WEBVTT

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This episode is sponsored by TeamBuildr, yet

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another company that's doing great things for

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the first responder community. As a strength

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and conditioning coach myself who also trains

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tactical athletes, dissemination of wellness

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information is one of the biggest challenges.

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Now TeamBuildr is the premier strength and conditioning

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personal trainer, does not have to create that

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within your own department. Secondly, you can

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send out programming, but also individualize,

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which I love. So you blanket program for everyone.

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collate health and wellness data. It integrates

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with wearables. And I think one of the most important

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things is obviously it tracks. To me, it's imperative

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that we as a profession start tracking our people

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from day one and then over the full span of their

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career, therefore catching potential wellness

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issues and injuries before they happen. Now,

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if you want to try TeamBuildr, they are offering

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you, the audience of the Behind the Shield podcast,

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a free 14 -day trial to experience all of the

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features. And if you want to take a deeper dive

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into TeamBuildr, listen to episode 1032 with

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Melissa Mercado or go to teambuildr .com. And

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I'll spell that to you because it's not as you

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think, T -E -A -M -B -U -I -L -D -R .com. Welcome

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to the Behind the Shield podcast. As always,

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my name is James Gearing, and this week it is

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my absolute honor to welcome on the show veteran

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law enforcement officer, SWAT operator, and the

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founder of Soulful Training, Adam Boyd. Now,

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in this conversation, we discuss a host of topics

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from his journey into law enforcement, the importance

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of fitness in the tactical athlete, ultra running,

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breath work, the Wim Hof method, forging resilience,

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and so much more. Now, before we get to this

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incredible conversation, as I say every week,

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please just take a moment. Go to whichever app

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you listen to this on, subscribe to the show,

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leave feedback, and leave a rating. Every single

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five -star rating truly does elevate this podcast,

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therefore making it easier for others to find.

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And this is a free library of over 1 ,100 episodes

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now. So all I ask in return is that you help

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share these incredible men and women's stories

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so I can get them to every single person on planet

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Earth who needs to hear them. So that being said,

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I introduce to you, Adam. Enjoy. Well, Adam,

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I want to start by saying two things. Firstly,

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thank you to our mutual friend Raul for making

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this connection. And secondly, to welcome you

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onto the Behind the Shield podcast today. Yeah,

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thanks for having me. I'm super excited to be

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here and excited to see where this conversation

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takes us. So where on planet Earth are we finding

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you this afternoon? Right now I'm in Cleveland,

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Ohio, but I'm here visiting family. I normally

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reside in a small town in southern Arizona near

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the Mexico border. So I moved out to Arizona

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about 15 years ago and I bring, I come back every

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summer because, you know, it's a lot nicer in

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Ohio in the summertime than it is in Arizona.

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Absolutely. Well, let's start. Excuse me. I'd

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love to start at the very beginning of your timeline

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then. So tell me where you were born and tell

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me a little bit about your family dynamic, what

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your parents did, how many siblings. So I was

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born in Cleveland, Ohio. My father passed away

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when I was nine years old of cancer. My mom's

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never had a full time. She worked quite a few

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jobs in the last 20 or 30 years. She was a social

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worker. She's managed a store. She's done some

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different things. I do have a younger sister.

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She's two years younger than I am, and she manages

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the books for a construction company out here

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in Cleveland. So when you were a young man, what

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kind of sports and exercise were you playing

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back then? Oh, hell, damn near everything I could

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do, depending on the season. I mean, it was football

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in the winter. I started running at an early

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age, baseball all summer, basketball, tennis,

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golf. I mean, I just loved being active, and

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if I could get my hands on a sport, I wanted

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to play it. When you reflect back now, I ask

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people a lot that have been in our professions,

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plural. What elements did the individual sports

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or how did they factor into law enforcement and

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the same with the team sports? I think they factor

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in a couple of different ways, and I think there's

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also some overlap. I mean, sports definitely

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teaches you how to be a team player, right? Like

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you have a specific role on a team. Let's say

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you're the pitcher on a baseball team or the

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quarterback or wide receiver on a football team,

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whatever it is. You have a job to do. And I feel

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like law enforcement was very similar, right?

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Like whether you're a detective, you're a SWAT

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guy, you're a patrol officer, you know, all these

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moving pieces function as a unit and they all

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need to work together. So if the quarterback's

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doing its job, the wide receiver's doing its

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job, the line's doing its job, you're going to

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have a successful offense. And the same thing

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goes with first responders. You know, if patrol

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is doing a good upfront investigation, detectives

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do a good back end investigation. You have a

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supportive command staff. You got your, you know,

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your SWAT call outs for, you know, serious incidents,

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canine, all, you know, all these moving parts.

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But if everybody's doing the job and maintaining

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their role, you have a highly functional team.

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So I think there's a lot of overlap when it comes

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to sports from the individual side. I think that

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self -discipline that comes in that comes into

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play, you know, making sure you're lifting weights,

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making sure you're doing the conditioning. And

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yes, it's done as a group. But the offseason

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and the drive to push yourself to get better

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needs to happen from within. You know, we need

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to make sure that we are training all year round,

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you know, in a smart way. In high school, you

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don't really know what that means. But I just

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remember like even being at a young age, like

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I didn't have an off season. I didn't want an

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off season. I wanted to continue being active.

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And the discipline that comes from that, the

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drive that comes within directly translates into

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how you're going to do as a first responder.

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You know, are you going to stay fit? Are you

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going to stay mentally sound? Are you going to

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prepare for? the worst case scenario. And if

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you're not training in your off season, which

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in law enforcement, the off season to me means

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anytime that you're not in a life or death, immediate

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life or death situation. So I need to be training

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at the range for the absolute worst outcome.

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I need to be training in the DT gym, the jujitsu

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gym for the absolute worst outcome. I need to

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be training in the gym, you know, lifting weights,

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running. So when things get really, really bad,

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I have the physicality and the mental ability

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to overcome pretty much anything that comes my

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way. When you said you were running when you

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were young, was that longer distance even back

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then or was it shorter? Well, relatively speaking,

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it's quite a bit shorter. Long distance in eighth

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grade was about a mile. But I never really. I

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think eighth, seventh or eighth grade is really

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when I kind of got into the distance world. Our

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eighth grade middle school had a track team.

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You know, I wanted to run the mile because I've

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always been good at endurance events. And it

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wasn't structured when I was younger than that.

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It was like, hey, we're going to ride our bikes

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around the neighborhood and see how many times,

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you know, we can do this loop around the block

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and who can get there the fastest. And I wasn't

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training per se, but. What I was looking back

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now, I'm like, well, what I was doing was interval

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training. What I was doing was a long run on

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the weekends because we just wanted to go to

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somebody's house across the city and we didn't

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have a car because we were too young to drive.

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So we would ride our bikes or we would walk.

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And it was always a way to be physical without

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really realizing you were being physical. When

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you reflect back now, it's interesting. how many

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of us had a lot of struggles, a lot of trials

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and tribulations when we were younger, and it

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sent us into uniform. You just mentioned about

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losing your father when you were only nine years

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old. What elements of your upbringing do you

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think, you know, created struggles in general?

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And did any of them send you into the law enforcement

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direction? I think it definitely played a role.

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I can tell you I had another incident when I

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was young. I had a friend of mine that was was

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shot by his father and his father committed suicide.

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We were about 11 or 12 years old. And I remember

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SWAT setting up basically in our front yard.

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And, you know, my my my mom and my stepdad at

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the time. You know, it was it was they were always

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like pro law enforcement. It was like, you know,

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these are the helpers. They're here to make sure

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that everybody's safe. And, you know, the incident

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didn't turn out, you know, in a positive way.

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But they were there to ensure that they did the

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best they could to make sure that, you know,

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it was as positive as it could be. And unfortunately,

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that incident came out in a pretty negative,

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negative way. So that was that was the first

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time I really had any. real visuals of like what

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law enforcement did. I thought it was so cool.

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You know, they had the bear cat and the helmets

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and this, you know, you know, and all the cool

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gear. And I think that kind of, that always stayed

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in the back of my mind. And then, you know, growing

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up, I didn't really have much direction as far

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as like what I wanted to do. And I think more

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of my personality has put me in that direction

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versus like maybe my past. I really I really

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think that. I mean, I enjoy excitement. I enjoy

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being, you know, again, physical. I enjoy, you

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know, doing different things. And I saw law enforcement

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as that path for me where, you know, you could

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go in 100 different directions. And, you know,

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it was an exciting job and you get to help people

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and you get to do all these cool things. And

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I think most of those were really drove me in

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that direction. Were you already thinking of

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law enforcement when you were in high school,

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or was there something else first? I had no idea

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what I wanted to do in high school. Honestly,

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the only reason I went to college is because

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two of my friends were scholarship athletes,

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and I wanted to go hang out with them. I had

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no direction coming out of high school. I had

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no direction, I mean, frankly, in college as

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well. It took me quite a while to find my way.

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What were you studying in college? Justice studies.

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And I know it seems like it's a natural, a natural

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transition. Like, oh, I really wanted to be a

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cop. But the truth is, I just wanted an easy

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curriculum. And, you know, the foreign language

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requirements were minimal. The math requirements

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were minimal. And I was like, yeah, this is the

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spot for me. What about mentors in your life?

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Having your father snatched away from you when

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you were nine, obviously leaving somewhat of

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a void on the male role model side. Who were

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some of the people that steered you in the right

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direction after that? I was into martial arts

00:12:45.419 --> 00:12:48.500
when I was in college. And one of my instructors

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was a Kent State police officer. And I think

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he played a pretty big role in making sure that

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I stayed on the right path. You know, I did have

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because of because of the justice studies degree,

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I was surrounded by people that wanted to be

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cops. So it kind of like snowballed from there.

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But he was really helpful with that. Just, you

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know, again, with the discipline and making sure

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that you made the right decisions. And, you know,

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we had some long talks about, you know, what

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the job was really like, because I think that's

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one thing a lot of people maybe they see like

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the pageantry with the profession versus. what

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the reality is. And we were able to sit down

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and have some conversations about what the job

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actually looked like. You know, the overtime

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and then being away from family and like, you

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know, the real realities of the job and not just,

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oh, well, you could get into a bad spot and it

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could end, you know, it could end bad for you.

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It was the overall, you know, bird's eye view

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of the profession. I also had an uncle growing

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up. um who's been we still have a great relationship

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to this day and he's been a huge mentor in my

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life um he's the one who got me into ultra running

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uh you know listening to him talk about his races

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when i was a teenager we're just like you know

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i'm basically just starry -eyed on the ground

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right like um you know listening to the the tales

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of how we ran 100 miles and this and that and

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like it it always resonated with me He was also

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a Navy guy. He was a Navy diver. Again, I kind

00:14:25.360 --> 00:14:29.879
of admired that mental resilience that he always

00:14:29.879 --> 00:14:34.360
showed, the discipline. It always seemed like

00:14:34.360 --> 00:14:37.139
he had a good head on his shoulders and is somebody

00:14:37.139 --> 00:14:40.940
that I felt like I could look up to. So how did

00:14:40.940 --> 00:14:43.179
those conversations with the people around you

00:14:43.179 --> 00:14:45.399
and Justice Department and your martial arts

00:14:45.399 --> 00:14:48.820
colleague? steer you into law enforcement? What

00:14:48.820 --> 00:14:50.840
was that kind of corner moment, if you like?

00:14:54.700 --> 00:14:57.799
There was actually kind of a gap between when

00:14:57.799 --> 00:15:01.259
I graduated college and when I got into the profession.

00:15:01.519 --> 00:15:03.919
I think it was about, I think there's like a

00:15:03.919 --> 00:15:06.500
six or seven year difference. So when I got out

00:15:06.500 --> 00:15:10.299
of college, I went to work doing some blue collar

00:15:10.299 --> 00:15:17.169
stuff. During the 08 crash, I lost my job. decided

00:15:17.169 --> 00:15:19.169
I wanted to do the hardest thing I could think

00:15:19.169 --> 00:15:22.370
of, and I signed up for the Navy to go be a frog.

00:15:23.169 --> 00:15:25.309
That didn't end up working out through an injury.

00:15:26.129 --> 00:15:28.129
You know, again, my uncle, who I had mentioned,

00:15:28.190 --> 00:15:32.669
kind of, I didn't say he pushed me into it, but

00:15:32.669 --> 00:15:35.610
it was more of an admiration thing. I saw the

00:15:35.610 --> 00:15:38.570
life that he built for himself, so I thought

00:15:38.570 --> 00:15:41.710
I could maybe go in that direction as well. And

00:15:41.710 --> 00:15:44.509
then when I came home, I had a buddy of mine

00:15:44.509 --> 00:15:46.870
that I went to college with was like, hey, if

00:15:46.870 --> 00:15:49.190
you don't have anything to do, you know, I got

00:15:49.190 --> 00:15:52.850
an extra space out in Arizona. And I just packed

00:15:52.850 --> 00:15:55.870
up my dog, 300 bucks and a bag of clothes. And

00:15:55.870 --> 00:15:59.509
I drove across the country with, I mean, no job

00:15:59.509 --> 00:16:04.429
prospect, nothing. And I got a job as a corrections

00:16:04.429 --> 00:16:07.309
officer. And then my buddy, who was a police

00:16:07.309 --> 00:16:10.639
officer at the time. uh told me that his agency

00:16:10.639 --> 00:16:13.659
was hiring and i i applied and i'm getting hired

00:16:13.659 --> 00:16:17.000
and it i wish there was like this definitive

00:16:17.000 --> 00:16:18.960
moment but like it happened all of this like

00:16:18.960 --> 00:16:23.659
roundabout like weird way talk to me about the

00:16:23.659 --> 00:16:25.500
value of the perspective you got in corrections

00:16:25.500 --> 00:16:27.980
because i know for example in california when

00:16:27.980 --> 00:16:30.120
i worked out there as a firefighter a lot of

00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:32.580
the law enforcement guys had to go into corrections

00:16:32.580 --> 00:16:34.980
first for x amount of years before they could

00:16:34.980 --> 00:16:38.600
go on the street so what did that lens give you

00:16:38.600 --> 00:16:40.480
as far as the following years when you're out

00:16:40.480 --> 00:16:43.720
on the streets? Yeah, we didn't have that requirement

00:16:43.720 --> 00:16:46.440
there. So it was two separate agencies. I work

00:16:46.440 --> 00:16:48.980
corrections and then I could, you know, laterally

00:16:48.980 --> 00:16:50.919
just went over to the road at a different agency.

00:16:52.120 --> 00:16:53.940
Well, one, it taught me I didn't want to work

00:16:53.940 --> 00:16:58.159
in the jail. I did not care for. I really felt

00:16:58.159 --> 00:17:00.779
like I was you're kind of almost a prisoner yourself

00:17:00.779 --> 00:17:04.200
for eight to 10 hours. You can't bring in your

00:17:04.200 --> 00:17:07.609
cell phone. You can't, you know. You can't do

00:17:07.609 --> 00:17:10.049
this, can't do that. Like, you know, when you're

00:17:10.049 --> 00:17:12.009
walking throughout the facility, you have to

00:17:12.009 --> 00:17:14.190
make sure somebody else opens the door for you.

00:17:14.829 --> 00:17:19.630
And it gave me a different view of corrections.

00:17:19.809 --> 00:17:21.950
I have mad respect for the people that do that

00:17:21.950 --> 00:17:25.210
as a career because going into those pods every

00:17:25.210 --> 00:17:29.970
day with some really dangerous people, you know,

00:17:29.970 --> 00:17:35.230
takes kind of a special type of person. I wanted

00:17:35.230 --> 00:17:39.549
a little bit more freedom. And I think part of

00:17:39.549 --> 00:17:42.250
that, part of the draw to law enforcement was

00:17:42.250 --> 00:17:44.849
the freedom that comes with it. You know, being

00:17:44.849 --> 00:17:47.170
out in the community, being out in the neighborhoods,

00:17:47.289 --> 00:17:51.289
having discretion on certain calls, being able

00:17:51.289 --> 00:17:56.190
to make my own decisions. And while I think there's

00:17:56.190 --> 00:17:59.089
a lot of overlap and I think corrections is a

00:17:59.089 --> 00:18:02.140
good learning environment. uh because it teaches

00:18:02.140 --> 00:18:03.779
you how to talk to people it teaches you how

00:18:03.779 --> 00:18:06.980
to talk to criminals read cues uh you know you

00:18:06.980 --> 00:18:09.160
start learning a little bit about you know gangs

00:18:09.160 --> 00:18:11.960
and tattoos and all these other things that i

00:18:11.960 --> 00:18:15.119
think are useful on the street um it didn't provide

00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:18.460
me with the freedom that i was looking for it's

00:18:18.460 --> 00:18:20.359
amazing how many times i've heard that and it's

00:18:20.359 --> 00:18:22.579
it's so true firstly the ratio of corrections

00:18:22.579 --> 00:18:26.490
officer to incarcerated people is terrifying

00:18:26.490 --> 00:18:28.789
if you look at the numbers but then again you

00:18:28.789 --> 00:18:30.589
know you imagine someone let's just say has a

00:18:30.589 --> 00:18:34.029
you know 6 a .m star that officer goes into the

00:18:34.029 --> 00:18:37.930
jail in nighttime and then they're inside for

00:18:37.930 --> 00:18:39.549
all those hours and then they come out and you

00:18:39.549 --> 00:18:42.049
think about the impact of shift work and circadian

00:18:42.049 --> 00:18:43.950
rhythm and lack of you know daylight on their

00:18:43.950 --> 00:18:46.670
eyes and then the fact like you said that they

00:18:46.670 --> 00:18:49.390
really for those 12 hours have kind of got their

00:18:49.950 --> 00:18:51.849
freedom taken away from them, obviously not the

00:18:51.849 --> 00:18:54.089
same as the people behind the bars, but there

00:18:54.089 --> 00:18:56.170
is that element of, yeah, you're, you're exposed

00:18:56.170 --> 00:18:58.450
to the same kind of environment that the actual

00:18:58.450 --> 00:19:03.650
incarcerated people are. Yeah. And it just, yeah,

00:19:03.750 --> 00:19:06.029
it was, it's not an easy environment to work

00:19:06.029 --> 00:19:08.609
in for sure. And I said, again, mad respect to

00:19:08.609 --> 00:19:10.670
the people that do that as a career. It just,

00:19:10.710 --> 00:19:14.930
um, you know, I think for me, I just, I, I needed

00:19:14.930 --> 00:19:17.630
freedom has always been important to me. Um,

00:19:17.690 --> 00:19:19.799
I've always said, I've always had difficulties

00:19:19.799 --> 00:19:25.019
with structure. I was terrible in school. I mean,

00:19:25.039 --> 00:19:27.039
from grade school on, like, I mean, I barely

00:19:27.039 --> 00:19:30.680
got through college and high school. And the

00:19:30.680 --> 00:19:32.900
structure just didn't really work for me that

00:19:32.900 --> 00:19:35.019
well. And then why I thought I should go to the

00:19:35.019 --> 00:19:38.519
military, I have no clue. I just saw it as a

00:19:38.519 --> 00:19:42.619
way to do something extraordinary. And honestly,

00:19:42.819 --> 00:19:45.759
I think the injury that I sustained that ended

00:19:45.759 --> 00:19:50.630
my military career. uh, probably saved the rest

00:19:50.630 --> 00:19:55.970
of my career, if that makes sense. Um, I, I was,

00:19:55.970 --> 00:20:00.049
when I, when I injured myself, uh, I had a really

00:20:00.049 --> 00:20:01.950
hard time with it. You know, again, I didn't

00:20:01.950 --> 00:20:05.109
have really a ton of coping skills. Uh, before

00:20:05.109 --> 00:20:08.210
I went in, I, I had lost my girlfriend, my house,

00:20:08.210 --> 00:20:10.009
you know, it started to sound like a bad country

00:20:10.009 --> 00:20:14.809
song and, you know, I was. Probably partying

00:20:14.809 --> 00:20:18.049
a little way too much. That's what I wanted to

00:20:18.049 --> 00:20:21.769
call it at the time. Any chance I got, I was

00:20:21.769 --> 00:20:23.490
calling friends, hey, let's go to the bar. I

00:20:23.490 --> 00:20:26.029
never really drank alone. That wasn't my thing.

00:20:26.150 --> 00:20:27.869
I wouldn't sit at the house and just throw back

00:20:27.869 --> 00:20:32.369
beers. I wanted to be out, be social. But I think

00:20:32.369 --> 00:20:34.589
that was, for me, I didn't want to be by myself.

00:20:34.769 --> 00:20:37.349
I wasn't really able to handle what was going

00:20:37.349 --> 00:20:42.440
on in the back end of my life. Uh, when I came

00:20:42.440 --> 00:20:44.859
into the Navy and then I got the news that I

00:20:44.859 --> 00:20:47.000
wasn't able to continue through, through buds,

00:20:47.299 --> 00:20:51.119
I, again, I just kind of went back to old habits.

00:20:51.200 --> 00:20:54.200
I remember, um, God, there was like four or five

00:20:54.200 --> 00:20:56.940
guys in a row that like rang out and like, I

00:20:56.940 --> 00:20:58.900
would just take them out into town after we got

00:20:58.900 --> 00:21:01.519
secured for the day. Uh, cause you know, cause

00:21:01.519 --> 00:21:04.359
after you drop, you're kind of, kind of in limbo

00:21:04.359 --> 00:21:05.799
there. Like you're just kind of hanging out,

00:21:05.859 --> 00:21:07.859
waiting for the next step. And we would just

00:21:07.859 --> 00:21:11.380
go out and party our butt off. And so. You know,

00:21:11.380 --> 00:21:12.920
then the next guy would come and I would take

00:21:12.920 --> 00:21:15.640
that and I became known as that guy. Like, hey,

00:21:15.680 --> 00:21:18.519
life sucks right now. We'll talk to Adam. You

00:21:18.519 --> 00:21:20.680
know, he'll show you a good time. And that was

00:21:20.680 --> 00:21:24.559
kind of my my coping skill for that. And then

00:21:24.559 --> 00:21:29.619
after after the military, I didn't really. That's

00:21:29.619 --> 00:21:31.440
really when I started to make the shift to realize

00:21:31.440 --> 00:21:33.680
that, like, I need to do better. I need I can't

00:21:33.680 --> 00:21:38.220
continue this behavior. So you go from corrections

00:21:38.220 --> 00:21:41.430
to regular law enforcement. Talk to me about

00:21:41.430 --> 00:21:44.329
the front door of your agency as far as fitness

00:21:44.329 --> 00:21:46.390
standards and also the kind of mental health

00:21:46.390 --> 00:21:51.769
conversation. I mean, when I started there, that

00:21:51.769 --> 00:21:53.950
wasn't really a conversation for the most part.

00:21:54.750 --> 00:21:57.309
They had the academy standards and like the two

00:21:57.309 --> 00:22:00.390
weeks of pre -academy, you know, we're to kind

00:22:00.390 --> 00:22:02.670
of gauge to see where you were at. Like we did

00:22:02.670 --> 00:22:04.990
the mile, you know, the testing process, obviously,

00:22:05.089 --> 00:22:06.750
you know, they knew where you're at with the

00:22:06.750 --> 00:22:09.069
mile and a half pushups, sit -ups, 300 meter

00:22:09.069 --> 00:22:14.529
run, all that. And then after that, you graduated

00:22:14.529 --> 00:22:17.029
the academy at their standard. And that was the

00:22:17.029 --> 00:22:20.930
last you ever saw physical fitness. So what role

00:22:20.930 --> 00:22:22.910
did you find yourself as you progressed out of

00:22:22.910 --> 00:22:26.950
the academy onto the street? Well, I was a patrol

00:22:26.950 --> 00:22:30.210
officer for a couple of years. I gained some

00:22:30.210 --> 00:22:33.769
experience. We were a busy agency. So we were

00:22:33.769 --> 00:22:36.390
dealing with a lot of violent crimes. You gain

00:22:36.390 --> 00:22:39.859
a lot of experience pretty quickly. Then I found

00:22:39.859 --> 00:22:41.980
myself in the role of like a field training officer

00:22:41.980 --> 00:22:45.640
after a few years. Now looking back on it, I

00:22:45.640 --> 00:22:47.500
was probably a little too young to play in that

00:22:47.500 --> 00:22:50.700
role. We had a young agency. A lot of guys like,

00:22:50.759 --> 00:22:52.539
you know, two, three years on were training new

00:22:52.539 --> 00:22:55.079
boots. And I'm like, you know, we were just new

00:22:55.079 --> 00:22:56.859
boots at the time ourselves. Like, I don't know

00:22:56.859 --> 00:23:01.140
what we were doing training people. But that's

00:23:01.140 --> 00:23:03.140
what they had. That's what we had. We had kind

00:23:03.140 --> 00:23:06.559
of a, I don't want to say it was dysfunctional,

00:23:06.559 --> 00:23:10.460
but it was. The department just pieced itself

00:23:10.460 --> 00:23:12.859
together the best it could. I mean, I had an

00:23:12.859 --> 00:23:15.859
overall great experience there. And just like

00:23:15.859 --> 00:23:18.000
anything else, there's a lot of pros and cons,

00:23:18.140 --> 00:23:21.339
but I have to attribute to where I'm at today

00:23:21.339 --> 00:23:25.339
because of the agency. After about five or six

00:23:25.339 --> 00:23:28.279
years, I ended up testing for detective. So I

00:23:28.279 --> 00:23:33.099
went into our investigative unit and I led our

00:23:33.099 --> 00:23:36.279
domestic violence unit for several of those years.

00:23:36.980 --> 00:23:40.119
Ended up becoming our department expert witness,

00:23:40.380 --> 00:23:44.940
expert witness in strangulation. And then I spent,

00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:49.099
and then SWAT opened up. And that was kind of,

00:23:49.140 --> 00:23:52.039
you know, if I couldn't be a frog man, right?

00:23:52.140 --> 00:23:54.119
Like that's the kind of, that was my avenue,

00:23:54.240 --> 00:23:57.039
right? I could probably be SWAT. So I ended up

00:23:57.039 --> 00:24:01.700
testing for SWAT, getting picked up. Did that

00:24:01.700 --> 00:24:05.670
for three years. During all that, my investigative

00:24:05.670 --> 00:24:09.150
time, my time in SWAT, is really when I started

00:24:09.150 --> 00:24:12.769
to hit home with how much I valued physical and

00:24:12.769 --> 00:24:16.849
mental health. You talked about domestic violence.

00:24:17.250 --> 00:24:20.450
When you look back now, what were some of the

00:24:20.450 --> 00:24:22.970
common denominators that you saw over and over

00:24:22.970 --> 00:24:25.509
again as far as the factors that led to this

00:24:25.509 --> 00:24:30.250
issue over and over again? So the factors that

00:24:30.250 --> 00:24:32.690
led to the domestic violence problem? Exactly.

00:24:32.690 --> 00:24:34.589
Some of the underlying issues that we're creating

00:24:34.589 --> 00:24:38.789
in. Oh, goodness. Where do we start? How long

00:24:38.789 --> 00:24:41.230
can we do this podcast for? As long as you need.

00:24:43.650 --> 00:24:47.069
I mean, substance abuse was definitely a huge

00:24:47.069 --> 00:24:49.069
part of it. And I know that's not an underlying

00:24:49.069 --> 00:24:53.109
cause of DV. There's a lot of deep -seated issues

00:24:53.109 --> 00:24:56.190
there. I think a lot of it is it's generational.

00:24:56.190 --> 00:24:59.009
It's watching, you know, childhood trauma, watching,

00:24:59.029 --> 00:25:02.250
you know, your mom get abused. I mean, I've seen

00:25:02.250 --> 00:25:06.869
dads, grandmothers, grandfathers, physical, sexual

00:25:06.869 --> 00:25:10.109
abuse is fairly rampant at the agency that I

00:25:10.109 --> 00:25:15.089
work for. And I think they don't get out of that

00:25:15.089 --> 00:25:18.569
environment. So when you're seven years old and

00:25:18.569 --> 00:25:22.069
you see your mom get the hell kicked out of her

00:25:22.069 --> 00:25:26.079
by dad. or uncle or whoever it is like it almost

00:25:26.079 --> 00:25:30.579
seemed like nobody discriminated there and then

00:25:30.579 --> 00:25:33.279
you grow up and if you don't get out of that

00:25:33.279 --> 00:25:35.680
environment you're staying within the same neighborhood

00:25:35.680 --> 00:25:39.480
the same house you know a lot of times and then

00:25:39.480 --> 00:25:41.519
you're bringing your new girlfriend in and then

00:25:41.519 --> 00:25:44.079
that's what you know and it's really just seems

00:25:44.079 --> 00:25:48.009
like it's a learned behavior And you couple that

00:25:48.009 --> 00:25:51.150
with cultural trauma and childhood trauma and

00:25:51.150 --> 00:25:53.849
then throwing a bunch of alcohol and drugs, and

00:25:53.849 --> 00:25:55.569
then you have yourself a huge domestic violence

00:25:55.569 --> 00:25:59.230
problem. See, this is such a reoccurring theme

00:25:59.230 --> 00:26:00.670
at the moment. In the book that I wrote last

00:26:00.670 --> 00:26:04.109
year, the underlying theme is multigenerational

00:26:04.109 --> 00:26:07.599
trauma. What we see in that whole hurt people,

00:26:07.660 --> 00:26:09.279
hurt people, you know, and I think heal people,

00:26:09.339 --> 00:26:12.200
heal people is another phrase that shows the

00:26:12.200 --> 00:26:14.200
hope of actually, you know, once you go through

00:26:14.200 --> 00:26:16.579
that crucible and do your own healing, then there'll

00:26:16.579 --> 00:26:18.859
be a ripple effect on the positive side instead.

00:26:18.980 --> 00:26:21.539
But you just don't hear this conversation. You

00:26:21.539 --> 00:26:24.319
hear the, you know, the knee jerk reaction to

00:26:24.319 --> 00:26:26.839
the violence or the addiction or the homelessness

00:26:26.839 --> 00:26:30.440
or whatever it is. everyone really acknowledges

00:26:30.440 --> 00:26:32.880
that there's a deep -seated pain behind all this

00:26:32.880 --> 00:26:36.000
but if we just leave it unaddressed then as you

00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:38.140
just mentioned it just goes on to the next generation

00:26:38.140 --> 00:26:42.859
it was interesting when i tested uh before i

00:26:42.859 --> 00:26:45.099
tested for detective i tested for our narc unit

00:26:45.099 --> 00:26:47.940
and uh during the interview process they were

00:26:47.940 --> 00:26:50.980
asking me like what i what the best avenue to

00:26:50.980 --> 00:26:54.220
take to kind of curb the drug problem and i went

00:26:54.220 --> 00:27:00.049
on this long you know a monologue about how we

00:27:00.049 --> 00:27:02.289
need to stop childhood trauma and we need to

00:27:02.289 --> 00:27:05.289
really focus on kids. And I was basically told,

00:27:05.369 --> 00:27:08.829
go be an SRO. And that was almost a moment when

00:27:08.829 --> 00:27:12.849
I realized how important SROs were. Because the

00:27:12.849 --> 00:27:15.210
NARC unit just wants to get the dope off the

00:27:15.210 --> 00:27:18.250
streets, but it doesn't solve the root problem.

00:27:18.630 --> 00:27:20.509
And I'm not knocking NARC units. They do a great

00:27:20.509 --> 00:27:24.539
job. It's just the way that it's built out. And

00:27:24.539 --> 00:27:28.079
if we're not dealing with our children and allowing

00:27:28.079 --> 00:27:30.119
them or helping them to heal or getting them

00:27:30.119 --> 00:27:32.619
out of environments that's going to cause them

00:27:32.619 --> 00:27:35.759
to be hurt adults, then we're just going to continue

00:27:35.759 --> 00:27:37.539
to see the same behavior over and over again.

00:27:38.400 --> 00:27:40.420
Absolutely. It's funny. I was just talking to

00:27:40.420 --> 00:27:43.539
a friend of mine right before we sat down. And

00:27:43.539 --> 00:27:45.859
I was saying, you know, when I was wearing a

00:27:45.859 --> 00:27:49.279
firefighters union uniform, I was reactive. You

00:27:49.279 --> 00:27:51.099
know, you wait until you're having your worst

00:27:51.099 --> 00:27:53.039
day and then you hit three numbers on a phone

00:27:53.039 --> 00:27:55.519
and we show up. And we mitigate your worst day.

00:27:55.599 --> 00:27:57.579
And a lot of those, you know, it could be a mental

00:27:57.579 --> 00:27:59.380
health issue. It could be, you know, obesity

00:27:59.380 --> 00:28:01.599
issue, whatever it is. But we're there at the

00:28:01.599 --> 00:28:04.539
end, hopefully to pull you from, you know, a

00:28:04.539 --> 00:28:07.700
life ending event. What I do now is proactive.

00:28:08.440 --> 00:28:10.299
And I would argue I've saved, you know, it's

00:28:10.299 --> 00:28:13.140
not I, this community that we've built has saved

00:28:13.140 --> 00:28:17.039
so many lives compared to responding to one call

00:28:17.039 --> 00:28:19.500
on, you know, on the end, on that reactive element.

00:28:19.799 --> 00:28:21.839
But this is what we see over and over again,

00:28:21.920 --> 00:28:24.859
this reactive conversations rather than let's

00:28:24.859 --> 00:28:27.240
reverse engineer to what is the root of this

00:28:27.240 --> 00:28:30.380
problem and not even, you know. today's child's

00:28:30.380 --> 00:28:32.539
childhood, but their parents' childhood, their

00:28:32.539 --> 00:28:35.059
grandparents' childhood, like you alluded to,

00:28:35.200 --> 00:28:38.200
so we can see these dominoes and now actually

00:28:38.200 --> 00:28:41.359
proactively stop the next one from falling rather

00:28:41.359 --> 00:28:44.099
than we'll say, you know, like in our professions,

00:28:44.140 --> 00:28:45.880
a lot of the mental health conversation is, oh,

00:28:45.900 --> 00:28:48.039
if you're hurting, I'm here for you. Here's a

00:28:48.039 --> 00:28:49.900
number on the pin board. Just call it if you're

00:28:49.900 --> 00:28:53.079
struggling. Well, that's reactive. That's at

00:28:53.079 --> 00:28:55.700
the end. We need to get at the very beginning,

00:28:55.880 --> 00:28:58.420
you know, even at the front door of our professions,

00:28:58.460 --> 00:29:01.180
acknowledging that a lot of us do have some of

00:29:01.180 --> 00:29:03.400
this trauma in our early life and saying, that's

00:29:03.400 --> 00:29:05.900
great. That's why you're here. That's why you

00:29:05.900 --> 00:29:08.339
put your hand up when the other, you know, whatever

00:29:08.339 --> 00:29:11.619
percent of the population didn't. So let's acknowledge

00:29:11.619 --> 00:29:14.460
that. Let's try and work through anything that's

00:29:14.460 --> 00:29:16.720
left unaddressed or has been buried. And you

00:29:16.720 --> 00:29:18.980
will be an even better police officer then. And

00:29:18.980 --> 00:29:20.700
we need to do the same thing in the rest of the

00:29:20.700 --> 00:29:25.950
community too. Yeah. And for whatever reason,

00:29:26.029 --> 00:29:28.150
I'm not really sure why we're not proactive.

00:29:28.410 --> 00:29:30.470
And then we have the ACE score. Like we know,

00:29:30.470 --> 00:29:34.569
we know the ramifications of not dealing with

00:29:34.569 --> 00:29:37.849
childhood traumas and how it affects us. You

00:29:37.849 --> 00:29:41.190
know, we talked about my dad briefly and I didn't

00:29:41.190 --> 00:29:43.970
really understand how much that affected me until

00:29:43.970 --> 00:29:47.089
I started working on a, there's a group project

00:29:47.089 --> 00:29:50.509
book I'm working on with a bunch of guys with.

00:29:51.289 --> 00:29:53.390
And I was writing that I've never wrote that

00:29:53.390 --> 00:29:55.829
story down, you know, like the day it happened

00:29:55.829 --> 00:29:58.150
and like the aftermath. And like, I realized

00:29:58.150 --> 00:30:00.650
like it was like 34 years before I even thought

00:30:00.650 --> 00:30:06.130
about the day that it happened. And and then

00:30:06.130 --> 00:30:08.230
it's like it's like it was like all these pieces

00:30:08.230 --> 00:30:10.430
just started to come together. Like as I'm writing

00:30:10.430 --> 00:30:13.029
this story, I'm like, oh, my God, like that's

00:30:13.029 --> 00:30:15.190
why I'm like this or that's why this is like

00:30:15.190 --> 00:30:17.589
this. And, you know, the biggest example I can

00:30:17.589 --> 00:30:21.579
give you is. My wife and I had split up for a

00:30:21.579 --> 00:30:24.240
little while because we had a point of contention

00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:26.859
where like she wanted kids and I didn't. And

00:30:26.859 --> 00:30:29.980
I really didn't have a good reason for it. And

00:30:29.980 --> 00:30:32.019
then I read this book called The Body Keeps Score.

00:30:32.519 --> 00:30:35.279
And then I started reflecting on, you know, my

00:30:35.279 --> 00:30:38.380
childhood and, you know, some of the things that

00:30:38.380 --> 00:30:41.380
I, you know, and it really what that boiled down

00:30:41.380 --> 00:30:46.309
to was my dad passed away when I was young. I

00:30:46.309 --> 00:30:48.130
didn't want to have kids because I never wanted

00:30:48.130 --> 00:30:51.089
my child to potentially go through that type

00:30:51.089 --> 00:30:55.190
of situation. And then once I was able to overcome

00:30:55.190 --> 00:30:58.269
it, we now have, you know, we have a beautiful

00:30:58.269 --> 00:31:00.730
five -year -old little girl. We just found out

00:31:00.730 --> 00:31:02.349
last week that we have another one on the way.

00:31:02.509 --> 00:31:07.150
So we're super excited about that. And I guess,

00:31:07.150 --> 00:31:08.690
you know, we told some family, but I guess now

00:31:08.690 --> 00:31:12.309
the whole world's going to know. Well, I mean,

00:31:12.309 --> 00:31:15.029
that's just, you know. That nails it, though.

00:31:15.089 --> 00:31:17.809
And I think even a parallel story I heard from

00:31:17.809 --> 00:31:19.849
Johan Hari a while ago, if you look at obesity,

00:31:20.269 --> 00:31:22.509
there was a study where, and I'll keep this very

00:31:22.509 --> 00:31:24.029
brief, I've told it on here before, but they

00:31:24.029 --> 00:31:28.150
did a kind of like an IV weight loss plan. So

00:31:28.150 --> 00:31:31.329
they gave all these patients IV nutrition. And

00:31:31.329 --> 00:31:33.089
so they weren't actually eating anything. I think,

00:31:33.089 --> 00:31:34.490
of course, I'm sure they were drinking water

00:31:34.490 --> 00:31:36.750
and some other things, but it was minimal caloric

00:31:36.750 --> 00:31:40.430
intake. And this one rock star of the program

00:31:40.430 --> 00:31:43.589
lost a huge amount of weight. But one day she

00:31:43.589 --> 00:31:46.309
just, you know, went dark. She ghosted them.

00:31:46.609 --> 00:31:49.630
And they finally tracked her down. And one of

00:31:49.630 --> 00:31:52.269
the people in the study kind of asked her, like,

00:31:52.269 --> 00:31:53.549
you know, what was going on? And she and she,

00:31:53.549 --> 00:31:55.730
you know, gone back off the rails and was eating

00:31:55.730 --> 00:31:57.369
all kinds of fast food and gained a bunch of

00:31:57.369 --> 00:32:00.089
weight. And they were able to kind of sit down

00:32:00.089 --> 00:32:02.109
with her and say, you know, try and kind of figure

00:32:02.109 --> 00:32:04.809
out what was going on. And one of them, one of

00:32:04.809 --> 00:32:08.650
the more astute ones said. when exactly did you

00:32:08.650 --> 00:32:10.809
start eating to the level that you eat now? And

00:32:10.809 --> 00:32:13.670
she said, you know, when I was 10. And he said,

00:32:13.730 --> 00:32:16.309
was there any traumatic event that happened when

00:32:16.309 --> 00:32:18.349
you were 10? And she said, yeah, when my grandfather

00:32:18.349 --> 00:32:22.250
molested me. And so even from the obesity point

00:32:22.250 --> 00:32:25.109
of view, with that particular case, when they

00:32:25.109 --> 00:32:27.509
realized, oh, she doesn't want to be attractive

00:32:27.509 --> 00:32:30.490
because when she was attractive, people preyed

00:32:30.490 --> 00:32:33.029
upon her. Well, there you have someone who, you

00:32:33.029 --> 00:32:35.740
know. telling her they need to lose weight actually

00:32:35.740 --> 00:32:37.859
is going against the psychology. So until she'd

00:32:37.859 --> 00:32:40.460
addressed that issue and work through it, she

00:32:40.460 --> 00:32:42.819
was going to eat. So she wasn't attractive to

00:32:42.819 --> 00:32:45.119
the opposite sex. So she wouldn't be a victim

00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:48.359
of a predator. So that mental side is amazing.

00:32:48.480 --> 00:32:50.799
How many times that factors into things that

00:32:50.799 --> 00:32:53.119
we would think were completely disconnected.

00:32:54.759 --> 00:32:57.460
Yeah. And I think everything is connected and,

00:32:57.500 --> 00:33:00.299
you know, which is why in the first responder

00:33:00.299 --> 00:33:03.529
community, like a holistic approach is, is, really

00:33:03.529 --> 00:33:05.849
the only way to go because if not we're just

00:33:05.849 --> 00:33:09.609
treating you know we're we're treating the gunshot

00:33:09.609 --> 00:33:11.849
and we're not really treating like why we got

00:33:11.849 --> 00:33:14.170
into a you know why we were there for a gunfight

00:33:14.170 --> 00:34:59.989
yeah 100 I can't say enough about our SVU unit

00:34:59.989 --> 00:35:08.369
as well. They did such a great job because we

00:35:08.369 --> 00:35:10.670
had to kind of pigeonhole ourselves into one

00:35:10.670 --> 00:35:13.869
thing, right? Like we all got really good at

00:35:13.869 --> 00:35:16.429
investigating domestic violence, or we got really

00:35:16.429 --> 00:35:19.210
good at investigating, you know, sex crimes.

00:35:19.650 --> 00:35:21.929
And, you know, the specialty units are great

00:35:21.929 --> 00:35:24.309
because you're just, you're so narrow. But when

00:35:24.309 --> 00:35:26.639
you're on patrol, you're like man i gotta know

00:35:26.639 --> 00:35:30.019
everything right like i gotta know traffic laws

00:35:30.019 --> 00:35:34.000
and dv laws and the you know hand -to -hand transactions

00:35:34.000 --> 00:35:36.679
this and they like and it's it can be very overwhelming

00:35:36.679 --> 00:35:39.179
for a young officer and if you don't have good

00:35:39.179 --> 00:35:42.840
solid mentors uh when you're coming off of fto

00:35:42.840 --> 00:35:46.420
or having good ftos you're gonna really struggle

00:35:46.420 --> 00:35:49.719
and have a difficult time um i had i felt like

00:35:49.719 --> 00:35:53.280
i got lucky in my career um i had four ftos i

00:35:53.280 --> 00:35:56.039
think two of them are really solid uh two of

00:35:56.039 --> 00:35:58.739
them maybe not so much and then the squad that

00:35:58.739 --> 00:36:02.500
i got on when i got off um was really squared

00:36:02.500 --> 00:36:07.119
away and i was really able to utilize uh utilize

00:36:07.119 --> 00:36:11.599
their knowledge and experience uh because you

00:36:11.599 --> 00:36:13.539
know they they were the officer that we were

00:36:13.539 --> 00:36:15.980
talking that we're talking about the the person

00:36:15.980 --> 00:36:18.619
that wants to learn that wants to be better that

00:36:18.619 --> 00:36:20.780
wants well hell that wants their backup to know

00:36:20.780 --> 00:36:24.630
what the hell they're doing What about fitness

00:36:24.630 --> 00:36:29.250
standards or, you know, just the kind of culture

00:36:29.250 --> 00:36:32.590
of physical training in your department? What

00:36:32.590 --> 00:36:36.030
did you witness over those few years? I think

00:36:36.030 --> 00:36:38.090
we were pretty much on par with every department.

00:36:38.269 --> 00:36:41.150
You have your handful, you have your percentage

00:36:41.150 --> 00:36:45.230
of guys and girls that were fit, and then people

00:36:45.230 --> 00:36:47.849
that weren't going to do anything. And it's just

00:36:47.849 --> 00:36:53.219
kind of the way it was. It was kind of right

00:36:53.219 --> 00:36:55.860
when I got onto our SWAT team, my commander found

00:36:55.860 --> 00:36:58.900
out that I was an ultra runner and asked me to

00:36:58.900 --> 00:37:00.400
go get a strength and conditioning certification

00:37:00.400 --> 00:37:04.219
because he had just taken over SWAT. He wanted

00:37:04.219 --> 00:37:06.840
to see us elevate the standard. He wanted to

00:37:06.840 --> 00:37:08.920
elevate the standard for new guys coming in and

00:37:08.920 --> 00:37:13.659
really revamp the whole process. So, you know,

00:37:13.659 --> 00:37:15.820
I went and got certified as a strength and conditioning

00:37:15.820 --> 00:37:19.599
coach and I started running workouts. We revamped

00:37:19.599 --> 00:37:21.969
the testing process. You know, we did all these

00:37:21.969 --> 00:37:24.789
things. And then my chief at the time, who is

00:37:24.789 --> 00:37:26.949
probably, you know, one of the best chiefs that

00:37:26.949 --> 00:37:31.010
I had worked for. She was like, hey, you should

00:37:31.010 --> 00:37:33.150
start doing some wellness stuff for our agency

00:37:33.150 --> 00:37:36.010
because, you know, we really need this. She saw,

00:37:36.010 --> 00:37:40.369
you know, she saw the difference between an officer

00:37:40.369 --> 00:37:42.570
who didn't train the officer or did not, you

00:37:42.570 --> 00:37:45.809
know, did or did not train. And she wanted to

00:37:45.809 --> 00:37:49.489
make sure that she was, you know, giving. Giving

00:37:49.489 --> 00:37:52.230
the right tools to these officers. So we started

00:37:52.230 --> 00:37:56.030
running some wellness stuff at the agency. And

00:37:56.030 --> 00:37:58.789
as kind of like you would expect, there were

00:37:58.789 --> 00:38:00.929
some people that were very much on board, but

00:38:00.929 --> 00:38:03.090
they were already doing, you know, they already

00:38:03.090 --> 00:38:04.869
had a gym routine or they were already trying

00:38:04.869 --> 00:38:07.150
to do this. And then you had a good percentage

00:38:07.150 --> 00:38:10.809
that just had wanted nothing to do with it. Would

00:38:10.809 --> 00:38:12.170
kind of, you know, I would get my they would

00:38:12.170 --> 00:38:14.269
bust my balls all the time about the emails I

00:38:14.269 --> 00:38:17.949
would send out. And, you know. really just had

00:38:17.949 --> 00:38:20.949
no interest in improving physically or mentally

00:38:20.949 --> 00:38:25.989
when I first came into the fire service obviously

00:38:25.989 --> 00:38:28.869
I took the you know the training for fire academy

00:38:28.869 --> 00:38:31.369
very seriously I'd been an athlete you know prior

00:38:31.369 --> 00:38:34.030
to that martial artist so it just continued like

00:38:34.030 --> 00:38:36.969
you said and it was only I think the last 10

00:38:36.969 --> 00:38:39.929
years or so where I really looked back and reflected

00:38:39.929 --> 00:38:42.150
and like why do we not have fitness standards

00:38:42.889 --> 00:38:45.769
in these professions where lives truly are at

00:38:45.769 --> 00:38:48.309
stake. And then you start, you know, in this

00:38:48.309 --> 00:38:50.570
case, with the podcast, talking to all these,

00:38:50.570 --> 00:38:52.289
you know, special forces, special operators.

00:38:52.849 --> 00:38:54.929
And, you know, again, it's self -selection. If

00:38:54.929 --> 00:38:57.090
you drop below that line, you're just not a SEAL

00:38:57.090 --> 00:38:59.230
anymore. You're not a PJ anymore. Then I talked

00:38:59.230 --> 00:39:01.030
to the ocean lifeguards and I was a lifeguard

00:39:01.030 --> 00:39:03.510
myself, not on the ocean, but in open water and

00:39:03.510 --> 00:39:06.309
pools. And we have these recertifications. And

00:39:06.309 --> 00:39:08.030
if you don't pass, then you're not a lifeguard

00:39:08.030 --> 00:39:11.769
anymore. I don't understand, you know, for so

00:39:11.769 --> 00:39:15.050
many decades now how our professions have avoided

00:39:15.050 --> 00:39:19.110
setting a standard when especially in fire, that

00:39:19.110 --> 00:39:21.610
standard is imprinted at the front door. Like

00:39:21.610 --> 00:39:23.130
if you're not in good shape, you're not going

00:39:23.130 --> 00:39:25.889
to pass a good fire academy. So to then move

00:39:25.889 --> 00:39:27.929
through, you know, pass that and then walk forward

00:39:27.929 --> 00:39:29.989
and say, it's not fair to hold me to the standard.

00:39:30.730 --> 00:39:32.949
It's called minimum standards in Florida. The

00:39:32.949 --> 00:39:35.309
shittest you should ever be is when you come

00:39:35.309 --> 00:39:38.389
out of the academy, you know. And yet now you

00:39:38.389 --> 00:39:41.829
have unions and firefighters themselves or administrators

00:39:41.829 --> 00:39:44.230
saying, oh, it's not fair. We can't do it. It's

00:39:44.230 --> 00:39:46.610
like, what the fuck are you talking about? Literally,

00:39:47.469 --> 00:39:49.690
people die if we're out of shape, point blank.

00:39:49.809 --> 00:39:51.929
Us, our partners or the people that we serve

00:39:51.929 --> 00:39:54.570
will die if we cannot do the thing that we're

00:39:54.570 --> 00:39:57.349
paid to do. So taking the gloves off a little

00:39:57.349 --> 00:40:00.289
bit, what is your perspective on holding a standard

00:40:00.289 --> 00:40:04.239
in law enforcement? Um, I think it's absolute

00:40:04.239 --> 00:40:06.199
garbage. We don't have standards. If you want

00:40:06.199 --> 00:40:08.960
to take the gloves off, uh, it is, it is life

00:40:08.960 --> 00:40:11.440
or death for us. And whether it's our partner

00:40:11.440 --> 00:40:15.239
ourselves or the community we serve, um, you

00:40:15.239 --> 00:40:17.199
know, I'm not asking everybody to be a professional

00:40:17.199 --> 00:40:19.860
athlete. Uh, I'm not asking everybody to be a

00:40:19.860 --> 00:40:23.539
PJ or a seal or a ranger. Uh, but I am asking

00:40:23.539 --> 00:40:26.579
everybody to, I think our standard was like 15

00:40:26.579 --> 00:40:29.619
minute mile and a half. You know, it's not that

00:40:29.619 --> 00:40:32.610
hard. The minimum standard is really not that

00:40:32.610 --> 00:40:35.929
hard. And if you have difficulty running a 15

00:40:35.929 --> 00:40:37.769
-minute mile and a half, I think that's an issue.

00:40:40.550 --> 00:40:42.750
And, you know, I get this pushback all the time.

00:40:42.829 --> 00:40:44.730
They're like, well, when am I ever going to need

00:40:44.730 --> 00:40:46.489
to run a mile and a half? And I'm like, that's

00:40:46.489 --> 00:40:49.449
not the point of the mile and a half run. The

00:40:49.449 --> 00:40:51.590
point of the mile and a half run is to see if

00:40:51.590 --> 00:40:57.340
your cardiovascular system is fit. from a training

00:40:57.340 --> 00:41:00.420
standpoint yes like i i would never train an

00:41:00.420 --> 00:41:03.539
officer like i would train myself to run a hundred

00:41:03.539 --> 00:41:07.320
mile or 100k race like it just doesn't correlate

00:41:07.320 --> 00:41:10.679
but what you do probably need to more closely

00:41:10.679 --> 00:41:13.239
train like a football player where you're training

00:41:13.239 --> 00:41:16.139
a little bit you know some speed power strength

00:41:16.139 --> 00:41:19.639
but sometimes we do get into foot pursuits sometimes

00:41:19.639 --> 00:41:23.400
we do have to do something that that it requires

00:41:23.400 --> 00:41:26.610
endurance So while, yes, I don't need you to

00:41:26.610 --> 00:41:29.409
run 10 miles or a half marathon or whatever it

00:41:29.409 --> 00:41:31.909
is, I think it's pretty reasonable that you can

00:41:31.909 --> 00:41:35.789
do a 30 minute run without stopping. I think

00:41:35.789 --> 00:41:37.590
it's reasonable that you can bench press your

00:41:37.590 --> 00:41:40.550
own body weight and that you can squat and that

00:41:40.550 --> 00:41:42.570
you can do a dummy drag and you can do a pull

00:41:42.570 --> 00:41:44.869
up. And I think these are all pretty reasonable

00:41:44.869 --> 00:41:49.630
things that we were asking of people. I understand.

00:41:49.670 --> 00:41:52.210
I had a long conversation with one of my old

00:41:52.210 --> 00:41:55.050
commanders who is actually very progressive in

00:41:55.050 --> 00:42:00.130
this fitness space and in the in the whole officer

00:42:00.130 --> 00:42:02.750
wellness space. Like they're they're doing quite

00:42:02.750 --> 00:42:05.489
a bit for their agency because she sees the value.

00:42:05.590 --> 00:42:10.650
But that's another story. We need to make sure

00:42:10.650 --> 00:42:12.889
that we talk. We talked about the why. Like,

00:42:12.909 --> 00:42:15.110
why can't we do this? Why can't we make this

00:42:15.110 --> 00:42:18.900
standard? And what it comes down to is money.

00:42:19.139 --> 00:42:21.780
It's overtime. You know, they're like, well,

00:42:21.820 --> 00:42:23.739
if you're going to require it, then you got to

00:42:23.739 --> 00:42:26.579
pay people to do it. And then what's constituted

00:42:26.579 --> 00:42:29.300
as physical activity? You know, there are some

00:42:29.300 --> 00:42:32.400
agencies that tried this and they were, oh, well,

00:42:32.519 --> 00:42:35.840
my weekly softball is my physical fitness training.

00:42:36.079 --> 00:42:38.400
Well, I hurt my knee. So now it's a workman's

00:42:38.400 --> 00:42:41.769
comp thing. And it's really just. people taking

00:42:41.769 --> 00:42:45.489
advantage of what's put in place is why we can't

00:42:45.489 --> 00:42:50.050
have physical fitness standards. And I could

00:42:50.050 --> 00:42:53.730
be wrong on this, but I'm pretty sure there was

00:42:53.730 --> 00:42:57.769
a Supreme Court case. I believe it was a district

00:42:57.769 --> 00:42:59.349
case. It might have been like the Ninth Circuit

00:42:59.349 --> 00:43:01.530
or the Sixth Circuit. I can't remember. That

00:43:01.530 --> 00:43:03.929
rule that we can't have standards. I think an

00:43:03.929 --> 00:43:06.530
officer sued for being fired. I believe he was

00:43:06.530 --> 00:43:11.610
out of Denver, if I'm not mistaken. It's the

00:43:11.610 --> 00:43:13.769
people that are really pushing back and causing

00:43:13.769 --> 00:43:17.570
major money issues for agencies that are causing

00:43:17.570 --> 00:43:20.530
us not to have a standard. Well, about 10 years

00:43:20.530 --> 00:43:23.550
ago, we had a neighboring agency. They had an

00:43:23.550 --> 00:43:25.369
officer have a heart attack during a foot pursuit.

00:43:27.250 --> 00:43:33.250
Now I have to tend to an officer down and our

00:43:33.250 --> 00:43:34.929
bad guy gets away. Like, are you kidding me?

00:43:35.989 --> 00:43:38.530
And it's very tragic. Don't get me wrong. I'm

00:43:38.530 --> 00:43:43.230
not trying to. to take that away from the tragedy

00:43:43.230 --> 00:43:46.190
of the whole situation, but it's preventable.

00:43:46.610 --> 00:43:50.630
You know, there, there's probably a lot of instances

00:43:50.630 --> 00:43:52.610
around the country where officers are shot and

00:43:52.610 --> 00:43:55.389
killed that could not have been prevented. They

00:43:55.389 --> 00:43:58.389
got ambushed there. You know, they tactically

00:43:58.389 --> 00:44:00.730
sound the lucky bullet caught them, whatever

00:44:00.730 --> 00:44:04.750
it is, we can't stop every death, but guess what?

00:44:04.789 --> 00:44:07.340
I can make your heart stronger. I can make your

00:44:07.340 --> 00:44:09.320
knees and your back and your shoulders stronger

00:44:09.320 --> 00:44:12.000
so you don't get injured and then you're on light

00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:15.420
duty for six months or a year for something that

00:44:15.420 --> 00:44:17.480
could have easily been prevented or you could

00:44:17.480 --> 00:44:20.599
have come back faster. I spoke with a fire chief

00:44:20.599 --> 00:44:24.780
at a major agency recently. They have over 200

00:44:24.780 --> 00:44:29.079
firefighters on light duty. That's an insane

00:44:29.079 --> 00:44:33.510
number. And it's because we're not proactive

00:44:33.510 --> 00:44:36.349
in that pursuit. We're not training our bodies

00:44:36.349 --> 00:44:38.309
physically to keep up with the demand of the

00:44:38.309 --> 00:44:41.829
job. You know, I spoke with an officer who had

00:44:41.829 --> 00:44:46.010
got a knee injury who was fairly overweight,

00:44:46.269 --> 00:44:48.110
and I was just checking up on him. You know,

00:44:48.150 --> 00:44:49.610
I ran into him in the hallway one day, and I

00:44:49.610 --> 00:44:52.030
said, hey, man, how's the knee doing? He said,

00:44:52.070 --> 00:44:55.050
oh, I still got one good fight left in me. And

00:44:55.050 --> 00:44:56.670
I'm looking at him. I was like, man, you can

00:44:56.670 --> 00:45:00.530
barely walk. Like, is that really your thought

00:45:00.530 --> 00:45:03.429
process? Is that really what's going on in your

00:45:03.429 --> 00:45:05.630
head? Is your ego so big to think that you can

00:45:05.630 --> 00:45:09.650
still handle a really bad situation when you

00:45:09.650 --> 00:45:12.869
can barely walk? And I think that's kind of where

00:45:12.869 --> 00:45:14.969
we're at with a lot of people. They think they

00:45:14.969 --> 00:45:18.250
can handle the situation. And, you know, the

00:45:18.250 --> 00:45:21.190
YouTube videos, again, are proving that you can't.

00:45:21.190 --> 00:45:24.369
We don't rise to that level of a challenge. We

00:45:24.369 --> 00:45:27.659
fall to our training. 100%. It's funny when you

00:45:27.659 --> 00:45:29.780
said about the tragedy, this is the point, is

00:45:29.780 --> 00:45:32.239
that there is no downside to this conversation.

00:45:32.860 --> 00:45:37.300
Because chances are, if that officer in question,

00:45:37.400 --> 00:45:41.800
for example, had eaten well and had a strength

00:45:41.800 --> 00:45:43.559
and conditioning program because they were held

00:45:43.559 --> 00:45:46.159
to a standard, they wouldn't have had that heart

00:45:46.159 --> 00:45:48.659
attack. So this is what drives me crazy, is that

00:45:48.659 --> 00:45:50.800
when you're opposing a fitness standard, you're

00:45:50.800 --> 00:45:52.900
saying, I'm okay with our police officers and

00:45:52.900 --> 00:45:55.119
firefighters dying earlier. That's what you're

00:45:55.119 --> 00:45:57.869
saying. Like we don't want them to be healthy.

00:45:58.190 --> 00:46:01.070
And then, you know, if you put it into the actual

00:46:01.070 --> 00:46:04.389
application on the street, I think one good example

00:46:04.389 --> 00:46:07.670
for your community is you've got someone with

00:46:07.670 --> 00:46:10.570
a knife, as we've seen so many times, and they're

00:46:10.570 --> 00:46:13.730
running towards a kindergarten. And you are the

00:46:13.730 --> 00:46:16.090
person on foot that has to stop them. And like

00:46:16.090 --> 00:46:18.489
we see on those YouTube videos, you gas out.

00:46:18.769 --> 00:46:20.929
And you now got your hands on your knees and

00:46:20.929 --> 00:46:22.909
you're huffing and puffing. And that person just

00:46:22.909 --> 00:46:25.519
goes and dices up a bunch of children. Is that

00:46:25.519 --> 00:46:29.119
acceptable? Is the counter to that, oh, but it's

00:46:29.119 --> 00:46:31.500
not fair because of fitness standards. No, it's

00:46:31.500 --> 00:46:33.599
not. Sorry, you don't get to have those fucking

00:46:33.599 --> 00:46:37.059
feelings. Someone said on the show recently,

00:46:37.199 --> 00:46:41.019
and it really, really stuck with me, people are

00:46:41.019 --> 00:46:45.320
afraid of getting tired. So if you think about

00:46:45.320 --> 00:46:47.000
that, if you are opposing a fitness standard,

00:46:47.039 --> 00:46:49.000
and I talk about the environment all the time.

00:46:49.289 --> 00:46:51.769
So, yes, we are working in a profession where

00:46:51.769 --> 00:46:54.150
we are set up for failure and a lot of areas,

00:46:54.250 --> 00:46:55.949
sleep deprivation and all the things that come

00:46:55.949 --> 00:46:58.150
with it, the hormonal disruption. So that is

00:46:58.150 --> 00:47:00.309
an element that has to be addressed by the employer.

00:47:00.630 --> 00:47:03.750
But by the individual, if you're saying that

00:47:03.750 --> 00:47:06.269
working out is hard, you are not the fucking

00:47:06.269 --> 00:47:08.309
person that I want next to me on a hose line

00:47:08.309 --> 00:47:10.849
or, you know, in a gunfight or whatever the thing,

00:47:10.889 --> 00:47:13.150
because you're a coward. And it sounds really

00:47:13.150 --> 00:47:15.769
fucking harsh, but you're saying that you don't

00:47:15.769 --> 00:47:18.949
want to be tired. You don't want to. Be disciplined

00:47:18.949 --> 00:47:21.269
with what you eat. Are you the right kind of

00:47:21.269 --> 00:47:24.789
person to be on this kind of a team? So again,

00:47:24.889 --> 00:47:27.389
not picking just on the individual, but as I

00:47:27.389 --> 00:47:29.929
fight for a lot, changing the firefighter work

00:47:29.929 --> 00:47:31.730
week to give them rest and recovery that they

00:47:31.730 --> 00:47:34.789
need, but then simultaneously putting that standard

00:47:34.789 --> 00:47:37.409
up that should have been there before you and

00:47:37.409 --> 00:47:41.050
I ever even put the uniform on because it forges

00:47:41.050 --> 00:47:44.039
longevity in the responder. And as I said, if

00:47:44.039 --> 00:47:46.619
your family died because that responder hadn't

00:47:46.619 --> 00:47:49.940
trained, how would you feel? And would you accept

00:47:49.940 --> 00:47:52.300
their excuses? Yeah, but training is really hard

00:47:52.300 --> 00:47:54.159
and I don't want to be tired. It's not. It's

00:47:54.159 --> 00:47:56.960
bullshit. It's fucking bullshit. So I think we

00:47:56.960 --> 00:47:59.059
have to put our big boy pants on in these conversations

00:47:59.059 --> 00:48:01.960
and say, look, I don't know how the hell it happened

00:48:01.960 --> 00:48:04.340
up to this point, but enough is enough. These

00:48:04.340 --> 00:48:08.219
standards need to be put in place. Yeah, and

00:48:08.219 --> 00:48:11.219
it comes down to a self -respect thing, too.

00:48:13.359 --> 00:48:15.539
we had a situation where some neighborhood kids

00:48:15.539 --> 00:48:18.920
were like blowing up trash cans and, you know,

00:48:18.920 --> 00:48:21.000
two o 'clock in the morning, you hear the explosions

00:48:21.000 --> 00:48:24.719
go off. It was right. It was like, I think 2020.

00:48:24.860 --> 00:48:27.099
So, you know, a lot of, a lot of violence in

00:48:27.099 --> 00:48:29.719
all the major cities. And, you know, the first

00:48:29.719 --> 00:48:32.199
thing I did was grab my gun and, you know, I'm

00:48:32.199 --> 00:48:33.579
like, I'm gonna have to defend my family. I had

00:48:33.579 --> 00:48:35.539
no idea what was going on. It turns out again,

00:48:35.559 --> 00:48:38.440
it was just some dumb kids. So, you know, I'm

00:48:38.440 --> 00:48:40.800
outside. My neighbor's outside. We're both looking

00:48:40.800 --> 00:48:42.599
at each other. We got we got, you know, firearms

00:48:42.599 --> 00:48:44.960
in hand. And we're like, OK, well, we're going

00:48:44.960 --> 00:48:47.840
to call the police. And, you know, I'm I'm an

00:48:47.840 --> 00:48:50.619
active duty officer at the time. I have my detective

00:48:50.619 --> 00:48:54.300
cars parked on the side of my house. And I we

00:48:54.300 --> 00:48:57.139
call we call the local agency and the officer

00:48:57.139 --> 00:49:00.000
gets out and he could barely slide out from the

00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:02.340
steering wheel. I mean, he's probably north of

00:49:02.340 --> 00:49:05.809
300 pounds. And my first thought was like. what

00:49:05.809 --> 00:49:09.730
the hell are you gonna do what are you gonna

00:49:09.730 --> 00:49:13.010
do what do you there's nothing i i was like you

00:49:13.010 --> 00:49:16.070
know kind of dumbfounded like i was embarrassed

00:49:16.070 --> 00:49:18.309
i was embarrassed at that moment to be a police

00:49:18.309 --> 00:49:20.610
officer when he stepped out of his patrol car

00:49:22.349 --> 00:49:24.349
And the thing is, this is coming from compassion.

00:49:24.489 --> 00:49:26.110
I think people, you know, it's fat shaming and

00:49:26.110 --> 00:49:28.269
all that stuff. It's not. Firstly, if that individual

00:49:28.269 --> 00:49:30.469
wants to be an accountant, no one's going to

00:49:30.469 --> 00:49:32.730
have any issue with that whatsoever. You know,

00:49:32.750 --> 00:49:36.829
if they want to be a checkout clerk in the supermarket

00:49:36.829 --> 00:49:40.550
or any profession where lives are not at stake,

00:49:40.750 --> 00:49:43.750
it really isn't an issue. But it still goes down

00:49:43.750 --> 00:49:45.550
to the compassion that you want someone to have

00:49:45.550 --> 00:49:47.750
a healthy life, be able to play with their kids

00:49:47.750 --> 00:49:51.130
and have longevity. But in that particular situation.

00:49:51.900 --> 00:49:54.199
It's also compassion for the people that we serve.

00:49:54.300 --> 00:49:56.480
And that person responds, like I said, to the

00:49:56.480 --> 00:49:58.559
person running with a knife towards people that

00:49:58.559 --> 00:50:02.300
are unarmed. They are going to die like that.

00:50:02.360 --> 00:50:04.840
That knife wielding person will get to those

00:50:04.840 --> 00:50:07.539
people. And so this is why, you know, this is

00:50:07.539 --> 00:50:10.699
such a just it's mind blowing that there's so

00:50:10.699 --> 00:50:13.920
much resistance because no one loses. That officer

00:50:13.920 --> 00:50:16.809
loses weight. or transitions out of the profession,

00:50:17.030 --> 00:50:20.130
or is held at a crossroads, starts losing weight,

00:50:20.369 --> 00:50:23.769
starts enjoying his life more, is far more able,

00:50:23.889 --> 00:50:26.989
has a much longer lifespan, and is able to do

00:50:26.989 --> 00:50:30.469
his job and protect his community. So when there

00:50:30.469 --> 00:50:33.510
is no downside, and like you said, even the abuse

00:50:33.510 --> 00:50:35.349
of lawsuits and stuff, that just needs to be

00:50:35.349 --> 00:50:38.110
changed and shut down. And also, when hiring

00:50:38.110 --> 00:50:41.070
standards are kept high, the likelihood of you

00:50:41.070 --> 00:50:42.989
getting that kind of person in the first place

00:50:42.989 --> 00:50:45.809
are far diminished. But if, you know, you don't

00:50:45.809 --> 00:50:48.150
have standards and you're hiring 18 and a heartbeat,

00:50:48.289 --> 00:50:50.349
the chances of someone snipping in there that's

00:50:50.349 --> 00:50:53.309
just there for the paycheck, you know, is higher

00:50:53.309 --> 00:50:56.690
too. So I feel like, you know, the moment that

00:50:56.690 --> 00:50:59.030
we let those standards drop down or even never

00:50:59.030 --> 00:51:01.269
even appear in the first place, you know, you're

00:51:01.269 --> 00:51:03.530
just setting yourself up for failure in so many

00:51:03.530 --> 00:51:05.949
areas. And if you really care about your men

00:51:05.949 --> 00:51:09.150
and women in uniform, you would have a fitness

00:51:09.150 --> 00:51:11.150
standard because taking the delivery of service

00:51:11.150 --> 00:51:14.000
out for a moment. you are going to have a healthier,

00:51:14.079 --> 00:51:16.239
happier workforce if they're held to a fitness

00:51:16.239 --> 00:51:20.239
standard. It is just that simple. It is that

00:51:20.239 --> 00:51:22.500
simple. And I'd really like to see things change.

00:51:22.659 --> 00:51:25.079
And it's a big reason why I'm doing what I'm

00:51:25.079 --> 00:51:29.780
doing now, because we have to hold some sort

00:51:29.780 --> 00:51:32.539
of standard. And the fact that law enforcement

00:51:32.539 --> 00:51:35.739
is the, I believe the last statistic I saw was

00:51:35.739 --> 00:51:37.780
they're the most obese profession in the United

00:51:37.780 --> 00:51:41.250
States. And they should be at the very bottom

00:51:41.250 --> 00:51:45.570
of that list. You know, PD, fire, EMS, military,

00:51:45.690 --> 00:51:49.769
all within like, you know, the same group. We

00:51:49.769 --> 00:51:51.690
should be the most fit people in this country

00:51:51.690 --> 00:51:54.550
outside of professional athletes. But we're not.

00:51:54.869 --> 00:51:58.190
We're at the very opposite end of that. And that's

00:51:58.190 --> 00:52:02.449
a huge issue. Yeah, you're not going to be able

00:52:02.449 --> 00:52:06.250
to sprint. You're not going to be able to run

00:52:06.250 --> 00:52:09.389
after the guy who's hopping fences. you know

00:52:09.389 --> 00:52:12.630
what if you get into a tussle you know that's

00:52:12.630 --> 00:52:14.710
where that cardiovascular fitness comes in you

00:52:14.710 --> 00:52:18.170
know like because of my conditioning like when

00:52:18.170 --> 00:52:22.510
i started jujitsu i was able to to go a lot longer

00:52:22.510 --> 00:52:25.090
than the other white belts because i already

00:52:25.090 --> 00:52:28.090
had that physical base where i was able to withstand

00:52:28.090 --> 00:52:31.889
the stimulus and if we're not doing that then

00:52:31.889 --> 00:52:35.340
we're just putting ourselves at a liability And

00:52:35.340 --> 00:52:38.000
you mentioned like the hiring standards. I had

00:52:38.000 --> 00:52:41.559
a conversation with a captain at a police department

00:52:41.559 --> 00:52:44.500
who was just like, man, we just need bodies,

00:52:44.579 --> 00:52:47.380
right? Like we just need, we're so understaffed,

00:52:47.400 --> 00:52:50.460
we're this and that. And I'm like, well, would

00:52:50.460 --> 00:52:53.039
you rather go into battle with six special operations

00:52:53.039 --> 00:52:58.099
guys or 12, 50, 50 year old middle -aged fat

00:52:58.099 --> 00:53:02.199
guys? Or 12, 12, six special operations guys

00:53:02.199 --> 00:53:04.989
and 12, 50 year old. middle -aged out of shape

00:53:04.989 --> 00:53:07.630
you know guys and he's like well i'd rather go

00:53:07.630 --> 00:53:09.570
to battle with the special operations guys and

00:53:09.570 --> 00:53:14.670
i'm like yeah exactly so start we can really

00:53:14.670 --> 00:53:17.170
start building a culture from the hiring standpoint

00:53:17.170 --> 00:53:21.369
if we start making our hiring process more difficult

00:53:21.369 --> 00:53:24.690
because you know human beings are attracted to

00:53:24.690 --> 00:53:28.570
to exclusive company right like we all want to

00:53:28.570 --> 00:53:31.170
be it's the private jet it's the special operations

00:53:31.170 --> 00:53:34.000
units this like There's something to be said

00:53:34.000 --> 00:53:38.260
about those higher end units and the first responder

00:53:38.260 --> 00:53:40.460
professions need to start attracting that type

00:53:40.460 --> 00:53:43.780
of mentality where we want to be in this exclusive

00:53:43.780 --> 00:53:46.519
club, because guess what? Not everybody can be

00:53:46.519 --> 00:53:49.159
a police officer, a firefighter. And that's the

00:53:49.159 --> 00:53:51.980
mentality that we need. And we need to do it

00:53:51.980 --> 00:53:56.639
from the beginning, holding a standard. not only

00:53:56.639 --> 00:53:59.039
from a background standpoint, but a fitness standpoint,

00:53:59.199 --> 00:54:01.840
a mental fitness standpoint, we need to make

00:54:01.840 --> 00:54:05.840
our process harder, not easier. Yeah, I agree

00:54:05.840 --> 00:54:07.960
completely. And I've seen it literally with my

00:54:07.960 --> 00:54:10.500
own eyes. So I work for four fire departments,

00:54:10.739 --> 00:54:13.780
East and West Coast, arguably one of the best

00:54:13.780 --> 00:54:15.980
in the country and one of the worst. I won't

00:54:15.980 --> 00:54:19.500
say exactly which is which, but the Anaheim,

00:54:19.559 --> 00:54:22.460
the best one, you know, back when I tested in

00:54:22.460 --> 00:54:26.420
2005 for them. super, super competitive. And

00:54:26.420 --> 00:54:29.960
they were notorious for getting rid of any probie

00:54:29.960 --> 00:54:31.719
that didn't meet the bar. They weren't deliberately

00:54:31.719 --> 00:54:33.260
trying to get rid of people, but if you just

00:54:33.260 --> 00:54:35.840
couldn't climb to that bar, then it is what it

00:54:35.840 --> 00:54:38.480
is. And 25 % of each class, so the hired class

00:54:38.480 --> 00:54:40.059
with uniforms and bunker gear and everything,

00:54:40.179 --> 00:54:42.739
in that probationary year, if you didn't meet

00:54:42.739 --> 00:54:44.440
their standards and their testing requirements,

00:54:44.780 --> 00:54:47.320
you were let go. And I saw it. My classmates,

00:54:47.519 --> 00:54:51.119
we lost exactly 25 % that year too. But they,

00:54:51.179 --> 00:54:53.780
of all the agencies around, were notorious for

00:54:53.780 --> 00:54:56.110
never... losing anyone like as far as people

00:54:56.110 --> 00:54:57.750
leaving for unless it was you know like myself

00:54:57.750 --> 00:54:59.289
i went all the way back to florida obviously

00:54:59.289 --> 00:55:03.429
i couldn't work for them anymore um but conversely

00:55:03.429 --> 00:55:06.829
the worst place i've worked for that had comparatively

00:55:06.829 --> 00:55:10.389
in the area better pay better benefits no bar

00:55:10.389 --> 00:55:13.510
was like in a trench in the ground they could

00:55:13.510 --> 00:55:15.750
barely get anyone to test for them so if it was

00:55:15.750 --> 00:55:18.849
just about pensions and health care and salary

00:55:18.849 --> 00:55:21.269
they should have had a line around the building

00:55:21.869 --> 00:55:23.829
But it wasn't. It was the one that Anaheim was

00:55:23.829 --> 00:55:27.070
well paid and well supported. But they their

00:55:27.070 --> 00:55:29.369
bar was just super, super high. And if you were

00:55:29.369 --> 00:55:31.190
an Anaheim firefighter, there was an element

00:55:31.190 --> 00:55:34.250
of pride with that. And so I agree with you 100

00:55:34.250 --> 00:55:36.329
percent. The way that you improve recruitment

00:55:36.329 --> 00:55:38.710
isn't by lowering standards. It's putting them

00:55:38.710 --> 00:55:41.050
back where they're supposed to be. But asking

00:55:41.050 --> 00:55:44.090
yourself as a profession, what are we doing wrong

00:55:44.090 --> 00:55:46.289
that's dissuading these young people? And in

00:55:46.289 --> 00:55:49.110
my profession, the work week is the glaring thing,

00:55:49.250 --> 00:55:51.769
56 hours a week when everyone else is working

00:55:51.769 --> 00:55:55.150
40 and we're awake for 24 hours at a time. And

00:55:55.150 --> 00:55:57.210
then the recruitment crisis, now they're working

00:55:57.210 --> 00:56:00.349
80 hours because another 24 mandatory overtime.

00:56:00.929 --> 00:56:03.869
So you start fixing that and you show that you

00:56:03.869 --> 00:56:05.829
have a culture of fitness and you show that you

00:56:05.829 --> 00:56:09.190
have, you know, kind of zero barriers to access

00:56:09.190 --> 00:56:11.949
to mental health care and all these other areas.

00:56:12.190 --> 00:56:14.250
Now you're attracting young people because you're

00:56:14.250 --> 00:56:15.869
like, look. We're going to hold you to a high

00:56:15.869 --> 00:56:17.750
standard, but we're going to give you an environment

00:56:17.750 --> 00:56:20.190
that will allow you to get there. But that's

00:56:20.190 --> 00:56:22.449
not what we're seeing in a lot of agencies. And

00:56:22.449 --> 00:56:25.050
so rather than saying, oh, we'll just go to high

00:56:25.050 --> 00:56:27.630
schools and try and get 18 year olds. So as you

00:56:27.630 --> 00:56:30.349
said, we need bodies. It's the opposite. Look

00:56:30.349 --> 00:56:33.070
at yourself. Look at the mismanagement over the

00:56:33.070 --> 00:56:36.050
last 15, 20 years. How have you created this

00:56:36.050 --> 00:56:38.110
downward spiral where retention and recruitment

00:56:38.110 --> 00:56:41.489
is dire? Fix the elements and the other people

00:56:41.489 --> 00:56:43.900
will come back. Build it. They will come. 100%.

00:56:43.900 --> 00:56:47.840
If you show that you are a department that holds

00:56:47.840 --> 00:56:50.719
standards high and has a culture of training

00:56:50.719 --> 00:56:54.239
and fitness and camaraderie, you will have people

00:56:54.239 --> 00:56:55.940
lining up. And we've seen that locally. There

00:56:55.940 --> 00:56:58.380
are departments here that have changed in Florida,

00:56:58.460 --> 00:57:01.099
and they literally, their phones are ringing

00:57:01.099 --> 00:57:02.800
off the hooks now from people wanting to work

00:57:02.800 --> 00:57:05.119
for them. But that's not by lowering standards.

00:57:05.340 --> 00:57:07.179
In fact, some of them are literally talking about

00:57:07.179 --> 00:57:09.760
putting in mandatory fitness standards alongside

00:57:09.760 --> 00:57:12.199
with this, you know, improved working environment

00:57:12.199 --> 00:57:17.739
they've created. Yeah. And I understand. I understand

00:57:17.739 --> 00:57:19.679
where a lot of these command staffs are coming

00:57:19.679 --> 00:57:22.340
from. They're getting pressure from, you know,

00:57:22.340 --> 00:57:25.039
the city councils and the mayors and the communities.

00:57:25.119 --> 00:57:27.400
And they're like, you know, and they're and they're

00:57:27.400 --> 00:57:29.920
employees. Right. Like if they're have they're

00:57:29.920 --> 00:57:33.510
on a mandated overtime. You know, I know the

00:57:33.510 --> 00:57:36.070
driver for a lot of these command staff is like,

00:57:36.130 --> 00:57:38.409
hey, let's get bodies in here so we can relieve

00:57:38.409 --> 00:57:42.210
our guys from the mandatory overtime that's crushing

00:57:42.210 --> 00:57:44.730
them. So I don't think that a lot of these decisions

00:57:44.730 --> 00:57:47.630
are coming from a negative place. I think they're

00:57:47.630 --> 00:57:50.550
trying to solve a problem that's very complex.

00:57:51.289 --> 00:57:56.090
And it's not as easy as like, oh, you know, let's

00:57:56.090 --> 00:57:59.780
just hire, you know, raise our standards. And

00:57:59.780 --> 00:58:01.380
it's like, well, we got to raise our standards.

00:58:01.440 --> 00:58:04.239
Then we have to deal with the lower recruiting

00:58:04.239 --> 00:58:07.460
numbers because our standards are higher. So

00:58:07.460 --> 00:58:10.239
it's a patience game. And I know they're trying

00:58:10.239 --> 00:58:12.260
to relieve some of the tension that's already

00:58:12.260 --> 00:58:16.860
within the agency in the immediate, but it's

00:58:16.860 --> 00:58:22.309
only causing that issue to draw out longer. Then

00:58:22.309 --> 00:58:25.130
it is if they were able to take two steps backwards

00:58:25.130 --> 00:58:28.050
to take a bunch of step forwards. And, you know,

00:58:28.050 --> 00:58:29.769
people are worried about their jobs and they're

00:58:29.769 --> 00:58:31.469
worried about this. And, you know, they have

00:58:31.469 --> 00:58:33.929
a billion things on their plate. So I kind of

00:58:33.929 --> 00:58:39.329
understand it. But making that hard decision

00:58:39.329 --> 00:58:44.269
is going to be the only way forward. It is. And

00:58:44.269 --> 00:58:47.269
until we can get everybody collectively to start

00:58:47.269 --> 00:58:51.519
raising standards across the nation. You know,

00:58:51.519 --> 00:58:53.400
or maybe we can get a couple agencies that show

00:58:53.400 --> 00:58:55.840
that model, like to show, hey, this does work

00:58:55.840 --> 00:58:58.280
if we raise our standards. And like you said,

00:58:58.280 --> 00:59:00.840
you have, you know, Anaheim holds that standard.

00:59:02.880 --> 00:59:05.380
We need to start showcasing those agencies. It's

00:59:05.380 --> 00:59:08.400
like, hey, this is what they did and it's working.

00:59:08.880 --> 00:59:12.119
We need to do the same thing. Yeah, that's what's

00:59:12.119 --> 00:59:13.780
happening with the work week here in Florida,

00:59:13.880 --> 00:59:15.679
because there's a lot of fear, you know, but

00:59:15.679 --> 00:59:18.500
the thing is, you know, like you said. This has

00:59:18.500 --> 00:59:20.360
been going on for a long time. So just hiring

00:59:20.360 --> 00:59:23.199
18 year olds is not working. So have some humility

00:59:23.199 --> 00:59:26.079
and understand that your plan just it isn't it

00:59:26.079 --> 00:59:29.179
isn't going to work. So also understand, though,

00:59:29.199 --> 00:59:30.719
that when you put it back, there is going to

00:59:30.719 --> 00:59:33.139
be a lag because this is a 20 plus year problem

00:59:33.139 --> 00:59:34.840
that hasn't been addressed. It's not going to

00:59:34.840 --> 00:59:38.050
be fixed overnight. But. If you are one of the

00:59:38.050 --> 00:59:40.090
progressive thought leaders, you're actually

00:59:40.090 --> 00:59:42.210
going to be the one that gets all the good employees

00:59:42.210 --> 00:59:44.849
straight away. And then you have a middle group.

00:59:44.949 --> 00:59:46.570
And then the late adopters are really going to

00:59:46.570 --> 00:59:48.650
be scraping the barrel and waiting for new people

00:59:48.650 --> 00:59:50.230
to come through academies, which will happen

00:59:50.230 --> 00:59:52.150
because the profession itself will become more

00:59:52.150 --> 00:59:55.309
attractive once more. But I would argue, be a

00:59:55.309 --> 00:59:56.949
thought leader. And this is what's, you know,

00:59:56.969 --> 00:59:58.869
Pasco County and Gainesville and some of these

00:59:58.869 --> 01:00:01.289
other agencies here in Florida. And now what's

01:00:01.289 --> 01:00:02.869
happening is all these other places around the

01:00:02.869 --> 01:00:05.779
country are seeing them, like you said. having

01:00:05.779 --> 01:00:08.239
hope that, oh, we can actually make this move,

01:00:08.320 --> 01:00:10.199
and this department is kind of comparative to

01:00:10.199 --> 01:00:13.119
ours, why not? And then it goes back to exactly

01:00:13.119 --> 01:00:16.000
what you said, it's courage. Our leaders, whether

01:00:16.000 --> 01:00:18.400
you're a union leader or fire chief or a city

01:00:18.400 --> 01:00:21.559
or county council member, have to have the courage

01:00:21.559 --> 01:00:24.059
to say, we're going to need more money up front,

01:00:24.199 --> 01:00:26.860
but this is going to save money and lives, hand

01:00:26.860 --> 01:00:29.739
over fist, for years and years and years. But

01:00:29.739 --> 01:00:32.519
that's... That's the kind of courage that's not

01:00:32.519 --> 01:00:34.719
going to make you look good initially, but is

01:00:34.719 --> 01:00:37.340
for the benefit of the entire profession, which

01:00:37.340 --> 01:00:41.199
is far more important. Yeah, and I think a lot

01:00:41.199 --> 01:00:43.719
of the bean counters in these cities, that's

01:00:43.719 --> 01:00:45.119
all they're looking at. It's like, what's this

01:00:45.119 --> 01:00:50.679
going to cost us? And yes, there may be an upfront

01:00:50.679 --> 01:00:54.500
cost, but it's almost like your fitness, right?

01:00:54.559 --> 01:00:56.320
There's an upfront cost that you got to put the

01:00:56.320 --> 01:00:59.550
time and effort to get yourself into shape. lose

01:00:59.550 --> 01:01:02.250
the weight, get the runs in, get the lifts in.

01:01:02.530 --> 01:01:04.570
But then you see all the benefits on the back

01:01:04.570 --> 01:01:07.090
end. I'm living longer. I can move better for

01:01:07.090 --> 01:01:10.650
my kids and grandkids. And you reap all the benefits,

01:01:10.730 --> 01:01:13.429
but you don't see them right away. And I think

01:01:13.429 --> 01:01:15.550
it's really difficult for people that are just

01:01:15.550 --> 01:01:19.409
looking at spreadsheets and budgets to look past

01:01:19.409 --> 01:01:21.630
that piece of paper to be like, oh, well, if

01:01:21.630 --> 01:01:25.980
we spend 500 grand this year, In five years,

01:01:26.159 --> 01:01:29.340
that same budget is going to be $100 ,000 or

01:01:29.340 --> 01:01:32.579
whatever it is. And I think we need to start,

01:01:32.800 --> 01:01:35.840
if people can start looking past that piece of

01:01:35.840 --> 01:01:40.119
paper and into the future and really dive into

01:01:40.119 --> 01:01:43.420
the benefits of having some sort of standard,

01:01:43.719 --> 01:01:46.880
that things are really starting to shift. Support

01:01:46.880 --> 01:01:49.340
from the communities will start shifting. Support

01:01:49.340 --> 01:01:52.280
from the cities will start shifting. Absolutely.

01:01:52.480 --> 01:01:55.039
I mean, from the money side of you on the fire

01:01:55.039 --> 01:01:58.260
side, showing just what's being spent on overtime

01:01:58.260 --> 01:02:00.679
because of people not wanting to work in this

01:02:00.679 --> 01:02:03.179
profession at the moment is, depending on the

01:02:03.179 --> 01:02:05.280
size of agency, anywhere from millions to hundreds

01:02:05.280 --> 01:02:09.619
of millions. Now you add in the cost to train

01:02:09.619 --> 01:02:12.079
an employee that then leaves and goes to another

01:02:12.079 --> 01:02:16.199
agency, $20 ,000 per recruit there. And then

01:02:16.199 --> 01:02:18.449
just to pull a number that you said. How much

01:02:18.449 --> 01:02:21.190
is 200 people on workman's comp costing that

01:02:21.190 --> 01:02:23.889
agency as well? I know it's usually premiums,

01:02:23.889 --> 01:02:26.909
but imagine if you slash that completely, the

01:02:26.909 --> 01:02:29.110
lowering of the premiums, you're saving millions

01:02:29.110 --> 01:02:31.090
there too. So there's all, this is what really

01:02:31.090 --> 01:02:33.909
surprises me. These financial people are supposed

01:02:33.909 --> 01:02:37.369
to be astute and they understand long -term economics

01:02:37.369 --> 01:02:39.550
and where the false economy is versus a good

01:02:39.550 --> 01:02:41.869
investment. And I don't understand why they're

01:02:41.869 --> 01:02:43.929
not looking at this millions and millions and

01:02:43.929 --> 01:02:46.489
millions of dollars and saying, wait. We can

01:02:46.489 --> 01:02:49.010
use this to hire more people. We can use this

01:02:49.010 --> 01:02:51.050
to shorten their work. We can use this to create

01:02:51.050 --> 01:02:53.050
a fitness standard and put gyms and stations

01:02:53.050 --> 01:02:56.210
and hire a nutritionist, whatever it is. And

01:02:56.210 --> 01:02:58.650
that's going to save money hand over fist. So

01:02:58.650 --> 01:03:00.869
that's what really blows me away is these finance

01:03:00.869 --> 01:03:03.690
people should be the loudest voices out there,

01:03:03.730 --> 01:03:06.349
but they're not. Which also, again, tells me,

01:03:06.369 --> 01:03:09.010
well, then are some of these people really even

01:03:09.010 --> 01:03:11.489
qualified if they're not seeing this glaring

01:03:11.489 --> 01:03:16.719
false economy that's in our professions? I also

01:03:16.719 --> 01:03:20.460
don't know how many, how many agencies are doing

01:03:20.460 --> 01:03:23.480
enough in the wellness and fitness space to,

01:03:23.579 --> 01:03:29.800
to show an ROI. I know a lot of, a lot of times

01:03:29.800 --> 01:03:31.760
they'll bring, it's like a one day workshop or

01:03:31.760 --> 01:03:35.059
they're bringing it, you know, they're, they

01:03:35.059 --> 01:03:37.179
have like an app or like, you know, whatever

01:03:37.179 --> 01:03:40.179
it is. And I don't know if it's enough. So let's

01:03:40.179 --> 01:03:42.260
take those 200 firefighters. Like if you brought

01:03:42.260 --> 01:03:46.550
in, A company that could get, let's say, 100

01:03:46.550 --> 01:03:49.769
of them back in the next two months. Let's say

01:03:49.769 --> 01:03:52.070
you pay a physical therapist. Working with those

01:03:52.070 --> 01:03:54.510
guys, let's get them back on the road. Strength

01:03:54.510 --> 01:03:57.969
and conditioning coach, you spend $100K, $150K

01:03:57.969 --> 01:04:00.929
on getting those guys just back up and running.

01:04:01.190 --> 01:04:04.889
But now it saves you $400 ,000 in overtime because

01:04:04.889 --> 01:04:07.670
you have another 100 firefighters back on trucks.

01:04:09.480 --> 01:04:11.480
These are some of the calculations that I think

01:04:11.480 --> 01:04:15.280
really need to be done. And yeah, we said, we're

01:04:15.280 --> 01:04:17.360
just not doing them. The people in the finance

01:04:17.360 --> 01:04:21.260
need to see beyond just what's coming through

01:04:21.260 --> 01:04:24.519
their desk and looking for outside the box solutions.

01:04:25.800 --> 01:04:28.639
Absolutely. Well, speaking of training, talk

01:04:28.639 --> 01:04:31.139
to me about the genesis of soulful training.

01:04:33.500 --> 01:04:36.420
Well, it kind of came about slowly. I mentioned

01:04:36.420 --> 01:04:39.980
like my SWAT commander. sent me through a strength

01:04:39.980 --> 01:04:42.880
and conditioning cert, which at the time my department

01:04:42.880 --> 01:04:44.780
didn't pay for. I went and paid for that on my

01:04:44.780 --> 01:04:48.579
own. We tried to get it submitted, but they said

01:04:48.579 --> 01:04:52.199
no. Again, not seeing the value in something

01:04:52.199 --> 01:04:54.820
right there. It would have cost them a couple

01:04:54.820 --> 01:04:58.440
hundred bucks for me to have this skill set that

01:04:58.440 --> 01:05:00.940
they didn't want to pay for. And I could have

01:05:00.940 --> 01:05:03.860
probably saved them thousands with making sure

01:05:03.860 --> 01:05:06.119
that our guys were healthier. But I don't want

01:05:06.119 --> 01:05:09.090
to go down that rabbit hole too far. Um, so it

01:05:09.090 --> 01:05:11.730
started there and then, you know, then, then

01:05:11.730 --> 01:05:14.550
it became like, well, okay, well, alongside strength

01:05:14.550 --> 01:05:16.690
and conditioning is nutrition, right? Like we

01:05:16.690 --> 01:05:19.369
need to be able to fuel our bodies poorly. Um,

01:05:19.469 --> 01:05:22.150
I also realized before I got those certs that

01:05:22.150 --> 01:05:24.849
I was, you know, I was getting injured somewhat

01:05:24.849 --> 01:05:28.469
frequently and I thought I knew what I was doing

01:05:28.469 --> 01:05:31.329
until I got educated. Then I was like, oh, I

01:05:31.329 --> 01:05:34.210
really don't know what I'm doing. And I started

01:05:34.210 --> 01:05:37.239
getting injured a lot less. It was, um, So I

01:05:37.239 --> 01:05:39.920
think having a professional in that space is

01:05:39.920 --> 01:05:42.059
really important because I had learned through

01:05:42.059 --> 01:05:45.000
trial and error that I was getting injured. And

01:05:45.000 --> 01:05:47.780
once I got education, I was able to stop that.

01:05:48.059 --> 01:05:51.639
So anyway, so I got strength and condition certified.

01:05:51.739 --> 01:05:54.960
I went through a nutrition course. And then I

01:05:54.960 --> 01:05:58.059
mentioned my chief at the time wanted me to run

01:05:58.059 --> 01:06:00.920
some wellness stuff for the agency. Well, she

01:06:00.920 --> 01:06:04.000
nominated me for the FBI National Academy Associates

01:06:04.000 --> 01:06:07.170
Resilience Train the Trainer. So I get selected

01:06:07.170 --> 01:06:09.530
for that. I go through that course, which was,

01:06:09.570 --> 01:06:15.309
I thought, an amazing course. And then and then

01:06:15.309 --> 01:06:17.690
that was like the first time in my my really

01:06:17.690 --> 01:06:21.929
my life that I that I truly understood the link

01:06:21.929 --> 01:06:24.969
between physical and mental health. So prior

01:06:24.969 --> 01:06:27.030
to that, it was like, OK, we need to work out.

01:06:27.090 --> 01:06:30.530
We need to eat right and we'll be solid. And

01:06:30.530 --> 01:06:32.070
then I went through that course and I was like,

01:06:32.110 --> 01:06:35.500
oh, there's more to this. And then I started

01:06:35.500 --> 01:06:37.599
to explore different things like Breathworks.

01:06:37.639 --> 01:06:40.579
I went and got a Breathworks certification. And

01:06:40.579 --> 01:06:43.280
then I had a SWAT buddy of mine invite me to

01:06:43.280 --> 01:06:45.760
a Wim Hof workshop. Are you familiar with Wim?

01:06:45.820 --> 01:06:48.820
I had Wim on the show. Did you really? I did,

01:06:48.880 --> 01:06:51.800
yeah. You're very familiar with Wim. Well, somewhat,

01:06:51.860 --> 01:06:53.920
yeah, yeah. Certainly, yeah, his work, definitely.

01:06:55.179 --> 01:07:00.260
So I had no idea who Wim was at the time. My

01:07:00.260 --> 01:07:02.559
friend was like, I'm going to this thing. I don't

01:07:02.559 --> 01:07:04.860
really know what it is. And he's like, you're

01:07:04.860 --> 01:07:06.559
into health. You just come with me. And I was

01:07:06.559 --> 01:07:10.039
like, all right, you know, let's do it. So like

01:07:10.039 --> 01:07:12.579
I show up to this house and the guy teaching

01:07:12.579 --> 01:07:16.880
the class is a retired SEAL, retired FBI SWAT

01:07:16.880 --> 01:07:20.360
guy. And, you know, he was telling this story

01:07:20.360 --> 01:07:23.059
about like how this saved his life. And, you

01:07:23.059 --> 01:07:25.000
know, he had the brain scans to prove it. And

01:07:25.000 --> 01:07:27.579
he put his like, you know, put the brain scans

01:07:27.579 --> 01:07:30.559
up on the screen. went through his whole story

01:07:30.559 --> 01:07:33.579
and i started going through the breath work and

01:07:33.579 --> 01:07:36.079
then we get into the cold and i'm like driving

01:07:36.079 --> 01:07:39.260
home that day and i'm like holy cow i didn't

01:07:39.260 --> 01:07:41.920
even realize i felt bad like i was like is this

01:07:41.920 --> 01:07:45.039
how normal people feel like this is amazing like

01:07:45.039 --> 01:07:48.110
i want to feel like this all the time So I went

01:07:48.110 --> 01:07:50.449
out and I bought a stock tank from Tractor Supply

01:07:50.449 --> 01:07:52.389
and I'm doing ice baths every day and I'm doing

01:07:52.389 --> 01:07:55.489
the breath work. And, you know, my wife's telling

01:07:55.489 --> 01:07:57.869
me how much it's changing our relationship and

01:07:57.869 --> 01:08:02.429
how much of a different person I am. And. Out

01:08:02.429 --> 01:08:05.170
of kind of that's like and then it was like,

01:08:05.210 --> 01:08:06.449
well, you need to get she's like, you need to

01:08:06.449 --> 01:08:08.750
go certified to do this and teach this other

01:08:08.750 --> 01:08:11.269
people. So I went and get certified in the Wim

01:08:11.269 --> 01:08:14.110
Hof method and then just kind of through all

01:08:14.110 --> 01:08:18.180
this. experience and education I kind of like

01:08:18.180 --> 01:08:21.420
almost Frankenstein this this program together

01:08:21.420 --> 01:08:24.159
which has evolved a whole lot in the last couple

01:08:24.159 --> 01:08:27.479
years but that's kind of how everything just

01:08:27.479 --> 01:08:31.939
started I it was it was my first it was my first

01:08:31.939 --> 01:08:34.380
look at like a more of a holistic approach where

01:08:34.380 --> 01:08:37.380
I'm like I understood the the importance of like

01:08:37.380 --> 01:08:39.840
spirituality and mental health and physical health

01:08:39.840 --> 01:08:42.239
and how they were all connected. And then I went

01:08:42.239 --> 01:08:44.060
through all these different certifications. It

01:08:44.060 --> 01:08:48.239
was like, we're not doing enough in the law enforcement

01:08:48.239 --> 01:08:51.439
field. And two things really kind of brought

01:08:51.439 --> 01:08:54.560
this home to me. One, I had a friend of mine

01:08:54.560 --> 01:08:58.819
pass away of a heart attack. My assistant chief

01:08:58.819 --> 01:09:01.399
at the time asked me to speak with him. He's

01:09:01.399 --> 01:09:03.479
like, he's having a hard time having some health

01:09:03.479 --> 01:09:06.409
issues. Let's get him on a, you know, a wellness

01:09:06.409 --> 01:09:09.970
program. So I go into his office and we're talking

01:09:09.970 --> 01:09:15.170
and he was eating McDonald's. I walk in his office.

01:09:15.210 --> 01:09:18.409
He's got like McDonald's on his desk. And I was

01:09:18.409 --> 01:09:20.689
like, hey, we're going to change some habits.

01:09:20.750 --> 01:09:23.109
We're going to do some things different. And,

01:09:23.229 --> 01:09:25.170
you know, I'll work with you. I'll hold your

01:09:25.170 --> 01:09:28.130
hand through the whole way. And then like two

01:09:28.130 --> 01:09:30.130
weeks later, I find out he dies of a heart attack.

01:09:33.319 --> 01:09:36.640
It was that moment where I realized, like, we

01:09:36.640 --> 01:09:38.859
can be we need to be way more proactive. I'm

01:09:38.859 --> 01:09:40.460
like, you know, if I would have got to him six

01:09:40.460 --> 01:09:44.180
months ago or a year ago or two years ago, you

01:09:44.180 --> 01:09:47.640
know, would he still be with us today? And then

01:09:47.640 --> 01:09:50.239
within that same time frame, I went to this training.

01:09:50.340 --> 01:09:54.640
It was about resilience. The guy that came in

01:09:54.640 --> 01:09:57.020
was a retired Marine. I think it was a Marine

01:09:57.020 --> 01:09:59.619
Raider or recon or something like that. And he

01:09:59.619 --> 01:10:02.079
was telling his story and it was a very compelling

01:10:02.079 --> 01:10:06.180
story. But when I left that class, I was like,

01:10:06.220 --> 01:10:09.220
I didn't really learn anything. Like he never

01:10:09.220 --> 01:10:11.840
really went over like, well, what did you do

01:10:11.840 --> 01:10:14.640
to come out of that funk? Like how, you know,

01:10:14.640 --> 01:10:16.899
how did you go from like having the gun in your

01:10:16.899 --> 01:10:19.460
hand to putting it down and like turning your

01:10:19.460 --> 01:10:22.119
life around? Like he went through all the steps

01:10:22.119 --> 01:10:25.300
of his story, but never really like told us like

01:10:25.300 --> 01:10:29.119
the tools he used and how he did it. And I was

01:10:29.119 --> 01:10:31.579
like, I have to do better. Like I need to put

01:10:31.579 --> 01:10:35.020
together something that's actionable for everyone.

01:10:35.500 --> 01:10:37.680
That's something that we can do. So I wanted

01:10:37.680 --> 01:10:40.039
to be proactive and I wanted to be actionable.

01:10:40.340 --> 01:10:42.979
And I built soulful training and the soulful

01:10:42.979 --> 01:10:46.239
warrior program kind of what I felt was necessity.

01:10:47.899 --> 01:10:50.720
So you've had this path of ultra running and

01:10:50.720 --> 01:10:52.779
then you're exposed to strength and conditioning

01:10:52.779 --> 01:10:56.159
and then the Wim Hof method. Talk to me about

01:10:56.159 --> 01:10:58.180
the pillars that you've created in your training,

01:10:58.260 --> 01:11:00.220
because obviously a lot of times in the wellness

01:11:00.220 --> 01:11:03.260
space, you've just got cardio and strength, for

01:11:03.260 --> 01:11:05.960
example. So expand on that through a holistic

01:11:05.960 --> 01:11:12.739
eye. So I initially started with physical, mental,

01:11:12.920 --> 01:11:16.699
social, and purpose. So those are kind of the

01:11:16.699 --> 01:11:19.439
cornerstones of my thought process. We need physical

01:11:19.439 --> 01:11:23.500
health, so nutrition, physical fitness, cardio,

01:11:23.779 --> 01:11:28.630
sleep. The mental side of it, you know, the purpose,

01:11:28.750 --> 01:11:30.829
like why are we doing what we're doing? And then

01:11:30.829 --> 01:11:33.350
the social aspect, which comes into like, you

01:11:33.350 --> 01:11:35.510
know, leadership, how we interact with our squad

01:11:35.510 --> 01:11:37.810
mates, how we interact with our friends and our

01:11:37.810 --> 01:11:40.670
family. All of this creates an environment that's

01:11:40.670 --> 01:11:43.369
different. So I wanted those were kind of like

01:11:43.369 --> 01:11:46.510
my core pillars of my thought process. But I

01:11:46.510 --> 01:11:49.489
felt like it was missing something. So about

01:11:49.489 --> 01:11:53.750
six months or so ago, I transitioned into a system.

01:11:54.300 --> 01:11:57.779
So it still encompasses all those pillars. But

01:11:57.779 --> 01:12:00.979
the system is control the physiology, situational

01:12:00.979 --> 01:12:04.020
and mental mastery, and optimizing recovery.

01:12:04.520 --> 01:12:07.000
So we're going to kind of interject all of those

01:12:07.000 --> 01:12:09.539
pillars into that. So control the physiology.

01:12:09.640 --> 01:12:11.520
What does that mean? Well, that's where your

01:12:11.520 --> 01:12:15.560
strength and your cardio come in. That's our

01:12:15.560 --> 01:12:19.439
physiological well -being makeup. But it also

01:12:19.439 --> 01:12:23.789
includes relaxing. our vagus nerve, relaxing

01:12:23.789 --> 01:12:28.210
our stress hormone levels. It's mastering everything

01:12:28.210 --> 01:12:31.470
that's going on from a biological, physiological

01:12:31.470 --> 01:12:36.189
component inside. Situational and mental mastery,

01:12:36.470 --> 01:12:43.050
preparing ourselves for battle every day. We've

01:12:43.050 --> 01:12:45.229
seen plenty of officer -involved shooting on

01:12:45.229 --> 01:12:48.289
the news. The state of Arizona just lost a great

01:12:48.289 --> 01:12:53.920
officer about a month ago. Being mentally prepared

01:12:53.920 --> 01:12:56.220
to be in that battle is not an easy thing to

01:12:56.220 --> 01:12:59.340
do. To knowing that you may not come home at

01:12:59.340 --> 01:13:04.119
night is a daunting thought. And then to prepare

01:13:04.119 --> 01:13:06.420
yourself and to make sure your family is taken

01:13:06.420 --> 01:13:10.739
care of. So that's mental mastery as far as that

01:13:10.739 --> 01:13:15.039
goes. But in addition to that, how do you view

01:13:15.039 --> 01:13:18.100
the two -year -old that went through the windshield

01:13:18.100 --> 01:13:22.140
of a car accident? How do you prepare your mind

01:13:22.140 --> 01:13:24.399
for all the terrible things that you're going

01:13:24.399 --> 01:13:27.960
to see on the job? How do you how do you armor

01:13:27.960 --> 01:13:33.460
that mindset? So it's not as easily pierced when

01:13:33.460 --> 01:13:36.079
we go on those scenes. So that's kind of what

01:13:36.079 --> 01:13:38.439
I mean about mental mastery. Situational mastery

01:13:38.439 --> 01:13:43.180
is not what you know. I just talked about this

01:13:43.180 --> 01:13:48.199
in another another podcast. So it's not situational

01:13:48.199 --> 01:13:50.489
awareness. You're back at the door. you know,

01:13:50.489 --> 01:13:53.350
looking for threats at all times. It's understanding

01:13:53.350 --> 01:13:57.750
where you're at, understanding that, am I fine?

01:13:57.869 --> 01:14:02.010
Am I thriving? Am I in a bad place? Understanding

01:14:02.010 --> 01:14:04.729
your own, how is my behavior affecting my family?

01:14:04.869 --> 01:14:08.090
How is my behavior affecting my squad? How is

01:14:08.090 --> 01:14:10.970
my behavior affecting the department and the

01:14:10.970 --> 01:14:14.800
people that I serve? So encompassing kind of

01:14:14.800 --> 01:14:17.960
that into the program and then having some simple

01:14:17.960 --> 01:14:21.319
actionable things you can do every day to help

01:14:21.319 --> 01:14:23.979
improve that skill set. And then at the end of

01:14:23.979 --> 01:14:27.500
the shift, how do we recover? Is it an ice bath?

01:14:27.779 --> 01:14:30.859
Is it a breath work? Is it meditation? Is it

01:14:30.859 --> 01:14:35.199
a walk? Is it, you know, whatever you need to

01:14:35.199 --> 01:14:37.060
make sure that you can go to sleep at night,

01:14:37.119 --> 01:14:41.069
get a good solid seven to nine hours. And then

01:14:41.069 --> 01:14:44.069
wake up and do it every day for 20, 30 years

01:14:44.069 --> 01:14:47.850
because this job will wear on you. And the reason

01:14:47.850 --> 01:14:50.869
I kind of went to a system was because I realized

01:14:50.869 --> 01:14:53.229
in my own training, that's what I was doing.

01:14:53.689 --> 01:14:55.750
That's what athletes do, right? Like you go through

01:14:55.750 --> 01:14:58.510
training blocks, you know, you have I have my

01:14:58.510 --> 01:15:00.510
base building phase and then you have your, you

01:15:00.510 --> 01:15:03.090
know, your, you know, your specific phase. You

01:15:03.090 --> 01:15:05.430
have all these phases of a training program and

01:15:05.430 --> 01:15:07.850
you have this path that I follow to get better.

01:15:08.409 --> 01:15:10.430
And I'm like, well, why don't we have this for

01:15:10.430 --> 01:15:13.729
our wellness programs? We come in, I can teach

01:15:13.729 --> 01:15:16.670
you all the stuff that I do in one day, but how

01:15:16.670 --> 01:15:18.829
effective is that going to be for not only the

01:15:18.829 --> 01:15:21.829
people that are watching or listening to the

01:15:21.829 --> 01:15:24.369
training, but how effective is that for the department

01:15:24.369 --> 01:15:28.409
when they pay X amount of dollars to bring me

01:15:28.409 --> 01:15:30.949
or anybody else in? And then everybody's like,

01:15:31.029 --> 01:15:33.229
that's cool training, learned a lot, and they

01:15:33.229 --> 01:15:37.149
go back to their regular lives. I realized that

01:15:37.149 --> 01:15:40.670
we needed something easy to follow and something

01:15:40.670 --> 01:15:44.729
that's sustained over a period of time, which

01:15:44.729 --> 01:15:47.449
is why I went with a 12 -week program because

01:15:47.449 --> 01:15:50.189
we need to make sure that if I'm teaching you

01:15:50.189 --> 01:15:52.369
something that we're actually applying it to

01:15:52.369 --> 01:15:56.270
our life and applying it to our everyday so we

01:15:56.270 --> 01:15:58.689
can have improvements by the end of the 12 weeks

01:15:58.689 --> 01:16:01.670
and build a foundation instead of just coming

01:16:01.670 --> 01:16:03.850
in and it's like, cool, thanks for the training.

01:16:04.909 --> 01:16:08.170
We see in so many law enforcement trainings and

01:16:08.170 --> 01:16:12.590
I want it to be different. You mentioned about

01:16:12.590 --> 01:16:16.489
where I am at the moment. And when I think back

01:16:16.489 --> 01:16:20.489
to the fire station, the entire crew is in the

01:16:20.489 --> 01:16:24.270
meat grinder together. So we are a terrible barometer

01:16:24.270 --> 01:16:26.109
of how we're doing because we're all doing the

01:16:26.109 --> 01:16:29.609
same usually or somewhat. So what do you use

01:16:29.609 --> 01:16:32.390
as a tool for that person to assess how they're

01:16:32.390 --> 01:16:36.380
truly doing? I think this is where learning how

01:16:36.380 --> 01:16:39.659
to connect with yourself and really truly understanding

01:16:39.659 --> 01:16:42.880
like where you're at outside of the firehouse

01:16:42.880 --> 01:16:46.460
or outside of that squad room can give you a

01:16:46.460 --> 01:16:50.840
different perspective. So, yeah, like everybody's

01:16:50.840 --> 01:16:53.579
going to be doing fine. But if you don't have

01:16:53.579 --> 01:16:56.699
the understanding that you're not actually fine,

01:16:56.960 --> 01:17:00.779
then. then that's where we really start to run

01:17:00.779 --> 01:17:03.359
into big issues. And I honestly think I'm fine

01:17:03.359 --> 01:17:05.340
is probably one of the worst places we can be.

01:17:06.720 --> 01:17:09.859
Because if you know you're not fine, you're really

01:17:09.859 --> 01:17:12.420
struggling. We have resources for that. You can

01:17:12.420 --> 01:17:14.819
go see your clinical social worker, you know,

01:17:14.819 --> 01:17:17.180
the psychologist, whatever. We have peer support.

01:17:17.340 --> 01:17:20.039
We have things in place for that. If you're thriving,

01:17:20.260 --> 01:17:26.600
awesome. But fine is just this blah, limbo, middle

01:17:26.600 --> 01:17:29.899
of the road, like. You're just a body holding

01:17:29.899 --> 01:17:35.260
a space. And if you're just fine, you're not

01:17:35.260 --> 01:17:38.420
bad enough to get help, but you're also not really

01:17:38.420 --> 01:17:42.039
doing the things to make your life truly worthwhile.

01:17:42.560 --> 01:17:45.479
So one of my goals is to get you out of fine

01:17:45.479 --> 01:17:49.859
and to thrive. But if you don't understand where

01:17:49.859 --> 01:17:51.640
you're at or what is it, you don't understand

01:17:51.640 --> 01:17:56.500
what it looks like to be outside of. just fine

01:17:56.500 --> 01:18:01.640
or in bad mental health, then we're really failing.

01:18:03.079 --> 01:18:05.159
One of the interesting things that's come up

01:18:05.159 --> 01:18:09.699
over the years is especially in areas where there

01:18:09.699 --> 01:18:11.920
is resistance to, for example, the mental health

01:18:11.920 --> 01:18:15.180
conversation, you know, the kind of pseudo masculinity

01:18:15.180 --> 01:18:18.300
that we discussed earlier, is there really doesn't

01:18:18.300 --> 01:18:20.479
seem to be much difference between what you would

01:18:20.479 --> 01:18:25.300
do for processing mental health challenges and

01:18:25.300 --> 01:18:28.560
what you would do to maximize performance. So,

01:18:28.560 --> 01:18:30.819
you know, I had a guy on the show, I've mentioned

01:18:30.819 --> 01:18:33.220
this many times, but he's a baseball athlete

01:18:33.220 --> 01:18:35.300
and he was talking about flow state. And he's

01:18:35.300 --> 01:18:37.760
also a coach as well. And he was like, you need

01:18:37.760 --> 01:18:40.140
three things. You need, you know, the 10 ,000

01:18:40.140 --> 01:18:43.800
reps, you need stress and you need a calm mind.

01:18:44.279 --> 01:18:46.640
Now, you know, as we progress through our careers,

01:18:46.680 --> 01:18:48.600
we get better and we get those reps. The stress

01:18:48.600 --> 01:18:51.659
is always there, but it's that calm mind to perform.

01:18:52.649 --> 01:18:55.550
And when I look at the post -traumatic growth,

01:18:55.670 --> 01:18:57.569
the people that have been through this crucible,

01:18:57.710 --> 01:19:01.609
to me, that really is the ultimate resilience

01:19:01.609 --> 01:19:04.670
is that you found the things that were fracturing

01:19:04.670 --> 01:19:07.710
your foundation, you work through them, and now

01:19:07.710 --> 01:19:10.550
you are more resilient. You're more empathetic.

01:19:10.590 --> 01:19:13.590
You're going to operate at a higher level. So

01:19:13.590 --> 01:19:16.069
what have you seen as far as that whole conversation,

01:19:16.369 --> 01:19:20.210
finding areas that maybe are... perceive weaknesses

01:19:20.210 --> 01:19:23.329
having the courage to address them and then forging

01:19:23.329 --> 01:19:27.029
resilience yeah i don't think you can really

01:19:27.029 --> 01:19:29.390
forge resilience without hardship i mean you

01:19:29.390 --> 01:19:32.069
said it has to it has to be there and i think

01:19:32.069 --> 01:19:33.750
that's where wim's method actually is really

01:19:33.750 --> 01:19:36.069
powerful whether you're doing ice baths independent

01:19:36.069 --> 01:19:39.250
of the breath work or not um that's the sole

01:19:39.250 --> 01:19:41.390
purpose of the ice bath is to learn how to relax

01:19:41.390 --> 01:19:44.750
while you're stressed and then you know that

01:19:44.750 --> 01:19:48.659
repetition that comes in But if we're not doing

01:19:48.659 --> 01:19:51.279
all the work to forge that mental resilience,

01:19:51.359 --> 01:19:55.260
then we we need to figure out how to do it one

01:19:55.260 --> 01:19:57.060
way or another. I think that's one of the biggest

01:19:57.060 --> 01:20:00.539
things for me. Why? Why do ultra marathons is

01:20:00.539 --> 01:20:05.199
not it's it's about pushing myself into a space

01:20:05.199 --> 01:20:08.460
where I'm really, really uncomfortable and it's

01:20:08.460 --> 01:20:12.600
really hard and you want to quit and you find

01:20:12.600 --> 01:20:15.039
something in you just to kind of keep going.

01:20:15.819 --> 01:20:18.560
And once we start doing that over and over again,

01:20:18.699 --> 01:20:22.880
it really starts to forge that armor in our bodies

01:20:22.880 --> 01:20:26.340
and our minds. But without the awareness, without

01:20:26.340 --> 01:20:29.119
testing yourself and without understanding yourself,

01:20:29.319 --> 01:20:34.939
you're never going to find that. What have you

01:20:34.939 --> 01:20:37.979
observed as far as performance and resilience?

01:20:38.159 --> 01:20:41.060
Because I think this is the hope of, you know,

01:20:41.060 --> 01:20:43.659
the Adam 2 .0 on the other side of this journey.

01:20:45.860 --> 01:20:49.039
So what I've seen as far as performance and resilience,

01:20:49.420 --> 01:20:52.819
like personally or like professionally? I mean,

01:20:52.840 --> 01:20:54.819
either or. So, for example, people that are,

01:20:54.840 --> 01:20:57.960
you know, say still in a SWOT organization, you

01:20:57.960 --> 01:20:59.579
know, a lot of times you hear like, yeah, no,

01:20:59.659 --> 01:21:01.640
I was actually operating at a much higher level,

01:21:01.720 --> 01:21:04.539
which is contrary to what people think. Well,

01:21:04.579 --> 01:21:06.699
if I'm on edge, if I've got that stuff buried

01:21:06.699 --> 01:21:08.439
down, it's going to make me a better operator,

01:21:08.560 --> 01:21:12.590
which is actually counterintuitive. Yeah, I think

01:21:12.590 --> 01:21:15.229
it kind of goes back to what your baseball player

01:21:15.229 --> 01:21:17.109
said, right? Like you got to operate within that

01:21:17.109 --> 01:21:20.250
flow state. So if you can find a place where

01:21:20.250 --> 01:21:24.109
you don't want to be on edge because you're going

01:21:24.109 --> 01:21:26.649
to overstimulate that nervous system, like we're

01:21:26.649 --> 01:21:28.449
going to be, our stress hormones are going to

01:21:28.449 --> 01:21:31.069
be too high, but we also need to be able to raise

01:21:31.069 --> 01:21:33.970
that threshold a little bit. And if we can raise

01:21:33.970 --> 01:21:36.189
that threshold through workouts, through ice

01:21:36.189 --> 01:21:38.369
baths, through breath work, through, you know,

01:21:38.390 --> 01:21:41.630
different things. it's going to elevate it's

01:21:41.630 --> 01:21:43.609
just going to naturally carry our performance

01:21:43.609 --> 01:21:46.210
to the next level because not only are we going

01:21:46.210 --> 01:21:49.010
to physiologically be stronger but we're also

01:21:49.010 --> 01:21:51.750
going to see mentally that we're capable of a

01:21:51.750 --> 01:21:53.770
little bit more than we think of that we think

01:21:53.770 --> 01:21:56.270
we can do and you know i equate a lot of stuff

01:21:56.270 --> 01:22:00.090
to to my running background but like if you quit

01:22:00.090 --> 01:22:06.149
at mile 75 then you never really learn that you're

01:22:06.149 --> 01:22:08.750
capable of more And then that's going to drive

01:22:08.750 --> 01:22:11.970
your performance down. It's going to ruin confidence.

01:22:12.789 --> 01:22:17.189
It's going to create self -doubt. And I think

01:22:17.189 --> 01:22:19.130
if we do that in the performance space, like,

01:22:19.170 --> 01:22:22.510
you know, SWAT space, you can't have a SWAT operator

01:22:22.510 --> 01:22:26.569
who is operating in self -doubt that doesn't

01:22:26.569 --> 01:22:29.449
trust himself. But if we can continually make

01:22:29.449 --> 01:22:33.569
things hard and carry that performance to a new

01:22:33.569 --> 01:22:36.899
level. and raise that baseline, then you're just

01:22:36.899 --> 01:22:39.060
going to have, you're going to have a better

01:22:39.060 --> 01:22:41.140
performing team and you're going to have a better

01:22:41.140 --> 01:22:46.640
performing solo operator. Absolutely. I had something

01:22:46.640 --> 01:22:48.199
to add. I'm sure I remember what the hell I was

01:22:48.199 --> 01:22:50.119
going to say there. I let my mind just wander

01:22:50.119 --> 01:22:53.840
for a second. Oh, that was a recovery. So let

01:22:53.840 --> 01:22:55.520
me write that down as well. I don't know why

01:22:55.520 --> 01:23:00.600
I got the monkey mind then. All right. Well,

01:23:00.680 --> 01:23:02.819
one more area before we go to some closing questions.

01:23:03.730 --> 01:23:07.710
Jeff Nichols, who's a SEAL DevGuru guy turned

01:23:07.710 --> 01:23:09.810
strength and conditioning coach, made a really

01:23:09.810 --> 01:23:12.510
good point a few years ago on here. I used to

01:23:12.510 --> 01:23:14.630
have the mentality of coming off shift and then

01:23:14.630 --> 01:23:16.970
going to do a kind of red line CrossFit workout

01:23:16.970 --> 01:23:19.810
and, you know, get rid of all the stress, as

01:23:19.810 --> 01:23:24.029
we always say. As I had that aha moment, I facepalmed

01:23:24.029 --> 01:23:26.260
on my... Of course, he's like, you come out of

01:23:26.260 --> 01:23:28.279
shift stress, you haven't slept all night, and

01:23:28.279 --> 01:23:30.619
then you go do a high stress workout with complex

01:23:30.619 --> 01:23:33.359
movements. Of course, that's not going to downregulate

01:23:33.359 --> 01:23:34.979
you. You're just going to add stress on stress.

01:23:35.439 --> 01:23:38.060
So talk to me about the philosophy of the police

01:23:38.060 --> 01:23:39.960
officer, the firefighter, the dispatcher, whoever

01:23:39.960 --> 01:23:43.840
it is, that's coming off a high stress shift

01:23:43.840 --> 01:23:47.159
as far as the type of intensity that they should

01:23:47.159 --> 01:23:50.600
plug in there and or the type of rest and recovery.

01:23:52.800 --> 01:23:54.939
Yeah, I think this kind of goes back to what

01:23:54.939 --> 01:23:56.920
we were talking about, like understanding like

01:23:56.920 --> 01:23:59.439
where you're at, understanding where your red

01:23:59.439 --> 01:24:01.779
line is, what kind of what kind of state nervous

01:24:01.779 --> 01:24:04.560
system state you're in. You know, are you are

01:24:04.560 --> 01:24:07.380
you overly stressed? Because, yeah, like we don't

01:24:07.380 --> 01:24:10.579
want to just just add, you know, extra stress

01:24:10.579 --> 01:24:13.460
on top of the stress. So if you are in a situation

01:24:13.460 --> 01:24:15.939
where like you had a really rough shift, poor

01:24:15.939 --> 01:24:18.760
sleep, like, yeah, I don't want you. You may

01:24:18.760 --> 01:24:21.060
not even go to the gym. I'd rather see you do.

01:24:21.760 --> 01:24:25.460
some breath work or a meditation, a yoga practice,

01:24:25.800 --> 01:24:29.539
maybe go for a walk and figure out how to relax

01:24:29.539 --> 01:24:32.100
your mind, relax the body and put it in more

01:24:32.100 --> 01:24:38.420
of a parasympathetic state than just continuing

01:24:38.420 --> 01:24:40.960
to redline your body. I know we think we can

01:24:40.960 --> 01:24:42.659
do it, especially your high performers, your

01:24:42.659 --> 01:24:46.640
dev group guys, your SWAT guys. It's like go,

01:24:46.739 --> 01:24:49.359
go, go, pedal to the metal, foot on the gas pedal.

01:24:50.100 --> 01:24:52.520
But we have to understand like when we need to,

01:24:52.520 --> 01:24:56.159
when we need to slow that down, just like any

01:24:56.159 --> 01:24:58.159
good training program, right? There's like a,

01:24:58.199 --> 01:25:01.199
there's a buildup where you don't, I mean, how

01:25:01.199 --> 01:25:03.460
often do you really go a hundred percent in training,

01:25:03.539 --> 01:25:06.680
right? Like you say training for the battlefield,

01:25:06.680 --> 01:25:08.460
you say the a hundred percent for the battlefield.

01:25:09.760 --> 01:25:11.920
You know, like I did a, I did a threshold workout

01:25:11.920 --> 01:25:14.199
this morning. You know, I'm fresh. I got good

01:25:14.199 --> 01:25:18.039
sleep last night, but a threshold workout. pushes

01:25:18.039 --> 01:25:21.640
me to that lactic acid threshold, but I'm not

01:25:21.640 --> 01:25:24.539
racing my workout. I'm just kind of pushing the

01:25:24.539 --> 01:25:27.460
envelope a little bit. So if you come off a shift

01:25:27.460 --> 01:25:30.340
and you're feeling good, low stress, chill day,

01:25:31.359 --> 01:25:35.380
you know, be adaptive in your training. And that

01:25:35.380 --> 01:25:37.359
type of day, hey, yeah, you know what, go a little

01:25:37.359 --> 01:25:40.060
harder. You know, let's push the envelope a little

01:25:40.060 --> 01:25:42.140
bit. Let's put a threshold in there. Maybe we

01:25:42.140 --> 01:25:44.939
can do a CrossFit workout. But if you had a stressful

01:25:44.939 --> 01:25:47.579
day, We need a different tool. We need some breath

01:25:47.579 --> 01:25:51.279
work, meditation, a walk. We need to understand

01:25:51.279 --> 01:25:54.100
what we're going through and what our body needs

01:25:54.100 --> 01:25:57.819
when it needs it. Beautiful. All right. Well,

01:25:57.880 --> 01:25:59.779
then go into the closing questions. The first

01:25:59.779 --> 01:26:02.600
one I love to ask, is there a book or are there

01:26:02.600 --> 01:26:05.140
books that you love to recommend? It can be related

01:26:05.140 --> 01:26:07.300
to our discussion today or completely unrelated.

01:26:09.359 --> 01:26:11.840
Yeah, there's two books that I always recommend.

01:26:11.979 --> 01:26:14.859
One is The Body Keeps Score. I think it gives

01:26:14.859 --> 01:26:19.239
a really good illustration of how the human body

01:26:19.239 --> 01:26:23.000
and mind handles stress and how it works, how

01:26:23.000 --> 01:26:27.180
we just never, we don't ever quite release it

01:26:27.180 --> 01:26:29.760
the way that we think we do. And the other one

01:26:29.760 --> 01:26:34.159
is called the comfort crisis. And the comfort

01:26:34.159 --> 01:26:36.479
crisis, for those that don't know, is basically

01:26:36.479 --> 01:26:40.210
a story of this guy who goes on this like. Alaskan

01:26:40.210 --> 01:26:42.890
wilderness hunt for 30 days. Him and his friends

01:26:42.890 --> 01:26:45.310
get dropped off in the middle of nowhere with

01:26:45.310 --> 01:26:48.250
just the supplies on their back. And then he

01:26:48.250 --> 01:26:52.489
shifts back and forth from his experience to

01:26:52.489 --> 01:26:56.770
a lot of studies and some of the science behind

01:26:56.770 --> 01:27:02.390
that stress is good for us in a certain capacity.

01:27:02.989 --> 01:27:06.210
And if we're making our lives easy and we're

01:27:06.210 --> 01:27:09.840
constantly seeking comfort. that it's actually

01:27:09.840 --> 01:27:12.260
going to have the counter effect to our life.

01:27:12.399 --> 01:27:14.340
We think that seeking comfort is going to make

01:27:14.340 --> 01:27:17.100
things easy when in reality it makes things harder

01:27:17.100 --> 01:27:20.460
and vice versa. When we seek hard things, it

01:27:20.460 --> 01:27:22.779
makes everything else easy. So those two books

01:27:22.779 --> 01:27:25.819
I really recommend. Yeah, I had Michael Easter

01:27:25.819 --> 01:27:28.340
on the show too that wrote Comfort Crisis. It

01:27:28.340 --> 01:27:31.239
was a great conversation. A lot of people, I

01:27:31.239 --> 01:27:32.840
mean, very lucky. A lot of good people on here.

01:27:34.670 --> 01:27:36.449
All right. Well, then the next question, what

01:27:36.449 --> 01:27:41.010
about films and documentaries? Films and documentaries.

01:27:41.390 --> 01:27:52.930
Oh, goodness. I mean, I always love inspirational

01:27:52.930 --> 01:27:57.329
movies, honestly. A lot of sports movies. My

01:27:57.329 --> 01:28:00.810
all time favorite movie is The Sandlot. I think

01:28:00.810 --> 01:28:04.439
that. It brings me back to a childhood like state

01:28:04.439 --> 01:28:07.300
where like, I remember playing baseball as a

01:28:07.300 --> 01:28:11.659
kid under the lights. And I don't know. I like

01:28:11.659 --> 01:28:15.939
to find movies that, that bring, bring that side,

01:28:16.020 --> 01:28:18.659
bring that side of me out. Like, that's why I

01:28:18.659 --> 01:28:20.779
love that movie so much. It just, it brings out

01:28:20.779 --> 01:28:25.119
this childhood in me that I, I love it. And then,

01:28:25.140 --> 01:28:27.039
you know, all the sports movies, like I love,

01:28:27.119 --> 01:28:32.319
remember the Titans. Major League, the funny,

01:28:32.399 --> 01:28:35.720
the comedy element to it, obviously. I'm a Cleveland

01:28:35.720 --> 01:28:43.399
guy. But for inspiration, I love the Prefontaine

01:28:43.399 --> 01:28:47.460
movie, Without Limits. I love Steve Prefontaine's

01:28:47.460 --> 01:28:50.399
mentality. And if I ever get into a place where

01:28:50.399 --> 01:28:54.779
I'm struggling to stay motivated or I want to

01:28:54.779 --> 01:28:56.939
take the easy route out, that's kind of my go

01:28:56.939 --> 01:29:03.979
-to as far as movies go. Watching him race and

01:29:03.979 --> 01:29:07.699
watching his thought processes before races and

01:29:07.699 --> 01:29:11.239
his mentality going into the sport is just inspiring.

01:29:12.600 --> 01:29:14.819
A reoccurring theme, a lot of things that we've

01:29:14.819 --> 01:29:17.680
talked about aligns with the phrase I love, choose

01:29:17.680 --> 01:29:19.460
your heart. And you kind of touched on it before.

01:29:21.180 --> 01:29:23.840
it's it's going to be hard either way so why

01:29:23.840 --> 01:29:26.880
not put the work in and you know whether it's

01:29:26.880 --> 01:29:28.479
the meditation because that can be uncomfortable

01:29:28.479 --> 01:29:31.399
whether it might be an ayahuasca journey or it

01:29:31.399 --> 01:29:33.100
might just simply be a physical fitness training

01:29:33.100 --> 01:29:37.239
program the benefits far outweigh you know the

01:29:37.239 --> 01:29:40.659
the work that you have to put in initially whereas

01:29:40.659 --> 01:29:43.739
if you don't and you seek the path of least resistance

01:29:43.739 --> 01:29:47.680
and again being very very So empathetic, you

01:29:47.680 --> 01:29:49.520
know, this is a product of the environment as

01:29:49.520 --> 01:29:51.640
well. Not everyone can just wake up and, you

01:29:51.640 --> 01:29:53.619
know, 5 a .m. and just go start running, for

01:29:53.619 --> 01:29:57.779
example. But by those small choices of choosing

01:29:57.779 --> 01:30:01.220
the harder route, now you're alleviating from

01:30:01.220 --> 01:30:03.199
all that chronic suffering that a lot of people

01:30:03.199 --> 01:30:06.500
do if they leave mental health elements unaddressed

01:30:06.500 --> 01:30:09.140
or allow themselves to slowly gain weight. So

01:30:09.140 --> 01:30:11.699
I love that philosophy of choose your heart.

01:30:11.819 --> 01:30:13.859
It's going to be hard one way or the other anyway.

01:30:14.079 --> 01:30:17.069
Once you see that. Why not choose the one that's

01:30:17.069 --> 01:30:19.670
then going to give you a much better mental and

01:30:19.670 --> 01:30:26.029
physical fitness? Yeah, and I think the disconnect

01:30:26.029 --> 01:30:28.930
between – I think people want to do hard things,

01:30:29.050 --> 01:30:33.310
but I think there's a difference between wanting

01:30:33.310 --> 01:30:36.170
to do hard things and doing hard things. I remember

01:30:36.170 --> 01:30:40.500
my first 100 -mile race. I was about 80 in. And

01:30:40.500 --> 01:30:43.180
I mean, everything hurt my earlobes, my fingernails.

01:30:43.180 --> 01:30:45.199
Like I just, I wanted to just curl up in that

01:30:45.199 --> 01:30:49.000
chair and die. Like, and I remember he's a, the

01:30:49.000 --> 01:30:51.399
co -race director is a friend of mine now kind

01:30:51.399 --> 01:30:53.460
of like, you know, make checks on me, make sure

01:30:53.460 --> 01:30:55.520
I'm okay. Cause you know, they got to make sure

01:30:55.520 --> 01:30:58.439
nobody dies on their race course. Right. And

01:30:58.439 --> 01:31:00.359
he said, he wanted to do something hard. And

01:31:00.359 --> 01:31:01.880
I said, yeah, he said, well, this is what hard

01:31:01.880 --> 01:31:05.720
feels like. And that's stuck with me for, you

01:31:05.720 --> 01:31:09.000
know, ever since we have to understand that.

01:31:09.600 --> 01:31:12.960
Doing hard things also is accompanied by doing

01:31:12.960 --> 01:31:17.619
what hard feels like. And that's no fun. You

01:31:17.619 --> 01:31:19.319
know, when you're sucking wind or your muscles

01:31:19.319 --> 01:31:22.760
are burning and everything's broken down and

01:31:22.760 --> 01:31:25.960
to continue to push forward. And we can't be

01:31:25.960 --> 01:31:28.760
scared of that feeling. We have to start embracing

01:31:28.760 --> 01:31:32.180
it. I was watching a, you mentioned documentaries

01:31:32.180 --> 01:31:34.220
earlier. I was watching a YouTube documentary

01:31:34.220 --> 01:31:36.579
on Courtney DeWalter, who's probably the best

01:31:36.579 --> 01:31:39.600
female ultra runner of all time. And she started

01:31:39.600 --> 01:31:42.600
to explain that when she started running these

01:31:42.600 --> 01:31:45.239
long races that she would try to avoid the pain

01:31:45.239 --> 01:31:49.279
as long as possible. And what shifted for her

01:31:49.279 --> 01:31:53.560
was she stopped avoiding it. She started to seek

01:31:53.560 --> 01:31:56.880
it. She started, how long can I handle this?

01:31:57.060 --> 01:32:00.619
How fast can I get into that pain cave? And that's

01:32:00.619 --> 01:32:02.739
the moment that everything changed for her. And

01:32:02.739 --> 01:32:05.520
I try to adopt those same mentalities. Yeah.

01:32:05.579 --> 01:32:07.800
And just circling around to, again, our professions.

01:32:08.430 --> 01:32:10.710
This is what I love about those redline workouts.

01:32:11.689 --> 01:32:14.390
If you are, God forbid, in some clap situation

01:32:14.390 --> 01:32:17.350
or, you know, mass shooting or whatever it is,

01:32:17.409 --> 01:32:20.050
and you are now being asked to operate at that

01:32:20.050 --> 01:32:23.750
100 % in uniform, when was the last time you

01:32:23.750 --> 01:32:26.569
were in that level of discomfort? Was it a CrossFit

01:32:26.569 --> 01:32:29.630
workout three days ago or an ultramarathon training

01:32:29.630 --> 01:32:33.229
session? Or was it in the academy? And I think,

01:32:33.229 --> 01:32:34.810
you know, we've really got to take a step back

01:32:34.810 --> 01:32:38.100
and look, you know, there has to be. Absolutely

01:32:38.100 --> 01:32:41.000
sensible rest and recovery and progressive, intelligent,

01:32:41.439 --> 01:32:43.460
you know, strength and conditioning, you know,

01:32:43.460 --> 01:32:46.659
undulating programming. But you have to have

01:32:46.659 --> 01:32:49.819
suffered, you know, and in my profession in Florida

01:32:49.819 --> 01:32:52.279
and in California, that also includes training

01:32:52.279 --> 01:32:53.979
in your gear. Now we're finding out that our

01:32:53.979 --> 01:32:57.500
gears are riddled with carcinogens. But, you

01:32:57.500 --> 01:32:59.640
know, I don't want to be tapping out because

01:32:59.640 --> 01:33:02.289
I'm overheating two stories up. You know what

01:33:02.289 --> 01:33:04.050
I mean? We have to be able to do that. So I think

01:33:04.050 --> 01:33:06.649
this is why this conversation is even more important

01:33:06.649 --> 01:33:09.470
for us. The average person, they should be seeking

01:33:09.470 --> 01:33:11.010
this company. I got a friend of mine who's got

01:33:11.010 --> 01:33:14.770
a diesel engine business and he does all the,

01:33:14.770 --> 01:33:16.689
you know, the go rock selections and all he's

01:33:16.689 --> 01:33:19.289
constantly put himself in the crucible. His why

01:33:19.289 --> 01:33:20.949
is different to mine when I was wearing, you

01:33:20.949 --> 01:33:22.569
know, mine was just simply, I need to be able

01:33:22.569 --> 01:33:24.850
to ascend the tallest building in my first Jew

01:33:24.850 --> 01:33:27.810
with a hundred pounds of gear in bunker gear

01:33:27.810 --> 01:33:30.550
and then go to work. So it's a very specific

01:33:30.550 --> 01:33:33.170
kind of suffering. So that was where my training

01:33:33.170 --> 01:33:35.069
was. But did I train in gear all the time? No,

01:33:35.149 --> 01:33:37.630
of course not. But I think, you know, for us,

01:33:37.770 --> 01:33:41.090
realizing that you said that pain, that discomfort,

01:33:41.289 --> 01:33:45.329
the pain cave, the red line, if we're not visiting

01:33:45.329 --> 01:33:48.229
that frequently in our profession, we're setting

01:33:48.229 --> 01:33:49.970
ourselves up for failure. Because as you said,

01:33:50.010 --> 01:33:51.949
you don't rise to the level of expectation, you

01:33:51.949 --> 01:33:56.630
fall to your level of training. Yeah, and that's

01:33:56.630 --> 01:34:01.409
precisely what's so well said. When you get to

01:34:01.409 --> 01:34:05.689
that point when real life's on the line and you

01:34:05.689 --> 01:34:08.310
get tired, you can be like, oh, I've been here

01:34:08.310 --> 01:34:10.470
before. I know what this feels like. I can work

01:34:10.470 --> 01:34:12.810
through it. But if you don't know what that feels

01:34:12.810 --> 01:34:15.289
like, now you have a whole different level of

01:34:15.289 --> 01:34:16.930
panic. You've got a guy you're fighting with.

01:34:17.250 --> 01:34:25.109
You're in a house fire, and you're tired. we

01:34:25.109 --> 01:34:28.770
truly get broken down as we start to worry just

01:34:28.770 --> 01:34:30.630
about ourselves, right? It's a survival thing.

01:34:31.250 --> 01:34:34.250
So if we're getting to a point where we're redlining

01:34:34.250 --> 01:34:36.310
and we're like, Oh my God, I can't breathe. I

01:34:36.310 --> 01:34:38.670
can't move. My arms, my legs are tired. Like

01:34:38.670 --> 01:34:41.270
we're not worried about our teammates. We're

01:34:41.270 --> 01:34:43.689
not worried about our, our victims, our community.

01:34:43.850 --> 01:34:46.789
We're worried about ourselves. But if you're

01:34:46.789 --> 01:34:49.750
redlining or pushing that threshold frequently,

01:34:51.579 --> 01:34:53.640
You don't have that mentality because you're

01:34:53.640 --> 01:34:55.619
not panicking about your own well -being. You're

01:34:55.619 --> 01:34:58.739
like, oh, OK, I know what this feels like. And

01:34:58.739 --> 01:35:01.680
you can still have that overarching view of the

01:35:01.680 --> 01:35:04.720
mission. It's like, OK, I can still take care

01:35:04.720 --> 01:35:06.359
of my brother to the right or the left of me.

01:35:06.439 --> 01:35:09.300
I can still make sure that victim's taken care

01:35:09.300 --> 01:35:11.899
of because I know what this feels like and it's

01:35:11.899 --> 01:35:14.140
not that big of a deal. And I think that was

01:35:14.140 --> 01:35:17.439
one of the, you know, one of the biggest things

01:35:17.439 --> 01:35:20.369
during SEAL training was. you know, the teamwork

01:35:20.369 --> 01:35:22.909
side of it. Like, it's not about you. You have

01:35:22.909 --> 01:35:24.529
to learn how to take care of the person to your

01:35:24.529 --> 01:35:30.890
left and your right and your boat crew. And if

01:35:30.890 --> 01:35:33.590
you're too stressed and you can only worry about

01:35:33.590 --> 01:35:36.050
yourself, then you're not going to be an effective

01:35:36.050 --> 01:35:37.569
operator. You're not going to be an effective

01:35:37.569 --> 01:35:41.050
teammate. And that holds true for law enforcement,

01:35:41.289 --> 01:35:45.510
fire, and every other military unit. Absolutely.

01:35:46.140 --> 01:35:48.460
Well, the next to the closing questions, is there

01:35:48.460 --> 01:35:50.640
a person that you'd recommend to come on this

01:35:50.640 --> 01:35:53.800
podcast as a guest to speak to the first responders,

01:35:53.960 --> 01:35:56.260
military and associated professions of the world?

01:35:57.960 --> 01:36:03.619
We talked about a few of them already. Honestly,

01:36:04.420 --> 01:36:08.060
I think I think Vicky Speed, who has a nonprofit

01:36:08.060 --> 01:36:11.939
supporting first responders in cancer, is doing

01:36:11.939 --> 01:36:16.159
amazing things. I know her. I won't tell her

01:36:16.159 --> 01:36:18.500
whole story, but her husband passed away of cancer.

01:36:19.359 --> 01:36:21.840
It's been her driving mission to make sure that

01:36:21.840 --> 01:36:24.699
she helps as many first responders as possible.

01:36:25.140 --> 01:36:28.539
I know cancer is a rising thing for fire and

01:36:28.539 --> 01:36:33.420
PD, and she has a wonderful mission, and I think

01:36:33.420 --> 01:36:35.760
she's doing great things. Beautiful. We'll have

01:36:35.760 --> 01:36:38.640
to make that happen. So thank you. All right.

01:36:38.640 --> 01:36:40.239
Well, the last question before we make sure everyone

01:36:40.239 --> 01:36:42.600
knows where to find you and Soulful Training,

01:36:42.939 --> 01:36:48.930
what do you do to decompress? I think it varies

01:36:48.930 --> 01:36:51.630
on day to day. Again, this kind of goes back

01:36:51.630 --> 01:36:54.270
to what I feel like what I, what I need. Sometimes

01:36:54.270 --> 01:36:57.270
I do an ice bath. Sometimes I do a meditation.

01:36:57.470 --> 01:37:00.829
Sometimes I do a breath work. I have various

01:37:00.829 --> 01:37:04.289
types that I like to try. Sometimes I just, I

01:37:04.289 --> 01:37:06.170
don't do a structured breath work. I just play

01:37:06.170 --> 01:37:12.659
with it. Yeah. Maybe I'll go for a walk. So I

01:37:12.659 --> 01:37:15.520
just kind of trust my intuition on what I need.

01:37:15.619 --> 01:37:17.960
And I have a variety of tools, so I try not to

01:37:17.960 --> 01:37:21.140
get bored with it. Beautiful. And what about

01:37:21.140 --> 01:37:23.399
finding you online, social media? Where are the

01:37:23.399 --> 01:37:28.380
best places? It's SOFLE, S -O -L -E. So a little

01:37:28.380 --> 01:37:31.500
homage to my running background. S -O -L -E -F

01:37:31.500 --> 01:37:34.640
-U -L underscore training. And then my website's

01:37:34.640 --> 01:37:39.229
www .sofletraining .com. Brilliant. Well, Adam,

01:37:39.310 --> 01:37:41.010
I want to say thank you so much. Thank you to

01:37:41.010 --> 01:37:43.350
Raoul as well for the connection. It's been,

01:37:43.430 --> 01:37:45.729
again, such an interesting perspective. I mean,

01:37:45.829 --> 01:37:48.350
you know, everything from the mental health side

01:37:48.350 --> 01:37:50.930
to the resilience and the strength and conditioning.

01:37:51.390 --> 01:37:53.850
These are the conversations that we need to have

01:37:53.850 --> 01:37:56.350
to elevate our profession. And like I said, you

01:37:56.350 --> 01:37:58.750
know, not only elevate performance, but extend

01:37:58.750 --> 01:38:01.409
longevity as well, because the fact that we acknowledge

01:38:01.409 --> 01:38:05.489
that most of us pass away after five, six years

01:38:05.489 --> 01:38:07.630
of retirement. is something that we should all

01:38:07.630 --> 01:38:10.050
be furious about. And that hands down is connected

01:38:10.050 --> 01:38:12.750
not only to the shift work, but also the lack

01:38:12.750 --> 01:38:15.310
of standards, the lack of access to this kind

01:38:15.310 --> 01:38:17.829
of conversation, these kind of tools. So I want

01:38:17.829 --> 01:38:19.789
to thank you so much for being so generous with

01:38:19.789 --> 01:38:21.550
your time and coming on the Behind the Shield

01:38:21.550 --> 01:38:25.250
podcast today. Thank you so much. Absolutely

01:38:25.250 --> 01:38:29.130
wonderful conversation. And again, very excited

01:38:29.130 --> 01:38:31.130
to be here. It was such an amazing experience.