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I'll spell that to you because it's not as you

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think, T -E -A -M -B -U -I -L -D -R .com. Welcome

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to the Behind the Shield podcast. As always,

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my name is James Gearing and this week it is

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my absolute honor to welcome back onto the show

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former gang unit officer and the host of the

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Disruptors podcast, Brian Sanders. Now, what's

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exciting about this second conversation is Brian

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recently retired from law enforcement. So we

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got to have not only a conversation with his

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real name this time, but secondly, really take

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a deep dive into all the things when it comes

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to the crime on the streets, but also areas that

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are broken in our profession that need to be

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addressed. Now, before we get to this incredible

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conversation, as I say every week, please just

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take a moment. Go to whichever app you listen

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to this on. Subscribe to the show, leave feedback,

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and leave a rating. Every single five -star rating

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truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making

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it easier for others to find. And this is a free

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library of well over 1 ,000 episodes now. So

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all I ask in return is that you help share these

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incredible men and women's stories so I can get

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them to every single person on planet Earth who

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needs to hear them. So with that being said...

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I welcome back onto the show, Brian Sanders.

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Enjoy. Well, Brian, I want to start by saying

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that I can call you Brian now. The last time

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that we spoke, you were a .k .a. B .C. Saunders.

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Sanders, excuse me. So I want to welcome you

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back onto the Behind the Shield podcast today.

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Dude, I appreciate it. And I love going by my

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actual name, Brian. And a lot of people were

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like, yeah, but the initials are cool and all

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that. I'm like, no, I'm good with this. I prefer

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this, you know. Yeah. And thanks for having me

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back on. It must be weird as well by going by

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before Christ Sanders before. Yeah. Yeah. A lot

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of people in the police world, a lot of departments,

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you kind of have to go by initials, your first

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two initials and your last name. And that can

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always like make for a very weird combination.

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But I mean, you know, when you when you go by

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your last name. um people on the street will

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just like constantly berate you if you've got

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a jacked up last name so i just you know i'm

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pretty fortunate it's innocuous it doesn't really

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stand out but i prefer to go by brian or as we

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say in the south brian Well, we spoke in February

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of 2022. So it's basically three years since

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you and I sat down. Obviously, a lot has happened

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between now and then. We were emerging from COVID.

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There was the whole defund movement. But more

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importantly, we'll start with this. You transitioned

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out of the law enforcement world. So let's begin

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with that. Walk me through your journey since

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our last conversation. What made you pull the

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trigger? And then as we know, the transition

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can be very jarring for some people. You have

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this tribe, you have this purpose, you have this

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identity. So walk me through why you chose to

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kind of close that chapter and how that experience

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was like for you. Yeah, I was fortunate. I retired.

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So there are a lot of people that transition

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out at that time with 10, 12, 15 years on the

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job. But like I said, I was fortunate. I retired.

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My plan was always. to be able to retire and

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enjoy life and do exactly what I wanna do. And

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a lot of people early on would tell me, hey,

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don't make this job your identity. And I'm like,

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okay, cool. Well, then I'm gonna actually go

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100 miles an hour and get full blown into gang

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work, homicide work, and make it the end all

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be all. So I lived and breathed it, I loved it,

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but also I could just turn it off. And a lot

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of that was growing up in a punk and skate scene.

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So I was into like punk and hardcore and, and

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it was always kind of questioning everything.

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So no matter what you do in life, ask yourself

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why, and are you, are you being, you know, used

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by corporations? Are you being used by the government?

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Like you always ask yourself all these things.

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So then going into police work, people would

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often say, Oh, you can't be a cop and punk rock.

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And you know, they kind of want to put you in

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all these little categories. And I'm going, ah,

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that's actually not what. what it's about. You

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know, it's actually about living life without

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any kind of set category. So I never really made

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police work necessarily my identity in the sense

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of when I was off duty, I wanted to be off duty.

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And some of the best compliments I would get

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is that people would, once they found out I was

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a detective or whatever at the time, you know,

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to be like, I didn't even know you were a cop.

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That's crazy. To me, that was a compliment because

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I didn't want to walk around. and have this impression

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of what a stereotypical cop was. And a lot of

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people know what that is. And sometimes that

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is the uptight person in the room who can't really

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relate to people or doesn't want to necessarily

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talk to people. Maybe they're a natural introvert.

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So I don't know. My thing was I wasn't going

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to make that my identity. And I always had hobbies

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and enjoyed my off time in that sense. So now

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in transition, My final year or two in the department

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was interesting because, like we had talked about,

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we were coming out of COVID at that time. But

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when that hit, when COVID hit, in the area I

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was in, there were massive restrictions, just

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like everywhere else. And it trickled through

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government. And it was, you will fall in line

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with these parameters or you can't put in for

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promotion. Or you can't even put in for a lateral

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transfer. So we had officers on a specialized

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unit, say canine or gang or SWAT or whatever,

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and they couldn't even do a lateral transfer

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to another unit, not even a pay grade promotion

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because they did not follow the guidelines and

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get vaccinated. It was very, just very strange

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to me when that was all going on. And I didn't,

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I didn't dig that at all. And I also think there

00:10:09.080 --> 00:10:11.519
were other things at play there and history will

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show us. how divisive things got and maybe why,

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why people were aligning themselves in different

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ways. But either way, I was a homicide lieutenant

00:10:23.129 --> 00:10:26.590
when I retired. And that was like the prime job

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that I had. I loved it. I had worked homicide

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throughout my career as a detective, then later

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as a sergeant. I'd worked intel as a sergeant,

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worked gang unit, patrol. uh, FBI task force.

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Like I, I did a lot of stuff in the gang work

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and homicide world for most of my career. So

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I really didn't want, um, there was no desire

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in me to keep going up the ladder. I just, I

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just wanted to be able to do what I did and kind

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of be left alone and take care of my people and

00:10:54.460 --> 00:10:57.399
let them solve crimes and, and move about it.

00:10:57.419 --> 00:11:00.500
So when I retired, I retired happy in shape.

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That's the other thing. So I always love like

00:11:02.600 --> 00:11:06.139
how you push. exercise, the importance of these

00:11:06.139 --> 00:11:10.139
things. And when I retired, I was in better shape

00:11:10.139 --> 00:11:13.080
than I was say 10 years before, you know, because

00:11:13.080 --> 00:11:14.879
I started making that a priority and started

00:11:14.879 --> 00:11:17.460
realizing, and this is for anybody listening

00:11:17.460 --> 00:11:20.840
in any kind of field where you're working very

00:11:20.840 --> 00:11:24.139
long shifts at night and you're eating junk food

00:11:24.139 --> 00:11:25.820
and we all fall in that habit and you don't get

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enough sleep. There were detectives that were

00:11:29.539 --> 00:11:32.159
retiring from where I worked and dying within

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a year, year and a half. And that's one of those

00:11:35.100 --> 00:11:37.899
things that people talk about and they say like,

00:11:37.960 --> 00:11:40.679
oh, you know, this study shows that I wasn't

00:11:40.679 --> 00:11:42.779
digging the studies. I was looking at real people.

00:11:43.100 --> 00:11:45.360
And that was a huge eye opener, too, for me to

00:11:45.360 --> 00:11:49.899
be like, you know, this this is a real thing.

00:11:50.419 --> 00:11:52.960
This is a small pool of people here in this city.

00:11:53.299 --> 00:11:55.559
And two people have already died within a year,

00:11:55.580 --> 00:11:58.580
year and a half of retiring. So I was I was pretty

00:11:58.580 --> 00:12:01.500
excited about retiring and retiring. in better

00:12:01.500 --> 00:12:04.299
health than I had, you know, years before. And

00:12:04.299 --> 00:12:06.500
I didn't have a gym membership, by the way. So

00:12:06.500 --> 00:12:11.179
I did everything in a driveway and with like

00:12:11.179 --> 00:12:13.759
maybe some $10 free weights that I bought at

00:12:13.759 --> 00:12:16.559
like Walmart or somewhere. It's always funny

00:12:16.559 --> 00:12:18.480
when people are like, oh, but the studies show.

00:12:18.600 --> 00:12:21.799
I'm like, let me stop you there. If you're a

00:12:21.799 --> 00:12:23.879
military member, even though not every single

00:12:23.879 --> 00:12:28.149
person is actually. participating in the VA system

00:12:28.149 --> 00:12:30.090
you have a pretty good understanding of what

00:12:30.090 --> 00:12:32.889
happens to our service people after they retire

00:12:32.889 --> 00:12:36.450
law enforcement fire doesn't have that so what

00:12:36.450 --> 00:12:39.710
exactly are you quoting the moment Brian or James

00:12:39.710 --> 00:12:42.809
walked out of the police or fire station no one

00:12:42.809 --> 00:12:45.340
gives a shit anymore you are done take your mental

00:12:45.340 --> 00:12:48.539
trauma take your physical trauma and off basically

00:12:48.539 --> 00:12:51.100
it is it is i mean that that term disposable

00:12:51.100 --> 00:12:53.820
heroes not that we call ourselves heroes but

00:12:53.820 --> 00:12:55.399
that's i've heard that from the military yeah

00:12:55.399 --> 00:12:58.200
it's it's true so when people like for example

00:12:58.200 --> 00:13:02.080
oh we had you know law enforcement had 102 suicides

00:13:02.080 --> 00:13:04.700
this year no you didn't that was just who was

00:13:04.700 --> 00:13:07.919
actually in duty whose family had actually said

00:13:07.919 --> 00:13:11.519
this is what happened But when do we normally,

00:13:11.720 --> 00:13:13.320
you know, when do these diseases and mental health

00:13:13.320 --> 00:13:15.440
problems really manifest? I was literally on

00:13:15.440 --> 00:13:18.120
the phone with one of my older firefighter colleagues

00:13:18.120 --> 00:13:21.240
just before we hit record. And he's struggling

00:13:21.240 --> 00:13:24.840
and he's out of any statistical data. So this

00:13:24.840 --> 00:13:27.299
is why I think it's so, we got to take a step

00:13:27.299 --> 00:13:30.059
back and go, what data are you talking about?

00:13:30.139 --> 00:13:33.639
If we don't count anyone who dies or gets sick

00:13:33.639 --> 00:13:36.899
the moment they retire, then what studies, you

00:13:36.899 --> 00:13:38.679
know, you're talking about when we're in uniform.

00:13:39.299 --> 00:13:41.440
That's the tip of the iceberg compared to what

00:13:41.440 --> 00:13:44.860
happens to most of our retirees. And that's a

00:13:44.860 --> 00:13:49.539
good point. And it is true. I knew this is a

00:13:49.539 --> 00:13:52.740
thing, too. I always listened to the senior people.

00:13:53.080 --> 00:13:56.059
So he's really squared away, you know, homicide

00:13:56.059 --> 00:13:58.419
detectives that I saw work these huge cases as

00:13:58.419 --> 00:14:00.620
I was coming up, you know, through different

00:14:00.620 --> 00:14:03.899
detective assignments or through different patrol

00:14:03.899 --> 00:14:06.879
assignments. But always I was like, OK, that's

00:14:06.879 --> 00:14:09.480
the pinnacle. Like this detective, this detective.

00:14:09.559 --> 00:14:12.620
So I would pick their brain. And that's a lot

00:14:12.620 --> 00:14:14.279
of times that's what they would talk about, too,

00:14:14.320 --> 00:14:16.820
is, hey, you know, my buddy retired three or

00:14:16.820 --> 00:14:19.200
four years ago. And guess what? Nobody cares.

00:14:19.399 --> 00:14:21.919
You know, you just start to lose touch because

00:14:21.919 --> 00:14:24.519
really what bonds everybody for the most part

00:14:24.519 --> 00:14:28.220
is the job, is the assignment. I didn't work

00:14:28.220 --> 00:14:31.360
with a whole lot of people that necessarily listen

00:14:31.360 --> 00:14:34.200
to the same kind of music I did or maybe cared

00:14:34.200 --> 00:14:37.169
much about reading books. you know, or even were

00:14:37.169 --> 00:14:39.230
from the South. I mean, as crazy as it sounds,

00:14:39.370 --> 00:14:41.950
I love hanging out with people, but there were

00:14:41.950 --> 00:14:44.090
a lot of people that would kind of want to just

00:14:44.090 --> 00:14:46.330
watch maybe a football game or, you know, do

00:14:46.330 --> 00:14:49.169
their own thing on their off time. So it's kind

00:14:49.169 --> 00:14:50.970
of like your bond is work. And then when you

00:14:50.970 --> 00:14:54.110
retire, maybe you keep in touch here and there,

00:14:54.250 --> 00:14:57.309
but for a lot of people, they don't keep in touch.

00:14:57.549 --> 00:14:59.850
And then you start to lose that connection. And

00:14:59.850 --> 00:15:02.230
I think that we are learning more and more now,

00:15:02.389 --> 00:15:05.639
understanding human connection. and probably

00:15:05.639 --> 00:15:08.320
coming out of COVID, people who would not have

00:15:08.320 --> 00:15:11.980
really listened to that point of view are now

00:15:11.980 --> 00:15:14.220
kind of realizing there is something to that.

00:15:14.279 --> 00:15:17.720
And I fully believe that. I do believe if you're

00:15:17.720 --> 00:15:20.019
not comfortable in your own skin, if you don't

00:15:20.019 --> 00:15:22.820
reflect on the things that make you happy and

00:15:22.820 --> 00:15:24.600
the things that you can do to make other people

00:15:24.600 --> 00:15:27.220
happy and you don't have that connection and

00:15:27.220 --> 00:15:30.279
you build your identity around, say, police work,

00:15:30.360 --> 00:15:33.120
when you retire and everybody forgets about you,

00:15:33.639 --> 00:15:37.639
It feels almost like a betrayal. So going into

00:15:37.639 --> 00:15:40.000
it, I already kind of knew like, ah, I'm going

00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:42.620
to miss a lot of people and laughing and joking

00:15:42.620 --> 00:15:45.120
and watching the work ethic they had or watching

00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:49.059
people figure out how to use certain technology

00:15:49.059 --> 00:15:51.860
in order to prove who killed somebody. I mean,

00:15:51.879 --> 00:15:56.159
it's incredible. But also in my retirement time,

00:15:56.220 --> 00:15:59.840
I speak to very few people that I worked with

00:15:59.840 --> 00:16:02.919
like on a daily basis. And I'm cool with that.

00:16:02.980 --> 00:16:05.799
I can run into somebody two, three years down

00:16:05.799 --> 00:16:08.179
the road, and you know I'm long -winded. I'll

00:16:08.179 --> 00:16:10.860
talk all day, and we'll catch up, and everything

00:16:10.860 --> 00:16:13.299
will be great. I don't take it personally. As

00:16:13.299 --> 00:16:15.320
well as when people retired, I didn't necessarily

00:16:15.320 --> 00:16:19.000
keep in touch with them either. So that is something

00:16:19.000 --> 00:16:22.159
that a lot of people don't bank on. Or if they

00:16:22.159 --> 00:16:24.840
leave the job early, so to speak, maybe they

00:16:24.840 --> 00:16:27.419
don't go their full retirement. Even when they

00:16:27.419 --> 00:16:30.580
leave after 10 or 12 years. They've still seen

00:16:30.580 --> 00:16:33.179
a lot of trauma in police work and fire, like

00:16:33.179 --> 00:16:35.519
you were mentioning earlier. And it's this idea

00:16:35.519 --> 00:16:38.080
of, okay, you may transition all the way out

00:16:38.080 --> 00:16:41.700
of, you know, firework or cop work, and then

00:16:41.700 --> 00:16:44.000
you're doing a completely different job and then

00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:45.860
something will trigger it or you'll hear a, you

00:16:45.860 --> 00:16:49.100
know, a engine or you'll smell smoke, you know,

00:16:49.100 --> 00:16:51.659
or gosh, like for you, me and everybody else,

00:16:51.679 --> 00:16:55.500
like smell what flesh smells like burning. And

00:16:55.500 --> 00:16:58.389
it immediately, it triggers something. I do think

00:16:58.389 --> 00:17:02.710
a lot of times if you can stay in the job longer

00:17:02.710 --> 00:17:06.910
than, you know, your first year or two, you learn

00:17:06.910 --> 00:17:09.369
to adapt and your brain does compartmentalize

00:17:09.369 --> 00:17:11.589
and you do push through all that stuff because

00:17:11.589 --> 00:17:14.529
you have to. That's what's needed for the job.

00:17:15.210 --> 00:17:16.970
And people used to tell me, they're like, it'll

00:17:16.970 --> 00:17:18.789
come out one way or another will come out. And

00:17:18.789 --> 00:17:21.630
I'm like, yeah, okay. But I'm in control of my

00:17:21.630 --> 00:17:23.869
brain. I'm in control of my body. I got, I understand

00:17:23.869 --> 00:17:26.779
all that and I'll process it. and it does it

00:17:26.779 --> 00:17:30.099
comes out and that's one of the things that that

00:17:30.099 --> 00:17:33.160
i do like what's going on moving forward this

00:17:33.160 --> 00:17:37.259
trend of people acknowledging it understanding

00:17:37.259 --> 00:17:40.079
that you have to deal with it one way or another

00:17:40.079 --> 00:17:42.119
and whatever that is can be different for a lot

00:17:42.119 --> 00:17:46.720
of people but it's this idea of you compartmentalize

00:17:46.720 --> 00:17:51.960
the day of but at some point before it manifests

00:17:51.960 --> 00:17:54.720
in different ways address it kind of like you

00:17:54.720 --> 00:17:59.000
know Think about it or reflect on it when you're

00:17:59.000 --> 00:18:03.720
in that positive mind state or like for me, exercising

00:18:03.720 --> 00:18:07.140
sometimes because I like to exercise a lot of

00:18:07.140 --> 00:18:10.160
times by myself. At least I did, you know, a

00:18:10.160 --> 00:18:13.000
couple of years ago. And it's this idea of just

00:18:13.000 --> 00:18:15.079
reflecting on stuff like that when you can, not

00:18:15.079 --> 00:18:18.299
when it hits you out of nowhere. You know, like

00:18:18.299 --> 00:18:21.079
when maybe you're driving or something like that,

00:18:21.099 --> 00:18:25.119
or like I said, you smell. fire burning or something

00:18:25.119 --> 00:18:27.380
like that and then it triggers an incident i

00:18:27.380 --> 00:18:30.500
don't know that to me that is how i've tried

00:18:30.500 --> 00:18:33.119
to deal with a lot of a lot of the stuff that

00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:36.460
i've seen it's interesting i just started watching

00:18:36.460 --> 00:18:41.359
a show called the pit and it's on hbo max and

00:18:41.359 --> 00:18:43.140
i saw i think one of my guests talked about it

00:18:43.140 --> 00:18:45.700
and then alex jaber who's a paramedic she's done

00:18:45.700 --> 00:18:48.059
a lot of great work with moral injury and death

00:18:48.059 --> 00:18:50.700
notification and you know how we deal with that

00:18:50.700 --> 00:18:55.940
the finality of a call And she did posted a scene

00:18:55.940 --> 00:18:58.160
from it and then did this talk and then actually

00:18:58.160 --> 00:19:02.680
talked about the kind of responses they got on

00:19:02.680 --> 00:19:05.380
Facebook. But watching the show and I'm just

00:19:05.380 --> 00:19:08.319
one episode in and it's I think each episode

00:19:08.319 --> 00:19:10.720
is an hour in the ER, you know, and obviously

00:19:10.720 --> 00:19:13.809
it would be a. pretty damn busy day if it actually

00:19:13.809 --> 00:19:16.150
unfolded like this but it shows the chaos it

00:19:16.150 --> 00:19:19.089
shows the overflowing waiting rooms and the people

00:19:19.089 --> 00:19:20.890
occupying beds and the fact that they're going

00:19:20.890 --> 00:19:23.329
to be there for hours and hours and hours and

00:19:23.329 --> 00:19:25.490
these doctors that are you know going patient

00:19:25.490 --> 00:19:27.609
to patient while they're mentoring students and

00:19:27.609 --> 00:19:30.650
then between the more mundane calls the critical

00:19:30.650 --> 00:19:33.549
call comes in and i started welling up watching

00:19:33.549 --> 00:19:35.450
and i'm like what is wrong with me and i think

00:19:35.869 --> 00:19:37.410
And again, there's nothing we always say that

00:19:37.410 --> 00:19:38.910
there's nothing wrong with you, James. This is

00:19:38.910 --> 00:19:41.250
an emotion coming out because you were in this

00:19:41.250 --> 00:19:45.230
world for 14 years. But it was I think one of

00:19:45.230 --> 00:19:49.170
the biggest things is here in 2025, it's exactly

00:19:49.170 --> 00:19:51.670
the same. And I was talking to this about about

00:19:51.670 --> 00:19:54.730
this with a guest. We are completely reactive.

00:19:54.930 --> 00:19:57.309
I think your profession is more proactive. You're

00:19:57.309 --> 00:20:00.349
you're in some. branches of law enforcement you're

00:20:00.349 --> 00:20:02.490
able to stop catastrophes before they happen

00:20:02.490 --> 00:20:04.930
in fire they call us when it's already happened

00:20:04.930 --> 00:20:06.730
apart from like fire prevention that's about

00:20:06.730 --> 00:20:10.789
it so we have so that revolving door of death

00:20:10.789 --> 00:20:13.930
and trauma never fucking ends and i was just

00:20:13.930 --> 00:20:16.490
before we hit record i was mowing like well i'm

00:20:16.490 --> 00:20:18.329
even mowing like getting the leaves off my grass

00:20:18.329 --> 00:20:20.569
and picking up dog shit in the back and i was

00:20:20.569 --> 00:20:23.450
like this is the perfect analogy the way we've

00:20:23.450 --> 00:20:25.769
done a lot of this in in medicine in america

00:20:25.769 --> 00:20:30.400
especially is like grass in someone's home. You

00:20:30.400 --> 00:20:32.579
cut the grass, it looks beautiful. Next week,

00:20:32.599 --> 00:20:34.180
you need to cut the grass again. You cut the

00:20:34.180 --> 00:20:35.900
grass, it looks beautiful. Next week, you have

00:20:35.900 --> 00:20:38.440
to cut the grass. It's an, and not that you would

00:20:38.440 --> 00:20:40.279
like kill the grass would be the answer, but

00:20:40.279 --> 00:20:42.900
that's the kind of, you know, there's no mission.

00:20:43.079 --> 00:20:45.240
There's no, how are we going to make this less?

00:20:45.359 --> 00:20:47.900
How are we going to improve this? And so I think

00:20:47.900 --> 00:20:50.339
that was what this, I'm rambling, I apologize,

00:20:50.420 --> 00:20:53.500
but that was what this emotion came from is I've

00:20:53.500 --> 00:20:55.400
been out of the profession for six years now.

00:20:56.009 --> 00:20:59.269
And here we are, like nothing has changed. And

00:20:59.269 --> 00:21:01.690
I think that was it. The suffering keeps happening.

00:21:01.829 --> 00:21:04.009
The accidents on the road keep happening. 40

00:21:04.009 --> 00:21:07.430
,000 people die every fucking year. The gangs,

00:21:07.450 --> 00:21:10.710
the murders. And I think that when you're a first

00:21:10.710 --> 00:21:13.950
responder, at what point do you say, when are

00:21:13.950 --> 00:21:15.509
we going to turn a corner? When are we going

00:21:15.509 --> 00:21:17.670
to actually make this better rather than simply

00:21:17.670 --> 00:21:21.450
respond when the radio goes off? So the perfect

00:21:21.450 --> 00:21:26.140
thing about doing the work that I did is that

00:21:26.140 --> 00:21:29.279
when I was on proactive assignments, like an

00:21:29.279 --> 00:21:32.759
FBI task force or gang suppression unit, which

00:21:32.759 --> 00:21:35.500
was more like street level, you could see the

00:21:35.500 --> 00:21:40.380
problem and you had full reign, like upper command,

00:21:40.660 --> 00:21:44.400
sort of. It took us a little while to convince

00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:48.920
them, hey, this gang issue is the number one

00:21:48.920 --> 00:21:51.319
drive in violence. And this was for years where

00:21:51.319 --> 00:21:55.259
I worked. I was in a large... city department

00:21:55.259 --> 00:21:58.319
in the South. So people don't think about gangs

00:21:58.319 --> 00:22:00.539
and you and I've talked about it before, but

00:22:00.539 --> 00:22:03.500
gangs are in all major cities. And throughout

00:22:03.500 --> 00:22:05.319
the South, we've been dealing with it for about

00:22:05.319 --> 00:22:09.000
25 years now on very, on very high levels in

00:22:09.000 --> 00:22:11.799
the sense of a lot of murders and shootings occur

00:22:11.799 --> 00:22:15.059
linked to Bloods, Crips, Serenios, Norteños,

00:22:15.299 --> 00:22:18.119
Latin Kings, Gangster Disciples, right? Vice

00:22:18.119 --> 00:22:21.619
Lords. And we're getting gangs from Chicago,

00:22:22.019 --> 00:22:25.670
California. And New York, like branches of those

00:22:25.670 --> 00:22:28.170
gangs have formed in New York and come down.

00:22:28.250 --> 00:22:32.789
So one of the best things about the job is when

00:22:32.789 --> 00:22:36.329
I was given freedom to do what we did best, which

00:22:36.329 --> 00:22:39.690
was to solve problems. And so at one point it

00:22:39.690 --> 00:22:42.109
was a drug corner. So it was one little bitty

00:22:42.109 --> 00:22:46.250
corner across from a middle school. And you're

00:22:46.250 --> 00:22:49.180
talking about one city block. And in the South,

00:22:49.259 --> 00:22:51.420
the cities are big, but nothing like New York

00:22:51.420 --> 00:22:52.900
or Chicago or anything. We're just talking about

00:22:52.900 --> 00:22:56.460
a small city block. And on one of those, we had

00:22:56.460 --> 00:22:58.980
three murders inside of about four or five months,

00:22:59.119 --> 00:23:02.220
multiple shootings, like shootings. Nobody seems

00:23:02.220 --> 00:23:04.420
to really keep track of. I mean, we do, but,

00:23:04.440 --> 00:23:07.259
you know, it's what makes the news. The homicides

00:23:07.259 --> 00:23:09.640
make the news. Hey, what are y 'all going to

00:23:09.640 --> 00:23:12.779
do to stop it? That's the best part about it.

00:23:13.210 --> 00:23:15.230
Is that we know where the origin of the problem

00:23:15.230 --> 00:23:17.970
is. It's the 20 dudes that took over this corner

00:23:17.970 --> 00:23:21.410
and are selling every day within a thousand feet

00:23:21.410 --> 00:23:23.710
of a school. Oh, and by the way, that's a felony.

00:23:23.970 --> 00:23:26.990
So every time they make a drug sale within a

00:23:26.990 --> 00:23:28.710
thousand feet of a school, that's a felony. The

00:23:28.710 --> 00:23:31.250
actual drug sales, the felony. If we can stop

00:23:31.250 --> 00:23:33.509
them and recover it packaged on them, that's

00:23:33.509 --> 00:23:36.130
another felony. And so what we were starting

00:23:36.130 --> 00:23:39.470
to do is go, OK, instead of running in and just

00:23:39.470 --> 00:23:42.599
making one quick arrest. And having that cycle,

00:23:42.619 --> 00:23:43.960
like you're talking about, you're doing the same

00:23:43.960 --> 00:23:47.140
thing over and over and over. Let's set up a

00:23:47.140 --> 00:23:50.700
really good surveillance. Let's record it. Let's

00:23:50.700 --> 00:23:53.200
know everybody's government name so that when

00:23:53.200 --> 00:23:55.700
we see them, we can positively identify them.

00:23:55.740 --> 00:23:58.160
We have actual encounters with them. We document

00:23:58.160 --> 00:24:00.319
their tattoos so we can prove they are who they

00:24:00.319 --> 00:24:03.339
are. And then we watch them and we watch their

00:24:03.339 --> 00:24:05.660
patterns of behavior. And we started figuring

00:24:05.660 --> 00:24:07.799
out what times they sold and when they were the

00:24:07.799 --> 00:24:10.839
most operational. And so that may have taken

00:24:10.839 --> 00:24:13.900
a week or two of no actual arrests. And so upper

00:24:13.900 --> 00:24:16.140
command, some of them were getting very nervous,

00:24:16.180 --> 00:24:17.599
like, oh, you know, you got to produce, you got

00:24:17.599 --> 00:24:20.460
to make numbers. And we're like, just we're going

00:24:20.460 --> 00:24:22.799
to make the violence, a lot of it go away. Just

00:24:22.799 --> 00:24:26.180
let's do what we do. So we would let and watch

00:24:26.180 --> 00:24:30.299
this crew. And at the time they were a blood

00:24:30.299 --> 00:24:33.720
set, right? And so we would watch them and they

00:24:33.720 --> 00:24:35.960
were highly organized. They're making their sales.

00:24:36.490 --> 00:24:38.549
And then what we would do is after about four

00:24:38.549 --> 00:24:40.890
or five hours of them selling and us stopping

00:24:40.890 --> 00:24:43.150
the customers and recovering and proving they

00:24:43.150 --> 00:24:45.789
just sold drugs, recovering the drugs, we're

00:24:45.789 --> 00:24:49.349
documenting sometimes 20 to 25 felonies being,

00:24:49.410 --> 00:24:51.829
you know, occurring within that like six hour

00:24:51.829 --> 00:24:54.430
period. Then going in, stopping them, making

00:24:54.430 --> 00:24:57.250
the arrest, coming back and then debriefing them

00:24:57.250 --> 00:25:01.490
and explaining to them, you have caused a lot

00:25:01.490 --> 00:25:03.589
of problems. The violence is going to go away.

00:25:04.250 --> 00:25:08.130
And at the at the end of the coming months, no

00:25:08.130 --> 00:25:10.809
one is going to be on this block. Everybody is

00:25:10.809 --> 00:25:12.670
going to be done as long as you keep doing what

00:25:12.670 --> 00:25:14.269
you're doing, because we could get them off the

00:25:14.269 --> 00:25:17.269
block. We can stop the shootings. Well, guess

00:25:17.269 --> 00:25:20.029
what? Nobody does that. They don't believe us

00:25:20.029 --> 00:25:21.609
and they keep doing it over and over and over.

00:25:21.930 --> 00:25:24.650
And what we did is we just it was like applying

00:25:24.650 --> 00:25:26.750
direct pressure on a wound. It's like, OK, here

00:25:26.750 --> 00:25:30.589
we go. Arrest after arrest after arrest until

00:25:30.589 --> 00:25:33.490
eventually and you give everybody that same sales

00:25:33.490 --> 00:25:36.109
pitch. So eventually towards the last few on

00:25:36.109 --> 00:25:38.549
the block, you're like, I don't know what else

00:25:38.549 --> 00:25:41.690
to tell you. We've actually done everything to

00:25:41.690 --> 00:25:44.329
prevent you from doing this. We told you what

00:25:44.329 --> 00:25:46.410
our plays were, and you still went down this

00:25:46.410 --> 00:25:49.230
path. And there's a lot more to it. But that

00:25:49.230 --> 00:25:52.130
was some of the best feeling that I ever had

00:25:52.130 --> 00:25:54.529
and some of my teammates because we were patrol

00:25:54.529 --> 00:25:58.069
officers, but we were given the freedom to solve

00:25:58.069 --> 00:25:59.690
that problem, and we did it. And there's some

00:25:59.690 --> 00:26:01.250
more techniques I don't really want to get into

00:26:01.250 --> 00:26:04.140
and bore you. That when you can control that,

00:26:04.160 --> 00:26:08.700
like you said, our ability to help solve homicides

00:26:08.700 --> 00:26:12.259
and actually stop the guys from shooting one

00:26:12.259 --> 00:26:15.279
another, it felt great. So then when the violence

00:26:15.279 --> 00:26:18.640
went down dramatically, we could then say, hey,

00:26:18.660 --> 00:26:21.119
this works. Let's replicate it in this part of

00:26:21.119 --> 00:26:23.559
the city, in this part, in this part. And so

00:26:23.559 --> 00:26:25.880
that's all we started doing is just hammering

00:26:25.880 --> 00:26:29.759
these areas that they operated. So when the violence

00:26:29.759 --> 00:26:32.900
decreased. I actually felt better. I felt like,

00:26:32.920 --> 00:26:36.720
hey, we're doing something that matters. So flash

00:26:36.720 --> 00:26:39.720
forward a few years later and I'm a homicide

00:26:39.720 --> 00:26:42.819
detective and I'm responding to homicides and

00:26:42.819 --> 00:26:45.759
I'm going, man, this is the exact same crew or

00:26:45.759 --> 00:26:49.000
at least the exact same set of Bloods or Crips

00:26:49.000 --> 00:26:52.119
or Orphans 13 or fill in the blank, whatever

00:26:52.119 --> 00:26:55.039
gang. Like, man, we hammered them years ago.

00:26:55.640 --> 00:26:58.180
What happened? Why are we back in this cycle

00:26:58.180 --> 00:27:00.660
again? And that's where you start to learn and

00:27:00.660 --> 00:27:03.859
look at a lot of departments, a lot of approaches

00:27:03.859 --> 00:27:07.400
went away from being proactive. And so that I'll

00:27:07.400 --> 00:27:11.480
say moving forward, if departments focus on mental

00:27:11.480 --> 00:27:14.599
health for their officers, exercise, all those

00:27:14.599 --> 00:27:17.160
things, look at their shifts, like what hours

00:27:17.160 --> 00:27:19.759
they're working and solve that problem. Don't

00:27:19.759 --> 00:27:21.839
just say we've always done 12 hour shifts. We're

00:27:21.839 --> 00:27:24.619
short staff. That's what we got to do. And then

00:27:24.619 --> 00:27:27.960
allow proactive units to address the violence.

00:27:28.599 --> 00:27:31.880
It's an incredible feeling like I did not feel

00:27:31.880 --> 00:27:35.759
like I wasted my entire career because of the

00:27:35.759 --> 00:27:37.680
things that we did in the units that I was on.

00:27:38.200 --> 00:27:40.460
Those things actually worked. And so I teach

00:27:40.460 --> 00:27:43.619
them now and replicate them in other agencies

00:27:43.619 --> 00:27:45.579
and stuff. When people take my classes like this

00:27:45.579 --> 00:27:49.259
idea of here's the issue, here's how we address

00:27:49.259 --> 00:27:51.539
it. Now, in the fire world, like you're saying,

00:27:51.720 --> 00:27:54.419
it's got to be a horrible feeling. responding

00:27:54.419 --> 00:27:56.480
to that. And you're like, man, this could have

00:27:56.480 --> 00:27:58.819
been prevented if they would have done this different.

00:27:59.359 --> 00:28:04.119
Like you're saying, you're in reactive mode and

00:28:04.119 --> 00:28:07.579
the police departments can be in a proactive

00:28:07.579 --> 00:28:09.819
mode. They have not been in the last four or

00:28:09.819 --> 00:28:11.859
five years. That's the sad thing. Everything

00:28:11.859 --> 00:28:14.500
went reactive, which is why all the violence

00:28:14.500 --> 00:28:16.579
started to escalate in all these major cities.

00:28:17.079 --> 00:28:19.480
But guess what? In the next four to six years,

00:28:19.740 --> 00:28:22.549
crime fighting is going to be back. proactive

00:28:22.549 --> 00:28:25.009
units are going to be back. And I hope for a

00:28:25.009 --> 00:28:27.750
lot of departments, pay is better and that they

00:28:27.750 --> 00:28:31.509
actually push the investment that the officer

00:28:31.509 --> 00:28:34.829
is, that they're not just an employee. It's like,

00:28:34.930 --> 00:28:39.150
hey, we're investing in you because you're helping

00:28:39.150 --> 00:28:41.690
save the city or suburbs or county, wherever

00:28:41.690 --> 00:28:46.710
it is. There are people who... do keynote speeches

00:28:46.710 --> 00:28:49.309
in the fire service that thump on the lectern

00:28:49.309 --> 00:28:51.569
and say, you got to be into the job. And I always

00:28:51.569 --> 00:28:53.009
kind of laughed at that because we were sitting

00:28:53.009 --> 00:28:55.109
in a fire conference. Those people already are

00:28:55.109 --> 00:29:00.230
into the job. But that aside, what I think that

00:29:00.230 --> 00:29:02.309
where we're at now is that the job's got to be

00:29:02.309 --> 00:29:05.809
into us too. You know, there's always this, you

00:29:05.809 --> 00:29:07.869
need to be a better firefighter cop. You need

00:29:07.869 --> 00:29:09.690
to do jujitsu. You need to be fit. You need to,

00:29:09.690 --> 00:29:12.210
you know, all the things, negotiation techniques,

00:29:12.390 --> 00:29:15.160
whatever it is. But yeah, I mean, we've got the

00:29:15.160 --> 00:29:16.920
point now where we've been asked, even when you

00:29:16.920 --> 00:29:19.000
talk about sleep, oh, when they go home, they've

00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:20.980
got to go to bed early and put water on timeout.

00:29:21.279 --> 00:29:23.980
What about giving them more time to go home?

00:29:24.059 --> 00:29:26.640
Where's that conversation? So I think this is

00:29:26.640 --> 00:29:28.779
a great opportunity now for exactly what you

00:29:28.779 --> 00:29:31.380
said, for us to look and say, hey, certainly

00:29:31.380 --> 00:29:34.119
when the bar was held high and people were, you

00:29:34.119 --> 00:29:35.940
know, it was very competitive in law enforcement

00:29:35.940 --> 00:29:38.059
and fire. The people that you've got in your

00:29:38.059 --> 00:29:41.960
ranks, they're into the job. You know that they

00:29:41.960 --> 00:29:45.160
fall very hard to get that position. So now it's

00:29:45.160 --> 00:29:48.440
your turn to be into your population, into your

00:29:48.440 --> 00:29:51.460
people and provide an environment not only for

00:29:51.460 --> 00:29:54.000
them to thrive, but to also create that line

00:29:54.000 --> 00:29:56.920
once again. So you're taking from the very best

00:29:56.920 --> 00:29:59.900
and not scraping the bottom of the barrel. Yeah.

00:30:00.059 --> 00:30:03.940
And a perfect example of that is like when you

00:30:03.940 --> 00:30:07.099
mentioned sleep, one of the worst aspects that

00:30:07.099 --> 00:30:10.509
I saw. On every level, I were at every rank in

00:30:10.509 --> 00:30:14.789
homicide was sleep deprivation and just going

00:30:14.789 --> 00:30:17.009
and going and going. You have to do it like I

00:30:17.009 --> 00:30:20.930
don't advocate breaking, you know, only doing

00:30:20.930 --> 00:30:23.250
eight hours when when the body hits the ground

00:30:23.250 --> 00:30:26.069
and you start running with it. You work until

00:30:26.069 --> 00:30:29.309
you've exhausted all those leads or until you

00:30:29.309 --> 00:30:32.349
all have hit a wall where people are actually

00:30:32.349 --> 00:30:35.220
falling asleep, you know. And that can occur.

00:30:35.359 --> 00:30:37.000
Usually as a good leader, you kind of pick up

00:30:37.000 --> 00:30:39.539
on that and go, okay, hey, we got a lot of leads.

00:30:39.599 --> 00:30:41.660
We're working. We're going to break, get a couple

00:30:41.660 --> 00:30:44.799
hours of sleep, come back and keep going. Now,

00:30:44.819 --> 00:30:46.880
one of the things that I used to get really mad

00:30:46.880 --> 00:30:49.859
about, I was fortunate. I had like a really squared

00:30:49.859 --> 00:30:52.559
away captain when I was a lieutenant. And when

00:30:52.559 --> 00:30:54.119
I was a sergeant, I had a really great lieutenant.

00:30:54.299 --> 00:30:57.059
So I was fortunate when I was in those assignments

00:30:57.059 --> 00:31:00.859
working homicide that we were looking at, hey,

00:31:00.960 --> 00:31:05.430
the sleep thing is a huge issue. So in my background,

00:31:05.450 --> 00:31:07.730
when I was in college, after Army, I went to

00:31:07.730 --> 00:31:10.829
college, but I worked for UPS, United Parcel

00:31:10.829 --> 00:31:12.930
Service, when I was in college. Incredible job.

00:31:13.109 --> 00:31:15.569
And I'm going to come back to leadership and

00:31:15.569 --> 00:31:20.210
UPS. But the sleep thing, we were all talking.

00:31:20.250 --> 00:31:23.769
We're like, OK, we have our own, our office.

00:31:24.190 --> 00:31:28.549
There's two full homicide unit or teams only

00:31:28.549 --> 00:31:31.799
units. You have this big office space. And they

00:31:31.799 --> 00:31:33.839
work independently. These teams are operating

00:31:33.839 --> 00:31:36.559
independently, multiple people in a room. So

00:31:36.559 --> 00:31:40.079
it's like, we can just cordon off a section or

00:31:40.079 --> 00:31:42.619
find a different location in the division, put

00:31:42.619 --> 00:31:46.299
in some cots and it's secured. And guess what?

00:31:46.440 --> 00:31:48.960
Like, like right now I got three people running

00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:51.539
phones. I got two that are tracking down, you

00:31:51.539 --> 00:31:54.220
know, gang members. You go ahead, hit the cot,

00:31:54.319 --> 00:31:56.400
get you a couple hours of sleep. Like rotate,

00:31:56.440 --> 00:31:58.779
you know, like we need to be able to solve this

00:31:58.779 --> 00:32:02.819
problem. What we ran into, was that somebody

00:32:02.819 --> 00:32:06.359
in our department years before who wasn't anywhere

00:32:06.359 --> 00:32:08.500
in our detective division they were like a patrol

00:32:08.500 --> 00:32:12.619
captain or something got jammed up because they

00:32:12.619 --> 00:32:14.900
were not they didn't the way the rumors went

00:32:14.900 --> 00:32:18.539
were that this person did not actually stay at

00:32:18.539 --> 00:32:21.740
home in an apartment or trailer house like they

00:32:21.740 --> 00:32:24.900
were using their own office as their house so

00:32:24.900 --> 00:32:27.440
they were sleeping in their office after work

00:32:27.440 --> 00:32:29.640
and waking up showering in the locker rooms and

00:32:29.640 --> 00:32:32.250
stuff and then going to work when the person

00:32:32.250 --> 00:32:35.210
got caught they got reprimanded but then there

00:32:35.210 --> 00:32:37.130
was a policy written that you couldn't sleep

00:32:37.130 --> 00:32:41.269
on duty at all and so instead of just putting

00:32:41.269 --> 00:32:43.789
a little addendum in that policy and saying this

00:32:43.789 --> 00:32:47.970
excludes whatever homicide unit and let us you

00:32:47.970 --> 00:32:51.430
know manage our own people um it was just across

00:32:51.430 --> 00:32:53.289
the board hey you can't sleep in the office you

00:32:53.289 --> 00:32:55.130
can't sleep anywhere in any of these divisions

00:32:55.130 --> 00:32:58.150
so technically you have to release everybody

00:32:58.150 --> 00:33:02.089
to go to their residence sleep, and then come

00:33:02.089 --> 00:33:04.150
back. And sometimes you're only breaking for

00:33:04.150 --> 00:33:06.549
three or four hours because you've got to keep

00:33:06.549 --> 00:33:09.049
going. You're trying to actually catch somebody

00:33:09.049 --> 00:33:11.430
that potentially is going to kill somebody else

00:33:11.430 --> 00:33:15.690
or stop gang versus gang violence. Anyway, the

00:33:15.690 --> 00:33:19.769
whole point of the story is use common sense

00:33:19.769 --> 00:33:23.269
in a department and allow officers and detectives

00:33:23.269 --> 00:33:25.230
like that to solve the problem. We could have

00:33:25.230 --> 00:33:27.470
solved it very quickly and very easily. We would

00:33:27.470 --> 00:33:30.380
have actually, as leaders, bought the cots. an

00:33:30.380 --> 00:33:32.220
inflatable mattress and stuff out of our own

00:33:32.220 --> 00:33:34.160
pocket. I don't even expect the city to pay that.

00:33:34.700 --> 00:33:37.059
Just change that policy so they don't get jammed

00:33:37.059 --> 00:33:40.480
up. Because at the end of the day, you're getting

00:33:40.480 --> 00:33:44.720
more work out of the person, but at a safer rate.

00:33:44.819 --> 00:33:47.640
And you're actually, you care enough about their

00:33:47.640 --> 00:33:50.819
sleep. And I knew that because I had been a detective

00:33:50.819 --> 00:33:54.519
working homicides as well as aggravated assaults.

00:33:54.519 --> 00:33:56.400
So before I even went to that, to a homicide

00:33:56.400 --> 00:33:59.599
unit. I was on a unit that just worked shootings

00:33:59.599 --> 00:34:03.099
and aggravated assaults. And the only difference

00:34:03.099 --> 00:34:05.740
is the person survives. But we were still getting

00:34:05.740 --> 00:34:08.780
called back in. I think the longest stretch I

00:34:08.780 --> 00:34:11.820
worked was 14 days straight when these multiple

00:34:11.820 --> 00:34:15.139
serenio clicks were going to war. And it was

00:34:15.139 --> 00:34:17.559
just like, man, I can barely keep my eyes open.

00:34:17.659 --> 00:34:21.320
This is ridiculous. But nobody else was working

00:34:21.320 --> 00:34:23.900
it. So you have to kind of push through. But

00:34:23.900 --> 00:34:27.250
nobody was trying to solve. How do we get sleep?

00:34:27.369 --> 00:34:29.269
Like, if you would have just let me sleep in

00:34:29.269 --> 00:34:32.610
the station for a couple of hours, I would have

00:34:32.610 --> 00:34:34.469
just gone and gone and gone. You know, I mean,

00:34:34.489 --> 00:34:36.730
I was good with that. Now, switching back to

00:34:36.730 --> 00:34:40.630
leadership, when you were talking about, you

00:34:40.630 --> 00:34:42.309
know, at the conference, they're saying you got

00:34:42.309 --> 00:34:45.090
to be into the job. Same thing to police work.

00:34:45.150 --> 00:34:46.809
It's like, oh, you got to eat, breathe and sleep

00:34:46.809 --> 00:34:50.130
this week. Expect 100 percent commitment. And

00:34:50.130 --> 00:34:53.389
it's like, cool. As a patrol officer or a detective.

00:34:54.059 --> 00:34:57.659
You also expect that kind of zeal and motivation

00:34:57.659 --> 00:35:00.639
from leadership. And if leadership's not trying

00:35:00.639 --> 00:35:03.000
to solve the problem, then what's the point?

00:35:03.179 --> 00:35:06.699
So when I was at UPS, one of the great things

00:35:06.699 --> 00:35:10.000
that I had a guy talk about, he said, man, you

00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:14.199
look at it this way. Here's your upper echelon

00:35:14.199 --> 00:35:18.539
supervisor, and then they're in charge of. This

00:35:18.539 --> 00:35:20.900
pyramid, you know, mid -level management and

00:35:20.900 --> 00:35:23.219
then below, you know, the lower ranking management

00:35:23.219 --> 00:35:25.880
and then all the subordinates. And he had flipped

00:35:25.880 --> 00:35:29.239
the diagram upside down. And he's like, you know,

00:35:29.239 --> 00:35:32.079
traditionally everybody works for this, you know,

00:35:32.099 --> 00:35:34.400
regional manager where he's like really good

00:35:34.400 --> 00:35:36.739
leaders. He flipped it upside down. He's like,

00:35:36.840 --> 00:35:39.780
the regional manager is working for everybody,

00:35:39.980 --> 00:35:42.760
you know, in this pyramid. Like their sole purpose

00:35:42.760 --> 00:35:47.079
is to solve problems and meet the needs of the

00:35:47.079 --> 00:35:50.489
subordinates. And I did see in the police world,

00:35:50.570 --> 00:35:54.010
there were times where not always in my chain

00:35:54.010 --> 00:35:57.070
of command, but within the department, very weak

00:35:57.070 --> 00:35:59.969
leaders. And they did not have a crime fighting

00:35:59.969 --> 00:36:02.570
background. They never really worked proactive

00:36:02.570 --> 00:36:06.210
assignments. They kind of skated along with these

00:36:06.210 --> 00:36:09.889
cush jobs after they do a year or two on patrol.

00:36:10.429 --> 00:36:13.469
And then as they got promoted up. They believed

00:36:13.469 --> 00:36:16.250
that by making sergeant or lieutenant or captain,

00:36:16.389 --> 00:36:18.889
they were somehow better and smarter than everybody.

00:36:19.309 --> 00:36:21.389
And they stopped listening to their people and

00:36:21.389 --> 00:36:23.730
they stopped caring enough about them. And it

00:36:23.730 --> 00:36:27.070
was almost like seeing a selfish parent that

00:36:27.070 --> 00:36:29.750
doesn't take care of their kids. And they just

00:36:29.750 --> 00:36:31.369
kind of sit back and say, yeah, well, I already

00:36:31.369 --> 00:36:34.230
know this. And I don't really care about what

00:36:34.230 --> 00:36:37.010
you got going on, kid. It's kind of the same

00:36:37.010 --> 00:36:41.840
way, sadly. I've seen some of those people even

00:36:41.840 --> 00:36:45.719
get in higher positions and sit at meetings and

00:36:45.719 --> 00:36:49.539
make horrible decisions, even when they were

00:36:49.539 --> 00:36:53.340
told by other people, hey, this is not a good

00:36:53.340 --> 00:36:56.659
idea. Let's not take this course of action. And

00:36:56.659 --> 00:36:59.340
they disregarded it and made some really stupid

00:36:59.340 --> 00:37:02.119
choices. I hope that a lot of that's changing.

00:37:02.199 --> 00:37:06.280
I do hope that with the limited amount of people

00:37:06.280 --> 00:37:10.039
that want to do the job. that maybe some departments

00:37:10.039 --> 00:37:13.940
are realizing you can still serve the public

00:37:13.940 --> 00:37:16.400
and you can still be really, really good and

00:37:16.400 --> 00:37:19.519
drive your violent crime down if you put the

00:37:19.519 --> 00:37:22.340
emphasis on being proactive, if you really stay

00:37:22.340 --> 00:37:24.619
selective on your candidates. Don't change your

00:37:24.619 --> 00:37:28.219
standards. Don't drop them. You know, when you

00:37:28.219 --> 00:37:31.019
drop those standards, you start to get the scrubs

00:37:31.019 --> 00:37:34.059
coming in, and then that's going to be your liability.

00:37:34.139 --> 00:37:36.239
Now you're going to get more lawsuits filed.

00:37:37.900 --> 00:37:41.139
They didn't make the cut several years ago. Don't

00:37:41.139 --> 00:37:44.619
let them make the cut now. Just start to be smarter

00:37:44.619 --> 00:37:49.579
about how you manage your people. So one of the

00:37:49.579 --> 00:37:52.860
greatest solutions I heard a guy say, and he

00:37:52.860 --> 00:37:55.119
was like, I don't understand why we have to have

00:37:55.119 --> 00:37:57.820
the exact same number of officers on a 24 -hour

00:37:57.820 --> 00:38:02.880
cycle when over the last 10 years, we know from

00:38:02.880 --> 00:38:06.920
like 4 p .m. to 7 p .m. our call volume on patrol

00:38:06.920 --> 00:38:10.500
triples. And what do we do? Well, for 10 years

00:38:10.500 --> 00:38:12.519
or however long, you know, we've done 12 -hour

00:38:12.519 --> 00:38:16.019
shifts and our shift change is at 6 p .m. and

00:38:16.019 --> 00:38:19.179
7 p .m. Like, why are we doing that? And his

00:38:19.179 --> 00:38:24.980
logic was have these variable shifts that some

00:38:24.980 --> 00:38:27.260
people come in and that's all they work is like

00:38:27.260 --> 00:38:29.099
an eight -hour shift, but it's like at the peak

00:38:29.099 --> 00:38:32.940
call volume. And so therefore, when it's a Tuesday

00:38:32.940 --> 00:38:35.789
morning at 4 a .m., You can get away with a skeleton

00:38:35.789 --> 00:38:38.389
crew because historically you haven't had the

00:38:38.389 --> 00:38:42.190
call volume to need, you know, 20 officers work

00:38:42.190 --> 00:38:44.809
in a district or an area or whatever. But guess

00:38:44.809 --> 00:38:46.789
what? Nobody really wanted to listen to him because

00:38:46.789 --> 00:38:49.409
nobody had done it before. Anyway, you know what

00:38:49.409 --> 00:38:51.710
I'm talking about. Yeah. Well, that's funny because

00:38:51.710 --> 00:38:53.730
that mirrors something that I was just made aware

00:38:53.730 --> 00:38:58.329
of not too long ago, to be honest. um there was

00:38:58.329 --> 00:39:03.530
a study done on the 4896 firefighter schedule

00:39:03.530 --> 00:39:07.929
which is pure insanity and yet i'm seeing postings

00:39:07.929 --> 00:39:10.510
all over social media i had no idea how many

00:39:10.510 --> 00:39:12.530
departments had gone to that insane schedule

00:39:12.530 --> 00:39:16.409
the backstory is that they uh it was a volunteer

00:39:16.409 --> 00:39:18.570
firefighter that went into the research world

00:39:18.570 --> 00:39:20.510
he'd never actually worked a night shift even

00:39:20.510 --> 00:39:22.789
i had him on the show super nice guy but he became

00:39:22.789 --> 00:39:28.280
a researcher um did a study 2448 versus 4896.

00:39:29.000 --> 00:39:31.380
I'll give you the cliff notes. Came away, oh,

00:39:31.400 --> 00:39:34.139
the 4896 slightly better on, I think they measured

00:39:34.139 --> 00:39:37.960
cortisol and some other things. Well, the fire

00:39:37.960 --> 00:39:40.260
service ran with it and they were like, oh, this

00:39:40.260 --> 00:39:43.539
must be the best one. No one kind of looked into

00:39:43.539 --> 00:39:45.119
it. Like, well, tell me about the department

00:39:45.119 --> 00:39:47.360
that you studied. The department they studied

00:39:47.360 --> 00:39:50.340
ran one call a shift, one call in 24 hours, less

00:39:50.340 --> 00:39:54.429
than one, so zero at night. So the only benefit

00:39:54.429 --> 00:39:56.269
they found is that second day when they woke

00:39:56.269 --> 00:39:58.369
up in the fire station, having slept all night

00:39:58.369 --> 00:40:00.050
and knowing that you probably weren't going to

00:40:00.050 --> 00:40:03.170
get a call, they woke up. So they didn't have

00:40:03.170 --> 00:40:05.250
to get up at 5 a .m. and drive 70 miles to a

00:40:05.250 --> 00:40:09.309
fire station. Well, the takeaway is, A, that's

00:40:09.309 --> 00:40:11.170
obviously an insane schedule for anyone that

00:40:11.170 --> 00:40:14.309
actually runs calls. And B, if you want to get

00:40:14.309 --> 00:40:17.829
that one benefit that study showed, why do we,

00:40:17.889 --> 00:40:20.150
the fire service, always start at 7 or 8 in the

00:40:20.150 --> 00:40:22.570
morning? So you have to wake up at five to get

00:40:22.570 --> 00:40:24.210
there in time when most of us live out of the

00:40:24.210 --> 00:40:28.570
city. So kind of adding on to what your colleague's

00:40:28.570 --> 00:40:33.130
suggestion was, start at 12 noon. Now you get

00:40:33.130 --> 00:40:35.010
to lie in. You get to have breakfast with your

00:40:35.010 --> 00:40:37.789
kids and your spouse. They all go off. Then you

00:40:37.789 --> 00:40:40.150
go to the station. And the person that was up

00:40:40.150 --> 00:40:42.289
all night getting murdered running calls, like

00:40:42.289 --> 00:40:44.190
you said, in the peak time, which for us is usually

00:40:44.190 --> 00:40:47.199
night. Now they can actually sleep in, maybe

00:40:47.199 --> 00:40:49.699
catch an extra hour or two. And so they don't

00:40:49.699 --> 00:40:51.900
become a smear on a freeway bridge on their way

00:40:51.900 --> 00:40:56.019
home. So genius. But again, why has no one thought

00:40:56.019 --> 00:40:58.000
about that? And I think there are a few departments

00:40:58.000 --> 00:40:59.960
around the country that have made it. But what

00:40:59.960 --> 00:41:02.900
a simple solution to one of the problems, not

00:41:02.900 --> 00:41:05.880
all of them. The other one is 24 -7 to make us

00:41:05.880 --> 00:41:09.059
work 42 hours like law enforcement. But, you

00:41:09.059 --> 00:41:11.519
know, just simply changing the start time and

00:41:11.519 --> 00:41:14.179
questioning why the fuck do we get there at seven

00:41:14.179 --> 00:41:17.699
is so easy. But again, like you said, oh, but

00:41:17.699 --> 00:41:19.980
we've always done it that way. That's not the

00:41:19.980 --> 00:41:23.800
right answer. So one of the best schedules I

00:41:23.800 --> 00:41:27.639
worked was early on in my career. At the time,

00:41:27.639 --> 00:41:30.599
we had a chief who had retired from the NYPD,

00:41:30.920 --> 00:41:34.619
moved down south and took over as chief of our

00:41:34.619 --> 00:41:37.750
department. completely different perspective,

00:41:37.929 --> 00:41:41.369
but was like, I want y 'all out there fighting

00:41:41.369 --> 00:41:44.750
crime. You are not an armed secretary. I don't

00:41:44.750 --> 00:41:47.610
want you just taking a report. Solve it. You

00:41:47.610 --> 00:41:49.590
know what I mean? Like if someone gives you a

00:41:49.590 --> 00:41:52.789
lead, run with it. And the shifts that we worked

00:41:52.789 --> 00:41:57.309
were 10 hour shifts. And you had this day shift,

00:41:57.489 --> 00:42:00.909
an evening shift and a night shift. The evening

00:42:00.909 --> 00:42:03.369
shift, we would come in and I think it was at

00:42:03.369 --> 00:42:06.670
3 p .m. in the afternoon. You would answer calls

00:42:06.670 --> 00:42:09.309
until I think it was seven, somewhere around

00:42:09.309 --> 00:42:11.670
there. And then if you were, or maybe it was

00:42:11.670 --> 00:42:13.650
nine o 'clock, but if you were caught up on all

00:42:13.650 --> 00:42:15.489
your reports, you're taking a bunch of frigging

00:42:15.489 --> 00:42:18.070
reports. So if you were caught up on all your

00:42:18.070 --> 00:42:21.090
reports, you turning your evidence from your

00:42:21.090 --> 00:42:24.190
drug arrest and all this stuff. And then the

00:42:24.190 --> 00:42:26.389
rest of the shift, however many hours it was

00:42:26.389 --> 00:42:28.329
two or three extra hours, four hours, whatever

00:42:28.329 --> 00:42:31.449
you went proactive. So what, in essence, what

00:42:31.449 --> 00:42:33.469
you had was your night shift came in earlier.

00:42:34.090 --> 00:42:36.190
at like whatever time, seven, eight, nine, somewhere

00:42:36.190 --> 00:42:38.809
around there. And they're running calls while

00:42:38.809 --> 00:42:41.369
that evening shift, halfway through their shift,

00:42:41.449 --> 00:42:43.570
while they're still fresh, they go proactive.

00:42:43.869 --> 00:42:46.590
And so I was a brand new officer and I had a

00:42:46.590 --> 00:42:50.090
corporal who would go and like borrow this work

00:42:50.090 --> 00:42:53.210
van from city sanitation or whoever he got it

00:42:53.210 --> 00:42:56.070
from. And we would literally roll around in that

00:42:56.070 --> 00:42:59.750
van, do surveillance and then jump out and chase

00:42:59.750 --> 00:43:02.110
guys with guns in our waistband, get drugs off

00:43:02.110 --> 00:43:04.469
of them. And that's how I started debriefing

00:43:04.469 --> 00:43:06.489
people about gangs and stuff that they were in

00:43:06.489 --> 00:43:08.730
because I would search them and see stuff in

00:43:08.730 --> 00:43:12.630
their pockets. Anyway, but it was this idea of

00:43:12.630 --> 00:43:16.869
a force multiplier. And then we actually had

00:43:16.869 --> 00:43:20.130
a culture of, damn, did you hear so -and -so

00:43:20.130 --> 00:43:23.230
got a gun last night? Or, hey, so -and -so made

00:43:23.230 --> 00:43:26.030
an arrest, read them their rights, flipped them,

00:43:26.130 --> 00:43:28.929
and actually figured out whatever, helped solve

00:43:28.929 --> 00:43:33.190
35 break -ins. I mean, it was really cool. proactive

00:43:33.190 --> 00:43:36.329
work. And a buddy of mine, we had actually, I

00:43:36.329 --> 00:43:38.969
jumped out on this guy that I knew was not a

00:43:38.969 --> 00:43:42.329
blood from this certain area. And I jumped out

00:43:42.329 --> 00:43:44.610
on him and I, and he was just moving a different

00:43:44.610 --> 00:43:47.650
way. He had a headpiece on or whatever. He's

00:43:47.650 --> 00:43:49.469
like a, like a bandana folded up or whatever,

00:43:49.530 --> 00:43:53.530
like a flag on his head. Anyway, I started debriefing

00:43:53.530 --> 00:43:56.769
him and start to get information that links into

00:43:56.769 --> 00:43:59.010
all these murders, like probably four or five

00:43:59.010 --> 00:44:02.610
murders across the state. And he was actually

00:44:02.610 --> 00:44:06.469
on the outs with his blood set in a different

00:44:06.469 --> 00:44:10.269
city. And he came to our city to actually put

00:44:10.269 --> 00:44:12.969
in work, to actually shoot somebody, to try to

00:44:12.969 --> 00:44:16.130
make his name good. We took the guy back to the

00:44:16.130 --> 00:44:17.429
station. I took the guy back to the station and

00:44:17.429 --> 00:44:18.969
got my buddy. We sat in there and interviewed

00:44:18.969 --> 00:44:21.289
him for hours. We were getting this information,

00:44:21.429 --> 00:44:22.849
and then we were following up on it. So we ended

00:44:22.849 --> 00:44:26.010
up working all the way into the next shift, and

00:44:26.010 --> 00:44:28.550
we were patrol officers. But our sergeant was

00:44:28.550 --> 00:44:30.510
like, run with it, man. Like this dude, you're

00:44:30.510 --> 00:44:32.630
doing your gang thing. You know, he's giving

00:44:32.630 --> 00:44:35.510
you information. Run with it. And to me, that

00:44:35.510 --> 00:44:38.250
was that. That was what police work was all about.

00:44:38.369 --> 00:44:40.230
Like, I'll go out there and respond to a car

00:44:40.230 --> 00:44:43.409
crash or, you know, I'll stop cars and give a

00:44:43.409 --> 00:44:46.250
lot of verbal warnings for, you know, seatbelt

00:44:46.250 --> 00:44:48.789
violations, whatever they got going on. But let

00:44:48.789 --> 00:44:50.769
me do the real work. You know, this is this is

00:44:50.769 --> 00:44:53.989
my beat. This is my area. So stuff like that.

00:44:54.920 --> 00:44:58.400
that our violent crime was down because we were

00:44:58.400 --> 00:45:01.480
so proactive. Then all of a sudden when you switch,

00:45:01.900 --> 00:45:04.880
which we did, you go to 12 -hour shifts, you

00:45:04.880 --> 00:45:08.340
lose those proactive officers who are not just

00:45:08.340 --> 00:45:10.099
responding to calls. They're jumping out on people

00:45:10.099 --> 00:45:11.599
and setting up surveillance and doing stuff.

00:45:12.239 --> 00:45:14.960
Then you've got to have units doing the proactive

00:45:14.960 --> 00:45:20.019
side to keep the criminal gangs in defensive

00:45:20.019 --> 00:45:23.460
mode. So that is what a lot of departments do

00:45:23.460 --> 00:45:26.960
is they they panic. They see violence escalating

00:45:26.960 --> 00:45:31.119
and they scale everything back. So they take,

00:45:31.139 --> 00:45:35.280
say, a 12 person or even six person drug unit

00:45:35.280 --> 00:45:37.500
and say, hey, you got to go answer calls. You

00:45:37.500 --> 00:45:40.159
got to be on patrol, you know, and then you lose

00:45:40.159 --> 00:45:42.739
your proactive asset. So now all your all your

00:45:42.739 --> 00:45:46.599
gang members and criminals in certain areas are

00:45:46.599 --> 00:45:49.920
not seeing the arrest and they start. doing what

00:45:49.920 --> 00:45:52.679
they do, you know, carrying guns more often,

00:45:52.760 --> 00:45:55.420
getting in the shootings, shootings go unsolved

00:45:55.420 --> 00:45:57.599
because you're not rolling people up left and

00:45:57.599 --> 00:46:00.940
right. And it's just all that, that cycle. So

00:46:00.940 --> 00:46:03.480
the cool thing is like, and I tell everybody,

00:46:03.519 --> 00:46:06.800
if you're disgruntled with your upper command,

00:46:07.039 --> 00:46:11.480
put in for promotion at every chance, get promoted

00:46:11.480 --> 00:46:14.980
and then explain your ideas. And a lot of people

00:46:14.980 --> 00:46:17.699
will get mad that maybe hear this or in police

00:46:17.699 --> 00:46:20.000
work. And they may say, oh, it doesn't work that

00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:22.800
way. You gotta sell your soul to get promoted.

00:46:22.860 --> 00:46:26.139
It's like, you don't. Be an asset, be very good

00:46:26.139 --> 00:46:29.000
at what you do. So that when you do talk and

00:46:29.000 --> 00:46:31.639
you talk about even like shift work, you can

00:46:31.639 --> 00:46:35.519
come at it from a logical perspective. And then

00:46:35.519 --> 00:46:37.920
if the department does implement that change,

00:46:38.179 --> 00:46:40.659
then they fully understand, okay, you're pretty

00:46:40.659 --> 00:46:43.739
good at what you're doing. If they don't, guess

00:46:43.739 --> 00:46:46.079
what? Nothing's gonna change. So when people

00:46:46.079 --> 00:46:48.920
apply to your department, And they hear you got

00:46:48.920 --> 00:46:51.579
12 hour shifts that rotate, which that's what

00:46:51.579 --> 00:46:54.119
when I left, I wasn't doing shift work. But that

00:46:54.119 --> 00:46:56.719
was one of the problems. People were applying

00:46:56.719 --> 00:46:59.780
and they did not want to work 12 hour rotations.

00:47:00.119 --> 00:47:01.679
You know, they did. They wanted to be able to

00:47:01.679 --> 00:47:04.260
pick night shift, day shift, that sort of thing.

00:47:04.900 --> 00:47:08.440
So if departments don't listen to the best ideas

00:47:08.440 --> 00:47:13.239
coming from their their ground level, just expect

00:47:13.239 --> 00:47:15.280
the same thing. If you're not going to pay more.

00:47:15.800 --> 00:47:17.280
And you don't change the schedule. You don't

00:47:17.280 --> 00:47:21.239
do things to help make lives better for the workers,

00:47:21.360 --> 00:47:24.199
the officers and detectives. Don't scratch your

00:47:24.199 --> 00:47:26.920
head and wonder why people aren't applying, you

00:47:26.920 --> 00:47:30.679
know, a thousand at a time to fill your 200 vacancies.

00:47:30.719 --> 00:47:32.780
That's what I had when I retired. There were

00:47:32.780 --> 00:47:36.039
over 200 officer vacancies in the department.

00:47:36.179 --> 00:47:40.579
And that is, dude, that's not, that's not good.

00:47:40.900 --> 00:47:42.960
You can get, but this is the thing, like you

00:47:42.960 --> 00:47:47.199
can get away with having. you know, almost a

00:47:47.199 --> 00:47:52.340
fourth of your department vacant if you put people

00:47:52.340 --> 00:47:54.739
in the right place and you take care of them.

00:47:54.820 --> 00:47:57.440
And like you were talking about, you change some

00:47:57.440 --> 00:48:01.199
shift work around, but you cannot keep doing

00:48:01.199 --> 00:48:05.320
the same thing and watching people resign or

00:48:05.320 --> 00:48:07.960
people apply and then tell you, hey, I would

00:48:07.960 --> 00:48:09.920
have gone with your department, but this other

00:48:09.920 --> 00:48:12.139
department had a signing bonus of whatever, you

00:48:12.139 --> 00:48:14.320
know, amount. I'm going down the street because

00:48:14.320 --> 00:48:16.860
I'm going to do less work, do one or two calls

00:48:16.860 --> 00:48:21.460
a night and get paid a whole lot of money. I've

00:48:21.460 --> 00:48:23.239
talked about this a lot and we hit on it before

00:48:23.239 --> 00:48:26.380
we hit record. Being an incurable optimist, because

00:48:26.380 --> 00:48:28.099
obviously I'm pulling a lot of the problems out

00:48:28.099 --> 00:48:31.099
into the spotlight, but with the idea of bringing

00:48:31.099 --> 00:48:33.920
solutions at the same time. But if you want to

00:48:33.920 --> 00:48:36.440
see an upside of this crisis that we're in, it's

00:48:36.440 --> 00:48:38.559
like, well, there's no better time to force change.

00:48:39.000 --> 00:48:40.840
you can't bury your head in the sand anymore.

00:48:40.940 --> 00:48:43.260
If you're a quarter of your department down,

00:48:43.480 --> 00:48:46.179
what message is that sending to the underworld?

00:48:46.440 --> 00:48:48.320
It's like, wow, they're weakening. That means

00:48:48.320 --> 00:48:51.400
that we can grow stronger. So from the fire side,

00:48:51.500 --> 00:48:54.500
which is the world I know, what I've heard, and

00:48:54.500 --> 00:48:58.820
this seems to be an absolute truth, the kind

00:48:58.820 --> 00:49:02.679
of encouraging thing is the Gen Zs are actually

00:49:02.679 --> 00:49:06.420
leaning into the trades because when they have

00:49:06.420 --> 00:49:08.400
all this information at their fingertips now,

00:49:08.960 --> 00:49:10.880
they Google, oh, what's college like? And like,

00:49:10.940 --> 00:49:12.920
well, it's $50 ,000 worth of debt and you get

00:49:12.920 --> 00:49:14.760
a piece of paper that won't guarantee you a job.

00:49:14.920 --> 00:49:17.159
And this is smart generation. And they're like,

00:49:17.239 --> 00:49:18.820
well, that sounds terrible. I don't want to be

00:49:18.820 --> 00:49:20.840
a lawyer or a doctor. So let me not do that.

00:49:21.039 --> 00:49:24.019
I'm going to go be a welder. So we have a generation

00:49:24.019 --> 00:49:27.320
of kids that actually would be the perfect fit

00:49:27.320 --> 00:49:30.619
for these professions. The reason why the fire

00:49:30.619 --> 00:49:33.820
service has this massive recruitment crisis is

00:49:33.820 --> 00:49:37.619
they have refused to adapt to the, you know,

00:49:38.599 --> 00:49:41.960
exploding core volumes the uh the things that

00:49:41.960 --> 00:49:44.380
were broken right from the get -go they've buried

00:49:44.380 --> 00:49:46.119
their head in the sand when it comes to the cancers

00:49:46.119 --> 00:49:49.360
and the suicides and all the other things and

00:49:49.360 --> 00:49:52.000
now just like you alluded to those holes in your

00:49:52.000 --> 00:49:54.280
department i'm assuming are being filled by officers

00:49:54.280 --> 00:49:57.239
either signing up or being forced to work overtime

00:49:57.239 --> 00:49:59.460
and that's what we have in the fire service so

00:49:59.460 --> 00:50:03.179
now an insane 56 hour work week which is bonkers

00:50:03.179 --> 00:50:06.139
to begin with now becomes an 80 hour work week

00:50:06.570 --> 00:50:08.389
So the people in the government buildings are

00:50:08.389 --> 00:50:10.769
saying you don't deserve to work less. These

00:50:10.769 --> 00:50:13.130
guys are working double their work week in a

00:50:13.130 --> 00:50:15.869
week and they're saving lives. You know, they're

00:50:15.869 --> 00:50:19.949
not pushing papers. So to me, on the fire side,

00:50:20.050 --> 00:50:22.170
the way that we actually turn this around, because

00:50:22.170 --> 00:50:24.630
you want to have a list of a thousand recruits

00:50:24.630 --> 00:50:26.610
and take a hundred of them. because that's how

00:50:26.610 --> 00:50:28.789
you get good firefighters, good police officers,

00:50:28.949 --> 00:50:31.550
is you fix the things that are broken. You proactively

00:50:31.550 --> 00:50:33.750
invest. And you think about the millions of dollars

00:50:33.750 --> 00:50:35.889
that those 200 vacancies are costing in overtime

00:50:35.889 --> 00:50:38.889
at the moment at time and a half. So it's a complete

00:50:38.889 --> 00:50:41.610
false economy. So you front load that money.

00:50:41.670 --> 00:50:44.389
You put more people, you know, in our case, you

00:50:44.389 --> 00:50:47.360
make a fourth shift. You put fitness standards

00:50:47.360 --> 00:50:49.360
in. So you're holding people accountable throughout

00:50:49.360 --> 00:50:52.000
their career. You put a mental health counselor

00:50:52.000 --> 00:50:54.340
in full time. So there's no barrier to entry

00:50:54.340 --> 00:50:57.280
for the brand new guy to start processing the

00:50:57.280 --> 00:50:59.099
shit that happened before he even put the uniform

00:50:59.099 --> 00:51:02.219
on. Now you've created a culture of wellness

00:51:02.219 --> 00:51:05.980
and performance. And now you will have people

00:51:05.980 --> 00:51:08.619
lining up around the building again. So we can

00:51:08.619 --> 00:51:11.679
solve this on the fire side if we actually fix

00:51:11.679 --> 00:51:13.820
the things that these young people can see are

00:51:13.820 --> 00:51:16.369
broken. They are looking at it. Facts and figures.

00:51:16.909 --> 00:51:20.530
That's my perception on fire. Your environment

00:51:20.530 --> 00:51:23.269
is a little different. You've probably been pulled

00:51:23.269 --> 00:51:25.369
through more coals through the media recently.

00:51:25.690 --> 00:51:28.690
What would you add to that as far as law enforcement

00:51:28.690 --> 00:51:30.949
so we can turn this crisis around in your profession?

00:51:32.789 --> 00:51:37.550
If say I'm a chief or chief or sheriff, get a

00:51:37.550 --> 00:51:41.050
frigging piece of paper and write down one through

00:51:41.050 --> 00:51:46.119
10 and then go around. at the roll calls on patrol

00:51:46.119 --> 00:51:50.460
and ask the officers flat out, Hey, I've got

00:51:50.460 --> 00:51:52.719
a list right here. I got 10 vacant slots here.

00:51:53.019 --> 00:51:56.599
You tell me things that, that I can change like

00:51:56.599 --> 00:51:59.880
that, that I have the power to change that maybe

00:51:59.880 --> 00:52:05.199
even can change before next month and fill those

00:52:05.199 --> 00:52:07.860
10 in at every roll call. So you're basically

00:52:07.860 --> 00:52:11.280
hitting all of your staff and I don't. I don't

00:52:11.280 --> 00:52:13.360
care for leaders. If you got to get your ass

00:52:13.360 --> 00:52:15.079
up at two o 'clock in the morning and go to a

00:52:15.079 --> 00:52:18.460
roll call, that's what a leader does. And when

00:52:18.460 --> 00:52:21.599
you get all those items, you go through them,

00:52:21.659 --> 00:52:23.360
you're probably going to have, I say 10, because

00:52:23.360 --> 00:52:25.619
for the most part, it's about 10 things that

00:52:25.619 --> 00:52:29.179
most officers complain about that can be changed

00:52:29.179 --> 00:52:32.480
that quickly. And one of the things that we used

00:52:32.480 --> 00:52:35.599
to talk about, and I had a talk with, at that

00:52:35.599 --> 00:52:40.159
time, the chief, and he was not a great leader.

00:52:40.750 --> 00:52:44.469
In that sense, he was an egomaniac. But one of

00:52:44.469 --> 00:52:46.550
the things that we were arguing as officers was,

00:52:46.650 --> 00:52:51.250
hey, why are we being made to wear a tie in uniform?

00:52:51.909 --> 00:52:54.489
This is very strange. We understand wearing a

00:52:54.489 --> 00:52:57.670
tie during ceremonies and stuff. Got it. Or going

00:52:57.670 --> 00:53:00.809
to court, of course. We're not going to court

00:53:00.809 --> 00:53:04.510
in our boots that we're wearing on our beat and

00:53:04.510 --> 00:53:06.190
stuff. We wear our shiny shoes and all that.

00:53:06.409 --> 00:53:09.309
But if I'm out there on patrol and I'm watching

00:53:09.309 --> 00:53:12.460
a dude, touching his waistband numerous times,

00:53:12.599 --> 00:53:14.539
looking left to right and all that. Okay, I'm

00:53:14.539 --> 00:53:16.539
going to jump out on this guy and my check -in

00:53:16.539 --> 00:53:18.619
officer's with me. And I know I'm going to search

00:53:18.619 --> 00:53:21.800
him or at least frisk him. Every time I move

00:53:21.800 --> 00:53:24.599
my head down, I'm choking myself with this tie.

00:53:25.000 --> 00:53:27.199
Like legit, because they were clip -on ties.

00:53:27.900 --> 00:53:30.239
So that was the thing too. Like, oh, well, for

00:53:30.239 --> 00:53:32.039
safety reasons, they pop off. Well, guess what?

00:53:32.079 --> 00:53:35.039
A clip -on tie is like a big plastic knot in

00:53:35.039 --> 00:53:38.280
your neck. So I had argued this numerous times,

00:53:38.380 --> 00:53:41.519
but hey, what? Why don't we just change the policy

00:53:41.519 --> 00:53:44.699
to where if we want to wear a tie, we can on

00:53:44.699 --> 00:53:48.239
patrol. But if we don't want to, let's not. And

00:53:48.239 --> 00:53:50.940
this goofball says, oh, I understand what you're

00:53:50.940 --> 00:53:53.260
saying. I understand. When I was on patrol, I

00:53:53.260 --> 00:53:55.920
would just take my tie off at night. And then

00:53:55.920 --> 00:53:58.079
if I saw the big saw, I'd throw the tie back

00:53:58.079 --> 00:54:00.519
on. I'm like, OK, I understand that, sir. So

00:54:00.519 --> 00:54:02.619
basically what you want us to do is violate policy

00:54:02.619 --> 00:54:06.280
so that we can be comfortable where all you have

00:54:06.280 --> 00:54:08.139
to do is change the policy and then we just don't

00:54:08.139 --> 00:54:10.449
have to wear it. And really, that's some of our

00:54:10.449 --> 00:54:13.030
biggest complaints. We're searching people and

00:54:13.030 --> 00:54:15.389
trying to move our heads around. I don't need

00:54:15.389 --> 00:54:18.309
to be choking myself out when I'm checking someone's

00:54:18.309 --> 00:54:20.969
ankles or whatever. But if leaders did that and

00:54:20.969 --> 00:54:23.809
just had a list of 10 things that they could

00:54:23.809 --> 00:54:25.630
change, just like that with a quick policy change,

00:54:25.750 --> 00:54:29.590
and do it, then you're actually being a leader

00:54:29.590 --> 00:54:32.610
and showing the officers and the deputies and

00:54:32.610 --> 00:54:35.150
detectives, hey, I care enough to come, one,

00:54:35.210 --> 00:54:36.690
to come to your roll call and talk to you, and

00:54:36.690 --> 00:54:40.159
two, If it's something as simple as that, that's

00:54:40.159 --> 00:54:43.539
done. If it's something to do with pay, understand

00:54:43.539 --> 00:54:45.880
we're going to do pay studies, that sort of thing.

00:54:45.960 --> 00:54:48.179
But what can we change now? If it's schedule,

00:54:48.480 --> 00:54:51.579
damn, start testing some of these schedules out.

00:54:51.719 --> 00:54:54.219
It can't get worse. You know what I mean? And

00:54:54.219 --> 00:54:57.519
if it does, then you can articulate, hey, whatever,

00:54:57.719 --> 00:55:01.079
Officer Sanders, you had a chance. You pitched

00:55:01.079 --> 00:55:03.500
your schedule. We tried it. It was a disaster.

00:55:04.860 --> 00:55:08.079
Go back to their chalkboard or whatever. But

00:55:08.079 --> 00:55:11.539
that's my thing in both fields, but definitely

00:55:11.539 --> 00:55:14.840
in police work. Officers are going out there

00:55:14.840 --> 00:55:18.519
because they love the job. Nobody goes into police

00:55:18.519 --> 00:55:22.420
work because of the pay. Now, they may go to

00:55:22.420 --> 00:55:24.340
a certain department because they pay more than

00:55:24.340 --> 00:55:27.639
the other. But the police work itself is inherently

00:55:27.639 --> 00:55:31.179
dangerous. It is selfless service. And there

00:55:31.179 --> 00:55:33.480
are other things that we do in society. Jobs

00:55:33.480 --> 00:55:37.940
are selfless. But it is. But it's because I tell

00:55:37.940 --> 00:55:41.079
people I was born with an affliction that I wanted

00:55:41.079 --> 00:55:44.019
to help people, that I could not stomach a bully.

00:55:44.119 --> 00:55:46.659
I didn't want to see violence occurring in my

00:55:46.659 --> 00:55:49.739
city. And I thought, yeah, I might be pretty

00:55:49.739 --> 00:55:53.579
good at it. And I loved it. But I did see leadership

00:55:53.579 --> 00:55:57.039
sometimes at the highest level screw everything

00:55:57.039 --> 00:56:00.079
up. And it was small things like that that they

00:56:00.079 --> 00:56:03.469
could have done to change that. And then the

00:56:03.469 --> 00:56:05.369
department doesn't necessarily have to worry

00:56:05.369 --> 00:56:08.449
so much about money. Officers will adapt to the

00:56:08.449 --> 00:56:12.389
money if you pay them a reasonable salary. But

00:56:12.389 --> 00:56:15.230
if you make that work condition, things like

00:56:15.230 --> 00:56:21.130
that, uniform changes, like in my career, finally,

00:56:21.150 --> 00:56:24.389
the department changed to a more breathable material

00:56:24.389 --> 00:56:30.409
and vest. Plate carriers and vests instead of

00:56:30.409 --> 00:56:33.730
the old school, you know, duty belt and wool

00:56:33.730 --> 00:56:36.630
pants and like polyester blend shirts. I mean,

00:56:36.650 --> 00:56:38.630
it was it was tough. And you're in the South

00:56:38.630 --> 00:56:42.289
and you're wearing this like this material. And

00:56:42.289 --> 00:56:43.889
I had buddies that some of them would have to

00:56:43.889 --> 00:56:47.090
change their uniform shirt at least once through

00:56:47.090 --> 00:56:49.030
a 12 hour shift in like July and August because

00:56:49.030 --> 00:56:51.630
they would just be covered in sweat. So small

00:56:51.630 --> 00:56:55.730
things like that that chiefs and leadership can

00:56:55.730 --> 00:57:01.920
do. As well as put like specialized units and

00:57:01.920 --> 00:57:05.139
proactive units and special assignments at the

00:57:05.139 --> 00:57:07.760
forefront. Most people that go into police work

00:57:07.760 --> 00:57:12.300
want to be able to do the fun stuff. And I watched

00:57:12.300 --> 00:57:16.380
my department go from having two full -time gang

00:57:16.380 --> 00:57:21.239
suppression unit teams that actually worked together.

00:57:21.440 --> 00:57:23.239
You didn't split the units up. They tried to

00:57:23.239 --> 00:57:26.159
split us up. We were like, no. There were 14

00:57:26.159 --> 00:57:28.940
officers and two sergeants, and it was absolutely

00:57:28.940 --> 00:57:31.940
incredible. And even when it scaled down to like

00:57:31.940 --> 00:57:35.280
eight members on the team, we still could operate

00:57:35.280 --> 00:57:39.519
very effectively. But we knew that the whole

00:57:39.519 --> 00:57:41.860
goal was to always keep 14 people on the team.

00:57:42.239 --> 00:57:45.940
What eventually happened is weaker leaders didn't

00:57:45.940 --> 00:57:48.780
make good decisions, and the teams got scaled

00:57:48.780 --> 00:57:51.960
back for years to like four officers and a sergeant.

00:57:52.400 --> 00:57:54.739
And it was dangerous. They were getting involved

00:57:54.739 --> 00:57:58.599
in shootings. And so this idea, I guess, kind

00:57:58.599 --> 00:58:01.800
of rippled that, oh, the more proactive units

00:58:01.800 --> 00:58:03.380
you have, the more chance you're going to make

00:58:03.380 --> 00:58:05.739
a national story because they're involved in

00:58:05.739 --> 00:58:08.260
shootings was the opposite. Because we would

00:58:08.260 --> 00:58:10.159
always ask gang members, hey, why didn't you

00:58:10.159 --> 00:58:13.320
run? You had me. Everywhere I looked, there were

00:58:13.320 --> 00:58:15.400
cops, you know, because we would roll so deep.

00:58:16.239 --> 00:58:19.119
And it was this idea of after a while, you dealt

00:58:19.119 --> 00:58:21.340
with so many gang members, they knew the unit.

00:58:21.739 --> 00:58:23.300
And they were like, why am I going to run, man?

00:58:23.400 --> 00:58:26.800
Y 'all got us on every block. That's it. I'm

00:58:26.800 --> 00:58:28.260
just going to take my charges and go lay down.

00:58:28.480 --> 00:58:32.699
Which goes back to your point. Police departments

00:58:32.699 --> 00:58:36.300
can break the resolve of criminal organizations.

00:58:37.280 --> 00:58:41.239
Gangs, motorcycle clubs can break it. Or you

00:58:41.239 --> 00:58:44.300
can embolden it. And you break it, just like

00:58:44.300 --> 00:58:47.760
I said. When people move strategically and they

00:58:47.760 --> 00:58:50.460
have the support of the police department. And

00:58:50.460 --> 00:58:53.280
the patrol officers know they have a chance to

00:58:53.280 --> 00:58:55.980
eventually get on like that gang unit and do

00:58:55.980 --> 00:58:58.380
like really cool work. It can be playing clothes.

00:58:58.500 --> 00:59:01.099
It can be surveillance. It can be working informants.

00:59:01.440 --> 00:59:04.800
I mean, it's, you know, you could do all those

00:59:04.800 --> 00:59:09.420
things and decimate the most violent gang in

00:59:09.420 --> 00:59:11.920
the city and then use that as the example to

00:59:11.920 --> 00:59:14.139
the next violent gang. You just go to them. Hey,

00:59:14.239 --> 00:59:17.579
you ate Trey Crip. You know, you saw what we

00:59:17.579 --> 00:59:20.900
did. to you know donald g you saw what we did

00:59:20.900 --> 00:59:24.440
to you know rolling 60s or five deuce hoovers

00:59:24.440 --> 00:59:27.599
like we decimated them we really don't want to

00:59:27.599 --> 00:59:29.300
do that to y 'all y 'all are pretty cool and

00:59:29.300 --> 00:59:31.360
y 'all don't get into a lot of shootings but

00:59:31.360 --> 00:59:33.719
you saw what happened everybody's laying on the

00:59:33.719 --> 00:59:36.460
yard now is that what you want to happen and

00:59:36.460 --> 00:59:39.219
man nine times out of ten gangs will be like

00:59:39.219 --> 00:59:42.519
no look we'll we'll control our stuff y 'all

00:59:42.519 --> 00:59:45.719
go mess with somebody else so cities can still

00:59:45.719 --> 00:59:51.059
have a short staffed police department and get

00:59:51.059 --> 00:59:53.039
a couple of heavy hitters like that and really

00:59:53.039 --> 00:59:57.179
be strategic and, and drive that down. But, but

00:59:57.179 --> 00:59:59.239
a lot of that just has to be that, like you have

00:59:59.239 --> 01:00:04.119
to look at what brings people into departments.

01:00:04.440 --> 01:00:07.300
I sat in a meeting one time and I talked to the

01:00:07.300 --> 01:00:12.659
upper, upper echelon and my pitch was change

01:00:12.659 --> 01:00:17.780
the process in which brand new officers can get

01:00:17.780 --> 01:00:20.179
on a specialized unit. So somebody comes through

01:00:20.179 --> 01:00:22.460
the door and they're sworn and they're on patrol.

01:00:22.840 --> 01:00:26.480
And the next day, the SWAT tryout start or gang

01:00:26.480 --> 01:00:29.920
unit tryout start, let those officers put in.

01:00:30.260 --> 01:00:33.539
And so some of the upper command, one in particular

01:00:33.539 --> 01:00:35.880
thought was a terrible idea. And he said, ah,

01:00:35.940 --> 01:00:38.059
four years minimum. That's what the policy is.

01:00:38.119 --> 01:00:39.880
That's what we're sticking with. Cause that's

01:00:39.880 --> 01:00:41.760
how we got to get four years worth of work out

01:00:41.760 --> 01:00:45.760
of them. And my argument was, Well, if you're

01:00:45.760 --> 01:00:48.579
recruiting and someone comes up and says, I want

01:00:48.579 --> 01:00:51.300
to do gang work, what do I got to do? Oh, you

01:00:51.300 --> 01:00:54.039
got to do patrol for four years. That's a turnoff.

01:00:54.360 --> 01:00:57.019
But if you tell them, hey, day one, when you

01:00:57.019 --> 01:00:59.199
graduate the academy and you're off of field

01:00:59.199 --> 01:01:02.860
training and you got your own beat, you can put

01:01:02.860 --> 01:01:06.460
in for gang unit, SWAT, K -9, motorcycles, bicycle,

01:01:06.619 --> 01:01:10.340
whatever. There's no limit on time in grade or

01:01:10.340 --> 01:01:13.480
time in service. But guess what? Most people

01:01:13.480 --> 01:01:15.739
aren't going to make the cut early on. It'll

01:01:15.739 --> 01:01:18.519
be the veteran officers or senior officers. But

01:01:18.519 --> 01:01:21.539
it's a great recruiting tool because, one, you

01:01:21.539 --> 01:01:24.159
get people in the door, and two, you can steal

01:01:24.159 --> 01:01:27.219
the talent. One of the best officers I ever worked

01:01:27.219 --> 01:01:29.900
with, and he later became a sergeant, and I brought

01:01:29.900 --> 01:01:33.099
him over on homicide. He's incredible. He continues

01:01:33.099 --> 01:01:35.860
to do great work. That guy had like two years

01:01:35.860 --> 01:01:38.639
on patrol before he came over to our gang unit

01:01:38.639 --> 01:01:42.940
and was absolutely incredible. And to the point

01:01:42.940 --> 01:01:45.079
where they had changed the policy after he came

01:01:45.079 --> 01:01:48.119
over and said you had to have four years on patrol.

01:01:48.639 --> 01:01:51.320
And this dude only had two. And we're like, he's

01:01:51.320 --> 01:01:53.840
proof you shouldn't have these limits made. So

01:01:53.840 --> 01:01:58.019
for departments, change it up. The military did

01:01:58.019 --> 01:02:01.380
it. The Army did it years ago with special operations.

01:02:01.719 --> 01:02:04.360
And you'd have people signing up four years in

01:02:04.360 --> 01:02:06.480
the Army, and the recruiter would be like, oh,

01:02:06.500 --> 01:02:08.789
yeah, you can try out to be a Green Beret. guess

01:02:08.789 --> 01:02:10.809
what they don't they either they make it and

01:02:10.809 --> 01:02:12.489
that great they they get to go where they want

01:02:12.489 --> 01:02:15.389
to go or they wash out and go to uh infantry

01:02:15.389 --> 01:02:17.349
unit or wherever the army puts them i don't know

01:02:17.349 --> 01:02:19.429
but either way the army got somebody through

01:02:19.429 --> 01:02:23.489
the door in a four -year uh contract i i don't

01:02:23.489 --> 01:02:27.409
know it it did not make sense to me while all

01:02:27.409 --> 01:02:30.630
ideas were not being tried when there's that

01:02:30.630 --> 01:02:34.210
many vacancies and and you know at like anything

01:02:35.000 --> 01:02:37.380
Maybe there was some logic and people didn't

01:02:37.380 --> 01:02:39.840
express it to me. I don't know, but I thought

01:02:39.840 --> 01:02:42.820
it was a damn good idea. And I knew plenty of

01:02:42.820 --> 01:02:45.420
patrol officers that just wanted a shot. They

01:02:45.420 --> 01:02:47.500
just wanted a chance to try out for the unit.

01:02:47.739 --> 01:02:50.460
And if they don't make it and the person that

01:02:50.460 --> 01:02:53.079
does make it is the badass on patrol and the

01:02:53.079 --> 01:02:55.559
person who always helps them and they're the

01:02:55.559 --> 01:02:57.659
gang expert, then they're cool with it. And they're

01:02:57.659 --> 01:02:59.199
like, well, that person made it the gang unit.

01:02:59.480 --> 01:03:01.699
Maybe I make it in the next six months or a year.

01:03:02.010 --> 01:03:03.909
But I'm glad that person made it because they're

01:03:03.909 --> 01:03:06.489
squared away and they were the best applicant.

01:03:06.650 --> 01:03:10.150
And I don't know. I could talk for days. I won't

01:03:10.150 --> 01:03:12.650
bore you with that. But, yeah, departments need

01:03:12.650 --> 01:03:14.389
to switch it up. And maybe they are. I think

01:03:14.389 --> 01:03:17.510
we might be in that realm of some departments

01:03:17.510 --> 01:03:20.289
being so desperate they'll do it. Well, speaking

01:03:20.289 --> 01:03:26.050
of desperate, I saw a advert for I forget which

01:03:26.050 --> 01:03:29.219
police department it was now. They had a signing

01:03:29.219 --> 01:03:32.760
bonus of $100 ,000. And I'm sure that wasn't

01:03:32.760 --> 01:03:34.539
like on day one. I'm sure it was spread. But

01:03:34.539 --> 01:03:37.619
regardless, I also was like, OK, so let me because

01:03:37.619 --> 01:03:40.000
I talk about false economy a lot. Let me talk.

01:03:40.059 --> 01:03:42.719
Let me look into some of these notorious events

01:03:42.719 --> 01:03:45.780
that we've had. Columbine. And this was at the

01:03:45.780 --> 01:03:49.440
federal level. The lawsuit was $150 million.

01:03:51.059 --> 01:03:54.320
So every time corners are cut. Whether it's just

01:03:54.320 --> 01:03:56.579
refusing to change and now you're in a recruitment

01:03:56.579 --> 01:03:58.940
crisis, now you're just throwing money at people.

01:03:59.079 --> 01:04:01.820
I mean, if you told either of us 20 years ago,

01:04:02.239 --> 01:04:04.619
hey, one day people are going to be paying you

01:04:04.619 --> 01:04:06.460
tens of thousands of dollars to come to this

01:04:06.460 --> 01:04:09.500
profession while you're in a testing center with

01:04:09.500 --> 01:04:12.000
a thousand other recruits vying for 30 spots,

01:04:12.280 --> 01:04:15.099
you'd be like, there's no fucking way. And here

01:04:15.099 --> 01:04:17.679
we are. So people say to me, though, when it

01:04:17.679 --> 01:04:19.260
comes to the different schedule, oh, would you

01:04:19.260 --> 01:04:22.280
have any data? And the answer is, again, no,

01:04:22.380 --> 01:04:24.420
no one's cared enough to actually look into shift

01:04:24.420 --> 01:04:26.619
work in the fire service and do studies. So,

01:04:26.659 --> 01:04:29.119
yeah, no, we haven't. I don't know why. We can

01:04:29.119 --> 01:04:31.659
tell you've got tiny little houses and all these

01:04:31.659 --> 01:04:33.860
studies on fog nozzles, but nothing on what's

01:04:33.860 --> 01:04:37.239
killing our people. But if you flip it around,

01:04:37.440 --> 01:04:39.860
then, yeah, there's an unending amount of data.

01:04:39.960 --> 01:04:43.219
Do it this way and you will bury firefighters

01:04:43.219 --> 01:04:46.170
by the hundred. You will watch families torn

01:04:46.170 --> 01:04:48.329
apart. You will watch divorces. You will watch

01:04:48.329 --> 01:04:51.269
pediatric illnesses through the shift work of

01:04:51.269 --> 01:04:55.010
the parents. So there's your study. Like if it

01:04:55.010 --> 01:04:57.829
worked, if it really worked, there would be no

01:04:57.829 --> 01:04:59.829
Behind the Shield podcast. I wouldn't have ever

01:04:59.829 --> 01:05:02.349
written a book because this is what this whole

01:05:02.349 --> 01:05:05.289
thing is. So the only answer is to do things

01:05:05.289 --> 01:05:08.250
differently. And if you invest in the profession,

01:05:08.630 --> 01:05:10.530
if you invest in the people you already have.

01:05:11.099 --> 01:05:13.539
You won't be begging for candidates and throwing

01:05:13.539 --> 01:05:17.019
tens of thousands of dollars at them. Yeah, that.

01:05:17.400 --> 01:05:19.719
So I know what you're talking about. And in the

01:05:19.719 --> 01:05:21.619
name of the department, come to me. And it doesn't

01:05:21.619 --> 01:05:24.219
really matter because I'm quite sure that's the

01:05:24.219 --> 01:05:26.300
max is like 100 grand. I'm sure there are plenty

01:05:26.300 --> 01:05:29.880
of others. I know one locally where I was that

01:05:29.880 --> 01:05:31.960
was much smaller than the department I worked

01:05:31.960 --> 01:05:35.360
on. And they had around 30 grand for a signing

01:05:35.360 --> 01:05:38.659
bonus. Now, the starting salary was less, but.

01:05:39.039 --> 01:05:40.780
If somebody's coming through the door and you're

01:05:40.780 --> 01:05:44.280
willing to like hook them in with that, but that

01:05:44.280 --> 01:05:47.440
hundred grand, that department, I would say they

01:05:47.440 --> 01:05:50.599
had probably had a history of really bad decisions.

01:05:51.039 --> 01:05:53.519
I don't mean to laugh. I'm just saying really

01:05:53.519 --> 01:05:57.579
bad decisions that they didn't fix. So now they're,

01:05:57.579 --> 01:06:00.039
they're, you know, throwing this six figure bonus

01:06:00.039 --> 01:06:02.579
out there and people are going to take it and

01:06:02.579 --> 01:06:05.980
good for them. But I also know that like sometimes

01:06:05.980 --> 01:06:07.980
money like that, you're going to earn every dime.

01:06:08.480 --> 01:06:11.159
Um, and it may be like one of those, like it's

01:06:11.159 --> 01:06:13.739
broken up into your first two years, you get

01:06:13.739 --> 01:06:16.940
a quarter of it or whatever, but the, the money

01:06:16.940 --> 01:06:21.960
issue to me, money is, that is what kind of draws

01:06:21.960 --> 01:06:24.800
the eye. And I, I was fortunate enough to sit

01:06:24.800 --> 01:06:28.199
on, um, like every few weeks I would go in and

01:06:28.199 --> 01:06:32.000
sit on a board. That sounds stupid. I didn't

01:06:32.000 --> 01:06:34.539
physically sit on a board, you know, like applicant.

01:06:36.079 --> 01:06:39.039
process. And it would be like three lieutenants

01:06:39.039 --> 01:06:41.880
and then like a captain or something. And you

01:06:41.880 --> 01:06:44.320
ask these, he's already prescribed questions,

01:06:44.380 --> 01:06:46.880
but the applicants you're, you're interviewing

01:06:46.880 --> 01:06:49.760
them for the department. Then you have to assess

01:06:49.760 --> 01:06:52.820
them. And my thing was like, it was great because

01:06:52.820 --> 01:06:54.500
I got to see kind of like what you're talking

01:06:54.500 --> 01:06:56.380
about. Like you see Jen, Jen Z coming in, but

01:06:56.380 --> 01:06:59.039
you also see people who have retired from other

01:06:59.039 --> 01:07:01.619
careers and they're applying for police work.

01:07:01.679 --> 01:07:03.539
Cause they're like, Hey, I've done my career

01:07:03.539 --> 01:07:06.010
and whatever. You know, I've been an electrician

01:07:06.010 --> 01:07:08.150
or I've been whatever. Now I want to try this

01:07:08.150 --> 01:07:09.889
police thing. And they're in great shape. And

01:07:09.889 --> 01:07:12.309
hey, cool, let's do it. But it was interesting

01:07:12.309 --> 01:07:15.389
because at the end, you give them a chance. Hey,

01:07:15.510 --> 01:07:18.949
ask us, you know, information. And each of us

01:07:18.949 --> 01:07:21.150
would tell them our background. So, of course,

01:07:21.170 --> 01:07:22.710
when I tell them, hey, my background's gangs

01:07:22.710 --> 01:07:26.289
and homicide, the really like motivated crime

01:07:26.289 --> 01:07:28.610
fighters would start hammering me with questions.

01:07:28.650 --> 01:07:30.820
And I loved it because I could get it. answer

01:07:30.820 --> 01:07:32.760
them like, Hey, this is what the department offers

01:07:32.760 --> 01:07:36.719
that others don't, you know, but I don't ever

01:07:36.719 --> 01:07:40.920
remember anybody asking about, Hey, how do we

01:07:40.920 --> 01:07:43.519
make more money? Hey, how can we, it was always

01:07:43.519 --> 01:07:48.019
what assignments can I work up to or how do I,

01:07:48.099 --> 01:07:50.139
what's the fast track to becoming a detective?

01:07:50.380 --> 01:07:54.860
I want to be a detective. Um, and basically,

01:07:54.920 --> 01:07:57.880
am I going to get the best training? You all,

01:07:57.880 --> 01:08:01.199
you all kind of, um, your ads and commercials

01:08:01.199 --> 01:08:03.320
and sales pitches that you've got one of the

01:08:03.320 --> 01:08:07.460
best academies on the East Coast. And so as time

01:08:07.460 --> 01:08:11.039
went on and there was a lot more push on that

01:08:11.039 --> 01:08:13.440
emphasis through social media and I think recruiting

01:08:13.440 --> 01:08:16.319
ads or whatever, the applicants were saying that

01:08:16.319 --> 01:08:18.859
like, hey, I like that your academy is twice

01:08:18.859 --> 01:08:21.619
as long as other academies. And when it started

01:08:21.619 --> 01:08:24.159
clicking, they were sick of seeing news stories

01:08:24.159 --> 01:08:29.350
about officers or, you know. TikTok videos and

01:08:29.350 --> 01:08:33.329
stuff of officers doing things. And then all

01:08:33.329 --> 01:08:35.869
the comments in there are that officer should

01:08:35.869 --> 01:08:38.529
have never done that, you know, refer to whatever

01:08:38.529 --> 01:08:40.829
Terry versus Ohio with a frisk, you know, he,

01:08:40.909 --> 01:08:42.829
he shouldn't have done the frisk, whatever it

01:08:42.829 --> 01:08:45.890
is. And so this, that generation is starting

01:08:45.890 --> 01:08:49.949
to learn the more training I get, the less chance

01:08:49.949 --> 01:08:53.569
of me getting killed or sued or indicted because

01:08:53.569 --> 01:08:56.010
I do the wrong thing. And I thought that was

01:08:56.010 --> 01:08:58.939
pretty cool. Because there was a time where a

01:08:58.939 --> 01:09:01.079
lot of police academies were scaling back all

01:09:01.079 --> 01:09:03.199
their training because it cost so much. I was

01:09:03.199 --> 01:09:05.840
fortunate. My department was like, hey, we're

01:09:05.840 --> 01:09:07.880
kind of hard -headed. We're going to train the

01:09:07.880 --> 01:09:10.399
hell out of you. And we're even going to push

01:09:10.399 --> 01:09:12.680
it into more stuff, into like simunitions training,

01:09:12.859 --> 01:09:16.420
scenario training. But that's a great recruiting

01:09:16.420 --> 01:09:19.180
tool if people aren't using it. That's another

01:09:19.180 --> 01:09:22.659
way a department shows the applicants, hey, we

01:09:22.659 --> 01:09:24.840
care. We're actually spending money on your training.

01:09:25.260 --> 01:09:27.260
You know, when you when you go through firearms

01:09:27.260 --> 01:09:29.300
training, you're going to get two full weeks,

01:09:29.420 --> 01:09:31.399
you know, or you're going to go through scenario

01:09:31.399 --> 01:09:36.340
based training with full blown role playing officers

01:09:36.340 --> 01:09:40.500
in full gear in rooms that are fully furnished.

01:09:40.720 --> 01:09:42.340
And we're going to film it. We're going to study

01:09:42.340 --> 01:09:44.039
it. You know, you're going to get shot with some

01:09:44.039 --> 01:09:46.640
munitions, but you're going to understand. Shoot,

01:09:46.760 --> 01:09:48.680
don't shoot. And then how to react. I mean, just

01:09:48.680 --> 01:09:51.380
those are great sales pitches. And that doesn't

01:09:51.380 --> 01:09:53.420
have to be one hundred thousand dollar signables.

01:09:54.890 --> 01:09:57.470
When I worked for Anaheim in California, they

01:09:57.470 --> 01:10:01.449
were revered in the area. And again, that was

01:10:01.449 --> 01:10:03.170
where I was testing against a thousand people

01:10:03.170 --> 01:10:05.609
that were already certified. Resumes were fat

01:10:05.609 --> 01:10:07.470
with all the certs that you needed and then some.

01:10:08.569 --> 01:10:11.310
No one ever left. When I moved back to the East

01:10:11.310 --> 01:10:13.789
Coast and I did a practice CPAP, which is a physical

01:10:13.789 --> 01:10:16.970
test that we do, the guys were dumbfounded. They're

01:10:16.970 --> 01:10:18.710
like, we've never met anyone that's left Anaheim

01:10:18.710 --> 01:10:21.470
fire before. But I was literally relocating to

01:10:21.470 --> 01:10:25.189
the East Coast. So that's why I did. They would

01:10:25.189 --> 01:10:29.050
cut 25 % of every class that they hired, academy

01:10:29.050 --> 01:10:31.829
class, by the end of the probationary year through

01:10:31.829 --> 01:10:34.829
attrition. The bar was there. It's up to you.

01:10:34.850 --> 01:10:39.109
You reach it or you don't. And that had people

01:10:39.109 --> 01:10:41.949
lining up around the door. They wanted that challenge.

01:10:42.050 --> 01:10:43.890
They wanted to be held at a high standard. We

01:10:43.890 --> 01:10:45.750
didn't even have fitness standards in the department

01:10:45.750 --> 01:10:48.560
because it was a culture of fitness. And we just

01:10:48.560 --> 01:10:50.479
we worked out all the time and we played sports

01:10:50.479 --> 01:10:52.699
and we ate well. And, you know, that's just how

01:10:52.699 --> 01:10:54.840
the whole entire thing, the people that led most

01:10:54.840 --> 01:10:56.960
of the trainings were the firefighters and the

01:10:56.960 --> 01:10:59.720
engineers and some of the captains because they

01:10:59.720 --> 01:11:01.979
were trusted. You know, you were so well trained

01:11:01.979 --> 01:11:04.140
by the end of that first year and then it never

01:11:04.140 --> 01:11:05.859
stopped. You know, you were just held to that

01:11:05.859 --> 01:11:08.840
bar. Conversely, the last place I worked at,

01:11:08.920 --> 01:11:11.460
they didn't even put you through fire training.

01:11:11.840 --> 01:11:13.939
They didn't do anything to see if you were a

01:11:13.939 --> 01:11:17.140
turd or you were a rock star. You went around

01:11:17.140 --> 01:11:19.039
the theme park, you rode rides, you filled in

01:11:19.039 --> 01:11:22.039
admin paperwork, and then off you go. And they

01:11:22.039 --> 01:11:25.399
struggled to find anyone, even when hiring was

01:11:25.399 --> 01:11:28.159
still in a good place. So I saw it firsthand.

01:11:28.659 --> 01:11:31.859
When you hold that training high and people,

01:11:31.939 --> 01:11:34.140
when they see you wearing that uniform, they're

01:11:34.140 --> 01:11:36.539
like, oh, that's one of the good ones. When you

01:11:36.539 --> 01:11:38.899
show up on a rig and people are glad that you've

01:11:38.899 --> 01:11:41.840
arrived, that's what you want. You can throw

01:11:41.840 --> 01:11:44.520
money and all kinds of shit at people, but the

01:11:44.520 --> 01:11:46.880
real firefighters and the real police officers,

01:11:46.920 --> 01:11:49.020
the ones that want to go to the department, whereas

01:11:49.020 --> 01:11:51.840
you said they're on a mission to reduce crime.

01:11:51.979 --> 01:11:54.800
They're known for, you know, getting rid of gang

01:11:54.800 --> 01:11:57.619
territories and certain whatever it is. That's

01:11:57.619 --> 01:12:00.239
what's going to draw a real first responder to

01:12:00.239 --> 01:12:03.079
the profession. And then you add that to an environment

01:12:03.079 --> 01:12:05.539
that supports you, that gives you good training,

01:12:05.619 --> 01:12:08.060
gives you time off, gives you a salary. You don't

01:12:08.060 --> 01:12:10.539
need a second job. Now you've got the perfect

01:12:10.539 --> 01:12:14.920
storm. Yeah. When you talked about the academy,

01:12:15.159 --> 01:12:19.979
it's funny. When I was at UPS in college, eventually

01:12:19.979 --> 01:12:22.920
I worked my way up to recruiting and interviewing

01:12:22.920 --> 01:12:26.899
and hiring. And so because it's a private company,

01:12:27.079 --> 01:12:30.380
everything's dollar amount. And so whoever you

01:12:30.380 --> 01:12:32.880
hired, they were an investment. So I would have

01:12:32.880 --> 01:12:36.000
to weekly, you know, I'm a full -time college

01:12:36.000 --> 01:12:38.079
student. And then the evenings I'm working at

01:12:38.079 --> 01:12:42.300
UPS. move up in the supervisor role, I'm having

01:12:42.300 --> 01:12:45.300
to sit in a meeting and justify every person

01:12:45.300 --> 01:12:47.819
I hire for UPS. And at the time, I was hiring

01:12:47.819 --> 01:12:51.760
like 25 to 30 people a week. And the shift was

01:12:51.760 --> 01:12:55.640
only about 180 people. So they were losing a

01:12:55.640 --> 01:12:58.819
lot of money because of turnover. And it was,

01:12:58.819 --> 01:13:02.960
without boring you, but there's a template I

01:13:02.960 --> 01:13:06.279
had figured out for the right applicant. And

01:13:06.279 --> 01:13:08.819
I started killing it when I was hiring people.

01:13:09.470 --> 01:13:12.569
Because I was figuring out my applicants coming

01:13:12.569 --> 01:13:15.750
in won't part -time work, but they want that

01:13:15.750 --> 01:13:18.010
tuition reimbursement. You know, UPS will pay

01:13:18.010 --> 01:13:19.810
for a certain portion of your college. You've

01:13:19.810 --> 01:13:23.090
got health benefits. So I filled in, I started

01:13:23.090 --> 01:13:25.569
filling in that bracket and asking some questions

01:13:25.569 --> 01:13:27.949
too that weeded people out. Like when you ask

01:13:27.949 --> 01:13:30.470
somebody, hey, what's the hardest job you've

01:13:30.470 --> 01:13:35.710
ever done? And they go, uh, I don't know. Like

01:13:35.710 --> 01:13:38.979
this would be my first job. And in anybody who's

01:13:38.979 --> 01:13:41.600
never worked at UPS, dude, it's a freaking meat

01:13:41.600 --> 01:13:43.680
grinder. Like you're in the back of these trucks

01:13:43.680 --> 01:13:47.359
that are probably about 100 to 120 degrees down

01:13:47.359 --> 01:13:49.880
here, at least in the South. And you're just

01:13:49.880 --> 01:13:52.220
moving packages the whole time. But it's a great

01:13:52.220 --> 01:13:55.920
job for college, for benefits, all that. But

01:13:55.920 --> 01:13:57.380
man, I would find these people that would come

01:13:57.380 --> 01:14:00.720
in. I work construction for a year or two. You

01:14:00.720 --> 01:14:02.960
know, now I'm in a community college. I want

01:14:02.960 --> 01:14:05.460
the tuition reimbursement. All right, cool. And

01:14:05.460 --> 01:14:07.039
then they hire them and they're great. So when

01:14:07.039 --> 01:14:08.500
I would go in these meetings, I would have to

01:14:08.500 --> 01:14:11.739
justify who I was hiring. In the police world,

01:14:11.899 --> 01:14:15.939
when I got hired on with a bunch of people, I

01:14:15.939 --> 01:14:19.479
think our academy was like 35 people. But they

01:14:19.479 --> 01:14:22.560
hire you before the academy ever starts. Your

01:14:22.560 --> 01:14:25.220
time starts the day you get hired towards your

01:14:25.220 --> 01:14:27.779
retirement. So I had three or four months with

01:14:27.779 --> 01:14:29.560
the department before I ever went to the academy.

01:14:30.390 --> 01:14:32.609
And they send you out to the firing range to

01:14:32.609 --> 01:14:35.949
pick up shell casings or cut grass or file reports

01:14:35.949 --> 01:14:38.029
back then, whatever. It's like busy work. Either

01:14:38.029 --> 01:14:41.850
way, we all got to know one another through this

01:14:41.850 --> 01:14:45.590
assignment, and then you start the academy. And

01:14:45.590 --> 01:14:49.130
the last day we were pre -hires before that academy

01:14:49.130 --> 01:14:52.409
started, we could hear the recruiters making

01:14:52.409 --> 01:14:55.850
bets on who was going to fail. And it burned

01:14:55.850 --> 01:14:58.890
me up. I mean, I was pretty mature at that age,

01:14:58.909 --> 01:15:02.140
but I was like, So these police recruiters are

01:15:02.140 --> 01:15:04.359
hiring people they know are not going to wash

01:15:04.359 --> 01:15:06.979
out in the academy, or at least they're banking

01:15:06.979 --> 01:15:10.079
on it. And in my mind, I pictured the police

01:15:10.079 --> 01:15:12.720
recruiters to be the same as I was at UPS. You

01:15:12.720 --> 01:15:14.979
have to go in and tell the chief what a great

01:15:14.979 --> 01:15:17.779
applicant you just hired, not, hey, this is some

01:15:17.779 --> 01:15:20.420
scrub off the street. But the attrition rate

01:15:20.420 --> 01:15:25.600
was probably about 33 % to 40%. And I equated

01:15:25.600 --> 01:15:28.039
it to numbers from UPS. I'm like, why are they

01:15:28.039 --> 01:15:31.050
hiring people? that they think are not or they're

01:15:31.050 --> 01:15:32.829
banking on they're not going to make it or they

01:15:32.829 --> 01:15:35.489
don't feel confident. And then I started seeing

01:15:35.489 --> 01:15:38.829
the recruiters at that time were not being assessed

01:15:38.829 --> 01:15:41.989
on who was graduating the academy. They were

01:15:41.989 --> 01:15:45.250
just being assessed on, can you fill this class

01:15:45.250 --> 01:15:50.210
with X number of people? So the more people that

01:15:50.210 --> 01:15:52.989
were getting rejected, the harder they had to

01:15:52.989 --> 01:15:55.010
work. And so it's just one of those things where.

01:15:55.789 --> 01:15:57.930
We would see people, and I knew it early on in

01:15:57.930 --> 01:16:01.189
the academy. I'm like, there's no way this person

01:16:01.189 --> 01:16:03.689
who's having trouble doing pushups right now

01:16:03.689 --> 01:16:06.310
is ever going to make it in this academy. So

01:16:06.310 --> 01:16:07.909
that should have been weeded out in the interview

01:16:07.909 --> 01:16:10.430
process. And so it was like one of those things

01:16:10.430 --> 01:16:13.449
where a buddy of mine eventually becomes an instructor

01:16:13.449 --> 01:16:15.569
at the academy because all our stuff was in -house.

01:16:15.670 --> 01:16:18.689
So like you said, you keep all your knowledge

01:16:18.689 --> 01:16:22.489
in -house. So as people learn these trades, they

01:16:22.489 --> 01:16:26.310
become specialized. portion of the academy i

01:16:26.310 --> 01:16:28.449
would teach just for one day but they gave me

01:16:28.449 --> 01:16:30.649
eight hours to teach all the gang this gang stuff

01:16:30.649 --> 01:16:33.229
for entry level coming out of the academy but

01:16:33.229 --> 01:16:36.569
my buddy became like a cadre member there and

01:16:36.569 --> 01:16:38.689
so i asked him like man we're getting killed

01:16:38.689 --> 01:16:42.250
out here on patrol why why is it that they just

01:16:42.250 --> 01:16:45.649
can't feel the the staff like the um academies

01:16:45.649 --> 01:16:49.170
and he said one the recruiters were starting

01:16:49.170 --> 01:16:52.029
to be assessed i think as who for who they hire

01:16:52.670 --> 01:16:55.449
and held accountable if they wash out. And then,

01:16:55.470 --> 01:16:59.149
too, he's like, we don't want more people. We

01:16:59.149 --> 01:17:02.329
know that we need to fill 100 vacancies back

01:17:02.329 --> 01:17:04.710
then or whatever, 80. He's like, but we want

01:17:04.710 --> 01:17:07.470
a solid group. So if you give us only 15 people,

01:17:07.630 --> 01:17:12.670
then we'll work on those 15 all -stars. Don't

01:17:12.670 --> 01:17:15.670
give us 40 people hoping that they might graduate

01:17:15.670 --> 01:17:17.210
and then you know you're going to lose them later.

01:17:17.489 --> 01:17:19.149
So it was kind of that. It was pretty cool to

01:17:19.149 --> 01:17:22.449
see his. From training aspects, he was saying,

01:17:22.550 --> 01:17:25.890
you don't want to do that. Just keep the solid

01:17:25.890 --> 01:17:28.949
people coming in. And we'll keep our standard

01:17:28.949 --> 01:17:34.029
up here. And if they wash out, they wash out.

01:17:34.149 --> 01:17:37.149
But if we hire the right people, chances are

01:17:37.149 --> 01:17:40.210
they'll last. So the attrition rate had changed

01:17:40.210 --> 01:17:42.289
for a little while there. And then, of course,

01:17:42.329 --> 01:17:44.909
around COVID, I think it went through the roof

01:17:44.909 --> 01:17:48.569
just a lot of. A lot of people did not want to

01:17:48.569 --> 01:17:52.250
adapt to screaming, yelling, physical exhaustion

01:17:52.250 --> 01:17:55.010
from exercising all day. Every time you make

01:17:55.010 --> 01:17:59.329
a mistake, you're getting punished. But fortunately,

01:17:59.489 --> 01:18:01.689
our department never went away from that, even

01:18:01.689 --> 01:18:03.449
though everybody else was. It was like, hey,

01:18:03.510 --> 01:18:07.970
this works. You've got to inoculate these recruits

01:18:07.970 --> 01:18:12.229
to verbal abuse, to making fun of how they walk,

01:18:12.270 --> 01:18:13.529
whatever, because people are going to do it on

01:18:13.529 --> 01:18:16.340
the street. And then make their body strong.

01:18:17.500 --> 01:18:18.939
They're going to be strong one way or another.

01:18:19.659 --> 01:18:22.920
And it worked. And like you said, that culture

01:18:22.920 --> 01:18:26.359
of it, when you graduate, most of the time people

01:18:26.359 --> 01:18:28.819
stayed in shape because you look left and right

01:18:28.819 --> 01:18:31.100
and you're like, all right. And even when I started

01:18:31.100 --> 01:18:32.880
getting heavy, my buddies would be like, you're

01:18:32.880 --> 01:18:37.279
a fat ass. You need to hear that though. Oh,

01:18:37.300 --> 01:18:39.199
yeah. It's going to save your life and someone

01:18:39.199 --> 01:18:41.159
else's life. That's the point. You're not a plumber.

01:18:41.300 --> 01:18:44.750
Yeah. Yeah, I had no problems with my buddies

01:18:44.750 --> 01:18:47.069
checking me like that. And they were right. And

01:18:47.069 --> 01:18:50.270
man, it's like that slope, dude. Once it starts

01:18:50.270 --> 01:18:52.670
going and you're doing shift work and you start

01:18:52.670 --> 01:18:55.210
eating terribly and you cut back on exercise

01:18:55.210 --> 01:18:59.590
and depending on the assignment. Fortunately,

01:18:59.789 --> 01:19:03.130
when I was on patrol or on gang suppression stuff,

01:19:03.310 --> 01:19:06.210
usually I was in shape. So you could still catch

01:19:06.210 --> 01:19:08.289
people. That was the thing. If you couldn't catch

01:19:08.289 --> 01:19:10.569
somebody in a foot pursuit, you'd have to put

01:19:10.569 --> 01:19:13.149
your name on this. board that we called the shoe

01:19:13.149 --> 01:19:16.789
of shame you know so your name had to go up and

01:19:16.789 --> 01:19:19.789
the date that you lost that foot pursuit so like

01:19:19.789 --> 01:19:22.369
on patrol you come in and it was a bronze it

01:19:22.369 --> 01:19:25.930
was like a spray painted um police boot you know

01:19:25.930 --> 01:19:28.250
like the uh somebody i don't remember who did

01:19:28.250 --> 01:19:30.729
it but they spray painted it gold and screwed

01:19:30.729 --> 01:19:33.810
it into his wooden plaque and then yeah i don't

01:19:33.810 --> 01:19:35.390
know in a year you'd probably have a hundred

01:19:35.390 --> 01:19:39.289
people up there that lost foot pursuits but nobody

01:19:39.289 --> 01:19:41.890
wanted to go on the shoe of shame so that was

01:19:41.890 --> 01:19:43.810
kind of like that motivation too like all right

01:19:43.810 --> 01:19:47.210
i need to step up my game or you know uh figure

01:19:47.210 --> 01:19:49.949
out the shortcuts from this apartment to this

01:19:49.949 --> 01:19:51.850
apartment because when i lose foot pursuits it's

01:19:51.850 --> 01:19:54.250
always like somewhere in this cut so i'm gonna

01:19:54.250 --> 01:19:57.409
start running the cut and training up so that

01:19:57.409 --> 01:19:59.909
whenever they do run i already know which way

01:19:59.909 --> 01:20:02.409
they're gonna go and stuff it's the games you

01:20:02.409 --> 01:20:05.710
play to to win out there but there's nothing

01:20:05.710 --> 01:20:08.520
wrong with telling a co -worker hey you're getting

01:20:08.520 --> 01:20:11.920
fat and slow. And like you say, like, Hey, if

01:20:11.920 --> 01:20:14.220
I'm, if I'm down and I need you to pick me up

01:20:14.220 --> 01:20:15.979
and carry me to the car, at least and get me

01:20:15.979 --> 01:20:18.119
to the hospital, I need you to do that, you know,

01:20:18.119 --> 01:20:21.279
in a serious note, but usually like kind of busting

01:20:21.279 --> 01:20:23.979
chops and, you know, telling somebody like, Hey,

01:20:24.000 --> 01:20:27.079
put that honey bun down, you know, like, I love

01:20:27.079 --> 01:20:29.300
you, buddy, but I don't need you to be, you know,

01:20:29.319 --> 01:20:31.720
as big as you are. Yeah. I don't think that's

01:20:31.720 --> 01:20:35.720
a bad thing. No. I posted this quite a few years

01:20:35.720 --> 01:20:38.279
ago now, but I was doing sled work at the station

01:20:38.279 --> 01:20:42.479
and I worked my way up to what our heaviest firefighter

01:20:42.479 --> 01:20:45.560
plus his gear would weigh and be able to basically

01:20:45.560 --> 01:20:49.140
push and drag that. I would effectively be able

01:20:49.140 --> 01:20:51.479
to get that person out of a fire. I remember

01:20:51.479 --> 01:20:54.039
making the post saying, I've trained to be able

01:20:54.039 --> 01:20:56.500
to get our heaviest firefighter out of a fire.

01:20:56.560 --> 01:20:58.720
The question is, would he be able to drag me?

01:20:59.399 --> 01:21:02.859
And it's a sobering reminder. Absolute sweetheart,

01:21:03.039 --> 01:21:05.420
the person I was thinking of. But physically,

01:21:05.539 --> 01:21:08.380
would they? Or you're in gear, you've got stress,

01:21:08.619 --> 01:21:11.420
or would you tap out? And now the person that

01:21:11.420 --> 01:21:13.920
you love, a brother, now burns up in a fire or

01:21:13.920 --> 01:21:17.220
bleeds out on a shooting scene. So there's all

01:21:17.220 --> 01:21:19.000
this kind of, oh, we've got to be careful with

01:21:19.000 --> 01:21:22.420
their feelings. I say no, that's fucking bullshit.

01:21:22.699 --> 01:21:26.340
If you were installing curtains for a living

01:21:26.340 --> 01:21:30.369
and you mess up a curtain rod, No one dies. You

01:21:30.369 --> 01:21:32.390
know, if you're a barista and you put two shots

01:21:32.390 --> 01:21:35.289
of coffee instead of a decaf, you know, OK, maybe

01:21:35.289 --> 01:21:36.890
they might have a cardiac issue. But apart from

01:21:36.890 --> 01:21:40.590
that, no one's going to die. But when a cop isn't

01:21:40.590 --> 01:21:42.550
able to do their job, when a firefighter isn't

01:21:42.550 --> 01:21:45.510
able to do their job, they could die. Their partner

01:21:45.510 --> 01:21:47.510
could die or the people we went to protect could

01:21:47.510 --> 01:21:50.470
die. So you don't have the right to be all like,

01:21:50.569 --> 01:21:53.590
oh, that's fat shaming. No, the standard was

01:21:53.590 --> 01:21:56.680
set in the academy. There was no fucking. miss

01:21:56.680 --> 01:21:59.079
you know mixed messaging about what you're expected

01:21:59.079 --> 01:22:01.479
to do this is the gear you're going to wear these

01:22:01.479 --> 01:22:03.039
are the number of stairs you're going to have

01:22:03.039 --> 01:22:05.619
to go up with hose with air bottles now you're

01:22:05.619 --> 01:22:06.960
going to have to chop you're going to have to

01:22:06.960 --> 01:22:10.180
do the combat challenge or the c -pat that was

01:22:10.180 --> 01:22:12.880
at the front door and in in our profession it's

01:22:12.880 --> 01:22:15.659
called minimum standards or certification so

01:22:15.659 --> 01:22:17.420
it's labeled this is the shittiest you should

01:22:17.420 --> 01:22:20.060
ever be in your whole fucking career and then

01:22:20.060 --> 01:22:22.369
you get in And they're like, where are the fitness

01:22:22.369 --> 01:22:24.109
standards? Oh, they're trying to take our jobs.

01:22:24.109 --> 01:22:26.289
We have no fitness standards. And then you see

01:22:26.289 --> 01:22:29.090
this devolution, which results in not only diminished

01:22:29.090 --> 01:22:32.409
performance and sometimes hilarious YouTube videos,

01:22:32.409 --> 01:22:35.970
but on the serious side, it results in exactly

01:22:35.970 --> 01:22:38.289
what we talked about earlier in these people

01:22:38.289 --> 01:22:40.890
dying even before they ever retire or within

01:22:40.890 --> 01:22:43.949
a few short years after. And that is the result

01:22:43.949 --> 01:22:47.920
of this, you know, resistance towards. Making

01:22:47.920 --> 01:22:50.520
fitness an absolutely imperative element. And

01:22:50.520 --> 01:22:52.479
then I just posted this morning, I think in your

01:22:52.479 --> 01:22:55.920
profession, jujitsu, judo, wrestling, whatever

01:22:55.920 --> 01:22:59.060
your hands on grappling are is that should be

01:22:59.060 --> 01:23:01.239
an absolute essential part of law enforcement,

01:23:01.340 --> 01:23:04.819
too. Yeah, that that's probably one of those

01:23:04.819 --> 01:23:09.279
things that was was maybe slower to take off,

01:23:09.340 --> 01:23:13.060
you know, changing tactics, arrest techniques,

01:23:13.420 --> 01:23:20.369
control techniques and. It's amazing to me now

01:23:20.369 --> 01:23:23.390
to be able to pick up my phone, pull up Instagram

01:23:23.390 --> 01:23:27.170
or whatever, and look at people posting videos

01:23:27.170 --> 01:23:29.670
saying, hey, this is how we use a two -person

01:23:29.670 --> 01:23:32.050
control takedown. This is how we do this and

01:23:32.050 --> 01:23:37.989
that. Also, it keeps people in shape. Back to

01:23:37.989 --> 01:23:44.149
the fat shaming and stuff. My thing is I knew

01:23:44.149 --> 01:23:46.729
my buddies loved me. That was the difference.

01:23:47.310 --> 01:23:51.090
And I knew where it came from. So the same thing

01:23:51.090 --> 01:23:55.329
happened in the homicide world. Like I said,

01:23:55.350 --> 01:23:58.409
you see different units. So I was like on the

01:23:58.409 --> 01:24:01.930
gang unit or when I was on FBI task force. So

01:24:01.930 --> 01:24:05.689
one of my buddies, um, and he was my cohost on

01:24:05.689 --> 01:24:08.250
the disruptors podcast. I did, it used to be

01:24:08.250 --> 01:24:11.489
called the disruptors of BC and ski. Well, ski

01:24:11.489 --> 01:24:13.510
and I would actually, we were gang suppression

01:24:13.510 --> 01:24:16.010
unit and then we worked FBI task force together.

01:24:16.829 --> 01:24:20.270
And when I was on the task force with him or

01:24:20.270 --> 01:24:23.590
assigned to him, that was kind of the running

01:24:23.590 --> 01:24:26.810
joke. He's like, man, you got fat. And I was

01:24:26.810 --> 01:24:29.029
like, yeah, you're right, dude. And so it was

01:24:29.029 --> 01:24:33.369
like he picked an exercise every day. And he'd

01:24:33.369 --> 01:24:35.590
be like, all right, we got to do 100 squats or

01:24:35.590 --> 01:24:37.930
you got to do 100 pushups. And it was like, just

01:24:37.930 --> 01:24:40.449
I don't care if it takes five pushups at a time.

01:24:40.770 --> 01:24:43.109
Let's knock them all out before the end of the

01:24:43.109 --> 01:24:45.590
shift. And this went on just for a little while.

01:24:46.199 --> 01:24:48.100
And all I needed was just a jump start. I was

01:24:48.100 --> 01:24:50.479
like, yeah, let me get back into it. And so then

01:24:50.479 --> 01:24:52.680
in the morning, I'm out running and sending him

01:24:52.680 --> 01:24:54.500
a text. And I remember one morning, it's like

01:24:54.500 --> 01:24:57.859
40 degrees or something outside. And that's pretty

01:24:57.859 --> 01:25:00.119
cold in the South. And sending him a text like,

01:25:00.220 --> 01:25:02.439
hey, dude, I'm knocking out to run now. You know,

01:25:02.500 --> 01:25:05.680
I'll be in around seven or whatever. And he said,

01:25:05.859 --> 01:25:08.319
because I've got an addictive personality. That's

01:25:08.319 --> 01:25:10.359
why I don't drink or do any drugs. I never got

01:25:10.359 --> 01:25:12.399
into it when I was a little kid. Like, I kind

01:25:12.399 --> 01:25:14.199
of knew if I liked something, I want to do it

01:25:14.199 --> 01:25:17.460
100%. And so same thing then, like, you know,

01:25:17.460 --> 01:25:20.640
just got back into really good shape and for

01:25:20.640 --> 01:25:24.359
the most part stayed that way. And you have a

01:25:24.359 --> 01:25:26.579
few hiccups here and there. But it's just one

01:25:26.579 --> 01:25:30.840
of those things that that aspect can never change,

01:25:30.920 --> 01:25:32.840
in my mind, can never change in police work.

01:25:33.000 --> 01:25:37.420
There has to be. And I think that for the most

01:25:37.420 --> 01:25:40.260
part, because you're dealing with people who

01:25:40.260 --> 01:25:42.020
tell you no on the street or people who just

01:25:42.020 --> 01:25:45.060
flat out say. I'll put you in the fucking ground,

01:25:45.159 --> 01:25:47.039
man. You know what I mean? Like, I will fucking

01:25:47.039 --> 01:25:54.199
kill you. Or, you know, I mean, anyway, there

01:25:54.199 --> 01:25:57.260
was a case where a prosecutor's father was kidnapped

01:25:57.260 --> 01:26:00.260
by blood gang members and taken to another state.

01:26:00.439 --> 01:26:04.579
Like, it's legit. Stuff goes on. And it was in

01:26:04.579 --> 01:26:09.939
our area. So it's this idea of being very confident

01:26:09.939 --> 01:26:13.060
in what you do. and walking the street and knowing

01:26:13.060 --> 01:26:17.899
I'm proficient with my hands, my weapons, my

01:26:17.899 --> 01:26:21.399
communication skills, like we will be on the

01:26:21.399 --> 01:26:24.600
winning end on every aspect of this. And a lot

01:26:24.600 --> 01:26:28.359
of that is stamina, physical stamina. Like you,

01:26:28.399 --> 01:26:29.760
you heard me talking about like foot pursuits

01:26:29.760 --> 01:26:33.079
and stuff. That was the ego thing for us joking

01:26:33.079 --> 01:26:34.520
around. Like you didn't want to be on the shoe

01:26:34.520 --> 01:26:36.479
of shame. Everybody knew what it meant at the

01:26:36.479 --> 01:26:39.399
end of the day, you chase someone and you get

01:26:39.399 --> 01:26:41.470
in the back of a cut. Like when I say cut, like

01:26:41.470 --> 01:26:45.770
the the short paths that that people will take

01:26:45.770 --> 01:26:48.310
between apartment complexes or from a corner

01:26:48.310 --> 01:26:51.670
store back to, you know, a trap house or something.

01:26:52.210 --> 01:26:54.710
You know, you look at your landscape on patrol

01:26:54.710 --> 01:26:57.229
or, you know, on a gang unit or whatever, and

01:26:57.229 --> 01:27:00.909
you look where these trails are. And that's the

01:27:00.909 --> 01:27:02.729
deal. It's like going into the black hole. You

01:27:02.729 --> 01:27:04.350
chase somebody in there and you're calling the

01:27:04.350 --> 01:27:07.890
radio. If your colleagues don't know what cut

01:27:07.890 --> 01:27:10.760
you're talking about. you're going to no man's

01:27:10.760 --> 01:27:13.340
land and it's dark and there's no street lights.

01:27:13.399 --> 01:27:15.159
And that's why people take those shortcuts through

01:27:15.159 --> 01:27:18.619
there and in the fight zone. And so it's one

01:27:18.619 --> 01:27:22.800
of those things where the use of force continuum

01:27:22.800 --> 01:27:25.319
is there. You always have to try to control your

01:27:25.319 --> 01:27:29.319
emotions, check your ego, but everybody knew

01:27:29.319 --> 01:27:32.600
like that's go time and you're, you're going

01:27:32.600 --> 01:27:35.199
to survive. Right. And you have to have that

01:27:35.199 --> 01:27:37.880
mindset and we joke a lot. And that's why we

01:27:37.880 --> 01:27:44.199
joke. was to deal with that. The same way you

01:27:44.199 --> 01:27:47.399
watch what one human being does to another in

01:27:47.399 --> 01:27:50.560
the homicide world, or even what they do to themselves,

01:27:50.979 --> 01:27:54.399
working, you know, suicide to completion, and

01:27:54.399 --> 01:27:58.579
you're going, who would have ever thought that

01:27:58.579 --> 01:28:01.939
a 12 gauge would do this? You know, we're picking

01:28:01.939 --> 01:28:06.380
up brain matter all over the upper floor of a

01:28:06.380 --> 01:28:12.220
house, you know, or what 7 .62 does when it goes

01:28:12.220 --> 01:28:14.180
through a window and into a four -year -old's

01:28:14.180 --> 01:28:17.960
head. And you work that and you're sitting there

01:28:17.960 --> 01:28:21.119
for hours and hours and hours dealing with this

01:28:21.119 --> 01:28:26.520
stuff. And sometimes you just got to poke fun

01:28:26.520 --> 01:28:29.119
at your coworkers. You know what I mean? Like

01:28:29.119 --> 01:28:32.539
away from everybody else in order so that your

01:28:32.539 --> 01:28:35.760
brain can feel good for a minute. And that I

01:28:35.760 --> 01:28:38.100
think that gets misconstrued. And a lot of times

01:28:38.100 --> 01:28:42.119
people talk about whatever they call a dark humor,

01:28:42.199 --> 01:28:44.960
stuff like that with police, fire and hospitals

01:28:44.960 --> 01:28:49.140
and stuff. But our brains will do their best

01:28:49.140 --> 01:28:53.119
to protect us. And that that was my thing was

01:28:53.119 --> 01:28:56.520
like, I love to laugh and I know I have to be

01:28:56.520 --> 01:28:59.819
able to laugh. And when you get knee deep in

01:28:59.819 --> 01:29:04.060
this stuff and. You're working a homicide and

01:29:04.060 --> 01:29:08.039
if it is family versus family, it's horrible.

01:29:08.180 --> 01:29:10.399
And then you're trying to wrap your brain around

01:29:10.399 --> 01:29:16.579
violence between a son and mother, which we kind

01:29:16.579 --> 01:29:20.159
of saw a spike in that coming out of COVID, which

01:29:20.159 --> 01:29:24.420
is a little bit of an eye opener. It's horrendous,

01:29:24.439 --> 01:29:30.329
but the brain and laughing and humor. and poking

01:29:30.329 --> 01:29:33.850
fun at people that you work with. I just, I want

01:29:33.850 --> 01:29:37.189
people in outside environments to understand

01:29:37.189 --> 01:29:40.069
that's a defense mechanism. And that's the way

01:29:40.069 --> 01:29:43.909
we kind of keep from losing our minds, uh, dealing

01:29:43.909 --> 01:29:47.930
with it. And so, yeah, I, I'm the nicest, funniest

01:29:47.930 --> 01:29:49.609
guy in the world. I would never, ever want to

01:29:49.609 --> 01:29:52.630
hurt someone else's feelings that I don't, especially

01:29:52.630 --> 01:29:55.069
like that. I don't know. And if they're friends

01:29:55.069 --> 01:29:56.310
of mine, I don't want to hurt their feelings,

01:29:56.350 --> 01:30:00.270
but if their coworker is like, It's it's game

01:30:00.270 --> 01:30:03.489
on, you know, but but that's love. That's the

01:30:03.489 --> 01:30:06.090
way that's the way you kind of get through the

01:30:06.090 --> 01:30:10.130
day and bond and have fun with that. So I hope

01:30:10.130 --> 01:30:11.970
everybody kind of experiences that because it

01:30:11.970 --> 01:30:15.430
can be tough working those jobs and not laughing

01:30:15.430 --> 01:30:17.550
and joking or not being able to laugh and joke

01:30:17.550 --> 01:30:19.750
at yourself, you know, poke fun or whatever.

01:30:21.109 --> 01:30:24.850
I don't know. I just I think humor is is a wonderful

01:30:24.850 --> 01:30:28.310
tool that we have and we live. You know, in an

01:30:28.310 --> 01:30:30.409
American society where we have freedom to be

01:30:30.409 --> 01:30:33.369
able to do that and to pick and choose the jobs

01:30:33.369 --> 01:30:36.829
that we want and to pursue that. I think that's

01:30:36.829 --> 01:30:39.949
an amazing thing. I giggle and laugh a lot, man,

01:30:40.010 --> 01:30:45.109
but I can't overstate the power of humor. And

01:30:45.109 --> 01:30:48.130
if people are doing these jobs and they don't

01:30:48.130 --> 01:30:52.329
find themselves laughing a whole lot. Like find

01:30:52.329 --> 01:30:55.890
a co -worker and laugh, like figure it out or

01:30:55.890 --> 01:30:58.739
just realize. It's okay to laugh at yourself

01:30:58.739 --> 01:31:01.899
too. I'm a goofy looking dude, so I have no problems

01:31:01.899 --> 01:31:06.020
nerding it up and laughing. There was a time

01:31:06.020 --> 01:31:10.739
when I saw the motivation in the detective division

01:31:10.739 --> 01:31:16.279
really suffering because of other situations,

01:31:16.479 --> 01:31:18.699
what society was going through and all this.

01:31:19.380 --> 01:31:23.800
I was like, man. I didn't always want to joke

01:31:23.800 --> 01:31:25.039
because I didn't know what other people were

01:31:25.039 --> 01:31:27.340
going through at the time. And so I just started

01:31:27.340 --> 01:31:30.699
cracking a lot of jokes on myself and doing the

01:31:30.699 --> 01:31:33.079
best I could to make certain people laugh because

01:31:33.079 --> 01:31:36.300
I knew they needed it. And so some people go,

01:31:36.520 --> 01:31:39.640
hey, you're a lieutenant. You shouldn't be doing

01:31:39.640 --> 01:31:41.680
that. That's kind of like fraternizing or whatever

01:31:41.680 --> 01:31:45.220
the word is. I'm like, no, you got no clue. That

01:31:45.220 --> 01:31:49.199
dude right there just left a scene where a person

01:31:49.199 --> 01:31:52.680
was eviscerated. So he's having a tough day.

01:31:53.490 --> 01:31:56.069
I'm going to make fun of my black and white vans

01:31:56.069 --> 01:31:57.909
that I'm wearing right now and going to a sock

01:31:57.909 --> 01:31:59.489
hop or something. I don't care. Like I'm going

01:31:59.489 --> 01:32:01.890
to make a joke and hope that they laugh, you

01:32:01.890 --> 01:32:04.670
know, it just, I don't know, kind of rambling,

01:32:04.710 --> 01:32:07.810
but I'm just saying there's power in that. And

01:32:07.810 --> 01:32:10.729
it's okay to make fun of coworkers. If it, at

01:32:10.729 --> 01:32:12.989
the end of the day, it's out of love and definitely

01:32:12.989 --> 01:32:15.729
to help keep them in shape. Cause they'll, they'll

01:32:15.729 --> 01:32:18.930
thank you later for it. Well, I think that underlines

01:32:18.930 --> 01:32:20.710
exactly it. I've talked about this a few times.

01:32:20.829 --> 01:32:24.939
The, um, Fat shaming, the way fat shaming is

01:32:24.939 --> 01:32:28.640
framed, I think is completely wrong. Yes, there

01:32:28.640 --> 01:32:31.859
are some turds out there that mock people for

01:32:31.859 --> 01:32:34.779
being overweight, you know, and there's a lot

01:32:34.779 --> 01:32:37.260
of, you know, we've seen recently there's been

01:32:37.260 --> 01:32:40.819
examples of someone suing Lyft because they didn't

01:32:40.819 --> 01:32:43.119
pick them up when they were physically not able

01:32:43.119 --> 01:32:45.619
to be in that vehicle. That's ridiculous. But

01:32:45.619 --> 01:32:48.939
most of this conversation is coming from a place

01:32:48.939 --> 01:32:51.569
of love. When you are a healthy human being,

01:32:51.670 --> 01:32:54.850
you realize how someone who is obese is being

01:32:54.850 --> 01:32:57.630
robbed of their health, robbed of their lifespan,

01:32:57.989 --> 01:33:01.109
robbed of their ability to play with their kids.

01:33:01.369 --> 01:33:04.529
So this conversation is coming from a place of

01:33:04.529 --> 01:33:07.590
love, but it's being misrepresented. I want to

01:33:07.590 --> 01:33:10.689
shift, though, to what you kind of talked about

01:33:10.689 --> 01:33:12.710
as far as this violence that you saw coming out

01:33:12.710 --> 01:33:14.649
of COVID. I know we spoke about this a few years

01:33:14.649 --> 01:33:18.600
ago. There's this emphasis on why aren't police

01:33:18.600 --> 01:33:20.939
doing enough when it comes to crime? There's

01:33:20.939 --> 01:33:24.039
no narrative whatsoever as to why are American

01:33:24.039 --> 01:33:26.420
streets so dangerous? Why are American schools

01:33:26.420 --> 01:33:28.800
so dangerous? Why are American households so

01:33:28.800 --> 01:33:31.560
dangerous compared to so many places around the

01:33:31.560 --> 01:33:35.739
world? We talked last time about drug prohibition,

01:33:35.760 --> 01:33:40.819
and my true belief is that stopping arresting

01:33:40.819 --> 01:33:43.039
addicts is going to be one of the ways that we

01:33:43.039 --> 01:33:46.090
move forward. Taking a step back even further,

01:33:46.270 --> 01:33:49.890
with this long career that you've had, everything

01:33:49.890 --> 01:33:53.329
from homicide to, as you said, suicide to the

01:33:53.329 --> 01:33:56.630
gangs, what is your perception of the mental

01:33:56.630 --> 01:33:59.850
health crisis in this country and how that's

01:33:59.850 --> 01:34:02.449
actually playing out in many of the tragic scenes

01:34:02.449 --> 01:34:07.149
that you've witnessed? Yeah, we have. You heard

01:34:07.149 --> 01:34:10.250
me mention the device earlier. Everybody, and

01:34:10.250 --> 01:34:14.380
I say everybody. Everybody I ever encountered

01:34:14.380 --> 01:34:19.140
on patrol, or I'm sorry, on Detective Division,

01:34:19.439 --> 01:34:23.380
we'll say within the last 10 years, has a frigging

01:34:23.380 --> 01:34:26.640
device, a phone, two or three sometimes. And

01:34:26.640 --> 01:34:29.239
they've got social media and they can watch the

01:34:29.239 --> 01:34:32.600
world's atrocities at the click of a button.

01:34:33.560 --> 01:34:37.899
Now take that and then couple it with, sometimes,

01:34:38.159 --> 01:34:41.729
and this is the thing. Not all gang members that

01:34:41.729 --> 01:34:46.170
I encountered in my area came from whatever,

01:34:46.350 --> 01:34:51.250
broken homes or single parents. People would

01:34:51.250 --> 01:34:53.590
choose that path, at least here in the South

01:34:53.590 --> 01:34:56.149
on the East Coast. They choose that path for

01:34:56.149 --> 01:34:58.149
different reasons, and we can get into it later

01:34:58.149 --> 01:35:01.949
if you want to. But the mental health crisis,

01:35:02.090 --> 01:35:07.569
I do think a lot of it has to do with us as consumers

01:35:07.569 --> 01:35:12.220
taking in. images over and over and over of things

01:35:12.220 --> 01:35:15.199
that we have no control over. So if I'm very

01:35:15.199 --> 01:35:18.039
empathetic, like when I see people, I feel it.

01:35:18.180 --> 01:35:21.119
I will avoid certain stores. And my wife is the

01:35:21.119 --> 01:35:23.720
same way. Like she and I are about as close as

01:35:23.720 --> 01:35:26.039
you can get to being the same person. We talk

01:35:26.039 --> 01:35:28.920
a lot. We love exercising. We exercise together

01:35:28.920 --> 01:35:32.319
every day. And she and I are both the same way.

01:35:32.359 --> 01:35:34.319
If somebody is depressed, a complete stranger,

01:35:34.640 --> 01:35:37.420
we read their body language. We feel it. And

01:35:37.420 --> 01:35:40.560
then we feel it. And so we don't want to necessarily

01:35:40.560 --> 01:35:44.560
take that in sometimes. So in the gang world

01:35:44.560 --> 01:35:49.340
or city world where violence is increasing and

01:35:49.340 --> 01:35:52.500
schools are becoming, or shit, over the last

01:35:52.500 --> 01:35:55.960
10 years, horrible, absolutely horrible. And

01:35:55.960 --> 01:35:58.260
I'll explain in a minute why schools are that

01:35:58.260 --> 01:36:03.199
way. But you see it on the street. It's like

01:36:03.199 --> 01:36:08.720
an environment you can't escape. if you don't

01:36:08.720 --> 01:36:11.420
escape it. So when guys stand on that block,

01:36:11.520 --> 01:36:14.220
the same block that I talked about earlier, if

01:36:14.220 --> 01:36:17.600
guys stand there at 15 years old, 16, 17, 18,

01:36:17.939 --> 01:36:21.039
nothing changes their trajectory except going

01:36:21.039 --> 01:36:23.640
to prison. And then they come back from prison,

01:36:23.760 --> 01:36:25.619
all they've ever known is hanging out on that

01:36:25.619 --> 01:36:28.640
block or that one apartment complex, and then

01:36:28.640 --> 01:36:31.020
they come back, and then they hang out there.

01:36:31.819 --> 01:36:35.300
But usually by the time they're between 15 and

01:36:35.300 --> 01:36:38.189
21, They have a few kids by different women.

01:36:38.810 --> 01:36:41.710
Now their kids are now growing up in that environment.

01:36:42.250 --> 01:36:46.409
And so the current trend you're seeing with 15

01:36:46.409 --> 01:36:50.390
to 17, 18 year olds, you know, Kia boys stealing

01:36:50.390 --> 01:36:53.590
cars and going on these car chases and all the

01:36:53.590 --> 01:36:55.890
videos and stuff you're seeing with like 16 year

01:36:55.890 --> 01:36:59.850
olds carrying Dracos and chopped up M4s and stuff

01:36:59.850 --> 01:37:02.789
in these cars and just pure chaos in the street.

01:37:04.079 --> 01:37:07.939
Is is part of all of that where a lot of times

01:37:07.939 --> 01:37:11.340
the parents of that first generation or second

01:37:11.340 --> 01:37:13.479
generation of gangs out here in the south and

01:37:13.479 --> 01:37:16.840
east coast and in the other cities are now having

01:37:16.840 --> 01:37:19.619
kids at a at a earlier age, at a younger age.

01:37:20.300 --> 01:37:23.500
And there is because I've talked to gang members

01:37:23.500 --> 01:37:28.619
and they'll tell you, dude, if I can get a girl

01:37:28.619 --> 01:37:32.279
and have a baby, I got a place to stay forever.

01:37:32.880 --> 01:37:35.779
I always got my hook in her. And so that can

01:37:35.779 --> 01:37:38.979
go through abusing Section 8 housing. That can

01:37:38.979 --> 01:37:41.539
go through having as dudes will be like, I got

01:37:41.539 --> 01:37:43.539
a girl out in the county or I got a girl out

01:37:43.539 --> 01:37:46.180
in the suburbs. And these dudes will have two,

01:37:46.279 --> 01:37:49.720
three, four kids by different women. So they

01:37:49.720 --> 01:37:53.680
always can bounce around and kind of live off

01:37:53.680 --> 01:37:56.979
of them without really having to pay their own

01:37:56.979 --> 01:38:00.680
bills, that sort of thing. So we're dealing with

01:38:00.680 --> 01:38:04.310
things now. where kids are getting free reign

01:38:04.310 --> 01:38:07.529
to do whatever they need to do, committing crimes,

01:38:07.670 --> 01:38:13.050
coupled with the movement of reactive policing.

01:38:13.529 --> 01:38:15.329
So these, like I talked about earlier, these

01:38:15.329 --> 01:38:19.210
departments going back to stripping back their

01:38:19.210 --> 01:38:21.909
proactive units, going back to, hey, wait for

01:38:21.909 --> 01:38:24.210
the call to come in of the four guys hanging

01:38:24.210 --> 01:38:27.449
out, shooting a gun, and we'll respond. And then

01:38:27.449 --> 01:38:30.840
that way, if it's a news event. then we were

01:38:30.840 --> 01:38:33.020
just reacting to a 911 call. We didn't go out

01:38:33.020 --> 01:38:35.439
there looking for trouble, which is an absurd

01:38:35.439 --> 01:38:39.800
way to do police work. Coupled with schools,

01:38:40.079 --> 01:38:43.699
a lot of schools, at least that I was being told

01:38:43.699 --> 01:38:48.800
about, were being sued by parents. And at one

01:38:48.800 --> 01:38:52.220
point down here in the South, there was an area

01:38:52.220 --> 01:38:56.520
or jurisdiction that was known for having lawsuits

01:38:56.520 --> 01:38:59.510
filed against the school system. In which the

01:38:59.510 --> 01:39:05.609
argument was the school was suspending black

01:39:05.609 --> 01:39:09.010
teenagers at such a high rate. Therefore, it

01:39:09.010 --> 01:39:13.149
had to be systemic in its reasoning or in its

01:39:13.149 --> 01:39:16.550
logic. And so what school systems are doing is

01:39:16.550 --> 01:39:18.470
they didn't want to have to deal with these lawsuits.

01:39:18.829 --> 01:39:22.069
So they were paying out in settlements. Well,

01:39:22.109 --> 01:39:25.210
that was being told through social media and

01:39:25.210 --> 01:39:28.329
through neighborhoods and stuff. And kids that

01:39:28.329 --> 01:39:29.770
were getting in trouble and getting suspended,

01:39:30.130 --> 01:39:34.010
rightfully so, their families were filing lawsuits

01:39:34.010 --> 01:39:36.949
and then getting money. So it never even went

01:39:36.949 --> 01:39:39.229
to court. So what it really does, it starts to

01:39:39.229 --> 01:39:42.409
reinforce, hey, this kid got in trouble and suspended,

01:39:42.710 --> 01:39:46.270
but it turned into a payday for the family. And

01:39:46.270 --> 01:39:48.550
I was told by two different people at one point,

01:39:48.630 --> 01:39:51.909
an SRO and then a school security specialist.

01:39:52.760 --> 01:39:54.880
And they were fighting that uphill battle. And

01:39:54.880 --> 01:39:56.680
they were like, what we have been doing in the

01:39:56.680 --> 01:40:00.039
past, these two people would come to the gang

01:40:00.039 --> 01:40:03.479
intel meetings that I was part of. And so we

01:40:03.479 --> 01:40:06.600
would teach for an hour and then spend an hour

01:40:06.600 --> 01:40:09.359
doing crosstalk. And so they were plugged in.

01:40:09.460 --> 01:40:11.199
And what they knew in their school was like,

01:40:11.300 --> 01:40:13.479
hey, we've got Grape Street Crips here present.

01:40:13.560 --> 01:40:15.140
We've got Nine Trey Bloods. I mean, they would

01:40:15.140 --> 01:40:18.960
rattle them off. They were doing their job. And

01:40:18.960 --> 01:40:20.359
they would work with the principals. And they're

01:40:20.359 --> 01:40:23.529
like, OK, we've identified. X number of guys

01:40:23.529 --> 01:40:26.729
in the school that are tied into fights. They're

01:40:26.729 --> 01:40:30.029
actively trying to recruit. And right now, you

01:40:30.029 --> 01:40:33.510
know, whatever, these six or seven kids are filed

01:40:33.510 --> 01:40:36.470
for suspension. Then when those lawsuits are

01:40:36.470 --> 01:40:39.350
getting filed, they don't get suspended and they

01:40:39.350 --> 01:40:41.090
get to stay in the school system and the family

01:40:41.090 --> 01:40:44.090
gets paid. Then the school system starts to adapt

01:40:44.090 --> 01:40:46.810
and they start to say, hey, we're not going to

01:40:46.810 --> 01:40:49.609
suspend unless it's this, this, this. And what

01:40:49.609 --> 01:40:52.420
they do is they start to. Let all the small things

01:40:52.420 --> 01:40:55.159
slide. And so we saw it in the school systems

01:40:55.159 --> 01:40:58.960
where, you know, the school security specialists

01:40:58.960 --> 01:41:03.359
and the SROs were saying, hey, the administrators

01:41:03.359 --> 01:41:07.060
will no longer suspend for all of these offenses

01:41:07.060 --> 01:41:09.819
that they used to suspend for. And what you saw

01:41:09.819 --> 01:41:14.939
was suspension early on in the year of very violent

01:41:14.939 --> 01:41:18.100
gang members causing problems set the tone for

01:41:18.100 --> 01:41:20.550
the rest of the year. And a lot of kids didn't

01:41:20.550 --> 01:41:22.270
want to get suspended because that was like social

01:41:22.270 --> 01:41:25.350
time for them. But what was happening is the

01:41:25.350 --> 01:41:28.470
more they got away with, the more other kids

01:41:28.470 --> 01:41:31.590
would give into peer pressure and start doing,

01:41:31.609 --> 01:41:35.050
you know, more problems. They would commit more

01:41:35.050 --> 01:41:37.909
problems like that or break more rules. And so

01:41:37.909 --> 01:41:39.970
the SROs that were locked in would come to the

01:41:39.970 --> 01:41:42.310
meetings and say, hey, man, I've got like five

01:41:42.310 --> 01:41:44.869
or six dudes that were like basically fast tracking

01:41:44.869 --> 01:41:48.229
to be really good students. And now they're hanging

01:41:48.229 --> 01:41:51.510
out with said gang member. And now we think they

01:41:51.510 --> 01:41:53.350
got in this fight after school. And now we're

01:41:53.350 --> 01:41:55.510
hearing that there's going to be problems. They

01:41:55.510 --> 01:41:57.329
were doing their job. It was pretty incredible

01:41:57.329 --> 01:41:59.989
to watch it. And then to hear, hey, but the administrators

01:41:59.989 --> 01:42:04.369
won't suspend. So all this bad behavior is going

01:42:04.369 --> 01:42:06.710
unchecked and it only gets worse and worse and

01:42:06.710 --> 01:42:10.909
worse. And so that was also coupled with lowering

01:42:10.909 --> 01:42:13.930
the arrest age. So, I mean, I'm sorry, raising

01:42:13.930 --> 01:42:16.289
the arrest age. So when the arrest age was 16,

01:42:17.100 --> 01:42:20.760
For physical arrests, they raised it to 18 for

01:42:20.760 --> 01:42:22.939
a lot of areas for states. And I think now all

01:42:22.939 --> 01:42:27.739
50 states are pretty much 18 or older. So younger

01:42:27.739 --> 01:42:30.319
kids are committing more problems in schools,

01:42:30.500 --> 01:42:34.720
not getting suspended, and then joining gangs.

01:42:34.920 --> 01:42:38.100
And if you were to overlay the presence of gangs

01:42:38.100 --> 01:42:42.159
in schools coupled with lawsuits or that reactive

01:42:42.159 --> 01:42:45.079
mode for admin or administrators not wanting

01:42:45.079 --> 01:42:48.819
to suspend, It is a recipe for disaster. And

01:42:48.819 --> 01:42:52.859
that's what you get. We saw it happen where guys

01:42:52.859 --> 01:42:55.380
were coming on the school grounds with guns to

01:42:55.380 --> 01:43:00.180
shoot other gang members years ago. And so we

01:43:00.180 --> 01:43:02.319
went proactive on all that mess, worked with

01:43:02.319 --> 01:43:05.359
an SRO. To one point, I mean, we had guys that

01:43:05.359 --> 01:43:07.520
would wear ghillie suits, like full camouflage

01:43:07.520 --> 01:43:09.760
in the edge of the woodlands, spotting people

01:43:09.760 --> 01:43:12.340
coming on school grounds. so that we can intercept

01:43:12.340 --> 01:43:14.880
guns or drugs, or if they have warrants, hey,

01:43:14.939 --> 01:43:16.600
you're getting arrested, you're not coming on

01:43:16.600 --> 01:43:19.000
school grounds, that sort of thing. You do that

01:43:19.000 --> 01:43:20.260
for a month or two, and then the rest of the

01:43:20.260 --> 01:43:22.619
school year is pretty much smooth sailing. But

01:43:22.619 --> 01:43:27.359
it's this recipe that we're in right now that's

01:43:27.359 --> 01:43:30.560
absolutely horrible. And any school systems that

01:43:30.560 --> 01:43:35.100
take that shortcut, it only gets worse. And I

01:43:35.100 --> 01:43:37.060
do think that probably in the next few years,

01:43:37.140 --> 01:43:39.850
there's going to be a lot more movement. of people

01:43:39.850 --> 01:43:42.170
leaving public schools, especially high schools

01:43:42.170 --> 01:43:46.989
and going into homeschooling or doing remote

01:43:46.989 --> 01:43:49.550
school, like talk through modules instead of

01:43:49.550 --> 01:43:52.369
dealing with all that. I mean, it's, it's horrible.

01:43:52.489 --> 01:43:56.569
I can say that, that most cities when I'm talking

01:43:56.569 --> 01:43:59.170
to people and what I've experienced, it's, it's

01:43:59.170 --> 01:44:01.470
horrible. Like it should never, ever go like

01:44:01.470 --> 01:44:05.130
that. Um, the fights, all of that stuff. Uh,

01:44:05.270 --> 01:44:09.590
but that, that is an administrative thing. And

01:44:09.590 --> 01:44:12.430
somebody's got to have a backbone and say these

01:44:12.430 --> 01:44:16.069
suspensions are not based in anything to do with

01:44:16.069 --> 01:44:18.890
race. You can take that category out. Actually,

01:44:18.909 --> 01:44:21.670
I don't even know why that is a category. Take

01:44:21.670 --> 01:44:25.550
that out. It's the incident. And what I've had

01:44:25.550 --> 01:44:30.149
to present in the past is if the gang itself

01:44:30.149 --> 01:44:33.550
is homogenous, if if it's a blood set and they

01:44:33.550 --> 01:44:38.489
only recruit, you know, black teenagers. and

01:44:38.489 --> 01:44:40.529
they are the predominant gang in that school

01:44:40.529 --> 01:44:42.649
and they're causing problems, they're probably

01:44:42.649 --> 01:44:44.170
going to have a pretty high suspension rate.

01:44:44.310 --> 01:44:47.289
If they self -segregate and only recruit black

01:44:47.289 --> 01:44:49.989
teenagers, that's who's going to be getting suspended.

01:44:50.569 --> 01:44:53.869
But you can take the race thing out. That baffles

01:44:53.869 --> 01:44:56.869
me that that would even be part of the suspension.

01:44:57.489 --> 01:45:00.970
Who cares? If they were fighting or creating

01:45:00.970 --> 01:45:04.149
problems or assaulting teachers like that's happened

01:45:04.149 --> 01:45:08.289
in the past and that goes unanswered criminal

01:45:08.289 --> 01:45:10.930
charges aren't filed, and that student comes

01:45:10.930 --> 01:45:14.329
back into the classroom, that teacher is pretty

01:45:14.329 --> 01:45:18.170
much ineffective. And I've heard about that,

01:45:18.229 --> 01:45:21.869
and I'm like, that is crazy. We don't do that

01:45:21.869 --> 01:45:25.229
with domestic violence. You know, people commit

01:45:25.229 --> 01:45:27.069
domestic violence, they get arrested for it.

01:45:27.130 --> 01:45:29.909
A student physically assaults a teacher and doesn't

01:45:29.909 --> 01:45:34.949
get charged? That's crazy. Or suspended? Nuts.

01:45:35.579 --> 01:45:38.560
Our principal of what the school my son goes

01:45:38.560 --> 01:45:40.340
to at the moment, she actually, I think she was

01:45:40.340 --> 01:45:42.340
trying to break up a fight and she got, I think

01:45:42.340 --> 01:45:46.319
her nose broken and she was assaulted. And I

01:45:46.319 --> 01:45:49.239
haven't seen what the result was from that. But

01:45:49.239 --> 01:45:51.859
I think the level of violence that we have at

01:45:51.859 --> 01:45:53.779
the moment, and don't get me wrong, most of us

01:45:53.779 --> 01:45:55.699
look outside our windows and we're very fortunate

01:45:55.699 --> 01:45:58.199
enough not to see a lot of this going on. But

01:45:58.199 --> 01:46:02.380
I had a guest on and he was talking about pre

01:46:02.380 --> 01:46:06.479
9 -11. the trauma physicians in the military

01:46:06.479 --> 01:46:12.159
were going to LA, New York, Detroit, to get training

01:46:12.159 --> 01:46:15.500
on how to treat stab wounds, gunshot wounds,

01:46:15.760 --> 01:46:19.060
you know, trauma, basically. And I, you know,

01:46:19.060 --> 01:46:20.560
when he was done with his talk, I'm like, just

01:46:20.560 --> 01:46:24.039
think about what you just said. That our streets

01:46:24.039 --> 01:46:27.119
are so dangerous in certain areas that our military

01:46:27.119 --> 01:46:29.779
is sending their medical professionals to train

01:46:29.779 --> 01:46:32.779
in those hospitals. Where is that discussion?

01:46:33.369 --> 01:46:36.149
And even like you said, with the way you describe

01:46:36.149 --> 01:46:39.310
these kind of broken homes, one of those kind

01:46:39.310 --> 01:46:41.289
of ivory tower comments that you hear people

01:46:41.289 --> 01:46:43.029
say is, oh, well, if, you know, it's these broken

01:46:43.029 --> 01:46:45.729
homes, if they just raise their kids, the way

01:46:45.729 --> 01:46:48.569
you just described how these households are unfolded,

01:46:48.569 --> 01:46:51.510
there is no potential for that child to have

01:46:51.510 --> 01:46:53.789
that father figure if that's a dynamic that they

01:46:53.789 --> 01:46:55.869
grew up in. And let's take it away from the gangs

01:46:55.869 --> 01:46:58.420
for a second. If you look at that, I mean, the

01:46:58.420 --> 01:47:00.640
multigenerational trauma, I'm sure that you've

01:47:00.640 --> 01:47:02.720
heard from the guests on your podcast. I always

01:47:02.720 --> 01:47:05.659
take a deep dive into early life. And, you know,

01:47:05.699 --> 01:47:07.720
more often than not, granddad came back from

01:47:07.720 --> 01:47:10.439
World War Two and he wasn't the greatest generation

01:47:10.439 --> 01:47:12.880
by that point. He was a broken man and he was

01:47:12.880 --> 01:47:15.079
an alcoholic and he was violent or whatever the

01:47:15.079 --> 01:47:18.220
thing was. And then he had mom or dad and then

01:47:18.220 --> 01:47:20.300
they had their issues. And now this person was

01:47:20.300 --> 01:47:22.500
born and they struggled. And then they found

01:47:22.500 --> 01:47:24.739
their way to the military, to law enforcement,

01:47:25.000 --> 01:47:27.680
whatever it is. We have a multi -generational

01:47:27.680 --> 01:47:31.739
trauma problem in many, many households. And

01:47:31.739 --> 01:47:33.460
I think this is where we need to turn around

01:47:33.460 --> 01:47:37.659
as a nation and go, why are our schools so dangerous?

01:47:37.779 --> 01:47:41.920
This doesn't happen in Oslo or Reykjavik or Lisbon,

01:47:41.960 --> 01:47:44.479
Portugal. There's a reason for that. We're all

01:47:44.479 --> 01:47:47.159
human beings. But again, like we were saying

01:47:47.159 --> 01:47:49.859
with law enforcement, with fire, the way we've

01:47:49.859 --> 01:47:52.479
done it isn't working. We have to change it.

01:47:52.810 --> 01:47:55.270
Well, if we have all these issues, we have 70

01:47:55.270 --> 01:47:58.829
% of our country obese or overweight, 25 % of

01:47:58.829 --> 01:48:02.949
our, we have 25 % of the world's incarcerated

01:48:02.949 --> 01:48:05.649
population, though we only make up 4 % of the

01:48:05.649 --> 01:48:09.029
world's population. We consume 75 % of the world's

01:48:09.029 --> 01:48:12.829
opioids. The way that we're doing it is not working.

01:48:13.069 --> 01:48:15.590
And so to point at law enforcement and say, you're

01:48:15.590 --> 01:48:18.050
not doing a good job from keeping our schools

01:48:18.050 --> 01:48:20.930
safe, from stopping these gangs. You know, we

01:48:20.930 --> 01:48:24.390
as a society have to go and demand change. I

01:48:24.390 --> 01:48:26.470
think, you know, that the prohibition of drugs

01:48:26.470 --> 01:48:29.250
should be removed as far as addiction, not smuggling,

01:48:29.289 --> 01:48:31.689
not selling. But the addicts should be put in

01:48:31.689 --> 01:48:34.630
the hands of the medical professionals. The law

01:48:34.630 --> 01:48:37.149
enforcement fire EMS should be bolstered, as

01:48:37.149 --> 01:48:39.810
should our hospitals. There's so many things

01:48:39.810 --> 01:48:42.250
that we can do to start curbing this. But if

01:48:42.250 --> 01:48:44.210
we just point fingers and then you point that

01:48:44.210 --> 01:48:46.069
law enforcement who's trying to do their best

01:48:46.069 --> 01:48:49.020
and say, oh, now you're racist. Like, just like

01:48:49.020 --> 01:48:51.520
you pointed out, I've worked in Haitian neighborhoods.

01:48:51.560 --> 01:48:53.899
I've worked in Cuban neighborhoods. You know

01:48:53.899 --> 01:48:56.460
what? Everyone I tried to save was Cuban and

01:48:56.460 --> 01:48:58.520
everyone who was a bad guy was Cuban. It was

01:48:58.520 --> 01:49:00.500
a fucking Cuban neighborhood. That's what happened.

01:49:00.819 --> 01:49:04.180
So, you know, we every single one of us needs

01:49:04.180 --> 01:49:07.279
to look at our own household and try and start

01:49:07.279 --> 01:49:09.880
raising kind, compassionate kids. And then the

01:49:09.880 --> 01:49:12.199
kids that weren't so fortunate to have that household

01:49:12.199 --> 01:49:16.619
start mentoring them. That son of a gang member

01:49:16.619 --> 01:49:20.500
may be the best fucking detective or firefighter

01:49:20.500 --> 01:49:22.619
that department has ever seen, but they're not

01:49:22.619 --> 01:49:24.739
if they're only mentors of people slinging dope.

01:49:25.000 --> 01:49:28.220
So it's on us as a nation to demand that we finally

01:49:28.220 --> 01:49:31.600
turn it around and question why is this happening

01:49:31.600 --> 01:49:33.979
in America, supposedly the greatest country in

01:49:33.979 --> 01:49:36.840
the world, when there are parts of the globe

01:49:36.840 --> 01:49:39.380
where this doesn't happen, where the children

01:49:39.380 --> 01:49:42.220
do go to school and they don't have to rehearse

01:49:42.220 --> 01:49:47.220
their own murder every three months. Yeah. Excuse

01:49:47.220 --> 01:49:50.159
me. I think one of the greatest things we could

01:49:50.159 --> 01:49:56.439
do in this country is remove boxes and demographics

01:49:56.439 --> 01:50:00.859
on everything. If you apply for a job, no demographics.

01:50:01.520 --> 01:50:05.020
If you're a student in a school, no demographics.

01:50:06.279 --> 01:50:11.600
Because just like I said, if if you remove all

01:50:11.600 --> 01:50:16.079
that. And just focus on each individual who was

01:50:16.079 --> 01:50:20.119
suspended. That doesn't matter. I don't understand

01:50:20.119 --> 01:50:24.279
why race, I do know why race gets injected. Because

01:50:24.279 --> 01:50:27.779
lawyers have learned cities and jurisdictions

01:50:27.779 --> 01:50:31.600
will pay money. And I'll get a cut of that money

01:50:31.600 --> 01:50:34.579
and so will the family. And guess what? These

01:50:34.579 --> 01:50:38.300
schools are suspending a lot of kids. Why? Because

01:50:38.300 --> 01:50:40.119
you've got a big gang problem and you've got

01:50:40.119 --> 01:50:42.949
kids that aren't even gang related. but are seeing

01:50:42.949 --> 01:50:46.390
everything go unchecked and they're doing whatever

01:50:46.390 --> 01:50:48.609
they want to do. That's the difference too is

01:50:48.609 --> 01:50:53.810
when someone acts away in a class and it goes

01:50:53.810 --> 01:50:56.489
unchecked, then anyone else who has that impulse

01:50:56.489 --> 01:51:00.550
potentially do it. We see it in society. Here's

01:51:00.550 --> 01:51:04.350
a great example. 10 years ago, you did not have

01:51:04.350 --> 01:51:10.270
30 people wearing all black, busting windows

01:51:10.270 --> 01:51:14.170
in jewelry stores. And just mobbing them, stealing

01:51:14.170 --> 01:51:15.949
everything and running out. Now, maybe you did.

01:51:16.050 --> 01:51:18.550
I will say like New York has had some stuff like

01:51:18.550 --> 01:51:21.310
that in the past, these trends, but nothing on

01:51:21.310 --> 01:51:23.890
the level that we have right now across the U

01:51:23.890 --> 01:51:31.090
.S. Or kids 50 deep on bicycles, coordinating

01:51:31.090 --> 01:51:35.109
efforts on their phones and mobbing like a gas

01:51:35.109 --> 01:51:37.229
station or 7 -Eleven and stealing everything

01:51:37.229 --> 01:51:40.539
out of store and thinking it's hilarious. You

01:51:40.539 --> 01:51:42.220
know what I mean? There are no repercussions.

01:51:42.279 --> 01:51:44.159
They're not going to be charged. Nothing's going

01:51:44.159 --> 01:51:48.460
to happen. And so the more people see that, the

01:51:48.460 --> 01:51:52.760
more they go, I'm going to do that. During the

01:51:52.760 --> 01:51:58.180
riots, like BLM riots and stuff years ago, I

01:51:58.180 --> 01:52:00.140
had an informant like, you ain't got to worry

01:52:00.140 --> 01:52:02.340
about these certain gang members in the riots.

01:52:02.840 --> 01:52:04.520
They're getting ready to go hit the shoe store.

01:52:04.960 --> 01:52:06.479
And that's what they were doing. It was all crime

01:52:06.479 --> 01:52:08.930
of opportunity. They could care less about. what

01:52:08.930 --> 01:52:10.609
everybody's writing about, they went to go steal

01:52:10.609 --> 01:52:12.550
shoes. And I think they hit a jewelry store too,

01:52:12.670 --> 01:52:16.449
but, but that trend is going to continue. It's

01:52:16.449 --> 01:52:19.229
going to accelerate because people can watch

01:52:19.229 --> 01:52:21.670
on a phone and learn and go, damn, if I get 30

01:52:21.670 --> 01:52:25.250
buddies and we all wear black head to toe hoodies,

01:52:25.250 --> 01:52:28.829
put on, you know, shy cities and go running in

01:52:28.829 --> 01:52:31.630
here and just steal stuff, we're going to get

01:52:31.630 --> 01:52:33.520
away with it. And what are they going to do?

01:52:33.560 --> 01:52:36.720
In California, the message was if you're still

01:52:36.720 --> 01:52:39.680
under X number of dollars, you won't even be

01:52:39.680 --> 01:52:43.119
criminally charged. So anytime that stuff goes

01:52:43.119 --> 01:52:46.640
on where you don't have direct repercussions,

01:52:46.880 --> 01:52:49.180
other people or opportunists, they're going to

01:52:49.180 --> 01:52:53.579
take advantage of it. And I think as far as Section

01:52:53.579 --> 01:52:57.819
8 violations where people are, you know, fraud

01:52:57.819 --> 01:53:01.949
and taking assistance from the government. And

01:53:01.949 --> 01:53:05.750
fraudulently and that's a whole like underground

01:53:05.750 --> 01:53:07.829
movement that's been going on for generations

01:53:07.829 --> 01:53:12.789
now. And it won't it won't stop as long as people

01:53:12.789 --> 01:53:16.069
are making money off of it and getting more and

01:53:16.069 --> 01:53:18.949
more benefits for that. Here's a good a good

01:53:18.949 --> 01:53:20.949
way. And I'm sure there are plenty of videos

01:53:20.949 --> 01:53:24.710
out there. Dudes don't hide it or people. I mean,

01:53:24.729 --> 01:53:27.729
it doesn't have to be guys. They won't hide the

01:53:27.729 --> 01:53:31.909
fact. That that's part of any other thing. The

01:53:31.909 --> 01:53:35.170
drug world, the fraud world, extortion, whatever.

01:53:35.229 --> 01:53:38.670
It's like you can get free housing. You can get,

01:53:38.670 --> 01:53:41.069
you know, EBT, SNAP, whatever. You can get these

01:53:41.069 --> 01:53:44.989
benefits per child, you know, get tax money back

01:53:44.989 --> 01:53:48.270
at the end of the year based on how many kids

01:53:48.270 --> 01:53:51.350
you have. That's crazy, too, because the average

01:53:51.350 --> 01:53:54.279
person. doesn't operate that way because in the

01:53:54.279 --> 01:53:57.460
american society we look at children as a you

01:53:57.460 --> 01:53:59.260
got to have a job you got to have a roof over

01:53:59.260 --> 01:54:01.560
your head you have all these bills and stuff

01:54:01.560 --> 01:54:07.220
that children accrue they're expensive but if

01:54:07.220 --> 01:54:09.779
it's the opposite world where you don't have

01:54:09.779 --> 01:54:11.979
a job and really no one's putting pressure on

01:54:11.979 --> 01:54:15.159
you to have a job and you don't have a whole

01:54:15.159 --> 01:54:18.060
lot going on at home and you do link up with

01:54:18.060 --> 01:54:21.460
a girl and y 'all can have a baby I think 18

01:54:21.460 --> 01:54:24.020
for most states, you get your name on a list

01:54:24.020 --> 01:54:26.779
and you get housing, you can get free housing.

01:54:27.060 --> 01:54:31.020
And in some cities years ago, they did away with

01:54:31.020 --> 01:54:35.380
destroying like the old brick section eight housing,

01:54:35.420 --> 01:54:37.859
like these terrorists and stuff like that. They,

01:54:37.939 --> 01:54:41.739
they leveled those and moved families out into

01:54:41.739 --> 01:54:44.739
the suburbs of the city, or at least in the jurisdiction.

01:54:45.380 --> 01:54:48.180
And so some families went from having like a

01:54:48.180 --> 01:54:51.949
two bedroom, one bathroom, basically in government

01:54:51.949 --> 01:54:57.829
housing to a like two or three bedroom house

01:54:57.829 --> 01:55:01.529
with a yard in a neighborhood. And the idea was

01:55:01.529 --> 01:55:03.829
to break down that environment, break down that,

01:55:03.829 --> 01:55:08.489
that cycle. And so if now you're a family and

01:55:08.489 --> 01:55:11.270
you're on section eight, but you're living in

01:55:11.270 --> 01:55:14.430
a neighborhood and the house is owned by the

01:55:14.430 --> 01:55:17.270
city authority. And instead of them spending

01:55:17.270 --> 01:55:19.850
all this money to rebuild these brick buildings,

01:55:20.069 --> 01:55:22.810
multi -units, they just bought these inexpensive

01:55:22.810 --> 01:55:25.590
houses and put families in them. It'll break

01:55:25.590 --> 01:55:28.050
that cycle. I saw it firsthand. I learned it

01:55:28.050 --> 01:55:30.930
in college and then saw it in the city. And I

01:55:30.930 --> 01:55:32.470
was like, this is pretty cool. This will work.

01:55:33.170 --> 01:55:36.569
And it didn't. And sadly, families were tearing

01:55:36.569 --> 01:55:39.550
up the houses, tearing up the neighborhood, the

01:55:39.550 --> 01:55:41.670
family. But what was cool is the families that

01:55:41.670 --> 01:55:44.890
were in the neighborhood, like one guy I met.

01:55:45.289 --> 01:55:48.729
And he was a mechanic. And he was furious. And

01:55:48.729 --> 01:55:52.109
he's like, I grew up in this certain area. It

01:55:52.109 --> 01:55:54.670
was my first beat. And it was mostly just Section

01:55:54.670 --> 01:55:58.130
8 housing. He's like, I grew up there. I didn't

01:55:58.130 --> 01:56:00.409
like it. I didn't want to stay there. I got a

01:56:00.409 --> 01:56:03.630
job. I bought this house. I'm raising my family

01:56:03.630 --> 01:56:06.390
away from that mess. And now the city's bringing

01:56:06.390 --> 01:56:09.149
it right next door to me. He had a legitimate

01:56:09.149 --> 01:56:11.949
argument. I fully understood his frustration.

01:56:12.970 --> 01:56:16.170
But I also like the idea that if you can break

01:56:16.170 --> 01:56:19.630
that cycle for a family, do it. I mean, nobody

01:56:19.630 --> 01:56:26.050
should in America want to have to stay on Section

01:56:26.050 --> 01:56:29.470
8 and subsidize stuff if you don't have to. If

01:56:29.470 --> 01:56:32.670
you can ably work and take care of your responsibilities,

01:56:33.149 --> 01:56:35.850
that's a great way to live because you don't

01:56:35.850 --> 01:56:39.729
have to answer to anybody. And I love meeting

01:56:39.729 --> 01:56:41.989
people who grew up in that environment and that

01:56:41.989 --> 01:56:45.029
were no longer in it. And they're like, I am

01:56:45.029 --> 01:56:47.689
a free man. I can do whatever I want to do. I

01:56:47.689 --> 01:56:50.930
show up to work. I get my paycheck. I do a good

01:56:50.930 --> 01:56:53.609
job. I make more money. I don't have to look

01:56:53.609 --> 01:56:55.989
over my shoulder. I don't have to walk outside

01:56:55.989 --> 01:56:59.109
and watch five guys lean on my truck or my car.

01:56:59.310 --> 01:57:04.270
I mean, so it's those things that you have to

01:57:04.270 --> 01:57:08.069
probably go back to. The Clinton administration

01:57:08.069 --> 01:57:09.869
was probably the first time I remember as an

01:57:09.869 --> 01:57:14.250
adult hearing about like massive budget cuts.

01:57:14.289 --> 01:57:16.689
And we're in an era right now where everybody's

01:57:16.689 --> 01:57:19.590
losing their mind about cutting funding and stuff.

01:57:20.149 --> 01:57:23.189
But if I remember right under under Clinton's

01:57:23.189 --> 01:57:25.310
administration, one of the one of his terms,

01:57:25.390 --> 01:57:29.729
there was a really a solid push for getting people

01:57:29.729 --> 01:57:35.029
off of Section 8 and assistance. And back to

01:57:35.029 --> 01:57:38.619
UPS. UPS had a hub, and I think it was in Atlanta

01:57:38.619 --> 01:57:41.680
maybe or Chicago. It was one of the larger hubs.

01:57:42.140 --> 01:57:45.479
And Jet Magazine did an article back then about

01:57:45.479 --> 01:57:49.920
primarily women, but family members who were

01:57:49.920 --> 01:57:54.239
able to work at UPS get off of Section 8 and

01:57:54.239 --> 01:57:57.960
subsidies and be able to provide for their family

01:57:57.960 --> 01:58:00.079
and actually get into a career that they could

01:58:00.079 --> 01:58:02.199
go up into management, they could become a driver.

01:58:02.460 --> 01:58:06.560
It was opening the door for them. To me, I was

01:58:06.560 --> 01:58:08.579
like, that's incredible. And that was whenever

01:58:08.579 --> 01:58:13.039
that was, like in the 90s. So flash forward,

01:58:13.119 --> 01:58:17.359
you come to now, and I saw it firsthand. So this

01:58:17.359 --> 01:58:22.180
is not like a stereotype or something Hollywood,

01:58:22.260 --> 01:58:25.060
whatever, makes a movie about. This is legit.

01:58:25.460 --> 01:58:29.239
It is a crime that's perpetuated. And I would

01:58:29.239 --> 01:58:32.859
probably say 60 % of what I saw was abuse of

01:58:32.859 --> 01:58:35.180
the system. If not more, I wasn't in every household,

01:58:35.279 --> 01:58:39.520
but I worked enough of it to know now flash forward.

01:58:40.199 --> 01:58:45.500
Now we're in this era of, you know, race coming

01:58:45.500 --> 01:58:47.840
back around. Like we went through affirmative

01:58:47.840 --> 01:58:51.600
action years ago, Supreme court had its rulings

01:58:51.600 --> 01:58:54.579
on it. And now we're right back into it. And

01:58:54.579 --> 01:58:57.470
I think. DEI would just be pretty much affirmative

01:58:57.470 --> 01:58:59.710
action. I don't fully understand the difference.

01:59:00.010 --> 01:59:02.130
Somebody may be able to explain it, but everything

01:59:02.130 --> 01:59:04.289
I've read, it sounds pretty much the same thing.

01:59:05.149 --> 01:59:07.850
And a lot of people just are not happy about

01:59:07.850 --> 01:59:13.369
it. And I look at it as the same thing. Remove

01:59:13.369 --> 01:59:17.029
the demographics from everything and just let

01:59:17.029 --> 01:59:19.510
people go to work and let people be rewarded

01:59:19.510 --> 01:59:24.659
and don't get hung up on. or what category somebody

01:59:24.659 --> 01:59:29.079
falls into. I mean, it's the content of their

01:59:29.079 --> 01:59:32.560
character. What are they doing? Are they hardworking?

01:59:32.699 --> 01:59:36.220
Are they taking care of their family? And if

01:59:36.220 --> 01:59:38.659
they're not, and if they are on Section 8 and

01:59:38.659 --> 01:59:41.300
public assistance, that's what it's there for

01:59:41.300 --> 01:59:44.420
if you fall in that criteria. What should never

01:59:44.420 --> 01:59:49.279
happen is I should never hear a jail phone call.

01:59:49.770 --> 01:59:52.430
with an 18 -year -old girl talking to a career

01:59:52.430 --> 01:59:55.710
criminal, and she's telling him, don't worry,

01:59:55.869 --> 01:59:58.130
I'm going to get on the list for public housing.

01:59:58.710 --> 02:00:01.109
Stuff like that, I can't wrap my brain around

02:00:01.109 --> 02:00:06.409
it. This is going on. So anyway, I think that

02:00:06.409 --> 02:00:10.529
the problem we're in right now is that you have

02:00:10.529 --> 02:00:14.010
school systems that have shifted away from discipline

02:00:14.010 --> 02:00:18.640
in the room. They are getting so caught up. in

02:00:18.640 --> 02:00:23.359
demographics, that it's almost as if a Twilight

02:00:23.359 --> 02:00:26.479
Zone episode is going on. And I feel like it

02:00:26.479 --> 02:00:29.359
can't be real when people are getting so focused

02:00:29.359 --> 02:00:31.819
on that. Because at the end of the day, none

02:00:31.819 --> 02:00:37.720
of it matters. The pigment does not matter. So

02:00:37.720 --> 02:00:43.619
then we've got that going on, on top of the complete

02:00:43.619 --> 02:00:47.279
divisiveness in America with... People aligning

02:00:47.279 --> 02:00:49.260
with whatever political party they want to align

02:00:49.260 --> 02:00:54.720
with. On top of now having Elon Musk and this

02:00:54.720 --> 02:00:57.220
Department of Government Efficiency or whatever,

02:00:57.319 --> 02:01:01.380
Doge, peeling back the paperwork and looking

02:01:01.380 --> 02:01:06.039
at USAID. I got no problems with that because

02:01:06.039 --> 02:01:10.600
to me, if this is all legitimate money and this

02:01:10.600 --> 02:01:13.739
is taxpayer funded, I'm fine with that. You should

02:01:13.739 --> 02:01:16.989
be audited. Everybody else is audited. If I get

02:01:16.989 --> 02:01:20.310
money, when I got informant funds in the police

02:01:20.310 --> 02:01:23.130
department, it was a track. There was a track

02:01:23.130 --> 02:01:26.510
record of it. Everything was documented. So nobody's

02:01:26.510 --> 02:01:29.369
stealing money. So why in the government would

02:01:29.369 --> 02:01:32.010
we ever have money that could not be accounted

02:01:32.010 --> 02:01:36.529
for? And if departments are, I don't know, missing

02:01:36.529 --> 02:01:40.090
millions and millions of dollars, to me, that's

02:01:40.090 --> 02:01:42.869
ludicrous. I don't know how that happens. That

02:01:42.869 --> 02:01:46.989
may explain why. taxes go up and why budgets

02:01:46.989 --> 02:01:51.609
are blown. I don't know. I just want people to

02:01:51.609 --> 02:01:55.310
be common sense. And if everybody stayed in the

02:01:55.310 --> 02:01:58.149
middle of the road and didn't go so far to the

02:01:58.149 --> 02:02:02.090
extremes, I think we'd be a lot better. Don't

02:02:02.090 --> 02:02:05.930
sweat all the categories. Just be kind, work

02:02:05.930 --> 02:02:09.649
hard, you know, live frugally if you can. Don't

02:02:09.649 --> 02:02:14.390
splurge too much. And if you pay taxes. The government

02:02:14.390 --> 02:02:17.270
should be able to explain down to the penny where

02:02:17.270 --> 02:02:20.949
the money goes. That's all. Absolutely. It's

02:02:20.949 --> 02:02:22.930
funny when you were talking about the mobs going

02:02:22.930 --> 02:02:27.850
and robbing stores. It's all about the environment

02:02:27.850 --> 02:02:29.649
that allows that to happen. If you could flip

02:02:29.649 --> 02:02:32.609
it back to the Capitol building, a group was

02:02:32.609 --> 02:02:34.930
empowered to go and basically beat up a bunch

02:02:34.930 --> 02:02:36.989
of police officers and go into a government building

02:02:36.989 --> 02:02:39.069
where arguably they should have been shot, breaching

02:02:39.069 --> 02:02:41.689
that threshold. And then they get pardoned a

02:02:41.689 --> 02:02:44.380
few. you know months or years later same exact

02:02:44.380 --> 02:02:46.300
thing you're empowering that kind of behavior

02:02:46.300 --> 02:02:48.819
i think that's equally as disgusting personally

02:02:48.819 --> 02:02:51.039
you dress as a buffalo and you go and you know

02:02:51.039 --> 02:02:52.960
traumatize a police department you should be

02:02:52.960 --> 02:02:56.260
in a fucking prison cell but um but with the

02:02:56.260 --> 02:02:59.899
uh with the auditing as well i've said this a

02:02:59.899 --> 02:03:02.359
few times i wish they would audit the fire service

02:03:02.359 --> 02:03:05.239
because anyone with a true knowledge of economics

02:03:05.239 --> 02:03:08.579
would be like what the fuck are you doing yeah

02:03:08.579 --> 02:03:10.159
have you seen all this money that's bleeding

02:03:10.159 --> 02:03:12.560
downstream And you've got your people dying?

02:03:12.760 --> 02:03:15.439
Have you lost your mind? Like, you need to hire

02:03:15.439 --> 02:03:17.500
more people. You need to create an environment

02:03:17.500 --> 02:03:19.520
that gets young people that want to get back

02:03:19.520 --> 02:03:22.779
into this uniform and proactively take care of

02:03:22.779 --> 02:03:24.539
them. And you would save money hand over fist.

02:03:25.039 --> 02:03:27.260
Does a taxpayer know that you've got a quarter

02:03:27.260 --> 02:03:29.859
of the department missing that might be the person

02:03:29.859 --> 02:03:31.560
that's going to get to your teenage son before

02:03:31.560 --> 02:03:33.359
they get shot? Do they know that? Have you given

02:03:33.359 --> 02:03:36.840
them a tax refund? No. So then this is my thing.

02:03:36.920 --> 02:03:38.279
It's like, well, if we're going to do the whole

02:03:38.279 --> 02:03:40.859
Doge thing or however they pronounce it. Let's

02:03:40.859 --> 02:03:43.779
do the fire service. Let's look at how expensive

02:03:43.779 --> 02:03:46.220
it is when a firefighter gets cancer and dies,

02:03:46.359 --> 02:03:48.880
when a firefighter takes their own life, when,

02:03:48.960 --> 02:03:51.939
you know, the ripple effect and that multigenerational

02:03:51.939 --> 02:03:54.579
trauma of a broken first responder family. And

02:03:54.579 --> 02:03:57.279
now the son or daughter is driving into addiction

02:03:57.279 --> 02:03:59.800
or gangs because mom or dad is never there. Excuse

02:03:59.800 --> 02:04:02.039
me, never there. Like if we're really going to

02:04:02.039 --> 02:04:03.960
do due diligence, well, then let's look at our

02:04:03.960 --> 02:04:06.800
professions, because on paper, the bottom line,

02:04:06.880 --> 02:04:10.390
the way we're doing it. Any astute business person

02:04:10.390 --> 02:04:12.489
would just laugh them out the fucking building.

02:04:12.729 --> 02:04:15.649
Like if you look at Google and Virgin and look

02:04:15.649 --> 02:04:18.890
at the UK has just done a study, 200 companies

02:04:18.890 --> 02:04:22.289
found that a four day civilian work week was

02:04:22.289 --> 02:04:25.470
a complete success. So if we're talking about

02:04:25.470 --> 02:04:28.630
the leaders in the corporate space, we couldn't

02:04:28.630 --> 02:04:31.189
be further from it if we tried in the first responder.

02:04:31.920 --> 02:04:33.819
So if you're listening, Trump administration,

02:04:34.220 --> 02:04:36.739
let's start looking at the police and fire departments

02:04:36.739 --> 02:04:38.619
and let's put money back into our profession

02:04:38.619 --> 02:04:40.680
so we can actually start doing our jobs again.

02:04:41.920 --> 02:04:45.420
I think the one thing that there's a lot of stuff

02:04:45.420 --> 02:04:48.680
I get frustrated with government culture, but

02:04:48.680 --> 02:04:50.779
I saw it in the army and in the police department.

02:04:50.779 --> 02:04:54.939
And I'm sure every branch or facet of government

02:04:54.939 --> 02:04:58.420
is the same. You get your budget, you get your

02:04:58.420 --> 02:05:01.000
allotment of money. And then towards the end

02:05:01.000 --> 02:05:03.939
of the year, higher ups will say, hey, we got

02:05:03.939 --> 02:05:06.180
to spend up this money. Not always, but, you

02:05:06.180 --> 02:05:11.220
know, throughout my life, I've heard it here

02:05:11.220 --> 02:05:13.279
and there. It's like we got to spend up this

02:05:13.279 --> 02:05:19.300
money because next year, if we turn in a surplus

02:05:19.300 --> 02:05:22.479
next year, they'll, you know, decrease our budget.

02:05:22.619 --> 02:05:26.060
Such a stupid system. Well, OK, then guess what?

02:05:26.859 --> 02:05:29.460
If you've got whatever, a surplus of money this

02:05:29.460 --> 02:05:32.260
year and you don't need it and you may not need

02:05:32.260 --> 02:05:34.340
it this year, then don't worry about it. You

02:05:34.340 --> 02:05:36.699
get your budget next year and then you, unless

02:05:36.699 --> 02:05:40.199
something unforeseen happens, then cool. And

02:05:40.199 --> 02:05:42.800
that's what happens is that people say, yeah,

02:05:42.819 --> 02:05:45.119
well, I don't want to run out of money on the

02:05:45.119 --> 02:05:47.539
budget. So I just want to keep the budget bigger

02:05:47.539 --> 02:05:50.720
and bigger. So I always have wiggle room and

02:05:50.720 --> 02:05:53.880
I've seen people fighting over money and it's

02:05:53.880 --> 02:05:57.710
like, I understand what you're saying. Also,

02:05:57.829 --> 02:06:01.229
could the surplus roll over to the next year?

02:06:01.310 --> 02:06:04.289
I don't know. That's what makes sense. That makes

02:06:04.289 --> 02:06:06.729
perfect sense. This year, we don't need it, but

02:06:06.729 --> 02:06:09.250
we want to use that money towards next year where

02:06:09.250 --> 02:06:11.329
we're going to hire 20 more police officers.

02:06:11.550 --> 02:06:14.250
It's not going to be this fiscal year. Why do

02:06:14.250 --> 02:06:17.789
I have to buy a bear cat just to justify this

02:06:17.789 --> 02:06:21.989
year's financial budget? It's like there's zero

02:06:21.989 --> 02:06:24.760
trust. I'm a big boy or a big girl. We're going

02:06:24.760 --> 02:06:26.779
to put this on the side because we are going

02:06:26.779 --> 02:06:31.380
to invest it next year. Is that okay? Yes. But,

02:06:31.420 --> 02:06:35.020
yeah, it's the thing of the culture of it. So

02:06:35.020 --> 02:06:39.279
there were times when I would say, hey, we don't

02:06:39.279 --> 02:06:41.300
need to do that. That's a freaking waste of money.

02:06:41.340 --> 02:06:43.859
Or I'm not going to sit here and copy or make

02:06:43.859 --> 02:06:47.819
copies, you know, 100 copies of something. I'm

02:06:47.819 --> 02:06:50.020
just going to email it to you. And I've had people

02:06:50.020 --> 02:06:52.420
say, that's not your money. Don't worry about

02:06:52.420 --> 02:06:54.979
it. Talking about the cities, I'm like, yeah,

02:06:55.039 --> 02:06:58.760
but we pay taxes, fool. So if we're paying taxes

02:06:58.760 --> 02:07:02.699
and we all have the same idea of just spin, spin,

02:07:02.739 --> 02:07:06.279
spin, it's not your money, then the budgets are

02:07:06.279 --> 02:07:09.060
going to keep getting inflated. And then politicians

02:07:09.060 --> 02:07:12.140
are going to say, well, we need more money, so

02:07:12.140 --> 02:07:14.399
we need to raise taxes. And what do they say?

02:07:14.479 --> 02:07:16.979
Oh, well, you don't want an unsafe city, so this

02:07:16.979 --> 02:07:18.699
money will go to the police departments or this

02:07:18.699 --> 02:07:20.539
money will go to your roads so you don't have

02:07:20.539 --> 02:07:23.460
potholes or your firefighters. Or school teachers

02:07:23.460 --> 02:07:26.020
like, no, y 'all been saying that for my entire

02:07:26.020 --> 02:07:29.939
life. So it's not a money thing. It's, it's a

02:07:29.939 --> 02:07:32.340
priority thing. It's a, can you balance a budget?

02:07:32.380 --> 02:07:35.539
And what is the culture of spending again with

02:07:35.539 --> 02:07:40.479
UPS after nine 11, when that happened, UPS had,

02:07:40.600 --> 02:07:43.180
it was like operation rolling thunder or something.

02:07:43.239 --> 02:07:45.340
They were like, we will not lay anybody off,

02:07:45.399 --> 02:07:47.920
but we're also not going to waste any money because

02:07:47.920 --> 02:07:49.380
we don't know what's going to happen here moving

02:07:49.380 --> 02:07:53.079
forward. And so they're like, Every paper clip

02:07:53.079 --> 02:07:56.399
is accounted for every post -it note. And I'm

02:07:56.399 --> 02:07:59.579
being serious. We cut post -it notes. You would

02:07:59.579 --> 02:08:02.159
write your message on the post -it note on the

02:08:02.159 --> 02:08:04.840
side, and then you would trim it. So you had

02:08:04.840 --> 02:08:07.039
the rest of that one little, whatever, two by

02:08:07.039 --> 02:08:10.300
two post -it note to write more messages. You

02:08:10.300 --> 02:08:12.159
didn't just write big, bold letters and slap

02:08:12.159 --> 02:08:14.199
the hole because you're not, you're not going

02:08:14.199 --> 02:08:16.399
to get another pack of post -its. You're not

02:08:16.399 --> 02:08:18.159
going to get paper clips. These are just small

02:08:18.159 --> 02:08:20.640
things, but they did that across the board on

02:08:20.640 --> 02:08:24.380
every. in the entire operation. It's a global

02:08:24.380 --> 02:08:27.899
operation. That was always impressive to me.

02:08:27.939 --> 02:08:30.039
Like, okay, their priority is we're not going

02:08:30.039 --> 02:08:32.260
to lay people off, but we're not going to spend

02:08:32.260 --> 02:08:36.100
money at all. Money will not be wasted. I always

02:08:36.100 --> 02:08:39.039
thought that was impressive. If government culture

02:08:39.039 --> 02:08:41.399
was that way, like, hey, we're not going to waste

02:08:41.399 --> 02:08:44.760
money. We're going to prioritize it. And that

02:08:44.760 --> 02:08:47.359
was the culture. Man, that would be incredible.

02:08:47.760 --> 02:08:52.659
Because I can say that, you know, What's going

02:08:52.659 --> 02:08:56.420
on right now, I think, is such a shock with the

02:08:56.420 --> 02:08:58.199
receipts, you know, that are coming out every

02:08:58.199 --> 02:09:00.640
day. And it's this idea of like, how is this

02:09:00.640 --> 02:09:05.159
going on? What's going on? Well, if nobody ever

02:09:05.159 --> 02:09:08.000
has to answer to anything and it becomes a cultural

02:09:08.000 --> 02:09:10.100
thing of we can send money here, we can send

02:09:10.100 --> 02:09:12.640
money there and nothing ever gets checked or

02:09:12.640 --> 02:09:14.979
you don't have to answer for it. It continues

02:09:14.979 --> 02:09:18.840
and continues. It's horrible to me. I can't stand

02:09:18.840 --> 02:09:23.380
it. I can't stand. anyone uh wanting me to pay

02:09:23.380 --> 02:09:26.920
a percentage of my money because i'm i'm frugal

02:09:26.920 --> 02:09:30.979
i'm making smart decisions and i don't want to

02:09:30.979 --> 02:09:35.979
have to pay 40 of my income or i don't want to

02:09:35.979 --> 02:09:40.319
pay 27 on capital gains tax like i no i don't

02:09:40.319 --> 02:09:42.119
want to do that not if i know you're blowing

02:09:42.119 --> 02:09:45.199
my money and you're wasting it but if you're

02:09:45.199 --> 02:09:47.159
actually spending it and you can account for

02:09:47.159 --> 02:09:50.060
it i'm cool with that and i'm even good if there's

02:09:50.060 --> 02:09:53.479
a little bit of i don't know mistakes made or

02:09:53.479 --> 02:09:57.239
whatever so far it just looks like pretty negligent

02:09:57.239 --> 02:10:00.739
um in general and i i think there's plenty of

02:10:00.739 --> 02:10:02.899
blame to go around on all of that i think that's

02:10:02.899 --> 02:10:05.779
the the funny thing is i'm i'm just paying attention

02:10:05.779 --> 02:10:08.960
to who's screaming the loudest about them looking

02:10:08.960 --> 02:10:13.680
at the books it's it to me i'm like well if if

02:10:13.680 --> 02:10:16.920
we're getting audited which we do in government,

02:10:17.439 --> 02:10:20.079
why is this such an eye -opener? You have to

02:10:20.079 --> 02:10:24.439
account for all the money. You can't. Well, at

02:10:24.439 --> 02:10:27.779
least local government, I should say. I think

02:10:27.779 --> 02:10:30.100
when you're starting to deal with trillions of

02:10:30.100 --> 02:10:32.199
dollars, maybe it's a little bit easier. I don't

02:10:32.199 --> 02:10:36.539
know. Or everybody is corrupt in certain situations,

02:10:36.640 --> 02:10:41.159
and one Republican helps a Democrat or whatever.

02:10:41.800 --> 02:10:44.050
Everybody's... You know, in on the take, maybe.

02:10:44.229 --> 02:10:47.430
I don't know. I do know that fraud investigators

02:10:47.430 --> 02:10:49.729
always tell me, just follow the money. It's pretty

02:10:49.729 --> 02:10:52.510
easy. I'm like, okay. So I guess they're going

02:10:52.510 --> 02:10:53.810
to follow the money. We're going to see what's

02:10:53.810 --> 02:10:59.470
going on. I don't know. My feeling is just, I

02:10:59.470 --> 02:11:02.529
cannot believe there's that much excess money

02:11:02.529 --> 02:11:07.050
going on. It's that false economy. I was talking

02:11:07.050 --> 02:11:09.649
to Tulsi Gabbard. And if you look at, let's take

02:11:09.649 --> 02:11:12.989
the UK, for example. You have a tax -based, or

02:11:12.989 --> 02:11:15.369
what used to be a tax -based, now it's been privatized

02:11:15.369 --> 02:11:18.250
and just slashed to pieces, but a tax -based

02:11:18.250 --> 02:11:21.670
health insurance, a health system, healthcare

02:11:21.670 --> 02:11:25.029
system. So that is such a beautiful model. And

02:11:25.029 --> 02:11:26.949
when it was first put in, it was so effective

02:11:26.949 --> 02:11:29.390
because the drive then is to make your population

02:11:29.390 --> 02:11:32.260
healthy. So they don't need more money. They

02:11:32.260 --> 02:11:34.119
just need to be more efficient with the tax they

02:11:34.119 --> 02:11:37.060
use for health care, for example. But now you

02:11:37.060 --> 02:11:39.840
go to the UK and we're behind, you know, following

02:11:39.840 --> 02:11:42.819
behind the US when it comes to obesity is heartbreak

02:11:42.819 --> 02:11:44.659
and seeing my people now. And they're wondering

02:11:44.659 --> 02:11:46.840
why the health care system is straining. It's

02:11:46.840 --> 02:11:49.380
not a bad system. I would argue the best health

02:11:49.380 --> 02:11:52.079
care system on the planet. We all chip in and

02:11:52.079 --> 02:11:54.279
take care of each and every one of us when it's

02:11:54.279 --> 02:11:56.600
needed. But we get everyone as healthy as possible.

02:11:56.680 --> 02:11:59.409
So it's not needed very often. So, you know,

02:11:59.430 --> 02:12:01.189
when you look at so many things that are broken

02:12:01.189 --> 02:12:04.949
in the U .S., we don't need more money for fire

02:12:04.949 --> 02:12:07.750
and police. We need to reinvest into the things

02:12:07.750 --> 02:12:10.069
that are most important with and we will save

02:12:10.069 --> 02:12:12.590
money then. We're wasting money on breaking our

02:12:12.590 --> 02:12:15.050
first responders. So this is I think the big

02:12:15.050 --> 02:12:17.369
thing is with the sufficiency is that there's

02:12:17.369 --> 02:12:19.430
probably going to be a realization that there

02:12:19.430 --> 02:12:21.630
was always enough money for all of these things.

02:12:21.710 --> 02:12:24.510
But there's been so much mismanagement. So people

02:12:24.510 --> 02:12:26.210
have got to stop, you know, getting all like,

02:12:26.310 --> 02:12:28.659
you know. bent out of shape about asking for

02:12:28.659 --> 02:12:31.220
more money we need to be asking for efficiency

02:12:31.220 --> 02:12:34.880
and proactive investment in people you know and

02:12:34.880 --> 02:12:37.560
all the all the the issues you know you you have

02:12:37.560 --> 02:12:41.079
you decriminalize addiction now you're not arresting

02:12:41.079 --> 02:12:43.500
every man and dog that's got a freaking joint

02:12:43.500 --> 02:12:45.579
in their pocket you know you start addressing

02:12:45.579 --> 02:12:49.020
obesity and now medicare and medicaid aren't

02:12:49.020 --> 02:12:51.939
being just drained you know so there's so many

02:12:51.939 --> 02:12:54.470
solutions that are proactive But you have to

02:12:54.470 --> 02:12:56.210
have, as you used the term earlier, the fucking

02:12:56.210 --> 02:12:59.989
backbone to stand up and say, the obesity crisis

02:12:59.989 --> 02:13:02.289
is costing us trillions. All these things are

02:13:02.289 --> 02:13:05.010
costing us. The money is there. We need to get

02:13:05.010 --> 02:13:07.050
people healthy physically and mentally again.

02:13:07.130 --> 02:13:09.590
We need to fix the schools. We need to reinvest

02:13:09.590 --> 02:13:11.710
in communities to start forging these families

02:13:11.710 --> 02:13:14.909
back together. Yeah, definitely. And the funny

02:13:14.909 --> 02:13:17.210
thing, I say funny, that's a Southern term. When

02:13:17.210 --> 02:13:18.930
we say funny thing, it's not really like it's

02:13:18.930 --> 02:13:22.960
hilarious. The interesting thing. is that a lot

02:13:22.960 --> 02:13:26.619
of departments did just kind of scale back like

02:13:26.619 --> 02:13:30.699
a lot of departments were not going after drug

02:13:30.699 --> 02:13:33.199
addicts so to speak so they were not going kind

02:13:33.199 --> 02:13:36.340
of like what I had mentioned earlier with certain

02:13:36.340 --> 02:13:40.000
operations when you stop the buyer who's leaving

02:13:40.000 --> 02:13:43.060
an area so they've bought you know one dosage

02:13:43.060 --> 02:13:45.300
unit of said drug you know whatever it is Molly

02:13:45.300 --> 02:13:50.210
oxy heroin whatever As they leave and you stop

02:13:50.210 --> 02:13:52.449
them and you recover that drug and you confirm

02:13:52.449 --> 02:13:56.390
that was an actual drug deal, the focus is going

02:13:56.390 --> 02:14:00.350
after the dealer. You hammer the dealer. The

02:14:00.350 --> 02:14:05.750
user usually is offered through the judicial

02:14:05.750 --> 02:14:12.409
system some type of rehabilitation program. You

02:14:12.409 --> 02:14:14.189
know how it is. A lot of people are just rock

02:14:14.189 --> 02:14:16.770
bottom. They don't have insurance. A lot of times

02:14:16.770 --> 02:14:19.689
they may not even be working. And so sometimes

02:14:19.689 --> 02:14:22.989
there can be rehabilitation programs like that.

02:14:23.069 --> 02:14:26.350
And sometimes they're never even charged because

02:14:26.350 --> 02:14:30.029
some jurisdictions are like, yes, they had, you

02:14:30.029 --> 02:14:34.029
know, whatever, one dosage unit of whatever crack

02:14:34.029 --> 02:14:36.350
cocaine. That was the big one for a long time.

02:14:36.670 --> 02:14:39.630
And any possession of crack cocaine was a felony

02:14:39.630 --> 02:14:44.409
no matter what. So in order to go after the dealers,

02:14:44.489 --> 02:14:47.029
you had to prove that what they sold was real.

02:14:47.439 --> 02:14:50.880
which means the user gets charged so i think

02:14:50.880 --> 02:14:53.680
a lot of jurisdictions have shifted away from

02:14:53.680 --> 02:14:55.899
that and some states have even changed their

02:14:55.899 --> 02:15:00.439
laws to where like a personal possession uh or

02:15:00.439 --> 02:15:03.279
under a certain weight of like say crack cocaine

02:15:03.279 --> 02:15:06.699
may not be a felony because potentially each

02:15:06.699 --> 02:15:09.460
state's you know different it's the same way

02:15:09.460 --> 02:15:12.739
what used to be prostitution we would do prostitution

02:15:12.739 --> 02:15:15.399
projects And when I say project, there's like

02:15:15.399 --> 02:15:17.060
assignments where that's all you do is focus

02:15:17.060 --> 02:15:21.579
on that. So you watch an area, you learn who's

02:15:21.579 --> 02:15:24.100
doing what. And sometimes we would, you know,

02:15:24.100 --> 02:15:26.119
have officers getting plain clothes, regular

02:15:26.119 --> 02:15:29.659
clothes. We wire them up. We can observe them

02:15:29.659 --> 02:15:32.579
from, you know, hide positions. And then people

02:15:32.579 --> 02:15:37.180
come up like, sadly, preachers. We've had army

02:15:37.180 --> 02:15:40.579
recruiters, you know, people come up from all

02:15:40.579 --> 02:15:44.079
different walks of life and try, you know. to

02:15:44.079 --> 02:15:48.000
solicit or to get sexual favors for money. Then

02:15:48.000 --> 02:15:51.779
you're arresting the Johns, we used to call them,

02:15:51.840 --> 02:15:55.560
right? But we would also, so we would focus on

02:15:55.560 --> 02:15:58.039
the Johns for one day, come in the next day and

02:15:58.039 --> 02:16:01.960
focus on the prostitutes, the women. And this

02:16:01.960 --> 02:16:06.359
was years ago. And our main purpose for doing

02:16:06.359 --> 02:16:08.819
that is we were trying to clean up that actual

02:16:08.819 --> 02:16:11.520
area. This is stuff going on in front of people's

02:16:11.520 --> 02:16:14.399
homes. So every city is different, but at least

02:16:14.399 --> 02:16:17.279
in my city, you had houses that were right beside

02:16:17.279 --> 02:16:19.939
one another and people were turning tricks in

02:16:19.939 --> 02:16:23.979
people's backyards, which gross. So used condoms

02:16:23.979 --> 02:16:25.680
are on the street where kids are having to stand

02:16:25.680 --> 02:16:28.159
for the bus to come through. This is horrible

02:16:28.159 --> 02:16:31.460
quality of life. So our thing on our level was

02:16:31.460 --> 02:16:34.540
you've empowered us to help change this neighborhood.

02:16:34.700 --> 02:16:38.020
We've got the backing of the citizens. Everybody's

02:16:38.020 --> 02:16:40.139
going to jail. If you're the John, you're going

02:16:40.139 --> 02:16:41.459
to jail. If you're the prostitute, you're going

02:16:41.459 --> 02:16:44.819
to jail. And eventually what happened is it was

02:16:44.819 --> 02:16:48.719
the businesses, the organizations, they couldn't

02:16:48.719 --> 02:16:51.500
stay there. These women couldn't stay. The men

02:16:51.500 --> 02:16:54.219
were getting tired of getting arrested. Sadly,

02:16:54.299 --> 02:16:57.340
though, all it does is it goes into motels. And

02:16:57.340 --> 02:16:59.799
then you have prostitutes doing stuff in hotels

02:16:59.799 --> 02:17:03.100
and motels. But at least it's out of that neighborhood.

02:17:03.219 --> 02:17:04.700
That was our thing was like, we've got to get

02:17:04.700 --> 02:17:06.399
it out of people's backyards. Like, I don't blame

02:17:06.399 --> 02:17:07.879
people. I would not want to put up with that

02:17:07.879 --> 02:17:10.700
either. Then when it gets into the motels, though,

02:17:10.780 --> 02:17:14.719
the newer strategy in the last probably seven

02:17:14.719 --> 02:17:17.940
to eight years has been the term human trafficking

02:17:17.940 --> 02:17:21.299
on different levels. And you run the investigation

02:17:21.299 --> 02:17:25.319
against whoever the organizers are, as opposed

02:17:25.319 --> 02:17:30.149
to the victim. you know, the female that's addicted

02:17:30.149 --> 02:17:33.489
to drugs or has a boyfriend addicted to drugs.

02:17:33.549 --> 02:17:35.909
So she's turning tricks in order to make money

02:17:35.909 --> 02:17:39.690
to feed a habit. The investigators, then the

02:17:39.690 --> 02:17:41.590
same way you do the drug world, you go after

02:17:41.590 --> 02:17:44.649
whoever's making money off of her and then you

02:17:44.649 --> 02:17:47.809
hammer them. And I can remember some of the first

02:17:47.809 --> 02:17:51.129
hotel projects or motel projects we worked and

02:17:51.129 --> 02:17:54.209
we started focusing on back then, you know, the

02:17:54.209 --> 02:17:56.030
term was pimp. That's what people would be and

02:17:56.030 --> 02:17:58.430
then brag about it. Uh, and then they started

02:17:58.430 --> 02:18:00.129
getting hit with human trafficking and on jail

02:18:00.129 --> 02:18:02.309
phone calls, they're trying to coordinate efforts

02:18:02.309 --> 02:18:04.909
and, and they're already charged. They're just

02:18:04.909 --> 02:18:07.370
trying to figure out what the charge is. And

02:18:07.370 --> 02:18:09.290
guys couldn't adapt at first. They're like, I

02:18:09.290 --> 02:18:10.750
don't know what this human trafficking thing

02:18:10.750 --> 02:18:13.670
is. Like they said, you know, I was running girls

02:18:13.670 --> 02:18:15.510
or whatever. And in their mind, it was like,

02:18:15.569 --> 02:18:18.569
so what? Nobody cares. And then they're getting,

02:18:18.629 --> 02:18:22.469
you know, um, convicted or having to plead guilty

02:18:22.469 --> 02:18:25.500
and they're getting like 30 year sentences. And

02:18:25.500 --> 02:18:28.760
these dudes then started figuring out, oh, I

02:18:28.760 --> 02:18:30.680
don't want to run girls because they're going

02:18:30.680 --> 02:18:32.739
to give me just as many years as if I'm out here,

02:18:32.819 --> 02:18:35.420
you know, slinging whatever drug on the corner

02:18:35.420 --> 02:18:39.120
or in a motel. Sometimes they transition into

02:18:39.120 --> 02:18:41.680
fraud or whatever. But it was that idea, kind

02:18:41.680 --> 02:18:43.340
of like what you said, as opposed to wasting

02:18:43.340 --> 02:18:48.760
money and time making lives worse for addicts

02:18:48.760 --> 02:18:52.930
or women who were. you know, sex workers. It

02:18:52.930 --> 02:18:55.430
was like this idea of go after people who are

02:18:55.430 --> 02:18:57.510
profiting off of them or making money off of

02:18:57.510 --> 02:19:00.190
them. I do like that approach much better. And

02:19:00.190 --> 02:19:03.690
it's just, you know, units and police evolve.

02:19:04.110 --> 02:19:07.329
They get better at their craft and they actually

02:19:07.329 --> 02:19:12.010
care. Like nobody likes seeing the things that

02:19:12.010 --> 02:19:16.129
we would see on patrol or you talk like there

02:19:16.129 --> 02:19:18.049
were girls that, you know, I'll get in plain

02:19:18.049 --> 02:19:19.950
clothes. I just dress up in regular clothes.

02:19:20.680 --> 02:19:23.100
and get like a pickup truck or a regular car,

02:19:23.260 --> 02:19:25.340
whatever. We had a few disposable vehicles at

02:19:25.340 --> 02:19:28.260
one point and we were like, what would be equivalent

02:19:28.260 --> 02:19:31.819
of a street crimes unit. And so some of these

02:19:31.819 --> 02:19:34.360
women were informants. You throw them in the

02:19:34.360 --> 02:19:36.340
passenger seat and you just ride around the area

02:19:36.340 --> 02:19:38.579
because everybody knows them. So when they see

02:19:38.579 --> 02:19:41.360
like me driving the vehicle and they see her,

02:19:41.479 --> 02:19:43.979
they think she's just turning a trick. And meanwhile,

02:19:44.079 --> 02:19:45.799
I've got a radio on my lap and I'm just calling

02:19:45.799 --> 02:19:48.139
stuff in, you know, Hey, so -and -so's out here.

02:19:48.200 --> 02:19:50.180
He's got a warrant. We already know that. He's

02:19:50.180 --> 02:19:51.860
posted up at this store watching. He's right

02:19:51.860 --> 02:19:54.059
near a cut. You know, somebody come in and scoop

02:19:54.059 --> 02:19:57.000
him up, make that arrest. And also during that

02:19:57.000 --> 02:19:59.639
time, we're having normal conversations. And

02:19:59.639 --> 02:20:04.840
I have one source or one lady telling me about

02:20:04.840 --> 02:20:08.219
getting beat in the middle of the street. And

02:20:08.219 --> 02:20:10.420
all she wanted was the police to come around

02:20:10.420 --> 02:20:13.639
the corner and save her. And we got into some

02:20:13.639 --> 02:20:16.040
other stuff. She'd grown up in the city and we

02:20:16.040 --> 02:20:18.579
knew some of the same people. It's horrible.

02:20:18.659 --> 02:20:20.659
I would always ask people that. How did you get

02:20:20.659 --> 02:20:24.319
into this? How did you go from hanging out in

02:20:24.319 --> 02:20:27.379
whatever town or whatever neighborhood to now

02:20:27.379 --> 02:20:30.620
smoking crack and turning tricks with complete

02:20:30.620 --> 02:20:35.540
strangers? It's horrible. I tell officers and

02:20:35.540 --> 02:20:37.959
I tell at my classes and stuff, talk to people

02:20:37.959 --> 02:20:41.299
as much as you possibly can. Learn so that you

02:20:41.299 --> 02:20:46.379
can change strategies. You can speak from the

02:20:46.379 --> 02:20:49.479
humanitarian side of it and a logical side and

02:20:49.479 --> 02:20:52.620
say, hey, we're not going to waste taxpayers'

02:20:52.879 --> 02:20:54.840
resources. We're not going to waste our efforts

02:20:54.840 --> 02:21:00.360
and focus on certain strategies like this. We're

02:21:00.360 --> 02:21:01.840
going to change up. We're going to look at how

02:21:01.840 --> 02:21:06.100
we do it. It's impressive to me what some units

02:21:06.100 --> 02:21:08.059
have been able to do in the last few years when

02:21:08.059 --> 02:21:12.559
they hone in that craft. One of the things in

02:21:12.559 --> 02:21:16.219
the war on drugs, And anybody listening who's

02:21:16.219 --> 02:21:19.059
ever worked on a drug unit knows, you know, our

02:21:19.059 --> 02:21:22.159
term was the kilo fairy. It was always this idea

02:21:22.159 --> 02:21:26.639
of I want to get a kilo, kilo of Coke or whatever.

02:21:27.200 --> 02:21:30.420
And I couldn't wrap my brain around that because

02:21:30.420 --> 02:21:33.079
I knew the most violent guys in our city were

02:21:33.079 --> 02:21:35.639
selling very small amounts of crack and heroin.

02:21:35.940 --> 02:21:38.079
And then they got into the Molly game and stuff.

02:21:38.139 --> 02:21:41.620
But it was like this idea like those guys are

02:21:41.620 --> 02:21:44.629
so violent. And they're linked into our shootings

02:21:44.629 --> 02:21:48.729
and they're just like just going wild. But here

02:21:48.729 --> 02:21:50.690
are these drug charges that we can actually work

02:21:50.690 --> 02:21:54.450
drug cases on. And they go away. They go away

02:21:54.450 --> 02:21:57.370
for seven years, 10 years, 15 years. And that

02:21:57.370 --> 02:22:00.389
actually causes peace in the city. And then other

02:22:00.389 --> 02:22:03.690
guys don't follow suit necessarily. And like

02:22:03.690 --> 02:22:07.049
I said earlier, you know, if a ranking gang member

02:22:07.049 --> 02:22:10.000
goes away for seven years. because they had a

02:22:10.000 --> 02:22:11.700
couple of crack rocks in their pocket or they

02:22:11.700 --> 02:22:14.600
got caught actually selling, then that has a

02:22:14.600 --> 02:22:17.079
ripple effect in the game. Other guys are like,

02:22:17.120 --> 02:22:19.360
no, I'm not trying to do seven years for selling

02:22:19.360 --> 02:22:22.000
crack or heroin or pick the drug of today, Oxy

02:22:22.000 --> 02:22:25.000
or fentanyl or whatever. They evolve. And some

02:22:25.000 --> 02:22:26.500
of them are like, I'm going to get into the fraud

02:22:26.500 --> 02:22:29.559
game. You know, I'm sorry, but I would much rather

02:22:29.559 --> 02:22:32.360
somebody commit fraud than be out there selling

02:22:32.360 --> 02:22:36.860
drugs and enslaving people. You know, so. Sometimes

02:22:36.860 --> 02:22:39.479
that's a win. When gangs are evolving and younger

02:22:39.479 --> 02:22:41.739
guys are like, I'm going to get these free bands.

02:22:41.899 --> 02:22:44.000
I'm not going to be out here, you know, twisting

02:22:44.000 --> 02:22:46.420
baggies and spitting rocks and stuff for you

02:22:46.420 --> 02:22:49.739
guys. I'm going to get in a fraud game. So when

02:22:49.739 --> 02:22:52.139
you get in the weeds of it and you talk to people,

02:22:52.239 --> 02:22:56.020
and I've worked sources in every gang that we

02:22:56.020 --> 02:22:58.700
had in the city, and I was always just a small

02:22:58.700 --> 02:23:01.520
talk, too, to learn, to understand those things

02:23:01.520 --> 02:23:04.850
and to understand these issues. on different

02:23:04.850 --> 02:23:08.290
levels, not just what maybe a textbook would

02:23:08.290 --> 02:23:12.729
say in a class or, you know, what the theory

02:23:12.729 --> 02:23:16.209
is in police work. And we saw that would defund

02:23:16.209 --> 02:23:19.010
the police. So many people were on this theory

02:23:19.010 --> 02:23:21.850
of defund the police, defund. And at every turn

02:23:21.850 --> 02:23:23.430
I would say, well, okay, I'm, I'm open -minded.

02:23:23.450 --> 02:23:25.969
Tell me what, tell me what we got. Police need

02:23:25.969 --> 02:23:27.809
to be better trained. They need to learn how

02:23:27.809 --> 02:23:29.629
to deescalate. All right, cool. Welcome to the

02:23:29.629 --> 02:23:31.590
last 20 years of police work. We've been doing

02:23:31.590 --> 02:23:34.010
that, but all right. But at every turn, they

02:23:34.010 --> 02:23:37.530
wanted to defund and cut funding, but then wanted

02:23:37.530 --> 02:23:41.670
more training. It's like you can't cut funding

02:23:41.670 --> 02:23:44.329
but then expect officers to get more training

02:23:44.329 --> 02:23:50.250
in it. Anyway, that was all based in stupidity.

02:23:50.250 --> 02:23:52.729
It was just a dumb theory or idea that really

02:23:52.729 --> 02:23:54.969
got pushed, and a lot of people just started

02:23:54.969 --> 02:23:57.610
chanting it. And the people who were not chanting

02:23:57.610 --> 02:23:59.989
anything about defund the police were people

02:23:59.989 --> 02:24:01.829
living in the neighborhoods that I just talked

02:24:01.829 --> 02:24:05.510
about. and grandmothers who watched their grandsons

02:24:05.510 --> 02:24:09.129
join a gang and go away to prison, those families

02:24:09.129 --> 02:24:11.930
were not chanting defund the police. And when

02:24:11.930 --> 02:24:15.770
everything fell on these racial lines and everybody

02:24:15.770 --> 02:24:19.909
was wanting to identify with a category and become

02:24:19.909 --> 02:24:23.709
closed -minded instead of open -minded, if you

02:24:23.709 --> 02:24:26.530
want to interject race into that, you can understand

02:24:26.530 --> 02:24:29.190
that every family I was talking about were black

02:24:29.190 --> 02:24:31.190
families that grew up in the South, some of them

02:24:31.190 --> 02:24:34.190
two, three, four generations. And they lived

02:24:34.190 --> 02:24:36.309
through the civil rights movement. And they could

02:24:36.309 --> 02:24:39.610
tell me about marching and the organization of

02:24:39.610 --> 02:24:43.069
SNCC or SNCC, Student Nonviolent Coordinating

02:24:43.069 --> 02:24:46.149
Committee. I mean, like this great history and

02:24:46.149 --> 02:24:49.430
great examples of how neighborhoods had changed

02:24:49.430 --> 02:24:52.090
and how people had jobs and owned their businesses

02:24:52.090 --> 02:24:55.729
and got elected officials. And before I ever

02:24:55.729 --> 02:24:58.750
even became, before I was ever even born, In

02:24:58.750 --> 02:25:01.489
the city I worked in, it was a big city, there

02:25:01.489 --> 02:25:04.989
was the first black police chief years before

02:25:04.989 --> 02:25:08.909
I was even born. It just blew my mind that through

02:25:08.909 --> 02:25:11.510
my whole career, I would watch that cycle of

02:25:11.510 --> 02:25:14.930
people bringing up race and interjecting it and

02:25:14.930 --> 02:25:17.829
different movements. And I'm going, man, like

02:25:17.829 --> 02:25:20.649
y 'all don't get it. The happiest families and

02:25:20.649 --> 02:25:23.989
the most prosperous families I met working in

02:25:23.989 --> 02:25:27.190
the city. were families that just focused on

02:25:27.190 --> 02:25:29.229
the family and they focused on the business and

02:25:29.229 --> 02:25:32.809
they focused on raising kids that were kind and

02:25:32.809 --> 02:25:35.750
who had a great work ethic and wanted to go to

02:25:35.750 --> 02:25:38.209
school and they wanted to learn and they took

02:25:38.209 --> 02:25:41.549
pride in their personal accomplishments. They

02:25:41.549 --> 02:25:44.909
didn't get jammed up all on checking a block

02:25:44.909 --> 02:25:47.489
for a demographic or whatever. I don't know.

02:25:47.530 --> 02:25:50.069
To me, that was one of the greatest parts of

02:25:50.069 --> 02:25:52.549
my career is seeing that and then when I speak

02:25:52.549 --> 02:25:56.860
with people. knowing you're missing everything.

02:25:57.879 --> 02:26:02.200
You're getting it all wrong. Get away from the

02:26:02.200 --> 02:26:06.420
demographics. Absolutely. Well, I could talk

02:26:06.420 --> 02:26:08.079
to you for hours and hours. We've been chatting

02:26:08.079 --> 02:26:10.319
almost two and a half hours, so I want to round

02:26:10.319 --> 02:26:13.639
it off. For people listening, if they want to

02:26:13.639 --> 02:26:15.639
hear you speak, if they want to reach out or

02:26:15.639 --> 02:26:17.340
they want to listen to the Disruptus podcast,

02:26:17.780 --> 02:26:21.659
where are the best places to go? It's The Disruptors

02:26:21.659 --> 02:26:25.139
with Brian Sanders. That's the full title. There's

02:26:25.139 --> 02:26:27.139
another show that someone else uses with a similar

02:26:27.139 --> 02:26:29.360
title, but that's the full title. It's on Spotify,

02:26:29.700 --> 02:26:34.059
Apple, all the streaming platforms. Usually an

02:26:34.059 --> 02:26:36.739
episode goes out every week, and I have different

02:26:36.739 --> 02:26:40.540
guests, gang members, former Nazi skinheads.

02:26:40.719 --> 02:26:44.079
You've been on there. I like to shuffle it up.

02:26:44.139 --> 02:26:47.639
I've had authors on. I've had undercover detectives.

02:26:48.059 --> 02:26:51.760
People that have worked overseas. So I just I

02:26:51.760 --> 02:26:54.180
like interesting things like that. I also have

02:26:54.180 --> 02:26:58.360
a live show on Tuesday nights on YouTube, and

02:26:58.360 --> 02:27:01.100
it also gets posted on all the different platforms

02:27:01.100 --> 02:27:04.760
and audio format. But it's Night Shift with Andrea

02:27:04.760 --> 02:27:08.139
Uplate, and that's actually true crime. And it's

02:27:08.139 --> 02:27:10.479
my wife and I. She's had the show for a couple

02:27:10.479 --> 02:27:14.540
of years now, but she'll go over a case and then

02:27:14.540 --> 02:27:17.069
we just kind of discuss it. And sometimes it'll

02:27:17.069 --> 02:27:21.049
be unsolved cases or it could be solved or missing

02:27:21.049 --> 02:27:23.489
persons. But we go in depth with her medical

02:27:23.489 --> 02:27:26.370
background and then my background from homicide

02:27:26.370 --> 02:27:28.370
and be able to explain different facets of an

02:27:28.370 --> 02:27:32.569
investigation. Or if it's unsolved, why? Like

02:27:32.569 --> 02:27:35.489
we can explain some of the things that other

02:27:35.489 --> 02:27:38.370
shows can't necessarily or they start to speculate.

02:27:39.129 --> 02:27:43.569
And the easiest way to reach me is on Instagram.

02:27:44.379 --> 02:27:47.739
The underscore disruptors underscore podcast

02:27:47.739 --> 02:27:53.020
or my website for like training. I teach sworn

02:27:53.020 --> 02:27:55.239
law enforcement as well as citizens. I do different

02:27:55.239 --> 02:27:57.979
types of presentations. I'll tailor make them

02:27:57.979 --> 02:28:00.120
for people. So I've had companies hire me to

02:28:00.120 --> 02:28:03.860
come and present different government entities,

02:28:04.120 --> 02:28:06.639
whatever. And that's the disruptors with Brian

02:28:06.639 --> 02:28:09.040
Sanders dot com. And that's probably the easiest

02:28:09.040 --> 02:28:12.399
way. And it's got an email address on there because

02:28:12.399 --> 02:28:15.049
there are people that. aren't on instagram and

02:28:15.049 --> 02:28:19.750
that's the disruptors period bc period ski sk

02:28:19.750 --> 02:28:22.809
i at gmail and that's on the website too but

02:28:22.809 --> 02:28:25.270
you can shoot me an email with any kind of questions

02:28:25.270 --> 02:28:28.870
or if anyone's interested in that type of training

02:28:28.870 --> 02:28:31.750
or presentations or whatever i'll tailor make

02:28:31.750 --> 02:28:33.790
it i mean my thing has always just been getting

02:28:33.790 --> 02:28:36.750
information out to people and i'm i'm long -winded

02:28:36.750 --> 02:28:40.840
as hell and i talk forever so you know i am Well,

02:28:40.879 --> 02:28:42.299
I want to thank you, mate. It's been such an

02:28:42.299 --> 02:28:44.500
amazing conversation, a little bit more philosophical

02:28:44.500 --> 02:28:46.739
this time, but I think that's, that's important.

02:28:46.879 --> 02:28:49.139
Now you get to reflect over an entire career,

02:28:49.260 --> 02:28:51.500
you know, explore some of these areas that people

02:28:51.500 --> 02:28:53.600
don't like to talk about. So I want to thank

02:28:53.600 --> 02:28:55.879
you so much for being so generous with your time

02:28:55.879 --> 02:28:58.059
and coming back onto the behind the shield podcast

02:28:58.059 --> 02:29:00.340
today. Thank you for having me on.