WEBVTT

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This episode is brought to you by Thorne, the

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even more about Thorne, go to episode 323 of

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Behind the Shield podcast. And you will hear

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my interview with Wes Barnett and Joel Totoro

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from Thorn. Welcome to episode 336 of Behind

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the Shield podcast. As always, my name is James

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Gearing. And this week, I'm extremely excited

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to welcome back onto the podcast, Joel Salatin.

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Now, Joel is a world -renowned holistic farmer

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who has appeared on multiple documentaries, including

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Forks Over Knives and Food Inc. And was also

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my guest on episode four. So if you haven't heard

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that, I highly recommend listening to that. But

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in the wake of this pandemic, I really want to

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pull out some of the basal health practices that

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we can glean from clean farming, from understanding

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what we're eating and the quality of what we're

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eating so that we can then build resilience within

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the communities around the world. So this was

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another amazing interview with Joel. I'm so,

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so glad he was able to come back on. Before we

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get to the interview, as I say, every single

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week, please just take a moment, go to whichever

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truly do make us more and more visible for people

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looking for a project like this And then this

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is a free library for you, the audience, whether

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it's individually, whether it's in a fire department,

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a police department, a business, use these incredible

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episodes for your own growth. And all I ask in

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return is that you help share these amazing men

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and women's stories so that we can get them to

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every single person on planet Earth that needs

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to hear them. I truly, truly believe there are

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some life -changing stories on here. So with

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that being said, I introduce to you Joel Salatin.

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Enjoy. Joel, firstly, I want to say thank you

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so much for coming back on the podcast. You were

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one of my very first guests, episode four, which

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was almost four years ago now. So here we are.

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sitting in the middle of a pandemic. So welcome

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back to the show. Thank you. It's a delight and

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an honor to be with you, James. Brilliant. Well,

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I would love to jump straight into that topic.

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I heard you on Joe Rogan a few weeks ago, and

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the things you talked about resonated deeply

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with me, and there's some other things I'd love

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to expand on that that you guys didn't have time

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to address. But right off the bat, so tell me

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from your perspective as a holistic farmer, What

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have been your observations with the last few

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months? Well, the main observation is that we,

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as a culture, we have refused to take responsibility,

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take personal responsibility for A, getting healthy,

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and B, the level of... sickness that we've had

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in our country. I mean, you know, every country

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wants to, you know, have the best gymnast or

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the fastest 100 -yard dash runner. You know,

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there are places where you want to lead the world,

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but there are places where you don't want to

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lead the world. And the fact that the U .S. leads

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the world in non -infectious morbidity, so that's,

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you know, cancer, diabetes, obesity, things like

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that, that take life, heart disease. The fact

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that we lead the world, we're number one in the

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world in those per capita, you know, should give

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us pause. For all our cleverness, we're not in

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a good place. And I would suggest that perhaps

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that's one reason why we're suffering more than

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other countries. It's not because of, you know,

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face masks and lockdowns and, you know, other

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things. To me, it's consistent with the fact

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that we lead the world in these non -infectious,

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what we call, you know, Western lifestyle problems.

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And so I would love to see somebody push Anthony

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Fauci aside one time and take the microphone

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and say, okay, America, let's spend one week

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working on our immune system. We can do that

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a lot. faster than a vaccine, and we can do that

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right now, and it doesn't really cost us anything.

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So what would be a recipe for immune building?

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So first of all, for a week, we're not going

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to drink any Coke, Pepsi, Dr. Pepper, sugary

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drinks. We're not going to eat junk food. We're

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not going to go to McDonald's. We're going to

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actually cook and eat unprocessed foods. And

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we're going to sleep eight and a half hours.

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And we're going to drink three quarts of water

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to get rehydrated. Almost every American is dehydrated,

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which is a real health issue. And we're going

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to spend one hour a day outside. I mean, we're

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in the summer. There's never a better time to

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spend an hour a day outside. getting some vitamin

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D, some exercise, throw a ball with the dog,

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the kids, the whatever. Grandma, I don't care,

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but get out and get some activity, some exercise,

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throw the ball, and then maybe it would be good

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to forgive everybody that you hate because hatred

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and vengeance drop cortisol levels and play havoc

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with our immune system. So let's live and let

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live and get rid of that. And, you know, I mean,

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those are like six things I just mentioned. But,

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I mean, if we really devoted ourselves to that

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for one week, you know, and another one might

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be turn off the depressing news for at least

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one hour a day and watch something hilarious

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like Red Skelton or Laurel and Hardy. And just

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laugh, laugh strong and hard for an hour a day.

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That might be good too. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's

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what I've seen from the beginning. I want to

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explore, obviously, the whole building immunity

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side in depth in a minute. But for what we've

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got now, for where people are in their health

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when this first started, to me, two things. Firstly,

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as a firefighter paramedic for 14 years, when

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they started touting the numbers and showing...

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images from ers you know i'm like well that's

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what happens every day in america in in the inner

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city our ers are swamped usually you know so

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there's a lot of false narrative but the only

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way that you're gonna build resilience is like

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you said you know in the very short term aside

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from the nutritional and exercise element is

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the state of mind and it was the complete opposite

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where they basically scared the shit out of everyone

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thus you know further lowering the immunity of

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the population Yes, yes. And the whole fixation,

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I guess the right word is fixation. When you

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are fixated on fear, yes, you don't function.

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Your body, your whole physical system, when you're

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fixated on fear, your body doesn't function very

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well. So when we quarantine, I mean, never in

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history have healthy people been quarantined.

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Here we are, you know, normally you quarantine

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sick people. Or, you know, that's how you stop

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these things. So instead of quarantining sick

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people, you know, we're quarantining healthy

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people and upsetting everyone's life, disappointing

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people, creating incredible economic hardship

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on many people. And all of this adds to this.

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fear fixation, this, this paranoia, hysteria,

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uh, fixation that, that becomes an all consuming

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thing, uh, in our psyche. And, and then of course

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it, it, it, uh, permeates in, into our physical,

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uh, health. And it's, uh, it's very unfortunate.

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I mean, uh, you know, we, it's, it's good to

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be aware. of things but uh to be completely fixated

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on fear is is not a healthy cultural position

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to be in no and it seems like the from what i'm

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seeing we're being sold almost the idea that

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there should be no death or disease at all so

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that's like the baseline for them versus you

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know the death of disease that we that we see

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and if there was a ticker tape in the corner

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you know, a number counting the narrowing of

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arteries, that thing would blow, you know, the

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COVID numbers out the war. And that's what's

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so disappointing is I've never seen anyone do

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a mandatory non -evacuation where you can't go

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home. You have to stay outside and run and play

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and exercise and pick fruit and eat it. And,

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you know, we lose millions and millions and millions

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of people to obesity. We lose millions to cancer

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from cigarettes. And I don't see the same push.

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for any of these conditions that are killing

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numerous times more people than COVID. Yes. Well,

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yesterday, our Virginia news here, the top story

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was Virginia. You know, we lost two. Two people

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died yesterday from COVID in Virginia. And this

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was the top statewide news story. Two people

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died. Well, how many people died of a heart attack

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or suicide or, goodness, a car wreck? You know,

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to make that headline news, it's just hysteria.

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Yeah, I agree with you 100 % that there are,

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you know, is this a thing? Yes, it is a thing.

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But it is certainly, it doesn't deserve the level

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of fear that it's... It's created, like you say,

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narrowing of arteries, different things, different

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diseases and things. We're still far behind many

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things. And the refusal of the data points to

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indicate who is getting this. I mean, it is so

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primarily toward people with comorbidities. But

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the data points just have to report the numbers

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because if you say that, if you point out that

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80 % of the people are over 80 years old, then

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suddenly you're expressing ageism and that sort

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of thing. And so isn't it amazing that out of

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this whole period of fear, quarantining, economic

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and emotional stress, Here we come in with the

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George Floyd thing. We come in with the urban

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violence thing and the looting and the racism.

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And, you know, cities are burning. And we just

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have, we have pent up. I'm convinced that much

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of this, you know, violence we're seeing in our

00:14:00.059 --> 00:14:07.340
cities right now is partly just. pent up it's

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it's pent up expression of four months of being

00:14:11.519 --> 00:14:14.840
couch potatoes and you know we're not we're not

00:14:14.840 --> 00:14:19.120
built to be uh hermit couch potatoes no i mean

00:14:19.120 --> 00:14:20.820
i think it's it's an interesting perspective

00:14:20.820 --> 00:14:24.080
even for the way we do prisons in a lot of the

00:14:24.080 --> 00:14:26.100
western world you know locking people away for

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hours and hours and hours this has been a great

00:14:28.000 --> 00:14:30.379
social experiment that that is not good for rehabilitation

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because it's it's turned some very seemingly

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normal people into some pretty crazy behaviors

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that you see on the news. But what I want to

00:14:41.090 --> 00:14:43.769
get to is the preventative side, because that's

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not what's being spoken about. And then I want

00:14:45.330 --> 00:14:47.870
to also get to the creation of some of these

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diseases through market and farming practices.

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But when this first kicked off, I made a video

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about... how I was worried about first responders

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because the shifts that they work, the long,

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long work weeks, they are, you know, the ones

00:15:02.480 --> 00:15:03.799
that people are leaning on. They're probably

00:15:03.799 --> 00:15:06.200
some of the less resilient people. And we've

00:15:06.200 --> 00:15:08.379
seen many, many police officers and firefighters

00:15:08.379 --> 00:15:11.879
die. I've got two friends that were both in ICU.

00:15:13.399 --> 00:15:16.120
Thankfully, they're both out now, but they had

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multiple things, multiple areas that would have

00:15:19.559 --> 00:15:21.960
compromised their immune system, which is why

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they had such a severe reaction. What are we

00:15:26.090 --> 00:15:29.149
doing wrong as a nation that's creating one of

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the wealthiest countries on the planet, you know,

00:15:31.870 --> 00:15:39.149
an ill health epidemic? Well, I think this has

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to go clear back to the soil that we, as a culture,

00:15:44.789 --> 00:15:47.870
I mean, we developed genetically modified organisms.

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We developed DDT, you know. Glyphosate. Goodness,

00:15:56.789 --> 00:16:00.450
we developed a food pyramid in 1979, the USDA

00:16:00.450 --> 00:16:05.210
did, that put Cheerios and Froot Loops on the

00:16:05.210 --> 00:16:10.509
foundational level of the food pyramid. As a

00:16:10.509 --> 00:16:14.649
nation, we were the first in the world to say

00:16:14.649 --> 00:16:21.090
it was wrong to eat lard and butter. and told

00:16:21.090 --> 00:16:24.090
everybody to go to hydrogenated vegetable oil.

00:16:24.129 --> 00:16:30.470
Remember all the margarine ads. And so my point

00:16:30.470 --> 00:16:36.789
there is that we have led the world in experimenting

00:16:36.789 --> 00:16:46.409
to the fringes of fake and adulterated fertilizer,

00:16:47.450 --> 00:16:51.009
soil development. plant development, and foods.

00:16:52.029 --> 00:16:55.809
Other cultures, I mean, you don't have to travel

00:16:55.809 --> 00:16:58.389
very much, but if you travel around the world,

00:16:58.909 --> 00:17:05.849
you will find that cultures really define themselves

00:17:05.849 --> 00:17:08.849
with a food culture, an architecture culture,

00:17:09.190 --> 00:17:12.470
a religion culture. I mean, Prince Charles says

00:17:12.470 --> 00:17:14.569
that every culture is defined by three things,

00:17:14.750 --> 00:17:20.200
food, architecture, and religion. When I go around

00:17:20.200 --> 00:17:22.299
the world and ask somebody in Germany or Sweden

00:17:22.299 --> 00:17:26.700
or, you know, Spain and say, when I say America

00:17:26.700 --> 00:17:30.539
food culture, what do you think of? I've never

00:17:30.539 --> 00:17:33.579
found anybody that said anything except McDonald's.

00:17:33.920 --> 00:17:39.859
And that represents the, you know, the most,

00:17:39.960 --> 00:17:44.380
you know, a factory farmed industrial chemical

00:17:44.380 --> 00:17:51.380
oriented food that is. that leads the world in

00:17:51.380 --> 00:17:55.240
numbers, in number of people who eat that kind

00:17:55.240 --> 00:17:58.380
of food as a percentage of per capita consumption.

00:17:59.039 --> 00:18:02.400
And number two, it came here first. And now,

00:18:02.400 --> 00:18:04.339
of course, we're trying to export this. We're

00:18:04.339 --> 00:18:06.720
exporting Coca -Cola, exporting McDonald's all

00:18:06.720 --> 00:18:11.579
over the world. And every culture, every country

00:18:11.579 --> 00:18:14.569
where these are exported, guess what? we see

00:18:14.569 --> 00:18:19.029
diabetes, we see obesity, and we see heart disease.

00:18:19.069 --> 00:18:21.589
You know, we see these things developing. So,

00:18:21.630 --> 00:18:24.210
you know, it's not rocket science just to appreciate

00:18:24.210 --> 00:18:32.470
that in our luxury and in our convenience -oriented,

00:18:32.569 --> 00:18:37.690
and I would just say non -cultural food tradition.

00:18:37.710 --> 00:18:40.849
I mean, there's a fascinating thread of thought

00:18:40.849 --> 00:18:46.250
that... For example, in Europe, the phrase is

00:18:46.250 --> 00:18:49.190
not, well, did you get enough to eat? It is rather,

00:18:49.589 --> 00:18:55.109
well, how did it taste? And in Europe, actually,

00:18:55.250 --> 00:19:01.250
there's a culture of eating not very much at

00:19:01.250 --> 00:19:06.529
a meal because it was in royalty. When you have

00:19:06.529 --> 00:19:10.890
royalty and peasants, you have a very demarcated

00:19:10.890 --> 00:19:16.029
culture. It was a sign of refinement and wealth

00:19:16.029 --> 00:19:21.089
that I didn't have to gorge on food because I

00:19:21.089 --> 00:19:24.609
knew there was another meal coming. In America,

00:19:24.890 --> 00:19:27.390
as we started, and I'm going back here, but,

00:19:27.410 --> 00:19:31.309
you know, listen, cultural DNA goes deep. And

00:19:31.309 --> 00:19:35.069
in America, where we came to this frontier, and

00:19:35.069 --> 00:19:36.690
you didn't know if you were going to get a next

00:19:36.690 --> 00:19:40.410
meal. we developed a food culture of getting

00:19:40.410 --> 00:19:43.789
enough. Did we get enough to survive? Read the

00:19:43.789 --> 00:19:45.650
Lewis and Clark expedition. I mean, these guys

00:19:45.650 --> 00:19:51.329
literally went, you know, day to day wondering

00:19:51.329 --> 00:19:52.970
if they were going to get something to eat. There

00:19:52.970 --> 00:19:59.809
were no big fat Dunkin' Donuts guys on the Lewis

00:19:59.809 --> 00:20:02.430
and Clark expedition. They were lean and mean,

00:20:02.490 --> 00:20:06.539
and they literally went from, you know, musket

00:20:06.539 --> 00:20:10.599
shot to musket shot with deer or bear or whatever

00:20:10.599 --> 00:20:15.799
they could get. And so our American food tradition

00:20:15.799 --> 00:20:20.759
was very, very different. We developed a very,

00:20:20.799 --> 00:20:24.619
very different tradition. It was not about quality.

00:20:24.640 --> 00:20:29.160
It was not about texture or taste or terroir,

00:20:29.460 --> 00:20:32.480
you know, like in France. There was nothing like

00:20:32.480 --> 00:20:34.960
that. It was just, you know, did you get enough

00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:38.890
to... to go another day. And this was even a

00:20:38.890 --> 00:20:41.069
Native American thing. I mean, one of the reasons

00:20:41.069 --> 00:20:43.710
the Native Americans were so prone to alcohol

00:20:43.710 --> 00:20:49.190
problems was because they ate sporadically. You

00:20:49.190 --> 00:20:50.950
know, when the bison were around and they could

00:20:50.950 --> 00:20:54.950
get enough to eat, they would eat up to 10 pounds

00:20:54.950 --> 00:20:58.470
of bison in a day and just sit around and gorge

00:20:58.470 --> 00:21:01.329
for a week. Because it might be, you know, a

00:21:01.329 --> 00:21:02.609
couple of weeks until they got another really

00:21:02.609 --> 00:21:06.670
good meal. And so this was also a Native American

00:21:06.670 --> 00:21:10.509
thing as well. And so, you know, the Europeans,

00:21:10.549 --> 00:21:12.309
as they came here and interacted with the Native

00:21:12.309 --> 00:21:21.690
Americans and saw the lack of security, you know,

00:21:21.690 --> 00:21:34.170
our deep, deep DNA in our area is a food. Did

00:21:34.170 --> 00:21:38.690
you get enough? Did you fill up of food feasting?

00:21:39.430 --> 00:21:47.910
Or I should even say indulgence and overheating

00:21:47.910 --> 00:21:54.410
as opposed to the more European concept. And

00:21:54.410 --> 00:21:58.349
so that's deep in our DNA. And so as we have

00:21:58.349 --> 00:22:02.490
come in our... modern culture to where we were

00:22:02.490 --> 00:22:04.750
able to grow plenty and we were able to grow

00:22:04.750 --> 00:22:09.349
it cheaply, we didn't have a food tradition,

00:22:09.410 --> 00:22:14.069
if you will, a quality -type food tradition like

00:22:14.069 --> 00:22:18.490
in Europe. We developed a more kind of food as

00:22:18.490 --> 00:22:21.690
a necessity. It's a sideline, but the real work

00:22:21.690 --> 00:22:26.630
is building railroads and doing important work.

00:22:27.160 --> 00:22:30.099
And food's kind of a sideline to the really important

00:22:30.099 --> 00:22:33.599
stuff in life. And that's kind of our culture.

00:22:33.700 --> 00:22:40.740
And so the result is that we don't put attention

00:22:40.740 --> 00:22:45.160
on food like other cultures do. Now, you mentioned

00:22:45.160 --> 00:22:49.680
about the railroads and everything. The one thing

00:22:49.680 --> 00:22:51.359
that I see over and over again, you can talk

00:22:51.359 --> 00:22:55.279
about the industrialization of food, the mega

00:22:55.279 --> 00:22:57.559
farms, and even things like racism, starting

00:22:57.559 --> 00:23:00.779
with slavery, is the common denominator is a

00:23:00.779 --> 00:23:03.400
few people wanting to get incredibly wealthy

00:23:03.400 --> 00:23:08.319
at the expense of the masses. So seeing as we're

00:23:08.319 --> 00:23:09.960
on this kind of history timeline, kind of walk

00:23:09.960 --> 00:23:14.019
us through how we went from more local farms

00:23:14.019 --> 00:23:17.529
to the industrialization and then what... impact

00:23:17.529 --> 00:23:20.170
that had back in the middle of last century?

00:23:21.609 --> 00:23:28.589
Sure, sure. So I think all of us can bear blame.

00:23:28.930 --> 00:23:33.130
I mean, I'm not a victim kind of person. I can

00:23:33.130 --> 00:23:35.769
repent. I've got plenty enough stuff to repent

00:23:35.769 --> 00:23:39.549
about as well as anybody else. And so I think

00:23:39.549 --> 00:23:46.059
a simplistic answer to that is not helpful. We

00:23:46.059 --> 00:23:48.319
need to understand that all of us as a culture,

00:23:48.359 --> 00:23:53.619
we were complicit in this move from craft and

00:23:53.619 --> 00:23:57.740
artisan work and small farms to these industrial

00:23:57.740 --> 00:24:02.240
mega farms, monocropping, mono things. And again,

00:24:02.319 --> 00:24:07.319
part of this was due to food security and government

00:24:07.319 --> 00:24:11.019
thinking, well, we can move this along, we can

00:24:11.019 --> 00:24:13.779
incentivize so that we're never short of food

00:24:13.779 --> 00:24:19.779
at all. And so early in the 20th century, we

00:24:19.779 --> 00:24:22.440
started the food programs, we started subsidies.

00:24:22.799 --> 00:24:25.819
Of course, Abraham Lincoln started the USDA,

00:24:26.339 --> 00:24:30.059
which I'm sure he thought would be helpful, but

00:24:30.059 --> 00:24:34.799
it turned out that the fraternity between the

00:24:34.799 --> 00:24:40.579
government and the industry was a bit of an unholy

00:24:40.579 --> 00:24:44.880
alliance. created amalgamation, centralization,

00:24:45.079 --> 00:24:47.240
and of course everything was about efficiency.

00:24:47.359 --> 00:24:53.420
Can we be efficient? And so as our country industrialized,

00:24:53.500 --> 00:24:57.259
we saw food as an industrial thing as well. And

00:24:57.259 --> 00:25:00.819
America, again, more than any other culture,

00:25:00.960 --> 00:25:07.420
I think, bought into this idea that life is mechanical,

00:25:07.740 --> 00:25:14.259
kind of a mechanical view toward life. rather

00:25:14.259 --> 00:25:18.220
than life being biological. And, you know, are

00:25:18.220 --> 00:25:20.420
there some, you know, mechanical elements? Well,

00:25:20.460 --> 00:25:22.259
yeah, you know, you've got leverage in your limbs

00:25:22.259 --> 00:25:24.819
and joints and things like that. There are certainly

00:25:24.819 --> 00:25:31.220
mechanical elements. But the idea of biology,

00:25:31.519 --> 00:25:34.859
where it can heal, where it can be wounded and

00:25:34.859 --> 00:25:37.240
heal, that's very non -mechanical. You know,

00:25:37.259 --> 00:25:43.450
if you're... front wheel bearing goes out and

00:25:43.450 --> 00:25:47.150
starts to thump, you don't stop the truck and

00:25:47.150 --> 00:25:50.890
wait for it to heal or go around and ask for

00:25:50.890 --> 00:25:54.589
it to forgive you for not lubricating it. Nothing

00:25:54.589 --> 00:25:59.029
repairs it except replacing the bearing. But

00:25:59.029 --> 00:26:02.609
fortunately, living things, including our own

00:26:02.609 --> 00:26:08.740
psychology, we can say, you know, an unkind word

00:26:08.740 --> 00:26:11.599
to somebody and then apologize, and that wound

00:26:11.599 --> 00:26:15.099
can heal. And physically it can heal. We get

00:26:15.099 --> 00:26:17.980
a scrape, we get a splinter, we get a cut, and

00:26:17.980 --> 00:26:21.380
it can heal. That's very different biologically

00:26:21.380 --> 00:26:30.099
than mechanically. But we developed these chemical

00:26:30.099 --> 00:26:32.900
fertilizers, the pesticides, the herbicides.

00:26:32.980 --> 00:26:35.119
Of course, World War II, we had these stockpiles.

00:26:35.579 --> 00:26:40.059
of anhydrous ammonia. And frankly, farmers were

00:26:40.059 --> 00:26:43.640
tired of shoveling poop, very tired of shoveling

00:26:43.640 --> 00:26:45.339
poop. We'd shoveled and shoveled and shoveled

00:26:45.339 --> 00:26:48.420
and shoveled and shoveled. And boy, if you present

00:26:48.420 --> 00:26:50.559
a farmer, do you want to shovel poop all day,

00:26:50.660 --> 00:26:52.660
or would you rather just put on this little bag

00:26:52.660 --> 00:26:58.079
of 5 -10 -10 and be done with it? almost any

00:26:58.079 --> 00:27:00.759
farmer is going to grab that bag of 5, 10, 10.

00:27:00.779 --> 00:27:04.140
So be gentle on great -grandpa in post -World

00:27:04.140 --> 00:27:06.480
War II when he reached for that bag of chemical

00:27:06.480 --> 00:27:09.220
fertilizer when he was worn out and tired of

00:27:09.220 --> 00:27:11.380
shoveling and shoveling. Well, what happened

00:27:11.380 --> 00:27:18.299
was that through the 1950s and early 1960s, as

00:27:18.299 --> 00:27:24.359
mechanization and equipment developed on farms,

00:27:27.509 --> 00:27:29.750
The other side was not standing still either.

00:27:29.809 --> 00:27:32.970
The infrastructure necessary to run a carbon

00:27:32.970 --> 00:27:36.809
-based, organic matter -based farm fertility

00:27:36.809 --> 00:27:40.049
program was also developing. We're talking about

00:27:40.049 --> 00:27:43.470
water pipe, front -end loaders, PTO shafts, ground

00:27:43.470 --> 00:27:46.029
-driven manure spreaders, chippers and shredders,

00:27:46.049 --> 00:27:50.509
and that sort of thing. And so the infrastructure

00:27:50.509 --> 00:27:56.589
to run a credible, viable, alternative... carbon

00:27:56.589 --> 00:28:01.609
-based, non -chemical approach was well in place

00:28:01.609 --> 00:28:05.329
by the mid-'60s and late-'60s. But by that time,

00:28:05.410 --> 00:28:10.769
the chemical approach had completely come to

00:28:10.769 --> 00:28:13.970
dominate our universities, our government institutions,

00:28:14.670 --> 00:28:19.089
and even the food system. So you have that thread

00:28:19.089 --> 00:28:23.950
on the farm. Meanwhile, you have post -World

00:28:23.950 --> 00:28:30.069
War II. Tax policy, taxes are going up, and so

00:28:30.069 --> 00:28:32.410
we've got to have, we've got to take, we have

00:28:32.410 --> 00:28:35.609
two incomers instead of one incomer. Took the

00:28:35.609 --> 00:28:37.710
woman out of the house. I'm being very sexist,

00:28:37.769 --> 00:28:40.450
but this is fact. This is the way it was. Took

00:28:40.450 --> 00:28:42.829
the women out of the house. Well, now they can't

00:28:42.829 --> 00:28:45.130
cook anymore, so now we've got to have TV dinners.

00:28:45.309 --> 00:28:49.289
Those came in in the late 50s. You also had the

00:28:49.289 --> 00:28:52.829
notion in the 50s that breastfeeding babies was

00:28:52.829 --> 00:28:55.759
somehow Neanderthal and barbaric. And if you

00:28:55.759 --> 00:29:00.140
wanted to really be, you know, hip and modern,

00:29:00.500 --> 00:29:03.579
you used infamil and similac. We raised a generation

00:29:03.579 --> 00:29:07.819
of asthmatics on artificial milk. Now we know,

00:29:07.859 --> 00:29:10.519
of course, that breast milk is absolutely the

00:29:10.519 --> 00:29:13.539
best. We have, you know, that whole orthodox

00:29:13.539 --> 00:29:17.700
narrative is inverted back to, you know, ancient

00:29:17.700 --> 00:29:20.940
heritage wisdom of not only is it healthy for

00:29:20.940 --> 00:29:23.680
the baby, but in post -life we know that there's

00:29:23.680 --> 00:29:26.440
a directly... between breast cancer and breastfeeding.

00:29:26.579 --> 00:29:29.640
And if breastfeeding has occurred, there's a

00:29:29.640 --> 00:29:33.119
lot less breast cancer later on in life. All

00:29:33.119 --> 00:29:38.599
those things develop. So our pendulum really,

00:29:38.880 --> 00:29:42.759
really swung into this industrial paradigm of

00:29:42.759 --> 00:29:47.519
life, this kind of artificial, sterile, mechanical

00:29:47.519 --> 00:29:59.660
life view. And as a result, measure is pounds

00:29:59.660 --> 00:30:03.220
and efficiency. And when you just measure in

00:30:03.220 --> 00:30:08.140
pounds and efficiency without regard to quality,

00:30:08.339 --> 00:30:13.960
without regard to destruction of something on

00:30:13.960 --> 00:30:17.819
the way to that, like every bushel of corn loses

00:30:17.819 --> 00:30:24.269
two bushels of soil. a dead zone the size of

00:30:24.269 --> 00:30:28.309
Rhode Island and the Gulf of Mexico, those externalized

00:30:28.309 --> 00:30:32.210
costs on the way to efficiency today, we basically

00:30:32.210 --> 00:30:37.450
sold the future for today's prosperity. And the

00:30:37.450 --> 00:30:42.690
result of that has been a new lexicon that's

00:30:42.690 --> 00:30:45.190
developed in our culture. I mean, those of us

00:30:45.190 --> 00:30:51.670
over 60 years old, we, as children, We never

00:30:51.670 --> 00:30:54.450
heard terms like food allergy. You know, if you

00:30:54.450 --> 00:30:57.569
wanted a potluck or a birthday party, moms didn't

00:30:57.569 --> 00:30:59.910
have to call each other and say, you know, what

00:30:59.910 --> 00:31:02.490
kind of food allergies am I dealing with? You

00:31:02.490 --> 00:31:04.970
just got together and shared food, you know.

00:31:05.849 --> 00:31:10.069
E. coli, salmonella, campylobacter, listeria,

00:31:10.210 --> 00:31:14.089
bovine spongiform encephalopathy, high -path

00:31:14.089 --> 00:31:18.210
avian influenza. I mean, this is all. a lexicon,

00:31:18.309 --> 00:31:21.089
food allergy, all a lexicon that's developed

00:31:21.089 --> 00:31:25.190
as a result of cheating and taking shortcuts

00:31:25.190 --> 00:31:30.430
with our ecological womb, our ecological umbilical.

00:31:30.769 --> 00:31:34.650
And more and more of us now are realizing, oh,

00:31:34.869 --> 00:31:38.430
well, I guess resiliency is as important as efficiency.

00:31:38.750 --> 00:31:42.950
And we need to think about how we actually have

00:31:42.950 --> 00:31:45.549
a regenerative food system that regenerates the

00:31:45.549 --> 00:31:49.180
soil. regenerates the commons, air, water, and

00:31:49.180 --> 00:31:53.420
regenerates the human strength. How do we have

00:31:53.420 --> 00:31:57.740
a food and farming system that is fundamentally

00:31:57.740 --> 00:32:02.339
biological and regenerative as opposed to just

00:32:02.339 --> 00:32:06.480
mechanical, exploitive, and efficient? And those

00:32:06.480 --> 00:32:10.559
are the conversations now that this whole, that

00:32:10.559 --> 00:32:14.359
our disruptive point in history. Those are the

00:32:14.359 --> 00:32:19.000
conversations we're starting to have, and I would

00:32:19.000 --> 00:32:23.720
just say it's about time, and it's a very positive

00:32:23.720 --> 00:32:26.380
thing. It's the silver lining of the cloud of

00:32:26.380 --> 00:32:30.039
the uncertain, insecure times we're dealing in

00:32:30.039 --> 00:32:35.119
to be actually pushed to start having some of

00:32:35.119 --> 00:32:37.619
these conversations. Yeah, well, I'm glad that

00:32:37.619 --> 00:32:39.660
you highlighted the ownership of each one of

00:32:39.660 --> 00:32:42.819
us as well, because when you look at that path,

00:32:43.450 --> 00:32:45.869
you realize that we created it. The reason why

00:32:45.869 --> 00:32:48.990
that mega supermarket made it in your town and

00:32:48.990 --> 00:32:51.470
shut down the butcher and the baker and everyone

00:32:51.470 --> 00:32:55.809
else was because we went there. But I think what

00:32:55.809 --> 00:32:58.049
is very empowering is if we take that lesson

00:32:58.049 --> 00:33:01.569
and get over the shame, if we can realize that

00:33:01.569 --> 00:33:05.569
the absolute opposite is also in effect. So if

00:33:05.569 --> 00:33:09.059
we choose to now... Now we understand that to

00:33:09.059 --> 00:33:11.980
go seek out our local farmers, you know, support

00:33:11.980 --> 00:33:15.359
the brand new butcher or, you know, craft brewer

00:33:15.359 --> 00:33:19.039
or coffee shop, whatever it is, then we are going

00:33:19.039 --> 00:33:20.960
to turn that around ourselves. And that's what

00:33:20.960 --> 00:33:22.779
I've learned. And I grew up in England and then,

00:33:22.819 --> 00:33:24.740
you know, moved here about almost 20 years ago

00:33:24.740 --> 00:33:27.460
now. Whether it's a prime minister in the UK

00:33:27.460 --> 00:33:29.579
or a president here, none of those people are

00:33:29.579 --> 00:33:31.720
going to fix your problems for you. We as the

00:33:31.720 --> 00:33:33.859
nation have to band together and we can vote.

00:33:33.980 --> 00:33:35.980
And I don't think that the actual ballot slip

00:33:35.980 --> 00:33:38.180
does too much, to be honest. But I think the

00:33:38.180 --> 00:33:39.980
dollar or the pound does an incredible amount.

00:33:40.420 --> 00:33:44.460
So by us searching the right places, the small

00:33:44.460 --> 00:33:47.799
farms and all the areas that actually are healthy,

00:33:47.920 --> 00:33:50.519
we can reverse it. But we have to do it together.

00:33:52.259 --> 00:33:58.230
Yes. Whatever physical manifestation we have

00:33:58.230 --> 00:34:01.730
right now, whether it's eroding soil or nutrient

00:34:01.730 --> 00:34:05.529
deficient food or full hospitals or whatever

00:34:05.529 --> 00:34:11.849
it is, is simply a cumulative physical manifestation

00:34:11.849 --> 00:34:15.170
of trillions and trillions of decisions that

00:34:15.170 --> 00:34:20.409
we have made over the course of history. We have

00:34:20.409 --> 00:34:24.889
arrived where we've... we have arrived where

00:34:24.889 --> 00:34:28.110
we are because we've been traveling that direction.

00:34:28.489 --> 00:34:31.309
And if we want to arrive at a different point,

00:34:31.489 --> 00:34:35.170
we need to travel a different direction. And

00:34:35.170 --> 00:34:42.809
so, yes, you're exactly right. Tomorrow's context,

00:34:43.469 --> 00:34:47.329
you know, let's just go out 50 years to maybe

00:34:47.329 --> 00:34:50.050
our grandchildren, when they're our age, when

00:34:50.050 --> 00:34:55.340
their context, will also be a physical manifestation

00:34:55.340 --> 00:34:58.619
of the trillions and trillions of decisions that

00:34:58.619 --> 00:35:04.239
will be made between now and then. And that sounds

00:35:04.239 --> 00:35:10.260
simplistic, but it's absolutely true. And so

00:35:10.260 --> 00:35:13.300
as we start making different decisions, we're

00:35:13.300 --> 00:35:15.000
going to change that trajectory. You know, on

00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:20.320
our little farm, whatever, cooler bags. We have

00:35:20.320 --> 00:35:22.400
our logo on one side and on the other side is

00:35:22.400 --> 00:35:25.639
a moniker that says healing the land one bite

00:35:25.639 --> 00:35:29.139
at a time. And we put that on there so that all

00:35:29.139 --> 00:35:32.900
of our customers understand that when you buy

00:35:32.900 --> 00:35:38.460
soil building, water replenishing, air refreshing,

00:35:38.719 --> 00:35:45.880
nutrient dense food, you are creating a fundamentally

00:35:45.880 --> 00:35:51.989
healing context. as opposed to a sickening context.

00:35:52.650 --> 00:35:59.409
And that's a legacy worth investing in, and it's

00:35:59.409 --> 00:36:03.369
a legacy worth leaving. Yeah, and I think that's

00:36:03.369 --> 00:36:06.409
a very important point that a lot of people misunderstand,

00:36:06.510 --> 00:36:10.550
is that America is overfed, but we're malnourished.

00:36:10.730 --> 00:36:15.090
And I think that the lack of education of the

00:36:15.090 --> 00:36:18.510
impact of destroying our soil having on the actual

00:36:18.510 --> 00:36:20.829
nutrients of the food that we put in our mouths

00:36:20.829 --> 00:36:25.670
is a lesson that needs to be taught. So how do

00:36:25.670 --> 00:36:28.329
we reverse the damage that we've done to our

00:36:28.329 --> 00:36:32.449
agricultural land? And how can we regenerate

00:36:32.449 --> 00:36:35.909
it to the point where we can create incredibly

00:36:35.909 --> 00:36:41.309
nutritious foods again? Yeah, well, there are

00:36:41.309 --> 00:36:44.190
kind of two threads of thought. On that question,

00:36:44.429 --> 00:36:47.429
I mean, one threat is, well, we need better ag

00:36:47.429 --> 00:36:52.449
policy, a better farm bill. We need to quit subsidizing

00:36:52.449 --> 00:36:58.510
and protecting corn, soybeans, cotton, sugar,

00:36:58.670 --> 00:37:03.750
and rice and wheat, the six commodity crops that

00:37:03.750 --> 00:37:07.030
all require tillage and use by far and away the

00:37:07.030 --> 00:37:10.230
largest share of chemicals and pesticides on

00:37:10.230 --> 00:37:14.710
the planet. So there's that element, just a change

00:37:14.710 --> 00:37:20.829
of policy. But that's the bogeyman after. That's

00:37:20.829 --> 00:37:22.690
the easy way to point your finger and say, okay,

00:37:22.750 --> 00:37:25.849
I'm not responsible. Somebody else has to fix

00:37:25.849 --> 00:37:28.309
this. That's always the temptation, isn't it?

00:37:28.690 --> 00:37:31.510
Well, I can't do anything about this. I can't

00:37:31.510 --> 00:37:34.630
change policy, so I go on my merry way. Which

00:37:34.630 --> 00:37:36.610
brings me to the second thread, and the second

00:37:36.610 --> 00:37:40.969
thread is, what can we do personally? I'm not

00:37:40.969 --> 00:37:44.190
real optimistic about whatever governmental direction,

00:37:44.570 --> 00:37:49.230
you know, federal change of orthodoxy. I mean,

00:37:49.269 --> 00:37:54.550
you see stuff change once in a while, but in

00:37:54.550 --> 00:38:00.090
general, the trajectory seems to be not toward

00:38:00.090 --> 00:38:02.949
a good place. And so that brings me back to the

00:38:02.949 --> 00:38:06.130
thread of personal responsibility. What can I

00:38:06.130 --> 00:38:11.719
do? And I kind of have three. Three areas that

00:38:11.719 --> 00:38:22.639
a person can participate in today. One is you

00:38:22.639 --> 00:38:27.780
can get in your kitchen. Again, that's not a

00:38:27.780 --> 00:38:32.239
sexist thing, but in our kitchens. We have never

00:38:32.239 --> 00:38:37.239
had so many techno, glitzy, gadgetized, convenient...

00:38:39.019 --> 00:38:41.460
infrastructure in our chickens and our kitchens,

00:38:41.500 --> 00:38:45.760
but we've never been so lost as to how to use

00:38:45.760 --> 00:38:49.280
them, where they are. The average American spends

00:38:49.280 --> 00:38:52.539
less than 14 minutes a day in their kitchen.

00:38:52.820 --> 00:38:57.659
And I heard a food talk lately, actually a professor

00:38:57.659 --> 00:39:02.800
from Oxford in England, and he's a food marketing

00:39:02.800 --> 00:39:07.369
guru. And he said, and he's older, He said, in

00:39:07.369 --> 00:39:09.550
my generation, we always asked, what's for dinner?

00:39:09.690 --> 00:39:12.349
And today's young people ask, what's dinner?

00:39:12.710 --> 00:39:18.489
And that was a really profound phrase. I thought

00:39:18.489 --> 00:39:21.369
it was great because it's true. You know, we

00:39:21.369 --> 00:39:26.050
buy little single -serving packages. And so kind

00:39:26.050 --> 00:39:32.170
of my new litmus test for people that are thinking

00:39:32.170 --> 00:39:37.219
about this is, are you eating leftovers? Because

00:39:37.219 --> 00:39:39.400
leftovers show that you actually probably cooked

00:39:39.400 --> 00:39:43.340
something from scratch, you ate as a family,

00:39:43.699 --> 00:39:48.320
and you're not going out to eat tomorrow. For

00:39:48.320 --> 00:39:51.179
lunch, you're going to have leftovers. I mean,

00:39:51.219 --> 00:39:53.980
I've lived on leftovers all my life. I love them.

00:39:55.539 --> 00:39:58.460
There's nothing more convenient than eating leftovers.

00:39:59.480 --> 00:40:02.340
So get in your kitchen. That's number one. Number

00:40:02.340 --> 00:40:06.829
two is do something yourself. You can get a vermicomposting,

00:40:06.829 --> 00:40:10.110
a little earthworm bed under your kitchen sink

00:40:10.110 --> 00:40:13.369
to eat your food scraps. You can grow a tomato

00:40:13.369 --> 00:40:16.969
on the patio, on the front porch, a little herb.

00:40:17.110 --> 00:40:21.650
Now there's all these cool little urban gardening

00:40:21.650 --> 00:40:27.730
gadgets from PVC pipes with pockets in them that

00:40:27.730 --> 00:40:34.219
you can hang on your front porch. you know, window

00:40:34.219 --> 00:40:38.500
boxes to, you know, postage stamp backyard kinds

00:40:38.500 --> 00:40:42.440
of things, you know, barrel gardens, all sorts

00:40:42.440 --> 00:40:45.239
of things. So, you know, you can grow something

00:40:45.239 --> 00:40:48.940
yourself and just participate in the majesty,

00:40:48.980 --> 00:40:53.619
the mystery, and the awesomeness of life. It'll

00:40:53.619 --> 00:40:55.960
teach you to be humble and realize that, you

00:40:55.960 --> 00:40:57.539
know, I'm not the center of the universe. There's

00:40:57.539 --> 00:40:59.639
something bigger going on here than just me.

00:40:59.840 --> 00:41:02.840
And the third thing, So we've got get in your

00:41:02.840 --> 00:41:04.920
kitchen, number two, grow something yourself,

00:41:05.119 --> 00:41:09.460
anything. And number three, then, is to take

00:41:09.460 --> 00:41:14.019
some, a portion, budget your recreational entertainment

00:41:14.019 --> 00:41:18.960
time and build some relationships with your local

00:41:18.960 --> 00:41:24.340
food shed. You know, every area now has really

00:41:24.340 --> 00:41:28.760
great authentic integrity farms that are, you

00:41:28.760 --> 00:41:32.159
know, with compost instead of chemicals. They

00:41:32.159 --> 00:41:37.000
are producing a diversified product as opposed

00:41:37.000 --> 00:41:43.760
to monocrops. And most of them are direct marketing

00:41:43.760 --> 00:41:46.440
or they have some sort of a local brand identity.

00:41:47.639 --> 00:41:50.400
Meet some of these people. Go visit their farms.

00:41:52.159 --> 00:41:56.039
And let me tell you, right now during this whole

00:41:56.039 --> 00:41:58.889
coronavirus thing, There's not a better place

00:41:58.889 --> 00:42:05.989
to go that's safer and more entertaining than

00:42:05.989 --> 00:42:08.530
a farm. I mean, this isn't Disney World. It's

00:42:08.530 --> 00:42:11.610
not, you know, it's not a theme park. It's not

00:42:11.610 --> 00:42:15.010
even a museum, you know. It's just out here in

00:42:15.010 --> 00:42:18.070
the country. Wiggle your fingers through some

00:42:18.070 --> 00:42:22.150
soil. Walk barefoot through the pasture, you

00:42:22.150 --> 00:42:26.250
know, and start creating some relationships and

00:42:26.250 --> 00:42:29.050
connections. with your local farmer food shed

00:42:29.050 --> 00:42:33.489
so that you will have that level of connection

00:42:33.489 --> 00:42:36.349
and food security so you're not the one that's

00:42:36.349 --> 00:42:38.070
stuck in the future. The one that's stuck is

00:42:38.070 --> 00:42:40.030
the one that goes to the supermarket and says,

00:42:40.110 --> 00:42:42.710
ooh, the shelves are empty. But I know where

00:42:42.710 --> 00:42:45.170
my food is. It's right here at Farmer John's

00:42:45.170 --> 00:42:49.230
or Farmer Jill's or whatever. And if you develop

00:42:49.230 --> 00:42:52.210
that, your farmers will take care of you also

00:42:52.210 --> 00:42:56.420
during good times and bad or whatever. So those

00:42:56.420 --> 00:43:01.360
are three things that anybody could do to invest

00:43:01.360 --> 00:43:04.599
in a different trajectory than the way we've

00:43:04.599 --> 00:43:07.000
been going. Well, I love that. You hit on a very,

00:43:07.019 --> 00:43:08.699
very important point as well, and something I

00:43:08.699 --> 00:43:12.139
just kind of had an epiphany on recently. When

00:43:12.139 --> 00:43:15.019
you said leftovers, so in the fitness space,

00:43:15.320 --> 00:43:17.960
there has been this big kind of upsurgence of

00:43:17.960 --> 00:43:21.429
what they call meal prepping. And you basically,

00:43:21.469 --> 00:43:23.610
you know, prepare meals for several days and

00:43:23.610 --> 00:43:25.929
you either freeze them or whatever. But basically,

00:43:25.949 --> 00:43:29.590
that's what we call leftovers for hundreds and

00:43:29.590 --> 00:43:31.469
hundreds of years, because I grew up on a farm.

00:43:31.510 --> 00:43:33.110
It was the same thing. They'd cook for double

00:43:33.110 --> 00:43:35.329
the size of the family. And that way, the next

00:43:35.329 --> 00:43:36.889
day you had, you know, it doesn't have to be

00:43:36.889 --> 00:43:39.250
the next day, even a day or two later, you ate

00:43:39.250 --> 00:43:43.539
what you ate. prior and is no more convenient

00:43:43.539 --> 00:43:45.940
than leftovers. I mean, even McDonald's, you've

00:43:45.940 --> 00:43:47.880
still got to go there and sit in a car in a drive

00:43:47.880 --> 00:43:50.440
-thru or wait in a line, whereas you just open

00:43:50.440 --> 00:43:52.199
your fridge and the meal that you cooked a couple

00:43:52.199 --> 00:43:53.980
of days ago is now there just to be heated up

00:43:53.980 --> 00:43:57.659
again. Yeah, that's exactly right. And again,

00:43:57.920 --> 00:44:00.599
when I say get in the kitchen, you know, I'm

00:44:00.599 --> 00:44:03.079
not talking about grandma's kitchen where, you

00:44:03.079 --> 00:44:04.840
know, she had to get up at four o 'clock to put

00:44:04.840 --> 00:44:07.380
wood in the stove to get it hot enough to fry

00:44:07.380 --> 00:44:09.659
eggs on when papa came in for milking the cow.

00:44:10.239 --> 00:44:14.300
I mean, we now have time -baked, and we've got

00:44:14.300 --> 00:44:18.219
bread makers, ice cream makers, hot and cold

00:44:18.219 --> 00:44:21.920
running water, and refrigerators and freezers

00:44:21.920 --> 00:44:27.559
and, you know, microwaves and all the gadgetry

00:44:27.559 --> 00:44:31.400
that you can imagine. So it's never, the thing

00:44:31.400 --> 00:44:35.019
is, it's never been easier. It's never been more

00:44:35.019 --> 00:44:40.750
convenient to be in our kitchens. Let's utilize

00:44:40.750 --> 00:44:46.530
the technology that we have. Never has it been

00:44:46.530 --> 00:44:52.809
easier to eat more responsibly than now. And

00:44:52.809 --> 00:44:56.269
so we need to exercise that. Absolutely. Well,

00:44:56.329 --> 00:44:59.789
another area that I really want to get your perspective

00:44:59.789 --> 00:45:04.530
on is, do you know who Jamie Oliver is, a British

00:45:04.530 --> 00:45:07.940
cook? Oh, absolutely. So Jamie did an incredible

00:45:07.940 --> 00:45:10.139
thing in the UK. I think he tried to do it here

00:45:10.139 --> 00:45:13.920
in the US as well, where he changed what school

00:45:13.920 --> 00:45:16.400
food looked like in British schools and tried

00:45:16.400 --> 00:45:19.539
over here in the US. And to me, that is absolutely

00:45:19.539 --> 00:45:22.239
where the first line needs to be. If we're educating

00:45:22.239 --> 00:45:24.679
our children on what food is, how it's grown,

00:45:24.860 --> 00:45:27.900
and then serving that same clean food in their

00:45:27.900 --> 00:45:30.860
cafeterias, you're going to create an entire

00:45:30.860 --> 00:45:33.949
generation of kids that... aren't programmed

00:45:33.949 --> 00:45:36.769
by fast food and processed food anymore. But

00:45:36.769 --> 00:45:38.869
one of the pushbacks I always hear from people,

00:45:38.949 --> 00:45:40.889
and I think it comes from a lack of education,

00:45:41.110 --> 00:45:44.449
is, oh, that would be more expensive. And Jamie

00:45:44.449 --> 00:45:46.829
appeared to show that that was absolutely false

00:45:46.829 --> 00:45:51.429
in the documentaries that he was shown in, doing

00:45:51.429 --> 00:45:54.849
that in the schools that he worked with. So from

00:45:54.849 --> 00:45:58.190
your perspective... Can we feed our children

00:45:58.190 --> 00:46:00.849
in the schools for the same budget that they're

00:46:00.849 --> 00:46:04.289
given for whatever it is, Cisco food that's shipped

00:46:04.289 --> 00:46:11.730
in? From my perspective, no. We are going to

00:46:11.730 --> 00:46:18.269
have to invest more in food. And I'd love to

00:46:18.269 --> 00:46:21.150
see some of his budgeting. I know there are major

00:46:21.150 --> 00:46:26.340
cost savings. For example, If the school actually

00:46:26.340 --> 00:46:29.579
cooks food instead of getting all pre -processed,

00:46:29.579 --> 00:46:32.139
there can be some pretty significant savings.

00:46:32.579 --> 00:46:36.440
Also, I know that nutrient -dense food satiates

00:46:36.440 --> 00:46:39.559
faster, so you don't need to eat the volume that

00:46:39.559 --> 00:46:43.019
you do when you're just eating empty calories

00:46:43.019 --> 00:46:46.579
or calories that aren't hooked up with depth

00:46:46.579 --> 00:46:51.500
nutrition. And so there are some – I'm sure some

00:46:51.500 --> 00:46:53.679
of this is all part of that. Of course, there's

00:46:53.679 --> 00:47:00.059
always the externalized cost of higher quality

00:47:00.059 --> 00:47:03.460
food – I'm sorry, of cheap food. Externalized

00:47:03.460 --> 00:47:06.739
cost from dead zones in riparian areas to the

00:47:06.739 --> 00:47:10.559
fact that half of all cases of diarrhea are from

00:47:10.559 --> 00:47:20.010
foodborne illness. And we just have all of the

00:47:20.010 --> 00:47:23.630
diseases of nutrient deficiency as well. And

00:47:23.630 --> 00:47:27.230
I don't think we've begun to explore all of those

00:47:27.230 --> 00:47:31.690
externalized costs. But, you know, good food

00:47:31.690 --> 00:47:35.809
goes faster. It goes farther. I mean, I was telling

00:47:35.809 --> 00:47:38.570
a guy yesterday, recounting a story that we got

00:47:38.570 --> 00:47:42.989
from a chef that we started taking eggs to, and

00:47:42.989 --> 00:47:45.400
our eggs were like, you know. three times as

00:47:45.400 --> 00:47:48.139
expensive as the Cisco eggs he'd been using.

00:47:49.239 --> 00:47:51.460
But he said, we actually make more money with

00:47:51.460 --> 00:47:56.360
yours because in the regular industrial eggs,

00:47:56.400 --> 00:47:59.119
there's always a couple cracked or broken in

00:47:59.119 --> 00:48:02.199
the flat because the shells are thin. Well, those

00:48:02.199 --> 00:48:04.059
have leaked over onto their partners, and you

00:48:04.059 --> 00:48:05.760
end up sticking your finger through a couple

00:48:05.760 --> 00:48:07.599
of those, trying to get them dislodged from the

00:48:07.599 --> 00:48:13.150
glue of the... white that's leaked out into its

00:48:13.150 --> 00:48:16.510
neighbor, you know, egg. And then if somebody

00:48:16.510 --> 00:48:21.030
wants an overeasy or sunny side up fried egg,

00:48:21.170 --> 00:48:25.050
then next thing you know, the yolk breaks because

00:48:25.050 --> 00:48:28.289
you don't have structural integrity in the egg.

00:48:28.369 --> 00:48:29.809
You have to throw that one away, get another

00:48:29.809 --> 00:48:32.090
one. So he said, even though we're paying more

00:48:32.090 --> 00:48:35.289
for yours, they actually go a lot farther because

00:48:35.289 --> 00:48:37.269
we never have to throw one away. There's never

00:48:37.269 --> 00:48:42.400
a broken one. And, of course, it's not just a

00:48:42.400 --> 00:48:44.679
broken egg or the throwaway. Then you have the

00:48:44.679 --> 00:48:47.179
labor, you have the cooking time. All of those

00:48:47.179 --> 00:48:50.260
kinds of things add up. We know, for example,

00:48:50.460 --> 00:48:55.599
that all of our meats cook 20 % to 30 % faster

00:48:55.599 --> 00:49:00.559
than industrial meat. And we believe that it's

00:49:00.559 --> 00:49:03.860
because industrial meat is all full of adrenaline.

00:49:04.099 --> 00:49:08.300
Adrenaline tightens up muscle tissue. And these

00:49:08.300 --> 00:49:10.619
factory animals, they're stressed their entire

00:49:10.619 --> 00:49:13.739
life. And so all that cumulative stress comes

00:49:13.739 --> 00:49:19.059
out into the meat, into the muscle tissue, and

00:49:19.059 --> 00:49:22.119
takes it longer to cook. Ours cooks in way, way

00:49:22.119 --> 00:49:24.360
less time. Well, what's that worth? You know,

00:49:24.400 --> 00:49:28.619
in the kitchen, cooking time is valuable. I mean,

00:49:28.639 --> 00:49:31.039
you've got labor, you've got energy, you've got

00:49:31.039 --> 00:49:36.280
infrastructure tie -up time. When you start taking

00:49:36.280 --> 00:49:44.159
all of those kinds of related things around the

00:49:44.159 --> 00:49:49.000
actual meal prep procedure, from human sickness

00:49:49.000 --> 00:49:53.780
to externalized to satiation to wasted product

00:49:53.780 --> 00:50:00.280
to cooking time, all of those things, they actually

00:50:00.280 --> 00:50:04.880
add up. We tell people, even though our price

00:50:04.880 --> 00:50:07.280
tag is higher, we actually have the cheapest

00:50:07.280 --> 00:50:10.820
food in the world because the price that's on

00:50:10.820 --> 00:50:13.579
the tag is everything. There's no hidden cost.

00:50:13.719 --> 00:50:16.519
There's nothing out here lurking. There's no

00:50:16.519 --> 00:50:20.579
bogeyman going to get you from that price. It's

00:50:20.579 --> 00:50:23.400
the real price, and it's the honest price. And

00:50:23.400 --> 00:50:29.519
so that's my answer. I don't think we could possibly

00:50:29.519 --> 00:50:33.889
sell eggs. just straight up price competitive

00:50:33.889 --> 00:50:40.809
to um you know to the to the factory eggs uh

00:50:40.809 --> 00:50:43.389
but there's no there's no comparison any eggs

00:50:43.389 --> 00:50:45.969
either yeah ours actually ours actually taste

00:50:45.969 --> 00:50:49.389
good and give you a vibrant life well exactly

00:50:49.389 --> 00:50:50.750
i think that's it i mean there's obviously a

00:50:50.750 --> 00:50:53.469
huge nutritional advantage i think one of the

00:50:53.469 --> 00:50:56.170
areas where jamie was highlighting they could

00:50:56.170 --> 00:50:58.050
save money was exactly what you said they they

00:50:58.050 --> 00:51:01.050
took these These, you know, people that worked

00:51:01.050 --> 00:51:02.829
in the kitchens and rather than just shoving

00:51:02.829 --> 00:51:05.389
things in an oven, they taught them how to cook.

00:51:05.409 --> 00:51:07.250
They used fresh vegetables. They made chicken

00:51:07.250 --> 00:51:09.590
nuggets from, you know, chicken breasts. I don't

00:51:09.590 --> 00:51:13.369
know if they were the best raised chicken, but

00:51:13.369 --> 00:51:15.010
I mean, again, that's where you would add that.

00:51:15.309 --> 00:51:17.309
extra layer of the budget to really make sure

00:51:17.309 --> 00:51:20.269
you maximize nutrition in children's health but

00:51:20.269 --> 00:51:22.590
you imagine the knock -on effect of the financial

00:51:22.590 --> 00:51:25.789
side of not having sick americans anymore you

00:51:25.789 --> 00:51:28.530
would save money hand over fist aside from the

00:51:28.530 --> 00:51:33.090
ethical issue oh absolutely and and in that uh

00:51:33.090 --> 00:51:37.429
in that space i think it's I think it's important

00:51:37.429 --> 00:51:40.489
to realize that right now, today, as you and

00:51:40.489 --> 00:51:43.769
I talk, I'm sure you've seen the movie, the documentary,

00:51:43.969 --> 00:51:49.429
Food, Inc. And that one, for example, the family

00:51:49.429 --> 00:51:52.750
that went to Burger King and got that meal for

00:51:52.750 --> 00:51:56.170
their son and said they couldn't afford vegetables

00:51:56.170 --> 00:52:02.829
at the supermarket, that fast food meal, you

00:52:02.829 --> 00:52:05.469
know, with the big... soda and the french fries

00:52:05.469 --> 00:52:09.190
and the burger and all that fast food meal cost

00:52:09.190 --> 00:52:15.349
more than two whole pounds of our grass finished

00:52:15.349 --> 00:52:19.429
ground beef right now and there's more nutrition

00:52:19.429 --> 00:52:22.849
in half a pound of our ground beef than that

00:52:22.849 --> 00:52:27.030
whole fast food meal and so that's the kind of

00:52:27.030 --> 00:52:30.250
thing i think as as jamie oliver poked around

00:52:30.250 --> 00:52:40.139
these edges You can change your whole providence

00:52:40.139 --> 00:52:44.739
and your whole economic situation if you change

00:52:44.739 --> 00:52:47.659
your providence. One of the things that we know

00:52:47.659 --> 00:52:52.320
right now, for example, is that our pasture GMO

00:52:52.320 --> 00:52:58.860
-free world -class chicken, if you get a whole

00:52:58.860 --> 00:53:03.030
chicken, it's cheaper. than a Tyson breast down

00:53:03.030 --> 00:53:07.010
at Walmart. Per pound. It's cheaper per pound

00:53:07.010 --> 00:53:11.530
than a Tyson breast at Walmart. And so if you

00:53:11.530 --> 00:53:14.130
get a whole chicken from us, you know, you're

00:53:14.130 --> 00:53:17.590
going to have three or four meals, eat the whole

00:53:17.590 --> 00:53:19.090
thing. Leftovers, you're going to have broth,

00:53:19.170 --> 00:53:21.610
you're going to have, you know, all this stuff.

00:53:22.429 --> 00:53:25.530
You get a boneless, skinless breast down at Walmart

00:53:25.530 --> 00:53:34.059
from Tyson, It might be convenient, but you're

00:53:34.059 --> 00:53:36.699
not actually going to have nutrition. You're

00:53:36.699 --> 00:53:40.980
not going to actually have value, full value

00:53:40.980 --> 00:53:45.679
from that bone and skinless breast. So whenever

00:53:45.679 --> 00:53:48.559
somebody starts talking about price, I start

00:53:48.559 --> 00:53:50.920
looking at, well, what are you currently spending

00:53:50.920 --> 00:53:55.260
your money on? And pretty quickly, 90 % of the

00:53:55.260 --> 00:54:02.639
people, you can find some very glaring... luxuries,

00:54:02.639 --> 00:54:06.820
unnecessary luxuries that are eating up the food

00:54:06.820 --> 00:54:10.480
budget that could much more strategically be

00:54:10.480 --> 00:54:16.659
spent on, you know, on unprocessed whole foods

00:54:16.659 --> 00:54:20.900
and eating nose to tail. Absolutely. Well, it

00:54:20.900 --> 00:54:23.360
seems like the word false economy applies to

00:54:23.360 --> 00:54:26.519
so many areas. It applies to my peers in the

00:54:26.519 --> 00:54:28.940
tactical professions that are being worked into

00:54:28.940 --> 00:54:31.420
the ground and they're saving money, quote unquote,

00:54:31.699 --> 00:54:33.980
on their staffing, but then they're paying way

00:54:33.980 --> 00:54:36.920
more when they retire out or get hurt or all

00:54:36.920 --> 00:54:40.679
these other expenses on the back end. But another

00:54:40.679 --> 00:54:42.679
false economy, which I really want to explore

00:54:42.679 --> 00:54:47.880
with you, is the effect of factory farming. Now,

00:54:47.900 --> 00:54:50.320
obviously, any decent human being, just the ethical

00:54:50.320 --> 00:54:52.679
side would be enough to make you not want to

00:54:52.679 --> 00:54:56.099
see that anywhere on planet Earth. But aside

00:54:56.099 --> 00:54:58.539
from that, growing up in England, we had BSE.

00:54:58.719 --> 00:55:01.480
We discovered that they were feeding ground -up

00:55:01.480 --> 00:55:05.420
cows to cows in the farms. Tell me about the

00:55:05.420 --> 00:55:09.050
farming practices and the... the breeding ground

00:55:09.050 --> 00:55:11.010
that they create, not only for disease in the

00:55:11.010 --> 00:55:13.489
animals themselves, but also, you know, maybe

00:55:13.489 --> 00:55:16.030
a precursor to some of these pandemics that we've

00:55:16.030 --> 00:55:19.969
seen before. Well, certainly, you know, it doesn't

00:55:19.969 --> 00:55:23.510
take a rocket scientist to connect the dots that

00:55:23.510 --> 00:55:26.449
we are what we eat, we are, and we are what we

00:55:26.449 --> 00:55:30.190
eat, eats. And so if our, if our animals are

00:55:30.190 --> 00:55:33.449
raised in confinement and fecal, in fecal particulate,

00:55:33.449 --> 00:55:35.869
in other words, the, the air is dusty with their

00:55:35.869 --> 00:55:38.849
manure, their, their, They live in their own

00:55:38.849 --> 00:55:41.849
manure at all times and breathe it in as well.

00:55:41.949 --> 00:55:44.289
So it would be like you living in your toilet.

00:55:45.090 --> 00:55:48.289
And they eat there. They sleep there. They do

00:55:48.289 --> 00:55:52.190
everything there. And they're sedentary. They're

00:55:52.190 --> 00:55:54.869
confined. They can't exercise. They don't get

00:55:54.869 --> 00:56:00.369
sunshine. And they don't get fresh air. They

00:56:00.369 --> 00:56:02.710
don't get exercise. And their diet is completely

00:56:02.710 --> 00:56:07.889
calorie -driven for fast growth. um as opposed

00:56:07.889 --> 00:56:10.530
to completely well -rounded nutrients so they

00:56:10.530 --> 00:56:19.190
grow extra fast if you create that kind of of

00:56:19.190 --> 00:56:27.110
habitat it is it is intuitive even if it's not

00:56:27.110 --> 00:56:29.309
empirically proven right now but it certainly

00:56:29.309 --> 00:56:32.670
is intuitive that if that's what we're eating

00:56:32.670 --> 00:56:34.550
that's what we're going to look like we're going

00:56:34.550 --> 00:56:41.579
to look like what we eat. And so if the animals

00:56:41.579 --> 00:56:50.179
are high -stressed, calorie -driven, fat -oriented,

00:56:50.420 --> 00:56:57.760
non -exercise, then we're going to start looking

00:56:57.760 --> 00:57:02.559
that same way. In other words, flabby pork makes

00:57:02.559 --> 00:57:13.219
flabby people. So what's not surprising is that

00:57:13.219 --> 00:57:17.260
people begin to look like what they eat, and

00:57:17.260 --> 00:57:21.579
that includes the simplicity on our farms. We

00:57:21.579 --> 00:57:24.460
don't have diversified farms. We have extremely

00:57:24.460 --> 00:57:27.320
simplistic ones, and nature is not simplistic.

00:57:27.500 --> 00:57:29.739
Nature is highly complex. It's very relational,

00:57:29.980 --> 00:57:34.340
and it's interrelational, synergistic, and symbiotic.

00:57:34.670 --> 00:57:37.489
And our farms are essentially single species,

00:57:37.769 --> 00:57:40.710
single plant, single animal. We don't even mix

00:57:40.710 --> 00:57:45.429
plants and animals. And so that simplicity, and

00:57:45.429 --> 00:57:48.070
in fact, we even dump chemical fertilizer on

00:57:48.070 --> 00:57:52.889
the soil as opposed to leveraging the complexity

00:57:52.889 --> 00:58:00.610
of the actinomycetes, mycelium, all the soil

00:58:00.610 --> 00:58:04.619
microbial life that has more beings. in a double

00:58:04.619 --> 00:58:07.380
handful than there are people on the face of

00:58:07.380 --> 00:58:09.500
the earth. That's how many beings are in a handful

00:58:09.500 --> 00:58:12.980
of healthy soil. So instead of leveraging that,

00:58:13.039 --> 00:58:15.500
we simplistically throw on chemical nitrogen,

00:58:15.739 --> 00:58:18.380
potassium, and phosphorus, and then we wonder

00:58:18.380 --> 00:58:22.219
why our plants have fungus and disease and need

00:58:22.219 --> 00:58:28.059
prop -ups of fumigants and chemicals and everything

00:58:28.059 --> 00:58:32.519
else. And so as we develop these crutches, as

00:58:32.519 --> 00:58:36.329
we develop these, these pharmaceutical and chemical

00:58:36.329 --> 00:58:39.349
crutches to take our plants and animals forward

00:58:39.349 --> 00:58:45.570
in a time of simplistic soil and animal feeding,

00:58:45.949 --> 00:58:54.050
it's natural that we're going to start, what's

00:58:54.050 --> 00:58:57.849
the word, crutching? We're going to start seeing

00:58:57.849 --> 00:58:59.849
the same thing in our population. In fact, in

00:58:59.849 --> 00:59:02.949
1950, when he wrote an agricultural testament,

00:59:03.559 --> 00:59:05.960
Sir Albert Howard, who was kind of the godfather

00:59:05.960 --> 00:59:09.039
of modern sustainable agriculture, he developed

00:59:09.039 --> 00:59:12.280
the scientific formula for aerobic composting.

00:59:12.519 --> 00:59:19.179
In his absolute, you know, iconic book, An Agricultural

00:59:19.179 --> 00:59:24.579
Testament, 1950, or 50, no, I'm sorry, I'm a

00:59:24.579 --> 00:59:27.420
decade off. It came out about 1943, so right

00:59:27.420 --> 00:59:31.400
in the middle of World War II. He had this statement,

00:59:31.440 --> 00:59:36.179
he said, He said it is the temptation of every

00:59:36.179 --> 00:59:39.900
society to turn what nature has spent centuries

00:59:39.900 --> 00:59:43.800
building into cash. The other thing he said was

00:59:43.800 --> 00:59:47.039
that when we use artificial, that's what he called

00:59:47.039 --> 00:59:49.619
chemical fertilizers, artificial manures, he

00:59:49.619 --> 00:59:52.280
called them artificial manures, artificial manures

00:59:52.280 --> 00:59:56.559
on the soil, it makes artificial soil, which

00:59:56.559 --> 00:59:58.539
grows artificial plants, which grows artificial

00:59:58.539 --> 01:00:03.179
people who can only be kept alive. with artificials

01:00:03.179 --> 01:00:06.760
you nailed it if that wasn't if that wasn't prophetically

01:00:06.760 --> 01:00:10.360
prescient i don't know what is yeah no i mean

01:00:10.360 --> 01:00:12.039
that was absolutely spot on and it's terrifying

01:00:12.039 --> 01:00:14.360
and that that's that's the behind the curtain

01:00:14.360 --> 01:00:18.199
um you know vision that i've been able to get

01:00:18.199 --> 01:00:20.820
in the last 15 years and it's a tragic it's a

01:00:20.820 --> 01:00:23.980
tragic realization but you know i i don't want

01:00:23.980 --> 01:00:27.130
to demonize the medical industry because they

01:00:27.130 --> 01:00:30.429
do so many good things. But using pharmaceuticals

01:00:30.429 --> 01:00:32.849
for chronic disease management is one of the

01:00:32.849 --> 01:00:35.590
biggest tragedies in human health, where it should

01:00:35.590 --> 01:00:38.829
be fitness and nutrition reversing and mitigating

01:00:38.829 --> 01:00:45.289
disease. Yes, absolutely. And yeah, listen, you

01:00:45.289 --> 01:00:48.110
know, I'm very thankful that we have some pretty

01:00:48.110 --> 01:00:52.210
sophisticated medical options in our arsenal

01:00:52.210 --> 01:00:55.969
today. Absolutely. I'm glad that we have The

01:00:55.969 --> 01:00:59.690
problem is, though, that we then created a factory

01:00:59.690 --> 01:01:02.090
farming system that required antibiotics for

01:01:02.090 --> 01:01:03.730
the animals to stay alive. A lot of people don't

01:01:03.730 --> 01:01:06.210
realize that the lion's share of antibiotics

01:01:06.210 --> 01:01:08.389
in the United States actually don't go through

01:01:08.389 --> 01:01:10.789
people. They go through animals, and we eat them

01:01:10.789 --> 01:01:14.590
for dinner. And so we did a messaging campaign

01:01:14.590 --> 01:01:24.449
one time. Who's been drugging your dinner? We

01:01:24.449 --> 01:01:26.510
take this something that's really a blessing,

01:01:26.829 --> 01:01:29.389
that's really a blessing, and we overuse it and

01:01:29.389 --> 01:01:33.949
abuse it and turn it into a liability with our

01:01:33.949 --> 01:01:38.369
own greed and short -sighted view. And so here

01:01:38.369 --> 01:01:44.409
we are. So what we need to be doing is collectively

01:01:44.409 --> 01:01:51.670
working on and dedicating ourselves to a higher

01:01:51.670 --> 01:01:57.989
immunological function. and have the hospitals

01:01:57.989 --> 01:02:01.690
there when we need them. But if they could be

01:02:01.690 --> 01:02:07.329
limited to accidents and injury, things like

01:02:07.329 --> 01:02:14.269
that, it would fundamentally change our economy

01:02:14.269 --> 01:02:17.889
and our overall cultural wellness. Yeah, absolutely.

01:02:18.150 --> 01:02:20.610
Well, going back to the cause as well, just for

01:02:20.610 --> 01:02:23.849
a moment. When you look back, you know, there's

01:02:23.849 --> 01:02:27.150
some certain diseases that have made a huge impact

01:02:27.150 --> 01:02:29.969
in history. There's a black death. There's, you

01:02:29.969 --> 01:02:32.449
know, cholera, both of which they realized were

01:02:32.449 --> 01:02:36.199
actually, you know. human waste into you know

01:02:36.199 --> 01:02:38.900
a water supply or even just just in the streets

01:02:38.900 --> 01:02:41.780
like uh old age london and then you look at the

01:02:41.780 --> 01:02:44.260
spanish flu which very coincidentally happened

01:02:44.260 --> 01:02:47.639
right after world war one where you know thousands

01:02:47.639 --> 01:02:50.539
of men lay dying and rotting in trenches in in

01:02:50.539 --> 01:02:54.320
europe um and then now we look at excuse me at

01:02:54.320 --> 01:02:57.280
um the uh covid and we're told about the bats

01:02:57.280 --> 01:03:00.260
in the wet markets so again people kind of you

01:03:00.260 --> 01:03:03.300
know wringing their hands and and crying to the

01:03:03.300 --> 01:03:06.860
heavens like why why is this happening what element

01:03:06.860 --> 01:03:10.800
of of farming practices and raising animals do

01:03:10.800 --> 01:03:13.880
you think is contributing to some of these horrendous

01:03:13.880 --> 01:03:15.920
viruses that we're seeing that are then killing

01:03:15.920 --> 01:03:20.619
a lot of our people well whenever you whenever

01:03:20.619 --> 01:03:25.519
you concentrate an inordinate number of animals

01:03:25.519 --> 01:03:29.719
in a unsanitary place so we've got we've got

01:03:29.719 --> 01:03:33.900
concentration we've got So we've got density,

01:03:34.420 --> 01:03:41.820
we've got mass, scale, size, and we have horrendous

01:03:41.820 --> 01:03:49.099
unsanitary conditions. And in many cases, approximate,

01:03:49.519 --> 01:03:54.179
take those three things, concentration, scale,

01:03:54.340 --> 01:03:57.940
and lack of hygiene, and then mix animals that

01:03:57.940 --> 01:04:01.679
would never otherwise even be close to each other.

01:04:02.110 --> 01:04:05.250
otherwise, and certainly not at those kinds of

01:04:05.250 --> 01:04:08.909
concentrations and unsanitary conditions. When

01:04:08.909 --> 01:04:17.829
you start pushing that envelope, it's naturally

01:04:17.829 --> 01:04:22.230
going to push you into strange mutations. It's

01:04:22.230 --> 01:04:25.030
going to push you into new pathogenicities and

01:04:25.030 --> 01:04:29.510
toxicities that humankind has not seen before.

01:04:31.659 --> 01:04:35.300
The ability of humans today with cheap energy,

01:04:35.380 --> 01:04:38.619
transportation, and distribution capabilities

01:04:38.619 --> 01:04:44.559
with trains and trucks and all that, our newfound

01:04:44.559 --> 01:04:51.420
ability to concentrate at scale is unprecedented.

01:04:52.079 --> 01:04:58.019
Just even a century and a half ago, when it was

01:04:58.019 --> 01:05:02.179
still all draft power, oxen, horses, mules, You

01:05:02.179 --> 01:05:07.980
simply could not concentrate at scale what we

01:05:07.980 --> 01:05:10.119
were able to do today because you couldn't move

01:05:10.119 --> 01:05:13.340
enough feedstock in, you couldn't move the manure

01:05:13.340 --> 01:05:21.780
out, and so you were limited logistically with

01:05:21.780 --> 01:05:25.860
the ability to transport material. Today, we

01:05:25.860 --> 01:05:29.420
don't have that limitation. So all around the

01:05:29.420 --> 01:05:40.079
world... We can overrun the ecological nest,

01:05:40.260 --> 01:05:46.059
if you will, a proper hygienic ecological nest.

01:05:46.159 --> 01:05:50.920
We can overrun that willy -nilly. And, in fact,

01:05:51.039 --> 01:05:56.179
we do. And when we do that, we create all sorts

01:05:56.179 --> 01:05:58.760
of problems. I mean, goodness, North Carolina

01:05:58.760 --> 01:06:01.829
here in the U .S. North Carolina, if it weren't

01:06:01.829 --> 01:06:06.070
for a hurricane every two years to come in and

01:06:06.070 --> 01:06:09.590
flush all the pig lagoons in North Carolina,

01:06:09.710 --> 01:06:13.670
North Carolina today would be covered up in pig

01:06:13.670 --> 01:06:19.170
manure. But I call it the biannual flush. And

01:06:19.170 --> 01:06:21.929
here comes the big hurricane, dumps 15 inches

01:06:21.929 --> 01:06:25.090
of rain, and you get all this flooding and flushing,

01:06:25.190 --> 01:06:28.679
and everything gets... You know, flushed out

01:06:28.679 --> 01:06:31.420
to sea, you have some massive fish kills. That's

01:06:31.420 --> 01:06:34.480
part of the collateral damage, and we're good

01:06:34.480 --> 01:06:39.940
to go for another cycle. And so this is what

01:06:39.940 --> 01:06:47.179
happens with today's ability to concentrate like

01:06:47.179 --> 01:06:50.300
we've never been able to do before. Have humans

01:06:50.300 --> 01:06:53.300
damaged our environment in the past? Absolutely.

01:06:53.519 --> 01:06:56.519
Throughout history, we've damaged our past. But

01:06:56.519 --> 01:07:02.659
we've been limited by simple logistics and transportation.

01:07:03.440 --> 01:07:07.539
You can't destroy but so much acreage when you're

01:07:07.539 --> 01:07:11.960
walking with a sharp stick behind an ox. A person

01:07:11.960 --> 01:07:14.480
can only touch so much land. But if you're driving

01:07:14.480 --> 01:07:19.039
a 600 -horsepower, eight -wheel drive articulated

01:07:19.039 --> 01:07:24.599
tractor pulling up a 15 -bottom plow, you can...

01:07:24.969 --> 01:07:27.670
You can touch a lot of land in a hurry, and that's

01:07:27.670 --> 01:07:33.530
the difference. The scale of our ability to exercise

01:07:33.530 --> 01:07:41.130
our dominance and control on our womb, on the

01:07:41.130 --> 01:07:45.989
nest, is simply unprecedented today, and that's

01:07:45.989 --> 01:07:49.449
one reason why we're seeing a proliferation of

01:07:49.449 --> 01:07:54.409
this lexicon. I want to get to your new book.

01:07:54.489 --> 01:07:55.929
I've just got one more area because you kind

01:07:55.929 --> 01:07:58.570
of really opened that door for a second. We always

01:07:58.570 --> 01:08:00.789
hear about the rainforest being destroyed and

01:08:00.789 --> 01:08:04.050
that being related to raising cattle. What's

01:08:04.050 --> 01:08:08.389
the truth behind that? And again, how can local

01:08:08.389 --> 01:08:11.489
farming even combat the environmental element?

01:08:14.489 --> 01:08:21.069
Well, yes, a lot of it is being destroyed. I'll

01:08:21.069 --> 01:08:25.970
just say, The problem is in domestic livestock,

01:08:26.210 --> 01:08:31.829
and certainly cattle are the king of that, in

01:08:31.829 --> 01:08:37.090
domestic livestock worldwide, we are not mimicking

01:08:37.090 --> 01:08:44.210
the natural choreography of herbivorous herds

01:08:44.210 --> 01:08:47.329
throughout the planet. And when you study the

01:08:47.329 --> 01:08:50.789
way these large herds have worked in the past,

01:08:51.199 --> 01:08:53.640
and, by the way, develop the deepest soils on

01:08:53.640 --> 01:08:57.899
the planet, they have moved from place to place.

01:08:58.020 --> 01:09:01.479
They move regarding the rainy season. Predators

01:09:01.479 --> 01:09:04.640
push them. Flies push them. Their own bellies

01:09:04.640 --> 01:09:07.699
push them to new ground. And so there's a constant

01:09:07.699 --> 01:09:13.460
undulation movement pattern across the prairies,

01:09:13.479 --> 01:09:18.600
across the Serengeti, across the tundra. That's

01:09:18.600 --> 01:09:21.840
the way nature moves. But with domestic livestock,

01:09:22.340 --> 01:09:25.840
we've moved into a sedentary situation where

01:09:25.840 --> 01:09:31.060
we fence and we leave the animals in one place,

01:09:31.220 --> 01:09:34.279
which then means they overgraze. There's not

01:09:34.279 --> 01:09:38.600
a forage rest period, which means the forage

01:09:38.600 --> 01:09:44.239
isn't ever able to get into its fast kind of

01:09:44.239 --> 01:09:47.619
juvenile growth curve, which means it's stunted.

01:09:50.760 --> 01:09:53.600
And then we don't get the solar conversion into

01:09:53.600 --> 01:09:57.640
biomass that can decompose. So on our farm, we

01:09:57.640 --> 01:10:00.560
move the cows every day to a new paddock, which

01:10:00.560 --> 01:10:03.800
means that, you know, each paddock can rest before

01:10:03.800 --> 01:10:06.180
they come back. Now the cows might be on a given

01:10:06.180 --> 01:10:09.460
paddock, oh, you know, four to six times in a

01:10:09.460 --> 01:10:13.279
season, but those are only four to six days in

01:10:13.279 --> 01:10:16.199
a given spot throughout the season. And so we

01:10:16.199 --> 01:10:19.619
use high -tech electric fencing. to be able to

01:10:19.619 --> 01:10:21.760
give us a steering wheel, a brake, and an accelerator

01:10:21.760 --> 01:10:26.159
on that four -legged pruning, that four -legged

01:10:26.159 --> 01:10:29.119
pruner, to be able to move across the landscape

01:10:29.119 --> 01:10:33.279
with the animals at the same precision level

01:10:33.279 --> 01:10:36.979
as a zero -turn mower on a golf course. That's

01:10:36.979 --> 01:10:40.300
never been done. That's never been possible in

01:10:40.300 --> 01:10:45.159
human history. So what this does is allow us

01:10:45.159 --> 01:10:49.220
to mimic. So this is biomimicry. of the movement

01:10:49.220 --> 01:10:52.159
of the animals across the landscape. And all

01:10:52.159 --> 01:10:54.859
we're trying to do is, on a domestic scale, mimic

01:10:54.859 --> 01:10:59.340
what we see nature doing on a wild scale. And

01:10:59.340 --> 01:11:03.579
if everyone did that, the production increase

01:11:03.579 --> 01:11:08.680
would be unbelievable. In Augusta County, where

01:11:08.680 --> 01:11:11.489
we live... The average cow days per acre, a cow

01:11:11.489 --> 01:11:13.710
day is what one cow will eat in a day. So if

01:11:13.710 --> 01:11:15.430
we took all the food that you eat today and put

01:11:15.430 --> 01:11:17.489
it on your plate, that would be one person day

01:11:17.489 --> 01:11:23.090
of food. So what one cow will eat in a day is

01:11:23.090 --> 01:11:25.390
one cow day. So in Augusta County, where we live,

01:11:25.550 --> 01:11:29.029
the average is 80 cow days per acre. So an acre

01:11:29.029 --> 01:11:32.609
will support 80 cows for one day a year or one

01:11:32.609 --> 01:11:37.670
cow for 80 days a year. The average is 80, and

01:11:37.670 --> 01:11:48.069
we average. So we don't have a resource problem.

01:11:48.270 --> 01:11:50.850
We don't have a cow problem. We don't have a

01:11:50.850 --> 01:11:53.310
population problem. We don't have a food problem.

01:11:53.430 --> 01:11:57.729
What we have is a management problem. And if

01:11:57.729 --> 01:12:00.449
we could get the management right, then everything

01:12:00.449 --> 01:12:06.100
else would fall into place. fooding that they

01:12:06.100 --> 01:12:07.899
featured you or if it was forks over knives but

01:12:07.899 --> 01:12:09.840
you know where they're showing that and and you

01:12:09.840 --> 01:12:12.399
are you know your cows are followed by the pigs

01:12:12.399 --> 01:12:14.060
and the pigs are followed by the chicken and

01:12:14.060 --> 01:12:16.859
even the the length of the grass that your cows

01:12:16.859 --> 01:12:19.720
are eating this very long mature grass versus

01:12:19.720 --> 01:12:22.039
the very short one that you normally see in pastures

01:12:22.039 --> 01:12:24.260
you could just i mean it just made perfect sense

01:12:24.260 --> 01:12:26.819
like you're sending several species through each

01:12:26.819 --> 01:12:30.430
one is laying there their compost down, and so

01:12:30.430 --> 01:12:32.810
therefore nourishing the actual land. And when

01:12:32.810 --> 01:12:34.970
they keep going back, it builds and builds and

01:12:34.970 --> 01:12:37.609
builds. So just from a complete non -farming

01:12:37.609 --> 01:12:39.829
common sense point of view, it makes perfect

01:12:39.829 --> 01:12:44.449
sense. Sure. Sure, that's right. But you see,

01:12:44.529 --> 01:12:46.430
you don't feel threatened or have to de -learn

01:12:46.430 --> 01:12:49.869
anything. That's true. Well, that is a great

01:12:49.869 --> 01:12:53.329
segue then to the book. So I think hopefully...

01:12:53.680 --> 01:12:55.300
There will be some lessons learned from this.

01:12:55.319 --> 01:12:57.399
My biggest fear of this whole pandemic is that

01:12:57.399 --> 01:12:59.220
people go back to doing exactly the same thing

01:12:59.220 --> 01:13:01.100
they did before, which would be the real tragedy

01:13:01.100 --> 01:13:04.180
because even the deaths won't be honored by some

01:13:04.180 --> 01:13:08.039
sort of learning. But your new book, Beyond Labels,

01:13:08.060 --> 01:13:10.720
I think is a great opportunity for people to

01:13:10.720 --> 01:13:13.960
understand what's in some of the foods that are

01:13:13.960 --> 01:13:16.020
sitting on the shelves at the moment. So tell

01:13:16.020 --> 01:13:18.319
me about why you wrote that and then how people

01:13:18.319 --> 01:13:23.369
can find it. Sure. Well, so I hooked up with

01:13:23.369 --> 01:13:28.090
this Ph .D. biochemist, Sina McCullough, who

01:13:28.090 --> 01:13:30.789
had her own brush with death. She was actually

01:13:30.789 --> 01:13:34.869
planning her funeral as a 30, whatever, 32 -year

01:13:34.869 --> 01:13:42.930
-old, and had all sorts of debilitating illnesses

01:13:42.930 --> 01:13:48.710
and immunodeficiency. by eating the standard

01:13:48.710 --> 01:13:51.090
American diet. We call that SAD, standard American

01:13:51.090 --> 01:13:56.789
diet. And so she, you know, she had her epiphany

01:13:56.789 --> 01:13:59.649
one day when she said, okay, I've got to, I can't

01:13:59.649 --> 01:14:01.970
blame the doctor. I can't blame the food. I can't

01:14:01.970 --> 01:14:04.909
blame, you know, I've got to do this myself.

01:14:05.829 --> 01:14:09.810
And so she started using her PhD biochemistry

01:14:09.810 --> 01:14:16.180
background to research food. and started to change

01:14:16.180 --> 01:14:19.020
her diet, change her life, and today she's a

01:14:19.020 --> 01:14:23.579
vibrant, whatever, 38, 39 -year -old, I call

01:14:23.579 --> 01:14:27.539
her an energizer, bunny. We did a conference

01:14:27.539 --> 01:14:31.500
together a couple of years ago, met for the first

01:14:31.500 --> 01:14:37.680
time. The two of us were the two speakers. I

01:14:37.680 --> 01:14:40.119
was completely taken and enamored by what she

01:14:40.119 --> 01:14:43.180
said. And she enjoyed what I said, and she just

01:14:43.180 --> 01:14:45.539
came up to me at the end and said, let's do a

01:14:45.539 --> 01:14:49.359
book together. And to my knowledge, a book pairing

01:14:49.359 --> 01:14:55.140
a farmer with a Ph .D. biochemist has never been

01:14:55.140 --> 01:14:58.880
done before. And maintaining our own dialogue,

01:14:59.159 --> 01:15:01.760
so the book, although we've co -authored it,

01:15:01.840 --> 01:15:05.420
we've maintained our separate... personas throughout

01:15:05.420 --> 01:15:08.659
the book, so it reads like a play, like a dialogue,

01:15:08.760 --> 01:15:10.539
like you're sitting in an audience and you're

01:15:10.539 --> 01:15:14.220
watching two people just talk back and forth.

01:15:14.319 --> 01:15:17.420
In fact, numerous people who have now reviewed

01:15:17.420 --> 01:15:20.920
it and read it thought that we actually sat down

01:15:20.920 --> 01:15:23.960
and had a conversation and then transcribed it

01:15:23.960 --> 01:15:26.020
for the book. That's not the way we wrote it.

01:15:26.079 --> 01:15:28.779
We actually did a lot of emails back and forth,

01:15:28.880 --> 01:15:32.060
and as we kind of got into the rhythm, we were

01:15:32.060 --> 01:15:35.109
able to to play on each other. We learned more

01:15:35.109 --> 01:15:37.670
about each other, and we're able to play on it.

01:15:37.710 --> 01:15:39.630
So the whole idea of the book is a continuum

01:15:39.630 --> 01:15:43.029
to take you from wherever you are. Right now,

01:15:43.029 --> 01:15:45.369
if you're eating most of your food from the gas

01:15:45.369 --> 01:15:48.750
station and you want to go to a better place,

01:15:49.270 --> 01:15:53.449
this does not talk down, judge, or speak with

01:15:53.449 --> 01:15:56.430
prejudice against what you're doing. It simply

01:15:56.430 --> 01:16:00.970
is to take you by the hand, coach you, and challenge,

01:16:01.189 --> 01:16:04.329
yes. and encourage you to move to another level.

01:16:04.449 --> 01:16:07.989
So the chapters are all titled Practical Bites.

01:16:08.069 --> 01:16:10.670
There's, I don't know what, 60 Practical Bites,

01:16:10.710 --> 01:16:13.789
and they're all written in things that, you know,

01:16:13.789 --> 01:16:16.010
something that you can do today, and you just

01:16:16.010 --> 01:16:21.510
add these at your pace. If it takes two months,

01:16:21.569 --> 01:16:23.829
fine. If it takes three years, fine. Ten years,

01:16:24.010 --> 01:16:26.270
fine. That's fine. And you may never get to the

01:16:26.270 --> 01:16:28.609
end. I mean, Sina and I both realize, neither

01:16:28.609 --> 01:16:32.739
of us. actually does all of the whatever, the

01:16:32.739 --> 01:16:36.039
paradise things that we get to right at the end

01:16:36.039 --> 01:16:40.159
of the book. But we went ahead and put in kind

01:16:40.159 --> 01:16:46.300
of our paradise thinking just so that all of

01:16:46.300 --> 01:16:48.840
us, including us, could be pushed and encouraged

01:16:48.840 --> 01:16:55.340
to move to a better place in our lives. And so

01:16:55.340 --> 01:17:00.720
the book is full of... how to build immune system,

01:17:00.979 --> 01:17:04.460
how to save time in the kitchen, how to source,

01:17:04.779 --> 01:17:08.439
how to find, how to cut through the whole thing

01:17:08.439 --> 01:17:11.680
beyond labels. If you're dependent on labels

01:17:11.680 --> 01:17:14.399
for food buying, you're probably pretty disconnected

01:17:14.399 --> 01:17:17.279
from your food. And so we punch through some

01:17:17.279 --> 01:17:20.260
of the clever speak and the way the FDA allows

01:17:20.260 --> 01:17:22.939
things to be labeled, like generally accepted

01:17:22.939 --> 01:17:26.840
as safe, G -R -A -S. That's a big sleeping giant

01:17:26.840 --> 01:17:33.819
in the labeling. And we pull that aside and lead

01:17:33.819 --> 01:17:40.979
you non -prejudicially through a continuum to

01:17:40.979 --> 01:17:47.659
a place of understanding so you can make better

01:17:47.659 --> 01:17:50.640
decisions on your own food providence. That's

01:17:50.640 --> 01:17:52.100
what we're trying to do. We're trying to get

01:17:52.100 --> 01:17:56.239
you to a better place, a better decision -making

01:17:56.239 --> 01:17:59.210
place. so that you can feel confident and comfortable

01:17:59.210 --> 01:18:01.890
with your own decisions and you're not just dependent

01:18:01.890 --> 01:18:06.729
on phraseology and clever labels that almost

01:18:06.729 --> 01:18:12.189
never speak honestly about what's actually contained.

01:18:13.170 --> 01:18:15.710
Yeah, I think that's so important. And you hit

01:18:15.710 --> 01:18:18.909
on a very good point about just starting today.

01:18:19.189 --> 01:18:22.189
I think people see some people at the moment

01:18:22.189 --> 01:18:24.449
wearing a mask in their own car and people kind

01:18:24.449 --> 01:18:27.399
of like, ridicule them but people got to understand

01:18:27.399 --> 01:18:29.399
the environment they're in if you get your information

01:18:29.399 --> 01:18:32.720
for example from fox news and cnn you're not

01:18:32.720 --> 01:18:33.979
you're going to have a very skew perspective

01:18:33.979 --> 01:18:38.039
i was raised with now realizing all the wrong

01:18:38.039 --> 01:18:40.560
nutritional advice all the wrong you know weight

01:18:40.560 --> 01:18:42.420
training advice too you know everything was around

01:18:42.420 --> 01:18:44.420
the bodybuilding machines and i became a fireman

01:18:44.420 --> 01:18:47.460
that didn't serve me well either but forgiving

01:18:47.460 --> 01:18:50.199
yourself where you are today saying, all right,

01:18:50.199 --> 01:18:52.699
you got me, you know, advertising people or,

01:18:52.739 --> 01:18:54.619
you know, whatever, whatever industry kind of

01:18:54.619 --> 01:18:57.779
led you that way. But today is when you start

01:18:57.779 --> 01:19:00.239
educating and the more education that you have,

01:19:00.359 --> 01:19:02.460
the more power you're going to realize you have

01:19:02.460 --> 01:19:04.680
over your own health, over, you know, everything

01:19:04.680 --> 01:19:06.979
around you. And then if that happens in all the

01:19:06.979 --> 01:19:09.060
households down the street and all the towns

01:19:09.060 --> 01:19:12.199
in the county and then exponentially to the country,

01:19:12.380 --> 01:19:14.899
we're literally going to change the way, you

01:19:14.899 --> 01:19:17.779
know, our country's health looks within 10 years.

01:19:18.760 --> 01:19:23.359
Yes, yes. And in true kind of libertarian fashion,

01:19:23.779 --> 01:19:27.479
this book does not ask for additional government

01:19:27.479 --> 01:19:30.220
oversight. It doesn't ask for subsidies. It doesn't

01:19:30.220 --> 01:19:32.979
ask for agencies, tax incentives, or anything

01:19:32.979 --> 01:19:37.460
else. It's all about us individually. Here's

01:19:37.460 --> 01:19:42.180
what we can do right now, today, and walk steadily

01:19:42.180 --> 01:19:48.869
and make progress into a different... health

01:19:48.869 --> 01:19:51.689
future for ourselves. That's what we're after.

01:19:51.770 --> 01:19:54.090
We're after a time when you wake up in the morning

01:19:54.090 --> 01:19:57.590
and you're not thinking about health issues because

01:19:57.590 --> 01:20:00.630
you're vibrant, you're full of life, and you

01:20:00.630 --> 01:20:04.289
wake up in the morning ready to get at it and

01:20:04.289 --> 01:20:08.609
you're not dwelling on your own whatever health

01:20:08.609 --> 01:20:11.770
limitations. That's a place of optimum health.

01:20:12.149 --> 01:20:14.109
Absolutely. And I agree with you 100%. I mean,

01:20:14.130 --> 01:20:17.329
the environment should be there for people to

01:20:17.329 --> 01:20:19.670
thrive, but the way we start that, clearly having

01:20:19.670 --> 01:20:23.909
seen the last several decades, whether it's our

01:20:23.909 --> 01:20:27.050
food, whether it's drug policy, whatever it is,

01:20:27.109 --> 01:20:29.350
when you look back and realize that that system's

01:20:29.350 --> 01:20:31.069
failed, then you have to be part of the problem.

01:20:31.250 --> 01:20:32.829
I mean, excuse me, part of the solution, not

01:20:32.829 --> 01:20:35.949
part of the problem. Yes, yes. All right. Well,

01:20:36.010 --> 01:20:37.609
then some closing questions I didn't get to ask

01:20:37.609 --> 01:20:39.670
you last time because I kind of added them later

01:20:39.670 --> 01:20:42.850
on in the podcast. We talked about your book.

01:20:42.890 --> 01:20:44.470
Obviously, you've got several others as well.

01:20:44.529 --> 01:20:45.810
And we're going to get to where they can find

01:20:45.810 --> 01:20:48.109
that in a moment. Are there any books that other

01:20:48.109 --> 01:20:49.970
people have written that you love to recommend?

01:20:50.010 --> 01:20:52.350
It can be related to what we've discussed or

01:20:52.350 --> 01:20:55.050
something completely different. Well, there's

01:20:55.050 --> 01:20:57.829
a new one just out that I'm pushing when I have

01:20:57.829 --> 01:21:01.670
a chance called Sacred Cow. It's just being launched

01:21:01.670 --> 01:21:05.159
literally this week. by Rob Wolf, the founder

01:21:05.159 --> 01:21:08.479
of Paleo, and it's a co -authored book also.

01:21:08.619 --> 01:21:13.640
Diana Rogers, who's a dietician, podcaster of

01:21:13.640 --> 01:21:17.579
the podcast Sustainable Dish, and Sacred Cow,

01:21:17.779 --> 01:21:24.840
and they take on the four basic arguments against

01:21:24.840 --> 01:21:31.890
eating meat, especially beef. And so it's a great

01:21:31.890 --> 01:21:37.329
companion now to, this is the kind of book that

01:21:37.329 --> 01:21:41.649
I use as a companion, and get, you know, hardcore

01:21:41.649 --> 01:21:45.090
information out of, you know, nutrient analysis

01:21:45.090 --> 01:21:50.130
and things to, you know, to help people eat a

01:21:50.130 --> 01:21:55.689
more, well, to help people realize that veganism

01:21:55.689 --> 01:22:01.569
is not the solution to health issues. And we

01:22:01.569 --> 01:22:06.289
have many customers. We have thousands of customers,

01:22:06.449 --> 01:22:11.909
and we deal routinely with folks who went through

01:22:11.909 --> 01:22:15.729
the vegan fad and their health suffered and deteriorated.

01:22:15.989 --> 01:22:21.130
And there are a few people, very few, who actually

01:22:21.130 --> 01:22:25.930
thrive on an almost meatless diet, but there

01:22:25.930 --> 01:22:30.079
are not very many. Most people over time. will

01:22:30.079 --> 01:22:34.220
deteriorate in their health. And so Sacred Cow

01:22:34.220 --> 01:22:40.840
has been a great friend here. I'm glad they've

01:22:40.840 --> 01:22:42.180
written it. Yeah, I'm going to have to reach

01:22:42.180 --> 01:22:45.319
out to a mutual friend of Rob's because we've

01:22:45.319 --> 01:22:46.300
been trying to get him on for a little while,

01:22:46.340 --> 01:22:47.779
but if he's got a new book, that's a good time.

01:22:48.060 --> 01:22:50.159
He actually was an EMT back in the day as well.

01:22:51.229 --> 01:22:55.189
Yes, that's right. But it's interesting, just

01:22:55.189 --> 01:22:57.689
touching on the vegan thing for a moment. I went

01:22:57.689 --> 01:23:00.479
plant -based for about six months. I've really

01:23:00.479 --> 01:23:02.239
noticed some great benefits. But then towards

01:23:02.239 --> 01:23:04.479
that, I think what they call the vegan honeymoon,

01:23:04.699 --> 01:23:07.180
you know, did notice a kind of decline in my

01:23:07.180 --> 01:23:10.939
what seemed like energy. So kind of transitioned

01:23:10.939 --> 01:23:14.560
to putting some meat on. But I've had James Wilkes

01:23:14.560 --> 01:23:16.899
that did the Game Changers on. I've had, you

01:23:16.899 --> 01:23:20.359
know, the whole gamut of dietary philosophers,

01:23:20.460 --> 01:23:24.199
if you like. And to me, the middle ground is

01:23:24.199 --> 01:23:27.789
the clean. vegetables and then you know and or

01:23:27.789 --> 01:23:30.869
the clean meat so it's funny with some conversations

01:23:30.869 --> 01:23:33.390
these two sides like you know want to murder

01:23:33.390 --> 01:23:35.689
each other but you know the lesson learned is

01:23:35.689 --> 01:23:37.050
like you said there are people that do thrive

01:23:37.050 --> 01:23:39.510
on veganism and good for them and there are seemingly

01:23:39.510 --> 01:23:41.930
people that thrive on on carnivore diet which

01:23:41.930 --> 01:23:45.569
i find very intriguing as well but the majority

01:23:45.569 --> 01:23:48.609
of us with with clean holistically raised meat

01:23:48.609 --> 01:23:51.880
and clean vegetables and fruit are going to thrive.

01:23:52.159 --> 01:23:54.520
And I think that's the conversation that gets

01:23:54.520 --> 01:23:56.720
missed on the two extremes slinging arrows at

01:23:56.720 --> 01:24:01.220
each other. Yes, I couldn't agree more. And part

01:24:01.220 --> 01:24:04.779
of the Beyond Labels book that Tina and I wrote

01:24:04.779 --> 01:24:09.619
were ways to listen to your body. I mean, we

01:24:09.619 --> 01:24:12.359
don't trust ourselves anymore. We've been so

01:24:12.359 --> 01:24:19.520
expertized in our culture and kind of almost...

01:24:21.140 --> 01:24:25.640
almost, what's the word? You can't fix your refrigerator.

01:24:25.739 --> 01:24:27.279
You can't fix your television. You can't fix

01:24:27.279 --> 01:24:32.619
your car. And we've kind of been unmoored from

01:24:32.619 --> 01:24:36.159
our ability to take care of ourselves. And so

01:24:36.159 --> 01:24:40.359
you ask the expert. And investing is too hard,

01:24:40.399 --> 01:24:45.159
so you have an investment advisor. And so we

01:24:45.159 --> 01:24:49.770
assume that... I can't know anything. What do

01:24:49.770 --> 01:24:52.010
I know? I'm not a doctor. I'm not a nutritionist.

01:24:52.050 --> 01:24:56.250
I'm not a dietician. And the fact is that we

01:24:56.250 --> 01:25:00.029
live in our skin. We live with ourselves. We

01:25:00.029 --> 01:25:02.729
see what our poop looks like. We feel what the

01:25:02.729 --> 01:25:06.170
urine looks like. We actually live in this. And

01:25:06.170 --> 01:25:10.289
so making our daily observations, we know the

01:25:10.289 --> 01:25:13.569
aches and the pains and whether we have a bloated

01:25:13.569 --> 01:25:18.130
feeling or whether our... whether we feel bouncy

01:25:18.130 --> 01:25:23.970
or lethargic. And so experiment. That's the whole

01:25:23.970 --> 01:25:28.210
point is be willing to step out there and experiment

01:25:28.210 --> 01:25:31.869
some. But don't join a cult. Don't jump off on

01:25:31.869 --> 01:25:34.510
a fad. Do some experiments. Keep some mental

01:25:34.510 --> 01:25:40.430
notes. And you'll gradually find you're exactly

01:25:40.430 --> 01:25:45.500
right. Some people thrive on... A meatless thing,

01:25:45.600 --> 01:25:48.500
not very many. And you're right, I'm completely

01:25:48.500 --> 01:25:52.539
intrigued by the whole carnivore thing. As a

01:25:52.539 --> 01:25:56.960
livestock farmer, that really intrigues me. And

01:25:56.960 --> 01:26:00.220
then some people, they get completely off of

01:26:00.220 --> 01:26:04.039
grains. But then again, you go to a place that

01:26:04.039 --> 01:26:07.260
does old heritage Egyptian -type grains and heavy

01:26:07.260 --> 01:26:10.279
breads in those areas, and it's a whole different...

01:26:10.539 --> 01:26:12.840
a whole different context and a different situation

01:26:12.840 --> 01:26:16.539
than, for example, American short -stemmed grains.

01:26:17.020 --> 01:26:20.920
That's another discussion. But anyway, listen

01:26:20.920 --> 01:26:23.680
to yourself, wherever you are, listen to yourself,

01:26:23.979 --> 01:26:26.979
and you'll be surprised what you might learn.

01:26:27.260 --> 01:26:29.600
I couldn't agree more. All right, well then,

01:26:29.600 --> 01:26:31.659
another question. Is there a movie or documentary

01:26:31.659 --> 01:26:38.880
that you love? Movie or documentary? You know,

01:26:38.880 --> 01:26:45.430
I... I don't watch very many documentaries. I

01:26:45.430 --> 01:26:54.710
guess one of my favorites is still Fresh. And

01:26:54.710 --> 01:26:57.710
it came out the same year that Food, Inc. came

01:26:57.710 --> 01:27:02.890
out. But Fresh is as positive as Food, Inc. is

01:27:02.890 --> 01:27:06.670
shockingly negative. And I don't like Food, Inc.

01:27:06.770 --> 01:27:12.579
It was a shocker. But the documentary Fresh had

01:27:12.579 --> 01:27:17.899
a much more positive message. And you left out

01:27:17.899 --> 01:27:20.880
with saying, yes, we can do this. It was very

01:27:20.880 --> 01:27:23.960
empowering and encouraging. Just one word, fresh.

01:27:24.220 --> 01:27:27.380
And it's a good one. Brilliant. And I saw on

01:27:27.380 --> 01:27:29.859
the website, I don't know how I missed this,

01:27:29.899 --> 01:27:31.699
but Polyface has a documentary. Is that right?

01:27:33.239 --> 01:27:35.800
We didn't do it. it. It was done by a couple

01:27:35.800 --> 01:27:39.180
from Australia. Yes, it's called Polyfaces. And

01:27:39.180 --> 01:27:43.000
it was done by an Australian couple. And yes,

01:27:43.239 --> 01:27:48.760
if you want to see more of the farm here and

01:27:48.760 --> 01:27:53.079
what we do in our life, that's a good one. Brilliant.

01:27:53.239 --> 01:27:56.020
All right. The next question, is there a person

01:27:56.020 --> 01:27:57.720
that you'd recommend to come on this podcast

01:27:57.720 --> 01:28:00.539
as a guest to speak to the first responders,

01:28:00.739 --> 01:28:02.720
medical community, and military of the world?

01:28:04.489 --> 01:28:08.090
The first responder community. I'm just blank

01:28:08.090 --> 01:28:12.109
right now. I have to pass on that. That was kind

01:28:12.109 --> 01:28:14.550
of a... No problem. It was a new one. I wasn't

01:28:14.550 --> 01:28:17.170
quite prepared for that one. I apologize. While

01:28:17.170 --> 01:28:19.069
you're thinking about it, your co -author of

01:28:19.069 --> 01:28:22.750
Beyond Labels might actually be a good guess

01:28:22.750 --> 01:28:24.869
as well. Someone who literally dragged themselves

01:28:24.869 --> 01:28:28.170
out. Why am I silly on that? Yes, absolutely.

01:28:28.270 --> 01:28:32.210
She would be fantastic. Sina McCullough, she's

01:28:32.210 --> 01:28:35.789
a very vibrant interviewer. And she would be

01:28:35.789 --> 01:28:38.770
able to speak to that extremely well, yes. Brilliant.

01:28:38.890 --> 01:28:40.670
All right. So then one more question before we

01:28:40.670 --> 01:28:42.270
make sure everyone knows where to find you online.

01:28:42.550 --> 01:28:47.210
What do you do to decompress? Decompress? Well,

01:28:47.449 --> 01:28:51.890
my recreation is reading just a good book, whether

01:28:51.890 --> 01:28:53.789
it's fiction or not. I don't read a lot of fiction,

01:28:53.949 --> 01:28:58.510
mainly nonfiction. But to decompress, just reading

01:28:58.510 --> 01:29:04.300
something, just enjoying. what somebody else's

01:29:04.300 --> 01:29:08.899
thoughts, instead of having to answer questions

01:29:08.899 --> 01:29:13.659
and make up my own, is the way I decompress.

01:29:13.979 --> 01:29:16.760
Brilliant. Well, actually, two days ago, I sent

01:29:16.760 --> 01:29:18.619
a book I've just written, my very first book,

01:29:18.699 --> 01:29:21.760
to an editor, and I actually quote you in there.

01:29:21.939 --> 01:29:25.039
I think it's, you think food is expensive. Have

01:29:25.039 --> 01:29:27.579
you priced cancer lately? I think that was the

01:29:27.579 --> 01:29:30.420
quote I used. But I want to send you a copy of

01:29:30.420 --> 01:29:35.739
that when it's finally out. Yes, I'll look forward

01:29:35.739 --> 01:29:39.800
to that. Yes, I read voraciously. Fantastic.

01:29:40.140 --> 01:29:41.500
Let's hope this will probably be a little different

01:29:41.500 --> 01:29:44.920
than what you've read. It's kind of like behind

01:29:44.920 --> 01:29:47.279
the curtain of what we see, so a different perspective.

01:29:48.240 --> 01:29:50.119
All right, so the very last question, if people

01:29:50.119 --> 01:29:52.159
want to reach out to you, if they want to buy

01:29:52.159 --> 01:29:54.140
the books, if they want to visit the farm and

01:29:54.140 --> 01:29:56.520
actually buy some of your food, how do they find

01:29:56.520 --> 01:30:00.960
you online? So the website is Polyface Farms,

01:30:00.960 --> 01:30:04.420
P -O -L -Y -F -A -C -E. In fact, if you Google

01:30:04.420 --> 01:30:07.340
it, once you get to about P -O -L -Y, the rest

01:30:07.340 --> 01:30:10.859
of it will pop up, Polyface Farms. And we have

01:30:10.859 --> 01:30:15.420
a very active website, gift shop. You can buy

01:30:15.420 --> 01:30:19.300
food. T -shirts that say things like, everything

01:30:19.300 --> 01:30:24.020
I want to do is illegal. And you can see where

01:30:24.020 --> 01:30:29.020
I am speaking, get linked up to news articles,

01:30:29.140 --> 01:30:31.439
things like that, and see pictures of the farm,

01:30:31.579 --> 01:30:34.220
all those kind of things. So, yeah, the website

01:30:34.220 --> 01:30:39.840
is polyfacefarms .com. And I'd love to have you

01:30:39.840 --> 01:30:44.739
check it out. There's a lot of material information

01:30:44.739 --> 01:30:49.100
there. And we do ship nationwide, so anybody

01:30:49.100 --> 01:30:53.140
that wants to try something, just order it right

01:30:53.140 --> 01:30:57.140
there online, and we ship every week and be glad

01:30:57.140 --> 01:30:59.619
to serve you. Excellent. Well, again, Joel, I

01:30:59.619 --> 01:31:01.539
want to say thank you so much. Four years ago,

01:31:01.600 --> 01:31:03.279
I said I'm going to come up and visit soon. I

01:31:03.279 --> 01:31:04.779
still haven't yet. I haven't made it up to the

01:31:04.779 --> 01:31:07.159
Northeast at all. But it's absolutely it was

01:31:07.159 --> 01:31:09.699
actually my plan this this summer before before

01:31:09.699 --> 01:31:12.579
this craziness happened. But I hopefully I'll

01:31:12.579 --> 01:31:14.479
maybe even get to give you the book face to face.

01:31:14.539 --> 01:31:17.699
But I appreciate you taking the time once again.

01:31:17.739 --> 01:31:21.460
And your perspective is invaluable anytime, but

01:31:21.460 --> 01:31:23.680
especially now. So I hope people have gleaned.

01:31:24.220 --> 01:31:27.060
you know, the preventative element of this whole

01:31:27.060 --> 01:31:30.500
situation we've been through. Yes. Thank you

01:31:30.500 --> 01:31:32.119
very much for having me on. I look forward to

01:31:32.119 --> 01:31:34.579
the next time and do please come and visit when

01:31:34.579 --> 01:31:36.199
you can. Love to have you.