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I'll spell that to you because it's not as you
think, T -E -A -M -B -U -I -L -D -R .com. Welcome
to the Behind the Shield podcast. As always,
my name is James Gearing, and this week it is
my absolute honor to welcome back onto the show
Jeff and Catherine Nichols. Now, what I love
about the conversations with Jeff and Catherine
is they are raw and unfiltered. Jeff has a background
in Tier 1 special operations, and Catherine has
worked with our community on the wellness side.
Jeff is also a revered tactical strength and
conditioning coach. So in this conversation,
we discuss a host of topics. From the damage
Instagram influencers are having on people's
wellness and performance to cowardice in leadership
and everything in between. Now, before we get
to this incredible conversation, as I say every
week, please just take a moment. Go to whichever
app you listen to this on, subscribe to the show,
leave feedback and leave a rating. Every single
five -star rating truly does elevate this podcast,
therefore making it easier for others to find.
And this is a free library of well over 1 ,000
episodes now. So all I ask in return is that
you help share these incredible men and women's
stories so I can get them to every single person
on planet Earth who needs to hear them. So with
that being said, I welcome back onto the show...
Jeff and Catherine Nichols. Enjoy. Well, Jeff
and Catherine, I want to start by saying thank
you so much for taking the time and coming back
onto the Behind the Shield podcast today. It's
good to see you, James. You bet. You're welcome.
And this is the first time I've had you on together,
isn't it? I think so. I think, yeah, I think
we kind of, the last time you and I recorded,
like she was maybe not this close to me, but
we were like in an apartment somewhere like Airbnb
in Austin or something like that. So she's always
pretty. But yeah, this is, it's been, I actually
prefer this. It's a, there's a, there's a much
more better balance here with like what we do.
So it's, I think it's so much better to have
her of course here. Well, the last time Jeff
and I spoke was episode five 48. Your first one,
she was episode 25. That's how long, how far
back we go. And then Catherine was five 69. So
people listening, if you want some more backstory,
go to those ones, but those two kind of line
up with the very end of 2021, the very beginning
of 2022. I know that when we spoke, we were reflecting
on what was a very recent thing as far as the
pandemic. I like to keep revisiting this because,
in my opinion, the lessons that should have been
learned weren't. And there was a disregarding
of making the nation healthier. And it was the
World War I trenches of Chinese conspiracy or
everyone's going to die from COVID. As an icebreaker,
what is your perspective now reflecting in 2025
as far as things if they were done well? And
then what do we need to kind of learn from that?
What can we not shove under the carpet? Go ahead.
As far as what we've learned well from COVID,
I think some people have learned to really start
to question authority, question the medical system,
question the food system. I think some people
have done a good job in that. I think. More of
what we got out of it actually was poor behavior.
I think it was very isolating. I remember James
specifically talking to you about people going
to public gyms and doing that. I feel like, yes,
that has gotten more popular again, but I don't
think it'll ever be the same as it was prior
to COVID. And I think people still are more likely
to isolate themselves or continue that behavior
rather than going back into healthier habits
or being in a community. Yeah, I mean, I simply
I think that I think what was accomplished by
the people who set out to accomplish what they
were trying to accomplish, they did it. They
created massive separation and they created these
this have and have not pool in the same thing
of like, let's compare ourselves situation. And
then I think that that's that's that's in exactly
what Catherine said. I think I think a bunch
of eyes got opened. But then I realized, too,
you know, a lot of eyes got open. The power of
the opening the eyes didn't happen. We just got
them closed again. And I think that COVID, for
me, it's the catalyst for so many of my decisions
for now because everything I need to know about
society's standpoint and what they think, I know
COVID now. COVID told me everything I need to
know about society in the United States and its
people. It just caused so much mistrust, misinformation,
and I guess the speed of information and misinformation.
I guess it was incredibly hard to trust anybody
or information during that time. And so now you
have all these people just like Jeff is an extreme
person. He always has been. Now it's extreme.
Now there's zero trust in it. And I can totally
respect that perspective as well. I will say
that to the point of my understanding about medicine
and science and things like that, the likelihood
of me ever, ever going to another medical doctor
in this country to provide health and wellness
oversight is probably close to zero. I will never
go to another physician in the United States
again for my sickness, for my colds, for my infections,
nothing. I'm done with that. My wife may be different
in that sense, but again, my extreme nature,
I've seen the truth. It's like COVID. No paper
mask is going to stop a virus. I literally did
two missions in which we were going at people
with Ebola and anthrax. We didn't have a paper
mask over our mouth. The center, basically the
governing body or the oversighting body for chemical,
biological, nuclear warfare is here in Virginia
Beach, SEAL Team 6. Nothing. It would take one
hand to go, hey guys, when we do this for real,
we cover our body in complete rubber respirators.
This paper nonsense didn't work in 1918 Spanish
flu, and it is not going to work now. And the
fact that we've had medical professionals just
outward lying, and we're still hearing it, and
no one is being held accountable, that's all
I need to know about my country. Well, what was
sad is, again, my profession, we wear respirators
for a living. You know, we wear SCBAs in fires
and then we wear medical masks when we are in
the back of an ambulance or a rescue. And we're
with a patient that's virulent. And when we have
our mask testing every year, we're having, you
know, put it on and we, you know, have to do
all these bodily movements and grimace and they
spray this. Yeah, they spray this bitter almond,
I think it is. And if you can smell it, then
there's, you know. And so this is a one -time
use N95 mask. And then my community also, we're
in the world of medicine. So we're exposed to
science. We talk about, you know, viruses and
pandemics and all these things. And all the information
that we're being fed was different than what
we were being told to trust the science. So the
firefighters and the paramedics and EMS of the
world were just standing there going, What are
you talking about? Yeah. Yeah. And just the silliness
too, like people, you know, would be like wiping
off their grocery bags or something like with
a, like a little bleach cloth or just, you know,
wipe it, just randomly wiping things off. And
I'm just like, why are we, that's not, that's
such an odd illogical thing to do. Yep. Yeah.
So I mean, I think there's a lot of things. I
think my hope always, this is that, that there
is a continuing awareness of. being critical
thinkers. And I think that that's with, with
kind of the way the, it's awesome that we're
just a touch point away from technology, all
these sorts of things. You got us back. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. No, cool. Yeah. I'm sure this is
where we'll edit it. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. I
think that that's like trying to, you know, have
technology be useful in critical thinking. And
I think that that's like where we we thought
that that would be the key. Right. It's like
we have all this information. We have people
saying one thing. We have someone saying this,
like, let's use our technology to find facts.
And, you know, that you had grocery stores like
Whole Foods removing NAC and acetyl and acetylcysteine
and all these really helpful that we know now
are people going, oh, yeah, that's right. This
stuff totally does work. And sorry, we took it
off the shelves like and no one nobody's punished
for that. That complete, complete, utter lack
of accountability tells me everything I need
to know about our leadership, our president,
our administration, our government, all that
for me. I just like we have the smartest humans
on the planet that are critical thinkers and
firefighters, police officers, operators. Not
a single voice was heard. Yeah, exactly. And
we had so many people even in the wellness space.
I mean, this is the thing that I said throughout
the whole two years plus was you've got. It's
a Chinese conspiracy, people. Okay, I'm not going
to have a vaccine. All right, well, then you
need to rely on your human body and your immune
system. So making you healthier is the main priority.
The other side, I believe that vaccines will
help. Okay, good. Well, then you need to have
a healthy immune response to the vaccine that
you put in your body. So the healthier the human,
the higher the survivability. So the only real
focus aside from PPE, if you do or don't want
to, and then ultimately a vaccine, if you do
or don't want to. is making the nation healthier.
And at the end, I think we touched on this probably
last time, we should have seen the pedestrianization
of some downtowns, the real food put back in
the schools, PE programs bolstered, local farmers
being subsidized to make clean food. None of
that happened. None of it. And see, that's the
fear. That's someone that me, that I'm extremely
capable. And so I started asking myself, do I
need to really rely on any of these people and
their information? It just kept, like I said,
prior to getting on here, just sort of kept the
isolation. It kept people still, though they
might not be living in fear from COVID at the
moment, it still created this. new habit of staying
at home or not going out or ordering in food
or, you know, not going out to make the best
food choices because somebody is actually now
doing the grocery shopping for you. You know,
it's just like it's too convenient. And it's
and it's really it's a really unreliable system
when you're just sort of got your head down in
technology. And that's where all of your information,
whether it's about health or or technology, you
know, if that's the only place where you're getting
it from, like, geez, we really created a bigger
problem here. Yeah. And the festering of the
people. So like there's a percentage of human
beings during COVID that to this day are still
all in on it. Those people are children. Some
of them, those children will become adults someday
and start voting. We haven't even seen the bad
yet. We haven't even, the seeds of absolute terrible
human beings that were planted during that time
haven't come to fruition yet. So that's what
we like. That's where the bubbles you don't see
is like you and I are we're having this arguments
like, hey, let's be critical thinking all these
sort of things. But we saw people all across
this country wearing like this, like water bottles
on their head with duct tape around their neck
and like legitimately thought that that is that
is a good human idea. And that right there goes,
that is why I have a 28 -acre farm in a state
where guns and ammo are extremely legal to possess
that I can defend my property when this government
goes upside down. That's how I feel. And hopefully
that doesn't happen, but I'm going to be ready
because I do not trust anybody that's 167 miles
north of me. So, no, like I've got everything.
I've got all my facts and I've got my science
and I've got my people around me. I don't need
anything else. So it's going to be, it'll be,
I'm curious. I'm curious how, like my son just
turned 18 and pretty well adjusted kid. He certainly
went through the COVID experience and he is a
very critical thinking, good, like wits about
in person. So you kind of like what's, what's
frightening is he's going to go off to college
this year and counter the opposite people that
we. And so that generation, how that plays out,
I'm hoping that people that are my son's age
have opened their eyes and hearts enough to go,
whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. We're not
going to let society go into a panic when they're
30 years old, when they're our age, when they're
30s and 40s making these decisions for family
members and jobs and things like that. My hope,
my prayers are that the kids that witness this
nonsense won't put up with it. In the future.
That's my only, that's my only hope, honestly,
is because I hear a lot of youth go, this is
crazy. This is, this isn't critical thinking.
And, you know, like my son, you talk, it was
all this bullying stuff taught you here about
school. And I was like, my son to this day is
like, he's never witnessed a moment of bullying
in school. You know, not that it doesn't exist,
but I just think that like, we, we take these
ideas and we propagate them. They're like, they're
everyone's problem. instead of just regional
or areas or something so i think it's like throw
the baby out the bath water both ways and we
gotta like stop and like wait wait wait wait
wait both you extremes aren't helping anybody
and i think that that's that that mid mid mid
middle voice does not exist in america except
for in podcasts That's the only play. And then
conversation, you know, like, but you're not
going to see it in the news. You're never going
to hear it from our president. You're never going
to hear it from our administration. You're never
going to hear it from our joint chiefs. You're
never going to hear it from any of them people.
Because it's for somehow, you know, somehow that
stuff has fallen off of society's sort of like
menu, like the real leaders, like, because people
are always like, how do you make change on the
inside? I'm like, well. It's gotta, it's gotta
come top and it's gotta come bottom up, you know,
and it doesn't, sometimes it's top heavy and
the bottom slow to come. Sometimes we're bottom
heavy and everyone's pushing, but then we don't
have the upper support. So I'm not sure how to
get everyone to communicate. I really don't.
I think podcasts are a real great place, but
it's just, it's, I think a lot, some of us too
in our field, we can vent a bit. And the family
that's living paycheck to paycheck and really
stressed out differently than some of us, it's
hard to convince that family that their priorities
are out of order. And so I'm trying to be empathetic
to it because there's so many good people. And
I want people to keep serving and trying, but
it's hard for me to be patient. What's been frustrating
for me is trying to... can disseminate the information
on all the things that are challenging our mental
health, our physical health, our relationships.
And I mean, so much information. I've got over
a thousand episodes now. It's a free library
for people to dive into. And now in Florida,
it's gaining steam as far as people opening their
eyes on the work week, which is amazing. I mean,
it really is. But one of my biggest resistances
are the firefighters themselves. And this kind
of parallels COVID. If you keep people stressed
and tired, They're very easy to brainwash. And
I have literally young firefighters that are
pushing again. Oh, that'll never happen. They'll
never go for it. We don't have the money there.
They're saying things that these little fucking
coward chiefs are saying. They're mimicking it.
And I'm like, why do you not found your family
not deserve to have you home? You're not going
to fight to go home to be with your son or your
daughter or your husband or your wife or your
partner. Like, where's your backbone? And it's
because. They're so beaten down. Some of them
are just fucking cowards, but some of them are
just so exhausted that they can't critically
think. But asking the simple question, the guy
that made my coffee today, I always use his barista.
He works 40 hours a week. I love my coffee. He
does a great job. The person who you're going
to call after pushing three numbers on your worst
day ever is probably working either 56 or 80
hours that week. It's insane. you know when when
you beat down a group and you get them tired
and stressed enough they lose their ability to
critically think and they become they become
sheep and i don't mean that in a demeaning way
i just mean literally where the shepherd goes
they don't question it they just follow they
do yeah yeah and i think that you know i just
that it's a it's a not to belittle it that's
a very complex thing we're trying to unpack certainly
it's a complex thing but you said it man like
that's like that's the biggest The thing that
frustrates me more than anything, like honestly,
in terms of my profession, our job is, and it
sounds, civilians really think that we're full
of shit. Like our leadership and our military
leadership are fucking useless. Absolutely. Like
not a single, not a single person that's in our
joint chiefs or leadership command has ever led
humans into combat. Not one time. They've just
watched it all, you know? And then it's all,
they're all policymakers. And it's like, whoa,
like, like the Commodore here, like telling Navy
SEALs directly, you guys are not gunfighters.
You better get used to this. Like you're telling
the most equipped, trained, skilled fucking warriors
on the planet, right? At least the United States,
that they should get used to not doing anything
because they're no longer gunfighters. That is
what the highest ranking SEAL officer here in
Virginia Beach said. Like, wow. Like, and so
we have all these active duty seals that we train
that come in, they come in and they're just,
just like you said, head down going, fuck man.
Like, what am I doing? Like, why am I working
so hard in these very dangerous things to be
told by the person that's in charge of me, get
used to this. You're not a gunfighter. And that
very, very person was my commander at red squadron,
which. I'm like, that's exactly, that's what
I'm fucking talking about. You're an officer
that never fucking once did what we did, not
one time. And yet you're there standing like
you're a police chief. I'm just, that's why,
like, I'm like, you're right, man. Like there
are, there are some people that have weak backbones,
but there's a big, big percentage of people that
are just fucking tired. And because they love
duty, they love, they really deep down inside,
there's a core belief of love for what they do.
That's why they can't balance that. This love
is providing for my family, which I love, but
I got to have support from all this stuff. That
was always something, whether I did it right
or did it wrong, I never bent backwards from
my leadership. Not at all. Not as far as that.
Now, did I do it in a very pragmatic way? No.
but I also like, my thought was that if I, cause
I saw, here's the thing is I saw other people
stand their ground and like, yeah. Okay. So I'm
going to stand my ground because you know why?
Like my new guys need to see me stand my ground.
And it's just, I, I'm not sure where to do that
because I got, obviously I'm never been a police
officer, never been a firefighter, but I am certain
that across the top of our military law enforcement
fire, we all have the same complaints. I'm certain
of it. We do. I can tell you from a thousand
interviews, we literally do. And it's amazing
because you hear the same themes over and over
again. And the very thing that is an asset to
you and your unit is an asset to me. I mean,
we're the Swiss army knife of the first responder
community. If it doesn't involve arresting, we're
it. And so you want that person who challenges,
you want that person who innovates, who thinks
outside the box. But then we're seeing now this
culture of just shut up and run your calls. And
you've got these people that are relying on overtime
to staff their department year in, year out.
So these people are working, like I said, 80,
eight zero hour work weeks every other week.
And then we wonder why divorces are happening
and suicides are happening and cancer is happening.
And so being the weirdo is just literally putting
your hand up like you were saying earlier and
saying. Why the fuck are we working 80 hours
a week or 56 hours a week? But that in itself
is, you know, heresy until now. So this is why
I'm excited. I think there really is an awakening.
It's a small group of people in the middle. But
I think the middle are finally kind of dipping
their knuckles in glass and saying enough is
enough. Agreed. Yeah. And that's my hope. Like,
and that's the, that's the thing about technology.
We think that we'd be able to access that group
through this eminent technology, but we can't
because we are absolutely silenced. Like it,
and that's the thing is like, you know, people
are going like, say to me, like, I don't understand
how you can have such a strong opinion without
being a medical doctor. Like, how could you give
such advice? I'm like, so that person, that person
is what I'm talking about. Like that type is
like that. every waking moment it's like let
me turn on the tv and see what dr phil is going
to give me it's for my advice right you're like
wait a minute like where you're getting all of
your medical advice from your local networks
like okay so so anyone that has that idea like
i know for the rest of my life i never will ever
get along with them anyone that's completely
lacking that sense and so i'm hoping i i'm hoping
you're right that we get We get the middle to
grow. Right. And it's not to be right. It's not
to be like, hey, see, I'm right. It's like because
we're talking about critical life and death things.
Like when I'm bitching, it's not because I don't
want to deploy. I'm bitching because we're taking
a bunch of locals that literally will throw a
grenade in our fucking tent. Like, I don't want
to take those assholes. And so I'm not saying,
hey, I don't want to deploy. Like, no fucking
I want to deploy. But I want to be on the terms
that we are in control. And we lose control when
our officers and the senior enlisted have never
done our job, start mandating what we should
do and make decisions on target. And I know that
happens for fire. I know it happens for police.
And I don't know how, except for I do know, this
entire society has been set up to be do as I
say, not what I do, from the president all the
way down. Whether you like the president or not,
last time that asshole was in office, COVID happened.
And he didn't take any fucking measures. Why?
Because all the people surrounding him were fucking
goons just like he was. It's weird enough he
kind of surrounded himself with a decent human
being, like a couple of them maybe. But we'll
see, man. I don't trust JFK for anything. And
that's only because of history. Now, I will say
that probably the last human being that was the
president of the United States was a good human.
our own country killed, which was his, his, his,
you know, his, his grandfather, not his uncle
or whatever. Right. So like, I look at it and
go, I hope, I sure hope that some of the things
are being said because you and I hear that stuff
and go, Oh my God, this is, this is, this, these
are game changers. Like if our school system
lunches improve, like the moms across America
finally get that voice that they deserve and
change our school lunches for our children. That
for me would make my heart smile, right? Totally.
That's so huge. And so, granted, these are all
big leaps, but it's so doable because I hear
the voices. I'm just hoping that those voices
take a position of leadership at some point,
somehow. I don't know, man. I know I'm frustrated
and kind of rambling a bit, but it's because
I give a darn. Not just because I do, and I know
my wife does, but we get people come to our office
and our facility all the time. Through all this
madness that you and I are frustrated about,
you have this 22 -year -old kid that's like,
sign me up, let me go. I'm like, okay, so instead
of me begrudging him, it's my purpose to encourage.
It shelters me a little bit, but I still get
frustrated, clearly. Catherine, anything to add?
As far as getting people to like pay attention
and like the middle ground folks, I do think,
James, like you said, some people, there is sort
of an awakening happening and there's been a
huge push. I think it's pretty mainstream now
for one to hear about breath work or meditation
or, you know, getting back to eating healthy
or at least natural foods or something like that.
Right. I do think that there is a push for people
to start to make. change in in the right direction
but again like i said before i think it's hard
for people to trust any any direction right now
um i i am hoping though i'm i am hoping that
you know the the more we know about what chemicals
or what things that we're putting in food i do
really hope that people continue to put their
foot down uh on this topic specifically um i
think it's It's been a criminal situation for
the last X amount of years and especially in
this country. So where we see it first, this
pushback that you're talking about is when it
comes down to food or breathing, meditation,
breath work, that kind of stuff. That's where
we're kind of seeing some of that huge pushback.
Yeah, it's like we're trying to really affect
what we know we can, right? As much as I want
to yell and scream and get these huge sweeping
changes, I think that... where the operator the
officer the firefighter comes to us they see
the same stuff too so it's like there's no sense
in me getting spun about that because what they
really need is what what they all need in some
part a part of a way to down regulate or understand
how they can and that's helpful to them and i
think that that's that's the that's the hard
lesson because so many of us are really good
putting on the gas firefighters police officers
law enforcement military like really pretty good
at gas we're not super good at the break And
when we hit the brake, it's kind of like there's
some uneasiness, shakiness. We don't like that
slowing down because it's like, for me, I'm a
doer. And the last thing, hopefully the last
gift I receive is some patience here. But I think
that that's the hard part for a lot of us because
in the military, law enforcement, and police,
there's so many achievements within it, new ranks,
new schools. There's all this drive for achievement.
And sometimes when we take on a leadership role,
it takes on a totally different focus. It's not
about achievement. It's more about making sure
you're a good mentor. And I think that that's
something internally which we need a whole lot
more of across the board as a mentorship. But
that's like a whole like, how do we do that?
And I think we're all kind of trying to do that
in a way. So I think that's important. But again,
like I said, I'm still pretty hopeful. I think
we're also seeing a lot of people reach outside
of organizations. There's so many different little
organizations now that are willing to help. This
is a perfect example of a podcast where you're
having this firsthand information. So whether
it's information like this or you're seeking
out good coaches or you're seeking out a dietician
to make some of those changes, I think we're
seeing a lot more of these individual kind of
little pop -up things. In the military, sometimes
those aren't really accessible or accessible
in the right way. And I think the same thing
for just the general public. I think that we're
seeing some of that, you know, people trending
towards these little pop -up healthy, you know,
whether it's nutrition or meditation, things
like that. Yeah. I actually was at Publix yesterday,
our grocery store here, and we were in the mixer
aisle. My wife was grabbing water, but in the
same aisle was... all the alcohol free mixers.
So like the fake gins and bourbons and all that.
And I think this is the thing is you vote with
your dollar. And there is, I think, a beginning
of a health revolution, something that I'm not
over yet. I'm still on and off. But alcohol,
my body hates alcohol, you know, and that's another
massive thing. So I think that there are these
these snowballs that are starting to grow. And,
you know, there's an equal and opposite resistance
to it. Of course, I just saw. I'm not 100 % sure
if this was true, so I didn't repost it. But
supposedly, there was a bill proposed in Texas
to remove a lot of fast food from food stamps.
And there was opposition from the American Heart
Association. Yeah, exactly. Supposedly, it was
Pepsi and I forget, the Frito -Lays company.
not general mills but yes yeah yeah i think it
was general mills yes yeah so so they actually
fund aha and it's the same with um i think with
the nsca if i'm not mistaken this stuff like
have you ever been in the cafeteria of the u
.s olympic training center no it's not that level
Every single thing is in the U .S. Olympic Training
Center food galley. It's like Kraft macaroni
and cheese, like Tyson's breaded chicken. It's
everything that's subsidized by the government.
It's the worst quality food on the planet. It's
like in London. The entire village was meat -free.
Our athletes in the United States had to leave
the village to get meat. That's weird because
we're massive meat -eaters, so I don't even know
where that came from. That was the French Olympics.
No meat. You have these things. You're going,
are we in this weird little comic book in Gotham
City? If you read Batman and you go to the pages,
there's a picture of the Gotham Times. The headlines
that's in the Gotham Times are happening. I was
telling one of my guests just the other day,
have you watched the film Idiocracy? Oh, it is.
We're living it. And there was a thing on Instagram
a while ago, and it was saying that the costume
designer, I think this is about 20 years old
now, that film was looking for a shoe that no
one would be obviously wearing in the real future.
So she came up with Crocs. And here we are. Here
we are. Combat Crocs. So I look at that and I'm
just like, I have to think this is like you and
I and Catherine and people that are aware and
awake. Like we must be in this really small bubble,
you know, like I, cause I, cause you know, the
people we work out with fairly fit or trying
to be fit or trying to breathe better. Like all
these sorts of things will always, we're constantly
around people that are trying to find some form
of self -improvement. Right. And then you hear
things like this and you're like, wait a minute.
Like who's still not aware that fluoride in your
water is bad. Like, how are we still like. How
is that still a thing? Like, how are we still
putting fluoride in our food, in our mouth? Like
that stuff. And you're just like, cause you have,
you know, all this research that was science
heavy. And then they're like, well, there's,
there's some legitimate research that science
heavy, but no one wants to hear that. Weird,
weird, weird. I want to, I know you've got a
whole, probably a bunch of topics you want to
go over, but here's the other one that drives
us nuts is. in the rare instance that we are
watching TV, the commercials that come on are
always, um, like medication commercials. And
I'm like, this is, and some of the medications
are so, so targeted to something so specific.
I'm like, what are we actually even watching
right now? You know, or they all end with like
sky Rizzy, all these, and they all have to do
with gut and skin issues. Go. No, maybe we're
just speechless now, but you probably feel the
same way. It's such a specific thing. I've had
that too. It's some disease of the left fingernail
on the pinky finger. Are there that many people
that suffer from this that it's worth spending
millions and millions of dollars putting this
on Nickelodeon? Yes, the side effects sound awful.
And then moreover, every single one of those
commercials ends with, speak to your physician
to see if you need this. And I'm like, if this...
This is an awful idea. This is terrible. It's
just bonkers. Food and medicine, bonkers. If
you read the Marxist handbook, step number one
is you demonize intellectuals. Step number two,
you go after the warrior class. You go after
police, military, and law enforcement. Step number
three, you attack the food system. That is where
we're at, folks. Straight out of the Marxist
handbook. We are living it. Right. Again. And
that's the problem is like we always say cliches
like history repeats itself. Well, no shit. I'm
aware of that. So let's fucking stop. You know,
it's like we're like, but that's again is like
we the people that are in charge. They have no
interest in our best interest. And we continue
to think that a two party system is somehow like
fair, like you like useful, like there's 380
million people. You think that all of us. 380
million people only believe in one or two ways
like that's ridiculous so you go into what the
cheese aisle there's 75 different kinds of cheese
but we got two political parties that are all
the same people funded by the same assholes making
the same decisions that for them and the fact
that we we've we've taken our political figures
and made them celebrities and now like you're
gonna pick a side I'm on my side. You're on your
side. You don't understand me. You don't know.
You're evil. You're evil. I'm on this side. Pick
a side. You've got to be on a side. If you're
not on my side, you're against both of us. That's
what we've lived since 2000, since COVID. It
has been super clear of who really has our best
interest in mind. And I hope that, listen, I
hope that everything that I say that I eat my
words the next time we talk. I promise you, I
hope I do. Because this is one thing in my life,
man, I really hope I'm wrong about. I've said
the same thing. 340 million people, regardless
of your left or right leaning, if any, you're
telling me these are the best leaders. And we
know they're not. No one, when they're first
out the gate, when you've got lots to choose
from, ever was like Joe Biden is the best leader.
John Donald Trump. He's a person of color. He's
orange, so we'll have him. It's absolutely fucking
ridiculous. So when you have these two sides
against each other, and then someone on the show
a while ago gave a great analogy. If you are
in a medieval village, you get two groups of
peasants arguing with each other. He goes, where
are they not looking? At the castle. This is
where we're at. No one's saying our system is
broken, is corrupt. You have to be a millionaire
or a billionaire and you have to have zero ethics
to succeed in this game. It's not democracy.
It's demistocracy. Yes. It's completely fucking
broken. It doesn't represent the country. And,
you know, as another one of my guests said, he's
like, you got to also remember that America is
the poster child for democracy. And when people
are looking across the ocean, the land, whatever
it is, and they see 70 % obesity or overweight,
consuming 75 % of the world's opiates, 25 % of
the world's incarcerated people, school shootings
on a weekly basis. You know, is it working? No,
because it's not democracy. We're allowing these
groups to be the puppet masters of these so -called
presidents that we have instead of us as a nation
coming together and not being allowed to be divided
and say we are going to change the way we choose
them and start getting good leaders for this
country again. Yeah, but you're right. Like we
just are such we're over medicated, over drugged.
We're we're numbed so much. that we don't even
know what's going on in the place that we keep
saying we're in charge we're the people like
no you're not like it's you know you can't even
like again i i'm not i'm gonna kind of quote
this but like because i'm i don't i don't i don't
respect or appreciate either the both candidates
the previously i'm not neither one of them me
neither but you start looking at it and you're
like like which one like i said like which one's
the better better the two and you're like neither
of them like how do we get there like well they
were chosen like by who well you're i know we
they those were pre -selected like i didn't you
know there was no one like and so then it's like
where did we gain right and then mistrust keeps
going and things like that and i just i i i don't
know how to stop that because just like you said
it's like just every four years i'm just going
to show up like a and not really even pay attention
i'm just going to pick all democratic all republican
and it's just I'm not sure how to make that change,
but this is my thought. When has something like
this ever been changed peacefully? In the history
of humans, when has an ideologic organization
like America, we'll call it, has ever gone like,
you know what? Here's the keys to the capital,
people. We are real sorry. Is that how we handle
the Indians here? No, we didn't. That's not how
we handled anything here. And so that's the fear
is you're like, it's already gone too far. There
is no way they're giving up the keys to the city
now. And so what's the next step? I'm not sure,
but it surely isn't peaceful probably. The next
step is all the billionaires trying to actually
now get off the planet because they just realized
how much of it they destroyed through food and
technology. So now we're trying to get off of
the planet. Yeah, and that's the whole thing.
Mars, really? Like the fact that people think
we're going to colonize another country in which
another planet, excuse me, with what resources?
I just feel like our money could be spent better
off here and talking about the very issues we're
talking about right now rather than trying to
go to a different planet. Silly. Well, look at
COVID. Again, this is another lesson. How many
weeks into the cars being off the road did the
air in LA clear up? The water in the Nile. Yes.
We saw it. The Venice canals. Yeah. And then
what do we do? Ah, fuck that lesson. Let's go
back to the way we did it before. The ozone layer
supposedly closed. They said, fuck the lesson
and buy more toilet paper. Do you remember that
too during COVID? The weird, like everyone started
buying toilet paper like rapid fire. It was ridiculous.
And that was based on apparently Australia got
their toilet paper from China, if I'm not mistaken.
So it was another complete country that had any
worry about toilet paper. But I'm sure the Europeans
and the Japanese were laughing because we just
press a button and it washes our ass for us.
That's like the big misunderstanding is like
most Americans have never traveled. Right. Like
the most technologically advanced place on this
planet is Japan. Like they've had heated toilets
for 20 years. I lived there 22 years ago. Years
ago, my fiancée lived in Japan for three years.
She came back from a trip, dropped her purse
on the subway, freaked out, went back, tried
to find it, never found it. When she got back
to her apartment, this was 12 years ago, 15 years
ago or something, or 20. Her purse was hanging
on her door. All the money was in there. It was
a note by the police. Someone took it to the
police station. The police brought it to her
house. It's like, you know, but, but what America
doesn't realize, and they don't like to hear
this, man, the most hated country in the entire
world by everyone is the United States. We are
so hated by the world, globally hated everywhere
I've ever been. Not because I was in the military,
but just, you get that sense. Like when we were
doing our honeymoon in Belize, the amount of
fucking entitled Americans treating the locals
there shitty was. like overwhelming at the airport
people with their bags just being rude just like
wow like americans don't travel well at all the
entitlement and we we really are quite despised
because of that attitude whether we're in the
philippines japan middle east europe wherever
it is man you are if you're american you're probably
not very well liked just by that and then people
don't like to hear that people want to disagree
with that but my experience has been like Granted,
I won the genetic lottery. I'm a white guy from
Iowa. But I've experienced not to the level –
I've never experienced my own people hating me
for my skin color. But I have experienced being
hated just because of who I am. And so it's like
that must be really, really horrible to be that
in your own country. Beyond words I can understand.
But I just look at it and go, why was it all
those years I deployed? Why was it like, oh,
they don't like us? So I think that, you know,
America is amazing. Don't get me wrong. Like
I said, I won the genetic lottery being born
here. But because of that, I think there's more
of a responsibility. Yeah. People say, you know,
why don't you go? And people haven't actually
said that to me, but you hear people when they,
you know, challenge things. They go, why don't
you just go back to where you came from? It's
like, well, that would be a bitch move, wouldn't
it? If you really love a country, you stay there
and you help it get better. That's why I'm firmly
standing here. In Japan, I experienced that myself.
I was a gaijin and there were lots of people
that loved us and there were times where I'd
be on a subway and an older Japanese person would
move because I'm sure they're still kind of feeling
the ripple effects of Nagasaki and Hiroshima
and that whole thing. You know, at the same time,
I there were times where they discovered I was
English, not American. And then they'd be more
friendly because there was a kind of, you know,
respect of manners and tradition and politeness
and all that. But we are an amazing nation. And
what our grandfathers or grandparents generation
did for so many countries around the world is
absolutely incredible. And I just feel like we
spit in the face of the greatest generation by
the way that we are now physically as well. How
would we respond to another World War II when
70 % of the country is clinically overweight?
And that's the military. I bet inside the military,
I bet it's 80 % or 90 % are so obese and overweight
they can't deploy. That's why I think we're going
to have to change the way that we fight because
we're not fit enough to do it. I think that's
the critical thing that I am certain of. Certain
things are kind of like a hypothesis. One thing
I am certain of is that our U .S. military is
the weakest it's ever been. It's never been.
Yeah, we could say maybe post -World War I, like
going into World War II where our tech was so
bad and so outdated. But as soon as Ford took
over and the United States, the pro -American
greatest generation machine started. Yes, maybe
it's war infrastructure, this, that, and the
other. But America really stepped up. And not
to say they didn't in 9 -11, but this is the
thing. I'd love to go back to a time machine.
I'd go back to New York prior to 9 -11. I'd grab
some New Yorkers and I would start spitting out
facts of their future. This is how it's going
to be here. This is the way it's going to be.
After this, like people are going to regress.
There would be New Yorkers that would throw hands
with you if you said like, yeah, New York's going
to fall back on its heels and not be so patriotic.
It's going to be the center of the demise, all
these sort of things. New Yorkers are going to
throw hands, right? Now it's like that is the
last place on this planet that I'll ever go in
this country is New York. And by far, without
question, the weakest, most cowardly fucking
pussy humans that we ever get are all on the
East Coast. That's what we get. We just get a
ton of trash that comes down and train with us
mostly. And so that's why we're moving to Alabama
because we're drawing a way different culture
from the South and Southwest, Southeast, way
different humans. We get a lot from the Midwest,
but we get the pockets of real cowardice humans
are the same places where you're Chicago, New
York, you're LA, like really, really shitty places.
I don't see those places. I don't see New York
ever getting better. There's 11 million people
in that size. There's no way. I don't know. Again,
please, please God. Hopefully I'm wrong. I'd
love to eat my words. Let me back up just a second,
James. I think when we're talking about the health
of the military, I'm saying the way that we fight
is going to have to change. Partly because I
think technology is moving too fast for actually
for humans, for some of us to even control or
gain control or somebody has your information
like instantly. I think that's going to cause
a really, really big problem, not just for individuals,
but in countries, you know, in a much bigger,
bigger scale. So I am, you know, we absolutely
need to continue training our military physically.
But I do think that the way that we train is
going to change based on the evolution of, you
know, war and also being unfit. And, you know,
when you said at the beginning that so many firefighters
or people are stressed out, they're working way
too many hours, they need this pushback. Well,
unfortunately, there's only so few people who
are fit enough to show up. You know, and that's
a big that's a big part of it, too. It's not
just that we're stressing out the people who
are actually capable of doing it. We don't have
enough people fit enough to do it. Yeah. Like
my last example, and I was like one of my closest
friends here, former Army contractor, the agency
got a real good dude, real good, hard, hard worker.
He works for the U .S. Army National Guard for.
youth youth here like last chance youth last
chance youth you know and he works his ass off
but he's around all these government workers
that never show up on time like he's working
67 hours or 80 hours a week the staff is like
these kids are like these are all violent kids
you know all murderers all terror like this if
you don't figure this shit out you're going to
prison forever 14 to 16 year old kids And the
example of all the cadres, they're all a bunch
of fat farmers. They got out, got their veterans
preference, took their government job, don't
have to show up, can't fire them. And he's working
all the jobs for them because they're taking
advantage of him. His entire leadership, too,
are all retired master chiefs, retired this,
and they don't fucking do anything. You're like,
okay, so you see these people, like she's saying,
that really want to go help. And then he jumps
in this job, and he's been doing it for a year
and a half. He's like. I'm worn out, man. I can't
be there for the kids. Instead of actually giving
him a raise or doing something that he deserves,
a promotion, whatever it is. They just take advantage
of him more because they know he's going to show
up because they know he gives a darn because
they know he's also the only one that these kids
are going to listen to. He looks the part. I
post them all on Instagram. A big dude, a good
friend of mine, like real clean cut, like really
cares about being like, I'm going to be there
and be a good mentor for these kids. Does all
this extracurricular form stuff. And just, I'm
like, man, like we, it's those people that you're
like. why is he not in charge? You know, like,
and, and, and it's cause he cares so much, you
know? And it's like, that's, it's a, it, it's
a, it's a frustrating thing. And, you know, but
there's just an endless few of us that are going
to keep pushing. And I mean, I keep saying I'm
going to walk away from this job, but maybe I
won't ever do it. Cause I, because the people
that keep coming to the door really, really are
awesome humans, you know, and they do care. So
I feel like I'd be turning them away. Well, let's
flip it around. So we were acutely aware of how
many can't. And I was actually walking out the
Publix today, the grocery store. And again, you
know, a lot of people kind of shuffling around,
even if they're not overweight. You can just
see from the lack of vasculature or anything
that that person probably hasn't done a lot of
movement. And, you know, you think about that
for every bad decision that the average person
has made, an operator, a firefighter, a police
officer has had to keep on making good decisions.
So they've sacrificed the cakes and the sodas
and the, you know, whatever, the buckets of chicken
wings over and over and over again to be able
to do the job. And so, you know, I don't think
people think about that. Like they owe them a
debt for simply staying in shape in an environment
that set you up to fail. But what I also hear,
and this is what's encouraging to me, and it'd
be good to get your take on this. People have
said to me that the recruits that are showing
up, police, fire, military. You know, you have
the ones that we're talking about, but in your
world, obviously, you're talking about a much
higher caliber of warfighter anyway. I'm hearing
that they're actually well prepared, that they're
actually probably a better athlete than maybe,
you know, 20, 30 years ago when you were recruiting.
So talk to me about that side, what you're seeing.
Yeah, go ahead. That's an accurate statement,
what we see. We've got some examples probably
to talk about. Mandy, the same one. No, you go
ahead. Mine was just going to be, we didn't have
this bubble. There's this frustration. It's probably
been about four to six months. We did a green
team day. We had at one time 16 operators in
there, and they were either one platoon or none.
And so they were talking. I was just getting
to know him. I knew some of the guys. Some of
them were new. Like, hey, bring a friend. We're
going to do this good talk about sleep and things
like that. And they all came. And we were just
talking like we are now. And one of the guys
was like, yeah, man, my chief yesterday, he was
like, he just got back from a trip. And he's
like, yeah, my fucking master chief and chief
were like, you fucking new guys, none of you
guys want to, all you guys want to do is get
fucking eight hours of sleep and lift weights.
None of you guys want to fuck hookers anymore.
I'm like, yeah, that's. yeah, that's kind of
what we're, we're here for. I'm here to go train
because I carry a gun for my, my living and guns
are made to take human life. Like, but that's,
that's what it is on the white side SEAL teams.
And that was my experience too. It's like drink,
fight, fuck. Like that was the motto, the inside
motto of SEAL team five is right when you walked
on the stairwell, it said drink, fight, fuck,
you know? And it was like, shit's got to change.
I think some of the things that we're seeing
too, James is, You know, these guys that are
willing to kind of question why are we doing
it this way and not this way and being physically
prepared to go in like that is going to be really
beneficial if they're going to make a change
from from the inside. As far as like their physical
preparedness, the guys that we see, you know,
on a day to day basis do show up with some pretty,
I mean, outstanding, outstanding numbers, you
know, and so we know that if. if they're coming
to us with the physicality, it's not that they're
going to have to question. It's not the physicality
that they're going to have to question. It's
the, what are we, you know, should we be doing
it this way? Is there a more efficient way? And
yes, I do want to go home to my wife. And yes,
I would prefer to have a meal somewhere else
and not here, you know, and no, I'm not going
to go out tonight and drink. Like I'm going to
take care of my body so I can show up every day
and, you know, figure this out. Yeah. And I think
that that's what we're seeing is, is. as technology
is advancing real athletes that are coming from
college and life they're ready for it they're
hearing it like technology's allowed this expanded
their wisdom and knowledge to understand what
we're saying because you can learn much faster
if you use tech right appropriately so we're
getting people that a little bit more readily
available to him for like hey tell me tell me
more then it's not just like they're just trying
to do more work their skill level is higher But
what you're seeing is you're seeing that they're
creating this massive gap between the average,
right? Like we've had like one of the guys that
we trained in special forces, he was in the 400
hurdle finals for the US trials, right? And he's
killing, like he's destroying the Q course. And
so you're like, that's like. But he calls us
and he's like, man, this is the most underwhelming
thing I've ever been a part of. These fucking
fat, lazy instructors. And he goes, how did like,
it's like 65 % of the people in his class is
like, how did the fuck they get in here? Like
before even day one starts, everyone's out of
shape and fat except for 20%. It's just like,
you know, like when I showed up to Bud's, like
I was like, where's all the super fit dudes?
You know, they, they, there was, it was big class,
188 of us started, 22 of us finished. And you're
like, oh, and then it's like, I got to SEAL team
five and there's a bit more of them, but then
there's still like people just kind of sitting
back. And when I got to the command at SEAL team
six, I was like, oh, okay. We've collected them
all in one place. Okay. I gotcha. And so what,
what my frustration kind of is, is that some
of the skill we're talking about better eating,
better sleep, better stress management. A lot
of that stuff we dealt with on the inside with
float tanks. Psychedelics were shit. I've known
about that for six, 17 years. Some of those things
on the inside are very progressive and they were
being used. Look at all this benefit, but it
never got shared. The tactics didn't get shared.
All the tactics that we developed because people
died. The SEAL teams, guys, I come in because
I have like training firearms in the building.
We go through stuff and they're like, they haven't,
all the blood, all the tactics that we wrote
in blood, like for a decade, they didn't get
any of it. Guys are buying and training using
old tactics, old gear. Like guys in the SEAL
teams having to buy their own fucking body armor.
Navy SEALs, Navy SEALs are having, I had to buy
my own body armor at SEAL Team 5. navy seals
so you take that for no our navy seals are having
to spend their own money to buy their own body
armor right now why is that why why is that knowledge
not being shared and money right we can send
billions of dollars to corrupt governments but
we can't outfit our seal teams our navy seals
like we had a bunch of new guys come in we were
training them we train them well a couple of
them had to go they had to leave for the day
and go like north north here a couple hours to
go shoot Well, they got there. There was no bullets.
They didn't have any funding. So they drove all
the way up there to go shoot. SEAL teams had
no bullets, no body armor, no bullets. So that
is why I'm frustrated because so many of us deployed
year, multiple times a year, year after year,
after year, after year to develop tactics, to
help make decisions and help drive decisions
for our community. And none of it got disseminated.
Did it used to? Has there been a drop off? No,
that's what I'm saying. It's like I'm looking
at it and going like none of this got pushed
back. Like, you know, we have like not that in
this setting, but like one of the biggest rules
in a firearm in our world is like if I have a
gun presented, I'm going to go through a door.
I don't break my gun down because that's where
I would get shot. You never break your gun down
going through a doorway. But that's if you go
on a CQB websites and all these tactics, you
have people always breaking their guns down.
And they're current operators. That's rule number
one, man. You don't break a gun down in a doorway.
And so the basic, basic, basic of the basic isn't
even being disseminated. So then your movement
tactics aren't there. They don't have the guns.
They don't have body armor. They don't have what
they need. And they're frustrated because they
have put everything into this, just like I did
and so many guys did before. And when they get
in and they put all that emotion in, you're like,
well, why would I stay in? And so the mass exodus
of the SEAL teams is happening. Mass exodus.
There's no bonuses. There's none of that's happening
because they're like, well, that's it. When we
get into a conflict other than war and get another
war, all of a sudden like, well, we need more
manning and start throwing bonuses at people.
Instead, now when we are not involved in massive
conflicts, we can start licking our wounds, learn
how to sleep better, learn how to deal with all
the stress that was just placed upon us for two
wars. the last 20 years. But so many of us have
gotten out. The military leadership is not who's
best. It's who's left. And same in the police
department. Same in the fire department. It's
like, hey, all those lessons learned left the
community with us. Because every 18 months, there's
a new strength coach. There's a new dietitian.
There's a new somebody that goes in, takes the
job for a month, quits so they can put on their
resume, train Navy SEALs. Right now, they're
opening up a training, a JSOC facility in Romania
for two years. They want a two -year strength
coach in Romania, unaccompanied, no family. It's
like, what the fuck are we doing in Romania?
It's close to Ukraine. There's your answer. So
it's like we're doing all these things that we've
resolved, but the subject matter experts have
all gotten out and started doing it on their
own because this is where we can get traction.
Because all the stuff that I did on the inside,
I can bring it out here and give it to guys younger.
And as they work through the community, they
own it. And that's what we want to educate them
that way through all these practices that they're
hungry for. This is what we're seeing in the
fire service too. People will say, oh, we're
still getting people. We're still hiring. I'm
like, yeah, but who are you hiring? It used to
be thousands of us trying to get a handful of
positions. Now, you know, and this is all over
the country. Yeah, we've got 100 positions and
we had, you know, 150 on the list. That means
you took two thirds of the list. You used to
take 3 % of the list, 10 % of the list. And then
on the other side, so that's recruitment and
then retention as well. There's more and more
and more people not even getting to that retirement
age. And that lack of knowledge has created an
environment where a lot of fire departments,
50 percent of them have five years or less. So
that fire engine, in theory, could show up to
your family's worst day with a couple of brand
new, you know, rookies, probies in the back,
an engineer that just got, you know, got to ride
up after a year or two. And then the lieutenant
maybe has got four. Yeah, that's terrifying because
they haven't seen anything yet, you know. And
so and I, you know, I was very lucky that my
last. Let's say my favorite department that I
worked in, my lieutenant, my captain had 33 years
in the front seat, just him. And so that is the
difference. And like you said, when you walk
out the door, it's not just a human being with
a heartbeat that you can replace with an 18 -year
-old. It's decades and decades of experience
and training. and awareness and knowledge of
red flags that you just left you know let walk
out the back door and then when you factor in
the mental health conversation that organizational
betrayal is now a massive layer to the addictions
the alcoholism and the suicide yep and then when
we talk about the reality that it's a multi -faceted
issue everyone wants to suit but like like like
Just compartmentalize everything and say, no,
these are all, these are all, they're not interconnected
at all. They all are interconnected. And, and
I think that that's the frustration is because
the person that's at, that's doing most of the
work actually physically enduring all, most of
the stress, like they're going to do it anyway.
Right. And so it's like, you need leadership
to recognize the doers and go, Hey man, we, you're
not working 80 hours this week. You're working
30. And then I'm going to put you on dispatch
a little bit to work that a bit, and then I'm
going to ease you back in. You know what I mean?
Or whatever it might be that's reasonable for
that service. Because in the military, it keeps
saying, we're going to come back and do reintegration.
All these combat deployments, nothing, man. They
just wanted to have a check in the block. It's
like, let's send you to this stupid hotel in
Williamsburg, Virginia with a bunch of screaming
kids and strangers and say, hey, downregulate.
Welcome home. right because six days ago you
killed nine people like it'll be okay you know
what i'm saying like when you start dealing with
that and the people that are saying that they're
like hey man like when's the last time you encountered
this trauma this this this situation well no
but i've read all about it my my my my my professor
that i worked my phd dissertation on was did
35 years of clinical bullshit research like awesome
man like that's that's not helping at all not
at all Right. And I, and I think what we need,
what we're getting, what I think what's happening
is you're getting a bunch of people like you
and I, that aren't just being a strength coach
or going like, they're actually going, I'm going
to be a psych. I'm going to impact because they
were really, really let down there. Like no one
can seem to put me together. All they wanted
to throw through is throw pills at me. So when
I find somebody to put me together, I was like,
Oh my God, like, okay, this is, this is super
doable and I can share this. And so I think that
that's the problem is you have people of leadership
that have no way to disseminate wisdom because
they've never experienced it. And again, it's
like that side. Again, it's like you're going
to be an administrator and these things that
like I get that. But as an administrator, you
have to be really good observational of how your
people are. You really got to manage them because
people won't manage themselves in those stressful
environments very well. So I. I hope that this
middle ground drives a bunch more of us into
these clinical places where these clinicians
have been. My assistant team leader in red for
a bunch of years, he's about to finish his PhD
in mental therapy and things like that in San
Diego, whatever that is, be a psychiatrist. That
guy, if he came back in and started working with
the community, I would have so much respect,
but it made the question is, is would that guy
have the emotional bandwidth to go in and deal
with the dipshits? And I don't know, like, and
that's like, there's no way in hell I would ever
go back into the military and be a strength coach
within the military. There's no way because I
saw it already. I saw that they have no decisions.
They can't, they're all under the thumb of the
damn CEO and the master chiefs that are completely
clueless. And so it's like, where do we affect
them? You know? And the last thing is like, I
was privy to a conversation with Marcus the trail
years ago and we were on a deployment. Our master
chief was talking to him and he's like, cause
Marcus really wanted to stay in. He had so many
health issues. He wanted to stay in. And he's
like, listen, man, you are going to get medically
retired. And the master chief goes, Marcus goes,
man, I just, I just really want to help, man.
I'm stuck. I want to be helpful. I want to do
all these sorts of things. And the master chief
goes, listen, Marcus, he goes. If you really,
really want to help the community, get out and
do it. And it's a weird thing because you're
like, how the fuck am I going to help the thing?
And when I got out and I started my first gym
and people started coming to us to training and
then I got out and we created performance first.
And you're like, that's it. We've got to plant
some really good seeds that are better than me.
that are stronger than me, that don't have the
moral hiccups that I had, that don't have, like,
that's what we want. Like, I look at my son,
I'm like, I want him to be better than me. I
want my son to recognize the things about me
he doesn't like, so he doesn't have to be that.
I want the operators, the kids that come in and
go, you know, Jeff, like, you're a great coach,
but some of your, like, I'm not going to take
that with me. It's like, good, don't, you know?
And I hope, and especially because Catherine's
here with our business, we always joke. I'm just
the handler. People come to see me. I'm just
the handler. But they leave realizing how much
more good they can do if they adhere to her mentorship.
Because guys like me, like, hey, you're a fireballer.
Those guys are going to go do it anyway. They're
going to jump in the fire and go through the
obstacle course and go through buds and be like,
yeah, I fucking did it. I knew I would. I'd be
like, yeah, I know. Now you need to go see her.
There's missing this really, really needing –
there needs to be some feminine energy in our
military that isn't camouflaged with masculine
bravado. We need extremely feminine, feminine
warriors that go kick some ass. We need extremely
masculine guys that kick some ass. We need a
bunch of people in the middle to do what the
fuck they're going to do. But we need to bring
the masculine and the feminine together because
that's where it's in a household. Like what's
the happiest, healthiest home? It's when the
mom and dad, the spouse, it's that connection.
And I don't know how to propose that in our military.
But instead of our women trying to be men in
our military, we just fucking need some women
that want to be women and men that want to be
men. And I don't know. Well, hopefully, again,
like this middle ground grows. It's interesting
because I've used this analogy a lot recently.
When you think about our generation and how we
were raised, it was the Stallones, the Schwarzeneggers,
the stoic, you know, bodybuilder and the faux
stoicism of the bodybuilder. And that was projected.
This is what a manly man is. And then we all
know now, of course it's not. But when you look
at what brought us into uniform, it was kindness
and compassion. It was that feminine side. And
of course, when you're in a gunfight where I'm
fighting fire, there's no time for unicorns and
rainbows at that point. But then after is when
you give yourself that same compassion and kindness.
It's when you work on your breath work and your
meditation and your stretching and all the things
that are going to downregulate. And that, I think,
sets you up for a healthy transition out. If
you're just this white circle, you think that
you're the fucking Robocop. And that's your identity.
You're going to have a, you know, a fall from
grace when you come out the back door. But if
you understand that you've always been a courageous,
selfless servant of, you know, whether it's a
warrior, whether it's a responder, that you put
on the uniform for a while. It's a costume. It's
Halloween. It's all it was. You did a job. You
wore a specific clothing for that point. You
know, if you're in the fire service, you wear
a helmet from the 1930s. Um, and then, you know,
you, uh, you know, you progress out, but you
carry on that mission. I think this is what's
interesting. What you did and what I did with
this is that very thing. Like if you can't fix
it from the inside, fuck it. I'm going to fix
it from the outside then. And then you realize
how much more freely you can speak. And it's
not about talking shit. It's about dragging problems
into the spotlight and then finding solutions
for them. James, I think that with the guys that
show up at the door are also looking for change
and looking for, you know, this is the way to
empower people to then go into the organization
to then go into create change because they can
see, you know, it's not happening from the inside.
So coming to outside sources, like I had mentioned
before, whether it's nutrition or, you know,
meditation or certainly physical training, people
are coming to the outside to get, you know, to
get better. Because on the inside, it doesn't
exist. And that's where people like people scratch
their head and go like, what do you mean this
sort of service doesn't exist on the inside?
It's like it doesn't. There are no strength coaches
with progressive ideas because they're not allowed.
Like because they're at complete mercy of whoever
officer is over them. Like if you don't like
it's like a really good friend of mine that is
an athletic trainer or someone is the athletic
director at a major like basketball program.
He was a strength coach for years. He wasn't
allowed to squat them. So he's like, well, fuck,
if I'm not going to be able to do my job, let
me become the AD. He became the AD. Now he's
running the strength coaches and he's letting
them do the work. And so that's what we're missing.
And that's where society really misunderstands
the role of what our military is. Because all
we do... Exactly. We have so many people that
are in a position that have never done it. And
it's hard to get people to respect up. And it's
not that we can't have respect up for people
that haven't done the job. But we see the people
of leadership when we say, hey, why are we doing
it this way? It's never a give and take. And
I get that sometimes orders are orders. But we're
talking about down regulation. We're not talking
about mission. But, and so we got to stop pretending
like all these things are mission directives.
We can't treat people and sleep recovery and
diet. Like it's a mission. Like no one, like
nobody wants to fuck it. Like, it's funny. It's
like, I tell people like, I never, yes, I cursed
as a child. Yes. But I never had tattoos. I never
missed school. I was literally an altar boy until
I was like, I never missed church. My mom would
not let me miss church. Like it was. On swim
meets, this is not an exaggeration. We never
had a vacation because we were swimming. Like
if it was in the middle of swimming, like I was
made the finals on four events, but it was on
a Saturday. I didn't swim those events. My mom
took me to church and I missed my events. So
like I grew up in a very sort of strict bubble.
And I joke people, I was like, I joined the military
to get tattoos, get a beard and kill people.
That's what I, and not in like in all that kind
of happened. You're like, that's pretty extreme,
you know, but. But it's a joke because you're
like, we don't want – we're not asking for choir
boys. We're not asking for altar boys necessarily
in this case. But we've just shunted all of these
things to like everyone's got to be shiny and
perfect. And like I don't know many team guys
that came in that were like shiny and perfect.
We're pretty flawed in a good way, you know,
and that's what kind of makes us like go a little
bit crazy. or makes us a little bit crazy and
lets us go, go for it. And I think we need that.
But we also need leadership to recognize that
when I was complaining, it wasn't because I didn't
want to be there. I was complaining because I
know it can be better because of the people.
Like that's the frustration. There's so many
good people in our professions and I want so
much for them. And I don't see it enough. Yeah,
I agree completely. I mean, even the way that
we are screened at the front door, I was very
honest, the very pre -test that I did, the very
first one, and they screwed it up and threw it
in my face. And I was like, oh, oh, so you have
to lie to become a firefighter. Got it. And then
I told him, the choir boy, you know, oh, yeah,
no, no, no. Yeah, no, I would never touch that
stuff. Oh, I would never do anything dangerous.
That's what created me to want to go into burning
buildings and hang off buildings and ropes. Right.
So it's, it's, it's so, so crazy, but you know,
Go ahead. No, no, please go. But these, you know,
when processed, this is the thing. If you have
stuff that's buried down as bad when you're young,
that needs to be worked through. It can definitely
be a fracture in your foundation otherwise. But
those struggles, and we're talking about the
word trauma being used. I like the word struggles.
When you've worked through them and you found
these tools, those become strengths. That is
why you are a great operator or a great firefighter
or a great cop. Most of us have been through
these things. And it also makes you a very empathetic
and compassionate, especially in the first responder
professions where you really need to be. We are
literally maybe the only beacon of light for
some of these homeless individuals, some of these
sex workers that are being pimped out everywhere.
We're it. So if you're a piece of shit and you're
treating these people poorly, then shame on you.
We are. It's such like you said, it's such a
beautiful calling, such a beautiful community.
And just like you, I just get so angry because
they fucking deserve better. Their families deserve
better. They leave their families to go protect
strangers. Some of them die protecting strangers.
And then the same profession is called racist
and all this other stuff. Like we owe so much
to those men and women that we have to fight
for an environment that creates longevity and
performance, not this toxic leadership. that
creates divorce and suicide yeah yeah i mean
i it's we with it's interesting because we know
the truth and i'm just again like i'm waiting
for the truth to be heard by because i know i
i this is what i do know about america is i know
about humans and we saw it 9 -11 man like i remember
where i was at september 12th i was in the deep
south And not in it is, you know, the deep South
is a surprise. Like it, it's not, it's, it's
one of the least racist places I've been. It
currently exists for sure everywhere, but even
just like the social divide of not knowing somebody
on September 12th, when I was walking the campus,
I remember it vividly thinking I got back to
my, I got back to my apartment and all three
of my roommates from Canada and like, Oh my God,
like, this is crazy. Like you're not joining
the Navy. Are you? I'm like, of course I am.
Fuck you. I am. I'm absolutely am now. But like
the thought was like that, you know, there are
so many people out there that don't understand
it and that's okay. But when it's time to go,
the people are going to go. And we want to make
sure that I think what my fear is, is that because
of people starting to wake up, we get it all
the time. We have so many people that are afraid
to join the military, not because of them, because
they know that they're going to encounter. somewhere
in their service that they're going to have to
be real patient because they're like in this
log jam of idiots. You know what I mean? Like,
and it's, once you get that along through the
log jam of idiots, you're like, okay, now I,
cause I do, I really do think the military law
enforcement police, it's the, it's the, it's
the energy in this country. It's the professions
of the country that is capable of moving that
needle. I wish I knew how to get all three of
us and then your civil service. You're talking
like all the groups of us that are serving on
a capacity to make this world a bit better. Maybe
we're all collectively doing it in a different
way, but I hope, man. I really do. I really hope.
I wrote a book last year. And I am going to make
it into a TV show. It's got all the elements.
It shows my profession, what we actually do.
It shows the world through our lens. So just
like I touched on the homelessness and the gang
membership and all the things. But then there's
a multi -generational trauma story because the
lead guy, when you meet him, he's already spiraling
down. Then he goes on this growth journey and
learns about his father and his grandfather,
which takes you all the way back to World War
II France. And then you go forward again. And
I had this kind of epiphany just the other day.
In 1984, the book and modern day, the screen
is used for propaganda. Yeah. Well, what a beautiful
tool to flip it around. Educate the people and
tell a story that will be as captivating as the
Tiger King, but a lot more nutritious. And you
get people to question things. So I've got this
kind of grandiose plan for. you know just sowing
it's all it is seeds just sowing seeds so you
go off on your own rabbit hole journey but why
not use the very tool that's been used to divide
us to bring us back together again and i and
i think you're right like it's like katherine
said to me once she's like you know like one
of my breath breath practices she had me doing
when we have some flowers in bloom and she's
like hey focus on the flowers it's like for right
now and she's like what do you see in the flower
i'm like okay i'm like i was going along with
them like i see you know they're pink and she's
like well what's but what's in there too and
i was like she goes it's darkness black she goes
you can't have light without the black you can't
have the beauty without this and like i think
that that's the hard balance that we find is
i'm really really good at smashing shit and being
sneaky and then do it but but but what i need
what i know i need is something to balance that
Um, and I, and I know there's a balance. I just,
I just don't know how to plug the balance in
for somebody else necessarily. You know, everyone
has their, their, their trauma and their thing
and whatever you want to call it. And one of
my closest friends that I operated with for years
and years and years, like she mentioned called
the other day, he got invited to a nonprofit
dinner by one of the gold star moms had good
interaction, but she kept persisting. You must
still be under trauma. no no no no not this guy
not me like i have my other issues but my my
does not at all come from my time as a seal it's
i've already handled that and i think i handled
that because i was around really good mentors
really great leaders really great team leaders
really great people to help me be that tactical
guy but like you said that white circle that
ideology when i got out i didn't i didn't know
what to make of it and uh I think that that's,
I hope, man, I, what I've never really seen is
what you and Catherine kind of talking about
is like bringing in what the community needs.
Like this, like they needs to be somebody that,
and that's the thing is like, it's easy for me
to do that with my wife. I trust her. I totally
trust her. To build that trust for those operators
is not, not great because I. I can tell you right
now, like I've been turned. When I was at SEAL
Team 6, I went to go see the therapist twice.
I was having issues, right? And both times, when
I started spilling my issues, it got to the point
where they're like, hey, man, like that's nice
and all, but I can't. If this doesn't have to
do with SEAL Team 6 and the command or whatever,
like that's not, we can't, I can't help you.
Like I'm only this, the psychiatrist there straight
up said, we are only here to protect the CO.
And the command. Anything beyond that, you've
got to find resources outside. And so even on
the inside being turned away, right? And I'm
like, I thought that was normal. Like, okay,
I got to go deal with it. But do it on your own.
But I did it now. I look at it and I go, they're
not there to help. They're there to protect someone's
name. And I think that that's where it'll be
hard. It's like you'll never. The way that the
system is now, you're never going to get anyone
in there with a really, really empathetic heart.
They'll never get cast the gate. They'll be,
they'll be cast as a fucking weirdo or something.
Right. And if you haven't played the game of
PhD, you've wrote your PhD and fucking operator
syndrome or something stupid like that. And now
you're going to like, you're the expert at for
what? Like, how are you the expert? Because you
went to school. That's silliness. That's absolute
silliness. So, um, Again, I'd love to eat my
words. I hope I do. Going back to the recruits,
one of the things that I hear from the more ignorant
of leaders, chiefs and administrators is, well,
these young people don't want to work these days.
And what I'm seeing and hearing from the good
leaders is that these young people are very in
touch with. The things that are most important.
Washington Times, was it Washington Times? Wall
Street Journal, excuse me, did an article recently
on how Gen Zs are actually leaning into the trades
now. Because the same technology they have in
their hand, they Google, is it worth going to
college? And then it comes back, well, if you're
not going to be a doctor or a lawyer or an architect
or the other places that you need this academic
route, then no, it's not. So they're going, oh,
okay. Well, then if you Google, is it healthy
to be a firefighter, they're getting the same
results. They're seeing for 56, 80 hour work
weeks, divorces, suicides, addictions, testosterone
in the toilet, all the things. And there, from
what I can tell, being raised by our generation
and hearing, you know, the people in our echo
chambers talking about health and sleep and all
these things, they're going, that sounds a bit
shit. I think I'm going to go be a welder because
I don't want my job to cost me my freaking marriage
and my relationship with my kids. That's insane.
I don't want it to cost my mental health. Who
would do that? And so what I'm seeing in the
fire service is that you have a lot of these
young people that absolutely want to be in uniform.
But we as a profession have done a massive disservice
by breaking down our people and these young people
are seeing it. So in my profession specifically,
I know that if we change, if we go to this healthier
work week, if we put fitness standards back where
they should have been, well, not even back, we
put them in. where they should have always been.
If you have culturally competent clinicians embedded
into a department, these young people are then
going to start flocking to this profession because
now we're telling them we actually give a fuck
about you. What is your perspective of this young
generation, their being in touch with the mental
and physical health and the relationship side
and how that affects the desire to wear a uniform
through your eyes in 2025? Well, first, I think
that if we do have people who are more aware
or who are pushing back or who are wanting to
be in a positive relationship and eat the healthy
foods and do the things, I think it's just going
to enable them to harness when they need to be
violent, harness when they need to show violence,
harness when they need to be the warrior of action
in that way. But if they're willing to take the
other side of it, when you see the kinder side
or the compassionate side or the more gentle
side, you're actually then now you are treating
the person as a whole. And I do think that this
younger side, like you said, is getting more
interested in trade or food or farming and all
those kinds of things. It's just going to able
them to question it more and to push back more
to make that kind of change, you know? Yeah,
it'll proliferate. Proliferate. Jesus, I can't
say it. it'll improve it'll increase so it'll
it'll it'll that that's what will disseminate
like because that's that's big part of the balance
right like you say your ferrari engine is only
as good as its brakes We got totally away from
the trade and just being so used to the, you
know, revving the engine and just redlining it.
And now, you know, there's enough information
on how to take that gas pedal off. It's just
a matter of actioning that side of it. Because
I think it's going to take some time to kind
of say like, hey, like, who are the decision
makers in fire? Who are the decision makers?
Like I'm saying, like the pulse, right? For us
in the military, it's like E5 to E7. that's the
bulk that's the pulse those are the people doing
the work that's the kind of thing you're still
in that phase and like there's a lot of impression
to be made um and i think it's going to take
a while it's going to take us five or six years
i tell guys all the time our classes we've been
doing for four years we're kind of like our gut
feeling our mind is like about seven years from
this time we start we'll have enough time people
in that is starting to gain rank there'll be
some guys with rank and then we'll all the guys
we train we'll send them in as new guys be like
i know your chief i trained him four years ago
And he, I know that chief is, is health conscious
and training conscious and oh, and his sister
platoon is as well. And now you're going to start
getting guys that have experienced good training,
good eating. And then, and then they go in the
military and then they experience violence, all
these sort of things. I go, wow, these guys have
got a better balance. It's going to, it'll allow
just exactly what Catherine said. It will allow
for us to be more raw because we'll go. Because
we'll have our mentors that are in E7 maybe and
then we'll have some younger guys that have been
practicing it and then maybe they'll be hiring
somebody, not just strength coaches, dietitians
and athletic trainers. They'll be like, hey,
we really do have available to you if you want
to do meditation, breath work, yoga, whatever
it might be. There's something that is like you've
identified that thing that allows you in your
rest period if you're off for two to three days.
That's what's mandated. Your command is going,
you will. We've scheduled you to go to get a
massage. a float, and then you're going to go
do something else in these three days. And that's
going to, instead of going to the range one day
and go to this, you're going to spend three days
on the command's dime to go do these things.
Because there is float tanks at SEAL Team 6,
or there were, because I installed them. I don't
know if they're there anymore, right? It's like,
okay, are there, is there IR saunas? There isn't.
Now, if all those modalities are there, do they
know how to use them? Or are they just adding
more stress? It's like, hey, I'm going to go
do some hot yoga to downregulate. But you just
came back from a big deployment that that hot
stretch is too much for the nervous system. And
so I think that as people are learning how to
downregulate by authentically good coaches and
mentors, they'll be able to last. Their patience
will be better. Their health will be better.
And what we'll start seeing is people that don't
take health and wellness conscious will fall
off like they do already. And then you'll really
see. The people that were hoping we plant those
seeds within seven to eight years to be like,
you're the leaders. And then they'll change.
But I don't know. It's still a big wish. But
I hope, you know, hope we can affect them. What
was interesting recently, I had this realization
because obviously I've interviewed people like
yourself, you know, many, many times now, whether
they're in the university setting or they're
actually specifically embedded with the tactical
athletes. When I hear people that are coaching,
you know, whether it's the Thor 3 program or,
you know, what you're doing, Performance First,
it's this focus of squeezing out performance
in, you know, or operate, especially on the tier
one level. But when you look at Police and Fire,
when strength coaches come in, nutritionists
come in, it's, well, let's try and get you to
die a little bit less. And so there's this chasm.
between where we are and where we should be like
if i had to respond to the hotel next to my last
fire station it's a basically 30 story hotel
it's 28 but or 29 but there was a ballroom so
easily 30 the gear that i would need to ascend
to actually fight a fire is 100 pounds on my
back so it's 100 pound you know encumbered 30
story climb And then you go to work. And so it's
so crazy to me that because we've allowed this
to deteriorate, we're just, I mean, literally
a lot of the conversations in the wellness space
where we just get the firefighters to walk. I
had one where they taught us how to make a bowl
of oatmeal and they walked around the station
three times. That was their wellness. I shit
you not. And this was a local agency that trains
athletes, like Olympic athletes. So this is what
we've also got to realize. And I think that that's
the problem is like we've, we've to that point,
we as professionals are, they've, they've, they've
allowed the dumbing down. Like we're using terminology
that isn't accurate. We're using practices that
aren't. And also, James, like just like just
to kind of harp on what you said to people like
they're just trying to get the check in the block.
Like, yes, I got to spend time with these firefighters.
And I think I got to teach them something to
mark this block that they got continuing education
or whatever it is. You know, you're not nobody's
getting anything out of it except for just wasting
more time. Yeah. So that no, no, no. Right. Because
she's right. Because like it was all firsthand
experience. Like we volunteered for the police
department here for years. And then we did their,
their like once or a couple of times a year,
we'd go in there and do their in -service that
had to be health and wellness. We give the whole
speech on eat right, exercise, right. And it
was always, always a leadership and they never
disseminate it. And then the last time we did
it, both her and I were like, but before we went
in, we're like, this is going to be our last
time. We're going to light these fuckers up.
And we did. And then we got lied straight to
our face by the SWAT commander. I'll email you.
We got you. We got you the books. Lies, lies,
lies, lies, lies. And it wasn't even about us.
It wasn't about the money grab. We volunteered
for five years twice a week. Right. And it's
like, no, we're not even asking for money. We're
just we want to make our home better, our city
better, safer. Why don't you just implement the
things that we did? No. Not going to do it. No,
we're good. We got the block checked. Now all
the leadership got their block checked. Now they
can send an email. That's all they did. They
just sent an email and they sent like a running
video. Be YouTube. The police chief here just
sent an email and a running video to go. We don't
need to go to performance first anymore. Here's
the video. Here's no shit. The police chief sent
a video to the department wide. So they didn't
have to come train with us. Yeah, it's insane.
And they think about, you know, like I've pointed
out so often. My profession could be, as I said,
deep sleep. It's not a deep sleep, a partial
sleep at three in the morning, wake up to the
alarms, slide down a two -story pole, get into
the back of a rig, navigate traffic, trying to
kill someone on the roads to a fire, pull off
a ladder, throw it, go through a second floor
building, a window, excuse me, do a search, find
a child, navigate them back out. And now the
ambulance is stuck behind a freight train. So
now you've got to doff your gear and do a pediatric
algorithm, you know, cardiac algorithm on this
child. These are the people that we're like,
we don't need a fitness standard. The 56 -hour
workweek, 80 -hour workweek is fine. It's so
far from where we need to be. And then we wonder
why we see, you know, these just... nauseating
videos of police officers just getting ragdolled
by you know arguably small people and you know
the the foot pursuits where they don't even try
they just you know watch them run away and it's
like well that's all well and good if it's a
car thief but what if they're running towards
a kindergarten with a knife yeah it's inexcusable
to to not have the high bar of fitness but we
have broken them down so much we can't even ask
them to have that bar at the moment because Almost
no one can sustain that in an 80 -hour work week,
not sleeping three or four times a week. In so
many ways, it's unthinkable. But it all comes
back to, wait a minute, we've learned all these
lessons. All of these lessons are written in
blood. They've been researched time and time
again to nauseam in dozens and dozens of institutions
worldwide. That's why I kind of look at it like
I... I don't, I mean, if you, I mean, whether
you like to read history or not, or the Bible
and go that far back, like humans have always
done one thing magnanimously well, treated each
other like shit. And like, I just see like that
trajectory. That's all I see. You know, I don't,
and God, God, I hope I'm wrong. I really do.
Because what we end up seeing, there's just too
many people that are suffering. There's just
too many, you know, and it just doesn't have
to be that way. So I guess we're just going to
keep making that argument until somebody, I don't
know, somebody changes it, I suppose. Yeah. I've
said this, I was reflecting recently, you know,
we always look at evolution as far as innovation,
you know, fire, the wheel, you know, the industrial
revolution, the computer. I saw one of those
Cybertrucks with Elon. Thank you, Elon Musk on
the back. I'm like, well, that's definitely a
step back because those are like a fridge with
wheels. But aside from that, you know, this is
the kind of trajectory that we look. All humans
are evolving. And I disagree. If you look at
the dark history, you know, thousands of years
ago, we were absolutely horrendous to each other,
you know, en masse. So I would say that the evolution
of man is kindness and compassion. And so every
time there's someone at a helm dividing and forcing,
you know, tyranny. I mean, I think Gaza is a
perfect example. I don't know why people can't
just have the balls to stand up and say this
is wrong. The women and children are being executed
on a fucking daily basis and starved to death
like those kind of things. That's regressing
us. That's sending us back. Like if we if it's
not kindness and compassion at the root of something.
And, you know, World War Two, there was, you
know, they were trying to stop the genocide of
that, you know, against the Jewish people at
that point. So there are times where, yes, you
have to fight for kindness and compassion. But
this apathy that we have now. is allowing us
to sit in my opinion to literally be regressed
in time as far as our ability to be kind right
right you know and that's a weird thing it's
like when you have i know there's all sorts of
ways that we people get up get raised but we
have people in society parents that are like
willingly raising their children with no identity
like that's that to me there's nothing great
there's nothing more evil than that you know,
to, to, to place your own neurosis. And that's
like a therapist. It's like, like my neurosis,
whatever you want to call it is a therapist's
dream. But when my neurosis comes to, when, when
my, when my, my reprieve comes right now, all
I've done is tapped into that person's neurosis.
Cause that's it. They, they can't get someone
that's in that position that just demands that
there's something wrong with you is just a projection
of where they're at. right there's something
must be wrong with you it's like no like not
not in the sense that you think like my frustration
doesn't come from my actions on target my frustration
has always come from the administrative bullshit
that comes after it when we have telling people
that you need to like jeff you need to sign your
name to this to all these shooter statements
fuck you i'm not signing my name to saying i
killed these people in a military mission But
my leadership, my officers are like, you're going
to do it. And I stood my ground. I'm the only.
That's the frightening thing. I was around the
most violent fucking humans on the planet. The
most violent. I was in it. And they all fucking
bent over and spread their cheeks. But me and
a few other guys. So you have those people that
are going, leadership, the command, blah, blah,
blah, bullshit. I'm not okay with that. Because
you are paying me. very little to go do the most
dangerous job in the world and i did it for eight
years and so when it came for me to go wait wait
wait wait wait why are we doing this don't question
like well i'm the one that's been fucking doing
the work for the last eight years i'm gonna question
this right because now i like i literally like
the four star that's uh that's the dean of of
texas right the last time i spoke to that guy
right he's like nichols you know your problem
is your candor I was like, you know what your
fucking problem is? You're too big of a fucking
pussy to do what I do. It didn't go over well.
But that's what I said to him. Right. So I don't
have time and patience for people that don't
do our job. I don't. And I will never, ever respect.
I will never respect anyone above me that doesn't
have that idea that like, hey, I'm your boss.
I can respect that. Totally respect that, that
boss situation. But don't deem on me. My, my,
my stuff on act on target when you're never done
at one time, like our officers didn't go on target.
Not one time in my entire time, my entire career.
Did I ever have an officer next to me with a
gun? Not once, not ever. And they're the ones
in charge. Like, and I didn't, I never could
understand that. It's like, how could you understand
the job of something? Like I, as a leader, it's
like, if I wasn't a sniper and didn't have these
skills. How could I possibly tell the people
below me that they're doing something wrong?
What's their point of understanding? Like there's
no SEAL officer snipers. There's no SEAL officer
breachers, no SEAL officers skydivers. So why
are these people telling me on target that I
should be doing? And I see that in the fire.
I see that in the police. I'm just like, when
are we, like you said, just all going to stand
up and go, fuck off. I'm done with this shit.
Like, if you want to go on target, you fucking
go on target or shut your mouth. Because guys
are still going to go. Firefighters are still
going to run into the fires. Police officers,
even off -duty, are going to do it, right? How
many stories do you hear of off -duty police
intervening when either it had to be done or
there was inept fire or police service and someone
witnessed it and saved? Like, that happens all
the time. But the military doesn't have that.
We got our own. Because we're not doing missions
here. So it's like you get over there and it's
like it's held above your head. If you don't
do what I say, you're going to be in trouble.
And I'm not OK with that either. That sort of
coercion, it says specifically UCMJ, there'll
be no threat of coercion. And that's all I got.
My military leadership just threatened me with
coercion. If you don't do what I say, you're
going to go to Captain's Mass. I'm going to send
you overseas. All these things like that's all
coercion. Because if it's not OK, I can say no.
It's my inherent right. But they don't believe
that. And so that's where my ultimate frustration
was in the military and why I got out. I had
no respect or trust for my leadership because
none of them did the job. The last place I worked,
the fire chief came up through preventions. So
checking fire extinguishers and sprinklers. And
the operations chief, who arguably is the one
that actually oversees what we do, was a dispatcher.
And you wonder why that place is completely fucking
broken. And this is the point is that, yeah,
of course they're administrative, the admin chief,
if he's dealing with the stock room and equipment
and everything. Yeah. Maybe that person didn't
need to be on the ground all the time, but they
certainly need to be humble enough to ask the
people on the ground, what do you need? But when
you're talking about the person who's over training
and all these other areas operationally or over
the whole, you know, the whole department and
you've never actually really put on the gear.
and run these calls then you know what are you
doing there point of reference yeah i mean if
you're a carpenter and you know the the master
carpenter position is vacated and they get a
guy that works in accounting like how are you
going to run a carpentry you know it's the same
thing it doesn't change if you've never done
the job you are not going to understand unless
you're one of these rare people that is so humble
You will ask all the people on the ground, what
do you need? And you will actually listen, which
is an anomaly at best. I've seen guys like that.
To be super clear, I've had some exceptional
officers, but they never made it past 04 because
of that. I'm here to take on the information
of my team leaders, my troop chief, and I'm just
going to sit back and enjoy the show, man, because
you guys are fucking world class. Let me take
credit for you being awesome, but it was never
that. And so like, even like my there on the
white side, SEAL team, when I was at SEAL team
five, every single leader that I was ever like
chief or officer leader was relieved of their
command or duty on deployment because they were
like my chiefs, both my chiefs and my second
employment, we went to Ramadi, you know, we replaced
Jocko and his guys really dangerous time Ramadi,
right? The movie war fighters coming out. That's
what my son's named after Elliot Miller. And
some of those guys had real fucking heavy combat.
And it's like, you know, We showed up on our
very first mission, and we were in a nasty little
firefight. Both of our chiefs came from the leapfrog,
skydivers. Spent their entire career jumping
out of the planes just as is. So they get into
combat, and we're in a first firefight. One of
them hides. The other one hides behind a barricade,
puts his gun on full auto, puts it over his head,
and just shoots full auto down the street. Didn't
even look. They went on one mission. That was
it. And we, E5s and E6s, were like, you motherfuckers
ain't going out anymore, man. You're sticking
around. And the Marcus Attrell basically took
over our platoon, and we were just like, we just
relieved our entire command because they were
so incompetent. And that's what we keep seeing.
We keep seeing people that are put in these positions
coming from the administrative, and they're like,
I'm the chief. I know. Like, the fuck you do?
You know, and that rank somehow brings on impotence.
Like that's ridiculous, ridiculous. So I think
that I hope, I hope that we're lighting a fire
under a bunch of young people and they're going
to go stand their ground because it's the right
thing to do. Absolutely. Well, I want to hit
one more area, then we'll go to your relocation
and then close out from there. But we talked
a little while ago after my Instagram page got
shut down, and I reached out to you to see if
you had any way of helping, and it's still closed
down at the moment. I'll find out in May, I think,
if it pops up again, because I think it said
180 days. But anyway, I digress. When we were
chatting, you were talking about... the negative
impact of some of the strength and conditioning
coaches on the social media space. So expand
on that for me. Well, I mean, I just think that
first and foremost, it's too much, again, misinformation
or poor movement, or this is what you're going
to do to become a firefighter, a police officer
or Navy SEAL. It's not these just like little
clips of working out that does it. And I think
that the spread of the misinformation and in
that realm is, is incredibly criminal. You know,
it really isn't what it, what it's about. It's
not, we talk about this all the time too. It's
not about the weekend beat down. or the 60 -day
challenge, or 30 days to become a Navy SEAL.
It's none of those things. And Jeff always calls
it, it's all the unsexy stuff that gets you there.
It's the day after day after day of the training,
and your head is down, and really, truly not
in your phone. You're actually doing the work.
And when you're going onto those forums to find
information about doing it, it's just a bunch
of the guys who didn't do the job again saying,
this is how you do the job. Yeah, I think that's
the nail on the head. It's an extension of everything
we're talking about. It's society not understanding
the actual truth. Because society, whether it's
the marketing, the media, whoever it is, that
gets the constantly moving target of society.
But the books, everything that's out there that's
proliferated, there's a perceived understanding
of how things are. But when you get guys come
in and you go, this is what we're doing. And
almost on every case, there is somebody we get
that we've trained and they say, this is who's
trained me. This is what I followed. This is
what I've heard. And in every single case, I'm
like, well, okay. All of that taking account,
like what's the standard? What is the standard
of this? The standard of the SEAL teams is not
a bud student. Basic underwater demolition, like
basic. It's so, the easiest part of our command,
the fucking easiest part of our job is BUDS.
It is the easiest, by far the easiest. And then
SQT, right? As you go down this road, it gets
more difficult. The reality is that society does
not differentiate between the top of the standard
all the way down to the bottom. My very first
week at BUDS, we had a guy, an instructor. He
said, listen, guys, if one of you guys goes out
in town or goes to Tijuana and you get in trouble,
the newspaper is going to say Navy SEAL does
something. Sure enough, two days in my buds class,
two guys went out of Tijuana, got arrested. Newspaper,
Navy SEALs arrested in Tijuana. So society is
not set up because society doesn't want to admit
that the people they're following are fucking
cowards and phonies. That's the problem. is because
we've we've propagated that a navy seal is a
guy who runs on the beach with his shirt off
in the safe streets of america that's what we've
got and no one is enough critical thinking to
go wait there's a there's a bud standard like
when i'm a bud student there's a standard and
it's a run a swim a time okay now there's sqt
the seal qualification training which six months
later it's like okay there's a new standard then
i check into seal team x one one through ten
right now there's a navy seal standard but the
navy seals there don't do skydiving they don't
do the things that like they don't do the heightened
skill and it's they do things they're barely
skilled but society doesn't differentiate and
the problem is is everyone is saying like we
had a phone call the other day someone that was
a boat guy for 11 years and is telling this female
this is the way i know i know what's going on
i know what's going on Dude, you're a boat guy.
You never met the standard of the SEAL teams
and you're trying to get this female to become
the first Navy SEAL. So you're inadvertently
or purposely misleading this person because you're
saying you know the standard. But how could you?
I think one other thing too, James, that I just
wanted to touch on is a lot of these strength
coaches or tactical coaches or whatever, you
can just go to an app or buy this program or
whatever, and it's just not the case. Then there's
no instruction on actually how to do it. So you
are just leading a whole bunch of people to more
confusion rather than actually telling them this
is really how you train properly for this. And
then you have these young people looking at Instagram
and be like, geez, I wish I could look like that
guy or be like that guy. And they're still not
the ones that are doing it. Their only job now
is to look cool behind the camera. James, do
you have a favorite sport? Are you a huge soccer
fan or anything? I love martial arts. So I do
jujitsu at the moment. Perfect. You'll get this
analogy. I always tell people like... Manchester
United is a pretty fucking good team, we'll say.
We could say even like the All Blacks of New
Zealand, the winningest team, sports team in
history. In New Zealand, if you go to New Zealand,
you have a bunch of people in the schoolyard,
you know, the workplace. There's a bunch of lower
level rugby all over, right? Because they're
trying to get to the All Blacks. Nobody in those
minor leagues of the rugby are going, you know
what, we do the same thing, the fucking All Blacks.
We're just as good. But that's all we have. We
have all of these paper warriors that have written
books that are saying that. And you're like,
whoa, whoa, whoa. Like, no, man, you are not
the standard. And that's the problem. The question
was like, we see you guys come in, what's the
deal? It's like, we keep getting all of these
people coming in thinking what the standard is,
what they've been told by somebody who never
actually met the standard. They met a standard
within the community, but they didn't meet the
standard. And that's what problem is. You tell
these guys, and they're like, their world crumbles
a little bit because you're like, they put all
this emotional eggs in these baskets of like,
this guy was a Navy SEAL. He must know. And then
you have me go, no, no, there's much higher standards
of this. And this is not the standards we're
off at all. Like, we deploy. Like, I don't spend
20 years in the United States without deploying.
If you did 20 years of deployment, you should
have at least 10 deployments, at least. And so
that's what you're seeing is you're seeing people
that have heroized people that are really quite
phony. And in terms of not what they did, not
to disregard, yes, they did all that, but they're
propagating lies to substantiate their own value
or their book or their way of being or their
Instagram page. And it's like, we, we, we, we.
Like martial arts, for example. Who is going
to get access to martial artists at the highest
level without themselves being a martial artist?
You'll be called out immediately. Now you can
be a super humble white belt and be working with
America's top team all day. But as a white belt,
you're not going to go fucking hang around America's
top team and go, I do the same thing you do.
I got the same belt. That's what we see all the
time. That's all we see is a bunch of people
that are trying to inflate their being for their
own social presence. But when you ask them real
critical questions like, what have you been doing
for the last... While there was two wars going
on, where were you? Because these guys seemed
like they were in combat this whole time. What
the fuck were you doing? And nobody's asking
those questions. So then when they come to us
and go, hey, hey, like... There's a lot more
to this. There's layers of this thing. Like,
well, I don't know. I guess, you know, my mentor,
he's told me everything like, okay, well, was
he, was he, did he meet the standard? No, no,
he wasn't there. I was like, well, then he doesn't
know the standard. And that's what we see all
the time with coaches and people like they've
been lied to. And like, we were in Alabama a
couple, you know, a year or two ago or something.
And I had this old couple come up to me and add
that, Hey, we went to this dinner and we, we
hear the speaker who I knew. And he's like, yeah,
it was an admiral. A two -star admiral was telling
these people he was in Aden, the country of Aden,
the most dangerous country in the world. And
he was going from rooftop to rooftop shooting
bad guys with a suppressed pistol. He told that
to a bunch of people who paid thousands of dollars
for his dinner. So that's why. That is why the
world is so fucking confused because you have
people out there talking about how. They're just
basically taking someone's mission because I
knew that mission. I was privy to that actual
mission that had happened. And so I hear somebody
else tell it. I'm like, that motherfucker just
stole someone's story to tell to a bunch of people
to make himself feel awesome. And so that's what
we see. I would say 75 % of the time, that's
what we get. Someone has talked to someone, mentored
someone. They did a couple of phone calls. They
may have met with a workout for once or twice
and they were just told all this bullshit. And
so we got to go, all right, not to disregard
what that was, but here's, here's how you get
there by truth. And you just see like them, like
real confused, like, oh my God, like I didn't
lie to you. This is crazy. Like this means, so
then they don't know how to trust me. Or Catherine,
because they're like, you sound just as sure
about your way as that person did. And then you
try to explain to them, like, there's a difference
between what we like. Oh, no, like, it's all
the same. I'm like, wait, who the fuck is saying
it's all the same? It's like, well, my mentor
said it's all the same. Like, they have the same
job you did. Like, huh. So that's my problem
is nobody wants to own their shit. Everyone wants
to be a fucking superhero, but nobody wants to
go to superhero school. They just want to get
the Velcro t -shirts and buy the camo. And that's
what we got. And that's why we – it's so frustrating
for me because – now, we do get a good percentage
of people that know the bullshit and they come
straight to us and we're like, this is awesome.
We have a really good working relationship with
a lot of active duty SEALs and Green Berets and
Rangers and all sorts of stuff. And they say
the same stuff. They're frustrated too because
they believe the bullshit. And then they got
real training with us and they're like – I'm
so thankful I found you guys because I was on
the trajectory of not succeeding. I was listening
to mentors that were giving me wrong advice.
It doesn't benefit us to bullshit people. Like
she's worked at this profession for over 20 years
and so have I. And I've been that point where
I was just trying to make everyone a little clone
of me. And it doesn't work at all. And when I
finally started coaching. Instead of mandating
training, it got way better for me. And I could
see it. I could see my own bullshit then. I wasn't
being critical of my own way. And when I see
other people not be critical of the truth, it
makes me want to tell the truth. So my job is
to temper it so it doesn't come out like an asshole.
But that's always the struggle. another kind
of area where i see i think a lot of damage being
done is that whole you know raise men movement
where again you seem to have the same kind of
person and then now they've got the dads and
the sons and they're spraying over the hoses
and they're doing the ice bath it's like a fucking
blueprint they're all alcoholics and womanizers
and snorting coke at the end of this fucking
day it's like come on man like right we've ran
into those people too to the point where one
of those guys showed up at my house because he
stole our programs twice he showed up a thousand
dollars in gift cards because i fucking called
him out on it so one of the super famous seals
was doing that shit stealing from us so like
i'm not going to name names but you can probably
fucking narrow it down real quick my point is
is that that kind of shit being is is the problem
is because you have really really like these
little kids and dads that are starved for that
thing that these people are saying they can give
to them, but they can't fucking give it to you
because they don't have it because they themselves
are morally corrupted as well. And they're just
a big fucking show. And that isn't helping anyone.
And you are, you couldn't be more right about
that bullshit. And now you've got people fucking
lumping in psychedelics and stuff to it. Fucking
criminal, man. That stuff right now, now you've
got all these team guys with fucking plant medicine,
dude, and they're bypassing all the need, all
the quiet, prayer, meditation. They're bypassing
all of that, and they're going straight to the
phony holy, man, selling their bullshit in Costa
Rica. It's getting bad because that's what we
keep seeing. What you don't hear is that less
than 1 % of the guys that go through therapy,
six months later, are still on. Because they
go back to their environment. They don't fix
what they're doing. They don't do the practice
of breath work. And they end up right back where
they're at, back in the drugs, back in the womanizing,
back in the alcohol, back in the shitty life.
Because I did that. I went through the plant
medicine and thought I was fucking God. And I
thought I was all better. But all I was doing
is building up this big fucking ego, even just
in a different way. And then she called me on
it. I was like, oh, my God, I got to just. that's
bad. Like, holy shit. I'm so phony. Holy. Like
I went through it. Like you go back to my old
videos and like post therapy and in Mexico, man,
I thought I was even before that, like what a
fucking phony I was. Holy shit. And I'm so thankful
that I know it. Like, cause I just, I, I'm not,
I'm not like ever past that, like trying to resolve
that. you know i'm always trying to but it's
hard for me but i also know that like when i'm
really fucking wrong that it takes me a minute
to kind of like digest that and then grow and
like that's the hardest thing i put on her is
she's had to deal with my bullshit and like i
know it catches up to me and catches up to her
and she doesn't deserve that and i think that
that that's what that's what we need Like I respect
her so much that I actually listen. And even
if it's like, sometimes I don't because I've,
I care. I really do. And, and I'm in the, my
problem is, is what exactly we're talking about.
I have a hard time setting it down. I do. I really
do. Like even right now, like the last couple
of days with her and I, it's like, I'm having
a hard time and she's the brunt of my bullshit.
And it's not fair. And I know that I wouldn't
be in this position if it wasn't for her. I wouldn't.
I wouldn't. And I don't... I'm tired of watching
fucking good humans suffer. I'm fucking tired
of it, man. I'm so fucking tired of it. Because...
so many good people are trying to fucking fix
this place, man. And it's so fucking hard. It's
so hard for me. You know, that's the honest thing.
Like, honestly, I almost texted you before this,
man. I'm having a hard time, you know, it's going
to cancel this, but fuck man. Like this is, this
is, it's ironic that we're talking about this
because the last couple of days, this has just
been chewing me up, you know? And, uh, uh, There's
just a lot of good people that need some fucking
help, man. And sometimes we're able to provide
it, sometimes we're not. But I think there's
enough good people to provide help for everyone,
honestly. Well, I'm glad that you didn't cancel
because this is exactly what I'm talking about,
that kindness and compassion. Here you are. The
role that you held for so long was the absolute
tip of the spear. But this is what I talk about.
This is masculinity. The core of who you are
is wanting to help people. And when you see people
suffer, whether it's just the general public
or whether it's men or women in military uniforms
or first responder uniforms, we care. And I worked
for the last place with that toxic culture. One
of my classmates passed away from an overdose.
And some of the people were like, well, I didn't
even know him. He'd only been here for six months
or eight months. And I'm like, I feel it when
people in fucking New York. died in 9 -11 the
343 firefighters i didn't know any of them but
i how can you not feel it so i i totally understand
and this is why you you know both of you are
so passionate what you do that's why i'm so passionate
about what i do is because we actually fucking
care That's why it creates this visceral reaction
that has to come out because sometimes I'll cry
at a sad movie and sometimes I'll go in my garage
and beat the fuck out of my 150 -pound punch
bag and my knuckles will be whatever it takes,
but it's because I actually care and it's because
you care. This is what we need. I'm terrible
at remembering quotes, but there's a quote from
the Lorax and it's like, unless someone cares
a whole awful lot, nothing... is ever going to
change it's not something like that that's true
you need the book my sister got me when i went
to buds oh really there we go yeah yeah good
book yeah yeah great book great book great movie
too but i you're right like i we we we wear our
emotions on our sleeves sometimes a little bit
but it sometimes just comes across as anger and
that's what i've protected myself with for so
long when i when i my feelings are hurt or I
feel bad. I've always protected myself with anger
and violence. And learning how to not use that
as the shroud for my feelings is not – that's
what I work on. And that's what's not okay when
I project that onto my wife and my family and
my friends and the people I'm supposed to mentor.
And it does come from a place for me trying to
affect change. In the best way I know how. And
most of the time now, the best way is with patience.
And I really don't have that a lot of times.
So I'm aware of it as much as I can. My hope
is that my awareness will become greater. So
I don't use anger as my emotional shroud. And
I can express myself. the way i'm supposed to
be able to do it with the actual attached emotion
and i struggle with that i do and it's not from
the navy you certainly there's some conditioning
there right probably for sure and in its way
um but i've always been like this um and that's
not like i'm not going to change i just mean
it's part of my the way that god created me I
really do believe that what's inside of me is
the purest likeness of our creator. Like it is
compassion. It is ultimate love, but it's also
violence because I can't have one of it. So it's
like, I am one of the most violent people I've
ever met. So what I'm trying to learn from my
wife is that Jeff is also the most lovely, sweet,
kind, compassionate person. Of course, we have
trials and tribulations and especially with an
upcoming move and my stepson going to college.
But just going back into the conversation that
we've been having, learning how to harness and
know when to use your violence or anger or taking
action in that way is super important. But understanding
and learning the compassionate side and empathy.
Is the other side of that and learning how to
express and when that is also the appropriate
response, you know, rather than just going to
the one that you're comfortable with, right or
wrong. It's a comfortable response. Learning,
I think learning kindness and compassion also
gives a person to really slow down to assess
how they actually feel and what's actually going
on with them. And I also feel in this realm that.
um giving that person enough time and space to
to be patient to understand what they're feeling
is probably just as important as that person
learning to do it themselves like i didn't and
i say this is and i never never i could have
never heard myself make sense of this but she
has made sense of this and for me and then giving
me that gift is this is i never knew that i had
to have compassion for myself I didn't know what
that was. I didn't know how to be easy on me.
That wasn't easy on me as a child. My parents
were the most loving parents. They gave me an
infinite road to hang myself. They never said
no. I was fortunate as a child. I respect my
parents. I always wanted to do good. Like I said,
a little bit of a straight -edge child, but it
was kind of a backlash. I had all this job in
the Navy and no one ever told me no. And anyone
that told me no, I got confrontational with,
violent with, whatever it might be. And then
when I got out as a civilian, no one's ever told
me no. And so I lashed out at the world and was
angry in so many ways. But ultimately, what I
had to go back was tell 12 -year -old Jeff that
he was okay. like literally i had to like find
compassion for that 12 year old kid because at
12 years old i got i went i went hog wild man
like i just i had one point of focus in my life
and i went i did everything i could to get to
that point of focus in sport and when that fell
apart i just got more angry violent and that
was my fuel and in that case like that's not
the fuel when you're making critical decisions
It's great to a point, right? But it's like the
quarterback can't be angry. Leave that for the
linebacker. You know what I mean? And that's
kind of where I'm at now is trying to learn that
and trying to be a better mentor so people come
in and they don't see angry, violent veteran.
And that's kind of part of the allure, too, is
I have some intensity about me. Um, but I'm really
fair and I'm actually with our, with our athletes,
I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm actually, believe it or not,
it's like the one group of people that I'm actually,
I hear and I, and I don't, I've been able to
practice not being that guy with some of these
people. Cause we've had some questionable, like
some questionable characters and I've, I've been
able to handle it well. So, um, that's the, that's
just the hope. You know, I, I think that there's
a lot of people out there like that, that are
trying to. try to figure out something's wrong
with you it's like no man you're just you're
just a go -getter and you need to find a place
to harness it i think that's why the military
fire law enforcement is so good for us because
there is always something to be done i find that
my anger also stems from again that cowardice
the bullies you know i'm not a violent person
at all you know i trained my whole life in martial
arts but never really had to test it so i might
i might fold like a piece of paper if i ever
caught it to it but um but it's just when i get
angry is when you know i'm on the road and so
many first responders have this you know and
you see someone driving like an asshole and you
know what happens to that minivan full of kids
if that person does you know what they did last
night and you saw them weeping and throwing themselves
a pity party whilst we're putting yellow sheets
over the family so you know and the same with
the kind of toxic leadership that falls you know
that sends people towards either losing their
job or divorce or suicide and it's just it's
hard when you have a kind compassionate heart
not to also simultaneously want to choke and
punch the faces of people that are opposing kindness
and compassion in your community. So it's such
a dichotomy. It's like a mental tug of war to
be that kind of peaceful, you know, warrior in
the garden, but then not grab a pitchfork and
jam it through someone's face. Yes, yes. No,
it's a real thing, you know, and you're right.
Like it's that really, it's the cliche of, you
know, being like a gardener in a war, you know,
a warrior in a garden. Like it really is like,
that's the hardest practice for us. For our population,
it's to be still and know. Be still. For someone
like you and I that has this very extreme nature
of capacity for doing, that's what I'm trying
to learn. You don't have the capacity to be completely
still and be there with God. That's what you
get. To be the warrior of the extreme, you also
have the extreme of being still. it takes a lot
more practice to be still after all those years
of going, you know? And, and, and that's, so
it's like, I did 11 years of service. I've been
out for 10 years. It's like, how long is it going
to take? Like, this is probably going to take
my life for me to just keep dialing it back year
after year after year. I know people like you,
you and I have known each other for years. I'm
very different than our first podcast, but I'm
still not where I feel like I can be. emotionally
um and it's not being a bigger a bigger show
it's being a more quiet stoic old guy like wisdom
shut your mouth and i have a hard time shutting
my mouth so maybe maybe 30 years i'll be quiet
yeah all right well speaking of quiet last last
area before we close out um talk to me about
the transition into georgia and what can people
expect as far as the uh the services and the
facility when you make the move? We will be close
to Georgia, but we'll be in Alabama. We'll be
out. Oh, sorry. I got that wrong. We'll be in
Banks, Alabama. Jeff played baseball at Troy
University, which is about 15 minutes from where
we actually purchased property. So we're really
looking forward to. you know, moving personally
to some property where we can start to kind of
grow some things and get upgrade, you know, incrementally
every single year. And then also just bring our
business onto our own property, just to be able
to do a little bit more and expand. And like,
we're talking at the very beginning of this.
having the evolution of our business be what
it needs to be for these warriors, whether that's
implementing more, you know, meditation, breathwork
types of things into it or holistic foods or
whatever that looks like for these warriors going
in. That's kind of what we're hoping and seeking
to do when we move. Yeah, it's right. Cause when
we're, you know, we're releasing our building,
renting a building, there's only so much kind
of like that you can build within it, that structure
to build a kind of what you want to do. And then
with 28 acres in a state. like Georgia, Alabama,
Mississippi, where it's extremely like, I've
never been around that many truly pro -American
and pro -military people. Like, Virginia Beach
is one of the most un -military, un -friendly
places on the planet. And so you go down deep
south and you see this deep -rooted culture around
family and love still. And it's like, it's a
little bit like, you're like, really? It still
exists? It does. It certainly does in certain
pockets. in a place that would do like what we're
going to do there it's so supported by the community
it's a little bit it's just so different like
we you know we didn't even tell anybody we were
necessarily moving down there to do this thing
like other than like our closest friends within
like 24 48 hours the mayor was aware of it then
we had we've had two meetings with the police
chief already We're having a meeting with the
fire chief when we get back. We're an hour from
Benning. We have all these rangers that want
to come train with us. We're two hours from Panama
City. Fort Rucker, basically the top gun school
for helicopter school, it's 40 minutes from us.
Then we have Maxwell Air Force Base just north
of us where Air Force ROTC is. That's there,
right? And then we have Lockheed Martin there.
You have Kimber Firearms and Troy. You have all
these super pro -military things. And every time
we go down there, they're like, just take this,
do this, do this. The university asked my wife
and I to be on the exercise physiology board.
So now we have – potentially we have other things
like we have DEXs there. We can pull blood potentially.
So like these resources that the university is
like, hey. we recognize what you're doing. You're,
you're a part of our community. Like, Hey, you're
also, you know, all, you know, like I'm part
of it. We're both part of the university. So
it's like, well, let's see where this goes. We
don't know where, like, we don't know what that's
going to propagate, but what we do know is it's
going to, the people that come train with us,
the service will be better because there'll be
more people willing to serve that have their
hands in it such that we can access. You know,
and we don't know what that's actually going
to look like. But the people there are so lovely.
That's what I'm looking forward to doing is being
around. I grew up in that type of community.
I grew up in a community that I couldn't get
away from fast enough because everyone knew everyone.
Now I'm like, oh, I see. I see the safety and
security in that, you know. The community. Yeah.
And just being able to slow back down. You know,
Virginia Beach is a super, super transient place
and it's all very military based. So I think
it'll be just beneficial just to get a different.
you know, get it in a different environment.
And certainly one that's much, much slower. And
hopefully that also allows us the, you know,
freedom and creativity to come up with new, you
know, different ideas for this business to grow
too. As far as the facilities, our facility right
now is about 4 ,000 square feet, 600 of its office
space or so. In Alabama, we'll be, it's, we'll
be about 8 ,800 square feet. So we're going to
double our gym space. We don't own our building
here. We're going to be on 28 acres of our own
property. On the property, we'll eventually have
a bunch more. We could ruck on the property,
things like that. We're going to, over years,
we're going to build this. Not like a sterile
training facility at all. We want to make it
a... This is going to sound interesting to some,
but I'm being kind of literal. We want to make
it better on Little Garden of Eden. Something
that really is living and colorful and beautiful.
People not only want to come train there, but
our friends, it's a great place to... B it's
beautiful. It's so beautiful. Our property sits
on the highest point between there and Panama
city. It's beautiful. It's just, you can see
for miles, you know, and it's just, we're surrounded
by farmland. We're surrounded by peanut fields,
cotton fields, and cows. That's how I grew up.
So anyways, that's, that's, we're excited. Not
just because there's a, like you said, there's
a move, but we really do believe it's going to,
you know, God's going to allow us to access the
people that we're supposed to. and mentor the
people we're supposed to so hopefully we can
coach ourselves out of a job and the world will
get better like i really like we want to plan
as many seasons we can because ultimately like
i'm good just being a coach now i'm really good
with that but it's not lost upon me the beautiful
souls that are coming through us to go do this
very sincere these very sincere professions so
we hope that our place is a place that we can
do that That sounds amazing. All right. Well
then one thing before we close out, um, I know
you're constantly, uh, you know, trying new products
and, uh, you've always been kind of in, you're
the one that got me onto, I think both Bob's
and Thorne, actually, I credit you with both
of those. Um, they, I continue to take them to
this day. What are some of the supplements that
you use or recommend these days? And then are
there any other products that have got you excited
the last two, three years? Speaking of go over
basics. Oh, geez. Yeah. Well, us too. I mean,
like if you look at our right now, it looks like
a Thorne vitamin store. As far as some of our
favorite ones, I think one of my favorite ones,
and this actually goes for bubs and, and Thorne
is collagen. I've been really, really big on
collagen right now. And from both of those companies,
I see a lot of benefit, obviously hair, skin,
and nails, but I'm taking it more for, you know,
my, my, you're right. Exactly. The soft tissue,
tendons and ligaments. So that's one of my favorites.
I would say my other favorite one is probably
fish oil, the super EPA from, from Thorne, as
far as inflammation recovery, what it does for
your brain health too. Yeah. And that's it. Like
we're, we're, we're like bubs and Thorne. Like
I, my, my go -to is always every single, every
single day I'm drinking. This is cynical and
greens right here. Every day at three, I drink
it. I always have typically give or take about
three o 'clock on my snack time, fat and that.
You know, my whey protein, my creatine every
day after I work out, you know. I like having
two collagens because it's kind of like I can
drive Ferrari one day and Lamborghini the next.
So I typically just kind of like wherever the
protein's at, like I just kind of have one in
one each place. And it might change or whatever.
But like I really, too, on the butt side, they're
MCT. Like they're – that stuff is like – because
I'm pretty strict with my diet. I made a change
a couple years ago. I'm really, really strict
with it because – Um, yeah, I was eating like
an idiot. And so that trying to get my fat content
up has been really good. And so MCT has been
real, real good for me, but create the fish oil.
I guess those are all staples. So my staples
are whey protein, collagen, creatine, fish oil.
Um, and then I, yeah, I guess my cynical and
greens, those are, I take those every day. Um,
and. Funny enough, the hardest thing about supplements
is being consistent. Once I have been really
consistent, because she's the most consistent
person ever. My father, in a way, totally recreated
it. I had an amazing father in that sense. So
consistent, so reliable, so good that way. Her
consistency, I've totally been able to ride her
coattails. I never forget because she's always
taking them. I've gotten this great habit now.
the consistency of those two products and brands,
you just can't go wrong. You know, there's, there's
a few out there that obviously make really good
products, but it's where can you get a collection
of no kidding? I can pick any product from either
of these companies and bubs and Thorne have definitely
been in and Sean, Sean at bubs is like the best
dude. Like he was just on not too long ago, right?
Sean. Yeah. I had him on again. That's like,
aside from the product quality, like I've never
met a company that good in quality. Truly. Like
we've, we've, God bless you, Sean. We had to
sign an us closure and I won't tell anybody,
but yes, the product's fucking amazing. It's
amazing too. And the fact that we get to support
Sean in his endeavor is it's such a gift. It
is. It's a gift to be able to associate with
yourself at that company. Cause like everything
we complained about for the last two hours about
things, not being right, not being compliant,
not doing right, not being the best. That is
Sean. And that is bubs. And as far as as long
as Sean is in charge of that company, man, like
I'm I'm sold. I'm sold. Absolutely. Yeah. Hearing
what happened after Glenn died and the laws that
were changed and the benefits that were secured
for people in the future. It was it was an amazing
conversation to hear when you were talking about
the innovation in the team room. One product
that I've come across the last. year and a half
now that I think is amazing is called Nucalm.
N -U -C -A -L -M. Have you come across that?
I think I've seen the label. I can see it in
my head. I have not. Is it magnesium -based?
No, it's actually not a supplement. It's what
used to be a massive box that you would sit in
a chair and you'd put on headphones and a sleep
mask. Gotcha. And it's not like the ambient stuff
you find on a Spotify playlist. song is like
a gig of memory. And the backstory is there was
supposedly the most intelligent scientists we
had had spent about 15 years trying to figure
out the frequency that the brain is at and all
the different emotional stays. And then about
another 10 years, he figured out how to get the
brain to go into that. And I'm not a big, I go
into most of these going, this is going to be
bullshit. I mean, all the wearables and stuff,
you know, I understand fully the, you know, where
they can and where they can't. But this, there
is no question. And my family uses it. Is this
like a vibration? Do you sit in a chair? Essentially,
it's just through the headphones. So what you're
hearing is the undulation through the ears. But
we've got down regulation ones that are phenomenal.
One called Power Nap, one called Rescue. And
even the Focus one that I used when I was writing
my book, it kind of really dials you in. So that
would be probably invaluable for... for all your
you know your men and women too because especially
yeah if you punctuate you know like a firefighter
or a cop after their shift before they go home
find somewhere safe whether it's a bunk room
whether it's the squad car within the perimeter
and just do that for 20 minutes you get the equivalent
of 90 minutes sleep and it's down regulating
your nervous system and it's incredible sure
yeah Yeah, because I think that that's the thing
is like you hear somebody interface with some
of these things. If it's too complex, it's kind
of hard. Like we've tried a bunch of like the
Muse and all these sort of things they've sent
to us, all these companies. And like they're
good to a point, but sometimes you just need
to be still instead of like be interfacing with
this device. Exactly. Right. And I know that
there's a give and take with that depending on
where you're at intellectually in that space.
But yeah, I think you're right. Because we're
all big skeptics, right? And that's a good place
to be in this field. It is. But when you find
a product that's like, wait, this interface is
good. And there is a sensation that's coming
from this cause I've used it consistently. It's
like, I may not know what this is, but there's
a sensation of goodness, you know? And I think
that that, that propagation is, is, is it really
important to our field? And I think that I just,
it's surprising that there isn't more really
profound tech or just it's kind of being lost
in the mix right now. Like that stuff. I think
that that's cause vibration is everything like
our speech or meditation, everything is a frequency
vibration. It's like, if you can get that. that
right hurts or whatever it was. There's a bunch
of hurts. Like we, we have a sauna and we always,
she always pumps in music and light into our
sauna. I kind of do like different frequencies
and different colors based on like the, the height
of the stress or what kind of stress. So we'll,
we'll turn on, I'll turn on a different hurts
based on the emotion of your chakra. And then
we also have the same colors in the sauna that
will match up with that frequency. So it sounds.
And it's way like we're targeting the same result,
right? Yeah. And I think that that's where the
intuitive nature is like at some point you're
like, oh, I got my fitness down. Then we go,
well, how do I do my fitness better? We'll work
on supplements or diet. And once we get those,
it's like, well, inevitably it's like, okay,
let's get into our brain, our sleep and our meditation.
Like that's like the biggest, most important
gate, but you still got to go to the other ones
to make sense of that last one. Yeah. What I
like about this is it's passive. So I do headspace
as well. I love it. But headspace, you're still
trying to quieten the brain. You're trying to
be present, acknowledge the thoughts, let them
go. With new calm, you just lie in there. And
sometimes you kind of wake yourself up snoring
and other times you're more alert, but it's doing
it whether you like it or not. So for some of
the people that are a little bit more resistant
maybe to the mindfulness initially, it might
be a good. you know um gateway to that and even
there was a monastery in la that the founder
was working with and these lifelong monks said
they got into their flow state you know the deep
meditation state so much quicker when they've
been using new calm as well so it goes hand in
hand with that right and that's where you want
to be able to take your practice and get it heightened
without distraction maybe right so yeah the beauty
of like because that's what she her her formal
education postgraduate is that like that's some
of the people that the really well -known famous
people that brought meditation united states
um she does like i'd be watching walk by her
computer and she's like talking to like like
listen to lecture sharon salzburg or um john
cabot zen or something like that you're like
whoa those are like those are the ones and so
it goes the same tone all the woo -woo stuff
but you actually have somebody that's gone their
practice they discovered the people that disseminate
it through truth then they can propagate these
sort of practices way easier and then you're
like that's okay that's what i'm saying they
just need more more more like uh more healers
right like that's where empaths yeah like that's
exactly that's that's her you know and and i
the device that's why the next thing is is like
you have someone like you practice monks using
it you see this benefit that's why i'm thinking
a practitioner putting someone like me herself
with that you get that heightened heightened
sense too so like we're always on the lookout
for that because she's the i can she's excellent
with dumbbells too and things like that but like
she's a master at like the way that i am with
a gun she is that with meditation thanks yeah
Well, I know they have a one -week free trial
as well. So it's an app on your phone. So just
go. The noise -canceling headphones work really
well. And apparently those bone ones do too as
well. They're kind of around the ear ones. Definitely.
Yeah, for sure. NuCalm. N -U -C -A -L -M. That's
correct. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah, yeah. We will definitely
look it up. But yeah, maybe we'll do this. When
we get to Alabama and get settled, we'll get
you out. We'll have you come up. Because when
we really get settled and it gets where we want
it, At some point, like the coaches and staff,
we'll have a place for them to stay on the property.
So it's like our gym is 10 ,000. Inside the gym,
there's a 2 ,200 square foot living space. Currently,
it's like three bedroom, two bath, fully functioning.
So we're going to live in there while we're building
our house. And then once we're done, that becomes
like when coaches come to, because we always
have coaches come to classes. Well, they can
stay there. you know they bring their family
bring their dog bring their kids and they're
staying at the gym house well you know what i
mean and that's the idea is we'll be able to
get the evolution is is going to be we're going
to get more minds to our place that can survey
what we're doing and go hey have you thought
about this or like you were talking about the
muse or like we have dietitians come in and go
hey like our goal hopefully in the future like
well you know have our you know apple trees there
orange trees the lemons avocados wherever it
might be where it's like that's part of it is
like you're doing nature nature stuff you're
out you're out out the out you know you know
and so i think a lot of that the evolution of
what we do yes we're our x's and o's of the barbell
is going to get get a little bit better because
it's our space our equipment we're doing some
probably some unique custom stuff but ultimately
what it does is it gives us a space right like
we have a great space but we have neighbors and
it's noisy and things like that and like when
someone's having stress all these sort of things
want to focus when you separate them and you
put them in a place where like there's no distractions
here we're here to train meditate sleep eat whatever
do no distractions the only thing you're gonna
hear is cows that's it that's the only thing
you're gonna hear because we're because you know
so it's like getting people away from that stimulus
is a good idea and that's also kind of like we
try to get down there to build that up Brilliant.
Well, it sounds amazing. And yeah, I would love
to come visit when you're all settled. So thank
you. You bet. All right. Well, for people listening,
if they want to learn more about Performance
First, find you, reach out to you, where are
the best places online? The best place for me,
us, is social media is kind of a place to see
a lot of our content. We have a YouTube page
as well. Our website is where you're going to
access our programs and some of the other information.
But between our website, our Instagram, our YouTube,
That's really where a lot of interactions are
at. We do some in -person stuff, but social media,
that's kind of where I'm at. Yeah, Jeff's social
media, where we're active on that is at jeffcscs,
and then our website, performancefirstus .com.
And then Jeff just mentioned that we've got a
YouTube page. We're pretty easy to find. I also
have a social media Instagram at fitsoul22. Um,
so anytime you reach out to us, uh, we typically
give you some guidance on where to find the answer
if it's not directly from the mouth. Um, but
that's, we're going to ask you a little bit of
work. Like we got a lot of like Easter eggs to
find, but we got a lot of solutions because once
you show us, excuse me, once you show us that
you're sincere, you're going to do the work,
you absolutely have our time, but we're not going
to give you the time until you at least can do
the minimums. And I think that that's, that's
honest because If someone doesn't do the basics
right, you never know if they're going to own
their foundation. If someone shows up, their
foundation's good, we're like, okay, we can work
with that. I hate to be super rude. I have a
call a few minutes late too, but I'll let you
finish up with Jeff. Thank you so much for having
us on again. It's always really, really nice
to catch up with you. And your podcast is certainly
by far one of our favorites. So I really appreciate
you having us on here.