WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.620 This episode is sponsored by Transcend, a veteran 00:00:02.620 --> 00:00:04.960 -owned and operated performance optimization 00:00:04.960 --> 00:00:08.039 company that I introduced recently as a sponsor 00:00:08.039 --> 00:00:10.820 on this show. Well, since then I have actually 00:00:10.820 --> 00:00:13.080 been using my products and I have had incredible 00:00:13.080 --> 00:00:15.939 success. There was initial blood work that was 00:00:15.939 --> 00:00:19.039 extremely detailed and based on that they offered 00:00:19.039 --> 00:00:23.559 supplementation. So I began taking DHEA. bpc 00:00:23.559 --> 00:00:26.539 157 for inflammation based on the fact that i've 00:00:26.539 --> 00:00:28.859 been a stuntman a martial artist and a firefighter 00:00:28.859 --> 00:00:31.980 my whole life lots of aches and pains dihexa 00:00:31.980 --> 00:00:34.759 to help cognition after multiple punches to the 00:00:34.759 --> 00:00:37.820 head and shift work and peptides four months 00:00:37.820 --> 00:00:40.119 later they did a detailed blood work again and 00:00:40.119 --> 00:00:43.119 i was actually able to taper off two of the peptides 00:00:43.119 --> 00:00:45.640 because my body had responded so well to just 00:00:45.640 --> 00:00:48.079 one of them that it was optimized at that point 00:00:48.570 --> 00:00:51.890 So I cannot speak highly enough of the immense 00:00:51.890 --> 00:00:54.390 range of supplementation that they offer, whether 00:00:54.390 --> 00:00:57.409 it's male health, female health, peptides to 00:00:57.409 --> 00:00:59.429 boost your own testosterone, which I would argue 00:00:59.429 --> 00:01:02.429 is needed by a lot of the fire service, or whether 00:01:02.429 --> 00:01:04.569 it's exogenous testosterone needed, especially 00:01:04.569 --> 00:01:08.000 after TBIs or advanced age. Now, as I mentioned 00:01:08.000 --> 00:01:10.379 before, the other side of this company is an 00:01:10.379 --> 00:01:12.900 altruistic arm called the Transcend Foundation, 00:01:13.420 --> 00:01:15.980 which is putting veterans and first responders 00:01:15.980 --> 00:01:19.120 through some of their protocols free of charge. 00:01:19.379 --> 00:01:22.079 Now, Transcend are also offering you, the audience, 00:01:22.260 --> 00:01:25.319 10 % off their protocols. And you can find that 00:01:25.319 --> 00:01:28.040 on jamesgeering .com under the Products tab. 00:01:28.400 --> 00:01:30.859 And if you want to hear more about Transcend 00:01:30.859 --> 00:01:34.560 and their story, listen to episode 808 with the 00:01:34.560 --> 00:01:38.950 founder, Ernie Colling. or go to transcendcompany 00:01:38.950 --> 00:01:43.530 .com. This episode is sponsored by Team Builder, 00:01:43.530 --> 00:01:45.629 yet another company that's doing great things 00:01:45.629 --> 00:01:48.750 for the first responder community. As a strength 00:01:48.750 --> 00:01:51.030 and conditioning coach myself, who also trains 00:01:51.030 --> 00:01:54.230 tactical athletes, dissemination of wellness 00:01:54.230 --> 00:01:56.370 information is one of the biggest challenges. 00:01:57.049 --> 00:01:59.310 Now, TeamBuildr is the premier strength and 00:01:59.310 --> 00:02:01.670 conditioning software for tactical athletes. 00:02:01.950 --> 00:02:04.450 And there are several features that really impress 00:02:04.450 --> 00:02:07.930 me. Firstly, there is a full exercise library, 00:02:08.110 --> 00:02:10.409 so you, the personal trainer, does not have to 00:02:10.409 --> 00:02:13.610 create that within your own department. Secondly, 00:02:13.770 --> 00:02:17.090 you can send out programming, but also individualize, 00:02:17.129 --> 00:02:19.909 which I love. So you blanket program for everyone. 00:02:20.110 --> 00:02:22.849 Now you can tweak based on someone's injury, 00:02:23.050 --> 00:02:25.550 someone's need to maybe drop some body composition, 00:02:25.590 --> 00:02:28.490 rather than having to write a program for every 00:02:28.490 --> 00:02:31.270 single person on their own. TeamBuilder also 00:02:31.270 --> 00:02:33.750 allows you to build custom questionnaires to 00:02:33.750 --> 00:02:36.789 collate health and wellness data. It integrates 00:02:36.789 --> 00:02:39.349 with wearables. And I think one of the most important 00:02:39.349 --> 00:02:43.150 things is obviously it tracks. To me, it's imperative 00:02:43.150 --> 00:02:46.629 that we as a profession start tracking our people 00:02:46.629 --> 00:02:50.509 from day one and then over the full span of their 00:02:50.509 --> 00:02:53.729 career, therefore catching potential wellness 00:02:53.729 --> 00:02:57.270 issues and injuries before they happen. Now, 00:02:57.289 --> 00:02:59.509 if you want to try TeamBuildr, they are offering 00:02:59.509 --> 00:03:01.830 you, the audience of the Behind the Shield podcast, 00:03:02.250 --> 00:03:06.430 a free 14 -day trial to experience all of the 00:03:06.430 --> 00:03:08.969 features. And if you want to take a deeper dive 00:03:08.969 --> 00:03:13.509 into Team Builder, listen to episode 1032 with 00:03:13.509 --> 00:03:17.530 Melissa Mercado or go to teambuildr .com. And 00:03:17.530 --> 00:03:19.050 I'll spell that to you because it's not as you 00:03:19.050 --> 00:03:25.860 think, T -E -A -M -B -U -I -L -D -R .com. Welcome 00:03:25.860 --> 00:03:27.620 to the Behind the Shield podcast. As always, 00:03:27.639 --> 00:03:29.500 my name is James Gearing and this week it is 00:03:29.500 --> 00:03:32.500 my absolute honor to welcome on the show Alistair 00:03:32.500 --> 00:03:36.639 McGregor and Josh Williams. Now Alistair came 00:03:36.639 --> 00:03:39.599 through the world of psychology and Josh is a 00:03:39.599 --> 00:03:42.699 former first responder who then became a corrections 00:03:42.699 --> 00:03:45.900 officer. Now the paths of these two men crossed 00:03:45.900 --> 00:03:49.120 in the world of mental health when Alistair brought 00:03:49.120 --> 00:03:53.080 his stealth program which uses Lego serious play 00:03:53.870 --> 00:03:56.889 to open the door of communication in groups of 00:03:56.889 --> 00:04:00.110 incarcerated men and women, and also prison officers 00:04:00.110 --> 00:04:04.590 themselves. So we discuss a host of topics, from 00:04:04.590 --> 00:04:06.629 their journeys into their respected professions, 00:04:07.409 --> 00:04:11.449 the world of mental health in uniform, childhood 00:04:11.449 --> 00:04:15.430 trauma in our incarcerated population, post -traumatic 00:04:15.430 --> 00:04:19.129 growth, opening the doors of communication, and 00:04:19.129 --> 00:04:22.120 so much more. Now, before we get to this incredible 00:04:22.120 --> 00:04:24.819 conversation, as I say every week, please just 00:04:24.819 --> 00:04:27.540 take a moment, go to whichever app you listen 00:04:27.540 --> 00:04:31.180 to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback 00:04:31.180 --> 00:04:34.980 and leave a rating. Every single five -star rating 00:04:34.980 --> 00:04:38.019 truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making 00:04:38.019 --> 00:04:41.660 it easier for others to find. And this is a free 00:04:41.660 --> 00:04:46.060 library of well over 1 ,000 episodes now. So 00:04:46.060 --> 00:04:49.600 all I ask in return is that you help share these 00:04:49.600 --> 00:04:52.579 incredible men and women's stories so I can get 00:04:52.579 --> 00:04:55.839 them to every single person on planet Earth who 00:04:55.839 --> 00:04:58.759 needs to hear them. So with that being said, 00:04:58.959 --> 00:05:03.100 I introduce to you Alistair McGregor. and Josh 00:05:03.100 --> 00:05:25.860 Williams. Enjoy. Well, Al and Josh, I want to 00:05:25.860 --> 00:05:28.420 start by saying thank you so much for taking 00:05:28.420 --> 00:05:30.240 the time and coming on the Behind the Shield 00:05:30.240 --> 00:05:34.319 podcast today. anytime anytime buddy pleasure 00:05:34.319 --> 00:05:37.959 to be here all right well very first question 00:05:37.959 --> 00:05:40.180 i'll start with you al where on planet earth 00:05:40.180 --> 00:05:45.579 are we finding you today uh nottingham yeah i 00:05:45.579 --> 00:05:47.560 know how you roll james i've seen your stuff 00:05:47.560 --> 00:05:51.279 um yeah yeah i'm in nottingham so robin hood 00:05:51.279 --> 00:05:54.300 like sheriff of nottingham kind of uh areas coming 00:05:54.300 --> 00:05:57.920 from scotland so yeah today so a bit but all 00:05:57.920 --> 00:06:00.459 good I used to work for Center Parks. I know 00:06:00.459 --> 00:06:01.920 they've got one of them in Nottingham Forest, 00:06:02.019 --> 00:06:06.600 I think. So, yeah. Never saw Robin when I was 00:06:06.600 --> 00:06:10.480 there, though. It's because it's me. That's it. 00:06:10.560 --> 00:06:13.319 I'm Robin Hood, man. It's on. But, yeah. Did 00:06:13.319 --> 00:06:15.360 you ever see the Kevin Costner one that made 00:06:15.360 --> 00:06:25.000 Mariah in Nottingham Forest? Yeah. I got no words. 00:06:25.060 --> 00:06:30.839 I got no words. All right. Well, Josh, same question. 00:06:30.939 --> 00:06:35.339 Where on planet Earth today? Opposite end of 00:06:35.339 --> 00:06:40.519 the UK from our pretty much southwest UK county 00:06:40.519 --> 00:06:44.199 called Dorset. That's where you'll find me enjoying 00:06:44.199 --> 00:06:47.459 the rain. Brilliant. Well, you're from my neck 00:06:47.459 --> 00:06:49.540 of woods. I grew up just outside Bath as we were 00:06:49.540 --> 00:06:51.560 talking before. So I'm a West Country boy myself. 00:06:52.699 --> 00:06:55.660 All right. Well, let's start today with Josh 00:06:55.660 --> 00:06:58.089 then for the moment. Start at the very beginning 00:06:58.089 --> 00:06:59.689 of your story then. So tell me where you were 00:06:59.689 --> 00:07:01.509 born. Tell me a little bit about your family 00:07:01.509 --> 00:07:03.730 dynamic, what your parents did, how many siblings. 00:07:05.129 --> 00:07:10.949 So I was born in Somerset, West Country, Southwest 00:07:10.949 --> 00:07:16.829 UK again. Family dynamic, so parents separated, 00:07:17.050 --> 00:07:24.060 dad in construction, mother doing... Sort of 00:07:24.060 --> 00:07:26.839 like administrative roles. And I've got two sisters, 00:07:26.879 --> 00:07:31.920 both in education. What about sports? What were 00:07:31.920 --> 00:07:33.220 you playing and doing when you were in school 00:07:33.220 --> 00:07:40.079 age? School age, I wasn't much of a sports enthusiast. 00:07:40.079 --> 00:07:45.800 However, since getting on a bit, I played a bit 00:07:45.800 --> 00:07:50.279 of rugby around. like locally that's mainly through 00:07:50.279 --> 00:07:52.500 the prison actually we set up a team for the 00:07:52.500 --> 00:07:54.939 prison that I work in where we go off and play 00:07:54.939 --> 00:07:58.399 local teams just as a kind of more of a well 00:07:58.399 --> 00:08:01.220 -being bit of fun not in a necessarily overly 00:08:01.220 --> 00:08:05.959 competitive way so that's I tell a lie actually 00:08:05.959 --> 00:08:11.629 a tug of war believe it or not for quite a large 00:08:11.629 --> 00:08:13.629 period of my youth I completely forgot that actually 00:08:13.629 --> 00:08:15.110 I can't believe I forgot that because that took 00:08:15.110 --> 00:08:17.949 up the majority of my life from the age of like 00:08:17.949 --> 00:08:23.209 14 up until about 18 going around the UK competing 00:08:23.209 --> 00:08:25.730 in tug of war really were you a big kid then 00:08:25.730 --> 00:08:30.569 no I was I'd say about about average probably 00:08:30.569 --> 00:08:33.370 a little bit heavier not as heavy as I am now 00:08:33.370 --> 00:08:37.070 but it's believe it or not it's not all about 00:08:37.070 --> 00:08:40.549 being the biggest you know, you've got a set 00:08:40.549 --> 00:08:42.549 weight limit for your whole team. So it's not 00:08:42.549 --> 00:08:45.309 like you can't have everyone weigh in massive 00:08:45.309 --> 00:08:46.850 amounts because otherwise you don't fit enough 00:08:46.850 --> 00:08:51.110 people in. That was me. What did you do as far 00:08:51.110 --> 00:08:53.750 as strength and conditioning to prepare for the 00:08:53.750 --> 00:08:59.730 sport of tug of war? I'll be honest. It wasn't, 00:08:59.730 --> 00:09:03.629 there wasn't anything too technical to it. We 00:09:03.629 --> 00:09:08.299 did a lot of, a lot of running. believe it or 00:09:08.299 --> 00:09:10.960 not because the amount of sort of strain it puts 00:09:10.960 --> 00:09:12.559 on your body when you're doing it you need to 00:09:12.559 --> 00:09:15.879 be able to kind of maintain that for a bit um 00:09:15.879 --> 00:09:18.539 but we actually had kind of a basic setup in 00:09:18.539 --> 00:09:23.039 a local park um we swung a pulley system up into 00:09:23.039 --> 00:09:26.779 a tree and had a big bin filled with concrete 00:09:26.779 --> 00:09:29.600 and attached a rope to the pulley system so we're 00:09:29.600 --> 00:09:31.419 literally just pulling the rope to lift the concrete 00:09:31.419 --> 00:09:33.960 block up into the tree and put it back down again 00:09:33.960 --> 00:09:38.220 and that was twice a week about hour and a half 00:09:38.220 --> 00:09:43.980 a time every week for a number of years and we're 00:09:43.980 --> 00:09:45.659 going to get in a little bit to your work as 00:09:45.659 --> 00:09:49.039 a firefighter and ultimately in corrections when 00:09:49.039 --> 00:09:51.639 uh when you think of the fire service sometimes 00:09:51.639 --> 00:09:54.000 the strongman events are popular and you every 00:09:54.000 --> 00:09:55.899 so often you'll see a fire engine pull where 00:09:55.899 --> 00:09:57.539 people will actually be using a rope to pull 00:09:57.539 --> 00:09:59.600 some sort of vehicle did you ever end up doing 00:09:59.600 --> 00:10:03.690 anything like that uh no i think the the closest 00:10:03.690 --> 00:10:08.370 i got was um our coach's van we uh dragged that 00:10:08.370 --> 00:10:11.570 around the field a couple of times um which in 00:10:11.570 --> 00:10:13.610 in comparison to some of these bigger people 00:10:13.610 --> 00:10:17.570 doing the fire engine pulls at our age our experience 00:10:17.570 --> 00:10:19.990 you know we'll take that as a win absolutely 00:10:19.990 --> 00:10:22.289 we're quite quite pleased with that little combi 00:10:22.289 --> 00:10:25.259 band being dragged around All right. We'll jump 00:10:25.259 --> 00:10:27.860 to Al then. So tell me where you were born. Tell 00:10:27.860 --> 00:10:29.600 me a little bit about your family dynamic, what 00:10:29.600 --> 00:10:33.759 your parents did, how many siblings. Sure. Yeah. 00:10:33.899 --> 00:10:35.480 So kind of coming from, it's ironic actually, 00:10:35.559 --> 00:10:37.960 like, you know, representing Birmingham on this 00:10:37.960 --> 00:10:39.740 t -shirt as you were talking, I was like, yeah, 00:10:39.820 --> 00:10:43.320 okay. So yeah, grew up in Birmingham. Amazing. 00:10:44.840 --> 00:10:48.480 My dad was a head teacher of an inner city ghetto 00:10:48.480 --> 00:10:51.019 school. And it kind of, that's where it kind 00:10:51.019 --> 00:10:53.779 of. I guess the positive psychology stuff. I 00:10:53.779 --> 00:10:57.440 think, James, you said incurable optimist. Is 00:10:57.440 --> 00:10:58.899 that right? Was that what you said when we were 00:10:58.899 --> 00:11:01.360 talking the other day? Incurable, angry optimist. 00:11:02.139 --> 00:11:04.940 Absolutely, absolutely. Weaponized, weaponized 00:11:04.940 --> 00:11:08.059 optimism. And yeah, he kind of set me going on 00:11:08.059 --> 00:11:12.600 this track. But yeah, loved education and kids. 00:11:12.659 --> 00:11:15.220 So that was awesome. And then mum was a sister 00:11:15.220 --> 00:11:19.039 in casualty. and was mega ill for a long time. 00:11:19.059 --> 00:11:21.440 She became super ill when I was 11. So I don't 00:11:21.440 --> 00:11:24.539 remember her well, really. And that as well had 00:11:24.539 --> 00:11:28.179 a massive impact. And yeah, I kind of grew up 00:11:28.179 --> 00:11:31.620 in Broome and loved it and then became a teacher 00:11:31.620 --> 00:11:35.139 and just took off, I think, and kind of then 00:11:35.139 --> 00:11:40.200 have been basically posh homeless. Since then, 00:11:40.379 --> 00:11:44.799 you know, flogging my wares for Lego. So, yeah. 00:11:45.679 --> 00:11:47.600 but good. It's been good. And fitness, you say 00:11:47.600 --> 00:11:50.899 about fitness, fitness and sport. And I played 00:11:50.899 --> 00:11:53.539 rugby quite a lot and like quite a big fella 00:11:53.539 --> 00:11:57.940 at like six, five. And, but also was like, I 00:11:57.940 --> 00:12:00.179 would say rockstar. I think people would maybe 00:12:00.179 --> 00:12:03.019 like question that. And no, I'm also a rockstar, 00:12:03.059 --> 00:12:05.500 but love playing guitar and saw a friend on a 00:12:05.500 --> 00:12:08.340 scrim went down and the studs broke his hand. 00:12:08.460 --> 00:12:10.399 And he was a bass player and he never played 00:12:10.399 --> 00:12:12.860 bass again. And I was like, could I just get 00:12:12.860 --> 00:12:16.100 the beer without the pain? Like, is that all 00:12:16.100 --> 00:12:19.840 right? Can we do that? And I chose that route, 00:12:19.919 --> 00:12:23.360 but have come back to fitness and sport, like, 00:12:23.399 --> 00:12:26.460 recently, you know, like, loads. You know, and 00:12:26.460 --> 00:12:28.620 I think becoming kind of job fit, inverted commas, 00:12:28.620 --> 00:12:31.220 I think, like, being around prison officers so 00:12:31.220 --> 00:12:33.059 much, I'm like, I've got to up my game. Like, 00:12:33.100 --> 00:12:36.440 I think this time last year was two stone overweight 00:12:36.440 --> 00:12:40.269 and... was kind of resisted it i was like you 00:12:40.269 --> 00:12:42.049 know i don't want no i'm not doing it no i'm 00:12:42.049 --> 00:12:43.610 not eating all this stuff and go to the gym at 00:12:43.610 --> 00:12:46.330 4 a .m no i'm not james greening like obviously 00:12:46.330 --> 00:12:50.710 right okay um and and then i've started and like 00:12:50.710 --> 00:12:52.409 the past i spent the past year really and like 00:12:52.409 --> 00:12:54.409 i'm the fittest i've ever been and the happiest 00:12:54.409 --> 00:12:57.750 i've been and it is it's all true like just get 00:12:57.750 --> 00:12:59.649 up and do it you know but i think it was it's 00:12:59.649 --> 00:13:02.549 people like josh like working with them and my 00:13:02.549 --> 00:13:04.940 energy would drop You know, it's very intense 00:13:04.940 --> 00:13:07.799 what we do, this kind of subconscious exorcism 00:13:07.799 --> 00:13:11.620 with Lego. And I just was losing energy. It was 00:13:11.620 --> 00:13:13.600 energy for me. It wasn't, you know, and then 00:13:13.600 --> 00:13:15.519 now as I've gotten closer and closer and it's, 00:13:15.519 --> 00:13:17.940 you know, prisons to me are the abyss. I think, 00:13:17.960 --> 00:13:20.379 you know, disrespect them at your peril, you 00:13:20.379 --> 00:13:22.919 know, and they're different, you know, and I've 00:13:22.919 --> 00:13:24.200 done some police shifts, I've done that stuff, 00:13:24.259 --> 00:13:25.879 but I was like, I've got to be fitter. Like I've 00:13:25.879 --> 00:13:28.460 got to get fitter. So just, just boring weights. 00:13:29.240 --> 00:13:31.279 Waits and listening to your podcast. No jokes. 00:13:31.360 --> 00:13:34.139 It's not even a plug. I'm like, I got bored with 00:13:34.139 --> 00:13:35.820 music. You know, I was like in the same music. 00:13:35.840 --> 00:13:38.840 I was like, well, how can I get James's dulcet 00:13:38.840 --> 00:13:43.899 tones or in the morning? So, um, so yeah, but 00:13:43.899 --> 00:13:46.799 yeah, there you go. Brilliant. Well, I want to 00:13:46.799 --> 00:13:49.419 go back to, I mean, you both, your parents had 00:13:49.419 --> 00:13:51.159 a pretty unique view. Your mother, obviously 00:13:51.159 --> 00:13:54.059 on the health side of the British public, but 00:13:54.059 --> 00:13:58.159 then your father. with one of the schools in 00:13:58.159 --> 00:14:01.820 the roughest area, when you reflect now, I don't 00:14:01.820 --> 00:14:03.480 know if you've had these conversations with him, 00:14:03.659 --> 00:14:07.200 what was some of the underlying common denominators 00:14:07.200 --> 00:14:09.860 that contributed to some of the struggles that 00:14:09.860 --> 00:14:13.080 these kids had when he was teaching? Brilliant 00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:17.480 question. And super simple answer. I think lack 00:14:17.480 --> 00:14:20.220 of confidence, lack of understanding their own 00:14:20.220 --> 00:14:22.580 psychology. They didn't know what they were good 00:14:22.580 --> 00:14:24.799 at. I think you can go through the whole of school. 00:14:25.370 --> 00:14:26.850 And someone goes, what are you good at? And they 00:14:26.850 --> 00:14:29.409 go, I got an A. And that's not a question. What 00:14:29.409 --> 00:14:33.190 are you good at? Like, and worse than that, I 00:14:33.190 --> 00:14:35.549 think kids leave with, and I'm going to generalize 00:14:35.549 --> 00:14:37.649 massively, I'm a huge fan of education and teachers 00:14:37.649 --> 00:14:41.370 are heroes, good teachers are heroes. And people, 00:14:41.549 --> 00:14:46.070 it can brand you with thinking you're stupid. 00:14:46.889 --> 00:14:49.850 Like when, and you just punch out of education, 00:14:50.070 --> 00:14:54.929 like, and it's, yeah, what? colossal impact um 00:14:54.929 --> 00:14:56.769 and then underneath that what we're finding now 00:14:56.769 --> 00:15:01.070 which is um reading and writing and even even 00:15:01.070 --> 00:15:03.169 you know if you learn to academically write you 00:15:03.169 --> 00:15:05.110 know like if that would be great you know like 00:15:05.110 --> 00:15:08.330 fantastic and but i think really reading in particular 00:15:08.330 --> 00:15:10.769 but being able to communicate and then being 00:15:10.769 --> 00:15:14.070 able to listen and you know not just listen to 00:15:14.070 --> 00:15:16.629 a teacher but able to really listen i think a 00:15:16.629 --> 00:15:18.809 lot of people and you know are waiting to speak 00:15:19.710 --> 00:15:22.049 you know and kind of i think it's something and 00:15:22.049 --> 00:15:24.230 it is you know credit where it's due and zero 00:15:24.230 --> 00:15:27.210 bs to you james you know you you there are podcast 00:15:27.210 --> 00:15:31.110 people who are just wait to speak and you do 00:15:31.110 --> 00:15:33.250 listen and you know because it's knackering if 00:15:33.250 --> 00:15:34.830 you're really listening to someone you should 00:15:34.830 --> 00:15:38.830 be exhausted you know um so but yeah no dad was 00:15:38.830 --> 00:15:42.049 also that is awesome you know still here um but 00:15:42.049 --> 00:15:45.129 yeah and his view on education was was incredibly 00:15:45.129 --> 00:15:48.840 powerful and just just you know poor kids aren't 00:15:48.840 --> 00:15:51.220 stupid, you know, like, you know, kids in poverty 00:15:51.220 --> 00:15:54.580 aren't stupid. Like it's, we can do better. And, 00:15:54.580 --> 00:15:57.019 you know, coming up against, it was quite a kind 00:15:57.019 --> 00:15:59.940 of privileged middle -class kid. And then when 00:15:59.940 --> 00:16:01.600 I kind of started working with kids in real, 00:16:01.799 --> 00:16:04.779 you know, who were kind of, one kid called David 00:16:04.779 --> 00:16:07.679 at 11, you know, was eating pet food because 00:16:07.679 --> 00:16:09.320 his mum was, the stuff you see, you know, the 00:16:09.320 --> 00:16:12.159 stuff that you pick up the other end. But yeah, 00:16:12.179 --> 00:16:14.159 and it's normal. And the black collar with, you 00:16:14.159 --> 00:16:16.980 know. and the smell and you know and they're 00:16:16.980 --> 00:16:18.299 doing it you know he's getting up and coming 00:16:18.299 --> 00:16:21.179 in for free breakfast at 5 a .m after he's picked 00:16:21.179 --> 00:16:23.279 his mum up who's you know got a needle hanging 00:16:23.279 --> 00:16:25.100 out of her and done his homework in the morning 00:16:25.100 --> 00:16:27.940 you know and then come to school and you know 00:16:27.940 --> 00:16:29.620 and then gets in a bit of trouble and you're 00:16:29.620 --> 00:16:31.559 like oh he's a delinquent child like hang on 00:16:31.559 --> 00:16:33.659 a second just let's just let's just wind this 00:16:33.659 --> 00:16:38.340 back a little bit um so so yeah yeah i think 00:16:38.340 --> 00:16:40.179 it's it's so important and we'll go to josh to 00:16:40.179 --> 00:16:43.230 get his perspective in a second but this is Not 00:16:43.230 --> 00:16:44.870 plugging my book, but this is what this latest 00:16:44.870 --> 00:16:47.690 book is about. It's the generational trauma. 00:16:47.769 --> 00:16:50.029 It's the environment that not only that child 00:16:50.029 --> 00:16:52.389 grew up in, but the parents grew up in and the 00:16:52.389 --> 00:16:54.470 grandparents grew up and you see this domino 00:16:54.470 --> 00:16:57.269 effect. And what, you know, I think all of us 00:16:57.269 --> 00:17:00.149 have different perspectives on is that we don't 00:17:00.149 --> 00:17:03.330 see the BBC News or CNN or Fox reporting on, 00:17:03.370 --> 00:17:06.349 you know, this air quotes scumbag did this thing. 00:17:06.920 --> 00:17:08.700 you actually get to see, okay, well, what was 00:17:08.700 --> 00:17:10.720 the environment this person grew up in? Did they 00:17:10.720 --> 00:17:12.839 have mentors? Because, I mean, I've had lots 00:17:12.839 --> 00:17:15.259 of people that had very, very checkered backgrounds 00:17:15.259 --> 00:17:18.880 and ended up becoming physicians or Navy SEALs 00:17:18.880 --> 00:17:21.700 or whatever it was. But there's a common denominator. 00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:25.960 Some form of positive mentors found their way 00:17:25.960 --> 00:17:28.579 into their life and helped them turn a corner. 00:17:28.960 --> 00:17:31.519 But if you're growing up in, insert, you know, 00:17:31.519 --> 00:17:34.619 struggling area X, where it's drug slinging and 00:17:34.619 --> 00:17:37.480 violence and gang culture, I've seen it, you 00:17:37.480 --> 00:17:39.440 know, I mean, not that much in England because 00:17:39.440 --> 00:17:41.420 I was a West country and then North London, but 00:17:41.420 --> 00:17:44.059 obviously a lot here. I've scraped them off the 00:17:44.059 --> 00:17:46.680 floor. I've pulled sheets over their heads. You 00:17:46.680 --> 00:17:49.200 see those homes exactly like you're talking about. 00:17:49.640 --> 00:17:52.440 Escalate on the front drive, nothing in the fridge 00:17:52.440 --> 00:17:55.160 and the kids are filthy. And you're like, that 00:17:55.160 --> 00:17:58.039 kid is doomed unless the right person or right 00:17:58.039 --> 00:18:01.619 people start coming into their life. And so understanding 00:18:01.619 --> 00:18:04.839 that we were all once giggling little newborns. 00:18:05.200 --> 00:18:08.299 All of us, every single one. We were all preschoolers 00:18:08.299 --> 00:18:11.400 that found joy chasing balls and watching butterflies. 00:18:11.720 --> 00:18:14.660 And then life happens and then you start to unravel. 00:18:15.279 --> 00:18:18.619 So what I love, for example, in Finland, the 00:18:18.619 --> 00:18:21.900 schools that are struggling, they actually pour 00:18:21.900 --> 00:18:24.759 more money and support into those areas because 00:18:24.759 --> 00:18:26.539 they understand that the school is probably going 00:18:26.539 --> 00:18:29.220 to have to take some of the slack from what's 00:18:29.220 --> 00:18:31.799 not happening in the homes. What we have here 00:18:31.799 --> 00:18:34.119 is the schools that are struggling are penalized. 00:18:34.490 --> 00:18:36.609 And their money is taken away from them. So it 00:18:36.609 --> 00:18:39.170 couldn't be more opposite of what we should be 00:18:39.170 --> 00:18:45.269 doing. Yeah, couldn't agree more. I think there's 00:18:45.269 --> 00:18:47.769 a bigger question in there. And it's just one 00:18:47.769 --> 00:18:49.410 big book plug, isn't it, Joe? But yeah, I wrote 00:18:49.410 --> 00:18:52.009 a book called Demanufactured back when I was 00:18:52.009 --> 00:18:54.190 a kind of teenage mutant ninja teacher thinking 00:18:54.190 --> 00:18:58.700 I knew. Ridiculous. It's embarrassing. But, you 00:18:58.700 --> 00:19:00.519 know, when it was against, and it's one of my 00:19:00.519 --> 00:19:03.380 tattoos for Noam Chomsky and stuff, saying about, 00:19:03.460 --> 00:19:05.700 you know, school's a manufacturing process, isn't 00:19:05.700 --> 00:19:07.160 it? It's like, you know, you kind of, kids enter 00:19:07.160 --> 00:19:09.160 and you're going to be manufactured into something, 00:19:09.279 --> 00:19:12.940 you know, it was called demanufactured. And what 00:19:12.940 --> 00:19:15.579 does it, how would, like you said, it's a system 00:19:15.579 --> 00:19:18.099 thing. You know, it's like, like I watched Josh, 00:19:18.140 --> 00:19:21.880 you watch Josh work and he walks through the 00:19:21.880 --> 00:19:25.519 prison. And, you know, and I watch people's positive 00:19:25.519 --> 00:19:28.640 interactions, you know, like these little bombs 00:19:28.640 --> 00:19:31.000 that are going off, positivity bombs, just doof, 00:19:31.000 --> 00:19:32.460 doof, doof, doof, doof, doof, doof, doof, doof. 00:19:32.720 --> 00:19:34.160 And they're everywhere, you know, like, and, 00:19:34.220 --> 00:19:35.779 you know, most of them are on your podcast, James, 00:19:35.859 --> 00:19:38.140 you know, like it's people who, whether it's 00:19:38.140 --> 00:19:39.680 military or police or kind of whatever, who, 00:19:39.680 --> 00:19:43.059 you know, have that optimism and stigmatized. 00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:44.859 And it's interesting, isn't it? You know, as, 00:19:45.019 --> 00:19:47.940 as three blokes, you know, and me and you, James, 00:19:47.940 --> 00:19:50.480 we put in the words weaponized and angry. Because 00:19:50.480 --> 00:19:52.619 it's, it's not a thing. We're not, you don't, 00:19:52.619 --> 00:19:54.259 you don't say that as a guy. That's not, that's, 00:19:54.259 --> 00:19:55.859 you know, you need to be tough. You need to be 00:19:55.859 --> 00:19:59.339 like, it's like, actually to me, absolutely. 00:19:59.339 --> 00:20:01.579 What's really tough is you can be a light in 00:20:01.579 --> 00:20:05.240 the dark for someone. And, you know, I am nothing 00:20:05.240 --> 00:20:07.400 compared to you two and have, you know, what 00:20:07.400 --> 00:20:10.480 you guys can do and have done, you know, and, 00:20:10.480 --> 00:20:13.960 you know, and the way we treat people who are. 00:20:14.440 --> 00:20:17.160 being lights in the dark in such such abysses 00:20:17.160 --> 00:20:19.900 like whether it's a home with needles and you 00:20:19.900 --> 00:20:23.819 know that smell just the smell of like real poverty 00:20:23.819 --> 00:20:26.980 and real abuse you know like you and you know 00:20:26.980 --> 00:20:29.019 you walk in you can smell there's been sexual 00:20:29.019 --> 00:20:32.160 abuse it's just disgusting and yeah you're right 00:20:32.160 --> 00:20:33.700 you know and if you can go in there and it's 00:20:33.700 --> 00:20:35.740 it's a great lead into kind of this and lego 00:20:35.740 --> 00:20:39.079 and stuff like i do not give an f like what people 00:20:39.079 --> 00:20:40.940 think and like yeah playing with lego or whatever 00:20:40.940 --> 00:20:43.619 it's like watch watch it work just watch that 00:20:43.619 --> 00:20:46.220 work, the grounds of optimism and stuff, you 00:20:46.220 --> 00:20:48.900 know, and if, if you can't communicate and get 00:20:48.900 --> 00:20:51.160 to a child, it's a waste of time. You know, if 00:20:51.160 --> 00:20:53.500 it doesn't, if it, you know, every piece of firefighter 00:20:53.500 --> 00:20:55.900 equipment, every, you know, just what you're 00:20:55.900 --> 00:20:57.960 saying, Parvo, it was Parvo, wasn't it, the spray? 00:20:58.700 --> 00:21:01.000 Yeah. Is that right? Yeah. Every piece of equipment, 00:21:01.140 --> 00:21:03.500 yeah, great. If it doesn't, if it's not, if it 00:21:03.500 --> 00:21:05.279 doesn't work at the, you know, with the right 00:21:05.279 --> 00:21:06.940 person at the right time with the right stuff, 00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:08.539 you've wasted time. Do you know, like, you know, 00:21:08.539 --> 00:21:10.180 I tried hard, then why won't you try? Like, does 00:21:10.180 --> 00:21:13.230 it work? Does it work and does it last? you know 00:21:13.230 --> 00:21:17.190 and i think if um more of the education system 00:21:17.190 --> 00:21:19.089 just was like right look is it working is it 00:21:19.089 --> 00:21:21.849 lasting well no and no well okay well let's do 00:21:21.849 --> 00:21:25.710 something like rapid rapidly do something so 00:21:25.710 --> 00:21:30.210 yeah agree beautiful well josh this excuse me 00:21:30.210 --> 00:21:32.670 this lens that you have now working in the world 00:21:32.670 --> 00:21:36.400 of corrections That same question, origin stories. 00:21:36.559 --> 00:21:38.740 Now, a lot of these kids that are behind bars, 00:21:38.960 --> 00:21:40.299 you know, they're a little bit older. They've 00:21:40.299 --> 00:21:43.299 been deeper into whatever led them down the opposite 00:21:43.299 --> 00:21:46.980 side of the criminal line. What do you see, again, 00:21:47.059 --> 00:21:49.619 as far as origin stories of them when they were 00:21:49.619 --> 00:21:52.660 young, if they're able to tell the story? I think 00:21:52.660 --> 00:21:55.059 you're right with like positive mentors and stuff 00:21:55.059 --> 00:21:57.039 like that. A lot of people that we do see did 00:21:57.039 --> 00:22:01.819 have that absent in their youth. you know we 00:22:01.819 --> 00:22:05.940 see sort of multi -generational families in prison 00:22:05.940 --> 00:22:08.779 you know he's in jail and his dad's also in jail 00:22:08.779 --> 00:22:14.140 or you know his mum or or you know they're for 00:22:14.140 --> 00:22:16.759 some of them it's all they know because it's 00:22:16.759 --> 00:22:17.859 all they've lived with particularly in their 00:22:17.859 --> 00:22:20.599 youth as well and they i don't think they really 00:22:20.599 --> 00:22:23.750 had that support there to kind of guide them 00:22:23.750 --> 00:22:25.710 down that right path you know they they weren't 00:22:25.710 --> 00:22:28.390 shown how to do something the right way they 00:22:28.390 --> 00:22:29.769 might have only been shown how to do it the wrong 00:22:29.769 --> 00:22:32.650 way you know so i i think it's positive role 00:22:32.650 --> 00:22:34.309 models as you were saying are massively massively 00:22:34.309 --> 00:22:38.650 important important with excuse me i lost my 00:22:38.650 --> 00:22:42.720 word with preventing people ending up in situations 00:22:42.720 --> 00:22:44.759 where they end up in prisons, where they end 00:22:44.759 --> 00:22:47.559 up involved with the gangs and the crime and 00:22:47.559 --> 00:22:51.380 stuff like that. So, yeah, definitely getting 00:22:51.380 --> 00:22:55.059 some more positivity in youth as well, because 00:22:55.059 --> 00:22:59.259 I talk like I'm 100 years old when I say it, 00:22:59.279 --> 00:23:01.700 but I feel like the youth of today is vastly 00:23:01.700 --> 00:23:03.359 different from when I was young, and that wasn't 00:23:03.359 --> 00:23:06.980 even really that long ago. So, you know, it's, 00:23:06.980 --> 00:23:10.799 I think... Like you said, getting into schools 00:23:10.799 --> 00:23:13.200 now especially, give them more money, get the 00:23:13.200 --> 00:23:14.980 positivity in there, get the support in there, 00:23:15.039 --> 00:23:17.779 let people work out what they're... Because we've 00:23:17.779 --> 00:23:20.799 seen people come through the system who, again, 00:23:20.859 --> 00:23:23.359 you say, right, what are you good at, that question, 00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:25.960 and they go, well, I don't really know. But at 00:23:25.960 --> 00:23:28.279 the same time, you can sit there and watch them 00:23:28.279 --> 00:23:30.900 draw a picture and they're actually a fantastic 00:23:30.900 --> 00:23:34.220 artist or they can make things and they can do 00:23:34.220 --> 00:23:36.319 all these things, but they don't know how to 00:23:36.319 --> 00:23:39.730 apply it into... normal everyday life so for 00:23:39.730 --> 00:23:43.009 them it's this absolute gold mine skill that 00:23:43.009 --> 00:23:45.569 sadly they just can't can't use for any benefit 00:23:45.569 --> 00:23:50.490 um so yeah then james can i jump please please 00:23:50.490 --> 00:23:55.089 okay 100 right so kind of you know linking this 00:23:55.089 --> 00:23:58.220 together a bit so kind of um and dad would do 00:23:58.220 --> 00:24:00.019 briefings right okay because i got to work in 00:24:00.019 --> 00:24:01.680 his school before he sat me which is brilliant 00:24:01.680 --> 00:24:03.619 okay like amazing he's like you're too close 00:24:03.619 --> 00:24:05.619 and you know you're my son and we can't do this 00:24:05.619 --> 00:24:08.359 which is hugely hilarious he used to do briefings 00:24:08.359 --> 00:24:11.019 on a monday morning and his thing was like i 00:24:11.019 --> 00:24:13.500 want my teachers laughing and i was like i want 00:24:13.500 --> 00:24:15.599 them laughing at half past eight so when they 00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:19.920 spill out into the school these kids meet a smiling 00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:23.599 positive teacher so i don't care no result no 00:24:23.599 --> 00:24:26.519 like how to start there we'll do we'll get the 00:24:26.519 --> 00:24:28.420 tough stuff done as well i said start positive 00:24:28.420 --> 00:24:31.039 and just i was like this is crackers and i thought 00:24:31.039 --> 00:24:33.400 all schools were like this i was like 19 you 00:24:33.400 --> 00:24:35.980 know kind of 20 looking at this um and i think 00:24:35.980 --> 00:24:38.059 it's the same you know i'm seeing the same thing 00:24:38.059 --> 00:24:39.980 in prisons and stuff of like what are you good 00:24:39.980 --> 00:24:42.680 at like where do you even start um and there's 00:24:42.680 --> 00:24:44.720 kind of two points one about you know the allure 00:24:44.720 --> 00:24:50.089 of the darkness because yes optimism but people 00:24:50.089 --> 00:24:53.250 cannot help but be drawn to the dark why are 00:24:53.250 --> 00:24:54.789 we watching documentaries on prisons why are 00:24:54.789 --> 00:24:56.210 we here why are we all here you know like what's 00:24:56.210 --> 00:25:01.910 what's cool it's cool and then you kind of like 00:25:01.910 --> 00:25:04.410 you hook someone in and before you know it then 00:25:04.410 --> 00:25:09.250 and um the quote that and i heard it from a guy 00:25:09.250 --> 00:25:12.349 in florida called doug monday like massive shout 00:25:12.349 --> 00:25:14.289 out he's on my linkedin somewhere and he goes 00:25:14.289 --> 00:25:16.329 around do you know what i'm talking about yeah 00:25:16.329 --> 00:25:18.269 yeah yeah no we've been on each other's podcast 00:25:18.269 --> 00:25:21.650 he's an amazing guy right okay okay fantastic 00:25:21.650 --> 00:25:24.190 yeah so like swap team dude right and he came 00:25:24.190 --> 00:25:27.150 to north carolina and and ended up on my previous 00:25:27.150 --> 00:25:30.009 businesses course and i got in he was doing an 00:25:30.009 --> 00:25:31.950 intro and got him to do a little talk bit and 00:25:31.950 --> 00:25:34.710 the first slide he put up which he probably talked 00:25:34.710 --> 00:25:36.109 about and now i'm embarrassed i haven't seen 00:25:36.109 --> 00:25:37.849 the podcast but whatever didn't do my homework 00:25:37.849 --> 00:25:40.690 and now it was super old so no you're forgiven 00:25:40.690 --> 00:25:43.680 it's buried way back there Okay, so good. And 00:25:43.680 --> 00:25:48.480 you're like 64, so it's fine. I think it's a 00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:50.140 need to quote and get this right out because 00:25:50.140 --> 00:25:55.099 it's live. He or she who fights with monsters, 00:25:55.279 --> 00:25:57.900 you know, beware in that, you know, for as long 00:25:57.900 --> 00:25:59.980 as you gaze into the abyss, the abyss begins 00:25:59.980 --> 00:26:04.289 to gaze back into you. I was like I don't know 00:26:04.289 --> 00:26:06.210 who you are but we're getting married like that 00:26:06.210 --> 00:26:09.589 is that is exactly it so you're talking about 00:26:09.589 --> 00:26:11.190 the kind of generational trauma stuff whatever 00:26:11.190 --> 00:26:14.809 and I think it's the the power of the positive 00:26:14.809 --> 00:26:17.690 it's the dark that defines the light you know 00:26:17.690 --> 00:26:20.549 like a match is so bright if if the room is black 00:26:20.549 --> 00:26:22.869 but if it's in the sun you don't even see it 00:26:22.869 --> 00:26:26.029 and I think it's that being a light in the dark 00:26:26.029 --> 00:26:27.970 everyone can it's great you know it's all good 00:26:27.970 --> 00:26:30.220 but it's going well you know which is why i think 00:26:30.220 --> 00:26:32.539 what both of you guys do is incredible you know 00:26:32.539 --> 00:26:35.319 but i think there's there's attraction in that 00:26:35.319 --> 00:26:36.960 there's attraction you know we're called stealth 00:26:36.960 --> 00:26:39.420 in a company called stuff and then we've got 00:26:39.420 --> 00:26:41.619 yeah and then whatever it's not nice fluffy lego 00:26:41.619 --> 00:26:45.440 bricks save lives you know like and i think it's 00:26:45.440 --> 00:26:46.940 and i think coming from that broadening build 00:26:46.940 --> 00:26:49.200 thing of like bad is always going to win it's 00:26:49.200 --> 00:26:50.720 three to one it's always we're never going to 00:26:50.720 --> 00:26:52.480 win this you know like we're going to die we're 00:26:52.480 --> 00:26:55.410 all way out you know rapidly going towards our 00:26:55.410 --> 00:26:57.730 death date, you know, like, and declining. So 00:26:57.730 --> 00:26:59.730 like, what's the point? You know, all that kind 00:26:59.730 --> 00:27:02.950 of stuff. But I think we can use the dark. And 00:27:02.950 --> 00:27:04.490 I think it's kind of a lot of the psychology 00:27:04.490 --> 00:27:08.250 and the positive psychology behind where stealth 00:27:08.250 --> 00:27:10.769 came from. And, you know, we wanted to make a 00:27:10.769 --> 00:27:14.369 de -escalation tool that was bulletproof, you 00:27:14.369 --> 00:27:16.309 know, that we could go into any dark situation. 00:27:17.580 --> 00:27:19.660 And wasn't a psychological tool, you know, it 00:27:19.660 --> 00:27:21.240 was a kind of, it was a communication tool and 00:27:21.240 --> 00:27:24.119 it was used in the subconscious and how would 00:27:24.119 --> 00:27:27.680 this work? And, but we can't deny the dark. I 00:27:27.680 --> 00:27:29.420 think this thing, we're so scared. I think the 00:27:29.420 --> 00:27:31.160 psychological community with so much respect 00:27:31.160 --> 00:27:33.720 to them, we're so scared of making a mistake 00:27:33.720 --> 00:27:35.559 of, you know, we're going to, we're going to 00:27:35.559 --> 00:27:36.900 tweak something. Someone's going to die or like, 00:27:36.920 --> 00:27:38.920 we're going to help a prisoner and then the prison 00:27:38.920 --> 00:27:41.079 is going to kill themselves. Yeah, they are. 00:27:42.160 --> 00:27:44.839 And if you do nothing, it's going to be a million 00:27:44.839 --> 00:27:47.720 times worse. omelette and eggs here is like where 00:27:47.720 --> 00:27:49.680 are the people who are trying to do something 00:27:49.680 --> 00:27:52.359 who are kind of taking that and being brave enough 00:27:52.359 --> 00:27:53.759 to go into the dark and kind of whatever and 00:27:53.759 --> 00:27:55.900 the answer is either the abyss will swallow them 00:27:55.900 --> 00:27:59.640 up whole you know and they will start drinking 00:27:59.640 --> 00:28:02.599 or losing themselves or they'll lose their you 00:28:02.599 --> 00:28:05.359 know capacity and or they'll be hit with so much 00:28:05.359 --> 00:28:08.220 red tape you know and i mean you are you are 00:28:08.220 --> 00:28:10.039 literally the poster child for that you're trying 00:28:10.039 --> 00:28:12.240 to do something and just nope nope nope nope 00:28:12.240 --> 00:28:16.450 um And then that goes on a macro kind of sociological 00:28:16.450 --> 00:28:18.450 level to money and power, isn't it? You know, 00:28:18.470 --> 00:28:20.309 it's like, I'm going to make the education system 00:28:20.309 --> 00:28:22.930 like I was at Oxford. No, I wasn't at Oxford, 00:28:22.990 --> 00:28:25.430 but you know, whatever. And it's going to be, 00:28:25.430 --> 00:28:27.210 you know, G to C, A, it's not even that, it's 00:28:27.210 --> 00:28:29.289 one to nine, but you know, you will study Shakespeare 00:28:29.289 --> 00:28:30.750 and you will do this and you will do that. And 00:28:30.750 --> 00:28:32.690 I'm like, okay, not knocking Shakespeare, but 00:28:32.690 --> 00:28:34.250 I'm like, come on, come on, come on, come on. 00:28:34.869 --> 00:28:38.869 So yeah. Brilliant. Yeah. It's funny when you 00:28:38.869 --> 00:28:41.250 talk about Shakespeare, I saw a speech the other 00:28:41.250 --> 00:28:44.609 day and it was, you know, why, why is he such 00:28:44.609 --> 00:28:47.430 a well -known author? And they were saying that 00:28:47.430 --> 00:28:49.650 when we were colonizing most of the world and 00:28:49.650 --> 00:28:51.769 then teaching them English, that was on the required 00:28:51.769 --> 00:28:54.470 text. So the whole thing was, is Shakespeare 00:28:54.470 --> 00:28:57.289 actually that good? Or was he just thrust upon 00:28:57.289 --> 00:29:00.190 everyone and we were told he is important, study 00:29:00.190 --> 00:29:02.710 him. I was like, huh. I never really resonated 00:29:02.710 --> 00:29:05.710 with it personally. So, but yeah, I mean, you 00:29:05.710 --> 00:29:08.369 know, how much literature from around the world 00:29:08.369 --> 00:29:10.890 is really woven into, at least in my generation, 00:29:10.890 --> 00:29:13.279 I went to school in the 80s in England. I don't 00:29:13.279 --> 00:29:15.140 remember there being a lot of kind of international 00:29:15.140 --> 00:29:19.299 literature. So even within education itself, 00:29:19.480 --> 00:29:21.900 it's kind of a very narrow field that we're taught. 00:29:23.420 --> 00:29:25.359 Absolutely. And I think you can bring it right 00:29:25.359 --> 00:29:27.519 around to prisons. You know, Josh, I'm like, 00:29:27.559 --> 00:29:29.160 I'm really interested in what your take is on 00:29:29.160 --> 00:29:32.599 this. But like, I think it's a very common thing. 00:29:32.740 --> 00:29:35.579 And I'm going to, you know, I'm scared to assume 00:29:35.579 --> 00:29:36.819 or generalize. I'm going to throw it out there, 00:29:36.859 --> 00:29:38.380 Josh, and tell me I'm wrong. All right. But like, 00:29:38.420 --> 00:29:42.180 you know, I wasn't very good at school, meaning. 00:29:42.619 --> 00:29:44.460 I didn't get Shakespeare and I couldn't do maths. 00:29:45.700 --> 00:29:49.980 Hang on, hang on, you know, and the damage done 00:29:49.980 --> 00:29:52.740 from that work, I must be thick. So I will commit 00:29:52.740 --> 00:29:55.480 crime, you know, or I've got to eat or I live 00:29:55.480 --> 00:29:57.500 in one of those houses and it stinks and I have 00:29:57.500 --> 00:29:59.759 to get food. Or if I don't get any money, my 00:29:59.759 --> 00:30:02.559 mum's going to get beaten up or raped or whatever. 00:30:02.680 --> 00:30:06.660 So it's, so whose fault is it? You know, and 00:30:06.660 --> 00:30:08.900 then at the other end, when there's kind of the 00:30:08.900 --> 00:30:11.640 prisoners come out. well they're scum or they're 00:30:11.640 --> 00:30:13.119 this that the other or they've you know they're 00:30:13.119 --> 00:30:15.359 terrible people or kind of you're like well hang 00:30:15.359 --> 00:30:18.119 on we're all in prison all of us are in prison 00:30:18.119 --> 00:30:20.119 and the more I see the more I'm kind of getting 00:30:20.119 --> 00:30:22.259 this I'm like you know it might be a relationship 00:30:22.259 --> 00:30:25.539 it might be you know you are the wife of someone 00:30:25.539 --> 00:30:29.019 who's controlling you it might be drink it might 00:30:29.019 --> 00:30:32.000 be you know whatever and we're so quick to judge 00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:37.039 be like And I was. I was an arsehole. And even, 00:30:37.079 --> 00:30:39.460 you know, about 15 years ago, I kind of made 00:30:39.460 --> 00:30:41.220 the turn and started becoming a semi -decent 00:30:41.220 --> 00:30:44.160 dude. But, like, yeah, we are. We're set up to 00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:46.819 judge on which quick hits, quick Insta hits of, 00:30:46.880 --> 00:30:48.660 like, oh, there you are at this. Or, you know, 00:30:48.660 --> 00:30:50.460 social media, you are at this. Or you're firefighters. 00:30:50.680 --> 00:30:52.200 Oh, yeah, well, they're all lazy water fairies. 00:30:52.259 --> 00:30:53.980 I mean, that one's true. Let's just go with that. 00:30:55.640 --> 00:30:58.940 But, yeah. And then what grinds my gears the 00:30:58.940 --> 00:31:01.519 most and, you know, the reason why, you know. 00:31:01.849 --> 00:31:04.269 And Josh was so brave to kind of come and do 00:31:04.269 --> 00:31:07.190 this. And why are prison officers continually 00:31:07.190 --> 00:31:10.789 getting a kick in? Like, continually. And I'm 00:31:10.789 --> 00:31:13.210 like, do it for a day. We said this, didn't we, 00:31:13.250 --> 00:31:14.369 when we were walking out of prison? Do it for 00:31:14.369 --> 00:31:17.589 a day. Just one. You know, or come on the fire 00:31:17.589 --> 00:31:20.529 truck. Just one. Just one. Take one dead body. 00:31:20.750 --> 00:31:23.630 Just one. In fact, you know, no blood. Just one. 00:31:23.750 --> 00:31:26.430 Just one. And then when you wake up at three 00:31:26.430 --> 00:31:29.490 in the morning in a cold sweat, because it's 00:31:29.490 --> 00:31:33.359 merged into your psyche, And you can't unsee 00:31:33.359 --> 00:31:36.700 what you saw in the abyss. And you did one day. 00:31:38.140 --> 00:31:40.980 Then you can judge, you know, even one day, then 00:31:40.980 --> 00:31:44.759 judge. But, you know, I think this capacity to 00:31:44.759 --> 00:31:47.279 people who kind of fight with monsters, work 00:31:47.279 --> 00:31:49.980 with monsters, you know, and in the prison system 00:31:49.980 --> 00:31:53.599 and correction system, you know, are so quick 00:31:53.599 --> 00:31:56.859 to judge. You know, and, you know, I think it 00:31:56.859 --> 00:31:59.460 was a different prison, Loudoun Grange, which 00:31:59.460 --> 00:32:01.160 I must, James, if I forget, I have to give a 00:32:01.160 --> 00:32:03.539 shout out to Loudoun Grange or they will rip 00:32:03.539 --> 00:32:07.039 me a new one, right? Great prison. And we're 00:32:07.039 --> 00:32:10.380 talking about good murderers, like a really interesting 00:32:10.380 --> 00:32:12.000 concept of like kind of what's going on there, 00:32:12.039 --> 00:32:14.960 good murderers. And I was like, what? Murdering's 00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:16.720 really bad, really? Because the military get 00:32:16.720 --> 00:32:19.660 paid for it, you know, and they get medals for 00:32:19.660 --> 00:32:23.680 killing people. And then there's one guy in particular 00:32:23.680 --> 00:32:25.660 who, you know, obviously won't say his name or 00:32:25.660 --> 00:32:27.799 give the kind of details, too many details. But, 00:32:27.839 --> 00:32:29.859 you know, there was this guy outside his house 00:32:29.859 --> 00:32:33.279 and he was terrorizing his kids for months, months 00:32:33.279 --> 00:32:34.539 and months and months and months and months and 00:32:34.539 --> 00:32:36.500 months and months. And he used the police and 00:32:36.500 --> 00:32:38.119 he tried to get everything. And then one day 00:32:38.119 --> 00:32:39.799 he was like, I'm just going to batter this guy. 00:32:40.519 --> 00:32:44.259 And did. Didn't mean to kill him. And he died. 00:32:44.859 --> 00:32:48.450 And now he's in. And now he's happily. He's like, 00:32:48.529 --> 00:32:50.650 I killed someone and I'm paying for it and I'm 00:32:50.650 --> 00:32:54.369 sorry. And I'd do it again because I was protecting 00:32:54.369 --> 00:33:01.890 my children. How do you... Yeah, you did it. 00:33:02.210 --> 00:33:04.509 But then, you know, you walk in his cell and 00:33:04.509 --> 00:33:08.210 it's full of examples of where he's become a 00:33:08.210 --> 00:33:11.009 Samaritan's listener and he's helping people 00:33:11.009 --> 00:33:14.619 and he's on a particular wing. that is now having 00:33:14.619 --> 00:33:16.960 you know legacy was playing stealth rolled out 00:33:16.960 --> 00:33:19.259 across the whole wing and he's like i'm gonna 00:33:19.259 --> 00:33:22.359 lead this and i'm gonna not only come out a better 00:33:22.359 --> 00:33:25.480 person i'm gonna help every single person who 00:33:25.480 --> 00:33:28.960 struggles in this cell with lego and it sounds 00:33:28.960 --> 00:33:30.779 like it's not meant as a plug and stuff but like 00:33:30.779 --> 00:33:33.680 this as opposed to you know a bad murder you 00:33:33.680 --> 00:33:35.319 know and what is okay so what's a bad murder 00:33:35.319 --> 00:33:37.900 is that someone who premeditately goes off and 00:33:37.900 --> 00:33:42.019 kind of um you know, we've just hired someone 00:33:42.019 --> 00:33:45.839 and she's, you know, works in a female prison. 00:33:46.559 --> 00:33:48.680 And, you know, it was kind of described to me 00:33:48.680 --> 00:33:50.640 as a zoo. And I was like, I think the male prison 00:33:50.640 --> 00:33:52.359 is a zoo. I think a female prison is Jurassic 00:33:52.359 --> 00:33:55.599 Park. There's something really scary about that. 00:33:55.660 --> 00:33:59.640 Like something about kind of like, and I'm nervous. 00:33:59.759 --> 00:34:02.299 I think she is nails and she knows who she is. 00:34:02.380 --> 00:34:05.220 I'm watching this for like, that's hard. That's 00:34:05.220 --> 00:34:07.839 a hard person. You know, the mother and baby 00:34:07.839 --> 00:34:12.920 unit. on a baby that's born in a prison, you 00:34:12.920 --> 00:34:15.980 know, we're talking about, you know, and yeah, 00:34:16.099 --> 00:34:17.619 and this is, and I come back to it, you know, 00:34:17.659 --> 00:34:20.280 Josh, to me, I mean, talking about my dad, like 00:34:20.280 --> 00:34:22.380 I used to call my dad a hero. He still is. I 00:34:22.380 --> 00:34:23.920 mean, he's off, you know, having loads of fun 00:34:23.920 --> 00:34:27.199 now because he's retired, but Josh is my hero. 00:34:28.069 --> 00:34:30.309 I say as it is. And I think we kind of struggle 00:34:30.309 --> 00:34:32.630 to talk positively. And, you know, I'm sure many 00:34:32.630 --> 00:34:34.210 men watching this, everybody were like, well, 00:34:34.329 --> 00:34:36.690 this is getting a bit weird, like whatever. And 00:34:36.690 --> 00:34:38.230 this thing of like, we only say that kind of 00:34:38.230 --> 00:34:40.679 stuff when someone dies. And just I'm just not 00:34:40.679 --> 00:34:42.079 having it. You know, it's like, you know, well, 00:34:42.219 --> 00:34:44.960 you know, Josh was my hero. But since he got 00:34:44.960 --> 00:34:47.199 stabbed in the neck, you know, and had a kind 00:34:47.199 --> 00:34:48.940 of bunch of hot oil poured over him because he 00:34:48.940 --> 00:34:51.559 made one mistake in a prisoner and the prisoner 00:34:51.559 --> 00:34:53.320 had a thing against white men and was off his 00:34:53.320 --> 00:34:55.559 face on spice. And, you know, Josh, his face 00:34:55.559 --> 00:34:58.159 melted off. But, you know, he was my hero. I'm 00:34:58.159 --> 00:35:01.219 saying it now. Like, yeah, I've seen it and I've 00:35:01.219 --> 00:35:03.139 watched him. And I think we kind of were so bad. 00:35:03.440 --> 00:35:05.639 The Americans are way better at this from what 00:35:05.639 --> 00:35:09.730 I've seen. at just saying the positive but without 00:35:09.730 --> 00:35:12.050 getting weird about it you know being able to 00:35:12.050 --> 00:35:14.230 be concise and detailed and say it you know and 00:35:14.230 --> 00:35:16.590 so like josh you know i'm just gonna do it whether 00:35:16.590 --> 00:35:19.170 so you're gonna blush but nobody's watching man 00:35:19.170 --> 00:35:22.230 so it's not like it's being recorded um and you 00:35:22.230 --> 00:35:24.210 know this and this to me is like why i'm so passionate 00:35:24.210 --> 00:35:25.869 about psychology in the dark i don't want to 00:35:25.869 --> 00:35:29.110 i don't you know and you know okay we'll go we'll 00:35:29.110 --> 00:35:30.489 start at the beginning right okay so like you 00:35:30.489 --> 00:35:32.699 know i think you know we say are you all right 00:35:32.699 --> 00:35:33.920 yeah everyone all right yeah james you're right 00:35:33.920 --> 00:35:36.639 yeah yeah are you yeah yeah you know not so bad 00:35:36.639 --> 00:35:40.059 i'm good but even in the states you know how 00:35:40.059 --> 00:35:41.940 you do it yeah i'm good yeah i'm good i'm good 00:35:41.940 --> 00:35:43.840 that's zero right and think you know and then 00:35:43.840 --> 00:35:45.519 something happens a suicide happens or we get 00:35:45.519 --> 00:35:47.900 upset or you know whatever drop to minus one 00:35:47.900 --> 00:35:49.980 minus five minus ten yeah say minus ten is actually 00:35:49.980 --> 00:35:53.460 killing yourself all the therapy all the psychology 00:35:53.460 --> 00:35:55.840 all everything that's been made is designed to 00:35:55.840 --> 00:35:59.139 get you back to nought I don't want to live my 00:35:59.139 --> 00:36:00.820 life at naught, for starters, but this light 00:36:00.820 --> 00:36:02.500 in the dark thing, what does it look like at 00:36:02.500 --> 00:36:05.960 plus one? What does that look like? And plus 00:36:05.960 --> 00:36:08.139 five. And if you're at plus five and you take 00:36:08.139 --> 00:36:11.579 a hit like a suicide, maybe if we could aim to 00:36:11.579 --> 00:36:14.780 be at maybe plus three, between zero to plus 00:36:14.780 --> 00:36:17.559 three to kind of minus one, then when you take 00:36:17.559 --> 00:36:19.920 the hit, you're going to be coming back up. to 00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:22.820 that rather than trying to hit, just hit nought 00:36:22.820 --> 00:36:25.440 and, you know, not happening. And yeah. And so 00:36:25.440 --> 00:36:27.199 we've been doing this bit of this on the course 00:36:27.199 --> 00:36:28.599 and saying, if you're going to do something called 00:36:28.599 --> 00:36:30.599 a reflective best self. So if I'm going to praise 00:36:30.599 --> 00:36:33.500 Josh, I'd be like, Josh, thanks very much for 00:36:33.500 --> 00:36:34.920 giving up your Friday evening because that's 00:36:34.920 --> 00:36:38.619 what it is here. Valuable pub time, you know, 00:36:38.639 --> 00:36:42.139 with the one that you love, you know, to talk 00:36:42.139 --> 00:36:45.460 to this clown in the US and, you know, me about 00:36:45.460 --> 00:36:49.110 work on your day off to make it happen. okay 00:36:49.110 --> 00:36:53.030 well that's pretty good and cool you know but 00:36:53.030 --> 00:36:55.170 even then it's bland it's a bit craft it's you 00:36:55.170 --> 00:36:57.449 know yeah thanks al for embarrassing me in public 00:36:57.449 --> 00:37:00.389 yeah appreciate it um and then we do this and 00:37:00.389 --> 00:37:03.130 i say you know and i'd write it as well because 00:37:03.130 --> 00:37:05.030 he's not going to remember it and josh i know 00:37:05.030 --> 00:37:06.849 he's going to talk a little bit about when he 00:37:06.849 --> 00:37:09.170 plays with lego without um and we go into the 00:37:09.170 --> 00:37:11.269 subconscious and he basically it's some houdini 00:37:11.269 --> 00:37:12.570 thing and he doesn't know where he is anymore 00:37:12.570 --> 00:37:16.889 which is good um but as opposed to this dear 00:37:16.889 --> 00:37:22.119 josh The fact that you are willing to go on record 00:37:22.119 --> 00:37:28.500 when the prison service is on its knees and prison 00:37:28.500 --> 00:37:33.139 officers are killing themselves to back what 00:37:33.139 --> 00:37:36.679 I've done and done with Lego, I'm not crying, 00:37:36.860 --> 00:37:43.940 means the absolute world. And when we sat there 00:37:43.940 --> 00:37:47.780 on Wednesday... And I shared with you how exhausted 00:37:47.780 --> 00:37:51.059 I am and how much I'm struggling. And you said 00:37:51.059 --> 00:37:53.059 what you said and your colleague said what he 00:37:53.059 --> 00:37:57.900 said with his multiple children. I was so close 00:37:57.900 --> 00:38:00.980 to giving up after what happened, you know, and 00:38:00.980 --> 00:38:02.880 the kind of stretching and kind of what happened. 00:38:02.980 --> 00:38:07.059 And I don't know how you go in every day with 00:38:07.059 --> 00:38:08.920 the threat of that. And then to find out that 00:38:08.920 --> 00:38:11.019 then, you know, the pressures of all the other 00:38:11.019 --> 00:38:15.829 stuff that happens. You've given me enough mojo 00:38:15.829 --> 00:38:19.050 to keep going. And I respect what you do. And 00:38:19.050 --> 00:38:24.349 if you're not a hero and the kids aren't looking 00:38:24.349 --> 00:38:26.250 at people like you and James, and you too, James, 00:38:26.349 --> 00:38:30.650 right? So who are they looking at? A rap artist? 00:38:30.949 --> 00:38:34.269 Someone who's glamorised violence? Or an Instagram 00:38:34.269 --> 00:38:37.550 star? Or something pornographic, borderline pornographic? 00:38:38.269 --> 00:38:42.489 And I saw the cup of hidden heroes and that stuff. 00:38:43.320 --> 00:38:45.440 I said, and I don't think they should be hidden. 00:38:45.559 --> 00:38:48.539 And, you know, full circle to education. Why 00:38:48.539 --> 00:38:52.280 are we not having people like you two and holding 00:38:52.280 --> 00:38:54.639 you up as role models? Not the best, because 00:38:54.639 --> 00:38:56.519 you're both clowns. And we'll just bring this 00:38:56.519 --> 00:38:57.840 down, because it's getting a little bit tense 00:38:57.840 --> 00:39:00.579 and emotional here. Why are we not holding that 00:39:00.579 --> 00:39:05.300 up to David, who's eating cat food and saying, 00:39:05.300 --> 00:39:06.980 I want to be that. Like, I want to be a prison 00:39:06.980 --> 00:39:09.760 officer. Like, I want to do that. I want to save 00:39:09.760 --> 00:39:12.309 somebody's life. Or I want to be a James. I want 00:39:12.309 --> 00:39:15.030 to be fighting the system as hard as I can and 00:39:15.030 --> 00:39:18.010 doing it and potentially sacrificing my life 00:39:18.010 --> 00:39:22.309 for that. So that's why you're my hero. Standard. 00:39:23.409 --> 00:39:25.829 So don't die, right? Yeah, don't get stabbed 00:39:25.829 --> 00:39:29.349 in the neck and covered in oil, Josh. Yeah, that 00:39:29.349 --> 00:39:32.949 wasn't me. No, no. It's napalm. Have I got that 00:39:32.949 --> 00:39:34.429 right, Josh? It's napalm, isn't it? Like where 00:39:34.429 --> 00:39:37.230 they kind of put hot oil in. It happened in Belmarsh 00:39:37.230 --> 00:39:39.110 recently. They put hot oil in and they burned 00:39:39.110 --> 00:39:41.590 it and then came behind and just... melted somebody's 00:39:41.590 --> 00:39:44.650 face off like yeah but you know just an everyday 00:39:44.650 --> 00:39:49.550 work yeah cool yeah cool same time tomorrow well 00:39:49.550 --> 00:39:52.630 josh let's kind of walk you through because you 00:39:52.630 --> 00:39:54.869 we before we hit record you mentioned that you 00:39:54.869 --> 00:39:58.250 were a uh on -call firefighter so walk me through 00:39:58.250 --> 00:40:00.849 volunteering or being in that role excuse me 00:40:00.849 --> 00:40:04.090 as a firefighter and then how a call actually 00:40:04.090 --> 00:40:07.909 led you to doing the the corrections road so 00:40:07.909 --> 00:40:11.289 i When I was in college, I studied over here. 00:40:11.329 --> 00:40:13.449 We have, of course, uniformed public services. 00:40:13.489 --> 00:40:15.710 So it's all about this for people who want to 00:40:15.710 --> 00:40:18.489 join your police, fire, ambulance, military, 00:40:18.610 --> 00:40:23.389 stuff like that. And by chance, I never actually 00:40:23.389 --> 00:40:26.050 finished the course because the job advert for 00:40:26.050 --> 00:40:28.849 being an on -call firefighter came out. So I 00:40:28.849 --> 00:40:31.469 applied and I got it. I literally got it at the 00:40:31.469 --> 00:40:34.889 age of just coming towards the end of my 18th 00:40:34.889 --> 00:40:38.369 year. of being alive so I was literally just 00:40:38.369 --> 00:40:41.570 as as young as you could be to get in really 00:40:41.570 --> 00:40:45.550 um so I kind of thought to myself you know do 00:40:45.550 --> 00:40:47.429 I take this opportunity career of a lifetime 00:40:47.429 --> 00:40:51.730 or a doorway to a career of a lifetime or do 00:40:51.730 --> 00:40:53.670 I stick up my core so I abandoned college about 00:40:53.670 --> 00:40:56.170 abandoned college abandoned ship there joined 00:40:56.170 --> 00:40:59.469 the retained loved it brilliant brilliant job 00:40:59.469 --> 00:41:01.570 obviously being on call I worked in a I just 00:41:01.570 --> 00:41:03.409 did factory work alongside that they were really 00:41:03.409 --> 00:41:08.199 good they used to let me respond Fantastic job 00:41:08.199 --> 00:41:10.000 that I'd recommend to anyone. Absolutely brilliant. 00:41:10.579 --> 00:41:14.460 And then, so as part of the prison I work at, 00:41:14.500 --> 00:41:17.159 as part of their contingency, you'll get like 00:41:17.159 --> 00:41:19.679 a regular like risk visit from the local fire 00:41:19.679 --> 00:41:21.500 services, just so they can familiarize themselves 00:41:21.500 --> 00:41:23.280 with the site. So if there was a big incident, 00:41:23.340 --> 00:41:25.860 they know where they're going. It's not the first 00:41:25.860 --> 00:41:27.360 time they stepped foot through the gate sort 00:41:27.360 --> 00:41:30.360 of thing. And I came up, we had a tour and a 00:41:30.360 --> 00:41:33.260 walk around and they said, you know, we're hiring. 00:41:33.800 --> 00:41:37.690 And I thought, Probably give it a go. That was 00:41:37.690 --> 00:41:40.650 the extent of it. I never considered it as a 00:41:40.650 --> 00:41:43.210 career. And I think that's partly because you 00:41:43.210 --> 00:41:45.909 rarely see prisons or back then, particularly 00:41:45.909 --> 00:41:48.949 when I joined, you rarely see prisons in the 00:41:48.949 --> 00:41:52.050 media much, particularly as a as a job opportunity. 00:41:52.250 --> 00:41:54.750 There's normally something negative on the news 00:41:54.750 --> 00:41:58.269 about them. And yes, I applied, went through 00:41:58.269 --> 00:42:03.769 the process, got in and slowly clawed my way 00:42:03.769 --> 00:42:08.690 up through the role. But I really enjoy it. I 00:42:08.690 --> 00:42:13.949 love my job. I think it's brilliant. I know a 00:42:13.949 --> 00:42:15.809 lot of people say it in a lot of different roles, 00:42:15.909 --> 00:42:18.809 but no two days really are the same. No two conversations 00:42:18.809 --> 00:42:22.710 are the same. I'm talking to people who have 00:42:22.710 --> 00:42:25.530 experienced lives that I could not even fathom. 00:42:26.250 --> 00:42:28.989 And we've spoke about backgrounds and upbringing 00:42:28.989 --> 00:42:30.610 and things like that, the things that they've 00:42:30.610 --> 00:42:32.730 seen. the things that they've had to do at young 00:42:32.730 --> 00:42:34.650 ages, the things that they've been exposed to. 00:42:35.389 --> 00:42:38.170 And yeah, it's just, it's brilliant. I love it. 00:42:38.190 --> 00:42:42.210 And I think that's where like Al's tool and the 00:42:42.210 --> 00:42:43.909 things that he's developed are really, really 00:42:43.909 --> 00:42:47.030 kind of key and important for what we're trying 00:42:47.030 --> 00:42:48.969 to achieve because they give a different medium 00:42:48.969 --> 00:42:51.789 to talk. Like everyone, everyone knows we should 00:42:51.789 --> 00:42:53.949 talk. If you, if you know, if you say to someone, 00:42:53.989 --> 00:42:55.449 you know, you should open up and talk about that. 00:42:55.489 --> 00:42:59.739 They go, yeah, I know. But having. options for 00:42:59.739 --> 00:43:02.760 how they deliver that talk isn't really there 00:43:02.760 --> 00:43:04.679 in some cases. So I think with what we've got 00:43:04.679 --> 00:43:07.719 here, it's brilliant. It's a physical medium 00:43:07.719 --> 00:43:09.360 in front of them that they can just put together 00:43:09.360 --> 00:43:11.219 piece by piece and then have a whole conversation 00:43:11.219 --> 00:43:13.860 with it without actually having to say a right 00:43:13.860 --> 00:43:17.460 lot. I've probably gone off on a bit of a tangent 00:43:17.460 --> 00:43:19.199 from the question that you asked there, but I 00:43:19.199 --> 00:43:21.900 just started rolling with it. Yeah, no, that 00:43:21.900 --> 00:43:24.659 was great. That was great. When you first walked 00:43:24.659 --> 00:43:26.760 through the door, you've been doing the retained 00:43:26.760 --> 00:43:30.199 firefighter role. What was some of the myths 00:43:30.199 --> 00:43:32.500 that were debunked in your mind when you actually 00:43:32.500 --> 00:43:37.139 started working in the corrections side? So, 00:43:37.340 --> 00:43:41.099 I mean, from when I first started the job, the 00:43:41.099 --> 00:43:43.039 fact that everyone doesn't wear an orange jumpsuit 00:43:43.039 --> 00:43:46.179 is probably the big one because you see that 00:43:46.179 --> 00:43:48.000 in all the TV shows and the films and stuff like 00:43:48.000 --> 00:43:50.619 that. Obviously, we don't have that. We don't 00:43:50.619 --> 00:43:53.760 have that in our prisons. So it was that. It 00:43:53.760 --> 00:43:57.599 was kind of really the understanding of what 00:43:57.599 --> 00:44:02.090 a... prison officers required to do and when 00:44:02.090 --> 00:44:03.610 you start and you go through your training they 00:44:03.610 --> 00:44:05.429 talk about how you're you're going to have to 00:44:05.429 --> 00:44:10.349 be a firefighter you're going to have to be a 00:44:10.349 --> 00:44:12.909 mental health support worker you're going to 00:44:12.909 --> 00:44:15.469 have to be to some people that i work with i 00:44:15.469 --> 00:44:17.929 work with some fantastic people who literally 00:44:17.929 --> 00:44:22.849 are almost like parents to these people you know 00:44:22.849 --> 00:44:25.309 like i work with people who have got all this 00:44:25.309 --> 00:44:28.690 life experience and Sometimes they talk to some 00:44:28.690 --> 00:44:30.670 of them like they're their kids, but they respond 00:44:30.670 --> 00:44:33.250 to it really well because it's a sort of dynamic 00:44:33.250 --> 00:44:34.989 in a relationship they've never really had. And 00:44:34.989 --> 00:44:38.829 it's really, really nice to see. But you pick 00:44:38.829 --> 00:44:40.809 up, you wear so many different hats in a day 00:44:40.809 --> 00:44:45.409 just to get through the day. Just, I mean, like 00:44:45.409 --> 00:44:48.530 I'm dependent on the population of prison you 00:44:48.530 --> 00:44:51.389 work in. Ours is around 500. Like potentially 00:44:51.389 --> 00:44:53.469 I could have a conversation with all 500 of these 00:44:53.469 --> 00:44:56.309 people in a day. just by walking around and going 00:44:56.309 --> 00:44:59.389 about my business and doing my job, saying the 00:44:59.389 --> 00:45:01.269 hellos, saying the how are yous, checking in 00:45:01.269 --> 00:45:02.929 on them, catching up with them, how's it going 00:45:02.929 --> 00:45:11.650 with this, that. Compared to when you first started, 00:45:11.769 --> 00:45:17.010 have you seen an upswing or a downswing as far 00:45:17.010 --> 00:45:20.469 as the way things are going for your profession 00:45:20.469 --> 00:45:24.539 and or the recidivism side? And if it's a downstream, 00:45:24.780 --> 00:45:27.739 what are some of the frustrations as a career 00:45:27.739 --> 00:45:31.619 -wide field that you and your men and women are 00:45:31.619 --> 00:45:34.599 kind of struggling with at the moment? I think 00:45:34.599 --> 00:45:39.340 that it's hard not to see a sort of downward 00:45:39.340 --> 00:45:42.000 trajectory for recidivism, mainly because in 00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:43.059 the media at the moment where they're talking 00:45:43.059 --> 00:45:46.039 a lot about prison population and spaces, the 00:45:46.039 --> 00:45:51.170 prisons are vastly getting overcrowded now. obviously 00:45:51.170 --> 00:45:53.809 trying to do what we can as a service and the 00:45:53.809 --> 00:45:57.690 government are obviously trying to reduce that 00:45:57.690 --> 00:46:00.869 as best they can with whatever they come up with 00:46:00.869 --> 00:46:06.570 with their ideas but it's hard I think it's it's 00:46:06.570 --> 00:46:08.469 quite hard to kind of look at it and comment 00:46:08.469 --> 00:46:10.849 on that specifically because there's just so 00:46:10.849 --> 00:46:12.730 much that kind of factors into it and there's 00:46:12.730 --> 00:46:14.949 so many different I mean it's not it's not just 00:46:14.949 --> 00:46:17.010 a case of looking at prisons it's a case of looking 00:46:17.010 --> 00:46:18.989 at probation it's a case of looking at we've 00:46:18.989 --> 00:46:20.750 already spoke about education it's all this and 00:46:20.750 --> 00:46:23.710 all that it's like you're trying to stop a leaking 00:46:23.710 --> 00:46:27.630 bucket but there's so many different avenues 00:46:27.630 --> 00:46:30.139 it's leaking from And you don't have enough. 00:46:30.460 --> 00:46:32.659 I don't know if you'd agree with that, Al, but 00:46:32.659 --> 00:46:34.460 you know what I mean? It's not just a case of 00:46:34.460 --> 00:46:36.880 looking at like our prisons working. It's a case 00:46:36.880 --> 00:46:40.559 of looking at everything as a whole. Are we doing 00:46:40.559 --> 00:46:43.599 the best that we can to reduce the rates that 00:46:43.599 --> 00:46:45.239 people are coming to prison, to reduce the rates 00:46:45.239 --> 00:46:48.599 people are offended? What impact is that having 00:46:48.599 --> 00:46:51.139 on your men and women, though? Because, I mean, 00:46:51.219 --> 00:46:54.380 this is the same as over here. So our first responders 00:46:54.380 --> 00:46:56.039 are being run into the ground. Let's take the 00:46:56.039 --> 00:47:00.139 fire and EMS. We do all the medical calls. They're 00:47:00.139 --> 00:47:02.440 working more and more and more. And again, kind 00:47:02.440 --> 00:47:04.519 of alluding to what you said, I mean, there's 00:47:04.519 --> 00:47:06.659 a lot in the backstory. We have an environment 00:47:06.659 --> 00:47:08.760 where people are moving less and less. They're 00:47:08.760 --> 00:47:10.880 stuck to their phones. The food that we serve 00:47:10.880 --> 00:47:13.840 in schools is absolute dog shit. They're getting 00:47:13.840 --> 00:47:16.380 rid of PE. I mean, all these contributing factors 00:47:16.380 --> 00:47:18.480 that are making Americans fatter and fatter and 00:47:18.480 --> 00:47:21.789 sicker and sicker, which then. The first responders 00:47:21.789 --> 00:47:24.389 and then the hospitals are the ones who are drowning. 00:47:24.550 --> 00:47:27.269 And then, you know, a virus blows through the 00:47:27.269 --> 00:47:29.090 planet and then everyone stands up and claps 00:47:29.090 --> 00:47:31.789 at 5 p .m. because that's going to help everything. 00:47:32.309 --> 00:47:34.809 So, you know, what it's done is it's put it squarely 00:47:34.809 --> 00:47:36.650 on the shoulders of the people who are actually 00:47:36.650 --> 00:47:39.929 on the front line. So you have all these holes 00:47:39.929 --> 00:47:43.309 in this bucket, but you and your fellow men and 00:47:43.309 --> 00:47:45.050 women in the correction system are the ones that 00:47:45.050 --> 00:47:48.070 are having to. to you know to stem the flow when 00:47:48.070 --> 00:47:50.670 it comes to behind those walls so what impact 00:47:50.670 --> 00:47:53.090 is it having on the well -being of your profession 00:47:53.090 --> 00:47:57.690 obviously it's naturally it's going to be exhausting 00:47:57.690 --> 00:48:01.389 isn't it it's if like any service if any service 00:48:01.389 --> 00:48:05.010 is stretched thin the people inside who are trying 00:48:05.010 --> 00:48:06.670 to sort of deal with that are going to feel the 00:48:06.670 --> 00:48:09.630 effects of that and i think with particularly 00:48:09.630 --> 00:48:11.989 with like staff retention rates and the rates 00:48:11.989 --> 00:48:16.730 that people are leaving and we I think that's 00:48:16.730 --> 00:48:20.469 most likely from the effects of the service being 00:48:20.469 --> 00:48:23.329 overstretched. Too many prisoners, not enough 00:48:23.329 --> 00:48:27.170 prison officers, sadly. That's happening here. 00:48:27.329 --> 00:48:29.389 We have a massive recruitment crisis in fire, 00:48:29.530 --> 00:48:34.269 in EMS, in law enforcement, in dispatch, in corrections. 00:48:34.730 --> 00:48:37.340 And because you've asked... people that do more 00:48:37.340 --> 00:48:39.039 and more and more with less and less and less. 00:48:39.239 --> 00:48:42.320 And if you don't do the proactive things, like 00:48:42.320 --> 00:48:44.719 for example, go into the schools and put all 00:48:44.719 --> 00:48:47.159 those pieces back together again and provide 00:48:47.159 --> 00:48:49.300 more support in some of the areas that are struggling 00:48:49.300 --> 00:48:52.760 more and have compassion and empathy on the backstory 00:48:52.760 --> 00:48:54.820 of some of these families, rather than say, well, 00:48:54.940 --> 00:48:57.099 if these families weren't broken, then we wouldn't 00:48:57.099 --> 00:48:59.420 have bad kids. You know, these ridiculous things 00:48:59.420 --> 00:49:02.699 that you hear, then that's how you fix it. But 00:49:02.699 --> 00:49:04.599 we're drowning now. And then what happens is 00:49:04.599 --> 00:49:06.969 the men and women that left, they end up being 00:49:06.969 --> 00:49:09.989 forced to work even longer hours. And so now 00:49:09.989 --> 00:49:12.610 we're seeing this, you know, suicide crisis, 00:49:12.750 --> 00:49:14.389 you've got alcoholism, you've got addiction, 00:49:14.550 --> 00:49:16.030 you've got cancers, you've got heart disease, 00:49:16.110 --> 00:49:19.449 you've got all the things attributed to working 00:49:19.449 --> 00:49:23.889 a person into the ground. I think, I think the, 00:49:24.050 --> 00:49:29.289 yeah, yeah, I've got, I heard a solution. And 00:49:29.289 --> 00:49:31.909 it's a guy called Jack Corley. Did you come across 00:49:31.909 --> 00:49:33.929 Jack Corley? I don't recognize that name, no. 00:49:34.909 --> 00:49:37.050 I'm in shock horror, James. What is going on? 00:49:37.489 --> 00:49:41.690 So Jack Corley, he's a police sergeant in Colorado. 00:49:42.030 --> 00:49:46.130 And yeah, headline being, his thing is one by 00:49:46.130 --> 00:49:50.889 one policing. And I just put him in and he got 00:49:50.889 --> 00:49:54.329 the attention of Simon Sinek. And he impressed 00:49:54.329 --> 00:49:56.849 Simon Sinek so much that they've started something 00:49:56.849 --> 00:49:59.409 called The Curve, meaning Simon Sinek's like, 00:49:59.530 --> 00:50:01.630 I'm going to get involved in policing and I'm 00:50:01.630 --> 00:50:04.110 going to make a difference to policing as an 00:50:04.110 --> 00:50:07.090 independent, you know, and if you haven't, you've 00:50:07.090 --> 00:50:08.829 been under a rock if you haven't read Start With 00:50:08.829 --> 00:50:10.190 Why, isn't it? You know, I've seen that, seen 00:50:10.190 --> 00:50:12.969 his why thing. But there's something in this 00:50:12.969 --> 00:50:14.389 and something that he said that kind of rings 00:50:14.389 --> 00:50:18.690 a bell. Meaning you go in the bookshops and you 00:50:18.690 --> 00:50:20.789 see a lot of self -help. You see nothing about 00:50:20.789 --> 00:50:26.210 helping others. And I think the ego from a politician 00:50:26.210 --> 00:50:28.610 point of view in we're in for a term, we're going 00:50:28.610 --> 00:50:31.469 to make a difference to public services. But 00:50:31.469 --> 00:50:34.429 it's ego driven in the fact that we are going 00:50:34.429 --> 00:50:36.769 to do it for and we're going to show we're the 00:50:36.769 --> 00:50:38.909 best because we're in competition rather than 00:50:38.909 --> 00:50:41.329 cooperation. You know, so then when it changes, 00:50:41.369 --> 00:50:44.130 Republic to Democrat, you know, or in the UK 00:50:44.130 --> 00:50:47.260 when it changes. then it's a short -term difference 00:50:47.260 --> 00:50:49.679 and it's ego -based. It's kind of based from 00:50:49.679 --> 00:50:51.119 that, meaning the people on the bottom suffer. 00:50:51.559 --> 00:50:54.860 Whereas if it's truly selfless, if you're truly 00:50:54.860 --> 00:50:57.300 trying to change something, like are you from 00:50:57.300 --> 00:51:00.980 the middle or kind of you really care? And Jack 00:51:00.980 --> 00:51:02.940 Corley, it's worth checking out. Anyone who hasn't 00:51:02.940 --> 00:51:05.119 seen it, and again, a huge shout out to him. 00:51:06.280 --> 00:51:08.300 And I was meant to do, it's interesting, I was 00:51:08.300 --> 00:51:10.699 meant to do the Lego thing with him. I had a 00:51:10.699 --> 00:51:12.679 call with him, I was hugely impressed. Just the 00:51:12.679 --> 00:51:15.079 selflessness. And I think people at the bottom 00:51:15.079 --> 00:51:18.289 are selfless. Josh yourself, yourself, we paid 00:51:18.289 --> 00:51:21.309 for this. Yeah, it's cool. Let's be really honest. 00:51:21.389 --> 00:51:22.469 There's going to be some good stuff that comes 00:51:22.469 --> 00:51:24.329 from this. Yeah, great. It might help, whatever, 00:51:24.429 --> 00:51:28.389 X, Y, Z. That's what we stand for. We created 00:51:28.389 --> 00:51:31.289 this tool. It came off the back of a previous 00:51:31.289 --> 00:51:33.530 company where it was a coaching thing. I'd used 00:51:33.530 --> 00:51:34.949 Lego in the coaching. Lots of people are doing 00:51:34.949 --> 00:51:38.110 that now. It's great in some ways. It was meant 00:51:38.110 --> 00:51:40.570 to get to Colorado and was stuck. This sounds 00:51:40.570 --> 00:51:43.380 awful. This sounds great, but it was awful, right? 00:51:44.019 --> 00:51:48.139 Grounded in Barbados, right? Okay. Great. No, 00:51:48.260 --> 00:51:51.059 not great, man. COVID, like I got tagged and 00:51:51.059 --> 00:51:53.579 locked in a room and had to watch the beach while 00:51:53.579 --> 00:51:55.519 everyone else was on it. And then, because I 00:51:55.519 --> 00:51:57.340 wanted to punch into the States and you couldn't 00:51:57.340 --> 00:51:59.139 get into the States. So like we had this whole 00:51:59.139 --> 00:52:02.039 American tour planned and I was stuck there and 00:52:02.039 --> 00:52:05.980 I finally got cleared and a hurricane grounded 00:52:05.980 --> 00:52:08.119 it and I couldn't, and I missed it. Missed the 00:52:08.119 --> 00:52:10.739 date. I felt like it was awful. People were taking 00:52:10.739 --> 00:52:13.380 time off and missed it. And the whole of that 00:52:13.380 --> 00:52:15.360 tour went so wrong. It was just, but whatever. 00:52:15.559 --> 00:52:19.679 But I think the selflessness of like, if we all 00:52:19.679 --> 00:52:23.099 start being a bit more selfless, you know, and 00:52:23.099 --> 00:52:25.619 just kind of stop thinking about us, not, you 00:52:25.619 --> 00:52:28.059 know, as such people at the bottom, people at 00:52:28.059 --> 00:52:32.909 the top and just the hope I have. And there's 00:52:32.909 --> 00:52:35.469 people like Neil Thomas, who's the ex -governor 00:52:35.469 --> 00:52:37.150 of Loudoun, and he's now working in the cabinet 00:52:37.150 --> 00:52:41.130 office. And we're kind of in contact and some 00:52:41.130 --> 00:52:45.369 exciting things happen in there. But it's beginning 00:52:45.369 --> 00:52:47.849 to change. And I think it's beginning to change 00:52:47.849 --> 00:52:50.570 because you can't get away with that Shakespearean 00:52:50.570 --> 00:52:54.869 white male squashing people down anymore because 00:52:54.869 --> 00:52:58.070 there's people like you, James, the really annoying 00:52:58.070 --> 00:53:02.639 rebel. has got a bit of a voice that can't be 00:53:02.639 --> 00:53:05.099 ignored anymore, you know, and kind of like, 00:53:05.139 --> 00:53:07.039 and actually we never had that before in history. 00:53:07.139 --> 00:53:09.320 You know, we had, we had, we could write, you 00:53:09.320 --> 00:53:10.679 know, we could, but whatever. But even that, 00:53:10.699 --> 00:53:13.059 you know, it's like we kept, you know, poor kids 00:53:13.059 --> 00:53:14.940 from learning that because you had to pay to 00:53:14.940 --> 00:53:16.500 go to school, you know, a hundred years ago. 00:53:16.820 --> 00:53:20.420 But now, like, we're just blasting it open. But 00:53:20.420 --> 00:53:22.360 I think that kind of old school negativity is 00:53:22.360 --> 00:53:24.119 taking over so much, which is why, you know, 00:53:24.119 --> 00:53:26.079 again, like I'm so impressed that Josh is here 00:53:26.079 --> 00:53:28.170 and, you know, just saying the positive. But 00:53:28.170 --> 00:53:30.690 I think selflessness, people who want to change 00:53:30.690 --> 00:53:35.210 stuff and preventative stuff, which is massively 00:53:35.210 --> 00:53:37.510 what I stand for. If I'm going to introduce at 00:53:37.510 --> 00:53:39.110 a conference something, I say preventative psychologist. 00:53:39.670 --> 00:53:42.050 And not even a proper psychologist. There's a 00:53:42.050 --> 00:53:43.670 clinical psychologist who are way cleverer than 00:53:43.670 --> 00:53:46.389 I am. But I'm having it. I'm having that title 00:53:46.389 --> 00:53:50.449 because I think if we can prevent, let's start 00:53:50.449 --> 00:53:52.920 putting some energy into that. Because, you know, 00:53:52.960 --> 00:53:54.619 that plant, you know, we know in abstract, you 00:53:54.619 --> 00:53:56.320 know, plant trees that, you know, your kids, 00:53:56.380 --> 00:53:57.679 you know, you'll never see and your kids will 00:53:57.679 --> 00:54:00.420 see. So why aren't we doing it? And I think we're 00:54:00.420 --> 00:54:02.239 not doing it because we're getting more and more 00:54:02.239 --> 00:54:04.599 in the symptom society of we want our short hit. 00:54:04.699 --> 00:54:07.440 We want a 20 second soundbite. We want to, you 00:54:07.440 --> 00:54:09.840 know, we want we're not prepared to sit and listen 00:54:09.840 --> 00:54:11.619 to the hard stuff in a way that I think first 00:54:11.619 --> 00:54:14.000 responders, military, like they are they are 00:54:14.000 --> 00:54:17.480 kind of ethically groomed to take the hard road. 00:54:18.110 --> 00:54:20.190 you know like and it's and it's it's the long 00:54:20.190 --> 00:54:22.050 -term benefits isn't it it's you know the short 00:54:22.050 --> 00:54:24.289 term that eating the donut feels good you know 00:54:24.289 --> 00:54:25.929 in the moment going to the gym feels shit you 00:54:25.929 --> 00:54:28.469 know but you'll get the payoff later on so i'd 00:54:28.469 --> 00:54:33.389 say if we can be selfless and preventative i 00:54:33.389 --> 00:54:35.010 think we're onto a winner here you know and i 00:54:35.010 --> 00:54:36.789 think that's that's maybe and you know and it's 00:54:36.789 --> 00:54:38.750 that's the call to arms you know josh i know 00:54:38.750 --> 00:54:40.250 you feel the same james i know you feel the same 00:54:40.250 --> 00:54:41.710 i know there's millions of people that feel the 00:54:41.710 --> 00:54:46.590 same um and and just hold on to that hope You 00:54:46.590 --> 00:54:48.849 know, like hope plus that, I think we've kind 00:54:48.849 --> 00:54:50.650 of got a chance. And yeah, so yeah, the curve 00:54:50.650 --> 00:54:52.949 and some, any police who are listening and stuff, 00:54:52.969 --> 00:54:55.949 well worth checking out because it's a slow, 00:54:55.969 --> 00:55:02.030 small movement. And I mean, I know Jack Corley's 00:55:02.030 --> 00:55:03.989 not going anywhere and he's really passionate 00:55:03.989 --> 00:55:06.690 about it. But to have Simon Sinek behind you 00:55:06.690 --> 00:55:08.989 and, you know, it's only, I think there's only 00:55:08.989 --> 00:55:11.090 4 ,000 people following it. You know, it's not. 00:55:11.469 --> 00:55:14.210 it's not huge you know but that that you can 00:55:14.210 --> 00:55:16.670 feel the goodness in it you can feel the selfless 00:55:16.670 --> 00:55:18.409 in it and just one by one this thing is like 00:55:18.409 --> 00:55:21.969 one by one there's no money to be made this isn't 00:55:21.969 --> 00:55:24.389 yeah it's just it's just incredible and james 00:55:24.389 --> 00:55:26.469 i think you know you you do the same thing you 00:55:26.469 --> 00:55:28.469 know like it's a very selfless thing this podcast 00:55:28.469 --> 00:55:30.730 some cool stuff's come from it like john travolta 00:55:30.730 --> 00:55:31.929 we're talking about that in a bit as well that's 00:55:31.929 --> 00:55:35.929 well good right um but um but you're doing it 00:55:35.929 --> 00:55:39.960 you started selflessly And it's just not a thing 00:55:39.960 --> 00:55:42.179 anymore. It's about me and it's about me now 00:55:42.179 --> 00:55:44.099 and how I look and what's going on and what's 00:55:44.099 --> 00:55:45.900 the quickest way I can get the most attractive 00:55:45.900 --> 00:55:48.340 person in my life and the most amount of money 00:55:48.340 --> 00:55:50.519 I can make. And I'm like, we're just getting 00:55:50.519 --> 00:55:54.039 this all wrong. But yeah, selflessness is preventative. 00:55:54.719 --> 00:55:56.820 That's a segue, Josh. I'm going to shut up now. 00:55:58.280 --> 00:56:01.860 You want to add anything, Josh? No, no, no. Hit 00:56:01.860 --> 00:56:04.079 on the head off. All right. Well, yeah, it's 00:56:04.079 --> 00:56:06.699 funny because there's two things that are really... 00:56:07.039 --> 00:56:10.079 really risen to the top firstly i've said about 00:56:10.079 --> 00:56:12.619 this a few times if you look at the evolution 00:56:12.619 --> 00:56:17.219 of man and mankind we tend to go oh yeah we had 00:56:17.219 --> 00:56:20.300 the wheel then the factory and then computers 00:56:20.300 --> 00:56:23.480 and then ai and i was like bullshit that's not 00:56:23.480 --> 00:56:26.599 the evolution of man those are tools the evolution 00:56:26.599 --> 00:56:28.739 of man if you look through history is kindness 00:56:28.739 --> 00:56:31.599 compassion and empathy and if you look actually 00:56:31.599 --> 00:56:33.760 at the holy books a lot of people say that they 00:56:34.190 --> 00:56:36.309 adhere to and then walk out the front door and 00:56:36.309 --> 00:56:38.650 act like a fucking asshole they actually are 00:56:38.650 --> 00:56:41.510 about kindness compassion and community so the 00:56:41.510 --> 00:56:44.130 ancient wisdom is there telling us don't be a 00:56:44.130 --> 00:56:46.590 dick it's written down in numerous languages 00:56:46.590 --> 00:56:51.449 so and i think the enemy of that and i'd be i'm 00:56:51.449 --> 00:56:53.409 gonna lie i think there is a kindness revolution 00:56:53.409 --> 00:56:56.929 coming i do i absolutely do but the way that 00:56:56.929 --> 00:57:00.070 we get there is you also have to look and understand 00:57:00.070 --> 00:57:03.469 that These people that have opposed it, these 00:57:03.469 --> 00:57:05.610 people that are divided nations, these people 00:57:05.610 --> 00:57:08.690 that have caused wars, there's a mental health 00:57:08.690 --> 00:57:11.690 issue there. The only way that that giggling 00:57:11.690 --> 00:57:15.789 little toddler can stand by, you know, and turn 00:57:15.789 --> 00:57:18.230 their head or even arm a nation slaughtering 00:57:18.230 --> 00:57:21.750 20 ,000 children or, you know, insert any example 00:57:21.750 --> 00:57:23.969 here, but that's a local current one at the moment. 00:57:24.809 --> 00:57:27.889 or is behind a drug that causes an opioid crisis, 00:57:27.969 --> 00:57:32.449 or is behind a company of tobacco that causes 00:57:32.449 --> 00:57:34.329 millions of people around the world to die of 00:57:34.329 --> 00:57:37.150 cancer and they sleep at night, there's a mental 00:57:37.150 --> 00:57:39.829 health problem there. So we have to understand 00:57:39.829 --> 00:57:42.010 that the people who are power hungry, the people 00:57:42.010 --> 00:57:45.789 that are satisfied by greed alone, are sick individuals 00:57:45.789 --> 00:57:48.530 and they should not be at the helm of a government. 00:57:48.989 --> 00:57:51.849 of a company etc etc and they are the enemies 00:57:51.849 --> 00:57:54.989 of this revolution of kindness compassion empathy 00:57:54.989 --> 00:57:59.090 that buddha and jesus and all these other prophets 00:57:59.090 --> 00:58:02.730 talk about so if we are actually going to move 00:58:02.730 --> 00:58:04.590 forward and we're going to make changes and be 00:58:04.590 --> 00:58:06.570 proactive and advocate for the mental health 00:58:06.570 --> 00:58:08.829 and the physical health of not only our adults 00:58:08.829 --> 00:58:11.690 but more importantly our children then we have 00:58:11.690 --> 00:58:15.289 to understand a that we are inherently good as 00:58:15.289 --> 00:58:18.730 human beings and b that there are some broken 00:58:18.730 --> 00:58:20.650 people out there that need to be removed from 00:58:20.650 --> 00:58:22.849 positions. Hopefully they'll go on their healing 00:58:22.849 --> 00:58:25.210 journey and they'll use their incredible leadership 00:58:25.210 --> 00:58:28.110 or business skills to do good in the world. But 00:58:28.110 --> 00:58:33.070 if we allow those broken people that have no 00:58:33.070 --> 00:58:37.610 empathy whatsoever and do not lose a moment of 00:58:37.610 --> 00:58:41.409 sleep whilst their arms are overseas, slaughtering 00:58:41.409 --> 00:58:44.300 children, for example. That is the thing that 00:58:44.300 --> 00:58:46.400 we've got to have. It's not a left problem. It's 00:58:46.400 --> 00:58:49.039 not a right problem. It's a human problem. And 00:58:49.039 --> 00:58:51.579 I think whether it's, you know, the governor 00:58:51.579 --> 00:58:54.579 of a prison who's lost multiple people to suicide 00:58:54.579 --> 00:58:57.300 and refuses to change anything, or locally here, 00:58:57.360 --> 00:58:59.380 a fire department, which is exactly what's happened, 00:58:59.460 --> 00:59:02.739 and they sleep at night, same exact problem. 00:59:02.900 --> 00:59:05.920 So I think collectively as a human race, we've 00:59:05.920 --> 00:59:08.400 got to lean back into all the holy scripts, the 00:59:08.400 --> 00:59:10.239 stoicism, all the things that are teaching us 00:59:10.239 --> 00:59:13.329 about kindness and compassion. and kind of reset 00:59:13.329 --> 00:59:16.570 and then come together like realize that you 00:59:16.570 --> 00:59:20.010 are being divided like if you went to each side 00:59:20.010 --> 00:59:23.849 of a world war one trench over a vaccine that 00:59:23.849 --> 00:59:25.889 tells you how we talked about being conditioned 00:59:25.889 --> 00:59:28.670 at school that tells you how divided you already 00:59:28.670 --> 00:59:31.230 were that someone literally said if you wear 00:59:31.230 --> 00:59:33.369 a mask go over there if you don't wear a mask 00:59:33.369 --> 00:59:36.369 over there like i mean that to me speaks volumes 00:59:36.369 --> 00:59:40.539 so circling around to what you said I could not 00:59:40.539 --> 00:59:42.820 agree more. I think there really is a kindness 00:59:42.820 --> 00:59:45.519 and compassion revolution. But tying into this 00:59:45.519 --> 00:59:48.219 mental health conversation, we've got to understand 00:59:48.219 --> 00:59:51.880 that if people sleep at night doing the horrible, 00:59:51.980 --> 00:59:55.440 horrible deeds that they do, then that is a very 00:59:55.440 --> 00:59:57.519 dangerous person to be in a position of power. 00:59:57.579 --> 00:59:59.920 And we need to rethink who we put there in the 00:59:59.920 --> 01:00:08.079 first place. Could not agree more. All right. 01:00:08.119 --> 01:00:11.570 Well. Stay on you, Al. Let's get to your road 01:00:11.570 --> 01:00:13.670 when it comes to psychology, and then we'll kind 01:00:13.670 --> 01:00:15.449 of weave our way through to what you're doing 01:00:15.449 --> 01:00:17.650 now today with Lego, because I'm sure people 01:00:17.650 --> 01:00:19.909 are fascinated to hear that side. But how did 01:00:19.909 --> 01:00:21.869 you even get into the world of psychology? And 01:00:21.869 --> 01:00:23.909 then how did that lead you into the world of 01:00:23.909 --> 01:00:29.429 law enforcement as well? Yeah. Yeah, I think. 01:00:30.849 --> 01:00:33.130 Just not just not didn't think I was clever. 01:00:33.289 --> 01:00:35.849 I'm like, I'm not doing this academic craziness. 01:00:37.230 --> 01:00:40.659 But but that. I think, Dean, when you found out 01:00:40.659 --> 01:00:43.760 there was a science and not an airy -fairy thing 01:00:43.760 --> 01:00:47.420 and not a wishy -washy thing, a real hard science 01:00:47.420 --> 01:00:49.539 to what you just said, the kindness revolution, 01:00:49.780 --> 01:00:51.719 what's going on, I was like, this is a bit of 01:00:51.719 --> 01:00:55.340 me. I will get involved here. And so I did my 01:00:55.340 --> 01:00:58.940 master's. I was just messing around. I got serious 01:00:58.940 --> 01:01:02.179 with teaching, but before that, I got an undergraduate, 01:01:02.440 --> 01:01:05.800 but I was just like, yeah, whatever, and realized 01:01:05.800 --> 01:01:07.539 you could study this and kind of went to the 01:01:07.539 --> 01:01:10.320 interview. They're like, well, yeah, OK, I'll 01:01:10.320 --> 01:01:12.920 teach you something, we'll take you. And was 01:01:12.920 --> 01:01:16.239 blown away by things like post -traumatic growth 01:01:16.239 --> 01:01:20.119 and the real hard science. And I loved the idea 01:01:20.119 --> 01:01:22.300 that like, you know, and I was rubbish. I couldn't 01:01:22.300 --> 01:01:24.800 write an academic paragraph. I was like, oh, 01:01:24.960 --> 01:01:28.679 so got a humbling and a bit of a beating. But 01:01:28.679 --> 01:01:31.320 started to listen and pay attention was just 01:01:31.320 --> 01:01:34.539 like, I love the defence. It comes back to this 01:01:34.539 --> 01:01:36.840 thing about the light and the dark. I was like, 01:01:36.900 --> 01:01:40.280 if you can't defend your position, if you want 01:01:40.280 --> 01:01:44.340 to go into maximum security, category A, HMP 01:01:44.340 --> 01:01:46.880 Belmarsh and play Lego, you better be able to 01:01:46.880 --> 01:01:49.559 scientifically defend what you're doing. And 01:01:49.559 --> 01:01:54.539 I was like, I can get behind that. It's not for 01:01:54.539 --> 01:01:57.519 me, whatever. And the more the course itself, 01:01:57.719 --> 01:02:00.340 if you just pump positive psychology as a scientific 01:02:00.340 --> 01:02:04.670 field. it's, it's rigorous, it's rigorous and 01:02:04.670 --> 01:02:07.269 it's hardcore and it's numerical and it's quantitative. 01:02:07.489 --> 01:02:09.789 And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. So now, and 01:02:09.789 --> 01:02:11.409 maybe, you know, deep down subconsciously, I 01:02:11.409 --> 01:02:13.789 was like, I can defend me, you know, that optimism. 01:02:13.809 --> 01:02:15.449 I've always been like kind of quite positive, 01:02:15.469 --> 01:02:18.110 um, you know, but always being creative and stuff. 01:02:18.150 --> 01:02:20.110 And those two things don't go with, you know, 01:02:20.110 --> 01:02:22.110 the, the kind of male culture that I was brought 01:02:22.110 --> 01:02:25.090 up in. Um, and it helped getting huge, you know, 01:02:25.090 --> 01:02:26.429 people were like, all right. And then, you know, 01:02:26.429 --> 01:02:29.809 get the beard. Okay, cool. Uh, but yeah, so finishing 01:02:29.809 --> 01:02:34.739 MSC, um, And I was like, there has to be a way 01:02:34.739 --> 01:02:37.559 of putting this science into real life. Because 01:02:37.559 --> 01:02:39.280 I was, you know, there were mental health programs 01:02:39.280 --> 01:02:40.679 that were happening. And there's a lot, I mean, 01:02:40.719 --> 01:02:43.599 don't go under quality for police, right? There's 01:02:43.599 --> 01:02:46.239 a lot of shit, like a lot of shit, you know, 01:02:46.280 --> 01:02:49.119 like, and I'm going to charge you 3000 to do, 01:02:49.139 --> 01:02:51.199 you know, a bit of cleansing. You're like, no, 01:02:51.199 --> 01:02:55.199 no, no, no. And so, yeah, you know, I kind of, 01:02:55.239 --> 01:02:56.840 I've talked about this before and stuff, but, 01:02:56.840 --> 01:03:00.710 you know, I kind of, I became a workaholic. I 01:03:00.710 --> 01:03:02.909 mean, I probably became an alcoholic actually 01:03:02.909 --> 01:03:05.670 and a workaholic and kind of go hand in hand 01:03:05.670 --> 01:03:08.510 and tried to take it into teaching and just wasn't 01:03:08.510 --> 01:03:10.969 working. I was like, this is really important. 01:03:11.289 --> 01:03:14.070 Like, this is huge. But was a little bit confused 01:03:14.070 --> 01:03:15.929 and was, you know, all over the place and was 01:03:15.929 --> 01:03:19.250 chasing women and farted about and like, yeah. 01:03:19.949 --> 01:03:22.829 And then I had my own reckoning, which, you know. 01:03:23.920 --> 01:03:26.039 yeah where kind of I just kind of lost my own 01:03:26.039 --> 01:03:28.559 perspective I lost myself a little bit um and 01:03:28.559 --> 01:03:30.900 that gave me a slap I got a hard slap for that 01:03:30.900 --> 01:03:33.360 from the education world professionally and personally 01:03:33.360 --> 01:03:36.800 um and that made me kind of go okay cool um went 01:03:36.800 --> 01:03:40.539 to Australia um yeah and kind of kind of came 01:03:40.539 --> 01:03:41.719 to the point where I was like I think I want 01:03:41.719 --> 01:03:43.139 to kill myself I think I'm done here like this 01:03:43.139 --> 01:03:47.420 is this is ridiculous um and you know which happens 01:03:47.420 --> 01:03:49.000 to a lot of people I think it's important you 01:03:49.000 --> 01:03:50.739 know to kind of normalize that a little bit it's 01:03:50.739 --> 01:03:53.219 very sad we need to normalize it but like And, 01:03:53.239 --> 01:03:56.480 you know, there's hope afterwards. Came back 01:03:56.480 --> 01:03:59.699 to the UK and then started a business. And, yeah, 01:04:00.539 --> 01:04:03.159 kind of a massive kind of shout out to, you know, 01:04:03.179 --> 01:04:07.159 my kind of ex -partner at the time. She was German. 01:04:07.260 --> 01:04:09.059 It's her birthday tomorrow, actually. She's German 01:04:09.059 --> 01:04:14.059 and helped me see that actually I could bring 01:04:14.059 --> 01:04:17.219 the kind of the teacher out. with full of bants 01:04:17.219 --> 01:04:20.579 and super cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah, wicked. With 01:04:20.579 --> 01:04:22.739 the academics and put it together and maybe make 01:04:22.739 --> 01:04:27.260 a company. Maybe I could do this. And she was 01:04:27.260 --> 01:04:29.199 like, yeah, yeah. And that same mentor, she was 01:04:29.199 --> 01:04:32.099 my mentor. She became my mentor and showed me 01:04:32.099 --> 01:04:35.039 and helped me. And we built this company called 01:04:35.039 --> 01:04:37.940 Inorama. Or I built it and she supported it, 01:04:37.980 --> 01:04:41.840 which is great. And it was just kind of centered 01:04:41.840 --> 01:04:44.989 around this very, very quick. powerful coaching 01:04:44.989 --> 01:04:47.150 model that ended up being so powerful that like 01:04:47.150 --> 01:04:50.349 it caused problems um because again i was a bit 01:04:50.349 --> 01:04:52.750 annoyed that coaching was yeah do you want to 01:04:52.750 --> 01:04:55.010 coach nobody wants to coach man nobody like and 01:04:55.010 --> 01:04:57.329 you know there's great coaches there's great 01:04:57.329 --> 01:04:59.630 and you know if you get real coaching you're 01:04:59.630 --> 01:05:02.389 like wow it's life -changing but again market's 01:05:02.389 --> 01:05:03.909 been saturated there's a lot of crap coaches 01:05:03.909 --> 01:05:05.469 you don't need a qualification necessarily blah 01:05:05.469 --> 01:05:08.090 blah blah so it works so this 28 question thing 01:05:08.090 --> 01:05:12.500 worked um And off we went, you know, and kind 01:05:12.500 --> 01:05:14.800 of started doing teachers and kind of working 01:05:14.800 --> 01:05:16.559 with schools. And it was working. And I was like, 01:05:16.579 --> 01:05:18.380 this is really good. This is really making a 01:05:18.380 --> 01:05:21.019 lot of sense here. Started gathering momentum. 01:05:21.260 --> 01:05:24.119 And then police. So I moved into police. I was 01:05:24.119 --> 01:05:26.579 in Hackney. And a police officer there, which 01:05:26.579 --> 01:05:28.159 is a rough kind of area of London for kind of 01:05:28.159 --> 01:05:32.059 US people. And yeah, and he came in and said, 01:05:32.119 --> 01:05:33.599 like, police could do with this. And I remember 01:05:33.599 --> 01:05:35.360 kind of thinking, like, have you not got individual 01:05:35.360 --> 01:05:39.039 psychologists? Like, what? What? Which was my 01:05:39.039 --> 01:05:42.920 first foray. Look at you smiling. First foray 01:05:42.920 --> 01:05:45.559 into the idea that all emergency responses are 01:05:45.559 --> 01:05:49.360 just asked to suck it up. I'm sorry, what? And 01:05:49.360 --> 01:05:52.260 that was it. It just lit an absolute fire. So 01:05:52.260 --> 01:05:53.880 now I've kind of got this little bit of academia 01:05:53.880 --> 01:05:56.420 and started kind of upping my academic game. 01:05:57.059 --> 01:06:00.760 But it had to work. I think that's the theme. 01:06:01.360 --> 01:06:04.139 I'm really pumped for Josh to kind of talk about 01:06:04.139 --> 01:06:06.309 his... his experience this week, because it's 01:06:06.309 --> 01:06:09.670 not me. It just works. You know, it's this tool 01:06:09.670 --> 01:06:12.530 that works, take it and run with it and use it. 01:06:12.829 --> 01:06:15.090 But to get to that, you've got to know your homework. 01:06:15.349 --> 01:06:17.010 Like you've got to do the work. Like it's not, 01:06:17.010 --> 01:06:18.349 it's, you know, and if I'm going to do something, 01:06:18.409 --> 01:06:20.150 I'll do it. You know, like I'm getting involved 01:06:20.150 --> 01:06:22.869 in prison. I'm doing some prison stuff, which 01:06:22.869 --> 01:06:26.449 snapped me in two this week. Did it not, Josh? 01:06:26.929 --> 01:06:29.789 You know, like, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm a weeb. 01:06:29.789 --> 01:06:32.719 I like, I'm just like, wow. But I want to feel 01:06:32.719 --> 01:06:34.599 it. I want to feel it. Show me the blood. Like, 01:06:34.599 --> 01:06:35.679 I'm going to feel it. Like, if we're going to 01:06:35.679 --> 01:06:37.420 do this. And academically, like, if I want to 01:06:37.420 --> 01:06:38.860 talk about something, I want to know about it. 01:06:39.360 --> 01:06:42.380 And I want to be wrong. You know, like, great. 01:06:42.440 --> 01:06:44.420 I kind of learned everything I can. And then 01:06:44.420 --> 01:06:46.559 tell me that I'm wrong and tell me the new stuff. 01:06:46.739 --> 01:06:49.920 Like, you know, let's go forward. So, yeah, it 01:06:49.920 --> 01:06:52.199 started saving lives. And I was like, okay, we've 01:06:52.199 --> 01:06:55.159 got something here. But this is wicked. But too 01:06:55.159 --> 01:06:59.659 fast. Too much work. Too fast. Again, too much 01:06:59.659 --> 01:07:03.079 alcohol, really. which is very difficult when 01:07:03.079 --> 01:07:06.300 you're on tour, you know? So got a handle on 01:07:06.300 --> 01:07:07.679 that. And, you know, lack of fitness, you were 01:07:07.679 --> 01:07:09.179 saying earlier, like I was just like, I was getting, 01:07:09.340 --> 01:07:11.260 and there was losing perspective, I was missing 01:07:11.260 --> 01:07:15.500 conversations, you know? And yeah, catastrophic 01:07:15.500 --> 01:07:19.340 failure. No, beautiful failure. Yeah, it was 01:07:19.340 --> 01:07:22.400 awful. And it felt like losing a child, best 01:07:22.400 --> 01:07:25.099 thing ever, because out of that came stealth. 01:07:25.659 --> 01:07:27.800 And that was like, right. And we went back and 01:07:27.800 --> 01:07:30.889 said, what if it isn't? intervention what happens 01:07:30.889 --> 01:07:32.730 if and my investor said it and you know huge 01:07:32.730 --> 01:07:37.889 credit to him and um yeah he was just like what 01:07:37.889 --> 01:07:41.130 this is too strong the psychology world if you're 01:07:41.130 --> 01:07:42.789 trying to put a psychological intervention into 01:07:42.789 --> 01:07:44.630 the emergency services i mean like i can't even 01:07:44.630 --> 01:07:46.269 say it without laughing by the end of it you 01:07:46.269 --> 01:07:47.809 know it's just not gonna happen like there's 01:07:47.809 --> 01:07:51.210 so much red tape um and they're so cautious which 01:07:51.210 --> 01:07:53.329 is really ironic isn't it we're happy to destroy 01:07:53.329 --> 01:07:56.480 our people as a system but we're not willing 01:07:56.480 --> 01:07:58.360 to kind of look at something new and credit to 01:07:58.360 --> 01:08:00.880 the states because yeah we were pushing it with 01:08:00.880 --> 01:08:05.860 british transport police the met um ham shit 01:08:05.860 --> 01:08:08.420 like so many and just kept getting the same thing 01:08:08.420 --> 01:08:10.840 and just and people were yeah it works it's great 01:08:10.840 --> 01:08:12.480 we're not paying you i'm like well you can get 01:08:12.480 --> 01:08:14.519 bent then do you mean like i'm not having it 01:08:14.519 --> 01:08:16.840 like i've done the work for free like i've borrowed 01:08:16.840 --> 01:08:19.279 money to work like that's how much i believe 01:08:19.279 --> 01:08:22.140 in this and you're not gonna like no not having 01:08:22.140 --> 01:08:25.270 it And it was kind of right at the kind of senior 01:08:25.270 --> 01:08:26.949 levels of the Met. And they said, go to the States. 01:08:27.310 --> 01:08:29.250 And they particularly said, go to the Southern 01:08:29.250 --> 01:08:32.189 States. And took aim at North Carolina, landed 01:08:32.189 --> 01:08:34.989 in North Carolina, and it just went off. They 01:08:34.989 --> 01:08:38.310 were like, we love this. Let's go. And, you know, 01:08:38.329 --> 01:08:40.149 put it together and it worked. And, you know, 01:08:40.170 --> 01:08:41.850 it's a shame that it kind of fell apart. But 01:08:41.850 --> 01:08:45.810 power and greed, I think, is probably the kind 01:08:45.810 --> 01:08:47.970 of root of that money. There's a lot, you know, 01:08:47.989 --> 01:08:50.430 we talked earlier about that. And then out of 01:08:50.430 --> 01:08:53.100 that came stealth. And we went back to the drawing 01:08:53.100 --> 01:08:56.600 board and my co -founder, Mark, who's a Royal 01:08:56.600 --> 01:08:59.859 Marine SNCO. And he was just like, maybe this 01:08:59.859 --> 01:09:02.859 is about listening. Like maybe this is actually, 01:09:03.000 --> 01:09:05.460 maybe this isn't an intervention. Maybe this 01:09:05.460 --> 01:09:08.239 is a de -escalation thing. What can you use? 01:09:08.279 --> 01:09:10.380 How could you listen to somebody's subconscious? 01:09:11.199 --> 01:09:13.260 Because this legacy was played and I'm pumped 01:09:13.260 --> 01:09:14.979 to hear Josh. I don't know quite what you're 01:09:14.979 --> 01:09:16.659 going to say. Please be gentle. All right. Okay. 01:09:19.440 --> 01:09:22.619 We're in people's subconsciouses with this. Now, 01:09:22.680 --> 01:09:25.920 there's no amount of papers you can read in the 01:09:25.920 --> 01:09:31.920 world that you could learn what it is. But I'd 01:09:31.920 --> 01:09:33.979 say the same for the internet. We all use it 01:09:33.979 --> 01:09:37.420 every day. Do we get it, really? There's some 01:09:37.420 --> 01:09:39.380 very clever people that do, but we're okay with 01:09:39.380 --> 01:09:43.039 this. So what if you were just listening like 01:09:43.039 --> 01:09:45.500 a submarine? You were just listening. The aim 01:09:45.500 --> 01:09:47.380 of a submarine, we don't want to hit. you know, 01:09:47.439 --> 01:09:48.979 like I was there this morning, it was literally 01:09:48.979 --> 01:09:51.500 in Faslane, like around Faslane almost this morning 01:09:51.500 --> 01:09:54.880 in Scotland. You do not want to press that missile. 01:09:55.239 --> 01:09:57.859 So that's the approach we have in stealth is 01:09:57.859 --> 01:10:00.260 we do not want an intervention. I do not want 01:10:00.260 --> 01:10:03.340 you to take any action at all. All I want you 01:10:03.340 --> 01:10:05.739 to do is to potentially change your perspective. 01:10:06.560 --> 01:10:11.700 So the Lego thing, I think what's so, so... incredible 01:10:11.700 --> 01:10:14.399 about legacy of play as a tool you know i'm going 01:10:14.399 --> 01:10:15.859 to talk about the way i use it but it's just 01:10:15.859 --> 01:10:17.899 worth a google anyone who you know there's a 01:10:17.899 --> 01:10:19.739 lot of people who do the kind of vanilla version 01:10:19.739 --> 01:10:22.899 and and go do it michael fern top is the best 01:10:22.899 --> 01:10:26.180 as far as what i've seen what i've seen um and 01:10:26.180 --> 01:10:28.180 i was like if we're talking a different language 01:10:28.180 --> 01:10:31.199 here like legacy was playing without words is 01:10:31.199 --> 01:10:33.600 is game changing that was the best part of inner 01:10:33.600 --> 01:10:35.319 army you know we went back and like right that's 01:10:35.319 --> 01:10:38.529 what can we make this tool that if you can de 01:10:38.529 --> 01:10:40.770 -escalate a situation you can get someone to 01:10:40.770 --> 01:10:43.890 communicate subconsciously you are off to the 01:10:43.890 --> 01:10:47.649 races you know like words are very weak and i 01:10:47.649 --> 01:10:50.229 love words i'm a big fan you know books that 01:10:50.229 --> 01:10:55.149 kind of stuff but josh will attend to this like 01:10:55.149 --> 01:10:58.189 you can perform exorcisms with lego serious play 01:10:58.189 --> 01:11:00.210 in a really good way and that's like quite a 01:11:00.210 --> 01:11:02.729 scary word you think oh god no it isn't So because 01:11:02.729 --> 01:11:04.750 someone is possessed and I'm sure James would 01:11:04.750 --> 01:11:06.989 love to hear you at the end of this little interlude 01:11:06.989 --> 01:11:08.590 with me and Josh, if you know anyone like this, 01:11:08.649 --> 01:11:13.050 but like, I think people are carrying potentially 01:11:13.050 --> 01:11:18.630 the, the time bomb of their future suicide, trauma, 01:11:18.890 --> 01:11:23.250 whatever. So what if you got to the bomb before 01:11:23.250 --> 01:11:25.390 it went off rather than waiting to wear that? 01:11:25.409 --> 01:11:27.210 And that's, you know, the preventative magic, 01:11:27.310 --> 01:11:29.310 the X factor that, you know, that I would buy, 01:11:29.390 --> 01:11:31.149 I would buy this tool. I'd be like, Oh my God, 01:11:31.189 --> 01:11:33.069 this is, this is just this. if you can show me 01:11:33.069 --> 01:11:36.130 that, if I can, if I can give you the tool that's 01:11:36.130 --> 01:11:39.789 going to save your best friend's life, like 10 01:11:39.789 --> 01:11:42.229 years before he even thinks about committing 01:11:42.229 --> 01:11:45.850 suicide. And that's what stealth is. And that's 01:11:45.850 --> 01:11:48.229 what it does. It's a de -escalation tool that 01:11:48.229 --> 01:11:51.609 uses Lego series play and, um, without fail, 01:11:51.670 --> 01:11:55.949 people who do it, um, always start with, this 01:11:55.949 --> 01:12:02.039 is. batshit. Like, what is this? But if the SBS 01:12:02.039 --> 01:12:04.560 and, you know, some of the kind of people we 01:12:04.560 --> 01:12:07.140 work with say it's good, then it must have something 01:12:07.140 --> 01:12:09.300 in it. And I think Josh even said that. And Josh 01:12:09.300 --> 01:12:11.180 looked at the website and went, this is crappers, 01:12:11.300 --> 01:12:13.579 but if Gary Bamford, the ex -Sergeant Major of 01:12:13.579 --> 01:12:15.060 the SBS, said it's all right, there has to be 01:12:15.060 --> 01:12:19.680 something in this. And now we've kind of done 01:12:19.680 --> 01:12:24.319 as much research as we can, physically can. But 01:12:24.319 --> 01:12:27.029 I don't understand this subconsciously. That 01:12:27.029 --> 01:12:29.970 doesn't mean it doesn't work. And I don't want 01:12:29.970 --> 01:12:31.430 to understand it fully. I don't want to mess 01:12:31.430 --> 01:12:32.810 around with Josh's subconscious. I don't want 01:12:32.810 --> 01:12:34.229 to get in there and do interventions. I don't 01:12:34.229 --> 01:12:35.789 want to kind of, I'm not going to tell you that 01:12:35.789 --> 01:12:38.449 I could give him advice. I didn't give him advice. 01:12:38.630 --> 01:12:40.689 Whatever, you build it. You build your own, your 01:12:40.689 --> 01:12:42.529 internal world is your internal world. And in 01:12:42.529 --> 01:12:44.149 10 minutes time, it could be completely different. 01:12:44.949 --> 01:12:47.130 But getting it out, that exorcism, that kind 01:12:47.130 --> 01:12:49.869 of getting it out on the table means people can 01:12:49.869 --> 01:12:53.470 help you. And they can offer suggestions to you 01:12:53.470 --> 01:12:56.149 subconsciously that are going to stick to the 01:12:56.149 --> 01:12:58.909 point where you're not going to be able to sleep 01:12:58.909 --> 01:13:01.130 at night because you can't wait to take your 01:13:01.130 --> 01:13:04.750 own action. And that's your business. And I think 01:13:04.750 --> 01:13:07.329 this is just, Josh, the absolute rampant. You 01:13:07.329 --> 01:13:11.029 now have to say what happened to you and the 01:13:11.029 --> 01:13:13.989 title of that. You know, it's not about me. I'm 01:13:13.989 --> 01:13:16.029 not that clever, and I've only got a master's. 01:13:16.050 --> 01:13:17.770 You know, like, I haven't got a PhD. I've tried 01:13:17.770 --> 01:13:20.489 four times. I'm not clever enough. Like, I think 01:13:20.489 --> 01:13:22.149 I'm probably a little bit nuts myself. In fact, 01:13:22.170 --> 01:13:23.890 no, I'm very nuts. I'm not going to get away 01:13:23.890 --> 01:13:26.710 with that, right? And, you know, I've got people 01:13:26.710 --> 01:13:28.149 in my team who are a lot cleverer than me, and 01:13:28.149 --> 01:13:33.210 that works great. But watching this happen, like, 01:13:33.270 --> 01:13:36.789 is game -changing. Like, it's life -changing. 01:13:36.829 --> 01:13:39.109 It sounds so dramatic, and it's not me picking 01:13:39.109 --> 01:13:42.159 it up as such. But it's needed and we're kind 01:13:42.159 --> 01:13:45.699 of working to the place where it's in the lab 01:13:45.699 --> 01:13:47.680 and we're getting it to a kind of four -day online 01:13:47.680 --> 01:13:49.720 version that can go out to all civil service 01:13:49.720 --> 01:13:52.500 people at a reasonable price that they can access. 01:13:52.840 --> 01:13:55.619 And that's government level and it's some very 01:13:55.619 --> 01:13:58.119 heavy conversations like that. But I think it's 01:13:58.119 --> 01:14:03.739 a weapon of optimism that is needed. And the 01:14:03.739 --> 01:14:07.060 longer it doesn't get out, the more people are 01:14:07.060 --> 01:14:12.260 going to die. yeah you know and i wouldn't believe 01:14:12.260 --> 01:14:14.399 me if i was listening to this so that's kind 01:14:14.399 --> 01:14:17.060 of why josh is here so yeah that's josh to just 01:14:17.060 --> 01:14:21.800 tell the absolute dirty ugly truth of when we 01:14:21.800 --> 01:14:25.619 kind of broke him a little bit josh preamble 01:14:25.619 --> 01:14:29.619 to that even from outside talk to me about what 01:14:29.619 --> 01:14:31.539 it even is because a lot of people probably have 01:14:31.539 --> 01:14:33.520 no concept of what we're even talking about so 01:14:33.520 --> 01:14:36.340 josh talk about what was presented to you and 01:14:36.340 --> 01:14:38.279 then let's transition to your own personal experience 01:14:39.520 --> 01:14:43.039 I'll be honest. So I was told there was an idea 01:14:43.039 --> 01:14:45.659 coming. The idea was we're going to get some 01:14:45.659 --> 01:14:47.640 Lego in, right? There's a guy who's going to 01:14:47.640 --> 01:14:51.739 bring in some Lego and it's going to basically 01:14:51.739 --> 01:14:54.239 help people solve some of their problems. And 01:14:54.239 --> 01:14:55.680 that's kind of what it was sold to me, which 01:14:55.680 --> 01:14:59.520 I don't think is an overly accurate way of describing 01:14:59.520 --> 01:15:02.020 it. And I'll be honest with you, in the time 01:15:02.020 --> 01:15:03.819 that I've been without, I couldn't even probably 01:15:03.819 --> 01:15:06.760 do it justice with a description because I just 01:15:06.760 --> 01:15:10.619 think it's just... it blows my mind but anyway 01:15:10.619 --> 01:15:13.279 so i thought give that a go sounds all right 01:15:13.279 --> 01:15:17.399 sounds fun you know um but i've just realized 01:15:17.399 --> 01:15:22.199 that actually like the when you experience it 01:15:22.199 --> 01:15:23.779 and when you do it you realize that although 01:15:23.779 --> 01:15:27.859 there's so much in it it's really simple and 01:15:27.859 --> 01:15:29.399 i don't know if you agree with that but like 01:15:29.399 --> 01:15:32.939 it's like I listen to Al talk when we do our 01:15:32.939 --> 01:15:35.340 sessions and all the things that he explains 01:15:35.340 --> 01:15:37.619 and the bits that we go through. And, you know, 01:15:37.699 --> 01:15:40.560 it's there's so much that he's put into it. But 01:15:40.560 --> 01:15:43.460 in its essence, what it is, it's so simple and 01:15:43.460 --> 01:15:47.260 easy that you don't need to be you don't need 01:15:47.260 --> 01:15:49.460 to be a genius to do it. Academically, I'm not 01:15:49.460 --> 01:15:53.640 the best, but. It's so simple that I can sit 01:15:53.640 --> 01:15:56.800 there and get well stuck in and it's effective. 01:15:57.039 --> 01:15:59.220 It's brilliant. The people that like the sessions 01:15:59.220 --> 01:16:01.439 that we've done out, as you'll agree, like it's 01:16:01.439 --> 01:16:05.479 everyone has been able to just almost fall into 01:16:05.479 --> 01:16:07.460 it. Even people who don't buy it at the start, 01:16:07.560 --> 01:16:09.560 because you don't buy it at the start. If someone 01:16:09.560 --> 01:16:11.079 says, right, we're going to sit here and play 01:16:11.079 --> 01:16:14.239 with some Lego. You think, right, well, we got 01:16:14.239 --> 01:16:15.819 other stuff to do, but all right, let's give 01:16:15.819 --> 01:16:17.619 it a go. And then by the end of it, you come 01:16:17.619 --> 01:16:20.500 out and I. Every session I've come out, I think 01:16:20.500 --> 01:16:23.460 I've looked at you and I've gone, that was a 01:16:23.460 --> 01:16:27.260 great session. You know, it's just so much in 01:16:27.260 --> 01:16:30.020 it. And it just hits so many different great 01:16:30.020 --> 01:16:32.720 points and different levels of that. And it is 01:16:32.720 --> 01:16:35.699 brilliant. I probably haven't answered your question 01:16:35.699 --> 01:16:37.340 there, though. No, no, let's frame it a different 01:16:37.340 --> 01:16:40.520 way. You're sitting down. What does it even look 01:16:40.520 --> 01:16:42.960 like? So, you know, what is given to you? What 01:16:42.960 --> 01:16:45.260 are the things that you're instructed to do? 01:16:45.500 --> 01:16:47.500 And then what are the things that start coming 01:16:47.500 --> 01:16:50.640 up from that therapy? So I think in essence, 01:16:50.739 --> 01:16:53.460 we'll be sat around a table in our group, a big 01:16:53.460 --> 01:16:58.020 pile of Lego in the middle, given sort of a plate 01:16:58.020 --> 01:17:03.430 to build on. And Al will give us a task. you 01:17:03.430 --> 01:17:07.329 know and um i'll use the the duck one as an example 01:17:07.329 --> 01:17:10.529 if that's all right so first session day one 01:17:10.529 --> 01:17:15.569 he said to us right build a duck and naturally 01:17:15.569 --> 01:17:17.390 i'm thinking in my head what does a duck even 01:17:17.390 --> 01:17:20.029 look like and how am i going to make that in 01:17:20.029 --> 01:17:24.850 front of me in 30 seconds and so everyone builds 01:17:24.850 --> 01:17:29.369 their duck and they all look completely different 01:17:30.460 --> 01:17:32.600 ridiculously different, unfathomably different. 01:17:33.220 --> 01:17:35.819 But the whole concept behind that task is it's 01:17:35.819 --> 01:17:38.140 a duck to everyone. It's the same thing to everyone, 01:17:38.239 --> 01:17:39.920 but it's completely different at the same time. 01:17:40.220 --> 01:17:42.720 And that's what I took away from that just 30 01:17:42.720 --> 01:17:45.939 second exercise of we've all been given the same 01:17:45.939 --> 01:17:50.479 task. We've all gone in with the same idea of 01:17:50.479 --> 01:17:52.500 we need to build a duck, but they look completely 01:17:52.500 --> 01:17:55.989 different. But to us, it means a duck. if that 01:17:55.989 --> 01:17:58.350 does that make sense yes and i think that is 01:17:58.350 --> 01:18:00.529 a very basic explanation of one of the things 01:18:00.529 --> 01:18:04.729 that we've done with it um you know but to summarize 01:18:04.729 --> 01:18:07.069 al gives us a task we build it and then we pick 01:18:07.069 --> 01:18:11.090 apart like okay talk about it explain it why 01:18:11.090 --> 01:18:13.489 is that a duck why why is that a duck to you 01:18:13.489 --> 01:18:16.949 the same is why does that mean why does that 01:18:16.949 --> 01:18:19.069 particular model mean something else why does 01:18:19.069 --> 01:18:23.090 this mean that um and it is basic i would say 01:18:23.090 --> 01:18:24.409 that's probably what you're looking for as an 01:18:24.409 --> 01:18:29.250 explanation yeah and i'd say like you ramp it 01:18:29.250 --> 01:18:31.930 up to there um it's great actually that's fine 01:18:31.930 --> 01:18:34.649 and then you know i mentioned the vanilla serious 01:18:34.649 --> 01:18:37.409 play legacy play and the first two exercises 01:18:37.409 --> 01:18:40.029 are build a duck and build a tower everyone does 01:18:40.029 --> 01:18:42.970 that you know that's what you start and um that's 01:18:42.970 --> 01:18:45.770 where we part ways like what we do is start with 01:18:45.770 --> 01:18:48.770 the normal uh part of legacy play but that duck 01:18:48.770 --> 01:18:51.920 thing is is key you know everyone goes like a 01:18:51.920 --> 01:18:54.340 duck and so many people build yellow and you 01:18:54.340 --> 01:18:55.560 know they kind of give you so many more secrets 01:18:55.560 --> 01:18:58.500 away and just go isn't that a chick it's not 01:18:58.500 --> 01:19:01.359 a chicken that's that's a little chick surely 01:19:01.359 --> 01:19:04.199 like no they're like and someone's like builds 01:19:04.199 --> 01:19:07.260 a mallard then someone builds a bridge and ducking 01:19:07.260 --> 01:19:11.119 under a bridge and they're like okay and like 01:19:11.119 --> 01:19:12.579 josh says and you're like and you start going 01:19:12.579 --> 01:19:15.760 and people like hang on like what's what's going 01:19:15.760 --> 01:19:19.090 on here And I would say, or, you know, the course 01:19:19.090 --> 01:19:21.750 says is like, we hallucinate our own reality. 01:19:22.569 --> 01:19:25.270 Like, so we're going to watch this back. And 01:19:25.270 --> 01:19:27.050 there'll be things that I've said, Josh has said, 01:19:27.090 --> 01:19:29.670 you said, James, that you would almost swear 01:19:29.670 --> 01:19:32.859 you didn't say. you know and like so you're like 01:19:32.859 --> 01:19:35.380 hang on a second like and the brilliant example 01:19:35.380 --> 01:19:37.680 is is a song right you know most people have 01:19:37.680 --> 01:19:39.079 got a song that means something to them where 01:19:39.079 --> 01:19:40.439 it's being played at a wedding or a funeral and 01:19:40.439 --> 01:19:41.939 it comes on they start crying they're like oh 01:19:41.939 --> 01:19:44.739 my god now the truth of that is the artist who 01:19:44.739 --> 01:19:47.659 wrote that song weren't thinking about you do 01:19:47.659 --> 01:19:50.399 you mean like it wasn't created for you wasn't 01:19:50.399 --> 01:19:51.880 it and the next person will listen to it and 01:19:51.880 --> 01:19:55.859 feel nothing so who's so who's what's real who's 01:19:55.859 --> 01:19:57.560 who's because to them they're in floods of tears 01:19:57.560 --> 01:19:59.300 they're like oh my god that's a real emotion 01:19:59.300 --> 01:20:01.789 it's a real physical reaction But to them, so 01:20:01.789 --> 01:20:04.750 if we're saying that reality itself isn't real, 01:20:04.970 --> 01:20:08.329 and because it isn't, because to Josh's dirk 01:20:08.329 --> 01:20:09.789 is completely different to my dirk, well, it's 01:20:09.789 --> 01:20:12.289 the same dirk. If we can't even agree on one 01:20:12.289 --> 01:20:15.449 word of the English language to have a conversation 01:20:15.449 --> 01:20:18.430 that means the same thing, we've got a massive 01:20:18.430 --> 01:20:21.550 problem with conflict and de -escalation. That 01:20:21.550 --> 01:20:23.970 means basically you're flawed, like consciously, 01:20:24.149 --> 01:20:26.810 and then we're like, right, okay, now going subconsciously, 01:20:26.810 --> 01:20:29.250 and it goes from dirk to tower, and then we build 01:20:29.250 --> 01:20:31.739 up to... you know, the kind of the tasks that 01:20:31.739 --> 01:20:33.739 I think, you know, I just was going to kind of 01:20:33.739 --> 01:20:36.579 talk about where actually you start asking questions 01:20:36.579 --> 01:20:38.739 like, could you build a bridge from who you were 01:20:38.739 --> 01:20:42.060 to who you are? And you've got six minutes or 01:20:42.060 --> 01:20:44.899 build your worst day as a firefighter. And you've 01:20:44.899 --> 01:20:48.880 got 30 seconds and the speed of the build means 01:20:48.880 --> 01:20:51.260 you cannot think it's an impossible task. You'll 01:20:51.260 --> 01:20:53.920 fail if you approach it consciously. And I think 01:20:53.920 --> 01:20:57.539 what's cool is, you know, it's. The stealth course 01:20:57.539 --> 01:20:58.979 is such, you know, and it's kind of the website's 01:20:58.979 --> 01:21:00.680 Lego series play conflict resolution, but the 01:21:00.680 --> 01:21:03.840 tool is called stuff. And it's, you know, you 01:21:03.840 --> 01:21:05.140 asked what it is and stuff and like, you know, 01:21:05.180 --> 01:21:06.739 and I'm interested if Joshua would agree with 01:21:06.739 --> 01:21:08.859 this, but like I'd say de -escalation tool. That's 01:21:08.859 --> 01:21:10.520 what it is that uses Lego, but I still think 01:21:10.520 --> 01:21:13.119 that doesn't do it justice. But when you start 01:21:13.119 --> 01:21:15.979 teaching people and teaching prison officers 01:21:15.979 --> 01:21:19.460 how to create their own subconscious ecosystem 01:21:19.460 --> 01:21:23.119 with Lego bricks, they ain't talking. There's 01:21:23.119 --> 01:21:25.180 a bit of talking, but not really. It's what you 01:21:25.180 --> 01:21:27.439 build. It's the meaning behind the bricks that 01:21:27.439 --> 01:21:30.840 you build. You can remember things that people 01:21:30.840 --> 01:21:33.760 have attached to those bricks eight weeks ago 01:21:33.760 --> 01:21:38.260 and with amazing clarity. You're like, wow, okay, 01:21:38.279 --> 01:21:41.600 this works. But crucially, then once a problem's 01:21:41.600 --> 01:21:44.600 out, things like, and I'm sure we'll go into 01:21:44.600 --> 01:21:47.090 it in a minute, you know, if you have a particular 01:21:47.090 --> 01:21:48.869 problem and there's, say there's three of us, 01:21:48.909 --> 01:21:50.930 right? Okay. So my problem, you know, so real 01:21:50.930 --> 01:21:53.369 problem, right? I'm on my knees. No sympathy 01:21:53.369 --> 01:21:55.149 needed, whatever. I'm working too hard, whatever. 01:21:55.970 --> 01:21:59.250 I need some sleep. Yeah, great. Okay. So, but 01:21:59.250 --> 01:22:02.069 I've got a crazy schedule. What do I do? So you 01:22:02.069 --> 01:22:05.449 guys have got three plates each and on each plate, 01:22:05.510 --> 01:22:07.210 I'd like you to put two solutions of what works 01:22:07.210 --> 01:22:10.770 for you. You've got 20 seconds, go. So maths. 01:22:12.510 --> 01:22:14.270 And I'm tired, so I'm like, shit, I don't know 01:22:14.270 --> 01:22:15.750 how many that is. That's a lot of solutions, 01:22:15.810 --> 01:22:18.750 right, in 30 seconds. So then you walk through 01:22:18.750 --> 01:22:21.050 all of those solutions and then I self -select 01:22:21.050 --> 01:22:23.930 one that's going to work for me. You've just 01:22:23.930 --> 01:22:26.670 saved probably about five hours of conversation. 01:22:28.510 --> 01:22:31.489 And I've chosen the answer. And how do you know 01:22:31.489 --> 01:22:34.029 I'm telling the truth? And how do you know that 01:22:34.029 --> 01:22:36.310 actually I'm not comfortable saying my problem? 01:22:36.760 --> 01:22:39.359 on a podcast with you or you or you or you. And 01:22:39.359 --> 01:22:41.000 actually, because if it was a conversation, I'm 01:22:41.000 --> 01:22:43.380 too busy going, thank you so much, James, for 01:22:43.380 --> 01:22:44.979 your solution. I'm going to go and try that out. 01:22:45.020 --> 01:22:47.819 I'm at my balls. Not at all. I'm just appeasing 01:22:47.819 --> 01:22:49.579 you because I feel bad that you're offering me 01:22:49.579 --> 01:22:51.300 a solution that I know is not going to work. 01:22:51.460 --> 01:22:54.439 So we're both wasting just so much wasted time. 01:22:54.760 --> 01:22:56.300 You know, we're actually like kind of this is 01:22:56.300 --> 01:22:59.680 like if you if you if you are brave enough to 01:22:59.680 --> 01:23:03.090 kind of open yourself up in bricks. then you 01:23:03.090 --> 01:23:06.789 can solve problems that are huge, you know, and 01:23:06.789 --> 01:23:08.489 solve problems, you know, solve problems that 01:23:08.489 --> 01:23:10.390 you don't even need to say what the problem is 01:23:10.390 --> 01:23:14.310 and you can solve it. Like yourself, like, what? 01:23:15.550 --> 01:23:18.649 How's that even, what? And I think it's been 01:23:18.649 --> 01:23:21.750 a business problem of, and James, you're touching 01:23:21.750 --> 01:23:23.949 it perfectly. People will not understand what 01:23:23.949 --> 01:23:27.470 you're saying. Yep. so actually this is and this 01:23:27.470 --> 01:23:28.630 is what we said didn't we before we started recording 01:23:28.630 --> 01:23:32.109 it's like now uncomfortably as an introvert i 01:23:32.109 --> 01:23:33.829 gotta start talking hence why there's a book 01:23:33.829 --> 01:23:35.909 coming out there's a documentary coming out it's 01:23:35.909 --> 01:23:37.550 gonna be online course coming out to explain 01:23:37.550 --> 01:23:40.590 and people get it and they get it quickly um 01:23:40.590 --> 01:23:43.010 and it's speed you ain't got time you ain't got 01:23:43.010 --> 01:23:45.810 time to like whatever so if you can solve a problem 01:23:45.810 --> 01:23:48.789 you know five times faster rather than make something 01:23:48.789 --> 01:23:52.590 five percent better then why would you not you 01:23:52.590 --> 01:23:56.090 know so yeah Do tell, Josh. Do tell about your 01:23:56.090 --> 01:23:59.729 Wednesday. Yeah, and then Lincoln, so we did 01:23:59.729 --> 01:24:03.069 an exercise earlier in the week in our group 01:24:03.069 --> 01:24:08.329 where I basically had to identify something that 01:24:08.329 --> 01:24:11.189 wasn't necessarily going to plan in my life at 01:24:11.189 --> 01:24:13.949 the moment. So something that I'm currently dealing 01:24:13.949 --> 01:24:17.789 with. Didn't go into it too much with the rest 01:24:17.789 --> 01:24:20.609 of the team. However, put it out there, right? 01:24:20.670 --> 01:24:23.729 So this is the kind of broad idea behind it. 01:24:24.520 --> 01:24:26.439 and obviously with that so i built it and then 01:24:26.439 --> 01:24:29.140 i'm explaining what i've built and i didn't even 01:24:29.140 --> 01:24:31.859 notice it but al picked up on it straight away 01:24:31.859 --> 01:24:35.979 and you could tell that i'm i'm i'm in there 01:24:35.979 --> 01:24:37.960 like and we talk about when al talks about the 01:24:37.960 --> 01:24:40.199 submarine you know i'm down in the depths i'm 01:24:40.199 --> 01:24:44.659 i'm i was i was there wasn't i and then the task 01:24:44.659 --> 01:24:47.220 for the rest of the group was to including myself 01:24:47.220 --> 01:24:50.680 was to build potential solutions so i think we 01:24:50.680 --> 01:24:54.229 had to pick four was it four in In a group of 01:24:54.229 --> 01:24:57.010 four, wasn't it? So four forward solution, yeah. 01:24:57.369 --> 01:25:00.010 Yeah. So by the end of that very short period, 01:25:00.130 --> 01:25:03.770 I had 16 solutions there in front of me. And 01:25:03.770 --> 01:25:06.590 I think the good thing about it was is I could, 01:25:06.710 --> 01:25:08.689 because they were visually there in front of 01:25:08.689 --> 01:25:10.890 me, I could picture myself actually doing them 01:25:10.890 --> 01:25:13.710 in a conversation. If everyone was talking 16 01:25:13.710 --> 01:25:17.130 solutions through with me, I'd have lost. They'd 01:25:17.130 --> 01:25:20.170 have been gone. But I had them all there in front 01:25:20.170 --> 01:25:24.020 of me on a plate. to take my pick right and we 01:25:24.020 --> 01:25:26.100 noticed as people were because you gave me the 01:25:26.100 --> 01:25:28.760 task didn't you of sit there and write down a 01:25:28.760 --> 01:25:31.100 keyword from each person's solution to try and 01:25:31.100 --> 01:25:34.159 remember it I stopped writing it for I didn't 01:25:34.159 --> 01:25:37.399 even notice that subconsciously my mind just 01:25:37.399 --> 01:25:40.960 went I it was too much people trying to talk 01:25:40.960 --> 01:25:42.899 through it but then when it comes back to me 01:25:42.899 --> 01:25:45.140 and it's put in front of me and I had the option 01:25:45.140 --> 01:25:48.399 to pick them myself I picked ones that a I knew 01:25:48.399 --> 01:25:51.449 that are reasonable for me that i knew that i 01:25:51.449 --> 01:25:53.189 could achieve and that i could actually see myself 01:25:53.189 --> 01:25:58.189 doing and by the end of it this problem i've 01:25:58.189 --> 01:26:00.710 got i think i had five in the end and i i think 01:26:00.710 --> 01:26:02.729 i think i picked five there was five that i liked 01:26:02.729 --> 01:26:06.310 i picked five and i had these five solutions 01:26:06.310 --> 01:26:10.090 in front of me where i could start to implement 01:26:10.090 --> 01:26:13.529 that to sort of help myself and it felt good 01:26:13.529 --> 01:26:15.529 but i was still down there at that point and 01:26:15.529 --> 01:26:18.050 then Quick time, wasn't it? You switched. You 01:26:18.050 --> 01:26:21.449 switched up and it was right. Now everyone say 01:26:21.449 --> 01:26:23.090 something nice about this person in the group. 01:26:23.329 --> 01:26:25.890 So then we all had to build something that represented 01:26:25.890 --> 01:26:29.250 a nice thing about that other person. That completely 01:26:29.250 --> 01:26:31.189 brought me back out of where I was. So I was 01:26:31.189 --> 01:26:33.789 down here in it, thinking about my problem, trying 01:26:33.789 --> 01:26:35.729 to think, oh my God, what's going on? How am 01:26:35.729 --> 01:26:37.449 I going to get through this? How am I going to 01:26:37.449 --> 01:26:38.810 sort this out? How am I going to sort that out? 01:26:38.890 --> 01:26:40.909 How am I going to implement that? And then just 01:26:40.909 --> 01:26:45.460 boom, gone. Completely disappeared. I couldn't 01:26:45.460 --> 01:26:51.239 even tell you how I went from A to B. I couldn't 01:26:51.239 --> 01:26:52.739 explain it. I couldn't put it into words, could 01:26:52.739 --> 01:26:55.680 I? You asked me. I couldn't even remember where 01:26:55.680 --> 01:26:59.159 I was because the switch up that Al did through 01:26:59.159 --> 01:27:02.439 the use of the task that he set us just completely 01:27:02.439 --> 01:27:06.300 took it away. But I still recognize that I've 01:27:06.300 --> 01:27:09.840 got those solutions available to me. But the 01:27:09.840 --> 01:27:14.300 whole element of being down in it is gone and 01:27:14.300 --> 01:27:16.279 i can look back think about my solutions without 01:27:16.279 --> 01:27:19.659 having to be in that pit again or down in the 01:27:19.659 --> 01:27:22.300 depths of you set as you say with stealth um 01:27:22.300 --> 01:27:24.079 and i think that kind of that's to summarize 01:27:24.079 --> 01:27:26.060 pretty much what we did and it was it was intense 01:27:26.060 --> 01:27:29.920 it was it was probably about a 10 minute exercise 01:27:29.920 --> 01:27:34.420 10 15 minutes of playing with lego and building 01:27:34.420 --> 01:27:38.199 some things out of lego but the emotional sort 01:27:38.199 --> 01:27:40.819 of down and up that i did in those 10 minutes 01:27:40.819 --> 01:27:46.210 15 minutes was was massive and you know you noticed 01:27:46.210 --> 01:27:48.590 it didn't you in my body language and my presentation 01:27:48.590 --> 01:27:52.189 the way I was speaking it was but it was brilliant 01:27:52.189 --> 01:27:55.170 at the same time looking at it and actually experiencing 01:27:55.170 --> 01:27:58.989 it myself I was just kind of like wow that's 01:27:58.989 --> 01:28:03.170 really good and it I I hate it because I can't 01:28:03.170 --> 01:28:05.210 explain it enough and do it justice in how it 01:28:05.210 --> 01:28:07.649 felt because it's one of those where you've got 01:28:07.649 --> 01:28:11.270 to be in it to to really know um but honestly 01:28:11.270 --> 01:28:15.279 brilliant I can't remember if I, did we cover 01:28:15.279 --> 01:28:18.140 anything else on that bit? I think that was the 01:28:18.140 --> 01:28:19.720 long and short of what we did in that session, 01:28:19.800 --> 01:28:23.579 wasn't it? Yeah. I think I'd add, yeah, the metaphor 01:28:23.579 --> 01:28:25.859 and stuff is like, is the submarine thing about 01:28:25.859 --> 01:28:28.180 kind of the rules under the water are not the 01:28:28.180 --> 01:28:30.760 same as the rules above the water, you know, 01:28:30.779 --> 01:28:32.279 standard psychology, nothing wrong with that, 01:28:32.300 --> 01:28:34.380 you know, cool. But the rules down there, you 01:28:34.380 --> 01:28:36.439 know, and I think Josh said. something i'm gonna 01:28:36.439 --> 01:28:39.060 pick up on about um you know i said to say something 01:28:39.060 --> 01:28:40.840 nice i'll build something nice for someone else 01:28:40.840 --> 01:28:44.340 um and it sounds um it sounds so weak doesn't 01:28:44.340 --> 01:28:47.640 it well how would that help how would that what's 01:28:47.640 --> 01:28:49.359 the science behind that that's where you've got 01:28:49.359 --> 01:28:51.020 to do your homework and read the papers and find 01:28:51.020 --> 01:28:52.979 out actually underneath that is the broaden and 01:28:52.979 --> 01:28:56.020 build theory meaning that if you're able to conceptualize 01:28:56.020 --> 01:28:58.699 and kind of you know into a brick and give a 01:28:58.699 --> 01:29:02.060 brick to somebody else then you're not focusing 01:29:02.060 --> 01:29:03.760 on your own stuff and you know we talk about 01:29:03.760 --> 01:29:07.180 how And Josh, you know, was saying about coming 01:29:07.180 --> 01:29:09.899 up from the depths. And we've even got a kind 01:29:09.899 --> 01:29:12.619 of a thing where, you know, the bends, you know, 01:29:12.640 --> 01:29:14.380 being like, you know, for those unfamiliar with 01:29:14.380 --> 01:29:16.939 diving terms and stuff is you come up too fast 01:29:16.939 --> 01:29:18.819 from the depths and like you'll get bubbles in 01:29:18.819 --> 01:29:21.159 your brain and blood and it can kill you. Like 01:29:21.159 --> 01:29:24.119 it's awful. And it's, although it's not a psychological 01:29:24.119 --> 01:29:29.279 tool, I think it's, we've spent a long time in 01:29:29.279 --> 01:29:32.199 like, this has got to be safe. you know like 01:29:32.199 --> 01:29:33.880 weird like it's scary listening to like on the 01:29:33.880 --> 01:29:35.239 one hand you know josh is like it works it's 01:29:35.239 --> 01:29:37.079 you know great but they'll be like hang on i 01:29:37.079 --> 01:29:39.039 don't want someone down in my depths like what 01:29:39.039 --> 01:29:41.100 are you about like not a chance and actually 01:29:41.100 --> 01:29:45.579 great but it's josh on his own in his own submarine 01:29:45.579 --> 01:29:49.770 sorting his own shit out And that's, I think, 01:29:49.789 --> 01:29:51.409 kind of one of the USPs and stuff. But when you're 01:29:51.409 --> 01:29:54.069 bringing people up, it has to be gentle. So it 01:29:54.069 --> 01:29:57.449 was very fast, but it was gentle. And as Josh 01:29:57.449 --> 01:30:01.350 kind of, not regain consciousness, but I guess 01:30:01.350 --> 01:30:04.069 that's the closest words I've got. I would probably 01:30:04.069 --> 01:30:06.970 agree with that. It's getting back into the room, 01:30:07.050 --> 01:30:13.510 isn't it? Because I felt myself away. And you 01:30:13.510 --> 01:30:18.100 did bring me back into what we were doing. And 01:30:18.100 --> 01:30:21.039 then it kind of has a tangible solution. And 01:30:21.039 --> 01:30:22.739 one of those tangible solutions is literally 01:30:22.739 --> 01:30:27.180 happening right now. And I don't mean to ask 01:30:27.180 --> 01:30:29.159 him the question and not in an arrogant way. 01:30:29.220 --> 01:30:32.119 I know he's better. I know he's going to be fine. 01:30:32.260 --> 01:30:35.340 And we haven't solved the problem. We've solved 01:30:35.340 --> 01:30:38.020 what was underneath the problem, and he's fine. 01:30:38.399 --> 01:30:41.619 And what's really cool is not only did he solve 01:30:41.619 --> 01:30:44.859 his own problem, it revealed to me that actually... 01:30:45.439 --> 01:30:47.560 He was, you know, and, you know, I was going 01:30:47.560 --> 01:30:48.979 to say stop me if you want, but you can't because 01:30:48.979 --> 01:30:50.840 it's whatever. So I'll say it with, you know, 01:30:50.859 --> 01:30:53.659 clarity, but like, you know, the prison service 01:30:53.659 --> 01:30:55.159 is in trouble. We've said that already, you know, 01:30:55.159 --> 01:30:56.979 like, and it was weighing on you hugely. It was 01:30:56.979 --> 01:30:58.520 a big part of this problem and it was really 01:30:58.520 --> 01:31:02.180 affecting him. Well, I can't fix, you can't, 01:31:02.180 --> 01:31:04.760 no one can fix that whole solution, but actually 01:31:04.760 --> 01:31:08.239 by kind of Josh working out what subconscious 01:31:08.239 --> 01:31:10.640 thing he needs to do, bringing it to the surface, 01:31:10.739 --> 01:31:13.020 letting his conscious mind, you know, after a 01:31:13.020 --> 01:31:15.220 sleep and stuff go like. Right, now I'm going 01:31:15.220 --> 01:31:17.560 to do this. And then here he is talking about 01:31:17.560 --> 01:31:19.899 it, potentially helping how many prison officers, 01:31:20.159 --> 01:31:22.479 putting together a piece of positive media about 01:31:22.479 --> 01:31:24.859 prison officers. And we're back full circle to 01:31:24.859 --> 01:31:27.520 the selflessness thing. And all of that happened 01:31:27.520 --> 01:31:30.260 from unconscious to conscious. He didn't lose 01:31:30.260 --> 01:31:32.899 control of his facility. I mean, he did. He did. 01:31:33.020 --> 01:31:36.260 You couldn't hear. You couldn't see. Then he 01:31:36.260 --> 01:31:37.520 comes back and now he's helping other people. 01:31:37.619 --> 01:31:40.619 We're back to selfishness, selflessness, and 01:31:40.619 --> 01:31:43.079 helping others. And it's from Lego bricks and 01:31:43.079 --> 01:31:47.439 mental. And I think it's like at the end of the 01:31:47.439 --> 01:31:49.819 last session as well, I highlighted that. So 01:31:49.819 --> 01:31:52.779 the group that we do it with, I mean, yes, we 01:31:52.779 --> 01:31:55.739 work in the same place and they're lovely people, 01:31:55.840 --> 01:32:00.119 but I couldn't tell you a right lot about them 01:32:00.119 --> 01:32:02.460 outside of their names and what they do. However, 01:32:02.619 --> 01:32:05.500 we've been through some pretty intense stuff 01:32:05.500 --> 01:32:07.460 as a group, haven't we, Al? And it's like all 01:32:07.460 --> 01:32:14.029 through the medium of Lego. It's been brilliant. 01:32:14.270 --> 01:32:17.510 But again, I know things about the group that 01:32:17.510 --> 01:32:20.890 I do it with that I wouldn't know about people 01:32:20.890 --> 01:32:26.369 who are much closer to me. But we've had that 01:32:26.369 --> 01:32:31.409 medium to sort of engage and talk and talk about 01:32:31.409 --> 01:32:33.510 these things that are going on with each other 01:32:33.510 --> 01:32:37.189 without actually having to sit down and do too 01:32:37.189 --> 01:32:39.890 much digging with it. We can build it and see 01:32:39.890 --> 01:32:43.199 it. I can see how they feel about what they're 01:32:43.199 --> 01:32:46.840 going through in front of me visually out of 01:32:46.840 --> 01:32:50.739 plastic. I can see how they feel. What a kind 01:32:50.739 --> 01:32:53.380 of cool sentence. And question, Josh, for you. 01:32:53.420 --> 01:32:58.600 Would you say you would have got to that depth 01:32:58.600 --> 01:33:02.420 with just language or conversation? No, I mean, 01:33:02.939 --> 01:33:05.619 personally, I struggle to get my words out. As 01:33:05.619 --> 01:33:07.260 we've noticed throughout this, I've stumbled 01:33:07.260 --> 01:33:10.159 a little bit, but I struggle with talking and 01:33:10.159 --> 01:33:12.819 communicating. I struggle with actually presenting 01:33:12.819 --> 01:33:15.539 my thoughts into sentences sometimes. But with 01:33:15.539 --> 01:33:18.640 this, I can literally build it. I can be in there 01:33:18.640 --> 01:33:21.460 and I go, what does this look like to me? And 01:33:21.460 --> 01:33:24.020 I build it. And then once it's there, I can talk 01:33:24.020 --> 01:33:26.399 about it. This means that, that means that, that 01:33:26.399 --> 01:33:28.079 means that. And everyone can see it. You can 01:33:28.079 --> 01:33:32.149 see how that. is what it is to me can't you i 01:33:32.149 --> 01:33:34.189 mean i'm going to show you like we've got some 01:33:34.189 --> 01:33:36.770 right so like this is that's a bit of lego serious 01:33:36.770 --> 01:33:39.090 play you know the mechanics of the kit itself 01:33:39.090 --> 01:33:41.529 it's 2500 pieces oh you got the same one right 01:33:41.529 --> 01:33:44.489 okay um and everyone's like well that's an elephant 01:33:44.489 --> 01:33:47.350 no it isn't it's the elephant in the room that's 01:33:47.350 --> 01:33:50.470 what it is now me and josh are have got the similar 01:33:50.470 --> 01:33:52.670 model same model that was built by the group 01:33:52.670 --> 01:33:54.310 and you know one of the group you know i'm going 01:33:54.310 --> 01:33:56.810 to say hannah for example like is extremely quiet 01:33:56.810 --> 01:34:00.380 um and it doesn't hadn't really said much and 01:34:00.380 --> 01:34:01.600 kind of you know was kind of doing her stuff 01:34:01.600 --> 01:34:04.880 and then i said one thing about as a reflection 01:34:04.880 --> 01:34:06.600 about how i was kind of really appreciating her 01:34:06.600 --> 01:34:09.239 input and she shared that like you know she would 01:34:09.239 --> 01:34:11.640 sell almost kind of borderline redundant in the 01:34:11.640 --> 01:34:14.899 group that wouldn't wouldn't have come out you 01:34:14.899 --> 01:34:17.600 know so she built this one you know and you know 01:34:17.600 --> 01:34:19.899 and kind of there it is and so like it's the 01:34:19.899 --> 01:34:21.539 actually the elephant in the room is is like 01:34:21.539 --> 01:34:22.939 you know when we were talking about you know 01:34:22.939 --> 01:34:24.840 how do we get this in and what do we do with 01:34:24.840 --> 01:34:27.300 this you know but it's whatever it means to me 01:34:27.300 --> 01:34:29.039 is whatever it means to you i could tell you 01:34:29.039 --> 01:34:31.899 this stands from like you know the sun that i 01:34:31.899 --> 01:34:34.199 never had and it meant you know something to 01:34:34.199 --> 01:34:36.220 do with xyz that's what it is but there's something 01:34:36.220 --> 01:34:39.060 subconscious that locks on that meaning that 01:34:39.060 --> 01:34:41.380 you know is just massive and then to me you know 01:34:41.380 --> 01:34:44.300 these these green things here were like there 01:34:44.300 --> 01:34:46.640 are four of them doing communication towers so 01:34:46.640 --> 01:34:49.289 this is josh this one here or the white one they're 01:34:49.289 --> 01:34:52.329 all the same to represent the unity of like you 01:34:52.329 --> 01:34:55.750 know josh is mega but he's one of a team you 01:34:55.750 --> 01:34:57.609 know it's not we're not doing celebrity status 01:34:57.609 --> 01:35:00.270 here even though he is obviously right and then 01:35:00.270 --> 01:35:02.810 if they start communicating and it's green because 01:35:02.810 --> 01:35:07.710 it's positive and that led us into me remembering 01:35:07.710 --> 01:35:10.550 that i had a podcast with this guy called james 01:35:10.550 --> 01:35:15.430 you know gearing how do you I'm gearing, isn't 01:35:15.430 --> 01:35:17.130 it? Yeah, yeah. I'm going to say greening. I 01:35:17.130 --> 01:35:19.729 have done my homework, I promise, right? And 01:35:19.729 --> 01:35:23.170 that then led into a suggestion of me going, 01:35:23.310 --> 01:35:25.649 right, you're feeling crap about the job. You 01:35:25.649 --> 01:35:27.310 can't leave the job. We can't solve this problem. 01:35:27.350 --> 01:35:30.170 You can't leave your job. You've got to provide, 01:35:30.350 --> 01:35:33.449 do stuff. But actually, maybe you could come 01:35:33.449 --> 01:35:35.369 on. There's no way I would have got, that conversation 01:35:35.369 --> 01:35:37.739 wouldn't have happened. He might have said, oh, 01:35:37.779 --> 01:35:39.460 what are you doing on Friday? I doubt it. You 01:35:39.460 --> 01:35:40.800 know, it just wouldn't have gotten anywhere near 01:35:40.800 --> 01:35:43.840 that. But by talking about green plastic and 01:35:43.840 --> 01:35:46.680 an elephant and something, so my subconscious 01:35:46.680 --> 01:35:50.079 reacts with his subconscious. And then, you know, 01:35:50.119 --> 01:35:52.960 permission to ask a question, you know, Josh, 01:35:53.020 --> 01:35:54.239 what are you doing on Friday night? And he's 01:35:54.239 --> 01:35:55.640 like, well, apparently I'm talking to James. 01:35:55.840 --> 01:35:58.340 Well, there we go. So actually, but we wouldn't 01:35:58.340 --> 01:35:59.859 have even got there. And I think that sums it 01:35:59.859 --> 01:36:04.760 up nicely. It makes the unseen seen. And it does 01:36:04.760 --> 01:36:06.960 it safely and it's not a psychological tool. 01:36:07.100 --> 01:36:09.600 And if I can see your subconscious and you can 01:36:09.600 --> 01:36:11.979 see mine and we stick to the guardrails and that's 01:36:11.979 --> 01:36:14.680 why it takes four days to learn. If you veer 01:36:14.680 --> 01:36:16.739 off, game over. You'll come back automatically 01:36:16.739 --> 01:36:19.300 and you'll end up having a conversation and nothing 01:36:19.300 --> 01:36:21.760 will get solved and it's just not going to happen. 01:36:21.819 --> 01:36:23.159 So you have to stick to the rules, you know, 01:36:23.199 --> 01:36:25.340 because that's what we spent 15 years researching 01:36:25.340 --> 01:36:29.840 this, getting it together. But that's where the 01:36:29.840 --> 01:36:32.579 conflict resolution comes. Josh said, you know, 01:36:32.640 --> 01:36:34.760 he's not great at kind of putting sentences together. 01:36:35.439 --> 01:36:37.579 What does this do for prisoners who can't read 01:36:37.579 --> 01:36:40.979 and write? What does this do for prisoners in 01:36:40.979 --> 01:36:43.560 every country? What does this do for a course 01:36:43.560 --> 01:36:45.380 that can be translated into different languages 01:36:45.380 --> 01:36:48.199 where all you need is the course, the book, documentary, 01:36:48.579 --> 01:36:52.010 bag of Lego, go. Just go. Cause it's not about 01:36:52.010 --> 01:36:53.689 me. I'm not, I'm not, whatever. It's not a money 01:36:53.689 --> 01:36:55.609 -making thing. And so this is, this is something 01:36:55.609 --> 01:36:58.470 that needs to be out there, you know, like, and 01:36:58.470 --> 01:37:03.090 it's breaking me in two and not for sympathy, 01:37:03.130 --> 01:37:05.050 you know, but like it's, it's, but you attract 01:37:05.050 --> 01:37:06.949 people like Josh, you kind of believe the same 01:37:06.949 --> 01:37:08.609 thing, you know, and back to the same thing, 01:37:08.689 --> 01:37:10.170 you know, believe what you believe. And, you 01:37:10.170 --> 01:37:12.390 know, and then James believing what, you know, 01:37:12.430 --> 01:37:14.449 you believe and what, you know, how many people 01:37:14.449 --> 01:37:17.909 are not here anymore who, if they could have. 01:37:18.400 --> 01:37:20.720 healed something that was deep down in there 01:37:20.720 --> 01:37:23.960 would have stopped them taking their own life 01:37:23.960 --> 01:37:26.140 or would have stopped them kind of whatever but 01:37:26.140 --> 01:37:28.079 they could never access it like a hidden language 01:37:28.079 --> 01:37:31.340 they couldn't speak that they couldn't even communicate 01:37:31.340 --> 01:37:35.619 to themselves let alone speak to someone else 01:37:35.619 --> 01:37:37.619 and that's assuming you get over the stigma of 01:37:37.619 --> 01:37:40.460 asking for help because you're a protector and 01:37:40.460 --> 01:37:43.100 so i guess it's you know trying to boil it right 01:37:43.100 --> 01:37:45.500 down it's a language you know stealth is a language 01:37:45.500 --> 01:37:48.210 it's teaching people how to how to communicate 01:37:48.210 --> 01:37:51.130 subconsciously and it's more comfortable for 01:37:51.130 --> 01:37:53.250 people how i find as well like we particularly 01:37:53.250 --> 01:37:55.789 with in the environment that i work in there's 01:37:55.789 --> 01:37:59.489 a divide you know staff prisoners that divide 01:37:59.489 --> 01:38:03.449 is there sadly and sometimes having those conversations 01:38:03.449 --> 01:38:08.149 can be impacted by that but if you're having 01:38:08.149 --> 01:38:11.130 a conversation about what someone's built then 01:38:11.130 --> 01:38:14.170 that divide that wall that's in place knocked 01:38:14.170 --> 01:38:16.810 down straight away i mean we've had some fantastic 01:38:16.810 --> 01:38:21.569 conversations in our sessions and i think it's 01:38:21.569 --> 01:38:24.850 i mean used example that like put two people 01:38:24.850 --> 01:38:28.350 in a room prison officer prisoner by the end 01:38:28.350 --> 01:38:30.069 of it they realize they've got so much in common 01:38:30.069 --> 01:38:32.409 because they've sat there and they've built it 01:38:32.409 --> 01:38:34.729 you know i see what you've done there because 01:38:34.729 --> 01:38:37.720 i see it exactly the same way i've got this i've 01:38:37.720 --> 01:38:39.760 got that and then they talk about how they get 01:38:39.760 --> 01:38:41.539 through it together and it's i just think it's 01:38:41.539 --> 01:38:45.060 brilliant i think it is so simple so elegant 01:38:45.060 --> 01:38:48.460 but so intense and powerful and just it's just 01:38:48.460 --> 01:38:50.739 great it's just great i couldn't i couldn't speak 01:38:50.739 --> 01:38:52.579 higher enough about after our first day could 01:38:52.579 --> 01:38:56.020 i and i still can i came home i stole his lego 01:38:56.020 --> 01:38:59.399 kit i sat my partner down straight away and i 01:38:59.399 --> 01:39:03.140 said right build this and you know but it is 01:39:03.140 --> 01:39:06.319 it's brilliant what about One more area. What 01:39:06.319 --> 01:39:08.699 about the, some of the stories, obviously not 01:39:08.699 --> 01:39:10.779 naming names, but what have you seen as far as 01:39:10.779 --> 01:39:13.159 some of the people on the incarcerated side and 01:39:13.159 --> 01:39:16.979 some of the success stories there? Oh my God, 01:39:17.020 --> 01:39:20.300 please going to have that one. Okay. Right. I 01:39:20.300 --> 01:39:21.720 have two people. I'll give you two straight off 01:39:21.720 --> 01:39:23.340 the bat and I can say their names because they're 01:39:23.340 --> 01:39:26.140 now like kind of X and I'll talk about two without 01:39:26.140 --> 01:39:30.960 names that are in. So one is out. there's a guy 01:39:30.960 --> 01:39:33.399 called michael brodle who um has just got out 01:39:33.399 --> 01:39:36.920 of belmarsh uh for something very serious um 01:39:36.920 --> 01:39:40.239 and he was not having it as such and like he 01:39:40.239 --> 01:39:42.859 was formerly in the military and um and completely 01:39:42.859 --> 01:39:44.279 owns his stuff you know and it's kind of out 01:39:44.279 --> 01:39:46.199 there like north of google and stuff where he's 01:39:46.199 --> 01:39:49.220 now kind of working towards um doing mental health 01:39:49.220 --> 01:39:50.960 stuff and helping people and writing and like 01:39:50.960 --> 01:39:55.899 okay cool um frightening fella right okay like 01:39:55.899 --> 01:40:00.289 serious frightening fella um good soul I believe, 01:40:00.470 --> 01:40:02.869 and, you know, circumstances and kind of whatever. 01:40:03.310 --> 01:40:07.109 And he was told in Belmarsh, he was like, oh, 01:40:07.149 --> 01:40:08.430 this Lego thing. And he was like, is that free 01:40:08.430 --> 01:40:10.770 food? Yes, it is. So he came, did it, blah, blah, 01:40:10.770 --> 01:40:13.710 whatever. One day, did one morning on one day, 01:40:13.789 --> 01:40:17.729 and a year later came out and found me, which 01:40:17.729 --> 01:40:19.710 is quite scary, like, in some ways, right? And 01:40:19.710 --> 01:40:21.930 emailed me recently, recently. Like, I went to 01:40:21.930 --> 01:40:25.109 a coffee with him, like, weeks ago. And he told 01:40:25.109 --> 01:40:28.460 me that... And they'd gone back to, they'd done 01:40:28.460 --> 01:40:31.899 it, and he was sat next to, and this guy's in 01:40:31.899 --> 01:40:33.079 the side, so I can't, I'm not going to name his 01:40:33.079 --> 01:40:36.460 name, but he was one of the senior ranks of the 01:40:36.460 --> 01:40:41.939 Muslim Brotherhood that run a serious, you know, 01:40:42.000 --> 01:40:44.779 amount of stuff in prisons. And again, that's, 01:40:44.779 --> 01:40:48.500 you know, there's stuff on that. Now, he was 01:40:48.500 --> 01:40:54.000 an ex -Royal Marine who was paid to kill people 01:40:54.000 --> 01:40:56.460 in the Middle East. And they were sat next to 01:40:56.460 --> 01:41:00.779 each other in Belmarsh, building, saying nice 01:41:00.779 --> 01:41:04.800 things about each other. And it impacted them 01:41:04.800 --> 01:41:06.960 so much that they went back and kind of talked 01:41:06.960 --> 01:41:09.359 to each other and started talking to themselves. 01:41:09.739 --> 01:41:15.079 And when he was kind of explaining this and stuff, 01:41:15.079 --> 01:41:16.579 and he's like, I haven't been able to stop thinking 01:41:16.579 --> 01:41:20.079 about it. And I want to help. And I don't know 01:41:20.079 --> 01:41:23.250 if I can, because... what I'm you know he's out 01:41:23.250 --> 01:41:25.069 and he's on probation and he's still tagged and 01:41:25.069 --> 01:41:26.909 he's you know he's coming off but I was like 01:41:26.909 --> 01:41:31.710 so much respect morally I put my morals to one 01:41:31.710 --> 01:41:33.250 side I put my judgment to one side I was like 01:41:33.250 --> 01:41:36.170 so much respect for kind of someone who's kind 01:41:36.170 --> 01:41:40.010 of taken that tool and kind of done it and so 01:41:40.010 --> 01:41:42.869 Loudon and you know there's the team in Loudon 01:41:42.869 --> 01:41:44.069 this is a good time to go and talk about him 01:41:45.300 --> 01:41:47.380 And there's a person called Leanne who was incredibly 01:41:47.380 --> 01:41:50.399 critical of this. And she's she's got something 01:41:50.399 --> 01:41:53.720 called a shit deflector where her strength is 01:41:53.720 --> 01:41:55.680 massively to kind of keep people safe and do 01:41:55.680 --> 01:41:58.119 it, whatever. But she's she's very critical and 01:41:58.119 --> 01:42:00.500 organized and on point. And she just was like, 01:42:00.539 --> 01:42:03.159 I'm not having this like this is whatever. And 01:42:03.159 --> 01:42:06.880 has put me through my paces. And, you know, just 01:42:06.880 --> 01:42:10.840 I think she's brilliant. And the other guy, one 01:42:10.840 --> 01:42:12.659 of the guys, they said, I want to see when I 01:42:12.659 --> 01:42:15.689 finish this course. two of the biggest gangsters 01:42:15.689 --> 01:42:17.430 in Nottingham, because it's, you know, it's the 01:42:17.430 --> 01:42:19.289 most local, it's a flagship prison for the project, 01:42:19.510 --> 01:42:24.130 sit down and build. I want to see them building 01:42:24.130 --> 01:42:26.210 their things. And those two stories for me kind 01:42:26.210 --> 01:42:30.090 of really stood out. And yeah, so that's one. 01:42:30.149 --> 01:42:33.529 So, and the other one is Ricky Killeen. So I've 01:42:33.529 --> 01:42:35.989 talked about him before. He's up in Durham and 01:42:35.989 --> 01:42:39.460 he chops someone's arm up and he's huge. Like 01:42:39.460 --> 01:42:42.579 he is scary and he runs a podcast called Behind 01:42:42.579 --> 01:42:46.539 the Bars and he just, no fucks given. He just 01:42:46.539 --> 01:42:49.720 says it as it is and he's got some very strong 01:42:49.720 --> 01:42:54.439 views and it is not for everyone. However, he's 01:42:54.439 --> 01:42:55.880 written a book called Behind the Bars Fitness 01:42:55.880 --> 01:42:59.439 and, you know, again, and wants to help, you 01:42:59.439 --> 01:43:02.619 know, and he kind of owns it. And we got in touch 01:43:02.619 --> 01:43:05.770 and stuff, we started building. uh he said the 01:43:05.770 --> 01:43:07.869 same thing about like you know if people had 01:43:07.869 --> 01:43:10.289 this if if i'd had this and we talked about our 01:43:10.289 --> 01:43:12.529 dads a lot as well it's on a podcast like somewhere 01:43:12.529 --> 01:43:17.090 like um from last year and you know i was like 01:43:17.090 --> 01:43:20.130 i'm sitting down with someone who who is such 01:43:20.130 --> 01:43:23.590 a serious criminal and we are just like i'm sitting 01:43:23.590 --> 01:43:25.310 down with you guys you know digitally like just 01:43:25.310 --> 01:43:26.850 you know i was there in person as well and like 01:43:26.850 --> 01:43:30.579 it was terrifying but but but brilliant at the 01:43:30.579 --> 01:43:32.260 same time. And we just, we're all human beings 01:43:32.260 --> 01:43:35.500 and it just, it just keeps happening. And then, 01:43:35.600 --> 01:43:37.720 you know, the kind of, an example of someone 01:43:37.720 --> 01:43:40.180 who's, you know, inside and careful not to kind 01:43:40.180 --> 01:43:44.159 of say the offence or anything, but, and this 01:43:44.159 --> 01:43:46.060 is what, this is, this is appropriate. Actually, 01:43:46.060 --> 01:43:48.359 this is what got me, like the thing that got 01:43:48.359 --> 01:43:50.760 me big time, because I struggled as a teacher 01:43:50.760 --> 01:43:55.180 in really at my core being. you know he was having 01:43:55.180 --> 01:43:57.079 repeated self -harm and you know he'd been in 01:43:57.079 --> 01:44:01.100 the system since 13 and he's now 29 and i was 01:44:01.100 --> 01:44:02.859 like i want to see the cell like i want to let's 01:44:02.859 --> 01:44:05.140 get in just get into this like i want to go see 01:44:05.140 --> 01:44:07.899 that like show me respectfully you know not because 01:44:07.899 --> 01:44:10.659 i'm glorifying it so i went to go pick him up 01:44:10.659 --> 01:44:12.859 for the session so i got kind of access to go 01:44:12.859 --> 01:44:15.119 onto the wing and stuff and kind of you know 01:44:15.119 --> 01:44:18.680 and he apparently hasn't engaged with any group 01:44:18.680 --> 01:44:21.739 work since he's been in every prison he's been 01:44:21.739 --> 01:44:24.020 in and young offenders since the 13th. Lego, 01:44:24.159 --> 01:44:27.060 you can do. Like, Lego, he was like, right, and 01:44:27.060 --> 01:44:28.960 he was pumped for it. Like, he was actually excited. 01:44:29.659 --> 01:44:34.699 And he came to the last session and I watched 01:44:34.699 --> 01:44:36.760 the other guys build him a traffic light and 01:44:36.760 --> 01:44:40.039 they built him, like, a red, because he said 01:44:40.039 --> 01:44:43.260 he was, and this, I can share this, it's not 01:44:43.260 --> 01:44:45.439 about the offence and stuff, and it's bad, it's 01:44:45.439 --> 01:44:48.640 a bad offence. And he was saying... I struggle 01:44:48.640 --> 01:44:50.840 with my nightmares and I struggle that when it's 01:44:50.840 --> 01:44:53.500 okay, I can talk. But when my nightmares come 01:44:53.500 --> 01:44:56.619 in, I don't want to dream about the sexual abuse 01:44:56.619 --> 01:45:00.939 that I had as a kid. So if there's spice or something 01:45:00.939 --> 01:45:03.279 that can make me forget, I'll take it. If the 01:45:03.279 --> 01:45:07.079 drones are coming in, I'll have it because I 01:45:07.079 --> 01:45:09.359 want to sleep. I'm tired. I just want to sleep. 01:45:10.359 --> 01:45:14.000 Hence, kill himself. And he's just done with 01:45:14.000 --> 01:45:17.630 life. And he's done, he was, he, from his builds, 01:45:17.670 --> 01:45:19.369 he kind of got to, I'm done with life because 01:45:19.369 --> 01:45:22.210 no one's listening because I can't put it into 01:45:22.210 --> 01:45:25.010 words because I'm one, I've had so many drugs 01:45:25.010 --> 01:45:27.949 in my brain and two, I'm not educated to the 01:45:27.949 --> 01:45:30.010 point where I can put the right words to how 01:45:30.010 --> 01:45:33.310 I'm feeling on top of, I'm a bloke on top of, 01:45:33.329 --> 01:45:37.569 you know, like I'm just so much. And he did a 01:45:37.569 --> 01:45:39.710 bit of a similar, it was the same lesson as such 01:45:39.710 --> 01:45:41.930 the same part of the course that, you know, different 01:45:41.930 --> 01:45:45.920 from Josh, but, um, and. And he built it and 01:45:45.920 --> 01:45:49.340 the prisoners and the prison officers each gave 01:45:49.340 --> 01:45:52.699 him a solution. There wasn't as many solutions 01:45:52.699 --> 01:45:56.279 as usual. And they built him a traffic light. 01:45:56.359 --> 01:45:58.760 I've said, and it read, you know, red, amber, 01:45:58.779 --> 01:46:01.119 green. Red is I need some help and I can't talk 01:46:01.119 --> 01:46:03.319 and please help me. And I don't know what's going 01:46:03.319 --> 01:46:06.180 on. Amber is I can tell you a sentence of what's 01:46:06.180 --> 01:46:09.199 going on and I still need some help. Green is 01:46:09.199 --> 01:46:11.119 I don't want to talk about it, but I'm good. 01:46:11.720 --> 01:46:14.189 And he built it and I was like. you're having 01:46:14.189 --> 01:46:17.189 this model you that's my present to you like 01:46:17.189 --> 01:46:21.109 um and so and i just i was in bits i was crying 01:46:21.109 --> 01:46:23.949 my eyes out like just just absolutely fell apart 01:46:23.949 --> 01:46:26.289 i was like this is you know and this is this 01:46:26.289 --> 01:46:28.090 is this sounds ridiculous but this is literally 01:46:28.090 --> 01:46:30.310 an everyday occurrence you know if i go to more 01:46:30.310 --> 01:46:32.770 prisons because it just works you know and we 01:46:32.770 --> 01:46:34.189 kind of and i said you know can i walk you back 01:46:34.189 --> 01:46:35.989 to the wing and stuff and he was like yeah yeah 01:46:35.989 --> 01:46:39.369 no worries because he's from up north um and 01:46:39.369 --> 01:46:42.010 we went back and went in and he just hugged me 01:46:42.900 --> 01:46:45.680 which is a bit scary. And I was in the cell with 01:46:45.680 --> 01:46:47.199 him and he could have taken my face off, but 01:46:47.199 --> 01:46:48.579 like, he just hugged me and just, and just said, 01:46:48.619 --> 01:46:52.199 thank you. And, um, I heard back yesterday, I 01:46:52.199 --> 01:46:54.819 got an email yesterday saying, um, he'd taken 01:46:54.819 --> 01:46:58.859 the red brick and to a listener and, you know, 01:46:58.859 --> 01:47:00.279 they got Samaritan's listeners and just put the 01:47:00.279 --> 01:47:02.319 red brick then because the whole wing are doing 01:47:02.319 --> 01:47:04.680 the legacy was play thing. They know what that 01:47:04.680 --> 01:47:08.279 means. And yeah. And I, and it was the moment 01:47:08.279 --> 01:47:12.310 I think that my ego just died in that. that's 01:47:12.310 --> 01:47:15.470 it now it's starting to go and imagine if there's 01:47:15.470 --> 01:47:17.630 one of the if this tool is used in every prison 01:47:17.630 --> 01:47:19.770 if there's a kit you can you know rent out on 01:47:19.770 --> 01:47:24.329 a wing then that's my my answer is the vision 01:47:24.329 --> 01:47:27.109 is if every wing in every correctional facility 01:47:27.109 --> 01:47:30.350 has this lego kit and it gets passive i don't 01:47:30.350 --> 01:47:32.949 need to be there because i'm a mess i'm not that 01:47:32.949 --> 01:47:35.670 great you know book documentary so you get it 01:47:35.670 --> 01:47:37.750 you can read the book if you want get the legacy 01:47:37.750 --> 01:47:40.890 play course do the do the four -day course which, 01:47:40.909 --> 01:47:42.890 and it's online, so kind of fine, or will be 01:47:42.890 --> 01:47:46.529 online, then you've got a wing of prisoners building 01:47:46.529 --> 01:47:49.390 and looking out for each other under supervision, 01:47:49.550 --> 01:47:50.970 because it's, you know, you've got to be careful. 01:47:52.449 --> 01:47:54.630 You know, I want to put the kit out in two weeks 01:47:54.630 --> 01:47:56.869 or a week or four days to deal with my problem, 01:47:57.010 --> 01:47:58.909 and I don't even want the officer to talk to 01:47:58.909 --> 01:48:00.470 me. The officer's got to watch to keep him safe, 01:48:00.590 --> 01:48:04.130 like, fine. I want John in cell 24 to talk to 01:48:04.130 --> 01:48:06.710 me. It's even the fact that they know they're 01:48:06.710 --> 01:48:08.250 going to build, and Josh, I don't know if you 01:48:08.250 --> 01:48:10.390 echo this. you know, days before the session, 01:48:10.510 --> 01:48:13.250 you know you can get it out. How much does that 01:48:13.250 --> 01:48:15.729 calm you down? Even that's a suicide prevention 01:48:15.729 --> 01:48:17.229 thing. You know, it's just like, right, okay, 01:48:17.390 --> 01:48:19.729 this is shit. I can hold on three days, then 01:48:19.729 --> 01:48:21.869 I'm building, whatever. But it's not reliant 01:48:21.869 --> 01:48:23.489 on a business or me to come in because it's already 01:48:23.489 --> 01:48:26.250 there. Like, so what's that on several levels? 01:48:26.289 --> 01:48:27.930 What's that doing for their communication skills? 01:48:28.109 --> 01:48:31.090 They're having conversations about hugely complex 01:48:31.090 --> 01:48:33.850 and heavy emotional stuff, but it's not psychology 01:48:33.850 --> 01:48:36.810 and they're giving each other solutions rather 01:48:36.810 --> 01:48:38.250 than having to wait for a psychologist to come 01:48:38.250 --> 01:48:41.310 in. because the system's broken and it's kind 01:48:41.310 --> 01:48:43.210 of overstretched. So then you go, right, what 01:48:43.210 --> 01:48:44.829 would happen if teachers had this? What would 01:48:44.829 --> 01:48:46.350 happen if nurses had this? What would happen 01:48:46.350 --> 01:48:49.409 if we could make this financially viable, that 01:48:49.409 --> 01:48:51.869 it didn't cost a fortune, that you could, I mean, 01:48:51.930 --> 01:48:55.470 it's a language, it's a new language, you know, 01:48:55.489 --> 01:48:57.270 that could kind of, they can do it themselves. 01:48:57.729 --> 01:48:59.930 And that's where I think the kind of cynic Jack 01:48:59.930 --> 01:49:02.170 Corley thing really hits me, is like, people 01:49:02.170 --> 01:49:04.470 want to help themselves out their shit, I think. 01:49:05.289 --> 01:49:07.489 you know the last if and if you if we can do 01:49:07.489 --> 01:49:09.949 that and if lego as crack as it is is the way 01:49:09.949 --> 01:49:11.850 to do it then you know it's got to be worth a 01:49:11.850 --> 01:49:14.250 shot um so yeah i don't know if that answers 01:49:14.250 --> 01:49:15.810 your question you got a little bit passionate 01:49:15.810 --> 01:49:18.689 yeah no it's brilliant and it reminds me of you 01:49:18.689 --> 01:49:20.689 know several people but especially dr either 01:49:20.689 --> 01:49:23.829 thieger who's talking about that hurt child that's 01:49:23.829 --> 01:49:26.710 inside so many of us like i i literally had a 01:49:26.710 --> 01:49:29.770 not an incident a moment in jujitsu not long 01:49:29.770 --> 01:49:32.569 ago and i was rolling with this guy he must have 01:49:32.569 --> 01:49:35.720 been god i don't know like 145 so what is that 01:49:35.720 --> 01:49:40.100 10 stone um and uh i was talking about yeah you 01:49:40.100 --> 01:49:42.239 know do this because you know us small guys and 01:49:42.239 --> 01:49:43.819 i remember him looking at me like what are you 01:49:43.819 --> 01:49:46.180 talking about i'm six foot two and 180 so i'm 01:49:46.180 --> 01:49:49.039 not a big lad but i'm a kind of you know slightly 01:49:49.039 --> 01:49:53.220 below average build i'm not small and but in 01:49:53.220 --> 01:49:56.250 my mind i'm still that little tiny kid And so 01:49:56.250 --> 01:49:58.329 we all have that. So it really does make a lot 01:49:58.329 --> 01:50:01.329 of sense that that little child inside of us, 01:50:01.390 --> 01:50:04.050 one of the things that universally around the 01:50:04.050 --> 01:50:06.689 world, at least in the more developed parts of 01:50:06.689 --> 01:50:08.770 the world that are fortunate enough to be able 01:50:08.770 --> 01:50:12.069 to purchase Lego as a toy, that we have. So you 01:50:12.069 --> 01:50:15.090 have that connection. And what do we do? Where's 01:50:15.090 --> 01:50:16.850 that connection as children? We build things 01:50:16.850 --> 01:50:19.430 together. Like we said, the little kid, someone 01:50:19.430 --> 01:50:22.100 drops a ball in the middle of preschoolers. it's 01:50:22.100 --> 01:50:23.739 going to be a party, you know what I mean? They're 01:50:23.739 --> 01:50:25.119 going to be kicking it and throwing it and chasing 01:50:25.119 --> 01:50:28.960 it around. And so that commonality is tapping 01:50:28.960 --> 01:50:32.100 back into, you know, hopefully before the pain, 01:50:32.159 --> 01:50:34.340 before the trauma, and then they're able now 01:50:34.340 --> 01:50:36.920 to then kind of walk back from there to the adult 01:50:36.920 --> 01:50:40.279 that's actually sitting around the table. Yeah. 01:50:41.100 --> 01:50:45.310 Couldn't agree more. beautiful well to round 01:50:45.310 --> 01:50:48.310 this off then for people listening let's talk 01:50:48.310 --> 01:50:50.289 about where they can find the course where they 01:50:50.289 --> 01:50:52.109 can access the tools that they would need if 01:50:52.109 --> 01:50:55.189 they wanted to bring it to you or you know ultimately 01:50:55.189 --> 01:50:57.489 the online course to their own department or 01:50:57.489 --> 01:51:02.909 prison sure um yeah it's you know we'll always 01:51:02.909 --> 01:51:06.210 be you know as honest and you know spot on that 01:51:06.210 --> 01:51:11.829 stuff and we're releasing it um in april 26 however 01:51:12.579 --> 01:51:17.239 Um, if people want to kind of have it and do 01:51:17.239 --> 01:51:18.899 with it and come with us on the journey now, 01:51:19.000 --> 01:51:21.000 cause it's ready and it's operating cause it's, 01:51:21.000 --> 01:51:22.319 you know, and it's checked and it's done, it's 01:51:22.319 --> 01:51:25.180 researched and that's great. Um, and we're offering, 01:51:25.239 --> 01:51:27.920 you know, a kind of very reasonable discount 01:51:27.920 --> 01:51:31.300 because I need more Josh's, you know, because 01:51:31.300 --> 01:51:32.840 it's, I think we said, you know, I'm not marking 01:51:32.840 --> 01:51:35.819 my own homework. Um, have a look at the website, 01:51:35.960 --> 01:51:37.979 website and email. Even website is, you know, 01:51:38.000 --> 01:51:42.770 lspcr .uk. Um, or just email me directly. Just 01:51:42.770 --> 01:51:47.289 al at lspcr .uk. Let's have a conversation. I 01:51:47.289 --> 01:51:49.710 think everywhere is different and we only have 01:51:49.710 --> 01:51:53.689 so much capacity. But I love the idea of people 01:51:53.689 --> 01:51:56.090 coming on board now. I think it's like you hear 01:51:56.090 --> 01:51:57.670 it and you're like, this is a no -brainer. Clearly 01:51:57.670 --> 01:52:00.109 this is going to work. And it will work. Great. 01:52:01.189 --> 01:52:04.779 But people who are divisionary leaders. because 01:52:04.779 --> 01:52:06.420 that's what it takes you know josh can like it 01:52:06.420 --> 01:52:07.939 all day long so if the governor says no it's 01:52:07.939 --> 01:52:10.119 not happening like you know it's if people want 01:52:10.119 --> 01:52:11.819 to get on board like let's have a conversation 01:52:11.819 --> 01:52:14.140 you know and then i think it's going to come 01:52:14.140 --> 01:52:18.000 out wide you know worldwide on april 26th um 01:52:18.000 --> 01:52:22.500 so yeah brilliant what about you if you want 01:52:22.500 --> 01:52:24.340 to reach out to you or find you on social media 01:52:24.340 --> 01:52:30.600 where are the best places i love linkedin I love 01:52:30.600 --> 01:52:32.260 LinkedIn, and that's all I've got. I haven't 01:52:32.260 --> 01:52:34.300 got anything else. I haven't got Instagram or 01:52:34.300 --> 01:52:36.640 Facebook or something. I cannot remember what 01:52:36.640 --> 01:52:39.199 that link is, James, if you can put that in. 01:52:39.319 --> 01:52:42.159 But do, you know, and kind of I will answer what 01:52:42.159 --> 01:52:46.680 I can when I can. And, yeah, I think it's a great 01:52:46.680 --> 01:52:48.739 place to kind of be connected with authentic 01:52:48.739 --> 01:52:53.500 individuals. But, you know, we'll always have 01:52:53.500 --> 01:52:55.239 the conversation. Even if it's just five minutes, 01:52:55.420 --> 01:53:00.340 we'll always find time. You know, so, yeah. Beautiful. 01:53:00.420 --> 01:53:02.619 And Josh, if anyone wants to reach out to you, 01:53:02.659 --> 01:53:04.140 I know it's harder when you're in law enforcement 01:53:04.140 --> 01:53:05.460 and corrections, you're not going to have your 01:53:05.460 --> 01:53:08.100 face plastered everywhere. Are there any avenues 01:53:08.100 --> 01:53:12.619 to find you? There's not. However, I mean, if 01:53:12.619 --> 01:53:14.520 anyone gets in touch with Al, he can put you 01:53:14.520 --> 01:53:17.140 in touch with me if it's burning or detrimental 01:53:17.140 --> 01:53:20.739 or important. And then we'll go through that. 01:53:20.760 --> 01:53:22.720 If you're all right with that, Al. 100%. He's 01:53:22.720 --> 01:53:28.239 great. He's great at speaking. I think you can't 01:53:28.239 --> 01:53:31.500 help but be captivated by his enthusiasm and 01:53:31.500 --> 01:53:33.899 positivity. His jokes are terrible, but yeah. 01:53:36.319 --> 01:53:39.699 So yeah, good stuff. Brilliant. Well, I want 01:53:39.699 --> 01:53:43.760 to say thank you so much. It's been such an unusual, 01:53:43.979 --> 01:53:46.859 different way of looking at this problem. And 01:53:46.859 --> 01:53:49.140 even, you know, as you said, you navigated out 01:53:49.140 --> 01:53:51.100 that very dark place yourself. And I think most 01:53:51.100 --> 01:53:53.020 people have been there in some way, shape or 01:53:53.020 --> 01:53:56.680 form. This is what we were talking earlier about 01:53:56.680 --> 01:54:00.359 immersion, about 10 different solutions being 01:54:00.359 --> 01:54:02.119 given to you and then you get to choose your 01:54:02.119 --> 01:54:05.279 one. I know when I've suggested things to people 01:54:05.279 --> 01:54:07.739 and you just see the doors behind their eyes 01:54:07.739 --> 01:54:10.180 just close. Okay, well, they're not taking that 01:54:10.180 --> 01:54:12.920 suggestion. So being able to immerse someone 01:54:12.920 --> 01:54:15.640 and say, all right, there's 15 doors in front 01:54:15.640 --> 01:54:17.699 of you. Pick the one that you want to go down. 01:54:18.180 --> 01:54:20.739 And so some people, they're going to listen to 01:54:20.739 --> 01:54:23.640 this and go, that makes a lot of sense. I mean, 01:54:23.659 --> 01:54:26.460 my son, my son in his bedroom, he's about to 01:54:26.460 --> 01:54:28.439 go to college in a couple of months. He's got 01:54:28.439 --> 01:54:31.100 his bed, his little office table in the corner, 01:54:31.119 --> 01:54:33.720 and the rest is two massive tables covered in 01:54:33.720 --> 01:54:36.500 Lego, an entire Lego city in his bedroom. That's 01:54:36.500 --> 01:54:38.380 his jam. You know, that's what he connects with. 01:54:38.460 --> 01:54:41.560 So. So, yeah. So it's so great to have all these 01:54:41.560 --> 01:54:43.880 solutions from psychedelics to equine therapy 01:54:43.880 --> 01:54:47.380 to Lego to all these different areas so that. 01:54:48.060 --> 01:54:50.340 The right people can go, this is the right one 01:54:50.340 --> 01:54:53.579 for me. So I want to thank you both so much for 01:54:53.579 --> 01:54:55.920 being so generous with your time, coming on the 01:54:55.920 --> 01:54:58.819 show, being vulnerable and bringing this amazing 01:54:58.819 --> 01:55:03.180 solution to us. Pleasure. Yeah. No, thanks to 01:55:03.180 --> 01:55:04.399 you too, Danny. Awesome.