WEBVTT

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This episode is sponsored by 5 .11, a company

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I've used personally for well over a decade and

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continue to use to this day. And 5 .11 wants

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you a discount, which I will get to in a moment.

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As with each episode, I want to highlight one

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of their products. And I think an area that really

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needs to be discussed is uniforms. So most of

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us listening to this podcast are in some sort

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of uniform profession. And 5 .11 were founded

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on clothing the tactical athletes. they went

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to the member of military, the police officer,

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the firefighter, the EMT, and asked them what

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do they need to function at the highest level

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when it comes to their clothing. So their uniforms

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are reverse engineered from the user back to

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the manufacturer. Another observation I've made

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in several departments I've worked at is that

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we end up with lockers full of worn faded uniforms.

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And what I found with the 511 uniform that I

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wore in California was that wasn't the case.

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They lasted several years and some of the job

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shirts and jackets lasted way longer than that.

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So longevity and cost efficiency is also another

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element to this as well. Yet another layer to

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this is the female tactical athlete. So they

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realized that men and women, surprise, surprise,

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are not shaped the same. way so they started

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designing uniforms accordingly to fit the female

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tactical athlete and allow her to be able to

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move efficiently so so many reasons why i advocate

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this company on top of all their other great

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511tactical .com. And to hear even more about

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5 .11, their mission, their products, and their

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genesis, listen to my interview with their CEO

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and co -founder Francisco Morales on episode

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338 of this podcast. This episode is sponsored

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by GovX, a company I've used for several years

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now and wish I'd used for even longer. If you

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foundations every single month. And with this

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being September, they have a 9 -11 memorial patch

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that raises money for firefighter aid. So if

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membership. And on top of the savings that you

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podcast, to offer you an extra discount. If you

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a member for life and continue to save over and

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over again. Welcome to episode 352 of Behind

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the Shield podcast. As always, my name is James

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Gearing, and this week it is my absolute honor

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to welcome on the show, Will Chesney. Now, Will

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was a member of SEAL Team 6, along with his canine,

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Cairo, and they were part of the team that ultimately

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killed Osama bin Laden, the man behind the terror

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attacks. So, of course, we discussed that event,

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but there are so many other layers to the story,

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from Cairo's earlier deployments, where he was

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almost killed, recovered, and then went back

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to duty. about Will's TBI and PTSD and how ultimately

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man and dog helped heal each other and so many

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other takeaways from this conversation. Before

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we get to that interview, like I say, every single

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week, please just take a moment, go to whichever

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app you listen to this on, subscribe to the show,

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leave feedback and leave a rating. And as I mentioned,

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this is a free library for you, the audience.

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So all I ask in return is that you share these

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incredible men, women and even canine stories

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so I can get them to every... single person on

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planet earth that needs to hear them and as one

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more side note i wanted to make sure that the

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book i wrote one more light life death and humanity

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through the eyes of the firefighter also came

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out this month september which is so pertinent

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to the fire service and all the associated professions

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so that being said it is my huge honor to introduce

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to you will chesney enjoy So, Will, I want to

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start by saying, firstly, thank you to Ryan for

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connecting us. And secondly, thank you to you

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for coming on the podcast. Yeah, thanks for having

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me on. I appreciate it. Shout out to Ryan. So

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where roughly on planet Earth are we finding

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you today? I am in Houston right now. We had

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that storm come through. So just kind of hanging

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out here and seeing if, yeah, hanging out in

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Houston. Good. Any bad stories come out of that?

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I know it was a pretty sizable hurricane. Yeah,

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I lost my phone, so I've been kind of out of

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the loop trying to deal with all that. But I

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think I've been checking a little bit. I don't

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know. I don't think it was too bad. Okay. I'm

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sure there were some families that were affected,

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though, but I'm kind of out of the loop. Yeah.

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Okay. Well, then I'd like to start chronologically.

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So tell me where you were born, and then tell

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me about your family dynamic, what your parents

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did, and how many siblings. I'm an only child.

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I was born in Southeast Texas. Nothing too crazy,

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just grew up in a trailer park in Southeast Texas.

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Played football, of course, pretty much through

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middle school, a little bit of high school. Parents

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were pretty good to go. Grandparents were really

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great. It was a pretty normal childhood, but

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I left as soon as I graduated high school. Just

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wanted to get out of the area and join the Navy

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and see what else was out there. Were you a big

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kid, small kid, average size? About average size.

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Okay, so was football something... that you found

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you were naturally adept to? Because I have seals

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on here that were monsters like Jocko, and then

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you have seals that were small like Ryan that

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had to work hard to get to the strength and fitness

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that they found in the seal teams. Yeah, I had

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to work hard, but I guess that's what I noticed

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when we had the athletes on the team. I remember

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one time I was doing bleachers, and I was ahead

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of the athletes, and the coach called them out.

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I was like, well, I just got to work a little

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bit harder. I guess the diet, looking back now,

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diet would be a huge part. I wish my diet would

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have been better, but it is what it is. What

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did that look like? Tell me some of the foods.

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Southeast Texas, a lot of fried food. It's not

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the healthiest. We didn't have a lot of money

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growing up, so we got by on what we got by with.

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It might not have been the best. But looking

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back on it now, I know diet's a huge part of

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all that stuff. But I just remember having to

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try a little bit harder than everybody else.

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Yeah. So what about dogs? I mean, when you were

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a child, did you have dogs in the household?

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Yeah, we had a few small dogs, a few larger dogs

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growing up, some pit bulls, rottweilers, and

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stuff like that. But nothing that we really trained

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too crazy with. They were just household dogs.

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Brilliant. Plenty of dogs growing up, yeah. Okay,

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so with a lot of people that find themselves

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in either first responder professions or military,

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especially people that have struggled later in

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their career, a lot of times when you trace it

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back, there's also some sort of element of trauma

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in their youth. Is there anything in your childhood

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that you now, looking back, attribute to maybe

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one of those layers of trauma that you took through

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your career? Pretty normal childhood, nothing

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too traumatic. I had a pretty good childhood

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growing up. Good, good to hear. Right, well then

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what about aspirations? You said you joined the

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Navy. When you were going through high school,

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was that always your goal or was it 9 -11 that

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determined you? Yeah, I wanted to serve my country.

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Definitely 9 -11 had a huge part of it. I just

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wanted to serve. I grew up a little bit poorer.

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It wasn't nothing too crazy. We weren't super

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poor, but there wasn't much around this area.

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I was a pretty smart kid, but I wasn't a great

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student. So I was pretty lazy. I can be pretty

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lazy sometimes. But I wanted to serve my country,

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like I said. And then being a SEAL, you get to

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do all that cool stuff, get to test myself, push

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it. And it was really interesting. Didn't want

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to go to school. It was all more hands -on stuff.

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Obviously, you get to shoot guns and blow stuff

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up. So there was a lot of drugs kind of where

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I grew up. I'm glad I got out of the area instead

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of sticking around for a little bit. There's

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no telling what might have happened. Instead,

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I joined the Navy and served my country. I got

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to test myself. I actually made it through BUDS

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training, so that was pretty cool. It was quite

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the venture. It was what I wanted to do. It was

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one of those things I look back on that I thank

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God for. I found something that I didn't have

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to get paid for, something that I probably would

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have died for. something i knew what i wanted

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and nothing would stop me and if i happen to

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not make it along the way then it is what it

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is at least i was having fun trying to get there

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well you used the word fun and i heard you mention

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that in the book so i love listening to the mindset

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i mean stew smith i think you did an interview

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with him not too long ago he was on here and

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i remember him saying people always ask what

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should a seal look like and he says it's not

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about what they look like it's about you know

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what's between their ears so what was your mindset

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that allowed you to to get through not only get

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through but not even be rolled back when obviously

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the attrition rate was so high with the the men

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each side of you like i said just have fun i've

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made a lot of uh i joined the navy just to be

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a seal and go test myself and all that stuff

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but along the way i made some of the best friends

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that i could have ever asked for we all we did

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was uh you know it sucks getting through buds

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six seven months of some parts are fun but most

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parts just it's a lot of pain so in order to

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get through all that stuff you just have fun

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with your friends when you can and it's a lot

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of jokes and having i don't know man you get

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through the hard evolutions and then when you

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have time off just take it easy and joke around

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Now, when you were going through BUDS, because

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I heard again in the book, your kind of burning

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ambition to even level up after becoming a SEAL.

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At what point in your training did you start

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thinking about DevGuru, the elite of the SEALs?

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Oh, I didn't hear about it until I was in my

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first platoon. And then I heard a couple of guys

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talking about it. It sounded pretty interesting.

00:11:57.019 --> 00:12:00.210
That's an understatement. Yeah, definitely an

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understatement. When I was going through buds,

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my main focus was making it through buds. If

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people want to aspire to that level, then I would

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focus on making it through buds first. But it's

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a good goal. Yeah, sure, shoot for the stars.

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Absolutely. Where did you find yourself as far

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as deployment the first time as a SEAL in? First

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time as a SEAL was doing PSD in Iraq. I got to

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do a couple of ops, but they were pretty uneventful.

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member of the military, the men and women are

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actually on the ground. When you were down there,

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were there any memorable events that happened

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where you saw the horrors that were going on

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that then kind of reinforced, regardless of the

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politics, that you were there to do some good

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in the world? Yeah, definitely. No matter what

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the politics are, there's good and there's evil

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out there. It's a fact. I mean, people definitely

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know that there's good. I'm sure everybody can

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at least agree with that. And if people haven't

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seen evil, well, it's definitely out there. You

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can't have the good without the bad. And while

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we were there, yeah, sure. Yeah. Are there any

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examples that you can think of? I mean, if they're

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not, it's fine. But I know some people, there's

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like a certain event that was the first time

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they saw, you know, the horrors that then, you

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know, stuck with them ever since. I mean, we

00:13:51.389 --> 00:13:54.830
relied on our intel people. to give us good intelligence.

00:13:54.870 --> 00:13:56.929
And we usually got that. And you could just see

00:13:56.929 --> 00:13:59.549
it when we got there. They were always willing

00:13:59.549 --> 00:14:02.409
to fight. Or if they weren't, you could just

00:14:02.409 --> 00:14:04.350
tell. You could just tell them the good from

00:14:04.350 --> 00:14:08.049
the bad. Yeah, there's a lot of events. That

00:14:08.049 --> 00:14:10.809
was what our job was. Nothing in specific that

00:14:10.809 --> 00:14:13.809
stood out. We were there to do a job. And that

00:14:13.809 --> 00:14:17.529
job was to get rid of bad people. Yeah, so then

00:14:17.529 --> 00:14:20.590
the other question I always align that with is

00:14:20.590 --> 00:14:24.070
it's intriguing hearing how these men and women

00:14:24.070 --> 00:14:28.429
view these families in Afghanistan and Iraq and

00:14:28.429 --> 00:14:31.409
wherever they are and are kind of struck by the

00:14:31.409 --> 00:14:36.289
normalcy of everyone around the war. So not the

00:14:36.289 --> 00:14:38.190
actual fighters, but the people living in these

00:14:38.190 --> 00:14:40.470
cities. Was that something that struck you too,

00:14:40.549 --> 00:14:44.190
seeing fathers and husbands and wives and kids

00:14:44.190 --> 00:14:47.769
playing and the same kind of family dynamic that

00:14:47.769 --> 00:14:50.720
you'd see in the US or the UK? No, of course

00:14:50.720 --> 00:14:52.740
not. We're all human beings. I mean, we got to

00:14:52.740 --> 00:14:54.440
work with some of the local nationals. Those

00:14:54.440 --> 00:14:57.000
guys were great. Some of those guys weren't great.

00:14:57.580 --> 00:14:59.580
Some of those guys, when I did a couple of sniper

00:14:59.580 --> 00:15:02.440
missions early in my career in Iraq, I mean,

00:15:02.440 --> 00:15:04.779
I got along with those guys really well. And

00:15:04.779 --> 00:15:06.220
then there were some people that we worked with,

00:15:06.259 --> 00:15:07.980
the local nationals, that were just not. They

00:15:07.980 --> 00:15:10.659
were bad people trying to embed with us. But

00:15:10.659 --> 00:15:12.519
no, to see regular families, of course not. We

00:15:12.519 --> 00:15:16.980
would, you know, a lot of guys would give chemlights

00:15:16.980 --> 00:15:19.830
to the kids. All that stuff. Sometimes they would

00:15:19.830 --> 00:15:21.450
accept them and sometimes they would hate us

00:15:21.450 --> 00:15:23.049
and they wouldn't accept them. But now it's just

00:15:23.049 --> 00:15:25.090
normal families. Sometimes we would show up to

00:15:25.090 --> 00:15:28.549
the wrong house and it was just a normal family.

00:15:28.649 --> 00:15:33.710
We would apologize and, you know, pay them for

00:15:33.710 --> 00:15:37.990
any damages. Move on. It happens. But we also

00:15:37.990 --> 00:15:39.870
saw the bad as well. And you can definitely tell

00:15:39.870 --> 00:15:41.450
there's a difference between people, a normal

00:15:41.450 --> 00:15:43.149
family coming out and looking and seeing what's

00:15:43.149 --> 00:15:45.370
going on and not knowing. I've seen that plenty

00:15:45.370 --> 00:15:47.429
of times, especially being a sniper on a rooftop.

00:15:48.169 --> 00:15:50.529
for a little bit my career and then you can tell

00:15:50.529 --> 00:15:54.370
when the bad guys are doing shady stuff sneaking

00:15:54.370 --> 00:15:58.730
around rooftops and you know doing whatever they

00:15:58.730 --> 00:16:01.389
do you can tell the difference for sure yeah

00:16:01.389 --> 00:16:03.529
no i just think it's an important thing because

00:16:03.529 --> 00:16:06.610
again at home a lot of us are told oh you know

00:16:06.610 --> 00:16:08.830
iraq or afghanistan those are quote unquote the

00:16:08.830 --> 00:16:11.250
bad guys meaning the entire country which is

00:16:11.250 --> 00:16:14.649
you know a very blanket statement so um well

00:16:14.649 --> 00:16:18.500
you mentioned sniper So tell me about that because

00:16:18.500 --> 00:16:21.820
you talk about one specific event as a sniper

00:16:21.820 --> 00:16:24.379
that was very powerful. So what made you want

00:16:24.379 --> 00:16:26.320
to go the sniper route once you got in the teams?

00:16:28.419 --> 00:16:31.399
Yeah, once you make it through BUDS and you get

00:16:31.399 --> 00:16:33.940
to the teams and you're still always working,

00:16:34.059 --> 00:16:37.360
you still need to make yourself valuable. It's

00:16:37.360 --> 00:16:39.639
just not like, hey, good job, you made it through

00:16:39.639 --> 00:16:41.700
BUDS, now you're here and everything's done.

00:16:41.779 --> 00:16:46.330
You always have to keep improving yourself. I

00:16:46.330 --> 00:16:49.289
guess when you get there, there's different jobs,

00:16:49.289 --> 00:16:51.529
whether it's sniping, breaching, diving, jumping.

00:16:52.950 --> 00:16:54.909
You just kind of explore all those options. You

00:16:54.909 --> 00:16:57.610
have to be proficient at all of them, but while

00:16:57.610 --> 00:16:59.490
you're being proficient at them. I just loved

00:16:59.490 --> 00:17:03.090
sniping. I was a pretty decent shot, and it's

00:17:03.090 --> 00:17:05.289
just something that I was passionate about. I

00:17:05.289 --> 00:17:07.869
applied for sniper school over and over again.

00:17:07.970 --> 00:17:11.549
They set me up for breacher school, and nothing

00:17:11.549 --> 00:17:13.369
wrong with breacher. I wanted to go to that school.

00:17:14.580 --> 00:17:18.839
I wanted to sign for first, so I had to be pretty

00:17:18.839 --> 00:17:20.880
persistent. They got mad at me for a little bit.

00:17:21.700 --> 00:17:27.160
They did, but I was just persistent. They finally

00:17:27.160 --> 00:17:29.099
told me to stop asking, but I asked again, and

00:17:29.099 --> 00:17:31.359
it worked out well. I got signed for school,

00:17:31.480 --> 00:17:36.099
so it was all good. I can totally relate. Sometimes

00:17:36.099 --> 00:17:39.019
you just have to be persistent. Try not to piss

00:17:39.019 --> 00:17:41.779
people off. Exactly. It's a fine line to navigate,

00:17:41.859 --> 00:17:45.039
though. Yeah, it's a fine line. They were getting

00:17:45.039 --> 00:17:48.500
a little mad. I'm like, come on, man. Were you

00:17:48.500 --> 00:17:51.759
able to tell the story of that first shot that

00:17:51.759 --> 00:17:56.960
you took when the fighter on the rooftop? Yeah.

00:17:57.039 --> 00:18:02.339
A brief overview would be it was my second deployment,

00:18:02.440 --> 00:18:07.250
I think. We were in Iraq. Working with the local

00:18:07.250 --> 00:18:14.190
nationals, I was a sniper on a roof. One of the

00:18:14.190 --> 00:18:16.670
local nationals called me over and he said he

00:18:16.670 --> 00:18:18.990
saw some sketchy movement on the other rooftop

00:18:18.990 --> 00:18:24.230
that our guys were entering on. That was the

00:18:24.230 --> 00:18:27.970
primary building. And one of the SOPs that they

00:18:27.970 --> 00:18:31.150
had been doing was throwing grenades off the

00:18:31.150 --> 00:18:34.920
rooftops into the alleyways. And just the guy

00:18:34.920 --> 00:18:36.319
was looking, he was obviously sketchy. I was

00:18:36.319 --> 00:18:39.140
pretty, still pretty, I was a pretty new guy

00:18:39.140 --> 00:18:42.579
still. So both the ROEs were the ROEs. And I

00:18:42.579 --> 00:18:45.259
actually had a local national up there with me

00:18:45.259 --> 00:18:48.519
to confirm. But the guy was just jumping around

00:18:48.519 --> 00:18:53.359
the roof and just being shady. And I didn't want

00:18:53.359 --> 00:18:55.720
to throw in a grenade over and ended up engaging

00:18:55.720 --> 00:18:58.839
that guy. And it was the guy that we were going

00:18:58.839 --> 00:19:02.240
after that night. He had actually killed a couple

00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:05.940
of Americans previously, and they'd been looking

00:19:05.940 --> 00:19:07.720
for him for a while, so it ended up being a pretty

00:19:07.720 --> 00:19:10.900
good night. Now, how hard is that? And this seems

00:19:10.900 --> 00:19:12.700
like a very, very stupid question I'm about to

00:19:12.700 --> 00:19:16.380
ask you, but take World War II, for example.

00:19:16.519 --> 00:19:18.759
You had the uniforms. You had two very obvious

00:19:18.759 --> 00:19:21.019
sides, unless they were wearing each other's

00:19:21.019 --> 00:19:24.500
uniform. Now, here you have, as you just mentioned,

00:19:24.599 --> 00:19:28.400
civilians and fighters. wearing exactly the same

00:19:28.400 --> 00:19:32.019
clothes so how hard was it as a sniper to differentiate

00:19:32.019 --> 00:19:34.720
and the pressure of taking a shot or not taking

00:19:34.720 --> 00:19:38.200
a shot like i said i was still pretty early in

00:19:38.200 --> 00:19:42.259
my career on there so it was uh it was good to

00:19:42.259 --> 00:19:43.900
have the local national there with me to back

00:19:43.900 --> 00:19:47.200
me up and also like if i didn't take that shot

00:19:47.200 --> 00:19:49.980
and the guy had thrown a grenade over and killed

00:19:49.980 --> 00:19:53.819
some of my friends I don't know if I'd be able

00:19:53.819 --> 00:19:55.779
to live with myself on that one. But these days,

00:19:55.799 --> 00:19:58.099
after being around and being experienced for

00:19:58.099 --> 00:20:02.039
a while, it would have been no question about

00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:06.720
it. The guy was obviously not listening. He wasn't

00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:09.420
complying. He was being sketchy. And there was

00:20:09.420 --> 00:20:12.039
no doubt about it. But early on in my career,

00:20:12.140 --> 00:20:14.460
you just want to make sure you're doing the right

00:20:14.460 --> 00:20:17.799
thing. But it ended up working out well. Absolutely.

00:20:17.940 --> 00:20:19.640
And for everyone listening, by the way, I highly

00:20:19.640 --> 00:20:21.259
recommend the book. I'm not going to pull out

00:20:21.259 --> 00:20:23.299
too many stories from there because it's a great

00:20:23.299 --> 00:20:27.119
read. So what about being exposed to working

00:20:27.119 --> 00:20:30.319
dogs? When was your first time alongside a canine?

00:20:32.220 --> 00:20:35.839
First time I saw a canine was that same, I was

00:20:35.839 --> 00:20:37.740
at SEAL Team 4. They put on a dog demonstration

00:20:37.740 --> 00:20:41.119
on one of our training trips. And it was really

00:20:41.119 --> 00:20:42.619
cool. It was just a guy. I think they put one

00:20:42.619 --> 00:20:44.460
of our assaulters in a bite suit and had him

00:20:44.460 --> 00:20:47.910
run down the field. And the dog, you know, just

00:20:47.910 --> 00:20:50.390
the handler let the dog go, chased him down,

00:20:50.549 --> 00:20:53.250
tackled him. We all laughed. It was just a pretty

00:20:53.250 --> 00:20:58.690
basic but cool dog demonstration. That was my

00:20:58.690 --> 00:21:00.789
first exposure to the dogs, but I didn't really

00:21:00.789 --> 00:21:04.529
see anything until my first deployment with my

00:21:04.529 --> 00:21:07.089
squadron. And then I saw how valuable the dogs

00:21:07.089 --> 00:21:10.609
were. There's a saying in the book. It says,

00:21:10.650 --> 00:21:12.269
raise your hand. I remember being in the team

00:21:12.269 --> 00:21:14.089
room once and somebody saying, raise your hand.

00:21:14.519 --> 00:21:16.940
If a dog has ever saved your life. And pretty

00:21:16.940 --> 00:21:18.839
much everybody's hand in the team room went up

00:21:18.839 --> 00:21:21.960
with a story to tell. If not a couple of stories

00:21:21.960 --> 00:21:25.200
to tell about a dog saving their life. And on

00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:27.039
my first deployment with my squadron, I just

00:21:27.039 --> 00:21:30.559
saw it. It was great. I love dogs. I had dogs

00:21:30.559 --> 00:21:34.420
growing up. Like I said earlier, just because

00:21:34.420 --> 00:21:36.220
you become a SEAL doesn't mean you're done. I

00:21:36.220 --> 00:21:38.799
had to find another job that I wanted to do.

00:21:38.920 --> 00:21:43.150
And I love dogs. I saw the value in the dog.

00:21:43.269 --> 00:21:45.289
If I had the chance to save one of my teammates'

00:21:45.470 --> 00:21:49.329
life, that would be, you know, it's a lot of

00:21:49.329 --> 00:21:51.569
extra work sometimes taking care of a dog. It's

00:21:51.569 --> 00:21:54.230
like babysitting a kid. And sometimes you're

00:21:54.230 --> 00:21:56.309
not used. Sometimes you are used. But I just,

00:21:56.410 --> 00:21:59.170
when the dogs are used, they are very valuable

00:21:59.170 --> 00:22:02.289
and they can save lives. And I was willing to

00:22:02.289 --> 00:22:05.390
put in all that extra work to have the opportunity.

00:22:05.470 --> 00:22:09.470
Plus, dogs are used quite a bit. And if I can

00:22:09.470 --> 00:22:12.950
make myself more valuable. by being experienced

00:22:12.950 --> 00:22:15.589
with the dog, then I might be called to go on

00:22:15.589 --> 00:22:19.630
another mission. No, it does completely. Absolutely.

00:22:19.990 --> 00:22:22.910
So, well, you talked about being a squeaky wheel

00:22:22.910 --> 00:22:25.470
when it came to sniper school. So tell me about

00:22:25.470 --> 00:22:27.950
your journey into DevGuru. Just the tenacity

00:22:27.950 --> 00:22:29.829
of you getting yourself there and the timeline.

00:22:32.269 --> 00:22:35.170
It was basically like going through buds all

00:22:35.170 --> 00:22:37.890
over again, except it's all performance driven.

00:22:38.630 --> 00:22:41.890
Everybody knows you're not going to quit. I mean,

00:22:41.910 --> 00:22:45.390
it's a bunch of seals already, so they know they're

00:22:45.390 --> 00:22:50.089
pretty tough. It's a tough selection process.

00:22:50.130 --> 00:22:52.910
It's very hard, but it's basically going through

00:22:52.910 --> 00:22:54.930
buds all over again, but performance -driven.

00:22:56.750 --> 00:22:59.430
And what was driving you to be in that team specifically?

00:22:59.549 --> 00:23:02.569
Was it just trying to punch through the ceiling

00:23:02.569 --> 00:23:07.269
of as much training as you could get? Yeah, I

00:23:07.269 --> 00:23:09.230
had nothing else going on. It seemed like a pretty

00:23:09.230 --> 00:23:11.329
cool job. I wanted to see if they would shit

00:23:11.329 --> 00:23:17.269
can me. Somehow I squeaked through. Brilliant.

00:23:17.309 --> 00:23:19.930
Well, tell me about then the journey to actually

00:23:19.930 --> 00:23:21.890
becoming a handler yourself and if there were

00:23:21.890 --> 00:23:24.730
any events prior to that that really made you

00:23:24.730 --> 00:23:29.670
decide to take that route. Yeah, when I was overseas

00:23:29.670 --> 00:23:31.690
and I saw it, I brought it up. I saw the value

00:23:31.690 --> 00:23:34.309
of the dogs and just the job and I brought it

00:23:34.309 --> 00:23:38.319
up. I was told I'd be a handler when I got back.

00:23:38.960 --> 00:23:41.180
There was a dog that we had on my first deployment.

00:23:41.259 --> 00:23:44.180
His name was Falco. I was supposed to get him

00:23:44.180 --> 00:23:47.819
when we returned from that deployment. He was

00:23:47.819 --> 00:23:49.539
a great dog. He had a couple of issues in the

00:23:49.539 --> 00:23:52.420
beginning, but he ended up being a very, very

00:23:52.420 --> 00:23:56.799
good dog. One night, we were going after a couple

00:23:56.799 --> 00:23:59.420
of bad guys right before returning home from

00:23:59.420 --> 00:24:03.859
that first deployment. Two bad guys were set

00:24:03.859 --> 00:24:07.680
up in an ambush. Falco ended up going in and

00:24:07.680 --> 00:24:10.299
engaging him. Unfortunately, Falco was shot through

00:24:10.299 --> 00:24:13.700
his chest a couple of times and he died. But,

00:24:13.759 --> 00:24:17.119
you know, he laid down his life, saving probably

00:24:17.119 --> 00:24:19.000
a couple of guys that night, at least from getting

00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:25.000
shot if not killed. So I didn't get Falco when

00:24:25.000 --> 00:24:30.160
we returned home, unfortunately. But when we

00:24:30.160 --> 00:24:32.579
got back, there was a bunch of new handlers.

00:24:33.680 --> 00:24:36.140
There was a few seal handlers and mastered arm

00:24:36.140 --> 00:24:40.220
handlers. We use mastered arms as well to be

00:24:40.220 --> 00:24:41.880
handlers. Sometimes they go through their own

00:24:41.880 --> 00:24:45.440
selection process. And so we had a group of new

00:24:45.440 --> 00:24:48.339
guys and a group of new dogs. And we all went

00:24:48.339 --> 00:24:51.059
off to California to Adler Horse International.

00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:54.299
It was about, I think it was eight or nine week

00:24:54.299 --> 00:24:57.579
dog training school. And it was great. It was

00:24:57.579 --> 00:25:02.390
great being away from. being away from work and

00:25:02.390 --> 00:25:04.369
just being a hundred percent immersed into a

00:25:04.369 --> 00:25:06.549
great dog training program where we spent all

00:25:06.549 --> 00:25:08.650
day literally working our asses off with the

00:25:08.650 --> 00:25:11.130
dogs. And then when we weren't working, we were

00:25:11.130 --> 00:25:14.710
one -on -one in a hotel room with the dog, just

00:25:14.710 --> 00:25:17.109
growing that bond. And I think it was a, it was

00:25:17.109 --> 00:25:19.869
a great trip. It was, I think sniper school was

00:25:19.869 --> 00:25:21.329
one of the, one of the best schools I went to.

00:25:21.369 --> 00:25:23.269
And that, that dog training school was definitely

00:25:23.269 --> 00:25:26.230
up there as well. Well, you mentioned losing

00:25:26.230 --> 00:25:29.950
Falco. So I thought it was very powerful. listening

00:25:29.950 --> 00:25:32.210
to you know how he was treated on the battlefield

00:25:32.210 --> 00:25:36.410
then after so kind of explain to people you know

00:25:36.410 --> 00:25:39.390
the the way that warrior dog is treated versus

00:25:39.390 --> 00:25:42.869
one of you you know the human soldiers or members

00:25:42.869 --> 00:25:45.910
of military they're treated just the same i mean

00:25:45.910 --> 00:25:48.329
i have to falco tattooed on my arm just like

00:25:48.329 --> 00:25:52.769
some of my teammates i've tattooed on me um they're

00:25:52.769 --> 00:25:58.230
how we describe it and they're like uh I'm his

00:25:58.230 --> 00:26:01.710
dad, and everybody else are his uncles. So we're

00:26:01.710 --> 00:26:04.170
pretty much one big family. They're treated just

00:26:04.170 --> 00:26:07.970
like any soldier. We ask a lot of these dogs,

00:26:08.130 --> 00:26:09.930
we ask them to go into a dark room and get into

00:26:09.930 --> 00:26:12.230
a fight with somebody trying to kill us and not

00:26:12.230 --> 00:26:18.069
let go. Unfortunately, these dogs die for us

00:26:18.069 --> 00:26:21.710
sometimes, so we treat them accordingly. When

00:26:21.710 --> 00:26:25.789
they do die, their names go up. We have a memorial

00:26:25.789 --> 00:26:29.759
wall at the command. And right beside the memorial

00:26:29.759 --> 00:26:32.160
wall for the guys, there's a dog memorial specifically

00:26:32.160 --> 00:26:37.099
for the dogs right beside the guys. We had a

00:26:37.099 --> 00:26:39.259
memorial service for Falco. He was cremated.

00:26:40.059 --> 00:26:45.619
We had a party. We celebrated his life. Even

00:26:45.619 --> 00:26:47.420
in the team room, they put up plaques for the

00:26:47.420 --> 00:26:49.420
dogs. So they're treated just like any of us.

00:26:50.079 --> 00:26:51.500
Beautiful. Well, I think that's the way it should

00:26:51.500 --> 00:26:54.809
be. So thank you for illustrating that. So what

00:26:54.809 --> 00:26:57.049
about finding Cairo? Tell me about that journey.

00:26:59.630 --> 00:27:01.569
So like I said, we've returned from that deployment.

00:27:01.730 --> 00:27:04.150
Unfortunately, Falco was no longer with us. So

00:27:04.150 --> 00:27:09.750
we had a group of good trainers and handlers

00:27:09.750 --> 00:27:12.289
that went overseas and did a buy trip and purchased

00:27:12.289 --> 00:27:15.670
dogs. And they had a bunch of brand new dogs

00:27:15.670 --> 00:27:18.450
for us. Like I said, we had a bunch of brand

00:27:18.450 --> 00:27:22.029
new seals and master at arms. And we had a few

00:27:22.029 --> 00:27:25.240
weeks there at the command to have the trainers

00:27:25.240 --> 00:27:28.640
kind of evaluate us handling the new dogs. The

00:27:28.640 --> 00:27:31.160
new handlers evaluate, have the trainers evaluate

00:27:31.160 --> 00:27:34.059
the new handlers handling the new dogs. That's

00:27:34.059 --> 00:27:43.599
a mouthful. That's a mouthful. So, um, we had

00:27:43.599 --> 00:27:46.720
good trainers, the command could, uh, good head

00:27:46.720 --> 00:27:50.039
shed. They watched us put hands on the dogs and,

00:27:50.079 --> 00:27:52.200
um, every dog is different. Just like every person.

00:27:52.220 --> 00:27:55.390
Right. So. We had a few weeks there just to kind

00:27:55.390 --> 00:27:57.710
of see what temperament the dog was and what

00:27:57.710 --> 00:27:59.890
temperament the handler was. The master at arms

00:27:59.890 --> 00:28:02.009
were previous handlers, dog handlers as well.

00:28:02.029 --> 00:28:04.970
So they had more experience handling dogs and

00:28:04.970 --> 00:28:08.029
less experience being seals. So the seals had

00:28:08.029 --> 00:28:10.990
less experience with the dogs and more experience

00:28:10.990 --> 00:28:15.349
being seals. So we would probably have first

00:28:15.349 --> 00:28:18.210
pick usually just, you know, just depending on

00:28:18.210 --> 00:28:21.700
the temperament of the dog. Since the master

00:28:21.700 --> 00:28:23.440
at arms can probably handle a dog a little bit

00:28:23.440 --> 00:28:25.099
better, they would be paired up with maybe a

00:28:25.099 --> 00:28:30.559
little bit more of the stubborn dogs. But there's

00:28:30.559 --> 00:28:32.839
a couple of dogs I had my eye on in the beginning.

00:28:32.900 --> 00:28:39.440
One was Bronco and one was Cairo. And the trainers

00:28:39.440 --> 00:28:43.039
made the call to give me Cairo. And I didn't

00:28:43.039 --> 00:28:44.619
really care either way. I didn't really know

00:28:44.619 --> 00:28:47.960
what I was doing. I was just a pretty young guy.

00:28:48.019 --> 00:28:50.799
I was a SEAL. I wasn't a dog handler. I know

00:28:50.799 --> 00:28:54.240
what I had seen on deployment. But as far as

00:28:54.240 --> 00:28:56.259
handling a dog, I had pretty much zero experience.

00:28:56.680 --> 00:28:59.720
That was a whole new world to dive into. I had

00:28:59.720 --> 00:29:03.099
to step out of my comfort zone. Dogs don't speak

00:29:03.099 --> 00:29:06.519
human. So using your body language and voice

00:29:06.519 --> 00:29:09.799
infliction and all that stuff was pretty new

00:29:09.799 --> 00:29:12.420
to me. All that whole emotions run up and down

00:29:12.420 --> 00:29:15.859
the leash I had to get used to. It was a new

00:29:15.859 --> 00:29:17.220
world I was stepping into, but it was really

00:29:17.220 --> 00:29:21.339
great. to learn all that. Um, but like I said,

00:29:21.359 --> 00:29:23.420
I didn't know really much about temperaments

00:29:23.420 --> 00:29:25.200
of dogs and what I was looking for. I knew they

00:29:25.200 --> 00:29:26.980
were all, all the dogs that they selected were

00:29:26.980 --> 00:29:29.960
great workers and the trainers made the, made

00:29:29.960 --> 00:29:32.599
the choice to give me Cairo. And I think it was

00:29:32.599 --> 00:29:34.299
a pretty good choice. It worked out pretty well.

00:29:34.500 --> 00:29:39.200
I'd say so. So thanks guys. So for people listening,

00:29:39.279 --> 00:29:41.480
obviously a lot of us are aware of canine, maybe

00:29:41.480 --> 00:29:43.339
in the first responder community, the law enforcement

00:29:43.339 --> 00:29:46.779
side, tell me the kind of, um, the roles that

00:29:46.779 --> 00:29:50.900
these dogs can play and how they are able to

00:29:50.900 --> 00:29:54.359
heighten your level of safety when you're on

00:29:54.359 --> 00:29:58.259
deployment. Yeah, just the same as law enforcement.

00:29:58.579 --> 00:30:00.299
I mean, the dog just depends what dog you have.

00:30:01.799 --> 00:30:07.279
Like we use the Malinois, the Belgian Malinois

00:30:07.279 --> 00:30:10.059
or the Dutch Shepherd. The Belgian Malinois is

00:30:10.059 --> 00:30:12.180
just like the German Shepherd, just a little

00:30:12.180 --> 00:30:14.319
smaller, a little shorter hair, maybe a little

00:30:14.319 --> 00:30:19.920
more agile. But they can be used for apprehension

00:30:19.920 --> 00:30:24.579
or for bite work. And just like the shepherds,

00:30:24.579 --> 00:30:27.500
except when we are working overseas, it's a little

00:30:27.500 --> 00:30:31.119
hotter. We might be walking in a little ways

00:30:31.119 --> 00:30:33.099
and we need the dogs to be a little smaller,

00:30:33.140 --> 00:30:36.599
a little more agile. And the Malinois are great

00:30:36.599 --> 00:30:39.720
for that. Shepherds are great working dogs, but

00:30:39.720 --> 00:30:43.839
as far as other detection, you can teach them

00:30:43.839 --> 00:30:48.029
to... To detect narcotics, we don't need that.

00:30:48.309 --> 00:30:52.630
So we teach them to detect explosive odor, which

00:30:52.630 --> 00:30:54.829
is a whole other evolution in itself. But that's

00:30:54.829 --> 00:30:56.549
what our dogs are. They're dual -purpose dogs

00:30:56.549 --> 00:31:01.609
for man odor and explosive odor. Now, when I

00:31:01.609 --> 00:31:03.849
heard you explaining that and some of the training,

00:31:04.069 --> 00:31:08.410
it kind of struck me, a question in my head.

00:31:09.210 --> 00:31:12.799
Do you think that more dogs... within our military

00:31:12.799 --> 00:31:15.480
would keep some of these men and women safer

00:31:15.480 --> 00:31:17.319
with some of these IEDs that we're seeing, or

00:31:17.319 --> 00:31:21.339
is that a separate kind of bomb odor? I mean,

00:31:21.359 --> 00:31:23.400
the explosive odor is very important. I think

00:31:23.400 --> 00:31:27.220
you can have single -purpose dogs that are made

00:31:27.220 --> 00:31:29.940
just for explosive odor that can focus just on

00:31:29.940 --> 00:31:33.400
that odor and maybe be a little bit safer. With

00:31:33.400 --> 00:31:35.279
us, we were doing dual -purpose because we needed

00:31:35.279 --> 00:31:38.680
them to find bad guys, so they needed to be trained

00:31:38.680 --> 00:31:41.039
on man odor, which was... Once they had that

00:31:41.039 --> 00:31:42.920
down, it was pretty easy to keep them engaged.

00:31:43.539 --> 00:31:47.640
They loved that fight. It was the explosive odor

00:31:47.640 --> 00:31:51.099
that was harder to keep them engaged on sometimes.

00:31:51.579 --> 00:31:54.339
But we did it. You just have to put in the effort

00:31:54.339 --> 00:31:56.500
and put in the work and put in the hours and

00:31:56.500 --> 00:32:00.079
make sure that they are... You just got to keep

00:32:00.079 --> 00:32:02.160
it fun. Make sure the dog's happy. The dog wants

00:32:02.160 --> 00:32:04.000
to make you happy. And you just have to put in

00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:05.559
the work and make it as fun as possible. But

00:32:05.559 --> 00:32:09.269
it can be a task. But using a single -purpose

00:32:09.269 --> 00:32:11.609
dog and just keeping it updated on odor, on explosive

00:32:11.609 --> 00:32:15.769
odor, would be nice. Yeah, it just seems like

00:32:15.769 --> 00:32:18.109
that's what's killing so many of our servicemen

00:32:18.109 --> 00:32:21.329
and women. And if you were able to have such

00:32:21.329 --> 00:32:24.690
success within your team with the canines, it

00:32:24.690 --> 00:32:26.769
kind of makes me think, would that be a good

00:32:26.769 --> 00:32:29.970
application military -wide? I don't know, I'm

00:32:29.970 --> 00:32:33.309
just a fireman. No, I think they are. It's just

00:32:33.309 --> 00:32:36.859
a lot of work. keep these dogs up to date but

00:32:36.859 --> 00:32:39.339
I know the military has a lot of great dog programs

00:32:39.339 --> 00:32:42.339
for us we just had our program that we worked

00:32:42.339 --> 00:32:45.039
on and it was a lot of work just to keep that

00:32:45.039 --> 00:32:48.740
program up alone and you know there's a for that

00:32:48.740 --> 00:32:51.140
kind of demand of dogs it's a lot of explosive

00:32:51.140 --> 00:32:53.960
dogs it's it's not easy to find a dog that's

00:32:53.960 --> 00:32:56.460
a that's willing to do the work and then once

00:32:56.460 --> 00:32:57.960
they are willing to do the work you got to put

00:32:57.960 --> 00:33:00.680
in a lot of work to keep them up to date you

00:33:00.680 --> 00:33:04.759
know so but there are a lot of Good programs

00:33:04.759 --> 00:33:06.619
out there. There's definitely a bunch of good

00:33:06.619 --> 00:33:09.680
military programs. Brilliant. Right. Well, then

00:33:09.680 --> 00:33:13.380
with Cairo, what's the first kind of memorable

00:33:13.380 --> 00:33:16.279
mission that you guys ran together where he was

00:33:16.279 --> 00:33:18.319
actually able to do what he was trained for?

00:33:21.039 --> 00:33:23.339
Let's see when the first memorable one is. It's

00:33:23.339 --> 00:33:25.220
just the first op that we ever went on. It was

00:33:25.220 --> 00:33:31.099
my first overseas operation handling a dog. So

00:33:31.099 --> 00:33:33.519
I was a little nervous. Had a little bit of experience,

00:33:33.940 --> 00:33:36.619
but I was still pretty new with my team as well.

00:33:37.660 --> 00:33:40.099
You know, a little bit, but not like I'd been

00:33:40.099 --> 00:33:42.940
around a long time. And then my first operation

00:33:42.940 --> 00:33:44.519
with the dog, so it's kind of nerve -wracking.

00:33:44.599 --> 00:33:45.900
You don't want to mess it up, and you never know.

00:33:46.759 --> 00:33:48.859
We put in a lot of work. You know, like I said

00:33:48.859 --> 00:33:51.900
earlier, I have to keep up with all of my tasks

00:33:51.900 --> 00:33:55.119
as a SEAL, which is quite a bit. You know, there's

00:33:55.119 --> 00:33:57.019
a couple things that goes into that. And then

00:33:57.019 --> 00:34:02.009
trying to prepare the dog. to get ready for deployment

00:34:02.009 --> 00:34:04.269
was also a lot of work so you're putting in all

00:34:04.269 --> 00:34:06.630
that work and you're hoping the dog and you perform

00:34:06.630 --> 00:34:09.630
to the best of your ability when it finally comes

00:34:09.630 --> 00:34:11.369
down to it right so it's a little nerve -wracking

00:34:11.369 --> 00:34:17.829
but um we literally plan for we try to plan for

00:34:17.829 --> 00:34:20.030
everything we like i said just the school that

00:34:20.030 --> 00:34:22.170
we went to alone in california was eight nine

00:34:22.170 --> 00:34:24.690
weeks and that was a great school but it didn't

00:34:24.690 --> 00:34:28.690
stop there we once we returned home training

00:34:28.690 --> 00:34:32.070
didn't end we um We went through every pretty

00:34:32.070 --> 00:34:34.409
much rehearsal, everything that we could think

00:34:34.409 --> 00:34:37.909
of to get ready and finally show up to the compound

00:34:37.909 --> 00:34:41.670
overseas. And we opened the gates. And there's

00:34:41.670 --> 00:34:43.550
a whole courtyard full of sheep. And that's like

00:34:43.550 --> 00:34:46.050
the one thing that we didn't experiment with.

00:34:46.570 --> 00:34:50.050
See, my dog would be gone. Yeah, you think? Would

00:34:50.050 --> 00:34:53.030
you go trying to attack him? I don't know. I

00:34:53.030 --> 00:34:55.309
think she would actually kill him or anything.

00:34:55.369 --> 00:34:56.789
But she'd certainly chase him and bite their

00:34:56.789 --> 00:34:59.989
ass. Yeah, yeah, just go have fun. So I wasn't

00:34:59.989 --> 00:35:02.170
sure. That's the one thing that we didn't plan

00:35:02.170 --> 00:35:04.809
for was the whole... It was literally pretty...

00:35:04.809 --> 00:35:06.610
It was packed. It wasn't like you can't walk

00:35:06.610 --> 00:35:10.760
through it. And we're having to be quiet, too,

00:35:10.900 --> 00:35:13.980
so I'm just trying to figure out what to do.

00:35:14.559 --> 00:35:16.679
It's like, we thought we were ready, we thought

00:35:16.679 --> 00:35:18.400
we were ready. You open up the courtyard and

00:35:18.400 --> 00:35:20.119
it's just full of sheep. So, you know, we made

00:35:20.119 --> 00:35:25.719
it work. I hoisted them up and put them on my

00:35:25.719 --> 00:35:27.780
back and we just made our way nice and quiet

00:35:27.780 --> 00:35:31.380
through the sheep. And the operation went off

00:35:31.380 --> 00:35:34.239
without a problem. Knowing what I know now, though.

00:35:35.079 --> 00:35:37.360
Because we did practice that later on. I brought

00:35:37.360 --> 00:35:38.940
him around a couple of animals. He doesn't care

00:35:38.940 --> 00:35:41.280
about animals. I mean, some dogs, you never know.

00:35:41.320 --> 00:35:44.460
Some dogs are a little bit animal aggressive

00:35:44.460 --> 00:35:46.500
and some dogs aren't. And I didn't know it at

00:35:46.500 --> 00:35:47.960
the time, but Cairo would have been just fine.

00:35:48.119 --> 00:35:49.619
He wouldn't have messed with the sheep at all.

00:35:50.860 --> 00:35:52.739
That's amazing. Now, that reminds me of another

00:35:52.739 --> 00:35:54.440
story. I'd love for you to tell that as well,

00:35:54.500 --> 00:35:57.320
if you wouldn't mind. The baby story. Because

00:35:57.320 --> 00:36:00.360
that, again, illustrates Cairo's temperament

00:36:00.360 --> 00:36:04.659
and the level of training combined. Yeah, we

00:36:04.659 --> 00:36:07.119
were doing a call out getting people to come

00:36:07.119 --> 00:36:09.619
out of the building and some people weren't listening

00:36:09.619 --> 00:36:13.199
and a woman had left her child wrapped up in

00:36:13.199 --> 00:36:17.539
some blankets. Really hard to see. So at the

00:36:17.539 --> 00:36:20.619
end of the call out, the call was made to send

00:36:20.619 --> 00:36:23.039
Cairo in to engage a guy that wasn't listening.

00:36:24.480 --> 00:36:27.619
When I sent Cairo in, he actually went up to

00:36:27.619 --> 00:36:31.000
the bundle, the bundle of clothes that the baby

00:36:31.000 --> 00:36:34.300
was wrapped in. and he didn't do anything. He

00:36:34.300 --> 00:36:37.880
just sniffed it, and then he split into the other

00:36:37.880 --> 00:36:40.280
room and engaged the guy that was hiding behind

00:36:40.280 --> 00:36:43.320
some women, and we were able to get that guy

00:36:43.320 --> 00:36:46.960
under custody and question him, but it was pretty

00:36:46.960 --> 00:36:48.900
crazy how Cairo, some dogs, you know, the dogs

00:36:48.900 --> 00:36:50.380
talk with their mouth, and they get excited.

00:36:50.420 --> 00:36:51.980
Sometimes they'll go into rooms, and they'll

00:36:51.980 --> 00:36:55.920
pick up pillows and blankets, and Cairo didn't.

00:36:55.920 --> 00:36:59.139
He just, yeah, it was lucky. He went into the

00:36:59.139 --> 00:37:00.940
room. He smelled the baby. He knew the baby wasn't

00:37:00.940 --> 00:37:04.150
a threat, and then... went into the other room

00:37:04.150 --> 00:37:08.190
and engaged the threat it was uh ended up working

00:37:08.190 --> 00:37:11.210
out well that's incredible now this is a complete

00:37:11.210 --> 00:37:14.429
side note then some of the breeds german shepherds

00:37:14.429 --> 00:37:17.289
malinois um you know pitbulls obviously have

00:37:18.010 --> 00:37:21.409
a bad name in the civilian community usually

00:37:21.409 --> 00:37:24.150
because of more isolated incidents what's your

00:37:24.150 --> 00:37:27.949
perspective as a canine handler on breeds you

00:37:27.949 --> 00:37:30.650
know specifically just blaming an entire breed

00:37:30.650 --> 00:37:33.530
versus either temperament of that breed or even

00:37:33.530 --> 00:37:36.929
you know the factor that we have as as handlers

00:37:36.929 --> 00:37:41.309
or owners on the behavior of that dog yeah i

00:37:41.309 --> 00:37:44.110
think dogs are just like people every person's

00:37:44.110 --> 00:37:45.429
different everybody has their own temperament

00:37:45.429 --> 00:37:48.599
so But if you're getting a breed, know what kind

00:37:48.599 --> 00:37:50.860
of breed you're getting as well. So it's not

00:37:50.860 --> 00:37:53.960
like if you buy a Malinois, know what you're

00:37:53.960 --> 00:37:55.559
buying. You're buying a working dog. It's like

00:37:55.559 --> 00:37:58.619
buying a husky or even a lab is a hunting dog.

00:37:58.659 --> 00:38:00.480
It's a working dog. They have a lot of energy

00:38:00.480 --> 00:38:05.000
sometimes. So I think to lump all, so say pit

00:38:05.000 --> 00:38:07.300
bulls into one bad category, I had pit bulls

00:38:07.300 --> 00:38:10.039
growing up that were awesome. So I think that's

00:38:10.039 --> 00:38:13.039
just, I think that's pretty stupid. I think it's

00:38:13.039 --> 00:38:15.480
on the owner to know what kind of dog breed you're

00:38:15.480 --> 00:38:18.570
getting. And then if you do get a dog that needs

00:38:18.570 --> 00:38:23.829
work, it's on you as an owner, as a human, to

00:38:23.829 --> 00:38:26.869
give that dog a good home and give it the proper

00:38:26.869 --> 00:38:28.570
training it needs and the proper stimulation

00:38:28.570 --> 00:38:31.309
it needs. And sometimes you will get an asshole

00:38:31.309 --> 00:38:33.989
dog. Sometimes it just happens, man. Sometimes

00:38:33.989 --> 00:38:38.110
you get asshole people. Yes. It happens. I don't

00:38:38.110 --> 00:38:40.849
know why. And if you have that kind of dog, then

00:38:40.849 --> 00:38:44.119
you just take it to… somebody that might be able

00:38:44.119 --> 00:38:47.420
to untrain that bad temperament out of them and

00:38:47.420 --> 00:38:50.159
if they give you maybe try a couple of different

00:38:50.159 --> 00:38:53.800
people reliable people and if you just have an

00:38:53.800 --> 00:38:55.800
asshole dog then maybe that dog needs to go to

00:38:55.800 --> 00:38:57.380
a different home and you just need to know that

00:38:57.380 --> 00:39:00.719
and accept that yeah absolutely that's the only

00:39:00.719 --> 00:39:02.300
problem with the asshole peoples they seem to

00:39:02.300 --> 00:39:08.039
get a lot of television time whoops yeah that's

00:39:08.039 --> 00:39:10.679
my advice i don't know what else No, that's brilliant.

00:39:10.820 --> 00:39:14.219
I appreciate it. Thank you. So obviously, you

00:39:14.219 --> 00:39:16.539
know, the back end of your story is definitely

00:39:16.539 --> 00:39:20.159
a powerful mental health element to it. You talk

00:39:20.159 --> 00:39:23.619
about this in the book. You're out there as a

00:39:23.619 --> 00:39:25.840
SEAL yourself. Tell me about the impact when

00:39:25.840 --> 00:39:28.579
you started losing some friends. I mean, you

00:39:28.579 --> 00:39:31.400
have one impact as far as within the mission

00:39:31.400 --> 00:39:33.219
itself. But what was the kind of ripple effect

00:39:33.219 --> 00:39:37.599
when you started losing brothers out there? It

00:39:37.599 --> 00:39:41.719
was pretty significant. I would say that was

00:39:41.719 --> 00:39:46.800
what affected me the most. I had traumatic brain

00:39:46.800 --> 00:39:49.780
injury as well, TBIs. There was a lot of blast

00:39:49.780 --> 00:39:53.099
exposure over the years, whether it's breaching

00:39:53.099 --> 00:39:59.300
or rockets or whatever. I think that, multiple

00:39:59.300 --> 00:40:03.179
TBIs over the years, along with some loss of

00:40:03.179 --> 00:40:06.380
my friends. My hair fell out a few times. I said

00:40:06.380 --> 00:40:09.780
it was alopecia. which alopecia is either hereditary

00:40:09.780 --> 00:40:14.219
or stress -induced. It wasn't that hard to figure

00:40:14.219 --> 00:40:16.800
out. My hair would fall out in large clumps after

00:40:16.800 --> 00:40:18.940
I lost a few of my friends, so I think that had

00:40:18.940 --> 00:40:21.059
some stress. I think that was a lot of stress.

00:40:21.960 --> 00:40:25.920
I think that along with the TBI and some also

00:40:25.920 --> 00:40:29.960
self -induced or self -medicating, I take personal

00:40:29.960 --> 00:40:31.920
responsibility for a lot of my actions as well,

00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:36.449
but I think all three of those combined. sent

00:40:36.449 --> 00:40:40.269
me into a really bad place. I was blown up in

00:40:40.269 --> 00:40:42.909
2012 by a hand grenade and I think that was kind

00:40:42.909 --> 00:40:44.989
of the tipping point to where I was no longer

00:40:44.989 --> 00:40:49.190
able to work or function or at least where I

00:40:49.190 --> 00:40:52.989
can pull it together and work but I didn't feel

00:40:52.989 --> 00:40:55.210
as if I was safe. I might end up getting somebody

00:40:55.210 --> 00:40:57.889
killed or myself killed which would not be clear

00:40:57.889 --> 00:40:59.969
but if I make a mistake I started getting real

00:40:59.969 --> 00:41:03.030
bad migraines and my memory went to shit and

00:41:03.030 --> 00:41:08.320
a bunch of other problems. When did you first

00:41:08.320 --> 00:41:09.760
start seeing that? Because I want to get to that

00:41:09.760 --> 00:41:13.000
in more detail later in the timeline, as it were.

00:41:13.119 --> 00:41:15.500
But when did you find yourself kind of leaning

00:41:15.500 --> 00:41:18.420
on alcohol or some other elements when you were

00:41:18.420 --> 00:41:21.219
still deploying? I think it was a slow progression.

00:41:21.340 --> 00:41:23.940
I think I drank in the military even beforehand.

00:41:24.159 --> 00:41:28.500
But we used to go out and have fun and celebrate

00:41:28.500 --> 00:41:30.820
with my friends. And there's a difference between

00:41:30.820 --> 00:41:35.590
that and using alcohol as a medication. to either

00:41:35.590 --> 00:41:39.210
sleep or get through some stuff. So it's, it's,

00:41:39.210 --> 00:41:42.829
it's, you can't exactly put my finger on when

00:41:42.829 --> 00:41:44.949
that transition happened, but I think it was

00:41:44.949 --> 00:41:48.869
a slow transition over the years. I mean, the

00:41:48.869 --> 00:41:52.650
more brain injury, the more loss of my friends

00:41:52.650 --> 00:41:54.389
and then the more alcohol on top of that, I think

00:41:54.389 --> 00:41:58.510
just, it turned from one thing to a different

00:41:58.510 --> 00:42:01.219
thing. Yeah. Well, I think it's an important

00:42:01.219 --> 00:42:02.639
perspective as well, because I think that's what

00:42:02.639 --> 00:42:04.860
happens to most people. People think that, you

00:42:04.860 --> 00:42:07.039
know, PTSD is from an acute event. So if you

00:42:07.039 --> 00:42:09.340
weren't at the World Trade Center or the Vegas

00:42:09.340 --> 00:42:11.519
shooting, then you've got no business feeling

00:42:11.519 --> 00:42:14.480
the way you feel. Whereas I think a lot of us,

00:42:14.480 --> 00:42:17.920
it's, you know, 5, 10, 15, 20 years in the military

00:42:17.920 --> 00:42:21.199
as a firefighter, as a police officer, as a corrections

00:42:21.199 --> 00:42:24.920
officer, whatever it is. And if it's that chronic

00:42:24.920 --> 00:42:28.340
as opposed to acute. it sneaks up on you and

00:42:28.340 --> 00:42:30.300
you don't realize until you're about to drown

00:42:30.300 --> 00:42:33.280
that's it i mean i can go with anybody we all

00:42:33.280 --> 00:42:34.900
deal with our own trauma just because i'm a seal

00:42:34.900 --> 00:42:38.780
it's just i'm doing all this just to uh see if

00:42:38.780 --> 00:42:40.219
i get people's attention but yeah but that's

00:42:40.219 --> 00:42:42.400
a good point here navy seals having some issues

00:42:42.400 --> 00:42:45.000
it was a slow progression but that can go with

00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:47.659
anybody whether you're exposed to you're a paramedic

00:42:47.659 --> 00:42:49.239
seeing terrible things every night or a police

00:42:49.239 --> 00:42:52.059
officer getting exposed to terrible things or

00:42:52.059 --> 00:42:55.780
any anybody that's getting repeat of head trauma

00:42:56.400 --> 00:42:58.840
Over the years, you know, you don't have to have

00:42:58.840 --> 00:43:01.139
one horrific event. But if you're exposed to

00:43:01.139 --> 00:43:03.219
small, tragic events, we all deal with our things

00:43:03.219 --> 00:43:06.360
in different ways. Everybody has their ups and

00:43:06.360 --> 00:43:09.079
everybody has their downs. You just got to get

00:43:09.079 --> 00:43:11.539
through them. But, yeah, mine was a slow progression.

00:43:13.400 --> 00:43:15.719
I think a lot of the concussion blasts over the

00:43:15.719 --> 00:43:18.440
years, I was a pretty high -functioning individual.

00:43:19.199 --> 00:43:23.219
I was a pretty happy person. And I did pretty

00:43:23.219 --> 00:43:26.409
well in my career. I made it pretty far. And

00:43:26.409 --> 00:43:28.150
I got to participate in some pretty cool things.

00:43:29.130 --> 00:43:31.190
So I was pretty high functioning. And then all

00:43:31.190 --> 00:43:33.849
of a sudden, I don't know where it happened or

00:43:33.849 --> 00:43:36.329
what happened exactly. But I think with all of

00:43:36.329 --> 00:43:41.349
those things, with the repeated blast exposure

00:43:41.349 --> 00:43:44.489
and the loss of my friends and the alcohol on

00:43:44.489 --> 00:43:47.989
top of that, I went from one job that I loved

00:43:47.989 --> 00:43:51.210
to not being able to function, barely. I ended

00:43:51.210 --> 00:43:54.880
up drinking myself out of a job once I... I couldn't

00:43:54.880 --> 00:43:56.619
be in the military anymore, so they medically

00:43:56.619 --> 00:43:58.539
retired me. And then I drank myself out of my

00:43:58.539 --> 00:44:02.780
second job. And then I ended up moving back in

00:44:02.780 --> 00:44:06.000
with my parents for a while and trying to figure

00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:08.000
out what I wanted to do. And I just couldn't

00:44:08.000 --> 00:44:11.639
figure it out. It's your own brain, so it's kind

00:44:11.639 --> 00:44:14.920
of a weird place to be in, right? My brain wasn't

00:44:14.920 --> 00:44:19.099
functioning properly. I knew I could function

00:44:19.099 --> 00:44:21.980
at one level, and then all of a sudden... It's

00:44:21.980 --> 00:44:26.059
either I'm making this stuff up or my shit's

00:44:26.059 --> 00:44:30.039
not working right anymore. But me putting alcohol

00:44:30.039 --> 00:44:33.679
on top of that definitely was not the right answer.

00:44:34.420 --> 00:44:37.960
I was basically drinking myself to death. Now,

00:44:37.960 --> 00:44:42.039
what about your sleep? How was your sleep through

00:44:42.039 --> 00:44:45.539
deployment and then onwards? Well, I would drink

00:44:45.539 --> 00:44:48.670
myself to sleep. take sleeping meds, but I didn't

00:44:48.670 --> 00:44:50.869
want to take all the antidepressants the VA wanted

00:44:50.869 --> 00:44:54.309
to put me on or the Ambien or stuff. I had enough

00:44:54.309 --> 00:44:59.590
problems with the booze. So I didn't want to

00:44:59.590 --> 00:45:00.969
take all that stuff. I would just drink myself

00:45:00.969 --> 00:45:02.849
to sleep. But there's great people and there's

00:45:02.849 --> 00:45:05.989
great programs out there. I eventually, one of

00:45:05.989 --> 00:45:08.030
my best friends, his name is Jared Shaw, he drug

00:45:08.030 --> 00:45:11.510
me. So I was just secluding. I ended up getting

00:45:11.510 --> 00:45:13.809
a house and I spent a couple months at home with

00:45:13.809 --> 00:45:15.469
my parents and visiting them and I ended up getting

00:45:15.469 --> 00:45:17.769
a house, but I still wasn't the same. My brain

00:45:17.769 --> 00:45:19.750
wasn't functioning. I just wasn't I wasn't the

00:45:19.750 --> 00:45:22.789
same person. So my buddy Jared Shaw drug me to

00:45:22.789 --> 00:45:27.730
he drug me out of my house and got me to my first

00:45:27.730 --> 00:45:29.869
kind of brain treatment center. And then it's

00:45:29.869 --> 00:45:31.710
been a long journey since then. And I'm still

00:45:31.710 --> 00:45:34.989
working on it. But I've learned a few things

00:45:34.989 --> 00:45:38.610
about, you know, you're definitely diet has gotten

00:45:38.610 --> 00:45:43.789
better. I learned about fasting and a few brain

00:45:43.789 --> 00:45:47.639
treatments that I attended were great. try to

00:45:47.639 --> 00:45:50.059
get into meditating and breathing and yoga and

00:45:50.059 --> 00:45:53.260
a couple of other healthy options that uh seem

00:45:53.260 --> 00:45:57.039
to help me but it's still a process absolutely

00:45:57.039 --> 00:45:58.780
well i think that's what people miss about injuries

00:45:58.780 --> 00:46:01.320
is you know they don't just go away you learn

00:46:01.320 --> 00:46:05.260
to to mitigate the symptoms and obviously you're

00:46:05.260 --> 00:46:07.420
trying to get to the core but damage is damage

00:46:07.420 --> 00:46:10.179
so i've got for example a back injury that i

00:46:10.179 --> 00:46:12.280
can function extremely well but if i don't do

00:46:12.280 --> 00:46:14.719
my movement practices the pain starts to come

00:46:14.719 --> 00:46:16.960
back because the injury is still there. And it's

00:46:16.960 --> 00:46:19.239
the same, I'm sure, with the TBIs. But what's

00:46:19.239 --> 00:46:21.659
interesting with TBI, I had a few conversations

00:46:21.659 --> 00:46:24.760
with one of your fellow SEALs, Dr. Kirk Parsley,

00:46:24.860 --> 00:46:29.599
who is like a sleep medicine guru now. And he

00:46:29.599 --> 00:46:33.219
was talking about sleep deprivation and TBI actually

00:46:33.219 --> 00:46:35.820
mimic each other. The myelin sheath on the nerve

00:46:35.820 --> 00:46:39.920
degenerate on both of those. For your profession

00:46:39.920 --> 00:46:42.619
and for, say, law enforcement, and let's also

00:46:42.619 --> 00:46:45.280
look at football and mixed martial arts, where

00:46:45.280 --> 00:46:47.800
you've got TBIs and then you're coupling it with

00:46:47.800 --> 00:46:50.320
sleep deprivation, whether it's shift work like

00:46:50.320 --> 00:46:52.300
when you're on deployment and when we're working,

00:46:52.500 --> 00:46:55.219
or whether it's shitty quality sleep because

00:46:55.219 --> 00:46:57.539
we're drinking ourselves to sleep or we're taking

00:46:57.539 --> 00:46:59.440
Ambien, which doesn't put you to sleep. It makes

00:46:59.440 --> 00:47:01.579
you unconscious, a very different thing. You're

00:47:01.579 --> 00:47:04.960
then amplifying all those areas. So TBI and sleep

00:47:04.960 --> 00:47:07.530
deprivation on top of each other is a... you

00:47:07.530 --> 00:47:10.829
know, toxic cocktail. Yeah, definitely. I think

00:47:10.829 --> 00:47:13.070
they all start adding up. And when I was 20 in

00:47:13.070 --> 00:47:14.769
my twenties, it was okay. I'm only in my thirties.

00:47:14.809 --> 00:47:20.190
I'm 36 now, but I think with everything, it just,

00:47:20.250 --> 00:47:22.309
I feel it a lot more these days. I don't drink

00:47:22.309 --> 00:47:25.510
anymore, so I quit boozing, but that doesn't

00:47:25.510 --> 00:47:28.449
mean I, I have a sleep apnea machine, which of

00:47:28.449 --> 00:47:32.489
course I fucking love that thing. So I went the

00:47:32.489 --> 00:47:35.869
last two weeks without using it and I went shit

00:47:35.869 --> 00:47:39.769
on my diet. And it was just like, just because

00:47:39.769 --> 00:47:41.369
I'm not boozing anymore doesn't mean I can't

00:47:41.369 --> 00:47:45.309
feel like shit. I definitely feel it. I feel

00:47:45.309 --> 00:47:47.349
it today, and I've been back on track for a couple

00:47:47.349 --> 00:47:49.690
of days now. And I'm still trying to recover

00:47:49.690 --> 00:47:52.550
from my... So think about if I wasn't using all

00:47:52.550 --> 00:47:55.030
of that stuff, I was eating like shit, not using

00:47:55.030 --> 00:47:57.369
my sleep machine, and I was drinking on top of

00:47:57.369 --> 00:48:00.170
that, I'd probably end up getting sick. My immune

00:48:00.170 --> 00:48:02.070
system would completely shit the bed. But now

00:48:02.070 --> 00:48:05.750
that I've watched my diet and I fast, I'm going

00:48:05.750 --> 00:48:07.960
to fast for... I'm going to probably fast for

00:48:07.960 --> 00:48:11.039
a few days and get back on track and use all

00:48:11.039 --> 00:48:13.300
the tools that I'm supposed to be using. And

00:48:13.300 --> 00:48:16.500
yeah, my brain fog, I can feel it in my head.

00:48:17.099 --> 00:48:19.940
I guarantee you it's going to clean up. No problem.

00:48:20.650 --> 00:48:22.989
yeah well i mean i have it and i only just did

00:48:22.989 --> 00:48:25.409
shift work for 14 years you know and i did martial

00:48:25.409 --> 00:48:27.170
arts a lot so i'm sure there was some head trauma

00:48:27.170 --> 00:48:30.090
in there too but yeah that's my biggest complaint

00:48:30.090 --> 00:48:32.489
and then tinnitus as well but i actually got

00:48:32.489 --> 00:48:34.530
migraines for many years too i know you talk

00:48:34.530 --> 00:48:36.969
about your horrendous migraines so there's definitely

00:48:36.969 --> 00:48:39.190
parallels i mean i wasn't blown up i'll tell

00:48:39.190 --> 00:48:41.190
you know i'll tell you that right now but um

00:48:41.190 --> 00:48:43.849
yeah even even the lesser version of what you

00:48:43.849 --> 00:48:46.190
went through can still have you know an impact

00:48:46.190 --> 00:48:48.929
on brain health Yeah, but I wouldn't even call

00:48:48.929 --> 00:48:50.110
it the lesser versions. Everybody goes through

00:48:50.110 --> 00:48:52.070
their own stuff. And like you said, you can relate.

00:48:52.289 --> 00:48:54.750
You just did your, my story just looks different

00:48:54.750 --> 00:48:56.769
than yours, but you, yeah, those migraines were

00:48:56.769 --> 00:48:59.570
terrible. I think it was, you're probably a little

00:48:59.570 --> 00:49:01.909
stressed. I was definitely a little stressed.

00:49:02.590 --> 00:49:04.849
I think that had a lot to do with it. And now

00:49:04.849 --> 00:49:07.809
that I kind of have a different approach to life,

00:49:07.949 --> 00:49:10.150
my migraines aren't nearly as bad. I mean, my

00:49:10.150 --> 00:49:12.570
life's not perfect, but I can't complain. My

00:49:12.570 --> 00:49:18.170
sleep has improved. I don't booze anymore. I

00:49:18.170 --> 00:49:20.389
just do the best I can every day. I try to do

00:49:20.389 --> 00:49:22.949
a lot of breathing. I pray every morning. I try

00:49:22.949 --> 00:49:24.789
to do some breathing when I do that and stretch.

00:49:25.929 --> 00:49:27.570
That's kind of like my anchor in the morning.

00:49:27.710 --> 00:49:30.909
I at least get out there and move around a little

00:49:30.909 --> 00:49:33.829
bit and do some deep breaths and pray. Then I'll

00:49:33.829 --> 00:49:37.210
see where that leads me. Excellent. That's such

00:49:37.210 --> 00:49:40.210
a great morning routine as well. I think so many

00:49:40.210 --> 00:49:41.969
of us get monkey mind on top of the brain fog.

00:49:42.679 --> 00:49:45.000
brain just won't shut the fuck up so right i

00:49:45.000 --> 00:49:47.360
know man if i can at least give that 10 -15 minutes

00:49:47.360 --> 00:49:49.860
in the morning it's at least something yes absolutely

00:49:49.860 --> 00:49:51.780
well i want to go back chronologically because

00:49:51.780 --> 00:49:53.539
there's some you know big benchmarks that we

00:49:53.539 --> 00:49:56.599
haven't got to yet the first one is um cairo

00:49:56.599 --> 00:49:58.780
shooting because obviously that's a very powerful

00:49:58.780 --> 00:50:00.920
moment and another layer of trauma for both of

00:50:00.920 --> 00:50:05.960
you him and you so tell me about that oh yeah

00:50:05.960 --> 00:50:09.139
it was kind of like um the same event where falco

00:50:09.139 --> 00:50:14.659
got shot It was just we were a different part

00:50:14.659 --> 00:50:16.940
of Afghanistan. We were on our way to the target

00:50:16.940 --> 00:50:20.380
compound. They somehow figured out we were coming

00:50:20.380 --> 00:50:24.400
and they fled the target on some motorcycles.

00:50:25.460 --> 00:50:29.139
Before we could engage them, the bad guys made

00:50:29.139 --> 00:50:31.079
their way into a tree line. We weren't allowed

00:50:31.079 --> 00:50:34.320
to engage the tree line. So we landed the helicopters

00:50:34.320 --> 00:50:36.460
a safe distance away and we made our way up to

00:50:36.460 --> 00:50:38.639
there. We tried to get them to come out and comply.

00:50:39.280 --> 00:50:42.639
Bad guys usually don't listen. So eventually

00:50:42.639 --> 00:50:47.800
the call was made to send the dog in. Cairo ended

00:50:47.800 --> 00:50:51.880
up finding the guys, engaging them, and he got

00:50:51.880 --> 00:50:53.679
them to show their hand before they can engage

00:50:53.679 --> 00:50:57.179
us. Unfortunately, he was shot in the process

00:50:57.179 --> 00:51:04.500
as well. It ended up being the guys had... They

00:51:04.500 --> 00:51:05.980
were trying to get us to come into the trees,

00:51:06.019 --> 00:51:07.500
and there was a guy up high with an automatic

00:51:07.500 --> 00:51:10.599
weapon that was going to open fire on us. So

00:51:10.599 --> 00:51:13.440
if it wasn't for Cairo, there's no telling who

00:51:13.440 --> 00:51:19.199
would have gotten hit if not killed. So that

00:51:19.199 --> 00:51:22.420
night, after I sent them, I started hearing gunfire,

00:51:22.579 --> 00:51:26.739
and I immediately knew that something was going

00:51:26.739 --> 00:51:31.699
on, obviously, that Cairo probably engaged the

00:51:31.699 --> 00:51:36.190
guys. So I started to recall him. After a certain

00:51:36.190 --> 00:51:38.650
amount of time, I knew something was probably

00:51:38.650 --> 00:51:42.389
wrong because Kyra listened pretty well, and

00:51:42.389 --> 00:51:43.949
the fact that he wasn't making it back to me

00:51:43.949 --> 00:51:47.190
was weird. So I knew something was probably wrong.

00:51:48.929 --> 00:51:51.050
It ended up being he got shot through his chest

00:51:51.050 --> 00:51:53.610
and his leg, and they had to put a steel plate

00:51:53.610 --> 00:51:56.409
in his leg later on. But since he was shot through

00:51:56.409 --> 00:51:58.090
his leg, there was a low wall we had to send

00:51:58.090 --> 00:52:00.630
him over to get into the trees, and I don't think

00:52:00.630 --> 00:52:03.539
he could make his way back over that wall. So

00:52:03.539 --> 00:52:07.900
I think he had to find a break in the wall. And

00:52:07.900 --> 00:52:09.800
he eventually made his way all the way back around

00:52:09.800 --> 00:52:13.480
and I could see him off in the distance. And

00:52:13.480 --> 00:52:15.980
as I was making my way towards him, he collapsed.

00:52:16.179 --> 00:52:18.340
And if anybody knows anything about Belgian Malinois,

00:52:18.440 --> 00:52:23.940
they don't collapse. They just don't. So I immediately

00:52:23.940 --> 00:52:29.039
thought he was dead. And I knew the guys had

00:52:29.039 --> 00:52:31.730
the firefight under control. So I didn't have

00:52:31.730 --> 00:52:33.409
to make my way up there. I made my way over to

00:52:33.409 --> 00:52:36.389
Cairo. Another one of my teammates that was on

00:52:36.389 --> 00:52:38.789
the line made his way back towards Cairo because

00:52:38.789 --> 00:52:43.190
he knew that he had been shot and he knew that

00:52:43.190 --> 00:52:45.090
he wasn't needed up there. He was a medic and

00:52:45.090 --> 00:52:48.769
he knew that Cairo probably needed him. So I

00:52:48.769 --> 00:52:51.210
made my way over to him and I saw that he was

00:52:51.210 --> 00:52:53.250
still breathing, which I was really happy about

00:52:53.250 --> 00:52:54.869
that because I really honestly I thought he was

00:52:54.869 --> 00:52:56.710
immediately dead just the way he just tipped

00:52:56.710 --> 00:53:02.460
over and collapsed. So such a terrible circumstance,

00:53:02.719 --> 00:53:05.179
but it was pretty cool to see, you know, all

00:53:05.179 --> 00:53:07.039
that training and effort that we put in before

00:53:07.039 --> 00:53:11.619
we spent quite a bit of time training and going

00:53:11.619 --> 00:53:14.460
over different rehearsals. And under such a terrible

00:53:14.460 --> 00:53:17.219
situation, it was really cool to see just how

00:53:17.219 --> 00:53:20.079
we ended up saving Cairo's life. You know, if

00:53:20.079 --> 00:53:23.599
it wasn't for my teammate coming back and helping,

00:53:23.739 --> 00:53:25.159
you know, I might not have been able to get,

00:53:25.179 --> 00:53:27.000
I had to get Cairo's medical kit out. We carried

00:53:27.000 --> 00:53:30.420
a specific medical kit just for the dogs. I had

00:53:30.420 --> 00:53:32.500
to get his muzzle on and his vest off and all

00:53:32.500 --> 00:53:36.239
of his gear off. Having him there to assist me

00:53:36.239 --> 00:53:38.659
just made it go so quick. Just watching that

00:53:38.659 --> 00:53:40.619
teamwork happen. As I was taking his vest off

00:53:40.619 --> 00:53:42.579
and putting his muzzle on, he had his kit open

00:53:42.579 --> 00:53:47.159
and had his fingers inside of his chest. I would

00:53:47.159 --> 00:53:49.619
definitely say we saved his life. As we're doing

00:53:49.619 --> 00:53:54.659
that, my head shed had the helicopter coming

00:53:54.659 --> 00:53:57.400
in to pick us up. As he's stuffing gauze into

00:53:57.400 --> 00:54:00.530
Cairo's chest. The helicopter is making its way

00:54:00.530 --> 00:54:03.070
towards us. The pilots didn't have to come in.

00:54:04.170 --> 00:54:07.269
It's just a dog. They didn't have to put their

00:54:07.269 --> 00:54:09.630
lives on the line to come in and pick Cairo up.

00:54:09.630 --> 00:54:13.010
We were still in a gunfight at the time, but

00:54:13.010 --> 00:54:19.409
they did. So my teammate stuffed his fingers

00:54:19.409 --> 00:54:22.769
in his chest and got the bleeding to stop, got

00:54:22.769 --> 00:54:25.610
him stable. As soon as he was done doing that,

00:54:25.670 --> 00:54:28.269
the bird landed. I picked Cairo up and ran with

00:54:28.269 --> 00:54:31.190
him onto the helicopter. There was another medic

00:54:31.190 --> 00:54:36.110
on the helicopter that helped work on Cairo until

00:54:36.110 --> 00:54:38.329
we got back to the base. Once we returned to

00:54:38.329 --> 00:54:41.090
the base, there were no veterinarians. So actual

00:54:41.090 --> 00:54:46.489
surgeons had to perform work on Cairo. You know,

00:54:46.530 --> 00:54:47.849
they didn't have to do that, but they treated

00:54:47.849 --> 00:54:51.050
them just like a soldier. They ended up getting

00:54:51.050 --> 00:54:53.130
them stabilized and they did what they had to

00:54:53.130 --> 00:54:57.349
do. And once they got them stable. We got him

00:54:57.349 --> 00:54:59.809
to Bagram Air Force Base where the veterinarians

00:54:59.809 --> 00:55:03.429
were, and he wasn't looking good. He was looking

00:55:03.429 --> 00:55:07.170
pretty rough. So I wasn't sure if he would pull

00:55:07.170 --> 00:55:13.110
through the night, but he did. He made it through

00:55:13.110 --> 00:55:14.949
the night. He just looked a little rough. I laid

00:55:14.949 --> 00:55:17.110
there with him next to him the whole night just

00:55:17.110 --> 00:55:22.389
in case. But it's crazy just how much pain these

00:55:22.389 --> 00:55:26.280
dogs can take. The next day, he was moving pretty

00:55:26.280 --> 00:55:29.099
slow. I've never seen him move that slow, but

00:55:29.099 --> 00:55:31.019
there's some good pictures of it in the book.

00:55:31.699 --> 00:55:34.219
He had a cast on, and he had a fat face from

00:55:34.219 --> 00:55:39.380
all the air. All the air went to his face. He

00:55:39.380 --> 00:55:42.519
had tubes in his lungs. He had a tracheotomy.

00:55:42.840 --> 00:55:45.619
He was looking really rough. He had to get outside

00:55:45.619 --> 00:55:47.539
to use the bathroom, and it was definitely by

00:55:47.539 --> 00:55:49.559
far the slowest I've ever seen him move in his

00:55:49.559 --> 00:55:51.280
life. But he made it all the way. This is the

00:55:51.280 --> 00:55:54.090
next day after getting shot twice. he was outside

00:55:54.090 --> 00:55:56.969
using the bathroom so just the fact that he could

00:55:56.969 --> 00:55:58.349
make it all the way down the hall and outside

00:55:58.349 --> 00:56:00.949
was it was impressive man if i got shot through

00:56:00.949 --> 00:56:03.030
my chest i don't know if i'd be moving around

00:56:03.030 --> 00:56:06.030
the next day and then the day after that he was

00:56:06.030 --> 00:56:08.510
like back to his normal self he had all of his

00:56:08.510 --> 00:56:11.230
tubes out he had sunglasses on he had a cast

00:56:11.230 --> 00:56:14.030
on but he was almost back to his normal self

00:56:14.030 --> 00:56:19.130
so it's just crazy to see the amount of pain

00:56:19.130 --> 00:56:22.900
and just that these dogs can take I mean, Cairo

00:56:22.900 --> 00:56:24.960
cracked his canine in half once, and I would

00:56:24.960 --> 00:56:27.119
have never known unless I found the canine in

00:56:27.119 --> 00:56:30.880
the kennel and saw it. It's just crazy. Well,

00:56:30.920 --> 00:56:32.619
we had one dog get shot through his eye, and

00:56:32.619 --> 00:56:34.260
it came out the back of his head, and that dog

00:56:34.260 --> 00:56:38.320
continued to work for years. Wow. Yeah, it's

00:56:38.320 --> 00:56:40.679
just these dogs do amazing things. You know,

00:56:40.699 --> 00:56:42.159
unfortunately, when they do get shot, though,

00:56:42.179 --> 00:56:44.199
they just don't make it sometimes because it's

00:56:44.199 --> 00:56:46.780
a large bullet going through a pretty small dog.

00:56:47.380 --> 00:56:49.699
But when they do pull through, man, their pain

00:56:49.699 --> 00:56:53.440
tolerance is crazy. All they want to do is work

00:56:53.440 --> 00:56:56.460
and make us happy. As long as they're able to

00:56:56.460 --> 00:57:01.119
do that, they stay happy. They're great animals.

00:57:02.800 --> 00:57:05.360
It's such a powerful story for two reasons. Firstly,

00:57:05.440 --> 00:57:08.260
obviously, Cairo's resilience and the other warrior

00:57:08.260 --> 00:57:10.599
dogs out there and what they do and the sacrifices

00:57:10.599 --> 00:57:14.039
they make. But the other side is the training,

00:57:14.119 --> 00:57:16.460
not only Cairo's own training and the fact that

00:57:16.460 --> 00:57:19.119
he was able to facilitate protecting your...

00:57:21.460 --> 00:57:25.440
but also that sequence of events after the medic

00:57:25.440 --> 00:57:28.039
that helped and then the pilots that came in

00:57:28.039 --> 00:57:30.480
and then the doctors after that. Again, it's

00:57:30.480 --> 00:57:33.360
one of those stories that had people not taken

00:57:33.360 --> 00:57:36.059
their job seriously anywhere along that row of

00:57:36.059 --> 00:57:38.440
dominoes, Cairo probably would have died. And

00:57:38.440 --> 00:57:40.039
it's the same with humans. I think it's something

00:57:40.039 --> 00:57:42.139
that we have to understand in our professions.

00:57:42.440 --> 00:57:45.239
If we don't take our training seriously, you

00:57:45.239 --> 00:57:47.539
could be that weak link that causes someone to

00:57:47.539 --> 00:57:53.039
die. 100%. That, he recovered, that was before

00:57:53.039 --> 00:57:55.920
the Bin Laden mission. So if he would have died,

00:57:56.059 --> 00:57:57.579
there's no telling how that would have affected

00:57:57.579 --> 00:58:01.059
future events. But you're right. Can't stress

00:58:01.059 --> 00:58:03.639
that enough. I mean, I literally saw him in the

00:58:03.639 --> 00:58:06.440
distance. He had been shot with an AK -47 round

00:58:06.440 --> 00:58:08.820
twice, which is a pretty big deal if people don't

00:58:08.820 --> 00:58:12.320
know that. I saw him collapse, literally tip

00:58:12.320 --> 00:58:15.739
over. And it's not our first rodeo. We lose dogs

00:58:15.739 --> 00:58:17.719
all the time. I immediately thought he was dead.

00:58:19.420 --> 00:58:22.280
Time is kind of important to get him medical

00:58:22.280 --> 00:58:23.960
care because it's like, holy shit, he's dead.

00:58:25.119 --> 00:58:28.820
So for my buddy just to even be so well -trained

00:58:28.820 --> 00:58:31.719
to know that he's needed back there, it was just

00:58:31.719 --> 00:58:34.320
the beginning of that. Yeah, so I can't stress

00:58:34.320 --> 00:58:36.940
it enough. Even the helicopter pilots, they're

00:58:36.940 --> 00:58:38.860
like, yeah, who gives a shit? It's just a dog,

00:58:38.940 --> 00:58:42.079
but we're going to lay it out there to pick him

00:58:42.079 --> 00:58:46.230
up because he's part of the team. Yeah, absolutely

00:58:46.230 --> 00:58:48.110
amazing. Absolutely amazing to listen to that

00:58:48.110 --> 00:58:50.230
story. Well, you mentioned the bin Laden raid,

00:58:50.289 --> 00:58:52.730
so that would be a good segue then. So lead me

00:58:52.730 --> 00:58:55.889
through Cairo's recovery and then how you guys

00:58:55.889 --> 00:59:00.449
found yourself reunited for that. Yeah, so we

00:59:00.449 --> 00:59:02.949
sent him, after all those people, even the people,

00:59:03.070 --> 00:59:05.250
they sent him to Lackland Air Force Base. And

00:59:05.250 --> 00:59:07.309
I wasn't ever sure if he would work again. You

00:59:07.309 --> 00:59:09.250
know, getting shot's a pretty big deal. But they

00:59:09.250 --> 00:59:12.530
got him fully recovered and back to working.

00:59:15.119 --> 00:59:17.900
I think the only thing people really know about

00:59:17.900 --> 00:59:20.639
Cairo is the fact that he was on the big mission.

00:59:21.280 --> 00:59:23.980
But there's so much more to him than that. I

00:59:23.980 --> 00:59:26.500
mean, like I said, we just went over the story

00:59:26.500 --> 00:59:29.559
where he was shot. We went on probably hundreds

00:59:29.559 --> 00:59:34.099
of other missions when I had him. He was my primary

00:59:34.099 --> 00:59:35.960
dog. And then once I didn't have him anymore,

00:59:36.039 --> 00:59:39.320
he was a spare dog where he got to do lots of

00:59:39.320 --> 00:59:41.059
other great things. And then even towards the

00:59:41.059 --> 00:59:46.480
end of his life, he did. It sucks losing him,

00:59:46.500 --> 00:59:48.460
but he did some pretty amazing things even towards

00:59:48.460 --> 00:59:51.179
the end of his life. So it's great to be able

00:59:51.179 --> 00:59:55.260
to tell not just a big piece of history, which

00:59:55.260 --> 00:59:57.420
we were a part of. It's great to tell that, but

00:59:57.420 --> 00:59:59.820
it's good to get. There's also some fake stuff

00:59:59.820 --> 01:00:02.179
that was put out there after we completed the

01:00:02.179 --> 01:00:04.860
mission and just some things that weren't completely

01:00:04.860 --> 01:00:07.159
accurate. Like he had titanium teeth and he could

01:00:07.159 --> 01:00:11.599
fly. Laser beams coming out of his ass. Dogzilla.

01:00:12.679 --> 01:00:15.849
Dogzilla. It was a big piece of history, and

01:00:15.849 --> 01:00:17.789
he was a big part of that piece of history. So

01:00:17.789 --> 01:00:21.570
it's an honor to be able to tell his story and

01:00:21.570 --> 01:00:26.230
get the truth out there. But as far as our responsibilities

01:00:26.230 --> 01:00:32.670
that night, he made a full recovery. I was no

01:00:32.670 --> 01:00:35.289
longer going to be a dog handler, so I handed

01:00:35.289 --> 01:00:39.250
him over to the kennel, and I was just going

01:00:39.250 --> 01:00:42.690
back to being an assaulter. And he was going

01:00:42.690 --> 01:00:46.190
to be a spare dog. I was at a school with one

01:00:46.190 --> 01:00:50.170
of my best friends. His name is Nick Check. He's

01:00:50.170 --> 01:00:53.429
no longer with us. He died on a hostage rescue

01:00:53.429 --> 01:00:57.409
mission overseas. But I was at a school with

01:00:57.409 --> 01:01:02.409
him in Arizona. And we were about two to three

01:01:02.409 --> 01:01:04.829
days into the school, and I get a call from my

01:01:04.829 --> 01:01:08.780
boss saying to get on a plane that night. And

01:01:08.780 --> 01:01:11.000
I was coming home and to grab Cairo and to be

01:01:11.000 --> 01:01:15.739
in the team room the next day. So that was pretty

01:01:15.739 --> 01:01:17.820
normal for things to be going on. We were fairly

01:01:17.820 --> 01:01:20.739
busy. And I was 20 -something years old. I didn't

01:01:20.739 --> 01:01:22.039
really care what was going on. I didn't have

01:01:22.039 --> 01:01:26.980
much else going on in life. I was, you know,

01:01:27.019 --> 01:01:29.199
being a SEAL is a pretty all -encompassing job.

01:01:29.760 --> 01:01:34.260
So I was pretty busy doing that. So I was like,

01:01:34.300 --> 01:01:37.219
yeah, sure. I'll check out of the school and

01:01:37.219 --> 01:01:39.510
head. I'll see you in the morning. And I go back

01:01:39.510 --> 01:01:41.250
to the classroom and I talked to my, like I said,

01:01:41.269 --> 01:01:42.989
my best friend, Nick. I'm like, Hey man, we're

01:01:42.989 --> 01:01:47.309
going home. We're getting called back. And he's

01:01:47.309 --> 01:01:49.550
like, no, not me. It's just you. And I just thought

01:01:49.550 --> 01:01:51.329
that was really weird because Nick, he was a,

01:01:51.329 --> 01:01:53.369
he was a really good guy. He was a better operator

01:01:53.369 --> 01:01:56.150
than I was. He was, he was a real solid guy.

01:01:56.289 --> 01:01:58.110
So I was like, why would they be calling me back

01:01:58.110 --> 01:02:03.289
and not you? And, um, yeah, I didn't really care

01:02:03.289 --> 01:02:04.809
either way. So I was like, well, have fun at

01:02:04.809 --> 01:02:07.719
this school by yourself. That sucks for you,

01:02:07.780 --> 01:02:12.699
bro. So I made fun of him a little bit, you know,

01:02:12.699 --> 01:02:14.860
probably slapped him in his mouth. I'm just kidding.

01:02:14.900 --> 01:02:17.940
He would have beat me up. But I told him to have

01:02:17.940 --> 01:02:19.619
fun at the school by himself. And I hope I get

01:02:19.619 --> 01:02:21.840
to go do something cool. And just made fun of

01:02:21.840 --> 01:02:25.079
him. And he ended up telling everybody. So I

01:02:25.079 --> 01:02:26.920
checked out of the school. It was kind of a pain

01:02:26.920 --> 01:02:29.639
in the ass. I think I ended up just leaving because

01:02:29.639 --> 01:02:31.480
I couldn't figure out the proper channels and

01:02:31.480 --> 01:02:34.239
paperwork. And I had a flight to catch. And since

01:02:34.239 --> 01:02:36.820
I ended up just leaving. When the people asked

01:02:36.820 --> 01:02:40.139
where I went the next day in the class, he ended

01:02:40.139 --> 01:02:42.440
up telling everybody I quit. So that was pretty

01:02:42.440 --> 01:02:46.539
nice of him. He said it was too hard. He said

01:02:46.539 --> 01:02:48.400
it was too hard. You know, SEALs are not known

01:02:48.400 --> 01:02:50.420
for quitting. So I guess when somebody in the

01:02:50.420 --> 01:02:51.920
classroom asked what happened to me, he told

01:02:51.920 --> 01:02:54.940
everybody that I quit. Yeah, I guess he had the

01:02:54.940 --> 01:03:00.519
last laugh. So I ended up going back home and

01:03:00.519 --> 01:03:03.179
grabbing Cairo and showing up in the team room.

01:03:04.079 --> 01:03:07.679
And we did some training. Eventually we were

01:03:07.679 --> 01:03:10.380
told what was happening, who we were going after.

01:03:10.719 --> 01:03:12.760
We kept it kind of vague in the beginning and

01:03:12.760 --> 01:03:18.860
then finally we were told. Made it our way overseas.

01:03:19.940 --> 01:03:23.340
And that night, mine and Kyra's responsibilities,

01:03:23.500 --> 01:03:28.719
like I said earlier, was to detect any man or

01:03:28.719 --> 01:03:31.199
explosive odor. So when we landed, we did sweeps

01:03:31.199 --> 01:03:33.340
of the perimeter. I was looking for any explosives,

01:03:33.739 --> 01:03:38.460
any tunnels, any booby traps. Once we felt the

01:03:38.460 --> 01:03:41.119
perimeter was secure, we made our way to the

01:03:41.119 --> 01:03:43.519
inside and we started doing sweeps on the first,

01:03:43.599 --> 01:03:46.340
second floor, looking for the same thing. Anywhere

01:03:46.340 --> 01:03:49.840
somebody might be hiding, any explosives. Figured

01:03:49.840 --> 01:03:52.219
there might be some sort of escape room or hidden

01:03:52.219 --> 01:03:57.960
room. Eventually, the call was made to Exfil.

01:04:01.519 --> 01:04:03.960
We made our way to Exville where some pretty

01:04:03.960 --> 01:04:05.519
amazing things happened. I mean, this obviously

01:04:05.519 --> 01:04:08.039
goes into way more detail in the book. This is

01:04:08.039 --> 01:04:11.960
just a brief overview. But we conducted sweeps

01:04:11.960 --> 01:04:13.760
the first, second floor, made our way to Exville.

01:04:13.960 --> 01:04:16.019
And, you know, the mission wasn't over. We knew

01:04:16.019 --> 01:04:17.679
that we had gotten him, but we still had to make

01:04:17.679 --> 01:04:20.539
it home. So it's not like we stopped to celebrate.

01:04:22.519 --> 01:04:25.559
There was some very heroic stuff that happened

01:04:25.559 --> 01:04:29.309
that whole entire night. We ended up having one

01:04:29.309 --> 01:04:32.969
of the helicopters crashed. A couple guys ended

01:04:32.969 --> 01:04:35.570
up getting a firefight, but we ended up accomplishing

01:04:35.570 --> 01:04:39.230
the mission and didn't really sink in until we

01:04:39.230 --> 01:04:42.650
landed back on base. I remember walking in through

01:04:42.650 --> 01:04:45.710
the hangar, and that's when it really kind of

01:04:45.710 --> 01:04:47.329
sunk in that everybody was going to make it because

01:04:47.329 --> 01:04:49.909
we didn't expect to make it back. We figured

01:04:49.909 --> 01:04:52.210
something might go wrong. Our job was pretty

01:04:52.210 --> 01:04:55.519
dangerous, as it was in the beginning. Being

01:04:55.519 --> 01:04:57.000
a SEAL is just a dangerous period. You're going

01:04:57.000 --> 01:04:59.539
after bad guys that want to kill you. So it's

01:04:59.539 --> 01:05:00.960
always dangerous. Just whoever we're going after

01:05:00.960 --> 01:05:03.260
was maybe a little bit more dangerous. We expected,

01:05:03.420 --> 01:05:08.000
you know, something to happen. So when we landed

01:05:08.000 --> 01:05:09.980
and I looked around the helicopter or the hangar

01:05:09.980 --> 01:05:14.199
and just knowing that we landed back safe and

01:05:14.199 --> 01:05:16.440
everybody was still alive, I think a couple of

01:05:16.440 --> 01:05:18.420
guys got some shrapnel. We got fragged a little

01:05:18.420 --> 01:05:22.800
bit, but nobody cares. Everybody was good. Everybody

01:05:22.800 --> 01:05:25.260
was alive. We accomplished the mission. And it

01:05:25.260 --> 01:05:27.059
was just, it was, man, it was, that was the moment

01:05:27.059 --> 01:05:29.460
that it just kind of sunk in and I got to do

01:05:29.460 --> 01:05:31.039
the whole thing with Cairo. So I got to bring

01:05:31.039 --> 01:05:32.579
my dog. That was, that was really cool. But,

01:05:32.619 --> 01:05:35.280
and it was still, wasn't over then. We still

01:05:35.280 --> 01:05:37.860
had a lot of work to do, but that was just kind

01:05:37.860 --> 01:05:39.579
of the moment I knew everybody was going to be

01:05:39.579 --> 01:05:43.659
okay. And it was done. It's amazing. Absolutely.

01:05:43.679 --> 01:05:45.019
Now, now Justin, again, you don't have to be

01:05:45.019 --> 01:05:49.489
specific at all with him killed. Did you see

01:05:49.489 --> 01:05:54.969
any change in the arena the weeks and months

01:05:54.969 --> 01:06:00.150
following that as far as enemy resistance? I

01:06:00.150 --> 01:06:02.289
was no longer on deployment. We ended up returning

01:06:02.289 --> 01:06:06.510
home. And as far as things changing, definitely

01:06:06.510 --> 01:06:09.210
things changed as far as the personal side. I

01:06:09.210 --> 01:06:12.010
would say as far as the whole command goes as

01:06:12.010 --> 01:06:13.969
well. We had a helicopter crash not too long

01:06:13.969 --> 01:06:18.199
after that where we lost a lot of people. So

01:06:18.199 --> 01:06:20.300
I think things definitely changed after that.

01:06:20.340 --> 01:06:22.679
I also started dealing with my own personal issues

01:06:22.679 --> 01:06:27.000
after that as well. Yeah, well, let's walk through

01:06:27.000 --> 01:06:29.239
that then. So I know it seems like one of the

01:06:29.239 --> 01:06:33.300
key events was your TBI, the wounds that you

01:06:33.300 --> 01:06:35.800
sustained with the grenade. So if you want to

01:06:35.800 --> 01:06:37.699
talk us through that and then, like you said

01:06:37.699 --> 01:06:40.480
before, your journey kind of spiraling downward

01:06:40.480 --> 01:06:42.659
after that so we can get to the recovery element.

01:06:45.090 --> 01:06:48.590
Yeah, definitely just finished that up, and like

01:06:48.590 --> 01:06:52.469
I said, we had extortion, the helicopter crash.

01:06:53.030 --> 01:06:57.070
That was pretty traumatic. After that, my grenade

01:06:57.070 --> 01:06:59.269
injury happened. I had some drinking issues.

01:07:01.269 --> 01:07:05.730
After the grenade injury, it just wasn't the

01:07:05.730 --> 01:07:07.769
same. That was my exit into the military. It

01:07:07.769 --> 01:07:10.570
happened in 2012. We tried for about three years

01:07:10.570 --> 01:07:15.320
to see if we could help. But my head shed and

01:07:15.320 --> 01:07:19.539
my team leaders tried to fix me, basically. They

01:07:19.539 --> 01:07:21.500
sent me through everything that they possibly

01:07:21.500 --> 01:07:24.599
can. Literally everything. It took about three

01:07:24.599 --> 01:07:27.179
years, couldn't fix me. And by 2015, I was out

01:07:27.179 --> 01:07:34.559
of the Navy. Then it was just pretty much, it

01:07:34.559 --> 01:07:37.800
got really bad after that. I lost. It was the

01:07:37.800 --> 01:07:39.639
only thing that I had known was being a SEAL.

01:07:39.760 --> 01:07:42.039
So I lost all of my family. I had my family back

01:07:42.039 --> 01:07:44.780
home, but... A lot of people had already passed

01:07:44.780 --> 01:07:46.619
by then, so it was good to see my mom and dad.

01:07:47.500 --> 01:07:51.760
But as far as job family goes, I didn't really

01:07:51.760 --> 01:07:53.519
keep in contact with a whole lot of people. It

01:07:53.519 --> 01:07:57.360
was not a good place to be in. And then I started

01:07:57.360 --> 01:08:00.860
drinking a lot more, and I gained a lot of weight.

01:08:00.980 --> 01:08:02.880
It was a bad place. My brain wasn't functioning

01:08:02.880 --> 01:08:06.139
well. It was at my worst, I would say, when I

01:08:06.139 --> 01:08:08.199
exited the year. Maybe a year or two after I

01:08:08.199 --> 01:08:09.900
exited the military was when I was at my worst.

01:08:13.710 --> 01:08:17.529
I got through it. Luckily, I didn't die. I almost

01:08:17.529 --> 01:08:20.369
died a few times just drinking -related incidences

01:08:20.369 --> 01:08:24.590
and dumb stuff. Luckily, I'm still here. I thank

01:08:24.590 --> 01:08:28.170
God for that. And like I said earlier, my buddy

01:08:28.170 --> 01:08:32.869
Jared Shaw kind of reached out and drug me to

01:08:32.869 --> 01:08:35.729
a brain treatment place through the Brain Treatment

01:08:35.729 --> 01:08:38.489
Foundation. And they got me on the path to start

01:08:38.489 --> 01:08:44.600
getting better. Eventually quit drinking after

01:08:44.600 --> 01:08:49.100
that brain treatment. I've just tried to make

01:08:49.100 --> 01:08:51.039
some different lifestyle changes, whether it's

01:08:51.039 --> 01:08:54.100
trying my fasting, I try to meditate, I try different

01:08:54.100 --> 01:08:57.039
methods of breathing, try to clean up my diet.

01:08:57.180 --> 01:09:00.300
There's all kinds of different modalities. Dogs

01:09:00.300 --> 01:09:03.220
are a huge part of that. I have a couple of service

01:09:03.220 --> 01:09:07.340
dogs. Cairo helped me get through some pretty

01:09:07.340 --> 01:09:09.420
tough times. The transition out of the military

01:09:09.420 --> 01:09:12.329
was really tough. His end of life was pretty

01:09:12.329 --> 01:09:15.270
tough as well, but having him around was definitely

01:09:15.270 --> 01:09:18.470
a modality that was great for me to use. I think

01:09:18.470 --> 01:09:23.770
if you're a dog person, having a dog around can

01:09:23.770 --> 01:09:25.590
definitely help you out. I've got a good buddy

01:09:25.590 --> 01:09:28.090
of mine, Mark Simos, who just got himself a dog,

01:09:28.130 --> 01:09:31.710
and he seems to be much happier. He goes, thanks

01:09:31.710 --> 01:09:34.069
to you. He kind of made me realize having a dog

01:09:34.069 --> 01:09:37.649
around can be a good tool if you get the right

01:09:37.649 --> 01:09:40.180
dog and send it to the right training. He ended

01:09:40.180 --> 01:09:43.399
up getting a dog and he seems pretty happy. Well,

01:09:44.039 --> 01:09:46.100
that was something that struck me when in the

01:09:46.100 --> 01:09:48.340
book you talk about you used to be able to take

01:09:48.340 --> 01:09:50.979
Cairo home. Then there was a policy change and

01:09:50.979 --> 01:09:52.520
then you weren't able to and he had to stay at

01:09:52.520 --> 01:09:54.579
the kennel. And it seemed like there was a lot

01:09:54.579 --> 01:09:58.159
of time those later years where you just physically

01:09:58.159 --> 01:10:01.640
weren't with each other. From my perspective,

01:10:01.760 --> 01:10:03.779
what I see now is the same thing in a lot of

01:10:03.779 --> 01:10:05.880
my professions, whether they're officially a

01:10:05.880 --> 01:10:07.840
therapy dog or whether it's someone who just

01:10:07.840 --> 01:10:11.399
has a dog. The healing element of canines, actually,

01:10:11.479 --> 01:10:13.779
and horses as well, equine therapy seems to be

01:10:13.779 --> 01:10:16.659
very powerful. But definitely having dogs is

01:10:16.659 --> 01:10:19.640
so healing. And the irony is we used to actually

01:10:19.640 --> 01:10:22.439
have dogs in fire stations 100 years ago, you

01:10:22.439 --> 01:10:24.220
know, and, you know, they kept the rats away

01:10:24.220 --> 01:10:26.060
and all that stuff. And then we actually took

01:10:26.060 --> 01:10:27.800
him away. And now I think we're starting to see

01:10:27.800 --> 01:10:30.420
dogs going back in for a different reason. So

01:10:30.420 --> 01:10:33.319
tell me about that. When you were finally able

01:10:33.319 --> 01:10:35.760
to have Kyra with you all the time, what did

01:10:35.760 --> 01:10:40.720
you observe within yourself? Like I said, it

01:10:40.720 --> 01:10:43.760
was just good to have him home. We had been through

01:10:43.760 --> 01:10:46.260
quite a bit together. And like you said, you

01:10:46.260 --> 01:10:48.460
know the value of dogs. And it doesn't have to

01:10:48.460 --> 01:10:50.619
be a dog. Whatever floats your boat, man. Go

01:10:50.619 --> 01:10:53.909
get you a service pig. or you know whatever makes

01:10:53.909 --> 01:10:56.489
you happy go get you a parrot but uh for a lot

01:10:56.489 --> 01:11:00.029
of people it's dogs and um you know Cairo wasn't

01:11:00.029 --> 01:11:03.409
a service dog he was a working dog he um he was

01:11:03.409 --> 01:11:06.789
an attack dog but towards the end of his life

01:11:06.789 --> 01:11:11.550
you know he did it was just good to be able to

01:11:11.550 --> 01:11:13.149
take care of him I mean think about the dog that

01:11:13.149 --> 01:11:15.409
you have at home or pet that you love that you

01:11:15.409 --> 01:11:18.109
have at home and uh think about how much you

01:11:18.109 --> 01:11:20.510
love that animal and all the stuff that you've

01:11:20.510 --> 01:11:24.460
been through And now me and Cairo got to – we

01:11:24.460 --> 01:11:26.579
had that bond along with him getting shot for

01:11:26.579 --> 01:11:28.720
me, literally almost dying for me, going on hundreds

01:11:28.720 --> 01:11:31.500
of operations together, getting to participate

01:11:31.500 --> 01:11:35.279
in one of the world's most famous missions, whatever

01:11:35.279 --> 01:11:38.560
you want to call it. So that bond was pretty

01:11:38.560 --> 01:11:41.420
– it was a pretty strong bond. I loved him quite

01:11:41.420 --> 01:11:46.260
a bit, if that makes sense. And then he did quite

01:11:46.260 --> 01:11:48.880
a bit for me. And to be able to take care of

01:11:48.880 --> 01:11:50.859
him and know that he had a good end of life was

01:11:50.859 --> 01:11:53.109
– It was very important to me, and I got to do

01:11:53.109 --> 01:11:55.510
that for him. So I guess that's where the value

01:11:55.510 --> 01:11:58.109
comes across as. I wouldn't call him a service

01:11:58.109 --> 01:12:00.449
dog, but I was going through my own personal

01:12:00.449 --> 01:12:03.670
issues as well, and he had a pretty shit go towards

01:12:03.670 --> 01:12:05.609
the end of his life. So for me to be able to

01:12:05.609 --> 01:12:08.149
make sure he was as comfortable as possible was

01:12:08.149 --> 01:12:11.670
very important to me. Yeah, well, flipping it

01:12:11.670 --> 01:12:14.069
around, just like you said, Cairo obviously was

01:12:14.069 --> 01:12:16.109
in the same battlefield as you, and you mentioned

01:12:16.109 --> 01:12:19.619
seeing almost like PTSD. So what were some of

01:12:19.619 --> 01:12:23.000
the things that you almost recognized in his

01:12:23.000 --> 01:12:27.460
behavior? He got weird around thunderstorms.

01:12:27.960 --> 01:12:30.979
So that was different to see. He'd been around

01:12:30.979 --> 01:12:33.939
quite a bit of gunfire explosions, helicopter

01:12:33.939 --> 01:12:37.859
rides. But then all of a sudden, once I got him

01:12:37.859 --> 01:12:40.600
retired, thunderstorms would get to him. He would

01:12:40.600 --> 01:12:43.100
just try to hide under stuff and cower. And I

01:12:43.100 --> 01:12:44.859
think he actually pissed the bed once. So that

01:12:44.859 --> 01:12:47.300
was really weird to see. So he definitely had

01:12:47.300 --> 01:12:49.159
some sort of effects, I guess, from getting shot.

01:12:50.979 --> 01:12:54.279
Yeah. Now, in the book, I think it's at the very

01:12:54.279 --> 01:12:56.979
beginning, you start with a quote. You say that

01:12:56.979 --> 01:13:00.020
buying a dog is like a small tragedy. You know

01:13:00.020 --> 01:13:02.100
on the very first day how it will all turn out.

01:13:02.220 --> 01:13:04.979
And that resonated so deeply. I've had dogs ever

01:13:04.979 --> 01:13:07.560
since I was a little boy, usually German Shepherds

01:13:07.560 --> 01:13:16.750
as well. And you're absolutely right. nikita

01:13:16.750 --> 01:13:19.529
my one because of that same thing she had a heart

01:13:19.529 --> 01:13:21.970
broken by her last dog and it took literally

01:13:21.970 --> 01:13:25.050
about four years for her to finally open up because

01:13:25.050 --> 01:13:26.810
like you said it's the journey that you have

01:13:26.810 --> 01:13:28.569
to enjoy you know that's going to happen you

01:13:28.569 --> 01:13:31.170
know we might die first who knows but you never

01:13:31.170 --> 01:13:33.649
know to not have a dog just because of fearing

01:13:33.649 --> 01:13:36.210
the grief at the end you know it's the wrong

01:13:36.210 --> 01:13:39.050
way of thinking about it i agree with that and

01:13:39.050 --> 01:13:41.310
then i also think i have too many dogs sometimes

01:13:41.310 --> 01:13:47.279
but no here we just lost It was about a year

01:13:47.279 --> 01:13:49.859
ago now, not too long ago. She died at six. All

01:13:49.859 --> 01:13:52.600
of a sudden, she was great. She was a Hagen.

01:13:52.640 --> 01:13:56.619
She's in the book as well. She was a little 50

01:13:56.619 --> 01:13:59.319
-pound female Malinois. We think something was

01:13:59.319 --> 01:14:01.000
wrong with her because she was so tiny, but she

01:14:01.000 --> 01:14:03.220
was a really great dog. She was one of those

01:14:03.220 --> 01:14:05.960
special dogs just like Kyra was. And then all

01:14:05.960 --> 01:14:08.399
of a sudden at six, she died one night instantly.

01:14:08.600 --> 01:14:10.779
Just took her to the vet and brought her in the

01:14:10.779 --> 01:14:13.380
back, and she was gone after that. So never saw

01:14:13.380 --> 01:14:16.439
her again. But, you know, that hurt. real bad

01:14:16.439 --> 01:14:19.220
but i also have you know i still have a couple

01:14:19.220 --> 01:14:20.939
of more dogs and we just kept another one so

01:14:20.939 --> 01:14:23.340
you can look at it either way i mean the dogs

01:14:23.340 --> 01:14:26.899
are a pain and if you do get a dog just know

01:14:26.899 --> 01:14:28.579
that you know you have to take care of it it's

01:14:28.579 --> 01:14:30.420
going to be a lot of work to get in a puppy but

01:14:30.420 --> 01:14:33.659
once you do have the dog there you put the right

01:14:33.659 --> 01:14:37.819
training and effort into them they're they're

01:14:37.819 --> 01:14:39.579
a great tool they're great they make you happy

01:14:39.579 --> 01:14:41.479
they can make you happy but um you know it's

01:14:41.479 --> 01:14:43.680
a lot of work sometimes as well but i get what

01:14:43.680 --> 01:14:46.659
she's I get what she means it sucks losing them

01:14:46.659 --> 01:14:49.319
every time uh every time you buy one you know

01:14:49.319 --> 01:14:52.399
they're not gonna you know they're gonna go but

01:14:52.399 --> 01:14:54.680
then again like you said you never know the dog

01:14:54.680 --> 01:14:56.479
might outlive you too so you just got to live

01:14:56.479 --> 01:14:58.760
life to the fullest and if the dog makes you

01:14:58.760 --> 01:15:02.760
happy go get yourself a dog exactly well my dad

01:15:02.760 --> 01:15:04.979
actually was is a veterinarian retired now so

01:15:04.979 --> 01:15:07.500
I grew up around you know Like you were saying,

01:15:07.579 --> 01:15:10.420
the surgery side, seeing these dogs not shot

01:15:10.420 --> 01:15:12.239
usually, obviously hit by cars or something.

01:15:12.380 --> 01:15:14.119
So I remember doing emergency surgeries with

01:15:14.119 --> 01:15:17.979
him, watching, assisting, but then helping euthanize

01:15:17.979 --> 01:15:20.720
as well. And it was heartbreaking. But there's

01:15:20.720 --> 01:15:23.699
that humanitarian element. And it's funny because

01:15:23.699 --> 01:15:25.500
I've had conversations with people on this podcast

01:15:25.500 --> 01:15:29.439
about that concept for humans. There's a certain

01:15:29.439 --> 01:15:31.680
point where they're suffering so much that it's

01:15:31.680 --> 01:15:33.420
the right thing to do to let them transition.

01:15:34.340 --> 01:15:38.699
Of course. Yeah, I mean, yeah, of course. I agree.

01:15:39.560 --> 01:15:42.760
For us, it was she was gone anyways. So her ammonia

01:15:42.760 --> 01:15:44.539
had attacked her brain. So it's just it was a

01:15:44.539 --> 01:15:46.140
pretty easy call. But sometimes if they're not

01:15:46.140 --> 01:15:47.819
going to have a good quality of life, then yeah,

01:15:47.939 --> 01:15:50.680
it's just something you have to do. And it's

01:15:50.680 --> 01:15:53.899
just it sucks every time, especially if it's

01:15:53.899 --> 01:15:55.439
a really good dog that you put a lot of work

01:15:55.439 --> 01:15:59.420
into. But it is it's part of I mean, I just thank

01:15:59.420 --> 01:16:02.720
God that I got such a great dog. because you

01:16:02.720 --> 01:16:05.840
could end up getting a shit dog. No matter how

01:16:05.840 --> 01:16:08.520
much work you put into it, you just have a suck

01:16:08.520 --> 01:16:11.600
dog. And so I just, you know, I only got six

01:16:11.600 --> 01:16:13.760
years with her in Cairo. I only got 10 years

01:16:13.760 --> 01:16:16.840
with him, but that's not a bad push, man. You

01:16:16.840 --> 01:16:19.020
know, it sucks. I wish they would have lasted

01:16:19.020 --> 01:16:23.119
till 15, but I'm just, I'm very thankful for

01:16:23.119 --> 01:16:25.239
the time that we did have together. Absolutely.

01:16:25.460 --> 01:16:29.600
Well, speaking of, you know, their health. Just

01:16:29.600 --> 01:16:31.239
with the background that you have, obviously

01:16:31.239 --> 01:16:34.500
the level that you're at working with dogs, what

01:16:34.500 --> 01:16:36.520
are some of the common mistakes that you see

01:16:36.520 --> 01:16:40.680
some civilians making when it comes to training

01:16:40.680 --> 01:16:43.100
and then also exercise and feeding their dogs?

01:16:45.000 --> 01:16:47.100
It just depends on the dog that you have. I would

01:16:47.100 --> 01:16:49.340
just say just educate yourself. Know what kind

01:16:49.340 --> 01:16:53.560
of dog you have. I have two Malinois, so the

01:16:53.560 --> 01:16:59.210
tools in my toolbox might be a lot more. Not

01:16:59.210 --> 01:17:02.770
only use reward or treat based training or clicker

01:17:02.770 --> 01:17:05.149
training. I keep it as happy as possible, as

01:17:05.149 --> 01:17:09.890
much as possible. But I have Malinois who also

01:17:09.890 --> 01:17:12.170
you need a stern hand sometimes. So sometimes

01:17:12.170 --> 01:17:15.170
I need to use a choke chain. Most of the time

01:17:15.170 --> 01:17:17.489
I don't need a prong. But if that's the tool

01:17:17.489 --> 01:17:19.069
that you need, if you have a high energy dog,

01:17:19.310 --> 01:17:21.550
sometimes you might need to bump it up a level.

01:17:21.850 --> 01:17:24.289
It's on the owner to know what kind of dog you

01:17:24.289 --> 01:17:26.050
have and what kind of tools are going to best.

01:17:26.880 --> 01:17:29.520
communicate the message clearly to the dog because

01:17:29.520 --> 01:17:32.039
the dog doesn't speak your language you have

01:17:32.039 --> 01:17:35.039
to figure out a way to communicate with the dog

01:17:35.039 --> 01:17:38.000
and so you want to pick the best tools that's

01:17:38.000 --> 01:17:40.680
going to get the communication clearly across

01:17:40.680 --> 01:17:44.899
so if you have a pug you might not need to get

01:17:44.899 --> 01:17:47.840
a prong collar and choke that shit choke that

01:17:47.840 --> 01:17:51.720
thing you know you just need to get a little

01:17:51.720 --> 01:17:53.600
clicker and some treats and your little pug will

01:17:53.600 --> 01:17:58.159
be fine but if you have a full -blown boy Malinois

01:17:58.159 --> 01:18:02.159
who's a monster, you might want to go get a choke

01:18:02.159 --> 01:18:05.359
chain or a prong collar or a knee collar. Or

01:18:05.359 --> 01:18:08.479
if you have a low -tempered female Malinois,

01:18:08.680 --> 01:18:11.420
you might just be able to get by with reward

01:18:11.420 --> 01:18:15.359
-based treat training. It's all on you to educate

01:18:15.359 --> 01:18:18.199
yourself and know what kind of dog you have and

01:18:18.199 --> 01:18:20.300
always just be careful. Just do the research

01:18:20.300 --> 01:18:22.699
on the dog. If you have a high -temperament,

01:18:22.720 --> 01:18:25.149
highly aggressive dog, know what you have. if

01:18:25.149 --> 01:18:26.989
you have a shih tzu or a pug know what you have

01:18:26.989 --> 01:18:29.829
and then just train yourself on how to clearly

01:18:29.829 --> 01:18:32.590
communicate with your animal make him happy try

01:18:32.590 --> 01:18:36.449
to keep it as happy as possible and that's about

01:18:36.449 --> 01:18:38.369
all you can do love that well i'm glad that you

01:18:38.369 --> 01:18:40.029
said that about the prong collar because that's

01:18:40.029 --> 01:18:42.909
what i use with mine purely because any other

01:18:42.909 --> 01:18:45.550
collar she would just choke herself on so she

01:18:45.550 --> 01:18:49.449
was far less no so whereas this she'll walk alongside

01:18:49.449 --> 01:18:51.770
me but if she gets that prey drive of a squirrel

01:18:52.600 --> 01:18:54.359
something she's got she's got a thing about bikes

01:18:54.359 --> 01:18:56.659
too if you're on a motorbike or yeah a cyclist

01:18:56.659 --> 01:18:58.859
goes by she'll you know she doesn't lunge at

01:18:58.859 --> 01:19:00.880
them but you know but it's just that little impulse

01:19:00.880 --> 01:19:03.340
to stop her when she does pull but that's once

01:19:03.340 --> 01:19:06.020
in a blue moon but you know for her she's got

01:19:06.020 --> 01:19:08.619
this thick thick german shepherd hair that seems

01:19:08.619 --> 01:19:10.520
to be the only thing that gives her the stimulus

01:19:10.520 --> 01:19:14.500
between you know go and no i guess right no it's

01:19:14.500 --> 01:19:16.739
huge and that's on that's on you you know how

01:19:16.739 --> 01:19:19.039
to read your dog you know every dog is different

01:19:19.039 --> 01:19:21.600
just like every person you know her little quirks

01:19:22.060 --> 01:19:24.880
And you know what tool to properly get that message

01:19:24.880 --> 01:19:26.819
across. And like you said, having that longer

01:19:26.819 --> 01:19:28.340
hair, that's exactly what I was thinking a while

01:19:28.340 --> 01:19:30.539
ago. I just didn't say that. Sometimes you just

01:19:30.539 --> 01:19:32.420
have longer hair, so you need that prong collar

01:19:32.420 --> 01:19:34.399
to get in there. Because if not, you're just

01:19:34.399 --> 01:19:37.060
going to choke the dog. And then you might, to

01:19:37.060 --> 01:19:38.619
me, that's just stupid because it's not proper

01:19:38.619 --> 01:19:40.319
training. You're just choking your dog. And it's

01:19:40.319 --> 01:19:43.199
actually, you can damage the dog's throat that

01:19:43.199 --> 01:19:45.680
way. But people see the prong collar and it looks

01:19:45.680 --> 01:19:48.739
terrible. And they think, oh, that's cruel. But

01:19:48.739 --> 01:19:51.119
it's not because you're just. You're causing

01:19:51.119 --> 01:19:53.100
the dog not to choke itself, which is actually

01:19:53.100 --> 01:19:56.140
using the proper tool the proper way, and you're

01:19:56.140 --> 01:19:58.199
being smart. Same thing with a shock collar.

01:19:58.840 --> 01:20:01.720
People – I mean I've done it. I'll be honest

01:20:01.720 --> 01:20:03.760
with it. I've accidentally shocked my dogs more

01:20:03.760 --> 01:20:05.239
than I should have. And you know what I did?

01:20:05.260 --> 01:20:07.479
I put that shock collar on my neck, and I blast

01:20:07.479 --> 01:20:11.239
myself because I feel terrible. You can go get

01:20:11.239 --> 01:20:15.420
an e -collar, and just – it's on you to use the

01:20:15.420 --> 01:20:19.819
tool properly. All that's doing is – getting

01:20:19.819 --> 01:20:22.520
the dog's attention if you do a little bit of

01:20:22.520 --> 01:20:25.319
research on it you're finding the dog's tractation

01:20:25.319 --> 01:20:28.460
level which is it's like basically tapping the

01:20:28.460 --> 01:20:30.720
dog on the neck just to say hey listen to me

01:20:30.720 --> 01:20:33.359
so just because you have an e -collar on a dog

01:20:33.359 --> 01:20:35.600
you don't have to like full blast that thing

01:20:35.600 --> 01:20:39.060
i mean just find out what your dog responds to

01:20:39.060 --> 01:20:40.739
you can even just use the beep on the collar

01:20:40.739 --> 01:20:43.819
some dogs might even just respond to that they

01:20:43.819 --> 01:20:46.779
have vibrations and beeps so Yeah, I would just

01:20:46.779 --> 01:20:48.859
say it's just all about educating yourself and

01:20:48.859 --> 01:20:50.340
knowing what's out there. And just because you

01:20:50.340 --> 01:20:52.539
think one thing is really bad, just do a little

01:20:52.539 --> 01:20:54.579
bit of research into it and look at some reputable

01:20:54.579 --> 01:20:58.659
people. There's plenty of Navy SEALs out there,

01:20:58.680 --> 01:21:02.520
dog trainers, Mike Ritland, John Devine, my buddy

01:21:02.520 --> 01:21:05.199
Mike Toussaint. They all have really good training

01:21:05.199 --> 01:21:06.720
companies. Just do a little bit of research.

01:21:06.859 --> 01:21:10.180
Just train yourself. Yeah, exactly. I had Mike

01:21:10.180 --> 01:21:14.539
on the show, so he was another great guest. So

01:21:14.539 --> 01:21:16.899
then another thing that I see in the civilian

01:21:16.899 --> 01:21:19.199
world is, you know, again, I've got a shepherd.

01:21:19.300 --> 01:21:22.079
I walk her a lot. I used to run her a lot, but

01:21:22.079 --> 01:21:24.199
she almost seemed like she would pull a muscle

01:21:24.199 --> 01:21:26.300
as she got a little bit older. She ran too much,

01:21:26.319 --> 01:21:28.760
which is a little bit strange, but I'm not sure

01:21:28.760 --> 01:21:31.060
if that's muscular or if it's even spinal. Hopefully

01:21:31.060 --> 01:21:34.119
not. But regardless, I understand that she is

01:21:34.119 --> 01:21:36.460
a working dog and therefore needs a lot of exercise.

01:21:36.560 --> 01:21:39.060
So each walk we do is at least two miles and

01:21:39.060 --> 01:21:42.359
throw balls and stuff in the backyard. um but

01:21:42.359 --> 01:21:44.399
it seems to me and obviously it reflects even

01:21:44.399 --> 01:21:46.319
in our population's health a little bit that

01:21:46.319 --> 01:21:48.479
a lot of these dogs people oh i've got a terrible

01:21:48.479 --> 01:21:50.399
dog it doesn't behave and then you find out that

01:21:50.399 --> 01:21:53.180
it's in a crate all day never gets walked so

01:21:53.180 --> 01:21:56.399
what's your kind of education to us as far as

01:21:56.399 --> 01:21:58.859
the level of exercise that a canine in general

01:21:58.859 --> 01:22:02.300
should be having yeah it just depends on the

01:22:02.300 --> 01:22:04.279
dog if it's a if it's a male you said run that

01:22:04.279 --> 01:22:06.520
thing at least once a day probably twice a day

01:22:06.520 --> 01:22:11.369
just it's on if your dog yeah that's um That's

01:22:11.369 --> 01:22:13.130
the answer to your problem. If you say your dog's

01:22:13.130 --> 01:22:16.810
an asshole, but you're leaving in the cage all

01:22:16.810 --> 01:22:20.189
day, well, who's the asshole? I'm going to make

01:22:20.189 --> 01:22:23.770
a t -shirt with that one. I mean, I don't, yeah.

01:22:24.289 --> 01:22:25.630
You just know what kind of dog you're getting.

01:22:25.649 --> 01:22:28.550
I guess people don't realize that sometimes people

01:22:28.550 --> 01:22:30.409
just see a cool dog, and I guess I've been responsible

01:22:30.409 --> 01:22:32.430
for it when I was a kid. You see a pit bull or

01:22:32.430 --> 01:22:34.850
a wallflower, just do your research, know what

01:22:34.850 --> 01:22:38.000
you're getting if you live in an apartment. Don't

01:22:38.000 --> 01:22:39.939
get a Malinois or do get a Malinois. Leave that

01:22:39.939 --> 01:22:42.100
thing alone for 12 hours and leave them out and

01:22:42.100 --> 01:22:44.340
see what happens when you return home. You're

01:22:44.340 --> 01:22:47.180
going to have a new apartment. It's going to

01:22:47.180 --> 01:22:48.800
be real nice. He's going to hook you up real

01:22:48.800 --> 01:22:51.739
good. But no, that's not fair to the dog. And

01:22:51.739 --> 01:22:54.159
it also becomes a liability sometimes. Because

01:22:54.159 --> 01:22:57.960
if you don't stimulate the dog, the dog needs

01:22:57.960 --> 01:23:00.500
stimulation, physical and mental. And if you're

01:23:00.500 --> 01:23:03.220
not giving them stimulation, the dogs speak with

01:23:03.220 --> 01:23:06.319
their mouth, right? So the dogs might bite somebody

01:23:06.319 --> 01:23:08.609
because... dogs will be pissed off you're not

01:23:08.609 --> 01:23:10.909
stimulating it whether it's mental stimulation

01:23:10.909 --> 01:23:13.390
or physical stimulation dogs speak with their

01:23:13.390 --> 01:23:17.710
mouth you know it could be a problem absolutely

01:23:17.710 --> 01:23:19.930
well i got one more thing i want to explore and

01:23:19.930 --> 01:23:21.350
then go to some closing questions so i can let

01:23:21.350 --> 01:23:24.550
you go but you mentioned the tbi therapy what

01:23:24.550 --> 01:23:28.489
modalities actually work well for you and i think

01:23:28.489 --> 01:23:33.989
everybody's different i think everybody should

01:23:33.989 --> 01:23:36.409
just try a whole wide plethora of things man

01:23:36.840 --> 01:23:40.439
I think starting my spiritual connection was

01:23:40.439 --> 01:23:42.420
probably number one. And then other than that,

01:23:42.460 --> 01:23:45.460
diet and just life changes. And I think everybody's

01:23:45.460 --> 01:23:46.819
different. Everybody should look into different

01:23:46.819 --> 01:23:49.760
diets alone. Look into fasting. Look into intermittent

01:23:49.760 --> 01:23:52.479
fasting. I think give everything a good, decent

01:23:52.479 --> 01:23:56.479
shot. Try everything multiple times. If one thing's

01:23:56.479 --> 01:23:57.880
not working, like people told me to meditate

01:23:57.880 --> 01:24:00.560
so many times and it just ain't happening yet.

01:24:00.640 --> 01:24:04.699
So you can fight that battle or you can just

01:24:04.699 --> 01:24:08.819
do a little bit more research. Like I started

01:24:08.819 --> 01:24:10.880
learning about breathing. So I incorporated breathing

01:24:10.880 --> 01:24:14.380
and there's like chanting you can start doing.

01:24:14.479 --> 01:24:16.460
And there's all kinds of different methods that

01:24:16.460 --> 01:24:18.319
can try to put you in these different states.

01:24:18.420 --> 01:24:20.180
So when people tell you to meditate, you're just

01:24:20.180 --> 01:24:22.600
like, oh, I don't know. It ain't working. And

01:24:22.600 --> 01:24:24.340
then you just give up. You know, I'm definitely

01:24:24.340 --> 01:24:28.159
guilty of that. And even diet, you know, everybody's

01:24:28.159 --> 01:24:29.439
different just because one diet doesn't work.

01:24:29.600 --> 01:24:31.479
Maybe a different diet works. Maybe the carnivore

01:24:31.479 --> 01:24:34.949
diet's for you. Maybe. you know it's a plant

01:24:34.949 --> 01:24:36.590
-based diet who knows but just try everything

01:24:36.590 --> 01:24:41.029
give it a good shot like float tanks and um i

01:24:41.029 --> 01:24:43.770
think i think there's even you know getting into

01:24:43.770 --> 01:24:45.970
a good exercise program and a good stretching

01:24:45.970 --> 01:24:49.689
program is very beneficial but i also i try to

01:24:49.689 --> 01:24:52.029
i think breathing is very beneficial for me as

01:24:52.029 --> 01:24:54.329
well to try to get me into a nice calm meditative

01:24:54.329 --> 01:24:57.569
state so i also try to do my my stretching while

01:24:57.569 --> 01:25:00.390
i'm breathing to multitask because you know i

01:25:00.390 --> 01:25:03.140
can't just I don't have exactly all day sometimes.

01:25:04.260 --> 01:25:07.399
I can relate. Yeah, but I think everybody's different.

01:25:07.560 --> 01:25:09.340
I think you should just try a whole plethora

01:25:09.340 --> 01:25:11.439
of different things and just put these tools

01:25:11.439 --> 01:25:14.600
in your toolbox. And some of them work and some

01:25:14.600 --> 01:25:16.380
of them don't. And some of them you might need

01:25:16.380 --> 01:25:20.079
to use together. Sometimes people take CBD and

01:25:20.079 --> 01:25:24.420
do yoga or go in the float tank or do some breathing

01:25:24.420 --> 01:25:27.760
in the float tank. I don't know. Yeah, I swear

01:25:27.760 --> 01:25:32.300
by CBD. Oh, yeah. My buddy Jason Higgins, he's

01:25:32.300 --> 01:25:35.260
got a good thing going with some CBD. He's doing

01:25:35.260 --> 01:25:38.340
some great things out there. Brilliant. I think

01:25:38.340 --> 01:25:40.100
it's incredible. Now, you mentioned the meditation.

01:25:40.260 --> 01:25:43.579
Have you ever tried the app Headspace? I have.

01:25:43.739 --> 01:25:47.039
Oh, yeah. That's my gateway. I can't sit there

01:25:47.039 --> 01:25:50.340
and just be in a room quiet. But, yeah, that

01:25:50.340 --> 01:25:53.020
kind of very basic kind of kindergarten level

01:25:53.020 --> 01:25:55.840
meditation is what's kind of opened the door

01:25:55.840 --> 01:25:59.069
for me. Definitely, yeah. And I'm going to try

01:25:59.069 --> 01:26:02.170
it again probably. So I go through different

01:26:02.170 --> 01:26:04.390
phases. I think it's good for you to switch it

01:26:04.390 --> 01:26:06.010
up too, just like a workout program. If you get

01:26:06.010 --> 01:26:08.250
stuck on CrossFit for however many years, you

01:26:08.250 --> 01:26:11.710
need to switch it up, surprise your body. So

01:26:11.710 --> 01:26:15.170
I think just because I've been doing my breathing

01:26:15.170 --> 01:26:16.869
doesn't mean I can't try some headspace again

01:26:16.869 --> 01:26:19.170
or even try some of that chanting stuff or whatever.

01:26:19.250 --> 01:26:20.810
I don't know. Look into a couple of different

01:26:20.810 --> 01:26:27.039
things and see how my body reacts for sure. And

01:26:27.039 --> 01:26:29.220
then Kirk, the seal I told you about that became

01:26:29.220 --> 01:26:32.460
a doctor, he has a sleep supplement that is incredible.

01:26:32.779 --> 01:26:35.380
So if you're looking to improve the quality of

01:26:35.380 --> 01:26:39.279
your sleep, I'll send you the link to it. But

01:26:39.279 --> 01:26:41.899
it's amazing. I use it not every single day,

01:26:41.979 --> 01:26:44.100
but it's 30 minutes before you want to go to

01:26:44.100 --> 01:26:47.180
bed. It will put you to sleep, but it starts

01:26:47.180 --> 01:26:49.239
the cascade of sleep. It doesn't snow you with

01:26:49.239 --> 01:26:51.859
melatonin. So your quality of sleep is normally

01:26:51.859 --> 01:26:54.640
a lot better. That's so huge these days. That's

01:26:54.640 --> 01:26:57.350
the one thing I can't. really complain about

01:26:57.350 --> 01:26:59.489
my sleep has improved, but I'd please send me

01:26:59.489 --> 01:27:02.750
that information because I'm always up to try

01:27:02.750 --> 01:27:05.529
new things. Brilliant. I will. All right. So

01:27:05.529 --> 01:27:08.210
then go into the closing questions. Firstly,

01:27:08.369 --> 01:27:10.010
let's talk about the book. So the book is No

01:27:10.010 --> 01:27:13.729
Ordinary Dog. Where can people find that? Should

01:27:13.729 --> 01:27:15.930
be able to find it in all bookstores, anywhere

01:27:15.930 --> 01:27:20.010
online, Amazon. And there's also, so there's

01:27:20.010 --> 01:27:22.310
No Ordinary Dog. And then there's also the young

01:27:22.310 --> 01:27:25.750
adult reader version of it. which is called warrior

01:27:25.750 --> 01:27:29.590
dog excellent i'm gonna have to get that for

01:27:29.590 --> 01:27:32.189
my son my son's dog crazy as well but he's 13

01:27:32.189 --> 01:27:34.409
so he'd probably be fine reading the the main

01:27:34.409 --> 01:27:38.430
one but fantastic yeah the the main one isn't

01:27:38.430 --> 01:27:40.430
all that gory but it has a few cuss words in

01:27:40.430 --> 01:27:42.850
it and it is a war book so it has a little bit

01:27:42.850 --> 01:27:46.109
of stuff in there but we figured uh so i donated

01:27:46.109 --> 01:27:50.350
cairo's vest to the 9 -11 museum and it um one

01:27:50.350 --> 01:27:52.529
of the guys there kind of explained how Well,

01:27:52.569 --> 01:27:54.770
number one, 9 -11 happened so long ago that a

01:27:54.770 --> 01:27:58.029
bunch of kids these days don't even know what

01:27:58.029 --> 01:28:01.890
9 -11 is sometimes. And when they do come to

01:28:01.890 --> 01:28:07.149
the museum, you know, some items relate better.

01:28:07.250 --> 01:28:09.710
They get the point across better than others,

01:28:09.789 --> 01:28:12.270
like boots or helmets, whether that's, you know,

01:28:12.270 --> 01:28:14.829
from a soldier or a firefighter. And he said

01:28:14.829 --> 01:28:17.270
any dog items can definitely help, you know,

01:28:17.270 --> 01:28:19.970
kind of get the message across. When I donated

01:28:19.970 --> 01:28:21.609
Cairo's vest there, it kind of opened my eyes

01:28:21.609 --> 01:28:23.229
to that. I thought that was really cool. And

01:28:23.229 --> 01:28:26.369
I guess they saw that same potential with the

01:28:26.369 --> 01:28:29.569
book when they read No Ordinary Dog. No Ordinary

01:28:29.569 --> 01:28:32.029
Dog is a great book. It's like a Navy SEAL Marley

01:28:32.029 --> 01:28:34.750
and me. It's great for anybody. It's anybody

01:28:34.750 --> 01:28:37.409
who loves dogs or animals. It's a great dog story.

01:28:37.649 --> 01:28:39.890
It's anybody that wants to join the military,

01:28:40.149 --> 01:28:43.409
be a dog handler, be a SEAL. And I think the

01:28:43.409 --> 01:28:46.029
kids' book is great for the same. Any kids that

01:28:46.029 --> 01:28:48.270
are aspiring to... Just even learn about what

01:28:48.270 --> 01:28:49.989
their parents do in the military or anything

01:28:49.989 --> 01:28:54.250
about dogs in the military. I hope everybody

01:28:54.250 --> 01:28:57.869
really enjoys Cairo's story and gets something

01:28:57.869 --> 01:29:00.329
out of it and gets to learn it's a piece of history.

01:29:00.710 --> 01:29:04.250
I only had one shot at telling the story, so

01:29:04.250 --> 01:29:05.789
I was pretty nervous about getting it out there.

01:29:06.770 --> 01:29:09.069
Looking at the reviews online, everybody seems

01:29:09.069 --> 01:29:11.579
to love it, so I'm very happy. Yeah, no, they

01:29:11.579 --> 01:29:13.020
do. And like we were talking before we started

01:29:13.020 --> 01:29:16.180
recording, you know, I've been engrossed in that

01:29:16.180 --> 01:29:19.939
whole metadata reviews thing as I'm kind of trying

01:29:19.939 --> 01:29:22.140
to get ready to put my book out. And yeah, compared

01:29:22.140 --> 01:29:23.939
to a lot of them out there, it's been extremely

01:29:23.939 --> 01:29:27.539
well received. It's perfect. I mean, it's a dog

01:29:27.539 --> 01:29:30.060
book. Everybody loves dogs. And it's a, he was

01:29:30.060 --> 01:29:32.159
a great pup. Yeah, he really was. Well, it's

01:29:32.159 --> 01:29:33.680
a hell of a story too. But I listened to it on

01:29:33.680 --> 01:29:35.300
Audible. So for everyone out there, it's also

01:29:35.300 --> 01:29:38.779
an audio book. And that was the element I listened

01:29:38.779 --> 01:29:41.479
to. And it was you narrating, wasn't it? I did

01:29:41.479 --> 01:29:43.939
narrate it myself. So if you like hearing my

01:29:43.939 --> 01:29:47.500
voice, they said everybody would enjoy it a little

01:29:47.500 --> 01:29:49.560
bit better. So I was like, okay, let's do this.

01:29:49.659 --> 01:29:52.119
Yeah. It turned out good. I agree. I think biography

01:29:52.119 --> 01:29:53.819
should be, you know, it's different if it's a

01:29:53.819 --> 01:29:56.680
novel or something, but brilliant. I had Cairo

01:29:56.680 --> 01:30:00.319
do it. In spirit. He's not participating. In

01:30:00.319 --> 01:30:04.300
spirit. He was there. All right. Then the first

01:30:04.300 --> 01:30:06.300
of the closing questions, is there a book someone

01:30:06.300 --> 01:30:08.500
else has written that you love to recommend to

01:30:08.500 --> 01:30:10.420
people? It can be something related to what we

01:30:10.420 --> 01:30:12.239
discussed today or something completely different.

01:30:12.779 --> 01:30:14.659
Oh, man, that's a great question. There's so

01:30:14.659 --> 01:30:19.079
many great books out there. It's hard to just

01:30:19.079 --> 01:30:23.680
recommend just one. Let's come back to that question.

01:30:23.779 --> 01:30:25.460
Give me a minute to think. Okay. And it can be

01:30:25.460 --> 01:30:26.699
more than one. It doesn't have to be just one.

01:30:27.500 --> 01:30:30.300
Same question, but a movie. Any movies you love?

01:30:35.790 --> 01:30:38.130
Of course, you go with Navy Seals or Charlie

01:30:38.130 --> 01:30:42.029
Sheen. That's any movies I love. Let's see. We

01:30:42.029 --> 01:30:43.609
just watched the other day. One of my favorites.

01:30:43.829 --> 01:30:47.750
The Other Guys. One of my top comedies. Love

01:30:47.750 --> 01:30:51.529
that movie. Brilliant. I heard you mention...

01:30:51.529 --> 01:30:53.890
Was it with Mike Ritland? You mentioned Max.

01:30:54.250 --> 01:30:57.270
What did you think of that film? I can't remember

01:30:57.270 --> 01:31:00.630
how it went. I just... I know I cried. It's been

01:31:00.630 --> 01:31:02.239
a while since I've seen it. I cried like a girl

01:31:02.239 --> 01:31:04.260
watching it. Did you? Yes. I can't remember.

01:31:04.380 --> 01:31:07.840
It's been quite a while since I've seen it. Yeah,

01:31:07.960 --> 01:31:12.140
it's hard for me to remember. All right. So the

01:31:12.140 --> 01:31:13.600
next question, is there a person you recommend

01:31:13.600 --> 01:31:16.500
to come on this podcast as a guest to speak to

01:31:16.500 --> 01:31:18.340
the first responders, military, and associated

01:31:18.340 --> 01:31:22.100
professions of the world? There's a bunch of

01:31:22.100 --> 01:31:23.680
great guys out there talking these days, you

01:31:23.680 --> 01:31:28.210
know, Jocko and Goggins. All those guys. I would

01:31:28.210 --> 01:31:29.689
say the same thing that goes with the books.

01:31:29.810 --> 01:31:31.850
The recent books, I just listened to Jocko's

01:31:31.850 --> 01:31:34.989
and David Goggins has a great one. Dan Crenshaw

01:31:34.989 --> 01:31:38.189
just came out with a great book. Those would

01:31:38.189 --> 01:31:41.149
be Jack Carr with The Terminal List. It's a good

01:31:41.149 --> 01:31:44.949
one. And there's a recent one. Yeah, Jack was

01:31:44.949 --> 01:31:47.270
on, Jocko's been on, and then David's supposed

01:31:47.270 --> 01:31:49.449
to be coming on. But I think, I want to say they're

01:31:49.449 --> 01:31:51.770
in a holding pattern for his new book. So hopefully

01:31:51.770 --> 01:31:54.140
when that comes out, we'll get him on. Yeah,

01:31:54.159 --> 01:31:55.500
those are all really good. That's who I would

01:31:55.500 --> 01:31:58.020
obviously recommend. That's who I've been listening

01:31:58.020 --> 01:32:00.979
to recently, so might as well. Brilliant. All

01:32:00.979 --> 01:32:02.819
right, so then the last question before we make

01:32:02.819 --> 01:32:04.899
sure everyone knows where to find you. What do

01:32:04.899 --> 01:32:11.560
you do to decompress? Well, I was wakeboarding

01:32:11.560 --> 01:32:14.500
a lot recently. Oh, really? Trying to get back

01:32:14.500 --> 01:32:20.859
into a good training schedule, but my boat broke.

01:32:23.760 --> 01:32:27.000
all good boats in the shop but these days you

01:32:27.000 --> 01:32:29.180
know i just try to uh do something physical trying

01:32:29.180 --> 01:32:31.680
to enjoy summer try to spend a lot of time on

01:32:31.680 --> 01:32:35.420
the water while the water's warm brilliant yeah

01:32:35.420 --> 01:32:37.880
i love wakeboarding things are going dude i love

01:32:37.880 --> 01:32:41.159
it it's it's been it's been quite with the the

01:32:41.159 --> 01:32:42.960
whole everything getting shut down recently just

01:32:42.960 --> 01:32:45.359
uh the boat was working just fine we put a lot

01:32:45.359 --> 01:32:48.880
of hours on it recently but then you know nothing

01:32:49.390 --> 01:32:51.449
Nothing lasts forever. I hit a deer the other

01:32:51.449 --> 01:32:53.470
day, so my truck's gone, then my boat broke.

01:32:54.510 --> 01:32:56.270
There's always something that comes in threes.

01:32:56.850 --> 01:32:58.590
There's been a couple of more things that have

01:32:58.590 --> 01:32:59.869
happened that I'm working through, but it's all

01:32:59.869 --> 01:33:02.090
good. We're going to get that boat back soon

01:33:02.090 --> 01:33:06.090
before summer's over. I don't know, man. Until

01:33:06.090 --> 01:33:07.850
then, I'm just going to try to fill my time with

01:33:07.850 --> 01:33:11.789
something productive. When you said you hit a

01:33:11.789 --> 01:33:12.829
deer, I thought you were going to say on your

01:33:12.829 --> 01:33:14.250
boat. I'm like, well, you're probably not doing

01:33:14.250 --> 01:33:16.310
that right then. That would have been interesting.

01:33:16.590 --> 01:33:20.210
That would have been good. It always comes in

01:33:20.210 --> 01:33:22.609
waves. But other than that, these days, just

01:33:22.609 --> 01:33:25.109
trying to keep busy, trying to get my boat back.

01:33:25.649 --> 01:33:29.550
And yeah, that's about it. Fantastic. What about

01:33:29.550 --> 01:33:32.829
you? How's everything going on your end? Good,

01:33:33.050 --> 01:33:35.710
good, yeah. No, I'm actually – I had a good day

01:33:35.710 --> 01:33:39.229
today. I had the book cover sent to me. So, yeah,

01:33:39.350 --> 01:33:41.470
it is a roller coaster. Everything is up and

01:33:41.470 --> 01:33:43.630
down. But I'm on the upswing. I know you're –

01:33:44.159 --> 01:33:46.340
You're having issues right now with the boats

01:33:46.340 --> 01:33:48.760
and the trucks and the phones, but yeah. It's

01:33:48.760 --> 01:33:52.199
all good. It's kind of put a delay on a few things,

01:33:52.300 --> 01:33:54.380
but it was great to be able to talk to you. Today

01:33:54.380 --> 01:33:56.680
was a great day as well. Yeah, no, I've loved

01:33:56.680 --> 01:33:58.100
this. We'll try to do something productive. Yeah,

01:33:58.159 --> 01:34:00.680
it was a good conversation. Thank you. Just so

01:34:00.680 --> 01:34:02.119
that everyone knows how to reach you online,

01:34:02.380 --> 01:34:05.020
where's your Instagram handle and do you have

01:34:05.020 --> 01:34:07.800
any websites or anything you can send them towards?

01:34:08.619 --> 01:34:12.939
Yeah, Instagram is noordinarydogbook. is my book

01:34:12.939 --> 01:34:14.899
page. And then I have a personal page, which

01:34:14.899 --> 01:34:18.680
is will cheese with three E's, which is a little

01:34:18.680 --> 01:34:23.180
weird, but fantastic. Well, well, I just want

01:34:23.180 --> 01:34:24.979
to say thank you so much. Thank you obviously

01:34:24.979 --> 01:34:27.020
for your service, but I mean, that goes without

01:34:27.020 --> 01:34:29.279
saying, but thank you for telling the story.

01:34:29.319 --> 01:34:30.920
Cause I know it's not an easy story, especially

01:34:30.920 --> 01:34:33.760
when, you know, when people come on and they

01:34:33.760 --> 01:34:36.640
tell not only the cool element of their story,

01:34:36.640 --> 01:34:39.779
but the. the vulnerable courageous part which

01:34:39.779 --> 01:34:41.960
is the the struggles whether it's physical struggles

01:34:41.960 --> 01:34:44.560
mental struggles and then the journey out which

01:34:44.560 --> 01:34:46.899
gives people hope as well but i mean your story

01:34:46.899 --> 01:34:49.619
and obviously cairo story is something that everyone

01:34:49.619 --> 01:34:51.640
needs to hear and so thank you for writing the

01:34:51.640 --> 01:34:53.399
book but more importantly thank you for taking

01:34:53.399 --> 01:34:56.060
the time and coming on the podcast today yeah

01:34:56.060 --> 01:34:57.539
i appreciate you having me that's one of the

01:34:57.539 --> 01:34:59.960
reasons that writing it i get to tell cairo story

01:34:59.960 --> 01:35:02.039
it's a big piece of history i get to bring attention

01:35:02.039 --> 01:35:05.039
to some of the amazing things that these dogs

01:35:05.039 --> 01:35:08.350
do which you know of and then um If I'm going

01:35:08.350 --> 01:35:09.869
to be doing all that, I might as well tell some

01:35:09.869 --> 01:35:11.369
of my own personal story. I know there's a lot

01:35:11.369 --> 01:35:14.229
of people out there that are hurting. The veteran

01:35:14.229 --> 01:35:16.609
suicide rate is terrible, but there's a lot more

01:35:16.609 --> 01:35:18.810
people than just veterans that are hurting, whether

01:35:18.810 --> 01:35:21.210
it's military or first responders. We all deal

01:35:21.210 --> 01:35:24.109
with our trauma in different ways, and we all

01:35:24.109 --> 01:35:26.930
have to go through our stuff. Telling my story

01:35:26.930 --> 01:35:30.510
can bring attention to some of these modalities

01:35:30.510 --> 01:35:32.029
that might be able to help you, whether it's

01:35:32.029 --> 01:35:35.390
go getting a dog and making you happy. trying

01:35:35.390 --> 01:35:37.289
some of this hippie woo stuff, whether it's breathing

01:35:37.289 --> 01:35:39.390
or fasting or meditating, or I don't know, man,

01:35:39.409 --> 01:35:42.489
if I could get somebody's attention to maybe

01:35:42.489 --> 01:35:44.550
get them on the right path. And man, that makes

01:35:44.550 --> 01:35:46.890
me happy because I got to do something. So I

01:35:46.890 --> 01:35:48.710
don't want to waste my time too much. So if I

01:35:48.710 --> 01:35:51.550
can help somebody out, that really makes me happy.