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Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast. As
always, my name is James Gearing, and this week
it is my absolute honor to welcome on the show,
Shane Taylor. Now, for those of you that have
seen the show Band of Brothers, Shane portrayed
Doc Rowe, the army medic in Easy Company. So
we discuss a host of topics from his journey
into acting, the audition process for Band of
Brothers, the incredible boot camp they went
through with Captain Dale Dye, the powerful Bastogne
episode, life after Band of Brothers, audition
stories, and so much more. Before we get to this
incredible conversation, as I say every week,
please just take a moment, go to whichever app
you listen to this on, subscribe to the show,
leave feedback, and leave a rating. Every single
five -star rating truly does elevate this podcast,
therefore making it easier for others to find.
And this is a free library for you, planet Earth.
So all I ask in return is that you help share
these incredible men and women's stories so I
can get them to every single person who needs
to hear them. So with that being said... I introduce
to you Shane Taylor. Enjoy. Well, Shane, I wanted
to start by saying thank you so much for carving
out some time and coming on the Behind the Shield
podcast today. Thanks, James. It's an absolute
treat. You know, I've been listening to the podcast
and, you know, I think you're doing an incredible
job, an amazing job. I love the sort of array
of guests that you get on. And, you know, I feel...
the humbled to be part of it so um yeah thank
you thank you for having me here well i can tell
you that when i put the post out that we were
going to do this i had such a huge huge response
and i would say if i collated the data when i
asked people which i'll ask you at the end is
there a tv show film you know you recommend band
of brothers is comes up over and over and over
again. Now, there's a personal connection with
Dale Dye for me as well and my attempt to get
on that show. But, you know, over and above that,
not only was it one of the most beautifully shot
TV series ever, but then you add the layer of
the real men of Easy Company in there as well.
It moved so many people. I'm talking about not
only civilians, but military members from all
over the world made comments about this. So I
am so excited to have this conversation today.
Well, now you've bigged it up. Now this is going
to fall flat. You know, that is the thing that
is, you know, staggering to me. I feel like it's,
I mean, it makes sense on one level. I mean,
take away whether we did, you know, a good enough
job or not depicting it. But I feel like, you
know, the interest makes sense. You know, it's
a period of our history, collective history.
You know, we as humans, you know, we have a connection
to that. But the scale of the response, you know,
from, I don't know, just, you know, people in
the services, especially, you know, I've been
obviously that has an extra resonance, you know,
so if they respond and I've had letters, you
know, from various service people across the
board, you know, that that's a real. That's a
real thing to cherish. But I've also had, you
know, university lecturers talk to me about stuff,
you know, people in the mental health field,
paramedics, contemporary paramedics, and obviously
just fans of the show that are into that period
of history. You know, it's been absolutely mind
-blowing. And when I've been lucky enough to
attend a few things through sort of non -profit,
organizations and and or you know a more sort
of um hollywood -esque sort of signing things
i suppose um you know i've just it's just been
so sort of so humbling to to talk to people about
their reactions to to the to the series and what
it meant to them um you know this the the the
sort of the level of affection is, is staggering.
And, and, and also it fills in some of the gaps
in family history for them as well. You know,
certainly people that may, may not have spoken
about the war, you know, family members, it kind
of gave them a little insight into what, you
know, grandparents may have gone through or something
or father or something, you know, or a mother.
And, you know, so I, So, yeah, the scale I will
probably still be processing if I reach old age,
James, you know, I'll still be processing this
thing really in terms of its seismic impact,
you know. So I still, even though people will
say that or read about it, perhaps, I'm still
amazed and, you know, and surprised just with
how it's touched people. I've waffled again,
James. You're not waffling at all. But I think
the power of television and cinema for this particular
topic especially, I took my little boy to go
and see They Shall Not Grow Old where Peter Jackson
colorized the World War I footage. And then the
actors added voices to it and it was incredible.
He's a huge fan of Hacksaw Ridge. He's watched
Band of Brothers, I think, at least twice with
me now, the whole thing. But it's such an important
kind of, outlet for the next generation to learn
about what their you know it's technically great
grandparents did and for us our age group you
know that was our grandparents but sadly most
of them are you know are passing away now and
so a lot of those stories are dying with them
and it's really sad i wish i'd got into podcasting
10 years prior and could have got all of easy
company on here and all these other amazing amazing
men and women but um yeah i mean the If we cannot
have the real people, as luckily you were able
to do in Band of Brothers, then the next best
thing is for us to go to the most trusted portrayals
of some of those conflicts and some of those
courageous men and women and learn through that
medium instead. Yes, it's a 21st century way
in, isn't it? It's a good porthole to do it.
And I think that's what I've realized, certainly
in the last maybe 10 years, I think. where i
really feel like the show has picked up you know
more so than the first uh 10 and you and and
you know i've i've met a bunch of um well kids
really they wouldn't have been alive when it
first aired you know that have just got in through
that and and and then you know picked up the
books and you know or have explored more online
and and got some of the you know a broader sense
of that period and history and made the connection.
So it's kind of like a lot of people have that,
I suppose they have that concern that now we
are losing so many of the vets, that where is
that continuation going to be? in terms of remembrance,
but I've got to say, you know, when I get out
to sort of anniversary things with a lot of the,
a lot of the fellas, you know, I don't see it
slacking off. I think any, if anything, it's
gaining momentum and, and in all the right ways,
you know, I feel like it's, it's something to
really admire the people behind these things
as well. I mean, they, you know, they, they really
do a great, a great job. to keep the flame, to
keep the torch alive. And so for us to do whatever
we can, you know, whether we are the sort of
like the inadvertent sort of torchbearers in
one sense, you know, now the vets themselves
have passed away, then along with the actual
families, you know, we don't have any beef with
that. You know, that's an honour, you know, to
do, to be, to have that. sort of mantle to have
that sort of responsibility i think it's it's
great so if somebody's getting in to history
through a renee le maire the belgian nurse or
you know they they they see a dick winters they
see you know on tv or whatever that's their way
into learning about it dressing up like a paratrooper
then you know it's great and i've seen so much
of that that i don't have what i initially thought
we might have um I don't have that sort of apprehension
or worry that there's going to be a problem with
that going forward. I think there's a real revelry
with that era. And especially when I've gone
to mainland Europe and I've seen, you know, obviously
not just American, you know, but Canadian, British,
French, you know, the whole allied sort of feel,
you know, there's a real kind of... And for the
German side, you know, it's all kind of part
of it, this thing that they need to remember.
And there's an important point to remember. You
know, we don't want to be there again. So it's
like there's a lesson. There are big lessons
within this. And, yeah, so I don't feel, I feel
like we're going in the right direction. And
I don't see it waning at all. I think it's, there
are too many people involved keeping the spirit
alive. Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think now
more than ever, we need to be reminded of all
the incredible things that came out of it. And
as you said, all the tragic things. So when there's
division, when there's tyranny, you know, and
you start getting anti -Semitism or, you know,
all the other kind of layers of prejudice, we
have to look back to this is what could happen.
I mean, look, you know, World War II is a perfect
example. When we look at... what a leader should
look like. You know, you talk about Winston Churchill,
who was by no means an angel. You know, Dick
Winters, you know, so many of these great, great
leader figures. And then we contrast that with
now. I mean, fucking... you know donald trump
and joe biden and boris i mean jesus christ talk
about it i don't know how we got there but we're
here and it is what it is oh yeah but it's it's
our reality right now so but there's a there's
your there's your sign there's the big red flag
that's what a leader is supposed to look like
this is what we're being given as leaders at
the moment and it's not political it's just i
don't want history to repeat itself and when
i see people dividing countries instead of unifying
them that terrifies me regardless of your politics
Right. And with no interest, it seems. No interest
to unify. No matter what side you are at, it's
where you're planting your flag. There doesn't
seem to be an interest in that unified progression.
So, yeah, the inspirational leader is lacking
right now, I think. But in both places, I think.
But yeah, going back to Dick Winters, I mean,
that's a whole different breed. you know that
greatest generation thing that you know it's
it's a really it's a it's a really amazing thing
to sort of you know read about him and you know
after the event i didn't know anything about
easy company really i mean i was a big i was
into world war ii history i had a great history
teacher at school and um and uh i think the first
thing actually the first thing i started to learn
about was the third reich i was learning about
all of the origins there um And then it kind
of branched out. But, you know, it was so specific,
Easy Company, and, you know, a particular unit
there that, yeah, that bypassed me. But obviously,
once I was introduced to it, then you start reading
about all of it and going from there. And, yeah,
you know, it's ridiculous, isn't it? Some of
the, just in terms of what they did, how they
went about it. you know, true, truly inspirational
as, as, you know, which of course we don't quite
have today, but yeah, I think it's, it was an
eye opener for me for sure. Yeah. And there's
so many other things post -World War II that
are fascinating. Firstly, I myself kind of bought
into the fact that the World War II generation
mentally did well because they had ticker tape
parades and you know you see the iconic photos
but then you take a step back and you listen
to to voices of that era and you're like well
yeah some people did if you got on that ship
and you return to Manhattan that's what you agree
with but you know if you return to rural Idaho
Maybe you didn't get that and you just went back
to your room and then you had to go get a regular
job and all the stuff that you'd done in a completely
different country, you just had to bury down.
And we saw that from our World War II veterans.
And then another thing that I've talked about
on here a lot, whether it's the South in the
1950s in America, whether it's post -wind rush
1950s in London, how do you go from fighting
prejudice on foreign soil for complete strangers
alongside you know, soldiers, sailors, airmen
of all colors and creeds, and then come back
to your country and beat up people because of
the color of their skin or string them up from
a tree. That I don't get. And women go back in
the kitchen and become, you know, after they
were just, you know, iron workers and God knows
what. I don't understand that shift too. So again,
if we do not learn and analyze these, we are
doomed to repeat ourselves. Yeah, it's incredible,
isn't it? Because especially when they're, you
know, you know, it's the old country over here.
So it was, you know, at that time it was, I mean,
I remember reading about that, you know, the
segregation units in the States and certain things
of that period, you know, and of course it was
a kind of a weird thing to be greeted with here
when everybody arrived in that kind of, you know,
the way they were compartmentalised, I suppose,
and not integrated. So it was, you know, that
was a kind of an eye opener. But I always feel
like the social, you know, that social reintegration
is always a, that's always something that you
look at, you know, you try and sort of think,
well, like you say, the infrastructure wasn't
necessarily in place. And people struggle now
in contemporary terms, but there are at least
there are certain things in place to help vets.
And I just think, you know, my, My grandfather
was from Edinburgh and he was a prisoner of war
in Germany for the best part of five years, actually,
most of the war. And for him to sort of come
back after that and try and sort of live some
kind of regular existence was just not on the
cards for him. And there wasn't anything at all.
He just went. Back to Edinburgh and and and and
got into the bottle pretty heavily. I mean, you
know, he's from Scotland, so he liked his whiskey
anyway. But I mean, he was just, you know, according
to my mom, you know, it was just like a it was
a horrendous time for him, you know, and and,
you know, the drink took him early, you know,
way early. But there was nothing there. There
was nothing there for him to no outlet, no platform.
And so I feel like we're sort of in a better
place, but there still seems to be a lot that
can be done in those terms. But how do you deal
with it? How do you deal with it? You must have
what you've done. Are there things in place for
you and the people that you've worked with before?
I mean, are there groups? When you retire from
service or whatever, are there things in place
that you go to or any of your team? No, is the
short answer. When you retire from the fire service
or law enforcement in America. So if you're a
veteran and you get hurt, obviously, or you have
anything that's related to your service, I believe
that qualifies you for the VA. And I think there's
TRICARE as well, which is... I don't know if
it's if you weren't impacted or if it's family,
but you have that umbrella as well. Or either
of those perfect systems, no. But there's at
least an attempt to take care of them post -service.
In law and fire, once you're gone, you're gone.
When that door closes and your ID doesn't work
anymore, it's like, all right, bye, thanks. Not
even thanks, just bye, usually. So that's the
problem. And then it's only when you transition
out of that. whether you're a soldier or a sailor
or whether you're a firefighter or a police officer,
and you've now lost that tribe that you worked
to launch, you've lost that sense of purpose,
like, you know, your job meant something when
you were wearing the uniform, you know, that
community, that's all taken away. And now you're
back at home, you know, with family, alone, whatever
that looks like. And you've now got time for
all the things that maybe were kind of kept at
bay by the excitement of your job and by the
bonding experience of the men and women you worked
with. And that is where we see a lot of people
struggling. If you look at the Vietnam era, from
what I understand, a lot of them now. that jumped
back into some sort of profession are now at
retirement age so now we're seeing an uptick
in in suicides and overdoses and um because that
was that kind of kept it at bay when they found
another community and then they they transitioned
out so there are a huge amount of solutions but
none of them are really provided to At least
in, in first responder professions, a lot of
times it's nonprofits or people, you know, luckily
look in the right direction and find the right
person. But, but yeah, we can do so much better
for, for the military, but especially first responders,
because they have very, very little support.
Well, you know, we, we talked off there about
before about this, this, um, charity and, and,
and a sort of, uh, uh, they call it the veterans
hub that I've started to become connected with.
Essentially, it's a social cafe for veterans
of all campaigns, you know, and of all ages.
And in fact, it doesn't stop there. I mean, people
that are actively serving right now are thinking
about it. And it's even broadened out to sort
of some of the youngsters in the area that are
kind of have been socially deprived they you
know they're a bit more they're in need and they've
been embraced by the hub and I went down there
at the back end of last year and and saw it for
myself and it was a really it was a it was a
it was a great thing to witness because you know
you had these vets that obviously as you would
know you know some Some are able to talk more
than others about certain things. But those that
haven't, maybe to their family and close friends
outside of the services that they haven't been
able to communicate so much, when they get into
that environment with others, they may not have
served directly with them, but there is this
common denominator that they've all shared an
experience or a set of experiences. So it has
been easier for those. for those people to, to,
to just have a coffee and chat about all sorts
of stuff. And it doesn't have to be obviously
about, you know, being in battle or anything,
but it's, but the, just, just the whole idea
of having somewhere that because there was nowhere
and there was no support at a grander level,
you know, this is a very independently run thing
with, you know, fueled by the community spirit
and um and and but for me to see it and also
for people to be able to talk about their experiences
here i was you know i wasn't anybody i just came
in there and and i'm just talking to a few a
few of the people there and you know fascinating
great characters stories to tell but each and
every one of them would you know really did sort
of validate the importance of somewhere like
that, you know, and obviously it wasn't just
about a coffee shop, you know, it was a, it was,
they have these professional professionals on
site. They have an area for therapy dogs, you
know, massage. There's a, there's a, there's
a vegetable patch. There's like a garden and
a few of the, few of the vets were out there
that were green fingered, you know? showing me
around. I didn't know what anything was, but
it was great to see them excited. And that's
the thing, isn't it? It's almost like rekindling
an excitement and an enthusiasm about life, which
in their experience, and understandably so, could
have been just ripped from them once they got
back and falling into... depression and stuff
like that you know that's what that's going to
be the byproduct that you lose all sense of anything
uh in terms of just just simple joy going forward
and so what that's done or i felt it was doing
and it is doing is it's it's bringing back those
kind of moments the those those simple joys um
and collectively you know there's again it's
unity we talk about you know those leaders that
are not being unifying but that you know this
sort of thing was was it was a place of great
unity and great strength as a result of it beautiful
yeah and that's the key i mean it's community
it's finding a new tribe it's creating an environment
to be able to storytell so i had a group of british
firefighters on here that have our blue light
which is a non -profit for emergency responders
there's a group of british police officers that
have surf well where they take you know responders
surfing I actually had an amazing one Tom Hewitt
who's in he's English but he's actually in South
Africa and it's surfers not street kids or street
children and they take children they teach them
how to swim there's a huge irony to living right
by the coast but believing that there's demons
and monsters in the ocean so they don't swim
so they teach them to swim they teach them to
surf but again after that tribal experience of
surfing you've got nature you've got sunshine
you've got exertion then when they're on the
beach Then, as you said, counselors will come
in and they'll start working with these kids
because a lot of them are orphaned from HIV and
violence and, you know, overdoses and all kinds
of things. So, yeah, but there's a common denominator
in each one of those. Like you said, firstly,
as a leader who actually understands leadership
and who brings a community together, makes them
feel like they are, you know, a tribe, gives
them purpose and then therefore creates an environment
that they feel comfortable to tell stories. And
that is where the healing is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
It's, it's, it's, it's, it's a no brainer, isn't
it? For things like this to, to exist in the
world. And it's the least, the very least if
the world can do, if it seems, but, but of course
it's, it's, it's a struggle, you know, resources
are needed all over the world for stuff like
this. And, but, you know, at the moment it's
early days for, for, for my involvement here.
you know i should name check andy price and lisa
rushby and the david airless charity are part
of this whole thing and um and they're down in
dorset james which you probably know is a county
in the southwest of england um so just doing
their thing doing their little bit um for the
greater good like an easy company almost you
know it's uh it's it's it's but it was it's good
to see you know um and uh you know we'll see
where it leads but yeah i am yeah i you know
i feel i feel almost like a you do have that
imposter syndrome because it's kind of like well
you know i'm just a talking prop i mean i don't
know what sort of what i can do in this environment
you know i'm well out of my depth i haven't served
you know uh but there they were you know talking
to me about stuff that i just you know and i
was in awe i was in complete and utter awe with
everyone um because you know i'm i'm flying around
with sponge you know debris hitting my head it's
not going to cut me open but obviously they've
been in situations where very real you know and
um and very scary you know so All I had to worry
about and all I had to be scared about was if
Tom Hanks said that was a pile of shit, let's
do it again. So no contest. But yeah, I'm pleased
to sort of be part of something that's... I mean,
that's the thing. You're in a show, like we touched
on earlier, there's a good gateway for kids,
especially the younger generation, to get involved
and start learning about stuff. That serves its
purpose. But then, you know, this this and that
means something, obviously. But then but this
this this this is a sort of a this has a more
profound resonance, you know, to just deal with
these people at the moment and and try and push
on. And, you know, and again, you know, it's
about that is in service of remembrance. This
is in service of awareness and keeping that going,
you know. Absolutely. Well, I'd love to kind
of walk through your journey into drama school
and then out the other side. You talked about
your grandfather coming back from World War Two
and struggling. I think that multi -generational
trauma is a discussion that we don't have enough.
We don't identify enough, especially in. fire
and military we just talk about what we see what
we did and not about what our childhood was like
so you know what was that impact on your mom
and then kind of walk me through your your early
life and then let's go into to drama school um
well i think she had a brother and the brother
suffered on the grandfather's return or her dad's
return uh but she was kind of a favorite i think
It's very sketchy with that stuff. I mean, I
think she was only maybe 15 when he died, you
know. But she saw enough. She saw enough of those
swings that could happen, the rages that could
happen. And so I guess, yeah, there was an indelible
print on her. psyche of what he was but she had
if there wasn't any of the best of him to be
had then she had it you know so it was that flip
side uh for her um but yeah my you know my i
don't know i mean my it's an interesting question
generational trauma it's kind of interesting
i don't all i can say james is i got lucky you
know i got lucky all of that stuff She didn't
take that into motherhood. And I'm the only kid.
I'm the only child. They wanted more. But, you
know, but I had a tremendous, tremendous group
of where I live was kind of it was sort of suburban,
but sort of rural as well. We backed on the hills
and woodlands and stuff like that. I had so many
friends with so many siblings. It was a real
kind of, it was like the gang of Stan by me,
but you multiply that by about 15, you know,
girls, boys, the lot. And we were all within
like a two or three year age range, you know,
so we were tight and we were many. And we didn't
cause that much trouble, bizarrely. Not so much,
you know, we were just in the woodlands and,
you know, My mum and dad really never saw me.
I was really outdoorsy, you know, loved, just
loved being around my friends and, excuse me.
Yeah, I don't think, and they were loving parents.
You know, my dad's from sort of merchant Navy
stock, but then he went to, into sort of deep
sea cargo things, potentially have brothers or
sisters in West, in the West Indies. um but this
was before he was married uh but uh you know
he um he was he was and still is you know he's
a lovely lovely fella and um you know if there
was a template for fatherhood he's a good one
you know uh and you know so my you know i when
i got to and i'm jumping ahead a little bit here
but when i did go to to my drama academy. And
I started to meet people there. And it's a fairly,
if you're lucky to get in, you know, it's a sort
of a small, there are small groups, small year
groups. We were about 15 or 16 or something like
that. And you're going around and you're doing
all the introductions. And that's quite an international
flavor, which is nice as well. You know, you're
going all around. And you're talking about personal
stuff. You know, it's part of the great deconstruction.
and then let's see where let's see how you cope
you know without any kind of life jacket you
know but part of that was to kind of disclose
you know stuff of your history you know personal
history family backgrounds and I was amazed I
was amazed by all bar maybe two others everybody
had the most like three acts movie, you know,
the, the, the, the, the sort of the, the, the
trauma of, of their early years, um, you know,
just, just more drama in the first, cause we
were only like late teens and early twenties,
you know? So they had almost like felt to me
like they'd already had lifetimes worth of, of
heavy trauma. It seemed, you know, it was like,
my God. That really happened to you? That really
happened to you growing up? I couldn't believe
it. You know, I felt like everybody would have
my sort of existence. You know, it was that sort
of, you know, naively, I suppose, you know. I
know you get the odd one or two, which I was
thinking, you know, it was going to be a bad
ride. But ultimately, you know, it was going
to be okay. But it wasn't the case. I realized
I was in the minority. And as I've gotten older,
I've realized that actually, yeah, I just had
a bit of a ticket in terms of my early years,
you know, growing up and not feeling like I wasn't
loved, you know, which is often the thing about
getting into this industry, isn't it? It's like
they always throw that out. You want the attention,
you know, you didn't get the love or whatever,
and you want the adoration. And I'd rather not
have that. It's not that that's not the reason.
You know, I just wanted a way to be able to sophisticatedly,
sophisticatedly elongate childhood because I
was a great sort of kid who, like most, you know,
it was all about imagination. It was all about
play. It was all about creation. And then you
had to stop it. And I and I didn't I took offense
to that, James. fire service is the same like
literally we're having you know like food fights
in the station and all of a sudden you have to
clean up because you go do an emergency then
you come back and now it's a fire competition
in the bay or you know it's it literally is exactly
what you're talking about you get to hang from
ropes and smash cars up and you know go into
burning buildings so yeah you are absolutely
preaching to the choir yeah it's um you know
so i yeah i felt like it was a Yeah, I came from
good stock, as they say, I suppose. And, you
know, life always has its ups and downs. So that's
happened, obviously. But it's not, yeah, it's,
you know, going back to that generational trauma,
I was thinking if it's passed on, I don't, you
know, if it came out in other ways, I didn't
see it so much. You know, I was just, you know,
from where my mum came from. you know my dad
has a lot of they have a huge family my dad's
like got six sisters and they've all had loads
they just i can't i don't know how many they've
had but it's um and and my grandfather was uh
it's funny actually with my dad he his grandfather
didn't serve he was like a a big kind of fisherman
with trawler ships you know and uh he so he was
part he was part of the you know catch the food
for the home front and all that stuff and also
mines in nets that they find in the others to
kind of cut them out and all sorts of ridiculous.
He'd dive down and do all sorts of weird stuff
there. But my dad, my dad was my one day, apparently
he was on a bike. He was on a motorbike, I think.
And he was, he was going home and this is my
grandfather, my dad's dad and Luftwaffe. They
were coming back from some kind of raid, I guess.
I don't know, but they were just. They saw him
and decided to just get a bit of fire practice
in on the way back. And so they shot down at
him on his bike and literally hit the handlebars
and the handlebars cracked open and he flew off
into like a cornfield or whatever. He just, you
know, submerged into that. You know, I think
for the longest time, I think he still had the
handlebars. But that was just one of those moments
where you think, oh, my goodness, you know, incredible.
I could just imagine him in the pub saying, how'd
you break your bike? Well, you're not going to
believe this. There I was. There I was. Yeah,
there I was. You know, it's funny. My dad was
saying that, you know, I said, well, why didn't
you ever go into that? Because he was always
about the Merchant Navy. And he was saying, well,
you know, I went on a ship. with my dad, you
know, and his best friend was called Alec. And,
you know, obviously there was a big pub culture,
you know, there still is a pub culture in Britain,
as you know, James, but back in the day, there
was a whole community and that was where, you
know, HQ would be after a day's work. But before
they got into that and sank a few pints and then
were just taught for days, they would obviously
go out onto the sea and... and do their, put
in their graft. But my dad went out early on
thinking, you know, okay, let's see what this
is all about and get some pocket money or whatever.
And then he said, my dad was saying, and it was
just, I just knew I wasn't cut out for any of
this. I just, I mean, you know, I'm a sea dog.
I'm just not that kind of sea dog. And he said
that when he went out there, his dad was like,
you know, driving the ship or whatever. Alec
was out in the back with some nets or something.
And there was just nothing. Now these are best
buddies. They're not saying a word to each other.
Now my dad's kind of in the middle of it, doing
stuff. I'm picking nets or tying up nets or something.
And, and then all of a sudden my granddad was
a larger than life sort of character. You know,
you really couldn't understand too much. He was
one of those classic, those types, you know?
And so my dad would say, All of a sudden, you
know, my dad would go. And Alec, back, would
go. So it's inaudible. You couldn't make out
the word. It was just noise. And my dad's looking
at Alec and he's looking back. It's like my dad's
looking back at Alec. So there's always an echo.
Alec would always echo whatever the sound was.
And it would mean something, you know, so we'd
haul in or throw something out of the ship, you
know, the boat. And my dad's like, OK, OK, this
is this is an interesting communication. And
and this went on for, you know, 15, 20 minutes,
just like that. But it meant something and things
were happening. So and then quiet, there'll be
nothing and then it'll get to a break. They'll
go smoke a cigarette, have some tea or coffee
or whatever. And they'd just sit. My dad would
be sitting in the middle of them, deathly silent,
just quiet as you like, just nothing, nothing
at all, you know. Then my granddad would clink
something and up they'd get again. And that would
be all day, it was like that. So they'd come
home and my dad's like pulling his hair out after
that. you know they'd go to the pub or it'd be
it'd be invited to go into the pub and then they'd
get into that sink a you know a pint or whatever
and they could and then they wouldn't stop talking
it would just be like everything would just switch
on and that would be that you know but it was
a really bizarre you know bizarre thing but yeah
my dad was definitely not cut out for that he
wanted a bit more adventure a bit more communication
i suppose and um so he went deep sea instead
but uh And I don't even know why I said that
story, but it was just, yeah. But, you know,
if there was any trauma for him, that was about
the level it was at. That was all. It was just
this ridiculous, you know, caveman -esque thing.
And, yeah, and that wasn't his thing. But, yeah,
I suppose, yeah, my backstory is pretty fairly
straightforward and not. You know, it's only
when I started getting into the industry, James,
that the real drama happened, you know, metaphorically
and literally. Well, it's funny with the conversation
with your granddad and his friend, because it
reminds me of the West Country where I grew up,
where it's almost like they had a wheelbarrow
full of consonants. They got to Swindon, it dumped
over and they were like, ah, fuck it. Right,
mate, how's it going? I just grew up lush, innit?
What? I'm sorry, what? And I grew up with the
RP. My parents were quite posh. And then I went
to secondary school and everyone had a West Country
accent. So we all sounded like pirates for a
while. It's hilarious because my stepfather,
he's got thick, thick, thick. west country accent
and you know i'm fluent in english and west country
so i'm bilingual so i can understand him but
uh but it is it's just a bunch of vowels that
you have to try to kind of sift through and find
words yeah it's cute it's cute man i like it
a lot you know um and and that you know he he
was definitely one that was uh you know hard
as nails as well i remember that but such a loving
guy you know um you know i caught him well he
was the cod father you know he's like not i don't
think i actually caught cod i don't know that
was what their thing was but that's what because
he was literally like the leader type of that
particular market i remember that and he would
pay people off with like police with fish you
know he's like that was his currency you know
he just had it for everybody and then he could
you know, he would get, you know, the chairman
of, he got me into, cause I'm a bit of a Liverpool
fan from old. I don't know, you know, Liverpool
connection. I'm not from there, you know, but
my, my granddad got me into so many games because
he ended up, don't know how, but through fish
of all things, he could be able to sort of, you
know, get, have influence and, and, and get me
tickets for all sorts of, all sorts of VIPs,
you know. So he was, you know, he was one that
was, yeah, I think back fondly of. And yeah,
so it's, yeah, so that was it. It was fairly
straightforward and fairly uneventful. Well,
in terms of like, you know, high drama and, you
know, but I didn't, but theatre was not a thing
you could do from my neck of the woods, you know.
fairly working class type of area and uh you
know anything artistic was to kind of be frowned
on or it was extracurricular and it was kind
of you know groups that were just forming outside
of school or whatever there were not any courses
and and then i ended up going to college to be
a journalist you know i was going to be it's
going to be that and then and then i sort of
um this was the step before the drama academies
but there was somebody in college it was an english
english lecturer i had and she had this drama
group that was outside this youth this youth
theater group and she said you know come and
try out and i so i did i realized that that was
a way of being able to you know uh keep keep
a foot in and um and that was really i think
that was the time that i felt like there might
be a way of being able to explore this more seriously.
And I was building up, they were a smart theatre
group run by Stella Critchley and Daryl Brown,
and they were really, really influential. They
chose well, they had great taste in what they
were doing, and I think through that, I was just
learning all the time with them. So productions
were, you know... through an average year, we
may have got through three, four, perhaps, you
know, but big, big productions, you know, classic
as well as contemporary. And all the while I'm
still sort of building up a youth theatre resume,
a sort of CV that is that my, my roles were getting
bigger. And then, you know, you're, you're playing
the big, the big, big roles, you know, classical
and otherwise. And, and all of that really helped,
I think. And again, through Stella's, you know,
influence, she was saying to me, well, I think
to take this on, you know, you're not, don't
necessarily go the sort of university route for
degrees in theatre management, but go do the
pragmatic stuff. You know, there are academies
out there. I knew about RADA and Central. They
were two kind of two big famous. over here. But
then there were other ones. And there was this
one in particular called Weber Douglas, which
is as old as, more or less as, along with Rara,
it's one of the oldest places. And I got the
prospectus from there and I really loved it.
And I thought, okay, let's have a go at this.
And I did it early enough. So if it didn't work
out, I still had time to apply for others. But,
you know, I got in and that was it. I was like,
I'm not going to, I don't even want to see if
I can get into, you know, a rod or anything like
that. I mean, this was the place that I really
liked. I really responded to, uh, you know, Terrence
stamp went there. Angela Lansbury went there.
Uh, Christopher Reeve, uh, Eva green is more
of a recent, I suppose. Um, Anthony share, great
theater, man, you know, it, it just, it just
ticks all the boxes for me. The only problem
was it was a lot of money, you know, and, um,
Again, you know, when you're from the working
class background, it's a difficult thing. It's
not a working class sport, James. And so we had
a problem there. You know, getting in was one
thing. It's like, okay, now what do we do? And
because it wasn't where I was from at the time,
you know, I was living in Kent at that point
and it was just the county, they were not, again,
it wasn't about that particular area and that
corner at that time. They were not big on supporting
these kind of artistic endeavours, you know.
uh especially at that sort of those prices you
know so that was a that was a difficult one and
that and then so my parents were like willing
to put up the house you know willing to sell
sell the house that's what i mean that's what
i mean if you want to talk about support and
how i got lucky you know well just send to jack
because i mean when you have the you know, the
impression of the manly man, merchant seaman,
you know, and then, you know, your son wants
to go to drama school because I went to drama
school for a year and I saw my parents' reaction.
It was less than favorable. You know, you kind
of immediately flashed to the Zoolander mind
scene. So you had the polar opposite effect where
your parents are willing to put their house up
to put you through school. I think this is the
thing where, you know, you've got to remember
that I was named after the Western. So Shane,
the Alan Ladd Western in 53. My dad is a Western
nut. You know, he loves all that stuff. And movies
when he was, I mean, he didn't perform. He's
a great singer. He's a great crooner, but he
didn't do anything theatrical. But movies all
the time, you know, even in his Navy days and
he's kind of, you know, setting up stuff and
projectors and he still has like 16 millimeter
projectors. He loves screening things. There
is a correlation there. And I think, you know,
but just to see, you know, your kid get infused
about anything, you know, is from his perspective
was like that's he's found something, you know.
So and, you know, my mom, although she's not
theatrical. Well, I say that. I mean, if she's
got a few drinks down, she once reenacted the
death scene of Bonnie Parker and Bonnie and Clyde
in a restaurant. So I'm on the table. So, again,
if you're looking for threads, maybe they're,
you know, I've overlooked that. But I think and
she believes she's a singer, but she's completely
tone deaf. She would admit that. But that doesn't
stop her bouncing it out, which I love. And in
fact, I've got many four track studio recordings
of her doing that after a Pinot Noir. You know,
so those were the things they but they were willing
to do that. And then so that was great. But of
course, for me personally, you know, as a family
home and it wasn't something that that was plaguing
me. You know, I didn't want that to happen. It
was a place that I like to go. You know, I would
because I was going to have to move to London.
But it was like, you know, that was the place
I wanted to go and return and see my mom and
dad. You know, I didn't want them to move in
somewhere else. And so. It became a thing where
we got the Drama Academy, Webber Douglas, got
a scholarship lead and they sent me that. And
it was like a scholarship for Cameron McIntosh,
who's like the impresario behind a lot of the
big, most of the West End musicals that people
go and see to this day. You know, they had a
scholarship. There was one male and one female
bursary and it was up for grabs. It meant me
going to the West End in the Albury Theatre,
I think, and performing a couple of pieces there.
And then, you know, with a whole bunch of people.
And then in the afternoon, you would have to
go and interview this huge banquet table of people
I couldn't even see down the other end, you know,
firing questions. And it was a really nervy day,
you know, because it was a big break between
those things. You perform your stuff and then
it's just you hang around London for a while.
And, you know, my dad was with me and we're sort
of walking around and sitting on a load of, you
know, just sitting on bench after bench, you
know, and then we had this thing. And then it
was two weeks, I think it was like two weeks
later or something like that, that I got this
thing through. They happened to be in France
and they were with some friends having a little
holiday break. And I got the call to say, you
know, you don't have to do anything. Take the
sign out of the garden thing out of the yard.
They're paying for it all. They're paying for
it all. And not only that, they paid me this
really healthy maintenance for every semester
or term, you know, that they were going to give
me a decent grant that I could live, you know,
because it meant London. And where Weber Douglas,
I mean, they were right in the heart of Kensington.
So if you know. that james you know it's like
a prime zone one territory and so it's it's it
again it's it ain't cheap so you so so it was
a real eye -opener for me this sort of rustic
kid going into there and landing there you know
to do the to do the training and and uh but you
know with that relief that my parents didn't
have to do because they're still there to this
day you know they're still in the same place
you know so it's like a so i'm just so pleased
that it all worked out in that way and um And
I could do the training, you know, fairly relaxed.
Although I say, you know, the training itself
and what we had to do and get up to was pretty
intense. You know, it was hardcore. And as I'm
sure you would know in certain things that you
have to do. And yeah, you know, deconstruction,
deconstructing was their thing. And part of it
was to see if you could. You know, just survive
without necessarily being being built up. And
I think that was a good exercise, actually. I
mean, a lot of people at the time were like,
this is sadistic. But, you know, I feel like
there was it was a precursor to you sort of getting
out there and facing up to a lot of rejection,
you know. And how do you respond to that psychologically?
You know, because people have different ways,
even in rejection, people have different ways
of. of handling it in terms of, you know, companies
or individuals, you know, dispensing that upon
you. There's good ways of doing it and there
are bad ways of doing it and you're going to
experience most of those, you know, and then
how do you deal with it? How do you get on? How
do you pick yourself up and go on and do that,
you know, theatrically? So I felt like Drama
Academy was good for that, really. And, you know,
it was another great, the biggest thing about
it all, and I think I'm probably talking too
much without you coming in, but I think that
the best thing about the Drama Academies, because
I've met a lot of amazing actors, you know, female
and male, all the way along this journey, is
that the Drama Academy, the accredited academies,
they're a really good platform for exposure.
It's like having good agents or good management
on the outside. You're going to get into the
inner circle and see all the best stuff, you
know. And with those accredited academies and
schools, we were attended in our finals year
for productions and showcases, you know, 90 %
of the audience were industry. And I don't think
anybody really didn't. I don't think there was
anybody that. got out of there without being
represented. It was that. I managed to get signed
up a year early. Again, I was fairly relaxed
about the last year because I knew what I was
going to do. I knew I was in good hands. That
was the thing. That really separated that just
that platform that that ability to be exposed
in front of the right people because there are
there are many people doing doing great work
james and nobody's seeing it you know so unless
i put it on youtube i don't know but you know
what i mean it's uh so that was good so that
was my that was my uh academy experience I think
I leapt forward there massively, didn't I? I
leapt forward there. No, no, it was perfect,
actually. It puts us exactly where we need to
be, I think. So I think we graduated about the
same time. Mine was a one -year diploma course.
And, you know, so and then there was a parallel
three -year acting class. And I'd gone to that
one, I think I told you in our previous conversation,
following a girl, which maybe is not the most
powerful way. But so I came out the other side.
um was using i think it was pcr the red kind
of casting sheet that came around and there was
a show called band of brothers that they were
looking for people um and i and now as we have
this conversation i realize that the only reason
that you got the role and i didn't is because
i am a fucking awful actor but that's the only
separating point otherwise i would have smashed
it Listen, the way you present yourself, I don't
know, I beg to differ. I'm sure you got the chops.
And it was just a case of, you know, what are
the reasons? You know, there comes a point when
you, I don't know, again, I'm leaping ahead here,
but when it came to sort of picking the Belgian
nurse, when it came to picking René Lemaire,
I had the luxury of looking at some of the final
tapes. The director let me see who was in the
running. So it hadn't properly been cast, but
you were down to like six or seven, if that.
Every one of those. Tremendous. Amazing. You
know, you get to that point and I don't know
how many went up for it, but, you know, you get
to that point. Everybody's good. How do you decide?
I mean, you know. But Lucy Jean, who ended up
playing her, was magnificent. And I really, really,
she was the closest, resembling her as well,
I think, that I remember. And she was spectacular.
I love Lucy, but I love Lucy. But, you know,
it's really, you know, it's really difficult.
I don't know what they go on. I mean, it's, you
know, there's so many, you know, you get to a
certain point where you've got too much choice.
So I'm always, you know, it comes down to whatever
that is. You know, it's like me getting a place
or winning a scholarship. You know, you just
have to be hit at a certain point. And, you know,
as long as you've prepped, you've put the work
in and then you've got to have a little bit of
luck, you know. So I think it's there's no getting
away from that, you know. So, you know. Don't
ridicule your acting ability, James. Trust me,
my acting is terrible. I've got many, many people
who testify for me. But when I was on that path,
we had stage combat and stage combat. I excel
that. And so that took me down the path of stunts.
So that I will, you know, I will say in the stunt
world, I think at the skill set that I have,
you know, that was where I was good at. But no
acting I am. Probably one of the – I mean, I've
seen some movies where I'm like, oh, I could
have probably been in that one. That was horrendous.
But aside from that, like, good acting. It's
just not my thing. And I tell people with fire
service, you know, like, not everyone's supposed
to be a firefighter. James Gearing is not supposed
to be an actor. And I made that fully aware after
a year of drama school. You know, I always try
and be – you know, you've got to be – somehow
in this profession, I feel like you've got to
be motivated, you know, inspired by the good.
obviously and that's easy but motivated by the
bad because there's plenty of that going on you
know and i don't begrudge anybody trying to make
a a go of it in this industry you know it takes
that takes a lot of courage you know so i so
i'm not sort of saying they shouldn't but i'm
just saying that there is this level you know
things are getting made and you think how on
earth did that happen how did that get green
lit you know how are they doing that you know
how are they being in it but you know there's
all sorts of there's all sorts of political machinations,
which I'm not going to go into now, but, and
I don't want to seem like a bitter actor, but
it's because like I say, I mean, I think if I
see bad stuff, it's like, well, if they've got
a place at the table, reserve me a seat. You
know, I'm not asking to be at the head of the
table, but I'm good enough to have it. If that's
getting on, you know, that's kind of the thing.
So then you go on and then hopefully something
comes through and you go, yeah. You know, the
training wasn't nothing, you know, and so you
can go and you can go and play, you know, but
it's a weird thing. You know, I think I think
I've mentioned this to you before, but and this
is not a great analogy. And I thought, but I'll
throw it in there anyway. I feel like in this
thing, it's like, you know, that that Victorian
kid with his face pressed up against the glass
of a toy store, toy shop, you know, and there
are people playing in there. And you're just,
you're desperate. You're seeing it happen. People
are doing it. And you're thinking, oh, I'd love
to play in there, you know. And then every once
in a while, you know, a benign sort of shopkeeper
will come in, open the door, get you out of the
cold, allow you to play with a few things, and
you hope that you play nicely. You hope you do
your thing, you know. Sometimes you do. Sometimes,
you know, you drop a few things and, you know,
it didn't work out. But then, you know, you're
ushered back out and you're. that working class
kid from the sticks, James is just with his face
pressed up against the glass again. And that's
just kind of what the way it is in this profession,
you know, unless you have a sort of a stellar
career, but you know, the, the jobbing actors
and voiceover people like myself, you know, that's,
that's kind of what it is. But again, it comes
back to that drama Academy thing and, and, and
being able to sort of, I suppose, you know, is
it having a raw hide or just being, you know,
a muppet i don't know i mean one of a combination
of both really just keep on keeping on a muppet
with a raw hide there you go yeah i took away
so much from that as well i think that's important
my stepson did a firefighter mentorship program
they have here and it was beautiful because he
realized he didn't want to be a firefighter awesome
Amazing. You took away some skills, I'm sure,
that will serve him well in the future. And that's
what I have. I mean, here we are having a conversation
now. I'm sure some of the voice elements and
speech elements and performance elements factored
into... removing some of that anxiety from talking
to other people you know regardless of their
background fame status whatever so yeah i mean
that's the thing i think just because maybe you
didn't follow that natural path down a course
or a class or a profession doesn't mean it was
a waste you just have to take a step back and
go okay i'll keep these bits you know you go
in the toy shop i'm gonna keep this car and this
ball but those dolls i don't need them anymore
and i'm gonna and i'm gonna walk out and go press
my face again yeah yeah yeah and i and it is
amazing isn't it i mean you know I mean, you
may have, you may well have done what you're
doing now with, just by being in the, you know,
fire service and paramedic life and all that
kind of stuff. But there has to be something,
I'm sure, within what you've done, you know,
chasing the girl, but getting into that, all
that other stuff that has enabled you, you know,
to be able to be in this position, to be able
to present a certain way, you know, and now,
you know, with the more you're doing it, obviously
it's, you know, you're a natural, you know, so
it's like a, um it it's weird isn't it how things
like that can can come through and and whether
you sometimes just you know it's a subconscious
thing almost you just you just it just happens
and uh but it all has a place it all has a value
i think um you know for sure and so yeah but
i you know in in terms of yeah you know being
on that show i think everybody went up for that
show james Everybody. You're not one of those
people that didn't get out, didn't make it. It's
like everybody went up for it and everybody got
it. No. I mean, there were so many that went
up for it and didn't get it. I mean, I've got
cousins that went up for it. I didn't even know.
You know what I mean? You're not even an actor.
What do you mean you went up for it? You know,
went up for something in it. Well, if James Gearing
could put his name in, I can too. But I mean,
what an amazing project, though, on British soil.
I mean, geez, you know, when it comes to film
and we had no idea the magnitude of what it was
actually going to be, but just something based
on a war that was so prevalent at that time when
we were younger, you know, in our family's history.
I think it had everyone that was even remotely
into drama excited. Yeah, I mean, my great aunt,
I've got a family, a strange family, a strange
really. I don't, not for any kind of weird. family
politics or anything. It just happened. But I
have two great aunts that they married GIs, you
know, so they took off. And I think they're in
the Santa Barbara area somewhere. And and I often
think, you know, if only there was a sort of
relationship there when I was doing it at the
time, because that is obviously a prime resource
to tap into, you know, if they were, you know,
around. But, you know, I did I didn't have the
luxury, although. We had many vets that were
around, obviously, to do that at the time, which
I think, you know, we wouldn't have the luxury
to do the same sort of thing today. It would
be a slightly different experience. I mean, we
were very lucky back then. You know, my character,
and again, I'm jumping ahead, I suppose, James,
but, you know, my character of Doc, you know,
was not alive. But it was great. you know we're
only talking about a couple of years I think
I think it was 98 at some point he passed away
um and there was a great picture of him with
Stephen Ambrose I think one of the sort of later
reunions that that that Eugene did attend you
know because I don't think he was a attending
I don't think he was a I didn't I don't think
he attended that many but certainly towards the
end you know he he did and and um so there's
this great picture of the two of them just chilling
out you know talking and and then of course you
know two years later we're sort of we're boot
camping it getting ready for this for the shoot
you know so um so that was a shame i mean that
was that was just you know selfishly that was
a shame for me you know because i saw some of
the great uh partnerships that were kind of developing
with actor and and real vet um uh you know elsewhere
and just the extra ingredients that were able
to be sprinkled upon what they were doing. You
know, it wasn't it wasn't as it wasn't as though
I completely missed out. I mean, obviously, people
knew who my guy was. So they all had stories
that they would relate to to me or to the actor
that, you know, the actor that was playing them
or whatever. And then the actor would come to
me and Frank John Hughes and while Bill Garnier
would say some stuff, you know. Ralph Spina,
who was alive, he was Rose's assistant medic.
He features Tony Devlin, plays him very well,
I think, in Bastogne. Ralph was really good at
being able to send me some stuff and newspaper
clippings and pictures and just what the kind
of job entailed at the time. That was invaluable.
HBO had a great research team. uh that supplied
a lot of production material i did end up calling
up uh rose uh widow and that was uh you know
who's this guy with a strange accent i'm not
going anywhere near that you know and and i don't
blame her i don't blame her for not coming anywhere
near me i mean it was you know it seemed ridiculous
at the time you know to sort of say hey there's
this multi -million dollar whatever you know
it's going to be it's going to be about you know
your husband's going to be part of it and i'm
going to be playing him and this is tom hanks
and spielberg obviously people would know those
but it's just you know it hadn't been done i
don't you know to the scale on tv something like
that you know um so you know i realized that
that was a bit of a dead end but there were no
hard feelings and i let it get on and it was
just a case of you know building up a picture
of of of the character and of the, I mean, it's
weird calling him a character because it sounds
like it's a fictional, I mean, to a certain degree,
I guess, you know, they, they write it a certain
way, but, um, let's just call him Doc, you know,
so the picture of Doc and, and, and then, you
know, working out how you were going to sort
of, uh, uh, execute it. And I realized that the
pre -shoot drinks that, you know, the budget
for this thing was going to be off the, off the
scale. And I think. The responsibility of, you
know, playing a part and representing a family
was one thing. But then obviously they're ploughing
all of this money into it. You know, the pressure
was there, I suppose. But weirdly, I mean, others
will probably talk about that, you know, feeling
that great pressure in that sense. But I didn't
really. I don't know why. I don't know why I
didn't. I felt the pressure doing the sort of
700 auditions or whatever it was. I mean, we
had a ton of those and it was not necessarily
kind of bedded down who I was going to be initially.
You know, we were all given all sorts of roles
to sort of, you know, I think there were a couple
of, like Nixon and Spears, a couple of the parts
had, you know, some monologue type things in.
which was a good way of just getting you to sort
of, you know, play a scene. Not necessarily you
were going to be that soldier, you know. They
just wanted to see what you could do. And then
they would triage out, you know. I do remember
Doc, you know, it came early on and it stuck.
So whatever I was doing in and around Doc, I
would always end up reading something from him.
and it never let up. You know, that just kept
going on. There were a few detours along the
way, but that was the one. But, yeah, you know,
I've lost my foxhole, James, what we were talking
about there. Well, I think we were initially
going to lead into that, but that was beautiful
because you gave some insight into, you know,
what we're going to talk about. I would love
to hear about, you know, You kind of touched
on the audition process then, so you're reading
other roles. You kind of got honed into Doc's
role. Talk to me then about getting that position
and then boot camp, because you talk about this
crazy journey that drama school sent me. It ultimately
ended up in Australia auditioning for... terminator
2 to open a brand new theme park in japan and
we went to a boot camp run by a guy called captain
dale die who in my conversation after i was like
oh you should have you you would have been great
in band of brothers and i said before back then
i was still somewhat blonde blue -eyed so i'm
sure it would have been a nazi wasn't quite what
i was looking for but i'll take it but regardless
you know i got to meet the man who put you guys
through boot camp um and ultimately i had him
on the show he was episode 35 amazing conversation
amazing insight into what you went through and
then his wife julia as well came on so talk to
me about that i mean you know you have all these
actors you know none of you really know each
other very well you're in this production that's
exciting but as you said not really ever done
before on television so walk me through getting
the role and then the boot camp and then into
production Well, that I mean, I can't remember
meeting anybody from the cast that went on to
be in it during the run of my auditions. And
I think, you know, sometimes I try and keep you
away from other people to make it just so like
you feel like you're the only one up for it sometimes.
I think this was too, too vast, too big for that.
So there were definitely people that I remember
seeing in waiting rooms and we're going in. But
I can't really remember anybody during the phase
of going back and going back again. I was doing
a dinner theater. thing i was actually employed
at the time of going up for the show and it was
uh you know a very light -hearted sort of rompy
comedy light high comedy it was like a neil simon
-esque but not not necessarily that um and that
was kind of good and i felt like that was that
was it didn't get in the way in fact it helped
immensely because it was you know i was working
every night uh so i was keeping the machine oiled
And so when I would come in for notes from the
director, maybe to take on board to then play
the show that night, you know, after the notes,
I'd sort of go into the dressing room or go in
somewhere, go into a space somewhere and look
at the latest sides, pages to read that would
be the audition piece for Band of Brothers, you
know. And they were constantly being sort of
given out and whatever as we were going on, you
know. So it all helped. It all kind of. I felt
like it all boded well to sort of going into
the room and then delivering something. And at
that age, I suppose, you know, I don't know.
It's that old fearlessness. I just didn't, you
know, there's something about the experience
of you've just got to, the external blocks trying
to block out all that. It's not about the work
and doing the work because, you know, the self
-belief isn't the thing that gets shifted around,
but confidence can ebb and flow. If that makes
any sense. And those external blocks and the
pressure of the high production and this exec
and this big casting name, and then you've got
Tom Hanks and then you've got Spielberg, all
of those things, not their fault. They're just,
they're the names, you know, but you can, those
kinds of things can get in your sphere and, and
be not very helpful. It's nothing to do with
the work and whether you think you can play the
role, but it can sort of like, bump up against
it and make it a bit turbulent, more turbulent
than it needs to be. So there was a bit of that.
That was an acting exercise in itself. But that's
what I mean. That was kind of more of a pressure
to get rid of that than when I was actually on
set doing it. It's like now your butt is on the
line because this is what's going to be presented
to the world. I'm much more relaxed when it comes
to being... on on thing on the set you know doing
it with the actors and and when the heat is really
on you know weird warped thing that but anyway
so i end up doing several i end up getting detoured
a little bit we went i read for something that
i think i can i think i've said this before and
and i think i can say this i mean it's been years
but you know tom cruise was doing some sort of
thing about west point And there was a point
during my reading that I was given this thing
that was in development. And I don't know whether
he was going to produce, direct or both or whatever.
And I started to read for one of the leads there.
So completely not Band of Brothers related, but
it seemed to be connected to the same people.
I felt it went okay, that one as well. I was
sort of in the zone then. But I did have that
feeling like, oh, I don't want to be, hope this
is not going to get in the way of what I'm going
through with this particular project. Because
this was a project that I was sort of falling
in love with every time I was going in. And you
get a feeling as an actor when things are close
and that they may like you. And that's a good
thing because that gives you confidence again,
you know, to sort of deliver stuff. And then,
so then, but then that happened and then I went
on and, and of course it all led up to the big
Athenaeum or Athenaeum hotel in Piccadilly Circus.
I know that Frank and probably Ron and some others
in LA, they had the experience of Spielberg being
in the room and filming and all this sort of
stuff. Well, we had Tom in London, full cast
away mode, obviously. So I didn't, nobody recognized
him. you know, at that point. But no Wilson left
that behind. And so he was just he was just he
was just there with a bunch of execs. Tony Toe
is a very influential sort of partner, really,
with with with him in the in the in the in the
company. And he was Tony went on to not only
was he a producer, but he directed as well an
episode in the show. You know, that was that
was the moment where it was solely Roe at that
point. And, you know, doing it in front of everybody.
And then I remember that there was a point where
Tom got off. He had a satchel bag or something.
He lifted it off himself and he just and I'm
doing the scene. And he's handing me it during
the scene. And I just took it and just carried
on doing whatever I was doing. But then that
became, I must have maybe tried, I was doing
something perhaps, like miming something. So
then he gave me the prop. And then I'm working
with the prop, managed to work with the prop
all right, I guess, and not bump into anything.
And so I came away feeling like I did. I did
all right. I did all right. You know, it's either,
you know, and it's horrible feeling coming away
from something and feeling like you didn't. That's
awful. You know, there's, you know, especially
if you're in something like this when you're
going on and on. And I mean, it is quite unique
that I went on so long for this, but, you know,
there are other things I've been on where you
feel like, oh, you're getting close, you're getting
close and it doesn't. You know, you screen test
for something, you get to that point. And I've
been there before where you become, you know,
you end up being the bridesmaid and you go, oh
my God, no. And that didn't work out. But, you
know, I mean, in those situations, I've sort
of gone out of the room thinking, oh, my God,
you know, that's that wasn't the one. And there's
a sense it's like a Jedi feeling you have and
it normally plays out. Sometimes you feel like,
well, I don't know how I got that because that
audition was terrible, but they're rare. Normally
your instincts are all in tune, you know, and
you can feel it. And but I came so I came away
from that thinking, well, I did what I know I
could do. and felt good about it. And I'd walked
around London for miles aimlessly. I didn't know
where I was going. I was just working. Well,
that's a lie. I didn't know where I was going,
but I was kind of, there was no destination.
I was buzzing. I was just, the adrenaline had
to go somewhere. And, but then I didn't, I can't
remember. I don't know how long it was. It seemed
like an age, you know, I was, I remember I was
driving my dad's car, I think, or something like
that. Agent called up and said, are you, You
know, where are you? Are you sitting down somewhere?
I said, well, I'm well, I'm in the you know,
I was on the phone, obviously, but not allowed.
But I sort of said, well, I'm driving. You know,
she's going to pull over. Just get somewhere.
Just pull over. And instantly I'm thinking she's
got something good to tell me. And it's and I'm
sure and I think it's about that. But I wasn't
trying to let that I needed to pull over first
and then, you know, sink the energy up to be
able to absorb what she was going to say. And
then she put out, in fact, in fact, it was the
funniest thing she said to me. Didn't turn out
to be true at all, but she, the funniest thing,
the way she broke it to me was, okay, I'm parked.
What's the news? She said, typical agent, really.
You're rich. That was the first thing, which
is, which was, let me, let me go on record now.
It was not that. I mean, it was very well paid.
They looked after me, but you know, I was a sort
of like dinner theatre, couple of TV jobs. I
was a broke actor. So in terms of it's all relative,
my rich, you know. Richard Branson would be like,
nah. Exactly. So that was the thing. That's how
she broke it to me. So I knew what she was talking
about. But then, of course, the part of the reward,
and it was a reward, you know, was to be able
to partake in this boot camp experience. You
know, you had to do this thing. which again would,
you know, when you, especially when you're a
younger actor, you know, it's like, yeah, that
shit, you know, is just part of it. And you want
to just, you want to just be enveloped by it
all. And you just want to commit wholeheartedly.
Nothing else matters. You just want to get into
it. And, but there was an issue. The fact that
I still had this theater, I was still doing this
play, you know, and part of the thing was that
this bootcamp was still, two weeks more to run.
So that was a little sticky, to be honest. But
then the great Meg Lieberman and HBO, they sort
of got involved and they were kind of sort of
saying, hey, what are you thinking? You're not
going to let this guy do it, which is a great
opportunity and all this sort of stuff. And I
think they flexed a bit of muscle. I think they
may have... paid them something i don't know
what it was i mean my role wasn't great it wasn't
a huge role anyway so um you know i wasn't a
massive miss but uh the director was sort of
a friend of mine he directed me at my drama academy
uh and i felt you know bad about that and he
was a little sore but then obviously everything
worked out and uh and i got to go to boot camp
you know um but as i say i mean i didn't see
anybody from from the cast during any of those,
any of those rehearsals at Sori auditions. And
then the first person I think I saw when I got
to, when I was being picked up to go to bootcamp,
I think it was Scott Grimes. I think Malarkey,
Scott who played Malarkey, I think he was the,
I think he was the very first person that I saw.
And, you know, and then we, you know, we, we
kind of assembled and, And then, you know, that's
when Dale came into the picture and and his sort
of, you know, the cadre and the people that he
had with him in Warriors Inc. at the time was
so, you know, Dale quite rightly gets the press.
He's a great speaker. He's a great all rounder.
But those people that he assembled, you know,
and that. That was a talented manoeuvre as well.
He picked the right people that could really
rip you in half. But also, every one of them
had great humour, I remember, and that was part
of it. So if you needed to have a release of
tension, they could do it with a turn of phrase
or just some kind of slapsticky thing, I don't
know, silly thing. that you felt like, oh, God,
great, you are human, you know, not just this,
you know, Terminator 2 type thing that was going
to come for you and just, you know, destroy you.
It was just, you know, so the balance was there.
And I think for a lot of us, not all of us, but
for, you know, a lot of us were into or played
sports and did stuff. I was a big footballer
at the time or soccer player, you know. Uh, so
I, uh, the, the fitness side of things was not
a, it was not an issue. I'm not a great, I'm
more of a night, a night owl than an early bird.
So getting up and doing those runs, you know,
I had to get used to that, you know, so for,
but maybe the first of the first mile of three
or five was probably, I was seeing eyelids only
and just, you know, I had a sense of where we
were running and then I'd gradually open the
eyes and, and, and complete the rest of it. you
know i just i just felt like the way they handled
it the way they orchestrated it you know you
talk about all the sort of shot listing and the
storyboarding and the logistical well even before
that let's talk about the three years of research
going into something like that all of that is
just mind it's like my mind swims with all the
logistical details but boot camp alone just the
way they choreographed and coordinated I'm like,
my God, this takes a level of organisation beyond
anything that I would ever be able to do. I was
just so impressed by that. They had German platoons
in boot camp with us that we never saw, but they
were trained separately. That's where you would
have ended up, James. They would have been there.
And then when we were doing operations, you know,
some kind of, you know, to get this flag or defend
this building or whatever, they would suddenly
appear in uniform with the weapons of the period.
And they would just be there. They would just
appear from all over the place. And it was amazing.
And then they'd go away again. We wouldn't see
them. So we'd be doing all of this. You know,
we're in the barracks. We're covering a lot of
ground. Never saw anybody else. And I know. one
of the sort of one of the trainers uh was involved
who special forces actually i think was an sas
guy and i've worked with his name's paul pawnby
and i and i worked with paul later on a show
called strike back out in south africa lovely
lovely guy um but he was doing a lot of the training
i think with or he was involved with with the
sort of german outfit and um you know i so i
i just thought the way that they the way that
they did it was amazing. And, of course, you
know, I'm learning about capillary bleeding,
venous bleeding, arterial bleeding, learning
how to dress, how to administer sulfur and the
serrets and stuff like that in the classroom,
a lot of that with Dale. And Dale, I think, you
know, he always had this thing that he would
say about, you know, you look after the medic,
the medic looks after you. He had experiences,
I think, himself, you know, being helped by medics
in service. and um so he was a great teacher
great nurturer uh but you know my part of my
thing from for boot camp was to obviously we're
all called part of it was we were we didn't know
each other's names it was all about the character
names and you all had to be you just you know
fit into that role and be that role from boot
camp you know which everybody did everybody embraced
But part of my deal was after a day's activity
and after chow, I'd have to go around and check
on everybody. All the platoons, corker and boots,
you know where I'm going with that. Killers,
man. And the first few days, it's just, oh. And
so the second skins were coming out. But after
a while, people were starting to come to me with
all sorts of ailments, James. Weird rashes. What
am I going to do? There's a second skin. But
one of the things that always makes me laugh,
and I've said this before, but Ron Livingston,
the great Ron, we had fish for dinner one night
and he got this javelin of a fish bone stuck
at the back of his throat and didn't know what
to do with it. And then he came up with the idea,
oh, well, you know, I'll go to Doc. He'll know
what to do. So it was it was, you know, I got
this sort of the flashlight, the torch there.
And I looked at the back of his throat and indeed
it was there. It was just awful looking. I was
like, man, I just I didn't know I was not gagging
all the time. So I ended up. I kind of created
this Frankenstein contraption or sterilized.
obviously. And I could add a trigger mechanism
on one hand and add tweezers on the other. And
I don't know what was the sort of like, it was
some sort of pole device that was big enough
so I could, and you as a paramedic, you're already
having kittens, I can tell. But it's like, you
know, I put this thing into his mouth to try
and cross, because it was late, you know, it
was really late. There was nowhere to go. We
were in the middle of nowhere. And I'm just I'm
trying to get this thing out. And he's by this
point, he is gagging. And I'm sort of pulling
out and going back in. And I'm like, he's not
giving it a thought. I'm not giving it a thought.
It's just like there's a job to be done. Nix
is in trouble. Let's get this taken care of.
And and lo and behold, we did. I mean, it was,
you know, it wasn't pleasant, but we got it.
We got it out. And, you know, he. he lived to
see another day and i often joke about the fact
that it could it could have been the other way
and lament we could have been lamenting all the
work that we lost yeah i killed i killed the
kid from general ben that's not something you
want on your resume you know and he had video
diaries to shoot you know so that wasn't going
to be you know uh a great thing but um so you
know that was part of my package to do to do
that but we were all kind of it was it was an
amazing thing to sort of it served its purpose
in terms of you know your your training for that
period to soldier for that period but you're
also bonding and you're ironing out all the kinks
obviously you know you're making all the mistakes
you can there uh but you know and they were sort
of throwing out promotions and this that and
the other as we were going on you know and that's
you know damien was kind of having that to go
through all that stuff and um you know the purpose
the main purpose was just to to create that that
that band of brothers feel and and i think you
know just in terms of the camaraderie the commitment
to the cause you know super super talented and
I haven't been around pound for pound, you know,
uh, actors of that caliber as many as that, you
know, ever since, you know, it's just, it's just,
you are by the very nature of being around those
people, you're, you sort of are elevated yourself.
And that was a, you'd like to think a two way
street, you know, everybody was kind of, there's
no, I didn't see, uh, any ego involved because
of the nature of what it was, you know? Um, so.
By the time we finished that up, which was a
great sense of achievement, by the time we got
to set, we were pretty damn tight. It was a really
good feeling to go into day one. You're going
to day one on other things, maybe. Maybe you've
had a table read, so you've met people then.
You do your bit and say hi and whatever, and
have a bit of a laugh and joke that afternoon.
And then you're going away and then you're turning
up on set. You know, it's time to maybe do a
little bit of rehearsal if you're lucky. But,
you know, you're doing it. You know, we had that
experience. And I know there were others that
came in to play later on. But, you know, for
the core of us to have that initial thing was
a great springboard, a great stepping stone,
a great foundation to go on and really hit the
ground running, you know, which I think we all
did. When I spoke to Dale, one of the most interesting
stories, and I could relate so much because we
use that same exact technique in a good fire
department. You make it awful. You bring the
men and women together. And by the time you leave,
it's a bond that will stay through your whole
career. But he told of Matt Damon being kept
away from the rest of the cast during that boot
camp. So talk to me about David Schwimmer, because
clearly from watching the show, he and I love
that quote, you salute. The rank, not the man.
I've used that many times in my career in the
fire service. So talk to me about how that factored
into your experience. Well, I think it was a
quirky little device. I mean, he had a knee injury,
in quotations. I don't know. I don't know what
the reality of that was. But he did about a day,
if that. I can't remember now. And they pulled
him out of it. And then they returned him later
on. So he was kind of... You know, other fellas
might know a bit more about this, you know, whether
there was some sort of genuine thing and HBO
got like they were, you know, they didn't want
to see the star man get injured or whether it
was a device by Dale and such, you know, to sort
of like create that thing. But it did have an
effect, I suppose. It did have a thing, you know.
But I wouldn't say, you know, with all reports
of the real Sobel and the real kind of feelings
of the men. even though he really you know did
an incredible job in terms of his part in creating
this this this legendary easy company you know
the actual that kind of that animosity that none
of us felt that i don't think really i i certainly
didn't not not with david in fact so there may
have been that if anything we would be mocking
him and ridiculing him for missing all the the
stuff you know so you'd be you know hack on him
for that um but it wasn't you know, it wasn't
in a, in a, in a nasty way or anything. In fact,
you know, a lot of the time when David was in
town, we'd, you know, we'd go out and, you know,
it was a really, I remember one night, you know,
we were out with him and he, you know, obviously
had the cap on and he was doing his stuff, but
he was impossible to, at that point with the
friends fame, you know, it was really, he could
not, his physicality, everything about him. I
mean, we went to some ridiculous thing on the
embankment. It was some sort of bar club thing.
and near the Thames. And, you know, it was, you
know, we had about 10 minutes of just, you know,
having a drink together. And then we were swarmed
and we would just, it was just ridiculous, you
know, so we had to go, we had to get out of there.
And, but so outside of it, you know, outside
of it, once we, bootcamp was, you know, done,
I think, you know, it was, it was nothing, there
was no problem, you know, but I thought it was
a pretty nice way to, for him psychologically.
to kind of have that detachment, uh, to come
in and not have any sort of, you know, emotional
connection or bond with, with anybody really,
you know, uh, doing the work, doing, doing to
play. So, you know, um, uh, but as I say, you
know, yeah, now outside of that, uh, you know,
we, we would see him and, um, at dinner or drink
or whatever. And, uh, you know, the same thing
was done for, for the replacements that would
come in. You know, a lot of them, the brief was,
you know, the cadre and Dale would sort of say,
look, they haven't gone what you've gone through.
And if you think about what Easy Company went
through and Takoa and going through Normandy
and, you know, all this kind of stuff. And now,
you know, you reach Eindhoven or whatever and
you get these replacements. They hadn't been
through that, not with you, you know. Now there's
a thing. And that was obviously a thing, a genuine
thing, you know, that people like Heffron or
Shifty Powers would talk about. And so they were
planting that seed as well for us to sort of,
you know, have a bit, maybe a bit more standoffish
or a bit more, have a bit more of an edge around
these guys that haven't been and gone through
what you've done, you know, which was fine. And
a lot of people, that was, you know, there was
a methodical way of approach to that. sort of
worked i suppose in some senses but even that
i felt like it was like a half measure for me
because i was always you know it goes back to
that thing about you know i always just felt
like uh because there were a few people that
were suddenly really taking it personally i remember
and i'm like listen this is part of the thing
because you know you want to you want an actor
to be ultimately confident doing the work um
and and and to feel like there isn't something
that's actually personal that's outside of the
work that they're thinking wait a minute what's
what's happening here what did i do what did
i say so i felt like then you know call me a
whistleblower james i don't know but i just felt
like there was some some moments i had to go
to when when people were you know certain actors
i was like this isn't you this isn't you this
is part of the thing you know this is the way
and try to explain the history of it in in the
reality of it you know what did happen so if
you get any of that that's all part of it but
then you know maybe feed that in and, and, and,
you know, and you'll be able to play something,
you know? So I don't know. But I didn't, I didn't
necessarily think it was a bad idea as well.
I mean, there was that, there was a sort of middle
ground there somewhere. But, you know, all of
these techniques were interesting. I felt like
there were, you know, filmmaking in general,
you know, or training, whatever. There's always,
there's always that, there's always those little
devices that. and little enablers that you're
given and that you can learn from that will be
able to give you just that little extra percent,
which I think, you know, when we, when it came
to doing the work, I would say most more often
than not, they were the right things to listen
to and to do. And you know yeah, they were, they
were, they were, they were allies to the process.
Yeah. Well, it definitely worked on screen, 100%.
Like, you know, as you said with Sobol, you could
feel it. You could feel it through the screen.
And then with the replacements, some of the animosity,
you know, you could feel that too. And I saw
it when Dale, you know, when we went through
the bootcamp, the original cast in Japan, and
then people started coming through. There was
a second wave about a year later. And I remember
feeling that in myself. Like, yeah, because some
people came from other places and, you know.
for lack of a better word, very arrogant. And
you're like, you haven't earned the right to
be arrogant here. You know what I mean? And then
when you look at the fire service, which is the
other thing that I know, as a probationary firefighter,
you know nothing. As a probationary firefighter
that actually does know other stuff, but you've
come to a new fire department, you have to have
humility as well. Because when in reality, without
being dramatic now, lives actually depend on
your performance. You can't walk into a new fire
department and say, everyone, you have to trust
me implicitly because I've never done this before
or I've done this for five years or 10 years
or whatever. You have to build that trust. So
I think that that process, whether it was by
accident or deliberate, I'm guessing it was probably
deliberate. And of course, like you said, no
animosity to the actor, but the acting process,
I think by accident or deliberate, it worked
so, so well. And it jumped out at me on screen.
I'm sure members of the military and law enforcement
did as well. Yeah. Well, I'm glad. I'm glad.
I mean, I think it's, yeah, it was such an important
piece to portray. And I think, you know, the
vets themselves, as I said, you know, talked
a lot about that type of thing. And some of them,
I think it may be Shifty Powers. I remember the
real Shifty Powers talking about how he didn't,
he just didn't want to know the replacements
because, you know, he didn't want to see a young,
you know, green soldier kind of just. buy it.
He didn't want to see anybody. He didn't want
to have that situation where they're gone in
no time flat. His distance from new people coming
in was deliberate for those reasons. In the script,
in Bastogne, you know, it's not necessarily,
well, Rowe does this to replacements, he does
it to Heffron, but he does it to most of the
others, even the Decoa men. You know, we're playing
that idea of not using nicknames, sort of keeping
some kind of distance psychologically, you know,
not getting too close because he knows that chances
are he's going to have to try and save them,
you know, at some point. and and the chances
are he may not be able to so it's it's like uh
so we kind of try to highlight some of that going
on um in a different way because obviously you
know roe was there from the beginning but it
was uh i thought that was an interesting thing
to to look at um as well as things like you know
combat fatigue which we tried to kind of touch
on as well and and and um i think that was the
thing with all of our With the script, it was
well -researched and well -written by all the
people involved. You know, we did have that added
extra of having vets either on the other end
of the line or with us, literally traveling with
us, and they're on set. So, you know, there's
the validation. Did this happen? Yeah, they go,
you know, that's pretty spot on, you know, or
that's a crack of shit. And they go on and go
on and tell you how it was done, you know, or
whether you would say that or not, you know,
so, so that was great. It was a great source
of confidence again. You know, and you get to
a, when you get to that level of confidence and
it's not being overconfident, you know, you need
that thing that's going to be able to relax you
enough to forget about everything. You throw
it, everything away. You literally forget about
it, play the moments. But those moments are golden
when everything is. uh when the homework's been
done you know uh because you're not floundering
then you're not floundering if the homework is
done if the prep is done if you've talked to
the people you've had the confirmation of certain
things you're guided by the best people in the
business you're acting alongside the best actors
you've ever worked with you know it's hard to
hard to mess that up you know in some ways obviously
you can still be received negatively for whatever
reasons you know but i don't think we could have
been you can't label out the lack of commitment
to the cause or just how thorough we were all
in and i don't just mean actors i mean across
the board you know everybody was in tune in that
period of time to deliver the best possible work
they could well you talked about the real men
some of them being on set some of them being
accessible still um I share a clip often, and
it is of Dick Winters recalling a letter. I can't
remember if it's himself or one of the other
men, but a grandchild says, Grandpa, were you
a hero in the war? And Dick Winters starts choking
up, and he says, No, but I served with a company
of heroes. So I always refer to this. If you
want to debunk the manly man, rub some dirt in
it, don't be a pussy bullshit that we were raised
on. Look at the real men of Easy Company as they
speak on each episode of Band of Brothers. And
over and over again, you see the raw emotions
60 plus years later. So were you and or any of
the cast members exposed to... some of that raw
emotion from those men, the cost of war 60 plus
years later? Well, that was Sergeant Mike Ranney,
I believe, that wrote that letter. I didn't have,
obviously, as I said, I didn't have Doc. I didn't
have that facility to be able to go to him. And
Ralph Spina was a telephone conversation. So
that was, you know, an isolated event. Obviously,
there were other actors that like Jimmy Madio,
who played Baconti, Frank Baconti. I mean, they
had a very close relationship. Frank was the
obvious one for me with his relationship to Bill.
I think that was like fathoms deep. And up to
the point of him passing away, it was fathoms
deep. So they might have got into those situations,
you know, and had, and Frank may have seen things
or, because the thing about Heffron and sort
of Garnier and Heffron were they, they were talkers,
you know, they were very open about that, you
know? And so you could, you could get to the
sort of, to the details of some stuff. And, you
know, it's, I mean, you've seen it on the show,
you know, you, you look, you look at them. which
is the best thing for all that we did. There's
nothing that tops the actual talking heads of
the real guys, obviously. But you see, don't
you? You see how raw, I mean, just Winters, that
moment you're talking about, which is like, you
know, arguably the moment of the entire series,
isn't it? How somebody like Winters, you know,
he's got that, it's right there, isn't it? That
emotion, it's right there. The eye's well up.
It's just, it's there. And you have that moment
with Johnny Martin, the real Johnny Martin in
the talking head. and others, you know, that
just, you know, it's really there. It's like
a flimsy lid on top of it all. And, you know,
the love is just, like you say, their love, they're
not, it's just there. It's so sort of palpable.
I love that about them. You know, they really
do, they really feel fondly and... I think those
reunions, you know, for those that did attend,
you know, who could feel that they could attend,
you know, you could see it. You can see the sort
of the, the, what it means to be around, to be
around those fellas, you know, you know, and,
and, and just to, to divert slightly, but to,
to go back to what I was saying about that, that
hub and that sort of charity that I saw, you
know, the same thing happens, that happens there,
you know, it's just the, the glee that sort of,
with within them you know to see people of their
kind you know people that they were with in in
these extraordinary conditions you know being
able to share that uh even if it's just sort
of just a feeling you know then you have to be
talking specifically about it it's just being
in the company of that makes the difference and
can lift a face and crack a smile um you know
i love that love that sort of they've they've
got that you know um so and i so i think you
know they the bottom line about band of brothers
and you know and dale's dale said this many a
time is that for all of the the big battles and
and we all we all love to see those kind of things
those spectacular events on screen happening
and of course depicting moments in history like
this but it is about those human stories it is
about the human connection it isn't just about
being human And the personalities within that,
you know, that old cliche of ordinary people
doing extraordinary things, people we can relate
to that are in that. And then you question, well,
James, you know, with what you've done in your
career, you know, I'm more, you know, you've
done stuff, you know, but I can ask the question
as a thespian saying, if I was in that position,
how would I react? Would I be able to deal with
that? You know? those life or death situations
which you've done you know how would i people
do that you know and and and so um yeah it's
it's it's it's that it's it's the human and so
we were fortunate you know to to have people
that that were able to speak about their experiences
and be able to connect and be able to give a
little insight into the sort of psychology of
it all and how they feel about things and yes
I'm sure after a few beers, you know, it got
quite emotional for, for, for, for the real bill
and Garnier and Frank. And they're talking about
stuff because when they talk about that, that's
where it really came out. When I think they're
talking about like Penn Carla or Mark, you know,
people that were, they lost along the way, you
know, and they think about that are buried, you
know, over here in Europe, you know, that's when
it hits home. I think a lot of the time, you
know, it's, it's just, just that, you know, it's
just remembering that, that sort of felt that,
that, that tree that has been failed, that tree
of youth, you know, and, and so that gets them
emotional, but I think, you know, that, that,
yeah, I, you know, I didn't personally have that
sort of moment, but I heard stories and, you
know, It just stands to reason in many ways that
it would be like that. But we were just lucky.
We were just lucky to have that resource and
something to tap into. It was priceless. It was
invaluable. Like I say, you couldn't make exactly
the same type of thing now. You just couldn't.
So we were very lucky boys to be able to have
that. Absolutely. Well, I want to read something
that Dale sent to me. So I asked him and Julia,
hey, have you got anything? And I'm going to
have Shane on the show. And so he sent me this
email. Doc was a serious and dedicated student
in training. I did my best to give him field
first aid instruction, but he always wanted to
know more. And he did some studying, which only
led to some more difficult questions. And those
questions were some of the most insightful and
penetrating things I've ever had to discuss with
him. I mostly had to reflect on things I remembered
personally about being wounded. He soaked it
all up like a sponge, and I saw him recreate
some of that during scenes that we were shooting.
Made me very proud. There were a lot of emotional
moments, but the one that nearly brought tears
to my eyes, which, by the way, is incredible
to bring tears to Delta's eyes, was the scene
when he sits next to the French nurse, both of
them exhausted mentally and physically. I saw
something in Doc's eyes that truly moved me.
Now, kind of piggybacking on that, as a paramedic
and something I've spoken about a lot, I lost
so many people in my career. I was kind of what
they term as a black cloud. So I had all the
people, as we were talking prior to recording,
that should have survived but didn't. had these
kind of unsurvivable things whether it's brain
bleeds or triple A's or you know all these awful
things that can happen to the human body and
so there is that inability to save which is crushing
because you go to school you read the textbooks
you play on the mannequin like do A B and C and
they'll jump up give you a hug and bake you a
cake the reality is not that not even close so
in the scene in Bastogne you talk about the Belgian
nurse that was one of the most powerful scenes
for me because as a medic myself i can relate
to that feeling that feeling of exhaustion that
um moral injury that you know crushing weight
of you know death after death after then don't
get me wrong you know there's a lot of pre -codes
and things that we did save but there's still
you know a body count to every medic every firefighter
every police officer's career that amounts so
talk to me about you know that scene and and
you know what it was like from the inside looking
out It was such a fabulous scene to be involved
with. And I think David Leland, who directed
it, was such an influential player for me. And
again, you go back to acute sensitivity of subject
matter. Dale has that as the guy overseeing things.
But David, as a director, theatre background,
but great filmic director, he and I would often
be in the foxhole first thing in the morning,
just he and I. That's it. That's it. Everybody
was sent away. or told to come later on, you
know, and we'd just talk about it, talk about
what we're going to need to do today, what the
scene was, thoughts about it, how we're going
to handle it. And then he'd bring some of the
techie guys in and we'd go through the specifics
of certain things and other people would come
in to play. But it was almost like a, in that
sense, it was like a play. You know, you had
the real sense of, you know, talking about stuff,
having the time and the luxury to do that. It's
very unusual for, especially TV. But these were
shot like, obviously, movies every episode, you
know. Well, I think that is my favourite scene.
The juxtaposition of that and trying to save
and not being able to, the soldier in the crypt,
if you remember before that, a lovely guy called
Tim getting very sticky with fake blood all afternoon
and very hot. But I think, like you say, that
almost feeling of like... Well, that relentless
carousel of helplessness and hopelessness, almost
trying to do what they're doing on limited resources.
You know, it was emotionally charged in that
Crip scene, if you remember. And I think Doc
kind of just, it gets angry, not with the nurses
or anything, but it's just that how futile it
all seems, you know. And then, of course. you've
got that very quiet scene that is right on the
back of it, I think, isn't it? And it's with
Ro and Renee and some sort of smoking kind of
cinders somewhere. And, you know, it's a cold
setting, of course, or it's supposed to be, but,
you know, it's one of the warmest scenes of the
show, I think, you know. It's written that way.
I'm not just saying because we played it some
way, but it's just written that way. And that's
what struck me that something this warm in something
so cold. But yeah, that sense of fatigue, that
sense of helplessness, but that connection, obviously,
in terms of what they were both trying to do,
save lives in a theatre of war. I mean, it's
got to be the hardest thing to do, isn't it?
And you've got this, obviously, you know, there's
a Cajun French and there's a sort of Belgian
French speaking nurse, you know, you have these,
this connection there, but I just love that.
And then obviously the chocolate that comes out
and there's all that stuff. But I think, yeah,
that, that meeting of that, that sort of spiritual
connection between them, you know, there's a
lot said, there's a lot. there's a lot said without
saying much, I think is the thing. And that's
always the good screenwriting and, and as actors,
you know, playing those sorts of things are the
best things to play, you know? And I think, yeah,
I think, you know, all that you're getting from
it or all that you've just said to me about it
is, is really what we were trying to do, you
know, so to, to, to, to bring that all forward
and, and, and, and just to put it right up front
that this. this rotation. Cause I even thinking
even at the end of that scene, there's some,
there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a man
coming in, isn't it? There's an injured man that
they they're coming in and they're off again,
you know? So it's just, it's the minute, this
is the smallest of windows where they have that
connection and ability to just have a, a moment,
you know, the air break is released just a little
bit. I wish you'd taken some chocolate, but there
you go. But anyway, he didn't. So. and then they're
up and they're off and they're, they're gone
again, you know, but, but I think, yeah, I think
it's a great point in the script. I think, you
know, in broadening out a little bit, you know,
dollying back, I think that what, what an interesting,
and I'm not just saying this because I was in
it and I happened to be like the, you know, Damien
for a month in that episode, but I was, I just
think it was a smart thing for HBO to do. I don't,
you know, battle of the bulge. I mean, we're
all familiar with, you know, The shellacking,
as it were, you know, as it was known with the
German shelling and the Bojack and all that sort
of stuff. But, you know, because we had those
two episodes, we had plenty of time for that
to happen. The spectacle of that, you know, which
needed to also be seen, you know, for sure. But
the way they just kind of went off and decided
to see it first and foremost through the eyes
of a medic was just I just thought was an incredible
thing, you know. I hadn't seen it. We've seen
a few things like that. You mentioned Hacksaw
Ridge earlier. Other things have been seen now
through that sort of the medic's eyes, as it
were. But I can't really remember anything similar
that was just, aside from a scene or two that
a medic was in, not to see it through the POV
of one. And I think it was just a masterstroke.
I think it was a really great thing to do. And
it gave you that midpoint. in the series, you
know, a different sort of perspective. And then,
of course, we return to the main through line.
But yeah, I think it was all in there, you know,
going back to that scene, you know, in that point
to sort of depict that fatigue, to depict that
sort of, you know, they're carrying on. They
know what they're dealing with. But the heroic
element, of course, is that they're carrying
on regardless. And so they go back. But it's
almost, it's just such a, it's such a sweet little
section, a little, you know, a very sort of,
a scene that I feel like sits well within the
chaos of it all. And you need those breaks. You
need those breaks. It's relenting. I read somewhere
that the amount of blood and all kinds of stuff
just in Bastogne alone was more than the entire
Saving Private Ryan. And that's just in Bastogne.
We haven't got to the breaking point episode
yet. So they did the hell out of it. They really
did their homework and they wrote some scripts
and they threw everything at it to depict it
the way that it came across. But having those
moments for the audience also, if you want to
get dramatically theatrical in terms of the structure
of things, you need those breaks. And also, what
does it do? It touches upon what I was saying
earlier. It brings it back to the human element.
Most important. Most important. It's not whether
you can load up an M1 quick. It's like, let's
just look at the human element. Not even about
dressing or, you know. putting a serret in somebody
just two people talking about their experiences
or not talking about their experiences but just
just two people having a moment to communicate
and two personalities uh that are different but
at the same time so alike and i think it was
pitched just right you know no it was it was
amazing and really what resonated with me obviously
i didn't have a moment with a belgian nurse during
my career but i will parallel it for example
there was one horrendous car accident where a
little girl was killed and she was roughly the
same age as my son and i remember you know calling
him after that and obviously not telling him
anything and he's really really young but calling
home and just talking to him you know and then
And you're halfway through, maybe you finish
a conversation, the tones go off, you jump on
the rig and off you go, run another one. Or you're
at the hospital, you've just literally offloaded
a patient that, you know, nearly dead, dead,
whatever they were. And then your radio starts
blaring, hey, we're short of people, we need
you back out there. And, you know, you clean
up your shit and you get back out there again.
So, yeah, that pause, you know, whether it's
in the EMS cafeteria, just grabbing a freaking,
you know, cup of coffee before you go out. back
into the gang lands of the streets or whatever
it is that, you know, you do in your area, there
is such a strong parallel between that scene.
I'm sure obviously, you know, military medics,
but you know, law enforcement fire and all the
other people that are kind of out, out when everyone
else is safely in their beds. Yeah. Well, listen,
a big salute to you, James, that, you know, I
mean, I had the luxury of not doing it for real,
you know, and not having it really that sort
of, you know, I just, It is incredible. It is
incredible. And I don't know how you come away
without scar tissue. And that kind of circles
back to what we were talking about earlier, the
things in place of when you get out of that,
if you can survive something like that. It almost
seems like that's the first hurdle. It's a big
hurdle, but you've got over that. But now how
do you survive the rest of it on the outside?
you know so it's it's um it's complex you know
no it is and you know and it's it's a it's a
constant work in progress to maintain your physical
mental health in this profession because sadly
especially in the fire service in america the
way that they work those men and women is counter
productive when it comes to overall mental and
physical health so they're literally swimming
upstream the whole time and so yeah i mean that's
that's the reason i started this podcast and
you know i think The people who are fortunate
have a good foundation and a solid childhood
behind them where maybe you had some stuff, but
you were able to process that healthily and move
on. Or maybe you were just so fortunate you didn't
have a lot in the bucket when you first entered.
But yeah, and it's just this ongoing thing. But
sadly, a lot of us succumb to physical illness,
to mental illness. And that's why I think so
many of us are raising our voices and saying,
look, the way we're doing it is literally, you
know killing us you know killing our men and
women and enough of us die on the job itself
you know by fire by gunfire whatever it is but
the thought that they come home and then take
their own life you know or or succumb to you
know a work -related cancer or heart disease
i mean to me that those preventable elements
are unacceptable you know i can't stop some horrific
tornado blowing through here and you know ripping
me out of my house but i can stop at least some
of the diseases that You know, we can potentially
get and it's such a such a hard sell in a profession
where if you're not careful, you're just purely
looking at how many bums you got and how many
seats and you're not looking, as you said, at
the human beings in each of those seats. Yeah.
I mean, are you noticing anything, though, James,
where, you know, in and around your sort of.
sphere you know of things that are i mean you're
doing your bit obviously and you're and you have
great guests and they're doing theirs but um
you know are you in a in a in a broader circle
are you seeing stuff that is kind of trying to
get in place you know maybe at sort of state
level or is there's just or is it really an indie
venture that their independence are really taking
on themselves through communities and stuff like
that to kind of you know show the way forward
Yeah, no, I'd say India is a perfect example.
Yeah, there are some incredible human beings,
many of whom they're either still in the profession
or transitioned out of the uniform professions
that now take it upon themselves to start nonprofits
and training organizations. Well, simultaneously,
governmentally, you know, it's not. I mean, we
have a union and yet the working conditions are
terrible, you know, and so there's, you know,
I. Probably piss off a lot of people when I say
this, but there's a lot of chess beating about
our union. But the work week hasn't even been
figured out yet. So I don't know how you can
be so proud of yourself taking all these people's
dues and you haven't even fixed something as
basal as that. So, you know, it is it's a lot
of voices. But again, as we said, division versus
unity. My hope is enough of us on the ground
level unify and demand change. Whether it's in
the military, all the burn drums and all these
things that you're hearing now are causing our
veterans illness. Agent Orange from Vietnam and
the sleep deprivation is the big thing. you know
with us and the fact that our responders are
working sometimes double the work week of a person
that pushes papers for a living is absolute insanity
so yeah but it's it's about it's you know educated
and angry is what i like to say that's what we
need to do give people the tools to understand
why they're angry then get angry then force change
yeah my gosh thank goodness you're doing your
bit man you're doing your bit well i've got enough
enough vinegar to share around so Well, I want
to hit on one more spot before we then transition
out of Band of Brothers and talk about, you know,
life after Band of Brothers, because that in
itself is a topic. Chris Bourgeois, excuse me,
is the grandson of Doc Rowe. So talk to me about
your relationship with him. I know that, you
know, he's just, I think, again, just come back
from Europe for another D -Day kind of memorial.
So I'd love to just kind of hear about post 9
-11, post Band of Brothers and, you know, that
kind of relationship. Well, you know, I mean,
that's something that came out of, you know,
it was an after event, really, I suppose. You
know, Chris and I, you know, we're pretty close,
you know, we're pretty tight. And so the byproduct
of doing that show and, you know, I didn't, I
always wondered what it would be like to sort
of have known him before. But then I do remember
that he said that, you know, it wasn't like Eugene
talked about the war really. He wasn't one of
those that did. So it wouldn't, you know, I was
thinking, well, maybe you could have, you know,
imparted some wisdom about, I don't know, whatever
it is. And, and, but I do remember Chris saying
he didn't really, in fact, when we went to the
Bastogne together, we went to the 75th anniversary
and we were doing something for the U S embassy
there. And, and it was some kind of, it was just
a little short piece. We did an interview and,
It was a really touching moment, really. You
know, Chris was saying about how the show or
that, you know, he named me being the actor that
I gave him his grandfather, you know, because
he didn't know what he did in the war. He just
didn't know. He didn't have the full compliment
of facts, you know, of what a medic did, you
know. And so that was a... you know that was
that that that choked me up I remember that it
was a it was quite a moment but you know Chris
is such an influential guy in terms of he's such
a nice guy too and you know warm he's a stand
-up Dallas police officer now but he's um you
know he he and I have you know whenever we whenever
we get together it's the easiest thing in the
world you know and our personalities are just
easy going you know and uh he's just uh he's
really so into the history. And if you talk about
somebody at the forefront of preserving the memory,
the guy's just, he's like a Dick Winters. I mean,
he's like a Carwood Lipton. I mean, he's a, he's,
he's out there and did a fantastic thing with
the, for the, for the kids. He managed to get
a, a really talented illustrator, I think from
the Netherlands. I think that's right. He, has
kind of pinned a, you know, an easy company story,
I suppose, for the sort of school age kids, lovely
book. And that's kind of, you can find that in
most of the museums that I've seen now in Europe,
you know, he's kind of expanded globally with
this thing as a, as another way in, you know,
and he's very active in terms of like the family
reunions, you know, he's really stepped up and
over the years and been part of that. And. So,
you know, he loves he loves all that stuff. He
has a genuine, genuine love and interest. You
know, historically with all of it and and of
course, you know, in order for people to not
forget, you know, he's doing his bit, he's doing
more than that. And so, you know, that's been
an amazing thing to come out of doing the show.
And I met, you know. There's Marlene, there's
Maxine, and there's Eugene Rowe Jr. and his wife,
Betty. And, you know, I met them during the Paris.
We had a Normandy premiere, I remember. It was
HBO built like a cinema or something on the beach
like they can, obviously. And we had a bus thing
going down. And I think somebody, we were still
calling each other by character names at that
point. And somebody called out Doc. And I turned
and I saw this. this lady you know and she's
just looking at looking at me a certain way and
I just I just knew she's suddenly looking at
me like I'm the guy that's playing her dad but
I looked at her knowing that that was one of
the daughters or a daughter you know and so Maxine
and I we just you know, embraced and best hug
I've had to this day. I think it was just a,
it was just an amazing moment. And, you know,
I've been to, I've been up to the, you know,
a lot of them live in Baton Rouge now. And so
I've been up there and shared king cake and,
you know, we just sort of, it's just, it's just
been an amazing thing. You don't know how things
are going to be received. You don't know whether
people are going to be, you know, hospitable
and embracing of it all. But I think. It's gone
beyond what I could have imagined. And I met
so many when I was in France, the family and
the extended family. And each of them were just
a gem. They're all gems. Louisiana crowd, just
a great crowd. And Chris is right up there. He's
just right up there. And I would have been. I
mean, work was a thing, so I couldn't go to that.
that was in Normandy recently, but that was part,
if I could, I would have gone to see him. But
hopefully I'm going to see him in New Orleans
later on this summer. So we're going to, you
know, we'll catch up then. But that's what I
mean, you know, 20 years and we're still getting
up to mischief, still getting in trouble. Brilliant.
So good to hear. People listening, it's Doc Rowe
Publishing on Instagram is Chris's handle. So
I think you can find the links to the books.
Yeah, very good. All right. Well, then transitioning
out then. So you do this incredible piece of
television. Firstly, talk to me about the delay
and when it was really becoming visible. And
then I'd love to hear about auditioning afterwards
and horsemanship. remind me to remind me to mention
about a backflip as well okay I'll put that on
my notes keep that in your head keep that in
your head it's not not directly about me but
keep like it's linked to horses that horsey thing
so anyway so yeah I don't think the show I mean
you know obviously it was I can never get this
quite right I've heard different people talk
about it at different times and I can't remember
whether the first episode aired Before 9 -11
or just after or episode two, I can't quite remember.
But what I do know is that 9 -11, on its run
at least, you know, 9 -11 was in and around the
time. And I was in Colorado. I got stuck in Colorado
during that period. But my take from all of that,
and quite rightly, because, I mean, I was just
glued to the TV and it was all about 24 -7 what
was going on in the world, you know. So I feel
like it kind of slipped the radar a little bit,
slipped the net. But then it started to repeat
a little bit. But even then, you know, so, you
know, we went through all that stuff. But I still
feel like it really didn't gain traction. I mean,
it only played in the UK, I think, once on the
BBC, you know. So it didn't repeat and it hasn't,
you know. Obviously, we have this sort of way
to stream it now. And I think... I can name networks
here, can't I, James? Yeah, go for it. Like Sky,
I think, or something. You can stream it, you
can download it now sort of thing. But back then,
it was nothing like that. But I believe in the
States, my family over there would say, well,
it's a repeat on History or Spike TV or something
like that. And they got into a habit of around
D -Day sort of repeating and having marathons
and that kind of thing. But I really, truly,
I think until, as I say, the last 10 years, as
opposed to the first 10, I think the last 10
years has really kind of, you know, gained the
momentum and sort of cemented itself, I suppose,
if you want, in terms of like a classic series
to see. You know, it's as far as I can tell,
you know. You know, and... you know that's great
i mean i you know early on within those first
10 years i do remember you know receiving sort
of stuff you know and fan mail and all the people
that were around the world put together lovely
things and all that sort of stuff that were you
know into the sort of history already so they
were actively seeking and couldn't wait for something
like that to come out you know um but then there
were other people that were not necessarily like
war genre you know, fans necessarily, not looking
for it in particular, but in particularly, but
they would come across it, they would stumble
upon it. Or someone would say, word of mouth,
you know, check this out. Well, it's war. Yeah,
but no, it's a pretty good series. The stories,
you know, it's like 10 movies, you know, and
so then that would happen and you'd get that.
And even now, you know, even now, sort of through
social media channels, you know, people will
say, I have never seen this before. Somebody
mentioned it. And I'm not talking about a kid.
Older people are coming up and saying, I've never
seen this before. I've heard about it maybe.
Watched it. My gosh. And all of those lovely
things that people can say. But it's kind of
ongoing. But I do feel like, I mean, somebody
told me, one of the historian friends of mine,
I've got a few now, that they talk about reenacting
groups that have... There were always kind of
reenacting groups in and around it. But that
show in particular that kind of like spawn these
paratrooper, you know, Screaming Eagle outfits,
you know. So when you go and you do these like
D -Day events now, I mean, it's incredible. The
scenes are incredible. And there are just so
many dressed up, so many reenacting groups. But
it actually goes beyond uniform. You know, there
are civilians now. places like Carentan or whatever,
that dress up in those period outfits. Maybe
some of the, it's a bit Truman show this, but
you know, you have like hidden speaker systems
all over the town where they're just blasting
out, you know, Edith Piaf or something like that.
You know, it's just kind of like, there's some
kind of stuff going on there that you're just,
you're all, you're just thrown back. It's like
a time capsule, you know, amazing stuff. But
yeah, I think it's kind of been responsible for
this big reenacting. rebirth that has just gone
from strength to strength. And it's just been
humbling to see and it's a real pleasure to see
that it's still being able to. And the other
thing about it as well is that these sorts of
things territorially play out at different points.
So I think initially within those first five
years, let's say. You know, there were countries
and territories that were not getting it. They
hadn't seen it yet, you know, and it would take
a few years before they even got their first
shot at it. So, you know what I mean? So it took
a little while for things to kind of get up to
speed. And then, you know, once we get into the
way that the TV works now, you know, it's pretty
accessible and easier to find. But then obviously,
you know, when those... blu -rays were coming
out the dvds things or then the blu -rays came
out you know people were seeing it in all sorts
of different ways and and um yeah it's still
bizarre to me to be i feel proud you know to
be it's you can be in a shit ton of stuff you
know a shit ton nobody's nobody really sees it
even if they see it this doesn't you know once
it's done it's done this doesn't seem to be done
You know, it's always there. And people keep,
I don't go out looking for it either. People
feel like, you know, keep talking about it or
keep, you know, James came to me. I didn't go
to James. It's like, you know, I'm not looking
to kind of put myself out there and go, hey,
remember me like a, you know, a one hit wonder
musician talking about a record, you know, X
amount of years ago. But it's not that. It's
just the impact of the show. And people want
to, and because of those, But fundamentally,
because of what it is, which is, you know, something
worth, as we've talked about before, it goes,
it's bigger than a job. It's bigger. It's a,
it is that gateway. It is something about, you
know, honouring this group of people that were
kind of a cog in a big machine, but an important
cog and trying to sort of tell their story, you
know, and their piece of history. You know, that's,
that's an important thing to keep out there.
You know, it's not about an actor wanting to
remain relevant. You know, it's that's that's
cheap. And it's it's it's it's just not it's
just not that, you know, you you have to be about
the perseverance of of what we did in terms of
like trying to kind of educate, you know, future
generations. And and I really like whenever I
talk to the young, you know, young kids and stuff
like that, you know, it's always about, you know.
go go try and read up now you know properly about
certain things because you know there is that
obviously there's that thing that happens where
artistic license comes into play and there is
a natural element of entertainment that you're
constantly shifting there's a gap that exists
between historical accuracy 100 which really
doesn't really doesn't happen really and that
sort of entertainment factor you know in terms
of like What we got and the validate, even the
vets understood that to a certain degree, you
know, with certain things and certain poetic
license maneuvers, you know. But as good as you
could to make that gap as small as you could,
you know, as fine as you could. That was our
aim. And I think more often than not, you know,
we were getting somewhere. But, you know, you
talk to any historian and. and I have now, you
know, to get my own sort of understanding about
it. Well, they go, well, that age station was
not there. It was never there. It was over here.
It was just around the corner. It wasn't a church.
It was this place, you know. And you go, ah,
okay. Well, it did exist then. She would have
been there. Yeah, but she wouldn't have met him,
but he wouldn't have met her. Okay, well, that
didn't happen. They may have done, but this other
medic found this nurse or whatever it is. And,
you know, so you put those dots together. So
there are things that you can understand. that
happened within the screenwriting and what they
wanted to tell. I mean, Band of Brothers wasn't
only telling its own story about Easy Company.
It was trying to infuse other elements of that
period of history and other stories like Rene
Lemaire, that Belgian nurse who was in Bastogne
actively. I've been to where she, I've been to
her family home. I've been to where her aid station
actually was, which wasn't far from her home.
You know, I've seen where she would have operated
with Augusta Chewy, who Augusta went on, the
Congolese nurse went on to live into her nineties.
You know, I've seen that. I've seen where they
operated, but were they truly part of the Easy
Company experience? Probably not, you know, but
they were there. They were in and around it.
Here's a medic story to tell. Let's try and tell
that her story. In fact. And by the very nature
of band of brothers coming into effect and being
out there, it's enabled those people, the people
of Bastogne, especially to have, and Chris and
I went out there, we unveiled a memorial to best,
uh, to Renee and Augusta. It just wouldn't have
happened without the show being part of that.
Um, but part of that, uh, part of the, uh, what
do I want to say? Part of the part, part of the
story really just for the voice. part of the
voice part of the the groundwork enabling them
they knew who they were but it's just now it
gave them this real moment and an official in
an official capacity it gave them a moment to
celebrate their native angels you know and then
so it was you know there's some good some good
stuff and so i've lost my foxhole again james
we're good we're good so after the band of brothers
like you said it took it took quite a while to
to take hold i mean i've watched it hands down
more than i've watched any other show or film
ever you know as far as number of times i've
watched i think it's i think of either five or
six times now which is you know unheard of for
anything else um So, you know, we're we've been
chatting for almost two and a half hours, but
I don't want to let you go without hearing the
horse stories. I think we chatted prior. It was
a kind of afterthought at the end of our previous
conversation. So I want to make sure that we
get it on tape. So talk to me about, you know,
that audition story. And then as you prompted
me, the backflip and where that carries in. We've
we've all I mean, we've you know, we're in danger
of particular podcast interview going on for
the entire. length of the band of brothers series
but um i'll try and be as quick as i can on this
um so i i don't want to i don't want to name
names too much in this but i went to i went had
a so i went out for another uh job that was um
it was a a period piece revolutionary war and
uh um and it was all kind of um I've got to be
careful where it's not like I'm going to be subpoenaed
or anything, is it? But I'm so I'm so anyway,
I get this thing and it's it was for a particular
part, particular captain. And like these things,
when you go into an audition room, you know,
it's like there are you know, you put down what
skills you've got, whether you can play guitar,
play a bit of guitar, you know, so you put down
that and you know, can you ride a horse? You
know, so. And, you know, even if you're not that
great at any of these things, you kind of, when
you're asked about that, especially if you, like
I was saying earlier, you get that Jedi sense
of feeling like you're getting somewhere and
that they like you. So you feel like, you know,
I'm not going to say I can't do any of these
things, not now. So in this particular thing,
in this particular role, they're asking if I
can ride a horse. And I said, yeah, of course,
you know. It'd been about 10 years since I'd
actually got on one, probably longer than that,
and had a mild trot, right? That's about it.
That's it. But with confidence, you know, I'm
saying, yeah, no, no, no, that's no problem.
You know, so thinking nothing of it. I don't
think I was given a proper script at that point.
They were just, again, just a few sides, a few
pages of dialogue. But again, it was one of those
things I was coming back and that would be a
question. And that was the unusual thing that
the second time I went back, they asked again.
And I just thought, well, maybe they forgot from
last time. And then the third time, I think it
was one of those where I'm like, something's
up here. What do they want me to do? And the
weird thing about it is that they said, if you
could grade yourself on a horse, what would it
be? How would you grade yourself on a horse?
Out of 10. And I said, wow. And then my mind's
spinning. I'm starting to panic internally, but
at the same time, game face. So I said, well,
I'm about a, I'm about seven, I guess. But if,
you know, if you've got the, if the training's
there, if you've got training, you know, and
this was going to be shot in Romania, maybe an
eight, which was really ridiculous, you know,
light years ahead of what I actually am. So we,
oh, that's fabulous. This is great. This is going
to work. I go away and get this role. Pretty
good role, you know. My thinking is I had about
three weeks or so to get horse riding lessons.
So I went to a local stable, stables, lovely
lady called Sharon with an even sweeter horse
called Katie. And so there I was on Katie learning
the basics. Fairly straightforward. I thought,
this is pretty neat. I'm born for this. So we
did a few of those. And then I got the call from
the history channel. We're doing, it was a history
channel. It was a New York offices, a call up
or something. And they said, okay, you, we want
you to, they want to test. Why don't you, when
you're on film testing, the camera testing you
on the horse. And immediately again, I'm like,
oh my God, what is this? What do they want me
to do? You know? And I'm, so then I'm sort of
like, I got, got one of the scripts, I think.
And there was something within the script that
was about taking a hit, taking a musket shot.
And then my character was sort of flipped on
the side or under the horse, you know. And I'm
like, but again, I'm rationalizing that thinking,
well, I'm not going to be doing that. They're
not going to, you know, ensure that's a stunt.
That's you, James. James comes in, takes over
that stunt. And then we wrap for the day, you
know. So that's in my head all of a sudden. I'm
going, oh, my God. So then I'm on to the agent.
I'm saying, listen, they want to test me on this
thing. You know about my horse riding ability
or lack of it. You've got to give me a few days
before. I'm having lessons. Just buy me a few
days, you know. In fact, I think I said a week,
but he got a few days. That was it. And then
all of a sudden. I'm on this, I'm in this car.
I'm being ridden up to, uh, driven up to, uh,
this, I called it the devil's horse ranch, which
was never a good sign. If, if there was any sign,
uh, that was going to be good. But I, I, I just
remember a lot of the stunt horses because they
had loads and they, a lot of them have been shipped
out to Romania, but I was left with the sort
of the big chief of it all, you know? And, uh,
I guess I could, well, he, He was a sweet guy,
French guy, sat in the kitchen. We were breaking
bread. We were sharing coffee. We were laughing.
We were joking. He was a funny guy. And he's
telling me all about his horse life. And then
he had a partner who was kind of going to do
the filming. So after all that was done, I thought
I was kind of relaxed at this point. I was thinking
this is going to be good. He's going to be on
my side. There's no problem here. We'll get through
this and it's done. So we go into this. I do
remember going past the horses that were left
that were not going to go out. I do remember,
again, this was another thing that was sort of
like a foreshadowing event. They were flinching
slightly as he and he was just going past sort
of flinching. And I was like, OK, they know who
the boss is. And and I think I was starting to
sort of. I was starting to get a little bit nervous
then, and I remember seeing the horse that he
was going to put me on. It was an indoor arena
that he went in, that he built. It was huge,
or it seemed like that. And this horse, so I
went from this lovely horse called Katie to this
huge nightmare of a horse called Jeffrey. Again,
Jeffrey doesn't really sell it, does it? But
it was huge, and he knew for damn sure I wasn't
a 7 out of 10, you know. or even an eight with
training of course but uh so i got on this thing
i tried to get jeff into gear jeff didn't want
to know uh the chief got on his horse and he
was kind of riding off and uh i was saying come
on jeff come on man you know just start just
start you know using my training that i had um
i don't think jeff i don't think jeff cut I didn't
have any control. It was all about Jeff, but
he cut me some slack. He started to move. And
then we sort of left or right, we're going around.
And then the first time I've ever done this in
my life, in fact, I probably didn't even know
what the word meant. We went out for a hack,
you know, a mild hack. We were just going to
go outside of the arena and go to this outer
field. And this outer field was going to be the
place we were going to do the filming. And so
there I was, you know, Jeff. Every now and then
Jeff would stall. look at me with disdain and
then start up again. But I remember the gap between
me and the chief, you know, it was getting wider
and wider. And I was like, Geoffrey, you've got
to split the difference, man. And then I remember
the chief looking back at me at one point, he
was like, oh, you're not a rider. You're not
a rider. You know, he knew, I think they all
knew that I was not a rider. And this was going
to be, you know, bordering on, you know, sort
of a serious injury. I was thinking, oh, my God,
what am I getting into? Do I call this? Do I
come clean? Or do I go for it and just hope for
the best? I mean, Jeff knows the routes. He knows
what he's doing. You know, some people, you know,
dog walkers, if the dog's done, if it's an old
dog, it knows the route. You don't need to take
the dog for a walk. And that's how I felt like,
well, you do need to take it, but, you know,
he knows where it's going, so don't worry about
it. I felt like Jeff was the same thing. Jeff
knows what he's doing here. Maybe he'll just
take it over and make me look good. And so we
get to this point where we get this out of field
and then the chief's partner comes up with the
camera. And I jokingly say something about, you
know, make sure you make me look good. You know,
choice cuts. Let's do the choice cuts because
she was going to edit and all this stuff. Oh,
yeah. Don't worry. We'll do all that. So I have
this helmet thing on, which was a size too big.
It seemed it was sort of starting to slip. But
the other thing which I forgot to say is that
the chief gave me this crop. riding crop that
no way on earth was I going to use it on this
Jeff, you know. But, you know, I held it. And
so we're on this field and I'm sort of trotting
around. Sun was out. It was a beautiful day,
actually. And the chief starts to kind of do
his thing. I'm not doing anything other than
just Jeff doing his bit. camera starts to roll.
So my game phase, I'm supposed to be this captain
for goodness sake, you know, let's just this,
this game phase. And then, so I'm sort of getting
into it and then I'm thinking, all right, let's
try and get it. Let's try and get Jeff into a
canter, which is always the trickiest thing anyway,
isn't it? We try to rhythmically go with that.
And, uh, it's not really happening that much.
And then out of nowhere, the chief cracks, Jeff's
rawhide. And Jeff, like it's almost like warp
speed. It felt like the Millennium Falcon doing
hyperdrive or something. I just went off. I just,
and I've never, I've never galloped in my life.
I never got to that point. I didn't have enough
lessons with Katie. You know, it was just like,
I went off and I just held on for dear life.
I mean, the weird thing about it is that I, there
was no sort of, you know, it was, we were gliding.
I didn't feel like, You know, again, it comes
back to Jeff. He knew where he was going. He
knew what he was doing. It was all about Jeff.
I had no control. I was Captain Useless. But
the way he was going and the way I was trying
to do the sort of game face, you know, initially
I was like, oh my God, oh my God. Then getting
the game face, but I wasn't going to let go of
those reins. And what was happening was the helmet
was starting to slide over my eyes. So I couldn't
see, I couldn't see where I was going after time.
And then I was going around. I found myself turning.
I tried to do a turn or something like that.
The camera's going on. He's going, this is great.
This is great. Whatever. And we're riding back
and forth. This went on. It felt like an age.
I don't know. I don't know how long it went on
for, but we just, we were going, it was just
going on forever. It seemed like, and I don't
even know how I managed to stop Jeff, you know,
let alone turn him. But something happened where
I survived. I got off. I do remember the driver
chuckling at me when I was approached him getting
back into the car. And I thought, you know something,
I don't. And then getting back home. And I don't
even think because my way to get home back to
the village, you know, was quite a convoluted
thing. somehow they'd seen everything. So by
the time I got back to the sort of this station
that I was at in the village, I was walking to
my car. I had a call come in. And it was like,
they've seen it. They saw the stuff. And I went,
you're kidding me. They've seen it already. He
said, no, no, no. They just sent it straight
through. No problem. You know, good job. They
said one thing. uh one thing that stood out i
said yeah he said they thought you looked a bit
petrified and i was like ah you know yeah yeah
that was i don't know you know um that's probably
right that's probably right he said yeah but
you know don't worry was i mean they seem they
seem they seem happy enough about it so um that
was the end of the the conversation you know
the report that i was petrified a good job And
so I don't quite know how that relates sort of,
you know, tally it up. In fact, it didn't really
tally up because within, I don't know, it was
another call came through just to say that I
was fired. So it was one of those where I felt
like, yeah, this is great. This is great. And
I do remember sort of drowning my sorrows and
thinking, oh, no, I went to some sort of country
pub somewhere and thinking what a ridiculous
thing, because of the process of going through
all of those auditions and all that sort of stuff,
you know. but thinking, oh, why did I say I was
seven out of 10 and then an eight out of 10 or
whatever it was, you know, but it's like, you've
got to try it, man. You just got to go for it.
But fortunately I, because I put so much on tape,
not horse riding aside, just acting wise, uh,
you know, they, they, they, they wanted me in
the show. So they, there was another captain
and they, they said, we want you to be this captain.
He's in a wheelchair. So it'd be perfect. You
know, the good news they did say is that he doesn't
ride, you know? So, After all that, you know,
I was the I was the captain on foot. But even
and I was obviously pleased to be in it because
I got into the show, you know, and it was a really
great thing to be a part of. But at the same
time, I was thinking I had enough horse riding
behind me to at least come in, get off and go
into a tavern or come out of that tavern drunkenly,
get on it. And because I even had enough confidence
to sort of act in a drunken way as long as I
was only. trotting off you know or something
just give me something with the horse just to
kind of as a as a marker you know that i i did
something did some prep but it never it wasn't
to be you know um so you know but i mentioned
the uh the that backflip thing is only because
this wasn't me but it happens to be my like favorite
because there's always an horrendous audition
story everybody every actor will tell you that
i mean if if you get any other actors you know
down the line on this you know just get them
to push push one out because it's They're everywhere.
We're riddled with them. But my friend, it was
some sort of commercial. In fact, he's in the
show. His name's Bart Ruspily. He plays Ed Tipper
in Banner Brothers. And there's a very good scene
with Tipper when he gets a hit explosion and
Liebgott's cradling him and his legs all damaged
and all this sort of stuff. It was well done.
He had to go for an audition for something and
they were asking him about, he was fairly sporty,
asking him about his flexibility and mobility
and his fitness levels. He's saying, oh, good,
all good. But I don't think he realised that
it was a kind of, it needed a sort of an acrobatic
flexibility. And so, again, using that same feeling
like you're getting somewhere. And I'm not going
to say I can't do something at this point. I'm
going to say, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because, you
know, with the idea that you might be able to
get a bit of training in or do something. And
so he said yes, you know, to a backflip. And
then a bit like me, it was like, right, well,
let's test the backflip in the room. So, you
know. it comes back to that sort of thing you
know actors courage or are they are we just a
bunch of muppets because you just go with it
and you don't even think about it you know so
there was literally potentially a life on the
line and so he composed himself to do a backflip
and launched launched it launched one landed
because he's not the most coordinated of guys
and i think you get that so He'd landed squarely
on his shoulder blade. So I didn't even get,
thank goodness he didn't go higher. And then
there's the next thing, but I mean, they asked
for a backflip and a guaranteed winding. So he's
just there on the floor, winded and, you know,
casting people, you know, the inspiration commercials
and stuff like that. They can be just, you know,
they're just writing that down on a bit of paper.
He's sucking in air for all his worth. They're
just going like, no, he's not any good. The next.
And so, you know, That's the world we're in.
And again, you kind of go home, you dust yourself
off, you look at yourself in the mirror and go,
yeah, okay, tomorrow's another day. Shine on.
When you were talking about the horse being named
Jeff, I kept flashing to that show, What We Do
in the Shadows. Have you seen that one? The vampire
one? There's the Gregor, I think it is, the romantic.
vampire from the past and he keeps manifesting
and he's modern day and his name is jeff jeff
sounds like male ejaculation jeff but yeah it's
a little misleading for a terrifying giant horse
to call him jeff so yeah shame on them but luckily
jeff you know as i say was a vet of the field
you know in the field so i felt literally in
the field and i think that the if it was you
know He knew and he was just getting me through
a different kind of horse. I might've been in
trouble there, but you know, I didn't, that's
the beauty of it. You know, he just got me through
it somehow. And like I say, I had no control
at all, but you know, but it was, you know, at
least I got on it. It was a fun shoot. And you
know, the irony of it all as well, James, is
that the guy that they brought in to do this
role. Again, I'm not going to name names, but
the guy that they brought in to do this role,
and he did a great job in terms of acting, and
he was a rider, but ultimately they didn't let
him do it. Oh, really? Yeah, it was too much
of a stunt. It was too dangerous to do, and ultimately
the stunt guys kind of did it. So that was the
irony there, and the extra little kick. I got
to do it. I got to work with some really great
people. And actually, although it wasn't as juicy
a role, I think it was a good one, the right
one for me. And I had some nice scenes to play.
So I was pleased about it. I was happy. But,
you know, another soldier, obviously. That was
the other thing. Tight casting going on. That's
a little bit of a theme. Yes. Which is kind of
ridiculous. Or my girls think it's ridiculous.
My girls will go, really? Yeah. Yeah, soldier
again. I think it's just the way you cut your
hair, daddy. I think, yeah, probably. Probably
that. Well, Shane, it has been an amazing conversation.
I wish we could do, you know, much, much longer.
We'll definitely have to do a part two down the
road at some point. But what an amazing, you
know, spectrum of places we've been from the
mental health of real world vets today that you're
working with from the actors and the real easy
company members of the show. And then finishing
with some awesome audition stories. So I want
to thank you so much for being so generous with
your time and coming on the Behind the Shield
podcast today. Well, thank you, James. I mean,
it was a long epic and I apologise. And obviously
it was a bit of a rusty start, needed to kind
of get that engine and the cogs turning. But,
you know, what a host. And keep up the spectacular
work you're doing. You know, it's amazing. And
all I can say to that is, you know, just keep
on shining.