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I'll spell that to you because it's not as you
think, T -E -A -M -B -U -I -L -D -R .com. Welcome
to the Bionish Shield podcast. As always, my
name is James Geering and this week it is my
absolute honor to welcome on the show Canadian
Border Services Officer and the man behind the
10 -8 podcast, Christian Lane. Now in this conversation
we discuss a host of topics from his journey
into law enforcement, the multiple roles he held
as he progressed through the ranks, immigration,
drug prohibition, human trafficking, transition,
and so much more. Now, before we get to this
incredible conversation, as I say every week,
please just take a moment, go to whichever app
you listen to this on, subscribe to the show.
Leave feedback and leave a rating. Every single
five -star rating truly does elevate this podcast,
therefore making it easier for others to find.
And this is a free library of over 1 ,100 episodes
now. So all I ask in return is that you help
share these incredible men and women's stories
so I can get them to every single person on planet
Earth who needs to hear them. So with that being
said... I introduce to you Christian Lane. Enjoy.
Well, Christian, I want to start by saying two
things. Firstly, thank you to our mutual friend,
Steve Farina, for connecting us. And secondly,
to welcome you onto the Behind the Shield podcast
today. Well, thank you very much, James. It's
an absolute honor to be here. Full disclosure,
I obviously wanted to prepare myself a little
bit, so I gave a few episodes a listen, and I
was tickled to hear Thanos. um on one of the
episodes uh josh brolin you had on uh which is
fantastic i'm a huge marvel fan um and and i
think josh brolin's just terrific actor anyway
but it was really really cool to hear to hear
him on and and hear um you know the galaxy's
uh most hideous villain um coming live and live
and in person on the on the behind the shield
podcast and steve's just a beautiful person he's
a beautiful human being i i had the pleasure
of interviewing him on my show uh some years
back and uh and we've stayed connected ever since
so i'm grateful to him uh for the connection
with you absolutely and likewise all right well
then very first question where on planet earth
are we finding you this afternoon At the moment,
you find me in the beautiful Fraser Valley, British
Columbia, just about an hour and a bit east of
Vancouver, which most, well, I would hope most
American listeners are familiar with. We've hosted
the Olympics and Expo and all manner of other
events. But yeah, just an hour east, sort of
a suburb bedroom community of Vancouver, but
soon to be relocating to Vancouver Island, an
even more beautiful place to live in BC. Beautiful.
Well, I hope most Americans know Vancouver for
the Groover from Vancouver, Brian Adams, who
I think is probably your national treasure. So,
okay, you're kind of dating yourself a little
bit with the Brian Adams reference. But yeah,
you're absolutely right. The Groover from Vancouver,
also home to Michael Bublé and the great Ryan
Reynolds, who incidentally I went to high school
with. He was two grades back of me, but we were
definitely in the same high school together.
He was in my sister's grade. Lovely to see a
Kitsilano secondary alumni making it as far and
as famous as he's made it. Brilliant. What does
your sister remember, if anything? Was he a kind
of class clown back then or was it kind of late
blooming? He was definitely a theater kid. She
was very much into the performing arts. I tried
to go the sports path. We can talk about that
a little later on. I shouldn't have. I'm more
into the creativity and theatrical side of things,
as it turns out. But no, he was very much a theater
kid. And one of those talents that I think everybody
knew was going to go somewhere. It wasn't just
a mom and dad sweetheart. playing roles in in
community plays and school plays and that sort
of thing that you could tell you could tell he
had he had something brilliant all right well
let's go to your early life then so tell me where
you were born and tell me a little bit about
your family dynamic what your parents did how
many siblings okay uh so i was born and raised
in vancouver british columbia um to My father,
who was English born, moved to Canada with his
folks at about the age of 11. His dad, my grandfather,
a World War II veteran, flew from 39 to 45 in
the RAF. Survived as a navigator on board Lancaster,
survived every sortie he'd flown, which statistically
is... It certainly runs counter to the survival
rates for most flyers during that war. And my
mom, Canadian born, born to parents of Scottish
and Irish ancestry. So I'm a true British mutt
through and through. And I have a younger sister,
as I mentioned. We're 18 months apart. It was
funny. I was chatting with my mom. We speak daily
and she was sharing this story with me about
when my sister was born and I was 18 months old.
So, you know, a year and a half can't be too
faulted for my actions at the time, but I was
not happy that my sister was around. This was
not a welcome experience in my life, evidently.
And I made it very, very well known to my mother
in particular that I was very displeased with.
The three of us being disrupted by a fourth.
You know, in terms of family dynamics, my parents
divorced when I was 10 or 11 years old. And my
dad in particular was, I'm putting this very
delicately, but he's no longer with us. He passed
away in 2017, but he was a very difficult individual.
You've heard the expression, hurt people, hurt
people. Yes. Yeah. My dad was hurting a lot,
a lot. And that framed a childhood for me and
my sister. And I won't speak for her experience
because this is the interesting thing about family
dynamics is two children can grow up in the exact
same home and the exact same address, experience
the exact same. circumstances at home but they're
seeing it very very differently like their life
that they lead is very different than their siblings
life so i don't want to speak for her uh she
and i talk about this a fair bit and and uh but
but but dad was dad was dad was not easy to be
around he um at his best it was usually after
he smoked a joint um out the garage he was you
know doing puttering or whatever he was doing
in the garage and then he'd come back in and
He was in much better spirits, but more often
than not, something was going on in his life,
something was going on inside him that he didn't
like and didn't know how to address in a healthy
way. He visited that typically out through anger
and aggression and physical and emotional abuse
to me, my sister, and my mom. Grew up in a home
that certainly had its share of domestic violence.
And that kind of set the foundation for, you
know, as it does for all of us, right? When we're
growing up, we're learning how to be as human
beings. the number one and two teachers we'll
ever, we'll ever see in our lifetimes are, are
our first, are our parents. Right. And then a
little bit, our siblings and then school chums
and that sort of thing. So, you know, the foundation,
when the foundation's rocky, as I've learned,
when the foundation's a little bit rocky and.
you're building on top of that rocky foundation,
eventually everything is going to come down.
And as a firefighter, I'm sure you can appreciate
that too, or a former firefighter, I'm sure you
can appreciate that too, right? The houses that
are built on the shittiest foundations when they
go through a significant, you know, whether it's
an earthquake type event or a significant fire
or structure crisis, you know, they're going
to collapse. And that's kind of where I found
myself at 48 years old and change. But we can
get into that maybe a little later down the line.
Absolutely. Well, it's interesting because I
just last year wrote a book and I'm in the process
of making it into a TV show. And one of the main
themes is generational trauma. I think I don't
think and I've just had this awakening through
this podcast. I mean, it's not like I had this
figured out years ago. It's listening to all
these stories and then people on the psychology
side as well. But for example. there's a romanticization
of the World War II generation. And they just
came back and they rolled up their sleeves and
they got back to work. And then you hear about,
and I'll ask you about yours, but you hear about
many of these grandfathers in this case, and
they weren't okay. How can you be okay from coming
back from that and then just being thrust back
into society again? Clearly, as you said, there
were some issues in your dad's foundation. Have
you had any ability to unpack his upbringing
and some of those domino effects? To some degree,
yes, but largely no. It's an interesting question
because you're right. I think we have romanticized
the great generation. I'm not taking anything
away from what the men and women of that generation
did. and the sacrifices they made and and and
how how they stepped up and served i'm not taking
anything away but you can't i don't see how you
can go through a world war in however way that
touches you without being scarred and injured
whether physically emotionally or psychologically
or spiritually and um you know as we've evolved
as a society i think we're getting better slowly
by slowly by slowly at, at understanding those
kinds of impacts. But, you know, with, with my
dad's family, my, so my dad grew up with three
brothers and two adopted sisters eventually.
And one of, one of the, the eldest brother, so
my grandpa, when he went off to war, returned
to his first born not being his first born gotcha
and that was a that was a family secret that
was kept up until my my uncle my my dad's oldest
brother um until he passed um which gives you
an idea of just how open or not uh you know my
my My father's family in particular was around
issues of any sort of significant import like
that, right? Go back a little bit further. My
great -grandmother had her special friend that
lived with her. We called her Auntie Elsie. And
it was only ever just a special friend, but in
reality, they were lovers. My great -grandmother
was a lesbian, but that wasn't talked about.
That gives you, I think that gives a pretty accurate
illustration of the family dynamic and how open
it really was or not. And so unpacking the best
I've been able to get with my dad. And it's only
piecing little pieces of the puzzle together
from my memory, from bits and pieces of conversations
with his brothers, you know, and family stories
here and there that I can. you know vaguely recall
but but the best the best i can possibly get
is is i think honestly my dad may have been gay
um and and how beautiful would it have been for
him to be able to live his life feeling like
he could just be himself um but he couldn't and
So when you're sitting with that kind of pain
and you don't have anyone modeling for you, you
don't have society supporting any healthy way
of expressing and just being yourself and being
accepted for who you are, how could that not
have a negative impact on on your ability to
just be you and then you know you add to that
um his father my grandpa coming back from the
war um absolutely with his own um inability to
deal with things that he's got going on inside
in healthy ways and um you know and a mother
who i love my grandmother uh dearly she's a beautiful
beautiful um woman and um and i'm so grateful
for our relationship but but not a not an open
caring supportive kind of nurturing person right
that you're very very stereotypical stiff upper
lip um you know brit right um londoner who's
been through you know the blitz and you know
albeit as a child but um it it's It's that kind
of dynamic. No one's talking about anything deeper
than surface level. No one's modeling behavior
that illustrates healthy ways of being and support.
You end up with what you end up with. I love
that you're touching on generational trauma,
man, because it's a real thing. You know, there's
so much, I'm not a scientist, I'm not a psychologist,
I'm not going to sit here and go into the weeds
as far as studies and reports and stuff go. I've
read enough of them to know that increasingly
science is beginning to understand how our coding
is enshrined in our DNA and how that coding transmits.
generationally through the years. What James
Gearing is carrying today is as much James' own
experiences and his own life as it is your forefathers
and foremothers and your ancestors and the things
that they've experienced. I have a better understanding
now of why I was living life the way I was living
it. up to a certain point um it's as much my
own stuff as it is the stuff of my ancestors
it really is interesting i mean when you when
you hear the old you know argument of nature
versus nurture as we sit here now in 2020 25
excuse me 2025 the answer is yes It's nature
and nurture. And with the whole epigenetics understanding
now, we realize that, you know, we used to be
told with DNA was DNA and it was set and that
was it. But now we realize that it can actually
morph. And so, for example, people say, well,
you know, there's a history of alcoholism in
my family and therefore kind of the subtext is,
well, I'm doomed to get it too. That's not the
case. There's a history of trauma in your family
that created alcoholism that absolutely is shaping
the DNA as well. But as much as it turned, you
know, it pushed towards addiction, it can absolutely
be turned to be pushing away from addiction as
well. So I think understanding these dominoes
and realizing that you can stop them. I think
this is the most exciting argument for our generation
is. we can do the work ourselves so that we stop
passing it on to our children the buck stops
here as it were and is it a perfect you know
period absolutely not of course there'll be some
some you know um seeping into that next generation
but you absolutely can minimize the effect but
only when we look in the mirror and then i think
then you look beyond the mirror and then forgive
yourself for the upbringing that you have and
then forgive your parents for the upbringing
that they have and realize as you said earlier
for example if there was a world war that british
and americans and australians and obviously you
know all the other allied nations and then the
people in the axis yep canadians exactly that
they were all a part of that's only really two
generations back so of course there's going to
be a ripple effect so i think that talking about
world war ii from a mental health point of view
is an extremely important part of this equation
because yes you know your own childhood may have
been x but you know as you said our grandparents
generation were being bombed in london or were
flying over germany or whatever the thing was
And that doesn't just go away. So it's really
interesting as I start exploring everyone's early
life and then generations back, you see these
same things over and over again. Sometimes grandma
and grandpa were absolutely fine, but more often
than not, of course, there was a massive toll
for their service. Yeah. Yeah. And that's something
I've been fascinated by as well is like, you
know, okay, my history is my history. Your history
is your history, right? They're obviously very
different, but not everyone has a history where
there is enough of that generational trauma,
that inability to express, that bottling up of
all of the emotions and the feelings and not
being able to just be real and be authentic and
be true. Not everyone's had that experience and
I appreciate you touching on that. Um, the other
thing I, I, you mentioned, um, sort of alcoholism
and addiction and, and, and that sort of thing.
There's, um, there's a, a Canadian psychologist,
Polish Canadian psychologist named, uh, Dr. Gabor
Mate. Are you familiar with him? Very familiar.
Yes. Right. Love his work. He's a, he's a recipient
of the order of Canada, which is, uh, our nation's
highest civilian honor, um, and for his work
in, in childhood. childhood psychology, childhood
trauma, and that sort of thing. He's all over.
If you're on Instagram and your feed is anything
like mine, you're going to come across various
interviews and bits. But he says one of the things
that he talks about is addiction, whatever it
is, whether it's gambling, sex, porn, drugs,
whatever, alcohol. There's a delineation between
How you treat addiction and how you treat the
underlying reasons for, right? So you treat addiction
by detox, right? The detox detoxifies the physical
symptoms. Like it detoxifies the body from the
dependency on whatever the substance is, right?
That's how you deal with drug abuse. But it's
the underlying piece. what that's driving that
person to drug abuse that ultimately determines
the success of that person's outcome, right?
And so you can throw as many people as you want
into detox programs. And yes, a lot of them will
also have some mental health supports in place.
But unless those supports create the relationship
necessary between the patient and the therapist,
to allow that patient to feel safe enough to
really open up and really start to dig into the
root of all of all of the pain um you know the
the success rate is going to be very very low
as as statistically i think is probably proven
i don't have studies to show but but i'm willing
to bet if you google it uh enough times you're
going to come up with with really low results
in terms of um uh recidivism and that sort of
thing and that was uh that was something That
relationship, creating that environment of safety,
that was something that I came to truly appreciate
and understand when I entered into therapy. I
didn't go into a program. I found a therapist
near my home that formed a police officer. She
very quickly established that safety for me and
all of a sudden the doors could open. And that's
where we're missing things, I think, as a society
collectively is, you know, like in British Columbia,
for example, the government of the province of
BC, and for American listeners, our provinces
are like your states. The government of the province
of BC has recently rolled out mandatory drug
treatment, right? There's legislation that allows
police officers and other authorities to compel
people into treatment under the Mental Health
Act. Okay, cool. First of all, there's not enough
beds. But secondly, does the program have enough
supports in place and a modality or a series
of modalities available to ensure that those
that are being... compelled into treatment can
dig in at those roots. And I think that's ultimately
where the gap exists in the mental health conversation
overall. And I think it shows like this and like
mine and others out there that are starting to.
to make this easier to talk about and just like,
Hey man, it's okay. You can have a bad fucking
day. And, and we can talk about that. And, and
I'm, I'm really grateful for, for those conversations.
When I wrote, I was rambling. I rambled. I'm
sorry, James. I rambled. No, no, no, no. It was
good though. And I think, you know, I love. Learning
from Gabor Mate and there's another guy, Johan
Hari, who wrote Chasing the Scream, who I think
is phenomenal. One of his quotes is the opposite
of addiction isn't sobriety, it's connection.
And I think that's absolutely, you know, 100%.
But when I wrote my first book, there was an
analogy I came up with because we always talk
about, you know, your cup, your bucket, your
backpack is overflowing in the mental health
thing. And I was like, well, how does that apply
if you put it in the world of addiction? There's
no real way of making that analogy work for the
addict. So I was thinking, well, what about if
it was the reverse? What about if there was that
bucket always needed to be full? And so you start
off as that, you know, giggling little infant
and that bucket's full and it's, you know. There's
no perforations at all. And it's full of just,
you know, pure joy. Everything that you need
is healthy for a child. And then you have childhood
trauma, you know, and then as you progress and
you get a little bit older, now you start leaking
some of that fluid because there's some holes
in the bucket, you know, and then there's bullying.
And then there's maybe some shame because you're
not matching up to, you know, what the parents'
expectation are or one parent left. And now wasn't
I good enough? And there's all these holes, you
know, being punctured. And now there's this need
to fill the bucket. And so now you're scrambling
for that thing. Is it alcohol? Is it gambling?
Is it overtime? Is it, you know, what is the
thing? And so, like you said, when you remove
that filler, you still haven't plugged the holes.
And so I think this is why, you know, exactly
like you're talking about. When you start addressing
some of the holes. things start leaking out at
a slower rate. Now you have the energy and the
capacity to start replacing some of your negative
coping mechanisms with positive coping mechanism,
which then further start patching the hole. So,
I mean, yeah, if you just simply remove the thing
that you are addicted to, you're just leaving
a void again if you haven't addressed the thing
beneath the thing, as they say. Have you ever
watched that show? I don't even know if it's
still on anymore, but my wife and I were sort
of transfixed by it. for a period of time in
our lives uh called my 600 pound life i haven't
watched it but i've seen little mini clips of
it so i'm aware of it i've run on those patients
numerous times in real world yeah right exactly
and and uh a big part of the so i think everyone
knows the show right the idea is someone who
is his morbid like beyond morbidly obese i guess
but like super obese um you know is eligible
for this this stomach shrinking surgery of some
kind uh so they have to go see this particular
doctor and as part of the part of the approval
process they have to also go into agree to go
into therapy to address again the underlying
root for the addiction in this case it's food
right and um Same thing. It's, it's, you know,
you'd see the end of those shows. You were always
rooting, always rooting, like, come on, give
me the happy story. Like show me the six months
later and they're doing great story. And those
were few and far between largely because the
hardest part of that process is the, the ability
or the strength necessary to commit to staring
at your demons directly in the eyes. And allowing
whatever feelings arise, whatever thoughts arise,
whatever emotions arise, allow yourself to sit
with those feelings and allow them to move, allow
them to flow, allow them to be expressed. And
that's like... You know, people talk about the
fear of public speaking is like the number one
fear. Like you can take hardened battle weary
soldiers and put them on the battlefield or,
you know, big rope climbing tofu eating firemen
and put them in the, you know, five alarm fires
and they're fine. But the minute you put them
in front of a room full of people and ask them
to talk to that, to those people, they're like,
Oh God, this is brutal. I think that is probably
secondary only to the fear of. of remembering
some of your toughest experiences personally
and i was reading an article um in psychology
today a few few days ago last week actually i
actually texted steve about this because i thought
he'd get a kick he's a marvel fan as well and
this psychologist um wrote an article about the
movie thunderbolts great film which is the great
film like great film and um and if you i don't
well spoiler alert uh if you haven't seen it
uh but the the way that film addressed and this
is what the psychologist was writing about in
his piece in psychology today uh the way that
film addressed trauma and uh healing from traumatic
experience And specifically through the way they
illustrated the cognitive behavioral therapy
modality or CPT or CBT processing through the
way the film was mastered. I thought it was absolutely
masterful. I'd never seen a film do that before.
And I'm sure there are films out there that have.
But I'd never seen and certainly not seen a film
that has as broad an appeal as a Marvel movie
does. Anyway, the psychologist wrote in there.
uh because he was he was like me i guess just
as enamored with with how well they'd done this
and um and he said something in there that really
struck me he said um he was talking about trauma
and then he there's a line that says post -traumatic
stress disorder and then in brackets he goes
a phobia of memory a fear of remembering and
that's what it is like if that's that's ultimately
what trauma healing is. That's what trauma recovery
is about. And there's different modalities, different
ways of helping people do that depending upon
what resonates most for them. In my case, it
was CPT, CBT. But it's that fear of remembering
all these shitty things that you've been running
from your entire life. And that's where addiction
starts to creep in too, right? I can't run from
this anymore. Nothing I'm doing out here in my
external world is fixing these things. I still
feel shitty inside. I still don't feel great.
I'm not happy. I can't experience joy. I don't
love the way I think I should. All I have left
is anything else. So I'm going to try this substance
kind of thing. And then I think it's, I think
it snowballs from there. I mean, for me, it was,
you know, I wasn't like drinking every day, but
I was drinking, drinking. you know, vodka sodas,
like they were straight sodas, you know, pretty
well every night, right? And then going to bed
late and not getting enough sleep. And, you know,
it was like anything just to numb, anything just
to help me suppress. And that's the worst thing
you can do, right? Because I was running. I was
afraid of feeling all of these repressed feelings.
And that to me is probably the number one fear
over public speaking, dude. It's interesting
going back to the obese patient that is struggling
to overcome that thing. I think this is where
we're seeing so much success with psychedelics,
MDMA, ketamine. I'll give you a perfect example,
even though this particular example she did remember,
but Johan Hari talks about... this study they
did where they put all these obese patients on
IV nutrients. So the whole point was if they
don't consume calories, they'll lose all this
weight, and it would be a huge success. And their
kind of rock star of the study lost a huge amount,
got down to a healthy body weight from, again,
the kind of morbidly obese size. And then one
day she just disappeared, stopped kind of checking
in, and they finally tracked her down, and she
gained a bunch of weight. One of the scientists
is quite astute. And he said, hey, can I go and
ask her some questions? So he's kind of unpacking
what happened. And he said, well, let me ask
you this. When was it that you first started
eating this way? And she said, how old were you?
And I think the woman said seven or whatever
age she was. And said, was there anything significant
that happened when you were seven years old?
And she said, yeah, that was when my grandfather
started molesting me. And so for her, when she
got down to this healthy weight, she started
getting noticed by men of the opposite sex. And
she didn't like that. The psychology was there.
Now take that same example, but now the brain
has locked that away somewhere. You have no way
of saying what is that thing. The whole princess
of the pee I always refer to. You're just on
a mattress. You don't realize that six mattresses
down, there's this pee still. And so I think
this is where it's exciting for psilocybin, MDMA,
et cetera, et cetera, is for some of these people,
they just don't know what that thing is in the
first place. They're not even afraid to face
it. They don't even know it's there. They just
know how they feel. And it sounds like it's not
a magic bullet, but these are really allowing
people to finally get to that thing, open the
padlock on that little tiny closet in their mind,
and then use all those other therapies to start
processing. what they found. But I think in our
profession specifically, we are very good at
compartmentalizing. I think this is what a lot
of people struggle with. And so I think that's
why veterans and firefighters and, you know,
law enforcement officers are having a lot of
success with this very thing that ironically
is demonized by, you know, the legal element
of drug prohibition. You know, sometimes there's
an element of just not wanting to face the thing,
but I think more often than not, a lot of people
aren't even aware really what that thing is.
Yeah, that's fair. And I'm sort of fascinated
by the discussion in the sort of stoic paramilitary
culture around. individual histories and what
compels people into those kinds of professions.
I was having this conversation with my therapist
not long ago, and it makes me wonder if, by and
large, statistically speaking, more of us in
those professional environments aren't suffering
from various uh traumas uh over our lifetimes
and that we seek these professions this was this
was this was my i'm basing this on my experience
and and the more i'm learning as i as i go here
but you know for me growing up in a in a chaotic
family environment where i felt very much abandoned
and unloved by my father and um seeking Seeking
out an environment of predictable regimentality
and structure and discipline and uniformity and
being put in a position of trust and authority,
a position generally respected by others. I ask
myself these questions a lot. And, and I, I often
wonder, you know, is, is, is there something
to that? Like I would love for, for a more learned
individual than myself, who's perhaps, you know,
pushing a PhD somewhere to take that on as a
thesis, because I think that's worthy of some
exploration. I don't know, James, if, if that
resonates with you in any way. But, but it's
a question I've, I've found myself asking over
and over and over again. And I would love for
somebody out there who's smarter than me to,
to help me figure it out because I just, I can't,
I can't escape the feeling that there's something
to that. Yeah. Well, I can tell you just from,
you know, hearing a lot of conversations, I'll
give you a perfect example is Jake Clark, who's
the founder of saver warrior. The first conversation
we had, he really opened my eyes to. the impact
of this on so many of us in uniform and the uh
supposedly the aces the adverse childhood experience
score of the average uh you know member of the
military or first responder is six out of ten
which also aligns with the average incarcerated
person so you know you have again hurt people
hurt people or hurt people help people you know
depending on which road they take but I think
then when you start going down this, you're like,
oh, okay, well, we're all screwed then because
so many of us have trauma. I was in a house fire
when I was four years old, almost died, had a
massive wall fall on our car, just miss us. There's
a second near -death experience at about, I think
I was about 11 or 12 then. Horrific parents'
divorce. So there was all these things. And absolutely,
there's no question that those factored into
me wanting to find a tribe, wanting to... to
be part of the solution, wanting other people
not to feel what it's like to be scared, to be
hurt, to be abandoned, whatever the thing is.
And then when I have that armor, you're a firefighter,
you're a cop, you know, there's that kind of
superhero Marvel element to it as well. I think
where we're at now in this conversation, which
is exciting is if left unaddressed, that early
trauma absolutely can be a fracture in your foundation.
Exactly what you said earlier. I've used that
analogy all the time. But where there's hope
is if it's addressed, I truly believe that becomes
resilience and it becomes post -traumatic growth.
And it's an absolute asset in uniform. You're
more empathetic. You're more confident. You understand
the struggles of other people and it makes you
want to be able to be there and help and mitigate
that issue. So this is where... I think this
conversation of addressing mental health at the
front door, not doing some bullshit psych test
that checks a box like the MMPI, because that's
never meant to determine the ability of a person
to be able to be a good first responder, but
have these kind of counseling conversations at
the front door. You're going to PT your recruits,
so why not PT their mind and get them to understand
the reason that you're standing here on these
diamonds is you probably have some struggles
in life. And some of you may have already been
able to, you know, to offset them with some healing
elements already. And some of you might have
just shoved them down and buried them. So understanding
that, we're going to, you know, give you some
counseling sessions, just like we're going to
give you some PT. And so you can start, you know,
processing these so that it absolutely will make
you a better copper or firefighter. So I think
now it's not just identifying that. I think now
we have an ability to really channel that and
say. That is an asset, but you have to work through
it first. If you just leave it, it actually will
become, as we said, a fracture in your foundation
and it's going to rear its head at some point.
James, as a young guy growing up and having those
kinds of experiences, when did it first occur
to you? Sorry to flip the script on you here,
but when did it first occur to you? Hey, gosh,
there's something that's not quite right. I've
got to figure this out. So what's interesting,
there was no aha moment for me. And so now we're
reflecting again. So my real aha moment was like,
okay, there's all these firefighters, police
officers, paramedics, soldiers that I've had
on the show that have been so deep in addiction
or sat there with the pistol and the bottle of
Jack Daniels. My reflection was, well, why didn't
I? I know there's nothing special about me whatsoever,
period, point blank. So what was different? Because
there's something to be pulled away from that.
And if I really look back, as we sit here today
and we know a lot of the very positive coping
mechanisms for all the bad shit that happened
when I was young, those were also all the good
things were infused there as well. So I'm one
of five kids. I grew up on a farm in England.
my dad was a veterinary surgeon so i had nature
i had animals i had healing i had a basically
a pseudo firehouse table where we all made fun
of each other and you know kind of comedy was
a big part um so it wasn't that i had therapy
and you know emdr and all that kind of thing
it was just that i won the you know the the address
lottery i grew up in a family that you know in
in one element was definitely not healthy but
an other element was and so those two like i
said for all the bad shit it got processed now
you take someone else who they didn't have that
other side they didn't have the ability to grow
up on a british farm and you know be around horses
and dogs and so that stuff got buried down that's
when james and you know steve are on the same
exact track. James is doing okay. And Steve starts
struggling and spiraling downwards. So I think
there's so much value in, in the people that
haven't struggled to reflect and go, well, why
didn't I, because it's not that you're a better
human. It's not that, Oh, you were just made
of different stuff. Like you hear people say
that's bullshit. Absolutely bullshit. It just
means that you were fortunate enough to have
some healing modalities woven in, whether it
was deliberately as an adult or whether it was,
you know, by pure accident as a child. So that's
what my conversation has always been is like,
why wasn't I? Like, I've been dark. Don't get
me wrong. I've got, you know, to a deeply depressed
state. I went through a divorce, had an issue
with my son, getting completely illegally Baker
acted as a middle schooler by his school. An
act now, if they did it again, the people that
are responsible will be in prison, basically
kidnapped my child. So there was some, you know,
don't get me wrong, there was some fucking dark
days, but it wasn't the darkest of dark. It wasn't
drown into a bottle. It wasn't, you know, think
about putting a gun in my mouth. And so I think
this is it, is realizing that just like you've
talked about, and we'll unpack in a minute. These
healing modalities do work, but everyone's toolbox
is different. And mine's very nature focused.
That is what seems to work for me is, is the
outdoors and exercise and, you know, my dog and,
you know, time with family and traveling. And,
you know, these are things that are working,
but that's again, through a lot of reflection.
But yeah, so, so the point being, I never had
that, Oh, I'm, I'm in a bad place. I need to
get help. It was more so like. Why have I never
gotten to the darkest places? What is working?
And then also then for me, it's like, well, then
lean more into that. That did work. So don't
stop doing that thing. And even yesterday, that's
the end of this kind of ramble. I've struggled
very recently because my youngest is about to
turn 18 and go to college. And so for the first
time, we're going to have an empty home. Another
layer that I never realized how awful it is.
Awful, awful. So yesterday. I was absolutely
in a massive funk, made myself go to jujitsu,
went to the pool with my wife, went to Iron Legion,
my gym, and did another strength and conditioning
workout in the evening, walked my dog later that
evening. So it's really kind of leaning back
into those things. But massive monologue to explain
that if you haven't been struggling the same
as some other people, then reflect why is that
case the case what can you pull out of that and
then you can tell other people look i think this
is why i haven't been you know to those lowest
of depths maybe this is something that will work
for you as well because that's it like i said
to just underline my entire monologue no two
people no one person is more resilient you know
biologically than than another person it's about
the struggles that we've had and then the fortune
or lack thereof, the ability to process those
struggles. How often do you cry, man? Oh, all
the time. I'm a fucking cry baby in a good way,
in a good way. And there's times where I'll put
on films or songs just to get it out because
it's that tension, you know, it's like that,
that, that kind of, you know, pressure cooker.
So sometimes you've got to open the relief valve.
Yeah, exactly. It's, it's, um, I, I like in,
um, I like in that, that, that feel, you know,
and if I find it really disruptive. So what I've,
what I've learned about myself over the last
year is in this tracks, because if you ask my
mom, she'll tell you, I was, I was a really sensitive
kid. And you know, my, my therapist says, well,
you're, she, she classifies me as an empath.
And so, but I, but those were, those were, you
know, As an empath, your superpower is you can
read everybody's emotions and it really sucks
sometimes because you can feel other people's
pain. But I had buried that superpower for a
very, very long time under this kind of masculine
guise of what I thought the world needed me to
be as a man kind of thing, right? And so what
I found over this last year is I've been doing
a lot of crying. Um, and it gets, it's like,
it gets less, which is nice. Um, it's, so when
I first let's back up. So a year ago, uh, March,
2024, um, I was going into that new year and
I was like, uh, something's not right. Like I
just, I just knew something wasn't right. And,
uh, and then, uh, it all kind of came to a head
for me in, in March. And I had a complete, you
know, I went into mental health crisis, a complete
breakdown. I couldn't control. any emotion anymore
um and i couldn't figure out what's wrong i didn't
know why i you know it was just and then i thought
okay well i could suck it up through this weekend
and then i'll get back to work monday and then
uh i'll go to the doc next week kind of thing
and then i was in um uh i was in uh the rec center
because i i like to swim as my workout i just
find so much so much peace in the water and and
there's a quietness to it when you're underwater
and you're doing your laps and anyway um so i
go through my workout and i i was completely
off something wasn't right and i was showering
uh after my workout and and my brain just kicked
this fun little thought in my head hey man like
you know how everything's going fucked up for
you right now like nothing's you can't figure
it out well when you get to work just grab your
pistol load it and then put it to your head and
squeeze the trigger and i was like Somehow I
was separate from that thought though. And that
was the really interesting thing. That was the
first time I'd observed one of my thoughts versus
identifying with the thought. And I'm also fortunate
enough that I had distance from the time that
that thought occurred and the means of executing
the thought. So I went home and I collapsed on
the floor. and told my wife, like, I need help.
Like I, something, something's not right. And
so all to say, I started, I started into therapy
in earnest a couple of weeks after that, once
I found the right, once I found the right therapist.
And as she started right at the beginning, kind
of like you did, man, like, so tell me about
your parents. Right. I'm like, are you kidding?
Okay. And right from there. And so as the weeks
progressed and I'm, you know, I'm going through
therapy every week and I'm journaling every day.
And you know, more and more and more like at
the end of every day, my wife and I do this really
cool thing on our deck. We, we, we always debrief
our day and we've been doing this for, I don't
know, like I want to say close to 10 years and
it's just become a regular part of, of our, of
our existence together where we get together
and, and we spend, you know, two hours, three
hours, literally just talking, you know, we'll
have a glass of wine or something like that.
We'll just talk. And I love it so much. It's
become such a, such a huge therapeutic tool for
me. but but it's during these and i would just
completely cry and she's a very stoic uh very
stoic woman um and it was i think really difficult
for her initially to see a husband who would
only cry at like war movies um you know what
i mean or about his daughter uh and and otherwise
not really express any any emotion any meaningful
way i think it was really difficult her in the
onset to see all that and it's really difficult
to do because it's super disruptive right like
all i'm trying to do is just hey how's it going
how you know talk about my day and talk about
what you know what i've been thinking and feeling
and all this kind of stuff and all of a sudden
all this emotion comes and and and and so like
you i'm you know i'm absolutely a cry baby for
all the right reasons but it's been getting less
and less and less like it's it's fewer and further
between which is really really nice um but that's
the that's that's what i've been finding is is
the challenge is like um allowing And it's easier
now, but allowing that emotion to move, right?
Because my mom describes it, energy and motion.
That's all it is. It's your body's got stored
up energy and it needs to move it out. So allow
it to move. And the more you do that, the more
you feel your feelings fully as many times as
you need to, the more you heal whatever it is
that was the source of those, you know, that
sadness, that sorrow, that... you know, anger
that whatever it was, right. The more you allow
yourself is again, my experience only, but, uh,
to move that emotion, to move those feelings,
that's where the healing truly is. And now it's
just kind of irritating. It's like, uh, I'm like,
I'm good. Like, I'm good. I'll talk about all
this all day long. But every now and then, like
earlier in the show, right. I'm talking about
my dad and okay, great. Here it comes again.
Right. Like, you know, because I do, I feel,
I feel a sense of sorrow for my dad and for the
life that he could have led, but didn't. And,
and feeling that emotion, just kind of allowing
it through and being okay with it. That's, that's
where. I'm, I'm, that's where my work is right
now. Like just being okay. Just, yeah, man, I'm
just going to have a bit of a cry here. Give
me a second and, and, and move on. So I'm glad
to know that I'm not alone here. James is what
I'm saying. Yeah, no, not at all. Not at all.
Whatever you're the, you're the one supposed
to be monologuing, not me. But no, I mean, I
think this goes back to the whole empath thing.
And again, this is one of the massive realizations
I had a few years ago now. In my profession,
arguably even more so in yours, in law enforcement,
there's this facade, and I think it's the generation
that we grew up in too. We grew up with the action
heroes being the stone -faced bodybuilders, the
Stallones, the Rambos, the Robocops. But if you
actually listen and look at who raises their
hand, especially in the first responder profession,
these people are doing it because of kindness
and compassion. You know, we have the yin and
the yang. It's not just the white circle, this
kind of, you know, just go punch everyone in
the face. There's a kindness and compassion and
empathy that sends you into service in the first
place. And then you get in there and you get
beat down by all the things, you know, and you
sleep deprived and, you know, organizational
betrayal and all these other things that really
compound. And then there's that, you know, compassion
fatigue. There's that loss of that kindness,
compassion and empathy, which is bad. for the
public if that happens to them but it's also
bad with us so for example you cut a family of
you know out of a minivan that was killed by
a drunk driver who's now sitting on the curb
feeling sorry for themselves yeah in that moment
you've got to be stone faced and you've got to
get the job done and get those poor you know
deceased people out of their their vehicle but
then when once you go home you've got to allow
yourself to feel because a normal human being
would cry after that. They would be affected
after seeing such a tragic end to these people.
So I think it goes back to that. You know, if
you look at us as infants, if we're hungry, if
we've got our nappy is dirty, whatever the thing
is, we cry. You know, it's, you know, stimulus
and effect. It's no different when you're an
adult, when there's something sad, when things
are built up, crying is the most, you know, innate
way of letting some of that out. So I think that
allowing yourself to feel when you're in uniform
after the job is done, you've been in that, you
know, work state. If we just bottle it up and
shove it down, eventually, you know, that pressure
cooker is going to explode. I was having this
very conversation with with a friend of mine,
Chris Latrell. He's a former. police officer
in the state of Washington, Kennewick and, and
a former air force veteran as well. And we were
talking about sort of the line between stoicism
and the importance of, of feeling those feelings.
Right. And he's like, well, where's that line
drawn? And, and I, for me, I sort of, I said
like in the imminency of the circumstance, You
have to respond. That's why you're a first responder,
not a reactor, right? You have training, you
have skills and abilities that allow you to respond
to this circumstance appropriately. But once
the imminency of that or the severity of that
circumstance has subsided, right? It's safe again,
right? The fire's out. The intersection's cleared.
The suspect is in custody. the bad guys have
stopped shooting right um whatever that circumstance
is okay fine that you need you need to be stoic
and you need to be able to respond right you
just need to you get the job done but once that's
done there needs to be absolutely needs to be
space afterwards to do exactly what you're describing
and that's feel all of the natural normal healthy
emotions that arise as a result of being in a
really shitty circumstance. And let's be real,
even if you're fighting with some idiot over,
uh, sorry, I don't mean to use judgmental language
like that. Um, even if you're fighting with someone,
uh, over a relatively minor offense and it takes
a little bit of, you know, they're resisting,
it takes a little bit of time to, to get them
into, into restraints and, and into the back
of the car. Um, you know, you, as a, as a law
enforcement professional, you, you look at that
and go, ah. part of the course, not a big deal,
but it is a big deal. That's not normal human
behavior. That is not a normal day for anybody.
And, and Steve, Steve, Steve talks about this.
Farina talks about this kind of the piecing the
pie of society, right? And so, so collectively
over, over years of evolution, humans have decided
that, okay, a certain part of the societal pie,
we need you to go over here and do these things
so that we don't have to, because they're really
awful. Right. And there's there's a there's an
obligation to the people that go into that piece
of the pie and do all those awful things. There's
an obligation to make sure that they feel as
safe as possible every single day. And that that
goes beyond just like giving you the necessary
training and tools and equipment for your job.
It's it's it's this kind of thing. Right. Making
sure that you have the space after the call and
the threat has subsided to feel your normal human
emotions. about that circumstance and be totally
cool with it and we're not there yet no well
especially if you look at the american fire service
we work them so much more than everyone else
so you take that piece of the pie and you say
hey we're going to ask you to do extraordinary
things even though you're ordinary people here
then we're like and then we're going to give
you the worst working environment you can possibly
have to double down on the fact that you're probably
going to die way before you should you know so
this is such a hard pushback and i'm actually
lecturing the end of this week in in florida
to our state union about this very thing because
there's we're finally starting to get it in florida
and we're seeing departments changing because
we've got a recruitment crisis because you know
what's happening here is young people are going
well look You clearly are not taking care of
your firefighters or cops or, you know, paramedics.
We're not going to join your profession because
we value our physical health, our mental health,
our relationships, our time at home. And so,
you know, figure it out or you're not going to
have any of us. So, you know, now it's nice because
they're being forced to do that. And I think
this conversation now is really starting to become
more present within departments. It's like, yes.
this as i said that that white circle now you
go to the transition when people leave our profession
and you have this massive identity crisis because
i've been this you know faux stoic because i
mean surreal stoicism is understanding this stuff
the faux stoicism is the stallone schwarzenegger
i'm just a cop you know and then you leave and
like well no one gives a shit anymore you don't
have the uniform your id doesn't work you know
the people that you thought loved you a lot of
them have already forgotten about you i hate
to tell you and that's a massive identity crisis
so Having this conversation that we are human
beings in a uniform rather than firefighters,
cops, or whatever the label that we're given,
I think really then allows you to feel the things
that you need to feel. You go through a divorce,
you're going to have a reaction. Your favorite
dog dies, you're going to have a reaction. You
cut a minivan full of children out of a van,
you are supposed to have a reaction. I had a
pretty interesting experience just over a year
ago now. I was in London on a plane just getting
ready to take off from Heathrow. The doors are
closed and they haven't taxied off yet. And the
last passenger face plants in the aisle ended
up working a code on the plane. And it was one
of those ones, I say this a few times on here,
you know, you see his news stories. Oh, there
was a, you know, 30 cardiologists on their way
back from a conference. No, there was no one
on this plane that had an emergency background
except myself. And there was some other bystanders
that had done CPR and the cabin crew had been
taught, you know, the basic stuff. So don't get
me wrong. It wasn't single handed. There was
some amazing, good Samaritans, but I was the
one running the code. I was the only one that
really had this level of experience. And so we
worked them. Then the London fire brigade came
on for, again, very minimal EMS training. And
then ultimately London ambulance came on and
then I finally handed them off, washed my hands
and went and sat down. And I felt a totally different
experience than I used to when I was on my crew,
because now I'm a civilian. And I went and washed
the blood off my hands and sat back down on my
seat. And then I was like, kind of knocked me
sideways for a bit. And I'm like, what is going
on? And I was like, well. oh shit this is what
you're supposed to feel when someone dies right
in front of you and you fight to save their life
and they still die anyway you know so it was
really interesting because we get in that groove
whether it's law enforcement or fire or ems where
you're just doing your job and then you get you
have this exposure like this is how one code
is supposed to feel there's times where we had
numerous codes in one shift you know so so yeah
so just again bit of a monologue but yeah understanding
that every single time as you said whether it's
a massive tragedy or just simply going hands
-on with someone that has that's supposed to
have an effect and if you don't process that
effect it builds and builds and builds and builds
and then the next thing you turn around and wonder
why you're struggling yeah yeah totally right
totally right i um i i've i've had my i've had
my own you know like cpr dead guy experiences.
That's one of those things that I had to unpack
as well, because at the time, you're just doing
what it is you're required to do, you're trained
to do, and then that's it. This was at a time
in our evolution where these things weren't really
talked about at all. And so you just carry on.
And it's, you know, the reality is you've watched
someone expire. And that's not a normal day for
anybody. I don't care what uniform you're wearing
or not, or, you know, what you're doing in that
day or not. That's not a normal experience. And
it's okay to feel whatever the feelings are that
arise. And that's the key, right? If we can do
that, if we can feel comfortable, particularly
as men, if we can feel comfortable enough whenever
those feelings arise just to express them, if
we can have that behavior modeled for us consistently
enough by other men and have it supported by
women as well, because I think that's another
part of this discussion is, you know, the male
relationship with the female and, you know, wanting,
having a need to feel supported, you know, at
the end of the day, we all want our moms, right.
And, and, and like, you know, most daughters
want, you know, the, the support of their dad.
It's, it, it really boils down to that. And,
and so the more we can do that collectively and
the more consistently we can do that, I think.
the faster we're going to evolve into a species
that truly is heart -led over mind -led. And
that, I fundamentally believe, is the next natural
evolution for the human being in general, is
to go from all of our top brain -thinking ways
of behaving into a more heart -centered way of
existing. And this is, I think you and I and
other members of our generation are kind of,
we're alive at a really cool point in terms of
humanity's evolution. We're kind of the baton
holders, right? Transitioning from the generations
of our parents, so the baby boomers and the great
generation before them to... you know, the millennials
and the, the gen alphas and whatever it is that's
coming next. And I can't keep track of all the
alphabets out there, but I, you know, I think,
I think Gen X is, is in a really amazing position
to, to break cycles. Like we talked about right
at the beginning to break cycles, generational
cycles. And in so doing And hand that baton off
to the next generation to really expedite that
evolution from mind to a heart -led species.
And I think that's also why we're seeing, you
know, really bizarre geopolitical times, right?
We've, you know, we've got... world leaders uh
i don't i'm not trying to get political here
at all by the way um but but you know let's be
real we're we're in a very strange time um as
far as the world and and how it's ordered and
the way nations interact and and collaborate
with one another and and i think um i think it's
all part of it's all part of a grand a grand
evolutionary plan and design um and and it's
a cool you know it's weird and strange and and
and depending on your perspective fearful as
it as it may feel at times it's a really cool
time to be alive man i've said this recently
when we talk about evolution a lot of times we'll
look at technology innovation so you know the
industrial revolution the computers ai but i
disagree completely i think the evolution of
mankind has been kindness compassion and empathy
Because if you look at a lot of more basal species,
it's there. But I think it's been amplified.
And going back to our grandparents' generation,
a lot of those men and women from around the
world got on planes and ships to go protect a
group of people in Europe that were being oppressed.
And that is the biggest message. But then what
happened since, and I've said this, one of the
most... mind -blowing things is how you can go
from world war ii where people of all colors
and creeds fought but side by side to the 1950s
in america for example where they're hanging
black people from trees and women are supposed
to be in the kitchen and so i think that where
our generation really has a you know a really
exciting ability is to sift through the bullshit
and stop the orange narcissists and the demented
tyrants forcing vaccines on everyone and everything
that we've seen in this country, because I've
said, like, I'm not left or right. I'm just fully
aware that the way that we air quotes, choose
leaders is completely broken because no one,
America hasn't had anyone to be excited about
in the last two, as long as I've lived in this
country, you know, which is 22 plus years. So,
you know, if we just. keep turning our heads
away from the things that are wrong. Gaza is
another perfect example. Is it a one -sided conversation?
No. But has the other side gone way too far?
Yes. Super easy to say, but yet people are terrified
to say it. So I think that standing up just like
our grandparents did, and I did a video a while
ago. Imagine if you were World War II generation
and you had sacrificed your life, been away from
your families for a year, watched your friends
die side by side. And then you saw our generation
allowing the same exact thing to happen in the
Middle East. What would they think? They would
be disgusted, absolutely disgusted, because this
movement is supposed to be towards community,
towards, you know. stopping the bullies from
rising and standing up for the people who are
oppressed, regardless of their background situation,
you know, wherever they sit on this planet. So
I agree 100%. I think it's our generation that
really has to stand up and continue fighting
for what's right and really kind of laying that
foundation of community, pulling people back
together again. Because it's not... a political
statement to point out that the the last two
administrations that we've had in america have
deliberately divided the nation and set us against
each other that's not a leader that's a tyrant
you know so i think for us You know, advocating
for a better environment for young men and young
women to talk about how they feel, a better environment
for people in uniform to be able to do the courageous
things that they do, but also have the support
so they can process that and be at home with
their family as much as possible. That is absolutely
our generation's responsibility. And the people
of our generation are out there propagating this
division and lies. are an absolute disgrace to
Generation X because we should be learning from.
We were the grandchildren of these incredible
warriors of the 1940s that did stand up and fight
for people and wanting to make the world better.
And now I feel like some of those... Those people
of our generation have completely abused that
and are actually doing the very tyrannical thing
that caused the Second World War in the first
place. So I don't think it's a political conversation
at all. It's about kindness and compassion. And
even if you want to lean into the holy books,
what would Jesus do? What would Buddha do? Choose
your prophet. What would they actually do if
they were here now? They would want the community
to be pulled together. Kindness, compassion,
empathy, healing. I couldn't agree more. The
pendulum swung so far the other way in some areas
where it got ridiculous. But, you know, our generation
should be the one that stands up and say, hey,
you know, we're going to be the true north. We've
seen the tyranny from our grandparents generation
and we see the potential tyranny of what's happening
now. These are the leaders that we should have,
whether it's the country, whether it's a fire
department or a police department or border control.
And this is who we shouldn't have. But it takes
a courageous voice. And sadly, it's very easy
just to stick your head back in the sand and
do nothing. First of all, I just want to express
my gratitude to you for using a very Canadian
term, True North. I appreciate that. You know,
so Canada hasn't had a much better run as far
as our leaders go. And again, I'm not interested
in having any political debate about anything,
but I will say the more our society, the more
humanity continues to evolve, From mind into
heart, you're talking about kindness and compassion
as a foundation for our way of being. The better
able we're going to be to recognize when someone
puts themselves out for elected office or a leadership
position of some kind, the better able we're
going to be to recognize who is and who is not.
truly authentic. Because I think authenticity
is the foundation for the next great leap for
mankind, living truly authentically. Because
we're all completely unique from one another,
right? We're all the same. We're all human beings.
The same blood runs through our bodies. The same
bones make up our skeletal structure. The same
nervous systems guide and govern our attitudes
and behaviors to things. We're all the same,
but we're all completely individual and unique
expressions of humanity. And the world needs
more of that uniqueness, being comfortable being
unique, than it needs A bunch of us coalescing
around some sort of identity we think is right.
Does that make sense? Am I making sense when
I say that? So I think the more we evolve and
grow towards that kindness, compassion, heart
-led way of existence, the easier it's going
to be for us to read the room. The easier it's
going to be for us to watch any political aspirant.
on any stage when they're speaking and recognize
authenticity when we see it. And the more we
can do that, the more we're going to get genuinely
authentic people leading from that place of kindness
and compassion. I mean, you also need smart people.
You need people who understand our systems, our
business systems, our financial systems, our
economic systems, our trade systems, our military
and security systems, all of those things. You
need smart people, but you need smart people
that are very comfortable just being who they
are and expressing themselves that way. And whether
or not that message resonates with enough people
to get them into office is decided at the ballot.
You talk about pendulums swinging, and I feel
as though globally, the pendulum has swung so
far one way that we're seeing the exploitation
of election systems. I'm not saying it was a
rigged election anywhere. I'm just saying we're
seeing people ascend to positions of authority.
Because they understand how to leverage the system
for their own personal gain. Not the greater
gain of the collective will of the people or
anything like that, but for their own personal
gain. And I think we're being shown that for
very, very obvious reasons. And I think we're
being shown that because we're being given an
opportunity to either say, I'm not okay with
these systems. anymore as they currently work
i'm not okay with them being exploited i'm okay
with them being leveraged um for for personal
gain and greed or i am okay with it uh and if
you know to your point earlier if you're on the
ladder or if you're in the latter part of that
group i think you're that group will find themselves
uh you know quote on the wrong side of history
end quote yeah Well, it's funny because I'd never
thought about this before, but you hear this
conversation of rigged elections, but just take
a step back. In the States, we have a system
that is completely acknowledged that the only
way you can partake in the ladder towards becoming
the president of the United States is you have
to take money from companies, drug companies,
fast food companies, weapons making companies.
So that is a rigged election because anyone with
ethics. isn't going to partake in that. So this
is the point, is it's not about left or right.
It's about the entire system has become so corrupt
that if you really want to go back to finding
selfless servant leaders who, like you said,
are astute or have a team of people that are
astute in all these areas that we need to make
sure that we're able to be on top of, you have
to have a system that allows the right kind of
person to rise. And we just haven't. So you get
the nation divided. arguing over someone that
if you gave them a thousand different potential
candidates from the country of the best leaders
the two that they're fighting over wouldn't be
on that list no matter be worth separating your
fucking family for so you know this is it if
you take a step back and go what are my values
what is most important to me the health of my
nation the safety of my nation the education
of our youth etc etc you know remove eliminating
homelessness, especially our veterans, all the
things that are really important. What is being
done? Has this even been mentioned in any of
these ones that we've had? No. Okay, well, then
we need to change the way that we do it. So to
me, it's not politics. It's just that, you know,
divide and conquer. I had a guest made a really
astute observation a while ago. He said, imagine
you're in medieval England, and you've got the
peasants in the village arguing with each other.
He said, if they're arguing with each other,
where are they not looking? the castle this is
exactly it you know if you are if you're a whole
you're just consumed by your one party and hating
on the other one and all you ever watch is fox
and cnn just know the castle is laughing at you
but if you all gang band together and say wait
a second these decisions affect all of us then
you start looking at the castle that changes
everything So, you know, I think this is it.
We've, they've done an amazing job of labeling
the things that we need to be talking about politics
so that we don't talk about it. Yeah. Yeah. No,
there's, um, an old political leader, uh, long
deceased now in Canada. His name's Tommy Douglas.
And he was the founder of, um, Canada's the federal
new democratic party, which would be like, uh,
So in Canada, we have more than two parties.
We have three, but typically two kind of alternate
in terms of governance. So the NDP would be kind
of like an even further left of center party
than the Democrats in the United States. At any
rate, so he had this expression, he called it
black cat, white cat. you know every four years
the mice voted uh which cat was going to be in
charge and no matter what it was always a cat
and and that's kind of that's i like that that
my mom reminds me of this all the time my mom
is one of the wisest women i know by the way
shout out to my mom eileen who uh lives in beautiful
burnaby british columbia um she she she shares
these little nuggets with me but she she dropped
that one on me uh years ago and it's one that
stuck with me ever since and and and when i watch
uh when i watch election cycles it feels very
much like that you know it's like what you're
saying well you guys pay attention over here
look at all this stuff that we're telling you
to look at and we'll just keep running things
the way we fee we see fit um and the cats are
still in charge maybe it's time for a mouse i
don't know you know like it's that's kind of
that's I'm really, I was fascinated. I was fascinated
by the US election this time around because one,
I was confident that the current US president
was going to be successful. I don't think I was,
I didn't expect it to be as statistically successful
as it was, but nevertheless, I'm not surprised
he's where he is. But I genuinely believe he's
there for a reason, not for any political or
partisan reason. I think he's there. as much
as any leader is in place in various nations
around the world for evolutionary reasons that
are beyond the political spectrum. I think he's
there to show us, to show the American people
in particular, just how... Just how exploitable
democracy is. And, you know, let's face facts
too, right? For you and I grew up in a generation
and in a time, and our parents as well, grew
up in a time where democracy was it. Like democracy
was the only possible way to govern writ large.
And it was the model for the world. And, you
know, two nations fought quiet, cold wars, trying
to foment. their own style of governance in different
nations around the world for many decades. When
we were born, we were brought up to believe that
this was it, boy. It's an American -led global
world order, and that'll always be the way it
is. Fast forward to 2025, and we're learning
that that's probably not the way it's going to
be. The world's adjusting and adapting. As a
result, and I think the current administration
is in place to show the American people, hey,
this is how this system can actually be leveraged
for personal gain. Are you okay with that? You
need to figure that out. Yeah, it's really interesting
watching because one of my guests, I forget who
it was now, but they made an excellent point.
They said, America is the poster child for democracy.
And I agree. And this is where people get these
two things mixed up. America is a beautiful country
and Americans actually are some of the most altruistic
people. on the planet like if you look at the
amount of donations and those kind of things
agreed and when you know my feed for example
on social media is full of american people doing
beautiful things in their community you just
don't see that on the news normally but but if
this you know if you really want to sell this
to the world because we're not a world police
what should happen is you come up with this great
great kind of community leadership model and
other nations that go tell me more about that
that seems to be really good but if you look
in at the moment and again this is both sides
of the aisle that have contributed to this. We
have 70 % of the population that are obese or
overweight, 40%, sorry, more than 40 % are now
obese, clinically obese. You have numerous school
shootings. We have, you know, a massive opioid
crisis. We consume 75 % of the world's opioids
and we only make up 4 % of the world's population.
And we have almost 25 % of the world's incarcerated
population. So when you look at those hard, cold
facts. and you say our leadership model is the
best, people on the outside are going, but it's
not lining up. What are you talking about? And
so the American people are beautiful. We've been
portrayed by these people that we pay. You've
got to remember, we pay their salaries. And so
I think this is what I'm really seeing is like
the analogy of the... the pottery you know let's
say ghost you know when when the clay starts
getting wobbly it spins and it just flies off
into the wall i feel like that's what's happening
now and that is a good thing because now people
are starting to go well wait a second for example
the current one a lot of people heard let's make
america healthy again well that resonates with
a lot of us absolutely let's you know i'm from
a fire police military recruitment point of view
we need healthy young people otherwise we're
not going to protect our country anymore and
what happens we're in june now and all i've heard
is oh we're going to get rid of red food dye
that's it you know i mean really that's six months
worth of work going back to what should have
been done decades ago like the rest of europe
and everyone else so this is the point is i think
really there is an awakening now And I truly
believe that there is going to be a renaissance,
a revolution of kindness, compassion, empathy,
community, because I think people are sick and
tired. And I agree, not just the one we got now,
the one we had before as well. I mean, Idiocracy
was a documentary. It wasn't a comedy. It's become
a real thing, even down to the Crocs. So I hope
now that we're finally going to take a step back
and really, and this is where the younger generation
comes in. They understand this a lot more and
they're course correcting our generation of,
you know, what is most important, whether it's
recruitment in the first responder professions
or whether it's the actual state of the nation.
So now that this pendulum swung all the way from
some of these extreme conversations that were
being forced on us, as the pendulum comes into
the middle, it goes back to, as we said, the
very things from ancient wisdom, from the religious
scriptures. kindness, compassion, empathy, community.
Those are the tenants that the humanity has been
built on. That's why we're still here today.
If it's all about war and combat, we'd all be
dead. We would have smited ourselves off the
planet. So I hope that we will have this kind
of, as you said, heart -led revolution now where
we start realizing that we got to change the
way that we even elect these people so that companies
can't line their pockets and they're forced upon
us. Yeah, yeah, exactly right. And, you know,
we're kind of, it's been interesting watching
Canadian politics in particular in response to,
you know, the current sort of tremors in the
relationship between our two nations politically.
And Canadians, God bless us, we're like not very
good at patriotism. You know, we're not flag
wavers, we're not. You know, you're not going
to drive down the average Canadian street and
see flags hanging from people's doorsteps and
that sort of thing. And, you know, every now
and then we rally around a hockey team and that's
about the extent of it. And so Canadian patriotism,
in my estimation anyway, has been it's a lost
art. You know, last time I remember seeing it.
in any meaningful way was in Vancouver when Vancouver
Whistler hosted the 2010 Winter Olympics. But
again, it's around sport, right? Not just the
concept of nationhood. But it's been interesting
watching the Canadian response to the current
goings on with the tariff trade war and whatnot.
And these assertions about, you know, fentanyl
from Canada and illegal immigrants from Canada
and all this kind of stuff. It's been really
fascinating to watch because Canadians are really
gelling, right? Like they're really, nothing
brings a people together like an external threat.
And, you know, when you've got a sitting president
of the United States talking about annexation,
nothing irks, you know, 40 million people quite
like that. So it's been fascinating watching
that. And our last government administration
prior to our current prime minister's election
left a lot to be desired. I think there's good
argument for whether intentional or not, that
it was a very divisive regime. And so watching
this new administration kind of... roll out their
approach and their style has been a nice change
of pace as well. It's a bit of a breath of fresh
air, frankly. I'm buoyed by the fact that Canadians
are finding their footing again as a people.
It's nice to see. I would have loved to have
seen what it was like to be Canadian during times
like World War II. Um, and, and perhaps this
is, this is that moment for, for our generation
and, and the, the, the subsequent generations,
uh, you know, time will, time will, of course,
time will of course tell. Um, but, uh, you know,
it gets me thinking about the sort of broader
planet, uh, and, and our ability to come together
as one human people. And, um, and I don't, I'm
not talking about like one world order and all
this other. you know, stuff that's out there
on various parts of the internet. I'm just talking
about as a, as a, as humanity, right. As, as,
as human beings coming together and, and I'm
still not sure how we're going to do that. I,
you know, I think we're, I think we're years
away from some kind of event that might, might
gel humanity. um, more closely together. I think
that's the ultimate evolution though. It's like
where we all, we all see each, each other as
the unique and very cool, um, beautiful human
beings that we are, uh, whatever flag we operate
under, whatever geography we find ourselves born
into, uh, or immigrate to. Um, you know, I think
that's, that's where, that's where we're headed.
Uh, I hope to see it in my lifetime. Um, But
I feel like my role is in whatever small way
I can in my small corner of the world to do everything
I can to lead with empathy, compassion, love,
caring, and authenticity in every single moment
of every day. If I'm doing that and that encourages
other people to do it, or if more of us are doing
it, then eventually we get to where we need to
be as a people. I got to ask you though, James,
and again, I started to flip the script here,
dude, but I was just having a chat with a friend
of mine the other day. Do you remember all the
hubbub around the orbs and UAPs and all that
sort of stuff off the East Coast in November
and December? last year vaguely i think because
i know joe rogan you know gets stuck in every
time that topic comes up but uh yeah yeah yeah
it's not something that's normally on my radar
no okay well anyway i'm just like where did that
go where are the aliens now aren't they supposed
to be coming they were sick of all the politics
too they fucked back off to their plans they're
like we're gonna hang around oh wait wait that
administration didn't go the way we wanted it
to we're out of here for a while Well, I just
want to flip it back to you before we can. I
want to hit one more topic, then talk about some
of your healing story after this issue that you
had. But before we do, talk to me about your
journey into border services. And then I'd love
to debunk some of these myths that you're hearing
about the Canadian border from either way. Some
of the things that are a challenge and some of
the myths that you're hearing that actually aren't
truthful. Okay. Well, my journey into it isn't
terribly exciting. I didn't wake up one day and
go, gosh, I really want to protect the border.
As a kid, and in high school in particular, I
was gravitating towards law enforcement as a
career. And through life circumstances, early
20s, I didn't find my way there directly. I worked
a few different jobs doing different things.
And then I ended up in the casino industry working
security and surveillance, which was a little
more aligned in terms of competencies. And then,
God bless my mom. She phoned me up one day and
said, hey, it was customs at the time, Canada
customs at the time. And I said, my friend works
there. She thinks you do really well at it. You
should apply. They're hiring. So I'm like, okay.
So I, I, you know, I applied and went through
the process and, um, you know, kept getting screened
into the next stage, the next stage, the next
stage. And then, uh, you know, finally they call
me up and said, Hey, we, we want to offer you
a position. I'm like, okay, great. Um, and so
I started, uh, I started my career in uniform
at the Vancouver national airport in obviously,
uh, just outside of Vancouver. It's in Richmond,
BC. Uh, and I worked there for, uh, uh, about
a year and a half, including our academy time.
Then I moved to the land border for several years
across from Washington, so we border Washington.
Then I moved from there into immigration enforcement,
so plainclothes work. And then from there, a
couple of promotions and into intelligence work,
which is where I finished my career. Debunk,
debunk. So I spent eight years working in intelligence.
And so my job was to run a team of... intelligence
officers, intelligence analysts, and part of
my team's responsibilities were focused exclusively
on opioids and synthetic drugs. The landscape,
I'm not talking out of school here. I'm not sharing
any classified or protected information when
I say it's all publicly available. The state
of things as it was, now my knowledge is a little
bit dated. Um, cause I've been out for over a
year, but, um, BC is the Asian hub, uh, for commercial
imports, uh, as well as, you know, passenger
arrival and that kind of stuff, right? It's North
America's, um, one of North America's largest
Asian hubs. And so the reality, the reality of
the fentanyl situation is, uh, based on my experience
is, uh, precursor chemicals are imported. large,
large scale, large, large quantity to Canada
into BC and specific. They are then utilized
for the purposes of synthesizing fentanyl, synthesizing
methamphetamines. And then those, and I'll say
this, synthesizing those drugs in quantities
that far exceed what our domestic demand would
be. And to some degree, those drugs are exported
to various nations, including the United States.
As far as where the significant threat to the
United States lies with respect to those kinds
of drugs being smuggled in to the U .S., it's
certainly Canada is a player. But Canada is not
your biggest problem, right? So that's kind of
the reality. What's been a little frustrating
to watch is our government's response to the
US administration's stance on this, throwing
more people at the land border. And, you know,
leasing some helicopters for the RCMP so they
can fly around along the land border and try
and spot people is probably, in my opinion, not,
well, not probably. It is absolutely not the
best way to address this threat that is very
real and very present. And they're missing the
boat, frankly, literally. Missing the boat because
that's where the efforts need to be. That's where
the resources need to go. But it's not as sexy
and not as easy to point to the public and say,
hey, look, see what we're doing? By having a
bunch of analysts crunch through a whole bunch
of commercial data and try and find out which
container of any number of thousands on any number
of thousands of ships has in it a few barrels
of, you know. uh aniline or uh t -box for ap
or for piperidone or because none of that shit's
sexy right no one thinks that's cool the public
doesn't understand it as well as they understand
you know a trophy shot in front of a few bricks
of coke so um it's From the outside looking in,
pretty frustrating. I'm grateful that I'm not
in that position anymore and holding any responsibility
for addressing it. I did my time. I'm proud of
my service. But, you know, if you really want
to, in my opinion, if you really want to address
the threat, our eyes need to be squarely trained
on the source of those chemicals. And that means
a whole of government. approach to addressing
um addressing the issue with with our number
one source nation for those uh for those chemicals
and that is absolutely china i think flipping
it around and i think i'm sure gaba mate i know
johan hari for example are a huge proponents
of this But if you, again, like we talk with
governments, if you take a step back as humanity,
firstly, educate yourself on the beginning of
drug prohibition. It was on the absolute failure,
the back end of the failure of alcohol prohibition.
We only know Al Capone because of the crime that
came out of prohibition. And you look at Harry
Anslinger, and it was out of racism and job justification
that that even started with the reefer madness.
And then it progressed and progressed. You know,
I know our professions we see. you know, the
ripple effect of prohibition. And so now you
empower the shitbags of the world, the underworld,
because you force your addicts into the shadows
to get their, whatever they need, as you said,
whatever's going to fill that void from the worst
people. And so one of the things that I think
would be so effective, and Portugal is a perfect
example of this, they had a massive success,
is just to basically stop making addiction. Now,
it doesn't mean selling and smuggling. No, absolutely.
That's what Portugal did. They freed up all the
resources to come down on the smugglers and the
dealers with a freaking iron fist. But their
addicts, they poured all their resources into
mental health counseling, addiction counseling,
job creation, housing. And they, within less
than 10 years, went from the worst addiction
crisis to the lowest. I keep saying I'm going
to look this up. I haven't yet. But either in
Europe or in the world, I forget. Either way,
incredible. So to me, one of the ways that you
cut the head off the snake is you remove the
consumer. If those people that are using fentanyl
in whatever capacity can now go through a legal
medicinal route because they're in the hands
of the medical community, you've just cut the
legs from whether it's the Mexican cartels, the
Chinese fentanyl importers. So but you never
hear that conversation. And even with the American
police and why they look like they're going to
war, because we've created this horrendous condition
on the street. I mean, every single day we see
police officers murdered left, right and center.
And a big part of that is our prohibition laws.
So I think that's another really interesting
going back to the kindness, compassion, empathy
is to stop locking up addicts and empower law
enforcement to, as you said, get to the source,
but also. Cut the legs out of the consumer, like
send them into addiction counseling who then,
you know, become functioning members of society
that are paying taxes and are happy and healthy.
Yeah, on a personal level, I completely agree.
So the province of BC, I want to say it's about
two years ago now, a little over two years ago,
applied for an exemption under Canada's drug
laws to decriminalize personal possession of
all controlled substances. And that includes
personal, personal possession of fentanyl under
certain, under certain weight. And I had, I had
a physician, a Canadian physician, Dr. Scott
McDonald on the show. He runs the Providence
Crosstown Clinic in Vancouver, which works with,
works with substance, substance users. And, and
he was, he was like you very adamant that decriminalizing
was absolutely, no, not surprising. He's a physician,
so his perspective is very different. He was
adamant that decriminalization was an absolute
necessary component of a broader set of policies
that will help us address this problem. And so
I don't disagree. I think you're right. I think
he's right. And I think the statistics in British
Columbia are starting to bear the fruits of that
policy change. That was one of the things I was
struggling with personally and professionally
in the sort of latter years of my career was,
you know, here I am in charge of a team of people
whose sole raison d 'etre is to target, identify,
and generate intelligence, helps our frontline
folks seize the chemicals that are being used
to make stuff that's killing British Columbians
and Canadians and Americans in the hundreds and
thousands. And every year, the BC coroner would
produce their statistics, and that number kept
growing and growing and growing despite our efforts.
And it's ridiculous to think that my small team,
mighty though it was, was was the linchpin for,
for the overall success of those numbers dropping.
That's it. I'm not naive enough to think that,
but, but I kept hoping that, you know, maybe,
maybe just maybe, um, we would be nibbling away
at those numbers in some way. Cause we were getting
significant results. My team was absolutely phenomenal
at what they were doing. And, um, we were getting
very significant results and they were awarded
by, by the agency president as a result. Um,
uh of their of their efforts and success but
it's just that number kept growing and growing
and growing so what that tells me uh in hindsight
of course is that um enforcement alone will never
ever be the answer like it has to be it has to
be in conjunction with other other policy changes
other program uh programs that are made available
um to to work and um i'm hopeful i'm you know
i'm hopeful that As time goes on here, more and
more we'll see that. But the reality remains
that so long as there are users, legal or otherwise,
these types of substances are going to continue
to be a clear and present threat to the society
that they're being used in. And when I consider
the source of the chemicals, um, the, the nature
of the government in the, in that country and
its relationship with, uh, the U S in particular,
uh, it's pretty obvious to, you know, to anyone
who's got any sense of any of this, that, uh,
that Canada is very much being, uh, uh, is the,
is the battleground of a proxy where it's being
fought between two nations, jock jockeying for
global, global supremacy. And, and, um, and that's
unfortunate for, for those of us on this side
of the border. But it's a reality we can't duck
our heads in the sand over. And it's one I hope
that we're starting to wake up to in a way that
we've been too asleep to for far too long. Yeah,
no, I agree completely. It makes sense. I've
sat with the guy that spearheaded it in Portugal
in his office in Lisbon. And we did an interview,
did the second one a while ago. You just take
a step back and go, well, what do these people
need? And it goes back to, again, that pee under
the mattress. The addiction is just the thing
that they're filling the void with. So you get
that person healed. They don't need that thing
anymore. But you're not going to heal them by
sending them into some dark alley buying whatever
it is that they need. You heal them by bringing
them, again, that community response, enveloping
them and helping them heal. But also you've got
to understand that some people are just too far
gone. that you can't save everyone. That's the
goal. But what happens more often than not is
they'll piecemeal it here. I mean, our healthcare
system is a perfect example, the Obamacare thing.
They'll half -ass it and then go, see, it doesn't
work. And that's what they do in some of the
cities here where they said they decriminalized,
but they didn't pour money into the healing element.
You know, the addiction counseling, the mental
health counseling, the job creation. When you
have these people that are drowning in addiction,
you don't just take away the thing or tell them
they can use it without being arrested. You've
got to be, well, let's find out why you're using
it. And let's not give you a criminal record
so you can get a job and you can find housing,
get you back on your feet. And now you're thriving
and your bucket, you know, those holes are starting
to be patched and you don't need this opioid
or this alcohol or whatever it is anymore. So
it just makes perfect sense. And the real, you
know, fuck you to an enemy nation is to have
a nation of healthy, happy people that are able
if they cross into your barriers. But the way
you destroy the ability to protect your nation
is you allow a mental health crisis, an opioid
crisis, an obesity crisis. So look in the mirror,
ask yourself, oh, you know, that little snake
you've got, you know, sticker on your car, don't
tread on me. Well, how much resistance is there
to someone treading on you? Are you living the
kind of life that's going to allow you to, God
forbid, actually protect your family if that
happens? So this all circles around again to
the community, the village, the tribe, you know,
are these decisions empowering your nation or
are they destroying it? And this drug prohibition
has absolutely destroyed it. So I think this
is a really important conversation. If you really
are an American, you value the health of your
people and the security of your nation, then
we have to turn this around because there's an
80 plus year longitudinal study of if it works.
And clearly it doesn't because our streets are
ravaged with addiction and gangs. So it's time
to have a different approach. Yeah. I completely
agree, James. I completely agree. I don't know
how long it'll be before we get there, but you
know, little by little incremental change, right?
That's the, that's the hope anyway. But we still,
you have to have the hammer. You have to have
the hammer on that large scale stuff, right?
Because it's being leveraged as a weapon. A hundred
percent. And this is where this is the thing,
like rather than a completely overtaxed police
force, you stop them having to arrest addicts.
Now we saw this in Portugal, the court system,
the resources, you know, everything gets focused
on the dealers and the smugglers. Boom. You know,
now you've you've outpowered them. So I know
we're getting short of time. I just want to kind
of revisit. You mentioned about the struggles
a year ago. You mentioned about finding a counselor
as we sit here now. What were, what was your
own personal toolbox of things that you found
that have really allowed you to, to come out
of that, you know, that inner monologue of considering
the pistol to where we are sitting today? Um,
obviously having a support network, um, is a
big, big part of that. My wife has been an absolute,
absolute rock, just an absolute champion, um,
throughout, uh, my mother, my sister. um, as
well, like, uh, you know, having, and, and having,
having friends kind of step out of, step out
of the woodwork that I had, I didn't expect would
be there for me. Um, uh, where other friends
didn't, you know what I mean? Friends, friends
I expected might faded away friends that I didn't
expect stepped in. So that, that was huge. Um,
but, but personally, uh, I I've said this, I've
said this on another show as well. Uh, I there's
three wins a day. I try and get. Physical win,
a mental win, and a spiritual win. So every day
I get up and journal, every single day, even
if I don't feel like it, even if I don't think
I have anything to rattle out of my brain. I
get up and I just start writing. And it's amazing
how many pages you can fill up when you just
start and let go. So I journal every day. That's
my mental win. Physical win, I love to swim.
So I try and get to 1 ,000 to 1 ,200 meters in
a day. help the body, um, in a, in a healthy
way. And spiritually, uh, I, I sometimes fall
down on this, but, but mindfulness practice throughout,
throughout any given day, I try and bring mindfulness
to everything I'm doing, but I also try and,
um, carve time out to, to meditate. Um, and what
I, what I find that allows me to do is, is I
mentioned kind of closer to the I'd observed
my thought as an observer versus as part of my
identity. And meditation has allowed me to strengthen
that to the point where for the most part, depending
on the circumstances or the external kind of...
I hate using the word trigger, but the external
triggers that are going on, for the most part,
it's allowed me to observe all of my thoughts
and not seize onto the negative ones and just
allow them to float, you know, like so many clouds
in the sky kind of thing. And it's those tools
for me that have been absolutely fundamental
to my recovery. Everyone's going to find their
own mechanisms, but I think journaling overall
is probably one of the most helpful things that
anyone can do. It's amazing how receiving and
welcoming an empty page is for anything you're
thinking or feeling at any time, whatever that
works out to be for you in terms of schedule
and routine and that sort of thing. It's been
huge. And then, and I have, you know, I have
regular check -ins with my therapist as well,
just to make sure I'm staying level and steady.
It's amazing that you had that insight about
observing the thought. I do headspace quite a
lot in meditation. And the program I'm doing
at the moment is called Restlessness. And he,
Andy Podicom literally talks about that. When
you have these thoughts, just go, oh, that's
a thought. And just having that moment really.
shuts down that monkey mind and i have like crazy
monkey mind monkey on crack but um you observe
it and then you stop fighting it but you know
i've talked about this i'll keep this very brief
so i know you got to go the terrifying thing
that you hear from so many people with that whole
suicide ideation is that their reality becomes
distorted after that perfect storm of all the
things that we've discussed And they truly believe,
for example, that they are the reason for their
family's pain. And if I just remove myself, so
the ability to just be able to step back and
see that voice for what it is rather than your
entire reality. I mean, that little chink there,
I mean, was for you was, was lifesaving. If you'd
been totally in it, you could have gone to the
office and done what it told you to do. Yep.
Truly, truly. And that's the key, right? Like
it's, I use the bus bench analogy. So you're
sitting on the bus bench and you're watching
cars go by, cars go by, cars go by, and then
a bus go by and cars go by and cars go by. You
don't have to get in any of those vehicles. You
can just sit there and watch them. And that's
what, that's what, that's what you're thinking
is, you know, your, your, your mind does exactly
what it's meant to do. It's a, it's a, it's an
analyzer. It's a problem solver. It's a solution
giver, right? So it will always do that. You
don't have to control it. You're in fact not
controlling it. It's just doing what it does.
And not dissimilar to your heart. You don't will
your heart to pump blood around your body. You
don't will your lungs to suck in oxygen and expel
carbon dioxide, right? They just do what they're
designed to do because the human body is a perfectly
designed organism. And it has everything available
to it that you need to survive, including your
mind, your job. is to recognize that you are
not the components of your body, just as you
are not the thoughts of your mind. You are the
observer of all of it. And the moment I, and
I remember this moment, I stepped into it so
clearly, man. The moment I stepped into being
fully present in every moment, everything changed.
Absolutely everything changed. And now that's
kind of where I reside. It's pretty cool. Absolutely.
Well, for people listening, so I can round off
and let you go, where can they find you or reach
out to you? And then what about the 10 -8 podcast?
Sure. So the Team 10 -8 podcast is available
on all your platforms, just as this excellent
show is. And James, thank you so much, man, for
having me on. It's been a real pleasure and an
honor to sit and chat with you this last while.
And I hope we get to do it again. But you can
check out the podcast. We're online, team108
.com. We're on all the different platforms. Social
media is at team108. You can find me on LinkedIn
at Christian Lane and on Instagram at TheRealChristianLane.