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I'll spell that to you because it's not as you
think, T -E -A -M -B -U -I -L -D -R .com. Welcome
to the Behind the Shield podcast. As always,
my name is James Gearing and this week I have
an extremely powerful conversation for you. Brian
Sizemore is the founder of the Lucas Foundation
and the father of law enforcement officer Lucas
Sizemore. Jared Murphy is a special agent in
Homeland Security and had worked with Lucas.
The tragedy that brought these two men together
was Lucas's suicide in 2024. So we discuss a
host of topics from Lucas's childhood through
Brian's eyes, his journey into the world of law
enforcement, Jared's path into Homeland Security,
processing grief, the inception of the Lucas
Foundation, the bring them home 1000 mile relay
they'll be doing later this year, and so much
more. Now, before we get to this incredible conversation,
as I say every week, please just take a moment,
go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe
to the show, leave feedback and leave a rating.
Every single five -star rating truly does elevate
this podcast, therefore making it easier for
others to find. And this is a free library of
almost 1 ,100 episodes now. So all I ask in return
is that you help share these incredible men and
women's stories so I can get them to every single
person on planet Earth who needs to hear them.
So that being said, I introduce to you Brian
Sizemore and Jared Murphy. Enjoy. Well, Brian
and Jared, I want to start by saying thank you
so, so much for taking the time and coming on
the Behind the Shield podcast today. It's our
pleasure, James. It's our honor. Thanks for having
us on, James. Beautiful. All right. Well, obviously,
there's two of you today, two different locations.
So I'll kind of bounce back and forth between
the two of you. Let's start with you, Brian.
Where on planet Earth are we finding you this
morning? I am in a small suburb south of Detroit
called Woodhaven. Jared and I are both in the
Detroit area. He's just on one side of town.
I'm on the other. Brilliant. So staying with
you, let's start at the very beginning of your
timeline. And obviously, we're going to walk
through to your son and the reason that we're
having this conversation today. But tell me where
you were born and tell me a little bit about
your family dynamic, what your parents did, how
many siblings. I am in the same area that I was
born and raised in. I've never moved. Out of
town, out of state, anything like that, I'm probably
20 miles from where my childhood home is, where
I grew up. I was a little town called River Rouge,
Michigan, just outside of Detroit. Industrial
town back in the 50s and 60s is like a location
where shipyards and steel mills and all of that
type of stuff was located. Great little town.
Grew up there. Got an education. Got a good job.
I work for AT &T. My wife is a school teacher.
So we have a modest middle class home, middle
class family here in Woodhaven. I'm the oldest
of four children. I got two younger brothers
and a younger sister. are uh still with us my
parents are still with us uh my dad was a uh
uh he worked for norfolk southern railway for
gotta be 40 years i believe my mom was a homemaker
and she had some she had some small jobs as well
brilliant now when i think of you know that the
rust belt and some of the other cities that were
absolutely booming with industry and then those
jobs were sent away mining is another example
that's more often than not is also a kind of
hotbed when it comes to this mental health conversation
that we're going to have and and the opioid crisis
really kind of blew that open with you having
this lineage in the same place what have you
observed your generation previous generations
of the impact of that on your local communities
i i think uh now we've been blessed we my wife
and i have been blessed to obtain and be able
to keep a good job and make a good living and
raise a family. But that's not easy. And I firmly
believe it takes a lot of luck sometimes. But
when you have friends or you see communities,
especially industrial communities that are hit
hard and people have lost their jobs, it... it
affects everything. It affects families, it affects
the marriages, it affects, you know, their home,
you know, people are losing their homes. And
I think those things snowball to a point where
it, I'm guessing, I don't know, personally, someone
that it's happened to, but it probably starts
with substance abuse. And then once you're on
that path, if you don't get some help, it's just
going to snowball and get worse. Absolutely.
Well, Jared, let's jump over to you. Firstly,
where on planet Earth are we finding you today?
Yeah, so I'm also in the Detroit area. I'm a
little north of Bryan. I live in a small town
just northwest of Detroit called Franklin. Nice
community. Brilliant. And beginning of your origin
story, where were you born? Tell me a little
about your family dynamic, what your parents
did, how many siblings? Yeah, so I'm originally
from Colorado, born and raised in the Denver
area. Lived there until I was 18 and went away
to college. I've got one brother. He lives in
New York with his family. His daughter actually
is the fourth generation University of Colorado
student. I think she might be the only one. She
follows me and my mom and my grandmother and
her mom. So that's a little bit in our family.
My mom's a nurse or was a nurse rather. Retired
now. My father was a small business owner. I'm
a federal agent. I've been doing law enforcement
as a career for the last 25 years. Moved around
a little bit. I lived in Los Angeles and New
York. We lived in Buenos Aires, Argentina. Had
the opportunity to see the world. Did a year
in school in your part of the world. I lived
in Belfast for a year in the late 90s. That's
a little snapshot of me. Brilliant. Well, firstly,
what took you into the world of law enforcement?
You know, when I was a young man, In high school
and college, this was kind of the time of Waco
and Ruby Ridge when federal law enforcement was
in the news a lot. And I thought that that was
exciting. And I don't think that I was ever meant
to be a desk job type person. I wanted something
with adventure and excitement. And I think it
just fit me. And when I was in college, I got
an internship. with the U .S. Customs Service
Office of Investigations. Did a summer internship
there, and I knew this is what I was going to
do as a career. Fighting crime, fighting bad
guys, helping people, serving the country, all
those things really spoke to me. What was your
experience firsthand in Belfast? Because when
I think about the 90s, in my memory being an
Englishman, it was still quite a turbulent time
there. Yeah, so great question, James. So I arrived
in Belfast about a week after Oma, which was
the last big bombing of the war and really caused
a lot of change. And when I lived there, it was
very divided. It still is in many ways. I don't
think quite as much. Very policed. The military
was still on the street. The RUC was a very aggressive
police force for reasons I understand. And it
was a very gritty city, in many ways similar
to Detroit, but with a very different crime environment.
It's interesting now, and this is an apolitical
statement, this is just a human statement. I
grew up on the mainland, and we were having to
check our cars for bombs because I lived on a
farm right next to a Ministry of Defense base.
And, you know, there was bombings on the on the
mainland, you know, women and children. But when
you reverse, you know, engineer the origin of
that hatred in the first place, you know, there's
the potato famine and you can go back and back
and back. Now you've got a lot of the Irish people
standing up for what's going on in Gaza. And,
you know, the terrorism was supported even by
Hollywood, you know, in the IRA back in the day.
And now the very people that were, you know,
trying to. retake their homeland. Now this voice
is being mirrored in 2025. So it's interesting
watching the generation I saw struggle when I
was younger on both sides. And now you have this
united voice from those people speaking up for
the oppressed. And I'm talking about the innocents,
the women and children that are still being oppressed
from both sides in that particular region. Yeah,
I think it's a characteristic of Irish people
to support the underdog. That's sort of part
of their nature. But it's really not that new
to me, James, because when I lived in West Belfast,
there's murals over row houses everywhere that
would support, you know, anti -apartheid, the
Palestinian liberation movement and different
organizations that sought, you know, their own
independence and sovereignty. So to me, it doesn't
surprise me that Irish people, you know, support
the oppressed. Their history has really been
colored by oppression. Exactly. I think that's
the point is, again, a political statement. If
we stop this generational trauma, which is like
we were talking about when you pull industry
from parts of America, you create this generational
trauma. If you can stop those dominoes from falling,
that's how you, you know, finally halt this cycle
of hurt. And obviously hurt people hurt people.
We understand how we got here. The question is,
how do we now draw a line in the sand and say
enough is enough? All right, moving on. Let's
go back to Brian then. So Brian, as you're progressing
now, you're in the logistics side of AT &T. Talk
to me about the birth of Lucas and then let's
talk about who he was as a little boy. So when
he was born, and this is... Kind of an amusing
story. My wife, he was born from an emergency
C -section. She was far enough along the doctor
had us come to the hospital. Her labor wasn't
progressing as fast as the doctor would have
liked. So they did a few things and then all
of a sudden now it was coming fast. They had
monitors on her. They had monitors on Lucas and
his heart rate stopped or not stopped, started
to drop. So split second decision, her doctor
decided that that baby was coming out. That baby
was coming out right now. So they had me get
dressed, put on a gown. By the time I put that
on and they walked me into the operating room.
She was already cut open and he was coming out.
It happened that fast. So he comes out and the
story they told me is a newborn loses their body
temperature faster if they're born cesarean than
if it's a natural birth. So they put them under
this thing. I call it a French fry lamp. It reminds
me of looking at. looking over the counter at
McDonald's because I'm actually standing. I left
to go with him. Once that baby is born, they
focus on mom. A whole nother team takes care
of the baby. I go with him and I'm standing there
with him sweating at this point because I'm next
to this heat lamp that they have him under. They're
trying to warm him up. And the nurse says, she
tells me, he has to cry. You got to make him
cry more. Because it helps develop his lungs.
I didn't know what to do. This is my first child.
I'm a brand new dad. I didn't know what to do.
So she tells me, pull his hair. So I'm pulling
his hair. And then she takes my fingers. And
she's like, no, you have to make him cry. So
the kid's not on the planet for five minutes.
And here's his dad pulling his hair under this
lamp, making him cry. So that's how he... came
about to be on this earth. And then, um, normal
childhood did everything that, uh, you know,
you see on TV that a normal American boy would
do sports and bicycles and skateboards and girls
and, you know, went to school right here in,
in Woodhaven. Went to high school, graduated
high school. He had a normal childhood. Like
I said, we've been blessed that both of us have
always had good, stable jobs and have had a stable
home. We got a very close -knit immediate family.
He's got a younger brother, Evan, which he's
four years younger. And then that's the only
sibling. And all of my nieces and nephews, which
are Luke and Evan's cousins, they're all very
close, very tight -knit. What sports was he playing
through the school ages? He played, we always
were of the mindset to let them try anything,
everything, whatever they liked. We never tried
to force him into one thing or another. So he
started out with trying to learn to ice skate
and play hockey, which he didn't take to. He
was in martial arts for a little bit. um he that
really didn't stick um and then we like if even
if there were things that he didn't like we were
we were never uh the type of parents that made
them continue to do something and because i coached
for a long time and i i've seen the in in my
opinion the harm it does to a child when parents
are forcing them to do something that they don't
want to do. And, you know, the child's just miserable.
So he, he played tee ball. He wrestled. He didn't
really take the bat either. So he, he ended up
not wrestling, played football for years. When
he got into high school, he took up golf, was
pretty good at it, but, but got the interest
so much. He kept The high school didn't have
a golf team. And he pestered that poor athletic
director so much that that athletic director
finally gave in and started a golf team. And
he really did like that even after high school
when he was in college and even down in Atlanta.
He tried to golf as much as he could. He enjoyed
it. What about career aspirations as he's progressing
through those school ages? What was he talking
to you about wanting to become? He never law
enforcement didn't come up. He he had a slight
interest in veterinary medicine. He had talked
about that. Nothing, nothing specific yet. I
think he was trying to be open minded. I noticed
we noticed the interest in law enforcement. When
he was at Eastern Michigan, when he had graduated
high school and he had enrolled in Eastern, I
don't know if there was a course or something
that he took, but that's when his family noticed
it. He became interested there. A lot of us in
uniform, and I've seen this from over a thousand
interviews now. It's amazing how many people
do have struggles from early life. And that is
part of the overall equation, especially, God
forbid, they end up taking their own life. When
you reflect back now, obviously, you said there
was a healthy healing home. Were there any other
elements of his upbringing, bullying, anything
like that, that you remember that might have
contributed to his struggles later? No, no. He
was always a very outgoing kid. He was never
socially awkward or anything. He always was part
of the group. He didn't have any social problems
or anything like that. At least anything that
we were aware of or any of the schools were aware
of. The school districts here are pretty on top
of that type of thing. So any child that's getting
bullied at school, the parents are going to know
about it. And that was never the case with him.
And what about in the football or martial arts?
Did he ever take any large hits when he was younger?
No, nothing abnormal. I mean, you know, football
is a contact sport. Hockey is a contact sport.
So nothing, nothing out of the ordinary. No.
So talk to me about the decision to enter law
enforcement and then, you know, what that kind
of on ramp was like for him. So he, like I said,
when he was at Eastern, he. I can't put my finger
on one thing that triggered it, that really set
him off. I can tell you that when his uncle was
with HSI, Homeland Security Investigations, and
helped secure him the internship with the downtown
Detroit office. And I think that. If he was leaning
that way, once he started that internship, it
was all over. As a parent, you can feel your
child's excitement. Wake up wanting to go to
work, wake up telling stories like what they
were supposed to do today, what they were going
to do tomorrow. You could just feel it. You could
hear it in his voice that he enjoyed it. And
we knew at some agency, some department, somewhere,
that's where he was going to be. He wanted to
stay with federal law enforcement at the time.
I mean, the administration changed, rules changed.
But at the time, the only federal agency that
would hire him with no law enforcement experience,
even though he had his degree, he was he was
a graduate of Eastern Michigan at that time,
was the Border Patrol. And that I don't think.
He was ready for that path yet. So he started
looking locally for police departments. There's
a lot of law enforcement in my family, one of
which was a was a chief at the time, would have
hired him. All he had to do was say the word
and would have gave him a job. But like Jared
said, I think Lucas wanted the adventure and
the excitement and those type of things that
you. You don't get a lot of that with a small
local police department. And Lucas wanted to
do the adventurous things, the exciting things.
So that led him to start looking at larger metropolitan
police departments. I believe he just. Filled
out a questionnaire. I know the Atlanta Police
Department is constantly doing like hiring and
job fairs and stuff like that. So he probably
saw something online and applied. And then a
couple of weeks after that, he got a notification
to come down for testing and physicals and stuff
like that. He passed all of that. And then maybe
a week or two after that, they offered him a
position and he took it. That's where he ended
up. So when he was assigned, kind of what was
the kind of area that he was working in? And
then also what were the shifts that he was working
at that point? So he, I believe it's during their
field training, they get to preference. Jared,
you can help me with this. I don't know what
the laws are in other states, but in the state
of Georgia, he had to be sworn in. Before the
state of Georgia would let him go on the street
with a with a gun or a taser or any of that.
So he had finished the academic academy, so to
speak, was sworn in as a police officer and then
was on the road with a training officer for months.
And I think it was during that time they were
allowed to preference where they wanted to go
now in Atlanta. They don't call them precincts.
They call them zones. I believe there are six.
And he was smart enough to research that zone
four was the I don't know how to say this without
just saying it. It's not the nicest area. Very
busy. A lot of calls, a lot of crime, a lot of
you name it. But he also. was smart enough to
find out that a lot of the command structure
was promoted out of that zone because they see
everything. For example, like some of the other
zones are like more downtown. It's, it's a lot
of traffic and, and he didn't want to do that.
He wanted to be like Jared says, chasing the
bad guys. So that's where he went. Yeah. He got
what he wanted. So, and then he worked the evening
watch, which was about. He's starting about 3
o 'clock in the afternoon. It's like 3 to 2 a
.m. thereabouts. Okay. By the time he's at the
zone, getting his car, getting his loaded up,
getting his bag and all of that, it's about 3
o 'clock in the afternoon. Okay. Well, Jared,
do you want to jump in and kind of talk about
where you and Lucas met? Sure. Yeah. So Luke
did an internship with my office, the HSI field
office in Detroit. in the summer of 2021 and
he was assigned to our global trade investigations
group they handle investigations of sensitive
technology and military hardware and weapons
preventing those from leaving the country to
get in the hands of our adversaries countries
like china and russia iran and north korea and
he was very eager very enthusiastic about the
job you could tell that he was kind of mesmerized
with the opportunity and had a goal in his life
of becoming an agent. And I am confident that
if things worked out differently, we would have
hired him probably by now, if not sooner. And
at the time, he actually potentially could have
been hired by us. We weren't hiring at the time.
There wasn't an announcement. But I think had
there been an announcement, he would have been
very competitive with his degree. You know, when
you do an internship, we like the young people.
It's a learning opportunity where they get exposed
to the job. And, you know, things turned out
differently. Probably would have been hired on
already. Well, Brian, back to you. As he's progressing
through this young career, were there any changes
in behavior? I don't want to say warning signs
because that almost sounds like, oh, we should
have known. But changes in behavior when you
reflect back now? No, not. Not changes that I
would I would say were leading to his death.
I noticed I just noticed a young man starting
his life and starting his career and and. Struggling,
probably like all of us did, like, you know,
the. The Atlanta Police Department has a wonderful
benefit for their recruits. They actually built,
the Atlanta Police Foundation built a, I want
to say it's four story apartment building. So
as they're going through the academy, doing their
field training, they have a very low rent apartment
offered to them, fully furnished, pretty much
just bring your clothes and go get yourself some
groceries. He had the foresight to know that.
And once he was done with his field training
and got posted, he's going to have to get an
apartment. So Atlanta is just like any other
metro city, big metro city, expensive as heck
to live downtown, but you're closer or you live
45 minutes outside of town. Your rent is cheaper,
but you've got to deal with the commute and Atlanta
traffic is horrible. So his apartment was was
in Atlanta proper, but. you know, outside a little
bit. Nice, nice one bedroom with an office apartment.
But he was, you know, he was dealing with all
of that. Like he had to figure out, okay, I got
to figure out a budget. I got to get myself groceries.
I got to get, I got to pay my rent. Like he lived
at home. I worked for AT &T. So his, his cell
phone, his internet, his Entertainment, his satellite
TV, I took care of all that because I get a discount
on it. So he had to grow up really fast because
now he's got all of that stuff on his plate.
And I could tell, and this is probably true for
a lot of young, not just law enforcement officers,
young people entering the workplace. I could
tell the first thing that you scratch out of
your budget is the fun stuff. or the stuff that
you're trying to eat. So he would make comments
like this certain McDonald's give you 99 cent
cheeseburgers on Tuesdays. So things like that,
you know, like, okay, the kid doesn't have a
lot of money for groceries. So he's going to
McDonald's to get 99 cent cheeseburgers. You
know, I can read between the lines, but nothing
upsetting to the point that we ever thought that
there was something wrong. that is one of the
things that, that haunts me is like, what, what,
what did I not see? It's been really interesting
learning from all these people, yourself and
then, you know, the, the lived experience stories,
the people that survived suicide attempts, excuse
me, suicide attempts, the psychologist, psychiatrist,
I mean, all these layers. And when I think back
to how suicide was presented to us collectively,
when we were younger, It was, well, it's cowardly,
it's selfish. How could you think of your family?
And then you actually listen to people that have
been there, which arguably is probably what we
should have done all along. And you realize that
through... the perfect storm of all the contributing
elements, and I'll list them doesn't mean it's
pertinent to Luca specifically, but so many of
them unaddressed childhood trauma, sleep deprivation
is a huge one, organizational stress and betrayal,
the side effects of psych meds, alcohol, I mean,
you know, and then you've got this massive, like
I said, perfect storm of lots of factors rather
than one. Oh, it was because you had that one
call. Yeah, well, we have lots and lots of calls.
That's not the only thing. But when you hear
the voice of these men and women, their reality
is literally distorted. And that voice in their
head is telling them, you know, this is more
so, I think more pertinent when it's someone
who's actually, you know, got young children
and that kind of thing. You are a burden to your
family. You are the reason that your family is
feeling pain. And if you just remove yourself
because you swore to die for strangers, well,
surely you can die for your loved ones. And you've
got the means of it right on your hip. You know,
now you've got this horrendous. Arguably psychosis
because all these factors have literally rewired
the brain. And if that person truly believes
that and or there's this element of I just want
this pain to stop as well, it's combined. Now,
arguably, it's courageous and selfless because
they once again sacrifice their life for someone
that they, in this case, love. So what is so
sad is now understanding this eight and a half
years later. this needs to be front and center
if you are feeling like a burden if you hear
people say you know i'm a piece of shit or you
know my kids are scared of me whatever the thing
is that is something that we really need to be
talking about because if you can pull them back
into a healthier mind again none of these people
would actually go through with taking their own
life so with that all being said were there any
elements of that when you reflect back now a
kind of um guilt shame element No, I do remember
he had to adjust to the sleep patterns. When
he was done with his field training and he got
posted in zone four, he was never used to working
afternoon or night type shift. And he was tired
a lot. So I work. crazy shifts like that. And
I told him, I said, Luke, at least what works
for me is I have to treat that shift like it's
a day shift. Wake up an hour before you got to
go to work, just like you would in the morning,
go to work, come home, stay awake for a few hours,
just like you would in the evening, and then
eat something and go to bed. And once you...
get into that routine and you keep doing it,
your body will adjust. And he was coming out
of that. Because ironically, our shifts overlapped.
I would be coming home from work when he was
going in and vice versa. So I pretty much talked
to him at the beginning of his shift and at the
end of his shift almost every day. And I could
tell, I could tell by his voice that, you know,
he was sleeping better and he sounded better.
So I don't think that was a factor at, you know,
at the end there. I really, like I said, there
was no note. There was, the detectives went through
everything, you know, you know what the procedure
is. They went through everything, his phone,
his tablets, you know, email, everything. And
there was nothing, nothing. Well, let's talk
about that day then. So January 9th, 2024, you
know, the events leading up to, and then, you
know, let's unpack how you and your family even
process the grief of losing your beloved son.
So I was just, it started like a normal day.
I remember University of Michigan's football
team played in the national championship game
the night before. And him and one of his best
friends walked over to a little hamburger beer
place, like within walking distance of their
apartment. They watched like half the game and
came back to their apartment, watched the rest
of the game. And that was like the last we had
heard of him. At that point, I have to get up
to go to work at like 3 .30 in the morning. long
asleep and, uh, got up, went to work and it was,
it was actually 5 0 6 AM. Um, I, I got a routine.
Like I walk in, I walk in the building, I put
my stuff down on this table and, um, my phone
keys, that type of thing. And I go out in the
back of our building and start getting my day
going. And My one coworker, we're usually the
first two in the building. She comes running
with my phone. She said, Evans called you like
four times. He's blowing your phone up. Now,
that's that's not at the time was not odd because
he he played college football. Their practices
start started at 6 a .m. So he was awake and
I just assumed he, you know, something was wrong
with his car. You know, something silly like
that. So when I called him back and he finally
answered the phone, he he says, Dad, you got
to sit down. And I said, what are you talking
about? He said, Dad, you have to sit down. And
I said, Evan, just fucking tell me. And he said,
Luke's dead. And I say this because I don't I've
never I've never asked Evan, but like your your
brain. kind of does what it wants to do and what
I heard come out of his mouth was that he actually
accidentally shot himself so I tried and and
I didn't even realize that there was questions
is why Evan was calling me and not my wife well
we found out that uh they had tried to call her
um I don't believe they tried to call me I don't
believe Police department tried to call me and
they must have had Evan as a contact. So they
called him. So somewhere around 4, 4 a .m., 4,
15 a .m., he went into his shower and started
the shower, got in the shower and put a handgun
in his mouth and pulled the trigger, shot himself.
So now I call my wife. I looked at my coworker.
I said, I got to go. And she could tell something
bad had happened. So I called Marie and she was
like incoherent. I couldn't even understand what
she was saying. So I just told her I'm on my
way home right now. So I left, got in my truck.
It's about a half hour, 35 minutes away. I called
Evan back and told him because he was still at
school. I said. Drop everything you're doing
and get your butt home. Because, you know, obviously
we needed people at the house. I didn't still
didn't know what all was going to happen or any
of that. So when I got home, I go through the
garage into the house through the entry door.
And I'm sure of it that Marie was still standing
in the spot she was standing when I talked to
her a half hour before. I'm sorry. Take your
time, brother. There's no rush at all. The sound
of his mom. I can't get that out of my head.
Just the pain coming out of her. I still couldn't
understand what she was saying. On the way home,
I had looked for flights. I couldn't, there was
no flights until the afternoon. So I looked at
her, I said, I'm not, I'm not waiting. I'm going
to Atlanta right now. I'm leaving right now.
Her mother lives with us, which I don't. really
think was the case, but she, Marie was not going
to be in any kind of condition to go down there
and see him or see that. And she told me, I can't
go, I can't go see him like that. And I said,
okay, I'm going. I said, I'm not waiting for
nobody. I grabbed what I had laying around and
jumped in my truck. And by probably quarter after
six, I was on my way to Atlanta to go get them.
So James, at that point, I still had not had
any kind of confirmation from anybody. The only
person I heard that from at that point was Evan.
So I was kind of in the dark still. So as I'm
driving to Atlanta, I was probably in the Toledo
area. And this is actually a point that I bring
up to. uh the recruits at the academy class when
i go speak to them is like i knew his friends
i knew i knew their names because he talked about
them all the time i didn't have any of their
phone numbers so i didn't know who to call um
his one roommate um i did have his number but
he was no longer with apd so i had no idea of
who to try to get a hold of and it just struck
me to call the desk sergeant. I called the desk
sergeant at zone four of Atlanta Police Department
and she answered the phone. I never did get that
young lady's name. I'm sure whatever the technology
is, my caller ID came up and she said, Sizemore,
Sizemore, we're getting these reports. These
reports are coming in. Are you okay? And I said,
ma 'am, I said, this is Brian Sizemore. I'm Lucas's
dad. I said, I'm getting the same reports. I'm
in my truck on my way to Atlanta right now. And
she said, OK, Mr. Sizemore, Major Clay is on
his way to the scene and he'll call you as soon
as he's got some information. And I would say
about a half hour after that, it wasn't Major
Clay that called me. It was Chief Shearbaum of
the Atlanta Police Department called me and he
was the one that confirmed that Lucas was dead.
He had just left the scene. He was on his way
to Zone 4. He wanted to be there for their roll
call that morning because word was starting to
get out. I'm sure it was over the radio and that
type of stuff. So he wanted to be there to let
them all know. And then throughout the day, the
chief himself probably called me at least 12
times to make sure I was okay, asked me where
I was. I got phone calls from the chaplains.
Major Clay called. And that's on top of having
to, now I got to start calling. My family and
like Marie knew, Evan knew, but I had to call
my mom and dad. I had to call my sister. I had
to call his cousins, the aunts and uncles. I
had to call all these family members and tell
them. I had to call Paul and tell him. And it
just sucked. That was hard. The whole day was.
unbelievably hard still is so talk to me about
the next few weeks i mean you know you have this
jarring loss um from the from the family point
of view first as far as simply dealing with grief
you know what when you reflect back now are the
things that you guys did well and what were the
things that you would do differently possibly
um it was i that's that's a hard one to answer
i And so I was in Atlanta for, I want to say
it was four, maybe five days. And I'm grateful
that his classmates and his friends were able
to help me. And this was all new to me, like
I said. My sister and brothers are still alive.
My mom and dad are still alive. I've never had
to make funeral arrangements for anybody. And
being that he was out of state, it was almost
like having to make two sets of arrangements.
He, of course, went to the medical examiner's
office. I had to make arrangements for him to
be picked up from there and taken to a funeral
home in Atlanta so they could prep him. to bring
them on a flight to Detroit. Um, when, when I
finally did get to Atlanta, the, the, uh, the
chief had the chief and the police foundation
had me put up in a hotel and they, they took
so good care of me. I, they just alleviated all
that extra hassle for me. Um, they, they asked
the questions that I knew that they were going
to ask and, and, uh, He reassured me that I would
get his badge and his belongings and stuff after
they were done with, with what they had to do.
And then I had to go through the process of the
next morning. I had to go, I had to go clean
out his apartment. I had to, I had to package
up his clothes and, and that, I don't know if
it would have been better or worse. If I had
a family member with me when I walked into that
apartment, because that's I walked in there,
I could still smell him. I could smell his cologne.
I could smell his deodorant. I could smell what
he cooked the night before. And that I kind of
lost it a little bit when I walked in there.
And then like I immediately go into get things
done mode and started. Packaging up his clothes
and everything and like filled up my truck and
filled up his car and the next day we got him
from the medical examiner and took his remains
out to the funeral home where they prepped him.
Sometimes I, it may have helped me to have a
family member with me when I was down there,
but then on. The other hand, I don't know. I
mean, I was able to get it done. And for lack
of better words, there wasn't anyone in my way
or telling me do this or do that. I was pretty
much all business. So down there, I don't think
I had a whole lot of time to grieve because I
was so almost overwhelmed with everything that
I had to do. Just to get him home. Now, luckily,
I came home and his flight was going to be a
couple of days later. So then when I got home,
like I had drive back home, I pulled up. You
couldn't park on my street. There were so many
people here, friends, family. On one hand, that
helped. But then on the other hand, I was tired
and I just wanted to sleep. And Marie was just,
it's so, it's painful to me to see her pain.
And Evan has really struggled too. His only brother
is gone. And again, I haven't had to deal with
this kind of grief. So I don't know if we're
doing it right or not. I can only tell you how
we're doing it. You know, every day, every day,
something will trigger me to get emotional. And
sometimes it's silly things like, you know, a
certain song I'll hear or the smell of some kind
of food that he liked or, you know, something
silly like that. But I don't think I'll ever
get over it. I want to bring Jared in, but just
one more question. You seem to have two kind
of paths when this is the reason that we lose
someone. Either A, you get these families that,
you know, they put it out there. This is what
happened. And I think that is the conversation
that we need to have. And then there's still
this other path where people kind of want to
keep it hush hush. And that's where the stigma
comes in. And we just lost another FDNY firefighter
a couple of days ago. And I happened to find
out through a page that had all these, you know,
helpline numbers attached to it and everything.
Oh, OK. So it was a suicide. But all the official
notifications was nothing mentioned. Every time
we just see, oh, someone someone died suddenly.
You know, then then we can read between the lines,
but it's never actually put out there. So did
you encounter any kind of stigma in the arena
that you were in or was it actually received
the way it should have been? I. So when I the
the within I would say within a half hour after
I so I drove right from Detroit to Atlanta, only
time only thing I stopped for was gas. I got
to Marietta, which is just north of Atlanta.
Chief told me to pull into the McDonald's. He
called me, told me to pull into McDonald's. When
I got there, there were two police cars. One
was his training officer and another patrolman
and then his best friend. So his best friend,
they didn't want me to drive no more. His best
friend drove my truck. who was another APD officer,
and then the training officer and the other patrolman,
they took the police cars, bracketed us, took
us right downtown to the hotel. So we go upstairs
into this conference room. The detectives and
everyone asked the questions that they needed
to ask. One of the chaplains was going to assist
me with making some arrangements and all of those
type of things. And so literally half hour, 45
minutes. Sitting in this conference room, Chief
is sitting right next to me, and he was close
with Lucas because Lucas, as they progress through
the academy, they have a job. They're given a
job. Some work in the motor pool doing odd jobs.
Some will work, you know. in evidence, you know,
doing odd jobs, Lucas got posted in the chief's
office. So he did administrative and clerical
stuff right there in the chief's office every
day. So chief Scherbaum walked past him and talked
to him every day. So it was, it, it hit home
to him as well. So he was, he was emotional.
And I asked him, I said, can we step out in the
hallway for a second? And I took him out in the
hallway and told him right then that's so. And
maybe 13 hours after I was notified that he had
passed away, I told Chief Schierbaum that the
family wants to start this foundation. I don't
want this to happen anymore. I don't want families
to have to go through this. I don't want whatever
pain that these heroes have to lead them down
the path to that final. that final solution.
It doesn't have to end up like that. I have a
sister -in -law who's an attorney. An hour after
that, I was in my hotel room, called her and
said, hey, get the paperwork ready. I don't know
what I want to call it yet. I don't know. any
of the details, but have the paperwork ready.
So when I'm home in four days, I can sign that
stuff and we can send it to the state of Michigan.
And that's, that's how it happened. There was
never, for me anyway, there was never, this might
sound off color too, is I'm, I had the type of
personality that I don't give a shit what people
think. And especially You know, Marie says that
I used to have a very small filter. And now she
said I just set it down somewhere and walked
away from it because I have no filter. I say
it sometimes it sounds brutal, but I try to be
honest. And I like the grief is so overwhelming.
I'm like, I don't I don't care what people think.
I don't care what they think. I do, but in the
sense that he's gone and he shouldn't be. So
let's get past that and try to figure out why
and figure out what these people need so this
stops. Absolutely. Yeah, I think one of the...
The thing that really makes me sad is the ones
that actually are acknowledged as such a small
part of just the ones that are in uniform. And
then there's another entire forgotten group,
which is the retirees. There is no VA for police
and fire. So none of those. Yep. You're exactly
right. They do not get talked about at all. Well,
Jared, let's bring you in. Firstly, from your
profession, your unique perspective within the
profession itself. What have you seen within
your agency or the law enforcement community
as a whole as far as the prevalence of this issue?
It's a great question. So, you know, for Brian
and for Marie and for Evan and for the Atlanta
Police Department, Lucas's suicide is, you know,
for the family, it's the most tragic event of
their life. And it's traumatic for many, many
people. But Brian is not alone. And there are
thousands of families just like them. Suicide
is the leading cause of death in law enforcement.
There are more law enforcement officers that
die as a result of suicide than felonious assaults,
than vehicular accidents, than training accidents.
And it's by a lot. And if you take away accidents,
suicides outpace felonious assaults that result
in death for law enforcement officers by like
seven to three. And I don't want to take anything
away from your profession, James. I know that
it's a big issue in the fire service and it's
a big issue in emergency medicine and with all
first responders. Our heart is with. Law enforcement
first, because it's what Lucas did. It's what
I do. It's what a lot of my friends and coworkers
do. But it's a massive issue. I think that we're
on the front end of some change. There's been
a terrible stigma to discussing mental health
within law enforcement since the beginning. It
was viewed as weakness to talk about any challenges
that you have. And yet. Law enforcement officers
have two big categories of trauma that they deal
with routinely. So you've got the chronic and
you've got the acute, right? So the acute is
what you would think of, you know, the critical
incidents, the emergency situations that you
have to respond to, the spikes in heart rate
and chemical reactions in your body that have
a fatiguing effect on your body. But also the
chronic. You brought up something I know exactly
what you're going by when you asked what shift
Evan works. And you know how difficult night
shifts and shifts that change where, you know,
one week or one month you're doing nights and
the next one you're doing evenings and the next
you're doing daytime. And that change is not
good for the body. The demands of police work
are underappreciated by the public. And it's
the same with the fire service as well. I think,
generally speaking, the difference between police
and firefighters is that everyone likes firefighters.
But a lot of people don't like police. And I
think we're emerging from an era where the real
hatred for law enforcement is starting to fade.
And we're coming out of a period where... It
was much like soldiers returning from the Vietnam
War in the United States who were hated by the
public for a job that they maybe didn't even
volunteer to do. In the case of law enforcement,
you do volunteer, but it's a noble profession
that is terribly underappreciated by the public.
And I think that law enforcement officers as
public servants, I think that the public has
some skin in the game with the law enforcement.
mental health challenges. Absolutely. No, it's
interesting because we have this conversation,
obviously, professionally between police and
fire. And it's true, like the surface level admiration
is definitely different. And I've experienced
this, I've written about it in my books, driving
down OBT in Orlando, red light district, you
know, gangbangers and sex workers and all the
people and they're waving at us. Because we're
the firefighter paramedics that are going to
be there on their worst day. Whereas for law
enforcement there, maybe there's one finger raised,
but not the whole hand to them because they're
a threat to them in that particular world that
they inhabit. But actually, when you look at
the true support where the rubber meets the road
for the fire, it's what they would use today,
virtue signaling. People think they admire firefighters,
but when it comes to actually saying, well, hey,
we need more firefighters because they're being
worked into the ground, then it's crickets. So
you've got this. It's different, but it's almost
not. I'm not going to say worse because each
of us have our challenges. But imagine everyone
thinking that you're really well taken care of.
But behind the scenes, you're having just, you
know, you're being shredded. And I'll give you
a perfect example. And I'm happy to put this
on air. We have a state representative, Danny
Alvarez. who just put in a bill that works for
police and fire. It's a health initiative. And
one of the things on the bill was to go to a
42 -hour work week for firefighters. Because
unbeknownst to most people, because we do a terrible
job telling the public what we actually do, a
lot of our men and women in that 24 -hour period,
they're up pretty much all night running calls.
And they work 56 hours a week. And then there's
mandatory overtime. And one overtime for us is
another 24 -hour period. So now it's an 80 -hour
work week. So Danny's put this in. This is a
fight that I've been doing for a long time. The
Florida Fire Chiefs Association puts out an email
amongst themselves that they agree with this
bill apart from the 42 hour work week. So these
chiefs that work 40 hours a week and go home
at 5 p .m. every night, Monday to Friday, behind
closed doors are saying, we don't think our firefighters
should work less than 56. So these are the kind
of, you know, behind the scenes things that are
happening. When I said organizational betrayal,
that is an immense detriment to a human psyche
when the very tribe they've sworn to die for.
cuts their legs from them so all these different
areas that you have i mean you guys especially
from the public from the politicians it's disgusting
i mean you look at some of these horrendous mistakes
that were made by individuals in a law enforcement
uniform a lot of times they were held accountable
to the full letter of the law but that's not
how it was portrayed on the media so you know
all the the first responder professions you have
this outward facing um kind of perspective, but
actually in a lot of them, when you look behind
the scenes, it's a lot worse than people even
realize. Yeah, I believe it. To your point, James,
that's got to be very disheartening, especially
since those chiefs that are having those discussions
behind closed doors have done your job, have
been the ones working 80 hours, and they should
know better. Well, a lot of them haven't. A lot
of them. I mean, maybe that's a problem. Because
I think, you know, more often than not, you'll
see that there is a kind of person that will
get off the streets as quickly as they can stay
on the administrative route and then climb that
ladder. So they haven't experienced that, which
is even worse. Right. For sure. Well, Jared,
going back to you. Talk to me then about when
you learned of Lucas's death and then let's kind
of collectively walk forward from the foundation
and then what we're doing next. So a couple of
years had passed and I hadn't had any additional
contact with Lucas between the time he completed
his internship with us in August of 21 until
Sunday morning, I got a call from a work colleague,
a retired work colleague. who is friends with
Luke's uncle, who also is a retired agent. And
he said that there was an Atlantic police officer
who had died and was originally from Detroit
and asked if we could facilitate the transfer
of his body when it arrived at the Detroit airport.
And I still didn't know who we were talking about.
And then it occurred to me. This was Lucas Sizemore,
our former intern. And so at that point, we did
everything we could to roll out the red carpet.
So his flight arrived from Atlanta late at night.
It was, I think, after midnight or sometime late
on this Sunday evening, Monday morning. And we
worked with a bunch of law enforcement agencies
and organized an honor escort from Plainside.
all the way to the funeral home with several
law enforcement vehicles with lights on, taking
them all the way home. And I think this is a
really touching story for law enforcement. None
of the people that showed up at the airport to
escort Lucas's body home knew him. But there
is a real brotherhood and sisterhood in law enforcement,
and I assume in the fire service, where we really
care about one another. And so I think that was
just a special moment seeing that happen and
having people that had no contact with him make
sure that he got the dignity that he deserved.
And a couple of days after that was the funeral.
It was a snowy gray day in Detroit and Brian
won't remember it, but I had met Brian and Marie
for the first time. hundreds of other people,
enormous service at a Catholic church in the
down river community. Very nice service. The
first several rows at mass were filled with the
officers from Luke's academy class, tremendous
turnout from Atlanta police department, tremendous
turnout, local law enforcement here in Detroit
and Southeast Michigan. And I didn't reengage
Brian until this past September, where we were
both at an event. A friend of ours puts on a
10 kilometer swim in the Detroit River to raise
awareness about military mental health and suicide.
And so by circumstance, I just ran into Brian
and Marie there. And this idea for a major event
to sponsor. the thousand mile law enforcement
relay run to prevent law enforcement suicide
kind of developed just naturally from that day.
And over the past, what have we been working
on this Brian? Seven months, eight months, I
think. Yep. There's so many little magical events
that have happened where by circumstance we'll
just happen to meet the right person to help
us with sponsorships or. just all these magical
things that fall in place where we're interacting
with good people that want to help out with this
effort. And it's, it's given Brian and I both
a real sense of purpose of something important
to work on. So September 23rd in Atlanta, our
thousand mile law enforcement relay run is going
to begin. And it's going to run 24 hours a day
for the next seven days. It's going through Georgia
and Tennessee, Kentucky, Indiana, Ohio, into
Michigan. And it's going to finish here in Detroit.
It's about 135 legs. The majority of those legs
are at where the runners transition from one
group to the next, where they pass the baton.
Majority of those locations are at police stations,
sheriff's offices, state police, federal law
enforcement offices. We're doing that on purpose
to stimulate this conversation in all those locations.
One of the things Brian's really passionate about
is large departments have lots of resources,
right? So if you work for Atlanta Police Department
or NYPD or LAPD, you're joining a giant agency
that has mental health resources and has lots
of support systems. But a lot of these locations
where we're going through in rural southeast
and... and the rural Midwest, some of these departments
have, you know, a dozen officers and they don't
have the infrastructure that the bigger organizations
and the federal agencies have. So the money that
we're going to raise is going to benefit that
effort to provide resources where the resources
for mental health don't exist. It's a, it's a
major event. So there's a lot of conversations
that are being started right now about mental
health in the law enforcement community. And
we're trying to take out the stigma. We're trying
to create a movement here by doing something
that's going to draw a lot of attention. We hope
to draw a lot of media attention during this
last week in September. We're hoping to get a
bill resolution passed in Congress in support
of law enforcement, mental health and help us
prevent suicide. And it's a tremendous effort.
Well, Brian, let's roll back for a second. So
you have this idea shortly after you lose your
son, you talk to your sister about preparing
legal documents. Talk to me about the unfolding
of the foundation in the first place. So, you
know, this is this is new to us. So I think I
was just overwhelmed with the the yearning to.
to help these heroes. I, I, like Jared said,
you it's, it's not talked about, um, when it
happens, it's not published. It's not, uh, like
you said, James, like you just hear, or you see
that somebody passed away, but it's not, it's
not posted how or why, or so you kind of got
to read between the lines. Um, In my experience,
when I was in Atlanta to get him, I I I found
out that it had just happened successfully. And
then there was an attempt that, you know, obviously
it was unsuccessful. So in since since then,
it's I'm hypersensitive to it. Like I listen
for it in the news and it is it is nonstop. It's
it's. probably once a week here in our own backyard.
You hear about it in Texas. You hear about it
in the East Coast. It happens constantly, and
it'll get reported, but that's where it stops.
You don't hear anything about any kind of follow
-up care or what's next for that department.
What are they doing for the officers that are
left? I mean, it just stops. These officers died
by suicide. Here's their funeral arrangements.
And then that's it. You don't hear anything about
it. So it was our initial focus and has always
been our focus to try to do whatever we can to
help them. And when I speak to them, I tell them
I'll go anywhere and do anything to help those
guys. So we've had several. local little fundraisers
and, and they're always successful. And we get,
you know, large crowds from the, uh, surrounding
Detroit community. And we always have a good
time. Um, and a lot of support from the law enforcement
community. So when I reconnected with Jared at
that fundraiser, we were at a couple of weeks
after that, um, he called me with this idea to
do this. this national event. And it seemed so
daunting and so large of an undertaking. I didn't,
I didn't think we could pull it off, but then
it like every week, it was like bowling pins
every week. We knocked that one down. We knocked
that one down. We knocked that one down. And
then. I say probably a couple months ago, we
kind of looked at each other and we were so far
along. We're like, this is going to happen. So
now it's like he said, you get excited by these
little things that happen. Maybe today we do
this. Maybe nothing happens tomorrow. Monday,
some other little good thing will happen. And
then something else will happen on Wednesday.
And it's just. One thing after another that we
can see it now, we can see it. And like he said,
my ultimate goal, if someone handed me a billion
dollars to spend on these heroes, I would like
to see a mental health program created by law
enforcement to treat law enforcement. I want
their specific program designed, created by them,
for them. And then some type of training regiment
instituted so the mental health professionals
can get on board with what law enforcement personnel
want and what law enforcement personnel need.
And if you are in law enforcement, You're a police
officer. You're an agent. You're in corrections.
You need some kind of mental health assistance.
You go to an office or you are looking for a
mental health professional online and you see
that logo, that Lucas logo, you know that they've
been through that training and that they're there
for them. So again, this journey that I've been
on, learning from all these people, one of the
biggest aha moments I had was to get into the
fire service. I work for four agencies professionally.
Three of them, I had to lie my way through a
polygraph because I try being honest at the beginning
of my career. And when you tell them what you
did, they were like, oh, you can't be a firefighter.
I was like, oh, so you have to lie. Got it. Because
most people that put the uniform on, we've done
some stuff when we were younger. That's why we're
good at what we, you know, going into danger.
But that being said, there's a thing called the
MMPI, the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Interview.
And everyone in the mental health community,
the professionals that have asked about this,
they were like, well, that was never supposed
to be a standalone psychological test to deem
someone to be the right kind of person to be
in uniform. Please fire EMS. So at the front
door, there's a lot of box checking. The polygraph
is just a magic show. And the MMPI is arguably
supposed to be used as a gamut of tests for forensic
psychology. So neither of them really have any
value. If we shift the lens and understand that
because these people are coming into uniform,
a lot of people do have things when they were
younger. That were arguably traumatic. Now, when
they are processed, that becomes a strength.
Hands down, you become a more compassionate,
more resilient first responder. But if they're
buried down and pushed, that can be a fracture
in your foundation. So understanding that, you
know, having the same as PT in the academy, having
counseling as part of your on -ramp that continues
through your career, I think is imperative. And
then again, like you said, aligning that with
the right kind of mental health thing. The other
thing that drives me crazy is locally here, the
chief of the department that protects my family
have had arguably seven suicide attempts, of
which five we've lost. And he did a speech recently
after we had two within 12 weeks of each other,
two young firefighters. And he said, we don't
have the answers. Well, that's absolute bullshit.
We do have the answers. We know all these different
parts of these puzzles. Now, does that mean that
you can save everyone? No, but it means that
there are these elements that we can prevent.
As you mentioned, just simply providing counseling
is one of them. But then the other one is sleep.
If we're going to ask someone to be awake while
everyone else is safely in their beds, we need
to give our first responders more rest and recovery
between shifts so they can get back to baseline.
So I think this is why. This is what drives me.
It's what drives you. It drives everyone else
that's kind of on this mission. We know that
there are ways that we can help a lot of people,
not everyone, but a huge portion of these people
that are struggling, we can get to with these
initiatives like the one that you're creating.
But this shoulder shrugging, and I'll give you
a perfect example. Every year, 40 ,000 Americans
die on our roads. Arguably, a lot of them are
children. When have you ever heard anyone say
we're going to change the age of a driving license?
We're going to make it harder to get a driving
license. So you have to have a higher level of
driving. Nothing. People just, oh, well, just
put a round circle by the freeway and we're good.
So it's the people that are driven by this pain
that need to be the voices because the ones that
we pay a lot of money that are in the government
buildings don't seem to be doing a lot of anything.
So I applaud you for. Turning this grief into
this mission because you will make a difference.
Absolutely. Hands down, you'll make a difference.
Thank you. We're trying. You know, James, one
of the reasons we're so grateful to get on your
podcast and to talk to your audience is mainly
about the issue, right? We want to remove the
stigma of discussing struggles. about mental
health within the law enforcement community.
But we also want to advertise this run. We want
to get the word out about this, especially to
your listeners that are going to be along our
route, along I -75. You know, we're going to
be going through a lot of rural communities in
Tennessee and Kentucky and northern Georgia.
And we need more runners to join us. We need
more corporate sponsors. We're really, really
grateful this last week, Home Depot. Fantastic
pro -American, pro -law enforcement company signed
on as our largest corporate sponsor. We're tremendously
grateful to them. General Dynamics, Land Systems,
another sponsor. And there are companies that
I think realize that they have skin in the game.
And we're particularly interested in getting
sponsorships from corporations that have law
enforcement contracts, that sell equipment or
services. or what have you to law enforcement
where they make a buck off the back of law enforcement.
And we're hoping that some of those companies,
those good companies are interested in giving
back and helping out the good guys. I had a great
connection with 5 .11. There's been some shift
in the management there, so I'm trying to reconnect,
but I'm sure they would be a company that would
want to help. I mean, I'm being presumptive,
but I mean, they do a lot of kind of altruistic
work as well. Yeah, we'd love that. They're on
our list. I haven't engaged 5 .11 yet, but I
will. What about AT &T, Brian? Because I know
that they, I think at least on the fire side,
they're the main or the biggest company that
we use for communication, if I'm not mistaken.
Yes, not to put the cart before the horse, but
there are negotiations taking place. It's a little
too... Too early for me to give any details,
but I am very confident that they're going to
come through. That's great to hear. I think this
is the thing that I do even with the sponsors
for the show. Every single one, I don't think
people realize this, every single one bar one
that was brought to me that was an amazing product.
It's called Team Builder. It's a kind of online.
fitness scheduling program that they have a whole
task alarm. Incredible. But every other one,
5 .11 included, I have used their stuff and said,
this profession needs to know about this company.
Thorne Supplements, you know, so many different
companies because people are going to spend money.
And I think the social businesses. the businesses
that are actually doing good things as well are
the ones that need to be highlighted. So they
are helping with this mission, but I think it's
equally important for us to highlight those businesses
that are worth the dollar, basically. Yeah, that
brand association, I think, is really powerful
when a brand shows that it's a member of the
community, right? The greater community, that
it supports and understands some of the struggles
that first responders have. I think that's a
really positive brand association. Absolutely.
Well, Brian, so people listening now, you need
runners, you need corporate sponsors. Where can
people go to learn more about the event? And
then how can they either sign up to run and or
sign up to actually support financially? There,
the website, the web address is www .lucascrusade
.org. It's L -U -C -A -S -C -R -U -S -A -D -E,
no spaces. On that site, you will see the menu
for the relay segments that will show you the
route. And Jared would correct me if I'm wrong,
probably next week when our IT lady is back,
Tori's back. The registration for those. So you
can go on the site now and look at the route
and look at all the segments and in your mind,
potentially know which segment or segments that
you're going to want to run. The registration
portion of that is not live yet, and I believe
that will be live next week. The sponsorship
information is on there now. Along with contact
information, you can see the sponsorship levels
and our contact information is on there. There's
email addresses on there if you have if anyone
has any questions regarding sponsorship. And
James, it's not we obviously we want corporate
sponsors. We want big corporate sponsors, but
that doesn't preclude my neighbor. Bob, Bob next
door, you know, I cut his grass and stuff. I'm
sure he's going to he'll go on there and donate
twenty dollars. You know, a bunch of them is
just as welcome as Home Depot, not anything against
Home Depot. We love them. But, you know, I what
Jared is really good at talking about is this
is. It's as it's as important to me to have a
million people. Go on there and donate $1 just
because now so many people are involved and so
many people are now aware that what we're trying
to do and trying to make a difference, you know,
instead of having five big corporate sponsors,
which we want, I still want the public in the
nation to know about this because that's the
only way anything is going to happen. Absolutely.
well i'll stay with you for a second brian is
there anything else you want to add before we
close out um yeah personally to jared thank you
um there's it's it's hard enough dealing with
the grief but uh to try to plan and do something
as big as what we're doing there's no way i would
have been able to do do this by myself um and
to the To the officers that are in training,
the ones that are the recruits, to the ones that
are on the job now, and to the retirees, you
go on to the foundation's main website, and the
link is there from the Relay's website. If you
don't have mental health resources, my personal
phone number is on that site. If you need to
talk to somebody, you can call me. You can call
me. I'm not any kind of mental health professional,
but I will talk to you. I promise you, I will
talk to you. There's a great organization called
the Overwatch Collective. And they actually fund
mental health resources for, just like you said,
people that are looking. the locality of some
of these people don't have the ability to even
find a counselor that's culturally competent
in their area so that's another great one in
the interim if you find yourself you know hitting
a brick wall the overwatch collective and that's
law enforcement based as well so jared what about
you anything to add before we round off no james
i just wanted to thank you for your service uh
you're a public servant And you also are a public
servant for what you do through your podcast.
The attention that you've given to this issue
of first responder mental health is huge. Thank
you for letting us talk about this to your audience.
God bless you. Yes. Ditto. Thanks a lot, James.
We appreciate you.