WEBVTT

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This episode is sponsored by 5 .11 Tactical,

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company, 5 .11 Tactical, You can listen to episode

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338 of the Behind the Shield podcast with the

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CEO Francisco Morales. Welcome to episode 417

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of Behind the Shield podcast. As always my name

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is James Gearing and this week it is my absolute

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honor to welcome on the show Paul DeGelder. Now

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Paul is a veteran of the Australian Army, the

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Australian Navy as a bomb disposal diver and

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it was during that time in a training incident

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he was attacked by a shark ultimately losing

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an arm and a leg. Being the epitome of resilience,

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he overcame that injury physically and mentally

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and returned to duty before transitioning out

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and becoming one of the faces of Shark Week.

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So this is an incredibly powerful story. There

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are some real takeaways, including his near -death

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experience and how he found peace after that.

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Before we get to that conversation, please just

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take a moment, go to whichever app you listen

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to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback

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and leave a rating. Every five -star rating truly

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elevates this podcast, making it easier for others

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to find. And this is a free library for you,

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planet Earth. So all I ask in return is that

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you help share these incredible men and women's

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stories so I can get them to everyone else who

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needs to hear them. So with that being said,

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I introduce to you Paul DeGelder. Enjoy. Well,

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Paul, I want to start by saying thank you so

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much. I know you've had a crazy day today, so

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I really appreciate you coming on the podcast

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today. No dramas, mate. Thanks for inviting me.

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So where on planet Earth are we finding you today?

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I am at home in Marina del Rey, Los Angeles.

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Beautiful. That's a beautiful part of LA at least.

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Yeah, it's not too bad. My balcony doors look

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over a little marina beach and it's a pretty

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nice spot. There's no shops around here, so there

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was no rioting. Oh, really? They weren't tearing

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up the boats in the area? All right. Well, then,

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obviously, from your accent, you are not a native

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Californian. So let's start at the very beginning.

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Tell me where you were born and then also your

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family dynamic, what your parents did and how

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many siblings. I was born in a place called Mornington

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Peninsula. It's about an hour and a half south

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of Melbourne, a little seaside town known for

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horse racing and wine. I'm the oldest of four

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kids. There was me, my younger brother, two younger

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brothers, then my baby sister, and dad was a

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cop and mum was the traditional housewife. We

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stayed there until I was about 10 and then dad

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got posted and we moved to a place called Frankston,

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fondly referred to as Frankganistan because it

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had been... Very, very seedy areas. But we were

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only there for about a year. And then Dad got

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another posting with the Australian Bureau of

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Criminal Intelligence. And we shipped off another

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10 hours north to the capital of Australia, which

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is called Canberra. And so I spent most of my

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formative years there until I was about 21. Brilliant.

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Well, I want to get to Canberra in a second because

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I was there myself 20 years ago now, I think

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it was. Well, it was just an interesting moment.

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But before we do, so, you know, that's a very

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interesting profession that your dad did. Obviously,

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the audience listening, a lot of us are first

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responders and military. So, what was your dad's

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experience with that profession? Did he ever

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kind of sit down and talk to you about, you know,

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some of the stuff that he did? Nah, look, he

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comes from the old guard, mate, where you just

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get... taught to bury it down and not talk about

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it and not deal with it so i really didn't know

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anything about what he did i actually when um

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my um writer who helped me write the book No

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Time for Fear back in Australia, she interviewed

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my family and I actually found out more about

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my dad reading my own book than he ever told

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me. Like in Melbourne, he was known as the siege

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man because every time there was like hostages

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taken or some guy on a roof with a shotgun, he

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always managed to track them down or talk the

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weapon out of their hands or something like that.

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So I really didn't know much about his job at

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all except for it was. called the australian

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bureau of criminal intelligence they were posted

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in the telecom building up supposedly so that

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they could have access to people's phones um

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but yeah that's about it interesting well i when

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i was in canberra so i did i traveled i lived

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in manly you know by um sydney for a while and

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then did some traveling before i ended up getting

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a stunt job in japan and when i went to canberra

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the only way i could describe it was that the

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city was built for far more people than actually

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lived there. So it probably looked a lot like

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the pandemic cities that we see. So what was

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your experience growing up there? Yeah, it's

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not like many other places except for small country

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towns. And it is fundamentally a country town.

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It's just a very big one. It's really spread

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out. Basically, on Sunday, everything shut back

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when I was a kid. Everything. It was like a...

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ghost town you didn't see cars on the road it

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was very peculiar to look back on um and look

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dad was a swimming instructor in his spare time

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as well in the cops he held a lot of the um police

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olympic records for swimming and he had his own

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squad in melbourne and so a lot of the you know

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years From when I moved there, 10 to about 15

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was getting up early in the morning, going swimming

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training in an outdoor pool, even in the middle

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of winter where everything was frozen. Then training

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at another all boys Catholic school in the evenings.

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And, you know, that and school pretty much took

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up a lot of your time. And then you hit about

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15 and you start to discover girls and smoking.

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and drinking. I got bullied a lot all through

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my school life because I was short, I had big

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ears, I had a face full of freckles, and I wasn't

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that athletic anywhere outside of the swimming

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pool. I wasn't good at football. My dad was the

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coach sometimes as well, and I was the worst

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player on the team, so it must have been pretty

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embarrassing for me. I got picked on. I got bullied

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a lot. didn't like school at all it was just

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very stressful an all boys catholic school where

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i got bullied a lot my own football teammates

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would bully me um and then i um it at home it

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was very stressful as well dad wasn't around

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a lot and so mom was the disciplinarian and she

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was very hard on us as well especially me because

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i was the oldest and so it just it all got on

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top of me and i was I guess I was depressed and

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I started self -harming and I used to slash up

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my arms with an old hobby knife used for making

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model airplanes and stuff. And it wasn't like

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I wanted to kill myself or anything. I was a

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bit scared of God at that point. Parents made

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us go to church every Sunday and I knew that

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suicide was the cardinal sin and you go straight

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to hell. And so I was a little bit concerned

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about that. I didn't want to kill myself anyway.

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I just needed to have some semblance of control

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over my life. The only way I could do that was

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by cutting myself open. The release and the pain

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sort of let out a lot of that frustration. No

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one ever knew. My family didn't know. None of

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my friends knew. Fortunately, it didn't last

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too long. I had a growth spurt around 16. I started

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doing kickboxing with a friend of mine and that

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kind of gave me a lot more confidence. And then

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one of the school bullies said something very

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nasty about my mum and I elbowed him in the head

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and knocked him out. And no one picked on me

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after that. But then, you know, in Australia,

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unlike America, the drinking age is 18, which

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means you start drinking at 16. And so we go

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out underage drinking, stealing. goon bags of

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wine, you know, the boxes of wine. I don't know

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what you guys call it, but we call it a goon

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bag. And we go out and get drunk and then we

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get into these brawls all through the city centre.

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And it was a period where that's all it was on

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the weekends. It was these rolling brawls of

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the Tongans fighting the Samoans, the Serbs fighting

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the Croatians, the Macedonians fighting someone

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else, the Aboriginals fighting everyone. And

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so that kind of became my life. I flunked high

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school. I wasn't home much. And then I hit 17

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at the end of year 12, and dad kicked me out

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of home. So lead me through that because I've

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had many people on. I just had Chuck Liddell.

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He was bullied, and it was martial arts that

00:10:34.779 --> 00:10:36.779
really kind of empowered him. And you hear Georges

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St -Pierre and Justin Wren. I mean, so many of

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the fighters that we revere now have similar

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stories. but you know there's some that when

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they learn to fight they become protector and

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takes them down one path and there's some that

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for a while when they learn to fight they become

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almost become the bully for a while so was that

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where you found yourself almost overcompensating

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from being the victim to to kind of being the

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predator for a little bit not really i never

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picked on anyone smaller or weaker than me which

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is probably why i got my ass handed to me more

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times than not um it was just about um using

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what I'd learned in a real -time environment

00:11:16.610 --> 00:11:20.289
and practicing my skills and things like that.

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So I never turned into the bully. I was just

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out with my friends drinking. We'd get drunk

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and we'd have a fight. And sometimes we got beat

00:11:27.649 --> 00:11:30.710
up and sometimes we didn't. But, yeah, I think

00:11:30.710 --> 00:11:32.870
you're right. There's a lot of Special Forces

00:11:32.870 --> 00:11:35.250
guys that are the same. They came from a bully

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background and then they turned into wanting

00:11:39.269 --> 00:11:42.379
to be the protector. But at that point for me,

00:11:42.419 --> 00:11:45.220
I didn't really know much about that. I don't

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think I was given a lot of guidance into what

00:11:49.639 --> 00:11:53.539
was going to come next after I left school. You

00:11:53.539 --> 00:11:55.679
know, I thought, oh, my dad's a cop. Maybe I

00:11:55.679 --> 00:11:58.440
could be a cop or there's accountants or, you

00:11:58.440 --> 00:12:02.480
know, all the main jobs. I didn't get. guidance

00:12:02.480 --> 00:12:05.659
at school to tell me what was possible. I'm the

00:12:05.659 --> 00:12:08.179
sort of person that I want to know why I'm doing

00:12:08.179 --> 00:12:10.360
something. I go to class and they're teaching

00:12:10.360 --> 00:12:12.340
chemistry. I'm like, why am I learning this?

00:12:12.779 --> 00:12:15.580
What this doesn't pertain to me, I don't care

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about it. And no one sort of sat down and said,

00:12:19.139 --> 00:12:23.679
well, look, you could get a job doing this incredible

00:12:23.679 --> 00:12:26.740
thing. You know, if you study science and you

00:12:26.740 --> 00:12:30.840
enjoy biology, you could become a marine biologist

00:12:30.840 --> 00:12:33.580
and spend your days out in the open water diving

00:12:33.580 --> 00:12:36.559
with sharks and having adventures. Or, you know,

00:12:36.559 --> 00:12:41.480
if you like economics, you could become an ambassador.

00:12:42.110 --> 00:12:44.509
to Australia and you could get paid to travel

00:12:44.509 --> 00:12:47.149
the world so there wasn't any of that and so

00:12:47.149 --> 00:12:51.549
I really didn't focus at all on any of the school

00:12:51.549 --> 00:12:55.070
stuff that could have catapulted me into a great

00:12:55.070 --> 00:12:58.889
career instead I was just totally directionless

00:12:58.889 --> 00:13:04.289
I had no idea and so um I just after I got kicked

00:13:04.289 --> 00:13:07.860
out of home I was like sleeping on two friends

00:13:07.860 --> 00:13:10.299
of mine couches like there was these two sisters

00:13:10.299 --> 00:13:12.940
who their parents paid for them to live in australia

00:13:12.940 --> 00:13:15.500
they were from indonesia and so the parents weren't

00:13:15.500 --> 00:13:17.740
there so they let me sleep on their couch for

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about a year and all i did was smoke weed and

00:13:20.179 --> 00:13:22.620
party on the weekend with my unemployment check

00:13:22.620 --> 00:13:26.600
and it took me quite a while to drag myself out

00:13:26.600 --> 00:13:29.899
of that rut right well what about um the music

00:13:29.899 --> 00:13:31.919
industry i read that you were involved with that

00:13:31.919 --> 00:13:36.879
for a while Yeah, that came after. So I finally

00:13:36.879 --> 00:13:40.840
started working in a kitchen and behind the bars

00:13:40.840 --> 00:13:45.360
in Canberra. But hospitality doesn't always...

00:13:45.899 --> 00:13:48.620
uh give you the the best crowd to surround yourself

00:13:48.620 --> 00:13:51.460
with you know the the restaurant i worked in

00:13:51.460 --> 00:13:53.419
after 10 o 'clock on the weekends turned into

00:13:53.419 --> 00:13:55.919
one of the most popular nightclubs in canberra

00:13:55.919 --> 00:13:59.080
and so with that comes the hot girls comes the

00:13:59.080 --> 00:14:02.320
guys comes the drug dealers and so i became friends

00:14:02.320 --> 00:14:04.700
with this group of people that were probably

00:14:04.700 --> 00:14:09.500
definitely not that great for me and so just

00:14:09.500 --> 00:14:13.789
before I turned 21. I was at a party for my friend

00:14:13.789 --> 00:14:15.590
who was getting kicked out of the country because

00:14:15.590 --> 00:14:17.250
of criminal activity. He was being deported.

00:14:17.470 --> 00:14:21.289
And I got jumped by 20 guys and really had my

00:14:21.289 --> 00:14:25.990
ass kicked. And I sat myself down after that

00:14:25.990 --> 00:14:29.529
and I said, Paul, look, if something doesn't

00:14:29.529 --> 00:14:31.649
change, you're going to be dead or in jail by

00:14:31.649 --> 00:14:34.350
the time you're 23. And even though I didn't

00:14:34.350 --> 00:14:36.710
know what I wanted to do, I knew that I didn't

00:14:36.710 --> 00:14:39.629
want to do that. And so the only thing I could

00:14:39.629 --> 00:14:43.070
think of to do was leave, just leave this environment

00:14:43.070 --> 00:14:45.029
that I'd become a product of and start again.

00:14:45.169 --> 00:14:47.809
And so I had this tiny little car, tiny little

00:14:47.809 --> 00:14:50.529
Suzuki that I had no license for. And I threw

00:14:50.529 --> 00:14:52.330
everything I owned into it, which wasn't much.

00:14:52.860 --> 00:14:56.799
I drove 12 hours north to Brisbane. My friend

00:14:56.799 --> 00:14:59.059
Matt had moved up there the year before as a

00:14:59.059 --> 00:15:02.720
DJ. He got me a job working behind the bar in

00:15:02.720 --> 00:15:06.200
the strip club that he worked at. That was pretty

00:15:06.200 --> 00:15:08.179
cool. Then I moved in with him and a couple of

00:15:08.179 --> 00:15:10.379
American dudes that were involved in the hip

00:15:10.379 --> 00:15:14.159
-hop industry. I became a bartender in a strip

00:15:14.159 --> 00:15:19.679
club and a rapper. How did that go? Look, it

00:15:19.679 --> 00:15:22.580
was good. It was long hours in the club, but

00:15:22.580 --> 00:15:26.379
all my friends were hot chicks. And the hip -hop

00:15:26.379 --> 00:15:28.320
was fun. We were running nightclubs. We were

00:15:28.320 --> 00:15:30.720
running a community radio station. We put out

00:15:30.720 --> 00:15:34.919
an EP. In 1998, we opened up for Snoop Dogg.

00:15:34.919 --> 00:15:37.940
So I thought, this is it. I've made it. I'm going

00:15:37.940 --> 00:15:41.679
to be a rapper. But there's not a lot of money

00:15:41.679 --> 00:15:47.639
in rappers in Australia in 1998. And so the financial

00:15:47.639 --> 00:15:51.799
stresses took over. And as bands do, the band

00:15:51.799 --> 00:15:54.440
broke up. And I was kind of left wandering, working

00:15:54.440 --> 00:15:57.519
behind a bar again, not knowing where to turn.

00:15:58.220 --> 00:16:00.019
Well, I've still got this image because I heard

00:16:00.019 --> 00:16:03.919
you talking about getting beaten up. is it sit

00:16:03.919 --> 00:16:07.799
rep i think is that the podcast um anyway one

00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:09.879
of one of the special forces um podcasts that

00:16:09.879 --> 00:16:13.220
you talked on and the image of 20 guys beating

00:16:13.220 --> 00:16:15.740
up a dude firstly just seems so unfair but secondly

00:16:15.740 --> 00:16:17.460
you almost have this image of they had to be

00:16:17.460 --> 00:16:19.620
very polite and like line up to kick your ass

00:16:19.620 --> 00:16:21.620
one at a time so they could all get a chance

00:16:21.620 --> 00:16:24.519
well one of their friends was like i guess he

00:16:24.519 --> 00:16:27.559
was i i he was a little younger than me and i

00:16:27.559 --> 00:16:28.840
guess he didn't have any money and he was trying

00:16:28.840 --> 00:16:30.740
to get me to buy him a beer and i kept saying

00:16:30.740 --> 00:16:33.940
no and so he threw a glass of a glass at me and

00:16:33.940 --> 00:16:38.299
I jumped up and went at him and two of his friends

00:16:38.299 --> 00:16:40.100
jumped up beside him and one of them tried to

00:16:40.100 --> 00:16:42.000
punch me in the face. So I put my hand on his

00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:44.320
shoulder, blocking the punch and elbowed him

00:16:44.320 --> 00:16:46.620
in the head. It's my go -to move. And then all

00:16:46.620 --> 00:16:48.600
of a sudden, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop,

00:16:48.600 --> 00:16:50.399
all his friends popped up and it was, you know,

00:16:50.399 --> 00:16:55.080
it was 80 % Asian dudes. And so I'm six foot.

00:16:55.139 --> 00:16:58.340
So they all just came running at me and I backed

00:16:58.340 --> 00:17:01.120
out at, we're at a bowling club, you know, a

00:17:01.120 --> 00:17:03.740
lawn bowls club. And so I backed out onto the

00:17:03.740 --> 00:17:05.799
veranda and they all just surrounded me. And

00:17:05.799 --> 00:17:07.859
one dude tried to hit me with a chair and I front

00:17:07.859 --> 00:17:10.200
kicked him in the chest and tried to hold him

00:17:10.200 --> 00:17:11.940
off as long as I could. But eventually I ended

00:17:11.940 --> 00:17:15.079
up in the fetal position, getting dragged out

00:17:15.079 --> 00:17:17.119
by the guy, my friend that was getting kicked

00:17:17.119 --> 00:17:18.720
out of the country was from Papua New Guinea.

00:17:18.839 --> 00:17:22.019
And so some of the big uncles, the big Islander

00:17:22.019 --> 00:17:24.700
dudes came and dragged me out. And I just fled

00:17:24.700 --> 00:17:26.720
and went home and looked at my beat up face.

00:17:27.309 --> 00:17:29.309
Yeah, it's not the same as the movies where they

00:17:29.309 --> 00:17:32.109
politely wait one at a time to come out. Oh,

00:17:32.109 --> 00:17:34.349
yeah. No, I wish I had some Jackie Chan skills.

00:17:35.769 --> 00:17:38.769
All right. Well, then, so, you know, you'd peaked

00:17:38.769 --> 00:17:42.069
as a hip hop performer. So, lead me through into

00:17:42.069 --> 00:17:47.529
the military. I was working behind a bar in a

00:17:47.529 --> 00:17:51.210
restaurant. And, you know, there's a lot of minute

00:17:51.210 --> 00:17:57.420
stories within that as well. But I just... knew

00:17:57.420 --> 00:18:01.579
that I had more to offer. I didn't do well in

00:18:01.579 --> 00:18:04.119
school, but I was very well read. I was always

00:18:04.119 --> 00:18:06.859
reading. And I was always watching documentaries,

00:18:07.160 --> 00:18:09.200
Steve Irwin, David Attenborough, and all that

00:18:09.200 --> 00:18:10.940
sort of stuff. So I knew that there was this

00:18:10.940 --> 00:18:14.339
amazing world out there with so much to see and

00:18:14.339 --> 00:18:16.960
do, but I just didn't know how to get there.

00:18:17.400 --> 00:18:21.339
And so being a barman in a restaurant just wasn't

00:18:21.339 --> 00:18:25.440
cutting it. And I was a bit lost. I turned to

00:18:25.440 --> 00:18:27.740
the one person you can turn to when you're lost,

00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:30.940
a cold mum. And she said, well, why don't you

00:18:30.940 --> 00:18:32.799
talk to your two younger brothers? They've joined

00:18:32.799 --> 00:18:35.319
the army. They're in artillery. And I thought,

00:18:35.380 --> 00:18:37.599
all right, I'll give them a call. And they said,

00:18:37.660 --> 00:18:39.420
yeah, look, it's great. You get paid to travel,

00:18:39.640 --> 00:18:43.000
paid to blow stuff up, paid to play sport. But

00:18:43.000 --> 00:18:46.259
they said, whatever you do, Paul, we know you.

00:18:47.240 --> 00:18:50.079
Don't join infantry. You're not disciplined enough.

00:18:50.240 --> 00:18:52.500
You won't make it. And so I joined infantry.

00:18:54.319 --> 00:18:56.140
You can't have your baby brothers telling you

00:18:56.140 --> 00:18:58.579
what to do. It's that reverse psychology. They

00:18:58.579 --> 00:19:02.160
probably wanted you to join infantry. Yeah, maybe

00:19:02.160 --> 00:19:07.559
so. But yeah, it was one of the probably, at

00:19:07.559 --> 00:19:09.539
that time, the best choice I'd ever made in my

00:19:09.539 --> 00:19:12.799
life. I'll be forever grateful to the army for

00:19:12.799 --> 00:19:17.119
not just teaching me how to be a valuable member

00:19:17.119 --> 00:19:21.130
of society and a real man. but allowing me to

00:19:21.130 --> 00:19:24.089
serve my country. And that whole thing about

00:19:24.089 --> 00:19:29.349
becoming the protector just enriched my life

00:19:29.349 --> 00:19:31.529
and fulfilled me and gave me value and purpose.

00:19:31.769 --> 00:19:34.549
And I joined, I put my hand up for Airborne.

00:19:34.630 --> 00:19:36.829
And so, you know, that special maroon beret,

00:19:36.950 --> 00:19:39.470
the signal of paratroopers all around the world,

00:19:39.549 --> 00:19:42.529
it felt like I was really doing something special.

00:19:42.549 --> 00:19:45.269
And I was really proud. And that my life turned

00:19:45.269 --> 00:19:48.130
a corner as soon as I joined the army. Now, how

00:19:48.130 --> 00:19:50.630
did your conditioning serve you as you entered

00:19:50.630 --> 00:19:52.750
that program? You were a swimmer, then you were

00:19:52.750 --> 00:19:54.549
a martial artist. Did you feel pretty prepared

00:19:54.549 --> 00:19:59.970
during boot camp and beyond? Oh, hell no. I stopped

00:19:59.970 --> 00:20:03.250
kickboxing about 18. I hadn't done swimming since

00:20:03.250 --> 00:20:06.170
I was 15. At one point, I was a pack -a -day

00:20:06.170 --> 00:20:10.130
smoker and I was drinking and I'd done no exercise.

00:20:10.789 --> 00:20:14.900
But the funny thing about... getting physical

00:20:14.900 --> 00:20:17.819
fitness into you in those early years is it doesn't

00:20:17.819 --> 00:20:20.940
take long for it to come back and so what I was

00:20:20.940 --> 00:20:24.720
still really skinny, but as you know, you can't

00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:27.490
you turn up to bootcamp basic training there's

00:20:27.490 --> 00:20:29.769
no drinking there's no smoking all you've got

00:20:29.769 --> 00:20:32.410
is people yelling in your ear telling you to

00:20:32.410 --> 00:20:34.410
run telling you to march and telling you to eat

00:20:34.410 --> 00:20:37.970
time it's just absolute control and so it was

00:20:37.970 --> 00:20:42.990
like i was back at school times 10 and i i didn't

00:20:42.990 --> 00:20:47.190
like it whatsoever but i did have one thing in

00:20:47.190 --> 00:20:51.039
my corner i didn't have a choice There was nowhere

00:20:51.039 --> 00:20:53.460
left for me to turn. You know, I didn't have

00:20:53.460 --> 00:20:55.799
a great education to fall back on. I had no other

00:20:55.799 --> 00:20:58.460
skills. I didn't have any money. I didn't have

00:20:58.460 --> 00:21:01.460
a home. And everything I owned was locked away

00:21:01.460 --> 00:21:04.099
somewhere else on the base in one suitcase. And

00:21:04.099 --> 00:21:08.019
so I had to. Instead of trying to change my situation

00:21:08.019 --> 00:21:10.519
like I'd always been doing, I had to try a different

00:21:10.519 --> 00:21:13.220
tact and I had to change the way that I perceived

00:21:13.220 --> 00:21:16.220
everything. And so there were things I hated,

00:21:16.259 --> 00:21:19.539
like marching on the parade ground and learning

00:21:19.539 --> 00:21:22.259
to iron and scratching my face off with a razor

00:21:22.259 --> 00:21:24.720
and cleaning toilets and all that crap. But I

00:21:24.720 --> 00:21:27.940
did. begin to enjoy the physical fitness aspect

00:21:27.940 --> 00:21:30.900
of it. And I did enjoy learning to throw grenades

00:21:30.900 --> 00:21:33.420
and shoot machine guns and rocket launches. And

00:21:33.420 --> 00:21:36.240
so I focused on the things that I did enjoy and

00:21:36.240 --> 00:21:39.799
just managed to get through the other crap. And

00:21:39.799 --> 00:21:42.599
very quick, by the end of basic training, I'd

00:21:42.599 --> 00:21:45.519
been awarded the PT award. And so that's how

00:21:45.519 --> 00:21:48.500
quickly it can come back. And that gave me even

00:21:48.500 --> 00:21:51.009
more confidence in myself. Yeah, that's interesting.

00:21:51.390 --> 00:21:54.789
Very interesting. Yeah, so I've had some of the

00:21:54.789 --> 00:21:57.230
SEALs on here, the Navy SEALs. And, you know,

00:21:57.230 --> 00:21:59.869
that was kind of their thing is if you fail out

00:21:59.869 --> 00:22:03.509
of the, you know, BUDs or the classes after that,

00:22:03.569 --> 00:22:05.809
then you go back to whatever the Navy tells you

00:22:05.809 --> 00:22:08.349
you're going to do. So you could be turning wrenches

00:22:08.349 --> 00:22:10.789
somewhere. So I think for a couple of them, that

00:22:10.789 --> 00:22:13.490
was exactly it. It wasn't so much. they had this

00:22:13.490 --> 00:22:16.549
strong mindset before, but the thought of being

00:22:16.549 --> 00:22:19.529
stuck on a submarine somewhere was the driving

00:22:19.529 --> 00:22:22.390
force for them to finish the course. Yeah, absolutely.

00:22:23.490 --> 00:22:26.990
And that came into the next phase of my career.

00:22:27.609 --> 00:22:28.809
Brilliant. Well, walk me through that. So was

00:22:28.809 --> 00:22:30.829
it East Timor that you found yourself with Airborne?

00:22:31.829 --> 00:22:36.650
Yeah. So I arrived in my battalion at the start

00:22:36.650 --> 00:22:43.180
of 2001. And by, I think, April 2002, the uh

00:22:43.180 --> 00:22:48.640
sorry by by 1999 australia and a multinational

00:22:48.640 --> 00:22:51.759
force had gone into east timor and by 2002 was

00:22:51.759 --> 00:22:55.599
my battalion's uh rotation into east timor so

00:22:55.599 --> 00:22:59.440
we deployed for six months to east timor just

00:22:59.440 --> 00:23:01.759
providing security services watching the border

00:23:01.759 --> 00:23:04.380
all that sort of stuff by then all the the action

00:23:04.380 --> 00:23:07.900
was over so it really wasn't that exciting uh

00:23:07.900 --> 00:23:12.599
we did a Courses like signals course and pre

00:23:12.599 --> 00:23:15.420
-selection for snipers and stuff. But at the

00:23:15.420 --> 00:23:17.119
same time, even though there wasn't any action,

00:23:17.279 --> 00:23:20.519
I felt like I was doing my job for real instead

00:23:20.519 --> 00:23:23.569
of being at home in the bush. You know, at night

00:23:23.569 --> 00:23:26.150
you can see the twinkling lights of Sydney and

00:23:26.150 --> 00:23:28.089
you're just thinking, geez, I wish I was in my

00:23:28.089 --> 00:23:30.589
bed and not in a muddy hole that's filling with

00:23:30.589 --> 00:23:33.569
water that I've got to sleep in tonight. So it

00:23:33.569 --> 00:23:35.829
was that fulfillment of actually getting deployed

00:23:35.829 --> 00:23:37.650
and representing your country and protecting

00:23:37.650 --> 00:23:40.150
these people that had been getting slaughtered

00:23:40.150 --> 00:23:43.150
for the preceding decades. And so that was a

00:23:43.150 --> 00:23:46.289
really fulfilling period, especially because

00:23:46.289 --> 00:23:48.069
I'd never seen a third world country before.

00:23:48.250 --> 00:23:50.730
You know, most people that live in a first world

00:23:50.730 --> 00:23:53.410
country never will. And so it gives you an appreciation

00:23:53.410 --> 00:23:56.470
for all of the incredible simple things that

00:23:56.470 --> 00:23:59.450
we have, like clean running water, a toilet,

00:23:59.609 --> 00:24:03.470
showers, food at the ready, electricity, TVs,

00:24:03.589 --> 00:24:05.609
entertainment. You know, we have everything at

00:24:05.609 --> 00:24:08.369
the tip of our fingers. And yet so many people

00:24:08.369 --> 00:24:10.930
are sad and depressed. And you go out to these

00:24:10.930 --> 00:24:12.910
third world nations and they've got nothing except

00:24:12.910 --> 00:24:16.589
their families and they're all happy. And so

00:24:16.589 --> 00:24:20.190
it really changed my mindset about gratitude.

00:24:21.099 --> 00:24:23.920
Well, for people listening, I'm somewhat familiar

00:24:23.920 --> 00:24:25.359
because obviously I grew up with the BBC, which

00:24:25.359 --> 00:24:28.720
I would like to think was one of the best news

00:24:28.720 --> 00:24:30.339
stations out there because they actually report

00:24:30.339 --> 00:24:35.200
news. But we were aware of the genocide in East

00:24:35.200 --> 00:24:38.259
Timor and then some of the terrorism as well,

00:24:38.359 --> 00:24:41.660
aimed at Australians specifically. So can you

00:24:41.660 --> 00:24:44.000
just kind of give a backstory of that conflict

00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:46.880
and then some of the terrorism that your men

00:24:46.880 --> 00:24:49.950
and women were fighting after that? Well, what

00:24:49.950 --> 00:24:53.049
happened was Indonesia, as they do, as they're

00:24:53.049 --> 00:24:56.430
currently doing in West Papua, had invaded West

00:24:56.430 --> 00:24:58.829
Timor and took it over and they wanted to move

00:24:58.829 --> 00:25:01.609
over into East Timor and take that as well. And

00:25:01.609 --> 00:25:04.529
so they were sending night raids of these, you

00:25:04.529 --> 00:25:06.230
know, they're all dressed in black and the locals

00:25:06.230 --> 00:25:09.430
called them ninjas and they'd send these patrols

00:25:09.430 --> 00:25:11.289
of soldiers in and militia and they'd just go

00:25:11.289 --> 00:25:14.730
around rampantly killing and murdering. And there

00:25:14.730 --> 00:25:17.490
was a bunch of Australian journalists. There's

00:25:17.490 --> 00:25:18.950
a really good movie about it. it actually called

00:25:18.950 --> 00:25:22.309
balabo where some aussie journalists some foreign

00:25:22.309 --> 00:25:24.670
journalists as well i think um got slaughtered

00:25:24.670 --> 00:25:30.950
by the indonesians and so in 1999 my brother

00:25:30.950 --> 00:25:34.950
who was attached to my unit he was uh airborne

00:25:34.950 --> 00:25:37.390
artillery so he that was his first trip there

00:25:37.390 --> 00:25:40.250
and that was when australia first went in and

00:25:40.250 --> 00:25:43.190
there was a lot of action then um but it's simmered

00:25:43.190 --> 00:25:46.619
over the years and then the um East Timorese

00:25:46.619 --> 00:25:49.400
militia, the Falentil, had risen up and they

00:25:49.400 --> 00:25:51.660
were fighting back against Indonesia. Then the

00:25:51.660 --> 00:25:54.180
Indonesian special forces, the Kapasas, would

00:25:54.180 --> 00:25:57.299
come in and do raids. And then after my deployment,

00:25:57.480 --> 00:26:00.019
it had pretty much simmered, but then there was

00:26:00.019 --> 00:26:03.220
little outbreaks here and there. But it was actually

00:26:03.220 --> 00:26:07.119
quite a huge conflict. Yeah, I remember seeing

00:26:07.119 --> 00:26:08.579
it. Like you said, there's just a huge amount

00:26:08.579 --> 00:26:10.859
of people died. When it comes to the actual total

00:26:10.859 --> 00:26:13.740
population, the percentage of men and women and

00:26:13.740 --> 00:26:16.319
children that were murdered was horrific. Yeah,

00:26:16.319 --> 00:26:19.240
and it didn't really feel like anyone, any nation

00:26:19.240 --> 00:26:22.200
did anything until they discovered, obviously,

00:26:22.420 --> 00:26:26.440
as always, oil. They discovered the East Timorese

00:26:26.440 --> 00:26:29.839
oil shelf, and then that was when the multinational

00:26:29.839 --> 00:26:32.480
force went in. They broke deals to get access

00:26:32.480 --> 00:26:35.940
to the oil. There you go. That's why we help

00:26:35.940 --> 00:26:38.599
out. There's a lot of places that are, like I

00:26:38.599 --> 00:26:40.799
mentioned earlier, West Papua, where the Indonesians

00:26:40.799 --> 00:26:43.059
are in, and they're stealing all the resources

00:26:43.059 --> 00:26:46.960
and killing all the locals. But no one does anything

00:26:46.960 --> 00:26:49.539
because there's nothing there for them. And China

00:26:49.539 --> 00:26:51.420
basically just says, hey, Australia, mind your

00:26:51.420 --> 00:26:54.720
own business. And Australia does. So it's such,

00:26:54.980 --> 00:26:58.940
you know, we've all seen it now, the hypocrisy

00:26:58.940 --> 00:27:01.779
in government. This isn't a new thing. Yeah,

00:27:01.779 --> 00:27:03.759
no, and it's so sad. I mean, even I've had discussion

00:27:03.759 --> 00:27:05.519
before on here, even when you look at things

00:27:05.519 --> 00:27:10.220
like slavery. People go, oh, it's racist and

00:27:10.220 --> 00:27:12.099
it's about skin color. It's like, no, it's not.

00:27:13.000 --> 00:27:16.640
It's a handful of assholes that bought human

00:27:16.640 --> 00:27:19.220
beings and made them work for them for free so

00:27:19.220 --> 00:27:21.019
they can make a shitload of money. It's about

00:27:21.019 --> 00:27:23.440
money and power. It's nothing to do even with

00:27:23.440 --> 00:27:27.539
race. It's just about free workforce. Absolutely.

00:27:27.619 --> 00:27:31.240
They do it in China. They do it in Africa. Around

00:27:31.240 --> 00:27:34.960
the time of the African slave trade was a huge

00:27:34.960 --> 00:27:38.799
slave trade in the Irish as well. And so it's

00:27:38.799 --> 00:27:42.000
not race specific by any means. This is happening

00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:44.940
and has happened all over the world to many races.

00:27:45.319 --> 00:27:48.339
Yeah, absolutely. Well, so you had that deployment

00:27:48.339 --> 00:27:52.059
to Timor. Were you able to make it to the Middle

00:27:52.059 --> 00:27:57.730
East? No. I came back from East Timor around

00:27:57.730 --> 00:28:05.150
October 2002. We just went back to training and

00:28:05.150 --> 00:28:07.470
training and training. It was just very repetitive.

00:28:08.089 --> 00:28:11.369
My work ethic was slipping. My job satisfaction

00:28:11.369 --> 00:28:14.190
was slipping. Then all of a sudden, I was away

00:28:14.190 --> 00:28:18.809
on an exercise in New South Wales. My CSM, my

00:28:18.809 --> 00:28:20.569
company sergeant major, came up to me with a

00:28:20.569 --> 00:28:23.230
mobile phone, which is... weird you know I'm

00:28:23.230 --> 00:28:25.950
a lowly private and my CSM comes up to me goes

00:28:25.950 --> 00:28:28.349
hey hey Paul the boss wants to talk to you and

00:28:28.349 --> 00:28:32.430
I'm just thinking oh no what have I done there

00:28:32.430 --> 00:28:35.450
is no good reason for the the major to want to

00:28:35.450 --> 00:28:37.750
talk to me and so I picked it up and I'm like

00:28:37.750 --> 00:28:39.990
yeah boss what's going on and he said hey Dutchie

00:28:39.990 --> 00:28:42.359
do you want to go to the sandpit And I was like,

00:28:42.440 --> 00:28:45.180
hell yes, I do. And he's right. Pack your stuff.

00:28:45.259 --> 00:28:47.059
You're coming back to base. You're going on pre

00:28:47.059 --> 00:28:49.640
-deployment training. I was like, yes, this is

00:28:49.640 --> 00:28:52.440
the best news ever. And so I went back and there

00:28:52.440 --> 00:28:54.319
was only me and five of my mates that were going

00:28:54.319 --> 00:28:57.539
to deploy with a lot of the Pogues. And so we

00:28:57.539 --> 00:28:59.579
got all, you know, started learning Arabic, got

00:28:59.579 --> 00:29:01.599
our desert cams, all that sort of stuff, got

00:29:01.599 --> 00:29:03.799
a lot of in -country briefings. And then four

00:29:03.799 --> 00:29:06.500
days before we left, we were in a meeting room

00:29:06.500 --> 00:29:09.539
and they said, you infantry guys, go back to

00:29:09.539 --> 00:29:10.759
your rooms and pack your bags. You're not going

00:29:10.759 --> 00:29:14.079
anymore. And so it was like getting left at the

00:29:14.079 --> 00:29:18.619
altar. Understandably, we went out to Bondi and

00:29:18.619 --> 00:29:23.140
got hammered that night and went back to work.

00:29:23.299 --> 00:29:26.859
And it was, you know, that just made my job satisfaction

00:29:26.859 --> 00:29:31.079
slip even more. And I didn't want to, I didn't

00:29:31.079 --> 00:29:34.019
know what else to do because, you know, I thought

00:29:34.019 --> 00:29:35.960
I'd found my place and all of a sudden I'm not

00:29:35.960 --> 00:29:38.640
happy here. And I didn't want to become one of

00:29:38.640 --> 00:29:42.259
these crusty old sergeants that just seems to

00:29:42.259 --> 00:29:45.440
hate life. And it's just his only enjoyment is

00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:48.519
being at work, yelling at everyone. And so I

00:29:48.519 --> 00:29:51.059
thought, you know what? It's a big military.

00:29:51.640 --> 00:29:54.079
Surely there's something else that I can just

00:29:54.079 --> 00:29:56.519
sort of sidestep into that's going to be better

00:29:56.519 --> 00:29:59.240
than being filthy and dirty and smelly all the

00:29:59.240 --> 00:30:02.779
time. And we went on a course called Hewitt.

00:30:03.119 --> 00:30:05.740
which is helicopter underwater escape training,

00:30:05.859 --> 00:30:07.819
where you learn to escape from a helicopter if

00:30:07.819 --> 00:30:10.940
it gets dropped into the ocean. And there was

00:30:10.940 --> 00:30:13.759
these two guys there on scuba gear acting as

00:30:13.759 --> 00:30:16.039
safety divers. And I'm like, how do you get that

00:30:16.039 --> 00:30:20.240
job? Like, what do these guys do? And so I went

00:30:20.240 --> 00:30:21.680
over and I talked to them and they're like, oh

00:30:21.680 --> 00:30:23.660
yeah, we're clearance divers. I'm like, oh yeah,

00:30:23.779 --> 00:30:27.059
what's that? I kind of heard about it. I didn't

00:30:27.059 --> 00:30:28.539
really know much about them. I knew they were

00:30:28.539 --> 00:30:31.519
special. No one looked directly at them. Just

00:30:31.519 --> 00:30:34.349
sort of went, oh shit. There's those guys. And

00:30:34.349 --> 00:30:38.990
I thought to myself, what's stopping me from

00:30:38.990 --> 00:30:42.329
being one of those guys? What's stopping me from

00:30:42.329 --> 00:30:45.630
being someone that people within my industry

00:30:45.630 --> 00:30:50.069
looks up to? And I feel like a lot of the times

00:30:50.069 --> 00:30:54.509
we ask ourselves these really hard internal questions

00:30:54.509 --> 00:30:58.950
and we don't give ourselves an answer. You know,

00:30:58.970 --> 00:31:01.250
we just kind of treat it as hypothetical. You

00:31:01.250 --> 00:31:02.690
know, what's stopping me? And you don't give

00:31:02.690 --> 00:31:06.150
yourself an answer. But those big, scary questions

00:31:06.150 --> 00:31:09.430
and decisions, they're the ones that we owe ourselves

00:31:09.430 --> 00:31:12.890
the most to answer. And so I asked myself again,

00:31:12.930 --> 00:31:15.170
I said, you know, what is stopping me? And I

00:31:15.170 --> 00:31:19.069
thought, nothing. Really, there's nothing except

00:31:19.069 --> 00:31:22.750
for fear. And I'd already overcome so much of

00:31:22.750 --> 00:31:24.289
that fear. I thought, you know what, I'm just

00:31:24.289 --> 00:31:27.430
going to give it a go. And it took about 12 months

00:31:27.430 --> 00:31:29.329
for my paperwork to go through to get accepted

00:31:29.329 --> 00:31:33.190
onto the first phase, which is called Ships Divers.

00:31:33.569 --> 00:31:35.869
It's where you learn to scuba dive and search

00:31:35.869 --> 00:31:38.869
for bombs, both of which I'd never done in my

00:31:38.869 --> 00:31:42.309
life. So it was a pretty steep learning curve.

00:31:42.349 --> 00:31:44.630
And then learning all the Navy jargon as well.

00:31:45.190 --> 00:31:47.750
And I passed that course by the skin of my teeth.

00:31:49.359 --> 00:31:52.579
By doing that, that gave me the opportunity to

00:31:52.579 --> 00:31:55.980
try out, to go to the selection course, SEEDAT,

00:31:56.019 --> 00:31:58.680
the Clearance Diver Acceptance Testing. And so

00:31:58.680 --> 00:32:01.140
my dog is the loudest drinker in the world. I

00:32:01.140 --> 00:32:02.200
don't know if you can hear that. That's okay.

00:32:02.279 --> 00:32:03.880
I've got a German shepherd that drinks like that

00:32:03.880 --> 00:32:11.059
too. There it is. Shut up. And so I went back

00:32:11.059 --> 00:32:15.059
to my battalion for a little while. and went

00:32:15.059 --> 00:32:16.740
went into training because i knew what was to

00:32:16.740 --> 00:32:19.880
come i'd heard about this selection process and

00:32:19.880 --> 00:32:23.880
i wasn't disappointed by any means this was 10

00:32:23.880 --> 00:32:27.700
days of pure mental physical and emotional anguish

00:32:27.700 --> 00:32:31.059
um you know swimming in the middle of the night

00:32:31.059 --> 00:32:33.940
from 11 p .m till five o 'clock in the morning

00:32:33.940 --> 00:32:37.200
across sydney harbour pitch black waters like

00:32:37.579 --> 00:32:39.539
And then you get a couple hours sleep and then

00:32:39.539 --> 00:32:42.200
you've got to run half a marathon and then pack

00:32:42.200 --> 00:32:44.660
marches and stretcher carries and first aid stands

00:32:44.660 --> 00:32:47.000
and mind games and breath hold and on and on

00:32:47.000 --> 00:32:52.799
for 10 days. And I went into it like we were

00:32:52.799 --> 00:32:56.740
talking about earlier. There is no way I am going

00:32:56.740 --> 00:32:59.960
to go back to my army battalion as a failure

00:32:59.960 --> 00:33:03.339
because I don't want to be there. This is my

00:33:03.339 --> 00:33:06.720
shot, my one and only shot to drag my ass. out

00:33:06.720 --> 00:33:10.380
of this place and achieve something that I never

00:33:10.380 --> 00:33:12.059
thought I could have done in my life. And so

00:33:12.059 --> 00:33:14.720
I went into it with a mindset where they're either

00:33:14.720 --> 00:33:17.420
going to kill me or I'm going to pass. And fortunately,

00:33:17.640 --> 00:33:20.640
I passed. And what was the attrition rate for

00:33:20.640 --> 00:33:22.299
that? How many did you start with? How many did

00:33:22.299 --> 00:33:25.799
you finish with? It's about, we started with

00:33:25.799 --> 00:33:29.319
about 36 and we finished with 10. Wow. Yeah,

00:33:29.380 --> 00:33:30.799
that's pretty significant. So it's anywhere from,

00:33:30.859 --> 00:33:36.019
say, 40 % to 70 % failure rate. Right. And then

00:33:36.019 --> 00:33:38.559
just as a side note, because I had Dan Pronk

00:33:38.559 --> 00:33:41.619
on, I believe. Do you guys know each other? We

00:33:41.619 --> 00:33:43.900
don't know each other personally, but we've talked

00:33:43.900 --> 00:33:46.319
on and off throughout the years. Okay, beautiful.

00:33:46.480 --> 00:33:50.180
Well, he's obviously Australian SAS. So what

00:33:50.180 --> 00:33:53.559
made you choose the diving route versus that

00:33:53.559 --> 00:33:58.519
special operations route? I just didn't want

00:33:58.519 --> 00:34:00.240
to be a soldier anymore. I wanted to do something

00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:04.000
different. I just had a gut full of being in

00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:09.239
the bush. i'd had enough um i'm not the sort

00:34:09.239 --> 00:34:13.340
of i've never done one thing for longer than

00:34:13.340 --> 00:34:18.679
than that in my life and so As much as that would

00:34:18.679 --> 00:34:22.159
have been another world, another avenue of growth,

00:34:22.420 --> 00:34:24.920
I really just wanted to do something totally

00:34:24.920 --> 00:34:29.219
different. Going from the air and the land to

00:34:29.219 --> 00:34:32.440
under the ocean felt like a natural progression

00:34:32.440 --> 00:34:35.000
for me, especially being such a good swimmer.

00:34:35.599 --> 00:34:39.480
With those divers, how are they used in warfare?

00:34:43.179 --> 00:34:46.019
multi -faceted job because Australia doesn't

00:34:46.019 --> 00:34:49.539
have the population of say America where everyone

00:34:49.539 --> 00:34:54.260
sort of specializes we we have four main elements

00:34:54.260 --> 00:34:56.760
I believe they've changed over the years now

00:34:56.760 --> 00:35:00.380
but that the fundamentals are we do maritime

00:35:00.380 --> 00:35:04.659
tactical operations so o2 swimming you know reconnaissance

00:35:04.659 --> 00:35:08.840
brief reconnaissance diving attack diving And

00:35:08.840 --> 00:35:11.679
then we have mine countermeasures where you're

00:35:11.679 --> 00:35:15.380
looking for unexploded sea mines and bombs and

00:35:15.380 --> 00:35:17.840
getting rid of those. And then we have underwater

00:35:17.840 --> 00:35:21.099
battle damage repair, which is hard hat diving

00:35:21.099 --> 00:35:25.139
using drills, chainsaws, explosive weapons. And

00:35:25.139 --> 00:35:30.719
then we have EOD as well. So land -based EOD,

00:35:30.840 --> 00:35:34.079
explosive ordnance disposal. So we do it underwater

00:35:34.079 --> 00:35:36.690
and we do it on land as well. And you have to

00:35:36.690 --> 00:35:39.789
be proficient in all of those. Once you pass,

00:35:40.010 --> 00:35:43.730
it's a 49 -week course to learn everything. And

00:35:43.730 --> 00:35:46.429
then you'll go to the – there's only two teams.

00:35:46.469 --> 00:35:49.010
There's Team 1 in Sydney, Team 4 in Western Australia.

00:35:49.130 --> 00:35:51.610
They always say Team 1 for fun, Team 4 for war.

00:35:52.050 --> 00:35:56.630
So I got sent to Team 1. And then you get put

00:35:56.630 --> 00:35:59.510
into your element and you focus on that. But

00:35:59.510 --> 00:36:01.469
you can be called out to go and switch elements

00:36:01.469 --> 00:36:04.369
on any given day. So you have to be an expert

00:36:04.369 --> 00:36:07.889
in everything. Well, that's how the fire service

00:36:07.889 --> 00:36:11.369
is. In America, we do the EMS and the fireside.

00:36:11.449 --> 00:36:14.010
So we really are jack of all trades, master of

00:36:14.010 --> 00:36:16.590
none. And obviously, there are some men and women

00:36:16.590 --> 00:36:18.730
that specialize and are stronger in one particular

00:36:18.730 --> 00:36:22.750
area. But that, to me, is the allure of the job

00:36:22.750 --> 00:36:25.960
and my journey. I wasn't supposed to be a fireman

00:36:25.960 --> 00:36:27.699
in England for whatever reason, according to

00:36:27.699 --> 00:36:30.219
the universe. So when I got here, I got to be,

00:36:30.260 --> 00:36:33.280
you know, fire and a paramedic as well. But that

00:36:33.280 --> 00:36:36.860
is the draw for the fire service is when the

00:36:36.860 --> 00:36:39.039
tones go off, you literally don't know what you're

00:36:39.039 --> 00:36:41.579
going to be doing. And it's very exciting. So

00:36:41.579 --> 00:36:43.719
was that kind of the draw to you? Like you said,

00:36:43.739 --> 00:36:46.099
you were sick of soldiering specifically, and

00:36:46.099 --> 00:36:49.039
now you have this giant Swiss army knife to work

00:36:49.039 --> 00:36:51.699
from? Well, honestly, I went in a little bit

00:36:51.699 --> 00:36:54.800
blind. I didn't know all about that. I just knew

00:36:54.800 --> 00:36:58.539
that they went diving and they looked cool. I'm

00:36:58.539 --> 00:37:01.579
in. What's that old saying? If you don't know

00:37:01.579 --> 00:37:03.199
what you're doing, at least look cool doing it.

00:37:03.300 --> 00:37:06.840
There we go. So, yeah, I discovered a lot of

00:37:06.840 --> 00:37:09.159
it while I was going through it. But, yeah, that's

00:37:09.159 --> 00:37:11.659
the reason that I loved it so much. You never

00:37:11.659 --> 00:37:13.699
knew what you were going to be doing on any given

00:37:13.699 --> 00:37:16.380
day. One day you might be out in a helicopter

00:37:16.380 --> 00:37:18.920
doing an aerial mine disposal. The next day you're

00:37:18.920 --> 00:37:21.559
searching the bottom of the Russian ambassador's

00:37:21.559 --> 00:37:25.300
ship for bombs. Or, you know, at one point I

00:37:25.300 --> 00:37:27.780
had to go out. I was the first person to dive

00:37:27.780 --> 00:37:31.260
on a lost Japanese midget submarine that had

00:37:31.260 --> 00:37:33.719
been located off the coast of North Sydney. And

00:37:33.719 --> 00:37:36.480
so to dive down, you know, 57 metres, hard hat

00:37:36.480 --> 00:37:39.019
and film all that sort of stuff and collect sand

00:37:39.019 --> 00:37:43.719
for the descendants of those. submarine pilots

00:37:43.719 --> 00:37:46.239
that were still in the submarine, you know, you

00:37:46.239 --> 00:37:48.300
never knew what you were going to do. And that

00:37:48.300 --> 00:37:51.679
really was what kept me interested in it. Beautiful.

00:37:51.719 --> 00:37:55.079
Well, again, so you have the skill set now. Were

00:37:55.079 --> 00:37:57.139
you able to apply it during your time there?

00:37:57.639 --> 00:38:01.159
No, that's the thing. I left the army to go to

00:38:01.159 --> 00:38:04.159
a deployable unit. And then I never deployed

00:38:04.159 --> 00:38:06.579
anywhere except on exercises. And all my army

00:38:06.579 --> 00:38:08.679
mates went to Iraq and Afghanistan like three

00:38:08.679 --> 00:38:14.150
or four times. but i had the better job so why

00:38:14.150 --> 00:38:15.949
yeah exactly because you were doing all the fun

00:38:15.949 --> 00:38:20.789
stuff so team one um so lead me into february

00:38:20.789 --> 00:38:23.489
2009 and kind of you know fill in the gap and

00:38:23.489 --> 00:38:27.969
then then let's talk about that day um so i'd

00:38:27.969 --> 00:38:30.789
been with the dive teams for about three and

00:38:30.789 --> 00:38:35.719
a half years and we got a job to pretend to be

00:38:35.719 --> 00:38:39.079
attack swimmers and divers for the r d department

00:38:39.079 --> 00:38:42.260
of the military who were testing out new equipment

00:38:42.260 --> 00:38:45.699
this unmanned video and sonar the goal was to

00:38:45.699 --> 00:38:48.000
be able to put this equipment anywhere around

00:38:48.000 --> 00:38:50.559
the world on a ship on a wharf turn it on and

00:38:50.559 --> 00:38:53.460
you can walk away and the the video would detect

00:38:53.460 --> 00:38:55.639
automatically detect attack swimmers coming to

00:38:55.639 --> 00:38:58.000
put bombs in our ships and the sonar would detect

00:38:58.000 --> 00:38:59.920
attack divers under the surface of the water

00:38:59.920 --> 00:39:04.170
and so we were in sydney harbor uh right along

00:39:04.170 --> 00:39:06.929
the big navy base there and we were pretending

00:39:06.929 --> 00:39:10.829
to be the attack swimmers and so it was like

00:39:10.829 --> 00:39:14.250
six in the morning i had my new guy just swimming

00:39:14.250 --> 00:39:16.710
basically from point a to point b this is this

00:39:16.710 --> 00:39:19.489
was a really boring day it was a basically counter

00:39:19.489 --> 00:39:23.150
-terrorism uh exercise but It wasn't as cool

00:39:23.150 --> 00:39:24.690
as that. We were just swimming in the water.

00:39:25.190 --> 00:39:27.590
After about 30 minutes, I pulled my new guy out

00:39:27.590 --> 00:39:30.230
and offered to take over. And I jumped in, rolled

00:39:30.230 --> 00:39:34.389
out the back of the Zodiac. And I had a pair

00:39:34.389 --> 00:39:37.730
of black fins on and a black wetsuit. And I was

00:39:37.730 --> 00:39:40.110
just swimming, what we call finning. I'm on the

00:39:40.110 --> 00:39:43.289
surface, on my back, just kicking my legs. And

00:39:43.289 --> 00:39:45.829
I was only in the water for about four or five

00:39:45.829 --> 00:39:49.289
minutes. And then I looked over my left shoulder

00:39:49.289 --> 00:39:51.230
to make sure that I was going in the right direction

00:39:51.230 --> 00:39:53.849
still. And as I turned around, I got a really

00:39:53.849 --> 00:39:58.670
big whack in my leg. And at first I didn't panic

00:39:58.670 --> 00:40:01.769
because it didn't hurt. I thought maybe the guys

00:40:01.769 --> 00:40:04.070
in the boat got a little bit too close, but I

00:40:04.070 --> 00:40:05.829
knew they were actually quite far away. So I

00:40:05.829 --> 00:40:08.050
didn't know what it was. I turn around and all

00:40:08.050 --> 00:40:10.949
of a sudden there's this massive shark's head

00:40:10.949 --> 00:40:15.199
attached to me. And I had no idea what to do.

00:40:15.239 --> 00:40:17.860
I'd never even seen a large, dangerous shark.

00:40:18.099 --> 00:40:21.300
Next to public speaking, sharks were my worst

00:40:21.300 --> 00:40:24.800
nightmare. And so it took a second for me to

00:40:24.800 --> 00:40:27.619
process what was going on. And then I realized,

00:40:27.860 --> 00:40:30.360
you know, I've seen Discovery Channel. I've seen

00:40:30.360 --> 00:40:32.440
The Crocodile Hunter. I'll jab it in the eyeball.

00:40:33.000 --> 00:40:36.369
But when I tried, I couldn't move my arm. And

00:40:36.369 --> 00:40:38.650
I looked down and I could see the teeth embedded

00:40:38.650 --> 00:40:41.449
in my wrist. And every time I went to pull my

00:40:41.449 --> 00:40:45.469
arm, I could see the skin tearing. And so I reached

00:40:45.469 --> 00:40:47.489
over with my left hand to go for the eyeball,

00:40:47.590 --> 00:40:49.590
but I couldn't reach. So I grabbed it by the

00:40:49.590 --> 00:40:52.409
nose and I tried to lever it off me. But all

00:40:52.409 --> 00:40:54.610
that did was push the teeth of the lower jaw

00:40:54.610 --> 00:40:56.570
deeper into my leg. And that's when I got the

00:40:56.570 --> 00:41:01.099
first inclination of pain. But, you know, the

00:41:01.099 --> 00:41:03.760
teeth on these animals are so sharp. It just

00:41:03.760 --> 00:41:06.380
went in like razor blades. And I cocked back,

00:41:06.400 --> 00:41:07.880
you know, last -ditch effort. The last thing

00:41:07.880 --> 00:41:09.900
I knew to do was punch it in the nose. So I cocked

00:41:09.900 --> 00:41:13.500
back to do that. But it must have decided that

00:41:13.500 --> 00:41:16.440
I was food. And it started to shake its head.

00:41:16.900 --> 00:41:19.940
And that's when all the fight went out of me.

00:41:20.480 --> 00:41:24.719
The pain was just so horrific. There was nothing

00:41:24.719 --> 00:41:27.739
I could do. It took me underwater and was just

00:41:27.739 --> 00:41:31.340
shaking me like a rag doll. And so I'm in panic.

00:41:31.500 --> 00:41:33.760
I can't do anything. My lungs are filling with

00:41:33.760 --> 00:41:37.000
water. And you can watch the footage of it. It's

00:41:37.000 --> 00:41:39.480
actually on YouTube. It lasted about eight seconds.

00:41:40.099 --> 00:41:43.760
But when I go back and think about it, I break

00:41:43.760 --> 00:41:46.539
it down into minute detail. And I can remember

00:41:46.539 --> 00:41:48.679
everything that happened. I can remember everything

00:41:48.679 --> 00:41:50.960
that I was thinking. And I remember thinking

00:41:50.960 --> 00:41:55.010
at one point. I'm not going home today. I'm going

00:41:55.010 --> 00:42:00.690
to die right now. And our brains and our bodies

00:42:00.690 --> 00:42:04.130
are such incredible machines that they can process

00:42:04.130 --> 00:42:08.570
things in these instances like lightning. And

00:42:08.570 --> 00:42:13.489
I thought to myself, am I ready to die? And I

00:42:13.489 --> 00:42:17.750
looked back on who I was. in the early days of

00:42:17.750 --> 00:42:21.489
my life to who I had become and all of the things

00:42:21.489 --> 00:42:24.650
that I'd overcome. And I thought to myself, I've

00:42:24.650 --> 00:42:29.070
lived 10 lives in these 31 years. I have no regrets.

00:42:29.590 --> 00:42:32.769
If I'm going to die, then I'm good to go. And

00:42:32.769 --> 00:42:35.989
I kind of just let go and was waiting to die.

00:42:36.590 --> 00:42:41.250
And then the shark's teeth had met all the way

00:42:41.250 --> 00:42:44.699
in the middle of my thigh. and ripped out my

00:42:44.699 --> 00:42:47.280
hamstring and ripped off my right hand at the

00:42:47.280 --> 00:42:49.980
same time and because it wasn't attached to me

00:42:49.980 --> 00:42:52.719
anymore my wetsuit made me buoyant and I popped

00:42:52.719 --> 00:42:56.139
to the surface and I thought shit I'm not dead

00:42:56.139 --> 00:42:58.619
I better get out of here before it comes back

00:42:58.619 --> 00:43:01.519
and so I start to swim and I take my arm out

00:43:01.519 --> 00:43:05.360
of the water but my hand's missing and my arm

00:43:05.360 --> 00:43:08.420
ends at the end of my wetsuit And so my medical

00:43:08.420 --> 00:43:10.099
training kicked in and I thought, I've got to

00:43:10.099 --> 00:43:12.699
keep that wound above my heart to stem the bleeding,

00:43:12.840 --> 00:43:15.880
not knowing what had happened to my leg. All

00:43:15.880 --> 00:43:19.260
I knew was I couldn't feel it. And so I was swimming

00:43:19.260 --> 00:43:22.619
back to the boat with one hand and one leg, just

00:43:22.619 --> 00:43:25.400
thinking this shark or another shark that smelt

00:43:25.400 --> 00:43:27.719
the blood is going to come in and attack me.

00:43:27.840 --> 00:43:30.659
And I was just waiting for that bite, those teeth

00:43:30.659 --> 00:43:33.079
to wrap around my leg and drag me under and kill

00:43:33.079 --> 00:43:36.800
me. But I just kept swimming. And eventually

00:43:36.800 --> 00:43:39.599
the guys in the boat got near me and they said

00:43:39.599 --> 00:43:42.000
they saw I was swimming through a massive pool

00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:44.699
of my own blood. And they said it was so thick

00:43:44.699 --> 00:43:47.659
they could actually taste it in the air. And

00:43:47.659 --> 00:43:50.980
fortunately, they got to me first, pulled me

00:43:50.980 --> 00:43:53.679
out of the boat and instantly commenced first

00:43:53.679 --> 00:43:55.880
aid to keep me alive until the paramedics could

00:43:55.880 --> 00:43:58.400
get there. That's amazing. Well, there's such

00:43:58.400 --> 00:44:01.420
a powerful moment in that where you went from.

00:44:01.960 --> 00:44:03.840
being at peace with your death, which must have

00:44:03.840 --> 00:44:06.239
been incredibly powerful. And I'm sure it's something

00:44:06.239 --> 00:44:09.079
that you carry to this day. But then when there's

00:44:09.079 --> 00:44:11.619
that absolute minute glimmer of hope that you're

00:44:11.619 --> 00:44:14.059
going to live, as you said, the brain completely

00:44:14.059 --> 00:44:17.460
switched gears and you went from, you know, submitting

00:44:17.460 --> 00:44:23.179
to fighting again. Yeah. Yeah, that was it. What

00:44:23.179 --> 00:44:27.239
coming that close to death did for me was it

00:44:27.239 --> 00:44:30.900
taught me that death really isn't that scary.

00:44:31.519 --> 00:44:35.800
I faced it in the most violent of horrific ways.

00:44:36.260 --> 00:44:40.199
But right there at the end, I wasn't afraid because

00:44:40.199 --> 00:44:44.900
I had no regrets. And so it freed me from clinging

00:44:44.900 --> 00:44:47.880
to this mortal coil and being afraid of things

00:44:47.880 --> 00:44:50.539
and realizing that the only thing that I really

00:44:50.539 --> 00:44:54.380
had to fear was not making the most of my life

00:44:54.380 --> 00:44:57.320
and going to my deathbed next time with regrets.

00:44:57.420 --> 00:45:00.530
And so now... I get to live this life where I'm

00:45:00.530 --> 00:45:04.250
free from the fears and all I get to do is focus

00:45:04.250 --> 00:45:07.389
on how I'm going to enrich my life, enrich the

00:45:07.389 --> 00:45:10.670
lives of the people around me and make sure that

00:45:10.670 --> 00:45:13.230
I go to my deathbed next time feeling exactly

00:45:13.230 --> 00:45:16.010
the same way I did that first time. Yeah. Well,

00:45:16.050 --> 00:45:19.250
that's so powerful. I had a palliative care hospice

00:45:19.250 --> 00:45:22.969
physician on. And a couple of times. And he's

00:45:22.969 --> 00:45:25.190
actually a triple amputee himself. Very long

00:45:25.190 --> 00:45:28.389
story short, he touched the electrical wire on

00:45:28.389 --> 00:45:32.110
a cable car in Princeton and it arched through

00:45:32.110 --> 00:45:34.210
his wristwatch and he lost both legs and one

00:45:34.210 --> 00:45:39.369
arm. And, you know, so his kind of doctor focus

00:45:39.369 --> 00:45:41.690
went to palliative care because he was a palliative

00:45:41.690 --> 00:45:43.650
care patient, obviously a very long term one.

00:45:43.969 --> 00:45:47.510
But in the discussions about all the people he'd

00:45:47.510 --> 00:45:51.199
seen pass, it was the same observation. If people

00:45:51.199 --> 00:45:53.719
felt that they had fulfilled and had achieved

00:45:53.719 --> 00:45:56.880
what they wanted to in their lives, their deaths

00:45:56.880 --> 00:45:58.780
were actually very peaceful. And he said the

00:45:58.780 --> 00:46:00.739
ones that struggled the most were the ones that

00:46:00.739 --> 00:46:02.820
hadn't had the courage to chase their goals.

00:46:02.940 --> 00:46:05.179
And it was the regret itself that was actually

00:46:05.179 --> 00:46:10.559
haunting them. Yeah. Or even not chasing your

00:46:10.559 --> 00:46:13.420
goals, but smaller things like unresolved issues

00:46:13.420 --> 00:46:16.389
with your family and friends. where, you know,

00:46:16.429 --> 00:46:19.170
you'd wished for years that you'd made up with

00:46:19.170 --> 00:46:21.429
a family member you'd been fighting with, but

00:46:21.429 --> 00:46:25.130
you just never went ahead and did it. And you

00:46:25.130 --> 00:46:27.550
go to your deathbed with that one regret. I wish

00:46:27.550 --> 00:46:30.389
I'd reconnected with my dad, my daughter or something

00:46:30.389 --> 00:46:34.030
like that. And so my advice would be to never,

00:46:34.070 --> 00:46:37.670
ever let those things just stagnate because you

00:46:37.670 --> 00:46:40.269
never know what's going to happen. It could be

00:46:40.269 --> 00:46:41.650
tomorrow. It could be next year. It could be

00:46:41.650 --> 00:46:44.539
10 years from now. But that's... The thing about

00:46:44.539 --> 00:46:46.699
life, you'll never know when it's going to come

00:46:46.699 --> 00:46:50.199
for you. So make sure that you do the right thing

00:46:50.199 --> 00:46:55.099
to fulfill your soul. And sometimes that's just

00:46:55.099 --> 00:46:58.260
by doing the hardest thing, which is asking for

00:46:58.260 --> 00:47:01.599
forgiveness or saying you're sorry. But it makes

00:47:01.599 --> 00:47:04.900
the world of difference to your soul. Yeah, beautiful.

00:47:05.119 --> 00:47:08.340
Well, thank you for that insight. Just from an

00:47:08.340 --> 00:47:10.639
emergency medicine point of view, were there

00:47:10.639 --> 00:47:14.440
any... Any things that happened from when you

00:47:14.440 --> 00:47:17.519
were pulled up onto the boat onwards that you

00:47:17.519 --> 00:47:19.679
credit with saving your life? Any kind of takeaways

00:47:19.679 --> 00:47:22.219
for the medics and Corman and everyone else that's

00:47:22.219 --> 00:47:25.079
listening from a medical perspective? Yes, so

00:47:25.079 --> 00:47:31.710
much. We had an oxy -viva in the boat. We had

00:47:31.710 --> 00:47:34.530
a minimal med kit. We didn't have a tourniquet.

00:47:34.650 --> 00:47:37.869
And so the guys took their t -shirts off of their

00:47:37.869 --> 00:47:40.670
back. And so my whole hamstring was almost surgically

00:47:40.670 --> 00:47:44.710
removed. And so while I, because I was headed

00:47:44.710 --> 00:47:46.909
towards the bow of the Zodiac and there's not

00:47:46.909 --> 00:47:49.429
a lot of room in that. And so I'm tourniqueting

00:47:49.429 --> 00:47:52.510
the end of my arm with my left hand as tight

00:47:52.510 --> 00:47:54.929
as I can. The guys in the boat had taken off

00:47:54.929 --> 00:47:57.170
their t -shirts, jammed that into the wound.

00:47:57.719 --> 00:48:00.000
and then strapped it down with straps from a

00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:05.019
life jacket. But by the time we got to the big

00:48:05.019 --> 00:48:07.480
wharf at the Navy base, which wasn't far away,

00:48:07.539 --> 00:48:10.880
it was 100 metres away, but it was towering 10

00:48:10.880 --> 00:48:13.559
feet over the water. And so they had to build

00:48:13.559 --> 00:48:15.659
this whole ramp out of wood with these builders

00:48:15.659 --> 00:48:19.989
at an emergency rate to get me up there. The

00:48:19.989 --> 00:48:22.610
boat was an inch deep in my blood. My chief who

00:48:22.610 --> 00:48:25.030
was on the wharf with the scientists already

00:48:25.030 --> 00:48:27.750
thought I was dead. It wasn't until he saw me

00:48:27.750 --> 00:48:31.349
like move that he knew I was alive, but he could

00:48:31.349 --> 00:48:34.550
see that I was still leaking blood out of my

00:48:34.550 --> 00:48:36.730
leg and he took the strap off and there was an

00:48:36.730 --> 00:48:40.130
artery squirting. And so he had to grab the new

00:48:40.130 --> 00:48:43.690
guy and get him to stick his hand inside my leg

00:48:43.690 --> 00:48:45.670
and pinch close that artery with his fingers

00:48:45.670 --> 00:48:48.090
and hold it for 10 minutes until the paramedics

00:48:48.090 --> 00:48:50.860
arrived. And by the time the paramedics got there,

00:48:50.980 --> 00:48:56.260
I was in total agony. And so they drug me up

00:48:56.260 --> 00:48:59.699
with morphine. But because I'd lost so much blood,

00:48:59.920 --> 00:49:03.000
they couldn't give me enough to get rid of most

00:49:03.000 --> 00:49:05.440
of the pain. And so I'm in the ambulance on the

00:49:05.440 --> 00:49:07.940
way to the hospital begging for more morphine,

00:49:07.960 --> 00:49:10.820
but they couldn't give it to me. And then all

00:49:10.820 --> 00:49:13.679
of a sudden, the morphine hit, the pain went

00:49:13.679 --> 00:49:17.860
away, but I didn't have. enough energy to make

00:49:17.860 --> 00:49:20.519
my chest go up and down. And I couldn't talk

00:49:20.519 --> 00:49:23.539
louder than a whisper. So I had to try and communicate

00:49:23.539 --> 00:49:25.960
with the paramedic that I couldn't breathe. And

00:49:25.960 --> 00:49:28.099
so he coached me through it, basically said,

00:49:28.260 --> 00:49:33.550
Paul, save your energy, take small... Small,

00:49:33.550 --> 00:49:35.869
short breaths. Take as many as you can. And then

00:49:35.869 --> 00:49:37.909
when you've got enough energy, take one big breath

00:49:37.909 --> 00:49:41.030
and fill your lungs with air. And so it kind

00:49:41.030 --> 00:49:44.849
of became a bit of a Lamaze class. Put your friend's

00:49:44.849 --> 00:49:49.449
finger up your junk. Yeah. And that really got

00:49:49.449 --> 00:49:52.150
me through because I actually felt like I was

00:49:52.150 --> 00:49:54.570
going to die because I couldn't breathe. But

00:49:54.570 --> 00:49:57.900
that really helped. By the time we got to the

00:49:57.900 --> 00:50:00.000
hospital, which is about 15 minutes away, I was

00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:02.699
fairly stabilized. I was stabilized enough to,

00:50:02.780 --> 00:50:05.380
the doctor was running alongside my trolley and

00:50:05.380 --> 00:50:07.400
I was trying to bribe him with a case of beer

00:50:07.400 --> 00:50:12.820
to save my leg, as military people do. But after

00:50:12.820 --> 00:50:17.340
that, I blanked out. I was in an induced coma

00:50:17.340 --> 00:50:22.300
for the next two days. I think they put 300 donations

00:50:22.300 --> 00:50:26.619
of blood into me. So 150 liters, just as soon

00:50:26.619 --> 00:50:28.559
as I put it in, it would just squirt back out.

00:50:28.760 --> 00:50:31.380
And so they're just, you know, you could have

00:50:31.380 --> 00:50:34.039
the best doctors in the world, but if you don't

00:50:34.039 --> 00:50:37.800
have that donated blood by those amazing people,

00:50:37.900 --> 00:50:41.219
then you're not going to live. And so. Thank

00:50:41.219 --> 00:50:43.980
you to everyone that donates blood, donates plasma.

00:50:44.780 --> 00:50:48.579
You are legitimately saving lives. It's taken

00:50:48.579 --> 00:50:51.199
me quite some time to repay those 300 donations,

00:50:51.320 --> 00:50:54.000
but I'm chipping away at it. You know what's

00:50:54.000 --> 00:50:56.300
really sad is being English, I can't donate blood.

00:50:56.809 --> 00:50:59.230
And I've got quite vascular arms, too. So you

00:50:59.230 --> 00:51:01.130
can tell that the blood bank people get a little

00:51:01.130 --> 00:51:03.809
tingle in their pants when they see me. But I

00:51:03.809 --> 00:51:06.849
got the mad cow. Exactly. Exactly. You know,

00:51:06.909 --> 00:51:08.750
it was I mean, it was a thing, definitely. But

00:51:08.750 --> 00:51:11.250
it was a very long time ago. And I guess they've

00:51:11.250 --> 00:51:14.010
just never put enough energy in the research

00:51:14.010 --> 00:51:17.469
to to, you know, to take my blood and make sure

00:51:17.469 --> 00:51:19.510
it's OK. But, yeah, I physically have never be

00:51:19.510 --> 00:51:21.449
able to give a drop. And it's sad. You know,

00:51:21.489 --> 00:51:24.190
I would love to. I do it whenever I go home and

00:51:24.190 --> 00:51:26.510
I give plasma. Beautiful. Yeah, I guess I could

00:51:26.510 --> 00:51:28.889
do it if they ever let me to go home again when

00:51:28.889 --> 00:51:33.989
the borders open up. All right. So I live in

00:51:33.989 --> 00:51:36.250
Florida. I'm in Ocala, which is right in the

00:51:36.250 --> 00:51:40.469
heart of the state. Gotcha. So, yeah, I moved

00:51:40.469 --> 00:51:43.090
over here about just almost 20 years ago. Great

00:51:43.090 --> 00:51:45.210
shocks over in Florida. Yeah, we've got some

00:51:45.210 --> 00:51:48.369
super ones over here. we'll have to talk about

00:51:48.369 --> 00:51:49.869
that in a minute actually one of my guests was

00:51:49.869 --> 00:51:52.170
bethany hamilton too so yeah she's the second

00:51:52.170 --> 00:51:55.670
hamilton well oh you do yeah she's amazing amazing

00:51:55.670 --> 00:51:57.889
i mean as are you and this is a beautiful thing

00:51:57.889 --> 00:51:59.750
with both of you that i'm sure we'll get to that

00:51:59.750 --> 00:52:01.230
in a bit but you know the fact that you went

00:52:01.230 --> 00:52:03.789
back in the water and and you know all the people

00:52:03.789 --> 00:52:05.530
that haven't been bitten think they never would

00:52:05.530 --> 00:52:07.889
and the two that actually were both ended up

00:52:07.889 --> 00:52:11.210
you know being advocates for sharks yeah i think

00:52:11.210 --> 00:52:13.570
that's a fairly common theme as well because

00:52:14.199 --> 00:52:16.300
the people that do get attacked by sharks are

00:52:16.300 --> 00:52:19.820
more often than not ocean people. And we go into

00:52:19.820 --> 00:52:22.539
the ocean knowing the risks and accepting them.

00:52:22.719 --> 00:52:25.940
And so you can't really get upset when something

00:52:25.940 --> 00:52:27.900
goes wrong. You know, every time you go into

00:52:27.900 --> 00:52:31.699
the ocean, it's a wild place. Anything could

00:52:31.699 --> 00:52:35.440
go wrong. And so you're signing this waiver really

00:52:35.440 --> 00:52:37.699
to say, okay, I accept this, whatever happens.

00:52:37.860 --> 00:52:40.380
And so you don't blame the shark for being sharks.

00:52:40.500 --> 00:52:45.000
They're just sharks doing sharky shit. So, yeah,

00:52:45.059 --> 00:52:47.099
I think that's a pretty common theme amongst

00:52:47.099 --> 00:52:50.159
shark attack survivors. Yeah, I always find it

00:52:50.159 --> 00:52:52.019
weird, you know, when you did have an attack

00:52:52.019 --> 00:52:54.199
and then, you know, the fishermen would find

00:52:54.199 --> 00:52:56.880
a shark, they'd say it was the shark, and they'd

00:52:56.880 --> 00:52:58.280
catch it and kill it. And they'd be like, all

00:52:58.280 --> 00:52:59.960
right, problem solved. And I'm like, what, is

00:52:59.960 --> 00:53:02.679
it really? I mean, from what I understand, the

00:53:02.679 --> 00:53:04.380
ocean is quite a big place. And I'm pretty sure

00:53:04.380 --> 00:53:07.260
that shark had mates and family. And I don't

00:53:07.260 --> 00:53:08.780
think you saw that you just made yourself feel

00:53:08.780 --> 00:53:12.000
better. Yeah, it's really a ridiculous mindset.

00:53:12.260 --> 00:53:15.679
It's all about, you know, the government does

00:53:15.679 --> 00:53:18.760
it a lot in Australia. They cull sharks. They

00:53:18.760 --> 00:53:21.119
don't call it a cull, but they put all these

00:53:21.119 --> 00:53:23.960
nets out all over the beaches and the nets don't

00:53:23.960 --> 00:53:26.139
go to the ocean floor. They only go a couple

00:53:26.139 --> 00:53:28.039
of hundred meters wide. They don't stop the sharks

00:53:28.039 --> 00:53:30.340
from getting into the beach. It's just to make

00:53:30.340 --> 00:53:33.760
it look like they're doing something. Yeah. Well,

00:53:33.840 --> 00:53:36.260
with your journey, so you were obviously, you

00:53:36.260 --> 00:53:39.780
know. an uber athlete in the military sense prior

00:53:39.780 --> 00:53:43.300
to this event tell me about your your journey

00:53:43.300 --> 00:53:45.619
physically but also your journey mentally because

00:53:45.619 --> 00:53:48.420
of you know your your identity had been forced

00:53:48.420 --> 00:53:54.980
to be changed yeah um look very early on i decided

00:53:54.980 --> 00:54:02.579
that if i was going to be able to mentally overcome

00:54:02.579 --> 00:54:06.639
this I needed to still have some semblance of

00:54:06.639 --> 00:54:10.119
value and purpose and the best way that I could

00:54:10.119 --> 00:54:13.380
achieve that would be by getting back to work

00:54:13.380 --> 00:54:17.980
and I was fortunate that because it was such

00:54:17.980 --> 00:54:21.059
a huge media event you know no clearance diver

00:54:21.059 --> 00:54:24.159
had ever been attacked by a shark no one had

00:54:24.159 --> 00:54:26.440
been attacked in Sydney Harbour in 60 years so

00:54:26.440 --> 00:54:29.599
this was worldwide news and even bigger in Australia

00:54:29.599 --> 00:54:33.260
and so The chief of Navy, I don't know, I guess

00:54:33.260 --> 00:54:34.980
to save face, to make it look like they were

00:54:34.980 --> 00:54:37.019
doing something, he said as long as I wanted

00:54:37.019 --> 00:54:39.760
a job in the Navy, I would have one. I don't

00:54:39.760 --> 00:54:42.559
think he realized I wanted my old job back, but

00:54:42.559 --> 00:54:48.239
that was the case. And so I went into my recovery

00:54:48.239 --> 00:54:52.440
determined to go back to the Navy clearance divers.

00:54:53.000 --> 00:54:57.039
And much of the time, I didn't believe that was

00:54:57.039 --> 00:55:00.320
possible. And a lot of people told me it was

00:55:00.320 --> 00:55:04.900
not impossible. But not all of your goals and

00:55:04.900 --> 00:55:08.039
dreams have to be possible in that moment. You

00:55:08.039 --> 00:55:10.619
just have to work towards them. You have to create

00:55:10.619 --> 00:55:14.039
small goals and challenges to get you on the

00:55:14.039 --> 00:55:18.579
road to that dream. And so it was really rough.

00:55:19.860 --> 00:55:23.000
I had so much drugs pumping into me. I had a

00:55:23.000 --> 00:55:26.239
bulb of ketamine. um continuously draining into

00:55:26.239 --> 00:55:29.199
my bloodstream i had morphine on tap and so a

00:55:29.199 --> 00:55:31.780
lot of the time i was tripping out i was delirious

00:55:31.780 --> 00:55:37.519
um but day by day um you know and i was so lucky

00:55:37.519 --> 00:55:40.019
to have such an incredible group of friends and

00:55:40.019 --> 00:55:42.699
family that came to my bed they kept me company

00:55:42.699 --> 00:55:45.219
they kept my spirits up my buddy would sneak

00:55:45.219 --> 00:55:47.360
in a bottle of beer and i'd have a morphine shot

00:55:50.269 --> 00:55:52.889
And day by day, I started, you know, I could

00:55:52.889 --> 00:55:56.730
get up out of bed. And so I would hop around

00:55:56.730 --> 00:55:58.710
the nurse's station. I'd go out into the hallway

00:55:58.710 --> 00:56:01.769
and I would see how fast I could hop around the

00:56:01.769 --> 00:56:04.949
Navy ward. And I freaked out a lot of the nurses.

00:56:05.369 --> 00:56:08.829
But my mates brought in protein. They brought

00:56:08.829 --> 00:56:12.429
in weights for me. I sweet -talked the nurses

00:56:12.429 --> 00:56:15.550
into giving me double rations because I'd lost.

00:56:17.269 --> 00:56:20.690
10 kilos in 10 minutes. This is not a weight

00:56:20.690 --> 00:56:23.769
loss regime I would recommend, but I needed to

00:56:23.769 --> 00:56:26.110
bulk up and get strong. I needed to keep my mind

00:56:26.110 --> 00:56:29.309
active. So I read a lot and I needed to know

00:56:29.309 --> 00:56:33.929
that there were tools out there that could help

00:56:33.929 --> 00:56:36.869
me achieve my goal. And so I spent a lot of time

00:56:36.869 --> 00:56:39.969
on this incredible thing called the internet.

00:56:41.710 --> 00:56:44.449
There's no reason for you not to know anything

00:56:44.449 --> 00:56:47.210
anymore. We live in such an incredible age where

00:56:47.210 --> 00:56:49.550
we have the wealth of the world's knowledge within

00:56:49.550 --> 00:56:52.309
a few keystrokes. And so I utilized that and

00:56:52.309 --> 00:56:55.590
I looked at videos of Paralympic athletes doing

00:56:55.590 --> 00:56:58.389
incredible things in sport. I watched videos

00:56:58.389 --> 00:57:01.150
of these dudes with no legs climbing mountains

00:57:01.150 --> 00:57:05.170
on their hands. And so the more research I did,

00:57:05.250 --> 00:57:07.710
the more it dispelled the fear that I wouldn't

00:57:07.710 --> 00:57:12.360
be able to live the way I wanted to. And so that

00:57:12.360 --> 00:57:15.659
really buoyed me, just knowing that if these

00:57:15.659 --> 00:57:18.960
people can do it, there's no reason that I can't

00:57:18.960 --> 00:57:22.960
do it as well. And so after nine weeks. I went

00:57:22.960 --> 00:57:25.619
home. They wanted me to stay a little bit longer,

00:57:25.739 --> 00:57:28.559
but I convinced them that I would recover better

00:57:28.559 --> 00:57:31.860
at home under my own steam in my own bed. I had

00:57:31.860 --> 00:57:33.820
a very good friend of mine, Brock, who moved

00:57:33.820 --> 00:57:36.460
in with me and acted as my carer. It didn't hurt

00:57:36.460 --> 00:57:40.159
that he was a chef as well. So he cooked and

00:57:40.159 --> 00:57:43.500
he drove me off to the army gym every day so

00:57:43.500 --> 00:57:47.619
I could learn to use my body again. And I had

00:57:47.619 --> 00:57:50.519
to, as the army taught me, I had to improvise,

00:57:50.519 --> 00:57:54.800
adapt and overcome. Because having one hand and

00:57:54.800 --> 00:57:59.579
doing bench press and push -ups can really mess

00:57:59.579 --> 00:58:02.559
with what you're trying to achieve. And so I

00:58:02.559 --> 00:58:05.519
had to work out new ways to do things. And so

00:58:05.519 --> 00:58:07.869
I got on the internet once again. found this

00:58:07.869 --> 00:58:10.409
lifting hook that people use for deadlifts. And

00:58:10.409 --> 00:58:13.670
I could slip that over my forearm and I could

00:58:13.670 --> 00:58:15.909
put a dumbbell in it and I could do curls like

00:58:15.909 --> 00:58:18.349
that. Or I could put the hook into the cables

00:58:18.349 --> 00:58:21.289
and I could do flies and triceps. And so just

00:58:21.289 --> 00:58:24.289
by spending more and more time in the gym and

00:58:24.289 --> 00:58:26.949
just experimenting, I learned better and better

00:58:26.949 --> 00:58:30.610
ways to use this new body that I had to rebuild

00:58:30.610 --> 00:58:33.570
it, make it stronger. And then as time went on,

00:58:33.590 --> 00:58:37.840
I also was given prosthetics, which helped. insurmountably

00:58:37.840 --> 00:58:42.320
because hopping sucks. My balance is good. My

00:58:42.320 --> 00:58:44.840
left leg strength is amazing, but hopping still

00:58:44.840 --> 00:58:48.519
sucks. It's much better to walk. Well, it's fascinating.

00:58:48.960 --> 00:58:52.639
I've had so many incredible men and women that

00:58:52.639 --> 00:58:55.360
are amputees. Some are military that were wounded.

00:58:55.440 --> 00:58:59.960
Some were congenital amputees. And seeing the...

00:59:00.250 --> 00:59:02.469
the journey of the adaptive athletes, especially

00:59:02.469 --> 00:59:04.929
over the last five years, you know, with, you

00:59:04.929 --> 00:59:06.789
know, with the movements really becoming popular,

00:59:06.849 --> 00:59:08.869
with their having, you know, competitions for

00:59:08.869 --> 00:59:12.909
adaptive outside of, you know, the Paralympics

00:59:12.909 --> 00:59:15.309
that we had before that. What have you witnessed

00:59:15.309 --> 00:59:18.670
over the evolution of prostheses and just the

00:59:18.670 --> 00:59:21.750
adaptive community in general? Well, fortunately,

00:59:21.809 --> 00:59:25.769
I came into it in an era, sadly, where we're

00:59:25.769 --> 00:59:29.269
in the middle of a war. But because of that,

00:59:29.309 --> 00:59:32.130
there were so many American soldiers coming home

00:59:32.130 --> 00:59:34.789
missing limbs that the American government had

00:59:34.789 --> 00:59:37.949
thrown billions of dollars into helping these

00:59:37.949 --> 00:59:41.590
prosthetic companies make better devices. And

00:59:41.590 --> 00:59:44.889
so I came into it with, you know, there's never

00:59:44.889 --> 00:59:48.630
been a better leg or hand prosthetic in the world,

00:59:48.710 --> 00:59:52.849
and I get the best. And so very fortunate in

00:59:52.849 --> 00:59:56.110
that realm. But it's funny now that there's no,

00:59:56.190 --> 00:59:59.119
you know, no. surface war that people are talking

00:59:59.119 --> 01:00:01.500
about a lot of that funding has dried up and

01:00:01.500 --> 01:00:05.179
so has the the advances in those prosthetics

01:00:05.179 --> 01:00:07.659
they're very they're like apple iphones now whereas

01:00:07.659 --> 01:00:10.800
it's like it's a tiny upgrade on the next limb

01:00:10.800 --> 01:00:13.380
whereas before it was these huge upgrades like

01:00:13.380 --> 01:00:15.940
now now your prosthetic is waterproof now your

01:00:15.940 --> 01:00:18.300
prosthetic has a running mode now it's kind of

01:00:18.300 --> 01:00:22.820
stale But thank God for smart people being able

01:00:22.820 --> 01:00:25.039
to make these things because if it was up to

01:00:25.039 --> 01:00:27.659
me, I'd make a great pirate at Halloween, but

01:00:27.659 --> 01:00:31.559
that's about it. So with all the things that

01:00:31.559 --> 01:00:34.400
you had to relearn, was there any that kind of

01:00:34.400 --> 01:00:36.380
spring to mind that were the most challenging,

01:00:36.619 --> 01:00:38.840
the biggest achievement when you finally got

01:00:38.840 --> 01:00:41.659
it? Yeah, the dumb things that you don't think

01:00:41.659 --> 01:00:44.420
of because I was right -handed. So now I had

01:00:44.420 --> 01:00:46.940
to learn how to do not everything just left -handed.

01:00:47.289 --> 01:00:51.369
but only left -handed and weird things like brushing

01:00:51.369 --> 01:00:54.849
your teeth. Like I didn't have that fine motor

01:00:54.849 --> 01:00:57.409
movement and I kept jabbing myself in the gum,

01:00:57.530 --> 01:01:03.170
learning to drive and control the pedal with

01:01:03.170 --> 01:01:05.670
my left foot. You know, I was bunny hopping down

01:01:05.670 --> 01:01:08.030
the street for the first week because your left

01:01:08.030 --> 01:01:09.889
foot doesn't have that sensitivity. It's either

01:01:09.889 --> 01:01:12.090
on the clutch or it's just slowly coming off.

01:01:12.309 --> 01:01:15.030
But yeah, it's just little things like that.

01:01:15.110 --> 01:01:17.690
You know, having one hand. using a dustpan and

01:01:17.690 --> 01:01:21.909
broom still has it over me. That's always a pain

01:01:21.909 --> 01:01:24.130
in the ass anyway, no matter who you are. Yeah,

01:01:24.210 --> 01:01:26.769
I just break out the vacuum cleaner. All right.

01:01:26.769 --> 01:01:28.630
Well, then you were hell -bent on, you know,

01:01:28.650 --> 01:01:30.730
obviously getting your old job back. So kind

01:01:30.730 --> 01:01:33.570
of walk me through that journey into the training

01:01:33.570 --> 01:01:36.730
side and then carry on to your decision to transition

01:01:36.730 --> 01:01:45.230
out. So after six months, six months after the

01:01:45.230 --> 01:01:49.300
attack, I felt like I was ready. I had my prosthetic

01:01:49.300 --> 01:01:51.559
leg. I had my prosthetic hand. I trained myself

01:01:51.559 --> 01:01:55.780
into a pretty ridiculous level of fitness. And

01:01:55.780 --> 01:01:58.960
all I wanted to do was go back to work. Six months

01:01:58.960 --> 01:02:00.900
of not doing anything except just working out

01:02:00.900 --> 01:02:03.099
and being left with your own thoughts. And it

01:02:03.099 --> 01:02:07.780
can get really exhausting. And trying to overcome

01:02:07.780 --> 01:02:10.260
a lot of the self -confidence issues as well,

01:02:10.340 --> 01:02:14.980
like every time I left the house. everyone was

01:02:14.980 --> 01:02:18.539
staring at me and so whether they knew I was

01:02:18.539 --> 01:02:20.260
or not it didn't matter because there's this

01:02:20.260 --> 01:02:23.199
there's this guy with one leg and a robot leg

01:02:23.199 --> 01:02:25.039
and a robot hand walking down the street and

01:02:25.039 --> 01:02:29.880
so everyone stares at you and so overcoming that

01:02:29.880 --> 01:02:32.440
was very hard that was the first step and I realized

01:02:32.440 --> 01:02:34.940
look I can't control whether they're going to

01:02:34.940 --> 01:02:38.000
look at me or not but what I can control to some

01:02:38.000 --> 01:02:41.639
degree is how they perceive me Now, I can walk

01:02:41.639 --> 01:02:44.739
around feeling the pain and I can be worried

01:02:44.739 --> 01:02:46.480
about what they're thinking and my head would

01:02:46.480 --> 01:02:49.420
be down and my shoulders would slump and they'll

01:02:49.420 --> 01:02:53.579
look at me and say, oh, that poor guy. Or I could

01:02:53.579 --> 01:02:57.139
do the hard thing. I could walk and practice

01:02:57.139 --> 01:03:00.880
my walking to a degree where I look like I'm

01:03:00.880 --> 01:03:03.639
walking almost normal. I can pin my shoulders

01:03:03.639 --> 01:03:06.900
back. I can hold my head high. And if they look

01:03:06.900 --> 01:03:10.579
at me, I can just smile at them. and you'd be

01:03:10.579 --> 01:03:13.760
amazed how quickly that smile gets reflected

01:03:13.760 --> 01:03:16.820
back. Or if I'm not feeling like smiling at anyone

01:03:16.820 --> 01:03:19.380
because I'm in a shit mood, I just won't look

01:03:19.380 --> 01:03:22.219
at anyone. And that way I learned to enjoy all

01:03:22.219 --> 01:03:23.900
the things around me. I was living at Bondi,

01:03:23.900 --> 01:03:25.760
so I'd look at the water, I'd look at the trees,

01:03:25.880 --> 01:03:28.019
I'd look at the dogs playing. And so that got

01:03:28.019 --> 01:03:30.280
me through the confidence issues to the point

01:03:30.280 --> 01:03:32.179
where I'm like, okay, I want to go back to work.

01:03:32.300 --> 01:03:34.820
And I went to the dive school. Sorry, I went

01:03:34.820 --> 01:03:38.260
to my team boss, and I said, hey, boss. can I

01:03:38.260 --> 01:03:42.940
come back to work? And he said, no. He said,

01:03:42.940 --> 01:03:46.300
to go to the dive teams, you have to be deployable

01:03:46.300 --> 01:03:49.420
for war. And I said, look, I understand that.

01:03:49.719 --> 01:03:52.559
I'm not as fleet on my feet as I once was, and

01:03:52.559 --> 01:03:55.960
my trigger finger doesn't even work. So I get

01:03:55.960 --> 01:03:59.039
that. But there was one thing I learned from

01:03:59.039 --> 01:04:02.059
watching an old Navy diver staple of a movie,

01:04:02.179 --> 01:04:05.179
which is Men of Honor. Maybe I could go and teach.

01:04:05.929 --> 01:04:08.269
And I said, why don't you let me pass on this

01:04:08.269 --> 01:04:11.750
knowledge to the next generation of divers and

01:04:11.750 --> 01:04:16.510
repay all of this information that you've given

01:04:16.510 --> 01:04:19.130
to me and maybe even inspire some of them as

01:04:19.130 --> 01:04:21.489
well. And so they thought about it for a while.

01:04:21.750 --> 01:04:24.130
And then they gave me this series of hoops I

01:04:24.130 --> 01:04:26.329
had to jump through. And I passed them all. I

01:04:26.329 --> 01:04:28.269
passed my physical fitness. I passed my medical.

01:04:28.769 --> 01:04:32.110
I passed getting on to the moving dive boats

01:04:32.110 --> 01:04:34.190
and things like that. And they couldn't say no.

01:04:35.099 --> 01:04:36.800
They said, all right, Paul, you can work three

01:04:36.800 --> 01:04:39.739
half days a week. And so I just turned up five

01:04:39.739 --> 01:04:43.559
full days a week and just didn't go home until

01:04:43.559 --> 01:04:46.099
I had to. And, you know, I had something to prove

01:04:46.099 --> 01:04:47.840
to them, but I also had something to prove to

01:04:47.840 --> 01:04:50.559
myself that I could still mix it up with my buddies

01:04:50.559 --> 01:04:53.480
and do the job that I'm hired to do. And so I

01:04:53.480 --> 01:04:57.380
put my heart and my soul into achieving that.

01:04:58.159 --> 01:05:02.550
Beautiful. Now with Bethany, obviously she. She

01:05:02.550 --> 01:05:04.650
went back in, I think it was her parents filmed

01:05:04.650 --> 01:05:06.309
the first time that she went back in the ocean.

01:05:06.409 --> 01:05:09.250
And again, with her mindset, she was offered

01:05:09.250 --> 01:05:11.250
the adaptive divisions and she was like, no,

01:05:11.329 --> 01:05:13.989
I'm a surfer. I'm going to surf in the regular

01:05:13.989 --> 01:05:17.289
divisions. Did you have a moment like that when

01:05:17.289 --> 01:05:20.110
you first entered the ocean specifically? Was

01:05:20.110 --> 01:05:23.130
there any hesitation or had you already that

01:05:23.130 --> 01:05:25.670
kind of making peace with death, taking that

01:05:25.670 --> 01:05:29.210
trepidation out of it? Yeah, that was more the

01:05:29.210 --> 01:05:31.849
case. It was actually three months to the day

01:05:31.849 --> 01:05:35.630
after the shark attack. It only took me that

01:05:35.630 --> 01:05:37.610
long because I still had the stitches and staples

01:05:37.610 --> 01:05:39.210
in my leg and I couldn't go into the water with

01:05:39.210 --> 01:05:42.070
them. As soon as they were out, I grabbed my

01:05:42.070 --> 01:05:44.789
two buddies. We went down to Bondi with the surfboards

01:05:44.789 --> 01:05:48.909
and I hopped down through the soft sand and got

01:05:48.909 --> 01:05:51.349
to the water and everyone was staring at me and

01:05:51.349 --> 01:05:56.320
the paparazzi were taking photos. It's difficult

01:05:56.320 --> 01:05:58.800
enough to hop through soft sand with an eight

01:05:58.800 --> 01:06:01.239
-foot surfboard, but then trying to hop down

01:06:01.239 --> 01:06:04.260
through the water as well was even harder. But

01:06:04.260 --> 01:06:06.179
I pulled it off without falling over and embarrassing

01:06:06.179 --> 01:06:09.539
myself. And I put my board down into the water

01:06:09.539 --> 01:06:12.360
and I whispered to myself, please don't let me

01:06:12.360 --> 01:06:17.320
paddle around in a circle. And I didn't. I got

01:06:17.320 --> 01:06:20.000
smashed by every wave for about 45 minutes. But

01:06:20.000 --> 01:06:22.579
eventually I got out the back. And I was in the

01:06:22.579 --> 01:06:26.219
sun with my mates in the ocean. And I was living.

01:06:26.400 --> 01:06:29.880
And it felt so fucking good just to be out there.

01:06:29.940 --> 01:06:31.880
And it didn't matter if I got smashed. It didn't

01:06:31.880 --> 01:06:33.980
matter if I couldn't stand up. I just laid on

01:06:33.980 --> 01:06:35.880
my stomach and enjoyed the water and the sun.

01:06:36.699 --> 01:06:39.019
Beautiful. I mean, that's incredible. Because

01:06:39.019 --> 01:06:42.260
I mean, even myself, I love the ocean. It's definitely

01:06:42.260 --> 01:06:45.079
one of my happy places. And it's interesting.

01:06:45.300 --> 01:06:46.840
If you're distracted, if I'm playing with my

01:06:46.840 --> 01:06:49.469
son, if I'm, you know. Body surfing even, I'm

01:06:49.469 --> 01:06:51.130
not thinking about it. But when you're out there

01:06:51.130 --> 01:06:52.730
and you're swimming around, you let your little

01:06:52.730 --> 01:06:55.150
mind start going, you know, there's that fear.

01:06:55.250 --> 01:06:57.389
But just like you said, it's completely out of

01:06:57.389 --> 01:06:59.789
your control. You're in their playground. You

01:06:59.789 --> 01:07:02.510
know, if it happens, it happens. But you can't

01:07:02.510 --> 01:07:06.469
let that fear dictate all the incredible swims

01:07:06.469 --> 01:07:08.469
that you could have on the what if scenario.

01:07:08.929 --> 01:07:11.670
Yeah, it's such a rare occurrence. You know,

01:07:11.769 --> 01:07:15.730
it's really, really, you got more chance of winning

01:07:15.730 --> 01:07:18.800
the lottery, really. absolutely all right well

01:07:18.800 --> 01:07:21.639
then so you you know you achieved your goal of

01:07:21.639 --> 01:07:23.900
returning you ended up training you know the

01:07:23.900 --> 01:07:27.260
the people at the dive school so what at what

01:07:27.260 --> 01:07:29.460
point did you say all right it's time to it's

01:07:29.460 --> 01:07:32.780
time to move on and do something else um it was

01:07:32.780 --> 01:07:35.079
three years in so i was doing it for three years

01:07:35.079 --> 01:07:39.019
and i just you know the first year and a half

01:07:39.019 --> 01:07:43.280
was good But the second year and a half, it just

01:07:43.280 --> 01:07:46.500
started to kill me, really, because I was working

01:07:46.500 --> 01:07:49.119
myself so hard trying to keep up with everyone.

01:07:49.440 --> 01:07:52.199
And when you're teaching these courses, you're

01:07:52.199 --> 01:07:55.079
at work sometimes at 5 a .m. and you don't leave

01:07:55.079 --> 01:07:56.699
until 2 a .m. And then you've got to be back

01:07:56.699 --> 01:07:59.119
again the next day. And so it was hard enough

01:07:59.119 --> 01:08:03.039
for me to get sleep. And I was trying to get

01:08:03.039 --> 01:08:06.219
myself off the drugs very early on. And so I

01:08:06.219 --> 01:08:09.300
wasn't taking anything. Because I didn't want

01:08:09.300 --> 01:08:11.159
to get drug tested and have opiates in my system

01:08:11.159 --> 01:08:14.119
and things like that. So I had to totally stay

01:08:14.119 --> 01:08:15.980
off them and just deal with the pain mentally.

01:08:16.220 --> 01:08:19.279
But it was breaking me down piece by piece. And

01:08:19.279 --> 01:08:22.140
I was just tired and I was getting cranky and

01:08:22.140 --> 01:08:24.859
I wasn't being the instructor I wanted to be.

01:08:25.020 --> 01:08:28.180
I was being the instructor that I hated on course.

01:08:28.779 --> 01:08:31.739
And that wasn't fulfilling me. And, you know,

01:08:31.779 --> 01:08:33.899
the reason I did this was for fulfillment, for

01:08:33.899 --> 01:08:36.539
value and purpose. And I just lost that shine.

01:08:38.350 --> 01:08:40.970
All I wanted to do was go back to the teams.

01:08:41.109 --> 01:08:43.170
And so I went to the dive school boss and I asked

01:08:43.170 --> 01:08:45.949
him what the chances of that were. And he gave

01:08:45.949 --> 01:08:47.470
it to me straight. He said, under this current

01:08:47.470 --> 01:08:52.210
administration, zero. And so I'd been doing a

01:08:52.210 --> 01:08:56.130
little bit of public speaking, but I'd already

01:08:56.130 --> 01:09:00.529
started to get paid basically my two weeks Navy

01:09:00.529 --> 01:09:04.010
wage in one hour of speaking. And so I thought,

01:09:04.109 --> 01:09:08.250
okay, what do I do here? Keep putting up with

01:09:08.250 --> 01:09:11.850
this. There's no more Paul being able to go sideways

01:09:11.850 --> 01:09:14.170
into a new role. No one's going to take me. I'm

01:09:14.170 --> 01:09:15.930
only here at the dive school through the grace

01:09:15.930 --> 01:09:18.810
of the Navy. And so do I continue down this path

01:09:18.810 --> 01:09:22.149
and try to learn to love it and maintain my security

01:09:22.149 --> 01:09:26.050
blanket of a paycheck every two weeks? Or do

01:09:26.050 --> 01:09:28.970
I do something crazy? Do I do something really

01:09:28.970 --> 01:09:32.590
risky and really scary and go out and try and

01:09:32.590 --> 01:09:34.569
make a career out of this public speaking? And

01:09:34.569 --> 01:09:37.369
that was terrifying because. How I didn't know

01:09:37.369 --> 01:09:39.550
how long I would be able to do that for. How

01:09:39.550 --> 01:09:41.210
long are people going to want to hear about my

01:09:41.210 --> 01:09:44.210
stupid little story? What if I'm not good at

01:09:44.210 --> 01:09:47.210
it? And all those things, doubts crept in. But

01:09:47.210 --> 01:09:51.149
I realized every single time I'd embraced one

01:09:51.149 --> 01:09:53.789
of those really big, scary decisions like leaving

01:09:53.789 --> 01:09:56.289
home, like joining the army, like changing to

01:09:56.289 --> 01:10:00.149
the Navy. It always worked out because I threw

01:10:00.149 --> 01:10:01.970
my heart and my soul into it. And they were the

01:10:01.970 --> 01:10:04.890
best decisions that I'd ever made. And so I decided

01:10:04.890 --> 01:10:07.449
to stick with the routine and believe that I'd

01:10:07.449 --> 01:10:09.109
set a precedence. And if I'm going to do this,

01:10:09.109 --> 01:10:10.989
I'm going to go in wholeheartedly and I'm just

01:10:10.989 --> 01:10:13.510
going to make it work. And so I decided to leave

01:10:13.510 --> 01:10:17.989
the Navy and strike out with speaking. I got

01:10:17.989 --> 01:10:21.609
a book deal. then as well which helped advertise

01:10:21.609 --> 01:10:23.930
me for speaking and the speaking work picked

01:10:23.930 --> 01:10:26.289
up and I started making more and more money and

01:10:26.289 --> 01:10:28.449
getting more and more work to the point where

01:10:28.449 --> 01:10:32.649
I was making my month's navy wage times three

01:10:32.649 --> 01:10:36.550
and so I was on cloud nine I'm working hardly

01:10:36.550 --> 01:10:39.489
you know a tenth of the time I'm making twice

01:10:39.489 --> 01:10:43.329
as much money And I get to spend all of my spare

01:10:43.329 --> 01:10:45.170
time doing whatever the hell I want. And I was

01:10:45.170 --> 01:10:47.369
like, this is amazing. This is the way to live.

01:10:47.670 --> 01:10:49.750
And all it did was cost me an arm and a leg.

01:10:51.529 --> 01:10:53.909
Well, there's a lot of people that have been

01:10:53.909 --> 01:10:57.069
on here that struggle when they transition out,

01:10:57.130 --> 01:10:58.970
whether it's out of the military, fire, police,

01:10:59.170 --> 01:11:02.130
because the men and women that they serve with

01:11:02.130 --> 01:11:05.729
were their tribe. And also they identified as

01:11:05.729 --> 01:11:10.510
a police officer, a soldier. But the missing

01:11:10.510 --> 01:11:12.909
element, I think, with a lot of them is there

01:11:12.909 --> 01:11:15.470
wasn't something to immediately transition into.

01:11:15.750 --> 01:11:19.010
So did you struggle at all with losing that group

01:11:19.010 --> 01:11:22.569
or was that speaking engagement powerful enough

01:11:22.569 --> 01:11:25.789
that you made the transition easily? No, what

01:11:25.789 --> 01:11:30.409
the speaking engagements did, and I don't suffer

01:11:30.409 --> 01:11:35.270
from PTSD as far as I know. I don't have depression

01:11:35.270 --> 01:11:37.630
and I don't have nightmares. I don't have flashbacks,

01:11:37.689 --> 01:11:41.449
nothing like that. And I think that is mostly

01:11:41.449 --> 01:11:44.590
due to the case of the public speaking because

01:11:44.590 --> 01:11:46.869
I didn't have any therapy. I didn't have any

01:11:46.869 --> 01:11:50.710
counseling. But getting on stage and being able

01:11:50.710 --> 01:11:53.930
to offload all of those emotions to a crowd of

01:11:53.930 --> 01:11:57.270
people that I didn't know, I feel like that's

01:11:57.270 --> 01:12:00.949
what helped me get it all out and overcome. what

01:12:00.949 --> 01:12:06.350
could have been many more dark days um but leaving

01:12:06.350 --> 01:12:10.890
yeah leaving the military was surprising it was

01:12:10.890 --> 01:12:14.229
like having the umbilical cut one day you're

01:12:14.229 --> 01:12:16.750
there and the next you're just not and they've

01:12:16.750 --> 01:12:18.989
just moved on without you and you have no connection

01:12:18.989 --> 01:12:22.890
to them um and i stayed in as part of the reserve

01:12:22.890 --> 01:12:26.789
diving team but they only had a job every couple

01:12:26.789 --> 01:12:29.390
of months sometimes and so i still didn't have

01:12:29.930 --> 01:12:32.810
my tribe around me. I didn't have my mates. And

01:12:32.810 --> 01:12:36.890
so when I could, I would go to the Navy base

01:12:36.890 --> 01:12:39.010
in the mornings and I'd go into the gym when

01:12:39.010 --> 01:12:40.569
I knew some of them would be working out. So

01:12:40.569 --> 01:12:43.989
I maintained a minimal connection there, but

01:12:43.989 --> 01:12:46.930
yeah, it was like one second, I had this awesome

01:12:46.930 --> 01:12:49.210
crew of mates and we worked hard together and

01:12:49.210 --> 01:12:51.590
all, and then you don't, and you have to get,

01:12:51.670 --> 01:12:55.189
you really, really have to get comfortable in

01:12:55.189 --> 01:12:59.689
your own company. Which was easier for me because

01:12:59.689 --> 01:13:02.130
I've never actually minded my own company. I'm

01:13:02.130 --> 01:13:06.989
not an overtly social person unless I've had

01:13:06.989 --> 01:13:09.029
a couple of beers under my belt and then I'm

01:13:09.029 --> 01:13:13.590
like super social. But I don't mind the quiet.

01:13:13.829 --> 01:13:19.010
But it does reach a crescendo where you get lonely.

01:13:19.449 --> 01:13:22.789
And even more so when you're traveling and speaking.

01:13:23.979 --> 01:13:26.439
It's flights by yourself. It's hotel rooms by

01:13:26.439 --> 01:13:28.939
yourself. You might get an hour on stage and

01:13:28.939 --> 01:13:30.939
then maybe an hour after talking to people, but

01:13:30.939 --> 01:13:32.800
then it's back to your hotel by yourself, back

01:13:32.800 --> 01:13:35.960
on the plane, back home to yourself. And so you

01:13:35.960 --> 01:13:38.720
really do have to get comfortable with your own

01:13:38.720 --> 01:13:41.819
skin and your own thoughts. And I think that's

01:13:41.819 --> 01:13:45.760
really key to overcoming some of that stuff is.

01:13:46.170 --> 01:13:49.090
utilizing that voice in your head that we all

01:13:49.090 --> 01:13:52.930
have and ensuring that that voice is telling

01:13:52.930 --> 01:13:56.270
you positive thoughts and you're practicing putting

01:13:56.270 --> 01:13:59.189
that positivity and the positive thoughts on

01:13:59.189 --> 01:14:03.310
a cycle in your head instead of feeding yourself

01:14:03.310 --> 01:14:06.069
the negativity you know that old story about

01:14:06.069 --> 01:14:08.470
you know the two two wolves that live inside

01:14:08.470 --> 01:14:11.829
you and the one that lives is the one that you

01:14:11.829 --> 01:14:15.109
feed and so you have to feed those positive emotions

01:14:15.109 --> 01:14:17.409
and those positive thoughts and i think a lot

01:14:17.409 --> 01:14:19.750
of that comes by setting goals and challenges

01:14:19.750 --> 01:14:22.510
and then chasing after them so you have to you

01:14:22.510 --> 01:14:25.409
have to keep yourself busy beautiful yeah and

01:14:25.409 --> 01:14:27.569
with the speaking i can relate completely because

01:14:27.569 --> 01:14:30.979
i i haven't had anything you know as Not that

01:14:30.979 --> 01:14:32.819
it's a scale. I know that people talk about it

01:14:32.819 --> 01:14:34.579
all the time. You can't compare traumas. But,

01:14:34.640 --> 01:14:36.460
you know, I had stuff happen when I was young.

01:14:36.539 --> 01:14:39.020
I had stuff happen in my career. Nothing, you

01:14:39.020 --> 01:14:41.260
know, immense, but definitely things that, you

01:14:41.260 --> 01:14:45.140
know, had a weight to them. But I've always dealt

01:14:45.140 --> 01:14:47.260
very well, especially recently. And it's the

01:14:47.260 --> 01:14:49.220
same thing. Like, here we are now. I get to have

01:14:49.220 --> 01:14:51.520
an incredible conversation with you. I ended

01:14:51.520 --> 01:14:54.699
up writing a book as well. So the power of conversation,

01:14:54.899 --> 01:14:56.960
the power of storytelling, I think, is such an

01:14:56.960 --> 01:15:03.229
undervalued tool. Yeah. The thing I like about

01:15:03.229 --> 01:15:07.029
what I do on stage is it doesn't matter if you're

01:15:07.029 --> 01:15:09.090
not in the military. It doesn't matter if you

01:15:09.090 --> 01:15:12.470
haven't been through a horrific experience like

01:15:12.470 --> 01:15:15.069
me. The way that I've learned to tell it with

01:15:15.069 --> 01:15:18.149
the peaks and the troughs and the humor, especially

01:15:18.149 --> 01:15:21.270
the dark humor, there's parts of the story that

01:15:21.270 --> 01:15:24.789
will associate with other people in any part

01:15:24.789 --> 01:15:27.489
of their life, whether I'm talking about the

01:15:27.489 --> 01:15:31.729
things I went through as a kid. And showing parents

01:15:31.729 --> 01:15:34.409
that might be having that same drama with their

01:15:34.409 --> 01:15:36.630
kids that there is a light at the end of the

01:15:36.630 --> 01:15:39.090
tunnel if they just shower their kids with love

01:15:39.090 --> 01:15:40.810
and let them know that they're there and they'll

01:15:40.810 --> 01:15:43.949
always be there. You can't always control what

01:15:43.949 --> 01:15:45.170
they're going to do or what they're going to

01:15:45.170 --> 01:15:46.989
go through, but you can control the love that

01:15:46.989 --> 01:15:50.479
you give them. Simple things like that. being

01:15:50.479 --> 01:15:53.840
able to make those big scary decisions to change

01:15:53.840 --> 01:15:57.659
the scenario of your life when you're not happy.

01:15:57.720 --> 01:16:01.000
There's no reason to be stuck in a life or a

01:16:01.000 --> 01:16:03.859
job or a relationship that isn't fulfilling you.

01:16:04.079 --> 01:16:06.720
Sometimes you have to make that big scary decision

01:16:06.720 --> 01:16:11.899
to step outside that situation to fulfill your

01:16:11.899 --> 01:16:14.800
own happiness and fulfill your own dreams. And

01:16:14.800 --> 01:16:18.699
so I've had a lot of people come up to me over

01:16:18.699 --> 01:16:22.159
the years after my speaking job and people that

01:16:22.159 --> 01:16:24.739
have broken down in my arms because they've lost

01:16:24.739 --> 01:16:27.920
kids or because they've been through something

01:16:27.920 --> 01:16:31.039
insane as well, like cancer or losing loved ones

01:16:31.039 --> 01:16:34.539
or losing limbs or anything like that. So it

01:16:34.539 --> 01:16:38.319
is an absolute, absolutely fulfilling journey

01:16:38.319 --> 01:16:40.420
for me to get on stage and share these stories

01:16:40.420 --> 01:16:43.020
with people. Well, I think it's incredible. So

01:16:43.020 --> 01:16:45.520
with that journey, how did you find yourself

01:16:45.520 --> 01:16:50.810
in television? Well, Like I said, the attack

01:16:50.810 --> 01:16:55.390
was such big news that a lot of Australian TV

01:16:55.390 --> 01:17:00.270
shows wanted to talk to me about it. So 60 Minutes

01:17:00.270 --> 01:17:02.789
were first. They were filming me from the time

01:17:02.789 --> 01:17:05.390
that I was leaving hospital to going into my

01:17:05.390 --> 01:17:07.810
home and overcoming stuff and then going to work.

01:17:08.010 --> 01:17:10.909
And then they did another episode two years later

01:17:10.909 --> 01:17:13.970
and they wanted me to introduce me to the shark

01:17:13.970 --> 01:17:16.710
that nearly killed me, the bull shark. And so

01:17:16.710 --> 01:17:19.189
we went to Fiji and I learned to dive with bull

01:17:19.189 --> 01:17:21.229
sharks. And that was the first time that I actually

01:17:21.229 --> 01:17:23.810
hand fed one as well. And so over the years,

01:17:23.850 --> 01:17:25.909
I just got comfortable in front of the camera.

01:17:26.189 --> 01:17:29.609
And I think that showed, um, whenever there was

01:17:29.609 --> 01:17:31.930
a shark interaction in Australia, the media would

01:17:31.930 --> 01:17:34.369
come to me and ask me for some advice. And so

01:17:34.369 --> 01:17:38.369
out of the desire to not look like a dumb ass

01:17:38.369 --> 01:17:41.529
on television, I had to learn about sharks. And

01:17:41.529 --> 01:17:46.039
I found that the more research I did into these

01:17:46.039 --> 01:17:49.500
animals, the more I realized how little we had

01:17:49.500 --> 01:17:52.899
to fear of them and how much they have to fear

01:17:52.899 --> 01:17:57.880
from us. And so one year Discovery Channel came

01:17:57.880 --> 01:18:01.220
to me for just simply an interview. They were

01:18:01.220 --> 01:18:03.140
doing a bunch of stories about people that had

01:18:03.140 --> 01:18:05.560
survived shark attacks. And I guess they liked

01:18:05.560 --> 01:18:07.500
the way I was on camera and they flew me out

01:18:07.500 --> 01:18:10.100
to LA to be on the live talk show at the end

01:18:10.100 --> 01:18:13.260
of each night, Shark After Dark. And they liked

01:18:13.260 --> 01:18:15.579
that so much. The next year, they offered me

01:18:15.579 --> 01:18:18.539
a co -hosting job with a guy called Andy Casagrande,

01:18:18.600 --> 01:18:21.819
who's one of the world's best shark divers and

01:18:21.819 --> 01:18:24.659
cinematographers. And he taught me so much. And

01:18:24.659 --> 01:18:28.500
I had a really great showrunner called Matt Tomacheski.

01:18:28.560 --> 01:18:31.399
And they were just so incredible to work with.

01:18:31.520 --> 01:18:34.300
And I saw my first great white and I did my first

01:18:34.300 --> 01:18:37.699
cage dive with great whites. And I guess that

01:18:37.699 --> 01:18:39.979
Discovery Channel just liked what I did. And

01:18:39.979 --> 01:18:41.920
they gave me another show the next year and then

01:18:41.920 --> 01:18:45.260
another show the next year. And then Nat Geo

01:18:45.260 --> 01:18:49.600
came to me and offered me my own TV show. And

01:18:49.600 --> 01:18:52.859
my managers went to Discovery Channel just to

01:18:52.859 --> 01:18:54.619
let them know because they gave me my start.

01:18:54.880 --> 01:18:57.460
And the boss of Discovery Channel at the time

01:18:57.460 --> 01:19:00.239
said, if Paul works at Nat Geo, he'll never work

01:19:00.239 --> 01:19:04.020
on Discovery Channel again. So I got stuck in

01:19:04.020 --> 01:19:07.800
this horrible tug of war where I knew I had to

01:19:07.800 --> 01:19:10.039
make a decision and I was going to really piss

01:19:10.039 --> 01:19:14.739
off one group of very powerful TV people. But

01:19:14.739 --> 01:19:17.760
everyone I spoke to said stay with Discovery

01:19:17.760 --> 01:19:21.010
Channel. I stayed with Discovery Channel. My

01:19:21.010 --> 01:19:24.489
managers sweetened the deal. They got me a two

01:19:24.489 --> 01:19:26.829
-year contract, a two -year visa to live in America

01:19:26.829 --> 01:19:29.210
because that's something, you know, in Australia

01:19:29.210 --> 01:19:32.350
and probably the UK as well, we grew up on American

01:19:32.350 --> 01:19:35.229
television. We grew up on American movies. And

01:19:35.229 --> 01:19:38.350
so it was back to that kid before I joined the

01:19:38.350 --> 01:19:41.229
military. There's this huge, big world out there.

01:19:41.870 --> 01:19:44.250
how do I be a part of it? And all of a sudden

01:19:44.250 --> 01:19:46.630
I was getting the offer to be a part of this

01:19:46.630 --> 01:19:49.670
bigger world like America with more opportunities

01:19:49.670 --> 01:19:55.149
and more avenue for growth. And so I moved out

01:19:55.149 --> 01:19:58.510
to America and I had a bunch of speaking jobs

01:19:58.510 --> 01:20:01.470
in Australia as well over the next 18 months.

01:20:02.140 --> 01:20:05.819
And so for 18 months, I lived in Airbnbs. And

01:20:05.819 --> 01:20:08.420
this was, once again, really, really lonely time

01:20:08.420 --> 01:20:10.600
because I didn't really know anyone in America.

01:20:10.880 --> 01:20:13.159
All my friends in Australia were working. So

01:20:13.159 --> 01:20:16.300
I had a car in Australia, a car in LA, and my

01:20:16.300 --> 01:20:18.399
whole life was shoved into those cars. And I

01:20:18.399 --> 01:20:21.439
was just bouncing back and forth every few weeks.

01:20:24.220 --> 01:20:26.819
After, say, 18 months, I just I couldn't do it

01:20:26.819 --> 01:20:28.739
anymore. So I stopped taking any more Australian

01:20:28.739 --> 01:20:31.979
speaking jobs. I got an apartment in L .A. and

01:20:31.979 --> 01:20:35.699
it was almost ceremonial taking my clothes out

01:20:35.699 --> 01:20:38.420
of my suitcase and hanging them in a real closet.

01:20:38.699 --> 01:20:42.319
And I started to put down roots. I flew my dog

01:20:42.319 --> 01:20:44.220
out from Australia that my mom had been looking

01:20:44.220 --> 01:20:48.859
after. And I really designated my mindset into

01:20:48.859 --> 01:20:53.039
making this a new home. And I'm on my third.

01:20:53.399 --> 01:20:55.500
Just starting my third two -year contract with

01:20:55.500 --> 01:20:59.100
Discovery Channel, I get to host three new Shark

01:20:59.100 --> 01:21:02.819
Week shows a year. And then I get to speak out

01:21:02.819 --> 01:21:05.479
here and I get to do other cool things like little

01:21:05.479 --> 01:21:09.600
random things pop up. And I did an acting role

01:21:09.600 --> 01:21:13.840
in Australia for a miniseries. So I love it.

01:21:13.880 --> 01:21:15.880
It's like being a clearance diver again. I never

01:21:15.880 --> 01:21:18.260
know what's going to happen day to day. It's

01:21:18.260 --> 01:21:20.619
scary because... You don't know if you're going

01:21:20.619 --> 01:21:23.680
to have a job in time, but it's also really exciting.

01:21:23.859 --> 01:21:27.239
And I kind of thrive on that uncertainty. Well,

01:21:27.319 --> 01:21:29.340
did you have that moment? Or let me ask you,

01:21:29.359 --> 01:21:31.100
when was that moment? Because I'm sure you did.

01:21:31.500 --> 01:21:34.960
When you realized that you were living the life

01:21:34.960 --> 01:21:37.119
that as a young boy watching David Attenborough,

01:21:37.180 --> 01:21:38.979
you dreamed of doing one day. Or no, probably

01:21:38.979 --> 01:21:41.619
didn't even dream of doing. You admired him doing,

01:21:41.739 --> 01:21:43.239
and now you're doing that very role yourself.

01:21:45.479 --> 01:21:48.100
I got an inkling of it when I was working on

01:21:48.100 --> 01:21:50.560
the first Shark Week documentary, Great White

01:21:50.560 --> 01:21:54.579
Matrix. But then when I moved out to the US and

01:21:54.579 --> 01:21:59.640
aside from speaking, that was my main job, getting

01:21:59.640 --> 01:22:03.140
paid to fly around the world and go diving with

01:22:03.140 --> 01:22:06.979
sharks and sharing these amazing animals with

01:22:06.979 --> 01:22:10.579
the world and doing things. that I would literally

01:22:10.579 --> 01:22:15.020
pay to do and as would most people. Yeah, the

01:22:15.020 --> 01:22:17.720
first year of living out here on my contract

01:22:17.720 --> 01:22:22.039
really was like that. I do all the cool LA things,

01:22:22.199 --> 01:22:25.520
go up to Runyon Canyon and a whitewater rafted

01:22:25.520 --> 01:22:27.979
down the American River and go hiking through

01:22:27.979 --> 01:22:30.500
Yosemite National Park, which I actually thought

01:22:30.500 --> 01:22:32.680
was Yosemite because it's spelled the same as

01:22:32.680 --> 01:22:35.840
Vegemite. And Marmite. Everyone was laughing

01:22:35.840 --> 01:22:39.689
at me. And I train, I get to train at Gold's

01:22:39.689 --> 01:22:41.970
at Venice beach. And, you know, I go, you know,

01:22:41.970 --> 01:22:44.329
the gym's been closed down for, for 10 months,

01:22:44.409 --> 01:22:47.010
but I turn up to the gym every morning and Arnold

01:22:47.010 --> 01:22:49.590
Schwarzenegger says hello to me. And I have,

01:22:49.649 --> 01:22:53.189
I met Van Damme and I have that gym has turned

01:22:53.189 --> 01:22:56.289
into my little family out here. And it's, it's

01:22:56.289 --> 01:23:00.149
really quite a great place to be and work. And

01:23:00.149 --> 01:23:03.369
looking back at Australia, it's, it's home and

01:23:03.369 --> 01:23:06.510
I love it. And I miss the beaches so much, but.

01:23:07.039 --> 01:23:11.399
It feels so small now. Here, the opportunity

01:23:11.399 --> 01:23:16.420
is endless. Yeah. With David Ambrough, my sister

01:23:16.420 --> 01:23:19.020
actually has edited for BBC and those kind of

01:23:19.020 --> 01:23:22.159
wildlife shows for years now. And he just did

01:23:22.159 --> 01:23:25.100
that documentary about his experience through

01:23:25.100 --> 01:23:27.960
his life, starting off as a naturist in the 50s

01:23:27.960 --> 01:23:31.520
and what he's seen with his own eyes. So with

01:23:31.520 --> 01:23:34.960
your experience, especially in the oceans, what

01:23:34.960 --> 01:23:37.420
are some of the things that we need to be cognizant

01:23:37.420 --> 01:23:40.579
and wary of as far as the environment in the

01:23:40.579 --> 01:23:46.560
oceans? Well, I always think people should think

01:23:46.560 --> 01:23:50.380
globally, act locally, as the saying goes. So

01:23:50.380 --> 01:23:52.420
think about your own little pocket. Think about

01:23:52.420 --> 01:23:56.800
the trash. that is in your area or on the beaches

01:23:56.800 --> 01:23:59.180
or that are people throwing on the ground. I

01:23:59.180 --> 01:24:01.960
have some good friends that started a group called

01:24:01.960 --> 01:24:05.659
Recycle for Veterans and they get veterans together

01:24:05.659 --> 01:24:09.220
every week or every second weekend and they go

01:24:09.220 --> 01:24:12.479
out and they clean a beach around California.

01:24:12.899 --> 01:24:16.699
And so little things like that, the detrimental

01:24:16.699 --> 01:24:19.560
things we're doing to our planet and our ocean

01:24:19.560 --> 01:24:26.800
can simply be... fixed by humans not being such

01:24:26.800 --> 01:24:31.039
assholes and throwing our trash around and polluting

01:24:31.039 --> 01:24:36.180
the waterways. It's really not that hard. There's

01:24:36.180 --> 01:24:39.800
so many groups out there that are working to

01:24:39.800 --> 01:24:43.260
improve our environment that they're looking

01:24:43.260 --> 01:24:46.119
for people to help them. And it can be anything

01:24:46.119 --> 01:24:48.739
from, you know, in Australia we had the big shark

01:24:48.739 --> 01:24:52.739
culls and we went out, hundreds of people, and

01:24:52.739 --> 01:24:55.760
we did a big protest on the beach to try and

01:24:55.760 --> 01:24:57.840
stop the shark culls. And the government came

01:24:57.840 --> 01:25:01.020
and they started to implement small changes instead

01:25:01.020 --> 01:25:03.979
of... catching sharks on a drum line and killing

01:25:03.979 --> 01:25:06.460
them they started catching them on smart drum

01:25:06.460 --> 01:25:09.859
lines which would uh signal to the the workers

01:25:09.859 --> 01:25:12.300
they'd go out in the boat they'd take the shark

01:25:12.300 --> 01:25:14.199
off the hook they'd transport it out to sea and

01:25:14.199 --> 01:25:16.680
then they'll let it go instead so things like

01:25:16.680 --> 01:25:19.279
that like there are so many little things that

01:25:19.279 --> 01:25:22.279
we can do um you know small things consistently

01:25:22.279 --> 01:25:26.140
are what are going to make the difference What

01:25:26.140 --> 01:25:28.920
about your observation of the last year? Because

01:25:28.920 --> 01:25:30.979
one of the most beautiful things that came out

01:25:30.979 --> 01:25:35.079
of 2020 was those first few weeks where everyone

01:25:35.079 --> 01:25:37.840
had just stopped. All the vehicles stopped pretty

01:25:37.840 --> 01:25:40.439
much and everyone was in their homes. And we

01:25:40.439 --> 01:25:43.359
saw the skyline in LA. I lived in Burbank for

01:25:43.359 --> 01:25:45.899
a few years, so I know how freaking awfully smoggy

01:25:45.899 --> 01:25:48.260
that place is normally. And the air was clearing

01:25:48.260 --> 01:25:50.199
up. The Venice canals were clearing up. And it

01:25:50.199 --> 01:25:53.380
seemed like Mother Nature gave us this... massive

01:25:53.380 --> 01:25:55.460
like you know billboard like hey you know if

01:25:55.460 --> 01:25:58.760
you keep doing this i can fix myself and then

01:25:58.760 --> 01:26:01.680
through my eyes we the pendulum swung all the

01:26:01.680 --> 01:26:03.279
way the other way we all got back in our cars

01:26:03.279 --> 01:26:05.600
but now we wear gloves and masks and those are

01:26:05.600 --> 01:26:07.920
thrown everywhere every every piece of food is

01:26:07.920 --> 01:26:09.899
wrapped in plastic or stuck in a plastic bag

01:26:09.899 --> 01:26:13.760
and i feel like that message was completely disregarded

01:26:13.760 --> 01:26:16.500
so through through your eyes you know what what

01:26:16.500 --> 01:26:18.340
messages do you think we saw and you know how

01:26:18.340 --> 01:26:21.060
do we actually persuade people to actually learn

01:26:21.060 --> 01:26:22.920
from some of those incredible moments that we

01:26:22.920 --> 01:26:27.640
saw early 2020 yeah we did see some amazing stuff

01:26:27.640 --> 01:26:30.340
you know china saw the sky for the first time

01:26:30.340 --> 01:26:34.359
in three decades but at the same time we destroyed

01:26:34.359 --> 01:26:38.699
countries we destroyed economies People lost

01:26:38.699 --> 01:26:42.159
their businesses, lost their homes. Suicide went

01:26:42.159 --> 01:26:45.779
up in Australia, I think, 200%. And so somehow

01:26:45.779 --> 01:26:48.699
if we could find a middle ground there, that

01:26:48.699 --> 01:26:53.119
would be perfect. But people have to make a living.

01:26:53.850 --> 01:26:57.210
means we have to drive cars and go to work and

01:26:57.210 --> 01:26:59.949
there has to be industry and so I don't think

01:26:59.949 --> 01:27:02.409
it's I wish it was as simple as us just going

01:27:02.409 --> 01:27:05.569
back to the early COVID days but also they were

01:27:05.569 --> 01:27:09.449
horrible days for a lot of people and so if we

01:27:09.449 --> 01:27:11.390
could find a middle ground if we can just find

01:27:11.390 --> 01:27:16.329
a way to do it better I totally stay out of politics

01:27:16.329 --> 01:27:19.789
out here in America because people are extremely

01:27:19.789 --> 01:27:23.689
passionate And I'm going to use that term as

01:27:23.689 --> 01:27:27.010
a very nice way to say it about politics out

01:27:27.010 --> 01:27:33.390
here. And, you know, Trump was not good for the

01:27:33.390 --> 01:27:38.710
environment. And hopefully this next group, Biden

01:27:38.710 --> 01:27:41.350
and whatever, you know, it sounds like they've

01:27:41.350 --> 01:27:43.930
already implemented some great changes environmentally.

01:27:44.789 --> 01:27:48.149
And hopefully that will continue because as.

01:27:49.229 --> 01:27:52.689
Much as we can do the little things, it really

01:27:52.689 --> 01:27:56.409
is up to our elected officials to implement the

01:27:56.409 --> 01:28:00.869
legislation and the laws to save this planet

01:28:00.869 --> 01:28:05.350
that we are constantly destroying. And it wasn't

01:28:05.350 --> 01:28:08.560
all roses either. In the middle of COVID. There

01:28:08.560 --> 01:28:12.720
was a Japanese fishing fleet, over 300 boats,

01:28:12.859 --> 01:28:14.960
some of these boats as big as football fields,

01:28:15.079 --> 01:28:17.539
and they can stay out in the ocean for years.

01:28:17.779 --> 01:28:19.640
They're called super trawlers, and they just

01:28:19.640 --> 01:28:23.020
fill their boats full of fish and sharks and

01:28:23.020 --> 01:28:25.899
whales and rays, and then other boats will come

01:28:25.899 --> 01:28:28.640
out, collect all of that, change out the crew,

01:28:28.800 --> 01:28:31.560
refuel, and then go back to China, and now that

01:28:31.560 --> 01:28:33.399
boat's got a whole new crew and an empty hull

01:28:33.399 --> 01:28:37.659
to fill again. This massive 300 fleet of fishing

01:28:37.659 --> 01:28:41.460
trawlers were just outside the exclusion zone

01:28:41.460 --> 01:28:43.800
of the Galapagos Islands, you know, a beautiful

01:28:43.800 --> 01:28:47.500
untouched area full of life. And they sat in

01:28:47.500 --> 01:28:49.500
this border between the international waters

01:28:49.500 --> 01:28:53.279
of, I think it was Ecuador and the Galapagos,

01:28:53.279 --> 01:28:56.140
and they just raped. everything that went through

01:28:56.140 --> 01:28:58.680
there and destroyed that whole area and i have

01:28:58.680 --> 01:29:00.359
a buddy that went out there to film some stuff

01:29:00.359 --> 01:29:02.880
and he said it was just ridiculous he said he

01:29:02.880 --> 01:29:05.100
went diving and there was barely anything there

01:29:05.100 --> 01:29:07.579
and everything was acting skittish and scared

01:29:07.579 --> 01:29:13.100
um and so there is a lot that needs to change

01:29:13.100 --> 01:29:15.100
if we're going to save this planet we're living

01:29:15.100 --> 01:29:17.720
on Yeah, no, and that's the thing. I agree that

01:29:17.720 --> 01:29:19.340
in the middle ground, exactly where we should

01:29:19.340 --> 01:29:21.680
be. And I want to get just very quickly to your,

01:29:21.760 --> 01:29:23.899
you know, your plant based diet before we transition

01:29:23.899 --> 01:29:27.000
to some closing questions. But that's, you know,

01:29:27.000 --> 01:29:28.899
that's a takeaway for me. It's not about no one

01:29:28.899 --> 01:29:31.460
drives cars, but maybe we think about more pedestrianized

01:29:31.460 --> 01:29:34.140
areas and, you know, rail systems and buses and

01:29:34.140 --> 01:29:36.500
things that reduce, you know, the carbon footprint.

01:29:36.539 --> 01:29:38.800
And we look at the way we farm. You know, the

01:29:38.800 --> 01:29:40.380
reason COVID was so bad is because we've got

01:29:40.380 --> 01:29:42.720
so many sick people in this country that they

01:29:42.720 --> 01:29:44.460
were dying from a virus they should have been.

01:29:44.960 --> 01:29:47.899
you know, mildly affected by. So the way we spray

01:29:47.899 --> 01:29:50.619
our food. Look at what they're putting into their

01:29:50.619 --> 01:29:53.399
face instead of on their face. Yeah, well, exactly.

01:29:53.600 --> 01:29:55.279
I mean, and that's it. So the middle ground is

01:29:55.279 --> 01:29:57.239
the conversation of both. You know, I get the

01:29:57.239 --> 01:29:59.819
isolation. I really do. But that conversation

01:29:59.819 --> 01:30:03.000
about health and food and agriculture and air

01:30:03.000 --> 01:30:05.899
pollution has to be there side by side with masks,

01:30:06.000 --> 01:30:08.819
hand sanitizers and stay, you know, six foot.

01:30:09.500 --> 01:30:13.260
So in America, you know, it's like it's. You

01:30:13.260 --> 01:30:15.920
go, you drive past In -N -Out Burger and there's

01:30:15.920 --> 01:30:18.340
a line of cars around the block and there's these

01:30:18.340 --> 01:30:22.199
morbidly obese people shoving burgers in their

01:30:22.199 --> 01:30:25.180
face while wearing a mask under their chin. You're

01:30:25.180 --> 01:30:29.359
not stopping anything. People need to start really

01:30:29.359 --> 01:30:32.380
taking stock of their own actions and their own

01:30:32.380 --> 01:30:34.960
health and their own well -being instead of relying

01:30:34.960 --> 01:30:36.800
on the government to come out with a vaccine.

01:30:37.079 --> 01:30:39.600
And I'm not saying, you know, I'm not. taking

01:30:39.600 --> 01:30:42.579
away anything from the horrific death toll that

01:30:42.579 --> 01:30:45.779
COVID has implemented around the world and in

01:30:45.779 --> 01:30:48.619
America. But at the moment, I think we're at

01:30:48.619 --> 01:30:51.960
410 ,000 deaths from COVID, which is horrendous.

01:30:51.960 --> 01:30:56.520
But annually, there's 655 ,000 deaths from coronary

01:30:56.520 --> 01:31:00.460
heart disease. So why are the tobacco shops open?

01:31:00.619 --> 01:31:02.859
Why are they essential businesses throughout

01:31:02.859 --> 01:31:06.640
all of COVID? How are these massive companies

01:31:06.640 --> 01:31:09.899
putting all this horrible artificial sweetener

01:31:09.899 --> 01:31:14.319
into kids cereal to start the diabetes and start

01:31:14.319 --> 01:31:17.680
the coronary heart disease process when they're

01:31:17.680 --> 01:31:20.359
toddlers you know there needs to be better laws

01:31:20.359 --> 01:31:23.359
against these companies putting shit into our

01:31:23.359 --> 01:31:27.140
foods to help everyone understand that your health

01:31:27.140 --> 01:31:29.920
is your wealth absolutely i couldn't agree more

01:31:29.920 --> 01:31:32.119
well just very quickly then so your plant -based

01:31:32.119 --> 01:31:33.960
diet i actually switched to a plant -based diet

01:31:33.960 --> 01:31:37.359
it was a few years ago now and Yeah, I was amazed.

01:31:37.460 --> 01:31:41.550
I had a dwindling of... um energy and strength

01:31:41.550 --> 01:31:44.010
towards the end but that could have just been

01:31:44.010 --> 01:31:47.329
you know obviously my my physiology the fact

01:31:47.329 --> 01:31:48.909
i was a full -time firefighter better getting

01:31:48.909 --> 01:31:52.289
any sleep um and it but i have to attain that

01:31:52.289 --> 01:31:54.250
i had blood work done my blood work was good

01:31:54.250 --> 01:31:56.890
as ever been i felt great my poo looked awesome

01:31:56.890 --> 01:32:00.670
i saved a lot of money on toilet paper so when

01:32:00.670 --> 01:32:03.130
did you you know decide to make that change and

01:32:03.130 --> 01:32:04.949
i want to say thanks to james wilkes by the way

01:32:04.949 --> 01:32:07.329
speaking of which the the mma fighter that made

01:32:07.329 --> 01:32:08.909
the game change because he was the one that connected

01:32:08.909 --> 01:32:11.470
us in the first place. So how did you come across

01:32:11.470 --> 01:32:13.810
that way of eating? And then what was your personal

01:32:13.810 --> 01:32:18.470
experience? It all started when I went to Africa,

01:32:18.569 --> 01:32:24.289
actually. Xbox had given me money to create a

01:32:24.289 --> 01:32:27.189
pilot for a series that we'd come up with called

01:32:27.189 --> 01:32:29.590
Fearless, where I was going to embed with all

01:32:29.590 --> 01:32:32.170
of these incredible groups of humans around the

01:32:32.170 --> 01:32:33.909
world that are risking their lives to make the

01:32:33.909 --> 01:32:36.319
world a better place. So we shot the pilot in

01:32:36.319 --> 01:32:39.199
Africa with Damien Mander, who was on the Game

01:32:39.199 --> 01:32:42.159
Changers. And he was actually an Australian clearance

01:32:42.159 --> 01:32:45.300
diver as well, so we knew each other. And I got

01:32:45.300 --> 01:32:48.439
to go out and spend a couple of weeks in Zimbabwe

01:32:48.439 --> 01:32:52.500
embedded with his anti -poaching unit to learn

01:32:52.500 --> 01:32:56.039
how they do it and just really spend some in

01:32:56.039 --> 01:32:57.880
-depth time with these rangers that risk their

01:32:57.880 --> 01:33:01.560
lives to save what they call their family. And

01:33:01.560 --> 01:33:06.170
one night... In the beginning, the cook was making

01:33:06.170 --> 01:33:08.430
food for everyone. And I saw Damien was eating

01:33:08.430 --> 01:33:12.010
from a separate pot. And I was like, ah, this

01:33:12.010 --> 01:33:14.689
guy is saving the good meat for himself. And

01:33:14.689 --> 01:33:16.710
I went over there all cocky going, hey, what's

01:33:16.710 --> 01:33:19.489
up with that pot, bro? And he goes, oh, well,

01:33:19.569 --> 01:33:22.369
I don't eat meat. The rangers eat meat. And I'm

01:33:22.369 --> 01:33:27.500
like, what? Damien's like six foot three or four,

01:33:27.720 --> 01:33:30.319
built like a brick shithouse. I'm like, what

01:33:30.319 --> 01:33:32.279
do you mean you don't eat meat? And he said,

01:33:32.439 --> 01:33:35.899
well, I'm vegan. And I said, what's that? And

01:33:35.899 --> 01:33:38.760
he's like, well, I don't consume any animal products.

01:33:38.939 --> 01:33:42.380
I was like, why? And he said, well, I was going

01:33:42.380 --> 01:33:45.479
out into the wilderness to save these animals

01:33:45.479 --> 01:33:48.100
and then I was coming home and I was eating the

01:33:48.100 --> 01:33:50.979
animals and I felt like a hypocrite. And that

01:33:50.979 --> 01:33:54.840
struck a chord with me. because I dislike hypocrites

01:33:54.840 --> 01:33:58.220
immensely. The worst leaders that I've ever had

01:33:58.220 --> 01:34:01.159
have always been massive hypocrites, always do

01:34:01.159 --> 01:34:04.260
as I say, not as I do. And I always strive to

01:34:04.260 --> 01:34:07.779
be the do as I do sort of person. And I was talking

01:34:07.779 --> 01:34:10.439
about saving the oceans and saving the sharks,

01:34:10.600 --> 01:34:13.800
but I was eating the animals that are a detriment

01:34:13.800 --> 01:34:16.810
to our environment at the same time. And so It

01:34:16.810 --> 01:34:18.630
struck a chord with me and I went home and I

01:34:18.630 --> 01:34:20.130
thought, you know what, I'm going to go vegan.

01:34:20.449 --> 01:34:25.170
And I lasted two days. I didn't know what to

01:34:25.170 --> 01:34:28.770
eat. And so I gave it away. But it just kept

01:34:28.770 --> 01:34:31.569
popping up in my world through people like John

01:34:31.569 --> 01:34:33.829
Joseph, through a very good friend of mine, Ian

01:34:33.829 --> 01:34:37.090
Norrington. A lot of other people that I respected

01:34:37.090 --> 01:34:39.050
had come out as plant -based. I'm like, all right,

01:34:39.130 --> 01:34:42.649
I'm a firm believer that when the universe is

01:34:42.649 --> 01:34:44.729
talking to you, you need to listen because there's

01:34:44.729 --> 01:34:47.720
a very good reason for it. And so I listened

01:34:47.720 --> 01:34:51.199
and I did it incrementally this time around.

01:34:51.300 --> 01:34:53.380
I cut out, you know, I stopped eating kangaroo.

01:34:53.380 --> 01:34:55.500
Then I stopped eating beef. Then I stopped eating,

01:34:55.600 --> 01:34:57.380
you know, I didn't eat dairy anyway because I'm

01:34:57.380 --> 01:34:59.920
lactose intolerant. So that was easy. But over

01:34:59.920 --> 01:35:02.159
a series of months, I cut everything out. And

01:35:02.159 --> 01:35:05.399
when I would remove one thing, I'd add more in

01:35:05.399 --> 01:35:09.100
because mostly I ate a lot of kangaroo, a lot

01:35:09.100 --> 01:35:11.619
of chicken breasts, some broccoli and sweet potatoes.

01:35:11.899 --> 01:35:15.789
And that was about it. And so. Every time I cut

01:35:15.789 --> 01:35:17.409
something out, I'd find a whole bunch of other

01:35:17.409 --> 01:35:19.970
foods and I'd add them in. And so I actually

01:35:19.970 --> 01:35:22.949
became a better cook. I became healthier because

01:35:22.949 --> 01:35:26.329
I was getting way more macro and micronutrients.

01:35:26.409 --> 01:35:31.210
I was enjoying my food more. And since that day,

01:35:31.350 --> 01:35:34.869
I haven't had a serious injury. Now, I didn't

01:35:34.869 --> 01:35:37.289
have the better sleep or the better energy I've

01:35:37.289 --> 01:35:42.359
maintained fairly well. But I haven't had. serious

01:35:42.359 --> 01:35:44.640
injury since that day. And I used to get a lot

01:35:44.640 --> 01:35:47.300
from all the days in the army and the Navy. I

01:35:47.300 --> 01:35:50.399
had horrible tendonitis in my elbows. My shoulder

01:35:50.399 --> 01:35:53.079
always blew out. My lower back was always blowing

01:35:53.079 --> 01:35:56.359
out. And even if I do get something, it seems

01:35:56.359 --> 01:35:59.380
to heal up very quickly. And I guess that's down

01:35:59.380 --> 01:36:01.699
to the fact that I'm not eating these inflammatory

01:36:01.699 --> 01:36:04.619
foods. Yeah. Well, I think that was the thing

01:36:04.619 --> 01:36:07.720
I talked with James about. I don't know if you

01:36:07.720 --> 01:36:10.520
heard, he had some conversations with Joe Rogan.

01:36:10.520 --> 01:36:12.880
I think it was Chris Kresser. And they basically

01:36:12.880 --> 01:36:16.500
tore his film apart. I think Joe Rogan's amazing.

01:36:16.699 --> 01:36:18.859
But this particular guest, this conversation,

01:36:19.539 --> 01:36:22.340
there wasn't any positive to it. It was like,

01:36:22.380 --> 01:36:25.119
this is why this is shit. And so when we talked,

01:36:25.460 --> 01:36:27.180
I'm like, well, here's my thing. I'm sold on

01:36:27.180 --> 01:36:30.859
plant -based. I kind of view my diet at the moment

01:36:30.859 --> 01:36:33.390
as... Plant -based with a sprinkling of meat.

01:36:33.489 --> 01:36:35.250
So sometimes I eat meat, but there's definitely

01:36:35.250 --> 01:36:37.229
a lot of plant -based. I don't eat dairy. Again,

01:36:37.390 --> 01:36:39.710
it upset my stomach for years and years. And

01:36:39.710 --> 01:36:42.430
almost overnight when I removed dairy, I felt

01:36:42.430 --> 01:36:45.890
better after, you know, 40 years. But, you know,

01:36:45.909 --> 01:36:47.789
as you mentioned, I think the big thing that

01:36:47.789 --> 01:36:50.210
people miss is when you focus on plant -based,

01:36:50.329 --> 01:36:52.770
and it can be some of the other diet philosophies

01:36:52.770 --> 01:36:55.729
too, what you end up doing is removing the shit,

01:36:55.829 --> 01:36:59.300
all the processed foods. and adding in a more

01:36:59.300 --> 01:37:02.840
diverse spectrum of plants. So even if there

01:37:02.840 --> 01:37:05.819
is some clean meat with it, you've still leveled

01:37:05.819 --> 01:37:08.539
up multiple times on what you were eating before.

01:37:09.159 --> 01:37:12.319
So to me, if you do no meat at all, no dairy,

01:37:12.479 --> 01:37:14.840
beautiful. If that doesn't quite work for you

01:37:14.840 --> 01:37:17.279
and you put a little bit of meat in, also beautiful.

01:37:17.619 --> 01:37:22.579
So the all or nothing arguments. I think, turn

01:37:22.579 --> 01:37:24.479
people off. Whereas if you meet in the middle,

01:37:24.520 --> 01:37:26.340
like you said, you start chipping away, you might

01:37:26.340 --> 01:37:29.159
end up with 10 % meat, but you're still 90 %

01:37:29.159 --> 01:37:32.159
better than where you were before. And you're

01:37:32.159 --> 01:37:35.739
creating an amazing impact in the environment

01:37:35.739 --> 01:37:39.600
as well. I just find, like you said, if something

01:37:39.600 --> 01:37:44.560
is not necessary, but it's creating harm, then

01:37:44.560 --> 01:37:48.010
why... partake in it why sponsor the suffering

01:37:48.010 --> 01:37:51.329
of these animals around the world that are living

01:37:51.329 --> 01:37:54.010
in factory farms they're being given hormones

01:37:54.010 --> 01:37:57.210
they're being given antibiotics to the point

01:37:57.210 --> 01:37:59.470
where now we have super bugs that these antibiotics

01:37:59.470 --> 01:38:02.149
can't stop and we're we're one super bug away

01:38:02.149 --> 01:38:04.550
from getting wiped out because none of our antibiotics

01:38:04.550 --> 01:38:07.590
are going to work anymore um you know and and

01:38:07.590 --> 01:38:09.869
then the suffering these animals growing up in

01:38:09.869 --> 01:38:12.869
pens being tortured, their babies ripped away

01:38:12.869 --> 01:38:16.989
from them, female cows being raped with fists

01:38:16.989 --> 01:38:20.850
in their arses and then being inseminated at

01:38:20.850 --> 01:38:24.949
the same time. That's bestiality. If you walk

01:38:24.949 --> 01:38:26.850
down the street and some guy had his fist up

01:38:26.850 --> 01:38:29.470
a cow's ass, you'd call the police. But when

01:38:29.470 --> 01:38:32.210
you do it in the dairy industry, it's protected

01:38:32.210 --> 01:38:34.449
and you can't even speak out against it because

01:38:34.449 --> 01:38:39.170
of animal agriculture laws. Oprah got smashed.

01:38:39.369 --> 01:38:41.069
All she said on her show was that she's going

01:38:41.069 --> 01:38:44.489
to cut down her meat intake. And the animal agriculture

01:38:44.489 --> 01:38:48.170
industry went after her with million dollar lawsuits

01:38:48.170 --> 01:38:51.090
and tried to destroy her. And that's the power

01:38:51.090 --> 01:38:53.869
of these industries that are trying to protect

01:38:53.869 --> 01:38:57.869
their billion dollar industry. And it's all through

01:38:57.869 --> 01:39:01.350
suffering and torture of these just innocent

01:39:01.350 --> 01:39:05.449
beings, really. So if you don't need to sponsor

01:39:05.449 --> 01:39:08.689
that, then why would you? Yeah. When it goes

01:39:08.689 --> 01:39:10.930
back to the slavery thing we talked about earlier,

01:39:11.090 --> 01:39:13.229
you know, a handful of assholes, again, want

01:39:13.229 --> 01:39:16.170
to control all the food, all the farms, all the

01:39:16.170 --> 01:39:18.649
seeds, all the, you know, whatever it is. So

01:39:18.649 --> 01:39:21.949
even if, again, let's say you want a little meat.

01:39:22.130 --> 01:39:24.470
Well, if you're supporting local holistically

01:39:24.470 --> 01:39:27.970
run farms. where the animals are out doing their

01:39:27.970 --> 01:39:31.430
thing and you know that particular farm um you

01:39:31.430 --> 01:39:33.770
know is one that process animals but it's all

01:39:33.770 --> 01:39:37.210
done in a humane way that's still so much better

01:39:37.210 --> 01:39:40.029
than these factory farms or these men and women

01:39:40.029 --> 01:39:43.470
wearing level two or level b hazmat suits spraying

01:39:43.470 --> 01:39:45.569
the food that your kids are going to eat in about

01:39:45.569 --> 01:39:48.630
two months time yeah well i don't i don't abide

01:39:48.630 --> 01:39:52.760
to the fact that there's any uh humane way to

01:39:52.760 --> 01:39:54.380
kill something that doesn't want to be killed

01:39:54.380 --> 01:39:58.680
so the the humane thing is is off the table that

01:39:58.680 --> 01:40:02.579
doesn't even exist um you know if if i shot you

01:40:02.579 --> 01:40:04.300
in the head with a bolt gun would you say that's

01:40:04.300 --> 01:40:06.420
humane i wouldn't have a chance i'd be dead because

01:40:06.420 --> 01:40:08.800
you don't want to die these animals don't want

01:40:08.800 --> 01:40:11.039
to die either but they don't get given a choice

01:40:11.039 --> 01:40:14.720
and look i'm i'm all for um Less is better than

01:40:14.720 --> 01:40:18.500
nothing. So if you feel the need that you've

01:40:18.500 --> 01:40:22.880
got to do that, then by all means, do it incrementally

01:40:22.880 --> 01:40:27.619
like I did or whatever you need to make yourself

01:40:27.619 --> 01:40:29.819
feel like you're healthy and strong and all that

01:40:29.819 --> 01:40:33.579
sort of stuff. But myself and so many of my friends

01:40:33.579 --> 01:40:39.609
have proven that it's not necessary. jacked bodybuilder

01:40:39.609 --> 01:40:43.069
friends. I've got elite athletes that do Ironman,

01:40:43.090 --> 01:40:46.449
just incredible people. Morgan Mitchell, the

01:40:46.449 --> 01:40:50.329
Australian Olympic runner. It's been proven that

01:40:50.329 --> 01:40:55.510
you can do it. There's so many resources on the

01:40:55.510 --> 01:40:58.090
internet for you to get the information from

01:40:58.090 --> 01:41:00.289
in regards to getting all of your nutrients.

01:41:00.569 --> 01:41:03.149
People always seem to fall back on this. Oh,

01:41:03.189 --> 01:41:06.369
yeah, but you've got a supplement B12. Well,

01:41:06.510 --> 01:41:09.659
all of the... the meat that you're eating is

01:41:09.659 --> 01:41:12.420
actually supplemented with B12 because the animals

01:41:12.420 --> 01:41:14.979
aren't getting it. So they have to be fed the

01:41:14.979 --> 01:41:17.340
B12. So you're getting it secondhand from an

01:41:17.340 --> 01:41:20.340
animal anyway. So that's not a great argument

01:41:20.340 --> 01:41:23.140
there. And if you're eating a good variety of

01:41:23.140 --> 01:41:25.460
foods, you're going to get all of the nutrients

01:41:25.460 --> 01:41:28.380
that you need anyway. And obviously not everyone's

01:41:28.380 --> 01:41:33.060
the same. Some people have had a horrific. experiences

01:41:33.060 --> 01:41:35.439
on the plant -based diet. Whether that's because

01:41:35.439 --> 01:41:39.340
of their genetic makeup or whatever, I don't

01:41:39.340 --> 01:41:42.000
know. I'm no food scientist. All I can say is

01:41:42.000 --> 01:41:45.359
it works for me. It makes me feel good in my

01:41:45.359 --> 01:41:49.600
soul that nothing is directly dying for me to

01:41:49.600 --> 01:41:53.439
survive. If I can do it, then I'm just going

01:41:53.439 --> 01:41:55.539
to continue that way. Yeah, well, I think and

01:41:55.539 --> 01:41:58.000
that's exactly it. So, you know, I think definitely

01:41:58.000 --> 01:42:01.079
not allowing the propaganda to push you away

01:42:01.079 --> 01:42:04.239
from that philosophy. And then, you know, try

01:42:04.239 --> 01:42:07.000
it. And like I said, I can attest, just try it

01:42:07.000 --> 01:42:10.640
for two weeks and see how your guts feel, see

01:42:10.640 --> 01:42:15.420
how your guts act. I think that's huge. If you,

01:42:15.420 --> 01:42:17.560
you know, are starting to find some detriment,

01:42:17.659 --> 01:42:19.579
then again, as you said, make sure your nutrient

01:42:19.579 --> 01:42:22.220
profile is where it needs to be. But I think

01:42:22.220 --> 01:42:24.760
that nutrition is a very strange thing because

01:42:24.760 --> 01:42:26.140
ultimately it's down to the person. It's like

01:42:26.140 --> 01:42:28.500
religion. It doesn't affect anyone else as long

01:42:28.500 --> 01:42:30.579
as you're not being an asshole with it. So, you

01:42:30.579 --> 01:42:32.939
know, it doesn't matter what anyone else does.

01:42:33.100 --> 01:42:36.300
Just try it yourself. But I do hate that negative

01:42:36.300 --> 01:42:38.979
propaganda that's around plant -based because…

01:42:39.239 --> 01:42:41.319
Like I said, I think it was one of the healthiest

01:42:41.319 --> 01:42:43.899
few months of my life and it's something that

01:42:43.899 --> 01:42:46.739
I'm kind of pushing myself back towards. Yeah,

01:42:46.779 --> 01:42:49.340
I've got a lot of friends that won't even refer

01:42:49.340 --> 01:42:52.760
to themselves as vegans because they're sick

01:42:52.760 --> 01:42:55.119
of these militant vegans forcing it down people's

01:42:55.119 --> 01:42:59.140
throats. My friend Simon Hill actually who runs

01:42:59.140 --> 01:43:02.779
a podcast called Plant Proof and he's on Instagram

01:43:02.779 --> 01:43:06.260
as well. He's a really intelligent guy, has a

01:43:06.260 --> 01:43:09.979
lot of… very intellectual plant -based people

01:43:09.979 --> 01:43:12.960
on his podcast and always has a lot of science

01:43:12.960 --> 01:43:16.260
to back what he states and a lot of great articles

01:43:16.260 --> 01:43:18.979
on his Instagram. So if anyone's looking into

01:43:18.979 --> 01:43:21.460
it and worried about nutrient profiles, I would

01:43:21.460 --> 01:43:25.340
definitely jump on to Simon's Plant Proof Podcast

01:43:25.340 --> 01:43:28.180
and jump on his Instagram. You'll learn a lot

01:43:28.180 --> 01:43:34.460
there. There's also, what's it called? Nutritionfacts

01:43:34.460 --> 01:43:38.550
.com. There's a podcast. There's a website. It

01:43:38.550 --> 01:43:43.310
talks about the dirty dozen, the fruits and vegetables

01:43:43.310 --> 01:43:45.989
that have the most pesticides on them, which

01:43:45.989 --> 01:43:49.010
ones you should get organic for. There is just

01:43:49.010 --> 01:43:51.909
a wealth of knowledge on the internet for anyone

01:43:51.909 --> 01:43:54.229
that's curious about it, that wants to give it

01:43:54.229 --> 01:43:57.310
a go. If you're curious about it, just do it

01:43:57.310 --> 01:43:59.130
for a month. Just try it out. See how you go.

01:43:59.189 --> 01:44:01.829
Make sure you do it right or do it like I did

01:44:01.829 --> 01:44:04.170
and do it incrementally so that you're not...

01:44:04.430 --> 01:44:06.569
all or nothing and it freaks you out and your

01:44:06.569 --> 01:44:09.229
body feels shit because you know you've been

01:44:09.229 --> 01:44:11.869
piling all of this garbage into your system for

01:44:11.869 --> 01:44:14.210
so many years sometimes it's going to take a

01:44:14.210 --> 01:44:17.609
little while for your body to uh process all

01:44:17.609 --> 01:44:19.029
of the goodness you're going to get from the

01:44:19.029 --> 01:44:21.970
fruit and veggies and grains and nuts absolutely

01:44:21.970 --> 01:44:24.210
i had dr gregor on the show actually that that

01:44:24.210 --> 01:44:27.369
does the nutrition .org and then um uh rip esselstein

01:44:27.369 --> 01:44:30.649
who's a firefighter and son of uh you know famous

01:44:30.649 --> 01:44:33.819
uh plant based scientists and you know i think

01:44:33.819 --> 01:44:36.560
another area that people don't realize in my

01:44:36.560 --> 01:44:38.819
opinion is the healing power the disease reversal

01:44:38.819 --> 01:44:42.140
power of a plant -based diet as well yeah absolutely

01:44:42.140 --> 01:44:46.579
yeah um yeah rips rips a great sort of resource

01:44:46.579 --> 01:44:49.000
of information as well i've spoken at his events

01:44:49.000 --> 01:44:53.000
and um forks over knives a really great resource

01:44:53.000 --> 01:44:56.060
as well. There's just, there's so many now. And

01:44:56.060 --> 01:44:58.460
there's, you know, you talked about, you know,

01:44:58.479 --> 01:45:00.159
you're getting all these processed foods out

01:45:00.159 --> 01:45:02.619
of your system, but obviously there's plenty

01:45:02.619 --> 01:45:06.380
of processed plant -based foods as well. So it's

01:45:06.380 --> 01:45:09.600
not like you're going to go without. I love the

01:45:09.600 --> 01:45:11.640
Beyond Meat burgers. I don't have them all the

01:45:11.640 --> 01:45:15.220
time, but they are pretty dang tasty. They are.

01:45:15.340 --> 01:45:18.039
We use them all the time. It has vegan ice cream

01:45:18.039 --> 01:45:20.899
and you really don't have to go without. But

01:45:20.899 --> 01:45:24.819
if you can make sure you're eating predominantly

01:45:24.819 --> 01:45:27.939
plant -based, then I really do think people will

01:45:27.939 --> 01:45:29.859
notice a positive difference in their health

01:45:29.859 --> 01:45:32.079
and well -being. Absolutely. Well, Paul, I want

01:45:32.079 --> 01:45:33.899
to transition to some closing questions so I

01:45:33.899 --> 01:45:35.119
can let you go because I know we've gone over

01:45:35.119 --> 01:45:38.359
time. The first one I love to ask is there –

01:45:38.359 --> 01:45:40.239
actually, I'm sorry. Before I ask you this question,

01:45:40.340 --> 01:45:42.140
so let's talk about your books. I was going to

01:45:42.140 --> 01:45:45.260
ask you about another book. So you have No Time

01:45:45.260 --> 01:45:48.279
for Fear. And then last year you released Tough

01:45:48.279 --> 01:45:52.420
AF. I'm assuming that's as fuck. So you're about

01:45:52.420 --> 01:45:54.800
to release another one. So tell me about that

01:45:54.800 --> 01:45:58.380
and then when it's coming out. Yeah, so the No

01:45:58.380 --> 01:46:01.199
Time for Fear was released in Australia under

01:46:01.199 --> 01:46:04.960
Penguin. But that came out in 2012. So obviously

01:46:04.960 --> 01:46:08.340
I have these eight years of... having worked

01:46:08.340 --> 01:46:10.680
with Discovery Channel all the years after leaving

01:46:10.680 --> 01:46:13.739
the military that wasn't updated and Penguin

01:46:13.739 --> 01:46:17.760
didn't want to do a follow -up. And so in America,

01:46:17.859 --> 01:46:20.640
where I live now, and a lot of my followers are

01:46:20.640 --> 01:46:23.100
from, they couldn't get the book out here. And

01:46:23.100 --> 01:46:26.760
so I thought, well, I'll just redo it. I rewrote

01:46:26.760 --> 01:46:28.939
it with a very good friend of mine, Geraint Jones,

01:46:29.199 --> 01:46:32.279
who runs the Veteran State of Mind podcast. He's

01:46:32.279 --> 01:46:34.539
got a bunch of his own books. If you love historical

01:46:34.539 --> 01:46:37.359
fiction like the Romans fighting the Gauls, he's

01:46:37.359 --> 01:46:40.640
got three, nearly four books on that, really

01:46:40.640 --> 01:46:43.659
good reads. So he helped me rewrite the whole

01:46:43.659 --> 01:46:46.819
story and then add all of the exciting stuff

01:46:46.819 --> 01:46:51.699
from Shark Week because 90 % of the stuff that

01:46:51.699 --> 01:46:54.670
happens on these shoots. don't even make it into

01:46:54.670 --> 01:46:57.689
the show. There's so much behind the scenes stuff

01:46:57.689 --> 01:46:59.970
that we're doing, catching crocodiles, people

01:46:59.970 --> 01:47:02.810
nearly dying, what it was really like to parachute

01:47:02.810 --> 01:47:06.109
into the ocean for 44 hours with no food or water

01:47:06.109 --> 01:47:08.909
surrounded by sharks. The first time I dove with

01:47:08.909 --> 01:47:12.710
four great white sharks at 110 feet with no cage,

01:47:12.850 --> 01:47:16.369
like all of these cool stories. So I just felt

01:47:16.369 --> 01:47:19.329
that. it would be best to rewrite it and re -release

01:47:19.329 --> 01:47:21.590
it so we've done that it's going through final

01:47:21.590 --> 01:47:24.310
editing now and it should be out around my birthday

01:47:24.310 --> 01:47:26.390
at the end of march beautiful is it the same

01:47:26.390 --> 01:47:28.750
title no time for fear no this one's going to

01:47:28.750 --> 01:47:31.329
be called uncaged uncaged beautiful all right

01:47:31.329 --> 01:47:35.590
the tough af book was just was um an ebook i

01:47:35.590 --> 01:47:38.949
released last year and that was to give people

01:47:38.949 --> 01:47:42.640
an idea of what it's like to go through physical

01:47:42.640 --> 01:47:45.979
training, getting into the army during the army,

01:47:46.100 --> 01:47:47.859
getting into the clearance divers through the

01:47:47.859 --> 01:47:50.760
selection process, what PT we did to keep ourselves

01:47:50.760 --> 01:47:53.100
fit. So it's a really good resource for anyone

01:47:53.100 --> 01:47:55.899
that's thinking of joining the military or maybe

01:47:55.899 --> 01:47:58.420
is already in the military and wants to up their

01:47:58.420 --> 01:48:01.000
game or for anyone that just wants to give it

01:48:01.000 --> 01:48:03.720
a go. And I started it out. So it's very simple.

01:48:03.760 --> 01:48:06.020
It's easy for anyone at any fitness level to

01:48:06.020 --> 01:48:09.039
do and then ramped it right up to clearance diver

01:48:09.039 --> 01:48:12.000
training. beautiful well thank you so the first

01:48:12.000 --> 01:48:14.220
question i have for you is there a book someone

01:48:14.220 --> 01:48:16.520
else has written that you love to recommend it

01:48:16.520 --> 01:48:18.119
can be related to what we've discussed or something

01:48:18.119 --> 01:48:22.180
completely different um yeah there's oh man there's

01:48:22.180 --> 01:48:27.539
so many um my my good friend john joseph uh lead

01:48:27.539 --> 01:48:29.680
singer of the punk rock band the crow mags he's

01:48:29.680 --> 01:48:34.680
50 55 i think still doing iron man's fully plant

01:48:34.680 --> 01:48:37.680
-based he's got a series of books um the first

01:48:37.680 --> 01:48:41.079
one's called uh definition of a crow mag his

01:48:41.079 --> 01:48:44.840
second one is meat is for pussies um the third

01:48:44.840 --> 01:48:48.119
one is the pma effect the positive mental attitude

01:48:48.119 --> 01:48:50.180
and he's got another one coming out soon but

01:48:50.180 --> 01:48:52.220
i don't know the title but the best thing i love

01:48:52.220 --> 01:48:55.880
about reading john's book is he's a loud unapologetic

01:48:55.880 --> 01:48:59.979
gruff speaking new yorkan and so if you can jump

01:48:59.979 --> 01:49:01.939
on his instagram and see his videos and listen

01:49:01.939 --> 01:49:04.479
to his voice then you can read the books in his

01:49:04.479 --> 01:49:06.720
voice and it just makes it way more entertaining.

01:49:07.079 --> 01:49:10.000
And they're just like, the gloves are off in

01:49:10.000 --> 01:49:12.319
everything that he writes. So I love his brutal

01:49:12.319 --> 01:49:15.539
honesty in those. But like I said, Geraint Jones,

01:49:15.859 --> 01:49:18.819
his historical fiction books about the Roman

01:49:18.819 --> 01:49:21.979
Empire, fighting the Gauls, really, really interesting,

01:49:22.239 --> 01:49:25.359
totally brutal. He also has his own book about,

01:49:25.479 --> 01:49:27.979
because he's a veteran, a UK veteran from Wales.

01:49:28.539 --> 01:49:30.600
He served in Iraq. He served in Afghanistan.

01:49:31.220 --> 01:49:34.000
He's got a book called, I think it's Brothers

01:49:34.000 --> 01:49:38.000
in Arms, but it's the most honest book I've ever

01:49:38.000 --> 01:49:42.689
read about being a soldier. From what you do

01:49:42.689 --> 01:49:44.670
when it's boring, which soldiers will know what

01:49:44.670 --> 01:49:48.689
I'm talking about, on deployment, to losing mates,

01:49:48.869 --> 01:49:52.310
to being in gun battles, to the hypocrisy of

01:49:52.310 --> 01:49:55.770
the military, and then what comes after when

01:49:55.770 --> 01:49:57.949
you get separated with the depression, with the

01:49:57.949 --> 01:49:59.989
drugs, with the credit card debt, all that sort

01:49:59.989 --> 01:50:02.310
of stuff. It's a really all -in -one packaged

01:50:02.310 --> 01:50:05.300
book. Beautiful. Sounds amazing. I'll have to

01:50:05.300 --> 01:50:07.460
get a copy of that myself. All right. Well, then

01:50:07.460 --> 01:50:09.739
same question, but a movie and or documentary.

01:50:11.159 --> 01:50:15.439
Oh, well, man, my favorite movie of all time

01:50:15.439 --> 01:50:19.479
is True Romance, which is one, I think, Quentin

01:50:19.479 --> 01:50:22.819
Tarantino's first movie. Love that movie. It's

01:50:22.819 --> 01:50:25.020
so good. It's got so many superstars in it before

01:50:25.020 --> 01:50:30.310
they were superstars. from Brad Pitt to Christopher

01:50:30.310 --> 01:50:33.810
Walken to Michael Rappaport, Christian Slater,

01:50:33.850 --> 01:50:38.890
Patricia Arquette, amazing movie. And what was

01:50:38.890 --> 01:50:41.850
the other one? Documentary. Documentary, that

01:50:41.850 --> 01:50:46.569
David Attenborough one. I think it's A Life on

01:50:46.569 --> 01:50:49.750
Planet Earth. I think so, yeah. Yeah, that was

01:50:49.750 --> 01:50:52.840
an amazing documentary. The footage of him as

01:50:52.840 --> 01:50:55.699
a young man being a naturalist and everything

01:50:55.699 --> 01:50:59.340
he saw from when he was young to what it is now

01:50:59.340 --> 01:51:02.500
and the detriment we've had on the planet and

01:51:02.500 --> 01:51:06.100
how we really need to band together to take it

01:51:06.100 --> 01:51:09.399
back and regrow this beautiful planet, you know,

01:51:09.420 --> 01:51:12.300
our home. We've only got one, so why destroy

01:51:12.300 --> 01:51:15.380
it? Absolutely. Well, he's someone I'd love to

01:51:15.380 --> 01:51:17.439
get as a guest one day. Obviously, he's a pretty

01:51:17.439 --> 01:51:20.640
tough person to get on. But my question is, is

01:51:20.640 --> 01:51:22.520
there anyone you'd recommend to come on this

01:51:22.520 --> 01:51:25.039
podcast as a guest to speak to the first responders,

01:51:25.260 --> 01:51:27.340
military and associated professions of the world?

01:51:28.899 --> 01:51:32.739
Wow. I got so many mates that are really interesting,

01:51:32.840 --> 01:51:38.380
but Geraint, definitely one of them. He's like

01:51:38.380 --> 01:51:41.539
John. He's unapologetically honest. I've been

01:51:41.539 --> 01:51:43.920
on his podcast a couple of times. We have a really

01:51:43.920 --> 01:51:51.340
good time. Oh, man. I did one very recently with,

01:51:51.479 --> 01:51:53.539
oh, I can't remember her name, but the podcast

01:51:53.539 --> 01:51:59.600
was called Brass and Unity. And it was a U .S.

01:51:59.600 --> 01:52:04.000
She's Canadian, but she served. I think in Iraq

01:52:04.000 --> 01:52:07.079
or Afghanistan and a lot of stuff happened to

01:52:07.079 --> 01:52:09.260
her. She got PTSD. It was a lot of breakdowns,

01:52:09.260 --> 01:52:11.699
but she's just a very good conversationalist

01:52:11.699 --> 01:52:13.619
and interviewer. And I had a really good time

01:52:13.619 --> 01:52:15.659
and she brought a lot of stuff out of me that

01:52:15.659 --> 01:52:18.760
I hadn't really spoken about in a long time.

01:52:18.840 --> 01:52:22.279
And so, yeah, check out the Brass and Unity podcast.

01:52:22.439 --> 01:52:24.560
I can't remember for the life of me her name,

01:52:24.640 --> 01:52:27.640
but she's a really lovely person and has been

01:52:27.640 --> 01:52:30.050
through a lot. Beautiful. Thank you. All right.

01:52:30.069 --> 01:52:31.510
Well, then the last question before we make sure

01:52:31.510 --> 01:52:33.890
everyone knows how to find you online, what do

01:52:33.890 --> 01:52:37.489
you do to decompress these days? I go to the

01:52:37.489 --> 01:52:40.789
gym. Gym? Yeah, I go to the gym. I hang out with

01:52:40.789 --> 01:52:43.229
my dog. There's nothing like the love for my

01:52:43.229 --> 01:52:47.149
dog. It's unconditional. So yeah, going to the

01:52:47.149 --> 01:52:49.590
gym is my therapy. I get a lot of people that

01:52:49.590 --> 01:52:52.189
say, hey, I'm coming to LA. Let's work out sometime.

01:52:52.449 --> 01:52:55.800
And I'm like, nope. Sorry, that's poll time.

01:52:55.840 --> 01:52:57.779
That's my therapy where I get angry and I get

01:52:57.779 --> 01:53:00.939
worked up. And it's just very simple. I get in

01:53:00.939 --> 01:53:03.020
my head, I listen to my music and that's poll

01:53:03.020 --> 01:53:07.840
time. So yeah, no one get upset if I say, no,

01:53:07.960 --> 01:53:10.039
I'm not going to work out with you. That's because

01:53:10.039 --> 01:53:12.899
it's therapy for me. Well, you mentioned before

01:53:12.899 --> 01:53:14.399
we started recording that you bought a lot of

01:53:14.399 --> 01:53:16.579
stuff for your apartment so you could work out

01:53:16.579 --> 01:53:19.500
even if Gold's Gym is shut down. What's your

01:53:19.500 --> 01:53:22.199
favorite piece of home gym equipment? Well, I've

01:53:22.199 --> 01:53:24.850
got... A rower, I've got a treadmill, I've got

01:53:24.850 --> 01:53:26.770
adjustable dumbbells, I've got weighted vests,

01:53:26.770 --> 01:53:30.390
but my favorite one that I just got is the upright

01:53:30.390 --> 01:53:35.090
rower. They call it a ski erg. I love it because

01:53:35.090 --> 01:53:37.689
it's simple. I live in a pretty small apartment,

01:53:37.810 --> 01:53:39.890
so I've got to fold down the treadmill, I've

01:53:39.890 --> 01:53:41.449
got to put on my running blade, or I've got to

01:53:41.449 --> 01:53:44.770
fold out the rower. But with the ski erg, all

01:53:44.770 --> 01:53:46.970
I do is put on one of my weightlifting arms with

01:53:46.970 --> 01:53:49.220
a special attachment, and I just... pull the

01:53:49.220 --> 01:53:52.079
crap out of that thing and it works my abs it

01:53:52.079 --> 01:53:54.279
works my lats it works my triceps it works my

01:53:54.279 --> 01:53:57.800
shoulders and you know within two miles i feel

01:53:57.800 --> 01:54:00.760
all pumped up and jacked and alive so i really

01:54:00.760 --> 01:54:03.859
like that beautiful all right well then if people

01:54:03.859 --> 01:54:06.079
want to find your books if they want to find

01:54:06.079 --> 01:54:08.239
out more about you online reach out to you on

01:54:08.239 --> 01:54:11.880
social media where are the best places um amazon's

01:54:11.880 --> 01:54:16.789
got the tough as fuck ebook um The new one, Uncaged,

01:54:16.810 --> 01:54:18.470
will be on Amazon, but it won't be out until

01:54:18.470 --> 01:54:23.350
the end of March. Anywhere on social media, whatever

01:54:23.350 --> 01:54:26.810
you like, is just my name, Paul DeGelder. I'm

01:54:26.810 --> 01:54:30.649
mostly on Instagram because I feel like Facebook

01:54:30.649 --> 01:54:33.369
is people basically always airing their dirty

01:54:33.369 --> 01:54:39.149
laundry. Instagram, if you accept it for what

01:54:39.149 --> 01:54:42.779
it is, is extremely motivating. People get wrapped

01:54:42.779 --> 01:54:45.140
up in the thing that it's, oh, it's just people

01:54:45.140 --> 01:54:47.779
posing and showing their best photos of their

01:54:47.779 --> 01:54:49.760
life. And there's nothing wrong with that. That

01:54:49.760 --> 01:54:52.460
can be inspiring for you. I get a lot of my new

01:54:52.460 --> 01:54:55.720
workouts from there. I get inspired by fit people

01:54:55.720 --> 01:54:59.680
that might have some really good biceps that

01:54:59.680 --> 01:55:01.340
I want to get. I'm like, okay, I'm going to do

01:55:01.340 --> 01:55:03.579
their workout. And you can change it. It's always

01:55:03.579 --> 01:55:06.159
interesting. It's always evolving into something

01:55:06.159 --> 01:55:09.079
else. So, yeah, social media doesn't have to

01:55:09.079 --> 01:55:10.920
be a bad thing as much as people hate on it.

01:55:11.319 --> 01:55:14.020
yeah no i agree and i have mine you know i think

01:55:14.020 --> 01:55:15.899
of mine as a community you know people call to

01:55:15.899 --> 01:55:17.539
call it followers or whatever but i think that's

01:55:17.539 --> 01:55:19.760
bullshit it's a community of people so if you

01:55:19.760 --> 01:55:22.199
groom it that way and you get rid of the turds

01:55:22.199 --> 01:55:24.579
you end up with this very positive group of men

01:55:24.579 --> 01:55:27.140
and women and you share positive posts and they

01:55:27.140 --> 01:55:29.680
see them interacting and yeah i don't see what

01:55:29.680 --> 01:55:32.380
people talk about so you're in control of your

01:55:32.380 --> 01:55:35.380
audience Absolutely. And people, especially over

01:55:35.380 --> 01:55:38.180
the last year, everyone's going through some

01:55:38.180 --> 01:55:40.340
pretty tough times and everyone goes through

01:55:40.340 --> 01:55:44.279
shit. So I find it rewarding just to put out

01:55:44.279 --> 01:55:47.979
some positive messages. I stay away from politics

01:55:47.979 --> 01:55:50.680
and religion and I try to make my platform just

01:55:50.680 --> 01:55:53.140
like it's fun. It's funny. It's motivational.

01:55:53.279 --> 01:55:55.859
It's exciting. I put on some of the Shark Week

01:55:55.859 --> 01:55:58.960
crazy shit that I do. And it's just fun for me.

01:55:59.000 --> 01:56:00.560
I don't really get too wrapped up around the

01:56:00.560 --> 01:56:03.029
axles about it. Absolutely. Well, Paul, I just

01:56:03.029 --> 01:56:05.010
want to say thank you so much again. I know it's

01:56:05.010 --> 01:56:07.170
evening time and you've had a busy day, so I

01:56:07.170 --> 01:56:09.670
truly do appreciate you being so generous with

01:56:09.670 --> 01:56:12.590
your time and lending your story to us today.

01:56:13.229 --> 01:56:14.130
My pleasure, James.