WEBVTT

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.620
This episode is sponsored by Transcend, a veteran

00:00:02.620 --> 00:00:04.960
-owned and operated performance optimization

00:00:04.960 --> 00:00:08.039
company that I introduced recently as a sponsor

00:00:08.039 --> 00:00:10.820
on this show. Well, since then I have actually

00:00:10.820 --> 00:00:13.080
been using my products and I have had incredible

00:00:13.080 --> 00:00:15.939
success. There was initial blood work that was

00:00:15.939 --> 00:00:19.039
extremely detailed and based on that they offered

00:00:19.039 --> 00:00:23.519
supplementation. So I began taking DHEA. BPC

00:00:23.519 --> 00:00:26.399
-157 for inflammation based on the fact that

00:00:26.399 --> 00:00:28.300
I've been a stuntman, a martial artist and a

00:00:28.300 --> 00:00:30.579
firefighter my whole life. Lots of aches and

00:00:30.579 --> 00:00:33.880
pains. Dihexa to help cognition after multiple

00:00:33.880 --> 00:00:36.899
punches to the head and shift work and peptides.

00:00:37.079 --> 00:00:39.520
Four months later they did a detailed blood work

00:00:39.520 --> 00:00:42.259
again and I was actually able to taper off two

00:00:42.259 --> 00:00:44.479
of the peptides because my body had responded

00:00:44.479 --> 00:00:47.079
so well to just one of them that it was optimized

00:00:47.079 --> 00:00:50.530
at that point. So I cannot speak highly enough

00:00:50.530 --> 00:00:53.530
of the immense range of supplementation that

00:00:53.530 --> 00:00:55.789
they offer, whether it's male health, female

00:00:55.789 --> 00:00:58.530
health, peptides to boost your own testosterone,

00:00:58.630 --> 00:01:00.829
which I would argue is needed by a lot of the

00:01:00.829 --> 00:01:03.570
fire service, or whether it's exogenous testosterone

00:01:03.570 --> 00:01:06.750
needed, especially after TBIs or advanced age.

00:01:07.239 --> 00:01:09.480
Now, as I mentioned before, the other side of

00:01:09.480 --> 00:01:11.980
this company is an altruistic arm called the

00:01:11.980 --> 00:01:14.840
Transcend Foundation, which is putting veterans

00:01:14.840 --> 00:01:17.640
and first responders through some of their protocols

00:01:17.640 --> 00:01:21.340
free of charge. Now, Transcend are also offering

00:01:21.340 --> 00:01:24.019
you, the audience, 10 % off their protocols.

00:01:24.239 --> 00:01:27.120
And you can find that on jamesgearing .com under

00:01:27.120 --> 00:01:29.840
the products tab. And if you want to hear more

00:01:29.840 --> 00:01:32.560
about Transcend and their story, listen to episode

00:01:32.560 --> 00:01:37.390
808 with the founder, Ernie Colling. or go to

00:01:37.390 --> 00:01:42.109
transcendcompany .com. This episode is sponsored

00:01:42.109 --> 00:01:45.030
by Team Builder, yet another company that's doing

00:01:45.030 --> 00:01:47.170
great things for the first responder community.

00:01:47.810 --> 00:01:49.950
As a strength and conditioning coach myself,

00:01:50.069 --> 00:01:53.590
who also trains tactical athletes, dissemination

00:01:53.590 --> 00:01:55.930
of wellness information is one of the biggest

00:01:55.930 --> 00:01:58.750
challenges. Now, TeamBuildr is the premier

00:01:58.750 --> 00:02:01.129
strength and conditioning software for tactical

00:02:01.129 --> 00:02:03.689
athletes. And there are several features that

00:02:03.689 --> 00:02:07.390
really impress me. Firstly, there is a full exercise

00:02:07.390 --> 00:02:10.030
library, so you, the personal trainer, does not

00:02:10.030 --> 00:02:12.129
have to create that within your own department.

00:02:13.129 --> 00:02:15.969
Secondly, you can send out programming, but also

00:02:15.969 --> 00:02:19.250
individualize, which I love. So you blanket program

00:02:19.250 --> 00:02:22.509
for everyone. Now you can tweak based on someone's

00:02:22.509 --> 00:02:25.069
injury, someone's need to maybe drop some body

00:02:25.069 --> 00:02:27.830
composition, rather than having to write a program

00:02:27.830 --> 00:02:31.139
for every single person on their own. TeamBuildr

00:02:31.139 --> 00:02:33.500
also allows you to build custom questionnaires

00:02:33.500 --> 00:02:36.800
to collate health and wellness data. It integrates

00:02:36.800 --> 00:02:39.360
with wearables. And I think one of the most important

00:02:39.360 --> 00:02:43.180
things is obviously it tracks. To me, it's imperative

00:02:43.180 --> 00:02:46.639
that we as a profession start tracking our people

00:02:46.639 --> 00:02:50.539
from day one and then over the full span of their

00:02:50.539 --> 00:02:53.759
career, therefore catching potential wellness

00:02:53.759 --> 00:02:57.300
issues and injuries before they happen. Now,

00:02:57.300 --> 00:02:59.520
if you want to try TeamBuildr they are offering

00:02:59.520 --> 00:03:01.860
you, the audience of the Behind the Shield podcast,

00:03:02.280 --> 00:03:06.479
a free 14 -day trial to experience all of the

00:03:06.479 --> 00:03:09.000
features. And if you want to take a deeper dive

00:03:09.000 --> 00:03:13.520
into Teambuildr, listen to episode 1032 with

00:03:13.520 --> 00:03:17.539
Melissa Mercado or go to teambuilder .com. And

00:03:17.539 --> 00:03:19.080
I'll spell that to you because it's not as you

00:03:19.080 --> 00:03:25.900
think, T -E -A -M -B -U -I -L -D -R .com. Welcome

00:03:25.900 --> 00:03:27.599
to the Behind the Shield podcast. As always,

00:03:27.639 --> 00:03:29.439
my name is James Gearing and this week I have

00:03:29.439 --> 00:03:32.580
an incredibly interesting guest for you. Chris

00:03:32.580 --> 00:03:36.039
Cameron is a helicopter pilot that works with

00:03:36.039 --> 00:03:39.759
law enforcement. He is an adventurer, a rescue

00:03:39.759 --> 00:03:43.819
swimmer, and he leads dives with sharks. So I

00:03:43.819 --> 00:03:46.080
would argue one of the most interesting people

00:03:46.080 --> 00:03:49.139
I have had to interview as far as the broad skill

00:03:49.139 --> 00:03:52.659
set of the individual. So in this powerful conversation,

00:03:52.900 --> 00:03:55.759
we discuss a host of topics from some of the

00:03:55.759 --> 00:03:58.500
career saves through the helicopter pilot's view,

00:03:58.659 --> 00:04:02.240
the incredibly unique experience the divers get

00:04:02.240 --> 00:04:05.759
when they go on his shark expeditions, mental

00:04:05.759 --> 00:04:09.180
health, and so much more. Now, before we get

00:04:09.180 --> 00:04:11.439
to this incredible conversation, as I say every

00:04:11.439 --> 00:04:14.360
week, please just take a moment, go to whichever

00:04:14.360 --> 00:04:17.279
app you listen to this on, subscribe to the show,

00:04:17.500 --> 00:04:21.430
leave feedback, and leave a rating. Every single

00:04:21.430 --> 00:04:24.670
five -star rating truly does elevate this podcast,

00:04:24.970 --> 00:04:27.250
therefore making it easier for others to find.

00:04:27.430 --> 00:04:31.949
And this is a free library of almost 1 ,100 episodes

00:04:31.949 --> 00:04:35.649
now. So all I ask in return is that you help

00:04:35.649 --> 00:04:38.329
share these incredible men and women's stories

00:04:38.329 --> 00:04:42.290
so I can get them to every single person on planet

00:04:42.290 --> 00:04:45.209
Earth who needs to hear them. So with that being

00:04:45.209 --> 00:04:50.459
said, I introduce to you Chris Cameron. Enjoy.

00:05:09.480 --> 00:05:12.000
Well, Chris, I want to start by saying two things.

00:05:12.100 --> 00:05:15.120
Firstly, thank you to Drew Nicoletti, our mutual

00:05:15.120 --> 00:05:17.600
friend for making the connection. And secondly,

00:05:17.680 --> 00:05:19.480
I want to welcome you on to the Behind the Shield

00:05:19.480 --> 00:05:21.720
podcast today. Thank you very much, man. I'm

00:05:21.720 --> 00:05:24.139
privileged to be here. So where on planet Earth

00:05:24.139 --> 00:05:27.139
are we finding you this afternoon? West Palm

00:05:27.139 --> 00:05:30.600
Beach, Florida at the moment. Yeah, right here

00:05:30.600 --> 00:05:32.839
at the airport, actually. So I've got the rest

00:05:32.839 --> 00:05:36.199
of the crew handling calls. So I stepped away

00:05:36.199 --> 00:05:38.339
for a second just to touch base because this

00:05:38.339 --> 00:05:40.459
was definitely worth the time. I think it's an

00:05:40.459 --> 00:05:44.439
incredible opportunity just to talk about what...

00:05:44.810 --> 00:05:47.389
what we face as, as first responders and just

00:05:47.389 --> 00:05:49.310
life outside of that too, which is something

00:05:49.310 --> 00:05:51.550
I'm, I'm super passionate about. Absolutely.

00:05:51.610 --> 00:05:53.490
I'm actually going to be down your way. My wife

00:05:53.490 --> 00:05:56.529
graduates from Nova Southeastern as a doctor

00:05:56.529 --> 00:05:59.629
of optometry next week. I could throw a rock.

00:05:59.750 --> 00:06:02.430
Yeah. Yep. Awesome. Congratulations. Yeah, no,

00:06:02.529 --> 00:06:04.930
thank you. For four years, she was actually away

00:06:04.930 --> 00:06:06.870
from home or three and a half technically. So,

00:06:06.870 --> 00:06:09.189
uh, yeah, it's been, uh, it's been the test of

00:06:09.189 --> 00:06:11.050
our marriage in a good way because it survived

00:06:11.050 --> 00:06:13.579
just fine, but it was a lot. All right. Well,

00:06:13.639 --> 00:06:15.300
I'd love to start at the very beginning of your

00:06:15.300 --> 00:06:17.759
timeline. So tell me where you were born and

00:06:17.759 --> 00:06:19.339
tell me a little bit about your family dynamic,

00:06:19.579 --> 00:06:22.220
what your parents did, how many siblings. Yeah.

00:06:22.379 --> 00:06:25.800
So I'm a third generation Floridian, which I

00:06:25.800 --> 00:06:27.759
guess is rare enough in itself these days. Usually

00:06:27.759 --> 00:06:30.360
everybody's a transplant, but families from here,

00:06:30.480 --> 00:06:33.699
generations before me, my family was all cattle

00:06:33.699 --> 00:06:35.480
ranchers in the middle of the state. And then

00:06:35.480 --> 00:06:37.259
they kind of trickled down to South Florida.

00:06:38.000 --> 00:06:40.259
And that's where I guess I step into the picture.

00:06:41.529 --> 00:06:47.870
My dad, five -person family, two older sisters.

00:06:47.930 --> 00:06:50.689
So I was the youngest boy that they would probably

00:06:50.689 --> 00:06:53.889
argue got born with a silver spoon in his mouth.

00:06:54.550 --> 00:07:00.949
But that's what siblings do, right? My dad, also

00:07:00.949 --> 00:07:04.769
a Florida native. Went to the University of Florida,

00:07:04.850 --> 00:07:07.470
played football there, then was drafted by the

00:07:07.470 --> 00:07:09.930
Cincinnati Bengals. Played 11 seasons in the

00:07:09.930 --> 00:07:11.689
NFL for the Cincinnati Bengals. And then after

00:07:11.689 --> 00:07:15.769
that, came back to South Florida and started

00:07:15.769 --> 00:07:17.829
practicing law. Did some agent work right out

00:07:17.829 --> 00:07:20.329
of the NFL and did some stuff with some players

00:07:20.329 --> 00:07:22.689
and then moved on and opened up his own practice.

00:07:22.829 --> 00:07:24.189
And then that's where I kind of stepped into

00:07:24.189 --> 00:07:26.709
the picture. I was the last one to be born and

00:07:26.709 --> 00:07:31.379
closing off. full family dynamic so family's

00:07:31.379 --> 00:07:33.980
been here ever since and this is where i grew

00:07:33.980 --> 00:07:37.279
up my backyard south florida is an incredible

00:07:37.279 --> 00:07:39.959
place because it's you can do just about anything

00:07:39.959 --> 00:07:43.000
here if you go if i go 15 minutes that way i'm

00:07:43.000 --> 00:07:45.339
in the everglades i'm in horse country if i go

00:07:45.339 --> 00:07:48.279
15 minutes that way i'm in beautiful gulf stream

00:07:48.279 --> 00:07:51.220
blue waters so my time was just grown up split

00:07:51.220 --> 00:07:54.180
between being out in the wild well i guess being

00:07:54.180 --> 00:07:55.800
out in the wild no matter what direction it was

00:07:55.800 --> 00:07:58.089
but being in the Everglades or being out on the

00:07:58.089 --> 00:08:01.449
ocean. And grew up here outdoors my whole life.

00:08:01.790 --> 00:08:05.889
And then left for four years, went to Mississippi

00:08:05.889 --> 00:08:08.629
State University, played football there. And

00:08:08.629 --> 00:08:11.490
then after that, got right into my professional

00:08:11.490 --> 00:08:15.009
flying career as soon as college was over and

00:08:15.009 --> 00:08:18.189
came back to South Florida. So pretty straightforward.

00:08:18.829 --> 00:08:21.709
Not a lot of twists and turns down the path.

00:08:21.889 --> 00:08:23.449
I was one of those kids. I just knew what I wanted

00:08:23.449 --> 00:08:26.279
to do since I was probably... eight years old

00:08:26.279 --> 00:08:28.339
i wanted to play football as long as i could

00:08:28.339 --> 00:08:32.039
and fly a couple of grandparents that were aces

00:08:32.039 --> 00:08:35.139
in world war ii so it was i saw what my dad did

00:08:35.139 --> 00:08:37.179
wanted to do that i heard the stories of what

00:08:37.179 --> 00:08:39.720
my grandparents did wanted to do that and then

00:08:39.720 --> 00:08:42.179
just kind of was able to tie it all together

00:08:42.179 --> 00:08:44.940
in life so that's the current that's the current

00:08:44.940 --> 00:08:47.740
status well let's go all the way back to grandparents

00:08:47.740 --> 00:08:50.620
because this is something i've had so many conversations

00:08:50.620 --> 00:08:55.539
with recently um We have this romanticization

00:08:55.539 --> 00:08:59.019
of that generation. And of course, what they

00:08:59.019 --> 00:09:01.360
did, no one can argue. Absolutely incredible.

00:09:01.519 --> 00:09:03.899
But I think where the erroneous romanticization

00:09:03.899 --> 00:09:06.279
comes in is, well, they just came home, they

00:09:06.279 --> 00:09:08.019
rolled up the sleeves and they just got on with

00:09:08.019 --> 00:09:10.500
it and they were fine. But then you hear all

00:09:10.500 --> 00:09:13.519
these grandfather stories and you're like, some

00:09:13.519 --> 00:09:15.559
of them weren't fine. Just the same way as some

00:09:15.559 --> 00:09:17.340
of our vets, some of our first responders aren't

00:09:17.340 --> 00:09:19.799
fine at the moment. And that's a natural reaction

00:09:19.799 --> 00:09:23.259
to the horrors that they had to endure. arguably

00:09:23.259 --> 00:09:25.379
the childhood they had prior to putting on uniform

00:09:25.379 --> 00:09:28.639
so when you reflect what was some of the the

00:09:28.639 --> 00:09:30.799
powerful combat stories that you heard if any

00:09:30.799 --> 00:09:33.480
and then do you now with this kind of mental

00:09:33.480 --> 00:09:36.539
health lens see any of the trawler of war on

00:09:36.539 --> 00:09:40.940
your grandparents sure um i think i think the

00:09:40.940 --> 00:09:43.440
most thing that i was affected by hearing about

00:09:43.440 --> 00:09:47.480
it growing up was their age um doing what they

00:09:47.480 --> 00:09:51.970
did flying in a world war at 20 years old um

00:09:51.970 --> 00:09:56.769
19 in some cases um that is pretty astounding

00:09:56.769 --> 00:09:59.049
because i didn't start flying professionally

00:09:59.049 --> 00:10:03.190
and in law enforcement until i was you know into

00:10:03.190 --> 00:10:07.570
my late 20s so mid to late 20s so and those couple

00:10:07.570 --> 00:10:10.070
of years i think make a huge formative formative

00:10:10.070 --> 00:10:12.330
difference so i think that's something that always

00:10:12.330 --> 00:10:15.009
just kept me awestruck when i was younger just

00:10:15.009 --> 00:10:16.909
uh just thinking about what they were able to

00:10:16.909 --> 00:10:19.389
process or in some cases maybe not process just

00:10:19.389 --> 00:10:21.990
because you are young and you are just kind of

00:10:21.990 --> 00:10:25.309
living day by day you're able to accomplish and

00:10:25.309 --> 00:10:28.269
do the things that they did so i think that's

00:10:28.269 --> 00:10:30.929
always been been first and foremost kind of what

00:10:30.929 --> 00:10:33.309
stuck out to me in my mind and then looking back

00:10:33.309 --> 00:10:37.029
on it through the lens that i have now their

00:10:37.029 --> 00:10:41.539
ability I know we're doing it differently now.

00:10:41.659 --> 00:10:43.899
We're having these conversations and we're talking

00:10:43.899 --> 00:10:46.980
about these things and talking about the pressures

00:10:46.980 --> 00:10:48.700
of the job or the things that you see and the

00:10:48.700 --> 00:10:51.200
things that you experience. But they did. They

00:10:51.200 --> 00:10:54.980
just came back home. And whether they had each

00:10:54.980 --> 00:10:58.860
other in their group of friends or their fellow

00:10:58.860 --> 00:11:02.259
men and women at arms that they spoke to about

00:11:02.259 --> 00:11:04.870
it, those... conversations I've never been privy

00:11:04.870 --> 00:11:07.029
to, but it always seemed like they just rolled

00:11:07.029 --> 00:11:10.190
up their sleeves and moved on to the next thing.

00:11:10.269 --> 00:11:15.529
Just this impressive commitment to duty. And

00:11:15.529 --> 00:11:17.549
I think when my grandparents came back, it was

00:11:17.549 --> 00:11:20.789
right into the family life. And it's unfortunate,

00:11:21.029 --> 00:11:25.149
they're both past now and I wasn't old enough

00:11:25.149 --> 00:11:27.610
to dig into that and have those conversations

00:11:27.610 --> 00:11:30.289
with them. I just caught the romanticized version

00:11:30.289 --> 00:11:33.379
of it and was just... impressed by it at such

00:11:33.379 --> 00:11:35.340
a young age. And I think probably nature and

00:11:35.340 --> 00:11:37.240
nurture that kind of steered me down the path

00:11:37.240 --> 00:11:42.759
that I'm on for sure. But I wish I had that time

00:11:42.759 --> 00:11:46.820
to have those conversations and really get into

00:11:46.820 --> 00:11:49.159
what they were feeling, what they were thinking,

00:11:49.279 --> 00:11:52.519
what the pressures were of coming home to an

00:11:52.519 --> 00:11:54.600
environment like that so starkly different from

00:11:54.600 --> 00:11:57.929
what they experienced. When you look back at

00:11:57.929 --> 00:12:00.370
the generation prior, obviously it was the Great

00:12:00.370 --> 00:12:03.429
Depressions. Some of these families were definitely

00:12:03.429 --> 00:12:05.909
hardened by discomfort a lot more than arguably

00:12:05.909 --> 00:12:08.950
we are. But when you listen to these grandfather

00:12:08.950 --> 00:12:11.149
stories, a lot of times there was alcoholism,

00:12:11.169 --> 00:12:13.049
there was domestic abuse, there was a lot of

00:12:13.049 --> 00:12:15.389
things that we still see today because they were

00:12:15.389 --> 00:12:18.350
human beings first and then maybe a little bit

00:12:18.350 --> 00:12:19.970
tougher, maybe a little bit more resilient, but

00:12:19.970 --> 00:12:22.289
still human beings. So some people obviously

00:12:22.289 --> 00:12:24.950
processed it well. Dick Winters is a good example.

00:12:25.949 --> 00:12:27.909
the 101st you know he wrote a whole book and

00:12:27.909 --> 00:12:30.990
he seemed to retain you know the the ability

00:12:30.990 --> 00:12:33.149
to lead and the ability to move forward but i

00:12:33.149 --> 00:12:34.950
think a lot of people suffered in silence as

00:12:34.950 --> 00:12:36.850
well and we just kind of brushed over them as

00:12:36.850 --> 00:12:40.350
a as a culture yeah i know i know from from my

00:12:40.350 --> 00:12:43.230
experience with with my father and uh and speaking

00:12:43.230 --> 00:12:45.549
with him the where the word that he would describe

00:12:45.549 --> 00:12:48.149
his father as it was just it was always this

00:12:48.149 --> 00:12:51.690
stoicism There was just this steady stoicism

00:12:51.690 --> 00:12:54.889
that I think was a product, a byproduct of that

00:12:54.889 --> 00:12:57.230
environment he came out of. And it wasn't so

00:12:57.230 --> 00:12:59.529
much that he was always intimidated by him, but

00:12:59.529 --> 00:13:04.250
there was just a heaviness. And that was prevalent

00:13:04.250 --> 00:13:07.070
throughout the rest of his life. Absolutely.

00:13:07.659 --> 00:13:09.840
Well, I just had an interview with Danny Alvarez,

00:13:09.899 --> 00:13:11.720
who's one of our state representatives in the

00:13:11.720 --> 00:13:15.220
Tampa area. And one of the bills he was pushing

00:13:15.220 --> 00:13:17.799
was to actually help farmers in the state of

00:13:17.799 --> 00:13:19.600
Florida, I think especially the cattle farmers.

00:13:19.740 --> 00:13:21.840
And I didn't realize how prevalent that was as

00:13:21.840 --> 00:13:27.720
a state. Talk to me about the beautiful things

00:13:27.720 --> 00:13:29.639
about the cattle farming that you've experienced

00:13:29.639 --> 00:13:31.600
and what are the challenges that Florida farmers

00:13:31.600 --> 00:13:35.000
are facing? I think, obviously, there's the urban

00:13:35.000 --> 00:13:38.139
squeeze, especially over the last couple of years

00:13:38.139 --> 00:13:41.440
with COVID and different states making policy

00:13:41.440 --> 00:13:44.039
changes. Florida has exploded. It's always been

00:13:44.039 --> 00:13:47.320
on the rise, but it has been ramped up completely.

00:13:48.440 --> 00:13:51.419
Yeah, Florida, for a very long time, I think

00:13:51.419 --> 00:13:53.980
it still holds the title. It's the number one

00:13:53.980 --> 00:13:59.279
calving producer of the United States in the

00:13:59.279 --> 00:14:03.440
cattle and beef industry. Cattle is raised here

00:14:03.440 --> 00:14:08.039
from its infancy. And then once they're born

00:14:08.039 --> 00:14:09.840
and raised up a little bit, then they're shipped

00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:13.940
off, usually out west, for beef production. But

00:14:13.940 --> 00:14:16.980
the process starts here. And I think the biggest

00:14:16.980 --> 00:14:21.460
thing that a lot of agriculture faces is just...

00:14:21.919 --> 00:14:24.820
Especially with Florida being surrounded by water

00:14:24.820 --> 00:14:27.059
on all sides, you've just got this urban sprawl

00:14:27.059 --> 00:14:29.620
that just squeezes the middle of the state. It's

00:14:29.620 --> 00:14:33.419
still sustainable for now, but it will be an

00:14:33.419 --> 00:14:41.019
issue. I went up during my youth to Ocala in

00:14:41.019 --> 00:14:43.539
Gainesville and had family that had farms and

00:14:43.539 --> 00:14:48.340
ranches. There was a very, very beautiful simplicity.

00:14:51.370 --> 00:14:55.330
the lifestyle up there and um it's everything

00:14:55.330 --> 00:14:57.210
it not to sound cliche but it's everything that

00:14:57.210 --> 00:15:00.450
you would hear in a country song or just life

00:15:00.450 --> 00:15:03.269
is who you're with and what you're doing and

00:15:03.269 --> 00:15:06.970
uh and that's enough and um and it's hard work

00:15:06.970 --> 00:15:09.570
they were grueling summers when i was up there

00:15:09.570 --> 00:15:11.669
it's like i have like these fond memories of

00:15:11.669 --> 00:15:13.470
it but then i really dig in and i think about

00:15:13.470 --> 00:15:16.029
how much i wanted to be back on the coast you

00:15:16.029 --> 00:15:19.330
know out on a boat um i get a little can't come

00:15:19.330 --> 00:15:22.570
back to reality But it was an incredible experience.

00:15:22.750 --> 00:15:26.230
I mean, it taught me hard work, what it is to

00:15:26.230 --> 00:15:29.570
wake up when the sun comes up, work all day and

00:15:29.570 --> 00:15:33.470
really be hungry for dinner at the end of the

00:15:33.470 --> 00:15:35.070
day. I go home now and, you know, I'll eat a

00:15:35.070 --> 00:15:36.970
little bit and go to bed. But those were like

00:15:36.970 --> 00:15:39.169
ravenous days where as soon as you sit down at

00:15:39.169 --> 00:15:40.909
the dinner table, you inhale everything in front

00:15:40.909 --> 00:15:42.950
of you and then you go to sleep and wake up and

00:15:42.950 --> 00:15:45.970
do it all again. It was a beautiful time, man.

00:15:45.990 --> 00:15:48.029
They're really fond memories. Well, I live in

00:15:48.029 --> 00:15:50.529
Ocala. And I've seen, sadly, a lot of our horse

00:15:50.529 --> 00:15:52.870
farms just be completely decimated and turned

00:15:52.870 --> 00:15:55.759
into housing. And let me... not be a hypocrite

00:15:55.759 --> 00:15:59.299
i'm sitting in a house on the farm so you know

00:15:59.299 --> 00:16:02.019
i'm part of the problem but uh you know the villages

00:16:02.019 --> 00:16:04.320
now is just getting bigger and bigger and bigger

00:16:04.320 --> 00:16:06.539
and we're losing all that land between orlando

00:16:06.539 --> 00:16:09.179
and ocala as well so you know there has to be

00:16:09.179 --> 00:16:11.679
a line in the sand i mean at some point you've

00:16:11.679 --> 00:16:13.700
got to say enough is enough and retain the very

00:16:13.700 --> 00:16:16.899
beauty that florida has before it becomes a concrete

00:16:16.899 --> 00:16:19.419
jungle yeah that was the that was the essence

00:16:19.419 --> 00:16:23.019
of it for sure I don't think it'll, it's never

00:16:23.019 --> 00:16:25.340
been the same after air conditioning was invented.

00:16:25.620 --> 00:16:27.879
It would have stayed the same had air conditioning

00:16:27.879 --> 00:16:30.460
not been invented. Very true. Very, very true.

00:16:31.320 --> 00:16:33.019
All right. Well, then you mentioned about your

00:16:33.019 --> 00:16:37.799
dad's NFL career. As we sit here now, we're slowly

00:16:37.799 --> 00:16:39.639
starting to understand that the mental health

00:16:39.639 --> 00:16:42.299
side is not just a psychology, but it's a physiology.

00:16:42.299 --> 00:16:45.139
And a lot of combat athletes, contact sports,

00:16:45.500 --> 00:16:49.600
the military, the CTE, the concussion related.

00:16:50.610 --> 00:16:52.870
impacts you know becoming more and more prevalent

00:16:52.870 --> 00:16:55.090
and more and more we're more aware of them now

00:16:55.090 --> 00:16:58.289
what about that impact on your father as we sit

00:16:58.289 --> 00:17:01.519
here now Yeah. So my, my father actually participated.

00:17:01.559 --> 00:17:04.000
So he played throughout the eighties and the

00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:06.599
game was different then. Like I, it's funny.

00:17:06.660 --> 00:17:08.440
I was probably a couple of weeks ago. I showed

00:17:08.440 --> 00:17:10.480
him, I think it was like, maybe it was an old

00:17:10.480 --> 00:17:13.500
broadcast intro for the NFL. And it was like

00:17:13.500 --> 00:17:16.460
a 22nd spotlight of like, you know, the upcoming

00:17:16.460 --> 00:17:19.319
Sunday night and Monday night games. And it was

00:17:19.319 --> 00:17:25.019
this little clip, but of the 15 tackles and action

00:17:25.019 --> 00:17:28.559
shots that made up this clip. every single one

00:17:28.559 --> 00:17:31.180
of those hits is now illegal. And we were kind

00:17:31.180 --> 00:17:34.519
of joking about it. It was celebrated at the

00:17:34.519 --> 00:17:37.980
time. This wouldn't even fly for a second in

00:17:37.980 --> 00:17:41.400
the league they're playing in now, for good reason.

00:17:41.539 --> 00:17:43.420
But we had a laugh about it, and he actually

00:17:43.420 --> 00:17:47.380
did participate in the Harvard study of the brain

00:17:47.380 --> 00:17:51.900
physiology. It must have been 10, 12 years ago

00:17:51.900 --> 00:17:57.180
now. What he took away, and kind of the... The

00:17:57.180 --> 00:18:00.500
insight that he got is what they found is that

00:18:00.500 --> 00:18:04.960
the brain is very similar for whatever reason.

00:18:05.000 --> 00:18:06.480
I don't think they've pinpointed it yet, but

00:18:06.480 --> 00:18:10.720
some athletes, for whatever reason, will be plagued

00:18:10.720 --> 00:18:13.420
by injuries their entire career, just some type

00:18:13.420 --> 00:18:16.480
of physiology. And then others will go through

00:18:16.480 --> 00:18:21.140
an entire career, God willing, without ever breaking

00:18:21.140 --> 00:18:25.720
a bone or tweaking a muscle. And my dad was one

00:18:25.720 --> 00:18:27.960
of those very fortunate where the head trauma,

00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:30.119
I mean, he started in the NFL, played for 11,

00:18:30.259 --> 00:18:33.720
started for nine in Super Bowl contending teams

00:18:33.720 --> 00:18:39.339
and has really, really gotten out unscathed from

00:18:39.339 --> 00:18:41.779
that experience, which is just extremely rare.

00:18:41.900 --> 00:18:45.099
And they said that's kind of just a physiology

00:18:45.099 --> 00:18:49.660
lottery. And he's extremely fortunate because.

00:18:50.480 --> 00:18:53.980
He's got players and teammates of his that haven't

00:18:53.980 --> 00:18:57.299
been, and he's seen the decline and how rapid

00:18:57.299 --> 00:19:00.460
it increases. It's heartbreaking because those

00:19:00.460 --> 00:19:02.440
were people I looked up to when I was growing

00:19:02.440 --> 00:19:04.359
up that would always be over at the house, and

00:19:04.359 --> 00:19:07.180
then as they get into their twilight years, there's

00:19:07.180 --> 00:19:11.099
this serious drop -off. He's been very fortunate,

00:19:11.180 --> 00:19:13.819
and he's thankful for that every single day and

00:19:13.819 --> 00:19:18.769
for what his career afforded him. Knowing what

00:19:18.769 --> 00:19:21.549
I know, too, in the law enforcement side and

00:19:21.549 --> 00:19:25.529
seeing those kinds of injuries, it's a blessing.

00:19:26.390 --> 00:19:29.410
Luck is the only thing that I could describe

00:19:29.410 --> 00:19:34.750
it as. Extremely grateful that he's one of those

00:19:34.750 --> 00:19:37.809
small numbers that is doing fine. That's amazing.

00:19:38.349 --> 00:19:41.250
Yeah, even with the physical injuries, now we're

00:19:41.250 --> 00:19:43.609
starting to realize that the multi -sport athletes,

00:19:43.869 --> 00:19:45.490
which a lot of your dad's generation probably

00:19:45.490 --> 00:19:48.549
were back then, you know, football the whole

00:19:48.549 --> 00:19:50.650
time and summer camps and conditioning camps

00:19:50.650 --> 00:19:53.450
and travel ball. And like we do to our kids now.

00:19:53.690 --> 00:19:56.089
So the multi -sport athlete actually is a lot

00:19:56.089 --> 00:19:57.809
more resilient. And that's not so much the brain,

00:19:57.829 --> 00:19:59.970
I'm sure. But, you know, like you said, the ability

00:19:59.970 --> 00:20:02.349
to overcome injuries, a lot of injuries are overuse.

00:20:02.670 --> 00:20:04.950
So if you're playing, you know, a multitude of

00:20:04.950 --> 00:20:07.849
sports. it gives you this kind of universal resilience

00:20:07.849 --> 00:20:11.130
versus you're a pitcher, you know, at 12 years

00:20:11.130 --> 00:20:12.910
old. Give one skill set a break for a season,

00:20:12.970 --> 00:20:16.390
then pick up, yeah, and get yourself well -rounded,

00:20:16.410 --> 00:20:20.029
for sure. It definitely has its positives. Absolutely.

00:20:20.109 --> 00:20:22.470
Well, you mentioned being 15 minutes from the

00:20:22.470 --> 00:20:24.769
Everglades. Actually, when I worked for Hialeah

00:20:24.769 --> 00:20:26.910
Fire, I lived in Pembroke Pines, and at the time,

00:20:26.910 --> 00:20:29.250
I think there were only two streets between us

00:20:29.250 --> 00:20:33.069
and the Everglades at that point. Yeah. I know

00:20:33.069 --> 00:20:35.769
in your bio you sent me over, you talk about

00:20:35.769 --> 00:20:37.869
the interaction with apex predators. So when

00:20:37.869 --> 00:20:41.230
did that fascination with the murderers that

00:20:41.230 --> 00:20:43.809
we have inhabiting our state begin? Yeah, the

00:20:43.809 --> 00:20:48.009
murder logs, alligators. Yeah, that started in

00:20:48.009 --> 00:20:52.509
college. So when I would come back. from Mississippi

00:20:52.509 --> 00:20:54.609
State, we'd get the month of May off before we

00:20:54.609 --> 00:20:56.609
had to be back for summer conditioning and two

00:20:56.609 --> 00:20:58.950
days leading up to the season. And I grew up

00:20:58.950 --> 00:21:01.890
diving, fishing and hunting and diving. So for

00:21:01.890 --> 00:21:03.730
cash, I went and just worked on a dive boat.

00:21:03.829 --> 00:21:07.529
And I would spearfish as often as I could. I

00:21:07.529 --> 00:21:10.710
grew up lobstering down in the Keys. So once

00:21:10.710 --> 00:21:15.150
I started spearfishing and running chartered

00:21:15.150 --> 00:21:18.390
expeditions for the dive boats as the dive guide,

00:21:18.490 --> 00:21:20.970
as soon as I started seeing sharks regularly,

00:21:21.549 --> 00:21:24.650
It's all I wanted to see and just kept trying

00:21:24.650 --> 00:21:27.869
to get closer and closer and closer. And I'd

00:21:27.869 --> 00:21:30.549
been in the water since I was, you know, in wild

00:21:30.549 --> 00:21:34.009
water, either ocean or lakes and swamps since

00:21:34.009 --> 00:21:36.049
I was eight, nine years old. That was just part

00:21:36.049 --> 00:21:39.529
of growing up here. So I just I just had a pull.

00:21:39.690 --> 00:21:46.210
There was that that led to a a career of of taking

00:21:46.210 --> 00:21:49.430
people out, you know, when not a career, but

00:21:49.430 --> 00:21:52.869
just. making ends meet as a poor college kid,

00:21:53.009 --> 00:21:56.170
taking people out and then showing them how much

00:21:56.170 --> 00:21:58.509
closer they could get to animals and sharks and

00:21:58.509 --> 00:22:01.069
without cages, just through interactions. And

00:22:01.069 --> 00:22:04.490
then over the years, through college and then

00:22:04.490 --> 00:22:07.049
after college and continuing to dive, I started

00:22:07.049 --> 00:22:09.829
to, with the rise of social media, I started

00:22:09.829 --> 00:22:13.049
to get inquiries about people, some affluent

00:22:13.049 --> 00:22:16.589
clients that were in LA or throughout the country

00:22:16.589 --> 00:22:19.430
elsewhere. where they wanted to go out and experience

00:22:19.430 --> 00:22:22.410
this in a boutique -style setting, not jump on

00:22:22.410 --> 00:22:24.410
a charter boat and go out with a bunch of other

00:22:24.410 --> 00:22:27.450
people. And I started kind of pulling this list

00:22:27.450 --> 00:22:31.450
of clients together to just showcase and put

00:22:31.450 --> 00:22:33.650
them in a one -on -one situation with whether

00:22:33.650 --> 00:22:37.130
it was tiger sharks, bull sharks, alligators

00:22:37.130 --> 00:22:39.910
in the Everglades, anything that you really...

00:22:41.599 --> 00:22:45.519
Anything that could kill you, I guess. And started

00:22:45.519 --> 00:22:47.740
to put those trips together. And then eventually

00:22:47.740 --> 00:22:51.779
that kind of steamrolled into running those trips

00:22:51.779 --> 00:22:53.680
internationally. So whenever somebody wanted

00:22:53.680 --> 00:22:56.680
to see something, whether it was hammerheads,

00:22:56.779 --> 00:22:59.579
I chartered, would put together trips and guide

00:22:59.579 --> 00:23:03.799
trips in the Bahamas. I've led trips in Tahiti.

00:23:04.359 --> 00:23:07.000
in Mexico and Guadalupe for great white sharks.

00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:08.799
So I just started to kind of put that together.

00:23:08.900 --> 00:23:12.400
And social media certainly helps and became recognized

00:23:12.400 --> 00:23:16.119
as somebody that could, I wouldn't say a wildlife

00:23:16.119 --> 00:23:20.019
expert, but I'm somebody who knows how to stay

00:23:20.019 --> 00:23:23.460
alive. And I think that was stay safe and stay

00:23:23.460 --> 00:23:25.440
alive. And that was kind of the biggest draw

00:23:25.440 --> 00:23:28.240
for people that just wanted to. a very intimate

00:23:28.240 --> 00:23:30.259
one -on -one experience with an animal without

00:23:30.259 --> 00:23:32.559
the crowds and the splashing and all these other

00:23:32.559 --> 00:23:35.079
people. So that's kind of where that just organically

00:23:35.079 --> 00:23:37.859
grew into and something that I still do today

00:23:37.859 --> 00:23:40.859
with a select number of people. What did that

00:23:40.859 --> 00:23:44.099
curve look like between the first interactions

00:23:44.099 --> 00:23:46.880
with something that, if you grew up in our generation,

00:23:47.039 --> 00:23:49.019
you saw was going to murder you in a beach full

00:23:49.019 --> 00:23:53.859
of swimmers, to actually developing this skill

00:23:53.859 --> 00:23:57.700
to... safely close the distance between yourself

00:23:57.700 --> 00:24:00.400
and these predators yeah there was there was

00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:04.000
method to the madness right so um i grew up idolizing

00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:08.900
um manny puig who years ago had uh the ultimate

00:24:08.900 --> 00:24:11.299
predator show it was on animal planet he was

00:24:11.299 --> 00:24:13.920
after like right after jeff corwin he's a native

00:24:13.920 --> 00:24:19.089
um to miami and uh was actually uh a friend,

00:24:19.250 --> 00:24:21.369
um, somebody that I've met several times and

00:24:21.369 --> 00:24:26.230
I'd seen him dive in black water, uh, on TV and,

00:24:26.250 --> 00:24:28.990
um, got to, when I was younger, got to, got to

00:24:28.990 --> 00:24:30.849
see him in person, interact with him. And the

00:24:30.849 --> 00:24:33.109
fear barrier, I think maybe even like we were

00:24:33.109 --> 00:24:35.390
talking about earlier with, you know, our grandparents

00:24:35.390 --> 00:24:37.470
being a world war two vets, this kind of young

00:24:37.470 --> 00:24:39.509
mentality that you're a little bit indestructible,

00:24:39.630 --> 00:24:45.369
um, kind of just curve the edges of that. And

00:24:45.369 --> 00:24:48.490
I probably made was way more lucky than I was

00:24:48.490 --> 00:24:50.329
good at what I was doing when I was out doing

00:24:50.329 --> 00:24:53.269
it by myself. But it started with just friends.

00:24:53.490 --> 00:24:55.410
The first couple of times that I did it and strapped

00:24:55.410 --> 00:24:56.990
a GoPro to myself, somebody said, hey, I want

00:24:56.990 --> 00:24:59.670
to go with you. I want to go with you. And then

00:24:59.670 --> 00:25:02.009
I kind of used my friends as guinea pigs. I didn't

00:25:02.009 --> 00:25:05.269
tell them that at the time. But yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:25:05.349 --> 00:25:07.170
Like, hey, all right, I've kind of figured this

00:25:07.170 --> 00:25:10.690
out with me. Now, how can I figure it out with?

00:25:11.119 --> 00:25:13.119
somebody over my shoulder and somebody to my

00:25:13.119 --> 00:25:15.039
left and somebody to my right and how can i set

00:25:15.039 --> 00:25:17.640
this dive up to position myself where i'm not

00:25:17.640 --> 00:25:21.240
in their way but if i need to be i'm an arm's

00:25:21.240 --> 00:25:24.299
length away to intervene and then once i started

00:25:24.299 --> 00:25:28.380
getting good at that um kind of word just spreads

00:25:28.380 --> 00:25:31.660
and uh once i got those first couple of clients

00:25:31.660 --> 00:25:34.990
that are now i consider more friend than than

00:25:34.990 --> 00:25:38.250
I ever would client. You know, the first thing

00:25:38.250 --> 00:25:39.990
that people like to do at a cocktail party is

00:25:39.990 --> 00:25:41.529
bust out their phone these days and show them

00:25:41.529 --> 00:25:43.210
pictures of what they've been up to and what

00:25:43.210 --> 00:25:45.730
they've done. And that's kind of all the advertising

00:25:45.730 --> 00:25:48.470
you need in a niche little thing like this, where,

00:25:48.549 --> 00:25:52.250
you know, crazy is the identifier for, you know,

00:25:52.250 --> 00:25:54.710
getting a new person on board to come do it with

00:25:54.710 --> 00:25:57.329
you. It's kind of how that developed. Was there

00:25:57.329 --> 00:25:59.329
an element when you brought the first person,

00:25:59.369 --> 00:26:01.789
you say, let me see how they interact with them,

00:26:01.890 --> 00:26:03.970
that behind your back, you had your fingers crossed

00:26:03.970 --> 00:26:05.910
because if this goes wrong, then I'm back to

00:26:05.910 --> 00:26:09.430
the drawing board minus one person. I'd love

00:26:09.430 --> 00:26:13.109
to say that jokingly, but I was very, very calculated.

00:26:13.569 --> 00:26:16.029
I wouldn't have ever put, even if it was a friend

00:26:16.029 --> 00:26:19.589
that I thought I could kind of mess with and

00:26:19.589 --> 00:26:22.509
they could handle themselves. I was trying to

00:26:22.509 --> 00:26:26.109
kind of, before I even knew. what safety briefings

00:26:26.109 --> 00:26:30.130
were or got into the world of being a first responder

00:26:30.130 --> 00:26:33.269
and responding to life -saving calls. For some

00:26:33.269 --> 00:26:35.230
reason, that was kind of always in the forefront

00:26:35.230 --> 00:26:38.509
of my mind. Because I wanted it to be repeatable.

00:26:38.589 --> 00:26:41.349
So without knowing what my process was or being

00:26:41.349 --> 00:26:44.589
able to name a protocol or a brief or a debrief,

00:26:44.769 --> 00:26:48.450
I was kind of just naturally doing that. So it

00:26:48.450 --> 00:26:53.079
was a long process. And, you know, one of the

00:26:53.079 --> 00:26:55.660
things like in aviation, you never want to go

00:26:55.660 --> 00:26:59.460
from what your skill level is to up here. You

00:26:59.460 --> 00:27:01.960
always want to staircase that thing. Because

00:27:01.960 --> 00:27:05.079
when you do this jump, that's where you've, you

00:27:05.079 --> 00:27:08.059
know, overreached your abilities and overestimated

00:27:08.059 --> 00:27:09.619
what you're capable of. And that's where you

00:27:09.619 --> 00:27:12.299
find yourself in those really dangerous moments.

00:27:12.380 --> 00:27:16.160
That approach kind of just... was just innately

00:27:16.160 --> 00:27:19.660
there. And I don't know why. I'm glad it was.

00:27:19.839 --> 00:27:22.460
But I just took it one step at a time, one day

00:27:22.460 --> 00:27:24.740
at a time, and wasn't trying to have these giant

00:27:24.740 --> 00:27:27.140
leaps forward. That's something I'd feel comfortable

00:27:27.140 --> 00:27:31.759
doing now. But at the time, I was trying to mitigate

00:27:31.759 --> 00:27:34.440
risk. So it was a slow process. I wish there

00:27:34.440 --> 00:27:36.960
was like a good aha story, but I just took my

00:27:36.960 --> 00:27:40.619
time with it. Two of the people that really amazed

00:27:40.619 --> 00:27:43.380
me, I had Paul DeGelder on the show, the Australian

00:27:43.380 --> 00:27:46.900
military member who got, I think it was arm and

00:27:46.900 --> 00:27:50.039
leg bitten off in City Harbour. In his training,

00:27:50.279 --> 00:27:53.160
yeah. And then Bethany Hamilton as well. And

00:27:53.160 --> 00:27:56.480
both of them are huge, you know, advocates, exactly.

00:27:56.720 --> 00:27:59.079
So I think that speaks volumes that, yeah, I

00:27:59.079 --> 00:28:00.720
mean, they thought they were food. That's what

00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:02.099
they're supposed to do. They're supposed to kill

00:28:02.099 --> 00:28:05.150
and eat. for a human being to have such compassion

00:28:05.150 --> 00:28:07.890
after you know having a life -changing event

00:28:07.890 --> 00:28:11.589
to still have this love for nature and advocate

00:28:11.589 --> 00:28:14.170
for these very creatures i mean that's that's

00:28:14.170 --> 00:28:18.630
an incredible example of human spirit oh absolutely

00:28:18.630 --> 00:28:21.089
because that's that's what i love about it the

00:28:21.089 --> 00:28:24.789
perspectives shift that takes place when you

00:28:24.789 --> 00:28:28.710
then you enter their world and you're able to

00:28:28.710 --> 00:28:31.140
see it Not, you know, not splashing around the

00:28:31.140 --> 00:28:33.700
surface at a beach or on a surfboard or, you

00:28:33.700 --> 00:28:34.960
know, you jumped off the boat or whatever. When

00:28:34.960 --> 00:28:37.579
you enter their world and you see it and you

00:28:37.579 --> 00:28:39.980
see nature with millions of years of evolution

00:28:39.980 --> 00:28:43.440
just existing. And sometimes they're curious

00:28:43.440 --> 00:28:44.940
about you and sometimes they're not. Sometimes

00:28:44.940 --> 00:28:47.059
they could care less that you're there. It is

00:28:47.059 --> 00:28:49.579
a huge perspective shift and you just you sit

00:28:49.579 --> 00:28:53.059
there in awe. And yeah, it's no surprise to me.

00:28:53.119 --> 00:28:56.619
They had devastating injuries. But when I hear

00:28:56.619 --> 00:28:59.460
stories like that, knowing. What I know and what

00:28:59.460 --> 00:29:01.619
I've experienced and what I felt, I mean, I've

00:29:01.619 --> 00:29:04.319
been in the water and shed tears before because

00:29:04.319 --> 00:29:09.019
nature just is astounding. And you're privileged

00:29:09.019 --> 00:29:13.319
to see it because, I mean, you could go through

00:29:13.319 --> 00:29:15.400
a room full of people and you could ask them,

00:29:15.500 --> 00:29:18.359
have you ever actually seen this? Not. on discovery

00:29:18.359 --> 00:29:20.700
channel if you actually ever seen this like in

00:29:20.700 --> 00:29:23.579
the wild and the numbers are staggeringly low

00:29:23.579 --> 00:29:25.980
and when you see it with your own eyes it's it's

00:29:25.980 --> 00:29:28.900
a huge shift in what you appreciate about you

00:29:28.900 --> 00:29:30.740
know the world still being a little bit mysterious

00:29:30.740 --> 00:29:33.680
and the world still being big and grand and and

00:29:33.680 --> 00:29:36.740
full of surprises it's it's a big one i was at

00:29:36.740 --> 00:29:39.839
crescent beach just south of augustine um probably

00:29:39.839 --> 00:29:43.019
eight months ago now and it was just one of those

00:29:43.019 --> 00:29:44.819
things where it was just me i like doing the

00:29:44.819 --> 00:29:48.220
whole you know body surfing thing um like a five

00:29:48.220 --> 00:29:51.319
-year -old even though i'm 51 now uh and this

00:29:51.319 --> 00:29:53.940
part of dolphin just kept swinging but swimming

00:29:53.940 --> 00:29:55.900
by and it was absolutely beautiful i'm standing

00:29:55.900 --> 00:29:59.000
there um and it's one of those things where everyone

00:29:59.000 --> 00:30:01.240
else is on the beach you know or they're nowhere

00:30:01.240 --> 00:30:03.140
near and i'm just blown away they're missing

00:30:03.140 --> 00:30:05.099
this kind of you know god -like moment because

00:30:05.099 --> 00:30:08.099
i truly see you know god in nature i really do

00:30:08.859 --> 00:30:12.400
But my sister is an editor for the BBC, the National

00:30:12.400 --> 00:30:17.200
History Department. And she was saying, well,

00:30:17.279 --> 00:30:18.960
you know that dolphins also protect people from

00:30:18.960 --> 00:30:21.940
sharks, don't you? And I was like, oh, so that

00:30:21.940 --> 00:30:23.980
beautiful moment could have been a great white

00:30:23.980 --> 00:30:26.339
on the other side of it. It's still amazing,

00:30:26.460 --> 00:30:28.480
but it shifted it for me a little bit. Yeah,

00:30:28.500 --> 00:30:32.059
yeah, yeah. Now, what about as you reflect with

00:30:32.059 --> 00:30:34.279
all these encounters that you have, you know,

00:30:34.279 --> 00:30:37.259
are there any that really stand out for any particular

00:30:37.259 --> 00:30:42.680
reason? Yes. The moment I talked about earlier

00:30:42.680 --> 00:30:45.420
where I was shedding tears, I was diving in Tahiti

00:30:45.420 --> 00:30:49.880
with humpback whales. And they venture from the

00:30:49.880 --> 00:30:52.880
northern Pacific, Alaska area, Antarctica, and

00:30:52.880 --> 00:30:55.839
they come down and they calve in Tahiti in the

00:30:55.839 --> 00:30:58.660
warm waters. So they eat all winter and they

00:30:58.660 --> 00:31:00.880
travel all the way down. Mother gives birth and

00:31:00.880 --> 00:31:03.599
they spend the next couple of months in Tahiti

00:31:03.599 --> 00:31:05.940
in the shallow waters just nursing their calves.

00:31:06.420 --> 00:31:12.640
And I was on a dive. And this gigantic mother

00:31:12.640 --> 00:31:15.599
comes up from the bottom, comes up to the surface,

00:31:15.779 --> 00:31:19.140
and then she turns. And I didn't see it the entire

00:31:19.140 --> 00:31:21.559
time until she turned. But as she turned, the

00:31:21.559 --> 00:31:24.740
calf is just pinned right to her hip. And the

00:31:24.740 --> 00:31:27.740
calf, who is this little ball of energy, mom's

00:31:27.740 --> 00:31:30.160
tired. She's journeyed across the world. She's

00:31:30.160 --> 00:31:33.039
been feeding milk. She's depleted. She's just

00:31:33.039 --> 00:31:35.059
hoping the trip goes well and they get to go

00:31:35.059 --> 00:31:38.339
home. she's just kind of sombering through this

00:31:38.339 --> 00:31:41.900
calf sees us in the water and lights up and thinks

00:31:41.900 --> 00:31:45.099
we're like the newest toy on the block. So it

00:31:45.099 --> 00:31:49.059
comes splashing over and twirling and somersaulting.

00:31:49.079 --> 00:31:51.720
And then as it gets a little bit too far away

00:31:51.720 --> 00:31:55.180
from mom, mom starts to sing to her and she starts

00:31:55.180 --> 00:31:58.359
singing back. And I was like, Oh man, who's cutting

00:31:58.359 --> 00:32:01.440
onions? Like just waterworks. I was like, Oh,

00:32:01.460 --> 00:32:03.680
it's the salt water. I was full on just like

00:32:03.680 --> 00:32:06.329
tearing up. It was like, hearing this sing song

00:32:06.329 --> 00:32:09.569
back and forth between these just like magnificent

00:32:09.569 --> 00:32:12.170
animals. It was, it was a life changer, man.

00:32:12.170 --> 00:32:14.490
It was, it was absolutely just a gorgeous moment.

00:32:14.849 --> 00:32:16.990
Highlight reel for the rest of my life. That

00:32:16.990 --> 00:32:20.970
was the good one. Um, I was diving with tiger

00:32:20.970 --> 00:32:23.690
sharks in the Bahamas, uh, leading an expedition

00:32:23.690 --> 00:32:26.869
there and it was getting, we were getting some,

00:32:26.910 --> 00:32:29.529
some sunset pictures. The tide was switching.

00:32:29.630 --> 00:32:31.910
The water was getting murky. Tiger sharks are

00:32:31.910 --> 00:32:35.339
extremely smart. And they know the limits of

00:32:35.339 --> 00:32:37.519
visibility. They'll use their strike pattern

00:32:37.519 --> 00:32:39.559
and go just outside of the field of visibility

00:32:39.559 --> 00:32:41.579
where you can just barely see a shadow glide

00:32:41.579 --> 00:32:44.500
by. And I knew it was getting to that point where,

00:32:44.559 --> 00:32:47.200
okay, this is kind of, you know, it could be

00:32:47.200 --> 00:32:48.859
dinner time. So let's call the dive. Let's get

00:32:48.859 --> 00:32:51.500
back on the boat. But we'd attracted them with

00:32:51.500 --> 00:32:52.960
a bait crate. So bait crate was still on the

00:32:52.960 --> 00:32:57.279
bottom. And I got everybody back in the water.

00:32:57.319 --> 00:32:59.200
And then it was my job to go swim back solo,

00:32:59.440 --> 00:33:01.640
grab the crate, get the crate back onto the boat.

00:33:02.839 --> 00:33:05.839
So the number one rule of tiger sharks is never

00:33:05.839 --> 00:33:08.359
take your eyes off the tiger shark. I left the

00:33:08.359 --> 00:33:10.980
boat. I got eyes on the tiger shark. I said,

00:33:11.000 --> 00:33:14.500
okay. She was coming around, wide pass, and I

00:33:14.500 --> 00:33:16.579
was kind of timing out when she would come back

00:33:16.579 --> 00:33:21.180
around my right -hand side, breathe up, go and

00:33:21.180 --> 00:33:23.819
do the dive, grab the crate, and I'm trying to

00:33:23.819 --> 00:33:25.480
do it as quickly as possible. And I did like

00:33:25.480 --> 00:33:27.640
a glance over my shoulder right before I grabbed

00:33:27.640 --> 00:33:30.569
the crate, and I thought I had eyes on her. And

00:33:30.569 --> 00:33:32.549
then as soon as I put my eyes back on the crate

00:33:32.549 --> 00:33:35.549
to grab it, I realized you didn't check good

00:33:35.549 --> 00:33:40.750
enough. That wasn't a positive ID. And as soon

00:33:40.750 --> 00:33:45.289
as I thought that, I thought to myself, this

00:33:45.289 --> 00:33:47.109
is one of those moments where this was maybe

00:33:47.109 --> 00:33:50.109
two seconds tops, but in my brain, it was a lifetime.

00:33:50.890 --> 00:33:53.670
I thought to myself, she's right behind me. She's

00:33:53.670 --> 00:33:56.829
100 % right behind me. And as soon as I go to

00:33:56.829 --> 00:34:00.990
grab the crate and I turn around, The mouth of

00:34:00.990 --> 00:34:03.309
the tiger shark, closed, mind you, she was still

00:34:03.309 --> 00:34:06.769
swimming calm, is right here, bumps my mask,

00:34:06.990 --> 00:34:09.789
kind of shifts my mask off, and this school bus

00:34:09.789 --> 00:34:14.349
just swam right over the top of me. And I just

00:34:14.349 --> 00:34:18.670
watched her go by, fixed my mask, and just kind

00:34:18.670 --> 00:34:21.230
of sat there for a second or two, just breathed

00:34:21.230 --> 00:34:23.769
it in, took that in for what it was worth. That

00:34:23.769 --> 00:34:26.449
is a self -correcting mistake. We will never

00:34:26.449 --> 00:34:29.820
do that again. Grabbed the crate. gave her like

00:34:29.820 --> 00:34:32.519
kind of a little salute like good going girl

00:34:32.519 --> 00:34:34.539
like you got me you're the best at what you do

00:34:34.539 --> 00:34:37.099
and then took the crate back to back to the boat

00:34:37.099 --> 00:34:40.039
and the day ended fine but it was a testament

00:34:40.039 --> 00:34:44.019
to the intelligence um and the vigilance that

00:34:44.019 --> 00:34:47.659
you have to have that it's just like in in any

00:34:47.659 --> 00:34:50.519
first responding scenario in aviation and all

00:34:50.519 --> 00:34:53.530
the things you have to reset the clock every

00:34:53.530 --> 00:34:56.030
single time on what your safety protocols are

00:34:56.030 --> 00:35:00.090
and what you're letting yourself get away with.

00:35:00.849 --> 00:35:02.989
It was another one of those aha moments where,

00:35:03.070 --> 00:35:05.289
all right, every time the rules are the rules,

00:35:05.329 --> 00:35:07.730
the safety checks are the safety checks. We don't

00:35:07.730 --> 00:35:10.070
breeze over them. We don't skip them. We do them

00:35:10.070 --> 00:35:12.530
every time. So I've taken that experience into

00:35:12.530 --> 00:35:15.809
a lot of avenues in my life, but it was a big

00:35:15.809 --> 00:35:18.429
life lesson. It's amazing. That reminds me of

00:35:18.429 --> 00:35:20.869
when I roll with the black belt in jujitsu. They

00:35:20.869 --> 00:35:22.909
just kind of kiss me on the head, say, I could

00:35:22.909 --> 00:35:25.090
have killed you. And then they got you here.

00:35:25.210 --> 00:35:30.630
Yep. Same scenario. All right. Well, let's get

00:35:30.630 --> 00:35:33.269
into the world of aviation then. So you mentioned

00:35:33.269 --> 00:35:35.530
that you were in school, you were playing football

00:35:35.530 --> 00:35:38.469
for as long as you could. When did you know that

00:35:38.469 --> 00:35:40.530
that was the end of your sporting career? And

00:35:40.530 --> 00:35:42.969
then talk to me about your entry into aviation.

00:35:43.769 --> 00:35:49.989
Yeah. So my, at the end of my career, um, at

00:35:49.989 --> 00:35:52.269
Mississippi state, there's, there was a time

00:35:52.269 --> 00:35:55.449
what I wanted to do. My goal was to go fly jets.

00:35:55.610 --> 00:35:58.670
So I applied to, to Naval officer candidate school

00:35:58.670 --> 00:36:02.349
and, uh, with my, with my degree. And I knew

00:36:02.349 --> 00:36:04.130
that there's, there's a time clock, right? So

00:36:04.130 --> 00:36:07.710
I was coming out of college. I had a couple of

00:36:07.710 --> 00:36:09.909
years where if I wanted to keep chasing, like

00:36:09.909 --> 00:36:12.690
a dream of putting cleats on every day, I could

00:36:12.690 --> 00:36:15.710
have done that. Uh, it was farfetched. My dad

00:36:15.710 --> 00:36:18.329
married a very pretty lady. That's very petite.

00:36:18.960 --> 00:36:20.719
He really just kind of hung me out to dry there.

00:36:20.900 --> 00:36:24.719
So I'm self -aware enough to know that he wasn't

00:36:24.719 --> 00:36:27.679
thinking of me when he married for love. You

00:36:27.679 --> 00:36:30.880
should have married a Samoan woman. Yeah, yeah.

00:36:32.159 --> 00:36:35.260
I'd probably still be playing. But I made the

00:36:35.260 --> 00:36:36.639
decision. I was like, I'm hanging up the cleats

00:36:36.639 --> 00:36:39.219
and I'm going full force into the next endeavor,

00:36:39.420 --> 00:36:43.239
which is to fly. And so I put in my application,

00:36:43.460 --> 00:36:45.699
got accepted to Naval OCS under a pilot slot.

00:36:46.250 --> 00:36:49.550
Went off to OCS in Newport, Rhode Island at the

00:36:49.550 --> 00:36:52.690
naval base up there. Completed that. And then,

00:36:52.730 --> 00:36:59.110
unfortunately, I had fully disclosed all my medical

00:36:59.110 --> 00:37:00.969
information, as you have to do during flight

00:37:00.969 --> 00:37:04.869
physicals and everything. I had one injury in

00:37:04.869 --> 00:37:08.610
high school. It was really my only injury in

00:37:08.610 --> 00:37:10.570
my entire career. I took a helmet right to the

00:37:10.570 --> 00:37:14.389
kneecap, and I chipped off a piece of my patella,

00:37:14.389 --> 00:37:17.699
my kneecap. It wasn't no ligament damage, no

00:37:17.699 --> 00:37:19.619
nothing. They went in the next day, removed the

00:37:19.619 --> 00:37:23.179
chip, shaved me down, sewed me up, and I was

00:37:23.179 --> 00:37:25.679
back on the field pretty quick. But I disclosed

00:37:25.679 --> 00:37:28.679
it, and then I found out as I was like two weeks

00:37:28.679 --> 00:37:33.619
away from graduating OCS that my medical status,

00:37:33.719 --> 00:37:35.579
although I'd passed all the preliminary things

00:37:35.579 --> 00:37:37.940
for flight, was still for some reason pending.

00:37:38.460 --> 00:37:41.800
And then family came up, graduation day comes.

00:37:42.400 --> 00:37:44.800
I keep checking this board every day to see what

00:37:44.800 --> 00:37:47.860
my status is. And then the day of graduation,

00:37:48.179 --> 00:37:50.099
about three hours before I'm supposed to walk

00:37:50.099 --> 00:37:52.880
across the stage and then go down to Pensacola

00:37:52.880 --> 00:37:55.639
for flight training, I get called into my lieutenant's

00:37:55.639 --> 00:37:58.380
office and he says, your opportunity for flight

00:37:58.380 --> 00:38:03.679
has been revoked, citing your knee. And I was

00:38:03.679 --> 00:38:07.940
awestruck. I couldn't even process it because

00:38:07.940 --> 00:38:10.000
I had already planned out the next eight years

00:38:10.000 --> 00:38:14.030
of my life. And once I kind of gathered myself,

00:38:14.130 --> 00:38:15.929
what does that mean? What are we doing? It was

00:38:15.929 --> 00:38:17.730
like, well, you're going to graduate today, but

00:38:17.730 --> 00:38:23.230
your opportunity to be an aviator is over. And

00:38:23.230 --> 00:38:28.809
I left the room and just kind of walked out of

00:38:28.809 --> 00:38:32.730
there a little awestruck. Went over to the hotel

00:38:32.730 --> 00:38:35.010
where my parents were before the graduation ceremony.

00:38:35.130 --> 00:38:36.909
I probably got an hour to spare at this point.

00:38:36.989 --> 00:38:39.130
And I knocked on the door. And as soon as my

00:38:39.130 --> 00:38:41.190
dad opened the door, I think it finally clicked.

00:38:41.869 --> 00:38:45.730
And I just broke down and started sobbing. And

00:38:45.730 --> 00:38:49.670
couldn't even get out to him what had happened.

00:38:50.170 --> 00:38:53.070
And after I did finally explain it, he was like,

00:38:53.090 --> 00:38:56.210
all right, well, just go figure something out.

00:38:56.230 --> 00:38:59.079
Go figure out the next step. Just put one foot

00:38:59.079 --> 00:39:00.380
in front of the other. We'll see you at graduation.

00:39:00.619 --> 00:39:03.380
You worry about it when this is over. Walked

00:39:03.380 --> 00:39:07.300
across the stage and just kind of in this limbo

00:39:07.300 --> 00:39:11.019
and then went into flight surgeons the next couple

00:39:11.019 --> 00:39:13.460
of weeks and trying to get things reviewed and

00:39:13.460 --> 00:39:17.360
found out at the end that this was 2013. There

00:39:17.360 --> 00:39:19.119
were huge federal budget cuts and essentially

00:39:19.119 --> 00:39:22.360
what they were doing was pouring through a secondary

00:39:22.360 --> 00:39:24.539
pour through of everybody's medical records and

00:39:24.539 --> 00:39:28.309
overnight with budget. We had way more pilots

00:39:28.309 --> 00:39:31.409
than planes. In aviation, it's always this carousel

00:39:31.409 --> 00:39:33.389
of hire and fire, and we've got more pilots than

00:39:33.389 --> 00:39:36.349
planes, or now we need pilots. And I caught it

00:39:36.349 --> 00:39:39.949
on the downswing. And so my naval aviation career

00:39:39.949 --> 00:39:43.909
was over right then and there. So I had the opportunity

00:39:43.909 --> 00:39:45.670
to stay in. I could have gone to some different

00:39:45.670 --> 00:39:48.730
designators and been on a ship and do that, but

00:39:48.730 --> 00:39:51.250
I'd put three years of preparation and flight

00:39:51.250 --> 00:39:53.730
training and all this into it. this endeavor

00:39:53.730 --> 00:39:56.889
and i was determined to fly so i got the opportunity

00:39:56.889 --> 00:40:00.150
just to to discharge from the navy and that's

00:40:00.150 --> 00:40:03.489
when i went immediately to the sheriff's office

00:40:03.489 --> 00:40:06.610
i wanted to fly in a tactical capacity that was

00:40:06.610 --> 00:40:09.010
my goal i i wasn't at the point in my career

00:40:09.010 --> 00:40:12.250
yet i didn't want to fly commercially and park

00:40:12.250 --> 00:40:14.730
the bus at some other terminal and move it back

00:40:14.730 --> 00:40:17.949
to the home base and i wanted to have a mission

00:40:17.949 --> 00:40:22.550
so sought out the sheriff's office and uniquely

00:40:22.550 --> 00:40:24.369
with our sheriff's office and some others across

00:40:24.369 --> 00:40:26.150
the countries, you've got to work the road no

00:40:26.150 --> 00:40:29.429
matter what ratings you have. And I came into

00:40:29.429 --> 00:40:31.909
the agency with pilot ratings, but you still

00:40:31.909 --> 00:40:33.769
have to go work the road because our job is to

00:40:33.769 --> 00:40:36.230
catch people, to render aid and to catch people.

00:40:36.389 --> 00:40:38.130
So if you don't think like a cop and you don't

00:40:38.130 --> 00:40:41.889
have that mindset for catching bad guys, you're

00:40:41.889 --> 00:40:45.190
really of no use in the helicopter. So work the

00:40:45.190 --> 00:40:49.190
road in some shady areas for three years. And

00:40:49.190 --> 00:40:50.909
then when an opening came over in the aviation

00:40:50.909 --> 00:40:54.510
unit, applied and gratefully and thankfully was

00:40:54.510 --> 00:40:57.150
accepted on the first go around and have been

00:40:57.150 --> 00:40:59.570
flying here ever since. So all's well that ended

00:40:59.570 --> 00:41:01.329
well. But it was, you know, it was an up and

00:41:01.329 --> 00:41:04.530
down, tumultuous kind of start to the career.

00:41:04.590 --> 00:41:06.969
And you just you keep knocking on doors. And

00:41:06.969 --> 00:41:09.170
if doors don't open, you kick open windows and

00:41:09.170 --> 00:41:12.010
jump through the window. That's the situation

00:41:12.010 --> 00:41:15.610
I found myself in. how did you handle it emotionally

00:41:15.610 --> 00:41:18.510
at that time when you have this identity and

00:41:18.510 --> 00:41:20.349
you've already as you said told the story in

00:41:20.349 --> 00:41:22.309
your mind for the next eight years and then your

00:41:22.309 --> 00:41:25.070
legs are cut from under you and to be slightly

00:41:25.070 --> 00:41:27.070
snarky it's funny because now we seem to have

00:41:27.070 --> 00:41:29.690
the money to send to israel no problem we can't

00:41:29.690 --> 00:41:31.989
even equip our own people but i'll move on with

00:41:31.989 --> 00:41:35.250
that um but uh yeah so you know the identity

00:41:35.250 --> 00:41:37.289
crisis that we know a lot of people suffer when

00:41:37.289 --> 00:41:40.199
they leave this profession It's the same thing

00:41:40.199 --> 00:41:43.039
when you were right there. I even had it at a

00:41:43.039 --> 00:41:44.780
much smaller rate when I was young. I was told

00:41:44.780 --> 00:41:46.880
I was colorblind. I wanted to be a firefighter.

00:41:46.920 --> 00:41:49.340
They said, you can't be a firefighter. Now, I'm

00:41:49.340 --> 00:41:51.400
not colorblind. I'm slightly color deficient,

00:41:51.400 --> 00:41:54.019
but those books, it's pass or fail or used to

00:41:54.019 --> 00:41:57.860
be. That was, what was I at the time, 14 -year

00:41:57.860 --> 00:41:59.739
-old boy. We're not talking about someone who's

00:41:59.739 --> 00:42:02.000
invested in all that training at that point.

00:42:02.159 --> 00:42:05.980
How did you deal with that initially? I think

00:42:05.980 --> 00:42:08.059
the one thing that did help me in that scenario

00:42:08.059 --> 00:42:14.019
is that hanging up my cleats from football, I

00:42:14.019 --> 00:42:16.920
was already of the perspective of I'm not what

00:42:16.920 --> 00:42:20.719
I do. Like the value and the skills that I've

00:42:20.719 --> 00:42:22.920
learned and the things that I approach life with

00:42:22.920 --> 00:42:25.039
that I've learned through all these different

00:42:25.039 --> 00:42:28.260
avenues in my life have prepared me for anything.

00:42:28.860 --> 00:42:31.940
And I can't remember who a mentor of mine or

00:42:31.940 --> 00:42:34.480
a friend or a coach, somebody told me, they're

00:42:34.480 --> 00:42:35.960
like, you're going to fail a lot in life, but

00:42:35.960 --> 00:42:39.239
if you can help it fail quickly, learn what you

00:42:39.239 --> 00:42:43.219
can learn. and uh and bring value to the to the

00:42:43.219 --> 00:42:45.699
very next thing and i was devastated you know

00:42:45.699 --> 00:42:48.659
at that time of my life uh like like i said i

00:42:48.659 --> 00:42:50.820
had it all planned out you know and when you

00:42:50.820 --> 00:42:55.139
make plans god laughs at you but um but i think

00:42:55.139 --> 00:43:00.119
i i just i had a solid foundation of this kind

00:43:00.119 --> 00:43:04.019
of cat like you will land on your feet you've

00:43:04.019 --> 00:43:06.800
got a lot to offer if you just keep putting your

00:43:06.800 --> 00:43:09.769
best foot forward you're not what you do you

00:43:09.769 --> 00:43:12.750
are you and then what you do will fall into place

00:43:12.750 --> 00:43:18.150
just just shine through who you are and um and

00:43:18.150 --> 00:43:20.610
thankfully that's that's the perspective i i

00:43:20.610 --> 00:43:23.730
kept and um i knew that it would be a long road

00:43:23.730 --> 00:43:26.630
and and i just i just went after it like i i

00:43:26.630 --> 00:43:28.389
tried to do with everything else as soon as i

00:43:28.389 --> 00:43:30.210
got into the sheriff's the sheriff's department

00:43:30.210 --> 00:43:34.010
i anybody that i could talk to that knew somebody

00:43:34.010 --> 00:43:35.809
at aviation or could get me in the hangar door

00:43:35.809 --> 00:43:38.599
where i could shake hands and say hello and and

00:43:38.599 --> 00:43:42.199
showcase my skill set. We have a rescue diver

00:43:42.199 --> 00:43:45.400
program. I wanted all the things in my life.

00:43:45.619 --> 00:43:47.219
I didn't know how they were all going to tie

00:43:47.219 --> 00:43:50.420
together. The background with wildlife and being

00:43:50.420 --> 00:43:53.139
in the water since I was little, I wanted that

00:43:53.139 --> 00:43:54.579
to be a part of my career. I didn't know how

00:43:54.579 --> 00:43:56.719
that was going to work in aviation, but all of

00:43:56.719 --> 00:43:58.480
a sudden I walk into a department that has a

00:43:58.480 --> 00:44:01.139
rescue swimmer program and does overland rescue

00:44:01.139 --> 00:44:04.920
out in the Everglades where there's hogs and

00:44:04.920 --> 00:44:09.400
panthers and alligators. And offshore Gulf Coast

00:44:09.400 --> 00:44:11.679
of Jupiter is the sharkiest spot in the state

00:44:11.679 --> 00:44:14.480
of Florida. It all just tied together. And once

00:44:14.480 --> 00:44:16.480
I got to know people and tell them my background,

00:44:16.800 --> 00:44:20.139
things just kind of gelled. And it was a natural

00:44:20.139 --> 00:44:23.300
fit, which was a huge relief. Just kind of a

00:44:23.300 --> 00:44:27.340
payoff of that thought process I had that it'll

00:44:27.340 --> 00:44:31.099
work out. Just keep being you. And that's what

00:44:31.099 --> 00:44:33.400
I just tried to follow through with. I love that.

00:44:33.480 --> 00:44:36.739
I've said this a lot. The mission. that takes

00:44:36.739 --> 00:44:40.159
us into firefighting for example isn't to wear

00:44:40.159 --> 00:44:42.639
a uniform and have a shiny badge and take selfies

00:44:42.639 --> 00:44:44.699
with your leather helmet it's to help people

00:44:44.699 --> 00:44:48.179
yeah and so if you were a good person you wanted

00:44:48.179 --> 00:44:50.860
to help people before and you go through a profession

00:44:50.860 --> 00:44:53.920
and for whatever reason the uniform is taken

00:44:53.920 --> 00:44:56.599
for you one day the mission has never changed

00:44:56.599 --> 00:44:59.610
just your costume it's like halloween You don't

00:44:59.610 --> 00:45:03.389
need a mustache to be a brave person. And then

00:45:03.389 --> 00:45:05.429
figure out, okay, well, then what is the next

00:45:05.429 --> 00:45:08.250
thing? How can I help continue this mission to

00:45:08.250 --> 00:45:10.389
help people make the world better? And in my

00:45:10.389 --> 00:45:14.789
case, there's nothing that strokes my ego less

00:45:14.789 --> 00:45:17.409
than being someone who sits in front of a microphone

00:45:17.409 --> 00:45:20.570
for a profession now. There is no topless podcast

00:45:20.570 --> 00:45:23.309
or calendar going around. The house waves are

00:45:23.309 --> 00:45:26.599
getting... you know crazy about so from the ego

00:45:26.599 --> 00:45:29.519
point of view this is like absolutely zero but

00:45:29.519 --> 00:45:32.679
the mission is exactly the same is the same so

00:45:32.679 --> 00:45:34.659
so yeah that was very kind of you know healing

00:45:34.659 --> 00:45:37.500
for me it's like let that go the kind of image

00:45:37.500 --> 00:45:40.760
of the you know the alpha rescuer because you

00:45:40.760 --> 00:45:43.219
did that being there done that politicia loved

00:45:43.219 --> 00:45:45.960
it but life kicked me out the door for a different

00:45:45.960 --> 00:45:47.880
reason and said right go help the people in the

00:45:47.880 --> 00:45:51.199
uniform and the mission continues oh fantastic

00:45:51.199 --> 00:45:54.550
man yeah that's awesome yeah but i could have

00:45:54.550 --> 00:45:57.289
said it i think it's a good thing for people

00:45:57.289 --> 00:45:58.690
to think about because it's underlying what you

00:45:58.690 --> 00:46:00.869
said i'm just you know piggybacking on that because

00:46:00.869 --> 00:46:03.190
you said it beautifully which is you know if

00:46:03.190 --> 00:46:06.530
you have this this desire to do this thing the

00:46:06.530 --> 00:46:08.989
actual kind of operational elements will come

00:46:08.989 --> 00:46:12.550
together but you were always that selfless servant

00:46:12.550 --> 00:46:15.949
and you know don't let the the injury the retirement

00:46:15.949 --> 00:46:19.260
the termination whatever it is make you think

00:46:19.260 --> 00:46:21.179
that you're not that anymore. You've always been

00:46:21.179 --> 00:46:23.159
that before you put the uniform and you will

00:46:23.159 --> 00:46:27.099
after. Yeah, absolutely. All right. Well then

00:46:27.099 --> 00:46:29.659
talk to me about what it looks like from someone

00:46:29.659 --> 00:46:32.699
who's trying to get into law enforcement aviation,

00:46:33.219 --> 00:46:35.920
the kind of training on ramp, and then let's

00:46:35.920 --> 00:46:37.940
kind of unpack all the different areas that you

00:46:37.940 --> 00:46:44.800
do now. Yeah. So getting into the nice thing

00:46:44.800 --> 00:46:46.780
about like the military is the numbers are big,

00:46:46.840 --> 00:46:49.869
right? So numbers are big chances are big once

00:46:49.869 --> 00:46:51.630
you start getting into smaller departments you

00:46:51.630 --> 00:46:54.269
really gotta if if someone is interested in chasing

00:46:54.269 --> 00:46:58.530
that down you you gotta be flexible uh i'm very

00:46:58.530 --> 00:47:02.110
fortunate and it's this was just the stars aligning

00:47:02.110 --> 00:47:05.210
in some parts of my life like in my past military

00:47:05.210 --> 00:47:07.909
stars didn't align but here literally being in

00:47:07.909 --> 00:47:11.369
my backyard and having a unit that was this large

00:47:11.369 --> 00:47:14.699
with this different many mission sets um fit

00:47:14.699 --> 00:47:18.059
perfectly but for the most part departments are

00:47:18.059 --> 00:47:20.960
small when people get into this unit they typically

00:47:20.960 --> 00:47:24.739
retire in this unit um because of the training

00:47:24.739 --> 00:47:27.119
that's involved right i mean a dedication to

00:47:27.119 --> 00:47:31.380
learning i think i mean i don't know what the

00:47:31.380 --> 00:47:34.639
hour mark is but aviation has been compared to

00:47:34.639 --> 00:47:37.239
a doctorate in some way as far as you know your

00:47:37.239 --> 00:47:42.000
weather um engineering whatever it may be as

00:47:42.000 --> 00:47:45.179
far as physics and aerodynamics, you learn a

00:47:45.179 --> 00:47:47.380
lot about a lot, not just a little about a lot.

00:47:47.579 --> 00:47:51.360
So that is definitely a commitment. So people

00:47:51.360 --> 00:47:54.079
stay here and they don't move on until they retire

00:47:54.079 --> 00:47:57.539
so that your opportunities to get into an aviation

00:47:57.539 --> 00:47:59.980
unit, especially in smaller law enforcement departments,

00:48:00.320 --> 00:48:02.760
they are few and far between. So it's something

00:48:02.760 --> 00:48:06.360
that if you're committed to it, you've got to.

00:48:07.340 --> 00:48:09.920
A, it helps to obviously go get ratings on your

00:48:09.920 --> 00:48:12.739
own. Some agencies will pay for it. Some will

00:48:12.739 --> 00:48:16.460
not. It always, just like in anything else, anytime

00:48:16.460 --> 00:48:17.980
you're going in for an interview and you're going

00:48:17.980 --> 00:48:19.539
to put something on your resume, you can already

00:48:19.539 --> 00:48:22.860
say that you've made the effort to start learning

00:48:22.860 --> 00:48:26.099
this skill and learning this craft. You're above

00:48:26.099 --> 00:48:28.800
the competition for the most part. Anybody that's

00:48:28.800 --> 00:48:31.739
a go -getter, you're going to go try and do as

00:48:31.739 --> 00:48:33.480
much homework as you can prior to taking the

00:48:33.480 --> 00:48:36.849
test. And that's something I did. Coming into

00:48:36.849 --> 00:48:38.989
the unit with ratings and then switching over

00:48:38.989 --> 00:48:44.630
to the helicopter side, our unit and agency pushed

00:48:44.630 --> 00:48:47.630
that training through. And that was a couple

00:48:47.630 --> 00:48:49.449
of year process for me to get schooled up on

00:48:49.449 --> 00:48:52.369
helicopters, which now I can't live without them.

00:48:52.389 --> 00:48:53.909
Thought I was always an airplane guy. And then

00:48:53.909 --> 00:48:55.710
you make the switch and you're like, man, life's

00:48:55.710 --> 00:49:00.429
better going backwards. But yeah, it was moving

00:49:00.429 --> 00:49:03.750
on from that, you know, getting the opportunity.

00:49:04.570 --> 00:49:07.070
and then uh kind of talking about what we do

00:49:07.070 --> 00:49:10.889
as a unit here we have a very very unique and

00:49:10.889 --> 00:49:14.210
diverse mission set because palm beach county

00:49:14.210 --> 00:49:16.329
is huge and we've got the everglades on one side

00:49:16.329 --> 00:49:17.909
we've got the gulf stream coast on the other

00:49:17.909 --> 00:49:22.730
and as far as our support um offshore there's

00:49:22.730 --> 00:49:24.409
a coast guard station in jacksonville and there's

00:49:24.409 --> 00:49:27.150
a coast guard station with uh in miami that has

00:49:27.150 --> 00:49:30.690
air division capabilities but both of those assets

00:49:30.690 --> 00:49:34.219
are an hour to an hour and a half away. So we

00:49:34.219 --> 00:49:36.699
take on, with the inlets that we have here and

00:49:36.699 --> 00:49:38.559
the seas that we have here and the water out

00:49:38.559 --> 00:49:40.860
west in the Everglades, lakes and ponds and rivers

00:49:40.860 --> 00:49:47.760
and canals, we're equipped with the devices and

00:49:47.760 --> 00:49:51.360
training to answer those calls before it even

00:49:51.360 --> 00:49:54.800
needs to get to that federal government level,

00:49:55.019 --> 00:49:59.260
Department of Defense. So we chase bad guys all

00:49:59.260 --> 00:50:04.360
day. Offshore rescue, inshore rescue, all the

00:50:04.360 --> 00:50:06.559
work that we do with specialty units, SWAT, whether

00:50:06.559 --> 00:50:14.039
that's insertion into hot zone areas, high -altitude

00:50:14.039 --> 00:50:18.159
surveillance. And then we also have a big commitment

00:50:18.159 --> 00:50:21.400
to a VIP that lives in the area. The president

00:50:21.400 --> 00:50:23.739
lives right down the street. We're also involved

00:50:23.739 --> 00:50:26.519
in his safety and security of the motorcade as

00:50:26.519 --> 00:50:28.940
well. So we have dignitary responsibilities here.

00:50:29.559 --> 00:50:34.380
It's an extremely unique unit. Really, the only

00:50:34.380 --> 00:50:38.480
thing we don't do is fight fires, but we do a

00:50:38.480 --> 00:50:41.579
lot. And to exist here in this unit, you kind

00:50:41.579 --> 00:50:45.800
of have to be a Swiss Army knife and then take

00:50:45.800 --> 00:50:48.280
on the responsibility of being good at all of

00:50:48.280 --> 00:50:50.719
it because this is a dangerous business, and

00:50:50.719 --> 00:50:54.519
aviation is wonderful but is very unforgiving.

00:50:55.920 --> 00:50:57.679
It's something that you have to dedicate the

00:50:57.679 --> 00:51:00.760
time and craft to if you want to have a long

00:51:00.760 --> 00:51:04.519
career. Speaking of it being dangerous, we've

00:51:04.519 --> 00:51:07.039
obviously had numerous tragedies in helicopters.

00:51:07.300 --> 00:51:09.500
I was just actually speaking to one of the DC

00:51:09.500 --> 00:51:11.579
chiefs who's coming on the show, and he's going

00:51:11.579 --> 00:51:14.039
to talk about that tragedy as well and the response

00:51:14.039 --> 00:51:16.619
to that tragedy more to the point. But I've had

00:51:16.619 --> 00:51:18.800
several other helicopter pilots on the show,

00:51:18.900 --> 00:51:23.260
and one of my friends, Dave, flew with Prince

00:51:23.260 --> 00:51:25.889
William. get that right yes prince william um

00:51:25.889 --> 00:51:28.289
back in the day and they had some crazy near

00:51:28.289 --> 00:51:30.050
misses and white outs and all kinds of stuff

00:51:30.050 --> 00:51:36.190
yeah um talk to me overall like are we is is

00:51:36.190 --> 00:51:41.599
this profession being um broken down by budget

00:51:41.599 --> 00:51:43.679
cuts and is that making it more dangerous for

00:51:43.679 --> 00:51:46.460
some of these agencies is it just happened that

00:51:46.460 --> 00:51:48.579
a few of them happened in the cluster what are

00:51:48.579 --> 00:51:50.539
you seeing with this obviously far more educated

00:51:50.539 --> 00:51:53.559
lens that i have as far as some of these recent

00:51:53.559 --> 00:51:56.739
tragedies we had in law enforcement ems and the

00:51:56.739 --> 00:51:59.559
military yeah well i think that i think the the

00:51:59.559 --> 00:52:02.360
achilles heel of any you know first responder

00:52:02.360 --> 00:52:06.119
profession is to do more with less That's kind

00:52:06.119 --> 00:52:08.860
of, you know, you have people that we naturally

00:52:08.860 --> 00:52:11.039
take on that responsibility. But culturally,

00:52:11.280 --> 00:52:14.119
that's always kind of the, hey, you know, this

00:52:14.119 --> 00:52:17.619
is the budget, do more with less. And that's

00:52:17.619 --> 00:52:21.840
just a byproduct of the industry. And it's something

00:52:21.840 --> 00:52:25.599
that I think we could get away with 10, 15 years

00:52:25.599 --> 00:52:30.139
ago. But with the demand for flight time, the

00:52:30.139 --> 00:52:33.550
demand for the support. especially in areas like

00:52:33.550 --> 00:52:36.469
this that are growing year after year after year

00:52:36.469 --> 00:52:39.530
and call volume is going up year after year after

00:52:39.530 --> 00:52:44.190
year, we always lag behind what the actual operational

00:52:44.190 --> 00:52:47.750
necessity is. We try and get by with whatever

00:52:47.750 --> 00:52:53.050
makes the budget work as is. And that's certainly

00:52:53.050 --> 00:52:56.309
a professional consideration that we need to,

00:52:56.349 --> 00:52:58.730
if we're serious about not only taking care of

00:52:58.730 --> 00:53:01.590
the public, but taking care of the people. that

00:53:01.590 --> 00:53:04.449
put the shield on or put the badge on that's

00:53:04.449 --> 00:53:06.610
something that we would we probably do need to

00:53:06.610 --> 00:53:09.849
have a more realistic conversation about we're

00:53:09.849 --> 00:53:12.429
flying days we're flying nights we're swapping

00:53:12.429 --> 00:53:15.369
back and forth between schedules um and there's

00:53:15.369 --> 00:53:18.570
nothing scarier than lifting off the ground at

00:53:18.570 --> 00:53:21.329
four in the morning and you're hovering in a

00:53:21.329 --> 00:53:24.550
helicopter and that's when you wake up you know

00:53:24.550 --> 00:53:28.090
that's that's when you come to that oh oh i'm

00:53:28.090 --> 00:53:30.840
flying you know, a multimillion dollar aircraft.

00:53:30.920 --> 00:53:34.860
And you get what I'm trying to say. It's, yeah,

00:53:34.960 --> 00:53:37.460
it's a conversation that, that certainly, I mean,

00:53:37.460 --> 00:53:39.380
there's more, there's more planes, there's more

00:53:39.380 --> 00:53:41.760
helicopters in the sky than ever before. And

00:53:41.760 --> 00:53:44.000
every single day that we would sit down and have

00:53:44.000 --> 00:53:46.380
this interview, I'd be saying that again, and

00:53:46.380 --> 00:53:48.719
it would be true. The number will just continue

00:53:48.719 --> 00:53:52.239
to grow. But the policies and the regulations

00:53:52.239 --> 00:53:56.199
will always lag behind. But the, the growth is

00:53:56.199 --> 00:53:59.469
just exploding in some areas. And we're not keeping

00:53:59.469 --> 00:54:03.750
up. As you sit there now, Palm Beach County is

00:54:03.750 --> 00:54:07.130
in the transition to the 24 -72 firefighter work

00:54:07.130 --> 00:54:09.309
week, which is phenomenal. And I hope that one

00:54:09.309 --> 00:54:12.769
of the residents, Donald, will go, oh, well,

00:54:12.829 --> 00:54:14.550
if my firefighters have this, maybe the whole

00:54:14.550 --> 00:54:16.710
country should have it. So if he hears this,

00:54:16.750 --> 00:54:18.449
I'm just sowing that seed now if we're going

00:54:18.449 --> 00:54:20.889
to really. We help the first responder professions

00:54:20.889 --> 00:54:25.750
manifest it. But that being said, you know, there

00:54:25.750 --> 00:54:27.869
really aren't any checks and balances when it

00:54:27.869 --> 00:54:32.050
comes to sleep in fire and EMS especially. What

00:54:32.050 --> 00:54:34.690
are the stipulations, the barriers when it comes

00:54:34.690 --> 00:54:41.090
to the aviation side? We have kind of our set

00:54:41.090 --> 00:54:45.110
of rules within our department that limits flight

00:54:45.110 --> 00:54:48.480
time. We do have, we are very lucky here. We

00:54:48.480 --> 00:54:53.159
have a phenomenal command staff that if we're

00:54:53.159 --> 00:54:56.539
burned out, because a lot of people don't realize,

00:54:56.659 --> 00:55:01.340
I mean, flying dynamically, it's one thing to

00:55:01.340 --> 00:55:03.559
pick up, go from point A to point B and set down.

00:55:03.780 --> 00:55:08.920
But dynamically at night. over zero light conditions

00:55:08.920 --> 00:55:11.340
over the ocean or the Everglades where you literally

00:55:11.340 --> 00:55:13.639
can't tell the horizon line from the ground.

00:55:14.239 --> 00:55:16.659
You're inside the helicopter. You're looking

00:55:16.659 --> 00:55:19.119
inside instrumentation. You're outside. You're

00:55:19.119 --> 00:55:22.599
on NVGs, this constant scan. You're looking over

00:55:22.599 --> 00:55:25.639
your shoulder. kind of peek in to make sure that

00:55:25.639 --> 00:55:27.880
your camera angle and the way you've oriented

00:55:27.880 --> 00:55:30.800
the aircraft is on par with what your camera

00:55:30.800 --> 00:55:33.159
operator needs to keep eyes on a suspect to make

00:55:33.159 --> 00:55:35.320
a call work or else it's all a wasted effort.

00:55:38.280 --> 00:55:40.780
Not to mention you've got micro vibrations for

00:55:40.780 --> 00:55:42.739
an hour and a half, two hours that are just as

00:55:42.739 --> 00:55:45.679
you're sitting there, tiny, but an hour and a

00:55:45.679 --> 00:55:49.380
half of this just, you know, shuddering the entire

00:55:49.380 --> 00:55:52.030
time will wear you out. Our command staff is

00:55:52.030 --> 00:55:55.650
phenomenal. If we are burnt, we can pick up a

00:55:55.650 --> 00:55:58.849
phone at any time of night, any time in the morning

00:55:58.849 --> 00:56:01.530
and say, hey, you got to bring somebody in. Now,

00:56:01.650 --> 00:56:04.269
like I was saying earlier, culturally, would

00:56:04.269 --> 00:56:07.510
we ever do that? I'd like to say we would, but

00:56:07.510 --> 00:56:13.389
we won't. It's just chug a Red Bull and hard

00:56:13.389 --> 00:56:17.289
press on. That's the reality of it. But we do

00:56:17.289 --> 00:56:19.639
have limitations. Five hours flight time at night,

00:56:19.760 --> 00:56:21.840
anything starts to scratch close to that, we

00:56:21.840 --> 00:56:24.699
need to make phone calls and make sure that a

00:56:24.699 --> 00:56:27.300
fresh crew comes in so that we're keeping ourselves

00:56:27.300 --> 00:56:30.360
safe. But more importantly, we're not flying

00:56:30.360 --> 00:56:32.619
over the middle of nowhere half the time. We're

00:56:32.619 --> 00:56:34.760
over high populated areas. So the public safety

00:56:34.760 --> 00:56:38.059
is a part of our diagnosis and briefing as to

00:56:38.059 --> 00:56:39.940
whether or not we should be flying or not. So

00:56:39.940 --> 00:56:42.920
that's always a main point. Is there a national

00:56:42.920 --> 00:56:49.659
industry standard as well? No. No. The airline

00:56:49.659 --> 00:56:51.960
guys and their unions have stuff pretty dialed

00:56:51.960 --> 00:56:55.579
in. They got it going pretty good. But as far

00:56:55.579 --> 00:56:58.699
as law enforcement in general or any type of

00:56:58.699 --> 00:57:00.619
mission set specific to us, it all just comes

00:57:00.619 --> 00:57:03.280
down to individual agencies and what they adopt.

00:57:03.860 --> 00:57:06.119
But for the most part, they do listen to their

00:57:06.119 --> 00:57:09.400
pilots. So it's not necessarily an uphill battle.

00:57:09.519 --> 00:57:11.719
Again, it's a culture battle of will you get

00:57:11.719 --> 00:57:15.300
a pilot to say that he needs help? Maybe you

00:57:15.300 --> 00:57:18.550
do, maybe you don't. Absolutely. Well, you mentioned

00:57:18.550 --> 00:57:20.409
the rescue swimmer side as well. And I always

00:57:20.409 --> 00:57:24.010
said, if this is, this would entail me actually

00:57:24.010 --> 00:57:26.070
passing the selection, but if I was going to

00:57:26.070 --> 00:57:28.090
enter a branch of the special forces, special

00:57:28.090 --> 00:57:30.869
operations, the PJs would be the one. I think

00:57:30.869 --> 00:57:32.710
that's the one that closely replicates the fire

00:57:32.710 --> 00:57:35.550
service. And I've always loved water myself.

00:57:35.590 --> 00:57:37.710
I was a lifeguard for a long time. Doesn't mean

00:57:37.710 --> 00:57:39.269
I would have passed, but that was what I would

00:57:39.269 --> 00:57:42.329
have tried to pass. You would have passed. But

00:57:42.329 --> 00:57:45.269
that being said, it's such an admirable profession,

00:57:45.489 --> 00:57:47.989
especially some of the conditions that some of

00:57:47.989 --> 00:57:50.690
these men and women are in, affecting these rescues.

00:57:50.750 --> 00:57:52.929
So talk to me about that side, because not only

00:57:52.929 --> 00:57:55.409
have you got the aquatic nature, as you mentioned

00:57:55.409 --> 00:57:58.730
before, you've got apex predators within that

00:57:58.730 --> 00:58:04.110
aquatic nature. So it's quite a danger upon danger

00:58:04.110 --> 00:58:06.230
element to facilitate some of these rescues.

00:58:06.829 --> 00:58:10.800
Yeah. Well, I think for me, One of the biggest

00:58:10.800 --> 00:58:12.980
things that I've seen as somebody that runs our

00:58:12.980 --> 00:58:17.820
rescue swimmer program, the physical attributes

00:58:17.820 --> 00:58:20.800
have to be there. Obviously, we do a swim test

00:58:20.800 --> 00:58:23.579
very, very similar to the Coast Guards that absolutely

00:58:23.579 --> 00:58:26.059
smokes you, something that you have to stay current

00:58:26.059 --> 00:58:31.519
on. But there is something to be said about just

00:58:31.519 --> 00:58:35.610
being comfortable in the water. Because it is

00:58:35.610 --> 00:58:40.090
a very, very lonely business when you leave that

00:58:40.090 --> 00:58:43.510
safety blanket of the aircraft and it's you and

00:58:43.510 --> 00:58:45.469
what you're wearing. And those are the tools

00:58:45.469 --> 00:58:47.469
that you have. Those are the tools that you have

00:58:47.469 --> 00:58:49.030
to deal with whatever's going on in the water.

00:58:49.130 --> 00:58:50.489
Those are the tools that you have to deal with

00:58:50.489 --> 00:58:54.190
the victim and get yourself back into the aircraft,

00:58:54.409 --> 00:58:56.969
which there's always possibility that if you

00:58:56.969 --> 00:59:00.860
get out. Maybe the seas keep pitching and rolling.

00:59:00.900 --> 00:59:03.500
Maybe you don't get back in. So I think one of

00:59:03.500 --> 00:59:06.500
the biggest things that I look for and the biggest

00:59:06.500 --> 00:59:10.679
blessings for me is just there's not much water

00:59:10.679 --> 00:59:13.440
that you can put me in. Now, we're very lucky.

00:59:13.519 --> 00:59:15.239
I'm not in the Bering Sea. I'm not in Alaska.

00:59:16.500 --> 00:59:20.239
I'm in warm tropical waters. But I'm comfortable

00:59:20.239 --> 00:59:23.219
in it all. I'm comfortable in black water. We've

00:59:23.219 --> 00:59:26.119
had calls in the Everglades where it's a foot

00:59:26.119 --> 00:59:29.159
and a half of visibility. question somebody asked

00:59:29.159 --> 00:59:31.440
you before you get out of the aircraft is there's

00:59:31.440 --> 00:59:33.780
three alligators are you comfortable you know

00:59:33.780 --> 00:59:36.199
and first it's not the same answer for everybody

00:59:36.199 --> 00:59:38.059
i've just been fortunate enough to have that

00:59:38.059 --> 00:59:41.519
experience um and i feel like i've got it under

00:59:41.519 --> 00:59:44.659
control so that's that's one of the biggest things

00:59:44.659 --> 00:59:47.679
is i think that that element of somebody just

00:59:47.679 --> 00:59:50.719
being comfortable completely alone completely

00:59:50.719 --> 00:59:52.940
by yourselves where the only backup that you

00:59:52.940 --> 00:59:55.820
have are people that can just watch you And just

00:59:55.820 --> 00:59:58.119
make sure that you pop back up or that you safety

00:59:58.119 --> 01:00:00.239
signal. And that's all they can really do for

01:00:00.239 --> 01:00:05.460
you. So that's a huge part of just being successful,

01:00:05.619 --> 01:00:08.900
I think, is being able to keep your body, your

01:00:08.900 --> 01:00:11.579
heart rate, your mind from just racing in these

01:00:11.579 --> 01:00:14.880
scenarios where you're very much alone. You mentioned

01:00:14.880 --> 01:00:17.179
having to stay current on swimming. How many

01:00:17.179 --> 01:00:23.559
years? Oh, as far as like what the... Recertifying.

01:00:24.360 --> 01:00:26.679
Oh yeah. It's, it's every year. And we train,

01:00:26.840 --> 01:00:31.559
I mean, we, we train twice a month. Rescue swimmers

01:00:31.559 --> 01:00:33.820
get together and we, we go through our paces.

01:00:34.559 --> 01:00:37.280
But the yearly, and those, if you can make it

01:00:37.280 --> 01:00:39.619
through our, our, our, you know, get together

01:00:39.619 --> 01:00:42.440
swims, you'll be fine for the test. But yeah,

01:00:42.539 --> 01:00:44.679
yearly we go back through and everybody's got

01:00:44.679 --> 01:00:47.260
a recall. So, cause I've always, I've, I've said

01:00:47.260 --> 01:00:49.340
this recently, one of my lifeguard friends a

01:00:49.340 --> 01:00:52.280
while ago now. kind of just reminded me that

01:00:52.280 --> 01:00:55.099
we have these annual tests or every two years

01:00:55.099 --> 01:00:58.059
in some some organizations there's a lifeguard

01:00:58.059 --> 01:01:00.760
you if you can't pass a test after a year two

01:01:00.760 --> 01:01:02.619
years you just you're not a lifeguard anymore

01:01:02.619 --> 01:01:06.380
with this you know this um bar that you're held

01:01:06.380 --> 01:01:08.440
to even though you know you're on the pilot side

01:01:08.440 --> 01:01:12.400
as well what is your perspective of law enforcement

01:01:12.400 --> 01:01:15.460
and fire resisting any fitness standards whatsoever

01:01:16.780 --> 01:01:20.139
Oh, man, that's a hard one. It's an interesting

01:01:20.139 --> 01:01:24.159
question because Drew, who was our introduction

01:01:24.159 --> 01:01:27.500
and a phenomenal Army pilot and now flies reserves

01:01:27.500 --> 01:01:29.239
for the Air Force, I've had this conversation

01:01:29.239 --> 01:01:33.159
with him a ton of times. We've talked about the

01:01:33.159 --> 01:01:38.059
challenges of doing this in the EMS and law enforcement

01:01:38.059 --> 01:01:41.699
world where not only are you held to a very high

01:01:41.699 --> 01:01:45.059
standard, but you go back to life every single

01:01:45.059 --> 01:01:49.949
day. You're not on a deployment where it's mission,

01:01:50.050 --> 01:01:52.150
mission, mission, mission, tune up for the mission,

01:01:52.250 --> 01:01:54.349
complete the mission, and then you get to come

01:01:54.349 --> 01:01:57.090
home. And it's just different, just different

01:01:57.090 --> 01:02:02.250
challenges. It's very hard, speaking honestly,

01:02:02.469 --> 01:02:10.010
to find guys and women that can keep it all together,

01:02:10.210 --> 01:02:14.130
keep the family life, keep... keep their physical

01:02:14.130 --> 01:02:18.030
fitness, keep their mental fitness all in shape.

01:02:18.389 --> 01:02:21.769
And it presents some serious challenges. I think

01:02:21.769 --> 01:02:23.530
that the resistance that you're talking about

01:02:23.530 --> 01:02:29.010
comes to just a simple level of fatigue that

01:02:29.010 --> 01:02:32.829
comes from trying to keep all level, you know,

01:02:32.829 --> 01:02:36.889
six plates in your life that are all at. you

01:02:36.889 --> 01:02:39.250
know danger's edge or or have huge implications

01:02:39.250 --> 01:02:41.869
on your life and the quality of life spinning

01:02:41.869 --> 01:02:43.929
at the same time and spinning at the same speed

01:02:43.929 --> 01:02:47.010
so it's and i know that and then you're going

01:02:47.010 --> 01:02:49.489
to have your you know your your feet draggers

01:02:49.489 --> 01:02:51.690
that just they're going to complain because they're

01:02:51.690 --> 01:02:55.230
going to complain but what we face in our side

01:02:55.230 --> 01:02:58.429
of things because we do get go -getters is that

01:02:58.429 --> 01:03:01.250
even with go -getters, it's just hard. It's just

01:03:01.250 --> 01:03:02.809
a different nature of the beast where you've

01:03:02.809 --> 01:03:04.590
got to do a lot and you've got to be good at

01:03:04.590 --> 01:03:07.349
a lot and you've got to keep your standards where

01:03:07.349 --> 01:03:11.010
your standards are going to be. And life changes.

01:03:11.590 --> 01:03:14.869
What worked for a guy before he was married or

01:03:14.869 --> 01:03:16.809
when he was in a relationship or now he's got

01:03:16.809 --> 01:03:20.750
kids, hey, no harm, no foul. Give me your vest.

01:03:21.480 --> 01:03:23.980
You know, figure it out. Job's still here if

01:03:23.980 --> 01:03:26.739
you want it. And if you can resubmit that same

01:03:26.739 --> 01:03:29.699
level of commitment, then it's here. But we're

01:03:29.699 --> 01:03:31.039
going to keep the standard what the standard

01:03:31.039 --> 01:03:33.300
is. And if that means you've got to come and

01:03:33.300 --> 01:03:35.780
go and come and go, then we'll figure it out

01:03:35.780 --> 01:03:38.559
because we need the bodies. But, you know, we're

01:03:38.559 --> 01:03:43.059
not going to drop our standard. You know, it's

01:03:43.059 --> 01:03:45.699
just we can't do that to the public. Yeah. And

01:03:45.699 --> 01:03:47.480
this is how I feel about police and obviously

01:03:47.480 --> 01:03:49.820
fire, especially as my profession, fire and EMS.

01:03:50.719 --> 01:03:53.099
um but you're right this is this is where i'm

01:03:53.099 --> 01:03:56.360
always trying to be very um universal in the

01:03:56.360 --> 01:03:58.780
way i look at this ownership is part of it of

01:03:58.780 --> 01:04:01.260
course but what is ownership from it's it's your

01:04:01.260 --> 01:04:03.940
entire life up to that point You grew up working

01:04:03.940 --> 01:04:06.300
on farms. I grew up on a farm. So there's a different

01:04:06.300 --> 01:04:08.659
level of understanding of work ethic and movement

01:04:08.659 --> 01:04:11.260
and, you know, the importance of nature and understanding

01:04:11.260 --> 01:04:13.460
where food actually comes from that all factor

01:04:13.460 --> 01:04:16.840
into these good decisions later. But absolutely,

01:04:17.099 --> 01:04:19.460
I could not agree more, which is why I fight

01:04:19.460 --> 01:04:21.559
so hard for the work week and the fire service.

01:04:21.840 --> 01:04:23.860
At the moment, when you've got people working

01:04:23.860 --> 01:04:28.000
56, 80 plus hour weeks, how can you then ask

01:04:28.000 --> 01:04:29.940
them to maintain a standard? They should maintain

01:04:29.940 --> 01:04:32.559
a standard. but you haven't given them an environment

01:04:32.559 --> 01:04:35.480
to maintain a standard. With what left in the

01:04:35.480 --> 01:04:37.380
tank are they supposed to maintain the standard?

01:04:37.480 --> 01:04:40.780
Exactly. So this is what's exciting now. Alongside,

01:04:40.780 --> 01:04:44.079
hey, we're giving you a 42 -hour work week, there

01:04:44.079 --> 01:04:46.199
should now start to be in these departments that

01:04:46.199 --> 01:04:48.739
are going that way, the conversation about, right,

01:04:48.780 --> 01:04:50.820
now we need to put in a fitness standard. Now

01:04:50.820 --> 01:04:52.719
that we've actually created an environment that

01:04:52.719 --> 01:04:55.940
does forge performance and longevity, and we've

01:04:55.940 --> 01:04:57.699
put you back in your family where you're supposed

01:04:57.699 --> 01:05:00.619
to be. which is so important, which then heals

01:05:00.619 --> 01:05:02.500
that element. Now your sleep is better. Now your

01:05:02.500 --> 01:05:04.639
testosterone is better. Now your body composition

01:05:04.639 --> 01:05:07.239
is better. Now let's hold you back to where you

01:05:07.239 --> 01:05:09.619
were in the fire academy. Because I don't understand

01:05:09.619 --> 01:05:11.519
people saying it's not fair with the standard

01:05:11.519 --> 01:05:14.769
itself. It's like that's literally... what you

01:05:14.769 --> 01:05:16.949
were told you had to do to become a firefighter

01:05:16.949 --> 01:05:19.309
so don't come at me with that bullshit same with

01:05:19.309 --> 01:05:22.170
the place you know but so when we fix the environment

01:05:22.170 --> 01:05:24.409
this is the thing it's it's a win -win because

01:05:24.409 --> 01:05:27.289
then you bring in a fitness standard now the

01:05:27.289 --> 01:05:29.510
performances are a high level and the longevity

01:05:29.510 --> 01:05:32.730
of the first responder now you know becomes so

01:05:32.730 --> 01:05:35.510
much greater and so it you know no one can say

01:05:35.510 --> 01:05:38.329
there's any downside there isn't a downside but

01:05:38.329 --> 01:05:40.409
we have to find our way back there but so like

01:05:40.409 --> 01:05:42.429
you said to demand it without changing the work

01:05:42.429 --> 01:05:45.849
week is not going to work. And to change the

01:05:45.849 --> 01:05:47.710
work week without demanding a fitness standard

01:05:47.710 --> 01:05:50.449
is not going to work. So yeah, it's got to be

01:05:50.449 --> 01:05:52.769
together. Two punch combo. It's got to be one.

01:05:52.849 --> 01:05:54.969
Yeah, they got to be both at the same time. Yeah,

01:05:55.030 --> 01:05:57.250
absolutely. All right. Well, you touched on the

01:05:57.250 --> 01:06:00.849
SWAT side too. So what are some of the notable

01:06:00.849 --> 01:06:04.070
calls where the skill set that you and your crew

01:06:04.070 --> 01:06:07.289
had facilitated an arrest or stopping something

01:06:07.289 --> 01:06:12.079
horrible happening to someone? I'll tell you

01:06:12.079 --> 01:06:15.380
one off the top of my head. They had a they had

01:06:15.380 --> 01:06:20.559
a suspect that was fleeing. And in any cityscape,

01:06:20.639 --> 01:06:23.039
you start to run into those those streets and

01:06:23.039 --> 01:06:26.159
names and lanes where it's first street, first

01:06:26.159 --> 01:06:29.840
avenue, first place. And nobody know there's

01:06:29.840 --> 01:06:31.980
no you couldn't figure out with an Atlas and

01:06:31.980 --> 01:06:35.719
a GPS iPhone where you are. And when you're running

01:06:35.719 --> 01:06:39.260
after somebody, you know, a violent suspect.

01:06:39.920 --> 01:06:43.460
It just, it convolutes the question even more.

01:06:43.820 --> 01:06:47.280
That day I was flying with one of our most skilled

01:06:47.280 --> 01:06:48.900
pilots in the unit. I was actually operating

01:06:48.900 --> 01:06:52.880
the camera and one of our guys who was in pursuit

01:06:52.880 --> 01:06:57.119
of the suspect got by himself and nobody for

01:06:57.119 --> 01:06:59.139
the life of him or for the life of anybody else

01:06:59.139 --> 01:07:01.679
could find where he was, where the chase was

01:07:01.679 --> 01:07:03.880
going down, what direction they were heading.

01:07:04.000 --> 01:07:07.800
He was just, the blinders were on and the streets

01:07:07.800 --> 01:07:10.460
didn't make sense. And we were the only people

01:07:10.460 --> 01:07:12.159
that had eyes on him. And we were trying to give

01:07:12.159 --> 01:07:14.679
people directions. We'll turn left at 3rd Avenue,

01:07:14.780 --> 01:07:17.119
and then you're going to run into 3rd Lane. And

01:07:17.119 --> 01:07:22.000
it wasn't happening. So the skilled pilot that

01:07:22.000 --> 01:07:24.880
I was with, absolutely phenomenal. There was

01:07:24.880 --> 01:07:29.860
a canal bank, I mean, just about as wide to fit

01:07:29.860 --> 01:07:33.679
a helicopter in. And he said, can you help him?

01:07:33.739 --> 01:07:35.880
I looked out, and I looked over at him. I said,

01:07:35.960 --> 01:07:38.960
yeah. And I mean, before I even finished, yeah,

01:07:39.079 --> 01:07:41.440
we were descending out of the air. The aircraft

01:07:41.440 --> 01:07:44.739
was placed in the ground perfectly in a tight,

01:07:44.800 --> 01:07:48.840
confined area. I hopped out, gun, radio. I knew

01:07:48.840 --> 01:07:50.559
exactly where they were running. We headed them

01:07:50.559 --> 01:07:53.820
off. We made the apprehension together. And before

01:07:53.820 --> 01:07:56.039
I was, I mean, even feet on the ground, the helicopter

01:07:56.039 --> 01:07:58.860
was back in the air. He was flying, keeping eyes

01:07:58.860 --> 01:08:02.400
on us, still calling out. to other units while

01:08:02.400 --> 01:08:05.300
talking to other air traffic the guy was a rock

01:08:05.300 --> 01:08:07.980
star doing it all and uh and we were able to

01:08:07.980 --> 01:08:11.500
make an apprehension we we draw down on the guy

01:08:11.500 --> 01:08:15.119
and i've got a helmet on i'm in a flight suit

01:08:15.119 --> 01:08:18.579
i've got my firearm and i come around the corner

01:08:18.579 --> 01:08:22.279
make eye contact with with my my fellow deputy

01:08:22.279 --> 01:08:26.340
we sprawled the suspect out on the ground and

01:08:26.340 --> 01:08:28.319
he just keep he just keeps looking at me like

01:08:28.319 --> 01:08:31.159
what what do you How did you, what are you doing

01:08:31.159 --> 01:08:33.619
here? And I said, we'll talk about it in a second.

01:08:33.840 --> 01:08:36.920
And literally, I'll never forget this. He's pointed

01:08:36.920 --> 01:08:39.020
out the suspect and he looks at me, he goes,

01:08:39.119 --> 01:08:41.699
this is the coolest day I've ever had at work

01:08:41.699 --> 01:08:43.979
in my life. Like we're mid arrest and he had

01:08:43.979 --> 01:08:47.960
to get that out. And we made the apprehension.

01:08:48.319 --> 01:08:53.319
I gave him a knuckle up and the call ended well.

01:08:53.439 --> 01:08:55.420
Everybody was safe. Nobody got hurt. Got back

01:08:55.420 --> 01:08:58.729
to the helicopter, flew back. We landed, refueled,

01:08:58.729 --> 01:09:00.930
did our paperwork. And about a half hour later,

01:09:01.109 --> 01:09:04.689
the deputy called me and said, hey, man, I just,

01:09:04.810 --> 01:09:07.569
I can't thank you enough what you guys did. I

01:09:07.569 --> 01:09:10.390
was, you know, I was completely alone. It's incredible

01:09:10.390 --> 01:09:14.829
to know that in those oh crap moments, you guys

01:09:14.829 --> 01:09:18.130
are there. And it gave me chills, man. It was

01:09:18.130 --> 01:09:21.189
one of those days where just like job well done

01:09:21.189 --> 01:09:23.770
and everybody went home safe. He went home to

01:09:23.770 --> 01:09:26.529
his family. And that's what it's all about. And

01:09:26.529 --> 01:09:29.289
mission accomplished. I've been having conversations

01:09:29.289 --> 01:09:32.529
with strength and conditioning coaches that work

01:09:32.529 --> 01:09:35.430
with the military. Normally, you know, the upper

01:09:35.430 --> 01:09:37.770
tiers of the military and then some of them also

01:09:37.770 --> 01:09:40.970
work with us. And it was crazy going back. It's

01:09:40.970 --> 01:09:42.430
really going back to the fitness standards when

01:09:42.430 --> 01:09:44.729
it comes to them working with the SEALs, Delta,

01:09:44.909 --> 01:09:46.989
you know, again, Power Rescue, whoever it is

01:09:46.989 --> 01:09:49.569
they're working with. They're helping them squeeze

01:09:49.569 --> 01:09:52.909
out performance. now they come work for police

01:09:52.909 --> 01:09:54.609
and fire let's just say fire because it's the

01:09:54.609 --> 01:09:57.010
arena i know and they're like well we need to

01:09:57.010 --> 01:09:59.029
get you walking more here's how to make a bowl

01:09:59.029 --> 01:10:01.590
of oatmeal you know let's basically try and get

01:10:01.590 --> 01:10:03.229
you to die a little bit less than you are at

01:10:03.229 --> 01:10:06.470
the moment yeah and now again going back to this

01:10:06.470 --> 01:10:09.149
movement in florida especially where this this

01:10:09.149 --> 01:10:12.229
wellness um lens has changed the work week and

01:10:12.229 --> 01:10:14.750
now we're talking about fitness standards there's

01:10:14.750 --> 01:10:18.239
a chasm between where we are and where we could

01:10:18.239 --> 01:10:20.600
be as far as performance and i think that story

01:10:20.600 --> 01:10:23.539
is a beautiful example if you did the bare minimum

01:10:23.539 --> 01:10:25.399
in all these roles would you have had the skill

01:10:25.399 --> 01:10:28.359
set to land the bird where you did to apprehend

01:10:28.359 --> 01:10:30.979
the fitness you know the the tactical know -how

01:10:30.979 --> 01:10:34.060
i mean all the things so these are you know the

01:10:34.060 --> 01:10:36.000
areas that i think you just don't have these

01:10:36.000 --> 01:10:38.819
conversations you know that the ability to critically

01:10:38.819 --> 01:10:41.260
think the ability to use your physicality and

01:10:41.260 --> 01:10:45.260
your you know your um intelligence and wit to

01:10:45.260 --> 01:10:47.659
mitigate some of these situations, that's what

01:10:47.659 --> 01:10:50.800
you get from that next level of training, fitness,

01:10:50.800 --> 01:10:55.340
and rest and recovery. Absolutely. And I think

01:10:55.340 --> 01:11:00.260
one of the worst things that you can do in those

01:11:00.260 --> 01:11:04.279
situations is have the mindset that you're still

01:11:04.279 --> 01:11:08.210
whatever level of fitness. your actual fitness

01:11:08.210 --> 01:11:10.470
be lacking and then when you hop out of the helicopter

01:11:10.470 --> 01:11:12.510
or you hop out of the fire truck and you start

01:11:12.510 --> 01:11:15.470
to sprint in that direction now all we've got

01:11:15.470 --> 01:11:18.770
is another victim you know and that is that is

01:11:18.770 --> 01:11:20.930
the worst thing that you can do for yourself

01:11:20.930 --> 01:11:24.310
for for the team that you're working with my

01:11:24.310 --> 01:11:26.729
goal has always just been useful and to keep

01:11:26.729 --> 01:11:29.590
the spear sharp so that there wasn't a moment

01:11:29.590 --> 01:11:33.189
where oh hey get get chris some water i'll get

01:11:33.189 --> 01:11:37.000
water when this is done you know, so that we

01:11:37.000 --> 01:11:38.680
can accomplish what the mission and the goal

01:11:38.680 --> 01:11:43.640
is. And absolutely, because that in between where

01:11:43.640 --> 01:11:46.279
you are trying to help or you're fighting for

01:11:46.279 --> 01:11:50.140
your life, and then you have that voice in your

01:11:50.140 --> 01:11:53.140
head click, say, I'm not ready for this. In law

01:11:53.140 --> 01:11:55.649
enforcement, that's when we... That's when dangerous

01:11:55.649 --> 01:11:57.670
mistakes happen. That's when people go to their

01:11:57.670 --> 01:11:59.310
weapon that they should have been going to their

01:11:59.310 --> 01:12:02.069
weapon for. They try and do something because

01:12:02.069 --> 01:12:05.510
they are gassed. They are at their absolute limitation.

01:12:05.829 --> 01:12:09.909
And that didn't have to be the case. I'm not

01:12:09.909 --> 01:12:11.890
here standing up on a soapbox saying everybody's

01:12:11.890 --> 01:12:14.310
got to be Captain America. But there is a huge

01:12:14.310 --> 01:12:19.010
gap. There is a chasm that we need to fill because

01:12:19.010 --> 01:12:22.149
it makes you safer. It gets you home to your

01:12:22.149 --> 01:12:25.069
family. And it keeps the public safe. And that's

01:12:25.069 --> 01:12:27.350
the goal of all of this. And the physical fitness

01:12:27.350 --> 01:12:30.829
component of that fits into a very large piece

01:12:30.829 --> 01:12:34.409
of that pie, for sure. Absolutely. Well, just

01:12:34.409 --> 01:12:37.670
while we're on the law enforcement side, as far

01:12:37.670 --> 01:12:40.170
as SWAT and all these other things, when I'm

01:12:40.170 --> 01:12:44.449
thinking of... pilots in the military setting

01:12:44.449 --> 01:12:46.609
and i don't know if i'm just thinking of video

01:12:46.609 --> 01:12:48.770
games and this is absolute bullshit but i'm thinking

01:12:48.770 --> 01:12:52.430
that the friendly soldiers have the beacons so

01:12:52.430 --> 01:12:55.550
the pilots know who you know who they're after

01:12:55.550 --> 01:12:57.909
who they're not is there an element of that in

01:12:57.909 --> 01:12:59.949
law enforcement because i can imagine when there's

01:12:59.949 --> 01:13:01.930
all these white you know outlines and they're

01:13:01.930 --> 01:13:04.850
trying to figure out who is who we we do use

01:13:04.850 --> 01:13:07.069
some of that some of that uh tech and some of

01:13:07.069 --> 01:13:11.409
that um some of those um advantages with with

01:13:11.409 --> 01:13:13.810
tracking with our canine just because the pace

01:13:13.810 --> 01:13:15.949
that they're moving and usually if they're if

01:13:15.949 --> 01:13:18.390
they're searching it's in and out of tree lines

01:13:18.390 --> 01:13:20.649
in and out of bush lines through you know through

01:13:20.649 --> 01:13:22.930
brush or through houses where they're going to

01:13:22.930 --> 01:13:24.630
turn corners and they're going to pop back out

01:13:24.630 --> 01:13:27.470
so yeah no we we have those capabilities we've

01:13:27.470 --> 01:13:30.409
got we've got capabilities to identify things

01:13:30.409 --> 01:13:33.180
to them on the ground that they can be privy

01:13:33.180 --> 01:13:35.579
to. So we can identify targets that nobody else

01:13:35.579 --> 01:13:38.520
can see, but our guys can see it and kind of

01:13:38.520 --> 01:13:40.100
see where we're looking and where we're pointing

01:13:40.100 --> 01:13:42.159
to. So we have those capabilities. I think people

01:13:42.159 --> 01:13:43.720
would be surprised to know of our capabilities,

01:13:43.939 --> 01:13:47.140
but that's our secret to keep as well. Well,

01:13:47.260 --> 01:13:49.199
what about on the canine side? You see some pretty

01:13:49.199 --> 01:13:52.000
amazing things as far as insertion with dogs.

01:13:52.739 --> 01:13:55.880
Talk to me about that, if anything, on the canine

01:13:55.880 --> 01:13:59.420
side and what you're doing. Yeah, I mean, it's...

01:14:00.210 --> 01:14:02.729
For what our capabilities are, and we have forward

01:14:02.729 --> 01:14:04.970
-looking infrared, and we have that ability to

01:14:04.970 --> 01:14:07.189
see heat signatures and things like that, but

01:14:07.189 --> 01:14:11.130
there's plenty of times where canopy cover, whether

01:14:11.130 --> 01:14:14.930
it's a metal roof or a shed or something like

01:14:14.930 --> 01:14:16.470
that, where we can't get a strong enough heat

01:14:16.470 --> 01:14:18.770
signature. With the camera work, you would breeze

01:14:18.770 --> 01:14:22.170
right over it thinking, spot's clear, only to

01:14:22.170 --> 01:14:25.430
have the dog a couple seconds behind your trail.

01:14:26.460 --> 01:14:28.119
Then all of a sudden you hear this keying up

01:14:28.119 --> 01:14:30.060
on the radio and somebody screaming in the background

01:14:30.060 --> 01:14:34.420
because we found them. So, no, yeah, there's

01:14:34.420 --> 01:14:36.579
never a lack of element of surprise as to what

01:14:36.579 --> 01:14:39.180
those dogs can do and their capability with incredible

01:14:39.180 --> 01:14:41.979
handlers that do an awesome job. Those guys are

01:14:41.979 --> 01:14:44.159
relentlessly training. They take their craft

01:14:44.159 --> 01:14:47.640
very, very seriously. And they keep those dogs

01:14:47.640 --> 01:14:51.640
just in phenomenal shape. And just their ability

01:14:51.640 --> 01:14:54.960
to communicate with them and identify, you know.

01:14:55.260 --> 01:14:59.399
victim suspect targets you know just stand by

01:14:59.399 --> 01:15:02.000
you know person that's just calling in the call

01:15:02.000 --> 01:15:04.439
how they can weave those dogs through through

01:15:04.439 --> 01:15:08.199
a crowd and stay on a trail it's impressive makes

01:15:08.199 --> 01:15:10.960
the job fun just because sometimes you get kind

01:15:10.960 --> 01:15:12.720
of lured into just watching it you feel like

01:15:12.720 --> 01:15:14.020
you're watching an episode of cops and you're

01:15:14.020 --> 01:15:17.640
actually working it what about before we go to

01:15:17.640 --> 01:15:19.779
i want to go to the mental health next but what

01:15:19.779 --> 01:15:23.449
about as far as your own ability to stay in good

01:15:23.449 --> 01:15:25.390
physical condition not so much the fitness standards

01:15:25.390 --> 01:15:27.609
but as far as the wear and tear the reason i

01:15:27.609 --> 01:15:30.949
asked that my friend dave is a pilot and he's

01:15:30.949 --> 01:15:32.609
had a lot of issues with the neck because you

01:15:32.609 --> 01:15:34.289
got the helmet you got the nods and just that

01:15:34.289 --> 01:15:36.069
weight and like you said the g's and everything

01:15:36.069 --> 01:15:38.649
else as well and then i've had another person

01:15:38.649 --> 01:15:41.829
that was even implying that um what about the

01:15:41.829 --> 01:15:44.130
flight suits the same pfas issues that we're

01:15:44.130 --> 01:15:46.729
looking at in our our gear as firefighters you

01:15:46.729 --> 01:15:48.810
know that there's there's an element of that

01:15:48.810 --> 01:15:52.800
in aviation as well so All things health in a

01:15:52.800 --> 01:15:56.260
pilot's position. Talk to me. Well, with the

01:15:56.260 --> 01:15:58.520
PFAS thing, yeah. I mean, if I could write a

01:15:58.520 --> 01:16:01.340
memo and they just let me fly in board shorts

01:16:01.340 --> 01:16:04.579
and a shirt and flip -flops. And hey, if I'm

01:16:04.579 --> 01:16:05.920
going to burn up, I'm going to burn up, man.

01:16:06.020 --> 01:16:09.359
Just let me burn up quick. I don't want to live

01:16:09.359 --> 01:16:12.449
through life the rest of the time. yeah it's

01:16:12.449 --> 01:16:15.010
it's in the back of my mind you know the exhaust

01:16:15.010 --> 01:16:17.489
the turbine engines all that it's in the back

01:16:17.489 --> 01:16:19.569
of my mind there's not much i can do about it

01:16:19.569 --> 01:16:22.489
and i i you know i'll probably change my mind

01:16:22.489 --> 01:16:24.649
when i'm older but right now it's like it's the

01:16:24.649 --> 01:16:27.250
life i chose and it's what lights lights my world

01:16:27.250 --> 01:16:31.010
on fire um so i'll deal with it but the physical

01:16:31.010 --> 01:16:33.250
side is probably the thing i you know i feel

01:16:33.250 --> 01:16:37.000
the most Yeah, the neck issues, there's well

01:16:37.000 --> 01:16:39.560
-documented cases of all the hours of the military

01:16:39.560 --> 01:16:41.699
guys. They've done a better job of documenting

01:16:41.699 --> 01:16:44.539
it than law enforcement has. But MVGs, weighted

01:16:44.539 --> 01:16:47.340
helmets, and then, you know, for the most part,

01:16:47.420 --> 01:16:50.359
we do pull Gs in the aircraft. We're not, you

01:16:50.359 --> 01:16:52.260
know, doing aerobatic flight, but you come into

01:16:52.260 --> 01:16:54.199
a tight turn and you're pulling another half

01:16:54.199 --> 01:16:58.140
pound of Gs or another half G or a full G, and

01:16:58.140 --> 01:17:01.260
now your eight -pound helmet weighs 16 pounds.

01:17:01.850 --> 01:17:04.250
And it's, you know, for a half hour, 45 minutes

01:17:04.250 --> 01:17:07.430
of 16 -pound strain pulling your neck down. I

01:17:07.430 --> 01:17:10.229
feel that every single time I work a night shift.

01:17:10.729 --> 01:17:13.850
And it's one of those things where body in motion

01:17:13.850 --> 01:17:16.510
stays in motion. Oh, my gosh, I'll say that again.

01:17:16.609 --> 01:17:20.470
Body in motion stays in motion. So if I'm not

01:17:20.470 --> 01:17:24.029
working out and I'm not doing, you know, weight

01:17:24.029 --> 01:17:29.050
training, I fall apart. I mean, the back, helicopter

01:17:29.050 --> 01:17:32.430
seats. It's like flying Spirit Airlines. It's

01:17:32.430 --> 01:17:35.409
terrible. You're crammed into a tiny little seat

01:17:35.409 --> 01:17:38.630
the whole time. So the physicality of it is definitely

01:17:38.630 --> 01:17:41.029
something that I personally address, and I just

01:17:41.029 --> 01:17:43.550
do not miss a day in the gym or else it gets

01:17:43.550 --> 01:17:45.550
worse. You think you want to take a day off,

01:17:45.630 --> 01:17:47.569
especially after night shift. You think you do.

01:17:47.710 --> 01:17:50.270
You think that's kind of like, well, I'll just

01:17:50.270 --> 01:17:53.170
rest or I'll just recover. And then the next

01:17:53.170 --> 01:17:55.029
morning you wake up and you're paying the price

01:17:55.029 --> 01:17:57.270
for it. So it's a constant vigilance thing, just

01:17:57.270 --> 01:18:01.199
staying sharp. trying to beat off father time

01:18:01.199 --> 01:18:04.220
that sounded weird when you said it that way

01:18:04.220 --> 01:18:11.920
i had a i had the the creator of i think it's

01:18:11.920 --> 01:18:13.960
the iron neck i hope i got that name right but

01:18:13.960 --> 01:18:15.899
yeah i've used it we have one at the hangar here

01:18:15.899 --> 01:18:17.800
how do you find that helping with this issue

01:18:18.329 --> 01:18:20.489
It actually helps a lot, and they're not paying

01:18:20.489 --> 01:18:24.170
me to say that. Just an honest assessment. No,

01:18:24.270 --> 01:18:27.430
if my neck is stiff, I'll do the full kind of

01:18:27.430 --> 01:18:29.350
– they've got the little card that shows you

01:18:29.350 --> 01:18:31.649
all the exercises. I'll run through that, and

01:18:31.649 --> 01:18:34.710
it loosens the neck back up, like gets me right

01:18:34.710 --> 01:18:37.689
back in the game. I was actually very impressed

01:18:37.689 --> 01:18:39.210
with it. Yeah, I got it, and I was thinking like,

01:18:39.250 --> 01:18:42.109
well, here's another thing from Joe Rogan we're

01:18:42.109 --> 01:18:45.750
going to give a shot out to, and it worked. It's

01:18:45.750 --> 01:18:48.789
fantastic. Very cool. all right well then shifting

01:18:48.789 --> 01:18:51.029
to the mental health side obviously we kind of

01:18:51.029 --> 01:18:53.250
touched on it when we're talking about your your

01:18:53.250 --> 01:18:56.310
grandparents but yeah as you've progressed through

01:18:56.310 --> 01:18:57.970
obviously the military more on an educational

01:18:57.970 --> 01:19:00.869
side and then you know actually being boots well

01:19:00.869 --> 01:19:02.689
i'd say boots on the ground boots above the ground

01:19:02.689 --> 01:19:07.109
in your case um in the law enforcement side what

01:19:07.109 --> 01:19:09.649
what were some of the highs and lows of your

01:19:09.649 --> 01:19:13.170
own journey and then uh let's start talking about

01:19:13.170 --> 01:19:15.510
you know your your lens on that whole issue now

01:19:17.369 --> 01:19:20.529
I think the hardest calls are definitely, and

01:19:20.529 --> 01:19:24.750
the hardest experiences for me, I think for anybody

01:19:24.750 --> 01:19:28.229
that's just trying to help is the ones where

01:19:28.229 --> 01:19:30.810
you can't help, where you were just, and it's

01:19:30.810 --> 01:19:33.029
beyond your control, you were too late or whatever

01:19:33.029 --> 01:19:38.109
the case may be. Those just sting because there's

01:19:38.109 --> 01:19:40.810
a lot of just what ifs. And you can really find

01:19:40.810 --> 01:19:42.489
yourself beating yourself up about that. Well,

01:19:42.510 --> 01:19:44.069
what if we'd have gotten out and gotten the aircraft?

01:19:44.310 --> 01:19:47.449
What if, you know, we'd... taken off faster or

01:19:47.449 --> 01:19:49.189
the airport would have cleared us to get there

01:19:49.189 --> 01:19:51.510
and you could you could just chase your tail

01:19:51.510 --> 01:19:53.949
all day you know trying to trying to figure that

01:19:53.949 --> 01:19:58.010
out um those staying we do get called it's south

01:19:58.010 --> 01:20:01.210
florida um florida for for that matter you know

01:20:01.210 --> 01:20:04.069
there's bodies of water everywhere and we've

01:20:04.069 --> 01:20:06.829
there's kids everywhere those are heartbreaking

01:20:06.829 --> 01:20:09.590
i'm not a father yet i have a niece and nephew

01:20:09.590 --> 01:20:13.270
that i would take a bullet for and i Those are

01:20:13.270 --> 01:20:16.010
tough days. Those are days I just go home and

01:20:16.010 --> 01:20:19.050
I just like take my dog, sit her on the couch

01:20:19.050 --> 01:20:21.609
and just kind of just go silent for a little

01:20:21.609 --> 01:20:24.909
bit because that one just is a complete gut punch.

01:20:25.510 --> 01:20:30.229
But dealing with it, I'm very fortunate. My girlfriend,

01:20:30.630 --> 01:20:35.789
her father was former NYPD. She's someone that

01:20:35.789 --> 01:20:39.229
gets it. And she's also, we're on the same page

01:20:39.229 --> 01:20:42.329
as to the fact that we're not doing it how the

01:20:42.329 --> 01:20:44.710
previous generation did we're taking all the

01:20:44.710 --> 01:20:47.210
good things that we saw and we're bringing that

01:20:47.210 --> 01:20:49.649
forward into our relationship but the communication

01:20:49.649 --> 01:20:53.710
is is wide open and uh and tough days get talked

01:20:53.710 --> 01:20:55.949
about and if tough days don't get talked about

01:20:55.949 --> 01:20:59.789
she gives me the grace and the time to process

01:20:59.789 --> 01:21:03.250
it and then it gets talked about and uh and we

01:21:03.250 --> 01:21:05.510
we have that ability and i have that ability

01:21:05.510 --> 01:21:09.130
to have an outlet and uh and somebody that is

01:21:09.130 --> 01:21:13.829
able to just understand a little bit deeper into

01:21:13.829 --> 01:21:15.869
kind of the lens that i'm looking through the

01:21:15.869 --> 01:21:18.390
world with so that's that's been huge and then

01:21:18.390 --> 01:21:21.489
we we have a phenomenal unit here too where part

01:21:21.489 --> 01:21:25.510
of our debrief is you go through your checks

01:21:25.510 --> 01:21:27.590
you come back from a call this is what went good

01:21:27.590 --> 01:21:29.810
this is what we could have done better that all

01:21:29.810 --> 01:21:31.930
gets sorted and then the last question is hey

01:21:31.930 --> 01:21:36.289
is everybody okay and uh who's feeling it who's

01:21:36.289 --> 01:21:38.750
not and and i've had those conversations with

01:21:38.750 --> 01:21:43.289
guys who have who have had kids and uh and we've

01:21:43.289 --> 01:21:45.369
been on those calls where whether it's a pool

01:21:45.369 --> 01:21:47.789
or a canal or whatever case we might find them

01:21:47.789 --> 01:21:50.369
in where we come back we take a little somber

01:21:50.369 --> 01:21:53.449
moment moment we talk about it hey man i i just

01:21:53.449 --> 01:21:55.029
kept you know i'm thinking about my kids now

01:21:55.029 --> 01:21:58.630
and and that kind of thing and and it gets talked

01:21:58.630 --> 01:22:01.569
about doesn't get stuffed down the conversations

01:22:01.569 --> 01:22:04.340
are had And we have a great agency, too, where

01:22:04.340 --> 01:22:07.140
if it needs to go to another level, a more professional

01:22:07.140 --> 01:22:09.779
level, if kind of, you know, the guys can't handle

01:22:09.779 --> 01:22:12.659
it, then meaning that we can't handle it internally,

01:22:12.840 --> 01:22:15.880
just speaking together, that we've got the resources

01:22:15.880 --> 01:22:19.180
and it's encouraged. Our agency does a great

01:22:19.180 --> 01:22:21.699
job of pushing that, that the help is there if

01:22:21.699 --> 01:22:23.420
you need it. And they encourage us to get it,

01:22:23.460 --> 01:22:25.979
you know. And it's not a thing from the past

01:22:25.979 --> 01:22:28.159
where now you've got an egg on your face and

01:22:28.159 --> 01:22:31.180
you're a guy that called the hotline and that.

01:22:31.560 --> 01:22:34.699
that kind of culture is, is slowly dying out

01:22:34.699 --> 01:22:40.600
and it's certainly for the best. One of the things

01:22:40.600 --> 01:22:43.000
that I've kind of observed myself because of

01:22:43.000 --> 01:22:45.199
that inability to save is crushing. And I've

01:22:45.199 --> 01:22:48.500
said this many times on the podcast, when I responded

01:22:48.500 --> 01:22:51.340
to a cardiac arrest, they are already, the heart

01:22:51.340 --> 01:22:55.239
is not beating in 14 years. Plus I actually worked

01:22:55.239 --> 01:22:57.380
a code on a plane about a year ago in London.

01:22:57.659 --> 01:23:01.960
I have zero saves, not a single one. And so if

01:23:01.960 --> 01:23:03.619
you look at the way that we're trained, well,

01:23:03.720 --> 01:23:05.319
you go through school, you learn the drugs, you

01:23:05.319 --> 01:23:08.619
learn your cardiac algorithms. And if I give

01:23:08.619 --> 01:23:11.600
this drug and these CPR and then this defibrillation,

01:23:11.680 --> 01:23:13.720
then the person wakes up and they come to the

01:23:13.720 --> 01:23:15.640
station, they bring a cake, we take a photo,

01:23:15.720 --> 01:23:18.800
it's in the paper. 14 years later, you're like,

01:23:18.859 --> 01:23:21.260
fucking hell, am I the Grim Reaper? What is wrong

01:23:21.260 --> 01:23:25.279
with me? But I think the thing that appeases

01:23:25.279 --> 01:23:27.920
that is, again, going back to what we talked

01:23:27.920 --> 01:23:29.479
about with standards and training and fitness

01:23:29.479 --> 01:23:31.710
and everything. if you know that you've done

01:23:31.710 --> 01:23:34.710
everything you could to prepare, then I think

01:23:34.710 --> 01:23:37.050
that's where you can lean into and go, you know,

01:23:37.069 --> 01:23:39.050
I'm not God. I'm not going to, you know, we were

01:23:39.050 --> 01:23:42.369
never going to save everyone, but we did everything

01:23:42.369 --> 01:23:46.069
that we could. It was, you know, in the somewhat

01:23:46.069 --> 01:23:47.909
in the way it was supposed to, we all, we all

01:23:47.909 --> 01:23:49.710
know it's organized chaos. So it's never like

01:23:49.710 --> 01:23:51.489
clinical when, when we go through these codes,

01:23:51.550 --> 01:23:56.640
but I think we're a very dangerous place. that

01:23:56.640 --> 01:23:59.220
some people inhabit is these agencies that are

01:23:59.220 --> 01:24:01.619
lax, that don't have the fitness standards, don't

01:24:01.619 --> 01:24:03.939
have the training standards. And that person

01:24:03.939 --> 01:24:06.000
knows in their heart of hearts that maybe that

01:24:06.000 --> 01:24:08.300
person died because of their skillset or lack

01:24:08.300 --> 01:24:11.479
thereof. That's very, very heavy. And I, that's

01:24:11.479 --> 01:24:16.060
certainly, I know that goes on. Absolutely. Yeah.

01:24:16.140 --> 01:24:18.020
That's, that's a, that's a dangerous place to

01:24:18.020 --> 01:24:20.640
be because there's not much you can, you can't

01:24:20.640 --> 01:24:23.060
do anything about it after the fact. And, and

01:24:23.060 --> 01:24:25.000
that's, that's a heavy, heavy thing to carry

01:24:25.000 --> 01:24:27.550
for sure. Well, you mentioned as well in the

01:24:27.550 --> 01:24:29.470
debrief about what can, you know, what can we

01:24:29.470 --> 01:24:31.010
do better? I think that's a really important

01:24:31.010 --> 01:24:33.270
thing. You know, we call it tailboard critique

01:24:33.270 --> 01:24:35.510
and the fire service and the good crews that

01:24:35.510 --> 01:24:38.069
I work with. We would always do that at the end,

01:24:38.109 --> 01:24:40.090
you know, kind of assess what went well, what

01:24:40.090 --> 01:24:42.449
could we do better next time? Because, yeah,

01:24:42.489 --> 01:24:44.369
you might not have saved that person, but was

01:24:44.369 --> 01:24:46.430
there a way of getting off, you know, getting

01:24:46.430 --> 01:24:48.869
in the air 60 seconds earlier the next time?

01:24:48.890 --> 01:24:50.869
Was there an area that can be improved on? So

01:24:50.869 --> 01:24:54.050
talk to me about that because. other places i've

01:24:54.050 --> 01:24:55.909
worked there wasn't it was just like well no

01:24:55.909 --> 01:24:58.229
one died so we're good let's move on yeah which

01:24:58.229 --> 01:25:00.810
is a horrible way of doing it yeah culturally

01:25:00.810 --> 01:25:02.949
i think i think if you really do want to have

01:25:02.949 --> 01:25:05.710
an elite unit that has to be internal because

01:25:05.710 --> 01:25:09.649
the fact of the matter is is that first responders

01:25:09.649 --> 01:25:12.350
are given some grace there's nobody really looking

01:25:12.350 --> 01:25:15.970
over your shoulder saying nobody's doing an audit

01:25:15.970 --> 01:25:19.220
on your life -saving attempt That all has to

01:25:19.220 --> 01:25:21.600
come internally. The public just trusts that

01:25:21.600 --> 01:25:23.720
you are trying to do your best, which is a huge

01:25:23.720 --> 01:25:27.079
responsibility. And I think it's an absolute

01:25:27.079 --> 01:25:32.800
disservice if you're letting that and you're

01:25:32.800 --> 01:25:37.479
just kind of riding that out. We, in our debriefs,

01:25:37.500 --> 01:25:42.520
we have our conversations. We talk about the

01:25:42.520 --> 01:25:44.640
call and maybe there's some high -fiving that

01:25:44.640 --> 01:25:47.020
goes on, but there is a specific moment where

01:25:47.020 --> 01:25:50.100
it's, All right, this point of the debrief, it's

01:25:50.100 --> 01:25:52.720
time for thick skin. And we have very honest

01:25:52.720 --> 01:25:55.699
conversations. And the mention of thick skin

01:25:55.699 --> 01:25:57.479
is to get everybody in the right headspace that,

01:25:57.520 --> 01:25:59.760
hey, this is a reminder. Nobody's coming after

01:25:59.760 --> 01:26:03.239
anybody. But our standard is very high. And nobody

01:26:03.239 --> 01:26:06.079
here is perfect. We are all of the same mind

01:26:06.079 --> 01:26:08.520
that we want to put out the best product possible.

01:26:09.140 --> 01:26:11.819
So with that in mind, we're going to get into

01:26:11.819 --> 01:26:14.760
the nitty gritty. And we're all going to hold

01:26:14.760 --> 01:26:16.579
ourselves accountable for the standard that we've

01:26:16.579 --> 01:26:19.989
set. And I think that's absolutely essential

01:26:19.989 --> 01:26:23.149
because like I said, nobody else is doing that

01:26:23.149 --> 01:26:26.409
for you. That's not in a manual. That's not coming

01:26:26.409 --> 01:26:29.289
down from your higher ups. That's just policed

01:26:29.289 --> 01:26:33.090
internally at the unit level. And that culture

01:26:33.090 --> 01:26:35.989
either exists or it doesn't. And if it doesn't,

01:26:35.989 --> 01:26:38.949
yeah, then you're going to be left to wonder

01:26:38.949 --> 01:26:41.090
how good you could have been, really could have

01:26:41.090 --> 01:26:45.609
been at your job or how much more good you could

01:26:45.609 --> 01:26:48.710
have. you could have helped, how much more good

01:26:48.710 --> 01:26:51.350
you could have done. And that's not a question

01:26:51.350 --> 01:26:54.909
I want to be asking myself in my, you know, twilight

01:26:54.909 --> 01:26:57.949
years sitting back on my porch. I want to leave

01:26:57.949 --> 01:27:02.390
it all out there and have that comfort of knowing

01:27:02.390 --> 01:27:04.449
that, yeah, we're not going to save them all.

01:27:04.529 --> 01:27:06.970
In fact, to your point, we're not going to save

01:27:06.970 --> 01:27:10.590
a lot of them. But we're going to give it everything

01:27:10.590 --> 01:27:12.250
we got. And we're going to try and be the best

01:27:12.250 --> 01:27:14.510
that we can at our profession, our job, for sure.

01:27:15.150 --> 01:27:17.510
Absolutely. And again, it goes back to this conversation

01:27:17.510 --> 01:27:20.069
on all these areas. It's like, it's not one side,

01:27:20.149 --> 01:27:22.350
it's both sides. You know, you've got to have

01:27:22.350 --> 01:27:24.569
the ownership as a first responder to hold yourself

01:27:24.569 --> 01:27:27.329
to a high bar. And there's got to be an environment

01:27:27.329 --> 01:27:29.829
to allow you to get to that high bar, to function

01:27:29.829 --> 01:27:32.090
at that high level. So it's, and yet, but you

01:27:32.090 --> 01:27:34.229
see a lot of finger pointing in agencies. Well,

01:27:34.409 --> 01:27:36.890
if, you know, admin just did this, or if the

01:27:36.890 --> 01:27:38.270
firefighters just did that, it's like, well,

01:27:38.289 --> 01:27:40.270
how about you both did what you're supposed to

01:27:40.270 --> 01:27:42.850
do? Then, you know, rising tide will lift all

01:27:42.850 --> 01:27:46.060
ships. Everyone will benefit then. Yeah. Yeah.

01:27:46.159 --> 01:27:48.020
We're in a unique position too, because once

01:27:48.020 --> 01:27:51.140
that helicopter lifts off, it's only us. It's

01:27:51.140 --> 01:27:53.359
who's in that aircraft. And, you know, just like

01:27:53.359 --> 01:27:57.079
probably responding in any rescue vehicle or

01:27:57.079 --> 01:28:00.819
fire engine, the higher ups and all that, we

01:28:00.819 --> 01:28:02.619
leave them behind when we go fly away and we

01:28:02.619 --> 01:28:04.979
go fly to a scene, which is nice in a sense.

01:28:05.579 --> 01:28:07.420
You definitely want their support and everything,

01:28:07.539 --> 01:28:10.609
but it's... It's about looking across the cabin

01:28:10.609 --> 01:28:12.510
and looking at the people you're with and knowing,

01:28:12.630 --> 01:28:14.710
hey, this is, you know what, this feels good

01:28:14.710 --> 01:28:17.770
because for what we've trained and what we've

01:28:17.770 --> 01:28:20.350
done, I feel like I'm with the A team. And that's

01:28:20.350 --> 01:28:23.550
a good feeling to have. And it makes a huge difference

01:28:23.550 --> 01:28:26.569
on the decisions you make and the outcome of

01:28:26.569 --> 01:28:28.649
cases and calls when you look around the room

01:28:28.649 --> 01:28:31.920
and you're like, okay, that guy's. tip of the

01:28:31.920 --> 01:28:34.300
spear, that guy's tip of the spear, that guy's

01:28:34.300 --> 01:28:37.880
greatest job. There's a confidence and a synergy

01:28:37.880 --> 01:28:41.180
that comes from that that just improves the product

01:28:41.180 --> 01:28:44.119
all the way across the board. But it starts at

01:28:44.119 --> 01:28:46.340
the base level. It's got to be something everybody's

01:28:46.340 --> 01:28:49.479
all in on. Absolutely. All right. Well, I want

01:28:49.479 --> 01:28:51.479
to shift to some closing questions, but I want

01:28:51.479 --> 01:28:53.560
to be mindful of your time as well. The first

01:28:53.560 --> 01:28:56.000
one I love to ask, is there a book or are there

01:28:56.000 --> 01:28:58.239
books that you'd love to recommend? It can be

01:28:58.239 --> 01:29:00.399
related to our discussion today or completely

01:29:00.399 --> 01:29:05.090
unrelated. Yeah, Deepak Chopra, Metahuman. It's

01:29:05.090 --> 01:29:08.029
like one of my favorite books. It's great. It

01:29:08.029 --> 01:29:12.310
is, I wouldn't even know actually where to start.

01:29:12.430 --> 01:29:15.810
It's like, it's the perspective I try and take

01:29:15.810 --> 01:29:19.430
into work every single day and with life that

01:29:19.430 --> 01:29:25.529
life is not your circumstances. It's almost like

01:29:25.529 --> 01:29:28.149
we're just actors in a play, man. What is happening

01:29:28.149 --> 01:29:30.109
is already happening. Just do the best that you

01:29:30.109 --> 01:29:33.359
can. Be there for the experience and maximize

01:29:33.359 --> 01:29:37.399
it. I read that book actually right before I

01:29:37.399 --> 01:29:41.199
went and climbed Aconcagua, which is one of the

01:29:41.199 --> 01:29:43.300
seven summits. And I don't think I would have

01:29:43.300 --> 01:29:47.100
made it to the top without it. I heard, do you

01:29:47.100 --> 01:29:50.680
know who Wayne Dyer is? I know that name. He

01:29:50.680 --> 01:29:53.699
did a lot of stuff with Deepak when he was alive,

01:29:54.159 --> 01:29:56.039
but he died of leukemia a few years ago. But

01:29:56.039 --> 01:29:58.819
he, I guess best to describe him as like a white

01:29:58.819 --> 01:30:01.359
Deepak Chopra. He took... He just took all the

01:30:01.359 --> 01:30:03.579
wisdom from everything, like the holy texts,

01:30:03.840 --> 01:30:06.960
you know, ancient wisdom, all the things and

01:30:06.960 --> 01:30:09.300
boiled it down to just common sense, which is

01:30:09.300 --> 01:30:11.680
why I love it because I don't subscribe to any

01:30:11.680 --> 01:30:13.880
specific religion. I just think that there's

01:30:13.880 --> 01:30:16.279
common denominator, wisdom and everything. That's

01:30:16.279 --> 01:30:19.220
why it's being passed down. But I think it was

01:30:19.220 --> 01:30:21.260
in a conversation with Wayne. I'm not sure. But

01:30:21.260 --> 01:30:25.600
Deepak was talking about going to India and there

01:30:25.600 --> 01:30:28.939
was some holy place where it was written on.

01:30:29.710 --> 01:30:33.010
pieces of bark and your name was on there. And

01:30:33.010 --> 01:30:34.630
it said that, you know, the date that you were

01:30:34.630 --> 01:30:37.390
going to die. And again, it was almost like that

01:30:37.390 --> 01:30:39.350
stoicism, you know, they, they kind of find like,

01:30:39.390 --> 01:30:41.170
Oh wow, everything is already written out for

01:30:41.170 --> 01:30:43.390
me. Yeah. And you know, again, some people would

01:30:43.390 --> 01:30:45.529
say, well, it's just a crazy Indian guy writing

01:30:45.529 --> 01:30:47.529
dates on a piece of wood and other people are

01:30:47.529 --> 01:30:49.689
all in, but regardless of that same mindset,

01:30:49.810 --> 01:30:51.529
like you said, it was like, whether you like

01:30:51.529 --> 01:30:53.390
it or not, you know, the sun's going to rise,

01:30:53.390 --> 01:30:55.810
the sun's going to fall. So, you know, are you

01:30:55.810 --> 01:30:58.270
going to. resist it the whole way or are you

01:30:58.270 --> 01:31:00.529
going to put something you know worth doing in

01:31:00.529 --> 01:31:03.630
your heart and just trust the process that's

01:31:03.630 --> 01:31:06.810
it love that absolutely all right what about

01:31:06.810 --> 01:31:12.489
films and documentaries oh films and documentaries

01:31:16.079 --> 01:31:18.140
I get, it's probably low hanging fruit, but man,

01:31:18.220 --> 01:31:20.840
any, any like animal planet series, like planet

01:31:20.840 --> 01:31:24.579
earth, can't get enough of those. Um, I could

01:31:24.579 --> 01:31:27.159
fall asleep to those like 24, seven, three 65

01:31:27.159 --> 01:31:32.260
at the end of the day. Um, specific films. It

01:31:32.260 --> 01:31:34.520
would also be cliche of me to say everybody should

01:31:34.520 --> 01:31:37.760
see top gun, but I'm not going to go that route

01:31:37.760 --> 01:31:44.159
either. Um, that's a tough one. Specific films.

01:31:59.960 --> 01:32:04.380
Oh, Memphis Belle. That was like one of those

01:32:04.380 --> 01:32:07.239
Catalyst movies when I was younger, and I think

01:32:07.239 --> 01:32:09.119
it had a lot to do with my grandparents and the

01:32:09.119 --> 01:32:13.300
stories that I heard and grew up hearing and

01:32:13.300 --> 01:32:16.779
talking about. Yeah. Bomber crew in World War

01:32:16.779 --> 01:32:19.840
II makes it to 25 missions, first bomber crew

01:32:19.840 --> 01:32:22.659
to ever do it, so they got to go home. The pressure

01:32:22.659 --> 01:32:24.279
that those guys were under at that young age

01:32:24.279 --> 01:32:28.680
to do those bombing raids in daylight, absolutely

01:32:28.680 --> 01:32:32.500
unimaginable, to be honest, but one of my favorite

01:32:32.500 --> 01:32:35.020
movies. Did you ever watch Masters of the Air?

01:32:35.939 --> 01:32:38.159
Yes, I did. What did you think of that one? I

01:32:38.159 --> 01:32:40.579
had Dale Dye on the show, and it was pretty amazing

01:32:40.579 --> 01:32:42.979
hearing the kind of backstory, but what was your

01:32:42.979 --> 01:32:48.310
perception as a pilot? No, those – yeah, same

01:32:48.310 --> 01:32:50.989
perspective as with Memphis Belle. You just –

01:32:50.989 --> 01:32:53.170
there's guys in those aircraft that don't even

01:32:53.170 --> 01:32:59.289
have facial hair yet. And that is – I think what

01:32:59.289 --> 01:33:02.350
that movie really encapsulated really well that

01:33:02.350 --> 01:33:04.529
maybe other movies in the past haven't is the

01:33:04.529 --> 01:33:09.270
chaos of when those planes were under attack

01:33:09.270 --> 01:33:13.369
during those runs. literally just planes falling

01:33:13.369 --> 01:33:16.029
out of the sky left and right and you'll they

01:33:16.029 --> 01:33:19.810
go home to land and half of their friends did

01:33:19.810 --> 01:33:22.829
not come back like the sheer numbers of loss

01:33:22.829 --> 01:33:26.970
um is something i don't i don't think we've seen

01:33:26.970 --> 01:33:30.350
in a very long time it's very very very unique

01:33:30.350 --> 01:33:32.529
to that to that time period where we were just

01:33:32.529 --> 01:33:36.930
it was all about manpower and and no smart bombs

01:33:36.930 --> 01:33:39.159
it was just How many people can you put into

01:33:39.159 --> 01:33:40.899
an aircraft? How many aircraft can you put in

01:33:40.899 --> 01:33:42.979
the air? And numbers were in the war. And it

01:33:42.979 --> 01:33:46.479
was just very, very different landscape and devastating

01:33:46.479 --> 01:33:49.180
what those guys saw. I think the other thing

01:33:49.180 --> 01:33:51.340
as well is when you watch Band of Brothers and

01:33:51.340 --> 01:33:53.920
the Pacific and Masters of the Air and you realize,

01:33:54.079 --> 01:33:56.300
well, I mean, this is obvious what I'm about

01:33:56.300 --> 01:34:00.359
to say, but there was no GPS. So you're literally

01:34:00.359 --> 01:34:03.619
on a boat, then on a beach, and then there's

01:34:03.619 --> 01:34:06.149
a bunch of bunkers up there. And you've got a

01:34:06.149 --> 01:34:08.010
map or you're in a plane and you've got your

01:34:08.010 --> 01:34:11.390
altimeter and everything. You're looking at some

01:34:11.390 --> 01:34:13.189
kid that you hope paid attention in navigation

01:34:13.189 --> 01:34:15.630
school and hoping he hadn't nodded off in the

01:34:15.630 --> 01:34:18.649
back. Yeah. I mean, that just adds another level

01:34:18.649 --> 01:34:21.369
that blows my mind. There's no, like you said,

01:34:21.550 --> 01:34:24.189
heat signature of the Germans from Overwatch.

01:34:24.449 --> 01:34:26.310
They could literally be behind the wall that

01:34:26.310 --> 01:34:27.729
you're walking forward and that's it. You're

01:34:27.729 --> 01:34:31.250
done. Yep. Different time when men were men,

01:34:31.329 --> 01:34:33.340
right? absolutely and it goes back to the beginning

01:34:33.340 --> 01:34:35.600
of the conversation you know yeah the toll that

01:34:35.600 --> 01:34:38.300
that must have taken that constant fear even

01:34:38.300 --> 01:34:40.880
the vietnam generation going through those jungles

01:34:40.880 --> 01:34:43.439
you know and the korean korean veterans that

01:34:43.439 --> 01:34:45.680
are forgotten constantly i've got one coming

01:34:45.680 --> 01:34:47.619
on the show actually but that's an era that i

01:34:47.619 --> 01:34:50.600
mean if you see what they did the the north koreans

01:34:50.600 --> 01:34:52.840
pushed the south koreans all the way to literally

01:34:52.840 --> 01:34:56.279
the southwestern tip of the country and the allies

01:34:56.279 --> 01:34:58.770
pushed them all the way back to the the halfway

01:34:58.770 --> 01:35:00.989
point again it was amazing what those men and

01:35:00.989 --> 01:35:05.090
women did yeah all right well then the next question

01:35:05.090 --> 01:35:07.390
is there a person that you recommend to come

01:35:07.390 --> 01:35:10.369
on this podcast as a guest to speak to the first

01:35:10.369 --> 01:35:12.529
responders military and associated professions

01:35:12.529 --> 01:35:18.390
of the world oh and it can be anyone yeah um

01:35:18.390 --> 01:35:23.369
john rourke who's uh who's also in this area

01:35:23.369 --> 01:35:28.479
um was a a uh former member of the military army

01:35:28.479 --> 01:35:34.899
um he then uh well he's i mean a complete service

01:35:34.899 --> 01:35:37.739
life he started the company blue line blue line

01:35:37.739 --> 01:35:40.279
moving a couple of years ago actually when people

01:35:40.279 --> 01:35:43.060
were exiting uh from new york and coming down

01:35:43.060 --> 01:35:45.960
to florida he was trying to he was he was uh

01:35:45.960 --> 01:35:48.520
doing an incredible job of of offering opportunities

01:35:48.520 --> 01:35:51.640
for first responders to come down and come populate

01:35:51.640 --> 01:35:56.399
the sunshine state but uh an absolute um Incredible

01:35:56.399 --> 01:35:59.239
example of service. He's been down to Eagle Pass

01:35:59.239 --> 01:36:02.159
and the southern border a ton. He did cleanups

01:36:02.159 --> 01:36:03.939
down there. He's done that the past couple of

01:36:03.939 --> 01:36:09.819
years under the great American cleanup. And just

01:36:09.819 --> 01:36:12.680
a really good guy. I would definitely, definitely

01:36:12.680 --> 01:36:14.739
recommend him to the podcast. Just a service

01:36:14.739 --> 01:36:18.439
-oriented patriot, for sure. Beautiful. That's

01:36:18.439 --> 01:36:20.140
just spurred a question I meant to ask you earlier.

01:36:20.579 --> 01:36:26.210
A lot of people in... Usually the EMS helicopter

01:36:26.210 --> 01:36:28.970
side, we're talking when I was earlier in my

01:36:28.970 --> 01:36:32.050
career, there was still a lot of Vietnam era

01:36:32.050 --> 01:36:34.949
pilots. And you hear these horror stories of

01:36:34.949 --> 01:36:37.350
these medics hanging on for dear life in the

01:36:37.350 --> 01:36:40.170
back. Was there any interaction as you progressed

01:36:40.170 --> 01:36:42.029
into that side with some of these incredible

01:36:42.029 --> 01:36:49.510
pilots from that era? Well, I think I kind of

01:36:49.510 --> 01:36:51.270
like hit it in the middle as those guys were.

01:36:51.899 --> 01:36:54.800
like, I caught stories, but never really any

01:36:54.800 --> 01:36:57.020
like actual full on interactions or flying with

01:36:57.020 --> 01:37:00.439
those guys. Which is unfortunate, shared coffee

01:37:00.439 --> 01:37:02.300
with them a couple of times, that kind of thing.

01:37:02.380 --> 01:37:04.699
But yeah, most of the guys that I've met had

01:37:04.699 --> 01:37:08.319
kind of kind of hung it up. And, and we're just

01:37:08.319 --> 01:37:11.239
happy in retirement. Happy not being in an aircraft

01:37:11.239 --> 01:37:14.119
that shook the entire time anymore. Yeah. Whilst

01:37:14.119 --> 01:37:17.420
being shot at. Yeah. All right. Well, then the

01:37:17.420 --> 01:37:19.119
last question before we make sure where people

01:37:19.119 --> 01:37:21.680
can find you. And the services that you offer

01:37:21.680 --> 01:37:26.859
as well. What do you do to decompress? Ooh, I

01:37:26.859 --> 01:37:29.239
get out in nature. That's it, man. I take my

01:37:29.239 --> 01:37:31.079
shoes off. I take my shoes off. I take my shirt

01:37:31.079 --> 01:37:34.300
off. And I go walk around in nature. So yeah,

01:37:34.300 --> 01:37:36.859
where people can find me. The goal is that nobody

01:37:36.859 --> 01:37:41.420
can find me. But that's it. Because that's always

01:37:41.420 --> 01:37:45.600
been the great reset for me. Is that this is

01:37:45.600 --> 01:37:47.840
a hustle and bustle job in a hustle and bustle

01:37:47.840 --> 01:37:52.239
community. I look forward to just quiet, quiet

01:37:52.239 --> 01:37:55.359
moments. It's one of the things about the apex

01:37:55.359 --> 01:37:58.359
predator interactions. You can't be anywhere

01:37:58.359 --> 01:38:01.220
else but where you are in those moments. That's

01:38:01.220 --> 01:38:03.500
the beauty of it. You're not worried about bills.

01:38:03.760 --> 01:38:05.840
You're not worried about getting dumped. You're

01:38:05.840 --> 01:38:08.020
not worried about missing this person's birthday.

01:38:08.520 --> 01:38:12.859
You are completely in the moment because the

01:38:12.859 --> 01:38:15.100
nature of the animal that you're interacting

01:38:15.100 --> 01:38:18.539
with deserves that respect. And as intense as

01:38:18.539 --> 01:38:22.060
it is, It's incredibly peaceful for that very

01:38:22.060 --> 01:38:27.199
reason. So that's where you find me. There are

01:38:27.199 --> 01:38:30.260
myths about what you should do if you face a

01:38:30.260 --> 01:38:32.279
shark, like one big one you hear. I don't know

01:38:32.279 --> 01:38:33.800
if it's a myth even, but they say, well, punch

01:38:33.800 --> 01:38:36.520
it in the nose. Well, try and punch people in

01:38:36.520 --> 01:38:38.039
the nose. It's actually harder than you think.

01:38:38.100 --> 01:38:40.960
I don't know about a shark. What are some of

01:38:40.960 --> 01:38:43.260
the humorous myths that you heard about sharks

01:38:43.260 --> 01:38:45.539
and gators? And then what are some of the things

01:38:45.539 --> 01:38:48.979
that are truths as far as people? But increasing

01:38:48.979 --> 01:38:51.500
their survivability, God forbid, they are faced

01:38:51.500 --> 01:38:54.880
by surprise. Yeah, sure. I mean, the worst one

01:38:54.880 --> 01:38:56.800
I've ever heard is, you know, swim away as fast

01:38:56.800 --> 01:38:58.859
as you can. That's might as well be a ring in

01:38:58.859 --> 01:39:00.760
the dinner bell. But I've heard the nose punches,

01:39:00.920 --> 01:39:03.920
the eye gouges, all that kind of stuff. At the

01:39:03.920 --> 01:39:06.800
end of the day, the beauty of all these wild

01:39:06.800 --> 01:39:09.180
animals is that they're very honest, right? Like

01:39:09.180 --> 01:39:12.319
it's way easier than people. They're not trying

01:39:12.319 --> 01:39:13.560
to trick you. They're not trying to pull one

01:39:13.560 --> 01:39:16.479
over on you. But the biggest deterrent for any...

01:39:17.160 --> 01:39:19.279
natural predator, especially in the water. Can't

01:39:19.279 --> 01:39:21.359
speak to really like the giant stuff like bears

01:39:21.359 --> 01:39:25.680
and that kind of thing. But eye contact is your

01:39:25.680 --> 01:39:28.300
cage. Eye contact is the number one solve. They're

01:39:28.300 --> 01:39:31.079
all ambush predators. So if you can solidify

01:39:31.079 --> 01:39:33.899
eye contact and let them know that you're aware

01:39:33.899 --> 01:39:36.520
of them 100 % fully and that you're on their

01:39:36.520 --> 01:39:38.420
radar the entire time they're looking at you.

01:39:39.199 --> 01:39:42.119
They will keep a distance. Wildlife and life

01:39:42.119 --> 01:39:44.260
in nature is too rough and tumble to get into

01:39:44.260 --> 01:39:47.539
some fight. If they get hurt, they die. So if

01:39:47.539 --> 01:39:51.680
they can't sneak up, it's a far cry for them

01:39:51.680 --> 01:39:54.539
to actually want to put in the effort, burn the

01:39:54.539 --> 01:39:58.319
calories to actually try and tussle with you.

01:39:58.579 --> 01:40:01.420
So just keep your eyes on the prize. That will

01:40:01.420 --> 01:40:04.479
usually serve you through. So humans, the only

01:40:04.479 --> 01:40:06.500
ones that get their chest all puffed out when

01:40:06.500 --> 01:40:10.899
you make eye contact. Yeah. Yeah. Some little

01:40:10.899 --> 01:40:13.359
league, little league t -ball game or at a bar.

01:40:13.399 --> 01:40:17.300
Yeah, exactly. All right. Well, speaking of that,

01:40:17.380 --> 01:40:19.560
then if people first want to learn about the

01:40:19.560 --> 01:40:21.300
guiding and those kinds of things that you do

01:40:21.300 --> 01:40:23.640
in that area, where are the best places to go

01:40:23.640 --> 01:40:26.699
for that? Oh man, just, just come to social media.

01:40:26.739 --> 01:40:29.020
Just my Instagram. I'm an open book. They can

01:40:29.020 --> 01:40:31.899
DM me. They can send me a message. You drop a

01:40:31.899 --> 01:40:36.180
comment. We're, Yeah, always open to talk and

01:40:36.180 --> 01:40:37.760
interact with people that either want to learn

01:40:37.760 --> 01:40:40.479
more or come join us out for a dive or do something.

01:40:40.579 --> 01:40:43.840
So easy to find. What's your handle on social

01:40:43.840 --> 01:40:47.159
media? What is it? Cameron C? Hold on. You're

01:40:47.159 --> 01:40:48.460
going to have to edit this part. That's all right.

01:40:48.579 --> 01:40:51.680
I don't remember. Yeah. It's chriscameron, my

01:40:51.680 --> 01:40:55.579
name, dot cc. chriscameron .cc. Perfect. That's

01:40:55.579 --> 01:40:57.979
it. All right. Yeah. Well, Chris, I want to thank

01:40:57.979 --> 01:41:00.000
you so much. It's been such an amazing conversation.

01:41:00.159 --> 01:41:02.539
Thank you to Drew again. But I mean, you know,

01:41:02.560 --> 01:41:04.380
you've got this person that works in law enforcement,

01:41:04.439 --> 01:41:06.479
then it's wow, they're a pilot in law enforcement.

01:41:06.520 --> 01:41:08.739
That's interesting. Oh, by the way, they dive

01:41:08.739 --> 01:41:11.279
with sharks and all this kind of thing. So, so

01:41:11.279 --> 01:41:13.500
many areas there. But again, the parallels when

01:41:13.500 --> 01:41:16.119
we're talking about excellence, and, you know,

01:41:16.119 --> 01:41:20.479
the, the, what's the right word of saying? Fuck,

01:41:20.479 --> 01:41:21.739
I'm going to have to edit that out now. What

01:41:21.739 --> 01:41:24.000
am I trying to say? You're on a roll. Yeah, I

01:41:24.000 --> 01:41:25.739
know. I was doing really well. We got to one

01:41:25.739 --> 01:41:31.619
minute 36. All right. And the minute margin for

01:41:31.619 --> 01:41:34.159
error when it comes to mistakes in what you do

01:41:34.159 --> 01:41:36.220
is the same for us. We push the wrong drug on

01:41:36.220 --> 01:41:39.060
a child and they're dead. So, so many parallels

01:41:39.060 --> 01:41:41.880
between the expertise that you have and a lot

01:41:41.880 --> 01:41:44.000
of the people listening. So I want to thank you

01:41:44.000 --> 01:41:45.920
so much for being so generous with your time

01:41:45.920 --> 01:41:47.899
today and coming on the Behind the Shield podcast.

01:41:49.000 --> 01:41:50.699
thank you James thank you for everything you

01:41:50.699 --> 01:41:52.619
do man we really appreciate it thanks for having

01:41:52.619 --> 01:41:52.840
me