WEBVTT

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Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast. My

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name is James Gearing and this is episode 162

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and Happy New Year to you all. This week I bring

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to you... An episode that I want to do for a

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long time now, which is with my old truck crew

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when I was out west in California, who I consider

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the most cohesive crew I worked on. We worked

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together for several years on the same truck

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every single shift. These same men years, years

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later came over and stood next to me when I married

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Becky. So we've been through some horrendous

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calls. We've been through some incredible, you

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know, fires, you know, the highs and the lows,

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as it were. And so I decided to sit us all down.

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We got some beers, put up the microphones and

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basically just let it run for what ended up being

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a four hour conversation. This is obviously the

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four of us discussing things. So these are opinions.

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But I wanted to give an insight into. a cohesive

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crew and what that looks like and what that sounds

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like. So Terry, our truck captain, who is, uh,

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uh, I guess Scottish American, you could say,

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uh, Joe is Mexican American or engineer. Um,

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Dickie, my partner is white, South African, and

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obviously I'm British. So you have this international

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crew, you have this bar set very high. Um, and

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There's this banter. You're going to hear this

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back and forth. And the way that we talk about

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the firefighters that we admire and the way that

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we're going to discuss about people that come

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into the profession who aren't there to do good.

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They're out there to just collect a paycheck.

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So all these are discussed. But there's such

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a facade on the fire service in one respect where

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we're almost expected to be like choir boys.

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And that's complete. basically if you're going

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to ask men and women to go out there and do the

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things that we do the reality is we decompress

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by this this this humor and you know we have

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low tolerance for people that aren't in this

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profession to to go out there and hold themselves

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to the highest level so you're going to hear

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a lot of that um you know if people are offended

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then that wasn't the intention but uh this is

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a raw honest conversation so with that being

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said i introduce to you myself dickie Joe and

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Terry, enjoy. What do you want to talk about?

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All right. Do the intro. Yeah, so this is the

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professional intro. So we are sitting here in...

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How do you describe this facility, Terry? This

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is not the Flying W. This is not the Flying W.

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It's the Flying Gma's house. And we are in the

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city of Orange. Orange. Okay. So normally I'll

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ask some intro questions to my guests and ask

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them about their background. But I think that

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what we need to do is explain to everyone listening.

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Each other's background. So, Terry, I want you

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to start. Tell me about Richard Sprout who's

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sitting here, his background, where he came from.

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He came from his mother way back when in not

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so jolly old South Africa. And he wandered from

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South Africa to California. In a line cloth?

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Yes. He had a turban on at the time. I believe

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it was a Yabangi turban. A Yabangi turban? Yes.

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It was a Yabangi tribe turban? Yes. And he wanted

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to apply for the fire department, and he had

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understood that in California we hire a lot of

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minorities, so he figured since he was African...

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he'd stand a very good shot at it, which it worked

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in his best interest. Did you actually put African

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-American bits? Is everyone listening? You have

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a light skin complexion, but you are half African

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and half American. So did you put that down in

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your app? I'm the son of an Irishman and an Italian

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girl. And I was born and raised in South Africa,

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but my mom is from America and my father was

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from Zambia. So that's quite a mix. Yeah. Your

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mother's from America. America. Chicago. That's

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in Illinois, James. It's a state. Oh, really?

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Go on. And then moved out here when I was 19.

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And that was it. You didn't answer the question.

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Did you check I am an African American on your

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application? I did check African American, yes.

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Because you are. Everyone listening. I am, on

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paper. He is an African -American. He's more

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African -American than anybody else I know. He

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is. That's the truth. The others are all counterfeiters.

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All right, so you get to flip the script. Tell

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me about Captain Terry Wilson of Anaheim Truck

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One, where he was born. This is Diggy Sprout

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speaking. I finished, well, on my last... I think

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I just finished probation. I got assigned to

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Terry on truck one. And you're from West Anaheim,

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yeah? Grew up in the city. I'm a Westie. Terry's

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a Westie. He grew up in the city of Anaheim.

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Worked in the city of Anaheim. And as a young

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firefighter, I was given some advice. And that

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was to work with the old firefighters and learn

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from them everything you could because... They

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had 20 -something years worth of teaching that

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they could do. And that's what I chose to do.

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Just 20? I was going to say, and the rest. She

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was born out of the Westie tree back in 1926.

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Anyhow, they come with a lot of experience. And

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in this kind of job that we do, you can't teach

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a lot of the stuff in a classroom. It has to

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be real -life experience. And the saddest thing

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in our profession is that the old guys retire

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and they take that with them. And I just asked

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Terry to share it with me before he left. And

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so I bid truck one in order to learn from Terry.

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And I always look back at those years we had

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as the best years of my career. Not because of

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you two. That was it. I came over to truck one

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because I wanted to learn and I wanted to be

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busy and get in the thick of it. and I was told

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that Terry was the guy to learn from. That was

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it. Cool. All right, so ahead of me is engineer,

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now captain, Joseph Aldacoa. He was born in a

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stable in Bethlehem, then moved to Mexico. No,

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he was in that movie. Which one? Free Willy?

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The cartoon. The only cost, maybe they didn't

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get paid. Everybody's been in a movie there,

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Jungle Book. Oh, shoot. You talking about Shrek?

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I could be. There's been a couple of them you

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qualify for. Oh, my God. I'm surprised Terry

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hasn't been around since the movies were real.

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They played the piano in the front? Yeah. So

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anyway, tell us about where you were born and

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your journey in the fire service. All right.

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I was born here in... Southern California, Los

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Angeles, not Mexico, not Bethlehem, and not some

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far, far away. Well, it's LA. It's pretty far.

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It is far. Especially if you don't live in LA.

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You're a local, eh? I'm a local. East LA, I think.

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So I was a late bloomer on this rig because I

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was a firefighter, been a firefighter in Anaheim

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since 2001, and came over to the truck with these

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clowns in 2007. My journey in the fire service

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was going through an academy in 98, getting hired

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in Anaheim in 2001, and getting promoted and

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having the blessing of working with these three

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fine gentlemen and forming the Anaheim Fire Department's

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version of the United Nations. The Brit, the

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South African, the Mexican, and the American.

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What country are pink people from? with the pink

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panther i don't know i'm trying to think of different

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uh i can't think of anything brilliant all right

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well everyone knows about me hopefully after

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150 whatever if you want to hear about you as

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far as my basic shit so let's start at the beginning

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um terry yes put you on the spot give you the

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mic a little bit one of the things that i wanted

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to highlight in this conversation when i stop

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my freaking tears coming from my eyes from laughing

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so hard thinking about joe doing free willy please

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don't let it go free anyway um is i've heard

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some fire departments are literally being sued

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by people getting their feelings hurt so i want

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to illustrate with this episode how a cohesive

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crew which i think we were and i'll tell everyone

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now my 14 years this is my favorite you know

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period in the fire service how you can train

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you know see some horrible stuff cry you know

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go through troubles at home but the way that

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we deal one the way we deal is through humor

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so I want to illustrate that and show that firefighters

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are not this callous group of people but this

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is how we are and if I'm a lack of a better word

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if I'm a piece of shit you're gonna pull me to

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the side and you're gonna tell me hey I'm on

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probation whatever play the game because you're

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expecting me when the shit hits the fan to actually

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be able to perform and excuse me in the how you

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are in the station reflects how you are on a

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call so Seeing as you had 30 -plus years in the

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fire service, what was it like when you were

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new to the fire service? I'm going to talk about

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the negative things right now. We're going to

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talk about a whole bunch of positive. What are

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some of the negative things that you've seen

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in the last 30 years as far as that element?

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Well, I consider myself probably have grown up

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in the fire service at probably the pinnacle

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time. We went from riding around on the tailboard

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in absolutely terrible equipment, junk. We had

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equipment that would be strapped to the side

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of the engine with somebody's used belt or a

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piece of bailing wire. And that's exactly what...

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I mean, Anaheim, when I came to Anaheim, it was

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probably always near the top of pay, but we had

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the terrible equipment. And to give you an idea,

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when I hired on, the fire chief prior to the

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fire chief that was there when I was there, but

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the guy before him frowned on the guys using

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their Scott Air Packs because they would have

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to pay somebody to fill the bottles up. So when

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I hired on, we never used a Scott Air Pack for

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trash fires or car fires. You just dove in and

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sucked it up and, you know, you did what you

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had to do. Didn't you guys keep it like in a

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compartment somewhere further back on the rig?

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Yeah, they were in boxes. You'd have to get out

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and take it out of the box. You had to take it

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out of the box and put it on. It was never sitting

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in a seat or anything like that. It was always

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very inconvenient to put on. And if you put it

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on, it was like you were going to get. kind of

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ostracized a little bit for being uh a pussy

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um that that's just you know kind of the way

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it was and so you know we went through an academy

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just like everybody else does but you know at

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the end of the day you're working with people

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and most of the people that i worked for or worked

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with uh they came from the military so you you

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you know guys that have had you know, a distinctive

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style of being raised a certain way and being

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around guys most of their lives. And, you know,

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it's kind of like sports. I mean, for me, it

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was very similar to being, you know, playing

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football, you know, being part of a team. It

00:13:38.139 --> 00:13:41.440
was very similar in that way. I found it attractive

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in that way that, you know, being around people

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that you respected was always enjoyable for me.

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But, you know, when I say I think it was the

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best times, I believe it was the best times.

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You know, I got to experience riding a tailboard

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before they even strapped you in. You know, it

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was a time when the fire service was changing

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and it was getting better equipment, safer equipment.

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You know, safety standards were coming up. But

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it was still being around a group of guys that,

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that I respected in so many ways. Were these

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veterans coming from the Vietnam War, a lot of

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them? Some of them were Vietnam War. Some of

00:14:28.580 --> 00:14:31.659
them were just military, not being any particular

00:14:31.659 --> 00:14:39.419
war. But, you know, guys that had had, they came

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from a different, you know, a lot of guys who

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came from construction background, guys that

00:14:44.559 --> 00:14:46.519
had a different path before. They just weren't

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hired as firefighters. These guys came with experience

00:14:49.419 --> 00:14:53.279
from another. portion of life and so they brought

00:14:53.279 --> 00:14:57.179
something to the table um and you know there

00:14:57.179 --> 00:14:59.120
was there was always something there you could

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learn from just about anybody that you worked

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with and uh that's you know we were always pretty

00:15:06.299 --> 00:15:12.000
busy so had a lot of fires um you know it was

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a great it was a phenomenal time i mean i i to

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this day i think i i experienced the you know

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the boon of the fire service. Best times of all.

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I'll go to my grave thinking I worked during

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the best times of the fire service. So how many

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of those guys back then were successful in their

00:15:34.470 --> 00:15:36.710
lawsuits for getting their feelings hurt? You

00:15:36.710 --> 00:15:42.190
know, if I was to tell you what it was like back

00:15:42.190 --> 00:15:45.629
then, I mean, if a guy today, if you were to

00:15:45.629 --> 00:15:49.230
take a guy today and you put him... where I was

00:15:49.230 --> 00:15:57.889
being called the things that I got called, they'd

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probably go home crying to their mom. Would you

00:15:59.950 --> 00:16:02.149
like to elaborate on some of those names? Oh,

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I mean, you just... Terry, you can say these

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things because it's a private podcast and you

00:16:11.990 --> 00:16:14.730
won't be disciplined. Yeah, and there's an explicit

00:16:14.730 --> 00:16:17.350
reason why I'm upset by this. You can say like

00:16:17.350 --> 00:16:19.909
poo -poo head or whatever you want. I mean, the

00:16:19.909 --> 00:16:25.490
things that would get said or insinuated or the

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things that guys were able to get away with at

00:16:29.549 --> 00:16:33.830
work at that time were pretty phenomenal. It

00:16:33.830 --> 00:16:38.889
was amazing. Where was it coming from? Because

00:16:38.889 --> 00:16:41.409
that's, I think, a big misunderstanding, misconception

00:16:41.409 --> 00:16:44.789
about our profession is you hear like, oh, so

00:16:44.789 --> 00:16:48.169
-and -so called me. For example, my dental care

00:16:48.169 --> 00:16:50.070
was called into question several times. It's

00:16:50.070 --> 00:16:53.009
only been fucking 10 minutes. Yes. But I know

00:16:53.009 --> 00:16:54.789
that it's not that Dickie is truly concerned

00:16:54.789 --> 00:16:58.149
about cavities in my mouth. It's the yellow color

00:16:58.149 --> 00:17:00.970
that's more disturbing than anything. Recently,

00:17:01.070 --> 00:17:05.349
where I live, my neighbor across the street,

00:17:08.159 --> 00:17:10.819
their son got hired by LA County Fire Department.

00:17:10.980 --> 00:17:14.180
And I was remembering hearing my daughter mentioning

00:17:14.180 --> 00:17:15.859
something when she came in the house. She had

00:17:15.859 --> 00:17:18.240
been outside talking with him. And he was kind

00:17:18.240 --> 00:17:22.079
of, let's just say offended that the guys at

00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:26.720
work were picking on him. And I immediately kind

00:17:26.720 --> 00:17:29.380
of said, I want to go outside and talk with him

00:17:29.380 --> 00:17:31.079
because I think he's missing the boat here on

00:17:31.079 --> 00:17:36.069
it. And I would just... My wife cautioned me

00:17:36.069 --> 00:17:37.990
to go out and having any conversation with him

00:17:37.990 --> 00:17:40.630
because it wouldn't probably be productive. But

00:17:40.630 --> 00:17:44.990
I always used to say, if they're not picking

00:17:44.990 --> 00:17:48.210
on you, they don't like you. And so if they're

00:17:48.210 --> 00:17:51.130
picking on you, it's kind of a good thing. And

00:17:51.130 --> 00:17:56.130
it's the time to be very, very concerned is when

00:17:56.130 --> 00:18:00.069
they stop picking on you. And that goes for anybody

00:18:00.069 --> 00:18:04.700
at any rank. at all in the firehouse all the

00:18:04.700 --> 00:18:07.180
way up to the fire chief so if they're not picking

00:18:07.180 --> 00:18:12.039
on you it's a it's a means for caution and you'd

00:18:12.039 --> 00:18:15.579
be very concerned about that because uh you know

00:18:15.579 --> 00:18:17.819
everybody gets their we used to say everybody

00:18:17.819 --> 00:18:20.440
has their moment in the barrel yeah and you hear

00:18:20.440 --> 00:18:22.380
and that's the thing i've obviously been lucky

00:18:22.380 --> 00:18:24.180
enough to talk to people from fire departments

00:18:24.180 --> 00:18:27.140
you know all over the world now and that's the

00:18:27.140 --> 00:18:30.980
same thing so it's universal Yep, everybody has

00:18:30.980 --> 00:18:32.660
their moment in the barrel, and sometimes you

00:18:32.660 --> 00:18:34.460
get stuck in it for a longer period of time than

00:18:34.460 --> 00:18:38.900
others. But generally, at some point, everybody's

00:18:38.900 --> 00:18:44.259
going to pick on one person. But for the most

00:18:44.259 --> 00:18:46.160
part, it's always done in good nature. There

00:18:46.160 --> 00:18:51.039
are times that it's a learning purpose, and then

00:18:51.039 --> 00:18:54.799
there's other times it's just good fun. I would

00:18:54.799 --> 00:18:57.119
say that most of the time, in our case, it was

00:18:57.119 --> 00:19:01.920
pretty much always good fun. You don't want to

00:19:01.920 --> 00:19:08.559
be in that position of being told you're deficient

00:19:08.559 --> 00:19:11.619
in an area in front of about 13 other people

00:19:11.619 --> 00:19:13.859
in the same room. It's kind of embarrassing.

00:19:14.039 --> 00:19:18.819
So if it's to the point where you're being talked

00:19:18.819 --> 00:19:23.440
about in that way, you're probably concerned

00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:26.940
about something as well. But Terry, sorry. If

00:19:26.940 --> 00:19:29.900
something was going on, it would be up to the

00:19:29.900 --> 00:19:31.720
other people on the crew to pull that person

00:19:31.720 --> 00:19:34.039
aside and say, hey, this is what's going on.

00:19:34.099 --> 00:19:36.420
This is the expectation. This is how you can

00:19:36.420 --> 00:19:38.240
change it and we'll get along a whole lot better.

00:19:38.460 --> 00:19:44.099
Yeah, yeah. I mean, one thing, you know, there's

00:19:44.099 --> 00:19:46.460
all kinds of isms that you learn along the way,

00:19:46.519 --> 00:19:50.099
but one of them was, you know, it takes a lifetime

00:19:50.099 --> 00:19:53.440
to build a good reputation and, you know, a short

00:19:53.440 --> 00:19:58.029
period of time to... tear it all down. So, you

00:19:58.029 --> 00:20:01.269
know, it's a, you kind of need to tread carefully

00:20:01.269 --> 00:20:03.730
sometimes when you're, when you're not certain

00:20:03.730 --> 00:20:05.390
you're building your reputation in a positive

00:20:05.390 --> 00:20:10.829
fashion. Um, a lot of things can be, uh, not

00:20:10.829 --> 00:20:12.829
forgot about for a while. You might, might say,

00:20:12.930 --> 00:20:16.309
you know, and, um, I mean, I went through 32

00:20:16.309 --> 00:20:19.490
years of, uh, of a career never, and I had lots

00:20:19.490 --> 00:20:21.789
of things, you know, people that didn't like

00:20:21.789 --> 00:20:24.190
me, I'll cut, you know, I had a battalion chief

00:20:24.190 --> 00:20:26.839
that, had it out for me. And every time he turned

00:20:26.839 --> 00:20:30.240
around, he would, he, you know, tried to get

00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:32.779
me in trouble. And I never once threatened to

00:20:32.779 --> 00:20:35.660
take him to court over anything. It was just,

00:20:35.680 --> 00:20:41.440
he didn't like me and that's okay. Um, you know,

00:20:41.480 --> 00:20:45.579
I, I, I kind of, I feel sorry for the guy today

00:20:45.579 --> 00:20:47.799
to this day. I feel sorry for him because he's,

00:20:47.799 --> 00:20:49.839
he's just, he was that unhappy of a person that

00:20:49.839 --> 00:20:52.460
he, you know, the only bright spot in his day

00:20:52.460 --> 00:20:55.200
was to be able to pick on me. And my guys. And

00:20:55.200 --> 00:20:58.319
you know what? If your life is so miserable that

00:20:58.319 --> 00:21:01.579
I'm the only bright spot in your day to pick

00:21:01.579 --> 00:21:03.079
on that makes you feel better about yourself,

00:21:03.319 --> 00:21:09.059
then I guess so be it. But, you know, I can't

00:21:09.059 --> 00:21:11.539
imagine having the time in the firehouse to worry

00:21:11.539 --> 00:21:14.240
about lawsuits and that sort of thing, to be

00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:18.720
honest with you. You've got to have way too much

00:21:18.720 --> 00:21:22.650
time on your hands for that sort of thing. And

00:21:22.650 --> 00:21:24.410
you're missing the best part of the job if you're

00:21:24.410 --> 00:21:30.109
doing that. Well, I can say, as someone who worked

00:21:30.109 --> 00:21:32.329
for four departments, and I'm about to be a volunteer

00:21:32.329 --> 00:21:35.130
now for a fifth, which is another experience,

00:21:35.329 --> 00:21:38.730
but that's four probations. And people are like,

00:21:38.750 --> 00:21:41.349
oh, doesn't it get old being on probation? And

00:21:41.349 --> 00:21:44.329
I always tell people no, because the first department

00:21:44.329 --> 00:21:45.950
I had no experience. Second one I only had a

00:21:45.950 --> 00:21:48.089
year when I came to you guys. The third one,

00:21:48.130 --> 00:21:50.630
it was, you know, what, five years? And then

00:21:50.630 --> 00:21:53.250
the fourth was 10. But each time, I tell them,

00:21:53.250 --> 00:21:56.009
these people I work with, no matter how competent

00:21:56.009 --> 00:21:59.309
I think I am or I'm not, A, it's a new system

00:21:59.309 --> 00:22:01.910
that I'm working under, and B, even if I'm a

00:22:01.910 --> 00:22:04.369
damn rock star, even if God made the perfect

00:22:04.369 --> 00:22:07.029
firefighter, they don't know who you are. So

00:22:07.029 --> 00:22:09.970
that probation and that rookie period is where

00:22:09.970 --> 00:22:13.450
you prove to them that I'm worthy of being on

00:22:13.450 --> 00:22:16.069
your team. And during that time, it's bumpy sometimes.

00:22:16.230 --> 00:22:18.329
I mean, I've had it where I'm a, you know 10

00:22:18.329 --> 00:22:21.529
12 14 year firefighter getting a two -year guy

00:22:21.529 --> 00:22:24.450
giving me shit who I know damn well is a turd

00:22:24.450 --> 00:22:27.230
but I'm playing the game you know and you just

00:22:27.230 --> 00:22:31.109
keep your mouth shut but get all butthurt because

00:22:31.109 --> 00:22:34.630
you're being ridden because you're let's take

00:22:34.630 --> 00:22:37.690
an example hypothetically not even off probation

00:22:37.690 --> 00:22:39.089
you've decided that now you don't need to be

00:22:39.089 --> 00:22:41.029
in uniform anymore or you're just going to take

00:22:41.029 --> 00:22:43.230
naps whenever naps are great but you know there

00:22:43.230 --> 00:22:45.710
is that game to play and it's because you're

00:22:45.710 --> 00:22:48.160
proving to them that when You're on the fire

00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:50.420
ground that you're not going to turn around and

00:22:50.420 --> 00:22:53.480
your backup guy is gone or your hook guy on the

00:22:53.480 --> 00:22:55.539
roof is gone, that you're going to be there when

00:22:55.539 --> 00:22:58.819
it hits the fan. That's where this whole tradition

00:22:58.819 --> 00:23:01.079
comes from is showing them that you're going

00:23:01.079 --> 00:23:05.180
to be there for them. Well, you know, when I

00:23:05.180 --> 00:23:07.839
mentioned it, part of the draw for me for the

00:23:07.839 --> 00:23:14.539
fire service was that I enjoyed sports in school.

00:23:14.839 --> 00:23:17.809
I enjoyed being around guys. that had a common,

00:23:17.890 --> 00:23:20.049
you know, you have a common feeling, common thread

00:23:20.049 --> 00:23:23.670
about, you know, what it is you enjoy in sports.

00:23:25.950 --> 00:23:32.289
And part of that is that the idea behind it is

00:23:32.289 --> 00:23:34.170
everybody's gone through the same thing before

00:23:34.170 --> 00:23:36.309
you. It would be like if you went into Hell Week,

00:23:36.369 --> 00:23:38.829
which is double sessions in football, and you

00:23:38.829 --> 00:23:43.309
decided that somebody's being mean, making you

00:23:43.309 --> 00:23:46.279
go to that second session every evening. And,

00:23:46.420 --> 00:23:50.920
you know, Joe has been doing it for all these

00:23:50.920 --> 00:23:54.039
years. And then Terry comes along and says, I

00:23:54.039 --> 00:23:56.019
don't want to go to the second session. I think

00:23:56.019 --> 00:23:59.059
it's being cruel and unusual punishment to me.

00:23:59.099 --> 00:24:01.059
Therefore, I shouldn't have to go. Well, Joe's

00:24:01.059 --> 00:24:08.380
never going to ever respect me for that. Go ahead,

00:24:08.559 --> 00:24:10.220
Dickie. Go ahead. I think Terry is talking about

00:24:10.220 --> 00:24:12.799
Joe and going back for a second helping. Second

00:24:12.799 --> 00:24:17.079
session. I didn't mean to give Joe the microphone

00:24:17.079 --> 00:24:19.960
to defend himself. Yeah, yeah. I will in time.

00:24:20.180 --> 00:24:24.039
But the point being. I'm on fire tonight. The

00:24:24.039 --> 00:24:28.079
point being, how could Joe ever respect me if

00:24:28.079 --> 00:24:32.420
I decided that that second training session that

00:24:32.420 --> 00:24:34.359
he's been doing for the last three or four years

00:24:34.359 --> 00:24:37.140
in high school, and I come along and decide that

00:24:37.140 --> 00:24:39.039
I'm too good to have to go to that second session.

00:24:39.319 --> 00:24:43.160
How does that make Joe feel about me? It makes

00:24:43.160 --> 00:24:46.329
him feel like. I'm some guy that doesn't think

00:24:46.329 --> 00:24:49.309
I need to be at the same place that everybody

00:24:49.309 --> 00:24:51.789
else was at one point in their career, which

00:24:51.789 --> 00:24:56.130
that's what makes us all on the same team. When

00:24:56.130 --> 00:25:00.769
you decide that you're a team of one, that's

00:25:00.769 --> 00:25:07.910
a lonely place to be. And I can't imagine ever

00:25:07.910 --> 00:25:10.269
being on or wanting to be part of a team of one.

00:25:12.839 --> 00:25:16.960
I think when you're on a team of one, you have

00:25:16.960 --> 00:25:22.180
forgotten or maybe you didn't ever know why you

00:25:22.180 --> 00:25:24.259
even entered the fire service in the first place.

00:25:25.660 --> 00:25:29.440
You've lost sight of your reason for being there.

00:25:30.339 --> 00:25:33.839
And you really, really need to reexamine the

00:25:33.839 --> 00:25:35.799
trajectory of your life and where you think you

00:25:35.799 --> 00:25:40.339
want to go. Because you're part of the fire service,

00:25:40.400 --> 00:25:45.640
first of all. You're there to serve. You're not

00:25:45.640 --> 00:25:48.200
there to serve yourself. You're there to serve

00:25:48.200 --> 00:25:52.319
the people that you work out in the field for,

00:25:52.420 --> 00:25:56.259
that you sacrifice your time out there for. You're

00:25:56.259 --> 00:25:58.700
there to serve your brothers and your sisters

00:25:58.700 --> 00:26:01.779
that you're working side by side with. And at

00:26:01.779 --> 00:26:04.180
the end of the night, if you want to do something

00:26:04.180 --> 00:26:06.680
nice for yourself, yeah, you could serve yourself

00:26:06.680 --> 00:26:08.519
as well at that point in time. But there's a

00:26:08.519 --> 00:26:12.789
lot of people that come. well before you on that

00:26:12.789 --> 00:26:15.990
list. And so if you've gotten to the point where

00:26:15.990 --> 00:26:17.869
you're a team of one, you probably should be

00:26:17.869 --> 00:26:21.289
looking for another line of work. Yeah, and I

00:26:21.289 --> 00:26:24.589
agree 100%. I mean, we've both been shocked,

00:26:24.690 --> 00:26:26.150
all of us in this room have been shocked, some

00:26:26.150 --> 00:26:31.339
of the stories we've heard about that. You hear

00:26:31.339 --> 00:26:34.420
stuff in the news about hazing and, oh, they

00:26:34.420 --> 00:26:38.000
sprayed this man with a water hose in Navy SEAL

00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:41.160
school. Yeah, that's what they do to make him

00:26:41.160 --> 00:26:43.059
resilient to the stress they're going to do.

00:26:43.180 --> 00:26:46.740
And I've had people on this podcast that we've

00:26:46.740 --> 00:26:51.779
discussed the smorgasbord of skills and stressful

00:26:51.779 --> 00:26:54.039
environments that we might be exposed to, whether

00:26:54.039 --> 00:26:56.460
it's a mass shooting, whether it's some of the

00:26:56.460 --> 00:26:59.599
calls we've seen a lot of, but a plane crash.

00:27:00.349 --> 00:27:02.710
Kids stuck in a sewer. I mean, the list goes

00:27:02.710 --> 00:27:04.509
on and on and on of what we might respond to.

00:27:05.650 --> 00:27:08.869
And if you get your feelings hurt because someone

00:27:08.869 --> 00:27:11.490
said that you've got eight months on, you should

00:27:11.490 --> 00:27:15.170
probably be the one mopping the floor, then clearly

00:27:15.170 --> 00:27:16.930
you're not there for the team, like you said.

00:27:17.029 --> 00:27:22.210
And that selfish attitude, that's how we weed

00:27:22.210 --> 00:27:25.000
people out. you know you you have to prove to

00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:26.799
us and i've been that guy i've been that new

00:27:26.799 --> 00:27:29.440
guy in numerous times where i've got to prove

00:27:29.440 --> 00:27:33.380
to you senior officer that i'm worth being on

00:27:33.380 --> 00:27:36.059
this team because we there's no no question to

00:27:36.059 --> 00:27:38.500
me we're we're equivalent to special ops and

00:27:38.500 --> 00:27:40.420
i've had navy seals and rangers and delta force

00:27:40.420 --> 00:27:44.799
guys say i see fire service like us because you

00:27:44.799 --> 00:27:47.319
have you're responsible for so much so therefore

00:27:47.319 --> 00:27:49.339
what do the navy seals do do they hold people's

00:27:49.339 --> 00:27:51.400
hands and say i hope i don't upset you today

00:27:51.400 --> 00:27:54.130
no You get washed out. And that's what made me

00:27:54.130 --> 00:27:56.849
so proud with Anaheim's probation when I went

00:27:56.849 --> 00:27:59.509
through it is that we got rid of 25 % every single

00:27:59.509 --> 00:28:02.470
class. Not to be dicks, but that was the washout

00:28:02.470 --> 00:28:04.930
rate of the people that weren't there for us,

00:28:04.970 --> 00:28:07.170
for the team. And then when it was left over

00:28:07.170 --> 00:28:09.569
and you graduate the academy and you finish probation,

00:28:09.910 --> 00:28:12.670
you have a sense of pride and accomplishment.

00:28:12.869 --> 00:28:16.789
Like, you're it. You were the best of the crop

00:28:16.789 --> 00:28:20.069
or the litter and you made it. And then you finish

00:28:20.069 --> 00:28:23.089
probation and then from there on, you know you

00:28:23.089 --> 00:28:25.109
have a career to build your reputation after

00:28:25.109 --> 00:28:30.069
that but it doesn't take very long to ruin that

00:28:30.069 --> 00:28:33.329
and that's always been the beauty of the fire

00:28:33.329 --> 00:28:35.390
service is you answer to the brothers you answer

00:28:35.390 --> 00:28:39.170
to the family and you know guys think that you're

00:28:39.170 --> 00:28:41.910
worthwhile and you do your fair share of the

00:28:41.910 --> 00:28:44.309
work and you're ambitious and you want to learn

00:28:44.309 --> 00:28:47.089
then they help you and they guide you and they

00:28:47.089 --> 00:28:49.720
show you down the right path but when People

00:28:49.720 --> 00:28:52.420
make a decision that I'm not doing this so I

00:28:52.420 --> 00:28:55.640
want to do something different. That's when the

00:28:55.640 --> 00:28:58.359
problems start. The whole thing with the fire

00:28:58.359 --> 00:29:02.440
service too is this whole sense of tradition.

00:29:03.559 --> 00:29:07.059
A bunch of us, Terry being one that goes back

00:29:07.059 --> 00:29:08.759
here, they go into New York and you see that

00:29:08.759 --> 00:29:12.119
brotherhood. You have firefighters from all over

00:29:12.119 --> 00:29:13.940
the country, all over the world that come together

00:29:13.940 --> 00:29:18.319
and they welcome us with open arms. To see that

00:29:18.319 --> 00:29:21.400
when we come, when I got hired in the fire service,

00:29:21.640 --> 00:29:24.740
it is a brotherhood. We treat each other like

00:29:24.740 --> 00:29:31.119
brothers. Brothers will bully the younger brother

00:29:31.119 --> 00:29:34.640
around and boss him around or haze him a little

00:29:34.640 --> 00:29:39.180
bit. But it's all out of love and respect, like

00:29:39.180 --> 00:29:41.640
Terry said. And that's the thing. No one else

00:29:41.640 --> 00:29:43.539
is allowed to fuck with that guy. That's your

00:29:43.539 --> 00:29:46.140
younger brother. He's your guy. And only you

00:29:46.140 --> 00:29:48.880
guys mess with him because he's yours. And that's

00:29:48.880 --> 00:29:50.400
it. And if anyone else does, they've got to answer

00:29:50.400 --> 00:29:52.539
to you. You take care of him. And none of it's

00:29:52.539 --> 00:29:54.640
really done in malice. It's all done in good

00:29:54.640 --> 00:29:58.980
fun and in good spirit. And if someone is out

00:29:58.980 --> 00:30:01.660
of hand, just like a bigger brother should, we

00:30:01.660 --> 00:30:05.450
pull them aside and we correct that action. trying

00:30:05.450 --> 00:30:07.329
to turn it into a positive. That's where some

00:30:07.329 --> 00:30:09.529
of the feelings seem to get hurt. And that's

00:30:09.529 --> 00:30:12.750
where a lot of them don't understand or a lot

00:30:12.750 --> 00:30:14.710
of individuals don't understand that it's like

00:30:14.710 --> 00:30:17.609
we're not doing this to single you out, to pick

00:30:17.609 --> 00:30:20.049
on you, to make you shine in a negative light.

00:30:20.329 --> 00:30:22.289
It's so you correct the action so the behavior

00:30:22.289 --> 00:30:24.130
changes. That's the only way it's going to happen.

00:30:24.769 --> 00:30:28.529
So now with this hurt feelings and now it goes

00:30:28.529 --> 00:30:33.109
to where it gets involved in lawsuits or people

00:30:33.109 --> 00:30:37.140
could... lose their position or lose their career.

00:30:37.779 --> 00:30:40.920
It's a little bit much from what I've only been

00:30:40.920 --> 00:30:42.880
on for, well, I shouldn't say only, but 18 years

00:30:42.880 --> 00:30:46.519
now. I've seen a lot change, and a lot of it

00:30:46.519 --> 00:30:52.539
is with this administrative, you know, where

00:30:52.539 --> 00:30:56.359
I remember talking to guys years ago that worked

00:30:56.359 --> 00:30:58.599
for other departments where you had a problem

00:30:58.599 --> 00:31:01.119
with somebody, let's go talk about it out back

00:31:01.119 --> 00:31:03.759
in the station, you know, and just like brothers

00:31:03.759 --> 00:31:06.809
do. Let's go handle it out back. No hurt feelings.

00:31:07.130 --> 00:31:10.309
And now that's way out the window. Even say anything

00:31:10.309 --> 00:31:12.150
close to that, you're going to be, you know,

00:31:12.170 --> 00:31:14.430
some type of administrative investigation. So

00:31:14.430 --> 00:31:18.369
it's a lot has changed. Well, I would tell you

00:31:18.369 --> 00:31:24.150
that when I came on, the, if you had an issue,

00:31:24.269 --> 00:31:26.930
like if you, you know, you were struggling with

00:31:26.930 --> 00:31:31.259
your other firefighter. You're a four -man firefighter.

00:31:31.279 --> 00:31:34.599
You were the three guy. I actually had that situation

00:31:34.599 --> 00:31:36.539
where I was struggling with a guy after I'd been

00:31:36.539 --> 00:31:41.720
on a year of the job. And I went to my boss,

00:31:41.740 --> 00:31:44.079
and my boss says, did you talk to him about it?

00:31:45.740 --> 00:31:49.220
And I said, well, yeah, I really hadn't talked

00:31:49.220 --> 00:31:50.960
to him about it. And he goes, you need to go

00:31:50.960 --> 00:31:53.799
talk to him about it first. Because there was

00:31:53.799 --> 00:31:56.019
an unwritten rule in the fire service that says

00:31:56.019 --> 00:31:59.309
you handle it at the lowest possible level. That

00:31:59.309 --> 00:32:01.589
whatever the lowest possible level is, you don't

00:32:01.589 --> 00:32:03.309
get staff involved in something that they don't

00:32:03.309 --> 00:32:06.869
need to be involved in. And, you know, so I went

00:32:06.869 --> 00:32:08.329
and talked to the guy about it. It didn't change

00:32:08.329 --> 00:32:10.190
anything. So I just eventually just transferred

00:32:10.190 --> 00:32:13.230
out of that house. I just stabbed him in the

00:32:13.230 --> 00:32:18.529
bunk room. But, I mean, you know, that was just

00:32:18.529 --> 00:32:21.630
one way of, you know, getting away from somebody

00:32:21.630 --> 00:32:24.170
that was just their personality and yours were

00:32:24.170 --> 00:32:26.329
never going to be a good mix. But when you talk

00:32:26.329 --> 00:32:31.680
about hazing. You know, you get a probationary,

00:32:31.700 --> 00:32:33.740
you get a guy that just comes here from that

00:32:33.740 --> 00:32:41.119
nobody knows. You have to. If you're not going

00:32:41.119 --> 00:32:43.900
to sit there and observe the guy 24 hours a day

00:32:43.900 --> 00:32:46.220
and watch every little thing he does, you're

00:32:46.220 --> 00:32:51.339
going to miss things. And you're going to miss

00:32:51.339 --> 00:32:53.180
something and you're going to end up keeping

00:32:53.180 --> 00:32:57.240
somebody who really shouldn't be here. Now, I

00:32:57.240 --> 00:33:01.059
would say that. I was careful when I teased.

00:33:01.259 --> 00:33:05.579
I would never tease a guy that I was questioning

00:33:05.579 --> 00:33:07.579
whether he was going to make it or not. Is that

00:33:07.579 --> 00:33:09.779
why you never teased Dickie? I never teased Dickie.

00:33:11.200 --> 00:33:12.900
That's why I made it through the academy because

00:33:12.900 --> 00:33:14.740
I was partnered with James and they never bothered

00:33:14.740 --> 00:33:17.940
watching me. Well, you already had the handicap

00:33:17.940 --> 00:33:19.339
stickers. They knew you were going to make it

00:33:19.339 --> 00:33:23.339
through. The EDA. Yeah. Point being, you have

00:33:23.339 --> 00:33:29.529
to at times. have to know whether this person

00:33:29.529 --> 00:33:32.750
is going to be a person that's going to be trustworthy,

00:33:33.089 --> 00:33:36.670
that you are willing to take chances with on

00:33:36.670 --> 00:33:39.849
a job, because in the fire service, you're often

00:33:39.849 --> 00:33:41.930
sent to go do something that could be very important,

00:33:41.990 --> 00:33:44.049
that could have implications towards the safety

00:33:44.049 --> 00:33:46.670
of the entire operation. And therefore, if you

00:33:46.670 --> 00:33:50.509
send this guy who's maybe not trustworthy, do

00:33:50.509 --> 00:33:52.750
you really trust that he got... the assignment

00:33:52.750 --> 00:33:56.170
completely done. And so, you know, there are

00:33:56.170 --> 00:33:59.210
things that you pick up on people when you do

00:33:59.210 --> 00:34:03.250
watch somebody getting, you know, let's just

00:34:03.250 --> 00:34:05.609
say teased a little bit about something. You

00:34:05.609 --> 00:34:10.650
might get a reaction of, you know, right back

00:34:10.650 --> 00:34:13.409
at you to where the person has no, you know,

00:34:13.409 --> 00:34:16.690
no sense of humor. He's immediately taking offense

00:34:16.690 --> 00:34:19.469
to it. Those are kind of warning signs that,

00:34:19.510 --> 00:34:21.849
you know. This person may not fit in the group

00:34:21.849 --> 00:34:26.090
because he doesn't really understand what it's

00:34:26.090 --> 00:34:29.530
about. And that's the thing. It's not hazing.

00:34:29.690 --> 00:34:31.510
I think hazing is when you're trying to be mean

00:34:31.510 --> 00:34:34.550
to someone just because they knew. It was more,

00:34:34.750 --> 00:34:38.230
I mean, we got on. It was pressure, like a stress

00:34:38.230 --> 00:34:40.250
inoculation. You see what the guy or the girl

00:34:40.250 --> 00:34:42.769
is made of. How do you handle stress? How is

00:34:42.769 --> 00:34:45.409
your integrity? Can you think and be calm under

00:34:45.409 --> 00:34:48.250
pressure? Or are you going to flash and scream

00:34:48.250 --> 00:34:51.960
and go running? these things are all pretty much

00:34:51.960 --> 00:34:54.780
i guess a social test but the end of the day

00:34:54.780 --> 00:34:57.900
is we're going to be in situations and places

00:34:57.900 --> 00:35:00.539
where our lives are going to depend on one another

00:35:00.539 --> 00:35:04.099
and in a smoked out room with flames running

00:35:04.099 --> 00:35:07.420
across the ceiling i can't tell if you're black

00:35:07.420 --> 00:35:10.179
or white or green or you're a girl or a boy or

00:35:10.179 --> 00:35:13.159
gay or straight it doesn't matter what matters

00:35:13.159 --> 00:35:15.679
to me is knowing that you're there and that you

00:35:15.679 --> 00:35:18.969
have my back and that you know what to do But

00:35:18.969 --> 00:35:21.289
as soon as people start questioning, do you know

00:35:21.289 --> 00:35:25.389
what to do? Or how committed are you? I think

00:35:25.389 --> 00:35:27.989
that's when it starts scaring people. That's

00:35:27.989 --> 00:35:31.190
what I call the only prejudice that belongs on

00:35:31.190 --> 00:35:33.329
the fire service. You've got two types of firefighters.

00:35:33.590 --> 00:35:35.369
Those that can and those that can't. That's it.

00:35:35.429 --> 00:35:37.349
That's where it ends. And like you were saying,

00:35:37.429 --> 00:35:40.389
when we're all bunkered up, you don't know. I

00:35:40.389 --> 00:35:42.630
mean, no one knew that Dickie was African. No

00:35:42.630 --> 00:35:44.820
one knew that I was. english but they knew that

00:35:44.820 --> 00:35:46.820
we were both horrible firefighters and that we

00:35:46.820 --> 00:35:50.460
shouldn't be on the fire but it's but it's true

00:35:50.460 --> 00:35:52.900
you know it's that's what we care about and then

00:35:52.900 --> 00:35:56.000
speaking of the the flashing for a second that's

00:35:56.000 --> 00:35:58.059
also not pushing buttons when you know that guy's

00:35:58.059 --> 00:36:00.800
going through a divorce or just lost their child

00:36:00.800 --> 00:36:02.500
or whatever you know that's that's when we understand

00:36:02.500 --> 00:36:05.239
a pullback but i don't think it's that unfair

00:36:05.239 --> 00:36:09.940
to say hey you've just been here a few weeks

00:36:09.940 --> 00:36:13.429
you should probably do the you know be the first

00:36:13.429 --> 00:36:16.829
at the sink or you know first to finish or understand

00:36:16.829 --> 00:36:19.269
that you need to know what's in every compartment

00:36:19.269 --> 00:36:22.369
on that truck it's not stump to chump we all

00:36:22.369 --> 00:36:25.210
went through and if i screw up that then i'm

00:36:25.210 --> 00:36:27.190
i'm following i just tell people i love the truck

00:36:27.190 --> 00:36:30.050
the compartment checks because it reminds me

00:36:30.050 --> 00:36:31.889
where everything is you know the same as the

00:36:31.889 --> 00:36:35.110
the inventory days you know so and let me show

00:36:35.110 --> 00:36:38.389
you what i know let me impress you if you ask

00:36:38.389 --> 00:36:40.980
me I'm going to show you and I'm going to impress

00:36:40.980 --> 00:36:43.699
you. And you're going to go, damn, this kid's

00:36:43.699 --> 00:36:45.559
got his shit together. You're right the first

00:36:45.559 --> 00:36:51.500
time. Impress me. Exactly. So, Joe, what about

00:36:51.500 --> 00:36:53.059
your perspective? Because we haven't had much

00:36:53.059 --> 00:37:00.579
from you so far. He's busy eating. Well, I just

00:37:00.579 --> 00:37:02.219
sum it up very simply. It's the fact that you're

00:37:02.219 --> 00:37:05.039
depending on these people that we work alongside,

00:37:05.300 --> 00:37:08.579
our brothers, we spend a third of our life with.

00:37:11.619 --> 00:37:15.619
to save each other, to stand by each other. Through

00:37:15.619 --> 00:37:19.199
our personal matters, through our professional

00:37:19.199 --> 00:37:24.019
issues, we depend on one another. If I ever have

00:37:24.019 --> 00:37:25.920
an issue, whether it be personal or professional,

00:37:26.300 --> 00:37:28.559
I know I can call one of the brothers that I

00:37:28.559 --> 00:37:31.000
work with, and they're going to be there for

00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:34.579
me. That's one of the things that I love about

00:37:34.579 --> 00:37:37.840
our career, about our profession, is that sense

00:37:37.840 --> 00:37:41.349
of brotherhood. It's a very unique profession

00:37:41.349 --> 00:37:46.510
where we don't have a 9 to 5 and go home on the

00:37:46.510 --> 00:37:49.670
weekends, go home at night. We're around our

00:37:49.670 --> 00:37:55.690
brothers, our sisters, 24 hours, however 10 days

00:37:55.690 --> 00:37:57.090
a month. One third of your life, yeah. Yeah,

00:37:57.090 --> 00:38:00.829
one third of our life. And we bond together and

00:38:00.829 --> 00:38:03.869
these relationships that we carry on go beyond

00:38:03.869 --> 00:38:07.579
our career into our retirement. I mean, Terry's

00:38:07.579 --> 00:38:09.619
been retired like 30 years now and we still,

00:38:09.619 --> 00:38:11.860
you know, come to the convalescent home and visit,

00:38:12.059 --> 00:38:16.239
you know, so it goes a long way. So I just think

00:38:16.239 --> 00:38:18.320
it's very, I think it's very important that these,

00:38:18.360 --> 00:38:21.579
these relationships that we develop. I think

00:38:21.579 --> 00:38:23.820
that's age discrimination. That's a protected

00:38:23.820 --> 00:38:26.139
class. No, because I'm not discriminating. Once

00:38:26.139 --> 00:38:34.159
you get past a certain age, it's okay. You can't

00:38:34.159 --> 00:38:38.829
hear what you're saying. But that's one of the

00:38:38.829 --> 00:38:40.929
things I think is very unique about our profession

00:38:40.929 --> 00:38:43.849
is the bond that we develop with one another.

00:38:44.449 --> 00:38:48.730
And, you know, you've been gone X amount of years.

00:38:49.150 --> 00:38:51.150
You know that if any of us are going through

00:38:51.150 --> 00:38:53.949
tough times, you reach out and you don't have

00:38:53.949 --> 00:38:56.389
to. And I don't think that's going to be found

00:38:56.389 --> 00:39:00.309
in very many professions where this relationship,

00:39:00.469 --> 00:39:03.489
this bond, you know, we all shared a bond for

00:39:03.489 --> 00:39:06.010
many years working together. And it's still...

00:39:06.199 --> 00:39:08.179
still strong you know i just want to interrupt

00:39:08.179 --> 00:39:10.420
for a second so for everyone to put it in context

00:39:10.420 --> 00:39:12.719
i was only anaheim for three and a half years

00:39:12.719 --> 00:39:14.280
we were on the truck for what two years i think

00:39:14.280 --> 00:39:17.960
it was yeah 10 years later well i mean i guess

00:39:17.960 --> 00:39:20.960
seven years at a time the people that i invited

00:39:20.960 --> 00:39:23.219
to my wedding to be my entire wedding party apart

00:39:23.219 --> 00:39:25.420
from my brother was the people sitting around

00:39:25.420 --> 00:39:27.699
here and then jericho as well and my friend rob

00:39:27.699 --> 00:39:30.500
but um that's how strong the bond is and that's

00:39:30.500 --> 00:39:34.909
why i wanted us to to have this is to people

00:39:34.909 --> 00:39:36.849
that understand that when you create that crew

00:39:36.849 --> 00:39:39.090
and that tribe, as we talk about a lot on this,

00:39:39.230 --> 00:39:42.230
you can't break those bonds. We're going to be

00:39:42.230 --> 00:39:44.750
like this until we die. Hopefully Dickie will

00:39:44.750 --> 00:39:53.449
go first. James, in all honesty, that's the biggest

00:39:53.449 --> 00:40:01.289
problem that we have is that it's HR could never

00:40:01.289 --> 00:40:07.539
understand. what we do so they're they're constantly

00:40:07.539 --> 00:40:09.800
looking at us trying to figure out how we can

00:40:09.800 --> 00:40:12.260
make the fire department a safer place for the

00:40:12.260 --> 00:40:15.099
city so we can avoid lawsuits so we can do all

00:40:15.099 --> 00:40:18.559
these things right they're trying to psychoanalyze

00:40:18.559 --> 00:40:22.079
these fire guys and they'll never get it because

00:40:22.079 --> 00:40:25.860
until you do it and actually live it it's foreign

00:40:25.860 --> 00:40:31.360
to you and it's foreign to so many people That's

00:40:31.360 --> 00:40:33.539
why there's so much kind of petty jealousy out

00:40:33.539 --> 00:40:37.900
there at times with other labor groups. They

00:40:37.900 --> 00:40:42.619
just don't. They see the guys sitting back catching

00:40:42.619 --> 00:40:45.599
a movie a certain time of day, but they're not

00:40:45.599 --> 00:40:48.699
there for all the other parts of the day that

00:40:48.699 --> 00:40:52.659
we're all sacrificing side by side with. That's

00:40:52.659 --> 00:40:55.780
a big part about it. We all put our effort in

00:40:55.780 --> 00:40:58.000
at the same time. When one works, we all work.

00:41:00.119 --> 00:41:02.239
Repeat that for me again. I was just going to

00:41:02.239 --> 00:41:04.059
say, I love hearing that. It's been a while.

00:41:04.260 --> 00:41:07.679
Well, usually it's like, you know, Joe and James

00:41:07.679 --> 00:41:09.820
and Terry will be downstairs working on something.

00:41:10.139 --> 00:41:14.960
Oh, Christ, okay. Terry, I beg to differ. Joe

00:41:14.960 --> 00:41:17.079
is at the fridge. Dickie would work in times

00:41:17.079 --> 00:41:20.400
of conflict. No, no. Stress working. No, no.

00:41:21.880 --> 00:41:28.789
Yeah, well, labor groups struggle with us. Because

00:41:28.789 --> 00:41:32.510
it's not a conventional job. It's not something

00:41:32.510 --> 00:41:40.329
that you can... I'll just end it with this. When

00:41:40.329 --> 00:41:42.170
you think about the worst thing you've ever seen,

00:41:42.349 --> 00:41:46.409
those guys from the other departments or whatever

00:41:46.409 --> 00:41:49.469
labor group or HR, whomever it might be, they're

00:41:49.469 --> 00:41:55.449
never there for that. Ever. They don't have those

00:41:55.449 --> 00:41:58.980
moments. you know inscribed in their brain for

00:41:58.980 --> 00:42:01.340
the rest of their lives they have no idea what

00:42:01.340 --> 00:42:03.679
it's about but the guys that you work side by

00:42:03.679 --> 00:42:06.559
side with have those same moments that you have

00:42:06.559 --> 00:42:10.980
so it's it's um you could say it's like being

00:42:10.980 --> 00:42:14.940
at war you could say it's like being um at whatever

00:42:14.940 --> 00:42:18.019
experience it was it but it's it bonds you together

00:42:18.019 --> 00:42:19.980
and welds you together for the rest of your life

00:42:19.980 --> 00:42:23.119
well you used this to hit on something that you

00:42:23.119 --> 00:42:25.960
said you said one works we all work And I want

00:42:25.960 --> 00:42:27.659
to talk about your leadership style in a second

00:42:27.659 --> 00:42:30.300
and how you created us. I mean, you know, it

00:42:30.300 --> 00:42:33.219
starts from the top. But what I've observed is

00:42:33.219 --> 00:42:36.360
I've worked in other places and the LT always

00:42:36.360 --> 00:42:38.800
seems to find paperwork to be doing with all

00:42:38.800 --> 00:42:42.820
the hard work being done. And we were never washing

00:42:42.820 --> 00:42:47.539
a bay or, you know, checking out the rig or training

00:42:47.539 --> 00:42:50.750
without you. you know about fighting you to try

00:42:50.750 --> 00:42:52.690
and be there ahead of you because you were always

00:42:52.690 --> 00:42:55.650
yeah that was always the gig being a dick trying

00:42:55.650 --> 00:42:59.809
to show us up and Fridays we would do the lawns

00:42:59.809 --> 00:43:02.989
and the gardens and mow around the station and

00:43:02.989 --> 00:43:07.440
if Terry beat us to the lawnmower or the edger

00:43:07.440 --> 00:43:10.659
or whatever it was. It was a collective, fuck,

00:43:10.880 --> 00:43:13.360
we blew it. And that was the thing. On a fire

00:43:13.360 --> 00:43:16.000
on any other call, Terry had a tool in his hand.

00:43:16.179 --> 00:43:18.159
That was it. You weren't going to get to do anything

00:43:18.159 --> 00:43:19.320
and you were going to have to stand there and

00:43:19.320 --> 00:43:22.340
look like an idiot. And James was pretty good

00:43:22.340 --> 00:43:26.940
at that. But I frowned upon it. So it was always

00:43:26.940 --> 00:43:30.070
like... It was a given that if there was work

00:43:30.070 --> 00:43:32.110
to be done, it was going to be a fight to do

00:43:32.110 --> 00:43:34.090
the work. Just the same as there's a fight to

00:43:34.090 --> 00:43:38.170
do the dishes. Then you build a reputation of,

00:43:38.230 --> 00:43:40.570
hey, this guy handles his shit and he gets it

00:43:40.570 --> 00:43:44.230
done. And those are the people that you want

00:43:44.230 --> 00:43:48.170
on your crew. I knew if we went past the reflective

00:43:48.170 --> 00:43:51.500
surface that you'd be... Here we go. You'd be

00:43:51.500 --> 00:43:54.340
taken. Like, who's that beautiful person in the

00:43:54.340 --> 00:43:56.559
mirror? I could take the tool from you and get

00:43:56.559 --> 00:43:58.719
the work done. That was always my moment of opportunity.

00:43:58.719 --> 00:44:00.739
Just like if I wanted to get a tool from James,

00:44:00.800 --> 00:44:04.920
I'd show up with a toothbrush. You know, James,

00:44:04.960 --> 00:44:07.760
I got to say, though, I agree with a lot of what

00:44:07.760 --> 00:44:09.519
Terry said, but I got to say there's a lot that's

00:44:09.519 --> 00:44:16.179
changed since we've gotten hired. When I first

00:44:16.179 --> 00:44:19.260
got hired, there was a lot more camaraderie.

00:44:19.719 --> 00:44:23.320
amongst all of us there was sitting down chit

00:44:23.320 --> 00:44:27.460
chat after uh after dinner after lunch sit around

00:44:27.460 --> 00:44:32.099
talk about whatever talk about issues talk about

00:44:32.099 --> 00:44:35.920
who's doing what at their house and getting to

00:44:35.920 --> 00:44:39.900
that uh no that's the point i'm making is that

00:44:39.900 --> 00:44:43.969
i knew we used to be able to play team sports

00:44:43.969 --> 00:44:46.809
we used to be able to um there was a lot more

00:44:46.809 --> 00:44:49.250
bonding well you get hurt doing team sports so

00:44:49.250 --> 00:44:51.150
that's dangerous i have to edit this piece out

00:44:51.150 --> 00:44:53.190
you can't play sports in the fire station but

00:44:53.190 --> 00:44:55.269
go on sorry sir i just checked with my lawyer

00:44:55.269 --> 00:44:59.610
go on oh did you okay so nowadays vicky just

00:44:59.610 --> 00:45:02.349
pulled out his cell phone and that's the biggest

00:45:02.349 --> 00:45:05.289
issue so everybody i pulled out the cell phone

00:45:05.289 --> 00:45:07.349
to show you i wasn't going to go and update my

00:45:07.349 --> 00:45:09.469
blog thank you okay show you a picture of yourself

00:45:09.469 --> 00:45:12.829
yes thank you katie lang some selfies katie lang

00:45:13.230 --> 00:45:16.690
So people are pulling out their cell phones,

00:45:16.789 --> 00:45:20.369
so there's no more conversation around the table.

00:45:20.610 --> 00:45:24.170
There's no more communication. You talk to somebody,

00:45:24.409 --> 00:45:26.590
and you're lucky to hold their attention for

00:45:26.590 --> 00:45:29.170
a couple of minutes before they're on their phone

00:45:29.170 --> 00:45:31.769
looking at something, email, a text, or whatever

00:45:31.769 --> 00:45:34.570
it may be. So we lost a lot of that communication

00:45:34.570 --> 00:45:40.710
with social media and people just being busy.

00:45:42.780 --> 00:45:45.800
We no longer sit around and play cards. We don't

00:45:45.800 --> 00:45:48.920
sit around and there's no communication and bonding.

00:45:49.199 --> 00:45:52.480
You throw in a TV in the kitchen or the dining

00:45:52.480 --> 00:45:53.840
room where people are eating and then people

00:45:53.840 --> 00:45:56.400
watch TV instead of talk. And then you throw

00:45:56.400 --> 00:45:58.280
in the separate dorm rooms where each one has

00:45:58.280 --> 00:46:00.440
their own room. Which is a good thing for the

00:46:00.440 --> 00:46:02.179
sleep. You've got to be disciplined as a crew

00:46:02.179 --> 00:46:05.820
not to hide out there. Yeah, I recall having

00:46:05.820 --> 00:46:08.340
a cell phone because when I would leave it laying

00:46:08.340 --> 00:46:11.360
around, there would always be a screensaver on

00:46:11.360 --> 00:46:14.639
there that I don't know where it came from. But

00:46:14.639 --> 00:46:17.519
I always had to hunt the guys down and say, you

00:46:17.519 --> 00:46:20.440
bastards, get that. Was it David Hasselhoff by

00:46:20.440 --> 00:46:24.280
chance? It could have been a Hoff or it could

00:46:24.280 --> 00:46:26.699
have been Freddie. Have you ever seen a cell

00:46:26.699 --> 00:46:29.119
phone like that? Since then. I've never seen

00:46:29.119 --> 00:46:31.699
a rotary cell phone before. Oh, stop it. Stop

00:46:31.699 --> 00:46:36.139
it. A lot of people don't know how to use a passcode

00:46:36.139 --> 00:46:39.039
on your phone. Point being this. We had cell

00:46:39.039 --> 00:46:43.400
phones 10 years ago. We didn't hover around the

00:46:43.400 --> 00:46:50.900
cell phone. Point being this. You're hiring people

00:46:50.900 --> 00:46:55.739
today, and you may get this with every hire you

00:46:55.739 --> 00:47:02.730
get, They're all a product of that phone. Okay.

00:47:03.769 --> 00:47:06.090
We had them then, but we weren't products of

00:47:06.090 --> 00:47:10.710
the phone. Yeah. They do a lot more. The phone

00:47:10.710 --> 00:47:17.510
came only as a, you know, we enjoyed each other's

00:47:17.510 --> 00:47:20.269
company. We found value in each other more than

00:47:20.269 --> 00:47:23.849
we did our phone. So therefore, we didn't feel

00:47:23.849 --> 00:47:26.630
the need to. Boost our egos through the phone.

00:47:26.769 --> 00:47:30.590
Yeah, which goes back to the banter and the hurt

00:47:30.590 --> 00:47:33.489
feeling of being forced to talk to one another.

00:47:33.730 --> 00:47:36.949
Obviously, that's how we decompress. Clearly,

00:47:37.369 --> 00:47:39.449
you heard the racist slur from Dickie about my

00:47:39.449 --> 00:47:43.969
people's dental habits. That's not racism. That's

00:47:43.969 --> 00:47:47.690
a fact. Look at his teeth, how nice they are.

00:47:47.809 --> 00:47:50.190
Exactly. I was told once that I had the best

00:47:50.190 --> 00:47:53.280
teeth. Of an English person, the dentist that

00:47:53.280 --> 00:47:54.960
I've seen. By my dentist that I've heard you

00:47:54.960 --> 00:47:58.500
to. No, it was in Florida. Oh, well, I've seen

00:47:58.500 --> 00:48:03.000
the people in Florida. Sorry, Florida. But that's

00:48:03.000 --> 00:48:05.119
what living in America does for you. It makes

00:48:05.119 --> 00:48:09.139
you better. So you're welcome. Why are your eyes

00:48:09.139 --> 00:48:14.400
red? I'm tired. I'm guessing maybe we should

00:48:14.400 --> 00:48:16.920
outlaw phones in the fire station. I would love

00:48:16.920 --> 00:48:19.920
that. Or just promote conversation when you're

00:48:19.920 --> 00:48:21.539
not using your phone. Because phones are a great

00:48:21.539 --> 00:48:24.400
tool of using properly. Yeah. See, I was a big

00:48:24.400 --> 00:48:26.960
fan of, you might recall this, but I was a big

00:48:26.960 --> 00:48:31.500
fan about cooking in the station. I don't recall

00:48:31.500 --> 00:48:35.099
that at all. Yeah. Putting slabs of meat on the

00:48:35.099 --> 00:48:38.800
tiller truck and driving it. Yeah. That was the

00:48:38.800 --> 00:48:41.619
greatest thing. 40 pound boxes. For the restaurant

00:48:41.619 --> 00:48:43.519
depot. And then trying to sell it to the other

00:48:43.519 --> 00:48:48.500
shifts. Yeah. I'll sell you a box of onions.

00:48:48.699 --> 00:48:50.760
I was just waiting for the structure fire. We

00:48:50.760 --> 00:48:52.480
had to take all the groceries off before we could

00:48:52.480 --> 00:48:56.360
fly the ladder. 30 pounds of bacon. We ate good.

00:48:56.880 --> 00:48:59.599
And we would have ice cream socials after dinner.

00:48:59.639 --> 00:49:03.639
And the whole station, 14 guys, would be in the

00:49:03.639 --> 00:49:06.039
kitchen. It would be a party. Yeah. It was a

00:49:06.039 --> 00:49:08.760
party. I mean, it doesn't always have to be that

00:49:08.760 --> 00:49:15.539
way. My position always was if you love the guys

00:49:15.539 --> 00:49:19.239
you work for, you would work hard preparing a

00:49:19.239 --> 00:49:22.159
meal that they're going to enjoy and that's going

00:49:22.159 --> 00:49:25.800
to be good and that, you know, if it takes you

00:49:25.800 --> 00:49:27.360
two hours to do it, it takes you two hours to

00:49:27.360 --> 00:49:31.900
do it. But, you know, you always knew if you're

00:49:31.900 --> 00:49:35.380
cared for because the guys. Go to the effort

00:49:35.380 --> 00:49:38.699
of planning the day. If they have to miss a workout

00:49:38.699 --> 00:49:42.260
to plan their meal and get it on board. If it

00:49:42.260 --> 00:49:43.639
doesn't get on time, there's nothing you can

00:49:43.639 --> 00:49:46.440
do about that. But at least if the guys went

00:49:46.440 --> 00:49:48.079
out to the market early in the morning, they

00:49:48.079 --> 00:49:51.480
got their shopping done, they at least had their

00:49:51.480 --> 00:49:54.940
hearts in the right place. Then you knew they

00:49:54.940 --> 00:49:57.119
cared about you. If they didn't and they just

00:49:57.119 --> 00:49:59.679
left you hanging in the wind, then kind of told

00:49:59.679 --> 00:50:02.760
you where you stood. I think the dishes are the

00:50:02.760 --> 00:50:06.039
same as loading hoes. It's that feeling of you

00:50:06.039 --> 00:50:08.940
just did something together and it doesn't matter

00:50:08.940 --> 00:50:12.079
if you're washing up and wrestling at the sink

00:50:12.079 --> 00:50:15.300
or if you're throwing five -inch back up. Yeah,

00:50:15.300 --> 00:50:17.280
look at the end of the fire. I mean, everybody's

00:50:17.280 --> 00:50:19.019
beat up, everybody's tired, everybody's wore

00:50:19.019 --> 00:50:22.840
out, but you'd get eight or nine guys circle

00:50:22.840 --> 00:50:25.059
around one rig putting everything back on that

00:50:25.059 --> 00:50:27.539
rig. So that they could go back in service. And

00:50:27.539 --> 00:50:28.880
then they would do it for the next one and the

00:50:28.880 --> 00:50:31.159
next one. And sometimes, you know, at the end

00:50:31.159 --> 00:50:32.480
of the day, there's nobody there to help the

00:50:32.480 --> 00:50:35.480
last unit. But, you know, you still, you do for

00:50:35.480 --> 00:50:38.159
others before you do for yourself. And then the

00:50:38.159 --> 00:50:40.159
truckers would go back to the station and tear

00:50:40.159 --> 00:50:42.119
the saws apart and clean it while the pumpies

00:50:42.119 --> 00:50:44.219
would go to sleep after we loaded all their hose.

00:50:44.739 --> 00:50:48.119
That's a fact. You're such a bitter lady. Or

00:50:48.119 --> 00:50:50.860
they would go beep, beep, beep. But that was

00:50:50.860 --> 00:50:52.719
the thing. It was my saw. I wanted to clean it.

00:50:53.000 --> 00:50:56.019
Because I dirtied it. I got to play. Hopefully

00:50:56.019 --> 00:50:58.719
you got to play. Oh, we always got to play with

00:50:58.719 --> 00:51:01.039
you. Even when we cut the fruit for the next

00:51:01.039 --> 00:51:03.780
house, we cut something. We'll see you on fire.

00:51:04.960 --> 00:51:08.260
Yeah. I got a question for you. So I'm just going

00:51:08.260 --> 00:51:11.199
to throw a tangent here. When I went from the

00:51:11.199 --> 00:51:15.239
West Coast back to the East Coast, they not and

00:51:15.239 --> 00:51:16.719
for everyone, don't get but hurt. If you're in

00:51:16.719 --> 00:51:19.280
an agency where you are on the East Coast, where

00:51:19.280 --> 00:51:21.820
you cut roofs, this is not for you. But several

00:51:21.820 --> 00:51:24.800
that I work for. were terrified of getting on

00:51:24.800 --> 00:51:26.579
the roof. Oh, if you put people on the roof,

00:51:26.659 --> 00:51:28.960
it's going to collapse, but they'll put three

00:51:28.960 --> 00:51:30.440
companies under and not even think about it.

00:51:30.940 --> 00:51:33.639
So what is your view over the 30 years of the

00:51:33.639 --> 00:51:36.440
effectiveness of vertical ventilation? Well,

00:51:36.579 --> 00:51:40.320
vertical ventilation is a necessity. I mean,

00:51:40.340 --> 00:51:44.199
you can't really perform any type of meaningful

00:51:44.199 --> 00:51:48.800
rescue, and you can't give any type of meaningful

00:51:48.800 --> 00:51:51.179
relief to the guys that are going in below you.

00:51:53.420 --> 00:51:57.119
You know, that's the bottom line. It's part of

00:51:57.119 --> 00:51:59.619
the job. If you're on a truck company, you better

00:51:59.619 --> 00:52:04.340
get comfortable with being on the roof. And that's,

00:52:04.340 --> 00:52:08.480
you know, that's the burden to that is you better

00:52:08.480 --> 00:52:11.619
be knowing your area and knowing what your roofs

00:52:11.619 --> 00:52:15.679
look like in your area and being comfortable

00:52:15.679 --> 00:52:20.530
with being on the roof. The guys that I feel

00:52:20.530 --> 00:52:22.449
sorry for are the guys that come in and work

00:52:22.449 --> 00:52:26.570
one shift on a truck that are like scared shitless

00:52:26.570 --> 00:52:28.070
that they're going to actually have to go up

00:52:28.070 --> 00:52:31.570
on the roof and perform. And that's why, you

00:52:31.570 --> 00:52:33.150
know, when I would work overtime and I'd be on

00:52:33.150 --> 00:52:36.190
21, had a medic captain on the truck, they would

00:52:36.190 --> 00:52:38.530
say, hey. I'd always go to them and say, hey,

00:52:38.530 --> 00:52:41.530
do you want to swap today? Because I knew they

00:52:41.530 --> 00:52:44.769
were very uncomfortable being on the truck. And

00:52:44.769 --> 00:52:47.230
usually the guys on the truck were pretty happy

00:52:47.230 --> 00:52:51.079
that I would. come over because you know you

00:52:51.079 --> 00:52:53.039
you want to have somebody up on the roof that's

00:52:53.039 --> 00:52:55.460
gives you a little confidence that you're going

00:52:55.460 --> 00:52:57.780
in the right place doing the right thing do you

00:52:57.780 --> 00:53:00.219
remember that um yes i know what you're gonna

00:53:00.219 --> 00:53:02.739
say the well tell me what you're gonna say it's

00:53:02.739 --> 00:53:04.320
probably not the same i don't think you were

00:53:04.320 --> 00:53:07.099
there the day i was gonna talk about so firstly

00:53:07.099 --> 00:53:10.300
when you came out no the other day that was a

00:53:10.300 --> 00:53:12.159
tuesday no i was gonna say that time we were

00:53:12.159 --> 00:53:16.420
up on the roof and uh it was super we were relatively

00:53:16.420 --> 00:53:22.139
new um I wanted to work with Terry because he

00:53:22.139 --> 00:53:25.260
had the reputation of being the best truck captain

00:53:25.260 --> 00:53:28.519
and I wanted to learn from him. And, you know,

00:53:28.559 --> 00:53:30.739
we'd been through fire academies and we've been

00:53:30.739 --> 00:53:33.199
through our city's academy and, you know, just

00:53:33.199 --> 00:53:35.179
enough to get yourself into a lot of trouble.

00:53:35.920 --> 00:53:38.699
And you don't know how much is too much either.

00:53:38.760 --> 00:53:42.679
So I remember getting up on a roof with Terry

00:53:42.679 --> 00:53:44.860
and this is what I always admired about him is

00:53:44.860 --> 00:53:46.960
he didn't say go over there. He'd say, follow

00:53:46.960 --> 00:53:51.150
me. because for me as a rookie fireman or someone

00:53:51.150 --> 00:53:53.409
with very little experience, I didn't know how

00:53:53.409 --> 00:53:58.070
spongy it can be. Terry did, and I think those

00:53:58.070 --> 00:53:59.969
two, it worked really well for me and really

00:53:59.969 --> 00:54:02.030
bad for me because every call we ever went on,

00:54:02.110 --> 00:54:05.050
when I would be getting scared, I'd look at Terry

00:54:05.050 --> 00:54:07.969
and he'd go, you know, this is completely normal,

00:54:08.090 --> 00:54:12.179
and I would just follow. and i never once worried

00:54:12.179 --> 00:54:14.619
about my safety because i knew he was there and

00:54:14.619 --> 00:54:17.019
i knew he knew what he was doing i knew mostly

00:54:17.019 --> 00:54:19.619
what to do but i don't always know when to do

00:54:19.619 --> 00:54:24.280
it or how to do it and i had him there now fast

00:54:24.280 --> 00:54:29.559
forward a couple years terry leaves and now i'm

00:54:29.559 --> 00:54:32.059
in the position and james in the position too

00:54:32.059 --> 00:54:35.579
you're like i didn't pay close enough attention

00:54:35.579 --> 00:54:37.800
to what you were doing i just accepted and i

00:54:37.800 --> 00:54:40.079
trusted that you were watching me and i don't

00:54:40.079 --> 00:54:41.880
know how much is too much anymore i don't know

00:54:41.880 --> 00:54:44.119
the you know the warning signs but you have that

00:54:44.119 --> 00:54:46.679
feeling inside but i didn't really pay attention

00:54:46.679 --> 00:54:48.260
to it because i knew it was being taken care

00:54:48.260 --> 00:54:52.639
of for me and i think that's my f up but also

00:54:52.639 --> 00:54:55.199
a huge credit to you terry is i never worried

00:54:55.199 --> 00:54:58.639
was i going to be safe because i had someone

00:54:58.639 --> 00:55:04.199
taking care of that for me um but yeah being

00:55:04.199 --> 00:55:06.460
on a truck or being a trucker and doing the vertical

00:55:06.460 --> 00:55:08.960
ventilation that's one of those it's a high risk

00:55:08.960 --> 00:55:11.199
procedure and if you don't know your building

00:55:11.199 --> 00:55:14.000
construction or your first in or how to do it

00:55:14.000 --> 00:55:15.380
properly you're going to get yourself in a lot

00:55:15.380 --> 00:55:20.559
of trouble and at 13 years on now we don't get

00:55:20.559 --> 00:55:24.719
the kind of fires that you did terry um there

00:55:24.719 --> 00:55:27.719
is a huge deficit in our training there's not

00:55:27.719 --> 00:55:30.019
such You can't just go to a building and start

00:55:30.019 --> 00:55:32.239
cutting on the roof. And even if you could, if

00:55:32.239 --> 00:55:33.679
it was an abandoned building, it's completely

00:55:33.679 --> 00:55:38.480
different under fire conditions. Yeah. You never

00:55:38.480 --> 00:55:42.039
get the full effect from it. But here's a funny

00:55:42.039 --> 00:55:44.199
one I'll tell you before you guys came to work

00:55:44.199 --> 00:55:49.360
for me. We got a Carl's Jr. up on Harbor Boulevard

00:55:49.360 --> 00:55:55.469
by the 91 freeway. So we go up there one night

00:55:55.469 --> 00:55:58.170
and 21 gets there ahead of us and it's a grease

00:55:58.170 --> 00:56:02.030
fire on the stove down below. So the two guys

00:56:02.030 --> 00:56:05.250
on 21, which was Kevin Sims and Woody. Just so

00:56:05.250 --> 00:56:08.090
you know, Terry, I was on this fire watching

00:56:08.090 --> 00:56:12.849
everything that happened. Carry on. So these

00:56:12.849 --> 00:56:14.610
guys are up there and they're just beating on

00:56:14.610 --> 00:56:17.289
this thing. They're beating on this ventilator

00:56:17.289 --> 00:56:18.869
up on the roof trying to figure out how to get

00:56:18.869 --> 00:56:20.949
the thing off. With a sledgehammer. And they're

00:56:20.949 --> 00:56:24.280
just... tearing this thing apart trying to anyway

00:56:24.280 --> 00:56:28.760
and uh i can recall looking at him and finally

00:56:28.760 --> 00:56:30.559
i just went over and grabbed the thing and flipped

00:56:30.559 --> 00:56:35.900
it's a hinged unit try before you pry it's a

00:56:35.900 --> 00:56:38.139
hinged unit and all you have to do but it's that's

00:56:38.139 --> 00:56:41.380
the thing if you've never been if you've never

00:56:41.380 --> 00:56:44.099
been there and seen it it would be foreign to

00:56:44.099 --> 00:56:46.860
you yeah but having been there before and seen

00:56:46.860 --> 00:56:49.539
it it was fun watching somebody else struggle

00:56:49.539 --> 00:56:51.630
with it for a little while Before you just kind

00:56:51.630 --> 00:56:53.650
of flip it over, and then you stick the hose

00:56:53.650 --> 00:56:56.789
down the vent. That was before I joined your

00:56:56.789 --> 00:56:59.570
crew, but I was part of that crew. I wasn't part

00:56:59.570 --> 00:57:01.730
of the ones banging it. But let me be very clear.

00:57:02.010 --> 00:57:03.849
I didn't know which way it opened, so I didn't

00:57:03.849 --> 00:57:05.389
know what they were doing was wrong either. So

00:57:05.389 --> 00:57:06.769
I'm not going to pretend like I was like, oh,

00:57:06.909 --> 00:57:08.590
they don't know what they're doing. I didn't

00:57:08.590 --> 00:57:09.989
know either. But it is pretty funny, though.

00:57:10.349 --> 00:57:12.190
All of a sudden, you see that thing flip over,

00:57:12.269 --> 00:57:13.750
and it's like you look at people's eyes, and

00:57:13.750 --> 00:57:17.530
it's like the light just went on. Yeah, it's

00:57:17.530 --> 00:57:20.800
easy. Stop putting that thing in my face. What

00:57:20.800 --> 00:57:26.119
about the microphone? It was fine. I lost my

00:57:26.119 --> 00:57:29.280
train of thought now. You get focused on what

00:57:29.280 --> 00:57:31.679
you're doing and it's pretty easy to not see

00:57:31.679 --> 00:57:34.239
the bigger picture. And that's what it was like

00:57:34.239 --> 00:57:36.639
having Terry with us. He was seeing the bigger

00:57:36.639 --> 00:57:39.599
picture. We were doing what we were doing and

00:57:39.599 --> 00:57:41.300
everything else was being taken care of. And

00:57:41.300 --> 00:57:43.320
sometimes it was just a tap on the shoulder or

00:57:43.320 --> 00:57:44.739
getting whacked in the helmet. It was like, hey,

00:57:44.780 --> 00:57:47.559
do this. I'm like, fuck, I'm an idiot. Like,

00:57:47.579 --> 00:57:51.139
oh, I should fuck out loud. I shouldn't have

00:57:51.139 --> 00:57:53.619
done it. What was I thinking? So, and that's

00:57:53.619 --> 00:57:56.400
what, you know, having that senior guy with you,

00:57:56.440 --> 00:57:59.780
it makes all the difference. Otherwise. I think

00:57:59.780 --> 00:58:02.079
the biggest thing too is what Terry was doing

00:58:02.079 --> 00:58:05.880
for all of us is what we're doing now is that

00:58:05.880 --> 00:58:10.750
whole succession planning. Because now. Look

00:58:10.750 --> 00:58:12.909
at that millennial with his phone ding in there.

00:58:12.969 --> 00:58:16.329
The last hour is ruined now. I'm going to have

00:58:16.329 --> 00:58:18.510
to start from the beginning. Just shut the thing

00:58:18.510 --> 00:58:22.130
off. He's got the Jitterbug app too. His grinder

00:58:22.130 --> 00:58:24.429
just peeped again. I didn't know they still made

00:58:24.429 --> 00:58:29.050
flip phones. It's from you. It's got the Ten

00:58:29.050 --> 00:58:35.730
Commandments on it. The original. But we're going

00:58:35.730 --> 00:58:39.369
to have these newer individuals that are looking

00:58:39.369 --> 00:58:43.440
to us now. and are going to be, we're imparting

00:58:43.440 --> 00:58:46.360
our knowledge on them. Same thing that Terry

00:58:46.360 --> 00:58:49.320
had done for us. There's things that I didn't

00:58:49.320 --> 00:58:51.699
know as a brand new engineer until I went over

00:58:51.699 --> 00:58:55.579
there working for Terry that we're able to pass

00:58:55.579 --> 00:58:58.880
on now to newer individuals, including how to

00:58:58.880 --> 00:59:00.820
fill out an action report when I accidentally

00:59:00.820 --> 00:59:06.860
hit a car. So remember that one? Who was driving

00:59:06.860 --> 00:59:09.500
the back of that? No, it was on the tag axle

00:59:09.500 --> 00:59:13.690
one. 66 -23. Yeah. The little one. I tried to

00:59:13.690 --> 00:59:15.989
help out a cop on scene because cars were zooming

00:59:15.989 --> 00:59:18.230
by him and I ended up smacking the side of a

00:59:18.230 --> 00:59:21.789
Honda. And Terry didn't say anything the whole

00:59:21.789 --> 00:59:23.849
time. I don't think Terry needed to say anything

00:59:23.849 --> 00:59:27.530
because you were so upset with yourself. I wasn't

00:59:27.530 --> 00:59:30.130
here. That was enough. Was that after me? Yeah,

00:59:30.210 --> 00:59:32.190
it might have been. You mentioned before that

00:59:32.190 --> 00:59:34.409
there are certain times that you don't play with

00:59:34.409 --> 00:59:36.190
people in the firehouse when they're having bad

00:59:36.190 --> 00:59:41.679
times or whatever. There's times you don't need

00:59:41.679 --> 00:59:44.840
to say anything to people. And the silence is

00:59:44.840 --> 00:59:47.820
painful as can be. Well, I can tell you why.

00:59:48.000 --> 00:59:50.179
Because when I finally cooled down and I was

00:59:50.179 --> 00:59:54.039
fine, Terry said, I was happy that you were so

00:59:54.039 --> 00:59:57.059
pissed off at yourself. Because if you weren't

00:59:57.059 --> 00:59:58.840
pissed off at yourself, then I would have been

00:59:58.840 --> 01:00:00.900
pissed off at you for not caring enough. But

01:00:00.900 --> 01:00:03.239
that's the thing. It felt like you just let your

01:00:03.239 --> 01:00:05.179
dad down. Like if you did something stupid or

01:00:05.179 --> 01:00:07.239
you messed up. Your grandfather, you mean. Yeah.

01:00:07.739 --> 01:00:12.480
Yeah. You really, you're hard on yourself because

01:00:12.480 --> 01:00:16.440
you let the crew down. And because the person

01:00:16.440 --> 01:00:19.000
who drove the other car didn't think, you know,

01:00:19.059 --> 01:00:24.739
knock it off. Didn't think, oh, Joe hit my car.

01:00:24.840 --> 01:00:28.719
It was those firemen hit the car or fire guys.

01:00:28.880 --> 01:00:32.860
And that was, can you stop it? I was wondering

01:00:32.860 --> 01:00:36.300
why you paint your toes. Yeah. it was the ingrown

01:00:36.300 --> 01:00:38.280
toenail i put some stuff on to make it better

01:00:38.280 --> 01:00:41.820
did you very stop worrying about my toe when

01:00:41.820 --> 01:00:45.340
does nail polish fix ingrown toenails it's not

01:00:45.340 --> 01:00:48.000
nail polish it's not on the nail shut up anyhow

01:00:48.000 --> 01:00:51.719
my sentiment was you you let everyone else down

01:00:51.719 --> 01:00:54.099
when you mess up too it's not just yourself so

01:00:54.099 --> 01:00:58.360
you know that you've messed up and yeah you harden

01:00:58.360 --> 01:01:00.199
yourself like i don't need you to tell me i've

01:01:00.199 --> 01:01:02.809
messed up I'm usually pretty pissed at myself.

01:01:02.969 --> 01:01:04.769
But luckily I have you guys to tease me about

01:01:04.769 --> 01:01:07.829
it afterwards. And yeah, I really appreciate

01:01:07.829 --> 01:01:09.769
that. But it doesn't happen often, I'll just

01:01:09.769 --> 01:01:13.530
say. I think the point that I would make to that

01:01:13.530 --> 01:01:21.590
is we at times were less than easy on each other.

01:01:22.309 --> 01:01:26.510
And so the hazing part of it, people think that's

01:01:26.510 --> 01:01:28.969
a big deal. But really the reality of it is,

01:01:28.989 --> 01:01:36.800
is that... We are smart enough to recognize when

01:01:36.800 --> 01:01:40.440
you play and when you don't play. And that we

01:01:40.440 --> 01:01:45.019
respect each other enough to know when you don't

01:01:45.019 --> 01:01:46.719
need to say a word because somebody's already

01:01:46.719 --> 01:01:50.320
butthurt enough in a real serious way. And that,

01:01:50.320 --> 01:01:54.800
you know, that's just a party foul to go in there

01:01:54.800 --> 01:01:57.000
and add insult to injury at that point in time.

01:01:58.000 --> 01:02:00.159
Because, I mean, I knew I didn't need to say

01:02:00.159 --> 01:02:02.300
anything to Joe because Joe was already. feeling

01:02:02.300 --> 01:02:05.280
like he'd let the whole world down anyway. And,

01:02:05.280 --> 01:02:09.840
you know, there's nothing I'm going to say at

01:02:09.840 --> 01:02:11.420
that point in time that's going to make him feel

01:02:11.420 --> 01:02:13.000
any better because he already feels bad enough.

01:02:13.440 --> 01:02:15.360
So you're just better off just to let it go?

01:02:16.960 --> 01:02:21.639
Yeah, and I caught on real quick is that when

01:02:21.639 --> 01:02:25.679
you don't, if I would have showed no care in

01:02:25.679 --> 01:02:29.389
the world about hitting another vehicle. and

01:02:29.389 --> 01:02:32.510
this moved on and say, hey, this is part of the

01:02:32.510 --> 01:02:37.289
job, then, yeah, that would have really, I would

01:02:37.289 --> 01:02:40.570
have understood how that would have upset Terry.

01:02:40.929 --> 01:02:42.769
Yeah, I would have lost a lot of respect for

01:02:42.769 --> 01:02:46.989
you. Yeah. So, you know, that's a lot of times

01:02:46.989 --> 01:02:50.750
where we take pride in our careers. You know,

01:02:50.750 --> 01:02:52.949
we take pride where you don't want to make a

01:02:52.949 --> 01:02:55.710
mistake. And if you do make a mistake, you own

01:02:55.710 --> 01:02:59.320
up to it. And not just pass it off as, you know,

01:02:59.340 --> 01:03:02.320
no big deal. You know, because we, you know,

01:03:02.320 --> 01:03:05.619
I learned a lot. You know, I thought, okay, you

01:03:05.619 --> 01:03:08.639
drive inherent risk. You do everything you can

01:03:08.639 --> 01:03:13.260
not to wreck a piece of apparatus or wreck somebody's

01:03:13.260 --> 01:03:17.059
property. And it was a big deal for me, you know,

01:03:17.059 --> 01:03:18.519
because I was, like, having to fill out all this

01:03:18.519 --> 01:03:21.400
paperwork, you know. And, you know, this poor

01:03:21.400 --> 01:03:24.449
person's car looked like a... Wolverine took

01:03:24.449 --> 01:03:25.650
the whole side of the quarter panel out. It looked

01:03:25.650 --> 01:03:27.630
like someone opened it up with a can opener.

01:03:27.889 --> 01:03:30.309
Yeah, and a little Honda against a fire truck.

01:03:30.510 --> 01:03:33.150
It was no match. With excessive weight on the

01:03:33.150 --> 01:03:36.010
front left side. It wasn't excessive weight.

01:03:36.010 --> 01:03:38.050
Let me play devil's advocate for a second, though.

01:03:38.110 --> 01:03:41.409
So you guys in Anaheim don't get a caddy day.

01:03:42.170 --> 01:03:47.389
No. No, so it's a 56 -hour work week. So there

01:03:47.389 --> 01:03:51.519
is a chance also. that maybe your cognition was

01:03:51.519 --> 01:03:53.800
a little challenged after a shift after shift

01:03:53.800 --> 01:03:57.219
after shift and your judgment was a little altered

01:03:57.219 --> 01:03:59.360
too because i just sat down with a guy from new

01:03:59.360 --> 01:04:02.219
jersey they do 24 72 that's something i talk

01:04:02.219 --> 01:04:04.679
about on so many of the podcasts but that's a

01:04:04.679 --> 01:04:06.679
factor too and we beat ourselves up like oh my

01:04:06.679 --> 01:04:09.780
god how did i clip that you know that ball out

01:04:09.780 --> 01:04:12.199
or the the car or whatever it was but that's

01:04:12.199 --> 01:04:15.079
a you know a micro decision amongst all the other

01:04:15.079 --> 01:04:16.639
things we've got going on we're going code three

01:04:16.639 --> 01:04:18.519
you're watching for other traffic you know you're

01:04:18.519 --> 01:04:20.780
assessing the the car and the damage and the

01:04:20.780 --> 01:04:22.599
potential patient injuries as you're pulling

01:04:22.599 --> 01:04:25.400
up and that's something that you know we need

01:04:25.400 --> 01:04:28.320
to talk about and you know here in anaheim that's

01:04:28.320 --> 01:04:30.860
a full 56 and we've got this you know little

01:04:30.860 --> 01:04:33.699
clever shift pattern but That's something we

01:04:33.699 --> 01:04:35.639
don't talk about. Line of duty deaths, accidents,

01:04:35.980 --> 01:04:39.460
injuries, the effect of sleep deprivation. It's

01:04:39.460 --> 01:04:44.280
pretty common to be working 72, 96, 100. Can

01:04:44.280 --> 01:04:47.219
you stop? I'll just move forward. I talk loud

01:04:47.219 --> 01:04:50.199
enough. You sat back. You started painting. Hang

01:04:50.199 --> 01:04:55.599
on. Oh, my God. So you can quite easily work

01:04:55.599 --> 01:05:00.820
72, 96, 120 hours straight, five days, night

01:05:00.820 --> 01:05:04.190
straight. I was at one of your podcasts. I heard

01:05:04.190 --> 01:05:08.429
that if you have less than two or four hours

01:05:08.429 --> 01:05:10.269
sleep or something like that. 24 hours without

01:05:10.269 --> 01:05:12.989
sleep, you are 0 .1 blood alcohol cognition.

01:05:14.309 --> 01:05:18.750
Legally drunk. I once worked eight days in a

01:05:18.750 --> 01:05:24.090
row on truck one. Can you imagine that? Yeah.

01:05:24.969 --> 01:05:30.030
When we sign up, when we're opting to do this.

01:05:31.039 --> 01:05:32.900
And that's, you know, there's somewhat ownership

01:05:32.900 --> 01:05:34.659
there. It's the mandatories that get me. But

01:05:34.659 --> 01:05:36.699
then I get a lot of people saying, well, if we

01:05:36.699 --> 01:05:38.159
give more time off, they're just going to work

01:05:38.159 --> 01:05:40.400
anyway. And my counter is if you staff your bloody

01:05:40.400 --> 01:05:43.159
fire department properly, the overtime isn't

01:05:43.159 --> 01:05:44.760
there to work in the first place. There'll be

01:05:44.760 --> 01:05:46.639
some. There'll be a little boost if you need

01:05:46.639 --> 01:05:48.260
it. You know, people get sick. We get hurt. People

01:05:48.260 --> 01:05:51.159
get deployed on strike teams. But the day to

01:05:51.159 --> 01:05:53.679
day running, you're not getting told after 24

01:05:53.679 --> 01:05:56.489
hours. Oh, I'm sorry, Terry, by the way. You

01:05:56.489 --> 01:05:58.210
can't go to your kid's birthday party. You need

01:05:58.210 --> 01:06:00.230
to stay here for another 24 hours. You know what

01:06:00.230 --> 01:06:03.449
I find interesting? I talk to guys at work quite

01:06:03.449 --> 01:06:09.469
frequently, and they're working overtime almost

01:06:09.469 --> 01:06:14.289
constantly. And it amazes me the amount of guys

01:06:14.289 --> 01:06:19.050
that are off work on injury compared to when

01:06:19.050 --> 01:06:22.110
I was a young guy. There was never any overtime.

01:06:22.469 --> 01:06:25.619
I mean, people just didn't get. Didn't go through

01:06:25.619 --> 01:06:32.260
those injuries. But, you know, I would equate

01:06:32.260 --> 01:06:35.380
working multiple shifts in a row as like being

01:06:35.380 --> 01:06:39.739
on jet lag. It's like after about 72 hours, you

01:06:39.739 --> 01:06:41.460
start getting fuzzy in the brain a little bit.

01:06:41.800 --> 01:06:45.199
It's like getting jet lag. And nodding off when

01:06:45.199 --> 01:06:48.480
you're driving home. yeah yeah i mean do you

01:06:48.480 --> 01:06:50.619
remember the i mean i know you do the pallet

01:06:50.619 --> 01:06:53.320
fire we had oh yeah so i mean firstly i want

01:06:53.320 --> 01:06:55.219
to give you that's one of the examples i've used

01:06:55.219 --> 01:06:58.420
before but i want to give you a a kind of kudos

01:06:58.420 --> 01:07:01.820
for that because i know it keeps pulling towards

01:07:01.820 --> 01:07:06.099
you um so we pull up on this enormous pallet

01:07:06.099 --> 01:07:08.860
fire which you know obviously god was probably

01:07:08.860 --> 01:07:10.619
high that day because he's like i'm gonna make

01:07:10.619 --> 01:07:13.679
a wood chip pile place next to the pallet fireplace

01:07:13.679 --> 01:07:16.880
so one of our engines was stuck between the two.

01:07:17.000 --> 01:07:20.059
Their supply line was burnt through. I'll never

01:07:20.059 --> 01:07:22.460
forget that everyone else went moth to the flame

01:07:22.460 --> 01:07:26.639
to the address. It was a good decision as we

01:07:26.639 --> 01:07:29.079
normally do, but you looked at the map, you took

01:07:29.079 --> 01:07:31.900
a step back, you backtracked around, cut a fence,

01:07:32.099 --> 01:07:35.460
went around this lake, cut another fence to rescue

01:07:35.460 --> 01:07:39.460
the engine, whose dials were all melting like

01:07:39.460 --> 01:07:42.780
some Salvador Dali painting, and then proceeded

01:07:42.780 --> 01:07:46.699
to attack the fire from that side. But that was

01:07:46.699 --> 01:07:52.199
what that experience showed is that you were

01:07:52.199 --> 01:07:54.380
able to step off the rig. Me and Dickie, especially

01:07:54.380 --> 01:07:56.539
being brand new guys, we're just looking at the

01:07:56.539 --> 01:07:58.900
fire. Dickie and I. Oh, sorry. Dickie and I stepped

01:07:58.900 --> 01:08:02.159
off the rig. But that experience allowed you,

01:08:02.239 --> 01:08:07.340
despite there being multiple rigs, to be able

01:08:07.340 --> 01:08:12.920
to step back and do that. In my eyes at the time,

01:08:12.980 --> 01:08:16.130
you know what I was thinking? I hope Dickie doesn't

01:08:16.130 --> 01:08:20.050
come with us. No, I mean, I was wondering why.

01:08:20.390 --> 01:08:23.630
Don't give James the soul. Just for your listeners,

01:08:24.550 --> 01:08:27.710
when you say a pallet fire, this is a place that

01:08:27.710 --> 01:08:32.130
built and repaired wooden pallets that are shipped

01:08:32.130 --> 01:08:36.369
at the bottom of container trucks or 40 -foot

01:08:36.369 --> 01:08:41.550
tractor trailers. And they had pallets stacked

01:08:41.550 --> 01:08:47.930
30, 40 high. maybe even more. And I mean, tall,

01:08:48.090 --> 01:08:49.710
tall stacks of pallets. I mean, these things

01:08:49.710 --> 01:08:54.149
were probably 30 feet in the air. The question

01:08:54.149 --> 01:08:59.210
that I had was, why are we going in to fight

01:08:59.210 --> 01:09:02.289
fire to save a bunch of wooden pallets that haven't

01:09:02.289 --> 01:09:05.029
quite completely burned yet? That was my question,

01:09:05.130 --> 01:09:08.670
is why when these stacks of these things start

01:09:08.670 --> 01:09:13.180
burning and they get unevenly balanced. who knows

01:09:13.180 --> 01:09:15.399
which direction they're going to fall, is it

01:09:15.399 --> 01:09:22.779
really worth sacrificing anybody's well -being

01:09:22.779 --> 01:09:25.539
on a pallet fire? No, you're protecting exposures

01:09:25.539 --> 01:09:27.819
is what you're thinking about. Yeah, you just

01:09:27.819 --> 01:09:29.720
go on one side and the other side and lob a bunch

01:09:29.720 --> 01:09:33.720
of water on it. Who gives a damn? But the problem

01:09:33.720 --> 01:09:39.859
is that people get worked up over stuff and they

01:09:39.859 --> 01:09:43.300
forget that... In a lot of parts of the country,

01:09:43.439 --> 01:09:46.539
I think that they actually take a more sane approach

01:09:46.539 --> 01:09:50.340
to it than we do sometimes. Because we expect

01:09:50.340 --> 01:09:55.279
action right now. But I mean, if that had been

01:09:55.279 --> 01:09:58.279
a volunteer fire department with that, they would

01:09:58.279 --> 01:10:01.380
have put a couple monitors on the ground from

01:10:01.380 --> 01:10:03.600
100 feet away and they'd lobbed water at it.

01:10:03.859 --> 01:10:06.319
And nobody would have got hurt. I think also

01:10:06.319 --> 01:10:08.340
a lot of that is we are very fortunate where

01:10:08.340 --> 01:10:12.329
we work. that our response times and the staff

01:10:12.329 --> 01:10:15.630
and the equipment we have is pretty exceptional.

01:10:16.350 --> 01:10:19.090
We are very lucky to have that. So you get a

01:10:19.090 --> 01:10:22.989
lot of rigs on scene very quickly, and everyone

01:10:22.989 --> 01:10:25.729
wants to get engaged. Everyone wants to do something

01:10:25.729 --> 01:10:30.510
to help out. That's why you get this job. And

01:10:30.510 --> 01:10:36.449
you can often get yourself a little bit too close

01:10:36.449 --> 01:10:39.100
too soon. especially with the types of fuels

01:10:39.100 --> 01:10:42.520
that are burning nowadays. But you have areas

01:10:42.520 --> 01:10:45.619
where the response times are a lot longer and

01:10:45.619 --> 01:10:47.479
the fire's already flashed or there's already

01:10:47.479 --> 01:10:49.880
been a collapse before you get a fighting force

01:10:49.880 --> 01:10:55.979
on scene. And I think the accidents are substantially

01:10:55.979 --> 01:11:00.720
less then. But we have better gear and we have

01:11:00.720 --> 01:11:02.739
quicker response times and everyone has a cell

01:11:02.739 --> 01:11:06.859
phone so we get there sooner. you know the fuels

01:11:06.859 --> 01:11:09.140
have changed and they're hotter and they burn

01:11:09.140 --> 01:11:13.159
faster so we get on scene and we're being aggressive

01:11:13.159 --> 01:11:15.420
and we get there just in time to get ourselves

01:11:15.420 --> 01:11:18.479
in a whole lot of trouble unless you take a step

01:11:18.479 --> 01:11:21.560
back and see the bigger picture and that's risk

01:11:21.560 --> 01:11:25.479
a lot to save a lot and risk very little to save

01:11:25.479 --> 01:11:28.520
nothing and that's a huge thing taking that global

01:11:28.520 --> 01:11:31.300
view of everything that was one thing i learned

01:11:31.300 --> 01:11:35.029
from terry too is you'd have since we worked

01:11:35.029 --> 01:11:38.289
with two other apparatus at our station, is getting

01:11:38.289 --> 01:11:40.989
these calls, and everybody wants to be the first

01:11:40.989 --> 01:11:47.069
one on the fire, and getting the call where Terry

01:11:47.069 --> 01:11:50.510
says, hold on, and the other two rigs turn left,

01:11:50.590 --> 01:11:54.399
and he says, turn right. For whatever reason,

01:11:54.479 --> 01:11:55.779
I don't know what they were thinking, but they

01:11:55.779 --> 01:11:57.039
went to the wrong address. Do you remember what

01:11:57.039 --> 01:11:59.159
I'm talking about? And we worried, is this Alzheimer's

01:11:59.159 --> 01:12:01.180
kicking in? What the hell is going on? Is the

01:12:01.180 --> 01:12:03.800
map upside down? He's just taking his time and

01:12:03.800 --> 01:12:07.199
he's looking at the map correctly. And we beat

01:12:07.199 --> 01:12:08.800
them in because they went to the wrong address.

01:12:09.699 --> 01:12:11.619
Yeah, people get in a hurry. You got to know

01:12:11.619 --> 01:12:13.619
where you're going. Yeah. So it's just having

01:12:13.619 --> 01:12:15.800
that overall global view of things, you know,

01:12:15.800 --> 01:12:18.880
starting from the moment we pull out. And Terry

01:12:18.880 --> 01:12:22.439
was one of the ones that I tried to mimic. that

01:12:22.439 --> 01:12:25.760
approach is not getting worked up on an incident

01:12:25.760 --> 01:12:28.779
you know you have to be the one in control and

01:12:28.779 --> 01:12:33.479
bring calm to chaos and learning that comes with

01:12:33.479 --> 01:12:37.739
experience and and learn from uh trying to mimic

01:12:37.739 --> 01:12:42.060
from other people that you worked for and that

01:12:42.060 --> 01:12:44.239
was a good example is never getting worked up

01:12:44.239 --> 01:12:48.779
and and trying to contain the chaos and and and

01:12:49.790 --> 01:12:52.470
be able to put the pieces in place to control

01:12:52.470 --> 01:12:55.750
it. And if you have somebody that's worked up

01:12:55.750 --> 01:12:57.489
and out of control, they're going to miss things.

01:12:57.829 --> 01:13:03.710
Their judgment is skewed. The pieces are not

01:13:03.710 --> 01:13:05.869
going to fall into place correctly. And it's

01:13:05.869 --> 01:13:08.350
happened multiple times. So just taking that

01:13:08.350 --> 01:13:10.689
global view, taking a step back, as they say,

01:13:10.829 --> 01:13:14.949
and being able to put those pieces in place correctly

01:13:14.949 --> 01:13:17.989
and being sound, just having that calm demeanor.

01:13:18.359 --> 01:13:20.640
Puts everybody else in that same position where

01:13:20.640 --> 01:13:22.899
it's like, okay, he's calm, then I'll be calm.

01:13:23.539 --> 01:13:25.500
And that was one of the things that I learned

01:13:25.500 --> 01:13:29.340
from Terry and a couple of the other senior captains

01:13:29.340 --> 01:13:33.479
I had. Kenny Anderson. And that guy could have

01:13:33.479 --> 01:13:36.180
a plane crash into a house and he was talking

01:13:36.180 --> 01:13:38.640
like Ben Stein. He'd fall asleep listening to

01:13:38.640 --> 01:13:45.060
his sighs up. I mean, he was an amazing guy.

01:13:46.060 --> 01:13:54.520
Amazing guy. I mean, when I talk about some of

01:13:54.520 --> 01:13:57.399
these guys, I mean, this is a guy you guys didn't

01:13:57.399 --> 01:14:00.899
get a chance to know. No, never mind. He was

01:14:00.899 --> 01:14:03.819
a, early on he was a firefighter. When I came

01:14:03.819 --> 01:14:07.859
on, he went to medic school, came out of medic

01:14:07.859 --> 01:14:13.319
school. He would, Mr. Monotone, he always spoke

01:14:13.319 --> 01:14:17.300
at one tone, never his. His voice never changed,

01:14:17.520 --> 01:14:22.739
ever. And that was just the way he was. And then

01:14:22.739 --> 01:14:25.699
he started teaching classes at the net on EMTs.

01:14:26.479 --> 01:14:29.800
And we finally started figuring out that this

01:14:29.800 --> 01:14:35.319
guy was, he would give you a class on envenomation.

01:14:36.279 --> 01:14:39.000
People would get snake bites or insect bites.

01:14:40.020 --> 01:14:44.979
He was teaching doctors about that sort of thing.

01:14:45.430 --> 01:14:48.550
Back then. I mean, this guy knew stuff. He could

01:14:48.550 --> 01:14:50.369
have easily have been a physician if he wanted

01:14:50.369 --> 01:14:53.449
to. That guy was one of the smartest guys I've

01:14:53.449 --> 01:14:58.390
ever met. And also one of the scariest. He was

01:14:58.390 --> 01:15:00.369
a very intimidating person. He could be a very

01:15:00.369 --> 01:15:03.949
scary guy too. Yeah, because you couldn't tell

01:15:03.949 --> 01:15:07.390
if he was happy or angry. No, if this guy said

01:15:07.390 --> 01:15:12.170
he didn't like you, you probably should sleep

01:15:12.170 --> 01:15:16.159
with an eye open. I was his rookie, so he never

01:15:16.159 --> 01:15:17.939
had to tell me anything twice. Yeah, you didn't

01:15:17.939 --> 01:15:21.319
question when Kenny – I don't think there's a

01:15:21.319 --> 01:15:23.100
bullet that would have gone through that rhino

01:15:23.100 --> 01:15:28.880
hind. Maybe a .45. He needs to bolster up on

01:15:28.880 --> 01:15:30.960
the caliber on that thing. I think he could have

01:15:30.960 --> 01:15:33.319
stabbed me with his sword leg over there. Yeah,

01:15:33.319 --> 01:15:38.560
well. About the same diameter. Well, speaking

01:15:38.560 --> 01:15:44.100
of leaders, I guess, I want to – kind of transition

01:15:44.100 --> 01:15:47.939
to is pink bleeding exactly there should be a

01:15:47.939 --> 01:15:51.359
textbook but what you know we all came to you

01:15:51.359 --> 01:15:54.300
i think i mean you were were you there was i

01:15:54.300 --> 01:15:56.340
there first or you you were there first okay

01:15:56.340 --> 01:15:59.239
so we all were kind of somewhat around the same

01:15:59.239 --> 01:16:02.220
time as joining the yeah so much so yet we all

01:16:02.220 --> 01:16:05.970
seem to understand and fit in you imagine how

01:16:05.970 --> 01:16:08.489
excited terry was finding out he was getting

01:16:08.489 --> 01:16:11.989
a nearly completely new crew of misfits yes from

01:16:11.989 --> 01:16:13.810
all different countries and we'll talk about

01:16:13.810 --> 01:16:17.090
the the um the truck one patch in a minute but

01:16:17.090 --> 01:16:20.050
what what is your leadership philosophy when

01:16:20.050 --> 01:16:23.350
when you get the new engineer the new firefighter

01:16:23.350 --> 01:16:30.439
the new African. Refugees. How did you create

01:16:30.439 --> 01:16:35.560
an environment? What was your goal that mentored

01:16:35.560 --> 01:16:38.739
us instead of just showing up? Build a wall.

01:16:38.960 --> 01:16:42.539
I have a t -shirt that says that. Build a wall.

01:16:43.420 --> 01:16:49.380
I got it from Corbett. Jeff Corbett. God bless

01:16:49.380 --> 01:16:54.029
his soul. Actually, my philosophy was very simple.

01:16:55.489 --> 01:16:58.109
When I was a firefighter, there were certain

01:16:58.109 --> 01:17:00.430
things I did like and I didn't like. And so I

01:17:00.430 --> 01:17:04.109
learned from those folks based on how they treated

01:17:04.109 --> 01:17:08.329
me. And the people that I like to work for the

01:17:08.329 --> 01:17:11.609
most were the ones that sent me off to do my

01:17:11.609 --> 01:17:16.789
work and left me alone. And so my philosophy.

01:17:17.350 --> 01:17:20.369
has always been is that you tell the person what

01:17:20.369 --> 01:17:23.789
they have to do or in some cases you shouldn't

01:17:23.789 --> 01:17:25.710
need to tell them what they have to do and you

01:17:25.710 --> 01:17:29.109
wait for them to screw up so my philosophy is

01:17:29.109 --> 01:17:31.789
tell them they know what to do and if they're

01:17:31.789 --> 01:17:33.909
not doing it right i'll figure it out and then

01:17:33.909 --> 01:17:35.430
i can have a chance to sit down and talk with

01:17:35.430 --> 01:17:37.510
people in your guys's case it worked out really

01:17:37.510 --> 01:17:42.090
well because you know i i never had to really

01:17:42.090 --> 01:17:45.340
say much to anybody and i know that that's mostly

01:17:45.340 --> 01:17:49.000
just james mostly james that was the thing your

01:17:49.000 --> 01:17:52.899
reputation preceded you long before i ever spoke

01:17:52.899 --> 01:17:56.100
to you for the first time so it yeah i mean that's

01:17:56.100 --> 01:17:58.779
the truth i mean if if you think that there's

01:17:58.779 --> 01:18:00.739
a chance you're going to get called out then

01:18:00.739 --> 01:18:05.079
it's kind of the benefit that i have is is you

01:18:05.079 --> 01:18:07.779
probably came with a little intrepidation about

01:18:07.779 --> 01:18:09.859
if i screwed up i was going to be in deep shit

01:18:10.420 --> 01:18:13.100
And you didn't want to disappoint. So, yeah,

01:18:13.239 --> 01:18:18.699
I mean, keep a high expectation. But really,

01:18:18.899 --> 01:18:23.340
deep down, I mean, you only correct people when

01:18:23.340 --> 01:18:26.560
there's a reason to correct them. Yeah. So, again,

01:18:26.659 --> 01:18:28.939
the polar opposite of the micromanaging thing.

01:18:29.180 --> 01:18:32.579
No, you totally leave them alone. Yeah. You leave

01:18:32.579 --> 01:18:34.640
them alone. And the same with the, you know,

01:18:34.680 --> 01:18:36.899
quote, unquote, hazing or bullying or whatever

01:18:36.899 --> 01:18:40.470
is. we're in a job where even if you're the biggest

01:18:40.470 --> 01:18:44.090
micromanager um you know you're on some giant

01:18:44.090 --> 01:18:46.770
scene you're going to be on your own anyway you're

01:18:46.770 --> 01:18:48.569
sent to you know the charlie side or whatever

01:18:48.569 --> 01:18:51.430
so to then create this thing where oh i can only

01:18:51.430 --> 01:18:53.289
i need to tell you everything you need to do

01:18:53.289 --> 01:18:55.069
which i've worked for departments that like that

01:18:55.069 --> 01:18:57.170
you know i want you to pull the hose this way

01:18:57.170 --> 01:18:59.470
and go to this door and it's it's ridiculous

01:18:59.470 --> 01:19:02.069
but i think that that was it is that you trusted

01:19:02.069 --> 01:19:03.630
us and we trained that's the thing we'll talk

01:19:03.630 --> 01:19:05.789
about in a bit is training but sure you trusted

01:19:05.789 --> 01:19:08.279
us And if it wasn't done perfectly, well, you

01:19:08.279 --> 01:19:10.380
know, no one died. It's fine. We'll talk about

01:19:10.380 --> 01:19:14.159
it. We'll remediate. But you empowered us to

01:19:14.159 --> 01:19:16.380
learn from our mistakes. Like, for example, putting

01:19:16.380 --> 01:19:18.640
a ventilation fan next to a bunch of burning

01:19:18.640 --> 01:19:27.579
papers. Introduction of oxygen. Yes, I was going

01:19:27.579 --> 01:19:29.819
to come to this eventually. But one of my fondest

01:19:29.819 --> 01:19:33.760
memories is we're overhauling and we got a fan

01:19:33.760 --> 01:19:36.930
going at the front door. And James, it was like

01:19:36.930 --> 01:19:39.289
a printing shop or something. And there was a

01:19:39.289 --> 01:19:41.069
stack of paper. I don't know if it was a phone

01:19:41.069 --> 01:19:43.350
book or something that was bound together. But

01:19:43.350 --> 01:19:46.829
James threw it. And the edges were singed and

01:19:46.829 --> 01:19:49.529
still glowing. And it landed right in front of

01:19:49.529 --> 01:19:53.289
this damn blower. And all it did was shoot. Sparks.

01:19:53.289 --> 01:19:55.550
Millions of embers all the way back into this

01:19:55.550 --> 01:19:58.069
building. And I looked up at him. What are you

01:19:58.069 --> 01:20:00.050
doing? He looked at me like the shock look on

01:20:00.050 --> 01:20:03.609
his face. That was priceless. I was very happy

01:20:03.609 --> 01:20:05.210
about that. I'm like, oh, please, let someone

01:20:05.210 --> 01:20:07.569
else see this. That was one of my most humiliating

01:20:07.569 --> 01:20:12.010
firefighting experiences by far. It's actually

01:20:12.010 --> 01:20:13.630
just treat people like you'd like to be treated

01:20:13.630 --> 01:20:19.270
yourself, which kind of goes along with. My belief

01:20:19.270 --> 01:20:22.109
of, you know, you love your neighbor as you love

01:20:22.109 --> 01:20:26.189
yourself. So, you know. To go along, though,

01:20:26.229 --> 01:20:30.210
too, Terry, was that all of us, I was a new engineer,

01:20:30.369 --> 01:20:32.829
there were newer firefighters, and we were all

01:20:32.829 --> 01:20:35.090
working at a place called the Shark Tank, where

01:20:35.090 --> 01:20:38.050
there was about a thousand years of seniority

01:20:38.050 --> 01:20:41.029
unimpeded by progress. These spit -out rookies,

01:20:41.029 --> 01:20:44.979
that front and center. Yeah. So, I was... scared

01:20:44.979 --> 01:20:46.659
shitless to go there as a new engineer, especially

01:20:46.659 --> 01:20:49.140
working for you. I was like, I didn't want to

01:20:49.140 --> 01:20:54.020
screw up anything. And my experience working

01:20:54.020 --> 01:20:58.319
around Terry was very minimal. So I was pretty

01:20:58.319 --> 01:21:01.939
like, damn, I need to be on my A game and impress

01:21:01.939 --> 01:21:05.960
him. And I think that's the thing we always wanted

01:21:05.960 --> 01:21:09.420
to do is we wanted to all be in our A game and

01:21:09.420 --> 01:21:13.100
impress him. That was the expectation. You never

01:21:13.100 --> 01:21:15.560
once said that to us. We just automatically knew.

01:21:16.159 --> 01:21:18.739
If you don't have your shit together or if you

01:21:18.739 --> 01:21:20.359
don't want to learn and you don't want to work

01:21:20.359 --> 01:21:23.279
really, really hard, this is not the rig for

01:21:23.279 --> 01:21:25.979
you. We're working on the busiest truck company

01:21:25.979 --> 01:21:28.760
in the city, if not the county. In the county.

01:21:29.000 --> 01:21:33.180
Yeah. And it's like we're getting our balls kicked

01:21:33.180 --> 01:21:36.939
in, running X amount of calls every night. And

01:21:36.939 --> 01:21:40.819
it's like, well, I want to be the best damn engineer.

01:21:41.779 --> 01:21:45.180
And I want to make sure that, because to me it's

01:21:45.180 --> 01:21:46.840
like, well, shit, if I can impress Terry, I can

01:21:46.840 --> 01:21:50.140
impress anybody doing my job. For the record,

01:21:50.319 --> 01:21:53.960
you never did. Yeah, it's all good. But carry

01:21:53.960 --> 01:21:56.960
on. He has Joe toilet paper even to this day.

01:21:57.239 --> 01:22:04.460
But move on. So, you know, after, you know, Terry,

01:22:04.600 --> 01:22:07.039
to me, the first time I met him, he was very

01:22:07.039 --> 01:22:10.890
standoffish. I don't know if... That was an impression.

01:22:10.909 --> 01:22:13.609
Oh, no, you got the hug and the pat on the back.

01:22:13.770 --> 01:22:15.510
And you didn't get that? The challenge coin.

01:22:15.630 --> 01:22:16.689
Well, they thought you were foreign exchange.

01:22:17.010 --> 01:22:19.189
Yeah. He was like, oh, well, they'll be leaving

01:22:19.189 --> 01:22:22.510
soon. Yeah. We'll just get this one back across

01:22:22.510 --> 01:22:26.409
the border and we'll be good to go. So, you know,

01:22:26.430 --> 01:22:29.369
once I figured my goal was to have Terry open

01:22:29.369 --> 01:22:33.090
up and start teasing me, giving me a hard time,

01:22:33.289 --> 01:22:36.930
making me feel part of the group. Then I know,

01:22:36.989 --> 01:22:40.819
okay, then I'm. I'm welcome. I'm in. You're accepted.

01:22:41.079 --> 01:22:42.939
The things that we talk about that people don't

01:22:42.939 --> 01:22:46.899
like anymore, I was hoping to have because that

01:22:46.899 --> 01:22:49.840
whole standoffish and it's like, you're new here,

01:22:49.920 --> 01:22:52.739
kid. You need to freaking do your job and impress

01:22:52.739 --> 01:22:56.000
me before I start welcoming you with open arms.

01:22:56.020 --> 01:22:57.699
Before we become friends. Yeah. And it's not

01:22:57.699 --> 01:23:00.699
impressed like an ego thing. No. It's show me

01:23:00.699 --> 01:23:02.180
that you can do the job. Show me that you can

01:23:02.180 --> 01:23:05.239
do the job. Show me that what you're here for,

01:23:05.340 --> 01:23:08.300
you're going to do. Yeah. That's all I wanted

01:23:08.300 --> 01:23:11.800
to do. You know? Yeah. You know what I knew?

01:23:11.880 --> 01:23:14.960
That I was on Terry's good side. And we're getting

01:23:14.960 --> 01:23:19.159
ready for inspection. And my counterpart wasn't

01:23:19.159 --> 01:23:21.239
really into doing inspections. So I literally

01:23:21.239 --> 01:23:22.899
drew a chalk line down the middle of the rig

01:23:22.899 --> 01:23:26.819
to clean my side. And Terry came down. You know

01:23:26.819 --> 01:23:29.640
what I'm talking about, right? P. Dillow. And

01:23:29.640 --> 01:23:33.340
he came down with a protein shake. Said, here,

01:23:33.460 --> 01:23:36.729
you know, good job. Thanks for doing that. And

01:23:36.729 --> 01:23:39.750
I was like, you know, that's cool. So that's

01:23:39.750 --> 01:23:43.609
when I felt, and I was still pretty new. Well,

01:23:43.630 --> 01:23:47.689
you know, come station inspection time when you're

01:23:47.689 --> 01:23:50.989
on the truck, it's, you know, you got chow to

01:23:50.989 --> 01:23:53.489
work, to think about whether you're going to

01:23:53.489 --> 01:23:57.630
be cooking that day. You got, you know, majority

01:23:57.630 --> 01:24:02.250
of the BS calls to run. I mean, our schedule's

01:24:02.250 --> 01:24:05.909
already full. You know, and then you throw, you

01:24:05.909 --> 01:24:09.010
know, the truck, it's a vast number of tools

01:24:09.010 --> 01:24:11.470
and equipment and everything that has to be,

01:24:11.470 --> 01:24:15.310
you know, accounted for and tags and cleaned

01:24:15.310 --> 01:24:18.390
and sharpened and, you know, all the inventory

01:24:18.390 --> 01:24:20.409
and all that stuff. It's just a never -ending

01:24:20.409 --> 01:24:22.930
thing. It's a quiet thing, too. You want it to

01:24:22.930 --> 01:24:25.529
look good, but it's a working truck and it's

01:24:25.529 --> 01:24:28.609
January, so it's going to rain. That's when people

01:24:28.609 --> 01:24:31.189
take, and that's when guys will take time off.

01:24:31.789 --> 01:24:34.710
Some guys will take time off during their month

01:24:34.710 --> 01:24:38.189
of December because they know that station one

01:24:38.189 --> 01:24:41.130
is January inspection. To everyone else. Yeah.

01:24:41.149 --> 01:24:44.109
I mean, and you know, you have to, you have to,

01:24:44.130 --> 01:24:47.310
I mean, there's just, it's just, it's, it's an

01:24:47.310 --> 01:24:50.130
ugly part of the year and it's just, you gotta

01:24:50.130 --> 01:24:52.130
get done. I mean, there's just, there's no getting

01:24:52.130 --> 01:24:53.949
around it. So, you know, if you're not willing

01:24:53.949 --> 01:24:55.750
to put your time in, it's going to be pretty

01:24:55.750 --> 01:24:58.229
obvious at that point in location. When they

01:24:58.229 --> 01:25:00.649
come in to inspect that. And you want to be able

01:25:00.649 --> 01:25:03.810
to go to your boss when he comes in and says,

01:25:04.010 --> 01:25:09.409
but you missed this. And you can say, no, that

01:25:09.409 --> 01:25:13.130
was what was done on the other shift. My guy

01:25:13.130 --> 01:25:17.829
didn't miss anything. And so you want to be able

01:25:17.829 --> 01:25:23.279
to say, we did our job. Suck it, chief. Well,

01:25:23.880 --> 01:25:25.520
you want to be able to throw it right back in

01:25:25.520 --> 01:25:29.880
their face because if you did your job, there's

01:25:29.880 --> 01:25:32.039
not anybody who should be able to come to you

01:25:32.039 --> 01:25:37.260
and say one negative thing. I want to transition

01:25:37.260 --> 01:25:38.960
to another topic because that's a good segue.

01:25:40.579 --> 01:25:42.720
Again, we talked earlier about what we're responsible

01:25:42.720 --> 01:25:45.520
for and obviously on the way we did it on our

01:25:45.520 --> 01:25:48.020
truck, we were not only... you know vertical

01:25:48.020 --> 01:25:50.319
ventilation and and you know suppression if we

01:25:50.319 --> 01:25:52.920
needed to but also you know they were the primary

01:25:52.920 --> 01:25:57.720
extrication you know response as well training

01:25:57.720 --> 01:26:01.279
the value of training i've talked about a lot

01:26:01.279 --> 01:26:03.159
everyone listening if they've heard any of the

01:26:03.159 --> 01:26:05.060
other podcasts they already know my stance but

01:26:05.060 --> 01:26:09.539
i'll give you the mic again you tell me i've

01:26:09.539 --> 01:26:11.859
heard things like we can't train the rain can't

01:26:11.859 --> 01:26:14.680
train the dark it's too hot it's too cold so

01:26:14.680 --> 01:26:18.090
without loading the question you're Your views.

01:26:20.430 --> 01:26:23.590
Yeah, I mean, I don't know if I'd go out and

01:26:23.590 --> 01:26:26.069
train in the dark because we were fortunate enough.

01:26:26.069 --> 01:26:28.409
We're on a busy rig. We're out in the dark enough

01:26:28.409 --> 01:26:31.109
already, you know, so it was, you know, whether

01:26:31.109 --> 01:26:33.949
you're out in the dark or not. I mean, that's

01:26:33.949 --> 01:26:38.170
kind of a nebulous for us. I mean, we're not

01:26:38.170 --> 01:26:44.310
the average crew, but I'm a big believer in that.

01:26:44.720 --> 01:26:49.300
You should be prepared to go out and do whatever

01:26:49.300 --> 01:26:55.979
it is you need to do. Because if you're not well

01:26:55.979 --> 01:26:58.020
-versed in everything that's going on, how can

01:26:58.020 --> 01:26:59.720
you have confidence in what you're going to do?

01:27:01.140 --> 01:27:05.520
And that's why I would always tell you guys that

01:27:05.520 --> 01:27:09.840
the opportunity comes around. The opportunity

01:27:09.840 --> 01:27:12.329
is the test. When you get the call, that's the

01:27:12.329 --> 01:27:17.470
test. The training is a classroom. If you don't

01:27:17.470 --> 01:27:20.130
take advantage of test time, you're never going

01:27:20.130 --> 01:27:22.569
to build the confidence to be able to lead your

01:27:22.569 --> 01:27:25.609
group of people in the way that you see fit.

01:27:26.449 --> 01:27:28.630
Because either you have the confidence or you

01:27:28.630 --> 01:27:30.770
don't have the confidence. If you're struggling

01:27:30.770 --> 01:27:35.390
for the answers, then the guys in the room are

01:27:35.390 --> 01:27:36.750
going to see you're struggling for the answers.

01:27:37.109 --> 01:27:40.270
So then it becomes a very nervous time of...

01:27:40.479 --> 01:27:44.060
Are we going to get the victim out? Are we going

01:27:44.060 --> 01:27:45.359
to be able to open the door? Are we going to

01:27:45.359 --> 01:27:47.500
be able to do whatever it is we need to do to

01:27:47.500 --> 01:27:49.420
extricate the person out because there's X amount

01:27:49.420 --> 01:27:54.840
of time that we have? The optimum is we show

01:27:54.840 --> 01:28:00.020
up. It goes like a classroom textbook operation.

01:28:00.579 --> 01:28:04.680
Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. But

01:28:04.680 --> 01:28:08.479
you study in everything along the way because

01:28:08.479 --> 01:28:12.310
you have a toolbox. And whatever you go out,

01:28:12.430 --> 01:28:15.550
I mean, some of the things about training that

01:28:15.550 --> 01:28:18.949
always bothered me was people, the latest and

01:28:18.949 --> 01:28:21.310
greatest guys would show up at the training center

01:28:21.310 --> 01:28:24.369
with a class that says, we don't do it this way

01:28:24.369 --> 01:28:28.090
anymore. We don't do that this way anymore. I

01:28:28.090 --> 01:28:31.369
kind of frown when people say that they've got

01:28:31.369 --> 01:28:33.329
this new way of doing things. It's not that the

01:28:33.329 --> 01:28:35.369
new way is a bad way to learn. It's just that

01:28:35.369 --> 01:28:38.729
everything that you learn throughout your career

01:28:38.729 --> 01:28:43.729
is a resource for you. There's no one technique

01:28:43.729 --> 01:28:46.170
or tactic. There's no one technique that works

01:28:46.170 --> 01:28:50.050
for everything. So therefore, embrace everything

01:28:50.050 --> 01:28:55.529
so that when you get somewhere, if one technique

01:28:55.529 --> 01:28:58.449
doesn't work, you remember something that you

01:28:58.449 --> 01:29:00.989
tried once before that does work. Because the

01:29:00.989 --> 01:29:03.069
age of vehicles, you could have a 50 -year -old

01:29:03.069 --> 01:29:06.729
vehicle versus a brand new vehicle. Speaking

01:29:06.729 --> 01:29:09.029
of vehicles. I'm going to transition just for

01:29:09.029 --> 01:29:11.250
a second because this needs to be said. Do you

01:29:11.250 --> 01:29:13.449
remember the great car fire of Anaheim Station

01:29:13.449 --> 01:29:16.170
1 where the truck has to come in and rescue the

01:29:16.170 --> 01:29:19.710
engine? And they dumped their entire AMS cabinet

01:29:19.710 --> 01:29:23.090
while they pulled out of the station? Yard sale.

01:29:23.310 --> 01:29:27.270
But that was it. And the people involved obviously

01:29:27.270 --> 01:29:29.109
were good people and we worked alongside them.

01:29:29.149 --> 01:29:31.689
But that was a moment where not understanding

01:29:31.689 --> 01:29:35.010
the construction of that particular vehicle,

01:29:35.130 --> 01:29:38.229
doing the wrong kind of cut on that hood. ended

01:29:38.229 --> 01:29:41.609
up, it should have been a simple car fire, being

01:29:41.609 --> 01:29:45.189
basically a multi -company response. The car

01:29:45.189 --> 01:29:48.350
fire from hell. When you said car, I thought

01:29:48.350 --> 01:29:49.829
we were going to talk about the green Sentra

01:29:49.829 --> 01:29:53.390
that used to drive. You guys remember that? There

01:29:53.390 --> 01:29:55.529
was a license plate frame on it. Do you guys

01:29:55.529 --> 01:29:58.409
remember what it said on the back? Relightness.

01:29:58.970 --> 01:30:02.250
My heart belongs to a fireman. Oh, yes. That

01:30:02.250 --> 01:30:05.569
used to drive? Yes. I was very proud of you for

01:30:05.569 --> 01:30:08.119
that. We didn't have anyone that was out of the

01:30:08.119 --> 01:30:11.199
closet working for us at the time. You're a real

01:30:11.199 --> 01:30:13.300
train setter. Did you show James your license

01:30:13.300 --> 01:30:18.220
plate frame on your little BMW? Oh, no, I didn't.

01:30:18.220 --> 01:30:24.220
I didn't say. Joe, carry on. No, no. It's got

01:30:24.220 --> 01:30:25.720
to come from him. Is it better from Dickie? Yeah,

01:30:25.739 --> 01:30:27.699
it's better from Dickie. He's good with it now.

01:30:27.779 --> 01:30:29.939
Please. Because the best part about it is that

01:30:29.939 --> 01:30:33.159
his son found it. My son found it. The lovely

01:30:33.159 --> 01:30:37.119
fellas that I work with decided I... Got an electric

01:30:37.119 --> 01:30:40.079
car. So I could go in a carpool lane to work

01:30:40.079 --> 01:30:42.039
to cut the commute down. When you say electric

01:30:42.039 --> 01:30:44.739
car, is that like a golf cart or? No, it's a

01:30:44.739 --> 01:30:46.859
vehicle you drive on the street. Shut up. It's

01:30:46.859 --> 01:30:49.439
a car. It's electric. Anyhow. They used to deliver

01:30:49.439 --> 01:30:51.880
milk in those when I was little. Oh, in England.

01:30:53.100 --> 01:30:59.760
We go to the store and buy it over here. So I

01:30:59.760 --> 01:31:02.810
got an electric car. I drove it to the station

01:31:02.810 --> 01:31:06.010
and the guys decided to go get a license plate

01:31:06.010 --> 01:31:08.350
frame and remove the one that I had and replace

01:31:08.350 --> 01:31:14.109
it with the other plug goes in my butt. So obviously

01:31:14.109 --> 01:31:17.310
you plug the car in. Is that before or after

01:31:17.310 --> 01:31:19.329
they put eyelashes on your headlights? No, they

01:31:19.329 --> 01:31:22.109
put eyelashes on it first and then a while later.

01:31:22.310 --> 01:31:25.170
Did you sue the other one? No, actually I didn't.

01:31:25.170 --> 01:31:27.590
It didn't even cross my mind. I thought it was

01:31:27.590 --> 01:31:30.909
pending. I drove it around for a couple of days

01:31:30.909 --> 01:31:35.130
without noticing. And then picked my son up from

01:31:35.130 --> 01:31:39.350
school. And sat in the line to pick him up too

01:31:39.350 --> 01:31:42.789
with people behind me. We go home. I park the

01:31:42.789 --> 01:31:45.550
car. And he goes to the trunk and he goes, wait,

01:31:45.550 --> 01:31:49.289
dad, what goes in your butt? And that was it.

01:31:49.310 --> 01:31:52.130
My son was eight at the time. So I had to explain

01:31:52.130 --> 01:31:53.829
to him like, oh, I'm not sure where this came

01:31:53.829 --> 01:31:58.069
from. Or I don't understand. Yeah, I took it

01:31:58.069 --> 01:31:59.789
off, but I drove around with it for a couple

01:31:59.789 --> 01:32:04.649
of days. And that was that. I don't know exactly

01:32:04.649 --> 01:32:07.529
who did it, but I have an idea. I have an alibi.

01:32:07.569 --> 01:32:11.550
I was in Florida. I'm innocent of that one. I

01:32:11.550 --> 01:32:14.350
remember when that letter came to the station

01:32:14.350 --> 01:32:17.670
addressed to Joe from some pen pal. In prison.

01:32:18.630 --> 01:32:21.329
Was that you, to be honest? No, it wasn't. I

01:32:21.329 --> 01:32:24.869
wish it was. I wish it was one of us. I would

01:32:24.869 --> 01:32:28.050
claim that. Do you remember that? I do remember

01:32:28.050 --> 01:32:30.770
that. A letter from someone. There was two. There

01:32:30.770 --> 01:32:34.050
was one, someone that was in prison. They were

01:32:34.050 --> 01:32:36.310
both in prison. They were prison letters. They

01:32:36.310 --> 01:32:37.770
were both in prison. No, there was one that had

01:32:37.770 --> 01:32:40.210
a picture of a pretty girl on it, and she just

01:32:40.210 --> 01:32:42.390
needed some money, and if you could just send

01:32:42.390 --> 01:32:46.449
it to her. Anyhow, somebody put Joe's name on

01:32:46.449 --> 01:32:49.850
a... pen pal website yeah somebody people were

01:32:49.850 --> 01:32:51.890
sending him letters with the station address

01:32:51.890 --> 01:32:54.149
how do you know it'd be the pen pal website I

01:32:54.149 --> 01:32:57.569
don't know how do you know how does he know if

01:32:57.569 --> 01:33:00.409
it was me I would claim this one I would love

01:33:00.409 --> 01:33:02.250
to be able to say he calls me he's like hey was

01:33:02.250 --> 01:33:05.989
that you and I'm like damn it no I wish it was

01:33:05.989 --> 01:33:08.949
that's genius that is genius I got sent young

01:33:08.949 --> 01:33:12.430
and modern magazine the teen magazine is that

01:33:12.430 --> 01:33:18.649
you for twinks for twinks so Someone signed Joe

01:33:18.649 --> 01:33:21.649
up to be a pen pal for prison inmates, and they

01:33:21.649 --> 01:33:24.729
would write to him at the station. And then,

01:33:24.770 --> 01:33:26.510
of course, we'd take the letter and put it up

01:33:26.510 --> 01:33:30.930
for everyone to read. I never wrote back. Bullshit.

01:33:31.189 --> 01:33:33.529
The letters kept coming. They're getting out

01:33:33.529 --> 01:33:36.810
soon. They know where you live. And then there

01:33:36.810 --> 01:33:40.050
was also the... It was obviously some scam artist

01:33:40.050 --> 01:33:42.109
like the Nigerian prince who needs your help.

01:33:42.250 --> 01:33:45.090
Someone you know. A picture of a very pretty

01:33:45.090 --> 01:33:50.829
girl sends a picture and she just needs some

01:33:50.829 --> 01:33:52.810
help because she's caught between a rock and

01:33:52.810 --> 01:33:55.710
a hard place in some foreign country. But he's

01:33:55.710 --> 01:33:58.029
so amazing. And please, can you just send some

01:33:58.029 --> 01:33:59.890
money to this address and I'll come and visit

01:33:59.890 --> 01:34:03.350
you. And I feel we have a connection. And that's

01:34:03.350 --> 01:34:06.619
kept coming for a while. Do not know who did

01:34:06.619 --> 01:34:10.720
that. Well, here's the thing. I sent you a genius.

01:34:10.920 --> 01:34:13.600
It was about a year ago now. Yeah, put this in

01:34:13.600 --> 01:34:16.319
your face. At the time, it was a brilliant gift.

01:34:16.560 --> 01:34:19.319
But you'd gone and fucking been off work. But

01:34:19.319 --> 01:34:21.800
it was called a bag of dicks. And it's all these

01:34:21.800 --> 01:34:23.800
gummies. I never got that. No, you never got

01:34:23.800 --> 01:34:25.439
it. But Perry was like, oh, yeah. Someone else

01:34:25.439 --> 01:34:27.680
got it. There was dick confetti all over Station

01:34:27.680 --> 01:34:30.119
3 or whatever. And I'm like, so, yeah, you never

01:34:30.119 --> 01:34:32.739
got my bag of dicks. Was it confetti or food?

01:34:33.210 --> 01:34:36.810
It was both. It was gummy dicks with confetti.

01:34:37.289 --> 01:34:38.810
Yeah, but you would have gobbled those things

01:34:38.810 --> 01:34:41.430
up in a heartbeat. Yeah, I had to beat Joe to

01:34:41.430 --> 01:34:43.109
it. Was that different than the spotted dick?

01:34:43.210 --> 01:34:46.149
The kind of spotted dick thing? I never had any

01:34:46.149 --> 01:34:48.510
spotted dick, thank you. No, I never got that.

01:34:48.529 --> 01:34:51.890
That's the first I'm hearing of it. Yeah, I sent

01:34:51.890 --> 01:34:53.350
you a bag of dicks and it was ruined. It cost

01:34:53.350 --> 01:34:56.350
me like 40 bucks. Who got it? Someone on Station

01:34:56.350 --> 01:34:58.949
3 opened it up. But it was when you were off.

01:34:59.010 --> 01:35:00.649
I didn't realize that you'd been off for the

01:35:00.649 --> 01:35:04.109
yeast infection. Who was it? Probably a yeast

01:35:04.109 --> 01:35:11.109
infection, yes. Or rickets or polio. When I first

01:35:11.109 --> 01:35:13.729
came on, off probation, I worked at Old Station

01:35:13.729 --> 01:35:15.909
2, which you guys have never seen Old Station

01:35:15.909 --> 01:35:19.329
2. But if you were to, I'll describe it to you.

01:35:19.850 --> 01:35:23.409
It was a firehouse that had the apparatus floor

01:35:23.409 --> 01:35:27.180
in the middle of the station. And there was an

01:35:27.180 --> 01:35:30.500
office and a dorm on one side and then a day

01:35:30.500 --> 01:35:33.819
room and a kitchen and a room in the back you

01:35:33.819 --> 01:35:35.479
could work out on the other side. I've worked

01:35:35.479 --> 01:35:38.399
in stations like that recently. Okay. And the

01:35:38.399 --> 01:35:40.859
doors were sliding doors that didn't seal up.

01:35:41.560 --> 01:35:43.699
So the minute you pulled in the firehouse, of

01:35:43.699 --> 01:35:45.819
course, we didn't have any vent, you know, no

01:35:45.819 --> 01:35:49.899
ducting for plymo vents to get the, so there

01:35:49.899 --> 01:35:52.260
was, the minute they pulled up in the firehouse,

01:35:52.340 --> 01:35:54.840
you could, you were either breathing, you know.

01:35:55.360 --> 01:36:01.399
gasoline or diesel. And the battalion chief had

01:36:01.399 --> 01:36:04.060
his dorm on the other side of the firehouse by

01:36:04.060 --> 01:36:10.880
the office. And we used to like to have fun with

01:36:10.880 --> 01:36:12.899
the battalion chiefs. When they would come work

01:36:12.899 --> 01:36:16.100
overtime, we would make sure we welcomed them.

01:36:16.300 --> 01:36:21.000
What'd you do? This has got to be good. So I

01:36:21.000 --> 01:36:25.420
brought in a masonry drill bit. And I drilled

01:36:25.420 --> 01:36:28.800
a hole through the plaster on the outside of

01:36:28.800 --> 01:36:31.380
the firehouse right through the drywall on the

01:36:31.380 --> 01:36:33.079
inside of the firehouse. Or actually through

01:36:33.079 --> 01:36:34.800
the plaster because it was plaster on both sides.

01:36:36.619 --> 01:36:39.920
And what I did was I drilled it down real low

01:36:39.920 --> 01:36:43.159
to where they couldn't see. And since the battalion

01:36:43.159 --> 01:36:45.039
chiefs never cleaned their own office or their

01:36:45.039 --> 01:36:48.520
dorm, they never noticed what was in the wall.

01:36:49.119 --> 01:36:52.680
But I took a piece of monofilament line and I

01:36:52.680 --> 01:36:55.340
ran it fishing line. And I ran it through the

01:36:55.340 --> 01:36:57.380
wall out to the parking lot and I left a little

01:36:57.380 --> 01:36:59.939
coil of it out there. And then I left a coil

01:36:59.939 --> 01:37:02.619
on the inside. And so when the battalion chief

01:37:02.619 --> 01:37:04.279
would make his bed in the morning and then he

01:37:04.279 --> 01:37:06.500
would leave the station to go do his duties downtown,

01:37:06.819 --> 01:37:11.060
I would pull his sheets back up off his bed and

01:37:11.060 --> 01:37:16.560
I would put a diaper pin, you know, and a diaper

01:37:16.560 --> 01:37:19.220
pin, two of them on each side of his top sheet,

01:37:19.359 --> 01:37:24.489
his flat sheet. And then I would put a... a short

01:37:24.489 --> 01:37:27.710
line that would go in between them. And then

01:37:27.710 --> 01:37:29.890
I would reach up and I would clip the line that

01:37:29.890 --> 01:37:32.569
went to the outside of the firehouse onto that

01:37:32.569 --> 01:37:34.609
line. And then I would neatly tuck it all back

01:37:34.609 --> 01:37:36.609
in and put everything back in just like that.

01:37:37.609 --> 01:37:40.069
And so when he would go to bed at night, I would

01:37:40.069 --> 01:37:42.369
sit outside the window and I would wait like

01:37:42.369 --> 01:37:45.989
20, 30 minutes for him to go to sleep. And I

01:37:45.989 --> 01:37:47.810
would start pulling the covers off of his bed.

01:37:53.260 --> 01:37:55.460
You'd pull the covers out a little bit and he'd

01:37:55.460 --> 01:38:00.399
reach back and he'd pull them back up. He was

01:38:00.399 --> 01:38:02.420
sure there was somebody in the room with him.

01:38:03.140 --> 01:38:05.939
I'm sure. What about, if you don't mind, the

01:38:05.939 --> 01:38:09.689
Dennis Hamilton putting the... The grinder inside

01:38:09.689 --> 01:38:12.729
someone's car. Oh, yeah. Didn't you also, used

01:38:12.729 --> 01:38:15.449
to the same BC, you guys would cut the lock off

01:38:15.449 --> 01:38:18.310
his locker. They had a combination. You'd cut

01:38:18.310 --> 01:38:20.170
it off and put a brand new one on that matched

01:38:20.170 --> 01:38:22.449
exactly it. That was John Sayre, Captain Sayre.

01:38:22.609 --> 01:38:25.590
So you always had the wrong combination, or the

01:38:25.590 --> 01:38:27.689
right combination, but to the wrong lock. Oh,

01:38:27.689 --> 01:38:32.569
yeah. We tortured him forever because he begged

01:38:32.569 --> 01:38:35.090
for it. He was just one of those personalities.

01:38:35.090 --> 01:38:37.050
He would come in the firehouse and he would immediately

01:38:37.050 --> 01:38:40.130
start barking orders at our captains that were

01:38:40.130 --> 01:38:43.250
working on our shift. Did he sue? He never sued.

01:38:43.770 --> 01:38:47.430
I'm seeing a common thread here. Go on. He needed

01:38:47.430 --> 01:38:50.770
discipline. It was almost like he needed a gal

01:38:50.770 --> 01:38:54.539
with a leather suit. We thought when we showed

01:38:54.539 --> 01:38:56.979
up today that Joe was going to be naked with

01:38:56.979 --> 01:38:59.300
an apple in his mouth, speaking of that. A big

01:38:59.300 --> 01:39:02.039
red ball? I may know someone in a leather suit.

01:39:02.359 --> 01:39:04.260
Yeah. I've seen Richard in a leather suit. Yeah.

01:39:04.340 --> 01:39:07.439
No, these guys, we just would, we pranked them.

01:39:08.260 --> 01:39:12.220
I mean, we played hard with the captains. I mean,

01:39:12.220 --> 01:39:15.539
we were young firemen, and we immediately saw

01:39:15.539 --> 01:39:19.470
that those guys needed help. What about Dennis'

01:39:19.630 --> 01:39:25.090
one? Well, Dennis had some good pranks. I mean,

01:39:25.109 --> 01:39:28.310
he would steal your car and park it three or

01:39:28.310 --> 01:39:30.069
four blocks away in somebody else's neighborhood.

01:39:30.930 --> 01:39:34.829
Or he would get inside of it and tie the door

01:39:34.829 --> 01:39:36.489
handles together to where you couldn't open the

01:39:36.489 --> 01:39:39.649
car door. What did he do to Ricky Gustin? Oh,

01:39:39.649 --> 01:39:41.850
he did lots of things to Ricky Gustin. Did he

01:39:41.850 --> 01:39:46.409
tie the brake to the horn? Well, what he did

01:39:46.409 --> 01:39:53.609
was he wired a siren, a mechanical siren. He

01:39:53.609 --> 01:39:55.649
put a mechanical siren up underneath the hood,

01:39:55.789 --> 01:40:00.250
and he ran it to the brake switch, the 12 -volt

01:40:00.250 --> 01:40:01.710
brake switch, so when you would hit the brake

01:40:01.710 --> 01:40:10.569
pedal, it would start to wind up the grinder.

01:40:11.609 --> 01:40:16.899
There he was. Ricky lived in Oregon and he would

01:40:16.899 --> 01:40:18.380
come down and he would work like five shifts

01:40:18.380 --> 01:40:20.279
in a row and then he would go back home for like

01:40:20.279 --> 01:40:25.800
10, 12 days. So he always had to travel. He would

01:40:25.800 --> 01:40:28.119
work three shifts with us and he worked two trade

01:40:28.119 --> 01:40:31.220
shifts with usually Station 8 for Bob Moore or

01:40:31.220 --> 01:40:35.279
whomever out there. And so he hops in his car

01:40:35.279 --> 01:40:37.800
one day and he pulls out and he gets down to

01:40:37.800 --> 01:40:39.239
the end of the street where he hits the brake.

01:40:42.460 --> 01:40:44.619
So he gets all the way over to station three

01:40:44.619 --> 01:40:48.079
and he's doing circles in the parking lot with

01:40:48.079 --> 01:40:53.260
his foot on the brake. See, that's just genius

01:40:53.260 --> 01:40:56.439
pranking. See, that was the type of pranking

01:40:56.439 --> 01:40:59.739
that was of, you know, when you got pranked like

01:40:59.739 --> 01:41:02.699
that, you could be proud of that. That was a

01:41:02.699 --> 01:41:06.039
good one. That wasn't mean. That was just, hey,

01:41:06.079 --> 01:41:08.159
they got the best of me on that one. It's funny.

01:41:08.239 --> 01:41:12.649
It is funny, you know. It's like putting something

01:41:12.649 --> 01:41:18.149
in somebody's locker. The stuff that we were

01:41:18.149 --> 01:41:24.369
doing or do is stressful. And you ask a lot of

01:41:24.369 --> 01:41:27.090
the people that you work with and the guy behind

01:41:27.090 --> 01:41:28.930
you and the guy in front of you and the guy next

01:41:28.930 --> 01:41:33.390
to you. And this is one of the ways that we kind

01:41:33.390 --> 01:41:35.949
of decompress. Because you've got to be able

01:41:35.949 --> 01:41:37.829
to have a good laugh. You have to be able to

01:41:37.829 --> 01:41:40.850
laugh at yourself. And the minute that you can't,

01:41:40.850 --> 01:41:43.789
you're taking yourself too serious. Well, speaking

01:41:43.789 --> 01:41:46.250
of which, do you remember the pin board? I love

01:41:46.250 --> 01:41:48.149
that. When one of us screwed up and you come

01:41:48.149 --> 01:41:51.069
back, there'd be all these freaking Photoshopped

01:41:51.069 --> 01:41:53.529
or whatever, pictures of whatever you've done

01:41:53.529 --> 01:41:56.369
with your face and people fucking up and whatever.

01:41:56.649 --> 01:41:58.329
You're talking about the cork board in the day

01:41:58.329 --> 01:42:02.090
room. Yes. Yeah, it was a good one. Do you remember

01:42:02.090 --> 01:42:06.289
that, Dickie? Oh, I do. You know, we had something

01:42:06.289 --> 01:42:09.649
like that. We had two guys that were really good

01:42:09.649 --> 01:42:13.350
artists. They were very, very good artists. This

01:42:13.350 --> 01:42:17.350
is back in the day before computers and photocopiers

01:42:17.350 --> 01:42:19.069
and printing presses. When he says artists, he

01:42:19.069 --> 01:42:22.869
means sculptors. This is good stuff. Scott Roberts

01:42:22.869 --> 01:42:25.689
and Bruce Jacobson. They were really good with

01:42:25.689 --> 01:42:28.869
drawing pictures and making cartoons. And the

01:42:28.869 --> 01:42:31.810
guy that you talked about that had the lock was

01:42:31.810 --> 01:42:34.939
on their shift. The captain out there. And so

01:42:34.939 --> 01:42:38.840
every day when we would go off shift, I would

01:42:38.840 --> 01:42:40.960
just always wonder what was going to happen that

01:42:40.960 --> 01:42:42.659
day because something was going to happen that

01:42:42.659 --> 01:42:45.119
day that was going to be classic. And what they

01:42:45.119 --> 01:42:48.279
started doing was they would take a chalkboard

01:42:48.279 --> 01:42:51.079
and they would make like a cartoon out of it.

01:42:51.119 --> 01:42:53.199
So they would make like two or three lines vertical

01:42:53.199 --> 01:42:55.399
and then a line horizontal. And there would be

01:42:55.399 --> 01:42:59.039
scene one. It was a storyboard. And so I couldn't

01:42:59.039 --> 01:43:01.880
wait to come back to the firehouse. The next

01:43:01.880 --> 01:43:03.680
morning, the first thing I would do is I would

01:43:03.680 --> 01:43:05.279
go in there and I would see what was on the board

01:43:05.279 --> 01:43:07.340
because that would tell me how the day went for

01:43:07.340 --> 01:43:10.220
those guys. But all it does is boost morale for

01:43:10.220 --> 01:43:13.500
everybody. Oh, everybody loved it. You know,

01:43:13.539 --> 01:43:17.159
one of my favorite, just to interject for a second,

01:43:17.260 --> 01:43:20.739
I will never forget being at one of the computers,

01:43:20.939 --> 01:43:22.760
you know, I guess looking at Telestaff, whatever

01:43:22.760 --> 01:43:29.750
it was, and hearing Marcel going. one two one

01:43:29.750 --> 01:43:36.270
two marcel medina marcel medina so what happened

01:43:36.270 --> 01:43:38.069
they'd issued us all wasn't it flash drives wasn't

01:43:38.069 --> 01:43:41.810
it yeah yeah it's for our reports so jimmy portillo

01:43:41.810 --> 01:43:46.569
had told marcel this was voice activated software

01:43:46.569 --> 01:43:50.909
for reports but you have to you have to you know

01:43:50.909 --> 01:43:53.649
program it so you have to say your name your

01:43:53.649 --> 01:43:57.720
date of birth so marcel's talking into this The

01:43:57.720 --> 01:44:01.039
splash drive. One, two. Jimmy's lucky he'll still

01:44:01.039 --> 01:44:03.279
be here. Yeah, we hear this penny finally drop

01:44:03.279 --> 01:44:05.140
and then all of a sudden it's just like... Oh,

01:44:05.180 --> 01:44:07.600
you're fucking with me. Cubicles going everywhere.

01:44:08.060 --> 01:44:12.100
Ryan Drum walked by and Ryan goes, what you doing?

01:44:12.300 --> 01:44:14.720
You know, typical Ryan Drum voice. And Marcel

01:44:14.720 --> 01:44:16.739
tries to give him a class. Well, you know, we

01:44:16.739 --> 01:44:19.579
have this huge software and you got to talk into

01:44:19.579 --> 01:44:22.260
it and you got to say one, two and this is...

01:44:22.260 --> 01:44:25.670
Unless he's fucking with me. And then he hit

01:44:25.670 --> 01:44:28.029
a little pot. That son of a bitch. And then he

01:44:28.029 --> 01:44:31.069
goes, I'm going to fuck him up. Frickin' Jimmy

01:44:31.069 --> 01:44:33.489
took off running. Marcel went after him. Yeah,

01:44:33.489 --> 01:44:36.510
Marcel is like a legit Golden Gloves heavyweight

01:44:36.510 --> 01:44:40.409
boxer. So, oh my God. Lucky nobody died in the

01:44:40.409 --> 01:44:46.390
process. That was a good story. That was good.

01:44:46.569 --> 01:44:49.289
That was so many of them. Oh, yeah. Rocky Aldi

01:44:49.289 --> 01:44:51.630
had one of those moments. With the fax machine

01:44:51.630 --> 01:44:55.140
or something? The fax machine. Yeah. Well, Jimmy

01:44:55.140 --> 01:44:58.060
Portillo and Grant Riley were messing with me

01:44:58.060 --> 01:45:00.399
one day. It was cooking. And then they started

01:45:00.399 --> 01:45:03.600
throwing eggs at me. So I'm like, okay, fine.

01:45:04.060 --> 01:45:05.979
They go away and they come back. But they went

01:45:05.979 --> 01:45:09.840
and put all my uniforms on. So I went into the

01:45:09.840 --> 01:45:11.279
locker room. They went in my locker and they

01:45:11.279 --> 01:45:13.800
put my uniforms on. And they came back and they

01:45:13.800 --> 01:45:15.180
were messing with me, messing with me. And I

01:45:15.180 --> 01:45:17.130
was like, you know what? Screw it. Here I go.

01:45:17.569 --> 01:45:19.829
So I started throwing a whole bunch of eggs and

01:45:19.829 --> 01:45:22.050
flour and everything back. And then it dawned

01:45:22.050 --> 01:45:24.369
on me like they weren't even ducking. And they

01:45:24.369 --> 01:45:26.590
were laughing about it. I'm like, what is going

01:45:26.590 --> 01:45:28.850
on? You'd expect them to like run away or like

01:45:28.850 --> 01:45:32.609
throw back. And then it dawned on me. I just

01:45:32.609 --> 01:45:34.890
ruined all of my uniforms. Well, you know, the

01:45:34.890 --> 01:45:37.270
beat about that is I don't think with some of

01:45:37.270 --> 01:45:39.449
the names that you discussed that they put your

01:45:39.449 --> 01:45:42.109
uniforms on anymore. Talking about Jimmy. There's

01:45:42.109 --> 01:45:46.369
no way in hell I'll fit into him. Oh, no. i'm

01:45:46.369 --> 01:45:50.670
surprised i want i want to talk about something

01:45:50.670 --> 01:45:52.449
else it's going to kind of you know bring the

01:45:52.449 --> 01:45:56.350
the level down a bit but again back to terry

01:45:56.350 --> 01:45:59.170
we all know now sitting around this table that

01:45:59.170 --> 01:46:03.189
the the mental health side of what we do that

01:46:03.189 --> 01:46:05.550
there's certainly an issue you know i mean there's

01:46:05.550 --> 01:46:10.630
i'm 2500 miles away and i know that so many people

01:46:10.630 --> 01:46:13.109
i got hired with that you know i consider brothers

01:46:13.109 --> 01:46:15.979
over here have gone through hell and back. And

01:46:15.979 --> 01:46:18.220
obviously part of it is divorce and other things

01:46:18.220 --> 01:46:20.539
that are going on, losing their family members.

01:46:21.020 --> 01:46:26.340
But that's an area that we're forced to address

01:46:26.340 --> 01:46:29.199
as well. So I know we had a talk a while ago

01:46:29.199 --> 01:46:32.920
now, but what have you seen in the fire service

01:46:32.920 --> 01:46:35.640
about that element, the depression, the suicide,

01:46:35.880 --> 01:46:41.430
the PTSD? And was it an issue then? Or is it

01:46:41.430 --> 01:46:43.470
that we're dealing with it differently now? And

01:46:43.470 --> 01:46:45.569
some of the things like the cell phones and the

01:46:45.569 --> 01:46:49.470
tribal community, those being lost a little bit

01:46:49.470 --> 01:46:51.310
are contributing to us not being able to deal

01:46:51.310 --> 01:46:56.369
with what we see. That's kind of a tough one.

01:46:59.489 --> 01:47:04.529
Because in the early days, I mean, if you had

01:47:04.529 --> 01:47:09.560
a call that was a very traumatic call, They eventually

01:47:09.560 --> 01:47:13.420
had a group of guys that they would give training

01:47:13.420 --> 01:47:17.300
to, and they would have those guys call or come

01:47:17.300 --> 01:47:21.899
to the firehouse and say, see if they needed

01:47:21.899 --> 01:47:24.960
critical incident stress re -briefing. But most

01:47:24.960 --> 01:47:27.880
of the time, especially very early on, I mean,

01:47:27.880 --> 01:47:31.539
there was very few people would actually embrace

01:47:31.539 --> 01:47:37.260
the idea. It was kind of taboo. It was like wearing

01:47:37.260 --> 01:47:40.069
the Scott packs. Now, a question for you, because

01:47:40.069 --> 01:47:46.289
I talk about our impression of what a man was.

01:47:46.430 --> 01:47:48.989
And a lot of us, you know, your generation and

01:47:48.989 --> 01:47:51.829
our generation, you know, we were raised on Rambo

01:47:51.829 --> 01:47:53.949
and the Terminator and all this bullshit and

01:47:53.949 --> 01:47:56.689
John Wayne. And I've talked about this in My

01:47:56.689 --> 01:47:59.210
Little Pony for Dickie. In England, in my little

01:47:59.210 --> 01:48:03.510
pony. In Africa, that was an action hero. But,

01:48:04.149 --> 01:48:09.600
you know, we were programmed to have this. ridiculous

01:48:09.600 --> 01:48:13.420
image of a man be our norm but but and i always

01:48:13.420 --> 01:48:15.619
use as an example if you watch band of brothers

01:48:15.619 --> 01:48:18.359
the true heroes these incredible men that survived

01:48:18.359 --> 01:48:22.840
all the the the the most um in the highest level

01:48:22.840 --> 01:48:24.939
of combat in world war ii all the biggest conflicts

01:48:25.800 --> 01:48:27.699
When you watch the real men talk about it at

01:48:27.699 --> 01:48:29.600
the beginning or the end, they're in tears. They're

01:48:29.600 --> 01:48:32.239
streaming. And that was 67 years prior they're

01:48:32.239 --> 01:48:35.239
talking about. So that's a man. As we both know,

01:48:35.359 --> 01:48:37.840
you can be strong, but you can be vulnerable

01:48:37.840 --> 01:48:40.460
too and accept the fact that a career of death

01:48:40.460 --> 01:48:42.020
and destruction is obviously going to affect

01:48:42.020 --> 01:48:45.380
you. So why do you think it was like the Scott

01:48:45.380 --> 01:48:55.779
Pack? I don't know. You know, you work with people,

01:48:55.819 --> 01:49:04.020
and when no one ever embraces the idea that it's

01:49:04.020 --> 01:49:07.699
out of the norm, you just kind of assume that

01:49:07.699 --> 01:49:11.859
you suck it up, buttercup, and you move on. And

01:49:11.859 --> 01:49:14.119
you look at the people around you, and they seem

01:49:14.119 --> 01:49:20.119
to be normal. So you just, you know, monkey see,

01:49:20.180 --> 01:49:23.800
monkey do. And you carry on in that fashion.

01:49:23.920 --> 01:49:29.659
And that's what you do. Because it doesn't seem

01:49:29.659 --> 01:49:32.500
to bother anybody else. So you surely don't want

01:49:32.500 --> 01:49:34.260
to admit that it could be bothering you in the

01:49:34.260 --> 01:49:36.579
slightest. It seems like firefighters are very,

01:49:36.659 --> 01:49:39.380
and police and probably EMS, we're very good

01:49:39.380 --> 01:49:41.520
at the poker face. Because I hear that from people

01:49:41.520 --> 01:49:43.920
literally all over the world and behind the curtain.

01:49:44.220 --> 01:49:49.619
Yeah, I mean, but it's not just the poker face.

01:49:50.980 --> 01:49:53.560
I mean, some of the most crude humor that we

01:49:53.560 --> 01:49:56.100
come up with is after a very critical incident

01:49:56.100 --> 01:50:02.159
sometimes. I mean, I could think of a few things.

01:50:03.840 --> 01:50:14.960
A guy that I went on before you guys came to

01:50:14.960 --> 01:50:22.710
headquarters, I nicknamed him Cy. and I probably

01:50:22.710 --> 01:50:26.829
told you guys this story, but the Pat Street

01:50:26.829 --> 01:50:30.229
at the 91 used to have a freeway on -ramp right

01:50:30.229 --> 01:50:33.729
there. Before the Lemon Street on -ramp was the

01:50:33.729 --> 01:50:36.949
Lemon Street on -ramp, you got on at Pat. And

01:50:36.949 --> 01:50:39.189
so the trucks would come at a commercial over

01:50:39.189 --> 01:50:44.250
there, north of La Palma, by the AFA office.

01:50:44.529 --> 01:50:47.989
They would come up this long, sweeping on -ramp.

01:50:48.439 --> 01:50:50.640
onto the 91 freeway and they'd enter the freeway

01:50:50.640 --> 01:50:53.779
doing like 15 mile an hour because it was a short

01:50:53.779 --> 01:50:57.279
ramp and one night this guy in the chevy two

01:50:57.279 --> 01:50:59.579
one of those little chevy two blazer four -wheel

01:50:59.579 --> 01:51:02.640
drive vehicles this guy pulls on the freeway

01:51:02.640 --> 01:51:05.020
doing 15 mile an hour and at three in the morning

01:51:05.020 --> 01:51:08.359
he's coming drunk eastbound on the 91 freeway

01:51:08.359 --> 01:51:10.560
doing a hundred mile an hour and he runs into

01:51:10.560 --> 01:51:14.600
the back of this 40 foot trailer tractor unit

01:51:14.600 --> 01:51:18.779
and uh the driver of the truck goes wow the heck

01:51:18.779 --> 01:51:23.699
was that and he pushed the truck so he pulls

01:51:23.699 --> 01:51:27.319
over and he's got this little chevy 2 truck blazer

01:51:27.319 --> 01:51:29.899
stuffed under his dock bumper in the back of

01:51:29.899 --> 01:51:33.899
his trailer and so he calls 9 -1 -1 we come out

01:51:33.899 --> 01:51:40.300
it's a bravo level call same as a like a hangnail

01:51:40.300 --> 01:51:45.619
or yeah so He went from 100 mile an hour down

01:51:45.619 --> 01:51:47.920
to about 15 mile an hour, all in a fraction of

01:51:47.920 --> 01:51:53.420
a second. And I remember pulling up and telling

01:51:53.420 --> 01:51:56.020
the guys, the two fire guys, I said, grab the

01:51:56.020 --> 01:51:57.140
hearse tool because it looks like we're going

01:51:57.140 --> 01:51:59.220
to probably have to extricate this guy. Because,

01:51:59.239 --> 01:52:01.180
I mean, it was like he shoved that whole thing

01:52:01.180 --> 01:52:05.199
in, you know. And I immediately called for the

01:52:05.199 --> 01:52:08.300
medic unit. And I walk up there with my flashlight.

01:52:08.899 --> 01:52:12.850
And I remember this guy looking at me. And he's

01:52:12.850 --> 01:52:16.329
got a steering wheel in his hand. And all the

01:52:16.329 --> 01:52:18.449
classes I ever took said, you can't break that

01:52:18.449 --> 01:52:23.090
knuckle, the adjustable knuckle. Every class

01:52:23.090 --> 01:52:25.289
I ever been to said, it's impossible to break

01:52:25.289 --> 01:52:27.789
that. Well, this guy broke it. He handed me the

01:52:27.789 --> 01:52:31.329
steering wheel. And he looked at me, and his

01:52:31.329 --> 01:52:37.250
one eye was hanging down here. It was hanging

01:52:37.250 --> 01:52:39.800
on his cheek. The optic nerve, the whole nine

01:52:39.800 --> 01:52:42.699
yards. He hit so hard, it blew his eye out of

01:52:42.699 --> 01:52:48.520
his socket. He fractured every bone through his

01:52:48.520 --> 01:52:54.539
arms, his hips, his pelvis, everything. And Mike

01:52:54.539 --> 01:52:56.779
Muse was the paramedic captain at the time. So

01:52:56.779 --> 01:52:59.460
we immediately started extrication, getting this

01:52:59.460 --> 01:53:02.560
guy ready to go. And he kept that, you know,

01:53:02.579 --> 01:53:04.680
of course, he's repetitive, questioning the whole

01:53:04.680 --> 01:53:07.949
nine yards, you know. But I remember... Like

01:53:07.949 --> 01:53:09.689
it was yesterday when he handed me that steering

01:53:09.689 --> 01:53:12.569
wheel. Like, here, I don't need this any longer.

01:53:13.069 --> 01:53:17.010
You know? Yeah, he was like totally drunk. Only

01:53:17.010 --> 01:53:18.649
thing that saved his life was the fact he was

01:53:18.649 --> 01:53:22.329
drunk. Only thing. But he ended up breaking almost

01:53:22.329 --> 01:53:25.470
every bone in his body. He lived at UCI for like

01:53:25.470 --> 01:53:31.430
three months. But I nicknamed him Cy. Why? Cyclops.

01:53:32.210 --> 01:53:35.899
Gotcha. Yeah, but I mean, that's how you deal

01:53:35.899 --> 01:53:38.319
with seeing a guy with one eye hanging out of

01:53:38.319 --> 01:53:40.840
his face. Yeah, and when the guys come up with

01:53:40.840 --> 01:53:44.220
the equipment, I look at them and I said, don't

01:53:44.220 --> 01:53:50.340
stare at him. He's missing one eye. And it was

01:53:50.340 --> 01:53:53.800
obvious that the eye wasn't going to make the

01:53:53.800 --> 01:53:57.880
trip. But it was just, that was his name from

01:53:57.880 --> 01:54:00.220
that point on with Cy. You know what strikes

01:54:00.220 --> 01:54:05.640
me, and I'll give Joe the mic in a second, It

01:54:05.640 --> 01:54:08.640
doesn't matter who I have on the show when it

01:54:08.640 --> 01:54:11.479
comes to those kind of calls. They can recall

01:54:11.479 --> 01:54:15.859
the scene in such detail, the smell, exactly

01:54:15.859 --> 01:54:18.560
what was said, and that is a constant, whether

01:54:18.560 --> 01:54:20.800
you're police, fire, EMS, whether you're a soldier

01:54:20.800 --> 01:54:23.279
out watching your friend get blown up, whether

01:54:23.279 --> 01:54:25.279
you're one of us. I want some of these wrecks.

01:54:25.380 --> 01:54:27.159
I know we won't talk about one that we were all

01:54:27.159 --> 01:54:32.819
on. When people talk about, and recently, politically

01:54:32.819 --> 01:54:39.119
recently, There's been talk of traumatic situations

01:54:39.119 --> 01:54:42.920
with people that were supposedly, possibly, could

01:54:42.920 --> 01:54:46.039
have been, might have been sexually molested

01:54:46.039 --> 01:54:48.979
or raped or whatever. And they say that it's

01:54:48.979 --> 01:54:51.220
a traumatic moment that you don't quite recall

01:54:51.220 --> 01:54:54.300
everything that's going on. And I always immediately

01:54:54.300 --> 01:54:57.960
stop the person and say, no, that's not true.

01:54:58.899 --> 01:55:02.640
If it's a really stressful moment, you will remember

01:55:02.640 --> 01:55:05.869
things. And to this day, I would tell you that

01:55:05.869 --> 01:55:09.750
I remember things about my first fatality. I

01:55:09.750 --> 01:55:14.449
can tell you everything about it with clarity.

01:55:16.109 --> 01:55:19.949
I don't miss a beat on it. I can tell you the

01:55:19.949 --> 01:55:22.149
time of year it was. I can tell you what we had

01:55:22.149 --> 01:55:26.430
for lunch that day. And I can tell you everything

01:55:26.430 --> 01:55:28.750
about that call. I can tell you what caused it.

01:55:29.729 --> 01:55:32.250
I mean, I remember it like it was just yesterday.

01:55:33.069 --> 01:55:35.430
And it's... I will never forget that moment.

01:55:37.229 --> 01:55:40.609
Ever. So when people say that traumatic moments,

01:55:40.670 --> 01:55:44.210
people forget stuff, I say bullshit. That's one

01:55:44.210 --> 01:55:46.630
of the things that, and you see enough of it

01:55:46.630 --> 01:55:51.510
after a while, if you could just forget it, that

01:55:51.510 --> 01:55:55.930
would be such a gift. I liken it to being on

01:55:55.930 --> 01:55:57.649
the hard drive. Once it's on the hard drive,

01:55:57.710 --> 01:56:01.470
it's on the hard drive. Terry talks about...

01:56:02.000 --> 01:56:05.579
this whole thing about you know suck it up buttercup

01:56:05.579 --> 01:56:10.220
but he changed that paradigm a little bit because

01:56:10.220 --> 01:56:12.020
i think you recall an incident where there was

01:56:12.020 --> 01:56:16.100
a pediatric fatality very very very i'm gonna

01:56:16.100 --> 01:56:17.619
actually i'm writing a book right now and that's

01:56:17.619 --> 01:56:19.539
that's one of the chapters did you allow them

01:56:19.539 --> 01:56:26.880
to go terry because i had two young no i um it

01:56:26.880 --> 01:56:30.159
was kind of a traumatic scene and um i wasn't

01:56:30.159 --> 01:56:33.880
even allowed to go No, you didn't go. I didn't

01:56:33.880 --> 01:56:36.939
go. They didn't go. You want to recount the scene?

01:56:37.079 --> 01:56:40.000
You want to tell people the scene? Because it

01:56:40.000 --> 01:56:43.359
was a back story. I actually flashed. I've never

01:56:43.359 --> 01:56:46.600
been triggered or had flashbacks. I was at Disney

01:56:46.600 --> 01:56:49.380
about a year ago. A little kid went by. It was

01:56:49.380 --> 01:56:51.300
super hot, middle of the summer. So they put

01:56:51.300 --> 01:56:53.619
a blanket over his head. And they're just the

01:56:53.619 --> 01:56:56.600
legs and the sneakers hanging out. So I'll set

01:56:56.600 --> 01:57:02.779
you up with that. Well, the scene was. I believe

01:57:02.779 --> 01:57:04.880
it was a weekend. I think it might have been

01:57:04.880 --> 01:57:10.359
a Saturday. We got a, again, a Bravo -level call.

01:57:10.380 --> 01:57:14.739
This is now, we're talking back 12 years ago?

01:57:15.300 --> 01:57:18.939
Longer. No, longer than that. I was brand new.

01:57:18.979 --> 01:57:21.220
I was an engineer. You guys were brand new on

01:57:21.220 --> 01:57:24.960
the job. Yeah. Actually, it was a weekend. I

01:57:24.960 --> 01:57:26.560
think it was a Saturday. It might have been a

01:57:26.560 --> 01:57:30.140
Sunday. Okay, so I can't even remember what I

01:57:30.140 --> 01:57:32.850
had for breakfast yesterday. but I'm going to

01:57:32.850 --> 01:57:35.770
listen to you retell the story perfectly in explicit

01:57:35.770 --> 01:57:37.989
detail, and I know that the three other guys

01:57:37.989 --> 01:57:40.970
at this table remember it exactly the same. Yeah.

01:57:41.050 --> 01:57:49.090
It was like a Tahoe or like a SUV of some sort.

01:57:50.090 --> 01:57:52.989
Dad was asleep in the passenger seat. Mom fell

01:57:52.989 --> 01:57:56.399
asleep on the off -ramp on the way down. And

01:57:56.399 --> 01:57:59.039
there was a baby in a car seat. There was kids.

01:58:00.000 --> 01:58:03.319
Two -year -old. There was a baby in the car seat.

01:58:03.460 --> 01:58:05.079
Three -year -old. And they did actually put it

01:58:05.079 --> 01:58:07.859
on the passenger side of the back seat. Yeah.

01:58:08.199 --> 01:58:14.699
And basically a car full of two adults. And I

01:58:14.699 --> 01:58:21.000
think mom was the only one that came out unscathed.

01:58:21.039 --> 01:58:22.699
Mom was sitting on the curb when we got there.

01:58:22.800 --> 01:58:25.460
Yeah. With her head in her hands crying. The

01:58:25.460 --> 01:58:27.899
boyfriend or the husband, whoever he was, he

01:58:27.899 --> 01:58:33.420
was dead on arrival. The three -year -old in

01:58:33.420 --> 01:58:43.220
the back seat was obviously dead. You know, head

01:58:43.220 --> 01:58:47.220
hit the post, I believe. I don't know what to

01:58:47.220 --> 01:58:50.579
call it, but the massive power poles. yeah this

01:58:50.579 --> 01:58:53.159
thing must have been yeah i don't know the diameter

01:58:53.159 --> 01:58:55.960
must have been it was three feet three feet across

01:58:55.960 --> 01:59:01.760
it wasn't going to move enough it was a it was

01:59:01.760 --> 01:59:06.060
a if if you knew um it was a pole that actually

01:59:06.060 --> 01:59:08.920
handles up to 12 kv which is 12 000 volts on

01:59:08.920 --> 01:59:11.460
a power line and what it does is it transitions

01:59:11.460 --> 01:59:16.140
from above ground to below ground and so The

01:59:16.140 --> 01:59:18.800
wires are all running through the inside of that

01:59:18.800 --> 01:59:20.539
pole all the way down. And then they go under

01:59:20.539 --> 01:59:22.420
the ground to the next pole. And then they come

01:59:22.420 --> 01:59:25.060
back up and go up over again. But they've got

01:59:25.060 --> 01:59:31.939
probably 32 or 40, you know, inch and a half

01:59:31.939 --> 01:59:34.699
nets holding this thing to the ground. It's probably

01:59:34.699 --> 01:59:37.420
got a foundation in it. Who knows how big it

01:59:37.420 --> 01:59:40.920
is. But that car moving at 50 or 60 mile an hour

01:59:40.920 --> 01:59:45.210
didn't put up. Didn't put a scratch on that thing.

01:59:45.310 --> 01:59:48.590
She wrapped the car around that pole. And she

01:59:48.590 --> 01:59:52.909
just dozed off at the wrong time. And she ended

01:59:52.909 --> 01:59:54.909
up killing virtually everybody in the vehicle

01:59:54.909 --> 02:00:00.869
but herself. And at that point, pulled the husband

02:00:00.869 --> 02:00:05.130
out, sent him to the hospital. He was DOA. There

02:00:05.130 --> 02:00:08.430
was a kid in the car seat. The kid in the car

02:00:08.430 --> 02:00:10.850
seat was dead on arrival. Three - or four -year

02:00:10.850 --> 02:00:12.850
-old that was in the back seat was dead on arrival

02:00:12.850 --> 02:00:18.050
as well. And what they did was they said, we'll

02:00:18.050 --> 02:00:20.069
call you back when we want to extricate the kid.

02:00:20.869 --> 02:00:23.529
And the kid was the only one that was still left

02:00:23.529 --> 02:00:26.350
in the car at that point in time in Highway Patrol

02:00:26.350 --> 02:00:30.000
because it was on an off -ramp. The question

02:00:30.000 --> 02:00:32.060
becomes, is it a highway patrol call or is it

02:00:32.060 --> 02:00:34.600
a city of Anaheim call, depending on where they

02:00:34.600 --> 02:00:37.180
left the off -ramp? And because it was on an

02:00:37.180 --> 02:00:39.300
off -ramp, it was actually a highway patrol call.

02:00:39.560 --> 02:00:42.180
So later on in the day, about 3 o 'clock in the

02:00:42.180 --> 02:00:45.180
afternoon, they called us back out to extricate

02:00:45.180 --> 02:00:49.199
the dead body. So I had already made arrangements

02:00:49.199 --> 02:00:54.579
through the MetroNet to send, to page me when

02:00:54.579 --> 02:00:58.340
they wanted us to go out because, you know. It

02:00:58.340 --> 02:01:00.239
was a body recovery. Because it was just a body

02:01:00.239 --> 02:01:02.000
recovery at that point. But it was a messy body

02:01:02.000 --> 02:01:06.439
recovery. And so I told Paul Legacy at the time

02:01:06.439 --> 02:01:09.199
that when they tone us out, that he and I would

02:01:09.199 --> 02:01:10.619
go out and we would just do it by ourselves.

02:01:11.039 --> 02:01:14.420
And I remember it was just that we went back

02:01:14.420 --> 02:01:17.659
to the station and we had, it was a weekend,

02:01:17.840 --> 02:01:20.319
we had brunch. We had breakfast. Late breakfast,

02:01:20.460 --> 02:01:24.119
lunch. It was the usual, the bacon, the scrambled

02:01:24.119 --> 02:01:29.140
eggs, the vegetables, whatever. i remember you

02:01:29.140 --> 02:01:31.880
telling james and i to stay here when we got

02:01:31.880 --> 02:01:34.380
turned out and i remember being pissed about

02:01:34.380 --> 02:01:36.800
it yeah you were because you didn't have reese

02:01:36.800 --> 02:01:39.039
yet and i had ty and he was about two and this

02:01:39.039 --> 02:01:42.159
kid was about three and for me it was like i

02:01:42.159 --> 02:01:44.699
want to prove that we're part of this team and

02:01:44.699 --> 02:01:47.399
we can be assets but at the same time like i

02:01:47.399 --> 02:01:51.140
didn't have kids yet and that was we had already

02:01:51.140 --> 02:01:53.899
seen it i was angry that we weren't including

02:01:53.899 --> 02:01:56.539
it but i could totally see where you were coming

02:01:56.539 --> 02:01:59.550
from in preventing us from having to do that

02:01:59.550 --> 02:02:01.170
because eventually someone's going to have to

02:02:01.170 --> 02:02:03.989
pick that child up and pick the rest of its head

02:02:03.989 --> 02:02:07.609
up and put it on the gurney or the body bag too

02:02:07.609 --> 02:02:11.289
and i'm to this day really happy and really thankful

02:02:11.289 --> 02:02:15.750
that i didn't have to do that terry goes to us

02:02:15.750 --> 02:02:19.409
he says you're just starting your career you're

02:02:19.409 --> 02:02:21.810
going to have enough photos to put in your album

02:02:22.829 --> 02:02:25.069
we're about to retire, we're going to spare you

02:02:25.069 --> 02:02:26.529
this one or something to that effect. You'll

02:02:26.529 --> 02:02:28.529
get to see enough of this, yeah. Yeah, I mean,

02:02:28.550 --> 02:02:31.890
it's just, you know, you don't think about it,

02:02:31.949 --> 02:02:36.550
but, I mean, there's, you know, I don't know

02:02:36.550 --> 02:02:37.970
if my kids are in the other room, they can hear

02:02:37.970 --> 02:02:40.130
me or not, but, I mean, there's countless things

02:02:40.130 --> 02:02:44.409
that you can't, I won't say can't forget, there's

02:02:44.409 --> 02:02:48.210
countless things that you just don't have the

02:02:48.210 --> 02:02:51.090
ability to forget. What's the term that the guy

02:02:51.090 --> 02:02:54.859
from Detroit says? Yeah, I wish my head could

02:02:54.859 --> 02:02:58.560
forget what my eyes have seen. It's true. He

02:02:58.560 --> 02:03:03.180
brings up a good point about the opportunity

02:03:03.180 --> 02:03:07.779
that's going to come throughout our career. We

02:03:07.779 --> 02:03:13.479
all have been on those together. Richard and

02:03:13.479 --> 02:03:18.880
I have been on one in particular that kind of

02:03:18.880 --> 02:03:22.239
pushed us a little bit. So, and it comes and

02:03:22.239 --> 02:03:24.619
it's, and we still have time in our career. It's

02:03:24.619 --> 02:03:28.439
like that having that outlet, the positive outlet

02:03:28.439 --> 02:03:32.060
and positive ways to deal with it are important.

02:03:32.260 --> 02:03:34.659
You talked earlier about the whole sleep deprivation

02:03:34.659 --> 02:03:39.300
and, you know, our call load has gone up tremendously

02:03:39.300 --> 02:03:43.760
with less personnel, you know, people, you know,

02:03:43.760 --> 02:03:45.659
and I could attest to it myself, you know, taking

02:03:45.659 --> 02:03:52.760
energy drinks or. Anything to keep us awake and

02:03:52.760 --> 02:03:56.699
needing sleeping pills on our days off to sleep

02:03:56.699 --> 02:03:59.359
because I can't sleep otherwise when we're at

02:03:59.359 --> 02:04:03.420
the station. It becomes a vicious cycle after

02:04:03.420 --> 02:04:09.159
a while. It really is. Do you feel comfortable

02:04:09.159 --> 02:04:12.220
talking about some of the places that a career

02:04:12.220 --> 02:04:15.920
of this led you to between that and the strain

02:04:15.920 --> 02:04:20.319
on relationships outside of work? Yeah. I mean,

02:04:20.520 --> 02:04:24.619
you know, I have a brother. I come from a family

02:04:24.619 --> 02:04:27.539
of public service. My brother was in law enforcement,

02:04:27.800 --> 02:04:30.600
both of them, as a matter of fact. My older brother

02:04:30.600 --> 02:04:34.800
had to retire at a pretty young age for retirement.

02:04:34.819 --> 02:04:39.880
He had 45 due to health reasons. And his stress

02:04:39.880 --> 02:04:42.899
levels were high. And he said after he retired,

02:04:43.000 --> 02:04:46.819
he went to, you know, multiple funerals for guys

02:04:46.819 --> 02:04:49.199
that he worked with in law enforcement. committed

02:04:49.199 --> 02:04:53.640
suicide or were slowly committing suicide through

02:04:53.640 --> 02:04:59.819
alcohol. And it was that generation of, like

02:04:59.819 --> 02:05:02.739
Terry was saying, suck it up buttercup, you know.

02:05:03.399 --> 02:05:08.180
I got to freshen up. So I understood how that

02:05:08.180 --> 02:05:11.359
went. Now over the course of my career, you know,

02:05:11.359 --> 02:05:14.399
right now I'm going through pretty messy personal.

02:05:15.289 --> 02:05:18.729
issues with divorce and whatnot, and then as

02:05:18.729 --> 02:05:22.289
well as dealing with the stress that comes with

02:05:22.289 --> 02:05:30.109
our career. And I looked at some of these posts

02:05:30.109 --> 02:05:33.750
that other people have put either online or through

02:05:33.750 --> 02:05:41.069
Firefighter. There's a Healing Our Own that's

02:05:41.069 --> 02:05:45.739
with the... California, the State Firefighter

02:05:45.739 --> 02:05:50.399
Association, and you read some of these stories

02:05:50.399 --> 02:05:52.800
and it mimics our own. You're talking about people

02:05:52.800 --> 02:05:55.819
that put on a, quote -unquote, put on a mask,

02:05:56.060 --> 02:05:59.319
that they're always happy when deep down they're

02:05:59.319 --> 02:06:03.640
not. They're dealing with their issues in negative

02:06:03.640 --> 02:06:07.600
ways. They're drinking too much. They're sleep

02:06:07.600 --> 02:06:11.569
deprivation. They're needing to... you know take

02:06:11.569 --> 02:06:14.350
supplements or take medication in order to sleep

02:06:14.350 --> 02:06:17.149
taking things to stay awake and it becomes a

02:06:17.149 --> 02:06:20.390
vicious cycle i don't know i've dealt with it

02:06:20.390 --> 02:06:22.989
and still to this day still have to deal with

02:06:22.989 --> 02:06:27.569
it when you were in firefighter school or fire

02:06:27.569 --> 02:06:31.029
class did anyone ever tell you that there was

02:06:31.029 --> 02:06:32.989
a chance that you would have to deal with this

02:06:32.989 --> 02:06:36.090
or did they tell you any tools that you could

02:06:36.090 --> 02:06:39.859
use To prevent it or help yourself deal with

02:06:39.859 --> 02:06:42.819
it? No. No one ever does. And what year was this

02:06:42.819 --> 02:06:45.560
for you? This was in 98 when I went to the basic

02:06:45.560 --> 02:06:50.359
fire academy. And it's things that we built upon

02:06:50.359 --> 02:06:53.239
because, you know, I look back for when I first

02:06:53.239 --> 02:06:56.260
got a job working in an ambulance. And we have

02:06:56.260 --> 02:06:58.699
these ambulance kids that are young, impressionable

02:06:58.699 --> 02:07:01.560
kids now that are still trying to launch their

02:07:01.560 --> 02:07:04.539
careers as firefighters. And they're seeing stuff.

02:07:05.340 --> 02:07:08.340
Now, before they even begin careers as a firefighter,

02:07:08.359 --> 02:07:11.859
that's going to carry with them the rest of their

02:07:11.859 --> 02:07:16.739
life. And there's not a whole lot that's being

02:07:16.739 --> 02:07:19.300
taught to them on how to manage the stress, how

02:07:19.300 --> 02:07:21.579
to deal with the things they see, who do they

02:07:21.579 --> 02:07:25.340
reach out to, what do they do. With us now, it's

02:07:25.340 --> 02:07:27.640
gotten to a point where it's a positive, where

02:07:27.640 --> 02:07:33.479
we have ways to get the help we need. private

02:07:33.479 --> 02:07:38.359
sector, they don't have that ability for help.

02:07:39.279 --> 02:07:42.359
Or if they do, it's very minimal. So I'm very

02:07:42.359 --> 02:07:48.859
happy that we have that way to get the help that

02:07:48.859 --> 02:07:54.560
we need. And when we got the Counseling Service

02:07:54.560 --> 02:07:58.359
International for our department, I reached out.

02:07:58.930 --> 02:08:00.909
Immediately. Because I knew that I had a lot

02:08:00.909 --> 02:08:02.430
of stressors in my life and there were things

02:08:02.430 --> 02:08:04.229
that I could handle and there were things I needed

02:08:04.229 --> 02:08:07.069
help to handle. And when I went to go see the

02:08:07.069 --> 02:08:10.250
counselor, she basically said that she could

02:08:10.250 --> 02:08:15.630
have made a career just dealing with fire. Just

02:08:15.630 --> 02:08:17.850
with the amount of people that she's seen coming

02:08:17.850 --> 02:08:21.970
from our agency. And saying that we're not a

02:08:21.970 --> 02:08:24.170
very large agency. We're a good size. Eleven

02:08:24.170 --> 02:08:26.890
stations. Yeah. And there was that many people

02:08:26.890 --> 02:08:30.340
in need of... of help. Would you remember when

02:08:30.340 --> 02:08:33.260
you called me and you read, was it, was it the

02:08:33.260 --> 02:08:35.680
thing that I wrote or was it, it was a video.

02:08:35.819 --> 02:08:39.260
It was the BTS. Yeah. So just to, just for everyone

02:08:39.260 --> 02:08:43.960
listening, I was at, uh, chief Matt Negley's

02:08:43.960 --> 02:08:47.399
funeral. He was an Orlando chief, hugely respected,

02:08:47.520 --> 02:08:50.399
went to all the firehouse stuff, started the

02:08:50.399 --> 02:08:53.180
Orlando fire conference was just the, the firefighters,

02:08:53.319 --> 02:08:55.079
firefighter, you know, the chief chief as it

02:08:55.079 --> 02:08:58.899
were. And, you know, he, he took his own life

02:08:58.899 --> 02:09:01.819
and i was just getting ready to walk in to that

02:09:01.819 --> 02:09:05.000
church is when you call me and i'd done that

02:09:05.000 --> 02:09:07.699
video and the the dark side project and you know

02:09:07.699 --> 02:09:11.199
written some some blogs but that was like a wizard

02:09:11.199 --> 02:09:13.859
of oz moment because when i put that out there

02:09:13.859 --> 02:09:17.159
all of a sudden i look behind the curtain i'm

02:09:17.159 --> 02:09:22.500
like holy it's not one guy or another it's everyone

02:09:22.500 --> 02:09:24.619
and we and the only difference is we all have

02:09:24.619 --> 02:09:27.220
that but If you're going through divorce, if

02:09:27.220 --> 02:09:28.579
you're sleep deprived, if you get a mandatory

02:09:28.579 --> 02:09:32.539
all the time, if you lost a child, whatever it

02:09:32.539 --> 02:09:35.640
is, you had childhood trauma coming into the

02:09:35.640 --> 02:09:38.640
career, then your basket's overflowing. I was

02:09:38.640 --> 02:09:41.800
blessed with the fact that I had a freaking pretty

02:09:41.800 --> 02:09:44.600
amazing childhood. I went through divorce and

02:09:44.600 --> 02:09:45.840
through medical school. That was definitely my

02:09:45.840 --> 02:09:50.960
lowest time. But I was given the tools just purely

02:09:50.960 --> 02:09:55.460
by chance to be able to deal with it. I can't

02:09:55.460 --> 02:09:57.079
tell you how many phone calls I got, how many

02:09:57.079 --> 02:09:59.079
messages, how many emails, how many, you know,

02:09:59.079 --> 02:10:02.380
texts, whatever it was. And I realized it doesn't

02:10:02.380 --> 02:10:04.539
matter if you're Joe. I mean, you know, here

02:10:04.539 --> 02:10:07.199
you are looking at me, you know, I mean, just

02:10:07.199 --> 02:10:10.800
a muscular, tattooed, shaved head, you know,

02:10:10.800 --> 02:10:15.659
alpha male as I put out. Or if you're a 90 pound,

02:10:15.880 --> 02:10:21.079
you know, very gently spoken woman. If we're

02:10:21.079 --> 02:10:26.659
doing this job, I didn't say 92 pounds, did I?

02:10:28.199 --> 02:10:32.520
Fruitcake. But, you know, regardless, it affects

02:10:32.520 --> 02:10:35.239
all of us. Just some of us have the right coping

02:10:35.239 --> 02:10:37.380
mechanism. Some of us have great families that

02:10:37.380 --> 02:10:39.140
have long, long marriages where they're still

02:10:39.140 --> 02:10:41.539
there. All our kids are healthy. But there is

02:10:41.539 --> 02:10:43.720
no escaping this. And every single one around

02:10:43.720 --> 02:10:46.039
this table just described scenes that we were

02:10:46.039 --> 02:10:51.539
on to the fucking T. On a personal note, you

02:10:51.539 --> 02:10:53.439
know, when all this started coming up, I was

02:10:53.439 --> 02:10:57.760
kind of going through a lot of personal issues

02:10:57.760 --> 02:11:02.939
at the time. And he and I were on the same incident.

02:11:03.180 --> 02:11:06.619
I was going to say, I think you and I hit. rock

02:11:06.619 --> 02:11:10.600
bottom at just about the same time yeah and i'll

02:11:10.600 --> 02:11:13.000
let you do i'll let joe describe the call but

02:11:13.000 --> 02:11:14.960
i knew it was a problem for joe and i knew it

02:11:14.960 --> 02:11:17.720
was a problem for me when i got back from the

02:11:17.720 --> 02:11:20.399
call and all i could smell was burning flesh

02:11:20.399 --> 02:11:22.579
stuck in my nose because i've been breathing

02:11:22.579 --> 02:11:26.600
it for so long um and i went to the bathroom

02:11:26.600 --> 02:11:30.079
to go and puke and on the way there i see joe

02:11:30.079 --> 02:11:32.600
walking out wiping his mouth and he just told

02:11:32.600 --> 02:11:35.220
me he had puked i'm like okay fuck i'm not alone

02:11:35.949 --> 02:11:38.689
I feel like a snowflake right now. I feel horrible.

02:11:39.130 --> 02:11:42.630
And I almost felt guilty for feeling that way.

02:11:42.810 --> 02:11:45.829
But at the same time, the last part of that year,

02:11:45.989 --> 02:11:51.170
I think we pulled five mangled or burnt bodies

02:11:51.170 --> 02:11:53.029
out of cars that we cut them out. And it was

02:11:53.029 --> 02:11:56.369
just before I had used surfing and the ocean

02:11:56.369 --> 02:12:00.630
and paddling and working out and exercise as

02:12:00.630 --> 02:12:03.909
a coping mechanism, but it wasn't working anymore.

02:12:04.189 --> 02:12:06.680
The thing was, go. Talk about the call, Joe.

02:12:07.039 --> 02:12:10.199
Well, the call was working at Station 3, and

02:12:10.199 --> 02:12:16.000
we had a call for a vehicle fire. Well, as it

02:12:16.000 --> 02:12:19.659
normally goes, it's a low -level call, and as

02:12:19.659 --> 02:12:24.539
we approach the scene, it upgrades. So what it

02:12:24.539 --> 02:12:28.399
was was two vehicles street racing. One vehicle

02:12:28.399 --> 02:12:33.010
lost control, hit a pole, took out a pole. Hit

02:12:33.010 --> 02:12:35.529
a wall, caught fire. And snapped that pole out

02:12:35.529 --> 02:12:36.989
of the ground like it was a toothpick. Yeah.

02:12:37.149 --> 02:12:42.210
And it was a compact car. And one person got

02:12:42.210 --> 02:12:46.470
out, was able to get out. Two people were burned

02:12:46.470 --> 02:12:49.010
beyond recognition in the vehicle. So we show

02:12:49.010 --> 02:12:53.430
up on scene and, you know, we're there for quite

02:12:53.430 --> 02:12:55.090
a while. I think much longer than we probably

02:12:55.090 --> 02:12:58.029
needed to be once the incident was stabilized.

02:12:59.210 --> 02:13:01.789
It was out of our first inn because, and it was

02:13:01.789 --> 02:13:03.850
at nighttime, and it was right before Christmas.

02:13:04.529 --> 02:13:07.789
And my thoughts going through my head, these

02:13:07.789 --> 02:13:10.850
were younger kids, you know, street racing, being

02:13:10.850 --> 02:13:14.069
dumb. And a family's going to get a call, knock

02:13:14.069 --> 02:13:17.229
on their door at tonight and let them know that

02:13:17.229 --> 02:13:21.369
their loved one has passed. They look like mannequins.

02:13:22.029 --> 02:13:25.390
There's no recognizable features of a human being

02:13:25.390 --> 02:13:28.989
in there, but the stench and the burn. Initially,

02:13:28.989 --> 02:13:31.710
we saw this, the first one, and then they're

02:13:31.710 --> 02:13:34.289
poking around overhauling the vehicle, and then

02:13:34.289 --> 02:13:37.250
they find the second one underneath on the floor.

02:13:37.529 --> 02:13:40.270
The second one was trying to crawl out of the

02:13:40.270 --> 02:13:42.390
car and eventually succumb to the flames and

02:13:42.390 --> 02:13:45.729
his injuries and died trying to escape, crawling

02:13:45.729 --> 02:13:48.850
out. The driver was stuck in the car and died

02:13:48.850 --> 02:13:53.569
in the driver's seat. But even if you put so

02:13:53.569 --> 02:13:55.069
much water on it, you might have to fire out.

02:13:56.439 --> 02:13:59.220
he had melted into the seat the seat was gone

02:13:59.220 --> 02:14:03.100
yeah there was but he was stuck in the wiring

02:14:03.100 --> 02:14:06.100
and the mesh from the seat and underneath him

02:14:06.100 --> 02:14:08.380
there was still some foam and that was smoldering

02:14:08.380 --> 02:14:11.079
but he was smoldering too and the whole time

02:14:11.079 --> 02:14:13.600
we're trying to overhaul this and figure out

02:14:13.600 --> 02:14:17.260
what we're going to do with it um he's still

02:14:17.260 --> 02:14:21.859
smoldering and we had the stench of burning human

02:14:21.859 --> 02:14:27.420
flesh in our gear In our lungs, in our mouth,

02:14:27.460 --> 02:14:30.180
in our nose, in your hair. And you go back to

02:14:30.180 --> 02:14:32.359
the station and you shower and it's still there.

02:14:33.619 --> 02:14:37.779
And that doesn't go away. But at the end of the

02:14:37.779 --> 02:14:40.899
incident, before we break loose, the chief says,

02:14:41.060 --> 02:14:44.579
is everybody okay? And we talk about the whole,

02:14:44.739 --> 02:14:46.479
no one wants to be the first one to step up.

02:14:46.640 --> 02:14:49.439
And that was the battalion chief who was working.

02:14:50.680 --> 02:14:53.039
Jeff Thomas. It was Jeff Thomas, and he called

02:14:53.039 --> 02:14:57.260
everyone around, and on a call like this, he

02:14:57.260 --> 02:15:00.699
did a good job by calling everyone around and

02:15:00.699 --> 02:15:02.539
saying, is everyone okay? Is everyone good with

02:15:02.539 --> 02:15:06.220
this? This is horrible. And what did we all say?

02:15:06.359 --> 02:15:09.319
We always say, I'm fine. It's not the first time.

02:15:09.340 --> 02:15:11.460
It won't be the last. It's not my fault. I didn't

02:15:11.460 --> 02:15:15.380
do this. We're all good. We all said it. So I

02:15:15.380 --> 02:15:17.939
went back to the station. I was really going

02:15:17.939 --> 02:15:22.920
through tough times. We got off that. We ran

02:15:22.920 --> 02:15:24.739
into each other, both of us tossing and turning

02:15:24.739 --> 02:15:27.340
the rest of the night. I didn't sleep a wink.

02:15:27.579 --> 02:15:32.560
You probably didn't either. Nothing. And got

02:15:32.560 --> 02:15:35.220
up the next morning. I was supposed to volunteer

02:15:35.220 --> 02:15:39.000
at Disney doing the toy drive. I bombed out on

02:15:39.000 --> 02:15:43.479
that. And then I just took off. I just disappeared

02:15:43.479 --> 02:15:47.960
from everybody for the full day. And I was out

02:15:47.960 --> 02:15:50.449
of the... quote -unquote, out -of -fucks -to

02:15:50.449 --> 02:15:54.130
-give mode. It was a mental mess, emotional mess.

02:15:56.170 --> 02:15:57.989
Then the same, like, I wasn't going to harm myself,

02:15:58.109 --> 02:15:59.890
but I was at a point where I was like, I didn't

02:15:59.890 --> 02:16:02.470
really give a shit. I remember you telling me

02:16:02.470 --> 02:16:04.390
that, and that scared me. And everything was,

02:16:04.470 --> 02:16:07.090
like, circling the drain. I was like, well, fuck

02:16:07.090 --> 02:16:09.529
it. If something could happen, it wouldn't matter,

02:16:09.609 --> 02:16:13.890
type of point. Finally got my, even my brother,

02:16:13.989 --> 02:16:15.310
who was a police officer, was worried about me,

02:16:15.430 --> 02:16:17.489
and they were looking for me. They knew I had.

02:16:18.300 --> 02:16:21.979
guns in my house, you know, they were like, something's

02:16:21.979 --> 02:16:25.220
going to happen. I was able to get myself centered

02:16:25.220 --> 02:16:28.579
again. I reached out to the BC, told him, hey,

02:16:28.720 --> 02:16:33.120
that call, I'm not okay. I need to get it off

02:16:33.120 --> 02:16:36.079
my chest and talk about it. Not knowing that,

02:16:36.159 --> 02:16:39.879
you know, what was going through his mind as

02:16:39.879 --> 02:16:45.200
well. And this BC had lost a loved one recently

02:16:45.200 --> 02:16:52.600
too. and, you know, he was very understanding.

02:16:52.860 --> 02:16:56.319
Next day, we had something set up, and they called

02:16:56.319 --> 02:16:59.219
everybody in, and the whole thing about the critical

02:16:59.219 --> 02:17:01.360
incident stress debriefing, people could talk

02:17:01.360 --> 02:17:06.000
about it, and they'll say, yeah, it's, you know,

02:17:06.000 --> 02:17:07.379
we don't need that. Same shit again. It's not

02:17:07.379 --> 02:17:09.479
my fault. It's not my problem. But when they

02:17:09.479 --> 02:17:12.379
get done with it, all of it, everybody has something

02:17:12.379 --> 02:17:14.860
positive to say. They get something off their

02:17:14.860 --> 02:17:20.309
chest. senior guy to the brand new rookie. And

02:17:20.309 --> 02:17:23.170
I was able to get a lot of stuff off my chest.

02:17:25.909 --> 02:17:29.809
And then saw his reaction. So yeah, this winter,

02:17:29.909 --> 02:17:32.290
there were, what, 15, 20 people at the table

02:17:32.290 --> 02:17:34.030
there? Everyone involved in that call? And it

02:17:34.030 --> 02:17:36.709
went multi -unit response because it was... It

02:17:36.709 --> 02:17:38.450
was a heavy call. It came in as a structure fire

02:17:38.450 --> 02:17:40.750
and a vehicle accident and a heavy, you know,

02:17:40.750 --> 02:17:43.629
heavy rescue. There were a lot of resources on

02:17:43.629 --> 02:17:46.579
there. And we sat around this big table and it

02:17:46.579 --> 02:17:48.920
was a usual critical incident stress debriefing.

02:17:50.459 --> 02:17:53.340
It needed to happen. It did happen in a timely

02:17:53.340 --> 02:17:56.780
fashion. But it was the same old one where everyone

02:17:56.780 --> 02:17:59.139
just said, oh, it's not a big deal and I've seen

02:17:59.139 --> 02:18:03.440
enough of him. It doesn't affect me. And I think

02:18:03.440 --> 02:18:09.579
that call for me was the last straw. I was angry

02:18:09.579 --> 02:18:13.379
coming to work knowing that there was a... chance

02:18:13.379 --> 02:18:15.860
that i was going to see it or have to deal with

02:18:15.860 --> 02:18:18.020
it or pick up body parts or smell that smell

02:18:18.020 --> 02:18:22.180
or listen to the screams and you know i listened

02:18:22.180 --> 02:18:25.120
to everyone go around and then it was my turn

02:18:25.120 --> 02:18:26.879
to say because we would say like what did you

02:18:26.879 --> 02:18:30.420
guys what did you do and how did that help because

02:18:30.420 --> 02:18:32.260
you've done something better or different and

02:18:32.260 --> 02:18:35.639
how did you feel and i just said look i'm not

02:18:35.639 --> 02:18:39.739
okay and i stood up And in front of a group of

02:18:39.739 --> 02:18:41.899
about 16 to 20 of the guys that I work with and

02:18:41.899 --> 02:18:43.959
I respect, I started crying. And I said, I don't

02:18:43.959 --> 02:18:47.340
like this job anymore. I'm tired of seeing this.

02:18:47.680 --> 02:18:50.659
I wanted to help people. And all I'm doing is

02:18:50.659 --> 02:18:53.459
seeing people that are so messed up that they

02:18:53.459 --> 02:18:57.040
are so beyond help. And there's nothing I can

02:18:57.040 --> 02:19:00.399
do about it. And it was really affecting me.

02:19:00.440 --> 02:19:02.399
But the lead up to that was me not sleeping.

02:19:05.299 --> 02:19:07.020
eventually in the early hours of the morning

02:19:07.020 --> 02:19:10.879
i would fall asleep and i would have nightmares

02:19:10.879 --> 02:19:15.239
and it was the scenes of other emergency or scenes

02:19:15.239 --> 02:19:19.739
just total disasters we've been on except the

02:19:19.739 --> 02:19:22.219
victims that were there before were now replaced

02:19:22.219 --> 02:19:25.319
with people that i cared about and loved and

02:19:25.319 --> 02:19:28.379
once you have a dream like that there's no going

02:19:28.379 --> 02:19:32.180
back to sleep the adrenaline and anger and a

02:19:32.180 --> 02:19:36.409
confusion and being scared and as you don't sleep

02:19:36.409 --> 02:19:39.670
so i would go days without a decent night's sleep

02:19:39.670 --> 02:19:42.270
and then be at work and being worked there and

02:19:42.270 --> 02:19:44.250
then you know your sleep pattern is messed up

02:19:44.250 --> 02:19:46.209
from there too and it just got to the point where

02:19:46.209 --> 02:19:49.809
i was on edge and you become like the fun hater

02:19:49.809 --> 02:19:52.829
and hyper vigilant like would not let my kid

02:19:52.829 --> 02:19:55.549
anywhere near a bicycle without a helmet or a

02:19:55.549 --> 02:19:57.329
skateboard without a helmet. And like, what are

02:19:57.329 --> 02:19:59.370
you crazy? You have to stay up on the pavement

02:19:59.370 --> 02:20:00.809
and you can't go on the street because you see

02:20:00.809 --> 02:20:03.489
the consequences of bad decisions and just accidents

02:20:03.489 --> 02:20:07.450
and mistakes. And yeah, how can you live with

02:20:07.450 --> 02:20:09.149
yourself if you let that happen to your kid or

02:20:09.149 --> 02:20:13.889
someone you care about? And it just became too

02:20:13.889 --> 02:20:16.510
much. And something came over me and I stood

02:20:16.510 --> 02:20:18.069
up and I said, yeah, I got a problem with this.

02:20:18.350 --> 02:20:21.389
I don't like coming to work anymore. i hate this

02:20:21.389 --> 02:20:24.270
job and then i said it and i'm like fuck i do

02:20:24.270 --> 02:20:26.889
hate it and then i was really upset that i had

02:20:26.889 --> 02:20:28.649
it because it's all i ever wanted since i was

02:20:28.649 --> 02:20:34.629
a little kid and i don't know that was it was

02:20:34.629 --> 02:20:37.729
hard for me but it made it better for me knowing

02:20:37.729 --> 02:20:39.850
that joe who i'd known for so long and this is

02:20:39.850 --> 02:20:42.270
the biggest strongest human that i've ever met

02:20:42.270 --> 02:20:45.510
and i knew he was dealing with the same thing

02:20:45.510 --> 02:20:47.829
so i'm like you know what if the two of us sitting

02:20:47.829 --> 02:20:51.829
next to one another are honest about it and we

02:20:51.829 --> 02:20:53.469
know that it's going on and we can acknowledge

02:20:53.469 --> 02:20:57.229
it i know there's other people in this room and

02:20:57.229 --> 02:20:59.590
i was really i'm hogging this whole conversation

02:20:59.590 --> 02:21:02.309
here um you have the mic as long as you need

02:21:02.309 --> 02:21:06.290
it i was really lucky that in the sense that

02:21:06.290 --> 02:21:09.270
we had i think rick cheatham was there he's the

02:21:09.270 --> 02:21:13.370
uh president of our association or union and

02:21:13.370 --> 02:21:17.170
rick has two and he called a fire chief and you

02:21:17.170 --> 02:21:19.829
know the chief said hey put him off he's off

02:21:19.829 --> 02:21:24.069
of work um and that was a real blessing but for

02:21:24.069 --> 02:21:27.829
me it was like i really appreciate it but this

02:21:27.829 --> 02:21:29.790
didn't happen overnight and a couple shifts off

02:21:29.790 --> 02:21:32.329
of work isn't gonna fix it like i need to fix

02:21:32.329 --> 02:21:34.809
myself i need to find a way to deal with this

02:21:34.809 --> 02:21:38.250
before you know the alcohol abuse and everything

02:21:38.250 --> 02:21:40.829
else that comes along with the post -traumatic

02:21:40.829 --> 02:21:43.940
stress and i don't think it's just is just you're

02:21:43.940 --> 02:21:46.319
in a stressful situation and it's afterwards

02:21:46.319 --> 02:21:48.639
and you still have stress. It's post -traumatic

02:21:48.639 --> 02:21:51.959
stress. I think when you say disorder, a lot

02:21:51.959 --> 02:21:55.319
of people start getting a little spooked by it.

02:21:57.200 --> 02:22:00.020
So I didn't know what was going to happen. I

02:22:00.020 --> 02:22:03.239
think also our department didn't quite know what

02:22:03.239 --> 02:22:05.579
to do, but I think they did a great job in handling

02:22:05.579 --> 02:22:10.959
it. I was off work for quite a while, a couple

02:22:10.959 --> 02:22:13.520
of months. Went to do some therapy. And I think

02:22:13.520 --> 02:22:18.319
the hardest thing to do was to talk about it.

02:22:18.340 --> 02:22:21.280
Because I was sitting across the room with some

02:22:21.280 --> 02:22:24.379
lady who at first I hated. And I told her afterwards,

02:22:24.479 --> 02:22:27.639
I hated her. She made me so mad and frustrated.

02:22:28.360 --> 02:22:32.040
And by the end of... You shouldn't talk about

02:22:32.040 --> 02:22:35.280
Melissa that way. I wasn't Melissa. I was a therapist.

02:22:38.239 --> 02:22:40.659
But... By the end of it, I'll tell her to this

02:22:40.659 --> 02:22:44.020
day, like if you need an organ or blood, you

02:22:44.020 --> 02:22:49.120
give me a call because I owe you. Yeah, she was

02:22:49.120 --> 02:22:52.299
amazing. But in the beginning. Why was she amazing?

02:22:55.139 --> 02:22:57.819
Because she listened. I'm curious. Terry, it

02:22:57.819 --> 02:22:59.860
was the hardest thing because I'm thinking here's

02:22:59.860 --> 02:23:04.340
some woman who has no idea what I've seen or

02:23:04.340 --> 02:23:07.379
what we've been through or no understanding of

02:23:07.379 --> 02:23:10.629
the job. And for me, that was a big sticking

02:23:10.629 --> 02:23:16.250
point. And I was so guarded coming into it that

02:23:16.250 --> 02:23:19.409
it was just hard to talk about. And I would have

02:23:19.409 --> 02:23:22.190
way rather have spoken to anyone else, probably

02:23:22.190 --> 02:23:25.129
a guy, because you don't want to seem like a

02:23:25.129 --> 02:23:27.389
snowflake or a Froot Loop. You just want to be

02:23:27.389 --> 02:23:31.370
like, this is an alpha male type job. Bulletproof.

02:23:31.829 --> 02:23:33.690
Bulletproof. There you go. And I wasn't. And

02:23:33.690 --> 02:23:37.299
I felt pathetic. And it was hard because, you

02:23:37.299 --> 02:23:39.600
know, I have a son that looks up to me and a

02:23:39.600 --> 02:23:41.780
family that you have to be the big protector

02:23:41.780 --> 02:23:45.920
and provider for. And here I feel like this little

02:23:45.920 --> 02:23:52.399
sissy. And I was angry at myself mainly. But

02:23:52.399 --> 02:23:56.120
she listened and she listened some more. And

02:23:56.120 --> 02:23:59.280
then she asked me questions which I did not want

02:23:59.280 --> 02:24:00.799
to answer because I would have to think about

02:24:00.799 --> 02:24:03.100
it. And they were difficult questions. And I

02:24:03.100 --> 02:24:07.829
think that's why I hated her. um but in the end

02:24:07.829 --> 02:24:12.649
i mean this took six months worth and by the

02:24:12.649 --> 02:24:18.190
end like if i don't know i owe a whole lot so

02:24:18.190 --> 02:24:21.549
it took a while just to interject so anaheim

02:24:21.549 --> 02:24:24.750
actually gave you the paid time off so you could

02:24:24.750 --> 02:24:28.260
actually work through this issue they did Okay.

02:24:28.440 --> 02:24:30.840
Well, kudos to Anaheim because it's very, very

02:24:30.840 --> 02:24:33.340
afraid as to what was going to happen and like,

02:24:33.440 --> 02:24:35.620
well, can he come back to work? And it was one

02:24:35.620 --> 02:24:38.819
of those, obviously they have to do a whole lot

02:24:38.819 --> 02:24:41.940
of testing. And I was warned beforehand, like

02:24:41.940 --> 02:24:44.920
they have to make sure that, you know, you have

02:24:44.920 --> 02:24:46.979
to get a reading of where you are in this whole,

02:24:47.079 --> 02:24:50.500
how far gone you are. And for me, it was like,

02:24:50.540 --> 02:24:52.700
I'm not going to kill myself. I don't want to,

02:24:52.719 --> 02:24:56.059
I haven't thought about it yet, but. I'm self

02:24:56.059 --> 02:24:58.420
-aware enough to know that this has become a

02:24:58.420 --> 02:25:00.399
problem and I don't want to let it get that far.

02:25:01.780 --> 02:25:06.159
But I did get the help I needed and the department

02:25:06.159 --> 02:25:10.239
was amazing in it. And I don't think that there

02:25:10.239 --> 02:25:13.319
was, to my knowledge, something like that before.

02:25:14.399 --> 02:25:18.700
But since coming back to work, I can tell you

02:25:18.700 --> 02:25:22.219
about once, even before then it was more. Once,

02:25:22.280 --> 02:25:24.360
twice a month, I would get phone calls from guys

02:25:24.360 --> 02:25:27.579
we work with. Hey, what do I do? Who do I talk

02:25:27.579 --> 02:25:31.340
to? What's going to happen? And that's why I'm

02:25:31.340 --> 02:25:34.319
talking about this now. If you hide away from

02:25:34.319 --> 02:25:37.159
it and pretend like it's not an issue, it's not

02:25:37.159 --> 02:25:40.719
going to get any better. Some of the tools, like

02:25:40.719 --> 02:25:45.760
with me, I was in a different situation where

02:25:45.760 --> 02:25:49.659
when you talk about the tribe, you know, my tribe

02:25:49.659 --> 02:25:53.930
now. going through the personal issues I was

02:25:53.930 --> 02:25:57.409
going through, my tribe now was my brothers at

02:25:57.409 --> 02:26:01.809
work. So being off of work. Yes, you get off

02:26:01.809 --> 02:26:03.770
of work and you're separated from your tribe

02:26:03.770 --> 02:26:05.870
and then you feel even more alone. Yeah, and

02:26:05.870 --> 02:26:09.069
I needed to be at work. Even though work was

02:26:09.069 --> 02:26:13.229
a component of, or provided it had a component

02:26:13.229 --> 02:26:15.209
of why I was going through some of the things,

02:26:15.370 --> 02:26:19.469
it balanced me out to be around my brothers.

02:26:19.950 --> 02:26:24.030
My family, you know, being around them, having

02:26:24.030 --> 02:26:29.829
a purpose made things easier. Even though there

02:26:29.829 --> 02:26:32.389
was a chance to come across things that I don't

02:26:32.389 --> 02:26:37.149
want to see at this time, you know, I had a purpose.

02:26:37.229 --> 02:26:43.549
I had support and I needed to be at work. You

02:26:43.549 --> 02:26:46.670
know, if I think if I would have been off of

02:26:46.670 --> 02:26:49.659
work, I would have me personally. I would have

02:26:49.659 --> 02:26:53.420
had a much tougher time dealing with it because

02:26:53.420 --> 02:27:00.040
I was more alone outside. I just had a chat with

02:27:00.040 --> 02:27:04.579
Kev Stewart and I asked him, when you promoted,

02:27:04.799 --> 02:27:08.299
did you feel that strain of being taken from

02:27:08.299 --> 02:27:10.899
the tribe because you were part of that rig and

02:27:10.899 --> 02:27:13.180
now you're in that office? And that's something

02:27:13.180 --> 02:27:16.420
I've observed because we had a lot of self -harm

02:27:16.420 --> 02:27:18.989
from the chief position. so you're not hurt you're

02:27:18.989 --> 02:27:20.750
not retired but you're taken from the tribe in

02:27:20.750 --> 02:27:22.709
that way and he was like yeah you know i felt

02:27:22.709 --> 02:27:26.149
that so that tribe is so important you know and

02:27:26.149 --> 02:27:28.049
i think that's the thing is if you are off and

02:27:28.049 --> 02:27:31.370
hit the microphone and if you are off it's so

02:27:31.370 --> 02:27:35.250
important to keep reaching out to the guys that

02:27:35.250 --> 02:27:37.069
are off whether it's a back injury or what we're

02:27:37.069 --> 02:27:39.709
talking about now because i know a lot of people

02:27:39.709 --> 02:27:42.409
that have you know let's just say it's just a

02:27:42.409 --> 02:27:46.190
you know broke their ankle whatever Even that,

02:27:46.270 --> 02:27:49.129
when they're taken from that tribe, that's when

02:27:49.129 --> 02:27:52.190
the mental side hits. It's funny you say that

02:27:52.190 --> 02:27:55.489
because I've been asked a couple times by people.

02:27:56.069 --> 02:27:58.569
I was a captain for like 25 years and they said,

02:27:58.590 --> 02:28:02.229
didn't you ever want to be a BC? And I always

02:28:02.229 --> 02:28:06.290
say the same thing. When you go that route, you

02:28:06.290 --> 02:28:10.489
are no longer one of the guys. You become management.

02:28:11.590 --> 02:28:14.709
You're no longer in the family any longer. And

02:28:14.709 --> 02:28:17.670
that's the way I was always told. And when you

02:28:17.670 --> 02:28:20.350
watch guys, when they do promote to that position,

02:28:20.549 --> 02:28:26.629
eventually the majority of them will change who

02:28:26.629 --> 02:28:30.610
they are. And it was always not an acceptable

02:28:30.610 --> 02:28:36.629
change. I would be giving up way more than I

02:28:36.629 --> 02:28:39.750
could ever have financially to even consider

02:28:39.750 --> 02:28:44.350
that. Not that I was desirable for them. or palatable

02:28:44.350 --> 02:28:52.049
for them, but the idea of being separated from

02:28:52.049 --> 02:28:57.030
who I really cared about made it a non -starter.

02:28:58.969 --> 02:29:01.950
I never considered it that way when you talk

02:29:01.950 --> 02:29:07.709
about tribe, but it was never an option. It's

02:29:07.709 --> 02:29:10.549
a thing. And it's heartbreaking because we're

02:29:10.549 --> 02:29:13.889
sitting here now and... as i've said before at

02:29:13.889 --> 02:29:16.489
the beginning these this is my favorite crew

02:29:16.489 --> 02:29:18.809
and no disrespect to anyone else i've worked

02:29:18.809 --> 02:29:23.670
with but this was to me the epitome of what that

02:29:23.670 --> 02:29:25.870
brotherhood or sisterhood if you've got you know

02:29:25.870 --> 02:29:29.069
women in your crew but that cohesive yeah i mean

02:29:29.069 --> 02:29:32.270
we had dickie so um i mean i don't know if hermaphrodite

02:29:32.270 --> 02:29:37.069
technically is a sister but it counts but um

02:29:37.069 --> 02:29:39.809
gender neutral but yeah and then to see these

02:29:39.809 --> 02:29:43.559
people that you adore That we trained together

02:29:43.559 --> 02:29:46.319
cooked together ate together. You know saw a

02:29:46.319 --> 02:29:49.459
horrible shit together Going through such pain

02:29:49.459 --> 02:29:53.059
and knowing that it's not weakness. It's just

02:29:53.059 --> 02:29:57.780
what we signed up to do that's that's where this

02:29:57.780 --> 02:30:01.440
project comes from that's where my desire to

02:30:01.440 --> 02:30:05.340
fix some areas that we can fix because you know

02:30:05.340 --> 02:30:07.920
this this is what people need to understand this

02:30:07.920 --> 02:30:09.659
is the way it is and there's some areas we can

02:30:09.659 --> 02:30:12.180
definitely minimize the impact but this is when

02:30:12.180 --> 02:30:14.219
we talk about sacrifice thank you for your service

02:30:14.219 --> 02:30:16.680
this is what we talk about being away from your

02:30:16.680 --> 02:30:19.180
family carrying these memories the rest of your

02:30:19.180 --> 02:30:25.940
career yeah when i talk to people that say you

02:30:25.940 --> 02:30:28.600
know the typical stuff well you know you guys

02:30:28.600 --> 02:30:31.819
have a great retirement system i hear that one

02:30:31.819 --> 02:30:37.790
quite frequently I never identified myself as

02:30:37.790 --> 02:30:41.549
a retired fireman. I now call myself a contractor.

02:30:43.030 --> 02:30:46.329
But when I do have conversations with people,

02:30:46.489 --> 02:30:50.450
I always kind of figure out a way to get into

02:30:50.450 --> 02:30:53.870
the conversation that, you know, you'd need to

02:30:53.870 --> 02:30:56.770
be careful what we wish for because there's certain

02:30:56.770 --> 02:31:01.430
things you can't get rid of. And they, you know.

02:31:03.200 --> 02:31:05.100
Without being too graphic about it, how would

02:31:05.100 --> 02:31:07.940
you feel about this, you know, this situation?

02:31:08.219 --> 02:31:10.979
Is this something you're comfortable with? And

02:31:10.979 --> 02:31:14.840
no one ever considers that portion. When I became

02:31:14.840 --> 02:31:17.819
a fireman, I never considered it. So how can

02:31:17.819 --> 02:31:21.899
I expect somebody on the outside that knows nothing

02:31:21.899 --> 02:31:27.280
about the fire service to understand what comes

02:31:27.280 --> 02:31:33.600
with the territory? They can't. If I didn't expect

02:31:33.600 --> 02:31:37.040
it, why should I expect Joe Bloat to accept it?

02:31:37.139 --> 02:31:41.680
Why should I expect anybody at HR to understand?

02:31:43.739 --> 02:31:45.700
And that's probably the most important people

02:31:45.700 --> 02:31:49.280
that should, at some point, have an inclination

02:31:49.280 --> 02:31:55.520
to that. There's liabilities that come with the

02:31:55.520 --> 02:32:01.260
job. And none of us ever anticipate those liabilities.

02:32:02.710 --> 02:32:06.549
None of us. I think that's an important thing

02:32:06.549 --> 02:32:11.629
that you said, Terry, is no one from the public

02:32:11.629 --> 02:32:15.209
really understands what we go through. Just the

02:32:15.209 --> 02:32:18.370
same as I was never a soldier. No one's ever

02:32:18.370 --> 02:32:20.969
shot at me yet. I don't know what that's like.

02:32:21.069 --> 02:32:22.889
I don't want to know what that's like. I know

02:32:22.889 --> 02:32:24.209
enough to know that I don't want to know what

02:32:24.209 --> 02:32:28.549
it's like. But the only other people who really

02:32:28.549 --> 02:32:30.870
know what we do and what we go through are the

02:32:30.870 --> 02:32:35.700
firefighters. And if we don't look after one

02:32:35.700 --> 02:32:43.059
another, no one else is going to. You're right.

02:32:44.100 --> 02:32:51.799
A year ago at my church, the guy that had arranged

02:32:51.799 --> 02:32:56.860
a, it was during the summertime, it was a veterans

02:32:56.860 --> 02:33:00.159
event. And he said he wanted all veterans and

02:33:00.159 --> 02:33:04.850
first responders. to be recognized. And he came

02:33:04.850 --> 02:33:07.530
up to me afterwards and he said, why didn't you

02:33:07.530 --> 02:33:14.729
come up here and be recognized? And I said, I

02:33:14.729 --> 02:33:22.370
don't consider myself a hero. Those guys up there

02:33:22.370 --> 02:33:27.329
had bullets whistling by their heads. I don't

02:33:27.329 --> 02:33:30.209
consider the same, what I did for a living, the

02:33:30.209 --> 02:33:35.729
same as what They did for a living. And he goes,

02:33:35.829 --> 02:33:40.389
I said, you may not understand that, but we take

02:33:40.389 --> 02:33:46.950
educated risks. They're taking life changing

02:33:46.950 --> 02:33:51.969
risks that, you know, in a moment's time, they

02:33:51.969 --> 02:33:56.350
could be gone. Where ours are educated based

02:33:56.350 --> 02:34:00.649
on training, based on our fitness, based on.

02:34:01.319 --> 02:34:05.659
our ability yeah death in the fire service is

02:34:05.659 --> 02:34:09.020
more often than not the result of a bad decision

02:34:09.020 --> 02:34:12.700
it's always a result of a bad decision and in

02:34:12.700 --> 02:34:15.500
the military they have something called acceptable

02:34:15.500 --> 02:34:18.559
losses that's right and if you need a strategic

02:34:18.559 --> 02:34:22.520
point on a battlefield like a hill or a bunker

02:34:22.520 --> 02:34:25.989
whatever They'll decide we'll lose 30 % of our

02:34:25.989 --> 02:34:28.129
fighting force here to get that. It's worth it.

02:34:28.129 --> 02:34:30.469
That's an acceptable loss. We don't have that.

02:34:30.590 --> 02:34:34.250
There's no losses. My point to him was I will

02:34:34.250 --> 02:34:39.790
never, ever compare myself to a guy who's willing

02:34:39.790 --> 02:34:43.389
to take a bullet for this country. As far as

02:34:43.389 --> 02:34:46.469
I'm concerned, they will always be the hero in

02:34:46.469 --> 02:34:52.549
my eyes. Period. So they can say what they want,

02:34:52.649 --> 02:34:57.260
but. As far as I'm concerned, come Veterans Day,

02:34:57.399 --> 02:35:01.459
they are the heroes. Every day of the year, they're

02:35:01.459 --> 02:35:05.500
the heroes. So, I mean, if I'm in Dallas Airport

02:35:05.500 --> 02:35:08.959
and I buy somebody a meal, it's because I consider

02:35:08.959 --> 02:35:11.379
them to be the heroes. So on 9 -11, you don't

02:35:11.379 --> 02:35:13.659
put on your bunker gear and take selfies? No,

02:35:13.700 --> 02:35:18.559
I do not. Walk around? No, I do not. No, thank

02:35:18.559 --> 02:35:23.739
you. All right, well, this is... i mean obviously

02:35:23.739 --> 02:35:27.639
we've we've gone from literally when when you're

02:35:27.639 --> 02:35:31.040
talking about the killer whale i was i almost

02:35:31.040 --> 02:35:33.920
pissed myself like actually pissed myself because

02:35:33.920 --> 02:35:36.000
i'm imagining joe in this wetsuit it's got like

02:35:36.000 --> 02:35:41.020
the white bit on the back with the fin and then

02:35:41.020 --> 02:35:44.680
we've gone down a very honest in an area that

02:35:44.680 --> 02:35:46.500
we need to talk about you know because like i

02:35:46.500 --> 02:35:51.399
said this is the most cohesive fucking dialed

02:35:51.399 --> 02:35:53.959
in crew i've ever been with with the amazing

02:35:53.959 --> 02:35:56.319
leadership you know with terry and then when

02:35:56.319 --> 02:35:58.360
when dennis for example was here you know we

02:35:58.360 --> 02:36:02.520
had some great bcs and um and that i think highlights

02:36:02.520 --> 02:36:06.479
that no matter how good you are you know this

02:36:06.479 --> 02:36:08.719
is a thing but it's not all we are but you know

02:36:08.719 --> 02:36:11.860
this this is you know a group of very fired up

02:36:11.860 --> 02:36:13.959
alpha males yeah it's a big part of who we are

02:36:13.959 --> 02:36:19.659
yeah you know so um but this has been You know,

02:36:19.739 --> 02:36:24.479
you take this job because you want to serve.

02:36:26.219 --> 02:36:31.520
And my advice to people today is if you lose

02:36:31.520 --> 02:36:35.780
track of why you took the job, reexamine your

02:36:35.780 --> 02:36:39.139
heart. Ask yourself if you're in the right place.

02:36:40.100 --> 02:36:44.159
And if you're not, make a positive change to

02:36:44.159 --> 02:36:47.899
find yourself a better line of work. Because

02:36:47.899 --> 02:36:50.579
it's not work. Don't sue everyone that you work

02:36:50.579 --> 02:36:54.020
with. No, do not sue everyone you work with.

02:36:54.659 --> 02:36:58.180
No, if you're not content with what you do for

02:36:58.180 --> 02:37:01.040
a living, which is serving other people, then

02:37:01.040 --> 02:37:02.920
you need to find somewhere else to work. Because

02:37:02.920 --> 02:37:05.180
you're just going to be a cancer for everybody

02:37:05.180 --> 02:37:11.479
around you. Because it's not about you. That's

02:37:11.479 --> 02:37:14.940
the problem. The problem is we are raising people

02:37:14.940 --> 02:37:17.399
today that don't understand it's not about you.

02:37:18.020 --> 02:37:20.600
Now let me ask you this because I've used Anaheim

02:37:20.600 --> 02:37:22.420
and I've put them on a pedestal and I think it's

02:37:22.420 --> 02:37:27.340
incredible. But in the perspective that I have,

02:37:27.399 --> 02:37:29.940
what I've seen through my eyes, the reason why

02:37:29.940 --> 02:37:32.700
they were so good when we were there, when we

02:37:32.700 --> 02:37:39.139
got hired, was set in that bar. And like you

02:37:39.139 --> 02:37:41.610
said, this... This is a life of service, and

02:37:41.610 --> 02:37:43.750
I fight very hard for the working conditions,

02:37:43.850 --> 02:37:45.110
and I hope that's going to change, and we're

02:37:45.110 --> 02:37:46.989
going to change the way we do shifts, maybe 24

02:37:46.989 --> 02:37:50.270
-72, so they have the recovery time physically,

02:37:50.469 --> 02:37:52.870
mentally, to not get to some of the places that

02:37:52.870 --> 02:37:56.010
we've discussed today. But what's your view on

02:37:56.010 --> 02:37:59.790
keeping that bar super high and having the balls

02:37:59.790 --> 02:38:02.549
to overcome that, oh, we need 18 and a heartbeat

02:38:02.549 --> 02:38:06.510
bullshit, and view ourselves as a profession

02:38:06.510 --> 02:38:08.909
where if we lower that bar, people are going

02:38:08.909 --> 02:38:12.809
to die? We've lowered the bar. We lowered the

02:38:12.809 --> 02:38:17.190
bar. When Dickie was hired. You got hired with

02:38:17.190 --> 02:38:20.690
me, punk. No, we started outsourcing and hiring

02:38:20.690 --> 02:38:26.389
foreigners. At what point do you want us... We've

02:38:26.389 --> 02:38:30.010
been lowering the bar for a long time. We've

02:38:30.010 --> 02:38:35.329
lowered it for every reason possible. We've changed

02:38:35.329 --> 02:38:38.309
the testing process to accommodate a larger...

02:38:38.809 --> 02:38:43.909
group of people, the question becomes at what

02:38:43.909 --> 02:38:46.969
point is enough enough? And that's the problem.

02:38:47.370 --> 02:38:50.930
We live in a society today where we have laws.

02:38:51.989 --> 02:38:53.889
We've gotten to the point where we disregard

02:38:53.889 --> 02:38:59.489
laws because it offends a large group of people.

02:39:00.510 --> 02:39:04.489
The problem is, is when you start breaking the

02:39:04.489 --> 02:39:10.100
laws. At what point do you say, that's a bridge

02:39:10.100 --> 02:39:14.260
too far, we can't go that route? That's why you

02:39:14.260 --> 02:39:20.200
have to be firm with everything. You have to

02:39:20.200 --> 02:39:26.159
have a point where you say, that's it. And when

02:39:26.159 --> 02:39:32.379
you start making allowances for people, at some

02:39:32.379 --> 02:39:34.739
point, it's going to come back to bite you in

02:39:34.739 --> 02:39:37.809
the ass. And it's doing that right now, I assume.

02:39:38.190 --> 02:39:41.670
I think there's a new trend. Well, it's not just

02:39:41.670 --> 02:39:45.530
the fire service. It's all over. It's taken over.

02:39:46.209 --> 02:39:49.950
And it's the new job force. And that is millennials.

02:39:50.930 --> 02:39:53.850
It was a different upbringing and a different

02:39:53.850 --> 02:39:59.209
time. And I'm guilty of it myself. I just missed

02:39:59.209 --> 02:40:04.180
the cusp of being a millennial. I tell my son

02:40:04.180 --> 02:40:07.600
he can do anything he wants and he's amazing

02:40:07.600 --> 02:40:10.840
and I love him unconditionally and he's so fantastic.

02:40:11.440 --> 02:40:13.659
And I think everyone needs to tell their kids

02:40:13.659 --> 02:40:15.940
that. But then you also need to tell them you

02:40:15.940 --> 02:40:17.920
can do anything you want and have anything you

02:40:17.920 --> 02:40:22.219
want if you work for it. And that's a problem.

02:40:22.340 --> 02:40:25.819
So when you have soccer teams and you get playing

02:40:25.819 --> 02:40:28.399
a tournament and you get a ninth place participation

02:40:28.399 --> 02:40:32.680
award certificate, it means nothing. But these

02:40:32.680 --> 02:40:34.899
kids have been told their whole life that they're

02:40:34.899 --> 02:40:38.100
amazing and you're the best. And now one time

02:40:38.100 --> 02:40:40.520
you find out that you're not good enough and

02:40:40.520 --> 02:40:44.180
you sue because you're upset. We're in a place

02:40:44.180 --> 02:40:48.899
where a person's feelings are now the overriding

02:40:48.899 --> 02:40:58.340
bar. And that's a scary place to be because everybody's

02:40:58.340 --> 02:41:03.280
feelings are a little bit different, right? So,

02:41:03.280 --> 02:41:05.659
you know, you grow up in an environment where,

02:41:05.680 --> 02:41:09.319
you know, whatever your situation is, whatever

02:41:09.319 --> 02:41:12.760
it may be, you know, we like to think that everybody

02:41:12.760 --> 02:41:16.940
has it better than we did, right? For the most

02:41:16.940 --> 02:41:20.020
part. I mean, when we look at people, we judge

02:41:20.020 --> 02:41:27.040
them based on our life's experiences. So, that's

02:41:27.040 --> 02:41:30.959
a skewed number to start with. Because we assume.

02:41:31.819 --> 02:41:34.659
And when you begin to assume, that's when you

02:41:34.659 --> 02:41:38.579
have problems. But that's why you have to have

02:41:38.579 --> 02:41:44.200
a bar. That is a very steady bar. That is a bar

02:41:44.200 --> 02:41:53.219
that says, the minute you lie, you're gone. The

02:41:53.219 --> 02:41:56.840
minute you... I would fire somebody tomorrow

02:41:56.840 --> 02:42:00.370
for lying. That means I can't trust you ever.

02:42:01.129 --> 02:42:03.989
What about the physical side too? I mean, just

02:42:03.989 --> 02:42:07.909
the pure ability. I always said I'd be a shitty

02:42:07.909 --> 02:42:10.110
accountant. You know, there's horses for courses.

02:42:10.489 --> 02:42:13.649
Well, I mean, the powers to be have decided that

02:42:13.649 --> 02:42:16.770
it's more important to include more people that

02:42:16.770 --> 02:42:21.489
aren't physically gifted. It's a decision they've

02:42:21.489 --> 02:42:26.569
made. I don't think I can argue the point with

02:42:26.569 --> 02:42:30.209
them. Because I don't hold the cards. They hold

02:42:30.209 --> 02:42:33.530
the cards. So they give me what they give me.

02:42:34.329 --> 02:42:37.950
And it's up to me to make the most with it. That's

02:42:37.950 --> 02:42:39.450
the biggest point right there. Talking to the

02:42:39.450 --> 02:42:41.090
microphone. That's the biggest point that you

02:42:41.090 --> 02:42:43.430
made right there. Is that you got to make do

02:42:43.430 --> 02:42:47.530
with what you got. Because you said you were

02:42:47.530 --> 02:42:51.969
in the best part of the fire service years. You

02:42:51.969 --> 02:42:54.909
had people that were coming from different trades.

02:42:55.530 --> 02:42:58.889
uh different professions prior the different

02:42:58.889 --> 02:43:00.889
countries they knew how to work with their hands

02:43:00.889 --> 02:43:05.770
and now we give people we have to have a class

02:43:05.770 --> 02:43:10.010
on how to identify different hand tools right

02:43:10.010 --> 02:43:13.450
but we can give that same individual and tolerance

02:43:13.450 --> 02:43:16.790
for other cultures no that's not necessary unnecessary

02:43:16.790 --> 02:43:19.370
let me ask just to cut in about classes for a

02:43:19.370 --> 02:43:24.149
second i have do you guys have to do the um sensitivity

02:43:24.149 --> 02:43:28.469
training you know the the the uh harassment in

02:43:28.469 --> 02:43:31.209
the workplace and all that stuff i failed yeah

02:43:31.209 --> 02:43:33.950
so so my thing is this that's the the point of

02:43:33.950 --> 02:43:36.270
ridiculous that we've got to the ridiculousness

02:43:36.270 --> 02:43:39.030
is and we're talking about this on the way here

02:43:39.030 --> 02:43:42.549
so let's say you are a giant douchebag and i

02:43:42.549 --> 02:43:45.190
give you a powerpoint presentation on how harassment

02:43:45.190 --> 02:43:48.049
hurts feelings do you honestly think that that's

02:43:48.049 --> 02:43:50.090
going to change the way that that person acts

02:43:50.090 --> 02:43:53.770
now no no absolutely you know that that's what's

02:43:53.770 --> 02:43:57.969
crazy is That bar creates the people that you

02:43:57.969 --> 02:43:59.729
want to walk through the door. But the moment

02:43:59.729 --> 02:44:01.809
you lower it, now you're doing, oh, but we need

02:44:01.809 --> 02:44:03.809
to go see the sensitivity training because Steve

02:44:03.809 --> 02:44:06.790
said a Mexican joke and Joe got all fucking upset

02:44:06.790 --> 02:44:08.709
about it. You're talking about the same society

02:44:08.709 --> 02:44:12.409
that, what did I read, that they find Rudolph

02:44:12.409 --> 02:44:15.329
the Red -Nosed Reindeer offensive, racist, and

02:44:15.329 --> 02:44:17.909
sexist. Yeah, because what about the blue -nosed

02:44:17.909 --> 02:44:21.290
people? Did you just assume that Rudolph is a

02:44:21.290 --> 02:44:24.469
male's name? No, that's weird. And what about

02:44:24.469 --> 02:44:28.760
sun bears? It's a weatherist too. I can't believe

02:44:28.760 --> 02:44:32.860
he's talking like this. Let's unfollow him. I'm

02:44:32.860 --> 02:44:34.379
not going to like any more of your Instagram

02:44:34.379 --> 02:44:37.819
pictures. I'm going to recap real quick. I'm

02:44:37.819 --> 02:44:40.379
not bashing on millennials. I'm just saying that's

02:44:40.379 --> 02:44:44.459
now the majority. It's the older Christ at 13

02:44:44.459 --> 02:44:47.260
years on. It does feel like the older generation.

02:44:47.399 --> 02:44:50.000
There's a whole bunch of things. You asked me

02:44:50.000 --> 02:44:52.159
to build a spreadsheet or a PowerPoint. I'm going

02:44:52.159 --> 02:44:56.299
to go, are you fucking mad? and then it would

02:44:56.299 --> 02:44:58.520
come to change oil on your car or change your

02:44:58.520 --> 02:45:00.819
tire, and there's other younger kids that won't

02:45:00.819 --> 02:45:02.479
be able to do that or start a lawnmower because

02:45:02.479 --> 02:45:04.479
they've never done it. And I'll look at them

02:45:04.479 --> 02:45:06.979
like, are you crazy? But then they'll look at

02:45:06.979 --> 02:45:08.319
me like, what do you mean you don't know how

02:45:08.319 --> 02:45:10.159
to make a PowerPoint? I mean, there's strengths

02:45:10.159 --> 02:45:12.659
and weaknesses everywhere, but there's got to

02:45:12.659 --> 02:45:15.100
be adaptation. When you were testing for the

02:45:15.100 --> 02:45:19.420
position of a firefighter, I remember getting

02:45:19.420 --> 02:45:22.159
up at night before, actually going the night

02:45:22.159 --> 02:45:27.319
before to camp out. Yes. At City Hall. At whatever.

02:45:27.719 --> 02:45:29.280
Because they were only going to hand out 500

02:45:29.280 --> 02:45:32.520
applications and there were 2 ,000 people that

02:45:32.520 --> 02:45:34.680
wanted the job. Pitch intense. I just walked

02:45:34.680 --> 02:45:36.180
to the front of the line and flashed my British

02:45:36.180 --> 02:45:38.700
passport and I'm here to be a firefighter. Diplomatic

02:45:38.700 --> 02:45:42.159
immunity. That's what Dickie had. But now, you

02:45:42.159 --> 02:45:46.860
know, that's not the way it is anymore. You know,

02:45:46.899 --> 02:45:50.040
people, it's not, there's still people that desire

02:45:50.040 --> 02:45:52.219
the job but it's not, it doesn't seem like it.

02:45:52.750 --> 02:45:56.450
the way it was prior no well we when we tested

02:45:56.450 --> 02:45:59.930
there was 1200 people going for what 30 spots

02:45:59.930 --> 02:46:04.200
i think it was 1 ,200 people. And the funny thing...

02:46:04.200 --> 02:46:06.799
No, it was our academy had, I think, 14 or 16

02:46:06.799 --> 02:46:10.280
people. Yeah, but Timbo's class was including

02:46:10.280 --> 02:46:11.899
the higher... Oh, you mean the music group? Yeah,

02:46:12.059 --> 02:46:14.620
like you're saying, the second string metal people.

02:46:14.739 --> 02:46:17.340
Yeah, the ninth place participation of those

02:46:17.340 --> 02:46:19.319
people. And speaking of observation, what was

02:46:19.319 --> 02:46:22.319
funny about that is I remember coming from Florida,

02:46:22.399 --> 02:46:25.040
I was flying over to test, and looking at this

02:46:25.040 --> 02:46:29.500
sea of white faces and going... We fight for

02:46:29.500 --> 02:46:33.059
diversity in the fire service, but if we're not

02:46:33.059 --> 02:46:36.159
mentoring people from the community to even be

02:46:36.159 --> 02:46:38.940
able to test, you can't blame the fire departments.

02:46:39.100 --> 02:46:41.920
We need to create an environment where we're

02:46:41.920 --> 02:46:44.219
going to, you know, the minorities, the women,

02:46:44.260 --> 02:46:45.979
whatever, and getting them in through the door.

02:46:45.979 --> 02:46:49.219
They did that. They did? And they went so far

02:46:49.219 --> 02:46:54.959
as to go to the colleges and find girls that

02:46:54.959 --> 02:46:58.059
were actually taking fire science. And then drag

02:46:58.059 --> 02:47:01.620
them over to fill out applications, James. That's

02:47:01.620 --> 02:47:09.399
how we got Dickie. As well as we actually went

02:47:09.399 --> 02:47:11.959
out into Anaheim High School and actually mentored

02:47:11.959 --> 02:47:17.120
a number of students. One of them who's working

02:47:17.120 --> 02:47:20.719
for the ambulance company still or was. I don't

02:47:20.719 --> 02:47:21.899
know if he's still there now. He was at Home

02:47:21.899 --> 02:47:25.840
Depot last I knew. I mean, we tried doing stuff

02:47:25.840 --> 02:47:30.180
like that. But part of the problem with that

02:47:30.180 --> 02:47:37.700
is, and I would just ask these guys here who

02:47:37.700 --> 02:47:48.000
are working, you can't stay in front of, in California

02:47:48.000 --> 02:47:51.120
at least, we have a real problem with staying

02:47:51.120 --> 02:47:55.370
in front of the demographics. I would guess you

02:47:55.370 --> 02:47:57.229
don't have anywhere near the amount of Koreans

02:47:57.229 --> 02:48:00.329
on the fire department that we have locally living

02:48:00.329 --> 02:48:04.829
in our area now. You can't predict how things

02:48:04.829 --> 02:48:10.989
change so fast. And you can also get people to

02:48:10.989 --> 02:48:15.190
your job, but it's not a desired job. And Koreans

02:48:15.190 --> 02:48:17.790
don't look at a fire department job and go, yeah.

02:48:18.649 --> 02:48:20.950
Well, the other thing as well is that, again,

02:48:21.010 --> 02:48:22.190
it goes back to what we talked about before.

02:48:22.950 --> 02:48:25.170
it doesn't matter what you look like if i mean

02:48:25.170 --> 02:48:27.510
it's ironic my my wife is filipino she's got

02:48:27.510 --> 02:48:30.670
big round eyes i'm pure caucasian i got little

02:48:30.670 --> 02:48:33.389
slanty eyes so we're destroying stereotypes right

02:48:33.389 --> 02:48:36.770
there but you just have two types and i don't

02:48:36.770 --> 02:48:38.850
care what pigmentation you got what what your

02:48:38.850 --> 02:48:41.049
teeth are like how tall you are what your eye

02:48:41.049 --> 02:48:44.190
shape is you either can or you can't and that's

02:48:44.190 --> 02:48:46.829
what kills me with this whole quota thing but

02:48:46.829 --> 02:48:49.350
the other side is you can't look at a department

02:48:49.350 --> 02:48:52.530
and go oh they're you know whatever because they've

02:48:52.530 --> 02:48:55.549
got x amount of black white indian you know you

02:48:55.549 --> 02:48:57.010
go on some of the reservations they're probably

02:48:57.010 --> 02:48:59.510
going to be mostly native americans the only

02:48:59.510 --> 02:49:02.030
thing that we should concern with is are there

02:49:02.030 --> 02:49:04.489
good people on the department or the shitty people

02:49:04.489 --> 02:49:07.649
on the department yeah the people who are making

02:49:07.649 --> 02:49:10.770
the policies about who to hire in various departments

02:49:10.770 --> 02:49:15.709
um are not the ones whose lives depend on the

02:49:15.709 --> 02:49:19.229
person standing next to them The problem you

02:49:19.229 --> 02:49:28.729
have is that for the folks that value the job

02:49:28.729 --> 02:49:30.950
that they have and the position because they

02:49:30.950 --> 02:49:33.629
worked hard to get there and it actually has

02:49:33.629 --> 02:49:39.229
a meaning to them. And then you drag in a bunch

02:49:39.229 --> 02:49:43.350
of people who you're lacking in numbers and you

02:49:43.350 --> 02:49:47.489
force them into the equation. And then you ask

02:49:47.489 --> 02:49:52.370
everybody who's busted their ass to get where

02:49:52.370 --> 02:49:55.370
they're at to accept the fact that they're being

02:49:55.370 --> 02:49:57.930
injected into a system. And this happens more

02:49:57.930 --> 02:50:01.149
in the East Coast than it does with us. But still,

02:50:01.309 --> 02:50:06.069
you're just making the environment untenable

02:50:06.069 --> 02:50:09.750
for that new employee because they don't understand

02:50:09.750 --> 02:50:15.229
what they bought into. What I've noticed with

02:50:15.229 --> 02:50:17.110
people that I've had that you could classify

02:50:17.110 --> 02:50:21.569
as that minority is the people that have stepped

02:50:21.569 --> 02:50:24.930
up and done the training and studied the text

02:50:24.930 --> 02:50:27.950
and got themselves physically ready are insulted

02:50:27.950 --> 02:50:31.530
by that system where there are people that are

02:50:31.530 --> 02:50:33.309
just slot in because they need to fill a quota.

02:50:33.709 --> 02:50:36.209
Right. Right. That's always been a thought that

02:50:36.209 --> 02:50:39.629
everybody loops it in because I remember the

02:50:39.629 --> 02:50:44.329
city of L .A. had a consent decree. So they think

02:50:44.329 --> 02:50:47.409
that it doesn't matter. It's a fire department,

02:50:47.549 --> 02:50:50.129
so all fire departments must have that. So when

02:50:50.129 --> 02:50:51.989
I first got hired, people would always say that,

02:50:52.049 --> 02:50:53.950
oh, you just got hired because of your skin color.

02:50:54.030 --> 02:50:56.170
It's easier for you to get hired. And I thought

02:50:56.170 --> 02:50:58.889
it was because it's not the case with our department.

02:50:59.450 --> 02:51:02.170
It never has been. Yeah, our department, when

02:51:02.170 --> 02:51:07.350
I got hired, was told they need to hire a bunch

02:51:07.350 --> 02:51:10.670
of other people. And it was, you know, during

02:51:10.670 --> 02:51:12.690
the 70s, I'll tell you, it was hard to get hired.

02:51:13.049 --> 02:51:19.270
if you were a white guy because you were not

02:51:19.270 --> 02:51:22.370
desirable. You didn't make anybody's quotas look

02:51:22.370 --> 02:51:30.329
any better. But the point should be, and this

02:51:30.329 --> 02:51:33.729
is what they still don't, you know, all that,

02:51:33.729 --> 02:51:39.809
you know, HR bullshit that they hang their hats

02:51:39.809 --> 02:51:44.840
on. doesn't help the fire service. None of it

02:51:44.840 --> 02:51:49.719
does. Because you either want to serve and it

02:51:49.719 --> 02:51:52.040
doesn't make a bit of difference what color you

02:51:52.040 --> 02:51:54.219
are when you're serving. If your heart's in the

02:51:54.219 --> 02:51:56.020
right place and you want to serve your community

02:51:56.020 --> 02:51:59.299
and you're doing it for the right reasons, it

02:51:59.299 --> 02:52:00.940
doesn't give a shit. I don't give a shit what

02:52:00.940 --> 02:52:04.739
color you are. It burns everyone equally. It

02:52:04.739 --> 02:52:08.440
takes its prisoners. It doesn't look a color

02:52:08.440 --> 02:52:12.540
when it takes prisoners. It abuses everybody

02:52:12.540 --> 02:52:19.079
equally. And, you know, it just does. And so

02:52:19.079 --> 02:52:27.260
you're creating a problem within a problem by

02:52:27.260 --> 02:52:31.000
infusing color into it and forcing people into

02:52:31.000 --> 02:52:33.020
a position that they weren't even interested

02:52:33.020 --> 02:52:35.559
in taking in the first place. And that's the

02:52:35.559 --> 02:52:38.040
thing. If you were going to try and put this

02:52:38.040 --> 02:52:41.559
in American terms here, I don't know a whole

02:52:41.559 --> 02:52:44.860
lot about football, but if you were going to

02:52:44.860 --> 02:52:48.139
play in the Super Bowl and you were the manager

02:52:48.139 --> 02:52:51.500
or the owner of a team, you would want to put

02:52:51.500 --> 02:52:55.299
your best players on the field to increase your

02:52:55.299 --> 02:52:58.520
chances of winning. And it doesn't matter what

02:52:58.520 --> 02:53:01.340
color or gender the players are. They could be

02:53:01.340 --> 02:53:03.340
black, Hispanic. They could be white, Asian,

02:53:03.459 --> 02:53:06.700
male, female, or even British if you are really

02:53:06.700 --> 02:53:10.389
desperate and there was no one else there. You

02:53:10.389 --> 02:53:13.450
put the best players on the team, and for a guy

02:53:13.450 --> 02:53:17.370
on the floor who's in harm's way, I think we

02:53:17.370 --> 02:53:20.290
can all agree that all any of us want is the

02:53:20.290 --> 02:53:22.790
best candidates available. And where they come

02:53:22.790 --> 02:53:25.309
from or what they look like does not matter.

02:53:25.690 --> 02:53:28.250
Just give me the best. I'm going to think that

02:53:28.250 --> 02:53:30.969
if you said, oh, I'm sorry that your kid died,

02:53:31.069 --> 02:53:34.510
but here's the good news. They were a black lesbian

02:53:34.510 --> 02:53:38.110
paraplegic, so that at least makes things better.

02:53:38.209 --> 02:53:42.040
It's like, no. Like I said, there's good firefighters

02:53:42.040 --> 02:53:45.280
and bad firefighters. It's an insult to inject

02:53:45.280 --> 02:53:47.700
pigmentation. Now, don't get me wrong. If there's

02:53:47.700 --> 02:53:50.340
prejudice, if you're in a department where there

02:53:50.340 --> 02:53:53.500
are some fucking amazing candidates that are

02:53:53.500 --> 02:53:57.040
way better than 90 % of the white people and

02:53:57.040 --> 02:53:59.440
they're getting rejected, that's a separate issue

02:53:59.440 --> 02:54:01.700
that needs to be addressed. But if it's just

02:54:01.700 --> 02:54:04.979
injecting people based on gender, sexual preference,

02:54:05.040 --> 02:54:05.500
whatever, that's a separate thing. If it's based

02:54:05.500 --> 02:54:08.579
on a percentage, it will always be wrong. just

02:54:08.579 --> 02:54:10.399
like it's going to be proven wrong in the colleges,

02:54:10.479 --> 02:54:15.399
if you're allowing people into your school that

02:54:15.399 --> 02:54:18.139
aren't the smartest ones based on the pigment

02:54:18.139 --> 02:54:21.180
of their skin and you're not, let's just say

02:54:21.180 --> 02:54:25.899
that you're, that the score for an Asian has

02:54:25.899 --> 02:54:28.979
to be much higher to be entered into Stanford.

02:54:28.979 --> 02:54:31.280
Yeah, which is a real thing. Yeah, it's a real

02:54:31.280 --> 02:54:33.959
thing. But yet you're going to take me because

02:54:33.959 --> 02:54:38.809
I'm a white guy and I'm not as smart? then there's

02:54:38.809 --> 02:54:41.989
a problem with that. It's got to be based on

02:54:41.989 --> 02:54:45.950
whether you're able to do it or not. Now, in

02:54:45.950 --> 02:54:49.750
the fire service, we get what we get and we make

02:54:49.750 --> 02:54:54.629
the most of it. Yeah, I know. Dickie was, yeah.

02:54:54.809 --> 02:54:58.389
But look what we did. Marginal. Look what we

02:54:58.389 --> 02:55:02.010
did. It took a lot of work. But at the end of

02:55:02.010 --> 02:55:09.340
the day, though, it's about desire. And, you

02:55:09.340 --> 02:55:13.260
know, I would take a guy who wants to be there,

02:55:13.299 --> 02:55:17.520
that works hard, that maybe isn't all there yet,

02:55:17.659 --> 02:55:21.819
over a guy who's not really that interested,

02:55:22.079 --> 02:55:27.959
any day of the week. Because your motivation

02:55:27.959 --> 02:55:34.620
carries a lot more gravity than a person with

02:55:34.620 --> 02:55:36.540
a bad attitude and all the ability in the world.

02:55:38.090 --> 02:55:41.430
yeah okay it boils down to that why and i i can

02:55:41.430 --> 02:55:45.190
attest i don't know if joe was on on the training

02:55:45.190 --> 02:55:47.290
ground at all and we went through academy but

02:55:47.290 --> 02:55:50.370
i came from the east coast we didn't throw ladders

02:55:50.370 --> 02:55:53.190
like you lot so my learning curve had to be like

02:55:53.190 --> 02:55:56.110
a fucking skyscraper just to to figure it out

02:55:56.110 --> 02:56:00.049
yeah i mean i i had talks like we're wondering

02:56:00.049 --> 02:56:05.030
if you are going to make it or not but my burning

02:56:05.030 --> 02:56:08.059
desire of knowing what i wanted to do carried

02:56:08.059 --> 02:56:11.959
me through but it was it was rough i mean i i

02:56:11.959 --> 02:56:14.340
uh they're all like doing all these these ladder

02:56:14.340 --> 02:56:16.120
throws that they were taught in in the academy

02:56:16.120 --> 02:56:17.760
and i'm like oh you don't just put it against

02:56:17.760 --> 02:56:20.479
the building and then just climb it up no we

02:56:20.479 --> 02:56:24.180
have high shoulder and 35 and and i'm like oh

02:56:24.180 --> 02:56:27.899
shit but like you said you know it doesn't matter

02:56:27.899 --> 02:56:31.719
who you are you know and anaheim has has some

02:56:31.719 --> 02:56:34.620
cultural backgrounds reflected but it just depends

02:56:34.620 --> 02:56:39.129
on if that man woman wants to be a firefighter

02:56:39.129 --> 02:56:42.010
for the right reasons or just wants to put their

02:56:42.010 --> 02:56:45.629
gear on, do selfies on 9 -11. Let me qualify

02:56:45.629 --> 02:56:52.530
what you just said. Back when we had the squad,

02:56:52.829 --> 02:56:55.629
which I don't think you guys ever worked on.

02:56:55.629 --> 02:56:57.709
Oh, we worked on the squad. Okay, the squad.

02:56:58.870 --> 02:57:00.809
Mooney's feet couldn't touch the pedals. The

02:57:00.809 --> 02:57:04.350
squad, do you recall the ladders on the squad?

02:57:04.709 --> 02:57:11.510
The what? The ladders. Yes. 35s, right? If you

02:57:11.510 --> 02:57:13.590
wanted to work for me on the squad, you had to

02:57:13.590 --> 02:57:18.110
be able to throw a two -man 35. Well, you're

02:57:18.110 --> 02:57:20.170
the only one that I've ever seen that can do

02:57:20.170 --> 02:57:22.549
that. We almost died. Do you remember that? Yeah.

02:57:22.569 --> 02:57:24.549
The new, the teletrucks, we tried to throw the

02:57:24.549 --> 02:57:27.829
35. But then, two -man 30, you had to be able

02:57:27.829 --> 02:57:29.329
to do that because we had two ladders that were

02:57:29.329 --> 02:57:32.850
35s. And we had four guys in the squad. So you

02:57:32.850 --> 02:57:34.590
had to be able to do, each of you had to be able

02:57:34.590 --> 02:57:38.260
to throw two. 35 -foot ladders between the four

02:57:38.260 --> 02:57:41.559
of you. And that was the requirement. So we had

02:57:41.559 --> 02:57:47.059
people that would not bid that rig because they

02:57:47.059 --> 02:57:48.739
couldn't do it. And they didn't want to be in

02:57:48.739 --> 02:57:50.399
the situation to have to do it. So those folks

02:57:50.399 --> 02:57:53.219
would go to Station 3. They'd work Engine 3.

02:57:54.379 --> 02:58:00.520
You know, whatever. If you weren't a ninja, I

02:58:00.520 --> 02:58:03.700
would fucking slap you right now. But it just

02:58:03.700 --> 02:58:08.670
goes to the... That people that knew they weren't

02:58:08.670 --> 02:58:11.129
cut out for that would probably avoid that and

02:58:11.129 --> 02:58:12.870
go to places where they could function at a higher

02:58:12.870 --> 02:58:18.170
level. And that's not demonizing people. No,

02:58:18.270 --> 02:58:20.110
no, no. If you're a rock star medic and you want

02:58:20.110 --> 02:58:22.149
to go on the medic list, then do it. I could

02:58:22.149 --> 02:58:24.989
name a few people to you that were really, really,

02:58:25.010 --> 02:58:29.860
really good medics. chose a different route yeah

02:58:29.860 --> 02:58:32.840
you do the the theme park route yeah and again

02:58:32.840 --> 02:58:35.040
if you're scared of heights truck one is not

02:58:35.040 --> 02:58:38.299
especially old truck 118 feet with no fucking

02:58:38.299 --> 02:58:41.180
wobbly ass yeah with no no struts in between

02:58:41.180 --> 02:58:43.120
the rungs where you're looking down like i could

02:58:43.120 --> 02:58:44.659
literally fall through that and die right now

02:58:44.659 --> 02:58:47.760
yeah i mean there was yeah you know there was

02:58:47.760 --> 02:58:51.479
a place for everybody and there were places that

02:58:51.479 --> 02:58:55.200
you wouldn't get some people to go but i guess

02:58:55.200 --> 02:58:58.239
i'm saying that's okay if you were smart enough

02:58:58.239 --> 02:59:00.559
to know that you didn't belong there then you

02:59:00.559 --> 02:59:03.100
just didn't get your ability to self -evaluate

02:59:03.100 --> 02:59:05.959
exactly is very very important you know what

02:59:05.959 --> 02:59:08.239
you recognize you wear the same badge and the

02:59:08.239 --> 02:59:10.840
same patch as everybody else you just chose to

02:59:10.840 --> 02:59:12.379
put yourself where you could be more efficient

02:59:12.379 --> 02:59:16.030
but I think it's fair that the public has an

02:59:16.030 --> 02:59:18.430
expectation that if you were in that badge and

02:59:18.430 --> 02:59:20.850
that patch, that you should be able to function

02:59:20.850 --> 02:59:24.149
anywhere. The public doesn't understand the difference

02:59:24.149 --> 02:59:28.770
any more than the HR department does. I'm going

02:59:28.770 --> 02:59:30.809
to ask Joe so we can give him some mic time.

02:59:31.690 --> 02:59:37.430
So it's 2018, okay? Most departments around the

02:59:37.430 --> 02:59:39.690
country have been doing EMS for, ooh, fucking

02:59:39.690 --> 02:59:43.579
50 years. So unless you're old as fuck. You should

02:59:43.579 --> 02:59:45.420
know that the fire department when they show

02:59:45.420 --> 02:59:47.520
up are doing EMS. So I know Terry doesn't know

02:59:47.520 --> 02:59:50.120
that, but the rest of the people here. Right

02:59:50.120 --> 02:59:53.159
in front of his face, James, really? That's disrespectful.

02:59:53.940 --> 02:59:57.000
So how do we educate the public of what the fuck

02:59:57.000 --> 02:59:58.719
we actually do? Because that's one of the big

02:59:58.719 --> 03:00:01.100
things. We let these politician douchebags cut

03:00:01.100 --> 03:00:04.780
budget year after year after year. We still hear,

03:00:05.020 --> 03:00:08.399
oh, what are we buying you for lunch today? Or

03:00:08.399 --> 03:00:10.379
why is there a fire engine on my medical call?

03:00:13.159 --> 03:00:19.780
Give me one tip on how to improve education for

03:00:19.780 --> 03:00:23.559
the public on what we do. Well, one of the things

03:00:23.559 --> 03:00:27.139
that I know some agencies have done is get the

03:00:27.139 --> 03:00:30.920
city council, city manager, and put them through

03:00:30.920 --> 03:00:34.920
a type of academy. Let them know. Have them ride

03:00:34.920 --> 03:00:37.739
out. Bring them along. Let them see what it is

03:00:37.739 --> 03:00:42.180
that we do. I forgot what agency it was off the

03:00:42.180 --> 03:00:43.899
top of my head, but they put their city council

03:00:43.899 --> 03:00:47.920
through a small academy, had them do like a fire

03:00:47.920 --> 03:00:51.959
control, an extrication, going up and cutting

03:00:51.959 --> 03:00:54.500
a roof. A lot of it was evaluating, but they

03:00:54.500 --> 03:00:57.479
put them in full gear, put them on air, and they

03:00:57.479 --> 03:00:59.979
got to see exactly what it was that the firefighters

03:00:59.979 --> 03:01:04.139
do. And that's at about 10 % of the actual stress

03:01:04.139 --> 03:01:07.239
level and danger of anything. But at least it

03:01:07.239 --> 03:01:09.120
gives them an idea. It gives them a good start.

03:01:10.299 --> 03:01:13.559
Do a ride -along. A 24 -hour ride -along. Stay

03:01:13.559 --> 03:01:16.319
up all night. Six times in a night. That would

03:01:16.319 --> 03:01:18.040
be a good start right there. But just being able

03:01:18.040 --> 03:01:21.020
to see what it is that we do. Granted, the majority

03:01:21.020 --> 03:01:28.540
of what we do is all EMS. But we do 90%, I would

03:01:28.540 --> 03:01:33.040
say, EMS. So that 10 % of the low -frequency,

03:01:33.159 --> 03:01:36.120
high -risk incidents that we need to stay on

03:01:36.120 --> 03:01:40.649
top on and be very proficient at. they need to

03:01:40.649 --> 03:01:45.030
get at least an introduction of that by seeing

03:01:45.030 --> 03:01:49.389
what it is with a flashover, a rollover, to feel

03:01:49.389 --> 03:01:53.110
a little bit of heat, to be able to put on that

03:01:53.110 --> 03:01:55.729
gear and see what it weighs. And I think they're

03:01:55.729 --> 03:01:57.489
going to have a little bit of a different perspective

03:01:57.489 --> 03:02:01.409
now from our vantage point and not just see that,

03:02:01.530 --> 03:02:05.569
yeah, this... fire truck is 1 .3 million dollars

03:02:05.569 --> 03:02:08.069
or whatever it is that we need to purchase and

03:02:08.069 --> 03:02:09.909
all they're seeing is dollars and cents go out

03:02:09.909 --> 03:02:12.629
the window sit around watching tv it boils down

03:02:12.629 --> 03:02:16.809
to my mom still thinks all we do is sit around

03:02:16.809 --> 03:02:19.750
and play checkers all day and whenever we drive

03:02:19.750 --> 03:02:23.170
with the siren on is because the donut shop has

03:02:23.170 --> 03:02:25.909
just come up with a new batch of donuts and we

03:02:25.909 --> 03:02:27.729
want to get there first and then we all know

03:02:27.729 --> 03:02:29.489
that's the police department that's the cops

03:02:29.489 --> 03:02:34.040
yes so it's a it's a public education thing and

03:02:34.040 --> 03:02:36.600
there's an alarming amount of people will go

03:02:36.600 --> 03:02:40.200
to the grocery store who really think that their

03:02:40.200 --> 03:02:44.399
their tax dollars is what's buying our food um

03:02:44.399 --> 03:02:49.120
and it's really not but i don't it's it just

03:02:49.120 --> 03:02:51.780
comes down to buying the prisoners food just

03:02:51.780 --> 03:02:53.760
not your fire yeah you're buying the convicts

03:02:53.760 --> 03:02:56.840
you talk about about addressing questions like

03:02:56.840 --> 03:03:00.059
that we actually have that as Wrote that in as

03:03:00.059 --> 03:03:04.760
one of our questions for our entry -level interview

03:03:04.760 --> 03:03:08.180
is what are you going to do when you're approached

03:03:08.180 --> 03:03:12.280
by a citizen asking these type of questions?

03:03:12.520 --> 03:03:15.940
Rare naked joke. That does work. It's very efficient.

03:03:16.540 --> 03:03:18.840
Might be frowned upon. Get the message out. Yeah.

03:03:19.459 --> 03:03:22.659
But it's true because I remember being out and

03:03:22.659 --> 03:03:26.459
having people, they have come to us and their

03:03:26.459 --> 03:03:31.940
assumptions. on what it is that we do are skewed.

03:03:32.139 --> 03:03:36.440
They still have questions on why we take a fire

03:03:36.440 --> 03:03:39.840
engine to a medical call. You know, they don't

03:03:39.840 --> 03:03:43.139
understand. And we try to educate the best we

03:03:43.139 --> 03:03:48.440
can, but a lot of it has been, like I said, Dickie's

03:03:48.440 --> 03:03:51.459
mom still thinks that, you know, going for donuts

03:03:51.459 --> 03:03:53.799
and sitting around playing checkers. because

03:03:53.799 --> 03:03:57.799
that's been the notion for years my family hasn't

03:03:57.799 --> 03:04:00.360
been the notion for years in reality in reality

03:04:00.360 --> 03:04:03.719
so our profession is failing pretty miserably

03:04:03.719 --> 03:04:06.219
educating the people even though we're showing

03:04:06.219 --> 03:04:07.940
up and running on them and they're like oh i

03:04:07.940 --> 03:04:11.139
see there's a engine here because you guys are

03:04:11.139 --> 03:04:14.120
doing cardiac arrest you know cpr and we need

03:04:14.120 --> 03:04:17.079
you guys well yeah so why after decades do they

03:04:17.079 --> 03:04:22.860
still not get it well go for it Think of how

03:04:22.860 --> 03:04:28.600
many classes that we went over and we did put

03:04:28.600 --> 03:04:32.440
the ladder up, open up the cabinets, all the

03:04:32.440 --> 03:04:35.079
kids come out, everybody looks, we explain everything.

03:04:35.899 --> 03:04:38.000
The school tours that come to the station. We

03:04:38.000 --> 03:04:41.600
have been doing this for centuries and they still

03:04:41.600 --> 03:04:44.620
don't get it. I remember as a little boy in Africa

03:04:44.620 --> 03:04:47.059
going to the fire station and being so damn excited

03:04:47.059 --> 03:04:52.239
about it. We do it in Africa too. There's an

03:04:52.239 --> 03:04:55.420
elephant with a bucket on the top. They painted

03:04:55.420 --> 03:05:02.120
it red. I will ask you this. Does your family

03:05:02.120 --> 03:05:05.700
really know what you do for a living? No. So

03:05:05.700 --> 03:05:10.799
why do you expect everybody else to? That's a

03:05:10.799 --> 03:05:17.200
very good point. We don't. We try to go out,

03:05:17.280 --> 03:05:20.659
we put a good face on, and we educate as we can.

03:05:22.139 --> 03:05:29.559
I don't mean to sound futile in it, but when

03:05:29.559 --> 03:05:32.399
your HR department doesn't understand what you

03:05:32.399 --> 03:05:35.319
do, how can your city and your citizens understand?

03:05:36.500 --> 03:05:41.040
I will go to my grave saying this. It's a very

03:05:41.040 --> 03:05:45.739
complex issue. People don't understand. the bond,

03:05:45.879 --> 03:05:51.979
if they can't comprehend the bond, then they

03:05:51.979 --> 03:05:56.739
don't understand it's not a job. Terry tried,

03:05:56.760 --> 03:05:58.459
though. How many hours of lecture did he do?

03:05:58.680 --> 03:06:02.739
Hey, I still try. Hey, I try, Joe. Wrong language,

03:06:02.860 --> 03:06:07.540
though. Let me tell you what I did about six

03:06:07.540 --> 03:06:10.579
months ago. Two in the morning lecture. This

03:06:10.579 --> 03:06:13.329
guy, it was a Sunday morning. And he comes whipping

03:06:13.329 --> 03:06:15.370
down the freeway and he goes by me cutting through.

03:06:16.670 --> 03:06:21.090
And so he gets off at the same off ramp I'm getting

03:06:21.090 --> 03:06:23.389
off on, which is Brookhurst. I'm going over to

03:06:23.389 --> 03:06:27.530
clean my place just like I did today. So I pull

03:06:27.530 --> 03:06:29.489
up next to him and it's a couple of Middle Eastern

03:06:29.489 --> 03:06:34.430
guys in a BMW, in a Mercedes. And I rolled my

03:06:34.430 --> 03:06:38.690
window down and I said, hey, you're going to

03:06:38.690 --> 03:06:44.409
kill somebody. He goes, what? I said, you keep

03:06:44.409 --> 03:06:47.170
driving like that, you're going to kill somebody.

03:06:48.069 --> 03:06:50.889
And it's a lot to live with. You don't want to

03:06:50.889 --> 03:06:53.010
go there. You don't want to see what you're going

03:06:53.010 --> 03:06:57.329
to do. He looks at me, he says, what? I said,

03:06:57.350 --> 03:06:59.729
you just don't want, you don't want to be that

03:06:59.729 --> 03:07:03.229
guy. And he goes, oh, there's two of them in

03:07:03.229 --> 03:07:05.370
a car and they're big guys. And they're all,

03:07:05.469 --> 03:07:08.770
you know, they couldn't believe I was telling

03:07:08.770 --> 03:07:13.020
them to. You know, they don't understand the

03:07:13.020 --> 03:07:16.840
consequences of their actions. I don't get to

03:07:16.840 --> 03:07:19.700
see it every night. It pisses me off to this

03:07:19.700 --> 03:07:22.399
day to see people recklessly do stuff without

03:07:22.399 --> 03:07:25.579
consideration of what could happen. And that's,

03:07:25.579 --> 03:07:28.319
if we talk about manifestation of this job. It

03:07:28.319 --> 03:07:33.159
angers me to... Because you've... Because I know

03:07:33.159 --> 03:07:35.979
the end result. Yeah, I mean, I can think of

03:07:35.979 --> 03:07:38.500
the three gay women that we talked about the

03:07:38.500 --> 03:07:43.319
other day. Basically, the drunk driver killed

03:07:43.319 --> 03:07:46.600
her two best friends. One was crushed in the

03:07:46.600 --> 03:07:48.879
car, the other one I watched gurgle to death.

03:07:49.239 --> 03:07:54.540
And I have the same thing. I've cursed myself

03:07:54.540 --> 03:07:56.579
after because Ty's in the back. And I haven't

03:07:56.579 --> 03:07:59.959
been aggressive to the person, I haven't sworn

03:07:59.959 --> 03:08:02.659
at the person, but I'm like, you are going to

03:08:02.659 --> 03:08:05.899
kill someone. I'm a firefighter, and I've seen

03:08:05.899 --> 03:08:08.420
what happens when you drive like that. I'll tell

03:08:08.420 --> 03:08:10.860
you what happens. You're sobbing on the fucking

03:08:10.860 --> 03:08:13.899
curb while that minivan full of people are dead

03:08:13.899 --> 03:08:16.760
because you drive like a fucking asshole. Right.

03:08:16.819 --> 03:08:19.979
And when I get in people's faces over how they

03:08:19.979 --> 03:08:22.860
drive, my family goes, you can't talk to people

03:08:22.860 --> 03:08:25.760
like that. I'm like, I can't help but not talk

03:08:25.760 --> 03:08:27.760
to people like that. But you're not saying anything

03:08:27.760 --> 03:08:30.819
offensive. Not because of the mouth. No, I just

03:08:30.819 --> 03:08:34.840
told them. Here's a reality check. If you go

03:08:34.840 --> 03:08:36.840
this way, if you keep on going, this is what

03:08:36.840 --> 03:08:39.149
you're doing. you eventually are going to hurt

03:08:39.149 --> 03:08:41.790
somebody beyond recognition. And you're going

03:08:41.790 --> 03:08:44.889
to have to own that for the rest of your life.

03:08:45.450 --> 03:08:47.530
And I really don't think you're considering that

03:08:47.530 --> 03:08:49.530
in the decisions you're making right now. I don't

03:08:49.530 --> 03:08:51.370
think you're ready for that either. Because we've

03:08:51.370 --> 03:08:53.889
been there and it fucking sucks. It does. Real

03:08:53.889 --> 03:08:56.110
quick, James, just to go back to why do so many

03:08:56.110 --> 03:08:58.149
people show up at your house when you call 911?

03:08:58.909 --> 03:09:02.590
I think the general public doesn't quite understand.

03:09:02.670 --> 03:09:04.969
Most of them haven't been a patient in the emergency

03:09:04.969 --> 03:09:08.979
room. But if you go to the emergency room and

03:09:08.979 --> 03:09:13.559
you're being treated by a team, you have how

03:09:13.559 --> 03:09:17.420
many doctors and nurses and ER techs? I think

03:09:17.420 --> 03:09:20.719
it's about 10 to 12 of them in there. And they

03:09:20.719 --> 03:09:26.239
will do the same job that two paramedics, two

03:09:26.239 --> 03:09:29.760
EMTs will do in the field. It takes 10 to 12

03:09:29.760 --> 03:09:32.739
of them in a sterile, relaxed, calm setting.

03:09:33.440 --> 03:09:37.620
To treat a patient and do CPR and start IVs and

03:09:37.620 --> 03:09:39.579
document and do everything else that you're expecting

03:09:39.579 --> 03:09:43.280
a crew of four people to do or six if they have

03:09:43.280 --> 03:09:45.079
the two EMTs in the ambulance. They have double

03:09:45.079 --> 03:09:49.059
the crew in a safe, calm, stable environment

03:09:49.059 --> 03:09:53.860
with good lighting. That is ridiculous. What

03:09:53.860 --> 03:09:57.260
percentage of the public actually utilizes our

03:09:57.260 --> 03:10:03.610
services? Very small percentage. our services

03:10:03.610 --> 03:10:08.290
are utilized, those people, if they were naysayers,

03:10:08.309 --> 03:10:11.870
are not anymore. They realize the benefits of

03:10:11.870 --> 03:10:15.549
our service and what it is that we do. That's

03:10:15.549 --> 03:10:20.409
why I think one of the city councilmen that we

03:10:20.409 --> 03:10:23.670
endorsed that wasn't a huge supporter and we're

03:10:23.670 --> 03:10:25.889
still kind of maybe worried that he might not

03:10:25.889 --> 03:10:30.649
be has utilized our service. Well, that's the

03:10:30.649 --> 03:10:33.790
problem too is How many times, I'm sure everyone

03:10:33.790 --> 03:10:36.430
listening is rolling their eyes now, how many

03:10:36.430 --> 03:10:38.370
times have you heard, well, we've got to justify

03:10:38.370 --> 03:10:42.370
our call load. We've got to pad the calls. No,

03:10:42.389 --> 03:10:45.649
you fucking don't. You don't. You're the insurance

03:10:45.649 --> 03:10:49.729
policy. You only show up when we're really needed.

03:10:49.790 --> 03:10:51.309
So the rest of the time, you shouldn't be running

03:10:51.309 --> 03:10:54.110
bullshit calls. You should be out training and

03:10:54.110 --> 03:10:56.229
working on your ropes and your extrication and

03:10:56.229 --> 03:10:59.069
your confined space and your claps and your trench

03:10:59.069 --> 03:11:03.129
and your EMS. So that when it happens, when that

03:11:03.129 --> 03:11:08.049
dipshit walks into a school or the guy detonates

03:11:08.049 --> 03:11:10.690
their vest in that theme park, that you guys

03:11:10.690 --> 03:11:13.909
are ready. But to run bullshit because, oh, what

03:11:13.909 --> 03:11:15.809
would the public think if we're not running 20

03:11:15.809 --> 03:11:19.389
calls a day is the worst management philosophy

03:11:19.389 --> 03:11:22.430
you can possibly think, in my opinion. Let me

03:11:22.430 --> 03:11:25.049
just interject here, and I'll go on record saying

03:11:25.049 --> 03:11:27.870
this. If you don't want to practice and train

03:11:27.870 --> 03:11:31.069
to prepare for those situations, which are likely

03:11:31.069 --> 03:11:33.610
to come, then I think you need to reconsider

03:11:33.610 --> 03:11:36.870
and maybe find another job because you owe it

03:11:36.870 --> 03:11:39.430
to yourself, you owe it to your partner and your

03:11:39.430 --> 03:11:42.190
crew and your department and the public mainly

03:11:42.190 --> 03:11:46.989
to practice that. That's it. That's all I have

03:11:46.989 --> 03:11:53.600
to say about that. When I hired on in 1978, We

03:11:53.600 --> 03:11:58.540
were a city of about 60 ,000 people. We had nine

03:11:58.540 --> 03:12:06.000
fire stations. We had just over 200 guys. Today

03:12:06.000 --> 03:12:10.360
we have 11 fire stations, probably 360 ,000 people,

03:12:10.559 --> 03:12:14.139
and we still have just over 200 people in the

03:12:14.139 --> 03:12:18.639
department. And what you've just said, I've heard

03:12:18.639 --> 03:12:22.299
in my last apartment, the one before that. is

03:12:22.299 --> 03:12:24.600
and the thing is like i've pointed out this to

03:12:24.600 --> 03:12:27.700
you before to people listening when have you

03:12:27.700 --> 03:12:30.120
ever and you're the perfect person to ask 32

03:12:30.120 --> 03:12:32.579
years when have you ever heard a department of

03:12:32.579 --> 03:12:35.739
politician be like hey terry great news this

03:12:35.739 --> 03:12:39.799
year we're increasing your budget well here's

03:12:39.799 --> 03:12:45.500
the problem and you can i mean it's all related

03:12:45.500 --> 03:12:53.110
to growth and demographics in in california Our

03:12:53.110 --> 03:12:57.129
growth is not in medium or high paying jobs.

03:12:57.610 --> 03:13:01.569
It's in lower paying jobs. So we don't have anybody,

03:13:01.790 --> 03:13:04.829
for the most part, we don't have an increased

03:13:04.829 --> 03:13:08.690
bumper crop of medium income people paying a

03:13:08.690 --> 03:13:15.590
higher level of tax. If you're at near, what

03:13:15.590 --> 03:13:23.680
would it be called? destitute level of income,

03:13:23.799 --> 03:13:26.340
you pay no taxes for the most part. Yeah, because

03:13:26.340 --> 03:13:30.739
you're in that bracket. Yeah. So the influx that

03:13:30.739 --> 03:13:34.159
we've experienced isn't in super -hyping jobs.

03:13:34.319 --> 03:13:35.719
They've chased all those out of the state of

03:13:35.719 --> 03:13:38.379
California. Those jobs are now in Nevada and

03:13:38.379 --> 03:13:45.100
Arizona and everywhere else. Your government

03:13:45.100 --> 03:13:48.579
has to understand that you can't keep chasing

03:13:48.579 --> 03:13:53.360
people away. And when you lose that tax base,

03:13:53.639 --> 03:13:59.260
there's nobody left to pay the increase of what

03:13:59.260 --> 03:14:02.040
we need for a number of people to run the fire

03:14:02.040 --> 03:14:04.500
department. Yeah, and we need it. Police, fire,

03:14:04.680 --> 03:14:08.940
EMS, teachers, you need those. Those are the

03:14:08.940 --> 03:14:14.139
bare minimum. Yeah, I mean, unfortunately, we

03:14:14.139 --> 03:14:16.139
have people running business. I mean, they run

03:14:16.139 --> 03:14:20.139
the state of California as if it's... somebody's

03:14:20.139 --> 03:14:24.280
dog and pony show as most states do yeah and

03:14:24.280 --> 03:14:27.940
i mean and and we've got a new clown we have

03:14:27.940 --> 03:14:31.040
a new clown his name's gavin newsome we got the

03:14:31.040 --> 03:14:34.319
same clown his name's rick scott the same guy

03:14:34.319 --> 03:14:37.399
that slashed the retirement for all the first

03:14:37.399 --> 03:14:39.719
responders and teachers in the state of florida

03:14:39.719 --> 03:14:45.079
i mean you can only do you know you can only

03:14:45.079 --> 03:14:49.879
do so much and They have X amount of money to

03:14:49.879 --> 03:14:52.819
spend and they're only going to give us so much.

03:14:53.139 --> 03:14:58.500
But part of it, you know, part of it is, you

03:14:58.500 --> 03:15:01.360
know, to a certain degree, and I'm going to get

03:15:01.360 --> 03:15:04.959
a lot of blowback on this one probably, but if

03:15:04.959 --> 03:15:10.200
we talk about wages, I'm guessing they've gone

03:15:10.200 --> 03:15:13.440
up a little bit since I've left. I don't think

03:15:13.440 --> 03:15:16.500
so. didn't you say that you were on almost the

03:15:16.500 --> 03:15:18.379
same pay scales when i was there 10 years ago

03:15:18.379 --> 03:15:21.799
what's your base no no they're they're they're

03:15:21.799 --> 03:15:25.280
up more than that okay what's your base now you

03:15:25.280 --> 03:15:27.819
got to be careful with that because there's people

03:15:27.819 --> 03:15:30.200
in certain parts of the country that make a fraction

03:15:30.200 --> 03:15:32.299
of what they make here in california yeah but

03:15:32.299 --> 03:15:34.920
to count that cost of living is ridiculous here

03:15:34.920 --> 03:15:38.079
so it's relative right well i'll give you i'll

03:15:38.079 --> 03:15:44.940
give you an example i mean When I left the fire

03:15:44.940 --> 03:15:50.659
department, a good year would be like 130. With

03:15:50.659 --> 03:15:54.659
overtime? That was my rookie year, but I was...

03:15:54.659 --> 03:15:58.420
I know. I know. That's my point. And that's the

03:15:58.420 --> 03:16:00.959
point I would like to make is... That's for a

03:16:00.959 --> 03:16:06.520
captain. For a captain, nothing. Meaning EMT.

03:16:06.860 --> 03:16:10.100
Yeah. I mean, if I got three or four shifts...

03:16:10.889 --> 03:16:12.510
If I got three shifts a month, I thought I'd

03:16:12.510 --> 03:16:15.950
cut a fat hog, right? So, I mean, you guys get

03:16:15.950 --> 03:16:18.030
a lot more in overtime now than we did at the

03:16:18.030 --> 03:16:20.469
time. But that's not a good thing. That means

03:16:20.469 --> 03:16:22.889
that they're not staffing it properly where these

03:16:22.889 --> 03:16:25.069
guys may be counting their paychecks and thinking

03:16:25.069 --> 03:16:26.770
they're doing well, but then they're getting

03:16:26.770 --> 03:16:32.489
all these diseases. Or they're just whatever,

03:16:32.729 --> 03:16:41.309
you know. Because when you're at... the minimum

03:16:41.309 --> 03:16:44.209
or the minimum standard, you know, for, for whatever

03:16:44.209 --> 03:16:47.209
it is, staffing requirements, you guys have 4

03:16:47.209 --> 03:16:55.389
.0. Um, you can't get around that too much. Number

03:16:55.389 --> 03:17:01.790
two, since we're also in our department, uh,

03:17:02.010 --> 03:17:07.090
an extension of Cal fire now. So we got the type

03:17:07.090 --> 03:17:11.500
threes, the type six is we're getting, uh, What

03:17:11.500 --> 03:17:13.579
the hell is that thing called? Water tender.

03:17:13.620 --> 03:17:17.879
Water tender. You know, so come summertime, come

03:17:17.879 --> 03:17:20.940
fire season, which is year -round, our staffing,

03:17:21.139 --> 03:17:26.680
about 25 to 30 are out in rush. I totally get

03:17:26.680 --> 03:17:32.239
that. And... Call those now like 40, almost 40

03:17:32.239 --> 03:17:37.879
,000. And I think that's... As much part of the

03:17:37.879 --> 03:17:41.079
problem as it is part of the solution, Joe. And

03:17:41.079 --> 03:17:46.040
I would say that I disagree with the fire department

03:17:46.040 --> 03:17:48.399
when they allowed people to carry more than one

03:17:48.399 --> 03:17:56.879
specialty. Because it allows the worst human

03:17:56.879 --> 03:18:04.760
trait that we have to pop its head up and take

03:18:04.760 --> 03:18:08.879
ownership. of what we do as firemen. That's greed.

03:18:08.979 --> 03:18:10.680
Are we talking about redheads? We're talking

03:18:10.680 --> 03:18:14.940
about, yes, greed. Oh, greed. Sorry, James. Sorry,

03:18:15.000 --> 03:18:17.540
I take that back. I don't have red hair. But

03:18:17.540 --> 03:18:21.750
the gentleman I crossed? No, I... I think greed

03:18:21.750 --> 03:18:24.350
is the worst trait that we have as a human species.

03:18:24.790 --> 03:18:27.170
And that's the thing. You cut the hell off the

03:18:27.170 --> 03:18:29.469
snake by staffing your department properly, where

03:18:29.469 --> 03:18:32.690
you can be greedy as you want, but at least that

03:18:32.690 --> 03:18:35.389
overtime comes up periodically instead of every

03:18:35.389 --> 03:18:40.090
single shift. The point being this. When you

03:18:40.090 --> 03:18:44.530
start making an exorbitant amount of money, you

03:18:44.530 --> 03:18:48.620
expect that on a regular basis. And if the department

03:18:48.620 --> 03:18:51.340
were to come in and staff to where you didn't

03:18:51.340 --> 03:18:54.459
make the overtime, you would hear some whining

03:18:54.459 --> 03:18:57.600
like you would not believe. I also don't think

03:18:57.600 --> 03:19:00.340
that when you're talking about the specialties,

03:19:00.340 --> 03:19:03.920
Terry, you don't have a heart surgeon who's also

03:19:03.920 --> 03:19:07.020
an eye surgeon who's also a knee surgeon. Right.

03:19:07.079 --> 03:19:10.020
When you specialize, that means you've taken

03:19:10.020 --> 03:19:13.620
one pathway and you become an industry leader

03:19:13.620 --> 03:19:19.340
or an expert in that. Hang on. I think there

03:19:19.340 --> 03:19:23.219
are very few people that can do that many roles

03:19:23.219 --> 03:19:29.239
that efficiently and that well. I would say this.

03:19:29.920 --> 03:19:34.700
I knew how much work it took to try to train

03:19:34.700 --> 03:19:39.120
for USAR. Joe, you know very well how much it

03:19:39.120 --> 03:19:43.399
takes. It's a full -time job. And it separates

03:19:43.399 --> 03:19:46.379
the USAR from the hazmat. Right. Where I used

03:19:46.379 --> 03:19:49.979
to work, they did that too right and not very

03:19:49.979 --> 03:19:53.079
well so you know basically you do your one week

03:19:53.079 --> 03:19:55.899
training if if you were complacent and there

03:19:55.899 --> 03:19:57.700
were some people that took it seriously and trained

03:19:57.700 --> 03:19:59.899
but if you're complacent that was that one week

03:19:59.899 --> 03:20:02.639
of hazmat or ropes or trench that you did the

03:20:02.639 --> 03:20:05.239
whole year and then you just like all right well

03:20:05.239 --> 03:20:06.860
i don't need to research till next year or two

03:20:06.860 --> 03:20:10.139
years i i like to think i was pretty good at

03:20:10.139 --> 03:20:15.719
what i did and if you were to ask me to be two

03:20:15.719 --> 03:20:21.040
of those items On the menu, a hazmatician, a

03:20:21.040 --> 03:20:24.520
USAR, a medic. If you were to ask me to do two

03:20:24.520 --> 03:20:26.579
things like that, I would tell you that I could

03:20:26.579 --> 03:20:31.280
never do two things like that. I would be lucky

03:20:31.280 --> 03:20:33.959
to do one of them proficiently. And be as good

03:20:33.959 --> 03:20:36.459
as you would expect someone to be if they were

03:20:36.459 --> 03:20:38.920
coming to you. Correct. Now, I know there's people

03:20:38.920 --> 03:20:41.799
out there that there may be one outlier that

03:20:41.799 --> 03:20:46.139
could pull it off. Maybe there's one. But we

03:20:46.139 --> 03:20:48.319
have a tendency to make that one the example

03:20:48.319 --> 03:20:51.500
of how we should live. Because it becomes our

03:20:51.500 --> 03:20:56.760
life. Because you throw 15 % out to somebody

03:20:56.760 --> 03:20:58.780
and say, all you have to do is qualify in this

03:20:58.780 --> 03:21:01.620
area and you're going to get another 15%. So

03:21:01.620 --> 03:21:06.139
what master are we serving? Dollar. We're serving

03:21:06.139 --> 03:21:11.420
the dollar. And so when you lose trust of the

03:21:11.420 --> 03:21:15.680
public, that's part of the problem. I think you

03:21:15.680 --> 03:21:20.379
can be a support operations level. I put myself

03:21:20.379 --> 03:21:22.139
through all the ops classes and tech classes,

03:21:22.280 --> 03:21:25.340
and I've never been on a special ops team. But

03:21:25.340 --> 03:21:26.680
I want to be the guy when you show up, you're

03:21:26.680 --> 03:21:28.120
like, okay, we're going to do a Z rig. Okay,

03:21:28.200 --> 03:21:30.180
at least I know what that is. We're going to

03:21:30.180 --> 03:21:31.819
do trench. We're going to do confined space.

03:21:32.000 --> 03:21:34.180
Well, you can put me on air. I'll go down. I'll

03:21:34.180 --> 03:21:36.760
put them on a sked. I'll pull them out. But I

03:21:36.760 --> 03:21:40.899
never, ever hail as the lead, the expert in that.

03:21:41.200 --> 03:21:43.420
Yeah, are you going to be the guy that... that

03:21:43.420 --> 03:21:46.760
picks the window washer off the... I'll be the

03:21:46.760 --> 03:21:49.600
guy on the line, but someone else has to set

03:21:49.600 --> 03:21:52.860
that system up. Exactly. Who's going to be...

03:21:52.860 --> 03:21:54.799
I want to know who the guy is that's going to

03:21:54.799 --> 03:21:57.520
check all of our hardware and software. That's

03:21:57.520 --> 03:22:01.200
the guy that I want to know. Because I'll tell

03:22:01.200 --> 03:22:03.659
you what, you know what used to keep me awake

03:22:03.659 --> 03:22:09.000
at night? Stinking RS stuff. Talk about scared.

03:22:10.720 --> 03:22:12.799
being responsible for picking somebody off the

03:22:12.799 --> 03:22:15.319
side of a building when he's 120 feet off the

03:22:15.319 --> 03:22:19.040
ground. Be the guy that's going to have to validate

03:22:19.040 --> 03:22:21.600
that knot and that anchor system. Like I said,

03:22:21.639 --> 03:22:24.239
I'll gladly go over the side, but I want, in

03:22:24.239 --> 03:22:26.020
my old place, there was a specific lieutenant

03:22:26.020 --> 03:22:27.860
who was a climber and everything. I want him

03:22:27.860 --> 03:22:30.399
doing the ropes. To tell a funny story along

03:22:30.399 --> 03:22:32.200
that line, I remember being on the USAR team

03:22:32.200 --> 03:22:38.120
and doing a pick -off drill at Disney for one

03:22:38.120 --> 03:22:40.719
of the rides that now they took down. where it

03:22:40.719 --> 03:22:43.200
was people dangling from the side of the ride,

03:22:43.379 --> 03:22:46.899
so we had to go above them from a high point.

03:22:47.079 --> 03:22:49.120
It wasn't a carousel. It was a thing called the

03:22:49.120 --> 03:22:53.260
Malibumer. Oh, the Boomer. Yeah, and it was one

03:22:53.260 --> 03:22:56.139
of our rookies that had been on for a while now

03:22:56.139 --> 03:22:59.620
that was on the ride that was playing the victim.

03:23:00.299 --> 03:23:04.860
So me and another firefighter that was on USAR

03:23:04.860 --> 03:23:07.600
at the time were the ones that went up and did

03:23:07.600 --> 03:23:10.899
the high -angle pickoff. And what type of rope

03:23:10.899 --> 03:23:14.920
were you using? It was a cable, a steel cable.

03:23:17.139 --> 03:23:29.780
Can we deport them? Half inch? No, it was half

03:23:29.780 --> 03:23:33.200
inch. Five inch for sure. Yeah, it was lifeline.

03:23:33.979 --> 03:23:39.969
So, for being rudely interrupted. You and I know

03:23:39.969 --> 03:23:42.129
what's involved with the USAR stuff. They didn't

03:23:42.129 --> 03:23:45.229
quite get as much of that. Well, the bad part

03:23:45.229 --> 03:23:47.250
was I was the one going up. I wasn't supposed

03:23:47.250 --> 03:23:50.309
to for obvious reasons. So someone else that

03:23:50.309 --> 03:23:52.989
couldn't do it, all of a sudden, the one that

03:23:52.989 --> 03:23:55.090
was supposed to do it all of a sudden got mysteriously,

03:23:55.209 --> 03:23:58.729
oh, my back hurts. So I went up to the top. And

03:23:58.729 --> 03:24:00.770
then I'm watching as the guys that were going

03:24:00.770 --> 03:24:04.229
to be doing the Z rig and having to do the haul

03:24:04.229 --> 03:24:07.610
line were being taught. how to set it up while

03:24:07.610 --> 03:24:10.010
I'm up there. And I'm looking like, oh. They

03:24:10.010 --> 03:24:12.270
were going to send you over? I was the one that

03:24:12.270 --> 03:24:13.649
went to the top of it. How the hell did they,

03:24:13.709 --> 03:24:15.649
like, oh, who should we send? Well, because it

03:24:15.649 --> 03:24:19.309
was the one that was supposed to go. Get the

03:24:19.309 --> 03:24:22.629
whale sling. Get the whale. Get the whale sling.

03:24:23.190 --> 03:24:26.989
Oh, that was, remember, that was, that was, what's

03:24:26.989 --> 03:24:29.110
the hands? We got the big heavyset lady that

03:24:29.110 --> 03:24:31.989
was in the hallway. Go get the whale snatcher,

03:24:31.989 --> 03:24:34.370
whale catcher. The whale sling. Whale sling.

03:24:34.370 --> 03:24:37.010
I don't think we called it that. She was over

03:24:37.010 --> 03:24:39.350
there crying. But yeah, that was a little nerve

03:24:39.350 --> 03:24:41.510
wracking because I was like, oh my. But if you

03:24:41.510 --> 03:24:44.870
think of it, if you think of it like. The best

03:24:44.870 --> 03:24:47.750
part was, it was one of. I'm talking. Shut up.

03:24:48.510 --> 03:24:52.170
The guy that was Bosley that was going to get

03:24:52.170 --> 03:24:55.149
picked off. And it was one of the guys that I

03:24:55.149 --> 03:24:58.930
work with. He's over there doing the harness.

03:24:59.370 --> 03:25:02.079
And he looks at me and he. Has me go over and

03:25:02.079 --> 03:25:04.879
go, hey, does this look right? You good with

03:25:04.879 --> 03:25:07.979
this? Do you guys know what you're doing? Oh,

03:25:08.040 --> 03:25:10.760
dude. He talked about a lack of confidence. Went

03:25:10.760 --> 03:25:14.760
up the window. No. But it's one of those things

03:25:14.760 --> 03:25:17.040
like your ability. I mentioned earlier your ability

03:25:17.040 --> 03:25:22.120
to self -evaluate. This is a job that we do where

03:25:22.120 --> 03:25:24.340
you'll be asked to put yourself in situations.

03:25:25.559 --> 03:25:28.139
That scare the living shit out of your average

03:25:28.139 --> 03:25:30.319
population. And it's not just, oh, everyone says,

03:25:30.379 --> 03:25:32.739
oh, you run into burning buildings. How many

03:25:32.739 --> 03:25:34.760
people do you know that are afraid to be in an

03:25:34.760 --> 03:25:38.340
elevator or confined space? We'll have to do

03:25:38.340 --> 03:25:40.100
that. How many people are afraid of the dark?

03:25:40.260 --> 03:25:43.120
Or heights. Or being heights, especially. Or

03:25:43.120 --> 03:25:47.299
fire. Or a snake. Or seeing blood and guts and

03:25:47.299 --> 03:25:49.879
bones. Or swift water or anything like that.

03:25:50.319 --> 03:25:52.760
You're afraid of reptiles, aren't you? Snakes?

03:25:53.879 --> 03:25:58.319
No. He's not afraid of them. He's got an insatiable

03:25:58.319 --> 03:26:02.200
desire for them. I've never had much experience

03:26:02.200 --> 03:26:04.620
with your American snakes. I don't know which

03:26:04.620 --> 03:26:07.180
ones are poisonous or not. The African ones,

03:26:07.360 --> 03:26:11.379
they all are, so you just stay away. But yeah,

03:26:11.500 --> 03:26:15.319
the general expectation of the public is if you

03:26:15.319 --> 03:26:19.819
call 911, someone's going to show up and take

03:26:19.819 --> 03:26:21.979
care of your problems. And that's not a mantle

03:26:21.979 --> 03:26:27.420
that we wear lightly. So I think a lot of the

03:26:27.420 --> 03:26:31.940
public don't realize quite what it takes. You

03:26:31.940 --> 03:26:35.799
kind of have to be scared of nothing. You got

03:26:35.799 --> 03:26:39.639
to be able to, if you are, you're afraid. That's

03:26:39.639 --> 03:26:41.399
the bottom line. Yeah, you're afraid. There's

03:26:41.399 --> 03:26:43.379
no doubt that you're afraid. But you can't let

03:26:43.379 --> 03:26:46.979
it overcome you and take you away from what you

03:26:46.979 --> 03:26:49.459
need to do. Any fireman who tells you that he's

03:26:49.459 --> 03:26:53.020
not afraid of fire or burning, he's lying to

03:26:53.020 --> 03:26:56.959
you. That's the bottom line. The thing is, too,

03:26:57.059 --> 03:27:00.559
with a lot of us is ego. And being able to put

03:27:00.559 --> 03:27:04.579
that ego in check and be humble doing this job

03:27:04.579 --> 03:27:09.620
and say, yeah, I am afraid. I am nervous. But

03:27:09.620 --> 03:27:12.420
we take these calculated risks. I feel comfortable

03:27:12.420 --> 03:27:15.979
because of the people I have next to me and because

03:27:15.979 --> 03:27:18.799
of my knowledge and my experience. And that's

03:27:18.799 --> 03:27:20.840
the whole point of James getting us together

03:27:20.840 --> 03:27:24.629
here is that crew... Cohesion. cohesion or continuity

03:27:24.629 --> 03:27:28.069
is that i'm sitting in a room with the biggest

03:27:28.069 --> 03:27:32.850
strongest guy that i know and i knew every time

03:27:32.850 --> 03:27:34.610
on a call if something happened if there was

03:27:34.610 --> 03:27:37.149
a collapse or something joe would be able to

03:27:37.149 --> 03:27:40.229
lift a truck off of me and if something bad happened

03:27:40.229 --> 03:27:44.090
terry would know what to do and if there was

03:27:44.090 --> 03:27:46.370
a really cute handsome guy then james would be

03:27:46.370 --> 03:27:49.719
able to get his phone number so it was all We

03:27:49.719 --> 03:27:52.540
were all taken care of. I didn't worry about

03:27:52.540 --> 03:27:54.180
anything. The only thing that sucked about working

03:27:54.180 --> 03:27:55.799
with James was every time we did an inspection

03:27:55.799 --> 03:27:58.340
at a dental office, it took forever. Yes, they'd

03:27:58.340 --> 03:28:00.819
corner him and hand in our business cards and

03:28:00.819 --> 03:28:02.860
have you thought about oral surgery and what

03:28:02.860 --> 03:28:05.000
about braces? Do you remember the time we had

03:28:05.000 --> 03:28:08.420
to do an inspection at Golden Corral? That took

03:28:08.420 --> 03:28:11.760
hours. I thought it was a joke for three days.

03:28:11.799 --> 03:28:14.000
I thought that was hometown. Wasn't it the hometown?

03:28:21.649 --> 03:28:24.670
Oh, gosh. That was great. I had a great time,

03:28:24.690 --> 03:28:28.629
though. That was the best. Yeah. Well, it's always

03:28:28.629 --> 03:28:33.170
based on everybody should always have a little

03:28:33.170 --> 03:28:37.090
bit of a small amount of pucker factor. You have

03:28:37.090 --> 03:28:39.809
to. Small amount. If you don't, you're going

03:28:39.809 --> 03:28:42.090
to get yourself or someone else hurt. You should

03:28:42.090 --> 03:28:43.950
always have a little bit. I mean, not a lot,

03:28:43.969 --> 03:28:46.290
but a little bit. Because you should never be

03:28:46.290 --> 03:28:48.670
entering into a situation that you're not sure

03:28:48.670 --> 03:28:52.649
that you're going to have a good result with.

03:28:54.690 --> 03:29:00.110
That's why every year we go into fire season,

03:29:00.250 --> 03:29:05.430
I got to tell you, I get so pissed off every

03:29:05.430 --> 03:29:10.750
year in fire season. I'll have friends say, oh,

03:29:10.850 --> 03:29:12.809
it was terrible that happened to those guys at

03:29:12.809 --> 03:29:17.139
yada, yada, yada. And I look at them and I go,

03:29:17.239 --> 03:29:20.500
there's absolutely no reason that 12 guys should

03:29:20.500 --> 03:29:25.979
die. There's no reason ever that we go out in

03:29:25.979 --> 03:29:29.559
the wild land and we kill guys. They said, what

03:29:29.559 --> 03:29:32.959
do you mean? I said, we have how many rules and

03:29:32.959 --> 03:29:35.219
laws and all that bullshit that we have that

03:29:35.219 --> 03:29:38.219
we're supposed to memorize every year? You know

03:29:38.219 --> 03:29:40.600
what? Let me tell you. Let me tell you. It's

03:29:40.600 --> 03:29:43.559
all bullshit. You could count up to whatever

03:29:43.559 --> 03:29:46.860
you want. If you're going to continue to send

03:29:46.860 --> 03:29:51.319
people out understaffed to do the job, then what

03:29:51.319 --> 03:29:53.520
are you expecting people to do? Oh, wait a second,

03:29:53.659 --> 03:29:56.860
Terry. But President Trump, he laid down the

03:29:56.860 --> 03:29:59.500
smackdown and told us that if forestry doesn't

03:29:59.500 --> 03:30:02.020
pull their thumb out their ass, then the way

03:30:02.020 --> 03:30:04.020
to fix the fact that people are being burned

03:30:04.020 --> 03:30:05.860
to death was that we just cut all the budget.

03:30:07.200 --> 03:30:11.520
What he's saying is... is that you cannot continue

03:30:11.520 --> 03:30:18.600
to let the green side of your party run your

03:30:18.600 --> 03:30:22.000
forestry department and set the rules. Do you

03:30:22.000 --> 03:30:23.840
think the forestry department had the resources?

03:30:24.079 --> 03:30:27.639
I will tell you this, James, that many years

03:30:27.639 --> 03:30:30.319
ago, we didn't kill 10 or 20 people every year

03:30:30.319 --> 03:30:33.120
in wildland fires because we had clear -cut areas.

03:30:34.079 --> 03:30:38.280
We had wide swaths across the mountains. that

03:30:38.280 --> 03:30:40.420
when the fire would come through and you could

03:30:40.420 --> 03:30:42.340
burn back then. Well, as I'm saying, so do you

03:30:42.340 --> 03:30:45.680
think it's the people that work for forestry

03:30:45.680 --> 03:30:47.459
or you think it's the red tape that's got in

03:30:47.459 --> 03:30:53.000
the way that's killing our people? It's more

03:30:53.000 --> 03:30:58.180
than one thing. First off, we send people out

03:30:58.180 --> 03:31:02.760
and we require these bullshit positions, these

03:31:02.760 --> 03:31:06.500
paper tiger positions that we don't fill. Lookouts.

03:31:07.340 --> 03:31:10.180
When did they ever put look? When does a lookout

03:31:10.180 --> 03:31:12.799
go out? He's actually assigned to a rig where

03:31:12.799 --> 03:31:15.000
he's actually looking out. Well, actually, the

03:31:15.000 --> 03:31:16.819
press got fired. The only guy that survived,

03:31:17.079 --> 03:31:20.200
Brendan McDonald, was a lookout. He was one of

03:31:20.200 --> 03:31:23.440
20 guys that survived. And that's the thing.

03:31:23.959 --> 03:31:26.700
But you're supposed to have lookouts for the

03:31:26.700 --> 03:31:28.620
lookouts, and you're having all these positions

03:31:28.620 --> 03:31:30.639
that you're supposed to fill. Your brothers and

03:31:30.639 --> 03:31:34.120
sisters are there working their asses off, and

03:31:34.120 --> 03:31:37.299
you're sitting up on a hill. staring at the fire

03:31:37.299 --> 03:31:41.420
two miles away. Do you want to be up on that

03:31:41.420 --> 03:31:43.120
hill or do you want to be down there working

03:31:43.120 --> 03:31:44.479
with the rest of your crew? You don't want to

03:31:44.479 --> 03:31:46.260
be, but you're probably the most important person

03:31:46.260 --> 03:31:51.479
on that whole team. True. It's a very necessary

03:31:51.479 --> 03:31:54.420
component of that team. All I can say is this.

03:31:54.940 --> 03:31:56.659
I think what you're talking about is the management

03:31:56.659 --> 03:32:00.870
teams. Yeah. The staff. They put people, they

03:32:00.870 --> 03:32:04.450
send people into untenable situations. They send

03:32:04.450 --> 03:32:07.510
them up on roads that they shouldn't be going

03:32:07.510 --> 03:32:14.750
up on. And then they expect these guys, they

03:32:14.750 --> 03:32:21.090
expect them, James, just like our department

03:32:21.090 --> 03:32:25.629
and our dispatching system expects me to go out

03:32:25.629 --> 03:32:34.760
and... resolve a young child in a car. The same

03:32:34.760 --> 03:32:41.579
way. They expect the same thing. They send those

03:32:41.579 --> 03:32:44.680
people up. Yeah, well, that's a mid -slope road.

03:32:46.200 --> 03:32:48.659
Right? It's one of the things we're just not

03:32:48.659 --> 03:32:51.979
supposed to go up mid -slope roads. Right? Right.

03:32:53.459 --> 03:32:55.020
We're not supposed to be doing that sort of thing.

03:32:55.520 --> 03:32:57.000
Well, that's the only way to get up the hill.

03:32:58.970 --> 03:33:03.850
Well, you contact the battalion car and go, hey,

03:33:03.870 --> 03:33:06.149
what's the deal with this deal here? And they're

03:33:06.149 --> 03:33:07.170
going to say, well, do you want to go or not?

03:33:09.049 --> 03:33:11.129
You plan on coming back out in the future to

03:33:11.129 --> 03:33:15.450
work wildland situations? If you do, you're going

03:33:15.450 --> 03:33:17.530
to go up that road, right? The work's a lot different,

03:33:17.610 --> 03:33:21.010
too, now. They put all that we're doing, hot

03:33:21.010 --> 03:33:24.170
shot work. They're doing a bunch of hot shot

03:33:24.170 --> 03:33:28.149
work, the type threes, and they're doing... Hard

03:33:28.149 --> 03:33:29.829
physical labor. No more structure protection

03:33:29.829 --> 03:33:34.770
type of stuff either. Right. Right. But along

03:33:34.770 --> 03:33:41.649
with that, in California, how many times have

03:33:41.649 --> 03:33:44.469
you, I mean, I can't imagine. I mean, I knew

03:33:44.469 --> 03:33:47.350
when I was in the fire department 10 years, 10

03:33:47.350 --> 03:33:50.190
years ago, eight years ago, something like that.

03:33:50.290 --> 03:33:54.190
Eight years ago. They would say we can't burn

03:33:54.190 --> 03:33:57.440
today because AQMD. That was eight years ago.

03:33:58.100 --> 03:34:01.260
AQMD is Air Quality Management District. It's

03:34:01.260 --> 03:34:04.899
still like that. The only places that they can

03:34:04.899 --> 03:34:08.739
burn would be federal land like down near the

03:34:08.739 --> 03:34:12.139
beach. I thought AQMD was all Queens marry Dickie.

03:34:12.920 --> 03:34:15.600
How did you come up with that shit that quick?

03:34:16.239 --> 03:34:19.120
You sit there and you think of this shit all

03:34:19.120 --> 03:34:21.680
day so you can bring it up and then sound smart,

03:34:21.799 --> 03:34:24.600
but you're not, and I know it. So instead of

03:34:24.600 --> 03:34:27.620
going out and actually burning land, instead

03:34:27.620 --> 03:34:30.360
of actually burning land that we should be burning

03:34:30.360 --> 03:34:33.000
every so often, they can't burn it because of

03:34:33.000 --> 03:34:36.440
AQMD. Yeah, and that's the thing. We all know

03:34:36.440 --> 03:34:39.379
that. natural you know circle of life yeah it

03:34:39.379 --> 03:34:41.079
has to burn every once in a while i have to talk

03:34:41.079 --> 03:34:43.120
into the mic but you can talk from back there

03:34:43.120 --> 03:34:46.079
all right let me do it again because we all know

03:34:46.079 --> 03:34:51.940
you know the the natural cycle is that wildland

03:34:51.940 --> 03:34:56.040
burns but the problem is that we put housing

03:34:56.040 --> 03:34:58.459
in that and we put housing on cliff sides and

03:34:58.459 --> 03:35:00.659
we put housing in louisiana that's below the

03:35:00.659 --> 03:35:03.959
sea level it's not blaming people we're a very

03:35:03.959 --> 03:35:06.860
crowded area in certain areas but That's the

03:35:06.860 --> 03:35:10.200
reality is if we're going to put homes in places

03:35:10.200 --> 03:35:12.100
that are uber dangerous, you've got to understand

03:35:12.100 --> 03:35:15.379
that we're going to have to mitigate the area

03:35:15.379 --> 03:35:17.079
around it to make it safer for the residents.

03:35:18.459 --> 03:35:22.360
Paradise is a good example of that. Paradise

03:35:22.360 --> 03:35:29.159
was a one -way in, one -way out area. Can you

03:35:29.159 --> 03:35:32.680
imagine? Every time I would challenge people

03:35:32.680 --> 03:35:34.899
that when you look at those news reports and

03:35:34.899 --> 03:35:36.840
you see all those vehicles sitting in the middle

03:35:36.840 --> 03:35:39.620
of roads, ask yourself, how does the fire equipment

03:35:39.620 --> 03:35:43.620
get in or get out? It doesn't. Yeah, okay, so

03:35:43.620 --> 03:35:45.219
we'll do a little public service announcement

03:35:45.219 --> 03:35:48.899
here. If you're asked to evacuate, please leave

03:35:48.899 --> 03:35:52.219
then. Because when people are coming in to protect

03:35:52.219 --> 03:35:54.260
your property and you're trying to leave and

03:35:54.260 --> 03:35:56.680
it's too late, we can't get in. And your two

03:35:56.680 --> 03:35:59.059
gallons a minute coming out of your garden hose

03:35:59.059 --> 03:36:02.200
is not going to stop the fire if our 500 gallons

03:36:02.200 --> 03:36:06.360
a minute can't. You know, I live in an area that's

03:36:06.360 --> 03:36:10.860
called the urban interface in Yorba Linda. Right?

03:36:12.719 --> 03:36:15.969
I'm in the interface. And the County of Orange

03:36:15.969 --> 03:36:17.930
has their people up in the interface checking

03:36:17.930 --> 03:36:23.110
setbacks, checking all that stuff. If you went

03:36:23.110 --> 03:36:28.209
in and saw, I'm guessing, the foliage that was

03:36:28.209 --> 03:36:31.370
right in people's backyards, right up next to

03:36:31.370 --> 03:36:34.770
the houses, these big pine trees in those neighborhoods.

03:36:35.069 --> 03:36:37.090
You know, when you see the burn and you look

03:36:37.090 --> 03:36:41.149
at the trees sitting there, you're going, it's

03:36:41.149 --> 03:36:44.329
unsustainable. There's no way you could have

03:36:44.329 --> 03:36:47.870
protected a large portion of those homes. Just

03:36:47.870 --> 03:36:50.090
look at the videos of Christmas trees burning.

03:36:50.389 --> 03:36:54.030
Yeah. That's just a small, single, six -foot

03:36:54.030 --> 03:36:57.190
tree that's an inferno. The guys that were there

03:36:57.190 --> 03:36:59.409
in paradise, that thing was burning at an acre

03:36:59.409 --> 03:37:02.770
a second. That thing was burning. Okay, when

03:37:02.770 --> 03:37:07.309
I used to, I was a decent runner. A decent runner.

03:37:07.409 --> 03:37:12.709
I could run pretty decent. I talked to a guy

03:37:12.709 --> 03:37:16.110
who told me that you would have to be able to

03:37:16.110 --> 03:37:18.389
run from one end of the track to the other in

03:37:18.389 --> 03:37:21.809
15 seconds, the football field, in 15 seconds

03:37:21.809 --> 03:37:25.549
to stay ahead of that fire in flat ground. You

03:37:25.549 --> 03:37:28.450
weren't going to outrun that fire. That's like

03:37:28.450 --> 03:37:32.450
Dickie. Here we go. Joe Jason off to a burrito

03:37:32.450 --> 03:37:38.909
truck. Oh, wow. That was quick. See how quickly

03:37:38.909 --> 03:37:41.989
I did that? I'm sniggering like a child. That's

03:37:41.989 --> 03:37:44.790
like Dickie running towards George Michael. But

03:37:44.790 --> 03:37:48.069
there's no way. Album release. There's absolutely

03:37:48.069 --> 03:37:50.530
no flipping way you're going to outrun that for

03:37:50.530 --> 03:37:54.780
maybe more than a mile. If you're in great shape.

03:37:54.959 --> 03:37:57.940
You also had a brush with the wildfire, was it

03:37:57.940 --> 03:38:01.639
2007, 2008? Yeah. In your neighborhood. Yeah.

03:38:01.700 --> 03:38:03.360
With your home. That was the freeway complex

03:38:03.360 --> 03:38:07.120
fire. With a flash hood and a brush coat. I don't

03:38:07.120 --> 03:38:09.420
know. That's a lot. I might have had a flash

03:38:09.420 --> 03:38:13.120
hood. You did have a flash hood. Okay. I had

03:38:13.120 --> 03:38:24.909
a mustache and a flash hood. And I'll tell you,

03:38:24.969 --> 03:38:26.969
to this day, that was the most frustrating experience

03:38:26.969 --> 03:38:30.270
in the fire service I think I've ever had. Was

03:38:30.270 --> 03:38:33.850
dragging three -inch hose to make a hand line

03:38:33.850 --> 03:38:38.500
out of a three -inch hose. i remember calling

03:38:38.500 --> 03:38:41.459
you on your cell phone i was in chicago on a

03:38:41.459 --> 03:38:44.360
weekend getaway and i don't know why it happened

03:38:44.360 --> 03:38:47.799
to be that weekend but i remember seeing it on

03:38:47.799 --> 03:38:50.379
the news i called because i said it was by your

03:38:50.379 --> 03:38:53.819
where you live and i called your cell phone there

03:38:53.819 --> 03:38:56.579
was no answer and i called the house phone and

03:38:56.579 --> 03:38:59.680
patty answered and she sounded stressed and she

03:38:59.680 --> 03:39:08.239
said we need help and i'm like in chicago um

03:39:08.239 --> 03:39:11.139
but i tried my best to change a flight and come

03:39:11.139 --> 03:39:14.280
back then but it would have been too late anyway

03:39:14.280 --> 03:39:16.159
it was just horrible sitting there knowing that

03:39:16.159 --> 03:39:19.219
guys that i cared about were struggling and you

03:39:19.219 --> 03:39:21.540
know it's just no help the most frustrating part

03:39:21.540 --> 03:39:26.899
richard was having battalion chief cars come

03:39:26.899 --> 03:39:29.600
through the neighborhood and i would say can

03:39:29.600 --> 03:39:32.239
you all we need is a couple units up here and

03:39:32.239 --> 03:39:37.770
we can take care of a lot of this All the resources

03:39:37.770 --> 03:39:42.809
were staged on the Palmer. And so I would ask

03:39:42.809 --> 03:39:47.450
anybody out there who's got common sense from

03:39:47.450 --> 03:39:50.350
here on out to stage their vehicles at the top

03:39:50.350 --> 03:39:52.350
of the hill because you can go a hell of a lot

03:39:52.350 --> 03:39:56.149
faster downhill than you can up. Put the resources,

03:39:56.329 --> 03:39:59.530
at least some of your resources, at the top of

03:39:59.530 --> 03:40:02.329
the hill where you can see shit instead of the

03:40:02.329 --> 03:40:04.190
bottom of the hill where you don't have a clue

03:40:04.190 --> 03:40:08.110
where you're going. And, I mean, Jamie Hirsch

03:40:08.110 --> 03:40:11.430
was one of them. I had all kinds of people driving

03:40:11.430 --> 03:40:13.590
through the neighborhood, and I'd say, can't

03:40:13.590 --> 03:40:19.010
we just get one unit up here? I got Houghton

03:40:19.010 --> 03:40:21.829
pulling a three -inch hose with a smoothbore

03:40:21.829 --> 03:40:25.389
on it for structure protection. A three -inch

03:40:25.389 --> 03:40:27.850
for hand line, because they were all out of...

03:40:28.159 --> 03:40:30.579
Hand -lined material. Off an engine? Off an engine.

03:40:30.760 --> 03:40:33.120
Off an engine. So you've got what? Orange County.

03:40:33.719 --> 03:40:36.739
47 seconds of protection before you run out of...

03:40:36.739 --> 03:40:40.239
Yeah, I mean, we had one Orange County unit.

03:40:40.319 --> 03:40:42.979
We had one LA County unit in our neighborhood.

03:40:43.659 --> 03:40:49.139
And it was just... It was frustrating as can

03:40:49.139 --> 03:40:51.600
be. How many houses on your street were lost?

03:40:51.840 --> 03:40:57.680
Oh. 25, probably. And there's no reason for that.

03:40:58.000 --> 03:41:00.479
You know, the reason for it was they chased everybody

03:41:00.479 --> 03:41:06.760
out of town. They chased everybody out. I'm going

03:41:06.760 --> 03:41:08.340
to give you the biggest pearl I learned from

03:41:08.340 --> 03:41:13.079
that experience. This is something that I never,

03:41:13.159 --> 03:41:19.700
ever considered all of my fire career. I never

03:41:19.700 --> 03:41:25.260
came to weigh in. I had a fire on my property.

03:41:27.370 --> 03:41:32.049
And it never quite clicked for me. But when the

03:41:32.049 --> 03:41:35.590
Santa Ana winds blow, no matter where you live,

03:41:35.829 --> 03:41:38.409
they leave a pile of debris somewhere in your

03:41:38.409 --> 03:41:44.469
house. And it's the same place every time. Because

03:41:44.469 --> 03:41:46.629
the winds blow the same way on the Santa Anas

03:41:46.629 --> 03:41:50.069
all the time. And your house is constructed in

03:41:50.069 --> 03:41:55.959
a way that... That there's a certain location

03:41:55.959 --> 03:41:59.959
on your property that drops all the debris. Pretty

03:41:59.959 --> 03:42:01.899
much. Only going to be one or two spots in your

03:42:01.899 --> 03:42:05.000
house. Well, guess where the burning brands drop?

03:42:07.239 --> 03:42:13.159
They drop where the shit gets dropped. Oh, where

03:42:13.159 --> 03:42:15.159
all the other leaves have piled up and everywhere

03:42:15.159 --> 03:42:18.200
else too. That's right. It all goes to the same

03:42:18.200 --> 03:42:22.319
place. I learned that that night. I learned that

03:42:22.319 --> 03:42:24.520
that day that at the dead end around my pool

03:42:24.520 --> 03:42:27.260
house where all the debris piles up, guess where

03:42:27.260 --> 03:42:32.540
the fire started? Right there. Did you ever think

03:42:32.540 --> 03:42:34.659
that you'd be fighting a fire in your own home

03:42:34.659 --> 03:42:39.780
with no help? I never considered that the burning

03:42:39.780 --> 03:42:41.819
brands would go to the same place as the debris

03:42:41.819 --> 03:42:45.750
pile. Never considered that. In 30 -some years

03:42:45.750 --> 03:42:49.510
of firefighting experience, the thought never

03:42:49.510 --> 03:42:53.209
crossed my mind. And that's because Terry worked

03:42:53.209 --> 03:42:56.610
on a truck his entire career. What I would tell

03:42:56.610 --> 03:42:59.750
my neighbors is, you know where that debris pile

03:42:59.750 --> 03:43:02.909
is because it's out there. Walk around, find

03:43:02.909 --> 03:43:06.750
your debris pile, scoop it up, put it in a trash

03:43:06.750 --> 03:43:08.350
can, leave your garden hose close by where that

03:43:08.350 --> 03:43:11.239
debris pile is, and you'll be fine. But instead

03:43:11.239 --> 03:43:12.540
they chased everybody out of the neighborhoods

03:43:12.540 --> 03:43:16.620
where you're losing houses because nobody's there

03:43:16.620 --> 03:43:18.799
to protect it. Yeah, mitigate it when it was

03:43:18.799 --> 03:43:22.780
just starting. Yeah. Can you imagine when the

03:43:22.780 --> 03:43:26.899
Germans invaded France? If we'd have said, everybody

03:43:26.899 --> 03:43:30.280
run away. Yeah, let me tell you. Exactly. Save

03:43:30.280 --> 03:43:34.120
the day. Exactly. The boys are here. Yeah. Stand

03:43:34.120 --> 03:43:41.200
down. Point being. The clerk and the boys. Point

03:43:41.200 --> 03:43:45.459
being, don't leave somebody else to do your dirty

03:43:45.459 --> 03:43:49.559
work. Take care of it yourself. And again, personal

03:43:49.559 --> 03:43:52.700
responsibility. Ownership. Take ownership of

03:43:52.700 --> 03:43:54.760
your property. Don't let anybody chase you out

03:43:54.760 --> 03:43:57.040
of the neighborhood because they say it's dangerous.

03:43:58.440 --> 03:44:00.879
What's different between Orvalinda and the movie

03:44:00.879 --> 03:44:05.680
versus Paradise? You're around a forest. Overgrown

03:44:05.680 --> 03:44:08.399
and there's no way out. Oh, yeah. Totally. Totally.

03:44:08.500 --> 03:44:11.040
I totally get that. I mean, you look at Paradise

03:44:11.040 --> 03:44:13.920
and there's no comparison. They're building houses

03:44:13.920 --> 03:44:18.420
in the middle of flipping forest. Not sure how

03:44:18.420 --> 03:44:20.579
you ever figured that was going to be defendable.

03:44:20.680 --> 03:44:22.959
Well, it's called Paradise. Yeah. Well, I saw,

03:44:23.040 --> 03:44:25.239
you know, there was like four Garden Grove retired

03:44:25.239 --> 03:44:30.379
guys living up there. Oh, really? Yeah, we're

03:44:30.379 --> 03:44:33.120
missing between the two fires, what? Close to

03:44:33.120 --> 03:44:37.819
200 people. No, no, no. 600 people. Yeah, they're

03:44:37.819 --> 03:44:42.000
up to 80 whatever now. 12 ,000 homes leveled.

03:44:42.819 --> 03:44:47.319
The thing of it was that struck me was an interview

03:44:47.319 --> 03:44:52.739
I saw with a guy. And it's always the frankness

03:44:52.739 --> 03:44:54.280
of the people that live there in the community.

03:44:54.860 --> 03:44:58.500
He goes, yeah. He said, I always knew it would

03:44:58.500 --> 03:45:01.620
burn. I just didn't know when. Because he said.

03:45:02.260 --> 03:45:06.520
It's really ripe. This area was really ripe with

03:45:06.520 --> 03:45:09.420
the canopy. If you haven't had rain for years

03:45:09.420 --> 03:45:11.379
and you know that the brush is getting dense

03:45:11.379 --> 03:45:14.959
and it's all dead. Well, it's that and our policy.

03:45:15.059 --> 03:45:17.500
It's our policy. I mean, we could go on and on

03:45:17.500 --> 03:45:21.319
about our policies in California, but when you

03:45:21.319 --> 03:45:27.819
have 20 million dead trees out in the forest

03:45:27.819 --> 03:45:30.600
that they won't harvest. They won't harvest.

03:45:30.760 --> 03:45:32.739
They're going to leave that crap laying around.

03:45:34.219 --> 03:45:39.420
And I don't mean for... I'm not concerned about

03:45:39.420 --> 03:45:43.059
the forest fire at this point. I want you to

03:45:43.059 --> 03:45:47.200
think about something. I want you to think about

03:45:47.200 --> 03:45:51.899
widow makers. Snags. You got trees that have

03:45:51.899 --> 03:45:57.120
been dead for decades sitting in the forest that

03:45:57.120 --> 03:45:58.969
are just... And what are these winds doing? They're

03:45:58.969 --> 03:46:01.750
blowing through at 50, 60 mile an hour. The roots

03:46:01.750 --> 03:46:04.969
are getting burned up. The roots have decayed.

03:46:06.229 --> 03:46:12.170
There's X amount of surface tension on the trees

03:46:12.170 --> 03:46:15.389
when the wind's blowing by. And what are we doing?

03:46:15.489 --> 03:46:19.370
We're out there working the fire. We're walking

03:46:19.370 --> 03:46:22.629
around, not paying attention to what? Dropping

03:46:22.629 --> 03:46:26.590
trees. It kills a lot of them. It kills some

03:46:26.590 --> 03:46:29.129
of them every year. And then the foals got that

03:46:29.129 --> 03:46:32.670
one guy. Was he L .A. County? That fell down

03:46:32.670 --> 03:46:35.510
the side and then got burned up. Cal Fire. Cal

03:46:35.510 --> 03:46:39.909
Fire. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's just, when you

03:46:39.909 --> 03:46:43.590
think of that. Yeah, I mean, you think of the

03:46:43.590 --> 03:46:48.729
needless loss of life out there. I struggle with

03:46:48.729 --> 03:46:53.780
that. Yeah. All right, well, let's. Let's wrap

03:46:53.780 --> 03:46:56.340
it up. We've been going for almost four hours.

03:46:56.440 --> 03:46:59.340
I don't know if you guys realize. Four hours.

03:47:00.159 --> 03:47:06.479
So I just want to say thank you for your candidness,

03:47:06.520 --> 03:47:08.799
your vulnerability on some of the stories, on

03:47:08.799 --> 03:47:12.579
the laughs. I literally, like I said, almost

03:47:12.579 --> 03:47:16.659
wet myself at certain times. At my expense. And

03:47:16.659 --> 03:47:23.319
Dickie's. But yeah, I mean, this is, to me, You

03:47:23.319 --> 03:47:25.840
want to take a cross -section of the fire service

03:47:25.840 --> 03:47:29.799
and a crew that I think is kind of the epitome

03:47:29.799 --> 03:47:32.780
of where we're supposed to be. This is it. This

03:47:32.780 --> 03:47:36.760
has been nothing but pleasure and honor to sit

03:47:36.760 --> 03:47:42.620
down 10 years later and look back and say, for

03:47:42.620 --> 03:47:45.319
Terry, he's retired. For us, we're 10 years into

03:47:45.319 --> 03:47:48.200
our career. And kind of look at that cross -section

03:47:48.200 --> 03:47:52.659
and be retrospective about... all the things

03:47:52.659 --> 03:47:54.700
that we love and this isn't a pity party but

03:47:54.700 --> 03:47:58.319
the toll of the service and the reality is you

03:47:58.319 --> 03:48:00.399
know some of these areas that we can improve

03:48:00.399 --> 03:48:03.100
whether it's what we do whether it's the wild

03:48:03.100 --> 03:48:06.000
land we're talking about at the end but um yeah

03:48:06.000 --> 03:48:09.500
it's it's been amazing so thank you for you know

03:48:09.500 --> 03:48:13.280
taking the time thank you thank you for thinking

03:48:13.280 --> 03:48:15.399
about us and doing something like that yeah thanks

03:48:15.399 --> 03:48:18.690
for coming out yeah probably the best time we

03:48:18.690 --> 03:48:21.409
had i had personally was getting promoted and

03:48:21.409 --> 03:48:25.329
working with this crew uh i woke up this morning

03:48:25.329 --> 03:48:28.370
i felt like a kid on christmas morning knowing

03:48:28.370 --> 03:48:30.370
i was gonna get to unwrap gifts knowing that

03:48:30.370 --> 03:48:33.350
this was coming tonight um i've been looking

03:48:33.350 --> 03:48:35.850
forward to this for a long time so i was gonna

03:48:35.850 --> 03:48:40.030
say thank you i really appreciate being here

03:48:40.030 --> 03:48:42.450
and just hanging out that was it was awesome

03:48:42.450 --> 03:48:43.950
it's good for the soul