WEBVTT

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This episode is sponsored by TeamBuildr, yet

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another company that's doing great things for

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the first responder community. As a strength

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things is obviously it tracks. To me, it's imperative

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that we as a profession start tracking our people

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from day one and then over the full span of their

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career, therefore catching potential wellness

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issues and injuries before they happen. Now,

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if you want to try TeamBuildr, they are offering

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a free 14 -day trial to experience all of the

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features. And if you want to take a deeper dive

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into Team Builder, listen to episode 1032 with

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Melissa Mercado or go to teambuildr .com. And

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I'll spell that to you because it's not as you

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think, T -E -A -M -B -U -I -L -D -R .com. Welcome

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to the Behind the Shield podcast. As always,

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my name is James Gearing, and this week it is

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my absolute honor to welcome on the show flight

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nurse and author Eric Usher. Now, in this conversation,

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we discuss a host of topics from Eric's journey

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into the world of nursing, pre -hospital medicine,

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the idiosyncrasies of flight medicine, cadaver

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labs. using children's books to educate our children

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on what we do in the police and fire uniforms,

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and so much more. Now, before we get to this

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incredible conversation, as I say every week,

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please just take a moment, go to whichever app

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you listen to this on, subscribe to the show,

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leave feedback, and leave a rating. Every single

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five -star rating truly does elevate this podcast,

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therefore making it easier for others to find.

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And this is a free library of well over 1 ,000

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episodes now. So all I ask in return is that

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you help share these incredible men and women's

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stories so I can get them to every single person

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on planet Earth who needs to hear them. So with

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that being said, I introduce to you, Eric. usher

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enjoy well eric i want to start by saying thank

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you so much for taking the time and coming on

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the behind the shield podcast today Honestly,

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the thanks are all on my end. You did an amazing

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job. I think I told you this in private, you

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know, after we dialogue, I feel like I have imposter

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syndrome because the caliber of people you have

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speak and the stories you get out of them are

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fantastic. So the pleasure is all mine, really.

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Thank you for taking the time. No problem at

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all. So where on planet Earth are we finding

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you today? I am in beautiful Davis Islands in

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Tampa, Florida. Fantastic. So let's start at

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the very beginning of your timeline because I

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know it takes you all over the place. Tell me

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where you were born and tell me a little bit

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about your family dynamic, what your parents

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did, how many siblings. If I get wordy, rein

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me in. You're all the time in the world. Born

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in Bristol, Connecticut. It's a small town. Right

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now it's known for ESPN's headquarters in Bristol.

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Before that, it wasn't known for much of anything.

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Born there in 73. grew up there until I was about

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10 years old. The reason we made a move to Terryville,

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Connecticut, where really the bulk of my life

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has been before I left, is my parents, my father

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was a machine shop worker. No collegiate education,

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no formal education. My mother was a secretary.

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And so they did a lot to make ends meet, multiple

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shifts. So we didn't... grow up in the most affluent

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environment. I didn't spend the same year in

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a school until middle school, which would have

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been seventh grade. Every year was a different

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school just because we couldn't afford the rent

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or the checks would bounce. So we just moved

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house to house to house. And then at age 10,

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we lived pretty close to a more dilapidated and

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crime -ridden part of Bristol. And I was jumped

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while I was on my bicycle by about five or six

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guys. And my parents were like, okay, we're moving

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to Terryville. It's safer. It's a smaller town.

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And so we moved to Terryville, which was great.

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Terryville is a very small town. I think there

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was maybe 4 ,000 people in the town. My high

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school had less than 400 people in the whole

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school, but I was afforded some opportunities

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there that I would never have been afforded in

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Bristol. So I have one brother, Carl, he's older,

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a couple of years, two and a half years. The

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kind of fast forward to like where I became infatuated

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with EMS started with my brother. He was dating

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a girl and. That girl's mother was a nurse at

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Bristol Hospital. She was the educator. And she

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convinced my brother that he should go and be

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an EMT. So he went to EMT school. And of course,

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there's always sibling rivalry. So I would poke

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fun at him all the time, you know, look at you

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riding the ambulance. And then he said, you know,

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well, there's no way you could ever even pass

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that test. I bet you couldn't even, you know,

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make it in halfway through the class. So my career

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in EMS started on a bet with my brother. So the

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small town it was, I had a volunteer ambulance

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service. I went to Bristol Hospital. And while

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I was in middle school, I was in the beginning

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of high school. I was 15 years old when I started.

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So every Friday night, I would go to EMT school,

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which was atypical for that age group. Small

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town, you know, you're out partying and having

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a good time. Not that I didn't do that. But anyway,

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I got my EMT and... uh the very first call i

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had was a cardiac arrest and i can describe that

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like it's happened right in front of me now i

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mean rolling up this three -story home and the

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screams were the first thing i heard you know

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this this man's daughter was just screaming and

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crying and i was 15 years old and just had no

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idea really what was going on so uh Ran the cardiac

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arrest up on the third floor. He was, you know,

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wedged between a toilet and a wall. And I'm just

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taking it all in going, how are we even going

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to get this guy down? And the medic's like, Eric,

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get on the chest. And so I get on the chest because

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that's about the only thing that I could do.

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And then he's like, hey, jackrabbit, slow it

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down a little bit, you know. So all this adrenaline

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is coming out and I'm mimicking my heart rate

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with each compression. But we get the guy down.

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We get him to the hospital and, you know. It

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wasn't a save. There was no rosk. But like digesting

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this whole thing that happened in front of me,

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the sights, the sounds, the smells, it was captivating.

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And I couldn't process why it was captivating.

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But that kind of launched me into being thankful

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to be in this small little town because the high

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school was two houses down from our ambulance

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corps, our volunteer ambulance corps. So when

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I was 16. I was able to run ambulance calls all

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four years of high school. I carried a pager

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that kept my GPA. Pager would go off, leave class,

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hop out the window, go over to the ambulance

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corps and go run calls and come back with a Dunkin'

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Donuts coffee and some McDonald's. And it was

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it was pretty cool. I don't think many places

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you can do that, you know, with that. But it's

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a double edged sword growing up in a small town

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like that when you're doing EMS. I mean, you

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know. You see the seedier side of behind the

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closed door. And in a small town, you know, you're

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seeing things you shouldn't see of people you

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go to school with. You know, there was a point

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one time where I had to even call Child Protective

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Services on classmates after running a call.

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And it just creates a weird environment. But

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anyway, that's how I got an EMS. And that's,

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you know, born in Bristol, raised in Terryville.

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Went to nursing school. Again, didn't have a

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lot of funds and got a few scholarships, but

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went to a two -year diploma program at St. Francis

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High School School of Nursing. No longer exists.

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I was there for like 100 and something years.

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Phenomenal education. And then I started being

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a nurse and still ran EMS. And I don't know how

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far you want me to go. Well, firstly, what happened

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to the nursing school after such a legacy? It

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was a diploma program. So I'm sure you're aware

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of, you know, magnet status and the push for

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the bachelor nurse. And, you know, a diploma

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program was the was the best nursing schools.

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I mean, I'll say that debatably, but, you know,

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within week two, you're doing clinical. So it

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was OJT. Education, you know, your hands on clinical

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from day one, you're carrying full assignments

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by your graduation. And, you know, it was just

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targeted nursing education. But the demise of

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all those diploma programs was the proliferation

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of, you know, the ideology that you have to have

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a degree to be better. And I disagree with that

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on many levels. And, you know, there's some of

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the smartest people I know don't have initials

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behind their name. The push for that kind of

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negated that whole diploma program. So it's gone.

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That's so sad to hear. And it's funny because

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in the fire service, there's been a big push

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for degrees when it comes to promotion. And if

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higher education created better leadership, then

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we wouldn't have a recruitment crisis. And we

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wouldn't be losing first responders left, right,

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and center to physical and mental health issues.

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So clearly, a degree alone is not the be -all,

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end -all when it comes to EMS or first responder

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professions. No, no, you're 100 % correct. So,

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but yeah, I mean, and what else do you want to

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know about that part? Well, let's go back to

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volunteering because I've had a few people on

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now that volunteer EMS specifically. Yep. Firstly,

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as we sit here now in our 50s and you have a

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pretty mature journeyman's lens in the whole

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world of EMS, what is your perspective of people

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that young entering, especially kind of fire

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EMS side and then getting to kind of witness

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some of the horrors that we do at such a young

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age? Yes. So I do have quite a kind of a bipolar

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view of that in the fact that one, for me. It

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offered opportunities that never would have arisen.

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I have no idea what I would have done. It gave

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me a channel and an outlet and a group of friends

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that got my sense of humor or did my sense of

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humor develop out of those group of friends.

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You know, it's it gave me camaraderie. It gave

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me purpose, particularly in a small town. That's,

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you know, people can get stuck in a cycle. But

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you're 100 percent correct. I mean, just just

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Sunday. um the bitter side of a young internet

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field is we're sitting outside it's beautiful

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weather easter sunday my wife and i are waiting

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for our daughter to arrive and i'm like i saw

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my first gunshot wound in fatality and i was

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15 years old on easter sunday left upper chest

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like that's not normal no you know and and here

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i am 51 and that just pops into my head and then

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so it takes a toll does it mature you I guess

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mature is a weird word, but it definitely exposes

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that that seedier side of the world that most

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people are shrouded from. So it takes a toll.

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I'd lie to you if I didn't. So I think it's I

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think the volunteer aspect is great. It's sad

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that it's dwindling, but there's got to be a

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better way. I feel like at that age. That's a

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beautiful time for a mentorship type program.

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So you're exposed to the profession without being

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front and center of these unending traumas. But

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when you listen to the neuroscientists, the developing

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brain, I mean, I would argue that 18 is too young

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for a fire and EMS, to be honest. Law enforcement

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does 21. I think that would actually be a better

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one because then that gives a young person three

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years to whether they want to go further their

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academic. journey or spend a few years in the

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trades and get some kind of life skills under

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them first. But yeah, I mean, when we know now

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that the brain is simply not developed yet to

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pour on the level of trauma that we see in a

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lot of cities and suburban communities, I think

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it's really irresponsible now that we have the

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knowledge. I agree. And the downside is when

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we talk about how do you cultivate and mentor

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someone into a position without exposure to the

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trauma? And there's the side of that where it

00:14:23.740 --> 00:14:26.059
says, okay, I'm grooming you for this, but I'm

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not letting you peek behind the curtain yet.

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And now you might have someone who's convinced

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that's what they want to do. And then they get

00:14:31.879 --> 00:14:35.159
there and they feel maybe it's too late to back

00:14:35.159 --> 00:14:38.899
out and find something different. I don't think

00:14:38.899 --> 00:14:40.980
there's an easy answer to that, but you're right.

00:14:41.139 --> 00:14:44.059
I mean, neuroscientifically, it's proven. We're

00:14:44.059 --> 00:14:47.419
just not ready. Well, I think we can apply the

00:14:47.419 --> 00:14:50.600
same thing even to any crew. Like, for example,

00:14:50.740 --> 00:14:52.620
I wrote about it in my first book, but I had

00:14:52.620 --> 00:14:54.940
one of the deadliest days was my last shift in

00:14:54.940 --> 00:14:56.820
Orange County. And it wasn't why I left. I'd

00:14:56.820 --> 00:15:00.120
already put my papers in. But the second of the

00:15:00.120 --> 00:15:02.639
three was a homeless woman that was missing for

00:15:02.639 --> 00:15:05.240
a few days. And we start going through the woods

00:15:05.240 --> 00:15:07.759
in Orlando and get to a point like, OK, that

00:15:07.759 --> 00:15:09.379
smells like someone who's been missing for a

00:15:09.379 --> 00:15:11.759
few days. So everyone else, I'm like, I'll go

00:15:11.759 --> 00:15:14.179
check. You guys just go back. And the same thing

00:15:14.179 --> 00:15:15.879
happened to me when I was a young firefighter.

00:15:15.879 --> 00:15:17.899
The whole crew doesn't need to see it. And I

00:15:17.899 --> 00:15:19.320
think you could apply that. Yeah, there's going

00:15:19.320 --> 00:15:22.039
to be some scenes where a younger person maybe

00:15:22.039 --> 00:15:25.220
might get exposed to it, but you work as a mentor

00:15:25.220 --> 00:15:27.559
to minimize that. If there's a horrific fire

00:15:27.559 --> 00:15:29.779
or something, no, you're not going in to go look

00:15:29.779 --> 00:15:31.740
at the crispy critters inside. You're just going

00:15:31.740 --> 00:15:33.759
to stay out here. But I think that's a good philosophy.

00:15:34.279 --> 00:15:36.320
It doesn't matter if it's your first day on the

00:15:36.320 --> 00:15:38.580
job or the last day on the job. There's no medals

00:15:38.580 --> 00:15:40.460
for seeing the most shit. There just aren't.

00:15:41.679 --> 00:15:46.049
But there used to be. These unspoken, I'm going

00:15:46.049 --> 00:15:49.309
home with blood on my, if my uniform isn't bloody,

00:15:49.429 --> 00:15:52.490
it wasn't a good shift. And it's nice to see

00:15:52.490 --> 00:15:56.690
that that's changed. It's changing. But yeah,

00:15:56.909 --> 00:15:59.990
you're right. I mean, you can't unsee those things.

00:16:00.110 --> 00:16:03.590
And more importantly, how many people see those

00:16:03.590 --> 00:16:06.389
things that aren't ready for them and don't have

00:16:06.389 --> 00:16:09.330
the ability to process that or know how to process

00:16:09.330 --> 00:16:13.059
it or find someone to process that with? And

00:16:13.059 --> 00:16:14.620
then it just eats away at them. And we've seen

00:16:14.620 --> 00:16:18.820
that all too often. Absolutely. Well, staying

00:16:18.820 --> 00:16:21.220
on your small town before we progress through

00:16:21.220 --> 00:16:24.059
your career. Another thing that I never experienced,

00:16:24.159 --> 00:16:27.039
really, because I never really lived in the actual

00:16:27.039 --> 00:16:29.899
neighborhood that I served, even the closest

00:16:29.899 --> 00:16:32.629
I was still about. 15 miles away and then most

00:16:32.629 --> 00:16:34.929
of the time i was 70 miles away but you know

00:16:34.929 --> 00:16:36.570
i still when i visit those towns i'm like oh

00:16:36.570 --> 00:16:38.210
yeah that was the dead hooker and dumpster and

00:16:38.210 --> 00:16:39.549
yeah that was a gangbanger hanging out of his

00:16:39.549 --> 00:16:42.370
car and we've all we all know what that feels

00:16:42.370 --> 00:16:46.570
like but when you hear the volunteers you have

00:16:46.570 --> 00:16:49.169
two things firstly the the spouses or the family

00:16:49.169 --> 00:16:51.029
members of volunteers have said well when the

00:16:51.029 --> 00:16:53.470
pager goes off we don't know what they're going

00:16:53.470 --> 00:16:55.529
to or if they're going to come back whereas when

00:16:55.529 --> 00:16:58.990
we go to work on a shift you know we're not responding

00:16:58.990 --> 00:17:01.970
to a call In a quiet department, you may not

00:17:01.970 --> 00:17:04.329
even get a call. Unlikely, but it's possible.

00:17:04.609 --> 00:17:07.190
But the other thing is you're running on your

00:17:07.190 --> 00:17:09.029
friends. You're running on your teachers, on

00:17:09.029 --> 00:17:12.250
your sports coaches, on your pastors. So when

00:17:12.250 --> 00:17:15.170
you look back now, let's just kind of be a voice

00:17:15.170 --> 00:17:17.730
for the volunteers and other people that work

00:17:17.730 --> 00:17:20.029
in those small communities, because I think that's

00:17:20.029 --> 00:17:22.809
another layer that most of us don't experience

00:17:22.809 --> 00:17:29.009
that live outside where we work. Yeah, it's tough.

00:17:29.579 --> 00:17:32.859
um after volunteering i'll get back to your question

00:17:32.859 --> 00:17:36.039
in a half a second is once i became a nurse and

00:17:36.039 --> 00:17:38.460
i worked in a big inner city trauma center i

00:17:38.460 --> 00:17:40.720
thought i would never work in a hospital that

00:17:40.720 --> 00:17:42.980
was the same place that i live because of that

00:17:42.980 --> 00:17:47.680
you know it it particularly if you're younger

00:17:47.680 --> 00:17:51.700
and volunteer and you know when you do cpr in

00:17:51.700 --> 00:17:54.599
somebody's grandfather or father or you go into

00:17:54.599 --> 00:17:57.960
domestic violence it's very difficult on any

00:17:57.960 --> 00:18:00.400
given day to kind of process that but when you

00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:03.740
repeatedly see these people i think there needs

00:18:03.740 --> 00:18:07.460
to be a very healthy mental health aspect of

00:18:07.460 --> 00:18:10.240
it or more importantly like a deep more formalized

00:18:10.240 --> 00:18:14.720
debriefing process you know in granted this was

00:18:14.720 --> 00:18:16.960
quite a time ago but that volunteer agency didn't

00:18:16.960 --> 00:18:20.200
have those debriefs if they did it was for something

00:18:20.200 --> 00:18:23.529
that was profoundly catastrophic But I think

00:18:23.529 --> 00:18:25.769
those happen, need to happen more often, particularly

00:18:25.769 --> 00:18:29.710
in a small volunteer community where it's okay.

00:18:29.950 --> 00:18:31.910
You know, you're going to run into these people.

00:18:32.009 --> 00:18:33.470
You're going to see them, like you said, at the

00:18:33.470 --> 00:18:35.730
grocery store, at schools, at the gas station.

00:18:36.009 --> 00:18:39.750
And initially it's this kind of, you know, avoidance.

00:18:39.990 --> 00:18:44.049
I don't want to, but there needs to be mentorship

00:18:44.049 --> 00:18:48.230
and guidance on how to approach that. You know,

00:18:48.269 --> 00:18:53.450
there's the HIPAA. And it blurs in small towns

00:18:53.450 --> 00:18:56.630
when volunteerism happens. I don't have the answer

00:18:56.630 --> 00:18:59.829
for you of what's the best way. I do know that

00:18:59.829 --> 00:19:02.569
turning a blind eye to it for those volunteers,

00:19:02.750 --> 00:19:06.430
those explorer programs, educating them up front

00:19:06.430 --> 00:19:09.250
that this is the reality of it, that there has

00:19:09.250 --> 00:19:11.750
to be a way that we need to openly discuss this.

00:19:11.829 --> 00:19:13.589
We have a hotline. Let's do whatever the case

00:19:13.589 --> 00:19:17.140
is. you know in the town i grew up in it was

00:19:17.140 --> 00:19:21.339
a a segregated volunteer fire volunteer ems so

00:19:21.339 --> 00:19:25.740
um it almost had this little underscore of uh

00:19:25.740 --> 00:19:30.079
tension and betterment of either but more of

00:19:30.079 --> 00:19:32.859
that cohesive let's talk about that car accident

00:19:32.859 --> 00:19:36.660
together you know let's Yeah, there's just the

00:19:36.660 --> 00:19:40.519
debriefing process of being OK, openly discussing

00:19:40.519 --> 00:19:43.140
in a private manner. And how do we deal with

00:19:43.140 --> 00:19:44.799
that moving forward? Because we're going to run

00:19:44.799 --> 00:19:47.539
into something. Absolutely. Yeah, I've said this

00:19:47.539 --> 00:19:53.839
many times, the ego that is involved, that the

00:19:53.839 --> 00:19:56.359
person or the department, really the person we're

00:19:56.359 --> 00:19:58.859
talking about, you know, people that have created

00:19:58.859 --> 00:20:01.680
a culture where all cities better than county

00:20:01.680 --> 00:20:05.170
or we don't talk to PD. In an environment where

00:20:05.170 --> 00:20:07.029
the only way that you're going to serve your

00:20:07.029 --> 00:20:09.490
community properly is to have interagency relationships

00:20:09.490 --> 00:20:13.829
is unacceptable. And then you think about, well,

00:20:13.849 --> 00:20:16.650
if that culture is proliferated as far as looking

00:20:16.650 --> 00:20:19.849
down your nose at other departments, then what

00:20:19.849 --> 00:20:21.430
is it like when it comes to the mental health

00:20:21.430 --> 00:20:23.289
conversation? I guarantee you, if you've got

00:20:23.289 --> 00:20:26.009
an arrogant fire department, you're going to

00:20:26.009 --> 00:20:28.089
see a very toxic culture when it comes to mental

00:20:28.089 --> 00:20:30.410
health. And then if you look behind the curtain

00:20:30.410 --> 00:20:32.670
at the alcoholism and the addiction and the suicides.

00:20:33.109 --> 00:20:34.750
I guarantee you there's a linear relationship

00:20:34.750 --> 00:20:40.250
there. 100 % agree with that. Yes. In my career,

00:20:40.289 --> 00:20:44.289
I've worked medical device for several different

00:20:44.289 --> 00:20:48.289
companies, and I had really the honor to go behind

00:20:48.289 --> 00:20:51.369
the scenes of a lot of fire departments, huge,

00:20:51.369 --> 00:20:57.130
small, rural, inner city, and seeing that little

00:20:57.130 --> 00:20:59.210
peek behind the curtains of other departments

00:20:59.210 --> 00:21:02.210
and the cultures and how it follows. yeah you're

00:21:02.210 --> 00:21:05.769
right spot on so what was it that took you towards

00:21:05.769 --> 00:21:08.309
the nursing side as opposed to the paramedic

00:21:08.309 --> 00:21:14.990
side um opportunity and money so in the state

00:21:14.990 --> 00:21:18.569
of connecticut back then which i actually enjoy

00:21:18.569 --> 00:21:21.049
that process you had to be an emt for x amount

00:21:21.049 --> 00:21:22.609
of time before you can be an emt intermediate

00:21:22.609 --> 00:21:26.089
before you can take your paramedic so you know

00:21:26.089 --> 00:21:29.059
you've gained experience along each way and then

00:21:29.059 --> 00:21:31.460
you were kind of culminated in where you can

00:21:31.460 --> 00:21:34.539
take a paramedicine course and and get that paramedic

00:21:34.539 --> 00:21:39.500
certificate um right out of high school i could

00:21:39.500 --> 00:21:42.460
go and in two years be an rn making more money

00:21:42.460 --> 00:21:45.559
from a two -year diploma program than the graduated

00:21:45.559 --> 00:21:49.299
paramedic program and then as a nurse i can sit

00:21:49.299 --> 00:21:54.450
for the paramedic exam so it there That kind

00:21:54.450 --> 00:21:57.390
of unfolded along the way, but the catalyst was,

00:21:57.529 --> 00:22:00.329
you know, I don't have a nest egg. I'm 18 years

00:22:00.329 --> 00:22:05.769
old. I need to make money, move out, and nursing

00:22:05.769 --> 00:22:10.650
was a very, very, very viable career route. So

00:22:10.650 --> 00:22:13.569
that was what led to it, you know, and pretty

00:22:13.569 --> 00:22:15.890
ballsy at the time. You know, St. Francis was

00:22:15.890 --> 00:22:18.750
the school to apply to, and it was the only school

00:22:18.750 --> 00:22:24.509
I applied to. Luckily got in. So, but yeah. And

00:22:24.509 --> 00:22:27.450
then afterwards, you know, that EMS side doesn't

00:22:27.450 --> 00:22:29.809
leave you. Like it's there. I remember working

00:22:29.809 --> 00:22:32.109
in the trauma center at Hartford at St. Francis

00:22:32.109 --> 00:22:36.049
Hospital and just still looking at the medics

00:22:36.049 --> 00:22:40.369
coming and going, I'm here all night. They're

00:22:40.369 --> 00:22:41.910
going to go back. They're going to go, you know,

00:22:41.910 --> 00:22:44.569
it's just a different, I don't regret my nursing

00:22:44.569 --> 00:22:47.109
background at all. And that's why I continued

00:22:47.109 --> 00:22:50.000
and went. you know, paramedicine and was lucky

00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:52.220
enough to combine both of them in flight. And

00:22:52.220 --> 00:22:55.460
that was, that was phenomenal. So what was your

00:22:55.460 --> 00:22:58.160
experience in the trauma side? Because you've,

00:22:58.160 --> 00:23:00.079
like you mentioned, you're from a smaller town.

00:23:00.259 --> 00:23:02.640
Um, you know, we all know that a lot of the bad

00:23:02.640 --> 00:23:04.940
stuff comes to the trauma center and you're exposed

00:23:04.940 --> 00:23:07.339
to a lot more of the dark side of society through

00:23:07.339 --> 00:23:09.920
that, that route as well. So talk to me about

00:23:09.920 --> 00:23:12.670
that experience. Yeah, country mouse gets to

00:23:12.670 --> 00:23:15.750
the city. That's exactly what that was. The only

00:23:15.750 --> 00:23:18.750
time I went to the big trauma centers are if

00:23:18.750 --> 00:23:21.430
I was lucky enough to ride in, you know, as like

00:23:21.430 --> 00:23:23.990
a third party where they're, you know, taking

00:23:23.990 --> 00:23:28.170
someone in. Or I got to fly in one of the helicopters,

00:23:28.430 --> 00:23:30.710
Lifestar, when we had a motorcycle crash, you

00:23:30.710 --> 00:23:34.660
know. But it was just, you know. And it's chaos

00:23:34.660 --> 00:23:36.599
when you go in there and you open your eyes and

00:23:36.599 --> 00:23:38.640
you don't, you know, I'm used to the small little

00:23:38.640 --> 00:23:40.940
hospital where everyone knows everybody. And

00:23:40.940 --> 00:23:46.119
so when I got the job there, it was mind blowing.

00:23:46.559 --> 00:23:51.400
It was mind blowing, not only to see the true

00:23:51.400 --> 00:23:53.819
knife and gun club, if you remember that book

00:23:53.819 --> 00:23:56.200
from way back in the day, like it was, I mean,

00:23:56.200 --> 00:24:00.089
that hospital had 96 guards. two attack dogs

00:24:00.089 --> 00:24:05.450
it had a full -time officer in triage um it had

00:24:05.450 --> 00:24:08.549
gone through several periods where riots happened

00:24:08.549 --> 00:24:12.809
uh or staff members got assaulted you know it

00:24:12.809 --> 00:24:16.430
was it was a time that you know they couldn't

00:24:16.430 --> 00:24:18.230
take the attack dogs into the hospital because

00:24:18.230 --> 00:24:20.789
they can't differentiate staff from perpetrator

00:24:20.789 --> 00:24:23.710
or whatever it was just as weird dirty and i

00:24:23.710 --> 00:24:26.910
worked 9p to 9a it was a horrible shift so you

00:24:26.910 --> 00:24:32.500
saw everything. But a lot of the themes I think

00:24:32.500 --> 00:24:35.359
you have is about mentorship. And I had a phenomenal

00:24:35.359 --> 00:24:38.799
mentor. So I had this nurse, Candy Fusco. She

00:24:38.799 --> 00:24:44.640
was phenomenal. She was just as, I don't know

00:24:44.640 --> 00:24:47.400
how to say it delicately, seasoned. She was seasoned,

00:24:47.500 --> 00:24:51.920
but newer stuff, down cold. And that was my mentor.

00:24:52.640 --> 00:24:54.819
And I remember I started, I'm like, I really

00:24:54.819 --> 00:24:56.980
don't like pediatric patients. You know, it's

00:24:56.980 --> 00:25:00.220
not my strong suit. Every single pediatric patient

00:25:00.220 --> 00:25:02.319
that comes in, Eric gets them. I don't care if

00:25:02.319 --> 00:25:04.880
it's a sniffle sneeze. I don't care if it's multi

00:25:04.880 --> 00:25:07.140
-system trauma. Eric gets every pediatric patient.

00:25:07.400 --> 00:25:10.700
And I did relentlessly until the point where

00:25:10.700 --> 00:25:14.039
I'm like, all right, another kid. Cool. You know,

00:25:14.119 --> 00:25:16.880
I'm okay with pediatric patients now. But she

00:25:16.880 --> 00:25:21.140
could identify where my deficits were from not.

00:25:21.450 --> 00:25:25.690
seeing that side of the world you know and um

00:25:25.690 --> 00:25:29.789
also being you know male nurses are a subset

00:25:29.789 --> 00:25:31.950
of the population of nurses so being the male

00:25:31.950 --> 00:25:34.410
nurse at night granted I'm all a five six on

00:25:34.410 --> 00:25:36.829
a good day I'm not very intimidating but you

00:25:36.829 --> 00:25:40.109
know you're still called when when that happens

00:25:40.109 --> 00:25:43.029
you know um I had two guns pulled on me in that

00:25:43.029 --> 00:25:47.289
emergency department that was uh that was new

00:25:48.089 --> 00:25:51.369
You know, I've never felt so helpless and angry

00:25:51.369 --> 00:25:55.210
at the same time. Like, how dare you take that

00:25:55.210 --> 00:25:58.369
away from me? And I have nothing to do. You know,

00:25:58.390 --> 00:26:00.450
I did break one of the guy's thumbs. I feel a

00:26:00.450 --> 00:26:03.170
little bit bad about that. And it was just out

00:26:03.170 --> 00:26:05.130
of malice because he had a gun in my face and

00:26:05.130 --> 00:26:08.230
that could have ended me. But there was a lot

00:26:08.230 --> 00:26:11.849
of growing up quickly in that particular trauma

00:26:11.849 --> 00:26:16.910
center. The experience was... unparalleled to

00:26:16.910 --> 00:26:21.130
this day it was great but eye -opening i can

00:26:21.130 --> 00:26:24.430
imagine what was the environment like then i

00:26:24.430 --> 00:26:29.230
came into the fire service in uh 2004 into hialeah

00:26:29.230 --> 00:26:31.630
which is basically one of the suburbs of miami

00:26:31.630 --> 00:26:35.509
so again country mouse goes to the city um and

00:26:35.509 --> 00:26:38.890
uh just insane. And you were holding the wall

00:26:38.890 --> 00:26:41.569
for hours and hours and hours. And the irony

00:26:41.569 --> 00:26:43.789
is when COVID happened, people were acting like

00:26:43.789 --> 00:26:45.410
that was a thing that only happened in COVID.

00:26:45.750 --> 00:26:48.589
I'm like, whoa, timeout. Have you listened to

00:26:48.589 --> 00:26:50.430
the people that work in the inner cities, in

00:26:50.430 --> 00:26:53.329
the hospitals? But that was more recently than

00:26:53.329 --> 00:26:56.210
you're talking about. Back then, was that still

00:26:56.210 --> 00:26:59.269
an issue as far as waiting for beds and that

00:26:59.269 --> 00:27:04.339
kind of thing? Yes. Yes. So the commonplace,

00:27:04.400 --> 00:27:07.980
as it is sadly today, is the hall bed. And the

00:27:07.980 --> 00:27:12.160
ongoing – I poke fun at the rivalry, the ICU,

00:27:12.319 --> 00:27:16.619
ED nurse, the thousands of memes that are out

00:27:16.619 --> 00:27:20.640
there. But just because I had a four -bed assignment

00:27:20.640 --> 00:27:23.740
didn't mean I still didn't have five hall beds.

00:27:24.279 --> 00:27:26.859
And if you had the trauma room or the code room.

00:27:27.599 --> 00:27:31.400
So it happened a lot. It was paper charting back

00:27:31.400 --> 00:27:35.759
then, too. We just started to get EHR. So it

00:27:35.759 --> 00:27:40.000
was a whole different world. And the ideology

00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:42.940
that the nurses eat their young, it was very

00:27:42.940 --> 00:27:46.319
true there. You, for lack of a better term, you

00:27:46.319 --> 00:27:50.279
man up or you get out. And the shift that I worked

00:27:50.279 --> 00:27:53.299
and how relentless it was, I remember walking

00:27:53.299 --> 00:27:57.190
in and at 9 p .m. in an inner city on a weekday

00:27:57.190 --> 00:27:59.670
or weeknight doesn't matter it's packed to the

00:27:59.670 --> 00:28:02.309
gills and i remember every shift i walked in

00:28:02.309 --> 00:28:04.690
and someone would invariably look at me you don't

00:28:04.690 --> 00:28:06.829
want to be here you don't want to be here i know

00:28:06.829 --> 00:28:08.789
i don't want to be here but that's not the first

00:28:08.789 --> 00:28:11.130
thing i want to hear when i walk in you know

00:28:11.130 --> 00:28:13.549
except for one nurse mary and she would smile

00:28:13.549 --> 00:28:16.529
and say i'm so glad you're here to help but there's

00:28:16.529 --> 00:28:18.210
always a little ray of sunshine in there somewhere

00:28:18.210 --> 00:28:22.509
but yeah it was still the same jam -packed fighting

00:28:22.509 --> 00:28:28.210
for beds What was the culture back then? You're

00:28:28.210 --> 00:28:31.349
in a profession that is usually more female,

00:28:31.549 --> 00:28:33.930
so you have a little bit of that feminine kind

00:28:33.930 --> 00:28:36.529
of input. When it comes to the mental health

00:28:36.529 --> 00:28:39.130
conversation, was there more empathy back then

00:28:39.130 --> 00:28:41.549
or did it parallel what we saw in first responder

00:28:41.549 --> 00:28:45.910
professions? I think it's a little different.

00:28:46.650 --> 00:28:49.309
I think as a male nurse, the perspective is a

00:28:49.309 --> 00:28:51.509
little bit different, too, because, you know,

00:28:51.509 --> 00:28:55.049
you go in and regardless of the nurse that you

00:28:55.049 --> 00:28:57.190
are, you're new in an environment. They're unsure

00:28:57.190 --> 00:28:59.089
of you. What's your skill set? Are you the gossiper?

00:28:59.250 --> 00:29:01.410
Are you the helper? Are you you know what? Who

00:29:01.410 --> 00:29:04.470
are you? First off, are you competent or are

00:29:04.470 --> 00:29:07.470
you lazy? Or, you know, once they figure that

00:29:07.470 --> 00:29:11.089
out, you know, we had a really, really tight

00:29:11.089 --> 00:29:13.589
knit group in that emergency department that

00:29:13.589 --> 00:29:16.539
worked nights. So. I mean, the commonplace was

00:29:16.539 --> 00:29:21.900
we almost developed this unofficial post -shift

00:29:21.900 --> 00:29:25.019
debrief. We would all go to this diner and we

00:29:25.019 --> 00:29:28.660
would sit down and we would discuss generically

00:29:28.660 --> 00:29:31.779
the night. And it was usually the physician was

00:29:31.779 --> 00:29:36.500
there and the entire nurses. So it was as hard

00:29:36.500 --> 00:29:39.299
as it was, it was very nurturing at the end too.

00:29:39.420 --> 00:29:42.900
So we did a lot of group activities, which today's

00:29:42.900 --> 00:29:45.750
difficult to do with. And I don't know why it's

00:29:45.750 --> 00:29:47.470
so difficult to be honest with you. I just don't

00:29:47.470 --> 00:29:50.890
see it as much. Maybe I'm blinded to it, but

00:29:50.890 --> 00:29:52.930
it was like, it was a, that was your family.

00:29:53.049 --> 00:29:55.089
It's like you're, you're on shift for 24 hours

00:29:55.089 --> 00:29:57.710
in a fire department. That's your family or your

00:29:57.710 --> 00:30:00.190
helicopter or whatever, you know, and this, it

00:30:00.190 --> 00:30:02.250
was, it was like having an extended family and

00:30:02.250 --> 00:30:04.170
then we would do weekend events together and

00:30:04.170 --> 00:30:06.789
support each other. So yeah, it was very supportive.

00:30:07.470 --> 00:30:10.529
It was very supportive right up into the time

00:30:10.529 --> 00:30:14.059
I said, I'm going travel nursing. And then it

00:30:14.059 --> 00:30:18.880
was like cold steel. Is that heresy in the world

00:30:18.880 --> 00:30:22.579
of nursing then? I guess so. Yeah, there was

00:30:22.579 --> 00:30:24.900
a lot of resentment when I said I was leaving.

00:30:27.319 --> 00:30:29.099
Kind of moving forward a little bit. Have you

00:30:29.099 --> 00:30:32.960
seen the show on HBO Max, The Pit? It's come

00:30:32.960 --> 00:30:37.190
out. Yes. Yes. Talk to me about it. I mean, I

00:30:37.190 --> 00:30:39.829
think it's phenomenal. I think technically it's

00:30:39.829 --> 00:30:41.589
been great and it's certainly brought a lot of

00:30:41.589 --> 00:30:44.029
the issues to the front. But what's your perspective

00:30:44.029 --> 00:30:48.890
of it? It is the most true to life show out there.

00:30:49.329 --> 00:30:52.230
Down to the procedures, the thought processes

00:30:52.230 --> 00:30:55.859
behind them. Granted. My wife doesn't necessarily

00:30:55.859 --> 00:30:58.799
like. I'm sure like you, you're probably like,

00:30:58.880 --> 00:31:00.000
okay, well, they're going to do this. They should

00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:02.799
do that. Why are they putting him on iPad? He's

00:31:02.799 --> 00:31:09.140
going to have a pneumo. But the light on the

00:31:09.140 --> 00:31:11.460
behind -the -scenes stuff, the administration,

00:31:11.819 --> 00:31:14.880
the push for press gaming scores, the violence

00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:19.759
that's so prevalent yet so overlooked, it's spot

00:31:19.759 --> 00:31:24.839
on. And that show taking place now. it's like

00:31:24.839 --> 00:31:29.160
i'm back at work at saint francis in 1997 it's

00:31:29.160 --> 00:31:34.180
it hasn't changed sadly yeah this is this is

00:31:34.180 --> 00:31:36.359
i just did a video today um i think we're talking

00:31:36.359 --> 00:31:38.680
about before we record and it was on cowardice

00:31:38.680 --> 00:31:41.339
and you know how and i'll put it on our generation

00:31:41.339 --> 00:31:45.039
we've just kind of rolled over when it comes

00:31:45.039 --> 00:31:47.119
to all the things that need to be fixed that

00:31:47.119 --> 00:31:50.799
haven't Whether it is simply courage in a fire

00:31:50.799 --> 00:31:53.079
department to change the work week so our men

00:31:53.079 --> 00:31:55.740
and women stop dropping like flies, or whether

00:31:55.740 --> 00:31:57.339
it's having the courage to stand in the middle

00:31:57.339 --> 00:31:59.680
and say, hey, during COVID, obesity was kind

00:31:59.680 --> 00:32:01.779
of a big contributing factor. Are we going to

00:32:01.779 --> 00:32:05.799
address the national obesity crisis? But yeah,

00:32:05.940 --> 00:32:08.680
but the fact that as you're talking about now

00:32:08.680 --> 00:32:10.839
and in the fire service, the mandatory overtime,

00:32:11.119 --> 00:32:12.859
when I worked at Orange County, I was hit with

00:32:12.859 --> 00:32:14.740
it all the time. That was almost 20 years ago.

00:32:15.339 --> 00:32:17.599
So this is you know, these are powerful perspectives

00:32:17.599 --> 00:32:20.420
now. And the pit did such a great job of showing

00:32:20.420 --> 00:32:22.079
that and even touching on the Freedom House,

00:32:22.240 --> 00:32:24.920
the original paramedic out of Pittsburgh that

00:32:24.920 --> 00:32:26.920
were African -American. That was great. Yeah.

00:32:27.059 --> 00:32:29.279
So, you know, I think it's phenomenal. And this

00:32:29.279 --> 00:32:31.220
is why I'm going to make kinder into a show,

00:32:31.319 --> 00:32:33.460
because now it's like, all right, well, who are

00:32:33.460 --> 00:32:34.799
these people that are bringing these patients

00:32:34.799 --> 00:32:37.079
in? Let's go into their world now, you know,

00:32:37.079 --> 00:32:39.180
and then expand because they touched on the mental

00:32:39.180 --> 00:32:42.119
health a little bit. but a very, very superficially.

00:32:42.140 --> 00:32:44.279
So I feel like now we're beautiful. Let's take,

00:32:44.319 --> 00:32:46.640
you know, jump in with both feet and talk about

00:32:46.640 --> 00:32:48.759
the mental health side in all these professions,

00:32:48.940 --> 00:32:52.500
including doctors and nurses. So I guess in feeding

00:32:52.500 --> 00:32:54.579
on that, let's talk about that one episode briefly

00:32:54.579 --> 00:32:58.119
where, you know, the charge nurse, she gets physically

00:32:58.119 --> 00:33:04.279
assaulted. And I guess what I was hoping to see

00:33:04.279 --> 00:33:07.960
out of that was, yes, it was addressed. You need

00:33:07.960 --> 00:33:10.539
to go home, but then. She just picks up and keeps

00:33:10.539 --> 00:33:14.220
on working like nothing happened. And I guess

00:33:14.220 --> 00:33:16.380
I look at that from two different viewpoints

00:33:16.380 --> 00:33:20.539
is, okay, yep, I got it. The duty, the job's

00:33:20.539 --> 00:33:22.460
there. The patient is just still coming in. And

00:33:22.460 --> 00:33:23.880
then you have this horrific mass casualty. Take

00:33:23.880 --> 00:33:28.140
that out of it. But there was a – I don't think

00:33:28.140 --> 00:33:31.099
there was more enough to say, look, let's talk

00:33:31.099 --> 00:33:34.400
for a second. let's you're exactly right like

00:33:34.400 --> 00:33:37.180
that could be a whole episode of itself of how

00:33:37.180 --> 00:33:39.420
do we deal with that is it right to stay is it

00:33:39.420 --> 00:33:43.039
wrong to stay you know there's that oh that that

00:33:43.039 --> 00:33:45.319
was an interesting what was your take on that

00:33:45.319 --> 00:33:47.640
yeah i mean the thing and also like you said

00:33:47.640 --> 00:33:49.960
the takeaway is like oh you should just suck

00:33:49.960 --> 00:33:52.829
it up and stay at the er rather than no no no

00:33:52.829 --> 00:33:55.569
this guy needs to be hunted down right now she

00:33:55.569 --> 00:33:57.930
would do a police report if she had the injuries

00:33:57.930 --> 00:34:00.329
they suggested she had she physically would not

00:34:00.329 --> 00:34:02.289
be able to carry on with the shifts you know

00:34:02.289 --> 00:34:03.789
so there was that and of course it's you know

00:34:03.789 --> 00:34:06.690
it's uh what they call it um poetic license in

00:34:06.690 --> 00:34:08.889
the same way as they're relaying all the procedures

00:34:08.889 --> 00:34:11.949
they're about to do i i get that but at the end

00:34:11.949 --> 00:34:13.389
it was like oh i've got a counselor you should

00:34:13.389 --> 00:34:15.670
talk to him oh okay open spear right now it's

00:34:15.670 --> 00:34:17.699
like okay we can we can definitely build on that,

00:34:17.739 --> 00:34:19.960
but you didn't need to go there in that show.

00:34:20.059 --> 00:34:23.599
That show was such a great, you know, entry to

00:34:23.599 --> 00:34:26.340
all these other conversations now. So I thought

00:34:26.340 --> 00:34:28.079
it was absolutely phenomenal. And then technically,

00:34:28.199 --> 00:34:30.699
like you said, I was actually like, Oh, okay.

00:34:30.760 --> 00:34:32.360
I got that right. Cause you know, like you, you

00:34:32.360 --> 00:34:33.860
know, you were saying, Oh, you shouldn't do that.

00:34:33.900 --> 00:34:36.400
It's going to cause this. And then I turned to

00:34:36.400 --> 00:34:38.159
my wife all proud and she doesn't give a shit,

00:34:38.199 --> 00:34:44.199
but, but I called it. That was cool. So, yeah,

00:34:44.320 --> 00:34:46.769
I guess when you look at a show, Let me ask your

00:34:46.769 --> 00:34:49.489
advice on this. So if you have a show that's

00:34:49.489 --> 00:34:52.429
so true to life, there are some inaccuracies,

00:34:52.429 --> 00:34:57.530
and they do have post -cut, you know, talks with

00:34:57.530 --> 00:35:01.010
the actors. Do you think it would behoove producers

00:35:01.010 --> 00:35:04.210
of a show like that to say, look, here's a real

00:35:04.210 --> 00:35:06.409
ER doc and a real ER nurse that work in a situation

00:35:06.409 --> 00:35:08.969
like that. What's your perspective on this show?

00:35:09.130 --> 00:35:11.050
And they can say, this is right, this is great,

00:35:11.110 --> 00:35:14.039
but... you know, realistically, this probably

00:35:14.039 --> 00:35:16.840
should happen. You know, I don't know. Does it

00:35:16.840 --> 00:35:20.579
detract from the sensationalization or do you

00:35:20.579 --> 00:35:22.960
pepper in reality? So that's what I'm hoping

00:35:22.960 --> 00:35:25.539
to do with Kinder, is there will be two things.

00:35:25.679 --> 00:35:27.619
There'll be the actual story and then there'll

00:35:27.619 --> 00:35:29.699
be something parallel that will have real people.

00:35:29.840 --> 00:35:32.039
So it goes, you know, you get pulled in like,

00:35:32.119 --> 00:35:34.159
hey, that wasn't fiction, what you were watching.

00:35:34.519 --> 00:35:36.500
But here's real people and it's, you know, it's

00:35:36.500 --> 00:35:39.179
more raw and it's infusing hope in all these

00:35:39.179 --> 00:35:41.400
issues that we brought up. you know, overcoming

00:35:41.400 --> 00:35:44.860
obesity and addiction and all these other areas.

00:35:44.900 --> 00:35:47.099
Like here are people struggling. Here are solutions.

00:35:47.380 --> 00:35:49.699
Here's where they're doing now. So I think, yeah,

00:35:49.739 --> 00:35:52.880
there's an amazing opportunity to blend. Like

00:35:52.880 --> 00:35:55.820
some of these behind the scenes documentaries

00:35:55.820 --> 00:35:57.820
are amazing. Like The Fall Guy. Have you ever

00:35:57.820 --> 00:36:00.539
watched that with the stunts? awesome great great

00:36:00.539 --> 00:36:03.480
documentary and it's like oh now i really appreciate

00:36:03.480 --> 00:36:05.539
the stunts that i saw because now i understand

00:36:05.539 --> 00:36:08.440
what it took to to do them whilst they went through

00:36:08.440 --> 00:36:11.900
covid by the way yeah yeah so so yeah so i think

00:36:11.900 --> 00:36:13.659
that's it is if you can blend the two together

00:36:13.659 --> 00:36:15.940
whatever your storytelling is if there can be

00:36:15.940 --> 00:36:18.800
a kind of all right now that was you know that

00:36:18.800 --> 00:36:21.099
was the story but let's talk exactly let's talk

00:36:21.099 --> 00:36:23.420
to the real people you know then i think that

00:36:23.420 --> 00:36:25.239
it really pulls people in even more and then

00:36:25.239 --> 00:36:27.739
it it stops them from just going okay that was

00:36:27.739 --> 00:36:30.449
fun That was a fictional journey. Now let me

00:36:30.449 --> 00:36:31.869
get on with my life. It's like, oh, no, no, no.

00:36:31.949 --> 00:36:34.369
It's the hospital down the road that you're hoping

00:36:34.369 --> 00:36:37.530
the bed is open when you have a stroke. That

00:36:37.530 --> 00:36:39.349
is what that's going to be like. And you might

00:36:39.349 --> 00:36:41.070
be sitting in the hallway with a medic for two

00:36:41.070 --> 00:36:44.809
hours. Yeah. I guess that's why I do miss the

00:36:44.809 --> 00:36:46.949
show Trauma Life in the ER because when that

00:36:46.949 --> 00:36:49.550
came out back in the day, I remember the first

00:36:49.550 --> 00:36:52.030
episode that I watched, I was working night shift

00:36:52.030 --> 00:36:55.349
in the trauma center. And I felt exhausted after

00:36:55.349 --> 00:36:58.280
watching the episode. I'm like. you know his

00:36:58.280 --> 00:37:00.360
pager goes off again and you know you've ran

00:37:00.360 --> 00:37:02.699
shifts like that where you just get okay all

00:37:02.699 --> 00:37:07.480
the paperwork's done i'm all in bed back again

00:37:07.480 --> 00:37:10.099
it just you know it's that one more it's that

00:37:10.099 --> 00:37:14.059
one more um yeah it where it showed the kind

00:37:14.059 --> 00:37:16.480
of raw element so great job with you coming up

00:37:16.480 --> 00:37:18.719
with that i think it'll be great yeah well hopefully

00:37:18.719 --> 00:37:21.179
um all right well you talked about announcing

00:37:21.179 --> 00:37:24.219
to to your fellow nurses that you were going

00:37:24.219 --> 00:37:26.559
to start traveling and that was you know you're

00:37:26.559 --> 00:37:28.599
out of the tribe by that point so where did that

00:37:28.599 --> 00:37:32.159
adventure take you so it all started with you

00:37:32.159 --> 00:37:34.780
know the typical words I met a girl so she was

00:37:34.780 --> 00:37:39.280
a travel nurse and my wife now Sharon but she

00:37:39.280 --> 00:37:42.510
was in She's working in one of the units and

00:37:42.510 --> 00:37:43.949
she had a friend in the emergency department

00:37:43.949 --> 00:37:46.730
that was a travel nurse also. So we were introduced

00:37:46.730 --> 00:37:48.789
a couple of times. And every time she came in

00:37:48.789 --> 00:37:50.869
to see me, we were like, had a fresh trauma coming

00:37:50.869 --> 00:37:52.989
in. So I'm gloved, I'm gowned, I'm masked, I'm

00:37:52.989 --> 00:37:55.210
ready for it. I'm like, hey, you know, I don't,

00:37:55.210 --> 00:37:58.429
hi, it's not, I didn't, it wasn't the right time.

00:37:58.789 --> 00:38:01.110
But she perceived it as, this guy's just a dick.

00:38:01.190 --> 00:38:03.090
You know, every time I come down, it's this brush

00:38:03.090 --> 00:38:06.110
off wave. Who are you trying to? And then one

00:38:06.110 --> 00:38:09.389
night we went out and just hit it off and, you

00:38:09.389 --> 00:38:15.280
know. I just I was young. I was 23, 22. I just

00:38:15.280 --> 00:38:19.000
built a house. I was living in that. And then

00:38:19.000 --> 00:38:21.980
she's Canadian. So she's like, let's go travel.

00:38:22.079 --> 00:38:24.940
I'm like, let's go travel. And that was a huge

00:38:24.940 --> 00:38:26.900
step for me because I never left Connecticut.

00:38:27.059 --> 00:38:30.800
You know, like I my family was there. It was

00:38:30.800 --> 00:38:33.659
almost like you don't leave your family. You

00:38:33.659 --> 00:38:36.239
know, I was making good money as a nurse. I was

00:38:36.239 --> 00:38:40.840
supporting my parents a lot. so when i left it

00:38:40.840 --> 00:38:44.599
it created a ripple effect not only at work with

00:38:44.599 --> 00:38:47.079
you know with the tribe so to speak once they

00:38:47.079 --> 00:38:49.059
found that i was leaving it it was you're dead

00:38:49.059 --> 00:38:51.159
to me you you know all for a girl you're gonna

00:38:51.159 --> 00:38:54.400
regret it yeah but my family took it hard because

00:38:54.400 --> 00:39:01.239
the meal ticket was lead um which It's just a

00:39:01.239 --> 00:39:03.079
whole other story on that one. But, you know,

00:39:03.079 --> 00:39:06.400
so my wife, my now wife and I went and just did

00:39:06.400 --> 00:39:08.739
travel assignments. I remember the first travel

00:39:08.739 --> 00:39:10.880
assignment we did was at Pocono Medical Center

00:39:10.880 --> 00:39:14.099
in the Poconos in Pennsylvania, East Stroudsburg.

00:39:14.360 --> 00:39:16.960
And if you've ever been there, it was the old,

00:39:17.000 --> 00:39:19.440
you know, that's a fun in the sun in the Poconos.

00:39:19.599 --> 00:39:22.579
And it was the honeymoon place. It was different

00:39:22.579 --> 00:39:25.940
back then. Small emergency department. And I

00:39:25.940 --> 00:39:28.500
remember I was shitting bricks. And my wife.

00:39:28.889 --> 00:39:30.190
Back then, she's looking, she's like, what the

00:39:30.190 --> 00:39:32.570
fuck are you doing? Like, I'm studying. I got

00:39:32.570 --> 00:39:34.050
all my books over. I'm like, I got to be on my

00:39:34.050 --> 00:39:36.389
head game. I mean, you know, I'm leaving St.

00:39:36.510 --> 00:39:38.110
Francis. I don't know these people. They don't

00:39:38.110 --> 00:39:43.949
know me. And it takes such an anxiety on me that

00:39:43.949 --> 00:39:46.349
I would underperform at this emergency department

00:39:46.349 --> 00:39:49.150
that I didn't know anybody at. And she's like,

00:39:49.230 --> 00:39:51.929
stop. And then it hit me. I'm sitting there one

00:39:51.929 --> 00:39:54.570
night and I'm going, well, let's wait a minute.

00:39:54.690 --> 00:39:57.130
So if somebody comes in with CHF. I'm going to

00:39:57.130 --> 00:40:00.150
do X, Y, and Z at St. Francis. Somebody comes

00:40:00.150 --> 00:40:03.829
in with CHF. I'm going to do X, Y, and Z in the

00:40:03.829 --> 00:40:08.610
Poconos. Okay. Okay. I'm doing it to myself.

00:40:09.949 --> 00:40:13.190
But then I realized too, and you've probably

00:40:13.190 --> 00:40:15.130
seen this from different fire departments, different

00:40:15.130 --> 00:40:17.369
agencies, emergency departments. So I get to

00:40:17.369 --> 00:40:20.590
this department and like everyone's the same.

00:40:20.730 --> 00:40:22.369
There's the same personality with a different

00:40:22.369 --> 00:40:26.090
name and face. Oh, you're candy. Oh, you're joking.

00:40:26.309 --> 00:40:29.170
Okay, I get it. There's the dynamics. I got it

00:40:29.170 --> 00:40:32.230
now. Let's go on our way. And then we traveled

00:40:32.230 --> 00:40:35.130
for two and a half years and got to Las Vegas.

00:40:35.389 --> 00:40:37.230
She wanted to get married in Vegas. I wanted

00:40:37.230 --> 00:40:39.590
to get married in Vegas. We said, let's do a

00:40:39.590 --> 00:40:41.989
travel assignment out there, and we'll just invite

00:40:41.989 --> 00:40:44.150
a small group of family and friends, come, have

00:40:44.150 --> 00:40:48.449
a big party in Vegas, no gifts, and then we'll

00:40:48.449 --> 00:40:52.239
have a great time. Travel nurse in an emergency

00:40:52.239 --> 00:40:55.780
department there, Sunrise Hospital. The flight

00:40:55.780 --> 00:41:00.639
crew came in and I had a stroke patient, had

00:41:00.639 --> 00:41:03.219
a lateral uncle hemorrhage. And I'm giving the

00:41:03.219 --> 00:41:04.719
assessment. I'm doing a Babinski and saying,

00:41:04.760 --> 00:41:06.420
I can see it's a right, you know, uncle hemorrhage

00:41:06.420 --> 00:41:07.719
there. You can see this, this, blah, blah, blah.

00:41:07.800 --> 00:41:10.239
And the flight nurse went back to her boss and

00:41:10.239 --> 00:41:14.460
said, you need to call this guy. Back then, that's

00:41:14.460 --> 00:41:17.119
how it worked. And a bulk of the flight programs

00:41:17.119 --> 00:41:20.420
is you either recruited from in or you saw them

00:41:20.420 --> 00:41:23.480
in the emergency departments. And then that's

00:41:23.480 --> 00:41:25.980
how two kids, two dogs, and five years later,

00:41:26.039 --> 00:41:30.480
we were in Vegas. So talk to me about that transition

00:41:30.480 --> 00:41:33.159
then. I mean, the role of a flight nurse now

00:41:33.159 --> 00:41:35.260
very, very different than an ER with all the

00:41:35.260 --> 00:41:38.760
experts and equipment around you. It was amazing.

00:41:39.340 --> 00:41:41.900
It was amazing, again, to go back to mentorship.

00:41:42.460 --> 00:41:46.099
So the program director was Dave Eshay, and she

00:41:46.099 --> 00:41:48.199
was one of the founders of Colorado's Flight

00:41:48.199 --> 00:41:51.519
for Life program. She was the OG flight nurse

00:41:51.519 --> 00:41:54.719
back in the day. And she used to always say,

00:41:54.800 --> 00:41:56.500
you know, I haven't been on a helicopter in years,

00:41:56.559 --> 00:41:58.179
but, you know, you give me enough morphine and

00:41:58.179 --> 00:42:01.539
value, I can intubate anybody. Is that for her

00:42:01.539 --> 00:42:06.829
or the patient? A little of each. But they put

00:42:06.829 --> 00:42:10.429
us through a residency program, which was really

00:42:10.429 --> 00:42:12.429
phenomenal. So they had a ground critical care

00:42:12.429 --> 00:42:15.210
transport program and the flight program that

00:42:15.210 --> 00:42:17.429
were kind of separate. So the ground critical

00:42:17.429 --> 00:42:21.630
care worked for AMR. So you did the critical

00:42:21.630 --> 00:42:24.489
care transport, but when you were not doing a

00:42:24.489 --> 00:42:27.010
CCT transport, you were thrown into the 911 system.

00:42:27.210 --> 00:42:29.170
So you're doing 911 calls and you're, you know.

00:42:29.849 --> 00:42:31.909
But you got to operate at the level of a flight

00:42:31.909 --> 00:42:34.210
nurse. So you can do chest tubes and central

00:42:34.210 --> 00:42:37.130
lines and all this stuff. But even before you

00:42:37.130 --> 00:42:39.469
got on there, we went through months and months

00:42:39.469 --> 00:42:42.429
of this residency under the medical direction

00:42:42.429 --> 00:42:46.329
and the tutelage of Dr. Tom Zinowitz. So Tom

00:42:46.329 --> 00:42:50.010
Zinowitz was awesome. He was like this big bully

00:42:50.010 --> 00:42:53.269
from high school that was smart. So he went to

00:42:53.269 --> 00:42:55.849
med school, but he still just kind of thought,

00:42:55.969 --> 00:43:00.900
knew his shit. But he was awesome. He was so

00:43:00.900 --> 00:43:04.480
in favor of raising the bar on nursing standards.

00:43:04.679 --> 00:43:07.619
So he picked the physicians we would go to. When

00:43:07.619 --> 00:43:10.619
we were in the hospital, we as the crew members

00:43:10.619 --> 00:43:13.119
would do every central line, every intubation,

00:43:13.320 --> 00:43:16.280
every chest tube, anything invasive, we did.

00:43:16.539 --> 00:43:20.639
We had to catalog those every month. And if you

00:43:20.639 --> 00:43:22.780
couldn't get them, again, this doesn't exist

00:43:22.780 --> 00:43:24.840
in the world, and I'm not sure if it was quite

00:43:24.840 --> 00:43:27.869
legal back then. the uh the corner was right

00:43:27.869 --> 00:43:29.829
across the street so we had this little tackle

00:43:29.829 --> 00:43:32.010
box and we go over there we had this relationship

00:43:32.010 --> 00:43:35.210
with them the medical examiners would teach us

00:43:35.210 --> 00:43:38.710
you know anatomy in theirs but in reciprocation

00:43:38.710 --> 00:43:41.730
we would be able to do all these invasive procedures

00:43:41.730 --> 00:43:47.590
in in the backhand of that of getting them blood

00:43:47.590 --> 00:43:50.789
samples from the central lines and whatever so

00:43:51.420 --> 00:43:54.039
We have a phenomenal amount of experience that

00:43:54.039 --> 00:43:57.639
hands -on, that repetitive motion of being able

00:43:57.639 --> 00:43:59.659
to do a chest tube in the dark, you know, the

00:43:59.659 --> 00:44:02.280
minimal equipment that you need and practicing

00:44:02.280 --> 00:44:05.659
all those skills. And then when you're in the

00:44:05.659 --> 00:44:07.559
hospital, you're doing your trauma rotations

00:44:07.559 --> 00:44:10.519
with the trauma surgeon, the OB, like everything

00:44:10.519 --> 00:44:13.659
was just months and months and months of that

00:44:13.659 --> 00:44:17.179
before they said, okay, you're ready. Then they

00:44:17.179 --> 00:44:18.940
threw you on the ground. Then they threw you

00:44:18.940 --> 00:44:23.219
in the helicopter. and it was it was awesome

00:44:23.219 --> 00:44:27.559
i mean you know a good year of my life i sat

00:44:27.559 --> 00:44:32.139
up you know in that bunker at night going i gotta

00:44:32.139 --> 00:44:33.679
be ready for the call gotta be ready for the

00:44:33.679 --> 00:44:35.920
call and then there's that old mantra that's

00:44:35.920 --> 00:44:38.480
echoing in the back it's it's not your emergency

00:44:38.480 --> 00:44:40.380
it's their emergency that you're going to be

00:44:40.380 --> 00:44:45.019
part of and help but that transition was um was

00:44:45.019 --> 00:44:48.980
it was awe -inspiringly overwhelming so i think

00:44:48.980 --> 00:44:51.659
the uh la chief got that little mixed up when

00:44:51.659 --> 00:44:53.940
she was saying was it's his fault getting himself

00:44:53.940 --> 00:44:56.840
in the fire i think she she misquoted that a

00:44:56.840 --> 00:44:58.780
little bit but you're right if you have to think

00:44:58.780 --> 00:45:00.380
of it that way you know you're there to help

00:45:00.380 --> 00:45:02.840
in an emergency you can't get consumed by the

00:45:02.840 --> 00:45:06.739
fact that it is one yeah and that was a tough

00:45:06.739 --> 00:45:12.210
pill to swallow um but then you know Talking

00:45:12.210 --> 00:45:14.250
to the flight crews out there, and especially

00:45:14.250 --> 00:45:17.230
now when we transition, I remember we had a new

00:45:17.230 --> 00:45:19.349
flight nurse in Tampa. We'll get there. But,

00:45:19.409 --> 00:45:21.469
you know, it was a couple of weeks in and I said,

00:45:21.550 --> 00:45:22.730
well, let's go over some scenarios. She goes,

00:45:22.789 --> 00:45:26.329
I've been doing this for two weeks now. I'm sorry,

00:45:26.429 --> 00:45:29.750
professor. You know, that was the mindset. Like,

00:45:29.769 --> 00:45:32.030
I've been doing this for two weeks now. Like,

00:45:32.050 --> 00:45:35.409
it should be a good year before you feel comfortable

00:45:35.409 --> 00:45:40.829
with that amount of. our for good and evil when

00:45:40.829 --> 00:45:44.090
you give this advanced scope to somebody so but

00:45:44.090 --> 00:45:46.869
yeah what was some of the career calls you remember

00:45:46.869 --> 00:45:52.530
in that role in las vegas which is just in the

00:45:52.530 --> 00:45:57.949
flight program full stop oh i mean so there's

00:45:57.949 --> 00:46:01.150
there's the calls that people want to hear when

00:46:01.150 --> 00:46:03.070
they ask you tell me about your calls you know

00:46:03.070 --> 00:46:08.699
i think um one of the most horrific scenes actually

00:46:08.699 --> 00:46:11.860
how do you how do you quantify horrific so one

00:46:11.860 --> 00:46:14.719
of them was uh this woman was wrapped in a towel

00:46:14.719 --> 00:46:18.059
a blanket poured a gasoline lit on fire by her

00:46:18.059 --> 00:46:20.519
boyfriend and kicked in the front lawn and we

00:46:20.519 --> 00:46:23.820
land on scene and she's still smoldering and

00:46:23.820 --> 00:46:26.380
she's third degree she's she's full thickness

00:46:26.380 --> 00:46:29.619
burn head to toe her fingers are burned off her

00:46:29.619 --> 00:46:32.679
toes are burned off she's just full eschar on

00:46:32.679 --> 00:46:35.739
her face she needs an airway she needs access

00:46:35.739 --> 00:46:39.940
she needs medication and she's just sitting there

00:46:39.940 --> 00:46:47.179
and i put in a subclavian line and We were orienting

00:46:47.179 --> 00:46:49.500
a new medic and he needs to get the airway. And

00:46:49.500 --> 00:46:51.559
as he's getting that prep and I got the line

00:46:51.559 --> 00:46:56.460
and she's just going kill me, kill me just over

00:46:56.460 --> 00:46:59.739
and over. And these are one of those calls. I

00:46:59.739 --> 00:47:03.239
use it for an ethics call course that I'll talk

00:47:03.239 --> 00:47:06.400
about. So I can't feel a pulse. I can't get a

00:47:06.400 --> 00:47:09.039
blood pressure. I got a subclavian line in and

00:47:09.039 --> 00:47:12.179
I empty every narcotic and benzo that I have.

00:47:13.099 --> 00:47:15.460
Right or wrong? Don't know. Got an airway. Was

00:47:15.460 --> 00:47:17.760
she breathing? Don't know. She's paralyzed. And

00:47:17.760 --> 00:47:22.400
I gave her everything. So I always put that question

00:47:22.400 --> 00:47:26.219
back on whoever I'm talking to. Is that the right

00:47:26.219 --> 00:47:28.699
thing to do or the wrong thing to do? Is there

00:47:28.699 --> 00:47:31.800
a right or wrong in that? And how do I defend

00:47:31.800 --> 00:47:34.719
that when my medical director asks? Or how the

00:47:34.719 --> 00:47:38.940
family asks? So that's one of the most horrific

00:47:38.940 --> 00:47:41.679
calls because it blurs the lines of not only

00:47:41.679 --> 00:47:45.469
technical ability. How do you process someone

00:47:45.469 --> 00:47:48.170
begging you to die, but you want to make them

00:47:48.170 --> 00:47:49.809
as comfortable as possible, knowing no matter

00:47:49.809 --> 00:47:52.969
what you do, kind of like that pit call with

00:47:52.969 --> 00:47:55.610
that burn patient, you're going to die. Like,

00:47:55.610 --> 00:47:58.130
this is 100 % burn. I'm going to make them as

00:47:58.130 --> 00:48:02.070
comfortable as possible. So that one stands out.

00:48:02.769 --> 00:48:06.449
I had a very similar call. It was the same day.

00:48:06.510 --> 00:48:09.539
I had three deaths that day, the third one. I

00:48:09.539 --> 00:48:11.980
don't know if it was a suicide attempt, arson

00:48:11.980 --> 00:48:15.619
gone wrong, but there was a fully involved house,

00:48:15.760 --> 00:48:18.820
a young man came running out, still on fire.

00:48:19.639 --> 00:48:23.059
The first unit that got there, they actually

00:48:23.059 --> 00:48:24.639
put the guy, actually, I think it was a neighbor,

00:48:24.699 --> 00:48:27.519
put him out with a hose. The first medic that

00:48:27.519 --> 00:48:29.639
got there, he was leaning, steaming against a

00:48:29.639 --> 00:48:32.300
chain link fence. And I actually heard on the

00:48:32.300 --> 00:48:35.079
radio him asking for help. So rather than go

00:48:35.079 --> 00:48:37.519
to the fire itself, we went around the back and

00:48:37.519 --> 00:48:40.420
met the other medic. And, you know, end up doing

00:48:40.420 --> 00:48:42.139
a standing takedown on the backboard, getting

00:48:42.139 --> 00:48:45.380
him over this fence. I jumped in the back with

00:48:45.380 --> 00:48:47.860
the other medic and off we went. And the trauma

00:48:47.860 --> 00:48:50.880
center was literally not even 10 minutes around

00:48:50.880 --> 00:48:54.260
the corner. And so I'm ready to intubate and

00:48:54.260 --> 00:48:56.559
we don't do RSI or didn't in that county. So,

00:48:56.559 --> 00:49:00.659
you know, assuming that he's out and my partner

00:49:00.659 --> 00:49:03.019
almost out of habit, you know, like we always

00:49:03.019 --> 00:49:04.960
do. So, you know, what's your name? And the guy

00:49:04.960 --> 00:49:07.599
replied as clear as day. And I just to reiterate.

00:49:08.199 --> 00:49:11.860
His nose was gone. His tongue was gone. Fingers,

00:49:11.860 --> 00:49:15.639
genitalia, like three third degree burns from

00:49:15.639 --> 00:49:17.739
head to toe. Just the soles of his feet weren't

00:49:17.739 --> 00:49:20.280
because that's what he was standing on and spoke

00:49:20.280 --> 00:49:23.440
to me clear as day. And you talk about helpless.

00:49:23.679 --> 00:49:26.940
You got a guy that burned. All I can do, and

00:49:26.940 --> 00:49:29.719
I think we put an IO in the end, but all you

00:49:29.719 --> 00:49:32.800
can do is put a burn sheet over him and a non

00:49:32.800 --> 00:49:34.659
-rebreather because he's talking to me and I

00:49:34.659 --> 00:49:38.880
can't do RSI. But I've never seen an example,

00:49:39.019 --> 00:49:42.239
and I wrote about this in my first book, I've

00:49:42.239 --> 00:49:46.000
never seen a more powerful example of when, if

00:49:46.000 --> 00:49:47.980
people believe in the soul, when the body is

00:49:47.980 --> 00:49:51.159
dead and the soul doesn't realize it. So we wheel

00:49:51.159 --> 00:49:53.980
him into the ER, and you can imagine the looks

00:49:53.980 --> 00:49:55.400
when we've got this burn patient with a normal

00:49:55.400 --> 00:49:57.300
breather, like, what the fuck are these people

00:49:57.300 --> 00:50:01.099
doing? And I'm like, ask him something. And he

00:50:01.099 --> 00:50:03.059
said the same thing, clear as we're talking now,

00:50:03.239 --> 00:50:06.510
and just everyone's jaw dropped. And, you know,

00:50:06.510 --> 00:50:09.210
the poor guy passed about an hour later, but

00:50:09.210 --> 00:50:11.289
it's that, that feeling of helplessness, you

00:50:11.289 --> 00:50:13.949
know, what, what can we do? And I think we, we

00:50:13.949 --> 00:50:15.809
definitely, you know, got an IO. I believe that

00:50:15.809 --> 00:50:18.750
we pushed, um, I don't know if we even pushed,

00:50:18.750 --> 00:50:20.630
pushed, uh, painkillers because I don't think

00:50:20.630 --> 00:50:22.809
we're even able to get a, a, um, a pressure on

00:50:22.809 --> 00:50:24.989
them, you know? So it was just one of those things

00:50:24.989 --> 00:50:26.769
where like, all right, let's just get, get them

00:50:26.769 --> 00:50:28.409
to the hospital where they can do, you know,

00:50:28.429 --> 00:50:30.250
an internal one and they can make the right decision.

00:50:30.269 --> 00:50:32.829
And we don't kill this guy, you know, even more

00:50:32.829 --> 00:50:34.730
than he's gonna, he's gonna pass away. But it

00:50:34.730 --> 00:50:37.119
is, it's. Absolutely. You know, it's the same

00:50:37.119 --> 00:50:39.420
with those cancer patients or the 90 whatever's

00:50:39.420 --> 00:50:40.760
that you're working and you're crushing their

00:50:40.760 --> 00:50:43.500
ribs. Like, should we be doing this? Where is

00:50:43.500 --> 00:50:46.280
that line between all the booklets says this

00:50:46.280 --> 00:50:50.099
and the actual compassionate, empathetic human

00:50:50.099 --> 00:50:52.739
being says, actually, we should probably do that.

00:50:53.380 --> 00:50:58.380
Yeah. Yeah. Tom Zinowitz, that medical director,

00:50:58.579 --> 00:51:02.300
he was always very supportive. And he again,

00:51:02.400 --> 00:51:05.650
it's what always stuck in my head is. He's like,

00:51:05.730 --> 00:51:07.849
I don't care what you do. You better be right.

00:51:08.030 --> 00:51:10.090
But more importantly, whatever your actions are,

00:51:10.170 --> 00:51:12.650
you have to be able to explain that to the family.

00:51:13.349 --> 00:51:15.969
And if I can explain that to the family, then

00:51:15.969 --> 00:51:19.150
I know I did the right thing. And that's, I think,

00:51:19.250 --> 00:51:22.289
those are the conversations that need to be mentored

00:51:22.289 --> 00:51:25.969
for new people getting into this industry, regardless

00:51:25.969 --> 00:51:28.210
of what it is, is exactly what you said. How

00:51:28.210 --> 00:51:31.190
long ago was that burn call for you? That was

00:51:31.190 --> 00:51:37.150
2013. And it eats away at you today because you

00:51:37.150 --> 00:51:39.369
felt helpless and what could you do like that?

00:51:39.449 --> 00:51:42.210
It's not the calls that I did everything and

00:51:42.210 --> 00:51:46.650
I did. It's it's did I do enough? How how do

00:51:46.650 --> 00:51:49.650
I sleep at night knowing? Should I have given

00:51:49.650 --> 00:51:52.769
something? Should I have not? So those are those

00:51:52.769 --> 00:51:55.650
are those existential questions that also eat

00:51:55.650 --> 00:51:58.849
away that contribute to those, you know, all

00:51:58.849 --> 00:52:04.309
the downstream issues. So, yeah. Yeah. I had

00:52:04.309 --> 00:52:07.130
a cardiac arrest on a plane just over a year

00:52:07.130 --> 00:52:09.710
ago. I was in London about to fly home and we

00:52:09.710 --> 00:52:12.409
were on the tarmac about to push off to the runway.

00:52:12.809 --> 00:52:16.289
And the last patient kind of shuffled over and

00:52:16.289 --> 00:52:19.650
then just collapsed in the aisle. And very long

00:52:19.650 --> 00:52:22.559
story short. Unlike all these news stories where

00:52:22.559 --> 00:52:24.880
there was 20 cardiologists coming back from a,

00:52:24.900 --> 00:52:28.639
no, zero. No one had even any emergency medicine.

00:52:28.900 --> 00:52:31.059
So I ended up running this code, but the poor

00:52:31.059 --> 00:52:34.119
crew is Virgin Atlantic. They had to ask permission

00:52:34.119 --> 00:52:37.019
for every single piece of equipment to be released.

00:52:37.219 --> 00:52:41.039
So the AED, the BVM, oxygen, and their oxygen

00:52:41.039 --> 00:52:43.599
only went up to, I think it was like six liters

00:52:43.599 --> 00:52:45.599
a minute. Yeah, I mean, it was like nothing.

00:52:46.360 --> 00:52:48.739
There was no med bag. I mean, it was just crazy.

00:52:48.820 --> 00:52:50.440
So, you know, working it and then the London

00:52:50.440 --> 00:52:52.960
Fire Brigade came on and they're not big on the

00:52:52.960 --> 00:52:56.260
EMS side. They're very, very basic first responders.

00:52:56.400 --> 00:52:58.920
And then the medics showed up, ended up dragging

00:52:58.920 --> 00:53:00.780
them to the galley, carrying on working them.

00:53:01.039 --> 00:53:03.179
But that was the biggest one of like not being

00:53:03.179 --> 00:53:04.880
able to do enough because if it'd been my crew,

00:53:05.059 --> 00:53:08.400
this orchestrated, rehearsed, you know, symphony

00:53:08.400 --> 00:53:10.179
of things would have happened simultaneously.

00:53:10.860 --> 00:53:14.920
But now I'm on my own. with no equipment, you

00:53:14.920 --> 00:53:16.539
know, wondering all the compressions, right.

00:53:16.619 --> 00:53:18.500
You know, I've got no capnography. I've got nothing

00:53:18.500 --> 00:53:20.159
that's going to really help me if we're doing

00:53:20.159 --> 00:53:22.679
it. And then at the end, all right, you know,

00:53:22.719 --> 00:53:24.119
I'm going to go wash my hands and go back to

00:53:24.119 --> 00:53:26.579
my seat. So that I would say of my whole career

00:53:26.579 --> 00:53:29.039
was the most jarring one, because we could have

00:53:29.039 --> 00:53:31.559
done more. We didn't have the ability really

00:53:31.559 --> 00:53:34.000
to do it, but were the compressions, you know,

00:53:34.000 --> 00:53:35.739
fast enough, were they, you know what I mean?

00:53:35.780 --> 00:53:38.480
All these things. You did everything you could

00:53:38.480 --> 00:53:40.699
as a good Samaritan by that point, but the professional

00:53:40.699 --> 00:53:42.659
paramedic in you is like, we could have done

00:53:42.659 --> 00:53:45.039
so much more. I think he wouldn't have made it.

00:53:45.059 --> 00:53:47.119
He had that look. I'm the Grim Reaper. Every

00:53:47.119 --> 00:53:49.440
single code I ever had never made it. I'm just

00:53:49.440 --> 00:53:52.480
that guy. But that being said, like you said,

00:53:52.659 --> 00:53:55.619
if the code went well and you lost them, mentally,

00:53:55.719 --> 00:53:58.059
that's a much better place. But when you know

00:53:58.059 --> 00:53:59.380
that there were things that should have been

00:53:59.380 --> 00:54:02.500
done that weren't, that's a horrible thing to

00:54:02.500 --> 00:54:05.579
take with you. Yeah, it's there. It's another

00:54:05.579 --> 00:54:09.039
little piece. plucked out of your soul um so

00:54:09.039 --> 00:54:11.980
i'll i'm gonna pepper in something please about

00:54:11.980 --> 00:54:14.320
it's kind of the opposite of that so i was on

00:54:14.320 --> 00:54:16.780
a flight from fort lauderdale to atlanta and

00:54:16.780 --> 00:54:19.119
i was working for the easy io and i was in my

00:54:19.119 --> 00:54:22.059
scrubs because that's you know we run run to

00:54:22.059 --> 00:54:24.260
the airport and you go i was large territory

00:54:24.260 --> 00:54:26.940
so i'm sitting up toward the front of the plane

00:54:26.940 --> 00:54:29.980
and you know we're in flight and there's this

00:54:29.980 --> 00:54:33.260
kid next to me just Just every bit of a shitty

00:54:33.260 --> 00:54:36.139
kid, you know, jumping, hopping, throwing, biting,

00:54:36.199 --> 00:54:39.079
spitting, screaming. And the mother just do -do

00:54:39.079 --> 00:54:41.320
-do -do -do. So I'm like, oh. And then you hear

00:54:41.320 --> 00:54:43.000
over, you know, is there a nurse or doctor on

00:54:43.000 --> 00:54:50.260
the plane? There's got to be. There's got to

00:54:50.260 --> 00:54:53.340
be. You know, and here I am in a set of scrubs.

00:54:54.539 --> 00:54:56.780
And then it comes over again. Is there a nurse

00:54:56.780 --> 00:54:59.159
or a doctor on the plane? Like with much more.

00:54:59.920 --> 00:55:02.599
impetus in the voice because usually it's something

00:55:02.599 --> 00:55:05.059
that's you know benign someone's nauseated someone

00:55:05.059 --> 00:55:08.099
threw up somebody spilled something and then

00:55:08.099 --> 00:55:09.980
i'm like all right i'll get away from this kid

00:55:09.980 --> 00:55:13.400
anyway so i hit the call bell and the flight

00:55:13.400 --> 00:55:16.559
attendant came over to me and she's like like

00:55:16.559 --> 00:55:19.719
something's wrong you know there there's something

00:55:19.719 --> 00:55:22.500
so i go walk over and this woman is unconscious

00:55:22.500 --> 00:55:26.840
unresponsive in the seat and just before this

00:55:26.840 --> 00:55:30.750
flight i was working with i think a legion air

00:55:30.750 --> 00:55:33.289
some one of the flight they were looking to see

00:55:33.289 --> 00:55:36.070
if they should get pulse oximetry on these things

00:55:36.070 --> 00:55:39.289
they have an eemk are you familiar with an eemk

00:55:39.289 --> 00:55:42.869
is i am not no well a lot of people aren't so

00:55:42.869 --> 00:55:46.590
an eemk is on every american commercial flight

00:55:46.590 --> 00:55:49.269
it's an enhanced emergency medical kit it has

00:55:49.269 --> 00:55:53.030
everything to run a cardiac arrest uh anaphylaxis

00:55:53.030 --> 00:55:57.449
like iv everything um and i was completely unaware

00:55:57.449 --> 00:55:59.849
of what an emk was just until like the week before

00:55:59.849 --> 00:56:02.570
so and here's the funny thing because you're

00:56:02.570 --> 00:56:05.690
saying you know virgin atlantic or they're they're

00:56:05.690 --> 00:56:08.010
asking permission for everything and apparently

00:56:08.010 --> 00:56:10.070
if you just speak authoritatively enough and

00:56:10.070 --> 00:56:13.530
you know an acronym acronym like so i go over

00:56:13.530 --> 00:56:14.869
and i just stand up and i look at the flight

00:56:14.869 --> 00:56:21.190
and i go give me the emk stat new med bags appear

00:56:21.190 --> 00:56:24.349
out of nowhere part blanche open them up And

00:56:24.349 --> 00:56:26.670
I ask anyone around, is anyone in medicine, nurse,

00:56:26.769 --> 00:56:29.190
and I'm in nursing school. Here's an IV. Do you

00:56:29.190 --> 00:56:31.150
know how to spike an IV? Okay, spike that. I

00:56:31.150 --> 00:56:33.909
find it. I get stuff to start an IV. I'm looking

00:56:33.909 --> 00:56:36.650
around. I look at the, assess the patient. Airway's

00:56:36.650 --> 00:56:38.829
open, shallow respirations, got the oxygen on.

00:56:39.389 --> 00:56:41.210
Pinpoint pupils. I'm like, ah, it's an overdose

00:56:41.210 --> 00:56:43.409
most likely, but let me rule out the others.

00:56:43.570 --> 00:56:47.050
So I go to the, I start an IV. I get some blood

00:56:47.050 --> 00:56:48.570
and I look at the flight attendant. I'm like,

00:56:48.590 --> 00:56:51.130
can you call over the intercom and say, ask anyone

00:56:51.130 --> 00:56:53.389
if they have a glucometer. Okay, glucometer.

00:56:53.739 --> 00:56:56.619
So she gets on, does anybody have a glucometer?

00:56:58.840 --> 00:57:01.659
So I just, you know, big teacher voice. Does

00:57:01.659 --> 00:57:04.099
anybody have a glucometer? Checking their sugar.

00:57:04.400 --> 00:57:07.000
Like three appear. Check the sugar. It's fine.

00:57:07.659 --> 00:57:11.199
Most EMK kits either have Narcan or they don't.

00:57:11.239 --> 00:57:14.000
This one didn't have Narcan. Patient stops breathing.

00:57:14.260 --> 00:57:16.420
I get an Ambu bag. I start bagging from behind.

00:57:16.820 --> 00:57:18.460
And the flight attendant comes over and goes,

00:57:18.460 --> 00:57:21.059
the pilot wants to know if we can divert, if

00:57:21.059 --> 00:57:23.460
we need to divert. I'm like, how long can we

00:57:23.460 --> 00:57:25.440
get to Atlanta? Because this is where I know

00:57:25.440 --> 00:57:26.980
is a little bit of a piece of shit and traveling

00:57:26.980 --> 00:57:29.500
too much. I'm like, I don't want to divert. Nobody

00:57:29.500 --> 00:57:31.719
wants to divert. It's an airway problem. I can

00:57:31.719 --> 00:57:33.719
maintain the airway. We can bag. Good pulse.

00:57:33.780 --> 00:57:35.539
Everything else is good. We got good vitals.

00:57:36.320 --> 00:57:38.420
She's like, we can be on the ground in like 12

00:57:38.420 --> 00:57:41.380
minutes. Probably acceptable time. No, no, just

00:57:41.380 --> 00:57:43.699
go. Priority clearance. I'm like, yes, probably

00:57:43.699 --> 00:57:49.320
travel to Atlanta. Just a piece of shit. I hate

00:57:49.320 --> 00:57:52.400
myself that I know that. So anyway. The woman

00:57:52.400 --> 00:57:54.679
signs up coming around. She took too many Percocets.

00:57:54.679 --> 00:57:58.260
Her father had died. So she is overdosed a little.

00:57:58.400 --> 00:58:00.519
We'll find them coming back. So Atlanta Fire

00:58:00.519 --> 00:58:02.739
comes on board. And I got a line, oxygen, all

00:58:02.739 --> 00:58:07.440
this stuff. And he's like, I can't replace all

00:58:07.440 --> 00:58:09.219
your medical supplies. I'm like, mine? They're

00:58:09.219 --> 00:58:11.340
the airlines. They didn't know that they had

00:58:11.340 --> 00:58:13.340
them. So they escort the lady, take her to the

00:58:13.340 --> 00:58:16.239
hospital. So the crew's like, hey, can you talk

00:58:16.239 --> 00:58:17.780
on the phone here? This is our medical director.

00:58:17.920 --> 00:58:20.409
They kind of want to know what's going on. So

00:58:20.409 --> 00:58:22.090
I just tell him exactly what I did. And he's

00:58:22.090 --> 00:58:25.409
like, oh, OK, good. Hang up. And I give him my

00:58:25.409 --> 00:58:27.550
business card. I was working for Vitacare and

00:58:27.550 --> 00:58:29.309
they were out of Texas at the time. But, you

00:58:29.309 --> 00:58:32.110
know, I lived in Atlanta then. And I remember

00:58:32.110 --> 00:58:35.210
getting a card in the mail weeks later and it

00:58:35.210 --> 00:58:37.269
was from Vitacare. And I open it up and there's

00:58:37.269 --> 00:58:39.610
an envelope in there and it's from the Delta

00:58:39.610 --> 00:58:43.349
Crew 1739. We want to thank you for your efforts

00:58:43.349 --> 00:58:47.500
in this call. Enjoy the basket. So then there's

00:58:47.500 --> 00:58:49.300
another envelope. It's from the secretary at

00:58:49.300 --> 00:58:51.360
Vitacare. Hey, Eric, here's the card from Delta.

00:58:51.480 --> 00:58:54.019
We ate the basket. So they sent like a meat and

00:58:54.019 --> 00:59:00.239
cheese basket. I don't think that would happen

00:59:00.239 --> 00:59:02.420
this day and age, because I think now it requires

00:59:02.420 --> 00:59:05.420
a lot more due diligence to release that, much

00:59:05.420 --> 00:59:07.880
like what happened with you. Yeah, yeah. But

00:59:07.880 --> 00:59:12.619
actually, the EMK, I had a syncopal patient,

00:59:12.679 --> 00:59:15.329
basically. and he dropped and it was funny because

00:59:15.329 --> 00:59:18.219
when people say is there a doctor there's a lot

00:59:18.219 --> 00:59:19.820
of different professions where you have the title

00:59:19.820 --> 00:59:21.920
doctor doesn't mean you actually understand emergency

00:59:21.920 --> 00:59:23.980
medicine. And I witnessed that not being arrogant.

00:59:24.059 --> 00:59:25.780
I didn't get up at first because all these doctors

00:59:25.780 --> 00:59:27.900
showed up. Now I realized they were probably

00:59:27.900 --> 00:59:30.039
podiatrists and proctologists and had no idea

00:59:30.039 --> 00:59:31.500
what they were doing with emergency medicine

00:59:31.500 --> 00:59:35.420
or philosophers maybe. So I ended up doing a

00:59:35.420 --> 00:59:37.400
full assessment again, but that time they did.

00:59:37.500 --> 00:59:39.639
And I had epi, I had, I mean, everything, like

00:59:39.639 --> 00:59:41.639
the whole gamut. And ironically, when it was

00:59:41.639 --> 00:59:43.500
actually a cardiac arrest, when I needed all

00:59:43.500 --> 00:59:45.800
that stuff, it was nowhere to be found. Yeah.

00:59:45.820 --> 00:59:48.929
So. I actually I applauded the crew. They were

00:59:48.929 --> 00:59:50.909
phenomenal. They really were. I mean, every we

00:59:50.909 --> 00:59:52.989
had bystanders helping. Let me be very clear.

00:59:53.230 --> 00:59:55.309
They just weren't, you know, like ER nurses or

00:59:55.309 --> 00:59:58.349
doctors or anything. But and then the crew after

00:59:58.349 --> 01:00:00.269
that, a couple of them went home and I told them,

01:00:00.269 --> 01:00:02.829
that's amazing. Good for you for knowing where

01:00:02.829 --> 01:00:04.869
you stay, where you're at now. And then the rest

01:00:04.869 --> 01:00:08.070
of them carried on and served people after as

01:00:08.070 --> 01:00:11.010
one. She had 28 years as a stewardess that never,

01:00:11.050 --> 01:00:15.380
never had a cardiac arrest. And that was one

01:00:15.380 --> 01:00:17.059
of the last ones that she had, I think. I think

01:00:17.059 --> 01:00:19.400
she kind of transitioned out after. So, yeah,

01:00:19.460 --> 01:00:21.300
getting to talk to them and let them offload

01:00:21.300 --> 01:00:24.139
a bit. But, yeah, I mean, it was crazy. It really

01:00:24.139 --> 01:00:28.019
was. And good for you for doing that. It reminds

01:00:28.019 --> 01:00:30.280
me, there was an old episode of the show Scrubs.

01:00:31.059 --> 01:00:35.500
And it was a comedic, you know, thing. But the

01:00:35.500 --> 01:00:37.199
head guy, who's really a pain in the ass, and

01:00:37.199 --> 01:00:38.800
he's looking at this doctor through the window,

01:00:38.940 --> 01:00:40.679
explaining to this family that their loved one

01:00:40.679 --> 01:00:43.820
is dead, that, you know. Despite all of modern

01:00:43.820 --> 01:00:46.500
medicine and their best efforts, there's nothing

01:00:46.500 --> 01:00:49.000
they can do to that patient to survive. He's

01:00:49.000 --> 01:00:50.960
like, and that family is going to be devastated

01:00:50.960 --> 01:00:54.480
the whole day. And none of them are going back

01:00:54.480 --> 01:00:57.300
to work. But that doc is going to come out. That

01:00:57.300 --> 01:00:59.400
medic is going to come out. That flight attendant

01:00:59.400 --> 01:01:01.159
is going to come out and just go about their

01:01:01.159 --> 01:01:03.800
day. Like that's – there's not a lot of professions

01:01:03.800 --> 01:01:07.159
where they do that. So to underscore even on

01:01:07.159 --> 01:01:11.280
an airline level, you're right. That's a horrific

01:01:11.280 --> 01:01:14.460
event. You know, when that football player dropped

01:01:14.460 --> 01:01:17.420
and they did CPR and it affected the whole country.

01:01:17.519 --> 01:01:21.900
Oh, my God. It was so traumatizing. Yeah. Yeah,

01:01:21.900 --> 01:01:25.519
it is. It sucks. It is. It sucks. Now watch,

01:01:25.519 --> 01:01:28.019
rinse, repeat, and then go to the next call or

01:01:28.019 --> 01:01:29.780
go to the next room and put on the smile and

01:01:29.780 --> 01:01:32.219
go, hey, Johnny, how's the kidney? You know,

01:01:32.280 --> 01:01:35.940
it's, yeah, we're the best directors in the world,

01:01:36.000 --> 01:01:39.340
I think. Absolutely. Well, you mentioned earlier

01:01:39.340 --> 01:01:41.969
about, you know. Practicing on cadavers. One

01:01:41.969 --> 01:01:44.269
of the best trainings I had in the last place

01:01:44.269 --> 01:01:46.929
I worked was we did a cadaver lab. Did a bunch

01:01:46.929 --> 01:01:50.630
of crikes, you know, a bunch of needle decompressions.

01:01:50.710 --> 01:01:52.730
And it's bizarre. If anyone has done it before,

01:01:52.789 --> 01:01:57.630
I had a torso who the face was wrapped and then

01:01:57.630 --> 01:02:00.449
it stopped right where the ribs were. So very,

01:02:00.510 --> 01:02:03.550
very eerie. No arms, if I remember rightly. So,

01:02:03.650 --> 01:02:05.630
yeah, it's quite an interesting thing, but invaluable

01:02:05.630 --> 01:02:08.920
for. I mean, they use it a lot more in natural

01:02:08.920 --> 01:02:11.400
physicians and that kind of thing. But from a

01:02:11.400 --> 01:02:13.000
paramedics point of view, and this is towards

01:02:13.000 --> 01:02:16.300
the end of my career, it was incredible just

01:02:16.300 --> 01:02:18.639
to go over and over and over again on a real

01:02:18.639 --> 01:02:22.219
person. It's practice changing. So when I worked

01:02:22.219 --> 01:02:24.619
for VitaCare, that even when they sold the Teleflex,

01:02:24.760 --> 01:02:27.820
we did national cadaver labs. And I've been fortunate

01:02:27.820 --> 01:02:30.380
enough to have been part of that for almost a

01:02:30.380 --> 01:02:33.440
decade and hundreds and hundreds of these labs.

01:02:33.659 --> 01:02:38.780
And I'm all about. educating up. And just, you

01:02:38.780 --> 01:02:41.679
know, I don't care if a chest tube is not in

01:02:41.679 --> 01:02:43.360
your scope of practice. I'm not teaching you

01:02:43.360 --> 01:02:45.699
to be competent on the chest tube as a nurse

01:02:45.699 --> 01:02:48.219
or a paramedic. But while you're helping someone

01:02:48.219 --> 01:02:50.699
who's doing it, now you understand why it might

01:02:50.699 --> 01:02:53.199
be difficult. You anticipate what needs to be

01:02:53.199 --> 01:02:56.360
next. But more importantly, how else and where

01:02:56.360 --> 01:02:59.000
else were you going to be able to operate in

01:02:59.000 --> 01:03:02.000
an environment of zero consequence? Make the

01:03:02.000 --> 01:03:04.639
wrong cut. Put the airway in the goose. Try a

01:03:04.639 --> 01:03:08.389
new blade. Try a new technique. It's consequence

01:03:08.389 --> 01:03:12.269
free. And that taking that away versus I'm in

01:03:12.269 --> 01:03:14.070
the OR, I got to get the intubation the patient

01:03:14.070 --> 01:03:17.349
needs, you know, get it in the goose. Try one

01:03:17.349 --> 01:03:20.150
of the goose in there. Try stuff you wouldn't

01:03:20.150 --> 01:03:23.210
do. And I agree with you. Some of the most fulfilling

01:03:23.210 --> 01:03:25.630
moments of my life have been teaching those cadaver

01:03:25.630 --> 01:03:28.590
labs because I always learn something, you know,

01:03:28.590 --> 01:03:33.510
and yeah, I agree. I'm happy that it's more and

01:03:33.510 --> 01:03:38.190
more available. for paramedics, nurses, and not

01:03:38.190 --> 01:03:41.230
just the physicians. I'm seeing a push now where

01:03:41.230 --> 01:03:43.429
I think even chest tubes are being presented

01:03:43.429 --> 01:03:45.670
as a possibility for medics in the field. But

01:03:45.670 --> 01:03:48.610
that's what I found when I got to that point

01:03:48.610 --> 01:03:51.210
is like, okay, well, what's next? Like, how can

01:03:51.210 --> 01:03:53.889
we increase our skills? I'm having Dr. Antevi,

01:03:54.030 --> 01:03:56.369
the guy behind the Antevi system. He's coming

01:03:56.369 --> 01:03:58.329
back on again. We're talking about whole blood.

01:03:58.449 --> 01:04:01.110
I mean, there's all these innovations, but my

01:04:01.110 --> 01:04:03.010
career, it was kind of like, no, this is all

01:04:03.010 --> 01:04:05.250
we do. This is our scope of practice. But then

01:04:05.250 --> 01:04:06.969
where are areas, you know, what are, I mean,

01:04:06.989 --> 01:04:09.550
even like field amputations. I know it sounds

01:04:09.550 --> 01:04:11.730
crazy, but who is there at the time while the

01:04:11.730 --> 01:04:14.570
person's in track? It's the medics. You allow

01:04:14.570 --> 01:04:18.050
us to cut people's throats open, you know, then

01:04:18.050 --> 01:04:20.409
give the education so you can safely, you know,

01:04:20.449 --> 01:04:22.369
remove a limb so you can get that person out

01:04:22.369 --> 01:04:24.730
to the hospital before they bleed to death. So

01:04:24.730 --> 01:04:26.949
I love these conversations where they're pushing

01:04:26.949 --> 01:04:30.320
the parameters out in the paramedic world. I

01:04:30.320 --> 01:04:33.000
spoke about this before with someone else. So

01:04:33.000 --> 01:04:36.659
with Antevi and Shepke and Paul Pepe and all

01:04:36.659 --> 01:04:39.239
the eagles. So, I mean, you're familiar with

01:04:39.239 --> 01:04:41.539
that group. They're medical directors of all

01:04:41.539 --> 01:04:44.599
kind of the big EMS agencies. So they get together

01:04:44.599 --> 01:04:47.119
once a year and they really try to have this

01:04:47.119 --> 01:04:49.679
evidence -based push, just what you're saying.

01:04:52.519 --> 01:04:55.880
whole blood was kind of a baby of the Broward

01:04:55.880 --> 01:04:58.619
County medical director and it's usually born

01:04:58.619 --> 01:05:01.980
out of tragedy you know he lost his niece uh

01:05:01.980 --> 01:05:04.699
in an accident in Florida and she was just over

01:05:04.699 --> 01:05:08.679
salinized and it really hurt him so he's like

01:05:08.679 --> 01:05:12.519
whole blood whole blood and and that eagle network

01:05:13.280 --> 01:05:17.179
helps each other's initiatives. And you're right.

01:05:17.260 --> 01:05:19.840
What starts out as this blasphemous thing, you

01:05:19.840 --> 01:05:23.199
know, only a nurse, two nurses and double verification

01:05:23.199 --> 01:05:26.079
and, you know, to get this blood, it doesn't

01:05:26.079 --> 01:05:28.860
exist anymore. You know, there are safety parameters,

01:05:29.059 --> 01:05:32.960
but why? Why were we neglecting some very smart

01:05:32.960 --> 01:05:35.059
people because they didn't have the right initials

01:05:35.059 --> 01:05:37.440
after their name? But the training is there.

01:05:37.599 --> 01:05:40.300
The evidence is there. And you're right. That

01:05:40.300 --> 01:05:44.670
stigma is going away. But more importantly, it's

01:05:44.670 --> 01:05:48.369
difficult to replicate that. So you can have

01:05:48.369 --> 01:05:51.230
Broward County's carrying whole blood. But how

01:05:51.230 --> 01:05:54.949
do I get, you know, Bartow Fire to do that? You

01:05:54.949 --> 01:05:56.309
know what I mean? They don't have the budget

01:05:56.309 --> 01:05:59.090
to do that. Their medical direction is not unified.

01:05:59.170 --> 01:06:01.969
Their medical director might be more of a paper

01:06:01.969 --> 01:06:04.449
medical director than an involved medical director

01:06:04.449 --> 01:06:08.099
and may not want the legalities of that. That's

01:06:08.099 --> 01:06:09.780
the bigger question that I have is how do we

01:06:09.780 --> 01:06:12.159
take these phenomenal ideas and these practices,

01:06:12.519 --> 01:06:15.079
finger thoracotomies, you know, just what you

01:06:15.079 --> 01:06:18.079
say, and how does that become standard of care

01:06:18.079 --> 01:06:24.849
financially and legally? I think, I mean, even

01:06:24.849 --> 01:06:27.570
when you talk about a lot of deliveries of service

01:06:27.570 --> 01:06:30.409
or even say, you know, having a nutritionist

01:06:30.409 --> 01:06:32.010
and a strength and conditioning coach, if you

01:06:32.010 --> 01:06:34.789
are in Miami -Dade or LA, yeah, you're going

01:06:34.789 --> 01:06:37.050
to have multiple because you've got the budget,

01:06:37.130 --> 01:06:39.389
you've got the number of people. Let's say now

01:06:39.389 --> 01:06:42.230
you're in, you know, like you said, a smaller

01:06:42.230 --> 01:06:44.789
area where it's more, you know, towns and that

01:06:44.789 --> 01:06:46.630
kind of thing. Well, then it's when you come

01:06:46.630 --> 01:06:49.019
together. And I think Anaheim. When I worked

01:06:49.019 --> 01:06:51.579
there in California, they had networks. So where

01:06:51.579 --> 01:06:53.719
we train was called North Net and that was Anaheim's

01:06:53.719 --> 01:06:56.260
training tower. But we were trained with Fullerton

01:06:56.260 --> 01:06:58.719
and Orange and all the surrounding departments.

01:06:59.119 --> 01:07:01.500
And so, yeah, if you yourself aren't big enough

01:07:01.500 --> 01:07:04.300
for this thing, then again, we're talking about

01:07:04.300 --> 01:07:06.960
humility. So as a medical director, have the

01:07:06.960 --> 01:07:09.420
humility to actually work with the agencies around

01:07:09.420 --> 01:07:12.239
you so that you can share blood. Like one of

01:07:12.239 --> 01:07:14.380
the people I was talking to recently said the

01:07:14.380 --> 01:07:16.219
blood is actually on the helicopters where they

01:07:16.219 --> 01:07:18.849
are. So, you know, it doesn't have to actually

01:07:18.849 --> 01:07:21.289
be on every rig. If you can't make that work

01:07:21.289 --> 01:07:25.449
in your municipality, then get it on all your

01:07:25.449 --> 01:07:28.070
helicopter transport. So at least as soon as

01:07:28.070 --> 01:07:30.030
they get there, now you can start giving blood.

01:07:30.170 --> 01:07:32.610
OK, that's another great alternative if you're

01:07:32.610 --> 01:07:35.429
not in a highly dense population. Right. But

01:07:35.429 --> 01:07:36.969
have a backup when it's bad weather and they

01:07:36.969 --> 01:07:39.849
can't fly. Oh, 100 percent. The contingence on

01:07:39.849 --> 01:07:43.309
that. Yeah, it's yeah. And the critical care

01:07:43.309 --> 01:07:47.070
paramedicine has really, really. um legitimized

01:07:47.070 --> 01:07:53.550
I think EMS you know um in in a great way so

01:07:53.550 --> 01:07:55.369
I don't I don't mean to detract from that but

01:07:55.369 --> 01:07:56.550
yeah you're right the whole blood initiative

01:07:56.550 --> 01:08:00.610
and and and educating up I'm glad it's happening

01:08:00.610 --> 01:08:04.349
like that's a great thing about EMS is it's not

01:08:04.349 --> 01:08:08.130
stagnant you know it it keeps evolving in a good

01:08:08.130 --> 01:08:12.210
way and yeah and ego's a bastard you're right

01:08:12.619 --> 01:08:16.380
the ego has killed a lot of patients and it's

01:08:16.380 --> 01:08:20.119
not it's not the the clinician's ego it's yeah

01:08:20.119 --> 01:08:22.199
someone higher up the chain that's afraid or

01:08:22.199 --> 01:08:25.399
doesn't whatever the whatever the motive is to

01:08:25.399 --> 01:08:28.579
not propel forward not an early adopter a late

01:08:28.579 --> 01:08:32.520
adopter or a non -adopter i know you worked in

01:08:32.520 --> 01:08:34.819
the kind of you know medical equipment side as

01:08:34.819 --> 01:08:37.119
well before we jump into some of the innovations

01:08:37.119 --> 01:08:40.130
that you're excited about What is your perspective

01:08:40.130 --> 01:08:42.529
on backboarding? Because there's just some things

01:08:42.529 --> 01:08:45.210
that are true. Like, for example, a car fire

01:08:45.210 --> 01:08:48.869
is a class B fire. It's oil, it's tires, it's

01:08:48.869 --> 01:08:52.130
plastic seats. That should not be water. That's

01:08:52.130 --> 01:08:55.550
foam or smother it. But yet, since I was taught

01:08:55.550 --> 01:08:58.229
in school, it was always just flow water. Makes

01:08:58.229 --> 01:09:01.750
no sense to me. And then backboarding, we all

01:09:01.750 --> 01:09:03.810
know that when you strap someone to a board,

01:09:03.970 --> 01:09:06.649
they slide around like a Russian on an ice rink.

01:09:07.210 --> 01:09:10.390
And it just doesn't make any sense. It just does

01:09:10.390 --> 01:09:12.229
not make any sense. And then they're uncomfortable.

01:09:12.489 --> 01:09:15.090
You got the elderly with the scoliosis and then

01:09:15.090 --> 01:09:17.670
positionally, some of them can't breathe. So

01:09:17.670 --> 01:09:19.489
that's what I've seen observationally through

01:09:19.489 --> 01:09:21.369
my career. And you've heard even that there was

01:09:21.369 --> 01:09:23.609
no real research to support backboarding in the

01:09:23.609 --> 01:09:26.029
first place. So what has been, you've got a much

01:09:26.029 --> 01:09:28.310
longer career than I had. What is your perspective

01:09:28.310 --> 01:09:33.270
on immobilization in EMS? I think there are certain

01:09:33.270 --> 01:09:35.350
situations where it necessitates immobilization.

01:09:36.000 --> 01:09:38.399
Hands down, cardiac arrest on the third floor,

01:09:38.520 --> 01:09:42.979
fourth floor, whatever. So take that out of it.

01:09:45.859 --> 01:09:49.939
Where you can clear a C -spine in the field,

01:09:50.439 --> 01:09:55.460
fine. I don't see why that's not, like you can't

01:09:55.460 --> 01:09:58.640
do that, why there's not more of a case. I honestly

01:09:58.640 --> 01:10:02.000
think it's also perpetuated because that's just

01:10:02.000 --> 01:10:05.750
the way that it's been done. That's the cool

01:10:05.750 --> 01:10:07.789
thing in medic school and ENT school. Let's strap

01:10:07.789 --> 01:10:09.529
you to the board and hold you upside down. And

01:10:09.529 --> 01:10:11.890
we got all these clips and, you know, it's part

01:10:11.890 --> 01:10:19.310
of it. So I guess I'm not a big fan of backboarding.

01:10:19.770 --> 01:10:22.050
For all the aforementioned things that you'd

01:10:22.050 --> 01:10:24.010
said, yes, they create these pediatric boards

01:10:24.010 --> 01:10:25.869
that scoop up the head, but there's nothing for

01:10:25.869 --> 01:10:28.510
the obese patient. There's nothing for, you know,

01:10:28.550 --> 01:10:32.289
it makes intubation difficult. There's so many

01:10:32.289 --> 01:10:36.289
more. benefits to being able to have somebody

01:10:36.289 --> 01:10:39.609
mobile particularly and let's go way back you

01:10:39.609 --> 01:10:41.890
know 48 minutes ago and we're talking about sitting

01:10:41.890 --> 01:10:44.890
in the emergency department in the hallway you're

01:10:44.890 --> 01:10:47.350
on a backboard you know how long before the decubity

01:10:47.350 --> 01:10:49.890
starts it is uncomfortable and if they have to

01:10:49.890 --> 01:10:53.630
pee and how efficacious is it what is the risk

01:10:53.630 --> 01:10:56.930
benefit of doing that physically emotionally

01:10:56.930 --> 01:11:01.130
and mentally for your patients so yeah and what

01:11:01.130 --> 01:11:03.420
the i don't have the right answer Well, it's

01:11:03.420 --> 01:11:05.199
just interesting what the physicians do to clear

01:11:05.199 --> 01:11:08.920
them. Like you said, it's not medical level stuff.

01:11:09.039 --> 01:11:13.899
It's basic stuff. It is a physical assessment.

01:11:14.699 --> 01:11:17.640
So if they don't have the mental capacity to

01:11:17.640 --> 01:11:20.060
pass that physical assessment, yeah, I can argue

01:11:20.060 --> 01:11:23.140
with using it. You're erring on the side. But

01:11:23.140 --> 01:11:25.899
where do we draw that error? Well, I think it

01:11:25.899 --> 01:11:27.420
goes back to courage, like we were talking about

01:11:27.420 --> 01:11:30.420
before, that paralysis by analysis, this fear

01:11:30.420 --> 01:11:33.800
of litigation that's paralyzed in a lot of agencies,

01:11:33.880 --> 01:11:36.800
a lot of medics. I was like, you know what? Like

01:11:36.800 --> 01:11:38.939
you just said earlier, if you're doing the right

01:11:38.939 --> 01:11:40.680
thing and you can explain it to the patient,

01:11:40.859 --> 01:11:43.720
then you shouldn't be terrified of some court

01:11:43.720 --> 01:11:46.039
case or whatever. If you did everything that

01:11:46.039 --> 01:11:48.390
you were supposed to do. then you're good. But

01:11:48.390 --> 01:11:52.149
this whole fear of, oh, what if? We've got to

01:11:52.149 --> 01:11:53.890
take everyone to the hospital because what if

01:11:53.890 --> 01:11:55.390
there was this one time? It's like, all right,

01:11:55.390 --> 01:11:57.970
but then they can call us back if things get

01:11:57.970 --> 01:12:00.310
worse. But right now, they don't want to go and

01:12:00.310 --> 01:12:01.890
we're not seeing anything that warrants an ER

01:12:01.890 --> 01:12:05.149
visit. So I'm good with it. They signed the signature,

01:12:05.329 --> 01:12:07.489
off we go. Even though, again, those tough book

01:12:07.489 --> 01:12:10.850
signatures can stand up in court. An articulated,

01:12:11.010 --> 01:12:15.149
educated response to why and they agreed with

01:12:15.149 --> 01:12:18.760
you. But yeah. What if, and this is always how

01:12:18.760 --> 01:12:23.039
we've done it, are just daggers out there? Because,

01:12:23.119 --> 01:12:26.479
again, it's courage. Like an agency saying, if

01:12:26.479 --> 01:12:28.260
you do everything right and someone comes after

01:12:28.260 --> 01:12:30.659
you, we've got your back. And we don't hear that.

01:12:30.899 --> 01:12:36.220
We don't. Not enough. No. No. All right. Well,

01:12:36.239 --> 01:12:38.239
let's talk about medical innovation. So you've

01:12:38.239 --> 01:12:40.600
worked with that for a long time. What are some

01:12:40.600 --> 01:12:43.539
of the innovations that you've seen that you're

01:12:43.539 --> 01:12:47.250
really excited about? So I have to go back to

01:12:47.250 --> 01:12:52.649
my baby, which is the EZIO. So when I was flying

01:12:52.649 --> 01:12:56.090
in Florida, my wife does research for her work.

01:12:56.310 --> 01:12:59.569
She got recruited to Emory for neurology research.

01:13:00.590 --> 01:13:02.449
And she had some family there. And I'm like,

01:13:02.489 --> 01:13:04.270
absolutely. You supported me through my career.

01:13:04.390 --> 01:13:06.710
Let's go up there. I can pick up a flight job

01:13:06.710 --> 01:13:09.590
there. I'll still fly in Florida. But as the

01:13:09.590 --> 01:13:12.329
stars aligned, the chief flight nurse I was working

01:13:12.329 --> 01:13:16.239
with here in Tampa. She was working with Dr.

01:13:16.340 --> 01:13:18.920
Larry Miller and VitaCare and this handful of

01:13:18.920 --> 01:13:23.920
first, you know, people hired for the development

01:13:23.920 --> 01:13:27.479
and hopefully the perpetuation of the easy IO.

01:13:27.960 --> 01:13:31.140
But you got to understand, back in then, I started

01:13:31.140 --> 01:13:35.079
with 2006 with them. IO was a blasphemous word.

01:13:35.300 --> 01:13:37.699
It was the last thing you ever did for a dead

01:13:37.699 --> 01:13:40.760
or dying kid. That's it. Or you have some jockey,

01:13:40.960 --> 01:13:44.270
you know, military guy doing a sternal IO. Because

01:13:44.270 --> 01:13:47.829
it's, you know, like it's got a shock factor

01:13:47.829 --> 01:13:52.050
to it. But it was not remotely standard of care

01:13:52.050 --> 01:13:54.670
unless it was a pediatric patient. And it's the

01:13:54.670 --> 01:13:58.270
last thing you ever did. So Michelle asked me,

01:13:58.329 --> 01:14:00.630
her name is Michelle Moe, smart, smart woman.

01:14:01.210 --> 01:14:03.170
But she asked me up in Atlanta, she needed an

01:14:03.170 --> 01:14:06.930
educator. So I came on board. And yeah, like

01:14:06.930 --> 01:14:08.869
before that, we were just doing peripheral lines.

01:14:08.989 --> 01:14:10.430
And if you were lucky enough in a flight crew,

01:14:10.529 --> 01:14:12.850
you can do a central line, which was not very

01:14:12.850 --> 01:14:16.229
common. But other than that, you just poked and

01:14:16.229 --> 01:14:18.810
poked and poked and prayed that you can get vascular

01:14:18.810 --> 01:14:21.909
access. If that wasn't the case, you know, again,

01:14:21.989 --> 01:14:24.569
out of tragedy comes innovation. And that's what

01:14:24.569 --> 01:14:27.930
led Dr. Miller to develop the EZIO is he had

01:14:27.930 --> 01:14:32.069
a friend who was a fire chief in Texas who just

01:14:32.069 --> 01:14:33.970
insanguinated because they couldn't get vascular

01:14:33.970 --> 01:14:37.409
access. And it dug it into the core that he lost

01:14:37.409 --> 01:14:39.470
his friend because they just couldn't get an

01:14:39.470 --> 01:14:42.960
IV. So he found a drill in his father's workshop

01:14:42.960 --> 01:14:45.300
and toyed around with it, and that's where that

01:14:45.300 --> 01:14:50.220
came from. But when I got brought on board, there

01:14:50.220 --> 01:14:53.380
was about 15 of us, and trying to convince the

01:14:53.380 --> 01:14:57.000
country to drill a needle into your bone or into

01:14:57.000 --> 01:15:00.239
the bone of a person, adult or pediatric, there

01:15:00.239 --> 01:15:02.279
was a lot of naysayers out there. There was a

01:15:02.279 --> 01:15:04.760
lot of shut doors. There was a lot of people.

01:15:04.840 --> 01:15:08.779
I've had physicians say, I will sue you. for

01:15:08.779 --> 01:15:13.460
child abuse, like it was crazy, but that's what

01:15:13.460 --> 01:15:17.319
it was. And then AHA changed their recommendations.

01:15:17.560 --> 01:15:20.039
We had enough evidence -based to support the

01:15:20.039 --> 01:15:24.199
efficacy of it that IO became part of the AHA

01:15:24.199 --> 01:15:27.859
algorithm. IO, then IV, identical to subclavian

01:15:27.859 --> 01:15:31.220
and central access for pharmacokinetics. We held,

01:15:31.380 --> 01:15:34.279
which is not, you know, animal labs are always

01:15:34.279 --> 01:15:38.699
polarized. just because of the nature of animals.

01:15:39.180 --> 01:15:41.720
But, you know, back in the early days, we had

01:15:41.720 --> 01:15:44.979
these animal labs where we had goats and we would

01:15:44.979 --> 01:15:47.380
show the pharmacokinetics. We'd have an ION and

01:15:47.380 --> 01:15:49.739
we would do atomized aerosolized epi down the

01:15:49.739 --> 01:15:52.279
tube and there would be no response. And then

01:15:52.279 --> 01:15:55.560
we would put a quarter of that into an IO and

01:15:55.560 --> 01:15:58.699
you'd see tachycardia within two seconds and

01:15:58.699 --> 01:16:02.140
hypertension, like the physiologic effects of

01:16:02.140 --> 01:16:04.619
those pharmacokinetics. You can't, you know.

01:16:05.020 --> 01:16:08.359
You can't debate that. It works. So then it became

01:16:08.359 --> 01:16:12.760
just educating and expanding from pre -hospital

01:16:12.760 --> 01:16:15.039
to emergency department to ICU to in -hospital

01:16:15.039 --> 01:16:17.659
code carts. And I think you'll agree, IO has

01:16:17.659 --> 01:16:21.680
really just become standard of care throughout

01:16:21.680 --> 01:16:24.319
the world. I mean, it's been literally life -changing

01:16:24.319 --> 01:16:28.659
for patients. So I was fortunate enough to be

01:16:28.659 --> 01:16:31.300
on that early access to that and to see that.

01:16:31.399 --> 01:16:33.560
And then the company was sold to a larger company.

01:16:34.600 --> 01:16:36.640
And then it was time to just step away because

01:16:36.640 --> 01:16:41.060
I was there for nine years. And I think I was

01:16:41.060 --> 01:16:44.779
on 645 Delta flights in that time. So I just

01:16:44.779 --> 01:16:48.140
lived on an airplane. Yeah. The travel was excessive.

01:16:49.159 --> 01:16:51.800
It's an amazing innovation. I mean, it spanned

01:16:51.800 --> 01:16:55.100
my career. Before it was no IO. There's a few

01:16:55.100 --> 01:16:57.960
things that actually came in, which is what I

01:16:57.960 --> 01:17:00.460
say to people now is like, you know, fire an

01:17:00.460 --> 01:17:02.500
EMS. We're standing on the shoulders of giants.

01:17:03.940 --> 01:17:07.279
Our generation, my generation, really the next

01:17:07.279 --> 01:17:09.119
thing that we can do that's really going to make

01:17:09.119 --> 01:17:11.479
a massive change is change the working environment.

01:17:11.779 --> 01:17:14.300
Give our responders rest and recovery. Talk about

01:17:14.300 --> 01:17:16.300
mental health. Put in fitness standards. Look

01:17:16.300 --> 01:17:18.939
at the individual in the uniform. But as far

01:17:18.939 --> 01:17:21.520
as fire, for example, they already invented the

01:17:21.520 --> 01:17:24.060
SCBA. The Halligan is pretty perfect. You know

01:17:24.060 --> 01:17:26.420
what I mean? The extrication tools are phenomenal.

01:17:26.579 --> 01:17:30.050
Now their battery, even better. And even in EMS,

01:17:30.270 --> 01:17:32.729
it's not that often where something really, really

01:17:32.729 --> 01:17:37.369
good comes in. But the EZIO, the MAD device for

01:17:37.369 --> 01:17:40.670
a needle, it's amazing too. Everything you don't

01:17:40.670 --> 01:17:42.850
want a needle around, it replaces. Right, these

01:17:42.850 --> 01:17:47.430
supraglottic airways, the ability to create better

01:17:47.430 --> 01:17:51.989
care for your patients easily. And it's funny,

01:17:52.149 --> 01:17:55.470
when you start creating, when I say you, when

01:17:55.470 --> 01:17:57.569
the industry starts creating these innovators,

01:17:58.390 --> 01:18:02.050
these devices that make the job easier, it's

01:18:02.050 --> 01:18:04.810
not always well -received because some people

01:18:04.810 --> 01:18:06.909
pride themselves. I can get, I'm the only one

01:18:06.909 --> 01:18:09.710
who can get every IV. Well, if you take that

01:18:09.710 --> 01:18:12.689
thing that makes you special away, it's not always

01:18:12.689 --> 01:18:16.789
well -received. It's ego. It's ego. It's crazy.

01:18:17.090 --> 01:18:19.770
It's out there. Mechanical CPR. I mean, I can

01:18:19.770 --> 01:18:21.710
tell you, well, that's what my rookie's for.

01:18:22.270 --> 01:18:24.890
Yeah, but your rookie's inconsistent. you know

01:18:24.890 --> 01:18:26.649
you have something regardless of device that

01:18:26.649 --> 01:18:30.189
you use that that metronautically gives consistent

01:18:30.189 --> 01:18:33.050
compressions why wouldn't you use that it's not

01:18:33.050 --> 01:18:34.949
going to call out sick its back's not going to

01:18:34.949 --> 01:18:38.149
hurt it's not going to need you know a day off

01:18:38.149 --> 01:18:41.789
so things like that that make make it easier

01:18:41.789 --> 01:18:44.289
make it better for the patient's outcome that

01:18:44.289 --> 01:18:48.989
are innovative so those devices yeah i'm sorry

01:18:48.989 --> 01:18:51.220
please No, no, I was just going to say those

01:18:51.220 --> 01:18:54.180
are the vices. And then there's, I'm sure, tons

01:18:54.180 --> 01:18:56.439
more that I'm not aware of. You know, I'm not

01:18:56.439 --> 01:18:59.819
riding in a rescue anymore. We had, I think it

01:18:59.819 --> 01:19:02.779
was Zoll. I don't want to misquote, but it looked

01:19:02.779 --> 01:19:06.710
like a boogie board. and then it had scraps the

01:19:06.710 --> 01:19:09.210
auto pulse that was it yeah that was a pain in

01:19:09.210 --> 01:19:11.729
the ass i i mean they taught us well and everything

01:19:11.729 --> 01:19:13.869
that didn't seem to work but the lucas is the

01:19:13.869 --> 01:19:16.729
one for three years oh did you i was the yeah

01:19:16.729 --> 01:19:19.909
i was the clinical in sales for that device yeah

01:19:19.909 --> 01:19:22.449
it uh you know they've redesigned it but you're

01:19:22.449 --> 01:19:26.250
you're right it if you if if the job is harder

01:19:26.250 --> 01:19:29.470
to me even though it worked better it perfused

01:19:29.470 --> 01:19:33.649
better and scientifically there's it's it didn't

01:19:33.649 --> 01:19:36.090
make the medic's life easier if you're not going

01:19:36.090 --> 01:19:38.590
to make somebody's life easier or they have doubt

01:19:38.590 --> 01:19:40.810
they're not going to use it yeah but you're right

01:19:40.810 --> 01:19:43.770
you're exactly right yeah absolutely but the

01:19:43.770 --> 01:19:45.489
lucas is what they took the dude away off the

01:19:45.489 --> 01:19:47.409
plane in the end but that one is the one i hear

01:19:47.409 --> 01:19:49.390
most these days it seems to be well received

01:19:49.390 --> 01:19:53.409
yeah yeah i mean it's it's it's consistent it

01:19:53.409 --> 01:19:56.079
does its job So, and you're talking to the guy

01:19:56.079 --> 01:19:59.239
who sold the competitor. There we go. You know,

01:19:59.319 --> 01:20:01.539
the auto pulse physiologically worked better

01:20:01.539 --> 01:20:02.840
because I don't want to piss everybody off. It

01:20:02.840 --> 01:20:06.100
really did. The problem is, is it, it had issues

01:20:06.100 --> 01:20:10.560
with replicating the ease of applying it and

01:20:10.560 --> 01:20:13.420
using it. Yeah. They just seem to malfunction.

01:20:13.640 --> 01:20:16.600
It seems to kind of. And they'll come out of

01:20:16.600 --> 01:20:18.659
place sometimes, especially, again, when you're

01:20:18.659 --> 01:20:22.119
actually in the back of a rig that's swaying

01:20:22.119 --> 01:20:25.199
and breaking. It's hard to overcome doubt. Yeah.

01:20:25.319 --> 01:20:26.720
Right, because there's always going to be doubt.

01:20:26.979 --> 01:20:28.739
What if I put it on and it doesn't work? And

01:20:28.739 --> 01:20:30.039
then that goes back to what we were talking about

01:20:30.039 --> 01:20:32.600
earlier. Should I have taken it off? Should I

01:20:32.600 --> 01:20:33.920
have been playing around with it? Or should I

01:20:33.920 --> 01:20:36.020
have just jumped on the chest? Absolutely. So

01:20:36.020 --> 01:20:39.479
all those things come into a decision in a quarter

01:20:39.479 --> 01:20:42.449
of a second. It's funny. while we're talking

01:20:42.449 --> 01:20:44.710
about that and something i've been talking about

01:20:44.710 --> 01:20:47.810
recently and it's interesting um i like i said

01:20:47.810 --> 01:20:50.810
was the grim reaper medic like pre -code lots

01:20:50.810 --> 01:20:53.210
of saves yeah when you went into cardiac arrest

01:20:53.210 --> 01:20:55.630
and i was your medic the just you know you're

01:20:55.630 --> 01:20:57.270
you're off to go see the good lord it's just

01:20:57.270 --> 01:21:01.529
gonna happen so i reflect on the moral injury

01:21:01.529 --> 01:21:05.369
piece and when you think about how we're trained

01:21:05.369 --> 01:21:07.930
if we in the fireside you know we go do our little

01:21:07.930 --> 01:21:10.300
um burns in the burn building and you do a right

01:21:10.300 --> 01:21:12.119
-hand search and you find the baby and you come

01:21:12.119 --> 01:21:13.899
out and you put the fire out and yay, good job,

01:21:13.920 --> 01:21:15.880
James, you did it right. Here's your certificate.

01:21:16.300 --> 01:21:18.640
And then in the EMS side, you have a mega code.

01:21:18.840 --> 01:21:20.399
Okay, here's your initial rhythm. Oh my God,

01:21:20.420 --> 01:21:22.680
they got into asystole, whatever. You work all

01:21:22.680 --> 01:21:24.939
these different codes and algorithms and then

01:21:24.939 --> 01:21:27.779
you get them back. And what I realized is we

01:21:27.779 --> 01:21:30.319
do a huge disservice to our young firefighters

01:21:30.319 --> 01:21:34.479
and MTs and paramedics because we don't weave

01:21:34.479 --> 01:21:38.380
in the fact that the likelihood of ROSC. on a

01:21:38.380 --> 01:21:41.760
cardiac arrest is extremely low. And should we

01:21:41.760 --> 01:21:46.619
actually, in the testing, should we weave some

01:21:46.619 --> 01:21:48.220
things in where they do everything right and

01:21:48.220 --> 01:21:51.220
they still die? You test them on if they did

01:21:51.220 --> 01:21:53.279
everything right, but then you expose them to

01:21:53.279 --> 01:21:55.140
they died, and then maybe you've got to go talk

01:21:55.140 --> 01:21:57.659
to the family as well within this test. And I

01:21:57.659 --> 01:22:00.439
think that would set us up a lot better. Yeah,

01:22:00.479 --> 01:22:03.600
your podcast with Diana spoke about that. And

01:22:03.600 --> 01:22:09.000
you're right. I don't want to say I didn't enjoy

01:22:09.000 --> 01:22:11.920
ever giving the bad news, but I would prefer

01:22:11.920 --> 01:22:14.619
I gave that bad news because I've seen it so

01:22:14.619 --> 01:22:18.079
many times done wrong that there's a way. And

01:22:18.079 --> 01:22:21.300
you're right. They don't teach that. I was teaching

01:22:21.300 --> 01:22:24.920
nursing school for a BSN program here. And one

01:22:24.920 --> 01:22:26.880
of my duties was I ran the high -end simulation.

01:22:27.539 --> 01:22:31.239
And that's what I would do. Every situation was

01:22:31.239 --> 01:22:33.880
black and white, but I made them all gray because

01:22:33.880 --> 01:22:36.140
I want to know what you do. Like one of them,

01:22:36.220 --> 01:22:40.140
okay, let's – and they're based on real circumstances.

01:22:40.859 --> 01:22:44.859
So I have a kid come in, and he's 18 years old.

01:22:44.939 --> 01:22:47.380
He's diabetic. He's hypoglycemic. They identify

01:22:47.380 --> 01:22:50.180
it. They give him the glucose. He comes around.

01:22:50.399 --> 01:22:52.439
As he's coming around, I would pick up the phone

01:22:52.439 --> 01:22:56.539
and call in and say, yeah, this is Jimmy's dad.

01:22:56.659 --> 01:22:58.960
Is he in there? Oh, yeah, yeah. Tell me about

01:22:58.960 --> 01:23:01.079
what's going on with Jimmy. Oh, yeah, what room

01:23:01.079 --> 01:23:03.399
is he in? Okay, oh, yeah, diabetic. Okay, good,

01:23:03.479 --> 01:23:06.109
good, good, good, and hang up. And then I go

01:23:06.109 --> 01:23:08.390
over to the microphone. I'm like, as the kid,

01:23:08.449 --> 01:23:10.829
dude, was that my dad? Was that Jimmy? Dude,

01:23:10.970 --> 01:23:13.930
don't, that's not my dad. Like, he tried to kill

01:23:13.930 --> 01:23:16.229
me. I got a restraining order against him. And

01:23:16.229 --> 01:23:20.210
so the kid's 18, so he's an adult. But to have

01:23:20.210 --> 01:23:23.149
these students process in real time, oh, shit.

01:23:23.850 --> 01:23:26.170
I shouldn't have given that information. Now

01:23:26.170 --> 01:23:28.149
what do I do? So now I wait to see, do they call

01:23:28.149 --> 01:23:30.470
security? How do, what parameters do they put

01:23:30.470 --> 01:23:33.029
in place? Like, it's okay to make that mistake.

01:23:33.760 --> 01:23:37.560
Now you have to fix what you made. And I got

01:23:37.560 --> 01:23:40.819
more enjoyment discussing the gray area than

01:23:40.819 --> 01:23:42.859
the black and white, which I think goes back

01:23:42.859 --> 01:23:44.659
to what you said. I don't think it's done enough.

01:23:45.239 --> 01:23:46.859
Yeah. Well, I think that's where the critical

01:23:46.859 --> 01:23:49.039
thinking happens too, whether it's that kind

01:23:49.039 --> 01:23:52.680
of scenario or just any call. And again, this

01:23:52.680 --> 01:23:56.020
being shackled by the fear of litigation is the

01:23:56.020 --> 01:23:58.500
enemy of critical thinking. I had an amazing,

01:23:58.699 --> 01:24:04.060
medically amazing call. This young woman, clearly

01:24:04.060 --> 01:24:06.739
a multitude of drugs that she'd ingested were

01:24:06.739 --> 01:24:09.640
on the way you know lights and sirens gave her

01:24:09.640 --> 01:24:13.899
narcan um and in this very short transport every

01:24:13.899 --> 01:24:17.479
body fluid that could came out of every orifice

01:24:17.479 --> 01:24:20.640
that it could come out of at that point so i'm

01:24:20.640 --> 01:24:22.739
just cleaning up red bagging all kinds of stuff

01:24:22.739 --> 01:24:25.760
as we're trying to go there but um ultimately

01:24:25.760 --> 01:24:29.539
what happened is she was actually in ketone acidosis

01:24:30.160 --> 01:24:34.340
Um, so the cruise moles kept her alive from the

01:24:34.340 --> 01:24:37.600
respiratory suppression of the opiates. So medically

01:24:37.600 --> 01:24:40.319
it was an amazing case. So you, you, you address

01:24:40.319 --> 01:24:42.539
one. Okay. Now, but I've still got a bunch of

01:24:42.539 --> 01:24:45.220
things going on, but if you're a cookbook medic,

01:24:45.340 --> 01:24:47.140
you're like, all right, check. I did it. And

01:24:47.140 --> 01:24:49.939
now, you know, now you're done. So, uh, yeah,

01:24:50.020 --> 01:24:53.119
I mean, just, just the ability to think laterally,

01:24:53.140 --> 01:24:55.180
not only on, on the medical side, but this, the

01:24:55.180 --> 01:24:57.380
compassion side, I've made mistakes. I've been

01:24:57.380 --> 01:24:59.859
too callous on calls with family around. Sure.

01:24:59.920 --> 01:25:03.079
The frustration. Yeah, exactly. But, but yeah,

01:25:03.100 --> 01:25:04.619
I don't even know what was going with that, but

01:25:04.619 --> 01:25:07.119
I think it's just important to, to understand,

01:25:07.239 --> 01:25:10.159
you know, to, to be taught to think laterally

01:25:10.159 --> 01:25:13.619
rather than this very rigid algorithm that you're

01:25:13.619 --> 01:25:15.600
taught by, you know, whatever it is, your powers

01:25:15.600 --> 01:25:19.279
clause or your ACLS. Yeah. So I have this thing,

01:25:19.279 --> 01:25:22.380
whenever I oriented new staff members, flight

01:25:22.380 --> 01:25:25.670
nurses or medics or whatever is. it's a concept

01:25:25.670 --> 01:25:27.670
that if you're confident in your competence,

01:25:28.010 --> 01:25:30.710
you can pay attention to the small things. So,

01:25:30.810 --> 01:25:32.489
and that's one thing when somebody asked me,

01:25:32.510 --> 01:25:33.989
like, you know, what do you do when you roll

01:25:33.989 --> 01:25:36.250
up on scene? The first thing I do, I don't care

01:25:36.250 --> 01:25:38.970
what it is. I slow my step down to a half step.

01:25:39.569 --> 01:25:42.470
I walk up and I look for the most scared person

01:25:42.470 --> 01:25:45.310
in that room on that scene. And I go up to, I

01:25:45.310 --> 01:25:47.109
know I can intubate the patient. I know I'm going

01:25:47.109 --> 01:25:48.829
to get a line. I know I'm going to do that medically,

01:25:48.930 --> 01:25:51.329
but I go up to him. I'm like, you did a great

01:25:51.329 --> 01:25:54.750
job. Thank you. Thank you for whatever. You know,

01:25:54.789 --> 01:25:57.430
you did a good job. The ET2 is in the anus. It's

01:25:57.430 --> 01:25:59.329
at 22 with the sphincter. We're going to put

01:25:59.329 --> 01:26:01.149
it in the airway. Trauma center is weird today,

01:26:01.270 --> 01:26:04.770
but whatever the case is. And just like now I

01:26:04.770 --> 01:26:07.829
control the room. Now I control and I can see

01:26:07.829 --> 01:26:09.689
where, and once you take that high level stress

01:26:09.689 --> 01:26:12.710
person down, everything settles down a little

01:26:12.710 --> 01:26:16.729
bit. And now it's a time to move smoothly, which

01:26:16.729 --> 01:26:21.850
is faster and better. And one of the calls we

01:26:21.850 --> 01:26:25.229
had, it was a partner and I, Scott, we worked

01:26:25.229 --> 01:26:27.470
very well together. We flew out for a motorcycle

01:26:27.470 --> 01:26:29.789
accident and we had an Orientia new flight nurse.

01:26:30.010 --> 01:26:32.229
And we get on the grounds in Hernando County

01:26:32.229 --> 01:26:36.550
and we get in the back of the rig and they got

01:26:36.550 --> 01:26:41.350
like an alternate airway in. But the medic is

01:26:41.350 --> 01:26:45.010
there just white as a ghost. And I paralyzed

01:26:45.010 --> 01:26:47.189
him like he was so combative. I paralyzed him.

01:26:47.189 --> 01:26:48.810
I couldn't, I just put the supraglottic in. Is

01:26:48.810 --> 01:26:51.430
that okay? Like I paralyzed him. And our flight

01:26:51.430 --> 01:26:54.090
nurse is down there, the orientee, and he's getting

01:26:54.090 --> 01:26:56.390
the airway and sucking it out and putting the

01:26:56.390 --> 01:26:59.489
tube down and he gets it in. And, you know, Scott

01:26:59.489 --> 01:27:02.029
and I are, we're taking the whole situation.

01:27:02.149 --> 01:27:04.649
Again, lateral thinking. And I spoke with the

01:27:04.649 --> 01:27:06.409
medics. He did the right thing. That's the right

01:27:06.409 --> 01:27:08.670
call to make, you know, preventing secondary

01:27:08.670 --> 01:27:10.909
injuries. You got an airway in, we'll get a permanent

01:27:10.909 --> 01:27:13.159
one. That's fine. It's okay that you paralyzed

01:27:13.159 --> 01:27:16.279
and sedated that patient. Good job. So we get

01:27:16.279 --> 01:27:18.199
back. We're debriefing with this new nurse. And

01:27:18.199 --> 01:27:21.020
he said, yes, the tube. I got the tube. I'm like,

01:27:21.039 --> 01:27:23.000
dude, that's your job. Like you did your job.

01:27:23.359 --> 01:27:25.159
That's your job. You missed the most important

01:27:25.159 --> 01:27:28.939
part of that call was how afraid and scared that

01:27:28.939 --> 01:27:30.579
medic was that they made the wrong decision.

01:27:31.020 --> 01:27:33.399
And they just needed someone to verify that they

01:27:33.399 --> 01:27:36.119
did the right course of action. Even if it wasn't

01:27:36.119 --> 01:27:39.100
perfect, it was right. And we as a team can make

01:27:39.100 --> 01:27:42.199
it back. You totally missed that. And that was

01:27:42.199 --> 01:27:44.420
the educational opportunity of that call, not

01:27:44.420 --> 01:27:46.779
putting a tube between the cords in the hole

01:27:46.779 --> 01:27:49.439
closest to the nose. I'm glad you did that. That's

01:27:49.439 --> 01:27:51.260
what we're training for. But this is the bigger

01:27:51.260 --> 01:27:53.800
picture, taking in that, what you said, just

01:27:53.800 --> 01:27:56.159
lateral thinking, looking around and going, okay,

01:27:56.199 --> 01:27:58.659
what needs to be taken in on this? That's not

01:27:58.659 --> 01:28:01.859
necessarily linear algorithmic to a patient.

01:28:02.899 --> 01:28:06.180
Absolutely. Well, kind of shifting the conversation

01:28:06.180 --> 01:28:09.920
a little bit. As you progress through your career,

01:28:10.100 --> 01:28:12.659
when did you start writing? Was that early on

01:28:12.659 --> 01:28:14.340
in your life or was it something that you kind

01:28:14.340 --> 01:28:17.939
of learned into later? So everything's on a bet.

01:28:18.479 --> 01:28:21.699
I have trouble saying no. So when I was stopped

01:28:21.699 --> 01:28:24.279
working for VitaCare, there was a nurse friend

01:28:24.279 --> 01:28:27.640
of mine and she was down in New Orleans. And

01:28:27.640 --> 01:28:32.279
her friend was an editor and asked her to write

01:28:32.279 --> 01:28:36.020
a trauma textbook. And she's like, I don't have

01:28:36.020 --> 01:28:38.210
time for that. It's not my specialty. So she

01:28:38.210 --> 01:28:40.210
calls me up and I went back to flying full time

01:28:40.210 --> 01:28:41.590
at this point. She's like, Eric, do you want

01:28:41.590 --> 01:28:45.649
to write a book? Sure. Okay. What is it? So I've

01:28:45.649 --> 01:28:47.289
never written a textbook before. I've written

01:28:47.289 --> 01:28:50.109
journal articles. I've written, you know, chapters

01:28:50.109 --> 01:28:54.069
of books, but never an entire book cover to cover.

01:28:54.989 --> 01:28:57.510
She goes, it's a 19 chapter textbook on trauma.

01:28:58.609 --> 01:29:02.630
Here's the editor. And I'm like, okay. I had

01:29:02.630 --> 01:29:06.140
no guidance, very little. And writing an evidence

01:29:06.140 --> 01:29:10.840
-based medical textbook is exhausting when you

01:29:10.840 --> 01:29:13.170
don't know what to do. you know i'm driving to

01:29:13.170 --> 01:29:15.329
the library the medical school i'm trying to

01:29:15.329 --> 01:29:17.390
and i realized there's easier ways to do this

01:29:17.390 --> 01:29:19.270
i can do a lot of this online i need to get more

01:29:19.270 --> 01:29:21.010
up -to -date research i need to get the evidence

01:29:21.010 --> 01:29:24.130
so once i figured that out but then okay i got

01:29:24.130 --> 01:29:25.729
these three chapters in and then i'm dealing

01:29:25.729 --> 01:29:28.609
with you know content editor copyright editor

01:29:28.609 --> 01:29:32.210
and then they have peer reviewers so i'm on chapter

01:29:32.210 --> 01:29:34.569
five i'm getting chapters one two and three back

01:29:34.569 --> 01:29:39.319
it was I'm trying to get permissions for photos

01:29:39.319 --> 01:29:42.939
I want in the book that underscore whatever topic

01:29:42.939 --> 01:29:45.020
I'm talking about. I'm trying to get permissions

01:29:45.020 --> 01:29:47.220
for like the Wong Baker chart. Like I have to

01:29:47.220 --> 01:29:49.180
get in touch with her and the fees for that.

01:29:49.260 --> 01:29:53.420
And just like I vowed I would never, ever, ever

01:29:53.420 --> 01:29:59.039
do it again. Never. So 12 textbooks later. But

01:29:59.039 --> 01:30:02.829
once I finished that. Like, it was awesome. Like,

01:30:02.850 --> 01:30:06.029
that's cool. Like, I wrote a book. And then they

01:30:06.029 --> 01:30:08.449
asked me to write smaller books. And then I realized

01:30:08.449 --> 01:30:11.149
if I take my own pictures, I don't need to get

01:30:11.149 --> 01:30:13.869
permissions. You know, if I can streamline the

01:30:13.869 --> 01:30:16.010
way. I got it down to the point where the last

01:30:16.010 --> 01:30:19.270
book I wrote, I was negotiating the contract

01:30:19.270 --> 01:30:21.289
price on it. It was another trauma textbook.

01:30:21.630 --> 01:30:27.109
This one was 19 chapters also. And as I'm negotiating

01:30:27.109 --> 01:30:29.520
the contract over the weekend. They gave me another

01:30:29.520 --> 01:30:31.680
book on pediatric abusive head trauma that I

01:30:31.680 --> 01:30:34.420
did in two days. I gave that back to them because

01:30:34.420 --> 01:30:38.319
I can create my own charts. I know how to work

01:30:38.319 --> 01:30:41.899
the system now. Then that final book from signing

01:30:41.899 --> 01:30:45.340
the contract until I had it in hand was six months.

01:30:46.020 --> 01:30:49.000
That's pretty cool. I put my kids in the book.

01:30:49.079 --> 01:30:52.399
I put coworkers in the book. I had a lot of fun

01:30:52.399 --> 01:30:57.439
with it. I took my own photos. if you don't know

01:30:57.439 --> 01:30:59.579
how to do it it's taxing but once you do know

01:30:59.579 --> 01:31:02.460
how to do it it's it's really fun you know you

01:31:02.460 --> 01:31:05.420
get into a rhythm um and then the one thing i'd

01:31:05.420 --> 01:31:07.239
say to peer reviewers have you ever been a peer

01:31:07.239 --> 01:31:12.760
reviewer james oh no no i haven't be kind because

01:31:12.760 --> 01:31:15.079
in about chapter three the peer reviewers are

01:31:15.079 --> 01:31:18.520
i know more than this person you know unanimously

01:31:18.520 --> 01:31:21.640
and then there's like little digs it's just it's

01:31:21.640 --> 01:31:23.949
it's empiric evidence You may not have ordered

01:31:23.949 --> 01:31:26.649
it that way. I might have used an Oxford comma.

01:31:26.890 --> 01:31:29.210
You didn't, you know, it's, it becomes, it's

01:31:29.210 --> 01:31:31.369
not a tit for tat. This is, it's a, it's a holistic

01:31:31.369 --> 01:31:33.170
thing. So be kind if you're going to do peer

01:31:33.170 --> 01:31:36.210
editing, peer reviewing. So, but that's how I

01:31:36.210 --> 01:31:38.229
got into writing. It was just literally, I can't

01:31:38.229 --> 01:31:41.890
say no. So what about what you're doing now though?

01:31:41.970 --> 01:31:45.829
So the children of fallen first responders and

01:31:45.829 --> 01:31:48.130
people in the medical profession, how did that

01:31:48.130 --> 01:31:50.710
idea come about? Was there an origin story? Then

01:31:50.710 --> 01:31:53.779
let's talk about what you've created. So I would

01:31:53.779 --> 01:31:56.140
love to say that there was this beautiful moment

01:31:56.140 --> 01:31:59.859
where it all culminated. It really, I was sitting

01:31:59.859 --> 01:32:02.060
at a stoplight and I'm looking at this mother

01:32:02.060 --> 01:32:05.260
and her baby. And in my mind, she was a spouse

01:32:05.260 --> 01:32:07.380
of a first responder. I'm like, yeah, we fucked

01:32:07.380 --> 01:32:09.760
up our world. Like there's gotta be some point

01:32:09.760 --> 01:32:11.399
that that kid's gonna look at mom and go, why

01:32:11.399 --> 01:32:15.060
isn't dad home tonight? Or why is mom not home

01:32:15.060 --> 01:32:18.079
tonight? And not every profession does that.

01:32:18.420 --> 01:32:20.039
And then there's a lot of professions that do

01:32:20.039 --> 01:32:21.680
that that don't get the recognition for that.

01:32:22.869 --> 01:32:24.609
You have to – how do you answer that question?

01:32:24.729 --> 01:32:27.590
So then I'm like, you know what? I got some downtime,

01:32:27.810 --> 01:32:31.869
and I got unbridled ADHD. So let me buy a – I

01:32:31.869 --> 01:32:34.029
saw a YouTube video on how to make a children's

01:32:34.029 --> 01:32:38.409
book, and I had a lot of trouble. like trying

01:32:38.409 --> 01:32:40.850
to create characters i'm using like ai to do

01:32:40.850 --> 01:32:43.529
the illustrations and it wouldn't be consistent

01:32:43.529 --> 01:32:46.210
and then i'm like well it's a caucasian family

01:32:46.210 --> 01:32:48.310
then why isn't it an african -american family

01:32:48.310 --> 01:32:51.029
why isn't it you know why isn't it diverse so

01:32:51.029 --> 01:32:53.149
then i i got canva that i'm working with them

01:32:53.149 --> 01:32:55.970
like in looking through characters i'm like i'll

01:32:55.970 --> 01:32:59.369
make them bears like they're bears what's the

01:32:59.369 --> 01:33:01.569
flack i'm gonna get why isn't it a panda they're

01:33:01.569 --> 01:33:04.130
bears i throw a tie on one it's a dad i throw

01:33:04.130 --> 01:33:06.550
a bow on one it's a mom you know it's that easy

01:33:07.319 --> 01:33:09.039
but that takes that out of it and then i just

01:33:09.039 --> 01:33:13.239
create the scenes and and just talked about you

01:33:13.239 --> 01:33:15.399
know what would what would that first responder

01:33:15.399 --> 01:33:18.300
want their kid to know at night yes i think about

01:33:18.300 --> 01:33:20.920
you you know i have a picture of you you know

01:33:20.920 --> 01:33:22.500
i used to have pictures of my kids on my flight

01:33:22.500 --> 01:33:26.079
helmet like it's i do think about you even if

01:33:26.079 --> 01:33:29.380
it's the worst call or something that i wish

01:33:29.380 --> 01:33:32.359
i was there to help with homework like it it

01:33:32.359 --> 01:33:35.479
you're there so and this is what that our mom

01:33:35.479 --> 01:33:41.180
does in a nice way. It's always helpful. Even

01:33:41.180 --> 01:33:44.140
in the book for law enforcement, there's no guns.

01:33:44.579 --> 01:33:47.260
There's no on the belt. There's nothing. It's

01:33:47.260 --> 01:33:51.500
always the helpful side of it. And we see this

01:33:51.500 --> 01:33:55.079
in you. So I wrote those books and a friend of

01:33:55.079 --> 01:33:59.140
mine out of Broward Sheriff's Office, Chief Heath

01:33:59.140 --> 01:34:02.119
Clark. So he was running the aviation side and

01:34:02.119 --> 01:34:05.220
he calls me and he's like, hey, there's this

01:34:05.220 --> 01:34:09.409
lady down here. Dawn Witherspoon, she runs the

01:34:09.409 --> 01:34:13.270
Fort Paul Foundation. She really helps first

01:34:13.270 --> 01:34:16.130
responders and EMS, particularly EMS. Her husband

01:34:16.130 --> 01:34:18.010
was killed in the line of duty. He was a paramedic

01:34:18.010 --> 01:34:20.970
down there, hit by a drunk driver. And she wants

01:34:20.970 --> 01:34:25.289
to know if you'll collaborate. Why would I say

01:34:25.289 --> 01:34:31.310
no to that? And oddly, I did write a book about

01:34:31.310 --> 01:34:35.130
line of duty death. But just a cursory, just

01:34:35.130 --> 01:34:38.300
to kind of... I think something needs to be addressed,

01:34:38.460 --> 01:34:41.000
but why would I want to sell a book like that?

01:34:41.220 --> 01:34:43.579
I don't have an outlet for that. It's macabre,

01:34:43.699 --> 01:34:47.739
but it's also therapeutic. But anyway, so I call

01:34:47.739 --> 01:34:50.220
this woman Dawn, and then literally 20 minutes

01:34:50.220 --> 01:34:53.680
later, I said, send me what you want to relay

01:34:53.680 --> 01:34:56.560
in these books. What themes do you want? She's

01:34:56.560 --> 01:34:57.960
like, I want the theme that there's an extended

01:34:57.960 --> 01:35:00.979
family, that this EMS community, they're always

01:35:00.979 --> 01:35:03.760
part of them, that there's going to be part of

01:35:03.760 --> 01:35:07.310
their parent. that's with him some way or another.

01:35:08.010 --> 01:35:13.550
So I took her themes and wrote them out, wrote

01:35:13.550 --> 01:35:18.130
the book, and then created the imagery and the

01:35:18.130 --> 01:35:22.350
illustrations with the Canva. And oddly, very

01:35:22.350 --> 01:35:27.829
therapeutic for me to go through that. And like

01:35:27.829 --> 01:35:30.670
you, I've lost a lot of friends in this career,

01:35:30.829 --> 01:35:35.500
too many. More to suicide than accidents in line

01:35:35.500 --> 01:35:39.960
of duty. But this was great. So then, you know,

01:35:39.960 --> 01:35:42.500
I put her daughter's name in the book because

01:35:42.500 --> 01:35:44.720
she wanted something for her daughter. So it

01:35:44.720 --> 01:35:48.680
was her daughter was the character. And so I

01:35:48.680 --> 01:35:52.100
gave her that book and she loved it. And then

01:35:52.100 --> 01:35:56.220
an airplane went down. She's like, we have to

01:35:56.220 --> 01:35:58.119
do a book for the airplane people for flight.

01:35:58.859 --> 01:36:02.380
So I said, you're right. fix the book around

01:36:02.380 --> 01:36:06.859
and then in between this i get a instagram message

01:36:06.859 --> 01:36:09.399
from a guy who's a state trooper in illinois

01:36:09.399 --> 01:36:12.760
who runs a got your six foundation and he's like

01:36:12.760 --> 01:36:15.979
hey i came across your book like i have this

01:36:15.979 --> 01:36:19.119
where i help fall in state troopers families

01:36:19.119 --> 01:36:22.239
you know i lost two really good friends can you

01:36:22.239 --> 01:36:24.680
this book is great but it doesn't quite work

01:36:24.680 --> 01:36:28.460
can you rewrite it or say so let's just start

01:36:28.460 --> 01:36:31.899
anew so wrote a whole new story for him addressing

01:36:31.899 --> 01:36:35.619
that and he's like well you know the part of

01:36:35.619 --> 01:36:37.840
your book says you know like in the back there's

01:36:37.840 --> 01:36:39.880
some pages that they can draw pictures of dad

01:36:39.880 --> 01:36:42.239
at work or mom at work or pictures or photos

01:36:42.239 --> 01:36:45.659
of me and my dad or me and my mom he's like this

01:36:45.659 --> 01:36:50.779
baby was wasn't born when they died so he took

01:36:50.779 --> 01:36:55.600
that out you know just so that was very different

01:36:55.600 --> 01:37:01.119
for me um because And these foundations take

01:37:01.119 --> 01:37:04.180
the books. There's no charge for them. They donate

01:37:04.180 --> 01:37:08.060
them to these families. And I wrote him. I don't

01:37:08.060 --> 01:37:11.840
really know. You don't see the back of, are they

01:37:11.840 --> 01:37:14.920
helping? Is it good? And then I get a text from

01:37:14.920 --> 01:37:17.300
someone. He asked to remain anonymous and said,

01:37:17.479 --> 01:37:20.319
this is a picture of this child who lost their

01:37:20.319 --> 01:37:24.359
parent. And this is the first time they wanted

01:37:24.359 --> 01:37:29.420
to talk about it through the book. the wife called

01:37:29.420 --> 01:37:32.439
me crying because now it's a nighttime ritual

01:37:32.439 --> 01:37:36.779
um the fallen flight you know the helicopter

01:37:36.779 --> 01:37:39.460
recently like the books were presented to the

01:37:39.460 --> 01:37:42.579
flight crews and the honor guard all signed them

01:37:42.579 --> 01:37:45.119
and they wanted more and more people to sign

01:37:45.119 --> 01:37:47.539
them and so they asked if i would add more pages

01:37:47.539 --> 01:37:50.039
to the book for for people to write you know

01:37:50.039 --> 01:37:53.380
so this whole thing has taken off and like i

01:37:53.380 --> 01:37:55.739
got goosebumps talking about it because like

01:37:55.739 --> 01:37:59.409
i get no benefit out of this but to know that

01:37:59.409 --> 01:38:02.010
it's helped people i mean like your books they're

01:38:02.010 --> 01:38:05.329
they're words they're your emotions but until

01:38:05.329 --> 01:38:09.989
you see an impact of what that does it's just

01:38:09.989 --> 01:38:12.789
awesome like it's awesome you know i i don't

01:38:12.789 --> 01:38:16.810
know what else to say i i'm very happy that they

01:38:16.810 --> 01:38:18.890
reached out and allowed me to be part of this

01:38:18.890 --> 01:38:23.289
um even if it's out in anonymity they're they're

01:38:23.289 --> 01:38:26.310
out there you know it helps it helps it's amazing

01:38:26.890 --> 01:38:32.630
You mentioned earlier about your family losing

01:38:32.630 --> 01:38:34.949
the breadwinner when you kind of transitioned

01:38:34.949 --> 01:38:37.909
out of the home and then obviously losing people

01:38:37.909 --> 01:38:41.289
and then all the calls that you've had and then

01:38:41.289 --> 01:38:44.409
this writing being somewhat cathartic. When you

01:38:44.409 --> 01:38:47.470
reflect back now, what have been your lows and

01:38:47.470 --> 01:38:49.729
what have helped you kind of climb out of that

01:38:49.729 --> 01:38:58.430
dark place? I think. One, my wife is a nurse.

01:38:58.970 --> 01:39:04.529
And so she's never worked flight or paramedicine.

01:39:04.529 --> 01:39:07.970
She's done recovery and open heart. But having

01:39:07.970 --> 01:39:11.250
a medical background where I can say X, Y, and

01:39:11.250 --> 01:39:18.930
Z, she understands that. Huge, huge. co -workers

01:39:18.930 --> 01:39:21.729
and friends, more the co -workers that are my

01:39:21.729 --> 01:39:24.829
friends. You did a podcast, I think, way back

01:39:24.829 --> 01:39:28.189
in the 300s with Ray Norton. Yes. And Janelle.

01:39:28.430 --> 01:39:31.250
So Ray and I were partners for many years. And,

01:39:31.250 --> 01:39:35.510
you know, Ray and I were the A -team, man. And

01:39:35.510 --> 01:39:40.970
Ray is very open about, you know, the impact

01:39:40.970 --> 01:39:44.310
it's had on him, the careers. So the highs and

01:39:44.310 --> 01:39:46.979
lows have been shared. And I think that's important

01:39:46.979 --> 01:39:53.239
to understand that, you know, you're going, the

01:39:53.239 --> 01:39:55.399
bad calls, somebody's worst day of their life

01:39:55.399 --> 01:39:58.119
and their family, you're part of that. Your team

01:39:58.119 --> 01:40:01.279
is part of that. It's okay to sit with your team

01:40:01.279 --> 01:40:05.680
and say, that was fucked up, right? Like, you

01:40:05.680 --> 01:40:08.359
understand that, that wasn't normal. And then

01:40:08.359 --> 01:40:12.060
we'll crack a bad joke about it. But then, like,

01:40:12.100 --> 01:40:14.800
it's so important. lately and this is going to

01:40:14.800 --> 01:40:17.859
sound silly what helps me is talking to a lot

01:40:17.859 --> 01:40:20.739
of my friends even they're all retired none of

01:40:20.739 --> 01:40:23.380
us are flying well some of them are but the power

01:40:23.380 --> 01:40:26.880
of dude i love you man like we've trauma bonded

01:40:26.880 --> 01:40:29.119
over a lot of things and i really need you to

01:40:29.119 --> 01:40:32.579
know i love you like a brother like a family

01:40:32.579 --> 01:40:36.699
member like you've helped me and it's okay the

01:40:36.699 --> 01:40:40.739
bro code is gone that the ability to to share

01:40:40.739 --> 01:40:44.619
that emotion it helps me through the lows just

01:40:44.619 --> 01:40:47.180
to know that that they're they're there for me

01:40:47.180 --> 01:40:50.939
you know and it's not the daily call but there's

01:40:50.939 --> 01:40:53.220
calls you know how are you today what's going

01:40:53.220 --> 01:40:56.979
on more importantly what can i do to help and

01:40:56.979 --> 01:40:59.960
those have gotten me through the lows it's the

01:40:59.960 --> 01:41:06.300
family it's the friends or educating people that

01:41:06.300 --> 01:41:08.640
when you go up and this is not my words i've

01:41:08.640 --> 01:41:10.439
heard it when you ask me tell me about the worst

01:41:10.439 --> 01:41:12.810
call of your life Well, you're asking me to relive

01:41:12.810 --> 01:41:15.829
really horrific moments, and what you want to

01:41:15.829 --> 01:41:18.170
hear is the blood and the gore where the most

01:41:18.170 --> 01:41:21.350
horrific calls in my life took such an emotional

01:41:21.350 --> 01:41:26.210
toll on me. That, yes, there might be blood and

01:41:26.210 --> 01:41:28.449
gore associated with it, but when I'm walking

01:41:28.449 --> 01:41:32.430
down the street and I get glimpses of this tarp

01:41:32.430 --> 01:41:34.369
that blows open from the wind and there's eight

01:41:34.369 --> 01:41:37.010
or nine dead children, I'm not touching because

01:41:37.010 --> 01:41:39.170
there's nothing I can do for them. It's haunting.

01:41:41.739 --> 01:41:45.920
So, you know, educating your loved ones that

01:41:45.920 --> 01:41:48.859
there's going to be moments that I might be like,

01:41:48.920 --> 01:41:55.979
oh, and when's the moment you knew? I think it

01:41:55.979 --> 01:42:01.579
affected me. I'm asking you that, James. Do you

01:42:01.579 --> 01:42:03.520
know the moment? Like, was there a defining moment

01:42:03.520 --> 01:42:08.539
where you said, yep, this affected me? I always

01:42:08.539 --> 01:42:11.619
go back to this one we had, and it was early

01:42:11.619 --> 01:42:15.319
in my career, and it was interesting because

01:42:15.319 --> 01:42:17.600
that was the one that took my breath away, put

01:42:17.600 --> 01:42:21.140
it that way. Now, it didn't stop me from moving

01:42:21.140 --> 01:42:24.979
forward, but we had a horrendous car crash. The

01:42:24.979 --> 01:42:28.479
passenger was killed in the front. I don't want

01:42:28.479 --> 01:42:31.079
you to relive the story. I'm asking you now what

01:42:31.079 --> 01:42:33.060
I just said not to. I guess you're more than

01:42:33.060 --> 01:42:35.109
welcome. I would love to hear the story. But

01:42:35.109 --> 01:42:37.289
is there a moment in your life where you realized,

01:42:37.550 --> 01:42:42.250
yep, I'm not on a call, but this affected me.

01:42:42.289 --> 01:42:44.210
And I would love to hear the call if you choose

01:42:44.210 --> 01:42:46.770
to share it. I'm not asking you to relive that

01:42:46.770 --> 01:42:48.829
moment again. Yeah, no, I mean, this is what's

01:42:48.829 --> 01:42:52.050
weird is I've been okay. And again, I think this

01:42:52.050 --> 01:42:54.869
is so important to people to talk about. Some

01:42:54.869 --> 01:42:58.170
of us had stuff happen when we were young that

01:42:58.170 --> 01:43:01.649
was shoved down by circumstance and buried. And

01:43:01.649 --> 01:43:05.560
some of us were just. super fortunate that what

01:43:05.560 --> 01:43:07.220
happened when we were younger, there was some

01:43:07.220 --> 01:43:09.439
other things that helped you start working through

01:43:09.439 --> 01:43:11.819
it at the beginning. And that's the only difference

01:43:11.819 --> 01:43:13.840
between me and so many of these people that I've

01:43:13.840 --> 01:43:15.359
had on the show that have been in this deep,

01:43:15.439 --> 01:43:17.659
deep, dark place. The only thing. We're both

01:43:17.659 --> 01:43:19.619
people. We're both paramedics. We're both firefighters

01:43:19.619 --> 01:43:23.659
or cops or whatever it is. So it was a very long

01:43:23.659 --> 01:43:25.500
story short. It was a decapitated three -year

01:43:25.500 --> 01:43:28.500
-old. Actually, the engine company had covered

01:43:28.500 --> 01:43:30.479
the body. So it was actually really just this

01:43:30.479 --> 01:43:33.949
distorted silhouette and then the little... legs

01:43:33.949 --> 01:43:37.369
poking out the bottom but where I had an insight

01:43:37.369 --> 01:43:41.149
into wow this is something that we carry is years

01:43:41.149 --> 01:43:44.489
later I was at Disney with my my wife I hate

01:43:44.489 --> 01:43:47.930
Disney but that's how much I love her um and

01:43:47.930 --> 01:43:50.369
uh it was so hot that someone had a blanket over

01:43:50.369 --> 01:43:53.350
their child and the same kind of little you know

01:43:53.350 --> 01:43:55.569
aged feet were poking out with the similar shoes

01:43:55.569 --> 01:43:59.510
and I had this wave of adrenaline this massive

01:43:59.510 --> 01:44:01.390
rush. And I told my wife, I'm like, babe, I just

01:44:01.390 --> 01:44:04.050
need to sit down for a sec. And that was it.

01:44:04.130 --> 01:44:08.409
So even then was that as, as, you know, they

01:44:08.409 --> 01:44:10.430
have the same magnitude as me not being able

01:44:10.430 --> 01:44:12.750
to sleep. Cause I keep getting these things replaying

01:44:12.750 --> 01:44:15.970
in my mind and the drinking. No, but that was

01:44:15.970 --> 01:44:18.369
just a real punch in the gut. Like, wow. It was

01:44:18.369 --> 01:44:21.289
almost, it gave me more compassion and empathy

01:44:21.289 --> 01:44:24.289
because I was like, wow, if I'm doing okay. And

01:44:24.289 --> 01:44:27.069
that flashback sucked that much. I can't imagine

01:44:27.069 --> 01:44:29.770
what it must be like to get it over and over

01:44:29.770 --> 01:44:31.710
and over again. That was around the time I was

01:44:31.710 --> 01:44:34.250
starting to be an advocate for all these things.

01:44:34.989 --> 01:44:37.569
I think I'd just transitioned out. So that was

01:44:37.569 --> 01:44:41.609
really where I realized, yeah, because up to

01:44:41.609 --> 01:44:43.670
that point, everything really was just in the

01:44:43.670 --> 01:44:46.850
back of my mind, even that burn patient and that

01:44:46.850 --> 01:44:49.510
horrific day. None of them bother me. None of

01:44:49.510 --> 01:44:53.579
them haunt me. But is it in there? Is it taking

01:44:53.579 --> 01:44:55.939
a toll? Of course it is because you can't see

01:44:55.939 --> 01:44:58.199
that shit and it not change you. And it's changed

01:44:58.199 --> 01:44:59.680
me. There's no question. But yeah, that was the

01:44:59.680 --> 01:45:02.420
real physiological gut punch where I was like,

01:45:02.500 --> 01:45:05.479
oh shit. Yeah, that's in there lurking. That's

01:45:05.479 --> 01:45:08.340
still in there. Thank you for sharing that. I

01:45:08.340 --> 01:45:11.859
guess that's, I think that's important. That's

01:45:11.859 --> 01:45:14.239
why I asked that because it does manifest in

01:45:14.239 --> 01:45:16.640
weird ways sometimes. And it's not always just

01:45:16.640 --> 01:45:18.899
what you said, that textbook, I'm not sleeping

01:45:18.899 --> 01:45:22.970
in this. oh okay i wasn't expecting that to come

01:45:22.970 --> 01:45:26.770
and yeah and what you're talking about is before

01:45:26.770 --> 01:45:28.970
about you know people being exposed at different

01:45:28.970 --> 01:45:32.390
ages you know i'm just under the philosophy of

01:45:32.390 --> 01:45:35.729
this everybody's broken everybody is some of

01:45:35.729 --> 01:45:40.189
us just have access to better glue and that is

01:45:40.189 --> 01:45:42.989
important the glue's there some of it got it

01:45:42.989 --> 01:45:45.649
earlier some of it got it later but everyone's

01:45:45.649 --> 01:45:47.750
a little bit broken and and the share of this

01:45:47.750 --> 01:45:52.670
helps underscore that So, man, yeah. Yeah, I

01:45:52.670 --> 01:45:55.210
agree 100%. And this is just it. I mean, the

01:45:55.210 --> 01:45:58.470
hope in the fact that there are tools out there,

01:45:58.489 --> 01:46:01.069
especially today as we sit here, everything from

01:46:01.069 --> 01:46:03.630
equine therapy through to psychedelics and everything

01:46:03.630 --> 01:46:06.970
in between, everyone's own personal toolbox is

01:46:06.970 --> 01:46:08.890
available to them. But you've got to give them

01:46:08.890 --> 01:46:10.510
hope. If they don't believe that they're going

01:46:10.510 --> 01:46:13.210
to get there, if the person who's gone to the

01:46:13.210 --> 01:46:14.949
doctor's office and they were just given statins

01:46:14.949 --> 01:46:16.390
and they didn't have a conversation about, hey,

01:46:16.449 --> 01:46:18.479
you know, you can reverse this. If you change

01:46:18.479 --> 01:46:20.680
the way you eat and move more, there's no hope.

01:46:20.760 --> 01:46:22.739
Like, oh, they told me I'm going to be on this

01:46:22.739 --> 01:46:26.000
forever. So getting people to understand that

01:46:26.000 --> 01:46:29.020
post -traumatic growth is a real thing and that

01:46:29.020 --> 01:46:31.180
you will be different, will always be different.

01:46:31.260 --> 01:46:34.140
You can't unsee the shit that we've seen, but

01:46:34.140 --> 01:46:36.640
you will be a stronger version of yourself. You

01:46:36.640 --> 01:46:38.640
will. And then you become a beacon of light for

01:46:38.640 --> 01:46:42.199
other people. And as that kind of... A parable

01:46:42.199 --> 01:46:45.180
goes, the guy's stuck in the hole and the doctor

01:46:45.180 --> 01:46:46.979
goes by and he asks him for help and he goes,

01:46:47.039 --> 01:46:48.699
oh, okay. And he writes him a prescription and

01:46:48.699 --> 01:46:50.819
throws it down there. And then the priest goes

01:46:50.819 --> 01:46:52.840
by and then he rips out a piece of the Bible

01:46:52.840 --> 01:46:55.420
and drops it in there. There you go. And then

01:46:55.420 --> 01:46:58.039
a guy goes by and he jumps in the hole and he's

01:46:58.039 --> 01:46:59.819
like, what are you doing? This is his friend.

01:46:59.899 --> 01:47:01.760
He jumps in the hole and he said, it's okay.

01:47:01.859 --> 01:47:04.460
I've been here before. I know the way out. This

01:47:04.460 --> 01:47:06.560
is the thing. That's what you become. You become

01:47:06.560 --> 01:47:08.939
the person that can help other people. So there's

01:47:08.939 --> 01:47:11.479
so much hope in that. And then understanding

01:47:11.479 --> 01:47:14.800
that, yeah, it doesn't matter what your own accumulation

01:47:14.800 --> 01:47:18.899
of tools is, you can start moving that way, but

01:47:18.899 --> 01:47:22.100
you have to believe that you can. It's awesome.

01:47:22.359 --> 01:47:26.779
That is a great personification of using that

01:47:26.779 --> 01:47:31.680
story. That's awesome. Yeah. It's a humbling

01:47:31.680 --> 01:47:36.760
career. Yeah. It is. But I mean, incredible human

01:47:36.760 --> 01:47:39.520
beings. This is why I've been out now almost

01:47:39.520 --> 01:47:42.159
seven years out of the job. This is why I'm fighting

01:47:42.159 --> 01:47:44.680
for them, because what a beautiful profession.

01:47:45.000 --> 01:47:47.239
I mean, they are arguably the real leaders that

01:47:47.239 --> 01:47:50.479
we need to be seeing front and center. So that's

01:47:50.479 --> 01:47:54.399
one of the I love educating and teaching for

01:47:54.399 --> 01:47:57.000
that for that element alone. And when you share

01:47:57.000 --> 01:47:59.199
that, it's OK. And you share the experiences.

01:47:59.659 --> 01:48:02.500
And if you're willing to share them and how you.

01:48:03.100 --> 01:48:05.300
cope with them or how you deal with them or who

01:48:05.300 --> 01:48:08.260
your support system is and help them identify

01:48:08.260 --> 01:48:12.100
that. It's really important. Absolutely. All

01:48:12.100 --> 01:48:13.600
right. Well, I want to transition to some closing

01:48:13.600 --> 01:48:15.380
questions and then we'll get to where people

01:48:15.380 --> 01:48:18.180
can find the books. Very first one, is there

01:48:18.180 --> 01:48:20.699
a book or are there books that you love to recommend?

01:48:20.920 --> 01:48:22.960
It can be related to our discussion today or

01:48:22.960 --> 01:48:35.520
completely unrelated. So, yes. So there's one

01:48:35.520 --> 01:48:39.899
called – let me get the exact title here. So

01:48:39.899 --> 01:48:43.380
excuse me for a second. It's Maxim's. It's from

01:48:43.380 --> 01:48:47.579
Tom Gordon. He is the Commandant of the Citadel.

01:48:48.979 --> 01:48:53.579
And I want to get the exact title for you. Marine

01:48:53.579 --> 01:48:57.880
Maxim's. So Tom is a friend of mine and was a

01:48:57.880 --> 01:49:02.359
neighbor, and he – uses kind of there's a lot

01:49:02.359 --> 01:49:04.000
of books out there from the military and special

01:49:04.000 --> 01:49:06.640
forces or whatever but what he uses is these

01:49:06.640 --> 01:49:10.279
little idioms and axioms throughout the the career

01:49:10.279 --> 01:49:13.840
and how to apply them in every day and i think

01:49:13.840 --> 01:49:15.859
that's important you know we can we can learn

01:49:15.859 --> 01:49:19.880
a lot from these militaristic mantras and and

01:49:19.880 --> 01:49:24.819
knowing that sometimes when you reframe what

01:49:24.819 --> 01:49:28.720
you're doing and you reframe it, that it's good

01:49:28.720 --> 01:49:32.100
for you. The challenge isn't always negative.

01:49:32.279 --> 01:49:34.279
There's a positivity that comes out of that.

01:49:34.439 --> 01:49:38.859
So that's a good one to have. I just don't really

01:49:38.859 --> 01:49:42.460
have a full library of stuff. I like to read

01:49:42.460 --> 01:49:46.460
a myriad of different things. A lot of it's geeky

01:49:46.460 --> 01:49:49.439
stuff. I read a lot of medical stuff. I wish

01:49:49.439 --> 01:49:56.869
I had more wisdom to... partake on that um i'm

01:49:56.869 --> 01:49:59.350
sorry i don't no no problem at all what about

01:49:59.350 --> 01:50:05.789
films and documentaries oh yeah uh the documentaries

01:50:05.789 --> 01:50:10.390
i like are the ones that just show um what we

01:50:10.390 --> 01:50:12.310
were talking about earlier like there there's

01:50:12.310 --> 01:50:14.670
there's a sensationalized view of things but

01:50:14.670 --> 01:50:17.770
when you peel back those layers and you see the

01:50:17.770 --> 01:50:20.270
motives and what's going on you know kind of

01:50:20.270 --> 01:50:24.470
behind those you know the everyday things i mean

01:50:24.470 --> 01:50:26.409
you can take it from and there are lots of different

01:50:26.409 --> 01:50:29.149
ones if you take it from you know uh you know

01:50:29.149 --> 01:50:31.810
serial killer ones and you look and you start

01:50:31.810 --> 01:50:34.449
looking at these different backstories and how

01:50:34.449 --> 01:50:39.109
to identify that uh upwards of you know these

01:50:39.109 --> 01:50:42.489
documentaries about say you know a tsunami and

01:50:42.489 --> 01:50:45.050
that coming through or the volcano eruptions

01:50:45.050 --> 01:50:47.989
and you see the real stories behind them and

01:50:47.989 --> 01:50:50.189
i like to see that true grit that comes out of

01:50:50.189 --> 01:50:52.810
it like you're in in in these cases and it's

01:50:52.810 --> 01:50:55.409
easy to sensationalize that but when you show

01:50:55.409 --> 01:50:57.949
the real people that are there during this this

01:50:57.949 --> 01:51:01.270
avalanche or there was one and you know the grit

01:51:01.270 --> 01:51:03.710
and determination to find that one and you think

01:51:03.710 --> 01:51:08.289
they're dead you know the the real human gut

01:51:08.289 --> 01:51:11.989
comes out like a you can't replicate that in

01:51:11.989 --> 01:51:15.390
a movie until you see that raw emotion come out

01:51:15.390 --> 01:51:17.750
and you know and they're choking up and you feel

01:51:17.750 --> 01:51:21.569
them you know at that the lowest point and how

01:51:21.569 --> 01:51:23.829
they overcame that like i love those type of

01:51:23.829 --> 01:51:26.909
documentaries and they're sadly associated with

01:51:26.909 --> 01:51:30.829
tragedy but i like that yeah i saw the avalanche

01:51:30.829 --> 01:51:33.609
one recently too it was incredible yeah really

01:51:33.609 --> 01:51:37.319
just yeah absolutely All right. Well, speaking

01:51:37.319 --> 01:51:39.659
of amazing people, is there a person that you'd

01:51:39.659 --> 01:51:42.039
recommend to come on this podcast as a guest

01:51:42.039 --> 01:51:44.800
to speak to the first responders, military and

01:51:44.800 --> 01:51:49.319
associated professions of the world? So I do.

01:51:50.319 --> 01:51:54.520
There's an old neighbor of mine. He is a retired

01:51:54.520 --> 01:52:00.180
SEAL Team 6 disabled veteran who I think has

01:52:00.180 --> 01:52:05.939
a phenomenal story. Very articulate. He's approachable.

01:52:06.119 --> 01:52:09.260
And more importantly to me, I mean, this man

01:52:09.260 --> 01:52:13.279
has overcome his time in the military and is

01:52:13.279 --> 01:52:21.180
so relatable. It's not easy transition to be

01:52:21.180 --> 01:52:24.500
there and then to come into a corporate world

01:52:24.500 --> 01:52:26.920
or regular world where you're not doing these

01:52:26.920 --> 01:52:29.560
sensational things every day. He does a very

01:52:29.560 --> 01:52:34.729
good job at it. His name is Dave Sears. I would

01:52:34.729 --> 01:52:38.430
recommend him. He's a very knowledgeable and

01:52:38.430 --> 01:52:41.930
well -spoken and he's got a lot of backstory.

01:52:42.310 --> 01:52:47.270
And he also applies that to his life, you know,

01:52:47.270 --> 01:52:50.989
and helps his kids and helps. He's just a very

01:52:50.989 --> 01:52:55.090
understanding man. You look at him and go, wow,

01:52:55.310 --> 01:52:59.090
I wouldn't have known. So I like that unassuming

01:52:59.090 --> 01:53:02.600
humbleness that people portray like that. Beautiful.

01:53:02.699 --> 01:53:04.199
I'd love to get him on if you're able to help

01:53:04.199 --> 01:53:07.579
them. Yeah, sure. I can do that. Fantastic. All

01:53:07.579 --> 01:53:10.520
right. The other one. No, please, please. Oh,

01:53:10.520 --> 01:53:12.739
I see. There's another guy, Ken Williams. Ken

01:53:12.739 --> 01:53:14.760
Williams was a pilot I flew with in Las Vegas.

01:53:15.060 --> 01:53:17.880
He used to fly for the movies, but he's also

01:53:17.880 --> 01:53:21.039
flown for Ventura County, and now he flies for

01:53:21.039 --> 01:53:24.520
L .A. County. He flies the Firehawk helicopters.

01:53:25.840 --> 01:53:28.000
Ken's had an amazing career over the last 30

01:53:28.000 --> 01:53:32.199
years. Ken saved my life. on more than one occasion

01:53:32.199 --> 01:53:35.659
but he i call him my hero for a reason he he

01:53:35.659 --> 01:53:38.939
saved my life in a helicopter um but you know

01:53:38.939 --> 01:53:41.420
i was able fortunate to go fly with him a few

01:53:41.420 --> 01:53:44.199
years ago out in la um that's another one that

01:53:44.199 --> 01:53:46.819
would i think be a great person to have on beautiful

01:53:46.819 --> 01:53:49.079
let's make that happen too i mean not only the

01:53:49.079 --> 01:53:51.319
the fire side but the movie side obviously i've

01:53:51.319 --> 01:53:55.560
got the the stunt connection too so yeah Awesome.

01:53:55.579 --> 01:53:57.340
All right. Well, then the last question before

01:53:57.340 --> 01:53:58.960
we make sure everyone knows where to find you

01:53:58.960 --> 01:54:03.140
in the books, what do you do to decompress? Oh,

01:54:03.300 --> 01:54:07.020
so I love to play music. I'm not great at playing

01:54:07.020 --> 01:54:09.199
music, but I like to play the guitar. I like

01:54:09.199 --> 01:54:12.640
to play the piano. And I just like to spend time

01:54:12.640 --> 01:54:14.840
with my family. I know that's a trite phrase,

01:54:15.020 --> 01:54:17.680
but my wife and I, my kids are grown and gone.

01:54:17.800 --> 01:54:20.520
I love my kids immensely. But now it's my wife

01:54:20.520 --> 01:54:23.140
and I and the two dogs and the power of just

01:54:23.140 --> 01:54:27.020
family. I think a lot of it can be taken for

01:54:27.020 --> 01:54:31.659
granted these days. We were affected by one of

01:54:31.659 --> 01:54:34.399
the hurricanes. So what you see here is the trailer

01:54:34.399 --> 01:54:36.039
we're living in while our home is still trying

01:54:36.039 --> 01:54:41.819
to be rebuilt. But it's okay. That stuff puts

01:54:41.819 --> 01:54:44.520
it in perspective. We decompress by understanding,

01:54:44.979 --> 01:54:47.760
yeah, it kind of sucks right now, but that's

01:54:47.760 --> 01:54:50.680
okay. There's a lot of people who have it worse,

01:54:50.800 --> 01:54:54.680
but we decompress by going for walks, by... playing

01:54:54.680 --> 01:54:57.779
with the dogs and just it's nothing profound

01:54:57.779 --> 01:55:00.760
you know i i wish once we get out of this situation

01:55:00.760 --> 01:55:03.399
we used to go for bike rides a lot it's just

01:55:03.399 --> 01:55:06.680
difficult to do it's difficult now to do what

01:55:06.680 --> 01:55:09.579
we used to do to decompress but uh we'll get

01:55:09.579 --> 01:55:11.880
back to it what's the timeline on getting your

01:55:11.880 --> 01:55:16.000
home built that's a fantastic question it's been

01:55:16.000 --> 01:55:20.279
a it's been six months since the storm a little

01:55:20.279 --> 01:55:24.520
bit more um it's been 160 days today since our

01:55:24.520 --> 01:55:27.340
contractor still hasn't gotten us a permit so

01:55:27.340 --> 01:55:30.859
our home is uh as of last week they finally cleaned

01:55:30.859 --> 01:55:35.159
out debris but there's no walls there's so if

01:55:35.159 --> 01:55:38.680
we get a permit hopefully maybe four months I

01:55:38.680 --> 01:55:42.520
don't know but it's it's a good it's humbling

01:55:42.520 --> 01:55:44.859
it's amazing how little you can get away with

01:55:44.859 --> 01:55:49.220
living um and then how little things can make

01:55:49.220 --> 01:55:51.739
such a big difference you know fortunate enough

01:55:51.739 --> 01:55:53.920
we have a pool it was disgusting it was full

01:55:53.920 --> 01:55:57.899
of seawater and crustaceans so we opted to take

01:55:57.899 --> 01:56:00.500
some money and get that pool fix and now every

01:56:00.500 --> 01:56:03.520
day we take a little moment bring the dogs in

01:56:03.520 --> 01:56:07.779
just to enjoy something that's not disaster when

01:56:07.779 --> 01:56:10.159
you look at it and just uh yeah it's good to

01:56:10.159 --> 01:56:14.300
reframe it's not all bad absolutely All right.

01:56:14.300 --> 01:56:16.340
Well, for people listening, where are the best

01:56:16.340 --> 01:56:18.479
places to find the books? And then what about

01:56:18.479 --> 01:56:21.180
yourself personally on any sort of social media

01:56:21.180 --> 01:56:24.840
or website? So the books are just on Amazon.

01:56:25.140 --> 01:56:28.439
You can type in Eric Usher, E -R -I -K, U -S

01:56:28.439 --> 01:56:30.960
-H -E -R, and it's all the kids' books on there.

01:56:31.079 --> 01:56:33.840
The medical books, they're outdated by now. Every

01:56:33.840 --> 01:56:38.239
three years, they'll need to be. Aside from the

01:56:38.239 --> 01:56:40.399
LinkedIn and Instagram account, I don't have

01:56:40.399 --> 01:56:46.159
any social media platforms. So, yeah, no, like

01:56:46.159 --> 01:56:49.140
I said, I'm just happy that, again, imposter

01:56:49.140 --> 01:56:53.439
syndrome to be on board here. But amazing that

01:56:53.439 --> 01:56:56.220
you asked me. Well, thank you so much, mate.

01:56:56.319 --> 01:56:58.340
It's been such an amazing conversation from,

01:56:58.399 --> 01:57:01.380
you know, obviously the volunteering in EMS,

01:57:01.539 --> 01:57:03.399
the nursing and then the medical innovations

01:57:03.399 --> 01:57:06.119
and the cadaver labs and the books. It's been

01:57:06.119 --> 01:57:08.260
incredible. So I want to thank you so, so much

01:57:08.260 --> 01:57:10.159
for being so generous with your time and coming

01:57:10.159 --> 01:57:12.890
on the Behind the Shield podcast today. I appreciate

01:57:12.890 --> 01:57:14.470
it. I look forward to finishing your book too,

01:57:14.529 --> 01:57:18.069
man. Keep it up. Good job, man. What you do is

01:57:18.069 --> 01:57:20.729
it needs to be done. So thank you for doing that.

01:57:21.350 --> 01:57:23.850
Very passionate about it too. It's awesome.