This episode is brought to you by Thorne and
I have some incredible news for any of you that
are in the military, first responder or medical
professions. In an effort to give back, Thorne
is now offering you an ongoing 25 % off each
and every one of your purchases of their incredible
nutritional solutions. Now Thorne is the official
supplement of CrossFit, the UFC, the Mayo Clinic,
the Human Performance Project. and multiple special
operations organizations. I myself have used
them for several years, and that is why I brought
them on as a sponsor. Some of my favorite products
they have are their Multivitamin Elite, their
Whey Protein, the Super EPA, and then most recently,
Sinaquel. As a firefighter, a stuntman, and a
martial artist, I've had my share of brain trauma
and sleep deprivation, and Sinaquel is their
latest brain health supplement. Now to qualify
for the 35 % off, go to thorne .com, T -H -O
-R -N -E .com. Click on sign in and then create
a new account. You will see the opportunity to
register as a first responder or member of military.
When you click on that, it will take you through
verification with GovX. You'll simply choose
a profession, provide one piece of documentation,
and then you are verified for life. From that
point onwards, you will continue to receive 35
% off through Thorn. Now, for those of you who
don't qualify, there is still the 10 % off using
the code BTN. 10 behind the shield 10 for a one
-time purchase now to learn more about thorn
go to episode 323 of the behind the shield podcast
with joel totoro and wes barnett This episode
is sponsored by TeamBuildr, yet another company
that's doing great things for the first responder
community. As a strength and conditioning coach
myself who also trains tactical athletes, dissemination
of wellness information is one of the biggest
challenges. Now TeamBuildr is the premier strength
and conditioning software for tactical athletes
and there are several features that really impress
me. Firstly, there is a full exercise library,
so you, the personal trainer, does not have to
create that within your own department. Secondly,
you can send out programming, but also individualize,
which I love. So you blanket program for everyone.
Now you can tweak based on someone's injury,
someone's need to maybe drop some body composition,
rather than having to write a program for every
single person on their own. TeamBuildr also
allows you to build custom questionnaires to
collate health and wellness data. It integrates
with wearables. And I think one of the most important
things is obviously it tracks. To me, it's imperative
that we as a profession start tracking our people
from day one and then over the full span of their
career, therefore catching potential wellness
issues and injuries before they happen. Now,
if you want to try TeamBuildr, they are offering
you, the audience of the Behind the Shield podcast,
a free 14 -day trial to experience all of the
features. And if you want to take a deeper dive
into Team Builder, listen to episode 1032 with
Melissa Mercado or go to teambuilder .com. And
I'll spell that to you because it's not as you
think, T -E -A -M -B -U -I -L -D -R .com. Welcome
to the Behind the Shield podcast. As always,
my name is James Gearing and this week it is
my absolute honor to welcome on the show European
and World Strong Woman Champion, Nurse, and the
creator of Holistic Strength Coaching, Chloe
Brennan. Now in this conversation we discuss
a host of topics, from her journey into medicine,
working with special needs population, mental
health, her introduction to the strength sports,
lifting the dinny stones, coaching, hypnotherapy,
neuro -linguistic programming, and so much more.
Now, before we get to this incredible conversation,
as I say every week, please just take a moment.
Go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe
to the show, leave feedback, and leave a rating.
Every single five -star rating truly does elevate
this podcast, therefore making it easier for
others to find. And this is a free library of
well over 1 ,000 episodes now. So all I ask in
return is that you help share these incredible
men and women's stories so I can get them to
every single person on planet Earth who needs
to hear them. So with that being said, I introduce
to you, Chloe Brennan. Enjoy. Well, Chloe, I
want to start by saying two things. Firstly,
thank you to Isabel, who is one of my gym friends
and one of your clients. for helping us actually
make this connection. And secondly, I want to
welcome you today onto the Behind the Shield
podcast. Thank you very much. So where on planet
Earth are we finding you this afternoon? Nowhere
particularly exciting. I live in a town called
Tamworth in England, although we do have a theme
park, Drayton Manatee Park, and we have the Snowdome,
which is an indoor skiing place. So I don't visit
either very often, but it's nice to have. I'm
a farm boy. I grew up just outside Bath, so I
know Tamworth for the pigs. Oh, nice. The orange
pigs. Yeah, yeah. We do have loads of pigs. Where
I train actually is like on a pig farm and there
are so many. It's like the best part of training,
just looking at the pigs as I get past. All right.
Well, I would love to start there. So let's start
at the very beginning of your journey. So tell
me where you were born and tell me a little bit
about your family dynamic, what your parents
did, how many siblings. Okay, so I was born not
far from here in a town called Nuneaton, but
lived in Tamworth as a child. My mum was a mental
health nurse. My dad worked in recruitment consulting.
They split up when I was about eight years old.
Very amicable. They both still speak to each
other. I still have really good relationships
with both parents. Had a few experiences of step
parents, some really good, some not so good.
And that kind of I moved around the Midlands
a few times. So I lived in Solihull for a little
bit. I lived in Castle Bromwich for a little
bit just because of circumstances. As a kid,
I didn't have any siblings. It was just me. Had
some step siblings for a little bit and then
didn't. Yeah, and that's kind of my upbringing,
I guess, being a little... I used to relate to
Jacqueline Wilson's suitcase kid pretty well.
I'm divorced and my son is an only child and...
That's, I think, the hardest thing for a single
parent or ultimately a remarried parent is you
can control who you are as a mother, as a father.
And hopefully you can control your relationship
just like your parents did with the other person,
with the spouse that you had. But you can't control
who they're with. And I've had the same thing.
That's been the hardest thing of watching my
son grow up and not casting any specific blame,
but certain people that were in his life in the
other household. were absolutely detrimental
and it's it's so hard to watch because you can
do it now if there's a line that's stepped over
you know considerably then you go in there and
you take care of it but if it's just you know
a bad personality that you know is not exactly
nurturing your child in that particular home
it's it's one of the hardest thing i think for
for a step parent to deal with to be honest yeah
absolutely and i think like for me it wasn't
like the person in question wasn't ever so much
of a problem to me um but was a big problem to
my mum uh so then that situation ended badly
and I think that then had a huge impact on me
but at the time because it was so terrible for
my mum she maybe didn't realize the impact it
had on me at the same time so we had quite a
like fraught relationship growing up um it's
amazing now like best it's ever been. But definitely
as a teenager, it was quite sticky. She was ill
a lot when I was a kid as well. So I wouldn't
have described myself as a young carer. But I
think I definitely had to have an older head
than maybe other people my age because of those
situations that I was in. Absolutely. You hear
that a lot from siblings or children or people
that are sick. What about the impact of your
mum's profession in the mental health world not
so much you know impact specifically but what
do you remember as far as the ripple effect of
what she had to see and and the people that she
tried to take care of um through your eyes i
remember i've been very stressed um so when i
was younger um i remember like probably around
the time my mum and dad were splitting up actually
obviously with my dad working in recruitment
cvs were his things i remember him helping her
out with her CV a lot and obviously being privy
to those conversations that were happening and
vaguely remember him basically telling her how
good she was at her job and highlighting amazing
things that she'd done and kind of keeping people
out of hospital and helping them to live independently
and back before nursing became what it is now
she she's told me before about like groups that
she used to run with patients where they'd like
play badminton and It's really small things,
but things that I know had a massive impact.
And one thing that always stood out to me about
my mum and her work was how much she genuinely
cared about the people that she cared for. Yeah,
so I think that definitely stuck out. But then
later on, as the NHS changed and pressures changed,
she ended up hating her job. And I remember that
as I was going into nursing and being like, oh,
I don't get it. obviously finding out um but
yeah she was incredible at what she did and she's
now retired but she's doing support work where
I used to work where I started my kind of care
journey off and I think she's really making an
impact there as well so yeah I think impact is
a big one a big word that comes to mind when
I think about my mum's career and my insight
to it It's really sad because I'm 50 now. So
I grew up in the NHS as a child, as I was seeing
pediatricians and or the GP. You know, you're
talking about the 80s, basically the side of
the 80s. And when I reflect back on what I saw
after that and the care that my grandparents
had as they were priced out of Bupa and it was
the NHS that took care of them, it was amazing.
And I think that at its principle, the NHS is
the best health care system on the planet. But
we've seen. firstly, the kind of dismantling
of it and the privatization side, and then the
lack of effort put into making British people
healthy so we don't drain the system as well.
So what is your perspective? Because you've got
your mothers and will obviously get into your
journey into nursing, but you were in that role
as well. What are the things that are broken
in the NHS? And if you were queen for a day,
how do we fix them and get back to that beautiful
system that was initially created? I'm no politician,
so I wouldn't know where to start. But things
that were obvious to me when I was, so like when
I was working, I worked as a nurse, like a band
six, a senior nurse within a learning disability
community child and adolescent mental health
team. I was there. So this was like one of the
most deprived boroughs in the UK that I worked
in. I was the only full time member of staff
in our team. I was the only nurse in our team.
We had a waiting list of I would hate to even
say it publicly. It was ridiculous. So we were
just firefighting all the time. You couldn't
really do any preventative work, which is the
most effective work in mental health and challenging
behavior that I worked in. And yeah, it was.
It was like an impossible task. Like I went into
nursing because I wanted to help people and I
just couldn't, I couldn't do that. And I was
so stressed doing it and making no impact. And
I just felt terrible. Like there were kids who
were suicidal. I had parents who were suicidal
because their kids were so poorly. Schools overwhelmed
because they couldn't manage the behavior of
the. kids that were there so obviously in my
niche of learning disability challenging behavior
is a big thing and the the children we were working
with couldn't always communicate what was going
on so that was going on so education's then getting
impacted um and i think covid was a big one that
really hit everything hard and kind of made waiting
lists super long and we still haven't recovered
from that and that's only like my perspective
from being in a really tiny part of the NHS but
I know now seeing like my clients for example
who maybe have health problems and have to wait
x amount of time to get an appointment or be
seen and I think when when people do receive
the care the care is still very good because
most healthcare professionals really care about
what they do but they get a bad rap because the
system is broken. Yeah, no, it's funny. There's
a show in America at the moment called The Pit
and it's set in an ER in Pittsburgh. And it's
actually one of the guys that was in ER, the
original cast years ago. But it's very, very
gritty. And there's this, you know, you see the
ER and you see them overwhelmed. You see the
triage area just packed full of patients, which
is funny because when we go to COVID, that's
what people were saying. Oh, look, the ERs are
all full or the EDs or, you know, the emergency
rooms, whatever the term is around the world.
And it's like, well, this is how they look. All
the time. But you're only paying attention now.
And like you said, it's not the doctors and the
nurses. It's not the firefighters and the police
officers. It's the environment. It's the lack
of support. And when you break this down and
you refuse to support them and fund them, this
is what happens. And so the beautiful thing is
it's an opportunity to turn it around. And I
hope that we can begin kind of a renaissance
of awakening where people realize what is most
important. But it breaks my heart. And I was
talking about this the other day. When I go home,
when I go back to the UK, it resembles America
more and more every time as far as the overweight
and obesity crisis. That wasn't the case when
I was young. Like the air quotes fat person was
maybe 50 pounds overweight. Now I'm seeing, you
know, obese teenagers in the UK. And this is
a country that's supposed to have a tax based
health care system. So you would think that would
push to make people healthy and coaching and
facilities like yours and all these other places
that are. forging health would be supported because
you'd be helping the country but i think it's
the opposite and i think that's it i think because
there is so much firefighting there's less funding
into like health promotion um and that preventative
work in physical and mental health it's just
kind of pushed to the back burner because oh
my god we need to deal with all of these things
that are that we're behind on um so and it's
only the people who can afford the privilege
of that kind of private support and coaching
and health care that reap those benefits yeah
exactly all right we're going back to your early
years again what about sports and exercise what
were you playing and doing when you were in the
school ages everything uh everything so like
many people started off swimming i hate everything
about swimming i hate when wet hands touch um
the sensory feeling just it makes me squirm thinking
about it i hate getting out and having to wash
my hair every time I hate getting everything
I hate. So I quit that quite young. But there's
a point to this. When I left that, my dad said
to me, that's fine. But if you quit this, you
need to take up another sport. And that was the
theme throughout my young years that I was always
encouraged to do some kind of sport. I quit that
to do gymnastics and got very upset by what I
now know as DOMS, thinking that the gymnastics
coaches had broken all of my bones and that I
was never going to be the same again. Yes, I
did gymnastics and figured I was actually quite
big for a gymnast and just didn't really get
it. Moved into trampolining, which I did pretty
well. I got to like lower end of national level.
um in trampoline and so that was my like predominant
sport if you like through my childhood while
I was at school I put my hand to most things
um I I did play tennis for a little bit that
was like my mum's side of the family are really
into tennis but I was quite terrible at it uh
what else did I do all kinds of athletics mainly
like sprints and jumping I was asked to throw
a lot by the teachers at school but didn't and
I kick myself for it now because I think I would
have been really good at it I played football
was encouraged to play rugby but again veered
away from that which is hilarious because it's
the more like masculine in quote marks sports
that I didn't want to do because of that but
I was the biggest tomboy that I would refuse
to wear girls clothes so the two don't really
match up but uh yeah so athletics was a big one
um Football was a big one, but yeah, trampolining
was my main thing. But I was always super competitive,
like loved competing. As you were going through
the school ages, were there any indication of
your strength specifically at that point? I mean,
I was good at power sports. So I was good at
high jump. I was good at long jump. I was good
at sprinting. I was good at trampolining. And
one particular discipline I did was called double
mini trampoline, which is like a run, two tricks
and a dismount, put simply. And that's very like
power driven. So I think I always knew I was
very powerful, but I would never have. I wouldn't
have described myself as strong. I remember when
my partner Matt tried to get me to lift the first
weights I ever lifted and I was like, ah, can't
do it. So I clearly didn't think I was very strong.
What about career aspirations? When you were
in school, were you already thinking about the
nursing world or was there something else? So
I was I was very academic. I was clever. I didn't.
I found school hard, but because of the pressure
that I put on myself. So like socially, I got
on really well. Academically, I did really well.
But I think I. I was very stressed a lot at school.
Our school was a school that kind of, if you
were bright, you were put into top sets for everything
and you were made to take extra GCSEs. So I think
I've got something like 14 GCSEs. Who needs that
many GCSEs? I think the stress that that put
on me was just unnecessary. And now as an adult,
I can absolutely say, why would they do that?
We know why, to get there. points up and whatnot
but it was too much um so when I was in school
I didn't really know exactly what I wanted to
do um but I knew that it was expected of me to
go to a good university and study a degree that
uh would kind of give me opportunities thereafter
so I did initially go to the University of Sussex
and I studied psychology with aspirations of
becoming a psychologist. So I did want to help
people. I wanted to become a clinical psychologist
initially, so working within mental health. But
when I was there, I was just very depressed,
honestly. I had just had a... terrible time and
i was thinking i was like oh my god if i want
to become a psychologist i need to do this for
three more years then i need to work as an assistant
psychologist for god knows how many years and
then i need to do my phd that seems like a lot
um and that's when i kind of looked up and found
learning disability nursing and i was like ah
i can work with that population group that i
really love working with I don't have to study
for a million years and I can probably work more
hands on and have what, in my opinion, then was
more of an impact. So I went home for my mom's
birthday and I just said, I'm not going back
and quit. So talk to me about learning disability
nursing. What was the kind of scope of practice
for that role? Yeah, so I first. became familiar
with that kind of client group when I was I used
to coach trampolining and the the guy Paul Coates
who was running the club that I was at was I
think it was like head of GB disability kind
of team so we had quite a lot of people who came
quite a lot of people with autism and other learning
disabilities and I remember the one day he was
like you're coaching this trampoline today and
oh my god I was like I cried because I didn't
think I was doing a good job because the guy
was non -verbal and I didn't understand how to
communicate with him. And for me, that was really
difficult because I think I'm such an empath.
Like if I can't make, I just want to fix things
all the time and make sure people are happy.
And I was like, oh my God, I'm doing a really
bad job. Little did I know that I would go on
to absolutely love. working with this client
group I became really passionate about making
sure that people who access services could communicate
in their way like that was big for me so that
was my first experience of working in learning
disabilities and then when I found out that that
was a discipline within nurse and I was like
how perfect is this like these people have such
poor access to health care because they're not
understood. they're more likely and more at risk
of certain health conditions anyway their mental
health is worse because they don't get the same
opportunities in life um and they're just a hoot
like I had a right laugh it was a it was a good
time I think it's a kind of population that you
either love working with or you find really difficult
and I really loved it so I was like right I'm
in sign me up so once I'd left my degree I'd
applied um for that other degree and got my job
myself a job as a support worker with adults
with learning disabilities in the meantime and
was that before covid yes this was like 20 i
started university the first time in 2014 and
then i think started my nurse in 2015 maybe So
as you progress into that profession and you've
got all these different autism and downs and
all these different athletes and people that
you're working with, were you able to integrate
some of the sports into what you were doing with
them? When I was in my support work? Yes. Yeah,
yeah, absolutely. So we did groups and things
which were more kind of whatever we were doing.
But I had... Because I started going to the gym
at this point as well. So we're crossing into
I started lifting. Hmm. Maybe just as I got back
from my first spell at uni, got into the gym
then. So I was already into it when I started
my support work. And I had like two or three
people that I actually took to the gym as part
of their sessions. And because I had that insight
on lifting, other support workers were just kind
of. put them on a machine and be like here you
go cycle for an hour whereas i'd start to encourage
them to squat or do different kind of um movements
that they had never done before like touch the
dumbbells touch the barbells so that was that
was really fun um we had a laugh We just had
a competition that they have every year at the
gym I train in where Isabel is called Down for
Donuts, which actually she she organizes. But
the owners of the gym have a little girl, Kira.
I think she's 10 now who was born with Down syndrome.
So that obviously became a very close and personal.
point for them um so now we have this this fundraiser
and it's all you know the uh the athletes from
around here but the very first uh heat of every
competition is the enhanced and it's people with
autism down syndrome and it's amazing absolutely
amazing do they have to scale some things yes
but to see them you know do the same exact motions
and obviously there's varying degrees is phenomenal
and i had a guy on the show nick nickich who's
the first person with down syndrome to do the
iron man um the hawaiian iron man triathlon incredible
and that guy is a machine he would outwork 99
.9 of the humans on planet earth so yeah the
diversity that that's you know some of these
men and women have it might just be picking up
a pvc pipe for one person it might be crushing
a triathlon for another one but when i reflect
uh kind of how a lot of that population was viewed
when I was younger. I mean, the untapped potential
of that community is absolutely phenomenal. It's
huge. And I think especially for people who are
nonverbal. There's actually so much more going
on in their mind than people realize. There was
a program on recently, I think it was called
like Autism and Me or something. And it was a
guy who had always kind of been treated like
a child, but they'd come up with some kind of
technology where he could communicate his actual
thoughts. And oh my goodness, like he was so,
what's the word I want to use? When someone's
like good at talking. Articulate. Articulate,
yeah. He was more articulate than me. He was.
so intelligent and it just it breaks my heart
that people can't look past someone's physical
appearance or what they see on the outside and
kind of just put people down as all they they've
got a learning disability they can't do anything
which is utter bollocks I don't know if I'm allowed
to swear but I like I went on to get jobs and
kind of travel independently and have families
like do you know what i mean it's it's frustrating
how some of the people the learning disability
population are looked at by general society because
actually they've got a lot to give absolutely
what about i don't even know if the success story
is the right word but what are some of the most
powerful moments you remember when working with
that population oh there's loads and they're
gay from like super little things to massive
things um One thing I think would be there's
one guy who was kind of, when staff talked about
him, he's violent, he lashes out, he's really
difficult, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. No one
had actually bothered to look at his care plan.
And in that care plan, it says he has a pack
of cards that he carries in his pocket with him
all the time to help him to communicate. And
I remember the one after I'd read that care plan,
I went in and I was like, hey. Let's get your
cards out. Show me what you want to do straight
away. And it was like I'd unlocked a whole world
for him that just wasn't available because nobody
had asked him. So it was like incompetency of
the system. So that was a big one. There was
another lady. I've heard that she's passed away
now, which is like tragic. But she was in services
from a young age and we worked together. passed
her driving test she got a job at kfc she then
became a supervisor um and had a baby loads of
stuff another guy i helped to get a bus independently
he was i was driving behind the bus on the phone
to him while he sat on the back seat so he could
see me but the fact that he could get on a bus
on his own and do that 15 minute journey considering
he was scared to get on a bus with me at the
start was incredible and then just like general
relationships that I built with people and with
families I still keep in touch with some families
that I worked with like what would it be like
eight ten years ago and yeah it's a lot a lot
of things really it's really hard to articulate
in one small chunk but a lot of people had huge
impact on my life and the same when i was nursing
there was a few people that kind of you remember
certain certain cases for sure what about the
uh the other side a lot of people had on the
show that um have educated you know people listening
to this podcast especially if they're first responders
on some of the idiosyncrasies of some of the
special needs population as far as us responding
as a police officer or a paramedic, but also
some of the dangers and them being preyed upon
physically and sexually is another thing that
I don't think most people realize. Were you exposed
to that at all? Yeah. Mate and hate crime is
huge, particularly in the adult population. It
happens in children's services like 100%, especially
when you have... a lot of children together who
haven't necessarily been taught appropriate relationships
or don't understand appropriate relationships
and don't know the boundaries and then kind of
prey on each other sometimes because they don't
understand that it's wrong so that some people
are vulnerable in that sense. to one another
but also like in adult services especially in
when people were living independently um taking
advantage of people coming into their homes taking
money from them um I worked with on my very very
first placement she was the very first patient
that I met um she had all kinds of trauma and
different diagnosis and she to talk to her you
probably wouldn't know that she had a learning
disability you just think Oh, wow, that's a lot.
But she actually contracted hepatitis from a
taxi driver that had been taking advantage of
her, along with multiple other things that had
gone on. It's awful because when you're in those
services, you become so desensitised to things.
You hear the most horrific things, and abuse
from parents to... to kids but I had one person
who um mum was a big drinker he was he was a
teenager and he never ate proper meals at home
like when you went into the house there were
just like stale crisps in boxes around um he'd
never spoken a word bearing in mind he was 14
still wore a continence pad didn't go to the
toilet independently Within a month of moving
to a residential home with a plan in place from
us and an amazing support team where we lived,
he was speaking three words and going to the
toilet by himself at 14 years of age. So I think
sometimes people's learning disabilities are
exacerbated by the environments that they're
in. So, yeah, there's a lot that goes on and
I think you can never be too careful when it
comes to safeguarding. Yeah. It was something
I was naive to early in my career, but you know,
as we progress through and we're taught about,
you know, that community about human trafficking,
you know, some of these other things, you start
to open your eyes. Yeah. Yeah. It really opens
your eyes. Well, let's kind of transition to
the lifting side and then we'll get to, you know,
when you made the leap of faith out of nursing,
but when, when did you start, you know, weight
training at all? And then how did that transition
into power sports specifically? okay so I like
many women started going to the gym walk it went
this was probably like I'd done bits at uni but
when I got back from uni the first time so I
would have been 18 19 um would walk around the
gym look at the weight section like I want to
do that and then be very intimidated. I'd maybe
go on the leg press. The leg press was okay.
I might do that and some lat pull downs and then
would quickly go back to the cross trainer or
the rowing machine for the remainder of the hour
that I was there and then leave. I tried some
body pump classes that I was absolutely terrible
at and really didn't enjoy that much. I was just
like, this is terrible. No, no, thank you. And
then my partner, Matt, introduced me to, so he'd
become part of an organisation called International
All Round Weightlifting, Iowa. And that was where
I started actually lifting using free weights.
I worked with, there's a guy called Steve Gardner.
He was a high level British powerlifter, a strong
man, competed with some of the greats, trained
with Jeff Capes. like awesome guy and he him
and his wife Karen who I think was the first
woman that I'd really seen lifting weights because
lifting weights obviously wasn't on my Instagram
algorithm then I don't know if there even was
an algorithm then to be honest um so I just hadn't
seen it before and even though she was like late
50s and wasn't lifting like huge amounts of weight
anymore I was like wow this is cool um so that's
how I got into lifting weights really a bit of
an obscure introduction but it was one of the
best things that I've ever done so what was the
beginning of that journey then when did you have
or maybe even people around you have an aha moment
that you between the way you trained and you
know the body that you had that you actually
had the ability to be very good at this particular
sport yeah so I think like within the Iowa pretty
much straight away um when I went down I was
lifting decent weights I would say like I think
I had like a 90 kilo deadlift the first time
I deadlifted um I can't remember many other numbers
but I was getting past 100 kilos very quickly
my squat was up near 100 kilos um yeah I was
I just took to it really well and I think People
were kind of like, oh, you're quite good at this.
So they started entering me into competitions.
I didn't really have a clue what was going on.
I just turned up anyway and had a nice time.
And then so strongman wise, I actually wanted
to do powerlifting when I did all round weightlifting
strongman. Just I was like, oh, I don't know
about that. But my partner, Matt, did a strongman
competition and they were a person down on the
deadlift. so they were like who wants to do it
anyone from the crowd join in matt pushed me
and was like chloe will do it they put the weight
to 100 kilos and i pulled 20 reps and they were
like ah you'd be quite good at this strong woman
thing um so i was invited down to a gym um in
true chloe style entered a couple of competitions
that year so that was 2016 then 2017 i did um
i entered the england's strongest woman qualifier
didn't really expect anything to come of it i
just didn't want to look like an idiot i won
that i then went on to came second to come second
at england's strongest woman and third at britain's
strongest woman and that's when i was like i
think i'm okay at this and just to clarify because
you're talking about his weights what was your
body weight at that point so when i um was told
I'd be good at this I was in the 70 kilo 70 something
range I can't remember exactly and I was told
on that day um if you can get your weight down
to 63 kilos you'll be really competitive and
I was like oh my god that's that's a lot um but
I was really fortunate that I had um someone
i actually went to primary school with um charlie
b stone he's cb nutrition approached me because
he saw i put on instagram i'm doing fasted cardio
to lose weight was i like i was like running
when the cars were there and stopping when they
weren't and starving myself um he helped me get
down to that weight class and that's where i
competed for the first four years of my career
so yeah when i One of those competitions, I was
at 60, 63 kilos or a bit below. Because that
puts it into context. I had Kristen Rose on the
show, but she's a big, strong woman. Yeah, she's
amazing. You're talking about a much smaller
frame pulling those weights. Yeah, I didn't realize
at the time quite what would happen. It got a
little bit out of hand. So talk to me about that.
Lead me through that journey as a competitor
for us and we'll get to the coaching and training
side. okay oh goodness so yeah it was a bit of
a roller coaster really I the first year I totally
didn't expect um and it was truly amazing and
at that time I was watching people like Donna
Moore, Jenny Todd, Farrah Fonseca they were all
going off and competing at the Arnold which at
the time was world's strongest woman we didn't
have OSG that we have now So my ultimate dream
was I just want to be able to compete at the
Arnold. I didn't want to win, didn't want to
podium. I just wanted to be good enough to compete
there. That was my ultimate. So over the next
couple of years, I did pretty well. I continued
to podium at things. My second year was really
hard, actually, because I'd had such a good first
year. I felt a lot of pressure. There wasn't
any pressure. It was, of course, internal. But
I thought. people expected things of me so that
was I put a lot of unnecessary pressure on myself
and didn't enjoy it as much as I should have
at times um but did did really well I then qualified
for my first Arnold through Britain's Strongest
Woman and I went and competed there in 2020 that
was my first ever international competition and
I came fourth so in the Arnold you basically
have Two days of prelims and a finals day. Only
the top four make the finals. And considering
my dream was to compete at the Arnold, I let
out the loudest scream you've ever heard when
I realized I did make finals. Yeah, it was wild.
So I finished up fourth there. And that's when
I was like, oh, we play internationally now.
I did my first ever World's Strongest Woman OSG
in 2021. And I came fifth in the under 64s again.
I was like, ha, I won the yoke event, which I
was like, didn't expect. Everyone was telling
me I would, but I didn't really have any benchmark.
I didn't know what to compare it to. So that
was a highlight. That was really cool. 2022 was
the year for me, I think. Just insane. So I entered
the Arnold Amateur for that year as well. and
came second which podium at the arnold was blew
my mind um but i saw that they were doing the
dinny stone record that year and i was like huh
but you haven't invited me and i so i did do
the dinnies in 2019 missed that bit out that
was quite significant um and they were inviting
all of the pro women who had never touched the
dinny stones and i was like well Sometimes you
have to chase your own opportunities. So I emailed
around and did get in and took the record. That
was huge for me because obviously competing against
Rebecca Roberts and Donna Moore. Absolutely.
Like Donna Moore at the time had won three World's
Strongest Woman titles. Rebecca was the current
World's Strongest Woman in the open class. And
I was the one who took the record. I was like,
oh, I'm quite strong. I can I think I can do
well. And from there. I think the rest the rest
of that year then I was like I want I was confident
enough to say I wanted to win things and to actually
go for it whereas before I think I've been oh
it would be nice to participate and my mindset
flicked like I want to win because it feels really
good so um I won the Arnold Pro UK that year
and then I absolutely bombed at Worlds I came
14th um And I had someone say to me, I understood
after we had a conversation, it was crossed wires.
We just misunderstood each other. But she basically
told me if I didn't do certain things that some
people do in this sport, I would never be able
to hang with the people at the top. Like I just
it was impossible for me to be competitive in
that weight class. So that's I'd moved up to
under 73s at this point. And I like a challenge.
So the following year, 2023, I won Europe's Strongest
Woman, won Natural World's Strongest Woman and
came third at OSG. And I think that was where
I peaked. So just so I'm clear, the actual strongest
man or woman events are not natural athletes?
No. So, yeah, there's only like natural strongman
and... I believe it's BNSF and the World Heavy
events. They're the tested competitions and others
are not. Gotcha. So that's a hell of an achievement
then. Yeah, it felt pretty significant. To me,
it doesn't matter. I've never been one to say
it's unfair. I choose to compete in that federation
and I believe that if I work hard enough, there's
no reason why I can't compete. which I have done
so but yeah it's I guess it's it's a factor absolutely
well I think the sad thing the other side of
this story and we've seen it with um you know
Eddie Hall a lot of other people is you know
sometimes performance comes at the cost of longevity
and wellness and you know where is that line
for you as a human being you know what are you
willing to give up yes you might podium in this
one area but is it going to be detrimental to
your actual health later on yeah that's a big
thing for me like I enjoy it and I like winning,
but I like having my life as well and realize
that there's a life outside and after this. Absolutely.
Well, I just want to do one kind of revisit of
the Dinnie Stones because that was how I came
across you, was that very lift that was all over
Instagram. Again, if you've created your algorithms
to have positive athletes and that kind of thing.
So talk to me about the history of those. Are
those Irish stones or are they Scandinavian?
Scottish. Scottish, okay. Yeah, yeah. So the
history of them basically is the Potarch Bridge
in Scotland, in Aberdeenshire. The Dinnie Stones
originally were used as like counterweights for
building that bridge. And legend has it that
Donald Dinnie, who was an insane athlete back
in his day, like actual insane athlete, Highland
Games athlete, dancer, athletics. everything
um yeah legend has it he crossed the bridge carrying
those stones they were then lost for a while
and then rediscovered I think in this I always
get confused I think it's the 70s by David Webster
and then became a bit of a a thing again um and
lifting them became a feat and then the rogue
replicas I think are also from Scotland if I'm
not mistaken um very very similar weights and
they're kind of used at the arnold as the the
replicas brilliant my apologies to the people
of scotland for getting that wrong they'll come
after you with sticks they will i'm down south
um all right well then let's you know as you're
going through this and you are you starting to
coach at this point as well or are you purely
still a competitor yeah so i started coaching
in 2020 um And I left my nursing in 2021. It
was a very quick transition. I didn't expect
it. But yeah, I went full time with my coach
in 2021. So had been doing that a while by that
point. Well, two years. Well, let's kind of hit
that very obvious point as well then. What was
the COVID experience like through your eyes?
Awful. Awful. Well. I mean, I think I was kind
of lucky in a sense because of being a key worker.
I did get to socialize and go out and, well,
not socialize, go to work. Did you get invited
to all the government parties they were having?
No, unfortunately not. So when I was working
in CAMHS, we were predominantly working from
home. We weren't able to visit families unless
it was an emergency. And then I was, so that
time was awful because. I had parents phoning
me. Obviously, their kids were out of routine,
which was like the worst thing that could happen
for them. And it also meant that these parents
had become full time carers for their children
again and their children were quite complex and
severe needs. So the amount of phone calls we
had from parents just saying I can't cope was
terrible. And like I, I couldn't do anything.
I just felt helpless, which was awful. Awful,
awful. And then I was redeployed to a female
acute mental health ward. So not learning disability,
just very unwell women who also happened to have
COVID, a couple of them. We didn't have the correct
PPE at the start of that placement either. Yeah,
it was like being thrown in at the deep end because
it's although I had experience in mental health,
not in female acute. That's a whole other. ball
game but i i did i learned a lot and i enjoyed
it but it was tough like it was hard trying to
explain to people who are really unwell why they
can't go on to the rest of the war because they
were separated onto a corridor because of the
whole guidelines and whatnot they would sometimes
understandably become quite aggressive and confused
um The leave wasn't quite the same as what it
would normally be, so people felt really trapped.
I think being a patient in a mental health hospital
in COVID must have been the scariest experience.
As if these people aren't poorly enough already,
I got to leave that ward every day. I cannot
imagine how they felt. It must have just been
awful. My experience of COVID was through their
eyes because it was just so poignant. I couldn't
not think about that. So me having to stay at
home and spend afternoons out in the garden while
the sun was shining hardly felt like a hardship.
I think what's so sad, and I started adding an
extra episode a week during COVID because I saw
all the misinformation. I saw the fear mongering
and I stood in the middle and said, look, this
is a real virus. But what, you know, the other
factor that you're all missing is the health
of the individual. Let's get people as healthy
as possible. I know in the UK, Joe Wicks, for
example, was one of the beacons in that. But
the healthier and happier, you know, the less
stressed a human being, the more chance they
have a better outcome from COVID. And then as
we transition through the way it was done, I
think was just done so poorly. There was isolation
needed, I think, for certain groups, but the
rest of the population could have kept the world
moving on. And then everything was kind of swept
under the rug, like we don't want to talk about
it anymore on the back end. And I think it's
such a disservice because the mental health impact
of that, the lockdowns and the isolation on all
the people, whether it was cancer patients that
didn't get a checkup and ended up dying, whether
it was cardiac patients not getting their chest
pain checked in, whether it was a mental health
patient that wasn't getting their meds filled.
I think we're still seeing the ripple effect
now and just be curious your your perspective
on that yeah no I think definitely and I think
also like kids that were born and or not that
were born but like what that were at that primary
school age where you start socializing like the
impact that's gonna have on mental health services
and just like education in general because then
they didn't learn properly is huge and I do think
it was it's very strange now like at the time
it was like oh my god life has changed forever
and now it is very much like you're talking about
another world isn't it's like I don't I don't
remember that like it feels so bizarre it's so
bizarre I think it's been referred to before
hasn't it as like an international kind of traumatic
event because it's everybody went through it
everybody had different experiences of it but
it was just so like abrupt and weird and uncomfortable
and unpredictable no one really knows how to
cope with it yeah well i look at it like this
after world war one people concluded okay let's
not just dig two ditches and and fire rockets
each other you know for for several years so
that's not a good way of resolving anything so
even though you know it was completely different
you never saw trench warfare again after that
it's the same thing you can't have an event like
that And then refuse to analyze it and go, what
do we do well? And what do we do really badly?
And so if not, if when we get the next virus
sweeping through, have we made our population
healthier? You know, are we developing vaccines
if they are going to be one of the solutions
ahead of time for some of these things? So we
can appease the people and say, this has actually
been going for a long time. You know, we'll be
building trust in certain figures. So God forbid
something happens. You're familiar with that
person that tells you on television that you
should do A, B and C. But nothing has been analysed.
No apologies have been made. No one's been held
accountable when they were incredibly wrong.
And no one's been praised for doing the right
things. It's just all kind of like we don't want
to talk about it anymore. And that's a huge disservice
for the people that we actually lost from COVID.
Because the only way we honour them is make sure
that we do it better next time. Yeah, we mustn't
forget though, we did all clap on a Tuesday night
for our key workers. Exactly. exactly someone
one of my guests it was another british person
i forget who it was now but they said all that
clapping did was put the responsibility squarely
on the shoulders of the frontline workers so
basically as a citizen you could kind of feel
good about yourself and then go back and watch
tiger king but it didn't bring any more ppe any
more nurses you know anything that you guys actually
needed out there yeah the first time it felt
good i remember going out and like joining in
and being like Like we are appreciated for what
we're doing. And then it became very hollow after
a few, a few months. Yeah. I think they call
it virtue signaling these days. Yeah. Yeah. That's
it. All right. Well, so you've had this path
of, you know, of nursing, taking care of special
needs populations and you're in this acute mental
health setting and you've begun training as well.
You've begun coaching. What was that trigger
point and what gave you the courage to take that
leap of faith when many people would have just
stayed in that system? I think it was a combination
of things. I think starting up coaching in the
first place is something I'd never considered.
I remember being on a podcast, it's British Strength
Magazine. And he said to me, have you ever thought
about coaching? And I was like, no, like Jenny
writes the numbers and I do the thing. That's
how it works. And then that kind of triggered
conversations with my coach, Jenny. She could
see obviously the stress that I had at work,
how that was impacting my performance. And also
kind of, she knows me as a person. She knew me
and she was like, and she was kind of saying,
you would be a really good coach. Why don't you
give it a go? So after some persuasion, I was
like, right, okay, I guess we're going to start
this then. Can you hear that when he's chewing
it? no you're fine honestly I always tell people
with this podcast people have dogs people come
to the door you know I'm not pretending to be
some fancy BBC studio this is a real person podcast
with dogs okay okay um yes so um I was like okay
right I'll I'll give this a go I remember when
I got my very first client she's called um Natasha
she was awesome uh And I was like, I remember
coming off the phone to her and being like, Matt,
I've got my first client. I can't believe it.
Like, it's so funny, like thinking about it now.
But it felt like such a big thing, like that
someone was trusting me with their training.
So whilst I was kind of starting to coach, I
got my personal training qualifications and went
on to do kind of British weightlifting and things.
I just love learning. So, yeah, I started picking
that up and got quite a lot of interest. I was
just flat out busy, like trying to be an athlete,
working full time, running a coaching business
that was doing quite well. And I thought, you
know what? I think I really love doing this.
I'm actually I'm helping people every single
day and not just with their training. People
are being happier, healthier, more confident.
I'm making a difference and that's what I want
to do. So do I see myself nursing long time?
that I don't know I don't really want to go into
management and I'm already kind of band six and
I don't see things getting any easier I'll aim
to leave my job in about five years like I'll
build this up slowly um and it escalated very
quickly and then I can't remember exactly what
it was I think I'm all I don't know I think I'm
quite if I'm gonna do something I'm gonna do
it I'm not going to half -arse it. And that started
from when I left university. And that was a scary
decision, but it turned out well. So I think
I just thought, well, what's the worst that can
happen? I'm already earning enough through my
coaching that it can cover what I need it to
cover. So if it doesn't work out, I'll just get
another nursing job. There's plenty going around.
So, yeah, I remember like handing in my notice.
I was absolutely bricking it. I was so scared,
but I knew it was something that I had to do.
And I had a lot of kind of kickback from colleagues
and not not in a nasty way. I think they just
didn't understand. So they were like, you're
leaving a nursing job to go and be a personal
trainer. And I was like, well, kind of. Yeah,
because it makes me happy. And it's the best
thing I ever did. I remember I went back for.
another colleague's leave and do about three
weeks after I'd left and I remember walking in
that office and feeling so free and being like
I don't regret this decision at all I can live
whatever life I want to live now the amount of
freedom I've unlocked for myself yes I have to
work really hard because I now own a business
but it's on my terms um so yeah that was that
was quite a key moment walking back in and being
like this is it and I feel very privileged that
I've always been very supported with the decisions
that I make so even though my mum at the time
especially didn't really approve of it because
it was well what about your NHS pension that
you know um and even to an extent like my dad
of what about like the financial security that
you've got now so but I was still supported even
though they didn't necessarily see what I saw
And I know that not everybody has that. And although
I wasn't as confident as I am now, I'm really
appreciative that I had the confidence to do
that because I know that's a pretty ballsy move.
So, yeah, I feel thankful to my upbringing and
to my past self for going for it. I left the
fire service six and a half years ago now. And
it was one of those things, the same kind of
thing. had a meniscus injury. I'd had it snipped
and rehab back to full duty. But at that place
that I worked at that point, again, there was
that knot in my stomach about going back because
I knew I was going to go into an environment
that wasn't going to improve. And I was making
a difference doing what I do now and bless my
wife. She supported me. I took a leap of faith.
And again, the pension is the carrot on the stick
for us. And I was like, screw it. I just cashed
out what I had and gave myself a salary for a
year and a half to cover everything until hopefully
I get some money coming in. But the same thing,
I woke up the next day and I've worked with some
amazing people and the purpose of the job is
so incredible and so rewarding. But all the people
that you have to deal with that aren't, that
you work with that are nothing but... you know
pushing back and toxic i was like none of them
matter none of it doesn't matter rank or anything
like they are literally dead to me now in a positive
way and so you realize that yeah i wake up i
determine if i you know lose my house and and
starve or you know we keep this going and we
figure out a way to keep the lights on but like
you said it's on my terms and it's amazing the
power that you have when there's no emails and
and you know ranks that you have to go through
that you can just say i'm gonna do this thing
and you do that thing yeah absolutely it's um
it's something not many people get to experience
but those that do no absolutely well i'm curious
have you found yourself training police fire
military at all um i I've trained a police officer.
I do train ex -military and we do have one police
officer. She's working with my other coach at
the moment. So it hasn't been like a prominent
theme, but we definitely have worked or I've
worked with people in that kind of with that
service history. The reason I ask, I got into
the strong man style training, not competing
through. I don't know if you ever heard of a
guy, Julian Pano. He's behind StrongFit. Amazing
guy. One of those kind of, you know, strength
and conditioning mad scientists. But his real
kind of rise came from, for lack of a better
word, unfucking CrossFit athletes that had all
these imbalances that kept getting hurt. You
know, women that were peeing themselves during
competition. He's like, look, this isn't normal.
This is all, you know, things that you're missing
in this kind of high level repetitive training.
And I've been a CrossFit athlete or CrossFit,
you know, gym athlete for a long time. So I came
through that arena. I thought it was fantastic.
But it does leave issues. You know, you're always
pronated on the bar, on the pull -up bar. I mean,
there's a lot of kipping. So you're kind of...
Oh, my goodness. I'm blanking on the term now.
Posterior chain, you know, is underdeveloped
a lot of times. And so when I started looking
at his training and it was a lot of sandbags,
a lot of sleds, you know, ropes, that kind of
thing. It made me realize this is what is so
pertinent to my profession that we do all these
movements. We push, we pull, we drag, we climb,
we carry. And so when I saw you lifting the stones
and then kind of learn more about you. It seemed
like you were such a great kind of go to coach
when it comes to it could be male or female,
especially the smaller athletes. And I was one.
I'm six foot tall, but I was only 168 pounds
going into the fire service that have to work
on their strength. We have some behemoths in
the fire service and law enforcement. They have
to work on their agility and their cardio usually.
But there's a lot of smaller people that want
to. be in these roles and i think that the training
that you offer especially with the strong strong
man strong woman implements are so pertinent
especially to the fire service yeah definitely
and i did have a client recently actually who
was um she was in the fire service and one of
the reasons she came to me was like i want to
be able to do my job better i want people i want
people to look at me and think that they can
trust me like in those kind of life or death
situations and strongman was a big part of that
so i can definitely like you say it is very functional
that kind of push -pull carry that you're having
to do all the time absolutely so when you got
into the coaching space what was it that you
realized that you were bringing to the table
that maybe other coaching platforms weren't yeah
um what was really important to me was in um
in nursing we always bang on about person -centered
care holistic care um so to me like holistic
strength coaching just made sense so I wanted
to not just make people strong but look after
the whole person and take everything into consideration
not just here's your plan get on with it like
actually okay let's dig a little bit deeper let's
look at what your life is like how can we work
with that to make sure you get the best outcome
but also like I've learned a lot about mental
health in my role and I didn't want to waste
that so kind of supporting people with confidence
and I used to work in diagnosing ADHD and autism
as well so my knowledge in those kind of neurodiversity
areas is good so I've and I've had people who
have been diagnosed as adults and then kind of
helping them figure that out because the NHS
doesn't they don't know what that means they're
just given a label so I've been able to to work
through that so that's been helpful that's kind
of i'm drifting off but what makes us different
is that we do look at the whole person and we
offer a truly holistic service so more recently
the last couple of years i've really wanted to
hone in on that so we've got a nutritionist that
works with us um i have a physiotherapist who
is on our team as well um as well as two coaches
with different backgrounds so we like we're all
encompassing we can help you with every element
that's gonna make your training better but also
hopefully your life and I think that's something
that is missing and you like especially with
the physio you'll get a client who gets injured
and then they'll go and see someone you've never
heard of and then you'll ask them to give feedback
and then it'll all get lost in translation and
then you can't actually rehab properly because
you're working on a different page to their therapist
and it's just a bit of a disaster so the vision
I had was making sure that we can look after
a whole person and do it well and i think we
have such good retention because people feel
valued not just because they've been given a
training plan what is your kind of philosophy
on the balance between performance and longevity
you're going to have some athletes i'm sure that
you coach that are looking to be on that number
one podium and that's going to be a certain track
but I think a lot of average people, even in
the CrossFit space, for example, they're not
looking to go to the CrossFit Games, but they're
training like they're going to the CrossFit Games
and then they get broken because they're not
doing all the accessory work and they're not
understanding nutrition and the sleep and all
these other areas. So what are you able to do
holistically to kind of find that higher performance,
but at the mother or father or the firefighter
or the accountant level rather than the Arnold
level, for example? From the off, I say if you
want to reach that level, it's going to be a
journey. I'm not one for quick fixes. I've actually
turned people away because they're like, I want
to do this in this period of time. I'm like,
well, I can't guarantee that. So if you're adamant
that's what you want, I'm probably not the person
for you. I can get you results. I can get you
the results that you want, but you're going to
have to work for a period of time to get them.
So being honest. from the start but also like
meeting people where they're at I think is a
huge one especially when we're talking about
people who want to perform but our mums work
full -time have other commitments and often on
an initial call with someone one of the questions
I'll ask is like how how often can you train
and they'll go five days and I'll ask again I'll
say how often can you really train because people
when they start a process want to go so balls
out and want to go so extreme that they set themselves
up for failure and I'm not doing that like I
won't accept that so I'll really try and meet
people where they are and say okay this is where
you want to be you'll go into the gym non maybe
once a week at the moment let's meet in the middle
let's make this realistic so that you feel like
you're winning straight away we don't want you
to feel like it's you're constantly chasing I
want you to feel like you've got easy wins So
I think that's a big thing. And then once you
build someone's confidence up of, oh, I've gone
to the gym twice this week, that's more than
I've ever done. That's a win. And then you can
then start getting into the nitty gritties of,
OK, how's your food been? Like, are you drinking
enough? Are you sleeping enough? And working
on all of those things rather than just hammering
them with volume and killing them off in the
gym, because ultimately they're going to fail.
They're going to get injured. They're going to
feel tired and then they're going to leave. And
then I haven't helped them at all. You mentioned
sleep. That's a big key word in a lot of the
things that I talk about. When you were in the
nursing space, were you doing any of the night
shifts or were you days normally? I did some
night shifts as a student, but I worked in community.
So I was nine to five Monday to Friday, which
was nice. Shift work was not for me. I feel fortunate
that I could choose a job where I didn't have
to do that. But I've worked with people who work
shifts, and it's not great for you, is it? It's
tough. What about on the performance side? Because
the problem is, at the moment, we're just trying
to get people to understand that shift work is
really bad for your health, full stop. But we've
got a lot of chess beaters that are all in on
the job, and that's amazing. But they're missing
the point. that you know the the rest recovery
sleep is is imperative for high level of performance
so what have you seen as far as because you mentioned
about the stress even being detrimental to your
performance what have you seen in your world
maybe even some of the people that you're you're
coaching or some people you trained alongside
as far as the the importance of sleep of this
overall performance piece yeah i think i think
over training is a big thing um And that then
means people have poor sleep because they're
so wired all the time. But just in general, like
if it's one of the things, again, that I ask
when people very first speak to me, how's your
sleep? And often those who feel like they're
banging their heads against a wall and aren't
progressing, they're plateaued. It's because
they're not sleeping. Like as soon as I say,
OK, let's. do xyz to make your sleep better even
if they don't cut like i do this on the i guess
like discovery call before they're even a client
i might do this and then they'll message me a
few days like oh i feel really great and i'm
like well yeah of course you do because you've
closed your eyes and healed um it's it's one
of the fundamentals and it's i know when people
And my clients will know as well because they'll
put in their check -in, I didn't sleep well this
week, and their sessions will reflect that. But
we try to raise that awareness. So in their check
-in every week, it's what are your energy levels
like? How's your recovery? And in the sub to
that question, it's how's your food been? How
have you slept? What's your hydration been like?
And so often they'll be like, oh, I had loads
of crap sessions because I didn't sleep. Yeah,
yeah, exactly. Now, what about that as far as
the ethos of how someone is feeling versus the
weights that they're given that day? So we use
RPE a huge amount because I think, especially
when we're working with everyday people who aren't,
they're not full -time athletes. They have a
life. They have all the stresses. They're not
going to be at their best every time. So to expect
them to... lift more and more and more all the
time isn't doable um so yeah we utilize the rpe
scale a huge amount getting people to be honest
with that is another matter but we really try
to explain that of like so your rpe eight on
a day where you're well rested you haven't been
at work for a few days you're fueled up really
well it's going to be heavier than if you haven't
had any sleep you've had an argument with your
partner and you haven't eaten all day and that's
okay but they're both still rpe8 you're still
training at the same intensity it's just relative
to how you're feeling on that day um so yeah
i think it's very important to take into consideration
and again it sets people up for success because
if i'm programming and i do program percentages
at times especially if people are in prep for
competitions there's certain weights that they
need to hit and that's how it is um but most
of the time I'll use RPE because if I set someone
a number and they're not recovered they don't
hit the number what are they going to say to
me I'm shit I'm a failure I can't do it I'm a
bad athlete and that isn't conducive to performance
at all like because mindset comes into it right
so if you constantly are failing in your sessions
because you can't meet what's required of you
your mindset's going to take a battering and
then again your performance will get hindered
even more I was talking to someone the other
day. One of the things I do, I just do a once
a week, I coach a free class for tactical athletes.
So please fire me. And every so often, every
like two or three months, we'll do a sandbag
walk to a parking structure, carry the bags all
the way up to the roof, drop them. And then I'll
just check in with everyone. But how are you
doing? Why are you even coming to class at the
moment? You know, what's going on at home? And
it's amazing that you start learning about people's
background and their true why. Like one was a
victim of domestic abuse, so she wants to be
stronger. And another one's going through a divorce
and another one's doing just fine at the moment,
you know, whatever it is. And so you can tap
into that a lot more rather than, you know, what
do you want? Oh, I just I want to be more cut.
I want to lose weight. I want to be stronger.
And those are very, very kind of wishy washy
adjectives. You have a really interesting lens,
though, because you came from that mental health
space first and then got into coaching. Talk
to me about the importance of understanding the
athletes' mental state and finding their why
as far as the actual results that you're seeing
in the gym itself. It's huge. And I mean, if
I understand someone and I know someone, which
I know all of my one -to -one athletes, I know
well because I talk to them. like we have conversations
like this even if I don't see them in person
we have video calls so that I get to know them
and it means like I can if they're having a bad
day I've got more insight into why they might
be having a bad day so rather than them texting
me being like I've had a really bad session and
me going never mind I can dig a little bit deeper
and find out why but I think it also works the
other way for motivation if I know why someone
is doing something I can remind them of that
remember why you started this that's why we're
doing it and that's why you're going to turn
up and why you're going to do this program and
not give up because xyz um and i've also more
recently started another business in life coaching
nlp and hypnotherapy and a lot of the interest
has come from people wanting to improve their
performance again because they recognize that
mindset plays such huge part and they've got
so many self -limiting beliefs that hold them
back in their life and in their performance because
they've experienced trauma they've got a fear
of failure or you know don't think that they're
good enough or they've had a bad experience in
competition and can't move past it so it's it's
uh and I think it's it's becoming more of an
accepted thing and more spoken about thing when
I started I felt I feel like it was just get
strong but that's because I trained with a load
of big burly men i think now there's a much bigger
space of like well -being and how that goes hand
in hand with performance what about your mindset
when you think back to someone pointing at a
weight and saying you can lift that was there
a negative voice in your mind or or do you think
the the journey that you've taken up to that
point created that i can mentality at that point
I think because when I started, I didn't expect
to be competitive. I just thought it was fun.
I was like, oh, yeah, I'll try that. I've very
much all my life had a can -do attitude, not
a can't, I think. I've definitely had doubts
and I've definitely failed at things, but it's
never really knocked me that much. I'm like,
well, I'll just try something else or I'll try
again. I definitely have had limiting beliefs
from kind of other... factors and i think for
me the thing that has hindered me the most is
um people pleasing and um not perfectionism because
i i was recently told perfectionism is just procrastination
dressed up which i agree with um but what wanting
everything to be right um that's what's held
me back the most i would say rather than like
you can't do it it's what if i can't do it right
or And people expect me to do this. So if I can't
do this, then I'll let everybody else down. Not
being scared of it because I'm scared of the
weight, but that kind of wider implication. And
I think the factors that I spoke through earlier
where I really built up my confidence helped
to overcome that. But I've done work with a mindset
coach and it was really helpful. I think one
of the interesting things about strong man, strong
woman implements that I've seen with my own eyes,
when you take a group of firefighters, they might
be the, you know, the athletic rock star all
the way through to the man or woman that maybe
hasn't done the exercise for several years and
should have. You try and get them into, for example,
you know, a CrossFit style workout. you know
more often than not they're not going to do it
they're going to be intimidated they're going
to feel like it looks stupid god forbid you put
in you know a snatch or something complex like
that but with the strong man woman implements
you literally say hey just push that sled over
to that cone oh okay oh you did it yeah and and
so i find that those tools actually create a
lot more self -belief like i can mentality and
even yeah There was a local firefighter here
that is a strongman competitor and he was getting
us lifting bags. And I lifted more than I realized
I could just by simply watching other people
do it and going, all right, hold my beer. Let's
try this. So I find that those tools, that particular
kind of community, of course, there's a certain
point where you're going to hit a wall. But I
think that taking away that intimidation of the
complexity of a movement and simply picking up
a bag, carrying kettlebells, you know, pushing
or pulling a sled. it does create more of that
positive mindset rather than, you know, you trying
to do a snatch, getting frustrated and saying,
I'm never going to do this. It's stupid. Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely. I think things can be scaled
back so easily, but still look really impressive
as well. Like truck pulls, for example, most
people can do a truck pull, but if you don't
know you can do a truck pull, you're going to
think, Oh my God, that's insane. Like I had a
client, one of my very first clients loved her
and she would, she had quite like a, difficult
job and she would be like if i can pull a truck
i can do anything i was like damn right you can
and even like stones like stones look so hard
and so impressive but you can get lighter stones
and people will be like i lifted one of them
stones that are on world strongest man like because
there's so much variability and kind of the weights
of the implements people can do stuff that still
looks really epic even if it's like super scaled
back which is amazing yeah The closest I've ever
been to being knocked out was lifting a stone.
And I did martial arts for a long time and got
hit many times. But I guess I just held my breath.
And it was like, it wasn't a crazy weight, but
it was heavy for me sitting on my chest. And
I remember just that little tunnel starting to
get smaller and smaller. And luckily, I sat down
before I completely passed out. But yeah, the
stone has kicked my ass more than any human being
to this point. Yeah, it's brutal. All right.
Well, speaking of that. Talk to me about breath
work and the importance of breath, especially
when you're doing these incredibly heavy lifts.
I refer in my coaching to the three B's of strongman.
And if you do not have one of them, it all falls
apart. And that is breathing, bracing and your
butt. You need to be able to use all three. But
yeah, breathe and embrace it. Breathing and bracing,
super important. Do not brace and breathe effectively.
One, you're probably going to hurt yourself at
some point because you're not creating enough
intra -abdominal pressure. But also I always
explain it as, so the two parts for the injury
prevention, I'm like, right, there's two cans
in my hands. One hasn't been opened and is full
and the other is empty. If I squeeze them, which
one is ending up better? you need to breathe.
You need to breathe in. And breathing in doesn't
mean sucking your tummy in. It means putting
air in your belly. And the other that I use,
the other analogy is the Coke and Mentos. So
if you put Mentos and Coke, pressure builds,
it explodes. It's the same with you as an athlete.
If you breathe in, you put air into you, you
increase your pressure, you can exert more power.
So you can ultimately shift more weight. So yeah.
the amount of people that I've coached face to
face as well. And I'm like, why can't you breathe?
And they're like, it's hard. And I'm like, yeah,
it is. And we need to learn how to learn how
to do that better. So what about, you mentioned
that the holistic side, I know you, you do hypnotherapy
and neuro -linguistic programming now. So we
know we're watching you picking up stones, you
know, Fred Flintstone style. And now we're talking
obviously about these, these soft skills, these,
you know, these mental resilience skills. Why
those two practices? And then talk to me about
the application to the people that you're coaching
now. Yeah, so for me, I think this is going to
sound really cheesy. I feel like this is like
my purpose. This is what I've always been meant
to do. It's what I wanted to do in nursing, hence
why I went into the learning disability and mental
health field. I wanted to help people have a
better life. It's the element of my sports coaching
that I enjoy the most. yes it's amazing seeing
people win competitions get records set pbs but
the thing that brings me the most joy is someone
saying i spoke to a client earlier who who's
leaving us and she said the biggest thing i've
got is the confidence to walk in the gym amazing
i've other people one of my clients has been
through horrendous things in his life and just
hated himself and now every week he can tell
me something positive about himself and he can
say you know what my life's okay considering
what it's been through massive another girl who
whose mum told her she'd never leave home because
she couldn't be independent enough and now she
lives with her girlfriend and has a really good
job and is doing a master's degree like seeing
that gives me a kick like I love it so that's
kind of how I moved into the life coaching space
and I know that NLP is used a lot alongside life
coaching to really kind of work with people kind
of dip into the subconscious and and get results
so I signed up to do a life coaching and NLP
course and part of that course was clinical hypnotherapy
and I was like hmm I'm skeptical like is it what
what is it I'll like it's part of the course
so I'll do it oh my god I was blown away I was
like wow this is insane um and like some of so
as an example of how i apply that now i've worked
with a client who tore her acl two years ago
had the reconstructive surgery did the rehab
signed off everything all clear but she still
had pain and she was still scared of being in
pain every single day like it impacted her she
said like eight out of ten every day um within
one session that was down to nothing she got
up she walked around she didn't feel any pain
she trained that night no pain she's trained
ever since no pain crazy and we're also going
to work with her on um seeing herself as more
of an athlete so there's some nlp techniques
that i'm going to use in hypnotherapy to kind
of shrink down this image that she has of herself
now as kind of not good enough and a bit of a
broad and really bring up that big picture of
like you know what i'm a really capable strong
athlete and i'm amazing so we'll do that within
hypnosis to shift that mindset um someone else
i'm working with around their relationship with
food and binge eating and kind of not feeling
good enough um but again can lead into performance
someone else i'm working with i've just done
a session we did a life coaching session setting
some goals around okay where are we at in all
areas of your life where are you getting satisfaction
where are you not okay if we bring that area
up everything else is going to improve you're
going to be able to focus more on your performance
we did a hypnotherapy session on you can just
be you that is okay um being confident and capable
she used her anchor from that session today on
a log session and said it felt like air felt
amazing and our next session again will be on
feeling capable and we're actually going to go
through the log press she feels like her legs
switch off when she does log so the whole kind
of hypno session will be around like feeling
energy through her body into the log and anchoring
that so that when she goes to do log her subconscious
is like we got this it's insane like i sometimes
obviously people have their eyes closed when
i'm doing it And when they give me the feedback,
I'm like, I can't believe that it's worked, even
though I know it works. It's still quite new
to me, but I'm like really excited for the impact
I can have with it. I mean, that side of it is
so important. I mean, firstly, from the pain,
the number of people that I've heard that have
gone through injuries and then they're just so
protective of that injury. And it's a mental
block and it's understandable. You know, it hurt
like hell. You snapped your knee, whatever it
was. But getting that confidence and getting
past that. But a really interesting example is
a guy, Johan Hari, that wrote several books,
but one of them was on addiction. called Chasing
the Scream. And he talks about this one study
that this group did and they had all these obese
patients and they gave them IV nutrition. And
there was this one woman that lost more than
anyone else. She was kind of like the rock star
of the study group. And then one day she just
kind of disappeared. She lost all this weight
and she just disappeared. And they ended up like,
you know, tracking her down. And she had dived
back into binge drinking, excuse me, binge eating,
you know, fast food and she put on some weight.
And they were able to get her back in. And one
of the scientists said, well, let me let me ask
her some questions. And so no one had really
asked about them. And so he said, you know, how
old were you when you first started eating this
way? And she said, I think it was like 10. And
he said, did anything happen to you in your in
your life around that same age? And she said,
yeah, that was when my grandfather started molesting
me. So that particular woman. When she became
thin, she became attractive to people around
her. It brought the very opposite of what she
wanted. So so many people out there, you know,
the physical manifestation often is of what's
going on inside. And so, you know, if you're
not addressing, you know, the the trauma or the
kind of life's journey and some of these these
barriers, then just telling to do three sets
of whatever isn't going to fix the problem. Yeah.
Absolutely. Absolutely. All right. Well, I want
to throw some closing questions at you and be
mindful of your time and let you go. The first
one I love to ask, is there a book or are there
books that you love to recommend? It can be related
to our discussion today or completely unrelated.
Yes. The first one is Feel the Fear and Do It
Anyway by Susan Jeffers. I love that book. Practical
as well, like has tasks in it. That was a good
one. Chasing Excellence by Ben Bergagnon, CrossFit
coach. Fantastic for sports excellence. A bit
of a harder approach, but tells you what you
need to know. You Are a Badass by Jen Sincero.
I'm looking at my shelf. Think Like a Monk by
Jay Shetty. And I also really liked Ronda Rousey's
My Fight, Your Fight. Brilliant. I actually had
Ben Bergeron on the show probably a couple of
years ago now. It was a great conversation. Wow,
that must have been... Yeah, what a guy. I butchered
his name there, but fascinating. Yeah, I think
it might be Bergeron. Maybe I butchered his name.
Yours sounds more right. It sounds more French.
All right, what about films and documentaries?
There's a documentary out now actually called
Strong Woman. A Strong Woman, that's really good.
There was, like I said, I watched it just before
we hit record and it was excellent. It's on YouTube
and it's on the link on your bio and on Instagram.
Yeah, yeah, you can find it. You can find it
there on the Giants Live YouTube channel. No,
all seriousness. You're asking me on the spot
now. There definitely is. There was a boxing
one. It's not Million Dollar Baby. I think it
had Halle Berry in it. I can't remember what
it was called. That was a really good film. Documentaries,
there are definitely a few. The Simone Biles
documentary, loved that. That took into account
a lot of the mental side. And Sprint as well
that was on Netflix was really good from like
a sporting. There's definitely more that I've
watched, but I'm struggling to think on the spot.
I'll let you know. Have you seen that show Adolescence
that just came out? Yes. That's rough. Yeah,
they've done a good job. That's extremely raw.
And I love the way it's all from each different
perspective, from the police to the psychologist
to the parents. They did a phenomenal job with
that story. Yeah, it was great. All right. Well,
the next question, is there a person that you
recommend to come on this podcast as a guest
to speak to the first responders, military and
associated professions of the world? Yes, yes,
yes, yes. Lucy Underdown, deadlift world record
holder, full -time police officer. Lucy's the
one in the, in the strong woman film as well.
Okay. Perfect. Yeah, and she's got, again, very
vulnerable when it comes to the emotional side
of the job too. Yeah, she's incredible and just
such a, like I feel very privileged to call her
a friend. She's amazing. Brilliant, we'll have
to make that happen. Thank you so much. All right,
well then the very last question before we make
sure everyone knows where to find you in the
coaching, what do you do to decompress? Cuddle
my dog. Training is a big thing for me now, especially
this year. I'm not putting so much pressure on
myself with competitions and such. So going to
the gym is nice for me. Walks, I like going for
hikes and things. I'm really bad at hiking, but
I enjoy it. And yeah, reading, I love reading
as well. So I think they're the big ones for
me. Simple. Brilliant. Now you mentioned not
competing at the moment. Are you going to return
to competition or are you done with that chapter?
I don't know. I've achieved my big goals and
I feel very privileged to have ticked them off.
And I feel like now I'm chasing more business
goals. I haven't announced a retirement or anything
like that because I want to keep the door open.
If it feels right and I enjoy it, I'll do it
again. But I don't feel like I have to. And that's
nice. Yeah. I think that that why as well, you
had that why to be at the Arnold to do all these
things. And when you've done it, I mean, is it
how much work is it going to take to eke that
extra one or two percent of performance versus
all the good you can do in these other avenues?
Exactly. And I think, to be honest, when I started,
I used Chloe Brennan, the strong woman, to cover
up elements of Chloe's past that were difficult.
It covered it up and made me a strong person.
But now I'm OK with just being me. with warts
and all and I think I don't feel the need to
do it anymore um even though I enjoy it so it's
nice to have the choice and be in control of
that choice love it yeah there's so many parallels
a lot of us that wear uniform that becomes kind
of an armor you know and you can hide behind
that if you don't do the work yeah definitely
all right well for people listening where are
the best places to find the coaching and yourself
on the internet or social media yeah so you can
find me on instagram my handle is chloe brennan
x um my coaching page is holistic strength coaching
.co .uk and then into oh no that was handle instagram
holistic strength coaching find me on youtube
chloe brennan strong woman The coaching website
is holisticsc .co .uk and the new venture is
lift -your -limits .com. Brilliant. Well, I want
to thank you so much. It's so hard to remember
as well when you can't get the same name for
each of these different platforms. It's really
annoying. And then Instagram goes and shuts your
page down and then you have to come up with another
one. All right. Well, I want to thank you so
much. I mean, you know, obviously. you came across
my radar for the specific sport that you were
a part of but it's been such an interesting conversation
with your lens from the nursing and the mental
health side and the holistic coaching that you're
doing now so i want to thank you so so much for
being so generous with your time and coming on
the behind the shield podcast today you're welcome
thank you very much for having me