WEBVTT

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This episode is sponsored by TeamBuildr, yet

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another company that's doing great things for

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the first responder community. As a strength

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and conditioning coach myself who also trains

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tactical athletes, dissemination of wellness

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information is one of the biggest challenges.

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Now TeamBuildr is the premier strength and conditioning

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software for tactical athletes and there are

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several features that really impress me. Firstly,

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there is a full exercise library. So you, the

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personal trainer, does not have to create that

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within your own department. Secondly, you can

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send out programming, but also individualize,

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which I love. So you blanket program for everyone.

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Now you can tweak based on someone's injury,

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someone's need to maybe drop some body composition,

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rather than having to write a program for every

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single person on their own. TeamBuildr also

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allows you to build custom questionnaires to

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collate health and wellness data. It integrates

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with wearables. And I think one of the most important

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things is obviously it tracks. To me, it's imperative

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that we as a profession start tracking our people

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from day one and then over the full span of their

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career, therefore catching potential wellness

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issues and injuries before they happen. Now,

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if you want to try TeamBuildr, they are offering

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you, the audience of the Behind the Shield podcast,

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a free 14 -day trial to experience all of the

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features. And if you want to take a deeper dive

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into TeamBuildr, listen to episode 1032 with

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Melissa Mercado or go to teambuilder .com. And

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I'll spell that to you because it's not as you

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think, T -E -A -M -B -U -I -L -D -R .com. Welcome

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to the Behind the Shield podcast. As always,

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my name is James Gearing and this week you have

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an amazing opportunity to truly help a brother

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firefighter in need. My guests today are Sam

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Eaton and Richard Andrews and we will be talking

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about Tom Bull Hill. Now, for any of you that

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recognize the name, Bull was the man who picked

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up a flag after losing multiple firefighter friends

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and walked from Key West all the way up to Tallahassee

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to raise awareness on not only the cancer, but

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other elements on first responder health and

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sadly death. Now, as Bull was proceeding through

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the state, he himself had his own medical issues

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and has recently been diagnosed with cancer.

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So now this is an all call for you, the listener,

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for everyone in the fire service, especially

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if you are in Florida. As you will hear, Bull

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was a huge force multiplier when it came to the

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cancer initiative in this state, as well as magnifying

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conversations in all the other areas. So my guest,

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Sam Eaton, is a 30 -year veteran of the fire

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service, former battalion chief for Palm Beach

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County. And Richard Andrews has spent 23 years

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as a firefighter and lieutenant in fire prevention

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for Miami -Dade. Both of these men walked with

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Bull and supported him for multiple miles, as

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did I. And as I said, this is now your chance

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to truly give back. As I underline the conversation,

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there are some initiatives where it's not so

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much money that people need. It's support, it's

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community, it's maybe access to treatment. But

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in this particular case, every single dollar

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that is raised will help put Bull back on his

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feet. So I will put the fundraising links on

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the show notes for this page, on the accompanying

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web page, and then all of the social media promos

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that we do as well. So look for the link, click,

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make sure you don't add an extra donation to

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the site itself, put zero there. That will guarantee

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that every single penny that you are generously

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donating will go to the cause itself. So with

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that being said, I introduce to you Sam Eaton

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and Richard Andrews. Enjoy. Start by saying welcome

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to the podcast. I know that we have got Richard

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joining us in a little bit. We don't know exactly

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when, so we're just going to start off with you

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and I, and then we'll progress through. So as

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I said before, thank you so much for coming on

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the Behind the Shield podcast today. I really

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appreciate this opportunity, James. This is amazing.

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I've followed you for some time, and clearly

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you're one of those opportunities for our culture

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to get the word out about things that are actually

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pivotal and important to the career. Thank you

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for having me on. Yeah, well, we've obviously

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got a very incredible human being that's connected

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to the two of us. So we'll talk about Bull in

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a little bit. Just as a preface, though, I'd

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love to hear about your kind of overview of your

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early life and then what drew you to the fire

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service. So I was basically a Floridian. I've

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been here since I was six years old on West Palm

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Beach. I'm coming up on 60 this year. That puts

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me in about, you know, what is that, 50, 54 years,

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something to that effect. Raised by two wonderful,

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very devout Christian parents. Certainly were

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in leadership for the church, the churches they

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were part of. And my background, my father was

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tell people all the time. So my dad was in World

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War II and they go, there's no way. And I go,

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yeah, my dad be 111 if he was alive today. And

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and the to have a father that was part of the

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greatest generation and his the way what he instilled

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in me and certainly my mother as well. The work

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ethic that she had that certainly led led a lot,

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had a lot of an impact on who I am today. And

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I think of them very often when I think about.

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the few successes that I've had in my career

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and things of that nature. Beautiful. Well, Richard's

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already joined us, so that's perfect timing.

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So, Richard, we're just kind of touching on early

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life. Tell me about, you know, the kind of environment

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that you grew up in before you entered the fire

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service. It's a two -parent household, my mom

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and dad. I grew up in the same city I pretty

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much live in now, so haven't traveled too far.

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Went to all the local schools. I still support

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all those local schools in the community. It's

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been fantastic. It's pretty neat because I'm

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raising two boys now that are 16 and 14, and

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they're still in the same community I grew up

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with. They're not going to the exact same school,

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but the same neighborhood and see a lot of the

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same people. It's pretty interesting. And I grew

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up in Cooper City, which is in Broward County,

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Florida. And it seems that first responder route

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was a very popular choice for a lot of our graduating

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members. So I see a lot of the people I grew

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up with in the service, which is pretty awesome.

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My wife just came home after almost four years

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at Nova Southeastern as an optometrist, doctor

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of optometry. So she was staying in Cooper City,

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just on the edge of Cooper City and Davie. So

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you know it well. Yeah, it's a fantastic program

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over there. My wife's actually a graduate from

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Nova as a doctor of audiology. And we know quite

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a few of the doctors in the eye program over

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there. It's been great. Absolutely. I know some

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graduates as well. That's fantastic. Yeah, it's

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a good school. Expensive, but good. Yes. So you're

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asking what led me into the fire service. And

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I guess that's the next thing on this. It would

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be just, I was a lifeguard. And I had a situation

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that I couldn't fix as a head lifeguard at the

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age of 17. Kind of crazy to think, but I didn't

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know how to handle the emergency medical situation

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that was presented with me. And it led me into

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an EMT program in Palm Beach County. And then

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when I got... in an ambulance at that point,

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going code three, lights and siren, busting through

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lights. I go, they pay you for this? I'm in.

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So it's funny how I didn't grow up pushing fire

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trucks and thinking I'm going to be a firefighter,

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but it literally was the EMS side that led me

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into it. And I ended up working in the ambulance

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companies for about six years before I finally

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got hired by Palm Beach County Fire Rescue in

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1991. When you said lifeguard, was it pool lifeguard

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or were you working on the beach? It was a pool.

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I did try out for the beach. I wasn't a strong

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enough swimmer, and I wasn't able to make the

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grade on that. But it was a pool lifeguard, yes.

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This is something I've had quite a few ocean

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lifeguards on. I was a lifeguard for a long time.

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I even did it again when I was back on shift

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in Orange County. But when you talk about fitness

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standards in the fire service, In the lifeguarding

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world, if you don't pass your research, you're

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not a lifeguard anymore. So I found it so crazy

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that you have this high bar set at the academy

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and then you walk through the door and they're

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like, oh, no, no, we don't test you after that.

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What is your perception of that, being a lifeguard

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yourself? I am constantly astounded at the lowering

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of standards and the benchmarks that continue

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to be an issue for the fire service. We are tactical

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athletes. We are, and we're on 24 hours throughout

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the entire year. It's not like we have a season

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or something like that. Well, we do have a season,

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Rich, right? But that being said. It is a nonstop

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job. And I'll tell you, for me, as a firefighter

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through my 30 years with Palm Beach County Fire

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Rescue, and you can ask the exercise physiologist

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there, I would always ask them, give me what

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the punks are doing. I want to know what the

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20 -year -olds are doing. Give me the benchmark

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for that because that's what I'm shooting for.

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And that is a real gauge of where I am aging.

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And I would always strive to keep my numbers

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as close as I could to the young guys and girls.

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I do believe that there is an importance of being

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physically fit all the way through your career.

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Your life depends on it. Your crew's life depends

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on it. Of course, the public depends on that.

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Absolutely. It's amazing with the ocean lifeguards

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that they start off, you know, Hollywood Beach

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is where I had my biggest exposure with the lifeguards

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there for the city of Hollywood. And at the start

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of their shift, they'll do a half a mile run,

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half a mile swim. just to warm up for their day

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right off the beach there. And that's a standard

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how they start. And it's just an amazing benchmark.

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And then when they have to qualify, the time

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is just, it's a pretty tough time. And I don't

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think they've wavered from that throughout the

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years. I still think they hold up that standard.

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Absolutely. Well, I mean, I was talking at the

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FPF conference the other day, you know, and saying

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that when you create an environment for fitness

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standards, then you can put them back. And I

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think this is why, you know, flogging a dead

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horse. When I talk about the 42 hour work week,

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now you've created an environment that allows

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people to rest and recover. Now you can put that

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benchmark up and say, no, no, this is actually

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a standard now. Like if you don't meet it, you

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have to go through, you know, whatever it is

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to either meet that standard or maybe transition

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into a different department under the fire. Because

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as you said, lives depend on you. This isn't

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something that we can just kind of grandfather

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you in on. 100%. absolutely and so it's it i

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get asked quite a bit from some of our go ahead

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no which go ahead I get asked that from quite

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a few of the stations I go to all the time, and

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the guys are really – a lot of them are thirsting

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for a minimum physical fitness standard. It's

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obviously – there's a half that doesn't want

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it, but I think it's coming. I don't know how

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that's going to present itself, but with the

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42 -hour work week, with rest being one of the

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most important things for longevity and health,

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that proper sleep pattern that you can get and

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increase by that new work week, I think it will

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be a forefront conversation following. Once we

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get a larger number of departments onto the 42

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hour work week. Yeah. Sam, what were you going

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to say? No, I was going to say that. I think

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that I, when I look at the, the, the fitness

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standards again, you know, I remember when I

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came in in 1991 I mean, we're, we're ready to

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go. And When I left the fire service at Palm

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Beach County, I was amazed at how many were not

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ready, even coming in. I just couldn't believe

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the recruitment had gotten to the point where

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we would have people that could make it through.

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And I looked at them, I said, they couldn't have

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held a standard to those earlier 90s and 2000s

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when we had a clear benchmark on what was required

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and what was really expected, physically speaking.

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I think that's an issue across the board, and

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that's what I was just going to say. It certainly

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is nothing like an ocean lifeguard, for sure.

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Yeah, well, I've always said this. Firstly, the

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Florida certification is labeled minimum standards.

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So no one can say, oh, it's not fair. We were

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told that was the shittiest you should ever be

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in your whole career. Secondly, for me, I don't

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know if you remember, it was kind of revered

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back then, but I went through Hialeah's Academy.

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I got hired by them in 2004. And we were a non

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-cert supposedly, but half the group was certified

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because this was an environment where it was

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so competitive and they beat the hell out of

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us. But it was so good because it set the bar

00:13:07.159 --> 00:13:09.240
high. It told James Gearing, okay, this is where

00:13:09.240 --> 00:13:11.639
you need to be as a firefighter. And so I carried

00:13:11.639 --> 00:13:14.460
it through and I maintained my fitness. The danger

00:13:14.460 --> 00:13:16.679
of lowering the standards is now you're asking

00:13:16.679 --> 00:13:19.500
people that have become deconditioned to go and

00:13:19.500 --> 00:13:21.779
meet that bar, which is so much harder than just

00:13:21.779 --> 00:13:23.940
maintaining it from the front door. Absolutely.

00:13:24.989 --> 00:13:27.169
That's a great conversation about this. And it

00:13:27.169 --> 00:13:29.669
leads into all the health issues that we have

00:13:29.669 --> 00:13:32.330
later on in our career. And certainly that's

00:13:32.330 --> 00:13:35.070
why, you know, all three of us here, from the

00:13:35.070 --> 00:13:36.549
standpoint of health and safety for the fire

00:13:36.549 --> 00:13:39.409
service, it is a pivotal and important mission.

00:13:40.090 --> 00:13:43.149
It's part of what we, I know that from my standpoint,

00:13:43.350 --> 00:13:45.549
definitely for our organization, the Florida

00:13:45.549 --> 00:13:46.830
Firefighter Safety and Health Collaborative,

00:13:46.850 --> 00:13:49.509
it is certainly benchmarks that we try to maintain

00:13:49.509 --> 00:13:52.629
and create and maintain for the fire service.

00:13:53.549 --> 00:13:55.850
Absolutely. Well, Richard, give us a kind of

00:13:55.850 --> 00:13:57.909
introduction to how you found the fire service

00:13:57.909 --> 00:14:00.049
and your kind of on -ramp experience initially.

00:14:01.610 --> 00:14:03.909
So it was interesting that Sam started with Lifeguard

00:14:03.909 --> 00:14:06.450
because I was also a lifeguard for the Broward

00:14:06.450 --> 00:14:09.309
County system. So I worked at one of our local

00:14:09.309 --> 00:14:12.549
parks, C .B. Smith, and that was my first exposure

00:14:12.549 --> 00:14:17.389
to any kind of emergency treatment, CPR, you

00:14:17.389 --> 00:14:19.669
know, as a young individual. Also, it helped

00:14:19.669 --> 00:14:23.179
that, you know, my entire team and... Cross country

00:14:23.179 --> 00:14:25.419
worked at the park, so we also had practice on

00:14:25.419 --> 00:14:27.679
half the breaks and it definitely helped us be

00:14:27.679 --> 00:14:29.600
a little bit better. But that was my first exposure.

00:14:30.159 --> 00:14:33.159
But it didn't catch on right then. I enjoyed

00:14:33.159 --> 00:14:35.980
it. It was a great job. But then I went to school

00:14:35.980 --> 00:14:37.799
and I started I was a numbers guy. So I was an

00:14:37.799 --> 00:14:39.860
accountant and learning that and sitting in the

00:14:39.860 --> 00:14:42.779
classroom and seeing all of that. And and probably

00:14:42.779 --> 00:14:45.059
about halfway through that, I realized I'm not

00:14:45.059 --> 00:14:47.259
going to be an office person. I like to be outside.

00:14:47.480 --> 00:14:50.220
I'm active. So I started just kind of. pursuing

00:14:50.220 --> 00:14:54.460
what my options were. And coming out of high

00:14:54.460 --> 00:14:56.460
school, I signed up for all options that were

00:14:56.460 --> 00:14:58.100
on the table. I didn't shut any doors because

00:14:58.100 --> 00:15:00.360
you never know what tomorrow will bring. And

00:15:00.360 --> 00:15:03.279
it just so happened that I get a call two years

00:15:03.279 --> 00:15:05.240
after I graduated that I've been accepted to

00:15:05.240 --> 00:15:07.620
the Broward Fire Academy. So I said, hey, this,

00:15:07.740 --> 00:15:10.139
you know, I remember the emergency response that

00:15:10.139 --> 00:15:12.340
I learned as a lifeguard. And I had a few friends

00:15:12.340 --> 00:15:14.139
that had parents that were lifeguards, I mean,

00:15:14.139 --> 00:15:16.139
firefighters. And I was like, this is an option.

00:15:16.220 --> 00:15:18.159
I'm going to go down this route. So I went and

00:15:18.159 --> 00:15:22.090
took the the old CPAT that they first offered

00:15:22.090 --> 00:15:24.350
and performed quite well, scored high. And I

00:15:24.350 --> 00:15:26.149
said, this, this is it. I mean, I love the competitive

00:15:26.149 --> 00:15:28.570
nature of that right there competing against

00:15:28.570 --> 00:15:30.850
everybody that was applying and kind of just

00:15:30.850 --> 00:15:32.450
immersed myself in it from there and was on the

00:15:32.450 --> 00:15:35.049
fast track, you know, went right through Fire

00:15:35.049 --> 00:15:37.809
Academy, EMT, paramedic, and just stayed on that

00:15:37.809 --> 00:15:40.389
track and was fortunate enough. This was 1999

00:15:40.389 --> 00:15:44.009
and then was fortunate enough to finish that

00:15:44.009 --> 00:15:46.610
and pretty much get hired right after I finished

00:15:46.610 --> 00:15:49.419
all of those certs. I got hired first on the

00:15:49.419 --> 00:15:52.120
West Coast, the Bonita Springs, and then Miami

00:15:52.120 --> 00:15:54.940
-Dade called and hired me right before my first

00:15:54.940 --> 00:15:57.200
shift over there. So I do feel bad for those

00:15:57.200 --> 00:16:00.279
guys over there. It was a tough transition, but

00:16:00.279 --> 00:16:02.259
I knew, you know, growing up on the East Coast

00:16:02.259 --> 00:16:04.620
here and all my family here, that this was a

00:16:04.620 --> 00:16:07.460
better fit. I didn't necessarily know it was

00:16:07.460 --> 00:16:09.679
going to be Miami -Dade. I didn't travel too

00:16:09.679 --> 00:16:11.440
far south unless I was going to a Hurricanes

00:16:11.440 --> 00:16:14.620
game. um prior to that but i've learned a lot

00:16:14.620 --> 00:16:17.179
about miami and there's a lot of culture here

00:16:17.179 --> 00:16:19.700
and a great environment and i've enjoyed every

00:16:19.700 --> 00:16:23.279
second of it being in miami -dade county how

00:16:23.279 --> 00:16:25.960
competitive was it i'll keep with you richard

00:16:25.960 --> 00:16:28.379
then we'll go to sam how competitive was it back

00:16:28.379 --> 00:16:32.940
then to obtain a single position as a firefighter

00:16:34.860 --> 00:16:38.080
I remember going through a lot of smaller departments,

00:16:38.419 --> 00:16:41.120
especially most of the ones in Broward, and being

00:16:41.120 --> 00:16:46.240
an applicant of 100 people. Going through the

00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:48.200
process, and they took your exact time. Every

00:16:48.200 --> 00:16:50.179
second counted on their physical agility test.

00:16:50.379 --> 00:16:53.720
Every second counted on their swim test. Just

00:16:53.720 --> 00:16:57.159
the process of going through the interview, sitting

00:16:57.159 --> 00:16:59.899
in front of tables with... Six, seven chiefs

00:16:59.899 --> 00:17:03.100
across the other as a young man not having much

00:17:03.100 --> 00:17:05.339
life experience and sitting across from these

00:17:05.339 --> 00:17:07.799
men hitting you with pretty advanced fire questions.

00:17:08.099 --> 00:17:10.480
I remember the city of Palm Beach's test process

00:17:10.480 --> 00:17:13.039
was pretty competitive. They drop a video on

00:17:13.039 --> 00:17:15.519
a TV and leave me in a room with a camera on

00:17:15.519 --> 00:17:18.140
me. And they told me, pick apart this fire scene

00:17:18.140 --> 00:17:20.160
and tell me what's going right and what's going

00:17:20.160 --> 00:17:22.339
wrong. And I barely knew the minimum standards

00:17:22.339 --> 00:17:25.420
at that point. So it was quite interesting. But

00:17:25.420 --> 00:17:27.319
then Miami -Dade obviously was taking applications.

00:17:28.279 --> 00:17:30.480
And if you want to see competitive, I think 14

00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:33.160
,000 people applied when I was going through

00:17:33.160 --> 00:17:36.539
that process. And the first step was a 50 % lottery.

00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:38.779
So it didn't matter who you were. You were either

00:17:38.779 --> 00:17:42.000
in or out. So 7 ,000 made it through. I was fortunate

00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:45.460
enough because I remember other young men and

00:17:45.460 --> 00:17:48.460
co -classmates in paramedic school, their parents

00:17:48.460 --> 00:17:49.900
worked for Miami -Dade and they didn't make it

00:17:49.900 --> 00:17:52.519
past the lottery. So I definitely consider that

00:17:52.519 --> 00:17:55.180
a blessing early on and knew what was going on

00:17:55.180 --> 00:17:58.000
there. It just so happened that I made it through

00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:01.240
their process. And here I am. Sam, what about

00:18:01.240 --> 00:18:05.299
your experience? Well, I said that I was an ambulance

00:18:05.299 --> 00:18:07.339
company for six years, not because I wanted to,

00:18:07.420 --> 00:18:10.960
because it took me that long going through Riviera

00:18:10.960 --> 00:18:14.880
Beach, Palm Beach, Palm Beach County, of course,

00:18:15.079 --> 00:18:18.619
West City of West Palm, Delray, Boca, Boynton.

00:18:18.619 --> 00:18:21.380
I was applying everywhere. And the competition

00:18:21.380 --> 00:18:25.119
was just. incredible. If you had one thing going

00:18:25.119 --> 00:18:27.180
against you, one little mark or something, you're

00:18:27.180 --> 00:18:29.680
automatically off the list. Like Richard's talking

00:18:29.680 --> 00:18:32.380
about, I don't remember numbers like that, but

00:18:32.380 --> 00:18:35.740
we were clearly 1 ,000 to 2 ,000 people applying

00:18:35.740 --> 00:18:38.960
for five positions every time you went in. So

00:18:38.960 --> 00:18:41.180
you knew that they were looking for that. And

00:18:41.180 --> 00:18:43.880
of course, there was other things, other elements

00:18:43.880 --> 00:18:46.259
that were going on there with affirmative action

00:18:46.259 --> 00:18:48.240
and things of that nature. So that played a little

00:18:48.240 --> 00:18:50.660
role in who got selected first. That kind of

00:18:50.660 --> 00:18:52.809
stuff is very... Very frustrating to go through

00:18:52.809 --> 00:18:56.349
that year after year. But when I got the call,

00:18:56.430 --> 00:18:58.750
man, I literally felt like I hit the lottery.

00:18:59.170 --> 00:19:02.589
Mention the word lottery. I remember specifically

00:19:02.589 --> 00:19:04.990
where I was sitting when Palm Beach County called

00:19:04.990 --> 00:19:09.289
me and said, you're in. And I was in my office

00:19:09.289 --> 00:19:11.170
at the ambulance company, and they heard me from

00:19:11.170 --> 00:19:15.910
three rooms away. I was so excited. So it wasn't

00:19:15.910 --> 00:19:18.910
easy, and it still isn't. but i feel like back

00:19:18.910 --> 00:19:21.410
then it was the competition was just incredible

00:19:21.410 --> 00:19:25.490
people understood uh what the fire service was

00:19:25.490 --> 00:19:27.589
about it was a little bit different back then

00:19:27.589 --> 00:19:29.750
i think maybe in a lot of ways i believe the

00:19:29.750 --> 00:19:32.750
people coming in had a different passion for

00:19:32.750 --> 00:19:36.599
the job i think i feel like um We weren't striving

00:19:36.599 --> 00:19:41.440
for pensions or salaries. We wanted to be firefighters,

00:19:41.720 --> 00:19:45.460
man. We wanted to do the job. So that's a little

00:19:45.460 --> 00:19:47.740
bit of the difference I feel today as compared

00:19:47.740 --> 00:19:51.599
to what we're seeing in recruitment. But, man,

00:19:51.740 --> 00:19:55.019
that takes me back. It's interesting. I went

00:19:55.019 --> 00:19:58.579
down to see my old training lieutenant, who's

00:19:58.579 --> 00:20:02.039
a chief now, I believe, and one of my classmates

00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:03.900
at Hialeah. They're there, and he's in training

00:20:03.900 --> 00:20:07.190
as well now. And it was crazy just being on the

00:20:07.190 --> 00:20:10.009
grinder, getting to just enjoy myself. All these

00:20:10.009 --> 00:20:12.670
recruits are getting beat up. But firstly, they

00:20:12.670 --> 00:20:15.509
referred to that one hiring class that we were

00:20:15.509 --> 00:20:17.970
a part of as Navy SEAL Hell Week. So I guess

00:20:17.970 --> 00:20:22.329
it was never as bad as that again. But I discovered

00:20:22.329 --> 00:20:24.670
that we tested against, I don't know exactly,

00:20:24.789 --> 00:20:26.230
but hundreds and hundreds of people for that

00:20:26.230 --> 00:20:29.569
class. And that was non -cert. But the real kind

00:20:29.569 --> 00:20:32.609
of underlining of how competitive it was is I'd

00:20:32.609 --> 00:20:34.210
totally forgotten about this. I just started

00:20:34.210 --> 00:20:37.190
talking about this a few weeks ago. We didn't

00:20:37.190 --> 00:20:38.930
know how much we were going to get paid. HireLid

00:20:38.930 --> 00:20:42.410
didn't advertise a salary. And we all still applied.

00:20:42.549 --> 00:20:44.269
Hundreds of us still applied. And we found out,

00:20:44.289 --> 00:20:46.789
I think it was about three weeks into it. So

00:20:46.789 --> 00:20:49.849
that compared to now. But I think there's good

00:20:49.849 --> 00:20:52.349
and bad. Obviously, if you have such a high demand,

00:20:52.569 --> 00:20:56.119
then it's very easy not to. address the things

00:20:56.119 --> 00:20:58.400
that will take care of your people because there's

00:20:58.400 --> 00:21:01.819
an unending line of them. Conversely, now you've

00:21:01.819 --> 00:21:04.240
got this whole, you know, the pendulum swung

00:21:04.240 --> 00:21:05.799
the other way where now they're trying to lure

00:21:05.799 --> 00:21:09.180
people in with hiring bonuses and this and that.

00:21:09.240 --> 00:21:12.119
And now the focus has kind of been made on the

00:21:12.119 --> 00:21:15.119
numbers rather than the desire. So I feel not

00:21:15.119 --> 00:21:17.200
again, not trying to revisit this topic too much.

00:21:17.240 --> 00:21:20.160
But when we go to the 42 hour work week and we

00:21:20.160 --> 00:21:23.039
get that balance right, I think you're really

00:21:23.039 --> 00:21:26.250
going to see a lot of people lock back into the

00:21:26.250 --> 00:21:28.329
calling rather than the benefits themselves.

00:21:29.430 --> 00:21:34.019
Absolutely. Absolutely. I really hope that that's

00:21:34.019 --> 00:21:37.140
the results from it. It's interesting to talk

00:21:37.140 --> 00:21:40.180
about the 42 -hour work week. And you know a

00:21:40.180 --> 00:21:43.119
lot about it, your presentation on it. And it

00:21:43.119 --> 00:21:46.079
is not what it was in the early 2000s when you

00:21:46.079 --> 00:21:48.259
applied with hundreds of people. I think there

00:21:48.259 --> 00:21:50.759
are expansions and the cities are growing. Our

00:21:50.759 --> 00:21:53.440
population of Florida has taken off. So the need

00:21:53.440 --> 00:21:56.119
for service is there. But we're having to recruit

00:21:56.119 --> 00:21:58.519
more than we ever have versus having that pool

00:21:58.519 --> 00:22:01.900
of people. And Sam is 100 percent right on the

00:22:01.900 --> 00:22:03.740
reasons behind some of the applicants. Now, it's

00:22:03.740 --> 00:22:06.779
not necessarily 100 percent of the drive to be

00:22:06.779 --> 00:22:09.519
a first responder. There's the other aspects

00:22:09.519 --> 00:22:12.980
there. But while more and more departments implement

00:22:12.980 --> 00:22:17.039
the 42 hour work week, whatever format that presents

00:22:17.039 --> 00:22:20.119
itself. these smaller departments are definitely

00:22:20.119 --> 00:22:22.680
going to have a retention issue and it's it's

00:22:22.680 --> 00:22:24.359
going to be interesting that's probably a much

00:22:24.359 --> 00:22:27.420
longer conversation but these people are going

00:22:27.420 --> 00:22:28.680
to have to get on board because there's going

00:22:28.680 --> 00:22:31.299
to be a lot of movement of experienced firefighters

00:22:31.299 --> 00:22:33.859
i think around the state greater than we've ever

00:22:33.859 --> 00:22:37.950
seen Yeah, well, I think firstly, with the 42,

00:22:38.109 --> 00:22:39.910
you're going to see an increase in retention.

00:22:40.029 --> 00:22:41.890
And someone told me that they thought that about

00:22:41.890 --> 00:22:45.450
20 % of Florida certified firefighters aren't

00:22:45.450 --> 00:22:47.730
working as firefighters. So you probably see

00:22:47.730 --> 00:22:49.730
some come out the woodwork. You'd have people

00:22:49.730 --> 00:22:52.049
that were going to retire, not anymore. I was

00:22:52.049 --> 00:22:55.029
talking to Dr. Peter Antebi the other day, Palm

00:22:55.029 --> 00:22:58.730
Beach, I think it was Broward. People that were

00:22:58.730 --> 00:23:00.670
going to retire aren't because of this whole

00:23:00.670 --> 00:23:03.569
blood being so effective in the field on trauma.

00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:05.359
that they're getting all these saves now. So

00:23:05.359 --> 00:23:07.319
some of their really passionate medics are staying

00:23:07.319 --> 00:23:09.619
longer to try and get it under their belt. But

00:23:09.619 --> 00:23:11.680
I wonder if some of the people that focused on

00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:14.440
the benefits were always there, but we used to

00:23:14.440 --> 00:23:17.500
take the top 10, 5 % of the list. Now we're taking

00:23:17.500 --> 00:23:20.519
the top 40, 50 % of the list. So now you're being

00:23:20.519 --> 00:23:22.380
forced to get some of those. You see what I mean?

00:23:22.440 --> 00:23:24.680
So I think it's both sides of the coin. But I

00:23:24.680 --> 00:23:27.319
think if you change the profession... we will

00:23:27.319 --> 00:23:30.059
go back to the entire country having people lining

00:23:30.059 --> 00:23:31.839
up around the doors. But it's going to take time,

00:23:31.880 --> 00:23:33.380
and the early adopters are going to get to choose

00:23:33.380 --> 00:23:37.240
the best people. It's just that simple. Sure.

00:23:37.660 --> 00:23:40.420
That's going to be great results. I hope that's

00:23:40.420 --> 00:23:43.500
the trend that definitely comes from it. Absolutely.

00:23:43.680 --> 00:23:45.500
Well, talking about the other side of that, the

00:23:45.500 --> 00:23:48.059
environment that we were raised in, the 56 -hour

00:23:48.059 --> 00:23:50.059
work weeks, and then sadly the devolution to

00:23:50.059 --> 00:23:53.000
all this mandatory overtime, I'll start with

00:23:53.000 --> 00:23:55.980
you, Sam. Through your eyes as a firefighter,

00:23:55.980 --> 00:23:58.599
talk to me about some of the illnesses that you

00:23:58.599 --> 00:24:00.839
started seeing manifesting in the men and women

00:24:00.839 --> 00:24:05.640
that you work with. Illnesses and injuries would

00:24:05.640 --> 00:24:08.819
be two things, right? I think the fatigue of

00:24:08.819 --> 00:24:11.779
the job and the repetitive nature of it is always

00:24:11.779 --> 00:24:13.680
going to play into those issues, the physical

00:24:13.680 --> 00:24:16.240
issues and aspects of it. And certainly that

00:24:16.240 --> 00:24:19.079
is, as we get older, when you change it from

00:24:19.079 --> 00:24:22.420
a 25 and out situation to a 30 and out, when

00:24:22.420 --> 00:24:25.680
you get older, those injuries are certainly very

00:24:25.680 --> 00:24:29.740
plaguing. But really the disease process, I didn't

00:24:29.740 --> 00:24:34.480
know that my first district chief was going to

00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:37.640
get cancer. And that was Henry Cassell, my first

00:24:37.640 --> 00:24:40.740
leader. And this guy never took a sick day in

00:24:40.740 --> 00:24:45.309
his life. We literally had banked, we were able

00:24:45.309 --> 00:24:47.190
to bank our hours back then. So we had like 30

00:24:47.190 --> 00:24:49.569
,000 hours or some crazy amount of hours. I don't

00:24:49.569 --> 00:24:52.950
know what it was, but, you know, a lot of hours

00:24:52.950 --> 00:24:55.809
saved and he was going to use that to help him

00:24:55.809 --> 00:24:59.150
in retirement. And his last few years, he got

00:24:59.150 --> 00:25:01.430
diagnosed with a terminal case of cancer and

00:25:01.430 --> 00:25:04.349
didn't make it even into retirement. Those first,

00:25:04.430 --> 00:25:06.869
those early on, there were people that were physically

00:25:06.869 --> 00:25:08.869
fit that were coming down with cancer. So I'm

00:25:08.869 --> 00:25:10.869
honing in on the one thing. There's a lot of

00:25:10.869 --> 00:25:12.650
other disease processes and things that affect

00:25:12.650 --> 00:25:15.650
us. But certainly cancer is the number one thing

00:25:15.650 --> 00:25:19.430
on my mind. And we would see people and some

00:25:19.430 --> 00:25:21.130
of the people in the top shape of their life.

00:25:21.470 --> 00:25:23.430
All of a sudden, they're not with us anymore.

00:25:23.609 --> 00:25:25.190
And we're going to these funerals. And there

00:25:25.190 --> 00:25:28.009
was no back then. There was no connection like

00:25:28.009 --> 00:25:30.470
this. The job's creating this. We're just like,

00:25:30.569 --> 00:25:33.670
what? What? I can't believe it. Jerry, Henry,

00:25:33.869 --> 00:25:37.190
Butch, what's going on here? We couldn't believe

00:25:37.190 --> 00:25:40.809
these numbers, these people were passing and

00:25:40.809 --> 00:25:43.210
how young they were. And these cancers that we

00:25:43.210 --> 00:25:45.730
were getting were very aggressive. And finally,

00:25:45.809 --> 00:25:48.890
we started putting things together as a department.

00:25:49.170 --> 00:25:51.329
But this was happening nationally and obviously

00:25:51.329 --> 00:25:54.690
in other parts as well. So we began to realize

00:25:54.690 --> 00:25:56.950
that the job was taking its toll on firefighters.

00:25:58.460 --> 00:26:00.880
And then the first thing was, how do we make

00:26:00.880 --> 00:26:03.460
people aware of this? And of course, right after

00:26:03.460 --> 00:26:05.359
this, how do we start training and preventing?

00:26:05.900 --> 00:26:09.579
So to you, Richard, we'll talk about the same

00:26:09.579 --> 00:26:11.559
question and we'll go into the kind of, you know,

00:26:11.559 --> 00:26:13.460
what's happened since then. But what did you

00:26:13.460 --> 00:26:15.599
start seeing as far as, and it can be mental

00:26:15.599 --> 00:26:17.359
health as well, you know, just the impact of

00:26:17.359 --> 00:26:19.059
the job on the men and women that you serve with?

00:26:20.809 --> 00:26:22.670
There's multiple ways. I mean, obviously, the

00:26:22.670 --> 00:26:25.390
cancer is one of the biggest ones. The job exposure

00:26:25.390 --> 00:26:28.369
to these carcinogens and everything that we face.

00:26:29.150 --> 00:26:32.069
Definitely, we saw the increased numbers of cancer

00:26:32.069 --> 00:26:36.049
and the shock of the names that constantly kept

00:26:36.049 --> 00:26:38.470
popping up. And obviously, the expansion of our

00:26:38.470 --> 00:26:40.529
physicals have caught more and more of them.

00:26:40.589 --> 00:26:44.329
And you see that list grow way too fast and have

00:26:44.329 --> 00:26:46.490
been to way too many funerals because of cancer.

00:26:46.809 --> 00:26:49.930
But going back to... All the aspects of the job

00:26:49.930 --> 00:26:53.509
and just the repeated exposure to the traumas

00:26:53.509 --> 00:26:58.009
that we see, the lack of sleep. You know, the

00:26:58.009 --> 00:27:00.589
longest stint of my career was at Station 29

00:27:00.589 --> 00:27:02.490
in Sweetwater, one of our busier stations in

00:27:02.490 --> 00:27:04.369
the county. And it's called the meat grinder

00:27:04.369 --> 00:27:06.210
for a reason, because it takes good, healthy,

00:27:06.329 --> 00:27:09.009
quality firemen into the machine and spits them

00:27:09.009 --> 00:27:13.549
out as nothing at the end. And I saw it too often,

00:27:13.589 --> 00:27:16.519
that sleep deprivation. does not recover in time

00:27:16.519 --> 00:27:18.640
before your next shift comes there. The other

00:27:18.640 --> 00:27:20.619
part is, is nobody wants to work there. So you're,

00:27:20.619 --> 00:27:22.319
you're the one constantly picking up the other

00:27:22.319 --> 00:27:24.579
shifts and you get the mandatory overtime because

00:27:24.579 --> 00:27:26.559
no one else will work that off going truck. So

00:27:26.559 --> 00:27:28.440
you just spend 12 more hours on the busiest truck

00:27:28.440 --> 00:27:30.359
in the County or one of the busier trucks in

00:27:30.359 --> 00:27:33.480
the County. And that adds up. And that I've seen

00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:35.680
it far too often for, for people coming through

00:27:35.680 --> 00:27:39.259
my station that leads to the alcoholic, you know,

00:27:39.259 --> 00:27:41.750
the alcohol. crutch that they lean on now just

00:27:41.750 --> 00:27:43.509
so they can decompress when they get off shift

00:27:43.509 --> 00:27:45.650
because they're wired. And that's how they make

00:27:45.650 --> 00:27:48.490
it through the next day just to calm down. And

00:27:48.490 --> 00:27:50.769
not everyone is fortunate enough to go through

00:27:50.769 --> 00:27:53.190
that and then be able to throttle down and control

00:27:53.190 --> 00:27:56.390
it. And I've seen it abused and lost too many

00:27:56.390 --> 00:27:59.650
friends to that illness of alcoholism because

00:27:59.650 --> 00:28:03.029
of the stress of the job. It's unfortunately

00:28:03.029 --> 00:28:05.410
really there. It's the sleep deprivation catches

00:28:05.410 --> 00:28:08.799
up to you. I haven't done a science experiment

00:28:08.799 --> 00:28:10.900
on what the sleep deprivation does, but I can

00:28:10.900 --> 00:28:13.779
speak for myself. After spending such a long

00:28:13.779 --> 00:28:16.000
time there, I've been fortunate enough to stay

00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:18.640
relatively healthy. But when I go to my doctor's

00:28:18.640 --> 00:28:20.779
appointment for my physical every year, all of

00:28:20.779 --> 00:28:22.839
my levels would be at the high end. My liver

00:28:22.839 --> 00:28:25.079
enzymes would be at the high end. My cholesterol

00:28:25.079 --> 00:28:26.500
would be at the high end. Everything was just

00:28:26.500 --> 00:28:29.440
pushing the limit. Once I left that station and

00:28:29.440 --> 00:28:31.359
just went to a slower station, it wasn't a shutdown

00:28:31.359 --> 00:28:34.259
station. I still ran calls, but it wasn't 29.

00:28:35.039 --> 00:28:37.200
My next year, everything went back to midline.

00:28:37.240 --> 00:28:39.740
Nothing else changed rather than not being at

00:28:39.740 --> 00:28:42.019
that station. And if that's not, I mean, that's

00:28:42.019 --> 00:28:45.339
the firsthand proof that I have that what the

00:28:45.339 --> 00:28:48.220
stress of this job does and not including the

00:28:48.220 --> 00:28:50.740
long -term effects of everything you see being

00:28:50.740 --> 00:28:53.079
at a busy station like that. It's just what it

00:28:53.079 --> 00:28:55.240
is. It's when we run these calls, all stations,

00:28:55.380 --> 00:28:57.819
it doesn't have to be busy. They get, every station

00:28:57.819 --> 00:29:00.279
gets these calls. It's every city, every street

00:29:00.279 --> 00:29:02.880
corner has accidents. And depending on, you know,

00:29:02.900 --> 00:29:04.799
you're exposed to that all of the time and it

00:29:04.799 --> 00:29:07.000
wears on you over time for sure. And I've noticed

00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:09.400
it, you know, I'm not retired. I still have years

00:29:09.400 --> 00:29:12.579
left, but 23 years is what I have on just over

00:29:12.579 --> 00:29:16.339
23 years now. And it's, I can see it's, it's,

00:29:16.339 --> 00:29:19.019
it's the example of the cup. The cup is going

00:29:19.019 --> 00:29:22.400
to fill up and. When you're at those busy stations

00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:25.220
and the guys that then rely on the alcohol to

00:29:25.220 --> 00:29:29.220
calm down, that cup doesn't properly drain. It's

00:29:29.220 --> 00:29:31.460
there. The 48 hours is not enough time to drain

00:29:31.460 --> 00:29:34.019
that cup to an appropriate level for you to fill

00:29:34.019 --> 00:29:36.480
it back up. And these cups are overflowing. And

00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:38.900
that's why it's such an important issue that

00:29:38.900 --> 00:29:41.519
we talk about the mental health and the decompressing

00:29:41.519 --> 00:29:45.720
and proper self -awareness and hygiene is what

00:29:45.720 --> 00:29:48.769
it comes down to. Absolutely. Sam, you're nodding

00:29:48.769 --> 00:29:50.150
your head. Anything you want to add on that side

00:29:50.150 --> 00:29:54.089
of things? I agree with everything that Rich

00:29:54.089 --> 00:29:59.289
is talking about. We've lost so many firefighters,

00:29:59.690 --> 00:30:02.250
brothers, that I can see them in my mind right

00:30:02.250 --> 00:30:06.490
now that have taken their own life. And it just

00:30:06.490 --> 00:30:10.069
boggles your mind. And everybody's asking, how

00:30:10.069 --> 00:30:11.630
do we fix this? How do we fix this? How do we

00:30:11.630 --> 00:30:14.900
fix this? You have to really, to literally reimagine

00:30:14.900 --> 00:30:16.480
what the fire service looks like, you have to

00:30:16.480 --> 00:30:19.720
start thinking about what is creating the most

00:30:19.720 --> 00:30:22.380
stressors on these firefighters and how can we

00:30:22.380 --> 00:30:24.339
do it. We're never going to eliminate the job.

00:30:24.500 --> 00:30:26.559
We're never going to eliminate the mental exposures.

00:30:26.619 --> 00:30:30.200
We are part of that culture. We're driven by

00:30:30.200 --> 00:30:32.240
a mission to protect the public, and we're going

00:30:32.240 --> 00:30:34.680
to be thrust into these situations. So the only

00:30:34.680 --> 00:30:39.079
thing that makes sense is to force the limitation

00:30:39.079 --> 00:30:42.819
by creating. longer rest periods, an ability

00:30:42.819 --> 00:30:45.420
to decompress from these things, and also something

00:30:45.420 --> 00:30:48.000
I think that we're really missing. I believe

00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:50.339
that we're missing the opportunity to proactively

00:30:50.339 --> 00:30:53.220
deal with this mental health crisis. I think

00:30:53.220 --> 00:30:55.680
the best thought process is this. I think every

00:30:55.680 --> 00:31:00.259
firefighter, mandatorily, every year, has to

00:31:00.259 --> 00:31:04.039
go in and talk to a psychiatrist for one hour.

00:31:04.619 --> 00:31:06.900
And if you make it mandatory, think about this

00:31:06.900 --> 00:31:09.890
for a second. If it's part of that That annual

00:31:09.890 --> 00:31:11.809
process where you get your fitness test, you

00:31:11.809 --> 00:31:13.730
get your medical, physical, you get your mental

00:31:13.730 --> 00:31:16.109
done. You have to go in and get this done to

00:31:16.109 --> 00:31:19.049
get checked off for your next year. You all of

00:31:19.049 --> 00:31:21.069
a sudden, everybody's like, well, I don't need

00:31:21.069 --> 00:31:23.269
to go. I need to do that. If everybody has to

00:31:23.269 --> 00:31:25.450
do it the first couple of years, people say,

00:31:25.529 --> 00:31:28.109
I don't know why I'm here. Sessions over in 10

00:31:28.109 --> 00:31:30.190
minutes. But now you're coming up for your annual.

00:31:30.849 --> 00:31:33.869
You're having some issues. I don't have to schedule

00:31:33.869 --> 00:31:36.410
anything. I have to go see the person. Nobody's

00:31:36.410 --> 00:31:37.910
going to think anything about it. And I have

00:31:37.910 --> 00:31:39.569
to go in and sit down with a psychiatrist and

00:31:39.569 --> 00:31:41.349
say, you know what, doc, the last two years I've

00:31:41.349 --> 00:31:44.490
been fine, but I'm glad I'm here today because

00:31:44.490 --> 00:31:46.069
I need to talk to you about some calls that are

00:31:46.069 --> 00:31:47.890
really bugging me. It's starting to affect my

00:31:47.890 --> 00:31:49.990
marriage. I want to have a conversation. That

00:31:49.990 --> 00:31:52.470
firefighter didn't have to do anything. They

00:31:52.470 --> 00:31:53.829
didn't have to schedule something. They'd have

00:31:53.829 --> 00:31:56.430
to contact somebody. It's a proactive thought

00:31:56.430 --> 00:31:59.390
process to put that firefighter, that first responder

00:31:59.390 --> 00:32:02.069
in the seat in front of that clinician. every

00:32:02.069 --> 00:32:04.430
year and say, hey, everything good? I'm fantastic.

00:32:04.769 --> 00:32:07.029
Maybe everybody does that the first year. But

00:32:07.029 --> 00:32:09.390
I think what you'd see is people would be more

00:32:09.390 --> 00:32:12.190
open to having that discussion now with a clinician

00:32:12.190 --> 00:32:13.670
that can actually give them the help they need.

00:32:13.789 --> 00:32:16.730
So it's just a thought. One thing that I've talked

00:32:16.730 --> 00:32:20.289
a lot after being educated on this show by some

00:32:20.289 --> 00:32:23.750
of these experts on the prevalence of childhood

00:32:23.750 --> 00:32:27.720
trauma in the uniform professions. is looking

00:32:27.720 --> 00:32:30.640
at it a different way. We PT on you recruits

00:32:30.640 --> 00:32:34.420
from day one. What if we had a conversation and

00:32:34.420 --> 00:32:36.160
the money is there? Take away the polygraph.

00:32:36.400 --> 00:32:38.039
I led my way through three of them. They're bullshit.

00:32:39.039 --> 00:32:44.440
And then the MMPI was never meant to be a standalone

00:32:44.440 --> 00:32:46.240
psych test. The one that we were given with all

00:32:46.240 --> 00:32:49.339
those hundreds of questions is part of what they

00:32:49.339 --> 00:32:51.619
call forensic psychology. So you have a gamut

00:32:51.619 --> 00:32:53.680
of tests and then it builds a picture of this

00:32:53.680 --> 00:32:56.349
person. We use one of them and say, okay, Sam

00:32:56.349 --> 00:32:58.690
either is or is not going to be a good firefighter.

00:32:58.730 --> 00:33:01.089
It's a box -checking, ridiculous thing. And again,

00:33:01.269 --> 00:33:04.589
I was talking to a Virginia Beach firefighter,

00:33:04.609 --> 00:33:05.930
and they didn't know where their shift schedule

00:33:05.930 --> 00:33:08.670
even came from originally. That's the problem.

00:33:08.750 --> 00:33:11.470
Where did the MMPI even come from that we use

00:33:11.470 --> 00:33:14.309
as a national standard? So take away those, do

00:33:14.309 --> 00:33:16.549
a solid background check, do a solid written,

00:33:16.650 --> 00:33:19.789
a solid physical, a solid medical, and then the

00:33:19.789 --> 00:33:21.829
money that you would have wasted on polygraphs

00:33:21.829 --> 00:33:25.240
and psych tests, put that into... five, six counseling

00:33:25.240 --> 00:33:28.380
sessions during the first six months of the academy

00:33:28.380 --> 00:33:31.160
or probation. And you initiate the conversation

00:33:31.160 --> 00:33:34.039
with the fact that you stood, you know, you towed

00:33:34.039 --> 00:33:37.019
the line to be a firefighter or a cop means that

00:33:37.019 --> 00:33:39.279
you probably had some struggles in your past.

00:33:39.460 --> 00:33:41.660
Now, when you work through them, those struggles

00:33:41.660 --> 00:33:44.910
become absolute strengths. If you bury them deep,

00:33:45.049 --> 00:33:46.589
they're going to rear their ugly head somewhere,

00:33:46.690 --> 00:33:48.450
you know, where it's not going to be a good time.

00:33:48.869 --> 00:33:51.130
So getting them to understand that to be a better

00:33:51.130 --> 00:33:53.430
firefighter, you do the work mentally as well.

00:33:53.549 --> 00:33:56.450
And then, as you said, then you start checking

00:33:56.450 --> 00:33:58.630
in, you know, and then you so you have these

00:33:58.630 --> 00:34:00.470
people that have, you know, an annual check in,

00:34:00.509 --> 00:34:02.410
whatever it is. They've already got a relationship

00:34:02.410 --> 00:34:04.650
with the counselor and you've normalized the

00:34:04.650 --> 00:34:06.309
mental health conversation. We're all doing it.

00:34:06.450 --> 00:34:09.530
So I think that is just add on to what you've

00:34:09.530 --> 00:34:12.469
already said proactively. is when you understand

00:34:12.469 --> 00:34:14.369
the kind of human that says, I want to go into

00:34:14.369 --> 00:34:16.110
a burning building or cut dead kids out of a

00:34:16.110 --> 00:34:18.710
car, that's a very special human being that's

00:34:18.710 --> 00:34:21.050
been through some stuff usually. So let's talk

00:34:21.050 --> 00:34:23.610
about that right from the first day. I love it.

00:34:23.670 --> 00:34:25.889
I love it, man. Well, besides processing all

00:34:25.889 --> 00:34:29.449
of that, that is an opportunity to provide healthy

00:34:29.449 --> 00:34:33.010
tools and outlets to that first responder to

00:34:33.010 --> 00:34:36.070
initiate early in their career so they're ahead

00:34:36.070 --> 00:34:39.150
of a lot of the building of the issues that we

00:34:39.150 --> 00:34:41.380
see throughout our career. hundred percent yeah

00:34:41.380 --> 00:34:43.960
everything breath work you know meditation understanding

00:34:43.960 --> 00:34:46.300
just putting your phone down all those things

00:34:46.300 --> 00:34:48.800
all right well i don't want to burn up too much

00:34:48.800 --> 00:34:51.739
time so let's talk about um bull specifically

00:34:51.739 --> 00:34:55.360
so richard when did you first come across bull

00:34:55.360 --> 00:34:58.480
and then um you know let's talk about what he's

00:34:58.480 --> 00:35:00.280
doing through your eyes through your department

00:35:00.280 --> 00:35:06.050
specifically so we First met Bull early on, you

00:35:06.050 --> 00:35:08.630
know, obviously he had his history and everything,

00:35:08.690 --> 00:35:13.010
his story on how he got to where he decided to

00:35:13.010 --> 00:35:16.610
go to Key West and start walking. And that's

00:35:16.610 --> 00:35:18.690
a long stretch. I know it takes forever to drive

00:35:18.690 --> 00:35:21.989
from Miami to Key West. And he starts walking

00:35:21.989 --> 00:35:25.539
and we had one of our members. a couple of our

00:35:25.539 --> 00:35:27.239
members that are in the Keys all the time and

00:35:27.239 --> 00:35:29.320
got wind of this down there. And they started

00:35:29.320 --> 00:35:31.000
walking him out of the Keys and then brought

00:35:31.000 --> 00:35:34.179
it back to us, to our board and made us aware

00:35:34.179 --> 00:35:38.199
of it. And we expanded those resources. You know,

00:35:38.219 --> 00:35:40.880
we heard his story. We realized, you know, what

00:35:40.880 --> 00:35:42.820
he was trying to bring awareness to and what

00:35:42.820 --> 00:35:45.820
his goal was and a lofty goal that was early

00:35:45.820 --> 00:35:50.519
on. We, you know, we got him pretty fresh. paired

00:35:50.519 --> 00:35:53.199
him up with a few families that we introduced

00:35:53.199 --> 00:35:55.420
him to. And it was a great exposure. But I think

00:35:55.420 --> 00:35:57.800
I first started walking. I first met him in person

00:35:57.800 --> 00:36:00.980
just when he made it out of Homestead and walked

00:36:00.980 --> 00:36:02.719
with him pretty much all the way through Dade

00:36:02.719 --> 00:36:05.380
County to the Hollywood station, I think is where.

00:36:06.789 --> 00:36:09.929
I handed him off. It took a couple days there.

00:36:09.949 --> 00:36:11.989
The city handled him through one part. He pretty

00:36:11.989 --> 00:36:13.949
much walked along the – we have a busway that

00:36:13.949 --> 00:36:16.130
runs through Dade County. So it was a wide open

00:36:16.130 --> 00:36:19.030
area. We got our benevolent involved, and they

00:36:19.030 --> 00:36:20.989
kind of blocked off traffic and had a canteen

00:36:20.989 --> 00:36:24.889
truck. And I think that was – our locals' exposure

00:36:24.889 --> 00:36:27.809
to him. And we started utilizing social media

00:36:27.809 --> 00:36:29.889
and just hearing his story and what he had been

00:36:29.889 --> 00:36:32.269
through and his cause. We knew that, you know,

00:36:32.269 --> 00:36:34.530
we had already been in Tallahassee fighting for

00:36:34.530 --> 00:36:36.730
cancer coverage in the fire service. And it was

00:36:36.730 --> 00:36:39.150
primarily, obviously, the cancer side of this.

00:36:39.849 --> 00:36:41.829
We knew session was going to come again. And

00:36:41.829 --> 00:36:43.510
this was always a fight. And we're like, you

00:36:43.510 --> 00:36:44.849
know, this guy's really making a difference.

00:36:44.889 --> 00:36:48.519
He's drawing attention to the issues. And once

00:36:48.519 --> 00:36:51.119
you meet him, it's pretty much inevitable at

00:36:51.119 --> 00:36:54.099
that point that you're going to – his charisma

00:36:54.099 --> 00:36:57.000
and his passion is contagious, and you just want

00:36:57.000 --> 00:37:00.380
to rally behind him. My kids were little at that

00:37:00.380 --> 00:37:03.760
time. It's a few years back now. And they walked

00:37:03.760 --> 00:37:05.659
with us one day, and they wanted to hear the

00:37:05.659 --> 00:37:07.320
story. And then we started sharing the story.

00:37:07.460 --> 00:37:10.719
And social media at the time was – it was still

00:37:10.719 --> 00:37:13.480
a few years ago, but really helped spread the

00:37:13.480 --> 00:37:17.159
word. And what – Bull accomplished by bringing

00:37:17.159 --> 00:37:20.380
awareness to the cancer issue and the fire service,

00:37:20.539 --> 00:37:25.579
to media, to social media, to the public. I don't

00:37:25.579 --> 00:37:28.159
think we could thank him enough for that. But

00:37:28.159 --> 00:37:32.260
also what he did, it's a key figure of time in

00:37:32.260 --> 00:37:34.239
the fire service and first responders in the

00:37:34.239 --> 00:37:37.679
state of Florida to bring us together. A lot

00:37:37.679 --> 00:37:40.400
of us operated in a silo in our cities and in

00:37:40.400 --> 00:37:43.659
our counties. But to watch him be handed off

00:37:43.659 --> 00:37:46.340
from Miami -Dade County across the line through

00:37:46.340 --> 00:37:49.320
Hollandale to the city of Hollywood and the welcoming

00:37:49.320 --> 00:37:52.880
party they had for him at the station was remarkable.

00:37:53.039 --> 00:37:55.460
And then following his path up the state, watching

00:37:55.460 --> 00:37:57.940
the handoffs, watching the cities, watching the

00:37:57.940 --> 00:38:00.800
counties, these departments come together and

00:38:00.800 --> 00:38:03.780
support him all the way to Tallahassee. I mean,

00:38:03.780 --> 00:38:06.599
I know it was a tough feat. It's amazing what

00:38:06.599 --> 00:38:09.000
he accomplished. But to the point where spreading

00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:11.239
the word, when he crossed from the East Coast

00:38:11.239 --> 00:38:15.420
to the center of the state over Highway 50 through

00:38:15.420 --> 00:38:18.059
the Winter Garden area, at this point, I think

00:38:18.059 --> 00:38:20.300
Mission Barbecue rallied across there. They had

00:38:20.300 --> 00:38:24.179
the media up there. My brother -in -law's family

00:38:24.179 --> 00:38:26.199
lives right there. I told them, you have to go

00:38:26.199 --> 00:38:29.349
experience what this man is doing. And it just

00:38:29.349 --> 00:38:31.110
so happened, they said, I wish I had the picture.

00:38:31.309 --> 00:38:33.849
They ended up on the newspaper with my nephew

00:38:33.849 --> 00:38:36.110
meeting Bull and him welcoming him across the

00:38:36.110 --> 00:38:38.929
state and just seeing the media frenzy behind

00:38:38.929 --> 00:38:42.610
it. We can't thank him enough. And at that point,

00:38:42.650 --> 00:38:47.769
what he did for us, his friendship just grew

00:38:47.769 --> 00:38:49.710
from there. And I knew that I had a lifelong

00:38:49.710 --> 00:38:51.510
friend and supporter of what was right in the

00:38:51.510 --> 00:38:55.539
fire service. Absolutely. Well, I met Bull initially

00:38:55.539 --> 00:38:57.599
through Orange County's Fitbit. Even though he'd

00:38:57.599 --> 00:38:59.579
worked in the kind of battalion that I was in,

00:38:59.659 --> 00:39:02.039
we kind of overlapped as far as our careers.

00:39:02.139 --> 00:39:04.760
But that's when we started losing people. Shakey

00:39:04.760 --> 00:39:06.599
was a big one that he was, you know, extremely

00:39:06.599 --> 00:39:09.599
close to. But he started seeing his friends dying,

00:39:09.679 --> 00:39:12.699
a lot of the squad guys. And so the 343 Hero

00:39:12.699 --> 00:39:14.880
Challenge and some of those. And then a few years

00:39:14.880 --> 00:39:16.840
later, you know, we did an interview. I can't

00:39:16.840 --> 00:39:18.460
remember if it was before or after the walk or

00:39:18.460 --> 00:39:21.039
if we did two. I'll get that and I'll put those

00:39:21.039 --> 00:39:24.059
on the show notes for this as well. But we walked

00:39:24.059 --> 00:39:26.000
with him through Marion County and I just had

00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:27.900
knee surgery and my son was with me as well.

00:39:27.980 --> 00:39:30.960
So we went up through 441 through Ocala there

00:39:30.960 --> 00:39:32.840
for as long as it could before I had to tap out.

00:39:32.960 --> 00:39:36.340
But yeah, I mean, just a guy that's been through

00:39:36.340 --> 00:39:39.260
so much, overcome addiction, had strokes and

00:39:39.260 --> 00:39:42.099
his focus is other people to the point where,

00:39:42.159 --> 00:39:43.360
you know, we've all got to understand there's

00:39:43.360 --> 00:39:46.239
a limit where it becomes detrimental. But that

00:39:46.239 --> 00:39:48.780
servant's heart was reignited, especially when

00:39:48.780 --> 00:39:50.739
he really transitioned out the fire service.

00:39:51.400 --> 00:39:54.820
And kind of took on a Forrest Gump -esque journey

00:39:54.820 --> 00:39:58.099
from Key West to Tallahassee to bring light to

00:39:58.099 --> 00:40:00.440
the cancers, the mental health, everything, really.

00:40:00.840 --> 00:40:02.699
But with that being said, that was kind of my

00:40:02.699 --> 00:40:06.059
perspective in a nutshell. Sam, talk to me about

00:40:06.059 --> 00:40:10.460
your bull experience. Walk, bull, walk, instead

00:40:10.460 --> 00:40:14.639
of run, force, run. Man, I love listening to

00:40:14.639 --> 00:40:16.679
that. Richard's referring to, I think, Randy

00:40:16.679 --> 00:40:19.579
Brown and Adam Parks, right? Correct? Yes. Those

00:40:19.579 --> 00:40:22.139
two guys rockstar. They saw it before anybody

00:40:22.139 --> 00:40:25.719
else did. They saw the wave coming. My connection

00:40:25.719 --> 00:40:28.420
to Bull started with a girl named Jen Clyer,

00:40:28.420 --> 00:40:30.099
a firefighter for Palm Beach County Fire Rescue.

00:40:30.440 --> 00:40:32.500
She worked for Orange County before coming to

00:40:32.500 --> 00:40:35.519
Palm Beach County. And she had told me four or

00:40:35.519 --> 00:40:37.460
five months before the walk, she says, hey, have

00:40:37.460 --> 00:40:39.320
you heard about this guy Bull? Do you know Tom

00:40:39.320 --> 00:40:41.000
Bull? She wanted to introduce him. I was like,

00:40:41.059 --> 00:40:43.239
I don't got time for this. I've got too many

00:40:43.239 --> 00:40:46.159
things going on. And then she called because

00:40:46.159 --> 00:40:48.199
she contacts me again. She again, she says, can

00:40:48.199 --> 00:40:51.699
you meet me down in Miami -Dade area? Actually,

00:40:51.780 --> 00:40:54.280
just the top part of the Keys. And I said, why?

00:40:54.400 --> 00:40:55.739
She goes, you've got to come see what's going

00:40:55.739 --> 00:40:58.800
on. And I took her for a word and I came down

00:40:58.800 --> 00:41:03.070
and he I saw the packs, the pack. I think it

00:41:03.070 --> 00:41:06.010
was at that point. And I met Randy and Adam there.

00:41:06.190 --> 00:41:08.369
And that was my first exposure to bowl. And I

00:41:08.369 --> 00:41:10.389
was like, I wanted to kind of figure out what's

00:41:10.389 --> 00:41:12.929
going on with this guy. Where's he coming from?

00:41:13.110 --> 00:41:15.489
What's his agenda? You know, what's he up to?

00:41:15.690 --> 00:41:17.789
You know, I got a little bit of, you know, I

00:41:17.789 --> 00:41:20.989
don't know him. But I was immediately impressed.

00:41:21.230 --> 00:41:23.170
And you could tell there was a different air

00:41:23.170 --> 00:41:26.849
about this guy. And literally, I felt like we

00:41:26.849 --> 00:41:29.889
finally had an opportunity to take what we'd

00:41:29.889 --> 00:41:32.230
waited 16 years to get some kind of legislation

00:41:32.230 --> 00:41:34.630
in place here in the state of Florida. And at

00:41:34.630 --> 00:41:36.969
the time that he's marching for this, we had

00:41:36.969 --> 00:41:39.389
four cancers that they were going to cover. They

00:41:39.389 --> 00:41:41.599
were trying to... convince us, hey, at least

00:41:41.599 --> 00:41:44.739
let's get the four cancers covered. There was

00:41:44.739 --> 00:41:46.519
no female cancers. There's only four cancers.

00:41:46.579 --> 00:41:47.980
One of them happened to be multiple myeloma cancer,

00:41:48.199 --> 00:41:50.559
which was the cancer that my buddy got. But my

00:41:50.559 --> 00:41:53.079
point is that at the time, they were trying to

00:41:53.079 --> 00:41:57.420
get us to settle for four cancers. We weren't

00:41:57.420 --> 00:41:59.219
having it. We didn't want it. We didn't wait

00:41:59.219 --> 00:42:01.440
16 years to get four cancers covered. We should

00:42:01.440 --> 00:42:03.880
have the best thing. I know the FPF and the locals

00:42:03.880 --> 00:42:07.139
were working hard, like Rich talked about, so

00:42:07.139 --> 00:42:08.699
many people to name. I don't want to start naming

00:42:08.699 --> 00:42:09.960
people, but I'm telling you, there's so many

00:42:09.960 --> 00:42:11.679
people that were working really hard at the same

00:42:11.679 --> 00:42:14.119
time to get something in place, but nothing was

00:42:14.119 --> 00:42:18.380
budging. So here's JP and Shakey pass away from

00:42:18.380 --> 00:42:23.219
cancer. JP, independently, I believe this is

00:42:23.219 --> 00:42:27.440
the story goes, they both said to Bull, I'm embarrassed.

00:42:28.420 --> 00:42:31.500
They're on their deathbed. And they say, I'm

00:42:31.500 --> 00:42:34.340
embarrassed that I chose the fire service because

00:42:34.340 --> 00:42:39.579
I'm not leaving my family with anything. He said.

00:42:41.539 --> 00:42:44.300
There is nothing more sacrilegious and he didn't

00:42:44.300 --> 00:42:46.260
say this, but I'm saying his position on that

00:42:46.260 --> 00:42:49.320
was how could that possibly be? How could. A

00:42:49.320 --> 00:42:52.380
guy that served the public and did what he did

00:42:52.380 --> 00:42:55.440
in his whole career, and this is what he says

00:42:55.440 --> 00:42:58.239
on his deathbed, that should never happen. And

00:42:58.239 --> 00:43:01.039
I know that he went with no agenda, no plan,

00:43:01.300 --> 00:43:03.980
no plan, no people in place, no support, goes

00:43:03.980 --> 00:43:06.880
down to Key West, takes a pack, says, I'm going

00:43:06.880 --> 00:43:08.659
to walk, and I'm going to start talking. And

00:43:08.659 --> 00:43:12.500
it was almost biblical in a lot of ways. I'll

00:43:12.500 --> 00:43:16.000
just say that. It felt like almost, and I don't

00:43:16.000 --> 00:43:19.960
want to. But Jesus, it was just like this prophet,

00:43:20.099 --> 00:43:22.860
a prophet from another land coming through this

00:43:22.860 --> 00:43:25.599
area. I was so impressed with him. I rushed back

00:43:25.599 --> 00:43:28.639
to Palm Beach County. I went to, I saw what he

00:43:28.639 --> 00:43:31.000
was doing. Miami -Dade was already working on

00:43:31.000 --> 00:43:33.980
theirs. And I put this, this thing had 24 names.

00:43:34.019 --> 00:43:36.400
It's got 34 now. 10 more people have died from

00:43:36.400 --> 00:43:39.400
cancer since this happened in 2018. But we rushed

00:43:39.400 --> 00:43:43.469
and got PATs cut as quickly as possible. And

00:43:43.469 --> 00:43:45.630
we met him at the county line, Rich, like you

00:43:45.630 --> 00:43:48.449
said, the pass off. And we strapped this thing

00:43:48.449 --> 00:43:50.329
to his pack and this thing walked, went with

00:43:50.329 --> 00:43:53.489
him. We started obviously supporting this guy.

00:43:53.690 --> 00:43:58.750
I'd never seen somebody more unbridled, more

00:43:58.750 --> 00:44:02.989
on point, more willing to get in somebody's face

00:44:02.989 --> 00:44:07.469
and basically settle for nothing but a yes. He

00:44:07.469 --> 00:44:10.469
was literally done with it. This, my history

00:44:10.469 --> 00:44:12.349
on cancer prevention goes back to this helmet.

00:44:12.809 --> 00:44:15.289
Rich has seen this many times. This helmet was

00:44:15.289 --> 00:44:17.809
handed to me with no crosses on it. The guy that

00:44:17.809 --> 00:44:20.630
handed it to me is right here, Butch Smith. This

00:44:20.630 --> 00:44:23.349
guy here, Tim Monahan, driver -operator for Palm

00:44:23.349 --> 00:44:25.570
Beach County Fire Rescue, made this helmet, made

00:44:25.570 --> 00:44:28.449
this in retirement. Butch handed me this helmet

00:44:28.449 --> 00:44:30.050
and said he was fighting cancer at the time.

00:44:30.110 --> 00:44:32.309
Tim had already passed. He says, Tim wants you

00:44:32.309 --> 00:44:34.750
to have this. Make sure every time you talk about

00:44:34.750 --> 00:44:36.690
firefighter cancer, that it's present. This is

00:44:36.690 --> 00:44:38.969
my way of making sure that gets done. But there

00:44:38.969 --> 00:44:40.809
are firefighters from across the state, including

00:44:40.809 --> 00:44:44.590
the city of Miami. Ralph Garcia on here. A number

00:44:44.590 --> 00:44:46.730
of other departments are represented on this

00:44:46.730 --> 00:44:51.190
helmet across the state. And this helmet, I want

00:44:51.190 --> 00:44:53.429
to hold it up here. This helmet walked the state

00:44:53.429 --> 00:44:57.429
with bull. This is Mike Sweeney's cross. This

00:44:57.429 --> 00:44:59.989
is a battle scar from the walk. It's the only

00:44:59.989 --> 00:45:01.809
one that's done this. And it's because people

00:45:01.809 --> 00:45:03.989
were carrying it and it rubbed the cross raw.

00:45:04.050 --> 00:45:06.010
I left it just where it was at. I put a smaller

00:45:06.010 --> 00:45:08.289
one next to it. But my point is that this made

00:45:08.289 --> 00:45:11.670
the walk. for most of the walk with Bull all

00:45:11.670 --> 00:45:14.969
the way up the state into Tallahassee. I would

00:45:14.969 --> 00:45:18.469
just say this. There's not a single person that

00:45:18.469 --> 00:45:21.610
I know of in the fire service nationally or internationally

00:45:21.610 --> 00:45:25.809
that's had more of an impact on a specific legislative

00:45:25.809 --> 00:45:29.050
piece than that one individual, Tom Bull Hill.

00:45:29.230 --> 00:45:33.110
That's the statement I'll stand on. I'll go to

00:45:33.110 --> 00:45:35.650
my grave saying that because he really did something.

00:45:36.190 --> 00:45:38.449
that nobody else could do he created a momentum

00:45:38.449 --> 00:45:42.610
and a wave we had 1500 people walking down the

00:45:42.610 --> 00:45:44.889
streets into tallahassee rich i know i'm not

00:45:44.889 --> 00:45:46.409
sure if you were there or not we may not even

00:45:46.409 --> 00:45:48.570
known each other time but they said we had to

00:45:48.570 --> 00:45:51.590
stay on the sidewalk and then okay you can have

00:45:51.590 --> 00:45:55.610
one lane they just had to shut the road down

00:45:55.610 --> 00:45:58.289
because we were coming and the way that looked

00:45:58.289 --> 00:46:01.789
and the impression that it made helped the legislators

00:46:01.789 --> 00:46:05.469
see the impact that cancer had had on one walk

00:46:06.159 --> 00:46:09.000
He had collected thousands of names of firefighters

00:46:09.000 --> 00:46:10.679
that had lost their life to cancer and some that

00:46:10.679 --> 00:46:13.820
had killed themselves from suicide. But the majority

00:46:13.820 --> 00:46:16.420
of those were cancer things. And when you have

00:46:16.420 --> 00:46:18.519
something like that, add that on top with the

00:46:18.519 --> 00:46:21.480
boots that were on the hill, all the empty boots,

00:46:21.619 --> 00:46:25.199
the packs, ashes of firefighters in packs. You

00:46:25.199 --> 00:46:28.260
can't deny it any further. We had a unanimous

00:46:28.260 --> 00:46:32.769
vote to finally get 21 cancers covered. In the

00:46:32.769 --> 00:46:36.789
state of Florida, we went from four to 21. And

00:46:36.789 --> 00:46:39.750
I don't think, I know, I'll say this. I know

00:46:39.750 --> 00:46:41.730
it wouldn't have happened if Bull hadn't made

00:46:41.730 --> 00:46:44.010
that statement. It wouldn't have gone through

00:46:44.010 --> 00:46:46.110
like it did. And I do appreciate the work that

00:46:46.110 --> 00:46:49.210
he's done on that. Bull going on, starting the

00:46:49.210 --> 00:46:52.949
walk as the starting point and his drive being

00:46:52.949 --> 00:46:56.630
so powerful and contagious and his sincerity.

00:46:58.539 --> 00:47:01.599
And every man's fireman. He's gone through a

00:47:01.599 --> 00:47:05.159
lot of the turmoils that he relates to so many

00:47:05.159 --> 00:47:08.320
different firefighters. The fact that his drive

00:47:08.320 --> 00:47:11.340
was so strong and he rallied the fire service

00:47:11.340 --> 00:47:15.019
across the state together. is what launched the

00:47:15.019 --> 00:47:18.199
effort that went into that next session, you

00:47:18.199 --> 00:47:21.360
know, going into the impact of everyone marching

00:47:21.360 --> 00:47:23.900
down towards the Capitol, awakening, you know,

00:47:23.900 --> 00:47:26.539
opening the legislators' eyes, starting session

00:47:26.539 --> 00:47:30.739
with all of those boots outside the Capitol with

00:47:30.739 --> 00:47:33.039
a unified front because we were all working together.

00:47:33.710 --> 00:47:35.789
We couldn't have done it with the amount of people

00:47:35.789 --> 00:47:38.829
that came together to do that. And then putting

00:47:38.829 --> 00:47:41.809
all of the gear around the Capitol for that entire

00:47:41.809 --> 00:47:44.949
session, we did not let them forget. And everybody

00:47:44.949 --> 00:47:48.570
from around the state kept pushing and pushing

00:47:48.570 --> 00:47:52.510
their reps, their senators, and not letting them

00:47:52.510 --> 00:47:55.309
forget what they saw walking down towards the

00:47:55.309 --> 00:47:57.230
Capitol when 1 ,500 firefighters came together.

00:47:57.409 --> 00:48:00.969
So it was definitely, it's such a... A highlight

00:48:00.969 --> 00:48:04.309
of my career, for sure, being part of that. To

00:48:04.309 --> 00:48:06.010
Rich's point, and I want to make sure this is

00:48:06.010 --> 00:48:10.869
clear, we know, when I say bull, it took everybody

00:48:10.869 --> 00:48:13.190
to make this happen. There are many organizations

00:48:13.190 --> 00:48:15.909
that were working. The Firefighter Cancer Support

00:48:15.909 --> 00:48:19.110
Network, our organization, the Sylvester Comprehensive

00:48:19.110 --> 00:48:22.030
Cancer Center was supporting Bull's Walk. And

00:48:22.030 --> 00:48:25.929
certainly the FPF and the locals that were grinding

00:48:25.929 --> 00:48:28.269
at the legislative, we had somebody had to put

00:48:28.269 --> 00:48:30.989
the packet together. But my point is, I guess

00:48:30.989 --> 00:48:33.050
my point is the momentum that it created and

00:48:33.050 --> 00:48:36.269
the optics it created made it a no brainer and

00:48:36.269 --> 00:48:38.269
made it a situation where if you voted against

00:48:38.269 --> 00:48:40.880
it, you were literally. they knew they were voting

00:48:40.880 --> 00:48:43.400
against the state and a wave of firefighters

00:48:43.400 --> 00:48:46.059
are willing to get out and walk for free, not

00:48:46.059 --> 00:48:48.280
getting paid. We're not paid actors. We're walking

00:48:48.280 --> 00:48:51.139
up to the state. We know that this needs to happen.

00:48:51.199 --> 00:48:53.599
And I think it gave, I feel like that momentum

00:48:53.599 --> 00:48:56.159
is the one thing that's finally solidified something

00:48:56.159 --> 00:48:58.460
for us that is really better than almost any

00:48:58.460 --> 00:49:00.420
state in the nation. We have one of the most

00:49:00.420 --> 00:49:03.639
fantastic firefighter cancer bills and it's,

00:49:03.639 --> 00:49:06.550
it's paid. It has paid out. multiple times from

00:49:06.550 --> 00:49:08.869
multiple firefighters already and helped them

00:49:08.869 --> 00:49:11.110
and supported them just exactly what Bull wanted.

00:49:11.250 --> 00:49:16.070
And so that's the icing on the cake, if you will.

00:49:16.190 --> 00:49:19.210
But a lot of people had a lot to do with making

00:49:19.210 --> 00:49:21.980
it happen too. So many great people and organizations

00:49:21.980 --> 00:49:25.000
that were all fighting for that. It was the unifying

00:49:25.000 --> 00:49:27.239
effort that it did that bring us together. That

00:49:27.239 --> 00:49:30.099
was that synergistic force to make it happen.

00:49:30.179 --> 00:49:32.940
And I think we're almost at that point. And there's

00:49:32.940 --> 00:49:35.239
so many great organizations right now with mental

00:49:35.239 --> 00:49:38.019
health and providing so many services across

00:49:38.019 --> 00:49:40.719
the state that we almost need something to bring

00:49:40.719 --> 00:49:42.860
everyone together. Because I think if they all

00:49:42.860 --> 00:49:44.739
came together, we could really have something

00:49:44.739 --> 00:49:47.699
next level and really bring the mental health

00:49:47.699 --> 00:49:50.610
assistance to it. another level. So I don't know

00:49:50.610 --> 00:49:53.070
what that is, but that unified front is really

00:49:53.070 --> 00:49:54.750
what brought all those great organizations together

00:49:54.750 --> 00:49:58.010
to get the cancer coverage bill passed. Well,

00:49:58.070 --> 00:50:00.010
Rich, you said, use the word that I use a lot

00:50:00.010 --> 00:50:02.650
siloed earlier. And I think this is it. I, when

00:50:02.650 --> 00:50:04.769
I did a presentation the other day, I'm asked

00:50:04.769 --> 00:50:08.190
for data on why do I think the 42 hour work week

00:50:08.190 --> 00:50:10.650
is going to be healthier? And I say very sarcastically.

00:50:10.710 --> 00:50:12.909
So you want a research study to show that 56

00:50:12.909 --> 00:50:16.210
is more detrimental than 42. Come on now, put

00:50:16.210 --> 00:50:19.400
your big boy pants on. But that being said, If

00:50:19.400 --> 00:50:21.460
you ask for the data on how many firefighters

00:50:21.460 --> 00:50:26.179
we lost in 2024, the number is 74. Now you ask

00:50:26.179 --> 00:50:28.500
everyone standing in Tallahassee, I guarantee

00:50:28.500 --> 00:50:31.340
you there's 74 people in the state that they

00:50:31.340 --> 00:50:33.940
know of, whether it's the cancers or the overdose,

00:50:34.000 --> 00:50:36.400
the suicides, whatever, that number is a tip

00:50:36.400 --> 00:50:39.780
of the iceberg. So I think by what Bill did is

00:50:39.780 --> 00:50:42.880
it unified everyone because we are so siloed.

00:50:42.980 --> 00:50:47.170
And sadly, you know, I mean, I'm a very... pro

00:50:47.170 --> 00:50:49.750
-union when it's done properly but if it's not

00:50:49.750 --> 00:50:51.650
done properly and self -serving it can be very

00:50:51.650 --> 00:50:54.690
detrimental but what he did kind of what you

00:50:54.690 --> 00:50:56.789
know the the national should have done which

00:50:56.789 --> 00:50:58.969
is pull us all together and when you start comparing

00:50:58.969 --> 00:51:01.789
notes you're like wait a second there's not 74

00:51:01.789 --> 00:51:04.849
people that we've lost but the people with the

00:51:04.849 --> 00:51:06.710
you know looking at the numbers are going oh

00:51:06.710 --> 00:51:08.650
well it's getting better but we'll just keep

00:51:08.650 --> 00:51:11.369
doing it When the obvious, you know, we all know

00:51:11.369 --> 00:51:13.090
that that's absolutely rubbish. So what Bull

00:51:13.090 --> 00:51:15.949
did really was pull everyone together, remove

00:51:15.949 --> 00:51:19.510
all the statistics and data and all the PowerPoints

00:51:19.510 --> 00:51:21.929
and just say, look, look at this group of people.

00:51:22.210 --> 00:51:24.789
Ask every single one if they know that, you know,

00:51:24.789 --> 00:51:27.750
have they lost someone? You would have 1500 hands

00:51:27.750 --> 00:51:31.130
raise up. That's the point. So I think that was

00:51:31.130 --> 00:51:34.389
what was so powerful. Now, I'll get like I said,

00:51:34.409 --> 00:51:36.050
I'll get the episode number. But, you know, Bull

00:51:36.050 --> 00:51:39.699
has done this despite. huge amount of challenges,

00:51:39.860 --> 00:51:42.739
even the ripple effect of this took its toll

00:51:42.739 --> 00:51:45.699
for a while as well. So Sam, talk to me about

00:51:45.699 --> 00:51:48.000
some of the struggles he's going through now

00:51:48.000 --> 00:51:50.920
and how can we collectively, the listeners, start

00:51:50.920 --> 00:51:54.420
helping Bull in return? Again, I can't thank

00:51:54.420 --> 00:51:58.659
you enough for this opportunity, James. I found

00:51:58.659 --> 00:52:01.920
out in January that Bull was having some health

00:52:01.920 --> 00:52:05.920
issues and I reached out to him and literally

00:52:06.519 --> 00:52:08.780
What made me reach out to him was it wasn't about

00:52:08.780 --> 00:52:11.079
the cancer. But when I finally got a hold of

00:52:11.079 --> 00:52:13.460
him, he had just been diagnosed with kidney cancer.

00:52:13.920 --> 00:52:20.219
So here's a guy that had since the walk has gone

00:52:20.219 --> 00:52:25.679
through so much anguish, so many physical ailments.

00:52:26.190 --> 00:52:29.030
Everything from his knee to his back, he ends

00:52:29.030 --> 00:52:31.030
up having, he had the stroke. Of course, everybody

00:52:31.030 --> 00:52:33.090
knows about that. The stroke that he fought through

00:52:33.090 --> 00:52:36.289
so valiantly and actually got himself right back

00:52:36.289 --> 00:52:38.710
to where he needed to be. The guy's a testament

00:52:38.710 --> 00:52:41.929
just on that alone. But before the cancer diagnosis,

00:52:42.309 --> 00:52:45.750
he went, it was like Job. He kept, stuff kept

00:52:45.750 --> 00:52:49.400
happening to him. And up until including. He's

00:52:49.400 --> 00:52:51.420
got brain fog. He's dealing with mental health

00:52:51.420 --> 00:52:53.960
crisis and stuff like that. Ends up losing his

00:52:53.960 --> 00:52:56.719
insurance. And sometime back in October, while

00:52:56.719 --> 00:52:59.219
he's off insurance, he goes into and he allowed

00:52:59.219 --> 00:53:01.059
me. He told me I could share these things. So

00:53:01.059 --> 00:53:03.099
I'm telling you stuff that he's allowed me to

00:53:03.099 --> 00:53:05.599
say and represent. It's all part of what we're

00:53:05.599 --> 00:53:09.000
doing campaign wise for him. But he got he ended

00:53:09.000 --> 00:53:10.280
up driving. He's driving on the road. He got

00:53:10.280 --> 00:53:13.159
congestive heart failure and ended up in an uncontrolled

00:53:13.159 --> 00:53:16.739
atrial tachycardia or atrial fibrillation and

00:53:16.739 --> 00:53:19.880
had to get. get treated in a hospital. And I

00:53:19.880 --> 00:53:23.280
forgot where it was exactly, but he gets to get

00:53:23.280 --> 00:53:25.639
treated for that. He has a halter monitor. He's

00:53:25.639 --> 00:53:27.980
got all kinds of stuff going on with that. Finally

00:53:27.980 --> 00:53:29.800
gets back on insurance. So all that happened

00:53:29.800 --> 00:53:32.079
off insurance. So his medical bills, just from

00:53:32.079 --> 00:53:34.659
that one thing alone are astounding. He already

00:53:34.659 --> 00:53:38.699
had medical bills for, for that. He and I'm don't

00:53:38.699 --> 00:53:39.960
want to be all over the place with this, but

00:53:39.960 --> 00:53:42.099
prior to that, he's building a foundation. He

00:53:42.099 --> 00:53:43.820
built the fire hood foundation. He was giving

00:53:43.820 --> 00:53:47.090
of his own. retirement money to get that thing

00:53:47.090 --> 00:53:49.190
going the way he wanted to get it going. So he's

00:53:49.190 --> 00:53:51.210
already kind of putting himself out there. And

00:53:51.210 --> 00:53:53.269
then all these medical things happen. He ends

00:53:53.269 --> 00:53:56.489
up just burning through so much of his own retirement

00:53:56.489 --> 00:54:00.150
just to stay afloat. The hurricanes hit. So there's

00:54:00.150 --> 00:54:02.710
a lot of information that his homes were destroyed

00:54:02.710 --> 00:54:05.630
during the hurricanes, one thing after the other.

00:54:05.670 --> 00:54:07.429
And then he gets his cancer diagnosis on top

00:54:07.429 --> 00:54:12.170
of everything. Currently, he's post kidney surgery.

00:54:12.519 --> 00:54:15.079
They believe they've got everything out of there,

00:54:15.199 --> 00:54:19.420
but this just happened. Literally, this is new

00:54:19.420 --> 00:54:22.139
information for a lot of people, but this happened

00:54:22.139 --> 00:54:26.860
just last month. He has a kidney surgery. He's

00:54:26.860 --> 00:54:29.340
about two weeks post -kidney surgery. I don't

00:54:29.340 --> 00:54:31.019
know if he coughed wrong or something happened,

00:54:31.139 --> 00:54:34.780
but for whatever reason, his surgery came undone.

00:54:34.780 --> 00:54:37.630
He ended up getting... airlifted to a hospital

00:54:37.630 --> 00:54:40.110
because he was losing blood so bad, two units

00:54:40.110 --> 00:54:43.449
and they've got him back. But if you think about

00:54:43.449 --> 00:54:47.170
a man that continues to get beat up, this is

00:54:47.170 --> 00:54:49.789
the guy. We know a lot of people have needs out

00:54:49.789 --> 00:54:52.110
there. We know there's a lot of people that are

00:54:52.110 --> 00:54:55.789
fighting cancer, but there's nobody like Bull.

00:54:55.949 --> 00:55:00.090
Bull has done so much. And I just, if I was to

00:55:00.090 --> 00:55:03.150
say anything, this isn't the guy. This isn't

00:55:03.150 --> 00:55:04.730
the guy that we walk away from. This is the guy

00:55:04.730 --> 00:55:06.989
that we have to help. He helped so many people.

00:55:07.050 --> 00:55:10.710
He gave himself nonstop without wanting to get

00:55:10.710 --> 00:55:13.489
anything back. And here he is now in a desperate

00:55:13.489 --> 00:55:16.250
need financially, physically, mentally. We talked

00:55:16.250 --> 00:55:17.730
about the mental thing earlier. That's really

00:55:17.730 --> 00:55:21.260
a big impact. So all of that being said. uh that

00:55:21.260 --> 00:55:23.340
collectively is what we're looking at right now

00:55:23.340 --> 00:55:25.920
we're we started a gofundme i'm not gonna go

00:55:25.920 --> 00:55:28.639
funny it's a gibson go uh rich andrews has been

00:55:28.639 --> 00:55:31.579
uh with me since we started it um it's about

00:55:31.579 --> 00:55:33.960
about three months we had a goal initial goal

00:55:33.960 --> 00:55:35.880
of a hundred thousand dollars we're almost at

00:55:35.880 --> 00:55:39.260
70 which is fantastic but we want to get to that

00:55:39.260 --> 00:55:41.880
actually want to well exceed the goal of a hundred

00:55:41.880 --> 00:55:45.250
thousand dollars on this um So I'm going to stop

00:55:45.250 --> 00:55:47.170
talking there, but there's a lot of stuff that

00:55:47.170 --> 00:55:49.449
Rich could probably fill in on, but we really

00:55:49.449 --> 00:55:51.670
wanted to do our best for it. And I'm really

00:55:51.670 --> 00:55:55.130
appreciative of Local 1403 and just today, Local

00:55:55.130 --> 00:55:59.610
2928 for digging amazingly deep to help support

00:55:59.610 --> 00:56:07.150
Bull. Rich, please carry on. Yeah, what Sam was

00:56:07.150 --> 00:56:10.050
saying pretty much summarized the situation that

00:56:10.050 --> 00:56:12.599
Bull is in. what we've talked about with his

00:56:12.599 --> 00:56:15.559
story that he's done for us, unifying us together.

00:56:15.639 --> 00:56:20.219
Now it's time for us to unify for him. And that's

00:56:20.219 --> 00:56:21.920
really what we're reaching out to. We've reached

00:56:21.920 --> 00:56:24.360
out to a lot of our local fire departments and

00:56:24.360 --> 00:56:26.380
people that we know in the community. And it's

00:56:26.380 --> 00:56:28.599
been a grassroots effort. We've had a couple

00:56:28.599 --> 00:56:31.739
of great individuals step up early and be large

00:56:31.739 --> 00:56:34.500
sponsors to help Bull's situation because they

00:56:34.500 --> 00:56:37.820
understand his story and respect what he did.

00:56:38.489 --> 00:56:40.590
But now we're just trying to reach out to as

00:56:40.590 --> 00:56:42.510
many people and let people know his story. His

00:56:42.510 --> 00:56:45.190
story was so impactful of what he's done. The

00:56:45.190 --> 00:56:48.250
Firehood Foundation, he poured everything into

00:56:48.250 --> 00:56:52.650
that. He didn't hold back. He treated it as pretty

00:56:52.650 --> 00:56:56.090
much his life and put all of his money, all of

00:56:56.090 --> 00:56:59.199
his effort, all of his time. And he was talking

00:56:59.199 --> 00:57:02.460
with firefighters, first responders across the

00:57:02.460 --> 00:57:05.239
state early on before we had all these mental

00:57:05.239 --> 00:57:08.719
health resources available. And he would reach

00:57:08.719 --> 00:57:11.159
out and stay with these individuals until he

00:57:11.159 --> 00:57:13.300
felt like he could let them go and get other

00:57:13.300 --> 00:57:16.300
help. I mean, he put it all out there. And it's

00:57:16.300 --> 00:57:19.690
our time to help him. It's been. an amazing experience

00:57:19.690 --> 00:57:23.269
now for me since you know sam rallied a core

00:57:23.269 --> 00:57:26.769
group of guys and girls together to kind of be

00:57:26.769 --> 00:57:29.829
a support group for bull and i've every time

00:57:29.829 --> 00:57:34.150
we meet or have a call i leave with more than

00:57:34.150 --> 00:57:36.610
i could possibly give it's it's just listening

00:57:36.610 --> 00:57:39.150
to everyone come together and watching the support

00:57:39.150 --> 00:57:42.309
i think you know early on something i needed

00:57:42.309 --> 00:57:46.480
you know it's it's Management is what it is.

00:57:46.500 --> 00:57:48.219
It's definitely been a bigger divide between

00:57:48.219 --> 00:57:51.480
management and firefighters and departments across

00:57:51.480 --> 00:57:55.139
the state. And some of it is unavoidable. Some

00:57:55.139 --> 00:57:57.480
of it is just the way the management style is

00:57:57.480 --> 00:58:00.400
right now. But when Bull had to receive some

00:58:00.400 --> 00:58:02.280
medical treatment down here in South Florida.

00:58:03.199 --> 00:58:07.079
I had to see the City of Sunrise and their fire

00:58:07.079 --> 00:58:09.440
department, their fire chief, their fire station,

00:58:09.539 --> 00:58:12.099
the crews at that station right next to the Panthers

00:58:12.099 --> 00:58:14.099
Arena, which is pretty busy right now. Go Panthers.

00:58:14.960 --> 00:58:19.119
How they treated Bull, it restored my faith in

00:58:19.119 --> 00:58:21.980
the fire service and what it's about. I tip my

00:58:21.980 --> 00:58:25.559
hat to them. I thank them for giving me that

00:58:25.559 --> 00:58:28.099
boost. I needed it to continue to do what I do.

00:58:28.739 --> 00:58:32.480
And they did a fabulous job. And I think that

00:58:32.480 --> 00:58:35.519
example needs to be shared with all fire departments

00:58:35.519 --> 00:58:37.639
because that's how we should be treating, you

00:58:37.639 --> 00:58:39.599
know, most of these situations when we reach

00:58:39.599 --> 00:58:41.119
out. We need to take care of each other. This

00:58:41.119 --> 00:58:43.760
is a brotherhood for a reason. And they did it

00:58:43.760 --> 00:58:47.239
right. So thank you, City of Sunrise. Yes, absolutely.

00:58:48.039 --> 00:58:51.110
Yeah. I hear people say, oh, the brotherhood,

00:58:51.130 --> 00:58:53.170
sisterhood is dead. And I disagree completely.

00:58:53.349 --> 00:58:54.889
You want to see brotherhood and sister go to

00:58:54.889 --> 00:58:57.289
the 343 Hero Challenge in Orange County. You'll

00:58:57.289 --> 00:58:59.250
see people that get it. Some of them are firefighters.

00:58:59.449 --> 00:59:01.210
Some of them are crossfarers. They're all there

00:59:01.210 --> 00:59:04.429
to honor people that have fallen and raise money

00:59:04.429 --> 00:59:06.909
for people that need it. And I think that, you

00:59:06.909 --> 00:59:09.429
know, when something happens, the knee jerk is

00:59:09.429 --> 00:59:11.869
to raise money. And sometimes that's appropriate.

00:59:12.030 --> 00:59:13.829
Sometimes maybe there's other ways. And even

00:59:13.829 --> 00:59:16.030
in the past with Bull, we've helped him with

00:59:16.030 --> 00:59:19.610
other elements, kind of supplements and mental

00:59:19.610 --> 00:59:21.449
health counseling, some other things that were

00:59:21.449 --> 00:59:25.110
directly connecting him with a resource. But

00:59:25.110 --> 00:59:27.349
for example, in the mental health conversation

00:59:27.349 --> 00:59:29.469
in general, a lot of times we don't need fundraising.

00:59:29.769 --> 00:59:32.090
We need connection. We need people to show up.

00:59:32.150 --> 00:59:33.869
We need to create communities. That's really

00:59:33.869 --> 00:59:38.900
what is needed, not a pot of money. In this example,

00:59:38.940 --> 00:59:41.000
though, it's an opportunity for someone to use

00:59:41.000 --> 00:59:43.219
their money to actually help someone that genuinely

00:59:43.219 --> 00:59:45.619
at this moment needs money because they have

00:59:45.619 --> 00:59:48.219
given so much of themselves to this profession

00:59:48.219 --> 00:59:51.739
that it is through, as we said, generosity and

00:59:51.739 --> 00:59:54.780
then misfortune. They have now been put in a

00:59:54.780 --> 00:59:57.139
huge deficit, which is very detrimental. The

00:59:57.139 --> 00:59:59.179
pension's gone. You've got all these medical

00:59:59.179 --> 01:00:01.619
bills. And sadly, we won't go into this tangent,

01:00:01.699 --> 01:00:03.380
but we're not in a nation where we take care

01:00:03.380 --> 01:00:07.630
of people regardless of their income. I think

01:00:07.630 --> 01:00:10.190
this is such a beautiful opportunity for people

01:00:10.190 --> 01:00:11.929
all over the country to just say, all right,

01:00:11.949 --> 01:00:14.690
my $10, my $100, my $1 ,000, whatever it is,

01:00:14.710 --> 01:00:18.030
is going directly to a person who needs every

01:00:18.030 --> 01:00:21.570
single penny of this donation. Absolutely. I

01:00:21.570 --> 01:00:24.030
think to your point, and I want to make this

01:00:24.030 --> 01:00:25.969
clear with the people that are watching this,

01:00:26.489 --> 01:00:29.590
I sat down with Bull right away. I said, listen,

01:00:29.690 --> 01:00:33.909
we're going to drive to help you get whole. We're

01:00:33.909 --> 01:00:35.789
going to work hard at that. I want you to promise

01:00:35.789 --> 01:00:38.199
me, and he did. I want you to promise me that

01:00:38.199 --> 01:00:40.000
these funds are going to be for you and your

01:00:40.000 --> 01:00:45.219
family. This is not to start to support the Firehood

01:00:45.219 --> 01:00:48.480
Foundation. This is for you, personal funds,

01:00:48.719 --> 01:00:50.940
to get you back to where you need to be. He's

01:00:50.940 --> 01:00:55.840
well below in the deficit of $300 ,000, and that's

01:00:55.840 --> 01:00:58.320
without the medical bills. So we really need

01:00:58.320 --> 01:01:00.679
the financial support to get him where he'll

01:01:00.679 --> 01:01:04.579
have at least some kind of financial support

01:01:04.579 --> 01:01:08.389
moving forward. Rich brought up Sunrise Fire.

01:01:09.019 --> 01:01:11.360
fire department. I want to also say along with

01:01:11.360 --> 01:01:13.360
that, I want to thank the University of Miami

01:01:13.360 --> 01:01:15.559
Sylvester Comprehensive Cancer Center, Dr. Aaron

01:01:15.559 --> 01:01:18.059
Kobitz. The reason he was down there was they

01:01:18.059 --> 01:01:20.440
were facilitating finally to get him a comprehensive

01:01:20.440 --> 01:01:22.880
look at his health. He's got so many things going

01:01:22.880 --> 01:01:25.760
on. So that's why he was down in Sunrise and

01:01:25.760 --> 01:01:27.599
he's going to end up following up with them as

01:01:27.599 --> 01:01:30.719
well. So they've embraced Bull to support him.

01:01:30.900 --> 01:01:32.679
And I also want to, I have to say this, I don't

01:01:32.679 --> 01:01:34.659
know why, but I feel I want to call them out.

01:01:34.760 --> 01:01:36.719
The organizations, the locals that have donated

01:01:36.719 --> 01:01:40.059
to Bull. Starting with the top three, Local 2928,

01:01:40.460 --> 01:01:48.219
Local 587, and Local 1403, all donating $1 ,403,

01:01:48.420 --> 01:01:53.840
$2 ,587, and $2 ,928 collectively. Osceola's

01:01:53.840 --> 01:01:56.739
Benevolent, the Winter Garden Professional Firefighters,

01:01:56.739 --> 01:01:59.579
Mount Doors Local, Palm Beach County Retirees,

01:01:59.639 --> 01:02:05.519
292650 Foundation, Alachua's Local. Lake County

01:02:05.519 --> 01:02:07.860
Benevolent, Orlando Benevolent, Kissimmee Professional

01:02:07.860 --> 01:02:12.019
Firefighters, Volusia County, Local 3574, and

01:02:12.019 --> 01:02:14.579
the Fire Department Kitchen Table, which is an

01:02:14.579 --> 01:02:17.539
Orlando Retiree Firefighters. All of them give

01:02:17.539 --> 01:02:20.699
in the neighborhood of $500 ,000. It's really

01:02:20.699 --> 01:02:23.380
helped us get there. Raising Alphas, a project

01:02:23.380 --> 01:02:25.940
with Stephen Davis, has done an amazing job.

01:02:26.139 --> 01:02:30.920
And their whole organization gave. thousands

01:02:30.920 --> 01:02:35.380
of dollars, over $30 ,000 to get us started.

01:02:35.480 --> 01:02:38.260
So we have had some good support, but we need

01:02:38.260 --> 01:02:40.380
to continue that. And I'm hoping that everybody

01:02:40.380 --> 01:02:42.619
will understand that the Give, Send, Go is the

01:02:42.619 --> 01:02:44.659
way to do that. And really, it's going to go

01:02:44.659 --> 01:02:48.780
directly to Bull and help him and support. Beautiful.

01:02:48.860 --> 01:02:50.800
Well, I know we aim to keep this under an hour.

01:02:50.820 --> 01:02:53.039
So I've got one minute to round this off. Richard

01:02:53.039 --> 01:02:55.360
looks like he's on his way out. So I'm going

01:02:55.360 --> 01:02:57.980
to put the link to, you know, the fundraising

01:02:57.980 --> 01:02:59.820
links. Everyone knows where it is. Obviously,

01:02:59.880 --> 01:03:02.099
we'll put the story. I'll put the link to my

01:03:02.099 --> 01:03:05.000
episode with Bull. But Richard and Samuel, I

01:03:05.000 --> 01:03:07.139
want to thank you so much for coming on today,

01:03:07.320 --> 01:03:09.260
obviously giving a little backstory of why this

01:03:09.260 --> 01:03:12.219
is so important to you, but also for coming on

01:03:12.219 --> 01:03:16.369
and being Bull's voice today. Thank you very

01:03:16.369 --> 01:03:20.969
much, James, and really appreciate the opportunity.

01:03:21.389 --> 01:03:24.050
Thank you for everybody that will consider making

01:03:24.050 --> 01:03:25.949
a donation. Think about what you would do for

01:03:25.949 --> 01:03:28.969
Bull. If you could take him to dinner, a really

01:03:28.969 --> 01:03:30.550
nice dinner, what would that look like? Maybe

01:03:30.550 --> 01:03:33.949
$200, $300? Come on. Let's think about that when

01:03:33.949 --> 01:03:36.429
you're talking about making a donation. We really

01:03:36.429 --> 01:03:39.289
want you to consider digging as deep as possible.

01:03:39.409 --> 01:03:42.030
We know everybody has their own limitations at

01:03:42.030 --> 01:03:44.460
times, so understand that as well. Thank you

01:03:44.460 --> 01:03:46.559
so much for having us. It was a great conversation.

01:03:46.780 --> 01:03:49.219
There's so many topics I'd love to go and dig

01:03:49.219 --> 01:03:52.599
deeper into with you. It's so much going on.

01:03:52.840 --> 01:03:56.139
It's an exciting time to be a firefighter. Not

01:03:56.139 --> 01:03:57.860
everyone, if you don't have an opportunity to

01:03:57.860 --> 01:04:01.340
give, please just share the link. Post it on

01:04:01.340 --> 01:04:02.900
all your social medias and get it out there.

01:04:03.059 --> 01:04:06.000
Bring it back to your locals and present it at

01:04:06.000 --> 01:04:07.980
your board meetings. And the more people that

01:04:07.980 --> 01:04:11.239
see it, you know. The more exposure we get, I

01:04:11.239 --> 01:04:12.760
think the more we can raise and really rally

01:04:12.760 --> 01:04:13.219
behind both.