off without me voice becomes
strong enough and they are from a profession
where they would give their life up for a complete
stranger. All of a sudden now you have this crisis
and they truly have this belief that if I just
remove myself from this world, my infant child
will be happier. My wife or my husband will be
happier. It's wrong to the healthy mind, but
this is the slow death by a thousand cuts that
people get to. You could just hear that guilt
and that shame of what you were just talking
about. It's tempting, man. It's definitely a
pull. Honestly, I've never openly admitted this
to anybody, so this is a first. I would be lying
if I said, mentally i hadn't gone down those
dark paths before and been like you know what
what is the what am i doing here i'm just making
things worse you know like what is what is the
point of all this like i'm supposed i can't my
family would be better off maybe yet you know
they'd be less stressed or whatever and the thing
that kept me from entertaining those thoughts
at least personally was the not you know my faith
played a big part in this but also the fact that
you know, I kept telling myself, I'm not going
to leave my son alone, you know, and just kind
of revisiting, kind of using the trauma that
I'd been through to speak life back into myself,
at least for one, you know, one more day or,
you know, for the next minute or whatever it
takes to get out of that dark place. Cause it's
when we sit by ourselves and we start entertaining
those thoughts. That's the problem. Thoughts
are going to come and go. There's nothing we
can really do about that. It's about training
your mind not to entertain those thoughts and
to think more positively about yourself, about
your situation, about the effort you are giving.
So that way, when those negative thoughts do
come in, it's not just an overpowering. just
feeling of just you know depression and just
it overwhelms your entire being and that's something
that takes it takes work and it's not easy to
do but yeah i think that that clarity that you
had is you know is is that that hope for people
and i think whether it's again that they didn't
have that thing they didn't have that moment
with you know i won't be here for my child or
you know whatever that that kind of corner turning
element is but then what's really terrifying
is you add in alcohol which a lot of us do and
now that very voice is like but think of your
son now that's silenced because we all know that
alcohol numbs you know whether it's attraction
whatever the thing is a lot of us have made mistakes
after drinking alcohol and sadly some of those
are permanent mistakes so you know having that
clarity i think is so important this is why i
think you know the hope and what i'm trying to
do with my tv show is like to put hope back into
you can get there and get people to understand
the moment they start hearing the voice way before
it's too late to be like ah i see you fucker
okay it's time for me to start leaning into some
other things absolutely 100 are circling back
to like uh just having people close close people
you know, around you that can support you, that
you can go to, you know, and that's another kind
of mental thing that, you know, we struggle with.
You get beat down at work. You had mentioned
earlier, you're just giving, you know, ready
to, to risk your lives for others at work. And
then you come home and you've got to give and
give and give to your family. And, you know,
there's, we, we both know self -care is the first
thing that goes out the window, you know? So
having at least a core group of guys or, or,
you know, women or people who, whoever you're
comfortable with to in those dark moments that
can actually speak into your life. You know,
when you're feeling like I got nothing left to
give and no one, no one's here for me, no one
seems to care. I'll say it again. We're not meant
to go through this life alone. So you got to
have that core group of people that are, know
you, you know, that you can be a hundred percent
honest with about everything that are going to
love you no matter what. And who are ready to
be there for you, just like you are, you know,
for other people. It's got to be a priority.
And I don't think people put enough time or effort
into developing those type of relationships,
honestly. Yeah. I mean, you look at just ancient
humans, you know, or tribal humans, you know,
pre -industrialization, if you like, you know,
we were in a village. You say it takes a village.
There's a very good reason for that phrase. And
we are supposed to have that community around.
And I think even if you look at it evolutionarily,
if I got that right, you know. There is a very
intrinsic element that stops us from deliberately
harming ourselves. When you stand the side of
a road, normally, you know, you're like, oh,
let's move a couple of feet back, you know, from
the curb. You know, if you stand on a tall building,
you get that kind of tingling if you get too
close to the edge. That's a natural response
because you are supposed to be here. You are
supposed to protect your children. And I would
argue, you know, a lot of the suicides happen
when we're kind of in our, you know, 40s, 50s,
60s. You're now the tribal elder. You're the
one that can actually make the mature decisions
and guide the group and be that real kind of
cornerstone for your entire village by that point.
So you have a purpose at every single step. So
humans are designed to be here as long as they
possibly can. So when there's this internal monologue
to like, oh, no, you're useless. Take yourself
out. That is whether you're religious, the devil
whispering in your ear or the psychosis of crisis
or whatever you want to label it. That is not,
you know, that voice is wrong. Hands down, that
voice is wrong. I love that you said purpose,
man. Every single one of us is here for a reason.
We all have purpose. Sometimes, you know, it
takes a while to find. Sometimes it's hidden,
you know, and we got to kind of search for it.
But man, if you're listening to this or, you
know, whatever, like you have a purpose. It's
just that you have to find it. If you don't feel
like you're in your purpose now, it's not because
you don't belong here. It's not because no one
wants you here. It's not because any lie that
is being told that you're telling yourself, but
it's just because you haven't found your purpose
yet. Once you find your purpose, things become
so much more immensely clear mentally, emotionally,
everything. It's crazy. Absolutely. And the same
with your tribe. Your tribe might not be your
fire department or your station. It might be
a men's group of people from all over the States.
Or a jiu -jitsu school in Gainesville. Right.
Which apparently I need to hit up because that
sounds like fun. It is. It is indeed. All right.
Well then, so that's the kind of psychological
journey you've talked about. There's this group
of men that's really helped with your growth
journey. What other tools, if any, have helped
on the emotional side? And then let's kind of
walk through how you start exploring gut biome.
For sure, man. Honestly, I started reading again.
Sounds kind of cliche, but, you know, kind of
got to dig through some of the more. How do I
say this? Just kind of like self -help books,
you know, and start reading some actual from
actual people who. have been there, who know
what they're talking about, who've lived that
life. And I got a whole list of books on my bookshelf
right now, yours being one of them. And just
reading anything and everything that I could
get my hands on about how to just mentally overcome
the struggles, how business -wise, how to mentally
run a business, how to show up better for family,
and then just talking. I used to not talk to
people, if that makes sense. I would talk to
them, but I was very closed off at the same time.
Learning how to be okay with sharing my story
and sharing my struggles openly is such a huge
weight off your shoulders. That's why I'm an
open book, man. Anyone can ask me anything. I'll
give you an honest answer right off the bat.
I got nothing to hide. And even selfishly speaking,
it's for me too. I don't want to hold on to anything.
I've held on. to those feelings thoughts i've
you know struggled with the people pleasing aspect
where i felt like i had to fit in with everything
and that's a drain that's a mental and physical
drain so reading a lot has really helped me finding
good podcasts you know such as yours and ed mylets
and um a whole bunch of others um to just speak
into your life man i never keep learning i think
that's that's something else always find something
new to learn Because I feel like if I'm not learning
something, I get complacent, you know, and then
I start kind of forgetting what I'd already learned.
So if I keep my learning muscle going, then I
retain a lot more and I can put into practice
a lot more what I'm actually learning without
getting complacent. I hate getting complacent.
It's so frustrating when I find myself in that
space. So I try my best to keep myself out of
it. Yeah, I think it's humility as well. I found
this as a firefighter is, you know, when you
look, if you wrote down all the types of calls
that we could have, I mean, it's almost an endless
list from the EMS side to, you know, whether
it's an operational level of the special ops
stuff, because we will be doing extrication,
rope rescue, etc. You know, and all the other
things like the compassionate back to bed calls.
And I mean, you name it. It's such a diverse
skill set. The moment that you think you've got
it all figured out in the fire service, I mean,
truly is the day you should reconsider your profession.
So I found the fear of just not being good enough
because I'm never going to be good enough at
each one of these tenants. That was that was
really humbling. And it kept me wanting to learn.
It kept me doing classes at the college and going
to conferences and all the other things. But,
you know, we've got to remember that that can
also apply outside the fire service. But it's
just, I think the problem is it's so overwhelming
if you're all into the job that you find yourself
studying nothing but EMS and fire stuff. And
you sometimes forget, as you mentioned, the self
-care and all the other things that pertain to
you, which in turn will actually raise your performance
as a firefighter and a medic as well. 100%, man.
I speak out about this a lot. I'm going to start
doing it a lot more. uh even more now but the
way that this job can quickly become your identity
is scary and and it's not it's so easy man and
it's not your identity like you are you know
it's just not there and i know this job takes
up so much of our time and training you know
on duty off duty everything you know but it's
people need to understand stop their identity
they're someone completely unique and different
when they're on duty when they're off duty and
that's what's special that's what makes them
you know who they are it's not the fact that
you're a firefighter you know it's not the fact
that you have a sticker on your car or you wear
a shirt on your off duty or when people ask you
know about you the first thing you want to list
off as a firefighter it's not the fact that you
pick up overtime after overtime after overtime
because you just love the job and you've got
to make money and er you know i got i met all
sorts of people who who who you know kind of
their job or their identity kind of revolves
around this job i'm like no dude like no like
that's that's unhealthy that's unhealthy it's
an unhealthy mentality it's unhealthy physically
and I love that you said you got to realize that
there's stuff outside of the fire service that
is beneficial to you, right? That you can train
on or that you can learn or, you know, you have
your own unique hobbies and ideas and stuff.
You need to explore those too. It's, it's okay.
The job will be here in three days. We are. Absolutely.
Well, I think this is, this is the beautiful
thing about the 24 72, just touching that again
for a moment is. If you have a fully staffed
department and you have a 72 hour period between
shifts, now that gives you enough latitude to
figure out what else you love doing and whether
it's, you know. health coaching or landscaping
or teaching people guitar whatever the thing
is we have other passions and now you create
other tribes and that is incredibly healthy because
god forbid you lose your job you know you you
know you just simply retire now you have another
identity or even identity you have another group
another tribe another purpose to go to whereas
if all you know is the fire service and every
other extra hour you work is also the fire service
not to mention the sleep deprivation that goes
with it right it's creating this kind of you
know the the rotting of the brain and therefore
the belief in the identity versus you go all
in for 24 hours you know you're a phenomenal
firefighter you're well rested you you're performing
well you're working out you're training and then
off shift now you're a present parent you're
a present partner and then you're an entrepreneur
and you get to forge something else as well So
I think this is what's beautiful is we're not
supposed to just be firefighters. The guy that,
you know, the produce manager in Publix doesn't
walk around wearing a Publix produce shirt and
take extra produce shifts. You know what I mean?
But I'm sure he's very proud of his position.
It's the same with us. I'm sure that guy loves
sports. He loves guitar. He loves whatever else.
And when he leaves Publix, he focuses on the
other things in his life. Absolutely, man. I
love that. Yeah. And the 2472s would just give
that extra, that extra way to recovery, man.
So you can, so you can focus on that. I mean,
it takes 24 hours at least to, if you're doing
it right, which let's be honest, none of us really
are to properly recover from a 24 hour shift.
So if you take one of those days, you know, and
actually set it aside for recovery, and then
you've got those extra two days to spend time
with your family, you know. pursue your passions
it's just dude it would fix that alone would
be so so game -changing for a lot of people well
they actually shown it takes 72 hours to recover
yeah oh is it 72. oh holy cow yeah it's a swedish
i mean again this is a standalone study it's
kind of small sample group i think it was like
12. um but uh um daniel hoguera's uh interview
he talks about this But this was actually a very
fit cohort. It was a Swedish fire department.
And yeah, they found it was a full 72 hours.
And if you think off -going shift, we always
say, you know, one on two off. Well, from midnight
to 8 a .m., you were working. So that wasn't
a day off. Right. So really, 24 -72 has given
you two days off instead of one. Yeah. So, you
know, when you look at it that way, it kind of
reframes things. All right. Well, then. So. Going
to gut bacteria, it's funny. My dad has been
talking about this forever. He was a vet and
I remember him doing fecal transplants, you know,
orally on horses, like literally when I was a
kid, so 40 years ago. So if I want an hour conversation
with my dad, I just start talking about poo and
off he goes. So how did you find yourself becoming
aware of gut biome and then kind of walk me through
that journey? Yeah, man, absolutely. So my story
actually starts with my bride story. So she's
kind of through her as how we got started. A
couple of years ago, she had been experiencing
some really bad stomach pain, kind of like in
the diaphragm area. And over the next two years,
man, we saw every specialist imaginable, right?
She tried a whole bunch of different medications,
endoscopies. everything, man. But it was to the
point where she was, it was hurting her to breathe.
She was having vasovagal syncope. You know, I
can remember sitting on the sofa one night, we
were watching one of our shows and she stands
up to go to the bathroom and I just hear a loud
boom. She just hits the ground right in front
of our bedroom door and, um, complete pass out.
She was completely out of it. Um, but she was
alert enough to be like, I, I don't feel right.
Call, you know, call nine one one. And she's
still. out she's diaphoretic she's i barely feel
feel her radial pulse i'm like what in the world
man so you know rush her to the hospital or whatever
her bp was low um run all the tests in the world
and nothing you know nothing can be found so
she's obviously getting frustrated western medicine
shocker isn't really given any insight into anything
um then one doctor i think even told her she
you know this was after she gave birth to our
son and he was like you know it's just your xiphoid
process trying to find its place back after pregnancy
i was like that's weird like i haven't heard
that one before i don't know that's a real thing
or if you made it up but all right sure but you
know that you know obviously that that didn't
help anything she was still having that pain
so um i was at where was that i had gotten floated
that night actually I was at 76. So I'm actually,
I got, just got transferred to 76 about a month
ago, but I had floated to 76 for the shift as
a diver. And, um, at one o 'clock in the morning,
she calls me and she's like, I cannot take this
pain. I cannot breathe. Like I'm calling, you
know, my mom who lives down the road, um, we're
going to the hospital and quick sidebar. Actually,
it's, it's funny because every, now that we're
talking about it, every big moment in my life
has been because someone else has either shared
something with me or shared their story with
me to inspire me or give me leadership guidance
to making my decision for the better. Right.
So that's just, sorry, I just kind of clicked.
Like the power of your story is huge. So if that's
another reason to keep going, you have your own
story to tell. Like they, like a dude telling
me about the book wild at heart completely changed
my life. My. uh future mother -in -law actually
was the one to set my wife and i up she was an
er nurse and she was like hey i think my you
know my daughter and you would be perfect together
here's her facebook you know um anyway i'll cycle
back around all that it's got myself off topic
but so she so i leave at one o 'clock in the
morning i meet her at the hospital um They run
quick scans on her and the doctor's like, I have
no idea how you're not septic. Your gallbladder
is so inflamed and backed up with gallstones.
It's leaking into your abdominal cavity. It's
coming out like yesterday, right? So they rush
her into surgery. They take out her gallbladder.
She spends a day or so recovering in the hospital.
And then they send her home with, hey, here's
three medications to take. Try to stay away from
greasy foods. Good luck, you know, figure it
out. We just removed a vital organ in your body,
but you know, you'll be all right. You'll be
fine. So it shocker, it was not fine. It did
not get better. She, she cannot eat anything
afterwards. She couldn't. lick a piece of lettuce
and without getting sick, like it almost got
worse really, which was weird. She was still
having that pain in her diaphragm area, her chest
area wouldn't go away. And I had a dear friend
of ours reach out after a while. And she's like,
Hey, I don't know if this is for you, or I don't
know if this can help, but I know you've been
struggling with this. Maybe you guys should focus
on, on Shelby's gut and try to figure out if
maybe, you know, gut health is kind of. kind
of a route to go and first time ever that i've
even heard the words gut and health put together
from anybody right so sure at this point whatever
whatever we'll try it like she's miserable right
there's no quality of life in this whatsoever
so and it's scary it's scary to know that you
know just simply breathing is bringing your spouse
pain on top of the fact that you know the syncope
even though it wasn't frequent can still happen
you know and it ended up being vasovagal syncope
but um so yeah man so she sent us some stuff
she's like here's what i've used you know you
might want to you know try it out for a little
bit see if it helps so she started working on
her gut taking some supplements for her gut to
balance it out and um within i think she says
within two months man she came off all her medications
that they had sent her home with um and she's
able to eat now basically not that she does she
watches what she eats but she can eat whatever
she wants without having any issues whatsoever
over the next few months she starts noticing
that pain in her chest has gone away she has
no more pain she has no more syncopal episodes
she has no more trouble breathing like it's just
gone it it corrected itself right and throughout
this past year she's weaned herself out of off
of her antidepressants and she feels better without
them you know and it's like amazing what what
right like oh my gosh what is this thing why
don't why has no one mentioned this before first
of all right that's what pissed me off first
i was like with the amount of money and time
and how many doctors we've been to not a single
person not nothing against them but not a single
freaking person said anything about gut health
for any reason you know for any reason for digestion
issues for mental issues nothing so i was like
all right well i'm having some gi issues like
maybe maybe i'll just i'll mess around and i'll
take it so i took it because i was having irritability
some extra gas some bloating um it gotten bad
where The guys on truck 30 threatened to kick
me off if I didn't figure out something to fix
it. They're like, bro, it's bad when your firehouse
guys threaten to get rid of you because of that.
I was like, shoot, man. Right. They're like,
don't let Ian eat anything. It'll be horrible.
I was like, well, dang it. I love food. I got
to eat. But it was good in me. So I took that,
started taking the same stuff she was taking
to help balance and got out. Within a week that
had completely gone away. And I was like, shoot.
All right. That's, that's helpful. That's cool.
I'll keep taking it. You know, I feel better.
I'm not gassy at all. Sweet. We'll keep this
rolling. Within that next week, we talk about
having sleep issues for the first time in 15
years. I slept through the night perfectly fine.
No tossing, no turning. I didn't wake up once
and I woke up. And I was like, what just happened?
What day is it? Where am I? Like, it was a good
sleep. You know, one of those where you just
wake up like, holy cow, I feel refreshed. I forgot
what this felt like. And this job screws up our
sleep so much. And that's a whole separate topic.
But I was like, dang, what in the world? So I
kept going with it, man. I kept at it. I was
getting daily migraines. My migraines disappeared.
I don't know if you can tell, but I have racing
thoughts a lot. I got to keep up with the thoughts
in my head. Believe it or not, that actually
became a lot more manageable. I'm able to focus
a lot better now. My caffeine dependency that
I was on, those 800 to 1 ,000 milligrams a day,
I cut it, man. Within a week after that, gone.
Energy drinks out the window. I don't need them.
I was getting energy from I didn't know where
at the time, right? I just felt energized. I
woke up. I didn't need. caffeine. It was phenomenal.
It was almost like I was taking a super serum.
That's what I felt like. Everything started just
kind of leveling out. I was like, holy cow, man,
what is this? So I did what any one of us would
do. Dr. Google typed in gut health and, and I
just let it populate the search results. And
it was gut health and anxiety, gut health and
depression, gut health and sleep, gut health
and blood. blood pressure, gut health and mood
swings, gut health. And it was just like everything.
Right. So I took about an hour. I started researching
those first five that popped up and that's all
it took to convince me that this, this is the
missing. I talked about like realizing there
was a missing link earlier. This is the missing
link. For especially for for firefighters, for
our health, for our wellness, for our well -being.
And that was it, man. I started talking about
it. I started helping people, you know, themselves.
And it's it's been a wild journey. Yeah, it's
just been nuts. I mean, it makes sense, right?
There's there's estimated like 100 trillion microbium
in your gut, which is 10 times more than you
have cells in your body, which is. insane to
think about. If you think, if you take 1 .3 seconds
to think about it, it's like, that's an astronomical
number. That's crazy. And it's all, you know,
held in your gut. So it makes sense that if you're
even a little bit, your microbiome is even a
little bit off, that's going to lead to, to some
issues somewhere, right? Like it's that impactful,
not to mention the fact that the gut brain access
has the most nerve endings between those two.
other other than you know your brain and your
brain stem your gut and your brain talk to each
other more than anything else in your body i
was like the more the more i researched it man
the more nerdy i got with it i was like holy
cow every single person needs to know about this
isn't your gut 80 of your immune system too if
i got that right 80 of your immune system 70
of your serotonin um it It balances everything.
That's how your blood pressure gets balanced.
Actually, the microbium, it sends signals. It's
how your blood sugar gets balanced. It's literally
like the central computing system that just sends
signals to the brain. It's like, hey, we need
to adjust things. It's all from your gut. It's
crazy. Yeah, 80%. So it's interesting. You mentioned
that your wife is caught a Filipino. brother
-in -law has had issues with his gallbladder.
My wife actually had issues not to the point
where she had to have it removed. I use a supplement
company called Thorn and they have a product
called BioGest, which kind of helps when you
do have a fatty meal, just kind of helping your
stomach break that down. And then I take their
probiotics as well. I've been a big believer
in probiotics and prebiotics. I drink kombucha
and, you know, all the things and try and minimize
my caffeine and alcohol. But that's, that's just,
you know. my own little personal journey so talk
to me what was the initial thing that your wife
used and ultimately you used for your own personal
you know um healing that you just talked about
yeah for sure man that's awesome i love that
you've had that journey because it's it's so
important dude and the foods we eat it's i'm
sure you know and you've had you know other guests
on here before that have talked about it from
the Our culture in the West here, everything
we eat and drink, man, inflames our bodies so
much from cereal to the alcohol to everything,
dude. It's insane how much inflammation our body
actually holds on to and the toxins from all
that. Well, yeah, to answer your question before
I get ahead of myself, it's a company called
Plexus. They make plant -based natural supplements.
They're based out of Arizona. And the balance
that she and I both started with is called TriPlex.
It's got a, uh, microbium activating little like
drink packet that you can dump into a water bottle,
take with you. Um, it feeds your gut with a whole
bunch of good bacteria. And then at night you
take a bio cleanse pill and a strong probiotics,
such as the one you take, I'm sure. And not only
does that just strengthen and feed your gut more
overnight, but the bio cleanse helps your body
naturally get rid of. all the heavy metals the
toxins the bloating the bad bacteria that that
your body holds on to and it does all that without
you know one of the biggest things i get is oh
i'm going to be on the toilet no you're not it
just naturally helps you get rid of it so you're
not spending your day you know crabbing your
brains out being like oh this was the worst decision
of my life it's like no no this is this is an
easy cleanse yeah So is that something that you
take ongoing or is it for a certain period to
reset everything? No, I take it or I guess we
take it. We take it every day. It comes in monthly
supplies. So every month, you know, we have our
subscription run. I added she added in a product
called Vital Biome, which is how she was able
to wean herself off of her antidepressants. It's
specifically geared for for mental health. And
that's what actually helps me. focus and gets
rid of my brain fog and everything i use that
religiously she's used two other products she
works in called nerve and ease which helps reduce
total body inflammation and she feels so much
better taking that too and the nerve just helps
with nerve pain joint pain and it's So she's
added on those. And then I've added on a product
called Active because, I mean, I still need some
energy throughout the day sometimes, but it's
clean energy, no crash, you know, all the plant
-based stuff. So your body absorbs it nicely
and got a wide variety of stuff, man. You can
kind of tailor it to your own needs, but the
TriPlex is definitely the one that balances everything
out, the starter. So you had that personal experience
yourself. Walk me through then the journey of
deciding to take this information and start helping
other people. Yeah, it was just it was my own
research. Like as soon as I found out how much
was connected to, you know, had its roots in
the gut, how many illnesses, how many mental
struggles, how everything I started comparing
it to reports of what our community struggles
with the most. is our highest you know killers
on duty off duty and started comparing that with
the studies i found to link gut health to those
specific problems and every single one of them
rooted back to the gut health from blood pressure
you know cardiac issues anxiety depression addiction
even You could find the National Institute of
Science Medicine, I believe is what it was called.
It has multiple studies that they've done on
each of these topics. And I was like, if all
of the top problems that are plaguing our community
are all rooted in this one thing in one way or
another, then people need to know, right? People
need to know about it. I need to help other people
understand that, hey, it doesn't matter how fit
or healthy. you are which is great workout is
important nutrition is important but supplementing
right especially in this job that's constantly
trying to wear you down take you out you know
disrupt you in every way imaginable making sure
that your insides stay balanced is so important
and so i started speaking out more about it and
um started i i guess you know getting clients
in that you know help build custom gut health
routines for and yeah it's been crazy man we've
had people lose lose some stubborn weight that
they haven't been able to get off you know they
start feeling better like i said that natural
energy boost is just huge man for such so many
people um uh under a doctor's supervision we've
had people come off of blood pressure medication
diabetes medication um People have given up,
given up, gotten off of anxiety medication, and
we're just seeing people's quality of life just
skyrocket, man. And, you know, with anything,
with anything good, right? Consistency, right?
Everyone's body adjusts. differently in a different
timeframe. You got to give your body time to
get rid of the old before it starts building
the new. It takes about 90 days for a person's
gut to completely get rid of everything and start
building off of that. But the people that have
stayed consistent, man, have seen incredible
results. And that's why I'm just like people,
this needs to be blasted out however possible.
And I appreciate you giving me the chance to
talk about it. Well, I want to try the product
myself because I've been So many areas of my
life have been doing really well. I've been meditating.
I've reduced the alcohol a lot, but bloating
is a thing and I'm quite lean still. So when
you're lean and you got a little pot belly, you
know, it's kind of annoying. So, and then, and
then, you know, I'm not getting too graphic,
you know, the bowel movements. And, uh, when
this was, when I first started, uh, my first
left orange County, I actually went plant -based
for a bit, like six months. And that was phenomenal.
Until it got to a point where I'm like, I need
to put some meat back in now. I was starting
to feel the weakness. But I never had such a
healthy gut. I mean, not being too graphic, but
no wipes were a common occurrence. I had a irritable
bowel and removing the dairy overnight. You know,
all the cramping and everything I used to get
went away. And then the blood work I had on my
physical that year, the doctor literally said,
can you tell me how you eat? I've never seen
blood work this good before. Now, my blood work
isn't like that now because I'm not plant -based
still. But again, you were talking about coming
off meds. I think what people don't realize is
that a lot of these diseases are reversible if
you catch them in time. Diabetes, hypertension,
hypercholesterol, all these different areas,
you can... 100 % you know reverse it even like
heart disease can be reversed cancer I truly
believe can be avoided or minimized through healthy
diet so when you're looking at the food you eat
and then you're supplementing in this case you
know and then my goodness now you switch to a
healthier work week as well I mean all these
are tenants of this health revolution that I
think that we're embarking on now and not only
in the fire service but in in the country in
general for sure dude it's it's insane yeah It's
absolutely insane. All that together, like small
steps, like just simply eating right. Like you
said, you switch it. I actually went plant -based
for two or three months a couple of years ago.
Like you said, I have the exact same feelings
about it. It never felt better. Like never felt
like I ran cleaner or stronger or anything like
that. but I was just like, all right, I need
a burger. You know, I need, I need, I need, I
need something like this is good and everything,
but give me a burger. So of course, you know,
like that's when the bloating and everything
came back, but yeah, it's, it's so important,
man. And there's so much I want to say about
it just because like, even as simply as, as your
sleep, like, even if you're healthy, but you
know, I've talked to some people who are like,
yeah, but I eat right. I exercise. Okay. That's
great. But did you know that that's lack of sleep
you're getting is actually could be the thing
that takes you out in the end. Like, I don't
think people understand that. Like if you get
less than five hours of sleep for one night,
I'm a hundred percent with you. I do believe
that cancer can be completely eradicated through,
through correct like supplementation and diet
and everything. But did you know that after five
hours of sleep a night or less after just one
night, your cancer fighting cells get depleted
by like 70%. It doesn't surprise me. And I've
said this a lot. Reedy Creek, where I used to
work, hardly ever saw fire. I mean, hardly ever.
I was there five years. I bought a semi fire
full of tires, towels. That was it. But they
dropped like flies of cancer. But what they do
is they run. They do run a lot. Now, a lot of
the calls are complete BS and it's Disney abusing
their fire department. But these men and women
are up numerous times during the night. So what's
the common denominator? They're not putting their
gear on. They're not exposed to carcinogens as
far as, you know, byproducts of combustion. But
they are sleep deprived chronically. so there
we go and we know that the world health organization
has categorized shift work as a known carcinogen
so it's again the science is there yeah it's
there man and then you you compound on top of
that what is the first thing we do when we get
home baby duty or hey after shift you want to
go i'm gonna play some golf for eight hours you
know or let's go have i don't know Had some,
some buddies go get drinks right after shift,
you know, before headed home. And it's just,
we continue to destroy ourselves. It's like,
you just got beat up for 24 hours and we give
ourselves no time. Our nervous system has no
time to learn how to relax and recover and rebuild
before we're just continually destroying it again.
It's, it's, it's sad, man. We, we are our own
worst enemy sometimes, but that's, that's why
people need to know, right? Need to get. the
information, the correct information out there
and just serving, being able to serve people
in this way and give back to the community in
this way has been so rewarding. What about diet
principles? The one thing I've seen is you literally
get these camps, carnival, you know, vegan, whatever,
and they're fighting tooth and nail that there's
the only way. And that's absolute bollocks. I
mean, the common denominator is they're all removing.
shitty processed food usually and you know starchy
and all that kind of thing so when it comes to
gut health specifically what are the some of
the principles that guide you as far as how you
choose your meals that's a good one so when i
do my shopping at the grocery store uh i i stick
to the outside of the grocery store try not to
go to the internal aisles for anything anything
that's anything organic or healthy for you is
going to be on the outside. Right. So I picked
that up pretty, pretty quickly. So when you do
your shopping, stick to the outside of the grocery
store, but specifically, man, just trying to
understanding that. I think a big thing is that
like, nobody's going to be perfect. You're not
going to be perfect in your journey. You're not
going to eat clean a hundred percent of the time,
you know, like that's just unrealistic. So. Finding
a good balance between we still try to eat clean
with whatever we do, but also understanding,
hey, if you give yourself like, I don't know,
10 % of foods that you're able to eat and actually
enjoy eating because you can eat clean and enjoy
it too. But, you know, 10 % of the time, you
know, what you're eating is technically bad for
you. That's okay. So, you know, stick to high
fruits, high veggies, lean meats. I like quinoa
instead of rice still. I actually did not great
on the texture, but as far as like the nutritional
value goes, quinoa. So you still want to try
to involve a lot of plants as much as you can.
You know, plants, fruits, veggies, that's the
groundwork, man. It really is. Kombucha is really
good. I know you mentioned that earlier. And
just if it's naturally grown and that's so...
I hate to even take a pause there because there's
so many things that say organic or like natural
on it that you just look at the ingredients or
you look how it's processed and you're like,
that's not, come on, man, that's not organic
at all. So you got to be careful with that. I
mean, so that being said, doing your own research
into the products you are getting, maybe finding
healthier. alternatives, which I help people
with also when they, when they come to me is
just educate yourself, you know, stay clean,
educate yourself, get help, you know, help all
my clients with their eating if they need it.
And you're not going to be perfect. Give yourself
some grace. Absolutely. It's interesting. Again,
when people say it's expensive to eat healthy,
I'm like, that's bollocks. Go to a farmer's market,
you'll fill two grocery bags full of vegetables
for the price that you'd get just one in the
store. And then I think the other thing is you
look at how much you're going to be saving if
you eat well versus what you pay on insurance,
co -pays and meds and all those things. And then
the other thing that I'm very conscious of these
days is every time you buy the shit food, you
are subsidizing the shit company. Every time
you say, okay, I'm going to pay a little bit
more for the eggs or the meat or whatever it
is. you are voting with your dollar you are subsidizing
the the healthy farmer and therefore supply and
demand publix and all these other companies going
to go oh wow everyone's buying the grass -fed
meat maybe we should get more of that and then
lo and behold the price goes down so you know
we do vote with our dollar the more that we buy
the healthier stuff and we've seen it in publix
The organic or healthy section used to be like
one foot wide shelf. Now it's all over the store
because they know that people are starting to
lean into that. So understand the long -term
benefits. Same as, you know, we talk about the
work week. It's the same thing. It's a proactive
investment in your own health that will pay dividends
5, 10, 15, 20 years from now. Oh, absolutely.
And you got to be thinking long -term, right?
You got to be thinking long -term when it comes
to that. It is so easy to be like, well, it's
more expensive, but just know that that money
that you're saving, you're going to pay with
your health later on. And it's going to be a
lot more expensive. Like you may not necessarily
see results right away, right? Because again,
you have to undo a lot of bad usually before
you can start seeing the good. But it's so much
better than having your quality of life tank
at. 50 years old you know or retire at whatever
age you got to retire out now which is it keeps
raising because you know we can't afford anything
but and then having to deal with health issues
for five to ten years that you don't really get
to enjoy your retirement or your life that you've
literally worked yourself to death for and then
just to leave it all behind it's exactly it's
sad yeah yeah it's like working those five top
years taking all the overtime in the drop and
then you do drop drop dead two years later for
one you know what i mean yeah i think i think
firefighting is still ranked number two for like
the is either number two or number one last i
checked for like the shortest life expectancy
post retirement and i was like that's that's
got to change too like we got us literally working
ourselves to death it's it's so frustrating Sorry,
I didn't mean to interrupt you there. Think about
as well the kind of people that are on the drill
ground, day one. It's not your average person.
So really, our profession should have longevity.
We are probably some of the fittest, most resilient
members of the community. That's why we're doing
what we're doing. And we're dying 12 years younger
than the average person, the banker, the grocer,
whoever. So it speaks volumes. It screams volumes.
It's nuts. It's so sad, man. I hate it. It definitely
drives my mission here, you know, and it's allowed
me to dream more outside of the fire department,
you know, where I thought, you know, I used to
be one of those where, you know, fire department
was everything and it was life. And now kind
of in a way, this has helped open my eyes to
seeing the bigger picture and being like, well,
if it takes my time, it takes my health and it
takes my family. What was the point of this?
fire department in the first then you know the
fire department means nothing then kind of right
like i'm not willing to give all that up just
to say that i'm a firefighter and work myself
to death absolutely and trying to help other
people get there as well i just saw a thing on
social media and again it's the kind of claim
i can't imagine it's falsified um almost a hundred
thousand japanese people are a hundred or more
years old So when you think about when we're
dying and how we perceive a 50 -year -old and
normalize obesity and a bunch of meds and everything,
that's just halfway. My grandmother was 105 when
she died. My granddad was almost 100. He was
99, but he got cancer. That's what killed him,
not old age. So when you think about it that
way, I'm maybe barely at the halfway point now.
So another entire lifetime ahead of me. if i
just take care of myself we've been given this
genetic potential for i would argue either side
of 100 years seems to be pretty much so you know
are you going to let your employer shorten that
you know or you're going to fight for this amazing
calling and then create a working environment
around it where you can be a proud firefighter
retire out of that and then have a long healthy
retirement being another asset in your community
in a different way Yeah, absolutely, man. You
got so much life to live, but you only get one.
Living it in just survival mode instead of thriving
is bonkers to me. I don't get it. Why would you
not want to take care of yourself to where you
are enjoying every second of life knowing that
you're taking the best care of yourself possible
rather than let yourself get beat down and struggle?
you know and be literally be on the struggle
bus for for the rest of your life my goal is
to 100 100 hit 100 but uh there's a reason why
those blue zones across the world get that rating
right it's that community we talked about it's
that clean eating we talked about it's i mean
obviously low stress i'm pretty sure a lot of
them actually kind of just like communally work
together for whatever they need and they share
everything and it's the useful mind is that so
hard to model yeah Yes, sir. You know, the way
you can tell they're playful, they, you know,
they interact, they laugh, they dance, they sing.
I mean, just some real basic stuff. We're so
damn serious and we're worried about, you know,
demented presidents or bright orange presidents
that ruin our fucking day, day in, day out, rather
than what's actually important, which is like
you said, the people that we love. Oh, absolutely.
I will never understand how. It's all part of
the distraction method, man. I've never understand
how people can let someone who knows absolutely
nothing about their existence affect their lives
so much. When I'm like, you have your life to
live, man. Let's go. You can be doing such awesome
things. You can be living such an awesome life.
Why does it matter? Just live the best life you
have. Come on. It'll be so different. I promise.
You have purpose. Find your purpose. It'll be
so different. It'll be so worth it. Just ask
yourself this. What's the advantage of a fat,
sick population if they don't push back? Imagine
a healthy, strong, community -minded population.
I would argue that you'll ultimately find great
leaders finding their way to those positions.
Regardless of your political persuasion, we would
get good humans back in these positions. But
right now, if it's like WALL -E, you know what
I mean? If we're just kind of rolling around
and just all we're focusing on is whatever our
favorite news station is telling us, of course,
we're just going to... get more of the same.
But imagine if we worked on our own mental health,
we worked on our own physical health, we worked
on our family relationships, we mentored in our
community, that kind of, I'm using air quotes,
leadership just would not fucking exist anymore.
No, it wouldn't. And first off, how scary accurate
is WALL -E? Like, what the heck, man? Or Idiocracy,
too. They nailed it. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh.
We actually recently watched that at the station.
And yeah, I was sitting there going, oh, we're
like two years away from this, aren't we? Did
you hear the story about the costume designer
for Idiocracy was looking for a shoe? And she
was like, what could people be wearing that no
one would actually wear in real life? And they
put Crocs on people. And here we fucking are.
So there we go. No way. Yeah, go watch it again.
Everyone's wearing Crocs. And that was supposed
to be a joke. Oh, I'm going to have to do that.
That's hilarious. That's awesome. Anyway. Never
worn a pair of Crocs in my life, actually, as
surprising as that is. My son's got them. My
wife's got them. Yeah. Each to their own. but
uh the best athletic wear you see people lifting
weights and all kinds of stuff in them um anyway
so going back to solutions though so for people
listening talk to me about you know the kind
of mentorship and programs that you specifically
are offering now yeah sure man so right now i
got two different levels um of kind of coaching
that i do i'm looking forward to to breaking
into into three and um so right now it's just
like the basic gut health package right where
hey i'll work with you on your custom supplements
i'll work with you on on a diet plan you know
whatever you need to let's get you balanced let's
get you feeling better let's get you more uh
present with your family and let's hit these
results you know for you so i got that going
on and then i just recently got my life and performance
coaching certificate so i'm pursuing that as
well to throw in another level of it where not
only are we going to balance you out with with
your gut because i believe everything like i
said i'm a firm believer everything can got its
roots in your gut so if that's balanced out and
we build a firm foundation then we can move forward
but that's for more you know people that have
that are that are struggling you know you're
struggling with your marriage you're struggling
with i'm not an addiction counselor but you're
you know you know You're struggling with maybe
self -medicating or you're just like, hey, my
life is not where I want it to be. I need some
extra coaching and guidance to help me get right.
I need some extra help just. figuring this life
out because i'm drowning right because i've been
there so with my experiences and the stuff that
i've been through and now with the completion
of this course and the certificate i offer another
level that includes the gut health and like the
the life coaching as well um and all of that
has allowed me to to dream bigger than I ever
thought I could possibly be. Right. And I'm kind
of going a little off here, but it's still on
the same thing. I'm not offering this yet, but
the goal is to build this business up to serve
thousands of people who want it. Cause I believe
across the nation, across the world, people are
struggling and they need to hear that they are
valued. They need to hear that, Hey, you belong,
you have a purpose. We can get to the root issues
mentally, physically, emotionally, you know,
and you can live. a good quality life um so the
dream is to build the business up enough to be
able to fund a retreat style place in the mountains
um i already have a potential location you know
for for the future but where i would love to
be able to bring either first responders by themselves
or first responders and their families who are
struggling who just you know haven't taken a
vacation in a year who haven't who are just burnt
out, you know, on the verge of collapse, I would
love to be able to have two different sections
in that retreat. One is, Hey, I'm gonna pay for
you and your family to come spend like a week
in the mountains, relax, get away, take a family
vacation, you know, like just relax, reset, do
what you need to do with your family. come stay
with us for a little bit. We'll provide some
amenities, stuff like that. And then the other
side would be more of maybe like a longer stay
where, you know, first responders who are struggling
maybe can come and I'd like to be able to pay
their way to, you know, to be able to pay and
be like, Hey, come, we will sponsor you to come
to our, our retreat on this side where you will
get, you know, certified counseling, you will
get help and you will get, um, you know, obviously
still, still. basic in the thought process but
the help you need to overcome the battles you're
struggling with back at home and we will help
set you up with the life coaching the addiction
coaching whatever it is to help make sure that
when you get back to the job you get back to
your family or back home whichever your situation
is that you are set up for success and my dream
would be to be able to create that retreat and
be able to bring people in without them having
to pay anything to serve them that way. That
sounds amazing. Where can people find what you
have at the moment and then obviously be able
to keep their eyes out for that when it emerges?
For sure, man. Facebook and Instagram is where
I'm just kind of spreading the news right now.
So it's just Ian Thurber on... Facebook, Ian
Thurber underscore on Instagram, because I found
that Instagram is kind of weird with special
characters. I was going to do, you got to put
it at the end for some reason. I don't know.
But, and that's just it, man. That's where I
just share my story. That's where I share what,
you know, success of the clients that we've worked
for. That's where I share updates. And right
now that's where it's at. So we're getting started
and I'm really excited for the future. Beautiful.
Well, I just want to throw some closing questions
at you before I let you go. You mentioned Wild
at Heart already. Are there any other books that
you love to recommend? It can be related to our
discussion today or completely unrelated. There's
so many. There's so many. Buy Back Your Time.
I don't know why it took me so long to freaking
remember that. But Buy Back Your Time has been
awesome in just helping me learn how to, you
know, In a business mindset, but also in my personal
life, maybe delegate more time. Help me realize
I don't have to do it all myself, right? Whether
it's with your family or your business team or
the group of people that you surround yourself
with, you don't have to do everything by yourself.
And it's actually a lot more beneficial if you
kind of find... people to collaborate with or
whatever to help you move along forward in life
than trying to do it all yourself. So 10 times
is greater than two times is a great one. For
the fire service, your book has been incredible.
My friend, Ryan Rodriguez from Arizona, he wrote
this book here. It's called Own It. It is excellent
resource for the fire service as far as really
challenging. Like we've talked about the leadership
to be like, a challenge their leadership to actually
care about your employees your people and how
it starts at the top right if you want good morale
you want a well -run department then you need
to model that you need to you need to be the
example of that but also realizing that trust
and integrity in the fire service starts with
us starts with the fireman rank you know from
rookie onwards like you're day one it starts
with you and you got to be held accountable to
that. So we got a awesome book on holding each
other accountable in the fire service to make
it better in the end. And yeah, man, it's been
some wild reads for sure. Brilliant. All right.
What about films and documentaries? Ooh, that's
a good one. Honestly, I don't get around to watching
a lot of TV these days. So, Might have a slim
pick in the old mind brain as to, to movies.
I'm, I'm a nerd though. So, uh, I'm always going
to favor star Wars and Lord of the Rings. Uh,
always go back to the classics, man. That was,
uh, I grew up with those and I love those. Um,
but, uh, there was a documentary we just watched.
What was it? Oh man. My mind's failing me right
now, brother. I'm going to, I'd have to text
it to you, but. No problem. No problem at all.
All right. Well, the next question, is there
a person that you'd recommend to come on this
podcast as a guest to speak to the first responders,
military and associated professions of the world?
Two of them actually. Yeah. The guy who wrote
this book, Ryan Rodriguez would be amazing. He's,
he's done so much. To to really challenge the
status quo of the fire service and really make
sure people are being held accountable, you know,
or taking accountability for yourselves. Hey,
you don't like, you know, what's going on in
the fire service. All right. What are you going
to do to fix it? You know, really challenging
people to step up and stop waiting for people
to do it because it's just not happening, obviously.
And then I got a buddy I work with in the health
industry. His name's Michael McGrail. He's an
ex -Marine volunteer firefighter. Um, and I now
work with him in the gut health industry and
he's an incredible encourager, incredible leader.
He's different aspects of life from the Pentagon
to home life to, you know, volunteering and getting
that kind of different perspective on the fire
service is just, he's, he's an incredible asset.
Beautiful. Well, I'd love to connect with both
of us. I know Ryan and I have friends online,
but yeah, it's funny. The universe just kind
of aligns everyone at the right time. So yeah,
they'd be both great guests. So thank you. Yes,
absolutely. All right. Well, the last question
then, what do you do to decompress? That's a
good one. So my decompression starts on the ride
home. I've become very good at blocking out,
not blocking out, but like when the shift is
over and I clock out and I get in my car and
I head home, that's done. My shift is done. I
don't think about it. I don't dwell on it unless
something crazy happened that I want to tell
my wife when I get home. But it's you got to
leave work at work. So I leave work at work.
I throw on a podcast or I throw on some music
and I just go all in on the podcast or music.
I have wide varieties from don't laugh at me
from like K -pop. to hard metal and anything
in between is, is kind of up for grabs, but depending
on my mood, but get home, you just got to find
some time to, to be to yourself. And I know that's
hard, especially with kids, right? As soon as
you get home, you kind of got to take over daddy
daycare. Sometimes you want to make sure your,
your wife gets, gets some rest as well. Cause
you know, full -time mom or even a working mom
is, is, I mean, that's, that's a lot of time
and effort. It's a full -time job in and of itself.
So. Making sure. Honestly, sleep has been a huge
decompression. I used to think that I'd work
my butt off at work, come home, and I'd have
to stay up late into the night either trying
to spend time with my bride or getting stuff
done around the house just to feel productive
in a way that I hadn't done during the day. My
bride and I still find time to do that, but we've
rescheduled and re... structured our routine
to that way. Now I'm making sure that I'm getting
quality sleep every night to allow my body to
recover. Focusing on my gut health is a huge,
huge way I recover, making sure I'm consistent
there to fight off the inflammation, you know,
energy issues, bloating issues, stuff like that.
And then for me, I'm very routine oriented. So
I plan my days out in a routine and actually
making sure that I stick to that routine that
includes, you know, getting up early, working
out, self -care time, making sure that that is
prioritized, that self -care time is prioritized
early in the morning, but helps me feel more
accomplished and actually helps me decompress
than if I just kind of went through the day and
stuff happened and then, you know, life throws
curved balls at you. You get to the end of the
day, you're ready to go to bed. You're like,
crap, I meant to like do three loads of laundry
and cut the lawn today. And none of that got
done. And now it's kind of in the back of your
head, eating away at you. And so prioritize self
-care time, allow yourself time to decompress.
For me, routine, I schedule things out. I write
it down because it helps me remember. And it
also, I can feel less stressed about it when
I cross it off the list. And then honestly, man,
my... My faith plays a big part in my life. So
making sure that I also make sure I have time
to read the Bible and spend time in prayer. And
it's not something that I just do to check off
my list, but it's something that I actually spend
adequate time doing each and every morning because
the closer I feel to God, the more at ease I
am in my day -to -day life, knowing that, you
know, with my faith that I'm not in control.
of a lot of things that go on in this world and
that's perfectly okay and you got to find that
time whether it's you know meditation i know
you said you're big on meditation prayer whatever
it is just find that alignment man and find that
internal peace that that's huge you can deal
with a lot by just doing that absolutely i'm
amazed how well meditation works you can be in
a real funk and then just say i will do it and
within about three or four days you're already
like oh okay Things are starting to clarify.
The monkey mind is starting to quieten down.
And again, whether it's prayer, meditation, you
know, walking the dog, I mean, whatever the thing
is, that quiet time, because we don't, we don't
get that. Everything is just screened at us.
You can't even go to a restaurant anymore without
bloody TV being in there. So you got to switch
off. You got to. That's actually a good one too.
Yeah. Shut off all your electronics. Yeah. All
right. Well, I want to thank you so much. It's
been such an amazing conversation. Haven't had
that many about gut biome and certainly not very
many as far as that in the fire service. So I
want to thank you so much for being so generous
with your time and coming on the Behind the Shield
podcast today. I mean, thank you so much for
an interview. Like I said, it's an honor to have
this opportunity to speak with you, brother,
and to share. And yeah, man, I'm looking forward
to seeing you continue to grow and seeing all
the lives that you continue to touch, man. That's
inspiring.