WEBVTT

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This episode is sponsored by 5 .11, a company

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that I've used for well over a decade and continue

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as well. Their jeans stretch. You can actually

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so I wear a lot of their shorts, which again,

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then moving to the fitness and tactical space,

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I switched to a 5 .11 vest and actually bought

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if I'm going to have a vest, why not have one

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store. And if you want to learn more about 5

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.11, their mission, their products, then listen

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to episode 338 of the Behind the Shield podcast

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with the CEO and founder, Francisco Morales.

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Welcome to episode 562 of Behind the Shield podcast.

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As always, my name is James Gearing, and this

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week it is my absolute honor to welcome on the

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show grappling legend Eric Paulson. So we discuss

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a host of topics from his own journey into the

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martial arts, Jeet Kune Do, training under guru

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Dan Inosanto, working in the stunt profession,

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teaching the tactical community, combat submission

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wrestling, and so much more. Before we get to

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this incredible conversation, as I say every

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week, please just take a moment, go to whichever

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app you listen to this on, subscribe to the show,

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leave feedback, and leave a rating. Every five

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-star rating truly does elevate this podcast,

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therefore making it easier for others to find.

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And this is a free library for you, Planet Earth.

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So all I ask in return is that you help share

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these incredible men and women's stories so I

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can get them to every single person who needs

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to hear them. So with that being said, I introduce

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to you Eric Paulson. Enjoy. Well, Eric, I want

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to start by saying thank you so much for taking

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the time to come on the Behind the Shield podcast

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today. It's my pleasure to be with you. Thank

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you for having me on. Now, where on planet Earth

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are we finding you today? I am in Brea, California,

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which is Orange County, and I'm by Fullerton

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and by Disneyland. I know it well. I was an Anaheim

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firefighter for a few years, so I was right on

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the borders there. Oh, man. I didn't know you

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were a firefighter. That's great. Firefighters,

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that's a great job, but you guys do a great service

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too. I mean, just with all the calls for the

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EMT work and not just fires, but what else do

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you guys do as a firefighter? I always describe

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it as if it doesn't involve arresting you or

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stopping you for speeding, that's pretty much

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what the fire does, the rescue, the EMS, the

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rope rescue. It's a jack -of -all -trades, master

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-of -none kind of profession. I trained the Brea

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Fire Department. They used to come to my gym

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a long time ago, and then I've had firefighters

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that I've trained to help them get through their

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course and stuff. They've trained for six months,

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and then they go run their – what's your training

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called? Um, so we have the, the minimum standards

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usually is that the fire Academy, but then there's

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normally a test. I think it was a biddle was,

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was called when I tested for Anaheim, but there's

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one called the CPAT as well. Yeah. These guys

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always, they're getting prepared or, and I get

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guys also that are, that are training to go into

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the police Academy. Uh, we had a fighter at a

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place I train at and, um, he's. You know, he's

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an amateur fighter. He's had some fights, but

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he's been training a lot. And he said that he

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just, it wasn't really doing it for him. So he

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said, I want to do something that's going to

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give back to the world. And I said, what are

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you thinking? He goes, I'm really thinking about

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going in the military. And I'm like, wow, you

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know, I've never had anyone. I've only had, for

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students, I've only had like probably 12 total.

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of guys that have gone, Hey, you know what? I

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think I'm going to go in the military. And that's

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over the period of a long time. Usually it's

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guys when they, right when they get out of high

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school, they're not sure what they want to do

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if they want to, and they want to get maybe funding

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for college or, or an education. So a lot of

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times guys will go in that. We had one of our

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students, he was a wrestler. He was really great.

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And he went in for four years. He's already out.

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And now he's back on our team again. I can't

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believe four years flew by that fast. It's amazing.

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I have another guy that tried to go in the Marines,

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but he ended up going in the Army, but he had

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back issues and he got an honorable discharge.

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And then I got guys like brothers and things,

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his brothers that are actually in the Guard,

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in the National Guard. I have other people that

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I train that are in the Coast Guard, National

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Guard, Coast Guard. I have guys that I train

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that are actually Navy SEALs. And then I have

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tons of military and police, different military,

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Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines. Not the new one,

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though. What's the new one? Space Force? Yeah,

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I've done that. Cyber grappling. I'm not quite

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sure who those guys are yet. I don't understand

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it either, but I'm sure we'll find out eventually.

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It's good. This kid, he asked me, he said, you

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know, I want to do something better. to help

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the world. And so he said, I'm thinking about

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going in the army. And I said, well, what do

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you want to do? And I said, if you're going to

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go in the army, cause you're, you're a top athlete,

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you should look to the higher ups of it. And

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he said, what do you think? And I said, well,

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my friend's a green beret. I'll put you in touch

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with him. And this guy's highly decorated and

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he was an ATF agent. Let me hook you. So you

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hooked him up. And next thing you know, the guy

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walks in and fatigues. He was in the gym yesterday

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and fatigues. And I said, he goes, yeah, I'm

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starting my basic training. I had to go get and

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they gave me my fatigues and he was already wearing

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them. He was so happy. He's we thought he could

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go to Camp Pendleton because that's right down

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the road. But he's got a I believe he's got to

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go somewhere else for special forces. He's joined

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the SF segment. OK, is he in army, though? Yes,

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Army SF. So I think that's Fort Bragg, North

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Carolina, if I'm not mistaken. Okay. I've got

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two guys that were combat vets, and they were

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both deployed multiple, multiple times, and they're

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both SF guys. And then I had a contract for 10

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years with the Canadian SF, and I trained those

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guys for 10 straight years. And it was funny

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because at first I started teaching grappling.

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And I thought, okay, they want to learn. He goes,

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can you teach me takedowns with one arm? I was

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like, takedowns with one arm? And he goes, yeah,

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because the other arm's either holding a shield

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or my helmet. And we're going in a building,

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and I might have to take someone down, but I

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have a gun in one hand, and I need to takedown

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with the other. So I showed him how to take the

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single legs and double legs with only using one

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arm. It was interesting. That was one thing.

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I started training them and I started rolling

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with them and sparring with them. And it just,

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you know, you could see, I looked at their face

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and they're like, I could tell they wanted more.

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And I go, you look a little disappointed. Is

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everything all right? And he goes, well, you

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have a pro fight team, right? And I go, I sure

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do. And he goes, do you think we could train

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with them? And I said, do you guys want to train

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with them? And yeah, sure enough. They started

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coming in, and that was a big deal. We would

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do five days a week. First thing early in the

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morning from 9 a .m. to 9 to 11, we would do

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technique. We'd drill and do technique, and then

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right after, fight practice started at noon,

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and those guys would go in and spar with Hector

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Lombard, Babalu, Josh Barnett, Cub Swanson. All

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these guys were part of our fight. training,

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James Wilkes. James is from England. He won the

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Ultimate Fighter Show. Danny Suarez, he fought

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in the IFL. Cub Swanson, Jay Martinez, Freddie

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George, Ben Jones, Eric Kiyahi, all these guys

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were all part of the fight team. And they were

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sparring five days a week with these combative

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guys, which were the SF guys. And that contract

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was reoccurring for 10 years. until they lost

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their funding. And then they kind of just like

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split. How did that translate? I mean, I recognize

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a lot of those names, some incredible fighters.

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And actually James was on the show, James Wilkes.

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But, you know, obviously when you think about

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the sport element of MMA versus, you know, an

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environment that you literally may have to kill,

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you know, there's a slight crossover there. How

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did the gym setting translate into the lethal

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application when they were out doing what they

00:11:10.850 --> 00:11:14.639
were paid to do? When it's lethal, there's a

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gun and then there's a knife. And then they have

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the smoke, the flashbangs, the hand grenades,

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whatever they use, the smoke. And then the multitudes

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of different, sometimes you're like a group of

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five, a group of six, a group of three, a group

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of two. Sometimes you're alone when you're clearing

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rooms and stuff. So all the empty ham for MMA

00:11:41.419 --> 00:11:44.899
is perfect for military. It's completely perfect.

00:11:45.220 --> 00:11:48.059
MMA is probably one of the best things you could

00:11:48.059 --> 00:11:51.059
train the military and you could train the police

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and the firefighters. Because what's a real fight?

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A real fight is punching, kicking, clinching,

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takedown, ground and pound, and submission, if

00:12:02.379 --> 00:12:06.700
you could get it. So that's MMA. It's not jump

00:12:06.700 --> 00:12:09.799
on your back, pull guard. Try to do this. Your

00:12:09.799 --> 00:12:13.019
buddies are kicking your head in, you know, and

00:12:13.019 --> 00:12:16.220
you don't force the ground. I mean, if you could

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stay on your feet and finish people, that's just

00:12:18.840 --> 00:12:21.919
as important. When guys attack you, they're not

00:12:21.919 --> 00:12:24.059
going to just run up to you, grab you, body lock

00:12:24.059 --> 00:12:26.240
you, or shoot a double and try to take you down.

00:12:26.340 --> 00:12:29.559
Although that happens, they're probably going

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to be striking at you, throwing things at you.

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And then if they can't hurt you with their hands

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or their feet or their elbows and their head

00:12:36.649 --> 00:12:38.730
buds, they're going to be trying to clinch and

00:12:38.730 --> 00:12:41.789
get you to the floor. Of course. So that's why

00:12:41.789 --> 00:12:46.169
the clinch is so important. We train a ton of

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wrestling, weapon retention and wrestling. Wrestling

00:12:49.370 --> 00:12:53.049
is the biggest factor that I think it should

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be compulsory for all teachers to learn how to

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wrestle. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the number

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of fights that break out in the classroom. I

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was in Australia, in Brisbane, and on the news

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for TV, they said they're making it compulsory

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for all teachers to learn how to wrestle. You

00:13:12.740 --> 00:13:15.500
know why? Because of the disobedient kids today.

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You know, like, it's so weird. The defiance of

00:13:20.659 --> 00:13:24.799
authority is, you know, I watch people getting

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arrested by the police. They sit and question

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everything about the police. They pull out their

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cameras. They don't listen to one command. And

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then they, you know, they act, you know, there

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are bad police, but there are good police, a

00:13:41.429 --> 00:13:45.210
lot of them. And, you know, that's a tough job.

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I wouldn't want to be a police officer today.

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That's a tough job. I mean, all my friends, I

00:13:51.110 --> 00:13:53.110
have a lot of friends in Seattle because I trained

00:13:53.110 --> 00:13:55.769
the Washington State Police. And I put a tackle

00:13:55.769 --> 00:13:59.269
defense program together for them. And they were

00:13:59.269 --> 00:14:01.190
the number one police force in America that were

00:14:01.190 --> 00:14:03.409
getting taken down and shot by their own weapons.

00:14:03.649 --> 00:14:07.769
Really? We attributed it to two things. The inmates

00:14:07.769 --> 00:14:11.429
were allowed to watch the UFC. They also were

00:14:11.429 --> 00:14:13.669
allowed to lift weights regularly. So they removed

00:14:13.669 --> 00:14:17.210
the weights and they removed the UFC. We put

00:14:17.210 --> 00:14:19.570
a tackle defense program together for the Washington

00:14:19.570 --> 00:14:22.750
State Police and they implement and use it regularly

00:14:22.750 --> 00:14:27.360
to Prevent the takedown. And the biggest question

00:14:27.360 --> 00:14:29.700
is like, how often are you guys in a situation

00:14:29.700 --> 00:14:33.159
when there's a lethal weapon involved? And these

00:14:33.159 --> 00:14:37.320
guys are like, oh. No, the answer is every time

00:14:37.320 --> 00:14:39.440
because it's yours. Yeah, it's around your waist.

00:14:40.120 --> 00:14:42.019
How'd you get taken down and shot with their

00:14:42.019 --> 00:14:46.419
own gun? You know, so that was a strategy a lot

00:14:46.419 --> 00:14:50.480
of guys were using. They would kind of get the

00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:53.730
cop to chase them. And then the officer would

00:14:53.730 --> 00:14:55.389
go after them and boom, and they'd drop and shoot

00:14:55.389 --> 00:14:57.309
and hit a double. And these guys didn't even

00:14:57.309 --> 00:15:00.070
know how to sprawl. They had no defense against

00:15:00.070 --> 00:15:03.110
a double -legged tackle. Yeah, well, you see

00:15:03.110 --> 00:15:05.330
a lot of the video footage. I mean, there's some

00:15:05.330 --> 00:15:08.370
incredible police officers out there that are

00:15:08.370 --> 00:15:11.350
physically fit, strong, have great grappling

00:15:11.350 --> 00:15:14.009
skills, and they walk the walk. But sadly, there

00:15:14.009 --> 00:15:16.990
are also a lot of examples where you have someone

00:15:16.990 --> 00:15:19.990
either not trained and or deconditioned where...

00:15:20.559 --> 00:15:23.940
Either, sadly, they're victimized or even murdered,

00:15:24.059 --> 00:15:27.240
and or they go to the only option they know,

00:15:27.340 --> 00:15:29.080
which is lethal force, because they don't have

00:15:29.080 --> 00:15:32.320
all those other options available to them. I

00:15:32.320 --> 00:15:36.360
believe what we teach is specifically perfect

00:15:36.360 --> 00:15:43.179
for – I've got a SWAT instructor. He's a DT.

00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:49.620
I've had DTs in Florida, Arkansas, Oklahoma.

00:15:50.559 --> 00:15:54.340
all over the place, Florida, all over in Quantico.

00:15:54.620 --> 00:15:58.159
I went to Quantico. I was really amazed at Quantico

00:15:58.159 --> 00:16:03.539
because the federal agents were all physically

00:16:03.539 --> 00:16:07.299
fit. They were all doing physical activities

00:16:07.299 --> 00:16:11.240
aside from the classroom. And it was funny because

00:16:11.240 --> 00:16:15.059
I walked in the FBI academy on their side and

00:16:15.059 --> 00:16:17.519
I looked against the wall and they had my bag.

00:16:17.679 --> 00:16:19.460
It's called a motion master. It's the ground

00:16:19.460 --> 00:16:23.009
bag. It's for transitions, right? And it's a

00:16:23.009 --> 00:16:25.289
ground and pound bag. It's called the Motion

00:16:25.289 --> 00:16:29.009
Master. Revgear sells it. So I created this bag

00:16:29.009 --> 00:16:30.809
after I got done fighting because someone said,

00:16:30.889 --> 00:16:32.669
what's your hardest part of your workout? And

00:16:32.669 --> 00:16:36.710
I said, the ground bag. You're tired. You just

00:16:36.710 --> 00:16:38.750
got done sparring a bunch of rounds. And now

00:16:38.750 --> 00:16:40.490
you're on that ground bag for 10 minutes and

00:16:40.490 --> 00:16:42.889
it kicks your butt because it's all based on

00:16:42.889 --> 00:16:45.769
transitions and hitting. And I watched, I did

00:16:45.769 --> 00:16:47.950
it. I created a bunch of drills and I put them

00:16:47.950 --> 00:16:51.789
on a seminar. And I had house moms, I had monsters

00:16:51.789 --> 00:16:54.370
coming out of house moms. They're like hitting

00:16:54.370 --> 00:16:56.250
the bag as hard as they can. And they're like,

00:16:56.250 --> 00:16:59.429
and they're enraged. And I think they're imagining

00:16:59.429 --> 00:17:04.869
their husband's face. But I watched, I watched

00:17:04.869 --> 00:17:06.829
all this rage come out of these people. I go,

00:17:06.849 --> 00:17:09.609
the ground and pound bag is the best bag for

00:17:09.609 --> 00:17:11.609
just a normal person. If you learn how to use

00:17:11.609 --> 00:17:14.500
it. And that's why I created the bag. And it

00:17:14.500 --> 00:17:16.200
was funny because it was based on transitions.

00:17:16.759 --> 00:17:19.720
So I put a bag, one of my bags at Higginmachado

00:17:19.720 --> 00:17:23.059
school and I walked in and the bag was in the

00:17:23.059 --> 00:17:25.839
corner and this guy pulled it out and I go, Hey,

00:17:25.900 --> 00:17:29.559
that's a cool bag. And this guy goes, yeah, the

00:17:29.559 --> 00:17:32.039
problem with that bag is there's no arms on it.

00:17:32.079 --> 00:17:34.460
So you can't really work your submissions and

00:17:34.460 --> 00:17:36.119
your arm bars. They go, but that's not what that

00:17:36.119 --> 00:17:39.720
bag is for. And he goes, what do you mean? And

00:17:39.720 --> 00:17:42.660
I said, that bag is used for positioning, transitions,

00:17:42.759 --> 00:17:45.940
and movement. And if you're going to fight, it's

00:17:45.940 --> 00:17:48.019
going to teach you how to hit the bag ground

00:17:48.019 --> 00:17:50.339
and pound. And the guy goes, what do you mean

00:17:50.339 --> 00:17:52.579
transitions and movement and holds? And I said,

00:17:52.619 --> 00:17:56.599
well, there's basically on the average about

00:17:56.599 --> 00:18:00.500
10 different positions that you address. You

00:18:00.500 --> 00:18:02.700
either go around the bag, you go knee on belly,

00:18:02.859 --> 00:18:06.500
spinning. pop -ups, or you go low and you go

00:18:06.500 --> 00:18:09.039
side control, Kazuri Keiza, north and south,

00:18:09.220 --> 00:18:13.240
Kazuri Keiza, backspin, pass the guard. You can

00:18:13.240 --> 00:18:15.299
use north and south, guard pass. So the whole

00:18:15.299 --> 00:18:18.539
thing, it's got two heads, and then it's got

00:18:18.539 --> 00:18:21.579
two little nubs on both sides. So it's based

00:18:21.579 --> 00:18:24.519
on the infinity. The infinity emblem was the

00:18:24.519 --> 00:18:26.759
whole creation of the bag. It was constant motion,

00:18:27.099 --> 00:18:30.039
nonstop movement. You beat one head in, and then

00:18:30.039 --> 00:18:31.519
you go to the other head, and you beat it, and

00:18:31.519 --> 00:18:36.480
it's all based on movement. And Chad, thanks

00:18:36.480 --> 00:18:40.119
to Chad Stahelski, Chad's the one that put me

00:18:40.119 --> 00:18:43.700
on that bag. We had a heavy bag at the gym, and

00:18:43.700 --> 00:18:45.940
we used to tape the end up so we wouldn't punch

00:18:45.940 --> 00:18:50.720
the metal from the hangers. And he would tape

00:18:50.720 --> 00:18:52.960
them up, and then I'd do my transition on that

00:18:52.960 --> 00:18:55.380
bag. And I said, you know, this bag would be

00:18:55.380 --> 00:18:57.579
so much better if it was flatter and contoured

00:18:57.579 --> 00:19:01.170
like a human body. And he goes, what are you

00:19:01.170 --> 00:19:02.930
saying? And I go, well, he goes, it's good for

00:19:02.930 --> 00:19:04.529
moving. I go, but it's not realistic because

00:19:04.529 --> 00:19:06.869
it's round and you fall off it and it's too high.

00:19:08.009 --> 00:19:11.789
And all of a sudden, when I got done fighting,

00:19:11.930 --> 00:19:16.529
the first thing I did is I went to, I called

00:19:16.529 --> 00:19:19.970
Jeff Amata. You know, Jeff? He actually just

00:19:19.970 --> 00:19:21.589
worked with the stunt team that I work with.

00:19:21.650 --> 00:19:24.670
So I know of him. Yes, definitely. I called Jeff

00:19:24.670 --> 00:19:26.890
and I said, hey, do you have a company that makes

00:19:26.890 --> 00:19:31.200
any Kevlar products? And he said, Kevlar. He

00:19:31.200 --> 00:19:33.539
goes, yeah. He goes, what are you making? And

00:19:33.539 --> 00:19:36.559
I go, I want to make a bag, but I want to make

00:19:36.559 --> 00:19:41.380
it out of Cordura or Kevlar. So it doesn't rip.

00:19:41.779 --> 00:19:43.420
And he goes, well, let me introduce you to this

00:19:43.420 --> 00:19:46.440
lady. So I went to this lady and she made me,

00:19:46.519 --> 00:19:52.000
I drew out a bag, what I wanted. And there wasn't

00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:54.220
even a name for it yet. And then all of a sudden

00:19:54.220 --> 00:20:00.730
I laid on the bag. She actually created the bag,

00:20:00.809 --> 00:20:04.069
but it was flat, and there wasn't space to get

00:20:04.069 --> 00:20:07.210
under the nubs. That's where your legs and your

00:20:07.210 --> 00:20:11.150
arms go. And so we had to revise it. But the

00:20:11.150 --> 00:20:13.769
first bag was 100 pounds. It was super heavy.

00:20:14.450 --> 00:20:16.490
And I said, you know, this is going to be a hard

00:20:16.490 --> 00:20:20.410
one to move and to travel with. So the prototype

00:20:20.410 --> 00:20:22.809
I gave to Sifu Larry Hartzell, and he kept it

00:20:22.809 --> 00:20:25.170
in his garage, and he used to beat that thing

00:20:25.170 --> 00:20:27.450
up. And then we had one at the Inosano Academy.

00:20:28.279 --> 00:20:30.519
And I think the prototype is still at the Academy.

00:20:31.279 --> 00:20:36.720
It's a gray, flat Cordura bag that Jeff hooked

00:20:36.720 --> 00:20:40.400
me up with his lady. She was a lady that made

00:20:40.400 --> 00:20:43.660
those, you know, those blades that you go like

00:20:43.660 --> 00:20:48.460
this and they go. Oh, yes. Yes, I do. Anyway,

00:20:48.539 --> 00:20:53.059
she was manufacturing those, but she made a ton

00:20:53.059 --> 00:20:55.819
of stuff for the stunt guys. All the stunt guys

00:20:55.819 --> 00:20:58.789
used to go to her to get their stuff made. But

00:20:58.789 --> 00:21:00.789
she made the bag. I created the bag. And all

00:21:00.789 --> 00:21:04.549
of a sudden, this bag that I created was the

00:21:04.549 --> 00:21:08.130
hardest work. It's a 10 minute workout. So this

00:21:08.130 --> 00:21:11.410
guy, he used to watch my videos and he calls

00:21:11.410 --> 00:21:12.890
me and goes, hey, I want to meet with you. I

00:21:12.890 --> 00:21:15.349
like your stuff. And he goes, I want to get one

00:21:15.349 --> 00:21:18.549
of those bags from you. So I gave him a bag or

00:21:18.549 --> 00:21:20.509
he bought a bag and he started using it. He goes,

00:21:20.549 --> 00:21:22.250
this thing's great. He goes, I want to get one

00:21:22.250 --> 00:21:25.049
of these for all my friends when we travel. And

00:21:25.049 --> 00:21:29.140
I was like, OK, so I made the bag. 60, I think

00:21:29.140 --> 00:21:32.779
60 pounds. And so he would buy a bag for all

00:21:32.779 --> 00:21:35.220
of his friends when he traveled because he was

00:21:35.220 --> 00:21:39.480
doing security. And I was like, what do you do?

00:21:39.559 --> 00:21:42.680
And he goes, well, I do security for my sister.

00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:45.380
And he goes, hey, let's meet. So I met him for

00:21:45.380 --> 00:21:47.200
dinner and we went out in Hollywood and I met

00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:50.180
him and we're just hanging out. And he said,

00:21:50.640 --> 00:21:53.160
yeah, I bought your bag for all my friends and

00:21:53.160 --> 00:21:55.119
we carry it with when we're on tour. And I go,

00:21:55.160 --> 00:21:57.450
what do you mean on tour? He goes, well, I do

00:21:57.450 --> 00:22:00.970
security for my sister. And I go, who's your

00:22:00.970 --> 00:22:05.349
sister? And he goes, well, you know what my last

00:22:05.349 --> 00:22:10.390
name is. And I go, um, Carrie. And he goes, yeah.

00:22:10.470 --> 00:22:13.710
And he goes, my sister's Mariah. And I had no

00:22:13.710 --> 00:22:16.170
idea. It was Mariah Carey's brother. His name's

00:22:16.170 --> 00:22:18.789
Morgan Carey. And anyways, he bought the, he

00:22:18.789 --> 00:22:21.369
uses that bag all the time for his friends. Love

00:22:21.369 --> 00:22:24.230
the bag. So next thing you know, I go to the

00:22:24.230 --> 00:22:28.329
FBI Academy and here, They have 30 of my bags

00:22:28.329 --> 00:22:31.970
stacked up against the wall. And I was like,

00:22:32.029 --> 00:22:37.430
they got 30 of my bags? So the head DT at the

00:22:37.430 --> 00:22:39.690
FBI at Quantico comes out and he goes, hello,

00:22:39.789 --> 00:22:43.490
Mr. Paulson. And I go, oh, you guys have my bag?

00:22:43.609 --> 00:22:46.069
He goes, yeah. He goes, he goes, that's how I

00:22:46.069 --> 00:22:48.250
know your name because I watch all your stuff,

00:22:48.309 --> 00:22:50.829
all your videos you put out. And I saw that bag

00:22:50.829 --> 00:22:53.509
and that bag is perfect for police and military

00:22:53.509 --> 00:22:56.049
because it teaches you how to transition and

00:22:56.049 --> 00:22:59.250
move. And it's great for cuffing. And that was

00:22:59.250 --> 00:23:01.829
where I was really taken off like a surprise.

00:23:01.910 --> 00:23:05.970
But I was happy to know that the military and

00:23:05.970 --> 00:23:09.089
the police, I love to train them the most because.

00:23:10.089 --> 00:23:12.710
They're out in the street. I mean, they need

00:23:12.710 --> 00:23:15.470
what we do to defend themselves every day. I

00:23:15.470 --> 00:23:20.750
think MMA, catch wrestling, jujitsu, and wrestling

00:23:20.750 --> 00:23:24.690
is extremely important for those guys. You know,

00:23:24.789 --> 00:23:30.869
the wrestling is a big factor. Absolutely. And

00:23:30.869 --> 00:23:34.450
then the jujitsu for defense, for positional

00:23:34.450 --> 00:23:38.380
defense, how to get out of stuff. And then I

00:23:38.380 --> 00:23:41.940
like the cat wrestling aspect because it's super

00:23:41.940 --> 00:23:45.140
aggressive for attacking. But, you know, a lot

00:23:45.140 --> 00:23:47.880
of jujitsu guys attack too, but that's not particularly

00:23:47.880 --> 00:23:50.960
the style of jujitsu. The mentality, let's talk

00:23:50.960 --> 00:23:54.299
about the mentality. The mentality is let them

00:23:54.299 --> 00:23:57.720
make a mistake and then capitalize on their mistake

00:23:57.720 --> 00:24:00.480
and take your time. Well, you don't have time.

00:24:01.160 --> 00:24:04.619
A guy, you know, you've got to defend your life

00:24:04.619 --> 00:24:07.750
or fight. The first thing you do, you're not

00:24:07.750 --> 00:24:10.529
going to defend. You're going to attack. When

00:24:10.529 --> 00:24:14.289
you train a guy with a gun to go to battle, you

00:24:14.289 --> 00:24:16.069
don't teach him how to dodge bullets. You teach

00:24:16.069 --> 00:24:19.509
him how to shoot. So the same idea that I think

00:24:19.509 --> 00:24:24.369
for the police and military is not just the defensive

00:24:24.369 --> 00:24:29.529
transitions, but also teach them how to attack.

00:24:30.390 --> 00:24:33.380
Teach them all the chokes. Teach them the face

00:24:33.380 --> 00:24:35.400
locks, the wrist locks, teach them the ankle

00:24:35.400 --> 00:24:38.299
locks, the toe holds, the knee bars, all the

00:24:38.299 --> 00:24:42.720
bent arm locks, arm bars, stuff like that. Teach

00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:44.940
them all this stuff, even all the dirty stuff,

00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:49.119
all the finger locking, all the biting, because

00:24:49.119 --> 00:24:51.339
you're going to use it. Absolutely. Well, you

00:24:51.339 --> 00:24:53.039
want compliance too. I think that's the thing

00:24:53.039 --> 00:24:54.599
that a lot of people don't understand. And I

00:24:54.599 --> 00:24:56.259
want to get to your martial arts journey in a

00:24:56.259 --> 00:24:59.160
moment because it's incredible. But, you know,

00:24:59.160 --> 00:25:02.579
I had my version of it from, karate to taekwondo

00:25:02.579 --> 00:25:04.799
to boxing to muay thai to jiu -jitsu and each

00:25:04.799 --> 00:25:07.059
time being humbled and you know back to square

00:25:07.059 --> 00:25:12.539
one um but when you understand that a law enforcement

00:25:12.539 --> 00:25:15.480
officer isn't you know trying to get someone

00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:17.700
to tap trying to knock someone out but they've

00:25:17.700 --> 00:25:19.119
got to get them in a position where they then

00:25:19.119 --> 00:25:23.450
got to apply handcuffs I mean, that blows my

00:25:23.450 --> 00:25:26.549
mind how that's even possible. So the compliance

00:25:26.549 --> 00:25:28.950
element, I think, is incredible. If you can hurt

00:25:28.950 --> 00:25:30.849
someone to the point where they allow you to

00:25:30.849 --> 00:25:34.130
put those on, the rule book has to go out the

00:25:34.130 --> 00:25:36.809
window a little bit because you're asking them

00:25:36.809 --> 00:25:40.529
to do something that's so, so hard to do. Well,

00:25:40.630 --> 00:25:43.690
that's why I think some of the Aikido and Aiki

00:25:43.690 --> 00:25:46.450
Jiu -Jitsu works really well because you have

00:25:46.450 --> 00:25:49.630
to teach them how to use a wrist lock or a finger

00:25:49.630 --> 00:25:52.740
lock. to put them down. But a lot of times they

00:25:52.740 --> 00:25:56.079
use their commands, right? Face down, face down,

00:25:56.160 --> 00:25:58.400
or yeah, face down, hands behind your back, cross

00:25:58.400 --> 00:26:01.299
your feet, stuff like that. Sit on your butt,

00:26:01.380 --> 00:26:03.640
sit on your butt, put your hands behind your

00:26:03.640 --> 00:26:07.180
back, cross your feet. So that's the compliant

00:26:07.180 --> 00:26:10.279
part. And then you're dealing with someone that

00:26:10.279 --> 00:26:14.490
says, no, I don't want to. I trained in the Washington,

00:26:14.890 --> 00:26:18.150
no, the Wyoming police, yeah, the police department.

00:26:18.230 --> 00:26:22.329
I went out there for a weekend seminar and eight

00:26:22.329 --> 00:26:25.589
guys show up and they all have their fatigues

00:26:25.589 --> 00:26:28.529
and their combat boots and they have a red belt

00:26:28.529 --> 00:26:33.970
on with their gun and their taser. And I said,

00:26:34.009 --> 00:26:38.339
you guys, can we lose the belt? you guys have

00:26:38.339 --> 00:26:40.759
belts on. Can you lose your belt? Because the

00:26:40.759 --> 00:26:43.099
belt buckle is going to kind of rip you. And

00:26:43.099 --> 00:26:45.799
can you guys take your shoes off your boots off?

00:26:46.700 --> 00:26:48.759
And they go, well, this is, this is what we're

00:26:48.759 --> 00:26:51.619
in every day. And I said, if you really want

00:26:51.619 --> 00:26:54.619
to train what we, what we need to train, you

00:26:54.619 --> 00:26:57.299
should take your boots off. And they said, no,

00:26:57.299 --> 00:26:58.700
no, we're going to train in what we normally

00:26:58.700 --> 00:27:01.960
train in. And I go, okay. So by the end of the

00:27:01.960 --> 00:27:06.480
day, they all had scuffs, Knicks. They had abrasions

00:27:06.480 --> 00:27:08.799
all over their face, all over their body, all

00:27:08.799 --> 00:27:11.740
their elbows. So I get a call from their commanding

00:27:11.740 --> 00:27:16.000
officer, and he says, hey, Eric, whatever you

00:27:16.000 --> 00:27:18.140
did today, that's not going to work. It's not

00:27:18.140 --> 00:27:21.819
going to cut it. I've got seven shifts to be

00:27:21.819 --> 00:27:25.940
covered, and I have eight guys. He goes, I got

00:27:25.940 --> 00:27:28.920
one guy out. These guys got to sometimes, there's

00:27:28.920 --> 00:27:30.599
no one to relieve them, so these guys are going

00:27:30.599 --> 00:27:33.579
to be pulling doubles. And I said, well, I asked

00:27:33.579 --> 00:27:35.799
that they would please take off their belts and

00:27:35.799 --> 00:27:40.559
their gun, their red belts, their guns. I asked

00:27:40.559 --> 00:27:42.799
that they remove their belt buckles. I asked

00:27:42.799 --> 00:27:46.039
that they remove their boots and any knives or

00:27:46.039 --> 00:27:48.299
anything on their hips. Just just take them off

00:27:48.299 --> 00:27:51.160
for training. Just so we would. It's called understood.

00:27:51.839 --> 00:27:53.980
You understand that someone's got a gun. You

00:27:53.980 --> 00:27:56.460
understand they've got a knife. But in order

00:27:56.460 --> 00:28:00.140
to train it realistically. Without getting hurt,

00:28:00.339 --> 00:28:02.819
you got to, I mean, I would never grapple with

00:28:02.819 --> 00:28:06.160
a knife on my hip. But realistically, of course,

00:28:06.259 --> 00:28:08.200
of course, you're going to be in that situation.

00:28:08.960 --> 00:28:11.759
But what happens a lot of times is these guys

00:28:11.759 --> 00:28:14.299
are rolling hard and there's a knife and all

00:28:14.299 --> 00:28:17.160
of a sudden it gouges or cuts you or these guys

00:28:17.160 --> 00:28:20.200
are getting just completely beat up from the

00:28:20.200 --> 00:28:22.619
boots. We're going across each other's face.

00:28:22.900 --> 00:28:26.930
They're stepping on each other's fingers. It

00:28:26.930 --> 00:28:31.210
was kind of crazy. So I think it's kind of strange

00:28:31.210 --> 00:28:35.410
like that. When people, they need to learn that.

00:28:35.430 --> 00:28:37.049
But the whole thing was just trying to cuff.

00:28:37.230 --> 00:28:41.990
So what I was leading up to was in Wyoming, the

00:28:41.990 --> 00:28:43.410
whole thing, they said, we want to show you our

00:28:43.410 --> 00:28:45.609
cuffing. And I said, okay, let's see it because

00:28:45.609 --> 00:28:47.069
I want to see what you guys do. And they said,

00:28:47.150 --> 00:28:49.829
here's one, here's two, here's three, here's

00:28:49.829 --> 00:28:54.799
four. So number one. As the guy comes up, he

00:28:54.799 --> 00:28:57.920
wrist locks him, controls the elbow, puts a hand

00:28:57.920 --> 00:29:01.400
behind the back, puts the hands together, commands

00:29:01.400 --> 00:29:04.619
the hands together, controlling the back of the

00:29:04.619 --> 00:29:07.500
belt, crosses the arms, and then he cuffs him.

00:29:08.380 --> 00:29:11.059
Number two is we had one guy come into the hand

00:29:11.059 --> 00:29:12.799
and then to the elbow, and the other guy hit

00:29:12.799 --> 00:29:15.839
a double leg, double leg tackle from the side.

00:29:15.940 --> 00:29:18.740
And then we turned him face up, and then you

00:29:18.740 --> 00:29:20.700
cross their feet and spin them, and then you

00:29:20.700 --> 00:29:24.860
hog tie their feet, and then you cuff them. Three.

00:29:24.860 --> 00:29:26.660
I said, what do you guys do for three? And they

00:29:26.660 --> 00:29:29.319
go, oh, for three, you got two guys entering

00:29:29.319 --> 00:29:31.480
from the front and the third guy goes behind

00:29:31.480 --> 00:29:33.319
you and gets on his hands and knees. And then

00:29:33.319 --> 00:29:36.180
they just push you over the, just like in elementary

00:29:36.180 --> 00:29:39.279
school. I said, you guys actually use that? And

00:29:39.279 --> 00:29:42.019
they go, yeah, it works well. It's like, wow.

00:29:42.299 --> 00:29:44.759
I mean, that's funny. And then the last one is

00:29:44.759 --> 00:29:47.400
the swarm technique. Have you seen that one?

00:29:47.819 --> 00:29:49.619
It sounds like everyone just runs at them at

00:29:49.619 --> 00:29:52.109
the same time. Yeah, they all surround you and

00:29:52.109 --> 00:29:54.170
they go, ready, go. And then they just all pounce

00:29:54.170 --> 00:29:56.890
on you. And that's number four. And I said, you

00:29:56.890 --> 00:29:58.829
know, the swarm technique is good. I go, but

00:29:58.829 --> 00:30:02.569
if the guy knows how to box a little bit, you

00:30:02.569 --> 00:30:04.089
guys are going to have a hard time with what

00:30:04.089 --> 00:30:06.130
you're doing. So they said, well, what do you

00:30:06.130 --> 00:30:12.529
mean? So I wasn't the villain. I put boxing gloves

00:30:12.529 --> 00:30:16.170
on one of the officers. And I go, here's all

00:30:16.170 --> 00:30:17.470
you're going to do. They're going to come and

00:30:17.470 --> 00:30:19.430
swarm you and arrest you. All I want you to do

00:30:19.430 --> 00:30:24.670
is back up and throw uppercuts. Ready, go. And

00:30:24.670 --> 00:30:28.349
then they came in and he was like this and he

00:30:28.349 --> 00:30:31.009
puts his hands up. They go, go. And they all

00:30:31.009 --> 00:30:34.250
try to grab him. He was uppercutting everybody.

00:30:35.190 --> 00:30:37.450
Everyone comes out and they got bloody noses.

00:30:37.450 --> 00:30:40.089
And I said, see, that's just the problem. If

00:30:40.089 --> 00:30:42.589
someone knows how to fight a little bit, that's

00:30:42.589 --> 00:30:45.470
not a good thing. You got four on one. You guys,

00:30:45.569 --> 00:30:50.690
three guys have bloody noses. So they had to

00:30:50.690 --> 00:30:52.450
change their cuffing. So I changed the cuffing

00:30:52.450 --> 00:30:55.829
a little bit for that. So that was one thing.

00:30:55.869 --> 00:30:58.190
You're right. The cuffing or the compliancy is

00:30:58.190 --> 00:31:02.130
the big factor there. Well, so speaking of, you

00:31:02.130 --> 00:31:03.809
know, all the different elements of martial arts

00:31:03.809 --> 00:31:07.769
you already discussed, walk me through your journey

00:31:07.769 --> 00:31:09.869
from your first ever class and whichever discipline

00:31:09.869 --> 00:31:13.349
that was. all the way through to the Jeet Kune

00:31:13.349 --> 00:31:16.549
Do, Danny Nosanto, that kind of era that brought

00:31:16.549 --> 00:31:22.289
a lot of those arts together. When I was young,

00:31:23.509 --> 00:31:26.390
I played baseball, football, and hockey. I'm

00:31:26.390 --> 00:31:29.269
from Minnesota. It's just three things you normally

00:31:29.269 --> 00:31:33.289
do. So, you know, we used to go out and ride

00:31:33.289 --> 00:31:36.390
our bikes, go fishing. We'd go to the dam and

00:31:36.390 --> 00:31:38.950
go fishing. I mean, we used to get up early,

00:31:39.109 --> 00:31:41.150
take off all day, and then come back late at

00:31:41.150 --> 00:31:43.789
night. And it was no big deal. Your parents never

00:31:43.789 --> 00:31:47.289
– no phones, no pagers, no nothing. Parents never

00:31:47.289 --> 00:31:51.089
even knew where you were. We were doing death

00:31:51.089 --> 00:31:55.769
-defying feats sometimes at the dam on the river,

00:31:55.890 --> 00:31:59.710
jumping in the water in the rapids and all that.

00:31:59.829 --> 00:32:03.700
I mean – Being a daredevil, we always dared each

00:32:03.700 --> 00:32:07.140
other when we were little kids. So playing sports

00:32:07.140 --> 00:32:11.339
was natural and normal and competitively. So

00:32:11.339 --> 00:32:17.660
baseball, hockey, and football. And I was playing

00:32:17.660 --> 00:32:20.400
hockey one year, and this one year I was on this

00:32:20.400 --> 00:32:23.200
team, and I didn't really get to – sometimes

00:32:23.200 --> 00:32:26.039
I didn't get to start. And I'm going to blame

00:32:26.039 --> 00:32:30.700
it on my skates. A lot of kids had newer skates

00:32:30.700 --> 00:32:32.940
and I got a pair of used skates when I was little

00:32:32.940 --> 00:32:36.460
and they weren't very the ankles weren't very

00:32:36.460 --> 00:32:38.740
supportive. And I guess I must have had weak

00:32:38.740 --> 00:32:44.079
ankles also. But next thing you know, I was kind

00:32:44.079 --> 00:32:47.039
of like trying to skate on these crummy skates

00:32:47.039 --> 00:32:51.599
and all these guys are going flying by me. And

00:32:51.599 --> 00:32:55.960
next thing you know, so I didn't get to play.

00:32:56.059 --> 00:33:01.079
So next thing. What I did, we would play a game

00:33:01.079 --> 00:33:03.259
and then we would lose. And I go, well, they

00:33:03.259 --> 00:33:07.859
go, oh, you guys suck today. You guys all lost.

00:33:09.059 --> 00:33:11.240
You guys are a bunch of losers because you guys,

00:33:11.259 --> 00:33:14.240
you guys, we need to change our practice and

00:33:14.240 --> 00:33:16.579
we need to change that. So the guy kept saying,

00:33:16.700 --> 00:33:19.119
hey, you're a loser. And I was like, well, how

00:33:19.119 --> 00:33:21.900
am I a loser? I didn't even get to play. And

00:33:21.900 --> 00:33:24.339
this kid's like, you're a loser because you're

00:33:24.339 --> 00:33:28.049
a loser. And I was just like. You know, I'm on

00:33:28.049 --> 00:33:31.430
a team where I get to play a little bit, but

00:33:31.430 --> 00:33:36.569
my dad was more into it than I was. So I ended

00:33:36.569 --> 00:33:41.690
up, I remember I was halfway through the season,

00:33:41.750 --> 00:33:44.730
and I said, you know, I'm not really liking it.

00:33:44.809 --> 00:33:47.509
Maybe I didn't get along with my coach so well,

00:33:47.609 --> 00:33:50.529
or maybe I didn't get to play that much. I don't

00:33:50.529 --> 00:33:53.529
know. But next thing you know, I'm in fourth

00:33:53.529 --> 00:33:57.890
grade. And my mom said, I said, hey, hey, dad,

00:33:57.910 --> 00:33:59.990
guess what? He goes, well, I go, I think I'm

00:33:59.990 --> 00:34:01.869
going to quit hockey. I don't think I want to

00:34:01.869 --> 00:34:04.970
play hockey anymore. And he's like, but you're

00:34:04.970 --> 00:34:07.670
from Minnesota. I mean, we grow up playing hockey.

00:34:07.789 --> 00:34:09.570
We go to all the hockey games. Yeah, of course

00:34:09.570 --> 00:34:11.889
you're going to play hockey. And I go, you know

00:34:11.889 --> 00:34:14.449
what? And I ended up fighting more than I played

00:34:14.449 --> 00:34:16.730
hockey. I always went after the guy and not the

00:34:16.730 --> 00:34:20.889
puck. And I didn't even know that this is cross

00:34:20.889 --> 00:34:24.210
-checking with the stick. I used to check people

00:34:24.210 --> 00:34:26.909
over the boards all the time, and I would end

00:34:26.909 --> 00:34:28.789
up in the penalty box regularly. And they go,

00:34:28.889 --> 00:34:30.570
you know what? You're a goon. And I didn't even

00:34:30.570 --> 00:34:33.469
know what a goon was. A guy that beats everyone

00:34:33.469 --> 00:34:37.150
up. But anyways, I just said, I don't want to

00:34:37.150 --> 00:34:43.210
do it. My mom said, hey, at your elementary school,

00:34:43.309 --> 00:34:46.469
there's a class you could take if you're interested.

00:34:46.989 --> 00:34:49.469
It's a winter sport. It's for winter sports.

00:34:50.349 --> 00:34:55.030
And it's judo. Why are you interested? I go,

00:34:55.070 --> 00:34:56.969
mom, I'm already, you know, I play all these

00:34:56.969 --> 00:34:58.769
other sports. I don't think I need another sport.

00:34:58.889 --> 00:35:01.789
And she goes, I'll just go try it out. So I went

00:35:01.789 --> 00:35:05.070
in and the teacher, I met the teacher and he's

00:35:05.070 --> 00:35:08.230
like, and I noticed some of my friends were in

00:35:08.230 --> 00:35:10.510
the class and I was like, okay, cool. And he

00:35:10.510 --> 00:35:13.550
goes, hey, the first thing we're going to learn

00:35:13.550 --> 00:35:15.530
is how to break fall. Does anyone know why we

00:35:15.530 --> 00:35:17.650
need to learn how to break fall? And I go, me,

00:35:17.909 --> 00:35:21.239
choose me. And next thing you know, he goes,

00:35:21.320 --> 00:35:23.539
okay, you, come up here. He goes, what's your

00:35:23.539 --> 00:35:25.199
name? I go, my name's Eric. And he goes, all

00:35:25.199 --> 00:35:27.800
right, we're going to show you, all you kids,

00:35:27.820 --> 00:35:30.019
why you need to learn how to break fall. And

00:35:30.019 --> 00:35:31.980
he grabbed me and he hit me with a taiyatoshi

00:35:31.980 --> 00:35:37.400
and slammed me on the ground so hard. And I didn't

00:35:37.400 --> 00:35:39.340
know how to break fall, so I landed flat back.

00:35:39.559 --> 00:35:42.380
I did a full -blown flat back on the floor without

00:35:42.380 --> 00:35:46.480
a break fall. And I laid there, and it sounded

00:35:46.480 --> 00:35:51.199
like a box of... Cosmopolitan glass. Martini

00:35:51.199 --> 00:35:53.480
glass is shattering when I hit the ground. It's

00:35:53.480 --> 00:35:57.219
like... And I laid there and all of a sudden

00:35:57.219 --> 00:36:01.400
all my friends go... They're all clapping and

00:36:01.400 --> 00:36:03.980
laughing. And he goes, okay. And I'm laying there

00:36:03.980 --> 00:36:06.320
going, oh, I can't breathe. So next thing you

00:36:06.320 --> 00:36:10.219
know, he goes, hey, did you guys see that? And

00:36:10.219 --> 00:36:13.159
they're going, no, again, again. And he slammed

00:36:13.159 --> 00:36:16.280
me again like three times. And I was laying on

00:36:16.280 --> 00:36:18.769
the ground. I couldn't even get up. And that's

00:36:18.769 --> 00:36:21.590
when I realized that I was a slapstick comic.

00:36:22.889 --> 00:36:27.050
Because I can make all my friends laugh by jumping

00:36:27.050 --> 00:36:29.289
or getting slammed or doing something stupid.

00:36:29.869 --> 00:36:31.989
So when I was a little kid, I used to always

00:36:31.989 --> 00:36:34.909
make my friends laugh by doing stupid, crazy

00:36:34.909 --> 00:36:39.710
things. Eating things you shouldn't eat, riding

00:36:39.710 --> 00:36:42.789
your... We used to jump out of trees into the

00:36:42.789 --> 00:36:45.940
river that were... And there was rocks under

00:36:45.940 --> 00:36:47.480
the water. You could see the rocks under the

00:36:47.480 --> 00:36:49.360
water. And my friend's like, I'm going to do

00:36:49.360 --> 00:36:51.400
a swan dive. And I go, I'll bet you. And he's

00:36:51.400 --> 00:36:54.940
like, how much? And I go, I'll bet you $2 you

00:36:54.940 --> 00:36:57.840
wouldn't do a swan dive. He did a Popeye dive

00:36:57.840 --> 00:37:00.119
out of the tree. And then he didn't come up for

00:37:00.119 --> 00:37:03.320
a while. We had to go get him. That was normal.

00:37:04.059 --> 00:37:06.679
That was just normal stuff. We used to go to

00:37:06.679 --> 00:37:10.400
McDonald's when we were little. No, it was McDonald's.

00:37:11.139 --> 00:37:13.780
And we didn't have much money for the bus. We

00:37:13.780 --> 00:37:15.719
had enough for the bus, but not for food. So

00:37:15.719 --> 00:37:17.800
my friend would go, man, I'm hungry. Let's go

00:37:17.800 --> 00:37:20.500
get a burger. So you go get a burger. And then

00:37:20.500 --> 00:37:23.840
he would eat half the burger. And then halfway

00:37:23.840 --> 00:37:27.699
through the burger, he would take the bun off

00:37:27.699 --> 00:37:31.300
and he grabbed a bunch of hair, rip it off. And

00:37:31.300 --> 00:37:33.260
he put his hair in the burger. And then he'd

00:37:33.260 --> 00:37:36.219
go up to the front with a big wad of blonde hair

00:37:36.219 --> 00:37:39.480
and his burger. Look at this burger. It's full

00:37:39.480 --> 00:37:41.780
of hair. He goes, I can't eat this. I need a

00:37:41.780 --> 00:37:44.820
new one. And sometimes he would eat it, so there's

00:37:44.820 --> 00:37:48.900
one bite left. But that was like normal when

00:37:48.900 --> 00:37:52.860
we were kids, just stuff like that. So I wanted

00:37:52.860 --> 00:37:56.880
to compete. And so every time you do the class

00:37:56.880 --> 00:37:58.659
at the end, you had a competition. Everyone had

00:37:58.659 --> 00:38:01.980
to go against each other. And that's how I got

00:38:01.980 --> 00:38:05.690
into the judo. I loved it. I did it. two years

00:38:05.690 --> 00:38:10.230
in a row and i loved it and then uh i got a street

00:38:10.230 --> 00:38:14.010
fight in sixth grade no yeah sixth grade i got

00:38:14.010 --> 00:38:20.369
a street fight and uh all of a sudden uh i got

00:38:20.369 --> 00:38:23.809
my i went to do a hip toss on somebody this guy

00:38:23.809 --> 00:38:27.250
harold goulet and we went out he was kind of

00:38:27.250 --> 00:38:29.309
a bully so i said oh you want to bully people

00:38:29.309 --> 00:38:32.070
bully me so i went to grab him and hip toss him

00:38:32.070 --> 00:38:36.369
but we were out in the and the snow and ice and

00:38:36.369 --> 00:38:38.489
he grabbed my hair and he just pulled me straight

00:38:38.489 --> 00:38:41.789
back and slammed my head into the ground and

00:38:41.789 --> 00:38:44.269
uh my head's in the snow bank and i was like

00:38:44.269 --> 00:38:47.909
well judo sucks it doesn't even work man i learned

00:38:47.909 --> 00:38:50.110
all this judo i can't even use it in the street

00:38:50.110 --> 00:38:52.130
and then we grabbed each other's hair and then

00:38:52.130 --> 00:38:53.769
we just started punching each other in the face

00:38:53.769 --> 00:38:56.590
and then finally we both gave up at the same

00:38:56.590 --> 00:39:01.190
time and i go that's it screw judo i'm gonna

00:39:01.190 --> 00:39:04.750
i gotta learn how to punch and kick So, so in

00:39:04.750 --> 00:39:09.690
seventh grade, I went, no, it was sixth grade,

00:39:09.750 --> 00:39:13.250
sixth grade. I went to the movie theater with

00:39:13.250 --> 00:39:17.630
my friend, Jim Bolio. And I went to the movie

00:39:17.630 --> 00:39:21.449
theater to see Bruce Lee game of death was in

00:39:21.449 --> 00:39:26.269
the movie theater. That's how old I am. Game

00:39:26.269 --> 00:39:30.119
of death. And we went to game of death. And I

00:39:30.119 --> 00:39:32.699
watched Bruce Lee do all this striking stuff.

00:39:32.780 --> 00:39:36.500
And I said, man, I got to learn that stuff. So

00:39:36.500 --> 00:39:39.880
I bought all of Bruce Lee's books. I found them

00:39:39.880 --> 00:39:42.519
at the B Dalton bookstore. They had all of the,

00:39:42.599 --> 00:39:45.300
they had Bruce Lee's fighting methods. They had

00:39:45.300 --> 00:39:48.460
the best martial arts books ever. It's such a

00:39:48.460 --> 00:39:51.199
shame that there's no more stores like that,

00:39:51.260 --> 00:39:53.659
that are just bookstores that have stuff like

00:39:53.659 --> 00:39:58.010
that. And all those books today are worth. All

00:39:58.010 --> 00:40:00.349
the antiques, they're considered antiques, and

00:40:00.349 --> 00:40:04.329
they're like $100, $150, $200 each. It's crazy.

00:40:05.210 --> 00:40:07.409
Yeah. I had all those books, too. Dao Jikundo

00:40:07.409 --> 00:40:12.309
and all of them. There's a lot of the old books.

00:40:12.409 --> 00:40:14.070
A lot of the old karate books are worth a lot

00:40:14.070 --> 00:40:18.510
of money today. It's crazy. And, you know, one

00:40:18.510 --> 00:40:20.710
thing I have to say, my grandma was a teacher,

00:40:20.809 --> 00:40:26.050
and she introduced the book. She introduced a

00:40:26.050 --> 00:40:29.909
program called The Red. And it was about reading

00:40:29.909 --> 00:40:32.670
books, get a book in everyone's hand. She had

00:40:32.670 --> 00:40:36.469
book drives all the time. My grandfather was

00:40:36.469 --> 00:40:39.489
a farmer and she was a school teacher. So she

00:40:39.489 --> 00:40:41.110
said, Eric, there's one thing that will make

00:40:41.110 --> 00:40:44.610
you smarter every day. And if you do it and I

00:40:44.610 --> 00:40:47.429
go, what's that? She goes, read, open a book

00:40:47.429 --> 00:40:52.570
and read. And so here's the problem. Kids just

00:40:52.570 --> 00:40:56.610
sit on their phones, you know, and do they read

00:40:56.610 --> 00:41:01.300
books? Not really. They don't read stuff. They

00:41:01.300 --> 00:41:05.519
read texts, you know, and they play games, lots

00:41:05.519 --> 00:41:10.280
of games. You know, that's why every kid is computer

00:41:10.280 --> 00:41:14.420
savvy, but a lot of kids do not read books. So

00:41:14.420 --> 00:41:18.340
history, you know, a lot of history kind of disappears.

00:41:19.079 --> 00:41:22.480
You know, it's a 10 -year rule. Every new generation

00:41:22.480 --> 00:41:26.380
that comes out, I can teach all the shudo stuff.

00:41:27.440 --> 00:41:30.639
to people today and they'll go, wow, that's amazing.

00:41:31.260 --> 00:41:34.420
Well, man, I was teaching that in the 90s. And

00:41:34.420 --> 00:41:38.099
you wait, you skip a generation and start teaching

00:41:38.099 --> 00:41:40.480
all the old stuff again. And everyone, nobody

00:41:40.480 --> 00:41:44.519
learned it. Nobody. It's all new stuff. Yeah,

00:41:44.559 --> 00:41:46.920
we did. Dan Severin, who's on the show, came

00:41:46.920 --> 00:41:50.699
and did a seminar recently. Having done jiu -jitsu

00:41:50.699 --> 00:41:54.400
for a little while now, on and off, it was just

00:41:54.400 --> 00:41:58.039
crazy. The old, just regular wrestling was new

00:41:58.039 --> 00:42:01.179
to everyone. Just the bullying. Like you said,

00:42:01.219 --> 00:42:05.340
not dirty tactics, but the non -sporting move.

00:42:05.440 --> 00:42:07.960
Just because it's not allowed on a mat doesn't

00:42:07.960 --> 00:42:09.960
mean it's not applicable, especially in real

00:42:09.960 --> 00:42:15.179
-world application. Boxing and wrestling are

00:42:15.179 --> 00:42:21.329
Americas and Englands. Real martial arts. England's

00:42:21.329 --> 00:42:24.670
martial arts was catch wrestling and boxing.

00:42:26.530 --> 00:42:29.469
Fugilism. Same with America, boxing and wrestling.

00:42:29.730 --> 00:42:32.730
Those are the two. You know, I remember I was

00:42:32.730 --> 00:42:36.730
training at Tim Tackett's garage. And he was

00:42:36.730 --> 00:42:39.889
teaching JKD in his garage in Redlands, California.

00:42:40.389 --> 00:42:44.090
And he had snipers coming in. He had ex -military

00:42:44.090 --> 00:42:47.739
guys coming. The Wednesday night JKD group was

00:42:47.739 --> 00:42:50.480
amazing because it was all experimental. Here's

00:42:50.480 --> 00:42:52.800
all these new martial arts. Let's see if they're

00:42:52.800 --> 00:42:55.820
good. Tim Tackett's theory, he said, I don't

00:42:55.820 --> 00:42:59.760
care what you know. The bottom line is when you

00:42:59.760 --> 00:43:02.400
get in trouble, can you knock someone's dick

00:43:02.400 --> 00:43:06.000
in the dirt? That's what he said. I was like,

00:43:06.059 --> 00:43:09.639
wow, I'll remember that. Wise words. And then

00:43:09.639 --> 00:43:12.380
the other thing he had, he taught a lot of great

00:43:12.380 --> 00:43:15.969
stuff. The mentality. He said, you know, every

00:43:15.969 --> 00:43:17.349
time you're going to do something, if you're

00:43:17.349 --> 00:43:18.849
going to punch, you're going to elbow, you're

00:43:18.849 --> 00:43:20.769
going to knee, you're going to headbutt. He said,

00:43:20.809 --> 00:43:23.369
especially in the street, you need to have the

00:43:23.369 --> 00:43:27.230
fuck you mentality. And I was like, what do you

00:43:27.230 --> 00:43:30.489
mean? He goes, go ahead. He goes, swear at the

00:43:30.489 --> 00:43:34.570
pad when you're hitting it. I was like, oh, okay.

00:43:34.630 --> 00:43:37.989
Yeah, that does work. You know, because it kind

00:43:37.989 --> 00:43:45.059
of pulls the anger. A lot of people are super

00:43:45.059 --> 00:43:50.880
nice until they get super mad or angry. And I

00:43:50.880 --> 00:43:53.539
think that part, sometimes it's hard to switch

00:43:53.539 --> 00:43:56.420
on that adrenal burger. You know, it was what

00:43:56.420 --> 00:43:58.579
Bruce Lee called it, the adrenal burger, the

00:43:58.579 --> 00:44:00.860
adrenaline. How do you kick your adrenaline in?

00:44:00.940 --> 00:44:05.159
And it's really the FU mentality. That's what

00:44:05.159 --> 00:44:08.639
it is. It's the mentality of just being Mr. Nice

00:44:08.639 --> 00:44:10.639
Guy. And then all of a sudden, holy crap, that

00:44:10.639 --> 00:44:14.920
guy's a caged animal. I struggled with that when

00:44:14.920 --> 00:44:17.880
I competed. I remember the first time I did a

00:44:17.880 --> 00:44:20.360
taekwondo tournament, a friend of mine and I

00:44:20.360 --> 00:44:23.599
were in the same bout, and he whooped my ass,

00:44:23.780 --> 00:44:27.099
totally kicked my ass. And it was after that

00:44:27.099 --> 00:44:29.659
that I realized, okay, there's another side that,

00:44:29.719 --> 00:44:31.940
yeah, we tip -tap in class, but when it comes

00:44:31.940 --> 00:44:35.239
to actually being on the mat, you have to channel

00:44:35.239 --> 00:44:36.780
that. I think for some people it's harder than

00:44:36.780 --> 00:44:38.679
others, and I would like to think I'm that nice

00:44:38.679 --> 00:44:41.519
guy that has to really... work at getting pissed

00:44:41.519 --> 00:44:43.639
off and has to visualize things that make him

00:44:43.639 --> 00:44:47.679
angry that's that's the hard part especially

00:44:47.679 --> 00:44:51.820
for fighting too you know you uh you you have

00:44:51.820 --> 00:44:54.719
to be neat you don't have to be mean by nature

00:44:54.719 --> 00:44:58.079
but you have to know what meanness is you you

00:44:58.079 --> 00:45:00.559
have to know what it's like to just like go deep

00:45:00.559 --> 00:45:03.239
and and learn how to hurt people like manipulation

00:45:03.239 --> 00:45:06.559
and control and whether it's through striking

00:45:06.559 --> 00:45:09.900
or punching. You know, a lot of people say, oh,

00:45:09.940 --> 00:45:13.260
I'm just a peaceful person, and I like to just

00:45:13.260 --> 00:45:16.139
put people to sleep. Well, great. That's wonderful.

00:45:16.920 --> 00:45:19.719
But not everyone's an expert at the joke, or

00:45:19.719 --> 00:45:22.579
not everyone can get to the joke. So that's why

00:45:22.579 --> 00:45:27.579
I think submissions, like they call jujitsu the

00:45:27.579 --> 00:45:33.280
gentle art, and they call catrassing the violent.

00:45:33.659 --> 00:45:36.679
the violent art or the sport of cringe because

00:45:36.679 --> 00:45:38.719
some of the stuff the twists of the cranks and

00:45:38.719 --> 00:45:43.800
the rips that's why um csw combat submission

00:45:43.800 --> 00:45:46.500
wrestling is a compilation and mixture of all

00:45:46.500 --> 00:45:52.139
of that and uh our theory is uh crank rip and

00:45:52.139 --> 00:45:55.840
tear by any means because guess what we're not

00:45:55.840 --> 00:45:58.280
just guys competing in a grappling tournament

00:45:58.280 --> 00:46:01.400
we got fighters we've got Someone said, hey,

00:46:01.519 --> 00:46:06.320
what does CSW stand for? I go, well, we're catch

00:46:06.320 --> 00:46:10.460
wrestlers that fight. So all our guys know submission.

00:46:10.679 --> 00:46:12.300
They all know how to wrestle. They all learn

00:46:12.300 --> 00:46:15.400
how to strike. And we spar and we grapple all

00:46:15.400 --> 00:46:18.699
the time. And then we also fight. We fight in

00:46:18.699 --> 00:46:22.480
different tournaments, kickboxing, boxing, MMA.

00:46:23.710 --> 00:46:26.250
grappling tournaments, no -gi tournaments, catch

00:46:26.250 --> 00:46:28.690
wrestling tournaments. Some of our guys wrestle,

00:46:28.869 --> 00:46:31.250
some of them do judo, a little bit of sambo.

00:46:32.030 --> 00:46:38.510
That's important. That whole aspect is the overall

00:46:38.510 --> 00:46:42.610
aspect of fighting. It's kind of MMA. It's not

00:46:42.610 --> 00:46:47.130
just secluded to jiu -jitsu. When I look at the

00:46:47.130 --> 00:46:50.690
Bruce Lee philosophy, the teachings, the actual

00:46:51.210 --> 00:46:54.670
you know textbooks that he left us um it's funny

00:46:54.670 --> 00:46:58.409
now when you look at mma i think of you know

00:46:58.409 --> 00:47:00.090
his philosophy as you can know when i look think

00:47:00.090 --> 00:47:02.610
of crossfit for example i look at the way he

00:47:02.610 --> 00:47:04.389
was conditioning remember there was one like

00:47:04.389 --> 00:47:07.090
kind of 10 exercise cycle that he would go one

00:47:07.090 --> 00:47:08.349
after the other after the other and it looked

00:47:08.349 --> 00:47:10.630
the same as you know some of the wads that you

00:47:10.630 --> 00:47:13.949
would see today so what was you know what was

00:47:13.949 --> 00:47:16.170
your evolution of finding that kind of mixed

00:47:16.170 --> 00:47:18.949
martial arts and and the training side of that

00:47:18.949 --> 00:47:23.420
for you personally So, like I said, I got that

00:47:23.420 --> 00:47:26.460
street fight, which switched my mind on immediately.

00:47:27.159 --> 00:47:30.300
I have to study. So I started reading Bruce Lee's

00:47:30.300 --> 00:47:33.760
books. So I was like really reading and reading.

00:47:34.500 --> 00:47:38.800
There was a Taekwondo school. It was called Taekwondo,

00:47:38.920 --> 00:47:41.559
but it was all sport karate. It was all sparring.

00:47:42.079 --> 00:47:44.340
I said, do you guys do forms? They go, only when

00:47:44.340 --> 00:47:46.900
we have to. I was like, what do you mean? They

00:47:46.900 --> 00:47:49.480
go. The only time you'll learn a form is if you

00:47:49.480 --> 00:47:52.380
have to test for a belt. He said, but don't worry

00:47:52.380 --> 00:47:55.840
about your belt. Worry about your ability to

00:47:55.840 --> 00:47:59.360
perform. And he said, that's why we spar all

00:47:59.360 --> 00:48:05.260
the time. So we used to spar. And then my teacher.

00:48:06.860 --> 00:48:08.500
We sparred so much, he said, you know what you

00:48:08.500 --> 00:48:10.539
should do? You should try to develop your hands.

00:48:10.699 --> 00:48:13.699
So I got into boxing. In eighth grade, I got

00:48:13.699 --> 00:48:16.920
into boxing. So fourth grade judo, sixth grade

00:48:16.920 --> 00:48:21.579
taekwondo, sport karate. Eighth grade boxing.

00:48:24.179 --> 00:48:29.619
Ninth grade Aiki Jiu -Jitsu. And then 10th grade.

00:48:30.170 --> 00:48:32.949
I continued. I was a gymnast. I started gymnastics

00:48:32.949 --> 00:48:36.010
in eighth grade because I wanted a strong, flexible

00:48:36.010 --> 00:48:40.989
body. And it was a personal sport. Judo is a

00:48:40.989 --> 00:48:44.750
personal sport. Karate is a personal sport. Nothing

00:48:44.750 --> 00:48:49.530
was based on a team effort. So if you lost, it's

00:48:49.530 --> 00:48:52.510
because you lost, not because the team lost.

00:48:52.909 --> 00:48:56.269
And I like that aspect because you develop yourself.

00:48:56.389 --> 00:48:59.900
That was it. The development of yourself. And

00:48:59.900 --> 00:49:02.719
so that's why I thought it was really good to

00:49:02.719 --> 00:49:04.820
get into individual sports like gymnastics or

00:49:04.820 --> 00:49:10.940
wrestling. And so when I got into, so I started

00:49:10.940 --> 00:49:13.360
fighting full contact karate right when it came

00:49:13.360 --> 00:49:17.599
out. And it was like six kicks or eight kicks

00:49:17.599 --> 00:49:20.539
above the waist. And then it was pretty much

00:49:20.539 --> 00:49:24.000
a little bit of kicking, but mostly boxing. So

00:49:24.000 --> 00:49:26.199
that's why Golden Gloves boxing was so important.

00:49:26.300 --> 00:49:28.059
My dad threw me into boxing. He goes, you want

00:49:28.059 --> 00:49:31.030
to learn a real martial art? You need to box.

00:49:31.309 --> 00:49:33.769
So I got into boxing. I remember coming home

00:49:33.769 --> 00:49:37.630
with black eyes and concussions. Never, ever

00:49:37.630 --> 00:49:42.670
to this day have I been knocked out. Never. Never

00:49:42.670 --> 00:49:46.050
knocked out. Never choked out either. Never choked

00:49:46.050 --> 00:49:48.949
out. Never knocked out. And I've had tons and

00:49:48.949 --> 00:49:51.409
tons of rolling and tons and tons of sparring

00:49:51.409 --> 00:49:54.250
and fights. Never been knocked out from fighting.

00:49:54.389 --> 00:49:58.510
Never been. Might have one time been knocked

00:49:58.510 --> 00:50:01.440
out. Buy some Jägermeister, but that's neither

00:50:01.440 --> 00:50:05.360
here nor there. I have too, and I was 18 in a

00:50:05.360 --> 00:50:09.300
ski resort, so I can remember it clearly. Did

00:50:09.300 --> 00:50:11.579
you puke? Oh, God, I covered the whole hotel

00:50:11.579 --> 00:50:15.659
room. It was all black. It was disgusting. Jägermeister.

00:50:17.000 --> 00:50:21.559
That's an amazing. I thought Jäger was the best,

00:50:21.619 --> 00:50:27.059
and then it just erases your mind. Yeah, actually,

00:50:27.139 --> 00:50:29.760
I was 16. Yeah, because, I mean, we're in England

00:50:29.760 --> 00:50:32.840
now. The legal age is 18. But I was with my friend's

00:50:32.840 --> 00:50:35.519
parents, and we won this little Skittles competition.

00:50:36.000 --> 00:50:37.860
And so we've been drinking beer, and then they

00:50:37.860 --> 00:50:39.539
gave us a Jaeger as the winning thing. And I

00:50:39.539 --> 00:50:44.320
was, God, I was probably 130 pounds soaking wet.

00:50:44.659 --> 00:50:48.860
Yeah, so it just put me on my ass. Wow. Only

00:50:48.860 --> 00:50:52.280
one or two shots? It was probably only one. It

00:50:52.280 --> 00:50:55.010
was probably local. local Jägermeister. God knows

00:50:55.010 --> 00:50:57.869
how strong it was, but it was enough to ruin

00:50:57.869 --> 00:51:02.769
my day, that's for sure. Well, Chad ruined one

00:51:02.769 --> 00:51:07.250
of our friends. I was a bartender and one of

00:51:07.250 --> 00:51:10.130
our friends came in from Seattle. He was under

00:51:10.130 --> 00:51:14.530
Dan Inosano and he comes in and he goes, let's

00:51:14.530 --> 00:51:17.150
get our friend Chris, let's get him some Jäger.

00:51:17.309 --> 00:51:21.489
So he gave Chris a bunch of Jaeger. And I remember

00:51:21.489 --> 00:51:23.230
later on, I go, Hey, how are you guys doing?

00:51:23.269 --> 00:51:25.889
He goes, Oh boy, Chris is not good. I go, Chad,

00:51:25.929 --> 00:51:28.570
you were throwing Jaeger down his throat the

00:51:28.570 --> 00:51:30.309
whole night and he doesn't even drink Jaeger.

00:51:31.090 --> 00:51:37.309
It's crazy. It's a good and a bad one. Anyways,

00:51:37.389 --> 00:51:42.809
moderation. Next, boxing, Aikido, full contact

00:51:42.809 --> 00:51:49.900
karate. I met Rick Fay. When I was getting ready

00:51:49.900 --> 00:51:52.400
for my black belt in Taekwondo, I had another

00:51:52.400 --> 00:51:55.679
instructor. It was a fight school. And I was

00:51:55.679 --> 00:52:00.639
thinking about some other arts. But I would read

00:52:00.639 --> 00:52:02.320
all the different books of all the different

00:52:02.320 --> 00:52:04.639
arts. And I'd try. I was a technician, so I would

00:52:04.639 --> 00:52:07.360
try all this stuff on my friends. I had a gym

00:52:07.360 --> 00:52:09.659
in my garage. I always had a gym in my garage.

00:52:10.280 --> 00:52:15.079
I had a heavy bag and mats and makawara and kick.

00:52:15.159 --> 00:52:18.280
I had a kick. a bag on the pole that we used

00:52:18.280 --> 00:52:23.199
to just kick to develop my shins. And I created

00:52:23.199 --> 00:52:27.380
a rope pulley to do the split. So I was super

00:52:27.380 --> 00:52:30.639
flexible and I put my foot in the air and I hold

00:52:30.639 --> 00:52:34.639
the, and it was just a wheel. So the rope went

00:52:34.639 --> 00:52:37.139
around it and then I would hold that and I would

00:52:37.139 --> 00:52:39.079
just rotate from split to split. That thing was

00:52:39.079 --> 00:52:41.579
so good. I have one at my school now, but nobody

00:52:41.579 --> 00:52:44.199
knows how to use it. It's the most underused,

00:52:44.260 --> 00:52:47.619
but the best flexibility piece of equipment that's

00:52:47.619 --> 00:52:50.360
out there right now. You hang a rope on a pulley,

00:52:50.519 --> 00:52:53.159
you put a handle on one side, and then you put

00:52:53.159 --> 00:52:57.300
a loop, which I use like a seatbelt. And I put

00:52:57.300 --> 00:53:00.239
my leg in that, and I do the splits and stuff

00:53:00.239 --> 00:53:04.380
on that. Anyways, I used to have all that stuff

00:53:04.380 --> 00:53:07.159
in my house. And then next thing you know, I...

00:53:09.519 --> 00:53:12.579
I met Rick Fay. He came into my Taekwondo school.

00:53:12.820 --> 00:53:17.280
And Rick Fay is under Dan Inosano. He's a senior

00:53:17.280 --> 00:53:20.760
full instructor. And Rick Fay was teaching at

00:53:20.760 --> 00:53:24.679
my karate school. And these guys, they had to

00:53:24.679 --> 00:53:27.500
go buy dowel rods. And I walked in and he was

00:53:27.500 --> 00:53:31.199
teaching them all these weapon, like figure eights,

00:53:31.199 --> 00:53:36.079
X's, all the X series. And then the six count

00:53:36.079 --> 00:53:40.420
with the sticks. and uh it's called heaven six

00:53:40.420 --> 00:53:44.539
heaven standard earth and i go oh that's cool

00:53:44.539 --> 00:53:47.460
i just don't i'm not really into weapons so and

00:53:47.460 --> 00:53:49.559
then i saw him do some empty hand stuff and he

00:53:49.559 --> 00:53:51.559
started with the footwork and i go oh that guy's

00:53:51.559 --> 00:53:53.940
definitely a boxer because there's no way that

00:53:53.940 --> 00:53:56.300
he does all that footwork without you know being

00:53:56.300 --> 00:54:00.039
a boxer he looked just like a boxer and then

00:54:00.039 --> 00:54:02.059
he had five different footwork drills that he

00:54:02.059 --> 00:54:07.559
did i still remember this day and then uh He

00:54:07.559 --> 00:54:10.900
ended up hitting the pads and then all of a sudden

00:54:10.900 --> 00:54:13.659
he started doing some trapping. And then he started

00:54:13.659 --> 00:54:16.860
doing destructions like guntings on the guy's

00:54:16.860 --> 00:54:20.840
arms and then entries into throws. And then on

00:54:20.840 --> 00:54:24.400
the ground he taught a bunch of cool stuff. But

00:54:24.400 --> 00:54:27.360
he was so fluid and he had such good energy about

00:54:27.360 --> 00:54:32.019
him. And I immediately... got his card and I

00:54:32.019 --> 00:54:33.780
said, where, where do you teach? What exactly

00:54:33.780 --> 00:54:35.739
are you teaching? He goes, Oh, it's Bruce Lee's

00:54:35.739 --> 00:54:40.079
Jeet Kune Do. And I said, did you train, you

00:54:40.079 --> 00:54:41.960
learned who, where did you learn that? And he

00:54:41.960 --> 00:54:45.039
goes, well, Dan and Asano is my teacher. I go,

00:54:45.079 --> 00:54:48.039
Dan and Asano is your teacher. I go, man, he's

00:54:48.039 --> 00:54:50.739
in Bruce Lee's books. And he goes, yeah. And

00:54:50.739 --> 00:54:53.659
I go, well. I would like to learn more. So I

00:54:53.659 --> 00:54:55.400
went to a school, started going to a school.

00:54:55.420 --> 00:54:57.619
When I graduated high school, I ended up going

00:54:57.619 --> 00:55:05.400
there from 1982 to 1985, almost to 86. And then

00:55:05.400 --> 00:55:09.840
I went from spring break in high school. When

00:55:09.840 --> 00:55:12.280
I graduated high school, I went to Florida and

00:55:12.280 --> 00:55:15.960
I came back and I go, I'm moving to California.

00:55:16.239 --> 00:55:19.480
I love it out there. So I moved to Palm Desert.

00:55:20.379 --> 00:55:22.340
And someone said, why don't you go to Palm Desert?

00:55:22.440 --> 00:55:24.719
Why don't you just go to L .A.? And I go, I got

00:55:24.719 --> 00:55:26.639
to go to Palm Desert because I got to get my

00:55:26.639 --> 00:55:30.840
culture shock over. Because I was a Midwestern

00:55:30.840 --> 00:55:36.380
boy from Minnesota, and I was super naive. And

00:55:36.380 --> 00:55:38.860
I thought the word gullible was written on the

00:55:38.860 --> 00:55:42.920
ceiling. I didn't know. It wasn't. Someone told

00:55:42.920 --> 00:55:46.719
me it was, and I believed them. Anyways, next

00:55:46.719 --> 00:55:52.869
thing you know. I ended up in Palm Desert. I

00:55:52.869 --> 00:55:56.789
was in Palm Desert for five years. And I was

00:55:56.789 --> 00:55:59.769
doing Taekwondo and boxing out there. And I had

00:55:59.769 --> 00:56:02.210
mats in my garage and I was grappling. We had

00:56:02.210 --> 00:56:05.289
our garage gym. And then next thing you know,

00:56:05.369 --> 00:56:09.409
I started going and driving to L .A. to the Jet

00:56:09.409 --> 00:56:13.050
Center for private lessons. I would train with

00:56:13.050 --> 00:56:17.269
Betty the Jet. And then I came, went by, drove

00:56:17.269 --> 00:56:19.570
by the Inosano Academy to see what was going

00:56:19.570 --> 00:56:22.309
on. And there was a shoot wrestling seminar in

00:56:22.309 --> 00:56:30.690
1988. But from 86, I was also driving and training

00:56:30.690 --> 00:56:34.190
in Tim Tackett's garage. And Tim Tackett said

00:56:34.190 --> 00:56:37.690
in 1986, he said, hey, there's a new art coming

00:56:37.690 --> 00:56:39.909
out. And these guys, they're really tough and

00:56:39.909 --> 00:56:41.710
they have an open challenge. They'll fight anybody

00:56:41.710 --> 00:56:44.409
in the world to prove how great their art is.

00:56:45.019 --> 00:56:47.440
And I go, what's it called? And he goes, Brazilian

00:56:47.440 --> 00:56:51.940
Jiu -Jitsu. You should learn it. He goes, why

00:56:51.940 --> 00:56:54.019
don't you go down there and learn a couple things

00:56:54.019 --> 00:56:56.960
and then just come back and show us a couple

00:56:56.960 --> 00:57:00.000
things and tell us why it's different than all

00:57:00.000 --> 00:57:03.880
the other arts. And my first private lesson was

00:57:03.880 --> 00:57:09.619
with Master Horian Gracie. And it was a self

00:57:09.619 --> 00:57:11.679
-defense private. And then we did a little bit

00:57:11.679 --> 00:57:16.389
of stuff on the ground. I could not believe how

00:57:16.389 --> 00:57:24.389
nice and just how kind and gentle just his demeanor

00:57:24.389 --> 00:57:27.550
was. And then he showed me all this cool stuff

00:57:27.550 --> 00:57:30.869
and self -defense, asked me what I would do if

00:57:30.869 --> 00:57:34.289
he grabbed me, grabbed my shirt. It was all self

00:57:34.289 --> 00:57:37.230
-defense scenarios. And then we did a couple

00:57:37.230 --> 00:57:41.059
of techniques on the ground. How to about positioning

00:57:41.059 --> 00:57:44.739
and escaping and controlling people. And then

00:57:44.739 --> 00:57:49.079
next thing you know, we shook hands. He gave

00:57:49.079 --> 00:57:51.099
me a hug. He goes, I can't wait to see you next

00:57:51.099 --> 00:57:53.539
time. He gave me a hug and I left. I go, that

00:57:53.539 --> 00:57:57.239
was amazing. And it was just, you know, his warmth,

00:57:57.360 --> 00:57:59.380
his demeanor. He introduced me to his family,

00:57:59.480 --> 00:58:06.369
his kids, Halleck and Henner and Huron. We're

00:58:06.369 --> 00:58:08.090
all in the living room. There are little kids

00:58:08.090 --> 00:58:11.050
watching TV. So I met all of them. He brought

00:58:11.050 --> 00:58:13.030
me in his house and introduced me and showed

00:58:13.030 --> 00:58:17.050
me all about Gracie jiu -jitsu heritage and about

00:58:17.050 --> 00:58:20.429
his dad, how he fought. And he had an open challenge

00:58:20.429 --> 00:58:22.690
and tried to fight Joe Lewis and all this stuff.

00:58:24.829 --> 00:58:28.849
Amazing. And he showed me before the UFC what

00:58:28.849 --> 00:58:33.139
his ideals were for the UFC. His ideals for the

00:58:33.139 --> 00:58:38.219
UFC were to bring a cage in on a crane and drop

00:58:38.219 --> 00:58:40.659
it down and bolt it in and then have the fighters

00:58:40.659 --> 00:58:44.099
walk in. And I was like, why don't you just bolt

00:58:44.099 --> 00:58:46.820
it down and keep it bolted down and walk in and

00:58:46.820 --> 00:58:48.840
then shut the door? You lose the crane part.

00:58:49.239 --> 00:58:53.800
Yeah, lose the crane. But it was kind of cool,

00:58:53.840 --> 00:58:55.559
the idea with the crane, though, how they just

00:58:55.559 --> 00:58:57.639
dropped it down, they locked it in, and then

00:58:57.639 --> 00:59:02.329
boom, you're in. The idea was cool. But anyways,

00:59:02.590 --> 00:59:05.170
he changed it. And then he hooked up with Art

00:59:05.170 --> 00:59:09.710
Davies and Kathy Kidd. And he got involved and

00:59:09.710 --> 00:59:15.570
got that. And they grabbed a bunch of opponents

00:59:15.570 --> 00:59:20.030
from all different martial arts. And then they

00:59:20.030 --> 00:59:23.400
had that open challenge. But that's how I got

00:59:23.400 --> 00:59:26.500
involved in Gracie Jiu -Jitsu. It was 1986. In

00:59:26.500 --> 00:59:30.099
1988, I did my first Shudo seminar. I was also

00:59:30.099 --> 00:59:32.360
training, doing privates, not privates. I was

00:59:32.360 --> 00:59:34.380
driving in and doing seminars at the Inosano

00:59:34.380 --> 00:59:37.219
Academy. I did a Nike Jiu -Jitsu seminar with

00:59:37.219 --> 00:59:40.780
Bernie Lau. He was a Nike Jiu -Jitsu police officer

00:59:40.780 --> 00:59:43.239
in Seattle. And then I did another seminar with

00:59:43.239 --> 00:59:45.760
Burt Richardson. It was on Kali and dancing and

00:59:45.760 --> 00:59:49.829
the disguise. of all the dancing movements in

00:59:49.829 --> 00:59:53.010
the Kambangan and all this stuff, how the ancient

00:59:53.010 --> 00:59:56.429
cultures used to disguise their fighting through

00:59:56.429 --> 01:00:01.949
dance. It's like the Irish. You know the Irish

01:00:01.949 --> 01:00:05.170
dance. You know why they did learn that, right?

01:00:05.530 --> 01:00:09.469
No, I don't. Because the British, the English

01:00:09.469 --> 01:00:12.369
soldiers would walk by and look in the windows.

01:00:13.730 --> 01:00:15.989
and they wouldn't move their upper body. They

01:00:15.989 --> 01:00:19.309
would only be moving their feet. Because if they

01:00:19.309 --> 01:00:20.949
saw their upper body moving, they'd go, hey,

01:00:20.949 --> 01:00:25.369
these guys are dancing. So it was forbidden.

01:00:25.690 --> 01:00:28.150
So they would just move their feet, and they

01:00:28.150 --> 01:00:30.190
wouldn't move their upper body. And that's where

01:00:30.190 --> 01:00:33.050
the Irish dance came from. The river dancing?

01:00:33.289 --> 01:00:39.210
I didn't realize that. Yeah. I always ask, I

01:00:39.210 --> 01:00:40.750
go, how come they don't move their upper body?

01:00:40.809 --> 01:00:43.119
And they go, oh, they weren't allowed. It was

01:00:43.119 --> 01:00:47.219
hidden and forbidden. So interesting, but the

01:00:47.219 --> 01:00:50.940
dance is a Kambangan or it's a lot of the movements

01:00:50.940 --> 01:00:53.480
are hidden through jurors, which are kind of

01:00:53.480 --> 01:00:59.320
forms, uh, lankas, jurors, and all these, they're

01:00:59.320 --> 01:01:03.840
like karate katas or forms. They're, uh, some

01:01:03.840 --> 01:01:07.269
of the stuff is hidden. It was amazing. I'm sorry

01:01:07.269 --> 01:01:09.469
to interrupt. It was amazing listening to Guru

01:01:09.469 --> 01:01:12.190
Inosanto when I went to the seminar here in Jacksonville.

01:01:12.250 --> 01:01:16.469
That was about three years ago now. But the passion

01:01:16.469 --> 01:01:19.590
and just the knowledge, the heritage and the

01:01:19.590 --> 01:01:22.670
history, especially, obviously, the Filipino

01:01:22.670 --> 01:01:28.690
culture and upbringing and origin of the martial

01:01:28.690 --> 01:01:30.610
arts was fascinating. I could listen to him for

01:01:30.610 --> 01:01:33.550
hours, hours and hours and hours. He was absolutely

01:01:33.550 --> 01:01:39.000
engaging. A lot of people. A lot of people actually

01:01:39.000 --> 01:01:42.960
ask, is it possible that Guru Dan just demos

01:01:42.960 --> 01:01:48.559
and talks for a seminar? I said, so you guys

01:01:48.559 --> 01:01:50.239
don't do anything? And they go, no, we just want

01:01:50.239 --> 01:01:54.659
to watch him and listen to him. Absolutely. He's

01:01:54.659 --> 01:01:57.820
so humble. He goes, oh, people don't want. I

01:01:57.820 --> 01:02:02.639
said, you have no idea. You are the martial arts

01:02:02.639 --> 01:02:05.159
historian. You know everything about martial

01:02:05.159 --> 01:02:08.250
arts, about all these different arts. that nobody

01:02:08.250 --> 01:02:11.130
knows about nobody's going to ever have that

01:02:11.130 --> 01:02:13.389
much knowledge he's always training with new

01:02:13.389 --> 01:02:18.210
people he gets to a high level and then he's

01:02:18.210 --> 01:02:21.230
off to another art as he continues with each

01:02:21.230 --> 01:02:25.250
teacher amazing even jujitsu he's had he got

01:02:25.250 --> 01:02:27.969
he got cauliflower ears guru dan and asano got

01:02:27.969 --> 01:02:31.969
cauliflower ears at 65 years old and every time

01:02:31.969 --> 01:02:34.050
on the airplane i go what's that he goes oh it's

01:02:34.050 --> 01:02:37.210
my privates and i go well How many are you up

01:02:37.210 --> 01:02:40.030
to right now? He goes, I'm up to 965 private

01:02:40.030 --> 01:02:43.190
lessons. And he had it all documented, written

01:02:43.190 --> 01:02:47.690
down. And he had a chart with colors. So one

01:02:47.690 --> 01:02:51.010
color was his teaching. Another green color.

01:02:51.070 --> 01:02:55.590
Yellow was teaching. Green was training. And

01:02:55.590 --> 01:03:01.050
then it was green, yellow, green. And then blue

01:03:01.050 --> 01:03:05.420
was like relaxing or massage or whatever. And

01:03:05.420 --> 01:03:08.340
he had this document every day. He continued.

01:03:08.519 --> 01:03:11.099
His whole life was documented for a long time

01:03:11.099 --> 01:03:15.340
that way. And he would look at his charts. He

01:03:15.340 --> 01:03:17.679
goes, boy, look, I'm teaching way more than I'm

01:03:17.679 --> 01:03:20.599
training. That's not good. And so he would change.

01:03:20.780 --> 01:03:22.699
He had to change stuff. He would just look at

01:03:22.699 --> 01:03:24.679
the colors and he could tell, hey, well, I'm

01:03:24.679 --> 01:03:28.119
not getting enough massage or relaxation or downtime.

01:03:30.380 --> 01:03:32.719
And stuff like that. So it was good. He had just

01:03:32.719 --> 01:03:35.940
documents of all of that, which to me was completely

01:03:35.940 --> 01:03:38.360
amazing. And I was fortunate that I got to start

01:03:38.360 --> 01:03:41.880
training there. I started training at the Innoson

01:03:41.880 --> 01:03:47.659
Academy officially. I started in 1988. And I

01:03:47.659 --> 01:03:51.599
started Trudeau. And I did the Silat, Pentrax

01:03:51.599 --> 01:03:55.139
Silat with Pendecker Paul Dutois. I took, Burt

01:03:55.139 --> 01:03:58.219
Richardson was our phase one teacher. I was happy

01:03:58.219 --> 01:04:01.380
when I got invited to the, to Guru Dan's class.

01:04:02.179 --> 01:04:04.599
And he had phase one, phase two, phase three.

01:04:04.679 --> 01:04:09.579
Guru taught a phase class, which it was a mixture,

01:04:09.719 --> 01:04:13.480
a compilation of Thai boxing. It was more like

01:04:13.480 --> 01:04:18.659
boxing, savate, trapping. And then there was

01:04:18.659 --> 01:04:21.699
a Kali class that was separate. And then there

01:04:21.699 --> 01:04:24.159
was a Thai boxing class. He separated that, and

01:04:24.159 --> 01:04:26.719
that was a separate class. So he had the Jun

01:04:26.719 --> 01:04:29.760
Fun kickboxing, trapping, and grappling. which

01:04:29.760 --> 01:04:33.579
is JKD. And then it was just really cool because

01:04:33.579 --> 01:04:35.199
there were so many different arts you could learn

01:04:35.199 --> 01:04:38.599
there. It was almost like a college. I heard

01:04:38.599 --> 01:04:41.500
you talking as well about competing. And what

01:04:41.500 --> 01:04:44.159
was interesting is that you were talking about

01:04:44.159 --> 01:04:46.699
fighting in Japan, but also it sounded like you

01:04:46.699 --> 01:04:49.059
touched on the fact that there were elements

01:04:49.059 --> 01:04:53.309
of pride that may have been... predetermined

01:04:53.309 --> 01:04:54.929
who was going to win. And I'd never kind of got

01:04:54.929 --> 01:04:57.829
that from Pride as an audience member. So if

01:04:57.829 --> 01:04:59.250
you wouldn't mind, talk to me about your competitive

01:04:59.250 --> 01:05:01.449
element because I lived in Japan for a while

01:05:01.449 --> 01:05:04.110
myself too. And then what you saw kind of behind

01:05:04.110 --> 01:05:09.010
the scenes of early MMA. Okay. Well, so when

01:05:09.010 --> 01:05:11.869
I started training Shudo in 1988, I was also

01:05:11.869 --> 01:05:16.989
training under Hickson. And what I did is I did

01:05:16.989 --> 01:05:20.510
a seminar. I was training with Hoisin Horian.

01:05:20.980 --> 01:05:24.260
And then I started training with Hickson. Because

01:05:24.260 --> 01:05:26.420
Hickson was teaching just straight ground stuff.

01:05:26.480 --> 01:05:27.940
I didn't have to learn all the self -defense.

01:05:28.980 --> 01:05:32.800
But I'm glad everything worked out the way it

01:05:32.800 --> 01:05:35.079
was supposed to. I'm glad I learned the self

01:05:35.079 --> 01:05:36.900
-defense stuff. Because a lot of guys today never

01:05:36.900 --> 01:05:40.639
learned it. A lot of guys never got the self

01:05:40.639 --> 01:05:43.239
-defense stuff with the Brazilian Jiu -Jitsu.

01:05:43.340 --> 01:05:46.960
They got all the ground stuff. They got all the

01:05:46.960 --> 01:05:51.650
sports stuff. But they didn't get the... the

01:05:51.650 --> 01:05:56.949
traditional self -defense stuff. So after I met

01:05:56.949 --> 01:05:59.230
with Hickson, I did a private and we hit the

01:05:59.230 --> 01:06:02.289
ground. And then unfortunately at the time, Hoyce

01:06:02.289 --> 01:06:06.829
actually said, Hey Eric, I heard you took a private

01:06:06.829 --> 01:06:08.769
with my brother the other day. I go, yeah, it

01:06:08.769 --> 01:06:10.789
was great. He goes, did you like it? I go, yeah.

01:06:10.789 --> 01:06:12.769
He goes, and what do you think? And I go, I thought

01:06:12.769 --> 01:06:15.349
it was great. Maybe I could go over there. Maybe

01:06:15.349 --> 01:06:18.130
I could come here on Tuesdays and go there on

01:06:18.130 --> 01:06:20.579
Thursdays. And he goes, well, you're going to

01:06:20.579 --> 01:06:26.260
kind of have to make a choice. And I go, what

01:06:26.260 --> 01:06:28.420
do you mean? That's your brother. I can't train

01:06:28.420 --> 01:06:32.280
with both you guys. And he goes, well, you can't

01:06:32.280 --> 01:06:35.000
play on two football teams at once. And I go,

01:06:35.019 --> 01:06:40.139
what do you mean? It's Gracie Jiu -Jitsu. And

01:06:40.139 --> 01:06:48.300
so they're segregating and separating. They were

01:06:48.300 --> 01:06:52.400
just being separate. So I just said, hey, well,

01:06:52.500 --> 01:06:56.260
I saw, I did my first Shudo seminar in 1988.

01:06:56.760 --> 01:06:59.940
Then in 19, sorry, then I started training with

01:06:59.940 --> 01:07:02.820
Hickson. And I said, I want to get the ground

01:07:02.820 --> 01:07:06.960
down and mix it with the Shudo stuff so I could

01:07:06.960 --> 01:07:09.840
go fight in Japan. I want to fight. Because I

01:07:09.840 --> 01:07:12.440
was always an athlete in a sport. I was always

01:07:12.440 --> 01:07:16.179
into sports. And I always wanted, the only way

01:07:16.179 --> 01:07:19.039
to get better is to put it on the line. And this

01:07:19.039 --> 01:07:21.480
was before anyone wanted to fight. Nobody wanted

01:07:21.480 --> 01:07:26.460
to fight. It was 1988, 99, 89. And I said, I

01:07:26.460 --> 01:07:28.239
want to fight. So I started training with Hickson

01:07:28.239 --> 01:07:32.340
in the ground, just mostly the ground. And then

01:07:32.340 --> 01:07:34.880
he changed from, I went from his garage. I started

01:07:34.880 --> 01:07:36.539
training him in his garage. And then I started

01:07:36.539 --> 01:07:40.119
training with him at Pico Boulevard in Santa

01:07:40.119 --> 01:07:43.570
Monica at that school. And at that time I was

01:07:43.570 --> 01:07:45.670
training that and shoot out back and forth. I

01:07:45.670 --> 01:07:48.429
was doing both together and I was doing Thai

01:07:48.429 --> 01:07:52.030
boxing and boxing. I had all these different,

01:07:52.050 --> 01:07:55.449
I had a boxing coach. I had a rest. I didn't

01:07:55.449 --> 01:07:59.010
have a wrestling coach yet. Thai boxing coach,

01:07:59.269 --> 01:08:03.849
Savat coach. And then I team of guys from the

01:08:03.849 --> 01:08:08.110
shootout that were all preparing for, for competition.

01:08:08.809 --> 01:08:11.960
And then I was going to jujitsu to get. to get

01:08:11.960 --> 01:08:15.579
my ground better secretly. And then I also was

01:08:15.579 --> 01:08:18.359
still doing gymnastics. There's a couple of gymnastics

01:08:18.359 --> 01:08:21.239
schools around. I go train a little bit. So I

01:08:21.239 --> 01:08:24.779
made sure I could still tumble. And then next

01:08:24.779 --> 01:08:29.460
thing you know, Yuri Nakamura in 91 said, would

01:08:29.460 --> 01:08:32.560
you be interested to fight? And I said, yes.

01:08:32.859 --> 01:08:35.579
So I put a demo tape together and I sent it to

01:08:35.579 --> 01:08:39.409
Japan. to Satoru Sayama, and I said, I'm one

01:08:39.409 --> 01:08:43.050
of Yuri Nakamura's fighters or students, and

01:08:43.050 --> 01:08:45.970
I would like to fight in Japan if you would have

01:08:45.970 --> 01:08:49.789
me. So they set it up with Chad. Chad and I.

01:08:51.409 --> 01:08:54.229
Yuri goes, I found a guy. He's going to be your

01:08:54.229 --> 01:08:56.229
assistant, and you two are going to go to fight

01:08:56.229 --> 01:08:58.750
in Japan. I go, who? And he goes, Chad. Chad

01:08:58.750 --> 01:09:02.029
doesn't work the ground. He just loves kickboxing.

01:09:03.109 --> 01:09:08.250
But Chad was a Japanese jiu -jitsu. So he was

01:09:08.250 --> 01:09:12.729
really good at throwing. I just helped him with

01:09:12.729 --> 01:09:15.909
his ground and his striking got better than everyone.

01:09:16.010 --> 01:09:18.649
So I asked Chad to help me with my striking on

01:09:18.649 --> 01:09:23.970
the side. And then all my grappling, I was doing

01:09:23.970 --> 01:09:25.970
it. I said, I'll help you get your grappling

01:09:25.970 --> 01:09:27.770
better if you help me get my striking better.

01:09:28.270 --> 01:09:33.619
And then what happened is Chad. He fought in

01:09:33.619 --> 01:09:36.119
Japan. Him and I fought in Japan together in

01:09:36.119 --> 01:09:41.239
the beginning in 1993. And then the first UFC

01:09:41.239 --> 01:09:45.279
was, I think, in August of 1983. So we fought

01:09:45.279 --> 01:09:50.159
before the first UFC together in Japan. And then

01:09:50.159 --> 01:09:54.560
Chad got hurt. I think he fought. He only fought

01:09:54.560 --> 01:09:56.340
in France. He fought a couple of fights. Then

01:09:56.340 --> 01:10:00.069
he fought in Japan. And he got hurt. And then

01:10:00.069 --> 01:10:03.130
he's like, you know, and one time we were grappling

01:10:03.130 --> 01:10:07.909
and he put a hook in, he put a leg in and he

01:10:07.909 --> 01:10:10.850
only one hook and he spun to my back. He went

01:10:10.850 --> 01:10:16.289
for an ankle lock with one hook in and he could,

01:10:16.329 --> 01:10:18.109
cause I wouldn't let his other hook in to take

01:10:18.109 --> 01:10:20.930
my back to choke me. So I took, so he went for

01:10:20.930 --> 01:10:24.909
an ankle lock and I sprawled and his knee broke

01:10:24.909 --> 01:10:29.550
sideways, ripped. I ripped his knee. It was by

01:10:29.550 --> 01:10:32.010
accident. I didn't do it on purpose. It wasn't

01:10:32.010 --> 01:10:37.029
malicious. He goes, my knee just ripped. And

01:10:37.029 --> 01:10:42.810
he goes, call 911 to Damon. And then he bit my

01:10:42.810 --> 01:10:47.210
leg. Oh, really? So much pain. He bit my leg.

01:10:47.250 --> 01:10:52.350
And I put my finger in his mouth like this. And

01:10:52.350 --> 01:10:55.880
I was going like this on his. I was eye gouging

01:10:55.880 --> 01:10:58.520
him and ripping his mouth because he was biting

01:10:58.520 --> 01:11:02.619
my leg so hard. He ripped his leg. I ripped his

01:11:02.619 --> 01:11:06.600
leg, not on purpose. That was actually after

01:11:06.600 --> 01:11:10.619
I ripped his elbow. Because one time I got him

01:11:10.619 --> 01:11:12.560
in a head and arm and it's called a pillow via

01:11:12.560 --> 01:11:14.539
arm lock where you go around the head and then

01:11:14.539 --> 01:11:17.159
you put the arm under. So I had the head and

01:11:17.159 --> 01:11:19.220
arm and I started to pull his head up. And as

01:11:19.220 --> 01:11:23.220
I'm pulling his head up, he goes, oh. I go, Chad,

01:11:23.319 --> 01:11:26.100
it's on. I've got it. The lock is on. Just tap.

01:11:26.279 --> 01:11:27.960
And he goes, I'm not tapping. That's not on.

01:11:28.739 --> 01:11:31.340
I slid my hip back and I started lifting his

01:11:31.340 --> 01:11:33.220
head a little. He goes, that's not on. I'm not

01:11:33.220 --> 01:11:36.520
tapping. I go, Chad, the lock is on. Just tap.

01:11:36.640 --> 01:11:39.760
He goes, it's not on. So I slid my hip back a

01:11:39.760 --> 01:11:41.180
little more and started lifting his head up.

01:11:41.220 --> 01:11:43.479
Then I go, Chad, it's on. Tap. He goes, I'm not

01:11:43.479 --> 01:11:47.520
tapping. I go, all right. And it ripped his elbow

01:11:47.520 --> 01:11:51.199
like a sheet of paper. But we were running back

01:11:51.199 --> 01:11:53.460
and forth to the hospital regularly because he

01:11:53.460 --> 01:11:56.699
was always getting hurt. And I understand why

01:11:56.699 --> 01:11:59.880
he's like, you know what? My body's getting ripped

01:11:59.880 --> 01:12:02.899
and broken apart. There's no money. We're poor.

01:12:03.460 --> 01:12:05.920
We're going to be ugly. We're going to be poor.

01:12:06.100 --> 01:12:08.260
There's no money. We're beat up. Our bodies are

01:12:08.260 --> 01:12:11.279
beat up. He goes, get out of fighting. Quit fighting

01:12:11.279 --> 01:12:14.619
and follow me. Follow me and we'll start doing

01:12:14.619 --> 01:12:19.949
stunts. And we'll keep our young. good looks

01:12:19.949 --> 01:12:23.149
and then we won't have any injuries and then

01:12:23.149 --> 01:12:25.189
we'll make money and we'll be rich and good looking.

01:12:26.649 --> 01:12:29.010
That's what he said. I've been doing stunts for

01:12:29.010 --> 01:12:31.210
a while now. I'm not rich or good looking. How

01:12:31.210 --> 01:12:37.649
did that work out for you? Don't be humble. Let's

01:12:37.649 --> 01:12:39.630
talk about that. Talk to me about the entry into

01:12:39.630 --> 01:12:41.750
the stunt world. I think some of the guys that

01:12:41.750 --> 01:12:44.029
were in the team that you were a part of are

01:12:44.029 --> 01:12:49.090
my bosses now at Action Horizons. yeah but you

01:12:49.090 --> 01:12:50.949
were doing the films that i was watching as a

01:12:50.949 --> 01:12:54.229
young man including blood sport which um is an

01:12:54.229 --> 01:12:57.250
interesting perspective because there you were

01:12:57.250 --> 01:13:01.229
actually a competitive martial artist um doing

01:13:01.229 --> 01:13:04.529
a film about you know a kumite that may or not

01:13:04.529 --> 01:13:07.430
have actually happened in real life martial arts

01:13:07.430 --> 01:13:13.989
yeah um so so i was a bartender the whole time

01:13:13.989 --> 01:13:18.489
i was training i was a bartender and I started

01:13:18.489 --> 01:13:23.850
fighting in 93, but the stunts and bartending

01:13:23.850 --> 01:13:30.550
is what segued me into fighting. It was like

01:13:30.550 --> 01:13:36.850
it just set it up. So I was a school professor

01:13:36.850 --> 01:13:41.010
at College of the Desert in Palm Desert, California.

01:13:41.909 --> 01:13:44.909
And I was teaching. I was a PE teacher there.

01:13:47.159 --> 01:13:49.720
They said, you're going to continue your education

01:13:49.720 --> 01:13:52.479
or are you going to? And I said, I don't know.

01:13:52.560 --> 01:13:55.840
I really love martial arts and I'm doing it full

01:13:55.840 --> 01:13:59.720
time. And I think I might have an opportunity

01:13:59.720 --> 01:14:05.460
to actually fight, compete professionally in

01:14:05.460 --> 01:14:08.720
martial arts. So I left. That's when I left Palm

01:14:08.720 --> 01:14:11.739
Desert and I moved to L .A. to train. I started

01:14:11.739 --> 01:14:16.699
training full time with Yuri Nakamura. And the

01:14:16.699 --> 01:14:19.880
Gracies at that time, Hickson. And then later

01:14:19.880 --> 01:14:23.079
on in 94, I got kicked out of Hickson's because

01:14:23.079 --> 01:14:28.260
they fought in a bare knuckle fight. So Chad

01:14:28.260 --> 01:14:31.100
and I originally went up for this role. It was

01:14:31.100 --> 01:14:34.460
for a commercial. And they saw this is after

01:14:34.460 --> 01:14:38.899
Chad and I did Baywatch. I originally was a bartender.

01:14:39.880 --> 01:14:45.119
In 1990, I got asked if I wanted to go to. Venezuela

01:14:45.119 --> 01:14:50.359
to work on American Ninja 5, a blockbuster. That

01:14:50.359 --> 01:14:57.939
was a huge blockbuster. I was with David Bradley.

01:14:58.100 --> 01:15:01.000
David Bradley was the lead and I was his assistant

01:15:01.000 --> 01:15:04.239
and Spike Silver and Hubie Kearns, God rest his

01:15:04.239 --> 01:15:08.220
soul. And some of these stunt guys are all there.

01:15:08.399 --> 01:15:12.600
And I was just basically helping David out. And

01:15:12.600 --> 01:15:15.569
then I started doing stuff. stunt, a little bit

01:15:15.569 --> 01:15:18.369
of stunt, and then some fight scenes. I was one

01:15:18.369 --> 01:15:21.710
of the, I was a green blue, the only blue green

01:15:21.710 --> 01:15:26.090
ninja on the set. But Dave threw me and I went

01:15:26.090 --> 01:15:30.270
flying. I took the fall and I landed and dislocated

01:15:30.270 --> 01:15:33.649
my shoulder. But I was working with Tadashi Yamashita,

01:15:33.750 --> 01:15:38.869
James Liu, Spike, you know Spike Silver? I do

01:15:38.869 --> 01:15:42.920
not know. Mike was at the time he was Mel Gibson's

01:15:42.920 --> 01:15:48.079
stunt double and Hubie Kearns. He's man. He was

01:15:48.079 --> 01:15:50.500
great. Anyways, there was a lot of guys, but

01:15:50.500 --> 01:15:53.739
that was my beginning. And then I got back to

01:15:53.739 --> 01:15:56.220
the Academy. This is, this is in the beginning

01:15:56.220 --> 01:15:59.520
and Chad and Damon said, Hey, we kind of want

01:15:59.520 --> 01:16:01.899
to do the same thing. So Chad and Damon started

01:16:01.899 --> 01:16:07.000
doing stunts on Sundays or Saturdays or Sundays.

01:16:07.060 --> 01:16:10.460
They'd get together and we'd all, jump off buildings

01:16:10.460 --> 01:16:13.340
and we would film because Chad was going to USC

01:16:13.340 --> 01:16:17.300
for film school and Damon, Chad and I were best

01:16:17.300 --> 01:16:22.819
friends so we would do fight scenes and film

01:16:22.819 --> 01:16:25.960
a little bit of it. We would jump off the roof

01:16:25.960 --> 01:16:29.039
of the academy because Chad bought a three inch

01:16:29.039 --> 01:16:34.119
crash mat and I remember I drove up and it was

01:16:34.119 --> 01:16:38.130
like 9 a .m. The crash mat sitting in front of

01:16:38.130 --> 01:16:41.689
the door, pushed up against the flat brick wall

01:16:41.689 --> 01:16:44.949
and the ceiling was like 15 feet up. And he goes,

01:16:45.130 --> 01:16:48.310
do you have coffee this morning? I go, no. He

01:16:48.310 --> 01:16:50.510
goes, you don't need coffee. Come up here. So

01:16:50.510 --> 01:16:52.229
I got up there and he goes, watch this. We're

01:16:52.229 --> 01:16:54.310
going to do a flat back. So I go, oh, like this.

01:16:54.470 --> 01:16:56.109
And I just stood on the edge and I just went,

01:16:56.170 --> 01:17:00.229
I hit a flat back. Isn't that called a suicide

01:17:00.229 --> 01:17:06.689
also? Yes, I think so. And then so. I said, what

01:17:06.689 --> 01:17:09.090
else? And he goes, okay, well, you have a header.

01:17:09.930 --> 01:17:13.010
You go, and then you tuck at the last second.

01:17:13.430 --> 01:17:17.069
Just tuck. You land on your back. Header. And

01:17:17.069 --> 01:17:20.670
then, okay, no problem. He goes, wow. I go, it's

01:17:20.670 --> 01:17:23.210
timing. I go, I told you I was a gymnast and

01:17:23.210 --> 01:17:25.930
I was really good on the trampoline. So my timing

01:17:25.930 --> 01:17:30.350
on falling was obviously really good because

01:17:30.350 --> 01:17:33.529
of that. The trampoline was a secret. And then

01:17:33.529 --> 01:17:36.569
the last was a face -off. You fall and then you

01:17:36.569 --> 01:17:40.189
twist, half -twist, right? Yep. It's called face

01:17:40.189 --> 01:17:42.829
-off. So you have a header, a face -off, and

01:17:42.829 --> 01:17:46.470
then suicide. What else? Those are the only ones

01:17:46.470 --> 01:17:48.649
that I've done a header a few times and then

01:17:48.649 --> 01:17:50.609
a face -off. I did a pirate stunt show and that

01:17:50.609 --> 01:17:52.229
was the one I normally did for that. It was like

01:17:52.229 --> 01:17:55.510
a... 18 foot four like this you jump and you

01:17:55.510 --> 01:17:57.930
kick kick kick and you do a flat yeah it was

01:17:57.930 --> 01:17:59.470
like a sit fall is that what they call that one

01:17:59.470 --> 01:18:02.729
okay i think so but i'm not i'm not i'm not known

01:18:02.729 --> 01:18:05.430
for my aerial work so i was very kind of uh you

01:18:05.430 --> 01:18:08.590
know white belt one tag when it came to falls

01:18:08.590 --> 01:18:12.050
i think because of gymnastics it made me super

01:18:12.050 --> 01:18:16.619
ballsy so like chad bought a mini tramp And I

01:18:16.619 --> 01:18:18.840
ran and I hit a Barani right off the bat. And

01:18:18.840 --> 01:18:20.899
I hit a front tuck and then I did a half twist

01:18:20.899 --> 01:18:23.800
and then a back tuck. And he was like, where

01:18:23.800 --> 01:18:26.119
did you learn how to do that? And I go, I was

01:18:26.119 --> 01:18:29.159
a gymnast. So he goes, oh, went to the gymnastics

01:18:29.159 --> 01:18:33.500
studio. And then all of a sudden I jumped up

01:18:33.500 --> 01:18:35.039
on the high bar and I did a high bar routine.

01:18:35.859 --> 01:18:38.000
And front hip circle, back hip circle pitch.

01:18:38.159 --> 01:18:40.319
I didn't do a giant, but I pitched out and I

01:18:40.319 --> 01:18:44.119
did a fly away. And then Chad's like, he was

01:18:44.119 --> 01:18:47.399
so mad. He's like, damn, what did you learn how

01:18:47.399 --> 01:18:52.220
to do that? I was a gymnast. And so, hey, Chad,

01:18:52.439 --> 01:18:55.680
you want to go to gymnastics next week? He goes,

01:18:55.760 --> 01:18:59.060
no, I'm busy. Yeah, you're busy getting private

01:18:59.060 --> 01:19:02.640
lessons from your gymnastics coach. That's trying

01:19:02.640 --> 01:19:06.380
to get better than you. For one month. I didn't

01:19:06.380 --> 01:19:08.199
see Chad for a month. And I was like, Chad, what

01:19:08.199 --> 01:19:10.979
have you been doing? I don't see you because

01:19:10.979 --> 01:19:14.329
we always secretly did stuff. Like I would sneak

01:19:14.329 --> 01:19:17.510
off after shootout and guys would go eat and

01:19:17.510 --> 01:19:19.609
I'd sneak off and go train at Hickson's. I never

01:19:19.609 --> 01:19:23.770
told anybody. I would sneak off, go learn jujitsu.

01:19:24.170 --> 01:19:26.149
And then when I'd go to jujitsu, they'd always

01:19:26.149 --> 01:19:29.010
go, a couple of guys would keep asking me about

01:19:29.010 --> 01:19:32.270
the Inosano Academy. And I said, I don't want

01:19:32.270 --> 01:19:35.829
to talk because I want to be respectful. And

01:19:35.829 --> 01:19:37.689
they get really mad if you talk about any other

01:19:37.689 --> 01:19:40.069
martial arts here. If you don't just talk about

01:19:40.069 --> 01:19:43.010
jujitsu, they'll kick you out of here. Can you

01:19:43.010 --> 01:19:48.010
believe that? I remember Limon, this guy goes,

01:19:48.130 --> 01:19:50.750
hey, Eric, do you still do Savat and Kali and

01:19:50.750 --> 01:19:54.489
Silat and the Shudo stuff at the Unisano Academy?

01:19:54.810 --> 01:19:59.949
And I remember Limon Luis Herrera, he goes, it's

01:19:59.949 --> 01:20:02.350
only jujitsu here. If you don't speak, if you

01:20:02.350 --> 01:20:05.930
don't only just talk about jujitsu, you could

01:20:05.930 --> 01:20:09.289
leave. And I was like, I told you, dummy, we're

01:20:09.289 --> 01:20:11.670
going to get in trouble. Ask me later. Don't

01:20:11.670 --> 01:20:13.430
ask me while we're on the mat rolling around.

01:20:14.970 --> 01:20:18.789
And so, but I always send them students, always

01:20:18.789 --> 01:20:21.710
send students from the Inosano Academy because

01:20:21.710 --> 01:20:25.609
guys are like, hey, I heard you're training with

01:20:25.609 --> 01:20:28.050
the Graces. I go, yeah, I am. They go, oh, we're

01:20:28.050 --> 01:20:30.130
interested. I go, well, I'm training at Hickson's

01:20:30.130 --> 01:20:32.189
right now if you're interested to come over.

01:20:33.470 --> 01:20:37.859
And then I fought in a bare knuckle fight. And

01:20:37.859 --> 01:20:40.220
I got kicked out of Hickson's because all the

01:20:40.220 --> 01:20:43.399
students were talking. And next thing you know,

01:20:43.640 --> 01:20:48.199
I didn't have jujitsu for about a year and a

01:20:48.199 --> 01:20:51.600
half. And I was a bartender and Higa Machado

01:20:51.600 --> 01:20:54.659
came to my bar and he said, hey, how's your jujitsu

01:20:54.659 --> 01:20:58.399
coming along? And I go, it's non -existent. He

01:20:58.399 --> 01:21:01.359
goes, what do you mean? I go, I lost all my training

01:21:01.359 --> 01:21:05.170
partners. He goes, why? And I go, well. I got

01:21:05.170 --> 01:21:08.470
asked to leave Hickson's school. He goes, why?

01:21:09.090 --> 01:21:11.250
I go, because I fought in a stupid bare knuckle

01:21:11.250 --> 01:21:13.930
fight after I got approval, after I got permission.

01:21:14.930 --> 01:21:17.850
I got permission to do it. And then I will come

01:21:17.850 --> 01:21:19.689
back and they say, oh, you can't train with us

01:21:19.689 --> 01:21:22.550
anymore. I was like, but you said I could do

01:21:22.550 --> 01:21:24.789
it. And I even said I would take a bye if I had

01:21:24.789 --> 01:21:27.470
to fight Enzo. I only went up for the commercial.

01:21:27.569 --> 01:21:29.489
I wasn't even planning on fighting in that fight.

01:21:30.159 --> 01:21:32.600
I fought two fights back to back. I got my hair

01:21:32.600 --> 01:21:36.199
pulled for 18 minutes on national TV. Didn't

01:21:36.199 --> 01:21:39.800
even fight Henzo. Henzo and I talked after the

01:21:39.800 --> 01:21:43.460
fight. Everything was cool. I come back and I

01:21:43.460 --> 01:21:47.359
get kicked out of the school. I was so hurt because

01:21:47.359 --> 01:21:52.260
my friends were there. But more than that, I

01:21:52.260 --> 01:21:56.880
admired, well, I enjoyed training with the Gracies.

01:21:57.140 --> 01:22:01.289
It was a big deal to me. You know, at that time,

01:22:01.310 --> 01:22:06.090
especially. And then I idolized Hickson so much

01:22:06.090 --> 01:22:09.989
that I got him stunt work. I always asked, try

01:22:09.989 --> 01:22:12.130
to get a movie work. I tried to get him in the

01:22:12.130 --> 01:22:13.869
movies, get him stunts, get him commercials,

01:22:13.949 --> 01:22:20.710
always sending stuff. That and then also helped

01:22:20.710 --> 01:22:25.289
with Guru Dan signing and writing a nice letter

01:22:25.289 --> 01:22:27.630
so he could stay in the country for his green

01:22:27.630 --> 01:22:32.220
card. which was great. And I'm glad that he got

01:22:32.220 --> 01:22:37.199
to stay. And then the other was getting him fights

01:22:37.199 --> 01:22:40.439
in Japan. But I was trying to help him get it

01:22:40.439 --> 01:22:44.500
because I had a foot in with the stunts in Hollywood.

01:22:44.560 --> 01:22:46.739
And every time we get auditions and stuff or

01:22:46.739 --> 01:22:50.920
we hear movies, I would send stuff his way. And

01:22:50.920 --> 01:22:54.680
then the fighting, I was always asking him, Hickson,

01:22:54.760 --> 01:22:57.619
at that time, hey, would you like to fight in

01:22:57.619 --> 01:23:03.890
Japan? And they gave him two offers each year.

01:23:04.010 --> 01:23:07.409
First was a low offer. Second was a low offer.

01:23:08.609 --> 01:23:13.310
So it went 15 -15, no. 30 -30, no. Not enough.

01:23:14.569 --> 01:23:17.210
Because it was a tournament. And they go 50 -50.

01:23:17.810 --> 01:23:21.069
And he goes, I'll do it. And that's when he went

01:23:21.069 --> 01:23:23.510
into Japan. He beat everybody. Was that in Pride

01:23:23.510 --> 01:23:26.010
that he fought in that one? It was Shuto. It

01:23:26.010 --> 01:23:30.340
was Shuto, okay. He fought in that, and then

01:23:30.340 --> 01:23:34.060
he beat everybody. So then his price doubled

01:23:34.060 --> 01:23:36.739
because he beat everybody. So his price doubled,

01:23:36.779 --> 01:23:40.300
and he went into the next one. And then he beat

01:23:40.300 --> 01:23:43.460
everyone again. And then he said, okay, let's

01:23:43.460 --> 01:23:46.260
fight again. Once he beat two tournaments in

01:23:46.260 --> 01:23:50.100
a row, he beat everybody. Then his price, boom,

01:23:50.260 --> 01:23:56.119
exploded. I don't know the numbers 100 % for

01:23:56.119 --> 01:23:59.500
sure, but it went from like 100 and 100 to a

01:23:59.500 --> 01:24:02.420
mil and a mil and then two mil and two mil or

01:24:02.420 --> 01:24:04.279
something like that. I don't know. But it was

01:24:04.279 --> 01:24:07.260
a considerable jump. And because of the money

01:24:07.260 --> 01:24:14.939
difference, Chuteau no longer could sustain having

01:24:14.939 --> 01:24:17.779
him in a tournament because his price went up,

01:24:17.819 --> 01:24:21.739
as it should. You won two tournaments. You beat

01:24:21.739 --> 01:24:24.539
everyone in both your tournaments. Now you should

01:24:24.539 --> 01:24:26.560
have a prize fight. And it was perfect. That's

01:24:26.560 --> 01:24:28.979
the way it should work out. And you should make

01:24:28.979 --> 01:24:31.680
a million dollars doing a prize fight. And so

01:24:31.680 --> 01:24:33.859
it was a million and a million or whatever it

01:24:33.859 --> 01:24:36.739
was, something like that. Anyways, and sure enough,

01:24:36.880 --> 01:24:42.779
he beat him. So it was Takata. He beat Takata

01:24:42.779 --> 01:24:47.380
twice. He just said, hey, you guys can pay me.

01:24:47.930 --> 01:24:50.810
But all I'm doing is schooling this guy. I'm

01:24:50.810 --> 01:24:53.930
teaching him. He's getting better, but he's never

01:24:53.930 --> 01:24:56.649
going to beat me. You guys keep paying me and

01:24:56.649 --> 01:24:58.670
you think he's going to have another shot. That's

01:24:58.670 --> 01:25:02.170
why they gave him two chances. So they go give

01:25:02.170 --> 01:25:04.050
it. And then they're like, OK, who's your best

01:25:04.050 --> 01:25:09.270
here? So they brought out a guy, Funaki. You

01:25:09.270 --> 01:25:12.430
know who Funaki was? I did watch a lot of the

01:25:12.430 --> 01:25:15.239
other. the different Japanese martial arts back

01:25:15.239 --> 01:25:17.260
in the day. So probably by face, but the name

01:25:17.260 --> 01:25:20.119
doesn't ring a bell specifically. So Funaki,

01:25:20.140 --> 01:25:25.260
Funaki and Suzuki were gotch lineage catch wrestlers.

01:25:25.260 --> 01:25:28.779
And they started, those guys were the ones that

01:25:28.779 --> 01:25:33.479
started Pancrase. Okay. So there was a pro element.

01:25:33.619 --> 01:25:36.800
The pro element was still involved in, in the

01:25:36.800 --> 01:25:43.869
early stages of, of Pancrase. It's a Libra guy

01:25:43.869 --> 01:25:46.689
is like a shoot, like a shootout guy or shoot

01:25:46.689 --> 01:25:50.189
shooter because of striking the wrestling and

01:25:50.189 --> 01:25:52.670
then the ground and then the, the attention to

01:25:52.670 --> 01:25:56.649
leg locks. So you have shootout, you have rings,

01:25:56.789 --> 01:26:05.369
you have UWF, pancreas, and then pride. So shootout

01:26:05.369 --> 01:26:09.489
at that time was, was pretty much the only one

01:26:09.489 --> 01:26:13.979
that had all real fights. So what's the difference

01:26:13.979 --> 01:26:18.020
between a work? So you could have a match. Sometimes

01:26:18.020 --> 01:26:21.020
they have a work. A work is where it's kind of

01:26:21.020 --> 01:26:23.399
predetermined. Like this guy's going to win.

01:26:23.500 --> 01:26:25.739
You put somebody over. It's called putting somebody

01:26:25.739 --> 01:26:29.239
over. And so that whole thing came from the pro

01:26:29.239 --> 01:26:32.180
wrestling background. He's going to put him over.

01:26:34.300 --> 01:26:37.100
So that's what they would say. And what would

01:26:37.100 --> 01:26:40.859
happen is some of these fights. They had rope

01:26:40.859 --> 01:26:44.539
escape. Carl Gotch told Satoru Sayama, the founder

01:26:44.539 --> 01:26:49.279
of Shudo, Carl Gotch told him, he said, Sayama

01:26:49.279 --> 01:26:52.460
said, I want to have a real fight. I want to

01:26:52.460 --> 01:26:54.439
make it professional. I want to have a real fight.

01:26:55.079 --> 01:26:57.340
I want to have striking. I want to have throwing.

01:26:57.460 --> 01:27:01.079
I want to have submission. And Carl Gotch said,

01:27:01.140 --> 01:27:04.020
that will never go. It will never become popular.

01:27:04.659 --> 01:27:07.880
Pro wrestling, show wrestling is the way to go.

01:27:09.079 --> 01:27:11.159
That's where people, they want to see you develop

01:27:11.159 --> 01:27:16.279
fans. It's exciting and all that stuff. And so

01:27:16.279 --> 01:27:20.279
that's why Syama said, well, it was kind of almost

01:27:20.279 --> 01:27:24.779
a dare. And then he started shootout 1985. It

01:27:24.779 --> 01:27:28.659
was started in 82, 83. And then 85 was the first

01:27:28.659 --> 01:27:34.279
amateur. 84, 85 was the first amateur. 86, maybe

01:27:34.279 --> 01:27:39.000
85, 86 was the first amateur fights. Shudo had

01:27:39.000 --> 01:27:41.359
the most fights of all leagues in the world.

01:27:41.579 --> 01:27:44.380
They had the most because they had them all the

01:27:44.380 --> 01:27:48.340
time. And a lot of the fighters from Shudo were

01:27:48.340 --> 01:27:50.800
all super technical. They were strikers. They

01:27:50.800 --> 01:27:54.220
were wrestlers, judokas, zombies, and they were

01:27:54.220 --> 01:27:56.840
grapplers. They had no jiu -jitsu. They had no

01:27:56.840 --> 01:28:00.319
Brazilian jiu -jitsu back then. I actually got

01:28:00.319 --> 01:28:02.619
accused of teaching the Japanese jiu -jitsu.

01:28:03.050 --> 01:28:06.210
And I laughed. I said, why would I teach them

01:28:06.210 --> 01:28:10.989
what I'm using? I'm using Shudo because I needed

01:28:10.989 --> 01:28:13.409
to understand the attacks and the submissions

01:28:13.409 --> 01:28:18.310
from Shudo, which was predominant leg attacks

01:28:18.310 --> 01:28:23.930
and neck cranks. But there was no jujitsu over

01:28:23.930 --> 01:28:26.329
there. So for me, the transition and positioning

01:28:26.329 --> 01:28:33.920
of jujitsu helped me beat the Japanese. So you

01:28:33.920 --> 01:28:38.699
got five leagues. You got Shudo. You got rings.

01:28:38.859 --> 01:28:41.380
You got UWF. You got Pancrase. Then you have

01:28:41.380 --> 01:28:46.659
Pride. And they all had matches that were predetermined.

01:28:47.640 --> 01:28:50.960
They had rope escapes, some predetermined. They'd

01:28:50.960 --> 01:28:52.579
have a bunch of real fights, and then they would

01:28:52.579 --> 01:28:55.859
have one that was fake or that wasn't real or

01:28:55.859 --> 01:29:00.859
that was a shoot or it was a work. And the whole

01:29:00.859 --> 01:29:03.569
thing with these guys is they have fanfare. So

01:29:03.569 --> 01:29:09.310
all these guys got fans. And you got to keep

01:29:09.310 --> 01:29:11.890
going back to Japan. They love you. Win or lose,

01:29:12.270 --> 01:29:16.029
they love you. Shudo's mentality was different.

01:29:16.069 --> 01:29:21.569
It was small -minded. Here's a fighter. Shudo

01:29:21.569 --> 01:29:24.489
wanted to beat everybody to prove how powerful

01:29:24.489 --> 01:29:29.510
and strong Shudo was. They would invite the Dutch

01:29:29.510 --> 01:29:34.989
and Muay Thai, the Thai boxers in to fight. Wrestlers,

01:29:35.010 --> 01:29:37.630
they brought in these wrestlers to fight. They

01:29:37.630 --> 01:29:41.250
brought in a judo guy. They brought in another

01:29:41.250 --> 01:29:44.710
submission wrestling league. They brought in

01:29:44.710 --> 01:29:47.529
another organization, Pancration, which was Matt

01:29:47.529 --> 01:29:51.550
Hume's guys. So they're constantly bringing guys

01:29:51.550 --> 01:29:55.430
in to challenge, to beat, to pay them, and then

01:29:55.430 --> 01:29:59.569
never invite them back. And if you did that,

01:29:59.609 --> 01:30:02.609
like my friend Omar Bouish, he's from Sweden.

01:30:02.609 --> 01:30:05.770
He said, hey, I want to fight in Japan. I said,

01:30:05.810 --> 01:30:07.689
make me a demo tape. He made me a demo tape.

01:30:07.770 --> 01:30:11.770
He said, where should I go? And I go, he goes,

01:30:11.829 --> 01:30:14.369
should I go to Shudo or Pancrase? And I said,

01:30:14.409 --> 01:30:17.890
well, if you fight in Shudo and you do well,

01:30:18.050 --> 01:30:20.590
you'll be asked back. But if you fight in Japan

01:30:20.590 --> 01:30:23.850
and Shudo and you lose one time, you may never

01:30:23.850 --> 01:30:28.000
be asked back. So if you want to have a fight

01:30:28.000 --> 01:30:31.479
career and go to Japan regularly, I'd choose

01:30:31.479 --> 01:30:34.880
Pancrase. Because if you fight in Pancrase and

01:30:34.880 --> 01:30:37.819
you lose, they'll have you back a month later.

01:30:38.880 --> 01:30:41.159
And in Shudo, you're only fighting two times,

01:30:41.239 --> 01:30:45.239
three times a year at the most. So I steered

01:30:45.239 --> 01:30:48.460
a lot of guys to Pancrase because Shudo was,

01:30:48.579 --> 01:30:52.819
again, it was very tough. You fight, you lose.

01:30:52.880 --> 01:30:54.439
You fight, you lose. They don't want you back.

01:30:55.579 --> 01:30:57.579
They've already proved you suck. That's what

01:30:57.579 --> 01:30:59.279
their objective is. You don't suck. You just

01:30:59.279 --> 01:31:01.319
lost. You know what I'm saying? In their mind,

01:31:01.420 --> 01:31:05.439
yeah. So another thing that I wanted to ask you,

01:31:05.500 --> 01:31:08.000
I think it's a really interesting perspective

01:31:08.000 --> 01:31:11.000
that you have because you've been in this for

01:31:11.000 --> 01:31:13.460
so long and seen the kind of evolution and or

01:31:13.460 --> 01:31:15.579
devolution depending on the perspective. But

01:31:15.579 --> 01:31:20.020
in strength and conditioning, in the levels of

01:31:20.020 --> 01:31:23.810
combat, I've seen a kind of less is more. elements

01:31:23.810 --> 01:31:26.529
start to come out so rather than for example

01:31:26.529 --> 01:31:29.510
you know i trained in shoot box years ago and

01:31:29.510 --> 01:31:31.109
it was fight club i mean you know i'd leave there

01:31:31.109 --> 01:31:33.369
with concussions and broken noses and perforated

01:31:33.369 --> 01:31:35.850
eardrums and then couldn't train for x amount

01:31:35.850 --> 01:31:38.729
of time because you know i mean because of the

01:31:38.729 --> 01:31:42.550
the ripple effect what i see also i'm sorry say

01:31:42.550 --> 01:31:45.619
again That was the norm. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

01:31:45.880 --> 01:31:48.100
And especially out of that camp. So what I've

01:31:48.100 --> 01:31:50.939
seen, you know, moving forward is more and more

01:31:50.939 --> 01:31:54.439
discussion of lighter technical sparring, pad

01:31:54.439 --> 01:31:57.500
work, bag work, and saving that all out kind

01:31:57.500 --> 01:31:59.880
of, you know, fight for the cage, for the ring.

01:32:00.060 --> 01:32:02.640
So through your perspective, what have you seen

01:32:02.640 --> 01:32:06.659
as far as that level of contact versus what is

01:32:06.659 --> 01:32:08.539
there now? And maybe, you know, are you seeing

01:32:08.539 --> 01:32:11.239
even more effectiveness from this less is more

01:32:11.239 --> 01:32:17.779
philosophy? So timing sparring is invaluable.

01:32:19.500 --> 01:32:22.699
Usually the guys that are new or that aren't

01:32:22.699 --> 01:32:25.539
very good are the ones that go really hard. The

01:32:25.539 --> 01:32:27.260
guys that are really good, you'd never know how

01:32:27.260 --> 01:32:28.840
good they were because they don't go that hard.

01:32:29.640 --> 01:32:33.960
And especially during training or practice. But

01:32:33.960 --> 01:32:37.300
timing sparring, just so you have your timing

01:32:37.300 --> 01:32:39.119
down, you can timing spar every day. You can

01:32:39.119 --> 01:32:41.500
timing spar for a half hour straight without

01:32:41.500 --> 01:32:44.340
getting tired. The second you start pushing yourself

01:32:44.340 --> 01:32:47.340
really hard and you bang hard, then everything

01:32:47.340 --> 01:32:50.760
changes. Your critical thinking, your thought

01:32:50.760 --> 01:32:54.899
process, your reaction time, your emotions become

01:32:54.899 --> 01:32:59.920
involved. Your ego steps in. So it is good to

01:32:59.920 --> 01:33:03.699
bang. Some people like to just bang once a week.

01:33:03.979 --> 01:33:07.779
And then some people, they timing spar. So what

01:33:07.779 --> 01:33:11.720
we do is we break our stuff down. So we wrestle.

01:33:12.560 --> 01:33:15.539
We roll for submission. We do ground and pound.

01:33:16.100 --> 01:33:19.560
We do get -ups. We do cage work, wall walking,

01:33:19.760 --> 01:33:22.779
getting up, preventing the takedown, not allowing

01:33:22.779 --> 01:33:26.460
someone, and getting back up. And then we do

01:33:26.460 --> 01:33:29.359
boxing sparring, kickboxing sparring, clinch

01:33:29.359 --> 01:33:32.159
sparring. We pull it apart to get better at each

01:33:32.159 --> 01:33:34.720
aspect, and then we put it back together. When

01:33:34.720 --> 01:33:38.460
you put it back together, the MMA sparring is

01:33:38.460 --> 01:33:43.340
for all -around timing, reaction. development

01:33:43.340 --> 01:33:47.180
of your game strategy and tactics, your skill

01:33:47.180 --> 01:33:50.140
sets, what you're strong at, what you're weak

01:33:50.140 --> 01:33:53.300
at. But that's how you're technically going to

01:33:53.300 --> 01:33:56.579
get better. And it's very difficult to do that

01:33:56.579 --> 01:33:59.239
when you're banging hard every day. And also

01:33:59.239 --> 01:34:02.840
banging hard every day. We used to spar so hard

01:34:02.840 --> 01:34:07.560
that we had guys that wouldn't, like, let's say,

01:34:07.640 --> 01:34:10.760
well, so we had a few guys that would come in

01:34:10.760 --> 01:34:13.590
and, they would complain that they're not sleeping

01:34:13.590 --> 01:34:17.310
very well or they don't sleep at all or they're

01:34:17.310 --> 01:34:21.229
only sleeping an hour or two. And that's overtraining.

01:34:21.369 --> 01:34:23.489
You're overtraining and you're also getting hit

01:34:23.489 --> 01:34:26.670
in the head too much. So you might have a concussion

01:34:26.670 --> 01:34:30.170
that's just like a reoccurring concussion that's

01:34:30.170 --> 01:34:32.970
preventing you from sleeping. And then they tell

01:34:32.970 --> 01:34:35.470
me they have vertigo. I said, you have a concussion.

01:34:36.630 --> 01:34:40.159
And then the CTE, I don't even know. you know

01:34:40.159 --> 01:34:45.140
like like what constitutes the the name or uh

01:34:45.140 --> 01:34:48.000
or how you can even identify that you've got

01:34:48.000 --> 01:34:52.800
a traumatic brain injury you know uh and and

01:34:52.800 --> 01:34:56.699
the thing is is here look at it like this uh

01:34:56.699 --> 01:34:59.260
i had some friends that were in the stunt industry

01:34:59.260 --> 01:35:02.640
and they were getting ready for a film and in

01:35:02.640 --> 01:35:04.520
order for them to get ready for the film they

01:35:04.520 --> 01:35:07.579
had to do judo and aikido every day and they

01:35:07.579 --> 01:35:09.939
had to get slammed they're stunt guys so you

01:35:09.939 --> 01:35:12.140
got to get slammed over and over and over and

01:35:12.140 --> 01:35:14.920
over when you get slammed on the mat like that

01:35:14.920 --> 01:35:18.579
you get a concussion it might be mild but your

01:35:18.579 --> 01:35:21.119
body's not used to that impact where you're you're

01:35:21.119 --> 01:35:23.260
landing on your back you're landing on your side

01:35:23.260 --> 01:35:25.600
but you're hitting the ground hard and you do

01:35:25.600 --> 01:35:29.520
it you know 30 to 50 times a day that's a lot

01:35:29.520 --> 01:35:33.520
it's the same thing so the constant slamming

01:35:33.520 --> 01:35:39.010
the constant head trauma Like I said, you can

01:35:39.010 --> 01:35:41.630
timing spar, but there's also something we call

01:35:41.630 --> 01:35:44.970
pressure testing. And that's a big secret. Our

01:35:44.970 --> 01:35:48.170
pressure testing. So if you got a fight two weeks

01:35:48.170 --> 01:35:51.210
out of your fight, you get pressure tested. It's

01:35:51.210 --> 01:35:54.789
extremely important because what we do is we

01:35:54.789 --> 01:35:57.670
put you in, let's say you got a three, five minute

01:35:57.670 --> 01:36:01.670
round fight. So sometimes we'll put you in for

01:36:01.670 --> 01:36:05.289
four or five minute rounds or five six minute

01:36:05.289 --> 01:36:07.569
rounds. We might change it to a, so you just

01:36:07.569 --> 01:36:09.930
have an extra minute or just five minutes, but

01:36:09.930 --> 01:36:13.310
you get a fresh person. You get a fresh person

01:36:13.310 --> 01:36:17.350
every two minutes, a minute and a half to two

01:36:17.350 --> 01:36:19.750
minutes. You got a fresh person and you get three

01:36:19.750 --> 01:36:23.130
persons per round. So in one round, your five

01:36:23.130 --> 01:36:26.369
minute fight, you got three guys back to back

01:36:26.369 --> 01:36:31.010
switch, switch, switch, and they each have your

01:36:31.010 --> 01:36:35.720
opponent's style. So, okay, we're fighting a

01:36:35.720 --> 01:36:38.020
striker. The guy's notorious for his head kicks.

01:36:38.859 --> 01:36:41.300
So, you know, you get a couple guys come out

01:36:41.300 --> 01:36:43.420
and they grapple, but then you got a guy that

01:36:43.420 --> 01:36:45.319
all he's doing is just throwing the head kicks.

01:36:45.340 --> 01:36:47.439
So you get used to that. But the pressure test

01:36:47.439 --> 01:36:51.100
is kind of the secret to what's the secret to

01:36:51.100 --> 01:36:52.979
our success. What's the secret to my success

01:36:52.979 --> 01:36:56.479
when I fought in Japan was the pressure test.

01:36:56.539 --> 01:37:01.619
I always had a pressure test a week. a week before

01:37:01.619 --> 01:37:04.000
not a week but a week or two weeks before you

01:37:04.000 --> 01:37:07.539
have a hard pressure test and it's and that is

01:37:07.539 --> 01:37:09.659
something that i think that you could supplement

01:37:09.659 --> 01:37:13.399
the super hard banging for is with the hard pressure

01:37:13.399 --> 01:37:15.500
test that doesn't mean you're getting your your

01:37:15.500 --> 01:37:18.119
butt beat it just means you've got a fresh guy

01:37:18.119 --> 01:37:21.220
so when you spar around with one person five

01:37:21.220 --> 01:37:24.199
minutes you can gain momentum on that person

01:37:24.199 --> 01:37:26.340
because you might hit them in the liver you might

01:37:26.340 --> 01:37:29.930
get a good shot off on them And his energy levels

01:37:29.930 --> 01:37:32.609
are going to slowly decrease. But when you get

01:37:32.609 --> 01:37:35.569
a fresh guy, when that guy gets tired, here comes

01:37:35.569 --> 01:37:39.369
a fresh guy and another fresh one. That's tough.

01:37:39.590 --> 01:37:42.109
And I think that would be a good supplement to

01:37:42.109 --> 01:37:46.409
the hard banging aspect. Absolutely. Now, with

01:37:46.409 --> 01:37:49.550
you, as you said, you train people in the law

01:37:49.550 --> 01:37:51.329
enforcement community and the special operations

01:37:51.329 --> 01:37:53.590
community, but obviously a lot of actual professional

01:37:53.590 --> 01:37:59.060
firefighters. Have you seen a common denominator

01:37:59.060 --> 01:38:02.119
in the kind of person that ends up being a very,

01:38:02.159 --> 01:38:04.300
very successful fighter? When I pose this to

01:38:04.300 --> 01:38:08.039
the SEAL community, for example, there's no physical

01:38:08.039 --> 01:38:10.279
shape or size, but there's definitely a kind

01:38:10.279 --> 01:38:13.420
of mindset that allows them not to ring the bell

01:38:13.420 --> 01:38:18.180
when so many people do through attrition. Everyone's

01:38:18.180 --> 01:38:20.939
different. You pick guys that are completely

01:38:20.939 --> 01:38:26.560
athletically in great shape, and they... trained

01:38:26.560 --> 01:38:30.159
super weak their their uh work ethic is horrible

01:38:30.159 --> 01:38:33.720
because they're so naturally gifted then you

01:38:33.720 --> 01:38:37.180
get some guys that are kind of out of shape and

01:38:37.180 --> 01:38:40.819
uh all the they come in and you're like i don't

01:38:40.819 --> 01:38:42.539
know how far this guy and all of a sudden you

01:38:42.539 --> 01:38:46.239
go holy crap this guy's he doesn't give up he

01:38:46.239 --> 01:38:48.359
shows up every day he's got a great attitude

01:38:48.359 --> 01:38:51.100
and he trains really hard because he wants to

01:38:51.100 --> 01:38:53.500
get better and he wants to change his body he

01:38:53.500 --> 01:38:57.229
wants to become more athletic So sometimes you

01:38:57.229 --> 01:39:00.310
get athletes that just take it easy and they

01:39:00.310 --> 01:39:02.069
don't push themselves as much as they possibly

01:39:02.069 --> 01:39:07.670
can. So one of the secrets, I think, to find

01:39:07.670 --> 01:39:11.609
out how great you could be is by competing. And

01:39:11.609 --> 01:39:15.250
so when you're going to fight and you have off

01:39:15.250 --> 01:39:17.850
time, maybe go do a jujitsu tournament or a nogi

01:39:17.850 --> 01:39:20.390
tournament or a wrestling tournament or a judo

01:39:20.390 --> 01:39:23.949
tournament or a kickboxing match or maybe a boxing

01:39:23.949 --> 01:39:26.789
match. So you're constantly in the competition

01:39:26.789 --> 01:39:30.789
mindset. So you're pushing yourself, not just

01:39:30.789 --> 01:39:33.250
in class, but I'm talking where you're actually

01:39:33.250 --> 01:39:36.149
going against people that are not your peers

01:39:36.149 --> 01:39:40.090
and that are going to come after you. Now, I

01:39:40.090 --> 01:39:42.609
had Greg Jackson on the show. One of the comments

01:39:42.609 --> 01:39:45.189
that he made, and I've seen this as a spectator

01:39:45.189 --> 01:39:49.270
watching it, you have two types of people in,

01:39:49.350 --> 01:39:53.420
for example, the UFC. You have... and then you

01:39:53.420 --> 01:39:56.579
have martial artists. And he had a lot of respect

01:39:56.579 --> 01:39:59.079
for people like Georges St -Pierre, who obviously

01:39:59.079 --> 01:40:01.899
ended up being a great, great fighter, but through

01:40:01.899 --> 01:40:03.960
the kind of martial journey, he had all the other

01:40:03.960 --> 01:40:06.279
elements of that too. What's your perspective

01:40:06.279 --> 01:40:07.840
on that, of all the fighters that you've had

01:40:07.840 --> 01:40:13.100
around yourself? You're right. So a lot of guys

01:40:13.100 --> 01:40:15.819
are not martial artists. They've never learned

01:40:15.819 --> 01:40:21.560
martial arts. They don't know the respect factor.

01:40:22.119 --> 01:40:24.079
They just come in and they want to learn. They

01:40:24.079 --> 01:40:27.039
want to fight. And they just get really good

01:40:27.039 --> 01:40:30.119
at fighting. And I said, it's great that you

01:40:30.119 --> 01:40:32.659
guys get really good at fighting and you can

01:40:32.659 --> 01:40:35.359
go in and learn and get better. I said, but in

01:40:35.359 --> 01:40:38.300
your off time, you actually need to learn a little

01:40:38.300 --> 01:40:40.899
bit more than just, you know, put the gloves

01:40:40.899 --> 01:40:43.000
on and banging because you're going to deal with

01:40:43.000 --> 01:40:45.399
people that are going to have tricks and skill

01:40:45.399 --> 01:40:48.399
sets that you do not have or know about or own,

01:40:48.500 --> 01:40:52.520
which are like tricks. You want to become as

01:40:52.520 --> 01:40:55.300
great of an athlete as you possibly can by getting

01:40:55.300 --> 01:40:59.140
in shape, your strength, your conditioning, and

01:40:59.140 --> 01:41:02.840
then your technical prowess through learning

01:41:02.840 --> 01:41:08.239
martial arts. And then when it's time for you

01:41:08.239 --> 01:41:11.159
to be in camp, you're the fighter. But then when

01:41:11.159 --> 01:41:13.079
you're not the fighter, you should be learning

01:41:13.079 --> 01:41:15.180
martial arts again. You should go back and become

01:41:15.180 --> 01:41:18.729
the student, take classes, sit in class. silently

01:41:18.729 --> 01:41:23.229
and don't say, I'm a fighter. No, I'm a student.

01:41:23.229 --> 01:41:26.789
Now I want to be a sponge and learn as much as

01:41:26.789 --> 01:41:29.470
possible. I think both aspects are important.

01:41:30.029 --> 01:41:32.229
And then you get some guys that are martial artists

01:41:32.229 --> 01:41:34.409
and they just can't turn it on and they don't

01:41:34.409 --> 01:41:36.689
want to compete. And then they can't deal with

01:41:36.689 --> 01:41:39.170
loss so they don't compete just in case they

01:41:39.170 --> 01:41:40.850
might lose because they don't think they can

01:41:40.850 --> 01:41:43.529
handle it. Maybe their ego can't handle it. And

01:41:43.529 --> 01:41:45.470
some people have high opinions of themselves

01:41:45.470 --> 01:41:48.789
and they couldn't handle losing. And I have had

01:41:48.789 --> 01:41:54.130
that one too. So, those are a few factors. Right.

01:41:54.170 --> 01:41:56.909
Now, what about the older athletes? So, we talked

01:41:56.909 --> 01:41:59.970
about competition. Right now, I'm rehabbing basically

01:41:59.970 --> 01:42:02.489
my niece. And I found a new program by a guy

01:42:02.489 --> 01:42:04.229
called Ben Pratt. Patrick is working really,

01:42:04.329 --> 01:42:07.659
really well. But I'm having the kind of… undo

01:42:07.659 --> 01:42:10.119
the injuries of being a firefighter increase

01:42:10.119 --> 01:42:13.399
my mobility so I'm in the jiu -jitsu gym now

01:42:13.399 --> 01:42:15.600
and there's a lot of talk of competition it's

01:42:15.600 --> 01:42:18.939
a competitive gym and you know at the moment

01:42:18.939 --> 01:42:20.939
I'm like no because I know my body and I know

01:42:20.939 --> 01:42:22.779
that I need to be a certain level especially

01:42:22.779 --> 01:42:24.840
as I just got a blue belt so I'm in a brand new

01:42:24.840 --> 01:42:27.260
bracket now at the very very bottom of the bucket

01:42:27.260 --> 01:42:32.180
thank you so what is your perspective on older

01:42:32.180 --> 01:42:36.539
athletes like how how do they gate it down but

01:42:36.539 --> 01:42:39.619
still have that competitive element, you know,

01:42:39.640 --> 01:42:41.920
because I think one of the fear for me, I've

01:42:41.920 --> 01:42:44.520
had no problem losing. That's all my ego is good

01:42:44.520 --> 01:42:46.500
with that. I just don't want to, you know, break

01:42:46.500 --> 01:42:50.239
my arm in the process or rip a shoulder with

01:42:50.239 --> 01:42:53.500
some, you know, uber enthusiastic UFC wannabe

01:42:53.500 --> 01:42:58.859
18 year old that I'm pitted against. What I do

01:42:58.859 --> 01:43:01.539
is when you get older, you have to be more selective

01:43:01.539 --> 01:43:03.979
with the people that you decide to roll with.

01:43:05.060 --> 01:43:09.260
because you're in it for the longer haul, especially

01:43:09.260 --> 01:43:12.220
being older. So you don't want to end your career

01:43:12.220 --> 01:43:14.800
right away by just getting an injury from, again,

01:43:14.859 --> 01:43:17.300
a young athlete that's going to come after you.

01:43:17.800 --> 01:43:22.000
So you could either talk to people and say, I

01:43:22.000 --> 01:43:25.600
want to roll, but I have to be careful. I have

01:43:25.600 --> 01:43:28.479
a couple injuries. But a lot of people do that.

01:43:28.989 --> 01:43:31.470
And then they go completely berserk and go crazy.

01:43:31.989 --> 01:43:34.029
Hey, let's roll light. Then you roll light and

01:43:34.029 --> 01:43:35.909
then they go crazy. And then they trick you and

01:43:35.909 --> 01:43:38.550
you're like, oh, hold on a second. That's not

01:43:38.550 --> 01:43:42.550
light. So I think being selective, I think being

01:43:42.550 --> 01:43:45.630
selective with your training partners, more selective

01:43:45.630 --> 01:43:48.470
than just grabbing someone randomly and rolling

01:43:48.470 --> 01:43:51.789
with them. And that's a big factor. You just

01:43:51.789 --> 01:43:55.409
have to be smarter with your training partners.

01:43:56.039 --> 01:43:57.819
And what about the competition element? Do you

01:43:57.819 --> 01:44:01.000
recommend that older athletes compete the same

01:44:01.000 --> 01:44:03.420
way as you would a younger, you know, not yet

01:44:03.420 --> 01:44:07.420
broken athlete? Yeah, what we do is we do, so

01:44:07.420 --> 01:44:12.920
we have a competition class. And for the normal

01:44:12.920 --> 01:44:17.859
person, let's say blue, purple, blue and purple

01:44:17.859 --> 01:44:21.600
belts, they have to roll for 30 straight minutes.

01:44:22.439 --> 01:44:25.899
You have a new person every five minutes. And

01:44:25.899 --> 01:44:27.579
again, you could be selective with who you're

01:44:27.579 --> 01:44:30.300
putting in there or who you're going up against.

01:44:31.000 --> 01:44:33.939
And then for Brown and Black Belt, it's 40 minutes.

01:44:34.000 --> 01:44:36.260
It's 40 straight minutes of roll time. That's

01:44:36.260 --> 01:44:39.680
your competition level that you should be rolling

01:44:39.680 --> 01:44:42.579
with. So you're rolling for 40 straight minutes.

01:44:42.659 --> 01:44:45.579
Every five minutes, you got a new person and

01:44:45.579 --> 01:44:47.260
you got to try to go for 40 straight minutes.

01:44:47.460 --> 01:44:49.659
That's tough. That's a tough one. Or get a minute

01:44:49.659 --> 01:44:51.579
break, you know, take a minute break between

01:44:51.579 --> 01:44:54.479
each round, but, you know, get eight rounds in.

01:44:54.810 --> 01:44:58.170
At five minutes. So you've got eight fives or

01:44:58.170 --> 01:45:02.430
even five fives. I tell people, if you want to

01:45:02.430 --> 01:45:06.250
go in a competition class, just go in there and

01:45:06.250 --> 01:45:10.590
see if you can do 20 minutes. 20 minutes is four

01:45:10.590 --> 01:45:13.510
five -minute rounds of rolling. Just start with

01:45:13.510 --> 01:45:16.689
that. See if you can do that. And if you can't

01:45:16.689 --> 01:45:19.489
do that, then you need to start running or swimming

01:45:19.489 --> 01:45:24.860
or biking. You need to get your cardio up. And

01:45:24.860 --> 01:45:27.560
it's funny, I just saw this. I posted this thing.

01:45:27.619 --> 01:45:29.460
I sent it to my friends and it was about this

01:45:29.460 --> 01:45:32.279
girl. She goes, if you're having any mental problems,

01:45:32.319 --> 01:45:35.859
go running. Because that way you'll figure out

01:45:35.859 --> 01:45:38.880
that you're completely physically out of shape

01:45:38.880 --> 01:45:41.140
and you'll forget about your mind. You'll forget

01:45:41.140 --> 01:45:44.439
about all your problems. Which is kind of true

01:45:44.439 --> 01:45:48.119
because to me, running is moving meditation.

01:45:48.939 --> 01:45:51.859
I used to put a headset on and I would hit the

01:45:51.859 --> 01:45:55.670
road. And I lived in a neighborhood of hills.

01:45:55.989 --> 01:45:58.390
So I'd run up and down these hills all the time

01:45:58.390 --> 01:46:01.569
with a headset on. It was the nicest thing ever.

01:46:02.189 --> 01:46:04.569
And the thing is, is you can't cheat when you

01:46:04.569 --> 01:46:07.409
run. I mean, you could stop and you could walk,

01:46:07.569 --> 01:46:11.090
you know, you could stride slower, but you can't

01:46:11.090 --> 01:46:14.289
cheat. You really can't cheat. Like when you're

01:46:14.289 --> 01:46:16.289
hitting tie pads, you could coast a little bit.

01:46:16.590 --> 01:46:18.869
When you're sparring, you can go really hard.

01:46:18.949 --> 01:46:21.670
Then you can just move around and defend. So

01:46:21.670 --> 01:46:23.689
you can take your time. When you're running,

01:46:23.850 --> 01:46:25.949
well, Thai pads, you can't really cheat, but

01:46:25.949 --> 01:46:27.750
you could coast a little bit and go a little

01:46:27.750 --> 01:46:31.689
lighter. As far as running, you can't cheat running.

01:46:32.550 --> 01:46:35.890
But it's moving meditation. And I think you can

01:46:35.890 --> 01:46:40.649
work through a lot of stuff with just your mindset

01:46:40.649 --> 01:46:45.890
as you're running. I think it helps 100%. I used

01:46:45.890 --> 01:46:48.649
to swim. I used to rollerblade. I used to bike.

01:46:49.149 --> 01:46:52.180
And I used to run. because i had a torn meniscus

01:46:52.180 --> 01:46:56.079
that i never fixed i used to do all those and

01:46:56.079 --> 01:46:58.859
one of my training partners used to laugh at

01:46:58.859 --> 01:47:00.979
me because my knee would freeze at the two mile

01:47:00.979 --> 01:47:03.619
mark and he goes you just can't run any farther

01:47:03.619 --> 01:47:05.619
than two miles i don't know my legs actually

01:47:05.619 --> 01:47:10.359
freezing because my meniscus is is torn and never

01:47:10.359 --> 01:47:13.539
fixed it and it freezes up at about it start

01:47:13.539 --> 01:47:16.739
my leg starts locking up at about two miles So

01:47:16.739 --> 01:47:18.800
I said, there's other things that I could do

01:47:18.800 --> 01:47:22.399
that are just as valuable. And he said, like

01:47:22.399 --> 01:47:25.119
what? I go, rollerblade. And he got mad at me.

01:47:25.140 --> 01:47:27.939
He goes, rollerblade. And that's easy. There's

01:47:27.939 --> 01:47:31.619
no effort that goes into that. And I have speed

01:47:31.619 --> 01:47:34.239
skates. And I would get down really low and I

01:47:34.239 --> 01:47:38.020
would sprint on my skates. It's a hard workout.

01:47:38.239 --> 01:47:41.939
And it busts your legs and your butt. So rollerblade,

01:47:42.020 --> 01:47:44.039
he does it. And I realized the reason he said

01:47:44.039 --> 01:47:46.340
that was because he couldn't rollerblade. So

01:47:46.340 --> 01:47:49.260
he said, yeah, if you can't run, you're a puss.

01:47:49.460 --> 01:47:52.359
And I said, no. I'm going to rollerblade. I'm

01:47:52.359 --> 01:47:54.239
going to go to the pool. I'm going to do laps

01:47:54.239 --> 01:48:00.100
in the pool. Even to my last fight, I swam right

01:48:00.100 --> 01:48:02.340
before my fight. I was doing wall -to -wall underground

01:48:02.340 --> 01:48:05.920
breath holds. So I would go from one wall to

01:48:05.920 --> 01:48:07.739
the other and make it back to the other wall.

01:48:08.020 --> 01:48:10.680
Underwater breath holds. And I'll tell you something.

01:48:11.960 --> 01:48:15.020
I was dieting. Because I had to lose 15 pounds

01:48:15.020 --> 01:48:19.800
in four days. And I don't like to do it with

01:48:19.800 --> 01:48:22.960
the sauna. I run. I get on the road the first

01:48:22.960 --> 01:48:25.239
thing in the morning and I run. No matter what,

01:48:25.340 --> 01:48:28.199
I go out and run. I had a broken ankle. I taped

01:48:28.199 --> 01:48:31.800
my ankle. I ran three miles. And then I was at

01:48:31.800 --> 01:48:35.239
the pool doing laps in the pool. You swim. You

01:48:35.239 --> 01:48:38.960
do crawl strokes. Then you do leg kicks with

01:48:38.960 --> 01:48:42.180
the board. And then you put a buoy between your

01:48:42.180 --> 01:48:45.119
legs. You do all your crawl strokes, kickboard

01:48:45.119 --> 01:48:48.380
with the legs. And then after that, I would do

01:48:48.380 --> 01:48:51.020
breast strokes and crawl strokes from wall to

01:48:51.020 --> 01:48:54.779
wall. And then I do underwater wall to wall holds.

01:48:54.899 --> 01:48:58.859
And then I run in the pool. So I run for resistance

01:48:58.859 --> 01:49:02.399
wall to wall. I go forward, back, side, left,

01:49:02.539 --> 01:49:07.180
side, right. The pool is amazing. For your body,

01:49:07.340 --> 01:49:10.000
especially when you're older, it helps your knees

01:49:10.000 --> 01:49:15.539
stay strong. So I really love that. And then

01:49:15.539 --> 01:49:18.760
also the Aerodyne. You can't ever beat an Aerodyne.

01:49:18.939 --> 01:49:22.380
Aerodyne bike is the best bike for fartleks and

01:49:22.380 --> 01:49:27.619
sprints. And you do 30 seconds on, 30 seconds

01:49:27.619 --> 01:49:29.300
off for five straight minutes. That's a good

01:49:29.300 --> 01:49:33.710
workout. It's a horrible workout. Before it licks

01:49:33.710 --> 01:49:36.430
with that, do you have an aerodyne? We do, yeah.

01:49:36.529 --> 01:49:38.310
So I coached at a CrossFit gym, and they got

01:49:38.310 --> 01:49:42.430
several. They call it Satan's Chariot. Oh, exactly.

01:49:43.369 --> 01:49:46.029
That thing's great. And, you know, the design

01:49:46.029 --> 01:49:49.430
really hasn't changed for countless years. I

01:49:49.430 --> 01:49:50.829
mean, they've made it a little bit better now,

01:49:50.949 --> 01:49:54.829
but. Yeah, I mean, you can literally 60 seconds,

01:49:54.869 --> 01:49:57.329
and you can be falling off the damn thing. So

01:49:57.329 --> 01:50:00.670
the all -over body effect is mind -blowing, really.

01:50:01.289 --> 01:50:05.390
And the rowing machine too. The VersaClimber

01:50:05.390 --> 01:50:07.890
is the hardest. That's why it's the least used

01:50:07.890 --> 01:50:11.670
piece of equipment in your gym. If you have a

01:50:11.670 --> 01:50:15.789
VersaClimber, it'll have dust on it. Guys, they

01:50:15.789 --> 01:50:18.310
don't want to use that thing. That's a tough

01:50:18.310 --> 01:50:20.949
one. But the rowing machine is just as hard too.

01:50:22.069 --> 01:50:23.970
If you know how to use it. Yeah, absolutely.

01:50:24.489 --> 01:50:26.649
Basically, if you're doing it right, it's almost

01:50:26.649 --> 01:50:30.289
a clean every single time you're pulling. Guys

01:50:30.289 --> 01:50:33.829
were laughing at me because I would mix my cardio

01:50:33.829 --> 01:50:40.489
up. I would go on. I do the 10. So I would jog

01:50:40.489 --> 01:50:43.090
on the treadmill. Then I'd run on the treadmill.

01:50:43.390 --> 01:50:45.729
And then I hit the bike. And there was two different

01:50:45.729 --> 01:50:49.149
types of bikes. One where you sat over and one

01:50:49.149 --> 01:50:51.630
where you sat back. So one was more for your

01:50:51.630 --> 01:50:54.369
legs and the other was for your whole body. And

01:50:54.369 --> 01:50:58.090
then I'd get on the recumbent hand bike. Those

01:50:58.090 --> 01:51:00.609
things are great for boxing. Have you seen those?

01:51:00.869 --> 01:51:02.630
Yeah, yeah. They use them a lot in rehab and

01:51:02.630 --> 01:51:04.949
when people are hurt. It's a way of keeping them

01:51:04.949 --> 01:51:08.770
moving. But you don't need it. Fighters should

01:51:08.770 --> 01:51:11.189
use those because it's great for boxing. It's

01:51:11.189 --> 01:51:14.850
like a speed bag, but you have resistance. So

01:51:14.850 --> 01:51:18.850
you have the recumbent, and then you have whatever,

01:51:19.010 --> 01:51:21.350
the VersaClimber, the rowing machine. So I would

01:51:21.350 --> 01:51:23.710
mix my cardio up, and everyone would laugh at

01:51:23.710 --> 01:51:25.250
me. They'd go, how come you don't just do 40

01:51:25.250 --> 01:51:28.199
minutes of this? I'd go. I kind of get bored.

01:51:29.399 --> 01:51:33.119
For 40 minutes, my biggest thing is fighting

01:51:33.119 --> 01:51:36.220
my brain as I'm on the treadmill running for

01:51:36.220 --> 01:51:38.279
40 straight minutes, which is a hamster track.

01:51:38.920 --> 01:51:41.699
And if you do two miles on the treadmill, it's

01:51:41.699 --> 01:51:44.899
equivalent to one mile on the road. And people

01:51:44.899 --> 01:51:48.060
would argue with me, and I said, go run a mile

01:51:48.060 --> 01:51:51.159
and see how you feel, and then go on the treadmill

01:51:51.159 --> 01:51:55.140
for two miles and see if it matches, and it's

01:51:55.140 --> 01:51:57.560
almost the same. Yeah. No, I mean, it makes sense

01:51:57.560 --> 01:51:59.020
because, I mean, if you pick your legs up, the

01:51:59.020 --> 01:52:00.880
road's moving regardless. So you're really just

01:52:00.880 --> 01:52:04.239
trying to stay, you know, at pace with the belt

01:52:04.239 --> 01:52:07.619
rather than propelling yourself forward. That's

01:52:07.619 --> 01:52:10.359
right. And one of my favorite exercises is called

01:52:10.359 --> 01:52:14.180
the 10 -10 -10 or 10 to the fourth power. So

01:52:14.180 --> 01:52:19.619
you put the treadmill at inclination of 10, speed

01:52:19.619 --> 01:52:23.510
of 10. And then you jump on it and you sprint

01:52:23.510 --> 01:52:26.350
as fast as you can for 10 seconds. And then you

01:52:26.350 --> 01:52:29.670
jump off it. You take a 30 second break and then

01:52:29.670 --> 01:52:33.289
you jump on it. You do 10 of those. So 10 to

01:52:33.289 --> 01:52:37.369
the fourth power, inclination of 10, speed of

01:52:37.369 --> 01:52:43.210
10, run for 10 seconds and you do 10 sets. Have

01:52:43.210 --> 01:52:44.890
you ever tried that one? No, that sounds old.

01:52:44.970 --> 01:52:48.260
I mean, the different... kind of algorithms they

01:52:48.260 --> 01:52:49.960
have in CrossFit. You know, some of them are

01:52:49.960 --> 01:52:52.479
very, very short amount of time, but it's all

01:52:52.479 --> 01:52:54.380
intensity too, isn't it? I mean, if you're doing

01:52:54.380 --> 01:52:56.979
high, high intensity, you literally only need

01:52:56.979 --> 01:52:59.760
10 seconds. I mean, think about sprinters. But

01:52:59.760 --> 01:53:02.399
the biggest thing is that you stand on the side

01:53:02.399 --> 01:53:04.659
of the treadmill and you put your hands on the

01:53:04.659 --> 01:53:09.359
handles, you know, on the, whatever the poles

01:53:09.359 --> 01:53:11.819
or the, what are they called? Yeah, like the

01:53:11.819 --> 01:53:14.220
handrail. Yeah, the handrail. So you hold the

01:53:14.220 --> 01:53:17.090
handrail. And then when you jump on, you jump

01:53:17.090 --> 01:53:18.930
on with your hands on the handrail. You don't

01:53:18.930 --> 01:53:22.029
jump on it because you'll go flying off. So you

01:53:22.029 --> 01:53:24.569
start running with your hands on that, and then

01:53:24.569 --> 01:53:26.890
you let it go and you run, and then you jump

01:53:26.890 --> 01:53:29.770
off. So you're not going to wipe out. Because

01:53:29.770 --> 01:53:32.510
as soon as I brought my friend to do the 10 -10,

01:53:32.649 --> 01:53:36.689
10 to the fourth power, he jumped on that thing.

01:53:37.329 --> 01:53:39.229
And I said, hey, listen, you got to hold the

01:53:39.229 --> 01:53:41.630
handrails, and then you drop yourself onto the

01:53:41.630 --> 01:53:45.090
speeding track. And then you... grab the handrails,

01:53:45.090 --> 01:53:47.850
lift yourself off. I go, don't jump off. He went

01:53:47.850 --> 01:53:51.489
flying like three times. And I go, you know,

01:53:51.590 --> 01:53:54.470
if you, if you don't grab the handrails, you're

01:53:54.470 --> 01:53:57.029
going to go fly. You're going to get hurt. He

01:53:57.029 --> 01:54:00.810
did it. And he wiped out three times. And he

01:54:00.810 --> 01:54:02.850
said, I don't understand how you're not wiping

01:54:02.850 --> 01:54:05.189
out. You grab the handrail, you drop yourself

01:54:05.189 --> 01:54:07.810
on. When you're about to be done, you put your

01:54:07.810 --> 01:54:09.670
hands on the handrail, you take your feet off.

01:54:10.789 --> 01:54:12.750
But yeah, 10 to the fourth power. That's one

01:54:12.750 --> 01:54:15.149
of my favorites. I can still do that to this

01:54:15.149 --> 01:54:20.090
day. Really? That's tough, but I love that. I

01:54:20.090 --> 01:54:23.569
use that at the end of my workout. So when I

01:54:23.569 --> 01:54:27.710
go lift weights, then I do the 10 to the 4th

01:54:27.710 --> 01:54:30.909
power. Brilliant. Well, you talked about running

01:54:30.909 --> 01:54:33.829
being meditation, and that kind of is a good

01:54:33.829 --> 01:54:36.010
segue for something that we wanted to talk about.

01:54:37.270 --> 01:54:40.069
Transition out of the military, police, fire.

01:54:41.850 --> 01:54:44.189
well known to be a very challenging time you

01:54:44.189 --> 01:54:46.710
know we've identified as the cop the firefighter

01:54:46.710 --> 01:54:49.149
the soldier and if we haven't got a lot of things

01:54:49.149 --> 01:54:52.109
in place and another tribe to transition to it

01:54:52.109 --> 01:54:54.689
can be a struggle mentally you know it can really

01:54:54.689 --> 01:54:58.930
be be tough talk to me about fires whether they

01:54:58.930 --> 01:55:01.909
are uber successful maybe not so successful they

01:55:01.909 --> 01:55:06.149
pour everything into that lifestyle what do you

01:55:06.149 --> 01:55:10.289
see as far as the end of a fighter's kind of

01:55:10.289 --> 01:55:13.869
life cycle within the actual sport? You have

01:55:13.869 --> 01:55:17.590
to formulate your exit plan before you're exiting.

01:55:18.550 --> 01:55:23.810
Don't just go cold turkey and go, now what? You

01:55:23.810 --> 01:55:28.390
should have an idea as you're... I'm going to

01:55:28.390 --> 01:55:32.569
use an analogy like a relationship. I remember

01:55:32.569 --> 01:55:37.490
a long time ago when I would date a girl. And

01:55:37.490 --> 01:55:40.170
when you'd break up, she would never just break

01:55:40.170 --> 01:55:42.329
up with you. She would already have another guy

01:55:42.329 --> 01:55:46.149
in place. So she'd already had another guy that

01:55:46.149 --> 01:55:49.390
she already had planned on hooking up with before

01:55:49.390 --> 01:55:52.510
she ever got out of the relationship, which I

01:55:52.510 --> 01:55:55.149
found kind of weird, but it's an exit strategy.

01:55:55.850 --> 01:55:59.489
And it's kind of a, what do you call it? It makes

01:55:59.489 --> 01:56:01.850
you feel good or makes you feel comfortable.

01:56:02.770 --> 01:56:05.720
The cold turkey is the hardest, but. if you have

01:56:05.720 --> 01:56:09.859
a formulation or a game plan um like i told michael

01:56:09.859 --> 01:56:14.500
bisbee i said you know when he was fighting towards

01:56:14.500 --> 01:56:16.079
the end of his fight career i said you should

01:56:16.079 --> 01:56:20.399
really really focus and look at the commentary

01:56:20.399 --> 01:56:25.659
stuff because uh you've you've entertained people

01:56:25.659 --> 01:56:28.260
for a long time and and now you're no longer

01:56:28.260 --> 01:56:31.600
the spotlight of entertainment so something like

01:56:31.930 --> 01:56:35.369
For you, something like movie stuff, acting.

01:56:36.109 --> 01:56:39.270
I think acting would be good for you. Maybe some

01:56:39.270 --> 01:56:43.310
commercials. And it would be a good idea that

01:56:43.310 --> 01:56:45.670
you work on your speaking skills so you could

01:56:45.670 --> 01:56:48.630
actually be a commentator in the sport that you

01:56:48.630 --> 01:56:51.770
love so much and made a statement at. And sure

01:56:51.770 --> 01:56:55.829
enough, he listened. Or, yeah, he listened to

01:56:55.829 --> 01:56:58.149
what I said. No, he's a great commentator. He's

01:56:58.149 --> 01:57:02.260
working all the time on... and all the different

01:57:02.260 --> 01:57:07.079
ESPN and all the different ones that the UFC's

01:57:07.079 --> 01:57:09.899
on. That's great, right? Yeah, well, he's a good

01:57:09.899 --> 01:57:12.340
example, too, because he literally gave one of

01:57:12.340 --> 01:57:15.060
his eyes to the sport. Sure did, and that was

01:57:15.060 --> 01:57:19.100
the end. When the last time that I trained him,

01:57:19.140 --> 01:57:24.920
his eye was on the verge of being blind. And

01:57:24.920 --> 01:57:28.560
he could barely see shadows. And I was like...

01:57:28.760 --> 01:57:31.140
This is going to be like one of your last fights

01:57:31.140 --> 01:57:34.060
here with your eye that bad if it's consistently

01:57:34.060 --> 01:57:39.800
getting worse. So, again, I said you should really,

01:57:39.859 --> 01:57:42.880
really focus. If you listen to me, it will help

01:57:42.880 --> 01:57:46.039
you tremendously. But really focus on your speaking

01:57:46.039 --> 01:57:51.989
skills, your presentation. uh and and really

01:57:51.989 --> 01:57:54.750
work on your commentary stuff because you'd be

01:57:54.750 --> 01:57:57.569
a great commentator for for fights i would listen

01:57:57.569 --> 01:58:01.010
to you i would listen to your insight and one

01:58:01.010 --> 01:58:03.329
of the biggest things is you can't be braggadocious

01:58:03.329 --> 01:58:06.270
and talk about yourself all the time oh when

01:58:06.270 --> 01:58:08.550
i did this but that does help because you were

01:58:08.550 --> 01:58:10.529
already a fighter that or it was in the mix and

01:58:10.529 --> 01:58:13.510
people do like to hear that also but you know

01:58:13.510 --> 01:58:18.170
he's a good commentator and uh he makes the sport

01:58:18.170 --> 01:58:21.329
exciting Yeah, no, there's been some great, great

01:58:21.329 --> 01:58:22.930
ones that came out. Dan Hardy was another one,

01:58:22.949 --> 01:58:24.630
another English fighter that I think is very

01:58:24.630 --> 01:58:27.010
good. And yeah, I mean, pretty much everyone

01:58:27.010 --> 01:58:30.170
they have narrating as it were these days outside

01:58:30.170 --> 01:58:34.590
of Joe Rogan and some of the old faces, it really

01:58:34.590 --> 01:58:36.329
kind of underlines. And this is the same with

01:58:36.329 --> 01:58:38.149
us. Like we come out the fire service. It's like,

01:58:38.250 --> 01:58:40.550
well, what am I going to do now? All I knew how

01:58:40.550 --> 01:58:42.590
to do was be a firefighter. It's like, well,

01:58:42.609 --> 01:58:45.270
you have such an incredible skill set. You just

01:58:45.270 --> 01:58:48.470
got to reinvent how to apply that to a new career.

01:58:49.609 --> 01:58:53.149
You've got to reinvent yourself. Another great

01:58:53.149 --> 01:58:56.149
commentator, Kenny Florian. Wow, he's like a

01:58:56.149 --> 01:58:59.590
full -blown professional commentator. Yeah, and

01:58:59.590 --> 01:59:02.930
if there's ever a guy that someone would pick

01:59:02.930 --> 01:59:05.750
on in a bar and realize that they fucked up royally,

01:59:05.789 --> 01:59:08.109
it's someone like Kenny Florian. I'm sure earlier

01:59:08.109 --> 01:59:09.909
in his career, before he got a little bit more

01:59:09.909 --> 01:59:13.890
cauliflowered, he looked like the dude that worked

01:59:13.890 --> 01:59:15.569
at the library and one of the most dangerous

01:59:15.569 --> 01:59:19.600
men on the planet. Unassuming. And when you listen

01:59:19.600 --> 01:59:21.319
to him talk, you would never know that he was

01:59:21.319 --> 01:59:26.279
a fighter. No, that humility. Yeah, yeah. So

01:59:26.279 --> 01:59:29.600
I like that aspect. You know, Cormier is doing

01:59:29.600 --> 01:59:35.439
the same thing, but that's kind of a thing. You

01:59:35.439 --> 01:59:39.000
know, I started commentating. I was going to

01:59:39.000 --> 01:59:43.579
do more commentating. I did. I actually commentated

01:59:43.579 --> 01:59:48.500
a fight in Brazil. I started doing more and more

01:59:48.500 --> 01:59:50.279
of that. I was actually supposed to commentate

01:59:50.279 --> 01:59:54.680
the, the PFL professional flight. Oh, sorry.

01:59:54.979 --> 01:59:58.300
PSL professional submission league. It was Rico

01:59:58.300 --> 02:00:01.479
Ciparelli's event. And then I got, as I was walking

02:00:01.479 --> 02:00:05.000
down to the mic, the mic got hijacked and I didn't

02:00:05.000 --> 02:00:07.960
want to go in and say, Hey, I was promised that

02:00:07.960 --> 02:00:11.279
I could commentate this. So it was at the time

02:00:11.279 --> 02:00:13.699
it was Eddie. So it was Frank, Frank Tran kind

02:00:13.699 --> 02:00:18.050
of came in. and started commentating. And then

02:00:18.050 --> 02:00:20.729
Eddie Bravo walked in and he started commentating.

02:00:20.770 --> 02:00:22.470
Him and Frank were talking the whole time. And

02:00:22.470 --> 02:00:24.449
I was like, you know what, I'm not going to try

02:00:24.449 --> 02:00:27.489
to butt in. And Enrico goes, hey, you told me

02:00:27.489 --> 02:00:30.250
that you were going to commentate. And I said,

02:00:30.310 --> 02:00:32.510
but you got Frank and Eddie on the microphone

02:00:32.510 --> 02:00:34.930
and they're happy and they're talking and I'm

02:00:34.930 --> 02:00:38.430
not going to butt in. So I could just, you know,

02:00:38.430 --> 02:00:41.210
try to over commentate somebody. And that's when

02:00:41.210 --> 02:00:44.369
I kind of went, you know, and then. So I had

02:00:44.369 --> 02:00:50.069
a deal. I talked to HDNet Fights with Mark Cuban.

02:00:50.149 --> 02:00:54.350
And after I was done fighting for HDNets, I said

02:00:54.350 --> 02:00:57.029
I was going to commentate. I said, I'll commentate

02:00:57.029 --> 02:01:01.689
the fight. And all of a sudden, same thing. Guess

02:01:01.689 --> 02:01:06.590
what happens? I thought, okay, I fought. I'm

02:01:06.590 --> 02:01:09.890
going to fight again maybe. They may or may not

02:01:09.890 --> 02:01:11.869
have any more fights. I don't know if they want

02:01:11.869 --> 02:01:16.710
to again. Anyways, hey, maybe you should commentate.

02:01:17.050 --> 02:01:19.890
And sure enough, they go, oh, we got a commentator.

02:01:19.970 --> 02:01:22.010
I go, oh, you did? Who? And they go, Frank Trigg.

02:01:22.010 --> 02:01:27.109
And I go, oh. So then I was in Japan and they're

02:01:27.109 --> 02:01:29.010
like, hey, would you be interested to commentate

02:01:29.010 --> 02:01:32.460
with like Matt Hume? I know Boss Rutten and Stephen

02:01:32.460 --> 02:01:34.899
Quadros were the commentators for Pride, and

02:01:34.899 --> 02:01:39.539
they had talked to me about commentating. Same

02:01:39.539 --> 02:01:42.579
thing. I was like, they go, hey, would you be

02:01:42.579 --> 02:01:44.359
interested in commentating? Sure enough, they

02:01:44.359 --> 02:01:45.939
go, oh, don't worry, we got Frank Trick. And

02:01:45.939 --> 02:01:49.779
I was like, oh, okay. Like, what's going on here?

02:01:50.859 --> 02:01:52.600
And I just said, you know what? I'm not supposed

02:01:52.600 --> 02:01:54.960
to commentate, because if I was, I'd be in the

02:01:54.960 --> 02:01:58.680
commentator spot. So I just said, you know what?

02:02:00.110 --> 02:02:02.689
No, I'm not going to commentate. And then it

02:02:02.689 --> 02:02:05.949
was a while ago, just a while ago, but they said,

02:02:06.029 --> 02:02:09.590
hey, Joe Rogan's contemplating leaving the UFC.

02:02:11.350 --> 02:02:13.569
Would you be interested to commentate and take

02:02:13.569 --> 02:02:16.270
his spot? And I was like, that's a huge spot.

02:02:16.409 --> 02:02:18.430
I don't even know if I could ever do something

02:02:18.430 --> 02:02:21.909
like that. You know, his commentary spot is like,

02:02:21.949 --> 02:02:25.409
he's great. That would be the hardest shoes to

02:02:25.409 --> 02:02:31.020
fill. And then, what's, From Bodak, is it? Not

02:02:31.020 --> 02:02:37.340
Bodak, but... From Bellator, is it Jimmy? Jimmy...

02:02:37.340 --> 02:02:40.680
What's Jimmy's last name? I'm trying to remember

02:02:40.680 --> 02:02:43.079
now. I haven't watched Bellator for quite a while.

02:02:43.340 --> 02:02:48.479
I forget his last name. Sorry. Anyways, he sounds

02:02:48.479 --> 02:02:50.680
a lot like Joe Rogan. He kind of looks like Joe

02:02:50.680 --> 02:02:55.319
Rogan. He shaved his head. Jimmy was Dean Lister's

02:02:55.319 --> 02:02:59.619
fighter. He fought James Wilkes. in the King

02:02:59.619 --> 02:03:03.840
of the Cage. And he became a commentator. Sounds

02:03:03.840 --> 02:03:08.119
a lot like Joe Rogan. Sometimes, like, I'm not

02:03:08.119 --> 02:03:10.399
watching the TV, but I'm listening. I'll listen

02:03:10.399 --> 02:03:12.840
to the fights. And when he's talking, I'm like,

02:03:12.899 --> 02:03:15.979
is that Joe Rogan? He's on Bellator. But it's

02:03:15.979 --> 02:03:21.899
not. But anyways, that would be a tough shoe

02:03:21.899 --> 02:03:24.720
to fill, Joe Rogan's event on the UFC, because

02:03:24.720 --> 02:03:26.600
he knows so much about each fighter and each

02:03:26.600 --> 02:03:31.560
camp. You know, that takes a lot of work. Yeah.

02:03:31.640 --> 02:03:33.579
Well, Joe's done such an amazing job. I mean,

02:03:33.680 --> 02:03:36.260
his podcast is one of the ones that I listen

02:03:36.260 --> 02:03:38.520
to that really kind of sent me down this road

02:03:38.520 --> 02:03:42.800
as well. But where he is now and the voice and

02:03:42.800 --> 02:03:45.399
the platform that he has is kind of a voice of

02:03:45.399 --> 02:03:47.880
reason, you know, amongst a lot of things, but

02:03:47.880 --> 02:03:51.539
especially this last year or so. It's mind -blowing

02:03:51.539 --> 02:03:55.279
that a stand -up comedian from Boston is now...

02:03:55.579 --> 02:03:59.939
this voice that so many people in the US, not

02:03:59.939 --> 02:04:01.880
only listening to him specifically, but he's

02:04:01.880 --> 02:04:03.479
getting all these great minds, he's having great

02:04:03.479 --> 02:04:05.479
conversations, and therefore getting people to

02:04:05.479 --> 02:04:08.220
really question a lot of things. So, I mean,

02:04:08.239 --> 02:04:11.159
that man's genesis is mind -blowing to watch.

02:04:11.899 --> 02:04:15.340
Well, he had that TV show. Did you see his TV

02:04:15.340 --> 02:04:18.890
show? was it the the the fear factor one or the

02:04:18.890 --> 02:04:21.550
man show was another one he was on question question

02:04:21.550 --> 02:04:23.930
everything or joe rogan questions everything

02:04:23.930 --> 02:04:25.710
or something like that oh no i didn't see that

02:04:25.710 --> 02:04:31.909
one uh so he he ended up going in and so he would

02:04:31.909 --> 02:04:38.890
go check out places like harp and uh a lot of

02:04:38.890 --> 02:04:41.029
places where there's conspiracies and he would

02:04:41.029 --> 02:04:44.710
go in and try to debunk it you know area 51 and

02:04:45.529 --> 02:04:47.470
I don't know if you ever did that, but you know,

02:04:47.489 --> 02:04:49.069
I saw the harp one and I thought it was really

02:04:49.069 --> 02:04:51.770
great. And I was like, that would be, that's

02:04:51.770 --> 02:04:54.449
good. But I think what happens when you get involved

02:04:54.449 --> 02:05:00.670
with, with exposing conspiracies, I think you

02:05:00.670 --> 02:05:04.590
get phone calls and they're like, Hey, I saw

02:05:04.590 --> 02:05:07.789
your show. Yeah. You can't talk about stuff like

02:05:07.789 --> 02:05:13.319
that. You know, is your address. So -and -so,

02:05:13.340 --> 02:05:16.140
don't you reside there with your wife and your

02:05:16.140 --> 02:05:21.659
two kids, Jason and Emily? And you're like, okay.

02:05:22.859 --> 02:05:25.079
So I'm wondering if something like that could

02:05:25.079 --> 02:05:28.300
have happened, you know? Yeah, well, I think

02:05:28.300 --> 02:05:32.140
even Spotify, if I'm not mistaken, after he signed

02:05:32.140 --> 02:05:34.579
exclusively with them, I think several of his

02:05:34.579 --> 02:05:38.159
episodes went away. They decided that they weren't,

02:05:38.159 --> 02:05:41.340
you know, appropriate, quote unquote. So that's

02:05:41.340 --> 02:05:43.420
the problem when, you know, the bigger you get

02:05:43.420 --> 02:05:48.060
and the more corporate elements you allow into

02:05:48.060 --> 02:05:52.159
your life, sadly, the less of a platform you

02:05:52.159 --> 02:05:54.800
really have because you're relying now on, you

02:05:54.800 --> 02:05:59.380
know, you've kind of sold your source, your nucleus

02:05:59.380 --> 02:06:02.220
to another entity. So now in a way, they're kind

02:06:02.220 --> 02:06:06.289
of controlling you to a point. That's jealousy

02:06:06.289 --> 02:06:11.289
and sometimes they want to shut you down because

02:06:11.289 --> 02:06:14.149
you're in direct opposition. Yeah, exactly. Or

02:06:14.149 --> 02:06:16.869
some of the topics you've discussed are some

02:06:16.869 --> 02:06:19.550
of the very companies that are funding the platform

02:06:19.550 --> 02:06:21.770
that you're on, which is a very difficult place

02:06:21.770 --> 02:06:26.529
to be then. It was Jimmy Smith. How could I forget

02:06:26.529 --> 02:06:29.670
Jimmy Smith? That's his last name. Jimmy Smith's

02:06:29.670 --> 02:06:33.710
the commentator for Bellator. Mike Goldberg,

02:06:34.050 --> 02:06:37.789
Mauro Ranallo, Jimmy Smith, and Dominic Cruz.

02:06:38.970 --> 02:06:40.689
Yeah, Dominic's actually someone who's supposed

02:06:40.689 --> 02:06:43.770
to be coming on. I had a couple of his fellow

02:06:43.770 --> 02:06:45.810
teammates from a thing called Deep End Fitness,

02:06:46.069 --> 02:06:49.430
and I'm hoping to get him on soon. He was an

02:06:49.430 --> 02:06:52.170
exciting fighter to watch with his footwork.

02:06:52.890 --> 02:06:57.310
I'm glad that he kind of patented his style,

02:06:57.489 --> 02:07:02.590
and then he's selling. like downloads on how

02:07:02.590 --> 02:07:06.409
to do his footwork, which I think is great because

02:07:06.409 --> 02:07:10.670
that's, to me, like the epitome of boxing is

02:07:10.670 --> 02:07:13.550
great footwork. When I was in Golden Gloves,

02:07:13.590 --> 02:07:16.930
we had this guy, his name was Pat Smith, and

02:07:16.930 --> 02:07:24.010
he was a little Mexican guy in Minnesota that

02:07:24.010 --> 02:07:26.550
came in and was just kicking the shit out of

02:07:26.550 --> 02:07:28.970
everybody. And then we had this other guy from

02:07:28.970 --> 02:07:31.949
Minneapolis come in, And he was Navajo Indian.

02:07:32.689 --> 02:07:37.109
He came in and he looked a lot like Pat. And

02:07:37.109 --> 02:07:40.710
they went toe to toe in the ring. And he belittled

02:07:40.710 --> 02:07:46.069
Pat Smith. Pat was our local hero in Golden Gloves.

02:07:46.449 --> 02:07:49.630
And this guy came in and just was all over him.

02:07:49.649 --> 02:07:51.750
And I was like, wow. And then this guy said,

02:07:51.850 --> 02:07:53.869
that's how you see a difference in pedigree.

02:07:54.630 --> 02:07:59.439
And I remember exclusively. And watching them

02:07:59.439 --> 02:08:01.560
spar, and I said, what makes this guy so much

02:08:01.560 --> 02:08:06.319
better than Pat? I'm watching him move. And then

02:08:06.319 --> 02:08:08.659
someone goes, look at his feet. And I just looked

02:08:08.659 --> 02:08:11.079
down, and I just stared at his feet. And I was

02:08:11.079 --> 02:08:14.699
like, that's it. It's his footwork. His footwork

02:08:14.699 --> 02:08:18.260
is so much better than Pat's. Pat was step, slide,

02:08:18.319 --> 02:08:20.560
step, step, slide, step, slide, push, step, push,

02:08:20.600 --> 02:08:23.359
step. And this guy was cross -step, pivoting.

02:08:24.029 --> 02:08:26.329
uh he just had all his movements down he was

02:08:26.329 --> 02:08:29.310
circling angling stepping off to the left and

02:08:29.310 --> 02:08:32.649
the right circle stepping out uh using the female

02:08:32.649 --> 02:08:35.270
triangle and the lateral triangle and then he

02:08:35.270 --> 02:08:38.390
turned sideways and just his movement was so

02:08:38.390 --> 02:08:44.449
uh far advanced and uh after he was done sparring

02:08:44.449 --> 02:08:48.590
i said wow it was amazing um can i ask you something

02:08:48.590 --> 02:08:51.109
because yeah i go your footwork is so amazing

02:08:51.109 --> 02:08:55.100
i mean Pat could barely touch you. And he goes,

02:08:55.220 --> 02:08:57.279
I said, well, how do you get your footwork that

02:08:57.279 --> 02:09:00.399
good? He goes, I jump rope for 30 minutes every

02:09:00.399 --> 02:09:05.119
day and I shadow box. And I go, so, he goes,

02:09:05.119 --> 02:09:08.479
so jump rope every day and shadow box. And so

02:09:08.479 --> 02:09:11.079
I started jumping rope for 30 minutes every day

02:09:11.079 --> 02:09:14.300
and shadow boxing. And it was funny because when

02:09:14.300 --> 02:09:16.739
I was training at the Inosano Academy, I would

02:09:16.739 --> 02:09:20.699
take night classes. And while I'm taking night

02:09:20.699 --> 02:09:23.779
classes, people would come in and watch the night

02:09:23.779 --> 02:09:26.439
classes. And I had three people come up to me

02:09:26.439 --> 02:09:29.420
and they said, you could tell that when you're

02:09:29.420 --> 02:09:31.380
training with people that you're the fighter

02:09:31.380 --> 02:09:33.439
and they're not, the person you're training with

02:09:33.439 --> 02:09:34.960
isn't a fighter. And I go, well, how's that?

02:09:35.000 --> 02:09:37.579
They go, you're on your toes and you're floating

02:09:37.579 --> 02:09:39.979
around on the ground and you're moving and you're

02:09:39.979 --> 02:09:44.399
in and out and circling. And these people are

02:09:44.399 --> 02:09:47.199
flat footed, dragging their cement blocks around

02:09:47.199 --> 02:09:50.220
on the floor. And I said, oh yeah, I used to

02:09:50.220 --> 02:09:53.979
jump a lot of rope. and shadowbots a lot but

02:09:53.979 --> 02:09:57.220
it came i forgot it came from this i was in eighth

02:09:57.220 --> 02:10:00.399
or ninth grade and this kid that came in this

02:10:00.399 --> 02:10:05.859
little indian kid from from uh downtown minneapolis

02:10:05.859 --> 02:10:10.000
comes in and just belittled our champion it was

02:10:10.000 --> 02:10:14.079
just uh eye -opening you know it's funny because

02:10:14.079 --> 02:10:17.680
i still remember my my boxing practices from

02:10:17.680 --> 02:10:21.869
eighth grade isn't that crazy I remember all

02:10:21.869 --> 02:10:24.289
the exercise of the calisthenics. And if you

02:10:24.289 --> 02:10:27.569
if you weren't very good or if you weren't like

02:10:27.569 --> 02:10:30.409
a hopeful, you had to do calisthenics the whole

02:10:30.409 --> 02:10:33.829
time. But they would walk in, they go, you come

02:10:33.829 --> 02:10:36.010
on in here, put these gloves on, jump in the

02:10:36.010 --> 02:10:37.770
ring and they throw you in the ring and you get

02:10:37.770 --> 02:10:42.369
the box and spar. And that happened to me and

02:10:42.369 --> 02:10:44.729
my friend used to my best friend and I were training

02:10:44.729 --> 02:10:47.590
at the time. And he'd get so mad that they would

02:10:47.590 --> 02:10:51.340
call me out of practice to spar. Just a box.

02:10:51.420 --> 02:10:53.279
And they go, you have a good future. You should

02:10:53.279 --> 02:10:59.319
consider competing. So I did. And then I realized

02:10:59.319 --> 02:11:02.220
that my brow bones were sharper than everybody

02:11:02.220 --> 02:11:06.619
else's. So I was easily cut. So I get cut. Almost

02:11:06.619 --> 02:11:10.920
every sparring session, I get cut. And then so

02:11:10.920 --> 02:11:14.260
it taught me how to move my head. And then the

02:11:14.260 --> 02:11:16.279
wall survival drill, that helped tremendously.

02:11:17.130 --> 02:11:19.130
But I didn't really learn the wall survival drill

02:11:19.130 --> 02:11:21.590
until I trained with Tim Tackett in his garage.

02:11:21.850 --> 02:11:24.489
And was that to stop you backing up the whole

02:11:24.489 --> 02:11:28.789
time? Yeah, the wall survival, it just prevents

02:11:28.789 --> 02:11:32.529
guys from putting their hands on my face. And

02:11:32.529 --> 02:11:34.930
this guy said, hey, if you value the way your

02:11:34.930 --> 02:11:39.489
face looks, learn how to move your head. And

02:11:39.489 --> 02:11:42.430
then my coach goes, you have a long face, so

02:11:42.430 --> 02:11:44.970
you need to really learn to get your head off

02:11:44.970 --> 02:11:47.579
center line. He said, so every time you punch,

02:11:47.699 --> 02:11:51.239
your pinky's high like this, and then your head's

02:11:51.239 --> 02:11:54.319
in one quadrant and your hand's on the other.

02:11:54.760 --> 02:11:58.100
So I put a cross on my mirror, and I would put

02:11:58.100 --> 02:12:01.140
my head on one side, and then I'd put my punch

02:12:01.140 --> 02:12:04.140
on the other. So I used to practice moving my

02:12:04.140 --> 02:12:07.300
head and overhanding and uppercutting. So my

02:12:07.300 --> 02:12:09.380
head was never on center line the whole time.

02:12:09.880 --> 02:12:12.560
And then the other is I put an X on the cross,

02:12:12.619 --> 02:12:15.350
so I have an asterisk. And those are all your

02:12:15.350 --> 02:12:18.689
punching angles that you hit. So if you put an

02:12:18.689 --> 02:12:22.890
asterisk on your wall, that is, or on your mirror

02:12:22.890 --> 02:12:25.369
or your wall, those are all your head movements

02:12:25.369 --> 02:12:27.510
and your punching, where your head's here and

02:12:27.510 --> 02:12:29.750
you're punching. So it gets your head and all

02:12:29.750 --> 02:12:32.050
the different angles. Then what you do is you

02:12:32.050 --> 02:12:34.489
take an asterisk and you put it on the floor,

02:12:34.569 --> 02:12:37.850
and that's your footwork. We used to call it

02:12:37.850 --> 02:12:41.789
Leo's six pattern, Leo Gahi, famous stick fighter.

02:12:42.319 --> 02:12:45.020
had the female triangle the lateral and then

02:12:45.020 --> 02:12:48.239
the male triangle and then you do the start it's

02:12:48.239 --> 02:12:51.239
called a star pattern on the floor but then i

02:12:51.239 --> 02:12:54.199
added uh the forward and back in there so it's

02:12:54.199 --> 02:12:56.899
eight movements so it's really good for your

02:12:56.899 --> 02:12:59.039
footwork and then you do the same asterisks on

02:12:59.039 --> 02:13:02.079
the wall and that's your punching patterns that

02:13:02.079 --> 02:13:04.439
was the easiest way for us to train brock lesnar

02:13:04.439 --> 02:13:07.920
to put the asterisks on the floor and the asterisks

02:13:07.920 --> 02:13:11.020
on the wall Now was that, again, because of the

02:13:11.020 --> 02:13:13.000
wrestling background, he had a very kind of linear

02:13:13.000 --> 02:13:16.380
element to his footwork prior to that? Yeah,

02:13:16.380 --> 02:13:19.579
you have to get off the center line and get out

02:13:19.579 --> 02:13:22.439
of going forward and back and start to add the

02:13:22.439 --> 02:13:25.800
angles and the circles and the pivots. And I

02:13:25.800 --> 02:13:29.119
think that was one aspect that really helped

02:13:29.119 --> 02:13:32.619
him out a lot with that. Beautiful. Well, I'm

02:13:32.619 --> 02:13:34.800
sure people listening are fascinated by your

02:13:34.800 --> 02:13:36.340
journey through the martial arts. Obviously,

02:13:36.359 --> 02:13:38.619
the stunt world is another interesting thing,

02:13:38.659 --> 02:13:42.560
especially for me being in it too. But you have

02:13:42.560 --> 02:13:46.119
an entire library, obviously, of your work. Tell

02:13:46.119 --> 02:13:48.560
me about Combat Submission Wrestling and then

02:13:48.560 --> 02:13:52.199
where can people access all of that online? So

02:13:52.199 --> 02:13:58.819
when I was training, I had won the belts of Japan.

02:13:59.420 --> 02:14:05.380
I had two belts and I wasn't really able to certify

02:14:05.380 --> 02:14:09.680
or qualify anyone. I wasn't able to give any

02:14:09.680 --> 02:14:15.000
ranking in Shudo whatsoever until I retired from

02:14:15.000 --> 02:14:16.699
fighting. He said, oh, now you can promote Shudo.

02:14:16.779 --> 02:14:20.079
And I go, it's kind of late. And at the same

02:14:20.079 --> 02:14:24.500
time, I was a blue belt in Jiu -Jitsu. and i

02:14:24.500 --> 02:14:27.359
never i had my blue belt for nearly 17 years

02:14:27.359 --> 02:14:33.180
uh 16 years 16 plus and i wasn't able to promote

02:14:33.180 --> 02:14:37.760
anyone in jujitsu and so i said all i said is

02:14:37.760 --> 02:14:39.819
all i want to do is have good training partners

02:14:39.819 --> 02:14:43.600
and uh people that i can train with so i can

02:14:43.600 --> 02:14:45.859
get ready for my fights i go i don't care about

02:14:45.859 --> 02:14:48.100
any rank and anything that doesn't matter to

02:14:48.100 --> 02:14:51.479
me what matters is if i get my ass kicked to

02:14:51.479 --> 02:14:53.979
my fight that matters to me so I want to train

02:14:53.979 --> 02:14:56.020
as hard as I can. I want the best coaches in

02:14:56.020 --> 02:14:57.939
the world, and I just want to train super hard.

02:14:58.159 --> 02:15:01.399
I don't care about a rank. Well, when you're

02:15:01.399 --> 02:15:03.760
starting to get older, what's your exit plan

02:15:03.760 --> 02:15:08.399
out of fighting? Often teaching. You got to get

02:15:08.399 --> 02:15:12.520
your rank. Someone goes, hey, so you have to

02:15:12.520 --> 02:15:16.140
have a rank in something. So that never concerned

02:15:16.140 --> 02:15:18.300
me until I was getting towards the end of my

02:15:18.300 --> 02:15:21.039
fighting. I was like, oh. I went, you know what,

02:15:21.100 --> 02:15:23.000
I should probably go start getting my rank and

02:15:23.000 --> 02:15:27.079
stuff and making it a better, bigger deal. Because

02:15:27.079 --> 02:15:29.579
I was never a paper chaser or a belt chaser.

02:15:29.680 --> 02:15:33.039
All I wanted was a skill and good training partners.

02:15:33.220 --> 02:15:35.640
I didn't care about anything else. I don't need

02:15:35.640 --> 02:15:39.819
an award. My award was not losing my fight. That

02:15:39.819 --> 02:15:43.859
was my award. And if you lose a fight, you lose

02:15:43.859 --> 02:15:47.159
a fight. If your fight stays a loss, if you're

02:15:47.159 --> 02:15:49.300
not learning from your fight, you're either fighting

02:15:49.300 --> 02:15:52.319
and winning or fighting and learning, not fighting

02:15:52.319 --> 02:15:54.960
and losing. There's a big difference. You have

02:15:54.960 --> 02:15:58.100
to learn from every situation. I got armbarred

02:15:58.100 --> 02:16:01.039
by Carlos Newton. I'd never been armbarred. Even

02:16:01.039 --> 02:16:03.439
when we're rolling, I'd never been armbarred

02:16:03.439 --> 02:16:05.880
from the guard. I've always stacked and pass

02:16:05.880 --> 02:16:08.380
and rip my arm out. And he spun under me and

02:16:08.380 --> 02:16:10.520
he had a helicopter and spun under me and I landed

02:16:10.520 --> 02:16:16.859
on my head. After that fight, I had five guys

02:16:16.859 --> 02:16:19.800
teach me armbar escapes. I said, what's your

02:16:19.800 --> 02:16:23.000
favorite armbar escape from the guard? I had

02:16:23.000 --> 02:16:27.800
a couple wrestlers. I had judo guys. I had jiu

02:16:27.800 --> 02:16:30.079
-jitsu guys. And everyone taught me something

02:16:30.079 --> 02:16:33.040
different. So I learned like probably five or

02:16:33.040 --> 02:16:35.579
six different ways to prevent the armbar when

02:16:35.579 --> 02:16:37.719
you're stacking somebody, how to get out of it.

02:16:38.219 --> 02:16:41.930
Everyone had a different method. So that was

02:16:41.930 --> 02:16:45.270
interesting. And then what was the other one?

02:16:46.250 --> 02:16:49.110
Just getting taken down all the counters to double

02:16:49.110 --> 02:16:51.770
legs. What are the, how do you counter a double

02:16:51.770 --> 02:16:55.110
leg? And this guy said, Hey, are you going to

02:16:55.110 --> 02:16:57.649
do the sea lot seminar this weekend? I go, no,

02:16:57.809 --> 02:17:00.389
I've got a fight coming up and my opponent's

02:17:00.389 --> 02:17:03.850
a tough wrestler and I have to learn how to stop

02:17:03.850 --> 02:17:07.209
his double leg or a shot. So my whole weekend

02:17:07.209 --> 02:17:09.190
is going to be spent countering double legs.

02:17:10.000 --> 02:17:12.260
The guy goes, are you saying that Silat doesn't

02:17:12.260 --> 02:17:14.680
work? And I go, never said that Silat doesn't

02:17:14.680 --> 02:17:18.079
work, but it doesn't work for me in two weeks

02:17:18.079 --> 02:17:20.600
when I'm in a cage. And he goes, so you're saying

02:17:20.600 --> 02:17:23.379
Silat doesn't work? And I go, it's not for me

02:17:23.379 --> 02:17:27.000
right now. That's all he said. And then he turned

02:17:27.000 --> 02:17:29.059
around and he told Guru Dan and Asano that I

02:17:29.059 --> 02:17:31.459
said that Silat, Eric Paulson said that Silat

02:17:31.459 --> 02:17:34.379
doesn't work. No, you took it out of context.

02:17:34.579 --> 02:17:37.299
I said, I got to fight. I'm fighting a wrestler.

02:17:37.870 --> 02:17:39.950
I don't need to worry about a Puder Kapal and

02:17:39.950 --> 02:17:41.870
a Kensington Sequel right now. I need to learn

02:17:41.870 --> 02:17:44.930
and worry about a double leg tackle. Once a guy

02:17:44.930 --> 02:17:47.569
throws a bomb at my head or I go to hit him back,

02:17:47.610 --> 02:17:49.530
he's going to shoot on me. I have to have a good

02:17:49.530 --> 02:17:53.530
counter. So every time I got ready for a fight,

02:17:53.590 --> 02:17:56.510
I had to learn each person's skill set, what

02:17:56.510 --> 02:17:58.430
they were good at, and try to get good at what

02:17:58.430 --> 02:18:01.389
they were good at to learn how to defend against

02:18:01.389 --> 02:18:06.520
that, such as triangles or arm bars. or ankle

02:18:06.520 --> 02:18:09.180
locks. That was the big thing. Someone said,

02:18:09.260 --> 02:18:10.920
hey, Eric Paulson's really good at leg locks.

02:18:11.760 --> 02:18:14.639
Actually, I'm better at leg defense than I am

02:18:14.639 --> 02:18:18.819
at leg locks because I only learned the leg locks

02:18:18.819 --> 02:18:20.600
so I learned how to defend all of them because

02:18:20.600 --> 02:18:22.500
all the guys in Japan were hunting the legs.

02:18:23.479 --> 02:18:25.920
So I never got leg lock from any of those leg

02:18:25.920 --> 02:18:28.579
lock specialists because I was so good at defending

02:18:28.579 --> 02:18:32.979
the legs. That's one thing. So it's all a learning

02:18:32.979 --> 02:18:36.030
process. Everything's all about learning. Every

02:18:36.030 --> 02:18:38.129
time you fight, you're learning something about

02:18:38.129 --> 02:18:39.690
yourself. You're learning something about your

02:18:39.690 --> 02:18:44.290
opponent. New skills, new counters, new ways

02:18:44.290 --> 02:18:50.389
to train or new ways not to train. So you were

02:18:50.389 --> 02:18:54.290
seeking the rank. Prior to that, you were preparing

02:18:54.290 --> 02:18:56.790
for fights and you were going to the greatest

02:18:56.790 --> 02:18:59.010
minds to figure out that particular opponent.

02:18:59.350 --> 02:19:03.770
But now you're on your own exit path. When did

02:19:03.770 --> 02:19:05.959
you... pull all that together to create your

02:19:05.959 --> 02:19:11.500
own system and start teaching. Like 95, so I

02:19:11.500 --> 02:19:19.700
was teaching a seminar for fighting. Someone

02:19:19.700 --> 02:19:21.520
said, hey, can you come and teach judo? And I

02:19:21.520 --> 02:19:23.379
said, yeah, but I'm not allowed to rank, but

02:19:23.379 --> 02:19:28.659
I can do it. So Mrs. Inosanto, I was trained

02:19:28.659 --> 02:19:31.799
at the Inosanto Academy, and I was... transitioning

02:19:31.799 --> 02:19:35.420
from Hickson School to the Machados, because

02:19:35.420 --> 02:19:38.520
Higgin came in and asked me, how's your jiu -jitsu?

02:19:38.620 --> 02:19:41.000
I said, nonexistent. Let me ask my brothers if

02:19:41.000 --> 02:19:44.159
it's okay that we train you. So then I competed

02:19:44.159 --> 02:19:48.860
for them in 96 in the Pan Ams, and I won a gold

02:19:48.860 --> 02:19:51.219
medal. And then I still never got promoted after

02:19:51.219 --> 02:19:53.000
that. And I just said, you know what? I'm not

02:19:53.000 --> 02:19:56.059
after a belt. I'm after training partners. And

02:19:56.059 --> 02:19:59.739
I guess they believed me. Because nobody ever

02:19:59.739 --> 02:20:02.579
ranked me after that. And I didn't care. Like

02:20:02.579 --> 02:20:05.079
I said, because all I wanted was good training

02:20:05.079 --> 02:20:07.819
guys. I wanted to be good on the ground. I wanted

02:20:07.819 --> 02:20:10.500
good training partners. And I needed people that

02:20:10.500 --> 02:20:12.799
I could pressure test with to get ready for all

02:20:12.799 --> 02:20:20.120
my upcoming matches. So I was traveling, fighting,

02:20:20.319 --> 02:20:24.200
assisting Guru Dan and Asana doing seminars.

02:20:25.680 --> 02:20:31.000
And then I had... seminars. I had seminars that

02:20:31.000 --> 02:20:34.639
I was teaching on shootout, but guys were saying,

02:20:34.799 --> 02:20:37.139
Hey, do you, is there any way, do you have any

02:20:37.139 --> 02:20:41.719
form or you have an association or anything that

02:20:41.719 --> 02:20:44.139
we could get hooked up with to get more video

02:20:44.139 --> 02:20:49.280
footage and to learn more of the stuff that you're

02:20:49.280 --> 02:20:55.239
teaching? And I said, well, not yet, but I'm

02:20:55.239 --> 02:20:59.270
working on something. So, They originally called

02:20:59.270 --> 02:21:03.370
it combat grappling, combat grappling. And so

02:21:03.370 --> 02:21:05.510
somebody said, well, what are you after? And

02:21:05.510 --> 02:21:11.430
I said, well, it's no -gi grappling. And the

02:21:11.430 --> 02:21:13.850
no -gi grappling is a compilation of stuff, but

02:21:13.850 --> 02:21:16.409
it's kind of like right now it's more like catch

02:21:16.409 --> 02:21:22.370
wrestling and striking. So that's what Shudo

02:21:22.370 --> 02:21:25.360
is. It's catch wrestling and striking. I was

02:21:25.360 --> 02:21:30.159
also training in jiu -jitsu since 1986. So I

02:21:30.159 --> 02:21:32.620
wasn't allowed to rank anyone in jiu -jitsu.

02:21:32.739 --> 02:21:36.360
So I was like, okay, well, what I'll do is I'll

02:21:36.360 --> 02:21:40.020
just create a hybrid system. And all the guys

02:21:40.020 --> 02:21:42.579
that I train, which this will make us different,

02:21:42.700 --> 02:21:46.280
is all the guys I train will all be getting ready

02:21:46.280 --> 02:21:48.979
for competitions. Everyone that I'm going to

02:21:48.979 --> 02:21:51.579
train at that time, they all wanted to compete.

02:21:52.769 --> 02:21:54.309
They were like, hey, we want to be like you.

02:21:54.350 --> 02:21:55.969
We want to compete. And I said, okay, well, there's

02:21:55.969 --> 02:21:58.809
grappling tournaments left and right now. You

02:21:58.809 --> 02:22:01.790
guys can compete in those. And there's kickboxing

02:22:01.790 --> 02:22:04.370
or Muay Thai tournaments all the time. And then

02:22:04.370 --> 02:22:08.129
there's MMA fights that you guys could do. So

02:22:08.129 --> 02:22:10.610
we'll train you guys. We'll get you guys good.

02:22:11.469 --> 02:22:14.670
We'll train you as an athlete, teach you a bunch

02:22:14.670 --> 02:22:17.569
of stuff, get you good at wrestling. Get you

02:22:17.569 --> 02:22:19.690
good at takedowns and get you good on the ground.

02:22:19.809 --> 02:22:22.750
And then we'll add the striking and the takedowns.

02:22:22.750 --> 02:22:25.610
And so you guys will have a system. So it's a

02:22:25.610 --> 02:22:28.229
catch wrestler. You guys will all be catch wrestlers

02:22:28.229 --> 02:22:31.569
that fight. That will make everything different.

02:22:33.190 --> 02:22:38.290
So that's what we did. So that's how it started.

02:22:39.250 --> 02:22:43.510
It was kind of a hybrid. So I told all my guys,

02:22:43.569 --> 02:22:46.579
I said, hey. If you haven't found a good jujitsu

02:22:46.579 --> 02:22:48.959
school, you should all find a good jujitsu school

02:22:48.959 --> 02:22:52.280
around your area and join so you guys can all

02:22:52.280 --> 02:22:57.159
learn jujitsu. And I didn't care. I didn't say

02:22:57.159 --> 02:22:59.659
so you could get your belt. I said so you could

02:22:59.659 --> 02:23:02.780
learn jujitsu. So your jujitsu will help you

02:23:02.780 --> 02:23:06.760
with your defense, with your transitions, and

02:23:06.760 --> 02:23:08.479
then the catch wrestling will help you with your

02:23:08.479 --> 02:23:10.979
wrestling and your attacks. You put them together,

02:23:11.180 --> 02:23:13.819
that's a pretty good system because you have

02:23:13.819 --> 02:23:18.250
aggressive, Attacks, controls, riding, takedowns,

02:23:18.250 --> 02:23:22.569
scrambles. And then on the ground, you have the

02:23:22.569 --> 02:23:26.409
positioning, the controls, the transitioning,

02:23:26.530 --> 02:23:30.389
and the defense that escapes. So there we go.

02:23:30.770 --> 02:23:33.430
And that's kind of how combat submission wrestling

02:23:33.430 --> 02:23:35.889
came about. So when I was in Japan, they have

02:23:35.889 --> 02:23:41.340
combat wrestling. Combat wrestling. was Kiguchi

02:23:41.340 --> 02:23:43.819
started this league. It was called Combat Wrestling.

02:23:43.940 --> 02:23:48.120
And most of the catch wrestlers or the fighters

02:23:48.120 --> 02:23:52.739
in Japan, when they didn't fight, they did Submission

02:23:52.739 --> 02:23:57.760
Wrestling. They did Combat Wrestling tournaments

02:23:57.760 --> 02:24:04.600
because it was basically Shudo without the striking.

02:24:05.440 --> 02:24:08.319
So it was just take down to submission. But all

02:24:08.319 --> 02:24:12.110
the submissions from Shudo. So combat wrestling.

02:24:12.250 --> 02:24:15.389
So I came back and I said, hey, I like the combat

02:24:15.389 --> 02:24:19.649
wrestling. I'm not going to do something similar,

02:24:19.790 --> 02:24:22.750
but make it different. And they said, what is

02:24:22.750 --> 02:24:25.930
it? I go, combat submission wrestling. And they

02:24:25.930 --> 02:24:29.270
said, well, what's different about that? I said,

02:24:29.290 --> 02:24:33.250
what's different is the fact that you guys will

02:24:33.250 --> 02:24:36.409
all learn to be wrestlers and judo, sambo, and

02:24:36.409 --> 02:24:40.559
wrestling for your takedowns. On the ground,

02:24:40.620 --> 02:24:42.700
you have all your attacks from catch wrestling.

02:24:43.920 --> 02:24:47.600
And then you'll learn jiu -jitsu also as part

02:24:47.600 --> 02:24:53.139
of the defense. And then you guys will also compete

02:24:53.139 --> 02:24:58.639
in jiu -jitsu tournaments, if you can. And you

02:24:58.639 --> 02:25:01.440
will compete in grappling tournaments. And then

02:25:01.440 --> 02:25:03.479
you guys will also fight. All you guys will fight.

02:25:03.600 --> 02:25:06.840
You have to have the combative aspect of the

02:25:06.840 --> 02:25:10.040
grappling, which is fighting. which is ground

02:25:10.040 --> 02:25:13.840
and pound or punching, kicking, takedown, and

02:25:13.840 --> 02:25:17.020
grappling. If you guys have that aspect, then

02:25:17.020 --> 02:25:20.239
you guys are like more complete fighters. So

02:25:20.239 --> 02:25:23.879
let's change it and let's add some weapons. Let's

02:25:23.879 --> 02:25:26.100
put some weapons in it too. So now you guys got

02:25:26.100 --> 02:25:31.139
Kali. So you guys could stick fight. You're going

02:25:31.139 --> 02:25:33.899
to takedown. So we'll add the takedowns with

02:25:33.899 --> 02:25:36.020
the stick fighting and the ground grappling with

02:25:36.020 --> 02:25:39.250
the ground and pound. So that's that aspect.

02:25:39.610 --> 02:25:42.690
So now you can fight with a weapon or you could

02:25:42.690 --> 02:25:46.469
go just straight MMA style, punching, kicking,

02:25:46.569 --> 02:25:50.530
throwing, submission, judo, or submission wrestling.

02:25:51.010 --> 02:25:53.270
Or if you want to put a gi on, you can do judo,

02:25:53.270 --> 02:25:57.790
sambo, or jujitsu. And they're like, hey, good

02:25:57.790 --> 02:26:01.350
idea. So that's, and I said, that's very JKD

02:26:01.350 --> 02:26:04.209
of the grappling or the fighting, which is just

02:26:04.209 --> 02:26:07.639
a continuation, which is more. athletically inclined

02:26:07.639 --> 02:26:11.260
it's not so much of a technical aspect as it

02:26:11.260 --> 02:26:15.680
is uh athletic and sport like because all we

02:26:15.680 --> 02:26:17.899
did is we sparred and we rolled every day that

02:26:17.899 --> 02:26:22.520
was that was par for the course we would do takedowns

02:26:22.520 --> 02:26:25.899
we would do boxing we would do kickboxing we

02:26:25.899 --> 02:26:29.680
would do shoot boxing we would do mma we would

02:26:29.680 --> 02:26:32.399
do ground and pound clinching ground and pound

02:26:32.399 --> 02:26:36.360
and then we would just do clinching to take down

02:26:36.360 --> 02:26:41.000
the submission wrestling. That was it. That's

02:26:41.000 --> 02:26:44.440
how it came about. Beautiful. So talk to me about

02:26:44.440 --> 02:26:46.739
what's there today. So people listening, if they

02:26:46.739 --> 02:26:50.379
want to access some of your training, are there

02:26:50.379 --> 02:26:52.719
places where they can actually physically learn?

02:26:52.860 --> 02:26:57.479
Is there online content? So we created the CSW

02:26:57.479 --> 02:26:59.540
Association, Combat Submission Wrestling Association.

02:27:00.139 --> 02:27:04.100
We have approximately 150 members. that are flying

02:27:04.100 --> 02:27:07.340
our flag and running our programs through their

02:27:07.340 --> 02:27:11.659
schools. And we have a core three program, which

02:27:11.659 --> 02:27:17.819
is submission wrestling. The CSW submission wrestling

02:27:17.819 --> 02:27:20.659
levels one through 10. There's one through five,

02:27:20.760 --> 02:27:25.559
which is the five basic positions, cross body,

02:27:25.760 --> 02:27:30.319
closed guard, kneeling, back position, and mount.

02:27:30.889 --> 02:27:33.129
And then we have the secondary, which is six

02:27:33.129 --> 02:27:36.229
through 10, which is half guard, side half guard,

02:27:36.510 --> 02:27:42.750
butterfly guard, X guard, half guard, side half

02:27:42.750 --> 02:27:45.250
guard. I already said that. Stretch guard. Then

02:27:45.250 --> 02:27:48.790
we go into Keizugatame, Kazuri, Keizugatame,

02:27:48.909 --> 02:27:51.649
north and south. And we address all the secondary

02:27:51.649 --> 02:27:55.750
positions. That's six through 10. And then a

02:27:55.750 --> 02:27:58.469
combination of all of it is levels one through

02:27:58.469 --> 02:28:03.180
10. So that's the ground grappling. There's throws

02:28:03.180 --> 02:28:05.899
in there also. It's part of a curriculum. Then

02:28:05.899 --> 02:28:09.979
we created the STX program, which was the Inosanto

02:28:09.979 --> 02:28:13.420
blend of kickboxing, which had to do with boxing,

02:28:13.680 --> 02:28:18.920
Thai boxing, Shudo, Junfan kickboxing. And then

02:28:18.920 --> 02:28:22.479
I added Taekwondo or Kyokushin karate. It's all

02:28:22.479 --> 02:28:26.159
part of the kickboxing curriculum. So we have

02:28:26.159 --> 02:28:29.010
levels five through 10. I'm sorry. one through

02:28:29.010 --> 02:28:32.870
five and five, five through 10 is going to, we're,

02:28:32.889 --> 02:28:34.790
we just talked about it. We're deciding that

02:28:34.790 --> 02:28:36.389
we're going to come up with five to 10. It'll

02:28:36.389 --> 02:28:39.149
be shoot boxing. So that will be punching, kicking

02:28:39.149 --> 02:28:43.350
and throwing. So shoot boxing is a kickboxing

02:28:43.350 --> 02:28:46.170
with throws. And you can also hit standing chokes

02:28:46.170 --> 02:28:49.750
and neck cranks. That's shoot boxing. And that's

02:28:49.750 --> 02:28:53.670
fun. The hardest workout I ever did was shoot

02:28:53.670 --> 02:28:56.930
boxing. Because you go punch, and you take your

02:28:56.930 --> 02:28:59.129
partner down, and you've got to get up. And you've

02:28:59.129 --> 02:29:01.170
just got to keep kickboxing, and then you keep

02:29:01.170 --> 02:29:04.250
taking each other down. So we used to shoot box

02:29:04.250 --> 02:29:06.750
in the park. And it was funny because Mario Van

02:29:06.750 --> 02:29:08.670
Peeples used to watch us. We were down in the

02:29:08.670 --> 02:29:13.290
Marina del Rey, or Playa del Rey. And James Evans,

02:29:13.430 --> 02:29:19.389
Nicole from London, and Matt Chapman, and some

02:29:19.389 --> 02:29:24.209
of the guys like David Lee. David Lee came out,

02:29:24.290 --> 02:29:27.969
Rick Young. And some of these guys came out to

02:29:27.969 --> 02:29:30.510
train. And we were just sitting in the park and

02:29:30.510 --> 02:29:38.489
spar. And it was just regular. And we punch.

02:29:38.870 --> 02:29:41.350
We would punch. We'd kick. We'd do kickboxing.

02:29:41.610 --> 02:29:43.549
And then we'd do shootboxing. And then we'd do

02:29:43.549 --> 02:29:45.809
MMA. And then ground and pound and just grappling.

02:29:46.590 --> 02:29:49.069
And you end up just grappling in the end. But

02:29:49.069 --> 02:29:51.969
the ground and pound was fun, too. You know,

02:29:52.069 --> 02:29:55.309
because it's real. And I just thought, you know,

02:29:55.329 --> 02:29:58.569
if you're going to add reality to your grappling,

02:29:58.790 --> 02:30:03.610
you have to add striking. So once every two weeks

02:30:03.610 --> 02:30:06.149
we put MMA gloves on in our jiu -jitsu class

02:30:06.149 --> 02:30:10.989
and we make them strike. Because you get so used

02:30:10.989 --> 02:30:14.889
to sport jiu -jitsu that you do positions and

02:30:14.889 --> 02:30:17.430
sweeps and your face is wide open to get punched.

02:30:18.370 --> 02:30:21.489
So that's not great for the street. Once you

02:30:21.489 --> 02:30:24.909
start addressing the striking aspect on the ground,

02:30:25.010 --> 02:30:29.049
then it's better for self -defense. Absolutely.

02:30:29.069 --> 02:30:31.030
Well, for people listening, where can they find

02:30:31.030 --> 02:30:36.430
CSW? Just ericpaulson .com. And we also have

02:30:36.430 --> 02:30:40.670
an MMA program that we're finishing up. So we

02:30:40.670 --> 02:30:47.010
have the Nogi CSW 1 through 10. And again, we're

02:30:47.010 --> 02:30:50.399
adding more to that too. It's constantly... growing

02:30:50.399 --> 02:30:54.979
and changing. Then we have the STX kickboxing

02:30:54.979 --> 02:30:58.079
and we added the shootboxing. So that's going

02:30:58.079 --> 02:31:01.780
to be a part of that. And then we have the MMA

02:31:01.780 --> 02:31:04.239
program, which is punching, kicking, throwing,

02:31:04.360 --> 02:31:07.260
and submission. That's a very diverse program.

02:31:08.200 --> 02:31:12.719
Then I just added a jujitsu program because a

02:31:12.719 --> 02:31:15.260
lot of the guys were training jujitsu and they

02:31:15.260 --> 02:31:19.479
quit training with their trainer. Like they were

02:31:19.479 --> 02:31:21.879
out of school for a while and they quit or they

02:31:21.879 --> 02:31:25.000
moved and they don't have guys. So that was another

02:31:25.000 --> 02:31:27.899
thing. My whole jiu -jitsu program wasn't to

02:31:27.899 --> 02:31:31.319
create my own jiu -jitsu program. It was to let

02:31:31.319 --> 02:31:33.700
my guys continue in their jiu -jitsu training,

02:31:33.899 --> 02:31:38.159
some of the guys that lost their teachers, so

02:31:38.159 --> 02:31:41.319
they could continue their education and get ranked,

02:31:41.459 --> 02:31:44.700
get their ranking in jiu -jitsu because they're

02:31:44.700 --> 02:31:48.590
having a school. And right now, amazingly, my

02:31:48.590 --> 02:31:52.969
school used to be all no -gi and kickboxing and

02:31:52.969 --> 02:31:56.170
MMA, and those were the most popular programs

02:31:56.170 --> 02:31:59.450
in my school. And it's done a 180, and it's all

02:31:59.450 --> 02:32:02.930
my jiu -jitsu programs, my biggest program in

02:32:02.930 --> 02:32:05.629
my school now. And everyone wants to put a gi

02:32:05.629 --> 02:32:07.469
on. I think everyone just wants to get a belt

02:32:07.469 --> 02:32:10.590
or something. I don't know. But, hey, to each

02:32:10.590 --> 02:32:14.110
his own. And for a school, it helps with the

02:32:14.110 --> 02:32:18.629
retention. Because when you start the jiu -jitsu

02:32:18.629 --> 02:32:20.829
program, it's a 10 -year program to get your

02:32:20.829 --> 02:32:23.629
black belt. I mean, for some reason, for a lot

02:32:23.629 --> 02:32:25.790
of guys, it might be a lot faster than that,

02:32:25.889 --> 02:32:30.190
you know, four years or five years. But on the

02:32:30.190 --> 02:32:33.270
average, in a no -gi grappling program, people

02:32:33.270 --> 02:32:37.729
would only last for two years or three years

02:32:37.729 --> 02:32:41.549
at the most in the no -gi. But with the gi, they

02:32:41.549 --> 02:32:46.520
last for five to ten years. It's elongated the

02:32:46.520 --> 02:32:49.020
history of my students. And then you have the

02:32:49.020 --> 02:32:50.940
lifers, the guys that will always be around,

02:32:51.059 --> 02:32:56.159
you know, until they die. But those are the hard

02:32:56.159 --> 02:33:00.159
ones to find, the lifers. But I do have guys

02:33:00.159 --> 02:33:04.479
that have been with me for 30 -some years. You

02:33:04.479 --> 02:33:06.180
know, they still are around and they're teaching.

02:33:06.639 --> 02:33:09.579
And the thing is, is when you belt people, it

02:33:09.579 --> 02:33:13.559
empowers them also. But what I don't like is...

02:33:13.950 --> 02:33:18.250
I used to train at the Machados, and I would

02:33:18.250 --> 02:33:22.250
see a guy get his black belt and then suddenly

02:33:22.250 --> 02:33:24.489
just leave the school and go open his own school

02:33:24.489 --> 02:33:26.629
right down the road. And the black belt was a

02:33:26.629 --> 02:33:31.690
reason for someone to just go open their own

02:33:31.690 --> 02:33:34.670
school. Hey, here's a license for you to go open

02:33:34.670 --> 02:33:36.510
a school right down the road from your teacher.

02:33:37.389 --> 02:33:40.149
And I thought that was kind of odd. I didn't

02:33:40.149 --> 02:33:42.750
really care for that. So, like, for me, I never

02:33:42.750 --> 02:33:45.409
wanted to have a school, but I had a lot of guys

02:33:45.409 --> 02:33:49.530
I was training for fights. So I had a club. A

02:33:49.530 --> 02:33:51.450
club's different than a school. I just had a

02:33:51.450 --> 02:33:53.950
group of guys, and we all competed, and we trained

02:33:53.950 --> 02:33:57.129
all the time. And I was training other pro fighters

02:33:57.129 --> 02:33:58.790
that were getting ready for fights, and all my

02:33:58.790 --> 02:34:01.450
guys wanted to spar and train with those guys.

02:34:02.270 --> 02:34:04.909
And then suddenly I started branching out, and

02:34:04.909 --> 02:34:07.610
I go, hey, would you guys be interested to do

02:34:07.610 --> 02:34:10.370
a gi grappling class? And they go, I don't know.

02:34:10.430 --> 02:34:12.309
Let's try it. And then all of a sudden it just

02:34:12.309 --> 02:34:16.370
blew up. Hey, do you guys want to do a no -gi

02:34:16.370 --> 02:34:18.350
grappling, like a cat trust in our submission

02:34:18.350 --> 02:34:21.229
wrestling class? Oh, yeah. Let's try it. Blew

02:34:21.229 --> 02:34:23.809
up. You guys, we're going to do a kickboxing

02:34:23.809 --> 02:34:27.209
class. One of the classes is going to be all

02:34:27.209 --> 02:34:29.629
pads to heavy bags and drilling, and then the

02:34:29.629 --> 02:34:33.049
other is going to be all sparring. Let's do it.

02:34:33.110 --> 02:34:39.319
Boom. That took off. MMA, I only train MMA. for

02:34:39.319 --> 02:34:42.819
fighters. I don't teach normal people MMA. I

02:34:42.819 --> 02:34:46.680
used to, but on seminars I do because I've actually

02:34:46.680 --> 02:34:51.040
formatted MMA to the point where you're a normal

02:34:51.040 --> 02:34:54.840
mom and pop. You're a normal nine to five person

02:34:54.840 --> 02:34:58.379
and you can learn how to fight and utilize all

02:34:58.379 --> 02:35:02.100
the MMA stuff without having to spar with everybody

02:35:02.100 --> 02:35:05.659
and get your face punched in every day. So there's

02:35:05.659 --> 02:35:08.670
a lot of drills that that we put together for

02:35:08.670 --> 02:35:11.889
that type of training. Great training, too, because

02:35:11.889 --> 02:35:15.670
it's kickboxing and throwing and takedowns and

02:35:15.670 --> 02:35:18.549
ground and pound and submission. It's fun to

02:35:18.549 --> 02:35:21.590
learn. For some people, it's not fun to fight,

02:35:21.629 --> 02:35:24.389
though. And for others, they want to fight. And

02:35:24.389 --> 02:35:27.590
I said, okay, well, if you want to fight, you

02:35:27.590 --> 02:35:31.110
have to give us five days a week. Oh, I can't

02:35:31.110 --> 02:35:32.450
do that. Well, then you're not going to fight.

02:35:32.610 --> 02:35:35.260
You're not going to fight for us. There's a UFC

02:35:35.260 --> 02:35:37.819
down the road, UFC gym down the road that you

02:35:37.819 --> 02:35:41.159
could go to. And they'll train you. And if you

02:35:41.159 --> 02:35:42.780
think you want to be a fighter and you want to

02:35:42.780 --> 02:35:44.260
train twice a week, you're not going to really

02:35:44.260 --> 02:35:47.040
go anywhere. You know, you'll fight in a bunch

02:35:47.040 --> 02:35:50.340
of little shows around the area, but you're never

02:35:50.340 --> 02:35:52.239
going to make it to a big league training two

02:35:52.239 --> 02:35:55.180
or three days a week. You have to do five days

02:35:55.180 --> 02:35:59.239
a week. I let my guys off the hook by training

02:35:59.239 --> 02:36:03.219
three days a week. But nobody really... really

02:36:03.219 --> 02:36:05.420
aspired to go to the big leagues, and if they

02:36:05.420 --> 02:36:07.340
did, they started training five or six days a

02:36:07.340 --> 02:36:11.180
week. I trained five or six days a week for my

02:36:11.180 --> 02:36:14.000
fights. I always trained at least five days a

02:36:14.000 --> 02:36:18.379
week and twice a day, sometimes three times a

02:36:18.379 --> 02:36:20.819
day because I would do my morning workout. I

02:36:20.819 --> 02:36:25.420
would lift weights in the day and run. I always

02:36:25.420 --> 02:36:28.040
either ran or lifted weights in the day or swam,

02:36:28.040 --> 02:36:31.020
and then I had my night workout. My morning workout

02:36:31.020 --> 02:36:34.680
was more kickboxing and shootboxing and pads.

02:36:35.760 --> 02:36:38.440
My day workout was lifting weights or running.

02:36:38.600 --> 02:36:43.520
And then my night workout was wrestling and submission.

02:36:45.239 --> 02:36:48.079
But I trained five days a week, so I couldn't

02:36:48.079 --> 02:36:51.120
understand as a coach how I got guys coming in

02:36:51.120 --> 02:36:53.799
two or three days a week and not doing five days

02:36:53.799 --> 02:36:56.579
a week. You know, even four days a week to me

02:36:56.579 --> 02:36:59.319
wasn't enough. So what are you doing in three

02:36:59.319 --> 02:37:01.959
extra? Where are you those three extra days?

02:37:02.159 --> 02:37:05.420
How come you're not doing anything? Oh, I'm running.

02:37:05.559 --> 02:37:08.020
Oh, okay. Do you have a videotape of that? Can

02:37:08.020 --> 02:37:10.700
you send me your video? Show me your video of

02:37:10.700 --> 02:37:13.799
you running. Oh, I don't videotape it. Well,

02:37:13.819 --> 02:37:17.420
then I don't believe you. So that's the thing.

02:37:17.500 --> 02:37:21.340
So I made everyone run before practice. I said,

02:37:21.379 --> 02:37:22.739
bring your shoes. You're running. You guys are

02:37:22.739 --> 02:37:24.840
hitting two miles or three miles before practice.

02:37:25.739 --> 02:37:29.639
It's required. That way everyone was, I was assured

02:37:29.639 --> 02:37:33.340
that everyone was running. Just crazy. You know,

02:37:33.379 --> 02:37:36.440
things change. And the funny thing is I tried

02:37:36.440 --> 02:37:39.260
to demand as much out of people as I could as

02:37:39.260 --> 02:37:42.680
a coach. And then now the guys are even demanded

02:37:42.680 --> 02:37:47.459
more than what I was demanding. So things change.

02:37:47.700 --> 02:37:51.639
Everyone's different. And I really enjoy teaching

02:37:51.639 --> 02:37:55.079
normal people and now training more coaches and

02:37:55.079 --> 02:37:59.399
instructors than fighters. I'll leave the training

02:37:59.399 --> 02:38:02.979
fighters to the younger guys. Now that I'm older,

02:38:03.079 --> 02:38:06.100
I'd rather teach and train instructors so you

02:38:06.100 --> 02:38:07.920
could pass on the knowledge and be a good coach

02:38:07.920 --> 02:38:12.299
or teacher. That's what's important. And then

02:38:12.299 --> 02:38:14.139
I'm also working on a self -defense program,

02:38:14.280 --> 02:38:18.500
and I'm also implementing this year SHUDO. I'm

02:38:18.500 --> 02:38:21.299
going to start testing people for SHUDO because

02:38:21.299 --> 02:38:24.379
I was given permission when I retired to do so,

02:38:24.459 --> 02:38:27.159
and I kind of... tucked it away and said, I don't

02:38:27.159 --> 02:38:31.059
want to do it. But now that Shudo's kind of ended

02:38:31.059 --> 02:38:34.540
in Japan, there was some problems with the association,

02:38:34.840 --> 02:38:38.559
the organization and some of the members. And

02:38:38.559 --> 02:38:41.700
I said, well, it was such a good MMA program

02:38:41.700 --> 02:38:46.079
that I would like to continue to test people

02:38:46.079 --> 02:38:49.280
in the rankings of Shudo so they can continue

02:38:49.280 --> 02:38:52.200
to keep the art alive because otherwise it's

02:38:52.200 --> 02:38:57.440
going to die. So. I like that aspect. It's cool.

02:38:57.600 --> 02:39:00.659
It just gives you ties to Japan. Absolutely.

02:39:00.940 --> 02:39:02.920
Well, Eric, I just want to say thank you. It's

02:39:02.920 --> 02:39:05.479
been an amazing conversation. I mean, from the

02:39:05.479 --> 02:39:08.579
early, early days, the introduction to the Jeet

02:39:08.579 --> 02:39:11.819
Kune Do world, the stunt stuff, your perspective

02:39:11.819 --> 02:39:15.559
as a coach, as a fighter, it's been an amazing

02:39:15.559 --> 02:39:18.180
conversation. So thank you so much for being

02:39:18.180 --> 02:39:20.739
so generous with your time today. My pleasure.

02:39:20.899 --> 02:39:23.780
And I was very fortunate. All my training partners,

02:39:24.649 --> 02:39:27.149
If they didn't go into martial arts or fighting,

02:39:27.329 --> 02:39:30.209
most of them are all doing movies. And they're

02:39:30.209 --> 02:39:33.209
all super successful in movies right now. I think

02:39:33.209 --> 02:39:35.889
the training that we got was such high level.

02:39:35.950 --> 02:39:39.750
And then also the amount of time and effort you

02:39:39.750 --> 02:39:44.110
put into your training, it just bled over into

02:39:44.110 --> 02:39:48.690
the movie world. So all my training partners

02:39:48.690 --> 02:39:54.770
from 8711, Damon Carl. Chad Stahelski, Jeff Amata,

02:39:54.950 --> 02:39:59.450
Rich Citrone, J .J. Perry, Jonathan Eusebio,

02:39:59.569 --> 02:40:01.729
Justin Williams. All these guys are doing full

02:40:01.729 --> 02:40:05.569
time stunts. They're working on tons of movies

02:40:05.569 --> 02:40:09.649
right now and on all different aspects. You've

02:40:09.649 --> 02:40:11.989
got the Marvel group and then you got the DC

02:40:11.989 --> 02:40:16.670
comic group. And my friends are doing both. And

02:40:16.670 --> 02:40:20.329
then The Matrix and John Wick. and Wonder Woman

02:40:20.329 --> 02:40:23.770
and Batman and Superman and the Avengers and

02:40:23.770 --> 02:40:30.729
all those shows. And then Deadpool. These guys

02:40:30.729 --> 02:40:32.790
are all getting a lot of great movie parts, and

02:40:32.790 --> 02:40:35.909
I'm really happy to see my friends be successful

02:40:35.909 --> 02:40:39.209
in the movie industry. And it's kind of cool

02:40:39.209 --> 02:40:41.569
to say that I knew all these guys and used to

02:40:41.569 --> 02:40:44.329
train with all of them. I just chose the martial

02:40:44.329 --> 02:40:48.590
arts avenue. And those guys went into the entertainment

02:40:48.590 --> 02:40:52.270
industry. Someone asked me if I regretted it.

02:40:52.350 --> 02:40:55.969
And I said, no, because I think everyone's path

02:40:55.969 --> 02:40:59.329
is different. I love changing people's lives

02:40:59.329 --> 02:41:04.389
with martial arts. And not everything's all about

02:41:04.389 --> 02:41:08.229
money. Because I think in the end, when you have

02:41:08.229 --> 02:41:11.590
all the money that you can get, it's still not

02:41:11.590 --> 02:41:14.409
going to make you content in your heart. And

02:41:14.409 --> 02:41:17.889
content. And fulfillment has to come with you

02:41:17.889 --> 02:41:24.030
being joyous and happy and, I guess, content

02:41:24.030 --> 02:41:26.370
with the path that you chose and what you're

02:41:26.370 --> 02:41:29.549
doing. The one thing I did like about the stunts

02:41:29.549 --> 02:41:31.629
was hanging out with all my friends all the time.

02:41:32.549 --> 02:41:35.170
You know, it was like you're on a movie set and

02:41:35.170 --> 02:41:37.030
I'm just sitting there telling jokes and goofing

02:41:37.030 --> 02:41:39.090
off the whole time. I'm like, man, I can't believe

02:41:39.090 --> 02:41:42.290
we get paid for this. You know, you get a little

02:41:42.290 --> 02:41:45.420
bit of work. And then you're at the craft service

02:41:45.420 --> 02:41:48.000
table the whole time, just filling your pockets

02:41:48.000 --> 02:41:53.059
full of granola bars and M &Ms. I'm kidding.

02:41:53.239 --> 02:41:56.700
I don't. But my friends say, whatever you don't

02:41:56.700 --> 02:41:59.979
make in the movie, when you're working on the

02:41:59.979 --> 02:42:02.079
movie, whatever you don't make, eat in craft

02:42:02.079 --> 02:42:08.180
service. So eat the difference. So anyways, yeah,

02:42:08.299 --> 02:42:11.500
I really miss that aspect. I love the martial

02:42:11.500 --> 02:42:15.100
arts. I miss my friends, but I'm happy that everyone's

02:42:15.100 --> 02:42:17.440
successful and doing well.