WEBVTT

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This episode is sponsored by Transcend, a veteran

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-owned and operated performance optimization

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company that I introduced recently as a sponsor

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on this show. Well, since then I have actually

00:00:10.820 --> 00:00:13.080
been using my products and I have had incredible

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success. There was initial blood work that was

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extremely detailed and based on that they offered

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supplementation. So I began taking DHEA. BPC

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-157 for inflammation based on the fact that

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I've been a stuntman, a martial artist and a

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firefighter my whole life. Lots of aches and

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pains. Dihexa to help cognition after multiple

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punches to the head and shift work and peptides.

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Four months later they did a detailed blood work

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again and I was actually able to taper off two

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of the peptides because my body had responded

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so well to just one of them that it was optimized

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at that point. So I cannot speak highly enough

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of the immense range of supplementation that

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which I would argue is needed by a lot of the

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fire service, or whether it's exogenous testosterone

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needed, especially after TBIs or advanced age.

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Now, as I mentioned before, the other side of

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this company is an altruistic arm called the

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Transcend Foundation, which is putting veterans

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and first responders through some of their protocols

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free of charge. Now, Transcend are also offering

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the Products tab. And if you want to hear more

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about Transcend and their story, listen to episode

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808 with the founder, Ernie Colling. or go to

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transcendcompany .com. This episode is sponsored

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by TeamBuildr, yet another company that's doing

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great things for the first responder community.

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As a strength and conditioning coach myself,

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who also trains tactical athletes, dissemination

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of wellness information is one of the biggest

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challenges. Now, TeamBuildr is the premier

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really impress me. Firstly, there is a full exercise

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have to create that within your own department.

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individualize, which I love. So you blanket program

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also allows you to build custom questionnaires

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to collate health and wellness data. It integrates

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with wearables. And I think one of the most important

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things is obviously it tracks. To me, it's imperative

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that we as a profession start tracking our people

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from day one and then over the full span of their

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career, therefore catching potential wellness

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issues and injuries before they happen. Now,

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if you want to try TeamBuildr, they are offering

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you, the audience of the Behind the Shield podcast,

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a free 14 -day trial to experience all of the

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features. And if you want to take a deeper dive

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into Team Builder, listen to episode 1032 with

00:03:13.849 --> 00:03:17.870
Melissa Mercado or go to teambuildr .com. And

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I'll spell that to you because it's not as you

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think, T -E -A -M -B -U -I -L -D -R .com. Welcome

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to the Behind the Shield podcast. As always,

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my name is James Gearing and this week it is

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my absolute honor to welcome on the show retired

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FDNY firefighter, fitness trainer, and chef Joe

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Bonanno. Now in this conversation we discuss

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a host of topics from his journey into the fire

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service, fitness training, nutrition, The sequence

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of events that sent him not only into creating

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a firehouse cookbook, but ultimately being a

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TV personality as a chef. His transition out.

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His powerful 9 -11 story. The community forged

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on 9 -12. And so much more. Now before we get

00:04:06.979 --> 00:04:09.159
to this incredible conversation, as I say every

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week, please just take a moment. Go to whichever

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app you listen to this on. Subscribe to the show.

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Leave feedback and leave a rating. Every single

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five -star rating truly does elevate this podcast,

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therefore making it easier for others to find.

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And this is a free library of well over 1 ,000

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episodes now. So all I ask in return is that

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you help share these incredible men and women's

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stories so I can get them to every single person

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on planet Earth who needs to hear them. So that

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being said, I introduce to you... Joe Bonanno.

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Enjoy. Well, Joe, I want to start by saying thank

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you so much for taking the time and coming on

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the Behind the Shield podcast today. No, I want

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to thank you. And I love the title of your show,

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Behind the Shield, because there's a lot to that.

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Absolutely. Well, first question, where on planet

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Earth are we finding you today? I'm in Safety

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Harbor, Florida, which is in the Tampa St. Pete

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area. Retired out of New York. And after many

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frozen winters, I decided, you know, I first,

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after 9 -11, I retired and then I... I had a

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place here and they call it a snowbird. You spend

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half the year in New York, half in Florida. And

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then after so many years, I'm like, you know,

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why am I maintaining a house up there and a house

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here? I just committed to Florida. And then,

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you know, with the world the way it is with cell

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phone and text, you can talk to your family and

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friends just as easy as if you were there. So

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I decided to move here permanently. So Safety

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Harbor, Florida, Tampa, St. Pete area. So my

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wife. was an optician she's just about to finish

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as an optometrist now as a doctor but for the

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longest time that's what she was doing and every

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two years she had to recertify get her continuing

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education and so they did it in the safety harbor

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hotel there right on the on the oh yeah yeah

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i'm right down it's a quarter a mile from my

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house yep yeah so i love we love it there such

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a beautiful community really seems to be a tight

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-knit community what was it that drove you to

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that specific place in florida A friend of mine,

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I was thinking about retiring as my 20. We have

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a 20 -year retirement. I'd already had 20 years

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on, so I was over time already. You don't have

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to retire at 20 years, but you can. You have

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to retire at 65. I wasn't anywhere close to that.

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But I had 20, and you just start thinking about

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it. Like, you know, where would I go? Do I want

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to stay here? I already spent so many years in

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New York. And a friend of mine that was a police

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officer, he was coming down to visit his parents

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who lived in the next town over, which is Oldsmore.

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And he was dating some girl at the time. They

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broke up. So he had the extra ticket. He goes,

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hey, you want to come with me? You know, hang

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out with my parents. I go, yeah, sure. I'll go

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to Florida in the middle of winter. Why not?

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And then once I got here, I was talking to his

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father about what it was like to live here. They

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were from New York originally, too. And I asked

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him, you know, I like the Norman Rockwell small

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town with the main street and the library and

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the firehouse. So Oldsmore was where he lived.

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That was more like strip malls and stuff. And

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I asked his father. You know, where's a town

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around here that's like a little bit of Norman

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Rockwell? You know, you walk down Main Street

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and you got the library, the post office and

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the firehouse. And he says, you ought to check

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out Safety Harbor. So I said, get in the car,

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let's go. So we got in the car with me. We went

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down here. And at the time, just to reflect on

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the real estate prices, that was probably 2003

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or 2002, right after 9 -11. And once I went down

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Main Street, I go, this is right out of Norman

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Rockwell. And really the thing that got me is

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I pulled over and you know those boxes on the

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corner that they have the pamphlets in for real

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estate? Yes. Or newspapers. I said, let me grab

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one of them. And I grabbed one of them and I

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saw two bedroom, two bath, fireplace, condo,

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$75 ,000. That's a down payment in New York.

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And I go, $75 ,000, the total price. I go, that's

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it. Call the real estate. They took me to a place

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and that was it. I said, okay, I'm all in. And

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that's how I ended up here. Yeah, it's beautiful.

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And I love it. It's a beautiful father country.

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Yeah. All right. Well, then let's start the very

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beginning of your timeline then. So tell me where

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you were born and tell me a little bit about

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your family dynamic, what your parents did, how

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many siblings. Oh, terrific. Terrific question.

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Born in the Bronx. Went to Catholic school in

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the Bronx. My father was a New York City firefighter.

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He worked in the South Bronx during what they

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call the war years in the 70s. And so that was

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the beginning of, you know, and then the Bronx

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started to get a little, the neighborhood started

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to get not so nice. And then, you know, he wanted

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the American dream. We lived in a small house

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attached on both sides with a little tiny backyard.

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And, you know, every fireman at that time were

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moving, you know. more prop, you know, for his

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family. We had, he had three or four kids by

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that time and he wanted to move out to Long Island,

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bigger house, backyard, all that kind of stuff.

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I hated it. I loved the city. I loved living

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in the Bronx. I thought it was great. And when

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he came home one day and said, you know, we're

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moving to Lindenhurst. And I'm like, Lindenhurst,

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what's a Lindenhurst? And that was out on Long

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Island. And I'm like, I actually, me and my buddies

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took a subway and then a Long Island railroad

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just to see what it looked like. And I hated

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it. I hated it. I didn't want to leave the Bronx.

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But in the summer of 69, my father packed up

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the truck and we looked like the Beverly Hillbillies.

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And we moved out to Lindenhurst, Long Island.

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And then I had to had to adapt to living out

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there. And, you know, it wasn't terrible. It

00:10:04.919 --> 00:10:06.779
wasn't terrible. But I just when you're born

00:10:06.779 --> 00:10:08.559
and raised in the city and that's what you know,

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you know, that that's really what you wanted

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to do. So and then, you know, I had four kids

00:10:14.960 --> 00:10:17.740
at the time. You know, three boys and a girl.

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Relatives were out there and tried to have the

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best life we could out there. And we did pretty

00:10:24.000 --> 00:10:27.200
good. What was some of the fires you remember

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your dad telling you about? Because, I mean,

00:10:29.139 --> 00:10:32.139
the war years of those, you know, boroughs at

00:10:32.139 --> 00:10:34.039
that time are revered, I think, even to this

00:10:34.039 --> 00:10:37.000
day in the fire service. Oh, and then, yeah,

00:10:37.100 --> 00:10:39.039
the New York Fire Service in the war years. And

00:10:39.039 --> 00:10:41.980
I worked part of those war years myself. So I

00:10:41.980 --> 00:10:44.039
got a taste, a little taste of it as the city

00:10:44.039 --> 00:10:45.779
started to turn around with Giuliani actually

00:10:45.779 --> 00:10:48.340
turned the city around a little bit. But to be

00:10:48.340 --> 00:10:49.799
honest with you, you know, he came home from

00:10:49.799 --> 00:10:53.220
work and he really never. I guess it's like somebody

00:10:53.220 --> 00:10:54.960
that was a war veteran. They don't want to talk

00:10:54.960 --> 00:10:57.620
about it only among their clique of friends.

00:10:58.200 --> 00:11:00.460
And here and there. Yeah, he would say he would

00:11:00.460 --> 00:11:02.779
mention something about it. But the one thing

00:11:02.779 --> 00:11:05.080
I distinctly remember, two things about it, which

00:11:05.080 --> 00:11:08.100
really led me to take the fire service. Not that

00:11:08.100 --> 00:11:09.720
he's he's to come home. He used to smell like

00:11:09.720 --> 00:11:13.259
a fireplace. I mean, it was in his hair. It was

00:11:13.259 --> 00:11:15.840
in his skin. It was in his, you know, and plus

00:11:15.840 --> 00:11:19.100
where he worked was the South Bronx in the height

00:11:19.100 --> 00:11:21.259
of the in the one of the busiest companies in

00:11:21.259 --> 00:11:23.240
the city. There was a book called Report from

00:11:23.240 --> 00:11:26.340
Engine Company 82 years ago. He was the next

00:11:26.340 --> 00:11:28.899
firehouse next to that one. So they were just

00:11:28.899 --> 00:11:31.460
as busy as Report from Engine 82. He knew all

00:11:31.460 --> 00:11:33.860
those guys. He worked with them, but he rarely

00:11:33.860 --> 00:11:36.639
talked about it. But the one thing kind of convinced

00:11:36.639 --> 00:11:39.039
me a little bit as I was getting I was going

00:11:39.039 --> 00:11:41.129
to college. I was starting to get. you know,

00:11:41.129 --> 00:11:47.649
leaving college. And I just remember him, they

00:11:47.649 --> 00:11:49.490
would have these firehouse parties and picnics

00:11:49.490 --> 00:11:53.389
and stuff. And I, you know, some of my other

00:11:53.389 --> 00:11:55.809
friends' parents that I would meet in whatever

00:11:55.809 --> 00:11:59.049
job they have, they weren't that happy about

00:11:59.049 --> 00:12:01.070
it. You know, they were like, oh my God, I got

00:12:01.070 --> 00:12:02.830
to commute. The boss is a pain in the neck. And

00:12:02.830 --> 00:12:05.090
they just hired a new guy and they promoted him

00:12:05.090 --> 00:12:06.950
ahead of me and all this stuff that goes on with

00:12:06.950 --> 00:12:10.240
corporate and... And then we would go to like

00:12:10.240 --> 00:12:14.200
a firehouse party with all of these men. And

00:12:14.200 --> 00:12:17.600
one was funnier than the next. They were all

00:12:17.600 --> 00:12:19.500
like your favorite uncle, favorite funny uncle,

00:12:19.620 --> 00:12:23.440
hysterically funny, all big, handsome, strong

00:12:23.440 --> 00:12:26.259
guys. And I just remember looking at that going,

00:12:26.399 --> 00:12:28.820
wow, there must be something to this. These guys

00:12:28.820 --> 00:12:30.840
are just laughing and having so much fun and

00:12:30.840 --> 00:12:33.419
not complaining about their jobs and stuff like

00:12:33.419 --> 00:12:36.529
that. And then he. Took me to the firehouse a

00:12:36.529 --> 00:12:39.230
couple of times, which is 88 Engine in the Bronx.

00:12:39.350 --> 00:12:41.190
Any firefighters that first respond to listen

00:12:41.190 --> 00:12:43.769
and they'll know that company. 88 Engine and

00:12:43.769 --> 00:12:48.750
38 Truck in the Bronx. And I do remember him

00:12:48.750 --> 00:12:51.970
taking me to the firehouse and just look at,

00:12:52.009 --> 00:12:53.590
you know, I was eight years old and I'm watching

00:12:53.590 --> 00:12:56.549
these men that are like, I mean, they were just,

00:12:56.629 --> 00:12:59.230
they seemed gigantic to me. And they were all

00:12:59.230 --> 00:13:02.809
handsome and had deep voices and just the tip.

00:13:03.419 --> 00:13:06.240
Toxic masculinity to the 10th degree, actually,

00:13:06.240 --> 00:13:11.519
which was OK. And I was like, wow. So I just

00:13:11.519 --> 00:13:15.940
took that all in. And then I unfortunately, me

00:13:15.940 --> 00:13:18.480
and my father used to butt heads a lot. You know,

00:13:18.500 --> 00:13:21.259
I was your typical arrogant, spoiled teenager.

00:13:21.559 --> 00:13:24.279
And, you know, I was I was not I did not want

00:13:24.279 --> 00:13:26.019
to be a fireman. I wanted to be everything but

00:13:26.019 --> 00:13:28.940
that opposite of what he did. But I'll never

00:13:28.940 --> 00:13:32.830
forget when they started listing the test. the

00:13:32.830 --> 00:13:36.909
test was available. He said, listen, you know,

00:13:36.929 --> 00:13:38.970
he was pretty, he was pretty strict. He was a

00:13:38.970 --> 00:13:42.529
golden gloves boxer actually. And he said to

00:13:42.529 --> 00:13:44.029
me, he goes, listen, you don't have to take the

00:13:44.029 --> 00:13:47.750
job, but you're taking the test. You can turn

00:13:47.750 --> 00:13:49.509
it down when it comes up, but don't be an idiot.

00:13:50.029 --> 00:13:52.210
Take the, I don't want to be a fireman like you,

00:13:52.330 --> 00:13:54.370
you know, you know, some people want to be exactly

00:13:54.370 --> 00:13:56.309
like their father. And if you battle with them,

00:13:56.350 --> 00:13:58.450
you want to be the opposite, but you don't want

00:13:58.450 --> 00:14:00.210
to cut your nose off to spite your face. So I

00:14:00.210 --> 00:14:02.679
said, you know what? I'll train for it and I'll

00:14:02.679 --> 00:14:04.539
take it. I was just getting out of college at

00:14:04.539 --> 00:14:07.899
the time too. And I went on a couple of interviews

00:14:07.899 --> 00:14:10.539
and I remember on the interview, the guy saying

00:14:10.539 --> 00:14:12.440
to me, well, you know, the first week you get

00:14:12.440 --> 00:14:16.320
five days vacation, you know, two sick days.

00:14:17.039 --> 00:14:19.840
And then I, he took me around to this corporate

00:14:19.840 --> 00:14:23.639
type job and nobody looked happy. And I'm like

00:14:23.639 --> 00:14:25.700
five days vacation after a year. And he goes,

00:14:25.720 --> 00:14:27.179
yeah, if you put five years in, then you get

00:14:27.179 --> 00:14:29.820
two weeks. And the fire department actually started

00:14:29.820 --> 00:14:34.080
with. five weeks vacation the first year. And

00:14:34.080 --> 00:14:37.000
I was like, wow, okay, so there's that. The guy

00:14:37.000 --> 00:14:39.340
seemed like a lot of fun. I don't know about

00:14:39.340 --> 00:14:41.299
the running into burning buildings thing. I never

00:14:41.299 --> 00:14:44.779
did that. I mean, I was in the military too.

00:14:44.860 --> 00:14:46.419
I was in the Air Force. So I was familiar with

00:14:46.419 --> 00:14:48.919
basic training and what that's all about. And

00:14:48.919 --> 00:14:50.480
I didn't want to go through that again. I didn't

00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:52.720
want to go through paramilitary basic training

00:14:52.720 --> 00:14:55.500
uniforms. Yes, sir, no, sir. And the thing that

00:14:55.500 --> 00:14:59.590
really took me over the top is I wanted to train.

00:14:59.649 --> 00:15:01.169
I was in really good shape at the time. I wanted

00:15:01.169 --> 00:15:04.389
to train specifically to pass the physical and

00:15:04.389 --> 00:15:06.649
do well on it and get a good list number. While

00:15:06.649 --> 00:15:09.090
I was there, I met a fellow friend of mine who,

00:15:09.169 --> 00:15:12.629
Tom Pellegrino is his name. He wanted to be a

00:15:12.629 --> 00:15:14.590
New York City farmer since he came out of the

00:15:14.590 --> 00:15:17.870
womb. So he knew everything about it. And he

00:15:17.870 --> 00:15:21.539
was telling me, I met him at the, you know. You

00:15:21.539 --> 00:15:24.200
had to throw a 120 -pound dummy over your shoulder,

00:15:24.279 --> 00:15:25.840
run up a flight of stairs, come down, and everything

00:15:25.840 --> 00:15:28.360
was timed. And he was really skinny, and he couldn't

00:15:28.360 --> 00:15:30.679
do it. He was fumbling with it. I was in great

00:15:30.679 --> 00:15:32.139
shape at the time. I don't want to brag, but

00:15:32.139 --> 00:15:33.620
I threw the dummy over my shoulder, up and down

00:15:33.620 --> 00:15:35.080
the stairs, and threw it down like it was nothing.

00:15:35.419 --> 00:15:37.500
And he said to me, you've got to help me. I've

00:15:37.500 --> 00:15:39.940
been wanting to be a fireman. I get choked up.

00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:41.519
I wanted to be a fireman since I was a little

00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:44.279
kid, and I want this job so bad, but I'm only

00:15:44.279 --> 00:15:46.879
125 pounds. I can't do the dummy thing. Can you

00:15:46.879 --> 00:15:49.120
show me how you just did that? So we got to be

00:15:49.120 --> 00:15:52.019
friends. And, you know, I helped him work out

00:15:52.019 --> 00:15:54.179
and whatever. And he scored well, I scored well.

00:15:54.259 --> 00:15:56.019
And we wound up being in the same probationary

00:15:56.019 --> 00:15:58.440
firing class together. But the thing that took

00:15:58.440 --> 00:16:00.299
me over the top is that he knew everything about

00:16:00.299 --> 00:16:02.259
it. So did my father. But I was such a thick

00:16:02.259 --> 00:16:03.740
head, I didn't want to talk to him about it.

00:16:04.120 --> 00:16:07.200
But he said to me, and I always use this expression

00:16:07.200 --> 00:16:09.320
to the day, because, you know, when you're 23

00:16:09.320 --> 00:16:13.220
years old and somebody says to you, you know,

00:16:13.220 --> 00:16:15.840
at 45, you could get a pension. I didn't even

00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:18.600
know what a pension was, first of all. And I'm

00:16:18.600 --> 00:16:20.120
like, pension, what's that? He goes, you know,

00:16:20.120 --> 00:16:22.659
you work 20 years, you get half pay and medical

00:16:22.659 --> 00:16:25.879
and dental. But he knew everything about it.

00:16:25.899 --> 00:16:28.700
I'm like, how could you live on half pay if you

00:16:28.700 --> 00:16:30.220
can't live on full pay? He goes, no, with the

00:16:30.220 --> 00:16:32.019
taxes and the social security, you wind up with

00:16:32.019 --> 00:16:34.559
the same take home pay. It just was inconceivable

00:16:34.559 --> 00:16:37.539
to me. And then he says, and it's fun, Joe, these

00:16:37.539 --> 00:16:39.600
guys are great. Don't. And I says, Tom, I was

00:16:39.600 --> 00:16:41.379
in the military. I don't want to do the yes or

00:16:41.379 --> 00:16:44.799
no, sir. Press my unit. He goes, Joe. It's everything

00:16:44.799 --> 00:16:48.919
but that. It's a giant frat house with no disrespect

00:16:48.919 --> 00:16:50.740
to the fire department because New York fire

00:16:50.740 --> 00:16:54.259
department's the premier of them all. But as

00:16:54.259 --> 00:16:56.100
far as rules go, they were all out the window

00:16:56.100 --> 00:16:58.320
because they were so busy, which is what I liked.

00:16:58.340 --> 00:17:00.419
It was more like I didn't want to do the yes

00:17:00.419 --> 00:17:03.259
or no sort of thing. So we both got the same

00:17:03.259 --> 00:17:05.000
list number. We went to the training academy

00:17:05.000 --> 00:17:06.880
to get once I got in the training academy. That

00:17:06.880 --> 00:17:10.369
was it. I said, wow, this is. This is pretty

00:17:10.369 --> 00:17:14.190
damn nice and pretty fun and great. And the other

00:17:14.190 --> 00:17:16.190
thing was the people. I was meeting the same

00:17:16.190 --> 00:17:19.670
people that my father was friends with. But now

00:17:19.670 --> 00:17:21.789
they're all in their mid -20s, every one of them.

00:17:21.809 --> 00:17:24.289
And just as much fun and one guy funnier than

00:17:24.289 --> 00:17:27.569
the next. Just it attracts characters for some

00:17:27.569 --> 00:17:31.980
reason. And they certainly were. And yeah, so

00:17:31.980 --> 00:17:35.299
then I got assigned to Engine 319, which is a

00:17:35.299 --> 00:17:37.940
pretty slow firehouse in a rural section, not

00:17:37.940 --> 00:17:41.720
rural, but quiet section of Queens. But they

00:17:41.720 --> 00:17:45.000
were so the certain areas of Brooklyn and the

00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:48.180
Bronx and Manhattan was so busy that to give

00:17:48.180 --> 00:17:51.039
those guys a break every third night, we would

00:17:51.039 --> 00:17:53.599
go to East New York, Brooklyn. They would come

00:17:53.599 --> 00:17:56.819
by us to have a quiet night. So every third night

00:17:56.819 --> 00:17:59.490
I did get to have. what my father experienced

00:17:59.490 --> 00:18:02.509
the war years and it was everything like that

00:18:02.509 --> 00:18:06.369
i mean the area i was assigned in queens it was

00:18:06.369 --> 00:18:10.490
very quiet and nice neighborhood uh but when

00:18:10.490 --> 00:18:13.089
we went to east new york the minute we got into

00:18:13.089 --> 00:18:14.650
you could smell it the whole place smelled like

00:18:14.650 --> 00:18:18.490
fire and the minute we it was crazy to go from

00:18:18.490 --> 00:18:20.970
that quietness to the minute we would punch the

00:18:20.970 --> 00:18:24.730
computer that were online engine 332 respond

00:18:24.730 --> 00:18:28.259
to second alarm on the you know on livonia And

00:18:28.259 --> 00:18:30.279
we'd go to that one. We'd barely get that one

00:18:30.279 --> 00:18:33.680
out. And as soon as we got back to quarters,

00:18:33.799 --> 00:18:37.059
available again, oh, engine 332, respond to car

00:18:37.059 --> 00:18:40.319
fire. We'd go to that one. While we were out,

00:18:40.380 --> 00:18:42.799
sometimes at a car fire, they would say, engine

00:18:42.799 --> 00:18:48.359
332, they're short at a second alarm. Stop putting

00:18:48.359 --> 00:18:50.859
the car fire out, roll up your hoses, go to assist

00:18:50.859 --> 00:18:53.180
them. And what, just leave the car burning? Yeah,

00:18:53.200 --> 00:18:55.500
leave the car burning, just go to the next. It

00:18:55.500 --> 00:18:58.750
was that crazy. But for a person that's a fireman,

00:18:58.829 --> 00:19:01.849
that's what you want. You don't want to be quiet.

00:19:02.690 --> 00:19:05.910
And when I say this, no disrespect to people

00:19:05.910 --> 00:19:09.349
in smaller and rural communities. But often I'll

00:19:09.349 --> 00:19:11.809
pass the Safety Harbor Fire Department, and those

00:19:11.809 --> 00:19:13.710
guys have the similar training that we have.

00:19:13.769 --> 00:19:15.250
They just don't have the work. They call it the

00:19:15.250 --> 00:19:17.940
work. And I'm sure they're sitting there saying,

00:19:18.039 --> 00:19:20.740
geez, I wish the supermarket would go up in flames

00:19:20.740 --> 00:19:22.960
so we could go do our job, break doors down,

00:19:23.099 --> 00:19:25.220
break windows, save people. I mean, that's what

00:19:25.220 --> 00:19:26.400
you're trained to do and that's what you want

00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:30.099
to do. So I got to do it on a grand scale. When

00:19:30.099 --> 00:19:32.700
you look back, what was it that was causing so

00:19:32.700 --> 00:19:37.180
much fire in the war years? I think a lot of

00:19:37.180 --> 00:19:39.000
it had to do with the political administration

00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:43.130
at the time. They weren't. I don't know, they

00:19:43.130 --> 00:19:45.289
reduced the manpower in the fire department.

00:19:45.569 --> 00:19:47.630
I don't think they were using the words defund

00:19:47.630 --> 00:19:49.390
the police, but there was a tremendous amount

00:19:49.390 --> 00:19:52.430
of crime. And I think what started to happen

00:19:52.430 --> 00:19:57.750
was the amount of crime in a lot of these, they

00:19:57.750 --> 00:19:59.509
used to call them tenements, apartment buildings

00:19:59.509 --> 00:20:02.430
and stuff like that. The landlords were like,

00:20:02.730 --> 00:20:05.130
you know, these people aren't paying the rent

00:20:05.130 --> 00:20:08.759
anymore. We can't sell the building because the

00:20:08.759 --> 00:20:11.960
area's gone to hell. It's so much crime. Our

00:20:11.960 --> 00:20:16.000
only other alternative is Austin. So they would

00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:19.240
just torch these buildings like crazy. And the

00:20:19.240 --> 00:20:20.920
same thing with the cars. There was so much car

00:20:20.920 --> 00:20:23.960
theft going on for parts, for the car, you know.

00:20:24.359 --> 00:20:27.339
It really was the crime, but the crime led to

00:20:27.339 --> 00:20:31.400
the areas going downhill and the landlords can't

00:20:31.400 --> 00:20:33.960
rent them. They can't rent anymore. Now they

00:20:33.960 --> 00:20:35.839
can't sell the building. They have insurance.

00:20:36.640 --> 00:20:39.279
And they just hired somebody to torch the buildings.

00:20:39.740 --> 00:20:41.960
And that was part of it. And now as, you know,

00:20:41.960 --> 00:20:44.500
it started to become cumulative. Three houses

00:20:44.500 --> 00:20:46.799
on the block go on fire. Anybody else would say,

00:20:46.799 --> 00:20:49.079
like, I don't even want to try to sell it. I

00:20:49.079 --> 00:20:51.180
just might as well just torch it or abandon it.

00:20:51.400 --> 00:20:54.220
And if it stays abandoned long enough, vagrants

00:20:54.220 --> 00:20:58.099
get in there, drugs, light the places on fire.

00:20:58.180 --> 00:21:01.099
And it just was like, I mean, at one time, it's

00:21:01.099 --> 00:21:04.920
unheard of, but we were doing 25 to 30 runs a

00:21:04.920 --> 00:21:07.660
night. And three or four fires and two or three

00:21:07.660 --> 00:21:11.339
car fires. And you just go home. And now I know

00:21:11.339 --> 00:21:14.359
why my father smelled like a fireplace. I remember

00:21:14.359 --> 00:21:18.740
I was seeing some girl at the time and I took

00:21:18.740 --> 00:21:21.859
a shower, of course, and I washed it. But once

00:21:21.859 --> 00:21:23.680
that smoke is in your skin and your hair and

00:21:23.680 --> 00:21:25.480
I went out with her and she goes, what kind of

00:21:25.480 --> 00:21:30.500
cologne is that? It smells like smoke. I go,

00:21:30.519 --> 00:21:32.880
it's not cologne. She goes, didn't you? I go,

00:21:32.900 --> 00:21:34.980
yeah, of course I took a shower, but it gets

00:21:34.980 --> 00:21:39.779
in your pores, you know? So. Eau de Bombero.

00:21:40.619 --> 00:21:45.319
Eau de Bombero. I like that. I might take that.

00:21:45.380 --> 00:21:49.119
That's a good one. Eau de Bombero. It's so interesting

00:21:49.119 --> 00:21:51.880
when you kind of ask people that were boots on

00:21:51.880 --> 00:21:54.059
the ground, you know, in certain parts of our

00:21:54.059 --> 00:21:58.359
history or even now, and you actually get this

00:21:58.359 --> 00:22:01.369
firsthand experience. that there's a term false

00:22:01.369 --> 00:22:05.069
economy and it ties in so closely to so many

00:22:05.069 --> 00:22:07.910
different areas so let's take the criticism of

00:22:07.910 --> 00:22:09.569
the police at the moment you know they're aggressive

00:22:09.569 --> 00:22:11.490
and the way they're dressed they look like they're

00:22:11.490 --> 00:22:14.349
going to war and no one's saying no one's asking

00:22:14.349 --> 00:22:16.130
the question well why are our streets so dangerous

00:22:16.130 --> 00:22:18.650
that our cops have to dress like this that our

00:22:18.650 --> 00:22:20.269
cops are getting murdered almost every single

00:22:20.269 --> 00:22:23.130
day and it's the same with the war years in new

00:22:23.130 --> 00:22:25.170
york you know you reverse engineer well why were

00:22:25.170 --> 00:22:27.630
there so many fires And then you learn about

00:22:27.630 --> 00:22:29.609
the backstory and how many firefighters were

00:22:29.609 --> 00:22:33.210
killed from an arson fire that was caused through

00:22:33.210 --> 00:22:36.170
desperation and poverty and addiction. So when

00:22:36.170 --> 00:22:39.009
you peel back the onion, you realize that a lot

00:22:39.009 --> 00:22:41.990
of these incidences that we've had throughout

00:22:41.990 --> 00:22:46.829
history, including the one side great experience

00:22:46.829 --> 00:22:48.269
that you had as a firefighter with all these

00:22:48.269 --> 00:22:50.970
fires, but also obviously arguably putting a

00:22:50.970 --> 00:22:53.509
lot of firefighter lives in danger, was also

00:22:53.509 --> 00:22:57.200
ultimately preventable through... the politics

00:22:57.200 --> 00:23:00.599
side, if they'd be making proactive choices to

00:23:00.599 --> 00:23:02.660
actually invest in their community rather than

00:23:02.660 --> 00:23:08.099
the desperation that ultimately resulted. Yeah.

00:23:08.180 --> 00:23:10.279
And my father was very political. He was always

00:23:10.279 --> 00:23:13.599
on the radio with the administration and talk

00:23:13.599 --> 00:23:16.640
shows and trying to talk about the cutting manpower

00:23:16.640 --> 00:23:21.339
and cutting services. And it just leads to exactly

00:23:21.339 --> 00:23:23.920
what was going on. It's so obvious. And then,

00:23:23.960 --> 00:23:26.529
you know, Giuliani. No matter what you think

00:23:26.529 --> 00:23:29.170
of him, he did come in and turn things completely

00:23:29.170 --> 00:23:33.069
around. What about the crack epidemic? What was

00:23:33.069 --> 00:23:34.710
that like through your eyes? Because I know that

00:23:34.710 --> 00:23:37.769
was a massive problem in New York City. Well,

00:23:37.829 --> 00:23:40.410
there was always drugs. That always went on.

00:23:40.529 --> 00:23:43.970
I mean, that was going on in the 60s. And, you

00:23:43.970 --> 00:23:45.509
know, people, as much as they say what's going

00:23:45.509 --> 00:23:49.009
on today, you know, go back to 1969. It was LSD,

00:23:49.269 --> 00:23:53.369
Quaaludes, the hippie movement, drugs, crime.

00:23:54.279 --> 00:23:57.740
Kent State, you know, so it seems like things

00:23:57.740 --> 00:23:59.960
go through cycles. It gets really bad. Then you

00:23:59.960 --> 00:24:02.519
get a new policy and administration and they

00:24:02.519 --> 00:24:04.680
try to clean it up a little bit. Now they vote

00:24:04.680 --> 00:24:07.259
new people in. They do. If they're not on board

00:24:07.259 --> 00:24:09.619
with it, they let things start to deteriorate.

00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:12.140
And then it gets bad and then it gets good again.

00:24:12.200 --> 00:24:14.039
And it just does this. And it's been going on

00:24:14.039 --> 00:24:17.339
since, you know, I actually think since the beginning

00:24:17.339 --> 00:24:19.619
of time, it's not that much different. As much

00:24:19.619 --> 00:24:21.420
as people say, look what's going on in this world

00:24:21.420 --> 00:24:24.960
right now. i say go back to 1969 all the parents

00:24:24.960 --> 00:24:27.180
are like i'm not having kids there's drugs and

00:24:27.180 --> 00:24:31.339
lsd and you know so crack in itself yeah it was

00:24:31.339 --> 00:24:35.980
a bad thing but so was lsd in 1969 and there

00:24:35.980 --> 00:24:39.220
were riots and there was protests against the

00:24:39.220 --> 00:24:42.099
war and just all of that was going on i think

00:24:42.099 --> 00:24:45.920
we were too young to even realize it absolutely

00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:49.880
well when when you look back at this incredible

00:24:50.750 --> 00:24:53.109
band of brothers in this particular circumstance

00:24:53.109 --> 00:24:54.829
that you witnessed with your father's generation

00:24:54.829 --> 00:25:00.990
in FDNY, what elements of that do we need to

00:25:00.990 --> 00:25:04.250
reinforce to refine that part? I mean, I think

00:25:04.250 --> 00:25:06.670
there is truly a brotherhood and sisterhood in

00:25:06.670 --> 00:25:09.890
our profession, but there are elements of it

00:25:09.890 --> 00:25:11.789
that have, I think, challenged that as well,

00:25:11.829 --> 00:25:13.890
whether it's just simply geography that people

00:25:13.890 --> 00:25:15.910
can't afford to live where they work anymore,

00:25:16.009 --> 00:25:18.250
all the way through to, you know, lowering of

00:25:18.250 --> 00:25:21.619
standards and some other areas. When you kind

00:25:21.619 --> 00:25:23.440
of look back and you've got this multi -generational

00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:27.140
lens, how can we kind of refine some of the things

00:25:27.140 --> 00:25:29.920
that created such happiness and camaraderie in

00:25:29.920 --> 00:25:34.039
that generation? I still believe that the camaraderie

00:25:34.039 --> 00:25:38.500
and stuff exists, but whatever's going on in

00:25:38.500 --> 00:25:40.500
the world right now without getting too political

00:25:40.500 --> 00:25:46.880
by relaxing standards creates resentment. Listen,

00:25:46.960 --> 00:25:48.779
I have nothing against women being firefighters.

00:25:49.480 --> 00:25:51.980
Some of them are terrific firefighters, and maybe

00:25:51.980 --> 00:25:53.779
they always wanted to be a firefighter. But to

00:25:53.779 --> 00:25:58.240
relax the standards in a job that could cost

00:25:58.240 --> 00:26:03.339
you your life is – and it's not just that. Because

00:26:03.339 --> 00:26:05.420
of the camaraderie and, like you said, band of

00:26:05.420 --> 00:26:08.359
brothers and let's say band of sisters too, in

00:26:08.359 --> 00:26:11.740
order for that person – you're going to be judged

00:26:11.740 --> 00:26:15.220
when you're a new person anyway. But if you come

00:26:15.220 --> 00:26:18.599
in with – you relax the standards to let this

00:26:18.599 --> 00:26:21.539
person in, there's going to be more resentment.

00:26:22.619 --> 00:26:24.920
And, you know, so in other words, why wouldn't

00:26:24.920 --> 00:26:28.240
you, here's the test. It should be merit -based

00:26:28.240 --> 00:26:32.380
period. So, you know, if I have to do eight pull

00:26:32.380 --> 00:26:34.359
-ups to get on the job and somebody right next

00:26:34.359 --> 00:26:37.279
to me only has to do one only because she's a

00:26:37.279 --> 00:26:40.400
female, I don't believe that that's right. And

00:26:40.400 --> 00:26:43.099
especially in a job where pull -ups matter or

00:26:43.099 --> 00:26:46.319
strength matters. So because it's politically

00:26:46.319 --> 00:26:50.480
correct to let her in, and again, there are women

00:26:50.480 --> 00:26:52.460
that can do, I know somebody that can do eight

00:26:52.460 --> 00:26:55.000
pull -ups. God bless her. She should be on the

00:26:55.000 --> 00:26:56.480
fire department if that's what she wants to do,

00:26:56.539 --> 00:26:58.880
and she takes the same test I do. But to relax

00:26:58.880 --> 00:27:02.240
the standards for race, for gender, for stuff

00:27:02.240 --> 00:27:07.000
like that, it creates resentment towards, you

00:27:07.000 --> 00:27:09.059
know, the people that, you know, when they come

00:27:09.059 --> 00:27:11.319
in, you know, you're the newbie and you're going

00:27:11.319 --> 00:27:12.980
to be judged anyway. Now you come in and you

00:27:12.980 --> 00:27:16.069
say, hey, that's the... guy or a girl that got

00:27:16.069 --> 00:27:21.269
here because uh they you know they they didn't

00:27:21.269 --> 00:27:23.450
get the same physical we did and and you know

00:27:23.450 --> 00:27:25.309
then like you said it's multi -generational a

00:27:25.309 --> 00:27:30.309
lot of these sons got passed up like if you're

00:27:30.309 --> 00:27:34.289
list number 1001 and you're next to be hired

00:27:34.289 --> 00:27:35.450
and all of a sudden you said you got a letter

00:27:35.450 --> 00:27:37.430
you're not getting hired and you find out somebody

00:27:37.430 --> 00:27:39.950
else got hired pushed you pushed me back i was

00:27:39.950 --> 00:27:43.410
more qualified for them so that that's so And

00:27:43.410 --> 00:27:45.630
again, I don't know what the fire service can

00:27:45.630 --> 00:27:49.109
do to correct that. But I just don't believe

00:27:49.109 --> 00:27:52.190
in relaxing the standards in a job that's your

00:27:52.190 --> 00:27:54.630
life depends on your physical ability as well

00:27:54.630 --> 00:27:57.410
as your mental ability. Yeah, no, I agree completely.

00:27:57.529 --> 00:28:00.329
And it's funny because of all the professions,

00:28:00.589 --> 00:28:06.710
ours is so easy to test fairly. If you do a sequence

00:28:06.710 --> 00:28:09.230
of events that are all fire ground based, so

00:28:09.230 --> 00:28:12.289
you use actual hose. an inch and three quarter.

00:28:12.410 --> 00:28:14.529
You use a dummy that would be the average person.

00:28:14.769 --> 00:28:17.869
You carry tools. You climb stairs with a bundle

00:28:17.869 --> 00:28:20.369
on your shoulder. No one can say that's unfair.

00:28:20.690 --> 00:28:22.730
It doesn't matter who's inside that bunker gear,

00:28:22.829 --> 00:28:24.630
male, female, gay, straight, black, white, whatever.

00:28:24.869 --> 00:28:28.789
You can or you can't. And where I've seen the

00:28:28.789 --> 00:28:33.170
lowering of the bar, you're now insulting all

00:28:33.170 --> 00:28:35.230
the people of all the different backgrounds and

00:28:35.230 --> 00:28:38.519
genders and et cetera. who have risen to that

00:28:38.519 --> 00:28:40.839
bar it's an insult to them because they have

00:28:40.839 --> 00:28:43.420
risen up there the answer i think is the mentorship

00:28:43.420 --> 00:28:45.839
program because there were underserved groups

00:28:45.839 --> 00:28:48.480
that absolutely there was resistance to them

00:28:48.480 --> 00:28:50.460
getting in in certain departments at certain

00:28:50.460 --> 00:28:53.579
times in our history so you go into those groups

00:28:53.579 --> 00:28:56.900
you put mentorship programs in you challenge

00:28:56.900 --> 00:28:59.700
those young recruits to rise up you give them

00:28:59.700 --> 00:29:02.119
the tools to actually help them rise up now you

00:29:02.119 --> 00:29:04.519
get the best firefighters whether they're female

00:29:04.519 --> 00:29:06.589
whether they're you know You want a bunch of

00:29:06.589 --> 00:29:08.609
British firefighters. You have to go into the

00:29:08.609 --> 00:29:11.230
British community. But you don't give us all

00:29:11.230 --> 00:29:15.130
a job. You say, hey, here's the bar. We challenge

00:29:15.130 --> 00:29:18.309
you to meet it. So this is what's so sad is there

00:29:18.309 --> 00:29:21.910
was this kind of, you know, like scooping mentality.

00:29:21.990 --> 00:29:24.650
Just go get me 100 of this particular description

00:29:24.650 --> 00:29:28.170
rather than where are we missing the opportunity

00:29:28.170 --> 00:29:31.509
for some great, great firefighters. Go into those

00:29:31.509 --> 00:29:34.779
communities, mentor them. and challenge the ones

00:29:34.779 --> 00:29:36.880
that can meet the bar and then bring them in.

00:29:36.940 --> 00:29:38.559
They're going to be phenomenal firefighters then.

00:29:39.900 --> 00:29:41.740
Yeah, and the New York Fire Department did do

00:29:41.740 --> 00:29:45.079
that. I mean, I wasn't objecting to it, but my

00:29:45.079 --> 00:29:48.200
point is you put it in the newspaper. Here's

00:29:48.200 --> 00:29:50.220
a test available for the New York City Fire Department.

00:29:50.460 --> 00:29:53.619
Come and get it. Nobody drove into my neighborhood

00:29:53.619 --> 00:29:56.759
with a van with firemen on the side and knocked

00:29:56.759 --> 00:29:58.240
on my door and said, would you like to be a New

00:29:58.240 --> 00:30:00.920
York City fireman? Yet they did that for certain

00:30:00.920 --> 00:30:02.660
areas of the city because they needed to get

00:30:02.660 --> 00:30:06.619
more. of whatever race, gender, whatever, they're

00:30:06.619 --> 00:30:11.200
promoting it. But I just, it's open to you. You're

00:30:11.200 --> 00:30:13.299
not disadvantaged. The test is available for

00:30:13.299 --> 00:30:15.200
you. We don't have to drive into your neighborhood

00:30:15.200 --> 00:30:18.680
and knock on your door. So just go out there

00:30:18.680 --> 00:30:20.480
and test. And I've promoted it to many people.

00:30:21.519 --> 00:30:23.619
I think what's different in other parts of the

00:30:23.619 --> 00:30:25.740
country is a lot of us have to go to school and

00:30:25.740 --> 00:30:28.839
become firefighters first and EMTs and medics.

00:30:28.880 --> 00:30:31.079
And there's quite a large price tag attached

00:30:31.079 --> 00:30:34.039
to that. So I think there are communities where

00:30:34.039 --> 00:30:36.640
people just simply can't afford to be trained

00:30:36.640 --> 00:30:38.839
as a firefighter and then ultimately go into

00:30:38.839 --> 00:30:41.440
the career. So I think, you know, where they're

00:30:41.440 --> 00:30:44.299
not doing a civil service exam, this mentorship

00:30:44.299 --> 00:30:47.960
model is more appropriate. Because you're removing

00:30:47.960 --> 00:30:49.759
the barriers to entry. You're giving them the

00:30:49.759 --> 00:30:51.880
training, the scholarships for fire academy.

00:30:52.240 --> 00:30:54.759
And now you're getting young people who maybe

00:30:54.759 --> 00:30:56.920
just would never have been able to enter this

00:30:56.920 --> 00:31:01.460
job, given the opportunity to enter it. Yeah,

00:31:01.539 --> 00:31:03.599
you're right. The other departments in Florida

00:31:03.599 --> 00:31:05.579
in particular, you have to be certified first

00:31:05.579 --> 00:31:07.859
and then you apply like you're applying for a

00:31:07.859 --> 00:31:09.539
job. New York, it was just you take a written

00:31:09.539 --> 00:31:12.309
and a physical and you get a list number. Absolutely.

00:31:12.509 --> 00:31:14.089
All right. Well, I want to go all the way back

00:31:14.089 --> 00:31:15.769
because you mentioned physical fitness and I

00:31:15.769 --> 00:31:17.609
want to get your thoughts on standards in the

00:31:17.609 --> 00:31:20.130
department. We'll do that in a minute. When we

00:31:20.130 --> 00:31:22.230
go back to your early life, what were you playing

00:31:22.230 --> 00:31:27.430
and doing as far as sports and exercise? I just

00:31:27.430 --> 00:31:30.599
got into. You know, I was a 98 pound weakling

00:31:30.599 --> 00:31:33.059
in high school. I remember getting off the bus.

00:31:33.099 --> 00:31:35.039
I got picked on and bullied. I got off the bus.

00:31:35.059 --> 00:31:37.359
And when I got off the bus, there was a guy walking

00:31:37.359 --> 00:31:39.240
his dog that was like a monster. He looked like

00:31:39.240 --> 00:31:41.519
something out of Arnold Schwarzenegger. And he

00:31:41.519 --> 00:31:44.519
he asked me to come, you know, hey, kid, you

00:31:44.519 --> 00:31:46.579
want to mow my lawn? And he said, yeah, I'll

00:31:46.579 --> 00:31:48.420
teach you how to work out. So he took me in the

00:31:48.420 --> 00:31:50.519
gym and this guy was a monster. He's one of the

00:31:50.519 --> 00:31:52.160
first people in the United States to bench press

00:31:52.160 --> 00:31:55.539
500 pounds. And he took me in the gym. And once

00:31:55.539 --> 00:31:58.220
I and, you know, I was 17 or 16 at the time,

00:31:58.240 --> 00:32:00.019
the testosterone's flowing. The minute I started

00:32:00.019 --> 00:32:03.019
working out with weights, I just said, oh, this

00:32:03.019 --> 00:32:06.019
is I just thought it was fantastic. So my I never

00:32:06.019 --> 00:32:09.259
competed or anything in bodybuilding, but that

00:32:09.259 --> 00:32:12.880
was my forte. I just I just loved it. Everything

00:32:12.880 --> 00:32:15.099
about it. And then I got certified as a fitness

00:32:15.099 --> 00:32:18.599
trainer and a nutritionist. So when did you,

00:32:18.640 --> 00:32:20.579
was that prior to entering the fire service or

00:32:20.579 --> 00:32:21.880
was that when you already were in the uniform?

00:32:21.900 --> 00:32:24.119
Working out was prior to the fire service, which

00:32:24.119 --> 00:32:27.259
served me well because when the time came for

00:32:27.259 --> 00:32:30.000
the test, I was already, I didn't have to train

00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:33.819
physically for it. I was jacked for it. So that

00:32:33.819 --> 00:32:36.019
served me well. And then once I got on the fire

00:32:36.019 --> 00:32:38.759
department, I took an interest in helping other

00:32:38.759 --> 00:32:41.460
people and working out and stuff like that. So

00:32:41.460 --> 00:32:43.839
I said, let me go get certified, which that's

00:32:43.839 --> 00:32:48.019
really what led to the book, the cookbook. So

00:32:48.019 --> 00:32:50.319
what about fitness standards? You've obviously

00:32:50.319 --> 00:32:53.440
got some environments where there's nothing actually

00:32:53.440 --> 00:32:55.839
on paper because you just held to that high standard.

00:32:55.920 --> 00:32:57.460
I mean, obviously, some of our special forces,

00:32:57.460 --> 00:33:00.099
special operations, you know, they kind of self

00:33:00.099 --> 00:33:02.000
-govern. And if you can't do the job anymore,

00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:04.799
you're out. And then you've got obviously some

00:33:04.799 --> 00:33:07.279
places where they require a standard to be met.

00:33:07.359 --> 00:33:10.599
And then arguably, sadly, a lot of. places in

00:33:10.599 --> 00:33:12.680
our profession where there's no fitness standard

00:33:12.680 --> 00:33:15.299
where people look nostalgically at academy as

00:33:15.299 --> 00:33:17.700
the fittest they ever were which i think is completely

00:33:17.700 --> 00:33:20.640
wrong what was the environment that you entered

00:33:20.640 --> 00:33:25.819
in fdny in the war years which went from like

00:33:25.819 --> 00:33:33.680
80 1965 to 1999 maybe um and especially my father's

00:33:33.680 --> 00:33:36.630
era there was no there was no standards Once

00:33:36.630 --> 00:33:38.349
you pass the physical and you got on, that was

00:33:38.349 --> 00:33:40.049
it. They don't, once a year, I don't even think

00:33:40.049 --> 00:33:42.690
they give them a medical once a year. And then

00:33:42.690 --> 00:33:44.349
when I got on, it was the same thing. There was

00:33:44.349 --> 00:33:48.269
no like a yearly fitness test. I don't even think

00:33:48.269 --> 00:33:50.589
I had a yearly medical with the fire department,

00:33:50.630 --> 00:33:52.990
unless you got hurt or injured. But other than

00:33:52.990 --> 00:33:56.509
that, I don't recall probably the first 15 years

00:33:56.509 --> 00:33:58.690
that I was there. I don't recall ever being called

00:33:58.690 --> 00:34:01.230
out to, you got to go to the academy now and

00:34:01.230 --> 00:34:04.099
do a. stay or climb for under eight minutes.

00:34:04.160 --> 00:34:06.519
No fitness standards at all. I think it's different

00:34:06.519 --> 00:34:11.239
now. I think they have an annual physical and

00:34:11.239 --> 00:34:16.340
an annual standard for fitness. But during those

00:34:16.340 --> 00:34:20.539
years, no. And that's why, again, that was one

00:34:20.539 --> 00:34:22.079
of the other things that led to the book, too,

00:34:22.119 --> 00:34:24.380
is I was working with the guys that were getting

00:34:24.380 --> 00:34:29.710
heart attacks and they were obese. There was

00:34:29.710 --> 00:34:33.409
this machismo feeling that if I get, even though

00:34:33.409 --> 00:34:37.170
I'm 80 pounds overweight, once, once it comes

00:34:37.170 --> 00:34:39.329
time, I can do the job. Don't worry about it,

00:34:39.369 --> 00:34:43.130
kid. I'll make the long smoky hallway. You know,

00:34:43.130 --> 00:34:45.250
and meanwhile, you got six flights of stairs.

00:34:45.329 --> 00:34:48.510
They're down on the fourth, fourth, fourth floor

00:34:48.510 --> 00:34:51.210
landing sucking real estate because they got,

00:34:51.230 --> 00:34:53.809
they can't breathe. So yeah, they knew their

00:34:53.809 --> 00:34:56.809
stuff, but physically, and again, nobody wants

00:34:56.809 --> 00:34:59.360
to. die early from heart attack, heart disease

00:34:59.360 --> 00:35:01.260
and fire departments rife with that. You know

00:35:01.260 --> 00:35:03.480
what I mean? So I, that was the other thing that

00:35:03.480 --> 00:35:05.780
led to getting certified as a fitness trainer

00:35:05.780 --> 00:35:09.800
and the cooking thing too, because I always use

00:35:09.800 --> 00:35:12.960
that story. I was new. I didn't, I didn't cook

00:35:12.960 --> 00:35:15.980
at when I first got there, but you know, I just

00:35:15.980 --> 00:35:17.679
went along with the program and they're like,

00:35:17.760 --> 00:35:19.380
ah, you're in on dinner. Yeah, of course. You

00:35:19.380 --> 00:35:21.719
know, and the guy's making mashed potatoes and

00:35:21.719 --> 00:35:23.440
he's peeling sticks of butter like they were

00:35:23.440 --> 00:35:25.960
bananas and throwing sticks of butter in it.

00:35:26.679 --> 00:35:29.300
And I'm like, wow, this is like heavy eating

00:35:29.300 --> 00:35:32.579
to be doing at nine o 'clock at night. You know,

00:35:32.599 --> 00:35:36.059
and the ice cream and and all of that's wonderful

00:35:36.059 --> 00:35:38.179
if you're a fit and you have it once in a while.

00:35:38.239 --> 00:35:40.800
But these guys, some of them were really obese

00:35:40.800 --> 00:35:42.880
and a few of them did. They wound up having heart

00:35:42.880 --> 00:35:46.179
attacks. This is, I think, what's sad when you

00:35:46.179 --> 00:35:48.500
hear people saying, well, they can still do the

00:35:48.500 --> 00:35:51.800
job. Yeah, you can. But you could do the job

00:35:51.800 --> 00:35:54.559
so much better if you actually lost. the weight

00:35:54.559 --> 00:35:56.119
and then you don't have to look like a damn,

00:35:56.239 --> 00:35:58.880
you know, Ken doll model. You know what I mean?

00:35:58.900 --> 00:36:01.400
You don't have to have six pack abs, but being

00:36:01.400 --> 00:36:04.159
a healthy body weight, how much better of a firefighter

00:36:04.159 --> 00:36:06.519
will you be? So saying, yeah, I can, you know,

00:36:06.519 --> 00:36:09.719
make it on a single story, um, you know, single

00:36:09.719 --> 00:36:12.739
family dwelling structure fire. Okay. But like

00:36:12.739 --> 00:36:15.099
you said, the moment you get that 10 story climb

00:36:15.099 --> 00:36:17.389
with a hundred pounds of gear on your back. What

00:36:17.389 --> 00:36:19.650
are you going to do then? So I think that kind

00:36:19.650 --> 00:36:21.590
of argument is null and void. Okay, that's the

00:36:21.590 --> 00:36:23.670
bare minimum. Congratulations, you probably could

00:36:23.670 --> 00:36:25.250
scrape through on that fire, but that's not why

00:36:25.250 --> 00:36:27.550
we're wearing the uniform. Your goal is to be

00:36:27.550 --> 00:36:30.730
as prepared as you can be. So if you can be a

00:36:30.730 --> 00:36:33.090
great firefighter with 50 pounds of extra weight

00:36:33.090 --> 00:36:35.389
on you, imagine how much better you would be

00:36:35.389 --> 00:36:41.050
if you were a healthy weight. Well, the machismo

00:36:41.050 --> 00:36:44.309
factor of the fire service, unfortunately, is

00:36:44.309 --> 00:36:46.110
exactly what I said, and especially if you're

00:36:46.250 --> 00:36:49.369
take it to New York, which is the Machismo 2

00:36:49.369 --> 00:36:53.690
.0. And they're of the thinking that if I get,

00:36:53.690 --> 00:36:55.909
you know, once the time, when the call comes

00:36:55.909 --> 00:36:57.630
and I got to do what I got to do, I'll make it

00:36:57.630 --> 00:37:00.550
up to that landing. And they didn't. And, you

00:37:00.550 --> 00:37:04.070
know, for me, especially as a newer person, to

00:37:04.070 --> 00:37:07.289
even suggest that you, you know, you get these

00:37:07.289 --> 00:37:10.690
grizzled Harlem, South Bronx firefighters, like,

00:37:10.710 --> 00:37:12.989
and you say, listen, you can't even do a pull

00:37:12.989 --> 00:37:15.360
-up. What if I was hanging out the window and

00:37:15.360 --> 00:37:16.400
you had to pull me, you can't even pull your

00:37:16.400 --> 00:37:18.780
own body weight up, you know, and then you get

00:37:18.780 --> 00:37:20.840
it. Now you're into a machismo argument with

00:37:20.840 --> 00:37:24.739
the person. The job isn't about pull -ups. No,

00:37:24.820 --> 00:37:26.659
it isn't, but you may be called upon to, you

00:37:26.659 --> 00:37:28.780
know, so you never try to do it by promotion.

00:37:28.960 --> 00:37:31.820
You try to do it by attraction. You just work

00:37:31.820 --> 00:37:34.579
out, you do your thing. You end up on the sixth

00:37:34.579 --> 00:37:37.199
floor with the tools necessary and you break

00:37:37.199 --> 00:37:38.920
the door down. He's down on the fourth landing,

00:37:39.019 --> 00:37:42.039
can't even catch his breath. Later on the sly.

00:37:42.619 --> 00:37:45.619
He'll ask you like, hey, Joe, listen, I don't

00:37:45.619 --> 00:37:47.019
want to say anything to anybody, but I got to

00:37:47.019 --> 00:37:48.639
I got to lose some weight. Can you give me some

00:37:48.639 --> 00:37:51.679
information on what I need to do to, you know,

00:37:51.679 --> 00:37:53.940
because they know eventually it's going to they're

00:37:53.940 --> 00:37:55.579
not going to be able to do their job and eventually

00:37:55.579 --> 00:37:58.219
might hurt them off the job getting heart attack,

00:37:58.280 --> 00:38:01.079
heart disease, that kind of thing. And, you know,

00:38:01.099 --> 00:38:05.119
listen, there's a vanity side to it, too. You

00:38:05.119 --> 00:38:09.619
know, I work with guys like. It used to be comical

00:38:09.619 --> 00:38:12.079
to me in a way, because, you know, here's a guy

00:38:12.079 --> 00:38:14.699
with a, he's, he's 50 years old with a 50 inch

00:38:14.699 --> 00:38:19.380
waist and he just got divorced. And he's like,

00:38:19.460 --> 00:38:21.619
Hey Joe, listen, tell me some clubs I can go

00:38:21.619 --> 00:38:24.460
to. Maybe I can go online and meet some girls.

00:38:24.480 --> 00:38:26.119
And I go, yeah, all right, well, we'll type in,

00:38:26.159 --> 00:38:28.659
you know, 50 year old fireman, 50 inch waist.

00:38:28.699 --> 00:38:30.760
No, don't put 50 inch waist. They go, well, that's

00:38:30.760 --> 00:38:34.800
what you have. And, you know, typical fireman,

00:38:34.820 --> 00:38:36.550
you know, they would. Excuse the language. They

00:38:36.550 --> 00:38:38.250
would grab their crotch and go, this is all that

00:38:38.250 --> 00:38:41.250
matters. I'm like, that's all that matters. You

00:38:41.250 --> 00:38:46.489
can't even see it over your stomach. So I go,

00:38:46.510 --> 00:38:48.230
listen, you don't have to be Arnold Schwarzenegger.

00:38:48.230 --> 00:38:50.610
But listen, a female would like to see a reasonably

00:38:50.610 --> 00:38:53.849
fit person. You know, you think you're getting

00:38:53.849 --> 00:38:55.190
divorced and you're going to go out there with

00:38:55.190 --> 00:38:58.150
your Calvin Klein's jeans and your and your gold

00:38:58.150 --> 00:39:00.449
chains and your 50 inch waist. And, you know,

00:39:00.469 --> 00:39:01.690
you're losing your hair and you're going to be

00:39:01.690 --> 00:39:04.989
like, oh, yeah, just. Yeah. I'm just going to

00:39:04.989 --> 00:39:07.210
be out there pumping and dumping them. That's

00:39:07.210 --> 00:39:08.650
it. That's what I'm going to do. I go, yeah,

00:39:08.690 --> 00:39:12.329
good luck. You know, so there's a vanity side

00:39:12.329 --> 00:39:15.590
to it, too. Again, you don't have to be, you

00:39:15.590 --> 00:39:17.630
know, Arnold Schwarzenegger or, like you said,

00:39:17.690 --> 00:39:20.849
a Ken doll, but reasonably fit. That's all anybody

00:39:20.849 --> 00:39:23.269
could ask for. You want to take it to the next

00:39:23.269 --> 00:39:26.329
level, great. You could do that, too. But, you

00:39:26.329 --> 00:39:27.969
know, like I said, as a firefighter, and you

00:39:27.969 --> 00:39:31.690
have a public image. You know, I've seen it where

00:39:31.690 --> 00:39:34.619
women are like, that guy's a fireman. Well, that

00:39:34.619 --> 00:39:37.719
guy's a policeman. Oh my God. How does he, and

00:39:37.719 --> 00:39:41.260
you know, somehow they do do the job and they,

00:39:41.380 --> 00:39:44.159
you know, and this is no disrespect to any, and

00:39:44.159 --> 00:39:45.960
I don't mean when I say this, it's no disrespect

00:39:45.960 --> 00:39:49.519
to any firefighter that's let himself go. Just

00:39:49.519 --> 00:39:53.360
let's get it back for your longevity. I didn't

00:39:53.360 --> 00:39:54.960
listen. I want to talk to guys till they're 90.

00:39:55.960 --> 00:39:58.300
Like when I do the fitness seminars that that's

00:39:58.300 --> 00:40:00.659
what I said to people, they go, I call it the

00:40:00.659 --> 00:40:03.909
screw the city workout program. And they go,

00:40:03.949 --> 00:40:06.050
what is that? I go, listen, you're never going

00:40:06.050 --> 00:40:07.949
to get paid enough to do what you do, risk your

00:40:07.949 --> 00:40:11.630
life, all right? And every contract comes up,

00:40:11.650 --> 00:40:13.150
you're like, hey, screw the city, screw the city.

00:40:13.750 --> 00:40:16.190
I go, listen, we all deserve a bigger raise if

00:40:16.190 --> 00:40:17.530
we don't get it. You know how you could screw

00:40:17.530 --> 00:40:19.949
the city? You retire and collect your pension

00:40:19.949 --> 00:40:23.829
until you're 100. Get them for 40 years of your

00:40:23.829 --> 00:40:26.469
pension after you retire at 60. Get 40 years

00:40:26.469 --> 00:40:28.809
of your pension. But the average firefighter,

00:40:28.809 --> 00:40:30.909
actually, the statistic is it doesn't last 10

00:40:30.909 --> 00:40:33.570
years past his retirement. I don't know what

00:40:33.570 --> 00:40:36.369
the statistic is now, but that was then. So the

00:40:36.369 --> 00:40:38.949
best way to screw the city, yeah, we'd all like

00:40:38.949 --> 00:40:41.690
to get a bigger raise, is keep in great shape,

00:40:41.769 --> 00:40:45.170
do your job, you know, and collect your pension

00:40:45.170 --> 00:40:49.329
until you're 101. Absolutely. My granddad, I

00:40:49.329 --> 00:40:51.809
remember when he hit the year where he'd been

00:40:51.809 --> 00:40:55.409
retired longer than he'd been alive. And he worked

00:40:55.409 --> 00:40:57.710
for an insurance company, so he was just like

00:40:57.710 --> 00:41:00.329
a genius with numbers. But I think he retired

00:41:00.329 --> 00:41:04.239
in his 50s, I think. early early 50s and he lived

00:41:04.239 --> 00:41:07.519
to be 100 basically he died of cancer but uh

00:41:07.519 --> 00:41:11.280
you know so he he smashed it yeah that's the

00:41:11.280 --> 00:41:16.619
best way to get him back so i want to get to

00:41:16.619 --> 00:41:18.599
some of you know the the firehouse or the the

00:41:18.599 --> 00:41:20.400
cause as well but seeing as we open the door

00:41:20.400 --> 00:41:22.599
for strength and conditioning and nutrition so

00:41:22.599 --> 00:41:24.340
you walk through the door you know you've got

00:41:24.340 --> 00:41:27.039
this background as an athlete yourself now tactical

00:41:27.039 --> 00:41:30.739
athlete as we like to say what what was the journey

00:41:30.739 --> 00:41:33.699
from the nutrition side through to ultimately

00:41:33.699 --> 00:41:38.920
creating a cookbook perfect example small crew

00:41:38.920 --> 00:41:42.280
that we work with especially an older firehouse

00:41:42.280 --> 00:41:44.039
slower firehouse that's where all the guys go

00:41:44.039 --> 00:41:47.400
to retire and that's where i worked with most

00:41:47.400 --> 00:41:50.139
of the older guys that were on or near retirement

00:41:50.139 --> 00:41:53.019
and they weren't looking to you know it wasn't

00:41:53.019 --> 00:41:54.699
a really super busy firehouse so you didn't get

00:41:54.699 --> 00:41:57.440
that kind of mentality they had it they did their

00:41:57.440 --> 00:41:59.340
time in a busy place but now they're on cruise

00:41:59.340 --> 00:42:03.260
control so And once in a while, you know, and

00:42:03.260 --> 00:42:05.539
plus I wanted to stay fit. I took part in the

00:42:05.539 --> 00:42:08.039
meals and I took part in it for sticks of butter

00:42:08.039 --> 00:42:09.980
and the mashed potatoes. And it certainly was

00:42:09.980 --> 00:42:11.900
delicious. And there was some fantastic cooks.

00:42:11.940 --> 00:42:14.599
I go, you know, if I keep eating like this, I'm

00:42:14.599 --> 00:42:17.360
going to end up like that. So I'd like to, you

00:42:17.360 --> 00:42:19.119
know, plus if you're exercising, nutrition is

00:42:19.119 --> 00:42:22.800
two thirds of it. So I said, yeah, listen, fellas,

00:42:22.860 --> 00:42:24.440
I'm going to cook tonight. What do you say? All

00:42:24.440 --> 00:42:26.800
right, we'll give you a shot. So then I would

00:42:26.800 --> 00:42:29.929
experiment with things like. putting roasted

00:42:29.929 --> 00:42:32.150
garlic and mashed potatoes instead of butter,

00:42:32.250 --> 00:42:36.869
you know, and skim milk and roasted garlic and

00:42:36.869 --> 00:42:39.030
seasonings. Same with the meats. I would season

00:42:39.030 --> 00:42:41.889
the meats. If I made a meatloaf, I would put

00:42:41.889 --> 00:42:44.329
it on a rack so a lot of the fat would drain

00:42:44.329 --> 00:42:47.050
off into the bottom. And then I would leave it

00:42:47.050 --> 00:42:48.590
and I would say in the morning, I go, see all

00:42:48.590 --> 00:42:50.670
of this in the bottom that's hardened? That would

00:42:50.670 --> 00:42:54.610
be in your veins. So the food tasted just as

00:42:54.610 --> 00:42:57.309
good. With mild adjustments, you had to be careful

00:42:57.309 --> 00:42:59.789
because the mentality always was, ah, you can't

00:42:59.789 --> 00:43:02.510
put out fires on rabbit food and anything. I

00:43:02.510 --> 00:43:05.809
need salad every day. And just you hear all the,

00:43:05.809 --> 00:43:09.269
you know, typical things that people would say

00:43:09.269 --> 00:43:12.349
when nutrition comes into it. But I think what

00:43:12.349 --> 00:43:15.329
got them is that, you know, if you're eating

00:43:15.329 --> 00:43:18.809
for fitness and bodybuilding or whatever, you're

00:43:18.809 --> 00:43:23.889
eating fairly big meals to maintain your. muscle

00:43:23.889 --> 00:43:26.110
size and definition and all that other stuff

00:43:26.110 --> 00:43:28.329
so it wasn't like i was eating salads i was eating

00:43:28.329 --> 00:43:32.070
big portion of chicken big portion of rice big

00:43:32.070 --> 00:43:34.349
you know but there were ways to clean it up a

00:43:34.349 --> 00:43:37.369
little bit without getting crazy you know and

00:43:37.369 --> 00:43:40.010
then i said listen maybe you need to take it

00:43:40.010 --> 00:43:42.050
to the next level for three months until you

00:43:42.050 --> 00:43:44.989
get fit and then maybe once a week you cheat

00:43:44.989 --> 00:43:46.789
and have something that you really like cheesecake

00:43:46.789 --> 00:43:50.500
pie ice cream whatever it is that you like So

00:43:50.500 --> 00:43:53.400
little by little, I started to cook like that.

00:43:54.519 --> 00:43:56.320
And again, I had to be careful because I'm new

00:43:56.320 --> 00:43:59.340
and you don't want to ruffle any feathers. And

00:43:59.340 --> 00:44:00.980
little by little, they're like, hey, this is

00:44:00.980 --> 00:44:02.440
pretty good. You know, this isn't bad. I could

00:44:02.440 --> 00:44:05.519
do this. So I made it sort of like I can do this

00:44:05.519 --> 00:44:07.639
thing. It's not going to be rabbit food. It's

00:44:07.639 --> 00:44:08.980
not going to be just salad with no dressing.

00:44:09.059 --> 00:44:12.780
It's going to be, you know, so made it approachable

00:44:12.780 --> 00:44:15.579
or relatable. Like I can do this. You know what

00:44:15.579 --> 00:44:18.780
I mean? And so attraction worked better than

00:44:18.780 --> 00:44:22.360
promotion. They see the way you eat. They, you

00:44:22.360 --> 00:44:25.320
know, like I would watch guys like try all these

00:44:25.320 --> 00:44:29.059
wacky diets, like cabbage soup diet and this

00:44:29.059 --> 00:44:31.840
thing and the keto and all these crazy. I go

00:44:31.840 --> 00:44:33.460
and, you know, they used to make fun of me. He

00:44:33.460 --> 00:44:36.860
goes, the guy eats two chickens a day. Me meaning.

00:44:37.340 --> 00:44:39.719
And I did. I was having like half a chicken at

00:44:39.719 --> 00:44:41.679
lunch and half a chicken at five o 'clock. He

00:44:41.679 --> 00:44:43.199
goes, the guy's eating all day and he doesn't

00:44:43.199 --> 00:44:46.300
gain any weight. I go, well, doesn't that tell

00:44:46.300 --> 00:44:49.639
you something? You're eating cabbage soup, smelling

00:44:49.639 --> 00:44:51.280
up the whole firehouse, and you still haven't

00:44:51.280 --> 00:44:55.940
lost any weight. You know? So it was a comedy.

00:44:56.000 --> 00:44:58.920
It was a comedy show to boot, but the serious

00:44:58.920 --> 00:45:03.300
side of it was the health and, you know. So apparently

00:45:03.300 --> 00:45:04.860
I approached it all right because I didn't really

00:45:04.860 --> 00:45:08.900
get too much kickback. You said attraction works

00:45:08.900 --> 00:45:12.519
better than promotion. When it started in...

00:45:12.829 --> 00:45:15.269
my second last department i carried through to

00:45:15.269 --> 00:45:18.070
the last one the one before that we had a culture

00:45:18.070 --> 00:45:21.389
of of exercise so we would play sports together

00:45:21.389 --> 00:45:23.590
we work out together it was just ingrained there

00:45:23.590 --> 00:45:26.170
were no needs for fitness standards because it

00:45:26.170 --> 00:45:27.829
was there and if they had fitness standards you

00:45:27.829 --> 00:45:30.329
know 90 the department would have smashed it

00:45:30.329 --> 00:45:33.670
without you know put changing anything when i

00:45:33.670 --> 00:45:35.590
go to the next one back on the east coast you

00:45:35.590 --> 00:45:38.199
know the it's a different um kettle of fish there

00:45:38.199 --> 00:45:40.280
are some phenomenal athletes all the way through

00:45:40.280 --> 00:45:42.679
to the gentleman that you just described trying

00:45:42.679 --> 00:45:46.460
to get back into the dating game um in my station

00:45:46.460 --> 00:45:49.440
i started doing it was crossfit i was into them

00:45:49.440 --> 00:45:53.019
of course and i then i started working out and

00:45:53.019 --> 00:45:55.800
for the first few weeks it was just me out there

00:45:55.800 --> 00:45:57.119
and i was totally fine with that i mean i've

00:45:57.119 --> 00:45:59.260
worked out on my own for a long time prior to

00:45:59.260 --> 00:46:03.460
that but then one of the guys said you know what

00:46:03.460 --> 00:46:05.980
is this that you're doing And then I got him

00:46:05.980 --> 00:46:08.019
doing it and I showed him how you can scale it.

00:46:08.079 --> 00:46:09.760
And now it's not intimidating. You're not going

00:46:09.760 --> 00:46:11.460
to look stupid. And, you know, let's just go

00:46:11.460 --> 00:46:13.940
through some of the movements. By the time I

00:46:13.940 --> 00:46:16.960
left, the whole station was working out. And

00:46:16.960 --> 00:46:18.820
then it was the same in the next department started

00:46:18.820 --> 00:46:21.420
on my own. And then by the end, when I left,

00:46:21.460 --> 00:46:23.619
I'd be on my day off. I'd come back to, you know,

00:46:23.619 --> 00:46:25.420
take my son to a park or something. I'd swing

00:46:25.420 --> 00:46:27.579
by the station and grab something. And the crew

00:46:27.579 --> 00:46:30.980
is all working out. So I completely agree with

00:46:30.980 --> 00:46:32.860
you, you know, ramming it down someone's throat.

00:46:32.900 --> 00:46:35.039
There's a time and place. Right now, when I'm

00:46:35.039 --> 00:46:36.760
talking about the firefighter work week in a

00:46:36.760 --> 00:46:38.920
lot of the country, this is the time and a place

00:46:38.920 --> 00:46:41.039
for throat punching. You know, we've provided

00:46:41.039 --> 00:46:43.400
all this information. Now we're calling out people

00:46:43.400 --> 00:46:46.760
to actually act. But that being said, that doesn't

00:46:46.760 --> 00:46:49.699
work on everything by any means. And so in that

00:46:49.699 --> 00:46:51.619
particular scenario, if I'd just been in there

00:46:51.619 --> 00:46:53.079
like, oh, why don't you just work out with me?

00:46:53.079 --> 00:46:55.159
What's wrong with you? No one would have listened.

00:46:55.260 --> 00:46:57.460
But by simply going out there and then, as you

00:46:57.460 --> 00:47:01.179
said, performing on a fire, people then go, oh,

00:47:01.500 --> 00:47:03.059
well, there must be something to this because.

00:47:03.610 --> 00:47:05.690
i'm not saying i'm heroic or anything on a fire

00:47:05.690 --> 00:47:07.989
but he's able to work and doesn't seem to get

00:47:07.989 --> 00:47:13.309
tired yeah and that's i i have always stuck with

00:47:13.309 --> 00:47:15.449
the attraction rather than promotion thing because

00:47:15.449 --> 00:47:18.949
it's a cohesive unit if everybody drinks then

00:47:18.949 --> 00:47:22.989
everybody's gonna drink if everybody's single

00:47:22.989 --> 00:47:25.590
and most people if everybody's working out and

00:47:25.590 --> 00:47:27.269
you're gonna fight it and sit in the kitchen

00:47:27.269 --> 00:47:30.190
eating cheesecake you start to feel left out

00:47:30.190 --> 00:47:32.610
a little bit so now you have to kind of like

00:47:34.069 --> 00:47:37.010
Slowly bring them into it, you know, because

00:47:37.010 --> 00:47:39.610
there's an ego involved. Because, listen, as

00:47:39.610 --> 00:47:41.909
a new firefighter in shape, I don't want to walk

00:47:41.909 --> 00:47:45.150
in and say, you know, look at your waist. You're

00:47:45.150 --> 00:47:46.550
embarrassing. You can't even run up a flight.

00:47:46.590 --> 00:47:48.630
You know, you're getting some grizzled firefighter

00:47:48.630 --> 00:47:50.710
from the war years that served his time in Harlem

00:47:50.710 --> 00:47:53.130
and the South Bronx. Now he's in a slower flight.

00:47:53.190 --> 00:47:54.409
You're going to say, listen, you can't even do

00:47:54.409 --> 00:47:57.070
a pull -up. You can't do your job. You'll be

00:47:57.070 --> 00:48:01.550
in a fistfight. before you know it, you know?

00:48:01.690 --> 00:48:03.409
So you don't, you don't even, I don't even, I

00:48:03.409 --> 00:48:05.949
didn't even say anything. I would just do, you

00:48:05.949 --> 00:48:07.650
know, I would, I would click with the guys I

00:48:07.650 --> 00:48:09.550
clicked with. And if they asked for help, you

00:48:09.550 --> 00:48:10.849
know, help them work out. And then eventually

00:48:10.849 --> 00:48:13.090
if he's sitting in there eating cheesecake and

00:48:13.090 --> 00:48:14.889
there's three guys down the basement working

00:48:14.889 --> 00:48:18.329
out sooner or later, he says, you know, maybe

00:48:18.329 --> 00:48:21.730
there's something I should think about, you know,

00:48:21.730 --> 00:48:25.130
it's the group mentality usually. So that's kind

00:48:25.130 --> 00:48:28.070
of what I ran into. And then I was always pretty

00:48:28.070 --> 00:48:31.150
sensitive. person about that kind of thing because

00:48:31.150 --> 00:48:35.349
i would kind of lead it towards work with compliments

00:48:35.349 --> 00:48:37.730
rather than insults which works better i would

00:48:37.730 --> 00:48:41.190
say listen you got great genetics under that

00:48:41.190 --> 00:48:45.789
fat you got some muscle and i go if you uh you

00:48:45.789 --> 00:48:48.929
know if we if you if we get you working out the

00:48:48.929 --> 00:48:50.969
fat will go away pretty quickly i said this is

00:48:50.969 --> 00:48:53.630
a two or three month project i said it took you

00:48:53.630 --> 00:48:56.570
50 years to get here and we can undo it in three

00:48:56.570 --> 00:48:59.389
months i think that's a small price to pay And

00:48:59.389 --> 00:49:04.030
I go, look, you'll lose the weight. You'll do

00:49:04.030 --> 00:49:05.510
your job better. It's better for your heart.

00:49:05.530 --> 00:49:09.809
There's no downside to it. And then they'd kid

00:49:09.809 --> 00:49:12.690
around and say, yeah, and maybe your wife will

00:49:12.690 --> 00:49:14.369
be chasing you around the coffee table now instead

00:49:14.369 --> 00:49:18.929
of putting off because you walk out of the shower

00:49:18.929 --> 00:49:21.429
and you drop your towel. And she's like, oh,

00:49:21.449 --> 00:49:25.940
God, do I have to look at this? So it's good

00:49:25.940 --> 00:49:28.719
for your ego and your personality. They say,

00:49:28.820 --> 00:49:34.400
hey, that's a good idea. There's nothing but

00:49:34.400 --> 00:49:38.960
pluses to it. Exactly. One of my guests actually

00:49:38.960 --> 00:49:40.599
told me, and I didn't know this prior to the

00:49:40.599 --> 00:49:43.960
conversation, but it makes so much sense. There's

00:49:43.960 --> 00:49:47.420
all these commercials on TV about pills for erectile

00:49:47.420 --> 00:49:50.829
dysfunction. Well, your penis is basically nothing

00:49:50.829 --> 00:49:53.510
but, you know, blood vessels. There's no muscles

00:49:53.510 --> 00:49:55.090
in there. You know, there's no bones in there.

00:49:56.070 --> 00:50:00.489
So when you have issues down there, that's actually

00:50:00.489 --> 00:50:03.070
a terrifying precursor for heart disease, you

00:50:03.070 --> 00:50:05.650
know, or strokes. It means that your arteries

00:50:05.650 --> 00:50:09.409
are starting to close up. So the other, it's

00:50:09.409 --> 00:50:10.489
just something, it's funny because you touched

00:50:10.489 --> 00:50:12.429
on it. The other thing that really, I think,

00:50:12.429 --> 00:50:14.829
would strike men to the heart is that when you

00:50:14.829 --> 00:50:16.829
actually get yourself healthier, that's going

00:50:16.829 --> 00:50:18.960
to start working properly again. You're not going

00:50:18.960 --> 00:50:22.320
to rely on some pill that's basically masking

00:50:22.320 --> 00:50:24.219
the fact that you probably are going to die soon.

00:50:24.960 --> 00:50:27.920
So when we give people the pills for chest pain,

00:50:27.960 --> 00:50:29.519
we've got to ask them, are you on Viagra? Because

00:50:29.519 --> 00:50:32.679
it's doing the exact same thing. So this is another

00:50:32.679 --> 00:50:35.099
layer to the argument of why you should, you

00:50:35.099 --> 00:50:38.239
know, be courageous and lean into, you know,

00:50:38.280 --> 00:50:40.380
kind of taking control of your health because

00:50:40.380 --> 00:50:42.699
it's your sexual health as well. You know, if

00:50:42.699 --> 00:50:44.639
that stopped working, there can be psychological

00:50:44.639 --> 00:50:47.840
elements too, which might be tied into. you know,

00:50:47.880 --> 00:50:50.219
your perception of yourself in the mirror. But

00:50:50.219 --> 00:50:52.440
when you get yourself down to a healthy weight,

00:50:52.579 --> 00:50:55.099
chances are that sexually you're going to perform

00:50:55.099 --> 00:50:59.840
a lot better as well. Yeah, whenever I've had

00:50:59.840 --> 00:51:03.119
fitness clients, male or female, and they want

00:51:03.119 --> 00:51:05.500
to know body fat percentage, you know, I go,

00:51:05.539 --> 00:51:07.539
no, no, no, I don't have to do any of that. Here's

00:51:07.539 --> 00:51:10.679
what I want you to do. I want you to put on a,

00:51:10.679 --> 00:51:13.599
if it's a guy, put on a very skimpy bathing suit.

00:51:14.069 --> 00:51:16.130
stand under a fluorescent light, take a picture

00:51:16.130 --> 00:51:19.510
from the front and a picture from the back, put

00:51:19.510 --> 00:51:21.889
it in an envelope and come and see me in a week.

00:51:22.590 --> 00:51:25.449
Don't even look at the picture. And then you

00:51:25.449 --> 00:51:27.130
take the picture. And I've done this with females,

00:51:27.230 --> 00:51:29.909
which works fabulously because, listen, we all

00:51:29.909 --> 00:51:31.789
stand in the light that we look the best in.

00:51:32.030 --> 00:51:34.230
And I've certainly seen firemen like that, you

00:51:34.230 --> 00:51:36.190
know, try to like cinch the waist on their pants

00:51:36.190 --> 00:51:38.369
and turn to the side a little to try to look.

00:51:38.670 --> 00:51:40.929
But when you stand under fluorescent light in

00:51:40.929 --> 00:51:42.610
a skimpy bathing suit front and back and you

00:51:42.610 --> 00:51:44.570
take a picture and then they don't see it and

00:51:44.570 --> 00:51:45.989
then you take it out and go, you tell me what

00:51:45.989 --> 00:51:48.150
condition you're in. You look at this. And they're

00:51:48.150 --> 00:51:51.690
like, oh, my God. Oh, my God. I had no idea I

00:51:51.690 --> 00:51:54.389
looked like that. But meanwhile, they would take

00:51:54.389 --> 00:51:56.550
a picture and they put a suit on. You know, a

00:51:56.550 --> 00:52:02.710
typical guy is like, I'm stocky. I'm bulky. I

00:52:02.710 --> 00:52:05.719
have a football player build. But we always had

00:52:05.719 --> 00:52:08.119
the comebacks for that. You know, like a friend

00:52:08.119 --> 00:52:10.360
of mine out in the dating scene, she was like,

00:52:10.400 --> 00:52:12.739
yeah, I went on a date. A guy said he had a football

00:52:12.739 --> 00:52:16.500
build. Meaning you would think like Mark Gastineau

00:52:16.500 --> 00:52:19.239
or NFL linebacker. She goes, no, he looked like

00:52:19.239 --> 00:52:21.260
a football. He was pointed on both ends and big

00:52:21.260 --> 00:52:24.840
and round like a football. But this is what people

00:52:24.840 --> 00:52:26.880
to delude themselves. So that's what I say. Look

00:52:26.880 --> 00:52:29.400
at the picture. So even even when it comes to

00:52:29.400 --> 00:52:31.340
the job. So when somebody can't say to me, I

00:52:31.340 --> 00:52:33.920
can do the job. OK. Here's 80 pounds of equipment.

00:52:34.179 --> 00:52:37.039
I'll meet you on the sixth floor. And if on the

00:52:37.039 --> 00:52:39.239
fourth floor they can't even breathe, it doesn't

00:52:39.239 --> 00:52:41.360
matter how tactical they are, how much they know

00:52:41.360 --> 00:52:43.320
how to take a door, use a halogen, whatever.

00:52:43.960 --> 00:52:45.940
They can't make it to the fire floor to do their

00:52:45.940 --> 00:52:48.860
job. So that's their wake up call. I don't need

00:52:48.860 --> 00:52:50.380
to. I'm not going to tell you you can't do your

00:52:50.380 --> 00:52:51.739
job because then I'm going to get a fist fight

00:52:51.739 --> 00:52:55.380
with some grizzled fireman from Harlem. Let him

00:52:55.380 --> 00:52:57.480
find out on his own. And then, yes, they have

00:52:57.480 --> 00:53:01.960
to say, listen, I, I get it. Now, how do we fix

00:53:01.960 --> 00:53:07.460
it? So absolutely. Well, so you've got us through

00:53:07.460 --> 00:53:09.440
to kind of cooking in the firehouse. Now you're

00:53:09.440 --> 00:53:11.539
cooking for your crew and making healthy meals.

00:53:11.820 --> 00:53:15.340
How does that lead you to cooking competitions

00:53:15.340 --> 00:53:19.960
and ultimately creating a book? Well, it actually

00:53:19.960 --> 00:53:24.599
worked backwards. I was just a mediocre firehouse

00:53:24.599 --> 00:53:26.820
cook. I definitely knew about the nutrition end

00:53:26.820 --> 00:53:28.980
of it, making things and experimenting a little

00:53:28.980 --> 00:53:32.949
bit. And then I transferred out of the slower

00:53:32.949 --> 00:53:35.730
firehouse to a busier being a young. I wanted

00:53:35.730 --> 00:53:37.929
to be in a busier firehouse. Plus, I was in a

00:53:37.929 --> 00:53:39.650
single firehouse. There's only like four guys

00:53:39.650 --> 00:53:41.989
you work with and an officer. Double firehouse

00:53:41.989 --> 00:53:43.630
is a truck and an engine. And now you got 12

00:53:43.630 --> 00:53:45.429
people you work with. So it's just as much more

00:53:45.429 --> 00:53:48.230
comedy, more fun, more action. I wanted to be

00:53:48.230 --> 00:53:53.320
in a ladder company, not an engine company. more

00:53:53.320 --> 00:53:55.500
personnel around, you know, so all of that. So

00:53:55.500 --> 00:53:57.239
I transferred to that fires. And again, I started

00:53:57.239 --> 00:54:00.119
slowly cooking here and there, some good, some

00:54:00.119 --> 00:54:01.900
bad, sometimes it came out great, sometimes not.

00:54:02.059 --> 00:54:06.280
And then just on a whim, um, to fast forward

00:54:06.280 --> 00:54:09.000
the story in 1984, there was a New York city

00:54:09.000 --> 00:54:11.500
fireman named John Sunino, who I know, who I

00:54:11.500 --> 00:54:14.360
knew well, he published a book called the firefighters

00:54:14.360 --> 00:54:19.280
cookbook, small paperback, 5 ,000 copies for

00:54:19.280 --> 00:54:22.230
whatever reason. Maybe your audience will know.

00:54:22.250 --> 00:54:23.590
I don't know if you remember. There was a talk

00:54:23.590 --> 00:54:26.809
show host named Phil Donahue. He was transferring

00:54:26.809 --> 00:54:31.349
his studio from Chicago to New York. So he asked

00:54:31.349 --> 00:54:36.090
his editors and stuff, listen, I want to do a

00:54:36.090 --> 00:54:38.409
show. My first show in New York, I want to warm

00:54:38.409 --> 00:54:40.710
up to the New York audience. Give me some ideas.

00:54:41.710 --> 00:54:43.789
So one of his producers said, hey, listen, you

00:54:43.789 --> 00:54:47.349
know what? New Yorkers love their firemen. And

00:54:47.349 --> 00:54:48.869
they always see them at the supermarket cooking,

00:54:49.070 --> 00:54:51.250
buying food. And they know that they cook and

00:54:51.250 --> 00:54:52.550
they know some of them are really good cooks.

00:54:52.630 --> 00:54:54.210
Why don't we do a little cooking episode? There

00:54:54.210 --> 00:54:56.849
was a guy that just did a little book. You know,

00:54:56.849 --> 00:54:59.170
he goes, well, call him. They called him and

00:54:59.170 --> 00:55:01.030
him and about three other firefighters from Harlem.

00:55:01.409 --> 00:55:04.510
Engine 58 is where he worked in Harlem. Did this

00:55:04.510 --> 00:55:07.829
episode on Phil Donahue. And he was no TV star

00:55:07.829 --> 00:55:10.889
or anything, but it was he got a little nervous

00:55:10.889 --> 00:55:13.710
when he was cooking and the food started to burn

00:55:13.710 --> 00:55:15.769
a little bit. And while Phil Donahue was asking

00:55:15.769 --> 00:55:17.510
him the firehouse, what's it like? Where do you

00:55:17.510 --> 00:55:20.639
work? He was a. John, your food. Oh, my God.

00:55:20.719 --> 00:55:21.800
You know, so they went over there to put it.

00:55:21.860 --> 00:55:25.500
So it made for a comedic routine. And it just

00:55:25.500 --> 00:55:28.699
after he did that show, the word now is viral.

00:55:29.139 --> 00:55:30.980
Then we didn't have the Internet, but it just

00:55:30.980 --> 00:55:33.880
if that's the word, it went viral. And the book

00:55:33.880 --> 00:55:35.679
ended up on The New York Times bestseller list

00:55:35.679 --> 00:55:38.579
for nine weeks in a row. Wow. Nine weeks on The

00:55:38.579 --> 00:55:40.320
New York bestseller list. They couldn't get enough

00:55:40.320 --> 00:55:44.759
of it. And he was all over the place. But. Because

00:55:44.759 --> 00:55:47.820
of his nutritional background, he ended up having

00:55:47.820 --> 00:55:53.440
a triple bypass. So along comes 1990, I guess

00:55:53.440 --> 00:55:56.760
it was 93 or something. Again, I didn't enter

00:55:56.760 --> 00:55:59.500
any cooking contest. I had just gone to New York

00:55:59.500 --> 00:56:01.500
University. I got my degree in fitness and nutrition.

00:56:01.800 --> 00:56:04.480
And I was doing some personal training and cooking

00:56:04.480 --> 00:56:06.900
and just being a fireman. There was a course

00:56:06.900 --> 00:56:08.619
at the new school called How to Write a Cookbook

00:56:08.619 --> 00:56:10.039
and Get It Published. And I go, you know what?

00:56:10.840 --> 00:56:13.690
Saturday in Manhattan, I'm between shifts. Instead

00:56:13.690 --> 00:56:15.130
of going all the way out to Long Island home,

00:56:15.309 --> 00:56:17.869
I'll just take this course in Manhattan and see

00:56:17.869 --> 00:56:19.510
what it's about and just get the information.

00:56:19.650 --> 00:56:22.829
Did not go hell bent on publishing a cookbook.

00:56:23.849 --> 00:56:26.230
The teacher says, are we going to go around the

00:56:26.230 --> 00:56:27.849
room? Everybody say your idea for a cookbook.

00:56:27.929 --> 00:56:29.650
I'm like, idea for a cookbook? I don't even,

00:56:29.789 --> 00:56:31.670
I just wanted to take this course and maybe,

00:56:31.750 --> 00:56:34.309
I don't know, meet some girls on a Saturday in

00:56:34.309 --> 00:56:36.989
Manhattan. And he goes around the room. So I

00:56:36.989 --> 00:56:40.590
said, Joe, think quick. So I said, all right.

00:56:40.590 --> 00:56:43.800
There was a very successful book in 1984. bestseller

00:56:43.800 --> 00:56:45.960
list, but he had a triple bypass. I'm certified

00:56:45.960 --> 00:56:48.659
as a fitness trainer and a nutritionist, maybe

00:56:48.659 --> 00:56:52.099
a healthy fireman cookbook. And that fit by the

00:56:52.099 --> 00:56:54.039
time they got to me, that's how I did. And I

00:56:54.039 --> 00:56:56.719
said, listen, I'm New York city fireman, been

00:56:56.719 --> 00:56:59.960
a fireman for 13 years. If I was going to do,

00:56:59.980 --> 00:57:02.380
it was a successful book in 84. If I just got

00:57:02.380 --> 00:57:04.920
certified as a fitness trainer, I'd do a healthy

00:57:04.920 --> 00:57:07.380
firehouse cookbook. He just said, you know what?

00:57:07.440 --> 00:57:09.699
That's a really good idea. But meanwhile, it

00:57:09.699 --> 00:57:11.800
was 75 people in the class. And because it was

00:57:11.800 --> 00:57:14.139
New York, They were like focused on writing a

00:57:14.139 --> 00:57:16.780
book. I mean, these people had 300 recipes with

00:57:16.780 --> 00:57:20.699
them, culinary training all over the world. And

00:57:20.699 --> 00:57:22.880
I go, look at the company I'm in. Oh, my God.

00:57:22.880 --> 00:57:25.460
And I'm not even ready. And, you know, this is

00:57:25.460 --> 00:57:31.099
like a Cinderella story. So the teacher said,

00:57:31.219 --> 00:57:32.940
all right, this afternoon we have an editor from

00:57:32.940 --> 00:57:35.099
Hearst Publishing from New York coming in. She's

00:57:35.099 --> 00:57:36.860
going to do a little thing. And then she did

00:57:36.860 --> 00:57:38.940
her thing in the afternoon. She says, we're going

00:57:38.940 --> 00:57:40.380
to open the floor for five minutes. Say your

00:57:40.380 --> 00:57:42.219
idea for a cookbook, and she'll let you know.

00:57:43.460 --> 00:57:45.679
Seventy -four hands went up, and I'm sitting

00:57:45.679 --> 00:57:48.239
in like this. I'm like, oh, my God. I'm not going

00:57:48.239 --> 00:57:49.539
to mention my idea. I don't even have anything

00:57:49.539 --> 00:57:52.659
ready. And these people were – and because it

00:57:52.659 --> 00:57:53.960
was New York, they were trying to get noticed.

00:57:53.980 --> 00:57:55.460
They're like, oh, you know, I went to the Culinary

00:57:55.460 --> 00:57:58.199
Institute in Hyde Park. I graduated with honors

00:57:58.199 --> 00:58:01.039
and I cooked in Sweden and France and England

00:58:01.039 --> 00:58:04.079
and all over the world, cruises. And I'm like,

00:58:04.099 --> 00:58:05.760
wow, look at the company I'm in. And these people

00:58:05.760 --> 00:58:07.039
were ready. This is going to be the name of my

00:58:07.039 --> 00:58:09.000
book. I have the recipes ready. I'm like, I had

00:58:09.000 --> 00:58:13.800
a pen and a paper with me. So the editor says,

00:58:13.960 --> 00:58:15.860
all right. And she's shooting people down. She

00:58:15.860 --> 00:58:17.639
goes, no, we had three Swedish books last year.

00:58:17.679 --> 00:58:19.300
Yeah, we had a cruise book last year. No, that's

00:58:19.300 --> 00:58:21.360
no good. That's not good. That's not good. I

00:58:21.360 --> 00:58:24.820
go, wow, she's like. I'm not even going to mention

00:58:24.820 --> 00:58:27.679
my idea. Teacher ends the class, says, don't

00:58:27.679 --> 00:58:30.679
be shy if you have a good idea. Thank you, everybody,

00:58:30.739 --> 00:58:33.260
for attending the class. Like our fireman, for

00:58:33.260 --> 00:58:36.300
instance. Did you mention your idea? I'm like,

00:58:36.360 --> 00:58:40.480
oh, my God. I said, hi, this is my name. You

00:58:40.480 --> 00:58:43.139
know, if it was a successful book in 84, if I

00:58:43.139 --> 00:58:45.500
was going to do it, it would be healthy. She

00:58:45.500 --> 00:58:49.340
goes, that is a fabulous idea. Come up after

00:58:49.340 --> 00:58:53.130
the class. And she gave me, I'm the head editor

00:58:53.130 --> 00:58:55.590
for Hearst. Here's my card. She goes, do you

00:58:55.590 --> 00:58:59.530
have an agent? I go, agent? I'm a fireman. I

00:58:59.530 --> 00:59:01.570
don't have an agent. She goes, well, that's how

00:59:01.570 --> 00:59:03.469
it works. Monday morning, I'll get you an agent

00:59:03.469 --> 00:59:06.210
and they'll walk you through the process, which

00:59:06.210 --> 00:59:09.329
they did. And in 95, the first healthy firehouse

00:59:09.329 --> 00:59:11.809
cookbook came out. And then it was crazy after

00:59:11.809 --> 00:59:13.670
that. It was Regis, Good Morning America, Martha

00:59:13.670 --> 00:59:15.929
Stewart, the New York Times, Daily News. It was

00:59:15.929 --> 00:59:18.630
just, it started to get light. And I'm still

00:59:18.630 --> 00:59:21.079
working at the time. You know, and it was just

00:59:21.079 --> 00:59:24.079
it was crazy, you know, and it was so funny because

00:59:24.079 --> 00:59:27.579
the firefighters I was working with were never

00:59:27.579 --> 00:59:30.599
very complimentary on your cooking. Very rare.

00:59:31.659 --> 00:59:34.260
They were like, cookbook, get the heck out of

00:59:34.260 --> 00:59:36.079
here. Will you get out of here? You're not writing

00:59:36.079 --> 00:59:39.579
no cookbook. Can't even boil an egg, you know,

00:59:39.579 --> 00:59:42.659
and it just then it just started to snowball.

00:59:42.800 --> 00:59:44.739
And it just it was fun for everybody. We just

00:59:44.739 --> 00:59:47.760
had. press there all the time and brought friends

00:59:47.760 --> 00:59:50.559
of mine to the regis show regis at the time in

00:59:50.559 --> 00:59:53.500
good morning america and it just was a wild ride

00:59:53.500 --> 00:59:57.239
the book did well then in 98 they contacted me

00:59:57.239 --> 01:00:01.000
again they wanted to do a grilling cookbook so

01:00:01.000 --> 01:00:06.139
we did that and then 9 11 happened and then after

01:00:06.139 --> 01:00:10.260
9 11 so that's why i'm pretty adamant about mentioning

01:00:10.260 --> 01:00:12.300
that all of this was happening to me before 9

01:00:12.300 --> 01:00:15.250
11. i'm not somebody that Because I was involved

01:00:15.250 --> 01:00:17.369
in 9 -11 trying to take advantage of it, publishing

01:00:17.369 --> 01:00:20.389
a book. No, it was all happened well before that.

01:00:22.750 --> 01:00:26.449
So now you want to talk about 9 -11. Yeah, I

01:00:26.449 --> 01:00:28.670
mean, you have such a powerful story as far as

01:00:28.670 --> 01:00:31.889
even why you found yourself in New York early

01:00:31.889 --> 01:00:35.750
that morning. The book actually led to, I had

01:00:35.750 --> 01:00:39.630
my retirement papers in. i was getting a lot

01:00:39.630 --> 01:00:42.150
of because i was on tv so much i was getting

01:00:42.150 --> 01:00:44.929
a lot of calls from companies to be like listen

01:00:44.929 --> 01:00:49.090
if it will get you on tv but you mention this

01:00:49.090 --> 01:00:51.010
food company or that food company and they pay

01:00:51.010 --> 01:00:53.849
you you get compensated for it so i'm like okay

01:00:53.849 --> 01:00:57.210
listen i've done put decks on people's houses

01:00:57.210 --> 01:01:00.030
and put roofs on people's houses for a lot less

01:01:00.030 --> 01:01:02.329
money than they were paying me to be a guest

01:01:02.329 --> 01:01:05.289
on a tv show So I was sort of like a kid around.

01:01:05.389 --> 01:01:07.349
I sort of like there's the A -listers like Bobby

01:01:07.349 --> 01:01:10.469
Flay and Rachel Ray and Emeril. And I was like

01:01:10.469 --> 01:01:13.269
a D -list or an L -list or way down the line,

01:01:13.329 --> 01:01:18.170
but there was still a call for it. So by a crazy

01:01:18.170 --> 01:01:20.750
twist of fate, I get called by Ranzoni Pasta

01:01:20.750 --> 01:01:22.650
in New York. It was a big pasta company in New

01:01:22.650 --> 01:01:24.889
York. They said, Joe, we'd like to, we're going

01:01:24.889 --> 01:01:26.449
to have a farming cooking contest. We want you

01:01:26.449 --> 01:01:29.809
to judge it. And plus you've been on TV. We want

01:01:29.809 --> 01:01:32.889
you to promote it, the contest on TV. Okay. So

01:01:32.889 --> 01:01:37.010
I did a few the summer of 2001. And then maybe

01:01:37.010 --> 01:01:39.110
mid -August, they called me up and they said,

01:01:39.230 --> 01:01:45.090
Joe, a local WB11 in New York wants to do, with

01:01:45.090 --> 01:01:47.429
the host of the show, they want you at a firehouse

01:01:47.429 --> 01:01:51.409
doing some cooking. Are you available? I get

01:01:51.409 --> 01:01:54.170
choked up. Are you available September 8th, 2001?

01:01:55.230 --> 01:01:57.230
We're going to do it at your firehouse in Queens,

01:01:57.449 --> 01:02:00.969
which is ladder 152. I said, okay. All right.

01:02:02.549 --> 01:02:05.030
It's all confirmed. Joe, we're all set September.

01:02:05.210 --> 01:02:06.610
And this is probably mid -August. We're all set

01:02:06.610 --> 01:02:09.190
September 8th. We're going to do it early in

01:02:09.190 --> 01:02:11.110
the morning. And the host of the show will meet

01:02:11.110 --> 01:02:15.570
us out there. It's all set. Okay. A couple of

01:02:15.570 --> 01:02:18.710
weeks go by. The beginning of September, I get

01:02:18.710 --> 01:02:24.170
a phone call. Joe, this is the public relations

01:02:24.170 --> 01:02:27.650
company for Ranzoni. The TV crew doesn't want

01:02:27.650 --> 01:02:29.130
to come all the way out to Queens because of

01:02:29.130 --> 01:02:31.349
the traffic. They don't get a really good signal.

01:02:31.570 --> 01:02:35.409
Would you be willing to do it in Manhattan, at

01:02:35.409 --> 01:02:37.090
a firehouse in Manhattan? I said, yeah, my brother

01:02:37.090 --> 01:02:39.809
used to work in Manhattan. And I know that firehouse,

01:02:39.809 --> 01:02:41.590
and I know some people that work there. It's

01:02:41.590 --> 01:02:44.510
Ladder 3 on 13th and Broadway. I go, yeah, I

01:02:44.510 --> 01:02:46.010
know where that is. It's right down the block

01:02:46.010 --> 01:02:47.550
from my brother's firehouse. Sure, I know. And

01:02:47.550 --> 01:02:50.000
I know two people that work there. And they said,

01:02:50.059 --> 01:02:52.780
great. All right, it's all set. The only thing

01:02:52.780 --> 01:02:56.239
is we can't do it on September 8th. Are you available

01:02:56.239 --> 01:03:01.840
the morning of September 11th? Not knowing, I

01:03:01.840 --> 01:03:04.360
go, yeah. All right, well, we're going to change

01:03:04.360 --> 01:03:06.880
the date the morning of September 11th. Car service

01:03:06.880 --> 01:03:09.480
will pick you up at your house and drive you

01:03:09.480 --> 01:03:14.199
into the firehouse. Okay, not knowing who could

01:03:14.199 --> 01:03:17.599
have ever thought. Beautiful day. Picked me up

01:03:17.599 --> 01:03:19.780
at like six o 'clock in the morning. It's 530

01:03:19.780 --> 01:03:21.699
in the morning to beat the traffic. I drive in,

01:03:21.760 --> 01:03:24.280
walk into ladder three, meet all the firefighters

01:03:24.280 --> 01:03:27.219
there, including Captain Patrick Brown, very

01:03:27.219 --> 01:03:29.940
famous firefighter from New York. He just walked

01:03:29.940 --> 01:03:31.559
in and came in on duty. He was talking to me

01:03:31.559 --> 01:03:35.039
a little bit, talking to all the guys. Then the

01:03:35.039 --> 01:03:37.480
host of the show shows up. So we did one segment

01:03:37.480 --> 01:03:43.059
and it was live. But the main studio. was doing

01:03:43.059 --> 01:03:45.340
their normal daily – it's an hour show. They're

01:03:45.340 --> 01:03:46.519
doing their show, and they go, we're going to

01:03:46.519 --> 01:03:48.619
cut live to Joe, and Larry Huff was the name

01:03:48.619 --> 01:03:50.500
of the host. We're going to cut live to Joe at,

01:03:50.500 --> 01:03:54.699
you know, ladder three with Larry Huff. And he

01:03:54.699 --> 01:03:56.440
was a goofball. He was goofing around with me

01:03:56.440 --> 01:03:58.639
and coming down the pole and doing all this stuff.

01:03:58.800 --> 01:04:05.199
So one was at 6 .45. One was at 7 .45, like a

01:04:05.199 --> 01:04:07.219
little three -minute segment. We'd cook a little

01:04:07.219 --> 01:04:08.699
thing. We'd bring it out to the street. We're

01:04:08.699 --> 01:04:12.139
feeding people. And then the last segment was

01:04:12.139 --> 01:04:18.340
about eight, probably 820, 830. The first plane

01:04:18.340 --> 01:04:23.679
hit at 846. So to this day, I will never forget

01:04:23.679 --> 01:04:28.239
it. The girl said to me, Joe, the car service

01:04:28.239 --> 01:04:30.639
person is in, they're in the Bronx. They can't

01:04:30.639 --> 01:04:33.880
get here for an hour. I said, okay, no problem.

01:04:34.000 --> 01:04:35.840
I hang out and they, and all the guys were like,

01:04:35.920 --> 01:04:37.599
Joe, great. Come on back in the kitchen with

01:04:37.599 --> 01:04:39.880
us. Hang with us, you know, take a few runs with

01:04:39.880 --> 01:04:42.800
us or whatever. So I said, ah, you know what?

01:04:43.840 --> 01:04:47.820
Yeah, no problem. So took my gear off. I'm in

01:04:47.820 --> 01:04:51.420
uniform. I took my gear off. I start to go back

01:04:51.420 --> 01:04:54.679
in the kitchen. The girl that works for the public

01:04:54.679 --> 01:04:57.159
relations company, I could see it. The phone

01:04:57.159 --> 01:05:00.519
rings. She goes, Joe, I got good news. There's

01:05:00.519 --> 01:05:03.400
another car right around the block and they can

01:05:03.400 --> 01:05:06.199
take you now if you want. And I was like this.

01:05:06.300 --> 01:05:09.199
And the other firefighters, no. wait, you're

01:05:09.199 --> 01:05:11.360
going to be stuck in traffic when it's nine,

01:05:11.400 --> 01:05:14.099
it's quarter to almost a quarter to nine. There's

01:05:14.099 --> 01:05:16.599
going to be nothing but traffic. And I was like

01:05:16.599 --> 01:05:19.480
this close to saying, I go, you know what? I

01:05:19.480 --> 01:05:21.000
don't want to hold a car service guy up. You

01:05:21.000 --> 01:05:22.780
know, if they got a car, I'm not going to wait

01:05:22.780 --> 01:05:25.539
an hour. And, you know, ah, come on, come on.

01:05:25.539 --> 01:05:27.079
They're pulling me like this. You know, I'm like,

01:05:27.099 --> 01:05:30.719
no, no, no, no. And it was a live segment behind

01:05:30.719 --> 01:05:32.760
me or three, four. I've been calling their kids

01:05:32.760 --> 01:05:35.860
and saying, well, daddy's on TV, you know, live,

01:05:35.900 --> 01:05:40.050
get the kids up, check them out. And I got in

01:05:40.050 --> 01:05:42.670
the car. I got in the car service. I said, hey,

01:05:42.710 --> 01:05:46.409
fellas, have a safe tour. Got in the car. I pull

01:05:46.409 --> 01:05:49.530
out. They pulled out right behind me. I made

01:05:49.530 --> 01:05:51.630
a right towards the Queens Midtown Tunnel. They

01:05:51.630 --> 01:05:53.570
made a left to the World Trade Center. The plane

01:05:53.570 --> 01:05:55.809
had to fly right over my, I didn't even, but

01:05:55.809 --> 01:05:58.670
I did hear tons of sirens. And I'm like, what

01:05:58.670 --> 01:06:00.949
the, you know, but it's New York. That's normal.

01:06:01.670 --> 01:06:03.610
But it just seemed like there was more going

01:06:03.610 --> 01:06:05.570
on. Like, this is something that's not right.

01:06:05.769 --> 01:06:08.039
And I said, put the radio on. And the guy put

01:06:08.039 --> 01:06:11.800
the radio on and he says, you know, we got some,

01:06:11.880 --> 01:06:14.579
we interrupt this program. Apparently a small

01:06:14.579 --> 01:06:18.539
plane has hit the World Trade Center. And I'm

01:06:18.539 --> 01:06:20.360
going up 6th Avenue. I mean, I could turn and

01:06:20.360 --> 01:06:22.400
actually see it. I didn't see the plane hit,

01:06:22.500 --> 01:06:25.920
but I see smoke pouring. I'm like, small plane.

01:06:26.320 --> 01:06:28.360
Plus it was beautiful weather. I'm like, how

01:06:28.360 --> 01:06:32.039
did a small plane lose? It wasn't foggy or anything

01:06:32.039 --> 01:06:34.059
like that. And then you're just like, ah, you

01:06:34.059 --> 01:06:36.989
know, and I'm listening to the reports. And just

01:06:36.989 --> 01:06:38.630
before I went in the Queens Midtown tunnel, oh,

01:06:38.670 --> 01:06:40.789
we have a woman that lives across from the World

01:06:40.789 --> 01:06:43.070
Trade Center. Ma 'am, can you tell us what you

01:06:43.070 --> 01:06:46.150
see? She goes, yeah, I think a plane hit the

01:06:46.150 --> 01:06:48.809
World Trade Center and I could see probably a

01:06:48.809 --> 01:06:53.570
dozen floors on fire with the cross section of

01:06:53.570 --> 01:06:57.329
the wing. And I'm like, a dozen floors for a

01:06:57.329 --> 01:07:00.429
small plane? It just didn't fit. So then I go

01:07:00.429 --> 01:07:03.539
into Queens Midtown tunnel. where we didn't have

01:07:03.539 --> 01:07:05.539
radio reception. I get out, we go through the

01:07:05.539 --> 01:07:09.639
toll. And now I turn around and I see the second

01:07:09.639 --> 01:07:12.500
plane hit the tower. I didn't see the plane hit.

01:07:12.539 --> 01:07:15.000
I just saw the explosion. And I'm like, what

01:07:15.000 --> 01:07:18.559
the? Now I hear on the radio, now I got reception

01:07:18.559 --> 01:07:22.599
again. This is not a small plane, two commercial

01:07:22.599 --> 01:07:25.659
airliners. And then we're getting reports of

01:07:25.659 --> 01:07:28.300
Washington and Pennsylvania. Apparently this

01:07:28.300 --> 01:07:31.300
is an attack. And I'm like, oh, my God. So I

01:07:31.300 --> 01:07:33.099
asked the driver to turn around and he turned.

01:07:33.219 --> 01:07:35.960
I get you get me back into Manhattan. Thank God

01:07:35.960 --> 01:07:39.360
I wasn't able to get back because Steven Silla,

01:07:39.460 --> 01:07:41.480
who works for Tunnel to Towers, he couldn't get

01:07:41.480 --> 01:07:43.760
back and he ran through the tunnel and picked

01:07:43.760 --> 01:07:45.820
up a rig and went in. Thank God I didn't or else

01:07:45.820 --> 01:07:48.199
I'd have been one of the one of the victims.

01:07:48.940 --> 01:07:50.400
And they wouldn't let us through the tunnel.

01:07:50.440 --> 01:07:52.159
They go, no, tunnels closed. Doesn't matter.

01:07:52.320 --> 01:07:54.000
Policemen find the tunnels are closed. You're

01:07:54.000 --> 01:07:56.000
not getting through. You know, and I'm like,

01:07:56.039 --> 01:07:57.659
please, please. No, you're not getting through.

01:07:57.780 --> 01:08:00.119
Oh, my God. I was hoping I could flag down a

01:08:00.119 --> 01:08:02.619
police car or something. Nope. Says, all right,

01:08:02.619 --> 01:08:04.639
we'll take me back out to Long Island. When I

01:08:04.639 --> 01:08:07.219
got back out to Long Island, I walked in the

01:08:07.219 --> 01:08:09.380
front door. As soon as I put the TV on, I was

01:08:09.380 --> 01:08:12.280
watching the towers collapse. And I'm saying

01:08:12.280 --> 01:08:15.420
to myself, oh, my God, I'm watching thousands

01:08:15.420 --> 01:08:18.619
of people get killed. This is, you know, of course,

01:08:18.619 --> 01:08:20.579
for the world and yourself included. Every, you

01:08:20.579 --> 01:08:23.760
know, you saw what I saw. I just grief beyond.

01:08:24.460 --> 01:08:27.760
Anything you could possibly think of. And then

01:08:27.760 --> 01:08:31.979
my brother, who was retired from the FDNY from

01:08:31.979 --> 01:08:34.600
a back injury, happened to be visiting New York.

01:08:34.600 --> 01:08:38.560
He was from Cleveland. And I said, Michael, I

01:08:38.560 --> 01:08:42.560
can't watch this on TV anymore. You know, I'm

01:08:42.560 --> 01:08:47.060
going in. And he said, do you have any extra

01:08:47.060 --> 01:08:50.479
gear? Excuse me. He says, do you have any extra

01:08:50.479 --> 01:08:52.840
gear? And I said, yeah. He goes, well. Grab your

01:08:52.840 --> 01:08:55.520
extra gear and I'll go with you. And my sister

01:08:55.520 --> 01:08:58.880
dropped us off at the train station. And then

01:08:58.880 --> 01:09:02.520
we went. And then me and him actually found the

01:09:02.520 --> 01:09:05.399
rig, Ladder 3, where I was that morning. And

01:09:05.399 --> 01:09:06.739
then one of our friends worked in the medical

01:09:06.739 --> 01:09:10.699
office. We saw him and he, you know, he said,

01:09:10.739 --> 01:09:15.020
Joe, I have a missing list. But within a brief

01:09:15.020 --> 01:09:17.300
period of time, I knew what missing meant. Missing

01:09:17.300 --> 01:09:18.899
didn't mean we can't find the missing means.

01:09:19.380 --> 01:09:21.220
And I said, what about the guys from Ladder 3?

01:09:21.789 --> 01:09:26.210
Because nobody made it. And out of the 12 that

01:09:26.210 --> 01:09:28.130
got killed that I was having breakfast with,

01:09:28.270 --> 01:09:31.390
they only found two of them. The other 10 were

01:09:31.390 --> 01:09:34.850
just dust in the wind, you know. So I made a

01:09:34.850 --> 01:09:37.869
videotape of the appearances because they got

01:09:37.869 --> 01:09:40.770
to see all the people around me were the firemen

01:09:40.770 --> 01:09:42.510
we were with that morning. And I delivered them

01:09:42.510 --> 01:09:45.430
to each family so they could see a video of their

01:09:45.430 --> 01:09:49.720
last moments. you know, before that. And then

01:09:49.720 --> 01:09:51.979
after that, it was just funerals and funerals

01:09:51.979 --> 01:09:54.260
and funerals. It was just, you know, you went

01:09:54.260 --> 01:09:56.739
through it. Everybody, every firefighter from

01:09:56.739 --> 01:10:00.039
around the world felt it, you know, whether you

01:10:00.039 --> 01:10:02.800
were there or not, which was one of the most

01:10:02.800 --> 01:10:08.819
endearing things about it was to, you know, every

01:10:08.819 --> 01:10:10.739
time we went back to either shower or grab a

01:10:10.739 --> 01:10:12.500
bite to eat, I would go into the firehouse and

01:10:12.500 --> 01:10:15.500
there would be pictures up from firefighters

01:10:15.500 --> 01:10:19.460
around the world. Ireland, England, France, Poland,

01:10:19.619 --> 01:10:26.260
Russia, all standing on the apron of their respective

01:10:26.260 --> 01:10:30.100
firehouses with their helmet saluting us. It

01:10:30.100 --> 01:10:33.420
was just, the outpouring of help and support

01:10:33.420 --> 01:10:39.560
was just, it didn't change the event for sure,

01:10:39.640 --> 01:10:41.560
but it certainly brought the world together.

01:10:42.640 --> 01:10:44.539
And I don't mean New York, I don't mean United

01:10:44.539 --> 01:10:52.270
States, I mean the world. I was in Japan when

01:10:52.270 --> 01:10:57.710
that all unfolded. I'd been out with my ex -wife

01:10:57.710 --> 01:11:01.390
now, but a girlfriend at the time. And we'd gone

01:11:01.390 --> 01:11:03.170
to see a movie, I think it was, and we came in

01:11:03.170 --> 01:11:06.130
and I worked for Universal Studios. They opened

01:11:06.130 --> 01:11:08.649
a theme park there. And it was kind of like half

01:11:08.649 --> 01:11:10.970
American, half Australian in the cast, and then

01:11:10.970 --> 01:11:13.050
a few of us kind of mutts from other parts of

01:11:13.050 --> 01:11:16.050
the world. And we went in and there was a TV

01:11:16.050 --> 01:11:18.920
room downstairs. everyone's in there normally

01:11:18.920 --> 01:11:20.800
there would be you know a couple of people sitting

01:11:20.800 --> 01:11:22.260
in there maybe because everyone obviously had

01:11:22.260 --> 01:11:25.960
their own apartments and the first plane had

01:11:25.960 --> 01:11:28.340
hit and so obviously people are you know watching

01:11:28.340 --> 01:11:31.359
especially the americans and then right like

01:11:31.359 --> 01:11:33.119
two minutes after they explain what happened

01:11:33.119 --> 01:11:35.939
is when when the second plane hit and then obviously

01:11:35.939 --> 01:11:38.659
you know ultimately the collapse and that was

01:11:38.659 --> 01:11:40.800
yeah again americans and australians watching

01:11:40.800 --> 01:11:43.399
from japan so i was literally the other side

01:11:43.399 --> 01:11:45.880
of the planet watching and i felt the ripple

01:11:45.880 --> 01:11:48.000
effect in that country too it was just it really

01:11:48.000 --> 01:11:53.220
was a global event it was a global terrible terrible

01:11:53.220 --> 01:11:56.340
event but on the positive side it brought the

01:11:56.340 --> 01:12:04.420
globe together it really did it really did One

01:12:04.420 --> 01:12:07.000
thing I've heard people talk about a lot fondly,

01:12:07.000 --> 01:12:09.180
and I think we even heard the phrase, I miss

01:12:09.180 --> 01:12:13.319
9 -12 during COVID, and this divisive few years

01:12:13.319 --> 01:12:17.140
that we've just been through. Talk to me about

01:12:17.140 --> 01:12:20.739
the people of New York now. What did you see

01:12:20.739 --> 01:12:23.279
as far as the days following and that community

01:12:23.279 --> 01:12:28.100
that was forged out of tragedy? The outpouring

01:12:28.100 --> 01:12:35.850
of love and support. And like I said, it didn't

01:12:35.850 --> 01:12:38.729
change the event. And it was hard to appreciate

01:12:38.729 --> 01:12:41.310
really at the time because we were so grief stricken.

01:12:42.409 --> 01:12:46.590
But when I thought back about, you know, like

01:12:46.590 --> 01:12:49.170
the firehouse I was, I used to work in this firehouse

01:12:49.170 --> 01:12:51.590
for a short period of time, Ladder 5. And my

01:12:51.590 --> 01:12:53.949
brother was in Ladder 7. Ladder 5 is in Greenwich

01:12:53.949 --> 01:12:57.350
Village. Ladder 7 is, I think it's called NoHo

01:12:57.350 --> 01:12:59.630
area that it's in. It was a little further, but

01:12:59.630 --> 01:13:02.590
Ladder 5 was closer. So I would go there. for

01:13:02.590 --> 01:13:05.310
shower and clean up and maybe grab. And every

01:13:05.310 --> 01:13:08.729
time I went in there, there would be people bringing

01:13:08.729 --> 01:13:17.510
in trays of lasagna, food, just, I mean, I think

01:13:17.510 --> 01:13:19.949
I got hugged to death. I mean, I had so many

01:13:19.949 --> 01:13:23.909
people just like, and you know, at a different

01:13:23.909 --> 01:13:25.850
time in my life, I probably could have appreciated

01:13:25.850 --> 01:13:28.710
because I'd be. You know, we ate and then we'd

01:13:28.710 --> 01:13:30.810
be hanging around waiting for a ride to get back

01:13:30.810 --> 01:13:32.569
down to ground zero. And I'd be standing in front

01:13:32.569 --> 01:13:36.310
of quarters and like a thousand beautiful women

01:13:36.310 --> 01:13:38.510
would be passing by. Do you mind if I hug you?

01:13:39.149 --> 01:13:42.989
No, go ahead. Mind if I hug you? Oh, go ahead.

01:13:43.130 --> 01:13:46.069
It was like at another time in my life, maybe

01:13:46.069 --> 01:13:47.729
I could have taken advantage and gotten a few

01:13:47.729 --> 01:13:50.970
phone numbers, but they were just old, young.

01:13:51.149 --> 01:13:55.770
It just, they were just so, they wanted to take

01:13:55.770 --> 01:14:00.680
away our pain. And congratulate us for the bravery

01:14:00.680 --> 01:14:05.579
part of it. And although it was really genuine

01:14:05.579 --> 01:14:07.920
and nice and wonderful and everything like that,

01:14:07.939 --> 01:14:10.560
it's just I could have given that all up and

01:14:10.560 --> 01:14:13.239
not have the event happen and the grief and everything

01:14:13.239 --> 01:14:15.920
that went with it. Because, you know, to go to

01:14:15.920 --> 01:14:18.600
funeral after funeral after funeral after funeral

01:14:18.600 --> 01:14:23.060
and see crying children, crying wife story. And

01:14:23.060 --> 01:14:24.439
you've seen them. You've read it, probably read.

01:14:24.880 --> 01:14:27.279
dozens and dozens of stories of like and mine

01:14:27.279 --> 01:14:30.680
is one of them you know of like listen i was

01:14:30.680 --> 01:14:32.739
in there having breakfast with 12 people and

01:14:32.739 --> 01:14:36.579
and it was a crazy thing because i'll never forget

01:14:36.579 --> 01:14:42.100
uh george's name was i was after we made breakfast

01:14:42.100 --> 01:14:45.739
i was doing the dishes and this guy george had

01:14:45.739 --> 01:14:48.239
just got a sign there fresh out of probie school

01:14:48.239 --> 01:14:51.409
so he pushed me aside And he says, you're a guest

01:14:51.409 --> 01:14:52.810
here. You don't do dishes. And I go, listen,

01:14:52.909 --> 01:14:54.850
I don't mind. I'm doing dishes, you know. I said,

01:14:54.909 --> 01:14:56.489
all right, you know what? If you want to do dishes,

01:14:56.489 --> 01:14:58.510
then I'll dry. So he's doing the dishes, and

01:14:58.510 --> 01:15:00.810
we talked. And he said, oh, my God, I am so thrilled.

01:15:00.869 --> 01:15:03.430
I just got out of the training academy, and I

01:15:03.430 --> 01:15:05.229
got transferred to this firehouse. Patty Brown

01:15:05.229 --> 01:15:07.930
works here. I've been dying to get to this firehouse.

01:15:08.850 --> 01:15:11.829
And he goes, I'm so thrilled. Forty -five minutes

01:15:11.829 --> 01:15:14.590
later, he was gone. You know, one minute I'm

01:15:14.590 --> 01:15:15.949
talking to him, he's so excited to be there.

01:15:16.250 --> 01:15:17.810
Then I talked to another firefighter. He's like,

01:15:17.890 --> 01:15:20.310
yeah, I'm thinking of retiring. I want to move

01:15:20.310 --> 01:15:23.189
out to Iowa with my wife, blah, blah, blah. I

01:15:23.189 --> 01:15:25.050
think I'm just going to put in another six months.

01:15:25.489 --> 01:15:29.430
Same thing. So there was so many. You could write

01:15:29.430 --> 01:15:31.649
a, somebody probably did, wrote dozens of stories.

01:15:31.750 --> 01:15:35.970
I have so many unbelievable stories. One of my

01:15:35.970 --> 01:15:40.390
friends, he was outside the collapse zone, but

01:15:40.390 --> 01:15:42.970
that big whoosh of wind and stuff like that.

01:15:43.010 --> 01:15:45.270
He says, Joe, I was flying through the air like

01:15:45.270 --> 01:15:47.930
this. I didn't even in smoke. I didn't even know

01:15:47.930 --> 01:15:52.250
what I landed. And next thing you know, a bunch

01:15:52.250 --> 01:15:55.010
of debris fell on top of me. And what happened

01:15:55.010 --> 01:15:57.550
is a motorcycle actually bounced along and fell

01:15:57.550 --> 01:15:59.949
on top of him. And the roll bar, he was under

01:15:59.949 --> 01:16:02.149
the roll bar. So the other stuff that fell on

01:16:02.149 --> 01:16:04.529
him didn't hurt him. But the only thing sticking

01:16:04.529 --> 01:16:07.189
out was his fireman's coat glove and his forearm

01:16:07.189 --> 01:16:10.310
out of the debris. And he heard people walking

01:16:10.310 --> 01:16:13.109
by and they said, oh, my God, it's a fireman's

01:16:13.109 --> 01:16:16.199
arm. I can't believe it. And he moved his arm.

01:16:16.420 --> 01:16:18.619
So then they pulled all the debris off of him.

01:16:18.779 --> 01:16:22.699
And thankfully, he was okay. But I have so many.

01:16:23.180 --> 01:16:25.220
And, you know, it was, you know, if you talk

01:16:25.220 --> 01:16:28.220
about, I've always said being a fireman is about

01:16:28.220 --> 01:16:31.039
being in the wrong place at the wrong time. And

01:16:31.039 --> 01:16:33.380
then you just got to hope luck and if you're

01:16:33.380 --> 01:16:35.579
spiritual, God is with you and it takes you out

01:16:35.579 --> 01:16:38.600
of it. But I have so many stories of firefighters

01:16:38.600 --> 01:16:42.659
who, just like the one I was with, you know.

01:16:44.320 --> 01:16:48.100
Like they, in the Bronx, I know two guys. The

01:16:48.100 --> 01:16:50.020
crime was still pretty bad in the Bronx. They

01:16:50.020 --> 01:16:53.000
have a gated thing for their parked cars. So,

01:16:53.020 --> 01:16:55.420
and without our change of shifts, that was the

01:16:55.420 --> 01:16:56.960
weird thing about it. It was right at nine o

01:16:56.960 --> 01:16:58.479
'clock is our change of shift and the plane hit

01:16:58.479 --> 01:17:00.739
at 846. So there were guys still hanging around

01:17:00.739 --> 01:17:03.319
having coffee. There was some guys off duty,

01:17:03.399 --> 01:17:05.319
on duty. So there was so many extra personnel

01:17:05.319 --> 01:17:06.539
there. If it happened at two in the afternoon,

01:17:06.680 --> 01:17:09.500
it'd be different. And these two guys went today,

01:17:09.579 --> 01:17:13.229
off duty, you know, relieved early. Plane hit

01:17:13.229 --> 01:17:15.770
at 846. They were relieved early. The guy came

01:17:15.770 --> 01:17:17.510
in at 830. And he's like, oh, Charlie, take off

01:17:17.510 --> 01:17:20.289
on me. OK, they get in their cars. They pull

01:17:20.289 --> 01:17:23.529
out. There's only the width of the gate is only

01:17:23.529 --> 01:17:25.710
wide enough for one car. So they had nose to

01:17:25.710 --> 01:17:30.109
nose. You go. No, you just do the windshield.

01:17:30.250 --> 01:17:32.489
You know, you go. All right. He goes and he leaves.

01:17:32.649 --> 01:17:35.270
The other guy pulls out. The rig pulls out onto

01:17:35.270 --> 01:17:39.250
the apron. And he said, Bobby, a plane just hit

01:17:39.250 --> 01:17:42.979
the World Trade Center. He pulls back in. He

01:17:42.979 --> 01:17:48.520
got killed. Now, the guy that waved off, you

01:17:48.520 --> 01:17:51.899
know, he's got survivor guilt. Like, why didn't

01:17:51.899 --> 01:17:55.539
I let him go? I would have gladly taken that

01:17:55.539 --> 01:17:58.380
place. Now he's got what they call survivor guilt.

01:17:59.659 --> 01:18:02.159
And that's just divine intervention, you call

01:18:02.159 --> 01:18:05.180
it. And I experienced it myself. I said, why

01:18:05.180 --> 01:18:08.300
did I? All I had to do was tell the girl, nah,

01:18:08.460 --> 01:18:10.060
you know, I'm going to wait. And that would have

01:18:10.060 --> 01:18:12.159
been it. If the run would have came in, I would

01:18:12.159 --> 01:18:13.520
have jumped on the rig with them and that way

01:18:13.520 --> 01:18:18.720
I would have went. So for some reason, why, I

01:18:18.720 --> 01:18:22.460
don't know. Still here and to do God's will and

01:18:22.460 --> 01:18:25.760
whatever. Do good and that's what I'm trying

01:18:25.760 --> 01:18:30.520
to do. I had Will Jimeno on the show. That was

01:18:30.520 --> 01:18:32.659
one of the two Port Authority police officers

01:18:32.659 --> 01:18:36.180
that was pulled out of the wreckage after everything

01:18:36.180 --> 01:18:38.920
had collapsed. and again i mean he lost so many

01:18:38.920 --> 01:18:40.859
of his you know brothers and sister or brothers

01:18:40.859 --> 01:18:44.180
i think in this case um and it was just the absolute

01:18:44.180 --> 01:18:46.359
luck of the draw of these void spaces that were

01:18:46.359 --> 01:18:48.260
created and he was you know smashed to pieces

01:18:48.260 --> 01:18:52.939
but he survived his injuries but uh again i mean

01:18:52.939 --> 01:18:55.560
you talk about that that survivor's guilt and

01:18:55.560 --> 01:18:57.720
that you know one in a million chance that he

01:18:57.720 --> 01:19:01.079
was in the exact right place for these you know

01:19:01.079 --> 01:19:02.880
elevator shafts and all these other things that

01:19:02.880 --> 01:19:05.979
came into to them surviving But I mean, you know,

01:19:05.979 --> 01:19:09.319
almost 2000 people deceased. And, you know, again,

01:19:09.560 --> 01:19:12.079
at that point, you are really just sitting in

01:19:12.079 --> 01:19:13.420
God's hands, isn't it? I mean, we've seen it

01:19:13.420 --> 01:19:15.380
so much in our profession with some of these

01:19:15.380 --> 01:19:18.539
people that survive these crazy car accidents

01:19:18.539 --> 01:19:20.359
and these other ones that are dead and it is

01:19:20.359 --> 01:19:24.560
barely a scratch on the car. Yeah, but the thing

01:19:24.560 --> 01:19:27.819
about 9 -11, yes, there's an accident and a fall.

01:19:28.020 --> 01:19:30.859
But that was on such a grand scale, it was hard

01:19:30.859 --> 01:19:33.880
to encompass the grief on that grand of a scale.

01:19:35.020 --> 01:19:38.520
You know, it's one thing three firemen get killed

01:19:38.520 --> 01:19:41.939
in a fire. It's just as bad. But you're talking

01:19:41.939 --> 01:19:47.060
about 343 in one shot, you know. That's more

01:19:47.060 --> 01:19:50.000
firemen got killed in the New York Fire Department

01:19:50.000 --> 01:19:52.479
than the whole city of Richmond, Virginia. Doesn't

01:19:52.479 --> 01:19:56.140
even have 343 firemen. That whole department

01:19:56.140 --> 01:19:59.680
would have been wiped out. And that's what was

01:19:59.680 --> 01:20:04.939
so hard for the world to even comprehend. encompass

01:20:04.939 --> 01:20:08.579
that kind of grief on such a grand scale but

01:20:08.579 --> 01:20:11.180
we're still here and i guess we have purpose

01:20:11.180 --> 01:20:14.640
and that's what we do so i try to share the story

01:20:14.640 --> 01:20:18.680
and i always try to extrapolate it with yeah

01:20:18.680 --> 01:20:20.979
we all understand life is short that's how one

01:20:20.979 --> 01:20:24.420
few minutes can change your whole life and you

01:20:24.420 --> 01:20:29.840
know try to do good and pay it forward what is

01:20:29.840 --> 01:20:33.840
it you think that contributed to kind of letting

01:20:33.840 --> 01:20:35.779
go of that. I mean, of course, we want to, you

01:20:35.779 --> 01:20:37.539
know, move on and grieve and all those things

01:20:37.539 --> 01:20:39.659
when it comes to the community and rebuild, you

01:20:39.659 --> 01:20:43.920
know, one world trade. But, you know, it wasn't

01:20:43.920 --> 01:20:47.000
that long ago that that happened. Now you start

01:20:47.000 --> 01:20:49.220
losing people to all the different elements that

01:20:49.220 --> 01:20:51.699
are related to 9 -11, whether it was the cancers,

01:20:51.779 --> 01:20:54.460
whether it was the suicides. And then you're

01:20:54.460 --> 01:20:56.840
seeing, and I know he was merely just, you know,

01:20:56.840 --> 01:20:58.739
putting it front and center. I know there were

01:20:58.739 --> 01:21:00.399
so many people behind this movement, but we're

01:21:00.399 --> 01:21:03.039
watching Jon Stewart do this, you know, very

01:21:03.039 --> 01:21:06.960
emotional speech to just simply get these benefits

01:21:06.960 --> 01:21:09.260
to these people that are dying of cancer to at

01:21:09.260 --> 01:21:12.560
least take care of their families. How did that

01:21:12.560 --> 01:21:15.560
disconnect happen? How do we go from 9 -12 where

01:21:15.560 --> 01:21:19.060
people were so bonded and really empathetically

01:21:19.060 --> 01:21:24.060
hurting for the people of New York to, for example,

01:21:24.060 --> 01:21:26.739
the division that we saw in COVID so far from

01:21:26.739 --> 01:21:31.539
that community? Well, I do remember not too long

01:21:31.539 --> 01:21:35.000
after 9 -11, talking to a few firefighters in

01:21:35.000 --> 01:21:37.380
my brother's firehouse, and I do remember the

01:21:37.380 --> 01:21:40.340
way he said it. He said, hey, you better enjoy

01:21:40.340 --> 01:21:43.739
this adulation that we're having now because

01:21:43.739 --> 01:21:45.520
it's going to go back to normal pretty soon,

01:21:45.659 --> 01:21:48.659
which means politics and this is costing us money

01:21:48.659 --> 01:21:52.819
and why do we have to pay for, you know. So enjoy

01:21:52.819 --> 01:21:56.819
it while you can. And he was right. You know,

01:21:56.819 --> 01:22:00.310
people have forgotten. They'll never forget it,

01:22:00.369 --> 01:22:02.229
but it's never going to be as intense as it was

01:22:02.229 --> 01:22:05.050
that moment. You know, and people do. They tend

01:22:05.050 --> 01:22:07.470
to, time heals all wounds. And it didn't heal

01:22:07.470 --> 01:22:09.649
it, but it makes it less. And now all of a sudden

01:22:09.649 --> 01:22:11.850
there's all these firefighters dying from cancers

01:22:11.850 --> 01:22:14.670
and lung disease and brain tumors and all kinds

01:22:14.670 --> 01:22:17.170
of, I've lost so many friends. I mean, I'm getting

01:22:17.170 --> 01:22:20.529
things once a month. Knock wood, I haven't had

01:22:20.529 --> 01:22:24.590
any medical complications from it. But the fire

01:22:24.590 --> 01:22:26.869
department's been really, the FDNY has been great.

01:22:27.390 --> 01:22:31.189
They give us annual medicals. I mean, they really

01:22:31.189 --> 01:22:33.489
have been, I have to say, they've really been

01:22:33.489 --> 01:22:37.770
terrific. And there are agencies that are compensating,

01:22:37.770 --> 01:22:40.310
the Victims' Compensation Fund. So they're being

01:22:40.310 --> 01:22:42.590
looked after, but it doesn't help if you're gone.

01:22:43.710 --> 01:22:46.170
And that's where I try to say, keep your nutrition,

01:22:46.369 --> 01:22:48.170
your health, your fitness up so that you may

01:22:48.170 --> 01:22:54.630
be not so susceptible to some disease. We all

01:22:54.630 --> 01:22:58.270
know that the transition, is extremely jarring

01:22:58.270 --> 01:23:01.430
so you wore this uniform for 20 plus years you

01:23:01.430 --> 01:23:03.609
know you had this incredible tribe that you loved

01:23:03.609 --> 01:23:05.989
you had the sense of purpose you know you drive

01:23:05.989 --> 01:23:07.989
home like so many of us do knowing that you made

01:23:07.989 --> 01:23:10.710
a difference in the world and then one day you

01:23:10.710 --> 01:23:12.630
know that door closes behind you for the final

01:23:12.630 --> 01:23:15.350
time and for a lot of people that is you know

01:23:15.350 --> 01:23:18.229
you've sometimes allowed that to be your incomplete

01:23:18.229 --> 01:23:21.369
identity and that could be jarring as well but

01:23:21.369 --> 01:23:25.619
your transition span 9 -11 which is a whole Another

01:23:25.619 --> 01:23:28.720
level. So what was the transition like for you?

01:23:30.560 --> 01:23:32.960
Well, you're talking about mentally, emotionally?

01:23:33.260 --> 01:23:37.180
Yeah, all the things. Yeah. Yeah. Well, again,

01:23:37.319 --> 01:23:40.199
it's a very high profile thing. And I'm dealing

01:23:40.199 --> 01:23:43.699
with that now. I just got certified by the IAFF

01:23:43.699 --> 01:23:48.239
to do peer counseling for PTSD and suicide. I

01:23:48.239 --> 01:23:51.579
told you my brother in 2012 took his life. He

01:23:51.579 --> 01:23:53.840
was working with me side by side at Ground Zero.

01:23:54.800 --> 01:23:56.880
9 -11 was one of the things he was struggling

01:23:56.880 --> 01:23:58.760
with. He had other life issues and stuff like

01:23:58.760 --> 01:24:01.979
that. And I don't think 9 -11 was the reason

01:24:01.979 --> 01:24:03.880
that he did it, but it certainly didn't help.

01:24:03.979 --> 01:24:08.039
And he didn't process it as well as maybe I did.

01:24:08.819 --> 01:24:10.979
And I've certainly gone for professional help

01:24:10.979 --> 01:24:15.159
to really walk through it and say why and the

01:24:15.159 --> 01:24:18.399
survivor guilt and all that stuff. So that's

01:24:18.399 --> 01:24:20.560
really what I'm trying to do now is to try to

01:24:20.560 --> 01:24:22.800
help. When I do seminars, yeah, some of it's

01:24:22.800 --> 01:24:24.539
leading to health, fitness, nutrition. I'd like

01:24:24.539 --> 01:24:27.739
to do that. But this whole other avenue of the

01:24:27.739 --> 01:24:29.819
mental side of it, because it is, it's a huge

01:24:29.819 --> 01:24:31.840
part of your identity. You go and they don't

01:24:31.840 --> 01:24:34.539
prepare you for it. I mean, one minute you're

01:24:34.539 --> 01:24:36.939
a high profile rock star, New York City fireman.

01:24:37.479 --> 01:24:39.600
And you're okay. You got 20 years on. Do you

01:24:39.600 --> 01:24:41.119
want to put your papers in? They type in some

01:24:41.119 --> 01:24:42.920
numbers. This is what it's going to be. Grab

01:24:42.920 --> 01:24:44.699
your gear, hang your gear up, return your gear

01:24:44.699 --> 01:24:47.840
and goodbye. And, you know, every farmer will

01:24:47.840 --> 01:24:49.960
say, oh, I can't wait. It's so funny to hear

01:24:49.960 --> 01:24:51.800
them say, I can't wait to retire. I'm going to

01:24:51.800 --> 01:24:53.680
fish every day or I'm going to golf every day.

01:24:54.319 --> 01:24:58.680
And then you go from the camaraderie, the laughs,

01:24:58.840 --> 01:25:02.260
the excitement, the adventure, the excitement,

01:25:02.260 --> 01:25:06.399
all of it to, what, golfing and fishing? How

01:25:06.399 --> 01:25:07.939
much can you fish? How much can you golf? They

01:25:07.939 --> 01:25:09.760
really should do. And they are trying to do a

01:25:09.760 --> 01:25:12.960
better job at preparing you for retirement. You

01:25:12.960 --> 01:25:14.779
know, I'm working with two organizations. Tunnel

01:25:14.779 --> 01:25:18.149
to Towers is one. and IAFF and also there's another

01:25:18.149 --> 01:25:21.670
great organization ffbha .org and they deal with

01:25:21.670 --> 01:25:25.310
firefighter suicides and uh there's firefight

01:25:25.310 --> 01:25:29.250
you know I've been trying to get back into doing

01:25:29.250 --> 01:25:30.970
the seminars and stuff it took me a while to

01:25:30.970 --> 01:25:35.989
get over my brother's loss but I say to the fire

01:25:35.989 --> 01:25:38.170
service that are contemplating doing seminars

01:25:39.050 --> 01:25:40.930
Listen, I was in a ladder company, in a busy

01:25:40.930 --> 01:25:43.649
ladder company. I know how to do forcible entry,

01:25:43.930 --> 01:25:45.569
roof ventilation. I can do all those classes.

01:25:45.869 --> 01:25:47.930
And those are the classes that are sold out.

01:25:48.430 --> 01:25:50.770
But more firefighters are dying from suicide

01:25:50.770 --> 01:25:52.489
than are dying from line -of -duty injuries.

01:25:53.229 --> 01:25:56.449
So that's where the focus should be. So, yeah,

01:25:56.489 --> 01:26:00.310
give a class on forcible entry, roof ventilation,

01:26:00.930 --> 01:26:05.840
ladders, do that. But maybe at some point do

01:26:05.840 --> 01:26:08.020
a class on, listen, someday, fellas, you're 28,

01:26:08.500 --> 01:26:10.779
you're 30. Someday you're going to retire and

01:26:10.779 --> 01:26:13.279
you're going to be older and you're going to

01:26:13.279 --> 01:26:15.220
maybe lose your identity. I don't know. But I

01:26:15.220 --> 01:26:17.460
want to prepare you for that. And I want to prevent

01:26:17.460 --> 01:26:20.500
this. You know, if I tell you more firefighters

01:26:20.500 --> 01:26:23.300
are dying from suicide than are dying from line

01:26:23.300 --> 01:26:24.640
of duty injuries, then that's where you should

01:26:24.640 --> 01:26:28.300
put your focus. You know, let's talk, shop, talk,

01:26:28.399 --> 01:26:32.100
job, talk, forcible entry. Yeah, great. But someday

01:26:32.100 --> 01:26:33.439
that's not going to be your conversation. Your

01:26:33.439 --> 01:26:34.680
conversation is like, what are you doing when

01:26:34.680 --> 01:26:37.520
you're retired? Sitting around watching reruns?

01:26:38.600 --> 01:26:40.479
You know, you lose your, you know, and that's,

01:26:40.479 --> 01:26:42.039
there's nothing wrong with that. But as long

01:26:42.039 --> 01:26:44.880
as you're in a good mental state, you know, and

01:26:44.880 --> 01:26:47.939
I just, I've seen so many lose their identity.

01:26:48.300 --> 01:26:51.180
And yeah, I had the book stuff happening. So

01:26:51.180 --> 01:26:53.199
it kept kind of, especially after 9 -11, I got

01:26:53.199 --> 01:26:56.300
more and more calls to do stuff. And it was really

01:26:56.300 --> 01:26:58.180
kind of crazy for a while. And I'm actually,

01:26:58.220 --> 01:27:00.840
to this day, I'm still getting it. I'm still

01:27:00.840 --> 01:27:03.520
getting appearances and stuff like that. So I

01:27:03.520 --> 01:27:05.279
still have a little bit of a tie to the fire

01:27:05.279 --> 01:27:09.920
service. But you got to really prepare yourself

01:27:09.920 --> 01:27:13.180
to retire. It's not like here's a great paycheck

01:27:13.180 --> 01:27:16.380
and medical and dental is paid for. And all right,

01:27:16.380 --> 01:27:17.920
one minute you're a hero. Next minute, you're

01:27:17.920 --> 01:27:19.739
just another old man on the line in the supermarket.

01:27:21.600 --> 01:27:24.739
Yeah, I've had a few people of the military community

01:27:24.739 --> 01:27:29.460
say that. One minute you're in Somalia or...

01:27:29.640 --> 01:27:32.500
Fallujah or whatever. And the next minute you're

01:27:32.500 --> 01:27:34.640
in the grocery store and they said, no one gives

01:27:34.640 --> 01:27:37.359
a shit what you did before. You're a civilian

01:27:37.359 --> 01:27:39.800
at that point. And it's the same with us. It's

01:27:39.800 --> 01:27:41.060
like, yeah, you could have been on all these

01:27:41.060 --> 01:27:43.920
incredible rescues and fires. And it's amazing

01:27:43.920 --> 01:27:46.539
that you were. But once you've taken that uniform

01:27:46.539 --> 01:27:49.479
off, you'll know, your crew will know, the people

01:27:49.479 --> 01:27:51.939
that you actually affected will know. But everyone

01:27:51.939 --> 01:27:54.979
else around you, they don't care. And they shouldn't

01:27:54.979 --> 01:27:56.920
care. You're just another member of that grocery

01:27:56.920 --> 01:28:00.250
store at that point. But if you've just lived

01:28:00.250 --> 01:28:03.130
this identity of this is what I am, you know,

01:28:03.130 --> 01:28:04.970
we see those veterans that are plastered from

01:28:04.970 --> 01:28:06.989
head to toe with, you know, whatever regalia

01:28:06.989 --> 01:28:10.050
from whatever conflict. And that's something

01:28:10.050 --> 01:28:12.250
to be very proud of. But at what point does that

01:28:12.250 --> 01:28:16.210
become all of you rather than I am a man or I'm

01:28:16.210 --> 01:28:18.970
a woman. And I entered this honorable profession

01:28:18.970 --> 01:28:21.710
and I served and I loved it. And then I took

01:28:21.710 --> 01:28:23.569
the uniform off and then I served in a different

01:28:23.569 --> 01:28:26.069
way. I joined a peer support team or whatever

01:28:26.069 --> 01:28:29.500
it was. But it can be very, very dangerous if

01:28:29.500 --> 01:28:32.640
that's all you have. You're clinging on to the

01:28:32.640 --> 01:28:35.560
identity because one day it will be gone. And

01:28:35.560 --> 01:28:39.359
the most jarring thing is to realize that the

01:28:39.359 --> 01:28:41.100
next shift when you should have been in that

01:28:41.100 --> 01:28:43.979
seat, someone else will be and the machine just

01:28:43.979 --> 01:28:48.359
keeps on moving. Yeah, there was a line in the

01:28:48.359 --> 01:28:51.399
movie The Bronx Tale. Did you ever see that movie?

01:28:51.899 --> 01:28:53.800
I think I have. It was a long time ago, though.

01:28:54.230 --> 01:28:56.289
Yeah, Chaz Parmentieri, that's what he said to

01:28:56.289 --> 01:28:59.409
the young guy when he went to the funeral. He

01:28:59.409 --> 01:29:03.210
said, hey, kid, nobody cares. And you hate to

01:29:03.210 --> 01:29:05.130
be like that, but nobody wants to hear you used

01:29:05.130 --> 01:29:07.810
to be a fireman. Once in a while, you still get

01:29:07.810 --> 01:29:09.970
adulation and you still get a little bit of it,

01:29:09.989 --> 01:29:13.949
but you yourself, that's all nice, but you yourself

01:29:13.949 --> 01:29:16.810
are not part of that action anymore. And that's

01:29:16.810 --> 01:29:19.649
the reason I really never wanted to go back and

01:29:19.649 --> 01:29:22.210
have a cup of coffee in the firehouse. because

01:29:22.210 --> 01:29:24.630
I would see older guys come back and they were,

01:29:24.750 --> 01:29:27.829
unfortunately, somebody, some, one of the other

01:29:27.829 --> 01:29:30.890
podcast guys did a podcast on that very thing.

01:29:31.470 --> 01:29:33.470
How about being respectful to these guys that

01:29:33.470 --> 01:29:36.390
come back and want to tell you a story, you know,

01:29:36.390 --> 01:29:37.609
instead of like, ah, what are you doing here?

01:29:37.630 --> 01:29:40.470
Pops, you're retired, go golf. And I've seen

01:29:40.470 --> 01:29:42.829
them be really cruel. I never was, but I saw

01:29:42.829 --> 01:29:46.510
them be really cruel to retirees. That stopped

01:29:46.510 --> 01:29:48.590
around for coffee. Because in their mind, they're

01:29:48.590 --> 01:29:50.310
thinking like, this is the last place I'd ever

01:29:50.310 --> 01:29:53.609
want to come if I was retired. Once I'm out of

01:29:53.609 --> 01:29:54.930
here, I'm out of here. But they don't really

01:29:54.930 --> 01:29:57.989
realize that someday you're going to miss it.

01:29:58.710 --> 01:30:00.989
So I did a podcast a little while ago, and they

01:30:00.989 --> 01:30:06.829
were asking me for tactical advice. I said, listen,

01:30:06.930 --> 01:30:08.750
I'd be more than happy to share that on another

01:30:08.750 --> 01:30:11.470
podcast with you. But right now, what I want

01:30:11.470 --> 01:30:14.409
to tell you. Young firefighter. They said, yeah,

01:30:14.430 --> 01:30:16.189
any advice for young firefighters? I go, yes.

01:30:16.989 --> 01:30:19.970
Embrace where you are right now. Because someday

01:30:19.970 --> 01:30:22.810
this is going to be gone. Not every minute of

01:30:22.810 --> 01:30:24.770
every day, but look around every once in a while.

01:30:25.350 --> 01:30:28.489
And say, wow, the smell of this place. The look

01:30:28.489 --> 01:30:31.670
of this place. Pulling out of quarters for a

01:30:31.670 --> 01:30:34.949
run. Helping somebody. The laughs. The crazy

01:30:34.949 --> 01:30:38.090
idiots that you work with. You better embrace

01:30:38.090 --> 01:30:40.329
it. Every once in a while. And I actually did.

01:30:40.970 --> 01:30:43.850
Every once in a while. You know, yeah, it got

01:30:43.850 --> 01:30:46.689
a little boring towards the end. And but every

01:30:46.689 --> 01:30:49.250
once in a while, I would jump on the rig and

01:30:49.250 --> 01:30:52.189
I would look around and I go, this is the coolest

01:30:52.189 --> 01:30:55.390
effing job in the freaking world. You know, and

01:30:55.390 --> 01:30:57.510
I would really I would really take it deep inside

01:30:57.510 --> 01:30:59.390
and say, wow, this is and this is not going to

01:30:59.390 --> 01:31:03.430
be forever. But right now, this is pretty freaking

01:31:03.430 --> 01:31:07.880
cool. So that's why I say embrace it. Learn your

01:31:07.880 --> 01:31:10.680
job, learn your skills, learn your tactics, keep

01:31:10.680 --> 01:31:13.399
in shape, eat right, enjoy your meal, but embrace

01:31:13.399 --> 01:31:15.979
it while it's happening, which most people don't

01:31:15.979 --> 01:31:19.979
do. With anything, really. Yeah, no, exactly.

01:31:20.260 --> 01:31:24.380
You mentioned about people focusing on the forceful

01:31:24.380 --> 01:31:25.899
entry and those kind of things, and you're right.

01:31:25.960 --> 01:31:28.180
Those are the ones that the hands -on trainings

01:31:28.180 --> 01:31:30.840
that are sold out in minutes on a lot of conferences.

01:31:32.140 --> 01:31:34.500
A kind of realization that I've had, especially

01:31:34.500 --> 01:31:36.760
if you kind of leave New York and extend into

01:31:36.760 --> 01:31:39.819
the fire slash EMS departments that a lot of

01:31:39.819 --> 01:31:43.880
the other country have, is the frequency of fires,

01:31:43.920 --> 01:31:47.699
even during my career, I watched it kind of decline.

01:31:48.020 --> 01:31:50.039
And it's sad because, as you said, you want to

01:31:50.039 --> 01:31:51.899
be there. You want to have your own war years

01:31:51.899 --> 01:31:55.439
experience. This is for a good reason. Fire prevention

01:31:55.439 --> 01:31:57.760
and construction have actually made it safer

01:31:57.760 --> 01:32:00.840
and safer for the homeowners and the residents,

01:32:00.939 --> 01:32:03.880
and the fires are fewer and further between.

01:32:04.739 --> 01:32:08.579
So there's this kind of holding on to the identity

01:32:08.579 --> 01:32:10.979
of a firefighter, even though if you look at

01:32:10.979 --> 01:32:13.399
it statistically, it's a small portion of all

01:32:13.399 --> 01:32:15.319
the things that we actually respond to over a

01:32:15.319 --> 01:32:18.640
year. And absolutely, you need to be courageous,

01:32:18.819 --> 01:32:20.939
whether you're making entry to fire, whether

01:32:20.939 --> 01:32:24.079
you're 100 feet up on an aerial, whether you're

01:32:24.079 --> 01:32:28.920
cutting on a roof. But where you can affect every

01:32:28.920 --> 01:32:32.079
single day is having the courage to actually

01:32:32.079 --> 01:32:34.060
address the things that are killing our firefighters.

01:32:34.699 --> 01:32:37.720
So being courageously vulnerable with your own

01:32:37.720 --> 01:32:41.460
story, fighting for a work week that's healthy.

01:32:42.800 --> 01:32:44.720
the contaminants to be taken from your gear.

01:32:44.819 --> 01:32:47.479
These are all areas I think that we can be courageous

01:32:47.479 --> 01:32:50.500
that don't involve an axe and a halogen. And

01:32:50.500 --> 01:32:52.680
sometimes I feel like there's a kind of disconnect

01:32:52.680 --> 01:32:56.319
between what a firefighter looks like and, you

01:32:56.319 --> 01:32:58.640
know, the kind of perception of who we are on

01:32:58.640 --> 01:33:02.600
a fire ground specifically and the equal courage

01:33:02.600 --> 01:33:04.819
it takes to be an advocate in your own department

01:33:04.819 --> 01:33:07.979
and fight for changes that will actually save.

01:33:08.560 --> 01:33:10.479
not only the lives of the people that we're serving

01:33:10.479 --> 01:33:12.659
but the actual lives of the people wearing the

01:33:12.659 --> 01:33:18.560
uniform yeah but unfortunately you have to be

01:33:18.560 --> 01:33:22.939
ready to hear that and you know a 20 a 30 year

01:33:22.939 --> 01:33:25.020
old fireman wants to learn about taking a door

01:33:25.020 --> 01:33:27.380
he doesn't want to hear that i'm going to be

01:33:27.380 --> 01:33:30.560
50 when you're 30 you never think you're going

01:33:30.560 --> 01:33:33.000
to be 50. and when you're 50 you don't think

01:33:33.000 --> 01:33:34.539
you're going to be 70 and when you're 70 you

01:33:34.539 --> 01:33:37.199
don't think you're gonna be 90. they don't think

01:33:37.199 --> 01:33:39.319
they're i'm It's not going to happen to me. I

01:33:39.319 --> 01:33:41.880
love this job. I'm never going to have PTSD,

01:33:42.140 --> 01:33:44.680
and I'm not going to – I can handle anything.

01:33:45.840 --> 01:33:51.119
And we all have a breaking point. So I'm not

01:33:51.119 --> 01:33:53.399
telling you somebody is hitting your breaking

01:33:53.399 --> 01:33:55.979
point, and maybe someday that will – and I pray

01:33:55.979 --> 01:33:58.079
for you that it will never happen. But if it

01:33:58.079 --> 01:33:59.600
does, I want you to be ready, just like you're

01:33:59.600 --> 01:34:01.140
ready to take a door and you know what tools

01:34:01.140 --> 01:34:03.159
you need and what you're going to be ready. At

01:34:03.159 --> 01:34:04.760
least you have some education. Say, listen, if

01:34:04.760 --> 01:34:06.500
this does happen to me or happens to a friend

01:34:06.500 --> 01:34:08.420
of mine, at least I have some awareness of it.

01:34:08.859 --> 01:34:11.420
Like you can't really focus on it too much. It's

01:34:11.420 --> 01:34:13.859
really not a happy subject. Taking a door is

01:34:13.859 --> 01:34:15.739
action and you hit the thing and they want to,

01:34:15.739 --> 01:34:19.779
you know. But sitting around talking about suicide

01:34:19.779 --> 01:34:23.260
is not or, you know, PTSD and that you never

01:34:23.260 --> 01:34:26.220
think it's going to happen to you. You know,

01:34:26.239 --> 01:34:28.140
listen, if when I was 30, if somebody would have

01:34:28.140 --> 01:34:29.880
said to me, you're going to go through 9 -11

01:34:29.880 --> 01:34:31.439
and you're going to lose your brother to suicide,

01:34:31.640 --> 01:34:34.119
I'd be like, what? And then you might need help.

01:34:34.180 --> 01:34:36.979
And I'm like, no, I'm having a ball. I don't

01:34:36.979 --> 01:34:39.579
even want to think about it. You know, and if

01:34:39.579 --> 01:34:41.020
it does happen, I'll deal with it when it happens.

01:34:41.060 --> 01:34:43.520
That's what you think. But you don't have the

01:34:43.520 --> 01:34:45.119
tools, just like you don't have the tools to

01:34:45.119 --> 01:34:46.380
take a door. You don't have the tools to deal

01:34:46.380 --> 01:34:49.479
with it, which is why you go for help. But long

01:34:49.479 --> 01:34:51.079
before you get the help, if you have some awareness.

01:34:51.399 --> 01:34:54.829
So I like to stick by the thing when I. if I

01:34:54.829 --> 01:34:57.090
talk or I give a seminar, I counsel people, I

01:34:57.090 --> 01:34:59.510
go, you know, if it's somebody that really cares

01:34:59.510 --> 01:35:01.550
about you and they're telling you something,

01:35:01.630 --> 01:35:07.470
you might not be ready to hear it, but don't

01:35:07.470 --> 01:35:09.909
completely discount it. Put it away someplace

01:35:09.909 --> 01:35:14.329
because you may need it at another time. So just

01:35:14.329 --> 01:35:16.289
if it's somebody that really cares about you.

01:35:17.039 --> 01:35:19.000
and they're doing a seminar or it's somebody

01:35:19.000 --> 01:35:20.939
that's taking interest and they say, I know you're

01:35:20.939 --> 01:35:23.340
not thinking about dealing, but I'm giving you

01:35:23.340 --> 01:35:25.760
some good information. I know you're not ready

01:35:25.760 --> 01:35:28.340
to hear it, but put it away someplace that you

01:35:28.340 --> 01:35:31.460
can access it when you need it. No different

01:35:31.460 --> 01:35:35.180
than taking a door. You might go five years without

01:35:35.180 --> 01:35:38.359
ever having to take a door, but then you get

01:35:38.359 --> 01:35:40.119
presented with having it and now I don't know

01:35:40.119 --> 01:35:43.199
how to do it. It's really the same thing, giving

01:35:43.199 --> 01:35:44.920
you some tools. You don't need them right now,

01:35:44.979 --> 01:35:48.020
but we're giving you some tools. Because someday,

01:35:48.180 --> 01:35:51.279
and I care about you, so put this away. Maybe

01:35:51.279 --> 01:35:54.600
you'll need it at another time. Where I found

01:35:54.600 --> 01:35:57.460
you can get a foothold on this conversation on

01:35:57.460 --> 01:36:00.100
the kind of naysayers is to flip it around to

01:36:00.100 --> 01:36:03.739
performance. So a good analogy is the firefighter

01:36:03.739 --> 01:36:04.939
that you were talking about earlier, the one

01:36:04.939 --> 01:36:06.939
that's very deconditioned, you know, extremely

01:36:06.939 --> 01:36:10.149
overweight. You know, if you want to be the best

01:36:10.149 --> 01:36:12.130
version of yourself as a firefighter, obviously,

01:36:12.170 --> 01:36:15.409
you need to get in the gym, look at your nutrition,

01:36:15.550 --> 01:36:17.390
lose some of this weight. And now, oh, my goodness,

01:36:17.489 --> 01:36:19.109
now you're freaking crushing it. You're climbing

01:36:19.109 --> 01:36:21.210
10 stories. You're barely even breathing hard.

01:36:21.310 --> 01:36:23.409
And now you took that door and made the primary.

01:36:24.409 --> 01:36:26.189
I think it's the same with the mental health

01:36:26.189 --> 01:36:29.489
conversation. If you are fighting for, you know,

01:36:29.489 --> 01:36:31.789
the sleep and recovery that you need to perform

01:36:31.789 --> 01:36:33.949
at a high level, if you're doing the work, whatever

01:36:33.949 --> 01:36:35.869
works for you, it might be meditation or ice

01:36:35.869 --> 01:36:38.109
baths or, you know, whatever those things are,

01:36:38.250 --> 01:36:40.810
that's going to forge performance. And if you

01:36:40.810 --> 01:36:42.609
look at the sporting world, they do all those

01:36:42.609 --> 01:36:46.789
things. So thinking that you'll be okay just

01:36:46.789 --> 01:36:48.810
doing the same thing with your mental health.

01:36:49.319 --> 01:36:51.939
It's the same exact rhetoric as the 300 -pound

01:36:51.939 --> 01:36:53.859
firefighter saying, oh, you just wait when the

01:36:53.859 --> 01:36:57.300
adrenaline kicks in. I'll be like a bull. You

01:36:57.300 --> 01:36:59.060
know, you're kidding yourself from that point

01:36:59.060 --> 01:37:01.859
of view. So if you don't think that the mental

01:37:01.859 --> 01:37:05.340
health conversation is relevant for you at 25,

01:37:05.600 --> 01:37:08.960
30 years old, flip it around. Think about, well,

01:37:09.020 --> 01:37:10.920
if you want to be the best firefighter, then

01:37:10.920 --> 01:37:13.279
you need to get your mind calm. You can't get

01:37:13.279 --> 01:37:16.680
into a flow state with a busy mind. So if you

01:37:16.680 --> 01:37:18.300
want to be able to map out that apartment and

01:37:18.300 --> 01:37:20.659
you do a right -hand search and actually not

01:37:20.659 --> 01:37:23.539
miss that kid under the bed, then this is the

01:37:23.539 --> 01:37:26.800
same exact conversation as working on your mental

01:37:26.800 --> 01:37:28.659
health and actually processing the trauma as

01:37:28.659 --> 01:37:33.680
well. Those two are completely parallel. Agreed.

01:37:34.399 --> 01:37:37.020
Agreed. And again, you have to be ready for the

01:37:37.020 --> 01:37:39.020
information. It's no different than if you have

01:37:39.020 --> 01:37:42.699
any, the AA program, which is wonderful for people

01:37:42.699 --> 01:37:46.800
who have alcohol problems. But I remember reading

01:37:46.800 --> 01:37:49.039
something. One of these rock stars, I guess,

01:37:49.060 --> 01:37:52.000
had a drug and alcohol problem. And he went to

01:37:52.000 --> 01:37:55.800
one of these AA or NA meetings and he asked one

01:37:55.800 --> 01:37:58.420
of the old timers that had been there for 30

01:37:58.420 --> 01:38:02.140
years. And he goes, how do you stop drinking?

01:38:02.560 --> 01:38:04.840
And how do you stop using drugs? And he goes,

01:38:05.000 --> 01:38:08.739
don't do drugs, go to meetings. The answer is

01:38:08.739 --> 01:38:11.399
always simple. Like you just said, you talk to

01:38:11.399 --> 01:38:13.810
a 30 -year -old fireman and you say. Could you

01:38:13.810 --> 01:38:16.390
ever see yourself committing suicide? They'd

01:38:16.390 --> 01:38:19.149
get mad at you. It wasn't even in my wheelhouse.

01:38:19.989 --> 01:38:25.750
My own brother. My own brother. 15 years ago,

01:38:25.810 --> 01:38:28.649
if I would have said to him, you're going to

01:38:28.649 --> 01:38:33.930
crush your family. Me included. And you know

01:38:33.930 --> 01:38:35.789
what you're going to do? You're going to park

01:38:35.789 --> 01:38:38.489
your car in Cleveland. You're going to drop your

01:38:38.489 --> 01:38:40.260
daughter off at school. You're going to drop.

01:38:40.319 --> 01:38:42.260
And that's why I like to put a picture of somebody.

01:38:42.300 --> 01:38:44.520
I don't have a picture handy of him, but I just

01:38:44.520 --> 01:38:45.960
like to put a picture because nobody believes

01:38:45.960 --> 01:38:48.359
it's going to happen to them. And he wouldn't

01:38:48.359 --> 01:38:50.279
have. If I would have told him 15 years ago,

01:38:50.380 --> 01:38:53.720
you're going to park your car, drop your daughter

01:38:53.720 --> 01:38:57.300
off at school, park your car in Cleveland. You're

01:38:57.300 --> 01:38:59.659
going to walk eight minutes to the highest point

01:38:59.659 --> 01:39:02.739
of a bridge and you're going to jump off onto

01:39:02.739 --> 01:39:05.760
hard ground, not into water. He'd be like, what?

01:39:06.220 --> 01:39:09.600
What are you coming up with this stuff? He'd

01:39:09.600 --> 01:39:12.899
probably throw a punch my way. Same thing. I

01:39:12.899 --> 01:39:15.800
lost three friends to suicide in the fire service.

01:39:18.220 --> 01:39:21.359
And all three of them, I would have said never,

01:39:21.500 --> 01:39:24.380
never. And if I would have brought it up to them

01:39:24.380 --> 01:39:26.140
15 years ago, they would have been like, don't

01:39:26.140 --> 01:39:28.920
even say that to me. You're pissing me off. You're,

01:39:28.939 --> 01:39:32.119
you know, I'm going to put myself in the garage,

01:39:32.399 --> 01:39:34.640
duct tape the seams of the garage and start the

01:39:34.640 --> 01:39:37.279
car and lay it by the tailpipe. Are you kidding

01:39:37.279 --> 01:39:39.649
me? That's what he would have said to me. Yet

01:39:39.649 --> 01:39:44.949
he did it. Something, something, whatever was

01:39:44.949 --> 01:39:47.430
stressing him got to the point of this became

01:39:47.430 --> 01:39:50.449
a decision. So when I give seminars, that's what

01:39:50.449 --> 01:39:55.670
I try to say. I say how it starts. And I haven't

01:39:55.670 --> 01:39:57.569
done one yet. I'm dying to do one. I keep putting

01:39:57.569 --> 01:39:59.069
my name out there, but I keep getting turned

01:39:59.069 --> 01:40:01.250
down. I'm like, listen, you got a forcible entry

01:40:01.250 --> 01:40:03.590
class. I could do that. But why don't we, after

01:40:03.590 --> 01:40:05.810
the forcible entry class, have a little 30 minute

01:40:05.810 --> 01:40:08.670
session on. preventing this and they're like

01:40:08.670 --> 01:40:11.289
no they don't want to you know so i just present

01:40:11.289 --> 01:40:13.329
the ptsd thing and they go no thank you very

01:40:13.329 --> 01:40:15.689
you know thanks for your application but we're

01:40:15.689 --> 01:40:20.689
not doing that you know so it's not that they're

01:40:20.689 --> 01:40:22.569
resistant to it i just don't think they're going

01:40:22.569 --> 01:40:25.069
to get the numbers you know people are not going

01:40:25.069 --> 01:40:28.609
to sign up you know so that's one of the problems

01:40:28.609 --> 01:40:30.470
so i try to present it in a light that's a little

01:40:30.470 --> 01:40:33.750
bit fun and you know entertaining maybe a little

01:40:33.750 --> 01:40:36.270
bit but grievous on on another point because

01:40:36.270 --> 01:40:38.210
they Never think it's going to happen to them.

01:40:38.289 --> 01:40:41.890
And God, I hope it doesn't. But I want you to

01:40:41.890 --> 01:40:43.649
prevent it and I want you to prevent maybe somebody

01:40:43.649 --> 01:40:45.890
else from it. And you never know who's going

01:40:45.890 --> 01:40:48.130
to be in the right place at the right time. Our

01:40:48.130 --> 01:40:50.229
job is about the wrong place at the wrong time.

01:40:50.630 --> 01:40:52.010
You could be in the right place at the right

01:40:52.010 --> 01:40:53.869
time and say the right thing to somebody to say,

01:40:53.930 --> 01:40:56.630
wow, I can't believe I was even considering that.

01:40:59.369 --> 01:41:03.989
I've had, I think it's 1 ,050 roughly interviews

01:41:03.989 --> 01:41:09.840
now. At least half of those people have been

01:41:09.840 --> 01:41:13.119
in that place, I always say. Many of them, thank

01:41:13.119 --> 01:41:15.439
God, stopped at the last minute. A few of them

01:41:15.439 --> 01:41:16.840
went through with it and they survived their

01:41:16.840 --> 01:41:20.380
attempt. Kevin Hines jumped off the Golden Gate

01:41:20.380 --> 01:41:22.819
Bridge. Emma Benoit survived a gunshot wound.

01:41:23.199 --> 01:41:25.760
And now they're huge advocates for mental health

01:41:25.760 --> 01:41:28.479
because the moment Kevin left the bridge, everything

01:41:28.479 --> 01:41:31.479
came back and he instantly regretted it. I remember

01:41:31.479 --> 01:41:34.340
reading it. Yeah, it's an amazing story. But

01:41:34.340 --> 01:41:36.579
as I've listened to so many of these people,

01:41:36.760 --> 01:41:39.960
you know, when I was young, like all of us, we

01:41:39.960 --> 01:41:42.560
were told that suicide was selfish and cowardly

01:41:42.560 --> 01:41:44.239
and how could they and think of your family.

01:41:44.939 --> 01:41:47.659
You listen to these men and women that thank

01:41:47.659 --> 01:41:50.020
God are here to actually come on a podcast and

01:41:50.020 --> 01:41:52.119
share their story and give us some of these warning

01:41:52.119 --> 01:41:56.380
signs. through whatever their personal perfect

01:41:56.380 --> 01:42:00.119
storm of contributing factors were so unaddressed

01:42:00.119 --> 01:42:02.340
things from their childhood you know sleep deprivation

01:42:02.340 --> 01:42:04.880
from say you know being a firefighter the trauma

01:42:04.880 --> 01:42:08.159
we see at work organizational stress the side

01:42:08.159 --> 01:42:11.239
effects of alcohol and pills you know psych pills

01:42:11.239 --> 01:42:14.760
even you've got this perfect storm and their

01:42:14.760 --> 01:42:18.829
reality is distorted And so many of them, there's

01:42:18.829 --> 01:42:20.569
of course the kind of pain that they want to

01:42:20.569 --> 01:42:24.270
end, but so many of them also truly believe that

01:42:24.270 --> 01:42:27.029
they are the cause for their family's pain. They

01:42:27.029 --> 01:42:29.670
are the reason that their family are scared of

01:42:29.670 --> 01:42:33.369
them or whatever it is. And so that little voice

01:42:33.369 --> 01:42:35.710
of the devil is whispering in their ear that

01:42:35.710 --> 01:42:37.949
you're a burden to your family. And if you just

01:42:37.949 --> 01:42:40.710
take your own life, everyone will be happier.

01:42:40.909 --> 01:42:42.949
And so you and me talking about it here, it makes

01:42:42.949 --> 01:42:44.890
no sense because hopefully you and I are sitting

01:42:44.890 --> 01:42:47.460
here with a somewhat healthy. mindset at the

01:42:47.460 --> 01:42:51.479
moment. But to them, there's this absolute belief

01:42:51.479 --> 01:42:55.000
that this is the truth. And so when you think

01:42:55.000 --> 01:42:58.600
about that, at that moment, if they truly believe

01:42:58.600 --> 01:43:01.279
it, if it's me, and I've worked in a profession

01:43:01.279 --> 01:43:04.199
where you would die for a complete stranger.

01:43:04.380 --> 01:43:07.880
Our law enforcement have the very mode of execution

01:43:07.880 --> 01:43:11.539
on their hip even. If I'm the problem, I'm going

01:43:11.539 --> 01:43:14.979
to selflessly and courageously take my own life

01:43:14.979 --> 01:43:19.119
for my family. So the shame and guilt that we

01:43:19.119 --> 01:43:21.279
put on these people that take their own lives

01:43:21.279 --> 01:43:23.039
and how could they? And they just, you know,

01:43:23.060 --> 01:43:25.520
they at that moment, people don't realize that

01:43:25.520 --> 01:43:27.680
they're not thinking that way. They truly have

01:43:27.680 --> 01:43:30.159
been tricked into thinking that they are the

01:43:30.159 --> 01:43:32.119
reason and everyone's going to be happier when

01:43:32.119 --> 01:43:34.520
they take it. So I think one of the biggest red

01:43:34.520 --> 01:43:36.960
flags that just isn't really discussed often.

01:43:37.640 --> 01:43:39.760
is when that person talks about being a piece

01:43:39.760 --> 01:43:44.520
of shit and the kids are scared of them and I'm

01:43:44.520 --> 01:43:46.960
the reason and all this kind of thing, that is

01:43:46.960 --> 01:43:50.680
a huge red flag to say, hey, we need to get you

01:43:50.680 --> 01:43:54.079
some help. Because adding guilt and shame to

01:43:54.079 --> 01:43:56.199
someone who's already drowning in guilt and shame

01:43:56.199 --> 01:44:01.619
only just adds another nail to the coffin. Well,

01:44:01.779 --> 01:44:05.000
from the studying that I've done, and the training

01:44:05.000 --> 01:44:07.239
that i've done that that is one of the factors

01:44:07.239 --> 01:44:10.760
but there's several factors and i tried to put

01:44:10.760 --> 01:44:15.699
my own spin on it and listen life can get hard

01:44:15.699 --> 01:44:18.920
financially physically i mean you could have

01:44:18.920 --> 01:44:21.500
injuries you could have physical pain you could

01:44:21.500 --> 01:44:24.140
have relationship stuff go wrong financial stuff

01:44:24.140 --> 01:44:27.979
go wrong so what i believe my take on it is i

01:44:27.979 --> 01:44:31.020
believe that this firefighter first responder

01:44:31.020 --> 01:44:33.920
police officer that's in trouble Whatever that

01:44:33.920 --> 01:44:37.279
trouble might be, relationship, divorce, financial

01:44:37.279 --> 01:44:40.279
issues, health issues. They start saying life

01:44:40.279 --> 01:44:44.380
sucks. And listen, I would never take my life.

01:44:44.500 --> 01:44:48.199
But if nothing else works out, it's option 20.

01:44:49.579 --> 01:44:53.260
But I got 19 options to go. My wife could find

01:44:53.260 --> 01:44:56.039
herself and want to stay with me. I could win

01:44:56.039 --> 01:44:57.939
the lottery and my financial woes will be over.

01:44:58.159 --> 01:45:00.579
The trouble that I get in at the job, maybe it's

01:45:00.579 --> 01:45:03.630
not that bad. But then all of a sudden other

01:45:03.630 --> 01:45:05.909
things start happening. Daughter doesn't talk

01:45:05.909 --> 01:45:07.529
to you anymore. She's mad at you. You have a

01:45:07.529 --> 01:45:09.550
fight. Now all of a sudden option 20 becomes

01:45:09.550 --> 01:45:13.350
option 15. And it starts moving up the chain.

01:45:13.989 --> 01:45:15.989
And now as more and more things start to come

01:45:15.989 --> 01:45:19.729
apart or unravel, now it starts to become option

01:45:19.729 --> 01:45:22.489
five. When it starts to get close to option one,

01:45:22.569 --> 01:45:26.170
then they start thinking the method. Like, all

01:45:26.170 --> 01:45:28.390
right, listen, my wife could come back. I could

01:45:28.390 --> 01:45:31.800
win the lottery. The IRS is probably going to

01:45:31.800 --> 01:45:34.260
get off my back, whatever the issue is. And then

01:45:34.260 --> 01:45:36.840
all of a sudden the IRS wants money. And your

01:45:36.840 --> 01:45:38.399
wife says, no, I'm leaving you. I can't take

01:45:38.399 --> 01:45:39.760
it. I'm having an affair with your best friend.

01:45:40.300 --> 01:45:42.199
Now it's option three. And now you've already

01:45:42.199 --> 01:45:44.819
said, if I was going to do it, this is how I

01:45:44.819 --> 01:45:48.079
would do it. Gunshot, jump off a bridge, pills,

01:45:48.279 --> 01:45:51.840
whatever your choice is. Now you've moved it

01:45:51.840 --> 01:45:53.979
up the option chain and now you have a way to

01:45:53.979 --> 01:45:57.420
do it. Now all you need is one more thing. The

01:45:57.420 --> 01:46:00.739
strider broke the camel's back. You show up at

01:46:00.739 --> 01:46:05.800
work and they say, I don't know, last time you

01:46:05.800 --> 01:46:07.779
were in that medical call that you went on, they're

01:46:07.779 --> 01:46:09.399
suing the city and they're suing the firehouse.

01:46:10.140 --> 01:46:12.199
Oh, my God, I can't believe this. This is going

01:46:12.199 --> 01:46:15.180
to cost me. Now I have more financial woes. You

01:46:15.180 --> 01:46:17.800
know what? Maybe this just isn't. And I've thought

01:46:17.800 --> 01:46:22.340
about it. Now it's option two. Now you need one

01:46:22.340 --> 01:46:25.479
more thing. And then everything, like you were

01:46:25.479 --> 01:46:28.180
saying, I don't think, I do hear the burden to

01:46:28.180 --> 01:46:30.500
family thing, and maybe they think somehow this

01:46:30.500 --> 01:46:34.979
is, but that's also just one of many. And then

01:46:34.979 --> 01:46:39.000
it becomes, it's go time. The window goes like

01:46:39.000 --> 01:46:43.199
this. And my feeling at the time was, didn't

01:46:43.199 --> 01:46:46.560
you know what this was going to do to me when

01:46:46.560 --> 01:46:50.140
I get this news, when I get the phone call? But

01:46:50.140 --> 01:46:53.750
it's like this. They don't see it. Here's my

01:46:53.750 --> 01:46:56.630
options. I am out of options. I guess they're

01:46:56.630 --> 01:46:57.789
going to have to figure it out and understand

01:46:57.789 --> 01:47:01.350
because it's not that they don't care. They'll

01:47:01.350 --> 01:47:05.170
figure it out. I got to do this. I got to do

01:47:05.170 --> 01:47:08.149
this. There's no way out of this. And they don't

01:47:08.149 --> 01:47:11.250
realize that there are options, which is the

01:47:11.250 --> 01:47:15.590
loss of hope. It's crazy because you could have

01:47:15.590 --> 01:47:17.649
all kinds of financial trouble and you could

01:47:17.649 --> 01:47:19.430
walk into a candy store and buy a lottery ticket

01:47:19.430 --> 01:47:22.609
and win a $55 million lottery. And then what?

01:47:22.649 --> 01:47:23.750
Now all of a sudden you're going to be and now

01:47:23.750 --> 01:47:28.390
you took your life. So it's, you know, it's like

01:47:28.390 --> 01:47:30.069
the movie Kelly's Heroes where he goes, stop

01:47:30.069 --> 01:47:32.829
with the negative waves. And I say that to people

01:47:32.829 --> 01:47:35.609
all the time. Stop with the negative waves. Think

01:47:35.609 --> 01:47:37.550
positive. Oh, yeah, right. I'm really going to

01:47:37.550 --> 01:47:39.810
win the lottery. You don't know. Oh, yeah, I'm

01:47:39.810 --> 01:47:41.430
really going to meet another girl that's as great

01:47:41.430 --> 01:47:44.590
as the one I had. Maybe you will. Maybe. Why

01:47:44.590 --> 01:47:46.930
do you think you won't? Because I think as human

01:47:46.930 --> 01:47:49.310
beings, unfortunately, we project negativeness.

01:47:50.880 --> 01:47:54.000
Like you get a letter from the IRS and you're

01:47:54.000 --> 01:47:55.880
like, oh, my God, I can't believe it. I pay my

01:47:55.880 --> 01:47:58.979
taxes on time. And then you get the IRS letter.

01:47:59.020 --> 01:48:00.619
The next letter comes and says you forgot to

01:48:00.619 --> 01:48:04.119
sign your return. And people have actually taken

01:48:04.119 --> 01:48:08.439
their lives based on getting a letter from the

01:48:08.439 --> 01:48:12.539
IRS saying you're going to owe $35 ,000. But

01:48:12.539 --> 01:48:14.399
they didn't tell you that. They said you're being

01:48:14.399 --> 01:48:17.699
audited. Then you go to the audit. There was

01:48:17.699 --> 01:48:19.460
an episode of The Honeymooners. That's what happened

01:48:19.460 --> 01:48:21.579
in The Honeymooners. Ralph Grimden went. He was

01:48:21.579 --> 01:48:23.359
all worried that the IRS was going to get him.

01:48:23.619 --> 01:48:26.060
And it wound up he didn't sign his return. And

01:48:26.060 --> 01:48:27.800
there were people that have actually got a letter

01:48:27.800 --> 01:48:29.319
from the IRS saying you're going to be audited,

01:48:29.340 --> 01:48:32.779
take their life. And the audit was you never

01:48:32.779 --> 01:48:34.899
signed your return. Your return is perfectly

01:48:34.899 --> 01:48:39.800
fine. You just never signed it. It's hard to

01:48:39.800 --> 01:48:41.500
talk about. Even my own brother, he was having,

01:48:41.600 --> 01:48:44.970
you know. a few marriage issues some issues with

01:48:44.970 --> 01:48:49.909
my family my father and whatnot and so there

01:48:49.909 --> 01:48:53.630
really is never a viable reason which is one

01:48:53.630 --> 01:48:55.050
of the things i hear from people all the time

01:48:55.050 --> 01:48:58.609
that are uneducated about it they'll say firefighter

01:48:58.609 --> 01:49:01.850
so -and -so took his life why well he just got

01:49:01.850 --> 01:49:04.789
divorced and they go no that's not true because

01:49:04.789 --> 01:49:07.029
then everybody that got divorced would kill themselves

01:49:07.029 --> 01:49:09.270
so not everybody that gets divorced takes their

01:49:09.270 --> 01:49:10.770
life not everybody that gets a letter from the

01:49:10.770 --> 01:49:13.199
irs Not everybody gets in trouble with the job.

01:49:13.880 --> 01:49:16.380
My friend, if they said, my other friend that

01:49:16.380 --> 01:49:19.859
put himself in the garage, he had gotten in trouble

01:49:19.859 --> 01:49:21.340
with the fire department for working a second

01:49:21.340 --> 01:49:24.560
job without permission. I talked to him. I said,

01:49:24.600 --> 01:49:26.140
Tony, the worst that's going to be is they're

01:49:26.140 --> 01:49:27.680
going to take your vacation away for one year.

01:49:28.720 --> 01:49:30.939
You know, or you'll get some kind of fine or

01:49:30.939 --> 01:49:34.439
something. And he must have went home and the

01:49:34.439 --> 01:49:36.079
wheels started spinning. There's no way out of

01:49:36.079 --> 01:49:37.979
this. I just got divorced. Of course, now I'm

01:49:37.979 --> 01:49:40.020
going to lose my job. I go, you're not going

01:49:40.020 --> 01:49:42.550
to lose your job. But even if you do, it's not

01:49:42.550 --> 01:49:45.869
worth, you know, he devastated all of us the

01:49:45.869 --> 01:49:47.949
same way. But they don't think about that. It

01:49:47.949 --> 01:49:49.569
just starts, they call it tunnel vision. It starts

01:49:49.569 --> 01:49:51.729
to close in like this. And the only option is

01:49:51.729 --> 01:49:55.170
I've thought about it. Now I'm going to put it

01:49:55.170 --> 01:49:57.250
into action and everybody else is going to just

01:49:57.250 --> 01:49:59.210
have to figure it out because I'll be at peace.

01:50:02.170 --> 01:50:04.550
Yeah. I mean, it's, again, it's that distorted

01:50:04.550 --> 01:50:06.670
thinking, no matter how you frame it, it's, you

01:50:06.670 --> 01:50:09.050
know, it's this breakdown of normal, reasonable

01:50:09.050 --> 01:50:11.270
thinking, you know, because you could, You could

01:50:11.270 --> 01:50:13.729
lose your home. I actually lost my home a few

01:50:13.729 --> 01:50:17.210
years ago after my divorce. And we ended up in

01:50:17.210 --> 01:50:20.529
an apartment for a while. And we downsized everything.

01:50:20.710 --> 01:50:22.050
And you're like, oh, well, we don't need as much

01:50:22.050 --> 01:50:26.449
stuff. And then ultimately, under my wife's credit

01:50:26.449 --> 01:50:29.850
and side, we ended up getting the home that we're

01:50:29.850 --> 01:50:32.029
in now. At the time, you talk about being wracked

01:50:32.029 --> 01:50:34.609
with guilt and shame, losing your home as a father,

01:50:34.689 --> 01:50:37.170
as a husband. But that was a ripple effect of

01:50:37.170 --> 01:50:41.149
a divorce. It is what happens with life. Luckily,

01:50:41.149 --> 01:50:46.189
at that point, my mindset wasn't, you know, debilitated.

01:50:46.430 --> 01:50:49.890
But if I'd been, you know, during my divorce

01:50:49.890 --> 01:50:52.609
when I was also in paramedic school and, you

01:50:52.609 --> 01:50:55.130
know, literally barely sleeping for a whole year,

01:50:55.270 --> 01:50:57.569
would that have been different? I mean, who knows?

01:50:57.649 --> 01:51:00.069
But, you know, this is the thing is why there

01:51:00.069 --> 01:51:04.369
are so many tools that we can apply to to hopefully

01:51:04.369 --> 01:51:07.170
minimize some of these these detrimental elements

01:51:07.170 --> 01:51:09.710
where someone won't make that terminal decision.

01:51:10.730 --> 01:51:12.890
You know, like you said, it is a multifaceted

01:51:12.890 --> 01:51:15.050
approach. But the one the one that I don't hear

01:51:15.050 --> 01:51:17.770
mentioned usually is that burdensome. But of

01:51:17.770 --> 01:51:19.850
course, all these other elements are also pieces

01:51:19.850 --> 01:51:22.310
of the puzzle. So the more we talk about it,

01:51:22.329 --> 01:51:24.010
hopefully the more people listen and go, shit,

01:51:24.109 --> 01:51:25.750
I've been thinking about that. I've been thinking

01:51:25.750 --> 01:51:28.710
like that. You know, my 20 became a 10 recently.

01:51:28.989 --> 01:51:31.109
So I think it's so important to hear, especially

01:51:31.109 --> 01:51:34.050
like yourself, from someone who's been directly

01:51:34.050 --> 01:51:39.670
impacted by this suicide epidemic. Yes. And then

01:51:39.670 --> 01:51:42.470
there's one of the things I've always looked

01:51:42.470 --> 01:51:43.890
for, and you might have experienced it yourself,

01:51:44.010 --> 01:51:48.470
is the humor that goes along with being a firefighter

01:51:48.470 --> 01:51:54.189
is huge. It's huge. They call it gallows humor.

01:51:56.170 --> 01:52:01.069
And one of the big signs I see is when they start

01:52:01.069 --> 01:52:04.800
to lose their sense of humor. Like, you know,

01:52:04.840 --> 01:52:07.220
you know, you get divorced or you get financial

01:52:07.220 --> 01:52:09.560
stuff. And, you know, most of the time, most

01:52:09.560 --> 01:52:11.760
of the family like F the IRS. I don't give a

01:52:11.760 --> 01:52:14.300
damn. Take everything. I don't care. You know,

01:52:14.300 --> 01:52:15.960
oh, my wife's a pain in the ass anyway. I didn't

01:52:15.960 --> 01:52:18.000
care. Probably better off. Let some other guy

01:52:18.000 --> 01:52:20.100
work. You know, but then they start to lose their

01:52:20.100 --> 01:52:21.979
sense of humor and it starts to become the woe

01:52:21.979 --> 01:52:27.079
is me, you know, thing. So and that was I distinctly

01:52:27.079 --> 01:52:29.880
remember saying that to my brother. Because he

01:52:29.880 --> 01:52:32.060
was having trouble with his wife, family issues,

01:52:32.159 --> 01:52:33.960
whatever. And I said, when did you lose your

01:52:33.960 --> 01:52:36.359
firehouse sense of humor? Oh, it's easy for you

01:52:36.359 --> 01:52:39.140
to say. You're not going through marital stuff.

01:52:39.500 --> 01:52:42.300
And I go, what? You and everybody else have,

01:52:42.399 --> 01:52:44.420
what, you're the only person in the world that

01:52:44.420 --> 01:52:46.199
ever had divorced? You're the only person that

01:52:46.199 --> 01:52:50.960
ever, you know. And that's where group therapy

01:52:50.960 --> 01:52:53.079
really helps. Because now you meet other people

01:52:53.079 --> 01:52:54.739
that are going through it. And you go, well,

01:52:54.779 --> 01:52:58.060
it's not so, I'm not alone in this. Other people

01:52:58.060 --> 01:53:01.159
have gone through it. And then you seek advice

01:53:01.159 --> 01:53:02.539
from other people that have gone through it.

01:53:03.840 --> 01:53:05.800
Just like when my brother took his life, I went

01:53:05.800 --> 01:53:08.800
to a support group. And then you say, wow, this

01:53:08.800 --> 01:53:11.399
is a lot of other people going through something

01:53:11.399 --> 01:53:14.319
similar. Might have been their son, their daughter,

01:53:14.380 --> 01:53:15.699
their husband, their wife, their uncle, their

01:53:15.699 --> 01:53:19.579
aunt. But wow, other people. And how did they

01:53:19.579 --> 01:53:25.119
cope with it? And you just find your way. So

01:53:25.119 --> 01:53:30.819
let's fast forward to now. And again, I don't

01:53:30.819 --> 01:53:34.159
want to shamelessly promote a cookbook, but for

01:53:34.159 --> 01:53:37.619
the 20 -year anniversary of 9 -11, plus I wanted

01:53:37.619 --> 01:53:40.720
to put a dedication into my father, who I fought

01:53:40.720 --> 01:53:43.260
physically and mentally about getting on the

01:53:43.260 --> 01:53:46.460
fire department. So I wrote another book for

01:53:46.460 --> 01:53:48.739
the 20 -year anniversary called American Firehouse

01:53:48.739 --> 01:53:53.340
Cuisine. And that was for the 20th anniversary

01:53:53.340 --> 01:53:57.100
of 9 -11. And I put a dedication to my father,

01:53:57.159 --> 01:53:59.659
who I fought violently about getting on the fire

01:53:59.659 --> 01:54:02.640
department. And I came to look at it in a different

01:54:02.640 --> 01:54:07.300
light. He had four kids commuting to the South

01:54:07.300 --> 01:54:11.380
Bronx. And I'll admit in public right now, I

01:54:11.380 --> 01:54:15.340
wasn't really that nice to him, considering what

01:54:15.340 --> 01:54:17.060
he did for a living. And only because I walked

01:54:17.060 --> 01:54:20.880
a mile in his shoes. And I did get to see him

01:54:20.880 --> 01:54:23.710
before he passed away a little bit. and maybe

01:54:23.710 --> 01:54:27.149
mend the fence a little bit and uh i remember

01:54:27.149 --> 01:54:29.649
and part of the reason was like i was single

01:54:29.649 --> 01:54:33.590
the whole time if i had a you know my my mother

01:54:33.590 --> 01:54:36.829
had some alcohol issues and um wound up dying

01:54:36.829 --> 01:54:39.729
tragically in a fire believe it or not in 1981

01:54:39.729 --> 01:54:45.310
um and uh we disconnected from him after that

01:54:45.310 --> 01:54:48.130
and took me a lot of years to really realize

01:54:48.130 --> 01:54:51.170
wow Being a fireman, dealing with the personalities,

01:54:51.449 --> 01:54:55.310
the city, everything. And I was single. I mean,

01:54:55.329 --> 01:54:56.930
he was dealing with it with four kids and an

01:54:56.930 --> 01:54:59.789
alcoholic wife. I couldn't have did it. I don't

01:54:59.789 --> 01:55:02.449
know how he did it. I don't know how he did it.

01:55:02.630 --> 01:55:05.949
So God bless him wherever he is. Rest in peace.

01:55:06.289 --> 01:55:08.090
I'm going to honor him until the day I die. I

01:55:08.090 --> 01:55:10.130
put him in the foreword of the book. So that's

01:55:10.130 --> 01:55:13.569
the only reason I became a fireman and my brother

01:55:13.569 --> 01:55:16.989
became a fireman. And honor to him for being

01:55:16.989 --> 01:55:20.050
in the Navy and also being a veteran. And he's

01:55:20.050 --> 01:55:23.029
the only reason I'm here today and even doing

01:55:23.029 --> 01:55:26.010
this stuff like this. And then I just started

01:55:26.010 --> 01:55:30.569
about a year ago. I built a studio here, an old

01:55:30.569 --> 01:55:33.170
firehouse. In a warehouse, I built what looks.

01:55:33.289 --> 01:55:37.710
And if you go to my website, www .americanfirehousecuisine

01:55:37.710 --> 01:55:40.750
.com, I just started doing a firehouse cooking

01:55:40.750 --> 01:55:45.130
show. on YouTube. So I have the set looks like

01:55:45.130 --> 01:55:47.109
an old New York firehouse. I actually have a

01:55:47.109 --> 01:55:50.029
brass pole and I built the deck above the studio.

01:55:50.069 --> 01:55:51.710
You slide down the pole to start the show. I

01:55:51.710 --> 01:55:53.609
got the best signature entrance of any cooking,

01:55:53.710 --> 01:55:57.649
even though I'm not a lister, I'm an L or a W

01:55:57.649 --> 01:56:01.149
lister. None of the other chefs get to slide

01:56:01.149 --> 01:56:04.189
a pole to start the show. So I'm trying to keep

01:56:04.189 --> 01:56:06.149
the tradition of firehouse cooking and the meal

01:56:06.149 --> 01:56:09.250
together, healthy meal alive by doing the show.

01:56:10.110 --> 01:56:12.210
So it's been a little bit of a challenge to try

01:56:12.210 --> 01:56:14.970
to do all of that. And I'm certainly not a TV

01:56:14.970 --> 01:56:18.850
star or anything. So I'm looking to do that.

01:56:18.930 --> 01:56:20.649
So anybody who's listening, you want to go to

01:56:20.649 --> 01:56:23.369
– and the story of 9 -11 is on my website also.

01:56:24.770 --> 01:56:27.010
But I just did – I did three episodes already.

01:56:27.649 --> 01:56:30.210
And it's a little tricky just talking to a camera.

01:56:30.289 --> 01:56:31.770
I want to start having guests because it's easier

01:56:31.770 --> 01:56:34.090
with the guests. But I have to make sure they

01:56:34.090 --> 01:56:37.220
know how to slide down a pole. At least dead

01:56:37.220 --> 01:56:40.159
guests that never made it. I'll have a big lawsuit

01:56:40.159 --> 01:56:44.640
for twisted ankles and back injuries from sliding

01:56:44.640 --> 01:56:49.359
down the pole. Well, I want to thank you so,

01:56:49.439 --> 01:56:52.079
so much. I mean, this story that we've kind of

01:56:52.079 --> 01:56:54.039
been led through today, you know, the amazing

01:56:54.039 --> 01:56:56.439
work that your father did and this dynamic that

01:56:56.439 --> 01:56:58.640
you touched on in the end, you know, and then

01:56:58.640 --> 01:57:01.199
some of the things that you saw in uniform and

01:57:01.199 --> 01:57:04.590
9 -11 and, you know, now. diving into the mental

01:57:04.590 --> 01:57:07.529
health conversation. I know there's so many people

01:57:07.529 --> 01:57:09.890
that are going to be moved by it. Like I said,

01:57:09.909 --> 01:57:11.569
hopefully some people will even see themselves

01:57:11.569 --> 01:57:13.850
in what we've discussed today and realize that

01:57:13.850 --> 01:57:18.069
maybe they need to find some help. But most importantly,

01:57:18.170 --> 01:57:20.029
thank you for your courageous vulnerability because

01:57:20.029 --> 01:57:22.909
this is something that is so needed at the moment.

01:57:22.970 --> 01:57:25.619
A lot of our generations were. you know, raising

01:57:25.619 --> 01:57:27.579
that kind of, you know, rub some dirt in it,

01:57:27.699 --> 01:57:29.920
you know, terminate a Rambo kind of mentality.

01:57:30.039 --> 01:57:32.699
And that's not the case. You know, we, it was

01:57:32.699 --> 01:57:35.020
compassion and empathy that sent us into uniform.

01:57:35.260 --> 01:57:37.600
And sometimes we forget to show it to ourselves.

01:57:37.760 --> 01:57:40.520
So I want to thank you so, so much for being

01:57:40.520 --> 01:57:43.140
so generous with your time and coming on the

01:57:43.140 --> 01:57:47.060
podcast today. Can I, can I just do a shout out?

01:57:47.560 --> 01:57:51.899
Absolutely. I just want to honor my first fire

01:57:51.899 --> 01:57:55.800
officer in engine 319. who was lieutenant osterman

01:57:55.800 --> 01:57:59.840
fantastic fire officer and he taught me so much

01:57:59.840 --> 01:58:02.460
and it was a pleasure to work with him that's

01:58:02.460 --> 01:58:05.300
one i wanted to put another my father who i just

01:58:05.300 --> 01:58:07.819
honored and i want to put a shout out to my lovely

01:58:07.819 --> 01:58:14.539
niece my jessica my sister donna and her husband

01:58:14.539 --> 01:58:20.159
mike and my two handsome strong nephews nick

01:58:20.159 --> 01:58:23.140
and jake so i just want to put a shout out to

01:58:23.140 --> 01:58:25.619
them and they'll get a big thrill out of being

01:58:25.619 --> 01:58:30.979
mentioned on a podcast. So thank you for that.

01:58:31.020 --> 01:58:33.159
And thank you. This has been fantastic. You're

01:58:33.159 --> 01:58:33.720
a great host.