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I'll spell that to you because it's not as you
think, T -E -A -M -B -U -I -L -D -R .com. Welcome
to the Behind the Shield podcast. As always,
my name is James Gearing and this week it is
my absolute honor to welcome on the show Marine
Combat Veteran, Tactical Medic, and the man behind
Warriors Choice Foundation, Anthony Longo. Now
in this conversation we discuss a host of topics,
from his journey into the military, fire service
paramedicine, the U .S. compound attack, working
dogs, catharsis through canine therapy and so
much more now before we get to this incredible
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them to every single person on planet Earth who
needs to hear them. So with that being said,
I introduce to you... Anthony Longo Enjoy Well,
Anthony, I want to start by saying two things.
Firstly, thank you to our mutual friend, Patrick
Burrows, for making the connection. And secondly,
to welcome you onto the Behind the Shield podcast
today. Yeah, thank you, man. I appreciate being
here. This is going to be fun. I've been looking
forward to it. I know we've spent some time trying
to connect on this, so I'm glad we were able
to do it. Absolutely. I think the last time we
were supposed to, you got hit with jury duty
right at the very last minute. Yeah, I did. Yeah.
And I didn't know what time I was going to get
out. So, yeah. No, I appreciate you being patient.
Yeah, no, I'm going to knock on wood now because
I've been a citizen now for several years and
I haven't been hit yet. I know I'm on the chopping
block at some point. All right. Well, very first
question, where on planet Earth are we finding
you today? Right now, I live in Jupiter, Florida.
Beautiful part of the state. Yeah, just outside
of West Palm Beach, north of, yeah, pretty much
North County -ish in that vicinity. So it's been
beautiful. I've been here for like 20 years.
Brilliant. All right. Well, speaking of that,
I'd love to start at the very beginning of your
journey then. So tell me where you were born
and tell me a little bit about your family dynamic,
what your parents did, how many siblings. Yeah.
So I was born actually in Minneapolis, Minnesota.
And as far as that goes, we moved back to New
York where my family was from. And, you know,
from there, it was just kind of growing up in
a low middle. middle -of -the -road class family
in upstate New York, Schenectady, New York, which
used to be the home of GE back in the day. And
my mother, she was starting off to be a travel
agent and then ended up going to work for the
Department of Social Services, where she was
connecting low -income families with child support,
or not child support, but child programs for
funding. And then my father, he was... in with
the county as a worker, shift supervisor for
their maintenance crew, maintenance team. Many
of the towns and cities where we saw American
industry leave for whatever reason, especially
if we went overseas, there was a deficit. There
was a void left. And a lot of times we found
poverty and addiction and gangs and those kind
of things starting to emerge. Was that the case
in your city? You know, you can only imagine,
you know, with General Electric being a huge
player in that community and watching those jobs
leave, there was a huge difference in, you know,
obviously traffic patterns, but, you know, what
it did to the economy. So for where I went to
high school, you know, I went to Scotia Glenville.
I started off in Scotia and then. I moved over
back to Schenectady and that's where I ended
up graduating from. So long story short, Schenectady
used to be Linton High School, Linton High School,
home of like Pat Riley. And, you know, so in
essence, you know, once all of that happened,
you know, the inner city definitely moved up
into our area. So there were a lot of gangs.
There were, you know, at the point where I was
in high school, I mean, I think we were 2 ,500
students alone in that high school. So you can
imagine just with anything. So I was kind of
grateful. I didn't grow up in like a private
school. You know, I kind of had to learn the
ropes and, you know, mind P's and Q's, but also
have a little bit of a street mindset to navigate
those groups of who to be involved with and who
to stay away from. When you think about like
the pushback against, you know, not sending jobs
overseas or, you know. And in the argument to
send jobs overseas, oh, well, then my car will
be a little cheaper or my iPod will be a little
cheaper. So, yeah, but at what cost to this country?
And if you look at a lot of the cities and towns
that had mining, that had Detroit and some of
these other places that had the motor industry,
the ripple effect of saving a few dollars by
exporting, I mean, is a generational issue now.
Totally. Totally. And you can understand that,
you know, running businesses and organizations,
it's, you know, even though you're running an
organization, you're still running a business
because you still need money to operate. You
still have operating costs. You still have all
the things that associate to that. So even a
small dip in the economy, especially over even
the last several years, you know, post -COVID
with the recession that we were facing with inflation,
you know, you could feel it through donors because
it's like not too many people could give. to
charitable organizations because they were just,
you know, they themselves were trying to salvage
and make do with their money, which is perfectly
normal and perfectly fine. Absolutely. Well,
going back to school age, what were you playing
and doing as far as exercise and sport? Yeah,
so in sports, I was big into baseball, loved
basketball until I... obviously went to a different
school where you know you're not six foot seven
being able to dunk the ball and you know have
handles like not gonna not gonna matter uh so
then i started playing football and i got brought
up as a as a sophomore started varsity um as
a sophomore was one of the uh again brought up
for varsity baseball as a sophomore and um just
kind of use those platforms to kind of grow into
who I was, you know, essentially going to become
with work ethic and, you know, the different
coaches that I've had over the years, I, I contribute
a lot of my drive and work ethic towards them
and having those authoritarian coaches like,
Hey, like get off your soapbox, like continue
to push. And then, you know, actually during
football, I actually tore my Leonard Labrum.
which is the cartilage inside your shoulder,
protects the socket. And, you know, trying to
come back and becoming a pitcher and then slowly
that being taken away because I couldn't get
the ball over the plate and then just having
to figure out and re -identify myself as a first
baseman was a challenge in itself. But, you know,
I kind of knew at that point. athletics for me
were kind of coming to an end once you're at
that point in your high school career where it's
like all right well i'm not going to college
for this because of this injury so let's face
like what are we going to do what's our next
steps and uh during that time you know we have
this uh like pulley program where the military
comes in and if you're interested you get opportunities
to collaborate with them and go out and see what
they're about and kind of just slowly get indoctrinated
with the culture of of what they want and um
you know from there it was like you know the
marine corps stuck out to me with having you
know nice uniforms always you know dudes just
stoic and um very just to the point and uh yeah
i went out and researched and did a little bit
more uh with a focus towards the Marine Corps
than I did with any of the other branches of
service. Because those at that point, you know,
for in my optics, they were the best of the best
from a large group. And that's where I, you know,
I was like, you know what, these guys are going
to go off to war. They're going to do this. They're
going to fight. And this is what I want for me.
This is how I see myself or this is the group
that I can align with. And I think it was after
I graduated. I went to a prep school, a two -year
school, just a community college. They have a
great baseball program. And found out quickly
within the first semester, I was like, you know
what? This is not for me. This is not where I
want to be. This is not the life that I want
to live. It's not the area I want to live in.
I need something different. And I literally went
down to the recruiting station and was like,
hey, where do I need to sign? How long is it
going to take me? to to get out of here what's
what are the next steps and that was right in
2000 2003 when i did all that so the ward already
kind of kicked off we had 9 11. um so it was
it was kind of funny because the one recruit
was like well trying to go through his his motions
of recruiting like do you want to do your your
at least 12 tabs travel this and that teamwork
like which ones take out i'm like buddy what
don't you understand what do i sign where where
do i sign like what do i have to do and um we
finally got through the process and uh i ended
up leaving in february of 2004 for paris island
which is down in south like beaufort just outside
of beaufort south carolina and uh it was it was
yeah it was that was a trip We're just pulling
the clock back a little bit. Talk to me about
9 -11, that day through your eyes. Through my
eyes, 9 -11, I, you know, freshman, freshman,
sophomore year. And it was like, what the fuck
just happened? Like, are you kidding me? Like
how, wait, what? And there was a nuclear power
plant over by us in upstate New York. So everybody
was kind of worried, like, hey, what's happening
here? And we were just kind of like, all right,
do we go back to school? Do we not go back to
school? So I ended up cutting class the last
half of that day just to sit and watch and see
what was happening. Because, you know, my family,
my uncle was a firefighter. So I didn't know
if he was going to get called in to go down there.
And you can just see, you know, a city in total
chaos. like what's going on what's going on and
then the collapse of the towers happened and
then all of a sudden you start seeing other channels
between the pentagon that popping up and seeing
what the the how coordinated that attack was
on u .s soil um really was just like i want to
i don't want to say it wasn't like infuriating
it was just kind of like that that doesn't happen
here like that's no one's going to come into
our house and do something like that so it's
like what's the next step? And, you know, for
me, it was just obviously I had to wait a couple
of years, but then I knew it's like, there was
a bigger purpose for me to be like, all right,
I, I can't do this. Like this doesn't, this didn't
mean anything to me at that point. So which role
did you find yourself filling within the Marines
themselves? So when I enlisted, I actually enlisted
as a, as a radio operator. So my, my duties were
what i was looking at was hey i wanted to go
into the infantry in some capacity i didn't necessarily
want to be directly to infantry because i wanted
to have something that was transferable post
post work and um you know looking at what i could
do the communication field really kind of gave
a little bit more of a broad picture into where
i could go and um and what industry i could get
involved with So went in as an infantry communications
specialist. Once I finished boot camp, went to
school. I was out in 29 Palms for about three
months. And, I mean, that was shocking because
it's like you're rolling in at 3 a .m. and it's
120 degrees out. And you're like, wait, what?
Where am I going? Like, where is this? And, you
know, every day that we went, because I ended
up going up there to school, it was June through
September. so i was just like every day was like
a black flag day where you're not supposed to
do training and it's just like our instructor
was a former recon guy so he didn't care he was
just like yeah okay black flag sure it is um
but it was just uh it was an experience in itself
to be able to automatically kind of jump into
the travel from you know leaving maps going into
boot camp getting done and you know there's a
whole system and process that goes with that
uh finally finishing that feeling feeling confident
and validated enough for myself of like, I just
completed something that was, that was, it was
difficult mentally, but not like physically challenging
as some would say, it's more of like, Hey, just
forget what you know, and just readapt and apply
the principles that they're trying to teach you.
And, um, I, I, I took hold of that. And uh you
know next step was once we finished school we
got to pick our duty station so where we wanted
to go and it was either going to go artillery
or infantry so i was just like well this is easy
choice. So it was also nice because then I was
on the East coast. So then on, you know, 96 is
or 72 is when we get our time off, I could just
get in a vehicle and just drive straight up.
It was probably going to be more guys from the
East coast that, that I could, you know, resonate
with and create new lasting friendships with.
So that's kind of, that was the path and the
reasoning behind me choosing to go over to two
six on the East coast out of Camp Lejeune. And
I checked in. I think it was like mid -September
of 2004 to my unit. And so was Fallujah where
you were first deployed? Have I got that right?
Yeah. So we did our initial push to Fallujah
in 2000. Well, basically my 21st birthday, September
19th, 2000, 2005, I was actually in transit and,
you know, with the time change and everything
else like that, it was like, Hey, my birthday
was spent on a back of a seven ton cramped in
with a bunch of dudes cruising into Fallujah.
So no Vegas for me and drinking and anything
else like that. I was just like, all right, here
we go. Well, I always ask these two questions
to people that deployed to combat. The first
is a two -part question. The reason I ask this
is when you are back home, you have a very polarized
view of war. It's either kill them all, let God
sort them out, or they're all baby killers. And
in the middle are our men, women, arguably children
that we send overseas with the flag on their
shoulder to go fight for this country and protect
people of that country. Regardless of the politics
that sent you there, because I think we're becoming
a lot more clear now as to some of the distortions
of the 9 -11 and Iraq journey. But regardless
of that, was there a point where you realized
there were some horrific people that did need
to be taken care of? Yeah, absolutely. You know,
there are bad people out there that need to be
taken down. You know, there's no way around it.
involved or being with entities that are sent
off to go and do that type of work so that people
here in your hometown and people that you care,
people that you don't know about, people who
can live that life of not even being able to
conceptualize what that takes to be there is
the reason why I feel as though people like myself
and other people who serve in communal capacities
or whatever the case is um feel the need to to
serve them or to to serve that purpose and some
aren't when they get there they're just like
oh shit no this is not for me either so you know
it's um you you generally you know for me it
was like i was i was glad i was able to be put
into that role and to serve alongside some amazing
human beings and some not so amazing but um that's
anywhere you go and it was it was just you had
a mutual bond and it was between one another
and you didn't want to let one guy down because
you were all part of this system and a part of
that team and i think once you get to that level
you're able to overcome things as a group more
so than just individual thoughts because we you
know we had guys who didn't believe in being
there and what we were doing and you know you
have those views but you're just that's the great
thing about this country and and why i chose
to serve it is like you have the ability to be
objective in your thought ideology and where
that places you so that when it's all said and
done, you were able to still hold true to your
values and complete your contract and go move
on and go do what you wanted to do. Well, the
other side of that question that, again, we don't
really hear, you know, relayed from the combat
zones around the world is moments of kindness
and compassion. I've had so many examples from
people of all branches, from all countries. What
are some moments of kindness and compassion that
you remember from that deployment? I think, you
know, when it first started off, it was yeah
it's like hey this is real like we're here now
let's let's keep our head on a swivel do what
we have to do um you know and you're you're trying
to bring in these ethos to to these villages
and to these people who who don't know much about
anything with with what's actually happening
they know their way of life and then we have
ours and we're now we're we're the invaders we're
the infidels that are coming in so they're trying
to protect their sovereign land You know, so
you try to be hospitable in that sense to to
kind of integrate with what they're doing based
on your mission profile. And for us, it was like,
hey, look, you know, whatever. If you have a
cell phone, if they're doing this, it's the ROEs
kind of set the tone for what our mission was
over there. And unfortunately, you know, looking
at it to a point where, you know, you have a
group of kids. who one of our buddies was throwing
candy down next thing you know he's posted on
august we're getting shot in the head so it goes
from you trying to to have some empathy for these
people to understand like you know you guys just
got rolled through all right now we're back here
we're we're trying to help out and assist in
the capacity and then next you know incidents
like that happen it changes your dynamic and
it changes your focus to where it's like hey
look now now it's on now nobody cares about anything
that's happening here because you you know took
one of our dudes now you're going to feel the
wrath of of what we have to bring and why we're
here in the first place so how long did you find
yourself there and you know where where were
you assigned next so we were we were in country
for seven months fortunately the marines only
have to do seven eight months unlike the army
who's stuck in certain places for like 15 months
which is just like got awful um and then you
get to come home and then have to go back but
um we were there for uh right up until memorial
day um where we were able to come back and then
after that next thing you know we're in new york
city doing fleet week in 2006. so you know we
had a pretty good deployment um and following
that next you know we're in new york city at
ground zero at 9elec like seeing it all firsthand
of four years later um of of all the work that's
being done to to rebuild guys getting promoted
in in sacred lands um so it's like it was just
all so much to kind of to take in um but you
were so proud of the service and the guys that
you're around because okay hey we just got back
from a pretty good deployment and Now we're here,
and this is kind of what drove us, or at least
was a bookmark, an earmark of why we wanted to
serve. So did you deploy again, or did you transition
out after that? No, so we had one year, well,
about nine months in between, we did another
workup, and then we redeployed back to the same
AO. So we were operating back in Fallujah again.
This time it was pretty much from the beginning
of 2007. right up until about October, October,
November. And then I was interested in actually
transferring over to, I was going to re -enlist
out there because they were handing out signing
bonuses. So I was like, all right, well, you
know, I want to go and be a firefighter, first
responder, whatever the case is there. Let me
see what's available. And because I had picked
up rank and I was ended up going to be getting
out as a sergeant in E5 at that time. There was
no billets available for me to transfer over
into a new MOS to take on that new job. So I
ended up going through the motions of, you know,
listening to guys' horror stories before of like
trying to get, you know, to check out of the
unit and everything else like that. And I knew
coming back home off leave, everybody was going
to be on Libo. I was going to get extended. So
I started kind of checking out while I was in
Iraq and nailing down the people. It's like,
well, I know you're going to be here. I'm going
to go in and, you know, listen to your sales
pitch. But then it's like, no, thanks. Here you
go. Can you sign my checkout sheet, please? And
then when I got back, it was just quickly. I
think I was home for maybe a month. And then
I was checked out, enrolled in school. And I
was starting my EMT classes down in Palm Beach
State in January of 2008. So my EAS date wasn't
until February. So I still I was. collecting
full pay, full benefits while I was on the beach,
just hanging out, studying EMT classes. So it
was nice. What was the difference between the
first deployments of Fallujah and the second
one in Iraq? I think the first one was a little
more offensive for us. We didn't have as many
restrictions as we did in the second half. The
second half was more of like, you know, we're
here to help. reintegrate the people that are
coming back in so everybody we locked up and
put away in oh five oh six oh well yeah now they're
gonna get out now they're gonna come back in
and now it's like you have to start giving them
back more leash to assist them in redeveloping
and rebuilding of their of their city of their
country so there was you know for us that we
looked at like we're more of a target we're not
a policing force we're not supposed to be there
you know marines were supposed to come in demolish
it and get out you know not coming in and handing
out bags of rice talking to village elders and
trying to figure out what the political landscape
is for the larger scale intel network that that's
created from from the ground force up so that
was different than you know in hindsight yeah
A lot of people in the military, also in first
responder professions, that transition out is
very jarring. You've got that identity piece.
You've got that tribal element of being part
of a cohesive unit. You've got the shared purpose.
And then a lot of people will say, you know,
then I was at the grocery store in Buffalo, New
York. And, you know, that's when a lot of them
had this kind of downward spiral. What was your
transition like and did the fact that you were
going into another similar? profession make it
easier for you i think that transition was for
me looking back on it now i didn't understand
i didn't know i didn't know what i didn't know
about something it's just like hey look now this
job's over guess what now you have here's your
objectives here's your track i had a plan exiting
and i just needed to execute on those objectives
to get to my final destination in doing so i
mean i started off with like 18 and a half credit
hours. Like I was also taking additional courses
to supplement what I was already taking on EMT
because I felt as though I was seeing all of
my friends and peers through high school, graduating
college, having degrees, getting set up with
jobs. I felt like, I'm like, well, I didn't do
anything. Like, what am I doing? Like, I got
to get my shit together and hurry up and make
this happen. So I can, so I can have a life.
I can have a family. I can do, I can do all these
things. So I, I, you know buried myself uh in
school work and you know it it became difficult
because i was very um i felt like i was an outsider
i felt like i had seen a lot of things that a
lot of people hadn't seen and they couldn't relate
to so for me to try to adjust and change my optics
on real life back to now what's happening here
it was, I couldn't hide it. And I think my anxiety
was, you know, really through the roof. And,
you know, you go to the VA, you try everything,
you know, I couldn't sleep. And that was like,
hey, take Ambien. I'm like, all right, well,
try this. And that didn't work. I was like, look,
I don't like this. I'm waking up too foggy. And
then it was, all right, well, try these, try
this. And it's just like, all right, I'm done
with this. I'm not going to do any of these meds.
And I just tried to really just bury myself more
into work and, and almost pretty much got burnt
out by 2000, 2010, 2011. Like right when I finished
paramedic school, I was just, I was cashed. So
it was, it was, I would say I had a difficult
transition because I didn't know what I didn't
know. You know, you, you separate from the military
with these classes first, you know, it's called
steps and taps. And they're really, it's, it's
two days of steps, three days of taps. And then
they basically say, Hey, fill out everything
for your VA, get all this done, write down everything.
And then from here, here are the resources that
are going to be available to you. Once you're
out now, go find them. And then you're like,
all right, well, sweet. So you're, you know,
you think you're so excited to get out. And,
um, you know, when you do, you're finally like,
you're out in the world and like, Oh my God.
Now you have to you don't account for the adjustment
on the work ethic of others around you and seeing
how people take their time to do things versus
in the military. It's like your job is this.
Go do this. This is what you have to focus on.
I think that was very difficult for me because
I was like, well, why is this process? Why are
all these beer like all this red tape in the
middle of me getting from here to here? Let me
just let's just go. So that was a transition
for sure. One of the things I didn't ask you
about earlier, but this is such a kind of under
-discussed element when it comes to military
and first responder mental health, excuse me,
is so many of us have certain things happen when
you were younger that if left unaddressed contribute
to our struggles once we're wearing the uniform.
When you reflect back to your early life, were
there any elements you think that fractured the
foundation a little bit? Absolutely. Yeah. You
know, like I said, you know, grew up in low middle
class. You know, we pretty much lived, I think,
when I was as a kid, when I moved back to New
York, we were in Section 8 housing for the most
part of what it's looked at right now. And, you
know, it was, you know, separated from my father
or not really separated from my father, but it
was like every other week that we got to see
each other for a period of time until it's like.
until you're done with it. You know what I mean?
It's hard to say, but once you hit a certain
level of maturity, you're just kind of like,
I'm done going with this volley of back and forth
with different households and three different
Christmases and all this other stuff where you're
just like, I'm good. And then, you know, I think
with just the adjustment and being alone or finding
myself involved with sports. That gave me the
ability to kind of align myself with friends
and the people that I would care about or have
that type of communal bond or tribe to overcome
adversity and bounce things off of because I
was around them more so than some of my family,
or I would rather have been around them more
so than some of my family in those instances.
Absolutely. Well, speaking of tribes, walk me
through your journey into the fire service. How
was that transition into that profession? Well,
the transition into that was it was not as not
as not what I expected initially for me being
just, you know, green coming out. I was like,
hey, look, here I am. I'm ready to do this. There
was a big hiring freeze for 2008. through 2009
or 2010. And, um, that's right around the time
when I was going to school. So I was like, all
right, this isn't too bad. So I went to a couple
of local, local departments, put in my application,
got brought in and I was just straightforward.
Like, Hey, this is what, this is where I've been.
Here's my most trying time. Now. Um, I think
at one point when I was, I actually was like,
Hey, let me check out law enforcement side, maybe
be a cop, do something. Almost had a panic attack
inside the thing because I forgot one thing on
my application that I didn't put in. And I was
just like, oh, my God. Like, wow. Like, holy
shit. Like, can't believe that. So bombed that
interview. And then when I got brought in for
another one, I was just kind of very open. Like,
hey, here's everything that the VA has given
me. Here's all the things. Here's my experience.
Here's a. a moment in time when I had to, you
know, on the battlefield, this is what happened,
this, that, and the other thing. And they're
just kind of looking at me like, yeah, this is
never going to pass. Like it's never going to
happen. So I ended up going on and volunteering
with the department, working with a chief who
kind of brought me in and understood like where
I was at, what my headspace was, and really kind
of gave me the opportunity to surround myself
with that group and then be able to kind of learn
the culture. And then from there on, it was a
little, it was much easier. And at that point,
I had an opportunity to go overseas and contract.
And I was just like, well, I'm either going to
work here or I'm going to go over there and make,
you know, what it would be working here three
years to one. So the dynamics of it were. I'm
going to be back in a new place where I hadn't
been, where a war is still going on. I was like,
all right, well, this will give me a chance to
see something different. And then that's when
I was just like, all right, let me put, because
I was with that department for close to three
years, three and a half years, I was with them.
And then left there to go overseas. And I was
overseas for like the next eight years. And it
was one of the best jobs. that I could ever have
because I was finally getting paid at an acceptable
rate. I was able to buy a house. I was able to
live a life. I was able to do the things that,
you know, while incurring so much debt previously,
going to school and just trying to figure life
out, you know, I think that was one of the hard
realizations of getting out of the military because
everything was covered. Everything was paid.
And now you have like real expenses and real
budgets and things that you have to put together.
And if you don't, you could, it's a slippery
slope. where you can literally wake up and you're
$80 ,000, $90 ,000 in debt. And you're just like,
well, how do I get out of this? So for me, it
was really cool just to have the opportunity
of like, all right, well, I'm a paramedic. I'm
a nationally registered paramedic now. You know,
they needed that skill set overseas. I had the
experience in combat. You know, it wasn't. My
experiences never led me to, or the PTSD that
I had never led me to be cognitively impaired.
It was more of, I don't want to say guilt, but
it was a lot of heavy thoughts on what could
have been done differently. A moral injury side.
Yeah. And being over there at that time, you're
around. different breeds whether they were an
sf there were you know different mindsets and
temperaments for the operational tempo that we
were doing there as as protectees that suited
me that suited us and you know it it kind of
filled that void of tribe you know community
and you know being well paid to to to do a job
that you know you expected you've already signed
the check and when it gets cashed it gets cashed
but at least you're doing it in a way that you
know you can see it coming versus being here
in the states you're just kind of like this is
fucking chaos like what is actually happening
here um so that's when i found like i really
had to work on who i was and really started looking
into other programs looking into psychedelics
looking into um different needs of of who i was
as a person um because when i i'd go overseas
you know my blood pressure was i think call it
you know 120 over 80 i come home like 190 over
over 100 and i'm just as as i am right now just
whatever and just but quick to quick to ignite
a fuse um and that wasn't good it you know it
really hurt a bunch of relationships along the
way for who I was versus now having more of an
understanding and actually have done the work
to get to the next level of where I wanted to
be. Well, it's interesting going back to what
you were talking about in the interviews. When
I put my very first pre -app in, it was actually
down your way. It was one of those kind of conglomerates
where you do one EMT test, one fire test, and
they send the results to all the agencies. And
Miami Beach was there. And they had a pre -app.
And again, like you, I was like, oh, well, obviously,
honesty is the most important thing. So, yeah,
years and years ago, I tried this and this, had
a great time, never lost a job. And they literally,
the guy screwed it up. And I remember him just
throwing it at me. And I was like, you're disqualified.
And I'm like, huh. Okay, so you have to lie to
get in the American Fire Service. Got it. And
then ever since then, I lied through polygraphs
and all these things. And I'm not saying it to
be an arrogant dickhead. I'm saying that. Basically,
all the assets that contributed to me being a
good firefighter and a paramedic were completely
ignored from this one little box checking bullshit,
which now, by the way, those compounds are used
for PTSD and we'll get into psychedelics, but
MDMA and psilocybin were the only ones I'd ever
done. And yeah, disqualifying. And this is what
is so broken. I've talked about this a lot. In
our professions, you have the MMPI, which is
that psych test with all the thousands of questions.
And then the polygraph. The polygraph is a magic
show. Done by some fucking tool bag that pretends
to be the FBI's greatest profiler. And he gives
this little speech. It's a beautiful monologue.
It brought a tear to my eye. And then he does
a smoke show. And then you go, no, I haven't
done any of that stuff. And he goes, oh, wow,
you beat the polygraph. Congratulations. And
then you have the MMPI, which is psychology world.
I said, by the way, that was never meant to be
used as a standalone test, certainly to verify
if someone could be a first responder or not.
So both of those are bullshit. So I've been saying
a lot recently, why not take the money that you're
wasting on those? do a solid background check,
of course, but then hire people that have had
some of these things, knowing that so many of
us have got shit in our past, and then give them
counseling sessions. So now at the front door,
Anthony Longo has the ability to start processing
his early life, his time in Iraq, and then becomes
an asset to, you know, aforementioned fire department.
but instead we got oh no check that box oh no
no no you're going to be a liability if you can't
have you negating the other 99 of your lifeline
that's going to be an absolute asset as a first
responder yeah yeah i mean it it's it's an account
it's an accountability issue that i think a lot
of the higher -ups when you get to that to that
level that that they face i mean even now even
even looking at what suicide rates are looking
at the demographics and and what the recruiting
pools are for each of those services right it's
they're not far off from one another there's
some sort of emotional baggage that these individuals
that we all carry bringing into the fire service
that we either admit to or don't admit to um
and it just i you know just falls on to you know
how much is your chain of command willing to
go out of their way to put their neck out there
for you. And it's not going to happen when they
have a cushy salary. Yeah, but it's the culture.
This is the thing. We've got to reframe that
completely and stop pretending like it's only
altar boys that become police officers and firefighters.
Bullshit. We are people. And again, the conversation
is you can have shit in your past, but if you
work through it, if you find your toolbox, now
that becomes an asset as a police officer, as
a firefighter. You're going to be... better you
know under stress you're going to be more compassionate
you're going to see yourself and some of these
people are struggling in society and you will
simply be there but if we've got this box check
and bullshit that's how you end up with this
promotional thing leaning towards all you've
got to have a degree what the fuck is a degree
What does that actually mean as far as being
boots on the ground, good at your job? It means
nothing. So that's how disconnected we are between
what we need to be doing to create great first
responders and this academic box -checking bullshit
that we found ourselves in. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah,
I mean, you look at the kids that just were able
to go to school. They were able to complete a
task, and they did another four years. It was
just like, all right, great. Yeah, I've got a
degree. And the only real value to that degree
is that I can tell people I've got a degree.
So who the fuck is this guy? Well, he's got a
degree in ex -phys. So he must know something
about it. No, I learned all the stuff from coaching,
from coaches, from actually coaching, from getting
hurt, rehabbing injuries, not from that piece
of paper that I got in a classroom. Yeah. yeah
it's interesting dynamic all right we'll go into
the other side so before we get to some of the
things that you know you were doing in afghanistan
you mentioned starting your own healing journey
and exploring this toolbox. And I think people
don't realize how vast this toolbox actually
is from canines and, and, and, you know, horses
all the way through to psilocybin and, you know,
Ibogaine and everything in between. What was
that journey of healing for you? Where did you
find yourself finding success with some of these
modalities? Yeah. So, so for me, it started off
with, you know, obviously having a great schedule,
great work schedule, 105 days on 35 days off.
And, you know, being with a close -knit group
you start hearing what their travel experiences
are and where they're going you know parts of
the world that they're finding themselves in
because we're all trying to make money and we
were all trying to preserve that money by staying
out of our country for 330 days so we were not
taxed and um you know finding those opportunities
of listening to what they did on their leave
block and seeing who they were when they came
back you're just kind of like wow this is like
it's deep And that attracted me to being able
to have that much self -awareness of the process.
And it led me to start reading more books on
mindfulness and just the neurocog side of what
can we do to develop these things or put systems
in place that help us to be better. and to improve
our relationships, to improve communication.
Because I think a lot of us, that's the one I
think that sticks out to me the most is communication.
I think we all have this huge void in our ability
to effectively communicate without feeling as
though we're either having somebody tear us down
or tearing somebody else down, like making it
so like we're losing our own identities when
that's not the case. It's just a matter of like,
okay. How many times do we have to do the same
thing to really understand like, hey, this is
a problem. And then what can we do to change
that course? So when I started slowly, gradually
getting introduced to psychedelics, I first initially
started off with like microdosing and psilocybin
and doing mushrooms, not in any controlled way,
but just like exploring. And it was the post.
session that I really felt like the squelch box
and the squawk box was off. Like it was the one
time where my mind was not continuing to run
an ultra marathon where I was just like, Oh wow.
Like I'm at peace right now with this. This is
amazing. I can actually enjoy being around people
who would, who would. I would generally just
have a lit fuse being around and it would help
me kind of really understand what that relationship
was for what it was and how I could be better
for myself and restructure what I was doing to
kind of fit that box. And I recognize that, Hey,
that only goes so far, right? Like there's only
so many people that you're going to travel the
same path before it bifurcates or it goes in
another direction where it's just like, okay.
we were just meant to do this fantastic we can
go this way and we're still going to be close
but we don't have to be you know we're not in
like a a deep relationship where we have to feel
you know pissed off that well we're not friends
anymore because we don't all do like the same
um and and that's what it helped me kind of understand
and the more that i went through and between
you know psilocybin and then microdosing with
lsd and the nuances between the two of those
where you know mushrooms that'll take you up
and take you down you got these ebbs and flows
that are you know high highs low lows and waves
um where lsd was very you know kind of like hitting
the the seek button where it just goes from channel
to channel that's that's airing so it was a cleaner
more just level -headed um therapy session for
me and then it was all about the post where i
was like really able to like what when i was
in that space what stood out what did i have
to work on what did i have to earmark and say
hey this is what's resonating with me this is
what's really kind of the ember of my fire that
what aggravates me how can i chip away at that
and find new ways and be more productive with
my own space and my healing and um which Fast
forward a couple years later, you start hearing
everybody doing ayahuasca. You start seeing aboga
and everything else kind of coming out. Then
you hear about DMT, and you're just kind of like,
oh, shit. I don't know if I need that. You're
just like, whoa. And I felt as though with...
with only being able to get so far, I was just
like, I got to go deeper because I'm still holding
on to shit. And is it, is it me or is it the
people around me? What am I doing? Because I
feel like I'm still sticking square peg round
hole. Like this is not, this is not what I want
to have. And, um, my, my first time doing five,
you know, DMT, I was just like, what the fuck
was that? Like. wow like not so much the setting
was my vibe because it's kind of like being you
know in a in a group setting the circle everybody's
around you and um i didn't know anybody there
except one of my buddies who who was like hey
man this is good so i was like all right i'm
following your lead i'm gonna lean on you and
um ended up being the my deep dive it was just
like crossed over went completely went completely
black really really small speck of white far
off into the distance and then i kind of popped
up and i was just like after about 20 minutes
of that i popped out and i was just like wow
and i i you know i kicked myself in the ass now
because i felt like i should have just stayed
in and wrote it a little bit longer to to really
kind of conceptualize and and gain more insight
but i was the first time where it was just like
I didn't have that blast. I blasted off, but
I didn't have that, like, mental cog of hold
on, keep holding, keep holding. Like, it was
gone. It was like, let go. And once I figured
that out, I was able to really, I was like, wow,
I'm happy for this. I'm happy about that. And
then I was absolutely petrified following the
next, like. 15 sessions that we did because it
was just still like i was trying to hold on and
finally i went out and i i did a session by myself
outside of the group and i was really able to
like you know with being in nature and and having
you know just taking a deep breath in and feeling
the wind wash over me in unison of me you know
expelling a breath i was just kind of like i
was able to felt like you know those rubber band
balls in the office Back in the day, it felt
like an unshackling where it's like you were,
if that was all of my anxiety, it was like taking
a hot razor blade and just slicing strand by
strand of where my mind was and being able to
navigate that and control that to then being
able to come back home and falling into just
new habits and making myself And learning how
to love myself is really what it came down to.
Not putting so much of your ego into you're a
piece of shit. You didn't get this done. You
need to go harder. You need to be harder than
everybody else there. You need to do this. And
it's like, that's good for a certain point, but
you still have to be able to look inside and
still love yourself and give yourself some grace
for some of the accomplishments. and i can say
that now but i still battle it every day where
it's not like yeah dude you're not where you
need to be you need to still go but it's not
as not as extreme as what it was but it gave
me hope that i was able to find something where
it wasn't like i wanted to abuse this in any
way because i was just like petrified to even
do it again where i was just like nah i'm good
like that was i got a lot of it it you know it
lasted you know, five or six months. It really
lasted up until, you know, to now for a lifetime,
I would say, because it gave me a lot of true
value of insight. But the ability of just like
feeling things that would piss you off normally,
it's just like, why, why allow it to hold that
real estate in your head? Why are you going to
like, for what reason? And then it translated
to different relationships. And it just gave
me a different sight picture set alignment of,
you know, What my needs were, where I needed
to be, who I needed to focus my energy on, who
deserved my energy, who didn't. What relationships
were just, you know, hey, that's a wash. There's
no reason to hang on to this animosity towards
people anymore. Where it's like, whatever, because
they're not thinking about me. And if they are,
so what? Big deal. So that was a huge turning
point for me. You know, even with my dog, you
know, who, who I've had at that point up until,
I mean, he was probably, I would say five or
six years old at that point. Um, you know, I
saw a vision or something of him. And then when
I got home, um, from that experience, which was
a whole other, you know, you're coming off five,
let me have DMT. Then you got to go integrate
with people. You know, it's like, dude, like,
oh, fuck. Here we go. Now I'm in, you know, the
airport. And I'm just like, shit. I had to call
up a buddy. I was like, hey, dude, I don't know,
like, how I'm going to do this. Because I got
five hours on this flight. And, like, I got to
fly all the way back here. This is horrible.
I definitely didn't plan correctly. So next thing
you know, I'm in an aisle seat, like, just strapped
in and had my hands all tucked in. I'm just like,
oh, man, like, this is going to be bad. Like,
I feel bad for the dude next to me. He's like,
he's just a psychopath. But when I got home,
it was like, I was, I just told my mother, I
was like, Hey, look, don't ask me any questions.
I'm not, I don't know anything right now. But
I do know that I just need, I just need a minute.
I just need time. And my dog, I was just looking
at him. I was like, was that you? And for the
first time, like, you know, there was an experience
and connection that, you know, With back and
forth to Afghanistan, coming home, there was
never a like being reunited with him in a sense
of from that day. Like he was literally, after
I asked that question, spinning all over me in
the front passenger seat, blowing his coat all
over the vehicle. Was that you? That was you,
wasn't it? And he's just like, he would go even
more. And I was just like, this is wild. And
we got back to the house and I literally. slept
for probably two or three days after that of
just trying to like all right let me walk outside
let me let me reinstitute some of these um these
tasks that i had planned for myself as far as
my journey goes of here's what i want to do here's
what i want to build on um to be able to take
that in and i was just like you know i could
really sense the difference of who i was and
what i wanted to become and that gave me a lot
of hope of like okay it's it's going to be fine
life is not that bad anymore like this is life
is actually very simple people make this very
hard you know it's it's just one of those things
where you get that that 50 000 foot overview
of like okay we're all just plugged into this
system with this matrix like what are we doing
how do we stop it um and it was just it was it
was a really a breath of fresh air that i was
able to get from that experience As I'm hearing
more and more and getting deeper into all these
different healing modalities, especially when
it comes to the psychedelics, the plant medicines,
one thing that's now, I think, the next phase
is, and I just had Kagan Gill on the show, who's
a friend of mine. We went around the world together
on 7X with Patrick. Yeah, great dude. And he's
got this thing, I think it's called Mind Dojo.
I might have that wrong. But anyway. so you do
a psychedelic journey you have these eye -opening
experiences but then there's a lot of people
that just oh and then six months i go do it again
and his whole thing is and i'm sure the people
he surrounds himself with is all right you've
opened the door but now you need to work through
all the things that you just found and so you
have meditation and breath work and you know
time in nature and you know time with animals
whatever the things are what has been your experience
of that the the awakening that you had with the
psychedelics versus what needs to come next Yeah,
I think the, the awakening was, you know, again,
it comes down to self -love. What is the, what
is the underlying thing that, that motivates
you that where you're happy in your own skin,
you're you're, you're at peace and you understand,
and you kind of have this, this seventh sense
or enhanced sixth sense of just being able to
see the right people that you want to align with.
And you just. you all right i'm going this is
this makes me happy i feel comfortable here or
they're pushing me in a way that this is conducive
to my growth um and it really just came down
to what were those deficiencies how hard are
you going to work on them what are the steps
that you're going to put into place because like
you said it's like hey yeah you can go do this
six months and then six months later you're finding
yourself having to go back and do it again because
did you even work on Or did you just fall back
into thinking like this was going to be a one
-off and I'm good, I'm solid. It takes everything
away. It's no, it's, it's a lot of, you know,
relationships. Like what is the toxic relationships
that you find yourself in that you get involved
with and that you don't want to get away. And
that's communication. It's just like, there's
so many things that I was able to take away from
that to understand, like, I didn't want to be
involved with toxic relationships. I didn't want
to be a contributing factor to that in any way.
Um, you know, so there, there were some, I mean,
bro, it's like a, it's, it's hard to explain
like the, the, the number of lessons that were
learned, um, because you still, you come back
normal when it all settles. Like you're still
a normal human being following that. You just
learn ways of how to digest it and what you need
to digest. And, and, you know, If you're just
in a shitty situation and you're just lying to
yourself and you're going to continue lying to
yourself because you're trying to make something
work, you're not going to find yourself healing.
You're always going to find yourself compromising
for another individual or for another situation
versus standing up for yourself and being like,
hey, as much as this is going to fucking suck
to have to start over, here are the potential
outcomes if I do. And here's where I'm going
to be happy. So you have to weigh those out case
by case. And fortunately for me, never married,
no children. Most of my adult life has been spent
overseas. So for me coming home, it was just
always like, all right, hey, this is all fun.
This is great. But then starting the organization,
coming back and working with individuals who
have a lot of multi... multi -system traumas
and just trauma mental mental health issues um
knowing that i could bear the weight of of assisting
them and helping them through their path through
the dogs that's really kind of where i felt my
need because it was like look here's one tool
the dog is a tool it's not an end -all be -all
like you know it's it's it's it can be life -changing
if you want it to be Um, but looking at a proprioceptive
neurocog dog and what we were building out and
how we wanted to see things happen for an individual
with a TBI, brain injuries, mental, whatever
the case is, it gives you that, that moment space
and time of just nothing fucking matters except
for this moment that you're with your dog right
now, troubleshooting and problem solving and
to having a, a, a hand in a purpose to what you're
doing for yourself. Because it's my dog. It's
my property. It's my thing that I'm working for
myself and my overall mental health. Nobody else.
And it gives you that time and place of just
shutting down and focusing on what your needs
are. And a lot of us don't ever admit to, what
do I like to do? Like, it's hard for me to say,
well, I like to do this. I like to do a bunch
of shit. But what can I say? Like, I really love
to do and sitting down and where it's not work.
It's, it's like this, whatever, man, I'm, I'm
training dogs. I'm having a great time. I'm,
I'm helping people. I'm coordinating, I'm plugging
holes and doing logistical stuff. Like I'm able
to help people get to the next level in their
life and save a couple of lives here and there
where I can, or if I can in that process. And
that for me was, was what I found with the dogs
and, and to be able to just, you know, Think
about being in a shitty relationship with your
wife or just constantly fucking by just getting
yelled at all the time. Now it's like, hey, I
got to take the dog outside. Hey, I'm going to
take him for a ride. I'm going to go. We're going
to go here. We're going to go train. You know,
and I think it's for for the programming that
we built. It gives that person the the ability
to to take a pause in the day to go focus on
themselves and to find that that meditative state.
Because for some of us, meditation for me is
very hard. My flow state is chaos, I guess, in
a sense where I have to have a bunch of things
going because I can just naturally just move
through and find the resources and solve for
X where, you know, sit me down. say, hey, go
to the beach. You're going to hang out here all
day. I will be crawling out of my skin like,
fuck, I'm sweating. It's so fucking hot. I'm
getting all sandy. Like, I don't want to be here.
This is terrible. Seeing everybody run around,
dogs going crazy. I'm just like, oh, God. So
that's kind of, I guess, an essence of being
able to identify solutions for yourself. It comes
down to self -love. What about performance? I
think one of the most powerful tools when it's
the naysayer, when it's the guy or woman who
kind of doesn't buy into the whole mental health
conversation in the fire service, for example,
and say, all right, then, Rockstar, if you truly
want to be the best version of yourself as a
firefighter, firstly, you need to change your
work week. And I know Palm Beach with Pat is,
you know, they've gone to the 24 -72. So I'll
just slide that in there. The department is finally
getting it. But secondly, if you want to get
in the flow state, you've got to have 10 ,000
reps, you've got to have high stress, and then
you've got to have a clear mind. So if you look
at Delta and some of these tier one operators,
they are working with all these organizations
that ironically work really well with mental
health, also for performance. So it's a win -win
situation. What were you seeing as far as your
ability to operate as you were on this healing
journey? Good question. I was able to itemize
and what I needed to compartmentalize what needed
attention and what didn't need attention. And
for me, that was, you know, the ability of, hey,
go to the gym, go do this. go go work out um
it was you know establishing new relationships
it was being able to to sit and have peer support
groups where you're talking to individuals who
you admire, you look up to, whether it's in business,
whether it's in your occupational field, whether
it's in just a simple area of interest. It's
diversifying that portfolio to find new tools
for the toolkit that you could put into your
everyday system. It's like a software update
of being able to say, oh, I learned this from
this guy. Let me try this. And oh, this is working
well for me. Let's continue to roll with this.
I think it's like those small little victories.
To be able to appreciate small victories is probably
the biggest thing that I think I learned. If
I'm understanding the question correctly, I think
that was where... we all kind of get lost in
the sense of especially if you're running your
own business if you're doing something and elon
musk said it great it's like as a ceo or an executive
in a higher level you're always eating glass
you're never really celebrating the wins of what
you do accomplish because you're always faced
with the problems you're always faced with what
didn't go right how do i fix this how do i increase
these different spends and whatever i have to
do to where you're never really looking at The,
the, the, the momentum that everybody sees of
like, oh, well you helped this. Oh my God, you
put this dog here. You've done this. Like we've
had some, some great individuals that we were
able to work with who. who have helped me grow
in so many different ways. And I was just happy
to be like that one speck, a part of their life
to help them change their thing. And that's created
a, you know, a brotherhood in itself of always
being able to have someone to reach out to and
call and respect and, you know, understanding
those, those different relationships and how
they can, I don't want to say be transactional
to a degree, but to be able to. to have a true
meaningful friendship in a way that you're it's
mutually beneficial absolutely well i want to
get to the dogs obviously the impact on yourself
and then create a non -profit but just before
we do talk to me about the us compound attack
so that was in 2005 uh we had just stood up a
um new team up at alvarado off of um uh at the
airport in kabul and we were all out there just
kind of hanging out doing whatever you know i
think we just got them playing freaking cornhole
or something like that and uh it was right around
1700 maybe even like 1800 whatever um you felt
this explosion go off and this was just like
oh and it's like you know you're kind of like
damn whoever's on that like they got fucked up
like you knew that there was like there was there
was like all right hey we're just waiting to
see where that was and um it just so happened
to be just outside of abbey gate um where this
v -bid rolled up through this alleyway and just
deaded and then it was in between um two compounds
one was an american compound which literally
i mean you're looking at 20 foot T walls on nobody
has an understanding what that is. It's think
of the, the T walls on the side of the road that
they put in for, for crowd control or whatever,
but just add, add another, you know, 15, 15 feet
onto that dusted like gone. you know, windows
blown out, shipping containers that we used to
live in. Those were just dumped over, peeled
over. The majority of the infrastructure inside
that, I mean, it was just, like, vaporized. And
then you see this, you know, this monster crater
where it's, like, 15, 20 feet wide, freaking
almost 10 feet deep. You're just like, fuck,
okay. You see the driver who skipped off one
of the other T walls that was still there and
his body was over here. And, you know, you just,
you roll through, you know, and being that it
was a mass CAS, you had guys that were stuck
under equipment, you had things. So there was
a lot of, a lot of logistics. Unfortunately,
our QRF team, you know, we were, we were responsible
for that type of incident if it were to happen.
So when we rolled in. set up a perimeter move
in and then from there it's just a matter of
like hey jumping on bodies and like hey you'd
start just mass triage this person's got to go
here this has got to happen here um and at that
point everybody was just getting shuffled out
and going right to the uh the hospital that they
had at the airport um and then from that it was
just the next few days um going through debris
removal trying to get things set up and you know
holding perimeter holding security to make sure
that that void that was just created was was
protected and secured um so for the most part
it was just a it was an incident that we responded
to it it was um lasted all throughout the night
for the next few days uh just pulling bodies
and you know fortunately there were only minor
injuries sustained for some of the americans
there were only a few deaths on the local national
side and some of the other embassies or agencies
contractors that were in that in that vicinity
experienced some casualties as well but um we
were able to the the people that we were able
to work on we were able to get out and and that
was pretty much the the sum of some of that incident
That's horrendous, though. Especially triage.
I haven't actually had a mass cash that size,
at least. I had one in LA, but I wasn't on the
triage team. But just to have to walk around
and tag people appropriately, and even if someone
is circling the drain, putting a black tag on,
basically, I can't imagine, especially if children
are involved. I mean, that's one of the most
brutal things that any kind of first responder
or emergency personnel are going to have to do.
Yeah. yeah and it's like you know you you train
for it because it's like you're with a bunch
of capable men and women um for us our team was
was predominantly uh male infused so for us it
was like you know in the event even if we did
get shot it's like hey man if you can walk you
can move put your shit on let's go like so systematically
you get it you get it down and you're so you
know from experience it's like you know you're
just just structured compartmentalized like hey
this you just quick look over glance like hey
now this isn't this dude's got to go we got to
move this guy um so yeah it was uh it was it
was definitely a an interesting time i can imagine
well let's get back to the dogs and i just i
meant to ask that earlier so i wanted to put
that in there um you have this moment where you
come back now your dog's putting fur all over
the car and spinning around you in circles Talk
to me first about your kind of awakening when
it came to that connection with your own canine.
So interestingly enough, I secured my dog four
years in advance to that. So for me, I picked
him out at three days old. He's like this little
hamster, literally just born. Didn't even have
his eyes open yet. And we started doing NeuroStem,
which was, you know, adopted by the military
to induce stress on an animal so that this way
later on in life that that dog would easily be
able to handle stress more efficiently than dogs
that don't have it. And, you know, from that
point, you know, he and I were connected together.
It took some time for our relationship to develop.
Within that process of working him through those
years, it gave me that purpose of being able
to focus on myself. It gave me the interest.
It gave me essentially another hobby of being
able to look at and read and break down what
the animal was telling me versus the everyday
relationship. Hey, man, you want to go outside
and throw the ball? It's like, of course he does.
but really like what were his needs too and where
I was deficient as a handler to really kind of
map out and look at ways of improving our relationship
by being able to clear up my communication. And,
you know, with that, it was, you know, understanding
the reward cycle, being able to mark and maneuver
and do a whole bunch of different things. And
I always try to tell, you know. individuals like
guys I work with, or even some private clients,
you know, what you want to focus on today is
going to be looking into a kaleidoscope. It's
like, oh shit, what do I got to do? Where do
I start? Well, you just start small and you work
your way up. You perfect one thing and then you
kind of move on, but you add pressure. You're
always kind of going back to that one thing.
From there, it was just it laid the groundwork
of being able to be present, be mindful, be understanding
and coming into that space of, OK, this is something
that I can that I can resonate with. It wasn't
something that was just given to me. I had to
earn that relationship with my animal and obviously
with the with the people around me as well. But
it really just kind of brought. my ability to
escape and go be with my dog, do what I wanted
to do in a way to connect with other people who
had similar interests. And, you know, traveling
with him for the first time, you know, we went
to, went to Costa Rica. He was seven months old.
So we, we did a flight from, where did we go?
We went from Palm beach to the 2014 all -star
game. where it was Derek Jeter's last all -star
game. So I was like, I have to go. And I'm finally
on leave. So we went up to Minneapolis. First
time I've been home. First time I've ever, like,
well, second time I've been ever in Minneapolis.
First time I've ever been there where I actually
know what the hell is happening, what's going
on. And, you know, I have my dog. We went to
the Home Run Derby. Then we went to the all -star
game. And then following that trip, we shot down
to Costa Rica and spent like 14 days in Costa
Rica. Well, little did I know, like my first
Malinois, I didn't know any different. You know,
we're getting ready, you know, having a great
time. He's running around and doing a whole bunch
of, you know, bad dog shit, just having a good
time. And, you know, we're getting ready to leave.
Next thing you know, we have the whole house
locked up downstairs. we thought everything was
locked up downstairs or upstairs, went downstairs,
started cleaning up, getting ready to put stuff
in our rental. Next thing you know, we're outside
just doing a quick, uh, quick, you know, final,
final walkthrough. And next thing you know, he's,
he's opens a window. We come to find out scales,
a roof hops on, on a vehicle. And it's just running
around like, Hey, where are you guys going? Like,
don't leave me. Like I'm here. I'm just like,
what the fuck? Like, dude, do you need locked
up? I don't want to lose this dog. He was running
off into the jungle. And, um, No, it was just
like my first time there. I was just like, okay.
And then at the airport, we're delayed for eight
hours. Didn't get out of the airport for like
eight hours. So we're just sitting there. I'm
just like, oh my God. But it was just so refreshing
to kind of have that escape and be able to have
that animal there where nothing else mattered.
The situation didn't affect me nearly as much
because I had something that I could lean into
and lean on. That was there for me as much as
I was for him. And, you know, fast forward a
couple years, I ended up getting another dog.
And that ended up being our breeding bitch for
our program. And right as I got out, I started
the organization in 2016. didn't take it live
until 2017 2018 where i did the my first litter
and then that first litter was a whole learning
curve of having a bunch of little malinois puppies
running around and i don't know too many people
who know this but they're little terrorists that
straight up will ruin anything that you like
they'll destroy it if you're not paying attention
to them if they're quiet they're just tearing
up like you have like all right where are you
um but it allowed me to really reflect on hey,
you know, using the hypervigilance and all of
those things that kind of equated towards PTSD
and what we're thinking about, it gave me the
ability to focus on my dog and it gave me something
to worry about or to constructively utilize that
tool I was given to place that into my animal
and into the work that I was performing. So with
the puppies, it just came out. it was awesome
it was just a unique experience where you know
we were able to to link dogs up with some some
really cool individuals and people that needed
them and then that just kind of slowly progressed
into into where we're at today um and tying guys
in with coming in literally living with us for
for up to five weeks in my own home you know
learning how to cook dinners or do stuff and
doing events recreational activities um that
that were interested or they were at least at
one point in their life interested in and um
you know to be able to give that back to them
and also on top of that give back a dog that
would be able to change them in their direction
trajectory of life that was like something super
meaningful to me um you know because as a medic
you want to help somebody you want to you know
you can read a person it's like all right well
sick not sick that's easy go through everything
that's learned and then you just kind of map
out and start tailoring dogs to you know what
this person's needs are going to be where you
can see deficiencies and in the dog and in the
person in the handler because you have enough
experience with enough dogs under your belt to
know like okay this is going to drive this person
or this isn't so they kind of set the tone for
us absolutely i i've i've had two german shepherds
now i had them growing up and then there was
a period for a long time i didn't have any then
we had shih tzus with my first wife Um, which
didn't, I mean, there was sweethearts, but when
I had my little son, the, the kind of, uh, pack
mentality became dangerous. So we ended up giving
them to, um, a couple that we knew and they had
them right away until they passed away, which
is amazing. But so yeah, I had my first shepherd
and she absolutely has been, you know, my foundation.
Cause as you hear a lot of people say, you know,
even if you're deeply depressed, that dog still
needs to be walked. It needs to be fed. It needs
to be watered. And it gives you a purpose outside
yourself. But I want to put a question to you.
I've got a little three -year -old German Shepherd
now. I lost my other one a couple of years ago.
And she is a sweetheart. And I do a lot of walks
with her. And then we do the balls and the games.
And she's, I would argue, pretty obedient. But
my God, the anxiety before a walk and the anxiety
in the car, the whining and the spinning around.
I know it's always us that we're doing something
wrong. I've tried written stuff. I've tried the
dog whisperer stuff. When you look at all these
people and all the right ways of doing it, all
the wrong ways of doing it, when it comes to
that kind of anxiety, what is the kind of common
denominator that we're missing? Because, I mean,
obviously that's a barrier to that particular
animal being. you know, a service dog at the
moment. They can't be out in public or on a plane
if they're going to be spinning around and whining
for nine hours. So what are some of the issues
that you see with us as far as creating some
of these behaviors? I think brass tacks is anthropomorphizing
with the animal. I think it's like you give animals
human traits where it's like you find a sense
of like trying to give them the attention you
would to a human. And it's recognizing, all right,
how do I break this down? How can I reward behaviors
where if I did something different to change
up what was causing that anxiety or finding a
way to harness that drive and make it work for
me? In a constructive way, especially if it's
something where it's like aggravating, where
you're like, fuck, just stop. Like, all right,
come on, let's go. You know, I get it. You know,
it's really being able to communicate with the
dog of like, hey, let's take a step back. Let
me maybe put you on place. Let's hold you here.
I'm going to come up to you when you settle and
you're quiet. I'm going to come closer. I'm going
to give you what you want. And then you slowly
take those wins and you gradually progress. And
being able to put the brakes on the dog, because
a lot of people, you know, their animals are
all gas and there's no brakes. So you have to
be able to manage, you know, those expectations
and those realities, even, even with your dog.
Even our dogs have, have, you know. I don't want
to say liabilities, but they have tendencies
to do X, Y, and Z. So it's like, hey, you need
to be cognizant of this. And this is how we work
through these problems together. But in essence,
if a dog's super excited, you know, you give
them the possession by working in closely once
they've settled. And you have to make sure that
they're clear with that. So it's like, you know,
when they know that they're going for a walk,
they're super excited. You have that routine
down. Maybe it's switching up the routine. Maybe
it's getting away from what's already previously
known to maybe doing something a little bit different
to where you capture the dog off beat, but they're
paying attention to you. And then now you have
that capture where you can begin doing what you
want to do and changing or modifying those behaviors.
What about as far as rewarding what would be
the animal's correct behavior? Are you using
food normally? yeah so we generally have food
driven dogs um that that at least we we i like
to use food driven dogs uh but if you have a
ball or if you have something it's just it's
making sure that the transaction um is very clear
and what they're doing and um what i mean by
that is like hey when they're down and say yes
boom here's your ball or yes boom here's here's
here's your food you know we use clickers i think
clickers are easy because It's easy for me to
transfer the dog over with a clicker so that
the end user knows and can understand the reward
system. But I think once you have a dialed in
reward system and you understand left and right
lateral limitations, then that's any relationship,
right? So I think you get a better product with
just defining what that reward system looks like.
Brilliant. Well, I appreciate that. That was
just personally for me. All right. Well, then
before we talk about where, wherever you can
find the nonprofit and we'll talk about some
closing questions. What are some success stories
that really kind of resonate with you as far
as this program so far? Oof. Man. I think the
successes that we've had in being able to put
out close to 46 dogs at this point, a number
of medical retreats and just retreats in general,
the end users of who we've been able to work
with, whether it's, you know, MARSOC Marines,
Navy SEALs, Green Berets, you know, whoever from
the special operations community, it's just finding
that they're, they're bought into themselves
like you've given them the ability to have some
level of independence and that they're going
to be okay and you know sometimes it doesn't
work out i i had a really really close friend
who took his life last year um and that shocked
me because it's like we had normalized these
conversations of suicide to the point where it's
like dude just call me whatever come i don't
give a fuck if you show up day of just come to
the house and you'll be fine don't worry about
anything whatever so that really rocked me um
because we thought we had that open dialogue
and it's like the successes i think is knowing
that you can't you can't save everybody but as
long as you're helping one person at a time um
and and you see the difference of how it translates
them and how it impacts their lives that's been
a large success, all the personal stuff, man,
like been awarded for certain that, that doesn't
mean that doesn't mean shit for me. Cause it's
not about, you know, the, the awards, you know,
and the glory of it. Cause to me, it's like,
I'd rather put myself out of business now and
not have to worry about this shit so that we
know that we're doing the right thing and it's
being, you know, and it's effectively managed.
Um, but I'm just happy that The people who we've
been able to touch and the people who see our
program, see what we're doing, knowing that we're
not a one trick pony, knowing that it's like
really it's your choice to be here because we
don't owe anybody anything. Like the reason why
you're coming to us is, you know, whether it's
for a dog or whether it's for, you know, some
of the other services that we offer, it's just
a matter of you wanting to be in that headspace
to heal and being open enough to receive those
lessons of whatever you might be able to take
away from that to implement and strategize into
your life. so i think that's been that's probably
that's that is the the probably the the the most
gracious gift that i've been able to to value
as you know proven performances like hey man
i've worked with some bad dudes and they're good
right now like they're they're they're in a position
where it's like you don't have to worry about
them or If you do, we have a tight network where
it's, hey, man, I'm struggling. And it's just
like, all right, well, what can we do? So I think
that's probably the most glory that I can take
away from any of that. Because it's a shitty
thing, man. It's like you're constantly dealing
with, you know. that space in your head where
it's like, you're not good enough. You're not
this, like, what the fuck am I doing doing this?
Like, I need my own help. I like, you know what
I mean? It's just like, it's, it's always a back
and forth. It's always moving the goalposts,
always trying to strive. Um, so I would just
say that the people that we've been able to work
with and the people who believe in our program
and who understand it, who have reached out,
would communicate, um, that's probably the base
success. Beautiful. Well, where can people find
it if they want to actually be part of the program
or if they simply want to donate? Yeah, so if
they want to find us, it's www .warriorschoice
.org. You can find us on Instagram at Warriors
Choice Foundation. Social media, whatever else,
our app around Facebook is at Choice Warriors.
We have an event coming up next weekend, which
is where I think we were first supposed to link
up with the CrossFit Seadog Summer Showdown,
which is a fitness competition where this will
be our third year. hosting the adaptive athlete
division so it's one thing that we wanted to
bring to this where it's like hey man we got
dudes that have been blown up it's like no you
can still compete you can still do this um where
you know it's really about giving back to that
to those individuals who you know hate to say
it like they feel like they can't do that but
it's like no you can let's let's go let's see
you know every year same time but um Yeah, social
media, Instagram, you can call us, reach out.
And that's pretty much if you want to get involved
with us, that's how you do it. Beautiful. Well,
I want to throw some quick closing questions
at you if you've got time. Absolutely. So the
first one I'd love to ask, is there a book or
are there books that you love to recommend? It
can be related to our discussion today or completely
unrelated. Yes. The Talent Code, I think it's
by David Coyle. Um, tribe by Sebastian Younger.
Um, I do like Jocko's book. Uh, let me see what
that was. The extreme ownership, that one ownership.
Yeah. Yeah. That one. Yeah. I think that, yeah,
that would be, those would be my top right now.
There's a lot of, there's a lot to take away
from that. Absolutely. Well, what about films
and documentaries? Films and documentaries. I
think it's just find the voice that connects
with you and listen to that. Was it Dr. Hubert?
The dude that came from Cali? The Huberman? Huberman,
yeah. I mean, to listen to him talk, it's great.
Um, you know, find a podcast that, you know,
that, that resonates, uh, around the same people
in the same thought processes that you have and,
and try to dive in and just, you know, continue
to learn and teach yourself. Um, movies though,
man, I love movies, but it's so hard to like,
you know, be stunned theatrics. It's just like,
um, yeah, I don't know. I'll have to get back
to you on that one. I'll send them to you. Yeah,
no problem at all. All right, well, the next
question, is there a person that you recommend
to come on this podcast as a guest to speak to
the first responders, military, and associated
professions of the world? Oh, 100%. I think Pat
Burrows absolutely needs to get on. I think a
buddy of mine, Tom Heaton. I think another buddy
of mine, Andrew Arabito. I think Morgan Stahl.
I'll definitely call out Morgan again in a heartbeat.
And yeah, I can definitely send you out a list,
man. There's, there's a, there's a bunch of good
dudes that I've been able to surround myself
with who can really kind of tell their story
and, and, and give out some new light and hope
is, you know, we're all going through some shit,
man. It's just a matter of who resonates, who
do you resonate with? A hundred percent. Yeah.
And you hit on the word hope. That's it. That's
the project I'm working. I'm turning my book
into a show at the moment. And I say I'm at the
moment I'm beginning the process, but it's going
to happen. And that's just it. You know, I think
this mental health story in some areas has become
a very doom and gloom kind of portrayal. And
it was stuck on the word stigma, which doesn't
fucking mean anything. And I think what we need
is the hope, the hope of post -traumatic growth,
the hope of the version of you that's done the
work and is now a beacon of light for others.
Yeah. Cause you know, I think about it and it's
like that, that led me to this, right? Like my,
my traumatic experience of being on the battlefield,
being shot at, being in a, in a really fucked
up situation when it was all said and done led
me to never want to be in a position where I
couldn't help somebody or I couldn't perform.
to give somebody the type of aid that they needed.
And, you know, maybe that's my survivor's guilt
of whatever. But for me, it was a reflection
of I could still function. I could still do what
I wanted. I was still very clear cognitively.
Now, next step was, what could I do? Because
I didn't have any medical training other than,
hey, put a tourniquet on it, take your pill pack,
and that's it. it's total different story when
a dude needs a crike and this, and you're like,
what the fuck do I do? I'm in the back, like,
uh, keep the red shit in the body. Okay. You
know? So I think it comes down to taking those,
those moments that you think compartmentalize
you or drowned you in finding the good in it
and the lesson that was supposed to be taught
and strategizing and how to build from that.
Absolutely. All right. Well, the last question
before we just kind of reiterate where to find
you, what do you do to decompress? What do I
do to decompress? I go out to the woods with
my dog and do absolutely. I try to like get out
of cell phone range. Like I try to like put my
cell phone in the microwave and just go somewhere
where like, dude, I just, whether it's fishing,
whether it's, you know. Going up having breakfast
with Pat and his family in the morning and just,
you know, with my girlfriend and his family,
it's just like one of those things that go out
and explore new cuisines. And I just like to
do a number of things kind of like just roll
through it to find, to laugh, to cry. You know,
it's one of those things that you just got to
be in touch with yourself to know, hey. it's
okay to break down once in a while and, and,
and have that moment. And, you know, you're not
a pussy for it. It's just a matter of like, dude,
you know, watching a rom -com or watching some
sport movie that you can resonate with. Like,
Oh man, that's a tearjerker. That's fuck. All
right. You know, I can see, look at the good
in humanity, you know? So it's like, you know,
for me, it's just a matter of trying to whatever
way I can unplug and not, and just try to focus
on myself, which is. a daunting task at times
I think, but, um, I, uh, yeah, that's, that's
pretty much it, man. Just travel and being around
people that you care about and that you love,
you know, surround yourself with, with quality,
high quality people for high quality outcomes.
Otherwise, you know, you're, you're square peg
round hole. If it's not working, you're not going
anywhere with it. Fuck you doing with it. Get
rid of it. it's funny about the the stigma with
crying like i've got go -to songs and films if
i need to get some shit out that i'll put on
but you think about you know obviously war But
you think about sports, you know, whether they
won, whether they lost, you know, the raw emotion
that comes out then. But yet there's this bullshit
facade like men don't cry, which I would argue
came from the John Waynes and Schwarzeneggers
who had never actually served in their life.
You know, they're actors that, you know, and
no disrespect to them, but they are not manly
men at all. They are. portraying manly men in
a terrible way so you know and we bought into
that our generation totally bought into that
kind of Hollywood facade of masculinity versus
that you know you look at the real men of Easy
Company talking on Band of Brothers they're in
tears numerous times relaying that and that was
70 plus years before so that's what a man is
yeah I mean those dudes were built different
too like that's a whole other fucking breed that
was just like because I mean when I went to Normandy
I was just like you did what like just thinking
back of all like the movies that you've watched
you're just like fuck that like no thank you
yeah no gps no no you know overwatch none of
that doors open go in and germans the fortified
bunkers like to see the bunkers to like that's
one of the things that one of my one of my favorite
trips was being able to to go to normandy and
look at some of the world like world war ii and
then world war one when i went to bellwood um
Or it was just like, it's unbelievable what these
men had gone through to, to get us to the point
of where we are today and to see the types of
infrastructure, see how fast it was built, to
see all the engineering that went into it. And
you're just like, wait, we just, just bodies
and droves just came into swarm and overwhelm.
And, and to get us to this point, it's just,
it's, it's remarkable to just the tenacity of,
of who we are as humans to, to overcome that
for a belief and just, yeah, a moral. Yeah. So
it's just like, wow. It's interesting because
I've had so many conversations now and either
if it's an older guest, dad, but more often granddad.
was in the war and we romanticize about that
generation what they did was incredible but we
romanticize and then they just came back and
they rolled up their sleeves and they went to
work and no they were a fucking mess listen to
what granddad was actually like that absolutely
took a toll and that environment they weren't
able to talk about it like we do today so we
owe it to that generation to heal ourselves because
i was just having a conversation with someone
right before you and i sat down what i see now
in a lot of the things that are wrong with our
society, is broken people at the helm of whether
it's a presidential seat that they're occupying,
whether it's the head of Purdue Pharma or William
Morris Tobacco, where their decisions are costing,
in some cases, hundreds of thousands of American
lives, and they sleep like a baby at night. So
left unaddressed, the trauma from World War II
and beyond is still rippling today. And so if
we really want to honor the men and women of
the World War II generation, we bind back together
and we start healing our communities. Because
I see the opposite as a real kind of push. And
that's such a spit in the face for the men and
women that fought for the liberty in the first
place. Yep. Yeah, it's wild, man. If you've not
been to Normandy, I recommend it. And any of
the viewers who haven't, go. It's a vibe. to
witness that and to and to just see the remnants
of what it was it's just like it's it puts a
whole new like it's like life's not that bad
right now you know with with all that's happening
with all they're finding right now with you know
not having to get too political but it's just
it's astounding to see like it's gone that long
for this country to be this much in debt and
all this fucking chaos of you know what so yeah
yeah I think, again, if we refine that community
that they had back then, where it was truly a
selfless service mentality, I think we truly
could make America great again. But it's not
going to be from a politician. I tell you that
right now. It's going to be from us. Yeah. No,
absolutely. As a community, being able to bind
together and understand that there's a better
alternative way to see things done. look at the
numbers based on suicide deaths for first responders
and how that gets reported. How many reports
have you been kicked back with over the years
where, oh, this is off, this is wrong, this is
wrong, but okay, let's go find out how many firefighters
just killed themselves. What are the reports
and statistical values for us to be able to look
at in real time, not wait four years later to
then be like, oh, maybe we got to do something
about it. It's like, okay. How about after year
one, we come to the table and look at it. Okay,
here's where we need to change. These are the
different programs that we can explore and look
at. Even just having a dog in the fire station
after a significant event might be able to do
something. It doesn't cost anybody anything other
than the fucking dog and whoever's handler is
to bring it in. So it's like even just changing
up one thing, but dude, some of these guys are
just stuck and they're in their own way of actually
making real changes. because they don't want
to piss off the mayor or they like, it's whatever.
Yeah. It's a cycle. Yeah. It's going to change
though. It is. I mean, I think firstly, the work
week conversation is, is a revolution that's
begun. Um, the thing that I'm working on this
show, I hope will, you know, put our story front
and center in every living room and cell phone.
in the states at least if not internationally
and then people are going to ask a lot of questions
wait a second i thought that you know the firefighting
you know it was easy and they just sat around
and you know dalmatian and and people are going
to realize it's not the case and then hopefully
like i said that hope conversation too like if
you know whoever's out there whatever level of
struggle you're at that there are solutions and
here they are. So, yeah. But I mean, everyone
that's part of this puzzle is doing this for
the right reason, not for their own career, you
know, or personal gain. I think that's going
to be the next renaissance, the renaissance of
kindness and compassion. As I see the fractured,
you know, the Jenga blocks starting to wobble
in this whole self -serving monopoly, you know,
I'm the most important person in the world. bullshit
that to me is the opposite of what we just said
that the world war ii generation so i'm looking
forward to seeing kindness and compassion you
finally win again yeah yeah it's gonna be nice
all right well then just for everyone to reiterate
where are the best places to find the non -profit
and also if they want to reach out to you personally
yeah best place to find us is warriorschoice
.org or you can find us on social media at Warriors
Choice Foundation or at Choice Warriors between
X and between Facebook. And then personally,
if you want to reach out to me, a .longo at warriorschoice
.org is probably the best way to get in touch
with me. I generally don't answer numbers that
I don't know. So if anything. Shoot me an email.
I'm pretty responsive at that point. Now I'm
stuck on a computer most days, so I don't really
get to do the fun shit anymore. Now it's more
management, delegation, all that other stuff.
But yeah, reach out to me anytime. Anybody who's
struggling, just go to our website, put in an
app, put in a request, and we'll be in touch.
We have a phone number there. We're actually
going to be relaunching the website. So there'll
be more ways of being able to find resources
and get plugged into where you got to get plugged
into. Beautiful. Well, I want to say thank you,
firstly, for your vulnerable, courageous storytelling
and being vulnerable yourself. And then like
so many people, having served and worn multiple
uniforms, still wanting to continue to serve.
I think even in the transition conversation,
the people who ultimately do well, I think, realize
that you were always a selfless servant, that
you always wanted to help people. And the military
costume or the fire costume was just that. It
was a costume. It was clothing that you wore
at that period. But now, you know, so many people
that leave, you know, the first responder professions
or the military and they end up doing what you're
doing, that they still serve in whatever capacity.
So I want to thank you so much for everything
that you're doing for our community and the military
community. And also for being so generous with
your time and coming on the Behind the Shield
podcast today. I appreciate it. Thanks for having
me on. Thank you. Thanks, Pat.