Welcome to episode 124 of Behind the Shield podcast.
As always, my name is James Geering and I am
so excited to bring to you this week Kyle Maynard.
Now the name should ring a bell. I'm sure you've
probably seen him on interviews on television,
on viral videos, on social media, but Kyle is...
one of the epitomes of overcoming obstacles.
And we've had many, many people on this show
that have also done the same thing. But Kyle
was born without any arms or legs kind of below
the joint, the knee and the elbow. And he found
a way to become a football player, found a way
to be a successful wrestler, a successful MMA
athlete, and then ultimately climbed two of the
highest peaks on the planet. So his ability to
reverse engineer a situation that he's told he
can't do and find a way to do it. And then the
mental toughness it took to undertake some of
these ventures that he's been on is A, inspirational,
but B, just educational and resets that bar to
anyone that's listening. It certainly did for
me. So you guys are going to be inspired by this.
You're going to enjoy it. He's an incredibly
humble human being, and this was so much fun
to do. Before we go on, as I always say, please
go on to iTunes, rate the show, give me feedback
on the show, and then share. The best thing you
can do is just help me share this and get these
incredible life stories to everyone on the planet
because these people's tales and their journeys
that they've been through are truly inspirational.
In a world of negativity, these positive stories,
I think, need to be heard. So with that being
said, I introduce to you Kyle Maynard. Enjoy.
Well, Kyle, firstly, I want to thank you so much
for agreeing to come on the podcast. I know you've
done a few and, you know, been on all kinds of
media outlets. But, you know, I know that your
journey and some of the things that I've heard
you talk about with other people is going to
definitely resonate deeply with the people listening
to this as well. So thank you, firstly. Yeah,
thanks, man. Thank you for having me. All right.
Thank you to your community, too, for everything
that they do. Yeah, well, they are pretty amazing.
I mean, I'm enamored by anyone that puts on a
uniform. And it's interesting because I heard
you talk about that with Tim Ferriss about wanting
to serve yourself after 9 -11. And I can see
how frustrating that must have been. Yeah, you
know, I think a lot of it had roots, too, in
the fact that my dad. It was military, you know,
and I grew up with that mindset. I was born at
Walter Reed Army Medical, so the largest hospital
where a lot of amputees come back home and do
their rehabilitation and just had it ingrained
in me since I was a kid. Basically, he was singing
the G -rated Airborne Ranger songs to me. And
that mindset, I think, was really important that
the discipline that he got from the military
and then, you know, in turn was able to help
me with as a kid. Yeah, well, you touched on
Walter Reed. That's a great place to start. So
I know you were born there. I've had some guests
that have been patients there. I've had some
guests that work on the scientific medical side
there. So were you born in Walter Reed just because
your parents were based there at the time? I
was, yeah. So my dad was based at Fort Myer,
met my mom in D .C., and then he got out. uh
right after i was born so we moved from dc to
fort wayne indiana spent the first 10 years of
my life there then georgia after that and i've
now been in california for the last four or five
years okay whereabouts in california in san diego
i'm looking at the ocean as we speak right now
so through a little cloudy haze but it could
be worse yeah i used to live in um huntington
beach so not too far north of you awesome yeah
it's gorgeous there All right. So then if you
don't mind, I just want to delve into your family
unit a little bit. So you had three sisters,
is that right? Yeah, three sisters, all younger,
but they act way more mature. Yeah. And then
so your dad was a soldier. And what did your
mother do again? So she was a teacher for a bit.
And then after I was born and my sisters and
she was a stay at home mom. Okay. That's actually
exactly what my mom did too. All right. So then
if you don't mind, we'll talk about the challenges
you had physically from birth and then we'll
get away from that after that. But just to set
the scene, obviously it's an audio interview.
So your sister's older, you said? all younger
oh yeah i'm sorry i guess i'm not paying attention
so i apologize so so you're the first one then
so so when you were born um or actually let me
rephrase that when you were pregnant were there
any signs of any uh physical issues uh not really
there was one ultrasound where they had trouble
measuring my i think it was like a femur whatever
they used to measure um you know sort of size
and at that point in time and uh yeah so it was
the third trimester where there's a little bit
of questioning with stuff but then the doctor
came in it was like oh no there it is and then
yeah everything was was kind of sound after that
until i was born and give your audience a little
bit more of the visual basically my arms and
at the elbows and legs and at the knees and so
i don't use prosthetics i uh use a wheelchair
to get around longer distances but do a lot of
bear crawling down in all fours and don't really
use my chair inside the house, mostly because
my mom didn't want wheelchair tracks all over
the place growing up. But, you know, just things
are relatively normal. Like I have a stool in
my bathroom and kitchen countertop to jump up
on the counter. But that's about it. Right. And
then what was the name of the amputation? It's
just congenital amputation. And there's really
still no known. cause really like they've attributed
it to so there's different speculations but uh
not really anything for certain right because
i've got a firefighter couple for um friends
of mine that had twin girls and um one of the
little girls was was born but she did have i
think the same condition she's missing one of
her hands so um i'm assuming that's the same
thing yeah there's a there's a number of different
things that can cause cause the amputation or
like sort of uh you know um, uh, a limb that
has some deformity that congenitally like at
birth, it can be, um, a number of different things,
but I, you know, there's, there's still a lot
that we don't know about. It's fascinating. Like
how, how little is, is actually known about it
currently given the state of like how much we've
advanced medically in the last 32 years. But
yeah, absolutely. So, so kind of fast forwarding
a little bit, um, When you were a little bit
older, obviously people listening now can think
that it would go one of two roads, either down
the road of just pity and we're going to have
to coddle this young man the rest of his life.
But your parents chose the other road, which
obviously is the sensible road. So can you explain
to me what the philosophy was with your parents
on how they decided to address this, not as a
disability, but just a challenge physically for
you to work yourself around? Yeah, they approached
it very from an interesting perspective. I think
that the attitude that they chose to take and
one that I've seen has been pretty successful
with other parents of kids with disabilities
is really to try to treat me as normal as possible,
not to make special accommodations or really
try to even have that too many adaptations or
things. They tried to encourage me to do most
things on my own or figure out a way that would...
There was a lot of different random household
objects, like still occasionally I'll use a clothes
hanger to zip my pants up or something to that
effect. Their attitude was if they treated me
normal, then it would become that way, which
is interesting that they kind of intuitively
knew that when it was just a different time.
the internet to be able to go and look up and
relate to other people that were going through
something similar like your you know um your
friends firefighter friends that have kids now
you can go and see you know type in the name
of a condition and see other people with it and
say wow okay like that life could go and work
there was only one guy i think locally that they
could get in touch with that uh you know to try
to schedule a dinner with him and i think he
was a local artist but um i don't know what happened
i think he just didn't show up to the dinner
and that was that was that so uh it just it was
kind of probably for the best that they they
just chose to try to focus on making things as
normal as possible yeah now was there any talk
early on of prosthesis i know that you decided
not to later in life yeah there was a lot of
uh attempts and fittings and all that early on
some of my earliest memories were driving from
Fort Wayne, Indiana, where we lived right after
we moved from D .C. And we'd go over to Chicago
and I would get my prosthetic spit there at the
Shriners Hospital. And, you know, seeing the
Sears Tower and all that was those are some of
my very earliest memories, the smell of the plaster.
So tried it out extensively, but it really never,
never worked too well. I just had a lot more
freedom running around the house without him.
Decided to throw him away. I think around five
years old about a month or so into kindergarten
right after a show -and -tell class and the teacher
You know passing my toy all the kids were around
me and I had my prosthetic arms on and prosthetic
legs and I needed help to stand up if I were
gonna have somebody Helped pick me up and I was
trying to pull the trigger on the gun to to make
the sound I brought a toy machine gun to school
for show -and -tell which probably wouldn't really
fly nowadays. That's not the Then I remember
dropping the gun and being super embarrassed,
wanting to run out of the room, and I just was
stuck there. The teacher passed me the toy again.
I still couldn't do it. There were hooks on the
end of the prosthetic arm, so I was trying to
get to pull the trigger on the gun. My mom was
watching through a window, though, and saw this
whole event unfold. We talked about it the next
day, and I wanted to try to convince her. to
let me come to school without the prosthetics
on the next next day and um so she agreed to
call the teacher and the teacher took the i came
to school for the second half of the day and
the first half the teacher explained to the class
okay kyle had arms and legs yesterday but he's
not going to today so be prepared for that and
uh which is pretty interesting concept for five
-year -olds to to get their head around i think
but It was awesome. At the end of the day, they
told the teacher that they liked me better like
that. That was the last time I wore them. Beautiful.
That kind of segues well to something I wanted
to ask you. We want to talk about bullying, but
I want to focus more on the kindness because
we always see these days the videos of the little
shits picking on someone or whatever, but the
ones that go viral are the acts of compassion.
If you wouldn't mind, just give us an overview
of some of the... the the negativity that you
had in your school but then i'd rather focus
on on the the kindness that your classmates showed
you as you were in some of these younger years
yeah you know it's interesting you say that too
um i always have felt like there's a phenomenon
i didn't come up with this but i don't know who
did actually but where the attention goes the
energy flows and you know if we focus on the
bullying and the negative and all that then we're
going to get more of that And I was pretty fortunate.
I think there was definitely some instances I
remember where kids would make fun of me or whatever.
But my mom was really instrumental, I think,
in being the one to sort of help socialize and
running around the neighborhood and getting other
kids to play street hockey games or whatever
else was going on. So that was... you know just
growing up it was uh i don't know i think that
a lot large part due to the way that she helped
build that community around me then i never really
felt like too out of place until we moved down
to georgia so that move at 10 years old was was
rough definitely like you know because the kids
in indiana they looked at me as like just oh
that's kyle and down in um in georgia it was
totally Totally different. And that's where playing
sports really was the thing that kind of helped
pull me out and saved me from just the transition.
I guess the transitions were always the toughest
part for anybody that's going through a significant
life transition. But I think when you throw in
a physical disability and a kid on top of it,
then it becomes a little bit that much harder.
Yeah, well, I mean, you had obviously significant
challenges. There's no skirting around that when
it came to traditionally playing some of these
sports. So I know football was your first one
that you truly went into. So can you tell me
what was that paradigm shift within you and your
family that made you say, basically, I'm going
to go play football, regardless of whatever cards
have been dealt? Yeah, it was really, I think
a lot of it was the fact that My dad was a football
player, and I wanted to grow up and be like him.
So, you know, I just would dream about that and
be in my room. I think there was just no lack
of imagination, too, from growing up, right?
Like, I would sit there and shoot hoops and dream
about being in the NBA, you know, or, like, watch,
you know, at that point in time, the Dallas Cowboys
were on their crazy run. So, you know, it was
like... a Cowboys fan and watching Troy Aikman
you know throw Hail Marys to Michael Irving and
thinking like oh man that's going to be me someday
and um you know that imagination I think is is
helpful but it's also too you know when you face
the reality of a situation can be you know different
distinct from kind of what we paint that picture
out to be in our heads so um you know playing
football my first tackle was just Literally,
I would take my helmet and smash it into the
guy's shins and bring him down. I played in the
defensive line, nose guard. Right in the middle,
they'd be able to go and plug up the hole. My
coach told me that I had a three -foot gap that
I had to cause havoc inside. I was playing down
in all fours, so the running backs were not looking
at me and the floor. They were looking ahead
at the linebackers and the safeties. When they
got their legs taken out from underneath them,
it became a bit of a surprise. It was kind of
a natural thing at first, given the fact that
I was down low center of gravity, but going up
against bigger kids is obviously a challenge.
As kids got older and bigger, that became a lot
more challenging, which is why wrestling remained
my main sport through middle school and high
school. later on with jiu -jitsu when you know
when you're competing at somebody you know in
your weight class relatively the same size yeah
and then but what was what struck me from uh
the video of you and as you were saying there
you are tackling and um you know people are tripping
over is That's exactly what you want in a takedown.
It was just an unorthodox way of doing it versus
the traditional route that people take. And that
is what's so inspiring about anyone that I've
had on this show that's faced challenges, whether
it's through injury, whether it's through issues
from health or from how they were born, is they
just reinvent the wheel. They reverse engineer
the way people do it and they find their own
way. And I think that's incredible. And it's
a lesson that... Everyone should be able to learn
in this. It's too hard. I can't do it mentality
that we see a lot Yeah, I know I think you know
increasingly It's the the mindset that surrounds
the situations when things don't go well that
I'm kind of most fascinated by You know what
creates the beliefs? around someone who's willing
just to be able to continue to stand back up
time and time again, you know when things don't
go their way and You know, that that mindset
is just it fascinates me. And it's not so simple
and obvious. I think what what creates all of
that, you know, some people seem to do it better
than others. But I mean, there's a lot of factors,
I think, that go into conditioning that. And
by and large, it probably is a lot of like, you
know, there's nature versus nurture. You know,
we kind of are who we are in large part, even
by the time we're probably four or five years
old. There's a lot of plasticity there to be
able to go and change your mind and be able to
realize that something bad happens, but yet there's
a hidden advantage here. That's really what it
comes down to is the fact that within every great
disadvantage, I do think that there are inherent
advantages in there. It's just choosing to go
and look. And it's not even just purely from
an overtly optimistic perspective. It's kind
of just looking at things from a highly pragmatic
point of view. Just to start with the assumption
that there is some major advantage here. To make
a long story short, when I started wrestling,
I went 0 -35. Zero wins. It took a long time
to get that first win. By the time I was a senior
in high school. I was beating multiple state
champions and ended up being a match away from
placing at the senior nationals tournament. So
it was, at that point, a different discussion.
It was basically when I started, it was borderline
child abuse that my mom and dad were making me
do. And by the time I was a senior in high school,
then it was that I was nearly unfair advantage
over everybody else. But it's not so much. Even
just in the physical, although that is absolutely
there, but I think it's in a lot of different
situations. If you take a business example, for
instance, or something, the stock market crashes
and you're a financial advisor and you've got
all your clients that are running away and everybody's
upset. Well, then there's the ones that are able
to stay calm and be able to... realize orient
themselves towards the advantage they can understand
the fact that there's more money in motion now
than has ever been in human history so if they
are positioned appropriately and prepared to
be able to go and handle it they can go out and
prospect and build their business such that it'll
come back three four or five times stronger when
the market comes back so that you know it just
yeah it just it fascinates me you know and i
mean that your community i know is it's full
of those kind of unsung heroes that have had
to go and face that reality of really intense
adverse situations i mean sometimes even you
know like where your life is at risk or your
friends um you know teammates and you know it's
a the stakes are totally different then but i
think the same principle applies yeah yeah do
you the the challenge that they have a lot in
in our community is the toll that the profession
takes on you especially the you know the hours
work the shifts being up all night the physical
toll the mental toll um and it's it's great to
hear you talk about that about you know just
just working out how to make it happen because
there is the the danger of becoming complacent
and losing that drive and and saying oh well
it can't be fixed and people like yourself you
know are obviously regardless of in any physicality
at all but just your mindset is if i hit a wall
well let me work at how i can climb that wall
or knock the wall down or you know dig under
the wall whatever needs to be done yeah but you
know it up exactly but the opportunity is the
other side of that that wall and i need to circumnavigate
it somehow yeah and that's that you know really
at the end of the day too it's like there's you
know That's a really exciting aspect of life.
It sucks sometimes when we're going through it.
I don't want to pretend like it doesn't, but
being able to deal with those situations and
excel at that, I think there has to be a certain
level of being excited for when those things
come about. Even if only for the opportunity
to be able to grow. problem solve and prove to
ourselves. I think that as human beings, we are
kind of built to do this kind of stuff. To be
able to survive as long as we have, to be able
to build the civilizations that we have, it's
taken an enormous effort of being able to problem
solve and constantly come up with different alternative
solutions to be able to work something out. Things
aren't always so obvious at first. And maybe
there are things absolutely that are outside
of our control. And sometimes with that alpha
mentality, you so desperately want to be able
to control stuff and control certain outcomes.
But it's not going to always happen. And at that
point, a big aspect of this whole principle,
I think, is learning to... you know stop and
accept the circumstances equanimity sort of be
you know at peace with whatever is happening
around us tell the truth to ourselves about whatever
is occurring so that way we have a sort of place
in the map to be able to start from well you
did speaking of the the wrestling um anyone listening
that lost 30 you know seven times in a row would
be challenged as far as their drive to carry
on. My little boy does jiu -jitsu, and he's done
it for about five years now. And he's built like
me, built like a toothpick, so he gets barreled
over a lot. But I see that same grit and determination
in him, and he sees that loss as a learning opportunity
and is never knocked down, even though he's disappointed.
So what was your self -talk in, let's say, the
37th fight, getting ready to go into your 38th?
that made you, you know, not stop, not say, well,
you know, I'm never going to get this, but to
carry on and be determined that you're going
to get that first win? Well, you know, that's
a good question. Actually, the big difference
there, I mean, this is, you know, mind you, I
was 11 years old and like I had yet to learn
about being able to, you know, kind of control
my mind around a lot of these things. Dad helped
me a tremendous amount with being able to come
up with the techniques and the moves. My wrestling
coach, Coach Ramos, would stay after practice.
Basically, they would wrestle around on his knees
to try to understand and tuck his arms into his
sleeves to figure out different moves I could
go and use. At first, for the first several matches,
almost the first year the the main move that
i had was to wing a half nelson so i'd basically
have to have somebody take me down get behind
me put in a half nelson pinning combination and
then i would clamp down and try to roll the guy
so you know kind of already at like a pretty
disadvantaged position if the main weapon that
i have is to wait for somebody to put in a pinning
combination on me and then i can execute but
it uh You know, I think the shift was, though,
my dad, he kind of played a trick on me. And
he he said, you know, look, I had not won a single
match in sixth grade, did not really want to
come back and do it again. And he wanted to at
least encourage me to try. And he said, I didn't
win a single match my first year in wrestling
either. He said very few people ever win a match
their first year. But everybody who comes back
their second season. You're going to beat somebody
because you're going to beat somebody who it's
their first season. And then, you know, you'll
you'll be good. And he kind of embedded this
idea in my head. And so consequently, you know,
there's a lot of evidence that suggests that
like when we have like a deeply embedded belief,
we're going to go and look and scan solely for
evidence to confirm that belief. Right. It's
confirmation bias and it can work. in our favor
too in those instances when you believe that
you're going to be successful in something and
then you look for all the reasons why you're
going to succeed and i saw this kid he's kind
of scrawny and i'm like oh man he's you know
his first year wrestler i heard out you know
so then i'm just triggered all of these things
in my head like he's inexperienced You know,
he's grinding, he's warming up the wrong way
and all this stuff. I don't even remember exactly
what he was doing, but we came out and shook
hands and I remember his handshake and I'm thinking,
oh man, he's got a weak handshake. I'm like,
this kid's mine. And so I just kind of mauled
this first kid that I beat and almost beat him
by a tech fall. And, you know, at that point,
it was just a very different kind of experience
from, you know, the first. you know, 35 or so,
it was just like wild to, um, have had that experience
and then realize, okay, like I just destroyed
this kid and like, you know what, I guess it
just completely altered that, that belief that
I was capable. Then all of a sudden that became
a lot better. And, uh, I believe by the time
I was in eighth grade was almost undefeated going
into the state tournament. So. All right. I heard
you talking about visualization. I think it was
regarding your MMA fights. But was that kind
of like the unofficial introduction to that?
Did you did you kind of build on that, that self
-talk and then start visualizing yourself beating
these people? A lot of this stuff was, I think,
at that point in time, it was outside of my conscious
control. I didn't have anyone that had taught
me that aspect of it. Right. So. I don't remember
it being something that we talked about a whole
lot until maybe closer to my senior year. It's
wild how, as human beings, we spend all day,
every day, making internal hallucinations. Visual,
auditory, kinesthetic, even to some degree, gustatory
or neural factory. All of these senses that we
have will make those inner representations for
them. And they kind of run our life in a lot
of ways. But yet they're barely outside of our
conscious awareness. And so doing stuff like...
I mean, it really is. It's something that I talk
to a lot of my friends about this stuff. And
so many people are like, yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever.
There's zero chance you're going to get me to
sit down and meditate and visualize something.
And I'm like, look, if you understood what this
could go and do for you in your life, then you
would have a different attitude around it. And
it's just sort of the know thyself, being able
to have those deep visualizations and understand
what is the framework that makes up your psyche.
I just don't. understand when people don't have
the curiosity to know what makes them them other
than you know underlying fear complacency you
know i just like i i think there's no limit to
wanting to go and understand what makes us us
to me at least and yeah that was there's kind
of the beginning but there was still a tremendous
amount of fear and anxiety around all this stuff
to work towards overcoming You mentioned that
initially it was hard to get you in there because
they saw you at disadvantage. In the end, they
said it was unfair that you had an advantage.
It's funny how that perspective shifts when you
start winning. Yeah, nobody complained when I
was losing. When I started beating their kids,
they started to whine a little bit. It's just
funny. It's a funny thought, but that's anything,
right? There's so many different things where
it's like that example throughout history where
nobody really cares. It's like, oh, yeah, and
then you start succeeding and doing something.
People are like, oh, wait, whoa, hey, what's
going on there? Yeah, exactly. Now, it's modern
day, like 2018, with the adaptive world, which
I really want to get into a little bit later
as well. are is there an arena now where they're
matching um i don't want to use the word disability
but but adaptive athletes based on on their absence
of limbs in mma and jiu -jitsu where you're able
to kind of grapple with someone that has the
same physicality as yourself on a very small
scale that's kind of uh becoming that you know
it's really it's a it's a tricky thing though
because um the world of quote -unquote disabilities
you know it's It's so vast. And, you know, everybody
kind of has something, right? I mean, like there's
different things that like might not resemble
like a physical disability. But I mean, even,
you know, like you go inward and everyone's disabled
to some degree, right? So the, you know. It's
really tough, though, to get a comparison because,
you know, it's almost very rarely it's ever going
to be like an apples -to -apples situation. I
have a great deal of respect for the Paralympics
and the Paralympian athletes and, you know, kind
of everything that's occurring inside of that
community. However, you know, you look at some
of the categories and, you know, there's... a
lot of different classifications and groupings
for things and you know it's it's it's challenging
to go and put people in in those groupings so
when you have so many different groupings and
you know you're gonna have that many different
champions at each you know event you know it's
it's it just i see I see both sides of it. I
think there's a lot of awesome progress and it's
encouraged a lot of other people to compete that
maybe wouldn't have otherwise. And that aspect
of it, I absolutely love. But it is definitely
difficult to get down the classifications and
all that stuff. And it just can kind of get watered
down, I think, if we do too much of that. everybody
gets a trophy kind of mentality if that makes
sense yeah no it does and it's funny because
i've talked about this on the podcast before
there's to me there's that one element where
absolutely right there's got to be that competition
element and you've got to be able to work towards
it but then there's the other side where it's
funny most of the people that you hear spouting
that rhetoric are sitting at a Lazy Boy, watching
football on TV, doing nothing with their life.
So to me, the kids that show up in the tournament
are doing way more than most of the people that
are throwing that around in the first place.
So I think showing up trophy, not trophy, but
the self -pride of showing up, regardless of
whether you were on the podium or not, is a badge
of honor in itself. Yeah. You know, in the podium
too, I remember, so I'll give you like this example
as a thought. I remember In sixth and seventh
grade, before I'd even won a match, I'd received
several silver and bronze medals. My mom had
hung them on my door. I don't think I've ever
really talked about this publicly. It's interesting.
But I always had a little bit of disdain for
those medals. They would actually motivate me
to go and work harder because I felt like they
were just completely unearned. The only reason
I got those medals is because there weren't enough
kids in my weight class. It wasn't because I
had won. It was just purely because there weren't
enough kids to feel the weight class. So then
at that point, I got a medal. And I always thought
that that was just a cheap way to get a medal.
And the medals that I had earned later on were
ones that I prized a lot more. Yeah, exactly.
And I think that's the thing. The medal is a
reflection of you becoming the best version of
you. And that ends up being a gold. I think that's
incredible. But if the best version of you achieves,
the best thing you know in your heart says that's
the peak of your performance, you've done everything
you can. I guess you're a bronze. Then you need
to be fucking proud of that bronze. Yeah, totally.
I agree. All right. Well, I want to talk about
training as well, because I know we'll get into
where you are as far as your CrossFit journey
and your lifting journey as well, as well as
obviously the climbing. But at what age did your
dad start? training you, you know, weights and
the fitness side as well as the wrestling. Started
a lot of that when I was a kid. You know, I was
11, 12 years old. And then just gradually, you
know, I just started with just a cuff wrapped
around my arm and a rope attached to free weights.
And that's kind of how it all began. And then
just gradually kept kind of progressing and broke
my ropes and got chains, broke those chains,
got bigger ones. competed in the GNC's World's
Strongest Team when I was 17, almost 18, and
then did sort of a modified bench press, butterfly
press, about 120 pounds in each arm, so 240 pounds
for 23 reps. And then, yeah, but started basically
with two and a half pound, you know, little tiny
for five pound at most, plates on each side,
you know, to go and kind of get my form down
before. my dad would let me move up. So there's
a lot of time spent lying on the bench, you know,
doing that. Um, and then ultimately one of my
favorite things when I got into the CrossFit
was, you know, it was just realizing the deficiencies
that I had in all of these different areas that,
um, you know, were not obvious to when the guys
who want to like go, go to the gym and only work
on stuff that they like working on, you know,
but then all of a sudden you get, you know, different
type of fitness that kind of picks apart areas
where you're not so strong. And, um, you know,
if I could do that modified bench press for three
or four times when I could front squat, then
that's, that's not really a balanced athlete.
So it just, you know, learning that and focusing
on kind of bringing up the deficiencies a bit,
you know, they're never going to be our strengths,
but yeah. we can be less deficient, I think is,
you know, it was just completely changed everything.
And just the, the, the type of training to that,
that CrossFit had inspired. Like I, I do, I think
forever I will always do something sort of like
that, you know, the Metcon style. I don't really
follow like a strict. CrossFit methodology or
anything like that anymore. I just learned from
a lot of different people. In fact, Jeff Nichols,
who I know is on your podcast, just gave me some
phenomenal training advice the last time that
we worked out together a couple weeks ago. It's
always a journey. I am forever grateful to Greg
Glassman, the CrossFit founder, for what he brought
to the world. No matter what, what anybody says,
like I opened a CrossFit box in 2008, you know,
and I remember the gym world prior to that. We
were the 10th gym in Atlanta and, you know, 10th
CrossFit box. And it was like, it was a different
world. It was a completely different space. It
was just people were not doing the same things
that they're doing now. And no matter what, there's
love and hate on both sides, but no one can deny
that it has forever changed the landscape of
functional fitness in the world. Yeah, I couldn't
agree more. I actually got into it right around
that same time when you opened the gym. And I
think I've talked about this on the show before,
but it was funny. I remember doing handstand
push -ups and muscle -ups in the YMCA and all
the high school kids with their cut -off shirts
were all laughing at me. And then about three
or four years later, when CrossFit was cool...
the same kids are coming over like, Hey bro,
can you show me how to do this? And I'm in my
mind and think, Oh, it's not so fucking funny
now, is it? So yeah, before it was cool, but
it has an extent, you know, whatever your thing,
whether it's, um, you know, powerlifting or Olympic
lifting or strong man or gymnastics, it's inspired
all these, even the combatives that I see on
there now, it's definitely spawned that. And
if people kind of spin off and then go do. focus
on on those those uh other areas and don't technically
do crossfit anymore if that was something that
that germinated that interest and then sent it
elsewhere then again they've done their job if
they question their nutrition they've done their
job totally yeah i mean and that's where it's
it's so cool to see too and then even you know
um you know our mutual buddy joey darolk you
know like see you see him like in a totally different
like type of uh a fitness that's that's just
so creative but it's it's fascinating to me how
so many things have kind of like you know just
just spawned not necessarily all purely as a
consequence across it i don't make that like
claim by any means but i think just like in general
like the world of fitness is just erupted in
all these different directions and i mean there's
so many different things now too that like i
just generally have no idea what they do, but
they're like super successful. Like I've not
been in an orange theory box, but I mean, those
things are freaking blown up all over the place.
You know, there's, there's a, you know, fit wall
here in San Diego. Um, yeah, there's like a million
different bootcamp options and Pilates and yoga.
And it just definitely, there's, there's no shortage
of stuff to get into in that journey. You know?
And I think it's cool to try a lot of different
stuff, you know, and be able to, try stuff that
it makes us uncomfortable yoga is definitely
something that i want to incorporate more of
into my training regimen i was actually like
literally today thinking uh this morning having
breakfast and i was like yeah i need to sort
of like stretch to get out of bed this morning
i'm like okay this is it's it's definitely time
to start incorporating a little bit more you
know maintenance in uh my routine yeah and how
old are you now 32. Okay. So you're still young,
but you're starting to approach that where, where
things are getting sore for a couple extra days
and things are a little tight. Yeah. Don't take
it for granted. Only 20 year olds listening,
but that's the, as they say, the youth is wasted
on the young. Yeah, very true. I'm trying to
stay, you know, keeping up with them. But yeah,
it definitely takes a little more work. I can't
just roll in with a hangover and then still,
you know, crush a wad these days. So we talked
about Rolk and I had him on the show, an amazing,
amazing human. I'm actually going to California
in October and I'm going to train with him when
I'm over there. How did you meet him initially?
Man, that's a really good question. I actually.
I can't remember who the first connection came
through. It might have been Hinner Gracie. Somehow.
It's almost kind of like I've just always known
him. I don't know. He's one of those people that
you meet that's just like this infectious spirit,
that aloha spirit is just alive inside of him.
I actually will have to think about that more.
caught me off guard with that one well why are
you thinking about that so one of the things
obviously he does a lot of floor work and he's
known for bear crawling ridiculous distances
himself um so what i'm obviously with the crawling
work that he does um was he able to put you through
through things that you'd never kind of done
or felt before because i saw your face at the
end of his workout which looked very familiar
oh yeah man he worked me for sure it was wild
and I think, like anything, when I bear crawl,
then I kind of have my own way of doing it. His
way of mixing it up was totally different than
anything that I had done. He's just a freaking
animal, too. Bear crawl, 10K. distances and i
mean all kinds of crazy stuff so he's an absolute
freak of nature but it's just in you know inspiring
being around him and yeah he absolutely worked
me right well well speaking of crawling then
this i guess that's a good transition to your
introduction to climbing mountains so as a precursor
to that i actually was very very lucky to climbed
the World Trade Center a few months ago with
Rob Jones, who lost both legs from an IED explosion.
And he used the same kind of prosthesis that
I see you use sometimes, took off his legs and
put on the pads on his, I think it's just above
knee amputation for him. And then bear crawled
103 floors up. So what was it that got you to
think about, you know, a vertical, especially
such a long, long vertical challenge like that?
I, you know, I think it was a lot to do with
just adventure ADD, you know, and MMA fight and
like, you know, it was like kind of looking for
something else. I'm like, ah, you know, maybe
mountaineering. I ended up, I did a CrossFit
competition and the first workout that we did
was a thousand meter row in a rowing machine.
And then you had to run up stone mountain and,
you know, knew it probably wasn't going to fare
too well in that. I think, um, you know, the,
like, average time was maybe 25 minutes for that
event I think for me it was an hour and 47 or
something like that so it was a 900 foot bear
crawl up this little granite rock in Atlanta
Georgia and and then it just got it turned into
that night I came home and told my friend that
I wanted to go and climb Kilimanjaro and she
said you're effing crazy like you know you're
gonna die like she's just I'm perplexed by the
fact that I was just completely destroyed by
doing so at Mountain. I'm like already, you know,
that crazy sort of imagination. I'm like, all
right, let's, you know, 10x this or 20x it. And
then a couple of years later, we're just standing
on top of the summit. It was a massive process,
you know. It's been a long time going into all
of that that it took to go and get there. But
it was, that whole journey was amazing. And it
really, I think, was... was special, too, in
the fact that, you know, as a kid, I, you know,
just grew up, you know, a lot of my time was
spent in a wheelchair. And so because of that,
my friends would go and run off into the woods
and I couldn't go and follow them. And so I wanted
to be able to. And that was just proof of the
fact that we could, you know, by putting our
minds to it. and kind of dedicating some time
and effort, energy towards it, then an amazing
group of people came together and helped realize
that vision. And that was everything. The team
that we had to make it happen was absolutely
phenomenal. And then a couple years later, after
saying, I'm like, I'm probably good on the mountains
for a while, and then all of a sudden I find
myself on an even higher, colder, longer trip
on Mount Aconcagua, which was... Breathtakingly
beautiful. And also. Like breathtaking in every
other regard too. Including incredibly. Probably
the closest I ever came to. Physical death. Not
even kidding. Like there was a night where I
thought. That like there was a decent chance.
When I went to sleep that night. That I wouldn't
wake up in the morning. Because of just like
sheer exhaustion. And my resting heart rate was
not dropping below. Like 130, 135. So. It just.
The mountains are just symbolic of so much, but
when you actually encounter them, the very literal
feeling of it is pretty powerful. You said you
climbed a mountain, and then you talked about
another mountain. We missed out the details here.
How many hours a day were you climbing, and how
many days did it take from the base to the summit?
So Kilimanjaro was 10 days up, I think two and
a half down. It was, I'd say an average day was
five or six hours, maybe seven or eight, some
longer, one longer day where we'd have 11 or
so hours, 11, almost 12 to go up the Western
breach, which is sort of the steepest. western
facing side it was the most direct path and it
was not our original plan to take that route
but we did and um cut off about five days of
the total trip time because it was i knew i'd
rather just have one hellish day to go up this
western slope than five slow death days of you
know marching around to the east side of the
mountain um my arms and my feet were just swelling
inside of the gear and just the mileage that
we put on was just incredibly taxing but it was
it was so beautiful too and um Aconcagua was
a you know with that with that climate was different
we had a team of just four Americans including
myself and two Argentinian guides so six of us
for 17 days and uh you know almost You know,
I was about one and a half times, I think, the
amount of time to go up it. And it just took
everything. So Aconcagua is 19 ,340 feet. Aconcagua
is 22 ,800. And the highest peak in the world
outside of the Himalaya. And on the summit day,
there was a body of an American climber that
they just brought down. He'd fallen. that had
a stroke fell hit his head and um you know they
just brought his body down like right as we were
passing through and I like I felt like I was
close knocking on death's door which is definitely
not the place to have something you know go wrong
medically it was just it was just physically
took everything I had inside of me to get it
going and that summit day too just had gear breaking
and you know going through the ice wall and like
all this crazy stuff that just it's kind of wild
to like sit back and reflect on it from time
to time but um that that summit was was pretty
special and we didn't really even tell anybody
that we're necessarily going out there that go
and do it i kind of have mixed feelings about
you know the super social world that we live
in sometimes i like to just go out and just just
do stuff and not try to you know, overtly publicize
it. So, and, um, and I was, it was absolutely
awesome. The stars that night that came out to
you after coming down, it was, didn't make it
back to the camp that I ended up sleeping at
until about one 30 that morning. But it was,
that was the toughest physical day in my life,
the summit day in Aconcagua, but it was also
probably the best too. yeah that must have been
pretty challenging if you're you know you're
questioning your climb and you're telling yourself
what's the worst that's going to happen you know
i'm not going to die and then they bring a dead
climber by you and you're like okay maybe i might
die that's that's got to change your mentality
a little bit yeah for sure i mean it's and it's
also it's you know it's it's a bit different
than um you know did like then uh like a first
responder too right like if you have somebody
who's going into a burning building to go and
rescue someone, then there's like a different
tolerance, I think, for that risk to go and to
climb a mountain. It's not as clear as to, you
know, that like the purpose for it. And then
I come down and get to go and share that story.
And then immediately. Even though, like I said,
we didn't really intend to go out and do this
for the press coverage or whatever, but then
that happens, and then all of a sudden people
are saying around the world that the story stopped
them from suicide. So in a way, it's not nearly
a perfect comparable kind of thing. They do have
just a tremendous amount of respect for them.
you know police fire uh military you know whoever's
going to put on the uniform put themselves in
harm's way but i guess it was kind of a different
way of doing that you know it didn't really know
or could connect to the amount of hope that it
would it would give people for whatever that
was that they were going through and that was
pretty cool no it's very very cool i heard you
mention that that's what we talked about at the
beginning about you know having that desire to
to serve when you saw the towers fall but then
just like you said i mean this this was the path
that you were supposed to take and and the impact
that you've had is you know is paramount to probably
anything that you would have been able to done
um you know with a single pair of boots on your
feet as a soldier as a firefighter as a police
officer and i had the same kind of experience
myself i was never destined to to be a soldier
i don't think um And I felt bad about that in
one respect. And when I found the fire service,
that was my calling. And then now with this podcast
as well, it's another way to affect change. And
you don't always have to have your hands on people
doing that exact profession your entire life
to affect change. And you see that through Tim
Ferriss and Joe Rogan and some of these other
people that are... putting these messages out
and circumnavigating some of the barriers that
we see traditionally. And that's absolutely what
I've seen with you and some of your peers is
regardless of what shape or form it takes, positivity,
behavior breeds behavior. And that positivity
just grows. And if you can get past the negative
barriers, like we talked about social media earlier,
and use that for positive reasons, then like
you said, you can be climbing a mountain in South
America you know, Shanghai. Totally. Yeah. I
mean, there's, there's no question. I think that
the, the technology has allowed us to be able
to spread this message so much further and faster
and, you know, any message that, that wants to
be spread. I mean, there's, you know, I mean,
even, uh, you know, ISIS or groups like that
will use video to recruit people in social media.
You know, it's, um, It's whatever message we
want to go and spread. And ultimately, I think
a lot of that messaging comes down to, you know,
it's a reflection of us. And, yeah, I think it's
definitely, you know, a balance that I've had
to have in conversations I've had at length.
You know, one of my best friends. I know you
know of, we talked about him earlier, Mitch Aguiar,
who's got a big social media presence. He spends
a lot of time and effort and energy in his audience,
even way beyond what people would necessarily
realize, messaging people. To me, I'm like, man,
that's awesome, but it's not my nature. I would
rather just be in the world and figure out. I
love receiving messages from people, don't get
me wrong. But at the same time, I'm like, there's
sort of like a blessing and a curse to come with
any type of audience. I do feel fortunate to
be where I'm at and also not really sure right
now where the future is going to lead, but in
a very exciting kind of way. I think I'm ready
for... I've never really wanted to be associated
with any one thing. It was like wrestler, speaker,
author, all this stuff, jiu -jitsu, CrossFit,
mountaineering. To me, that's all well and good,
but there's a million other different things
I want to go and do with the time that I have.
That's a big part of life is just go out and
learn stuff and fail at it at first. Yeah, you
said before, getting comfortable, being uncomfortable
is the secret of life, in my opinion. It's a
big one for sure. So I wanted to talk about one
more element of your climb before we move on.
And then we'll talk about Mitch and Stu and Jeff
and the project that you guys have got coming
up very soon. But you climbed with a very unique
individual. I'm probably going to butcher his
name now. Eric Weinmayer. Yeah. So please tell
us. Pretty good. Yeah. Tell us. OK, good. Thank
you. So, yeah, if you wouldn't mind explaining
to the audience, you know, who Eric is, what
his physical challenges are and just briefly
what he's done so far. Yeah. So, Eric, he was
born with his vision normal and intact. I think
it was around 15 years old that he lost it. And
it's kind of also around the time I believe that
he lost his mother. And so it's just a lot of.
you know, challenge, you know, and just a difficulty
that he had to be able to endure there, the pain
that he transmuted into then, you know, really
having a desire to become a climber and kind
of pioneered a lot of the, you know, people with
disabilities climbing around the world. So he
climbed the seven summits, which is the high
peak on each continent. And, you know, and I'm
doing so completed summiting Mount Everest, including
Aconcagua and Kilimanjaro, but in particular
Everest, you know, it's a huge gap. Aconcagua
is the second highest of the seven summits, but
it's, you know, 22 ,800 feet versus Everest is
29 ,035 feet. So it's a massive, massive. difference
there you know it's definitely it's not a linear
progression either too as you get higher up in
altitude it just like every little bit sucks
the higher you go so eric is just a phenomenal
you know just force of nature and he just recently
completed kayaking the i believe the length of
the lower half of the colorado river through
the grand canyon blind So it's just wild, the
things that he's got to go and do and take on
in his life. And even more notably, I think,
is on founding his nonprofit, No Barriers, which
helps kids and adults with disabilities around
the world get to experience outdoors and a number
of other things. So Eric introduced me to my
mountain guide, Kevin Chirilla, who Kevin and
his partner, Kristen, were instrumental to kind
of help me. get started in the in the climbing
world and kevin's been with me on um all the
major climbs that i've done amazing yeah you
see you know you talk about people you know oh
that that's that's admirable but then when you
put yourself in their place like for you for
example perfect example is if i asked the athletes
i coach in crossfit to do uh you know 50 meter
bear crawl they'd be dying at the end of it And
you are doing seven hours. And so you have to
kind of put yourself in the mind. The same with
Eric. I mean, I can barely find myself from my
bedroom door with the lights off. And to imagine
doing that with no vision at all, it's just incredible.
And again, it goes back to what we were talking
about earlier. Cross ice ladders and all kinds
of crazies, ropes. yeah oxygen bottles and tanks
it just is absolutely wild what he achieved there
yeah and but both of you you know it's here's
the here's the the deviation from the norm and
both of you are like all right well then we'll
take this road let's travel then and we'll still
make it work and that to me i mean it's inspiring
because so many excuses are made and and i'm
sure you you probably have this yourself i i
I genuinely, you know, compassionately am saddened
by people who waste the gift that is the human
body because of the fear of getting outside their
comfort zone, the fear of, you know, something
being hard, whether it's exercise or nutrition,
whatever, and owning that gift. Yeah, I totally
I feel you. It's just like it's even like. front
of mind right now um you know this morning i
went to the dmv and then took a uber ride back
home and i had a very very sweet driver you know
who though she was just you know call it what
she is she was pretty overweight and was you
know not able to get out of her car to help me
you know put the wheelchair in which is fine
you know was able to find somebody to help throw
the chair in the trunk and um she um was in a
car accident, as she said, got rear -ended. And
in the 90s, she said that she can't walk for
more than two or three minutes at a time without
pain. And so then consequently, had to live seemingly
a pretty sedentary lifestyle. And I can empathize
with that and the pain there. I also, too, just
always wonder and question. It's like... You
know, did she do everything that she could have
to get that functionality back? Or was it that
she just accepted, you know, some fate that the
doctor told her that, oh, you'll never be able
to do this again or ever go to that again? Just,
you know, how many stories do we hear about people
that have a doctor go and tell them that? And
then, you know, they are able to make some type
of miraculous turnaround or recovery, right?
And just because they decide to. and put in that
effort. Is that effort without pain? Absolutely
not. It's an inextricable part of it. The suffering
that exists there. I think it invariably results
in people that become stronger and more adapted.
Maybe not in the way in which they used to be,
but even just mentally, physically, spiritually
in just different ways. Those alternative ways
we talked about at the beginning. I always wonder
how many people I guess went the other way. How
many people heard somebody say that was impossible
and they believed them? And then because of that,
they had a very different experience of this
life. And who knows why we're here, what we're
supposed to do and all of that. I don't pretend
to have any of that figured out. I think not
knowing actually empowers me more. faith in the
unknown of something you know extraordinary but
like i also too i don't know and then that it
just it has me question and wonder what that
is instead of just assuming and i guess the the
best i can come up with is to try your fucking
hardest you know and if if you want to go and
do something then find a way and do it yeah yeah
love that and i think one of the best representations
i've seen of fuck it i'm gonna take control of
my life and i don't know if you ever saw this
or not but there was uh i forget he was a paratrooper
back in the day um hurt his back become you know
almost unable to walk uh you know use crutches
and was in a wheelchair between the two became
very overweight and he actually found diamond
dallas pages yoga who's you know a retired oh
yeah i remember that guy yoga yeah yeah do his
podcast before too he's an awesome guy oh really
well he had a specific guy and it went viral
but this guy filmed himself almost like time
lapse but over a few weeks at a time from not
being able to walk and just knocking over his
bookshelf and all this stuff when he was falling
out of these poses To the very end, he's lost
all the weight and he's running through the park.
And the doctors told him he'd never be able to
walk again. And it was a giant fuck you to what
he'd been told. But that's exactly what it takes.
We know now that diabetes is reversible. Heart
disease is reversible. I'm pretty sure we're
going to discover that cancer is definitely avoidable.
you know, with nutrition and exercise with a
lot of them. Obviously, some of the pediatric
ones, maybe not so much, but we are just told
the wrong things nutritionally. I mean, I was
raised being told to, you know, carb up, eat
your pasta, eat your bread. And now we know that's
horrible advice. So it's that ability to question.
And I think that, you know, even... It'd be delicious
advice, but not... Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean,
pasta tastes good, you know, but you can have
that if you've just, you know, done all the other
active stuff first and have your pasta. But,
you know, to question things, even politically.
You know, we, we, we're a country that we just,
you know, we look to the blue tie or the red
tie, like, Oh, lead us, lead us, you know, and
it's not, you lead yourself and then you control
your own country. Preach brother. I'm getting
on my soapbox now. I need to stop. It's great.
I, you know, I think I try to, at this point
to like resist a lot of like different ideologies
and, and try to like, just get back to like,
what is my own truth? You know? And it's amazing.
You know, when we've talked about sort of. visualization
or meditation like you know just challenge your
audience to go and sit and spend you know 10
minutes today you know just quiet down take a
couple deep breaths and close your eyes and have
a conversation with yourself about yourself and
your life and like where you could do something
different you know and like what um how different
your life could look if you actually did that
like what what would that look like whatever
that thing is that comes up and pops up that
we kind of know is there, but then rarely we
do take the time to actually stop and do it.
It's amazing, I think, that that kind of continual
process of that, peeling away at those layers
of excess that we don't need, I think it can
result in a kind of transformative experience
of this life. Yeah, now do you have a specific
meditation practice you do or is it more just
being quiet with your thoughts? There's not a
specific one I would say it's a lot a lot of
different stuff I get inspired by different things
that I come across and I just like to throw in
and try you know You know interestingly Carl
Jung right now is kind of a guy I've been reading
a lot about and He was a psychotherapist in the
kind of pre - and post -World War II in Austria
and kind of revolutionized a lot of what became
modern -day psychotherapy. But he just had kind
of some intense... periods of time of deep introspection
and visualization and this questioning and beginning
to unpack and uncover his psyche and would paint
a lot of the stuff and all kinds of different
things like that. I don't think it has to be
anything in particular. Again, it's not any one
thing. If somebody finds something that works
for them and it's a specific program, cool. For
me, it's kind of the same thing that's always
been like it's just uh if it it's like the you
know bruce lee philosophy right if it works use
it if not throw it away yeah i quote that all
the time i love it absorb what is useful yep
all right well speaking of psychology i want
to hit one more thing before we we transition
to talking about the uh the event you got coming
up and then some closing questions um but i heard
you mention i thought this is very interesting
because we see that in in our community as well
The feeling you had after you had finished your
summit and that event was done. I'm not even
going to paint the picture. What was it like
after you had achieved that huge, huge challenge
that you gave yourself the following weeks and
months after that event? It was a weird time,
especially with Akin Kagawa. I'm not going to
lie. After each adventure that I'd done, there
was always a period of time afterwards of like
a lull of kind of like, oh, okay, now what? And
then Aconcagua kind of coming that close to,
as close as I felt to death. It was really just,
it did something different in me and changed
me. You know, there was a girl that I was dating
before and a little bit after and she was like,
you know, there's just something that was just
different kind of about me afterwards. I kind
of tend to agree. I think a lot of it was for
the better. I think there was almost like a kind
of, you know, before I was becoming a lot more
nihilistic about the state of the world. you
know just sort of like um what's the point who
am i to do anything different you know like all
that kind of stuff that creeps in right we just
go and look at just the amount of bullshit in
the world and we're like i don't even want to
try and then somehow after that mountain you
know it was it was just like a that prayer that
I'd made and the fourth night of 17 where I was
literally like shaking and shivering in my tent
my heart rate was going crazy that night like
I said and that was the night that I didn't know
like what was gonna happen if I was gonna wake
up and see the morning and when I did I was just
like super grateful to continue to exist and
I just prayed that night I was like look if you
know if anyone anything is hearing this then
can help me get through this, then I will promise
to use my life to do something with it to help
better other people or something, make this world
a better place. It was a very profound kind of
experience. So then after that, it was just not
any big trip, but after that, especially coming
back home. kind of going back in a normal routine
was, you know, it was different. And it's, it's
just, it's been a very wild journey since that
point. Um, which, you know, there's a whole other
podcast discussion and down the road to go into
all of that stuff, but it's been a very, let's
say unconventional last couple of years. Absolutely
amazing. Well, it's it's interesting the way
you described it, because it sounds like it basically
everything was stripped down to, like you said,
waking up and being grateful for the very breath
and your lungs again and all the other bullshit
was removed. Totally. It's like just. There's
something. I think that happens. I think it happens
a lot to people, you know, when you see it with
the attempted suicides happens, you know, with
people, maybe, you know, especially I'm sure.
in in this community that you have you know it's
it's like people that come up with you know a
close brush with death it changes you somehow
and you know i think maybe not all the time but
a lot of the time you know people are left with
an intense gratitude just to continue to exist
and um You know, it's kind of, I guess, like
not too dissimilar from the, you know, the reports
that you hear with people that jump off the San
Francisco, you know, the Golden Gate Bridge and
survive. Right. And they continually routinely
say as soon as they jump, they knew that was
the wrong choice. Yeah, exactly. I'm trying to
get one of them. Kevin Hines is the guy that
is actually touring at the moment. And he's he's
exactly that. He's the guy that was depressed
and suicidal and. When he recovered, when he
survived that jump, had this epiphany and has
been dedicating his life, promoting awareness
for mental health and depression and suicide
ever since. So that purpose was given to him.
I think that's what I see in a lot of people
that have come out the other side, whether it's
addiction or depression, is once you wake up
with gratitude and with the desire to help other
people, I think that's such a nurturing thing
for your soul that empowers you. makes you have
that lust for life again totally yeah i mean
and there's just so many different ways in which
that can occur but you know i think um sometimes
we just need that spark you know that catalyst
to to realize like okay like what is the you
know what's the first step that i need to go
and take and i think that that's kind of going
back to you know asking your folks to go and
sit down and reflect for a couple minutes on
some of this stuff like you know and then these
these just thoughts in their life and like have
a conversation with yourself like you know and
in a calm reflective state like and just see
like what is the state of your life and how you
know what what do you want it to be what steps
need to happen to go and make that you know like
make that occur it's not usually rocket science
and something about, you know, just taking those
action steps towards it, it changes us. So, you
know, there's, there's a lot more to unpack,
but I think just the, I think it's, you know,
Tecumseh, he was the Iroquois chief, and he said,
you know, if you, awake in the morning without
gratitude then that fault is on you effectively
so like you said i think just having that place
to start like how you know fortunate we are to
exist and um you know just what do we need to
go and do with that existence to make it an extraordinary
one yeah absolutely i think the hardest thing
for people really is to find that quiet find
that space because you know you wake up you got
your tv on at home and then you get in your car
and the radio is on and you know you go have
lunch at the the restaurant there's freaking
tvs everywhere and there's just so much white
noise that we have and we're working totally
in control to shut that down but it's a challenge
to to turn off your phone and and just find somewhere
where you're not going to be disturbed um you
know walk through some woods whatever it is and
and make the time to be alone with your thoughts
whether it's you know sitting in the lotus position
or just walking by the ocean but somewhere where
you're not being bombarded with external stimuli
no man i totally totally agree it's you know
i think it becomes even that much more important
as the world continues to you know get noisier
it it's even that much more important to go go
inward and and to spend that time it's kind of
You know, it's if you haven't worked out in a
really long time, then it's not not the easiest
thing in the world to get started and go to the
gym. You know, if you're addicted to whatever
you are. I mean, for me lately, I've been like
on a no caffeine kick, you know, so I'm like,
cut it out. But, you know, for the last couple
of weeks that. craving for the the coffee comfort
is is there but i know that like i have to do
it so it's i think it's just it's it's the exact
same thing but for some reason especially i notice
you know among males kind of you know like 18
to you know 45 like in that window for some reason
like sitting down and and having that reflective
time is like a million times harder than anything
else. So I, I just, it fascinates me when I hear
people say like, Oh, there's, there's no way
I can do that. I'm like, really? You cannot sit
still for at least 10 minutes to start. It just
blows my mind. Yeah. I call, I call complete
bullshit. Absolutely. What do you think, you
know, back not so long ago, Every time you walk
somewhere, every time you rode a horse somewhere,
rode a car, whatever it was, you were alone with
your thoughts the whole time. I mean, in my childhood,
I'm 44, so pre -Walkman, there was nothing there.
And even then, I didn't use it very often because
the batteries would last about 27 minutes. So
you had that, and that's the thing that we have
to re -find. And I'm quite inspired to see what's
going to happen in towns over the next couple
of decades because now... were able to shop online
which i think really was detrimental to to humans
the other moles and all that consumerism you
get your crap online now now those public spaces
are starting to be used for bars and coffee shops
and these communal spaces where we're interacting
with each other even if it's not quiet time we're
at least having intelligent conversation again
yeah i hope so man i think that that like we
are social creatures you know and i think that
that's a big aspect that you know i mentioned
that um, you know, Tecumseh and like, I've been
learning a lot about the American Indian culture
and, you know, the, the social aspects of, of
tribal life and, you know, like are fascinating.
And I think that like we live in a very disconnected,
separate world. And it's almost like the more
people that you pack inside of a city, then the
more disconnected and separate people feel, you
know, it's, it's not. the same thing as you know
like I love what you're saying though too of
like the sort of resurgence of you know kind
of communal meeting places and I it I just wish
there is there's more of like people that would
be interested in like just getting together and
like talking and thinking about like stuff together
like for not like a direct purpose but who knows
maybe it'll have to be Something I haven't come
across, so I would be there, I feel like, with
regularity if it existed in any form. But just
in general, I was thinking about that again today
with Uber back from the DMV and how lucky am
I that I can just call an Uber, go to the DMV,
get my license renewed. I don't have to bug my
sister to go and drop me off before she's...
on our way to work or whatever it's just we live
in just a different world and what what it's
going to look like in the future i'm just super
fascinated by a little bit terrified but mostly
fascinated yeah yeah again like what we said
before it can it can be used by so many good
things i think it's up to us to to vote with
our dollar you know if if all the the shitty
elements of technology is rebuked by us all the
crappy you know factory farming food and and
you know all those elements and we vote by growing
our own food again and filling communal spaces
with intelligent conversation instead of mindlessly
protesting, then I think we can change it. Be
the change you wish to see in the world. I love
it, man. So true. Well, speaking of change, we're
going to transition to something you've got coming
up. We're going to put this out immediately because
I really want to help you guys with this. But
Stu Smith has been on the show. Jeff Nichols
has been on the show. And you're working with
them and your friend Mitch on a project coming
up. So if you wouldn't mind telling us when it
is and what it is. Yeah, so it is, I'll get the
exact dates. It's going to be, I believe. the
27th and 28th of august so right around the corner
and i think there might be a couple spots left
but um basically um the crew that you mentioned
among others were coming together to create really
the the first time um that i know of i mean that
i've ever been a part of anything like this that
um will just help people prepare for um, you
know, different, um, selection courses in, uh,
whether it's, you know, fire Academy, um, you
know, fire law enforcement, um, you know, uh,
military, you know, people, there's a, you know,
several people I think coming in that are, um,
trying to go to buds and, you know, a number
of other things right now too. So I think, um,
it's going to be a pretty intimate event, but
just a massive amount of knowledge of people.
aren't aware of who those folks are that you
mentioned, then they should definitely Google
them. I know most of them through Mitch, who
I mentioned has become one of my closest friends
and like a brother to me and just is just a fascinating
character to be around. And a big element of
what we're going to do is like a Bud style beat
down for an aspect of it. So people get a little
taste of it. But something that he and I have
been talking about a lot lately is this concept
of. conscious suffering you know and and like
sometimes we have to choose to suffer to you
know in suffering later on and whether it's in
ourselves or the world right like uh but there's
just going to be so many aspects of it of just
the knowledge and preparation And I think my
piece of it's going to be sharing some of my
story and also just something like the mindset
elements, you know, for people that are preparing
for these various selection courses. So if you
miss this one, hopefully we're going to, you
know, try to fine tune it and make it even better
for the next go around. But no guarantees. So
if you hear this and want to make a last minute
trip to Virginia Beach, then you can check out.
Go to. smashing frog .com um with no g so smashing
frog .com and uh i believe there's a link on
there for it'll say seminar and um you can see
the um i think it's the resilience optimization
seminar Maybe something else. I think Jeff Nichols
is the one that kind of came up with the title.
It was pretty clever. He's just an absolute wealth
of knowledge. Just blew my mind with a lot of
just what he's learned. One of the challenges
I have with fitness is just being able to vary
the movements that I go and do. A lot of them
end up being kind of the same thing. totally
just put things in a different perspective with
regards to attaching from different vests and
lever points and all that. I'm excited to see
what everybody brings to the table with this.
I've not met Stu yet, but excited to meet him
too. I think it could be the beginning of something
pretty cool. Hopefully there's this... this goes
well and that's something that we can continue
to make better on as we go on in the future absolutely
well it sounds great not only for people trying
to get into those professions but like you said
resiliency so people that are in those maybe
they've been in there for a few years and they
feel themselves you know deep within their comfort
zone again and want to push the envelope a bit
and i tell you i've met stew um at the conference
a couple of times i've interviewed him uh twice
technically and jeff was one of the people that
really educated me on when to do the training
as a first responder if we've come off a shift
is not the time to hit a red line workout and
he really opened my mind as to the programming
when you choose to do what kind of intensity
so a huge amount of knowledge there and obviously
Mitch as well so anyone listening if you want
the links for that you can also go to this website
which will be for this podcast jamesgearing .com
and I'll put the hyperlinks on there too Yeah,
man, it'll be awesome. I think it's a great point,
too. I'm just excited to attend and, you know,
continue to learn from these minds myself. So
I think there's whether people come to the seminar
or not, you know, there's there's no shortage
of opportunities to sharpen the saw, so to speak.
Right. So it's like. go and do that life will
be better yeah exactly all right well um i always
close with some some questions but i just realized
i haven't asked you about your book before i
ask about other people's books so um if you just
tell us what your book is called and where people
can find that and also the the the point in your
life that you wrote it yeah sure the the book
is ancient uh relative to to the book world it's
um I wrote it when I was 19, so I'm 32 now. So
I actually, I'm sorry, I wrote it when I was
18 and released it when I was 19. And I wrote
it in my freshman dorm room at the University
of Georgia. But it was just kind of life up to
that point. And, you know, it's, I think, a really
good representation of a lot of just kind of
where I was and kind of everything that was built
into it up to that point. And so the book is
No Excuses. And that helped kind of launch a
lot of other things, including the speaking in
the gym and, you know, getting to travel around
the world for all these reckless adventures.
But, yeah, I would say there's, you know. there's
definitely need for another one in light of kind
of like just recent happenings and you know part
of it is that just the the life perspective that
you gain i think you know in your 20s and 30s
is a lot different than you know what you have
growing up as a as a teenager when i wrote it
was just a wrestler so now things will be a little
different yeah and have you started writing that
yet or is it still in the the fetal stage fairly
fetal but uh i would say it's uh like first first
on its way to second trimester i'm looking for
the forward for the bloody show so awesome all
right so then um other people's books is there
a book that you love to recommend to people that
you've read can be about this or something completely
different oh man How much time you got? Plenty.
I'm obsessive about this stuff. I've read so
much lately. Trying to think of a great place
to start for people that haven't read this would
be Power of Myth by Joseph Campbell. I highly
recommend. I would say probably... You know,
there's a lot of... There's... Let's shout this
out. I think there's a YouTube channel, too,
for those that are not big readers but are more
inclined to YouTube. There's a YouTube channel
that I just came across. It's called Academy
of Ideas and breaks down a tremendous amount
of philosophers and different thinkers throughout
history that just provide a totally different
perspective on things. Highly recommend that.
Been a big fan of... you know, seeing what the
intellectual dark web guys have been putting
out lately, the, uh, Joe Rogan and Jordan Peterson,
um, Sam Harris, those guys, you know, been reading
a lot of their stuff and listen to it. You know,
it's, and, uh, yeah, for, I would say for, um,
for fiction one of the greatest fiction books
that i've learned a lot about through like leadership
and awareness was um was dune actually the whole
dune series of a big sci -fi fan so that was
pretty pretty awesome one brilliant well what
about a movie and or a documentary Favorite of
all time, I would say, would have to be Braveheart.
That actually saved my life effectively. My ancestors,
my dad's side, were Scottish. And so seeing that,
my dad would go and tell me, those are our, kind
of where we came from, whatever. And it just
blew my mind and inspired me. ancestors of mine
are those type of warriors then I could have
that same spirit inside of me too and find a
way to cultivate that so it's like it's always
worth a watch I'd say for documentary one that's
and this also too is another great book recommendation
too but Sebastian Younger he he wrote a book
called Tribe that blew my mind Another awesome
book that I didn't think of too is Empire of
the Summer Moon. It tells the history of the
Comanche Indian tribes. They were the dominant
military force in North America for over 100
years. Learned a ton from those. Tribe breaks
down. A lot of the issues that we've sort of
been talking about lately today in terms of what
we see in society and all that and kind of approaches
it from a perspective of this is the ancient
wisdom of our ancestors and kind of what could
be missing in our lives today. And he also did
a documentary to Sebastian Junger. It's called
The Rise of ISIS. And that is like bone chilling.
But also, I mean, it approaches it from, I would
say, a fairly pragmatic, just journalist, you
know, journalistic perspective. And it's just
wild to see, you know, anybody that... that argues
that, you know, good versus evil, a lot of it
is a very relative thing, right? But you go and
watch that and you see what Assad and a lot of
the horrors and atrocities that the Syrian people
were struck with. It's just absolutely gut -wrenching.
So it gives a different perspective, too. um
you know and just isis and it's like reason for
occurring so definitely recommend checking those
out yeah well i actually had sebastian on twice
now i read tribe um oh wow okay yeah yeah we
tried long time ago but it pertains so closely
i'm sure some of your military friends have said
this when you were in that group that tribe whether
it's you know a fire station a crew in a fire
station or a military unit and then you leave
that unit that is definitely to me one of the
underlying causes of some of the you know the
mental health issues that we see because while
they're you know literally fighting for their
lives they're they're happy they're cohesive
because they're with their brothers and sisters
yeah But then when they're taken from that, whether
it's injury or promotion or whatever it is, and
you're removed from that unit, you see it over
and over and over again where that loss of that
tribe has really detrimental effects to the people.
It's so true. I think it's, again, coming back
to society at large, it's like that is a huge
missing, even if people don't realize that it
is. to an extent that i think we can barely even
fathom and how much better life is when we sort
of are a part of something and belong to something
you know deeply it's it just it changes us so
yeah that's really cool sebastian's been a big
hero of mine for for a while Yeah, he was an
amazing guy. And the first time we talked more
about the book, second time it was about some
of his documentaries. And The Rise of ISIS was
the most recent one that he did. And it underlines
as well how the people of Syria, like you said,
are not the terrorists. People of Iraq are not
the terrorists, people of Afghanistan. And that
these shitbags are embedded amongst people like
you and me that are just trying to live their
life. And, you know, they're being terrorized.
And then sadly, they're the victims of the opposing
force as well sometimes. so true man and it's
like the you know they're they're just people
you know that are trying to trying to do their
best to get by and take care of their families
and then like you said you know you get some
tyrannical dictator that comes through that's
just a complete just scourge to humanity that
you know causes that much like suffering just
to you know for the greed and power and uh it's
just it's it's so so wild and i think you know,
there's a great danger to turning a blind eye
to that, the existence of that type of evil in
the world. And it doesn't mean by any stretch
of the imagination that, um, like, like you said,
that everyone there is, is like guilty of, of
some crime. Like, no, it's like kind of frankly,
just shitty lockup where like they existed when,
like in, when this person came to power. And
yet like, You know, it's just, you know, even
with ISIS too, like that area of the world just
beat down for so long. And, you know, and just
finally it's like, okay, we're fed up with that.
We're going to go and do something. And then
things just go and swing in the other direction
just so rapidly. Yeah, it's crazy. I think that
a bigger answer to all of this stuff is increased
connection to people, to the world, to the planet.
To have people give a shit more than they do
is the only way. I think that like any of this
stuff changes because the tendency that we have
towards like, uh, you know, more like meaningless
nihilistic existence. I mean, it's like, and
there's so many factors that perpetuate that,
but like it is, I think the greatest danger that,
that we're facing in the world is just, you know,
these tyrants that come up and can emerge. Especially
inside of a world that faces more and more nihilism
and self -interest. And just people that are
indifferent to that suffering. I can't be aware
of it and not care. And I don't, by any stretch
of the imagination, pretend to have the answers
associated with that. I do know that like if
we don't do something to get people to feel kind
of more connected to each other, to the world,
to, you know, I mean, like literally you go to
a place like Manhattan and you get, you know,
eight to 10 million people on a tiny freaking,
you know, two mile long Island. And like, just
it just. But yet there's like this massive separation
between people that exist. And I just, I don't,
I don't feel good about the, the future of that.
And it's, it's not, you know, like with, with
kind of there's, there's so many of these like
bigger, the bigger problems I think that are
on the horizon too. And the swinging and polarities
with things. We have to have something that.
brings us back together something that binds
us to the point where we can see other people
as human beings again you know outside of just
like our closed our closed group and circle i
don't know there's there's a lot there that like
i've been thinking through a lot but like clearly
i need to work on the articulation of it but
i mean i can tell you you're in the same vein
like it's you know you're doing what you're doing
with your community to try to go and inspire
and awaken people to you know live a better life
and do something i think that's pretty freaking
admirable well this i mean the same with what
you're doing is i mean mine's not close to the
the things that you've done but um it is it's
it's getting shutting off that white noise you
know we're fed like you said the polar opposites
in so much of our mainstream media and and it's
so easy you just press the fucking power button
and that tv turns off you know now you're left
with your own thoughts again and you walk outside
your front door and if everyone does that and
helps the people around them you are going to
change the country and i've made this analogy
before we got our pyramid upside down here we
all look to that one you know one figurehead
in in the white house to change our country and
we just need to figure out that we do and we
look around we help each other and help our community
and choose that kindness and stop arguing about
football teams or political affiliations you
know and and we'll fix it it's as simple as that
and i think there is a paradigm shift about to
happen um but it takes people that are that see
that to keep pushing and not give up and not
be discouraged because they're chipping away
at that that middle group and the middle group
are the ones that you know, you, you sway, you're
going to get that 10 % that just a lunatic scene.
It's not even worth your effort, but right. Yeah.
You know, the middle, the middle ones are the
ones that are just looking for some direction.
And I don't mean that in a patronizing way, but
they're the ones that believe the doctor that
you can't reverse your diabetes or whatever it
is. And so it takes people just to gently lead
and say, Hey, you know, this is, we can do this.
You can. You can become whatever you want in
life. You can, you know, play football and become
a wrestler, even though you have, you know, half
your arms and legs as you know, as you as you're
walking the walk. So it's why I love getting
people like you on the show to show everyone
to stop making excuses, roll up your sleeves
and just start, you know, making this country
great as the hats like to say, but you've actually
got to put the fucking work in to make it happen.
Right. So true. One of my. favorite quotes and
this may be a good place to close on like i i'm
a huge fan of um ralph waddle emerson if anybody's
um read any of emerson you would also to another
book recommendation would be uh mind on fire
i like absolutely blew my mind it was a biography
of emerson but just goes into a lot of um you
know his like personal diaries and writings and
I can kind of just see a little bit more of what
was going on in his psyche. But on that note,
Emerson said, your actions speak so loudly, I
can hardly hear what you say. Amen to that. Amen
to that. It's lip service otherwise. Yep. All
right. Well, I got one more quick question for
you before we let you go, if that's okay. Is
there a person that you recommend to come on
this show? to talk to the first responders of
the world. Man, you already had so many of my
friends on here. I've got a few, some of my best
friends in the SEAL teams, but Mitch, you brought
up a couple times on here. I think he would be
an awesome guest for you. He's got his own very
unique style. is just like brutal honesty and
authenticity is something i've grown to love
a lot so i think he would be fantastic and um
uh jeff gum and uh mario romero two other really
close friends um some of my best friends that
um jeff have known now um probably for five or
so four or five years um not uh partner with
him in a swimwear company, too, that we've launched,
Loudmouth Patriot. Mario is getting ready, too.
He's basically a former SEAL and now training
to be the fourth Navy SEAL astronaut. We were
just hanging with Chris Connolly, the second
SEAL astronaut, as he's prepping for, and that
would be another. Amazing person, I'm sure, too,
for you to get a hold of. I don't know if he's
doing interviews too much right now, but Chris
Connolly was absolutely phenomenal. Second SEAL
astronaut and kind of the head of a lot of the,
I think, his upcoming mission in a year and a
half. He's a mission specialist. He'll be up
in the space station for six months. So one of
the top astronauts at NASA now. all -around amazing
human being get to the status house for a couple
nights and went and did this amazing tour through
nasa last a couple weeks ago so awesome mario's
in that training program um i don't know i'm
really where he was aspiring to be endeavoring
to be he actually was like a had a 1 .7 gpa in
high school i think and then ended up um you
know going taking about 20 remedial math classes
and ended up with a degree and um uh in theoretical
mathematics from columbia so just absolute proof
that like he did it just solely based on the
fact that like he wanted to break the pattern
of this uh you know that no one in his family
was good at math um and he did they smashed it
you know it's um i just i feel very very lucky
very fortunate to be surrounded by so many just
amazing human beings you know that have kind
of done their service but continue to go and
serve in their own way now so yeah brilliant
happy to provide any introductions man and um
you know look forward to definitely go back and
listen to some of your episodes too some of my
buddies here that you already interviewed and
those episodes with sebastian too i think it
would be dream to meet him someday yeah absolutely
well i can definitely help help connect you guys
too um all right so the very last thing then
where can people find you if they if they want
to reach out to you if they want to uh you know
invite you to speak with them um what's the best
place yeah it's uh for My invitations to speak,
I would say the best way to do it would be my
childhood best friend, Joey, goes and manages
my speaking business and can email joey at kyle
-maynard .com or you can just go to my website,
just kylemaynard .com and send an email to us.
do the social media thing even though i talked
talked trash about it i'm on there periodically
instagram and facebook and all that like you
know maybe some more stuff in youtube or who
knows what else in the future so i'm around and
if you're in uh san diego and pb come say what's
up excellent all right well i want to thank you
so much for taking the time we've been talking
for over an hour and a half now so it's been
a fantastic conversation and um you know, yes,
physically, obviously you've got the challenges,
the inspiration, but that aside, just, just what
I focus more on is, is your, you know, your,
uh, vision of, of, of life. Like you said about
gratitude, about getting back to where we're,
we're talking to each other and communicating
and fixing the world that way. Cause I couldn't
agree more. With that and that insight through
the journey you've come, I hope that this will
inspire other people to reach the same conclusion,
whatever their personal journey is. Awesome,
man. Thank you, brother. So it's fun to talk
about some different stuff, too, you know, and
I think it's a aspect of whatever happens next.
I have no idea what entirely that's going to
be, but, you know, it's going to be interesting
to see, to say the least. So thank you.