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things for the first responder community. As

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a strength and conditioning coach myself who

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that we as a profession start tracking our people

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from day one and then over the full span of their

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features. And if you want to take a deeper dive

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Melissa Mercado or go to teambuildr .com. And

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I'll spell that to you because it's not as you

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think, T -E -A -M -B -U -I -L -D -R .com. Welcome

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to the Behind the Shield podcast. As always,

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my name is James Gearing, and this week I have

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an incredibly powerful and unique conversation

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for you. I am joined by CrossFit endurance guru

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Chris Hinshaw, Marine Lieutenant Colonel Nick

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Gregson, and strength and conditioning coach

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for the U .S. Marines Kelsey Mead. Now, in this

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conversation, we have three different perspectives

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when it comes to fitness and strength conditioning

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within our warfighters, the overall condition

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of the general population, recruitment, and then

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most importantly, raising the bar within the

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military. Now, Nick is one of the creators of

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the fittest instructor competition within the

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Marines, where they get their best strength coaches,

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bring them together, and then get them to compete

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against each other whilst continually being coached,

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with the ultimate end goal being open -minded

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to all elements of coaching and raising the bar

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within their own organization. Now, before we

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get to this incredibly powerful conversation,

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as I say every week, please just take a moment.

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Go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe

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to the show, leave feedback and leave a rating.

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Every single five -star rating truly does elevate

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this podcast, therefore making it easier for

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others to find. And this is a free library of

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well over a thousand episodes now. So all I ask

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in return is that you help share these incredible

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men and women's stories. so I can get them to

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every single person on planet Earth who needs

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to hear them. So with that being said, I introduce

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to you Chris Hinshaw, Nick Gregson, and Kelsey

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Mead. Enjoy. Well, Kelsey and Nick, I want to

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start by saying thank you so much for coming

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on the Behind the Shield podcast. We're going

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to be joined by Chris Hinshaw when he frees up.

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But right now, I just want to welcome the both

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of you onto the show today. Thank you for having

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me. Yeah, thanks very much. All right. So very

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first question, where on planet Earth are we

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finding you this afternoon? Quantico, Virginia.

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Marine Corps Base Quantico. Same. All right.

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I think the best way for us to do this is Chris

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has been on the show before, so people would

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have listened to that and know who he is if they've

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listened to the episode. Let's start with each

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of you. We'll get a little background, your journey

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into strength and conditioning, wearing uniform,

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and then we'll progress forward from there. So

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Kelsey, let's start with you. Talk to me about

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your journey into training the collegiate and

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sporting athlete, and then let's walk forward

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to how you found yourself on the military side.

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When I was in school doing my undergrad, I had

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declared athletic training as my major because

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I wanted to do something with sports, but I didn't

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know what I wanted to do. And I had no idea that

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strength and conditioning was a job that I could

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do. And I didn't know that until I took a couple

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elective classes that were literally strength

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and conditioning. My degree happened to require

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an internship, and I looked at a bunch of coaches

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that I did know, and I started working with Mike

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Boyle. I chose an internship with him at his

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facility up in Massachusetts. I'm from New England,

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so essentially I went back home for my internship.

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And that internship changed everything. I started

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to really realize that this was a full career.

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When I graduated, I went and worked at the University

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of New Hampshire as an intern as well. So I was

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working for free. I was working a bunch of other

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jobs to pay for rent and all the other things.

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And they kept me on for quite a while. I went

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to grad school and I was a graduate assistant

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strength coach at Boston University. And that

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decision was because if I was going to choose

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to be a collegiate strength coach, I was going

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to have to have a graduate assistantship. Like

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you really can't get a job as a college strength

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coach without going to grad school. So a friend

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of mine was already at the program at Boston

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University and he spoke so highly of it. So I

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said, I guess I'm going to Boston. And they took

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me on for two years as a GA. And after that,

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I was like, where do I go? Because the collegiate

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world is really small. It's really hard to get

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a job. And I'd always wanted to work with the

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military somehow. My dad was in the military.

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I've got family in the military. So I said, why

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don't I figure out if this is a thing? Turns

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out it is. And I've been doing tactical strength

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conditioning now for 10 years, almost. It took

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a long time to get from figuring out that it

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was a job to doing what I'm doing now. What was

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your educational experience like? The reason

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I asked, I did sports science in University of

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North London. I did my exercise physiology, finished

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up my bachelor's in University of Florida. And

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sadly, what I realized in a lot of. sports science

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experts kind of programs is it kind of grooms

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you to be in the lab. So really to then teach

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sports science in higher education versus giving

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you the tools to actually get on that code for,

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excuse me, that road for coaching. What was your

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specific path? And if you were a queen for a

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day, what would you change to prepare young men

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and women for the coaching environment? So I'm

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actually really lucky in that I didn't have science

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based. programs at all my undergrad um is in

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exercise support and health education um and

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it was very broad very very broad which the only

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reason it became heavy industry conditioning

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is because once i was you know a junior i could

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take all of the electives i wanted and i just

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made them all about coaching and all about performance

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training right so that really broad undergrad

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program i could have made it more kinesiology

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based if i'd wanted to but i didn't I wanted

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that coaching side of things. The science world

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is not where I live. I'm a very hands on. I'm

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a very in the moment, like with the team coach.

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And so my undergrad was not very science. heavy

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at all outside of like having to learn how to

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periodize and how to program and yes I had anatomy

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and physiology classes and I had multiple of

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them so I had to learn all this stuff but it

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wasn't heavy into the kinesiology or science

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aspect and then my grad program was actually

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phenomenal and that didn't have anything to do

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with science at all it was basically two years

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of coaching philosophy How do you coach? How

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do you get how do you build buy in? How do you

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build rapport? How do you get how do you get

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the athletes to to want to work for you? And

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how do you figure out who you are as a coach

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and how you want to relay all the information

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to your athletes? So it was it was literally

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a coaching grad program. So when you hear about

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other people's paths, what would be that ideal

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hybrid so that people can have a similar journey

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rather than end up kind of studying a more myopic

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element of sports science? I mean, if the science

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aspect is what you want, I think that there's

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plenty of obviously avenues for you. But I would

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really, really look into a program that has a

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lot of philosophy and coaching. heavy classes

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because that really changed i think my outlook

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on it and it really made me realize that this

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was this wasn't something that was out of my

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realm because i'm not that i'm not that lab kinesiology

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person and i knew i wasn't going to excel at

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that but i can excel at at coaching people and

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getting people to to want to do what i want them

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to do in a good way um so really looking for

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electives in your program in your undergrad and

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your graduate program if you're going that route

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like look for the electives that mean something

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to you and and don't just feel like you have

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to do the thing that everyone else is doing because

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at the end of the day the elective classes are

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the ones that matter the most I think in your

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program because you've chosen them and you can

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tailor whatever your time in school is to what

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you want it to be. Brilliant. Thank you. All

00:12:42.179 --> 00:12:43.700
right. Well, Nick, let's go to you. Let's start

00:12:43.700 --> 00:12:46.139
with your journey into the military first, and

00:12:46.139 --> 00:12:48.019
then we'll kind of circle back as far as your

00:12:48.019 --> 00:12:51.860
interest into strength and conditioning. Okay.

00:12:51.919 --> 00:12:56.840
Yeah, sure. So my journey in the military was

00:12:56.840 --> 00:13:00.360
probably a lot, very similar to just about everybody

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who's been in. very recently to 9 -11 with maybe

00:13:06.980 --> 00:13:09.039
just one small caveat. So I grew up in the Marine

00:13:09.039 --> 00:13:12.679
Corps. My dad was a career Marine. I very vividly

00:13:12.679 --> 00:13:15.740
remember the day when I realized that dad was

00:13:15.740 --> 00:13:19.919
a bad, bad man. And there was about six of us

00:13:19.919 --> 00:13:21.519
and we were playing like this at -home laser

00:13:21.519 --> 00:13:25.259
tag version. And we tried to team up against

00:13:25.259 --> 00:13:31.000
him. And not one of us even saw him or got a

00:13:31.000 --> 00:13:34.799
shot off. Dad dominated a whole bunch of neighborhood

00:13:34.799 --> 00:13:39.379
teenagers. And we all realized that, okay, dad's

00:13:39.379 --> 00:13:42.720
a bad man. So grew up in the Marine Corps, grew

00:13:42.720 --> 00:13:45.039
up around Quantico, multiple military bases.

00:13:45.879 --> 00:13:49.179
Went off to college as a freshman when the towers

00:13:49.179 --> 00:13:55.379
fell. And then once the towers fell, I realized

00:13:55.379 --> 00:14:01.190
that this giant sense of... a need to serve my

00:14:01.190 --> 00:14:03.509
country and to be a part of what was going to

00:14:03.509 --> 00:14:07.409
be the very quickly pending war. So much so that

00:14:07.409 --> 00:14:12.610
my dad fought me almost every month to stay in

00:14:12.610 --> 00:14:15.269
college and continue to remind me that, hey,

00:14:15.309 --> 00:14:17.190
this war isn't going anywhere. So if you're going

00:14:17.190 --> 00:14:20.980
to be a part of it, lead a part of it. and so

00:14:20.980 --> 00:14:25.100
went off to ocs got my commission in 2005 and

00:14:25.100 --> 00:14:28.259
really been been doing it ever since uh became

00:14:28.259 --> 00:14:32.940
an artilleryman um so kudos to my algebra teacher

00:14:32.940 --> 00:14:36.600
back in high school who said someday uh this

00:14:36.600 --> 00:14:38.940
advanced algebra will save your life she was

00:14:38.940 --> 00:14:42.139
absolutely right um i never thought for a period

00:14:42.139 --> 00:14:44.500
of my life i'd be doing advanced advanced algebra

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and calculus in a wartime environment so kudos

00:14:47.860 --> 00:14:53.419
to her She was right. I was wrong. And then celebrate

00:14:53.419 --> 00:14:59.919
20 years this summer. What about the the front

00:14:59.919 --> 00:15:01.360
door? Because obviously we're going to be talking

00:15:01.360 --> 00:15:04.100
about, you know, tactical athletes and how we're

00:15:04.100 --> 00:15:05.960
coaching them these days and using competition

00:15:05.960 --> 00:15:09.360
to enhance performance. What was the philosophy

00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:14.019
and the types of training that you kind of you

00:15:14.019 --> 00:15:15.940
were engrossed with when you first entered the

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Marines? Yeah, so that's really, really matured

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over 20 years. And so when I was in college,

00:15:25.360 --> 00:15:29.200
I played college lacrosse and, you know, we do

00:15:29.200 --> 00:15:31.279
very, very specific sort of weight room training

00:15:31.279 --> 00:15:34.799
stuff. And as I've gotten much, much older, much

00:15:34.799 --> 00:15:38.639
sort of smarter about it, everybody, even then,

00:15:38.740 --> 00:15:41.039
even in college athletics, at least my college,

00:15:41.179 --> 00:15:43.899
we were all training like bodybuilders. And so

00:15:43.899 --> 00:15:46.240
there wasn't an enormous amount of compound movements.

00:15:47.000 --> 00:15:49.620
The clean was about as advanced as you got. And

00:15:49.620 --> 00:15:51.919
even that is, you better have known how to do

00:15:51.919 --> 00:15:53.899
it first before the strength coach lets you do

00:15:53.899 --> 00:15:58.340
it. And there was no teaching, even in the college

00:15:58.340 --> 00:16:01.740
level. You got a sheet, it had your tempos, and

00:16:01.740 --> 00:16:05.980
you executed the sheet by day, by week. And there

00:16:05.980 --> 00:16:09.080
was no, this is why. Nobody ever explained, you

00:16:09.080 --> 00:16:11.679
know, intent to move. Nobody ever explained any

00:16:11.679 --> 00:16:13.419
kind of periodization. You just got your sheet

00:16:13.419 --> 00:16:14.860
and you executed it, and then you went out and

00:16:14.860 --> 00:16:18.879
you played lacrosse. um at least the makers when

00:16:18.879 --> 00:16:23.360
uh when i came in in 2005 uh it was still very

00:16:23.360 --> 00:16:28.200
much uh the 21 miles a week club the guidance

00:16:28.200 --> 00:16:30.200
and everything that was given to everybody is

00:16:30.200 --> 00:16:32.740
that there should be and you should go for around

00:16:32.740 --> 00:16:34.779
five to six times a week you should accumulate

00:16:34.779 --> 00:16:39.559
no more or no less than 21 miles a week uh one

00:16:39.559 --> 00:16:42.019
of those runs should be a very hard three mile

00:16:42.019 --> 00:16:45.000
run and that's it never never run less than three

00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:47.480
miles uh in a single sitting because that's what

00:16:47.480 --> 00:16:50.960
you have to do for the pft uh and then and then

00:16:50.960 --> 00:16:56.120
off you go uh it wasn't until much later on i

00:16:56.120 --> 00:17:00.480
think 2009 ish is when the the combat fitness

00:17:00.480 --> 00:17:03.360
test so i was already a captain uh came into

00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:05.700
the marine corps and we were and we even started

00:17:05.700 --> 00:17:07.839
talking about sprinting because the combat fitness

00:17:07.839 --> 00:17:10.880
test has the 800 meter but it was still a very

00:17:10.880 --> 00:17:16.700
run and pull up dominant physical fitness programming

00:17:16.700 --> 00:17:19.220
if your job required you to lift heavy things

00:17:19.220 --> 00:17:23.220
then you got that heavy lifting on the job nobody

00:17:23.220 --> 00:17:25.579
was talking about deadlifts nobody was talking

00:17:25.579 --> 00:17:28.079
about cleans nobody was talking about strength

00:17:28.079 --> 00:17:32.000
training marines at large um so much so the gym

00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:35.279
where kelsey works um if you walk in and you

00:17:35.279 --> 00:17:38.759
know nothing about uh you know gyms and weightlifting

00:17:38.759 --> 00:17:41.359
and things like that you you question why is

00:17:41.359 --> 00:17:44.819
the weight room on the second floor of the gym

00:17:44.819 --> 00:17:47.099
that doesn't seem all that structurally sound.

00:17:47.259 --> 00:17:50.700
I know very little about engineering, but the

00:17:50.700 --> 00:17:52.519
weight room on the second floor doesn't seem

00:17:52.519 --> 00:17:56.819
all that smart. And Kelsey's previous boss explained

00:17:56.819 --> 00:17:58.460
this to me one day that when they were building

00:17:58.460 --> 00:18:00.839
it, again, nobody was talking about deadlifts.

00:18:00.920 --> 00:18:02.900
When it was bought and purchased and planned

00:18:02.900 --> 00:18:06.160
in the 90s and the early 2000s, nobody was deadlifting.

00:18:06.339 --> 00:18:09.880
Nobody was doing cleans. Nobody was Olympic lifting.

00:18:09.980 --> 00:18:13.519
If you were, you were at a very odd gym. uh everybody

00:18:13.519 --> 00:18:16.259
was doing you know back and bys chest and tries

00:18:16.259 --> 00:18:19.019
everybody was on machines if you were strength

00:18:19.019 --> 00:18:21.980
training at all uh the word anaerobic didn't

00:18:21.980 --> 00:18:25.240
exist um maybe it did maybe just not in the circles

00:18:25.240 --> 00:18:29.319
i was in but it was everything was low intensity

00:18:29.319 --> 00:18:32.680
long distance running and and pull -ups and because

00:18:32.680 --> 00:18:34.900
of that and the generation of officers that were

00:18:34.900 --> 00:18:38.039
ahead of me that we all looked up to very much

00:18:38.039 --> 00:18:43.019
had a very similar build which is very lean very

00:18:43.019 --> 00:18:48.119
very endurance athlete uh very looking uh individual

00:18:48.119 --> 00:18:50.480
and not taking anything away from their physical

00:18:50.480 --> 00:18:52.880
fitness they're all incredibly fit but they had

00:18:52.880 --> 00:18:55.660
a very different physical fitness sort of framework

00:18:55.660 --> 00:18:59.859
based on the way that they came up as well for

00:18:59.859 --> 00:19:03.720
the most part obviously so who's on the ground

00:19:03.720 --> 00:19:05.460
floor because they must hate that for dropping

00:19:05.460 --> 00:19:10.710
bumper plates all day long There's office games

00:19:10.710 --> 00:19:14.250
and locker rooms and stuff downstairs. Okay.

00:19:14.369 --> 00:19:16.289
I mean, my office is right next to it, so it's

00:19:16.289 --> 00:19:20.750
really loud all the time. But it's a gym. It's

00:19:20.750 --> 00:19:23.609
supposed to be loud. It's fine. Exactly. All

00:19:23.609 --> 00:19:25.829
right. Well, let's go back to you. 10 feet from

00:19:25.829 --> 00:19:30.829
the squat rack. It's true. Well, Kelsey, going

00:19:30.829 --> 00:19:32.670
back to you, we'll bounce back and forth and

00:19:32.670 --> 00:19:34.309
hopefully Chris will jump on in a bit. Speaking

00:19:34.309 --> 00:19:39.339
of, you know, aerobic coaching. Yeah. Talk to

00:19:39.339 --> 00:19:42.420
me about the difference between all of these

00:19:42.420 --> 00:19:45.220
sporting athletes that you were coaching prior

00:19:45.220 --> 00:19:48.140
and what you saw in these tactical athletes.

00:19:48.259 --> 00:19:50.079
What were the initial kind of impressions that

00:19:50.079 --> 00:19:53.839
you got of the differences between the two? I

00:19:53.839 --> 00:20:00.019
think the main difference would be that the collegiate

00:20:00.019 --> 00:20:03.920
athletes have their thing, right? you're a track

00:20:03.920 --> 00:20:06.119
athlete, you're a sprinter, you're a soccer player,

00:20:06.319 --> 00:20:08.619
you're a football player, you're whatever, you

00:20:08.619 --> 00:20:13.779
are whatever sport, right? And the training that,

00:20:13.859 --> 00:20:15.839
or the programming that the coach is going to

00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:20.859
make is all across the board. It's all very similar.

00:20:21.119 --> 00:20:23.900
There's a lot less that's different between the

00:20:23.900 --> 00:20:26.079
sports than people assume. People assume that

00:20:26.079 --> 00:20:28.099
a tennis player and a football player are going

00:20:28.099 --> 00:20:31.460
to have vastly different training programs. But

00:20:31.460 --> 00:20:33.279
they're still going to squat. They're still going

00:20:33.279 --> 00:20:34.980
to do some form of a deadlift. They're still

00:20:34.980 --> 00:20:37.880
going to do some agility work and some plyometric

00:20:37.880 --> 00:20:40.019
explosive work. And, you know, they're still

00:20:40.019 --> 00:20:41.720
going to do all the same things. It's just how

00:20:41.720 --> 00:20:43.859
they're written that's going to be different.

00:20:43.980 --> 00:20:45.880
Obviously, a tennis player is not going to be

00:20:45.880 --> 00:20:48.680
as concerned about being able to squat a whole

00:20:48.680 --> 00:20:50.720
lot or bench press a whole lot. And that's more

00:20:50.720 --> 00:20:53.140
important for a football player, arguably. Right.

00:20:53.759 --> 00:20:56.799
And so when you take that in consideration and

00:20:56.799 --> 00:20:59.630
then you look at all these Marines. they don't

00:20:59.630 --> 00:21:03.470
have a sport per se. They have their PFT, they

00:21:03.470 --> 00:21:08.809
have their CFT, but like, do they have an in

00:21:08.809 --> 00:21:11.150
-season and an off -season, right? They don't

00:21:11.150 --> 00:21:14.450
really have that. So how can you take their kind

00:21:14.450 --> 00:21:17.170
of generalized bodybuilding? Like, like Nick

00:21:17.170 --> 00:21:19.150
was saying, like they're all bodybuilding. How

00:21:19.150 --> 00:21:21.490
do you take that and get them to realize that,

00:21:21.529 --> 00:21:23.349
oh, you can still do performance -based stuff,

00:21:23.410 --> 00:21:25.829
even if you're not a sport athlete, even if you

00:21:25.829 --> 00:21:30.200
don't have a sport right now. So it's definitely

00:21:30.200 --> 00:21:34.819
taking the bodybuilding side and the fact that

00:21:34.819 --> 00:21:37.700
I know that I can relate the performance side

00:21:37.700 --> 00:21:40.779
to what they do, but getting everybody on the

00:21:40.779 --> 00:21:43.220
same page as to how that works, I think, was

00:21:43.220 --> 00:21:46.940
the biggest thing. Well, Chris, you just joined

00:21:46.940 --> 00:21:49.500
us. We were just doing background of the other

00:21:49.500 --> 00:21:51.799
two guests. So we'll do a quick background of

00:21:51.799 --> 00:21:53.640
you, and then I want to bring you into your...

00:21:54.039 --> 00:21:56.519
exposure to the tactical athletes so before we

00:21:56.519 --> 00:21:59.099
do that just give everyone an overview of how

00:21:59.099 --> 00:22:02.220
you found yourself in the athletic space and

00:22:02.220 --> 00:22:04.500
then how you ended up transitioning to a high

00:22:04.500 --> 00:22:11.359
level coach wow i i'm definitely known as an

00:22:11.359 --> 00:22:15.180
endurance athlete i was a swimmer as an age grouper

00:22:15.180 --> 00:22:19.920
wasn't very good as a swimmer as my body matured

00:22:19.920 --> 00:22:24.880
i got into the sport of triathlons and was given

00:22:24.880 --> 00:22:29.799
some pretty good natural ability. My VO2 was

00:22:29.799 --> 00:22:33.900
in the mid 80s, milliliters per kilogram of body

00:22:33.900 --> 00:22:36.279
weight per minute, which was big. My lungs are

00:22:36.279 --> 00:22:41.359
50 % bigger than an average person. And 85 %

00:22:41.359 --> 00:22:43.420
of my muscle fiber is slow twitch. And so I was

00:22:43.420 --> 00:22:45.400
made for going fast for a long amount of time.

00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:49.049
And I'd much rather be. a weightlifter where

00:22:49.049 --> 00:22:52.269
I could be done in about 10 seconds versus, you

00:22:52.269 --> 00:22:57.269
know, nine hours. But so a beast. I rode that

00:22:57.269 --> 00:23:01.269
for a long time and loved coaching, but there's

00:23:01.269 --> 00:23:03.190
honestly, it just wasn't a lot of opportunity

00:23:03.190 --> 00:23:10.710
back then. And so I shelved it back around 2008.

00:23:10.710 --> 00:23:14.109
I got into the sport of CrossFit, was given an

00:23:14.109 --> 00:23:18.500
opportunity to. to help a elite CrossFit athlete,

00:23:18.779 --> 00:23:25.000
Jason Kalipa. And Jason, he's 5 '9", around 225

00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:27.839
pounds, and he would finish dead last in every

00:23:27.839 --> 00:23:32.140
endurance event at the CrossFit Games. And he

00:23:32.140 --> 00:23:34.720
said to me, he said that if he could fix that,

00:23:34.759 --> 00:23:39.200
his endurance, because he was really good at

00:23:39.200 --> 00:23:42.660
shorter time domains, strength -based workouts

00:23:42.660 --> 00:23:46.779
that he could turn around his career. And because

00:23:46.779 --> 00:23:49.839
of my knowledge of CrossFit at that time, I'd

00:23:49.839 --> 00:23:54.240
been in the sport for four years. But I thought

00:23:54.240 --> 00:23:57.240
that why not just take a pure CrossFit athlete?

00:23:57.339 --> 00:24:00.759
And what if you gave them pure aerobic work?

00:24:00.900 --> 00:24:04.259
What would happen? And it was a way for me to

00:24:04.259 --> 00:24:07.380
experiment on him to see if it would work. But

00:24:07.380 --> 00:24:09.259
mostly I was interested in just hanging out with

00:24:09.259 --> 00:24:12.279
the champion, a former champion. And he went

00:24:12.279 --> 00:24:17.000
on that year, got... three first place finishes

00:24:17.000 --> 00:24:19.279
in the endurance events and got a third and the

00:24:19.279 --> 00:24:22.240
fourth one and got second place overall and um

00:24:22.240 --> 00:24:25.960
that kind of gave me the bug of getting back

00:24:25.960 --> 00:24:28.720
into coaching and and since then i've i've worked

00:24:28.720 --> 00:24:34.720
with i i i want to say three dozen 38 people

00:24:34.720 --> 00:24:36.579
that have stood on the top spot of the podium

00:24:36.579 --> 00:24:41.759
at the crossfit games and um yeah that's that's

00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:47.619
how i i essentially that started. I interviewed

00:24:47.619 --> 00:24:50.599
Jason. I met him at the Sandlot Jacks games,

00:24:50.720 --> 00:24:53.099
the, uh, go rock games. And, uh, he's, I know

00:24:53.099 --> 00:24:55.019
he's big into jujitsu now. So it's interesting

00:24:55.019 --> 00:24:58.480
seeing that transition. Um, and that was, uh,

00:24:58.539 --> 00:25:00.140
he ended up rolling with Tim Kennedy speaking

00:25:00.140 --> 00:25:02.900
of the military. So I know that, that you've

00:25:02.900 --> 00:25:04.799
done some work with the FDNY. If we have time

00:25:04.799 --> 00:25:06.380
at the end, we'll definitely ask about that,

00:25:06.440 --> 00:25:08.680
but talk to me again, just like with Kelsey,

00:25:08.759 --> 00:25:11.079
you're working with all these sporting athletes.

00:25:11.240 --> 00:25:13.539
What was your transition into coaching tactical

00:25:13.539 --> 00:25:18.380
athletes? What was really interesting to me is

00:25:18.380 --> 00:25:24.400
as an elite level triathlete is I realized why

00:25:24.400 --> 00:25:29.680
the best get this. They get better. They're given

00:25:29.680 --> 00:25:33.579
things to them because of their greatness. And

00:25:33.579 --> 00:25:36.019
what I mean by that is, is that you're given

00:25:36.019 --> 00:25:38.039
access to the best products. You're given access

00:25:38.039 --> 00:25:44.460
to the best coaches. And I wasn't. as I got older,

00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:49.940
as interested in helping people that were born

00:25:49.940 --> 00:25:53.960
with a genetic predisposition to win a gold medal.

00:25:54.420 --> 00:25:57.619
What I became interested in was the everyday

00:25:57.619 --> 00:26:01.140
individual, the everyday fitness enthusiast,

00:26:01.160 --> 00:26:04.339
the non -specialist, the one that was interested

00:26:04.339 --> 00:26:07.279
in being strong, but also having that ability

00:26:07.279 --> 00:26:11.140
to endure. And that's what really struck me about

00:26:11.140 --> 00:26:15.369
CrossFit is it's... a sport for the athlete that

00:26:15.369 --> 00:26:19.410
sits in the middle. And these are also athletes

00:26:19.410 --> 00:26:26.450
that use that type of training, right? The training

00:26:26.450 --> 00:26:30.789
that you do to build strength, but also the ability

00:26:30.789 --> 00:26:34.289
to endure a hybrid athlete. And that's what we

00:26:34.289 --> 00:26:37.309
see in first responders. We see it in military.

00:26:37.890 --> 00:26:42.420
And that to me, I thought. What if you could

00:26:42.420 --> 00:26:46.779
give this population of person who essentially

00:26:46.779 --> 00:26:50.579
has been ignored in the past because of lack

00:26:50.579 --> 00:26:54.240
of genetics and create a level of greatness that's

00:26:54.240 --> 00:26:58.019
never been seen before? And that's what's happening

00:26:58.019 --> 00:27:01.839
is that it's being demonstrated over and over

00:27:01.839 --> 00:27:05.799
again that the person with a balanced mixture

00:27:05.799 --> 00:27:09.119
of fast twitch and slow twitch fibers are the

00:27:09.119 --> 00:27:11.440
healthiest of them all. They're the ones that

00:27:11.440 --> 00:27:16.319
are going to survive. And that's the appeal.

00:27:17.539 --> 00:27:20.140
It's interesting. We were talking a few weeks

00:27:20.140 --> 00:27:23.180
ago when I hear conversations and we're going

00:27:23.180 --> 00:27:25.819
to get into the Marines now about, you know,

00:27:25.819 --> 00:27:28.000
especially the special forces groups within the

00:27:28.000 --> 00:27:31.039
military. We hear about, you know, the Thor 3

00:27:31.039 --> 00:27:33.960
program and all these, you know, elite coaches

00:27:33.960 --> 00:27:37.000
that are working with these teams and they're

00:27:37.000 --> 00:27:39.849
forging. performance they're forging resilience

00:27:39.849 --> 00:27:43.109
against injury they're forging longevity and

00:27:43.109 --> 00:27:46.009
yet when you look at my profession the strength

00:27:46.009 --> 00:27:47.910
and conditioning coaches and the nutritionists

00:27:47.910 --> 00:27:50.130
are coming in to say well you're dying a lot

00:27:50.130 --> 00:27:52.569
see if we can get you dying less and there's

00:27:52.569 --> 00:27:55.529
such a massive gap between forging performance

00:27:55.529 --> 00:27:58.730
in the elite side the military and our first

00:27:58.730 --> 00:28:00.170
responders and i think this is what's going to

00:28:00.170 --> 00:28:02.670
be interesting for a lot of the responder community

00:28:02.670 --> 00:28:05.490
listening to this is where the focus should be

00:28:05.490 --> 00:28:07.569
when we get the work week and the rest and recovery

00:28:07.569 --> 00:28:10.029
and the staffing back to where it needs to be

00:28:10.029 --> 00:28:12.809
in the first place now we as a profession law

00:28:12.809 --> 00:28:14.930
enforcement fire can start talking about the

00:28:14.930 --> 00:28:17.390
same level of performance because if you look

00:28:17.390 --> 00:28:19.329
at what we're asked to do at the drop of a hat

00:28:19.329 --> 00:28:22.950
it equals you know special forces special operations

00:28:22.950 --> 00:28:28.150
yeah that is an interesting uh i i find it surprising

00:28:28.150 --> 00:28:31.250
too because i'll walk in and like you said i

00:28:31.250 --> 00:28:33.869
do work with the fdny and i do you know a lot

00:28:33.869 --> 00:28:37.769
of different seminars within fire and it's met

00:28:37.769 --> 00:28:42.430
with a lot of sarcasm and resistance and i find

00:28:42.430 --> 00:28:46.809
it like like here's a good example like we there's

00:28:46.809 --> 00:28:49.089
been all kinds of studies that have said that

00:28:49.089 --> 00:28:52.900
in fire In order to perform the tasks of a live

00:28:52.900 --> 00:28:55.720
fire, you have to have, they monitor it based

00:28:55.720 --> 00:28:59.220
upon METs, a metabolic equivalent, how much oxygen

00:28:59.220 --> 00:29:02.420
is required to do a task, similar to a VO2 max.

00:29:02.920 --> 00:29:05.720
And they've determined that 12 METs, roughly

00:29:05.720 --> 00:29:10.039
42 milliliters of oxygen per minute in terms

00:29:10.039 --> 00:29:12.980
of VO2, you could safely perform all these jobs.

00:29:13.599 --> 00:29:18.799
Well, when I speak, I'm like. I'm going to show

00:29:18.799 --> 00:29:21.920
you the cheat code in order to be able to hit

00:29:21.920 --> 00:29:25.519
that aerobic capacity development. And people

00:29:25.519 --> 00:29:27.680
are like, what, what did you agree with that?

00:29:27.799 --> 00:29:30.660
I said, do you realize that when you guys put

00:29:30.660 --> 00:29:34.839
on 60 pounds of turnout gear, what happens to

00:29:34.839 --> 00:29:38.680
your 42 milliliters? I mean, in terms of population,

00:29:38.720 --> 00:29:44.579
you go from 50%, meaning 42 is the middle population.

00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:48.880
You're not even considered above average. And

00:29:48.880 --> 00:29:50.980
now you're going to put 60 pounds of gear on

00:29:50.980 --> 00:29:54.039
and you got to go fight a live fire. And do you

00:29:54.039 --> 00:29:56.519
realize that that puts you in the bottom 20 %

00:29:56.519 --> 00:29:59.940
of aerobic capacity? And you're trying to find

00:29:59.940 --> 00:30:04.119
some wiggle room in this number to perform your

00:30:04.119 --> 00:30:06.779
job safely. Would you take someone off of the

00:30:06.779 --> 00:30:09.220
street that's in the bottom 20 % in terms of

00:30:09.220 --> 00:30:12.599
aerobic health and say, go fight the fire. You

00:30:12.599 --> 00:30:14.619
don't have to have turnout gear, but go fight

00:30:14.619 --> 00:30:16.599
the fire. And that's what you guys do every day.

00:30:16.799 --> 00:30:20.259
And you're negotiating with it. So, yeah, I think

00:30:20.259 --> 00:30:25.059
it's very upside down. And that I find where,

00:30:25.079 --> 00:30:28.480
you know, knowing Nick and Kelsey, like in the

00:30:28.480 --> 00:30:35.359
Marine Corps, there is a reputation. It permeates

00:30:35.359 --> 00:30:39.819
throughout everybody the importance of being

00:30:39.819 --> 00:30:44.559
the fittest outfit in the world. And that's what's

00:30:44.559 --> 00:30:48.619
nice. I think the problem that I've seen in my

00:30:48.619 --> 00:30:51.960
community is we haven't evolved. So now you've

00:30:51.960 --> 00:30:54.000
got this recruitment crisis. You've got these

00:30:54.000 --> 00:30:56.400
insane work weeks that make no sense whatsoever.

00:30:56.720 --> 00:30:58.920
Now you add overtime because we have a recruitment

00:30:58.920 --> 00:31:01.319
crisis and you've got first responders, you know,

00:31:01.319 --> 00:31:03.700
firefighters, especially working 80, eight zero

00:31:03.700 --> 00:31:06.279
hour weeks. And then we're trying to hold them

00:31:06.279 --> 00:31:08.519
to a fitness standard as you and I spoke before,

00:31:08.599 --> 00:31:10.920
Chris, without sleep, you know, the rest and

00:31:10.920 --> 00:31:13.819
recovery that's needed. your hypertrophy, your

00:31:13.819 --> 00:31:15.539
strength training, all these other things, they're

00:31:15.539 --> 00:31:18.299
not bearing fruits because you don't get that

00:31:18.299 --> 00:31:19.880
recovery. And then we get hurt because we're

00:31:19.880 --> 00:31:22.420
breaking down connective tissue and then wondering

00:31:22.420 --> 00:31:27.019
why meniscus and backs are ripping. With that

00:31:27.019 --> 00:31:29.779
being said, with the recruitment crisis, going

00:31:29.779 --> 00:31:32.400
back to you, Nick, you've got a 20 -year span.

00:31:32.980 --> 00:31:35.539
20 years ago, it was extremely competitive to

00:31:35.539 --> 00:31:38.140
be a firefighter. Again, it was post 9 -11. I

00:31:38.140 --> 00:31:40.500
was testing against thousands of people for a

00:31:40.500 --> 00:31:44.710
job, one of 30. And I've seen this kind of devolution

00:31:44.710 --> 00:31:47.490
now. I had Dan Bornstein on talking about, you

00:31:47.490 --> 00:31:50.230
know, the national kind of wellness crisis and

00:31:50.230 --> 00:31:52.509
how that's affecting recruitment for all these.

00:31:52.670 --> 00:31:55.589
But with that all being said, what what have

00:31:55.589 --> 00:31:58.690
you seen over the last 20 years? And, you know,

00:31:58.690 --> 00:32:01.250
how are you using this competition and kind of

00:32:01.250 --> 00:32:04.089
reframing some of this to to reverse that swing?

00:32:06.310 --> 00:32:09.910
So the Marine Corps is pretty blessed. We're

00:32:09.910 --> 00:32:14.130
the one service in the United States military

00:32:14.130 --> 00:32:18.630
that we always meet our recruiting mission. And

00:32:18.630 --> 00:32:21.549
I think that goes to a lot of the culture that

00:32:21.549 --> 00:32:23.710
Chris was talking about. And we hold ourselves

00:32:23.710 --> 00:32:29.390
to an incredibly high standard. And part of that

00:32:29.390 --> 00:32:33.509
is, I think, necessary hubris. Part of that is

00:32:33.509 --> 00:32:36.799
also we're... we're incredibly small so we can

00:32:36.799 --> 00:32:41.660
um you know the united states army is america's

00:32:41.660 --> 00:32:44.000
army so they have to fill their forces with a

00:32:44.000 --> 00:32:46.599
lot more and the more demand obviously so marine

00:32:46.599 --> 00:32:49.460
corps can be a bit pickier um and as such our

00:32:49.460 --> 00:32:52.099
recruitment standards are much higher than the

00:32:52.099 --> 00:32:55.220
rest but um one of the biggest things that we

00:32:55.220 --> 00:32:58.680
really really wanted to to focus on uh as part

00:32:58.680 --> 00:33:01.759
of this competition is uh in guidance with the

00:33:01.759 --> 00:33:04.299
comment on the marine corps guidance to with

00:33:04.299 --> 00:33:07.420
competition. And as the Marine Corps shifts away

00:33:07.420 --> 00:33:12.019
from my career's war in the counterinsurgency

00:33:12.019 --> 00:33:16.539
operations to this peer fight that we're preparing

00:33:16.539 --> 00:33:21.369
for next. so we've done a lot of things that

00:33:21.369 --> 00:33:24.529
that add competition into marines lives one of

00:33:24.529 --> 00:33:27.549
the biggest and largest scale one uh is undoubtedly

00:33:27.549 --> 00:33:31.849
uh magtap warrior exercise out in 29 palms where

00:33:31.849 --> 00:33:34.470
we are literally taking units of marines in in

00:33:34.470 --> 00:33:36.829
what can only be described as the world's you

00:33:36.829 --> 00:33:39.410
know most elaborate game of laser tag where we

00:33:39.410 --> 00:33:41.789
have live units going up against other live units

00:33:42.480 --> 00:33:46.180
in a completely unscripted environment. And every

00:33:46.180 --> 00:33:48.240
time that you do it, they're always very, very

00:33:48.240 --> 00:33:51.180
clear that it's the unit with the most notes

00:33:51.180 --> 00:33:54.119
about how things worked and how things didn't

00:33:54.119 --> 00:33:56.599
work that wins. We're not worried about winning

00:33:56.599 --> 00:33:58.839
or losing. We're worried about learning. And

00:33:58.839 --> 00:34:03.299
so my job in training command right now is the

00:34:03.299 --> 00:34:05.079
faculty development and learning development

00:34:05.079 --> 00:34:11.130
officer. And so that... The competition predates

00:34:11.130 --> 00:34:13.710
that. But when we put this together, one of the

00:34:13.710 --> 00:34:15.789
guiding questions was, how do we prepare all

00:34:15.789 --> 00:34:17.849
of our instructors to teach everything that they'll

00:34:17.849 --> 00:34:20.369
be required to teach? And that includes physical

00:34:20.369 --> 00:34:25.090
fitness. How do we recruit really high quality

00:34:25.090 --> 00:34:26.909
Marines to come to training command? Instructor

00:34:26.909 --> 00:34:30.030
duty is not easy. It's incredibly long hours.

00:34:30.130 --> 00:34:34.449
It's incredibly difficult. we all know the high

00:34:34.449 --> 00:34:36.489
school teacher that we know and love and we're

00:34:36.489 --> 00:34:39.110
very much teaching those same kids but we're

00:34:39.110 --> 00:34:40.750
very much teaching those same kids how to use

00:34:40.750 --> 00:34:44.630
explosives um so it is very very demanding um

00:34:44.630 --> 00:34:49.769
and it's very very long hours and so my brain

00:34:49.769 --> 00:34:52.550
put together this idea of why don't we bring

00:34:52.550 --> 00:34:55.530
everybody in for a week let's bring one competitor

00:34:55.530 --> 00:34:59.539
per school We have 17 major sport and elements

00:34:59.539 --> 00:35:03.420
of 17 major schools. And each one of those, we

00:35:03.420 --> 00:35:05.699
have up to about 33 different locations around

00:35:05.699 --> 00:35:08.800
the U .S. Why don't we bring in one? So 17 total

00:35:08.800 --> 00:35:12.199
competitors. Let's put them around some of the

00:35:12.199 --> 00:35:15.800
most inspiring coaches that we can find. Let's

00:35:15.800 --> 00:35:18.619
teach them everything we can think of in a week's

00:35:18.619 --> 00:35:21.349
time. We're not going to make them experts. but

00:35:21.349 --> 00:35:23.230
let's give them let's give them the baseline

00:35:23.230 --> 00:35:25.449
understanding of how to do these these foundational

00:35:25.449 --> 00:35:28.429
movements um so that way when they do go back

00:35:28.429 --> 00:35:29.949
and they're doing air squats they know what they're

00:35:29.949 --> 00:35:32.909
doing it's just a small example uh and then let's

00:35:32.909 --> 00:35:34.449
put them in competition with each other and the

00:35:34.449 --> 00:35:38.030
competition has become um one of the most one

00:35:38.030 --> 00:35:42.170
of the shiny objects of it um in that the marine

00:35:42.170 --> 00:35:45.289
corps is very quickly running out of combat veterans

00:35:45.289 --> 00:35:47.769
those of us who grew up in my generation where

00:35:47.769 --> 00:35:51.750
there's less and less of us every day and those

00:35:51.750 --> 00:35:53.469
of us who've been on the battlefield and understand

00:35:53.469 --> 00:35:56.030
sort of the performance demands of it uh and

00:35:56.030 --> 00:35:58.070
that's just in the type of war we were fighting

00:35:58.070 --> 00:36:01.710
um you know throughout this past 20 years so

00:36:01.710 --> 00:36:03.849
how do we teach marines at the very basis level

00:36:03.849 --> 00:36:07.030
what it is to compete and so we're no longer

00:36:07.030 --> 00:36:10.630
talking about performance minimums we're talking

00:36:10.630 --> 00:36:15.610
about taking 17 type a competitors male and female

00:36:15.610 --> 00:36:17.769
and we're putting them in an environment where

00:36:17.769 --> 00:36:22.460
their best may not be good enough. They may run

00:36:22.460 --> 00:36:26.480
a perfect PFT and CFT score. They may be the

00:36:26.480 --> 00:36:29.840
best gym rat at their command. They may be enormously

00:36:29.840 --> 00:36:34.179
in shape. But when you put them in a field against

00:36:34.179 --> 00:36:37.260
17 other human beings that are very much the

00:36:37.260 --> 00:36:40.880
same type of thing, what is good enough? And

00:36:40.880 --> 00:36:44.780
so we truly believe that if we can learn... to

00:36:44.780 --> 00:36:47.679
compete on the PT field today, then we'll know

00:36:47.679 --> 00:36:49.679
what it is to dominate on the battlefield of

00:36:49.679 --> 00:36:52.000
tomorrow. Because none of these athletes, when

00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:54.159
they come into this competition, none of them

00:36:54.159 --> 00:36:55.739
know all the events that they're going to have

00:36:55.739 --> 00:36:58.500
to do. None of them know the time and intensity

00:36:58.500 --> 00:37:00.699
that they'll have to do all of the events. And

00:37:00.699 --> 00:37:03.659
none of them know what good enough is. Because

00:37:03.659 --> 00:37:07.000
it's no longer about performance against a given

00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:08.679
standard. It's competing against each other.

00:37:08.800 --> 00:37:10.900
And we really, really do believe that that translates

00:37:10.900 --> 00:37:15.090
at the basis level to the battlefield. When we're

00:37:15.090 --> 00:37:16.949
on that battlefield with a peer competitor, whoever

00:37:16.949 --> 00:37:22.110
that may be, whenever that may be, we don't know

00:37:22.110 --> 00:37:24.750
what good enough really is. We think we do. We

00:37:24.750 --> 00:37:28.849
train to. But good enough isn't in the United

00:37:28.849 --> 00:37:31.530
States Marine Corps. So, you know, we train to

00:37:31.530 --> 00:37:34.670
go faster. We train to go harder. We like to

00:37:34.670 --> 00:37:36.949
find those sustainable maximum performances.

00:37:38.429 --> 00:37:40.690
I've been an artilleryman for a very long time.

00:37:41.980 --> 00:37:44.059
You know, the question always is, okay, if it

00:37:44.059 --> 00:37:46.480
takes seven minutes, you know, by the book to

00:37:46.480 --> 00:37:48.679
displace the howitzer and that's good enough

00:37:48.679 --> 00:37:51.980
time, how long can we hit that seven minute mark?

00:37:52.159 --> 00:37:54.159
And is seven minutes actually fast enough? How

00:37:54.159 --> 00:37:56.360
do we make it faster? What is the situation where

00:37:56.360 --> 00:37:58.920
we have to displace the howitzer in five minutes?

00:37:59.119 --> 00:38:00.739
What is the situation where we have to displace

00:38:00.739 --> 00:38:04.159
it in three? How do we do that safely? How do

00:38:04.159 --> 00:38:06.159
we do that without causing injury to our human

00:38:06.159 --> 00:38:08.679
beings or injury to the equipment? How do we

00:38:08.679 --> 00:38:12.460
keep the gun in the fight? Until you start training

00:38:12.460 --> 00:38:15.219
those types of movements, until you start training

00:38:15.219 --> 00:38:17.519
and you eliminate sort of the minimum standard

00:38:17.519 --> 00:38:20.039
and start worrying about a sustainable maximum,

00:38:20.400 --> 00:38:24.960
you can't really figure that out. And so that's

00:38:24.960 --> 00:38:26.900
what we at the basis level of this competition

00:38:26.900 --> 00:38:28.940
are really trying to do with the competition

00:38:28.940 --> 00:38:30.920
is teach Marines what it is to operate inside

00:38:30.920 --> 00:38:34.960
of that really competitive environment. We were

00:38:34.960 --> 00:38:38.380
talking when we spoke a few weeks ago and someone

00:38:38.380 --> 00:38:40.360
on my show had mentioned something which was

00:38:40.360 --> 00:38:43.679
so pertinent. The certification that you get

00:38:43.679 --> 00:38:46.199
as a firefighter in Florida is actually labeled

00:38:46.199 --> 00:38:48.199
minimum standards. That's what the certification

00:38:48.199 --> 00:38:50.840
is called. So that's as shitty as you should

00:38:50.840 --> 00:38:54.300
ever be your entire career. And what he said,

00:38:54.360 --> 00:38:56.179
he pointed out is like the problem is that minimum

00:38:56.179 --> 00:38:58.239
standards, whether it's the PFT, whether it's,

00:38:58.239 --> 00:39:00.780
you know, my certification. for a lot of people

00:39:00.780 --> 00:39:03.320
becomes maximum standards. And you hear about,

00:39:03.340 --> 00:39:05.760
you know, an annual test and four weeks before

00:39:05.760 --> 00:39:08.360
everyone's scrambling and training for it. So

00:39:08.360 --> 00:39:11.800
by reframing that philosophy, as you talked about,

00:39:11.860 --> 00:39:13.679
you know, and putting that bar high and getting

00:39:13.679 --> 00:39:16.360
people to chase that bar, that minimum standards

00:39:16.360 --> 00:39:18.900
actually becomes a true minimum standard. Well,

00:39:18.940 --> 00:39:21.139
of course I can pass a PFT, but this is where

00:39:21.139 --> 00:39:26.019
I'm actually heading to. That's yeah. That's

00:39:26.019 --> 00:39:29.420
really interesting. Cause it, I was. once at

00:39:29.420 --> 00:39:33.719
Camp Pendleton and spoke with the commanding

00:39:33.719 --> 00:39:36.840
general there, General Turner, and I asked him

00:39:36.840 --> 00:39:39.619
about the PFT and the times, you know, because

00:39:39.619 --> 00:39:44.440
a lot of times you run into a senior officer

00:39:44.440 --> 00:39:48.719
or someone high up in command and they're the

00:39:48.719 --> 00:39:52.639
reason for the problem, meaning the expectation

00:39:52.639 --> 00:39:54.900
or the way in which things were done, right?

00:39:55.019 --> 00:39:56.980
A lot of tradition. This is the way we've done

00:39:56.980 --> 00:40:00.949
it since the 60s. And I wanted to know, like,

00:40:01.010 --> 00:40:04.809
how reasonable is this man? And I asked him,

00:40:04.809 --> 00:40:08.969
I said, so in your PFT three mile, for every

00:40:08.969 --> 00:40:12.690
Marine, what would be the wish in terms of finishing

00:40:12.690 --> 00:40:14.670
times? And he says, you have to understand one

00:40:14.670 --> 00:40:17.329
thing that, you know, when you are in combat,

00:40:17.389 --> 00:40:19.710
you make life and death decisions. And it's important

00:40:19.710 --> 00:40:23.449
for you to recognize that if you make that decision

00:40:23.449 --> 00:40:26.409
with less fatigue, meaning you're more recovered.

00:40:27.070 --> 00:40:30.289
because of your aerobic fitness, that that matters.

00:40:31.130 --> 00:40:35.269
But he right away says 24 minutes, which is amazing

00:40:35.269 --> 00:40:39.269
to me. That is a very reasonable ask. And the

00:40:39.269 --> 00:40:42.889
fact that he knows what that number is tells

00:40:42.889 --> 00:40:45.550
me that there's some maneuvering room, right?

00:40:45.630 --> 00:40:47.670
Because I don't care who you are. And in four

00:40:47.670 --> 00:40:52.650
years, anybody can go under 24 minutes. And that's

00:40:52.650 --> 00:40:54.650
what I liked. I liked that there was a benchmark

00:40:54.650 --> 00:40:57.170
that was reasonable. I liked that it was achievable

00:40:57.170 --> 00:41:01.889
and it was at the highest level. And that's not

00:41:01.889 --> 00:41:05.150
getting you 100 points, but it's showing that

00:41:05.150 --> 00:41:10.469
this is why and this is what the number is. Absolutely.

00:41:10.550 --> 00:41:12.489
Well, Kelsey, I want to bring you in. We were

00:41:12.489 --> 00:41:14.489
talking about the journey, you know, when it

00:41:14.489 --> 00:41:16.670
came to strength and conditioning and the creation

00:41:16.670 --> 00:41:19.909
of coaches. Nick's touched on the fact that you're

00:41:19.909 --> 00:41:22.130
setting the bar high even for the coaches and

00:41:22.130 --> 00:41:23.929
kind of putting them in the shark tank with other

00:41:23.929 --> 00:41:29.070
coaches. What has been your impression of the

00:41:29.070 --> 00:41:31.730
things that are done well in the coaching space

00:41:31.730 --> 00:41:33.570
that you've seen strength and conditioning within

00:41:33.570 --> 00:41:36.590
the Marines? And then what areas are you hoping

00:41:36.590 --> 00:41:40.849
to surpass using competitions like this? So I

00:41:40.849 --> 00:41:43.949
think the biggest thing that I've really enjoyed

00:41:43.949 --> 00:41:46.510
watching over the last five years, because I

00:41:46.510 --> 00:41:49.019
was, I, Started with the Marine Corps and then

00:41:49.019 --> 00:41:50.679
I worked for the Navy for a handful of years

00:41:50.679 --> 00:41:52.079
and then I went back to the Marine Corps and

00:41:52.079 --> 00:41:55.320
I've been at Quantico for five years now. And

00:41:55.320 --> 00:42:00.860
what I have loved to see is that they have adopted

00:42:00.860 --> 00:42:05.619
the mindset of that collegiate model. So it's

00:42:05.619 --> 00:42:08.099
not just, oh, we want them to be good at the

00:42:08.099 --> 00:42:12.119
PFT and CFT. Oh, we want you as a coach to run

00:42:12.119 --> 00:42:15.840
a bunch of unit PTs, just random sessions. Because

00:42:15.840 --> 00:42:19.780
that is originally what people in my position

00:42:19.780 --> 00:42:24.380
within the HIT program were doing. A unit would

00:42:24.380 --> 00:42:27.800
request a PT. They're like, all right, just crush

00:42:27.800 --> 00:42:31.659
us for an hour. Okay, like I can do that. And

00:42:31.659 --> 00:42:34.119
then you wouldn't see them again, right? And

00:42:34.119 --> 00:42:35.900
because they're doing their own, they're going

00:42:35.900 --> 00:42:39.820
off and doing their own training, whatever their

00:42:39.820 --> 00:42:44.039
own training looks like, right? But that's not...

00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:48.500
sustainable. That doesn't build buy -in or any

00:42:48.500 --> 00:42:52.400
sort of ability to periodize and program out

00:42:52.400 --> 00:42:55.980
any sort of strength training, right? They're

00:42:55.980 --> 00:43:00.380
just random sessions. And so the Marine Corps

00:43:00.380 --> 00:43:02.760
adopting the model of, hey, we want to bring

00:43:02.760 --> 00:43:06.949
in athletic trainers. We want to bring in nutritionists

00:43:06.949 --> 00:43:09.849
and dietitians. And we want to have the coaches

00:43:09.849 --> 00:43:12.269
working with all these people. And that is exactly,

00:43:12.289 --> 00:43:14.750
that is what I did. And that's what happens in

00:43:14.750 --> 00:43:17.630
a collegiate setting. I am support no matter

00:43:17.630 --> 00:43:19.750
where I go. I am, I am just this, I'm part of

00:43:19.750 --> 00:43:22.590
the support staff because in the collegiate setting,

00:43:22.710 --> 00:43:25.550
I am, I'm not their sport coach. I'm not the

00:43:25.550 --> 00:43:27.730
expert in football. I'm not the one that's like

00:43:27.730 --> 00:43:30.110
helping them row on the water and be efficient

00:43:30.110 --> 00:43:33.030
on the water as a, as a, as a seven man boat.

00:43:33.150 --> 00:43:36.559
Like that's not my job. But I need to understand

00:43:36.559 --> 00:43:38.380
their sport and I need to understand what they

00:43:38.380 --> 00:43:41.079
do. And the coaches and the athletic trainers

00:43:41.079 --> 00:43:44.079
and the dietitians and then myself, we are all

00:43:44.079 --> 00:43:48.760
able to provide the best training possible when

00:43:48.760 --> 00:43:51.380
we work together. So the Marine Corps has adopted

00:43:51.380 --> 00:43:53.679
that and they've really, really been trying to

00:43:53.679 --> 00:43:56.619
push for that. So they don't want, as you know,

00:43:56.639 --> 00:43:59.880
the one -off PTs. They want units to come in

00:43:59.880 --> 00:44:03.179
and want a coach to work with them long -term

00:44:03.179 --> 00:44:06.269
indefinitely, right? So that's been really amazing

00:44:06.269 --> 00:44:10.510
to see because it's what I'm passionate about.

00:44:10.710 --> 00:44:15.309
And it gives me the ability to have connections

00:44:15.309 --> 00:44:18.030
and build relationships and really know the people

00:44:18.030 --> 00:44:20.110
that I'm coaching versus just like, here, go

00:44:20.110 --> 00:44:23.429
do this random workout. Right. So I love that

00:44:23.429 --> 00:44:27.130
that's where the Marine Corps is going. Nick,

00:44:27.190 --> 00:44:31.030
you mentioned within this competition, the ability

00:44:31.030 --> 00:44:34.500
for. these coaches to coach as they progress

00:44:34.500 --> 00:44:37.300
through. So you're, you're teaching these coaches,

00:44:37.360 --> 00:44:40.679
you know, the, the philosophy as, as Kelsey was

00:44:40.679 --> 00:44:43.340
touching on earlier of coaching. And when we

00:44:43.340 --> 00:44:45.179
get Chris back, we'll talk to him about even

00:44:45.179 --> 00:44:46.739
when they're running, they can be able to give

00:44:46.739 --> 00:44:48.579
them gate coaches and that kind of thing. So

00:44:48.579 --> 00:44:50.900
expand on that a little bit. It's not just a

00:44:50.900 --> 00:44:53.699
competition. What other attributes are going

00:44:53.699 --> 00:44:58.099
to be gained throughout this week? Yeah, absolutely.

00:44:58.380 --> 00:45:04.000
What did first and foremost, just, We bring together

00:45:04.000 --> 00:45:10.320
one of the more expansive coaching networks that

00:45:10.320 --> 00:45:13.380
we can within the Marine Corps, and that starts

00:45:13.380 --> 00:45:16.739
with Kelsey here at Quantico. It expands down

00:45:16.739 --> 00:45:19.860
to Amanda and Darren Peterson down at SY East.

00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:24.340
We have several other individuals from headquarters

00:45:24.340 --> 00:45:27.920
Semper Fit all around the East Coast. And we

00:45:27.920 --> 00:45:30.280
really, really do bring in this incredible group

00:45:30.280 --> 00:45:32.480
of coaches. Chris Henshaw is absolutely also

00:45:32.480 --> 00:45:37.210
one of them. And the point there is. these are

00:45:37.210 --> 00:45:39.809
all very very inspiring people and who are very

00:45:39.809 --> 00:45:42.329
passionate about their job and there's no better

00:45:42.329 --> 00:45:44.690
way than to inspire a group of people who are

00:45:44.690 --> 00:45:46.570
already into fitness than to put them around

00:45:46.570 --> 00:45:48.909
a bunch of other people who are truly passionate

00:45:48.909 --> 00:45:51.090
about it who can make those tiny tweaks and so

00:45:51.090 --> 00:45:53.429
we wanted to carry that through the competition

00:45:53.429 --> 00:45:57.889
so um kelsey is you know one of the most overqualified

00:45:57.889 --> 00:46:01.869
uh crossfit judges you'll ever find um in terms

00:46:01.869 --> 00:46:04.389
of this competition and and her and the rest

00:46:04.389 --> 00:46:06.909
of the entire coaching staff overly qualified

00:46:06.909 --> 00:46:10.909
it's not just judging squat depth it's each one

00:46:10.909 --> 00:46:13.090
of our coaches are are allowed and encouraged

00:46:13.090 --> 00:46:16.269
to coach the athlete through the workout so if

00:46:16.269 --> 00:46:18.650
an athlete is starting the red line and you know

00:46:18.650 --> 00:46:20.389
the coach can see that they're blowing up like

00:46:20.389 --> 00:46:22.730
we absolutely encourage the coaches to to kind

00:46:22.730 --> 00:46:25.289
of talk them through and to remind them how to

00:46:25.289 --> 00:46:28.429
breathe and how to how to follow this and um

00:46:28.429 --> 00:46:34.079
it's more than just evaluating a competition

00:46:34.079 --> 00:46:36.960
of athletes. These competitions, the competitive

00:46:36.960 --> 00:46:39.519
parts of the program are really written with

00:46:39.519 --> 00:46:42.579
an academic program of instruction mindset where

00:46:42.579 --> 00:46:47.280
what we're teaching is paramount. The events

00:46:47.280 --> 00:46:50.639
themselves are designed to reinforce what we're

00:46:50.639 --> 00:46:53.980
teaching. And then so when the judges and coaches

00:46:53.980 --> 00:46:55.900
are out there evaluating performance and just

00:46:55.900 --> 00:46:58.440
keeping score for me, because it is a competition.

00:46:58.840 --> 00:47:01.920
we do crown the title of fittest Marine instructor

00:47:01.920 --> 00:47:07.559
across the board, but we want them to, to take

00:47:07.559 --> 00:47:10.559
something more away from the competition other

00:47:10.559 --> 00:47:13.760
than, all right, I redlined and I failed. I don't

00:47:13.760 --> 00:47:16.440
know what that is. And so the coaches and the

00:47:16.440 --> 00:47:20.539
judges are a, the same person and be like absolutely

00:47:20.539 --> 00:47:23.079
encouraged to, to talk the athlete through the

00:47:23.079 --> 00:47:25.360
workout. Hey, slow down. You're starting to redline,

00:47:25.420 --> 00:47:28.940
you know, Hey. all right breathe breathe through

00:47:28.940 --> 00:47:33.179
it you know um chris loves to uh find the athlete

00:47:33.179 --> 00:47:36.059
who's truly struggling on some kind of aerobic

00:47:36.059 --> 00:47:38.480
workout that we're doing and then just run alongside

00:47:38.480 --> 00:47:40.420
him and just match up his breath with him and

00:47:40.420 --> 00:47:41.739
then tell him like all right you're at a two

00:47:41.739 --> 00:47:45.280
count breath um and it's it's great for them

00:47:45.280 --> 00:47:48.659
um but you know the responses are always the

00:47:48.659 --> 00:47:51.260
guy's already had a two count breath you know

00:47:51.610 --> 00:47:53.750
Chances are their willingness to listen to criticism

00:47:53.750 --> 00:47:56.630
at that point in time will go a very long way

00:47:56.630 --> 00:47:58.269
to tell you about the character of the human

00:47:58.269 --> 00:48:02.250
being that we're coaching. Marines by nature

00:48:02.250 --> 00:48:05.929
are stubborn bastards. So it was very fun to

00:48:05.929 --> 00:48:12.519
watch for me as I sit back. But yeah, we want

00:48:12.519 --> 00:48:14.139
this to be something more. We want them to go

00:48:14.139 --> 00:48:18.500
back to their units and to build their own smaller

00:48:18.500 --> 00:48:21.280
competitions amongst their Marines. We want them

00:48:21.280 --> 00:48:25.440
to know how to build these competitions and how

00:48:25.440 --> 00:48:28.039
to find the Kelsey needs at their location to

00:48:28.039 --> 00:48:31.980
bring in and establish that long -term coaching

00:48:31.980 --> 00:48:37.659
network and coaching philosophy. We want the

00:48:37.659 --> 00:48:41.860
imitation to reoccur. uh at these other locations

00:48:41.860 --> 00:48:44.039
and we really really do want to just inspire

00:48:44.039 --> 00:48:48.539
the marines to go seek seek you know coaching

00:48:48.539 --> 00:48:51.880
go find uh all of these incredible individuals

00:48:51.880 --> 00:48:55.500
that that marine corps and semper fit uh are

00:48:55.500 --> 00:48:58.480
constantly hiring you know hey i'm struggling

00:48:58.480 --> 00:49:00.340
to lose weight well have you gone to go see the

00:49:00.340 --> 00:49:03.340
dietitian no do we have one of those yes uh go

00:49:03.340 --> 00:49:05.000
see the dietitian in fact why don't we bring

00:49:05.000 --> 00:49:07.099
the dietitian in to do an entire evaluation of

00:49:07.099 --> 00:49:10.630
the entire unit I mean, you know, the network

00:49:10.630 --> 00:49:13.409
is there and we just have to encourage Marines

00:49:13.409 --> 00:49:18.570
to go seek out that help across the board. And

00:49:18.570 --> 00:49:21.369
so if we can do that at the entry level training

00:49:21.369 --> 00:49:23.969
network, we feel that, you know, in three to

00:49:23.969 --> 00:49:27.829
four years, we can raise a Marine Corps that

00:49:27.829 --> 00:49:31.929
understands that seeking help and fitness of

00:49:31.929 --> 00:49:34.849
any kind, any of the pillars of fitness is a

00:49:34.849 --> 00:49:36.570
sign of strength and not a sign of weakness.

00:49:37.869 --> 00:49:40.730
You know, that's really an interesting topic,

00:49:40.730 --> 00:49:45.329
a subject that Nick brings up, because these

00:49:45.329 --> 00:49:47.550
individuals that are coming from these different

00:49:47.550 --> 00:49:50.230
training commands, I mean, they're very skilled

00:49:50.230 --> 00:49:53.349
from an athletic standpoint, but their knowledge

00:49:53.349 --> 00:49:57.300
is just not there. And what they're interested

00:49:57.300 --> 00:50:01.139
in is is and we I really I think, Nick, that's

00:50:01.139 --> 00:50:02.940
Kelsey. I don't know about you, but I think one

00:50:02.940 --> 00:50:05.460
of the greatest moments in the week with them

00:50:05.460 --> 00:50:09.579
is all of a sudden this realization. That, yeah,

00:50:09.659 --> 00:50:12.739
they're there for this competition, but the juice,

00:50:12.980 --> 00:50:16.380
what they're really excited about is the content

00:50:16.380 --> 00:50:19.099
that is shared with them in the educational classroom.

00:50:19.599 --> 00:50:23.639
Yeah. Yeah. And that's. I think the most important

00:50:23.639 --> 00:50:27.480
part, but it's also honestly one of the harder

00:50:27.480 --> 00:50:30.860
parts because how do you, how do you give these

00:50:30.860 --> 00:50:34.460
guys a level above what regular Marines have

00:50:34.460 --> 00:50:37.519
knowledge -wise? How do you, how do you pick

00:50:37.519 --> 00:50:39.639
and choose what the most important things that

00:50:39.639 --> 00:50:43.559
they know are? Because I can't give them all

00:50:43.559 --> 00:50:47.380
six years of my college degree. Like how do I

00:50:47.380 --> 00:50:49.940
choose what they need to know? And how do I,

00:50:50.639 --> 00:50:54.440
um how do i help them realize that like hey to

00:50:54.440 --> 00:50:57.320
to to what you were saying nick they don't realize

00:50:57.320 --> 00:50:59.400
that we're even there so like they feel like

00:50:59.400 --> 00:51:01.820
there's all this information that they can't

00:51:01.820 --> 00:51:05.440
get across to their marines but they don't know

00:51:05.440 --> 00:51:07.500
that someone like me exists they might think

00:51:07.500 --> 00:51:10.340
that there's a group x instructor there's some

00:51:10.340 --> 00:51:12.099
personal trainers but they don't have the same

00:51:12.099 --> 00:51:14.079
background as me they're not the same they don't

00:51:14.079 --> 00:51:16.820
do the same thing so is there someone i can go

00:51:16.820 --> 00:51:20.260
to to to get a reminder of that knowledge because

00:51:20.260 --> 00:51:23.139
we inundate them with so much education during

00:51:23.139 --> 00:51:25.940
the during the week here like we give them so

00:51:25.940 --> 00:51:30.460
much information but when they're back to whatever

00:51:30.460 --> 00:51:33.599
school they're in like can they go to somebody

00:51:33.599 --> 00:51:37.559
else and can they say hey i learned about x y

00:51:37.559 --> 00:51:39.599
and z i really would like to know more about

00:51:39.599 --> 00:51:42.159
it or Hey, can you refresh my memory? Because

00:51:42.159 --> 00:51:44.639
I was talking about this, you know, last month,

00:51:44.659 --> 00:51:46.500
but I really want to incorporate it. And I'm

00:51:46.500 --> 00:51:48.440
not sure how to incorporate it, but I really

00:51:48.440 --> 00:51:51.460
want to. And letting them know that, hey, you're

00:51:51.460 --> 00:51:53.440
not going to know everything all at once. It's

00:51:53.440 --> 00:51:57.980
okay to find people to help you. I think that's

00:51:57.980 --> 00:52:00.639
really, really important. And yes, it's that

00:52:00.639 --> 00:52:03.679
light bulb moment of like, I'm here to win, but

00:52:03.679 --> 00:52:07.099
like, I'm also here to learn how to be better

00:52:07.099 --> 00:52:11.900
at my job for my Marines. Typically, the dawn

00:52:11.900 --> 00:52:16.699
of the education is far more important. Both

00:52:16.699 --> 00:52:18.840
years we've had the same three groups of people,

00:52:18.880 --> 00:52:20.380
different numbers of people in each group, but

00:52:20.380 --> 00:52:23.599
there's the tier that find themselves, you know,

00:52:23.619 --> 00:52:25.539
they're incredible Marine Corps athletes and

00:52:25.539 --> 00:52:26.780
they're in very good shape according to Marine

00:52:26.780 --> 00:52:29.340
Corps standards, but in this highly competitive

00:52:29.340 --> 00:52:31.880
environment, they don't measure up. And so they

00:52:31.880 --> 00:52:34.849
become... incredible students straight away.

00:52:34.969 --> 00:52:37.289
They want to learn everything. They come to every

00:52:37.289 --> 00:52:40.389
after class. They get every coach's number. They're

00:52:40.389 --> 00:52:44.630
incredible. There's the very small top tier that

00:52:44.630 --> 00:52:47.150
are the top tier of athletes, even in the competitive

00:52:47.150 --> 00:52:50.070
environment. But those individuals are humble

00:52:50.070 --> 00:52:52.010
enough to know that there's still something more

00:52:52.010 --> 00:52:54.670
that I can learn. There's something that I can

00:52:54.670 --> 00:52:57.809
do to do better and everything else. Now, coincidentally,

00:52:57.809 --> 00:53:00.889
I went back and looked. If they finish in the

00:53:00.889 --> 00:53:04.550
top five of the swim event of both years, the

00:53:04.550 --> 00:53:07.590
top five of the swim event has carried the remainder

00:53:07.590 --> 00:53:11.550
of the week, which is interesting. And it's the

00:53:11.550 --> 00:53:13.670
middle group, which perplexes me. The middle

00:53:13.670 --> 00:53:17.769
group are very, very fit athletes. They're slightly

00:53:17.769 --> 00:53:20.110
fitter than sort of the first group I mentioned.

00:53:20.329 --> 00:53:27.630
And they have typically some form of... a little

00:53:27.630 --> 00:53:29.889
bit of education they're conversationally competent

00:53:29.889 --> 00:53:35.050
in it um and and they spend the first two days

00:53:35.050 --> 00:53:37.550
not paying attention to class and you can you

00:53:37.550 --> 00:53:39.289
can just sit back and watch the people who don't

00:53:39.289 --> 00:53:40.789
have notebooks the people are just sitting there

00:53:40.789 --> 00:53:43.309
uh there's always the there's always the one

00:53:43.309 --> 00:53:45.269
guy who says like hey does anybody want to go

00:53:45.269 --> 00:53:46.989
work out like i don't really feel like i got

00:53:46.989 --> 00:53:49.230
a great workout today you're in the middle of

00:53:49.230 --> 00:53:51.329
a fitness competition you're gonna get an extra

00:53:51.329 --> 00:53:54.650
workout and so and then you watch i don't know

00:53:54.650 --> 00:53:59.150
yet absolutely yeah they really don't um because

00:53:59.150 --> 00:54:01.289
they've never had to do two to three workouts

00:54:01.289 --> 00:54:04.110
over a six day period consistently right it's

00:54:04.110 --> 00:54:07.329
the volume that that that they're like oh day

00:54:07.329 --> 00:54:10.170
two i don't feel that sore like okay wait um

00:54:10.170 --> 00:54:16.130
it's that middle group um that that you kind

00:54:16.130 --> 00:54:18.130
of have to around wednesday of the competition

00:54:18.130 --> 00:54:21.210
walk over to and just say all right hey how's

00:54:21.210 --> 00:54:22.829
it going like the competition's not going as

00:54:22.829 --> 00:54:24.750
well as you thought like okay remember this is

00:54:24.750 --> 00:54:27.469
this is also a faculty development program um

00:54:27.469 --> 00:54:30.710
you know keep at it um there's always the guy

00:54:30.710 --> 00:54:33.250
who can deadlift you know 700 pounds and congratulations

00:54:33.250 --> 00:54:37.670
on 17th um like that that's fantastic mongo moved

00:54:37.670 --> 00:54:41.550
the bar um but congrats on on finishing in the

00:54:41.550 --> 00:54:45.170
bottom tier of the competition uh fitness is

00:54:45.170 --> 00:54:50.139
more uh than than just uh weights and and we

00:54:50.139 --> 00:54:53.619
program around that philosophy and that uh all

00:54:53.619 --> 00:54:55.239
of the weights that we program are typically

00:54:55.239 --> 00:54:58.980
a percentage of the human's body weight um so

00:54:58.980 --> 00:55:01.340
instead of thrusters at 95 pounds it's thrusters

00:55:01.340 --> 00:55:04.420
at 50 of their body weight um and in that way

00:55:04.420 --> 00:55:08.679
um we can sort of norm the workouts. Everybody

00:55:08.679 --> 00:55:12.139
has the exact same stimulus of the workout. And

00:55:12.139 --> 00:55:14.340
it's not so much that the strongest athlete wins,

00:55:14.519 --> 00:55:17.179
but we're looking for that strength to weight

00:55:17.179 --> 00:55:19.880
ratio in this competition to a large degree.

00:55:22.300 --> 00:55:26.659
How do you manage to forge that humility so that

00:55:26.659 --> 00:55:34.269
more people can be in those top two tiers? I've

00:55:34.269 --> 00:55:36.570
gotten pretty, we were able to head it off a

00:55:36.570 --> 00:55:43.889
lot more. Yeah. Yeah. I'll walk up to an athlete

00:55:43.889 --> 00:55:48.650
who's, who's a Marine. I changed clothes a lot.

00:55:48.710 --> 00:55:50.590
Like I literally changed clothes a lot in the

00:55:50.590 --> 00:55:53.030
event. So if I'm going to talk to a competitor

00:55:53.030 --> 00:55:55.489
and I'm going to talk to him about, you know,

00:55:55.489 --> 00:55:58.869
his conduct or, or him being, we have a very

00:55:58.869 --> 00:56:03.309
strong rule. um called be a good dude um and

00:56:03.309 --> 00:56:07.389
if they're violating that rule um i'll put you

00:56:07.389 --> 00:56:10.670
know the entire marine corps uniform on um not

00:56:10.670 --> 00:56:13.050
just in pt gear and i'll pull them aside and

00:56:13.050 --> 00:56:16.809
um one of the perks of being a lieutenant colonel

00:56:16.809 --> 00:56:19.369
you know i don't have to raise my voice i can

00:56:19.369 --> 00:56:22.030
just ask ask the individual a number of questions

00:56:22.030 --> 00:56:24.869
and they very very quickly realize that that

00:56:24.869 --> 00:56:26.710
they have broken the cardinal rule of be a good

00:56:26.710 --> 00:56:31.610
dude um and so We haven't had a problem after

00:56:31.610 --> 00:56:33.269
any of that. I've talked to maybe two, three

00:56:33.269 --> 00:56:35.289
athletes over the two years about just, hey,

00:56:35.349 --> 00:56:41.969
check your attitude. Last year, I called it out.

00:56:42.010 --> 00:56:43.570
I called out that second group and said, hey,

00:56:43.590 --> 00:56:45.570
last year we had this group. I hope it's less

00:56:45.570 --> 00:56:47.929
this year. And I think that worked a little bit.

00:56:47.969 --> 00:56:50.110
This year, we'll do the same thing. We'll make

00:56:50.110 --> 00:56:52.070
the athletes aware of sort of the trend of the

00:56:52.070 --> 00:56:55.449
three groups. And we really, really do stress

00:56:55.449 --> 00:56:59.309
all day every day the competition. The competition's

00:56:59.309 --> 00:57:03.030
the fun part, right? Go out, give it everything

00:57:03.030 --> 00:57:05.789
you have, put the education that we're giving

00:57:05.789 --> 00:57:10.110
you to use. But in the end, if you finish in

00:57:10.110 --> 00:57:12.469
the top three, that's incredible. If you finish

00:57:12.469 --> 00:57:14.289
in the bottom three and you took away an enormous

00:57:14.289 --> 00:57:16.309
amount of notes, much like the MacTec four -year

00:57:16.309 --> 00:57:18.510
exercise that I mentioned that's done at 29 Palms,

00:57:18.630 --> 00:57:21.650
the athlete who walks away with the most notes,

00:57:21.750 --> 00:57:24.460
they're the ones who are... really winning this

00:57:24.460 --> 00:57:26.300
competition and this event because they're going

00:57:26.300 --> 00:57:28.300
to go back and they're going to start to evaluate

00:57:28.300 --> 00:57:32.980
how they do and really that sort of self -education

00:57:32.980 --> 00:57:36.380
and that the passion is how i found my way into

00:57:36.380 --> 00:57:39.440
coaching and to any degree is that after college

00:57:39.440 --> 00:57:41.599
lacrosse i joined the marine corps and i found

00:57:41.599 --> 00:57:44.320
that i had no idea how to work out i could i

00:57:44.320 --> 00:57:46.280
could execute baseline movements because that

00:57:46.280 --> 00:57:48.079
had been drilled into me but i didn't know why

00:57:48.079 --> 00:57:50.480
i didn't know why i was doing this squad or this

00:57:50.480 --> 00:57:52.579
or this periodization of this because no one

00:57:52.579 --> 00:57:54.619
ever actually taught me and so when i tried to

00:57:54.619 --> 00:57:56.920
put it together back together myself as a young

00:57:56.920 --> 00:57:59.670
officer and balance it with life I found that

00:57:59.670 --> 00:58:01.610
A, I was getting really out of shape, and B,

00:58:01.809 --> 00:58:04.289
I was always getting injured. And so I started

00:58:04.289 --> 00:58:06.969
to hit the books on my own. The more and more

00:58:06.969 --> 00:58:10.030
that I found, read and understood, and then found

00:58:10.030 --> 00:58:13.449
the Kelsey Meads of the world at Camp Lejeune,

00:58:13.489 --> 00:58:15.349
North Carolina, when I was a young officer, like

00:58:15.349 --> 00:58:18.210
better in shape than I got. The better in shape

00:58:18.210 --> 00:58:20.570
that I got, the more I wanted to drive my buddies

00:58:20.570 --> 00:58:24.369
to the gym. and introduce them um to to the hit

00:58:24.369 --> 00:58:26.730
coaches and say like all right hey let's let's

00:58:26.730 --> 00:58:28.489
let's work out with this hit coach she's she's

00:58:28.489 --> 00:58:30.230
really really good she can come and she can tailor

00:58:30.230 --> 00:58:34.010
x y and z um and then for whatever reason they

00:58:34.010 --> 00:58:36.809
always had sort of this absolute like 20 minute

00:58:36.809 --> 00:58:39.369
ad program at the leisure and hit gym that was

00:58:39.369 --> 00:58:41.409
just if you want to talk about a class that was

00:58:41.409 --> 00:58:43.530
packed there were a hundred participants almost

00:58:43.530 --> 00:58:46.289
every day in that class uh and it was really

00:58:46.289 --> 00:58:48.530
just planking and leg lifts for for 20 minutes

00:58:48.530 --> 00:58:53.280
it was terrible um but we kept coming back. And

00:58:53.280 --> 00:58:55.639
when, you know, when we came sort of those regulars

00:58:55.639 --> 00:58:58.380
and the hit staff knew that we were serious about

00:58:58.380 --> 00:59:02.360
it, then the level of coaching, the level of

00:59:02.360 --> 00:59:04.000
programming started to get more and more. And

00:59:04.000 --> 00:59:06.360
we started bringing them out to units and, and

00:59:06.360 --> 00:59:09.199
I heard, Hey, we're having trouble maintaining

00:59:09.199 --> 00:59:10.900
that the habits are displaced on under seven

00:59:10.900 --> 00:59:12.780
minutes. Like what can you talk us through? So

00:59:12.780 --> 00:59:16.920
it all sort of evolved into where we are now.

00:59:18.909 --> 00:59:22.170
trying to give back to the Marines. How do we

00:59:22.170 --> 00:59:25.250
arm these Marines with everything that they need

00:59:25.250 --> 00:59:27.650
to be able to teach to include physical fitness?

00:59:27.889 --> 00:59:31.570
And so that way we can take morning PT as serious

00:59:31.570 --> 00:59:34.090
as we do every other classroom that these Marines

00:59:34.090 --> 00:59:40.309
are in. The fitness standard in police and fire

00:59:40.309 --> 00:59:43.550
is vehemently opposed, and I never understood

00:59:43.550 --> 00:59:45.829
it. And, you know, this is the thing is that

00:59:45.829 --> 00:59:47.690
when you're already on the back foot as a profession,

00:59:47.869 --> 00:59:49.690
you get this one group that thinks you're trying

00:59:49.690 --> 00:59:51.590
to take their jobs by putting a fitness standard.

00:59:52.030 --> 00:59:54.090
But if you look at the performance, if you look

00:59:54.090 --> 00:59:57.030
at the longevity and then also the humility that

00:59:57.030 --> 00:59:59.170
you just talked about, when you think in your

00:59:59.170 --> 01:00:01.269
mind that you're still that, you know, 22 year

01:00:01.269 --> 01:00:04.030
old stud, but now that you're 38 and you've let

01:00:04.030 --> 01:00:06.429
a little extra weight come on, I think it's a

01:00:06.429 --> 01:00:09.639
great tool to remind you like, oh. OK, I can't

01:00:09.639 --> 01:00:11.639
actually climb 10 flights of stairs with all

01:00:11.639 --> 01:00:14.380
my gear and hose and some spare air bottles like

01:00:14.380 --> 01:00:16.559
I would have to in a high rise fire. I think

01:00:16.559 --> 01:00:18.199
there's so much importance to that. And it's

01:00:18.199 --> 01:00:20.260
so sad that my profession has resisted, which

01:00:20.260 --> 01:00:23.239
is why I hope in this revolution that we're beginning

01:00:23.239 --> 01:00:25.639
now to change the working environment that then

01:00:25.639 --> 01:00:28.500
alongside that we can put that bar as you know

01:00:28.500 --> 01:00:31.119
where it needs to be at the top. An interesting

01:00:31.119 --> 01:00:34.440
thing that I've seen over the last 10, 15 years

01:00:34.440 --> 01:00:38.059
as a firefighter and a coach is rather than.

01:00:39.069 --> 01:00:41.030
specific exercise, like, oh, you should do this

01:00:41.030 --> 01:00:43.389
as a firefighter. What I found is a lot more

01:00:43.389 --> 01:00:45.550
well received, just principles. You know, like

01:00:45.550 --> 01:00:47.309
you said, there was the bodybuilding world. I

01:00:47.309 --> 01:00:50.909
think from my profession, sandbags, sleds, kettlebells,

01:00:50.909 --> 01:00:54.289
those are so good. And so, you know, such direct

01:00:54.289 --> 01:00:56.889
correlation to what we do. I'm going to go to

01:00:56.889 --> 01:00:58.070
you, Kelsey, because I know we're running out

01:00:58.070 --> 01:01:00.809
of time before you got to go. What have you seen

01:01:00.809 --> 01:01:03.489
as far as the evolution of training principles,

01:01:03.750 --> 01:01:06.110
even the lessons learned from the last three

01:01:06.110 --> 01:01:08.050
years of the Fittest Instructor Competition?

01:01:11.510 --> 01:01:15.909
Well, I don't know how in relation to the Fittest

01:01:15.909 --> 01:01:19.010
Instructor Competition. Nick would be better

01:01:19.010 --> 01:01:23.769
at that, but I can say that the events are his

01:01:23.769 --> 01:01:28.260
creation, right? Nick has been the one to say,

01:01:28.340 --> 01:01:31.380
I want to do this and this. And he comes at me

01:01:31.380 --> 01:01:33.639
and says, is this crazy, Kelsey? And sometimes

01:01:33.639 --> 01:01:36.500
I say yes. More often than not, I might say yes.

01:01:39.639 --> 01:01:43.460
But I don't know if that, because this is such

01:01:43.460 --> 01:01:45.500
a unique competition, I don't know if that's

01:01:45.500 --> 01:01:50.179
a good like benchmark for the rest of the Marine

01:01:50.179 --> 01:01:52.980
Corps, right? In terms of principles, because

01:01:52.980 --> 01:01:56.219
- While I may give a brief at the beginning of

01:01:56.219 --> 01:01:58.039
the fitness instructor competition about how

01:01:58.039 --> 01:02:01.679
to train or how to write a good program, like

01:02:01.679 --> 01:02:05.260
here are some baseline information on how you

01:02:05.260 --> 01:02:07.659
should write a good strength conditioning program

01:02:07.659 --> 01:02:12.179
for your Marines. That doesn't directly correlate

01:02:12.179 --> 01:02:17.699
to the events because the events are so intense,

01:02:17.920 --> 01:02:21.719
like a solid strength conditioning program. is

01:02:21.719 --> 01:02:24.139
going to not lend itself to the events right

01:02:24.139 --> 01:02:26.440
like you have to train for the events you have

01:02:26.440 --> 01:02:29.699
to train kind of in that extreme outlier kind

01:02:29.699 --> 01:02:32.900
of area to be good at the events in my opinion

01:02:32.900 --> 01:02:36.099
um and that's not to say that you can't but most

01:02:36.099 --> 01:02:37.519
likely those marines aren't going to do that

01:02:37.519 --> 01:02:39.739
well on their own they're going to need a coach

01:02:39.739 --> 01:02:45.679
to help do that um so i think the event the fittest

01:02:45.679 --> 01:02:48.219
instructor competition is kind of like an outlier

01:02:48.219 --> 01:02:53.039
to the principles that we're trying to, we're

01:02:53.039 --> 01:02:55.400
trying to see, we're trying to force to change,

01:02:55.519 --> 01:02:59.480
I guess, overall. But that's not to say that,

01:02:59.480 --> 01:03:02.519
you know, I don't deal on a daily basis with

01:03:02.519 --> 01:03:04.780
like one group of Marines saying, I don't need

01:03:04.780 --> 01:03:06.659
to do that. And another group of Marines saying,

01:03:06.800 --> 01:03:09.320
oh, that's exactly what I need to do. And then

01:03:09.320 --> 01:03:11.039
how do I get the group of Marines that are saying,

01:03:11.059 --> 01:03:14.139
I don't need to do that to do the thing, right?

01:03:14.570 --> 01:03:18.269
I may have one group of Marines that says, we

01:03:18.269 --> 01:03:20.610
don't need to be able to move, like do crazy

01:03:20.610 --> 01:03:22.510
agility stuff. Like, why are you having us do

01:03:22.510 --> 01:03:25.530
agility and like SAQ stuff? I'm like, well, explosive

01:03:25.530 --> 01:03:27.630
power is still important. And they're like, yeah,

01:03:27.690 --> 01:03:30.250
but like, I can do that on my own. And you know

01:03:30.250 --> 01:03:32.789
what? There are some cases where I'm just like,

01:03:32.889 --> 01:03:36.429
you're right. You can do that on your own. You

01:03:36.429 --> 01:03:39.510
don't need as much SAQ stuff, as much agility

01:03:39.510 --> 01:03:42.570
stuff, as much speed work as this group over

01:03:42.570 --> 01:03:44.909
here. You're not wrong. But that's not to say

01:03:44.909 --> 01:03:47.070
that it's wrong for you to do this stuff either.

01:03:48.130 --> 01:03:50.869
So in some cases, you're not going to get them

01:03:50.869 --> 01:03:52.809
to realize that the principles that you're trying

01:03:52.809 --> 01:03:56.190
to put into their programming are important.

01:03:57.010 --> 01:04:00.570
And you kind of have to pick and choose your

01:04:00.570 --> 01:04:03.190
battles, I think, depending on who you're working

01:04:03.190 --> 01:04:11.429
with. Kelsey brings up a really good sort of

01:04:11.429 --> 01:04:16.699
dichotomy there. Marines are, the PFT and the

01:04:16.699 --> 01:04:19.099
CFT are calculated, especially in a young Marines

01:04:19.099 --> 01:04:21.880
case, the score of the PFT and CFT are calculated

01:04:21.880 --> 01:04:25.260
into what we call a cutting score. And it's based

01:04:25.260 --> 01:04:26.900
on a number of different performance metrics

01:04:26.900 --> 01:04:29.659
to see if they're promotable to the next rank.

01:04:30.380 --> 01:04:34.139
And even when you get to a certain rank and you're

01:04:34.139 --> 01:04:35.760
no longer dealing with cutting scores, you're

01:04:35.760 --> 01:04:39.480
dealing with the performance reports within the

01:04:39.480 --> 01:04:42.880
Marine Corps. the pft and the c the pft cft and

01:04:42.880 --> 01:04:46.219
the your rifle pistol score are the only four

01:04:46.219 --> 01:04:52.300
physical markers of performance uh on it so there

01:04:52.300 --> 01:04:55.440
there is a very uh there's a very large dichotomy

01:04:55.440 --> 01:04:58.159
i i think it's getting it's getting slower and

01:04:58.159 --> 01:05:01.079
or smaller and smaller at least in in the marine

01:05:01.079 --> 01:05:02.599
corps that i've hung out in which is very much

01:05:02.599 --> 01:05:04.960
you know the infantry the artillery uh communities

01:05:04.960 --> 01:05:09.769
um Whereas an artilleryman doesn't need to be

01:05:09.769 --> 01:05:11.829
able to move heavy objects or deadlift or anything

01:05:11.829 --> 01:05:14.250
else to pass the PFT -C18 to get a good score.

01:05:14.409 --> 01:05:16.869
What they need to be able to do is, but when

01:05:16.869 --> 01:05:18.730
they're doing their tactical job, an artillery

01:05:18.730 --> 01:05:21.409
round weighs 100 pounds. And so to be able to

01:05:21.409 --> 01:05:23.030
move that and to be able to move, you know, the

01:05:23.030 --> 01:05:24.429
equipment and everything else that we're doing,

01:05:24.510 --> 01:05:28.909
that requires sort of a different scope of fitness.

01:05:29.849 --> 01:05:32.829
And it's blurring those two requirements, right?

01:05:32.909 --> 01:05:34.650
One is going to get me promoted. One is going

01:05:34.650 --> 01:05:37.329
to get me a higher score on a performance eval.

01:05:37.550 --> 01:05:40.050
And one is going to make it so I'm very, very

01:05:40.050 --> 01:05:46.730
good at my job. And that is a very hard line.

01:05:49.760 --> 01:05:53.679
uh to truly truly blur in a very of course there

01:05:53.679 --> 01:05:55.300
are strength and conditioning programs that can

01:05:55.300 --> 01:05:58.280
manage all of that but those are very long -term

01:05:58.280 --> 01:06:02.199
programs that require a very high level of sort

01:06:02.199 --> 01:06:05.940
of programmatic thought discipline and and you

01:06:05.940 --> 01:06:08.920
have to stick and stick with it and sometimes

01:06:08.920 --> 01:06:11.300
ideally what we want space in the day we want

01:06:11.300 --> 01:06:14.800
yeah it is a marine's life it's hard to do that

01:06:14.800 --> 01:06:18.559
predictable yeah exactly Well, it's good that

01:06:18.559 --> 01:06:21.239
you have that as part of the promotional system

01:06:21.239 --> 01:06:24.260
too. I had a police chief from Idaho and that's

01:06:24.260 --> 01:06:26.780
what they did. You got points for maxing out

01:06:26.780 --> 01:06:29.320
on their physical test. And I think that's what

01:06:29.320 --> 01:06:31.139
we should have in the first responders. You know,

01:06:31.139 --> 01:06:33.139
if you are going to be out in the field and you're

01:06:33.139 --> 01:06:36.099
required to be a certain level of athleticism

01:06:36.099 --> 01:06:38.719
because you're still wearing the gear, then absolutely

01:06:38.719 --> 01:06:40.760
that should be factored in just like in the Marines.

01:06:42.239 --> 01:06:46.329
Yeah. I think the hard thing, I mean, I do a

01:06:46.329 --> 01:06:48.849
lot in fire and law enforcement, and what's hard

01:06:48.849 --> 01:06:54.469
is the skill level is so diverse. I'm talking

01:06:54.469 --> 01:06:58.769
about the health level. And one of the big intimidation

01:06:58.769 --> 01:07:01.769
factors that I see in fire is that the people

01:07:01.769 --> 01:07:04.650
where life has just gotten in the way and they've

01:07:04.650 --> 01:07:07.210
lost their fitness. And it's not that they're

01:07:07.210 --> 01:07:09.449
not motivated to try and find it. They just don't

01:07:09.449 --> 01:07:12.480
know what to do. And I think going back to what

01:07:12.480 --> 01:07:15.480
I said at the very beginning, elite level athletes

01:07:15.480 --> 01:07:18.840
have what we call an athlete -centered training

01:07:18.840 --> 01:07:22.179
model. It's personalized around their prior results

01:07:22.179 --> 01:07:25.400
and their goals. And one of the skill sets, for

01:07:25.400 --> 01:07:29.260
example, that Kelsey can provide is a personalized

01:07:29.260 --> 01:07:32.260
type of training program, a weightlifting program

01:07:32.260 --> 01:07:35.619
that is geared around their prior results, but

01:07:35.619 --> 01:07:41.480
also their obligations as a Marine. always interested

01:07:41.480 --> 01:07:46.639
me within Special Forces is this requirement

01:07:46.639 --> 01:07:51.000
to ruck. They've got the volume, the distance

01:07:51.000 --> 01:07:54.440
that they must go when carrying a ruck, and the

01:07:54.440 --> 01:07:58.139
training protocols are pretty solid building

01:07:58.139 --> 01:08:02.900
capacity, that ability to endure. But the load

01:08:02.900 --> 01:08:08.179
that they carry immediately ramps to full load

01:08:08.179 --> 01:08:11.199
with after a short number of weeks meaning they're

01:08:11.199 --> 01:08:13.579
just assuming that you have the strength but

01:08:13.579 --> 01:08:16.039
you don't have the ability to endure well what

01:08:16.039 --> 01:08:18.579
about people like myself i don't have a problem

01:08:18.579 --> 01:08:22.020
in doing that 18 miles not at all the problem

01:08:22.020 --> 01:08:25.619
is is i can't do it with the load and that's

01:08:25.619 --> 01:08:29.399
where things i think are evolving um like we're

01:08:29.399 --> 01:08:33.800
seeing in fire that we're trying to get to create

01:08:33.800 --> 01:08:37.130
a relative intensity based upon your current

01:08:37.130 --> 01:08:39.050
level of fitness, and then where do you need

01:08:39.050 --> 01:08:42.390
to go? And that's essentially the holy grail

01:08:42.390 --> 01:08:46.569
in programming, personalization. And so I see

01:08:46.569 --> 01:08:49.989
that a shift occurring within FIRE, but for sure

01:08:49.989 --> 01:08:53.729
with the group that come out for the fitness

01:08:53.729 --> 01:08:56.909
instructor. I mean, one of the pieces that Nick

01:08:56.909 --> 01:09:00.909
and I worked on back in year one was when they

01:09:00.909 --> 01:09:05.279
do a... A Marine does a CFT 880 run and they

01:09:05.279 --> 01:09:08.739
then have to do their PFT three mile run. Well,

01:09:08.859 --> 01:09:11.119
Marine Corps is great at collecting the results,

01:09:11.560 --> 01:09:14.220
but they don't do anything with the results.

01:09:15.579 --> 01:09:17.800
What do those results tell you? Do you need to

01:09:17.800 --> 01:09:19.739
do more speed training? Do you need to have more

01:09:19.739 --> 01:09:21.600
strength? Do you need to have more power output?

01:09:21.720 --> 01:09:24.640
Or do you need to work on your stamina, your

01:09:24.640 --> 01:09:28.079
endurance? Well, one of the pieces that Nick

01:09:28.079 --> 01:09:31.180
and I did was is, yeah, you collect the information.

01:09:31.850 --> 01:09:34.869
But now when you enter that 880 time and that

01:09:34.869 --> 01:09:39.050
three -mile time, it tells you precisely what

01:09:39.050 --> 01:09:41.229
is your weakness, what's the magnitude of your

01:09:41.229 --> 01:09:44.130
weakness, and what should you train on and the

01:09:44.130 --> 01:09:47.270
frequency of what you should train with precision.

01:09:47.710 --> 01:09:51.630
Well, my numbers show a different result than

01:09:51.630 --> 01:09:55.710
Nick's and Kelsey's, and that is where it starts.

01:09:56.350 --> 01:09:58.949
That what we're giving you something is yours.

01:09:59.109 --> 01:10:01.350
It's not just vanilla. It's not just generic.

01:10:01.550 --> 01:10:05.430
We're not just yelling at you. This is balanced.

01:10:06.130 --> 01:10:10.270
And I see that shift occurring. I mean, and Nick,

01:10:10.369 --> 01:10:11.890
I mean, I don't want to jump out of turn, but

01:10:11.890 --> 01:10:14.810
that's how Nick judges this. The scoring systems

01:10:14.810 --> 01:10:19.029
to be a Marine are in the PFT and CFTs. And that's

01:10:19.029 --> 01:10:21.270
how Nick judges these results. So men, women,

01:10:21.430 --> 01:10:24.569
old, young have the same shot based upon the

01:10:24.569 --> 01:10:30.840
standards. personalized. Yeah, we are afforded

01:10:30.840 --> 01:10:33.880
the opportunity in this competition that the

01:10:33.880 --> 01:10:40.680
Marine Corps isn't right now. We like to interpolate

01:10:40.680 --> 01:10:45.079
beyond the maximum scoring standard for a lot

01:10:45.079 --> 01:10:48.460
of different events. We like to say, what if

01:10:48.460 --> 01:10:54.560
we did this within this event? The year one,

01:10:54.560 --> 01:10:58.600
no break CFT was incredible. CFT has three events.

01:10:58.760 --> 01:11:00.920
There's five minutes of rest, no less than five

01:11:00.920 --> 01:11:03.239
minutes of rest in between them. And we said,

01:11:03.319 --> 01:11:04.939
what would happen if we just eliminated that

01:11:04.939 --> 01:11:07.680
rest? What do those three events look like if

01:11:07.680 --> 01:11:09.439
they're back to back to back? And it was very,

01:11:09.460 --> 01:11:15.420
very different. This year's CFT event that we're

01:11:15.420 --> 01:11:18.050
going to do involves marksmanship. So if you

01:11:18.050 --> 01:11:20.689
take event three of the combat fitness test,

01:11:20.890 --> 01:11:23.970
which is a sprint, a casualty evacuation, and

01:11:23.970 --> 01:11:26.649
an ammo resupply, it's a shuttle run with under

01:11:26.649 --> 01:11:32.630
load. And it's an anaerobic threshold test. To

01:11:32.630 --> 01:11:36.930
maximize it, you're in the 250 to 245 range for

01:11:36.930 --> 01:11:42.800
most age groups. It's painful. You know, going

01:11:42.800 --> 01:11:44.880
into the CFT that everything's going to hurt.

01:11:45.039 --> 01:11:47.600
And so this year, the Marine Corps shooting team

01:11:47.600 --> 01:11:50.100
that we have access to, and Kelsey is the primary

01:11:50.100 --> 01:11:54.340
strength coach for, said, what if we added a

01:11:54.340 --> 01:11:58.859
fine motor skill like marksmanship to the combat

01:11:58.859 --> 01:12:01.300
fitness test? And what if you had to, what if

01:12:01.300 --> 01:12:03.939
you were scored on your marksmanship while you're

01:12:03.939 --> 01:12:06.699
at enormously high heart rate? What does that

01:12:06.699 --> 01:12:10.880
do? And so every shot will either add or subtract

01:12:10.880 --> 01:12:14.220
time to that event. And then we'll compare that

01:12:14.220 --> 01:12:17.600
directly to that individual's Marine Corps event

01:12:17.600 --> 01:12:21.079
three time standard. So we get to play in the

01:12:21.079 --> 01:12:25.239
margins and we get to ask what if we did X in

01:12:25.239 --> 01:12:29.600
that way. a 20 year old female can directly compete

01:12:29.600 --> 01:12:33.619
against a 40 year old male um and in any and

01:12:33.619 --> 01:12:35.840
all strength events that we do we use the wilks

01:12:35.840 --> 01:12:37.979
coefficient as well so like i said we're looking

01:12:37.979 --> 01:12:43.100
for that strength uh uh strength to weight ratio

01:12:43.100 --> 01:12:45.479
and so it's not it's not just absolute raw strength

01:12:45.479 --> 01:12:50.210
it's what does that mean and as the um We get

01:12:50.210 --> 01:12:55.069
asked a lot if we are going to expand into a

01:12:55.069 --> 01:12:58.250
female and male category. And the answer is no.

01:12:58.409 --> 01:13:00.590
We have no plans to do that in said training

01:13:00.590 --> 01:13:03.789
commander with a fitness instructor. A, because

01:13:03.789 --> 01:13:08.489
that's not how combat works anymore. Combat arms

01:13:08.489 --> 01:13:12.390
are integrated, males and females. I was at Fort

01:13:12.390 --> 01:13:15.430
Sill when we were testing a number of the job

01:13:15.430 --> 01:13:19.770
-specific physical performance standards. And

01:13:19.770 --> 01:13:22.569
it became glaringly obvious to us when you take

01:13:22.569 --> 01:13:24.430
a look at the data, the initial data, you're

01:13:24.430 --> 01:13:27.869
like, oh, well, females are failing these very

01:13:27.869 --> 01:13:30.250
specific events that are required of cannoneers,

01:13:30.310 --> 01:13:32.470
mainly like an ammo can kind of carry. And so

01:13:32.470 --> 01:13:35.090
we kind of took a look at that and said, well,

01:13:35.170 --> 01:13:37.510
wait. they're not failing at any higher rate

01:13:37.510 --> 01:13:40.890
than a male who weighs under 150 pounds as well

01:13:40.890 --> 01:13:43.829
the round weighs 100 pounds and so it's not a

01:13:43.829 --> 01:13:47.390
male or female limitation if you're a corn -fed

01:13:47.390 --> 01:13:51.029
boy from nebraska who grew up hay baling you're

01:13:51.029 --> 01:13:54.890
going to have a easier time moving 100 pound

01:13:54.890 --> 01:13:59.189
artillery shells for it the aviation community

01:14:00.260 --> 01:14:03.659
has been far ahead of us for years. There's a

01:14:03.659 --> 01:14:09.119
height requirement in both tall and short in

01:14:09.119 --> 01:14:11.359
a lot of different cockpits. And that's used

01:14:11.359 --> 01:14:13.640
as a discriminator in terms of what you fly.

01:14:15.220 --> 01:14:17.539
Confirmed with an aviation buddy of mine before

01:14:17.539 --> 01:14:19.479
coming on here to make sure I'm not saying this

01:14:19.479 --> 01:14:22.880
wrong, but the aviation community uses femur

01:14:22.880 --> 01:14:25.199
length as a potential discriminator for what

01:14:25.199 --> 01:14:26.819
aircraft you're going to fly. Because if the

01:14:26.819 --> 01:14:30.109
ejection seat and your femur length are at the

01:14:30.109 --> 01:14:32.989
wrong ratio, if you eject, you have a greater

01:14:32.989 --> 01:14:35.029
than average chance of potentially the ejection

01:14:35.029 --> 01:14:39.350
seat breaking a femur. Are short pilots less

01:14:39.350 --> 01:14:42.130
capable? I don't know. The arm length, their

01:14:42.130 --> 01:14:44.250
ability to reach out and touch sort of that front

01:14:44.250 --> 01:14:49.210
of the cockpit is something. So it's any number

01:14:49.210 --> 01:14:52.510
of sort of physical attributes that Marines need.

01:14:53.029 --> 01:14:55.430
And we always find ways to work around those.

01:14:56.939 --> 01:14:58.319
At the competition, we get to play with that.

01:14:58.399 --> 01:15:01.720
We get to say, okay, what if this wasn't it?

01:15:02.399 --> 01:15:06.800
One of the things that Nick did last year was

01:15:06.800 --> 01:15:09.699
it was a mile run, and then you did five shots

01:15:09.699 --> 01:15:12.760
standing, five shots prone, three rounds. Yeah.

01:15:13.439 --> 01:15:18.079
So that came later in the competition. But by

01:15:18.079 --> 01:15:23.640
this time, and we've mentioned it earlier, I've

01:15:23.640 --> 01:15:26.880
spent a lot of time with the individual. um marines

01:15:26.880 --> 01:15:31.460
and being in a competition environment where

01:15:31.460 --> 01:15:33.800
they're struggling they're having a hard time

01:15:33.800 --> 01:15:38.760
they're now more engaged and more receptive how

01:15:38.760 --> 01:15:42.600
can i actually find a cheat code to make my performance

01:15:42.600 --> 01:15:47.319
go up and so in that event i'll run side by side

01:15:47.319 --> 01:15:50.779
with them i'll listen to their breathing and

01:15:50.779 --> 01:15:53.579
the other piece is is that when they come in

01:15:53.579 --> 01:15:56.909
from that mile -long run They've been carrying

01:15:56.909 --> 01:15:59.189
the rifle, they're wearing all their combat gear,

01:15:59.329 --> 01:16:03.130
and they've got 100 meters to get their ammunition

01:16:03.130 --> 01:16:06.569
and to get in position to take their first shot.

01:16:07.189 --> 01:16:09.770
It's very similar to what we see in the Olympic

01:16:09.770 --> 01:16:12.250
Games with the biathlon, cross -country skiing

01:16:12.250 --> 01:16:15.630
and shooting. The recovery protocol matters.

01:16:16.229 --> 01:16:20.550
Are they aware of, not just while they're running

01:16:20.550 --> 01:16:24.000
or doing something, the frequency of the breath

01:16:24.000 --> 01:16:27.020
and the consistency of their breath, but can

01:16:27.020 --> 01:16:30.619
they actually develop a recovery protocol that

01:16:30.619 --> 01:16:34.140
accelerates their ability to take that shot?

01:16:34.920 --> 01:16:38.800
And that to me is what's really interesting is

01:16:38.800 --> 01:16:41.939
it's not just these events and Nick just trying

01:16:41.939 --> 01:16:45.899
to hit a stimulus or to come up with some silly

01:16:45.899 --> 01:16:48.760
thing like 21 -15 -9 because that just is what...

01:16:49.039 --> 01:16:52.159
people are used to. There's purpose behind it.

01:16:52.199 --> 01:16:56.319
And people want to build from one to the next

01:16:56.319 --> 01:17:00.439
to the next. And that event was awesome. Last

01:17:00.439 --> 01:17:03.300
year, they did an event where it was, you're

01:17:03.300 --> 01:17:05.420
going to do three miles and you're going to do

01:17:05.420 --> 01:17:07.939
it in 50 minutes. No watch and the person closest

01:17:07.939 --> 01:17:13.180
to 50 minutes wins. Well, the Marines all practiced

01:17:13.180 --> 01:17:17.600
during that week, that same pace. What they realized

01:17:17.600 --> 01:17:19.979
is the purpose of training. The more you train

01:17:19.979 --> 01:17:22.880
at something, the better you get. That same event

01:17:22.880 --> 01:17:27.159
came at the end, where three miles in 50 minutes.

01:17:27.840 --> 01:17:31.140
Not difficult with a 45 -pound ruck, but it was

01:17:31.140 --> 01:17:33.979
about accuracy. Can you pace without looking

01:17:33.979 --> 01:17:37.399
at any kind of timing mechanisms or mileage markers?

01:17:37.840 --> 01:17:40.859
And what was awesome was, Nick, eight seconds

01:17:40.859 --> 01:17:46.940
or six seconds away from 50 minutes. Remarkable.

01:17:46.940 --> 01:17:50.659
Amazing. So, yeah, I find that really interesting.

01:17:51.479 --> 01:17:56.539
Remember how wide range? I think we had like

01:17:56.539 --> 01:18:03.119
a 15 minute span at event one of that. And so

01:18:03.119 --> 01:18:06.560
funny. You want to talk about like teaching humility.

01:18:06.859 --> 01:18:09.729
There were guys coming in. who just thought they

01:18:09.729 --> 01:18:13.310
had absolutely crushed that event and it was

01:18:13.310 --> 01:18:16.069
like congrats 65 minutes um like you're nowhere

01:18:16.069 --> 01:18:20.649
near the time you're 15 minutes up um and and

01:18:20.649 --> 01:18:23.510
more so event one and event 10 was so tight it

01:18:23.510 --> 01:18:25.850
was like three minute three minute difference

01:18:25.850 --> 01:18:28.810
like i think the widest time frame was was like

01:18:28.810 --> 01:18:32.550
53 minutes i mean everybody got so good at that

01:18:32.550 --> 01:18:35.770
event and was like got it now i can hit the sustainable

01:18:35.770 --> 01:18:39.960
pace for perpetuity hopefully and more so than

01:18:39.960 --> 01:18:44.020
that nick it was it was are you like a lot of

01:18:44.020 --> 01:18:47.520
them because it was a staggered start well what

01:18:47.520 --> 01:18:50.000
if the person in front of you was going too slow

01:18:50.000 --> 01:18:54.439
are you confident enough to be able to pass that

01:18:54.439 --> 01:18:58.600
person and so nick was very upfront and engaging

01:18:58.600 --> 01:19:02.579
with the marines about their confidence in their

01:19:02.579 --> 01:19:06.109
own ability how do you think you did And that's

01:19:06.109 --> 01:19:09.970
a big deal. The other piece that I do is like,

01:19:10.149 --> 01:19:12.430
James, if you were good at your own breathing,

01:19:12.569 --> 01:19:14.670
right, you have very good rhythm of your breath,

01:19:14.770 --> 01:19:17.270
you understand the cadence of your breath relative

01:19:17.270 --> 01:19:21.029
to your intensity. Many people are good doing

01:19:21.029 --> 01:19:24.470
it themselves and assessing themselves. But one

01:19:24.470 --> 01:19:28.069
of the pieces that is very interesting to me

01:19:28.069 --> 01:19:31.649
about the Marine Corps is these senior officers.

01:19:32.680 --> 01:19:37.279
Being able to observe others and make a determination

01:19:37.279 --> 01:19:41.439
of the level of difficulty that they're experiencing.

01:19:42.359 --> 01:19:46.819
And is that difficulty aerobic or is it stamina

01:19:46.819 --> 01:19:50.220
related? Have they not put in the time on their

01:19:50.220 --> 01:19:53.560
feet or is it that the intensity was too high?

01:19:53.819 --> 01:19:57.939
And can they do that through observation? And

01:19:57.939 --> 01:20:01.619
that to me is something that came to me. from

01:20:01.619 --> 01:20:05.520
senior command. We want to understand through

01:20:05.520 --> 01:20:08.340
observation, meaning no more just yelling and

01:20:08.340 --> 01:20:09.920
saying, you know, you need to work harder, you

01:20:09.920 --> 01:20:12.760
need to go faster. It's like, wait, maybe they

01:20:12.760 --> 01:20:14.880
are already working harder. And that's the same

01:20:14.880 --> 01:20:18.060
thing we see in fire. If you're climbing a stairwell

01:20:18.060 --> 01:20:21.779
with a buddy through observation, are you able

01:20:21.779 --> 01:20:24.020
to tell the difficulty that your partner's in?

01:20:25.220 --> 01:20:27.859
Because why would you ask such a dumb question

01:20:27.859 --> 01:20:31.810
to a Marine? How are you doing? Same thing to

01:20:31.810 --> 01:20:34.930
a firefighter. You ask any Marine and any firefighter

01:20:34.930 --> 01:20:36.430
how you're doing and he'll just give you the

01:20:36.430 --> 01:20:39.750
thumbs up. I'm good. And what we're trying to

01:20:39.750 --> 01:20:43.909
teach is that observation. Are you aware? And

01:20:43.909 --> 01:20:47.090
every single one of those 17 people last year

01:20:47.090 --> 01:20:50.689
learned that skill. Well, I was going to take

01:20:50.689 --> 01:20:54.289
that small example onto the lacrosse field, you

01:20:54.289 --> 01:20:56.350
know, in this weird world that I've become good

01:20:56.350 --> 01:20:58.289
friends with Chris and he and I talk about sports

01:20:58.289 --> 01:21:01.859
performance a lot and everything else. I've made

01:21:01.859 --> 01:21:05.439
decisions as a lacrosse coach, like mid -game

01:21:05.439 --> 01:21:06.920
or if it's in the fourth quarter, you call that

01:21:06.920 --> 01:21:08.760
timeout, right? And it's, you know, closing seconds

01:21:08.760 --> 01:21:11.140
and you got to do something. And you look at

01:21:11.140 --> 01:21:15.300
your stud player and your stud players, you're

01:21:15.300 --> 01:21:17.239
like, hey, are you good to run this play? And

01:21:17.239 --> 01:21:20.279
they're like, yes, coach. No, you're not. No,

01:21:20.300 --> 01:21:22.039
you're not at all. All right. Hey, we're going

01:21:22.039 --> 01:21:24.720
to, hey, let me go to my number two guy who's

01:21:24.720 --> 01:21:26.819
just as cool as a cucumber because he's, you

01:21:26.819 --> 01:21:28.880
know, he may not be as good a lacrosse player,

01:21:29.000 --> 01:21:31.039
but. He's got the legs and he's got the lungs

01:21:31.039 --> 01:21:33.340
right now where my stud is just, he doesn't even

01:21:33.340 --> 01:21:37.000
have the capacity to listen to me right now.

01:21:37.079 --> 01:21:42.119
And so it really, it transcends sport to service,

01:21:42.279 --> 01:21:49.960
to everything that we're doing. And that as a

01:21:49.960 --> 01:21:52.720
leader, and I'm sure it translates into fire.

01:21:54.670 --> 01:21:56.310
the fire and the police but if you're a coach

01:21:56.310 --> 01:21:58.350
if you're if you're a commander if you're in

01:21:58.350 --> 01:22:01.489
a leadership position in any way having an understanding

01:22:01.489 --> 01:22:04.289
of where your where your subordinates heads are

01:22:04.289 --> 01:22:07.350
at both in a macro and a micro sense is absolutely

01:22:07.350 --> 01:22:11.210
vital and not just you know can they perform

01:22:11.210 --> 01:22:14.890
in this moment but um the marine corps is a really

01:22:14.890 --> 01:22:17.609
really great marine corps total fitness strategy

01:22:17.609 --> 01:22:19.909
and we have multiple pillars of fitness and spiritual

01:22:19.909 --> 01:22:24.199
uh emotional mental um and physical and if if

01:22:24.199 --> 01:22:27.439
you as a leader a coach an instructor whatever

01:22:27.439 --> 01:22:30.000
whatever word you want to use if you don't know

01:22:30.000 --> 01:22:31.880
where your people are at across all of those

01:22:31.880 --> 01:22:34.960
and both the macro and the micro like it's it's

01:22:34.960 --> 01:22:36.659
a disservice to them and it's a disservice to

01:22:36.659 --> 01:22:39.079
the organization that you serve in because we

01:22:39.079 --> 01:22:41.560
we all deal in the capital of human beings doing

01:22:41.560 --> 01:22:45.699
incredibly dangerous things um without having

01:22:45.699 --> 01:22:48.239
a true a true dedication and understanding of

01:22:48.239 --> 01:22:52.550
how fitness across the board affects their ability

01:22:52.550 --> 01:22:56.109
to conduct these events, whether it's on a battlefield

01:22:56.109 --> 01:23:00.649
or in a high -rise fire, you're putting lives

01:23:00.649 --> 01:23:06.369
at risk, and that's good enough isn't. Absolutely.

01:23:06.789 --> 01:23:08.329
Well, I know we've got to be mindful of your

01:23:08.329 --> 01:23:11.069
time. We need to wrap up now. Before we do, for

01:23:11.069 --> 01:23:13.529
anyone listening, if they're interested in the

01:23:13.529 --> 01:23:17.109
fitness instructor competition, where are the

01:23:17.109 --> 01:23:21.260
best places for people to go? Marine Corps Base

01:23:21.260 --> 01:23:24.460
Quantico will be posting sort of the events.

01:23:24.720 --> 01:23:27.899
Marine Corps Base Quantico Facebook will be posting

01:23:27.899 --> 01:23:31.340
the events, the leaderboard. Training Command

01:23:31.340 --> 01:23:33.119
Instagram, which we'll get you the handle for,

01:23:33.439 --> 01:23:36.739
is going to do near live streaming. So we're

01:23:36.739 --> 01:23:38.819
going to make sure that we look at the video

01:23:38.819 --> 01:23:42.140
just quickly enough to get it out in near real

01:23:42.140 --> 01:23:44.220
time. But there's always going to be a little

01:23:44.220 --> 01:23:46.079
bit of editing. That's a lesson learned from

01:23:46.079 --> 01:23:52.270
last year. And as well as marines .mil, it's

01:23:52.270 --> 01:23:55.149
going to be another resource. If anybody listening

01:23:55.149 --> 01:23:59.520
to your podcast is... you know government employee

01:23:59.520 --> 01:24:03.880
we are going to be hosting as event 10 this year

01:24:03.880 --> 01:24:05.979
we are going to be hosting a memorial workout

01:24:05.979 --> 01:24:08.460
in honor of first lieutenant travis manion on

01:24:08.460 --> 01:24:11.539
29 april which happens to be the anniversary

01:24:11.539 --> 01:24:14.319
of his death so we're going to do a workout in

01:24:14.319 --> 01:24:16.880
honor of him at the marine corps war memorial

01:24:16.880 --> 01:24:19.819
in arlington virginia so we do want to invite

01:24:19.819 --> 01:24:24.659
out government employees civilian military etc

01:24:26.289 --> 01:24:28.149
Give me a shout. There's posters all up over

01:24:28.149 --> 01:24:29.989
the Pentagon, Henderson Hall, things like that.

01:24:30.109 --> 01:24:34.909
So we want to honor all fallen Marines, service

01:24:34.909 --> 01:24:38.369
members, first responders, Leo, like every hero

01:24:38.369 --> 01:24:41.250
that you've ever done. But this one in particular

01:24:41.250 --> 01:24:43.729
is on the anniversary of Travis's death. And

01:24:43.729 --> 01:24:45.689
so there's no better way to remind Marines that

01:24:45.689 --> 01:24:47.930
even if they give the ultimate sacrifice and

01:24:47.930 --> 01:24:50.409
they fall in combat, the Marine Corps is going

01:24:50.409 --> 01:24:53.789
to remember who they are. Absolutely. Well, I

01:24:53.789 --> 01:24:56.470
want to thank you both so much, and obviously

01:24:56.470 --> 01:24:58.109
Kelsey as well, though she can't hear this at

01:24:58.109 --> 01:25:00.470
the moment. It's been such an interesting conversation,

01:25:00.670 --> 01:25:04.189
three very different lenses. So I truly, truly

01:25:04.189 --> 01:25:06.390
appreciate you being so generous with your time

01:25:06.390 --> 01:25:08.609
and coming on the Behind the Shield podcast today.

01:25:09.229 --> 01:25:12.310
Thanks, James. This was incredible. Thank you

01:25:12.310 --> 01:25:12.590
so much.