WEBVTT

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.620
This episode is sponsored by Transcend, a veteran

00:00:02.620 --> 00:00:04.980
-owned and operated performance optimization

00:00:04.980 --> 00:00:08.039
company that I introduced recently as a sponsor

00:00:08.039 --> 00:00:10.820
on this show. Well, since then I have actually

00:00:10.820 --> 00:00:13.080
been using my products and I have had incredible

00:00:13.080 --> 00:00:15.939
success. There was initial blood work that was

00:00:15.939 --> 00:00:19.039
extremely detailed and based on that they offered

00:00:19.039 --> 00:00:23.519
supplementation. So I began taking DHEA. BPC

00:00:23.519 --> 00:00:26.399
-157 for inflammation based on the fact that

00:00:26.399 --> 00:00:28.300
I've been a stuntman, a martial artist and a

00:00:28.300 --> 00:00:30.579
firefighter my whole life. Lots of aches and

00:00:30.579 --> 00:00:33.880
pains. Dihexa to help cognition after multiple

00:00:33.880 --> 00:00:36.939
punches to the head and shift work and peptides.

00:00:37.079 --> 00:00:39.520
Four months later they did a detailed blood work

00:00:39.520 --> 00:00:42.259
again and I was actually able to taper off two

00:00:42.259 --> 00:00:44.479
of the peptides because my body had responded

00:00:44.479 --> 00:00:47.100
so well to just one of them that it was optimized

00:00:47.100 --> 00:00:50.530
at that point. So I cannot speak highly enough

00:00:50.530 --> 00:00:53.530
of the immense range of supplementation that

00:00:53.530 --> 00:00:55.789
they offer, whether it's male health, female

00:00:55.789 --> 00:00:58.530
health, peptides to boost your own testosterone,

00:00:58.649 --> 00:01:00.829
which I would argue is needed by a lot of the

00:01:00.829 --> 00:01:03.570
fire service, or whether it's exogenous testosterone

00:01:03.570 --> 00:01:06.750
needed, especially after TBIs or advanced age.

00:01:07.239 --> 00:01:09.480
Now, as I mentioned before, the other side of

00:01:09.480 --> 00:01:11.980
this company is an altruistic arm called the

00:01:11.980 --> 00:01:14.840
Transcend Foundation, which is putting veterans

00:01:14.840 --> 00:01:17.620
and first responders through some of their protocols

00:01:17.620 --> 00:01:21.340
free of charge. Now, Transcend are also offering

00:01:21.340 --> 00:01:24.019
you, the audience, 10 % off their protocols.

00:01:24.239 --> 00:01:27.120
And you can find that on jamesgearing .com under

00:01:27.120 --> 00:01:29.840
the Products tab. And if you want to hear more

00:01:29.840 --> 00:01:32.560
about Transcend and their story, listen to episode

00:01:32.560 --> 00:01:37.390
808 with the founder, Ernie Colling. or go to

00:01:37.390 --> 00:01:42.310
transcendcompany .com. Welcome to the Behind

00:01:42.310 --> 00:01:44.269
the Shield podcast. As always, my name is James

00:01:44.269 --> 00:01:46.230
Gearing, and this week it is my absolute honor

00:01:46.230 --> 00:01:50.189
to welcome on the show flight paramedic Mark

00:01:50.189 --> 00:01:53.790
Cresswell. Now, on this conversation, we discuss

00:01:53.790 --> 00:01:57.269
a host of topics, from his journey into EMS,

00:01:57.569 --> 00:02:01.409
entering the world of aviation, responding to

00:02:01.409 --> 00:02:05.370
Hurricane Katrina, the Deepwater Horizon tragedy,

00:02:06.140 --> 00:02:08.840
working as a paramedic at the Burning Man Festival,

00:02:09.000 --> 00:02:12.159
and so much more. Now, before we get to this

00:02:12.159 --> 00:02:14.520
incredible conversation, as I say every week,

00:02:14.620 --> 00:02:17.719
please just take a moment, go to whichever app

00:02:17.719 --> 00:02:20.280
you listen to this on, subscribe to the show.

00:02:20.810 --> 00:02:24.770
Leave feedback and leave a rating. Every single

00:02:24.770 --> 00:02:28.069
five -star rating truly does elevate this podcast,

00:02:28.370 --> 00:02:30.810
therefore making it easier for others to find.

00:02:30.990 --> 00:02:35.830
And this is a free library of over 1 ,100 episodes

00:02:35.830 --> 00:02:39.650
now. So all I ask in return is that you help

00:02:39.650 --> 00:02:42.289
share these incredible men and women's stories

00:02:42.289 --> 00:02:46.430
so I can get them to every single person on planet

00:02:46.430 --> 00:02:49.750
Earth who needs to hear them. So with that being

00:02:49.750 --> 00:02:54.969
said... I introduce to you Mark Creswell. Enjoy.

00:03:14.239 --> 00:03:16.800
Well, Mark, I want to start by saying two things.

00:03:16.879 --> 00:03:19.520
Firstly, thank you to our mutual friend, Michael

00:03:19.520 --> 00:03:22.400
Booman, for making this connection. And secondly,

00:03:22.439 --> 00:03:24.479
I want to welcome you onto the Behind the Shield

00:03:24.479 --> 00:03:27.520
podcast today. Yeah, thanks for the invite. Mike's

00:03:27.520 --> 00:03:29.599
a great guy, man. I'm glad we have a mutual friend

00:03:29.599 --> 00:03:32.060
in him. Absolutely. He's actually brought several

00:03:32.060 --> 00:03:33.659
people onto the show, so I've got to give him

00:03:33.659 --> 00:03:36.620
credit for that. Very first question, where on

00:03:36.620 --> 00:03:38.460
planet Earth are we finding you this afternoon?

00:03:39.419 --> 00:03:42.710
So I'm at Lafayette, Louisiana. I'm the director

00:03:42.710 --> 00:03:46.090
of Air Med Services. It's a division of Acadian

00:03:46.090 --> 00:03:48.909
Ambulance. And I'm at my office at the airport.

00:03:49.810 --> 00:03:52.550
Fantastic. Well, we will get to what you're doing

00:03:52.550 --> 00:03:54.050
now, but I'd love to start at the very beginning

00:03:54.050 --> 00:03:56.990
of your journey. So tell me where you were born

00:03:56.990 --> 00:03:58.870
and tell me a little bit about your family dynamic,

00:03:59.069 --> 00:04:02.110
what your parents did, how many siblings. Yep.

00:04:02.129 --> 00:04:05.250
So born and raised in Abbeville, Louisiana, 1970.

00:04:06.569 --> 00:04:09.620
Regular family, daddy. Was in the oil field.

00:04:09.800 --> 00:04:12.979
Mom was involved in like school activities and

00:04:12.979 --> 00:04:17.019
things of that nature. Have a brother. Went to

00:04:17.019 --> 00:04:20.379
a Catholic school my whole life in Abbeville

00:04:20.379 --> 00:04:26.279
and graduated in 1988. Talk to me about what

00:04:26.279 --> 00:04:28.540
your dad did as far as the oil industry back

00:04:28.540 --> 00:04:32.620
then. What were the highs, the pros of that profession

00:04:32.620 --> 00:04:34.579
and the working environment? And then if any,

00:04:34.660 --> 00:04:39.339
what were any cons? Yeah, so my pop was working

00:04:39.339 --> 00:04:45.120
offshore. He was like a mid -level manager of

00:04:45.120 --> 00:04:48.480
offshore installations. A little bit later in

00:04:48.480 --> 00:04:50.879
his career, when I was growing up, like in the

00:04:50.879 --> 00:04:54.500
70s, he took an office job, five and two, and

00:04:54.500 --> 00:04:57.560
he was a superintendent for Union Oil Company.

00:04:57.720 --> 00:05:00.060
And he specialized in oil field transportation.

00:05:00.970 --> 00:05:03.389
And one of those things was helicopters. And

00:05:03.389 --> 00:05:07.569
that's kind of where I whet my appetite for helicopters.

00:05:07.790 --> 00:05:11.310
I can remember him a long, long time ago coming

00:05:11.310 --> 00:05:14.029
in from offshore and they would crew change in

00:05:14.029 --> 00:05:17.689
Lafayette. And they actually pit stopped on our

00:05:17.689 --> 00:05:20.870
family property to drop daddy off in like 1974.

00:05:22.430 --> 00:05:24.870
I grew up around helicopters the whole time.

00:05:25.730 --> 00:05:29.990
He retired in 1996. after a successful career

00:05:29.990 --> 00:05:35.250
with Unical. I guess I learned hard work from

00:05:35.250 --> 00:05:38.129
him. I mean, he was really dedicated to his work,

00:05:38.209 --> 00:05:42.069
but he was really dedicated to us too. And he

00:05:42.069 --> 00:05:43.990
taught me one thing, do what's right, not what's

00:05:43.990 --> 00:05:47.449
popular. And I kind of try to live by that. Absolutely.

00:05:47.829 --> 00:05:51.110
What, if any, conversations have you had as far

00:05:51.110 --> 00:05:54.670
as the metamorphosis of health and safety in

00:05:54.670 --> 00:05:59.540
that industry? With dad? Yeah, I mean, through

00:05:59.540 --> 00:06:01.439
that lens that he's had over several decades,

00:06:01.560 --> 00:06:03.819
because when I think about oil rigs in the North

00:06:03.819 --> 00:06:06.579
Sea when I was growing up, every so often you'd

00:06:06.579 --> 00:06:08.660
have these horrendous disasters. So I would imagine

00:06:08.660 --> 00:06:11.079
there was an evolution, you know, through sadly

00:06:11.079 --> 00:06:14.100
loss of life in that industry. Yeah, unfortunately,

00:06:14.379 --> 00:06:18.300
dad was involved in several helicopter accidents

00:06:18.300 --> 00:06:22.339
offshore. One of them involved my best friend's

00:06:22.339 --> 00:06:26.300
dad who lost his life. And they actually came

00:06:26.300 --> 00:06:30.439
and told us at football practice. One thing that

00:06:30.439 --> 00:06:34.180
dad told me was, you know, always, always be

00:06:34.180 --> 00:06:37.500
safe. Be cognizant of what your people are telling

00:06:37.500 --> 00:06:41.420
you and listen to them. I'm proud to say that

00:06:41.420 --> 00:06:44.220
I really took that to heart. And I've got six

00:06:44.220 --> 00:06:48.579
months left here at work. And in my nearly 30

00:06:48.579 --> 00:06:52.060
years at work for Acadian Air Med, you know,

00:06:52.060 --> 00:06:56.230
been accident free. So I'm really proud of. of

00:06:56.230 --> 00:06:59.329
learning safety through my dad. My dad was one

00:06:59.329 --> 00:07:02.069
of the first pioneers teaching water survival

00:07:02.069 --> 00:07:06.790
offshore. He learned that from someone from the

00:07:06.790 --> 00:07:09.629
North Sea, Margaret McMillan, and started a water

00:07:09.629 --> 00:07:12.709
survival training for all field people before

00:07:12.709 --> 00:07:15.769
it became a commercial training thing down here.

00:07:16.430 --> 00:07:19.149
Him doing it in a swimming pool at a high school.

00:07:19.889 --> 00:07:22.170
And they would bring everybody in and they would

00:07:22.170 --> 00:07:25.089
practice. But even before they had those trainers,

00:07:25.230 --> 00:07:27.430
before OSHA and before all these other things,

00:07:27.649 --> 00:07:29.990
they were walking them off the side of platforms

00:07:29.990 --> 00:07:33.470
and letting them drop in the water before all

00:07:33.470 --> 00:07:37.170
the regulations started. They were really real

00:07:37.170 --> 00:07:39.149
-life training people to survive in the Gulf

00:07:39.149 --> 00:07:42.529
of Mexico. Interesting way of doing that. I'm

00:07:42.529 --> 00:07:45.149
sure the realism was amazing, but I would imagine,

00:07:45.269 --> 00:07:48.490
God forbid, there might have been some accidents

00:07:48.490 --> 00:07:51.089
around that. I think that's the way things were

00:07:51.089 --> 00:07:54.819
in the 70s. All right. Well, we'll get to how

00:07:54.819 --> 00:07:57.399
that ties in with one of the rescues that you

00:07:57.399 --> 00:07:59.939
were a part of later on. You mentioned football.

00:08:00.139 --> 00:08:03.660
What kind of games and or exercise were you doing

00:08:03.660 --> 00:08:06.500
when you were in high school age? You know, I

00:08:06.500 --> 00:08:10.459
played football, played baseball. I was never

00:08:10.459 --> 00:08:12.459
really competitive, to be honest with you. I

00:08:12.459 --> 00:08:14.120
was doing it because that's where all my friends

00:08:14.120 --> 00:08:18.620
were. And we actually had more fun than anything

00:08:18.620 --> 00:08:23.470
else. I didn't do a whole lot of track. I played

00:08:23.470 --> 00:08:26.029
basketball, although I was pretty short, but

00:08:26.029 --> 00:08:30.230
it was just to hang around with friends. And

00:08:30.230 --> 00:08:32.450
I guess because of that athleticism kind of led

00:08:32.450 --> 00:08:36.110
me into joining the military right out of high

00:08:36.110 --> 00:08:39.570
school. So talk to me about that. What made you

00:08:39.570 --> 00:08:42.490
choose the military in general and then why that

00:08:42.490 --> 00:08:47.139
branch specifically? I just never wanted to be

00:08:47.139 --> 00:08:49.019
a burden on my parents, and I wanted to go to

00:08:49.019 --> 00:08:51.500
college. So I just decided to join the military

00:08:51.500 --> 00:08:56.759
to be able to get access to college funds. I

00:08:56.759 --> 00:08:58.720
joined the Army because that's what a bunch of

00:08:58.720 --> 00:09:02.759
my friends were doing at that time. Coincidentally,

00:09:02.759 --> 00:09:06.000
the next year, all of my friends in the class

00:09:06.000 --> 00:09:07.480
behind me, they all joined the Marine Corps.

00:09:07.840 --> 00:09:09.899
So I don't know. I guess I was just a victim

00:09:09.899 --> 00:09:14.629
of herd mentality at that time. I wanted to just

00:09:14.629 --> 00:09:17.129
get in, do my part and get out and go back to

00:09:17.129 --> 00:09:23.269
school. And which years did that span? 87 to

00:09:23.269 --> 00:09:27.250
1991. Okay. Did you find yourself deployed or

00:09:27.250 --> 00:09:30.929
was it mainly training based? No, we got activated

00:09:30.929 --> 00:09:34.629
for Desert Storm the day after Thanksgiving of

00:09:34.629 --> 00:09:39.450
1990. And then we were out of there in May of

00:09:39.450 --> 00:09:44.019
91. I've had... some pretty interesting perspectives

00:09:44.019 --> 00:09:45.919
with that because obviously that was a lot shorter

00:09:45.919 --> 00:09:50.419
you know um uh combat or conflict excuse me than

00:09:50.419 --> 00:09:53.539
than the 20 years that we saw more recently what

00:09:53.539 --> 00:09:56.120
was that particular conflict like through your

00:09:56.120 --> 00:09:59.320
eyes well you know to be quite honest like we

00:09:59.320 --> 00:10:02.100
were getting ready to be deployed overseas we

00:10:02.100 --> 00:10:05.299
were being held at fort hood texas uh and we

00:10:05.299 --> 00:10:08.580
never really got to make it uh we we loaded up

00:10:08.580 --> 00:10:12.919
all of our vehicles on the railhead and uh Thank

00:10:12.919 --> 00:10:15.600
God it was just a hundred hour war and they didn't

00:10:15.600 --> 00:10:18.799
need us. So for me, it was it was pretty safe,

00:10:18.899 --> 00:10:23.559
but kind of anxious, too. You know, like what

00:10:23.559 --> 00:10:27.340
was this going to be like? Absolutely. All right.

00:10:27.340 --> 00:10:29.460
So what then made you transition back out the

00:10:29.460 --> 00:10:33.559
other side? So I knew I wanted to do something

00:10:33.559 --> 00:10:38.139
medical and I'll go back a little bit. My grandfather

00:10:38.139 --> 00:10:41.279
had some really bad legs and he had hurt himself.

00:10:42.190 --> 00:10:45.350
and he was transported by ambulance and it was

00:10:45.350 --> 00:10:47.710
the same guys and i'd always ride in the front

00:10:47.710 --> 00:10:50.110
of the ambulance and we live way in the country

00:10:50.110 --> 00:10:53.129
so to get to the hospital we take all the back

00:10:53.129 --> 00:10:54.590
roads they let me sit in the front play with

00:10:54.590 --> 00:10:57.409
the siren you know that that really got me excited

00:10:57.409 --> 00:11:02.809
um when i got out the military i got into an

00:11:02.809 --> 00:11:07.450
emt class and i had been out about a week and

00:11:07.450 --> 00:11:11.169
we were roping horses and um excuse me, roping

00:11:11.169 --> 00:11:14.769
cattle on horseback. And one of my co -ropers

00:11:14.769 --> 00:11:17.669
fell off the horse. The horse fell on him, broke

00:11:17.669 --> 00:11:19.529
his back, paralyzed him from the waist down.

00:11:21.009 --> 00:11:23.350
So I'm like, I'm fresh EMT. I don't know nothing.

00:11:23.850 --> 00:11:25.970
I ain't got nothing to keep him warm. We don't

00:11:25.970 --> 00:11:29.429
have a cell phone. So I unsaddled his horse,

00:11:29.490 --> 00:11:31.730
covered him with a blanket. I rode my horse as

00:11:31.730 --> 00:11:33.870
fast as I could, several miles down the road.

00:11:34.269 --> 00:11:36.690
And when I got back, the helicopter was landing

00:11:36.690 --> 00:11:41.529
and Ed Murray was the paramedic. And I asked

00:11:41.529 --> 00:11:43.370
Ed, I didn't know him then. I was like, hey,

00:11:43.389 --> 00:11:46.309
can I ride with you to the trauma center? So

00:11:46.309 --> 00:11:48.730
that was my first ride on AirMed. And I can remember

00:11:48.730 --> 00:11:52.490
at the hospital telling him, I'll come and do

00:11:52.490 --> 00:11:55.950
your job one day. And five years later, I did

00:11:55.950 --> 00:12:00.149
his job. So you found yourself working for a

00:12:00.149 --> 00:12:03.769
company that had a multitude of different operational

00:12:03.769 --> 00:12:07.360
outlets. How did you find Acadian specifically?

00:12:07.620 --> 00:12:09.720
And then what was your kind of front door experience

00:12:09.720 --> 00:12:14.419
like? Yeah. So back in the day, there were no

00:12:14.419 --> 00:12:17.559
other ambulance services around where I lived

00:12:17.559 --> 00:12:20.379
at. You just knew Acadian Ambulance. You never

00:12:20.379 --> 00:12:22.419
said call an ambulance. You said call Acadian.

00:12:23.039 --> 00:12:27.539
So, you know, I applied there. Tommy Dion was

00:12:27.539 --> 00:12:32.679
the recruiting person. And he got me in the door,

00:12:32.840 --> 00:12:37.929
went through orientation. And it was eye -opening.

00:12:38.190 --> 00:12:41.070
I've worked hard all my life, you know, growing

00:12:41.070 --> 00:12:44.750
up around the oil field and growing up, you know,

00:12:44.750 --> 00:12:47.509
in the farm industry and doing manual labor.

00:12:47.929 --> 00:12:50.730
And this was just so different. While there were

00:12:50.730 --> 00:12:53.149
long days, you didn't work really, really, really

00:12:53.149 --> 00:12:58.809
hard. But you got to dress nice. People really

00:12:58.809 --> 00:13:02.440
respected you back then. down in louisiana it's

00:13:02.440 --> 00:13:04.860
a very welcoming community a lot of times we

00:13:04.860 --> 00:13:06.419
would go to hospitals and people would have food

00:13:06.419 --> 00:13:11.259
waiting on us so it was a really great time it's

00:13:11.259 --> 00:13:13.200
interesting the perception of hard work because

00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:15.259
i grew up on a farm so i can absolutely relate

00:13:15.259 --> 00:13:17.460
i was bailing hay and stone picking and mucking

00:13:17.460 --> 00:13:19.159
out stables and all those kind of things when

00:13:19.159 --> 00:13:22.440
i was young but what we do now especially on

00:13:22.440 --> 00:13:25.840
the fire side you know there is a lot of um you

00:13:25.840 --> 00:13:27.799
know time where you're not physically working

00:13:27.799 --> 00:13:30.889
you're not roofing all day but i don't think

00:13:30.889 --> 00:13:33.690
what people understand is when you have to use

00:13:33.690 --> 00:13:35.870
that exertion it's extremely high level even

00:13:35.870 --> 00:13:37.789
even from the ems point of view you know god

00:13:37.789 --> 00:13:39.929
forbid there's a shooting or something or we

00:13:39.929 --> 00:13:41.690
all know you know some of the cardiac arrests

00:13:41.690 --> 00:13:43.490
happen in the toilet and they're wedged between

00:13:43.490 --> 00:13:46.129
the you know the toilet and the shower and so

00:13:46.129 --> 00:13:49.549
this kind of perception that first responders

00:13:49.549 --> 00:13:51.950
need to be constantly working you know this busy

00:13:51.950 --> 00:13:55.470
time mentality um is such a kind of misnomer

00:13:55.470 --> 00:13:58.299
because if you look at the zero to a hundred

00:13:58.299 --> 00:14:01.960
element of what we do, it's so unique and it

00:14:01.960 --> 00:14:04.980
requires rest recovery training to be ready for

00:14:04.980 --> 00:14:09.399
those extreme moments. You know, I'm one of the

00:14:09.399 --> 00:14:13.059
only, I would say there's five or six directors

00:14:13.059 --> 00:14:16.899
at Acadian right now. And I think I'm one of

00:14:16.899 --> 00:14:20.659
the only one that still does work. I've worked

00:14:20.659 --> 00:14:23.120
on an ambulance not very long ago, but I can

00:14:23.120 --> 00:14:26.850
tell you From way back then to right now, the

00:14:26.850 --> 00:14:31.590
op tempo is drastically different. We would work

00:14:31.590 --> 00:14:33.789
a 24 -hour shift, and you'd run two or three

00:14:33.789 --> 00:14:37.669
calls, sleep most of the night. And I know right

00:14:37.669 --> 00:14:39.490
now you'd work a 12 -hour shift, and you'd get

00:14:39.490 --> 00:14:41.509
those first three calls within the first three

00:14:41.509 --> 00:14:45.850
hours. And it's not uncommon to run 10, 12, up

00:14:45.850 --> 00:14:50.529
to 14 in a 12 -hour shift. So while I say you

00:14:50.529 --> 00:14:52.470
didn't work hard back then, man, you really work

00:14:52.470 --> 00:14:58.460
hard now. So you found yourself, correct me if

00:14:58.460 --> 00:15:00.299
I'm wrong, you were in the admin side before

00:15:00.299 --> 00:15:03.559
you got in the EMS side. Is that correct? No,

00:15:03.580 --> 00:15:10.860
I was on the ambulance up until about 1995. And

00:15:10.860 --> 00:15:15.200
I became a paramedic in 93. In 1995, I was selected

00:15:15.200 --> 00:15:19.159
to join the air program. So I joined part -time.

00:15:20.200 --> 00:15:23.759
And a full -time spot came open in 1999 for me.

00:15:24.779 --> 00:15:29.879
But I knew I just didn't want to be just a paramedic.

00:15:29.879 --> 00:15:33.879
I wanted to be well -rounded. And I just begged

00:15:33.879 --> 00:15:36.899
and pleaded with every department head to let

00:15:36.899 --> 00:15:40.179
me come and train and do something. So I trained

00:15:40.179 --> 00:15:44.659
in dispatch on my days off. I taught orientation

00:15:44.659 --> 00:15:49.340
on my days off. I was in the education department.

00:15:49.399 --> 00:15:52.379
I just did a lot, a lot of stuff for Acadian

00:15:52.379 --> 00:15:59.779
all my day off to round myself out. And I'm really

00:15:59.779 --> 00:16:03.639
glad I did that because I can see things from

00:16:03.639 --> 00:16:07.080
different lenses that people that didn't do that,

00:16:07.159 --> 00:16:09.580
they just have a single vision of the company.

00:16:11.899 --> 00:16:14.039
So I think that was probably one of my wisest

00:16:14.039 --> 00:16:18.250
choices when I was at Acadian. put my fingers

00:16:18.250 --> 00:16:21.570
involved in all aspects of operations, support,

00:16:21.909 --> 00:16:25.470
so on and so forth. So what was some of the career

00:16:25.470 --> 00:16:27.789
calls you remember from that chapter when you

00:16:27.789 --> 00:16:29.870
were on the ambulance and doing some of the dispatch

00:16:29.870 --> 00:16:36.210
stuff? You know, myself and Bill Gerard one day,

00:16:36.269 --> 00:16:38.330
he was my partner. We were two paramedics on

00:16:38.330 --> 00:16:41.309
an ambulance and we responded maybe 20 miles

00:16:41.309 --> 00:16:44.429
out in the country for a car accident. And there

00:16:44.429 --> 00:16:48.500
was a guy there. who had run through a hurricane

00:16:48.500 --> 00:16:49.879
fence. And if you're familiar with hurricane

00:16:49.879 --> 00:16:54.600
fences, they have a top pipe. And it went through

00:16:54.600 --> 00:16:57.960
the windshield, through the steering wheel, into

00:16:57.960 --> 00:17:00.740
his chest, and it impaled him against the back

00:17:00.740 --> 00:17:03.919
of the truck. You got to remember, very rural,

00:17:04.140 --> 00:17:08.019
long response times. We didn't have fire department

00:17:08.019 --> 00:17:10.539
there. We called for them, but they were still

00:17:10.539 --> 00:17:12.819
going to be 20 minutes away. So we devised this

00:17:12.819 --> 00:17:16.289
plan. to at least take some of the pressure off

00:17:16.289 --> 00:17:18.730
of him. So there was a welding truck there, and

00:17:18.730 --> 00:17:21.670
we latched onto the back of the truck with lots

00:17:21.670 --> 00:17:24.730
of gauze to stabilize it, to get him from being

00:17:24.730 --> 00:17:27.269
pinned up against the top of the truck. And in

00:17:27.269 --> 00:17:29.710
our efforts, the guy who was driving the welding

00:17:29.710 --> 00:17:33.329
truck backed up way too far, and we pulled the

00:17:33.329 --> 00:17:37.890
pipe out of his chest. Retrospectively, it probably

00:17:37.890 --> 00:17:42.180
saved his life. Because immediately... when that

00:17:42.180 --> 00:17:46.160
happened the helicopter landed we packed it full

00:17:46.160 --> 00:17:49.359
of gauze and took him to the trauma center and

00:17:49.359 --> 00:17:53.720
the guy actually survived i don't smoke cigarettes

00:17:53.720 --> 00:17:57.779
and i needed a cigarette after that call but

00:17:57.779 --> 00:18:00.680
um you know we uh we were given the distinguished

00:18:00.680 --> 00:18:03.500
service award for that it's it's awarded very

00:18:03.500 --> 00:18:07.880
very infrequently um for saving somebody's life

00:18:07.880 --> 00:18:13.240
um But on a positive note, and I always like

00:18:13.240 --> 00:18:17.200
to look at the positive side, making impacts

00:18:17.200 --> 00:18:19.640
to patients, not just necessarily doing treatments,

00:18:19.779 --> 00:18:21.519
but just how you treat them is very important

00:18:21.519 --> 00:18:24.660
to me. And I can remember this one guy. He was

00:18:24.660 --> 00:18:26.880
well into his 80s, and we were bringing him home

00:18:26.880 --> 00:18:29.680
way out in the country, and he was going home

00:18:29.680 --> 00:18:32.319
to die. He was terminal. And he said he wanted

00:18:32.319 --> 00:18:35.079
to see his cows one last time. And we asked him

00:18:35.079 --> 00:18:37.000
where his barn was at, and it wasn't far down

00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:40.460
the road. So we backed the ambulance. down this

00:18:40.460 --> 00:18:42.839
gravel road up to this barn. And when we got

00:18:42.839 --> 00:18:45.400
a feed bucket and we're beating the feed bucket

00:18:45.400 --> 00:18:47.740
on the back of the ambulance with the doors wide

00:18:47.740 --> 00:18:50.019
open and all his cows came and saw him one last

00:18:50.019 --> 00:18:56.779
time. And often tell that story because a lot

00:18:56.779 --> 00:18:58.720
of people think that everything you need to be

00:18:58.720 --> 00:19:01.440
a paramedic is in that bag of goodies that we

00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:03.779
have. And often tell people the most powerful

00:19:03.779 --> 00:19:06.779
drug you have in a lot of your patients, not

00:19:06.779 --> 00:19:08.700
your patients that are really sick, but most

00:19:08.700 --> 00:19:11.980
of them. is this hand right here. Take that hand

00:19:11.980 --> 00:19:14.640
and put that on their shoulder and reassure them

00:19:14.640 --> 00:19:15.799
and tell them they're going to be all right.

00:19:16.799 --> 00:19:19.200
The majority of the time, that's what a lot of

00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:23.920
people need is to be human and be there present

00:19:23.920 --> 00:19:28.700
for them. You don't need to be the best IV starter

00:19:28.700 --> 00:19:30.619
out there to take care of a lot of your patients.

00:19:31.359 --> 00:19:34.670
I couldn't agree more. written two books now

00:19:34.670 --> 00:19:36.509
and I use this story in both because I think

00:19:36.509 --> 00:19:38.950
it's so important. One of the things that we

00:19:38.950 --> 00:19:42.250
did in on my side was what we call back to bed

00:19:42.250 --> 00:19:45.369
calls. And all it was, was, you know, you had

00:19:45.369 --> 00:19:47.750
an elderly couple and let's say, for example,

00:19:47.750 --> 00:19:49.650
the wife had fallen out of the bed and maybe

00:19:49.650 --> 00:19:52.309
she saw it herself and she's lying there. And

00:19:52.309 --> 00:19:54.789
the husband now is in his eighties or nineties

00:19:54.789 --> 00:19:56.769
and he's just too weak. This is the love of his

00:19:56.769 --> 00:19:58.730
life. It's just, you know, the woman that he

00:19:58.730 --> 00:20:00.809
used to protect when he was, you know, young

00:20:00.809 --> 00:20:04.000
and able. And so all you do is you come in with,

00:20:04.059 --> 00:20:06.380
you know, three or four people and you pick them

00:20:06.380 --> 00:20:08.160
up and you clean them up and you change their

00:20:08.160 --> 00:20:10.299
clothes and you put them back to bed. You don't

00:20:10.299 --> 00:20:12.500
see that on backdraft. You don't see that on,

00:20:12.579 --> 00:20:15.440
you know, Chicago fire. But like you said, we

00:20:15.440 --> 00:20:17.579
didn't have to break the box open apart from

00:20:17.579 --> 00:20:19.420
obviously checking her over when we were done.

00:20:19.960 --> 00:20:22.940
But it was that kindness and compassion and the

00:20:22.940 --> 00:20:26.279
dignity that was restored by simply cleaning

00:20:26.279 --> 00:20:28.420
someone up and changing their clothes and putting

00:20:28.420 --> 00:20:32.170
them back to bed. to me outweighs most life -saving

00:20:32.170 --> 00:20:36.250
calls i've ever had couldn't agree more could

00:20:36.250 --> 00:20:38.809
not agree more i've i've had lots of requests

00:20:38.809 --> 00:20:42.990
and if they're not illegal or immoral i try to

00:20:42.990 --> 00:20:46.509
do it uh even even going through a drive -through

00:20:46.509 --> 00:20:48.430
with a patient who wanted some chili dogs one

00:20:48.430 --> 00:20:52.630
day and it just just made his day he was at a

00:20:52.630 --> 00:20:54.650
nursing home he's just eating just regular nursing

00:20:54.650 --> 00:20:56.650
home food and he's like man i sure want some

00:20:56.650 --> 00:20:59.789
chili dogs So we went to the drive -thru and

00:20:59.789 --> 00:21:04.750
man, he was happy. How, if you've observed this

00:21:04.750 --> 00:21:08.809
at all, how have we got away from that being

00:21:08.809 --> 00:21:11.029
what's burning in our heart? Because it is, you

00:21:11.029 --> 00:21:15.930
know, that desire to serve to rules and regs

00:21:15.930 --> 00:21:18.009
and almost in a way is the kind of opposition

00:21:18.009 --> 00:21:21.490
of some of the kindness and compassion that creates

00:21:21.490 --> 00:21:24.029
a good paramedic or doctor or, you know, someone

00:21:24.029 --> 00:21:27.900
in the medical field. I think it's a system problem.

00:21:28.640 --> 00:21:32.740
I think fundamentally the majority of people

00:21:32.740 --> 00:21:35.940
want to be kind, compassionate. I think they

00:21:35.940 --> 00:21:40.119
want to take care of patients. But I think as

00:21:40.119 --> 00:21:42.799
an industry, and it's not necessarily a bad thing,

00:21:42.839 --> 00:21:45.740
we do things for reasons, but we've put so many

00:21:45.740 --> 00:21:50.619
things in place that we have to do that takes

00:21:50.619 --> 00:21:53.660
time away from people being a compassionate person.

00:21:54.559 --> 00:21:57.680
Meaning, You've got these targeted on -scene

00:21:57.680 --> 00:22:00.220
times. You've got drop times at the hospital.

00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:03.400
You've got ticket completion times. And if you

00:22:03.400 --> 00:22:04.960
don't complete your ticket, then you get a little

00:22:04.960 --> 00:22:12.019
demerit. And the pace and the efficiency that

00:22:12.019 --> 00:22:18.240
a lot of organizations work at, the system prohibits

00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:24.819
the person many times from exercising that heartfelt,

00:22:26.779 --> 00:22:31.720
or that heartfelt take care of the person versus

00:22:31.720 --> 00:22:34.059
taking care of the regulations of the time or

00:22:34.059 --> 00:22:37.779
the time watch or something like that. How do

00:22:37.779 --> 00:22:41.299
we get back to it? Man, I don't know how you

00:22:41.299 --> 00:22:43.180
can put all that toothpaste back in the tube.

00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:47.859
When you were just talking, it reminded me of

00:22:47.859 --> 00:22:51.400
MCI. So when we have a mass cash, obviously a

00:22:51.400 --> 00:22:53.920
lot of the rules go out the window. And now,

00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:56.140
you know, you're literally triaging a patient.

00:22:56.259 --> 00:22:57.920
Are they going to die? Are they close to dying?

00:22:57.980 --> 00:23:00.240
Or can they get up and walk? And that's it. That's

00:23:00.240 --> 00:23:02.539
the end of your care. Put a tag on them, move

00:23:02.539 --> 00:23:05.859
on. And I think that, you know, what I see, and

00:23:05.859 --> 00:23:07.880
this is why it's very sad, because I thought

00:23:07.880 --> 00:23:09.480
we were supposed to be trying to make America

00:23:09.480 --> 00:23:12.079
healthy again, apolitically, just as a movement,

00:23:12.160 --> 00:23:15.920
and I'm not seeing it. But the reason why I think

00:23:15.920 --> 00:23:18.779
we're seeing this compassion fatigue and this

00:23:18.779 --> 00:23:20.980
burnout is because there's just so many sick

00:23:20.980 --> 00:23:23.660
people in the States now. And if there was a

00:23:23.660 --> 00:23:26.400
push to actually make our nation healthy again,

00:23:26.539 --> 00:23:29.180
you know, through everything from schools and

00:23:29.180 --> 00:23:34.119
exercise in food and exercise in schools, through

00:23:34.119 --> 00:23:36.220
to pedestrianization and public transport and

00:23:36.220 --> 00:23:37.660
all these other things that will keep people

00:23:37.660 --> 00:23:40.700
on their feet a lot more, I think you'd stop

00:23:40.700 --> 00:23:42.900
overwhelming the medical community and then we

00:23:42.900 --> 00:23:45.799
would have the time. But just like an MCI, there

00:23:45.799 --> 00:23:48.059
are so many people now. I bet if you look at

00:23:48.059 --> 00:23:52.099
the ratio. of sick people to paramedics or nurses

00:23:52.099 --> 00:23:55.920
or doctors, it's probably just exploded exponentially

00:23:55.920 --> 00:23:59.720
through the roof. So the answer to me isn't so

00:23:59.720 --> 00:24:01.660
much we need just more and more and more of us,

00:24:01.740 --> 00:24:03.839
it's we need less and less and less of them.

00:24:03.960 --> 00:24:06.299
So how can we prevent people from being as sick?

00:24:06.579 --> 00:24:09.700
But that's a conversation I'm still waiting to

00:24:09.700 --> 00:24:12.900
see on a national scale. Yeah, that's a generational

00:24:12.900 --> 00:24:16.460
change, I think. You know, I like what you said

00:24:16.460 --> 00:24:21.220
earlier. About the rules go out the window. I'm

00:24:21.220 --> 00:24:24.099
going to be the first one to admit I'm not black

00:24:24.099 --> 00:24:28.279
and white. I love to operate in the gray. And

00:24:28.279 --> 00:24:30.259
a lot of big things that have happened in my

00:24:30.259 --> 00:24:33.359
career, you know, Deepwater Horizon, the hurricanes,

00:24:33.799 --> 00:24:40.039
Katrina, gives you an opportunity to get rid

00:24:40.039 --> 00:24:44.900
of that rule book sometimes. And there's been

00:24:44.900 --> 00:24:47.779
a lot of times I've had to cross that line, a

00:24:47.779 --> 00:24:50.819
step out of that protocol, albeit justified,

00:24:51.200 --> 00:24:54.839
that these big things give you that freedom.

00:24:55.339 --> 00:24:57.119
And as long as you're doing the right thing and

00:24:57.119 --> 00:24:59.519
you can back it up, I think that's good. And

00:24:59.519 --> 00:25:07.240
those big things sometimes allow you not to address

00:25:07.240 --> 00:25:11.220
the regulation or the time or things like that.

00:25:11.259 --> 00:25:14.180
And it's a great deal of freedom. Yeah, I think

00:25:14.180 --> 00:25:16.759
it goes back to doing the right thing. That's

00:25:16.759 --> 00:25:18.819
what I found a few times in my career. I've had

00:25:18.819 --> 00:25:21.779
to push back, whether it's bypassing a couple

00:25:21.779 --> 00:25:25.759
of hospitals because you want to go to a comprehensive

00:25:25.759 --> 00:25:27.839
stroke center or a trauma center because you

00:25:27.839 --> 00:25:30.559
suspect a certain mechanism injury or disease,

00:25:30.900 --> 00:25:34.460
or like we said, taking a refusal, even though

00:25:34.460 --> 00:25:36.539
your medical director tells you everyone should

00:25:36.539 --> 00:25:38.799
go to the hospital because it would be more beneficial

00:25:38.799 --> 00:25:41.880
for that child to be in their home or their hotel

00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:44.759
room. than between a drunk and a psych patient

00:25:44.759 --> 00:25:46.740
in an ER, you know, putting up with screaming

00:25:46.740 --> 00:25:49.319
all night, you know? So you, I think sometimes

00:25:49.319 --> 00:25:51.220
you, like you said, if you can back it up and

00:25:51.220 --> 00:25:54.220
it's actually better for the patient, sometimes

00:25:54.220 --> 00:25:56.359
you need a little courage too, to be able to

00:25:56.359 --> 00:25:58.079
stand behind your decision and say, no, this,

00:25:58.180 --> 00:26:01.380
this is what was the right decision for the patient,

00:26:01.500 --> 00:26:03.859
regardless of what your black and white protocol

00:26:03.859 --> 00:26:08.960
says. I think you're right. You are very right.

00:26:10.140 --> 00:26:12.920
Well, you mentioned. a bunch of you know well

00:26:12.920 --> 00:26:15.619
-known incidences in american history so before

00:26:15.619 --> 00:26:18.119
we dive into some of the the large events that

00:26:18.119 --> 00:26:20.660
you were part of walk me through the transition

00:26:20.660 --> 00:26:25.420
from ambulance to helicopter medicine yeah man

00:26:25.420 --> 00:26:28.420
so you know i was welcomed into the air med program

00:26:28.420 --> 00:26:33.180
um i met with the chief flight paramedic at that

00:26:33.180 --> 00:26:36.299
time was tony morales and i'm just gonna i'm

00:26:36.299 --> 00:26:38.039
gonna shock the entire world right here when

00:26:38.039 --> 00:26:41.789
i say this At that time, we were a single provider.

00:26:42.150 --> 00:26:45.990
You had a pilot and you had a paramedic. And

00:26:45.990 --> 00:26:50.890
that's the way we started way back when. And

00:26:50.890 --> 00:26:54.109
it was the way we did things. And we just got

00:26:54.109 --> 00:26:58.349
things done. I did all my training in Lafayette

00:26:58.349 --> 00:27:01.509
and in Baton Rouge. I had some really great trainers,

00:27:01.730 --> 00:27:05.799
Jimmy Greco, Porter Taylor. You know, just icons

00:27:05.799 --> 00:27:09.019
of our little small world right here that taught

00:27:09.019 --> 00:27:13.240
me how to do things right. Even so much as wrapping

00:27:13.240 --> 00:27:16.839
up the EKG cables the correct way. I can still

00:27:16.839 --> 00:27:20.220
remember that from 1995 so they didn't get all

00:27:20.220 --> 00:27:24.539
tangled up. I did something to get them on my

00:27:24.539 --> 00:27:27.559
side. I'm a big fisherman and I used to cook

00:27:27.559 --> 00:27:30.119
fish and seafood for them every day we were at

00:27:30.119 --> 00:27:35.240
work. So they love seeing me over there. I cleared

00:27:35.240 --> 00:27:38.079
after about six or eight weeks and then just

00:27:38.079 --> 00:27:42.799
kind of worked openings. At that time, we had

00:27:42.799 --> 00:27:46.700
three helicopters, Homa, Baton Rouge and Lafayette.

00:27:48.759 --> 00:27:52.519
I went full time in 1999. At that time, we had

00:27:52.519 --> 00:27:55.259
a new medical director. His name was Dr. Ross

00:27:55.259 --> 00:27:59.400
Giudice. And we were writing new protocols and

00:27:59.400 --> 00:28:02.309
he brought me. into his office, took me off the

00:28:02.309 --> 00:28:04.130
helicopter for a few months to write protocol.

00:28:05.170 --> 00:28:08.509
And I just learned a lot working alongside him,

00:28:08.549 --> 00:28:12.769
built a really great relationship. And that afforded

00:28:12.769 --> 00:28:17.230
me the trust from the medical director to implement

00:28:17.230 --> 00:28:21.609
changes that I thought was necessary. We've got

00:28:21.609 --> 00:28:25.519
a new medical director. I say new. We had a new

00:28:25.519 --> 00:28:28.599
medical director in 2010, Dr. Chuck Burnell,

00:28:28.759 --> 00:28:30.759
and I maintained that friendship and relationship

00:28:30.759 --> 00:28:34.900
with him. And because of that, anything that

00:28:34.900 --> 00:28:39.759
we found was in the positive for patient care,

00:28:39.940 --> 00:28:42.819
as long as it was scientifically based, he allowed

00:28:42.819 --> 00:28:46.279
us to do that. And we really expanded the protocols.

00:28:46.640 --> 00:28:50.180
We actually convinced the company to allow us

00:28:50.180 --> 00:28:53.650
to put registered nurses on the helicopter. an

00:28:53.650 --> 00:28:56.769
accredited provider for air medical services.

00:28:57.390 --> 00:29:01.029
And our scope of practice now looks nothing like

00:29:01.029 --> 00:29:05.390
our scope of practice in 1999. What are some

00:29:05.390 --> 00:29:07.789
of the biggest innovations that you've seen as

00:29:07.789 --> 00:29:12.829
far as the helicopter specifically? So we were

00:29:12.829 --> 00:29:16.430
flying in BOCAL, BO -105s, VFR, meaning visual

00:29:16.430 --> 00:29:19.410
flight rules. And you had a bunch of gauges and

00:29:19.410 --> 00:29:24.109
they all had little needles on them. We didn't

00:29:24.109 --> 00:29:29.089
realize how unsafe we were until we got into

00:29:29.089 --> 00:29:34.589
the new EC -135. The FAA regulations at the time

00:29:34.589 --> 00:29:37.029
were 500 feet and a mile, and we were flying

00:29:37.029 --> 00:29:41.130
that at night without night vision goggles. We

00:29:41.130 --> 00:29:44.269
were using landing lights to go into scenes at

00:29:44.269 --> 00:29:47.009
night, just going real slow, real deliberate.

00:29:47.430 --> 00:29:49.970
And, you know, we did it. We did it incident

00:29:49.970 --> 00:29:54.680
-free. being in technologically advanced aircraft

00:29:54.680 --> 00:29:57.759
that are able to go ifr with night vision goggles

00:29:57.759 --> 00:30:02.359
with all of the other things that that make the

00:30:02.359 --> 00:30:06.039
operation safe it's like holy cow how did we

00:30:06.039 --> 00:30:10.240
do that back then and i was in the aircraft a

00:30:10.240 --> 00:30:14.799
couple years ago front seat with a set of nods

00:30:14.799 --> 00:30:18.900
on and we were circling a scene i said i just

00:30:18.900 --> 00:30:21.680
want to see what it was like And I went off in

00:30:21.680 --> 00:30:23.480
nods after announcing it, and I'm like, holy

00:30:23.480 --> 00:30:27.319
cow. I mean, this was suicidal back then. And

00:30:27.319 --> 00:30:31.500
the industry is better for technology. As much

00:30:31.500 --> 00:30:34.259
as you probably don't want to hear the government

00:30:34.259 --> 00:30:38.440
is here to help you, they did help the industry

00:30:38.440 --> 00:30:41.740
a lot, mandating all of the different things

00:30:41.740 --> 00:30:48.019
that we now use. And I think we're all the benefactors

00:30:48.019 --> 00:30:49.559
of that, and it's definitely made the industry

00:30:49.559 --> 00:30:53.450
safer. Did you have any of these pilots that

00:30:53.450 --> 00:30:55.309
I heard a lot about, especially earlier in my

00:30:55.309 --> 00:30:58.630
career, that were former Vietnam turned to EMS

00:30:58.630 --> 00:31:03.349
pilots? Yes. Any interesting experiences with

00:31:03.349 --> 00:31:06.849
those particular people? You know, they all had

00:31:06.849 --> 00:31:10.630
colorful personalities. They lived through some

00:31:10.630 --> 00:31:18.109
stuff. Back then, we didn't know anything different.

00:31:18.700 --> 00:31:21.980
You know, so you'd pull the aircraft five feet

00:31:21.980 --> 00:31:24.920
off the ground, you'd nose it over, and you'd

00:31:24.920 --> 00:31:28.440
go burning across the ground until you hit 60

00:31:28.440 --> 00:31:32.400
or 70 knots and then pull in some collective

00:31:32.400 --> 00:31:36.279
and then just shoot up into the air. And we do

00:31:36.279 --> 00:31:39.000
things so much different now. But at the time,

00:31:39.000 --> 00:31:42.119
that was normal. And when we changed to an EMS

00:31:42.119 --> 00:31:45.940
takeoff where you hover above your... nearest

00:31:45.940 --> 00:31:49.039
object, then nose over. It was so unsettling

00:31:49.039 --> 00:31:51.799
because you hadn't done it that way forever.

00:31:53.019 --> 00:31:55.940
And we still do running takeoffs when it's really

00:31:55.940 --> 00:31:58.059
hot. We've got a lot of fuel and a lot of patients

00:31:58.059 --> 00:32:01.079
on board, but you're so accustomed to going vertical

00:32:01.079 --> 00:32:04.059
that when you do a running takeoff, it's like,

00:32:04.140 --> 00:32:10.079
oh God. I got to tell you, we have a mix now

00:32:10.079 --> 00:32:14.990
of about 50 % military and 50 % civilian. And

00:32:14.990 --> 00:32:19.029
they both have really good qualities. To be honest

00:32:19.029 --> 00:32:20.809
with you, though, getting in an aircraft now,

00:32:20.869 --> 00:32:22.329
I really can't tell what the guy's background

00:32:22.329 --> 00:32:26.329
is. Yeah, it's interesting to hear. I just heard

00:32:26.329 --> 00:32:27.769
it exactly like you're saying, you know, these

00:32:27.769 --> 00:32:29.650
crazy maneuvers they were doing. And they weren't

00:32:29.650 --> 00:32:31.809
even trying to, you know, be dicks or anything.

00:32:31.910 --> 00:32:33.750
That was just how they were flying in the jungles

00:32:33.750 --> 00:32:36.769
of Vietnam. Yeah, I mean, it was not uncommon

00:32:36.769 --> 00:32:41.150
during the day to shoot a descent towards a scene

00:32:41.150 --> 00:32:44.450
and just stand it up on its tail. and just slow

00:32:44.450 --> 00:32:47.470
the aircraft down and come in and set it down.

00:32:47.569 --> 00:32:51.369
And now that's like totally unheard of. What

00:32:51.369 --> 00:32:53.589
about from the EMS side? I was just talking to

00:32:53.589 --> 00:32:56.529
Dr. Peter Antevi a few weeks ago about whole

00:32:56.529 --> 00:32:58.910
blood now actually on ground ambulances, which

00:32:58.910 --> 00:33:01.950
is exciting, and all the successes they're having

00:33:01.950 --> 00:33:04.470
to the point where he said even people that are

00:33:04.470 --> 00:33:07.910
considering retiring are staying on because they

00:33:07.910 --> 00:33:10.509
want to be part of the success too. So what about

00:33:10.509 --> 00:33:12.789
from the EMS innovation the last three decades?

00:33:13.400 --> 00:33:15.299
I was telling an interesting story the other

00:33:15.299 --> 00:33:17.779
day. Somebody was saying, did you know you could

00:33:17.779 --> 00:33:22.180
give this medication nebulized? I'm like, well,

00:33:22.279 --> 00:33:25.779
back in the day, in a cardiac arrest, if you

00:33:25.779 --> 00:33:27.980
couldn't get an IV, we were putting epinephrine

00:33:27.980 --> 00:33:31.700
and atropine down an ET tube and in large volumes.

00:33:32.740 --> 00:33:35.420
And come to find out, we were actually harming

00:33:35.420 --> 00:33:41.880
people. And to go from that to video laryngoscopes.

00:33:42.859 --> 00:33:45.240
And we really thought we were doing a great job,

00:33:45.299 --> 00:33:47.799
you know, intubating people until we started

00:33:47.799 --> 00:33:52.039
quantifying data because of canes. And we really

00:33:52.039 --> 00:33:55.779
found out how terrible we really were. And video

00:33:55.779 --> 00:34:00.839
laryngoscopes has just made things so much better.

00:34:00.900 --> 00:34:04.400
Our first time pass rate is in the high 90 percentile

00:34:04.400 --> 00:34:07.480
now, where we really thought we were doing really

00:34:07.480 --> 00:34:10.340
good way back in the day, just doing visual.

00:34:12.199 --> 00:34:14.500
We've been carrying whole blood now for probably

00:34:14.500 --> 00:34:17.340
about six years. We're going to administer somewhere

00:34:17.340 --> 00:34:20.579
in the neighborhood of 500 units this year. That's

00:34:20.579 --> 00:34:24.699
what we're on pace to do. Made a huge difference.

00:34:26.320 --> 00:34:31.019
Without exposing a whole lot, we have just gotten

00:34:31.019 --> 00:34:37.139
a second grant to try and use drones to deliver

00:34:37.139 --> 00:34:40.619
blood where it takes ambulances a long time to

00:34:40.619 --> 00:34:43.889
get to. But it's too close for a helicopter.

00:34:44.949 --> 00:34:49.349
So, you know, a 20 minute urban response to a

00:34:49.349 --> 00:34:52.269
gunshot wound where we can launch a drone and

00:34:52.269 --> 00:34:55.710
have it fly at 70 miles an hour and drop an ice

00:34:55.710 --> 00:34:57.789
chest to an ambulance to be able to administer

00:34:57.789 --> 00:35:02.489
it. That's what we're working on now. You probably

00:35:02.489 --> 00:35:05.010
ask, why don't you put it on every ambulance?

00:35:05.929 --> 00:35:11.239
When you run an 800 ambulances a day. And they're

00:35:11.239 --> 00:35:13.559
in different capacities and they're getting off

00:35:13.559 --> 00:35:15.679
late. It's really hard to manage a blood program

00:35:15.679 --> 00:35:20.480
over four states. So we think that this drone

00:35:20.480 --> 00:35:22.940
project could probably be a good adjunct to that.

00:35:23.900 --> 00:35:26.719
I had Richard Browning on the show. He's the

00:35:26.719 --> 00:35:29.679
creator of, I forget the name of the company

00:35:29.679 --> 00:35:31.800
now, but if you've ever seen the guy, basically

00:35:31.800 --> 00:35:34.480
like an Iron Man suit, he's holding two jets

00:35:34.480 --> 00:35:38.079
in his hand and he's flying. And what really

00:35:38.079 --> 00:35:40.599
caught my eye originally is they did one for

00:35:40.599 --> 00:35:42.780
paramedics. So you think about mountain rescue,

00:35:42.940 --> 00:35:46.699
you can literally fly to the patient with just

00:35:46.699 --> 00:35:50.219
a regular medic bag and then package the patient.

00:35:50.260 --> 00:35:54.400
But the FAA won't allow you to fly a patient

00:35:54.400 --> 00:35:57.219
back. So the solution that they're proposing

00:35:57.219 --> 00:36:00.619
is a stretcher carrying drone. because that in

00:36:00.619 --> 00:36:02.780
theory would circumnavigate, you know, issues.

00:36:03.039 --> 00:36:05.519
And then the person follows a drone down and

00:36:05.519 --> 00:36:07.579
now that lands by the ambulance. And now you've,

00:36:07.639 --> 00:36:09.760
you know, I mean, literally saved probably hours

00:36:09.760 --> 00:36:13.340
in that particular example. So seeing whether

00:36:13.340 --> 00:36:16.019
it's a delivery of a medic, a stretcher, drugs,

00:36:16.159 --> 00:36:19.539
you know, whole blood, it's exciting to see,

00:36:19.579 --> 00:36:22.539
you know, arguably sometimes military technology

00:36:22.539 --> 00:36:25.719
being used to help people rather than kill people.

00:36:26.340 --> 00:36:29.079
You know, one thing I learned, probably halfway

00:36:29.079 --> 00:36:31.920
through my career, is never say, oh, you're never

00:36:31.920 --> 00:36:35.320
going to see that out in the field. Because you

00:36:35.320 --> 00:36:38.420
actually do see innovation in the field. Sometimes

00:36:38.420 --> 00:36:42.559
it's not at the pace that you want. But I don't

00:36:42.559 --> 00:36:45.960
think five years ago, anybody would be talking

00:36:45.960 --> 00:36:51.059
about drones and integrating into EMS. And now

00:36:51.059 --> 00:36:53.940
it's like, that's a lot of people are working

00:36:53.940 --> 00:36:56.690
on it. Yeah, that's exciting. It really is. I

00:36:56.690 --> 00:36:59.349
think, again, being shackled by, you know, A,

00:36:59.510 --> 00:37:01.369
the way we've always done it, air quotes, and

00:37:01.369 --> 00:37:05.130
then B, you know, protocol and procedures and

00:37:05.130 --> 00:37:08.030
red tape. I think COVID did a good example for

00:37:08.030 --> 00:37:10.860
it. good job, for example, with the whole telehealth

00:37:10.860 --> 00:37:13.920
element. And it really freed up, you know, telemedicine.

00:37:13.920 --> 00:37:16.539
I think that's another way we can help minimize

00:37:16.539 --> 00:37:18.940
some of the low acuity calls that we get called

00:37:18.940 --> 00:37:21.500
for and do a lot more treatment in place and,

00:37:21.500 --> 00:37:25.039
you know, medical consultations and even scheduling

00:37:25.039 --> 00:37:29.440
urgent care appointments and sending lifts and

00:37:29.440 --> 00:37:31.780
Ubers. I mean, again, all this technology, it's

00:37:31.780 --> 00:37:35.420
really going to help, I think. what they GMR

00:37:35.420 --> 00:37:37.420
refer to as a three -tier system. So you have

00:37:37.420 --> 00:37:39.219
your ALS, you have your BLS, and then you have

00:37:39.219 --> 00:37:41.619
your non -emergent. So I think between making

00:37:41.619 --> 00:37:43.679
the nation healthier and then helping the people

00:37:43.679 --> 00:37:46.760
with low acuity issues, I think we'd make a massive

00:37:46.760 --> 00:37:48.800
dent. And then that would give us more manpower

00:37:48.800 --> 00:37:53.320
to get to these higher acuity calls. And like

00:37:53.320 --> 00:37:56.860
you said, still have enough time to add the human

00:37:56.860 --> 00:37:59.219
element with the compassion and empathy rather

00:37:59.219 --> 00:38:01.710
than having dispatch. chirping in your ear saying

00:38:01.710 --> 00:38:03.550
you need to get available again and get to the

00:38:03.550 --> 00:38:07.349
next call. Yeah, that's something we just stuck

00:38:07.349 --> 00:38:10.230
our feet into a couple of years ago. Acadian

00:38:10.230 --> 00:38:13.949
is doing some of that telehealth and I don't

00:38:13.949 --> 00:38:16.750
have anything objective to measure it against,

00:38:16.849 --> 00:38:19.610
but I do know it does take a burden off the 911

00:38:19.610 --> 00:38:23.670
system. Absolutely. Well, you mentioned about,

00:38:23.730 --> 00:38:26.650
you know, oil rigs and then we'll get into the

00:38:26.650 --> 00:38:29.329
hurricanes in a little bit. Deepwater Horizon.

00:38:30.190 --> 00:38:33.510
you tell you are telling um you know that the

00:38:33.510 --> 00:38:36.269
person that that uh you rode with that one day

00:38:36.269 --> 00:38:38.070
i'm going to have your job now you actually have

00:38:38.070 --> 00:38:40.849
that job and now you're responding to oil rigs

00:38:40.849 --> 00:38:43.010
the very kind of journey that your father used

00:38:43.010 --> 00:38:45.670
to take so talk to me if you want to throw some

00:38:45.670 --> 00:38:47.929
some other incidents in first and then i'd love

00:38:47.929 --> 00:38:50.030
to obviously hear about that particular incident

00:38:50.030 --> 00:38:52.010
as well including the backstory because i don't

00:38:52.010 --> 00:38:54.110
think a lot of people know the full story of

00:38:54.110 --> 00:38:59.190
what happened yeah sure so um It wasn't very

00:38:59.190 --> 00:39:03.110
long into my air medical career that I got my

00:39:03.110 --> 00:39:06.489
first offshore call. And for you guys that don't

00:39:06.489 --> 00:39:09.750
know this, there's a large portion of the workers

00:39:09.750 --> 00:39:13.329
that go in on boats. And they have to get them

00:39:13.329 --> 00:39:16.469
off the boats a certain way because, you know,

00:39:16.489 --> 00:39:18.829
the boats heave and whatnot with the waves. And

00:39:18.829 --> 00:39:21.929
there's a thing called personnel baskets. And

00:39:21.929 --> 00:39:24.929
it's just this rope thing that's on this circular

00:39:24.929 --> 00:39:27.769
flotation deal. And you just step on it and you

00:39:27.769 --> 00:39:30.309
just hold on for dear life. And a crane picks

00:39:30.309 --> 00:39:32.369
you up off the back of the boat and hoists you

00:39:32.369 --> 00:39:38.269
150 feet in the air. There's a lot of our casualties

00:39:38.269 --> 00:39:40.469
offshore that are injured on boats. So one of

00:39:40.469 --> 00:39:46.690
my first calls offshore, first off, when you

00:39:46.690 --> 00:39:48.889
land on an offshore platform, it's not made with

00:39:48.889 --> 00:39:51.570
solid decking. It's made with grating. So you're

00:39:51.570 --> 00:39:54.349
walking, but you could see the water below you.

00:39:54.909 --> 00:39:59.170
So, man, I'm like a cat. Trying to get up. And

00:39:59.170 --> 00:40:01.809
they said, hey, the guys on the boat. I mean,

00:40:01.829 --> 00:40:04.750
you could see the boat heaving and rolling. And

00:40:04.750 --> 00:40:07.929
they got this personnel basket. And I've never

00:40:07.929 --> 00:40:12.070
grabbed on to anything tighter in my life. I

00:40:12.070 --> 00:40:14.110
don't understand how OSHA doesn't regulate this

00:40:14.110 --> 00:40:16.289
thing. Like, you're not tagged on. You're not

00:40:16.289 --> 00:40:18.949
secured. There's no door that locks. You just

00:40:18.949 --> 00:40:21.110
hang on. And they just put you over the water

00:40:21.110 --> 00:40:25.130
and drop you to the boat. And we got the casualty.

00:40:25.719 --> 00:40:29.159
put him on the personnel basket and put him on

00:40:29.159 --> 00:40:34.300
the back of the helideck. And I'm just flying

00:40:34.300 --> 00:40:37.500
back thinking, oh, my God, like I just did that.

00:40:38.719 --> 00:40:43.199
But after that first time, it just becomes normal.

00:40:45.599 --> 00:40:47.980
Contrary to popular belief, not a lot of people

00:40:47.980 --> 00:40:50.880
get really, really significantly injured offshores.

00:40:51.219 --> 00:40:56.329
It's mostly medical calls. Patients that fail

00:40:56.329 --> 00:40:58.170
to manage their diabetes, their hypertension,

00:40:58.429 --> 00:41:01.949
or have an acute issue like a stroke or heart

00:41:01.949 --> 00:41:05.670
attack. And at one time, we were probably going

00:41:05.670 --> 00:41:11.150
offshore about 80 to 100 times a year. So you

00:41:11.150 --> 00:41:13.429
got a good deal of exposure to it. You had to,

00:41:13.429 --> 00:41:19.130
a lot of times, enlist the help of the crew.

00:41:19.289 --> 00:41:22.829
And I will never, ever forget this one guy who...

00:41:23.280 --> 00:41:27.059
It was a cardiac arrest in the wheelhouse of

00:41:27.059 --> 00:41:30.099
this offshore platform. And there were probably

00:41:30.099 --> 00:41:32.579
20 or 30 workers. Now, you've got to remember,

00:41:32.679 --> 00:41:36.400
these guys work on the same shift. They eat,

00:41:36.480 --> 00:41:39.059
supper with each other every single day. It's

00:41:39.059 --> 00:41:40.539
kind of like a frat house, for lack of a better

00:41:40.539 --> 00:41:43.820
term. And their buddy just died. And they had

00:41:43.820 --> 00:41:49.559
formed this chain of chest compressors. And about

00:41:49.559 --> 00:41:52.280
every two minutes, each one of these guys' friends,

00:41:52.920 --> 00:41:55.659
was doing chest compressions and just rotating

00:41:55.659 --> 00:42:00.960
through it. We've all gone to homes where the

00:42:00.960 --> 00:42:04.519
family's really distraught. You see two or three

00:42:04.519 --> 00:42:08.679
of them. You got to imagine being in this offshore

00:42:08.679 --> 00:42:10.719
environment where they've worked with this guy

00:42:10.719 --> 00:42:13.539
for five, six, seven, ten years, and they just

00:42:13.539 --> 00:42:16.980
did CPR on them, and you load them up, and there's

00:42:16.980 --> 00:42:20.320
20 guys on the heliport just waving. They're

00:42:20.320 --> 00:42:23.969
on their knees praying. It's pretty dramatic.

00:42:25.389 --> 00:42:31.369
It leaves a mark on you. Absolutely. Yeah, that

00:42:31.369 --> 00:42:34.989
shared suffering I can imagine again on the oil

00:42:34.989 --> 00:42:37.210
rig. And then if I'm not wrong, they're pretty

00:42:37.210 --> 00:42:41.070
brutal long days too, aren't they? Yeah. Dad

00:42:41.070 --> 00:42:44.409
used to tell me it was not uncommon to work 14,

00:42:44.730 --> 00:42:47.869
16 hours a day or even 24 if something went really,

00:42:47.949 --> 00:42:50.590
really wrong. Back in that day, they didn't have

00:42:50.590 --> 00:42:54.579
shifts. Now they do. But deep water horizon,

00:42:54.820 --> 00:42:59.079
pretty interesting. So British Petroleum had

00:42:59.079 --> 00:43:02.739
this discovery way out in deep water. Had this

00:43:02.739 --> 00:43:07.539
huge modular drilling unit. They were doing a

00:43:07.539 --> 00:43:11.639
test to see if they could set cement in it and

00:43:11.639 --> 00:43:16.420
stabilize it. For whatever reason, they chose

00:43:16.420 --> 00:43:19.059
not to put the number of spacers needed to make

00:43:19.059 --> 00:43:21.800
sure that the... cement was in the right place

00:43:21.800 --> 00:43:26.840
and through a series of events that cement got

00:43:26.840 --> 00:43:30.340
destabilized you started having high pressure

00:43:30.340 --> 00:43:34.119
condensate and whatnot flowing back up to the

00:43:34.119 --> 00:43:39.320
rig there's this big giant device called a blowout

00:43:39.320 --> 00:43:43.199
preventer and for whatever reason batteries didn't

00:43:43.199 --> 00:43:46.460
work on it there's this thing called a blind

00:43:46.460 --> 00:43:51.650
shear that cuts the pipe and clamps it that way

00:43:51.650 --> 00:43:53.949
the rig can get away from the blowout that didn't

00:43:53.949 --> 00:43:59.170
work and when all of that hydrocarbon came back

00:43:59.170 --> 00:44:03.829
up it's blowing natural gas in the the ambient

00:44:03.829 --> 00:44:06.590
air there's no power lines that go out to these

00:44:06.590 --> 00:44:09.110
things they have massive diesel generators that

00:44:09.110 --> 00:44:11.949
generate their power when that hydrocarbon was

00:44:11.949 --> 00:44:16.110
inhaled by those diesel engines they just revved

00:44:16.110 --> 00:44:20.190
way beyond design limit The explosion started

00:44:20.190 --> 00:44:26.989
and a huge explosion rocked the rig where it

00:44:26.989 --> 00:44:31.010
killed, I believe, 11 outright. But there were

00:44:31.010 --> 00:44:34.809
a lot of people on that rig that either departed

00:44:34.809 --> 00:44:40.909
by personnel basket or they departed by jumping

00:44:40.909 --> 00:44:45.050
off the rig and they were scooped up. There was

00:44:45.050 --> 00:44:48.239
a... platform near it it was another bp platform

00:44:48.239 --> 00:44:51.340
called nakika that's where a lot of the casualties

00:44:51.340 --> 00:44:55.820
were going so i get this phone call one day that

00:44:55.820 --> 00:45:01.739
night of the wife of somebody that worked for

00:45:01.739 --> 00:45:06.539
us who was offshore on shell horn mountain and

00:45:06.539 --> 00:45:10.139
they had saw it so i called our comm center asked

00:45:10.139 --> 00:45:13.610
if they had this big explosion in the Gulf of

00:45:13.610 --> 00:45:15.969
Mexico. We called Coast Guard sector out of New

00:45:15.969 --> 00:45:18.929
Orleans. And they told us that there indeed was

00:45:18.929 --> 00:45:20.909
a huge explosion, that they were working it and

00:45:20.909 --> 00:45:25.130
asked if we had any medical aviation assets that

00:45:25.130 --> 00:45:28.170
we could send. I'm in Abbeville, Louisiana. The

00:45:28.170 --> 00:45:30.409
helicopter's in Lafayette. So we activated it.

00:45:30.469 --> 00:45:33.650
They flew to Abbeville, picked me up, and we

00:45:33.650 --> 00:45:38.090
loaded up all of the extra MCI supplies and whatnot

00:45:38.090 --> 00:45:42.119
and myself. Dale Ducote, Raymond Mouton, and

00:45:42.119 --> 00:45:47.099
Seth Gardner, we flew out to Nikika. And there

00:45:47.099 --> 00:45:49.380
were literally casualties all over the place.

00:45:50.059 --> 00:45:54.539
Part of our service, we provide medics to Bristow,

00:45:54.539 --> 00:45:57.699
who is another helicopter operator out there

00:45:57.699 --> 00:46:00.679
that does search and rescue for these big operators.

00:46:01.199 --> 00:46:05.320
And Bristow, at the time, was Cougar Aviation.

00:46:05.860 --> 00:46:09.280
They were there with an S -61. I forgot how many

00:46:09.280 --> 00:46:11.019
they loaded up, but they went to University of

00:46:11.019 --> 00:46:14.900
South Alabama. We had loaded up patients from

00:46:14.900 --> 00:46:19.679
inside the command structure, a blast proof shelter

00:46:19.679 --> 00:46:24.639
that was blown off of its foundation. And we

00:46:24.639 --> 00:46:27.739
took a couple of those guys over to New Orleans.

00:46:29.840 --> 00:46:32.920
I can remember flying out there with night vision

00:46:32.920 --> 00:46:36.570
goggles and we could see the flames. Some 60

00:46:36.570 --> 00:46:41.269
miles away with night vision goggles. We flew

00:46:41.269 --> 00:46:45.570
past it to go get fuel at a Murphy platform called

00:46:45.570 --> 00:46:48.349
Thunderhawk. I think we passed about seven miles

00:46:48.349 --> 00:46:50.010
away and you could feel the heat coming through

00:46:50.010 --> 00:46:56.070
the window. It was a hell of a far. So we worked

00:46:56.070 --> 00:47:00.329
that night. We recovered the next day. Obviously,

00:47:00.349 --> 00:47:04.619
we did all the TV interviews and whatnot. we

00:47:04.619 --> 00:47:06.619
still had the bristo assets and they were flying

00:47:06.619 --> 00:47:11.860
top cover when that rig started to sink and they

00:47:11.860 --> 00:47:15.920
were sending video feed back and we got to see

00:47:15.920 --> 00:47:21.619
it actually go underwater at that time we thought

00:47:21.619 --> 00:47:23.860
well we're finished it's it's over and done with

00:47:23.860 --> 00:47:29.320
and then this oil started coming up and not just

00:47:29.320 --> 00:47:32.719
a little oil like lots of oil And it started

00:47:32.719 --> 00:47:34.840
to come to the Louisiana coast. And obviously,

00:47:35.039 --> 00:47:37.460
it put oil all over Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana.

00:47:38.500 --> 00:47:41.099
Acadian has a group called Safety Management

00:47:41.099 --> 00:47:44.460
Systems, which is the oil field group that we

00:47:44.460 --> 00:47:46.599
have for medical safety and whatnot. And they

00:47:46.599 --> 00:47:50.940
were tasked with providing hundreds and hundreds

00:47:50.940 --> 00:47:55.179
and hundreds of safety techs, medics on site

00:47:55.179 --> 00:48:00.440
on the beaches. I would probably say they kept

00:48:00.440 --> 00:48:02.199
that thing in the middle of the summer or the

00:48:02.199 --> 00:48:05.460
end of the summer. Deepwater Horizon happened

00:48:05.460 --> 00:48:10.179
in April. Probably for about six months, we emptied

00:48:10.179 --> 00:48:13.980
out every clinical person we could to support

00:48:13.980 --> 00:48:20.860
that oil cleanup. The air med medics that were

00:48:20.860 --> 00:48:24.159
off duty would get off duty. They would run down

00:48:24.159 --> 00:48:27.539
there for two days. or we would work things out

00:48:27.539 --> 00:48:30.840
where we could back shifts, back to back, and

00:48:30.840 --> 00:48:33.579
the medics would work down there for seven days

00:48:33.579 --> 00:48:40.840
straight. It was a huge, huge endeavor. It seems

00:48:40.840 --> 00:48:43.559
like every time you hear about a big disaster,

00:48:43.639 --> 00:48:48.360
there's always this retroactive element of realizing

00:48:48.360 --> 00:48:50.880
that there were some corners that were cut. And

00:48:50.880 --> 00:48:52.400
then more often than not, you know, for money.

00:48:52.480 --> 00:48:54.260
I don't know if that was the case here, but I

00:48:54.260 --> 00:48:56.219
just watched a documentary on the Grenfell fire

00:48:56.219 --> 00:48:58.940
in London. And the cladding originally that they

00:48:58.940 --> 00:49:00.800
were supposed to use on the building was going

00:49:00.800 --> 00:49:03.920
to be zinc, non -combustible. And to save, I

00:49:03.920 --> 00:49:07.519
think, 5 ,000 pounds, they used this one that

00:49:07.519 --> 00:49:09.780
had petroleum products between two layers of

00:49:09.780 --> 00:49:12.599
aluminium. And it caused this inferno and took,

00:49:12.619 --> 00:49:15.860
I think it was 73 lives. So, you know, like you

00:49:15.860 --> 00:49:18.199
said, what was the reason for the spaces not

00:49:18.199 --> 00:49:20.320
being put in? Was it just oversight and pure

00:49:20.320 --> 00:49:23.320
accident or was it some sort of, you know, corner

00:49:23.320 --> 00:49:27.440
cutting? But the downstream effect is always,

00:49:27.480 --> 00:49:29.679
you know, an infinite amount, well not infinite,

00:49:29.880 --> 00:49:33.000
but numerous times more expensive than the original

00:49:33.000 --> 00:49:34.960
cost. And I would say it's the same, you know,

00:49:34.980 --> 00:49:37.820
in staffing in our professions too. People are

00:49:37.820 --> 00:49:40.420
cutting and cutting and cutting until... If firefighters

00:49:40.420 --> 00:49:43.199
die, you know, a helicopter goes down, whatever

00:49:43.199 --> 00:49:44.940
it is. And then they're like, oh, maybe we should

00:49:44.940 --> 00:49:48.000
hire more people rather than, you know, proactively

00:49:48.000 --> 00:49:50.019
saying, well, hey, let's learn from other people,

00:49:50.079 --> 00:49:52.800
other disasters and make sure it doesn't happen

00:49:52.800 --> 00:49:59.219
here. Yeah. The hearings with BP have well established

00:49:59.219 --> 00:50:02.119
that there were costs. There were cost issues.

00:50:02.360 --> 00:50:06.019
There were time constraint issues. They label

00:50:06.019 --> 00:50:08.579
this the well from hell just would never work

00:50:08.579 --> 00:50:12.219
right. And, you know, they're budgeted for certain

00:50:12.219 --> 00:50:15.280
times and budgeted for certain dollars and they

00:50:15.280 --> 00:50:18.260
were way over on cost. They were way behind on

00:50:18.260 --> 00:50:22.500
time. And there was some hierarchical bias where

00:50:22.500 --> 00:50:27.000
people just caved to the pressure of, you know,

00:50:27.000 --> 00:50:28.699
the time constraints and the budget constraints.

00:50:30.099 --> 00:50:32.219
Yeah, that's the important thing. I mean, this

00:50:32.219 --> 00:50:34.519
has already happened now. How can we learn from

00:50:34.519 --> 00:50:38.039
this? Whether it's staffing, whether it's wars

00:50:38.039 --> 00:50:40.219
that we seem to get in over and over again, whatever

00:50:40.219 --> 00:50:42.440
the thing is, again, it's not political, it's

00:50:42.440 --> 00:50:45.480
human. How can we learn from human errors in

00:50:45.480 --> 00:50:47.940
the past so we don't keep repeating the same

00:50:47.940 --> 00:50:54.079
mistakes? Yeah, unfortunately, I think time has

00:50:54.079 --> 00:50:58.300
a way of softening up some of those lessons.

00:50:59.280 --> 00:51:01.300
And then you become the victim of what we call

00:51:01.300 --> 00:51:05.340
normalized deviance, where you do things perfectly.

00:51:05.420 --> 00:51:08.780
And then one day you do it like this and you

00:51:08.780 --> 00:51:11.039
get away with it. And then you do it like this

00:51:11.039 --> 00:51:13.420
and you get away with it. And before you know

00:51:13.420 --> 00:51:15.900
it, then this becomes normal because you got

00:51:15.900 --> 00:51:18.500
away with it for so long. The space shuttle is

00:51:18.500 --> 00:51:22.480
a perfect example of that. Yeah, exactly. Well,

00:51:22.500 --> 00:51:26.039
that was the oil rig then. Let's talk about hurricanes

00:51:26.039 --> 00:51:28.019
because I know that you've deployed to many of

00:51:28.019 --> 00:51:29.760
them and obviously the part of the country you're

00:51:29.760 --> 00:51:32.679
living in, it's a frequent occurrence. Talk to

00:51:32.679 --> 00:51:35.019
me first about Katrina and then we'll love to

00:51:35.019 --> 00:51:38.679
explore some of the other ones. Yeah, so, man,

00:51:38.780 --> 00:51:43.440
we were in the convention center for EMS Expo.

00:51:43.500 --> 00:51:46.820
I can't remember which one, but either way, we'd

00:51:46.820 --> 00:51:48.960
been there since Wednesday. We had the Lafayette

00:51:48.960 --> 00:51:51.820
helicopter on display there. And we could see

00:51:51.820 --> 00:51:54.320
this thing coming. Well, they called for the

00:51:54.320 --> 00:51:57.659
evacuation on Saturday. And we extracted that

00:51:57.659 --> 00:52:01.460
aircraft on Saturday, equipped it, and we started

00:52:01.460 --> 00:52:07.099
evacuations Saturday and Sunday. Not just by

00:52:07.099 --> 00:52:10.719
air, but by ground. Lots of low -lying areas

00:52:10.719 --> 00:52:13.760
around there. So, you know, when a hurricane

00:52:13.760 --> 00:52:17.219
happens, it's all hands on deck until it ends.

00:52:17.519 --> 00:52:19.860
You know, there's no... and you're gonna work

00:52:19.860 --> 00:52:21.940
a couple days and then you'll be off you just

00:52:21.940 --> 00:52:28.000
you just work so we flew the last group of nursing

00:52:28.000 --> 00:52:31.659
home patients out of uh st bernard parish about

00:52:31.659 --> 00:52:36.300
four o 'clock on the afternoon of uh on the afternoon

00:52:36.300 --> 00:52:39.059
before landfall and there was this big giant

00:52:39.059 --> 00:52:44.980
projection tv had to be 60 inches or so and like

00:52:44.980 --> 00:52:47.159
the whole hurricane took up the whole screen

00:52:47.159 --> 00:52:50.360
when we were walking by it And I can remember

00:52:50.360 --> 00:52:52.480
going outside and we were having some 20 mile

00:52:52.480 --> 00:52:54.800
an hour sustained winds with some 25 mile an

00:52:54.800 --> 00:52:58.019
hour gusts. And I'm just thinking, man, I sure

00:52:58.019 --> 00:53:00.780
hope all these helicopters start because I don't

00:53:00.780 --> 00:53:03.940
want to leave one here. But we flew out with

00:53:03.940 --> 00:53:06.579
a flight of six. We recovered back to Lafayette

00:53:06.579 --> 00:53:10.079
and we watched everything unfold on the Sunday.

00:53:11.239 --> 00:53:14.500
And then the Monday, the levee started to fail.

00:53:17.099 --> 00:53:19.619
Got a phone call from Mike Sonier, who was in

00:53:19.619 --> 00:53:23.539
the comm center, like, Tuesday morning, y 'all

00:53:23.539 --> 00:53:26.559
are going out there. Myself and Tony Kramer,

00:53:26.800 --> 00:53:31.440
a flight of, I think we had six aircraft that

00:53:31.440 --> 00:53:34.780
were on duty at the time. We flew to Tulane Hospital.

00:53:36.619 --> 00:53:39.280
Tulane had all of its generators on the ground.

00:53:39.460 --> 00:53:42.039
The water had already flooded that. I can remember

00:53:42.039 --> 00:53:43.800
going to the administrator's office, which was

00:53:43.800 --> 00:53:47.139
on the ground floor, walking through water. to

00:53:47.139 --> 00:53:50.820
find out patient count, patient severity. And

00:53:50.820 --> 00:53:54.440
we elected to implement a triage system, which

00:53:54.440 --> 00:53:57.239
I'm glad we did. We took NICU patients out first.

00:54:00.760 --> 00:54:02.860
Because the elevators weren't working, we were

00:54:02.860 --> 00:54:06.940
hauling them in isolettes and going up the stairwells

00:54:06.940 --> 00:54:11.980
of the parking tower. Tulane did have a helipad

00:54:11.980 --> 00:54:15.199
and Mike Saunier and all of his geniusness that

00:54:15.199 --> 00:54:18.639
night. asked the two -lane security personnel

00:54:18.639 --> 00:54:21.400
to take the light poles off of the parking garage,

00:54:21.719 --> 00:54:25.460
which made a makeshift landing area. And at one

00:54:25.460 --> 00:54:27.820
time, we were landing six helicopters on that

00:54:27.820 --> 00:54:34.400
top floor at a time. And we pulled out all of

00:54:34.400 --> 00:54:38.920
the kids probably by one o 'clock. And then it

00:54:38.920 --> 00:54:42.659
was on to the next destination, which was Baptist

00:54:42.659 --> 00:54:45.679
in New Orleans. And for those of you who... You

00:54:45.679 --> 00:54:48.539
may have seen that was the infamous hospital

00:54:48.539 --> 00:54:54.780
where they so -called euthanized patients. But

00:54:54.780 --> 00:54:56.639
at that time, we were taking out the critical

00:54:56.639 --> 00:55:01.239
patients. And there were fresh cabbages, people

00:55:01.239 --> 00:55:04.440
still on ventilators, no medical records. They

00:55:04.440 --> 00:55:08.280
were out on the roof because the hospital was

00:55:08.280 --> 00:55:10.860
out of electricity. There were no operable windows.

00:55:10.980 --> 00:55:15.739
It was just stifling hot. There was no there

00:55:15.739 --> 00:55:18.320
was no like picking up the phone and organizing

00:55:18.320 --> 00:55:22.360
a transfer. It's like you got this guy and all

00:55:22.360 --> 00:55:27.059
he has is a wristband and a fresh cut and and

00:55:27.059 --> 00:55:30.679
he's being bagged. We were taking those patients.

00:55:30.980 --> 00:55:33.019
And you got to remember, there's a lot of patients.

00:55:33.139 --> 00:55:36.380
There was some estimates of 900 patients that

00:55:36.380 --> 00:55:39.860
was stuck in these hospitals and trying to transport

00:55:39.860 --> 00:55:43.530
them long distance. just takes assets away. So

00:55:43.530 --> 00:55:46.130
we were short hauling them to small community

00:55:46.130 --> 00:55:50.010
hospitals and rapidly getting people back and

00:55:50.010 --> 00:55:52.550
just constantly moving patients to Baton Rouge,

00:55:52.849 --> 00:55:57.170
Napoleonville, Napoleonville, Assumption Community

00:55:57.170 --> 00:56:01.230
Hospital, a lot of these small places. And we

00:56:01.230 --> 00:56:06.110
just did that for days, improvising, coming up

00:56:06.110 --> 00:56:10.130
with new ways of moving patients. until Friday,

00:56:10.190 --> 00:56:13.449
until we evacuated all of the patients out of

00:56:13.449 --> 00:56:19.030
the metro New Orleans area. Most of those patients

00:56:19.030 --> 00:56:22.829
wound up at the New Orleans airport. Now, the

00:56:22.829 --> 00:56:25.949
New Orleans airport became a marshalling area

00:56:25.949 --> 00:56:28.690
for the United States Air Force. And at that

00:56:28.690 --> 00:56:31.070
time, the Air Force didn't have that critical

00:56:31.070 --> 00:56:34.369
care capability. So anybody that was really critical

00:56:34.369 --> 00:56:39.099
stayed at the New Orleans airport. And on Friday,

00:56:39.139 --> 00:56:43.820
we began evacuating the airport. So it took us

00:56:43.820 --> 00:56:46.619
three days to evacuate the airport, five days

00:56:46.619 --> 00:56:49.780
to evacuate all of the patients out of the hospital.

00:56:50.679 --> 00:56:53.719
And at that time, then we would kind of just

00:56:53.719 --> 00:56:57.559
sit around and wait and rescue the rescuers that

00:56:57.559 --> 00:57:00.119
may have gotten hurt because there were no medical

00:57:00.119 --> 00:57:05.099
facilities in New Orleans. When I think back,

00:57:05.159 --> 00:57:08.039
I was at Anaheim Fire Department. I can still

00:57:08.039 --> 00:57:12.480
say it now, Station 6 in the kitchen. And we

00:57:12.480 --> 00:57:15.840
just had 9 -11 a few short years prior. And so

00:57:15.840 --> 00:57:19.099
many beautiful images came out of that after

00:57:19.099 --> 00:57:21.139
the fact, obviously after the tragedy of people

00:57:21.139 --> 00:57:23.639
coming together, the community. And that was

00:57:23.639 --> 00:57:26.059
kind of the message on the TV, as far as I remember,

00:57:26.119 --> 00:57:29.119
at least. When Katrina happened, I felt it was

00:57:29.119 --> 00:57:32.380
the opposite. And for example, there was that

00:57:32.380 --> 00:57:34.579
kind of undertone of, oh, they're just getting

00:57:34.579 --> 00:57:37.019
the white people out. And I remember one time,

00:57:37.099 --> 00:57:38.739
speaking of helicopters, I've talked about this

00:57:38.739 --> 00:57:42.900
before. I'll never forget this. Geraldo was effing

00:57:42.900 --> 00:57:45.500
and blinding. He said he's under this bridge

00:57:45.500 --> 00:57:48.739
and this family is still here. I was here two

00:57:48.739 --> 00:57:51.219
days ago and this family is still here. And I

00:57:51.219 --> 00:57:53.059
just remember looking at TV going, why the fuck

00:57:53.059 --> 00:57:57.099
didn't you take him out then? So it wasn't like

00:57:57.099 --> 00:58:00.400
the... outside of Louisiana, what we were getting

00:58:00.400 --> 00:58:02.920
the rest of the world, I found was a very negative

00:58:02.920 --> 00:58:06.179
report. Yet some of the Anaheim Five, one of

00:58:06.179 --> 00:58:08.480
our captains almost got killed with a wash from

00:58:08.480 --> 00:58:10.079
a helicopter to pick up a pallet and hit him

00:58:10.079 --> 00:58:12.300
in the head. So I knew that my friends were out

00:58:12.300 --> 00:58:14.239
there risking their lives alongside you guys,

00:58:14.400 --> 00:58:16.599
but it wasn't being relayed, I think, through

00:58:16.599 --> 00:58:19.460
a lot of the news stations. So talk to me about...

00:58:19.769 --> 00:58:21.670
You mentioned the euthanasia, like what were

00:58:21.670 --> 00:58:23.449
some of the fallacies that were being reported?

00:58:23.909 --> 00:58:26.309
And what was some of the actual heroism that

00:58:26.309 --> 00:58:27.889
you were hearing from the people on the ground?

00:58:28.829 --> 00:58:33.610
You know, I like to think. And I think that a

00:58:33.610 --> 00:58:36.829
lot of people would agree that that negative

00:58:36.829 --> 00:58:40.849
things go on the news a lot easier than positive

00:58:40.849 --> 00:58:45.090
things. And and I saw a lot. Now, you got to

00:58:45.090 --> 00:58:47.190
remember, I was separated from the TV for about

00:58:47.190 --> 00:58:50.599
about 10 days. But after the fact, I'm like,

00:58:50.679 --> 00:58:53.099
you know, there was some of that going on. You

00:58:53.099 --> 00:58:57.059
know, Chris Kyle shooting snipers and snipers

00:58:57.059 --> 00:59:00.019
shooting at helicopters. There was no helicopter

00:59:00.019 --> 00:59:02.460
that got hit. Obviously, there was a helicopter

00:59:02.460 --> 00:59:06.480
around and there was gunfire. We heard gunfire.

00:59:07.980 --> 00:59:13.599
But there was just so many acts of kindness and

00:59:13.599 --> 00:59:17.159
cooperation that weren't reported. You know.

00:59:17.690 --> 00:59:21.889
I'll tell you the story of the first kid. It

00:59:21.889 --> 00:59:26.269
was this young kid that had a heart surgery on

00:59:26.269 --> 00:59:29.309
the Friday at Tulane. And we brought her up.

00:59:29.329 --> 00:59:32.389
It was me and Tony Kramer. And mom and dad were

00:59:32.389 --> 00:59:36.510
there. I can say it because it's been published.

00:59:36.610 --> 00:59:42.429
Brandy and Steve Schaff. And their child was

00:59:42.429 --> 00:59:46.710
an infant. the child out we'll put them in the

00:59:46.710 --> 00:59:48.570
helicopter and we had to tell mom and dad there's

00:59:48.570 --> 00:59:51.730
no room for you and they're like where are you

00:59:51.730 --> 00:59:55.130
taking my kid so we told them and obviously mom's

00:59:55.130 --> 01:00:00.269
upset um but trying to defuse the thing you know

01:00:00.269 --> 01:00:02.829
i had i had hungry pilots and paramedics that

01:00:02.829 --> 01:00:05.170
were flying in and out i took brandy and i took

01:00:05.170 --> 01:00:06.670
steve and i'm like hey would you do me a favor

01:00:06.670 --> 01:00:09.489
i brought this ice chest could you make sandwiches

01:00:09.489 --> 01:00:13.769
and hand a coke or something to the pilots And

01:00:13.769 --> 01:00:16.190
you know what they did? They did it. And they

01:00:16.190 --> 01:00:18.250
did it with a smile, and it kept them occupied.

01:00:18.690 --> 01:00:21.150
And I made them a promise. As soon as I can find

01:00:21.150 --> 01:00:23.010
you a ride, I'm going to get you a ride out of

01:00:23.010 --> 01:00:25.469
here. And later that afternoon, there was an

01:00:25.469 --> 01:00:29.469
empty aircraft that was going back, and we put

01:00:29.469 --> 01:00:31.309
them in, and they were reunited with their kid.

01:00:34.429 --> 01:00:37.429
There was just so many acts like that that didn't

01:00:37.429 --> 01:00:44.489
get reported. that just come to mind that humans

01:00:44.489 --> 01:00:48.030
want to help people and they actually did. Were

01:00:48.030 --> 01:00:49.889
there some bad actors? Of course, there's bad

01:00:49.889 --> 01:00:54.610
actors today. There's bad actors in every place

01:00:54.610 --> 01:00:59.250
that gets reported. I just wish the media would

01:00:59.250 --> 01:01:03.750
find more positive stuff to push out to people.

01:01:04.460 --> 01:01:06.440
Yeah, well, there was so much. I mean, this is

01:01:06.440 --> 01:01:08.800
the beautiful thing about this podcast is I get

01:01:08.800 --> 01:01:11.000
to hear from the people that were boots on the

01:01:11.000 --> 01:01:14.340
ground, everything from natural disasters and

01:01:14.340 --> 01:01:16.940
some of the incidents that we talked about today

01:01:16.940 --> 01:01:20.719
through Iraq and Afghanistan and Syria and all

01:01:20.719 --> 01:01:23.199
these places where, no, these men and women are

01:01:23.199 --> 01:01:25.699
either from that country or deployed to that

01:01:25.699 --> 01:01:28.820
country. And the number of stories of kindness

01:01:28.820 --> 01:01:31.179
and compassion, because I always ask our soldiers.

01:01:31.840 --> 01:01:34.300
And it's amazing what our military does, wearing

01:01:34.300 --> 01:01:36.639
their uniform in these places too. But like you

01:01:36.639 --> 01:01:39.079
said, I always kind of state, you either have

01:01:39.079 --> 01:01:41.440
the kill them all, let God sort them out, or

01:01:41.440 --> 01:01:43.780
they're all baby killers. And in the middle are

01:01:43.780 --> 01:01:45.780
the human beings that are our rescuers, that

01:01:45.780 --> 01:01:48.960
are our war fighters. But we don't get that reported

01:01:48.960 --> 01:01:51.360
because it doesn't fit the narrative. And then

01:01:51.360 --> 01:01:53.039
the problem is, it doesn't matter if you lean

01:01:53.039 --> 01:01:55.539
one way or the other, it's the extremism at the

01:01:55.539 --> 01:01:58.590
end. that is the machine that we're feeding and

01:01:58.590 --> 01:02:01.010
they don't want to say they it's like it's not

01:02:01.010 --> 01:02:03.550
a conspiracy but the overall movement has become

01:02:03.550 --> 01:02:05.929
well if we talk about kindness and compassion

01:02:05.929 --> 01:02:08.070
and humanity well we're we're giving the middle

01:02:08.070 --> 01:02:10.469
80 percent of voice we don't want to give them

01:02:10.469 --> 01:02:12.329
those are the normal people we want to keep we're

01:02:12.329 --> 01:02:14.730
not going to sell newspapers or advertising on

01:02:14.730 --> 01:02:17.690
fox or cnn if we talk about the kindness let's

01:02:17.690 --> 01:02:20.630
talk about the nastiness so it's so great with

01:02:20.630 --> 01:02:23.010
this medium to simply hear stories and people

01:02:23.010 --> 01:02:25.300
like yourself are the ones that can tell us You

01:02:25.300 --> 01:02:27.559
know, what was actually happening down there,

01:02:27.679 --> 01:02:29.539
you know, regardless of what was being reported?

01:02:30.719 --> 01:02:36.019
Yeah. In regards to the the alleged euthanasia,

01:02:36.019 --> 01:02:39.019
I'll be very honest. I was in that hospital.

01:02:39.199 --> 01:02:45.059
I was not on that floor. I never integrated with

01:02:45.059 --> 01:02:47.619
anything that happened, but I was interviewed

01:02:47.619 --> 01:02:52.460
by Sherry Fink for the book about that hospital

01:02:52.460 --> 01:02:55.699
episode. And the subsequent documentary that

01:02:55.699 --> 01:03:00.780
went with it. And I got a, you know, they prosecuted

01:03:00.780 --> 01:03:04.300
that physician. She was acquitted. That was a

01:03:04.300 --> 01:03:06.119
political stunt by the attorney general's office.

01:03:06.420 --> 01:03:10.260
Everybody knows it. But I have to think that

01:03:10.260 --> 01:03:13.739
on that day when they made those decisions, which

01:03:13.739 --> 01:03:16.659
was the Wednesday. Remember, they've been out

01:03:16.659 --> 01:03:22.170
of power since Sunday. The windows. There were

01:03:22.170 --> 01:03:26.409
no opening windows, stifling hot. I really believe

01:03:26.409 --> 01:03:30.110
that lady provided the maximum level of comfort

01:03:30.110 --> 01:03:34.409
that she could up until the line. And did a few

01:03:34.409 --> 01:03:38.409
patients die? They probably did. Did she intentionally

01:03:38.409 --> 01:03:42.670
do it? I don't think she did that. Absolutely.

01:03:42.989 --> 01:03:45.349
If technology is keeping them alive and that's

01:03:45.349 --> 01:03:47.840
being robbed from them, then, you know. And you're

01:03:47.840 --> 01:03:49.639
back to the natural state of things and the body

01:03:49.639 --> 01:03:54.119
is either going to carry on or it's not. Yeah,

01:03:54.159 --> 01:04:00.179
that's my belief. And she was put in a tough

01:04:00.179 --> 01:04:03.480
decision, man. That was a tough, tough, tough

01:04:03.480 --> 01:04:06.820
thing to be in. And I think she did what she

01:04:06.820 --> 01:04:09.619
thought was right. And I think she pushed it

01:04:09.619 --> 01:04:13.420
right up to the line. Yeah, absolutely. Well,

01:04:13.460 --> 01:04:15.179
it goes again, it goes back to what we're talking

01:04:15.179 --> 01:04:17.300
about, the protocols and moral courage, what

01:04:17.300 --> 01:04:20.699
was right for the patient at that time. And that

01:04:20.699 --> 01:04:25.840
includes palliative care sometimes. Yeah, I tell

01:04:25.840 --> 01:04:32.860
you, Katrina taught us a lot of lessons. The

01:04:32.860 --> 01:04:36.320
company benefited from it, from learning that

01:04:36.320 --> 01:04:39.860
we needed infrastructure. And we're so much better

01:04:39.860 --> 01:04:42.260
for it now in all the subsequent hurricanes.

01:04:42.539 --> 01:04:45.280
We've got high -water vehicles. We have comfort

01:04:45.280 --> 01:04:48.860
facilities for employees. You've got to remember,

01:04:49.019 --> 01:04:50.780
when a hurricane hits an area, it don't just

01:04:50.780 --> 01:04:52.880
hit the civilians. It hits the paramedics, too.

01:04:53.119 --> 01:04:57.059
So it takes their houses. So we've got laundry

01:04:57.059 --> 01:04:59.480
facilities. We've got sleeping accommodations.

01:04:59.920 --> 01:05:02.739
That way, they can continue to live and they

01:05:02.739 --> 01:05:06.480
can continue to come to work to provide for the

01:05:06.480 --> 01:05:09.880
area that's been harmed. So that's all I want

01:05:09.880 --> 01:05:14.159
to learn from a lot of hurricanes. What about

01:05:14.159 --> 01:05:15.739
some of the other hurricanes that you had? What

01:05:15.739 --> 01:05:19.300
are other notable responses and rescues? Yeah,

01:05:19.320 --> 01:05:24.219
so, you know, no mystery about it. Louisiana

01:05:24.219 --> 01:05:29.340
is a Category 4 hurricane magnet. And just in

01:05:29.340 --> 01:05:38.989
one year, we had four strikes. You know, I got

01:05:38.989 --> 01:05:42.889
a person that works for me that is going to take

01:05:42.889 --> 01:05:47.309
my place. And I messed up really bad and I learned

01:05:47.309 --> 01:05:51.530
a lesson. And there was a hurricane and and this

01:05:51.530 --> 01:05:54.710
person wanted to run it. And I'm like, let you

01:05:54.710 --> 01:05:57.710
run it. And there was some things that didn't

01:05:57.710 --> 01:06:00.849
go just right. And that was my fault. I messed

01:06:00.849 --> 01:06:05.329
that up because I wasn't there to to. assist

01:06:05.329 --> 01:06:07.489
and provide guidance so what i did learn was

01:06:07.489 --> 01:06:09.630
the next hurricane we could be screwed at the

01:06:09.630 --> 01:06:13.050
hip we're going to do this together and we were

01:06:13.050 --> 01:06:16.429
in lockstep the whole time and and she learned

01:06:16.429 --> 01:06:20.449
a lot and the next one she ran and and she's

01:06:20.449 --> 01:06:22.769
been running the air department for hurricane

01:06:22.769 --> 01:06:30.989
since then um they are a hurricane is is it's

01:06:30.989 --> 01:06:34.480
employee devastating to make a make a some sort

01:06:34.480 --> 01:06:37.880
of a relation to it. Not only do their houses

01:06:37.880 --> 01:06:40.719
get affected, but their families get affected.

01:06:41.579 --> 01:06:47.340
And the op tempo at work is very, very hard and

01:06:47.340 --> 01:06:51.500
very high. So there's a lot of aftercare that's

01:06:51.500 --> 01:06:55.239
required. Again, like I told you, like to operate

01:06:55.239 --> 01:06:58.340
in the gray. So we're not wearing, you know,

01:06:58.340 --> 01:07:02.570
normal uniforms. We're not. doing normal things.

01:07:02.869 --> 01:07:05.369
And when you get that freedom of doing that,

01:07:05.389 --> 01:07:07.309
then you have to corral them all back up and

01:07:07.309 --> 01:07:10.110
get them on the regular way of doing business.

01:07:10.210 --> 01:07:14.210
And that takes a few months after. But I got

01:07:14.210 --> 01:07:17.329
to tell you, in these things, our group really

01:07:17.329 --> 01:07:21.190
comes together and everybody, you know, people

01:07:21.190 --> 01:07:23.070
along the coast need to evacuate their families.

01:07:23.090 --> 01:07:26.150
So people that don't live near the coast are

01:07:26.150 --> 01:07:27.969
willing to work for them so that they can evacuate.

01:07:29.519 --> 01:07:33.019
Just a lot of teamwork. And, you know, everybody

01:07:33.019 --> 01:07:36.699
comes together for that. I've heard the rhetoric

01:07:36.699 --> 01:07:39.199
a lot in police and fire, you know, oh, the brotherhood

01:07:39.199 --> 01:07:42.280
is dead. And I disagree. I really do. I think

01:07:42.280 --> 01:07:44.579
that, again, that that is absolutely burning

01:07:44.579 --> 01:07:46.920
in us. Now, sadly, you know, you overwork and

01:07:46.920 --> 01:07:49.000
sleep deprive the group for a long amount of

01:07:49.000 --> 01:07:51.860
time. Maybe some of that compassion is burned

01:07:51.860 --> 01:07:53.579
out of people, but you give them the rest and

01:07:53.579 --> 01:07:56.219
recovery will definitely refine that. One of

01:07:56.219 --> 01:07:58.780
the things that I've seen, like my whole career,

01:07:58.960 --> 01:08:01.800
is people are already working a large amount

01:08:01.800 --> 01:08:04.420
of hours. Someone's going to get hit with a mandatory

01:08:04.420 --> 01:08:06.039
overtime. They'll be like, I'll just take it

01:08:06.039 --> 01:08:09.039
for you. Go be home with your kid. So I see that

01:08:09.039 --> 01:08:11.159
over and over again. But the problem is it's

01:08:11.159 --> 01:08:12.980
then thrown back in people's faces because they'll

01:08:12.980 --> 01:08:14.539
be like, oh, well, they only had this amount

01:08:14.539 --> 01:08:17.020
of mandatory overtime. So they would have had

01:08:17.020 --> 01:08:19.840
a lot more. But because of the kind of people

01:08:19.840 --> 01:08:22.119
that you've got in your department, they're jumping

01:08:22.119 --> 01:08:24.260
on the grenade for their men and women so they

01:08:24.260 --> 01:08:29.170
can go home. Yeah. One thing that I've got to

01:08:29.170 --> 01:08:33.390
see, it used to be just me. I was the only manager

01:08:33.390 --> 01:08:36.130
of the department. And now since we've gone to

01:08:36.130 --> 01:08:39.770
dual provider and accreditation and so on, we've

01:08:39.770 --> 01:08:43.270
had to expand that management structure. And

01:08:43.270 --> 01:08:47.189
when you have a hurricane that hits and it's

01:08:47.189 --> 01:08:50.010
really, really bad, the whole management team

01:08:50.010 --> 01:08:54.739
is in that area. And it's usually where we have

01:08:54.739 --> 01:08:57.600
a helicopter, and it usually affects operations.

01:08:58.180 --> 01:09:03.479
We've lost three stations in about the last seven

01:09:03.479 --> 01:09:06.899
years where it just completely just mows everything

01:09:06.899 --> 01:09:13.159
down. And having to get operations back up, these

01:09:13.159 --> 01:09:17.579
guys are just like, they're awesome. They pull

01:09:17.579 --> 01:09:20.710
together. They just get it done. We've done it

01:09:20.710 --> 01:09:22.989
so much now where you don't need to point and

01:09:22.989 --> 01:09:28.210
tell. It's just automatic. It's just do. What

01:09:28.210 --> 01:09:30.149
do your shifts and work weeks look like now?

01:09:30.210 --> 01:09:32.409
You talked about the increasing op tempo. For

01:09:32.409 --> 01:09:36.609
the pilots and or the medics, how many hours

01:09:36.609 --> 01:09:38.670
are they working a day and then how many hours

01:09:38.670 --> 01:09:44.670
a week? We're on a modified 24 -48. It's a regular

01:09:44.670 --> 01:09:48.350
24 -48. They swap all Fridays and Thursdays.

01:09:49.180 --> 01:09:52.319
Pilots on a six -day schedule where they work

01:09:52.319 --> 01:09:55.899
12 -hour shifts. Midweek, they swap from days

01:09:55.899 --> 01:09:59.880
to nights. The medics generally and the nurses

01:09:59.880 --> 01:10:03.380
are generally reporting at 5, 6, 7, or 8 a .m.,

01:10:03.380 --> 01:10:09.520
depending on what station. The op tempo is probably

01:10:09.520 --> 01:10:15.420
six launches a day per aircraft and capturing

01:10:15.420 --> 01:10:19.529
around 40%. meaning we do a lot of first response.

01:10:20.729 --> 01:10:25.770
Our comm center is the PSAP, Alliany, 911 rollover

01:10:25.770 --> 01:10:28.789
from all of these counties and parishes. So at

01:10:28.789 --> 01:10:30.930
the same time that an ambulance is dispatched,

01:10:30.970 --> 01:10:33.350
a helicopter is dispatched based on the acuity

01:10:33.350 --> 01:10:37.909
and the severity. So they're launching five to

01:10:37.909 --> 01:10:42.050
six times a day, and they're transporting two,

01:10:42.210 --> 01:10:45.850
two and a half patients a day. The issue with

01:10:45.850 --> 01:10:47.930
transporting these patients is whenever they

01:10:47.930 --> 01:10:51.770
transport one, they're usually out of the station

01:10:51.770 --> 01:10:55.630
for five hours or so. So it takes a long time.

01:10:56.149 --> 01:11:01.189
So we monitor crew times a lot. We allow them

01:11:01.189 --> 01:11:06.029
to call off, you know, no fault. Just you need

01:11:06.029 --> 01:11:08.010
to take a break, take four hours and get a rest.

01:11:08.670 --> 01:11:12.359
We monitor that very close. So we look for people

01:11:12.359 --> 01:11:16.399
that have higher than normal call -offs to see

01:11:16.399 --> 01:11:19.960
what kind of lifestyle changes or what activities

01:11:19.960 --> 01:11:21.560
at work that they're doing. We have a lot of

01:11:21.560 --> 01:11:23.420
people in school, so they're using up a lot of

01:11:23.420 --> 01:11:26.979
their time to study. So we try to offer them

01:11:26.979 --> 01:11:28.979
better solutions so they can be ready for that

01:11:28.979 --> 01:11:32.600
next call. You said two and a half patients.

01:11:32.699 --> 01:11:34.439
The half patient doesn't sound like it's worth

01:11:34.439 --> 01:11:36.020
taking to the hospital. They're already deceased.

01:11:36.659 --> 01:11:39.859
Yeah, that's a good one. I'm averaging things

01:11:39.859 --> 01:11:44.619
out. But 10 bases getting ready to open the 11th.

01:11:45.640 --> 01:11:48.659
Every station has four pilots, two mechanics,

01:11:48.920 --> 01:11:53.399
and six practitioners with some part -time people.

01:11:54.340 --> 01:11:57.899
So we've got a staff of about 100 direct reports

01:11:57.899 --> 01:12:02.380
and about 150 indirect. Metro Aviation is our

01:12:02.380 --> 01:12:05.239
provider of aviation services, so they provide

01:12:05.239 --> 01:12:09.399
mechanics, pilots, training, so on and so forth.

01:12:11.409 --> 01:12:16.649
So there's about 250 of us. The 2448, is that

01:12:16.649 --> 01:12:19.050
like literally one on two off? So it's like a

01:12:19.050 --> 01:12:22.789
56 hour work week for those guys? Correct. Okay.

01:12:22.810 --> 01:12:25.569
Because there is a movement happening now in

01:12:25.569 --> 01:12:28.409
fire and EMS. I mean, it's really taken off in

01:12:28.409 --> 01:12:31.449
Florida where, you know, for us, it was a recruitment

01:12:31.449 --> 01:12:33.949
crisis. It was all the health issues where we're

01:12:33.949 --> 01:12:36.369
actually starting. And this is early days, but

01:12:36.369 --> 01:12:40.359
it's happening. the 2472 to give these men and

01:12:40.359 --> 01:12:42.960
women a full 72 hours to recover from the ship.

01:12:44.119 --> 01:12:47.960
So tell me, so I've heard, does it require one

01:12:47.960 --> 01:12:51.439
extra set of crews? It does. It does. But what

01:12:51.439 --> 01:12:53.460
they're seeing, I mean, I don't know, it's interesting,

01:12:53.579 --> 01:12:56.100
you know, in your perspective, but in the municipal

01:12:56.100 --> 01:12:59.060
fire world, there's such a recruitment crisis

01:12:59.060 --> 01:13:01.859
now because like you said, the op tempo is just,

01:13:01.899 --> 01:13:05.569
you know, increased exponentially that. So many

01:13:05.569 --> 01:13:08.470
people are working their regular 56 already and

01:13:08.470 --> 01:13:11.909
then volunteer and or mandatory overtime. So,

01:13:11.909 --> 01:13:13.770
you know, more often than not, that's an 80 hour

01:13:13.770 --> 01:13:18.010
plus work week. And it's dissuading a lot of

01:13:18.010 --> 01:13:20.550
people from wanting to join the profession. Because

01:13:20.550 --> 01:13:23.130
when you look at it on paper in 2025, when you

01:13:23.130 --> 01:13:25.670
can access all this information, you have all

01:13:25.670 --> 01:13:27.829
the amazing stuff that we do. But then you have,

01:13:27.829 --> 01:13:30.310
you know, everything from how long you're away

01:13:30.310 --> 01:13:32.409
from your family to the divorces and alcoholism

01:13:32.409 --> 01:13:35.930
and heart attacks and cancers. suicides etc so

01:13:35.930 --> 01:13:39.670
between the health of the responder and um you

01:13:39.670 --> 01:13:41.750
know this the money saving element because you're

01:13:41.750 --> 01:13:43.590
paying everyone time and a half to fill these

01:13:43.590 --> 01:13:46.390
spots and you're breaking your people a lot of

01:13:46.390 --> 01:13:48.369
the progressive departments are realizing is

01:13:48.369 --> 01:13:51.270
actually you know proactive investing at the

01:13:51.270 --> 01:13:54.630
front you're saving money downstream interesting

01:13:54.630 --> 01:13:57.590
point so yeah but it's it's interesting depending

01:13:57.590 --> 01:13:59.729
on where you know obviously you're you're in

01:13:59.729 --> 01:14:02.399
a private sector as well but When you're a different

01:14:02.399 --> 01:14:05.100
geography, like what I just presented to California,

01:14:05.239 --> 01:14:07.199
it wasn't deliberately supposed to be that topic,

01:14:07.239 --> 01:14:08.859
but I brought it up in a conference because I

01:14:08.859 --> 01:14:11.640
was asked to speak and they were blown away.

01:14:11.819 --> 01:14:13.520
They're like, I've never thought about not working

01:14:13.520 --> 01:14:15.579
this, but this is a problem. Like you said, what

01:14:15.579 --> 01:14:19.199
worked 50 years ago doesn't mean it works now.

01:14:19.340 --> 01:14:22.460
This is the evolution of the industry. So, yeah,

01:14:22.579 --> 01:14:25.060
I think, you know, if we want to operate at an

01:14:25.060 --> 01:14:26.880
even higher level, there's a great opportunity

01:14:26.880 --> 01:14:30.079
to maximize not only performance, but health

01:14:30.079 --> 01:14:33.199
as well. After this podcast, maybe we can get

01:14:33.199 --> 01:14:34.880
together. You can point me in that direction

01:14:34.880 --> 01:14:38.880
of somebody that's doing it. Absolutely. 100%.

01:14:38.880 --> 01:14:42.399
All right. Well, then let's go to Burning Man.

01:14:42.659 --> 01:14:45.420
So that's how you and Boomer met. How did you

01:14:45.420 --> 01:14:47.239
find yourself from all these other things that

01:14:47.239 --> 01:14:50.020
we've talked about to being a medic in a music

01:14:50.020 --> 01:14:54.619
festival? So I'm just going to lay the groundwork

01:14:54.619 --> 01:14:59.260
so y 'all can see the dichotomy in it. Obviously,

01:14:59.279 --> 01:15:02.890
I'm Catholic. Obviously, I'm Southern. Obviously,

01:15:03.130 --> 01:15:07.409
I'm conservative. And now I'm in exactly the

01:15:07.409 --> 01:15:11.029
different place. And it is absolutely phenomenal.

01:15:11.529 --> 01:15:16.770
I will tell anybody that wants to try something

01:15:16.770 --> 01:15:20.550
new, you ought to try Burning Man. One day I

01:15:20.550 --> 01:15:23.869
was flipping through something and I ran into

01:15:23.869 --> 01:15:29.149
a guy that I kind of knew. And he was talking

01:15:29.149 --> 01:15:30.729
about, hey, we're getting ready to staff up for

01:15:30.729 --> 01:15:34.329
Burning Man. I think it was 2017. And I reached

01:15:34.329 --> 01:15:36.670
out and that was the first year that I went.

01:15:37.609 --> 01:15:44.529
And I'm talking about I was I was I was blown

01:15:44.529 --> 01:15:47.510
away just walking in there. You know, you're

01:15:47.510 --> 01:15:51.350
in a desert that didn't nothing existed two weeks

01:15:51.350 --> 01:15:55.859
before. Now there's 70 ,000 people. And the music

01:15:55.859 --> 01:15:59.659
is, is there the, the freedom of expression is

01:15:59.659 --> 01:16:07.680
there. I mean, it was just overstimulating. And

01:16:07.680 --> 01:16:10.840
we ran a couple of calls and I ran into Mike

01:16:10.840 --> 01:16:14.560
and man, he's just Johnny on the spot. Like he's

01:16:14.560 --> 01:16:16.819
got his, he's got his kilt on. He's got his tight

01:16:16.819 --> 01:16:19.359
shirt on his big old bald head. I mean, he's

01:16:19.359 --> 01:16:23.079
really posing big muscle guy and he's just. just

01:16:23.079 --> 01:16:25.699
helping us and i just i just kept thanking him

01:16:25.699 --> 01:16:29.739
and then right before we got off it's eight o

01:16:29.739 --> 01:16:31.520
'clock at night remember it's my first night

01:16:31.520 --> 01:16:34.460
there still don't understand what's going on

01:16:34.460 --> 01:16:36.779
we responded to a guy that was a little weak

01:16:36.779 --> 01:16:42.140
he was on the ground um tall thin individual

01:16:42.140 --> 01:16:46.659
and i asked him to sit up took his bottle signs

01:16:46.659 --> 01:16:51.359
put the monitor on him we going ahead we sat

01:16:51.359 --> 01:16:55.250
him in a chair And challenged his vitals again.

01:16:55.329 --> 01:16:58.109
Everything was going well. So I said, well, let's

01:16:58.109 --> 01:16:59.869
do an orthostatic. Let's get him to stand up.

01:17:00.210 --> 01:17:04.189
And we stood him up. And while the blood pressure

01:17:04.189 --> 01:17:07.810
cuff is going up, he started braiding down. So

01:17:07.810 --> 01:17:10.869
we quickly got him to the ground. And he just

01:17:10.869 --> 01:17:14.550
skipped AFib altogether. He just skipped VFib

01:17:14.550 --> 01:17:17.449
altogether. He went from like a rate of 40 to

01:17:17.449 --> 01:17:22.880
asystole. And we're in this tent. It's dark.

01:17:23.699 --> 01:17:26.720
It's the David Hasselhoff tent. So there's a

01:17:26.720 --> 01:17:28.739
picture of David Hasselhoff that we're looking

01:17:28.739 --> 01:17:32.199
at. It looks like Michelangelo painted it. And

01:17:32.199 --> 01:17:36.060
we jump on it. And all of his friends are standing

01:17:36.060 --> 01:17:40.680
by. And we did a solid minute of DLS. And all

01:17:40.680 --> 01:17:44.659
of a sudden, he gets a heart rate back. And maybe

01:17:44.659 --> 01:17:47.340
20 seconds later, the guy opens his eyes, took

01:17:47.340 --> 01:17:50.890
a deep breath. and wanted to know what happened,

01:17:50.970 --> 01:17:52.590
and he wanted to get up. We wouldn't let him.

01:17:53.470 --> 01:17:55.869
So we put him on a stretcher. Mike's helping

01:17:55.869 --> 01:17:58.550
us, and we get back to the pack of the ambulance,

01:17:58.829 --> 01:18:01.930
and we went to load it up, and the stretcher

01:18:01.930 --> 01:18:04.909
would not, the legs would not fold underneath.

01:18:05.449 --> 01:18:07.489
There's so much dust at Burning Man, it just

01:18:07.489 --> 01:18:10.630
plays havoc with everything mechanical. So I

01:18:10.630 --> 01:18:12.670
looked at Mike, and I'm like, let's just grab

01:18:12.670 --> 01:18:16.430
the stretcher pad. So we grabbed it, and we put

01:18:16.430 --> 01:18:18.210
this gentleman on the floor of the ambulance.

01:18:18.840 --> 01:18:22.220
closed the doors, microed in with us. And there's

01:18:22.220 --> 01:18:24.180
a speed limit at Burning Man. Doesn't matter

01:18:24.180 --> 01:18:26.939
what's going on. It's five miles an hour. If

01:18:26.939 --> 01:18:28.680
you have 10 people in the back of your ambulance

01:18:28.680 --> 01:18:31.140
in cardiac arrest, you drive five miles an hour.

01:18:32.279 --> 01:18:37.939
And we were probably a half mile from the medical

01:18:37.939 --> 01:18:40.119
center. And it seemed like it took us an hour

01:18:40.119 --> 01:18:44.850
to get there. I saw Mike the rest of the week.

01:18:44.890 --> 01:18:46.850
We just jammed really, really good together,

01:18:46.989 --> 01:18:49.029
and I wound up giving him a Christmas ornament

01:18:49.029 --> 01:18:51.989
of an AirMed helicopter, and we just kept in

01:18:51.989 --> 01:18:55.810
touch. And I saw him subsequent years. This is

01:18:55.810 --> 01:18:57.729
the first year he didn't go. I really missed

01:18:57.729 --> 01:19:00.829
him, but a really great dude. Did you ever find

01:19:00.829 --> 01:19:05.029
out the underlying condition of the Brady? You

01:19:05.029 --> 01:19:09.489
know, we didn't, but we flew him out. So at Burning

01:19:09.489 --> 01:19:13.250
Man, you have a full -blown medical center. like

01:19:13.250 --> 01:19:16.470
I see level it's ICU level. It's, it's certified

01:19:16.470 --> 01:19:18.510
with the state of Nevada. We can do a lot of

01:19:18.510 --> 01:19:24.109
stuff. Um, but there's about 40 to 60 patients

01:19:24.109 --> 01:19:26.489
a year that we fly out to Reno. He was one of

01:19:26.489 --> 01:19:28.829
them. We did find out that he spent two nights

01:19:28.829 --> 01:19:31.970
in a hospital. He caught a plane and he flew

01:19:31.970 --> 01:19:39.430
back home fully functional. Amazing. Yeah. Yep.

01:19:39.949 --> 01:19:42.050
So all these times you've been at Burning Man,

01:19:42.210 --> 01:19:45.569
we can be the medical side or even just the sites

01:19:45.569 --> 01:19:47.550
themselves. What other things stick in your mind?

01:19:48.449 --> 01:19:52.050
Man, there's so much stuff at Burning Man to

01:19:52.050 --> 01:19:56.090
talk about. The medical care is excellent. It's

01:19:56.090 --> 01:19:59.289
absolutely excellent. We're running a mixed system

01:19:59.289 --> 01:20:02.649
right now. We were running all ALS. We changed

01:20:02.649 --> 01:20:07.609
to a mixture of BLS and ALS with ALS sprint capabilities

01:20:07.609 --> 01:20:11.010
to make a basic truck. into an ALS. That's worked

01:20:11.010 --> 01:20:14.069
really, really well. Seen a lot of devastating

01:20:14.069 --> 01:20:17.949
injuries. Seen a lot of just people just having

01:20:17.949 --> 01:20:22.670
a bad day and everything in between. I mean,

01:20:22.689 --> 01:20:26.310
everybody's heard all the bad things that happened

01:20:26.310 --> 01:20:29.010
at Burning Man, but there's so much good stuff.

01:20:29.390 --> 01:20:34.810
You meet people from all over. Obviously, the

01:20:34.810 --> 01:20:39.449
Israeli conflict right now is really big. But

01:20:39.449 --> 01:20:45.569
even when Israel and its enemies were going at

01:20:45.569 --> 01:20:48.649
it years and years ago, Burning Man has a way

01:20:48.649 --> 01:20:51.909
of placing camps next to each other. I like to

01:20:51.909 --> 01:20:54.909
say things that conflict work together. And I've

01:20:54.909 --> 01:20:57.210
been in the middle of Israelis and Palestinians

01:20:57.210 --> 01:21:01.569
now hanging out, talking with each other. And

01:21:01.569 --> 01:21:05.810
there was never no issue. A couple of years ago,

01:21:05.970 --> 01:21:09.710
there was a Russian camp. And it was right next

01:21:09.710 --> 01:21:13.729
to the Ukrainian camp. It's like people separate

01:21:13.729 --> 01:21:18.630
politics over there. And they're not really concerned

01:21:18.630 --> 01:21:20.850
about what the government's doing. They're just

01:21:20.850 --> 01:21:27.010
living in the moment. So many random acts of

01:21:27.010 --> 01:21:30.050
kindness. I can honestly say I've been treated

01:21:30.050 --> 01:21:34.609
much better at Burning Man. Not that I've been

01:21:34.609 --> 01:21:39.770
treated bad by the public. So much graciousness

01:21:39.770 --> 01:21:42.350
at Burning Man. They're so thankful that you're

01:21:42.350 --> 01:21:45.310
there. Not even people that are injured, just

01:21:45.310 --> 01:21:47.390
people walking and walk over and say, hey, man,

01:21:47.470 --> 01:21:48.989
thanks for being here. Thanks for taking care

01:21:48.989 --> 01:21:52.609
of us. That's amazing. It's funny you talk about

01:21:52.609 --> 01:21:55.109
that commonality. I play football, pick up game

01:21:55.109 --> 01:21:59.189
of soccer every Sunday. And it is such a diverse

01:21:59.189 --> 01:22:02.050
group from, you know, South Central America through

01:22:02.050 --> 01:22:04.970
to Europe. You know, there are Palestinians.

01:22:04.989 --> 01:22:08.840
I mean, Middle East, all. walks of life but we

01:22:08.840 --> 01:22:10.699
all go together because we like playing footy

01:22:10.699 --> 01:22:13.880
that's what binds us it doesn't matter of religion

01:22:13.880 --> 01:22:16.300
or you know politics or anything like that it's

01:22:16.300 --> 01:22:17.760
just a bunch of lads that want to play football

01:22:17.760 --> 01:22:19.859
and it's the same with this i mean how many times

01:22:19.859 --> 01:22:22.380
has music brought people together that we have

01:22:22.380 --> 01:22:26.180
been told are supposed to hate each other there's

01:22:26.180 --> 01:22:29.899
just uh so many little cool things like i really

01:22:29.899 --> 01:22:33.359
tell people if you planned and you had shelter

01:22:33.359 --> 01:22:35.720
and you had enough water you didn't bring any

01:22:35.720 --> 01:22:39.500
food If you planned it outright, you could live

01:22:39.500 --> 01:22:42.000
at Burning Man for a week. There's people that

01:22:42.000 --> 01:22:44.939
make food and give it away. People are very welcoming.

01:22:45.500 --> 01:22:49.100
I tell people to try everything twice because

01:22:49.100 --> 01:22:51.920
one camp may not be perfect. The other camp may

01:22:51.920 --> 01:22:55.500
have it knocked down. But there's so many good

01:22:55.500 --> 01:22:59.939
art installations to see. There's just so many

01:22:59.939 --> 01:23:04.520
different people, and it's worldwide. So many.

01:23:05.020 --> 01:23:07.880
people there to meet and hear their story is

01:23:07.880 --> 01:23:12.039
just you never want to leave it sounds amazing

01:23:12.039 --> 01:23:15.739
well mike obviously is very passionate about

01:23:15.739 --> 01:23:17.500
the mental health side i didn't actually even

01:23:17.500 --> 01:23:21.779
ask you yet as you sit here now in 2025 you know

01:23:21.779 --> 01:23:24.640
this 30 plus year career that you've had you

01:23:24.640 --> 01:23:27.159
know have there been any highs and lows for you

01:23:27.159 --> 01:23:29.760
on the mental health side and if so what are

01:23:29.760 --> 01:23:32.939
the tools that you've used to navigate that oh

01:23:34.069 --> 01:23:39.029
So, yes, I'm a firm believer if you do this for

01:23:39.029 --> 01:23:40.710
any period of time, you're going to be wounded

01:23:40.710 --> 01:23:43.750
in some capacity. I mean, like from the neck

01:23:43.750 --> 01:23:50.029
up. I know I'm a wounded individual. I think

01:23:50.029 --> 01:23:53.550
one of the key things to being a first responder

01:23:53.550 --> 01:23:59.590
and surviving this is self -awareness and knowing

01:23:59.590 --> 01:24:03.310
when you're on the X. And that X is an ambush

01:24:03.310 --> 01:24:05.529
point and, you know, life throws you all kind

01:24:05.529 --> 01:24:08.430
of ambushes and you have a choice. You can stay

01:24:08.430 --> 01:24:10.550
there and you can get shot or you can maneuver

01:24:10.550 --> 01:24:15.810
off the X. And I think key to being a first responder

01:24:15.810 --> 01:24:19.449
is knowing when you're on the X and maneuvering

01:24:19.449 --> 01:24:22.409
off of it and going get the help you need, whatever

01:24:22.409 --> 01:24:27.869
that help is. I've seen a couple of different

01:24:27.869 --> 01:24:30.250
therapists. I've tried it. I've tried different.

01:24:30.760 --> 01:24:36.239
types of EMDR, guided imagery, all kinds of different

01:24:36.239 --> 01:24:40.619
things. And they all play their role. But the

01:24:40.619 --> 01:24:44.779
number one thing I think that prevents serious

01:24:44.779 --> 01:24:50.779
mental illness from traumatic situations is not

01:24:50.779 --> 01:24:53.539
isolating. Having a support structure around

01:24:53.539 --> 01:24:58.239
you, whether it's friends, whether it's coworkers.

01:24:59.119 --> 01:25:05.140
whether it's family, not isolating, isolating

01:25:05.140 --> 01:25:12.199
compounds it and makes it worse. And I'm probably

01:25:12.199 --> 01:25:15.140
my worst enemy sometimes where I just want to

01:25:15.140 --> 01:25:17.800
handle it on my own, but I can tell a difference

01:25:17.800 --> 01:25:20.739
in my mental health when I'm actively engaging

01:25:20.739 --> 01:25:26.720
with people who I can relate to. I often tell

01:25:26.720 --> 01:25:32.079
people, Tell everybody, hi, good morning, thank

01:25:32.079 --> 01:25:34.560
you, something like that. Because you don't know

01:25:34.560 --> 01:25:39.640
who you walked off the edge. That edge could

01:25:39.640 --> 01:25:42.300
have been right there and you just pushed them

01:25:42.300 --> 01:25:46.340
back over to safety. Because you never know what

01:25:46.340 --> 01:25:49.960
other people are going through. Love it. I agree

01:25:49.960 --> 01:25:53.180
100%. You're getting ready to transition out.

01:25:54.510 --> 01:25:56.829
a lot for a lot of people can be jarring as well

01:25:56.829 --> 01:26:00.170
you know you've had this whole uh identity you

01:26:00.170 --> 01:26:01.890
know you've got this tribe you had this purpose

01:26:01.890 --> 01:26:05.010
what are your projections of your transition

01:26:05.010 --> 01:26:08.250
and what are you going to next you know to be

01:26:08.250 --> 01:26:12.329
honest with you i'm a little nervous um but i

01:26:12.329 --> 01:26:16.329
did grasp on to a navy i'm really big in the

01:26:16.329 --> 01:26:18.930
special warfare and listen a lot of podcasts

01:26:18.930 --> 01:26:22.890
especially resiliency And Andy Stumpf, who was

01:26:22.890 --> 01:26:26.770
a Team 6 guy, whenever he was going through it,

01:26:26.789 --> 01:26:31.210
he's like, being a SEAL, that was a part of my

01:26:31.210 --> 01:26:36.149
life. I'm not a SEAL. Being a first responder

01:26:36.149 --> 01:26:40.369
was part of my life. It was a large part, but

01:26:40.369 --> 01:26:45.930
it doesn't define who I am. I'm getting ready

01:26:45.930 --> 01:26:48.710
to enter a new role in my life, and I don't know

01:26:48.710 --> 01:26:51.850
where that role is going to take me. But I'm

01:26:51.850 --> 01:26:55.770
a little nervous, but I got a good support structure

01:26:55.770 --> 01:26:59.810
around me and I know it's going to be fine. Yes,

01:26:59.909 --> 01:27:02.029
I'm leaving Acadian, but I'm not leaving EMS.

01:27:02.069 --> 01:27:06.630
I'm going to stay credentialed until I can't

01:27:06.630 --> 01:27:09.510
credential again and still do special work, you

01:27:09.510 --> 01:27:12.970
know, Burning Man, special events, disaster work.

01:27:13.050 --> 01:27:15.770
So I'll still stay a little involved. Beautiful.

01:27:16.470 --> 01:27:18.189
Well, I want to throw some closing questions

01:27:18.189 --> 01:27:21.609
at you before I let you go. That's OK. Yeah.

01:27:21.750 --> 01:27:24.050
All right. The first one I love to ask, is there

01:27:24.050 --> 01:27:26.689
a book or other books that you love to recommend?

01:27:26.770 --> 01:27:29.310
It can be related to our discussion today or

01:27:29.310 --> 01:27:34.189
completely unrelated. Yeah. So Kyle Carpenter,

01:27:34.329 --> 01:27:40.449
Kyle Carpenter was a was a Marine and he put

01:27:40.449 --> 01:27:44.390
himself on a grenade to save his. his buddies

01:27:44.390 --> 01:27:49.989
and it's a remarkable book about resiliency and

01:27:49.989 --> 01:27:55.310
coming back and just never quitting it made so

01:27:55.310 --> 01:27:57.229
much of an impact on me when i went to mount

01:27:57.229 --> 01:28:02.850
everest 2022 i went to everest base camp i carried

01:28:02.850 --> 01:28:06.289
an american flag and had kyle's name on it just

01:28:06.289 --> 01:28:12.520
to remind me of how How bad he was injured and

01:28:12.520 --> 01:28:15.340
eight months later, he ran the Marine Corps Marathon.

01:28:15.680 --> 01:28:18.260
And if Kyle can do that, like just a few months

01:28:18.260 --> 01:28:20.119
before that, it took him 10 minutes to put on

01:28:20.119 --> 01:28:24.060
each sock. Like if Kyle can do that, then I can

01:28:24.060 --> 01:28:30.399
do this. So that was a really, really good book.

01:28:30.840 --> 01:28:35.239
The other book that I live and die by is Jocko

01:28:35.239 --> 01:28:41.239
Willick and Leif Babin, Extreme Ownership. Everything

01:28:41.239 --> 01:28:45.979
is my responsibility. And how do I, as a leader,

01:28:46.060 --> 01:28:51.060
take ownership to prevent the next incident or

01:28:51.060 --> 01:28:55.159
the next person from resigning or whatever that

01:28:55.159 --> 01:28:58.920
case is? Extreme ownership is just great. And

01:28:58.920 --> 01:29:03.289
I live it. Love it. Yeah. I've had Jocko and

01:29:03.289 --> 01:29:05.569
Leif both on the show. And then Kyle actually

01:29:05.569 --> 01:29:07.149
is someone I've been meaning to reach out to

01:29:07.149 --> 01:29:08.670
because I know he's a Medal of Honor recipient.

01:29:08.829 --> 01:29:12.350
So I had one of the guys that put together the

01:29:12.350 --> 01:29:14.550
Medal of Honor Museum come on the show not too

01:29:14.550 --> 01:29:16.890
long ago. So, yeah, I need to reach out to him.

01:29:17.310 --> 01:29:23.949
What about films and documentaries? So I like

01:29:23.949 --> 01:29:28.130
to go down the YouTube rabbit hole and just see

01:29:28.130 --> 01:29:31.300
where it takes me. But invariably. It always

01:29:31.300 --> 01:29:40.180
takes me back to Jocko's page, Andy Stumpf, some

01:29:40.180 --> 01:29:45.500
Eric Prince things, a lot of military documentaries

01:29:45.500 --> 01:29:52.380
I really, really enjoy. Film? I'm a Top Gun fan,

01:29:52.520 --> 01:29:57.600
man. I really, really enjoy Top Gun. Anything

01:29:57.600 --> 01:30:02.039
by... quentin tarantino i really enjoy i'm a

01:30:02.039 --> 01:30:08.859
pulp fiction addict it's amazing yeah i had a

01:30:08.859 --> 01:30:11.680
john travolta on the show a while ago now but

01:30:11.680 --> 01:30:15.300
um you know through my eyes you saw him in all

01:30:15.300 --> 01:30:18.380
the 70s films and then i hadn't kind of really

01:30:18.380 --> 01:30:21.100
been exposed to much of his his work and then

01:30:21.100 --> 01:30:23.000
when pulp fiction came out we were like wait

01:30:23.000 --> 01:30:25.880
a second that's The same guy from Saturday Night

01:30:25.880 --> 01:30:28.819
Fever. Amazing. So, yeah, great, great film.

01:30:29.239 --> 01:30:32.000
Yeah. All right. Well, then the next question,

01:30:32.079 --> 01:30:33.920
is there a person that you'd recommend to come

01:30:33.920 --> 01:30:36.880
on this podcast as a guest to speak to the first

01:30:36.880 --> 01:30:38.939
responders, military and associated professions

01:30:38.939 --> 01:30:46.579
of the world? Yes. And he was a former medical

01:30:46.579 --> 01:30:52.579
director of ours. He's board certified in psychiatry

01:30:52.579 --> 01:30:56.770
and neurology. And Dr. Ross Giudice, he was our

01:30:56.770 --> 01:31:03.229
medical director from the late 90s to 2010. And

01:31:03.229 --> 01:31:06.189
y 'all are probably thinking, why did Acadian

01:31:06.189 --> 01:31:08.409
Ambulance have a psychiatrist as a medical director?

01:31:08.689 --> 01:31:12.670
He was absolutely the right person at the right

01:31:12.670 --> 01:31:18.710
time. And what an awesome guy. Really great dude.

01:31:18.850 --> 01:31:21.760
And I'll be happy to connect you with him. That

01:31:21.760 --> 01:31:24.119
would be amazing. Thank you so much. All right.

01:31:24.119 --> 01:31:25.840
Well, then the last question before we make sure

01:31:25.840 --> 01:31:28.020
everyone knows where to find you and Alcadian

01:31:28.020 --> 01:31:35.319
as well. What do you do to decompress? So I've

01:31:35.319 --> 01:31:41.939
got a Harley Davidson. Love to ride. I've got

01:31:41.939 --> 01:31:47.840
a camp out in the marsh that, you know, you have

01:31:47.840 --> 01:31:50.720
to take a boat to get to. And it's very limited

01:31:50.720 --> 01:32:00.600
on electronics. Honestly, spending time at work.

01:32:01.500 --> 01:32:10.000
I just find work is not work. It's more of a

01:32:10.000 --> 01:32:16.159
passion. And I like my team a lot. I feel comfort

01:32:16.159 --> 01:32:20.649
with them. And I'm going to miss them a lot.

01:32:21.170 --> 01:32:22.989
But I know I'll always be able to pick up the

01:32:22.989 --> 01:32:26.289
phone and give them a shout, too. They're going

01:32:26.289 --> 01:32:28.149
to inherit something really great, and they're

01:32:28.149 --> 01:32:29.569
going to probably make it a lot better than when

01:32:29.569 --> 01:32:33.029
I had it. Brilliant. That's the goal, isn't it?

01:32:34.590 --> 01:32:37.010
Always make everything better, man. No matter

01:32:37.010 --> 01:32:39.670
if you have work or, I mean, hell, that's why

01:32:39.670 --> 01:32:44.800
I call it a home improvement store. Well, for

01:32:44.800 --> 01:32:46.460
people listening then, if they want to reach

01:32:46.460 --> 01:32:48.960
out to you, learn more about you or Acadian,

01:32:49.039 --> 01:32:52.060
where are the best places online? Hey, so I'm

01:32:52.060 --> 01:32:57.819
on Facebook, Mark Cresswell. I don't know if

01:32:57.819 --> 01:33:01.960
anybody does this, but do reach out 337 -298

01:33:01.960 --> 01:33:05.720
-0487. I'm happy to talk to you. I'm happy to

01:33:05.720 --> 01:33:09.340
talk to you if you're having a really bad day.

01:33:10.920 --> 01:33:13.180
So if you feel like you're up against that wall,

01:33:13.710 --> 01:33:17.869
I love to talk to you. Beautiful. Well, I want

01:33:17.869 --> 01:33:19.689
to thank you so much, Mark. It's been such an

01:33:19.689 --> 01:33:22.109
amazing conversation, such an interesting career.

01:33:22.489 --> 01:33:24.430
And some of these kind of perspectives, you know,

01:33:24.449 --> 01:33:28.010
we rarely get to hear about. But good luck with

01:33:28.010 --> 01:33:30.310
the transition. Thank you so, so much for being

01:33:30.310 --> 01:33:32.750
so generous with your time and coming on the

01:33:32.750 --> 01:33:35.390
Behind the Shield podcast today. Yeah, man. Thanks

01:33:35.390 --> 01:33:36.689
for having me. It was a pleasure. This is my

01:33:36.689 --> 01:33:37.050
first one.