This episode is sponsored by TeamBuildr, yet
another company that's doing great things for
the first responder community. As a strength
and conditioning coach myself who also trains
tactical athletes, dissemination of wellness
information is one of the biggest challenges.
Now TeamBuildr is the premier strength and conditioning
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several features that really impress me. Firstly,
there is a full exercise library. So you, the
personal trainer, does not have to create that
within your own department. Secondly, you can
send out programming, but also individualize,
which I love. So you blanket program for everyone.
Now you can tweak based on someone's injury,
someone's need to maybe drop some body composition,
rather than having to write a program for every
single person on their own. TeamBuildr also
allows you to build custom questionnaires to
collate health and wellness data. It integrates
with wearables. And I think one of the most important
things is obviously it tracks. To me, it's imperative
that we as a profession start tracking our people
from day one and then over the full span of their
career, therefore catching potential wellness
issues and injuries before they happen. Now,
if you want to try TeamBuildr, they are offering
you, the audience of the Behind the Shield podcast,
a free 14 -day trial to experience all of the
features. And if you want to take a deeper dive
into TeamBuildr, listen to episode 1032 with
Melissa Mercado or go to teambuilder .com. And
I'll spell that to you because it's not as you
think, T -E -A -M -B -U -I -L -D -R .com. Welcome
to the Behind the Shield podcast. As always,
my name is James Gearing and this week you have
an amazing opportunity to truly help a brother
firefighter in need. My guests today are Sam
Eaton and Richard Andrews and we will be talking
about Tom Bull Hill. Now, for any of you that
recognize the name, Bull was the man who picked
up a flag after losing multiple firefighter friends
and walked from Key West all the way up to Tallahassee
to raise awareness on not only the cancer, but
other elements on first responder health and
sadly death. Now, as Bull was proceeding through
the state, he himself had his own medical issues
and has recently been diagnosed with cancer.
So now this is an all call for you, the listener,
for everyone in the fire service, especially
if you are in Florida. As you will hear, Bull
was a huge force multiplier when it came to the
cancer initiative in this state, as well as magnifying
conversations in all the other areas. So my guest,
Sam Eaton, is a 30 -year veteran of the fire
service, former battalion chief for Palm Beach
County. And Richard Andrews has spent 23 years
as a firefighter and lieutenant in fire prevention
for Miami -Dade. Both of these men walked with
Bull and supported him for multiple miles, as
did I. And as I said, this is now your chance
to truly give back. As I underline the conversation,
there are some initiatives where it's not so
much money that people need. It's support, it's
community, it's maybe access to treatment. But
in this particular case, every single dollar
that is raised will help put Bull back on his
feet. So I will put the fundraising links on
the show notes for this page, on the accompanying
web page, and then all of the social media promos
that we do as well. So look for the link, click,
make sure you don't add an extra donation to
the site itself, put zero there. That will guarantee
that every single penny that you are generously
donating will go to the cause itself. So with
that being said, I introduce to you Sam Eaton
and Richard Andrews. Enjoy. Start by saying welcome
to the podcast. I know that we have got Richard
joining us in a little bit. We don't know exactly
when, so we're just going to start off with you
and I, and then we'll progress through. So as
I said before, thank you so much for coming on
the Behind the Shield podcast today. I really
appreciate this opportunity, James. This is amazing.
I've followed you for some time, and clearly
you're one of those opportunities for our culture
to get the word out about things that are actually
pivotal and important to the career. Thank you
for having me on. Yeah, well, we've obviously
got a very incredible human being that's connected
to the two of us. So we'll talk about Bull in
a little bit. Just as a preface, though, I'd
love to hear about your kind of overview of your
early life and then what drew you to the fire
service. So I was basically a Floridian. I've
been here since I was six years old on West Palm
Beach. I'm coming up on 60 this year. That puts
me in about, you know, what is that, 50, 54 years,
something to that effect. Raised by two wonderful,
very devout Christian parents. Certainly were
in leadership for the church, the churches they
were part of. And my background, my father was
tell people all the time. So my dad was in World
War II and they go, there's no way. And I go,
yeah, my dad be 111 if he was alive today. And
and the to have a father that was part of the
greatest generation and his the way what he instilled
in me and certainly my mother as well. The work
ethic that she had that certainly led led a lot,
had a lot of an impact on who I am today. And
I think of them very often when I think about.
the few successes that I've had in my career
and things of that nature. Beautiful. Well, Richard's
already joined us, so that's perfect timing.
So, Richard, we're just kind of touching on early
life. Tell me about, you know, the kind of environment
that you grew up in before you entered the fire
service. It's a two -parent household, my mom
and dad. I grew up in the same city I pretty
much live in now, so haven't traveled too far.
Went to all the local schools. I still support
all those local schools in the community. It's
been fantastic. It's pretty neat because I'm
raising two boys now that are 16 and 14, and
they're still in the same community I grew up
with. They're not going to the exact same school,
but the same neighborhood and see a lot of the
same people. It's pretty interesting. And I grew
up in Cooper City, which is in Broward County,
Florida. And it seems that first responder route
was a very popular choice for a lot of our graduating
members. So I see a lot of the people I grew
up with in the service, which is pretty awesome.
My wife just came home after almost four years
at Nova Southeastern as an optometrist, doctor
of optometry. So she was staying in Cooper City,
just on the edge of Cooper City and Davie. So
you know it well. Yeah, it's a fantastic program
over there. My wife's actually a graduate from
Nova as a doctor of audiology. And we know quite
a few of the doctors in the eye program over
there. It's been great. Absolutely. I know some
graduates as well. That's fantastic. Yeah, it's
a good school. Expensive, but good. Yes. So you're
asking what led me into the fire service. And
I guess that's the next thing on this. It would
be just, I was a lifeguard. And I had a situation
that I couldn't fix as a head lifeguard at the
age of 17. Kind of crazy to think, but I didn't
know how to handle the emergency medical situation
that was presented with me. And it led me into
an EMT program in Palm Beach County. And then
when I got... in an ambulance at that point,
going code three, lights and siren, busting through
lights. I go, they pay you for this? I'm in.
So it's funny how I didn't grow up pushing fire
trucks and thinking I'm going to be a firefighter,
but it literally was the EMS side that led me
into it. And I ended up working in the ambulance
companies for about six years before I finally
got hired by Palm Beach County Fire Rescue in
1991. When you said lifeguard, was it pool lifeguard
or were you working on the beach? It was a pool.
I did try out for the beach. I wasn't a strong
enough swimmer, and I wasn't able to make the
grade on that. But it was a pool lifeguard, yes.
This is something I've had quite a few ocean
lifeguards on. I was a lifeguard for a long time.
I even did it again when I was back on shift
in Orange County. But when you talk about fitness
standards in the fire service, In the lifeguarding
world, if you don't pass your research, you're
not a lifeguard anymore. So I found it so crazy
that you have this high bar set at the academy
and then you walk through the door and they're
like, oh, no, no, we don't test you after that.
What is your perception of that, being a lifeguard
yourself? I am constantly astounded at the lowering
of standards and the benchmarks that continue
to be an issue for the fire service. We are tactical
athletes. We are, and we're on 24 hours throughout
the entire year. It's not like we have a season
or something like that. Well, we do have a season,
Rich, right? But that being said. It is a nonstop
job. And I'll tell you, for me, as a firefighter
through my 30 years with Palm Beach County Fire
Rescue, and you can ask the exercise physiologist
there, I would always ask them, give me what
the punks are doing. I want to know what the
20 -year -olds are doing. Give me the benchmark
for that because that's what I'm shooting for.
And that is a real gauge of where I am aging.
And I would always strive to keep my numbers
as close as I could to the young guys and girls.
I do believe that there is an importance of being
physically fit all the way through your career.
Your life depends on it. Your crew's life depends
on it. Of course, the public depends on that.
Absolutely. It's amazing with the ocean lifeguards
that they start off, you know, Hollywood Beach
is where I had my biggest exposure with the lifeguards
there for the city of Hollywood. And at the start
of their shift, they'll do a half a mile run,
half a mile swim. just to warm up for their day
right off the beach there. And that's a standard
how they start. And it's just an amazing benchmark.
And then when they have to qualify, the time
is just, it's a pretty tough time. And I don't
think they've wavered from that throughout the
years. I still think they hold up that standard.
Absolutely. Well, I mean, I was talking at the
FPF conference the other day, you know, and saying
that when you create an environment for fitness
standards, then you can put them back. And I
think this is why, you know, flogging a dead
horse. When I talk about the 42 hour work week,
now you've created an environment that allows
people to rest and recover. Now you can put that
benchmark up and say, no, no, this is actually
a standard now. Like if you don't meet it, you
have to go through, you know, whatever it is
to either meet that standard or maybe transition
into a different department under the fire. Because
as you said, lives depend on you. This isn't
something that we can just kind of grandfather
you in on. 100%. absolutely and so it's it i
get asked quite a bit from some of our go ahead
no which go ahead I get asked that from quite
a few of the stations I go to all the time, and
the guys are really – a lot of them are thirsting
for a minimum physical fitness standard. It's
obviously – there's a half that doesn't want
it, but I think it's coming. I don't know how
that's going to present itself, but with the
42 -hour work week, with rest being one of the
most important things for longevity and health,
that proper sleep pattern that you can get and
increase by that new work week, I think it will
be a forefront conversation following. Once we
get a larger number of departments onto the 42
hour work week. Yeah. Sam, what were you going
to say? No, I was going to say that. I think
that I, when I look at the, the, the fitness
standards again, you know, I remember when I
came in in 1991 I mean, we're, we're ready to
go. And When I left the fire service at Palm
Beach County, I was amazed at how many were not
ready, even coming in. I just couldn't believe
the recruitment had gotten to the point where
we would have people that could make it through.
And I looked at them, I said, they couldn't have
held a standard to those earlier 90s and 2000s
when we had a clear benchmark on what was required
and what was really expected, physically speaking.
I think that's an issue across the board, and
that's what I was just going to say. It certainly
is nothing like an ocean lifeguard, for sure.
Yeah, well, I've always said this. Firstly, the
Florida certification is labeled minimum standards.
So no one can say, oh, it's not fair. We were
told that was the shittiest you should ever be
in your whole career. Secondly, for me, I don't
know if you remember, it was kind of revered
back then, but I went through Hialeah's Academy.
I got hired by them in 2004. And we were a non
-cert supposedly, but half the group was certified
because this was an environment where it was
so competitive and they beat the hell out of
us. But it was so good because it set the bar
high. It told James Gearing, okay, this is where
you need to be as a firefighter. And so I carried
it through and I maintained my fitness. The danger
of lowering the standards is now you're asking
people that have become deconditioned to go and
meet that bar, which is so much harder than just
maintaining it from the front door. Absolutely.
That's a great conversation about this. And it
leads into all the health issues that we have
later on in our career. And certainly that's
why, you know, all three of us here, from the
standpoint of health and safety for the fire
service, it is a pivotal and important mission.
It's part of what we, I know that from my standpoint,
definitely for our organization, the Florida
Firefighter Safety and Health Collaborative,
it is certainly benchmarks that we try to maintain
and create and maintain for the fire service.
Absolutely. Well, Richard, give us a kind of
introduction to how you found the fire service
and your kind of on -ramp experience initially.
So it was interesting that Sam started with Lifeguard
because I was also a lifeguard for the Broward
County system. So I worked at one of our local
parks, C .B. Smith, and that was my first exposure
to any kind of emergency treatment, CPR, you
know, as a young individual. Also, it helped
that, you know, my entire team and... Cross country
worked at the park, so we also had practice on
half the breaks and it definitely helped us be
a little bit better. But that was my first exposure.
But it didn't catch on right then. I enjoyed
it. It was a great job. But then I went to school
and I started I was a numbers guy. So I was an
accountant and learning that and sitting in the
classroom and seeing all of that. And and probably
about halfway through that, I realized I'm not
going to be an office person. I like to be outside.
I'm active. So I started just kind of. pursuing
what my options were. And coming out of high
school, I signed up for all options that were
on the table. I didn't shut any doors because
you never know what tomorrow will bring. And
it just so happened that I get a call two years
after I graduated that I've been accepted to
the Broward Fire Academy. So I said, hey, this,
you know, I remember the emergency response that
I learned as a lifeguard. And I had a few friends
that had parents that were lifeguards, I mean,
firefighters. And I was like, this is an option.
I'm going to go down this route. So I went and
took the the old CPAT that they first offered
and performed quite well, scored high. And I
said, this, this is it. I mean, I love the competitive
nature of that right there competing against
everybody that was applying and kind of just
immersed myself in it from there and was on the
fast track, you know, went right through Fire
Academy, EMT, paramedic, and just stayed on that
track and was fortunate enough. This was 1999
and then was fortunate enough to finish that
and pretty much get hired right after I finished
all of those certs. I got hired first on the
West Coast, the Bonita Springs, and then Miami
-Dade called and hired me right before my first
shift over there. So I do feel bad for those
guys over there. It was a tough transition, but
I knew, you know, growing up on the East Coast
here and all my family here, that this was a
better fit. I didn't necessarily know it was
going to be Miami -Dade. I didn't travel too
far south unless I was going to a Hurricanes
game. um prior to that but i've learned a lot
about miami and there's a lot of culture here
and a great environment and i've enjoyed every
second of it being in miami -dade county how
competitive was it i'll keep with you richard
then we'll go to sam how competitive was it back
then to obtain a single position as a firefighter
I remember going through a lot of smaller departments,
especially most of the ones in Broward, and being
an applicant of 100 people. Going through the
process, and they took your exact time. Every
second counted on their physical agility test.
Every second counted on their swim test. Just
the process of going through the interview, sitting
in front of tables with... Six, seven chiefs
across the other as a young man not having much
life experience and sitting across from these
men hitting you with pretty advanced fire questions.
I remember the city of Palm Beach's test process
was pretty competitive. They drop a video on
a TV and leave me in a room with a camera on
me. And they told me, pick apart this fire scene
and tell me what's going right and what's going
wrong. And I barely knew the minimum standards
at that point. So it was quite interesting. But
then Miami -Dade obviously was taking applications.
And if you want to see competitive, I think 14
,000 people applied when I was going through
that process. And the first step was a 50 % lottery.
So it didn't matter who you were. You were either
in or out. So 7 ,000 made it through. I was fortunate
enough because I remember other young men and
co -classmates in paramedic school, their parents
worked for Miami -Dade and they didn't make it
past the lottery. So I definitely consider that
a blessing early on and knew what was going on
there. It just so happened that I made it through
their process. And here I am. Sam, what about
your experience? Well, I said that I was an ambulance
company for six years, not because I wanted to,
because it took me that long going through Riviera
Beach, Palm Beach, Palm Beach County, of course,
West City of West Palm, Delray, Boca, Boynton.
I was applying everywhere. And the competition
was just. incredible. If you had one thing going
against you, one little mark or something, you're
automatically off the list. Like Richard's talking
about, I don't remember numbers like that, but
we were clearly 1 ,000 to 2 ,000 people applying
for five positions every time you went in. So
you knew that they were looking for that. And
of course, there was other things, other elements
that were going on there with affirmative action
and things of that nature. So that played a little
role in who got selected first. That kind of
stuff is very... Very frustrating to go through
that year after year. But when I got the call,
man, I literally felt like I hit the lottery.
Mention the word lottery. I remember specifically
where I was sitting when Palm Beach County called
me and said, you're in. And I was in my office
at the ambulance company, and they heard me from
three rooms away. I was so excited. So it wasn't
easy, and it still isn't. but i feel like back
then it was the competition was just incredible
people understood uh what the fire service was
about it was a little bit different back then
i think maybe in a lot of ways i believe the
people coming in had a different passion for
the job i think i feel like um We weren't striving
for pensions or salaries. We wanted to be firefighters,
man. We wanted to do the job. So that's a little
bit of the difference I feel today as compared
to what we're seeing in recruitment. But, man,
that takes me back. It's interesting. I went
down to see my old training lieutenant, who's
a chief now, I believe, and one of my classmates
at Hialeah. They're there, and he's in training
as well now. And it was crazy just being on the
grinder, getting to just enjoy myself. All these
recruits are getting beat up. But firstly, they
referred to that one hiring class that we were
a part of as Navy SEAL Hell Week. So I guess
it was never as bad as that again. But I discovered
that we tested against, I don't know exactly,
but hundreds and hundreds of people for that
class. And that was non -cert. But the real kind
of underlining of how competitive it was is I'd
totally forgotten about this. I just started
talking about this a few weeks ago. We didn't
know how much we were going to get paid. HireLid
didn't advertise a salary. And we all still applied.
Hundreds of us still applied. And we found out,
I think it was about three weeks into it. So
that compared to now. But I think there's good
and bad. Obviously, if you have such a high demand,
then it's very easy not to. address the things
that will take care of your people because there's
an unending line of them. Conversely, now you've
got this whole, you know, the pendulum swung
the other way where now they're trying to lure
people in with hiring bonuses and this and that.
And now the focus has kind of been made on the
numbers rather than the desire. So I feel not
again, not trying to revisit this topic too much.
But when we go to the 42 hour work week and we
get that balance right, I think you're really
going to see a lot of people lock back into the
calling rather than the benefits themselves.
Absolutely. Absolutely. I really hope that that's
the results from it. It's interesting to talk
about the 42 -hour work week. And you know a
lot about it, your presentation on it. And it
is not what it was in the early 2000s when you
applied with hundreds of people. I think there
are expansions and the cities are growing. Our
population of Florida has taken off. So the need
for service is there. But we're having to recruit
more than we ever have versus having that pool
of people. And Sam is 100 percent right on the
reasons behind some of the applicants. Now, it's
not necessarily 100 percent of the drive to be
a first responder. There's the other aspects
there. But while more and more departments implement
the 42 hour work week, whatever format that presents
itself. these smaller departments are definitely
going to have a retention issue and it's it's
going to be interesting that's probably a much
longer conversation but these people are going
to have to get on board because there's going
to be a lot of movement of experienced firefighters
i think around the state greater than we've ever
seen Yeah, well, I think firstly, with the 42,
you're going to see an increase in retention.
And someone told me that they thought that about
20 % of Florida certified firefighters aren't
working as firefighters. So you probably see
some come out the woodwork. You'd have people
that were going to retire, not anymore. I was
talking to Dr. Peter Antebi the other day, Palm
Beach, I think it was Broward. People that were
going to retire aren't because of this whole
blood being so effective in the field on trauma.
that they're getting all these saves now. So
some of their really passionate medics are staying
longer to try and get it under their belt. But
I wonder if some of the people that focused on
the benefits were always there, but we used to
take the top 10, 5 % of the list. Now we're taking
the top 40, 50 % of the list. So now you're being
forced to get some of those. You see what I mean?
So I think it's both sides of the coin. But I
think if you change the profession... we will
go back to the entire country having people lining
up around the doors. But it's going to take time,
and the early adopters are going to get to choose
the best people. It's just that simple. Sure.
That's going to be great results. I hope that's
the trend that definitely comes from it. Absolutely.
Well, talking about the other side of that, the
environment that we were raised in, the 56 -hour
work weeks, and then sadly the devolution to
all this mandatory overtime, I'll start with
you, Sam. Through your eyes as a firefighter,
talk to me about some of the illnesses that you
started seeing manifesting in the men and women
that you work with. Illnesses and injuries would
be two things, right? I think the fatigue of
the job and the repetitive nature of it is always
going to play into those issues, the physical
issues and aspects of it. And certainly that
is, as we get older, when you change it from
a 25 and out situation to a 30 and out, when
you get older, those injuries are certainly very
plaguing. But really the disease process, I didn't
know that my first district chief was going to
get cancer. And that was Henry Cassell, my first
leader. And this guy never took a sick day in
his life. We literally had banked, we were able
to bank our hours back then. So we had like 30
,000 hours or some crazy amount of hours. I don't
know what it was, but, you know, a lot of hours
saved and he was going to use that to help him
in retirement. And his last few years, he got
diagnosed with a terminal case of cancer and
didn't make it even into retirement. Those first,
those early on, there were people that were physically
fit that were coming down with cancer. So I'm
honing in on the one thing. There's a lot of
other disease processes and things that affect
us. But certainly cancer is the number one thing
on my mind. And we would see people and some
of the people in the top shape of their life.
All of a sudden, they're not with us anymore.
And we're going to these funerals. And there
was no back then. There was no connection like
this. The job's creating this. We're just like,
what? What? I can't believe it. Jerry, Henry,
Butch, what's going on here? We couldn't believe
these numbers, these people were passing and
how young they were. And these cancers that we
were getting were very aggressive. And finally,
we started putting things together as a department.
But this was happening nationally and obviously
in other parts as well. So we began to realize
that the job was taking its toll on firefighters.
And then the first thing was, how do we make
people aware of this? And of course, right after
this, how do we start training and preventing?
So to you, Richard, we'll talk about the same
question and we'll go into the kind of, you know,
what's happened since then. But what did you
start seeing as far as, and it can be mental
health as well, you know, just the impact of
the job on the men and women that you serve with?
There's multiple ways. I mean, obviously, the
cancer is one of the biggest ones. The job exposure
to these carcinogens and everything that we face.
Definitely, we saw the increased numbers of cancer
and the shock of the names that constantly kept
popping up. And obviously, the expansion of our
physicals have caught more and more of them.
And you see that list grow way too fast and have
been to way too many funerals because of cancer.
But going back to... All the aspects of the job
and just the repeated exposure to the traumas
that we see, the lack of sleep. You know, the
longest stint of my career was at Station 29
in Sweetwater, one of our busier stations in
the county. And it's called the meat grinder
for a reason, because it takes good, healthy,
quality firemen into the machine and spits them
out as nothing at the end. And I saw it too often,
that sleep deprivation. does not recover in time
before your next shift comes there. The other
part is, is nobody wants to work there. So you're,
you're the one constantly picking up the other
shifts and you get the mandatory overtime because
no one else will work that off going truck. So
you just spend 12 more hours on the busiest truck
in the County or one of the busier trucks in
the County. And that adds up. And that I've seen
it far too often for, for people coming through
my station that leads to the alcoholic, you know,
the alcohol. crutch that they lean on now just
so they can decompress when they get off shift
because they're wired. And that's how they make
it through the next day just to calm down. And
not everyone is fortunate enough to go through
that and then be able to throttle down and control
it. And I've seen it abused and lost too many
friends to that illness of alcoholism because
of the stress of the job. It's unfortunately
really there. It's the sleep deprivation catches
up to you. I haven't done a science experiment
on what the sleep deprivation does, but I can
speak for myself. After spending such a long
time there, I've been fortunate enough to stay
relatively healthy. But when I go to my doctor's
appointment for my physical every year, all of
my levels would be at the high end. My liver
enzymes would be at the high end. My cholesterol
would be at the high end. Everything was just
pushing the limit. Once I left that station and
just went to a slower station, it wasn't a shutdown
station. I still ran calls, but it wasn't 29.
My next year, everything went back to midline.
Nothing else changed rather than not being at
that station. And if that's not, I mean, that's
the firsthand proof that I have that what the
stress of this job does and not including the
long -term effects of everything you see being
at a busy station like that. It's just what it
is. It's when we run these calls, all stations,
it doesn't have to be busy. They get, every station
gets these calls. It's every city, every street
corner has accidents. And depending on, you know,
you're exposed to that all of the time and it
wears on you over time for sure. And I've noticed
it, you know, I'm not retired. I still have years
left, but 23 years is what I have on just over
23 years now. And it's, I can see it's, it's,
it's the example of the cup. The cup is going
to fill up and. When you're at those busy stations
and the guys that then rely on the alcohol to
calm down, that cup doesn't properly drain. It's
there. The 48 hours is not enough time to drain
that cup to an appropriate level for you to fill
it back up. And these cups are overflowing. And
that's why it's such an important issue that
we talk about the mental health and the decompressing
and proper self -awareness and hygiene is what
it comes down to. Absolutely. Sam, you're nodding
your head. Anything you want to add on that side
of things? I agree with everything that Rich
is talking about. We've lost so many firefighters,
brothers, that I can see them in my mind right
now that have taken their own life. And it just
boggles your mind. And everybody's asking, how
do we fix this? How do we fix this? How do we
fix this? You have to really, to literally reimagine
what the fire service looks like, you have to
start thinking about what is creating the most
stressors on these firefighters and how can we
do it. We're never going to eliminate the job.
We're never going to eliminate the mental exposures.
We are part of that culture. We're driven by
a mission to protect the public, and we're going
to be thrust into these situations. So the only
thing that makes sense is to force the limitation
by creating. longer rest periods, an ability
to decompress from these things, and also something
I think that we're really missing. I believe
that we're missing the opportunity to proactively
deal with this mental health crisis. I think
the best thought process is this. I think every
firefighter, mandatorily, every year, has to
go in and talk to a psychiatrist for one hour.
And if you make it mandatory, think about this
for a second. If it's part of that That annual
process where you get your fitness test, you
get your medical, physical, you get your mental
done. You have to go in and get this done to
get checked off for your next year. You all of
a sudden, everybody's like, well, I don't need
to go. I need to do that. If everybody has to
do it the first couple of years, people say,
I don't know why I'm here. Sessions over in 10
minutes. But now you're coming up for your annual.
You're having some issues. I don't have to schedule
anything. I have to go see the person. Nobody's
going to think anything about it. And I have
to go in and sit down with a psychiatrist and
say, you know what, doc, the last two years I've
been fine, but I'm glad I'm here today because
I need to talk to you about some calls that are
really bugging me. It's starting to affect my
marriage. I want to have a conversation. That
firefighter didn't have to do anything. They
didn't have to schedule something. They'd have
to contact somebody. It's a proactive thought
process to put that firefighter, that first responder
in the seat in front of that clinician. every
year and say, hey, everything good? I'm fantastic.
Maybe everybody does that the first year. But
I think what you'd see is people would be more
open to having that discussion now with a clinician
that can actually give them the help they need.
So it's just a thought. One thing that I've talked
a lot after being educated on this show by some
of these experts on the prevalence of childhood
trauma in the uniform professions. is looking
at it a different way. We PT on you recruits
from day one. What if we had a conversation and
the money is there? Take away the polygraph.
I led my way through three of them. They're bullshit.
And then the MMPI was never meant to be a standalone
psych test. The one that we were given with all
those hundreds of questions is part of what they
call forensic psychology. So you have a gamut
of tests and then it builds a picture of this
person. We use one of them and say, okay, Sam
either is or is not going to be a good firefighter.
It's a box -checking, ridiculous thing. And again,
I was talking to a Virginia Beach firefighter,
and they didn't know where their shift schedule
even came from originally. That's the problem.
Where did the MMPI even come from that we use
as a national standard? So take away those, do
a solid background check, do a solid written,
a solid physical, a solid medical, and then the
money that you would have wasted on polygraphs
and psych tests, put that into... five, six counseling
sessions during the first six months of the academy
or probation. And you initiate the conversation
with the fact that you stood, you know, you towed
the line to be a firefighter or a cop means that
you probably had some struggles in your past.
Now, when you work through them, those struggles
become absolute strengths. If you bury them deep,
they're going to rear their ugly head somewhere,
you know, where it's not going to be a good time.
So getting them to understand that to be a better
firefighter, you do the work mentally as well.
And then, as you said, then you start checking
in, you know, and then you so you have these
people that have, you know, an annual check in,
whatever it is. They've already got a relationship
with the counselor and you've normalized the
mental health conversation. We're all doing it.
So I think that is just add on to what you've
already said proactively. is when you understand
the kind of human that says, I want to go into
a burning building or cut dead kids out of a
car, that's a very special human being that's
been through some stuff usually. So let's talk
about that right from the first day. I love it.
I love it, man. Well, besides processing all
of that, that is an opportunity to provide healthy
tools and outlets to that first responder to
initiate early in their career so they're ahead
of a lot of the building of the issues that we
see throughout our career. hundred percent yeah
everything breath work you know meditation understanding
just putting your phone down all those things
all right well i don't want to burn up too much
time so let's talk about um bull specifically
so richard when did you first come across bull
and then um you know let's talk about what he's
doing through your eyes through your department
specifically so we First met Bull early on, you
know, obviously he had his history and everything,
his story on how he got to where he decided to
go to Key West and start walking. And that's
a long stretch. I know it takes forever to drive
from Miami to Key West. And he starts walking
and we had one of our members. a couple of our
members that are in the Keys all the time and
got wind of this down there. And they started
walking him out of the Keys and then brought
it back to us, to our board and made us aware
of it. And we expanded those resources. You know,
we heard his story. We realized, you know, what
he was trying to bring awareness to and what
his goal was and a lofty goal that was early
on. We, you know, we got him pretty fresh. paired
him up with a few families that we introduced
him to. And it was a great exposure. But I think
I first started walking. I first met him in person
just when he made it out of Homestead and walked
with him pretty much all the way through Dade
County to the Hollywood station, I think is where.
I handed him off. It took a couple days there.
The city handled him through one part. He pretty
much walked along the – we have a busway that
runs through Dade County. So it was a wide open
area. We got our benevolent involved, and they
kind of blocked off traffic and had a canteen
truck. And I think that was – our locals' exposure
to him. And we started utilizing social media
and just hearing his story and what he had been
through and his cause. We knew that, you know,
we had already been in Tallahassee fighting for
cancer coverage in the fire service. And it was
primarily, obviously, the cancer side of this.
We knew session was going to come again. And
this was always a fight. And we're like, you
know, this guy's really making a difference.
He's drawing attention to the issues. And once
you meet him, it's pretty much inevitable at
that point that you're going to – his charisma
and his passion is contagious, and you just want
to rally behind him. My kids were little at that
time. It's a few years back now. And they walked
with us one day, and they wanted to hear the
story. And then we started sharing the story.
And social media at the time was – it was still
a few years ago, but really helped spread the
word. And what – Bull accomplished by bringing
awareness to the cancer issue and the fire service,
to media, to social media, to the public. I don't
think we could thank him enough for that. But
also what he did, it's a key figure of time in
the fire service and first responders in the
state of Florida to bring us together. A lot
of us operated in a silo in our cities and in
our counties. But to watch him be handed off
from Miami -Dade County across the line through
Hollandale to the city of Hollywood and the welcoming
party they had for him at the station was remarkable.
And then following his path up the state, watching
the handoffs, watching the cities, watching the
counties, these departments come together and
support him all the way to Tallahassee. I mean,
I know it was a tough feat. It's amazing what
he accomplished. But to the point where spreading
the word, when he crossed from the East Coast
to the center of the state over Highway 50 through
the Winter Garden area, at this point, I think
Mission Barbecue rallied across there. They had
the media up there. My brother -in -law's family
lives right there. I told them, you have to go
experience what this man is doing. And it just
so happened, they said, I wish I had the picture.
They ended up on the newspaper with my nephew
meeting Bull and him welcoming him across the
state and just seeing the media frenzy behind
it. We can't thank him enough. And at that point,
what he did for us, his friendship just grew
from there. And I knew that I had a lifelong
friend and supporter of what was right in the
fire service. Absolutely. Well, I met Bull initially
through Orange County's Fitbit. Even though he'd
worked in the kind of battalion that I was in,
we kind of overlapped as far as our careers.
But that's when we started losing people. Shakey
was a big one that he was, you know, extremely
close to. But he started seeing his friends dying,
a lot of the squad guys. And so the 343 Hero
Challenge and some of those. And then a few years
later, you know, we did an interview. I can't
remember if it was before or after the walk or
if we did two. I'll get that and I'll put those
on the show notes for this as well. But we walked
with him through Marion County and I just had
knee surgery and my son was with me as well.
So we went up through 441 through Ocala there
for as long as it could before I had to tap out.
But yeah, I mean, just a guy that's been through
so much, overcome addiction, had strokes and
his focus is other people to the point where,
you know, we've all got to understand there's
a limit where it becomes detrimental. But that
servant's heart was reignited, especially when
he really transitioned out the fire service.
And kind of took on a Forrest Gump -esque journey
from Key West to Tallahassee to bring light to
the cancers, the mental health, everything, really.
But with that being said, that was kind of my
perspective in a nutshell. Sam, talk to me about
your bull experience. Walk, bull, walk, instead
of run, force, run. Man, I love listening to
that. Richard's referring to, I think, Randy
Brown and Adam Parks, right? Correct? Yes. Those
two guys rockstar. They saw it before anybody
else did. They saw the wave coming. My connection
to Bull started with a girl named Jen Clyer,
a firefighter for Palm Beach County Fire Rescue.
She worked for Orange County before coming to
Palm Beach County. And she had told me four or
five months before the walk, she says, hey, have
you heard about this guy Bull? Do you know Tom
Bull? She wanted to introduce him. I was like,
I don't got time for this. I've got too many
things going on. And then she called because
she contacts me again. She again, she says, can
you meet me down in Miami -Dade area? Actually,
just the top part of the Keys. And I said, why?
She goes, you've got to come see what's going
on. And I took her for a word and I came down
and he I saw the packs, the pack. I think it
was at that point. And I met Randy and Adam there.
And that was my first exposure to bowl. And I
was like, I wanted to kind of figure out what's
going on with this guy. Where's he coming from?
What's his agenda? You know, what's he up to?
You know, I got a little bit of, you know, I
don't know him. But I was immediately impressed.
And you could tell there was a different air
about this guy. And literally, I felt like we
finally had an opportunity to take what we'd
waited 16 years to get some kind of legislation
in place here in the state of Florida. And at
the time that he's marching for this, we had
four cancers that they were going to cover. They
were trying to... convince us, hey, at least
let's get the four cancers covered. There was
no female cancers. There's only four cancers.
One of them happened to be multiple myeloma cancer,
which was the cancer that my buddy got. But my
point is that at the time, they were trying to
get us to settle for four cancers. We weren't
having it. We didn't want it. We didn't wait
16 years to get four cancers covered. We should
have the best thing. I know the FPF and the locals
were working hard, like Rich talked about, so
many people to name. I don't want to start naming
people, but I'm telling you, there's so many
people that were working really hard at the same
time to get something in place, but nothing was
budging. So here's JP and Shakey pass away from
cancer. JP, independently, I believe this is
the story goes, they both said to Bull, I'm embarrassed.
They're on their deathbed. And they say, I'm
embarrassed that I chose the fire service because
I'm not leaving my family with anything. He said.
There is nothing more sacrilegious and he didn't
say this, but I'm saying his position on that
was how could that possibly be? How could. A
guy that served the public and did what he did
in his whole career, and this is what he says
on his deathbed, that should never happen. And
I know that he went with no agenda, no plan,
no plan, no people in place, no support, goes
down to Key West, takes a pack, says, I'm going
to walk, and I'm going to start talking. And
it was almost biblical in a lot of ways. I'll
just say that. It felt like almost, and I don't
want to. But Jesus, it was just like this prophet,
a prophet from another land coming through this
area. I was so impressed with him. I rushed back
to Palm Beach County. I went to, I saw what he
was doing. Miami -Dade was already working on
theirs. And I put this, this thing had 24 names.
It's got 34 now. 10 more people have died from
cancer since this happened in 2018. But we rushed
and got PATs cut as quickly as possible. And
we met him at the county line, Rich, like you
said, the pass off. And we strapped this thing
to his pack and this thing walked, went with
him. We started obviously supporting this guy.
I'd never seen somebody more unbridled, more
on point, more willing to get in somebody's face
and basically settle for nothing but a yes. He
was literally done with it. This, my history
on cancer prevention goes back to this helmet.
Rich has seen this many times. This helmet was
handed to me with no crosses on it. The guy that
handed it to me is right here, Butch Smith. This
guy here, Tim Monahan, driver -operator for Palm
Beach County Fire Rescue, made this helmet, made
this in retirement. Butch handed me this helmet
and said he was fighting cancer at the time.
Tim had already passed. He says, Tim wants you
to have this. Make sure every time you talk about
firefighter cancer, that it's present. This is
my way of making sure that gets done. But there
are firefighters from across the state, including
the city of Miami. Ralph Garcia on here. A number
of other departments are represented on this
helmet across the state. And this helmet, I want
to hold it up here. This helmet walked the state
with bull. This is Mike Sweeney's cross. This
is a battle scar from the walk. It's the only
one that's done this. And it's because people
were carrying it and it rubbed the cross raw.
I left it just where it was at. I put a smaller
one next to it. But my point is that this made
the walk. for most of the walk with Bull all
the way up the state into Tallahassee. I would
just say this. There's not a single person that
I know of in the fire service nationally or internationally
that's had more of an impact on a specific legislative
piece than that one individual, Tom Bull Hill.
That's the statement I'll stand on. I'll go to
my grave saying that because he really did something.
that nobody else could do he created a momentum
and a wave we had 1500 people walking down the
streets into tallahassee rich i know i'm not
sure if you were there or not we may not even
known each other time but they said we had to
stay on the sidewalk and then okay you can have
one lane they just had to shut the road down
because we were coming and the way that looked
and the impression that it made helped the legislators
see the impact that cancer had had on one walk
He had collected thousands of names of firefighters
that had lost their life to cancer and some that
had killed themselves from suicide. But the majority
of those were cancer things. And when you have
something like that, add that on top with the
boots that were on the hill, all the empty boots,
the packs, ashes of firefighters in packs. You
can't deny it any further. We had a unanimous
vote to finally get 21 cancers covered. In the
state of Florida, we went from four to 21. And
I don't think, I know, I'll say this. I know
it wouldn't have happened if Bull hadn't made
that statement. It wouldn't have gone through
like it did. And I do appreciate the work that
he's done on that. Bull going on, starting the
walk as the starting point and his drive being
so powerful and contagious and his sincerity.
And every man's fireman. He's gone through a
lot of the turmoils that he relates to so many
different firefighters. The fact that his drive
was so strong and he rallied the fire service
across the state together. is what launched the
effort that went into that next session, you
know, going into the impact of everyone marching
down towards the Capitol, awakening, you know,
opening the legislators' eyes, starting session
with all of those boots outside the Capitol with
a unified front because we were all working together.
We couldn't have done it with the amount of people
that came together to do that. And then putting
all of the gear around the Capitol for that entire
session, we did not let them forget. And everybody
from around the state kept pushing and pushing
their reps, their senators, and not letting them
forget what they saw walking down towards the
Capitol when 1 ,500 firefighters came together.
So it was definitely, it's such a... A highlight
of my career, for sure, being part of that. To
Rich's point, and I want to make sure this is
clear, we know, when I say bull, it took everybody
to make this happen. There are many organizations
that were working. The Firefighter Cancer Support
Network, our organization, the Sylvester Comprehensive
Cancer Center was supporting Bull's Walk. And
certainly the FPF and the locals that were grinding
at the legislative, we had somebody had to put
the packet together. But my point is, I guess
my point is the momentum that it created and
the optics it created made it a no brainer and
made it a situation where if you voted against
it, you were literally. they knew they were voting
against the state and a wave of firefighters
are willing to get out and walk for free, not
getting paid. We're not paid actors. We're walking
up to the state. We know that this needs to happen.
And I think it gave, I feel like that momentum
is the one thing that's finally solidified something
for us that is really better than almost any
state in the nation. We have one of the most
fantastic firefighter cancer bills and it's,
it's paid. It has paid out. multiple times from
multiple firefighters already and helped them
and supported them just exactly what Bull wanted.
And so that's the icing on the cake, if you will.
But a lot of people had a lot to do with making
it happen too. So many great people and organizations
that were all fighting for that. It was the unifying
effort that it did that bring us together. That
was that synergistic force to make it happen.
And I think we're almost at that point. And there's
so many great organizations right now with mental
health and providing so many services across
the state that we almost need something to bring
everyone together. Because I think if they all
came together, we could really have something
next level and really bring the mental health
assistance to it. another level. So I don't know
what that is, but that unified front is really
what brought all those great organizations together
to get the cancer coverage bill passed. Well,
Rich, you said, use the word that I use a lot
siloed earlier. And I think this is it. I, when
I did a presentation the other day, I'm asked
for data on why do I think the 42 hour work week
is going to be healthier? And I say very sarcastically.
So you want a research study to show that 56
is more detrimental than 42. Come on now, put
your big boy pants on. But that being said, If
you ask for the data on how many firefighters
we lost in 2024, the number is 74. Now you ask
everyone standing in Tallahassee, I guarantee
you there's 74 people in the state that they
know of, whether it's the cancers or the overdose,
the suicides, whatever, that number is a tip
of the iceberg. So I think by what Bill did is
it unified everyone because we are so siloed.
And sadly, you know, I mean, I'm a very... pro
-union when it's done properly but if it's not
done properly and self -serving it can be very
detrimental but what he did kind of what you
know the the national should have done which
is pull us all together and when you start comparing
notes you're like wait a second there's not 74
people that we've lost but the people with the
you know looking at the numbers are going oh
well it's getting better but we'll just keep
doing it When the obvious, you know, we all know
that that's absolutely rubbish. So what Bull
did really was pull everyone together, remove
all the statistics and data and all the PowerPoints
and just say, look, look at this group of people.
Ask every single one if they know that, you know,
have they lost someone? You would have 1500 hands
raise up. That's the point. So I think that was
what was so powerful. Now, I'll get like I said,
I'll get the episode number. But, you know, Bull
has done this despite. huge amount of challenges,
even the ripple effect of this took its toll
for a while as well. So Sam, talk to me about
some of the struggles he's going through now
and how can we collectively, the listeners, start
helping Bull in return? Again, I can't thank
you enough for this opportunity, James. I found
out in January that Bull was having some health
issues and I reached out to him and literally
What made me reach out to him was it wasn't about
the cancer. But when I finally got a hold of
him, he had just been diagnosed with kidney cancer.
So here's a guy that had since the walk has gone
through so much anguish, so many physical ailments.
Everything from his knee to his back, he ends
up having, he had the stroke. Of course, everybody
knows about that. The stroke that he fought through
so valiantly and actually got himself right back
to where he needed to be. The guy's a testament
just on that alone. But before the cancer diagnosis,
he went, it was like Job. He kept, stuff kept
happening to him. And up until including. He's
got brain fog. He's dealing with mental health
crisis and stuff like that. Ends up losing his
insurance. And sometime back in October, while
he's off insurance, he goes into and he allowed
me. He told me I could share these things. So
I'm telling you stuff that he's allowed me to
say and represent. It's all part of what we're
doing campaign wise for him. But he got he ended
up driving. He's driving on the road. He got
congestive heart failure and ended up in an uncontrolled
atrial tachycardia or atrial fibrillation and
had to get. get treated in a hospital. And I
forgot where it was exactly, but he gets to get
treated for that. He has a halter monitor. He's
got all kinds of stuff going on with that. Finally
gets back on insurance. So all that happened
off insurance. So his medical bills, just from
that one thing alone are astounding. He already
had medical bills for, for that. He and I'm don't
want to be all over the place with this, but
prior to that, he's building a foundation. He
built the fire hood foundation. He was giving
of his own. retirement money to get that thing
going the way he wanted to get it going. So he's
already kind of putting himself out there. And
then all these medical things happen. He ends
up just burning through so much of his own retirement
just to stay afloat. The hurricanes hit. So there's
a lot of information that his homes were destroyed
during the hurricanes, one thing after the other.
And then he gets his cancer diagnosis on top
of everything. Currently, he's post kidney surgery.
They believe they've got everything out of there,
but this just happened. Literally, this is new
information for a lot of people, but this happened
just last month. He has a kidney surgery. He's
about two weeks post -kidney surgery. I don't
know if he coughed wrong or something happened,
but for whatever reason, his surgery came undone.
He ended up getting... airlifted to a hospital
because he was losing blood so bad, two units
and they've got him back. But if you think about
a man that continues to get beat up, this is
the guy. We know a lot of people have needs out
there. We know there's a lot of people that are
fighting cancer, but there's nobody like Bull.
Bull has done so much. And I just, if I was to
say anything, this isn't the guy. This isn't
the guy that we walk away from. This is the guy
that we have to help. He helped so many people.
He gave himself nonstop without wanting to get
anything back. And here he is now in a desperate
need financially, physically, mentally. We talked
about the mental thing earlier. That's really
a big impact. So all of that being said. uh that
collectively is what we're looking at right now
we're we started a gofundme i'm not gonna go
funny it's a gibson go uh rich andrews has been
uh with me since we started it um it's about
about three months we had a goal initial goal
of a hundred thousand dollars we're almost at
70 which is fantastic but we want to get to that
actually want to well exceed the goal of a hundred
thousand dollars on this um So I'm going to stop
talking there, but there's a lot of stuff that
Rich could probably fill in on, but we really
wanted to do our best for it. And I'm really
appreciative of Local 1403 and just today, Local
2928 for digging amazingly deep to help support
Bull. Rich, please carry on. Yeah, what Sam was
saying pretty much summarized the situation that
Bull is in. what we've talked about with his
story that he's done for us, unifying us together.
Now it's time for us to unify for him. And that's
really what we're reaching out to. We've reached
out to a lot of our local fire departments and
people that we know in the community. And it's
been a grassroots effort. We've had a couple
of great individuals step up early and be large
sponsors to help Bull's situation because they
understand his story and respect what he did.
But now we're just trying to reach out to as
many people and let people know his story. His
story was so impactful of what he's done. The
Firehood Foundation, he poured everything into
that. He didn't hold back. He treated it as pretty
much his life and put all of his money, all of
his effort, all of his time. And he was talking
with firefighters, first responders across the
state early on before we had all these mental
health resources available. And he would reach
out and stay with these individuals until he
felt like he could let them go and get other
help. I mean, he put it all out there. And it's
our time to help him. It's been. an amazing experience
now for me since you know sam rallied a core
group of guys and girls together to kind of be
a support group for bull and i've every time
we meet or have a call i leave with more than
i could possibly give it's it's just listening
to everyone come together and watching the support
i think you know early on something i needed
you know it's it's Management is what it is.
It's definitely been a bigger divide between
management and firefighters and departments across
the state. And some of it is unavoidable. Some
of it is just the way the management style is
right now. But when Bull had to receive some
medical treatment down here in South Florida.
I had to see the City of Sunrise and their fire
department, their fire chief, their fire station,
the crews at that station right next to the Panthers
Arena, which is pretty busy right now. Go Panthers.
How they treated Bull, it restored my faith in
the fire service and what it's about. I tip my
hat to them. I thank them for giving me that
boost. I needed it to continue to do what I do.
And they did a fabulous job. And I think that
example needs to be shared with all fire departments
because that's how we should be treating, you
know, most of these situations when we reach
out. We need to take care of each other. This
is a brotherhood for a reason. And they did it
right. So thank you, City of Sunrise. Yes, absolutely.
Yeah. I hear people say, oh, the brotherhood,
sisterhood is dead. And I disagree completely.
You want to see brotherhood and sister go to
the 343 Hero Challenge in Orange County. You'll
see people that get it. Some of them are firefighters.
Some of them are crossfarers. They're all there
to honor people that have fallen and raise money
for people that need it. And I think that, you
know, when something happens, the knee jerk is
to raise money. And sometimes that's appropriate.
Sometimes maybe there's other ways. And even
in the past with Bull, we've helped him with
other elements, kind of supplements and mental
health counseling, some other things that were
directly connecting him with a resource. But
for example, in the mental health conversation
in general, a lot of times we don't need fundraising.
We need connection. We need people to show up.
We need to create communities. That's really
what is needed, not a pot of money. In this example,
though, it's an opportunity for someone to use
their money to actually help someone that genuinely
at this moment needs money because they have
given so much of themselves to this profession
that it is through, as we said, generosity and
then misfortune. They have now been put in a
huge deficit, which is very detrimental. The
pension's gone. You've got all these medical
bills. And sadly, we won't go into this tangent,
but we're not in a nation where we take care
of people regardless of their income. I think
this is such a beautiful opportunity for people
all over the country to just say, all right,
my $10, my $100, my $1 ,000, whatever it is,
is going directly to a person who needs every
single penny of this donation. Absolutely. I
think to your point, and I want to make this
clear with the people that are watching this,
I sat down with Bull right away. I said, listen,
we're going to drive to help you get whole. We're
going to work hard at that. I want you to promise
me, and he did. I want you to promise me that
these funds are going to be for you and your
family. This is not to start to support the Firehood
Foundation. This is for you, personal funds,
to get you back to where you need to be. He's
well below in the deficit of $300 ,000, and that's
without the medical bills. So we really need
the financial support to get him where he'll
have at least some kind of financial support
moving forward. Rich brought up Sunrise Fire.
fire department. I want to also say along with
that, I want to thank the University of Miami
Sylvester Comprehensive Cancer Center, Dr. Aaron
Kobitz. The reason he was down there was they
were facilitating finally to get him a comprehensive
look at his health. He's got so many things going
on. So that's why he was down in Sunrise and
he's going to end up following up with them as
well. So they've embraced Bull to support him.
And I also want to, I have to say this, I don't
know why, but I feel I want to call them out.
The organizations, the locals that have donated
to Bull. Starting with the top three, Local 2928,
Local 587, and Local 1403, all donating $1 ,403,
$2 ,587, and $2 ,928 collectively. Osceola's
Benevolent, the Winter Garden Professional Firefighters,
Mount Doors Local, Palm Beach County Retirees,
292650 Foundation, Alachua's Local. Lake County
Benevolent, Orlando Benevolent, Kissimmee Professional
Firefighters, Volusia County, Local 3574, and
the Fire Department Kitchen Table, which is an
Orlando Retiree Firefighters. All of them give
in the neighborhood of $500 ,000. It's really
helped us get there. Raising Alphas, a project
with Stephen Davis, has done an amazing job.
And their whole organization gave. thousands
of dollars, over $30 ,000 to get us started.
So we have had some good support, but we need
to continue that. And I'm hoping that everybody
will understand that the Give, Send, Go is the
way to do that. And really, it's going to go
directly to Bull and help him and support. Beautiful.
Well, I know we aim to keep this under an hour.
So I've got one minute to round this off. Richard
looks like he's on his way out. So I'm going
to put the link to, you know, the fundraising
links. Everyone knows where it is. Obviously,
we'll put the story. I'll put the link to my
episode with Bull. But Richard and Samuel, I
want to thank you so much for coming on today,
obviously giving a little backstory of why this
is so important to you, but also for coming on
and being Bull's voice today. Thank you very
much, James, and really appreciate the opportunity.
Thank you for everybody that will consider making
a donation. Think about what you would do for
Bull. If you could take him to dinner, a really
nice dinner, what would that look like? Maybe
$200, $300? Come on. Let's think about that when
you're talking about making a donation. We really
want you to consider digging as deep as possible.
We know everybody has their own limitations at
times, so understand that as well. Thank you
so much for having us. It was a great conversation.
There's so many topics I'd love to go and dig
deeper into with you. It's so much going on.
It's an exciting time to be a firefighter. Not
everyone, if you don't have an opportunity to
give, please just share the link. Post it on
all your social medias and get it out there.
Bring it back to your locals and present it at
your board meetings. And the more people that
see it, you know. The more exposure we get, I
think the more we can raise and really rally
behind both.