WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.759 Welcome, guys, to episode 227 of Behind the Shield 00:00:02.759 --> 00:00:05.139 podcast. My name's James Gearing, and I'm so 00:00:05.139 --> 00:00:07.639 excited to bring to you this week Dr. Michael 00:00:07.639 --> 00:00:11.339 Greger. Dr. Greger is the founder of nutritionfacts 00:00:11.339 --> 00:00:14.160 .org. He is the author of the best -selling book, 00:00:14.300 --> 00:00:17.800 How Not to Die. And most importantly to me, he 00:00:17.800 --> 00:00:20.699 has put a huge amount of free content out there 00:00:20.699 --> 00:00:23.719 to educate people on the healing and disease 00:00:23.719 --> 00:00:26.440 -reversing properties of a plant -based diet. 00:00:27.199 --> 00:00:29.739 So a really powerful conversation. You'll notice 00:00:29.739 --> 00:00:31.719 it's a very short conversation compared to some 00:00:31.719 --> 00:00:34.600 of my interviews, but I use a kind of rapid -fire 00:00:34.600 --> 00:00:37.399 questioning to try and draw out as much as I 00:00:37.399 --> 00:00:39.719 could, especially regarding heart disease and 00:00:39.719 --> 00:00:42.700 cancer and some of these supposedly incurable 00:00:42.700 --> 00:00:46.219 diseases to really illustrate how powerful a 00:00:46.219 --> 00:00:48.899 plant -based diet can be. So as I always say 00:00:48.899 --> 00:00:51.500 before we start the interview, please go to iTunes, 00:00:51.979 --> 00:00:54.119 Stitcher, whichever one you use to listen to 00:00:54.119 --> 00:00:56.520 this podcast. And just take a moment to subscribe, 00:00:56.899 --> 00:00:59.399 leave feedback and a rating. Every rating that 00:00:59.399 --> 00:01:02.439 we get on iTunes or in those apps make us more 00:01:02.439 --> 00:01:04.680 visible to everyone else who's looking for this 00:01:04.680 --> 00:01:07.319 project. And then most importantly, take your 00:01:07.319 --> 00:01:09.840 social media, use it for good and share these 00:01:09.840 --> 00:01:12.239 incredible podcasts. Every single one of these 00:01:12.239 --> 00:01:14.200 men and women that's taken their time to tell 00:01:14.200 --> 00:01:17.040 their story has so much information and content 00:01:17.040 --> 00:01:18.980 that I know will benefit so many people that 00:01:18.980 --> 00:01:21.700 need to hear it. So with that being said, I introduce 00:01:21.700 --> 00:01:43.719 to you Dr. Michael Greger. Enjoy. Dr. Greger, 00:01:43.739 --> 00:01:45.519 I want to start by saying welcome to the podcast 00:01:45.519 --> 00:01:48.719 and thank you so much for taking the time. Happy 00:01:48.719 --> 00:01:51.500 to help out. Let's do it. All right. So very 00:01:51.500 --> 00:01:53.140 first question, where are we finding you on planet 00:01:53.140 --> 00:01:57.000 Earth today? I am coming to you live from my 00:01:57.000 --> 00:02:00.680 treadmill in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Excellent. 00:02:00.819 --> 00:02:03.170 I love that. All right. So because we've got 00:02:03.170 --> 00:02:05.430 30 minutes, I really want to kind of skip some 00:02:05.430 --> 00:02:06.989 of the icebreakers and really get to the meat 00:02:06.989 --> 00:02:09.250 and potatoes. But I think a great, interesting 00:02:09.250 --> 00:02:12.090 story that really kind of starts everything is 00:02:12.090 --> 00:02:14.750 your grandmother's illness. So if you wouldn't 00:02:14.750 --> 00:02:17.090 mind just talking about that and how that influenced 00:02:17.090 --> 00:02:19.909 not only her health, but then your introduction 00:02:19.909 --> 00:02:23.270 to medicine. Sure. Straight to the kale and potatoes. 00:02:23.430 --> 00:02:30.300 I was just a kid. when the doctor sent my grandma 00:02:30.300 --> 00:02:33.860 home in a wheelchair to die. She was diagnosed 00:02:33.860 --> 00:02:35.759 with end -stage heart disease, already had so 00:02:35.759 --> 00:02:38.520 many bypass surgeries, basically run out of plumbing 00:02:38.520 --> 00:02:41.280 at some point. So confined to a wheelchair, crushing 00:02:41.280 --> 00:02:45.520 chest pain. Her life was over at age 65. Let's 00:02:45.520 --> 00:02:47.539 hear about this guy, Nathan Pritikin, one of 00:02:47.539 --> 00:02:49.400 our early lifestyle medicine pioneers. What happened 00:02:49.400 --> 00:02:52.659 next is actually detailed in Pritikin's biography. 00:02:52.840 --> 00:02:55.000 He talks about Francis Gregor, my grandmother. 00:02:55.680 --> 00:03:00.300 They wheeled her in, and she walked out. She 00:03:00.300 --> 00:03:02.259 was given a medical death sentence at age 65, 00:03:02.259 --> 00:03:05.020 but thanks to a healthy diet, went on to live 00:03:05.020 --> 00:03:09.979 another 31 years until age 96. Continue to enjoy 00:03:09.979 --> 00:03:12.300 your six grandkids, including me. That's why 00:03:12.300 --> 00:03:16.580 I went into medicine. That's why I started NutritionFacts 00:03:16.580 --> 00:03:18.479 .org, why I wrote the book How Not to Die, why 00:03:18.479 --> 00:03:20.740 100 % of the proceeds I get from my books are 00:03:20.740 --> 00:03:23.319 all donated to charity. I just want to do for 00:03:23.319 --> 00:03:26.120 everyone's family what Pritikin did for my family. 00:03:26.409 --> 00:03:27.710 Brilliant. And that's the one point I really 00:03:27.710 --> 00:03:29.569 want to start with as well. So you're not out 00:03:29.569 --> 00:03:31.590 there, you know, making a fortune on all these 00:03:31.590 --> 00:03:34.229 different DVD sets and books, kind of like this 00:03:34.229 --> 00:03:36.530 podcast too, because I do this for free for everyone 00:03:36.530 --> 00:03:38.169 listening as well. There's no real attachment 00:03:38.169 --> 00:03:40.550 to any money whatsoever. I'm just a fireman trying 00:03:40.550 --> 00:03:43.469 to be part of the solution. But I think that's 00:03:43.469 --> 00:03:45.289 a very powerful point that you have all these 00:03:45.289 --> 00:03:47.610 books and you're just trying to educate people. 00:03:47.789 --> 00:03:51.069 So there is no ulterior motive that usually to 00:03:51.069 --> 00:03:53.389 me shows someone who's driving from a very pure 00:03:53.389 --> 00:03:58.210 place. Well, that's why all doctors should have 00:03:58.210 --> 00:04:00.069 gone to medicine. I mean, I think generally, 00:04:00.349 --> 00:04:03.069 you know, people go into the healthcare field. 00:04:03.169 --> 00:04:04.650 You know, look, they wanted to just make money. 00:04:04.710 --> 00:04:06.229 They would go to a stock market or something. 00:04:06.349 --> 00:04:07.550 But people go into the healthcare field because 00:04:07.550 --> 00:04:09.030 they want to take care of people. Now, often 00:04:09.030 --> 00:04:11.830 that is kind of beaten out of them through medical 00:04:11.830 --> 00:04:15.229 education or training. And they may end up kind 00:04:15.229 --> 00:04:17.990 of demanding reparations and, you know, getting 00:04:17.990 --> 00:04:20.170 their first BMW or something. But, I mean, I 00:04:20.170 --> 00:04:22.170 think, you know, when you talk to medical students, 00:04:22.250 --> 00:04:24.430 for example, there's a real kind of... youthful 00:04:24.430 --> 00:04:27.089 idealism that draws people in as long as they 00:04:27.089 --> 00:04:29.970 can hold on to that um i think they can do wonderful 00:04:29.970 --> 00:04:32.350 things in the world absolutely now that's something 00:04:32.350 --> 00:04:34.490 that i've seen again i'm not i'm a layman i do 00:04:34.490 --> 00:04:36.370 have a degree in exercise physiology that's as 00:04:36.370 --> 00:04:39.149 far as my training goes aside from being a paramedic 00:04:39.149 --> 00:04:43.269 but all those kind of angles and views have showed 00:04:43.269 --> 00:04:46.649 me now at age of 45 that yes the way that we 00:04:46.649 --> 00:04:49.899 do many of our chronic disease management techniques 00:04:49.899 --> 00:04:52.399 and the way that we're eating are categorically 00:04:52.399 --> 00:04:55.319 hands down killing our people. So what was it 00:04:55.319 --> 00:04:57.959 that on your road through medicine really made 00:04:57.959 --> 00:04:59.600 you realize, apart from your grandmother's story, 00:04:59.660 --> 00:05:04.519 of course, the sleep and the nutrition side was 00:05:04.519 --> 00:05:06.500 going to be so much more powerful than a lot 00:05:06.500 --> 00:05:09.300 of what the textbooks were teaching you? Well, 00:05:09.420 --> 00:05:11.920 you know, so yeah, the reversal of our end stage 00:05:11.920 --> 00:05:14.240 heart disease with this kind of plant based diet 00:05:14.240 --> 00:05:15.959 and lifestyle program is really what inspired 00:05:15.959 --> 00:05:18.240 me to go to med school. But once I got there, 00:05:18.839 --> 00:05:21.579 I was shocked to find out this whole body of 00:05:21.579 --> 00:05:23.800 evidence on reversing chronic disease with lifestyle 00:05:23.800 --> 00:05:25.439 changes, you know, opening up arteries without 00:05:25.439 --> 00:05:27.800 drugs, without surgery, was, you know, largely 00:05:27.800 --> 00:05:30.279 ignored by mainstream medicine. So I figured, 00:05:30.360 --> 00:05:32.579 wait, what are you saying? If the cure to a number 00:05:32.579 --> 00:05:34.459 one killer could get lost down some rabbit hole 00:05:34.459 --> 00:05:36.240 and ignored, you know, what else might there 00:05:36.240 --> 00:05:38.139 be buried in the medical literature that could 00:05:38.139 --> 00:05:40.920 help my patients? Well, I made it my life's mission 00:05:40.920 --> 00:05:43.300 to find out. So that's what led me to start the 00:05:43.300 --> 00:05:47.220 website. And so it's basically, I mean, so there's 00:05:47.220 --> 00:05:49.160 basically this mountain of evidence it already 00:05:49.160 --> 00:05:51.259 exists there's just no corporate budget driving 00:05:51.259 --> 00:05:53.399 its promotion you know some new study on broccoli 00:05:53.399 --> 00:05:55.839 comes out there's no press release there's no 00:05:55.839 --> 00:05:58.779 like you know ads on tv or there's no i mean 00:05:58.779 --> 00:06:02.040 there's just it just you know just exists and 00:06:02.040 --> 00:06:04.720 it's just a matter of me you know digging through 00:06:04.720 --> 00:06:07.759 the stacks and uh and you know bringing out what 00:06:07.759 --> 00:06:11.579 we already know uh to the public right so i really 00:06:11.579 --> 00:06:14.379 want to delve into your mind now and really explore 00:06:14.379 --> 00:06:18.870 the world of food um so As an overall diet here 00:06:18.870 --> 00:06:21.290 in America, in England where I'm from originally 00:06:21.290 --> 00:06:23.089 and all the associated countries that eat the 00:06:23.089 --> 00:06:25.990 way we do, what are the main culprits causing 00:06:25.990 --> 00:06:30.370 the ill health in the first place? Well, so if 00:06:30.370 --> 00:06:32.310 you look at the Goldberg Disease Study, for example, 00:06:32.310 --> 00:06:34.269 the largest study of disease risk factors in 00:06:34.269 --> 00:06:35.870 history funded by the Bill and Melinda Gates 00:06:35.870 --> 00:06:42.079 Foundation, the number one – dietary cause of 00:06:42.079 --> 00:06:44.019 death so the number one cause of death is diet 00:06:44.019 --> 00:06:48.339 um um smoking is has been bumped to number two 00:06:48.339 --> 00:06:54.160 uh and uh so uh so and what about our diet is 00:06:54.160 --> 00:06:56.319 the worst well the five worst things they've 00:06:56.319 --> 00:07:00.279 identified is number one is too much sodium uh 00:07:00.279 --> 00:07:02.319 so i encourage people to stick to the american 00:07:02.319 --> 00:07:04.500 heart association's recommendation of 1500 milligrams 00:07:04.500 --> 00:07:07.810 of sodium a day which is basically eliminates 00:07:07.810 --> 00:07:10.350 processed food from one's diet. So that's the 00:07:10.350 --> 00:07:12.389 number one dietary risk factor for death on planet 00:07:12.389 --> 00:07:14.829 Earth. And the other four is inadequate whole 00:07:14.829 --> 00:07:17.329 grain consumption, inadequate vegetable consumption, 00:07:17.589 --> 00:07:20.189 inadequate fruit consumption, and inadequate 00:07:20.189 --> 00:07:22.170 nut and seed consumption. So it's interesting 00:07:22.170 --> 00:07:24.970 that four out of the five is not something we 00:07:24.970 --> 00:07:26.670 eat too much of, but actually something we're 00:07:26.670 --> 00:07:28.449 not eating enough of, and that are these whole 00:07:28.449 --> 00:07:31.199 plant foods. Yeah, that's an observation that 00:07:31.199 --> 00:07:33.540 I've made is that, you know, we are overfed and 00:07:33.540 --> 00:07:35.800 malnourished, which is a crazy contradiction 00:07:35.800 --> 00:07:38.680 of terms. Right. I mean, so, yeah, we have a 00:07:38.680 --> 00:07:41.879 billion people that are that are, you know, overweight. 00:07:42.019 --> 00:07:44.500 We have a billion people who are not getting, 00:07:44.660 --> 00:07:46.720 you know, who are food insecure. I mean, it's 00:07:46.720 --> 00:07:49.319 really kind of a strange world we live in. But 00:07:49.319 --> 00:07:53.180 it's a matter of, you know, I mean, but the science 00:07:53.180 --> 00:07:55.480 is clear what we need to eat. We just need to 00:07:55.480 --> 00:07:58.519 be able to, you know, make it happen in our day 00:07:58.519 --> 00:08:01.959 to day lives. With the world of meat, I know 00:08:01.959 --> 00:08:04.319 obviously now finally the processed meats are 00:08:04.319 --> 00:08:05.920 getting some attention, all the chemicals that 00:08:05.920 --> 00:08:08.959 are throwing in those. When it comes to the people 00:08:08.959 --> 00:08:12.639 that advise occasional meat and it's grass -fed 00:08:12.639 --> 00:08:15.279 and the most natural way that we can raise our 00:08:15.279 --> 00:08:18.319 food, what is your perspective on a little meat 00:08:18.319 --> 00:08:21.550 in a plant -based diet? Oh, well, look, it doesn't 00:08:21.550 --> 00:08:23.089 matter what you eat on your birthdays, your holiday 00:08:23.089 --> 00:08:24.970 special occasions. It's the day -to -day stuff 00:08:24.970 --> 00:08:27.449 that really adds up. And on a day -to -day basis, 00:08:27.569 --> 00:08:34.910 we really should indeed try to eat healthy. And 00:08:34.910 --> 00:08:37.870 so, look, there are some meats that are less 00:08:37.870 --> 00:08:41.690 harmful than others, absolutely. So there's a 00:08:41.690 --> 00:08:43.870 famous study out of Australia, for example, found 00:08:43.870 --> 00:08:46.990 that eating wild game, which is kangaroo in their 00:08:46.990 --> 00:08:52.409 case, had led to significantly less bump in inflammation 00:08:52.409 --> 00:08:55.070 compared to conventionally store -bought meat. 00:08:55.830 --> 00:08:58.789 And so better, but certainly one could argue, 00:08:58.789 --> 00:09:00.769 you know, why eat pro -inflammatory foods at 00:09:00.769 --> 00:09:02.190 all? Why not eat foods that actually have an 00:09:02.190 --> 00:09:03.950 anti -inflammatory effect like most whole plant 00:09:03.950 --> 00:09:06.769 foods? So better, absolutely, step in the right 00:09:06.769 --> 00:09:10.690 direction, sure. And, you know, by eating higher 00:09:10.690 --> 00:09:12.450 quality meats, presumably they're more expensive, 00:09:12.570 --> 00:09:14.950 so you're eating less of them. So I think that's 00:09:14.950 --> 00:09:20.470 a real advantage. But, you know, I mean, ideally, 00:09:20.549 --> 00:09:22.529 the more kind of whole plant foods we can stuff 00:09:22.529 --> 00:09:24.950 into our diet, the better. Right. And then the 00:09:24.950 --> 00:09:28.669 argument a lot of times is the evolution. We 00:09:28.669 --> 00:09:32.710 have canines. We're omnivores. What is your view 00:09:32.710 --> 00:09:39.809 on the diet of homo sapiens and the influence 00:09:39.809 --> 00:09:44.470 of meat within that journey? Oh, so, yeah. So, 00:09:44.549 --> 00:09:48.990 you know, I think it's useful to look back and 00:09:48.990 --> 00:09:52.960 say, what is our biology designed to eat? Um, 00:09:53.159 --> 00:09:55.740 and so, but it's interesting. So the kind of 00:09:55.740 --> 00:09:58.000 the, the paleo diet advocates go back about 2 00:09:58.000 --> 00:09:59.700 million years when we started into the paleolithic 00:09:59.700 --> 00:10:03.480 period and we started using tools. Um, but you 00:10:03.480 --> 00:10:05.539 know, we kind of split off from the last, uh, 00:10:05.580 --> 00:10:08.100 great ape ancestor back in the Miocene era, about 00:10:08.100 --> 00:10:10.940 20 million years ago. So for the first 90 % of 00:10:10.940 --> 00:10:14.259 our evolution, um, before we started, you know, 00:10:14.279 --> 00:10:16.639 we started to sharpening spears and certainly 00:10:16.639 --> 00:10:20.220 boiling sugar cane or refining grains. um 90 00:10:20.220 --> 00:10:22.980 of our evolution where all our digestive system 00:10:22.980 --> 00:10:27.559 all our enzymes um put together was in the context 00:10:27.559 --> 00:10:29.519 of even what the rest of our great ape cousins 00:10:29.519 --> 00:10:31.639 eat which is almost exclusively plant -based 00:10:31.639 --> 00:10:34.539 diet In fact, we even lost the ability to make 00:10:34.539 --> 00:10:36.659 vitamin C. Most animals actually just make vitamin 00:10:36.659 --> 00:10:38.600 C from scratch. We have the genes to do it, but 00:10:38.600 --> 00:10:40.539 they were junked basically by our body because, 00:10:40.600 --> 00:10:42.320 look, all we're doing is eating leaves and fruits 00:10:42.320 --> 00:10:44.740 all day. We're getting all the vitamin C we need. 00:10:44.799 --> 00:10:46.659 So we, guinea pigs, fruit bats, and a couple 00:10:46.659 --> 00:10:48.700 other species just lost the ability to make vitamin 00:10:48.700 --> 00:10:51.799 C. Why even care? Of course, now you can get 00:10:51.799 --> 00:10:54.039 scurvy, but, you know, this was, you know, we 00:10:54.039 --> 00:10:57.240 weren't. That was not a problem in kind of our 00:10:57.240 --> 00:11:00.120 natural setting. So I do encourage people to 00:11:00.120 --> 00:11:04.120 go back to our roots, no pun intended, by eating 00:11:04.120 --> 00:11:06.799 the way our biology was designed. But instead 00:11:06.799 --> 00:11:09.379 of just looking at the last 10%, really looking 00:11:09.379 --> 00:11:12.600 at the foundational 90 % of our evolution, which 00:11:12.600 --> 00:11:14.000 has really evolved around whole plant foods. 00:11:14.320 --> 00:11:16.019 Yeah, and that makes perfect sense. I mean, if 00:11:16.019 --> 00:11:17.860 we were hunter -gatherers, obviously the gathering 00:11:17.860 --> 00:11:19.440 is a lot easier than the hunting. And without 00:11:19.440 --> 00:11:21.919 weapons, if you go far enough back, we would 00:11:21.919 --> 00:11:23.820 be pretty crap at catching fish and chasing. 00:11:24.360 --> 00:11:27.559 most animals. Right. And it's all about, I mean, 00:11:27.620 --> 00:11:29.480 you know, you obviously have to get more calories 00:11:29.480 --> 00:11:32.980 in than you burn. And so, you know, that's why 00:11:32.980 --> 00:11:36.379 we developed this taste for, you know, fat, starch, 00:11:36.440 --> 00:11:38.100 sugar, because that's where the calories are. 00:11:38.879 --> 00:11:41.179 Um, and of course we evolved in the context of 00:11:41.179 --> 00:11:42.919 there wasn't enough, there weren't salt shakers 00:11:42.919 --> 00:11:45.899 around. So we have this lust for, you know, calorie 00:11:45.899 --> 00:11:49.200 dense foods, for sweet, starchy, fatty, salty 00:11:49.200 --> 00:11:51.320 foods. And so what the processed food industry 00:11:51.320 --> 00:11:54.419 has taken those natural biological, has hijacked 00:11:54.419 --> 00:11:56.220 those natural biological drives, turned them 00:11:56.220 --> 00:11:58.740 against us to make these hyper salty, hyper fatty, 00:11:58.820 --> 00:12:01.480 hyper sweet foods that basically, you know, can, 00:12:01.620 --> 00:12:03.899 can, you know, force us to just not eat one. 00:12:04.080 --> 00:12:07.139 Um, and has led, uh, helped lead to this, you 00:12:07.139 --> 00:12:11.330 know, epidemic. of obesity and type 2 diabetes 00:12:11.330 --> 00:12:17.169 and something we're fighting with. A big part 00:12:17.169 --> 00:12:20.730 of that is the industry, which has created this 00:12:20.730 --> 00:12:24.360 kind of bliss point. where people just have these 00:12:24.360 --> 00:12:29.240 almost like addictive relationships with some 00:12:29.240 --> 00:12:32.120 of these processed foods. And ideally, we should 00:12:32.120 --> 00:12:37.679 eat instead foods as grown and stay away particularly 00:12:37.679 --> 00:12:40.700 from these ultra -processed foods. which are 00:12:40.700 --> 00:12:43.700 very profitable but unfortunately may lead to 00:12:43.700 --> 00:12:47.120 good shelf life but not good human life. Absolutely. 00:12:47.279 --> 00:12:48.860 All right. Well, one area that I really want 00:12:48.860 --> 00:12:52.639 to explore with you is cancer. As well as the 00:12:52.639 --> 00:12:55.480 obesity, we're seeing a huge increase in what 00:12:55.480 --> 00:12:58.399 it seems to be at least in… Cancer, not only 00:12:58.399 --> 00:13:00.720 pediatric cancer, but obviously all the ones 00:13:00.720 --> 00:13:03.059 in the adults, many of which through my layman 00:13:03.059 --> 00:13:05.980 eyes appear to be also influenced through diet 00:13:05.980 --> 00:13:10.440 and the environment. So what is your perspective 00:13:10.440 --> 00:13:15.039 on the cancer causing agents and are they predominantly 00:13:15.039 --> 00:13:20.720 from our diet? So, well, actually, the obesity 00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:27.639 epidemic may indeed be part of. of the rising 00:13:27.639 --> 00:13:31.639 cancer rates. So right now, the lifelong cancer 00:13:31.639 --> 00:13:33.960 risk for men and women is about 40%, about a 00:13:33.960 --> 00:13:35.879 40 % chance. And this, we're talking about invasive 00:13:35.879 --> 00:13:39.039 cancers, about a 40 % chance any of us will get 00:13:39.039 --> 00:13:40.820 an invasive cancer at some time of their life. 00:13:40.879 --> 00:13:41.980 So we're not talking about something like a little 00:13:41.980 --> 00:13:47.279 skin cancer that you just kind of cut off. And 00:13:47.279 --> 00:13:54.250 so, and part of that... is because of the obesity 00:13:54.250 --> 00:13:55.769 epidemic. You know, if you survey people, about 00:13:55.769 --> 00:13:57.129 three -quarters of people are evidently unaware 00:13:57.129 --> 00:14:00.250 of the link between obesity and cancer. But if 00:14:00.250 --> 00:14:01.870 you look at, there's a comprehensive review of 00:14:01.870 --> 00:14:03.610 more than a thousand studies, excess body fat 00:14:03.610 --> 00:14:06.289 increases risk of most cancers, including esophageal 00:14:06.289 --> 00:14:08.870 cancer, stomach cancer, colorectal cancer, liver, 00:14:08.990 --> 00:14:11.149 gallbladder, pancreatic, breast, uterine, ovarian, 00:14:11.169 --> 00:14:14.940 kidney, brain, thyroid, bone marrow cancer. And 00:14:14.940 --> 00:14:16.440 so we think it's actually because of the chronic 00:14:16.440 --> 00:14:18.419 inflammation associated with obesity or the high 00:14:18.419 --> 00:14:20.840 insulin levels thanks to insulin resistance. 00:14:21.279 --> 00:14:24.799 In women, it could be the excess estrogen. You 00:14:24.799 --> 00:14:28.139 know, at menopause, you know, women's ovaries 00:14:28.139 --> 00:14:30.679 shut down. And so fat actually takes over as 00:14:30.679 --> 00:14:32.379 the principal site of estrogen production. That's 00:14:32.379 --> 00:14:34.019 why obese women have about twice the estrogen 00:14:34.019 --> 00:14:36.120 levels, you know, circulating in their bloodstream, 00:14:36.240 --> 00:14:38.220 which may increase your risk of developing and 00:14:38.220 --> 00:14:45.190 dying from breast cancer. And we know this is 00:14:45.190 --> 00:14:48.529 not just kind of... We know this is cause and 00:14:48.529 --> 00:14:53.029 effect because if you, for example, follow people 00:14:53.029 --> 00:14:55.230 that have gotten gastric bypass surgery, for 00:14:55.230 --> 00:14:58.610 example, you can see significant drops in cancer 00:14:58.610 --> 00:15:01.429 risk, losing a significant amount of body weight. 00:15:01.549 --> 00:15:04.629 So, I mean, that certainly is one way. Diet plays 00:15:04.629 --> 00:15:08.169 into it. Alcohol certainly increases even light 00:15:08.169 --> 00:15:10.110 drinking. For example, one, two glasses a day 00:15:10.110 --> 00:15:14.730 of wine may increase breast cancer risk. You 00:15:14.730 --> 00:15:18.470 know, processed meat consumption, group one carcinogens, 00:15:18.490 --> 00:15:20.389 so bacon, ham, hot dogs, lunch meat, sausage. 00:15:20.850 --> 00:15:24.269 We now know that we are as sure that they cause 00:15:24.269 --> 00:15:26.610 cancer as asbestos cause cancer and cigarette 00:15:26.610 --> 00:15:28.730 smoke and plutonium. They're group one carcinogens, 00:15:28.809 --> 00:15:30.789 according to the IARC, the official kind of World 00:15:30.789 --> 00:15:32.470 Health Organization body that determines what 00:15:32.470 --> 00:15:35.409 is and is not cancer causing. And so, look, you 00:15:35.409 --> 00:15:37.490 know, we try to not to smoke around our kids. 00:15:37.570 --> 00:15:39.389 Why would we send them to school with a bologna 00:15:39.389 --> 00:15:41.509 sandwich? And we know these foods cause cancer. 00:15:42.679 --> 00:15:45.679 This is something I brought up to the Dietary 00:15:45.679 --> 00:15:48.659 Guidelines Committee meeting a few weeks ago. 00:15:49.340 --> 00:15:52.039 It's just outrageous that people don't know about 00:15:52.039 --> 00:15:54.899 this. Absolutely. Now, on the flip side, so people 00:15:54.899 --> 00:15:57.080 that have already discovered that they have cancer, 00:15:57.139 --> 00:16:00.419 you have places where you can treat cancer purely 00:16:00.419 --> 00:16:02.840 with nutrition in Portugal, in Mexico, and sadly, 00:16:02.879 --> 00:16:05.299 they are always far forced outside of the UK 00:16:05.299 --> 00:16:10.820 and the US. Have you in your career seen a great 00:16:10.820 --> 00:16:13.919 success with people not doing chemo and radiation 00:16:13.919 --> 00:16:16.700 but actually trying everything they can to put 00:16:16.700 --> 00:16:19.779 their body back in homeostasis instead? Well, 00:16:19.799 --> 00:16:23.019 I mean that's the beautiful thing about lifestyle 00:16:23.019 --> 00:16:25.779 interventions like diet is that they can be done 00:16:25.779 --> 00:16:29.139 in conjunction with whatever else. Your doctor 00:16:29.139 --> 00:16:31.320 wants you to do radiation, chemotherapy, both, 00:16:31.519 --> 00:16:34.950 surgery, anything. Whatever you and your doctor 00:16:34.950 --> 00:16:38.269 choose. On top of that, you can also eat healthfully 00:16:38.269 --> 00:16:41.909 to maximize your body's ability to fight off 00:16:41.909 --> 00:16:45.769 the cancer, to withstand the... the sometimes 00:16:45.769 --> 00:16:47.629 devastating effects of some of the treatments 00:16:47.629 --> 00:16:50.409 that we have for it. And so it's not either or. 00:16:51.549 --> 00:16:54.629 And, you know, depending on the cancer, one may 00:16:54.629 --> 00:16:59.549 choose a, you know, a multiple, multi -pronged 00:16:59.549 --> 00:17:02.429 strategy to attack it. But regardless of what 00:17:02.429 --> 00:17:04.849 you choose, you can always eat healthier. Now, 00:17:04.849 --> 00:17:07.029 what Ornish showed, Dr. Dean Ornish, after he 00:17:07.029 --> 00:17:10.390 conquered our number one killer, heart disease 00:17:10.390 --> 00:17:15.250 with his lifestyle heart trial. in 1990, he moved 00:17:15.250 --> 00:17:17.690 on to killer number two, cancer. And he took 00:17:17.690 --> 00:17:20.450 the same diet, this plant -based diet, and took 00:17:20.450 --> 00:17:22.529 a group of men with early -stage prostate cancer, 00:17:22.589 --> 00:17:25.990 randomized them, half of them to that plant -based 00:17:25.990 --> 00:17:27.910 diet, and for the first time was able to show 00:17:27.910 --> 00:17:30.250 in a randomized controlled trial a reversal of 00:17:30.250 --> 00:17:32.150 the progression of cancer. The PSA levels actually 00:17:32.150 --> 00:17:34.049 dropped compared to the control group that continued 00:17:34.049 --> 00:17:35.809 to increase, suggesting a shrinkage of their 00:17:35.809 --> 00:17:39.299 tumors. I mean you can take blood from – they 00:17:39.299 --> 00:17:41.039 took blood from people eating plant -based diet 00:17:41.039 --> 00:17:47.519 and showed that they're 70 % more better at killing 00:17:47.519 --> 00:17:49.940 off cancer cells than a petri dish. We think 00:17:49.940 --> 00:17:52.099 that's a down regulation of IGF -1, which is 00:17:52.099 --> 00:17:54.819 a growth hormone, which is associated with increased 00:17:54.819 --> 00:17:58.400 cancer growth. There's all sorts of ways in which 00:17:58.400 --> 00:18:02.579 eating healthier can boost your body's ability 00:18:02.579 --> 00:18:04.900 to fight off cancer, increasing the natural killer 00:18:04.900 --> 00:18:11.359 cell activity. kind of front lines for so -called 00:18:11.359 --> 00:18:13.500 immunosurveillance or cancer surveillance of 00:18:13.500 --> 00:18:17.779 our immune system. There are case reports of 00:18:17.779 --> 00:18:21.819 water -only fasting. There was a great case in 00:18:21.819 --> 00:18:25.099 British Medical Journal case reports at True 00:18:25.099 --> 00:18:30.019 North Clinic in California. where a woman with 00:18:30.019 --> 00:18:34.079 stage 3 lymphoma had this remarkable reversal. 00:18:34.400 --> 00:18:37.240 They just published their three -year update, 00:18:37.440 --> 00:18:41.440 and she remains cancer -free. And so, I mean, 00:18:41.460 --> 00:18:43.259 there's exciting things like that in the literature. 00:18:43.339 --> 00:18:46.140 And, of course, after she fasted for two weeks, 00:18:46.140 --> 00:18:49.480 they put her on a strictly no -added -salt -well 00:18:49.480 --> 00:18:54.240 sugar plant -based diet, and she's doing remarkably 00:18:54.240 --> 00:18:58.630 well. So, you know, these should all be. uh options 00:18:58.630 --> 00:19:01.849 that are available to people um but if there's 00:19:01.849 --> 00:19:04.470 good data to suggest that chemo is going to help 00:19:04.470 --> 00:19:07.430 with your cancer radiation i would consider um 00:19:07.430 --> 00:19:10.289 patients seriously consider it right yeah that's 00:19:10.289 --> 00:19:13.430 the thing because from again from my perspective 00:19:13.430 --> 00:19:16.369 like you said 40 percent of the population is 00:19:16.369 --> 00:19:18.609 is going to get some sort of cancer and that's 00:19:18.609 --> 00:19:20.930 directly related to you know the diet and the 00:19:20.930 --> 00:19:22.789 other factors that you talked about and obviously 00:19:23.609 --> 00:19:25.809 If you talk about our species, that has to be 00:19:25.809 --> 00:19:29.490 an environmental input because we're pretty well 00:19:29.490 --> 00:19:32.049 designed to survive. That's a horrible survival 00:19:32.049 --> 00:19:34.690 rate when you look at it. So why not then reverse, 00:19:34.829 --> 00:19:37.930 as you're saying? all the factors that have caused 00:19:37.930 --> 00:19:42.789 it and see if that stops it. Adding more insult 00:19:42.789 --> 00:19:44.769 to the immune system and destroying the body 00:19:44.769 --> 00:19:48.289 even further to my layman brain doesn't seem 00:19:48.289 --> 00:19:51.470 like the most intelligent way of trying to attack 00:19:51.470 --> 00:19:53.029 something that you've done to yourself already. 00:19:54.220 --> 00:19:56.660 Well, yeah, I mean, you know, we know that these 00:19:56.660 --> 00:19:58.980 are environmental causes because you look around 00:19:58.980 --> 00:20:00.779 the world and see cancer rates. There are common 00:20:00.779 --> 00:20:05.579 cancers like breast, colon, prostate, very hundredfold 00:20:05.579 --> 00:20:07.279 around the world. And we know that it's not just 00:20:07.279 --> 00:20:10.700 some kind of, you know, genetic predisposition 00:20:10.700 --> 00:20:12.700 because migration studies show that basically 00:20:12.700 --> 00:20:15.220 your cancer risk is wherever you're living and 00:20:15.220 --> 00:20:18.819 eating. And so, you know, Japanese men who have... 00:20:19.569 --> 00:20:21.269 extremely low prostate cancer rates. And when 00:20:21.269 --> 00:20:23.809 they move to California, for example, start eating 00:20:23.809 --> 00:20:25.990 and living like California, their prostate... 00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:28.579 uh cancer rates shoot through the roof whereas 00:20:28.579 --> 00:20:31.640 the reverse happens in the other direction um 00:20:31.640 --> 00:20:35.259 and uh and so and and now of course we have randomized 00:20:35.259 --> 00:20:36.960 control trials we usually put people on their 00:20:36.960 --> 00:20:40.039 diet and see um uh some of these improvements 00:20:40.039 --> 00:20:42.319 and so you know that i mean when we look around 00:20:42.319 --> 00:20:43.579 the world and say wait a second why is there 00:20:43.579 --> 00:20:46.440 a hundredfold differences in lung cancer rates 00:20:46.440 --> 00:20:48.460 we say wow there must be something that really 00:20:48.460 --> 00:20:50.980 plays a role so we have control over lung cancer 00:20:50.980 --> 00:20:53.339 if the rates were the same everywhere we'd assume 00:20:53.339 --> 00:20:55.220 that it's just some kind of there's nothing we 00:20:55.220 --> 00:20:57.670 can do about it but oh and then we discovered 00:20:57.670 --> 00:21:01.069 oh tobacco smoking um is a is probably the primary 00:21:01.069 --> 00:21:03.730 risk factor for lung cancer a number of other 00:21:03.730 --> 00:21:06.609 cancers and similarly diet plays a major role 00:21:06.609 --> 00:21:09.170 in many of our most common cancer right yeah 00:21:09.170 --> 00:21:11.390 and i think that the china study and um forks 00:21:11.390 --> 00:21:13.609 over knives and some of those you know those 00:21:13.609 --> 00:21:15.609 documentaries and books that were delivered to 00:21:15.609 --> 00:21:19.309 again us the layman It's kind of hard to refute 00:21:19.309 --> 00:21:21.569 a lot of that data when you've got areas that 00:21:21.569 --> 00:21:24.710 are, as you said, that have a very, very high 00:21:24.710 --> 00:21:28.789 number of people in the hundreds and then all 00:21:28.789 --> 00:21:30.970 of a sudden the lifestyle changes, food chains 00:21:30.970 --> 00:21:33.210 come in or cigarette smoke comes in and all of 00:21:33.210 --> 00:21:36.150 a sudden those numbers plummet then. Yeah, yeah. 00:21:36.250 --> 00:21:39.470 And you can see within a generation. So like 00:21:39.470 --> 00:21:41.390 you look at the Okinawa Japanese, some of the 00:21:41.390 --> 00:21:43.230 – one of the longest living population on the 00:21:43.230 --> 00:21:46.130 earth until we – they started opening up KFCs. 00:21:46.720 --> 00:21:49.740 And now they're actually one of the unhealthiest 00:21:49.740 --> 00:21:52.420 populations within Japan just because they so 00:21:52.420 --> 00:21:56.579 westernized their diet. And so, yeah, I mean, 00:21:56.599 --> 00:22:00.099 so it's really kind of sad what we've done. We've 00:22:00.099 --> 00:22:02.680 kind of exported this diet and lifestyle around 00:22:02.680 --> 00:22:06.059 the world. And now, you know, soon, I mean, the 00:22:06.059 --> 00:22:07.359 leading cause of death are going to be these 00:22:07.359 --> 00:22:09.819 chronic diseases, which is good in that we can 00:22:09.819 --> 00:22:12.170 do something about them. And we can treat the 00:22:12.170 --> 00:22:15.569 cause in reverse in many cases, but it's bad 00:22:15.569 --> 00:22:19.509 when we're sticking with this kind of traditional 00:22:19.509 --> 00:22:22.190 medical model. of just putting people on drugs 00:22:22.190 --> 00:22:25.829 for the rest of their lives to treat their blood 00:22:25.829 --> 00:22:28.210 pressure, cholesterol, when we really should 00:22:28.210 --> 00:22:30.890 be treating the cause and eliminating the problem 00:22:30.890 --> 00:22:32.990 in the first place. Absolutely. Now, an area 00:22:32.990 --> 00:22:36.009 that I am convinced causes a huge amount of ill 00:22:36.009 --> 00:22:38.630 health, mentally and physically, in first responders 00:22:38.630 --> 00:22:41.670 is the shift work and the sleep deprivation. 00:22:42.029 --> 00:22:44.789 So what is your view on sleep and sleep deprivation 00:22:44.789 --> 00:22:48.500 and the causes of that in the body? Yeah, well, 00:22:48.599 --> 00:22:49.900 I mean, you know, the biggest problem with shift 00:22:49.900 --> 00:22:51.839 work is this, you know, you're interfering with 00:22:51.839 --> 00:22:54.000 your circadian rhythms. There's this whole burgeoning 00:22:54.000 --> 00:22:57.339 field of chronobiology, which suggests that even 00:22:57.339 --> 00:23:00.039 if you get enough sleep, even without sleep deprivation, 00:23:00.099 --> 00:23:02.579 when people do shift work, I don't call it, you 00:23:02.579 --> 00:23:04.880 know, graveyard shift for nothing. When you do 00:23:04.880 --> 00:23:08.559 shift work, you are at significantly increased 00:23:08.559 --> 00:23:11.779 risk of all range of metabolic disease and a 00:23:11.779 --> 00:23:14.039 significantly shortened lifespan. What you can 00:23:14.039 --> 00:23:17.240 do, and part of that is actually eating. um at 00:23:17.240 --> 00:23:19.079 night we should we really shouldn't be eating 00:23:19.079 --> 00:23:21.339 when it's dark outside actually affects our bodies 00:23:21.339 --> 00:23:25.119 in ways that are um that that that have all sorts 00:23:25.119 --> 00:23:27.500 of negative effects and so we may not have control 00:23:27.500 --> 00:23:29.720 over you know bright lights during night time 00:23:29.720 --> 00:23:31.799 etc you know if you're working at night shift 00:23:31.799 --> 00:23:34.279 but what we can do is try to reduce our caloric 00:23:34.279 --> 00:23:40.640 intake um at at night and that can help um mediate 00:23:40.640 --> 00:23:43.759 some of the damage that we get from that circadian 00:23:43.759 --> 00:23:48.500 disruption Right. Now, speaking of the brain 00:23:48.500 --> 00:23:52.640 itself, what about the effects of food choices 00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:55.740 on mental health? Oh, yeah. Well, so there's 00:23:55.740 --> 00:23:58.039 only been one diet ever been proven to actually 00:23:58.039 --> 00:24:01.019 improve mood, for example, in a randomized controlled 00:24:01.019 --> 00:24:02.759 trial. And that was this plant -based diet where 00:24:02.759 --> 00:24:05.339 they took people, even kind of traditional American 00:24:05.339 --> 00:24:08.480 diet, removed meat, including fish, as well as 00:24:08.480 --> 00:24:10.319 eggs from their diet. So a significant improvement 00:24:10.319 --> 00:24:12.359 in mood within just two weeks. Now, I think it's 00:24:12.359 --> 00:24:15.079 this arachidonic acid, this long -chain inflammatory 00:24:15.079 --> 00:24:18.140 omega -6 fatty acid found not only in chicken 00:24:18.140 --> 00:24:21.559 and eggs, but throughout animal products. I think 00:24:21.559 --> 00:24:24.079 it may be causing what's called neuroinflammatory 00:24:23.920 --> 00:24:27.000 or brain inflammation but we can reduce that 00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:29.220 inflammation with our brains in as short as two 00:24:29.220 --> 00:24:33.700 weeks by removing you know chicken other meat 00:24:33.700 --> 00:24:38.519 eggs from our diet and I mean that's that's we're 00:24:38.519 --> 00:24:40.579 kind of speculating as why that's the case but 00:24:40.579 --> 00:24:42.960 we did see that significant proven mood no other 00:24:42.960 --> 00:24:46.779 diets been shown to do that now what that has 00:24:46.779 --> 00:24:49.880 been done is a similar kind of study on people 00:24:49.880 --> 00:24:52.259 with a major mental illness so these more people 00:24:52.259 --> 00:24:55.089 with With major depression, for example, that 00:24:55.089 --> 00:24:57.789 got better. These are people that felt okay and 00:24:57.789 --> 00:25:00.849 then felt better after two weeks. And so that's 00:25:00.849 --> 00:25:03.589 what these studies really need to be the next 00:25:03.589 --> 00:25:05.329 phase. I think the only dietary studies have 00:25:05.329 --> 00:25:08.069 on major mental illness are on anxiety disorder, 00:25:08.309 --> 00:25:10.329 showing that, for example, for people with generalized 00:25:10.329 --> 00:25:16.759 anxiety disorder. Giving people squash seeds 00:25:16.759 --> 00:25:21.680 because of the high tryptophan, low protein combination 00:25:21.680 --> 00:25:26.460 may actually improve anxiety disorder symptoms. 00:25:26.660 --> 00:25:29.240 I have a video on that. butternut squash seeds 00:25:29.240 --> 00:25:31.759 yeah okay and like you said earlier with the 00:25:31.759 --> 00:25:34.019 sugar and the salt you know we really have created 00:25:34.019 --> 00:25:36.680 this environment now where we have an emotional 00:25:36.680 --> 00:25:39.059 attachment to our food so i think there's that 00:25:39.059 --> 00:25:41.920 interrelation there versus you know if it was 00:25:41.920 --> 00:25:44.019 just the clean plant base would that still be 00:25:44.019 --> 00:25:46.240 the same would you would you You know, have a 00:25:46.240 --> 00:25:48.680 bad day and then say, OK, I need to go eat a 00:25:48.680 --> 00:25:51.720 zucchini now. Probably not. Right. People aren't 00:25:51.720 --> 00:25:53.000 getting up in the middle of the night binging 00:25:53.000 --> 00:25:55.859 on broccoli. That is very true. Right. I mean, 00:25:55.880 --> 00:25:57.619 there's a reason, right, that people, you know, 00:25:57.619 --> 00:25:59.519 we have these drives towards particularly these 00:25:59.519 --> 00:26:04.799 fatty sugary combinations like, you know, chocolate 00:26:04.799 --> 00:26:07.180 frosting, that kind of thing, where that seems 00:26:07.180 --> 00:26:10.710 to be particularly potent. effect because out 00:26:10.710 --> 00:26:12.990 in nature there really does there aren't natural 00:26:12.990 --> 00:26:15.750 foods with both um with the exception of human 00:26:15.750 --> 00:26:18.109 breast milk which may have been why we evolved 00:26:18.109 --> 00:26:20.990 to have this real predilection for that combination 00:26:20.990 --> 00:26:23.329 and of course the processed food industry is 00:26:23.329 --> 00:26:25.490 more than happy to provide us with ice cream 00:26:25.490 --> 00:26:27.890 and things like that which really tap into those 00:26:27.890 --> 00:26:31.130 uh those kind of brain reward systems but unfortunately 00:26:31.130 --> 00:26:34.009 at the expense of our health right so then the 00:26:34.009 --> 00:26:35.890 last question before we go to where people can 00:26:35.890 --> 00:26:38.759 find the websites So someone listening now, let's 00:26:38.759 --> 00:26:40.720 say they've got type 2 diabetes, hypertension, 00:26:41.180 --> 00:26:43.079 you know, all these diseases that we see, the 00:26:43.079 --> 00:26:45.500 chronic diseases. They're eating the average 00:26:45.500 --> 00:26:47.640 American diet. I know that's a broad term, but 00:26:47.640 --> 00:26:49.900 what kind of advice would you give them to how 00:26:49.900 --> 00:26:52.140 to begin to change their diet and what to kind 00:26:52.140 --> 00:26:54.710 of remove initially? Oh, I mean, well, I would 00:26:54.710 --> 00:26:58.089 tell them the tremendous good news, and that 00:26:58.089 --> 00:27:01.549 is we have power over our health, destiny, and 00:27:01.549 --> 00:27:03.309 longevity. The vast majority of premature death 00:27:03.309 --> 00:27:05.369 and disability is preventable with a plant -based 00:27:05.369 --> 00:27:07.210 diet and healthy lifestyle behaviors and high 00:27:07.210 --> 00:27:10.150 blood pressure. And type 2 diabetes are not just 00:27:10.150 --> 00:27:13.230 arrestable but reversible with a healthy enough 00:27:13.230 --> 00:27:16.200 diet, and so I would encourage them. um to you 00:27:16.200 --> 00:27:18.059 know go all in there's a wonderful program called 00:27:18.059 --> 00:27:21.940 the 21 day kickstart program it's free uh it's 00:27:21.940 --> 00:27:24.200 um put on by the physicians committee for responsible 00:27:24.200 --> 00:27:26.599 medicine starts at the first of each month done 00:27:26.599 --> 00:27:28.380 it's a bunch of different languages hundreds 00:27:28.380 --> 00:27:30.180 of thousands of people have done it you do as 00:27:30.180 --> 00:27:32.319 part of a social media group and you get like 00:27:32.319 --> 00:27:35.200 daily recipes and inspiration um the hope is 00:27:35.200 --> 00:27:37.259 you know after three weeks you'll just feel so 00:27:37.259 --> 00:27:40.440 good that you'll have that internal motivation 00:27:40.440 --> 00:27:45.599 to keep it up. And if you do have a chronic illness 00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:47.980 like this, I encourage you to go get your labs 00:27:47.980 --> 00:27:50.019 taken before and after just so you see the dramatic 00:27:50.019 --> 00:27:54.099 difference in health indicators as well. And 00:27:54.099 --> 00:27:59.059 so, you know, something like diabetes, number 00:27:59.059 --> 00:28:02.420 one cause of lower limb amputations, blindness, 00:28:02.819 --> 00:28:06.079 dialysis, kidney failure, but none of that is 00:28:06.079 --> 00:28:09.250 inevitable. That's only if you continue to eat 00:28:09.250 --> 00:28:11.490 the standard American diet where you'll die of 00:28:11.490 --> 00:28:13.349 the standard American diseases. But there's no 00:28:13.349 --> 00:28:16.250 reason to do that. And you really do have control 00:28:16.250 --> 00:28:19.609 at the end of your fork. So that is the good 00:28:19.609 --> 00:28:22.710 news. And if anyone's interested in learning 00:28:22.710 --> 00:28:25.869 more, they can check out my website, nutritionfacts 00:28:25.869 --> 00:28:28.710 .org. Brilliant. All right. And then I just want 00:28:28.710 --> 00:28:30.029 to talk about the book as well. So the book is 00:28:30.029 --> 00:28:32.069 called How Not to Die, which I think is one of 00:28:32.069 --> 00:28:33.849 the best titles I've ever read. And then you 00:28:33.849 --> 00:28:36.730 have a cookbook attached to that as well. Sure. 00:28:36.829 --> 00:28:40.490 And then December of this year, How Not to Diet 00:28:40.490 --> 00:28:43.619 on weight loss is coming out December 10th. Perfect. 00:28:43.720 --> 00:28:45.640 All right. Well, I want to say thank you so much. 00:28:45.720 --> 00:28:47.000 I mean, again, I want to underline to everyone 00:28:47.000 --> 00:28:49.259 listening that, as you said, the proceeds go 00:28:49.259 --> 00:28:52.240 to help the cause. You've got the websites, it's 00:28:52.240 --> 00:28:54.119 all free information. And I think that's a big, 00:28:54.180 --> 00:28:57.019 big thing. When people are doing this out of 00:28:57.019 --> 00:28:58.880 the love of, you know, wanting to make change 00:28:58.880 --> 00:29:00.700 in the world, I think that's very powerful. So 00:29:00.700 --> 00:29:03.380 I urge everyone to go to nutritionfacts .org, 00:29:03.500 --> 00:29:06.420 learn more. I never felt better than when I was 00:29:06.420 --> 00:29:07.859 on the plant -based diet. I've got to be honest, 00:29:07.940 --> 00:29:10.180 I had Rip Esselstyn on the show. He talks about 00:29:10.180 --> 00:29:13.359 the same thing. So, you know, even if it's just 00:29:13.359 --> 00:29:16.700 to reverse some issues for now, use that as a, 00:29:16.700 --> 00:29:19.140 you know, as a goal. And then obviously, if you 00:29:19.140 --> 00:29:21.160 carry it on, then even better. But yeah, I mean, 00:29:21.160 --> 00:29:23.700 there's no question in my mind that I felt better. 00:29:23.799 --> 00:29:25.460 And there's no question in my all the research 00:29:25.460 --> 00:29:27.900 I've done that so many of these diseases are 00:29:27.900 --> 00:29:30.200 reversible. And, you know, it puts the power 00:29:30.200 --> 00:29:32.740 back in the individual instead of the industries. 00:29:34.359 --> 00:29:38.920 Fantastic. Then our paramedics can leave more 00:29:38.920 --> 00:29:42.420 relaxed lifestyles and get some sleep when they're 00:29:42.420 --> 00:29:46.140 not getting calls all the time for people clutching 00:29:46.140 --> 00:29:48.440 at their chests. Absolutely. Well, thank you 00:29:48.440 --> 00:29:50.539 so much for taking the time and it's been a great 00:29:50.539 --> 00:29:53.059 conversation. I really enjoyed it. Absolutely. 00:29:53.059 --> 00:29:55.339 Thank you so much. Keep up the good work yourself.