WEBVTT

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I'll spell that to you because it's not as you

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think, T -E -A -M -B -U -I -L -D -R .com. Welcome

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to the Behind the Shield podcast. As always,

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my name is James Gearing and this week I have

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an extremely powerful conversation for you. Brian

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Sizemore is the founder of the Lucas Foundation

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and the father of law enforcement officer Lucas

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Sizemore. Jared Murphy is a special agent in

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Homeland Security and had worked with Lucas.

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The tragedy that brought these two men together

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was Lucas's suicide in 2024. So we discuss a

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host of topics from Lucas's childhood through

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Brian's eyes, his journey into the world of law

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enforcement, Jared's path into Homeland Security,

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processing grief, the inception of the Lucas

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Foundation, the bring them home 1000 mile relay

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they'll be doing later this year, and so much

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more. Now, before we get to this incredible conversation,

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as I say every week, please just take a moment,

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go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe

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to the show, leave feedback and leave a rating.

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Every single five -star rating truly does elevate

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this podcast, therefore making it easier for

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others to find. And this is a free library of

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almost 1 ,100 episodes now. So all I ask in return

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is that you help share these incredible men and

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women's stories so I can get them to every single

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person on planet Earth who needs to hear them.

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So that being said, I introduce to you Brian

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Sizemore and Jared Murphy. Enjoy. Well, Brian

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and Jared, I want to start by saying thank you

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so, so much for taking the time and coming on

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the Behind the Shield podcast today. It's our

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pleasure, James. It's our honor. Thanks for having

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us on, James. Beautiful. All right. Well, obviously,

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there's two of you today, two different locations.

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So I'll kind of bounce back and forth between

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the two of you. Let's start with you, Brian.

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Where on planet Earth are we finding you this

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morning? I am in a small suburb south of Detroit

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called Woodhaven. Jared and I are both in the

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Detroit area. He's just on one side of town.

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I'm on the other. Brilliant. So staying with

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you, let's start at the very beginning of your

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timeline. And obviously, we're going to walk

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through to your son and the reason that we're

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having this conversation today. But tell me where

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you were born and tell me a little bit about

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your family dynamic, what your parents did, how

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many siblings. I am in the same area that I was

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born and raised in. I've never moved. Out of

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town, out of state, anything like that, I'm probably

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20 miles from where my childhood home is, where

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I grew up. I was a little town called River Rouge,

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Michigan, just outside of Detroit. Industrial

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town back in the 50s and 60s is like a location

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where shipyards and steel mills and all of that

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type of stuff was located. Great little town.

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Grew up there. Got an education. Got a good job.

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I work for AT &T. My wife is a school teacher.

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So we have a modest middle class home, middle

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class family here in Woodhaven. I'm the oldest

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of four children. I got two younger brothers

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and a younger sister. are uh still with us my

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parents are still with us uh my dad was a uh

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uh he worked for norfolk southern railway for

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gotta be 40 years i believe my mom was a homemaker

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and she had some she had some small jobs as well

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brilliant now when i think of you know that the

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rust belt and some of the other cities that were

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absolutely booming with industry and then those

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jobs were sent away mining is another example

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that's more often than not is also a kind of

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hotbed when it comes to this mental health conversation

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that we're going to have and and the opioid crisis

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really kind of blew that open with you having

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this lineage in the same place what have you

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observed your generation previous generations

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of the impact of that on your local communities

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i i think uh now we've been blessed we my wife

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and i have been blessed to obtain and be able

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to keep a good job and make a good living and

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raise a family. But that's not easy. And I firmly

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believe it takes a lot of luck sometimes. But

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when you have friends or you see communities,

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especially industrial communities that are hit

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hard and people have lost their jobs, it... it

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affects everything. It affects families, it affects

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the marriages, it affects, you know, their home,

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you know, people are losing their homes. And

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I think those things snowball to a point where

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it, I'm guessing, I don't know, personally, someone

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that it's happened to, but it probably starts

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with substance abuse. And then once you're on

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that path, if you don't get some help, it's just

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going to snowball and get worse. Absolutely.

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Well, Jared, let's jump over to you. Firstly,

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where on planet Earth are we finding you today?

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Yeah, so I'm also in the Detroit area. I'm a

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little north of Bryan. I live in a small town

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just northwest of Detroit called Franklin. Nice

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community. Brilliant. And beginning of your origin

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story, where were you born? Tell me a little

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about your family dynamic, what your parents

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did, how many siblings? Yeah, so I'm originally

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from Colorado, born and raised in the Denver

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area. Lived there until I was 18 and went away

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to college. I've got one brother. He lives in

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New York with his family. His daughter actually

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is the fourth generation University of Colorado

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student. I think she might be the only one. She

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follows me and my mom and my grandmother and

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her mom. So that's a little bit in our family.

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My mom's a nurse or was a nurse rather. Retired

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now. My father was a small business owner. I'm

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a federal agent. I've been doing law enforcement

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as a career for the last 25 years. Moved around

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a little bit. I lived in Los Angeles and New

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York. We lived in Buenos Aires, Argentina. Had

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the opportunity to see the world. Did a year

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in school in your part of the world. I lived

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in Belfast for a year in the late 90s. That's

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a little snapshot of me. Brilliant. Well, firstly,

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what took you into the world of law enforcement?

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You know, when I was a young man, In high school

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and college, this was kind of the time of Waco

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and Ruby Ridge when federal law enforcement was

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in the news a lot. And I thought that that was

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exciting. And I don't think that I was ever meant

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to be a desk job type person. I wanted something

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with adventure and excitement. And I think it

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just fit me. And when I was in college, I got

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an internship. with the U .S. Customs Service

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Office of Investigations. Did a summer internship

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there, and I knew this is what I was going to

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do as a career. Fighting crime, fighting bad

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guys, helping people, serving the country, all

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those things really spoke to me. What was your

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experience firsthand in Belfast? Because when

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I think about the 90s, in my memory being an

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Englishman, it was still quite a turbulent time

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there. Yeah, so great question, James. So I arrived

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in Belfast about a week after Oma, which was

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the last big bombing of the war and really caused

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a lot of change. And when I lived there, it was

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very divided. It still is in many ways. I don't

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think quite as much. Very policed. The military

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was still on the street. The RUC was a very aggressive

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police force for reasons I understand. And it

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was a very gritty city, in many ways similar

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to Detroit, but with a very different crime environment.

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It's interesting now, and this is an apolitical

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statement, this is just a human statement. I

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grew up on the mainland, and we were having to

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check our cars for bombs because I lived on a

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farm right next to a Ministry of Defense base.

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And, you know, there was bombings on the on the

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mainland, you know, women and children. But when

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you reverse, you know, engineer the origin of

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that hatred in the first place, you know, there's

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the potato famine and you can go back and back

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and back. Now you've got a lot of the Irish people

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standing up for what's going on in Gaza. And,

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you know, the terrorism was supported even by

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Hollywood, you know, in the IRA back in the day.

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And now the very people that were, you know,

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trying to. retake their homeland. Now this voice

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is being mirrored in 2025. So it's interesting

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watching the generation I saw struggle when I

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was younger on both sides. And now you have this

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united voice from those people speaking up for

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the oppressed. And I'm talking about the innocents,

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the women and children that are still being oppressed

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from both sides in that particular region. Yeah,

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I think it's a characteristic of Irish people

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to support the underdog. That's sort of part

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of their nature. But it's really not that new

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to me, James, because when I lived in West Belfast,

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there's murals over row houses everywhere that

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would support, you know, anti -apartheid, the

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Palestinian liberation movement and different

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organizations that sought, you know, their own

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independence and sovereignty. So to me, it doesn't

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surprise me that Irish people, you know, support

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the oppressed. Their history has really been

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colored by oppression. Exactly. I think that's

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the point is, again, a political statement. If

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we stop this generational trauma, which is like

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we were talking about when you pull industry

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from parts of America, you create this generational

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trauma. If you can stop those dominoes from falling,

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that's how you, you know, finally halt this cycle

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of hurt. And obviously hurt people hurt people.

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We understand how we got here. The question is,

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how do we now draw a line in the sand and say

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enough is enough? All right, moving on. Let's

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go back to Brian then. So Brian, as you're progressing

00:12:46.820 --> 00:12:50.200
now, you're in the logistics side of AT &T. Talk

00:12:50.200 --> 00:12:53.700
to me about the birth of Lucas and then let's

00:12:53.700 --> 00:12:59.080
talk about who he was as a little boy. So when

00:12:59.080 --> 00:13:04.110
he was born, and this is... Kind of an amusing

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story. My wife, he was born from an emergency

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C -section. She was far enough along the doctor

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had us come to the hospital. Her labor wasn't

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progressing as fast as the doctor would have

00:13:22.509 --> 00:13:25.789
liked. So they did a few things and then all

00:13:25.789 --> 00:13:30.139
of a sudden now it was coming fast. They had

00:13:30.139 --> 00:13:33.460
monitors on her. They had monitors on Lucas and

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his heart rate stopped or not stopped, started

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to drop. So split second decision, her doctor

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decided that that baby was coming out. That baby

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was coming out right now. So they had me get

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dressed, put on a gown. By the time I put that

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on and they walked me into the operating room.

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She was already cut open and he was coming out.

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It happened that fast. So he comes out and the

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story they told me is a newborn loses their body

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temperature faster if they're born cesarean than

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if it's a natural birth. So they put them under

00:14:20.879 --> 00:14:23.580
this thing. I call it a French fry lamp. It reminds

00:14:23.580 --> 00:14:26.879
me of looking at. looking over the counter at

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McDonald's because I'm actually standing. I left

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to go with him. Once that baby is born, they

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focus on mom. A whole nother team takes care

00:14:35.879 --> 00:14:39.399
of the baby. I go with him and I'm standing there

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with him sweating at this point because I'm next

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to this heat lamp that they have him under. They're

00:14:45.340 --> 00:14:51.139
trying to warm him up. And the nurse says, she

00:14:51.139 --> 00:14:54.299
tells me, he has to cry. You got to make him

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cry more. Because it helps develop his lungs.

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I didn't know what to do. This is my first child.

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I'm a brand new dad. I didn't know what to do.

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So she tells me, pull his hair. So I'm pulling

00:15:07.049 --> 00:15:10.210
his hair. And then she takes my fingers. And

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she's like, no, you have to make him cry. So

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the kid's not on the planet for five minutes.

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And here's his dad pulling his hair under this

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lamp, making him cry. So that's how he... came

00:15:24.629 --> 00:15:27.929
about to be on this earth. And then, um, normal

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childhood did everything that, uh, you know,

00:15:32.250 --> 00:15:36.370
you see on TV that a normal American boy would

00:15:36.370 --> 00:15:40.769
do sports and bicycles and skateboards and girls

00:15:40.769 --> 00:15:44.389
and, you know, went to school right here in,

00:15:44.490 --> 00:15:48.639
in Woodhaven. Went to high school, graduated

00:15:48.639 --> 00:15:50.980
high school. He had a normal childhood. Like

00:15:50.980 --> 00:15:53.799
I said, we've been blessed that both of us have

00:15:53.799 --> 00:15:57.580
always had good, stable jobs and have had a stable

00:15:57.580 --> 00:16:02.059
home. We got a very close -knit immediate family.

00:16:02.179 --> 00:16:04.299
He's got a younger brother, Evan, which he's

00:16:04.299 --> 00:16:06.960
four years younger. And then that's the only

00:16:06.960 --> 00:16:11.779
sibling. And all of my nieces and nephews, which

00:16:11.779 --> 00:16:14.279
are Luke and Evan's cousins, they're all very

00:16:14.279 --> 00:16:19.250
close, very tight -knit. What sports was he playing

00:16:19.250 --> 00:16:23.690
through the school ages? He played, we always

00:16:23.690 --> 00:16:28.509
were of the mindset to let them try anything,

00:16:28.750 --> 00:16:31.129
everything, whatever they liked. We never tried

00:16:31.129 --> 00:16:34.190
to force him into one thing or another. So he

00:16:34.190 --> 00:16:40.649
started out with trying to learn to ice skate

00:16:40.649 --> 00:16:43.570
and play hockey, which he didn't take to. He

00:16:43.570 --> 00:16:47.279
was in martial arts for a little bit. um he that

00:16:47.279 --> 00:16:51.419
really didn't stick um and then we like if even

00:16:51.419 --> 00:16:54.120
if there were things that he didn't like we were

00:16:54.120 --> 00:16:58.059
we were never uh the type of parents that made

00:16:58.059 --> 00:17:01.860
them continue to do something and because i coached

00:17:01.860 --> 00:17:06.880
for a long time and i i've seen the in in my

00:17:06.880 --> 00:17:10.200
opinion the harm it does to a child when parents

00:17:10.200 --> 00:17:14.029
are forcing them to do something that they don't

00:17:14.029 --> 00:17:16.730
want to do. And, you know, the child's just miserable.

00:17:16.809 --> 00:17:22.930
So he, he played tee ball. He wrestled. He didn't

00:17:22.930 --> 00:17:25.650
really take the bat either. So he, he ended up

00:17:25.650 --> 00:17:30.470
not wrestling, played football for years. When

00:17:30.470 --> 00:17:35.769
he got into high school, he took up golf, was

00:17:35.769 --> 00:17:39.730
pretty good at it, but, but got the interest

00:17:39.730 --> 00:17:43.630
so much. He kept The high school didn't have

00:17:43.630 --> 00:17:47.630
a golf team. And he pestered that poor athletic

00:17:47.630 --> 00:17:50.990
director so much that that athletic director

00:17:50.990 --> 00:17:53.990
finally gave in and started a golf team. And

00:17:53.990 --> 00:17:57.950
he really did like that even after high school

00:17:57.950 --> 00:17:59.829
when he was in college and even down in Atlanta.

00:18:00.029 --> 00:18:02.730
He tried to golf as much as he could. He enjoyed

00:18:02.730 --> 00:18:06.549
it. What about career aspirations as he's progressing

00:18:06.549 --> 00:18:08.430
through those school ages? What was he talking

00:18:08.430 --> 00:18:13.900
to you about wanting to become? He never law

00:18:13.900 --> 00:18:19.099
enforcement didn't come up. He he had a slight

00:18:19.099 --> 00:18:23.480
interest in veterinary medicine. He had talked

00:18:23.480 --> 00:18:26.539
about that. Nothing, nothing specific yet. I

00:18:26.539 --> 00:18:30.880
think he was trying to be open minded. I noticed

00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:35.990
we noticed the interest in law enforcement. When

00:18:35.990 --> 00:18:38.130
he was at Eastern Michigan, when he had graduated

00:18:38.130 --> 00:18:41.170
high school and he had enrolled in Eastern, I

00:18:41.170 --> 00:18:44.569
don't know if there was a course or something

00:18:44.569 --> 00:18:49.849
that he took, but that's when his family noticed

00:18:49.849 --> 00:18:53.470
it. He became interested there. A lot of us in

00:18:53.470 --> 00:18:56.609
uniform, and I've seen this from over a thousand

00:18:56.609 --> 00:18:59.690
interviews now. It's amazing how many people

00:18:59.690 --> 00:19:02.230
do have struggles from early life. And that is

00:19:02.230 --> 00:19:04.410
part of the overall equation, especially, God

00:19:04.410 --> 00:19:07.369
forbid, they end up taking their own life. When

00:19:07.369 --> 00:19:09.490
you reflect back now, obviously, you said there

00:19:09.490 --> 00:19:13.690
was a healthy healing home. Were there any other

00:19:13.690 --> 00:19:15.710
elements of his upbringing, bullying, anything

00:19:15.710 --> 00:19:17.650
like that, that you remember that might have

00:19:17.650 --> 00:19:21.269
contributed to his struggles later? No, no. He

00:19:21.269 --> 00:19:28.450
was always a very outgoing kid. He was never

00:19:28.450 --> 00:19:32.950
socially awkward or anything. He always was part

00:19:32.950 --> 00:19:36.369
of the group. He didn't have any social problems

00:19:36.369 --> 00:19:38.470
or anything like that. At least anything that

00:19:38.470 --> 00:19:41.430
we were aware of or any of the schools were aware

00:19:41.430 --> 00:19:45.509
of. The school districts here are pretty on top

00:19:45.509 --> 00:19:48.410
of that type of thing. So any child that's getting

00:19:48.410 --> 00:19:50.650
bullied at school, the parents are going to know

00:19:50.650 --> 00:19:52.450
about it. And that was never the case with him.

00:19:52.990 --> 00:19:55.329
And what about in the football or martial arts?

00:19:55.390 --> 00:19:58.390
Did he ever take any large hits when he was younger?

00:19:59.130 --> 00:20:02.869
No, nothing abnormal. I mean, you know, football

00:20:02.869 --> 00:20:04.950
is a contact sport. Hockey is a contact sport.

00:20:05.089 --> 00:20:08.829
So nothing, nothing out of the ordinary. No.

00:20:09.690 --> 00:20:13.109
So talk to me about the decision to enter law

00:20:13.109 --> 00:20:15.190
enforcement and then, you know, what that kind

00:20:15.190 --> 00:20:18.829
of on ramp was like for him. So he, like I said,

00:20:18.869 --> 00:20:23.400
when he was at Eastern, he. I can't put my finger

00:20:23.400 --> 00:20:28.160
on one thing that triggered it, that really set

00:20:28.160 --> 00:20:34.480
him off. I can tell you that when his uncle was

00:20:34.480 --> 00:20:37.980
with HSI, Homeland Security Investigations, and

00:20:37.980 --> 00:20:43.579
helped secure him the internship with the downtown

00:20:43.579 --> 00:20:49.369
Detroit office. And I think that. If he was leaning

00:20:49.369 --> 00:20:52.829
that way, once he started that internship, it

00:20:52.829 --> 00:21:02.829
was all over. As a parent, you can feel your

00:21:02.829 --> 00:21:10.119
child's excitement. Wake up wanting to go to

00:21:10.119 --> 00:21:12.920
work, wake up telling stories like what they

00:21:12.920 --> 00:21:14.640
were supposed to do today, what they were going

00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:16.839
to do tomorrow. You could just feel it. You could

00:21:16.839 --> 00:21:19.299
hear it in his voice that he enjoyed it. And

00:21:19.299 --> 00:21:25.920
we knew at some agency, some department, somewhere,

00:21:26.380 --> 00:21:31.230
that's where he was going to be. He wanted to

00:21:31.230 --> 00:21:34.150
stay with federal law enforcement at the time.

00:21:34.210 --> 00:21:36.829
I mean, the administration changed, rules changed.

00:21:36.930 --> 00:21:41.069
But at the time, the only federal agency that

00:21:41.069 --> 00:21:44.829
would hire him with no law enforcement experience,

00:21:45.089 --> 00:21:47.170
even though he had his degree, he was he was

00:21:47.170 --> 00:21:49.009
a graduate of Eastern Michigan at that time,

00:21:49.089 --> 00:21:53.170
was the Border Patrol. And that I don't think.

00:21:53.769 --> 00:21:57.470
He was ready for that path yet. So he started

00:21:57.470 --> 00:22:03.410
looking locally for police departments. There's

00:22:03.410 --> 00:22:06.230
a lot of law enforcement in my family, one of

00:22:06.230 --> 00:22:09.210
which was a was a chief at the time, would have

00:22:09.210 --> 00:22:11.390
hired him. All he had to do was say the word

00:22:11.390 --> 00:22:14.730
and would have gave him a job. But like Jared

00:22:14.730 --> 00:22:18.930
said, I think Lucas wanted the adventure and

00:22:18.930 --> 00:22:22.210
the excitement and those type of things that

00:22:22.210 --> 00:22:26.970
you. You don't get a lot of that with a small

00:22:26.970 --> 00:22:30.130
local police department. And Lucas wanted to

00:22:30.130 --> 00:22:32.950
do the adventurous things, the exciting things.

00:22:33.009 --> 00:22:38.950
So that led him to start looking at larger metropolitan

00:22:38.950 --> 00:22:44.069
police departments. I believe he just. Filled

00:22:44.069 --> 00:22:47.029
out a questionnaire. I know the Atlanta Police

00:22:47.029 --> 00:22:50.289
Department is constantly doing like hiring and

00:22:50.289 --> 00:22:52.529
job fairs and stuff like that. So he probably

00:22:52.529 --> 00:22:56.410
saw something online and applied. And then a

00:22:56.410 --> 00:22:58.630
couple of weeks after that, he got a notification

00:22:58.630 --> 00:23:02.690
to come down for testing and physicals and stuff

00:23:02.690 --> 00:23:06.470
like that. He passed all of that. And then maybe

00:23:06.470 --> 00:23:08.650
a week or two after that, they offered him a

00:23:08.650 --> 00:23:11.529
position and he took it. That's where he ended

00:23:11.529 --> 00:23:15.759
up. So when he was assigned, kind of what was

00:23:15.759 --> 00:23:17.859
the kind of area that he was working in? And

00:23:17.859 --> 00:23:19.720
then also what were the shifts that he was working

00:23:19.720 --> 00:23:26.920
at that point? So he, I believe it's during their

00:23:26.920 --> 00:23:31.319
field training, they get to preference. Jared,

00:23:31.460 --> 00:23:32.960
you can help me with this. I don't know what

00:23:32.960 --> 00:23:34.960
the laws are in other states, but in the state

00:23:34.960 --> 00:23:43.240
of Georgia, he had to be sworn in. Before the

00:23:43.240 --> 00:23:46.559
state of Georgia would let him go on the street

00:23:46.559 --> 00:23:49.799
with a with a gun or a taser or any of that.

00:23:49.880 --> 00:23:54.019
So he had finished the academic academy, so to

00:23:54.019 --> 00:23:57.319
speak, was sworn in as a police officer and then

00:23:57.319 --> 00:24:01.519
was on the road with a training officer for months.

00:24:02.359 --> 00:24:04.960
And I think it was during that time they were

00:24:04.960 --> 00:24:08.980
allowed to preference where they wanted to go

00:24:08.980 --> 00:24:12.299
now in Atlanta. They don't call them precincts.

00:24:12.299 --> 00:24:14.579
They call them zones. I believe there are six.

00:24:15.619 --> 00:24:22.559
And he was smart enough to research that zone

00:24:22.559 --> 00:24:27.299
four was the I don't know how to say this without

00:24:27.299 --> 00:24:32.279
just saying it. It's not the nicest area. Very

00:24:32.279 --> 00:24:37.140
busy. A lot of calls, a lot of crime, a lot of

00:24:37.140 --> 00:24:42.220
you name it. But he also. was smart enough to

00:24:42.220 --> 00:24:45.180
find out that a lot of the command structure

00:24:45.180 --> 00:24:49.680
was promoted out of that zone because they see

00:24:49.680 --> 00:24:52.819
everything. For example, like some of the other

00:24:52.819 --> 00:24:55.180
zones are like more downtown. It's, it's a lot

00:24:55.180 --> 00:24:57.720
of traffic and, and he didn't want to do that.

00:24:57.779 --> 00:25:00.559
He wanted to be like Jared says, chasing the

00:25:00.559 --> 00:25:03.900
bad guys. So that's where he went. Yeah. He got

00:25:03.900 --> 00:25:06.420
what he wanted. So, and then he worked the evening

00:25:06.420 --> 00:25:11.680
watch, which was about. He's starting about 3

00:25:11.680 --> 00:25:14.579
o 'clock in the afternoon. It's like 3 to 2 a

00:25:14.579 --> 00:25:19.099
.m. thereabouts. Okay. By the time he's at the

00:25:19.099 --> 00:25:23.339
zone, getting his car, getting his loaded up,

00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:25.160
getting his bag and all of that, it's about 3

00:25:25.160 --> 00:25:27.799
o 'clock in the afternoon. Okay. Well, Jared,

00:25:27.900 --> 00:25:29.779
do you want to jump in and kind of talk about

00:25:29.779 --> 00:25:34.119
where you and Lucas met? Sure. Yeah. So Luke

00:25:34.119 --> 00:25:38.099
did an internship with my office, the HSI field

00:25:38.099 --> 00:25:41.730
office in Detroit. in the summer of 2021 and

00:25:41.730 --> 00:25:44.089
he was assigned to our global trade investigations

00:25:44.089 --> 00:25:48.410
group they handle investigations of sensitive

00:25:48.410 --> 00:25:51.930
technology and military hardware and weapons

00:25:51.930 --> 00:25:54.490
preventing those from leaving the country to

00:25:54.490 --> 00:25:56.190
get in the hands of our adversaries countries

00:25:56.190 --> 00:26:00.450
like china and russia iran and north korea and

00:26:00.450 --> 00:26:04.890
he was very eager very enthusiastic about the

00:26:04.890 --> 00:26:09.069
job you could tell that he was kind of mesmerized

00:26:09.069 --> 00:26:11.630
with the opportunity and had a goal in his life

00:26:11.630 --> 00:26:14.410
of becoming an agent. And I am confident that

00:26:14.410 --> 00:26:16.970
if things worked out differently, we would have

00:26:16.970 --> 00:26:20.809
hired him probably by now, if not sooner. And

00:26:20.809 --> 00:26:22.609
at the time, he actually potentially could have

00:26:22.609 --> 00:26:24.369
been hired by us. We weren't hiring at the time.

00:26:24.390 --> 00:26:27.990
There wasn't an announcement. But I think had

00:26:27.990 --> 00:26:29.269
there been an announcement, he would have been

00:26:29.269 --> 00:26:32.220
very competitive with his degree. You know, when

00:26:32.220 --> 00:26:34.319
you do an internship, we like the young people.

00:26:34.380 --> 00:26:36.440
It's a learning opportunity where they get exposed

00:26:36.440 --> 00:26:40.160
to the job. And, you know, things turned out

00:26:40.160 --> 00:26:41.200
differently. Probably would have been hired on

00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:46.259
already. Well, Brian, back to you. As he's progressing

00:26:46.259 --> 00:26:51.500
through this young career, were there any changes

00:26:51.500 --> 00:26:53.460
in behavior? I don't want to say warning signs

00:26:53.460 --> 00:26:54.960
because that almost sounds like, oh, we should

00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:57.420
have known. But changes in behavior when you

00:26:57.420 --> 00:27:03.839
reflect back now? No, not. Not changes that I

00:27:03.839 --> 00:27:08.180
would I would say were leading to his death.

00:27:09.460 --> 00:27:14.920
I noticed I just noticed a young man starting

00:27:14.920 --> 00:27:21.859
his life and starting his career and and. Struggling,

00:27:21.940 --> 00:27:25.519
probably like all of us did, like, you know,

00:27:25.519 --> 00:27:28.309
the. The Atlanta Police Department has a wonderful

00:27:28.309 --> 00:27:32.769
benefit for their recruits. They actually built,

00:27:32.950 --> 00:27:36.190
the Atlanta Police Foundation built a, I want

00:27:36.190 --> 00:27:39.369
to say it's four story apartment building. So

00:27:39.369 --> 00:27:41.089
as they're going through the academy, doing their

00:27:41.089 --> 00:27:45.170
field training, they have a very low rent apartment

00:27:45.170 --> 00:27:48.910
offered to them, fully furnished, pretty much

00:27:48.910 --> 00:27:50.869
just bring your clothes and go get yourself some

00:27:50.869 --> 00:27:54.250
groceries. He had the foresight to know that.

00:27:54.859 --> 00:27:57.099
And once he was done with his field training

00:27:57.099 --> 00:28:00.220
and got posted, he's going to have to get an

00:28:00.220 --> 00:28:03.859
apartment. So Atlanta is just like any other

00:28:03.859 --> 00:28:08.799
metro city, big metro city, expensive as heck

00:28:08.799 --> 00:28:12.200
to live downtown, but you're closer or you live

00:28:12.200 --> 00:28:15.259
45 minutes outside of town. Your rent is cheaper,

00:28:15.359 --> 00:28:17.460
but you've got to deal with the commute and Atlanta

00:28:17.460 --> 00:28:21.980
traffic is horrible. So his apartment was was

00:28:21.980 --> 00:28:25.359
in Atlanta proper, but. you know, outside a little

00:28:25.359 --> 00:28:31.259
bit. Nice, nice one bedroom with an office apartment.

00:28:32.220 --> 00:28:34.839
But he was, you know, he was dealing with all

00:28:34.839 --> 00:28:40.440
of that. Like he had to figure out, okay, I got

00:28:40.440 --> 00:28:42.799
to figure out a budget. I got to get myself groceries.

00:28:42.960 --> 00:28:47.019
I got to get, I got to pay my rent. Like he lived

00:28:47.019 --> 00:28:50.700
at home. I worked for AT &T. So his, his cell

00:28:50.700 --> 00:28:55.880
phone, his internet, his Entertainment, his satellite

00:28:55.880 --> 00:28:58.859
TV, I took care of all that because I get a discount

00:28:58.859 --> 00:29:04.619
on it. So he had to grow up really fast because

00:29:04.619 --> 00:29:07.680
now he's got all of that stuff on his plate.

00:29:08.819 --> 00:29:11.779
And I could tell, and this is probably true for

00:29:11.779 --> 00:29:15.799
a lot of young, not just law enforcement officers,

00:29:15.859 --> 00:29:17.599
young people entering the workplace. I could

00:29:17.599 --> 00:29:21.480
tell the first thing that you scratch out of

00:29:21.480 --> 00:29:24.420
your budget is the fun stuff. or the stuff that

00:29:24.420 --> 00:29:27.559
you're trying to eat. So he would make comments

00:29:27.559 --> 00:29:30.279
like this certain McDonald's give you 99 cent

00:29:30.279 --> 00:29:33.420
cheeseburgers on Tuesdays. So things like that,

00:29:33.500 --> 00:29:35.960
you know, like, okay, the kid doesn't have a

00:29:35.960 --> 00:29:37.779
lot of money for groceries. So he's going to

00:29:37.779 --> 00:29:39.880
McDonald's to get 99 cent cheeseburgers. You

00:29:39.880 --> 00:29:41.839
know, I can read between the lines, but nothing

00:29:41.839 --> 00:29:49.619
upsetting to the point that we ever thought that

00:29:49.619 --> 00:29:52.440
there was something wrong. that is one of the

00:29:52.440 --> 00:29:55.420
things that, that haunts me is like, what, what,

00:29:55.460 --> 00:30:00.819
what did I not see? It's been really interesting

00:30:00.819 --> 00:30:03.500
learning from all these people, yourself and

00:30:03.500 --> 00:30:05.440
then, you know, the, the lived experience stories,

00:30:05.619 --> 00:30:08.279
the people that survived suicide attempts, excuse

00:30:08.279 --> 00:30:10.740
me, suicide attempts, the psychologist, psychiatrist,

00:30:10.960 --> 00:30:15.279
I mean, all these layers. And when I think back

00:30:15.279 --> 00:30:18.140
to how suicide was presented to us collectively,

00:30:18.240 --> 00:30:21.869
when we were younger, It was, well, it's cowardly,

00:30:21.869 --> 00:30:24.049
it's selfish. How could you think of your family?

00:30:24.950 --> 00:30:26.690
And then you actually listen to people that have

00:30:26.690 --> 00:30:28.549
been there, which arguably is probably what we

00:30:28.549 --> 00:30:31.430
should have done all along. And you realize that

00:30:31.430 --> 00:30:34.930
through... the perfect storm of all the contributing

00:30:34.930 --> 00:30:36.750
elements, and I'll list them doesn't mean it's

00:30:36.750 --> 00:30:39.490
pertinent to Luca specifically, but so many of

00:30:39.490 --> 00:30:42.289
them unaddressed childhood trauma, sleep deprivation

00:30:42.289 --> 00:30:45.130
is a huge one, organizational stress and betrayal,

00:30:45.430 --> 00:30:48.269
the side effects of psych meds, alcohol, I mean,

00:30:48.309 --> 00:30:50.069
you know, and then you've got this massive, like

00:30:50.069 --> 00:30:53.109
I said, perfect storm of lots of factors rather

00:30:53.109 --> 00:30:54.950
than one. Oh, it was because you had that one

00:30:54.950 --> 00:30:57.210
call. Yeah, well, we have lots and lots of calls.

00:30:57.289 --> 00:30:59.869
That's not the only thing. But when you hear

00:30:59.869 --> 00:31:03.190
the voice of these men and women, their reality

00:31:03.190 --> 00:31:06.589
is literally distorted. And that voice in their

00:31:06.589 --> 00:31:09.309
head is telling them, you know, this is more

00:31:09.309 --> 00:31:11.589
so, I think more pertinent when it's someone

00:31:11.589 --> 00:31:13.509
who's actually, you know, got young children

00:31:13.509 --> 00:31:15.829
and that kind of thing. You are a burden to your

00:31:15.829 --> 00:31:18.369
family. You are the reason that your family is

00:31:18.369 --> 00:31:20.450
feeling pain. And if you just remove yourself

00:31:20.450 --> 00:31:22.509
because you swore to die for strangers, well,

00:31:22.549 --> 00:31:24.710
surely you can die for your loved ones. And you've

00:31:24.710 --> 00:31:27.230
got the means of it right on your hip. You know,

00:31:27.250 --> 00:31:32.140
now you've got this horrendous. Arguably psychosis

00:31:32.140 --> 00:31:34.900
because all these factors have literally rewired

00:31:34.900 --> 00:31:38.119
the brain. And if that person truly believes

00:31:38.119 --> 00:31:40.859
that and or there's this element of I just want

00:31:40.859 --> 00:31:44.019
this pain to stop as well, it's combined. Now,

00:31:44.019 --> 00:31:47.259
arguably, it's courageous and selfless because

00:31:47.259 --> 00:31:50.819
they once again sacrifice their life for someone

00:31:50.819 --> 00:31:54.740
that they, in this case, love. So what is so

00:31:54.740 --> 00:31:57.799
sad is now understanding this eight and a half

00:31:57.799 --> 00:32:00.839
years later. this needs to be front and center

00:32:00.839 --> 00:32:02.920
if you are feeling like a burden if you hear

00:32:02.920 --> 00:32:04.900
people say you know i'm a piece of shit or you

00:32:04.900 --> 00:32:07.599
know my kids are scared of me whatever the thing

00:32:07.599 --> 00:32:10.299
is that is something that we really need to be

00:32:10.299 --> 00:32:12.160
talking about because if you can pull them back

00:32:12.160 --> 00:32:16.059
into a healthier mind again none of these people

00:32:16.059 --> 00:32:17.700
would actually go through with taking their own

00:32:17.700 --> 00:32:20.559
life so with that all being said were there any

00:32:20.559 --> 00:32:23.059
elements of that when you reflect back now a

00:32:23.059 --> 00:32:28.490
kind of um guilt shame element No, I do remember

00:32:28.490 --> 00:32:36.630
he had to adjust to the sleep patterns. When

00:32:36.630 --> 00:32:40.490
he was done with his field training and he got

00:32:40.490 --> 00:32:45.349
posted in zone four, he was never used to working

00:32:45.349 --> 00:32:50.569
afternoon or night type shift. And he was tired

00:32:50.569 --> 00:32:54.440
a lot. So I work. crazy shifts like that. And

00:32:54.440 --> 00:32:59.220
I told him, I said, Luke, at least what works

00:32:59.220 --> 00:33:02.960
for me is I have to treat that shift like it's

00:33:02.960 --> 00:33:06.480
a day shift. Wake up an hour before you got to

00:33:06.480 --> 00:33:08.819
go to work, just like you would in the morning,

00:33:08.980 --> 00:33:12.960
go to work, come home, stay awake for a few hours,

00:33:13.039 --> 00:33:15.180
just like you would in the evening, and then

00:33:15.180 --> 00:33:17.440
eat something and go to bed. And once you...

00:33:17.720 --> 00:33:20.440
get into that routine and you keep doing it,

00:33:20.500 --> 00:33:24.420
your body will adjust. And he was coming out

00:33:24.420 --> 00:33:31.140
of that. Because ironically, our shifts overlapped.

00:33:31.279 --> 00:33:34.119
I would be coming home from work when he was

00:33:34.119 --> 00:33:37.900
going in and vice versa. So I pretty much talked

00:33:37.900 --> 00:33:39.839
to him at the beginning of his shift and at the

00:33:39.839 --> 00:33:43.750
end of his shift almost every day. And I could

00:33:43.750 --> 00:33:46.769
tell, I could tell by his voice that, you know,

00:33:46.769 --> 00:33:48.950
he was sleeping better and he sounded better.

00:33:49.049 --> 00:33:55.349
So I don't think that was a factor at, you know,

00:33:55.369 --> 00:33:58.049
at the end there. I really, like I said, there

00:33:58.049 --> 00:34:02.230
was no note. There was, the detectives went through

00:34:02.230 --> 00:34:05.049
everything, you know, you know what the procedure

00:34:05.049 --> 00:34:07.029
is. They went through everything, his phone,

00:34:07.130 --> 00:34:10.289
his tablets, you know, email, everything. And

00:34:10.289 --> 00:34:14.039
there was nothing, nothing. Well, let's talk

00:34:14.039 --> 00:34:18.320
about that day then. So January 9th, 2024, you

00:34:18.320 --> 00:34:20.579
know, the events leading up to, and then, you

00:34:20.579 --> 00:34:25.119
know, let's unpack how you and your family even

00:34:25.119 --> 00:34:27.420
process the grief of losing your beloved son.

00:34:29.900 --> 00:34:33.159
So I was just, it started like a normal day.

00:34:33.380 --> 00:34:38.719
I remember University of Michigan's football

00:34:38.719 --> 00:34:41.420
team played in the national championship game

00:34:41.420 --> 00:34:45.769
the night before. And him and one of his best

00:34:45.769 --> 00:34:51.329
friends walked over to a little hamburger beer

00:34:51.329 --> 00:34:53.429
place, like within walking distance of their

00:34:53.429 --> 00:34:56.750
apartment. They watched like half the game and

00:34:56.750 --> 00:34:59.269
came back to their apartment, watched the rest

00:34:59.269 --> 00:35:03.150
of the game. And that was like the last we had

00:35:03.150 --> 00:35:07.949
heard of him. At that point, I have to get up

00:35:07.949 --> 00:35:11.440
to go to work at like 3 .30 in the morning. long

00:35:11.440 --> 00:35:18.460
asleep and, uh, got up, went to work and it was,

00:35:18.460 --> 00:35:23.179
it was actually 5 0 6 AM. Um, I, I got a routine.

00:35:23.260 --> 00:35:26.440
Like I walk in, I walk in the building, I put

00:35:26.440 --> 00:35:31.320
my stuff down on this table and, um, my phone

00:35:31.320 --> 00:35:35.900
keys, that type of thing. And I go out in the

00:35:35.900 --> 00:35:38.400
back of our building and start getting my day

00:35:38.400 --> 00:35:43.050
going. And My one coworker, we're usually the

00:35:43.050 --> 00:35:45.730
first two in the building. She comes running

00:35:45.730 --> 00:35:49.710
with my phone. She said, Evans called you like

00:35:49.710 --> 00:35:52.590
four times. He's blowing your phone up. Now,

00:35:52.610 --> 00:35:57.329
that's that's not at the time was not odd because

00:35:57.329 --> 00:36:00.889
he he played college football. Their practices

00:36:00.889 --> 00:36:04.989
start started at 6 a .m. So he was awake and

00:36:04.989 --> 00:36:09.010
I just assumed he, you know, something was wrong

00:36:09.010 --> 00:36:11.190
with his car. You know, something silly like

00:36:11.190 --> 00:36:16.010
that. So when I called him back and he finally

00:36:16.010 --> 00:36:18.909
answered the phone, he he says, Dad, you got

00:36:18.909 --> 00:36:22.050
to sit down. And I said, what are you talking

00:36:22.050 --> 00:36:24.369
about? He said, Dad, you have to sit down. And

00:36:24.369 --> 00:36:27.610
I said, Evan, just fucking tell me. And he said,

00:36:27.630 --> 00:36:32.429
Luke's dead. And I say this because I don't I've

00:36:32.429 --> 00:36:36.489
never I've never asked Evan, but like your your

00:36:36.489 --> 00:36:41.510
brain. kind of does what it wants to do and what

00:36:41.510 --> 00:36:44.730
I heard come out of his mouth was that he actually

00:36:44.730 --> 00:36:51.769
accidentally shot himself so I tried and and

00:36:51.769 --> 00:36:54.949
I didn't even realize that there was questions

00:36:54.949 --> 00:36:57.869
is why Evan was calling me and not my wife well

00:36:57.869 --> 00:37:01.750
we found out that uh they had tried to call her

00:37:01.750 --> 00:37:05.389
um I don't believe they tried to call me I don't

00:37:05.389 --> 00:37:07.619
believe Police department tried to call me and

00:37:07.619 --> 00:37:11.320
they must have had Evan as a contact. So they

00:37:11.320 --> 00:37:19.960
called him. So somewhere around 4, 4 a .m., 4,

00:37:20.039 --> 00:37:24.420
15 a .m., he went into his shower and started

00:37:24.420 --> 00:37:27.179
the shower, got in the shower and put a handgun

00:37:27.179 --> 00:37:29.119
in his mouth and pulled the trigger, shot himself.

00:37:32.320 --> 00:37:35.440
So now I call my wife. I looked at my coworker.

00:37:35.670 --> 00:37:38.469
I said, I got to go. And she could tell something

00:37:38.469 --> 00:37:44.309
bad had happened. So I called Marie and she was

00:37:44.309 --> 00:37:48.789
like incoherent. I couldn't even understand what

00:37:48.789 --> 00:37:51.730
she was saying. So I just told her I'm on my

00:37:51.730 --> 00:37:55.989
way home right now. So I left, got in my truck.

00:37:56.090 --> 00:37:58.710
It's about a half hour, 35 minutes away. I called

00:37:58.710 --> 00:38:01.630
Evan back and told him because he was still at

00:38:01.630 --> 00:38:04.380
school. I said. Drop everything you're doing

00:38:04.380 --> 00:38:09.960
and get your butt home. Because, you know, obviously

00:38:09.960 --> 00:38:13.039
we needed people at the house. I didn't still

00:38:13.039 --> 00:38:15.239
didn't know what all was going to happen or any

00:38:15.239 --> 00:38:20.760
of that. So when I got home, I go through the

00:38:20.760 --> 00:38:23.679
garage into the house through the entry door.

00:38:23.760 --> 00:38:27.519
And I'm sure of it that Marie was still standing

00:38:27.519 --> 00:38:29.820
in the spot she was standing when I talked to

00:38:29.820 --> 00:38:42.829
her a half hour before. I'm sorry. Take your

00:38:42.829 --> 00:38:50.510
time, brother. There's no rush at all. The sound

00:38:50.510 --> 00:38:59.349
of his mom. I can't get that out of my head.

00:39:00.190 --> 00:39:05.210
Just the pain coming out of her. I still couldn't

00:39:05.210 --> 00:39:10.619
understand what she was saying. On the way home,

00:39:10.639 --> 00:39:13.440
I had looked for flights. I couldn't, there was

00:39:13.440 --> 00:39:18.559
no flights until the afternoon. So I looked at

00:39:18.559 --> 00:39:21.039
her, I said, I'm not, I'm not waiting. I'm going

00:39:21.039 --> 00:39:23.420
to Atlanta right now. I'm leaving right now.

00:39:24.719 --> 00:39:29.889
Her mother lives with us, which I don't. really

00:39:29.889 --> 00:39:32.809
think was the case, but she, Marie was not going

00:39:32.809 --> 00:39:35.329
to be in any kind of condition to go down there

00:39:35.329 --> 00:39:37.989
and see him or see that. And she told me, I can't

00:39:37.989 --> 00:39:40.849
go, I can't go see him like that. And I said,

00:39:40.869 --> 00:39:42.530
okay, I'm going. I said, I'm not waiting for

00:39:42.530 --> 00:39:46.690
nobody. I grabbed what I had laying around and

00:39:46.690 --> 00:39:49.929
jumped in my truck. And by probably quarter after

00:39:49.929 --> 00:39:54.650
six, I was on my way to Atlanta to go get them.

00:39:55.150 --> 00:39:59.280
So James, at that point, I still had not had

00:39:59.280 --> 00:40:03.880
any kind of confirmation from anybody. The only

00:40:03.880 --> 00:40:06.019
person I heard that from at that point was Evan.

00:40:06.440 --> 00:40:14.699
So I was kind of in the dark still. So as I'm

00:40:14.699 --> 00:40:18.780
driving to Atlanta, I was probably in the Toledo

00:40:18.780 --> 00:40:23.639
area. And this is actually a point that I bring

00:40:23.639 --> 00:40:27.719
up to. uh the recruits at the academy class when

00:40:27.719 --> 00:40:32.780
i go speak to them is like i knew his friends

00:40:32.780 --> 00:40:35.300
i knew i knew their names because he talked about

00:40:35.300 --> 00:40:36.980
them all the time i didn't have any of their

00:40:36.980 --> 00:40:41.559
phone numbers so i didn't know who to call um

00:40:41.559 --> 00:40:45.059
his one roommate um i did have his number but

00:40:45.059 --> 00:40:49.739
he was no longer with apd so i had no idea of

00:40:49.739 --> 00:40:52.420
who to try to get a hold of and it just struck

00:40:52.420 --> 00:40:56.739
me to call the desk sergeant. I called the desk

00:40:56.739 --> 00:40:59.860
sergeant at zone four of Atlanta Police Department

00:40:59.860 --> 00:41:03.019
and she answered the phone. I never did get that

00:41:03.019 --> 00:41:07.980
young lady's name. I'm sure whatever the technology

00:41:07.980 --> 00:41:13.440
is, my caller ID came up and she said, Sizemore,

00:41:13.519 --> 00:41:17.099
Sizemore, we're getting these reports. These

00:41:17.099 --> 00:41:20.289
reports are coming in. Are you okay? And I said,

00:41:20.329 --> 00:41:23.670
ma 'am, I said, this is Brian Sizemore. I'm Lucas's

00:41:23.670 --> 00:41:26.889
dad. I said, I'm getting the same reports. I'm

00:41:26.889 --> 00:41:30.289
in my truck on my way to Atlanta right now. And

00:41:30.289 --> 00:41:35.210
she said, OK, Mr. Sizemore, Major Clay is on

00:41:35.210 --> 00:41:38.769
his way to the scene and he'll call you as soon

00:41:38.769 --> 00:41:44.320
as he's got some information. And I would say

00:41:44.320 --> 00:41:47.619
about a half hour after that, it wasn't Major

00:41:47.619 --> 00:41:49.820
Clay that called me. It was Chief Shearbaum of

00:41:49.820 --> 00:41:51.960
the Atlanta Police Department called me and he

00:41:51.960 --> 00:41:54.019
was the one that confirmed that Lucas was dead.

00:41:55.000 --> 00:41:58.880
He had just left the scene. He was on his way

00:41:58.880 --> 00:42:01.980
to Zone 4. He wanted to be there for their roll

00:42:01.980 --> 00:42:05.920
call that morning because word was starting to

00:42:05.920 --> 00:42:10.059
get out. I'm sure it was over the radio and that

00:42:10.059 --> 00:42:12.019
type of stuff. So he wanted to be there to let

00:42:12.019 --> 00:42:16.889
them all know. And then throughout the day, the

00:42:16.889 --> 00:42:21.530
chief himself probably called me at least 12

00:42:21.530 --> 00:42:24.070
times to make sure I was okay, asked me where

00:42:24.070 --> 00:42:28.190
I was. I got phone calls from the chaplains.

00:42:31.750 --> 00:42:38.530
Major Clay called. And that's on top of having

00:42:38.530 --> 00:42:44.260
to, now I got to start calling. My family and

00:42:44.260 --> 00:42:49.760
like Marie knew, Evan knew, but I had to call

00:42:49.760 --> 00:42:52.280
my mom and dad. I had to call my sister. I had

00:42:52.280 --> 00:42:54.599
to call his cousins, the aunts and uncles. I

00:42:54.599 --> 00:42:57.360
had to call all these family members and tell

00:42:57.360 --> 00:43:03.380
them. I had to call Paul and tell him. And it

00:43:03.380 --> 00:43:10.000
just sucked. That was hard. The whole day was.

00:43:10.730 --> 00:43:15.809
unbelievably hard still is so talk to me about

00:43:15.809 --> 00:43:18.630
the next few weeks i mean you know you have this

00:43:18.630 --> 00:43:22.570
jarring loss um from the from the family point

00:43:22.570 --> 00:43:25.349
of view first as far as simply dealing with grief

00:43:25.349 --> 00:43:27.690
you know what when you reflect back now are the

00:43:27.690 --> 00:43:29.789
things that you guys did well and what were the

00:43:29.789 --> 00:43:31.329
things that you would do differently possibly

00:43:31.329 --> 00:43:39.650
um it was i that's that's a hard one to answer

00:43:39.650 --> 00:43:46.199
i And so I was in Atlanta for, I want to say

00:43:46.199 --> 00:43:52.159
it was four, maybe five days. And I'm grateful

00:43:52.159 --> 00:43:59.760
that his classmates and his friends were able

00:43:59.760 --> 00:44:08.079
to help me. And this was all new to me, like

00:44:08.079 --> 00:44:11.389
I said. My sister and brothers are still alive.

00:44:11.510 --> 00:44:13.670
My mom and dad are still alive. I've never had

00:44:13.670 --> 00:44:16.130
to make funeral arrangements for anybody. And

00:44:16.130 --> 00:44:18.929
being that he was out of state, it was almost

00:44:18.929 --> 00:44:21.449
like having to make two sets of arrangements.

00:44:22.730 --> 00:44:26.429
He, of course, went to the medical examiner's

00:44:26.429 --> 00:44:31.190
office. I had to make arrangements for him to

00:44:31.190 --> 00:44:33.969
be picked up from there and taken to a funeral

00:44:33.969 --> 00:44:38.340
home in Atlanta so they could prep him. to bring

00:44:38.340 --> 00:44:43.780
them on a flight to Detroit. Um, when, when I

00:44:43.780 --> 00:44:47.679
finally did get to Atlanta, the, the, uh, the

00:44:47.679 --> 00:44:49.619
chief had the chief and the police foundation

00:44:49.619 --> 00:44:52.320
had me put up in a hotel and they, they took

00:44:52.320 --> 00:44:57.320
so good care of me. I, they just alleviated all

00:44:57.320 --> 00:45:02.639
that extra hassle for me. Um, they, they asked

00:45:02.639 --> 00:45:04.280
the questions that I knew that they were going

00:45:04.280 --> 00:45:08.570
to ask and, and, uh, He reassured me that I would

00:45:08.570 --> 00:45:11.650
get his badge and his belongings and stuff after

00:45:11.650 --> 00:45:13.949
they were done with, with what they had to do.

00:45:14.030 --> 00:45:17.329
And then I had to go through the process of the

00:45:17.329 --> 00:45:21.590
next morning. I had to go, I had to go clean

00:45:21.590 --> 00:45:25.449
out his apartment. I had to, I had to package

00:45:25.449 --> 00:45:31.469
up his clothes and, and that, I don't know if

00:45:31.469 --> 00:45:34.489
it would have been better or worse. If I had

00:45:34.489 --> 00:45:36.650
a family member with me when I walked into that

00:45:36.650 --> 00:45:39.389
apartment, because that's I walked in there,

00:45:39.429 --> 00:45:42.969
I could still smell him. I could smell his cologne.

00:45:43.070 --> 00:45:45.250
I could smell his deodorant. I could smell what

00:45:45.250 --> 00:45:47.969
he cooked the night before. And that I kind of

00:45:47.969 --> 00:45:50.949
lost it a little bit when I walked in there.

00:45:51.050 --> 00:45:55.550
And then like I immediately go into get things

00:45:55.550 --> 00:45:59.489
done mode and started. Packaging up his clothes

00:45:59.489 --> 00:46:02.670
and everything and like filled up my truck and

00:46:02.670 --> 00:46:08.250
filled up his car and the next day we got him

00:46:08.250 --> 00:46:11.150
from the medical examiner and took his remains

00:46:11.150 --> 00:46:15.510
out to the funeral home where they prepped him.

00:46:17.570 --> 00:46:22.989
Sometimes I, it may have helped me to have a

00:46:22.989 --> 00:46:24.730
family member with me when I was down there,

00:46:24.789 --> 00:46:27.460
but then on. The other hand, I don't know. I

00:46:27.460 --> 00:46:32.199
mean, I was able to get it done. And for lack

00:46:32.199 --> 00:46:34.260
of better words, there wasn't anyone in my way

00:46:34.260 --> 00:46:39.699
or telling me do this or do that. I was pretty

00:46:39.699 --> 00:46:43.780
much all business. So down there, I don't think

00:46:43.780 --> 00:46:47.460
I had a whole lot of time to grieve because I

00:46:47.460 --> 00:46:52.619
was so almost overwhelmed with everything that

00:46:52.619 --> 00:46:56.320
I had to do. Just to get him home. Now, luckily,

00:46:56.440 --> 00:47:02.380
I came home and his flight was going to be a

00:47:02.380 --> 00:47:05.280
couple of days later. So then when I got home,

00:47:05.699 --> 00:47:09.559
like I had drive back home, I pulled up. You

00:47:09.559 --> 00:47:12.039
couldn't park on my street. There were so many

00:47:12.039 --> 00:47:17.219
people here, friends, family. On one hand, that

00:47:17.219 --> 00:47:19.099
helped. But then on the other hand, I was tired

00:47:19.099 --> 00:47:25.469
and I just wanted to sleep. And Marie was just,

00:47:25.650 --> 00:47:31.750
it's so, it's painful to me to see her pain.

00:47:33.030 --> 00:47:36.909
And Evan has really struggled too. His only brother

00:47:36.909 --> 00:47:43.929
is gone. And again, I haven't had to deal with

00:47:43.929 --> 00:47:47.030
this kind of grief. So I don't know if we're

00:47:47.030 --> 00:47:50.969
doing it right or not. I can only tell you how

00:47:50.969 --> 00:47:56.800
we're doing it. You know, every day, every day,

00:47:56.880 --> 00:48:01.039
something will trigger me to get emotional. And

00:48:01.039 --> 00:48:06.360
sometimes it's silly things like, you know, a

00:48:06.360 --> 00:48:11.219
certain song I'll hear or the smell of some kind

00:48:11.219 --> 00:48:13.780
of food that he liked or, you know, something

00:48:13.780 --> 00:48:17.360
silly like that. But I don't think I'll ever

00:48:17.360 --> 00:48:21.239
get over it. I want to bring Jared in, but just

00:48:21.239 --> 00:48:25.050
one more question. You seem to have two kind

00:48:25.050 --> 00:48:28.610
of paths when this is the reason that we lose

00:48:28.610 --> 00:48:31.289
someone. Either A, you get these families that,

00:48:31.309 --> 00:48:32.789
you know, they put it out there. This is what

00:48:32.789 --> 00:48:34.650
happened. And I think that is the conversation

00:48:34.650 --> 00:48:36.980
that we need to have. And then there's still

00:48:36.980 --> 00:48:38.719
this other path where people kind of want to

00:48:38.719 --> 00:48:40.420
keep it hush hush. And that's where the stigma

00:48:40.420 --> 00:48:43.199
comes in. And we just lost another FDNY firefighter

00:48:43.199 --> 00:48:45.460
a couple of days ago. And I happened to find

00:48:45.460 --> 00:48:47.599
out through a page that had all these, you know,

00:48:47.619 --> 00:48:49.099
helpline numbers attached to it and everything.

00:48:49.179 --> 00:48:51.880
Oh, OK. So it was a suicide. But all the official

00:48:51.880 --> 00:48:54.679
notifications was nothing mentioned. Every time

00:48:54.679 --> 00:48:57.059
we just see, oh, someone someone died suddenly.

00:48:57.630 --> 00:49:00.929
You know, then then we can read between the lines,

00:49:00.989 --> 00:49:03.369
but it's never actually put out there. So did

00:49:03.369 --> 00:49:05.909
you encounter any kind of stigma in the arena

00:49:05.909 --> 00:49:08.409
that you were in or was it actually received

00:49:08.409 --> 00:49:14.590
the way it should have been? I. So when I the

00:49:14.590 --> 00:49:18.030
the within I would say within a half hour after

00:49:18.030 --> 00:49:22.309
I so I drove right from Detroit to Atlanta, only

00:49:22.309 --> 00:49:25.579
time only thing I stopped for was gas. I got

00:49:25.579 --> 00:49:28.260
to Marietta, which is just north of Atlanta.

00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:32.440
Chief told me to pull into the McDonald's. He

00:49:32.440 --> 00:49:34.260
called me, told me to pull into McDonald's. When

00:49:34.260 --> 00:49:37.920
I got there, there were two police cars. One

00:49:37.920 --> 00:49:44.679
was his training officer and another patrolman

00:49:44.679 --> 00:49:48.519
and then his best friend. So his best friend,

00:49:48.559 --> 00:49:50.719
they didn't want me to drive no more. His best

00:49:50.719 --> 00:49:55.159
friend drove my truck. who was another APD officer,

00:49:55.280 --> 00:49:58.059
and then the training officer and the other patrolman,

00:49:58.159 --> 00:50:00.920
they took the police cars, bracketed us, took

00:50:00.920 --> 00:50:04.800
us right downtown to the hotel. So we go upstairs

00:50:04.800 --> 00:50:07.820
into this conference room. The detectives and

00:50:07.820 --> 00:50:09.599
everyone asked the questions that they needed

00:50:09.599 --> 00:50:13.340
to ask. One of the chaplains was going to assist

00:50:13.340 --> 00:50:16.019
me with making some arrangements and all of those

00:50:16.019 --> 00:50:20.219
type of things. And so literally half hour, 45

00:50:20.219 --> 00:50:23.980
minutes. Sitting in this conference room, Chief

00:50:23.980 --> 00:50:29.019
is sitting right next to me, and he was close

00:50:29.019 --> 00:50:33.480
with Lucas because Lucas, as they progress through

00:50:33.480 --> 00:50:36.980
the academy, they have a job. They're given a

00:50:36.980 --> 00:50:41.440
job. Some work in the motor pool doing odd jobs.

00:50:41.519 --> 00:50:46.179
Some will work, you know. in evidence, you know,

00:50:46.179 --> 00:50:49.619
doing odd jobs, Lucas got posted in the chief's

00:50:49.619 --> 00:50:52.980
office. So he did administrative and clerical

00:50:52.980 --> 00:50:55.139
stuff right there in the chief's office every

00:50:55.139 --> 00:50:58.119
day. So chief Scherbaum walked past him and talked

00:50:58.119 --> 00:51:01.199
to him every day. So it was, it, it hit home

00:51:01.199 --> 00:51:03.980
to him as well. So he was, he was emotional.

00:51:04.440 --> 00:51:07.880
And I asked him, I said, can we step out in the

00:51:07.880 --> 00:51:10.300
hallway for a second? And I took him out in the

00:51:10.300 --> 00:51:16.250
hallway and told him right then that's so. And

00:51:16.250 --> 00:51:19.809
maybe 13 hours after I was notified that he had

00:51:19.809 --> 00:51:22.190
passed away, I told Chief Schierbaum that the

00:51:22.190 --> 00:51:26.489
family wants to start this foundation. I don't

00:51:26.489 --> 00:51:31.429
want this to happen anymore. I don't want families

00:51:31.429 --> 00:51:33.650
to have to go through this. I don't want whatever

00:51:33.650 --> 00:51:39.789
pain that these heroes have to lead them down

00:51:39.789 --> 00:51:43.510
the path to that final. that final solution.

00:51:43.690 --> 00:51:48.150
It doesn't have to end up like that. I have a

00:51:48.150 --> 00:51:52.889
sister -in -law who's an attorney. An hour after

00:51:52.889 --> 00:51:55.690
that, I was in my hotel room, called her and

00:51:55.690 --> 00:52:00.409
said, hey, get the paperwork ready. I don't know

00:52:00.409 --> 00:52:03.780
what I want to call it yet. I don't know. any

00:52:03.780 --> 00:52:05.900
of the details, but have the paperwork ready.

00:52:06.000 --> 00:52:08.900
So when I'm home in four days, I can sign that

00:52:08.900 --> 00:52:11.159
stuff and we can send it to the state of Michigan.

00:52:11.219 --> 00:52:13.579
And that's, that's how it happened. There was

00:52:13.579 --> 00:52:21.039
never, for me anyway, there was never, this might

00:52:21.039 --> 00:52:24.719
sound off color too, is I'm, I had the type of

00:52:24.719 --> 00:52:29.199
personality that I don't give a shit what people

00:52:29.199 --> 00:52:34.480
think. And especially You know, Marie says that

00:52:34.480 --> 00:52:40.280
I used to have a very small filter. And now she

00:52:40.280 --> 00:52:42.179
said I just set it down somewhere and walked

00:52:42.179 --> 00:52:44.519
away from it because I have no filter. I say

00:52:44.519 --> 00:52:49.219
it sometimes it sounds brutal, but I try to be

00:52:49.219 --> 00:52:56.800
honest. And I like the grief is so overwhelming.

00:52:56.920 --> 00:53:00.119
I'm like, I don't I don't care what people think.

00:53:00.179 --> 00:53:04.760
I don't care what they think. I do, but in the

00:53:04.760 --> 00:53:13.019
sense that he's gone and he shouldn't be. So

00:53:13.019 --> 00:53:17.400
let's get past that and try to figure out why

00:53:17.400 --> 00:53:22.219
and figure out what these people need so this

00:53:22.219 --> 00:53:26.719
stops. Absolutely. Yeah, I think one of the...

00:53:27.000 --> 00:53:29.039
The thing that really makes me sad is the ones

00:53:29.039 --> 00:53:31.300
that actually are acknowledged as such a small

00:53:31.300 --> 00:53:34.480
part of just the ones that are in uniform. And

00:53:34.480 --> 00:53:36.599
then there's another entire forgotten group,

00:53:36.699 --> 00:53:39.400
which is the retirees. There is no VA for police

00:53:39.400 --> 00:53:45.000
and fire. So none of those. Yep. You're exactly

00:53:45.000 --> 00:53:48.559
right. They do not get talked about at all. Well,

00:53:48.619 --> 00:53:51.719
Jared, let's bring you in. Firstly, from your

00:53:51.719 --> 00:53:55.059
profession, your unique perspective within the

00:53:55.059 --> 00:53:58.539
profession itself. What have you seen within

00:53:58.539 --> 00:54:02.639
your agency or the law enforcement community

00:54:02.639 --> 00:54:05.139
as a whole as far as the prevalence of this issue?

00:54:06.780 --> 00:54:10.380
It's a great question. So, you know, for Brian

00:54:10.380 --> 00:54:13.780
and for Marie and for Evan and for the Atlanta

00:54:13.780 --> 00:54:20.719
Police Department, Lucas's suicide is, you know,

00:54:20.719 --> 00:54:22.900
for the family, it's the most tragic event of

00:54:22.900 --> 00:54:25.949
their life. And it's traumatic for many, many

00:54:25.949 --> 00:54:34.489
people. But Brian is not alone. And there are

00:54:34.489 --> 00:54:39.730
thousands of families just like them. Suicide

00:54:39.730 --> 00:54:41.570
is the leading cause of death in law enforcement.

00:54:42.090 --> 00:54:44.269
There are more law enforcement officers that

00:54:44.269 --> 00:54:47.869
die as a result of suicide than felonious assaults,

00:54:47.869 --> 00:54:50.869
than vehicular accidents, than training accidents.

00:54:51.210 --> 00:54:56.530
And it's by a lot. And if you take away accidents,

00:54:56.909 --> 00:55:02.550
suicides outpace felonious assaults that result

00:55:02.550 --> 00:55:05.530
in death for law enforcement officers by like

00:55:05.530 --> 00:55:10.349
seven to three. And I don't want to take anything

00:55:10.349 --> 00:55:12.389
away from your profession, James. I know that

00:55:12.389 --> 00:55:14.530
it's a big issue in the fire service and it's

00:55:14.530 --> 00:55:17.809
a big issue in emergency medicine and with all

00:55:17.809 --> 00:55:21.760
first responders. Our heart is with. Law enforcement

00:55:21.760 --> 00:55:24.400
first, because it's what Lucas did. It's what

00:55:24.400 --> 00:55:27.940
I do. It's what a lot of my friends and coworkers

00:55:27.940 --> 00:55:34.239
do. But it's a massive issue. I think that we're

00:55:34.239 --> 00:55:38.639
on the front end of some change. There's been

00:55:38.639 --> 00:55:41.059
a terrible stigma to discussing mental health

00:55:41.059 --> 00:55:44.599
within law enforcement since the beginning. It

00:55:44.599 --> 00:55:46.920
was viewed as weakness to talk about any challenges

00:55:46.920 --> 00:55:51.000
that you have. And yet. Law enforcement officers

00:55:51.000 --> 00:55:54.460
have two big categories of trauma that they deal

00:55:54.460 --> 00:55:56.780
with routinely. So you've got the chronic and

00:55:56.780 --> 00:55:59.920
you've got the acute, right? So the acute is

00:55:59.920 --> 00:56:02.500
what you would think of, you know, the critical

00:56:02.500 --> 00:56:06.539
incidents, the emergency situations that you

00:56:06.539 --> 00:56:10.460
have to respond to, the spikes in heart rate

00:56:10.460 --> 00:56:13.780
and chemical reactions in your body that have

00:56:13.780 --> 00:56:20.929
a fatiguing effect on your body. But also the

00:56:20.929 --> 00:56:23.710
chronic. You brought up something I know exactly

00:56:23.710 --> 00:56:25.789
what you're going by when you asked what shift

00:56:25.789 --> 00:56:30.250
Evan works. And you know how difficult night

00:56:30.250 --> 00:56:34.869
shifts and shifts that change where, you know,

00:56:34.889 --> 00:56:37.150
one week or one month you're doing nights and

00:56:37.150 --> 00:56:39.449
the next one you're doing evenings and the next

00:56:39.449 --> 00:56:43.030
you're doing daytime. And that change is not

00:56:43.030 --> 00:56:47.949
good for the body. The demands of police work

00:56:47.949 --> 00:56:50.730
are underappreciated by the public. And it's

00:56:50.730 --> 00:56:53.949
the same with the fire service as well. I think,

00:56:53.949 --> 00:56:56.289
generally speaking, the difference between police

00:56:56.289 --> 00:56:59.630
and firefighters is that everyone likes firefighters.

00:57:02.130 --> 00:57:04.650
But a lot of people don't like police. And I

00:57:04.650 --> 00:57:08.269
think we're emerging from an era where the real

00:57:08.269 --> 00:57:10.949
hatred for law enforcement is starting to fade.

00:57:12.250 --> 00:57:15.869
And we're coming out of a period where... It

00:57:15.869 --> 00:57:17.789
was much like soldiers returning from the Vietnam

00:57:17.789 --> 00:57:20.250
War in the United States who were hated by the

00:57:20.250 --> 00:57:23.809
public for a job that they maybe didn't even

00:57:23.809 --> 00:57:25.750
volunteer to do. In the case of law enforcement,

00:57:25.869 --> 00:57:29.710
you do volunteer, but it's a noble profession

00:57:29.710 --> 00:57:33.530
that is terribly underappreciated by the public.

00:57:35.010 --> 00:57:37.429
And I think that law enforcement officers as

00:57:37.429 --> 00:57:41.150
public servants, I think that the public has

00:57:41.150 --> 00:57:43.449
some skin in the game with the law enforcement.

00:57:44.650 --> 00:57:48.610
mental health challenges. Absolutely. No, it's

00:57:48.610 --> 00:57:50.269
interesting because we have this conversation,

00:57:50.349 --> 00:57:52.650
obviously, professionally between police and

00:57:52.650 --> 00:57:56.429
fire. And it's true, like the surface level admiration

00:57:56.429 --> 00:57:59.409
is definitely different. And I've experienced

00:57:59.409 --> 00:58:01.630
this, I've written about it in my books, driving

00:58:01.630 --> 00:58:04.809
down OBT in Orlando, red light district, you

00:58:04.809 --> 00:58:06.849
know, gangbangers and sex workers and all the

00:58:06.849 --> 00:58:09.409
people and they're waving at us. Because we're

00:58:09.409 --> 00:58:11.369
the firefighter paramedics that are going to

00:58:11.369 --> 00:58:13.869
be there on their worst day. Whereas for law

00:58:13.869 --> 00:58:16.710
enforcement there, maybe there's one finger raised,

00:58:16.750 --> 00:58:19.989
but not the whole hand to them because they're

00:58:19.989 --> 00:58:22.369
a threat to them in that particular world that

00:58:22.369 --> 00:58:25.030
they inhabit. But actually, when you look at

00:58:25.030 --> 00:58:28.510
the true support where the rubber meets the road

00:58:28.510 --> 00:58:31.510
for the fire, it's what they would use today,

00:58:31.670 --> 00:58:34.900
virtue signaling. People think they admire firefighters,

00:58:35.159 --> 00:58:37.179
but when it comes to actually saying, well, hey,

00:58:37.199 --> 00:58:38.840
we need more firefighters because they're being

00:58:38.840 --> 00:58:41.820
worked into the ground, then it's crickets. So

00:58:41.820 --> 00:58:44.780
you've got this. It's different, but it's almost

00:58:44.780 --> 00:58:46.500
not. I'm not going to say worse because each

00:58:46.500 --> 00:58:49.179
of us have our challenges. But imagine everyone

00:58:49.179 --> 00:58:51.239
thinking that you're really well taken care of.

00:58:51.300 --> 00:58:53.800
But behind the scenes, you're having just, you

00:58:53.800 --> 00:58:55.840
know, you're being shredded. And I'll give you

00:58:55.840 --> 00:58:57.699
a perfect example. And I'm happy to put this

00:58:57.699 --> 00:59:00.519
on air. We have a state representative, Danny

00:59:00.519 --> 00:59:04.269
Alvarez. who just put in a bill that works for

00:59:04.269 --> 00:59:07.050
police and fire. It's a health initiative. And

00:59:07.050 --> 00:59:10.130
one of the things on the bill was to go to a

00:59:10.130 --> 00:59:12.889
42 -hour work week for firefighters. Because

00:59:12.889 --> 00:59:15.110
unbeknownst to most people, because we do a terrible

00:59:15.110 --> 00:59:17.829
job telling the public what we actually do, a

00:59:17.829 --> 00:59:19.989
lot of our men and women in that 24 -hour period,

00:59:20.130 --> 00:59:21.989
they're up pretty much all night running calls.

00:59:22.190 --> 00:59:24.829
And they work 56 hours a week. And then there's

00:59:24.829 --> 00:59:27.409
mandatory overtime. And one overtime for us is

00:59:27.409 --> 00:59:29.710
another 24 -hour period. So now it's an 80 -hour

00:59:29.710 --> 00:59:33.070
work week. So Danny's put this in. This is a

00:59:33.070 --> 00:59:35.130
fight that I've been doing for a long time. The

00:59:35.130 --> 00:59:38.110
Florida Fire Chiefs Association puts out an email

00:59:38.110 --> 00:59:39.949
amongst themselves that they agree with this

00:59:39.949 --> 00:59:43.730
bill apart from the 42 hour work week. So these

00:59:43.730 --> 00:59:46.469
chiefs that work 40 hours a week and go home

00:59:46.469 --> 00:59:49.389
at 5 p .m. every night, Monday to Friday, behind

00:59:49.389 --> 00:59:52.530
closed doors are saying, we don't think our firefighters

00:59:52.530 --> 00:59:55.659
should work less than 56. So these are the kind

00:59:55.659 --> 00:59:58.440
of, you know, behind the scenes things that are

00:59:58.440 --> 01:00:00.659
happening. When I said organizational betrayal,

01:00:00.940 --> 01:00:06.840
that is an immense detriment to a human psyche

01:00:06.840 --> 01:00:09.960
when the very tribe they've sworn to die for.

01:00:11.009 --> 01:00:14.070
cuts their legs from them so all these different

01:00:14.070 --> 01:00:15.869
areas that you have i mean you guys especially

01:00:15.869 --> 01:00:18.829
from the public from the politicians it's disgusting

01:00:18.829 --> 01:00:21.469
i mean you look at some of these horrendous mistakes

01:00:21.469 --> 01:00:23.650
that were made by individuals in a law enforcement

01:00:23.650 --> 01:00:26.449
uniform a lot of times they were held accountable

01:00:26.449 --> 01:00:28.730
to the full letter of the law but that's not

01:00:28.730 --> 01:00:32.070
how it was portrayed on the media so you know

01:00:32.070 --> 01:00:34.969
all the the first responder professions you have

01:00:34.969 --> 01:00:39.340
this outward facing um kind of perspective, but

01:00:39.340 --> 01:00:40.980
actually in a lot of them, when you look behind

01:00:40.980 --> 01:00:42.960
the scenes, it's a lot worse than people even

01:00:42.960 --> 01:00:48.440
realize. Yeah, I believe it. To your point, James,

01:00:48.559 --> 01:00:51.079
that's got to be very disheartening, especially

01:00:51.079 --> 01:00:56.280
since those chiefs that are having those discussions

01:00:56.280 --> 01:01:02.119
behind closed doors have done your job, have

01:01:02.119 --> 01:01:05.380
been the ones working 80 hours, and they should

01:01:05.380 --> 01:01:08.360
know better. Well, a lot of them haven't. A lot

01:01:08.360 --> 01:01:12.340
of them. I mean, maybe that's a problem. Because

01:01:12.340 --> 01:01:14.559
I think, you know, more often than not, you'll

01:01:14.559 --> 01:01:17.599
see that there is a kind of person that will

01:01:17.599 --> 01:01:20.539
get off the streets as quickly as they can stay

01:01:20.539 --> 01:01:23.000
on the administrative route and then climb that

01:01:23.000 --> 01:01:26.199
ladder. So they haven't experienced that, which

01:01:26.199 --> 01:01:31.139
is even worse. Right. For sure. Well, Jared,

01:01:31.219 --> 01:01:33.900
going back to you. Talk to me then about when

01:01:33.900 --> 01:01:36.420
you learned of Lucas's death and then let's kind

01:01:36.420 --> 01:01:38.780
of collectively walk forward from the foundation

01:01:38.780 --> 01:01:44.940
and then what we're doing next. So a couple of

01:01:44.940 --> 01:01:47.920
years had passed and I hadn't had any additional

01:01:47.920 --> 01:01:51.679
contact with Lucas between the time he completed

01:01:51.679 --> 01:01:55.460
his internship with us in August of 21 until

01:01:55.460 --> 01:02:00.039
Sunday morning, I got a call from a work colleague,

01:02:00.179 --> 01:02:03.699
a retired work colleague. who is friends with

01:02:03.699 --> 01:02:08.019
Luke's uncle, who also is a retired agent. And

01:02:08.019 --> 01:02:10.300
he said that there was an Atlantic police officer

01:02:10.300 --> 01:02:16.199
who had died and was originally from Detroit

01:02:16.199 --> 01:02:19.599
and asked if we could facilitate the transfer

01:02:19.599 --> 01:02:22.579
of his body when it arrived at the Detroit airport.

01:02:23.000 --> 01:02:26.820
And I still didn't know who we were talking about.

01:02:27.460 --> 01:02:31.769
And then it occurred to me. This was Lucas Sizemore,

01:02:31.909 --> 01:02:37.010
our former intern. And so at that point, we did

01:02:37.010 --> 01:02:38.610
everything we could to roll out the red carpet.

01:02:38.690 --> 01:02:42.889
So his flight arrived from Atlanta late at night.

01:02:42.949 --> 01:02:46.050
It was, I think, after midnight or sometime late

01:02:46.050 --> 01:02:49.750
on this Sunday evening, Monday morning. And we

01:02:49.750 --> 01:02:51.570
worked with a bunch of law enforcement agencies

01:02:51.570 --> 01:02:57.670
and organized an honor escort from Plainside.

01:02:58.860 --> 01:03:01.599
all the way to the funeral home with several

01:03:01.599 --> 01:03:04.019
law enforcement vehicles with lights on, taking

01:03:04.019 --> 01:03:06.420
them all the way home. And I think this is a

01:03:06.420 --> 01:03:10.679
really touching story for law enforcement. None

01:03:10.679 --> 01:03:13.199
of the people that showed up at the airport to

01:03:13.199 --> 01:03:18.659
escort Lucas's body home knew him. But there

01:03:18.659 --> 01:03:22.500
is a real brotherhood and sisterhood in law enforcement,

01:03:22.599 --> 01:03:26.719
and I assume in the fire service, where we really

01:03:26.719 --> 01:03:30.739
care about one another. And so I think that was

01:03:30.739 --> 01:03:32.860
just a special moment seeing that happen and

01:03:32.860 --> 01:03:37.300
having people that had no contact with him make

01:03:37.300 --> 01:03:40.239
sure that he got the dignity that he deserved.

01:03:42.019 --> 01:03:45.639
And a couple of days after that was the funeral.

01:03:47.440 --> 01:03:53.159
It was a snowy gray day in Detroit and Brian

01:03:53.159 --> 01:03:56.619
won't remember it, but I had met Brian and Marie

01:03:56.619 --> 01:04:00.059
for the first time. hundreds of other people,

01:04:00.099 --> 01:04:03.699
enormous service at a Catholic church in the

01:04:03.699 --> 01:04:07.800
down river community. Very nice service. The

01:04:07.800 --> 01:04:13.619
first several rows at mass were filled with the

01:04:13.619 --> 01:04:17.159
officers from Luke's academy class, tremendous

01:04:17.159 --> 01:04:20.699
turnout from Atlanta police department, tremendous

01:04:20.699 --> 01:04:23.019
turnout, local law enforcement here in Detroit

01:04:23.019 --> 01:04:27.889
and Southeast Michigan. And I didn't reengage

01:04:27.889 --> 01:04:34.030
Brian until this past September, where we were

01:04:34.030 --> 01:04:37.889
both at an event. A friend of ours puts on a

01:04:37.889 --> 01:04:41.489
10 kilometer swim in the Detroit River to raise

01:04:41.489 --> 01:04:45.010
awareness about military mental health and suicide.

01:04:45.949 --> 01:04:48.849
And so by circumstance, I just ran into Brian

01:04:48.849 --> 01:04:53.150
and Marie there. And this idea for a major event

01:04:53.150 --> 01:04:56.199
to sponsor. the thousand mile law enforcement

01:04:56.199 --> 01:04:58.179
relay run to prevent law enforcement suicide

01:04:58.179 --> 01:05:01.760
kind of developed just naturally from that day.

01:05:02.679 --> 01:05:04.860
And over the past, what have we been working

01:05:04.860 --> 01:05:06.679
on this Brian? Seven months, eight months, I

01:05:06.679 --> 01:05:10.860
think. Yep. There's so many little magical events

01:05:10.860 --> 01:05:14.639
that have happened where by circumstance we'll

01:05:14.639 --> 01:05:17.340
just happen to meet the right person to help

01:05:17.340 --> 01:05:22.199
us with sponsorships or. just all these magical

01:05:22.199 --> 01:05:24.739
things that fall in place where we're interacting

01:05:24.739 --> 01:05:27.599
with good people that want to help out with this

01:05:27.599 --> 01:05:31.840
effort. And it's, it's given Brian and I both

01:05:31.840 --> 01:05:33.820
a real sense of purpose of something important

01:05:33.820 --> 01:05:40.800
to work on. So September 23rd in Atlanta, our

01:05:40.800 --> 01:05:43.679
thousand mile law enforcement relay run is going

01:05:43.679 --> 01:05:46.920
to begin. And it's going to run 24 hours a day

01:05:46.920 --> 01:05:49.599
for the next seven days. It's going through Georgia

01:05:49.599 --> 01:05:54.599
and Tennessee, Kentucky, Indiana, Ohio, into

01:05:54.599 --> 01:05:56.380
Michigan. And it's going to finish here in Detroit.

01:05:57.519 --> 01:06:01.719
It's about 135 legs. The majority of those legs

01:06:01.719 --> 01:06:04.880
are at where the runners transition from one

01:06:04.880 --> 01:06:06.440
group to the next, where they pass the baton.

01:06:07.119 --> 01:06:09.059
Majority of those locations are at police stations,

01:06:09.260 --> 01:06:12.380
sheriff's offices, state police, federal law

01:06:12.380 --> 01:06:15.849
enforcement offices. We're doing that on purpose

01:06:15.849 --> 01:06:21.309
to stimulate this conversation in all those locations.

01:06:23.250 --> 01:06:25.409
One of the things Brian's really passionate about

01:06:25.409 --> 01:06:27.690
is large departments have lots of resources,

01:06:27.909 --> 01:06:29.590
right? So if you work for Atlanta Police Department

01:06:29.590 --> 01:06:33.809
or NYPD or LAPD, you're joining a giant agency

01:06:33.809 --> 01:06:36.590
that has mental health resources and has lots

01:06:36.590 --> 01:06:39.610
of support systems. But a lot of these locations

01:06:39.610 --> 01:06:42.570
where we're going through in rural southeast

01:06:42.570 --> 01:06:46.010
and... and the rural Midwest, some of these departments

01:06:46.010 --> 01:06:49.110
have, you know, a dozen officers and they don't

01:06:49.110 --> 01:06:51.030
have the infrastructure that the bigger organizations

01:06:51.030 --> 01:06:54.530
and the federal agencies have. So the money that

01:06:54.530 --> 01:06:57.429
we're going to raise is going to benefit that

01:06:57.429 --> 01:06:59.610
effort to provide resources where the resources

01:06:59.610 --> 01:07:05.750
for mental health don't exist. It's a, it's a

01:07:05.750 --> 01:07:08.889
major event. So there's a lot of conversations

01:07:08.889 --> 01:07:10.610
that are being started right now about mental

01:07:10.610 --> 01:07:12.860
health in the law enforcement community. And

01:07:12.860 --> 01:07:14.739
we're trying to take out the stigma. We're trying

01:07:14.739 --> 01:07:17.739
to create a movement here by doing something

01:07:17.739 --> 01:07:20.460
that's going to draw a lot of attention. We hope

01:07:20.460 --> 01:07:23.400
to draw a lot of media attention during this

01:07:23.400 --> 01:07:26.260
last week in September. We're hoping to get a

01:07:26.260 --> 01:07:30.059
bill resolution passed in Congress in support

01:07:30.059 --> 01:07:33.219
of law enforcement, mental health and help us

01:07:33.219 --> 01:07:35.980
prevent suicide. And it's a tremendous effort.

01:07:38.320 --> 01:07:40.659
Well, Brian, let's roll back for a second. So

01:07:40.659 --> 01:07:43.300
you have this idea shortly after you lose your

01:07:43.300 --> 01:07:45.860
son, you talk to your sister about preparing

01:07:45.860 --> 01:07:48.940
legal documents. Talk to me about the unfolding

01:07:48.940 --> 01:07:56.099
of the foundation in the first place. So, you

01:07:56.099 --> 01:08:00.480
know, this is this is new to us. So I think I

01:08:00.480 --> 01:08:05.159
was just overwhelmed with the the yearning to.

01:08:05.559 --> 01:08:11.260
to help these heroes. I, I, like Jared said,

01:08:11.420 --> 01:08:15.500
you it's, it's not talked about, um, when it

01:08:15.500 --> 01:08:20.199
happens, it's not published. It's not, uh, like

01:08:20.199 --> 01:08:22.840
you said, James, like you just hear, or you see

01:08:22.840 --> 01:08:25.399
that somebody passed away, but it's not, it's

01:08:25.399 --> 01:08:29.359
not posted how or why, or so you kind of got

01:08:29.359 --> 01:08:34.060
to read between the lines. Um, In my experience,

01:08:34.140 --> 01:08:39.119
when I was in Atlanta to get him, I I I found

01:08:39.119 --> 01:08:43.300
out that it had just happened successfully. And

01:08:43.300 --> 01:08:46.020
then there was an attempt that, you know, obviously

01:08:46.020 --> 01:08:51.180
it was unsuccessful. So in since since then,

01:08:51.479 --> 01:08:56.079
it's I'm hypersensitive to it. Like I listen

01:08:56.079 --> 01:09:01.279
for it in the news and it is it is nonstop. It's

01:09:01.279 --> 01:09:05.369
it's. probably once a week here in our own backyard.

01:09:05.670 --> 01:09:07.869
You hear about it in Texas. You hear about it

01:09:07.869 --> 01:09:10.989
in the East Coast. It happens constantly, and

01:09:10.989 --> 01:09:15.909
it'll get reported, but that's where it stops.

01:09:16.090 --> 01:09:19.649
You don't hear anything about any kind of follow

01:09:19.649 --> 01:09:22.930
-up care or what's next for that department.

01:09:23.109 --> 01:09:25.930
What are they doing for the officers that are

01:09:25.930 --> 01:09:30.050
left? I mean, it just stops. These officers died

01:09:30.050 --> 01:09:32.529
by suicide. Here's their funeral arrangements.

01:09:32.670 --> 01:09:34.350
And then that's it. You don't hear anything about

01:09:34.350 --> 01:09:41.810
it. So it was our initial focus and has always

01:09:41.810 --> 01:09:46.909
been our focus to try to do whatever we can to

01:09:46.909 --> 01:09:50.689
help them. And when I speak to them, I tell them

01:09:50.689 --> 01:09:52.729
I'll go anywhere and do anything to help those

01:09:52.729 --> 01:09:58.159
guys. So we've had several. local little fundraisers

01:09:58.159 --> 01:10:01.380
and, and they're always successful. And we get,

01:10:01.399 --> 01:10:05.020
you know, large crowds from the, uh, surrounding

01:10:05.020 --> 01:10:07.899
Detroit community. And we always have a good

01:10:07.899 --> 01:10:11.579
time. Um, and a lot of support from the law enforcement

01:10:11.579 --> 01:10:16.239
community. So when I reconnected with Jared at

01:10:16.239 --> 01:10:19.060
that fundraiser, we were at a couple of weeks

01:10:19.060 --> 01:10:22.939
after that, um, he called me with this idea to

01:10:22.939 --> 01:10:28.359
do this. this national event. And it seemed so

01:10:28.359 --> 01:10:33.680
daunting and so large of an undertaking. I didn't,

01:10:33.680 --> 01:10:36.220
I didn't think we could pull it off, but then

01:10:36.220 --> 01:10:40.260
it like every week, it was like bowling pins

01:10:40.260 --> 01:10:42.699
every week. We knocked that one down. We knocked

01:10:42.699 --> 01:10:44.819
that one down. We knocked that one down. And

01:10:44.819 --> 01:10:48.590
then. I say probably a couple months ago, we

01:10:48.590 --> 01:10:51.449
kind of looked at each other and we were so far

01:10:51.449 --> 01:10:54.729
along. We're like, this is going to happen. So

01:10:54.729 --> 01:11:00.090
now it's like he said, you get excited by these

01:11:00.090 --> 01:11:04.189
little things that happen. Maybe today we do

01:11:04.189 --> 01:11:06.670
this. Maybe nothing happens tomorrow. Monday,

01:11:06.789 --> 01:11:09.329
some other little good thing will happen. And

01:11:09.329 --> 01:11:11.449
then something else will happen on Wednesday.

01:11:11.470 --> 01:11:15.279
And it's just. One thing after another that we

01:11:15.279 --> 01:11:18.479
can see it now, we can see it. And like he said,

01:11:19.880 --> 01:11:25.079
my ultimate goal, if someone handed me a billion

01:11:25.079 --> 01:11:30.359
dollars to spend on these heroes, I would like

01:11:30.359 --> 01:11:38.479
to see a mental health program created by law

01:11:38.479 --> 01:11:42.859
enforcement to treat law enforcement. I want

01:11:42.859 --> 01:11:48.159
their specific program designed, created by them,

01:11:48.319 --> 01:11:54.260
for them. And then some type of training regiment

01:11:54.260 --> 01:11:57.199
instituted so the mental health professionals

01:11:57.199 --> 01:12:02.640
can get on board with what law enforcement personnel

01:12:02.640 --> 01:12:05.819
want and what law enforcement personnel need.

01:12:06.279 --> 01:12:13.100
And if you are in law enforcement, You're a police

01:12:13.100 --> 01:12:15.619
officer. You're an agent. You're in corrections.

01:12:15.979 --> 01:12:18.920
You need some kind of mental health assistance.

01:12:19.680 --> 01:12:24.819
You go to an office or you are looking for a

01:12:24.819 --> 01:12:28.340
mental health professional online and you see

01:12:28.340 --> 01:12:33.220
that logo, that Lucas logo, you know that they've

01:12:33.220 --> 01:12:37.000
been through that training and that they're there

01:12:37.000 --> 01:12:41.710
for them. So again, this journey that I've been

01:12:41.710 --> 01:12:44.630
on, learning from all these people, one of the

01:12:44.630 --> 01:12:48.390
biggest aha moments I had was to get into the

01:12:48.390 --> 01:12:50.510
fire service. I work for four agencies professionally.

01:12:51.569 --> 01:12:53.529
Three of them, I had to lie my way through a

01:12:53.529 --> 01:12:55.729
polygraph because I try being honest at the beginning

01:12:55.729 --> 01:12:57.069
of my career. And when you tell them what you

01:12:57.069 --> 01:12:59.689
did, they were like, oh, you can't be a firefighter.

01:12:59.689 --> 01:13:02.020
I was like, oh, so you have to lie. Got it. Because

01:13:02.020 --> 01:13:04.239
most people that put the uniform on, we've done

01:13:04.239 --> 01:13:06.020
some stuff when we were younger. That's why we're

01:13:06.020 --> 01:13:07.880
good at what we, you know, going into danger.

01:13:08.199 --> 01:13:10.199
But that being said, there's a thing called the

01:13:10.199 --> 01:13:13.739
MMPI, the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Interview.

01:13:14.500 --> 01:13:16.840
And everyone in the mental health community,

01:13:16.960 --> 01:13:18.680
the professionals that have asked about this,

01:13:18.699 --> 01:13:19.840
they were like, well, that was never supposed

01:13:19.840 --> 01:13:23.439
to be a standalone psychological test to deem

01:13:23.439 --> 01:13:26.119
someone to be the right kind of person to be

01:13:26.119 --> 01:13:29.649
in uniform. Please fire EMS. So at the front

01:13:29.649 --> 01:13:31.569
door, there's a lot of box checking. The polygraph

01:13:31.569 --> 01:13:35.090
is just a magic show. And the MMPI is arguably

01:13:35.090 --> 01:13:39.029
supposed to be used as a gamut of tests for forensic

01:13:39.029 --> 01:13:41.109
psychology. So neither of them really have any

01:13:41.109 --> 01:13:45.609
value. If we shift the lens and understand that

01:13:45.609 --> 01:13:47.869
because these people are coming into uniform,

01:13:48.010 --> 01:13:50.729
a lot of people do have things when they were

01:13:50.729 --> 01:13:53.939
younger. That were arguably traumatic. Now, when

01:13:53.939 --> 01:13:55.899
they are processed, that becomes a strength.

01:13:55.939 --> 01:13:58.020
Hands down, you become a more compassionate,

01:13:58.300 --> 01:14:00.880
more resilient first responder. But if they're

01:14:00.880 --> 01:14:03.840
buried down and pushed, that can be a fracture

01:14:03.840 --> 01:14:07.420
in your foundation. So understanding that, you

01:14:07.420 --> 01:14:10.359
know, having the same as PT in the academy, having

01:14:10.359 --> 01:14:13.239
counseling as part of your on -ramp that continues

01:14:13.239 --> 01:14:16.020
through your career, I think is imperative. And

01:14:16.020 --> 01:14:17.760
then again, like you said, aligning that with

01:14:17.760 --> 01:14:20.579
the right kind of mental health thing. The other

01:14:20.579 --> 01:14:23.039
thing that drives me crazy is locally here, the

01:14:23.039 --> 01:14:24.859
chief of the department that protects my family

01:14:24.859 --> 01:14:29.060
have had arguably seven suicide attempts, of

01:14:29.060 --> 01:14:34.640
which five we've lost. And he did a speech recently

01:14:34.640 --> 01:14:38.199
after we had two within 12 weeks of each other,

01:14:38.260 --> 01:14:40.960
two young firefighters. And he said, we don't

01:14:40.960 --> 01:14:43.890
have the answers. Well, that's absolute bullshit.

01:14:43.989 --> 01:14:46.829
We do have the answers. We know all these different

01:14:46.829 --> 01:14:49.350
parts of these puzzles. Now, does that mean that

01:14:49.350 --> 01:14:51.430
you can save everyone? No, but it means that

01:14:51.430 --> 01:14:53.229
there are these elements that we can prevent.

01:14:53.489 --> 01:14:56.750
As you mentioned, just simply providing counseling

01:14:56.750 --> 01:14:59.029
is one of them. But then the other one is sleep.

01:14:59.369 --> 01:15:01.449
If we're going to ask someone to be awake while

01:15:01.449 --> 01:15:04.649
everyone else is safely in their beds, we need

01:15:04.649 --> 01:15:07.189
to give our first responders more rest and recovery

01:15:07.189 --> 01:15:09.369
between shifts so they can get back to baseline.

01:15:09.810 --> 01:15:12.989
So I think this is why. This is what drives me.

01:15:13.010 --> 01:15:14.670
It's what drives you. It drives everyone else

01:15:14.670 --> 01:15:17.550
that's kind of on this mission. We know that

01:15:17.550 --> 01:15:20.189
there are ways that we can help a lot of people,

01:15:20.250 --> 01:15:24.050
not everyone, but a huge portion of these people

01:15:24.050 --> 01:15:26.449
that are struggling, we can get to with these

01:15:26.449 --> 01:15:28.210
initiatives like the one that you're creating.

01:15:28.949 --> 01:15:31.689
But this shoulder shrugging, and I'll give you

01:15:31.689 --> 01:15:34.649
a perfect example. Every year, 40 ,000 Americans

01:15:34.649 --> 01:15:37.130
die on our roads. Arguably, a lot of them are

01:15:37.130 --> 01:15:39.539
children. When have you ever heard anyone say

01:15:39.539 --> 01:15:41.319
we're going to change the age of a driving license?

01:15:41.399 --> 01:15:43.699
We're going to make it harder to get a driving

01:15:43.699 --> 01:15:45.659
license. So you have to have a higher level of

01:15:45.659 --> 01:15:49.100
driving. Nothing. People just, oh, well, just

01:15:49.100 --> 01:15:50.979
put a round circle by the freeway and we're good.

01:15:51.420 --> 01:15:54.359
So it's the people that are driven by this pain

01:15:54.359 --> 01:15:58.220
that need to be the voices because the ones that

01:15:58.220 --> 01:15:59.779
we pay a lot of money that are in the government

01:15:59.779 --> 01:16:03.260
buildings don't seem to be doing a lot of anything.

01:16:03.460 --> 01:16:07.140
So I applaud you for. Turning this grief into

01:16:07.140 --> 01:16:09.439
this mission because you will make a difference.

01:16:09.579 --> 01:16:11.539
Absolutely. Hands down, you'll make a difference.

01:16:12.579 --> 01:16:20.399
Thank you. We're trying. You know, James, one

01:16:20.399 --> 01:16:22.520
of the reasons we're so grateful to get on your

01:16:22.520 --> 01:16:27.039
podcast and to talk to your audience is mainly

01:16:27.039 --> 01:16:29.279
about the issue, right? We want to remove the

01:16:29.279 --> 01:16:33.560
stigma of discussing struggles. about mental

01:16:33.560 --> 01:16:35.060
health within the law enforcement community.

01:16:35.300 --> 01:16:38.840
But we also want to advertise this run. We want

01:16:38.840 --> 01:16:42.399
to get the word out about this, especially to

01:16:42.399 --> 01:16:44.399
your listeners that are going to be along our

01:16:44.399 --> 01:16:47.579
route, along I -75. You know, we're going to

01:16:47.579 --> 01:16:49.380
be going through a lot of rural communities in

01:16:49.380 --> 01:16:51.579
Tennessee and Kentucky and northern Georgia.

01:16:52.100 --> 01:16:55.859
And we need more runners to join us. We need

01:16:55.859 --> 01:16:58.159
more corporate sponsors. We're really, really

01:16:58.159 --> 01:17:01.890
grateful this last week, Home Depot. Fantastic

01:17:01.890 --> 01:17:06.050
pro -American, pro -law enforcement company signed

01:17:06.050 --> 01:17:08.369
on as our largest corporate sponsor. We're tremendously

01:17:08.369 --> 01:17:12.569
grateful to them. General Dynamics, Land Systems,

01:17:12.810 --> 01:17:16.050
another sponsor. And there are companies that

01:17:16.050 --> 01:17:20.130
I think realize that they have skin in the game.

01:17:20.250 --> 01:17:22.289
And we're particularly interested in getting

01:17:22.289 --> 01:17:26.010
sponsorships from corporations that have law

01:17:26.010 --> 01:17:28.750
enforcement contracts, that sell equipment or

01:17:28.750 --> 01:17:31.750
services. or what have you to law enforcement

01:17:31.750 --> 01:17:35.350
where they make a buck off the back of law enforcement.

01:17:36.449 --> 01:17:38.109
And we're hoping that some of those companies,

01:17:38.210 --> 01:17:39.989
those good companies are interested in giving

01:17:39.989 --> 01:17:45.390
back and helping out the good guys. I had a great

01:17:45.390 --> 01:17:47.750
connection with 5 .11. There's been some shift

01:17:47.750 --> 01:17:49.710
in the management there, so I'm trying to reconnect,

01:17:49.829 --> 01:17:51.890
but I'm sure they would be a company that would

01:17:51.890 --> 01:17:53.630
want to help. I mean, I'm being presumptive,

01:17:53.630 --> 01:17:56.250
but I mean, they do a lot of kind of altruistic

01:17:56.250 --> 01:17:58.819
work as well. Yeah, we'd love that. They're on

01:17:58.819 --> 01:18:00.880
our list. I haven't engaged 5 .11 yet, but I

01:18:00.880 --> 01:18:06.439
will. What about AT &T, Brian? Because I know

01:18:06.439 --> 01:18:08.699
that they, I think at least on the fire side,

01:18:08.840 --> 01:18:11.899
they're the main or the biggest company that

01:18:11.899 --> 01:18:13.779
we use for communication, if I'm not mistaken.

01:18:14.439 --> 01:18:18.880
Yes, not to put the cart before the horse, but

01:18:18.880 --> 01:18:23.640
there are negotiations taking place. It's a little

01:18:23.640 --> 01:18:28.619
too... Too early for me to give any details,

01:18:28.800 --> 01:18:31.479
but I am very confident that they're going to

01:18:31.479 --> 01:18:33.720
come through. That's great to hear. I think this

01:18:33.720 --> 01:18:35.819
is the thing that I do even with the sponsors

01:18:35.819 --> 01:18:38.039
for the show. Every single one, I don't think

01:18:38.039 --> 01:18:41.079
people realize this, every single one bar one

01:18:41.079 --> 01:18:43.539
that was brought to me that was an amazing product.

01:18:44.000 --> 01:18:46.380
It's called Team Builder. It's a kind of online.

01:18:47.600 --> 01:18:50.359
fitness scheduling program that they have a whole

01:18:50.359 --> 01:18:53.060
task alarm. Incredible. But every other one,

01:18:53.239 --> 01:18:56.260
5 .11 included, I have used their stuff and said,

01:18:56.380 --> 01:19:00.079
this profession needs to know about this company.

01:19:00.239 --> 01:19:02.920
Thorne Supplements, you know, so many different

01:19:02.920 --> 01:19:05.899
companies because people are going to spend money.

01:19:05.920 --> 01:19:08.590
And I think the social businesses. the businesses

01:19:08.590 --> 01:19:11.430
that are actually doing good things as well are

01:19:11.430 --> 01:19:13.930
the ones that need to be highlighted. So they

01:19:13.930 --> 01:19:16.250
are helping with this mission, but I think it's

01:19:16.250 --> 01:19:18.430
equally important for us to highlight those businesses

01:19:18.430 --> 01:19:22.210
that are worth the dollar, basically. Yeah, that

01:19:22.210 --> 01:19:24.270
brand association, I think, is really powerful

01:19:24.270 --> 01:19:29.449
when a brand shows that it's a member of the

01:19:29.449 --> 01:19:32.989
community, right? The greater community, that

01:19:32.989 --> 01:19:36.029
it supports and understands some of the struggles

01:19:36.029 --> 01:19:38.420
that first responders have. I think that's a

01:19:38.420 --> 01:19:43.880
really positive brand association. Absolutely.

01:19:44.119 --> 01:19:46.659
Well, Brian, so people listening now, you need

01:19:46.659 --> 01:19:49.260
runners, you need corporate sponsors. Where can

01:19:49.260 --> 01:19:52.020
people go to learn more about the event? And

01:19:52.020 --> 01:19:55.039
then how can they either sign up to run and or

01:19:55.039 --> 01:19:58.409
sign up to actually support financially? There,

01:19:58.529 --> 01:20:04.289
the website, the web address is www .lucascrusade

01:20:04.289 --> 01:20:09.090
.org. It's L -U -C -A -S -C -R -U -S -A -D -E,

01:20:09.229 --> 01:20:15.409
no spaces. On that site, you will see the menu

01:20:15.409 --> 01:20:19.390
for the relay segments that will show you the

01:20:19.390 --> 01:20:22.449
route. And Jared would correct me if I'm wrong,

01:20:22.510 --> 01:20:25.550
probably next week when our IT lady is back,

01:20:25.670 --> 01:20:29.770
Tori's back. The registration for those. So you

01:20:29.770 --> 01:20:32.350
can go on the site now and look at the route

01:20:32.350 --> 01:20:35.829
and look at all the segments and in your mind,

01:20:35.850 --> 01:20:39.869
potentially know which segment or segments that

01:20:39.869 --> 01:20:42.909
you're going to want to run. The registration

01:20:42.909 --> 01:20:45.949
portion of that is not live yet, and I believe

01:20:45.949 --> 01:20:50.109
that will be live next week. The sponsorship

01:20:50.109 --> 01:20:54.840
information is on there now. Along with contact

01:20:54.840 --> 01:20:57.460
information, you can see the sponsorship levels

01:20:57.460 --> 01:21:01.039
and our contact information is on there. There's

01:21:01.039 --> 01:21:04.239
email addresses on there if you have if anyone

01:21:04.239 --> 01:21:08.100
has any questions regarding sponsorship. And

01:21:08.100 --> 01:21:14.720
James, it's not we obviously we want corporate

01:21:14.720 --> 01:21:17.119
sponsors. We want big corporate sponsors, but

01:21:17.119 --> 01:21:25.489
that doesn't preclude my neighbor. Bob, Bob next

01:21:25.489 --> 01:21:27.909
door, you know, I cut his grass and stuff. I'm

01:21:27.909 --> 01:21:29.689
sure he's going to he'll go on there and donate

01:21:29.689 --> 01:21:33.050
twenty dollars. You know, a bunch of them is

01:21:33.050 --> 01:21:36.510
just as welcome as Home Depot, not anything against

01:21:36.510 --> 01:21:40.649
Home Depot. We love them. But, you know, I what

01:21:40.649 --> 01:21:44.289
Jared is really good at talking about is this

01:21:44.289 --> 01:21:50.949
is. It's as it's as important to me to have a

01:21:50.949 --> 01:21:55.689
million people. Go on there and donate $1 just

01:21:55.689 --> 01:22:00.149
because now so many people are involved and so

01:22:00.149 --> 01:22:03.430
many people are now aware that what we're trying

01:22:03.430 --> 01:22:07.850
to do and trying to make a difference, you know,

01:22:07.850 --> 01:22:10.869
instead of having five big corporate sponsors,

01:22:10.949 --> 01:22:14.789
which we want, I still want the public in the

01:22:14.789 --> 01:22:17.329
nation to know about this because that's the

01:22:17.329 --> 01:22:21.510
only way anything is going to happen. Absolutely.

01:22:22.199 --> 01:22:23.960
well i'll stay with you for a second brian is

01:22:23.960 --> 01:22:26.199
there anything else you want to add before we

01:22:26.199 --> 01:22:31.840
close out um yeah personally to jared thank you

01:22:31.840 --> 01:22:37.699
um there's it's it's hard enough dealing with

01:22:37.699 --> 01:22:43.800
the grief but uh to try to plan and do something

01:22:43.800 --> 01:22:46.600
as big as what we're doing there's no way i would

01:22:46.600 --> 01:22:50.800
have been able to do do this by myself um and

01:22:50.800 --> 01:22:55.630
to the To the officers that are in training,

01:22:55.729 --> 01:22:58.829
the ones that are the recruits, to the ones that

01:22:58.829 --> 01:23:02.170
are on the job now, and to the retirees, you

01:23:02.170 --> 01:23:06.609
go on to the foundation's main website, and the

01:23:06.609 --> 01:23:11.550
link is there from the Relay's website. If you

01:23:11.550 --> 01:23:16.189
don't have mental health resources, my personal

01:23:16.189 --> 01:23:19.250
phone number is on that site. If you need to

01:23:19.250 --> 01:23:23.779
talk to somebody, you can call me. You can call

01:23:23.779 --> 01:23:27.680
me. I'm not any kind of mental health professional,

01:23:27.840 --> 01:23:30.859
but I will talk to you. I promise you, I will

01:23:30.859 --> 01:23:34.239
talk to you. There's a great organization called

01:23:34.239 --> 01:23:40.020
the Overwatch Collective. And they actually fund

01:23:40.020 --> 01:23:43.619
mental health resources for, just like you said,

01:23:43.680 --> 01:23:48.460
people that are looking. the locality of some

01:23:48.460 --> 01:23:50.420
of these people don't have the ability to even

01:23:50.420 --> 01:23:52.300
find a counselor that's culturally competent

01:23:52.300 --> 01:23:55.380
in their area so that's another great one in

01:23:55.380 --> 01:23:57.340
the interim if you find yourself you know hitting

01:23:57.340 --> 01:23:59.659
a brick wall the overwatch collective and that's

01:23:59.659 --> 01:24:03.560
law enforcement based as well so jared what about

01:24:03.560 --> 01:24:06.880
you anything to add before we round off no james

01:24:06.880 --> 01:24:09.220
i just wanted to thank you for your service uh

01:24:09.220 --> 01:24:12.779
you're a public servant And you also are a public

01:24:12.779 --> 01:24:14.399
servant for what you do through your podcast.

01:24:14.739 --> 01:24:18.600
The attention that you've given to this issue

01:24:18.600 --> 01:24:22.420
of first responder mental health is huge. Thank

01:24:22.420 --> 01:24:26.020
you for letting us talk about this to your audience.

01:24:26.779 --> 01:24:30.220
God bless you. Yes. Ditto. Thanks a lot, James.

01:24:30.340 --> 01:24:31.060
We appreciate you.