WEBVTT

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This episode is brought to you by Thorne, the

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Most of you listening come from profession where

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my interview with Wes Barnett and Joel Totoro

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from Thorne. This episode is sponsored by 5 .11,

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the Behind the Shield podcast with the CEO and

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founder, Francisco Morales. Welcome to episode

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581 of Behind the Shield podcast. As always,

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my name is James Gearing, and this week it is

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my absolute honor to welcome on the show Ben

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Patrick. Now, Ben may be more familiar by his

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online handle, Knees Over Toes Guy. And after

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finding Ben's work and applying it to my own

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knee injuries and knee pain, I was amazed how

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well it worked. So I sought him out and ultimately

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visited him at his gym in Clearwater, Florida.

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So we discuss a host of topics from how we're

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damaging our youth athletes, his own knee injury

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journey that led him into the rehab journey that

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he's on now, the societal and sporting elements

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that are creating knee and shoulder pain, the

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tools he brings through his ATG program, and

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so much more. Before we get to this amazing conversation,

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as I say every week, please just take a moment,

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go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe

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to the show. Leave feedback and leave a rating.

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Every five -star rating truly does elevate this

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podcast, therefore making it easier for others

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to find. And this is a free library for you,

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planet Earth. So all I ask in return is that

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you help share these incredible men and women's

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stories so I can get them to every single person

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who needs to hear them. So with that being said,

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I introduce to you Ben Patrick. Enjoy. Well,

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Ben, I want to start by saying thank you so much

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for inviting me here to your training space here

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in Clearwater. You put me through an in -person

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ATG session, which was incredible. So I signed

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up, I think it was like two and a half months

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ago, following your Zero program. But yeah, I

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just want to start by saying thank you so much

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for inviting me here today. That means a lot.

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And man, you didn't disappoint. I was very impressed.

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Well, I mean, like I said, you're incredibly

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fit. Well, it was also following your program

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credit where credit's due. If it had been no

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training at all, I wouldn't be able to do some

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of those movements, but that's cool. It's testament

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to the zero program and moving on to that. So

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we are sitting here in Florida. I would love

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to start chronologically at the very beginning

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of your timeline and kind of walk through that

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way. So tell me where you were born and then

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tell me a little bit about your family dynamic,

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what your parents did and how many siblings.

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Yeah. Only child born in San Jose, California.

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My parents worked in office management, like

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where you have a little office park, and then

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you run the places and lease them. So I definitely

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grew up kind of in the service industry, observing

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them, crazy hard work ethic, very responsible.

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They took it on themselves to have every office

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rented out. You have tenants calling, this isn't

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working, that needs to be fixed. So they were

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so hard working. to service other people, to

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give them really high exchange for what they

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were getting. And I grew up working with them

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from the time I was a little kid. I'd be tagging

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along, doing physical labor type stuff. So I

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grew up with a heavy emphasis, a heavy value

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on work ethic, hard physical labor. Yeah, that

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was my upbringing. Okay, now what about sports?

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What were you playing back then? I was obsessed

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with basketball. I think when you become obsessed

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with one sport at a very young age, it could

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give you an advantage in the skill, but a lot

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of people have wrecked their bodies that way.

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So probably every sport has something negative

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about it physically. In basketball, it's usually

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for the knees because you're just the nature

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of the sport. You're jumping so much. You're

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pounding on your knees so much. There's no example

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in history that a human body was designed to

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be jumping like 500 times a day. Jumping could

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be used for certain things, but in basketball,

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we overdo it. So our knees end up super stressed

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out. So by 12, I already had like terrible chronic

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knee pain. So talk to me about that journey,

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because I've had a lot of coaches on here talking

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about youth athletes. And it seems that to foster

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resilience and overall performance and health,

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the multi -sport athlete seems to do very, very

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well. When did you really get passionate about

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basketball? At what age? And then what were you

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doing wrong as such a young child that already

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had a negative effect on your knees by the time

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you were 12? Yeah, good question. So right around

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eight years old or so is when I started playing

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on teams that would travel to other cities. And

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so what that did is it showed me, I was like,

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oh my gosh, I'm not very good compared to these

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other players. They're faster than me. They jump

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higher than me. So by eight, I already knew if

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I was going to make it in basketball, I needed

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some kind of an advantage. So what was clear

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to me is if I just outworked everybody, that

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would give me an advantage, a way to keep up

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with better players than me naturally. So by

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nine, I was already doing jump programs. So I'm

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playing basketball as much as I can. And then

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on top of that, doing jump program after jump

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program at age nine, 10, 11. So by 12, like my

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knees were already. My knees were already shot

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and in chronic pain, and it would take me a very

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long time to warm up. The muscles didn't quite

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develop right because when you're in pain, you

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stop bending your knees. Things don't form during

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those ages that they're supposed to form. So

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that was kind of what did it for me is obsession

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with basketball, realizing I wasn't as good naturally

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as other players, so then overdoing it to try

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to be as good as them. Well, through just kind

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of coming to your adult lens for a second, when

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you look at the way some of our youth athletes

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are trained, what are you seeing are the good

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philosophies and then what are some of the bad

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ones that are injuring our children? Well, it

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seems like the more it deviates from what's natural

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for a human body. So a sport like basketball

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is going to have too much jumping and pounding

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on the joints. For baseball, it's going to be

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like too much throwing. A human body isn't designed

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to throw that much. So you kind of have different

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options. You could do the sport less. That's

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actually worked out for a lot of people. A lot

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of times people aren't looking at it now and

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realizing Michael Jordan wasn't even interested

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in basketball when he was 12. Michael Jordan

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wouldn't have been Michael Jordan if he would

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have been as serious as I was at eight with chronic

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knee pain by the time he was 12. He played baseball.

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He was just a kid. By the time he was 14, 15,

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he didn't even make the local varsity high school

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team. So he didn't get serious in basketball

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until these muscles were already forming. So

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as soon as you start specializing in a sport,

00:11:16.830 --> 00:11:19.669
you now could be subject to adverse reactions

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of the sport. So the moment you start specializing,

00:11:22.629 --> 00:11:26.610
you need to actually start training to prevent

00:11:26.610 --> 00:11:29.669
that. So that would be one strategy. Someone

00:11:29.669 --> 00:11:31.309
could say, okay, I'm going to specialize, but

00:11:31.309 --> 00:11:32.990
I'm going to need to train these areas to be

00:11:32.990 --> 00:11:36.190
more protected. Or you could not specialize,

00:11:36.309 --> 00:11:40.720
play a variety of sports. So it's, I mean, it's

00:11:40.720 --> 00:11:43.340
kind of common sense. Certain of these sports

00:11:43.340 --> 00:11:45.940
have certain overuse injuries. So you either

00:11:45.940 --> 00:11:49.720
train to prevent those overuse injuries or you

00:11:49.720 --> 00:11:52.299
balance it out and do different activities. Well,

00:11:52.340 --> 00:11:53.879
you talked about travel balls too. That's something

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I've spoken to with a few coaches now. Like we're

00:11:57.600 --> 00:11:59.179
in Florida at the moment. Obviously, there are

00:11:59.179 --> 00:12:01.240
professional, I mean, sorry, there are high level,

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you know, sports teams in all our kind of educational

00:12:04.659 --> 00:12:08.990
counties. Yep. It always seemed crazy to me as

00:12:08.990 --> 00:12:11.289
well to these kids pack up and go to, you know,

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Georgia and the Carolinas and all over the place

00:12:13.870 --> 00:12:18.549
to play sports at 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, when there

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are probably teams that are more than capable

00:12:20.690 --> 00:12:23.649
of challenging them locally that takes the stress

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and the financial element away from the parents

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of sending their kids away for days on end. Yeah.

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And then because you're gathering on a weekend

00:12:31.850 --> 00:12:34.340
somewhere. that you have very little time together,

00:12:34.460 --> 00:12:37.080
you're cramming in five, six, seven games in

00:12:37.080 --> 00:12:39.620
a single weekend. So that's also a total deviation

00:12:39.620 --> 00:12:42.200
from what's natural. It's not natural to go play

00:12:42.200 --> 00:12:44.740
basketball five, six, seven games. Have you looked

00:12:44.740 --> 00:12:47.340
at an NBA schedule? No one plays five, six, seven

00:12:47.340 --> 00:12:49.360
games over a two -day period. It doesn't happen.

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So usually you have certain players will survive

00:12:54.480 --> 00:12:56.580
and they'll be healthy, or maybe they didn't

00:12:56.580 --> 00:12:59.240
play that much. Even LeBron James played football

00:12:59.240 --> 00:13:01.960
and basketball. So automatically, LeBron James

00:13:01.960 --> 00:13:04.259
played way less basketball than I did at the

00:13:04.259 --> 00:13:08.259
same ages. I'm talking every day, 365 days a

00:13:08.259 --> 00:13:11.500
year, no other sports, just basketball and training

00:13:11.500 --> 00:13:14.059
for basketball. That's not natural. And then

00:13:14.059 --> 00:13:16.580
going to these tournaments, five, six, seven

00:13:16.580 --> 00:13:21.299
games in a weekend. So Michael Jordan, LeBron

00:13:21.299 --> 00:13:24.279
James, even Kobe Bryant grew up in Europe. So

00:13:24.279 --> 00:13:26.759
he skipped all those years that I was playing

00:13:26.759 --> 00:13:29.259
five, six, seven games in a weekend. Kobe Bryant

00:13:29.259 --> 00:13:31.139
wasn't. He was in Italy, is that right? Yeah,

00:13:31.139 --> 00:13:34.519
he wasn't. And both Kobe and LeBron have spoken

00:13:34.519 --> 00:13:38.100
out against these youth travel sports. I get

00:13:38.100 --> 00:13:42.100
the desire to compete, but my kid will just play

00:13:42.100 --> 00:13:46.720
in my local leagues here. And here's another

00:13:46.720 --> 00:13:54.500
massive deviation. It used to be more normal

00:13:54.500 --> 00:13:58.039
for dads to be active with kids. So the more

00:13:58.039 --> 00:14:02.019
out of shape dads get, the more their kids are

00:14:02.019 --> 00:14:04.820
having to go travel to find tough competition.

00:14:05.279 --> 00:14:07.940
When you're a dad, you can kick your kid's ass

00:14:07.940 --> 00:14:10.340
at those age. That's the best thing I can give

00:14:10.340 --> 00:14:12.419
my kid. My kid is going to have such a tough

00:14:12.419 --> 00:14:14.820
time beating me in basketball. So he's never

00:14:14.820 --> 00:14:16.460
going to have to go do five, six, seven games

00:14:16.460 --> 00:14:19.019
in a weekend. We'll go play one game on the weekend

00:14:19.019 --> 00:14:21.659
together and he'll be able to play against me,

00:14:21.779 --> 00:14:24.259
men. So he'll go through and a lot of the top

00:14:24.259 --> 00:14:26.940
NBA players were in situations like that where

00:14:26.940 --> 00:14:29.559
they were having to play against men. So you

00:14:29.559 --> 00:14:31.440
have this beautiful process where you can be

00:14:31.440 --> 00:14:35.899
a prolific 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 -year -old athlete.

00:14:36.240 --> 00:14:38.820
And if you play against just in your local area,

00:14:38.919 --> 00:14:41.879
if you play against men, you can become way superior

00:14:41.879 --> 00:14:43.519
than if you're just playing against kids your

00:14:43.519 --> 00:14:45.720
age. So I think that's another massive deviation.

00:14:46.139 --> 00:14:48.899
The more out -of -shape dads get, the more broken

00:14:48.899 --> 00:14:51.019
down the kids will get. See, that's fascinating

00:14:51.019 --> 00:14:52.440
to hear because I've talked about that quite

00:14:52.440 --> 00:14:55.159
a bit coming from England. And again, not that

00:14:55.159 --> 00:14:57.500
where I came from was this amazing, you know.

00:14:57.960 --> 00:14:59.720
Everything was taken care of and everything was

00:14:59.720 --> 00:15:02.600
perfect. Far from it. But the philosophy was

00:15:02.600 --> 00:15:04.399
definitely different. When you come to the U

00:15:04.399 --> 00:15:07.720
.S., you see these high school and collegiate

00:15:07.720 --> 00:15:10.899
athletes, depending on obviously what position

00:15:10.899 --> 00:15:12.980
they play in what sport, at a very, very high

00:15:12.980 --> 00:15:17.299
level. Strength, fitness, explosion. But then

00:15:17.299 --> 00:15:20.539
you see a drop -off. And for lack of a better

00:15:20.539 --> 00:15:22.799
term, we have a bunch of Uncle Ricos that are

00:15:22.799 --> 00:15:25.220
in their 20s talking about how they coulda, woulda,

00:15:25.220 --> 00:15:29.600
shoulda in whatever sport. In the UK, you play

00:15:29.600 --> 00:15:32.940
football, soccer in school. Obviously, there's

00:15:32.940 --> 00:15:34.779
a very, very select few that go off and play

00:15:34.779 --> 00:15:37.200
professionally. But people keep playing, whether

00:15:37.200 --> 00:15:40.299
it's football, rugby, cricket. They play local

00:15:40.299 --> 00:15:42.539
leagues. They play pub leagues, whatever it is.

00:15:42.580 --> 00:15:46.120
But you see that continuance of sport. And that's

00:15:46.120 --> 00:15:47.600
one thing that's terrifying to me. And I think

00:15:47.600 --> 00:15:50.460
that's why we get so many parents living vicariously

00:15:50.460 --> 00:15:53.100
through their children. Because they just stop.

00:15:53.259 --> 00:15:55.879
And I don't know what we can do to change. And

00:15:55.879 --> 00:15:58.639
maybe it's through PE, for example, creating

00:15:58.639 --> 00:16:01.559
healthy kids and resilient kids. But how we can

00:16:01.559 --> 00:16:03.519
bring more of that European element. Because

00:16:03.519 --> 00:16:05.080
it's not just the UK. You see it all over Europe.

00:16:05.419 --> 00:16:08.799
Where you don't just hit a wall from absolute

00:16:08.799 --> 00:16:11.240
peak performance to zero the moment you graduate

00:16:11.240 --> 00:16:14.519
high school or college. Yeah. And it can easily

00:16:14.519 --> 00:16:19.559
change. Powerful people with integrity change

00:16:19.559 --> 00:16:23.500
the world. Someone like LeBron James, he has

00:16:23.500 --> 00:16:27.399
the power to actually change the system, but

00:16:27.399 --> 00:16:29.539
that's going to take a lot of integrity and a

00:16:29.539 --> 00:16:31.720
lot of work for him. So I'm one of those people

00:16:31.720 --> 00:16:34.419
who's just going to keep waking up every day.

00:16:34.700 --> 00:16:36.940
Like I'm not, I'm not giving into the system.

00:16:37.240 --> 00:16:40.120
I'm going to make a better one. So that's what

00:16:40.120 --> 00:16:41.960
I do with my training. I have people of all ages

00:16:41.960 --> 00:16:46.149
sledding, sled, sled, sled, sled. Any age can

00:16:46.149 --> 00:16:48.870
do it. It's low impact. You get cardio, strength.

00:16:48.950 --> 00:16:51.610
You fix foot pains, knee pains. So that's an

00:16:51.610 --> 00:16:54.570
example. That's something that I can use the

00:16:54.570 --> 00:16:57.269
sled. By using the sled forward and backward,

00:16:57.409 --> 00:17:00.610
I can directly rehabilitate someone's ability

00:17:00.610 --> 00:17:03.870
to run or play a sport. So then once a week on

00:17:03.870 --> 00:17:06.750
the weekend or whatever, they can keep that continuance

00:17:06.750 --> 00:17:09.269
of sport. So to me, the sled is the best tool

00:17:09.269 --> 00:17:12.809
to transition from out of shape or injured back

00:17:12.809 --> 00:17:14.730
into being able to do the continuance of the

00:17:14.730 --> 00:17:17.829
sport. So that's part of it. But I'm also, as

00:17:17.829 --> 00:17:20.430
I raise my kid, I'm going to be using my kid's

00:17:20.430 --> 00:17:24.410
educational process as a chance to create a different

00:17:24.410 --> 00:17:26.430
system physically. Because there's a number of

00:17:26.430 --> 00:17:31.430
deviations as we grow up that people aren't quite

00:17:31.430 --> 00:17:34.329
aware of that would make a big difference. Well,

00:17:34.410 --> 00:17:36.869
I harp about on this film all the time now, but

00:17:36.869 --> 00:17:39.269
one of my guests, Mike Salemi, told me about

00:17:39.269 --> 00:17:42.440
a film called The Motivation Factor. And it features

00:17:42.440 --> 00:17:46.019
a high school in – it's La Sierra High School,

00:17:46.039 --> 00:17:48.200
kind of Central California. Yeah. And they had

00:17:48.200 --> 00:17:50.839
this super progressive coach in the 50s bring

00:17:50.839 --> 00:17:53.680
this new PE program. And it was a tiered system.

00:17:53.759 --> 00:17:55.519
So you wore like a certain color shorts when

00:17:55.519 --> 00:17:57.259
you started. And I think there was three or four

00:17:57.259 --> 00:17:59.160
levels that you could test for. You were in a

00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:01.180
team. So you basically kind of tried to test

00:18:01.180 --> 00:18:04.799
as a team. The footage of these seniors from

00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:07.400
this school – I think I saw it where they – Was

00:18:07.400 --> 00:18:09.440
there an image of them all with like a six -pack?

00:18:09.619 --> 00:18:12.700
Yes, that's the one. I saw that. Yes. So I posted

00:18:12.700 --> 00:18:15.119
it quite a bit because it just blows me away.

00:18:15.200 --> 00:18:17.440
I had the director, Doug Orchard, who lives in

00:18:17.440 --> 00:18:19.940
Ormond Beach, not too far from here, on the show.

00:18:20.059 --> 00:18:22.799
And again, when you put a good PE program, and

00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:25.279
back then, even the school meals were still being

00:18:25.279 --> 00:18:27.859
made by people. They weren't processed and shipped

00:18:27.859 --> 00:18:32.220
in by Cisco. I think every single kid in that

00:18:32.220 --> 00:18:35.200
school could do 10 pull -ups. Unbelievable. Yes.

00:18:35.220 --> 00:18:37.240
Now, there's not many people I know that are

00:18:37.240 --> 00:18:39.559
adults, even some athletes that can't do 10 pull

00:18:39.559 --> 00:18:41.140
-ups, you know, in the CrossFit space. They can

00:18:41.140 --> 00:18:45.019
kick, but they can't do proper strict. So he's

00:18:45.019 --> 00:18:47.519
documented what happens when you put in a solid

00:18:47.519 --> 00:18:49.640
physical education program. And their philosophy

00:18:49.640 --> 00:18:52.720
is then when that's in place, and, you know,

00:18:52.740 --> 00:18:54.880
obviously now we fast forward and use some of

00:18:54.880 --> 00:18:57.000
the technology like, you know, the things that

00:18:57.000 --> 00:18:59.920
you teach. Now you want to be a basketball player,

00:18:59.980 --> 00:19:01.720
a football player, a baseball player. You have

00:19:01.720 --> 00:19:05.079
that resilient frame. It's already strong. It's

00:19:05.079 --> 00:19:07.420
already fit. And then you go learn the skill.

00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:09.660
You end up being an even better athlete. Yep.

00:19:09.859 --> 00:19:12.700
You just nailed it. The balance of the body and

00:19:12.700 --> 00:19:15.400
the skill. So many careers break down on the

00:19:15.400 --> 00:19:18.920
body. They have an abundance of skill. So when

00:19:18.920 --> 00:19:21.940
we just overstress that skill and don't address

00:19:21.940 --> 00:19:24.680
the body, then the body is your weakest link.

00:19:24.819 --> 00:19:28.960
So that's what it was for me. My skill was light

00:19:28.960 --> 00:19:31.279
years ahead of my body. And this happens to a

00:19:31.279 --> 00:19:34.359
lot of young athletes. You need that balance

00:19:34.359 --> 00:19:36.259
of the body and the skill. And then it's actually

00:19:36.259 --> 00:19:38.799
quite easy to set yourself up to have a healthy

00:19:38.799 --> 00:19:41.500
career, to give yourself a fair shot. But I think

00:19:41.500 --> 00:19:43.740
it's really cool that that school shows that

00:19:43.740 --> 00:19:46.460
it's totally possible that it can be done. And

00:19:46.460 --> 00:19:48.220
that means that every one of those graduates

00:19:48.220 --> 00:19:51.660
statistically is less likely to have health problems

00:19:51.660 --> 00:19:54.279
as they age. It's just statistics. So the fact

00:19:54.279 --> 00:20:00.339
that all of them are fit, that should be used

00:20:00.339 --> 00:20:04.700
as the model for American. uh high school education

00:20:04.700 --> 00:20:07.180
absolutely yeah that's the thing you don't need

00:20:07.180 --> 00:20:08.779
to reinvent the wheel i talk about this even

00:20:08.779 --> 00:20:11.799
internationally there are either counties or

00:20:11.799 --> 00:20:14.519
states or countries that do things really well

00:20:14.519 --> 00:20:16.660
but like you said it takes integrity and takes

00:20:16.660 --> 00:20:20.480
humility to go you know what can i ask you how

00:20:20.480 --> 00:20:22.380
you do this because this seems to be better than

00:20:22.380 --> 00:20:25.960
the way that we're doing it yep yeah that's fascinating

00:20:25.960 --> 00:20:28.960
i'm gonna have fun studying that because what

00:20:28.960 --> 00:20:31.839
i'm doing here is i mean you're sitting here

00:20:31.839 --> 00:20:36.029
in my gym But this gym, the workout on the board,

00:20:36.109 --> 00:20:38.630
people can do anywhere in the world. So that

00:20:38.630 --> 00:20:41.549
concept can work. I can just, I don't have to

00:20:41.549 --> 00:20:44.250
spread myself thin. I can focus on my craft and

00:20:44.250 --> 00:20:46.529
deliver a great product in one gym. But in this

00:20:46.529 --> 00:20:49.150
modern age, I can put it online. So unfortunately

00:20:49.150 --> 00:20:51.849
for the guy who ran that school that he did so

00:20:51.849 --> 00:20:54.869
well, without the social media being able to

00:20:54.869 --> 00:20:56.849
spread it, probably not enough people were aware

00:20:56.849 --> 00:21:00.630
of it. In modern day, yes, bad news can spread

00:21:00.630 --> 00:21:02.990
faster, but so can good news. Anything can spread

00:21:02.990 --> 00:21:07.329
faster now. So my kid is, my baby's one and a

00:21:07.329 --> 00:21:09.549
half, and I'm going to make a school for him.

00:21:10.269 --> 00:21:13.490
Who knows what will happen, but I'm making a

00:21:13.490 --> 00:21:16.529
school for my kid so that I can try to create

00:21:16.529 --> 00:21:20.789
a better curriculum, a better education system,

00:21:20.890 --> 00:21:23.150
and then I'll just make it so anyone can do it.

00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:25.359
around the world. So an educator could use it

00:21:25.359 --> 00:21:27.099
or a parent could use it to educate their kid

00:21:27.099 --> 00:21:28.519
or they could put together their own school.

00:21:28.640 --> 00:21:31.119
I like the aspect of actually having a school

00:21:31.119 --> 00:21:35.960
so you get that social interaction. But that's

00:21:35.960 --> 00:21:37.319
really cool because I'm going to be studying

00:21:37.319 --> 00:21:40.660
what they did at that school because they obviously

00:21:40.660 --> 00:21:43.700
succeeded and I believe success leaves clues.

00:21:43.940 --> 00:21:46.200
I believe it's so easy to be successful. You

00:21:46.200 --> 00:21:49.960
actually just go study directly what was successful

00:21:49.960 --> 00:21:51.960
and then you can apply that in your own way.

00:21:52.329 --> 00:21:56.490
So my whole knee system is based on the most

00:21:56.490 --> 00:21:59.049
successful cases through history with knees,

00:21:59.230 --> 00:22:01.750
not through some study or this or that where

00:22:01.750 --> 00:22:04.910
the information gets totally biased and misconstrued,

00:22:04.930 --> 00:22:07.809
but just people who are actually successful learning

00:22:07.809 --> 00:22:10.789
from that. So when we're done, you'll definitely

00:22:10.789 --> 00:22:14.049
have to give me any leads and clues on that because

00:22:14.049 --> 00:22:16.529
it sounds amazing. Absolutely. I'll send you

00:22:16.529 --> 00:22:19.390
the episode because Doug talks about pulling

00:22:19.390 --> 00:22:22.809
his son from school. It's this crazy education.

00:22:23.029 --> 00:22:24.970
He basically got him to read the classics, as

00:22:24.970 --> 00:22:27.829
he calls it, Classics with a capital C. So I

00:22:27.829 --> 00:22:31.589
think the first one was The Odyssey. And I think

00:22:31.589 --> 00:22:34.269
Ulysses is another one. But anyway, his very,

00:22:34.369 --> 00:22:36.349
very young child read it. They tried to put him

00:22:36.349 --> 00:22:38.349
back in school and school was like, we have nothing

00:22:38.349 --> 00:22:40.450
for him. He surpassed all our programs. So he

00:22:40.450 --> 00:22:44.009
took it back out again. So, yeah, I mean, fascinating

00:22:44.009 --> 00:22:46.390
story. And he has this kind of PE program. So

00:22:46.390 --> 00:22:49.170
when I was there interviewing face to face, his

00:22:49.170 --> 00:22:51.900
son was there and, you know. jacks wow you know

00:22:51.900 --> 00:22:53.220
they've got all the all the equipment in the

00:22:53.220 --> 00:22:55.400
background indian clubs and all the old man and

00:22:55.400 --> 00:22:57.380
if you start at a young age it's so much easier

00:22:57.380 --> 00:23:00.420
exactly you set the bar knowing what i know now

00:23:00.420 --> 00:23:01.819
i never would have had any problems it would

00:23:01.819 --> 00:23:04.660
i mean it that's what's fascinating about if

00:23:04.660 --> 00:23:08.819
at that at those young ages everything is exponential

00:23:08.819 --> 00:23:12.940
whether it's good or bad and so you can put in

00:23:12.940 --> 00:23:16.319
at those ages it's so much easier to set people

00:23:16.319 --> 00:23:18.759
up for success later in life mentally and physically

00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:21.559
absolutely well you talked about obviously having

00:23:21.559 --> 00:23:24.859
a knee starting to hurt at 12 so walk me through

00:23:24.859 --> 00:23:27.640
your pursuit of basketball and then ultimately

00:23:27.640 --> 00:23:30.980
even though you technically had success with

00:23:30.980 --> 00:23:32.700
the thing that you were looking for how that

00:23:32.700 --> 00:23:35.319
ended up taking you down the path of where you

00:23:35.319 --> 00:23:39.380
are now yeah so because these chronic knee problems

00:23:39.380 --> 00:23:43.539
were starting at age 12 that allowed me 12 13

00:23:43.539 --> 00:23:48.039
14 15 16 so i tried all the traditional methods

00:23:48.590 --> 00:23:51.210
So I went to trainers. I went to physiotherapists.

00:23:51.210 --> 00:23:53.569
I went to doctors. I went to chiropractors. So

00:23:53.569 --> 00:23:58.670
I tried everything. And overwhelmingly mainstream,

00:23:59.009 --> 00:24:01.750
when you have a problem with an area in America,

00:24:01.910 --> 00:24:06.049
is methods of avoiding it. So ice it. So that

00:24:06.049 --> 00:24:09.170
way you don't feel it. Don't let your knees over

00:24:09.170 --> 00:24:11.589
your toes. That way you don't quote unquote stress

00:24:11.589 --> 00:24:15.359
your knee. So from 12 to 18, all I did is go

00:24:15.359 --> 00:24:17.700
through methods of avoidance. So I wind up with

00:24:17.700 --> 00:24:20.039
these absolutely pathetic knees that by the time

00:24:20.039 --> 00:24:23.839
I was 18, I finished high school on a walker

00:24:23.839 --> 00:24:27.259
with partially artificial kneecap. Didn't play

00:24:27.259 --> 00:24:28.980
a single game my senior year of high school.

00:24:29.440 --> 00:24:31.339
So you'd had surgery before you were even 18

00:24:31.339 --> 00:24:34.900
then? Yep. Yeah. So by the time I was 18, I was

00:24:34.900 --> 00:24:41.980
already just a bum. Like a physical just... incapable

00:24:41.980 --> 00:24:45.460
couldn't even play my sport i had the skill level

00:24:45.460 --> 00:24:48.279
that i should have been enjoying my senior year

00:24:48.279 --> 00:24:51.779
playing and being able to be in high school games

00:24:51.779 --> 00:24:55.599
and i already felt like an old man and i had

00:24:55.599 --> 00:24:58.240
tried all these methods of avoidance but it was

00:24:58.240 --> 00:25:01.059
also because i was such a had such a savage work

00:25:01.059 --> 00:25:03.740
ethic so i tested the system so the traditional

00:25:03.740 --> 00:25:06.519
system doesn't work leaves your knees vulnerable

00:25:06.519 --> 00:25:09.599
and it scientifically avoids exactly what your

00:25:09.599 --> 00:25:12.690
knees need In order to heal and be strong and

00:25:12.690 --> 00:25:15.170
protected. So then I went just my own route.

00:25:15.269 --> 00:25:19.549
So now 19, 20, 21, 22. Now you're talking four

00:25:19.549 --> 00:25:22.569
years of me experimenting only with stuff outside

00:25:22.569 --> 00:25:27.049
the box. So by 23, I was accepting a full ride

00:25:27.049 --> 00:25:29.950
division one basketball scholarship. One of the

00:25:29.950 --> 00:25:31.869
oldest players ever to get a full ride division

00:25:31.869 --> 00:25:35.329
one basketball scholarship. So I completely remade

00:25:35.329 --> 00:25:37.640
my knees. from a player who couldn't play to

00:25:37.640 --> 00:25:39.960
a player who could play. And I played two years

00:25:39.960 --> 00:25:42.940
at a junior college. So 22, 23, I was playing

00:25:42.940 --> 00:25:45.720
at a junior college. I started every game. I

00:25:45.720 --> 00:25:48.559
played the most minutes on the team. So by 18,

00:25:48.740 --> 00:25:52.420
I was Mr. Fragile. By 22, 23, I had like the

00:25:52.420 --> 00:25:55.220
best knees on my team. And from that point, they

00:25:55.220 --> 00:25:58.579
only kept getting better. But it was at, I got

00:25:58.579 --> 00:26:02.750
this full ride scholarship at 23. I got to the

00:26:02.750 --> 00:26:05.069
school and the strength coach at this prestigious

00:26:05.069 --> 00:26:08.130
Division I college said, you're not allowed to

00:26:08.130 --> 00:26:12.049
train your knees over your toes. That's how I

00:26:12.049 --> 00:26:15.109
got the scholarship. Bending my knees all the

00:26:15.109 --> 00:26:17.950
way, embracing full range of motion, gradually

00:26:17.950 --> 00:26:21.470
rebuilding healthier, stronger joints. I was

00:26:21.470 --> 00:26:24.410
going to be prevented from doing that. So that

00:26:24.410 --> 00:26:26.970
was a totally eye -opening moment that I knew,

00:26:27.130 --> 00:26:33.759
I knew, wow, my, My mission here is not about

00:26:33.759 --> 00:26:36.259
my basketball career. I'm one person. This means

00:26:36.259 --> 00:26:38.420
that basketball players everywhere are being

00:26:38.420 --> 00:26:40.740
led towards lives of depression and surgeries

00:26:40.740 --> 00:26:44.940
and painkillers. So that became my mission. So

00:26:44.940 --> 00:26:47.839
maybe it sounds crazy to be knees over toes guy.

00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:50.940
But if you look back on the journey I went through,

00:26:51.019 --> 00:26:52.799
it was pretty clear. I actually had no choice

00:26:52.799 --> 00:26:55.440
but to be knees over toes guy after being prevented

00:26:55.440 --> 00:26:58.019
from knees over toes through those younger years,

00:26:58.099 --> 00:27:01.079
leading to weak knees. Then using knees over

00:27:01.079 --> 00:27:03.720
toes to restore my knees and achieve my dreams

00:27:03.720 --> 00:27:06.380
of a Division I basketball scholarship to only

00:27:06.380 --> 00:27:08.640
then get there and be told I can't train my knees

00:27:08.640 --> 00:27:12.079
over my toes equals, I mean, I had no choice.

00:27:12.119 --> 00:27:14.980
I had to be a knees over toes guy. Well, it mirrors

00:27:14.980 --> 00:27:17.359
the journey that I've been on. I talk a lot about

00:27:17.359 --> 00:27:20.960
the podcast is more about unlearning than learning.

00:27:21.450 --> 00:27:25.150
And the foundation of this PE program was from

00:27:25.150 --> 00:27:27.470
the Russians, the Chinese, the Indians. I mean,

00:27:27.470 --> 00:27:29.170
all these different movement practices that we've

00:27:29.170 --> 00:27:32.970
had for millennia that we disregarded out of

00:27:32.970 --> 00:27:37.109
a lot of arrogance and capitalism. Our generation,

00:27:37.109 --> 00:27:39.109
we grew up with nutrition. Like, oh, you've got

00:27:39.109 --> 00:27:41.490
a bowl of pasta. You've got to carb up before

00:27:41.490 --> 00:27:44.210
a race. And all your movements were bodybuilding

00:27:44.210 --> 00:27:49.319
movements. For example, we talked before we started

00:27:49.319 --> 00:27:51.259
recording foundation training after I hurt my

00:27:51.259 --> 00:27:54.680
back. A simple movement practice was what ended

00:27:54.680 --> 00:27:56.839
up healing it. But the only advice I got from

00:27:56.839 --> 00:27:59.140
the medical world was steroids, opiates, and

00:27:59.140 --> 00:28:03.099
surgery. But I'm sure that coach had been through

00:28:03.099 --> 00:28:06.200
traditional ex -phys training as I have. And

00:28:06.200 --> 00:28:10.220
I've talked mixed emotions about that. And it

00:28:10.220 --> 00:28:12.019
was probably coming from good intention. Oh,

00:28:12.039 --> 00:28:14.279
I'm going to protect your knees. But sadly...

00:28:14.940 --> 00:28:16.839
we're realizing now that a lot of things our

00:28:16.839 --> 00:28:19.779
generation has been taught in so many areas was

00:28:19.779 --> 00:28:22.279
just wrong and sometimes came from a place of

00:28:22.279 --> 00:28:26.000
profit, not health and wellness. Yeah. I mean,

00:28:26.019 --> 00:28:27.740
I think if you look at our culture, we definitely

00:28:27.740 --> 00:28:30.880
assumed that technology, anything technology

00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:36.059
equaled better. Only now we're learning, whoops,

00:28:36.140 --> 00:28:40.680
actually technology can serve us, but what's

00:28:40.680 --> 00:28:43.740
natural is important too. just repairing all

00:28:43.740 --> 00:28:46.200
our joints with surgeries is not nearly as good

00:28:46.200 --> 00:28:49.720
as naturally having a healthy body. So it's very

00:28:49.720 --> 00:28:52.579
easy to understand how all this stuff came about.

00:28:53.339 --> 00:28:57.420
It's easy to understand why we assumed that surgeries

00:28:57.420 --> 00:29:00.460
and complex drugs would be better for our joints

00:29:00.460 --> 00:29:04.059
than naturally having strong joints. So with

00:29:04.059 --> 00:29:05.680
the knees over the toes, with the full range

00:29:05.680 --> 00:29:07.980
of motion, if you were to take these younger

00:29:07.980 --> 00:29:12.390
students and have them just using their natural

00:29:12.390 --> 00:29:16.109
full range of motion. What that does is it provides

00:29:16.109 --> 00:29:19.130
motion and compression in the joint, which tells

00:29:19.130 --> 00:29:21.509
the body that you're maximally using the joint,

00:29:21.589 --> 00:29:24.309
which delivers nutrients to the joint. So you

00:29:24.309 --> 00:29:27.109
actually have stronger tendons and ligaments,

00:29:27.170 --> 00:29:29.529
the things that hold our knees together. So when

00:29:29.529 --> 00:29:31.750
you start limiting range of motion in the knee,

00:29:31.809 --> 00:29:33.750
your body then thinks you're not fully using

00:29:33.750 --> 00:29:36.130
the joint. So the knee actually decays faster.

00:29:36.369 --> 00:29:39.460
You wind up weaker inside your knee. So in sports

00:29:39.460 --> 00:29:41.960
teams, they're often dealing with athletes who

00:29:41.960 --> 00:29:44.500
have painful knees. So they avoid full range

00:29:44.500 --> 00:29:46.160
of motion because they don't know any tricks

00:29:46.160 --> 00:29:48.220
to get in there. So they're still training the

00:29:48.220 --> 00:29:51.460
muscle. So the muscles can fire, but the joints

00:29:51.460 --> 00:29:53.259
are weak. So it's almost like you're winding

00:29:53.259 --> 00:29:57.599
up with a lot of these elite male athletes. It's

00:29:57.599 --> 00:30:00.759
almost like they have the joints of an older

00:30:00.759 --> 00:30:03.279
person, but they have the muscles of a younger

00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:05.740
person. And so when they go out to perform, they

00:30:05.740 --> 00:30:07.660
wonder why they're having these freak joint injuries.

00:30:07.779 --> 00:30:09.500
But if you were to actually get down and measure

00:30:09.500 --> 00:30:12.900
it, they have thin, weak tendons and ligaments.

00:30:12.920 --> 00:30:15.079
They're internally weak because they don't train

00:30:15.079 --> 00:30:17.180
through a full range of motion. Well, talk to

00:30:17.180 --> 00:30:18.660
me about stress. I've heard you touch on this

00:30:18.660 --> 00:30:20.740
before because when you look at the word stress,

00:30:20.880 --> 00:30:22.759
you have eustress and you have distress. And

00:30:22.759 --> 00:30:25.500
to me, the muscle imbalances, I mean, you know,

00:30:25.500 --> 00:30:28.599
the journey of self -discovery I went with my

00:30:28.599 --> 00:30:31.349
back was, you know, there was... tightness and

00:30:31.349 --> 00:30:33.950
weakness in the posterior chain my my pelvis

00:30:33.950 --> 00:30:36.390
was tilted so when i lifted this person you know

00:30:36.390 --> 00:30:38.410
my my spine was basically like a pizza slice

00:30:38.410 --> 00:30:42.730
and the ligaments tore um and uh you know but

00:30:42.730 --> 00:30:45.609
then when you look at that you realize well yeah

00:30:45.609 --> 00:30:48.210
when you have a column of strength around the

00:30:48.210 --> 00:30:50.529
spine it's not sitting on the bones themselves

00:30:50.529 --> 00:30:54.170
you can create incredible positive stress so

00:30:55.000 --> 00:30:57.519
i've heard you talk about needing stress on these

00:30:57.519 --> 00:31:00.059
to create resilience and strength so i'd love

00:31:00.059 --> 00:31:02.640
to kind of expand on that a little bit yeah and

00:31:02.640 --> 00:31:05.900
it's it's no different than uh doing a push -up

00:31:05.900 --> 00:31:08.539
to put stress on the pectoral muscles but for

00:31:08.539 --> 00:31:10.680
the joint the joint actually has to go through

00:31:10.680 --> 00:31:12.660
a full range of motion to have stress on the

00:31:12.660 --> 00:31:15.000
joint so in your case if you think about the

00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:17.859
back whatever you were doing in life that amount

00:31:17.859 --> 00:31:21.599
of stress exceeded your body's capacity to handle

00:31:21.599 --> 00:31:23.920
stress But the only way to increase the body's

00:31:23.920 --> 00:31:27.079
capacity to handle stress is by applying an amount

00:31:27.079 --> 00:31:30.799
of stress that you can handle without pain. So

00:31:30.799 --> 00:31:35.539
if you took something as simple as like dragging

00:31:35.539 --> 00:31:39.180
a sled backward, that gives you something that

00:31:39.180 --> 00:31:43.700
you can win at and you can apply stress to the

00:31:43.700 --> 00:31:46.380
knees at a level that doesn't hurt. So if it

00:31:46.380 --> 00:31:48.140
doesn't hurt, but you're able to actually get

00:31:48.140 --> 00:31:50.720
into these positions. then you can build up strength.

00:31:50.859 --> 00:31:52.660
So then you can handle these positions without

00:31:52.660 --> 00:31:56.880
pain. But if I just dropped someone with knee

00:31:56.880 --> 00:32:00.079
pain off a two -story house, that's also stress,

00:32:00.200 --> 00:32:02.480
but it's so much stress that it's going to actually

00:32:02.480 --> 00:32:05.619
tear things. So we're trying to provide an amount

00:32:05.619 --> 00:32:08.299
of stress at a level that you can handle without

00:32:08.299 --> 00:32:10.799
any pain. That's why if you start when you're

00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:13.160
young, it's much easier to have these areas protected.

00:32:13.480 --> 00:32:16.559
But we have people of all ages that are still

00:32:16.559 --> 00:32:20.170
seeing that you can make physical progress the

00:32:20.170 --> 00:32:22.049
trick is the whole system is basically how to

00:32:22.049 --> 00:32:26.829
get into positions that you want to be good at

00:32:26.829 --> 00:32:32.690
but then reducing the techniques or loads to

00:32:32.690 --> 00:32:34.930
a level where it's like oh wow that feels good

00:32:34.930 --> 00:32:37.150
and now so now you're going through motions and

00:32:37.150 --> 00:32:40.710
you're providing that keyword stress so you're

00:32:40.710 --> 00:32:42.930
providing that but at a level that doesn't hurt

00:32:42.930 --> 00:32:45.829
then your body recovers back a little bit stronger

00:32:45.829 --> 00:32:50.450
and so you can change over time So with all the

00:32:50.450 --> 00:32:52.289
traditional routes that you took that weren't

00:32:52.289 --> 00:32:55.109
helping, I've heard you talk about Charles Poliquin,

00:32:55.170 --> 00:32:57.410
for example. What were some of the great minds

00:32:57.410 --> 00:33:01.450
that brought the solutions to you? Yeah. So Charles

00:33:01.450 --> 00:33:03.869
Poliquin was the first person that I saw just

00:33:03.869 --> 00:33:07.609
clear as day say the knee that can go farthest

00:33:07.609 --> 00:33:10.289
and strongest over the toes is the most protected.

00:33:10.430 --> 00:33:13.589
Up to that point, I was only instructed no knees

00:33:13.589 --> 00:33:16.390
over toes. I was also instructed don't bend your

00:33:16.390 --> 00:33:19.880
knee below 90 degrees. Charles Baldwin also said

00:33:19.880 --> 00:33:22.619
that, no, no, no, the knee that can bend farther,

00:33:22.779 --> 00:33:25.839
the knee that can bend more and stronger is more

00:33:25.839 --> 00:33:29.940
protected. So that was super eye -opening. Had

00:33:29.940 --> 00:33:32.200
I not been through what I had been through, I

00:33:32.200 --> 00:33:34.759
probably would have dismissed the data. Because

00:33:34.759 --> 00:33:36.599
I had already been through all these methods

00:33:36.599 --> 00:33:38.279
of avoidance, because I had been through the

00:33:38.279 --> 00:33:41.180
opposite of what he was saying, I instantly knew

00:33:41.180 --> 00:33:44.839
when I saw that, I went, that is truth. From

00:33:44.839 --> 00:33:49.240
there, I just went down the research rabbit hole,

00:33:49.400 --> 00:33:51.400
read everything he's ever written many times

00:33:51.400 --> 00:33:54.380
over. He was a little bit older and didn't have

00:33:54.380 --> 00:33:56.920
videos of himself doing what he was talking about

00:33:56.920 --> 00:33:59.440
with the knees. I couldn't, so there's no videos

00:33:59.440 --> 00:34:03.039
of what he was talking about, but he had disciples

00:34:03.039 --> 00:34:05.920
who had videos. So one of his disciples, Keegan

00:34:05.920 --> 00:34:09.420
Smith, an Australian strength coach, he had videos

00:34:09.420 --> 00:34:13.519
of performing these full range of motion and

00:34:13.519 --> 00:34:16.579
knees over toes exercises. So I used that as

00:34:16.579 --> 00:34:20.280
like a framework for my form. And now Keegan's

00:34:20.280 --> 00:34:23.639
one of my best friends and he actually runs our

00:34:23.639 --> 00:34:26.300
certification program. So together, yeah. So

00:34:26.300 --> 00:34:29.780
my business is ATG. It's the super simple business

00:34:29.780 --> 00:34:32.739
where what I'm doing in the gym, these regressions

00:34:32.739 --> 00:34:34.800
that I've figured out, people can do it anywhere.

00:34:35.059 --> 00:34:39.420
And then together we run ATG for coaches. So

00:34:39.420 --> 00:34:42.820
we have over 600 coaches around the world who

00:34:42.820 --> 00:34:48.070
are being certified. in ATG. And so it's funny

00:34:48.070 --> 00:34:50.710
how that came full circle. So he's to this day,

00:34:50.829 --> 00:34:54.670
he's still my mentor, still helping me fine tune

00:34:54.670 --> 00:34:58.110
the educational process for people on this. But

00:34:58.110 --> 00:34:59.929
that was really it. Because of what I've been

00:34:59.929 --> 00:35:01.650
through, when I saw that from Charles Pollock,

00:35:01.670 --> 00:35:04.510
when I knew that was the answer. However, because

00:35:04.510 --> 00:35:07.909
I was super fragile, I had to figure out more,

00:35:08.030 --> 00:35:10.630
I had to figure out lower levels of this. So

00:35:11.079 --> 00:35:13.219
You take something that's ideal. So I could see

00:35:13.219 --> 00:35:14.820
Keegan Smith doing it. And I was like, I want

00:35:14.820 --> 00:35:16.699
my knees to be able to do that. But my knees

00:35:16.699 --> 00:35:19.960
can't do that without excruciating pain. So,

00:35:19.960 --> 00:35:24.699
I mean, something as simple as just sitting down

00:35:24.699 --> 00:35:26.500
in a squat position with your knees bent all

00:35:26.500 --> 00:35:29.679
the way. Something like that seemed like climbing

00:35:29.679 --> 00:35:31.820
a mountain to me back when my knees were so bad

00:35:31.820 --> 00:35:33.900
and with partially artificial kneecap that was

00:35:33.900 --> 00:35:37.000
never supposed to fully bend again. So what I

00:35:37.000 --> 00:35:40.039
did is I just figured out lower levels than had

00:35:40.039 --> 00:35:44.159
been used. So, um, by figuring out lower levels

00:35:44.159 --> 00:35:46.079
and then putting in the work at those levels,

00:35:46.219 --> 00:35:49.920
then I was able to restore what should be natural.

00:35:50.079 --> 00:35:52.739
What a lot of people don't even think twice about

00:35:52.739 --> 00:35:54.820
a lot of people in foreign countries, it would

00:35:54.820 --> 00:35:57.199
actually be very hard to explain to them. People

00:35:57.199 --> 00:36:01.300
in foreign countries, like I've had people comment

00:36:01.300 --> 00:36:05.219
and they are completely confused by me teaching

00:36:05.219 --> 00:36:09.139
a full range of motion because they're just.

00:36:10.119 --> 00:36:13.440
in that position regularly so it's so weird for

00:36:13.440 --> 00:36:16.719
them to see like that some people are actually

00:36:16.719 --> 00:36:20.579
limiting human range of motion yeah yeah no it's

00:36:20.579 --> 00:36:22.360
interesting because i mean yeah you look at asia

00:36:22.360 --> 00:36:24.159
and you look at some of the the less developed

00:36:24.159 --> 00:36:27.239
countries and these elderly men and women are

00:36:27.239 --> 00:36:30.059
you know working the land and hunting and incredible

00:36:30.059 --> 00:36:32.199
you know and some of the the asian cultures they'll

00:36:32.199 --> 00:36:34.840
sit in that full squat for hours and yet i'm

00:36:34.840 --> 00:36:36.340
not going to point at other people me if i try

00:36:36.340 --> 00:36:39.179
to sit and squat for 10 minutes i'd be in pain

00:36:39.550 --> 00:36:42.190
And as you pointed out before, I'm not the least

00:36:42.190 --> 00:36:45.210
in shape person on the planet either. But the

00:36:45.210 --> 00:36:46.829
sitting and all that stuff. In America, you're

00:36:46.829 --> 00:36:51.090
a gem. So that just shows. But look at the years

00:36:51.090 --> 00:36:54.869
that we've lived unnaturally. Exactly. So we're

00:36:54.869 --> 00:36:57.170
trying to restore that. But you're really looking

00:36:57.170 --> 00:37:00.809
at a lifetime, at years, maybe decades for most

00:37:00.809 --> 00:37:05.269
of us of letting our knees decay. Now with Keegan

00:37:05.269 --> 00:37:08.670
for a second, having had Charles' teaching, sadly

00:37:08.670 --> 00:37:10.889
we lost him a couple years ago now, I think it

00:37:10.889 --> 00:37:14.070
was, but carrying that on, what was he seeing,

00:37:14.190 --> 00:37:17.369
trying to coach through that lens with what was

00:37:17.369 --> 00:37:20.070
being taught with most of the strength and conditioning

00:37:20.070 --> 00:37:27.369
community? I think Keegan felt the frustration

00:37:27.369 --> 00:37:30.389
of knowing how much better the system could be,

00:37:30.429 --> 00:37:34.960
but... seeing how entrenched the system is in

00:37:34.960 --> 00:37:39.340
its ways so i think that's why we really connected

00:37:39.340 --> 00:37:43.500
is that he was able to guide me but he could

00:37:43.500 --> 00:37:47.800
see like that i was gonna like go big and actually

00:37:47.800 --> 00:37:50.920
try to change the system so together we just

00:37:50.920 --> 00:37:52.900
kind of would hype ourselves up like look like

00:37:52.900 --> 00:37:55.500
the future's unwritten like we could actually

00:37:55.500 --> 00:37:57.519
do this like we can actually change things for

00:37:57.519 --> 00:38:00.539
sports and it's only just barely starting to

00:38:00.539 --> 00:38:03.260
happen but it is actually happening and players

00:38:03.260 --> 00:38:05.880
are getting more freedom in their training so

00:38:05.880 --> 00:38:10.019
um that's that's still what keegan and i are

00:38:10.019 --> 00:38:12.699
waking up for in the morning is actually trying

00:38:12.699 --> 00:38:15.619
to change the system and charles was such a genius

00:38:15.619 --> 00:38:19.340
but the system wasn't changing and i think that

00:38:19.340 --> 00:38:23.860
made him very frustrated so i saw with charles

00:38:23.860 --> 00:38:28.000
that um he had all the tools he had all the genius

00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:31.039
and i think I realized that my responsibility

00:38:31.039 --> 00:38:35.039
was going to be taking that genius and then applying

00:38:35.039 --> 00:38:39.400
my mind not to being right, not to being a genius,

00:38:39.559 --> 00:38:43.480
but to what would actually get it to work, how

00:38:43.480 --> 00:38:47.519
to actually get that data applied. And so figuring

00:38:47.519 --> 00:38:51.380
out these scalable sort of routes and then studying

00:38:51.380 --> 00:38:53.800
social media, how do I actually reach millions

00:38:53.800 --> 00:38:56.519
of people? Okay, so millions of people have data

00:38:56.519 --> 00:38:59.199
that has now been proven incorrect. but it's

00:38:59.199 --> 00:39:02.159
in the college textbooks. So how do I counteract

00:39:02.159 --> 00:39:03.880
that? Well, I'm going to have to master social

00:39:03.880 --> 00:39:07.579
media. So this is what I did starting about three

00:39:07.579 --> 00:39:10.840
years ago. I was like, okay, the same focus I

00:39:10.840 --> 00:39:13.139
have on being the best coach I can be, I'm going

00:39:13.139 --> 00:39:16.099
to have to put that same study into social media

00:39:16.099 --> 00:39:19.619
and how to reach people. So now we're pretty

00:39:19.619 --> 00:39:21.440
stoked with things because we're seeing that

00:39:21.440 --> 00:39:25.000
we really can produce change. We really can win.

00:39:25.179 --> 00:39:28.469
The truth doesn't have to be the obscure. uh

00:39:28.469 --> 00:39:31.030
attacked thing we actually can bring truth to

00:39:31.030 --> 00:39:35.369
light so it's it's really exciting yeah well

00:39:35.369 --> 00:39:37.590
and it's bringing that technology the good side

00:39:37.590 --> 00:39:39.030
of technology because i think social media is

00:39:39.030 --> 00:39:41.769
an incredible tool i agree but has been abused

00:39:41.769 --> 00:39:43.969
and obviously is really kind of broken down a

00:39:43.969 --> 00:39:47.690
lot of social elements but you found a way of

00:39:47.690 --> 00:39:50.090
getting people's attention and getting them to

00:39:50.090 --> 00:39:52.869
learn without wearing a bikini for example i

00:39:52.869 --> 00:39:55.170
tried that i got like two views i mean i'm trying

00:39:55.170 --> 00:39:58.400
that next week But if it is that, because there

00:39:58.400 --> 00:40:00.539
is an art to it, and we discussed before, it's

00:40:00.539 --> 00:40:02.659
challenging for me because I don't want my face

00:40:02.659 --> 00:40:05.880
out there. I want the focus to be on the people

00:40:05.880 --> 00:40:09.440
that come on with the solutions. But even in

00:40:09.440 --> 00:40:13.139
the few things that I do, I see that juggling

00:40:13.139 --> 00:40:17.099
act between capturing the initial attention with

00:40:17.099 --> 00:40:21.139
that opening moment and then... maintaining that

00:40:21.139 --> 00:40:23.300
attention to the point where you can deliver

00:40:23.300 --> 00:40:25.019
good content because i've put lots of stuff out

00:40:25.019 --> 00:40:27.559
there that's been brilliant content and as i've

00:40:27.559 --> 00:40:29.900
heard you talk about too it's barely even watched

00:40:29.900 --> 00:40:31.739
and then i've done things as we talked about

00:40:31.739 --> 00:40:33.760
before we start recording like done a spinning

00:40:33.760 --> 00:40:35.880
hydrant a spinning kick on a fire hydrant and

00:40:35.880 --> 00:40:38.380
goes viral you know so it's it's heartbreaking

00:40:38.380 --> 00:40:42.460
really um so you know what what was some of the

00:40:42.460 --> 00:40:45.880
ways that you were able to to kind of solve that

00:40:45.880 --> 00:40:49.230
puzzle and combine that shiny object with with

00:40:49.230 --> 00:40:51.449
the content actually being you know absorbed

00:40:51.449 --> 00:40:55.510
by the viewer yeah uh sounds super simplistic

00:40:55.510 --> 00:40:58.349
but for me it was dunking because with dunking

00:40:58.349 --> 00:41:01.210
i could do something that people tend to those

00:41:01.210 --> 00:41:04.190
type of videos it's not like it's the most viral

00:41:04.190 --> 00:41:06.889
thing on the internet but the throwing down a

00:41:06.889 --> 00:41:09.110
dunk seems to capture the attention like it's

00:41:09.110 --> 00:41:11.869
a it's this action thing and it's also people

00:41:11.869 --> 00:41:15.869
kind of inherently know like Yeah, if you're

00:41:15.869 --> 00:41:18.150
if you're not tall and you have terrible knees,

00:41:18.409 --> 00:41:22.829
that's like impossible to do. So really just

00:41:22.829 --> 00:41:25.690
using that to show to capture the attention.

00:41:25.989 --> 00:41:28.489
And then I often in these videos, I'm going from

00:41:28.489 --> 00:41:31.190
dunking to showing exercise regressions that

00:41:31.190 --> 00:41:35.289
people can do at any age. So to me, that's really

00:41:35.289 --> 00:41:39.780
that's where I found. is the best marketing is

00:41:39.780 --> 00:41:42.280
like my purpose in the video is to get across

00:41:42.280 --> 00:41:44.659
and show someone something that they can actually

00:41:44.659 --> 00:41:48.239
do but i'm going to try to use something to capture

00:41:48.239 --> 00:41:51.719
the attention in order to get them to watch to

00:41:51.719 --> 00:41:54.079
the point of seeing how they could actually progress

00:41:54.079 --> 00:41:57.960
now in the fire service when we talk about knee

00:41:57.960 --> 00:42:00.900
injuries it it's sad because it's mirrors so

00:42:00.900 --> 00:42:02.960
if we talk about ptsd they always talk about

00:42:02.960 --> 00:42:05.159
oh it's what we saw on the job absolutely an

00:42:05.159 --> 00:42:07.440
element, but a very small piece of the pie when

00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:09.380
you look at sleep deprivation, childhood trauma,

00:42:09.460 --> 00:42:12.019
all these other areas. Same with cancer. We talk

00:42:12.019 --> 00:42:14.699
about what we're exposed to. We don't talk about

00:42:14.699 --> 00:42:17.219
what we eat, our exercise level, sleep again.

00:42:17.639 --> 00:42:19.940
And when it comes to knees, the one thing I hear

00:42:19.940 --> 00:42:21.940
over and over again is, oh, well, we step off

00:42:21.940 --> 00:42:24.000
the rig, step off the fire engine or truck. And

00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:26.260
it is steep, and sometimes we've got our gear

00:42:26.260 --> 00:42:29.860
on. It's not the least cumbersome thing that

00:42:29.860 --> 00:42:33.519
we do. But at the same time, Right from the beginning,

00:42:33.579 --> 00:42:35.559
I've always been like that can't like the human

00:42:35.559 --> 00:42:38.059
body is so much stronger and more resilient that

00:42:38.059 --> 00:42:41.039
people give it credit to. So we talked about,

00:42:41.059 --> 00:42:43.420
you know, some of the errors as far as strength

00:42:43.420 --> 00:42:46.699
and conditioning philosophies in general in life.

00:42:46.800 --> 00:42:48.619
What are some of the things that are contributing

00:42:48.619 --> 00:42:52.360
to the Western developed world having knee pain

00:42:52.360 --> 00:42:55.599
specifically or knee injuries? Yeah. Well, it

00:42:55.599 --> 00:42:57.900
starts when we're young. When we're in school,

00:42:58.059 --> 00:43:00.199
we start sitting in chairs for like eight hours

00:43:00.199 --> 00:43:04.050
a day. So we get very used to that. imagine when

00:43:04.050 --> 00:43:06.250
we're eight, nine, 10, 11, if we were allowed,

00:43:06.550 --> 00:43:09.010
like I wasn't, you weren't allowed to get out

00:43:09.010 --> 00:43:12.150
of your chair and rest in a deep squat or you

00:43:12.150 --> 00:43:14.050
see the positions that kids naturally want to

00:43:14.050 --> 00:43:17.090
sit in. When you watch younger kids, they're

00:43:17.090 --> 00:43:19.510
in all these flexible knee and hip positions.

00:43:19.989 --> 00:43:23.789
So, so much of the, okay, eight -year -old kids

00:43:23.789 --> 00:43:27.070
don't have an epidemic of knee pain and they're

00:43:27.070 --> 00:43:29.909
going off the swing set and dropping from like

00:43:29.909 --> 00:43:32.409
six feet high and they're They don't have an

00:43:32.409 --> 00:43:35.090
epidemic of knee pain. As we get older, we're

00:43:35.090 --> 00:43:38.190
trying to restore the very mobility that those

00:43:38.190 --> 00:43:40.730
kids have. So we can see it's not just like an

00:43:40.730 --> 00:43:42.710
absolute of strength that protects us because

00:43:42.710 --> 00:43:44.750
here these kids aren't very strong, but they're

00:43:44.750 --> 00:43:47.610
very protected. So their joints are very strong.

00:43:48.190 --> 00:43:51.389
So then as we get older, I mean, if you think

00:43:51.389 --> 00:43:53.849
about the exercises we were doing today, first

00:43:53.849 --> 00:43:56.110
we were trying to get circulation going. And

00:43:56.110 --> 00:43:58.730
then really we were trying to restore youthful

00:43:58.730 --> 00:44:01.030
positions. We're trying to restore the mobility

00:44:01.030 --> 00:44:03.449
that we had when we were kids. And that tends

00:44:03.449 --> 00:44:05.949
to make the joints feel better. So I think right

00:44:05.949 --> 00:44:09.010
off the bat, when we're in school, if we're allowed

00:44:09.010 --> 00:44:15.309
to sit on the floor, so floor time, the supple

00:44:15.309 --> 00:44:18.849
leopard mobility man, Kelly Starrett. Yes. You've

00:44:18.849 --> 00:44:21.150
heard of him? Yep. All right. He's a legend in

00:44:21.150 --> 00:44:24.489
the mobility world. And he directly told me that

00:44:24.489 --> 00:44:27.429
that's one of the things that would really improve.

00:44:29.039 --> 00:44:31.340
people's joint health as they age is if when

00:44:31.340 --> 00:44:33.320
we were in school if we were allowed to be out

00:44:33.320 --> 00:44:36.719
of the chair and have and sit on the floor just

00:44:36.719 --> 00:44:38.559
doing that alone would have kept our knees and

00:44:38.559 --> 00:44:42.280
hips much more mobile and pain -free so i think

00:44:42.280 --> 00:44:44.639
that's like the simplest place to start in terms

00:44:44.639 --> 00:44:46.980
of uh kind of what you were saying deviations

00:44:46.980 --> 00:44:49.800
and if you watch little kids if you've ever watched

00:44:49.800 --> 00:44:53.019
a little kid go down the stairs oh my gosh their

00:44:53.019 --> 00:44:56.969
knee bends so much to go like their knee is so

00:44:56.969 --> 00:44:59.730
far over their toes to go down the stairs. So

00:44:59.730 --> 00:45:02.650
then as we get older and then something like

00:45:02.650 --> 00:45:04.630
going down the stairs or a big step down the

00:45:04.630 --> 00:45:08.530
stairs, really, we should probably be able to

00:45:08.530 --> 00:45:11.389
handle that. No problem. Even in a natural lifestyle,

00:45:11.610 --> 00:45:14.309
if we were out in the jungle or whatever, we'd

00:45:14.309 --> 00:45:16.710
be walking down hills or stepping over rocks.

00:45:16.809 --> 00:45:19.150
So these would actually be pretty normal motions.

00:45:19.960 --> 00:45:23.099
um but we get we get so far removed the joint

00:45:23.099 --> 00:45:25.239
gets so weak all of a sudden that becomes painful

00:45:25.239 --> 00:45:27.500
and then it's kind of a dwindling spiral because

00:45:27.500 --> 00:45:30.579
i went through it where you go you're searching

00:45:30.579 --> 00:45:34.679
for which drug or which surgery will fix this

00:45:34.679 --> 00:45:38.719
pain when that can band -aid things or maybe

00:45:38.719 --> 00:45:40.639
give you a reset but then it's like you're starting

00:45:40.639 --> 00:45:42.880
right back over well we just had the gentleman

00:45:42.880 --> 00:45:47.400
walk by not super super old cane you know pronated

00:45:47.400 --> 00:45:50.179
feet just you know shuffling across and that's

00:45:50.179 --> 00:45:52.719
what breaks my heart whether it's obesity whether

00:45:52.719 --> 00:45:54.539
i mean he's still within view now and he walked

00:45:54.539 --> 00:45:58.179
past about 10 minutes ago um you know terrible

00:45:58.179 --> 00:45:59.980
whether it's a veteran that got hurt whether

00:45:59.980 --> 00:46:03.440
it's someone who had you know chronic pain this

00:46:03.440 --> 00:46:06.059
is what our country consists of you know a majority

00:46:06.059 --> 00:46:10.639
of 70 is obese or overweight and So I think that

00:46:10.639 --> 00:46:13.239
there is a push from the wellness perspective

00:46:13.239 --> 00:46:16.280
now, people like yourself, that is coming from

00:46:16.280 --> 00:46:19.619
an altruistic part. Like, it breaks my heart.

00:46:19.679 --> 00:46:22.539
It's not about fat shaming. I'm heartbroken to

00:46:22.539 --> 00:46:24.639
see someone who's morbidly obese because I know

00:46:24.639 --> 00:46:28.099
what they could have been. I know what their

00:46:28.099 --> 00:46:30.159
body could have done, as you said. I know they

00:46:30.159 --> 00:46:32.019
could have played with their children. They could

00:46:32.019 --> 00:46:33.900
have done all these things. And because of the

00:46:33.900 --> 00:46:35.500
way they were taught and their environment, and

00:46:35.500 --> 00:46:37.139
everyone points to personal responsibility. I

00:46:37.139 --> 00:46:39.920
get it, but that's a... byproduct of your environment

00:46:39.920 --> 00:46:42.500
and your upbringing you know we've done such

00:46:42.500 --> 00:46:45.900
a disservice to our people that you know now

00:46:45.900 --> 00:46:48.239
i mean you talk about surgery and opiates it's

00:46:48.239 --> 00:46:50.059
another thing i mean we have a opiate epidemic

00:46:50.059 --> 00:46:53.000
and many many of those when you go to the root

00:46:53.000 --> 00:46:55.780
cause it starts with some sort of injury or surgery

00:46:55.780 --> 00:46:59.539
yep yeah i'm right there with you and for me

00:46:59.539 --> 00:47:02.000
at first it was like it would break my heart

00:47:02.000 --> 00:47:04.659
to see a 12 or 13 year old kid told that their

00:47:04.659 --> 00:47:06.880
knee pain was growing pains because that's been

00:47:07.400 --> 00:47:10.219
shown now that doesn't actually exist like there

00:47:10.219 --> 00:47:12.940
are some certain pains that can occur during

00:47:12.940 --> 00:47:15.880
those years but not in relation to something

00:47:15.880 --> 00:47:17.800
like knee pain like if your knee hurts your knee

00:47:17.800 --> 00:47:21.239
actually hurts it's not there's no just natural

00:47:21.239 --> 00:47:24.900
um yeah your knee is supposed to hurt because

00:47:24.900 --> 00:47:27.260
you're growing and so for some of those kids

00:47:27.260 --> 00:47:29.880
who didn't have as vigorous of lifestyles and

00:47:29.880 --> 00:47:31.559
the hormones kick in and the muscles develop

00:47:31.559 --> 00:47:33.760
but then for other ones they go from being told

00:47:33.760 --> 00:47:35.889
it's growing pains So then it's a full -blown

00:47:35.889 --> 00:47:38.769
condition. Imagine being 13, 14, and you're told

00:47:38.769 --> 00:47:41.889
that you have like, oh, you have Osgood -Schlatter's

00:47:41.889 --> 00:47:46.510
disease. So when I was 12, 13, 14, I had diseases

00:47:46.510 --> 00:47:49.809
in my knees, as told by doctors. I have diseases.

00:47:49.989 --> 00:47:53.590
I had syndromes. So now you're 13, 14, 15, 16,

00:47:53.769 --> 00:47:57.570
and you have diseases and syndromes in your knees

00:47:57.570 --> 00:48:00.530
that come to find out all those diseases and

00:48:00.530 --> 00:48:02.929
syndromes handled with just basic human motion

00:48:02.929 --> 00:48:07.150
and compression. You're right that a disservice

00:48:07.150 --> 00:48:11.570
is being done. It is a broad scale thing. The

00:48:11.570 --> 00:48:15.449
odds of an individual having the intuition to

00:48:15.449 --> 00:48:18.349
know that the system is wrong, to not do it,

00:48:18.389 --> 00:48:21.250
and then come up with answers themselves, you're

00:48:21.250 --> 00:48:25.809
talking about like one in a million. That's nearly

00:48:25.809 --> 00:48:29.349
impossible to do. So for people going through

00:48:29.349 --> 00:48:32.190
it, yeah, the system is set up in a way that

00:48:32.190 --> 00:48:35.780
it's almost like a factory. these problems not

00:48:35.780 --> 00:48:39.360
going away so i mean that's why people like you

00:48:39.360 --> 00:48:41.179
and i are doing what we're doing yeah absolutely

00:48:41.179 --> 00:48:43.280
well it reminds me as well the the foundation

00:48:43.280 --> 00:48:45.920
training founder eric he talks about carpal tunnel

00:48:45.920 --> 00:48:48.880
syndrome and how you know people slice and dice

00:48:48.880 --> 00:48:51.260
these poor people's hands when ultimately the

00:48:51.260 --> 00:48:54.019
root is coming from you know the the spine itself

00:48:54.019 --> 00:48:55.940
and once they fix the shoulders and the neck

00:48:55.940 --> 00:49:00.159
that pain goes away you know so that's there's

00:49:00.159 --> 00:49:02.460
so much power in this preventative movement practice

00:49:02.460 --> 00:49:05.500
but you know again back to the the personal responsibility

00:49:05.500 --> 00:49:09.059
it takes work like my back rehab journey that

00:49:09.059 --> 00:49:12.179
i was on for five months was painful it was hard

00:49:12.179 --> 00:49:14.860
it was you know mentally and physically very

00:49:14.860 --> 00:49:17.780
very challenging but long term it paid dividends

00:49:17.780 --> 00:49:20.800
but again with that environment conversely i

00:49:20.800 --> 00:49:24.480
could have gone had some pills had surgery felt

00:49:24.480 --> 00:49:26.940
good for a bit maybe but i've got two friends

00:49:26.940 --> 00:49:29.920
of firefighters and One has had multiple surgeries

00:49:29.920 --> 00:49:32.219
now. The other one's on his second so far. And

00:49:32.219 --> 00:49:35.099
they just continue to spiral downwards. And again,

00:49:35.219 --> 00:49:38.360
it's heartbreaking. If they had done what I did,

00:49:38.539 --> 00:49:41.000
is it an absolute guarantee? No, but there's

00:49:41.000 --> 00:49:43.139
a high chance that it would have fixed it. Yeah,

00:49:43.139 --> 00:49:45.719
nothing's a guarantee. But you have such a high

00:49:45.719 --> 00:49:49.460
chance if you find a route that has worked for

00:49:49.460 --> 00:49:52.420
other people with your issues rather than doing

00:49:52.420 --> 00:49:55.920
just the short -term Band -Aid treatments. Hard

00:49:55.920 --> 00:49:59.579
now or hard later? The option that's easy now

00:49:59.579 --> 00:50:01.559
but hard later, it usually ends up being pretty

00:50:01.559 --> 00:50:03.900
disastrous later. And with a lot of these physical

00:50:03.900 --> 00:50:08.699
issues, when we stop the activity portion of

00:50:08.699 --> 00:50:13.440
it, the weight just piles up on the body. And

00:50:13.440 --> 00:50:15.960
we know that having excess weight makes it much

00:50:15.960 --> 00:50:18.400
tougher on the joints in the back. Like if you,

00:50:18.480 --> 00:50:22.000
I don't know, it keeps improving. But if you

00:50:22.000 --> 00:50:25.840
Google like what can I do about knee pain, the

00:50:25.840 --> 00:50:29.380
last time I checked, google doesn't give you

00:50:29.380 --> 00:50:31.579
anything you can actually do about knee pain

00:50:31.579 --> 00:50:35.019
only band -aids other than it says you can lose

00:50:35.019 --> 00:50:38.260
weight and that that will help your knees well

00:50:38.260 --> 00:50:40.719
without a route how the heck are you supposed

00:50:40.719 --> 00:50:43.300
to lose weight because for someone who's never

00:50:43.300 --> 00:50:46.420
had joint problems it's often like i got motivated

00:50:46.420 --> 00:50:49.820
i started running x amount of miles a day and

00:50:49.820 --> 00:50:52.519
i lost 100 pounds but what about the person who

00:50:52.519 --> 00:50:56.039
was fine then had knee surgeries now the weight

00:50:56.039 --> 00:51:00.019
has piled on They can't go run. Now you're stuck.

00:51:00.179 --> 00:51:05.400
What do you do? And spoiler alert, sled. Sled

00:51:05.400 --> 00:51:07.559
is what you do because even if you have excess

00:51:07.559 --> 00:51:09.800
body weight, that actually makes it easier to

00:51:09.800 --> 00:51:11.719
move the sled because your weight is moving against

00:51:11.719 --> 00:51:14.699
it. So it gives you something that's low impact

00:51:14.699 --> 00:51:16.780
on the joints that gets your strength training

00:51:16.780 --> 00:51:20.900
and cardio in so you can lose the body fat. and

00:51:20.900 --> 00:51:23.079
get stronger at the exact same time while making

00:51:23.079 --> 00:51:25.559
your joints even more healed. So it is, that's

00:51:25.559 --> 00:51:27.340
why I go on and on about the sled because it's

00:51:27.340 --> 00:51:30.360
the human cheat code for these physical problems.

00:51:30.920 --> 00:51:33.239
Well, it was interesting as well because when

00:51:33.239 --> 00:51:36.679
I started doing this, I had knee surgeries and,

00:51:36.679 --> 00:51:39.869
you know, both my meniscus were torn. Yep, there

00:51:39.869 --> 00:51:42.550
we go. One worse than the other. And, you know,

00:51:42.570 --> 00:51:43.630
it was one of the things where it was locking

00:51:43.630 --> 00:51:46.670
up and as progressive and movement focused as

00:51:46.670 --> 00:51:49.329
I was, at that time, all the things I was doing

00:51:49.329 --> 00:51:51.809
didn't seem to help. And it was, you know, a

00:51:51.809 --> 00:51:53.590
thing that was flapping around in my knee. So

00:51:53.590 --> 00:51:55.150
I'm like, okay, for now, I'm going to get it

00:51:55.150 --> 00:51:57.170
snipped. I hope one day stem cells maybe get

00:51:57.170 --> 00:51:59.269
to the point where I'll be able to get regeneration.

00:51:59.650 --> 00:52:04.989
But then, I don't even know what really was the

00:52:04.989 --> 00:52:08.090
reason, but it started getting worse again recently.

00:52:08.670 --> 00:52:11.530
I do jiu -jitsu. I do stunts. I do cross -fits.

00:52:11.590 --> 00:52:13.769
There's a whole bunch of things I do that, of

00:52:13.769 --> 00:52:17.070
course, batter my knees a little bit. But finding

00:52:17.070 --> 00:52:21.329
your system, it truly has helped. And I was just

00:52:21.329 --> 00:52:23.389
telling you before we were recording, we do this

00:52:23.389 --> 00:52:25.050
draw in jiu -jitsu that used to make my knees

00:52:25.050 --> 00:52:28.670
click, and they don't anymore. And the split

00:52:28.670 --> 00:52:30.630
squat that we did today, when I first did that,

00:52:30.650 --> 00:52:32.630
that was very painful. That's a lot stronger

00:52:32.630 --> 00:52:36.030
now. So I've seen it. I've seen it work. And

00:52:36.030 --> 00:52:40.460
I think that's just it. But when someone comes

00:52:40.460 --> 00:52:42.280
up with something like you have, like Eric has,

00:52:42.420 --> 00:52:46.579
that's truly solving some of these issues, it's

00:52:46.579 --> 00:52:48.719
so powerful because then once you address that

00:52:48.719 --> 00:52:52.219
one -week link, as you said, now you have confidence.

00:52:52.300 --> 00:52:54.199
So for me, I'm getting stronger. Now I'm able

00:52:54.199 --> 00:52:56.179
to lift more. Now I'm able to go back to jiu

00:52:56.179 --> 00:52:59.199
-jitsu, back to CrossFit. So kind of like when

00:52:59.199 --> 00:53:01.599
I talk about CBD, I love CBD, but it's just a

00:53:01.599 --> 00:53:05.969
chalk that you fill a wedge, a gap. that allows

00:53:05.969 --> 00:53:08.010
you then to sleep better. Then you start training

00:53:08.010 --> 00:53:10.789
more. So CBD isn't a magic pill. It's a little

00:53:10.789 --> 00:53:13.349
buffer to get you on, even with knee pain. If

00:53:13.349 --> 00:53:15.329
it's allowing you to do a little bit more ATG,

00:53:15.389 --> 00:53:17.969
then beautiful. But it's these practices then

00:53:17.969 --> 00:53:20.230
that open the door, as you said, to that journey

00:53:20.230 --> 00:53:22.769
where you truly start making gains everywhere

00:53:22.769 --> 00:53:25.389
else. Yeah, and that's how I look at this slide.

00:53:25.449 --> 00:53:28.010
It allows us to get some momentum going. And

00:53:28.010 --> 00:53:31.550
I still look at the human body, that it is still

00:53:31.550 --> 00:53:35.980
relatively a frail thing, but... I'm just so

00:53:35.980 --> 00:53:37.940
grateful that there's stuff we can do about it.

00:53:38.360 --> 00:53:41.860
So that's kind of where my mindset stays is like,

00:53:41.920 --> 00:53:44.739
I'm not trying to give people a magic pill. I'm

00:53:44.739 --> 00:53:46.320
trying to teach them what they can actually do

00:53:46.320 --> 00:53:49.400
about it to improve conditions to some degree.

00:53:49.659 --> 00:53:54.320
So I try to keep it pretty realistic. And to

00:53:54.320 --> 00:53:56.500
me, that's the gift. I'm appreciative for it

00:53:56.500 --> 00:53:58.519
every day. I keep a list of what I'm appreciative

00:53:58.519 --> 00:54:01.039
for. And like one of the things I'm appreciative

00:54:01.039 --> 00:54:03.340
for is just the... knowledge that i know how

00:54:03.340 --> 00:54:05.400
to go use a sled and instantly start getting

00:54:05.400 --> 00:54:07.519
that circulation that i can go get a workout

00:54:07.519 --> 00:54:10.000
in five minutes that's going to make my body

00:54:10.000 --> 00:54:12.960
last longer well in the fire service i think

00:54:12.960 --> 00:54:15.300
one of the challenges that we have is when like

00:54:15.300 --> 00:54:18.000
again talk about environment The fire department

00:54:18.000 --> 00:54:21.400
are fighting uphill. They work 56 -hour weeks

00:54:21.400 --> 00:54:24.360
usually, don't sleep every third day. Sometimes

00:54:24.360 --> 00:54:26.280
they get told they can't go home, they have to

00:54:26.280 --> 00:54:29.039
stay another one. So their environment is absolutely

00:54:29.039 --> 00:54:31.380
set up for failure. So the ones that are very

00:54:31.380 --> 00:54:33.920
fit and healthy is despite the environment usually,

00:54:34.079 --> 00:54:37.039
not because of it. And so you get a lot of responders

00:54:37.039 --> 00:54:39.599
five, ten years into their career that just aren't

00:54:39.599 --> 00:54:42.460
the stellar men and women that stood on that

00:54:42.460 --> 00:54:46.739
drill ground day one. There's an element of guilt

00:54:46.739 --> 00:54:48.920
and shame attached to it. And what I found with

00:54:48.920 --> 00:54:51.119
the sled and some of the strongman training that

00:54:51.119 --> 00:54:54.960
I do is it's also a great tool to remove all

00:54:54.960 --> 00:54:57.579
that fear of looking stupid. So, you know, we

00:54:57.579 --> 00:54:58.760
could come in here and you go, all right, James,

00:54:58.860 --> 00:55:00.260
we're going to do Turkish get -ups and we're

00:55:00.260 --> 00:55:02.699
going to do some snatches. You know, my skill

00:55:02.699 --> 00:55:05.059
level dictates whether I can even do those. But

00:55:05.059 --> 00:55:06.739
if you just say, hey, put this around your waist

00:55:06.739 --> 00:55:09.719
and walk backwards, it's equally as effective.

00:55:09.820 --> 00:55:12.239
It actually mirrors fire ground tasks for my

00:55:12.239 --> 00:55:14.780
community. Backwards is dragging someone out

00:55:14.780 --> 00:55:16.820
of a fire. Forwards is advancing a charged hose

00:55:16.820 --> 00:55:20.019
line. So you can literally, but you remove any

00:55:20.019 --> 00:55:22.840
kind of fear of looking stupid, which I found

00:55:22.840 --> 00:55:25.219
is a big barrier for a lot of people. So the

00:55:25.219 --> 00:55:28.400
sled is an incredible tool for removing the kind

00:55:28.400 --> 00:55:30.280
of skill element and allowing people just to

00:55:30.280 --> 00:55:32.340
do the work itself. That's super interesting.

00:55:32.500 --> 00:55:36.159
Yeah. Fear of how you look doing it. Fear of

00:55:36.159 --> 00:55:40.400
joint pain doing it. Fear of how much time it's

00:55:40.400 --> 00:55:43.449
going to take to do it. Yeah, I think like in

00:55:43.449 --> 00:55:45.969
a firehouse and if you didn't necessarily have

00:55:45.969 --> 00:55:48.989
turf in a sled, there's still the the torque

00:55:48.989 --> 00:55:51.050
fitness makes this tank sled that uses internal

00:55:51.050 --> 00:55:53.329
resistance. And if you belt up, you can still

00:55:53.329 --> 00:55:55.389
do the push. You can still do the push and the

00:55:55.389 --> 00:55:57.809
pull forward and backward. And that you can just

00:55:57.809 --> 00:56:00.650
wheel and the whole staff can be using it. And

00:56:00.650 --> 00:56:03.090
I mean, you even go you even see like how much

00:56:03.090 --> 00:56:04.889
ground can you cover forward and backward in

00:56:04.889 --> 00:56:07.309
five minutes. And I mean, it's like the workout

00:56:07.309 --> 00:56:09.630
of a lifetime. So I feel like that torque fitness

00:56:09.630 --> 00:56:12.380
tank sled. is very realistic for a firehouse

00:56:12.380 --> 00:56:16.760
because you don't have to mess with the layout.

00:56:17.500 --> 00:56:21.679
It's a very small device that you can keep in

00:56:21.679 --> 00:56:24.480
a corner or something, and then you can use it

00:56:24.480 --> 00:56:26.579
anywhere. You can use it on the street. You can

00:56:26.579 --> 00:56:29.639
use it anywhere. So I do feel like that is going

00:56:29.639 --> 00:56:33.139
to be the one that's more realistic. And it's

00:56:33.139 --> 00:56:35.519
not like it's the cheapest thing ever, but for

00:56:35.519 --> 00:56:39.599
a full -on, you know, maybe for a 12 -year -old

00:56:39.599 --> 00:56:42.460
kid, that's a lot to save up for but for like

00:56:42.460 --> 00:56:44.059
a firehouse it's actually like a pretty affordable

00:56:44.059 --> 00:56:46.599
piece of equipment yeah yeah no i mean you know

00:56:46.599 --> 00:56:47.960
the one i'm talking about yeah with the wheels

00:56:47.960 --> 00:56:50.519
it's over there in the corner yeah like i keep

00:56:50.519 --> 00:56:52.260
one there so that i can demo it to people in

00:56:52.260 --> 00:56:54.719
here if they want to see it yeah no i think that's

00:56:54.719 --> 00:56:56.920
fantastic because normally firehouses will have

00:56:56.920 --> 00:56:58.780
you know like we call an apron front and back

00:56:58.780 --> 00:57:01.179
so you'll have concrete so a regular slab works

00:57:01.179 --> 00:57:04.219
well but then you take you know fdmy They might

00:57:04.219 --> 00:57:06.920
not be able to drag a sled up and down the sidewalks

00:57:06.920 --> 00:57:08.599
there. Yeah, it kind of depends on the surface

00:57:08.599 --> 00:57:11.199
with a regular sled. Yeah, exactly. That's why

00:57:11.199 --> 00:57:12.920
you felt how smooth it is in here on the turf.

00:57:13.260 --> 00:57:16.500
So a metal sled on turf is my favorite. But my

00:57:16.500 --> 00:57:18.519
second favorite is one of those tank sleds on

00:57:18.519 --> 00:57:21.860
really any surface. Yeah. Now talk to me about

00:57:21.860 --> 00:57:24.800
shoulders. So your Zero program, which I've been

00:57:24.800 --> 00:57:27.559
doing for, I think, 10 weeks now, 8, 10 weeks.

00:57:28.800 --> 00:57:31.320
There's the rings on. you know, alternating days

00:57:31.320 --> 00:57:33.659
and you're getting the ring rows and the ring

00:57:33.659 --> 00:57:36.360
pushups all the way, like full, full range of

00:57:36.360 --> 00:57:39.480
motion again. So, um, you know, portal, that's

00:57:39.480 --> 00:57:40.960
one of the movement guys I had on, I haven't

00:57:40.960 --> 00:57:44.099
had on, I did his program. Um, he talks about

00:57:44.099 --> 00:57:47.219
the, um, the deep squat holding that for 30 minutes

00:57:47.219 --> 00:57:49.820
cumulatively over a day and then hanging for

00:57:49.820 --> 00:57:52.519
five minutes. Wow. So talk to me about the shoulder

00:57:52.519 --> 00:57:55.079
health element of what you do. Um, I keep it

00:57:55.079 --> 00:57:59.039
pretty similar to the, how we address the knees.

00:57:59.639 --> 00:58:03.039
and the idea is to restore a full range of motion

00:58:03.039 --> 00:58:05.000
push -up, which someone could do like on their

00:58:05.000 --> 00:58:07.900
knees. You can also, like if you have dumbbells,

00:58:07.900 --> 00:58:10.400
you can lay back on a bench, and instead of just

00:58:10.400 --> 00:58:14.139
having an overhand grip, like if you were in

00:58:14.139 --> 00:58:15.460
a fight and you were going to throw a punch,

00:58:15.619 --> 00:58:17.920
you wouldn't just be standing there with an overhand

00:58:17.920 --> 00:58:19.639
grip. You would actually reach your arms back

00:58:19.639 --> 00:58:23.079
with more of a neutral grip. So that's how we

00:58:23.079 --> 00:58:25.539
press dumbbells. So we put the bench to an incline,

00:58:25.539 --> 00:58:27.840
and we hold the dumbbells with a neutral grip.

00:58:28.170 --> 00:58:30.230
That way the dumbbell doesn't run into the shoulder.

00:58:30.369 --> 00:58:32.570
So with a normal grip, the dumbbell will stop

00:58:32.570 --> 00:58:35.409
short and it'll hit the chest. But if you rotate

00:58:35.409 --> 00:58:38.190
your grip more parallel than the dumbbell, you

00:58:38.190 --> 00:58:40.130
can get your full range of motion. So we try

00:58:40.130 --> 00:58:43.650
to restore a full range of motion in the shoulder

00:58:43.650 --> 00:58:46.389
while then strengthening everything back behind

00:58:46.389 --> 00:58:50.389
that shoulder, which is weak for almost all humans.

00:58:51.909 --> 00:58:53.989
So in zero, we're really just trying to restore

00:58:53.989 --> 00:58:57.639
full range of motion, push up with... excellent

00:58:57.639 --> 00:59:00.500
control on a rowing motion for back behind the

00:59:00.500 --> 00:59:02.860
shoulders. But once it gets into the actual like

00:59:02.860 --> 00:59:06.800
program with weights and equipment, we do, uh,

00:59:07.059 --> 00:59:09.420
like tomorrow we have four different like shoulder

00:59:09.420 --> 00:59:12.519
elbow exercises. Yesterday, Tuesday, we trained

00:59:12.519 --> 00:59:15.739
upper body. We'd even trained the neck, the grip.

00:59:15.960 --> 00:59:19.159
So we're just trying to work out, uh, when it

00:59:19.159 --> 00:59:20.320
comes to the shoulders, we're trying to work

00:59:20.320 --> 00:59:21.860
out all those weak links and we're trying to

00:59:21.860 --> 00:59:23.519
restore full range of motion. That's kind of

00:59:23.519 --> 00:59:27.409
my entire program is basically, um, trying to

00:59:27.409 --> 00:59:31.869
correct modern human deficiencies if i just had

00:59:31.869 --> 00:59:33.670
to summarize my entire program in a sentence

00:59:33.670 --> 00:59:38.230
correcting the most common modern human deficiencies

00:59:38.230 --> 00:59:41.829
so it's interesting i had um dr rocket on who

00:59:41.829 --> 00:59:45.710
is the uh orthopedic surgeon for crossfit so

00:59:45.710 --> 00:59:47.150
he's the one that's actually on staff on the

00:59:47.150 --> 00:59:50.670
games um super nice guy super down to earth And

00:59:50.670 --> 00:59:53.389
he was talking about the different kind of injuries.

00:59:53.429 --> 00:59:55.690
And he said in CrossFit, they don't see as many

00:59:55.690 --> 00:59:58.349
knee injuries. It's more shoulder, especially,

00:59:58.389 --> 01:00:01.150
I think, from all the kipping and the explosive

01:00:01.150 --> 01:00:05.909
Olympic barbell work. But he said more like the

01:00:05.909 --> 01:00:08.710
kind of basketball, hockey, when you have those

01:00:08.710 --> 01:00:11.829
extreme changes in direction and deceleration,

01:00:11.969 --> 01:00:15.429
acceleration. So the shoulder health obviously

01:00:15.429 --> 01:00:17.050
is a big thing for a lot of the CrossFitters

01:00:17.050 --> 01:00:20.389
out there. Being okay, I think it's the foundation

01:00:20.389 --> 01:00:23.710
training, understanding ring rows and the strict

01:00:23.710 --> 01:00:26.590
posterior work that's helped me a little bit.

01:00:26.809 --> 01:00:30.469
But when you have steering wheels, computer keyboards,

01:00:30.829 --> 01:00:33.750
cell phones, you just see that kind of forward

01:00:33.750 --> 01:00:35.750
shoulder carriage that so many people have now.

01:00:35.949 --> 01:00:38.269
That's modern life. So I feel like we have to

01:00:38.269 --> 01:00:41.710
do something to unwind that. And in CrossFit,

01:00:41.730 --> 01:00:45.349
it would make sense because CrossFit does use

01:00:45.349 --> 01:00:47.090
more of a full range of motion with the knees.

01:00:47.760 --> 01:00:50.099
but with the shoulders doesn't use as much of

01:00:50.099 --> 01:00:53.800
a full like it's still more um in those mid ranges

01:00:53.800 --> 01:00:55.519
of motion whereas the knees you get more of a

01:00:55.519 --> 01:00:57.960
full range of motion and i think for i think

01:00:57.960 --> 01:00:59.880
that's probably the case for like really elite

01:00:59.880 --> 01:01:03.440
crossfitters but i feel like the the day -to

01:01:03.440 --> 01:01:05.800
-day crossfitters if they're not coming into

01:01:05.800 --> 01:01:09.900
it with pretty solid knees then it can quickly

01:01:09.900 --> 01:01:13.559
bounce out like that you said that's the orthopedic

01:01:13.559 --> 01:01:15.739
doctor like for crossfit so he's probably working

01:01:15.739 --> 01:01:18.599
with a lot of elite yes crossfitters if he were

01:01:18.599 --> 01:01:22.360
to interview a bunch of people who had quit crossfit

01:01:22.360 --> 01:01:24.000
in the first month or two it's often because

01:01:24.000 --> 01:01:28.139
their knees can't handle those positions so my

01:01:28.139 --> 01:01:31.860
passion is not only is my passion not rivaling

01:01:31.860 --> 01:01:33.719
crossfit my passion is actually just getting

01:01:33.719 --> 01:01:38.280
atg into crossfit gyms so a number of these of

01:01:38.280 --> 01:01:42.250
the 600 plus atg coaches uh the highest background

01:01:42.250 --> 01:01:44.329
of them is crossfit because what they're seeing

01:01:44.329 --> 01:01:46.570
is let's say they have their crossfit schedule

01:01:46.570 --> 01:01:48.829
at their gym they're seeing they can deliver

01:01:48.829 --> 01:01:51.730
some atg classes not mess with their crossfit

01:01:51.730 --> 01:01:54.369
classes but deliver some atg classes now they

01:01:54.369 --> 01:01:55.949
can train more of the people in the community

01:01:55.949 --> 01:01:58.769
because any age can do it and they can take people

01:01:58.769 --> 01:02:01.269
who maybe are like boy i'd like i'd like to do

01:02:01.269 --> 01:02:03.530
crossfit four days a week but my body can't handle

01:02:03.530 --> 01:02:06.190
it now they can do two days crossfit two days

01:02:06.190 --> 01:02:09.289
atg so i feel that's where the I feel the greatest

01:02:09.289 --> 01:02:12.289
potential for ATG is actually just being used

01:02:12.289 --> 01:02:15.090
to assist CrossFit gyms. CrossFit already made

01:02:15.090 --> 01:02:17.449
it. CrossFit is everywhere. Everywhere I look

01:02:17.449 --> 01:02:22.010
up from Costa Rica to Korea has CrossFit gyms.

01:02:22.329 --> 01:02:25.030
So CrossFit made it and it's there and the gym

01:02:25.030 --> 01:02:27.690
has a fairly open setup. And in our system, like

01:02:27.690 --> 01:02:30.449
where's the machines? Like we don't use, we use

01:02:30.449 --> 01:02:35.969
very basic equipment, not like big gym machinery.

01:02:36.449 --> 01:02:40.679
So. to me, it seems like a really smooth transition.

01:02:40.860 --> 01:02:42.500
A lot of these CrossFit coaches are just getting

01:02:42.500 --> 01:02:45.119
amazing results and their gym is becoming a lot

01:02:45.119 --> 01:02:46.920
more profitable because you already have all

01:02:46.920 --> 01:02:49.860
the gym costs. Now you deliver your CrossFit

01:02:49.860 --> 01:02:52.440
classes. Now if you can throw on a few more classes

01:02:52.440 --> 01:02:54.599
and reach different people in your community

01:02:54.599 --> 01:02:57.840
or retain members who might otherwise have to

01:02:57.840 --> 01:03:01.579
cancel because of injuries, I think it's there.

01:03:02.000 --> 01:03:05.039
I think ATG is probably there to support CrossFit

01:03:05.039 --> 01:03:07.809
perhaps more than anything else. Well, it's been

01:03:07.809 --> 01:03:10.070
interesting because I got into CrossFit in 06.

01:03:10.829 --> 01:03:13.769
And so I've seen, you know, like 15, 16 years

01:03:13.769 --> 01:03:17.590
worth of, you know, ups and downs. And definitely

01:03:17.590 --> 01:03:19.710
when the game started to become more popular,

01:03:19.849 --> 01:03:24.630
I saw the injuries go up because people weren't

01:03:24.630 --> 01:03:26.309
leaving their egos at the door. You know, it

01:03:26.309 --> 01:03:29.210
was I want to be the next Rich Froning or whoever.

01:03:30.250 --> 01:03:32.210
People learning butterfly pull -ups before they

01:03:32.210 --> 01:03:34.530
can even do strict. And so, you know, as a coach,

01:03:34.570 --> 01:03:37.280
I could see that. Luckily, it's... I think it's

01:03:37.280 --> 01:03:39.780
one completely other way now where understanding

01:03:39.780 --> 01:03:43.340
of physiology and accessory work and mobility

01:03:43.340 --> 01:03:45.900
has really been prioritized now, which is beautiful.

01:03:46.099 --> 01:03:50.940
So tools like ATG, I think are, you know, there's

01:03:50.940 --> 01:03:52.719
no better time to have them than now when that

01:03:52.719 --> 01:03:55.699
community is finally understanding, you know,

01:03:55.719 --> 01:03:58.480
let's create that balance in the body and let's

01:03:58.480 --> 01:04:00.400
take the weight off the barbell and let's get

01:04:00.400 --> 01:04:02.900
you moving full range of motion without pain.

01:04:03.079 --> 01:04:05.219
And then we can start building you back up again.

01:04:05.340 --> 01:04:08.510
Yep. yeah i think it's wonderful i'm really excited

01:04:08.510 --> 01:04:11.869
for that future with crossfit so talk to me about

01:04:11.869 --> 01:04:15.510
um the older population i know that your mom

01:04:15.510 --> 01:04:18.010
is kind of like the the poster child for atg

01:04:18.010 --> 01:04:21.110
for the senior community i mean just how i was

01:04:21.110 --> 01:04:23.210
trying to get myself where i could play basketball

01:04:23.210 --> 01:04:26.989
with my parents i was trying to get a system

01:04:26.989 --> 01:04:29.269
that they actually wanted to show up and do the

01:04:29.269 --> 01:04:32.170
workouts so a lot of trainers have noted that

01:04:32.170 --> 01:04:34.630
their own parents are the toughest clients to

01:04:34.630 --> 01:04:38.590
get them to train and it's pretty simple regressions

01:04:38.590 --> 01:04:42.050
and also the sled the sled is my parents favorite

01:04:42.050 --> 01:04:43.969
tool both of them and now i've been able to use

01:04:43.969 --> 01:04:46.929
it uh when i was last in la my neighbor is 82

01:04:46.929 --> 01:04:49.889
and he loved the sled so like to me that's the

01:04:49.889 --> 01:04:52.750
coolest thing that the sled is my number one

01:04:52.750 --> 01:04:54.989
tool that makes me able to go out and dunk a

01:04:54.989 --> 01:04:57.230
basketball on the weekend and feel like a million

01:04:57.230 --> 01:04:59.170
bucks but it's also for my 82 year old neighbor

01:04:59.170 --> 01:05:01.610
with no exercise experience he's able to do the

01:05:01.610 --> 01:05:03.730
forward and the backward with the sled and get

01:05:03.730 --> 01:05:06.940
an incredible workout so My parents, it really

01:05:06.940 --> 01:05:09.320
just accelerated that learning process to realize

01:05:09.320 --> 01:05:12.019
like, wow, the sled is the key for the older

01:05:12.019 --> 01:05:14.519
generation. And from there, it increases the

01:05:14.519 --> 01:05:17.619
circulation so that you can even whatever else

01:05:17.619 --> 01:05:20.420
you're trying to accomplish in the program, you

01:05:20.420 --> 01:05:23.579
can have more success with it. Well, we did the

01:05:23.579 --> 01:05:26.440
sled today. We did the push and the pull. And

01:05:26.440 --> 01:05:29.019
I heard you talk about the relationship between.

01:05:29.820 --> 01:05:32.260
being able to walk backwards as a senior and

01:05:32.260 --> 01:05:36.300
falling. Now, in my community, we respond to

01:05:36.300 --> 01:05:39.440
the broken pelvises and hips. And from the ex

01:05:39.440 --> 01:05:41.320
-phys side, the medical side, you learn that

01:05:41.320 --> 01:05:44.260
a lot of people that have that injury often don't

01:05:44.260 --> 01:05:46.159
ever recover. It's kind of like the one nail

01:05:46.159 --> 01:05:48.940
in the coffin kind of thing. So talk to me about

01:05:48.940 --> 01:05:51.539
that relationship as a kind of diagnostic tool.

01:05:51.639 --> 01:05:55.099
And again, I don't know if it's anecdotally,

01:05:55.159 --> 01:05:58.579
some of the people that were very... um fragile

01:05:58.579 --> 01:06:01.179
that you've seen build back up through this training

01:06:01.179 --> 01:06:06.059
yeah so it's a direct correlation and a direct

01:06:06.059 --> 01:06:09.039
training process of dragging the sled backward

01:06:09.039 --> 01:06:11.920
so that you can go downstairs so when you go

01:06:11.920 --> 01:06:14.300
downstairs every single step is knee over toe

01:06:14.300 --> 01:06:17.019
knee over toe knee over toe so if you were to

01:06:17.019 --> 01:06:19.340
imagine going downstairs and if you film that

01:06:19.340 --> 01:06:22.480
and then if you put that on rewind You're doing

01:06:22.480 --> 01:06:24.719
the exact same motion when you drag a sled backwards.

01:06:24.940 --> 01:06:27.400
So when you're dragging a sled backward, you're

01:06:27.400 --> 01:06:29.980
preparing yourself to go downhill. You're preparing

01:06:29.980 --> 01:06:32.579
yourself to go downstairs. So the stronger you

01:06:32.579 --> 01:06:34.920
get at that, the easier those activities become.

01:06:35.300 --> 01:06:37.599
But with the sled, it's not like an exercise

01:06:37.599 --> 01:06:39.179
where you have weights on your back and where

01:06:39.179 --> 01:06:41.980
you have that potentially injurious factor. Meaning

01:06:41.980 --> 01:06:45.179
if I put a thousand pounds on a sled and I asked

01:06:45.179 --> 01:06:50.039
my mom to drag it backwards, most likely it just

01:06:50.039 --> 01:06:52.550
wouldn't move. Like most likely she'd be fine.

01:06:52.570 --> 01:06:54.269
She'd just be standing there and it's leaning.

01:06:54.449 --> 01:06:56.329
She's just hooked up to a thousand pounds. She'd

01:06:56.329 --> 01:06:59.869
just be leaning. So, okay. If she leaned backward

01:06:59.869 --> 01:07:02.269
against a thousand pounds, she'd just be standing

01:07:02.269 --> 01:07:04.530
there. But if I put a thousand pounds on a bar

01:07:04.530 --> 01:07:07.530
and put it on her shoulders, it would crush her

01:07:07.530 --> 01:07:09.829
body. So there's this fundamental difference

01:07:09.829 --> 01:07:13.329
between using a sled as the resistance versus

01:07:13.329 --> 01:07:15.909
using free weights on top of your body as the

01:07:15.909 --> 01:07:19.170
resistance. So we do use free weight exercises.

01:07:19.800 --> 01:07:25.920
But those are specific things and we don't overdo

01:07:25.920 --> 01:07:28.800
them. Whereas the sled we found we can do daily.

01:07:28.880 --> 01:07:32.900
We can really use the sled more often to get

01:07:32.900 --> 01:07:35.739
through those shit zones and get restored and

01:07:35.739 --> 01:07:37.920
get into shape and get fit and get stronger.

01:07:38.199 --> 01:07:42.099
So when we go forward with the sled, it's wonderful

01:07:42.099 --> 01:07:46.239
for the toes and for the glutes. And a lot of

01:07:46.239 --> 01:07:48.539
us lose from all the sitting. We lose that quote

01:07:48.539 --> 01:07:50.900
unquote like. you know, connection or activation

01:07:50.900 --> 01:07:53.460
to the glutes. So when you go forward, the sled

01:07:53.460 --> 01:07:56.400
is unbelievable for opening up the feet, getting

01:07:56.400 --> 01:07:59.780
rid of foot pain, Achilles pain, and getting

01:07:59.780 --> 01:08:02.039
the glutes to wake up. And then when you go backward,

01:08:02.119 --> 01:08:04.420
it's unbelievable for your knee health. And it's

01:08:04.420 --> 01:08:08.239
something that an older person can do. And yes,

01:08:08.300 --> 01:08:10.300
if they've found studies correlating your ability

01:08:10.300 --> 01:08:12.920
to walk backward with not falling down the stairs,

01:08:13.079 --> 01:08:15.940
well then walking backward and getting stronger

01:08:15.940 --> 01:08:18.369
at that motion. It's almost safer because the

01:08:18.369 --> 01:08:21.069
sled like slows you down and allows you to really

01:08:21.069 --> 01:08:23.270
train the strength of that quality. So I think

01:08:23.270 --> 01:08:26.409
if they ever tested that, it would be like straight

01:08:26.409 --> 01:08:29.630
up miraculous. Now, speaking of foot health for

01:08:29.630 --> 01:08:31.449
a second, you're wearing Xero shoes. I had the

01:08:31.449 --> 01:08:33.729
founder, Stephen Session on here. I'm a huge

01:08:33.729 --> 01:08:36.470
barefoot fan. I mean, I get ridiculed on my gym

01:08:36.470 --> 01:08:38.449
all the time. I probably got some of the ugliest

01:08:38.449 --> 01:08:41.090
feet on the planet, but it just makes perfect

01:08:41.090 --> 01:08:43.390
sense to me. Again, if you reverse engineer so

01:08:43.390 --> 01:08:46.189
many issues. We didn't have shoes. And even if

01:08:46.189 --> 01:08:47.970
we, you know, as we did in culture, it was a

01:08:47.970 --> 01:08:50.770
very thin kind of layer just to stop, you know,

01:08:50.789 --> 01:08:53.390
rocks and things from penetrating the skin. So

01:08:53.390 --> 01:08:56.590
kind of what's your philosophy on barefoot and

01:08:56.590 --> 01:08:58.670
or minimalist shoes when it comes to your training?

01:09:00.050 --> 01:09:03.550
My viewpoint on the barefoot shoe is trying to

01:09:03.550 --> 01:09:05.350
restore what's natural. But let's look at what's

01:09:05.350 --> 01:09:09.390
natural. It wouldn't be natural to wear a shoe,

01:09:09.529 --> 01:09:12.649
a Nike Air that has this giant heel and then

01:09:12.649 --> 01:09:16.069
this narrow toe box. jamming up our foot, putting

01:09:16.069 --> 01:09:18.789
pressure on our knees. That wouldn't be natural.

01:09:18.989 --> 01:09:22.130
I also don't think it'd be natural to be walking

01:09:22.130 --> 01:09:26.409
on concrete all day. So natural life, I think

01:09:26.409 --> 01:09:28.489
is actually quite aggressive for the barefoot

01:09:28.489 --> 01:09:31.569
shoes. So I wear barefoot shoes all the time.

01:09:31.670 --> 01:09:33.829
I even play basketball in barefoot shoes, but

01:09:33.829 --> 01:09:36.789
I wouldn't advise someone to just jump into that

01:09:36.789 --> 01:09:40.590
transition. Now you're here in the gym and we're

01:09:40.590 --> 01:09:44.859
on turf. So this is a softer material. much more

01:09:44.859 --> 01:09:46.500
like what you would experience if you're out

01:09:46.500 --> 01:09:50.439
in the wild, softer mud, grass, sand, that's

01:09:50.439 --> 01:09:53.539
more natural for the foot. So yeah, if you were

01:09:53.539 --> 01:09:56.659
just barefoot on like sand or grass or mud, that

01:09:56.659 --> 01:10:00.760
would be the most natural. So I like people to

01:10:00.760 --> 01:10:05.140
wear barefoot inspired shoes when they do their

01:10:05.140 --> 01:10:08.560
sled work. So barefoot inspired shoe with sled

01:10:08.560 --> 01:10:10.840
work is now really allowing your foot to move

01:10:10.840 --> 01:10:15.850
and strengthen. outside of that ideally if your

01:10:15.850 --> 01:10:18.130
shoe doesn't have a narrow toe box because it's

01:10:18.130 --> 01:10:20.510
if you think about like if you look at your hand

01:10:20.510 --> 01:10:22.710
and if you put all your fingers together and

01:10:22.710 --> 01:10:24.529
then if you spread your fingers apart like which

01:10:24.529 --> 01:10:26.170
one's gonna have better balance obviously if

01:10:26.170 --> 01:10:28.010
you spread your fingers apart you're gonna have

01:10:28.010 --> 01:10:30.970
better balance and control and so with the foot

01:10:30.970 --> 01:10:33.569
as the foot gets unnaturally jammed together

01:10:33.569 --> 01:10:36.770
you're now able to like handle less of the forces

01:10:36.770 --> 01:10:39.069
of life through your feet your feet are full

01:10:39.069 --> 01:10:41.920
of muscles that should be strong and mobile So

01:10:41.920 --> 01:10:44.840
the less capable the feet, that force has to

01:10:44.840 --> 01:10:46.420
go somewhere. So it starts coming up through

01:10:46.420 --> 01:10:47.699
the shins. You're probably more likely to have

01:10:47.699 --> 01:10:50.680
shin splints, more likely to have patellar tendonitis.

01:10:51.159 --> 01:10:54.520
So kind of like with the rest, what am I trying

01:10:54.520 --> 01:10:57.460
to do? I'm just trying to restore what's natural.

01:10:57.680 --> 01:11:00.279
So unfortunately, we're in that kind of limbo

01:11:00.279 --> 01:11:03.539
where the world outside of us is concrete. So

01:11:03.539 --> 01:11:06.579
concrete everywhere is not natural, but Nike

01:11:06.579 --> 01:11:09.800
air cushions aren't natural. I've got to the

01:11:09.800 --> 01:11:11.479
point where I can wear barefoot shoes all day,

01:11:11.579 --> 01:11:14.340
but maybe for someone else, maybe wear whatever

01:11:14.340 --> 01:11:16.520
the most like comfortable shoe is you can find

01:11:16.520 --> 01:11:19.340
that has a wide toe box. And then when you go

01:11:19.340 --> 01:11:22.479
do your exercise sessions, that's the time you

01:11:22.479 --> 01:11:24.319
really have a lot of potency for strength through

01:11:24.319 --> 01:11:26.979
your feet. And so perhaps for your exercise sessions,

01:11:27.060 --> 01:11:29.800
wear like a barefoot inspired shoe. Beautiful.

01:11:29.880 --> 01:11:31.539
Yeah, I love it. I mean, that's a very valid

01:11:31.539 --> 01:11:34.600
point and concrete. My little boy's on the track

01:11:34.600 --> 01:11:36.619
team and I went and bought him some running shoes

01:11:36.619 --> 01:11:38.949
and I love the minimalist ones. but he's running

01:11:38.949 --> 01:11:42.149
multiple miles a day on concrete. So I think

01:11:42.149 --> 01:11:44.229
there has to be natural. No. So you have to have

01:11:44.229 --> 01:11:45.850
a little bit more cushion just to absorb. Right.

01:11:45.970 --> 01:11:49.229
That's very tricky because yeah, you're wanting

01:11:49.229 --> 01:11:51.430
him to be natural, but the concrete is not natural

01:11:51.430 --> 01:11:54.130
for those miles. If he was running, in fact,

01:11:54.130 --> 01:11:58.810
um, like if you wanted to restore quote unquote

01:11:58.810 --> 01:12:02.760
running form, uh like if you took your son and

01:12:02.760 --> 01:12:05.359
you had him uh go to a field and take his shoes

01:12:05.359 --> 01:12:08.140
off and just run he'd probably have just majestic

01:12:08.140 --> 01:12:12.479
form yeah like that most people can restore their

01:12:12.479 --> 01:12:14.260
ability to run with the sled and most people

01:12:14.260 --> 01:12:19.420
can restore fair running form just by running

01:12:19.420 --> 01:12:23.239
barefoot in grass absolutely well i'm sure people

01:12:23.239 --> 01:12:26.060
are fascinated to learn about atg kind of what

01:12:26.060 --> 01:12:28.520
what the week would look like if they subscribed

01:12:28.520 --> 01:12:31.399
and then where they can find it yeah thank you

01:12:31.399 --> 01:12:34.640
very much for that um so we currently train i

01:12:34.640 --> 01:12:36.659
update the workouts every saturday for the week

01:12:36.659 --> 01:12:40.180
ahead so i'm constantly involved in the process

01:12:40.180 --> 01:12:43.060
this week i set up the workouts for monday through

01:12:43.060 --> 01:12:46.420
friday we went we're doing our legs monday thursday

01:12:46.420 --> 01:12:49.460
upper body tuesday or sorry legs legs actually

01:12:49.460 --> 01:12:52.119
i set up for monday friday this week upper body

01:12:52.119 --> 01:12:54.140
tuesday and thursday and wednesday mobility so

01:12:54.140 --> 01:12:56.300
today we're working on mobility stuff Tomorrow,

01:12:56.380 --> 01:12:58.180
we'll actually work on more upper body mobility

01:12:58.180 --> 01:13:01.020
stuff. So I'm just trying to spread out a five

01:13:01.020 --> 01:13:03.579
-day schedule to cover everything from the toes

01:13:03.579 --> 01:13:05.779
to the wrist to the neck to the spine to the

01:13:05.779 --> 01:13:09.760
hips. And that's atgonlinecoaching .com. And

01:13:09.760 --> 01:13:12.939
someone can do a two -day -a -week gentle version

01:13:12.939 --> 01:13:16.439
of that. I have a book called ATG for Life. That

01:13:16.439 --> 01:13:20.380
was intended for longevity as a very confrontable

01:13:20.380 --> 01:13:23.159
starting program twice a week. And then you've

01:13:23.159 --> 01:13:26.239
also seen... I have a book called Knee Ability

01:13:26.239 --> 01:13:29.260
Zero. So I only have two books. One of them is

01:13:29.260 --> 01:13:33.899
no equipment at all, just body weight to rebuild

01:13:33.899 --> 01:13:35.720
from the ground up. The other one is more like

01:13:35.720 --> 01:13:38.619
a taste of my full program with two really gentle

01:13:38.619 --> 01:13:42.199
full body sessions. So I'm trying to just trying

01:13:42.199 --> 01:13:47.020
to provide solutions for anyone. i love using

01:13:47.020 --> 01:13:48.720
the app and being able to see the workouts i

01:13:48.720 --> 01:13:51.260
love working out five days a week i love you

01:13:51.260 --> 01:13:53.319
know trying to get stronger but in a way that

01:13:53.319 --> 01:13:56.000
makes me that is going to make my body last a

01:13:56.000 --> 01:13:58.500
long time but not everyone wants to do that someone

01:13:58.500 --> 01:14:00.039
might want to just do some body weight stuff

01:14:00.039 --> 01:14:01.720
someone might want to just do it two day a week

01:14:01.720 --> 01:14:05.420
so all covered now with that it's not just an

01:14:05.420 --> 01:14:07.800
app giving workouts you have the ability to upload

01:14:07.800 --> 01:14:10.079
videos of yourself and get critiques so expand

01:14:10.079 --> 01:14:12.710
on that Well, when I made it, I didn't want to

01:14:12.710 --> 01:14:14.670
go online because I didn't like the idea of someone

01:14:14.670 --> 01:14:17.029
trying to do this stuff on their own. So the

01:14:17.029 --> 01:14:20.630
whole thing that I that I fine tuned was being

01:14:20.630 --> 01:14:22.529
able to have a business model where someone can

01:14:22.529 --> 01:14:25.289
send in video of themselves on any of the exercises,

01:14:25.529 --> 01:14:28.149
any session, along with any questions and be

01:14:28.149 --> 01:14:31.170
answered rapidly. So that's what I've always

01:14:31.170 --> 01:14:34.090
done since day one. And as we've grown, I'm just

01:14:34.090 --> 01:14:36.329
obsessive about the quality of the coaching,

01:14:36.430 --> 01:14:42.760
the response time. So for me. good programs were

01:14:42.760 --> 01:14:47.359
like having a map like but i didn't get near

01:14:47.359 --> 01:14:49.579
the results until i actually went and met charles

01:14:49.579 --> 01:14:52.380
poliquin and he actually looked at my form and

01:14:52.380 --> 01:14:55.380
i actually got to like see how form review works

01:14:55.380 --> 01:14:59.460
and really understand the the value of coaching

01:14:59.460 --> 01:15:01.619
form of being able to have a question answered

01:15:01.619 --> 01:15:03.960
so i feel like i feel like where someone can

01:15:03.960 --> 01:15:06.079
get on their own when they're new to a subject

01:15:06.079 --> 01:15:08.220
or even if they've been in a subject a while

01:15:08.220 --> 01:15:11.890
but having a having a coaching process, being

01:15:11.890 --> 01:15:14.649
able to get questions answered. That's, I feel

01:15:14.649 --> 01:15:16.729
like it's exponentially valuable, but there's

01:15:16.729 --> 01:15:18.569
no long -term contract. So someone could do it.

01:15:18.829 --> 01:15:20.590
Someone could literally just do a month and that'd

01:15:20.590 --> 01:15:22.789
be totally fine with us. Like we don't, it's,

01:15:22.789 --> 01:15:25.890
it's whatever, however long of the journey you

01:15:25.890 --> 01:15:28.149
want to be with ATG. That's our goal is to make

01:15:28.149 --> 01:15:29.949
it something that, that someone could afford

01:15:29.949 --> 01:15:33.029
because how much would it cost someone to get

01:15:33.029 --> 01:15:35.390
in -person training for this? Not everyone would

01:15:35.390 --> 01:15:37.750
be able to afford that. So I made my whole business

01:15:37.750 --> 01:15:40.220
model like, What would I have been able to afford

01:15:40.220 --> 01:15:43.880
back when I was a kid with totally terrible knees?

01:15:44.140 --> 01:15:45.899
So the business is kind of what I would have

01:15:45.899 --> 01:15:48.779
needed. Now you have the Xero program as well,

01:15:48.819 --> 01:15:52.260
which is, as you said, all body weight. I just

01:15:52.260 --> 01:15:53.520
went on a cruise. I'm actually about to go on

01:15:53.520 --> 01:15:55.439
another one next week. Oh, wow. And so obviously

01:15:55.439 --> 01:15:58.119
nowhere to drag a sled. Yeah. But they have treadmills.

01:15:58.380 --> 01:16:00.840
Oh, yeah. So talk to me about that. You're either

01:16:00.840 --> 01:16:02.880
in a hotel or you're somewhere where you can't

01:16:02.880 --> 01:16:06.100
access a sled. I mean, I love getting on the

01:16:06.100 --> 01:16:09.710
treadmill, not turning it on. turning around

01:16:09.710 --> 01:16:13.210
and then spinning the wheel backward because

01:16:13.210 --> 01:16:15.350
they often have some internal resistance but

01:16:15.350 --> 01:16:18.090
i have to immediately say not all gym owners

01:16:18.090 --> 01:16:21.829
appreciate that so uh i've never had a problem

01:16:21.829 --> 01:16:24.350
with it um but some gym owners have said it can

01:16:24.350 --> 01:16:27.029
break the treadmill but i'm kind of stuck in

01:16:27.029 --> 01:16:29.210
that limbo of like treadmills are like three

01:16:29.210 --> 01:16:32.090
four five thousand dollars sleds are don't come

01:16:32.090 --> 01:16:35.090
near that so i feel like there needs to be somewhat

01:16:35.090 --> 01:16:38.479
of a cultural shift to the treadmill is The treadmill

01:16:38.479 --> 01:16:41.479
is doing too much of the job for the human. So

01:16:41.479 --> 01:16:43.420
we wind up with all kinds of weaknesses because

01:16:43.420 --> 01:16:46.140
we're not having to use muscles that we should

01:16:46.140 --> 01:16:49.020
have to use to move the treadmill. And so with

01:16:49.020 --> 01:16:51.420
the sled, it really puts it back on the human.

01:16:51.479 --> 01:16:53.659
You get so much more out of a sled than a treadmill.

01:16:53.840 --> 01:16:57.960
So when in doubt, I use that treadmill because

01:16:57.960 --> 01:17:01.239
I'm okay with breaking the machine. I'll choose

01:17:01.239 --> 01:17:03.800
the human over the machine. But I do have to

01:17:03.800 --> 01:17:06.279
tell people, like, I'm not advising someone.

01:17:08.619 --> 01:17:10.380
yeah like you should be aware and you should

01:17:10.380 --> 01:17:13.060
be respectful of you know what the rules are

01:17:13.060 --> 01:17:16.039
of that gym some some gym owners do it themselves

01:17:16.039 --> 01:17:18.579
so it's it's really going to depend on the gym

01:17:18.579 --> 01:17:20.239
owner whether they'll let you use the treadmill

01:17:20.239 --> 01:17:22.199
turned off and then spinning the wheel backward

01:17:22.199 --> 01:17:24.899
yeah i know i got some funny looks but yeah it

01:17:24.899 --> 01:17:28.380
worked yeah all right well i want to switch some

01:17:28.380 --> 01:17:30.039
closing questions so i can be mindful of your

01:17:30.039 --> 01:17:32.600
time you talked about your two books are there

01:17:32.600 --> 01:17:34.800
any books that you love to recommend to people

01:17:34.800 --> 01:17:36.840
it could be related to our discussion today or

01:17:36.840 --> 01:17:40.550
completely unrelated I mean, I really enjoyed

01:17:40.550 --> 01:17:45.189
all of Charles Poliquin's books. I'm sorry I

01:17:45.189 --> 01:17:47.970
don't have like a bunch more better recommendations.

01:17:48.409 --> 01:17:50.850
That's a good recommendation. Yeah. So, I mean,

01:17:50.850 --> 01:17:54.189
it kind of varies what the prices are and where

01:17:54.189 --> 01:17:57.550
they're selling. There's even one that he wrote

01:17:57.550 --> 01:18:00.630
on strongman training. And so I don't use all

01:18:00.630 --> 01:18:02.529
that stuff. I just use the sled because it's

01:18:02.529 --> 01:18:05.390
so gentle. So the sled is the gentlest, but he

01:18:05.390 --> 01:18:08.029
actually has direct quotes in there. about the

01:18:08.029 --> 01:18:10.350
sled he says that if he was on a deserted island

01:18:10.350 --> 01:18:13.369
and he could only do one thing he'd have a sled

01:18:13.369 --> 01:18:17.470
and if you've looked into his work i think he

01:18:17.470 --> 01:18:20.489
had the most detailed and expensive gym setup

01:18:20.489 --> 01:18:24.050
i've ever seen but even to him with the most

01:18:24.050 --> 01:18:26.329
complex and expensive gym setup i've ever seen

01:18:26.329 --> 01:18:29.750
right there in his book on strongman training

01:18:29.750 --> 01:18:32.850
which he includes all the details of the sled

01:18:32.850 --> 01:18:34.930
he says if he could only have one tool it would

01:18:34.930 --> 01:18:38.590
be the sled so I feel like that that's probably

01:18:38.590 --> 01:18:41.369
my number one recommendation. I think for like

01:18:41.369 --> 01:18:43.109
eight bucks or something, you can get like a

01:18:43.109 --> 01:18:46.069
scribbed account and read that book. It's right

01:18:46.069 --> 01:18:48.489
on there. So I think it's called I think it's

01:18:48.489 --> 01:18:50.930
called Applied Strongman Training, I want to

01:18:50.930 --> 01:18:52.930
say. But if you search Charles Poliquin Strongman

01:18:52.930 --> 01:18:55.250
Training, to me, that would be my number one

01:18:55.250 --> 01:18:58.010
recommended book. OK, yeah. And the price is

01:18:58.010 --> 01:18:59.689
a funny thing. When I talk to people and they

01:18:59.689 --> 01:19:01.930
ask about, you know, what what should we get

01:19:01.930 --> 01:19:05.649
for a fire station gym? I get that one. It's

01:19:05.649 --> 01:19:07.470
a thinner book. It's a much more affordable,

01:19:07.510 --> 01:19:09.590
thinner book. So it's not even like an expensive

01:19:09.590 --> 01:19:13.010
book. So I think for a fire station, Charles

01:19:13.010 --> 01:19:16.029
Poliquin's strongman book. Okay. Yeah. But even

01:19:16.029 --> 01:19:18.430
the equipment itself, you know. Oh, yeah. Like

01:19:18.430 --> 01:19:21.229
you said, a treadmill, an elliptical with thousands

01:19:21.229 --> 01:19:22.890
of dollars. Right, right. Start with one of those

01:19:22.890 --> 01:19:26.149
tank sleds from Torque Fitness. Yeah. And sandbags.

01:19:26.170 --> 01:19:29.329
I love sandbags too. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's

01:19:29.329 --> 01:19:31.050
the best thing you could do for a firehouse.

01:19:31.619 --> 01:19:33.180
Beautiful. All right. Well, the next question,

01:19:33.239 --> 01:19:36.180
what about a movie and or documentary that you

01:19:36.180 --> 01:19:39.560
love? It's the wrong timing. I've been over 400

01:19:39.560 --> 01:19:41.619
days. I haven't watched a movie or a TV show

01:19:41.619 --> 01:19:45.140
or Netflix. It's just it's not in my. You're

01:19:45.140 --> 01:19:46.520
going to have to watch The Motivation Factor.

01:19:46.579 --> 01:19:48.399
Yeah, make an exception. So that's my number

01:19:48.399 --> 01:19:50.140
one recommendation. That would be the next thing

01:19:50.140 --> 01:19:52.979
I'm watching. So brilliant. All right. Is there

01:19:52.979 --> 01:19:54.939
a person that you'd recommend to come on this

01:19:54.939 --> 01:19:57.739
podcast as a guest to speak to the first responders,

01:19:57.920 --> 01:19:59.939
military and associated professions of the world?

01:20:00.329 --> 01:20:01.770
I mean, that's a really good question. I mean,

01:20:01.770 --> 01:20:03.789
the first person I'd have to recommend is my

01:20:03.789 --> 01:20:07.409
training partner. Um, his name's Derek Williams.

01:20:07.510 --> 01:20:10.310
He goes by Mr. Infinity on Instagram and he's

01:20:10.310 --> 01:20:14.210
43 and he's my training partner because he comes

01:20:14.210 --> 01:20:16.109
in here and he kicks my ass on the sled every

01:20:16.109 --> 01:20:19.229
day. And he's at 43. He's got himself back dunking

01:20:19.229 --> 01:20:20.970
on the basketball court. So he, when you see

01:20:20.970 --> 01:20:23.369
him play basketball, like he's not 43, like this

01:20:23.369 --> 01:20:26.069
is a body in its twenties. So again, I think

01:20:26.069 --> 01:20:32.989
for, I think for. law enforcement and fire department,

01:20:33.189 --> 01:20:38.390
longevity is so valuable. Health and longevity

01:20:38.390 --> 01:20:42.189
is so valuable that I just feel like anyone who

01:20:42.189 --> 01:20:46.609
can provide insight in that way, I feel like

01:20:46.609 --> 01:20:48.409
that's like the most valuable advice I could

01:20:48.409 --> 01:20:51.529
give. So yeah, he's the person who comes to mind.

01:20:51.649 --> 01:20:54.640
Now, with all the research that you did, This

01:20:54.640 --> 01:20:56.600
audience is a very sleep -deprived audience,

01:20:56.739 --> 01:20:58.880
and I attribute sleep deprivation to a lot of

01:20:58.880 --> 01:21:01.140
the mental ill health, a lot of the weight gain,

01:21:01.279 --> 01:21:03.020
the cancer, the heart disease, you name it, everything.

01:21:04.380 --> 01:21:08.659
The importance of sleep for recovery and growth

01:21:08.659 --> 01:21:11.140
when it comes to the musculoskeletal, have you

01:21:11.140 --> 01:21:15.420
delved into that world at all? Sleep is like

01:21:15.420 --> 01:21:20.939
one of my secret weapons. So I still did well

01:21:20.939 --> 01:21:24.229
in life on low sleep. but i've done much better

01:21:24.229 --> 01:21:28.210
with sleep and that was one of the primary reasons

01:21:28.210 --> 01:21:30.630
i cut out entertainment completely so like i

01:21:30.630 --> 01:21:33.189
it was to start 2021 i decided i just wouldn't

01:21:33.189 --> 01:21:35.090
do any entertainment for the whole year no sports

01:21:35.090 --> 01:21:38.250
games movies netflix tv shows nothing and it's

01:21:38.250 --> 01:21:41.409
because now i fall asleep super early so i'm

01:21:41.409 --> 01:21:45.770
this crazy guy who goes to sleep at 9 30 and

01:21:45.770 --> 01:21:49.010
i never could have imagined i would do that because

01:21:49.010 --> 01:21:51.109
earlier in my 20s you're talking at least midnight

01:21:51.109 --> 01:21:56.569
seemed Midnight seemed early. So by cutting that

01:21:56.569 --> 01:21:59.489
stuff out and going to sleep at like 930, you're

01:21:59.489 --> 01:22:01.489
talking I'm getting eight plus hours of sleep

01:22:01.489 --> 01:22:05.890
a night. That's like my secret weapon. For me,

01:22:05.930 --> 01:22:08.390
I did it more for the mental reasons of being

01:22:08.390 --> 01:22:11.470
able to be on point every day mentally. I mean,

01:22:11.489 --> 01:22:14.029
look, we're interviewing now. I trained this

01:22:14.029 --> 01:22:17.189
morning. So much is going on and I have to be

01:22:17.189 --> 01:22:19.710
mentally sharp. But I think that for the body.

01:22:20.189 --> 01:22:22.569
I think that for the immune system, those are

01:22:22.569 --> 01:22:24.710
the two places I feel at the strongest. When

01:22:24.710 --> 01:22:28.770
I'm getting a lot of sleep, mentally, I do much

01:22:28.770 --> 01:22:32.109
better. And I feel like my immune system is just

01:22:32.109 --> 01:22:34.430
rock solid. I feel like if I start getting sleep

01:22:34.430 --> 01:22:36.989
deprived, I feel like my immune system is like,

01:22:37.069 --> 01:22:40.189
I feel like I can get sick very easily. So what

01:22:40.189 --> 01:22:41.989
do you think? Oh, I agree completely. And that's

01:22:41.989 --> 01:22:45.649
the thing. I mean, my, you know, this community,

01:22:46.130 --> 01:22:49.750
the profession I was in, We are so sleep deprived.

01:22:49.890 --> 01:22:52.149
And then when this this virus came, you know,

01:22:52.170 --> 01:22:54.750
it worried me because they they are more susceptible.

01:22:54.909 --> 01:22:58.010
And we had a lot of very healthy, fit firefighters

01:22:58.010 --> 01:23:00.770
and police officers that luckily did well despite

01:23:00.770 --> 01:23:03.289
that environment. But we lost we lost a lot this

01:23:03.289 --> 01:23:05.449
year, too. I don't think it was, you know, that

01:23:05.449 --> 01:23:09.069
they were frail people, but that. year after

01:23:09.069 --> 01:23:11.770
year after year of losing sleep, you know, if

01:23:11.770 --> 01:23:13.130
you could delve in the sleep medicine world,

01:23:13.289 --> 01:23:15.449
it's the sleep debt is real. Like, you know,

01:23:15.449 --> 01:23:17.449
when you lose it, you lose it. And then when

01:23:17.449 --> 01:23:19.750
you look at the impact of a poor immune system,

01:23:19.850 --> 01:23:22.710
you see the cancers, the heart disease, the autoimmune

01:23:22.710 --> 01:23:25.569
disease, the mental health problems. That's,

01:23:25.569 --> 01:23:27.609
you know, we don't, we don't die from one thing.

01:23:27.609 --> 01:23:29.329
We die from everything. And that's the point.

01:23:29.630 --> 01:23:33.689
Wow. So it's real. Yeah. Yeah. Charles Polken

01:23:33.689 --> 01:23:36.189
called sleep, like the most underrated health

01:23:36.189 --> 01:23:38.960
factor. and so i just call it like my secret

01:23:38.960 --> 01:23:41.819
weapon like i think you can i think you can survive

01:23:41.819 --> 01:23:43.500
and i think you can survive well on low sleep

01:23:43.500 --> 01:23:45.279
but man if you're surviving well on low sleep

01:23:45.279 --> 01:23:48.199
and you are also getting sleep i feel like i

01:23:48.199 --> 01:23:50.420
feel like we could all survive so much better

01:23:50.420 --> 01:23:53.439
but there is so much good binge worthy content

01:23:53.439 --> 01:23:56.640
to watch at night so many good tv shows and this

01:23:56.640 --> 01:23:59.600
and that that again it's kind of tough for us

01:23:59.600 --> 01:24:02.020
to shut off and then we have then we have that

01:24:02.020 --> 01:24:04.939
stimulating those stimulating lights and screens

01:24:04.939 --> 01:24:08.239
that we're looking at yeah Yeah, so it's very

01:24:08.239 --> 01:24:10.380
tough to fall. Like you can't just snap your

01:24:10.380 --> 01:24:12.079
fingers and fall asleep if you're someone who's

01:24:12.079 --> 01:24:13.720
used to going to sleep at midnight and watching

01:24:13.720 --> 01:24:17.340
TV. That's why I had to just like pull off the

01:24:17.340 --> 01:24:19.220
Band -Aid and try to go a whole year because

01:24:19.220 --> 01:24:23.500
I had this feeling at night that like I had to

01:24:23.500 --> 01:24:27.180
watch a TV show or two to wind down. I had that

01:24:27.180 --> 01:24:30.140
feeling. But by cutting that stuff out, boy,

01:24:30.260 --> 01:24:34.479
what happens when you put one and a half hours

01:24:34.479 --> 01:24:38.750
or so. of sleep additional for a year straight

01:24:38.750 --> 01:24:43.449
like my immune system feels like a young mike

01:24:43.449 --> 01:24:46.890
tyson yeah i did the same thing with alcohol

01:24:46.890 --> 01:24:50.489
so i've i've always said this i've never binged

01:24:50.489 --> 01:24:52.770
drinks i really didn't but i relied on it heavily

01:24:52.770 --> 01:24:55.270
to decompress in the evening yeah um especially

01:24:55.270 --> 01:24:58.069
more so towards the end of my career and did

01:24:58.069 --> 01:25:01.510
the 30 day stops and we just be right back at

01:25:01.510 --> 01:25:04.750
it again when i was done so actually about six

01:25:04.750 --> 01:25:07.449
and a half weeks ago i made the decision to just

01:25:07.449 --> 01:25:10.029
stop stop wow no i'm gonna stop for x amount

01:25:10.029 --> 01:25:12.609
of time i'm gonna stop and that in itself you

01:25:12.609 --> 01:25:14.329
know i'm going to bed earlier because you think

01:25:14.329 --> 01:25:16.270
that it winds you down it doesn't you can buy

01:25:16.270 --> 01:25:17.949
an alcohol with television you're still wide

01:25:17.949 --> 01:25:20.869
awake at 11 30 at night now i've taken that out

01:25:20.869 --> 01:25:22.789
i'm actually getting tired earlier and earlier

01:25:22.789 --> 01:25:25.010
and earlier so so that's another thing but it's

01:25:25.010 --> 01:25:27.869
interesting with that same mindset with television

01:25:28.670 --> 01:25:31.050
That applies with alcohol. What if I challenge

01:25:31.050 --> 01:25:33.829
that and don't turn on the TV, but just read

01:25:33.829 --> 01:25:36.750
instead? You know, how much sooner would I get

01:25:36.750 --> 01:25:39.390
drowsy then? Man, is that productive too. Yeah.

01:25:39.449 --> 01:25:42.090
Yeah. Very interesting. All right. Well, then

01:25:42.090 --> 01:25:44.729
speaking of that. So when you are not doing all

01:25:44.729 --> 01:25:46.149
the incredible things that you're doing, what

01:25:46.149 --> 01:25:51.149
do you do to decompress? Really enjoy my family

01:25:51.149 --> 01:25:55.829
and my dog. So like I can't wait every morning.

01:25:55.890 --> 01:25:58.680
I can't wait for my I take my dog like. down

01:25:58.680 --> 01:26:00.659
here by the water, we go on like a big loop every

01:26:00.659 --> 01:26:03.560
morning. Maybe it's a mile, mile and a half,

01:26:03.659 --> 01:26:05.979
two mile, maybe about a mile and a half. But

01:26:05.979 --> 01:26:09.140
like, I look forward to that walk every morning.

01:26:09.159 --> 01:26:10.939
And then the evening, like really look forward

01:26:10.939 --> 01:26:14.439
to time with my family. So I also feel like that's

01:26:14.439 --> 01:26:17.319
very fortunate. If I was just a single guy, um,

01:26:17.520 --> 01:26:19.439
I feel like that created when I was living on

01:26:19.439 --> 01:26:21.460
my own, I feel like it created the habits of

01:26:21.460 --> 01:26:23.979
watching TV at night and stuff. Cause you don't,

01:26:23.979 --> 01:26:25.960
you don't have someone, you don't have a counterpart

01:26:25.960 --> 01:26:29.699
there. Yeah. So I feel like Having my wife made

01:26:29.699 --> 01:26:32.760
it a million times easier because we kind of

01:26:32.760 --> 01:26:35.859
grew to where it was like super enjoyable. All

01:26:35.859 --> 01:26:38.739
right, the phones are off. Now we get to actually

01:26:38.739 --> 01:26:46.680
like hang out, chat, bond. So that's the only

01:26:46.680 --> 01:26:48.500
things I've been able to find to replace that

01:26:48.500 --> 01:26:52.369
family and my dog. What about you? Same. yeah

01:26:52.369 --> 01:26:54.010
it's funny because i bought my dog actually i've

01:26:54.010 --> 01:26:56.449
got a puppy now so three times a day but yeah

01:26:56.449 --> 01:26:58.829
the morning one is about the same distance actually

01:26:58.829 --> 01:27:00.890
about a mile and a half the evening one is shorter

01:27:00.890 --> 01:27:05.170
one because my one dog is 10 10 just over 10

01:27:05.170 --> 01:27:07.170
so she's a little slower yeah but the middle

01:27:07.170 --> 01:27:09.590
one i'll i'll just destroy the puppy to get her

01:27:09.590 --> 01:27:12.229
tired dogs are great companions they are and

01:27:12.229 --> 01:27:14.250
then again i leave my phone at home it's my kind

01:27:14.250 --> 01:27:16.550
of walking meditation time oh wow that's really

01:27:16.550 --> 01:27:18.449
smart yeah yeah i don't think i'd be able to

01:27:18.449 --> 01:27:21.329
do the no entertainment stuff at night if i didn't

01:27:21.329 --> 01:27:25.500
have family and or a dog yeah exactly all right

01:27:25.500 --> 01:27:28.720
well then um for people that want to subscribe

01:27:28.720 --> 01:27:30.760
to atg where do they find that and where's the

01:27:30.760 --> 01:27:32.960
best place to follow you on social media yeah

01:27:32.960 --> 01:27:35.699
appreciate it atgonlinecoaching .com is where

01:27:35.699 --> 01:27:39.039
someone can dive in and do my program uh i highly

01:27:39.039 --> 01:27:40.920
recommend reading a book first to see if you

01:27:40.920 --> 01:27:43.800
like it that way there's no pressure um so by

01:27:43.800 --> 01:27:46.800
my books are on amazon knee ability zero and

01:27:46.800 --> 01:27:52.699
atg for life and i'm on instagram youtube uh

01:27:52.699 --> 01:27:56.239
tiktok and facebook as knees over toes guy and

01:27:56.239 --> 01:27:57.960
are you still offering the half off the first

01:27:57.960 --> 01:27:59.479
month yeah i think we're just going to do that

01:27:59.479 --> 01:28:03.020
all year okay so that's 2022 makes it 20 and

01:28:03.020 --> 01:28:05.520
22 cents no long -term contract for someone who

01:28:05.520 --> 01:28:07.439
wants to dive in and ask questions and have their

01:28:07.439 --> 01:28:09.520
form coached perfect yeah it's a pretty pretty

01:28:09.520 --> 01:28:11.979
risk -free trial yeah i appreciate that brilliant

01:28:11.979 --> 01:28:13.680
all right well ben i just want to say thank you

01:28:13.680 --> 01:28:16.000
i mean i came down here you know i got to train

01:28:16.000 --> 01:28:17.960
with you we went and had steak for lunch now

01:28:17.960 --> 01:28:20.199
we did this so i truly appreciate your time today

01:28:20.199 --> 01:28:22.680
i really appreciate you you have to drive back

01:28:22.680 --> 01:28:24.720
so it means a lot to me thanks for coming