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don't qualify, there is still the 10 % off using

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the code BTN. Welcome to the Behind the Shield

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podcast. As always, my name is James Gearing,

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and this week it is my absolute honor to welcome

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on the show former federal intelligence agent

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and the founder of Jones & Associates, Hunter

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Jones. Now, in this conversation, we discuss

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a host of topics, from his journey into Air Force

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intelligence, the intelligence challenges of

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both Iraq and Afghanistan, domestic terrorism,

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homeless veterans, drug prohibition, and so much

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more. Now, before we get to this incredible conversation,

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as I say every week, please just take a moment,

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go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe

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to the show, leave feedback, and leave a rating.

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Every single five -star rating truly does elevate

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this podcast, therefore making it easier for

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others to find. And this is a free library of

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over 1 ,100 episodes now. So all I ask in return

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is that you help share these incredible men and

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women's stories so I can get them to every single

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person on planet Earth who needs to hear them.

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So with that being said, I introduce to you Hunter,

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Jones enjoy. Well, Hunter, I want to start by

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saying two things. Firstly, thank you to our

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mutual friend Jeff Engel for making the connection.

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And second, I want to welcome you onto the Behind

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the Shield podcast today. Great to be here. Thanks

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so much. Thanks for having me. So where on planet

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Earth are we finding you this afternoon? So I

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live right outside of Philadelphia, about 20

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miles west of the city, right by Valley Forge

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Park, where George Washington and his cronies

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hung out for a little bit. um i grew up in this

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area um yeah it's funny i uh you'll laugh at

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this but i i bought a house in the same neighborhood

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i used to terrorize as a kid and you know it

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was it was rough out of the gate james i'm not

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gonna lie uh but i turned out okay right but

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uh yeah i was that little kid that was terrorizing

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this neighborhood it was so funny when i came

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back all the old folks were like hey i remember

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that kid and like oh my God, he's got two boys

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too. Like there's for sale signs popping up left

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and right, you know, as I was moving in. So,

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but yeah, full circle, man. I mean, you know,

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as soon as I retired and hung up my uniform,

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it kind of got my life back. You know, as a military

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member, you know, you're a government property.

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So they go where you tell you. And once I retired,

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got my life back. My wife actually got us up

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here. And, you know, it's great to be back in

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the neighborhood with my friends that are our

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family, you know, closer to my brother, my sister

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-in -law, my brother -in -law in Pittsburgh.

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um you know my son goes to the university of

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pittsburgh so relatively close to him and my

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youngest son who just graduated um is heading

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off to ruckers to play lacrosse there so really

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excited to be close to him about an hour and

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10 minutes up the road to go watch him play the

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game that he loves so yeah we're really excited

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beautiful what did your parents do as far as

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careers So my dad was a business owner. Yeah,

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he started his own business. He's basically a

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food scientist. So think of like Carvel ice cream,

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like he used to work for Carvel. There's a guy

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with the company up in New York, Perry's Ice

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Cream. He used to work for Perry's up there.

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Tom Perry, his friend from college, Michigan

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State, he owned Perry's Ice Cream. So he worked

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there for a little bit. They were obviously business

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partners. Tom Perry was actually the mayor for

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a little bit up there in the Buffalo area. But

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my dad was heavy in the bakery goods, custard

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business. Still doing it today. My brother bought

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the business from him a few years ago. maybe

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less than 10 years ago and uh my brother still

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keeps on retainer because he's he's the food

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science geek right like my brother's the business

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guy and my dad's the food science geek with the

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organic chemistry background all that stuff so

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he keeps him on retainer to keep him around to

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develop formulas and all that good stuff but

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um yeah so that's what my dad did and my mother

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was Pretty much a full -time mom for the most

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part, from what I recall growing up. Once my

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brother and I got a little older, my brother's

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three and a half years older than I am, she went

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to work for a staffing agency to get part -time

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workers at companies, so on and so forth. She

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did that for quite some time, really enjoyed

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it, and was there for a long time. Once you go

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to a company that has great fabric from a culture

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standpoint, you don't go anywhere else. Truly

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love the owner of that company, LL Staffing Services,

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whatever it's called. And she spent, you know,

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pretty much her entire working career there until,

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you know, actually after I left the nest to go

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to the Naval Academy and was there for a little

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bit. But, yeah, that's a little bit background

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about my parents. And my dad was the entrepreneur

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in the family. So, yep. did you ever have any

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conversations with your dad about the dark side

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of food science you know some of these uh practices

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that are forging addiction through some of our

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food products not not really um you know it's

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just it's just interesting to talk to him about

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um you know just the market in of itself you

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know and just the evolution you know what you're

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talking about of the food industry so on so forth

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Um, but I haven't really delved into the dark

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secrets, so to speak, but, um, you know, probably

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not a great conversation to have because it's

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probably pretty gross, but, uh, um, never, never,

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never dove into that topic with him. What was

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it about your upbringing that caused you to terrorize

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your neighborhood? I think, um, I was just full

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of piss and vinegar, man. I was one of those

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kids that I would literally, again, this neighborhood

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is awesome. Like it's, um, you know, back, you

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know, Born in 1973, so I'm a Gen Xer guy, you

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know. Just wouldn't, you know, leave the house

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at 8 in the morning. Wouldn't come home until

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the lights in the street neighborhood came on.

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Or, you know, I hear my buddies, you know, ringing

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the cowbells for them to come home for dinner.

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And, you know, all my buddies would, you know,

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be leaving. And I'd be like, okay, I guess it's

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time to go, you know. So I was just that kid

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that was always out outside, just, you know.

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doing what boys do you know with other boys just

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causing trouble mischief and you know not anything

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crazy but you know just just hellions on wheels

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that's what we did you know a couple broken bones

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there you know some scraps you know some you

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know some fights at the t -ball you know the

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football field and all that good stuff you know

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just being boys boys being boys right just um

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yeah so it's just that kind of you know, had

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that reputation of just, you know, kind of, you

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know, causing chaos in the neighborhood. But

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that's what boys do, right? Absolutely. You mentioned

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a couple of sports. What kind of sports were

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you playing through the school years? Yeah, so

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I was a big jock growing up. My parents pretty

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much threw everything in the kitchen sink at

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me. And I kind of did the same thing to my kids.

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I'm like, hey, you know, you'll figure it out,

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you know. But I mean, you name it. I did it.

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Basketball, baseball, swimming. um yeah obviously

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later on my career in high school got into the

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combat sports you know the contact sports the

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football the wrestling the lacrosse um you know

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really just i just i just love the competitive

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nature of athletics you know a lot of who i am

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is of my fabric is is from my my sports career

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like you know and even i even talk about this

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a lot you know with um people that come to me

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for advice or mentorship, you know, going into

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the military or what have you, or your leadership,

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what have you like, um, a lot of my. you know,

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when the shit hits the fan out there, like, and

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it does in combat, you know, like I'm sure Jeff

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talked about, you know, like it wasn't really

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the leadership classes of the Naval Academy that

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got me through those hard times. It was like

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my, my, my athletic career, those, those, those,

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the skills that I learned through, you know,

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the mental toughness, the, the adversity, you

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know, all that stuff, persistence, you know,

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just work ethic, you know, that got me through

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those tough times and even like dark times in

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my life, you know? So. I really just I love and

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I'm still involved in today. I still coach as

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a volunteer up at the local high school for the

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football team here. Really love it. It's even

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though I hung up my uniform and. everything like

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that from the military it's my opportunity to

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serve my community and and you know mold future

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leaders you know for you know tomorrow's generation

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and teach these kids life lessons you know that'll

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that'll serve them well later on in life so it's

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just sports are just the breeding ground for

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life lessons and and i try to you know, give

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back in the volunteer coaching aspect, you know,

00:10:46.029 --> 00:10:47.669
with Conestoga High School right up the street

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here. So it's been awesome. And I just love athletics.

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The Navy Football Brotherhood is truly a brotherhood.

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You know, unfortunately, we just lost one of

00:10:55.350 --> 00:10:59.009
our brothers, you know, a few days ago. And the

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Navy Football Brotherhood, I have it here on

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my shirt, but it's an actual 501c3 and the organization

00:11:04.990 --> 00:11:07.840
exists to support. You know, the families that

00:11:07.840 --> 00:11:09.919
are left behind when our brothers pass, what

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have you, whether it be through combat or what

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have you. This gentleman, he was a lot younger

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than me. Didn't know him personally, but he was

00:11:17.539 --> 00:11:19.740
on his daily jog and just had a heart attack

00:11:19.740 --> 00:11:22.159
like unexpectedly. I mean, the shock to that

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family, you know, wife and a couple of kids left

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behind. I mean, I can't even imagine. But, you

00:11:27.500 --> 00:11:29.840
know, we've rallied, you know, the Navy Football

00:11:29.840 --> 00:11:31.779
Brotherhood communities rallied and, you know,

00:11:31.820 --> 00:11:33.539
we spread out to our network to try to get some

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support for that family. And that's that's what

00:11:36.340 --> 00:11:39.240
we exist. Again, it's just the, you know, the

00:11:39.240 --> 00:11:41.899
all the bottom line is the the life lessons that

00:11:41.899 --> 00:11:44.139
come from athletics are just immense. And they've

00:11:44.139 --> 00:11:46.740
done. great wonders for me in my life and in

00:11:46.740 --> 00:11:49.240
my career your working career my military career

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coaching career etc it's just it's foundation

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for me absolutely it's interesting when you hear

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people talking about sports teams you know if

00:11:58.220 --> 00:12:00.720
you're in a certain fire academy together if

00:12:00.720 --> 00:12:03.340
you're in a military group together there's that

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forged camaraderie through shared suffering and

00:12:07.200 --> 00:12:09.460
listening to how passionate you are talking about

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and again even men that you haven't met it's

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like my profession with the 343 that we lost

00:12:14.639 --> 00:12:17.019
in new york if you weren't an fdmy firefighter

00:12:17.019 --> 00:12:18.980
you probably didn't know any of them but you

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feel it and you contrast that to this kind of

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um you know political environment that we're

00:12:25.220 --> 00:12:28.419
in there's this leaning into identity where there's

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no skin in the game whatsoever. And I think this

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is the problem that we're seeing with so much

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divisiveness is if there was a shared suffering,

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a true bond, I don't think we'd have this kind

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of at each other's throats mentality that we

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do at the moment with people identifying with

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a group of people that technically they haven't

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actually invested in. Correct. Yeah, 100 % agree.

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I mean, it's profound, right? You know, like,

00:12:50.860 --> 00:12:53.320
you get it, you know, you're in a very tight

00:12:53.320 --> 00:12:57.980
knit group. And, you know, it's sad for me to

00:12:57.980 --> 00:13:01.139
say this, but like, if you go back to post 9

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-11, like how unified was this country at that

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time? Yeah, like, to me personally, like, having

00:13:08.259 --> 00:13:11.669
served in the military for, you know, 20 plus

00:13:11.669 --> 00:13:14.590
years and and you know even still serving my

00:13:14.590 --> 00:13:17.110
country you know as as a consultant you know

00:13:17.110 --> 00:13:22.190
and um you know um a worker bee um you know contractor

00:13:22.190 --> 00:13:24.730
would have you um you know that flag still means

00:13:24.730 --> 00:13:26.809
something to us but it's it's sad for me to see

00:13:26.809 --> 00:13:29.590
that you know how to your point how divisive

00:13:29.590 --> 00:13:32.269
we are um and how separated we are we're not

00:13:32.269 --> 00:13:35.620
unified anymore And it's sad to say, I think

00:13:35.620 --> 00:13:38.419
it's going to take another 9 -11 type thing to

00:13:38.419 --> 00:13:42.740
unite the country again. But yeah, it's sad to

00:13:42.740 --> 00:13:45.600
see. So there's organizations, I'm sure you've

00:13:45.600 --> 00:13:47.940
heard of like Travis Manion Foundation. They're

00:13:47.940 --> 00:13:50.860
out there doing a lot of great work trying to

00:13:50.860 --> 00:13:56.360
inculcate this culture of brotherhood and camaraderie

00:13:56.360 --> 00:14:00.120
and character in our high schools and schools

00:14:00.120 --> 00:14:02.159
and so on and so forth. It's a very noble effort.

00:14:03.029 --> 00:14:06.909
You know, I think if we just come together as

00:14:06.909 --> 00:14:09.929
a country, we'd be a lot better off. I mean,

00:14:09.950 --> 00:14:15.090
I'm tired of all the conflict and almost like

00:14:15.090 --> 00:14:18.049
rioting and so on. It just drives me insane.

00:14:18.350 --> 00:14:23.029
I didn't serve to watch this stuff. So it's pretty

00:14:23.029 --> 00:14:25.490
sad to your point. Yeah. Well, I mean, especially

00:14:25.490 --> 00:14:27.870
I've made this point recently. If you had the

00:14:27.870 --> 00:14:30.529
World War II generation come back in the time

00:14:30.529 --> 00:14:33.879
machine. What would they think of this? They'd

00:14:33.879 --> 00:14:35.139
shake their heads. I mean, they're rolling in

00:14:35.139 --> 00:14:39.679
their graves. Like I said, it's profound and

00:14:39.679 --> 00:14:44.059
it's unfortunate. But that's one of the reasons

00:14:44.059 --> 00:14:47.480
I don't. doing podcasts like this. I've done

00:14:47.480 --> 00:14:50.620
a couple before, but if my story can help people

00:14:50.620 --> 00:14:56.279
in any way, I'm all for it. I'm happy to share

00:14:56.279 --> 00:14:59.000
my story and answer your questions to do just

00:14:59.000 --> 00:15:01.879
that. Again, I think teamwork makes the dream

00:15:01.879 --> 00:15:04.919
work. If I can provide a little teamwork flair

00:15:04.919 --> 00:15:07.960
to it and miracles happen when you come together,

00:15:08.100 --> 00:15:11.440
hopefully that inspires somebody to do something

00:15:11.440 --> 00:15:14.580
good today. you know, overcome this division

00:15:14.580 --> 00:15:17.080
that we have within our country, then we're all

00:15:17.080 --> 00:15:20.100
better for it, right? Absolutely. I'm working

00:15:20.100 --> 00:15:22.480
on making the last book I wrote into a TV show,

00:15:22.559 --> 00:15:26.360
and that is my absolute focus. And then to kind

00:15:26.360 --> 00:15:28.889
of... use a tongue -in -cheek example the bill

00:15:28.889 --> 00:15:30.669
and ted's excellent adventure film when they

00:15:30.669 --> 00:15:33.230
create a song that brings unity into the world

00:15:33.230 --> 00:15:36.009
it's kind of like that you know we use very devices

00:15:36.009 --> 00:15:38.769
that divided people but what if we flip the script

00:15:38.769 --> 00:15:41.090
what if we use that to put things out there that

00:15:41.090 --> 00:15:43.110
get people look in the mirror and then start

00:15:43.110 --> 00:15:45.129
healing themselves because the root of all this

00:15:45.129 --> 00:15:49.179
trouble is mental health so Correct. 100%. Yep.

00:15:49.500 --> 00:15:52.200
100%. We'll stay on the sports for one more moment.

00:15:52.620 --> 00:15:55.639
I did, you know, team sports, field hockey, funny

00:15:55.639 --> 00:15:57.419
enough, was the biggest one that I did in England,

00:15:57.460 --> 00:15:59.480
but then I was a martial artist too. So you have

00:15:59.480 --> 00:16:01.200
the team sports and you have the individual sports.

00:16:01.379 --> 00:16:03.580
You talked about the team sports and the application

00:16:03.580 --> 00:16:07.779
of, you know, life beyond the pitch. What about

00:16:07.779 --> 00:16:10.120
the impact of the individual sports on your career?

00:16:10.820 --> 00:16:13.470
Yeah. I mean, you're wrestling, right? I mean,

00:16:13.529 --> 00:16:16.009
yeah, it's mano y mano, man. It's you and that

00:16:16.009 --> 00:16:19.649
guy. There's no one to point the finger to, right?

00:16:19.909 --> 00:16:22.389
And me being a heavyweight, because I was always

00:16:22.389 --> 00:16:25.789
a big guy, you know, I was last to the ladder,

00:16:25.950 --> 00:16:27.509
right? So, like, there were plenty of times my

00:16:27.509 --> 00:16:29.470
coach would be like, all right, it doesn't take

00:16:29.470 --> 00:16:31.470
a mathematician to figure this one out, you know?

00:16:31.490 --> 00:16:33.929
Like, you know, all the weight on the shoulders,

00:16:34.029 --> 00:16:36.850
all the weight of the match was on my shoulders.

00:16:36.950 --> 00:16:41.750
So, yeah, I mean, it's just, it's, yeah, I mean.

00:16:42.169 --> 00:16:45.389
that sport in and of itself was, and I didn't

00:16:45.389 --> 00:16:47.470
start doing it until like my sophomore year in

00:16:47.470 --> 00:16:50.169
high school. Um, it's a funny story behind that.

00:16:50.230 --> 00:16:52.309
You know, again, I shocked my whole life, you

00:16:52.309 --> 00:16:56.289
know, did sport X, Y, Z, and I played basketball

00:16:56.289 --> 00:16:58.190
for the longest time. And it got to a point where

00:16:58.190 --> 00:16:59.649
I just kind of fell out of love with the sport.

00:17:00.149 --> 00:17:02.590
Um, so it was like my ninth grade year and, you

00:17:02.590 --> 00:17:04.589
know, my parents raised me to never quit anything,

00:17:04.710 --> 00:17:06.430
right? Like if you commit to something, you finish

00:17:06.430 --> 00:17:09.549
it, finish. And so I had a conversation with

00:17:09.549 --> 00:17:12.539
my parents. Uh, I think my brother was, Maybe

00:17:12.539 --> 00:17:14.859
he was in college or – yeah, he might have been

00:17:14.859 --> 00:17:18.319
in college by that point. But he's like – I told

00:17:18.319 --> 00:17:21.240
my parents, I said, hey, I'm kind of falling

00:17:21.240 --> 00:17:23.579
out of love with basketball. I'm not going to

00:17:23.579 --> 00:17:26.619
play it next year. And my dad's like, okay, well,

00:17:26.660 --> 00:17:27.839
what are you going to do? And I'm like, I'm just

00:17:27.839 --> 00:17:31.880
going to live for football and lacrosse and work

00:17:31.880 --> 00:17:33.519
out for football and lacrosse. He's like, not

00:17:33.519 --> 00:17:36.019
an option. You will do something. So I had to

00:17:36.019 --> 00:17:39.549
figure it out. So it's funny. I used to make

00:17:39.549 --> 00:17:41.890
fun of the wrestler, but I went out and tried

00:17:41.890 --> 00:17:44.009
it. And I'm like, this is pretty cool. You can

00:17:44.009 --> 00:17:45.750
actually hurt people and get away with it. You

00:17:45.750 --> 00:17:50.230
know, so I really enjoyed it. You know, again,

00:17:50.430 --> 00:17:53.869
it's the work ethic, the drive, the persistence,

00:17:54.190 --> 00:17:57.630
just the mental toughness, right? Like just to

00:17:57.630 --> 00:18:00.450
get you through those tough times, like those

00:18:00.450 --> 00:18:04.539
individual sports really. you know, shape you

00:18:04.539 --> 00:18:06.839
as a person a hundred percent. Cause it's, there's

00:18:06.839 --> 00:18:08.880
really, again, there's no one else to point at

00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:11.920
it's you and you only, it's like, you can't blame

00:18:11.920 --> 00:18:15.720
anything on anybody. So, um, yeah, it's, it's

00:18:15.720 --> 00:18:17.480
definitely a game changer for sure. I, there's

00:18:17.480 --> 00:18:19.359
other sports I like swimming, you know, you're

00:18:19.359 --> 00:18:21.160
pretty individual. Yeah. You do the individual

00:18:21.160 --> 00:18:23.519
medleys, the, you know, obviously the relays,

00:18:23.559 --> 00:18:25.180
but if you're like the last one in the real,

00:18:25.220 --> 00:18:27.339
my brother was a big swimmer. He, he swam at

00:18:27.339 --> 00:18:30.380
Lehigh division one, division one, double a pretty

00:18:30.380 --> 00:18:36.680
competitive. Um, so, um, Yeah, it's definitely,

00:18:37.119 --> 00:18:39.400
you know, I call it an arrow in the quiver for

00:18:39.400 --> 00:18:41.359
sure, playing those individual sports, you know,

00:18:41.359 --> 00:18:44.559
for life, 100%. Yeah, absolutely. It's interesting

00:18:44.559 --> 00:18:48.180
even from the coach's perspective, the psychologist's

00:18:48.180 --> 00:18:51.180
perspective, if you look at multi -sport athletes,

00:18:51.579 --> 00:18:54.420
you know, when we're young, you avoid burnout,

00:18:54.599 --> 00:18:56.920
you avoid repetitive injuries, I mean, all these

00:18:56.920 --> 00:18:59.240
things. But, you know, you can be on a team and

00:18:59.240 --> 00:19:01.819
constantly blame other people. But as you know,

00:19:01.859 --> 00:19:04.880
when you're on a mat, you can blame whoever you

00:19:04.880 --> 00:19:06.740
want but you were the one that lost i think there's

00:19:06.740 --> 00:19:09.500
a lot of uh humility forged in individual sports

00:19:09.500 --> 00:19:14.559
yeah 100 100 like in and you know i would talk

00:19:14.559 --> 00:19:16.079
about my brother for a second because he's kind

00:19:16.079 --> 00:19:19.720
of a hero in my mind but um phenomenal swimmer

00:19:19.720 --> 00:19:21.309
probably could have been in the Probably could

00:19:21.309 --> 00:19:23.910
have gone to the Olympics, but he didn't want

00:19:23.910 --> 00:19:27.309
to grow gills and all that stuff. He was phenomenal.

00:19:28.230 --> 00:19:30.470
He was getting recruited heavily by all Division

00:19:30.470 --> 00:19:32.789
I sports, but he kind of came to a sense. He's

00:19:32.789 --> 00:19:35.670
like, hey, I still want to swim competitively,

00:19:35.670 --> 00:19:38.069
but I want to have a life. I want to be able

00:19:38.069 --> 00:19:41.660
to join a fraternity. I know from playing Division

00:19:41.660 --> 00:19:44.980
I football, it's a job. And Division I anything

00:19:44.980 --> 00:19:47.079
is a job. And I told my younger son that, what

00:19:47.079 --> 00:19:48.759
to expect, so on and so forth, because he's going

00:19:48.759 --> 00:19:51.900
to go play at Rutgers. So my brother, thankfully.

00:19:53.660 --> 00:19:55.539
knew that he didn't want to do that he wanted

00:19:55.539 --> 00:19:57.460
to have a life you know he still swam competitively

00:19:57.460 --> 00:20:00.700
won double a lehigh um but long story short he

00:20:00.700 --> 00:20:03.279
uh developed scoliosis kind of runs in our family

00:20:03.279 --> 00:20:06.319
my grandmother had it um scoliosis is like the

00:20:06.319 --> 00:20:09.259
curvature of your back um he got it so badly

00:20:09.259 --> 00:20:12.079
he had a 64 degree curve in his back i mean if

00:20:12.079 --> 00:20:13.940
you saw the x -ray james it was literally like

00:20:13.940 --> 00:20:18.420
an s it was nasty um he had to have a surgery

00:20:18.420 --> 00:20:23.770
his you know freshman year in college um Lost,

00:20:23.770 --> 00:20:26.750
I can't, close to 100 pounds. I mean, literally,

00:20:26.750 --> 00:20:28.490
it was like a beanpole. I mean, granted, swimmers

00:20:28.490 --> 00:20:32.549
are usually very just fit athletes, right? You

00:20:32.549 --> 00:20:35.410
know, the V -backs and everything. I mean, he

00:20:35.410 --> 00:20:36.869
literally was like a beanpole. It was really

00:20:36.869 --> 00:20:39.609
sad to see. Long story short, he developed a

00:20:39.609 --> 00:20:41.890
really bad infection in his bone graft area in

00:20:41.890 --> 00:20:45.529
his hip, and we were here at the hospital, and

00:20:45.529 --> 00:20:49.960
they couldn't figure out. what bacteria it was,

00:20:49.960 --> 00:20:52.519
what have you. Luckily, my grandfather was, he

00:20:52.519 --> 00:20:54.599
used to work for Merck. He was a scientist, you

00:20:54.599 --> 00:20:57.900
know, he helped them develop, you know, the cure

00:20:57.900 --> 00:20:59.980
for whatever that bacteria was that was really

00:20:59.980 --> 00:21:03.400
hurting my brother. Got him back on his, on his.

00:21:04.650 --> 00:21:07.450
His feet, again, it was shady for a little bit.

00:21:07.490 --> 00:21:10.210
We were really concerned. But when it came to

00:21:10.210 --> 00:21:11.990
his back and everything like that, the doctors

00:21:11.990 --> 00:21:13.569
were like, yeah, you're never going to swim again.

00:21:13.890 --> 00:21:15.390
And, you know, it's going to take you forever

00:21:15.390 --> 00:21:18.809
to get back in your feet. And just all the naysayers.

00:21:18.809 --> 00:21:20.990
And my brother's like, dude, screw you. Watch

00:21:20.990 --> 00:21:24.349
me. And he did. I mean, he went on in his career

00:21:24.349 --> 00:21:26.809
at Lehigh, was, you know, captain, this and that.

00:21:27.440 --> 00:21:30.099
Broke all sorts of records and, you know, just

00:21:30.099 --> 00:21:32.819
a source of inspiration for me. Like, you know,

00:21:32.819 --> 00:21:34.599
champions, right? You get knocked down, dude,

00:21:34.660 --> 00:21:36.539
you get back up and you get into the ring, right?

00:21:36.640 --> 00:21:40.180
Like, and I love proving people wrong. There's

00:21:40.180 --> 00:21:43.819
just, I can, we'll probably get onto it at, you

00:21:43.819 --> 00:21:46.440
know, my journey to the Naval Academy. But yeah,

00:21:46.539 --> 00:21:50.799
my brother was just a good source of, it was

00:21:50.799 --> 00:21:53.000
a success story for me to like, hey man, don't.

00:21:53.390 --> 00:21:55.490
you know, avoid the naysayers and don't let anybody

00:21:55.490 --> 00:21:57.150
tell you what you can or can't do. That's on

00:21:57.150 --> 00:21:59.410
you, you know, a hundred percent. Just cool little

00:21:59.410 --> 00:22:01.690
story. I'd share that real fast. Yeah, no, I'm

00:22:01.690 --> 00:22:03.569
glad you did. Thank you. Yeah. Well, touching

00:22:03.569 --> 00:22:06.269
on the Naval Academy then in high school, were

00:22:06.269 --> 00:22:08.490
you dreaming of the military specifically, or

00:22:08.490 --> 00:22:10.670
was that more of a sporting journey that took

00:22:10.670 --> 00:22:14.650
you there? Both. So kind of a cool story. Um,

00:22:14.910 --> 00:22:17.450
I actually knew I wanted to go to Naval Academy

00:22:17.450 --> 00:22:20.210
when I was like 11, which is very unusual. Um,

00:22:20.390 --> 00:22:23.400
a lot of people hit me up. Especially being a

00:22:23.400 --> 00:22:26.160
coach, like, hey, can you talk to my son about

00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:33.019
this and that? My story is very unique. It's

00:22:33.019 --> 00:22:38.799
just very unique. But long story short, my mom's

00:22:38.799 --> 00:22:41.359
cousin, we have this family that lives out in

00:22:41.359 --> 00:22:43.359
California. We don't see them a lot, obviously,

00:22:43.460 --> 00:22:48.279
just because of the distance between us. He graduated

00:22:48.279 --> 00:22:52.259
there in 63, 65, I think. So he was a Naval Academy

00:22:52.259 --> 00:22:55.180
graduate. Again, they live out in California.

00:22:55.339 --> 00:22:57.400
You don't see them a lot. I was growing up. I

00:22:57.400 --> 00:23:01.759
was about 11 years old. My dad went to Michigan

00:23:01.759 --> 00:23:03.940
State University. Michigan State was playing

00:23:03.940 --> 00:23:09.460
USC in the Rose Bowl. So my parents, we would

00:23:09.460 --> 00:23:12.779
take a lot of trips. Give memories, right? You

00:23:12.779 --> 00:23:15.039
can give tangible things to your kids, but my

00:23:15.039 --> 00:23:17.750
parents were really big on. giving memories from

00:23:17.750 --> 00:23:19.509
our brother and I, and we're very thankful for

00:23:19.509 --> 00:23:24.730
that. So we went out for the Rose Bowl and had

00:23:24.730 --> 00:23:28.970
a great time out there. And so we meet the family

00:23:28.970 --> 00:23:31.390
out there. And, you know, again, I'm 11, 12,

00:23:31.609 --> 00:23:33.490
and I kind of know what's going on. I'm not a

00:23:33.490 --> 00:23:35.609
little kid anymore. And, you know, I'm at the

00:23:35.609 --> 00:23:38.529
dinner table. I'm not wearing my Naval Academy

00:23:38.529 --> 00:23:41.029
ring right now, but it's actually cracked. But

00:23:41.029 --> 00:23:44.170
I noticed this ring that. you know, my mom's

00:23:44.170 --> 00:23:46.769
cousin was wearing and, uh, I'm like, Hey, great.

00:23:46.829 --> 00:23:48.329
What's, what's that ring? And he's like, Oh,

00:23:48.329 --> 00:23:49.890
it's my, my Naval Academy ring. I was like, Hey,

00:23:49.890 --> 00:23:52.589
can I see it? And I'm gives it to me. And I look

00:23:52.589 --> 00:23:54.589
at it and I asked him a couple of questions about

00:23:54.589 --> 00:23:57.309
it. You know, he's indulging my questions again.

00:23:57.349 --> 00:24:00.130
I'm 11, 12 years old. And, um, he's like, you

00:24:00.130 --> 00:24:01.450
know, when we get back to the house, I'll, I'll

00:24:01.450 --> 00:24:03.650
show you, you know, something. And so we get

00:24:03.650 --> 00:24:04.990
back to his house. He gives him like a little

00:24:04.990 --> 00:24:07.809
coffee table book on the U S Naval Academy. I

00:24:07.809 --> 00:24:10.049
thumbed through it and like for like an hour

00:24:10.049 --> 00:24:12.069
and a half hour, I put it down. I'm like, that's

00:24:12.069 --> 00:24:14.279
where I'm going to school. It was a done deal

00:24:14.279 --> 00:24:18.680
for me. I was blown away by just the image, the

00:24:18.680 --> 00:24:22.799
sense of camaraderie, service. It just kind of

00:24:22.799 --> 00:24:25.299
runs in my blood. Red, white, and blue runs in

00:24:25.299 --> 00:24:28.799
my veins. So at a very young age, I knew I was

00:24:28.799 --> 00:24:33.160
hell or hell bent on going there. Fast forward

00:24:33.160 --> 00:24:38.119
to my recruiting and all that stuff, I was a

00:24:38.119 --> 00:24:40.019
really good wrestler, two -time state champ.

00:24:40.559 --> 00:24:42.920
Um, so I was not only getting recruited for football,

00:24:43.059 --> 00:24:44.819
but I was getting recruited for wrestling as

00:24:44.819 --> 00:24:48.200
well. Um, but again, I knew I wanted to, where

00:24:48.200 --> 00:24:50.359
I wanted to go. I was closing a lot of doors.

00:24:50.460 --> 00:24:53.519
My dad was flipping out and I had to have one

00:24:53.519 --> 00:24:55.000
of those discussions like, dude, it's not your

00:24:55.000 --> 00:24:56.880
flipping life. Like, but the hell I know what

00:24:56.880 --> 00:25:02.480
I'm doing. Um, and you know, I, I really leaned

00:25:02.480 --> 00:25:03.960
in heavily and it's just, you know, this kind

00:25:03.960 --> 00:25:06.700
of goes to like taking responsibility and ownership

00:25:06.700 --> 00:25:10.809
over your own life and your own. Yo. chart in

00:25:10.809 --> 00:25:16.710
in in life and uh you know i played for now i'm

00:25:16.710 --> 00:25:18.990
prep here which is jock school you know pretty

00:25:18.990 --> 00:25:22.369
good in football ice hockey lacrosse baseball

00:25:22.369 --> 00:25:26.309
um and i played on the as a freshman i played

00:25:26.309 --> 00:25:29.029
on the offensive side of the ball offensive line

00:25:29.029 --> 00:25:30.609
and like sophomore year i knew i was gonna play

00:25:30.609 --> 00:25:33.730
both sides of the ball um so i took it upon myself

00:25:33.730 --> 00:25:37.759
to uh I scheduled a meeting with Gamp Pellegrini.

00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:39.700
He was my head coach at the time, rest in peace.

00:25:39.960 --> 00:25:42.839
He passed away a few years ago. And the assistant

00:25:42.839 --> 00:25:46.460
head coach, Joe Sells. Coach Gamp was a prior

00:25:46.460 --> 00:25:50.019
Marine. Once a Marine, always a Marine. And Joe

00:25:50.019 --> 00:25:53.619
Sells was an Army guy. He was in Vietnam. So

00:25:53.619 --> 00:25:55.720
I scheduled this meeting with him, and I basically

00:25:55.720 --> 00:25:58.349
told him, I said, Coach, I want to play football

00:25:58.349 --> 00:26:00.130
at the Naval Academy. You want me to eat lima

00:26:00.130 --> 00:26:02.029
beans? I'll eat lima beans. Tell me what to do.

00:26:03.210 --> 00:26:06.730
And the leadership in them just kind of kicked

00:26:06.730 --> 00:26:11.450
in. They saw the intense desire for me based

00:26:11.450 --> 00:26:13.630
on that meeting, me being proactive, having that

00:26:13.630 --> 00:26:15.769
meeting with them, and they were like, hey, we're

00:26:15.769 --> 00:26:19.160
going to take care of this guy. they go do their

00:26:19.160 --> 00:26:21.380
thing. And next thing I know, these coaches from

00:26:21.380 --> 00:26:23.759
Navy are showing up at my lacrosse games, my

00:26:23.759 --> 00:26:25.900
wrestling matches and so on and so forth. You

00:26:25.900 --> 00:26:28.599
know, again, multi -sport athlete, you know,

00:26:28.599 --> 00:26:31.420
and just went full tilt into it. And like, again,

00:26:31.460 --> 00:26:33.640
I closed a lot of doors, a lot of opportunities

00:26:33.640 --> 00:26:36.240
with a lot of great universities, but I just

00:26:36.240 --> 00:26:40.039
knew Navy was a place for me to go. And I only

00:26:40.039 --> 00:26:41.640
applied to one other school, to be honest with

00:26:41.640 --> 00:26:44.339
you. So it was like two schools, Navy and, you

00:26:44.339 --> 00:26:45.960
know, I think it was Colgate was my safe school,

00:26:46.019 --> 00:26:50.769
but that was it. And, you know, but I knew what

00:26:50.769 --> 00:26:53.289
I wanted, went after it like a pit bull and did

00:26:53.289 --> 00:26:56.430
certain things to kind of make that dream come

00:26:56.430 --> 00:26:59.970
a reality. And, you know, just very thankful

00:26:59.970 --> 00:27:03.210
to Coach Camp and Coach Sells for, you know,

00:27:03.210 --> 00:27:05.190
being enablers along the way. I mean, you have,

00:27:05.309 --> 00:27:07.930
you know, we all, you know, can make things happen

00:27:07.930 --> 00:27:10.430
on our own, but you have to have support structure,

00:27:10.509 --> 00:27:12.710
you know, behind you, you know, to help you.

00:27:13.009 --> 00:27:16.289
And they were significant enablers in making

00:27:16.289 --> 00:27:18.750
that dream. become a reality for me. And I'm

00:27:18.750 --> 00:27:21.589
eternally grateful to both of them. And yeah,

00:27:21.849 --> 00:27:23.910
it was just a, it's kind of a unique story. I

00:27:23.910 --> 00:27:25.890
mean, I just, I knew at a young age, I want to

00:27:25.890 --> 00:27:27.769
go there and just, you know, like I said, it

00:27:27.769 --> 00:27:30.009
just closed a lot of doors, but I just, it all

00:27:30.009 --> 00:27:31.529
worked out and they wanted me to wrestle there

00:27:31.529 --> 00:27:33.089
too. And I told the rest of the coaches like,

00:27:33.190 --> 00:27:35.670
yeah, I'm not doing two division one sports back

00:27:35.670 --> 00:27:37.529
to back. That's crazy. I will, I will definitely

00:27:37.529 --> 00:27:40.130
fail the hell out of that place. So just ended

00:27:40.130 --> 00:27:42.890
up playing football there and no regrets, you

00:27:42.890 --> 00:27:45.410
know, thoroughly loved it and got a ton of friends.

00:27:46.250 --> 00:27:49.210
From there, both football players and non -football

00:27:49.210 --> 00:27:52.849
players. But it was a unique story. A lot of

00:27:52.849 --> 00:27:54.670
people don't realize they want to go to the caddies

00:27:54.670 --> 00:27:56.569
until later in life. I just happened to know

00:27:56.569 --> 00:27:59.470
11 and 12 because my mom's cousin went there.

00:28:00.769 --> 00:28:05.410
It kind of sparked a fire. Did you have your

00:28:05.410 --> 00:28:10.490
eyes set on the NFL after that? No. It's really

00:28:10.490 --> 00:28:15.279
hard to do that. You've got to apply for a waiver

00:28:15.279 --> 00:28:18.599
through the Secretary of the Navy to do that.

00:28:18.740 --> 00:28:24.039
So it never really was a goal for me. I wanted

00:28:24.039 --> 00:28:26.279
to serve that flag. I wanted to serve my country.

00:28:26.539 --> 00:28:29.940
I'm very passionate about leadership. I was a

00:28:29.940 --> 00:28:34.410
tri -captain my senior year in high school. Still

00:28:34.410 --> 00:28:36.029
very passionate about leadership, obviously.

00:28:36.089 --> 00:28:39.970
I still coach football and stuff like that. I've

00:28:39.970 --> 00:28:42.890
coached throughout my entire life, pretty much,

00:28:42.910 --> 00:28:44.569
helping my kids. But then it got to a point where

00:28:44.569 --> 00:28:47.369
my kids, like 12 or 11, like 12 or 13, I was

00:28:47.369 --> 00:28:48.950
like, hey, you're someone else's problem. I'm

00:28:48.950 --> 00:28:52.269
not going to coach you anymore. But, yeah, I

00:28:52.269 --> 00:28:54.390
mean, it's just leadership's a game changer,

00:28:54.410 --> 00:28:57.630
right? Like, you know, it makes or breaks a company,

00:28:57.769 --> 00:29:01.339
makes or breaks a country. Um, so on and so forth.

00:29:01.420 --> 00:29:03.140
I mean, it's just, it's really important and

00:29:03.140 --> 00:29:05.460
I'm real passionate about it. And, you know,

00:29:05.460 --> 00:29:07.680
throughout my career, wherever I went, you know,

00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:10.359
whether it was a specialty in charge in OSI or

00:29:10.359 --> 00:29:13.539
leadership position, wherever, um, I took great,

00:29:13.640 --> 00:29:17.380
um, uh, care of people under my charge, you know,

00:29:17.380 --> 00:29:20.099
because I firmly believe, you know, as a leader,

00:29:20.220 --> 00:29:22.480
um, you got to do little things, right? Like

00:29:22.480 --> 00:29:25.779
bottom line, if you do those things, those little

00:29:25.779 --> 00:29:27.339
things, right. And you take care of your people.

00:29:27.769 --> 00:29:30.029
They'll charge a hill for you, hell or high water,

00:29:30.150 --> 00:29:33.569
you know. Yeah, and I was like, I go back to

00:29:33.569 --> 00:29:36.109
my retirement at the Naval Academy when I retired.

00:29:36.289 --> 00:29:39.289
I was literally in tears because people flew

00:29:39.289 --> 00:29:43.230
like across the country on their own dime to

00:29:43.230 --> 00:29:45.069
come to my retirement ceremony. There was like

00:29:45.069 --> 00:29:48.910
150, 170 people there. I mean, I was just blown

00:29:48.910 --> 00:29:51.730
away. I had no idea that this many people were

00:29:51.730 --> 00:29:54.589
going to come, and it wasn't really my superiors.

00:29:55.079 --> 00:29:57.940
it was my, my troops that had worked for me that,

00:29:57.980 --> 00:30:00.059
that I served as a leader, a servant leader,

00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:02.720
um, that showed up in droves and that, that,

00:30:02.779 --> 00:30:04.519
that to me, again, actions speak louder than

00:30:04.519 --> 00:30:06.880
words, you know? So like their actions of coming

00:30:06.880 --> 00:30:09.460
to my retirement ceremony and being there was,

00:30:09.559 --> 00:30:12.220
was just, it was, um, it was humbling. I was,

00:30:12.220 --> 00:30:14.420
I was, like I said, I was in tears and, uh, you

00:30:14.420 --> 00:30:19.740
know, but it's intrinsically, I know I did. the

00:30:19.740 --> 00:30:22.019
right thing by them as a leader. And I, I helped

00:30:22.019 --> 00:30:24.299
set them up for success in their respective lives.

00:30:24.359 --> 00:30:26.559
And, you know, I earned their respect. I mean,

00:30:26.579 --> 00:30:28.079
they wouldn't have came there unless they didn't

00:30:28.079 --> 00:30:30.660
respect me. Right. So I did something right along

00:30:30.660 --> 00:30:33.400
the way when I was leading all these folks. So,

00:30:33.400 --> 00:30:35.859
um, it was very, uh, very overwhelming for me

00:30:35.859 --> 00:30:39.019
that day that I retired for sure. Yeah. I had

00:30:39.019 --> 00:30:41.700
a police chief on the show probably two, three

00:30:41.700 --> 00:30:44.599
years ago now, Christian, Kristen Zeman. Um,

00:30:44.799 --> 00:30:48.470
and what caught my eye was her retirement. party

00:30:48.470 --> 00:30:51.309
and it was an entire like parade not that she

00:30:51.309 --> 00:30:54.509
had put on but all her departments showed up

00:30:54.509 --> 00:30:56.569
to show their respect and i agree we all know

00:30:56.569 --> 00:30:58.390
those guys as well that have the retirement party

00:30:58.390 --> 00:31:01.049
and no one shows up because they were dicks right

00:31:01.049 --> 00:31:03.849
right right don't worry about that my retirement

00:31:03.849 --> 00:31:06.950
like um so i had one of my former troops like

00:31:06.950 --> 00:31:09.630
basically run the whole entire thing because

00:31:09.630 --> 00:31:12.430
i was where was i at the time i was down in florida

00:31:12.430 --> 00:31:15.589
um yeah i was down in florida still and so i

00:31:16.119 --> 00:31:18.259
He was up in the D .C. area, so I kind of made

00:31:18.259 --> 00:31:20.660
him my point man for pulling everything together

00:31:20.660 --> 00:31:24.059
and all that stuff and getting the cake and this

00:31:24.059 --> 00:31:27.299
and that and all this stuff with Shadowbox. So

00:31:27.299 --> 00:31:29.420
I just told him, I said, hey, just save all the

00:31:29.420 --> 00:31:31.460
receipts, whatever. I'll set up with you afterwards.

00:31:31.960 --> 00:31:34.579
He said, all right, no problem, boss. So we do

00:31:34.579 --> 00:31:38.019
the retirement. I had no prepared speech. I just

00:31:38.019 --> 00:31:39.720
kind of spoke from the heart at the end and just,

00:31:39.759 --> 00:31:42.779
you know, really just laid it all out there.

00:31:44.029 --> 00:31:47.269
Go to the reception, had a great time, and I

00:31:47.269 --> 00:31:49.670
go up to him afterwards. I was like, hey, Vata,

00:31:49.789 --> 00:31:52.690
what's the damage? He's like, boss, you're good

00:31:52.690 --> 00:31:53.950
to go. I'm like, what do you mean? I was like,

00:31:54.049 --> 00:31:56.490
it's like $2 ,000 of expenses. I'm not an idiot.

00:31:56.630 --> 00:32:00.289
I did add it up, the dollars and cents. He's

00:32:00.289 --> 00:32:02.569
like, boss, you're good. He's like, I took collections

00:32:02.569 --> 00:32:04.890
from everybody. He's like, you're good. He's

00:32:04.890 --> 00:32:06.390
like, in fact, we got some left over. Let's go

00:32:06.390 --> 00:32:08.049
out, hit the town, and have a good time. That

00:32:08.049 --> 00:32:10.809
was even humbling. I started to cry right then

00:32:10.809 --> 00:32:14.599
and there, too. they wouldn't have done that

00:32:14.599 --> 00:32:16.740
if they didn't now obviously respect me and think

00:32:16.740 --> 00:32:19.500
highly of me. So that was another teary moment

00:32:19.500 --> 00:32:25.339
that day for sure. Yeah. Why is it, do you think

00:32:25.339 --> 00:32:27.980
that in first responder agencies and some first

00:32:27.980 --> 00:32:31.079
responder agencies in military units in, as we

00:32:31.079 --> 00:32:34.799
touched on, you know, states, even nations, that

00:32:34.799 --> 00:32:37.839
humility and the servant leader doesn't seem

00:32:37.839 --> 00:32:41.259
to be revered that, you know, ego narcissism

00:32:41.259 --> 00:32:43.119
seems to almost be celebrated at the moment.

00:32:44.140 --> 00:32:46.160
It's a good question because I think it's just,

00:32:46.200 --> 00:32:50.079
you know, people like us are, we're not, you

00:32:50.079 --> 00:32:53.000
know, we're humble. We're not chess beaters,

00:32:53.000 --> 00:32:56.900
right? Like, so it's not like, look at me, you

00:32:56.900 --> 00:33:02.440
know, you just silent warriors, I guess. You

00:33:02.440 --> 00:33:06.980
know, I guess funny thing you touch on that because

00:33:06.980 --> 00:33:10.380
after my retirement ceremony. My sister -in -law,

00:33:10.559 --> 00:33:12.619
who I've known throughout my entire military

00:33:12.619 --> 00:33:16.660
career, you know, comes up to me and she's bawling.

00:33:16.660 --> 00:33:20.859
And she's like, Hunter, I had no idea you did

00:33:20.859 --> 00:33:23.819
all that stuff. And I'm like, well, I don't just

00:33:23.819 --> 00:33:25.980
be. I'm a humble guy. I'm an offensive lineman.

00:33:26.000 --> 00:33:27.599
I get in the trench and I do work and I don't

00:33:27.599 --> 00:33:29.279
look for credit. You know, like that's just what

00:33:29.279 --> 00:33:36.119
I do, you know. But, yeah, the officiating presiding

00:33:36.119 --> 00:33:41.349
officer, my. My retirement was actually still

00:33:41.349 --> 00:33:43.970
a very good friend of mine. He's the U .S. Marshal

00:33:43.970 --> 00:33:45.410
for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania. So

00:33:45.410 --> 00:33:49.170
he was relatively close to me, but he was very

00:33:49.170 --> 00:33:51.269
pivotal in getting me into OSI out of the Naval

00:33:51.269 --> 00:33:53.569
Academy because coming out of the Naval Academy,

00:33:53.609 --> 00:33:55.690
cross -commissioning into the Air Force in and

00:33:55.690 --> 00:33:58.950
of itself is very – that's probably another story

00:33:58.950 --> 00:34:03.490
we can touch on, but it's very hard to do. But

00:34:03.490 --> 00:34:06.480
I did my thing, pit bull. did my due diligence,

00:34:06.740 --> 00:34:09.500
you know, so on and so forth. And lo and behold,

00:34:09.659 --> 00:34:13.219
he, he, he, he came to interview me for, to get

00:34:13.219 --> 00:34:16.400
an OSI and, you know, he got me in and, and,

00:34:16.400 --> 00:34:18.840
you know, he was obviously a mentor of mine throughout

00:34:18.840 --> 00:34:21.380
my entire career. And, you know, it was, it was

00:34:21.380 --> 00:34:23.539
great to have him be the presiding officer at

00:34:23.539 --> 00:34:25.940
my retirement. And, you know, it was just a,

00:34:25.940 --> 00:34:30.599
it was a really, really, really great day. You

00:34:30.599 --> 00:34:33.179
know, that, that. I mean, I can go ahead and

00:34:33.179 --> 00:34:35.780
talk about that story if you want. Yeah, let's

00:34:35.780 --> 00:34:39.420
get the intelligence side. Yeah, so crossing

00:34:39.420 --> 00:34:44.719
over to the Air Force from the Naval Academy.

00:34:45.500 --> 00:34:47.920
In my case, I went to prep school for a year

00:34:47.920 --> 00:34:50.300
up in Newport, Rhode Island. So the Navy looks

00:34:50.300 --> 00:34:51.960
at it like, hey, we just put you through school

00:34:51.960 --> 00:34:54.019
for five years. Why do you want to leave? Well,

00:34:54.019 --> 00:34:55.760
you got to have a pretty compelling story to

00:34:55.760 --> 00:35:01.760
do that to allow them to let you do it. My senior

00:35:01.760 --> 00:35:04.340
year in high school, I did an internship at a

00:35:04.340 --> 00:35:06.420
local police department. Again, I gravitated

00:35:06.420 --> 00:35:09.360
to the teamwork aspect of the police department,

00:35:09.460 --> 00:35:11.980
working together, homicide units, so on and so

00:35:11.980 --> 00:35:13.800
forth. It was just really cool and type A type

00:35:13.800 --> 00:35:17.239
people. So I kind of gravitated to that. So fast

00:35:17.239 --> 00:35:21.679
forward, NCIS, I'm sure you know the TV show.

00:35:22.039 --> 00:35:24.360
They obviously have an office on base there at

00:35:24.360 --> 00:35:27.599
the Naval Academy. So I go there, again, proactively.

00:35:28.209 --> 00:35:29.789
I'm a pit bull. I'm like, hey, this is what I

00:35:29.789 --> 00:35:32.230
want to do. Knock on their door. I think it was

00:35:32.230 --> 00:35:35.369
my junior year. Ended up talking to them for

00:35:35.369 --> 00:35:37.110
three hours. They're like, hey, give us a call

00:35:37.110 --> 00:35:40.949
when you get out. Love to have you join us. I'm

00:35:40.949 --> 00:35:41.989
like, what do you mean when I get out of the

00:35:41.989 --> 00:35:43.610
Navy? They're like, well, we can't bring you

00:35:43.610 --> 00:35:46.429
straight in as an active duty military guy. We're

00:35:46.429 --> 00:35:48.889
an all -civilian federal agency. I was like,

00:35:48.889 --> 00:35:50.969
oh, my God. I was like, I just wasted three hours

00:35:50.969 --> 00:35:52.389
of my time with you people. I was like, I don't

00:35:52.389 --> 00:35:54.449
have a lot of time. It's the reason why I'm here.

00:35:54.969 --> 00:35:58.369
Yeah, I'm a damn TV show. Yeah, yeah. I'm like,

00:35:58.409 --> 00:36:00.989
man. And so I was like, all right, that's out.

00:36:01.250 --> 00:36:04.610
Then I knew the Army had, you know, CID, Criminal

00:36:04.610 --> 00:36:06.789
Investigations Division. My dad was Army. He's

00:36:06.789 --> 00:36:08.369
like, you got Army, I'll break your legs. I was

00:36:08.369 --> 00:36:10.730
like, hey, that's out, you know. And then I started

00:36:10.730 --> 00:36:12.789
looking, you know, hey, this Air Force has to

00:36:12.789 --> 00:36:14.570
have some sort of agency. And I stumbled across

00:36:14.570 --> 00:36:17.269
OSI. And, you know, that's when I decided to,

00:36:17.389 --> 00:36:20.769
you know, venture and go after the cross commissioning

00:36:20.769 --> 00:36:24.530
in the Air Force. You know, so going into senior

00:36:24.530 --> 00:36:27.809
year, they have. they gather all the classes

00:36:27.809 --> 00:36:31.190
in the alumni hall. So it was a whole senior

00:36:31.190 --> 00:36:34.210
class, you know, superintendent speaks, commandant

00:36:34.210 --> 00:36:36.090
speaks. And they said, Hey, if anybody's interested

00:36:36.090 --> 00:36:38.150
in transferring to the army or air force, come

00:36:38.150 --> 00:36:40.469
down here, meet with the lieutenant colonels

00:36:40.469 --> 00:36:43.510
from the army and air force down here. So I go

00:36:43.510 --> 00:36:45.150
down to the basketball court and there's like

00:36:45.150 --> 00:36:47.929
a hundred guys that want to like guys and gals

00:36:47.929 --> 00:36:50.750
that want to, you know, transfer to the air force.

00:36:50.849 --> 00:36:53.679
Like, and I'm like, oh my god and like it's it's

00:36:53.679 --> 00:36:55.340
competitive and i'm like man there's no way i'm

00:36:55.340 --> 00:36:57.099
gonna be able to compete with all these smart

00:36:57.099 --> 00:36:59.139
people i wasn't lighting up the classroom right

00:36:59.139 --> 00:37:01.800
like i was playing the division one sport was

00:37:01.800 --> 00:37:04.599
a job in itself i mean i did okay two eight one

00:37:04.599 --> 00:37:07.300
out of there i think but you know i wasn't like

00:37:07.300 --> 00:37:09.619
lighting it up with a's or anything like that

00:37:09.619 --> 00:37:12.840
so they have a meeting subsequent meeting lieutenant

00:37:12.840 --> 00:37:14.699
colonel has a meeting says hey we're gonna meet

00:37:14.699 --> 00:37:18.219
here um about I don't know, 20 people dropped

00:37:18.219 --> 00:37:20.440
off. So he does this a couple times. So by the

00:37:20.440 --> 00:37:23.239
third time, hey, let's just see who's really

00:37:23.239 --> 00:37:26.400
passionate about this. We'll come to all these

00:37:26.400 --> 00:37:28.519
meetings. It's kind of a natural weeding out

00:37:28.519 --> 00:37:30.320
process. So it finally got to like the third

00:37:30.320 --> 00:37:33.780
iteration of this. It slimmed down to about 60,

00:37:33.920 --> 00:37:37.099
65 people. He goes, he gets up there and he's

00:37:37.099 --> 00:37:38.719
like, all right, all you guys have any aspirations

00:37:38.719 --> 00:37:40.480
of flying to the Air Force? He's like, you might

00:37:40.480 --> 00:37:42.159
as well leave right now because it ain't happening.

00:37:42.699 --> 00:37:44.699
And that cleared out about half the room. So

00:37:44.699 --> 00:37:47.340
I was like 33, 35 people. And I looked around.

00:37:47.440 --> 00:37:49.039
I'm like, all right, I might be able to compete

00:37:49.039 --> 00:37:52.480
with these people. You know, because it's it's

00:37:52.480 --> 00:37:55.199
it's very competitive. So go through it. You

00:37:55.199 --> 00:37:56.699
know, they give you this paperwork. You got to

00:37:56.699 --> 00:37:59.780
do all this stuff. And then your bottom line

00:37:59.780 --> 00:38:02.800
is you've got to research the career fields that

00:38:02.800 --> 00:38:05.280
you're interested in. So like my top three were

00:38:05.280 --> 00:38:09.880
OSI, you know, security forces and then. um intelligence

00:38:09.880 --> 00:38:13.139
in the air force so you know hop in the car you

00:38:13.139 --> 00:38:16.179
know go to the pentagon you know you start networking

00:38:16.179 --> 00:38:18.619
go to andrews knock on the gate hey i want to

00:38:18.619 --> 00:38:21.559
do this you know can and i just do my thing just

00:38:21.559 --> 00:38:23.500
being proactive a go -getter if i want to make

00:38:23.500 --> 00:38:25.820
this happen i got to go make it happen so um

00:38:25.820 --> 00:38:28.159
start doing some shadowing stuff this and that

00:38:28.159 --> 00:38:30.659
meet some agents meet some cops meet some intel

00:38:30.659 --> 00:38:34.239
people learn about the career fields and um so

00:38:34.239 --> 00:38:38.860
35 of us ended up going to like interview slash

00:38:38.860 --> 00:38:41.559
murder board i'll call it there was three out

00:38:41.559 --> 00:38:43.679
of the four services represented so you had every

00:38:43.679 --> 00:38:45.619
service there represented except the army so

00:38:45.619 --> 00:38:48.679
there's like no bs in anybody there's lieutenant

00:38:48.679 --> 00:38:51.619
colonels in there there's colonels there's majors

00:38:51.619 --> 00:38:55.079
i mean you're not bs in anybody and uh you know

00:38:55.079 --> 00:38:58.219
so they basically go down hey like your top three

00:38:58.219 --> 00:39:01.349
hey osi tell me about osi you know what would

00:39:01.349 --> 00:39:04.449
you be doing as an OSI and agent? What would

00:39:04.449 --> 00:39:06.590
you be doing with security forces, Intel? Like

00:39:06.590 --> 00:39:08.849
if you didn't know your stuff, you were out like,

00:39:08.969 --> 00:39:11.110
okay, this guy's not serious or a gal is not

00:39:11.110 --> 00:39:13.949
serious about it. And so, you know, you had to

00:39:13.949 --> 00:39:16.489
do your due diligence and be able to answer those

00:39:16.489 --> 00:39:20.090
types of questions. So out of the 35 people that

00:39:20.090 --> 00:39:22.650
got interviewed, I think six of us got the thumbs

00:39:22.650 --> 00:39:26.320
up for the. the, uh, the cross commission into

00:39:26.320 --> 00:39:28.639
the air force. That means six people from the

00:39:28.639 --> 00:39:30.460
air force Academy are going to the, to the Navy

00:39:30.460 --> 00:39:33.539
after it's a one for one swap. Um, so everyone

00:39:33.539 --> 00:39:36.519
gets their blood. Um, so there was a period of

00:39:36.519 --> 00:39:39.280
time where, um, so fast forward a little bit,

00:39:39.360 --> 00:39:42.139
um, service selection, you know, all everyone,

00:39:42.179 --> 00:39:44.539
all my senior buddies are going to, it's called

00:39:44.539 --> 00:39:46.639
service selection night. You go pick your ship

00:39:46.639 --> 00:39:49.039
or Marine air or whatever you're going to be

00:39:49.039 --> 00:39:51.739
doing seals, whatever. I knew I was going to

00:39:51.739 --> 00:39:53.440
the air force at that point, but I had no idea

00:39:53.440 --> 00:39:55.440
what. career field I was going into. I was in

00:39:55.440 --> 00:39:57.659
this, this period of two, three months where

00:39:57.659 --> 00:39:59.900
I had no idea I'm going to the air force, but

00:39:59.900 --> 00:40:01.400
I have no idea what I'm going to be doing in

00:40:01.400 --> 00:40:05.119
the air force. So, um, I was during that timeframe

00:40:05.119 --> 00:40:06.519
and all my buddies are finding out what they're

00:40:06.519 --> 00:40:09.099
going to do and this and that. And then later

00:40:09.099 --> 00:40:10.659
on, I found out I was going to be going Intel

00:40:10.659 --> 00:40:13.280
and I was a little bit bummed, but I was like,

00:40:13.360 --> 00:40:16.739
okay, well you can go Intel, you can cross commission

00:40:16.739 --> 00:40:19.719
OSI later. That's an option. I'll do that. And

00:40:19.719 --> 00:40:22.420
then I, I thought about it again. This goes back

00:40:22.420 --> 00:40:25.860
to my sports. you know background i'm like no

00:40:25.860 --> 00:40:29.099
dude you want something go get it like you know

00:40:29.099 --> 00:40:32.000
think of innovative ways to go make that happen

00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:34.159
or you'll find out how to make it figure it the

00:40:34.159 --> 00:40:38.139
fuck out right you know um so um i go to lieutenant

00:40:38.139 --> 00:40:40.420
colonel and the air force i was like oh you know

00:40:40.420 --> 00:40:43.880
i'm real stoked to be going intel like you know

00:40:43.880 --> 00:40:46.719
and i'm planning to cross into osi but what can

00:40:46.719 --> 00:40:49.400
i do to get an interview with with someone from

00:40:49.400 --> 00:40:52.039
osi and he goes hunter the best thing i could

00:40:52.039 --> 00:40:55.659
do is you'll recommend is is get a letter recommendation

00:40:55.659 --> 00:41:00.119
from a an 06 or above you know which is a colonel

00:41:00.119 --> 00:41:02.659
in the marine corps or captain in the navy or

00:41:02.659 --> 00:41:04.860
general in the marine corps or admiral whatever

00:41:04.860 --> 00:41:07.260
so pretty high up senior leader officers i was

00:41:07.260 --> 00:41:08.719
like all right cool i can do that you know on

00:41:08.719 --> 00:41:11.139
the football team we have officer reps we have

00:41:11.139 --> 00:41:14.800
oh six for one for one for the air offense and

00:41:14.800 --> 00:41:18.340
one for the defense um the defensive guy colonel

00:41:18.340 --> 00:41:20.880
mike glenn i'll never forget him just You know,

00:41:20.880 --> 00:41:22.820
phenomenal guy that set me up for success, too.

00:41:23.139 --> 00:41:25.320
Just everybody loved this guy. Just a Marine.

00:41:25.460 --> 00:41:29.239
Just a badass. Just was just a warrior and just

00:41:29.239 --> 00:41:30.940
really got along with everybody on the team.

00:41:31.019 --> 00:41:36.119
He was the defensive officer rep. I had a captain

00:41:36.119 --> 00:41:38.719
for the I was an offensive guy, but like everybody

00:41:38.719 --> 00:41:40.480
loved him. So I was like, I'm going to go schedule

00:41:40.480 --> 00:41:42.780
a point with him. So I schedule a point with

00:41:42.780 --> 00:41:44.420
him. He's kind of tracking the Air Force thing.

00:41:44.500 --> 00:41:48.800
And he's like, so I go to his office and. And

00:41:48.800 --> 00:41:50.079
he's like, Hunter, what can I do for you? I was

00:41:50.079 --> 00:41:51.500
like, well, sir, he's like, he's like, oh, by

00:41:51.500 --> 00:41:52.940
the way, he's like, congrats on the Air Force

00:41:52.940 --> 00:41:54.219
thing. He's like, that's awesome. He's like,

00:41:54.260 --> 00:41:55.940
you know, where is it? Where's that stand right

00:41:55.940 --> 00:41:57.820
now? I was like, well, I just, I just found out

00:41:57.820 --> 00:41:59.579
I was, I'm slated to go Intel. As you know, I

00:41:59.579 --> 00:42:00.559
wanted to go. He's like, yeah, what happened

00:42:00.559 --> 00:42:02.460
to the OSI thing? I was like, what? That's why

00:42:02.460 --> 00:42:04.579
I'm here, actually, sir. I was like, you know,

00:42:04.639 --> 00:42:06.980
would you mind, you know, Lieutenant Colonel,

00:42:07.159 --> 00:42:08.659
I can't remember his name, but he's like, he

00:42:08.659 --> 00:42:10.360
recommended, you know, getting a letter of recommendation.

00:42:10.420 --> 00:42:11.619
He's like, all right, you need a letter of recommendation.

00:42:11.800 --> 00:42:13.260
He's like, done. He's like, come back in two

00:42:13.260 --> 00:42:15.500
days and, you know, I'll get it to you. I'm like,

00:42:17.420 --> 00:42:20.320
and uh so i come back two days later and he hands

00:42:20.320 --> 00:42:22.219
me this like manila folder and i pull out this

00:42:22.219 --> 00:42:24.300
letter record i have it somewhere it's it's somewhere

00:42:24.300 --> 00:42:27.920
in my house but i i literally closed it and i

00:42:27.920 --> 00:42:29.719
like hand it back to him like sir i can't turn

00:42:29.719 --> 00:42:31.960
this in in good conscience because i was like

00:42:31.960 --> 00:42:34.539
levitating on water i'm like i'm not jesus you

00:42:34.539 --> 00:42:36.960
know like and but he was doing me a complete

00:42:36.960 --> 00:42:39.760
solid i'm like sir i can't do this and he's like

00:42:40.110 --> 00:42:41.889
Turn it in. So we go back and forth. You know,

00:42:41.889 --> 00:42:43.750
it's the time. He's like he's a colonel and he's

00:42:43.750 --> 00:42:45.190
a Marine. I was like, he's going to stick a K

00:42:45.190 --> 00:42:47.170
-bar in my neck and kill me. I was like, Roger

00:42:47.170 --> 00:42:49.630
that, sir. I'll turn it in. And I was really

00:42:49.630 --> 00:42:52.530
grateful for him for doing that. And, you know,

00:42:52.530 --> 00:42:54.610
long and long story short, that letter went off

00:42:54.610 --> 00:42:57.010
to the personnel center. And then lo and behold,

00:42:57.269 --> 00:42:59.809
Colonel Eric Gardner, who's the U .S. Marshal

00:42:59.809 --> 00:43:02.210
I was telling you about earlier. He shows up

00:43:02.210 --> 00:43:05.590
at the Naval Academy to interview me. And he

00:43:05.590 --> 00:43:07.989
was a captain at the time, like a fullback looking

00:43:07.989 --> 00:43:11.610
type guy. And he sits down. You're not going

00:43:11.610 --> 00:43:13.230
to believe the story. He sits down. He mentions

00:43:13.230 --> 00:43:16.809
my school. He goes, Malvern Prep. And he started

00:43:16.809 --> 00:43:18.670
shaking his head. He goes, I used to go to Marple

00:43:18.670 --> 00:43:20.630
Newtown High School, which is right around the

00:43:20.630 --> 00:43:23.369
corner from Malvern. And he goes, we used to

00:43:23.369 --> 00:43:24.949
play you guys in football. He's like, you guys

00:43:24.949 --> 00:43:27.090
used to kick our ass. And that's how he started

00:43:27.090 --> 00:43:30.329
the interview. I immediately just kind of relaxed.

00:43:31.210 --> 00:43:33.809
We shot the bull for about an hour plus. We were

00:43:33.809 --> 00:43:36.349
actually in the lieutenant colonel's office and

00:43:36.349 --> 00:43:38.789
he knocked on the door. Hey, you done? Yeah,

00:43:38.809 --> 00:43:41.170
we are now. He gives me his card and says, hey,

00:43:41.230 --> 00:43:42.769
I really like what I see in here. He's like,

00:43:42.809 --> 00:43:45.630
I'll give you a call within a week or two and

00:43:45.630 --> 00:43:48.210
I'll let you know. Love to get you on board.

00:43:48.289 --> 00:43:50.369
I'm like, hey, great. Thanks for your time. And

00:43:50.369 --> 00:43:56.380
I go back to my room and later that night. Or

00:43:56.380 --> 00:43:58.460
a little bit after that, like a half hour, I

00:43:58.460 --> 00:44:00.579
get back to my room. I think maybe it was a little

00:44:00.579 --> 00:44:02.340
bit later at night. But whatever, same night,

00:44:02.440 --> 00:44:04.960
I get a call through the wardroom. It's like,

00:44:05.000 --> 00:44:07.059
hey, it's, you know, so I go get it. And it's

00:44:07.059 --> 00:44:09.420
Colonel, you know, Captain Gartner at the time.

00:44:09.420 --> 00:44:12.780
He's like, hey, I got you in. So just a real

00:44:12.780 --> 00:44:15.179
cool story. Like, you know, like being a pit

00:44:15.179 --> 00:44:18.420
bull, you know, figuring it out, you know, having

00:44:18.420 --> 00:44:20.480
the drive and desire. Again, all those traits

00:44:20.480 --> 00:44:22.179
that I learned from my athletic career, just

00:44:22.179 --> 00:44:24.969
not quitting. Because I could have easily just

00:44:24.969 --> 00:44:27.210
gone to Intel and done the cross. And I'm like,

00:44:27.230 --> 00:44:29.329
no, I want something. I'm going to go make it

00:44:29.329 --> 00:44:32.289
happen and put the work in, the hard work and

00:44:32.289 --> 00:44:34.349
so on and so forth. So it's just a cool story.

00:44:34.469 --> 00:44:37.090
And he was the guy that did my retirement ceremony.

00:44:37.210 --> 00:44:40.050
So he and I have been friends for several years,

00:44:40.170 --> 00:44:42.289
obviously, and just did a phenomenal job. And

00:44:42.289 --> 00:44:44.769
we're still good friends. He's a political appointed

00:44:44.769 --> 00:44:46.809
position for the U .S. Marshals right now. Just

00:44:46.809 --> 00:44:50.590
a great human being, great American. Again, another

00:44:50.590 --> 00:44:52.869
guy that kind of stuck his neck out for me and

00:44:52.869 --> 00:44:55.389
made one of my dreams come true. So it was pretty

00:44:55.389 --> 00:44:58.130
cool. Very cool. That actually reminds me, my

00:44:58.130 --> 00:45:01.250
son was supposed to go to Utah State. He got

00:45:01.250 --> 00:45:04.550
into Utah State out of high school, but he didn't

00:45:04.550 --> 00:45:07.010
have any scholarships or anything. And when it

00:45:07.010 --> 00:45:08.989
came to just figuring out the finances and everything,

00:45:09.250 --> 00:45:10.730
we were kind of circling back around to Plan

00:45:10.730 --> 00:45:12.789
A, which was community college for two years

00:45:12.789 --> 00:45:16.929
and then go to college. Yep. And he came home

00:45:16.929 --> 00:45:19.369
the other day and was like, I've got an interview

00:45:19.369 --> 00:45:21.409
to be on the student council, and if I get it,

00:45:21.429 --> 00:45:23.030
I get a full -ride scholarship at the community

00:45:23.030 --> 00:45:25.610
college. And then he went to the interview yesterday

00:45:25.610 --> 00:45:27.570
and came home, first told me he didn't get it,

00:45:27.630 --> 00:45:29.510
and then told me he was joking and he did get

00:45:29.510 --> 00:45:32.909
it. He pulled a fast one on you. He did, he did.

00:45:33.289 --> 00:45:35.710
But this is the point. I mean, just to your point,

00:45:35.769 --> 00:45:38.730
with this podcast, with so many things, why not?

00:45:39.090 --> 00:45:41.269
Why not you? Like I always said when I was testing

00:45:41.269 --> 00:45:43.030
for the fire service, I don't need all the spots.

00:45:43.250 --> 00:45:45.269
I just need one of them. That's it. Everyone

00:45:45.269 --> 00:45:48.710
else can have the rest. I don't think that that

00:45:48.710 --> 00:45:53.030
kind of ethos that I would argue we were raised

00:45:53.030 --> 00:45:55.150
with, you can be anything if you're in the right

00:45:55.150 --> 00:45:57.469
household or the right community. I don't hear

00:45:57.469 --> 00:45:59.929
it a lot these days. This is what this country

00:45:59.929 --> 00:46:03.369
was founded on, land of opportunity. It's so

00:46:03.369 --> 00:46:06.269
good to hear that because if you're dogmatic

00:46:06.269 --> 00:46:08.409
enough, you can make almost anything happen.

00:46:08.949 --> 00:46:12.000
100%. You know, even, you know, again, like,

00:46:12.039 --> 00:46:14.780
and I think sharing these stories, like, you

00:46:14.780 --> 00:46:17.219
know, it resonates with people. Like, and I always,

00:46:17.320 --> 00:46:20.239
even as a coach, like, I'm like, look, dude,

00:46:20.280 --> 00:46:22.559
like, you know, it's on you, man. Like, you know,

00:46:22.559 --> 00:46:26.260
you can't make everything happen yourself, but

00:46:26.260 --> 00:46:28.780
you can put things in place to find an enabler.

00:46:28.860 --> 00:46:31.599
You know, you got to have supporters in your

00:46:31.599 --> 00:46:33.840
corner, right? Like, you know, they're out there,

00:46:33.900 --> 00:46:36.960
but it's on you to go find them and garner their

00:46:36.960 --> 00:46:40.090
support. for your cause like you have to go do

00:46:40.090 --> 00:46:41.769
that that's really important if you want your

00:46:41.769 --> 00:46:44.130
dreams to come true you have to find two -year

00:46:44.130 --> 00:46:47.710
leaders 100 like it's it's so obviously from

00:46:47.710 --> 00:46:50.650
my stories i just told you like my my my mom's

00:46:50.650 --> 00:46:53.050
cousin and then the coach gamp and coach sells

00:46:53.050 --> 00:46:57.150
and then eric gardner like i mean man like they

00:46:57.150 --> 00:47:00.090
were they believed in me and they they saw something

00:47:00.090 --> 00:47:01.610
in me and they're like hey i'm gonna give this

00:47:01.610 --> 00:47:04.750
guy a shot you know like and you but you have

00:47:04.750 --> 00:47:08.090
to go make that happen. Like, it's just, it didn't

00:47:08.090 --> 00:47:10.389
get handed to me on a silver platter. And like,

00:47:10.429 --> 00:47:13.090
it was, I had to go shake the trees. I had to

00:47:13.090 --> 00:47:16.449
go make mistakes. I had to, you know, whatever,

00:47:16.849 --> 00:47:19.150
you know, knock on doors and, you know, find,

00:47:19.269 --> 00:47:20.969
figure it out. You know, you just got to go figure

00:47:20.969 --> 00:47:22.750
it out, but you got to have cheerleaders in your

00:47:22.750 --> 00:47:25.289
corner. You can't, you can't be successful in

00:47:25.289 --> 00:47:27.190
life without them. A hundred percent. And that's

00:47:27.190 --> 00:47:28.829
what, that's again, that's why I coach, you know,

00:47:28.849 --> 00:47:31.239
I get to teach these kids life lessons. mold

00:47:31.239 --> 00:47:32.599
future leaders. I think you and I would agree

00:47:32.599 --> 00:47:34.320
we need leadership more than ever in our country,

00:47:34.440 --> 00:47:36.599
and there's something to be said for that. So

00:47:36.599 --> 00:47:39.559
that's why I still, you know, still coach and

00:47:39.559 --> 00:47:41.300
do it to this day. So if I can help these kids,

00:47:41.320 --> 00:47:44.440
like I helped one of the kids last year, players,

00:47:44.699 --> 00:47:47.199
he's at Norwich University. You know, it's kind

00:47:47.199 --> 00:47:49.039
of like a private military college, like a Citadel,

00:47:49.219 --> 00:47:51.219
whatever. You know, he's doing well up there.

00:47:51.539 --> 00:47:54.760
I helped another player a couple years ago go

00:47:54.760 --> 00:47:56.460
to the Naval Academy Prep School where I went.

00:47:56.500 --> 00:47:58.739
It didn't work out for him. He left after a couple

00:47:58.739 --> 00:48:01.500
weeks, but, you know. um you know he's still

00:48:01.500 --> 00:48:03.500
doing well he's at Trinity College doing well

00:48:03.500 --> 00:48:05.480
you know still keep in touch a few of my players

00:48:05.480 --> 00:48:08.599
they're doing well and um I like good stuff but

00:48:08.599 --> 00:48:10.699
you know you got to find people that'll that'll

00:48:10.699 --> 00:48:13.579
support you for sure this is one thing I've heard

00:48:13.579 --> 00:48:16.239
over and over again with a lot of people that

00:48:16.239 --> 00:48:18.619
have ended up being successful and a lot of their

00:48:18.619 --> 00:48:21.159
early lives were you know pretty bad poverty

00:48:21.159 --> 00:48:25.250
addiction guinea gangs whatever it was and they

00:48:25.250 --> 00:48:27.150
found those mentors, you know, and sometimes

00:48:27.150 --> 00:48:29.170
accidentally, sometimes they were more, you know,

00:48:29.210 --> 00:48:31.670
seeking it. But this is the solution to what

00:48:31.670 --> 00:48:33.929
we've talked about earlier, which is, you know,

00:48:33.929 --> 00:48:35.769
if you want to change the world, start a home.

00:48:35.809 --> 00:48:38.070
And that means looking in the mirror and starting

00:48:38.070 --> 00:48:41.349
to fix yourself. Then you, you know, then organically

00:48:41.349 --> 00:48:43.269
through osmosis, it's your children, it's your

00:48:43.269 --> 00:48:45.809
spouse. And then you step out your front door.

00:48:46.280 --> 00:48:48.440
Yeah. OK, what can I do in my community now?

00:48:48.519 --> 00:48:50.760
I'm a mechanic. I'm a teacher. I'm a martial

00:48:50.760 --> 00:48:53.079
arts instructor. I'm, you know, whatever. How

00:48:53.079 --> 00:48:56.039
can I positively positively impact men and women,

00:48:56.139 --> 00:48:59.019
young men and women in my community? If we all

00:48:59.019 --> 00:49:01.260
do that, you will change the world. You will

00:49:01.260 --> 00:49:03.800
make America great, whatever your phrase that

00:49:03.800 --> 00:49:05.820
you want to lean into. But if we're constantly

00:49:05.820 --> 00:49:09.000
pointing at politicians of all people. to fix

00:49:09.000 --> 00:49:11.480
our problems, it's going to just get worse and

00:49:11.480 --> 00:49:17.199
worse. Yeah, it's crazy. You said something that

00:49:17.199 --> 00:49:18.960
kind of resonated with me, like looking in the

00:49:18.960 --> 00:49:21.780
mirror. I'm a big quote guy. I don't know if

00:49:21.780 --> 00:49:23.300
you heard the quote, the man in the mirror or

00:49:23.300 --> 00:49:26.000
the man in the glass. It's exactly what you're

00:49:26.000 --> 00:49:28.219
talking about. Whenever I was in the leadership

00:49:28.219 --> 00:49:32.099
position, or even today, before I go to bed at

00:49:32.099 --> 00:49:33.539
night, you're looking at yourself in the mirror.

00:49:33.559 --> 00:49:36.119
That's my gut check. quote unquote, gut check

00:49:36.119 --> 00:49:38.280
moment of like, hey, did I do right by yourself?

00:49:39.300 --> 00:49:41.820
Did I do right by me? Did I do right by my family?

00:49:41.860 --> 00:49:43.760
Did I do right by the people under my charge?

00:49:43.920 --> 00:49:46.059
You know, so on and so forth. Like, you know,

00:49:46.059 --> 00:49:48.679
you've got to do that like every day. That's

00:49:48.679 --> 00:49:51.659
important. You know, that mental gut check every

00:49:51.659 --> 00:49:54.380
day. And then, you know, another one of my favorite

00:49:54.380 --> 00:49:57.019
quotes is Ralph Waldo Emerson, the success quote.

00:49:57.179 --> 00:49:59.300
You know, it's like, it's on my LinkedIn page,

00:49:59.360 --> 00:50:01.380
but like, it's, you know, to your point, like

00:50:01.380 --> 00:50:03.900
if you can. you know, leave the world a little

00:50:03.900 --> 00:50:06.920
bit better by a garden patch or, you know, a

00:50:06.920 --> 00:50:09.219
healthy child or whatever. It's just a, it's

00:50:09.219 --> 00:50:12.440
a great quote that I try to live my life through.

00:50:12.480 --> 00:50:15.239
Like both those quotes is it's just a, you know,

00:50:15.280 --> 00:50:17.099
someone's already said it. Then why, why try

00:50:17.099 --> 00:50:18.739
to restate it? Right. Just live, live through

00:50:18.739 --> 00:50:20.719
those quotes, man. I'm just a big quote guy for

00:50:20.719 --> 00:50:22.599
sure. And those are, those are two that resonate

00:50:22.599 --> 00:50:25.019
with me, the man in the glass and the, one of

00:50:25.019 --> 00:50:27.380
the man in the mirror and then a success by Emerson

00:50:27.380 --> 00:50:29.980
for sure. A hundred percent. absolutely actually

00:50:29.980 --> 00:50:32.539
i read that quote on your web page of your new

00:50:32.539 --> 00:50:36.780
new business yep 100 yep yep what what year was

00:50:36.780 --> 00:50:39.800
it that you went into osi um so it was right

00:50:39.800 --> 00:50:44.380
after i graduated so um graduated in may of 1997

00:50:44.380 --> 00:50:46.659
you know threw up my cap and gown you've seen

00:50:46.659 --> 00:50:49.139
all the web pages or the photos and stuff and

00:50:49.139 --> 00:50:50.739
then i went over and got cross -commissioned

00:50:50.739 --> 00:50:53.800
a couple hours later into the air force and then

00:50:53.800 --> 00:50:58.489
i had like two months of leave. And then I went

00:50:58.489 --> 00:51:01.750
out to Travis Air Force Base in California for

00:51:01.750 --> 00:51:06.210
my first duty station. And I was an agent trainee

00:51:06.210 --> 00:51:08.150
at the time. I was awaiting to go to official

00:51:08.150 --> 00:51:12.050
training as an agent. So I was there for a few

00:51:12.050 --> 00:51:15.469
months until I went to training. And then I graduated

00:51:15.469 --> 00:51:19.170
from the Basic Investigations Academy in December

00:51:19.170 --> 00:51:22.849
of 1997, got my gun and my badge, and then went

00:51:22.849 --> 00:51:27.460
back to travis air force base um and then you

00:51:27.460 --> 00:51:32.159
know went went from there um yeah so 1997 in

00:51:32.159 --> 00:51:33.920
december is when i got my badge and my gun yep

00:51:33.920 --> 00:51:37.659
so describe the world and kind of the you know

00:51:37.659 --> 00:51:40.039
the the scope of practice that you were operating

00:51:40.039 --> 00:51:43.500
in pre -911 and then what changed when we had

00:51:43.500 --> 00:51:46.159
that terrible attack yeah i mean i knew this

00:51:46.159 --> 00:51:53.019
was going to come up um so um i went out to travis

00:51:53.019 --> 00:51:55.199
which is a great office to learn from because

00:51:55.199 --> 00:51:57.099
it was what we call it a composite detachment

00:51:57.099 --> 00:52:00.079
so we had a lot of specialists there um so i

00:52:00.079 --> 00:52:02.820
think polygraphers you know forensic scientists

00:52:02.820 --> 00:52:06.900
um you know tech services um the guys that sweep

00:52:06.900 --> 00:52:09.800
for bugs and and you know do the body wires all

00:52:09.800 --> 00:52:11.920
that stuff so it was a really great opportunity

00:52:11.920 --> 00:52:14.769
for me to you'll really be a sponge, you know,

00:52:14.769 --> 00:52:17.769
and as a Lieutenant, not knowing anything, I

00:52:17.769 --> 00:52:19.349
mean, there's just two types of leaders out there.

00:52:19.369 --> 00:52:21.550
There's those leaders that get those second Lieutenant

00:52:21.550 --> 00:52:24.110
bars and think they know everything. Like, that's

00:52:24.110 --> 00:52:26.210
not me. I'm just like, I'm like, dude, I'm going

00:52:26.210 --> 00:52:28.630
to learn as much as I can from my enlisted counterparts

00:52:28.630 --> 00:52:30.889
as I can. I'm going to bring them dry and just

00:52:30.889 --> 00:52:34.429
be a sponge. And, you know, then you start asking

00:52:34.429 --> 00:52:36.150
all these questions and, you know, you, you,

00:52:36.150 --> 00:52:38.449
you, you breed their trust because you're, you're

00:52:38.449 --> 00:52:40.730
asking, you want to learn from them. Like you

00:52:40.730 --> 00:52:44.869
ask any NCO out there. you know, they want officers,

00:52:44.929 --> 00:52:47.269
young officers to come ask them questions. Like

00:52:47.269 --> 00:52:49.050
they, they respect that, you know, cause Hey,

00:52:49.070 --> 00:52:51.289
this kid wants to see again. Yeah. A hundred

00:52:51.289 --> 00:52:54.409
percent. Like, I don't know, Jack squat, so I'm

00:52:54.409 --> 00:52:57.489
going to pick your brain. And yeah. You know,

00:52:57.489 --> 00:52:58.989
I, it's just one of those things I firmly believe.

00:52:59.090 --> 00:53:01.030
I, I believe everybody brings something to the

00:53:01.030 --> 00:53:04.179
table. Like I, even like when I was a. you know

00:53:04.179 --> 00:53:06.659
freaking lieutenant colonel or running my unit

00:53:06.659 --> 00:53:09.119
so i was like i would go up and talk to one stripers

00:53:09.119 --> 00:53:10.500
and my people my people like hey what are you

00:53:10.500 --> 00:53:11.880
doing i'm like hey i'm gonna go learn something

00:53:11.880 --> 00:53:14.659
from that kid man like like you know everyone

00:53:14.659 --> 00:53:17.519
brings something to the table so um yeah i just

00:53:17.519 --> 00:53:20.239
uh You know, it started out Travis and it was

00:53:20.239 --> 00:53:22.320
like, I started out as the, uh, the drug chief

00:53:22.320 --> 00:53:24.380
out there really enjoyed that, you know, the

00:53:24.380 --> 00:53:26.780
counter drug mission, um, doing a lot of buys,

00:53:26.880 --> 00:53:28.719
staying up late, doing the bars thing, this and

00:53:28.719 --> 00:53:30.420
that, and then working with our local counterparts

00:53:30.420 --> 00:53:32.940
to, you know, bring down the suppliers that are

00:53:32.940 --> 00:53:35.900
pilfering drugs to our active duty populations,

00:53:36.019 --> 00:53:39.039
uh, on our base out there. And then I went over

00:53:39.039 --> 00:53:41.739
to do the counterintelligence, uh, branch chief.

00:53:41.760 --> 00:53:45.559
Cause the, um, the branch wasn't doing much out

00:53:45.559 --> 00:53:47.400
there. And my Lieutenant Colonel boss pulled

00:53:47.400 --> 00:53:49.500
me in. He's like, I need you to put a foot in

00:53:49.500 --> 00:53:51.460
NASA, that branch back there. I was like, okay,

00:53:51.519 --> 00:53:54.659
I can do that, you know? And then, uh, you know,

00:53:54.659 --> 00:53:56.539
really enjoyed that. And then I went my next

00:53:56.539 --> 00:54:00.039
tour out to, um, Germany, uh, to be a counter

00:54:00.039 --> 00:54:02.079
espionage case officer, which was really cool.

00:54:02.559 --> 00:54:05.840
Um, and then it wasn't until I got back from

00:54:05.840 --> 00:54:12.070
that tour, um, that nine 11 hit. So, um, And

00:54:12.070 --> 00:54:14.989
I was, I was at DIA at their, their counterterrorism,

00:54:15.010 --> 00:54:17.469
your defense intelligence agency. So it's a combat

00:54:17.469 --> 00:54:20.409
support agency to all the services, you know,

00:54:20.429 --> 00:54:21.849
from an intelligence standpoint. So it's like

00:54:21.849 --> 00:54:26.130
90 % analysts, right? Intel analysts, 10 % operators.

00:54:26.289 --> 00:54:27.909
You've got some case officers there, what have

00:54:27.909 --> 00:54:31.250
you. But majority of the outfits and providing

00:54:31.250 --> 00:54:34.670
intelligence analysts to, you know, the military

00:54:34.670 --> 00:54:38.050
services and stuff like that. So counterterrorism

00:54:38.050 --> 00:54:41.460
unit, when I got there, so I got there. Came

00:54:41.460 --> 00:54:44.480
back from Germany. I checked in there like literally

00:54:44.480 --> 00:54:52.960
5 September of 2001. And our office was actually

00:54:52.960 --> 00:54:56.400
in the Pentagon. Did a couple days there. And

00:54:56.400 --> 00:55:00.539
then I went to a DIA orientation course across

00:55:00.539 --> 00:55:02.900
the river where the DIA headquarters is at at

00:55:02.900 --> 00:55:07.519
Bowling Air Force Base. And that's when we got

00:55:07.519 --> 00:55:09.800
hit. Again, should have been in the building

00:55:09.800 --> 00:55:11.920
that day. at the pentagon but i just happened

00:55:11.920 --> 00:55:15.320
to be across the river for training um and the

00:55:15.320 --> 00:55:17.960
world changed i mean uh i remember i'll never

00:55:17.960 --> 00:55:21.539
forget it like my first thing was trying to get

00:55:21.539 --> 00:55:23.199
a hold of my family to let them know i was okay

00:55:23.199 --> 00:55:25.159
because they thought i was there at the building

00:55:25.159 --> 00:55:28.760
so um but all the phone lines were shut down

00:55:28.760 --> 00:55:30.980
i couldn't go anywhere i was locked on the base

00:55:30.980 --> 00:55:34.739
obviously they closed the gates and i'm sitting

00:55:34.739 --> 00:55:38.739
there on the the seawall at bowling and i'm watching

00:55:38.739 --> 00:55:41.659
the pentagon before my eyes again three miles

00:55:41.659 --> 00:55:45.820
away or no not even that far but i actually thought

00:55:45.820 --> 00:55:47.380
about jumping in and swimming because i i was

00:55:47.380 --> 00:55:48.820
a good swimmer still am a good swimmer i was

00:55:48.820 --> 00:55:51.940
like i'm gonna go help um and uh just seething

00:55:51.940 --> 00:55:53.840
in anger i'm like man these people are gonna

00:55:53.840 --> 00:55:59.780
pay um and like it was it was very uh emotional

00:55:59.780 --> 00:56:03.610
obviously um and i kind of got Again, I still

00:56:03.610 --> 00:56:05.230
hadn't notified my family at this point. I'm

00:56:05.230 --> 00:56:06.929
like, they think I'm in there. And I kind of

00:56:06.929 --> 00:56:09.829
like, okay, shit, get your shit together. I got

00:56:09.829 --> 00:56:12.610
to let my family know I'm okay. I flagged someone

00:56:12.610 --> 00:56:15.289
down at the base, got to their home phones, able

00:56:15.289 --> 00:56:17.690
to call my parents. My wife, well, she and I

00:56:17.690 --> 00:56:19.230
weren't married at the time, but she was actually

00:56:19.230 --> 00:56:21.969
at the embassy in Paris as an OS agent. So they're

00:56:21.969 --> 00:56:25.190
doing their, obviously, hardening their security

00:56:25.190 --> 00:56:27.469
there. So she was busy. But I was able to let

00:56:27.469 --> 00:56:32.340
my parents know that I was okay. you know um

00:56:32.340 --> 00:56:35.019
again that counterterrorism you know when i got

00:56:35.019 --> 00:56:37.860
there was probably like 80 people um but fast

00:56:37.860 --> 00:56:40.960
forward by the time i left it was like 320 people

00:56:40.960 --> 00:56:46.320
so completely changed um you know and i was a

00:56:46.320 --> 00:56:50.000
liaison officer there um as the senior counterterrorism

00:56:50.000 --> 00:56:55.039
officers for osi signed there um and you know

00:56:55.039 --> 00:56:58.099
those ladies on positions are one where you can

00:56:58.099 --> 00:57:00.940
you can go and kind of hide and do nothing like

00:57:00.940 --> 00:57:04.480
you can do that. Like it's your choice, but I'm

00:57:04.480 --> 00:57:06.760
like, dude, I'm going to do something here. And

00:57:06.760 --> 00:57:09.980
like, this is an awesome place to be. And again,

00:57:10.019 --> 00:57:12.480
it's unfortunate that, you know, we had that,

00:57:12.480 --> 00:57:16.260
you know, incident travesty, I should say. But

00:57:16.260 --> 00:57:19.599
it was a really cool time to be there and I was

00:57:19.599 --> 00:57:21.780
going to make the best of it and try to make

00:57:21.780 --> 00:57:24.559
the biggest impact that I could. And one of the

00:57:24.559 --> 00:57:28.400
things that I'm proud about is. If you can recall,

00:57:28.539 --> 00:57:30.480
we had a lot of reservists that were called up

00:57:30.480 --> 00:57:35.420
flooding to the unit to do reserve duty. One

00:57:35.420 --> 00:57:37.820
of them happened to be local to where I grew

00:57:37.820 --> 00:57:44.179
up here, Navy Intel guy, assistant U .S. attorney.

00:57:44.500 --> 00:57:46.679
And being an OSI agent, I've worked with those

00:57:46.679 --> 00:57:50.820
guys before. So he and I hit it off. And long

00:57:50.820 --> 00:57:52.860
story short, as you know, the Patriot Act dropped.

00:57:53.659 --> 00:57:57.099
And that was a great. you know tool in the toolkit

00:57:57.099 --> 00:57:59.699
you know to combat terrorism and so on so forth

00:57:59.699 --> 00:58:01.960
so when that dropped like again the bill is like

00:58:01.960 --> 00:58:07.440
huge you know um i'm like hey like you're you're

00:58:07.440 --> 00:58:09.539
you why don't you break this down in layman's

00:58:09.539 --> 00:58:11.420
terms and i've got the badge and the gun i'll

00:58:11.420 --> 00:58:14.800
open the doors to federal agencies you know dea

00:58:14.800 --> 00:58:17.420
whatever marshals whatever and you know so we

00:58:17.420 --> 00:58:19.119
can get some of this law enforcement data so

00:58:19.119 --> 00:58:21.900
we can go combat terrorism on the far end instead

00:58:21.900 --> 00:58:24.300
of fighting it here at home because that's what

00:58:24.300 --> 00:58:26.579
the Patriot Act was for, is to break those stovepipes,

00:58:26.679 --> 00:58:29.440
right? And, you know, that's what we did, you

00:58:29.440 --> 00:58:31.400
know, like with the leadership there and then

00:58:31.400 --> 00:58:34.179
him and I, we kind of worked as a team. know

00:58:34.179 --> 00:58:36.460
to go visit you know these these federal law

00:58:36.460 --> 00:58:38.760
enforcement agencies again just use my badge

00:58:38.760 --> 00:58:41.119
and gun to get placement access and then he went

00:58:41.119 --> 00:58:44.619
in there and broke the patriot act down and layman's

00:58:44.619 --> 00:58:46.980
terms where investigators like me could completely

00:58:46.980 --> 00:58:48.940
understand right because we're knuckle draggers

00:58:48.940 --> 00:58:52.239
um and you know we made a lot of good stuff happen

00:58:52.239 --> 00:58:56.000
um but uh yeah it was it was it was definitely

00:58:56.000 --> 00:58:59.920
you know the focus there on ford was my majority

00:58:59.920 --> 00:59:02.650
of my career was in the central command air responsibility

00:59:02.650 --> 00:59:05.650
combating terrorism you know what it was deploying

00:59:05.650 --> 00:59:10.610
for iraqi freedom prior to us you know um taking

00:59:10.610 --> 00:59:13.969
the fight to iraq and and and then afghanistan

00:59:13.969 --> 00:59:16.909
after that um you know a majority of my career

00:59:16.909 --> 00:59:19.750
has been in the middle eastern the area of responsibility

00:59:19.750 --> 00:59:23.829
um before before i retired so yeah i mean it

00:59:23.829 --> 00:59:28.150
was um it'd be interesting to know like had that

00:59:28.989 --> 00:59:31.250
you know, 9 -11 not happen, what it would have

00:59:31.250 --> 00:59:34.309
been like. I mean, I don't know. It would have

00:59:34.309 --> 00:59:36.010
been like, I don't know, like an extended Cold

00:59:36.010 --> 00:59:39.329
War type era. You know, I don't know. But, you

00:59:39.329 --> 00:59:43.130
know, definitely, you know, and existence of

00:59:43.130 --> 00:59:44.789
terrorism is never going to go away. I mean,

00:59:44.809 --> 00:59:46.050
there's always terrorists out there that are

00:59:46.050 --> 00:59:47.809
going to want to do bad things to us. So you're

00:59:47.809 --> 00:59:49.570
always going to need that counterterrorism mission.

00:59:51.010 --> 00:59:52.590
There's always a need for that. You know, so

00:59:52.590 --> 00:59:53.989
I don't think it's ever going to go away. But,

00:59:53.989 --> 00:59:57.349
you know, we've got a lot of other. um national

00:59:57.349 --> 01:00:00.409
security threats out there china russia iran

01:00:00.409 --> 01:00:03.989
um you know so on so forth so north korea um

01:00:03.989 --> 01:00:07.250
you know so you're going to do so much with the

01:00:07.250 --> 01:00:09.710
budgets that you get and so on so forth i think

01:00:09.710 --> 01:00:11.610
this administration's obviously we're tightening

01:00:11.610 --> 01:00:13.889
up with the the homeland security part the border

01:00:13.889 --> 01:00:17.849
security you know the uh the the influx of the

01:00:17.849 --> 01:00:20.269
legals just was crazy how we even got to that

01:00:20.269 --> 01:00:24.250
point is like beyond me like you know we we um

01:00:24.250 --> 01:00:28.210
we don't know It's a security crisis on so many

01:00:28.210 --> 01:00:30.190
ends. Just from a health standpoint, we have

01:00:30.190 --> 01:00:32.829
no idea what diseases these people are bringing

01:00:32.829 --> 01:00:35.590
in. They're not vetted. Are they terrorists?

01:00:35.789 --> 01:00:38.190
I could go on and on about the security implications

01:00:38.190 --> 01:00:41.349
and just opening up the border like we did. I

01:00:41.349 --> 01:00:43.630
applaud this administration for making a priority

01:00:43.630 --> 01:00:49.690
and fixing it because it needed to be done for

01:00:49.690 --> 01:00:53.889
sure, 100%. Going back to the Patriot Act first.

01:00:54.380 --> 01:00:57.480
Um, you know, you, you hear obviously the applications

01:00:57.480 --> 01:01:01.079
to, to create more information so that you can

01:01:01.079 --> 01:01:03.000
be proactive and try and stop some of these things

01:01:03.000 --> 01:01:05.900
happening before they do. But at the same time,

01:01:05.940 --> 01:01:07.519
there's other conversations about government

01:01:07.519 --> 01:01:10.199
overreach with that. You are boots on the ground.

01:01:10.280 --> 01:01:13.039
Talk to me about pros cons, you know, the spectrum

01:01:13.039 --> 01:01:16.320
from the act specifically. Yeah. I mean, I, I,

01:01:16.320 --> 01:01:21.199
I think it's just, um, to your point, like considering,

01:01:21.340 --> 01:01:26.059
you know, We lost 3 ,000 people, you know, citizens.

01:01:26.179 --> 01:01:30.920
And, you know, some people were, you know, in

01:01:30.920 --> 01:01:33.099
the security, I'm a security subject matter expert.

01:01:33.139 --> 01:01:35.860
So I think when the shit hits the fan, like the

01:01:35.860 --> 01:01:40.480
general populace is more apt to look the other

01:01:40.480 --> 01:01:44.679
way when it comes to, you know, your civil liberties,

01:01:44.800 --> 01:01:47.820
what have you. And security becomes the paramount,

01:01:47.820 --> 01:01:53.199
you know, priority, right? But as... Time wanes,

01:01:53.199 --> 01:01:57.460
and trust me, there's still a lot of terrorist

01:01:57.460 --> 01:01:59.019
attacks that are getting caught, but the general

01:01:59.019 --> 01:02:01.500
public has no idea about, and there's obvious

01:02:01.500 --> 01:02:04.739
reasons for that. I was privy to a lot of that

01:02:04.739 --> 01:02:08.539
stuff, but bottom line is the general public

01:02:08.539 --> 01:02:11.139
doesn't know about it, so they just go about

01:02:11.139 --> 01:02:14.840
their daily day. But you can't – you've got to

01:02:14.840 --> 01:02:17.699
give – the warriors at the tip of the spiel the

01:02:17.699 --> 01:02:19.719
tools that they need to do their job you know

01:02:19.719 --> 01:02:21.820
i think there's a there's to your point there's

01:02:21.820 --> 01:02:24.500
a fine line between civil liberties and privacy

01:02:24.500 --> 01:02:26.460
and so and so forth but i've always been at the

01:02:26.460 --> 01:02:29.400
adage like you know dude if the cia or whatever

01:02:29.400 --> 01:02:31.719
the nsa wants to bug my house go for it you're

01:02:31.719 --> 01:02:33.920
wasting your freaking time like you lose you

01:02:33.920 --> 01:02:36.400
know i'm just like but they i know that they

01:02:36.400 --> 01:02:38.119
don't do that because they have bigger fish to

01:02:38.119 --> 01:02:40.960
fry and and they're focused on other no kidding

01:02:40.960 --> 01:02:44.670
threats You know, it's people that usually aren't

01:02:44.670 --> 01:02:48.929
in the know that that causes uproar about the

01:02:48.929 --> 01:02:52.630
privacy and security, this and that. So, yeah,

01:02:52.769 --> 01:02:54.590
I mean, it's an interesting dynamic and you got

01:02:54.590 --> 01:02:57.050
to walk a fine line. Right. But, you know, me

01:02:57.050 --> 01:02:59.989
being in the trenches at the tip of spirit, knowing

01:02:59.989 --> 01:03:03.130
what I know, I'm like, you know, you got to give

01:03:03.130 --> 01:03:05.429
the guys in the trenches where I used to be like

01:03:05.429 --> 01:03:08.349
the tools and the toolkit to get the job done,

01:03:08.429 --> 01:03:10.849
to keep the nation safe and get the mission done.

01:03:11.639 --> 01:03:13.760
you know, the more arrows in your quiver you

01:03:13.760 --> 01:03:16.059
have to get your job done, then by all means,

01:03:16.159 --> 01:03:18.260
you know, that's just kind of my, my, I'm not

01:03:18.260 --> 01:03:20.320
saying like, you know, we should have widespread

01:03:20.320 --> 01:03:22.019
surveillance. Of course you got to walk the fine

01:03:22.019 --> 01:03:24.320
line, but you know, we can't, we can't handcuff

01:03:24.320 --> 01:03:28.639
our, our, our operators. Like I, um, I'll give

01:03:28.639 --> 01:03:32.539
you an example. Um, when I was at Sox at, so

01:03:32.539 --> 01:03:35.900
I had retired along on my uniform at CENTCOM.

01:03:37.070 --> 01:03:39.829
I went to Booz Allen Hamilton, which is a contract,

01:03:40.050 --> 01:03:42.050
as you know. I went across the street to Special

01:03:42.050 --> 01:03:45.329
Operations Command Central. We were the theater

01:03:45.329 --> 01:03:47.730
Special Operations Command that was taking the

01:03:47.730 --> 01:03:49.889
fight to ISIS in the Middle East at the time.

01:03:49.969 --> 01:03:53.409
I was there 2015 to late 2018. It's almost four

01:03:53.409 --> 01:03:58.809
years. We're taking the fight to ISIS. I don't

01:03:58.809 --> 01:04:01.250
want to get political on this, but facts are

01:04:01.250 --> 01:04:06.679
facts. When I retired, Bomb administration was

01:04:06.679 --> 01:04:11.719
still in office. We were, when it comes to special

01:04:11.719 --> 01:04:17.019
operations, you have advise, aid, and AAA, advise,

01:04:17.099 --> 01:04:22.480
aid, and accompany. So those are the three things

01:04:22.480 --> 01:04:24.800
that our special operators go forward and say,

01:04:24.860 --> 01:04:28.440
like, help, you know, local forces, you know,

01:04:28.440 --> 01:04:31.920
combat, you know, terrorism, whatever, like the

01:04:31.920 --> 01:04:34.679
Peshmerga and stuff like that in the Middle East.

01:04:35.099 --> 01:04:41.079
Um, so that a company out of the AAA advise aid

01:04:41.079 --> 01:04:44.880
and company is a game changer. Like, so the Obama

01:04:44.880 --> 01:04:46.960
administration, we were only aiding and advising,

01:04:47.099 --> 01:04:49.940
you know, the, the operators that were taking

01:04:49.940 --> 01:04:51.840
the fight, the ISIS at the tip of the spear,

01:04:51.960 --> 01:04:54.340
like our, our host nation counterparts, et cetera,

01:04:54.400 --> 01:04:56.900
et cetera, our indigenous forces in which we

01:04:56.900 --> 01:05:00.420
were working with the, the, the crush ISIS. Um,

01:05:00.539 --> 01:05:02.199
so we only had those two. We were bringing a

01:05:02.199 --> 01:05:04.139
bear, the, the company, of course, and we weren't.

01:05:04.139 --> 01:05:06.969
So when we. came to combat missions, our special

01:05:06.969 --> 01:05:09.309
operators were not going shoulder to shoulder

01:05:09.309 --> 01:05:11.389
with them to take the fight to ISIS. That's a

01:05:11.389 --> 01:05:14.929
game changer, man. Fast forward, Trump comes

01:05:14.929 --> 01:05:18.289
into the office. He basically took the handcuffs

01:05:18.289 --> 01:05:20.489
off. He told the generals, like, you do what

01:05:20.489 --> 01:05:22.690
you got to do. Like, so we got that accompany.

01:05:23.210 --> 01:05:25.650
So we got all three of them now. So our operators

01:05:25.650 --> 01:05:28.769
were able to go out there and, you know, firsthand,

01:05:29.150 --> 01:05:30.849
you know, stand shoulder to shoulder with them

01:05:30.849 --> 01:05:34.199
combating these terrorists. um and just from

01:05:34.199 --> 01:05:36.239
a mentality standpoint like your counterparts

01:05:36.239 --> 01:05:39.320
that that it brings a spirit of like camaraderie

01:05:39.320 --> 01:05:42.000
and bravado and you're like dude i got the americans

01:05:42.000 --> 01:05:44.320
with me like i'm i'm gonna go crush some stuff

01:05:44.320 --> 01:05:46.559
you know and it was a complete game changer for

01:05:46.559 --> 01:05:49.260
us and after that happened you know in addition

01:05:49.260 --> 01:05:52.159
to some other policy limitations that we had

01:05:52.159 --> 01:05:54.599
we were able to crush isis in like six months

01:05:54.599 --> 01:05:57.719
like it was gone you know so just because of

01:05:57.719 --> 01:06:01.059
a couple policy changes so you know um there's

01:06:01.059 --> 01:06:02.880
just a difference in mentality when it comes

01:06:02.880 --> 01:06:05.219
to the political atmosphere. But like my bottom

01:06:05.219 --> 01:06:09.420
line is like, we can't limit the options and

01:06:09.420 --> 01:06:12.119
the tools in the toolkit for our operators out

01:06:12.119 --> 01:06:13.780
there, whether it be law enforcement, firefighters,

01:06:14.260 --> 01:06:16.880
military, et cetera, et cetera. We need to give

01:06:16.880 --> 01:06:19.500
them the tools of the training. to get the job

01:06:19.500 --> 01:06:22.820
done. If we don't, we're handcuffing them. I

01:06:22.820 --> 01:06:25.260
experienced that firsthand at SOX. I was like,

01:06:25.260 --> 01:06:29.000
what are we doing? And then the administration

01:06:29.000 --> 01:06:32.360
came in and we just decimated them in five, six

01:06:32.360 --> 01:06:38.000
months. It was a game changer, 100%. You mentioned

01:06:38.000 --> 01:06:40.639
deploying to Iraq before the actual invasion.

01:06:41.300 --> 01:06:44.019
Now, retrospectively, a lot of veterans are looking

01:06:44.019 --> 01:06:45.840
back and saying, well, some of the things that

01:06:45.840 --> 01:06:47.989
we were told, the reasons that we went out. didn't

01:06:47.989 --> 01:06:51.550
end up to be true so again i'm just james gearing

01:06:51.550 --> 01:06:53.289
a firefighter sitting in front of a laptop right

01:06:53.289 --> 01:06:55.610
now you're the expert talk to me about that whole

01:06:55.610 --> 01:06:59.130
conversation yeah a lot of people have um yeah

01:06:59.130 --> 01:07:01.889
so i i went out there to iud airbase that's the

01:07:01.889 --> 01:07:04.050
airbase that was just taking some you know like

01:07:04.050 --> 01:07:06.809
the rainings were trying to hit us iud in cutter

01:07:06.809 --> 01:07:09.309
so that's where i went and that was you know

01:07:09.309 --> 01:07:12.730
the biggest airfield in the aor to you know for

01:07:12.730 --> 01:07:16.590
for us to you know the um the shock and awe campaign,

01:07:16.809 --> 01:07:20.849
the bombing campaign for Iraqi freedom. So that's

01:07:20.849 --> 01:07:24.110
where I was at. So I was there a couple months.

01:07:24.349 --> 01:07:27.750
I got there in January, and then we hit Iraq

01:07:27.750 --> 01:07:31.409
in March, and I was there until about July. But

01:07:31.409 --> 01:07:33.349
I had to help a lot of guys go in and out of

01:07:33.349 --> 01:07:36.489
Iraq and stuff like that. To answer your question,

01:07:36.690 --> 01:07:42.489
in hindsight, we're terrible at this. We didn't

01:07:42.489 --> 01:07:44.880
know the Berlin Wall was falling on Earth. falling

01:07:44.880 --> 01:07:46.400
down until the bricks were hitting us in the

01:07:46.400 --> 01:07:49.739
head. A lot of people talk about this. Iraq's

01:07:49.739 --> 01:07:55.039
no different. At the time, I was all about it.

01:07:55.139 --> 01:07:57.400
Again, me just being a football guy and a warrior,

01:07:57.559 --> 01:07:59.780
I volunteered for both my combat deployments.

01:07:59.860 --> 01:08:01.980
I'm like, put me in, coach. I didn't get told.

01:08:02.159 --> 01:08:05.980
I volunteered for both. I was like, I want in.

01:08:06.119 --> 01:08:11.539
Put me in. Knowing what I know now, as brutal

01:08:11.539 --> 01:08:16.739
as Saddam Hussein was out there, He kept everyone

01:08:16.739 --> 01:08:20.159
in check, man. So I don't think it was in our

01:08:20.159 --> 01:08:24.100
best interest to take him out. It created a huge

01:08:24.100 --> 01:08:26.119
power vacuum. I'm sure you've heard people tell

01:08:26.119 --> 01:08:29.800
you the same thing. It birthed ISIS, right? Because

01:08:29.800 --> 01:08:33.220
we took out Saddam Hussein, we created a terror

01:08:33.220 --> 01:08:37.479
organization. It's crazy, but it's true. We created

01:08:37.479 --> 01:08:42.079
this huge power vacuum there. And again, he was

01:08:42.079 --> 01:08:46.390
brutal. strategically from the grand scheme of

01:08:46.390 --> 01:08:48.250
things from a national strategic perspective

01:08:48.250 --> 01:08:52.149
it's probably best we just didn't go in there

01:08:52.149 --> 01:08:55.010
and do that um you know for that very reason

01:08:55.010 --> 01:08:56.789
because we created a power back and created a

01:08:56.789 --> 01:08:59.829
whole new ball of wax you know that we you know

01:08:59.829 --> 01:09:03.329
we i lost friends in iraqi freedom yeah i lost

01:09:03.329 --> 01:09:06.529
one of my troops literally one of my troops um

01:09:06.529 --> 01:09:12.279
so um it's it's it's it's It's tough to talk

01:09:12.279 --> 01:09:15.359
about because I've lost a lot of friends. Looking

01:09:15.359 --> 01:09:19.420
back, I think we'd have been better off leaving

01:09:19.420 --> 01:09:21.079
Saddam there. He was as brutal as he was, but

01:09:21.079 --> 01:09:26.560
he kept everyone in check. Iran, he would have

01:09:26.560 --> 01:09:28.720
kept them in check. Iran wouldn't be doing what

01:09:28.720 --> 01:09:32.300
they're doing. If you look at Iran's, quote -unquote,

01:09:32.340 --> 01:09:37.529
saber -rattling and just being aggressive. they

01:09:37.529 --> 01:09:39.710
didn't really start doing that until you know

01:09:39.710 --> 01:09:41.250
like they didn't want us there and they were

01:09:41.250 --> 01:09:43.829
conducting a lot of attacks that killed my friends

01:09:43.829 --> 01:09:48.310
and so on and so forth but yo post saddam being

01:09:48.310 --> 01:09:50.670
gone like you know that we kind of created a

01:09:50.670 --> 01:09:54.670
monster there too so um in hindsight we probably

01:09:54.670 --> 01:09:57.470
shouldn't have gone into iraq but at the time

01:09:57.470 --> 01:10:00.270
i didn't know any different you know i just wanted

01:10:00.270 --> 01:10:03.800
to be in the fight you know so yeah yeah i remember

01:10:03.800 --> 01:10:06.199
when it happened when 9 -11 happened i was in

01:10:06.199 --> 01:10:09.340
japan working as a stuntman and we had a visual

01:10:09.340 --> 01:10:11.920
i lived in a big apartment complex they built

01:10:11.920 --> 01:10:14.399
for it was universal studios for the theme park

01:10:14.399 --> 01:10:17.800
about 50 american 50 australian and then a couple

01:10:17.800 --> 01:10:20.380
of us mutts from other parts of the world um

01:10:20.380 --> 01:10:22.479
and so we had this big visual one of the girls

01:10:22.479 --> 01:10:24.439
one of her family members managed to get out

01:10:24.439 --> 01:10:27.380
the tower but she was actually in there um we

01:10:27.380 --> 01:10:30.319
all watched as an entire you know apartment together

01:10:30.319 --> 01:10:33.680
as the attacks happened and the towers fell.

01:10:34.380 --> 01:10:37.020
But I remember saying at the vigil, I hope this

01:10:37.020 --> 01:10:39.500
doesn't cost more lives than we've already lost.

01:10:40.319 --> 01:10:43.340
And again, retrospectively growing up with the

01:10:43.340 --> 01:10:45.859
IRA and the Falklands War and the British eye

01:10:45.859 --> 01:10:48.380
that I had. And again, but then understanding

01:10:48.380 --> 01:10:51.390
the... the kind of origin story of the IRA. These

01:10:51.390 --> 01:10:53.869
are all things that if you go far enough back,

01:10:53.989 --> 01:10:55.449
you're like, oh, well, I see how this started.

01:10:55.729 --> 01:10:57.489
It was the British, it was the Americans, it

01:10:57.489 --> 01:11:00.270
was the French, the Spanish, whoever. But the

01:11:00.270 --> 01:11:04.250
reaction is, of course, you want revenge. You

01:11:04.250 --> 01:11:06.930
want to fight back. Someone came to your house

01:11:06.930 --> 01:11:09.149
and they put a brick through your window and

01:11:09.149 --> 01:11:11.729
you want to go back over there. But what was,

01:11:11.770 --> 01:11:15.180
I think, so... unfair is even the way it was

01:11:15.180 --> 01:11:17.420
told to the american people is oh we're going

01:11:17.420 --> 01:11:20.920
to iraq because of 9 11. the average person that

01:11:20.920 --> 01:11:23.380
was the messaging and i was like wait a second

01:11:23.380 --> 01:11:25.539
if we attack someone the person shouldn't be

01:11:25.539 --> 01:11:28.359
going to canada to retaliate you know it's a

01:11:28.359 --> 01:11:29.979
different complete different country so that's

01:11:29.979 --> 01:11:33.119
what i thought was irresponsible it's like if

01:11:33.119 --> 01:11:35.180
you want to go to Iraq that's fine but don't

01:11:35.180 --> 01:11:37.739
lump it in with the 9 -11 response with all these

01:11:37.739 --> 01:11:39.619
angry young men that want to get back at what

01:11:39.619 --> 01:11:42.520
happened to our soil that needs to be compartmentalized

01:11:42.520 --> 01:11:45.579
and say hey side quest we're also going to go

01:11:45.579 --> 01:11:48.439
and finish what my dad started you know that's

01:11:48.439 --> 01:11:50.640
a whole separate thing who's in for that I don't

01:11:50.640 --> 01:11:52.399
think you would have had the same amount of support

01:11:52.399 --> 01:11:55.060
for that particular one but absolutely the hunt

01:11:55.060 --> 01:11:57.520
for bin Laden and You know, the response to 9

01:11:57.520 --> 01:12:00.460
-11, you totally understand why people are chomping

01:12:00.460 --> 01:12:02.779
at the bit because they were upset and angry.

01:12:03.319 --> 01:12:07.359
100%. Yeah. And like, the bottom line is when

01:12:07.359 --> 01:12:11.500
we, you know, what was it, 2001 and then 2003.

01:12:11.640 --> 01:12:14.680
So two years that we're in, we're in Afghanistan,

01:12:14.899 --> 01:12:17.500
you're making some significant headway. And then

01:12:17.500 --> 01:12:20.550
like. Iraqi freedom kicks off. A lot of those

01:12:20.550 --> 01:12:24.069
resources get shifted from Afghanistan to Iraq

01:12:24.069 --> 01:12:27.810
and, you know, to to front or like, you know,

01:12:27.810 --> 01:12:30.229
strategically, we should we should never been

01:12:30.229 --> 01:12:33.689
putting ourselves in that that position. You

01:12:33.689 --> 01:12:35.989
know, and like I said, like it's brutal. Saddam

01:12:35.989 --> 01:12:39.130
was he was he kept everyone in check from a regional,

01:12:39.229 --> 01:12:43.560
I guess. stability standpoint you know because

01:12:43.560 --> 01:12:45.340
once you took them out it was just like a free

01:12:45.340 --> 01:12:47.439
-for -all you know like same in Libya like Qaddafi

01:12:47.439 --> 01:12:50.800
right we took Qaddafi out look at Libya power

01:12:50.800 --> 01:12:54.539
vacuum complete vacuum like you know these dictators

01:12:54.539 --> 01:12:57.079
are brutal but like when it comes to our national

01:12:57.079 --> 01:12:59.000
security security interests like it might be

01:12:59.000 --> 01:13:01.899
best to just you know leave them there because

01:13:01.899 --> 01:13:04.520
you know you take them out we create these vacuums

01:13:04.520 --> 01:13:06.500
and then we got these these terrorist groups

01:13:06.500 --> 01:13:09.300
emerging and this and that and like it just becomes

01:13:09.300 --> 01:13:13.479
too much, you know? So I'm not advocating for

01:13:13.479 --> 01:13:16.439
Saddam or Gaddafi, but, you know, like, I think

01:13:16.439 --> 01:13:18.579
you get the drift from a national, you have to,

01:13:18.619 --> 01:13:24.319
and that's, that's, that's, there's national

01:13:24.319 --> 01:13:27.180
security interests. Like you, when you make decisions

01:13:27.180 --> 01:13:30.800
on a strategic level, you really have to, you

01:13:30.800 --> 01:13:34.720
know, think long and hard on what are the national

01:13:34.720 --> 01:13:38.380
security implications if we do this. And you

01:13:38.380 --> 01:13:40.880
just got to think that through. And we don't

01:13:40.880 --> 01:13:43.000
have a good track record. Like I said, the Berlin

01:13:43.000 --> 01:13:46.079
Wall was falling, and we didn't know until the

01:13:46.079 --> 01:13:48.819
bricks were hitting us on our head. We historically

01:13:48.819 --> 01:13:54.060
have a bad track record of predicting what's

01:13:54.060 --> 01:13:57.340
going to happen if we do this or predicting something.

01:13:57.699 --> 01:14:03.260
So, yeah, it's crazy, crazy for sure. Well, what's

01:14:03.260 --> 01:14:06.260
strange, I went on a cruise a little while ago

01:14:06.260 --> 01:14:08.560
and we went to Labadee, which is this island

01:14:08.560 --> 01:14:11.359
right off Haiti that Royal Caribbean, I think,

01:14:11.359 --> 01:14:14.180
leases, owns, whatever the thing is. And there's

01:14:14.180 --> 01:14:17.460
literally this Jurassic Park -sized fence and

01:14:17.460 --> 01:14:20.220
the ship comedian referred to it as fake Haiti

01:14:20.220 --> 01:14:23.140
because the actual Haitian island, obviously,

01:14:23.199 --> 01:14:26.779
sadly, is devastated by violence and apparently

01:14:26.779 --> 01:14:30.270
deforestation because they've... used everything

01:14:30.270 --> 01:14:33.010
for fires and cooking and all the things. And

01:14:33.010 --> 01:14:35.989
that's on my doorstep here in Florida. And then

01:14:35.989 --> 01:14:38.670
you look at Mexico and the impact of drug prohibition

01:14:38.670 --> 01:14:41.710
and the massive consumer that we are in the US

01:14:41.710 --> 01:14:43.689
of the illicit drug trade and what that's done

01:14:43.689 --> 01:14:47.949
to Colombia and El Salvador and Mexico. And those

01:14:47.949 --> 01:14:51.130
are far more of a local threat. And I don't understand

01:14:51.130 --> 01:14:54.350
why these resources aren't put into reverse engineering.

01:14:55.080 --> 01:14:58.159
why, you know, we're creating that level of crime

01:14:58.159 --> 01:15:00.760
on our doorstep rather than, as you said, you

01:15:00.760 --> 01:15:03.399
know, thousands of miles away, destabilizing

01:15:03.399 --> 01:15:06.500
a nation in the Middle East. Right. Right. 100%.

01:15:06.500 --> 01:15:12.319
Yeah. Valid. Yep. So with Iraq, I've heard the

01:15:12.319 --> 01:15:15.979
same exact thing that you have just kind of said

01:15:15.979 --> 01:15:18.600
yourself as far as a lot of our warriors, they

01:15:18.600 --> 01:15:20.779
were like, you know, including some of the Afghani

01:15:20.779 --> 01:15:24.020
people out on the show. We were almost to the

01:15:24.020 --> 01:15:25.960
point where we were going to overthrow the Taliban,

01:15:26.060 --> 01:15:29.159
and then all the support went out to Iraq instead.

01:15:29.819 --> 01:15:32.779
I've also heard, as far as the intelligence point

01:15:32.779 --> 01:15:38.239
of view, that there was a woeful lack of understanding

01:15:38.239 --> 01:15:40.819
of the tribalism and the cultures, and that put

01:15:40.819 --> 01:15:42.939
a lot of our people on the back foot too. So

01:15:42.939 --> 01:15:45.439
from an intelligence point of view, again, talk

01:15:45.439 --> 01:15:49.260
to me about Afghanistan now. Yeah, so it's funny.

01:15:50.859 --> 01:15:53.220
A lot of people asked me before I went out there,

01:15:53.279 --> 01:15:55.479
like, hey, you know, should we be out there still?

01:15:55.600 --> 01:15:57.640
And I'm like, look, I'm not saying anything until

01:15:57.640 --> 01:16:01.619
I go out there for a year and do my thing. But

01:16:01.619 --> 01:16:04.239
having been out there and, you know, the same

01:16:04.239 --> 01:16:06.340
unit that Jeff was at, you know, I just happened,

01:16:06.479 --> 01:16:09.039
I missed him by a couple weeks. But, you know,

01:16:09.079 --> 01:16:10.739
I was the commander special agent in charge of

01:16:10.739 --> 01:16:12.939
that unit out there, you know. And, you know,

01:16:12.939 --> 01:16:15.520
again, it's kind of like, you know, what we did

01:16:15.520 --> 01:16:18.050
out there. Basically kind of like taking a drug

01:16:18.050 --> 01:16:19.890
network down, but with terrorists. We're building

01:16:19.890 --> 01:16:22.109
target packages, working with Tier 1 operators,

01:16:22.510 --> 01:16:26.609
soft guys to capture or kill these guys, insurgents,

01:16:26.609 --> 01:16:30.149
terrorists. Our primary job was to keep the air

01:16:30.149 --> 01:16:32.970
base green. Because if the planes stop flying,

01:16:33.489 --> 01:16:36.390
bad stuff happens. So we have to keep the air,

01:16:36.449 --> 01:16:37.989
we call it green, keeping the airfield green.

01:16:38.470 --> 01:16:41.090
Got to keep it clean and going and keep those

01:16:41.090 --> 01:16:43.409
planes flying. So that was our job at our unit

01:16:43.409 --> 01:16:47.500
out there. um to mitigate um all the attacks

01:16:47.500 --> 01:16:51.800
um whether outside ieds or mortars coming in

01:16:51.800 --> 01:16:54.359
and basically just finding all those bad guys

01:16:54.359 --> 01:16:56.060
that are doing all that stuff to keep the airfield

01:16:56.060 --> 01:16:59.680
green so noble mission awesome you know dangerous

01:16:59.680 --> 01:17:03.560
um had a lot of close calls out there um but

01:17:03.560 --> 01:17:07.430
um you know we were we were providing the um,

01:17:07.430 --> 01:17:10.050
informant network, you know, in conjunction with

01:17:10.050 --> 01:17:12.989
all the other intelligence disciplines out there,

01:17:13.050 --> 01:17:15.449
you know, you got your, um, all your intelligence,

01:17:15.670 --> 01:17:19.550
um, you know, signals, intelligence, imagery,

01:17:19.670 --> 01:17:21.390
this and that, you know, we're providing the

01:17:21.390 --> 01:17:24.109
human intelligence aspect, you know, to that,

01:17:24.130 --> 01:17:27.329
you know, um, intelligence fusion to, you know,

01:17:27.329 --> 01:17:30.510
find, hey, insurgent terrorist is going to be.

01:17:31.130 --> 01:17:33.329
here this date time location you know and then

01:17:33.329 --> 01:17:36.689
we give that target package to a direct action

01:17:36.689 --> 01:17:41.250
unit and they uh they go execute it um so we

01:17:41.250 --> 01:17:46.350
we ran a lot of informants in our our our unit

01:17:46.350 --> 01:17:50.430
um out in the local populace um you know and

01:17:50.430 --> 01:17:52.210
i even as a commander i was running like very

01:17:52.210 --> 01:17:55.609
high level guys you know um and i would say out

01:17:55.609 --> 01:17:58.050
of the high very high level guys that i was you

01:17:58.050 --> 01:18:02.399
know working with um And, you know, my people

01:18:02.399 --> 01:18:04.100
that were working for me, they were working like

01:18:04.100 --> 01:18:07.560
the other sources out there that, you know, at

01:18:07.560 --> 01:18:09.420
the lower level, what have you. I was like working

01:18:09.420 --> 01:18:11.380
more like the government level guys, you know,

01:18:11.399 --> 01:18:16.460
obviously. But, yeah, to your point, it's just

01:18:16.460 --> 01:18:20.880
there's very probably out of all the sources

01:18:20.880 --> 01:18:22.399
we have in our books, maybe a couple of them

01:18:22.399 --> 01:18:24.699
that that flag of Afghanistan meant something

01:18:24.699 --> 01:18:27.840
to them. Other than that, it was all tribes,

01:18:27.880 --> 01:18:32.949
family and money. that's it um you know so there's

01:18:32.949 --> 01:18:36.689
really no sense of nationalism out there um so

01:18:36.689 --> 01:18:38.750
trying to if you think about it from that just

01:18:38.750 --> 01:18:41.689
just that stamp that same point alone like trying

01:18:41.689 --> 01:18:46.050
to install like a democratic yo institution there

01:18:46.050 --> 01:18:48.489
like it just wasn't gonna happen i was like trying

01:18:48.489 --> 01:18:51.689
to fit a round peg in a square hole like this

01:18:51.689 --> 01:18:53.869
wasn't gonna happen so why we even tried to do

01:18:53.869 --> 01:18:58.170
it is like beyond me um you know so I left there

01:18:58.170 --> 01:19:01.470
after my year. Again, gratifying job. You see

01:19:01.470 --> 01:19:04.350
the fruits of your labor every day when you capture

01:19:04.350 --> 01:19:06.909
a guy, you further exploit the network, go capture

01:19:06.909 --> 01:19:09.710
some more dudes, you know, or, you know, suppress

01:19:09.710 --> 01:19:12.529
an insider attack on the base, this and that.

01:19:14.010 --> 01:19:16.029
Gratifying. You see the fruits of your labor

01:19:16.029 --> 01:19:19.229
every day. And my team was absolutely phenomenal.

01:19:19.390 --> 01:19:21.170
Certainly nothing I did. I just kind of led the

01:19:21.170 --> 01:19:22.989
vision and, you know, took care of my guys and

01:19:22.989 --> 01:19:25.420
they made it all happen. Like, you know. we got

01:19:25.420 --> 01:19:27.640
all sorts of awards and did great stuff out there.

01:19:28.539 --> 01:19:30.539
But when I got on the plane to come back and

01:19:30.539 --> 01:19:33.300
I'm like, yeah, we shouldn't be here any longer.

01:19:33.359 --> 01:19:35.800
You know, like how, why we've been here as long

01:19:35.800 --> 01:19:38.500
as we have is, is beyond me. Like, you know,

01:19:38.500 --> 01:19:41.000
fast forward to the withdrawal. Like that was

01:19:41.000 --> 01:19:45.199
a complete debacle. Like I, I was infuriated

01:19:45.199 --> 01:19:49.939
on how that all went down. A lot of my counterparts

01:19:49.939 --> 01:19:52.479
who serve in Afghanistan with me, they share

01:19:52.479 --> 01:19:54.119
the same sentiment. I'm sure you've talked to

01:19:54.119 --> 01:19:57.939
several guys like Jeff. I've talked about it.

01:19:58.420 --> 01:20:01.680
It's infuriating how it all went down. It shouldn't

01:20:01.680 --> 01:20:03.960
have gone down the way it did. Granted, we need

01:20:03.960 --> 01:20:05.460
to get the heck out of there, but there's a smart

01:20:05.460 --> 01:20:08.260
way to do it. We did not do that. We did it the

01:20:08.260 --> 01:20:13.239
wrong way. left a lot of people high and dry

01:20:13.239 --> 01:20:17.000
um just it was all bad how we left there um needed

01:20:17.000 --> 01:20:20.699
to be done but we needed to do it a much um more

01:20:20.699 --> 01:20:23.920
methodical uh manner and it didn't go down the

01:20:23.920 --> 01:20:26.680
way it should have um we had a plan in place

01:20:26.680 --> 01:20:30.439
and it was just basically aborted and the administration

01:20:30.439 --> 01:20:32.960
did their thing and it was a complete you know

01:20:32.960 --> 01:20:37.079
disaster um but uh yeah that's kind of my thoughts

01:20:37.079 --> 01:20:38.800
on afghanistan we never should have been there

01:20:38.800 --> 01:20:43.449
as long as we were And once we obtained our objectives,

01:20:43.810 --> 01:20:48.949
you know, I was actually there when we got Bin

01:20:48.949 --> 01:20:50.909
Laden. Yeah, I mean, I didn't know about it.

01:20:50.909 --> 01:20:52.789
Obviously, it was a very tight -knit group that

01:20:52.789 --> 01:20:56.909
knew about it. But, yeah, I was in country. And,

01:20:56.909 --> 01:20:59.109
you know, those guys were training at Jollibee.

01:20:59.289 --> 01:21:01.090
And they were probably doing training at Bagram

01:21:01.090 --> 01:21:03.289
where I was during the time frame. And then,

01:21:03.369 --> 01:21:05.670
you know, but once we... achieved our objective

01:21:05.670 --> 01:21:08.930
of removing the Taliban and, you know, getting

01:21:08.930 --> 01:21:12.090
rid of a lot of terrorists out of there and getting

01:21:12.090 --> 01:21:14.909
Osama bin Laden, we probably should have left.

01:21:15.050 --> 01:21:18.550
But we stuck around and I don't really get, I

01:21:18.550 --> 01:21:20.710
mean, we need to maintain some sort of presence

01:21:20.710 --> 01:21:23.189
there, a limited presence, obviously in a counterterrorism

01:21:23.189 --> 01:21:27.529
capacity. You know, but, you know, not as many

01:21:27.529 --> 01:21:29.350
boots on the ground that we did for so long,

01:21:29.390 --> 01:21:33.260
for sure. Yeah. I've listened to so many people.

01:21:33.300 --> 01:21:35.439
I've had hundreds of veterans on here now from

01:21:35.439 --> 01:21:38.619
that particular conflict. And the moral injury

01:21:38.619 --> 01:21:42.159
that comes from either being told there were

01:21:42.159 --> 01:21:44.260
WMDs and all these other things in Iraq or whether

01:21:44.260 --> 01:21:46.500
it was Afghanistan and the way the withdrawal

01:21:46.500 --> 01:21:48.680
happened and all the allies that we left behind

01:21:48.680 --> 01:21:51.819
that were beheaded and the families murdered,

01:21:52.060 --> 01:21:56.039
just brutal. So when you look at this generation

01:21:56.039 --> 01:21:59.430
of warfighters that came home. You know, unlike

01:21:59.430 --> 01:22:01.689
Vietnam, which, again, you talk about moral injury,

01:22:01.810 --> 01:22:03.829
those poor men and women that were spat on and

01:22:03.829 --> 01:22:05.329
pissed on and all these things when they come

01:22:05.329 --> 01:22:08.609
back, compare that to World War Two, which even

01:22:08.609 --> 01:22:10.569
if they didn't have the ticker tape parades,

01:22:10.590 --> 01:22:12.789
a lot of them didn't. They just came back. They

01:22:12.789 --> 01:22:16.310
weren't you know, they weren't they were still

01:22:16.310 --> 01:22:18.329
honored for what they did. The U .S. was still

01:22:18.329 --> 01:22:20.989
proud of them. And then you compare and contrast

01:22:20.989 --> 01:22:23.710
Vietnam, which was the opposite. And then you

01:22:23.710 --> 01:22:25.970
had this generation, which really they came home.

01:22:26.029 --> 01:22:28.489
They were. You know, there was almost that virtue

01:22:28.489 --> 01:22:32.210
signaling of, you know, us being proud. But the

01:22:32.210 --> 01:22:34.369
reality was our actions didn't mirror that because

01:22:34.369 --> 01:22:37.470
we allowed certain people in government positions

01:22:37.470 --> 01:22:41.189
to ultimately betray our men and women in uniform

01:22:41.189 --> 01:22:44.090
and why they were sent there. So I think it's

01:22:44.090 --> 01:22:46.310
imperative that we take care of that generation

01:22:46.310 --> 01:22:49.090
of people because we asked them to do one thing.

01:22:49.130 --> 01:22:51.689
They lost people. They might have even ended

01:22:51.689 --> 01:22:53.750
up, you know, killing innocent civilians in whatever

01:22:53.750 --> 01:22:56.350
actions they were doing. They come home and then

01:22:56.350 --> 01:22:57.689
we're like, oh, yeah. And by the way, actually,

01:22:57.729 --> 01:23:00.189
we lied about X, Y and Z. Well, we shouldn't

01:23:00.189 --> 01:23:02.069
have been there for as long as we were. So I

01:23:02.069 --> 01:23:03.890
think this is an important conversation because

01:23:03.890 --> 01:23:06.470
we can't roll time back, but we can damn well

01:23:06.470 --> 01:23:08.590
learn from our mistakes and make sure it doesn't

01:23:08.590 --> 01:23:10.970
happen in the next conflict. God forbid we have

01:23:10.970 --> 01:23:13.770
another one. Yeah, correct. I mean, I, you know,

01:23:13.789 --> 01:23:17.869
I got my left Afghanistan. I was like, yes. Country

01:23:17.869 --> 01:23:20.829
doesn't deserve another drop of American blood.

01:23:20.909 --> 01:23:22.270
Again, it goes back to the national security

01:23:22.270 --> 01:23:28.430
interests. Our strategic leaders, presidential,

01:23:28.989 --> 01:23:33.390
all the cabinet, they really need to think about

01:23:33.390 --> 01:23:35.850
the national strategic implications of every

01:23:35.850 --> 01:23:38.970
decision that they make and really think it out

01:23:38.970 --> 01:23:43.430
because it's a fine line. You make the wrong

01:23:43.430 --> 01:23:47.289
strategic decision. huge implications um for

01:23:47.289 --> 01:23:51.029
sure um you know and i think you're you're i

01:23:51.029 --> 01:23:53.649
think you're kind of dovetailing into like you

01:23:53.649 --> 01:23:57.529
know now that you know how to how do we take

01:23:57.529 --> 01:24:00.550
care of our our veterans and all that stuff like

01:24:00.550 --> 01:24:03.750
post -war you know um so on and so forth and

01:24:03.750 --> 01:24:06.510
um i think that's where you're going right is

01:24:06.510 --> 01:24:08.430
that where you're heading well we can go there

01:24:08.430 --> 01:24:10.529
i'm i've got another question but let's go there

01:24:10.529 --> 01:24:13.510
now and i'll show you around yeah um you know

01:24:13.510 --> 01:24:16.550
i think you know um I'm still involved with a

01:24:16.550 --> 01:24:21.750
nonprofit called Veterans Villages. It's a nonprofit

01:24:21.750 --> 01:24:26.369
to provide affordable, safe, and sustainable

01:24:26.369 --> 01:24:30.630
housing for homeless veterans. There's 40 ,000

01:24:30.630 --> 01:24:32.750
homeless veterans in our country right now, which

01:24:32.750 --> 01:24:37.750
is unconscionable to me. It's an epidemic. I'll

01:24:37.750 --> 01:24:41.420
call it an epidemic. And it's just crazy that

01:24:41.420 --> 01:24:43.880
these people, you know, they write a blank check

01:24:43.880 --> 01:24:47.119
to the U .S. government. And, you know, we have

01:24:47.119 --> 01:24:50.279
these people out and homeless with no roof over

01:24:50.279 --> 01:24:53.100
their head. It's just crazy to me. So Veterans

01:24:53.100 --> 01:24:56.699
Villages and other organizations out there focus

01:24:56.699 --> 01:24:59.659
a lot of efforts on trying to mitigate that crisis

01:24:59.659 --> 01:25:04.920
epidemic. But my greater point here is I think.

01:25:06.189 --> 01:25:09.029
You know, even transitioning out of the military

01:25:09.029 --> 01:25:11.750
and the civilian sector for like a job. OK, like

01:25:11.750 --> 01:25:13.970
my bottom line is, is like the military does

01:25:13.970 --> 01:25:17.050
a great job of training us to go to combat, this

01:25:17.050 --> 01:25:20.130
and that. You know, we'll have some hiccups here

01:25:20.130 --> 01:25:22.710
and there, like the lack of armor and the deaths

01:25:22.710 --> 01:25:25.130
from IEDs and stuff like that. You know, we'll

01:25:25.130 --> 01:25:27.109
have some hiccups, you know, here and there.

01:25:27.489 --> 01:25:30.630
But, you know, bottom line, do a great job to

01:25:30.630 --> 01:25:34.800
train us to fight and win wars. On the flip side,

01:25:34.939 --> 01:25:37.020
when we come back and transition into civilian

01:25:37.020 --> 01:25:40.779
society, you know, we don't do too well, you

01:25:40.779 --> 01:25:43.180
know, as a country. And it's kind of a three

01:25:43.180 --> 01:25:46.460
-pronged, you know, type problem. Like the individual

01:25:46.460 --> 01:25:49.000
veteran themselves has to better prepare themselves

01:25:49.000 --> 01:25:52.220
to transition into civilian society. That's incumbent

01:25:52.220 --> 01:25:54.880
upon me as a retired veteran or any transitioning

01:25:54.880 --> 01:25:57.840
service member. But the federal government has

01:25:57.840 --> 01:26:00.130
to do a better job. you know and the commercial

01:26:00.130 --> 01:26:02.289
sector has to do a better job and i'm talking

01:26:02.289 --> 01:26:05.270
specifically just transitioning itself so i don't

01:26:05.270 --> 01:26:07.350
think enough emphasis is being placed in the

01:26:07.350 --> 01:26:13.630
commercial market on like what traits that veterans

01:26:13.630 --> 01:26:15.989
bring to the table in a corporate environment

01:26:17.789 --> 01:26:20.149
immense benefits right you know just the intrinsics

01:26:20.149 --> 01:26:23.010
like the hard work ethic the the camaraderie

01:26:23.010 --> 01:26:26.409
the teamwork um communication skills you know

01:26:26.409 --> 01:26:28.590
innovative thinking you know i can go on and

01:26:28.590 --> 01:26:30.449
on about the intrinsic skills that we bring to

01:26:30.449 --> 01:26:33.449
the table from from wearing the uniform um but

01:26:33.449 --> 01:26:35.329
corporate america doesn't really do a good job

01:26:35.329 --> 01:26:37.350
on educating themselves on that and like you

01:26:37.350 --> 01:26:39.090
know really trying to think hey you know we could

01:26:39.090 --> 01:26:41.909
bring this veteran in and you know make them

01:26:41.909 --> 01:26:44.689
do this role for us and they'll excel, you know,

01:26:44.689 --> 01:26:46.869
so on and so forth. But the federal government

01:26:46.869 --> 01:26:48.850
has to do a better job as well. You know, we

01:26:48.850 --> 01:26:51.029
just, we do, again, like my bottom line is we

01:26:51.029 --> 01:26:53.789
do a great job in sending us out to foreign wars

01:26:53.789 --> 01:26:56.189
and this and that, do our thing. But on the flip

01:26:56.189 --> 01:26:58.270
side, when we were out of the service, it's just

01:26:58.270 --> 01:27:00.470
kind of like, we don't do too well in taking

01:27:00.470 --> 01:27:02.390
care of our veterans out there and we need to

01:27:02.390 --> 01:27:04.970
do a better job. in the federal government, the

01:27:04.970 --> 01:27:07.050
corporate America. And again, a lot of it's on

01:27:07.050 --> 01:27:10.550
the veteran itself, but you know, that's just

01:27:10.550 --> 01:27:12.250
one thing I wanted to throw out there. And that's,

01:27:12.250 --> 01:27:15.369
that's why I'm involved in veterans villages

01:27:15.369 --> 01:27:19.390
in the nonprofit world to help my veterans brothers

01:27:19.390 --> 01:27:21.250
and sisters out there. Cause it's like 40 ,000

01:27:21.250 --> 01:27:23.970
homeless veterans. It's just, it's atrocious.

01:27:24.149 --> 01:27:26.050
It's crazy. A lot of people, when I say this

01:27:26.050 --> 01:27:28.069
statistic, people aren't, people aren't tracking

01:27:28.069 --> 01:27:30.989
that. They're like, wow, 40 ,000. That's just,

01:27:31.010 --> 01:27:34.789
that's just, it's crazy. It's way too many. We

01:27:34.789 --> 01:27:36.930
should have zero, right? Like none. Like that

01:27:36.930 --> 01:27:40.069
should be the goal. Zero, you know? So, but you

01:27:40.069 --> 01:27:43.409
know, here we are. So yeah. Anyway, I just, I

01:27:43.409 --> 01:27:44.670
wanted to say that a little tidbit because I

01:27:44.670 --> 01:27:46.430
thought that's where you're, you're heading with

01:27:46.430 --> 01:27:48.930
the, you know, post -service type stuff. Yeah.

01:27:49.510 --> 01:27:51.449
Yeah, absolutely. I've got it on the list. We

01:27:51.449 --> 01:27:52.649
were definitely going to get there. So I'm glad

01:27:52.649 --> 01:27:55.750
we did then. Another thing that's really, you

01:27:55.750 --> 01:27:57.789
know, you have over a thousand conversations

01:27:57.789 --> 01:28:01.260
with people. There's some truths really immerse,

01:28:01.260 --> 01:28:02.920
you know, where these Venn diagram lines are

01:28:02.920 --> 01:28:05.220
all crossing over and over and over again. And

01:28:05.220 --> 01:28:08.340
one is when you transition out of the military

01:28:08.340 --> 01:28:10.539
or you transition out of a first responder profession

01:28:10.539 --> 01:28:16.500
and you go into a sales job or, you know, it

01:28:16.500 --> 01:28:19.159
might be real estate or something, you know,

01:28:19.159 --> 01:28:22.619
that is very money focused and that kind of arena.

01:28:23.920 --> 01:28:26.100
I think we have a lot of our men and women that

01:28:26.100 --> 01:28:28.180
just they don't feel fulfilled and they still

01:28:28.180 --> 01:28:30.079
struggle. And I think we're missing the point

01:28:30.079 --> 01:28:33.600
is that this person had the kindness and compassion

01:28:33.600 --> 01:28:35.720
to want to make the world better, to want to

01:28:35.720 --> 01:28:37.720
be the protector, to want to respond to someone's

01:28:37.720 --> 01:28:40.619
worst day. And so it's more than just giving

01:28:40.619 --> 01:28:43.560
them a job when they come out. It's carrying

01:28:43.560 --> 01:28:46.159
on the mission. The mission isn't you are not

01:28:46.159 --> 01:28:48.300
a Marine. You are not a firefighter. It's what

01:28:48.300 --> 01:28:49.739
you did, even though the Marines don't like hearing

01:28:49.739 --> 01:28:52.579
that. It's what we did. what you are is is a

01:28:52.579 --> 01:28:55.520
courageous selfless human being right that wants

01:28:55.520 --> 01:28:57.539
to make the world better so where i've heard

01:28:57.539 --> 01:29:00.340
over and over again successful transition stories

01:29:00.340 --> 01:29:04.899
is finding that you know work environment but

01:29:04.899 --> 01:29:06.979
with an organization that there's an element

01:29:06.979 --> 01:29:08.920
of it that's actually making the world better

01:29:08.920 --> 01:29:11.279
so you feel like you're continuing your human

01:29:11.279 --> 01:29:14.539
mission correct yeah 100 i would definitely agree

01:29:14.539 --> 01:29:18.819
with that like uh um and that a lot of time in

01:29:18.819 --> 01:29:23.220
corporate america like that's I miss that sense

01:29:23.220 --> 01:29:25.899
of camaraderie. I miss OSI. I miss leading the

01:29:25.899 --> 01:29:28.079
people I did in OSI. It's all about the people,

01:29:28.159 --> 01:29:30.260
right? The people were phenomenal. I worked with

01:29:30.260 --> 01:29:34.680
every culture, color, creed you could think of.

01:29:34.800 --> 01:29:37.100
And to be in the military, it's a complete melting

01:29:37.100 --> 01:29:40.819
pot. But the mission's the same. You're all focused

01:29:40.819 --> 01:29:42.500
on the mission. You all work together. You get

01:29:42.500 --> 01:29:45.319
the mission done, so on and so forth. Um, but,

01:29:45.420 --> 01:29:47.659
um, yeah, you, you lose that when you, when you,

01:29:47.699 --> 01:29:49.800
when you leave a service or, you know, first

01:29:49.800 --> 01:29:52.779
responder community, um, so on and so forth.

01:29:52.880 --> 01:29:56.020
Like I know a couple of my friends, um, you know,

01:29:56.039 --> 01:29:57.680
that kind of went, went into your, your domain

01:29:57.680 --> 01:30:00.399
of the fire department after, you know, leaving

01:30:00.399 --> 01:30:02.060
the military and they love it. They absolutely

01:30:02.060 --> 01:30:03.880
love it because you have that camaraderie, you

01:30:03.880 --> 01:30:05.880
have that sense of brotherhood, sisterhood and

01:30:05.880 --> 01:30:08.779
so on and so forth. Um, you know, but you don't

01:30:08.779 --> 01:30:10.760
have a lot of that in corporate America. I, I,

01:30:10.760 --> 01:30:13.859
I gravitate towards. If you look at since I've

01:30:13.859 --> 01:30:18.119
retired, a lot of my post -retirement jobs have

01:30:18.119 --> 01:30:21.279
been in government consulting or so on and so

01:30:21.279 --> 01:30:23.840
forth because a lot of retired military folks

01:30:23.840 --> 01:30:26.000
go work for those companies. So I still have

01:30:26.000 --> 01:30:28.460
like -minded people there because I'm with kind

01:30:28.460 --> 01:30:33.819
of my people because we all think alike. We know

01:30:33.819 --> 01:30:36.079
how to get something done. There's intrinsic

01:30:36.079 --> 01:30:38.359
skills that we all bring to the table. You want

01:30:38.359 --> 01:30:41.840
to be with your tribe, right? Um, yeah, it's,

01:30:41.840 --> 01:30:43.720
it's, uh, but it's, it's, it's easier said than

01:30:43.720 --> 01:30:47.560
done, you know? So, um, you know, the, uh, the

01:30:47.560 --> 01:30:50.899
homeless population veteran is definitely an

01:30:50.899 --> 01:30:53.140
issue. The suicide's definitely an issue, you

01:30:53.140 --> 01:30:55.560
know, 22 a day. It's actually like 30 something

01:30:55.560 --> 01:30:58.220
a day actually is the real statistic, which is

01:30:58.220 --> 01:31:01.659
crazy in and of itself as well. Um, unfortunately

01:31:01.659 --> 01:31:04.539
I've, I had troops that worked for me. My number

01:31:04.539 --> 01:31:06.460
one job in Afghanistan was to get everyone home

01:31:06.460 --> 01:31:08.319
alive, you know, and I did, you know, during

01:31:08.319 --> 01:31:11.840
my year career there. I achieved that goal. That

01:31:11.840 --> 01:31:13.760
was my number one goal. But, you know, unfortunately,

01:31:13.859 --> 01:31:15.819
a couple of my troops that work for me out there

01:31:15.819 --> 01:31:19.460
have since committed suicide. You know, I feel

01:31:19.460 --> 01:31:21.659
that on a personal level. That's tough. Like,

01:31:21.760 --> 01:31:24.520
you know, like, you know, I talked to my deputy

01:31:24.520 --> 01:31:26.199
about it. I'm like, hey, man, I was like, had

01:31:26.199 --> 01:31:27.760
there's one of those either one of those guys

01:31:27.760 --> 01:31:29.739
giving us a call, you and I would have been on

01:31:29.739 --> 01:31:32.000
the next flight out there to be there for them.

01:31:32.060 --> 01:31:34.239
He's like, yeah, he's like, boss, I hear you,

01:31:34.300 --> 01:31:36.619
but you can't save everybody. I get it. But.

01:31:37.079 --> 01:31:39.520
Um, you know, it's still, it's tough, tough pill

01:31:39.520 --> 01:31:42.920
to swallow. Um, you know, and I, I, you know,

01:31:42.920 --> 01:31:46.000
so that two, two guys took their own lives after

01:31:46.000 --> 01:31:49.319
they got home safely. And then, you know, I lost,

01:31:49.359 --> 01:31:52.539
I lost a troop in Iraq when I was the home station

01:31:52.539 --> 01:31:54.560
commander in Utah. And that was, that was real

01:31:54.560 --> 01:31:56.020
tough to deal with, you know, taking care of

01:31:56.020 --> 01:31:59.300
the family and stuff like that. But, um, yeah,

01:31:59.420 --> 01:32:01.800
I mean, it's, it's, we just need to do a better

01:32:01.800 --> 01:32:05.029
job of, of, you know, taking care of our. veterans

01:32:05.029 --> 01:32:08.130
are first responders out there on the, on the

01:32:08.130 --> 01:32:10.729
flip side. And once they're done, you know, hanging

01:32:10.729 --> 01:32:13.449
up their respective uniforms and so on and so

01:32:13.449 --> 01:32:17.350
forth, because, you know, we have a lot of, you

01:32:17.350 --> 01:32:20.810
know, invisible scars, you know, so we just need

01:32:20.810 --> 01:32:22.949
to do a better job collectively, like the 30

01:32:22.949 --> 01:32:25.449
plus a day. It's just, it's just crazy. And the

01:32:25.449 --> 01:32:28.250
40 ,000 homeless, it's just, we just need to

01:32:28.250 --> 01:32:30.390
do a better job collectively. Yeah, for sure.

01:32:32.640 --> 01:32:35.420
What's been interesting over the almost nine

01:32:35.420 --> 01:32:40.239
years now, the podcast, I saw the ripple effect

01:32:40.239 --> 01:32:42.359
of drug prohibition on the streets as a firefighter

01:32:42.359 --> 01:32:44.359
and a paramedic. I pulled the yellow sheets over

01:32:44.359 --> 01:32:46.319
so many people. There was a gang violence attached

01:32:46.319 --> 01:32:48.619
to it, the overdoses, the sex workers, the homelessness,

01:32:48.840 --> 01:32:51.380
et cetera, et cetera. And so as I progressed

01:32:51.380 --> 01:32:54.039
through my career, I'm like, this isn't working.

01:32:54.359 --> 01:32:56.659
This drug prohibition thing that we have, this

01:32:56.659 --> 01:32:59.899
war on drugs, air quotes, is a complete failure.

01:33:01.640 --> 01:33:03.840
And it was funny because my mom had actually

01:33:03.840 --> 01:33:07.260
moved to Portugal a while ago, about 22 years

01:33:07.260 --> 01:33:10.079
ago. So when I got deeper into the podcast, she

01:33:10.079 --> 01:33:11.359
said, well, hey, did you know what we did here

01:33:11.359 --> 01:33:15.880
in Portugal? And about, I think it was about

01:33:15.880 --> 01:33:19.539
20 years ago now. Yeah, it was right around 2000.

01:33:19.760 --> 01:33:22.720
They had a massive opioid crisis because a lot

01:33:22.720 --> 01:33:24.760
of the Portuguese had been sent to one of their

01:33:24.760 --> 01:33:27.989
colonies in Africa for a war. become addicted

01:33:27.989 --> 01:33:29.909
came back and it kind of spreads a very small

01:33:29.909 --> 01:33:33.529
country and at that time they had the worst crisis

01:33:33.529 --> 01:33:35.250
of anywhere certainly in europe i don't know

01:33:35.250 --> 01:33:37.789
if it was the whole world but and it was really

01:33:37.789 --> 01:33:39.090
interesting because going back to what we've

01:33:39.090 --> 01:33:42.130
talked about a lot it was actually it's a very

01:33:42.130 --> 01:33:45.369
truly democratic country where the people really

01:33:45.369 --> 01:33:47.649
have a voice and they put it to the people look

01:33:47.649 --> 01:33:49.250
we've tried this kind of you know what is an

01:33:49.250 --> 01:33:51.949
american model the war on drugs model and it's

01:33:51.949 --> 01:33:55.550
just not working so we are considering making

01:33:55.550 --> 01:33:59.840
addicts medical patients instead of putting them

01:33:59.840 --> 01:34:02.039
in prisons. So they decriminalize. So you can

01:34:02.039 --> 01:34:03.859
go into a store and buy meth and crack and all

01:34:03.859 --> 01:34:06.180
the things. But if you were caught with the user's

01:34:06.180 --> 01:34:08.739
amount, you basically were given an interview

01:34:08.739 --> 01:34:11.319
and it was an educational interview on all the

01:34:11.319 --> 01:34:13.680
resources that are available. It took a huge

01:34:13.680 --> 01:34:15.380
amount of money, which we didn't do in America,

01:34:15.500 --> 01:34:20.300
and put it into drug counseling, mental health

01:34:20.300 --> 01:34:23.739
counseling, job creation, housing. All the things

01:34:23.739 --> 01:34:25.399
that a human being needs to get back on their

01:34:25.399 --> 01:34:27.659
feet. And they reversed it in less than 10 years

01:34:27.659 --> 01:34:30.140
and had the lowest addiction in Europe, if not

01:34:30.140 --> 01:34:33.779
the world. So when we're bringing solutions to

01:34:33.779 --> 01:34:36.119
problems, you know, to me, that's phenomenal.

01:34:36.300 --> 01:34:39.180
Now you layer it. Early in the interview, I would

01:34:39.180 --> 01:34:43.180
ask our war fighters about, you know, the drug

01:34:43.180 --> 01:34:45.680
element in Afghanistan. And it was super tight

01:34:45.680 --> 01:34:47.619
lipped. And I don't know what happened after

01:34:47.619 --> 01:34:50.319
about three years. All of a sudden. I was hearing

01:34:50.319 --> 01:34:52.720
stories of opium fields being told to be burnt,

01:34:52.800 --> 01:34:55.460
not be burnt. And you start to then learn about

01:34:55.460 --> 01:34:58.279
how much of the terrorism that was happening

01:34:58.279 --> 01:35:00.220
against our troops was funded by the illicit

01:35:00.220 --> 01:35:02.899
drug trade. Then you look at the cartels. Then

01:35:02.899 --> 01:35:04.720
you look at the fact that a lot of our people

01:35:04.720 --> 01:35:09.319
are coming home and MDMA and psilocybin and Ibogaine,

01:35:09.359 --> 01:35:11.779
all these air quotes illegal, you know, class

01:35:11.779 --> 01:35:14.279
A drugs are actually healing our first responders

01:35:14.279 --> 01:35:18.220
and military. So James Gearing's opinion is.

01:35:18.859 --> 01:35:21.119
that I feel like, you know, we have to have the

01:35:21.119 --> 01:35:24.100
humility again to say the way we did it isn't

01:35:24.100 --> 01:35:26.100
working. It's been since the 30s. So we're talking

01:35:26.100 --> 01:35:29.239
80 plus years now. And maybe we have to be humble

01:35:29.239 --> 01:35:31.979
enough and look at Portugal and Japan and some

01:35:31.979 --> 01:35:33.420
of these other places that are doing similar

01:35:33.420 --> 01:35:36.859
things and take the addict and put it in the

01:35:36.859 --> 01:35:38.659
hands of the medical community. Because I would

01:35:38.659 --> 01:35:41.840
venture to say that probably a lot of those 40

01:35:41.840 --> 01:35:44.039
,000 veterans have an element of addiction as

01:35:44.039 --> 01:35:46.079
well. And they're in the underworld, they're

01:35:46.079 --> 01:35:48.119
in the shadows because of the shame and the guilt.

01:35:48.359 --> 01:35:50.920
that our laws are put on. Huge monologue before

01:35:50.920 --> 01:35:54.560
this question. Now, taking that all aside, what

01:35:54.560 --> 01:35:57.159
is your perspective of, I'm talking about the

01:35:57.159 --> 01:35:59.800
addict, not the smuggler, not the dealer, putting

01:35:59.800 --> 01:36:01.939
them in the hands of the medical community rather

01:36:01.939 --> 01:36:03.939
than the criminal community that we do at the

01:36:03.939 --> 01:36:06.899
moment? Yeah, I mean, I think if you have a blend

01:36:06.899 --> 01:36:11.779
of both, I'm big on personal accountability,

01:36:12.100 --> 01:36:15.840
but again, I'm also... a firm believer of there's,

01:36:15.840 --> 01:36:17.739
if there's a lesson to be learned out of someone's

01:36:17.739 --> 01:36:20.300
situation, we ought to capitalize on that a hundred

01:36:20.300 --> 01:36:25.560
percent. So to your point, I, you know, the bottom

01:36:25.560 --> 01:36:29.699
line is from my perspective, if we don't, what

01:36:29.699 --> 01:36:32.479
creates the, the, the illicit drug trading demand,

01:36:32.819 --> 01:36:36.359
you know, if we attack the demand, we might have

01:36:36.359 --> 01:36:39.079
a fighting chance, but if we're just not, if

01:36:39.079 --> 01:36:41.380
we're not addressing the demand, then. we're

01:36:41.380 --> 01:36:43.220
kind of peeing in a fan, you know, so you have,

01:36:43.239 --> 01:36:45.859
you have to address the demand. If we don't address

01:36:45.859 --> 01:36:47.899
that, we're just, we're turning a blind eye.

01:36:48.000 --> 01:36:49.800
I mean, you could, you could, you could fight

01:36:49.800 --> 01:36:53.739
drugs till the cows come home, you know, and,

01:36:53.920 --> 01:36:56.119
and not have a real dent unless you attack the

01:36:56.119 --> 01:36:58.600
demand. So I think there's definite merit in

01:36:58.600 --> 01:37:01.739
a, in a model like that. Um, yeah, I appreciate

01:37:01.739 --> 01:37:03.399
you sharing with me cause I wasn't, I wasn't

01:37:03.399 --> 01:37:06.020
tracking that at all. Um, but I think there's

01:37:06.020 --> 01:37:07.720
definitely merit in there. You, you have to,

01:37:07.739 --> 01:37:10.720
you got to do both. Um, but you ever, again,

01:37:10.859 --> 01:37:12.520
like to my earlier point, like everyone has a

01:37:12.520 --> 01:37:14.539
something to bring to the table. Everyone has

01:37:14.539 --> 01:37:17.739
a story to be told. Like if we don't try to extract

01:37:17.739 --> 01:37:20.539
the lessons learned from a drug addict's life

01:37:20.539 --> 01:37:26.350
and apply that to decrease the demand. then we're

01:37:26.350 --> 01:37:29.770
silly. We need to be doing that 100%. I'm just

01:37:29.770 --> 01:37:33.829
a firm believer in that if we don't attack the

01:37:33.829 --> 01:37:36.529
demand, then what are we doing? You have to attack

01:37:36.529 --> 01:37:38.350
that because as long as there's demand in this

01:37:38.350 --> 01:37:39.970
country, it's going to continue to come in here.

01:37:40.470 --> 01:37:42.750
And we can combat it until the calico mode, but

01:37:42.750 --> 01:37:45.350
these cartels aren't stupid. They're very innovative.

01:37:45.529 --> 01:37:48.369
They're very adaptable, just like what used to

01:37:48.369 --> 01:37:50.310
be in the military, improvise, adapt, and overcome.

01:37:50.649 --> 01:37:54.039
Those guys do the same thing. okay they're combating

01:37:54.039 --> 01:37:55.840
drugs this way so we're going to go around this

01:37:55.840 --> 01:37:58.140
way or like i you know i mean saw something like

01:37:58.140 --> 01:37:59.899
you know like there's so much focus on the southern

01:37:59.899 --> 01:38:01.859
border you just bring it up to the north and

01:38:01.859 --> 01:38:04.640
this and that like there's i mean it's as long

01:38:04.640 --> 01:38:07.039
as but as long as there's demand here it's gonna

01:38:07.039 --> 01:38:08.539
it's gonna find its way in because it's very

01:38:08.539 --> 01:38:11.899
profitable you know um it's like the human the

01:38:11.899 --> 01:38:14.260
human traffic the you know epidemic as well i

01:38:14.260 --> 01:38:16.880
mean that's surpassed the drug trade and it's

01:38:16.880 --> 01:38:19.380
a billion dollar industry like there's you know

01:38:19.850 --> 01:38:22.189
Until, same thing, like the drug trade, until

01:38:22.189 --> 01:38:27.569
we shine the light on the demand for, you know,

01:38:27.590 --> 01:38:29.909
I'm talking about children specifically, child

01:38:29.909 --> 01:38:34.210
exploitation, you know, then we're, you know,

01:38:34.270 --> 01:38:38.210
it's a long, long fight, man. It's sad. I mean,

01:38:38.210 --> 01:38:40.510
the drug trafficking thing and the human trafficking

01:38:40.510 --> 01:38:43.489
thing, the child exploitation thing, you know,

01:38:43.529 --> 01:38:46.329
there's demands there. So we have to attack the

01:38:46.329 --> 01:38:49.640
root cause. i .e demand for those things and

01:38:49.640 --> 01:38:52.460
then you know and then combat it from both ends

01:38:52.460 --> 01:38:55.220
essentially hopefully that makes sense yeah no

01:38:55.220 --> 01:38:56.939
it does and that's what i talked about too i

01:38:56.939 --> 01:38:58.319
mean you're cutting the head off the snake with

01:38:58.319 --> 01:39:00.500
the demand we are four percent of the world's

01:39:00.500 --> 01:39:03.579
population and we consume 75 of the world's opioids

01:39:03.579 --> 01:39:07.979
and that arguably was primarily such a you know

01:39:07.979 --> 01:39:10.939
magnified by purdue farmer So you're talking

01:39:10.939 --> 01:39:12.880
about the cartels being clever. Well, they were

01:39:12.880 --> 01:39:15.739
clever. They found all the areas where industry

01:39:15.739 --> 01:39:17.880
had collapsed, you know, West Virginia and Ohio

01:39:17.880 --> 01:39:20.239
and places like that. And they had drug reps

01:39:20.239 --> 01:39:22.600
go to their doctors and they peddled their wares

01:39:22.600 --> 01:39:25.479
and lied about the addiction element. And that

01:39:25.479 --> 01:39:27.760
created the crisis. Then we have pill mills.

01:39:27.760 --> 01:39:29.979
Then those are shut down. Now there's a void

01:39:29.979 --> 01:39:32.039
and you've got people just now in withdrawal.

01:39:32.439 --> 01:39:34.699
And then you have the cartels going, well, we're

01:39:34.699 --> 01:39:36.939
going to go to those places now. Right. And so,

01:39:37.140 --> 01:39:40.159
you know, when you reverse engineer. You know,

01:39:40.180 --> 01:39:42.279
you're blaming this minor because they had a

01:39:42.279 --> 01:39:45.140
back injury and then they got on legal pills.

01:39:45.279 --> 01:39:47.140
And you know what I mean? It's not just some.

01:39:47.220 --> 01:39:50.159
Yeah, I just made bad choices. You know, it's

01:39:50.159 --> 01:39:52.920
far deeper than that. So and even with the money,

01:39:52.979 --> 01:39:56.000
like you free up so many resources if you heal

01:39:56.000 --> 01:39:58.420
your people. Same with the obesity crisis. If

01:39:58.420 --> 01:40:01.020
we actually had a healthy population. you would

01:40:01.020 --> 01:40:03.979
free up arguably trillions of dollars. If we

01:40:03.979 --> 01:40:06.359
stopped going to wars that we didn't and be prepared

01:40:06.359 --> 01:40:08.159
for the ones, God forbid, that we would have

01:40:08.159 --> 01:40:11.380
to. So we still have an armed forces, but they're

01:40:11.380 --> 01:40:13.760
not actually in combat and spending all that

01:40:13.760 --> 01:40:16.439
money. There's even more money then. So it's

01:40:16.439 --> 01:40:19.159
not about more money, it's efficiency and proactivity

01:40:19.159 --> 01:40:21.640
and having the humility to look at Portugal.

01:40:22.329 --> 01:40:24.289
you know, Norway's prison systems, Finland's

01:40:24.289 --> 01:40:27.229
education system, the way Japan feeds their population

01:40:27.229 --> 01:40:29.729
as far as, you know, the schooling and portion

01:40:29.729 --> 01:40:32.630
sizes and just saying, you're doing that really

01:40:32.630 --> 01:40:34.989
well. You know, I know we've said we're the greatest

01:40:34.989 --> 01:40:36.930
country in the world, but actually there's some

01:40:36.930 --> 01:40:39.470
areas we need to improve on. Can you show me

01:40:39.470 --> 01:40:41.449
how to do this? And we'll show you how we do

01:40:41.449 --> 01:40:43.569
this really well. Yeah. it goes back to what

01:40:43.569 --> 01:40:45.109
we were talking about earlier being humble like

01:40:45.109 --> 01:40:47.149
we're not you know we are the greatest country

01:40:47.149 --> 01:40:49.729
on the on the on the planet but like dude we

01:40:49.729 --> 01:40:51.770
you know we could still learn you know we could

01:40:51.770 --> 01:40:54.590
learn from a small country like portugal like

01:40:54.590 --> 01:40:56.489
you know hey they're doing something well hey

01:40:56.489 --> 01:40:58.829
let me pick your brain let me let me let me soak

01:40:58.829 --> 01:41:00.409
it up like a sponge like i was talking earlier

01:41:00.409 --> 01:41:03.109
about my personal experience yeah 100 something

01:41:03.109 --> 01:41:04.729
we learned there we ought to capitalize on it

01:41:04.729 --> 01:41:07.810
sure absolutely yeah well we've talked about

01:41:07.810 --> 01:41:10.210
you know the middle east and the border What

01:41:10.210 --> 01:41:12.390
about domestic terrorism? I've had some interesting

01:41:12.390 --> 01:41:14.510
people on the show talking about white supremacy

01:41:14.510 --> 01:41:16.770
and some of the other kind of groups that also

01:41:16.770 --> 01:41:19.210
potentially could be a danger to our civilians.

01:41:20.069 --> 01:41:24.289
Yeah, I mean, it's funny to bring this up. My

01:41:24.289 --> 01:41:28.350
thesis for my first master's degree was actually

01:41:28.350 --> 01:41:31.409
on this. It was basically educating the general

01:41:31.409 --> 01:41:35.500
public on terrorist indicators. Um, obviously

01:41:35.500 --> 01:41:37.279
terrorists need to do certain things in order

01:41:37.279 --> 01:41:39.779
to carry out attack, like surveillance, solicitation,

01:41:40.079 --> 01:41:43.619
probing security, all that stuff. You know, so

01:41:43.619 --> 01:41:48.000
my, my thesis was really focused on, on, on educating

01:41:48.000 --> 01:41:49.979
the general public who was going to do it, this

01:41:49.979 --> 01:41:55.220
and that. Um, but, um, yeah, it's, um, the domestic

01:41:55.220 --> 01:41:58.319
terrorism piece, like, you know, I think it's,

01:41:58.319 --> 01:42:01.880
it's one of those things that, um, we need to

01:42:01.880 --> 01:42:08.060
keep, uh, tab on you know for sure um and i think

01:42:08.060 --> 01:42:10.279
you know like the white supremacist thing like

01:42:10.279 --> 01:42:14.039
the you know i'm just a back to basics guy like

01:42:14.039 --> 01:42:18.060
these these gangs and the cults and all that

01:42:18.060 --> 01:42:23.180
stuff that that surface that um you know conventionally

01:42:23.180 --> 01:42:25.359
carry out domestic terrorist attacks whatever

01:42:25.359 --> 01:42:28.239
it all boils down to a sense of belonging right

01:42:28.239 --> 01:42:31.760
like and i'm a back to basics guy like if if

01:42:31.760 --> 01:42:34.829
things aren't right in the home then you're gonna

01:42:34.829 --> 01:42:38.350
have you know people wander off and and join

01:42:38.350 --> 01:42:41.789
these groups and you know unfortunately maybe

01:42:41.789 --> 01:42:44.550
carry out a terrorist attack or a mass shooting

01:42:44.550 --> 01:42:46.909
attack like the mass shooting thing that that's

01:42:46.909 --> 01:42:49.430
another epidemic in this country my god like

01:42:49.430 --> 01:42:53.029
how many of those like happen a year so on so

01:42:53.029 --> 01:42:55.789
forth how many people we like that this wasn't

01:42:55.789 --> 01:42:59.329
a thing when i was growing up you know um but

01:42:59.329 --> 01:43:01.869
when you peel the young him back in the aftermath

01:43:01.869 --> 01:43:07.100
like There's indicators there. We need to learn

01:43:07.100 --> 01:43:10.600
from those indicators. A lot of times, these

01:43:10.600 --> 01:43:14.560
people don't have a good home life. They don't

01:43:14.560 --> 01:43:20.159
have a father figure there. Parents are absent.

01:43:21.180 --> 01:43:25.539
I'm a big firm believer in basic roots of family

01:43:25.539 --> 01:43:27.420
life. You've got to have a good environment.

01:43:27.619 --> 01:43:29.399
You're a product of your environment. If your

01:43:29.399 --> 01:43:30.979
environment is shitty, you're going to do shitty

01:43:30.979 --> 01:43:35.760
stuff. You know, so, you know, that just goes

01:43:35.760 --> 01:43:38.359
from the foundational principles of like, you

01:43:38.359 --> 01:43:40.500
know, being good people out there. And it goes

01:43:40.500 --> 01:43:42.380
back to what we were talking about in the beginning,

01:43:42.539 --> 01:43:45.840
like, you know, just being being good people,

01:43:45.939 --> 01:43:49.199
honest and making a positive impact in your community

01:43:49.199 --> 01:43:51.600
every day. Like we've strayed away from that

01:43:51.600 --> 01:43:55.520
from the family standpoint. Families are so jacked

01:43:55.520 --> 01:43:58.279
up out there that we have kids that are joining

01:43:58.279 --> 01:44:00.859
these these cults or gangs that are doing these.

01:44:01.319 --> 01:44:04.039
you know, mass shootings or their mental health

01:44:04.039 --> 01:44:07.279
is, is off the chart and they go shoot up a school

01:44:07.279 --> 01:44:09.560
or something like it's a, it's a travesty. Like

01:44:09.560 --> 01:44:12.300
we shouldn't, we shouldn't even be here. Like,

01:44:12.380 --> 01:44:14.779
it's just a, it's just a lack of parenting in

01:44:14.779 --> 01:44:17.979
my opinion. Like, um, it's all, it all boils

01:44:17.979 --> 01:44:20.359
down to the home and your environment. Like,

01:44:20.380 --> 01:44:23.140
so it's, it's a shame that we even have like

01:44:23.140 --> 01:44:25.220
these whites, your point, white supremacist groups,

01:44:25.260 --> 01:44:28.539
these gangs out there doing that stuff. So, um,

01:44:28.760 --> 01:44:31.939
how do we combat it? We go back to basics. We

01:44:31.939 --> 01:44:34.920
provide good, you know, environments for our

01:44:34.920 --> 01:44:37.279
children, you know, and we bring them up in good,

01:44:37.279 --> 01:44:39.859
you know, foundational families, God, country,

01:44:39.920 --> 01:44:42.500
apple pie, and making your community better,

01:44:42.800 --> 01:44:45.140
et cetera, et cetera. That's how we combat it.

01:44:45.159 --> 01:44:47.939
Just a back to basics approach. But, you know,

01:44:47.960 --> 01:44:49.619
it's just, it's unfortunate that we had this

01:44:49.619 --> 01:44:51.680
stuff. Like, again, the mass shooting thing to

01:44:51.680 --> 01:44:53.640
me is like, that's a whole other topic. Like,

01:44:53.640 --> 01:44:57.739
it's just crazy. The amount of, you know, I...

01:44:58.310 --> 01:45:00.489
I'm teaching my kids how to apply tourniquets.

01:45:00.770 --> 01:45:04.590
Like that's sad. It's a reality. You, you get

01:45:04.590 --> 01:45:07.569
it because where you work and I get it, but like,

01:45:07.569 --> 01:45:10.890
you know, that's sad to me. I'm teaching my kid

01:45:10.890 --> 01:45:12.829
how to apply tourniquets and I'm giving them

01:45:12.829 --> 01:45:15.710
to him. It's crazy. It's crazy. We should, we

01:45:15.710 --> 01:45:18.130
shouldn't be here. And I, to me, I just, I'm

01:45:18.130 --> 01:45:19.909
a back to basics guy and we just need to get

01:45:19.909 --> 01:45:22.529
back to family roots and, you know, you know,

01:45:22.529 --> 01:45:25.029
making your community better and, you know, realizing

01:45:25.029 --> 01:45:27.189
you have potential as an individual to make.

01:45:28.020 --> 01:45:30.460
your community better, the country better, your

01:45:30.460 --> 01:45:34.119
whatever, um, better. So, um, I don't know. I

01:45:34.119 --> 01:45:35.880
kind of got off on a tangent there, but like

01:45:35.880 --> 01:45:39.819
the, you know, I, I, those things all fuel, you

01:45:39.819 --> 01:45:43.460
know, gangs, domestic terrorist groups, you know,

01:45:43.460 --> 01:45:46.119
cause these kids just out there, they, they sense

01:45:46.119 --> 01:45:50.479
they have that lack of belonging, love, whatever

01:45:50.479 --> 01:45:53.520
they feel neglected. So that's what these cults

01:45:53.520 --> 01:45:54.859
do. That's what these terrorist groups, they,

01:45:54.939 --> 01:45:58.939
they prey on. kids like that and they'll hey

01:45:58.939 --> 01:46:01.180
we'll give you a family and like oh you got a

01:46:01.180 --> 01:46:03.659
initiation you got to go put a round in someone's

01:46:03.659 --> 01:46:05.560
head oh you don't even know the person like what

01:46:05.560 --> 01:46:08.460
like that's crazy a little bit like that's what

01:46:08.460 --> 01:46:10.739
that's what happens this day and age it's just

01:46:10.739 --> 01:46:16.319
it's nuts you know so yeah i don't know if that

01:46:16.319 --> 01:46:18.619
really answers your question or not but yeah

01:46:18.619 --> 01:46:21.079
no it does it does um i had a guy on the show

01:46:21.079 --> 01:46:24.369
and he was a trauma surgeon If I remember if

01:46:24.369 --> 01:46:26.890
I'm getting that right. And it was pre 9 -11

01:46:26.890 --> 01:46:30.010
and the military was sending their trauma doctors

01:46:30.010 --> 01:46:34.850
to some of our major cities like Chicago and

01:46:34.850 --> 01:46:37.449
some of those places, Detroit, so that they could

01:46:37.449 --> 01:46:40.810
get experience on trauma medicines with shabbings,

01:46:40.810 --> 01:46:44.090
stabbings and shootings. So think about that.

01:46:44.130 --> 01:46:46.829
That's a reflection of our country that our military

01:46:46.829 --> 01:46:49.210
doctors are going to go to our cities to get

01:46:49.210 --> 01:46:51.210
training because there's so much violent crime.

01:46:51.310 --> 01:46:54.960
Yeah, it's crazy. It's absolutely insane. Like

01:46:54.960 --> 01:46:56.960
my, I think I was telling my older sons, like

01:46:56.960 --> 01:46:59.880
pre -med and, and at one point he wanted to be

01:46:59.880 --> 01:47:02.819
a neurosurgeon. And so like through my network,

01:47:02.840 --> 01:47:04.920
I hooked them up with a friend of mine and he

01:47:04.920 --> 01:47:08.420
was a trauma neurosurgeon. So he, he was shadowed

01:47:08.420 --> 01:47:10.840
him a couple of times and like, he would see

01:47:10.840 --> 01:47:12.960
like gunshot wounds, this and that. It's just

01:47:12.960 --> 01:47:16.220
like, it's, it's, it's, it's insane. It's crazy.

01:47:16.359 --> 01:47:19.630
It's crazy. But yeah, I think this is why. The

01:47:19.630 --> 01:47:22.029
conversation needs to be on again on the mental

01:47:22.029 --> 01:47:24.649
health, but also this is what my book is going

01:47:24.649 --> 01:47:26.470
to be or the TV show my book is going to be about

01:47:26.470 --> 01:47:29.750
is the generational trauma. Because if you look

01:47:29.750 --> 01:47:32.010
at where we are now, we're really only two generations

01:47:32.010 --> 01:47:35.670
from the World War II generation. We told them,

01:47:35.670 --> 01:47:37.710
wow, you're the greatest generation. You just

01:47:37.710 --> 01:47:39.689
came back, rolled up your sleeves and got back

01:47:39.689 --> 01:47:42.170
to work. We didn't give them the ability to actually

01:47:42.170 --> 01:47:45.250
start. dealing with their own shit which we know

01:47:45.250 --> 01:47:47.310
they had right you know what i mean and you hear

01:47:47.310 --> 01:47:49.130
about granddad on so many of these interviews

01:47:49.130 --> 01:47:52.689
and he wasn't okay there was alcoholism there

01:47:52.689 --> 01:47:54.609
was domestic violence there was you know all

01:47:54.609 --> 01:47:57.109
kinds of other stuff so then you've started to

01:47:57.109 --> 01:47:59.909
fragment that that household and then of course

01:47:59.909 --> 01:48:02.590
we've got socioeconomic areas that weren't exactly

01:48:02.590 --> 01:48:05.329
set up for success in certain you know racial

01:48:05.329 --> 01:48:07.630
groups or you know again west virginia whatever

01:48:07.630 --> 01:48:10.149
it is areas that weren't given the same opportunity

01:48:10.149 --> 01:48:13.069
right And then you have, you know, all the American

01:48:13.069 --> 01:48:15.750
industry sent overseas. So now there's an employment

01:48:15.750 --> 01:48:19.729
void. So you see this trauma. You see these dominoes

01:48:19.729 --> 01:48:23.789
falling. And it all circles back to us looking

01:48:23.789 --> 01:48:27.229
in the mirror and saying, what can I do for me

01:48:27.229 --> 01:48:30.630
first? Then for my wife, you know, husband, children,

01:48:30.810 --> 01:48:33.210
whatever it is. And then again, I'm going to

01:48:33.210 --> 01:48:35.270
go out into that community like my friend Chris

01:48:35.270 --> 01:48:37.369
Hickman has done here with the Firefighter Mentorship

01:48:37.369 --> 01:48:40.939
Program. Because those kids that grew up without

01:48:40.939 --> 01:48:43.039
one parent, without either parents, whatever

01:48:43.039 --> 01:48:45.500
the thing is, where they just were born into

01:48:45.500 --> 01:48:48.199
a disadvantage, I'm going to be that person.

01:48:48.340 --> 01:48:49.979
I'm going to be the one that helps them turn

01:48:49.979 --> 01:48:51.460
the corner. I'm going to train them to be the

01:48:51.460 --> 01:48:53.720
best fucking firefighter that we've ever had

01:48:53.720 --> 01:48:56.720
in the city of Ocala or wherever it is. And so

01:48:56.720 --> 01:48:58.539
I think that's how we turn it around because

01:48:58.539 --> 01:49:00.960
some families, we can't bring them back together.

01:49:01.020 --> 01:49:03.869
They're already fragmented. So how can the rest

01:49:03.869 --> 01:49:07.090
of us that are doing okay step in and be that

01:49:07.090 --> 01:49:09.569
kind of cribbing for that young man or that young

01:49:09.569 --> 01:49:12.689
woman to actually make the right choice themselves?

01:49:13.109 --> 01:49:18.649
Right, right. I'm just going to dovetail off

01:49:18.649 --> 01:49:23.050
what you're saying here. I firmly believe that

01:49:23.050 --> 01:49:27.670
everyone should serve something greater than

01:49:27.670 --> 01:49:31.560
themselves at some point in their life. You know,

01:49:31.560 --> 01:49:33.760
we all know that there's European countries,

01:49:33.899 --> 01:49:35.520
you know, like the Israelis, for instance, you

01:49:35.520 --> 01:49:38.020
have to serve X amount of years in the IDF and

01:49:38.020 --> 01:49:40.220
in other countries do the same. Like I remember

01:49:40.220 --> 01:49:42.739
playing baseball. They came from Sweden, you

01:49:42.739 --> 01:49:44.779
know, and they lived here, but they went and

01:49:44.779 --> 01:49:47.100
did their obligation to Sweden, you know, and

01:49:47.100 --> 01:49:48.439
served in the military for a couple of years.

01:49:48.619 --> 01:49:51.659
Like I firmly believe that, you know, before

01:49:51.659 --> 01:49:55.579
young. adults go out into adulthood they need

01:49:55.579 --> 01:49:57.920
like whether it's from like out of college or

01:49:57.920 --> 01:50:00.319
out of high school whatever we can figure it

01:50:00.319 --> 01:50:02.939
out or do a combination thereof but like some

01:50:02.939 --> 01:50:06.039
people everyone needs to go out and serve you

01:50:06.039 --> 01:50:08.619
know their community their country i don't know

01:50:08.619 --> 01:50:10.340
it could be the peace corps i don't care whatever

01:50:10.340 --> 01:50:14.760
serve a cause greater than yourself at some point

01:50:14.760 --> 01:50:17.159
for like a year or something like that we i think

01:50:17.159 --> 01:50:19.699
we need to do that like because it's you're talking

01:50:19.699 --> 01:50:22.439
about trying to change a culture Like, and you

01:50:22.439 --> 01:50:25.220
can't, it's a paradigm shift and that takes a

01:50:25.220 --> 01:50:27.659
long time, you know, but I think that's one thing

01:50:27.659 --> 01:50:29.920
that we could do at, again, at a strategic level,

01:50:29.979 --> 01:50:33.300
you know, to help us turn the tide, to get back

01:50:33.300 --> 01:50:36.500
to those, back to basics, roots, you know, to

01:50:36.500 --> 01:50:40.060
curb a lot of stuff in our society today. Like,

01:50:40.060 --> 01:50:43.560
and I firmly believe, like, if you have an opportunity

01:50:43.560 --> 01:50:46.420
to go do that and serve others, it just opens

01:50:46.420 --> 01:50:49.140
eyes. Like, I'll give you an example. For instance,

01:50:49.279 --> 01:50:52.560
I... Through my high school that I graduated

01:50:52.560 --> 01:50:55.380
from, and both my boys graduated from, it's a

01:50:55.380 --> 01:50:57.399
private high school up the street called Malvern

01:50:57.399 --> 01:51:00.979
Preparatory School, Augustinian Catholic School.

01:51:01.899 --> 01:51:04.640
They're very big on Christian service, you know,

01:51:04.640 --> 01:51:06.119
serving community, so on and so forth. So they

01:51:06.119 --> 01:51:09.279
prep. these kids to go out and serve the respective

01:51:09.279 --> 01:51:10.880
communities. It's kind of like the Augustinian

01:51:10.880 --> 01:51:14.880
mantra is to serve others. So one of the things

01:51:14.880 --> 01:51:17.399
that they do at the school is have these community

01:51:17.399 --> 01:51:21.699
service trips to impoverished areas throughout

01:51:21.699 --> 01:51:24.560
the world, like Dominican Republic, Costa Rica.

01:51:25.180 --> 01:51:27.920
Long story short, I went as a chaperone since

01:51:27.920 --> 01:51:33.140
I'm an alum in March to Costa Rica with 24. Young

01:51:33.140 --> 01:51:35.560
boys, all juniors, you know, from the school

01:51:35.560 --> 01:51:38.880
for the most part to Costa Rica. And, you know,

01:51:38.920 --> 01:51:40.840
we did a lot of community service in an impoverished

01:51:40.840 --> 01:51:45.659
area in Costa Rica. And talk about the change

01:51:45.659 --> 01:51:49.720
that those kids had within a week. Mind -blowing.

01:51:50.100 --> 01:51:53.359
I mean, totally different kids when they came

01:51:53.359 --> 01:51:55.470
back home. And, you know, we talked a lot about

01:51:55.470 --> 01:51:58.329
this stuff. There's other two alumni chaperones,

01:51:58.350 --> 01:52:00.890
and then there's a company they hired to facilitate

01:52:00.890 --> 01:52:03.710
it. And they had local guys that were kind of

01:52:03.710 --> 01:52:05.970
our guides and this and that. But, you know,

01:52:05.970 --> 01:52:09.229
to see the change in these young men, it's an

01:52:09.229 --> 01:52:11.569
all -boys Catholic school, between when they

01:52:11.569 --> 01:52:14.890
got there and they came back, just by doing a

01:52:14.890 --> 01:52:16.689
week of community service in an impoverished

01:52:16.689 --> 01:52:20.750
area was monumental. And I saw it firsthand.

01:52:22.270 --> 01:52:25.170
Just little things like that. We just, as a country,

01:52:25.229 --> 01:52:27.590
I think we need to do like more of that stuff.

01:52:27.670 --> 01:52:30.170
Like that's a private school. Like it's not cheap.

01:52:30.289 --> 01:52:32.590
So like, you know, all parents, they're making

01:52:32.590 --> 01:52:34.510
that investment in their children. But like,

01:52:34.529 --> 01:52:36.149
if you don't go to a private school that has

01:52:36.149 --> 01:52:37.529
a program like that, you're not going to get

01:52:37.529 --> 01:52:40.029
that. Like, so my point is on a national grant

01:52:40.029 --> 01:52:44.770
scale, we need to do something to bring opportunities

01:52:44.770 --> 01:52:48.010
to our youth to provide, you know, the serving.

01:52:48.520 --> 01:52:50.619
something better in yourself type opportunities

01:52:50.619 --> 01:52:54.260
so to speak bottom line yeah yeah no i agree

01:52:54.260 --> 01:52:55.960
completely and this is what's so sad like there's

01:52:55.960 --> 01:52:58.720
not that voice of you know to kids you can be

01:52:58.720 --> 01:53:01.180
anything you know which i think was really one

01:53:01.180 --> 01:53:03.779
of the american fundamental things you know this

01:53:03.779 --> 01:53:06.239
was a land of opportunity and then again the

01:53:06.239 --> 01:53:09.460
disconnect between a lot of the the holy books

01:53:09.460 --> 01:53:11.960
that people read and the kindness and compassion

01:53:11.960 --> 01:53:15.720
and empathy that these prophets had and how we're

01:53:15.720 --> 01:53:17.859
acting today and the message that's out there.

01:53:17.920 --> 01:53:20.640
And I think there is a huge narcissistic element,

01:53:20.739 --> 01:53:24.000
and it is about me, me, me. And there's no I

01:53:24.000 --> 01:53:26.079
in the USA. There's an us. You know what I mean?

01:53:26.140 --> 01:53:28.920
That's very cheesy, but it's true. This is a

01:53:28.920 --> 01:53:31.359
community element, so we need to put that back.

01:53:31.619 --> 01:53:34.220
When I was little and growing up in England,

01:53:34.279 --> 01:53:37.380
there was a couple of TV shows. One of them was

01:53:37.380 --> 01:53:40.340
called Blue Peter. And the whole show would be,

01:53:40.340 --> 01:53:41.699
you know, there'd be some interesting things

01:53:41.699 --> 01:53:43.399
like a kid on a BMX or whatever, but there would

01:53:43.399 --> 01:53:46.079
always be what is going on in the world and how

01:53:46.079 --> 01:53:48.100
can we help? And they would organize these like

01:53:48.100 --> 01:53:50.460
nationwide, you know, bake sales or, you know,

01:53:50.460 --> 01:53:52.920
whatever it was. And we would raise, you know,

01:53:52.939 --> 01:53:54.640
school kids, we would raise money and it would

01:53:54.640 --> 01:53:56.899
go to Ethiopia during the famine or, you know,

01:53:56.899 --> 01:53:59.619
whatever the thing was. So not only we'd be educated

01:53:59.619 --> 01:54:01.920
on some of the things and how lucky you were

01:54:01.920 --> 01:54:04.399
and what was going on, but also to be part of

01:54:04.399 --> 01:54:06.939
that solution. And I think we need to absolutely

01:54:06.939 --> 01:54:09.079
refine that because again, going back to World

01:54:09.079 --> 01:54:13.840
War II, that's what our grandparents did. Whether

01:54:13.840 --> 01:54:15.579
they picked up arms or whether they worked in

01:54:15.579 --> 01:54:18.039
the factories, they were part of this movement

01:54:18.039 --> 01:54:22.140
that saved millions of people. And here we are

01:54:22.140 --> 01:54:24.600
now and all of a sudden it's about me. And so

01:54:24.600 --> 01:54:26.899
I couldn't agree more. Sebastian Junger talked

01:54:26.899 --> 01:54:29.720
about this. National service doesn't have to

01:54:29.720 --> 01:54:32.930
necessarily be military. You can have other groups,

01:54:33.029 --> 01:54:34.750
you know, whether you're working on the environmental

01:54:34.750 --> 01:54:37.489
side or assisting first responders or whatever

01:54:37.489 --> 01:54:40.310
it is. But giving back to your country, I think

01:54:40.310 --> 01:54:43.569
it would absolutely just smite this kind of narcissism

01:54:43.569 --> 01:54:46.069
that we have and this selfishness and this, you

01:54:46.069 --> 01:54:48.369
know, worship of the monopoly. That's just kind

01:54:48.369 --> 01:54:50.250
of this cancer that's going around at the moment.

01:54:50.329 --> 01:54:55.649
Yeah. I mean, God, go work at a nonprofit for

01:54:55.649 --> 01:54:58.130
a year or something, whatever. I mean, there's.

01:54:58.510 --> 01:55:01.590
there's a million ways to make this happen. Um,

01:55:01.869 --> 01:55:03.810
you know, we just, we just gotta strategically,

01:55:03.869 --> 01:55:06.329
you gotta make it a priority somehow. Like, you

01:55:06.329 --> 01:55:08.109
know, until we do that, I think, you know, we're,

01:55:08.109 --> 01:55:10.869
you know, the me, me, me thing is just, it's

01:55:10.869 --> 01:55:13.689
not a, it's a way to go. Not, not the way to

01:55:13.689 --> 01:55:17.510
go in my opinion, but, um, you know, um, there's

01:55:17.510 --> 01:55:19.789
just so much to, to learn out there. And, and,

01:55:19.789 --> 01:55:24.569
um, you know, you, you, you, when you serve others,

01:55:24.770 --> 01:55:29.739
um, You just there's a there's a sense of gratification,

01:55:30.000 --> 01:55:34.079
you know, and not only that, but you're. you

01:55:34.079 --> 01:55:35.739
know, you're making an impact. It's like you're

01:55:35.739 --> 01:55:38.279
throwing a pond, a little pebble in a pond. You're

01:55:38.279 --> 01:55:39.800
having that ripple effect, right? Like if you

01:55:39.800 --> 01:55:41.680
go in a, in a, in a published community and you

01:55:41.680 --> 01:55:43.979
help them out, like maybe one of those kids that

01:55:43.979 --> 01:55:45.739
you helped out at some point is going to, you

01:55:45.739 --> 01:55:47.960
know, later, you'll go do the same thing. Like,

01:55:48.060 --> 01:55:50.000
you know, so on and so forth. So there's, there's,

01:55:50.000 --> 01:55:54.260
there's the ripple in the pond effect. But yeah,

01:55:54.399 --> 01:55:56.199
it's, I think we just can just do a better job

01:55:56.199 --> 01:55:57.840
of that. Like there's gotta be some sort of.

01:55:58.329 --> 01:56:00.510
It'd be great if like some sort of mandate came

01:56:00.510 --> 01:56:02.569
out, like, Hey, you gotta, you gotta do something,

01:56:02.630 --> 01:56:04.050
figure it out, but you gotta start something,

01:56:04.050 --> 01:56:06.590
you know, more than yourself. And then, you know,

01:56:06.590 --> 01:56:09.029
that'd be great. I'd love it. I'd love it. Get

01:56:09.029 --> 01:56:12.789
that back to basics. Yeah. To the table for sure.

01:56:14.090 --> 01:56:15.569
Absolutely. Yeah. All right. Well, I want to

01:56:15.569 --> 01:56:17.130
throw some closing questions at you, but just

01:56:17.130 --> 01:56:19.489
one more area before we do talk to me about the

01:56:19.489 --> 01:56:22.010
consulting firm that you're setting up now. Yeah.

01:56:22.090 --> 01:56:25.369
So Jones and associates consulting and concierge

01:56:25.369 --> 01:56:29.149
services just started in January. um obviously

01:56:29.149 --> 01:56:31.850
me being a retired federal agent working in the

01:56:31.850 --> 01:56:34.210
national security sector law enforcement sector

01:56:34.210 --> 01:56:37.289
my entire career i've got a lot of subject matter

01:56:37.289 --> 01:56:40.210
expertise in those domains like the mass shooting

01:56:40.210 --> 01:56:43.569
you know thing for instance um one of my referral

01:56:43.569 --> 01:56:46.189
partners is a company called zero wise they have

01:56:46.189 --> 01:56:50.010
some wicked tech ai technology that is installed

01:56:50.010 --> 01:56:52.390
within existing cct cameras and it's basically

01:56:52.390 --> 01:56:55.649
a gun identification technology. So if you brandish

01:56:55.649 --> 01:56:58.670
a weapon, it's not foolproof, right? It could

01:56:58.670 --> 01:57:02.770
be a BB gun or like say a Nerf gun. It's going

01:57:02.770 --> 01:57:05.409
to, the technology is going to hit, but they've

01:57:05.409 --> 01:57:08.109
got guys like me, retired law enforcement, military

01:57:08.109 --> 01:57:10.989
that know weapons, et cetera, et cetera, are

01:57:10.989 --> 01:57:12.609
able to say, hey, that's a false positive or

01:57:12.609 --> 01:57:14.890
hey, that's a cop somewhere. Like it's legit,

01:57:15.090 --> 01:57:17.689
whatever. But bottom line, the whole concept

01:57:17.689 --> 01:57:21.010
is to you know, increase the response time for

01:57:21.010 --> 01:57:23.350
first responders to, you know, take out an active

01:57:23.350 --> 01:57:26.130
shooter. You know, it's, you know, it's, you

01:57:26.130 --> 01:57:29.909
know, so the consulting business, again, it's,

01:57:29.909 --> 01:57:31.649
I've got a lot of referral partnerships there

01:57:31.649 --> 01:57:34.850
to help companies, you know, get some sales for

01:57:34.850 --> 01:57:37.109
their respective companies. I've got a couple

01:57:37.109 --> 01:57:39.850
of consulting science clients, you know, that

01:57:39.850 --> 01:57:42.350
I help them with, you know, in those arenas,

01:57:42.350 --> 01:57:44.229
the national security arena, intelligence community

01:57:44.229 --> 01:57:47.770
arena, law enforcement arena. You know, my wife's

01:57:47.770 --> 01:57:50.770
also a retired federal agent, so she's now teaching

01:57:50.770 --> 01:57:54.449
French and Spanish. She's got that language skill

01:57:54.449 --> 01:57:57.689
that I never had. But, you know, the whole concept

01:57:57.689 --> 01:57:59.569
is kind of like, you know, as we as we get older

01:57:59.569 --> 01:58:01.869
and we're done our full time jobs, you know,

01:58:01.869 --> 01:58:04.970
we can focus our time and energy into the consulting

01:58:04.970 --> 01:58:07.229
business, build it out. There's like a concierge

01:58:07.229 --> 01:58:10.289
part to it as well, whether it's, you know, taking

01:58:10.289 --> 01:58:13.170
care of, you know. errands for like an elderly

01:58:13.170 --> 01:58:17.390
couple in the area or you know helping out with

01:58:17.390 --> 01:58:21.170
certain things for a family you know in the area

01:58:21.170 --> 01:58:24.149
you know we can do that as well but yeah it's

01:58:24.149 --> 01:58:25.810
really heavy on the consulting there's a little

01:58:25.810 --> 01:58:28.640
concierge part to it to help with, um, some,

01:58:28.760 --> 01:58:30.439
you know, concierge services, like executive

01:58:30.439 --> 01:58:32.399
protections, one, two, I mean, I used to do that

01:58:32.399 --> 01:58:35.720
mission, you know, so, um, it would be, you know,

01:58:35.739 --> 01:58:39.359
executive protection for people like, you know,

01:58:39.359 --> 01:58:41.100
ever since that CEO of the insurance company

01:58:41.100 --> 01:58:43.000
got taken out, there's a huge push for that,

01:58:43.079 --> 01:58:46.840
obviously, you know, um, provide security for,

01:58:46.859 --> 01:58:48.500
you know, corporate executives and things like

01:58:48.500 --> 01:58:52.279
that. Um, but, uh, yeah, so it's, um, It's still

01:58:52.279 --> 01:58:54.479
embryonic at this point, but, you know, crawl,

01:58:54.560 --> 01:58:57.279
walk, run. You know, got a few clients now, like

01:58:57.279 --> 01:59:01.300
majority referral partners that I'm helping out,

01:59:01.340 --> 01:59:03.039
you know, some consulting. But, yeah, we're going

01:59:03.039 --> 01:59:05.579
to build this out as we go. And you'll look forward

01:59:05.579 --> 01:59:08.060
to it. You'll work with my wife on it. And, you

01:59:08.060 --> 01:59:09.939
know, we'll continue pressing forward with it

01:59:09.939 --> 01:59:12.760
for sure. And where can people find that online?

01:59:13.239 --> 01:59:16.460
Yeah, so I've got a website up, jonesconsultantservices

01:59:16.460 --> 01:59:21.140
.com. And I've got that website up and running.

01:59:21.380 --> 01:59:23.560
Check it out. I'm still making some changes here

01:59:23.560 --> 01:59:26.899
and there, but people can check that out. And

01:59:26.899 --> 01:59:31.579
that can be reached at the email hunter at jonesconsultantservices

01:59:31.579 --> 01:59:35.539
.com as well. Beautiful. Well, the first of the

01:59:35.539 --> 01:59:38.319
closing questions, is there a book or are there

01:59:38.319 --> 01:59:41.100
books that you love to recommend? It can be related

01:59:41.100 --> 01:59:43.279
to our discussion today or completely unrelated.

01:59:45.340 --> 01:59:47.100
That's a great question. Yeah, I've got, I've,

01:59:47.100 --> 01:59:50.279
I always believe like readings, you know, having

01:59:50.279 --> 01:59:52.140
a thirst for knowledge is a good thing. You know,

01:59:52.159 --> 01:59:54.920
reading, you know, wisdom is, you know, knowledge

01:59:54.920 --> 01:59:58.380
is wisdom and wisdom is power, right? uh there's

01:59:58.380 --> 02:00:00.479
a lot to be learned out there i'm a i'm a big

02:00:00.479 --> 02:00:02.920
reader of uh autobiographies and things like

02:00:02.920 --> 02:00:05.199
that you know self -improvement books i'm not

02:00:05.199 --> 02:00:07.220
really into the fiction stuff because like yeah

02:00:07.220 --> 02:00:09.020
okay it's cool like you can let your imagination

02:00:09.020 --> 02:00:11.500
roam and stuff like that but like unless there's

02:00:11.500 --> 02:00:15.500
like things to like learn or like uh take away

02:00:15.500 --> 02:00:18.640
from a book like i just you know i've got you

02:00:18.640 --> 02:00:21.260
know i'd rather pour my time into like you know

02:00:21.260 --> 02:00:23.479
autobiographies and self -improvement books and

02:00:23.479 --> 02:00:27.649
stuff like that so to that point um The best

02:00:27.649 --> 02:00:30.590
team, again, being a team guy, being a football

02:00:30.590 --> 02:00:33.010
guy, the best team book I ever read was Hard

02:00:33.010 --> 02:00:37.529
Hat 21, a phenomenal book about the Cornell lacrosse

02:00:37.529 --> 02:00:40.449
team. Long story short, the guy lost his life

02:00:40.449 --> 02:00:45.630
playing lacrosse for Cornell, but this young

02:00:45.630 --> 02:00:49.109
individual, he was a team guy, and the book's

02:00:49.109 --> 02:00:52.140
really all about him. you know, how he lived

02:00:52.140 --> 02:00:54.819
his life. And, you know, it's just a great story.

02:00:54.840 --> 02:00:56.600
If you look at the Cornell lacrosse team, they

02:00:56.600 --> 02:01:00.279
still have, like, the helmet. It's a worker's

02:01:00.279 --> 02:01:03.319
helmet. It has a 21 on it. And, you know, basically

02:01:03.319 --> 02:01:08.699
what they do is they pass the helmet from, I

02:01:08.699 --> 02:01:10.600
think it's week to week or maybe month. I mean,

02:01:10.699 --> 02:01:12.520
it's probably week to week on, like, the hardest

02:01:12.520 --> 02:01:16.789
working team player. week of practice or whatever.

02:01:16.970 --> 02:01:19.729
So they pass this hat along amongst the team,

02:01:19.930 --> 02:01:21.630
which I think is really cool, like symbolism,

02:01:21.810 --> 02:01:25.569
right? But it's a great book, probably the best

02:01:25.569 --> 02:01:30.850
team book I've ever read in my life. The Gift

02:01:30.850 --> 02:01:34.130
of Fear is a good book by Gavin DeBecker. From

02:01:34.130 --> 02:01:37.010
a security standpoint, it just basically talks

02:01:37.010 --> 02:01:41.380
about the... The intrinsic skill or capability

02:01:41.380 --> 02:01:43.199
that you have, like the little hair on the back

02:01:43.199 --> 02:01:45.479
of your neck, like if it stands up, like don't

02:01:45.479 --> 02:01:47.859
double guess it. Like you're walking down the

02:01:47.859 --> 02:01:50.579
street and you see a couple guys off in the distance

02:01:50.579 --> 02:01:53.659
and that little, like turn around. Like don't,

02:01:53.659 --> 02:01:56.579
you know, it's things like that. It's just making

02:01:56.579 --> 02:01:59.039
yourself more aware of your surroundings and

02:01:59.039 --> 02:02:03.239
really to trust your. intrinsic inborn ability

02:02:03.239 --> 02:02:06.659
to sense fear and tap into it to keep you safe

02:02:06.659 --> 02:02:10.199
in a world of chaos right um that's that's a

02:02:10.199 --> 02:02:12.000
great book as well i mean there's a lot of good

02:02:12.000 --> 02:02:15.199
uh autobiographies out there i i like the um

02:02:15.199 --> 02:02:18.000
extreme ownership's a great book by uh jocko

02:02:18.000 --> 02:02:22.720
and leaf laven uh leaf babin out there um those

02:02:22.720 --> 02:02:24.560
are just a few off the top of my head i mean

02:02:24.560 --> 02:02:27.159
i i can get you more but those are those are

02:02:27.159 --> 02:02:30.340
three that kind of Make Your Bed in the Morning,

02:02:30.579 --> 02:02:33.359
Admiral McRaven, I think he's got a book out

02:02:33.359 --> 02:02:35.520
about that. McChrystal's books are really good,

02:02:35.640 --> 02:02:39.000
Stanley McChrystal's books. Those are all great

02:02:39.000 --> 02:02:43.760
things and great things to pass on for sure,

02:02:43.819 --> 02:02:46.840
to learn a lot from those people because they've

02:02:46.840 --> 02:02:50.659
done tremendous things out there and got an opportunity

02:02:50.659 --> 02:02:54.159
to learn. General Mattis' books, great. Schwarzkopf's

02:02:54.159 --> 02:02:57.439
books, really good. Yeah, there's a ton of them

02:02:57.439 --> 02:03:01.689
out there. Brilliant. What about films and documentaries?

02:03:04.270 --> 02:03:15.649
I mean, I'm a football guy. I mean, I like Remember

02:03:15.649 --> 02:03:19.310
the Titans, you know? We all love that movie.

02:03:20.510 --> 02:03:24.979
I mean, just I can't imagine. Growing up in that

02:03:24.979 --> 02:03:27.319
era, like, again, especially being a military

02:03:27.319 --> 02:03:30.939
guy, working with every creed you could color,

02:03:31.100 --> 02:03:32.939
whatever. I mean, it was kind of melting pot.

02:03:33.060 --> 02:03:37.340
Like, I can't imagine that we were so just out

02:03:37.340 --> 02:03:40.659
of touch back then. But, you know, just a phenomenal

02:03:40.659 --> 02:03:43.939
story, true story. And it revolved around football.

02:03:44.100 --> 02:03:46.000
Like, I'm a football guy, so I loved it. But,

02:03:46.060 --> 02:03:51.739
like, the impact that one guy could have on a

02:03:51.739 --> 02:03:55.960
community. you know greater country is it's just

02:03:55.960 --> 02:03:59.380
you know it's it's a testament to that that guy

02:03:59.380 --> 02:04:02.920
um and just what he did um that's a great movie

02:04:02.920 --> 02:04:09.020
um let's see um any given sunday uh al pacino

02:04:09.020 --> 02:04:11.020
and if you ever see that movie like there's there's

02:04:11.020 --> 02:04:13.500
a half yeah there's that one point in the locker

02:04:13.500 --> 02:04:16.020
room where he basically like was very vulnerable

02:04:16.020 --> 02:04:19.800
and he's talking about The inches, clawing for

02:04:19.800 --> 02:04:23.560
your teammate. I mean, I get chills being a football

02:04:23.560 --> 02:04:25.859
guy. I get chills when I watch that scene. It's

02:04:25.859 --> 02:04:30.819
just the most awesome locker room scene I've

02:04:30.819 --> 02:04:35.439
ever seen. It's great. Great movie. Documentaries.

02:04:38.119 --> 02:04:40.600
Yeah, I mean, I like the organized crime stuff.

02:04:40.899 --> 02:04:43.600
I mean, for entertainment, like Gangs of London

02:04:43.600 --> 02:04:49.220
is pretty cool. Mobland is pretty cool. I think

02:04:49.220 --> 02:04:54.260
you were talking earlier about the OxyContin

02:04:54.260 --> 02:04:56.699
epidemic, the painkiller. You've obviously seen

02:04:56.699 --> 02:04:59.520
that one. That was pretty good. You'll learn

02:04:59.520 --> 02:05:02.899
a little bit there. Anytime I can get an opportunity

02:05:02.899 --> 02:05:05.100
to watch something that's entertaining and learn

02:05:05.100 --> 02:05:08.560
some stuff, it's all good stuff. Absolutely.

02:05:08.560 --> 02:05:12.119
There's another one that Michael Keaton was in,

02:05:12.199 --> 02:05:14.159
and I'm blanking on the name now, but it was

02:05:14.159 --> 02:05:16.619
also about the opioid crisis. I would argue it

02:05:16.619 --> 02:05:18.729
was even... even better than painkiller all right

02:05:18.729 --> 02:05:20.789
i'll have to check that out yeah look it up i

02:05:20.789 --> 02:05:25.479
don't know why i think it was on hulu if i got

02:05:25.479 --> 02:05:27.380
that right but i've watched the whole thing twice

02:05:27.380 --> 02:05:29.779
already it was so good the acting was phenomenal

02:05:29.779 --> 02:05:31.760
but it really kind of like touches on what we

02:05:31.760 --> 02:05:34.920
talked about the origin stories of you know certain

02:05:34.920 --> 02:05:37.020
communities and how they were preyed upon and

02:05:37.020 --> 02:05:38.579
you know how they lied and they got you know

02:05:38.579 --> 02:05:40.760
the people that are proving in the fda were former

02:05:40.760 --> 02:05:43.319
purdue you know or became purdue employees i

02:05:43.319 --> 02:05:45.800
mean just the whole corruption element and then

02:05:45.800 --> 02:05:47.600
the doctors themselves getting addicted yeah

02:05:47.600 --> 02:05:50.640
i mean this all it was so so well done yeah i

02:05:50.640 --> 02:05:52.539
wish i could remember now but uh if you look

02:05:52.539 --> 02:05:55.479
at that one episode that one episode in painkiller

02:05:55.479 --> 02:05:58.399
where they you know like that guy the fda wouldn't

02:05:58.399 --> 02:06:00.239
approve it and then they they closed the door

02:06:00.239 --> 02:06:02.319
at the hotel and the next thing you know like

02:06:02.319 --> 02:06:05.159
the next day he approved like dude what the hell

02:06:05.159 --> 02:06:07.260
happened in that room right you know it's like

02:06:07.260 --> 02:06:09.699
it's crazy to your point the corruption like

02:06:09.699 --> 02:06:12.899
what he and he ended up working for pardew farmer

02:06:12.899 --> 02:06:17.829
afterwards like that's crazy it's nuts yeah that

02:06:17.829 --> 02:06:19.869
was exactly that was it dope sick was what it's

02:06:19.869 --> 02:06:21.510
called just looks it up okay so that's that's

02:06:21.510 --> 02:06:24.390
the name amazing absolutely amazing dope sick

02:06:24.390 --> 02:06:26.630
dope stare okay gotcha i'll check it out yeah

02:06:26.630 --> 02:06:29.729
cool awesome awesome good stuff all right well

02:06:29.729 --> 02:06:31.609
the next question is there a person that you'd

02:06:31.609 --> 02:06:34.489
recommend to come on this podcast to speak to

02:06:34.489 --> 02:06:36.649
the first responders military and associated

02:06:36.649 --> 02:06:41.149
professions of the world um yeah i mean i've

02:06:41.149 --> 02:06:44.170
got yeah i mean quite quite a few people i can

02:06:44.170 --> 02:06:49.510
recommend to you um Jared Bonville is a guy I

02:06:49.510 --> 02:06:54.250
worked with at OSI. Good, good cat. Just talked

02:06:54.250 --> 02:06:57.930
to him a little bit ago. And I think he would

02:06:57.930 --> 02:07:01.569
be cool to talk to about the, and I think this

02:07:01.569 --> 02:07:03.750
is important too. I mean, we touched on it, but

02:07:03.750 --> 02:07:06.350
we didn't really talk about it. The in depth,

02:07:06.470 --> 02:07:10.350
but the, you know, when it comes to helping.

02:07:11.980 --> 02:07:14.960
veterans overcome trauma and you know they they

02:07:14.960 --> 02:07:18.100
do like these trips to mexico they do the psychedelics

02:07:18.100 --> 02:07:20.420
and like i think to go to meyer was one of them

02:07:20.420 --> 02:07:22.279
if i'm not mistaken i think he talked about on

02:07:22.279 --> 02:07:25.520
joe rogan's podcast i mean i i'm pretty sure

02:07:25.520 --> 02:07:28.279
it was him but like i'm i'm of the mindset like

02:07:28.279 --> 02:07:31.140
hey if that stuff works and it helps fix our

02:07:31.140 --> 02:07:33.859
veterans we ought to we ought to be focusing

02:07:33.859 --> 02:07:37.460
on that and and you know making efforts to bring

02:07:37.460 --> 02:07:41.439
those you know rehab capabilities to bear to

02:07:41.439 --> 02:07:45.100
patch up our service guys. If it works, hey,

02:07:45.180 --> 02:07:48.500
why not exploit it? We need to do more of that.

02:07:48.720 --> 02:07:52.920
I think we're coming around a little bit on that

02:07:52.920 --> 02:07:56.300
topic. I'm not well involved in it, but Jared's

02:07:56.300 --> 02:07:59.960
a guy who is a lot more well -versed in that

02:07:59.960 --> 02:08:03.399
stuff than me. I think he was key in getting

02:08:03.399 --> 02:08:06.840
some legislation passed in Kentucky. I'll link

02:08:06.840 --> 02:08:10.560
you up with him. Really good dude. you know,

02:08:10.560 --> 02:08:13.479
operator type like me, just a really great guy.

02:08:13.560 --> 02:08:16.760
But I think from that, that, that, that whole

02:08:16.760 --> 02:08:19.880
topic, he would be a wealth of information to

02:08:19.880 --> 02:08:22.640
talk to about. And then, you know, there's, there's

02:08:22.640 --> 02:08:24.619
some others, but let me, let me think on, on

02:08:24.619 --> 02:08:27.899
some more, you know, Reed Keller is a guy who

02:08:27.899 --> 02:08:32.520
worked for me in Afghanistan and, and, and in

02:08:32.520 --> 02:08:36.260
Utah, phenomenal guy. My deputy, when I was out

02:08:36.260 --> 02:08:41.119
at Afghanistan, Greg Gow, great guy. You know,

02:08:41.119 --> 02:08:43.939
Dave Morgenstern, he was my operations officer

02:08:43.939 --> 02:08:46.659
out in Afghanistan. Greg and Dave were two guys

02:08:46.659 --> 02:08:49.460
that I handpicked, right? Like when I got the

02:08:49.460 --> 02:08:52.319
nod, because again, I volunteered for my deployments,

02:08:52.359 --> 02:08:54.920
my combat deployments. When I got the nod to

02:08:54.920 --> 02:08:57.100
go take the commander slash special aid in charge

02:08:57.100 --> 02:08:59.699
position, you know, as a military commander,

02:08:59.720 --> 02:09:02.239
you don't have like a ton of leeway on building

02:09:02.239 --> 02:09:04.680
your team, like in handpicking folks, but like.

02:09:05.200 --> 02:09:07.859
Since he since Dave was my operations officer

02:09:07.859 --> 02:09:10.319
and Greg was going to be my deputy as my senior

02:09:10.319 --> 02:09:12.300
noncommissioned officer in charge, I did have

02:09:12.300 --> 02:09:14.880
a little play there. So I, you know, the first

02:09:14.880 --> 02:09:19.140
call I made after I got the nod to go take that

02:09:19.140 --> 02:09:21.220
job was was to Greg, you know, because he and

02:09:21.220 --> 02:09:24.720
I, you know, formed a mutual respect for each

02:09:24.720 --> 02:09:27.140
other. Basically, when I when I lost my troop

02:09:27.140 --> 02:09:28.720
in Iraq, I think I was I told you a little bit

02:09:28.720 --> 02:09:30.239
about it, but I was the home station commander

02:09:30.239 --> 02:09:33.720
in Utah. Again, I'm very passionate about leadership.

02:09:33.819 --> 02:09:35.979
I went over and above to take care of that family

02:09:35.979 --> 02:09:39.800
left behind. Greg saw that firsthand. And he

02:09:39.800 --> 02:09:42.020
was actually with my troop that got killed in

02:09:42.020 --> 02:09:45.720
Kirkuk, actually. So he and I never talked about

02:09:45.720 --> 02:09:48.979
it specifically, but it's a touchy subject. But

02:09:48.979 --> 02:09:52.840
just through that mutual respect and the aftermath

02:09:52.840 --> 02:09:55.680
of me as a leader going above and beyond to take

02:09:55.680 --> 02:09:57.579
care of that family that was left behind. And

02:09:57.579 --> 02:10:00.479
Ryan Balmer, he's a guy who was killed in action

02:10:00.479 --> 02:10:03.319
in Iraq. phenomenal human being. He was one of

02:10:03.319 --> 02:10:05.859
like, I think, 10. So he had all these siblings

02:10:05.859 --> 02:10:08.479
and so on and so forth. So big family to take

02:10:08.479 --> 02:10:10.739
care of. But, you know, through that mutual respect,

02:10:11.020 --> 02:10:13.100
he was the first call I made. I was like, yo,

02:10:13.119 --> 02:10:15.680
you want to go serve for me in a year in Afghanistan?

02:10:15.939 --> 02:10:17.460
He goes, go work for you for a year? He's like,

02:10:17.539 --> 02:10:20.460
hell yeah, boss. And then Dave Morgenstern was

02:10:20.460 --> 02:10:22.699
another guy who I've worked with in Utah a little

02:10:22.699 --> 02:10:24.520
bit. He was one of my reservists out there when

02:10:24.520 --> 02:10:26.920
I was especially in charge out there. Phenomenal

02:10:26.920 --> 02:10:30.630
dude. And, you know, I knew I could. he was a

02:10:30.630 --> 02:10:33.949
reservist at the time I was in an OSI you can't

02:10:33.949 --> 02:10:36.569
like like Jeff's a reservist now like you can't

02:10:36.569 --> 02:10:38.770
get tasks to deploy but you can volunteer to

02:10:38.770 --> 02:10:41.949
deploy so I called Dave and I was like hey you

02:10:41.949 --> 02:10:43.750
want to come out and be my opso he's like yo

02:10:43.750 --> 02:10:45.729
be your opso for six months he's like hell yeah

02:10:45.729 --> 02:10:48.609
you know so I had an opportunity to build build

02:10:48.609 --> 02:10:50.470
somewhat of a you know my team out there and

02:10:50.470 --> 02:10:52.619
then the rest you know was on us to you know

02:10:52.619 --> 02:10:55.100
build that you know family you know camaraderie

02:10:55.100 --> 02:10:58.100
you know uh esprit de corps um culture out there

02:10:58.100 --> 02:11:01.039
but um those are other guys as well but i i think

02:11:01.039 --> 02:11:03.600
i can think of some more and you know point you

02:11:03.600 --> 02:11:05.460
to some others as well those are some off the

02:11:05.460 --> 02:11:08.560
top of my head yeah that would be amazing it's

02:11:08.560 --> 02:11:10.600
interesting even with you know as you mentioned

02:11:10.600 --> 02:11:12.500
the the plant medicines that are helping people

02:11:12.500 --> 02:11:14.979
not just the iboga and you know ayahuasca and

02:11:14.979 --> 02:11:18.270
some of those but also cbd yep and the resistance

02:11:18.270 --> 02:11:20.090
that they've had. And then you circle around

02:11:20.090 --> 02:11:23.229
again to these drug companies. Well, of course

02:11:23.229 --> 02:11:25.630
they don't want those other ones to come in because

02:11:25.630 --> 02:11:29.210
if they, for example, a boga seems to just crush

02:11:29.210 --> 02:11:32.090
addiction. It's incredible the stories I've heard,

02:11:32.189 --> 02:11:35.380
alcoholism, opioid addiction, et cetera. Well,

02:11:35.399 --> 02:11:37.460
then how am I going to sell all my pills if people

02:11:37.460 --> 02:11:40.739
are getting better? And that's sadly a big kind

02:11:40.739 --> 02:11:43.420
of spotlight on the things that are broken. Other

02:11:43.420 --> 02:11:46.779
countries, Norway and the Scandinavian countries,

02:11:46.859 --> 02:11:49.670
Japan. They save a huge amount of money because

02:11:49.670 --> 02:11:51.310
their people are healthy. Correct. You know,

02:11:51.310 --> 02:11:54.289
our health care system is set up to have sick

02:11:54.289 --> 02:11:56.250
people to profit from. That's not, you know,

02:11:56.250 --> 02:11:58.069
that's a conspiracy theory. That's the economics

02:11:58.069 --> 02:12:00.189
of our system. Yeah. You know, so there's no

02:12:00.189 --> 02:12:03.210
money in dead people. So let's try and keep them

02:12:03.210 --> 02:12:04.810
alive. But there's no money in healthy people.

02:12:05.210 --> 02:12:07.550
Or as one of my guests corrected me, there is

02:12:07.550 --> 02:12:09.590
money in healthy people. But now you're talking

02:12:09.590 --> 02:12:11.970
about the preventative medicine side and nutrition

02:12:11.970 --> 02:12:14.090
and exercise and all those things, which is great.

02:12:14.189 --> 02:12:16.430
Make money in there. But yeah, when we're seeing

02:12:16.430 --> 02:12:18.630
resistance to these plant medicines that are

02:12:18.630 --> 02:12:21.310
legitimately helping and they're not the magic

02:12:21.310 --> 02:12:23.010
bullet, there's other things you need to do as

02:12:23.010 --> 02:12:25.920
well. But there's so much resistance on the political

02:12:25.920 --> 02:12:28.000
level. We as a nation have to ask ourselves,

02:12:28.140 --> 02:12:30.479
well, why? And how do we change it? 100%. It

02:12:30.479 --> 02:12:32.220
all boils down to the money dollar. I mean, you

02:12:32.220 --> 02:12:35.779
probably know this. You look at TV, like 75 %

02:12:35.779 --> 02:12:38.500
of commercials are what? Pharma. crazy. Like

02:12:38.500 --> 02:12:40.699
to your point, it's like, it's a cash cow. Like,

02:12:40.720 --> 02:12:42.859
and you know, when you think about anything,

02:12:43.020 --> 02:12:45.319
like everything, a lot of things boil down to

02:12:45.319 --> 02:12:47.079
the mighty dollar, like, you know, Congress,

02:12:47.140 --> 02:12:49.380
Senate, like they've got huge investments in

02:12:49.380 --> 02:12:51.279
pharma. So of course they want the pharma companies

02:12:51.279 --> 02:12:53.399
to do well. Like we can go on and on about the

02:12:53.399 --> 02:12:55.500
insider trading stuff. Like it happens. It's

02:12:55.500 --> 02:12:57.800
crazy, totally illegal for you and I to do it,

02:12:57.819 --> 02:13:01.039
but they do it like, you know, so yeah, it all

02:13:01.039 --> 02:13:03.180
boils down to the mighty dollar. Like it's, it's

02:13:03.180 --> 02:13:06.140
like 75 % of the commercials are pharma. What?

02:13:06.860 --> 02:13:10.640
it's it's nuts it's nuts so yes yep and we're

02:13:10.640 --> 02:13:12.659
one of only two countries on the planet that

02:13:12.659 --> 02:13:14.760
allows drug commercials on television the other

02:13:14.760 --> 02:13:16.920
one which is crazy to me because i think of it

02:13:16.920 --> 02:13:19.340
what used to be a very kind of healthy uh country

02:13:19.340 --> 02:13:22.420
is um new zealand wow okay yeah which really

02:13:22.420 --> 02:13:24.300
surprised me too but yeah the rest of the world

02:13:24.300 --> 02:13:25.920
doesn't allow it that is surprising i didn't

02:13:25.920 --> 02:13:28.100
i wasn't tracking i i i worked a lot with the

02:13:28.100 --> 02:13:30.279
uh the kiwi guys and new zealand guys when i

02:13:30.279 --> 02:13:32.739
was in combat great great uh great counterparts

02:13:32.739 --> 02:13:36.239
for sure yeah yeah absolutely yeah crazy all

02:13:36.239 --> 02:13:38.239
right well then the last question before we can

02:13:38.239 --> 02:13:41.119
underline where we can find you online what do

02:13:41.119 --> 02:13:45.359
you do to decompress um i really like enjoying

02:13:45.359 --> 02:13:48.920
time with my family um you know i work out you

02:13:48.920 --> 02:13:51.220
know obviously lift still try to stay somewhat

02:13:51.220 --> 02:13:53.659
fit i mean i'm a i'm a naturally big guy six

02:13:53.659 --> 02:13:56.960
five like 300 plus pounds i mean you know it's

02:13:56.960 --> 02:13:59.460
so as as you know you're a little bit younger

02:13:59.460 --> 02:14:02.100
than me but like at our age it's so easy to put

02:14:02.100 --> 02:14:04.399
weight on and it's so hard to take off so like

02:14:04.399 --> 02:14:06.819
trying to maintain you know some semblance of

02:14:06.819 --> 02:14:09.260
health is is is important right to your point

02:14:09.260 --> 02:14:10.920
like you know taking care of yourself naturally

02:14:10.920 --> 02:14:13.399
so like you know whether it's walking my dogs

02:14:13.399 --> 02:14:16.439
or getting a good workout in you know swim whatever

02:14:16.439 --> 02:14:18.939
you know i enjoy that type of stuff and i really

02:14:18.939 --> 02:14:21.539
i'm an extrovert by trade you know like which

02:14:21.539 --> 02:14:23.989
you know being a federal agent made it was a

02:14:23.989 --> 02:14:25.710
natural fit for me because I just, I love being

02:14:25.710 --> 02:14:27.710
around people. Like, you know, and I, if I could

02:14:27.710 --> 02:14:30.369
work and be around people and then like solve

02:14:30.369 --> 02:14:33.069
crime and, or, you know, prevent, you know, people

02:14:33.069 --> 02:14:34.729
getting killed in combat, like, Hey, it's great.

02:14:34.789 --> 02:14:36.409
You know? So I really just love being around

02:14:36.409 --> 02:14:38.930
people. You know, love spending time with my

02:14:38.930 --> 02:14:41.729
friends, my family, you know, family's everything

02:14:41.729 --> 02:14:44.149
to me. You know, and my close friends that are

02:14:44.149 --> 02:14:46.609
family are everything, everything to me as well.

02:14:47.090 --> 02:14:48.909
That's, that's what I like to do to decompress.

02:14:48.909 --> 02:14:52.500
And I, you know, the, you know, serving stuff

02:14:52.500 --> 02:14:54.779
other than me, like, you know, coaching. I still

02:14:54.779 --> 02:14:57.460
love that. Obviously I'm still doing that. The

02:14:57.460 --> 02:15:01.079
nonprofit space still, you know, we're veterans

02:15:01.079 --> 02:15:03.819
villages looking to, we're actually in the process

02:15:03.819 --> 02:15:07.899
of transitioning over to another, another person

02:15:07.899 --> 02:15:10.359
that's going to take it on. I'll still stay on

02:15:10.359 --> 02:15:12.000
as like a, you know, an advisor or whatever,

02:15:12.100 --> 02:15:14.699
if the new ownership, you know, wants us, but

02:15:14.699 --> 02:15:17.810
if not, then. um i'll go elsewhere and you know

02:15:17.810 --> 02:15:20.130
veterans causes are are very near and dear to

02:15:20.130 --> 02:15:22.510
my heart so anywhere i can help in that domain

02:15:22.510 --> 02:15:25.489
um i've helped i've i've volunteered my time

02:15:25.489 --> 02:15:27.949
with like travis manning a couple times um you

02:15:27.949 --> 02:15:30.550
know it's veterans veterans causes are near and

02:15:30.550 --> 02:15:33.430
dear to my heart yep sure i still need to get

02:15:33.430 --> 02:15:36.050
ryan manning on the show one day she's great

02:15:36.050 --> 02:15:37.750
yeah you've never you've never gotten her on

02:15:37.750 --> 02:15:41.390
not yet no i've even she was at um the go rock

02:15:41.390 --> 02:15:43.350
had a thing called the Sandlot games a couple

02:15:43.350 --> 02:15:45.750
of years and she was there. They did the Mannion

02:15:45.750 --> 02:15:48.250
wad is one of the events there, but, uh, yeah,

02:15:48.310 --> 02:15:50.170
it's just, I keep meaning to, I just haven't

02:15:50.170 --> 02:15:53.470
yet. Gotcha. I mean, I, I, um, I know her, she

02:15:53.470 --> 02:15:56.369
knows me. Um, not really. I mean, she's a busy

02:15:56.369 --> 02:15:58.090
person wherever I see her, like in the public,

02:15:58.149 --> 02:16:00.310
like, you know, she's, she's always like a guest

02:16:00.310 --> 02:16:01.970
speaker somewhere or so on and so forth. But

02:16:01.970 --> 02:16:05.189
like, um, there's a guy, local guy, he, he's

02:16:05.189 --> 02:16:07.430
more, way more involved in Travis Manion foundation

02:16:07.430 --> 02:16:11.090
than, than I am. But, um, Joey Fay is his name.

02:16:11.170 --> 02:16:14.130
He's a Navy football guy, too. So we obviously

02:16:14.130 --> 02:16:16.649
have that brotherhood. I could link you up with

02:16:16.649 --> 02:16:19.250
him. He would be a great person to talk to as

02:16:19.250 --> 02:16:21.649
well. Now I'm thinking about it. Very much like

02:16:21.649 --> 02:16:23.989
me, you know, Naval Academy grad, just good dude.

02:16:24.390 --> 02:16:26.810
A lot more involved than Travis Mayne, but he

02:16:26.810 --> 02:16:29.050
may be a good lead in to get like, you know,

02:16:29.050 --> 02:16:31.569
Ryan on your show for sure. Colonel Mannion's

02:16:31.569 --> 02:16:34.840
a great guy, too. Ryan's dad. he's he's he's

02:16:34.840 --> 02:16:36.719
phenomenal he's got a little bit older but yeah

02:16:36.719 --> 02:16:38.899
still just great american colonel marine corps

02:16:38.899 --> 02:16:41.780
just just a great guy uh but yeah just a great

02:16:41.780 --> 02:16:44.180
great foundation but uh i can only get with joey

02:16:44.180 --> 02:16:46.540
faye for sure and you can you can you can pull

02:16:46.540 --> 02:16:49.260
that pull that strength yeah that'd be amazing

02:16:49.260 --> 02:16:51.840
thank you so much all right well then for people

02:16:51.840 --> 02:16:54.530
listening Just kind of reiterate again, your

02:16:54.530 --> 02:16:57.010
website and then any other places on social media

02:16:57.010 --> 02:16:58.530
people can find you. Yeah, you can find me on

02:16:58.530 --> 02:17:01.510
LinkedIn, active LinkedIn guy. Got over like

02:17:01.510 --> 02:17:03.909
9000 connections there. So feel free to connect

02:17:03.909 --> 02:17:07.909
to me there. Hunter K. Jones. Obviously, my website,

02:17:08.069 --> 02:17:11.409
American Jones and Associates Consulting, www

02:17:11.409 --> 02:17:16.649
.jonesconsultantservices .com. Um, obviously

02:17:16.649 --> 02:17:19.569
on Facebook as well. Um, not on there as much,

02:17:19.709 --> 02:17:21.750
you know, it can be, you know, good and bad,

02:17:21.829 --> 02:17:24.870
right. But, um, at on LinkedIn pretty much every

02:17:24.870 --> 02:17:26.629
day, daily, uh, it's probably the best place

02:17:26.629 --> 02:17:30.129
to get me on my website. Um, and like Facebook

02:17:30.129 --> 02:17:32.090
messenger, you know, again, I checked that once

02:17:32.090 --> 02:17:34.610
in a while, but you know, LinkedIn is a place

02:17:34.610 --> 02:17:38.229
to go. Brilliant. Well, I want to thank you so

02:17:38.229 --> 02:17:39.850
much. It's been such an amazing conversation.

02:17:39.969 --> 02:17:42.950
And this is what I love about. interviewing people

02:17:42.950 --> 02:17:45.129
that were actually there rather than having a

02:17:45.129 --> 02:17:49.629
political sway or whatever bias someone would

02:17:49.629 --> 02:17:52.469
have. When we hear the people, whether it was

02:17:52.469 --> 02:17:54.510
in combat, whether it was at 9 -11, whatever

02:17:54.510 --> 02:17:58.590
it is, you get to hear the actual voice of the

02:17:58.590 --> 02:18:02.360
people that saw it with their own eyeballs. Exactly.

02:18:02.360 --> 02:18:04.719
Such an invaluable conversation. So I want to

02:18:04.719 --> 02:18:06.799
thank you so, so much for being so generous with

02:18:06.799 --> 02:18:08.459
your time and coming on the Behind the Shield

02:18:08.459 --> 02:18:10.920
podcast today. Yeah, no, and I appreciate you

02:18:10.920 --> 02:18:12.719
giving me the opportunity to do so. It's been

02:18:12.719 --> 02:18:14.780
awesome. Great getting to know you too. And glad

02:18:14.780 --> 02:18:18.299
we finally made this work. And I think, how many

02:18:18.299 --> 02:18:19.719
books do you have out? And I wanted to ask you

02:18:19.719 --> 02:18:22.760
this. Two now. Two now. So you got another one

02:18:22.760 --> 02:18:25.540
coming out? Uh, not for a while. No, I've got

02:18:25.540 --> 02:18:27.340
an idea for another one, but the next thing is

02:18:27.340 --> 02:18:29.819
making the second one into a TV show. That's

02:18:29.819 --> 02:18:32.420
my next mission. All right. So I'll have to get

02:18:32.420 --> 02:18:34.200
a couple of those copies of like, I'd like to

02:18:34.200 --> 02:18:36.159
get you to, you know, autograph them and, you

02:18:36.159 --> 02:18:37.579
know, put a little note in there for me at some

02:18:37.579 --> 02:18:39.260
point we can, we can handle that offline. But

02:18:39.260 --> 02:18:41.700
I, um, I wasn't tracking the books and stuff,

02:18:41.719 --> 02:18:43.459
but I'm definitely going to dive into them. You

02:18:43.459 --> 02:18:44.879
know, I've really enjoyed the time being with

02:18:44.879 --> 02:18:47.040
you and, uh, you know, I'll get you over some

02:18:47.040 --> 02:18:48.860
contact information from other people to have

02:18:48.860 --> 02:18:51.440
on this podcast. And, uh, if i can ever do anything

02:18:51.440 --> 02:18:53.600
for you your family by all means let me know

02:18:53.600 --> 02:18:55.799
i'm here to serve so what i do