WEBVTT

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This episode is sponsored by TeamBuildr, yet

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another company that's doing great things for

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into TeamBuildr, listen to episode 1032 with

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Melissa Mercado or go to teambuilder .com. And

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I'll spell that to you because it's not as you

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think, T -E -A -M -B -U -I -L -D -R .com. Welcome

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to the Bionish Shield podcast. As always, my

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name is James Geering and this week it is my

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absolute honor to welcome on the show Canadian

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Border Services Officer and the man behind the

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10 -8 podcast, Christian Lane. Now in this conversation

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we discuss a host of topics from his journey

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into law enforcement, the multiple roles he held

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as he progressed through the ranks, immigration,

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drug prohibition, human trafficking, transition,

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and so much more. Now, before we get to this

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incredible conversation, as I say every week,

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please just take a moment, go to whichever app

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you listen to this on, subscribe to the show.

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Leave feedback and leave a rating. Every single

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five -star rating truly does elevate this podcast,

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therefore making it easier for others to find.

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And this is a free library of over 1 ,100 episodes

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now. So all I ask in return is that you help

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share these incredible men and women's stories

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so I can get them to every single person on planet

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Earth who needs to hear them. So with that being

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said... I introduce to you Christian Lane. Enjoy.

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Well, Christian, I want to start by saying two

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things. Firstly, thank you to our mutual friend,

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Steve Farina, for connecting us. And secondly,

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to welcome you onto the Behind the Shield podcast

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today. Well, thank you very much, James. It's

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an absolute honor to be here. Full disclosure,

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I obviously wanted to prepare myself a little

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bit, so I gave a few episodes a listen, and I

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was tickled to hear Thanos. um on one of the

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episodes uh josh brolin you had on uh which is

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fantastic i'm a huge marvel fan um and and i

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think josh brolin's just terrific actor anyway

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but it was really really cool to hear to hear

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him on and and hear um you know the galaxy's

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uh most hideous villain um coming live and live

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and in person on the on the behind the shield

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podcast and steve's just a beautiful person he's

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a beautiful human being i i had the pleasure

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of interviewing him on my show uh some years

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back and uh and we've stayed connected ever since

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so i'm grateful to him uh for the connection

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with you absolutely and likewise all right well

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then very first question where on planet earth

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are we finding you this afternoon At the moment,

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you find me in the beautiful Fraser Valley, British

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Columbia, just about an hour and a bit east of

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Vancouver, which most, well, I would hope most

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American listeners are familiar with. We've hosted

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the Olympics and Expo and all manner of other

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events. But yeah, just an hour east, sort of

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a suburb bedroom community of Vancouver, but

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soon to be relocating to Vancouver Island, an

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even more beautiful place to live in BC. Beautiful.

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Well, I hope most Americans know Vancouver for

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the Groover from Vancouver, Brian Adams, who

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I think is probably your national treasure. So,

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okay, you're kind of dating yourself a little

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bit with the Brian Adams reference. But yeah,

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you're absolutely right. The Groover from Vancouver,

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also home to Michael Bublé and the great Ryan

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Reynolds, who incidentally I went to high school

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with. He was two grades back of me, but we were

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definitely in the same high school together.

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He was in my sister's grade. Lovely to see a

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Kitsilano secondary alumni making it as far and

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as famous as he's made it. Brilliant. What does

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your sister remember, if anything? Was he a kind

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of class clown back then or was it kind of late

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blooming? He was definitely a theater kid. She

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was very much into the performing arts. I tried

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to go the sports path. We can talk about that

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a little later on. I shouldn't have. I'm more

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into the creativity and theatrical side of things,

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as it turns out. But no, he was very much a theater

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kid. And one of those talents that I think everybody

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knew was going to go somewhere. It wasn't just

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a mom and dad sweetheart. playing roles in in

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community plays and school plays and that sort

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of thing that you could tell you could tell he

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had he had something brilliant all right well

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let's go to your early life then so tell me where

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you were born and tell me a little bit about

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your family dynamic what your parents did how

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many siblings okay uh so i was born and raised

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in vancouver british columbia um to My father,

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who was English born, moved to Canada with his

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folks at about the age of 11. His dad, my grandfather,

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a World War II veteran, flew from 39 to 45 in

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the RAF. Survived as a navigator on board Lancaster,

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survived every sortie he'd flown, which statistically

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is... It certainly runs counter to the survival

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rates for most flyers during that war. And my

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mom, Canadian born, born to parents of Scottish

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and Irish ancestry. So I'm a true British mutt

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through and through. And I have a younger sister,

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as I mentioned. We're 18 months apart. It was

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funny. I was chatting with my mom. We speak daily

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and she was sharing this story with me about

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when my sister was born and I was 18 months old.

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So, you know, a year and a half can't be too

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faulted for my actions at the time, but I was

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not happy that my sister was around. This was

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not a welcome experience in my life, evidently.

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And I made it very, very well known to my mother

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in particular that I was very displeased with.

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The three of us being disrupted by a fourth.

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You know, in terms of family dynamics, my parents

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divorced when I was 10 or 11 years old. And my

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dad in particular was, I'm putting this very

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delicately, but he's no longer with us. He passed

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away in 2017, but he was a very difficult individual.

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You've heard the expression, hurt people, hurt

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people. Yes. Yeah. My dad was hurting a lot,

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a lot. And that framed a childhood for me and

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my sister. And I won't speak for her experience

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because this is the interesting thing about family

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dynamics is two children can grow up in the exact

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same home and the exact same address, experience

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the exact same. circumstances at home but they're

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seeing it very very differently like their life

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that they lead is very different than their siblings

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life so i don't want to speak for her uh she

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and i talk about this a fair bit and and uh but

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but but dad was dad was dad was not easy to be

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around he um at his best it was usually after

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he smoked a joint um out the garage he was you

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know doing puttering or whatever he was doing

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in the garage and then he'd come back in and

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He was in much better spirits, but more often

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than not, something was going on in his life,

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something was going on inside him that he didn't

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like and didn't know how to address in a healthy

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way. He visited that typically out through anger

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and aggression and physical and emotional abuse

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to me, my sister, and my mom. Grew up in a home

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that certainly had its share of domestic violence.

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And that kind of set the foundation for, you

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know, as it does for all of us, right? When we're

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growing up, we're learning how to be as human

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beings. the number one and two teachers we'll

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ever, we'll ever see in our lifetimes are, are

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our first, are our parents. Right. And then a

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little bit, our siblings and then school chums

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and that sort of thing. So, you know, the foundation,

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when the foundation's rocky, as I've learned,

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when the foundation's a little bit rocky and.

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you're building on top of that rocky foundation,

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eventually everything is going to come down.

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And as a firefighter, I'm sure you can appreciate

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that too, or a former firefighter, I'm sure you

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can appreciate that too, right? The houses that

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are built on the shittiest foundations when they

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go through a significant, you know, whether it's

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an earthquake type event or a significant fire

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or structure crisis, you know, they're going

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to collapse. And that's kind of where I found

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myself at 48 years old and change. But we can

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get into that maybe a little later down the line.

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Absolutely. Well, it's interesting because I

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just last year wrote a book and I'm in the process

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of making it into a TV show. And one of the main

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themes is generational trauma. I think I don't

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think and I've just had this awakening through

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this podcast. I mean, it's not like I had this

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figured out years ago. It's listening to all

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these stories and then people on the psychology

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side as well. But for example. there's a romanticization

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of the World War II generation. And they just

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came back and they rolled up their sleeves and

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they got back to work. And then you hear about,

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and I'll ask you about yours, but you hear about

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many of these grandfathers in this case, and

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they weren't okay. How can you be okay from coming

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back from that and then just being thrust back

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into society again? Clearly, as you said, there

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were some issues in your dad's foundation. Have

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you had any ability to unpack his upbringing

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and some of those domino effects? To some degree,

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yes, but largely no. It's an interesting question

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because you're right. I think we have romanticized

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the great generation. I'm not taking anything

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away from what the men and women of that generation

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did. and the sacrifices they made and and and

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how how they stepped up and served i'm not taking

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anything away but you can't i don't see how you

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can go through a world war in however way that

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touches you without being scarred and injured

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whether physically emotionally or psychologically

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or spiritually and um you know as we've evolved

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as a society i think we're getting better slowly

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by slowly by slowly at, at understanding those

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kinds of impacts. But, you know, with, with my

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dad's family, my, so my dad grew up with three

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brothers and two adopted sisters eventually.

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And one of, one of the, the eldest brother, so

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my grandpa, when he went off to war, returned

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to his first born not being his first born gotcha

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and that was a that was a family secret that

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was kept up until my my uncle my my dad's oldest

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brother um until he passed um which gives you

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an idea of just how open or not uh you know my

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my My father's family in particular was around

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issues of any sort of significant import like

00:13:37.460 --> 00:13:41.100
that, right? Go back a little bit further. My

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great -grandmother had her special friend that

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lived with her. We called her Auntie Elsie. And

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it was only ever just a special friend, but in

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reality, they were lovers. My great -grandmother

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was a lesbian, but that wasn't talked about.

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That gives you, I think that gives a pretty accurate

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illustration of the family dynamic and how open

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it really was or not. And so unpacking the best

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I've been able to get with my dad. And it's only

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piecing little pieces of the puzzle together

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from my memory, from bits and pieces of conversations

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with his brothers, you know, and family stories

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here and there that I can. you know vaguely recall

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but but the best the best i can possibly get

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is is i think honestly my dad may have been gay

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um and and how beautiful would it have been for

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him to be able to live his life feeling like

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he could just be himself um but he couldn't and

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So when you're sitting with that kind of pain

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and you don't have anyone modeling for you, you

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don't have society supporting any healthy way

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of expressing and just being yourself and being

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accepted for who you are, how could that not

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have a negative impact on on your ability to

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just be you and then you know you add to that

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um his father my grandpa coming back from the

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war um absolutely with his own um inability to

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deal with things that he's got going on inside

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in healthy ways and um you know and a mother

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who i love my grandmother uh dearly she's a beautiful

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beautiful um woman and um and i'm so grateful

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for our relationship but but not a not an open

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caring supportive kind of nurturing person right

00:16:05.940 --> 00:16:08.860
that you're very very stereotypical stiff upper

00:16:08.860 --> 00:16:14.019
lip um you know brit right um londoner who's

00:16:14.019 --> 00:16:16.700
been through you know the blitz and you know

00:16:16.700 --> 00:16:22.519
albeit as a child but um it it's It's that kind

00:16:22.519 --> 00:16:26.179
of dynamic. No one's talking about anything deeper

00:16:26.179 --> 00:16:29.000
than surface level. No one's modeling behavior

00:16:29.000 --> 00:16:36.299
that illustrates healthy ways of being and support.

00:16:36.919 --> 00:16:40.179
You end up with what you end up with. I love

00:16:40.179 --> 00:16:43.139
that you're touching on generational trauma,

00:16:43.299 --> 00:16:48.980
man, because it's a real thing. You know, there's

00:16:48.980 --> 00:16:51.559
so much, I'm not a scientist, I'm not a psychologist,

00:16:51.580 --> 00:16:53.100
I'm not going to sit here and go into the weeds

00:16:53.100 --> 00:16:55.600
as far as studies and reports and stuff go. I've

00:16:55.600 --> 00:17:00.700
read enough of them to know that increasingly

00:17:00.700 --> 00:17:05.460
science is beginning to understand how our coding

00:17:05.460 --> 00:17:15.059
is enshrined in our DNA and how that coding transmits.

00:17:15.690 --> 00:17:18.849
generationally through the years. What James

00:17:18.849 --> 00:17:22.289
Gearing is carrying today is as much James' own

00:17:22.289 --> 00:17:29.309
experiences and his own life as it is your forefathers

00:17:29.309 --> 00:17:33.309
and foremothers and your ancestors and the things

00:17:33.309 --> 00:17:38.069
that they've experienced. I have a better understanding

00:17:38.069 --> 00:17:42.730
now of why I was living life the way I was living

00:17:42.730 --> 00:17:47.099
it. up to a certain point um it's as much my

00:17:47.099 --> 00:17:50.039
own stuff as it is the stuff of my ancestors

00:17:50.039 --> 00:17:53.779
it really is interesting i mean when you when

00:17:53.779 --> 00:17:55.460
you hear the old you know argument of nature

00:17:55.460 --> 00:17:59.400
versus nurture as we sit here now in 2020 25

00:17:59.400 --> 00:18:04.259
excuse me 2025 the answer is yes It's nature

00:18:04.259 --> 00:18:07.319
and nurture. And with the whole epigenetics understanding

00:18:07.319 --> 00:18:09.599
now, we realize that, you know, we used to be

00:18:09.599 --> 00:18:11.579
told with DNA was DNA and it was set and that

00:18:11.579 --> 00:18:14.640
was it. But now we realize that it can actually

00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:17.400
morph. And so, for example, people say, well,

00:18:17.480 --> 00:18:19.599
you know, there's a history of alcoholism in

00:18:19.599 --> 00:18:22.119
my family and therefore kind of the subtext is,

00:18:22.180 --> 00:18:24.200
well, I'm doomed to get it too. That's not the

00:18:24.200 --> 00:18:26.759
case. There's a history of trauma in your family

00:18:26.759 --> 00:18:29.619
that created alcoholism that absolutely is shaping

00:18:29.619 --> 00:18:33.450
the DNA as well. But as much as it turned, you

00:18:33.450 --> 00:18:37.190
know, it pushed towards addiction, it can absolutely

00:18:37.190 --> 00:18:40.049
be turned to be pushing away from addiction as

00:18:40.049 --> 00:18:44.150
well. So I think understanding these dominoes

00:18:44.150 --> 00:18:46.150
and realizing that you can stop them. I think

00:18:46.150 --> 00:18:49.769
this is the most exciting argument for our generation

00:18:49.769 --> 00:18:54.170
is. we can do the work ourselves so that we stop

00:18:54.170 --> 00:18:56.369
passing it on to our children the buck stops

00:18:56.369 --> 00:18:58.869
here as it were and is it a perfect you know

00:18:58.869 --> 00:19:01.069
period absolutely not of course there'll be some

00:19:01.069 --> 00:19:04.789
some you know um seeping into that next generation

00:19:04.789 --> 00:19:08.190
but you absolutely can minimize the effect but

00:19:08.190 --> 00:19:10.430
only when we look in the mirror and then i think

00:19:10.430 --> 00:19:12.390
then you look beyond the mirror and then forgive

00:19:12.390 --> 00:19:15.210
yourself for the upbringing that you have and

00:19:15.210 --> 00:19:17.009
then forgive your parents for the upbringing

00:19:17.009 --> 00:19:19.750
that they have and realize as you said earlier

00:19:19.750 --> 00:19:24.430
for example if there was a world war that british

00:19:24.430 --> 00:19:26.630
and americans and australians and obviously you

00:19:26.630 --> 00:19:28.369
know all the other allied nations and then the

00:19:28.369 --> 00:19:32.619
people in the axis yep canadians exactly that

00:19:32.619 --> 00:19:35.440
they were all a part of that's only really two

00:19:35.440 --> 00:19:38.579
generations back so of course there's going to

00:19:38.579 --> 00:19:40.559
be a ripple effect so i think that talking about

00:19:40.559 --> 00:19:42.759
world war ii from a mental health point of view

00:19:42.759 --> 00:19:46.140
is an extremely important part of this equation

00:19:46.140 --> 00:19:48.759
because yes you know your own childhood may have

00:19:48.759 --> 00:19:52.059
been x but you know as you said our grandparents

00:19:52.059 --> 00:19:55.140
generation were being bombed in london or were

00:19:55.140 --> 00:19:58.099
flying over germany or whatever the thing was

00:19:58.680 --> 00:20:01.299
And that doesn't just go away. So it's really

00:20:01.299 --> 00:20:03.819
interesting as I start exploring everyone's early

00:20:03.819 --> 00:20:06.619
life and then generations back, you see these

00:20:06.619 --> 00:20:08.880
same things over and over again. Sometimes grandma

00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:11.279
and grandpa were absolutely fine, but more often

00:20:11.279 --> 00:20:13.339
than not, of course, there was a massive toll

00:20:13.339 --> 00:20:17.700
for their service. Yeah. Yeah. And that's something

00:20:17.700 --> 00:20:23.220
I've been fascinated by as well is like, you

00:20:23.220 --> 00:20:25.839
know, okay, my history is my history. Your history

00:20:25.839 --> 00:20:31.299
is your history, right? They're obviously very

00:20:31.299 --> 00:20:34.960
different, but not everyone has a history where

00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:38.660
there is enough of that generational trauma,

00:20:38.819 --> 00:20:44.099
that inability to express, that bottling up of

00:20:44.099 --> 00:20:47.200
all of the emotions and the feelings and not

00:20:47.200 --> 00:20:49.500
being able to just be real and be authentic and

00:20:49.500 --> 00:20:52.440
be true. Not everyone's had that experience and

00:20:52.440 --> 00:20:55.009
I appreciate you touching on that. Um, the other

00:20:55.009 --> 00:20:58.049
thing I, I, you mentioned, um, sort of alcoholism

00:20:58.049 --> 00:20:59.970
and addiction and, and, and that sort of thing.

00:21:00.029 --> 00:21:02.910
There's, um, there's a, a Canadian psychologist,

00:21:03.029 --> 00:21:05.630
Polish Canadian psychologist named, uh, Dr. Gabor

00:21:05.630 --> 00:21:07.390
Mate. Are you familiar with him? Very familiar.

00:21:07.470 --> 00:21:10.390
Yes. Right. Love his work. He's a, he's a recipient

00:21:10.390 --> 00:21:13.390
of the order of Canada, which is, uh, our nation's

00:21:13.390 --> 00:21:18.210
highest civilian honor, um, and for his work

00:21:18.210 --> 00:21:21.440
in, in childhood. childhood psychology, childhood

00:21:21.440 --> 00:21:23.900
trauma, and that sort of thing. He's all over.

00:21:24.019 --> 00:21:27.279
If you're on Instagram and your feed is anything

00:21:27.279 --> 00:21:30.960
like mine, you're going to come across various

00:21:30.960 --> 00:21:33.819
interviews and bits. But he says one of the things

00:21:33.819 --> 00:21:38.319
that he talks about is addiction, whatever it

00:21:38.319 --> 00:21:41.400
is, whether it's gambling, sex, porn, drugs,

00:21:41.779 --> 00:21:46.500
whatever, alcohol. There's a delineation between

00:21:47.259 --> 00:21:50.200
How you treat addiction and how you treat the

00:21:50.200 --> 00:21:54.240
underlying reasons for, right? So you treat addiction

00:21:54.240 --> 00:22:00.000
by detox, right? The detox detoxifies the physical

00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:04.420
symptoms. Like it detoxifies the body from the

00:22:04.420 --> 00:22:07.619
dependency on whatever the substance is, right?

00:22:08.180 --> 00:22:15.279
That's how you deal with drug abuse. But it's

00:22:15.279 --> 00:22:18.640
the underlying piece. what that's driving that

00:22:18.640 --> 00:22:21.900
person to drug abuse that ultimately determines

00:22:21.900 --> 00:22:26.420
the success of that person's outcome, right?

00:22:26.700 --> 00:22:29.759
And so you can throw as many people as you want

00:22:29.759 --> 00:22:32.859
into detox programs. And yes, a lot of them will

00:22:32.859 --> 00:22:36.180
also have some mental health supports in place.

00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:42.099
But unless those supports create the relationship

00:22:42.099 --> 00:22:45.859
necessary between the patient and the therapist,

00:22:46.720 --> 00:22:50.039
to allow that patient to feel safe enough to

00:22:50.039 --> 00:22:53.380
really open up and really start to dig into the

00:22:53.380 --> 00:22:58.519
root of all of all of the pain um you know the

00:22:58.519 --> 00:23:00.440
the success rate is going to be very very low

00:23:00.440 --> 00:23:02.799
as as statistically i think is probably proven

00:23:02.799 --> 00:23:05.160
i don't have studies to show but but i'm willing

00:23:05.160 --> 00:23:07.880
to bet if you google it uh enough times you're

00:23:07.880 --> 00:23:09.500
going to come up with with really low results

00:23:09.500 --> 00:23:12.779
in terms of um uh recidivism and that sort of

00:23:12.779 --> 00:23:16.099
thing and that was uh that was something That

00:23:16.099 --> 00:23:21.740
relationship, creating that environment of safety,

00:23:21.940 --> 00:23:26.839
that was something that I came to truly appreciate

00:23:26.839 --> 00:23:29.200
and understand when I entered into therapy. I

00:23:29.200 --> 00:23:30.980
didn't go into a program. I found a therapist

00:23:30.980 --> 00:23:36.900
near my home that formed a police officer. She

00:23:36.900 --> 00:23:40.539
very quickly established that safety for me and

00:23:40.539 --> 00:23:45.529
all of a sudden the doors could open. And that's

00:23:45.529 --> 00:23:49.170
where we're missing things, I think, as a society

00:23:49.170 --> 00:23:52.470
collectively is, you know, like in British Columbia,

00:23:52.490 --> 00:23:54.849
for example, the government of the province of

00:23:54.849 --> 00:23:58.430
BC, and for American listeners, our provinces

00:23:58.430 --> 00:24:02.109
are like your states. The government of the province

00:24:02.109 --> 00:24:06.690
of BC has recently rolled out mandatory drug

00:24:06.690 --> 00:24:10.640
treatment, right? There's legislation that allows

00:24:10.640 --> 00:24:14.319
police officers and other authorities to compel

00:24:14.319 --> 00:24:16.539
people into treatment under the Mental Health

00:24:16.539 --> 00:24:19.759
Act. Okay, cool. First of all, there's not enough

00:24:19.759 --> 00:24:26.859
beds. But secondly, does the program have enough

00:24:26.859 --> 00:24:32.119
supports in place and a modality or a series

00:24:32.119 --> 00:24:36.099
of modalities available to ensure that those

00:24:36.099 --> 00:24:39.690
that are being... compelled into treatment can

00:24:39.690 --> 00:24:43.150
dig in at those roots. And I think that's ultimately

00:24:43.150 --> 00:24:48.950
where the gap exists in the mental health conversation

00:24:48.950 --> 00:24:55.190
overall. And I think it shows like this and like

00:24:55.190 --> 00:24:57.849
mine and others out there that are starting to.

00:24:58.490 --> 00:25:00.349
to make this easier to talk about and just like,

00:25:00.450 --> 00:25:02.210
Hey man, it's okay. You can have a bad fucking

00:25:02.210 --> 00:25:05.670
day. And, and we can talk about that. And, and

00:25:05.670 --> 00:25:08.349
I'm, I'm really grateful for, for those conversations.

00:25:10.410 --> 00:25:12.269
When I wrote, I was rambling. I rambled. I'm

00:25:12.269 --> 00:25:14.970
sorry, James. I rambled. No, no, no, no. It was

00:25:14.970 --> 00:25:17.940
good though. And I think, you know, I love. Learning

00:25:17.940 --> 00:25:20.299
from Gabor Mate and there's another guy, Johan

00:25:20.299 --> 00:25:22.819
Hari, who wrote Chasing the Scream, who I think

00:25:22.819 --> 00:25:25.359
is phenomenal. One of his quotes is the opposite

00:25:25.359 --> 00:25:28.359
of addiction isn't sobriety, it's connection.

00:25:28.720 --> 00:25:31.519
And I think that's absolutely, you know, 100%.

00:25:32.250 --> 00:25:34.230
But when I wrote my first book, there was an

00:25:34.230 --> 00:25:36.049
analogy I came up with because we always talk

00:25:36.049 --> 00:25:38.309
about, you know, your cup, your bucket, your

00:25:38.309 --> 00:25:40.630
backpack is overflowing in the mental health

00:25:40.630 --> 00:25:42.910
thing. And I was like, well, how does that apply

00:25:42.910 --> 00:25:45.250
if you put it in the world of addiction? There's

00:25:45.250 --> 00:25:47.690
no real way of making that analogy work for the

00:25:47.690 --> 00:25:50.470
addict. So I was thinking, well, what about if

00:25:50.470 --> 00:25:53.069
it was the reverse? What about if there was that

00:25:53.069 --> 00:25:56.470
bucket always needed to be full? And so you start

00:25:56.470 --> 00:25:58.869
off as that, you know, giggling little infant

00:25:58.869 --> 00:26:01.509
and that bucket's full and it's, you know. There's

00:26:01.509 --> 00:26:03.569
no perforations at all. And it's full of just,

00:26:03.670 --> 00:26:05.470
you know, pure joy. Everything that you need

00:26:05.470 --> 00:26:08.609
is healthy for a child. And then you have childhood

00:26:08.609 --> 00:26:11.670
trauma, you know, and then as you progress and

00:26:11.670 --> 00:26:14.069
you get a little bit older, now you start leaking

00:26:14.069 --> 00:26:16.089
some of that fluid because there's some holes

00:26:16.089 --> 00:26:18.369
in the bucket, you know, and then there's bullying.

00:26:18.430 --> 00:26:20.430
And then there's maybe some shame because you're

00:26:20.430 --> 00:26:22.630
not matching up to, you know, what the parents'

00:26:22.710 --> 00:26:25.130
expectation are or one parent left. And now wasn't

00:26:25.130 --> 00:26:26.869
I good enough? And there's all these holes, you

00:26:26.869 --> 00:26:30.210
know, being punctured. And now there's this need

00:26:30.210 --> 00:26:32.630
to fill the bucket. And so now you're scrambling

00:26:32.630 --> 00:26:34.730
for that thing. Is it alcohol? Is it gambling?

00:26:34.829 --> 00:26:36.789
Is it overtime? Is it, you know, what is the

00:26:36.789 --> 00:26:39.930
thing? And so, like you said, when you remove

00:26:39.930 --> 00:26:43.809
that filler, you still haven't plugged the holes.

00:26:44.529 --> 00:26:46.690
And so I think this is why, you know, exactly

00:26:46.690 --> 00:26:49.630
like you're talking about. When you start addressing

00:26:49.630 --> 00:26:52.910
some of the holes. things start leaking out at

00:26:52.910 --> 00:26:55.450
a slower rate. Now you have the energy and the

00:26:55.450 --> 00:26:57.829
capacity to start replacing some of your negative

00:26:57.829 --> 00:27:00.130
coping mechanisms with positive coping mechanism,

00:27:00.269 --> 00:27:03.230
which then further start patching the hole. So,

00:27:03.250 --> 00:27:06.650
I mean, yeah, if you just simply remove the thing

00:27:06.650 --> 00:27:08.950
that you are addicted to, you're just leaving

00:27:08.950 --> 00:27:10.970
a void again if you haven't addressed the thing

00:27:10.970 --> 00:27:13.609
beneath the thing, as they say. Have you ever

00:27:13.609 --> 00:27:15.470
watched that show? I don't even know if it's

00:27:15.470 --> 00:27:17.029
still on anymore, but my wife and I were sort

00:27:17.029 --> 00:27:19.569
of transfixed by it. for a period of time in

00:27:19.569 --> 00:27:23.049
our lives uh called my 600 pound life i haven't

00:27:23.049 --> 00:27:24.930
watched it but i've seen little mini clips of

00:27:24.930 --> 00:27:27.730
it so i'm aware of it i've run on those patients

00:27:27.730 --> 00:27:30.549
numerous times in real world yeah right exactly

00:27:30.549 --> 00:27:35.329
and and uh a big part of the so i think everyone

00:27:35.329 --> 00:27:37.150
knows the show right the idea is someone who

00:27:37.150 --> 00:27:40.509
is his morbid like beyond morbidly obese i guess

00:27:40.509 --> 00:27:44.369
but like super obese um you know is eligible

00:27:44.369 --> 00:27:47.700
for this this stomach shrinking surgery of some

00:27:47.700 --> 00:27:49.579
kind uh so they have to go see this particular

00:27:49.579 --> 00:27:52.559
doctor and as part of the part of the approval

00:27:52.559 --> 00:27:56.960
process they have to also go into agree to go

00:27:56.960 --> 00:27:59.839
into therapy to address again the underlying

00:27:59.839 --> 00:28:02.539
root for the addiction in this case it's food

00:28:02.539 --> 00:28:07.380
right and um Same thing. It's, it's, you know,

00:28:07.400 --> 00:28:09.259
you'd see the end of those shows. You were always

00:28:09.259 --> 00:28:10.940
rooting, always rooting, like, come on, give

00:28:10.940 --> 00:28:12.900
me the happy story. Like show me the six months

00:28:12.900 --> 00:28:15.059
later and they're doing great story. And those

00:28:15.059 --> 00:28:18.480
were few and far between largely because the

00:28:18.480 --> 00:28:24.880
hardest part of that process is the, the ability

00:28:24.880 --> 00:28:29.799
or the strength necessary to commit to staring

00:28:29.799 --> 00:28:34.309
at your demons directly in the eyes. And allowing

00:28:34.309 --> 00:28:38.730
whatever feelings arise, whatever thoughts arise,

00:28:39.170 --> 00:28:48.769
whatever emotions arise, allow yourself to sit

00:28:48.769 --> 00:28:50.970
with those feelings and allow them to move, allow

00:28:50.970 --> 00:28:54.190
them to flow, allow them to be expressed. And

00:28:54.190 --> 00:28:57.509
that's like... You know, people talk about the

00:28:57.509 --> 00:28:59.529
fear of public speaking is like the number one

00:28:59.529 --> 00:29:02.170
fear. Like you can take hardened battle weary

00:29:02.170 --> 00:29:04.910
soldiers and put them on the battlefield or,

00:29:04.950 --> 00:29:08.089
you know, big rope climbing tofu eating firemen

00:29:08.089 --> 00:29:10.789
and put them in the, you know, five alarm fires

00:29:10.789 --> 00:29:13.269
and they're fine. But the minute you put them

00:29:13.269 --> 00:29:16.049
in front of a room full of people and ask them

00:29:16.049 --> 00:29:17.809
to talk to that, to those people, they're like,

00:29:17.849 --> 00:29:20.849
Oh God, this is brutal. I think that is probably

00:29:20.849 --> 00:29:27.940
secondary only to the fear of. of remembering

00:29:27.940 --> 00:29:31.900
some of your toughest experiences personally

00:29:31.900 --> 00:29:37.779
and i was reading an article um in psychology

00:29:37.779 --> 00:29:41.720
today a few few days ago last week actually i

00:29:41.720 --> 00:29:43.980
actually texted steve about this because i thought

00:29:43.980 --> 00:29:46.660
he'd get a kick he's a marvel fan as well and

00:29:46.660 --> 00:29:50.460
this psychologist um wrote an article about the

00:29:50.460 --> 00:29:54.140
movie thunderbolts great film which is the great

00:29:54.140 --> 00:29:58.680
film like great film and um and if you i don't

00:29:58.680 --> 00:30:01.380
well spoiler alert uh if you haven't seen it

00:30:01.380 --> 00:30:06.180
uh but the the way that film addressed and this

00:30:06.180 --> 00:30:08.240
is what the psychologist was writing about in

00:30:08.240 --> 00:30:11.420
his piece in psychology today uh the way that

00:30:11.420 --> 00:30:19.779
film addressed trauma and uh healing from traumatic

00:30:19.779 --> 00:30:24.019
experience And specifically through the way they

00:30:24.019 --> 00:30:26.799
illustrated the cognitive behavioral therapy

00:30:26.799 --> 00:30:31.539
modality or CPT or CBT processing through the

00:30:31.539 --> 00:30:35.740
way the film was mastered. I thought it was absolutely

00:30:35.740 --> 00:30:38.339
masterful. I'd never seen a film do that before.

00:30:38.420 --> 00:30:40.119
And I'm sure there are films out there that have.

00:30:40.259 --> 00:30:43.039
But I'd never seen and certainly not seen a film

00:30:43.039 --> 00:30:48.140
that has as broad an appeal as a Marvel movie

00:30:48.140 --> 00:30:50.900
does. Anyway, the psychologist wrote in there.

00:30:51.319 --> 00:30:53.880
uh because he was he was like me i guess just

00:30:53.880 --> 00:30:55.940
as enamored with with how well they'd done this

00:30:55.940 --> 00:30:59.299
and um and he said something in there that really

00:30:59.299 --> 00:31:03.299
struck me he said um he was talking about trauma

00:31:03.299 --> 00:31:05.519
and then he there's a line that says post -traumatic

00:31:05.519 --> 00:31:07.519
stress disorder and then in brackets he goes

00:31:07.519 --> 00:31:13.579
a phobia of memory a fear of remembering and

00:31:13.579 --> 00:31:15.960
that's what it is like if that's that's ultimately

00:31:15.960 --> 00:31:18.559
what trauma healing is. That's what trauma recovery

00:31:18.559 --> 00:31:21.380
is about. And there's different modalities, different

00:31:21.380 --> 00:31:26.579
ways of helping people do that depending upon

00:31:26.579 --> 00:31:31.079
what resonates most for them. In my case, it

00:31:31.079 --> 00:31:37.960
was CPT, CBT. But it's that fear of remembering

00:31:37.960 --> 00:31:40.619
all these shitty things that you've been running

00:31:40.619 --> 00:31:42.920
from your entire life. And that's where addiction

00:31:42.920 --> 00:31:46.559
starts to creep in too, right? I can't run from

00:31:46.559 --> 00:31:49.660
this anymore. Nothing I'm doing out here in my

00:31:49.660 --> 00:31:52.920
external world is fixing these things. I still

00:31:52.920 --> 00:31:55.700
feel shitty inside. I still don't feel great.

00:31:55.740 --> 00:31:58.200
I'm not happy. I can't experience joy. I don't

00:31:58.200 --> 00:32:02.700
love the way I think I should. All I have left

00:32:02.700 --> 00:32:05.940
is anything else. So I'm going to try this substance

00:32:05.940 --> 00:32:08.420
kind of thing. And then I think it's, I think

00:32:08.420 --> 00:32:11.000
it snowballs from there. I mean, for me, it was,

00:32:11.000 --> 00:32:13.180
you know, I wasn't like drinking every day, but

00:32:13.180 --> 00:32:16.150
I was drinking, drinking. you know, vodka sodas,

00:32:16.150 --> 00:32:20.069
like they were straight sodas, you know, pretty

00:32:20.069 --> 00:32:22.089
well every night, right? And then going to bed

00:32:22.089 --> 00:32:26.329
late and not getting enough sleep. And, you know,

00:32:26.329 --> 00:32:29.089
it was like anything just to numb, anything just

00:32:29.089 --> 00:32:35.130
to help me suppress. And that's the worst thing

00:32:35.130 --> 00:32:36.849
you can do, right? Because I was running. I was

00:32:36.849 --> 00:32:40.529
afraid of feeling all of these repressed feelings.

00:32:40.930 --> 00:32:43.170
And that to me is probably the number one fear

00:32:43.170 --> 00:32:46.369
over public speaking, dude. It's interesting

00:32:46.369 --> 00:32:50.430
going back to the obese patient that is struggling

00:32:50.430 --> 00:32:53.730
to overcome that thing. I think this is where

00:32:53.730 --> 00:32:56.630
we're seeing so much success with psychedelics,

00:32:56.630 --> 00:33:00.150
MDMA, ketamine. I'll give you a perfect example,

00:33:00.150 --> 00:33:02.309
even though this particular example she did remember,

00:33:02.450 --> 00:33:06.279
but Johan Hari talks about... this study they

00:33:06.279 --> 00:33:08.539
did where they put all these obese patients on

00:33:08.539 --> 00:33:12.539
IV nutrients. So the whole point was if they

00:33:12.539 --> 00:33:14.619
don't consume calories, they'll lose all this

00:33:14.619 --> 00:33:17.460
weight, and it would be a huge success. And their

00:33:17.460 --> 00:33:20.380
kind of rock star of the study lost a huge amount,

00:33:20.539 --> 00:33:23.900
got down to a healthy body weight from, again,

00:33:24.019 --> 00:33:26.960
the kind of morbidly obese size. And then one

00:33:26.960 --> 00:33:29.079
day she just disappeared, stopped kind of checking

00:33:29.079 --> 00:33:31.799
in, and they finally tracked her down, and she

00:33:31.799 --> 00:33:36.829
gained a bunch of weight. One of the scientists

00:33:36.829 --> 00:33:41.390
is quite astute. And he said, hey, can I go and

00:33:41.390 --> 00:33:45.150
ask her some questions? So he's kind of unpacking

00:33:45.150 --> 00:33:46.769
what happened. And he said, well, let me ask

00:33:46.769 --> 00:33:50.109
you this. When was it that you first started

00:33:50.109 --> 00:33:53.809
eating this way? And she said, how old were you?

00:33:53.910 --> 00:33:57.230
And I think the woman said seven or whatever

00:33:57.230 --> 00:33:59.990
age she was. And said, was there anything significant

00:33:59.990 --> 00:34:01.750
that happened when you were seven years old?

00:34:01.809 --> 00:34:03.269
And she said, yeah, that was when my grandfather

00:34:03.269 --> 00:34:08.110
started molesting me. And so for her, when she

00:34:08.110 --> 00:34:09.929
got down to this healthy weight, she started

00:34:09.929 --> 00:34:14.190
getting noticed by men of the opposite sex. And

00:34:14.190 --> 00:34:17.070
she didn't like that. The psychology was there.

00:34:17.090 --> 00:34:19.550
Now take that same example, but now the brain

00:34:19.550 --> 00:34:23.349
has locked that away somewhere. You have no way

00:34:23.349 --> 00:34:25.829
of saying what is that thing. The whole princess

00:34:25.829 --> 00:34:27.969
of the pee I always refer to. You're just on

00:34:27.969 --> 00:34:30.150
a mattress. You don't realize that six mattresses

00:34:30.150 --> 00:34:33.550
down, there's this pee still. And so I think

00:34:33.550 --> 00:34:36.989
this is where it's exciting for psilocybin, MDMA,

00:34:37.130 --> 00:34:39.449
et cetera, et cetera, is for some of these people,

00:34:39.510 --> 00:34:41.050
they just don't know what that thing is in the

00:34:41.050 --> 00:34:43.429
first place. They're not even afraid to face

00:34:43.429 --> 00:34:45.349
it. They don't even know it's there. They just

00:34:45.349 --> 00:34:48.090
know how they feel. And it sounds like it's not

00:34:48.090 --> 00:34:50.230
a magic bullet, but these are really allowing

00:34:50.230 --> 00:34:53.510
people to finally get to that thing, open the

00:34:53.510 --> 00:34:56.050
padlock on that little tiny closet in their mind,

00:34:56.070 --> 00:34:59.329
and then use all those other therapies to start

00:34:59.329 --> 00:35:02.230
processing. what they found. But I think in our

00:35:02.230 --> 00:35:05.010
profession specifically, we are very good at

00:35:05.010 --> 00:35:07.349
compartmentalizing. I think this is what a lot

00:35:07.349 --> 00:35:10.150
of people struggle with. And so I think that's

00:35:10.150 --> 00:35:12.389
why veterans and firefighters and, you know,

00:35:12.389 --> 00:35:15.630
law enforcement officers are having a lot of

00:35:15.630 --> 00:35:17.769
success with this very thing that ironically

00:35:17.769 --> 00:35:23.989
is demonized by, you know, the legal element

00:35:23.989 --> 00:35:29.340
of drug prohibition. You know, sometimes there's

00:35:29.340 --> 00:35:31.980
an element of just not wanting to face the thing,

00:35:32.039 --> 00:35:34.139
but I think more often than not, a lot of people

00:35:34.139 --> 00:35:36.300
aren't even aware really what that thing is.

00:35:37.320 --> 00:35:43.539
Yeah, that's fair. And I'm sort of fascinated

00:35:43.539 --> 00:35:51.619
by the discussion in the sort of stoic paramilitary

00:35:51.619 --> 00:36:02.880
culture around. individual histories and what

00:36:02.880 --> 00:36:05.940
compels people into those kinds of professions.

00:36:06.860 --> 00:36:11.719
I was having this conversation with my therapist

00:36:11.719 --> 00:36:19.739
not long ago, and it makes me wonder if, by and

00:36:19.739 --> 00:36:24.460
large, statistically speaking, more of us in

00:36:24.460 --> 00:36:29.320
those professional environments aren't suffering

00:36:29.320 --> 00:36:34.840
from various uh traumas uh over our lifetimes

00:36:34.840 --> 00:36:38.599
and that we seek these professions this was this

00:36:38.599 --> 00:36:41.340
was this was my i'm basing this on my experience

00:36:41.340 --> 00:36:44.000
and and the more i'm learning as i as i go here

00:36:44.000 --> 00:36:47.519
but you know for me growing up in a in a chaotic

00:36:47.519 --> 00:36:50.800
family environment where i felt very much abandoned

00:36:50.800 --> 00:36:57.789
and unloved by my father and um seeking Seeking

00:36:57.789 --> 00:37:02.630
out an environment of predictable regimentality

00:37:02.630 --> 00:37:08.449
and structure and discipline and uniformity and

00:37:08.449 --> 00:37:12.570
being put in a position of trust and authority,

00:37:12.889 --> 00:37:22.969
a position generally respected by others. I ask

00:37:22.969 --> 00:37:27.000
myself these questions a lot. And, and I, I often

00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:30.420
wonder, you know, is, is, is there something

00:37:30.420 --> 00:37:33.539
to that? Like I would love for, for a more learned

00:37:33.539 --> 00:37:36.239
individual than myself, who's perhaps, you know,

00:37:36.239 --> 00:37:39.659
pushing a PhD somewhere to take that on as a

00:37:39.659 --> 00:37:43.019
thesis, because I think that's worthy of some

00:37:43.019 --> 00:37:45.420
exploration. I don't know, James, if, if that

00:37:45.420 --> 00:37:49.760
resonates with you in any way. But, but it's

00:37:49.760 --> 00:37:51.760
a question I've, I've found myself asking over

00:37:51.760 --> 00:37:54.460
and over and over again. And I would love for

00:37:54.460 --> 00:37:58.159
somebody out there who's smarter than me to,

00:37:58.199 --> 00:38:02.380
to help me figure it out because I just, I can't,

00:38:02.380 --> 00:38:04.219
I can't escape the feeling that there's something

00:38:04.219 --> 00:38:07.860
to that. Yeah. Well, I can tell you just from,

00:38:07.860 --> 00:38:10.420
you know, hearing a lot of conversations, I'll

00:38:10.420 --> 00:38:12.659
give you a perfect example is Jake Clark, who's

00:38:12.659 --> 00:38:15.619
the founder of saver warrior. The first conversation

00:38:15.619 --> 00:38:19.179
we had, he really opened my eyes to. the impact

00:38:19.179 --> 00:38:23.059
of this on so many of us in uniform and the uh

00:38:23.059 --> 00:38:27.119
supposedly the aces the adverse childhood experience

00:38:27.119 --> 00:38:31.099
score of the average uh you know member of the

00:38:31.099 --> 00:38:33.960
military or first responder is six out of ten

00:38:33.960 --> 00:38:36.880
which also aligns with the average incarcerated

00:38:36.880 --> 00:38:40.860
person so you know you have again hurt people

00:38:40.860 --> 00:38:42.900
hurt people or hurt people help people you know

00:38:42.900 --> 00:38:46.170
depending on which road they take but I think

00:38:46.170 --> 00:38:48.090
then when you start going down this, you're like,

00:38:48.150 --> 00:38:49.869
oh, okay, well, we're all screwed then because

00:38:49.869 --> 00:38:53.110
so many of us have trauma. I was in a house fire

00:38:53.110 --> 00:38:55.570
when I was four years old, almost died, had a

00:38:55.570 --> 00:38:59.130
massive wall fall on our car, just miss us. There's

00:38:59.130 --> 00:39:01.110
a second near -death experience at about, I think

00:39:01.110 --> 00:39:03.889
I was about 11 or 12 then. Horrific parents'

00:39:04.030 --> 00:39:06.989
divorce. So there was all these things. And absolutely,

00:39:07.170 --> 00:39:09.949
there's no question that those factored into

00:39:09.949 --> 00:39:13.840
me wanting to find a tribe, wanting to... to

00:39:13.840 --> 00:39:16.199
be part of the solution, wanting other people

00:39:16.199 --> 00:39:18.639
not to feel what it's like to be scared, to be

00:39:18.639 --> 00:39:20.480
hurt, to be abandoned, whatever the thing is.

00:39:20.559 --> 00:39:22.440
And then when I have that armor, you're a firefighter,

00:39:22.440 --> 00:39:23.880
you're a cop, you know, there's that kind of

00:39:23.880 --> 00:39:27.280
superhero Marvel element to it as well. I think

00:39:27.280 --> 00:39:29.679
where we're at now in this conversation, which

00:39:29.679 --> 00:39:36.139
is exciting is if left unaddressed, that early

00:39:36.139 --> 00:39:38.840
trauma absolutely can be a fracture in your foundation.

00:39:38.860 --> 00:39:40.579
Exactly what you said earlier. I've used that

00:39:40.579 --> 00:39:43.269
analogy all the time. But where there's hope

00:39:43.269 --> 00:39:46.349
is if it's addressed, I truly believe that becomes

00:39:46.349 --> 00:39:48.989
resilience and it becomes post -traumatic growth.

00:39:49.250 --> 00:39:51.969
And it's an absolute asset in uniform. You're

00:39:51.969 --> 00:39:55.269
more empathetic. You're more confident. You understand

00:39:55.269 --> 00:39:58.690
the struggles of other people and it makes you

00:39:58.690 --> 00:40:01.530
want to be able to be there and help and mitigate

00:40:01.530 --> 00:40:05.489
that issue. So this is where... I think this

00:40:05.489 --> 00:40:08.170
conversation of addressing mental health at the

00:40:08.170 --> 00:40:10.610
front door, not doing some bullshit psych test

00:40:10.610 --> 00:40:13.849
that checks a box like the MMPI, because that's

00:40:13.849 --> 00:40:17.949
never meant to determine the ability of a person

00:40:17.949 --> 00:40:19.929
to be able to be a good first responder, but

00:40:19.929 --> 00:40:22.949
have these kind of counseling conversations at

00:40:22.949 --> 00:40:25.010
the front door. You're going to PT your recruits,

00:40:25.010 --> 00:40:27.750
so why not PT their mind and get them to understand

00:40:27.750 --> 00:40:29.550
the reason that you're standing here on these

00:40:29.550 --> 00:40:32.710
diamonds is you probably have some struggles

00:40:32.710 --> 00:40:35.539
in life. And some of you may have already been

00:40:35.539 --> 00:40:38.920
able to, you know, to offset them with some healing

00:40:38.920 --> 00:40:40.619
elements already. And some of you might have

00:40:40.619 --> 00:40:44.000
just shoved them down and buried them. So understanding

00:40:44.000 --> 00:40:45.940
that, we're going to, you know, give you some

00:40:45.940 --> 00:40:47.460
counseling sessions, just like we're going to

00:40:47.460 --> 00:40:50.579
give you some PT. And so you can start, you know,

00:40:50.579 --> 00:40:53.320
processing these so that it absolutely will make

00:40:53.320 --> 00:40:55.760
you a better copper or firefighter. So I think

00:40:55.760 --> 00:40:58.199
now it's not just identifying that. I think now

00:40:58.199 --> 00:41:01.139
we have an ability to really channel that and

00:41:01.139 --> 00:41:04.570
say. That is an asset, but you have to work through

00:41:04.570 --> 00:41:06.710
it first. If you just leave it, it actually will

00:41:06.710 --> 00:41:09.150
become, as we said, a fracture in your foundation

00:41:09.150 --> 00:41:10.929
and it's going to rear its head at some point.

00:41:12.510 --> 00:41:18.070
James, as a young guy growing up and having those

00:41:18.070 --> 00:41:20.909
kinds of experiences, when did it first occur

00:41:20.909 --> 00:41:23.769
to you? Sorry to flip the script on you here,

00:41:23.869 --> 00:41:28.250
but when did it first occur to you? Hey, gosh,

00:41:28.550 --> 00:41:32.360
there's something that's not quite right. I've

00:41:32.360 --> 00:41:35.840
got to figure this out. So what's interesting,

00:41:35.980 --> 00:41:40.199
there was no aha moment for me. And so now we're

00:41:40.199 --> 00:41:43.420
reflecting again. So my real aha moment was like,

00:41:43.480 --> 00:41:46.760
okay, there's all these firefighters, police

00:41:46.760 --> 00:41:49.780
officers, paramedics, soldiers that I've had

00:41:49.780 --> 00:41:54.059
on the show that have been so deep in addiction

00:41:54.059 --> 00:41:56.719
or sat there with the pistol and the bottle of

00:41:56.719 --> 00:42:00.420
Jack Daniels. My reflection was, well, why didn't

00:42:00.420 --> 00:42:03.699
I? I know there's nothing special about me whatsoever,

00:42:04.139 --> 00:42:07.599
period, point blank. So what was different? Because

00:42:07.599 --> 00:42:09.380
there's something to be pulled away from that.

00:42:09.599 --> 00:42:13.940
And if I really look back, as we sit here today

00:42:13.940 --> 00:42:16.340
and we know a lot of the very positive coping

00:42:16.340 --> 00:42:19.219
mechanisms for all the bad shit that happened

00:42:19.219 --> 00:42:22.320
when I was young, those were also all the good

00:42:22.320 --> 00:42:24.500
things were infused there as well. So I'm one

00:42:24.500 --> 00:42:27.559
of five kids. I grew up on a farm in England.

00:42:28.079 --> 00:42:30.840
my dad was a veterinary surgeon so i had nature

00:42:30.840 --> 00:42:33.960
i had animals i had healing i had a basically

00:42:33.960 --> 00:42:36.860
a pseudo firehouse table where we all made fun

00:42:36.860 --> 00:42:39.300
of each other and you know kind of comedy was

00:42:39.300 --> 00:42:43.179
a big part um so it wasn't that i had therapy

00:42:43.179 --> 00:42:45.579
and you know emdr and all that kind of thing

00:42:45.579 --> 00:42:49.480
it was just that i won the you know the the address

00:42:49.480 --> 00:42:52.739
lottery i grew up in a family that you know in

00:42:52.739 --> 00:42:57.239
in one element was definitely not healthy but

00:42:57.239 --> 00:42:59.920
an other element was and so those two like i

00:42:59.920 --> 00:43:03.739
said for all the bad shit it got processed now

00:43:03.739 --> 00:43:07.539
you take someone else who they didn't have that

00:43:07.539 --> 00:43:09.519
other side they didn't have the ability to grow

00:43:09.519 --> 00:43:12.340
up on a british farm and you know be around horses

00:43:12.340 --> 00:43:15.960
and dogs and so that stuff got buried down that's

00:43:15.960 --> 00:43:20.199
when james and you know steve are on the same

00:43:20.199 --> 00:43:23.219
exact track. James is doing okay. And Steve starts

00:43:23.219 --> 00:43:27.239
struggling and spiraling downwards. So I think

00:43:27.239 --> 00:43:29.219
there's so much value in, in the people that

00:43:29.219 --> 00:43:31.820
haven't struggled to reflect and go, well, why

00:43:31.820 --> 00:43:34.280
didn't I, because it's not that you're a better

00:43:34.280 --> 00:43:36.179
human. It's not that, Oh, you were just made

00:43:36.179 --> 00:43:37.599
of different stuff. Like you hear people say

00:43:37.599 --> 00:43:40.900
that's bullshit. Absolutely bullshit. It just

00:43:40.900 --> 00:43:43.099
means that you were fortunate enough to have

00:43:43.099 --> 00:43:46.219
some healing modalities woven in, whether it

00:43:46.219 --> 00:43:48.179
was deliberately as an adult or whether it was,

00:43:48.219 --> 00:43:52.440
you know, by pure accident as a child. So that's

00:43:52.440 --> 00:43:54.300
what my conversation has always been is like,

00:43:54.320 --> 00:43:56.360
why wasn't I? Like, I've been dark. Don't get

00:43:56.360 --> 00:43:59.219
me wrong. I've got, you know, to a deeply depressed

00:43:59.219 --> 00:44:01.820
state. I went through a divorce, had an issue

00:44:01.820 --> 00:44:06.480
with my son, getting completely illegally Baker

00:44:06.480 --> 00:44:10.619
acted as a middle schooler by his school. An

00:44:10.619 --> 00:44:12.480
act now, if they did it again, the people that

00:44:12.480 --> 00:44:14.519
are responsible will be in prison, basically

00:44:14.519 --> 00:44:17.389
kidnapped my child. So there was some, you know,

00:44:17.409 --> 00:44:18.869
don't get me wrong, there was some fucking dark

00:44:18.869 --> 00:44:22.730
days, but it wasn't the darkest of dark. It wasn't

00:44:22.730 --> 00:44:25.230
drown into a bottle. It wasn't, you know, think

00:44:25.230 --> 00:44:28.389
about putting a gun in my mouth. And so I think

00:44:28.389 --> 00:44:31.369
this is it, is realizing that just like you've

00:44:31.369 --> 00:44:33.800
talked about, and we'll unpack in a minute. These

00:44:33.800 --> 00:44:36.780
healing modalities do work, but everyone's toolbox

00:44:36.780 --> 00:44:39.239
is different. And mine's very nature focused.

00:44:39.320 --> 00:44:42.019
That is what seems to work for me is, is the

00:44:42.019 --> 00:44:45.599
outdoors and exercise and, you know, my dog and,

00:44:45.619 --> 00:44:47.760
you know, time with family and traveling. And,

00:44:47.760 --> 00:44:49.639
you know, these are things that are working,

00:44:49.659 --> 00:44:53.059
but that's again, through a lot of reflection.

00:44:53.940 --> 00:44:56.519
But yeah, so, so the point being, I never had

00:44:56.519 --> 00:44:59.099
that, Oh, I'm, I'm in a bad place. I need to

00:44:59.099 --> 00:45:02.039
get help. It was more so like. Why have I never

00:45:02.039 --> 00:45:04.599
gotten to the darkest places? What is working?

00:45:04.800 --> 00:45:06.500
And then also then for me, it's like, well, then

00:45:06.500 --> 00:45:09.219
lean more into that. That did work. So don't

00:45:09.219 --> 00:45:12.739
stop doing that thing. And even yesterday, that's

00:45:12.739 --> 00:45:15.300
the end of this kind of ramble. I've struggled

00:45:15.300 --> 00:45:18.139
very recently because my youngest is about to

00:45:18.139 --> 00:45:20.900
turn 18 and go to college. And so for the first

00:45:20.900 --> 00:45:23.079
time, we're going to have an empty home. Another

00:45:23.079 --> 00:45:26.559
layer that I never realized how awful it is.

00:45:26.840 --> 00:45:30.130
Awful, awful. So yesterday. I was absolutely

00:45:30.130 --> 00:45:33.829
in a massive funk, made myself go to jujitsu,

00:45:33.849 --> 00:45:37.949
went to the pool with my wife, went to Iron Legion,

00:45:38.030 --> 00:45:39.929
my gym, and did another strength and conditioning

00:45:39.929 --> 00:45:42.329
workout in the evening, walked my dog later that

00:45:42.329 --> 00:45:44.929
evening. So it's really kind of leaning back

00:45:44.929 --> 00:45:48.289
into those things. But massive monologue to explain

00:45:48.289 --> 00:45:51.630
that if you haven't been struggling the same

00:45:51.630 --> 00:45:54.800
as some other people, then reflect why is that

00:45:54.800 --> 00:45:57.760
case the case what can you pull out of that and

00:45:57.760 --> 00:46:00.079
then you can tell other people look i think this

00:46:00.079 --> 00:46:04.360
is why i haven't been you know to those lowest

00:46:04.360 --> 00:46:06.980
of depths maybe this is something that will work

00:46:06.980 --> 00:46:08.920
for you as well because that's it like i said

00:46:08.920 --> 00:46:11.960
to just underline my entire monologue no two

00:46:11.960 --> 00:46:15.500
people no one person is more resilient you know

00:46:15.500 --> 00:46:18.340
biologically than than another person it's about

00:46:18.340 --> 00:46:21.429
the struggles that we've had and then the fortune

00:46:21.429 --> 00:46:24.030
or lack thereof, the ability to process those

00:46:24.030 --> 00:46:29.030
struggles. How often do you cry, man? Oh, all

00:46:29.030 --> 00:46:32.030
the time. I'm a fucking cry baby in a good way,

00:46:32.050 --> 00:46:34.190
in a good way. And there's times where I'll put

00:46:34.190 --> 00:46:37.050
on films or songs just to get it out because

00:46:37.050 --> 00:46:39.469
it's that tension, you know, it's like that,

00:46:39.469 --> 00:46:41.590
that, that kind of, you know, pressure cooker.

00:46:41.670 --> 00:46:43.369
So sometimes you've got to open the relief valve.

00:46:43.949 --> 00:46:46.550
Yeah, exactly. It's, it's, um, I, I like in,

00:46:46.690 --> 00:46:49.579
um, I like in that, that, that feel, you know,

00:46:49.619 --> 00:46:52.320
and if I find it really disruptive. So what I've,

00:46:52.320 --> 00:46:53.900
what I've learned about myself over the last

00:46:53.900 --> 00:46:57.820
year is in this tracks, because if you ask my

00:46:57.820 --> 00:47:00.340
mom, she'll tell you, I was, I was a really sensitive

00:47:00.340 --> 00:47:04.099
kid. And you know, my, my therapist says, well,

00:47:04.139 --> 00:47:06.079
you're, she, she classifies me as an empath.

00:47:07.400 --> 00:47:10.880
And so, but I, but those were, those were, you

00:47:10.880 --> 00:47:14.340
know, As an empath, your superpower is you can

00:47:14.340 --> 00:47:16.199
read everybody's emotions and it really sucks

00:47:16.199 --> 00:47:20.980
sometimes because you can feel other people's

00:47:20.980 --> 00:47:24.199
pain. But I had buried that superpower for a

00:47:24.199 --> 00:47:28.320
very, very long time under this kind of masculine

00:47:28.320 --> 00:47:32.840
guise of what I thought the world needed me to

00:47:32.840 --> 00:47:36.719
be as a man kind of thing, right? And so what

00:47:36.719 --> 00:47:40.400
I found over this last year is I've been doing

00:47:40.400 --> 00:47:43.750
a lot of crying. Um, and it gets, it's like,

00:47:43.750 --> 00:47:48.829
it gets less, which is nice. Um, it's, so when

00:47:48.829 --> 00:47:52.750
I first let's back up. So a year ago, uh, March,

00:47:52.849 --> 00:47:57.530
2024, um, I was going into that new year and

00:47:57.530 --> 00:47:59.110
I was like, uh, something's not right. Like I

00:47:59.110 --> 00:48:01.130
just, I just knew something wasn't right. And,

00:48:01.190 --> 00:48:03.889
uh, and then, uh, it all kind of came to a head

00:48:03.889 --> 00:48:07.170
for me in, in March. And I had a complete, you

00:48:07.170 --> 00:48:08.750
know, I went into mental health crisis, a complete

00:48:08.750 --> 00:48:11.489
breakdown. I couldn't control. any emotion anymore

00:48:11.489 --> 00:48:15.210
um and i couldn't figure out what's wrong i didn't

00:48:15.210 --> 00:48:18.670
know why i you know it was just and then i thought

00:48:18.670 --> 00:48:20.309
okay well i could suck it up through this weekend

00:48:20.309 --> 00:48:23.210
and then i'll get back to work monday and then

00:48:23.210 --> 00:48:25.050
uh i'll go to the doc next week kind of thing

00:48:25.050 --> 00:48:31.050
and then i was in um uh i was in uh the rec center

00:48:31.050 --> 00:48:33.610
because i i like to swim as my workout i just

00:48:33.610 --> 00:48:36.329
find so much so much peace in the water and and

00:48:36.329 --> 00:48:37.869
there's a quietness to it when you're underwater

00:48:37.869 --> 00:48:40.780
and you're doing your laps and anyway um so i

00:48:40.780 --> 00:48:42.619
go through my workout and i i was completely

00:48:42.619 --> 00:48:45.340
off something wasn't right and i was showering

00:48:45.340 --> 00:48:52.300
uh after my workout and and my brain just kicked

00:48:52.300 --> 00:48:54.460
this fun little thought in my head hey man like

00:48:54.460 --> 00:48:56.059
you know how everything's going fucked up for

00:48:56.059 --> 00:48:57.739
you right now like nothing's you can't figure

00:48:57.739 --> 00:49:00.360
it out well when you get to work just grab your

00:49:00.360 --> 00:49:02.559
pistol load it and then put it to your head and

00:49:02.559 --> 00:49:07.400
squeeze the trigger and i was like Somehow I

00:49:07.400 --> 00:49:09.059
was separate from that thought though. And that

00:49:09.059 --> 00:49:11.079
was the really interesting thing. That was the

00:49:11.079 --> 00:49:16.920
first time I'd observed one of my thoughts versus

00:49:16.920 --> 00:49:23.940
identifying with the thought. And I'm also fortunate

00:49:23.940 --> 00:49:28.420
enough that I had distance from the time that

00:49:28.420 --> 00:49:31.719
that thought occurred and the means of executing

00:49:31.719 --> 00:49:35.280
the thought. So I went home and I collapsed on

00:49:35.280 --> 00:49:37.219
the floor. and told my wife, like, I need help.

00:49:37.300 --> 00:49:39.659
Like I, something, something's not right. And

00:49:39.659 --> 00:49:42.260
so all to say, I started, I started into therapy

00:49:42.260 --> 00:49:43.940
in earnest a couple of weeks after that, once

00:49:43.940 --> 00:49:46.000
I found the right, once I found the right therapist.

00:49:46.539 --> 00:49:49.079
And as she started right at the beginning, kind

00:49:49.079 --> 00:49:51.039
of like you did, man, like, so tell me about

00:49:51.039 --> 00:49:52.639
your parents. Right. I'm like, are you kidding?

00:49:53.699 --> 00:49:57.440
Okay. And right from there. And so as the weeks

00:49:57.440 --> 00:49:59.760
progressed and I'm, you know, I'm going through

00:49:59.760 --> 00:50:01.940
therapy every week and I'm journaling every day.

00:50:02.420 --> 00:50:05.929
And you know, more and more and more like at

00:50:05.929 --> 00:50:07.989
the end of every day, my wife and I do this really

00:50:07.989 --> 00:50:10.289
cool thing on our deck. We, we, we always debrief

00:50:10.289 --> 00:50:12.989
our day and we've been doing this for, I don't

00:50:12.989 --> 00:50:16.570
know, like I want to say close to 10 years and

00:50:16.570 --> 00:50:20.110
it's just become a regular part of, of our, of

00:50:20.110 --> 00:50:23.170
our existence together where we get together

00:50:23.170 --> 00:50:25.829
and, and we spend, you know, two hours, three

00:50:25.829 --> 00:50:27.389
hours, literally just talking, you know, we'll

00:50:27.389 --> 00:50:28.449
have a glass of wine or something like that.

00:50:28.469 --> 00:50:30.809
We'll just talk. And I love it so much. It's

00:50:30.809 --> 00:50:32.769
become such a, such a huge therapeutic tool for

00:50:32.769 --> 00:50:35.349
me. but but it's during these and i would just

00:50:35.349 --> 00:50:38.030
completely cry and she's a very stoic uh very

00:50:38.030 --> 00:50:42.650
stoic woman um and it was i think really difficult

00:50:42.650 --> 00:50:45.610
for her initially to see a husband who would

00:50:45.610 --> 00:50:48.789
only cry at like war movies um you know what

00:50:48.789 --> 00:50:52.210
i mean or about his daughter uh and and otherwise

00:50:52.210 --> 00:50:54.670
not really express any any emotion any meaningful

00:50:54.670 --> 00:50:56.230
way i think it was really difficult her in the

00:50:56.230 --> 00:50:58.550
onset to see all that and it's really difficult

00:50:58.550 --> 00:51:02.079
to do because it's super disruptive right like

00:51:02.079 --> 00:51:04.199
all i'm trying to do is just hey how's it going

00:51:04.199 --> 00:51:06.039
how you know talk about my day and talk about

00:51:06.039 --> 00:51:07.760
what you know what i've been thinking and feeling

00:51:07.760 --> 00:51:09.260
and all this kind of stuff and all of a sudden

00:51:09.260 --> 00:51:12.300
all this emotion comes and and and and so like

00:51:12.300 --> 00:51:14.340
you i'm you know i'm absolutely a cry baby for

00:51:14.340 --> 00:51:16.980
all the right reasons but it's been getting less

00:51:16.980 --> 00:51:19.139
and less and less like it's it's fewer and further

00:51:19.139 --> 00:51:22.219
between which is really really nice um but that's

00:51:22.219 --> 00:51:24.920
the that's that's what i've been finding is is

00:51:24.920 --> 00:51:30.099
the challenge is like um allowing And it's easier

00:51:30.099 --> 00:51:33.139
now, but allowing that emotion to move, right?

00:51:33.219 --> 00:51:35.639
Because my mom describes it, energy and motion.

00:51:35.800 --> 00:51:37.420
That's all it is. It's your body's got stored

00:51:37.420 --> 00:51:40.300
up energy and it needs to move it out. So allow

00:51:40.300 --> 00:51:43.159
it to move. And the more you do that, the more

00:51:43.159 --> 00:51:45.880
you feel your feelings fully as many times as

00:51:45.880 --> 00:51:51.659
you need to, the more you heal whatever it is

00:51:51.659 --> 00:51:55.360
that was the source of those, you know, that

00:51:55.360 --> 00:51:58.960
sadness, that sorrow, that... you know, anger

00:51:58.960 --> 00:52:01.719
that whatever it was, right. The more you allow

00:52:01.719 --> 00:52:04.340
yourself is again, my experience only, but, uh,

00:52:04.619 --> 00:52:07.420
to move that emotion, to move those feelings,

00:52:07.500 --> 00:52:10.860
that's where the healing truly is. And now it's

00:52:10.860 --> 00:52:13.639
just kind of irritating. It's like, uh, I'm like,

00:52:13.659 --> 00:52:15.679
I'm good. Like, I'm good. I'll talk about all

00:52:15.679 --> 00:52:17.739
this all day long. But every now and then, like

00:52:17.739 --> 00:52:19.099
earlier in the show, right. I'm talking about

00:52:19.099 --> 00:52:20.880
my dad and okay, great. Here it comes again.

00:52:20.980 --> 00:52:23.380
Right. Like, you know, because I do, I feel,

00:52:23.380 --> 00:52:26.500
I feel a sense of sorrow for my dad and for the

00:52:26.500 --> 00:52:28.760
life that he could have led, but didn't. And,

00:52:28.760 --> 00:52:30.719
and feeling that emotion, just kind of allowing

00:52:30.719 --> 00:52:33.440
it through and being okay with it. That's, that's

00:52:33.440 --> 00:52:36.070
where. I'm, I'm, that's where my work is right

00:52:36.070 --> 00:52:38.329
now. Like just being okay. Just, yeah, man, I'm

00:52:38.329 --> 00:52:39.510
just going to have a bit of a cry here. Give

00:52:39.510 --> 00:52:42.550
me a second and, and, and move on. So I'm glad

00:52:42.550 --> 00:52:44.409
to know that I'm not alone here. James is what

00:52:44.409 --> 00:52:47.349
I'm saying. Yeah, no, not at all. Not at all.

00:52:48.170 --> 00:52:50.369
Whatever you're the, you're the one supposed

00:52:50.369 --> 00:52:53.590
to be monologuing, not me. But no, I mean, I

00:52:53.590 --> 00:52:55.369
think this goes back to the whole empath thing.

00:52:55.409 --> 00:52:58.550
And again, this is one of the massive realizations

00:52:58.550 --> 00:53:02.619
I had a few years ago now. In my profession,

00:53:02.820 --> 00:53:05.619
arguably even more so in yours, in law enforcement,

00:53:05.780 --> 00:53:09.480
there's this facade, and I think it's the generation

00:53:09.480 --> 00:53:12.300
that we grew up in too. We grew up with the action

00:53:12.300 --> 00:53:15.059
heroes being the stone -faced bodybuilders, the

00:53:15.059 --> 00:53:19.480
Stallones, the Rambos, the Robocops. But if you

00:53:19.480 --> 00:53:22.500
actually listen and look at who raises their

00:53:22.500 --> 00:53:24.659
hand, especially in the first responder profession,

00:53:25.079 --> 00:53:27.460
these people are doing it because of kindness

00:53:27.460 --> 00:53:30.139
and compassion. You know, we have the yin and

00:53:30.139 --> 00:53:32.760
the yang. It's not just the white circle, this

00:53:32.760 --> 00:53:35.340
kind of, you know, just go punch everyone in

00:53:35.340 --> 00:53:37.639
the face. There's a kindness and compassion and

00:53:37.639 --> 00:53:39.780
empathy that sends you into service in the first

00:53:39.780 --> 00:53:41.739
place. And then you get in there and you get

00:53:41.739 --> 00:53:44.400
beat down by all the things, you know, and you

00:53:44.400 --> 00:53:46.320
sleep deprived and, you know, organizational

00:53:46.320 --> 00:53:48.099
betrayal and all these other things that really

00:53:48.099 --> 00:53:51.139
compound. And then there's that, you know, compassion

00:53:51.139 --> 00:53:54.019
fatigue. There's that loss of that kindness,

00:53:54.039 --> 00:53:57.420
compassion and empathy, which is bad. for the

00:53:57.420 --> 00:53:59.420
public if that happens to them but it's also

00:53:59.420 --> 00:54:02.400
bad with us so for example you cut a family of

00:54:02.400 --> 00:54:04.539
you know out of a minivan that was killed by

00:54:04.539 --> 00:54:06.320
a drunk driver who's now sitting on the curb

00:54:06.320 --> 00:54:09.179
feeling sorry for themselves yeah in that moment

00:54:09.179 --> 00:54:11.300
you've got to be stone faced and you've got to

00:54:11.300 --> 00:54:13.480
get the job done and get those poor you know

00:54:13.480 --> 00:54:17.199
deceased people out of their their vehicle but

00:54:17.199 --> 00:54:19.340
then when once you go home you've got to allow

00:54:19.340 --> 00:54:22.079
yourself to feel because a normal human being

00:54:22.730 --> 00:54:25.630
would cry after that. They would be affected

00:54:25.630 --> 00:54:28.250
after seeing such a tragic end to these people.

00:54:28.550 --> 00:54:30.809
So I think it goes back to that. You know, if

00:54:30.809 --> 00:54:33.349
you look at us as infants, if we're hungry, if

00:54:33.349 --> 00:54:35.769
we've got our nappy is dirty, whatever the thing

00:54:35.769 --> 00:54:40.829
is, we cry. You know, it's, you know, stimulus

00:54:40.829 --> 00:54:44.110
and effect. It's no different when you're an

00:54:44.110 --> 00:54:45.989
adult, when there's something sad, when things

00:54:45.989 --> 00:54:48.789
are built up, crying is the most, you know, innate

00:54:48.789 --> 00:54:51.369
way of letting some of that out. So I think that

00:54:51.369 --> 00:54:54.090
allowing yourself to feel when you're in uniform

00:54:54.090 --> 00:54:56.590
after the job is done, you've been in that, you

00:54:56.590 --> 00:54:59.530
know, work state. If we just bottle it up and

00:54:59.530 --> 00:55:01.570
shove it down, eventually, you know, that pressure

00:55:01.570 --> 00:55:04.849
cooker is going to explode. I was having this

00:55:04.849 --> 00:55:07.170
very conversation with with a friend of mine,

00:55:07.190 --> 00:55:10.519
Chris Latrell. He's a former. police officer

00:55:10.519 --> 00:55:14.519
in the state of Washington, Kennewick and, and

00:55:14.519 --> 00:55:17.519
a former air force veteran as well. And we were

00:55:17.519 --> 00:55:25.159
talking about sort of the line between stoicism

00:55:25.159 --> 00:55:28.760
and the importance of, of feeling those feelings.

00:55:28.920 --> 00:55:30.840
Right. And he's like, well, where's that line

00:55:30.840 --> 00:55:35.679
drawn? And, and I, for me, I sort of, I said

00:55:35.679 --> 00:55:40.460
like in the imminency of the circumstance, You

00:55:40.460 --> 00:55:43.059
have to respond. That's why you're a first responder,

00:55:43.199 --> 00:55:45.400
not a reactor, right? You have training, you

00:55:45.400 --> 00:55:48.219
have skills and abilities that allow you to respond

00:55:48.219 --> 00:55:51.440
to this circumstance appropriately. But once

00:55:51.440 --> 00:55:56.199
the imminency of that or the severity of that

00:55:56.199 --> 00:55:58.980
circumstance has subsided, right? It's safe again,

00:55:59.119 --> 00:56:02.780
right? The fire's out. The intersection's cleared.

00:56:03.820 --> 00:56:11.130
The suspect is in custody. the bad guys have

00:56:11.130 --> 00:56:15.690
stopped shooting right um whatever that circumstance

00:56:15.690 --> 00:56:18.530
is okay fine that you need you need to be stoic

00:56:18.530 --> 00:56:20.750
and you need to be able to respond right you

00:56:20.750 --> 00:56:23.750
just need to you get the job done but once that's

00:56:23.750 --> 00:56:27.409
done there needs to be absolutely needs to be

00:56:27.409 --> 00:56:30.409
space afterwards to do exactly what you're describing

00:56:30.409 --> 00:56:36.429
and that's feel all of the natural normal healthy

00:56:36.429 --> 00:56:40.380
emotions that arise as a result of being in a

00:56:40.380 --> 00:56:43.320
really shitty circumstance. And let's be real,

00:56:43.420 --> 00:56:45.800
even if you're fighting with some idiot over,

00:56:46.019 --> 00:56:47.800
uh, sorry, I don't mean to use judgmental language

00:56:47.800 --> 00:56:51.219
like that. Um, even if you're fighting with someone,

00:56:51.400 --> 00:56:55.380
uh, over a relatively minor offense and it takes

00:56:55.380 --> 00:56:56.599
a little bit of, you know, they're resisting,

00:56:56.760 --> 00:56:58.219
it takes a little bit of time to, to get them

00:56:58.219 --> 00:57:00.420
into, into restraints and, and into the back

00:57:00.420 --> 00:57:04.079
of the car. Um, you know, you, as a, as a law

00:57:04.079 --> 00:57:05.340
enforcement professional, you, you look at that

00:57:05.340 --> 00:57:07.519
and go, ah. part of the course, not a big deal,

00:57:07.619 --> 00:57:10.300
but it is a big deal. That's not normal human

00:57:10.300 --> 00:57:13.000
behavior. That is not a normal day for anybody.

00:57:13.860 --> 00:57:16.639
And, and Steve, Steve, Steve talks about this.

00:57:16.639 --> 00:57:21.719
Farina talks about this kind of the piecing the

00:57:21.719 --> 00:57:23.960
pie of society, right? And so, so collectively

00:57:23.960 --> 00:57:27.440
over, over years of evolution, humans have decided

00:57:27.440 --> 00:57:30.119
that, okay, a certain part of the societal pie,

00:57:30.300 --> 00:57:32.260
we need you to go over here and do these things

00:57:32.260 --> 00:57:33.619
so that we don't have to, because they're really

00:57:33.619 --> 00:57:37.380
awful. Right. And there's there's a there's an

00:57:37.380 --> 00:57:40.119
obligation to the people that go into that piece

00:57:40.119 --> 00:57:42.099
of the pie and do all those awful things. There's

00:57:42.099 --> 00:57:44.159
an obligation to make sure that they feel as

00:57:44.159 --> 00:57:48.340
safe as possible every single day. And that that

00:57:48.340 --> 00:57:50.119
goes beyond just like giving you the necessary

00:57:50.119 --> 00:57:52.159
training and tools and equipment for your job.

00:57:52.199 --> 00:57:54.719
It's it's it's this kind of thing. Right. Making

00:57:54.719 --> 00:57:57.340
sure that you have the space after the call and

00:57:57.340 --> 00:58:01.920
the threat has subsided to feel your normal human

00:58:01.920 --> 00:58:05.329
emotions. about that circumstance and be totally

00:58:05.329 --> 00:58:09.190
cool with it and we're not there yet no well

00:58:09.190 --> 00:58:11.409
especially if you look at the american fire service

00:58:11.409 --> 00:58:15.610
we work them so much more than everyone else

00:58:15.610 --> 00:58:17.510
so you take that piece of the pie and you say

00:58:17.510 --> 00:58:19.210
hey we're going to ask you to do extraordinary

00:58:19.210 --> 00:58:22.480
things even though you're ordinary people here

00:58:22.480 --> 00:58:23.699
then we're like and then we're going to give

00:58:23.699 --> 00:58:25.840
you the worst working environment you can possibly

00:58:25.840 --> 00:58:28.300
have to double down on the fact that you're probably

00:58:28.300 --> 00:58:31.039
going to die way before you should you know so

00:58:31.039 --> 00:58:33.460
this is such a hard pushback and i'm actually

00:58:33.460 --> 00:58:36.619
lecturing the end of this week in in florida

00:58:36.619 --> 00:58:40.119
to our state union about this very thing because

00:58:40.119 --> 00:58:42.340
there's we're finally starting to get it in florida

00:58:42.340 --> 00:58:44.480
and we're seeing departments changing because

00:58:44.480 --> 00:58:46.260
we've got a recruitment crisis because you know

00:58:46.260 --> 00:58:47.980
what's happening here is young people are going

00:58:47.980 --> 00:58:50.500
well look You clearly are not taking care of

00:58:50.500 --> 00:58:53.320
your firefighters or cops or, you know, paramedics.

00:58:53.960 --> 00:58:56.019
We're not going to join your profession because

00:58:56.019 --> 00:58:58.360
we value our physical health, our mental health,

00:58:58.380 --> 00:59:00.980
our relationships, our time at home. And so,

00:59:00.980 --> 00:59:04.000
you know, figure it out or you're not going to

00:59:04.000 --> 00:59:06.599
have any of us. So, you know, now it's nice because

00:59:06.599 --> 00:59:08.039
they're being forced to do that. And I think

00:59:08.039 --> 00:59:12.559
this conversation now is really starting to become

00:59:12.559 --> 00:59:15.079
more present within departments. It's like, yes.

00:59:15.530 --> 00:59:18.170
this as i said that that white circle now you

00:59:18.170 --> 00:59:20.429
go to the transition when people leave our profession

00:59:20.429 --> 00:59:23.570
and you have this massive identity crisis because

00:59:23.570 --> 00:59:25.969
i've been this you know faux stoic because i

00:59:25.969 --> 00:59:28.050
mean surreal stoicism is understanding this stuff

00:59:28.050 --> 00:59:30.989
the faux stoicism is the stallone schwarzenegger

00:59:30.989 --> 00:59:33.889
i'm just a cop you know and then you leave and

00:59:33.889 --> 00:59:35.869
like well no one gives a shit anymore you don't

00:59:35.869 --> 00:59:38.349
have the uniform your id doesn't work you know

00:59:38.349 --> 00:59:40.570
the people that you thought loved you a lot of

00:59:40.570 --> 00:59:41.949
them have already forgotten about you i hate

00:59:41.949 --> 00:59:44.449
to tell you and that's a massive identity crisis

00:59:44.449 --> 00:59:47.780
so Having this conversation that we are human

00:59:47.780 --> 00:59:51.400
beings in a uniform rather than firefighters,

00:59:51.500 --> 00:59:53.960
cops, or whatever the label that we're given,

00:59:54.099 --> 00:59:57.219
I think really then allows you to feel the things

00:59:57.219 --> 00:59:59.059
that you need to feel. You go through a divorce,

00:59:59.199 --> 01:00:00.940
you're going to have a reaction. Your favorite

01:00:00.940 --> 01:00:03.119
dog dies, you're going to have a reaction. You

01:00:03.119 --> 01:00:05.480
cut a minivan full of children out of a van,

01:00:05.619 --> 01:00:10.260
you are supposed to have a reaction. I had a

01:00:10.260 --> 01:00:13.119
pretty interesting experience just over a year

01:00:13.119 --> 01:00:16.820
ago now. I was in London on a plane just getting

01:00:16.820 --> 01:00:18.679
ready to take off from Heathrow. The doors are

01:00:18.679 --> 01:00:21.579
closed and they haven't taxied off yet. And the

01:00:21.579 --> 01:00:24.480
last passenger face plants in the aisle ended

01:00:24.480 --> 01:00:28.059
up working a code on the plane. And it was one

01:00:28.059 --> 01:00:30.099
of those ones, I say this a few times on here,

01:00:30.199 --> 01:00:32.280
you know, you see his news stories. Oh, there

01:00:32.280 --> 01:00:34.860
was a, you know, 30 cardiologists on their way

01:00:34.860 --> 01:00:37.079
back from a conference. No, there was no one

01:00:37.079 --> 01:00:38.860
on this plane that had an emergency background

01:00:38.860 --> 01:00:41.460
except myself. And there was some other bystanders

01:00:41.460 --> 01:00:43.420
that had done CPR and the cabin crew had been

01:00:43.420 --> 01:00:46.280
taught, you know, the basic stuff. So don't get

01:00:46.280 --> 01:00:47.820
me wrong. It wasn't single handed. There was

01:00:47.820 --> 01:00:51.900
some amazing, good Samaritans, but I was the

01:00:51.900 --> 01:00:53.659
one running the code. I was the only one that

01:00:53.659 --> 01:00:56.679
really had this level of experience. And so we

01:00:56.679 --> 01:00:59.199
worked them. Then the London fire brigade came

01:00:59.199 --> 01:01:02.860
on for, again, very minimal EMS training. And

01:01:02.860 --> 01:01:04.920
then ultimately London ambulance came on and

01:01:04.920 --> 01:01:07.880
then I finally handed them off, washed my hands

01:01:07.880 --> 01:01:12.059
and went and sat down. And I felt a totally different

01:01:12.059 --> 01:01:14.039
experience than I used to when I was on my crew,

01:01:14.119 --> 01:01:17.699
because now I'm a civilian. And I went and washed

01:01:17.699 --> 01:01:19.420
the blood off my hands and sat back down on my

01:01:19.420 --> 01:01:22.239
seat. And then I was like, kind of knocked me

01:01:22.239 --> 01:01:23.639
sideways for a bit. And I'm like, what is going

01:01:23.639 --> 01:01:26.360
on? And I was like, well. oh shit this is what

01:01:26.360 --> 01:01:29.739
you're supposed to feel when someone dies right

01:01:29.739 --> 01:01:31.599
in front of you and you fight to save their life

01:01:31.599 --> 01:01:34.119
and they still die anyway you know so it was

01:01:34.119 --> 01:01:36.179
really interesting because we get in that groove

01:01:36.179 --> 01:01:39.139
whether it's law enforcement or fire or ems where

01:01:39.139 --> 01:01:42.480
you're just doing your job and then you get you

01:01:42.480 --> 01:01:45.179
have this exposure like this is how one code

01:01:45.179 --> 01:01:47.519
is supposed to feel there's times where we had

01:01:47.519 --> 01:01:51.000
numerous codes in one shift you know so so yeah

01:01:51.000 --> 01:01:54.050
so just again bit of a monologue but yeah understanding

01:01:54.050 --> 01:01:56.909
that every single time as you said whether it's

01:01:56.909 --> 01:01:58.969
a massive tragedy or just simply going hands

01:01:58.969 --> 01:02:02.210
-on with someone that has that's supposed to

01:02:02.210 --> 01:02:04.050
have an effect and if you don't process that

01:02:04.050 --> 01:02:06.210
effect it builds and builds and builds and builds

01:02:06.210 --> 01:02:08.230
and then the next thing you turn around and wonder

01:02:08.230 --> 01:02:11.570
why you're struggling yeah yeah totally right

01:02:11.570 --> 01:02:18.369
totally right i um i i've i've had my i've had

01:02:18.369 --> 01:02:22.139
my own you know like cpr dead guy experiences.

01:02:25.920 --> 01:02:29.019
That's one of those things that I had to unpack

01:02:29.019 --> 01:02:32.860
as well, because at the time, you're just doing

01:02:32.860 --> 01:02:37.239
what it is you're required to do, you're trained

01:02:37.239 --> 01:02:43.159
to do, and then that's it. This was at a time

01:02:43.159 --> 01:02:48.000
in our evolution where these things weren't really

01:02:48.000 --> 01:02:51.760
talked about at all. And so you just carry on.

01:02:51.880 --> 01:02:55.739
And it's, you know, the reality is you've watched

01:02:55.739 --> 01:03:01.659
someone expire. And that's not a normal day for

01:03:01.659 --> 01:03:03.800
anybody. I don't care what uniform you're wearing

01:03:03.800 --> 01:03:07.559
or not, or, you know, what you're doing in that

01:03:07.559 --> 01:03:10.760
day or not. That's not a normal experience. And

01:03:10.760 --> 01:03:14.980
it's okay to feel whatever the feelings are that

01:03:14.980 --> 01:03:18.579
arise. And that's the key, right? If we can do

01:03:18.579 --> 01:03:20.420
that, if we can feel comfortable, particularly

01:03:20.420 --> 01:03:23.840
as men, if we can feel comfortable enough whenever

01:03:23.840 --> 01:03:26.699
those feelings arise just to express them, if

01:03:26.699 --> 01:03:31.579
we can have that behavior modeled for us consistently

01:03:31.579 --> 01:03:36.539
enough by other men and have it supported by

01:03:36.539 --> 01:03:39.719
women as well, because I think that's another

01:03:39.719 --> 01:03:47.659
part of this discussion is, you know, the male

01:03:47.659 --> 01:03:52.699
relationship with the female and, you know, wanting,

01:03:52.780 --> 01:03:56.420
having a need to feel supported, you know, at

01:03:56.420 --> 01:03:58.179
the end of the day, we all want our moms, right.

01:03:59.780 --> 01:04:02.280
And, and, and like, you know, most daughters

01:04:02.280 --> 01:04:04.599
want, you know, the, the support of their dad.

01:04:05.940 --> 01:04:08.219
It's, it, it really boils down to that. And,

01:04:08.219 --> 01:04:10.760
and so the more we can do that collectively and

01:04:10.760 --> 01:04:12.559
the more consistently we can do that, I think.

01:04:13.719 --> 01:04:16.500
the faster we're going to evolve into a species

01:04:16.500 --> 01:04:21.820
that truly is heart -led over mind -led. And

01:04:21.820 --> 01:04:26.400
that, I fundamentally believe, is the next natural

01:04:26.400 --> 01:04:30.440
evolution for the human being in general, is

01:04:30.440 --> 01:04:35.639
to go from all of our top brain -thinking ways

01:04:35.639 --> 01:04:39.760
of behaving into a more heart -centered way of

01:04:39.760 --> 01:04:43.539
existing. And this is, I think you and I and

01:04:43.539 --> 01:04:48.239
other members of our generation are kind of,

01:04:48.239 --> 01:04:53.079
we're alive at a really cool point in terms of

01:04:53.079 --> 01:04:58.039
humanity's evolution. We're kind of the baton

01:04:58.039 --> 01:05:02.800
holders, right? Transitioning from the generations

01:05:02.800 --> 01:05:05.940
of our parents, so the baby boomers and the great

01:05:05.940 --> 01:05:08.920
generation before them to... you know, the millennials

01:05:08.920 --> 01:05:12.260
and the, the gen alphas and whatever it is that's

01:05:12.260 --> 01:05:14.380
coming next. And I can't keep track of all the

01:05:14.380 --> 01:05:17.000
alphabets out there, but I, you know, I think,

01:05:17.000 --> 01:05:24.840
I think Gen X is, is in a really amazing position

01:05:24.840 --> 01:05:29.500
to, to break cycles. Like we talked about right

01:05:29.500 --> 01:05:31.719
at the beginning to break cycles, generational

01:05:31.719 --> 01:05:37.380
cycles. And in so doing And hand that baton off

01:05:37.380 --> 01:05:40.940
to the next generation to really expedite that

01:05:40.940 --> 01:05:45.300
evolution from mind to a heart -led species.

01:05:45.579 --> 01:05:49.380
And I think that's also why we're seeing, you

01:05:49.380 --> 01:05:54.179
know, really bizarre geopolitical times, right?

01:05:54.320 --> 01:05:57.510
We've, you know, we've got... world leaders uh

01:05:57.510 --> 01:05:59.909
i don't i'm not trying to get political here

01:05:59.909 --> 01:06:02.769
at all by the way um but but you know let's be

01:06:02.769 --> 01:06:06.449
real we're we're in a very strange time um as

01:06:06.449 --> 01:06:09.429
far as the world and and how it's ordered and

01:06:09.429 --> 01:06:12.469
the way nations interact and and collaborate

01:06:12.469 --> 01:06:16.010
with one another and and i think um i think it's

01:06:16.010 --> 01:06:18.730
all part of it's all part of a grand a grand

01:06:18.730 --> 01:06:24.070
evolutionary plan and design um and and it's

01:06:24.070 --> 01:06:26.309
a cool you know it's weird and strange and and

01:06:26.309 --> 01:06:28.550
and depending on your perspective fearful as

01:06:28.550 --> 01:06:31.369
it as it may feel at times it's a really cool

01:06:31.369 --> 01:06:34.670
time to be alive man i've said this recently

01:06:34.670 --> 01:06:37.969
when we talk about evolution a lot of times we'll

01:06:37.969 --> 01:06:40.829
look at technology innovation so you know the

01:06:40.829 --> 01:06:44.550
industrial revolution the computers ai but i

01:06:44.550 --> 01:06:46.809
disagree completely i think the evolution of

01:06:46.809 --> 01:06:49.190
mankind has been kindness compassion and empathy

01:06:49.679 --> 01:06:52.659
Because if you look at a lot of more basal species,

01:06:52.940 --> 01:06:55.340
it's there. But I think it's been amplified.

01:06:55.340 --> 01:06:57.320
And going back to our grandparents' generation,

01:06:57.739 --> 01:07:00.199
a lot of those men and women from around the

01:07:00.199 --> 01:07:04.059
world got on planes and ships to go protect a

01:07:04.059 --> 01:07:05.920
group of people in Europe that were being oppressed.

01:07:06.539 --> 01:07:10.039
And that is the biggest message. But then what

01:07:10.039 --> 01:07:12.840
happened since, and I've said this, one of the

01:07:12.840 --> 01:07:15.630
most... mind -blowing things is how you can go

01:07:15.630 --> 01:07:18.570
from world war ii where people of all colors

01:07:18.570 --> 01:07:22.230
and creeds fought but side by side to the 1950s

01:07:22.230 --> 01:07:24.010
in america for example where they're hanging

01:07:24.010 --> 01:07:25.690
black people from trees and women are supposed

01:07:25.690 --> 01:07:28.170
to be in the kitchen and so i think that where

01:07:28.170 --> 01:07:31.889
our generation really has a you know a really

01:07:31.889 --> 01:07:34.650
exciting ability is to sift through the bullshit

01:07:34.650 --> 01:07:41.710
and stop the orange narcissists and the demented

01:07:41.710 --> 01:07:44.650
tyrants forcing vaccines on everyone and everything

01:07:44.650 --> 01:07:46.250
that we've seen in this country, because I've

01:07:46.250 --> 01:07:49.469
said, like, I'm not left or right. I'm just fully

01:07:49.469 --> 01:07:52.010
aware that the way that we air quotes, choose

01:07:52.010 --> 01:07:55.230
leaders is completely broken because no one,

01:07:55.250 --> 01:07:57.849
America hasn't had anyone to be excited about

01:07:57.849 --> 01:08:00.789
in the last two, as long as I've lived in this

01:08:00.789 --> 01:08:03.409
country, you know, which is 22 plus years. So,

01:08:03.409 --> 01:08:06.809
you know, if we just. keep turning our heads

01:08:06.809 --> 01:08:09.889
away from the things that are wrong. Gaza is

01:08:09.889 --> 01:08:12.550
another perfect example. Is it a one -sided conversation?

01:08:13.050 --> 01:08:15.869
No. But has the other side gone way too far?

01:08:16.050 --> 01:08:19.510
Yes. Super easy to say, but yet people are terrified

01:08:19.510 --> 01:08:23.489
to say it. So I think that standing up just like

01:08:23.489 --> 01:08:25.270
our grandparents did, and I did a video a while

01:08:25.270 --> 01:08:27.090
ago. Imagine if you were World War II generation

01:08:27.090 --> 01:08:30.890
and you had sacrificed your life, been away from

01:08:30.890 --> 01:08:32.590
your families for a year, watched your friends

01:08:32.590 --> 01:08:37.779
die side by side. And then you saw our generation

01:08:37.779 --> 01:08:40.260
allowing the same exact thing to happen in the

01:08:40.260 --> 01:08:43.020
Middle East. What would they think? They would

01:08:43.020 --> 01:08:45.760
be disgusted, absolutely disgusted, because this

01:08:45.760 --> 01:08:48.520
movement is supposed to be towards community,

01:08:48.800 --> 01:08:52.300
towards, you know. stopping the bullies from

01:08:52.300 --> 01:08:54.420
rising and standing up for the people who are

01:08:54.420 --> 01:08:56.619
oppressed, regardless of their background situation,

01:08:57.060 --> 01:09:00.180
you know, wherever they sit on this planet. So

01:09:00.180 --> 01:09:03.100
I agree 100%. I think it's our generation that

01:09:03.100 --> 01:09:07.720
really has to stand up and continue fighting

01:09:07.720 --> 01:09:11.060
for what's right and really kind of laying that

01:09:11.060 --> 01:09:13.739
foundation of community, pulling people back

01:09:13.739 --> 01:09:16.510
together again. Because it's not... a political

01:09:16.510 --> 01:09:19.430
statement to point out that the the last two

01:09:19.430 --> 01:09:22.090
administrations that we've had in america have

01:09:22.090 --> 01:09:24.550
deliberately divided the nation and set us against

01:09:24.550 --> 01:09:27.829
each other that's not a leader that's a tyrant

01:09:27.829 --> 01:09:31.779
you know so i think for us You know, advocating

01:09:31.779 --> 01:09:34.859
for a better environment for young men and young

01:09:34.859 --> 01:09:38.239
women to talk about how they feel, a better environment

01:09:38.239 --> 01:09:40.760
for people in uniform to be able to do the courageous

01:09:40.760 --> 01:09:42.659
things that they do, but also have the support

01:09:42.659 --> 01:09:45.260
so they can process that and be at home with

01:09:45.260 --> 01:09:48.319
their family as much as possible. That is absolutely

01:09:48.319 --> 01:09:51.359
our generation's responsibility. And the people

01:09:51.359 --> 01:09:54.680
of our generation are out there propagating this

01:09:54.680 --> 01:09:59.840
division and lies. are an absolute disgrace to

01:09:59.840 --> 01:10:03.039
Generation X because we should be learning from.

01:10:03.100 --> 01:10:05.399
We were the grandchildren of these incredible

01:10:05.399 --> 01:10:09.680
warriors of the 1940s that did stand up and fight

01:10:09.680 --> 01:10:12.159
for people and wanting to make the world better.

01:10:12.359 --> 01:10:16.000
And now I feel like some of those... Those people

01:10:16.000 --> 01:10:18.279
of our generation have completely abused that

01:10:18.279 --> 01:10:20.819
and are actually doing the very tyrannical thing

01:10:20.819 --> 01:10:23.020
that caused the Second World War in the first

01:10:23.020 --> 01:10:26.140
place. So I don't think it's a political conversation

01:10:26.140 --> 01:10:28.619
at all. It's about kindness and compassion. And

01:10:28.619 --> 01:10:30.539
even if you want to lean into the holy books,

01:10:30.739 --> 01:10:34.640
what would Jesus do? What would Buddha do? Choose

01:10:34.640 --> 01:10:38.439
your prophet. What would they actually do if

01:10:38.439 --> 01:10:40.420
they were here now? They would want the community

01:10:40.420 --> 01:10:42.239
to be pulled together. Kindness, compassion,

01:10:42.600 --> 01:10:46.699
empathy, healing. I couldn't agree more. The

01:10:46.699 --> 01:10:50.159
pendulum swung so far the other way in some areas

01:10:50.159 --> 01:10:53.680
where it got ridiculous. But, you know, our generation

01:10:53.680 --> 01:10:55.920
should be the one that stands up and say, hey,

01:10:55.960 --> 01:10:58.199
you know, we're going to be the true north. We've

01:10:58.199 --> 01:11:00.520
seen the tyranny from our grandparents generation

01:11:00.520 --> 01:11:03.960
and we see the potential tyranny of what's happening

01:11:03.960 --> 01:11:07.140
now. These are the leaders that we should have,

01:11:07.279 --> 01:11:09.020
whether it's the country, whether it's a fire

01:11:09.020 --> 01:11:11.140
department or a police department or border control.

01:11:12.220 --> 01:11:15.420
And this is who we shouldn't have. But it takes

01:11:15.420 --> 01:11:17.640
a courageous voice. And sadly, it's very easy

01:11:17.640 --> 01:11:19.399
just to stick your head back in the sand and

01:11:19.399 --> 01:11:25.619
do nothing. First of all, I just want to express

01:11:25.619 --> 01:11:27.720
my gratitude to you for using a very Canadian

01:11:27.720 --> 01:11:34.449
term, True North. I appreciate that. You know,

01:11:34.529 --> 01:11:39.250
so Canada hasn't had a much better run as far

01:11:39.250 --> 01:11:44.109
as our leaders go. And again, I'm not interested

01:11:44.109 --> 01:11:49.069
in having any political debate about anything,

01:11:49.189 --> 01:11:59.689
but I will say the more our society, the more

01:11:59.689 --> 01:12:05.029
humanity continues to evolve, From mind into

01:12:05.029 --> 01:12:07.550
heart, you're talking about kindness and compassion

01:12:07.550 --> 01:12:12.729
as a foundation for our way of being. The better

01:12:12.729 --> 01:12:20.750
able we're going to be to recognize when someone

01:12:20.750 --> 01:12:25.250
puts themselves out for elected office or a leadership

01:12:25.250 --> 01:12:28.609
position of some kind, the better able we're

01:12:28.609 --> 01:12:31.909
going to be to recognize who is and who is not.

01:12:32.779 --> 01:12:36.880
truly authentic. Because I think authenticity

01:12:36.880 --> 01:12:43.539
is the foundation for the next great leap for

01:12:43.539 --> 01:12:47.140
mankind, living truly authentically. Because

01:12:47.140 --> 01:12:48.960
we're all completely unique from one another,

01:12:49.060 --> 01:12:51.409
right? We're all the same. We're all human beings.

01:12:51.529 --> 01:12:54.010
The same blood runs through our bodies. The same

01:12:54.010 --> 01:12:56.569
bones make up our skeletal structure. The same

01:12:56.569 --> 01:12:59.930
nervous systems guide and govern our attitudes

01:12:59.930 --> 01:13:03.069
and behaviors to things. We're all the same,

01:13:03.229 --> 01:13:06.510
but we're all completely individual and unique

01:13:06.510 --> 01:13:12.229
expressions of humanity. And the world needs

01:13:12.229 --> 01:13:16.810
more of that uniqueness, being comfortable being

01:13:16.810 --> 01:13:21.600
unique, than it needs A bunch of us coalescing

01:13:21.600 --> 01:13:24.199
around some sort of identity we think is right.

01:13:25.060 --> 01:13:27.340
Does that make sense? Am I making sense when

01:13:27.340 --> 01:13:32.340
I say that? So I think the more we evolve and

01:13:32.340 --> 01:13:38.260
grow towards that kindness, compassion, heart

01:13:38.260 --> 01:13:41.500
-led way of existence, the easier it's going

01:13:41.500 --> 01:13:43.500
to be for us to read the room. The easier it's

01:13:43.500 --> 01:13:48.920
going to be for us to watch any political aspirant.

01:13:49.199 --> 01:13:52.720
on any stage when they're speaking and recognize

01:13:52.720 --> 01:13:58.220
authenticity when we see it. And the more we

01:13:58.220 --> 01:14:00.340
can do that, the more we're going to get genuinely

01:14:00.340 --> 01:14:04.140
authentic people leading from that place of kindness

01:14:04.140 --> 01:14:07.210
and compassion. I mean, you also need smart people.

01:14:07.289 --> 01:14:10.050
You need people who understand our systems, our

01:14:10.050 --> 01:14:12.090
business systems, our financial systems, our

01:14:12.090 --> 01:14:14.689
economic systems, our trade systems, our military

01:14:14.689 --> 01:14:16.789
and security systems, all of those things. You

01:14:16.789 --> 01:14:19.689
need smart people, but you need smart people

01:14:19.689 --> 01:14:22.130
that are very comfortable just being who they

01:14:22.130 --> 01:14:24.890
are and expressing themselves that way. And whether

01:14:24.890 --> 01:14:27.649
or not that message resonates with enough people

01:14:27.649 --> 01:14:31.670
to get them into office is decided at the ballot.

01:14:34.140 --> 01:14:37.659
You talk about pendulums swinging, and I feel

01:14:37.659 --> 01:14:42.000
as though globally, the pendulum has swung so

01:14:42.000 --> 01:14:46.539
far one way that we're seeing the exploitation

01:14:46.539 --> 01:14:52.699
of election systems. I'm not saying it was a

01:14:52.699 --> 01:14:55.760
rigged election anywhere. I'm just saying we're

01:14:55.760 --> 01:15:00.119
seeing people ascend to positions of authority.

01:15:01.069 --> 01:15:04.729
Because they understand how to leverage the system

01:15:04.729 --> 01:15:07.810
for their own personal gain. Not the greater

01:15:07.810 --> 01:15:11.430
gain of the collective will of the people or

01:15:11.430 --> 01:15:13.050
anything like that, but for their own personal

01:15:13.050 --> 01:15:16.170
gain. And I think we're being shown that for

01:15:16.170 --> 01:15:20.350
very, very obvious reasons. And I think we're

01:15:20.350 --> 01:15:23.630
being shown that because we're being given an

01:15:23.630 --> 01:15:28.069
opportunity to either say, I'm not okay with

01:15:28.069 --> 01:15:30.800
these systems. anymore as they currently work

01:15:30.800 --> 01:15:33.380
i'm not okay with them being exploited i'm okay

01:15:33.380 --> 01:15:37.100
with them being leveraged um for for personal

01:15:37.100 --> 01:15:43.020
gain and greed or i am okay with it uh and if

01:15:43.020 --> 01:15:46.600
you know to your point earlier if you're on the

01:15:46.600 --> 01:15:48.600
ladder or if you're in the latter part of that

01:15:48.600 --> 01:15:51.220
group i think you're that group will find themselves

01:15:51.220 --> 01:15:53.920
uh you know quote on the wrong side of history

01:15:53.920 --> 01:15:56.939
end quote yeah Well, it's funny because I'd never

01:15:56.939 --> 01:15:58.439
thought about this before, but you hear this

01:15:58.439 --> 01:16:01.439
conversation of rigged elections, but just take

01:16:01.439 --> 01:16:05.319
a step back. In the States, we have a system

01:16:05.319 --> 01:16:07.960
that is completely acknowledged that the only

01:16:07.960 --> 01:16:12.760
way you can partake in the ladder towards becoming

01:16:12.760 --> 01:16:14.680
the president of the United States is you have

01:16:14.680 --> 01:16:17.000
to take money from companies, drug companies,

01:16:17.260 --> 01:16:19.680
fast food companies, weapons making companies.

01:16:20.000 --> 01:16:22.760
So that is a rigged election because anyone with

01:16:22.760 --> 01:16:25.520
ethics. isn't going to partake in that. So this

01:16:25.520 --> 01:16:27.819
is the point, is it's not about left or right.

01:16:27.920 --> 01:16:30.760
It's about the entire system has become so corrupt

01:16:30.760 --> 01:16:34.659
that if you really want to go back to finding

01:16:34.659 --> 01:16:37.819
selfless servant leaders who, like you said,

01:16:37.939 --> 01:16:39.800
are astute or have a team of people that are

01:16:39.800 --> 01:16:41.659
astute in all these areas that we need to make

01:16:41.659 --> 01:16:46.000
sure that we're able to be on top of, you have

01:16:46.000 --> 01:16:48.960
to have a system that allows the right kind of

01:16:48.960 --> 01:16:51.260
person to rise. And we just haven't. So you get

01:16:51.260 --> 01:16:54.100
the nation divided. arguing over someone that

01:16:54.100 --> 01:16:55.899
if you gave them a thousand different potential

01:16:55.899 --> 01:16:58.739
candidates from the country of the best leaders

01:16:58.739 --> 01:17:00.819
the two that they're fighting over wouldn't be

01:17:00.819 --> 01:17:03.800
on that list no matter be worth separating your

01:17:03.800 --> 01:17:07.000
fucking family for so you know this is it if

01:17:07.000 --> 01:17:10.300
you take a step back and go what are my values

01:17:10.300 --> 01:17:13.380
what is most important to me the health of my

01:17:13.380 --> 01:17:15.439
nation the safety of my nation the education

01:17:15.439 --> 01:17:19.910
of our youth etc etc you know remove eliminating

01:17:19.910 --> 01:17:22.010
homelessness, especially our veterans, all the

01:17:22.010 --> 01:17:24.369
things that are really important. What is being

01:17:24.369 --> 01:17:26.949
done? Has this even been mentioned in any of

01:17:26.949 --> 01:17:28.770
these ones that we've had? No. Okay, well, then

01:17:28.770 --> 01:17:31.010
we need to change the way that we do it. So to

01:17:31.010 --> 01:17:34.050
me, it's not politics. It's just that, you know,

01:17:34.050 --> 01:17:36.609
divide and conquer. I had a guest made a really

01:17:36.609 --> 01:17:39.470
astute observation a while ago. He said, imagine

01:17:39.470 --> 01:17:42.569
you're in medieval England, and you've got the

01:17:42.569 --> 01:17:45.210
peasants in the village arguing with each other.

01:17:45.569 --> 01:17:47.409
He said, if they're arguing with each other,

01:17:47.470 --> 01:17:51.069
where are they not looking? the castle this is

01:17:51.069 --> 01:17:54.289
exactly it you know if you are if you're a whole

01:17:54.289 --> 01:17:56.649
you're just consumed by your one party and hating

01:17:56.649 --> 01:17:59.310
on the other one and all you ever watch is fox

01:17:59.310 --> 01:18:02.829
and cnn just know the castle is laughing at you

01:18:02.829 --> 01:18:05.789
but if you all gang band together and say wait

01:18:05.789 --> 01:18:08.810
a second these decisions affect all of us then

01:18:08.810 --> 01:18:11.850
you start looking at the castle that changes

01:18:11.850 --> 01:18:14.430
everything So, you know, I think this is it.

01:18:14.470 --> 01:18:17.310
We've, they've done an amazing job of labeling

01:18:17.310 --> 01:18:20.270
the things that we need to be talking about politics

01:18:20.270 --> 01:18:24.289
so that we don't talk about it. Yeah. Yeah. No,

01:18:24.390 --> 01:18:28.350
there's, um, an old political leader, uh, long

01:18:28.350 --> 01:18:30.250
deceased now in Canada. His name's Tommy Douglas.

01:18:30.329 --> 01:18:33.090
And he was the founder of, um, Canada's the federal

01:18:33.090 --> 01:18:35.029
new democratic party, which would be like, uh,

01:18:36.590 --> 01:18:38.649
So in Canada, we have more than two parties.

01:18:39.289 --> 01:18:41.829
We have three, but typically two kind of alternate

01:18:41.829 --> 01:18:47.850
in terms of governance. So the NDP would be kind

01:18:47.850 --> 01:18:53.649
of like an even further left of center party

01:18:53.649 --> 01:18:58.310
than the Democrats in the United States. At any

01:18:58.310 --> 01:19:01.550
rate, so he had this expression, he called it

01:19:01.550 --> 01:19:06.109
black cat, white cat. you know every four years

01:19:06.109 --> 01:19:10.529
the mice voted uh which cat was going to be in

01:19:10.529 --> 01:19:13.890
charge and no matter what it was always a cat

01:19:13.890 --> 01:19:17.369
and and that's kind of that's i like that that

01:19:17.369 --> 01:19:19.149
my mom reminds me of this all the time my mom

01:19:19.149 --> 01:19:21.130
is one of the wisest women i know by the way

01:19:21.130 --> 01:19:23.829
shout out to my mom eileen who uh lives in beautiful

01:19:23.829 --> 01:19:29.449
burnaby british columbia um she she she shares

01:19:29.449 --> 01:19:30.930
these little nuggets with me but she she dropped

01:19:30.930 --> 01:19:32.810
that one on me uh years ago and it's one that

01:19:32.810 --> 01:19:35.760
stuck with me ever since and and and when i watch

01:19:35.760 --> 01:19:39.699
uh when i watch election cycles it feels very

01:19:39.699 --> 01:19:42.859
much like that you know it's like what you're

01:19:42.859 --> 01:19:44.739
saying well you guys pay attention over here

01:19:44.739 --> 01:19:46.699
look at all this stuff that we're telling you

01:19:46.699 --> 01:19:48.739
to look at and we'll just keep running things

01:19:48.739 --> 01:19:52.520
the way we fee we see fit um and the cats are

01:19:52.520 --> 01:19:56.640
still in charge maybe it's time for a mouse i

01:19:56.640 --> 01:19:58.659
don't know you know like it's that's kind of

01:19:58.659 --> 01:20:01.989
that's I'm really, I was fascinated. I was fascinated

01:20:01.989 --> 01:20:04.630
by the US election this time around because one,

01:20:05.890 --> 01:20:10.130
I was confident that the current US president

01:20:10.130 --> 01:20:13.869
was going to be successful. I don't think I was,

01:20:13.949 --> 01:20:17.449
I didn't expect it to be as statistically successful

01:20:17.449 --> 01:20:20.529
as it was, but nevertheless, I'm not surprised

01:20:20.529 --> 01:20:25.289
he's where he is. But I genuinely believe he's

01:20:25.289 --> 01:20:27.109
there for a reason, not for any political or

01:20:27.109 --> 01:20:30.630
partisan reason. I think he's there. as much

01:20:30.630 --> 01:20:33.729
as any leader is in place in various nations

01:20:33.729 --> 01:20:39.130
around the world for evolutionary reasons that

01:20:39.130 --> 01:20:47.569
are beyond the political spectrum. I think he's

01:20:47.569 --> 01:20:50.390
there to show us, to show the American people

01:20:50.390 --> 01:20:54.949
in particular, just how... Just how exploitable

01:20:54.949 --> 01:20:58.229
democracy is. And, you know, let's face facts

01:20:58.229 --> 01:21:01.489
too, right? For you and I grew up in a generation

01:21:01.489 --> 01:21:04.149
and in a time, and our parents as well, grew

01:21:04.149 --> 01:21:08.109
up in a time where democracy was it. Like democracy

01:21:08.109 --> 01:21:12.890
was the only possible way to govern writ large.

01:21:13.149 --> 01:21:15.989
And it was the model for the world. And, you

01:21:15.989 --> 01:21:19.649
know, two nations fought quiet, cold wars, trying

01:21:19.649 --> 01:21:23.420
to foment. their own style of governance in different

01:21:23.420 --> 01:21:27.159
nations around the world for many decades. When

01:21:27.159 --> 01:21:29.460
we were born, we were brought up to believe that

01:21:29.460 --> 01:21:34.020
this was it, boy. It's an American -led global

01:21:34.020 --> 01:21:36.960
world order, and that'll always be the way it

01:21:36.960 --> 01:21:41.880
is. Fast forward to 2025, and we're learning

01:21:41.880 --> 01:21:44.680
that that's probably not the way it's going to

01:21:44.680 --> 01:21:50.460
be. The world's adjusting and adapting. As a

01:21:50.460 --> 01:21:53.479
result, and I think the current administration

01:21:53.479 --> 01:21:56.220
is in place to show the American people, hey,

01:21:56.399 --> 01:22:00.340
this is how this system can actually be leveraged

01:22:00.340 --> 01:22:04.279
for personal gain. Are you okay with that? You

01:22:04.279 --> 01:22:09.260
need to figure that out. Yeah, it's really interesting

01:22:09.260 --> 01:22:12.340
watching because one of my guests, I forget who

01:22:12.340 --> 01:22:15.399
it was now, but they made an excellent point.

01:22:15.500 --> 01:22:18.880
They said, America is the poster child for democracy.

01:22:19.659 --> 01:22:22.520
And I agree. And this is where people get these

01:22:22.520 --> 01:22:25.539
two things mixed up. America is a beautiful country

01:22:25.539 --> 01:22:28.760
and Americans actually are some of the most altruistic

01:22:28.760 --> 01:22:31.029
people. on the planet like if you look at the

01:22:31.029 --> 01:22:32.710
amount of donations and those kind of things

01:22:32.710 --> 01:22:34.970
agreed and when you know my feed for example

01:22:34.970 --> 01:22:37.489
on social media is full of american people doing

01:22:37.489 --> 01:22:39.810
beautiful things in their community you just

01:22:39.810 --> 01:22:42.970
don't see that on the news normally but but if

01:22:42.970 --> 01:22:45.390
this you know if you really want to sell this

01:22:45.390 --> 01:22:47.329
to the world because we're not a world police

01:22:47.329 --> 01:22:49.350
what should happen is you come up with this great

01:22:49.350 --> 01:22:53.250
great kind of community leadership model and

01:22:53.250 --> 01:22:55.289
other nations that go tell me more about that

01:22:55.289 --> 01:22:57.729
that seems to be really good but if you look

01:22:57.729 --> 01:23:00.010
in at the moment and again this is both sides

01:23:00.010 --> 01:23:02.670
of the aisle that have contributed to this. We

01:23:02.670 --> 01:23:05.109
have 70 % of the population that are obese or

01:23:05.109 --> 01:23:08.090
overweight, 40%, sorry, more than 40 % are now

01:23:08.090 --> 01:23:11.829
obese, clinically obese. You have numerous school

01:23:11.829 --> 01:23:14.390
shootings. We have, you know, a massive opioid

01:23:14.390 --> 01:23:17.850
crisis. We consume 75 % of the world's opioids

01:23:17.850 --> 01:23:20.369
and we only make up 4 % of the world's population.

01:23:20.590 --> 01:23:23.670
And we have almost 25 % of the world's incarcerated

01:23:23.670 --> 01:23:27.010
population. So when you look at those hard, cold

01:23:27.010 --> 01:23:30.399
facts. and you say our leadership model is the

01:23:30.399 --> 01:23:34.380
best, people on the outside are going, but it's

01:23:34.380 --> 01:23:38.460
not lining up. What are you talking about? And

01:23:38.460 --> 01:23:41.760
so the American people are beautiful. We've been

01:23:41.760 --> 01:23:44.539
portrayed by these people that we pay. You've

01:23:44.539 --> 01:23:47.119
got to remember, we pay their salaries. And so

01:23:47.119 --> 01:23:49.180
I think this is what I'm really seeing is like

01:23:49.180 --> 01:23:54.859
the analogy of the... the pottery you know let's

01:23:54.859 --> 01:23:57.100
say ghost you know when when the clay starts

01:23:57.100 --> 01:23:59.560
getting wobbly it spins and it just flies off

01:23:59.560 --> 01:24:02.100
into the wall i feel like that's what's happening

01:24:02.100 --> 01:24:04.979
now and that is a good thing because now people

01:24:04.979 --> 01:24:07.119
are starting to go well wait a second for example

01:24:07.119 --> 01:24:10.180
the current one a lot of people heard let's make

01:24:10.180 --> 01:24:12.159
america healthy again well that resonates with

01:24:12.159 --> 01:24:15.319
a lot of us absolutely let's you know i'm from

01:24:15.319 --> 01:24:17.699
a fire police military recruitment point of view

01:24:18.189 --> 01:24:20.810
we need healthy young people otherwise we're

01:24:20.810 --> 01:24:22.850
not going to protect our country anymore and

01:24:22.850 --> 01:24:25.569
what happens we're in june now and all i've heard

01:24:25.569 --> 01:24:27.930
is oh we're going to get rid of red food dye

01:24:27.930 --> 01:24:31.930
that's it you know i mean really that's six months

01:24:31.930 --> 01:24:34.430
worth of work going back to what should have

01:24:34.430 --> 01:24:36.369
been done decades ago like the rest of europe

01:24:36.369 --> 01:24:38.850
and everyone else so this is the point is i think

01:24:38.850 --> 01:24:41.520
really there is an awakening now And I truly

01:24:41.520 --> 01:24:43.979
believe that there is going to be a renaissance,

01:24:44.000 --> 01:24:47.260
a revolution of kindness, compassion, empathy,

01:24:47.460 --> 01:24:49.220
community, because I think people are sick and

01:24:49.220 --> 01:24:51.819
tired. And I agree, not just the one we got now,

01:24:51.899 --> 01:24:56.079
the one we had before as well. I mean, Idiocracy

01:24:56.079 --> 01:24:59.420
was a documentary. It wasn't a comedy. It's become

01:24:59.420 --> 01:25:03.600
a real thing, even down to the Crocs. So I hope

01:25:03.600 --> 01:25:06.119
now that we're finally going to take a step back

01:25:06.119 --> 01:25:08.039
and really, and this is where the younger generation

01:25:08.039 --> 01:25:11.060
comes in. They understand this a lot more and

01:25:11.060 --> 01:25:14.399
they're course correcting our generation of,

01:25:14.420 --> 01:25:16.619
you know, what is most important, whether it's

01:25:16.619 --> 01:25:18.520
recruitment in the first responder professions

01:25:18.520 --> 01:25:20.619
or whether it's the actual state of the nation.

01:25:20.939 --> 01:25:24.319
So now that this pendulum swung all the way from

01:25:24.319 --> 01:25:26.479
some of these extreme conversations that were

01:25:26.479 --> 01:25:29.300
being forced on us, as the pendulum comes into

01:25:29.300 --> 01:25:32.380
the middle, it goes back to, as we said, the

01:25:32.380 --> 01:25:34.880
very things from ancient wisdom, from the religious

01:25:34.880 --> 01:25:38.619
scriptures. kindness, compassion, empathy, community.

01:25:39.220 --> 01:25:41.840
Those are the tenants that the humanity has been

01:25:41.840 --> 01:25:43.560
built on. That's why we're still here today.

01:25:43.659 --> 01:25:46.579
If it's all about war and combat, we'd all be

01:25:46.579 --> 01:25:49.020
dead. We would have smited ourselves off the

01:25:49.020 --> 01:25:52.640
planet. So I hope that we will have this kind

01:25:52.640 --> 01:25:55.180
of, as you said, heart -led revolution now where

01:25:55.180 --> 01:25:57.500
we start realizing that we got to change the

01:25:57.500 --> 01:26:00.880
way that we even elect these people so that companies

01:26:00.880 --> 01:26:03.039
can't line their pockets and they're forced upon

01:26:03.039 --> 01:26:06.520
us. Yeah, yeah, exactly right. And, you know,

01:26:06.520 --> 01:26:08.560
we're kind of, it's been interesting watching

01:26:08.560 --> 01:26:14.439
Canadian politics in particular in response to,

01:26:14.539 --> 01:26:17.659
you know, the current sort of tremors in the

01:26:17.659 --> 01:26:19.420
relationship between our two nations politically.

01:26:19.500 --> 01:26:26.600
And Canadians, God bless us, we're like not very

01:26:26.600 --> 01:26:30.359
good at patriotism. You know, we're not flag

01:26:30.359 --> 01:26:33.189
wavers, we're not. You know, you're not going

01:26:33.189 --> 01:26:34.850
to drive down the average Canadian street and

01:26:34.850 --> 01:26:37.510
see flags hanging from people's doorsteps and

01:26:37.510 --> 01:26:41.069
that sort of thing. And, you know, every now

01:26:41.069 --> 01:26:43.710
and then we rally around a hockey team and that's

01:26:43.710 --> 01:26:46.229
about the extent of it. And so Canadian patriotism,

01:26:46.250 --> 01:26:49.789
in my estimation anyway, has been it's a lost

01:26:49.789 --> 01:26:54.069
art. You know, last time I remember seeing it.

01:26:54.319 --> 01:26:58.399
in any meaningful way was in Vancouver when Vancouver

01:26:58.399 --> 01:27:01.720
Whistler hosted the 2010 Winter Olympics. But

01:27:01.720 --> 01:27:04.319
again, it's around sport, right? Not just the

01:27:04.319 --> 01:27:08.279
concept of nationhood. But it's been interesting

01:27:08.279 --> 01:27:12.779
watching the Canadian response to the current

01:27:12.779 --> 01:27:17.500
goings on with the tariff trade war and whatnot.

01:27:18.560 --> 01:27:20.960
And these assertions about, you know, fentanyl

01:27:20.960 --> 01:27:23.199
from Canada and illegal immigrants from Canada

01:27:23.199 --> 01:27:25.640
and all this kind of stuff. It's been really

01:27:25.640 --> 01:27:27.560
fascinating to watch because Canadians are really

01:27:27.560 --> 01:27:30.720
gelling, right? Like they're really, nothing

01:27:30.720 --> 01:27:34.239
brings a people together like an external threat.

01:27:35.560 --> 01:27:39.760
And, you know, when you've got a sitting president

01:27:39.760 --> 01:27:42.600
of the United States talking about annexation,

01:27:42.840 --> 01:27:46.739
nothing irks, you know, 40 million people quite

01:27:46.739 --> 01:27:49.720
like that. So it's been fascinating watching

01:27:49.720 --> 01:27:56.260
that. And our last government administration

01:27:56.260 --> 01:27:59.619
prior to our current prime minister's election

01:27:59.619 --> 01:28:06.159
left a lot to be desired. I think there's good

01:28:06.159 --> 01:28:09.779
argument for whether intentional or not, that

01:28:09.779 --> 01:28:14.760
it was a very divisive regime. And so watching

01:28:14.760 --> 01:28:18.500
this new administration kind of... roll out their

01:28:18.500 --> 01:28:24.819
approach and their style has been a nice change

01:28:24.819 --> 01:28:27.819
of pace as well. It's a bit of a breath of fresh

01:28:27.819 --> 01:28:35.439
air, frankly. I'm buoyed by the fact that Canadians

01:28:35.439 --> 01:28:37.319
are finding their footing again as a people.

01:28:38.460 --> 01:28:41.600
It's nice to see. I would have loved to have

01:28:41.600 --> 01:28:45.039
seen what it was like to be Canadian during times

01:28:45.039 --> 01:28:49.300
like World War II. Um, and, and perhaps this

01:28:49.300 --> 01:28:51.680
is, this is that moment for, for our generation

01:28:51.680 --> 01:28:54.000
and, and the, the, the subsequent generations,

01:28:54.039 --> 01:28:56.220
uh, you know, time will, time will, of course,

01:28:56.220 --> 01:29:02.539
time will of course tell. Um, but, uh, you know,

01:29:02.539 --> 01:29:04.960
it gets me thinking about the sort of broader

01:29:04.960 --> 01:29:08.640
planet, uh, and, and our ability to come together

01:29:08.640 --> 01:29:12.880
as one human people. And, um, and I don't, I'm

01:29:12.880 --> 01:29:15.159
not talking about like one world order and all

01:29:15.159 --> 01:29:17.350
this other. you know, stuff that's out there

01:29:17.350 --> 01:29:21.170
on various parts of the internet. I'm just talking

01:29:21.170 --> 01:29:24.050
about as a, as a, as humanity, right. As, as,

01:29:24.210 --> 01:29:30.390
as human beings coming together and, and I'm

01:29:30.390 --> 01:29:32.270
still not sure how we're going to do that. I,

01:29:32.289 --> 01:29:34.310
you know, I think we're, I think we're years

01:29:34.310 --> 01:29:40.250
away from some kind of event that might, might

01:29:40.250 --> 01:29:44.109
gel humanity. um, more closely together. I think

01:29:44.109 --> 01:29:46.090
that's the ultimate evolution though. It's like

01:29:46.090 --> 01:29:49.470
where we all, we all see each, each other as

01:29:49.470 --> 01:29:52.770
the unique and very cool, um, beautiful human

01:29:52.770 --> 01:29:56.630
beings that we are, uh, whatever flag we operate

01:29:56.630 --> 01:29:59.470
under, whatever geography we find ourselves born

01:29:59.470 --> 01:30:04.069
into, uh, or immigrate to. Um, you know, I think

01:30:04.069 --> 01:30:06.350
that's, that's where, that's where we're headed.

01:30:06.710 --> 01:30:11.300
Uh, I hope to see it in my lifetime. Um, But

01:30:11.300 --> 01:30:16.239
I feel like my role is in whatever small way

01:30:16.239 --> 01:30:20.359
I can in my small corner of the world to do everything

01:30:20.359 --> 01:30:24.340
I can to lead with empathy, compassion, love,

01:30:24.560 --> 01:30:30.380
caring, and authenticity in every single moment

01:30:30.380 --> 01:30:35.300
of every day. If I'm doing that and that encourages

01:30:35.300 --> 01:30:37.720
other people to do it, or if more of us are doing

01:30:37.720 --> 01:30:39.479
it, then eventually we get to where we need to

01:30:39.479 --> 01:30:43.060
be as a people. I got to ask you though, James,

01:30:43.159 --> 01:30:44.560
and again, I started to flip the script here,

01:30:44.579 --> 01:30:47.399
dude, but I was just having a chat with a friend

01:30:47.399 --> 01:30:48.840
of mine the other day. Do you remember all the

01:30:48.840 --> 01:30:53.739
hubbub around the orbs and UAPs and all that

01:30:53.739 --> 01:30:56.420
sort of stuff off the East Coast in November

01:30:56.420 --> 01:31:00.279
and December? last year vaguely i think because

01:31:00.279 --> 01:31:03.359
i know joe rogan you know gets stuck in every

01:31:03.359 --> 01:31:05.739
time that topic comes up but uh yeah yeah yeah

01:31:05.739 --> 01:31:07.699
it's not something that's normally on my radar

01:31:07.699 --> 01:31:10.619
no okay well anyway i'm just like where did that

01:31:10.619 --> 01:31:12.779
go where are the aliens now aren't they supposed

01:31:12.779 --> 01:31:14.899
to be coming they were sick of all the politics

01:31:14.899 --> 01:31:17.479
too they fucked back off to their plans they're

01:31:17.479 --> 01:31:19.520
like we're gonna hang around oh wait wait that

01:31:19.520 --> 01:31:21.180
administration didn't go the way we wanted it

01:31:21.180 --> 01:31:23.729
to we're out of here for a while Well, I just

01:31:23.729 --> 01:31:26.130
want to flip it back to you before we can. I

01:31:26.130 --> 01:31:28.470
want to hit one more topic, then talk about some

01:31:28.470 --> 01:31:31.909
of your healing story after this issue that you

01:31:31.909 --> 01:31:35.149
had. But before we do, talk to me about your

01:31:35.149 --> 01:31:38.229
journey into border services. And then I'd love

01:31:38.229 --> 01:31:40.569
to debunk some of these myths that you're hearing

01:31:40.569 --> 01:31:44.670
about the Canadian border from either way. Some

01:31:44.670 --> 01:31:47.289
of the things that are a challenge and some of

01:31:47.289 --> 01:31:49.109
the myths that you're hearing that actually aren't

01:31:49.109 --> 01:31:54.060
truthful. Okay. Well, my journey into it isn't

01:31:54.060 --> 01:31:56.060
terribly exciting. I didn't wake up one day and

01:31:56.060 --> 01:31:58.439
go, gosh, I really want to protect the border.

01:32:00.119 --> 01:32:04.500
As a kid, and in high school in particular, I

01:32:04.500 --> 01:32:06.880
was gravitating towards law enforcement as a

01:32:06.880 --> 01:32:13.000
career. And through life circumstances, early

01:32:13.000 --> 01:32:19.220
20s, I didn't find my way there directly. I worked

01:32:19.220 --> 01:32:20.979
a few different jobs doing different things.

01:32:21.100 --> 01:32:24.359
And then I ended up in the casino industry working

01:32:24.359 --> 01:32:26.600
security and surveillance, which was a little

01:32:26.600 --> 01:32:31.939
more aligned in terms of competencies. And then,

01:32:32.140 --> 01:32:36.220
God bless my mom. She phoned me up one day and

01:32:36.220 --> 01:32:40.699
said, hey, it was customs at the time, Canada

01:32:40.699 --> 01:32:44.079
customs at the time. And I said, my friend works

01:32:44.079 --> 01:32:46.359
there. She thinks you do really well at it. You

01:32:46.359 --> 01:32:48.569
should apply. They're hiring. So I'm like, okay.

01:32:48.829 --> 01:32:50.930
So I, I, you know, I applied and went through

01:32:50.930 --> 01:32:54.029
the process and, um, you know, kept getting screened

01:32:54.029 --> 01:32:55.409
into the next stage, the next stage, the next

01:32:55.409 --> 01:32:58.869
stage. And then, uh, you know, finally they call

01:32:58.869 --> 01:33:00.289
me up and said, Hey, we, we want to offer you

01:33:00.289 --> 01:33:03.949
a position. I'm like, okay, great. Um, and so

01:33:03.949 --> 01:33:06.609
I started, uh, I started my career in uniform

01:33:06.609 --> 01:33:09.909
at the Vancouver national airport in obviously,

01:33:10.010 --> 01:33:11.449
uh, just outside of Vancouver. It's in Richmond,

01:33:11.510 --> 01:33:16.529
BC. Uh, and I worked there for, uh, uh, about

01:33:16.529 --> 01:33:21.270
a year and a half, including our academy time.

01:33:21.930 --> 01:33:27.489
Then I moved to the land border for several years

01:33:27.489 --> 01:33:33.670
across from Washington, so we border Washington.

01:33:34.390 --> 01:33:38.050
Then I moved from there into immigration enforcement,

01:33:38.350 --> 01:33:42.079
so plainclothes work. And then from there, a

01:33:42.079 --> 01:33:45.460
couple of promotions and into intelligence work,

01:33:45.539 --> 01:33:52.279
which is where I finished my career. Debunk,

01:33:52.300 --> 01:33:58.039
debunk. So I spent eight years working in intelligence.

01:33:58.079 --> 01:34:03.760
And so my job was to run a team of... intelligence

01:34:03.760 --> 01:34:05.779
officers, intelligence analysts, and part of

01:34:05.779 --> 01:34:08.819
my team's responsibilities were focused exclusively

01:34:08.819 --> 01:34:14.399
on opioids and synthetic drugs. The landscape,

01:34:14.699 --> 01:34:16.939
I'm not talking out of school here. I'm not sharing

01:34:16.939 --> 01:34:20.840
any classified or protected information when

01:34:20.840 --> 01:34:26.579
I say it's all publicly available. The state

01:34:26.579 --> 01:34:30.260
of things as it was, now my knowledge is a little

01:34:30.260 --> 01:34:32.640
bit dated. Um, cause I've been out for over a

01:34:32.640 --> 01:34:42.060
year, but, um, BC is the Asian hub, uh, for commercial

01:34:42.060 --> 01:34:44.579
imports, uh, as well as, you know, passenger

01:34:44.579 --> 01:34:45.880
arrival and that kind of stuff, right? It's North

01:34:45.880 --> 01:34:49.920
America's, um, one of North America's largest

01:34:49.920 --> 01:34:54.340
Asian hubs. And so the reality, the reality of

01:34:54.340 --> 01:34:57.319
the fentanyl situation is, uh, based on my experience

01:34:57.319 --> 01:35:02.100
is, uh, precursor chemicals are imported. large,

01:35:02.260 --> 01:35:05.819
large scale, large, large quantity to Canada

01:35:05.819 --> 01:35:11.180
into BC and specific. They are then utilized

01:35:11.180 --> 01:35:15.979
for the purposes of synthesizing fentanyl, synthesizing

01:35:15.979 --> 01:35:21.579
methamphetamines. And then those, and I'll say

01:35:21.579 --> 01:35:23.880
this, synthesizing those drugs in quantities

01:35:23.880 --> 01:35:26.300
that far exceed what our domestic demand would

01:35:26.300 --> 01:35:34.659
be. And to some degree, those drugs are exported

01:35:34.659 --> 01:35:37.319
to various nations, including the United States.

01:35:39.239 --> 01:35:45.420
As far as where the significant threat to the

01:35:45.420 --> 01:35:50.840
United States lies with respect to those kinds

01:35:50.840 --> 01:35:54.640
of drugs being smuggled in to the U .S., it's

01:35:54.640 --> 01:35:59.510
certainly Canada is a player. But Canada is not

01:35:59.510 --> 01:36:06.989
your biggest problem, right? So that's kind of

01:36:06.989 --> 01:36:10.970
the reality. What's been a little frustrating

01:36:10.970 --> 01:36:18.350
to watch is our government's response to the

01:36:18.350 --> 01:36:23.189
US administration's stance on this, throwing

01:36:23.189 --> 01:36:29.109
more people at the land border. And, you know,

01:36:29.109 --> 01:36:31.890
leasing some helicopters for the RCMP so they

01:36:31.890 --> 01:36:34.489
can fly around along the land border and try

01:36:34.489 --> 01:36:38.289
and spot people is probably, in my opinion, not,

01:36:38.390 --> 01:36:41.810
well, not probably. It is absolutely not the

01:36:41.810 --> 01:36:45.750
best way to address this threat that is very

01:36:45.750 --> 01:36:50.170
real and very present. And they're missing the

01:36:50.170 --> 01:36:53.039
boat, frankly, literally. Missing the boat because

01:36:53.039 --> 01:36:55.560
that's where the efforts need to be. That's where

01:36:55.560 --> 01:36:58.300
the resources need to go. But it's not as sexy

01:36:58.300 --> 01:37:00.800
and not as easy to point to the public and say,

01:37:00.859 --> 01:37:03.579
hey, look, see what we're doing? By having a

01:37:03.579 --> 01:37:05.300
bunch of analysts crunch through a whole bunch

01:37:05.300 --> 01:37:07.340
of commercial data and try and find out which

01:37:07.340 --> 01:37:10.520
container of any number of thousands on any number

01:37:10.520 --> 01:37:14.420
of thousands of ships has in it a few barrels

01:37:14.420 --> 01:37:19.750
of, you know. uh aniline or uh t -box for ap

01:37:19.750 --> 01:37:22.949
or for piperidone or because none of that shit's

01:37:22.949 --> 01:37:25.229
sexy right no one thinks that's cool the public

01:37:25.229 --> 01:37:27.369
doesn't understand it as well as they understand

01:37:27.369 --> 01:37:31.350
you know a trophy shot in front of a few bricks

01:37:31.350 --> 01:37:37.159
of coke so um it's From the outside looking in,

01:37:37.199 --> 01:37:40.140
pretty frustrating. I'm grateful that I'm not

01:37:40.140 --> 01:37:42.960
in that position anymore and holding any responsibility

01:37:42.960 --> 01:37:45.340
for addressing it. I did my time. I'm proud of

01:37:45.340 --> 01:37:50.100
my service. But, you know, if you really want

01:37:50.100 --> 01:37:52.239
to, in my opinion, if you really want to address

01:37:52.239 --> 01:37:57.680
the threat, our eyes need to be squarely trained

01:37:57.680 --> 01:38:02.640
on the source of those chemicals. And that means

01:38:02.640 --> 01:38:05.710
a whole of government. approach to addressing

01:38:05.710 --> 01:38:09.630
um addressing the issue with with our number

01:38:09.630 --> 01:38:13.210
one source nation for those uh for those chemicals

01:38:13.210 --> 01:38:16.770
and that is absolutely china i think flipping

01:38:16.770 --> 01:38:19.430
it around and i think i'm sure gaba mate i know

01:38:19.430 --> 01:38:22.449
johan hari for example are a huge proponents

01:38:22.449 --> 01:38:25.420
of this But if you, again, like we talk with

01:38:25.420 --> 01:38:27.380
governments, if you take a step back as humanity,

01:38:27.779 --> 01:38:30.340
firstly, educate yourself on the beginning of

01:38:30.340 --> 01:38:32.920
drug prohibition. It was on the absolute failure,

01:38:33.000 --> 01:38:35.720
the back end of the failure of alcohol prohibition.

01:38:35.739 --> 01:38:38.800
We only know Al Capone because of the crime that

01:38:38.800 --> 01:38:41.380
came out of prohibition. And you look at Harry

01:38:41.380 --> 01:38:44.699
Anslinger, and it was out of racism and job justification

01:38:44.699 --> 01:38:47.060
that that even started with the reefer madness.

01:38:47.220 --> 01:38:51.020
And then it progressed and progressed. You know,

01:38:51.079 --> 01:38:53.840
I know our professions we see. you know, the

01:38:53.840 --> 01:38:57.359
ripple effect of prohibition. And so now you

01:38:57.359 --> 01:39:00.239
empower the shitbags of the world, the underworld,

01:39:00.460 --> 01:39:03.819
because you force your addicts into the shadows

01:39:03.819 --> 01:39:06.000
to get their, whatever they need, as you said,

01:39:06.039 --> 01:39:08.199
whatever's going to fill that void from the worst

01:39:08.199 --> 01:39:10.880
people. And so one of the things that I think

01:39:10.880 --> 01:39:13.779
would be so effective, and Portugal is a perfect

01:39:13.779 --> 01:39:15.779
example of this, they had a massive success,

01:39:16.060 --> 01:39:20.609
is just to basically stop making addiction. Now,

01:39:20.770 --> 01:39:22.829
it doesn't mean selling and smuggling. No, absolutely.

01:39:23.109 --> 01:39:24.869
That's what Portugal did. They freed up all the

01:39:24.869 --> 01:39:27.510
resources to come down on the smugglers and the

01:39:27.510 --> 01:39:30.529
dealers with a freaking iron fist. But their

01:39:30.529 --> 01:39:33.689
addicts, they poured all their resources into

01:39:33.689 --> 01:39:36.529
mental health counseling, addiction counseling,

01:39:36.729 --> 01:39:39.829
job creation, housing. And they, within less

01:39:39.829 --> 01:39:41.670
than 10 years, went from the worst addiction

01:39:41.670 --> 01:39:45.109
crisis to the lowest. I keep saying I'm going

01:39:45.109 --> 01:39:46.689
to look this up. I haven't yet. But either in

01:39:46.689 --> 01:39:48.630
Europe or in the world, I forget. Either way,

01:39:48.710 --> 01:39:52.729
incredible. So to me, one of the ways that you

01:39:52.729 --> 01:39:54.729
cut the head off the snake is you remove the

01:39:54.729 --> 01:39:57.750
consumer. If those people that are using fentanyl

01:39:57.750 --> 01:40:00.710
in whatever capacity can now go through a legal

01:40:00.710 --> 01:40:03.149
medicinal route because they're in the hands

01:40:03.149 --> 01:40:05.670
of the medical community, you've just cut the

01:40:05.670 --> 01:40:08.550
legs from whether it's the Mexican cartels, the

01:40:08.550 --> 01:40:12.170
Chinese fentanyl importers. So but you never

01:40:12.170 --> 01:40:14.789
hear that conversation. And even with the American

01:40:14.789 --> 01:40:16.710
police and why they look like they're going to

01:40:16.710 --> 01:40:19.770
war, because we've created this horrendous condition

01:40:19.770 --> 01:40:21.949
on the street. I mean, every single day we see

01:40:21.949 --> 01:40:24.729
police officers murdered left, right and center.

01:40:24.829 --> 01:40:27.069
And a big part of that is our prohibition laws.

01:40:27.409 --> 01:40:30.210
So I think that's another really interesting

01:40:30.210 --> 01:40:32.170
going back to the kindness, compassion, empathy

01:40:32.170 --> 01:40:36.829
is to stop locking up addicts and empower law

01:40:36.829 --> 01:40:39.229
enforcement to, as you said, get to the source,

01:40:39.250 --> 01:40:42.340
but also. Cut the legs out of the consumer, like

01:40:42.340 --> 01:40:44.819
send them into addiction counseling who then,

01:40:44.880 --> 01:40:47.180
you know, become functioning members of society

01:40:47.180 --> 01:40:49.920
that are paying taxes and are happy and healthy.

01:40:50.760 --> 01:40:53.020
Yeah, on a personal level, I completely agree.

01:40:53.579 --> 01:40:57.880
So the province of BC, I want to say it's about

01:40:57.880 --> 01:41:00.000
two years ago now, a little over two years ago,

01:41:00.079 --> 01:41:03.500
applied for an exemption under Canada's drug

01:41:03.500 --> 01:41:06.680
laws to decriminalize personal possession of

01:41:06.680 --> 01:41:10.189
all controlled substances. And that includes

01:41:10.189 --> 01:41:12.470
personal, personal possession of fentanyl under

01:41:12.470 --> 01:41:19.170
certain, under certain weight. And I had, I had

01:41:19.170 --> 01:41:22.270
a physician, a Canadian physician, Dr. Scott

01:41:22.270 --> 01:41:26.250
McDonald on the show. He runs the Providence

01:41:26.250 --> 01:41:29.890
Crosstown Clinic in Vancouver, which works with,

01:41:29.890 --> 01:41:34.909
works with substance, substance users. And, and

01:41:34.909 --> 01:41:41.010
he was, he was like you very adamant that decriminalizing

01:41:41.010 --> 01:41:44.010
was absolutely, no, not surprising. He's a physician,

01:41:44.130 --> 01:41:46.970
so his perspective is very different. He was

01:41:46.970 --> 01:41:50.489
adamant that decriminalization was an absolute

01:41:50.489 --> 01:41:55.409
necessary component of a broader set of policies

01:41:55.409 --> 01:42:01.430
that will help us address this problem. And so

01:42:01.430 --> 01:42:04.890
I don't disagree. I think you're right. I think

01:42:04.890 --> 01:42:08.319
he's right. And I think the statistics in British

01:42:08.319 --> 01:42:12.239
Columbia are starting to bear the fruits of that

01:42:12.239 --> 01:42:16.340
policy change. That was one of the things I was

01:42:16.340 --> 01:42:19.439
struggling with personally and professionally

01:42:19.439 --> 01:42:26.500
in the sort of latter years of my career was,

01:42:26.680 --> 01:42:29.680
you know, here I am in charge of a team of people

01:42:29.680 --> 01:42:34.550
whose sole raison d 'etre is to target, identify,

01:42:34.609 --> 01:42:37.250
and generate intelligence, helps our frontline

01:42:37.250 --> 01:42:39.609
folks seize the chemicals that are being used

01:42:39.609 --> 01:42:41.890
to make stuff that's killing British Columbians

01:42:41.890 --> 01:42:46.310
and Canadians and Americans in the hundreds and

01:42:46.310 --> 01:42:50.449
thousands. And every year, the BC coroner would

01:42:50.449 --> 01:42:53.289
produce their statistics, and that number kept

01:42:53.289 --> 01:42:55.329
growing and growing and growing despite our efforts.

01:42:55.470 --> 01:42:58.569
And it's ridiculous to think that my small team,

01:42:58.630 --> 01:43:02.829
mighty though it was, was was the linchpin for,

01:43:02.930 --> 01:43:05.829
for the overall success of those numbers dropping.

01:43:06.170 --> 01:43:09.510
That's it. I'm not naive enough to think that,

01:43:09.569 --> 01:43:12.109
but, but I kept hoping that, you know, maybe,

01:43:12.210 --> 01:43:15.909
maybe just maybe, um, we would be nibbling away

01:43:15.909 --> 01:43:17.630
at those numbers in some way. Cause we were getting

01:43:17.630 --> 01:43:20.109
significant results. My team was absolutely phenomenal

01:43:20.109 --> 01:43:22.949
at what they were doing. And, um, we were getting

01:43:22.949 --> 01:43:24.789
very significant results and they were awarded

01:43:24.789 --> 01:43:27.550
by, by the agency president as a result. Um,

01:43:28.010 --> 01:43:30.489
uh of their of their efforts and success but

01:43:30.489 --> 01:43:32.170
it's just that number kept growing and growing

01:43:32.170 --> 01:43:35.529
and growing so what that tells me uh in hindsight

01:43:35.529 --> 01:43:39.689
of course is that um enforcement alone will never

01:43:39.689 --> 01:43:43.810
ever be the answer like it has to be it has to

01:43:43.810 --> 01:43:46.149
be in conjunction with other other policy changes

01:43:46.149 --> 01:43:49.210
other program uh programs that are made available

01:43:49.210 --> 01:43:55.210
um to to work and um i'm hopeful i'm you know

01:43:55.210 --> 01:43:58.119
i'm hopeful that As time goes on here, more and

01:43:58.119 --> 01:44:01.800
more we'll see that. But the reality remains

01:44:01.800 --> 01:44:05.220
that so long as there are users, legal or otherwise,

01:44:05.699 --> 01:44:09.020
these types of substances are going to continue

01:44:09.020 --> 01:44:12.979
to be a clear and present threat to the society

01:44:12.979 --> 01:44:21.340
that they're being used in. And when I consider

01:44:21.340 --> 01:44:28.699
the source of the chemicals, um, the, the nature

01:44:28.699 --> 01:44:30.659
of the government in the, in that country and

01:44:30.659 --> 01:44:33.539
its relationship with, uh, the U S in particular,

01:44:33.739 --> 01:44:37.199
uh, it's pretty obvious to, you know, to anyone

01:44:37.199 --> 01:44:40.079
who's got any sense of any of this, that, uh,

01:44:40.119 --> 01:44:43.579
that Canada is very much being, uh, uh, is the,

01:44:43.579 --> 01:44:45.279
is the battleground of a proxy where it's being

01:44:45.279 --> 01:44:47.479
fought between two nations, jock jockeying for

01:44:47.479 --> 01:44:51.939
global, global supremacy. And, and, um, and that's

01:44:51.939 --> 01:44:54.619
unfortunate for, for those of us on this side

01:44:54.619 --> 01:44:58.220
of the border. But it's a reality we can't duck

01:44:58.220 --> 01:45:01.020
our heads in the sand over. And it's one I hope

01:45:01.020 --> 01:45:04.539
that we're starting to wake up to in a way that

01:45:04.539 --> 01:45:08.720
we've been too asleep to for far too long. Yeah,

01:45:08.739 --> 01:45:11.079
no, I agree completely. It makes sense. I've

01:45:11.079 --> 01:45:13.319
sat with the guy that spearheaded it in Portugal

01:45:13.319 --> 01:45:15.779
in his office in Lisbon. And we did an interview,

01:45:15.779 --> 01:45:18.949
did the second one a while ago. You just take

01:45:18.949 --> 01:45:20.710
a step back and go, well, what do these people

01:45:20.710 --> 01:45:22.750
need? And it goes back to, again, that pee under

01:45:22.750 --> 01:45:25.329
the mattress. The addiction is just the thing

01:45:25.329 --> 01:45:27.310
that they're filling the void with. So you get

01:45:27.310 --> 01:45:30.310
that person healed. They don't need that thing

01:45:30.310 --> 01:45:33.029
anymore. But you're not going to heal them by

01:45:33.029 --> 01:45:35.670
sending them into some dark alley buying whatever

01:45:35.670 --> 01:45:38.149
it is that they need. You heal them by bringing

01:45:38.149 --> 01:45:40.810
them, again, that community response, enveloping

01:45:40.810 --> 01:45:43.710
them and helping them heal. But also you've got

01:45:43.710 --> 01:45:45.369
to understand that some people are just too far

01:45:45.369 --> 01:45:48.239
gone. that you can't save everyone. That's the

01:45:48.239 --> 01:45:51.220
goal. But what happens more often than not is

01:45:51.220 --> 01:45:53.079
they'll piecemeal it here. I mean, our healthcare

01:45:53.079 --> 01:45:55.380
system is a perfect example, the Obamacare thing.

01:45:55.699 --> 01:45:57.899
They'll half -ass it and then go, see, it doesn't

01:45:57.899 --> 01:45:59.880
work. And that's what they do in some of the

01:45:59.880 --> 01:46:06.100
cities here where they said they decriminalized,

01:46:06.100 --> 01:46:09.079
but they didn't pour money into the healing element.

01:46:09.439 --> 01:46:11.579
You know, the addiction counseling, the mental

01:46:11.579 --> 01:46:14.600
health counseling, the job creation. When you

01:46:14.600 --> 01:46:16.979
have these people that are drowning in addiction,

01:46:17.140 --> 01:46:19.159
you don't just take away the thing or tell them

01:46:19.159 --> 01:46:20.819
they can use it without being arrested. You've

01:46:20.819 --> 01:46:22.579
got to be, well, let's find out why you're using

01:46:22.579 --> 01:46:24.720
it. And let's not give you a criminal record

01:46:24.720 --> 01:46:27.119
so you can get a job and you can find housing,

01:46:27.220 --> 01:46:29.739
get you back on your feet. And now you're thriving

01:46:29.739 --> 01:46:31.720
and your bucket, you know, those holes are starting

01:46:31.720 --> 01:46:34.039
to be patched and you don't need this opioid

01:46:34.039 --> 01:46:36.810
or this alcohol or whatever it is anymore. So

01:46:36.810 --> 01:46:40.369
it just makes perfect sense. And the real, you

01:46:40.369 --> 01:46:44.670
know, fuck you to an enemy nation is to have

01:46:44.670 --> 01:46:48.449
a nation of healthy, happy people that are able

01:46:48.449 --> 01:46:51.069
if they cross into your barriers. But the way

01:46:51.069 --> 01:46:54.170
you destroy the ability to protect your nation

01:46:54.170 --> 01:46:56.909
is you allow a mental health crisis, an opioid

01:46:56.909 --> 01:47:00.329
crisis, an obesity crisis. So look in the mirror,

01:47:00.430 --> 01:47:03.189
ask yourself, oh, you know, that little snake

01:47:03.189 --> 01:47:05.609
you've got, you know, sticker on your car, don't

01:47:05.609 --> 01:47:08.449
tread on me. Well, how much resistance is there

01:47:08.449 --> 01:47:11.210
to someone treading on you? Are you living the

01:47:11.210 --> 01:47:13.909
kind of life that's going to allow you to, God

01:47:13.909 --> 01:47:15.770
forbid, actually protect your family if that

01:47:15.770 --> 01:47:18.430
happens? So this all circles around again to

01:47:18.430 --> 01:47:21.189
the community, the village, the tribe, you know,

01:47:21.189 --> 01:47:23.789
are these decisions empowering your nation or

01:47:23.789 --> 01:47:27.210
are they destroying it? And this drug prohibition

01:47:27.210 --> 01:47:29.949
has absolutely destroyed it. So I think this

01:47:29.949 --> 01:47:31.930
is a really important conversation. If you really

01:47:31.930 --> 01:47:33.989
are an American, you value the health of your

01:47:33.989 --> 01:47:37.590
people and the security of your nation, then

01:47:37.590 --> 01:47:40.310
we have to turn this around because there's an

01:47:40.310 --> 01:47:43.949
80 plus year longitudinal study of if it works.

01:47:44.069 --> 01:47:46.750
And clearly it doesn't because our streets are

01:47:46.750 --> 01:47:49.289
ravaged with addiction and gangs. So it's time

01:47:49.289 --> 01:47:52.600
to have a different approach. Yeah. I completely

01:47:52.600 --> 01:47:56.819
agree, James. I completely agree. I don't know

01:47:56.819 --> 01:47:59.979
how long it'll be before we get there, but you

01:47:59.979 --> 01:48:02.819
know, little by little incremental change, right?

01:48:03.600 --> 01:48:07.439
That's the, that's the hope anyway. But we still,

01:48:07.479 --> 01:48:09.140
you have to have the hammer. You have to have

01:48:09.140 --> 01:48:11.060
the hammer on that large scale stuff, right?

01:48:11.159 --> 01:48:15.529
Because it's being leveraged as a weapon. A hundred

01:48:15.529 --> 01:48:16.850
percent. And this is where this is the thing,

01:48:16.930 --> 01:48:19.289
like rather than a completely overtaxed police

01:48:19.289 --> 01:48:21.890
force, you stop them having to arrest addicts.

01:48:21.890 --> 01:48:24.949
Now we saw this in Portugal, the court system,

01:48:25.170 --> 01:48:27.750
the resources, you know, everything gets focused

01:48:27.750 --> 01:48:30.550
on the dealers and the smugglers. Boom. You know,

01:48:30.569 --> 01:48:33.350
now you've you've outpowered them. So I know

01:48:33.350 --> 01:48:35.449
we're getting short of time. I just want to kind

01:48:35.449 --> 01:48:37.449
of revisit. You mentioned about the struggles

01:48:37.449 --> 01:48:40.329
a year ago. You mentioned about finding a counselor

01:48:40.329 --> 01:48:44.289
as we sit here now. What were, what was your

01:48:44.289 --> 01:48:46.930
own personal toolbox of things that you found

01:48:46.930 --> 01:48:49.250
that have really allowed you to, to come out

01:48:49.250 --> 01:48:52.609
of that, you know, that inner monologue of considering

01:48:52.609 --> 01:48:56.970
the pistol to where we are sitting today? Um,

01:48:56.970 --> 01:49:01.550
obviously having a support network, um, is a

01:49:01.550 --> 01:49:03.770
big, big part of that. My wife has been an absolute,

01:49:03.789 --> 01:49:08.869
absolute rock, just an absolute champion, um,

01:49:09.069 --> 01:49:13.710
throughout, uh, my mother, my sister. um, as

01:49:13.710 --> 01:49:15.890
well, like, uh, you know, having, and, and having,

01:49:15.989 --> 01:49:20.189
having friends kind of step out of, step out

01:49:20.189 --> 01:49:22.550
of the woodwork that I had, I didn't expect would

01:49:22.550 --> 01:49:25.470
be there for me. Um, uh, where other friends

01:49:25.470 --> 01:49:27.210
didn't, you know what I mean? Friends, friends

01:49:27.210 --> 01:49:30.470
I expected might faded away friends that I didn't

01:49:30.470 --> 01:49:33.430
expect stepped in. So that, that was huge. Um,

01:49:33.689 --> 01:49:36.949
but, but personally, uh, I I've said this, I've

01:49:36.949 --> 01:49:39.770
said this on another show as well. Uh, I there's

01:49:39.770 --> 01:49:42.029
three wins a day. I try and get. Physical win,

01:49:42.069 --> 01:49:46.369
a mental win, and a spiritual win. So every day

01:49:46.369 --> 01:49:48.390
I get up and journal, every single day, even

01:49:48.390 --> 01:49:49.729
if I don't feel like it, even if I don't think

01:49:49.729 --> 01:49:53.270
I have anything to rattle out of my brain. I

01:49:53.270 --> 01:49:56.029
get up and I just start writing. And it's amazing

01:49:56.029 --> 01:49:57.470
how many pages you can fill up when you just

01:49:57.470 --> 01:50:00.630
start and let go. So I journal every day. That's

01:50:00.630 --> 01:50:05.750
my mental win. Physical win, I love to swim.

01:50:05.829 --> 01:50:09.670
So I try and get to 1 ,000 to 1 ,200 meters in

01:50:09.670 --> 01:50:14.180
a day. help the body, um, in a, in a healthy

01:50:14.180 --> 01:50:18.619
way. And spiritually, uh, I, I sometimes fall

01:50:18.619 --> 01:50:21.020
down on this, but, but mindfulness practice throughout,

01:50:21.060 --> 01:50:23.399
throughout any given day, I try and bring mindfulness

01:50:23.399 --> 01:50:26.359
to everything I'm doing, but I also try and,

01:50:26.359 --> 01:50:30.420
um, carve time out to, to meditate. Um, and what

01:50:30.420 --> 01:50:33.760
I, what I find that allows me to do is, is I

01:50:33.760 --> 01:50:43.439
mentioned kind of closer to the I'd observed

01:50:43.439 --> 01:50:50.859
my thought as an observer versus as part of my

01:50:50.859 --> 01:50:54.840
identity. And meditation has allowed me to strengthen

01:50:54.840 --> 01:51:03.140
that to the point where for the most part, depending

01:51:03.140 --> 01:51:07.239
on the circumstances or the external kind of...

01:51:07.560 --> 01:51:09.439
I hate using the word trigger, but the external

01:51:09.439 --> 01:51:12.180
triggers that are going on, for the most part,

01:51:12.300 --> 01:51:16.439
it's allowed me to observe all of my thoughts

01:51:16.439 --> 01:51:19.920
and not seize onto the negative ones and just

01:51:19.920 --> 01:51:23.300
allow them to float, you know, like so many clouds

01:51:23.300 --> 01:51:27.039
in the sky kind of thing. And it's those tools

01:51:27.039 --> 01:51:30.260
for me that have been absolutely fundamental

01:51:30.260 --> 01:51:37.319
to my recovery. Everyone's going to find their

01:51:37.319 --> 01:51:44.260
own mechanisms, but I think journaling overall

01:51:44.260 --> 01:51:47.500
is probably one of the most helpful things that

01:51:47.500 --> 01:51:51.399
anyone can do. It's amazing how receiving and

01:51:51.399 --> 01:51:54.840
welcoming an empty page is for anything you're

01:51:54.840 --> 01:51:58.859
thinking or feeling at any time, whatever that

01:51:58.859 --> 01:52:01.800
works out to be for you in terms of schedule

01:52:01.800 --> 01:52:04.949
and routine and that sort of thing. It's been

01:52:04.949 --> 01:52:06.670
huge. And then, and I have, you know, I have

01:52:06.670 --> 01:52:08.329
regular check -ins with my therapist as well,

01:52:08.350 --> 01:52:11.649
just to make sure I'm staying level and steady.

01:52:12.989 --> 01:52:15.369
It's amazing that you had that insight about

01:52:15.369 --> 01:52:17.670
observing the thought. I do headspace quite a

01:52:17.670 --> 01:52:20.750
lot in meditation. And the program I'm doing

01:52:20.750 --> 01:52:23.710
at the moment is called Restlessness. And he,

01:52:23.810 --> 01:52:25.710
Andy Podicom literally talks about that. When

01:52:25.710 --> 01:52:27.649
you have these thoughts, just go, oh, that's

01:52:27.649 --> 01:52:30.970
a thought. And just having that moment really.

01:52:31.659 --> 01:52:33.979
shuts down that monkey mind and i have like crazy

01:52:33.979 --> 01:52:36.840
monkey mind monkey on crack but um you observe

01:52:36.840 --> 01:52:39.520
it and then you stop fighting it but you know

01:52:39.520 --> 01:52:41.260
i've talked about this i'll keep this very brief

01:52:41.260 --> 01:52:43.859
so i know you got to go the terrifying thing

01:52:43.859 --> 01:52:46.100
that you hear from so many people with that whole

01:52:46.100 --> 01:52:49.819
suicide ideation is that their reality becomes

01:52:49.819 --> 01:52:52.260
distorted after that perfect storm of all the

01:52:52.260 --> 01:52:55.449
things that we've discussed And they truly believe,

01:52:55.569 --> 01:52:58.510
for example, that they are the reason for their

01:52:58.510 --> 01:53:01.569
family's pain. And if I just remove myself, so

01:53:01.569 --> 01:53:04.550
the ability to just be able to step back and

01:53:04.550 --> 01:53:07.789
see that voice for what it is rather than your

01:53:07.789 --> 01:53:11.890
entire reality. I mean, that little chink there,

01:53:12.149 --> 01:53:14.630
I mean, was for you was, was lifesaving. If you'd

01:53:14.630 --> 01:53:16.909
been totally in it, you could have gone to the

01:53:16.909 --> 01:53:19.250
office and done what it told you to do. Yep.

01:53:19.489 --> 01:53:22.170
Truly, truly. And that's the key, right? Like

01:53:22.170 --> 01:53:25.800
it's, I use the bus bench analogy. So you're

01:53:25.800 --> 01:53:27.640
sitting on the bus bench and you're watching

01:53:27.640 --> 01:53:29.899
cars go by, cars go by, cars go by, and then

01:53:29.899 --> 01:53:33.199
a bus go by and cars go by and cars go by. You

01:53:33.199 --> 01:53:34.859
don't have to get in any of those vehicles. You

01:53:34.859 --> 01:53:36.880
can just sit there and watch them. And that's

01:53:36.880 --> 01:53:39.159
what, that's what, that's what you're thinking

01:53:39.159 --> 01:53:42.239
is, you know, your, your, your mind does exactly

01:53:42.239 --> 01:53:44.779
what it's meant to do. It's a, it's a, it's an

01:53:44.779 --> 01:53:47.920
analyzer. It's a problem solver. It's a solution

01:53:47.920 --> 01:53:51.539
giver, right? So it will always do that. You

01:53:51.539 --> 01:53:54.039
don't have to control it. You're in fact not

01:53:54.039 --> 01:53:57.140
controlling it. It's just doing what it does.

01:53:57.420 --> 01:54:02.439
And not dissimilar to your heart. You don't will

01:54:02.439 --> 01:54:04.340
your heart to pump blood around your body. You

01:54:04.340 --> 01:54:06.960
don't will your lungs to suck in oxygen and expel

01:54:06.960 --> 01:54:10.220
carbon dioxide, right? They just do what they're

01:54:10.220 --> 01:54:12.640
designed to do because the human body is a perfectly

01:54:12.640 --> 01:54:15.720
designed organism. And it has everything available

01:54:15.720 --> 01:54:18.880
to it that you need to survive, including your

01:54:18.880 --> 01:54:23.020
mind, your job. is to recognize that you are

01:54:23.020 --> 01:54:27.439
not the components of your body, just as you

01:54:27.439 --> 01:54:30.020
are not the thoughts of your mind. You are the

01:54:30.020 --> 01:54:35.880
observer of all of it. And the moment I, and

01:54:35.880 --> 01:54:37.960
I remember this moment, I stepped into it so

01:54:37.960 --> 01:54:42.460
clearly, man. The moment I stepped into being

01:54:42.460 --> 01:54:47.159
fully present in every moment, everything changed.

01:54:47.659 --> 01:54:52.109
Absolutely everything changed. And now that's

01:54:52.109 --> 01:54:57.789
kind of where I reside. It's pretty cool. Absolutely.

01:54:58.289 --> 01:55:01.109
Well, for people listening, so I can round off

01:55:01.109 --> 01:55:03.949
and let you go, where can they find you or reach

01:55:03.949 --> 01:55:06.250
out to you? And then what about the 10 -8 podcast?

01:55:07.289 --> 01:55:09.869
Sure. So the Team 10 -8 podcast is available

01:55:09.869 --> 01:55:11.970
on all your platforms, just as this excellent

01:55:11.970 --> 01:55:13.750
show is. And James, thank you so much, man, for

01:55:13.750 --> 01:55:15.609
having me on. It's been a real pleasure and an

01:55:15.609 --> 01:55:17.949
honor to sit and chat with you this last while.

01:55:18.560 --> 01:55:21.300
And I hope we get to do it again. But you can

01:55:21.300 --> 01:55:23.399
check out the podcast. We're online, team108

01:55:23.399 --> 01:55:26.520
.com. We're on all the different platforms. Social

01:55:26.520 --> 01:55:32.899
media is at team108. You can find me on LinkedIn

01:55:32.899 --> 01:55:38.199
at Christian Lane and on Instagram at TheRealChristianLane.