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And if you want to learn more about 5 00:03:50.990 --> 00:03:53.490 .11, their mission, their products, then listen 00:03:53.490 --> 00:03:56.610 to episode 338 of the Behind the Shield podcast 00:03:56.610 --> 00:04:00.689 with the CEO and founder, Francisco Morales. 00:04:01.889 --> 00:04:03.889 Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast. As 00:04:03.889 --> 00:04:05.669 always, my name is James Gearing, and this week 00:04:05.669 --> 00:04:07.810 it is my absolute honor to welcome on the show, 00:04:07.990 --> 00:04:11.419 Shane Taylor. Now, for those of you that have 00:04:11.419 --> 00:04:14.060 seen the show Band of Brothers, Shane portrayed 00:04:14.060 --> 00:04:17.860 Doc Rowe, the army medic in Easy Company. So 00:04:17.860 --> 00:04:20.480 we discuss a host of topics from his journey 00:04:20.480 --> 00:04:23.660 into acting, the audition process for Band of 00:04:23.660 --> 00:04:26.300 Brothers, the incredible boot camp they went 00:04:26.300 --> 00:04:29.759 through with Captain Dale Dye, the powerful Bastogne 00:04:29.759 --> 00:04:33.339 episode, life after Band of Brothers, audition 00:04:33.339 --> 00:04:36.459 stories, and so much more. Before we get to this 00:04:36.459 --> 00:04:38.759 incredible conversation, as I say every week, 00:04:39.050 --> 00:04:40.889 please just take a moment, go to whichever app 00:04:40.889 --> 00:04:43.269 you listen to this on, subscribe to the show, 00:04:43.470 --> 00:04:46.910 leave feedback, and leave a rating. Every single 00:04:46.910 --> 00:04:50.029 five -star rating truly does elevate this podcast, 00:04:50.290 --> 00:04:52.750 therefore making it easier for others to find. 00:04:52.889 --> 00:04:56.649 And this is a free library for you, planet Earth. 00:04:56.829 --> 00:04:59.769 So all I ask in return is that you help share 00:04:59.769 --> 00:05:02.790 these incredible men and women's stories so I 00:05:02.790 --> 00:05:05.329 can get them to every single person who needs 00:05:05.329 --> 00:05:08.519 to hear them. So with that being said... I introduce 00:05:08.519 --> 00:05:32.449 to you Shane Taylor. Enjoy. Well, Shane, I wanted 00:05:32.449 --> 00:05:35.069 to start by saying thank you so much for carving 00:05:35.069 --> 00:05:37.209 out some time and coming on the Behind the Shield 00:05:37.209 --> 00:05:40.889 podcast today. Thanks, James. It's an absolute 00:05:40.889 --> 00:05:45.490 treat. You know, I've been listening to the podcast 00:05:45.490 --> 00:05:49.110 and, you know, I think you're doing an incredible 00:05:49.110 --> 00:05:53.209 job, an amazing job. I love the sort of array 00:05:53.209 --> 00:05:58.230 of guests that you get on. And, you know, I feel... 00:05:59.290 --> 00:06:02.610 the humbled to be part of it so um yeah thank 00:06:02.610 --> 00:06:04.810 you thank you for having me here well i can tell 00:06:04.810 --> 00:06:08.189 you that when i put the post out that we were 00:06:08.189 --> 00:06:12.110 going to do this i had such a huge huge response 00:06:12.110 --> 00:06:14.730 and i would say if i collated the data when i 00:06:14.730 --> 00:06:17.069 asked people which i'll ask you at the end is 00:06:17.069 --> 00:06:20.050 there a tv show film you know you recommend band 00:06:20.050 --> 00:06:22.879 of brothers is comes up over and over and over 00:06:22.879 --> 00:06:24.560 again. Now, there's a personal connection with 00:06:24.560 --> 00:06:27.360 Dale Dye for me as well and my attempt to get 00:06:27.360 --> 00:06:30.160 on that show. But, you know, over and above that, 00:06:30.360 --> 00:06:33.500 not only was it one of the most beautifully shot 00:06:33.500 --> 00:06:37.019 TV series ever, but then you add the layer of 00:06:37.019 --> 00:06:39.100 the real men of Easy Company in there as well. 00:06:39.980 --> 00:06:42.759 It moved so many people. I'm talking about not 00:06:42.759 --> 00:06:44.920 only civilians, but military members from all 00:06:44.920 --> 00:06:47.420 over the world made comments about this. So I 00:06:47.420 --> 00:06:49.560 am so excited to have this conversation today. 00:06:50.920 --> 00:06:53.740 Well, now you've bigged it up. Now this is going 00:06:53.740 --> 00:06:59.000 to fall flat. You know, that is the thing that 00:06:59.000 --> 00:07:02.560 is, you know, staggering to me. I feel like it's, 00:07:02.560 --> 00:07:05.439 I mean, it makes sense on one level. I mean, 00:07:05.459 --> 00:07:08.100 take away whether we did, you know, a good enough 00:07:08.100 --> 00:07:11.759 job or not depicting it. But I feel like, you 00:07:11.759 --> 00:07:15.120 know, the interest makes sense. You know, it's 00:07:15.120 --> 00:07:17.000 a period of our history, collective history. 00:07:18.490 --> 00:07:20.490 You know, we as humans, you know, we have a connection 00:07:20.490 --> 00:07:25.750 to that. But the scale of the response, you know, 00:07:25.750 --> 00:07:29.610 from, I don't know, just, you know, people in 00:07:29.610 --> 00:07:31.449 the services, especially, you know, I've been 00:07:31.449 --> 00:07:34.750 obviously that has an extra resonance, you know, 00:07:34.769 --> 00:07:37.089 so if they respond and I've had letters, you 00:07:37.089 --> 00:07:41.750 know, from various service people across the 00:07:41.750 --> 00:07:45.480 board, you know, that that's a real. That's a 00:07:45.480 --> 00:07:47.540 real thing to cherish. But I've also had, you 00:07:47.540 --> 00:07:52.100 know, university lecturers talk to me about stuff, 00:07:52.180 --> 00:07:54.120 you know, people in the mental health field, 00:07:54.480 --> 00:07:59.439 paramedics, contemporary paramedics, and obviously 00:07:59.439 --> 00:08:03.540 just fans of the show that are into that period 00:08:03.540 --> 00:08:08.360 of history. You know, it's been absolutely mind 00:08:08.360 --> 00:08:11.379 -blowing. And when I've been lucky enough to 00:08:11.379 --> 00:08:14.660 attend a few things through sort of non -profit, 00:08:15.069 --> 00:08:19.610 organizations and and or you know a more sort 00:08:19.610 --> 00:08:23.149 of um hollywood -esque sort of signing things 00:08:23.149 --> 00:08:27.569 i suppose um you know i've just it's just been 00:08:27.569 --> 00:08:31.649 so sort of so humbling to to talk to people about 00:08:31.649 --> 00:08:36.429 their reactions to to the to the series and what 00:08:36.429 --> 00:08:42.210 it meant to them um you know this the the the 00:08:42.210 --> 00:08:46.929 sort of the level of affection is, is staggering. 00:08:47.049 --> 00:08:50.190 And, and, and also it fills in some of the gaps 00:08:50.190 --> 00:08:53.250 in family history for them as well. You know, 00:08:53.269 --> 00:08:56.970 certainly people that may, may not have spoken 00:08:56.970 --> 00:09:00.129 about the war, you know, family members, it kind 00:09:00.129 --> 00:09:03.970 of gave them a little insight into what, you 00:09:03.970 --> 00:09:06.049 know, grandparents may have gone through or something 00:09:06.049 --> 00:09:08.990 or father or something, you know, or a mother. 00:09:09.129 --> 00:09:14.990 And, you know, so I, So, yeah, the scale I will 00:09:14.990 --> 00:09:18.590 probably still be processing if I reach old age, 00:09:18.690 --> 00:09:20.590 James, you know, I'll still be processing this 00:09:20.590 --> 00:09:23.690 thing really in terms of its seismic impact, 00:09:23.909 --> 00:09:26.730 you know. So I still, even though people will 00:09:26.730 --> 00:09:32.490 say that or read about it, perhaps, I'm still 00:09:32.490 --> 00:09:37.409 amazed and, you know, and surprised just with 00:09:37.409 --> 00:09:40.210 how it's touched people. I've waffled again, 00:09:40.309 --> 00:09:43.789 James. You're not waffling at all. But I think 00:09:43.789 --> 00:09:46.570 the power of television and cinema for this particular 00:09:46.570 --> 00:09:49.049 topic especially, I took my little boy to go 00:09:49.049 --> 00:09:51.590 and see They Shall Not Grow Old where Peter Jackson 00:09:51.590 --> 00:09:55.070 colorized the World War I footage. And then the 00:09:55.070 --> 00:09:57.389 actors added voices to it and it was incredible. 00:09:57.669 --> 00:10:00.070 He's a huge fan of Hacksaw Ridge. He's watched 00:10:00.070 --> 00:10:03.129 Band of Brothers, I think, at least twice with 00:10:03.129 --> 00:10:07.889 me now, the whole thing. But it's such an important 00:10:07.889 --> 00:10:12.529 kind of, outlet for the next generation to learn 00:10:12.529 --> 00:10:14.850 about what their you know it's technically great 00:10:14.850 --> 00:10:17.950 grandparents did and for us our age group you 00:10:17.950 --> 00:10:20.250 know that was our grandparents but sadly most 00:10:20.250 --> 00:10:23.029 of them are you know are passing away now and 00:10:23.029 --> 00:10:24.570 so a lot of those stories are dying with them 00:10:24.570 --> 00:10:27.669 and it's really sad i wish i'd got into podcasting 00:10:27.669 --> 00:10:30.169 10 years prior and could have got all of easy 00:10:30.169 --> 00:10:32.990 company on here and all these other amazing amazing 00:10:32.990 --> 00:10:36.610 men and women but um yeah i mean the If we cannot 00:10:36.610 --> 00:10:39.169 have the real people, as luckily you were able 00:10:39.169 --> 00:10:40.970 to do in Band of Brothers, then the next best 00:10:40.970 --> 00:10:45.149 thing is for us to go to the most trusted portrayals 00:10:45.149 --> 00:10:47.490 of some of those conflicts and some of those 00:10:47.490 --> 00:10:50.690 courageous men and women and learn through that 00:10:50.690 --> 00:10:54.509 medium instead. Yes, it's a 21st century way 00:10:54.509 --> 00:10:58.370 in, isn't it? It's a good porthole to do it. 00:10:58.509 --> 00:11:01.409 And I think that's what I've realized, certainly 00:11:01.409 --> 00:11:05.350 in the last maybe 10 years, I think. where i 00:11:05.350 --> 00:11:07.649 really feel like the show has picked up you know 00:11:07.649 --> 00:11:11.289 more so than the first uh 10 and you and and 00:11:11.289 --> 00:11:15.889 you know i've i've met a bunch of um well kids 00:11:15.889 --> 00:11:17.610 really they wouldn't have been alive when it 00:11:17.610 --> 00:11:20.029 first aired you know that have just got in through 00:11:20.029 --> 00:11:23.149 that and and and then you know picked up the 00:11:23.149 --> 00:11:26.889 books and you know or have explored more online 00:11:26.889 --> 00:11:31.610 and and got some of the you know a broader sense 00:11:31.610 --> 00:11:36.389 of that period and history and made the connection. 00:11:36.710 --> 00:11:41.470 So it's kind of like a lot of people have that, 00:11:41.529 --> 00:11:46.889 I suppose they have that concern that now we 00:11:46.889 --> 00:11:51.870 are losing so many of the vets, that where is 00:11:51.870 --> 00:11:54.750 that continuation going to be? in terms of remembrance, 00:11:55.070 --> 00:11:57.190 but I've got to say, you know, when I get out 00:11:57.190 --> 00:11:59.549 to sort of anniversary things with a lot of the, 00:11:59.549 --> 00:12:03.350 a lot of the fellas, you know, I don't see it 00:12:03.350 --> 00:12:05.610 slacking off. I think any, if anything, it's 00:12:05.610 --> 00:12:08.990 gaining momentum and, and in all the right ways, 00:12:09.049 --> 00:12:11.990 you know, I feel like it's, it's something to 00:12:11.990 --> 00:12:15.090 really admire the people behind these things 00:12:15.090 --> 00:12:17.129 as well. I mean, they, you know, they, they really 00:12:17.129 --> 00:12:22.159 do a great, a great job. to keep the flame, to 00:12:22.159 --> 00:12:27.019 keep the torch alive. And so for us to do whatever 00:12:27.019 --> 00:12:28.919 we can, you know, whether we are the sort of 00:12:28.919 --> 00:12:32.080 like the inadvertent sort of torchbearers in 00:12:32.080 --> 00:12:35.399 one sense, you know, now the vets themselves 00:12:35.399 --> 00:12:39.440 have passed away, then along with the actual 00:12:39.440 --> 00:12:43.419 families, you know, we don't have any beef with 00:12:43.419 --> 00:12:45.120 that. You know, that's an honour, you know, to 00:12:45.120 --> 00:12:48.919 do, to be, to have that. sort of mantle to have 00:12:48.919 --> 00:12:51.559 that sort of responsibility i think it's it's 00:12:51.559 --> 00:12:54.860 great so if somebody's getting in to history 00:12:54.860 --> 00:12:58.220 through a renee le maire the belgian nurse or 00:12:58.220 --> 00:13:01.240 you know they they they see a dick winters they 00:13:01.240 --> 00:13:05.279 see you know on tv or whatever that's their way 00:13:05.279 --> 00:13:08.340 into learning about it dressing up like a paratrooper 00:13:08.340 --> 00:13:10.679 then you know it's great and i've seen so much 00:13:10.679 --> 00:13:13.960 of that that i don't have what i initially thought 00:13:13.960 --> 00:13:17.830 we might have um I don't have that sort of apprehension 00:13:17.830 --> 00:13:22.350 or worry that there's going to be a problem with 00:13:22.350 --> 00:13:26.250 that going forward. I think there's a real revelry 00:13:26.250 --> 00:13:29.850 with that era. And especially when I've gone 00:13:29.850 --> 00:13:33.490 to mainland Europe and I've seen, you know, obviously 00:13:33.490 --> 00:13:35.429 not just American, you know, but Canadian, British, 00:13:35.529 --> 00:13:37.490 French, you know, the whole allied sort of feel, 00:13:37.649 --> 00:13:41.960 you know, there's a real kind of... And for the 00:13:41.960 --> 00:13:43.799 German side, you know, it's all kind of part 00:13:43.799 --> 00:13:46.919 of it, this thing that they need to remember. 00:13:47.580 --> 00:13:50.639 And there's an important point to remember. You 00:13:50.639 --> 00:13:52.559 know, we don't want to be there again. So it's 00:13:52.559 --> 00:13:54.720 like there's a lesson. There are big lessons 00:13:54.720 --> 00:13:59.720 within this. And, yeah, so I don't feel, I feel 00:13:59.720 --> 00:14:01.600 like we're going in the right direction. And 00:14:01.600 --> 00:14:06.899 I don't see it waning at all. I think it's, there 00:14:06.899 --> 00:14:09.120 are too many people involved keeping the spirit 00:14:09.120 --> 00:14:13.860 alive. Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think now 00:14:13.860 --> 00:14:16.379 more than ever, we need to be reminded of all 00:14:16.379 --> 00:14:18.500 the incredible things that came out of it. And 00:14:18.500 --> 00:14:21.179 as you said, all the tragic things. So when there's 00:14:21.179 --> 00:14:23.200 division, when there's tyranny, you know, and 00:14:23.200 --> 00:14:25.419 you start getting anti -Semitism or, you know, 00:14:25.419 --> 00:14:28.600 all the other kind of layers of prejudice, we 00:14:28.600 --> 00:14:31.120 have to look back to this is what could happen. 00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:32.740 I mean, look, you know, World War II is a perfect 00:14:32.740 --> 00:14:35.629 example. When we look at... what a leader should 00:14:35.629 --> 00:14:37.889 look like. You know, you talk about Winston Churchill, 00:14:37.990 --> 00:14:39.769 who was by no means an angel. You know, Dick 00:14:39.769 --> 00:14:42.370 Winters, you know, so many of these great, great 00:14:42.370 --> 00:14:44.649 leader figures. And then we contrast that with 00:14:44.649 --> 00:14:47.299 now. I mean, fucking... you know donald trump 00:14:47.299 --> 00:14:50.879 and joe biden and boris i mean jesus christ talk 00:14:50.879 --> 00:14:53.039 about it i don't know how we got there but we're 00:14:53.039 --> 00:14:56.799 here and it is what it is oh yeah but it's it's 00:14:56.799 --> 00:14:59.039 our reality right now so but there's a there's 00:14:59.039 --> 00:15:00.659 your there's your sign there's the big red flag 00:15:00.659 --> 00:15:02.779 that's what a leader is supposed to look like 00:15:02.779 --> 00:15:05.019 this is what we're being given as leaders at 00:15:05.019 --> 00:15:07.500 the moment and it's not political it's just i 00:15:07.500 --> 00:15:10.059 don't want history to repeat itself and when 00:15:10.059 --> 00:15:12.740 i see people dividing countries instead of unifying 00:15:12.740 --> 00:15:15.759 them that terrifies me regardless of your politics 00:15:16.379 --> 00:15:19.559 Right. And with no interest, it seems. No interest 00:15:19.559 --> 00:15:22.679 to unify. No matter what side you are at, it's 00:15:22.679 --> 00:15:24.820 where you're planting your flag. There doesn't 00:15:24.820 --> 00:15:28.659 seem to be an interest in that unified progression. 00:15:30.440 --> 00:15:34.379 So, yeah, the inspirational leader is lacking 00:15:34.379 --> 00:15:40.759 right now, I think. But in both places, I think. 00:15:40.919 --> 00:15:43.539 But yeah, going back to Dick Winters, I mean, 00:15:43.559 --> 00:15:48.470 that's a whole different breed. you know that 00:15:48.470 --> 00:15:50.269 greatest generation thing that you know it's 00:15:50.269 --> 00:15:54.029 it's a really it's a it's a really amazing thing 00:15:54.029 --> 00:15:57.850 to sort of you know read about him and you know 00:15:57.850 --> 00:15:59.490 after the event i didn't know anything about 00:15:59.490 --> 00:16:01.929 easy company really i mean i was a big i was 00:16:01.929 --> 00:16:03.990 into world war ii history i had a great history 00:16:03.990 --> 00:16:08.889 teacher at school and um and uh i think the first 00:16:08.889 --> 00:16:10.429 thing actually the first thing i started to learn 00:16:10.429 --> 00:16:12.090 about was the third reich i was learning about 00:16:12.090 --> 00:16:15.129 all of the origins there um And then it kind 00:16:15.129 --> 00:16:17.429 of branched out. But, you know, it was so specific, 00:16:17.529 --> 00:16:20.970 Easy Company, and, you know, a particular unit 00:16:20.970 --> 00:16:24.049 there that, yeah, that bypassed me. But obviously, 00:16:24.230 --> 00:16:27.009 once I was introduced to it, then you start reading 00:16:27.009 --> 00:16:32.110 about all of it and going from there. And, yeah, 00:16:33.269 --> 00:16:37.429 you know, it's ridiculous, isn't it? Some of 00:16:37.429 --> 00:16:41.409 the, just in terms of what they did, how they 00:16:41.409 --> 00:16:45.240 went about it. you know, true, truly inspirational 00:16:45.240 --> 00:16:48.419 as, as, you know, which of course we don't quite 00:16:48.419 --> 00:16:51.139 have today, but yeah, I think it's, it was an 00:16:51.139 --> 00:16:53.559 eye opener for me for sure. Yeah. And there's 00:16:53.559 --> 00:16:56.259 so many other things post -World War II that 00:16:56.259 --> 00:16:58.860 are fascinating. Firstly, I myself kind of bought 00:16:58.860 --> 00:17:01.000 into the fact that the World War II generation 00:17:02.190 --> 00:17:04.089 mentally did well because they had ticker tape 00:17:04.089 --> 00:17:06.210 parades and you know you see the iconic photos 00:17:06.210 --> 00:17:08.289 but then you take a step back and you listen 00:17:08.289 --> 00:17:10.450 to to voices of that era and you're like well 00:17:10.450 --> 00:17:12.710 yeah some people did if you got on that ship 00:17:12.710 --> 00:17:15.490 and you return to Manhattan that's what you agree 00:17:15.490 --> 00:17:18.670 with but you know if you return to rural Idaho 00:17:19.339 --> 00:17:21.400 Maybe you didn't get that and you just went back 00:17:21.400 --> 00:17:24.039 to your room and then you had to go get a regular 00:17:24.039 --> 00:17:26.339 job and all the stuff that you'd done in a completely 00:17:26.339 --> 00:17:28.200 different country, you just had to bury down. 00:17:28.380 --> 00:17:30.940 And we saw that from our World War II veterans. 00:17:31.240 --> 00:17:33.279 And then another thing that I've talked about 00:17:33.279 --> 00:17:37.079 on here a lot, whether it's the South in the 00:17:37.079 --> 00:17:39.619 1950s in America, whether it's post -wind rush 00:17:39.619 --> 00:17:44.599 1950s in London, how do you go from fighting 00:17:44.599 --> 00:17:47.500 prejudice on foreign soil for complete strangers 00:17:47.500 --> 00:17:50.299 alongside you know, soldiers, sailors, airmen 00:17:50.299 --> 00:17:53.160 of all colors and creeds, and then come back 00:17:53.160 --> 00:17:55.819 to your country and beat up people because of 00:17:55.819 --> 00:17:57.440 the color of their skin or string them up from 00:17:57.440 --> 00:18:00.240 a tree. That I don't get. And women go back in 00:18:00.240 --> 00:18:02.400 the kitchen and become, you know, after they 00:18:02.400 --> 00:18:04.619 were just, you know, iron workers and God knows 00:18:04.619 --> 00:18:07.680 what. I don't understand that shift too. So again, 00:18:07.819 --> 00:18:10.380 if we do not learn and analyze these, we are 00:18:10.380 --> 00:18:13.480 doomed to repeat ourselves. Yeah, it's incredible, 00:18:13.680 --> 00:18:16.019 isn't it? Because especially when they're, you 00:18:16.019 --> 00:18:19.210 know, you know, it's the old country over here. 00:18:19.309 --> 00:18:21.170 So it was, you know, at that time it was, I mean, 00:18:21.190 --> 00:18:23.009 I remember reading about that, you know, the 00:18:23.009 --> 00:18:26.190 segregation units in the States and certain things 00:18:26.190 --> 00:18:29.309 of that period, you know, and of course it was 00:18:29.309 --> 00:18:31.349 a kind of a weird thing to be greeted with here 00:18:31.349 --> 00:18:33.890 when everybody arrived in that kind of, you know, 00:18:33.910 --> 00:18:36.549 the way they were compartmentalised, I suppose, 00:18:36.690 --> 00:18:43.470 and not integrated. So it was, you know, that 00:18:43.470 --> 00:18:45.869 was a kind of an eye opener. But I always feel 00:18:45.869 --> 00:18:49.470 like the social, you know, that social reintegration 00:18:49.470 --> 00:18:53.730 is always a, that's always something that you 00:18:53.730 --> 00:18:55.869 look at, you know, you try and sort of think, 00:18:55.930 --> 00:18:58.109 well, like you say, the infrastructure wasn't 00:18:58.109 --> 00:19:02.289 necessarily in place. And people struggle now 00:19:02.289 --> 00:19:03.930 in contemporary terms, but there are at least 00:19:03.930 --> 00:19:08.410 there are certain things in place to help vets. 00:19:09.150 --> 00:19:13.160 And I just think, you know, my, My grandfather 00:19:13.160 --> 00:19:19.339 was from Edinburgh and he was a prisoner of war 00:19:19.339 --> 00:19:22.259 in Germany for the best part of five years, actually, 00:19:22.299 --> 00:19:27.700 most of the war. And for him to sort of come 00:19:27.700 --> 00:19:32.519 back after that and try and sort of live some 00:19:32.519 --> 00:19:37.099 kind of regular existence was just not on the 00:19:37.099 --> 00:19:39.480 cards for him. And there wasn't anything at all. 00:19:39.640 --> 00:19:45.000 He just went. Back to Edinburgh and and and and 00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:47.420 got into the bottle pretty heavily. I mean, you 00:19:47.420 --> 00:19:49.660 know, he's from Scotland, so he liked his whiskey 00:19:49.660 --> 00:19:53.180 anyway. But I mean, he was just, you know, according 00:19:53.180 --> 00:19:57.640 to my mom, you know, it was just like a it was 00:19:57.640 --> 00:20:01.180 a horrendous time for him, you know, and and, 00:20:01.299 --> 00:20:04.000 you know, the drink took him early, you know, 00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:05.880 way early. But there was nothing there. There 00:20:05.880 --> 00:20:10.039 was nothing there for him to no outlet, no platform. 00:20:10.839 --> 00:20:15.839 And so I feel like we're sort of in a better 00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:18.440 place, but there still seems to be a lot that 00:20:18.440 --> 00:20:26.460 can be done in those terms. But how do you deal 00:20:26.460 --> 00:20:31.019 with it? How do you deal with it? You must have 00:20:31.019 --> 00:20:35.119 what you've done. Are there things in place for 00:20:35.119 --> 00:20:38.599 you and the people that you've worked with before? 00:20:38.819 --> 00:20:41.740 I mean, are there groups? When you retire from 00:20:41.740 --> 00:20:45.119 service or whatever, are there things in place 00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:52.039 that you go to or any of your team? No, is the 00:20:52.039 --> 00:20:55.920 short answer. When you retire from the fire service 00:20:55.920 --> 00:20:59.259 or law enforcement in America. So if you're a 00:20:59.259 --> 00:21:01.240 veteran and you get hurt, obviously, or you have 00:21:01.240 --> 00:21:04.000 anything that's related to your service, I believe 00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:06.799 that qualifies you for the VA. And I think there's 00:21:06.799 --> 00:21:09.480 TRICARE as well, which is... I don't know if 00:21:09.480 --> 00:21:11.599 it's if you weren't impacted or if it's family, 00:21:11.680 --> 00:21:13.940 but you have that umbrella as well. Or either 00:21:13.940 --> 00:21:16.440 of those perfect systems, no. But there's at 00:21:16.440 --> 00:21:19.319 least an attempt to take care of them post -service. 00:21:19.359 --> 00:21:22.259 In law and fire, once you're gone, you're gone. 00:21:22.319 --> 00:21:24.519 When that door closes and your ID doesn't work 00:21:24.519 --> 00:21:26.880 anymore, it's like, all right, bye, thanks. Not 00:21:26.880 --> 00:21:30.680 even thanks, just bye, usually. So that's the 00:21:30.680 --> 00:21:33.240 problem. And then it's only when you transition 00:21:33.240 --> 00:21:36.740 out of that. whether you're a soldier or a sailor 00:21:36.740 --> 00:21:38.660 or whether you're a firefighter or a police officer, 00:21:38.799 --> 00:21:42.039 and you've now lost that tribe that you worked 00:21:42.039 --> 00:21:44.420 to launch, you've lost that sense of purpose, 00:21:44.619 --> 00:21:46.640 like, you know, your job meant something when 00:21:46.640 --> 00:21:49.119 you were wearing the uniform, you know, that 00:21:49.119 --> 00:21:53.160 community, that's all taken away. And now you're 00:21:53.160 --> 00:21:55.900 back at home, you know, with family, alone, whatever 00:21:55.900 --> 00:21:58.869 that looks like. And you've now got time for 00:21:58.869 --> 00:22:01.009 all the things that maybe were kind of kept at 00:22:01.009 --> 00:22:02.930 bay by the excitement of your job and by the 00:22:02.930 --> 00:22:05.029 bonding experience of the men and women you worked 00:22:05.029 --> 00:22:08.170 with. And that is where we see a lot of people 00:22:08.170 --> 00:22:10.849 struggling. If you look at the Vietnam era, from 00:22:10.849 --> 00:22:13.700 what I understand, a lot of them now. that jumped 00:22:13.700 --> 00:22:16.880 back into some sort of profession are now at 00:22:16.880 --> 00:22:19.980 retirement age so now we're seeing an uptick 00:22:19.980 --> 00:22:23.980 in in suicides and overdoses and um because that 00:22:23.980 --> 00:22:25.960 was that kind of kept it at bay when they found 00:22:25.960 --> 00:22:27.799 another community and then they they transitioned 00:22:27.799 --> 00:22:31.519 out so there are a huge amount of solutions but 00:22:31.519 --> 00:22:35.990 none of them are really provided to At least 00:22:35.990 --> 00:22:38.450 in, in first responder professions, a lot of 00:22:38.450 --> 00:22:41.509 times it's nonprofits or people, you know, luckily 00:22:41.509 --> 00:22:43.369 look in the right direction and find the right 00:22:43.369 --> 00:22:46.150 person. But, but yeah, we can do so much better 00:22:46.150 --> 00:22:49.710 for, for the military, but especially first responders, 00:22:49.829 --> 00:22:51.309 because they have very, very little support. 00:22:53.289 --> 00:22:56.410 Well, you know, we, we talked off there about 00:22:56.410 --> 00:23:00.309 before about this, this, um, charity and, and, 00:23:00.349 --> 00:23:05.059 and a sort of, uh, uh, they call it the veterans 00:23:05.059 --> 00:23:08.400 hub that I've started to become connected with. 00:23:09.140 --> 00:23:13.500 Essentially, it's a social cafe for veterans 00:23:13.500 --> 00:23:17.200 of all campaigns, you know, and of all ages. 00:23:17.359 --> 00:23:20.839 And in fact, it doesn't stop there. I mean, people 00:23:20.839 --> 00:23:23.799 that are actively serving right now are thinking 00:23:23.799 --> 00:23:26.559 about it. And it's even broadened out to sort 00:23:26.559 --> 00:23:30.039 of some of the youngsters in the area that are 00:23:30.039 --> 00:23:34.130 kind of have been socially deprived they you 00:23:34.130 --> 00:23:37.910 know they're a bit more they're in need and they've 00:23:37.910 --> 00:23:42.170 been embraced by the hub and I went down there 00:23:42.170 --> 00:23:45.430 at the back end of last year and and saw it for 00:23:45.430 --> 00:23:48.630 myself and it was a really it was a it was a 00:23:48.630 --> 00:23:51.630 it was a great thing to witness because you know 00:23:51.630 --> 00:23:54.809 you had these vets that obviously as you would 00:23:54.809 --> 00:24:00.500 know you know some Some are able to talk more 00:24:00.500 --> 00:24:03.799 than others about certain things. But those that 00:24:03.799 --> 00:24:06.799 haven't, maybe to their family and close friends 00:24:06.799 --> 00:24:08.539 outside of the services that they haven't been 00:24:08.539 --> 00:24:11.359 able to communicate so much, when they get into 00:24:11.359 --> 00:24:14.599 that environment with others, they may not have 00:24:14.599 --> 00:24:17.279 served directly with them, but there is this 00:24:17.279 --> 00:24:21.880 common denominator that they've all shared an 00:24:21.880 --> 00:24:24.420 experience or a set of experiences. So it has 00:24:24.420 --> 00:24:30.900 been easier for those. for those people to, to, 00:24:30.960 --> 00:24:34.019 to just have a coffee and chat about all sorts 00:24:34.019 --> 00:24:35.720 of stuff. And it doesn't have to be obviously 00:24:35.720 --> 00:24:41.240 about, you know, being in battle or anything, 00:24:41.319 --> 00:24:45.200 but it's, but the, just, just the whole idea 00:24:45.200 --> 00:24:47.740 of having somewhere that because there was nowhere 00:24:47.740 --> 00:24:51.099 and there was no support at a grander level, 00:24:51.160 --> 00:24:55.720 you know, this is a very independently run thing 00:24:55.720 --> 00:24:59.549 with, you know, fueled by the community spirit 00:24:59.549 --> 00:25:03.950 and um and and but for me to see it and also 00:25:03.950 --> 00:25:07.009 for people to be able to talk about their experiences 00:25:07.009 --> 00:25:09.009 here i was you know i wasn't anybody i just came 00:25:09.009 --> 00:25:12.650 in there and and i'm just talking to a few a 00:25:12.650 --> 00:25:14.509 few of the people there and you know fascinating 00:25:14.509 --> 00:25:19.269 great characters stories to tell but each and 00:25:19.269 --> 00:25:22.569 every one of them would you know really did sort 00:25:22.569 --> 00:25:24.809 of validate the importance of somewhere like 00:25:24.809 --> 00:25:26.690 that, you know, and obviously it wasn't just 00:25:26.690 --> 00:25:29.710 about a coffee shop, you know, it was a, it was, 00:25:29.730 --> 00:25:33.509 they have these professional professionals on 00:25:33.509 --> 00:25:37.650 site. They have an area for therapy dogs, you 00:25:37.650 --> 00:25:42.710 know, massage. There's a, there's a, there's 00:25:42.710 --> 00:25:44.589 a vegetable patch. There's like a garden and 00:25:44.589 --> 00:25:46.529 a few of the, few of the vets were out there 00:25:46.529 --> 00:25:50.700 that were green fingered, you know? showing me 00:25:50.700 --> 00:25:53.720 around. I didn't know what anything was, but 00:25:53.720 --> 00:25:57.500 it was great to see them excited. And that's 00:25:57.500 --> 00:26:00.900 the thing, isn't it? It's almost like rekindling 00:26:00.900 --> 00:26:05.700 an excitement and an enthusiasm about life, which 00:26:05.700 --> 00:26:09.140 in their experience, and understandably so, could 00:26:09.140 --> 00:26:11.119 have been just ripped from them once they got 00:26:11.119 --> 00:26:16.960 back and falling into... depression and stuff 00:26:16.960 --> 00:26:18.519 like that you know that's what that's going to 00:26:18.519 --> 00:26:20.759 be the byproduct that you lose all sense of anything 00:26:20.759 --> 00:26:26.480 uh in terms of just just simple joy going forward 00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:29.799 and so what that's done or i felt it was doing 00:26:29.799 --> 00:26:33.319 and it is doing is it's it's bringing back those 00:26:33.319 --> 00:26:37.180 kind of moments the those those simple joys um 00:26:37.180 --> 00:26:40.400 and collectively you know there's again it's 00:26:40.400 --> 00:26:43.859 unity we talk about you know those leaders that 00:26:43.859 --> 00:26:47.099 are not being unifying but that you know this 00:26:47.099 --> 00:26:49.640 sort of thing was was it was a place of great 00:26:49.640 --> 00:26:54.079 unity and great strength as a result of it beautiful 00:26:54.079 --> 00:26:57.180 yeah and that's the key i mean it's community 00:26:57.180 --> 00:26:59.920 it's finding a new tribe it's creating an environment 00:26:59.920 --> 00:27:02.960 to be able to storytell so i had a group of british 00:27:02.960 --> 00:27:05.420 firefighters on here that have our blue light 00:27:05.420 --> 00:27:08.500 which is a non -profit for emergency responders 00:27:08.500 --> 00:27:11.660 there's a group of british police officers that 00:27:11.660 --> 00:27:14.809 have surf well where they take you know responders 00:27:14.809 --> 00:27:17.750 surfing I actually had an amazing one Tom Hewitt 00:27:17.750 --> 00:27:19.730 who's in he's English but he's actually in South 00:27:19.730 --> 00:27:23.150 Africa and it's surfers not street kids or street 00:27:23.150 --> 00:27:25.970 children and they take children they teach them 00:27:25.970 --> 00:27:28.490 how to swim there's a huge irony to living right 00:27:28.490 --> 00:27:30.910 by the coast but believing that there's demons 00:27:30.910 --> 00:27:33.170 and monsters in the ocean so they don't swim 00:27:33.170 --> 00:27:35.009 so they teach them to swim they teach them to 00:27:35.009 --> 00:27:39.720 surf but again after that tribal experience of 00:27:39.720 --> 00:27:41.500 surfing you've got nature you've got sunshine 00:27:41.500 --> 00:27:44.599 you've got exertion then when they're on the 00:27:44.599 --> 00:27:47.180 beach Then, as you said, counselors will come 00:27:47.180 --> 00:27:48.779 in and they'll start working with these kids 00:27:48.779 --> 00:27:50.839 because a lot of them are orphaned from HIV and 00:27:50.839 --> 00:27:53.119 violence and, you know, overdoses and all kinds 00:27:53.119 --> 00:27:56.160 of things. So, yeah, but there's a common denominator 00:27:56.160 --> 00:27:57.819 in each one of those. Like you said, firstly, 00:27:57.859 --> 00:27:59.880 as a leader who actually understands leadership 00:27:59.880 --> 00:28:03.339 and who brings a community together, makes them 00:28:03.339 --> 00:28:06.880 feel like they are, you know, a tribe, gives 00:28:06.880 --> 00:28:09.740 them purpose and then therefore creates an environment 00:28:09.740 --> 00:28:12.440 that they feel comfortable to tell stories. And 00:28:12.440 --> 00:28:16.809 that is where the healing is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 00:28:16.930 --> 00:28:19.309 It's, it's, it's, it's, it's a no brainer, isn't 00:28:19.309 --> 00:28:21.930 it? For things like this to, to exist in the 00:28:21.930 --> 00:28:24.829 world. And it's the least, the very least if 00:28:24.829 --> 00:28:30.829 the world can do, if it seems, but, but of course 00:28:30.829 --> 00:28:33.190 it's, it's, it's a struggle, you know, resources 00:28:33.190 --> 00:28:35.809 are needed all over the world for stuff like 00:28:35.809 --> 00:28:39.349 this. And, but, you know, at the moment it's 00:28:39.349 --> 00:28:42.410 early days for, for, for my involvement here. 00:28:44.170 --> 00:28:47.990 you know i should name check andy price and lisa 00:28:47.990 --> 00:28:50.670 rushby and the david airless charity are part 00:28:50.670 --> 00:28:54.049 of this whole thing and um and they're down in 00:28:54.049 --> 00:28:56.309 dorset james which you probably know is a county 00:28:56.309 --> 00:28:59.569 in the southwest of england um so just doing 00:28:59.569 --> 00:29:02.470 their thing doing their little bit um for the 00:29:02.470 --> 00:29:05.130 greater good like an easy company almost you 00:29:05.130 --> 00:29:08.470 know it's uh it's it's it's but it was it's good 00:29:08.470 --> 00:29:12.750 to see you know um and uh you know we'll see 00:29:12.750 --> 00:29:19.859 where it leads but yeah i am yeah i you know 00:29:19.859 --> 00:29:22.980 i feel i feel almost like a you do have that 00:29:22.980 --> 00:29:24.819 imposter syndrome because it's kind of like well 00:29:24.819 --> 00:29:27.759 you know i'm just a talking prop i mean i don't 00:29:27.759 --> 00:29:30.359 know what sort of what i can do in this environment 00:29:30.359 --> 00:29:33.019 you know i'm well out of my depth i haven't served 00:29:33.019 --> 00:29:38.119 you know uh but there they were you know talking 00:29:38.119 --> 00:29:41.829 to me about stuff that i just you know and i 00:29:41.829 --> 00:29:45.549 was in awe i was in complete and utter awe with 00:29:45.549 --> 00:29:50.410 everyone um because you know i'm i'm flying around 00:29:50.410 --> 00:29:55.829 with sponge you know debris hitting my head it's 00:29:55.829 --> 00:29:58.609 not going to cut me open but obviously they've 00:29:58.609 --> 00:30:02.150 been in situations where very real you know and 00:30:02.150 --> 00:30:07.960 um and very scary you know so All I had to worry 00:30:07.960 --> 00:30:09.859 about and all I had to be scared about was if 00:30:09.859 --> 00:30:12.359 Tom Hanks said that was a pile of shit, let's 00:30:12.359 --> 00:30:21.460 do it again. So no contest. But yeah, I'm pleased 00:30:21.460 --> 00:30:24.579 to sort of be part of something that's... I mean, 00:30:24.599 --> 00:30:28.140 that's the thing. You're in a show, like we touched 00:30:28.140 --> 00:30:31.039 on earlier, there's a good gateway for kids, 00:30:31.079 --> 00:30:33.140 especially the younger generation, to get involved 00:30:33.140 --> 00:30:36.880 and start learning about stuff. That serves its 00:30:36.880 --> 00:30:40.420 purpose. But then, you know, this this and that 00:30:40.420 --> 00:30:43.740 means something, obviously. But then but this 00:30:43.740 --> 00:30:47.940 this this this is a sort of a this has a more 00:30:47.940 --> 00:30:50.299 profound resonance, you know, to just deal with 00:30:50.299 --> 00:30:53.380 these people at the moment and and try and push 00:30:53.380 --> 00:30:57.400 on. And, you know, and again, you know, it's 00:30:57.400 --> 00:31:00.619 about that is in service of remembrance. This 00:31:00.619 --> 00:31:04.200 is in service of awareness and keeping that going, 00:31:04.279 --> 00:31:07.599 you know. Absolutely. Well, I'd love to kind 00:31:07.599 --> 00:31:09.880 of walk through your journey into drama school 00:31:09.880 --> 00:31:12.240 and then out the other side. You talked about 00:31:12.240 --> 00:31:14.420 your grandfather coming back from World War Two 00:31:14.420 --> 00:31:16.920 and struggling. I think that multi -generational 00:31:16.920 --> 00:31:20.859 trauma is a discussion that we don't have enough. 00:31:21.200 --> 00:31:24.119 We don't identify enough, especially in. fire 00:31:24.119 --> 00:31:25.980 and military we just talk about what we see what 00:31:25.980 --> 00:31:28.180 we did and not about what our childhood was like 00:31:28.180 --> 00:31:31.579 so you know what was that impact on your mom 00:31:31.579 --> 00:31:34.240 and then kind of walk me through your your early 00:31:34.240 --> 00:31:38.740 life and then let's go into to drama school um 00:31:38.740 --> 00:31:43.619 well i think she had a brother and the brother 00:31:43.619 --> 00:31:48.839 suffered on the grandfather's return or her dad's 00:31:48.839 --> 00:31:52.480 return uh but she was kind of a favorite i think 00:31:53.900 --> 00:31:57.299 It's very sketchy with that stuff. I mean, I 00:31:57.299 --> 00:32:02.220 think she was only maybe 15 when he died, you 00:32:02.220 --> 00:32:07.759 know. But she saw enough. She saw enough of those 00:32:07.759 --> 00:32:11.779 swings that could happen, the rages that could 00:32:11.779 --> 00:32:19.940 happen. And so I guess, yeah, there was an indelible 00:32:19.940 --> 00:32:24.630 print on her. psyche of what he was but she had 00:32:24.630 --> 00:32:28.130 if there wasn't any of the best of him to be 00:32:28.130 --> 00:32:30.809 had then she had it you know so it was that flip 00:32:30.809 --> 00:32:38.910 side uh for her um but yeah my you know my i 00:32:38.910 --> 00:32:42.410 don't know i mean my it's an interesting question 00:32:42.410 --> 00:32:44.710 generational trauma it's kind of interesting 00:32:44.710 --> 00:32:47.829 i don't all i can say james is i got lucky you 00:32:47.829 --> 00:32:51.279 know i got lucky all of that stuff She didn't 00:32:51.279 --> 00:32:54.279 take that into motherhood. And I'm the only kid. 00:32:54.440 --> 00:32:56.680 I'm the only child. They wanted more. But, you 00:32:56.680 --> 00:33:02.539 know, but I had a tremendous, tremendous group 00:33:02.539 --> 00:33:07.460 of where I live was kind of it was sort of suburban, 00:33:07.460 --> 00:33:09.920 but sort of rural as well. We backed on the hills 00:33:09.920 --> 00:33:14.890 and woodlands and stuff like that. I had so many 00:33:14.890 --> 00:33:18.049 friends with so many siblings. It was a real 00:33:18.049 --> 00:33:20.569 kind of, it was like the gang of Stan by me, 00:33:20.630 --> 00:33:22.910 but you multiply that by about 15, you know, 00:33:22.930 --> 00:33:24.950 girls, boys, the lot. And we were all within 00:33:24.950 --> 00:33:28.750 like a two or three year age range, you know, 00:33:28.750 --> 00:33:33.490 so we were tight and we were many. And we didn't 00:33:33.490 --> 00:33:37.710 cause that much trouble, bizarrely. Not so much, 00:33:37.730 --> 00:33:40.730 you know, we were just in the woodlands and, 00:33:40.730 --> 00:33:45.400 you know, My mum and dad really never saw me. 00:33:45.420 --> 00:33:50.180 I was really outdoorsy, you know, loved, just 00:33:50.180 --> 00:33:55.200 loved being around my friends and, excuse me. 00:33:57.099 --> 00:34:00.400 Yeah, I don't think, and they were loving parents. 00:34:00.579 --> 00:34:03.240 You know, my dad's from sort of merchant Navy 00:34:03.240 --> 00:34:06.740 stock, but then he went to, into sort of deep 00:34:06.740 --> 00:34:10.699 sea cargo things, potentially have brothers or 00:34:10.699 --> 00:34:14.010 sisters in West, in the West Indies. um but this 00:34:14.010 --> 00:34:18.090 was before he was married uh but uh you know 00:34:18.090 --> 00:34:23.750 he um he was he was and still is you know he's 00:34:23.750 --> 00:34:27.670 a lovely lovely fella and um you know if there 00:34:27.670 --> 00:34:30.769 was a template for fatherhood he's a good one 00:34:30.769 --> 00:34:38.309 you know uh and you know so my you know i when 00:34:38.309 --> 00:34:40.309 i got to and i'm jumping ahead a little bit here 00:34:40.309 --> 00:34:45.739 but when i did go to to my drama academy. And 00:34:45.739 --> 00:34:48.860 I started to meet people there. And it's a fairly, 00:34:48.960 --> 00:34:51.519 if you're lucky to get in, you know, it's a sort 00:34:51.519 --> 00:34:53.420 of a small, there are small groups, small year 00:34:53.420 --> 00:34:57.239 groups. We were about 15 or 16 or something like 00:34:57.239 --> 00:35:00.380 that. And you're going around and you're doing 00:35:00.380 --> 00:35:03.980 all the introductions. And that's quite an international 00:35:03.980 --> 00:35:06.039 flavor, which is nice as well. You know, you're 00:35:06.039 --> 00:35:09.019 going all around. And you're talking about personal 00:35:09.019 --> 00:35:11.699 stuff. You know, it's part of the great deconstruction. 00:35:12.500 --> 00:35:15.559 and then let's see where let's see how you cope 00:35:15.559 --> 00:35:20.239 you know without any kind of life jacket you 00:35:20.239 --> 00:35:24.440 know but part of that was to kind of disclose 00:35:24.440 --> 00:35:27.699 you know stuff of your history you know personal 00:35:27.699 --> 00:35:32.679 history family backgrounds and I was amazed I 00:35:32.679 --> 00:35:39.760 was amazed by all bar maybe two others everybody 00:35:39.760 --> 00:35:45.880 had the most like three acts movie, you know, 00:35:45.880 --> 00:35:50.579 the, the, the, the, the sort of the, the, the 00:35:50.579 --> 00:35:56.099 trauma of, of their early years, um, you know, 00:35:56.119 --> 00:35:58.900 just, just more drama in the first, cause we 00:35:58.900 --> 00:36:01.099 were only like late teens and early twenties, 00:36:01.179 --> 00:36:03.739 you know? So they had almost like felt to me 00:36:03.739 --> 00:36:07.099 like they'd already had lifetimes worth of, of 00:36:07.099 --> 00:36:09.119 heavy trauma. It seemed, you know, it was like, 00:36:09.179 --> 00:36:11.670 my God. That really happened to you? That really 00:36:11.670 --> 00:36:15.369 happened to you growing up? I couldn't believe 00:36:15.369 --> 00:36:18.849 it. You know, I felt like everybody would have 00:36:18.849 --> 00:36:20.730 my sort of existence. You know, it was that sort 00:36:20.730 --> 00:36:23.349 of, you know, naively, I suppose, you know. I 00:36:23.349 --> 00:36:25.630 know you get the odd one or two, which I was 00:36:25.630 --> 00:36:27.710 thinking, you know, it was going to be a bad 00:36:27.710 --> 00:36:32.429 ride. But ultimately, you know, it was going 00:36:32.429 --> 00:36:34.969 to be okay. But it wasn't the case. I realized 00:36:34.969 --> 00:36:39.110 I was in the minority. And as I've gotten older, 00:36:39.269 --> 00:36:42.389 I've realized that actually, yeah, I just had 00:36:42.389 --> 00:36:47.429 a bit of a ticket in terms of my early years, 00:36:47.510 --> 00:36:52.570 you know, growing up and not feeling like I wasn't 00:36:52.570 --> 00:36:54.349 loved, you know, which is often the thing about 00:36:54.349 --> 00:36:55.909 getting into this industry, isn't it? It's like 00:36:55.909 --> 00:36:59.389 they always throw that out. You want the attention, 00:36:59.590 --> 00:37:00.949 you know, you didn't get the love or whatever, 00:37:01.050 --> 00:37:02.929 and you want the adoration. And I'd rather not 00:37:02.929 --> 00:37:05.269 have that. It's not that that's not the reason. 00:37:05.329 --> 00:37:08.489 You know, I just wanted a way to be able to sophisticatedly, 00:37:08.489 --> 00:37:11.809 sophisticatedly elongate childhood because I 00:37:11.809 --> 00:37:15.409 was a great sort of kid who, like most, you know, 00:37:15.409 --> 00:37:17.369 it was all about imagination. It was all about 00:37:17.369 --> 00:37:22.449 play. It was all about creation. And then you 00:37:22.449 --> 00:37:25.150 had to stop it. And I and I didn't I took offense 00:37:25.150 --> 00:37:28.230 to that, James. fire service is the same like 00:37:28.230 --> 00:37:30.190 literally we're having you know like food fights 00:37:30.190 --> 00:37:31.869 in the station and all of a sudden you have to 00:37:31.869 --> 00:37:33.949 clean up because you go do an emergency then 00:37:33.949 --> 00:37:36.130 you come back and now it's a fire competition 00:37:36.130 --> 00:37:39.570 in the bay or you know it's it literally is exactly 00:37:39.570 --> 00:37:41.809 what you're talking about you get to hang from 00:37:41.809 --> 00:37:45.090 ropes and smash cars up and you know go into 00:37:45.090 --> 00:37:46.929 burning buildings so yeah you are absolutely 00:37:46.929 --> 00:37:52.050 preaching to the choir yeah it's um you know 00:37:52.050 --> 00:37:56.699 so i yeah i felt like it was a Yeah, I came from 00:37:56.699 --> 00:37:59.840 good stock, as they say, I suppose. And, you 00:37:59.840 --> 00:38:02.719 know, life always has its ups and downs. So that's 00:38:02.719 --> 00:38:05.719 happened, obviously. But it's not, yeah, it's, 00:38:05.719 --> 00:38:09.679 you know, going back to that generational trauma, 00:38:09.739 --> 00:38:11.699 I was thinking if it's passed on, I don't, you 00:38:11.699 --> 00:38:14.400 know, if it came out in other ways, I didn't 00:38:14.400 --> 00:38:16.480 see it so much. You know, I was just, you know, 00:38:16.500 --> 00:38:20.300 from where my mum came from. you know my dad 00:38:20.300 --> 00:38:22.440 has a lot of they have a huge family my dad's 00:38:22.440 --> 00:38:24.360 like got six sisters and they've all had loads 00:38:24.360 --> 00:38:26.900 they just i can't i don't know how many they've 00:38:26.900 --> 00:38:30.559 had but it's um and and my grandfather was uh 00:38:30.559 --> 00:38:33.000 it's funny actually with my dad he his grandfather 00:38:33.000 --> 00:38:35.960 didn't serve he was like a a big kind of fisherman 00:38:35.960 --> 00:38:41.199 with trawler ships you know and uh he so he was 00:38:41.199 --> 00:38:44.079 part he was part of the you know catch the food 00:38:44.079 --> 00:38:46.920 for the home front and all that stuff and also 00:38:46.920 --> 00:38:49.699 mines in nets that they find in the others to 00:38:49.699 --> 00:38:51.519 kind of cut them out and all sorts of ridiculous. 00:38:51.760 --> 00:38:53.719 He'd dive down and do all sorts of weird stuff 00:38:53.719 --> 00:38:58.539 there. But my dad, my dad was my one day, apparently 00:38:58.539 --> 00:39:00.880 he was on a bike. He was on a motorbike, I think. 00:39:00.920 --> 00:39:04.579 And he was, he was going home and this is my 00:39:04.579 --> 00:39:08.000 grandfather, my dad's dad and Luftwaffe. They 00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:10.559 were coming back from some kind of raid, I guess. 00:39:10.599 --> 00:39:14.269 I don't know, but they were just. They saw him 00:39:14.269 --> 00:39:16.190 and decided to just get a bit of fire practice 00:39:16.190 --> 00:39:23.190 in on the way back. And so they shot down at 00:39:23.190 --> 00:39:28.170 him on his bike and literally hit the handlebars 00:39:28.170 --> 00:39:32.030 and the handlebars cracked open and he flew off 00:39:32.030 --> 00:39:34.969 into like a cornfield or whatever. He just, you 00:39:34.969 --> 00:39:38.500 know, submerged into that. You know, I think 00:39:38.500 --> 00:39:40.059 for the longest time, I think he still had the 00:39:40.059 --> 00:39:43.360 handlebars. But that was just one of those moments 00:39:43.360 --> 00:39:45.579 where you think, oh, my goodness, you know, incredible. 00:39:45.840 --> 00:39:47.860 I could just imagine him in the pub saying, how'd 00:39:47.860 --> 00:39:49.400 you break your bike? Well, you're not going to 00:39:49.400 --> 00:39:54.000 believe this. There I was. There I was. Yeah, 00:39:54.139 --> 00:39:56.260 there I was. You know, it's funny. My dad was 00:39:56.260 --> 00:39:57.579 saying that, you know, I said, well, why didn't 00:39:57.579 --> 00:39:59.300 you ever go into that? Because he was always 00:39:59.300 --> 00:40:03.039 about the Merchant Navy. And he was saying, well, 00:40:03.099 --> 00:40:07.380 you know, I went on a ship. with my dad, you 00:40:07.380 --> 00:40:11.019 know, and his best friend was called Alec. And, 00:40:11.079 --> 00:40:13.679 you know, obviously there was a big pub culture, 00:40:13.760 --> 00:40:16.340 you know, there still is a pub culture in Britain, 00:40:16.420 --> 00:40:19.739 as you know, James, but back in the day, there 00:40:19.739 --> 00:40:22.800 was a whole community and that was where, you 00:40:22.800 --> 00:40:25.719 know, HQ would be after a day's work. But before 00:40:25.719 --> 00:40:28.880 they got into that and sank a few pints and then 00:40:28.880 --> 00:40:31.360 were just taught for days, they would obviously 00:40:31.360 --> 00:40:36.130 go out onto the sea and... and do their, put 00:40:36.130 --> 00:40:41.230 in their graft. But my dad went out early on 00:40:41.230 --> 00:40:44.349 thinking, you know, okay, let's see what this 00:40:44.349 --> 00:40:47.369 is all about and get some pocket money or whatever. 00:40:47.530 --> 00:40:52.929 And then he said, my dad was saying, and it was 00:40:52.929 --> 00:40:54.710 just, I just knew I wasn't cut out for any of 00:40:54.710 --> 00:40:56.769 this. I just, I mean, you know, I'm a sea dog. 00:40:57.110 --> 00:40:59.070 I'm just not that kind of sea dog. And he said 00:40:59.070 --> 00:41:01.170 that when he went out there, his dad was like, 00:41:01.769 --> 00:41:04.010 you know, driving the ship or whatever. Alec 00:41:04.010 --> 00:41:05.769 was out in the back with some nets or something. 00:41:06.190 --> 00:41:08.010 And there was just nothing. Now these are best 00:41:08.010 --> 00:41:09.909 buddies. They're not saying a word to each other. 00:41:09.949 --> 00:41:12.130 Now my dad's kind of in the middle of it, doing 00:41:12.130 --> 00:41:14.869 stuff. I'm picking nets or tying up nets or something. 00:41:15.489 --> 00:41:19.389 And, and then all of a sudden my granddad was 00:41:19.389 --> 00:41:21.969 a larger than life sort of character. You know, 00:41:22.010 --> 00:41:24.110 you really couldn't understand too much. He was 00:41:24.110 --> 00:41:27.809 one of those classic, those types, you know? 00:41:28.090 --> 00:41:32.849 And so my dad would say, All of a sudden, you 00:41:32.849 --> 00:41:39.409 know, my dad would go. And Alec, back, would 00:41:39.409 --> 00:41:43.369 go. So it's inaudible. You couldn't make out 00:41:43.369 --> 00:41:46.190 the word. It was just noise. And my dad's looking 00:41:46.190 --> 00:41:54.050 at Alec and he's looking back. It's like my dad's 00:41:54.050 --> 00:41:57.429 looking back at Alec. So there's always an echo. 00:41:57.650 --> 00:41:59.789 Alec would always echo whatever the sound was. 00:42:00.750 --> 00:42:03.150 And it would mean something, you know, so we'd 00:42:03.150 --> 00:42:05.670 haul in or throw something out of the ship, you 00:42:05.670 --> 00:42:10.389 know, the boat. And my dad's like, OK, OK, this 00:42:10.389 --> 00:42:12.590 is this is an interesting communication. And 00:42:12.590 --> 00:42:16.469 and this went on for, you know, 15, 20 minutes, 00:42:16.489 --> 00:42:18.489 just like that. But it meant something and things 00:42:18.489 --> 00:42:22.130 were happening. So and then quiet, there'll be 00:42:22.130 --> 00:42:24.650 nothing and then it'll get to a break. They'll 00:42:24.650 --> 00:42:27.710 go smoke a cigarette, have some tea or coffee 00:42:27.710 --> 00:42:31.769 or whatever. And they'd just sit. My dad would 00:42:31.769 --> 00:42:35.050 be sitting in the middle of them, deathly silent, 00:42:35.150 --> 00:42:37.389 just quiet as you like, just nothing, nothing 00:42:37.389 --> 00:42:41.849 at all, you know. Then my granddad would clink 00:42:41.849 --> 00:42:45.650 something and up they'd get again. And that would 00:42:45.650 --> 00:42:49.269 be all day, it was like that. So they'd come 00:42:49.269 --> 00:42:53.650 home and my dad's like pulling his hair out after 00:42:53.650 --> 00:42:57.659 that. you know they'd go to the pub or it'd be 00:42:57.659 --> 00:42:59.800 it'd be invited to go into the pub and then they'd 00:42:59.800 --> 00:43:02.579 get into that sink a you know a pint or whatever 00:43:02.579 --> 00:43:05.360 and they could and then they wouldn't stop talking 00:43:05.360 --> 00:43:07.199 it would just be like everything would just switch 00:43:07.199 --> 00:43:10.360 on and that would be that you know but it was 00:43:10.360 --> 00:43:14.960 a really bizarre you know bizarre thing but yeah 00:43:14.960 --> 00:43:17.260 my dad was definitely not cut out for that he 00:43:17.260 --> 00:43:19.840 wanted a bit more adventure a bit more communication 00:43:19.840 --> 00:43:23.420 i suppose and um so he went deep sea instead 00:43:23.420 --> 00:43:25.860 but uh And I don't even know why I said that 00:43:25.860 --> 00:43:30.019 story, but it was just, yeah. But, you know, 00:43:30.059 --> 00:43:33.059 if there was any trauma for him, that was about 00:43:33.059 --> 00:43:35.219 the level it was at. That was all. It was just 00:43:35.219 --> 00:43:38.519 this ridiculous, you know, caveman -esque thing. 00:43:38.699 --> 00:43:42.719 And, yeah, and that wasn't his thing. But, yeah, 00:43:42.760 --> 00:43:48.840 I suppose, yeah, my backstory is pretty fairly 00:43:48.840 --> 00:43:52.420 straightforward and not. You know, it's only 00:43:52.420 --> 00:43:54.360 when I started getting into the industry, James, 00:43:54.400 --> 00:43:58.280 that the real drama happened, you know, metaphorically 00:43:58.280 --> 00:44:02.179 and literally. Well, it's funny with the conversation 00:44:02.179 --> 00:44:03.940 with your granddad and his friend, because it 00:44:03.940 --> 00:44:05.960 reminds me of the West Country where I grew up, 00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:08.780 where it's almost like they had a wheelbarrow 00:44:08.780 --> 00:44:10.639 full of consonants. They got to Swindon, it dumped 00:44:10.639 --> 00:44:11.960 over and they were like, ah, fuck it. Right, 00:44:12.079 --> 00:44:13.480 mate, how's it going? I just grew up lush, innit? 00:44:13.980 --> 00:44:16.909 What? I'm sorry, what? And I grew up with the 00:44:16.909 --> 00:44:20.369 RP. My parents were quite posh. And then I went 00:44:20.369 --> 00:44:22.550 to secondary school and everyone had a West Country 00:44:22.550 --> 00:44:24.469 accent. So we all sounded like pirates for a 00:44:24.469 --> 00:44:30.150 while. It's hilarious because my stepfather, 00:44:30.349 --> 00:44:34.659 he's got thick, thick, thick. west country accent 00:44:34.659 --> 00:44:37.199 and you know i'm fluent in english and west country 00:44:37.199 --> 00:44:39.559 so i'm bilingual so i can understand him but 00:44:39.559 --> 00:44:42.840 uh but it is it's just a bunch of vowels that 00:44:42.840 --> 00:44:44.739 you have to try to kind of sift through and find 00:44:44.739 --> 00:44:48.519 words yeah it's cute it's cute man i like it 00:44:48.519 --> 00:44:52.159 a lot you know um and and that you know he he 00:44:52.159 --> 00:44:56.480 was definitely one that was uh you know hard 00:44:56.480 --> 00:44:59.940 as nails as well i remember that but such a loving 00:44:59.940 --> 00:45:04.409 guy you know um you know i caught him well he 00:45:04.409 --> 00:45:07.570 was the cod father you know he's like not i don't 00:45:07.570 --> 00:45:09.530 think i actually caught cod i don't know that 00:45:09.530 --> 00:45:12.050 was what their thing was but that's what because 00:45:12.050 --> 00:45:14.269 he was literally like the leader type of that 00:45:14.269 --> 00:45:17.150 particular market i remember that and he would 00:45:17.150 --> 00:45:20.050 pay people off with like police with fish you 00:45:20.050 --> 00:45:21.750 know he's like that was his currency you know 00:45:21.750 --> 00:45:24.050 he just had it for everybody and then he could 00:45:24.880 --> 00:45:27.500 you know, he would get, you know, the chairman 00:45:27.500 --> 00:45:29.260 of, he got me into, cause I'm a bit of a Liverpool 00:45:29.260 --> 00:45:31.119 fan from old. I don't know, you know, Liverpool 00:45:31.119 --> 00:45:33.760 connection. I'm not from there, you know, but 00:45:33.760 --> 00:45:37.300 my, my granddad got me into so many games because 00:45:37.300 --> 00:45:39.860 he ended up, don't know how, but through fish 00:45:39.860 --> 00:45:43.860 of all things, he could be able to sort of, you 00:45:43.860 --> 00:45:47.400 know, get, have influence and, and, and get me 00:45:47.400 --> 00:45:50.420 tickets for all sorts of, all sorts of VIPs, 00:45:50.420 --> 00:45:54.449 you know. So he was, you know, he was one that 00:45:54.449 --> 00:46:01.510 was, yeah, I think back fondly of. And yeah, 00:46:01.710 --> 00:46:04.550 so it's, yeah, so that was it. It was fairly 00:46:04.550 --> 00:46:07.050 straightforward and fairly uneventful. Well, 00:46:07.170 --> 00:46:13.210 in terms of like, you know, high drama and, you 00:46:13.210 --> 00:46:16.809 know, but I didn't, but theatre was not a thing 00:46:16.809 --> 00:46:19.829 you could do from my neck of the woods, you know. 00:46:20.599 --> 00:46:24.260 fairly working class type of area and uh you 00:46:24.260 --> 00:46:26.800 know anything artistic was to kind of be frowned 00:46:26.800 --> 00:46:29.800 on or it was extracurricular and it was kind 00:46:29.800 --> 00:46:33.039 of you know groups that were just forming outside 00:46:33.039 --> 00:46:37.440 of school or whatever there were not any courses 00:46:37.440 --> 00:46:41.820 and and then i ended up going to college to be 00:46:41.820 --> 00:46:44.820 a journalist you know i was going to be it's 00:46:44.820 --> 00:46:46.559 going to be that and then and then i sort of 00:46:47.469 --> 00:46:50.130 um this was the step before the drama academies 00:46:50.130 --> 00:46:52.170 but there was somebody in college it was an english 00:46:52.170 --> 00:46:55.469 english lecturer i had and she had this drama 00:46:55.469 --> 00:46:57.469 group that was outside this youth this youth 00:46:57.469 --> 00:47:00.389 theater group and she said you know come and 00:47:00.389 --> 00:47:03.889 try out and i so i did i realized that that was 00:47:03.889 --> 00:47:07.710 a way of being able to you know uh keep keep 00:47:07.710 --> 00:47:11.789 a foot in and um and that was really i think 00:47:11.789 --> 00:47:15.400 that was the time that i felt like there might 00:47:15.400 --> 00:47:18.739 be a way of being able to explore this more seriously. 00:47:19.679 --> 00:47:24.340 And I was building up, they were a smart theatre 00:47:24.340 --> 00:47:27.599 group run by Stella Critchley and Daryl Brown, 00:47:27.840 --> 00:47:30.760 and they were really, really influential. They 00:47:30.760 --> 00:47:34.159 chose well, they had great taste in what they 00:47:34.159 --> 00:47:38.420 were doing, and I think through that, I was just 00:47:38.420 --> 00:47:40.460 learning all the time with them. So productions 00:47:40.460 --> 00:47:44.699 were, you know... through an average year, we 00:47:44.699 --> 00:47:48.000 may have got through three, four, perhaps, you 00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:50.659 know, but big, big productions, you know, classic 00:47:50.659 --> 00:47:53.280 as well as contemporary. And all the while I'm 00:47:53.280 --> 00:47:56.619 still sort of building up a youth theatre resume, 00:47:56.739 --> 00:47:59.739 a sort of CV that is that my, my roles were getting 00:47:59.739 --> 00:48:02.559 bigger. And then, you know, you're, you're playing 00:48:02.559 --> 00:48:04.539 the big, the big, big roles, you know, classical 00:48:04.539 --> 00:48:08.280 and otherwise. And, and all of that really helped, 00:48:08.300 --> 00:48:15.579 I think. And again, through Stella's, you know, 00:48:15.579 --> 00:48:17.960 influence, she was saying to me, well, I think 00:48:17.960 --> 00:48:20.860 to take this on, you know, you're not, don't 00:48:20.860 --> 00:48:23.460 necessarily go the sort of university route for 00:48:23.460 --> 00:48:28.000 degrees in theatre management, but go do the 00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:30.119 pragmatic stuff. You know, there are academies 00:48:30.119 --> 00:48:32.280 out there. I knew about RADA and Central. They 00:48:32.280 --> 00:48:35.690 were two kind of two big famous. over here. But 00:48:35.690 --> 00:48:37.289 then there were other ones. And there was this 00:48:37.289 --> 00:48:38.989 one in particular called Weber Douglas, which 00:48:38.989 --> 00:48:41.829 is as old as, more or less as, along with Rara, 00:48:41.829 --> 00:48:44.849 it's one of the oldest places. And I got the 00:48:44.849 --> 00:48:48.510 prospectus from there and I really loved it. 00:48:48.610 --> 00:48:52.530 And I thought, okay, let's have a go at this. 00:48:52.690 --> 00:48:55.630 And I did it early enough. So if it didn't work 00:48:55.630 --> 00:49:00.590 out, I still had time to apply for others. But, 00:49:00.650 --> 00:49:02.429 you know, I got in and that was it. I was like, 00:49:02.489 --> 00:49:05.440 I'm not going to, I don't even want to see if 00:49:05.440 --> 00:49:07.739 I can get into, you know, a rod or anything like 00:49:07.739 --> 00:49:09.059 that. I mean, this was the place that I really 00:49:09.059 --> 00:49:13.440 liked. I really responded to, uh, you know, Terrence 00:49:13.440 --> 00:49:15.800 stamp went there. Angela Lansbury went there. 00:49:15.940 --> 00:49:19.340 Uh, Christopher Reeve, uh, Eva green is more 00:49:19.340 --> 00:49:23.659 of a recent, I suppose. Um, Anthony share, great 00:49:23.659 --> 00:49:27.760 theater, man, you know, it, it just, it just 00:49:27.760 --> 00:49:30.320 ticks all the boxes for me. The only problem 00:49:30.320 --> 00:49:33.340 was it was a lot of money, you know, and, um, 00:49:33.599 --> 00:49:35.119 Again, you know, when you're from the working 00:49:35.119 --> 00:49:37.920 class background, it's a difficult thing. It's 00:49:37.920 --> 00:49:42.199 not a working class sport, James. And so we had 00:49:42.199 --> 00:49:44.159 a problem there. You know, getting in was one 00:49:44.159 --> 00:49:45.780 thing. It's like, okay, now what do we do? And 00:49:45.780 --> 00:49:49.440 because it wasn't where I was from at the time, 00:49:49.500 --> 00:49:51.679 you know, I was living in Kent at that point 00:49:51.679 --> 00:49:54.139 and it was just the county, they were not, again, 00:49:54.239 --> 00:49:56.940 it wasn't about that particular area and that 00:49:56.940 --> 00:50:00.260 corner at that time. They were not big on supporting 00:50:00.260 --> 00:50:01.940 these kind of artistic endeavours, you know. 00:50:02.730 --> 00:50:05.349 uh especially at that sort of those prices you 00:50:05.349 --> 00:50:08.289 know so that was a that was a difficult one and 00:50:08.289 --> 00:50:11.909 that and then so my parents were like willing 00:50:11.909 --> 00:50:13.989 to put up the house you know willing to sell 00:50:13.989 --> 00:50:16.489 sell the house that's what i mean that's what 00:50:16.489 --> 00:50:18.130 i mean if you want to talk about support and 00:50:18.130 --> 00:50:20.550 how i got lucky you know well just send to jack 00:50:20.550 --> 00:50:23.389 because i mean when you have the you know, the 00:50:23.389 --> 00:50:26.710 impression of the manly man, merchant seaman, 00:50:26.889 --> 00:50:29.750 you know, and then, you know, your son wants 00:50:29.750 --> 00:50:31.110 to go to drama school because I went to drama 00:50:31.110 --> 00:50:33.269 school for a year and I saw my parents' reaction. 00:50:33.690 --> 00:50:36.809 It was less than favorable. You know, you kind 00:50:36.809 --> 00:50:39.050 of immediately flashed to the Zoolander mind 00:50:39.050 --> 00:50:44.610 scene. So you had the polar opposite effect where 00:50:44.610 --> 00:50:46.349 your parents are willing to put their house up 00:50:46.349 --> 00:50:48.510 to put you through school. I think this is the 00:50:48.510 --> 00:50:49.849 thing where, you know, you've got to remember 00:50:49.849 --> 00:50:54.099 that I was named after the Western. So Shane, 00:50:54.219 --> 00:50:57.739 the Alan Ladd Western in 53. My dad is a Western 00:50:57.739 --> 00:51:01.000 nut. You know, he loves all that stuff. And movies 00:51:01.000 --> 00:51:03.719 when he was, I mean, he didn't perform. He's 00:51:03.719 --> 00:51:05.360 a great singer. He's a great crooner, but he 00:51:05.360 --> 00:51:11.440 didn't do anything theatrical. But movies all 00:51:11.440 --> 00:51:14.019 the time, you know, even in his Navy days and 00:51:14.019 --> 00:51:15.679 he's kind of, you know, setting up stuff and 00:51:15.679 --> 00:51:17.780 projectors and he still has like 16 millimeter 00:51:17.780 --> 00:51:20.650 projectors. He loves screening things. There 00:51:20.650 --> 00:51:23.309 is a correlation there. And I think, you know, 00:51:23.309 --> 00:51:26.489 but just to see, you know, your kid get infused 00:51:26.489 --> 00:51:29.030 about anything, you know, is from his perspective 00:51:29.030 --> 00:51:31.610 was like that's he's found something, you know. 00:51:31.610 --> 00:51:35.550 So and, you know, my mom, although she's not 00:51:35.550 --> 00:51:37.730 theatrical. Well, I say that. I mean, if she's 00:51:37.730 --> 00:51:40.630 got a few drinks down, she once reenacted the 00:51:40.630 --> 00:51:43.829 death scene of Bonnie Parker and Bonnie and Clyde 00:51:43.829 --> 00:51:49.059 in a restaurant. So I'm on the table. So, again, 00:51:49.179 --> 00:51:50.840 if you're looking for threads, maybe they're, 00:51:50.840 --> 00:51:54.500 you know, I've overlooked that. But I think and 00:51:54.500 --> 00:51:58.260 she believes she's a singer, but she's completely 00:51:58.260 --> 00:52:01.860 tone deaf. She would admit that. But that doesn't 00:52:01.860 --> 00:52:05.039 stop her bouncing it out, which I love. And in 00:52:05.039 --> 00:52:08.000 fact, I've got many four track studio recordings 00:52:08.000 --> 00:52:13.800 of her doing that after a Pinot Noir. You know, 00:52:13.820 --> 00:52:15.659 so those were the things they but they were willing 00:52:15.659 --> 00:52:17.880 to do that. And then so that was great. But of 00:52:17.880 --> 00:52:20.420 course, for me personally, you know, as a family 00:52:20.420 --> 00:52:24.380 home and it wasn't something that that was plaguing 00:52:24.380 --> 00:52:27.239 me. You know, I didn't want that to happen. It 00:52:27.239 --> 00:52:29.679 was a place that I like to go. You know, I would 00:52:29.679 --> 00:52:32.179 because I was going to have to move to London. 00:52:32.219 --> 00:52:34.179 But it was like, you know, that was the place 00:52:34.179 --> 00:52:36.179 I wanted to go and return and see my mom and 00:52:36.179 --> 00:52:37.559 dad. You know, I didn't want them to move in 00:52:37.559 --> 00:52:41.650 somewhere else. And so. It became a thing where 00:52:41.650 --> 00:52:45.329 we got the Drama Academy, Webber Douglas, got 00:52:45.329 --> 00:52:49.670 a scholarship lead and they sent me that. And 00:52:49.670 --> 00:52:52.949 it was like a scholarship for Cameron McIntosh, 00:52:52.949 --> 00:52:55.329 who's like the impresario behind a lot of the 00:52:55.329 --> 00:52:57.590 big, most of the West End musicals that people 00:52:57.590 --> 00:53:01.449 go and see to this day. You know, they had a 00:53:01.449 --> 00:53:04.090 scholarship. There was one male and one female 00:53:04.090 --> 00:53:08.050 bursary and it was up for grabs. It meant me 00:53:08.050 --> 00:53:10.070 going to the West End in the Albury Theatre, 00:53:10.230 --> 00:53:14.010 I think, and performing a couple of pieces there. 00:53:14.869 --> 00:53:19.309 And then, you know, with a whole bunch of people. 00:53:19.409 --> 00:53:21.429 And then in the afternoon, you would have to 00:53:21.429 --> 00:53:25.590 go and interview this huge banquet table of people 00:53:25.590 --> 00:53:27.469 I couldn't even see down the other end, you know, 00:53:27.510 --> 00:53:31.570 firing questions. And it was a really nervy day, 00:53:31.650 --> 00:53:32.769 you know, because it was a big break between 00:53:32.769 --> 00:53:35.130 those things. You perform your stuff and then 00:53:35.130 --> 00:53:37.070 it's just you hang around London for a while. 00:53:37.190 --> 00:53:39.929 And, you know, my dad was with me and we're sort 00:53:39.929 --> 00:53:43.030 of walking around and sitting on a load of, you 00:53:43.030 --> 00:53:45.650 know, just sitting on bench after bench, you 00:53:45.650 --> 00:53:49.510 know, and then we had this thing. And then it 00:53:49.510 --> 00:53:51.730 was two weeks, I think it was like two weeks 00:53:51.730 --> 00:53:54.150 later or something like that, that I got this 00:53:54.150 --> 00:53:56.550 thing through. They happened to be in France 00:53:56.550 --> 00:53:58.769 and they were with some friends having a little 00:53:58.769 --> 00:54:01.420 holiday break. And I got the call to say, you 00:54:01.420 --> 00:54:04.639 know, you don't have to do anything. Take the 00:54:04.639 --> 00:54:06.800 sign out of the garden thing out of the yard. 00:54:07.960 --> 00:54:09.599 They're paying for it all. They're paying for 00:54:09.599 --> 00:54:11.360 it all. And not only that, they paid me this 00:54:11.360 --> 00:54:15.559 really healthy maintenance for every semester 00:54:15.559 --> 00:54:18.179 or term, you know, that they were going to give 00:54:18.179 --> 00:54:20.900 me a decent grant that I could live, you know, 00:54:20.900 --> 00:54:23.460 because it meant London. And where Weber Douglas, 00:54:23.820 --> 00:54:25.920 I mean, they were right in the heart of Kensington. 00:54:26.079 --> 00:54:28.619 So if you know. that james you know it's like 00:54:28.619 --> 00:54:31.539 a prime zone one territory and so it's it's it 00:54:31.539 --> 00:54:35.519 again it's it ain't cheap so you so so it was 00:54:35.519 --> 00:54:37.360 a real eye -opener for me this sort of rustic 00:54:37.360 --> 00:54:40.360 kid going into there and landing there you know 00:54:40.360 --> 00:54:45.280 to do the to do the training and and uh but you 00:54:45.280 --> 00:54:48.920 know with that relief that my parents didn't 00:54:48.920 --> 00:54:50.440 have to do because they're still there to this 00:54:50.440 --> 00:54:51.679 day you know they're still in the same place 00:54:51.679 --> 00:54:54.119 you know so it's like a so i'm just so pleased 00:54:54.119 --> 00:54:57.300 that it all worked out in that way and um And 00:54:57.300 --> 00:55:02.340 I could do the training, you know, fairly relaxed. 00:55:02.579 --> 00:55:04.500 Although I say, you know, the training itself 00:55:04.500 --> 00:55:07.019 and what we had to do and get up to was pretty 00:55:07.019 --> 00:55:09.699 intense. You know, it was hardcore. And as I'm 00:55:09.699 --> 00:55:11.179 sure you would know in certain things that you 00:55:11.179 --> 00:55:16.579 have to do. And yeah, you know, deconstruction, 00:55:16.579 --> 00:55:19.119 deconstructing was their thing. And part of it 00:55:19.119 --> 00:55:22.579 was to see if you could. You know, just survive 00:55:22.579 --> 00:55:25.159 without necessarily being being built up. And 00:55:25.159 --> 00:55:26.860 I think that was a good exercise, actually. I 00:55:26.860 --> 00:55:28.599 mean, a lot of people at the time were like, 00:55:28.659 --> 00:55:31.639 this is sadistic. But, you know, I feel like 00:55:31.639 --> 00:55:36.099 there was it was a precursor to you sort of getting 00:55:36.099 --> 00:55:39.159 out there and facing up to a lot of rejection, 00:55:39.420 --> 00:55:42.139 you know. And how do you respond to that psychologically? 00:55:42.340 --> 00:55:46.420 You know, because people have different ways, 00:55:46.460 --> 00:55:48.900 even in rejection, people have different ways 00:55:48.900 --> 00:55:56.679 of. of handling it in terms of, you know, companies 00:55:56.679 --> 00:56:00.079 or individuals, you know, dispensing that upon 00:56:00.079 --> 00:56:02.739 you. There's good ways of doing it and there 00:56:02.739 --> 00:56:03.920 are bad ways of doing it and you're going to 00:56:03.920 --> 00:56:05.739 experience most of those, you know, and then 00:56:05.739 --> 00:56:08.340 how do you deal with it? How do you get on? How 00:56:08.340 --> 00:56:10.820 do you pick yourself up and go on and do that, 00:56:10.900 --> 00:56:13.960 you know, theatrically? So I felt like Drama 00:56:13.960 --> 00:56:18.639 Academy was good for that, really. And, you know, 00:56:18.679 --> 00:56:20.980 it was another great, the biggest thing about 00:56:20.980 --> 00:56:23.019 it all, and I think I'm probably talking too 00:56:23.019 --> 00:56:26.340 much without you coming in, but I think that 00:56:26.340 --> 00:56:30.400 the best thing about the Drama Academies, because 00:56:30.400 --> 00:56:35.219 I've met a lot of amazing actors, you know, female 00:56:35.219 --> 00:56:39.119 and male, all the way along this journey, is 00:56:39.119 --> 00:56:42.019 that the Drama Academy, the accredited academies, 00:56:42.019 --> 00:56:45.099 they're a really good platform for exposure. 00:56:47.019 --> 00:56:49.539 It's like having good agents or good management 00:56:49.539 --> 00:56:52.460 on the outside. You're going to get into the 00:56:52.460 --> 00:56:55.219 inner circle and see all the best stuff, you 00:56:55.219 --> 00:57:00.539 know. And with those accredited academies and 00:57:00.539 --> 00:57:04.300 schools, we were attended in our finals year 00:57:04.300 --> 00:57:07.300 for productions and showcases, you know, 90 % 00:57:07.300 --> 00:57:11.460 of the audience were industry. And I don't think 00:57:11.460 --> 00:57:14.619 anybody really didn't. I don't think there was 00:57:14.619 --> 00:57:20.000 anybody that. got out of there without being 00:57:20.000 --> 00:57:24.599 represented. It was that. I managed to get signed 00:57:24.599 --> 00:57:30.000 up a year early. Again, I was fairly relaxed 00:57:30.000 --> 00:57:32.059 about the last year because I knew what I was 00:57:32.059 --> 00:57:36.440 going to do. I knew I was in good hands. That 00:57:36.440 --> 00:57:44.239 was the thing. That really separated that just 00:57:44.239 --> 00:57:46.659 that platform that that ability to be exposed 00:57:46.659 --> 00:57:49.519 in front of the right people because there are 00:57:49.519 --> 00:57:52.280 there are many people doing doing great work 00:57:52.280 --> 00:57:55.420 james and nobody's seeing it you know so unless 00:57:55.420 --> 00:57:57.800 i put it on youtube i don't know but you know 00:57:57.800 --> 00:57:59.599 what i mean it's uh so that was good so that 00:57:59.599 --> 00:58:04.840 was my that was my uh academy experience I think 00:58:04.840 --> 00:58:06.380 I leapt forward there massively, didn't I? I 00:58:06.380 --> 00:58:07.860 leapt forward there. No, no, it was perfect, 00:58:07.960 --> 00:58:09.159 actually. It puts us exactly where we need to 00:58:09.159 --> 00:58:11.840 be, I think. So I think we graduated about the 00:58:11.840 --> 00:58:14.460 same time. Mine was a one -year diploma course. 00:58:15.539 --> 00:58:17.679 And, you know, so and then there was a parallel 00:58:17.679 --> 00:58:21.539 three -year acting class. And I'd gone to that 00:58:21.539 --> 00:58:23.579 one, I think I told you in our previous conversation, 00:58:23.760 --> 00:58:25.699 following a girl, which maybe is not the most 00:58:25.699 --> 00:58:29.719 powerful way. But so I came out the other side. 00:58:30.329 --> 00:58:33.409 um was using i think it was pcr the red kind 00:58:33.409 --> 00:58:35.110 of casting sheet that came around and there was 00:58:35.110 --> 00:58:36.969 a show called band of brothers that they were 00:58:36.969 --> 00:58:40.690 looking for people um and i and now as we have 00:58:40.690 --> 00:58:42.889 this conversation i realize that the only reason 00:58:42.889 --> 00:58:45.869 that you got the role and i didn't is because 00:58:45.869 --> 00:58:48.570 i am a fucking awful actor but that's the only 00:58:48.570 --> 00:58:50.550 separating point otherwise i would have smashed 00:58:50.550 --> 00:58:58.920 it Listen, the way you present yourself, I don't 00:58:58.920 --> 00:59:01.880 know, I beg to differ. I'm sure you got the chops. 00:59:02.239 --> 00:59:07.019 And it was just a case of, you know, what are 00:59:07.019 --> 00:59:09.019 the reasons? You know, there comes a point when 00:59:09.019 --> 00:59:11.539 you, I don't know, again, I'm leaping ahead here, 00:59:11.639 --> 00:59:13.940 but when it came to sort of picking the Belgian 00:59:13.940 --> 00:59:15.940 nurse, when it came to picking René Lemaire, 00:59:16.019 --> 00:59:20.400 I had the luxury of looking at some of the final 00:59:20.400 --> 00:59:23.860 tapes. The director let me see who was in the 00:59:23.860 --> 00:59:26.039 running. So it hadn't properly been cast, but 00:59:26.039 --> 00:59:28.840 you were down to like six or seven, if that. 00:59:30.380 --> 00:59:35.900 Every one of those. Tremendous. Amazing. You 00:59:35.900 --> 00:59:37.400 know, you get to that point and I don't know 00:59:37.400 --> 00:59:39.460 how many went up for it, but, you know, you get 00:59:39.460 --> 00:59:41.880 to that point. Everybody's good. How do you decide? 00:59:42.039 --> 00:59:45.230 I mean, you know. But Lucy Jean, who ended up 00:59:45.230 --> 00:59:47.789 playing her, was magnificent. And I really, really, 00:59:47.909 --> 00:59:51.650 she was the closest, resembling her as well, 00:59:51.690 --> 00:59:54.750 I think, that I remember. And she was spectacular. 00:59:55.090 --> 00:59:59.769 I love Lucy, but I love Lucy. But, you know, 00:59:59.849 --> 01:00:02.809 it's really, you know, it's really difficult. 01:00:02.949 --> 01:00:05.369 I don't know what they go on. I mean, it's, you 01:00:05.369 --> 01:00:08.789 know, there's so many, you know, you get to a 01:00:08.789 --> 01:00:11.349 certain point where you've got too much choice. 01:00:12.859 --> 01:00:15.920 So I'm always, you know, it comes down to whatever 01:00:15.920 --> 01:00:19.599 that is. You know, it's like me getting a place 01:00:19.599 --> 01:00:21.599 or winning a scholarship. You know, you just 01:00:21.599 --> 01:00:25.780 have to be hit at a certain point. And, you know, 01:00:25.800 --> 01:00:27.239 as long as you've prepped, you've put the work 01:00:27.239 --> 01:00:29.059 in and then you've got to have a little bit of 01:00:29.059 --> 01:00:31.619 luck, you know. So I think it's there's no getting 01:00:31.619 --> 01:00:36.789 away from that, you know. So, you know. Don't 01:00:36.789 --> 01:00:39.090 ridicule your acting ability, James. Trust me, 01:00:39.110 --> 01:00:41.829 my acting is terrible. I've got many, many people 01:00:41.829 --> 01:00:44.329 who testify for me. But when I was on that path, 01:00:44.590 --> 01:00:48.409 we had stage combat and stage combat. I excel 01:00:48.409 --> 01:00:51.809 that. And so that took me down the path of stunts. 01:00:51.809 --> 01:00:53.949 So that I will, you know, I will say in the stunt 01:00:53.949 --> 01:00:56.710 world, I think at the skill set that I have, 01:00:56.710 --> 01:00:58.590 you know, that was where I was good at. But no 01:00:58.590 --> 01:01:01.409 acting I am. Probably one of the – I mean, I've 01:01:01.409 --> 01:01:02.630 seen some movies where I'm like, oh, I could 01:01:02.630 --> 01:01:04.590 have probably been in that one. That was horrendous. 01:01:04.650 --> 01:01:09.570 But aside from that, like, good acting. It's 01:01:09.570 --> 01:01:12.250 just not my thing. And I tell people with fire 01:01:12.250 --> 01:01:13.869 service, you know, like, not everyone's supposed 01:01:13.869 --> 01:01:15.889 to be a firefighter. James Gearing is not supposed 01:01:15.889 --> 01:01:18.769 to be an actor. And I made that fully aware after 01:01:18.769 --> 01:01:21.989 a year of drama school. You know, I always try 01:01:21.989 --> 01:01:24.889 and be – you know, you've got to be – somehow 01:01:24.889 --> 01:01:27.010 in this profession, I feel like you've got to 01:01:27.010 --> 01:01:28.989 be motivated, you know, inspired by the good. 01:01:29.280 --> 01:01:32.019 obviously and that's easy but motivated by the 01:01:32.019 --> 01:01:34.239 bad because there's plenty of that going on you 01:01:34.239 --> 01:01:36.559 know and i don't begrudge anybody trying to make 01:01:36.559 --> 01:01:39.159 a a go of it in this industry you know it takes 01:01:39.159 --> 01:01:42.940 that takes a lot of courage you know so i so 01:01:42.940 --> 01:01:44.960 i'm not sort of saying they shouldn't but i'm 01:01:44.960 --> 01:01:46.920 just saying that there is this level you know 01:01:46.920 --> 01:01:48.780 things are getting made and you think how on 01:01:48.780 --> 01:01:51.659 earth did that happen how did that get green 01:01:51.659 --> 01:01:55.960 lit you know how are they doing that you know 01:01:55.960 --> 01:01:58.219 how are they being in it but you know there's 01:01:58.219 --> 01:02:01.400 all sorts of there's all sorts of political machinations, 01:02:01.420 --> 01:02:03.360 which I'm not going to go into now, but, and 01:02:03.360 --> 01:02:05.119 I don't want to seem like a bitter actor, but 01:02:05.119 --> 01:02:07.579 it's because like I say, I mean, I think if I 01:02:07.579 --> 01:02:10.639 see bad stuff, it's like, well, if they've got 01:02:10.639 --> 01:02:14.460 a place at the table, reserve me a seat. You 01:02:14.460 --> 01:02:15.960 know, I'm not asking to be at the head of the 01:02:15.960 --> 01:02:18.219 table, but I'm good enough to have it. If that's 01:02:18.219 --> 01:02:20.079 getting on, you know, that's kind of the thing. 01:02:20.159 --> 01:02:22.260 So then you go on and then hopefully something 01:02:22.260 --> 01:02:24.239 comes through and you go, yeah. You know, the 01:02:24.239 --> 01:02:27.380 training wasn't nothing, you know, and so you 01:02:27.380 --> 01:02:29.440 can go and you can go and play, you know, but 01:02:29.440 --> 01:02:32.219 it's a weird thing. You know, I think I think 01:02:32.219 --> 01:02:34.119 I've mentioned this to you before, but and this 01:02:34.119 --> 01:02:36.280 is not a great analogy. And I thought, but I'll 01:02:36.280 --> 01:02:38.639 throw it in there anyway. I feel like in this 01:02:38.639 --> 01:02:41.960 thing, it's like, you know, that that Victorian 01:02:41.960 --> 01:02:44.860 kid with his face pressed up against the glass 01:02:44.860 --> 01:02:47.639 of a toy store, toy shop, you know, and there 01:02:47.639 --> 01:02:49.820 are people playing in there. And you're just, 01:02:49.900 --> 01:02:51.679 you're desperate. You're seeing it happen. People 01:02:51.679 --> 01:02:53.800 are doing it. And you're thinking, oh, I'd love 01:02:53.800 --> 01:02:55.659 to play in there, you know. And then every once 01:02:55.659 --> 01:02:58.800 in a while, you know, a benign sort of shopkeeper 01:02:58.800 --> 01:03:00.320 will come in, open the door, get you out of the 01:03:00.320 --> 01:03:02.739 cold, allow you to play with a few things, and 01:03:02.739 --> 01:03:05.639 you hope that you play nicely. You hope you do 01:03:05.639 --> 01:03:08.800 your thing, you know. Sometimes you do. Sometimes, 01:03:08.900 --> 01:03:11.099 you know, you drop a few things and, you know, 01:03:11.139 --> 01:03:13.440 it didn't work out. But then, you know, you're 01:03:13.440 --> 01:03:15.849 ushered back out and you're. that working class 01:03:15.849 --> 01:03:17.829 kid from the sticks, James is just with his face 01:03:17.829 --> 01:03:19.789 pressed up against the glass again. And that's 01:03:19.789 --> 01:03:21.469 just kind of what the way it is in this profession, 01:03:21.650 --> 01:03:24.150 you know, unless you have a sort of a stellar 01:03:24.150 --> 01:03:25.969 career, but you know, the, the jobbing actors 01:03:25.969 --> 01:03:28.289 and voiceover people like myself, you know, that's, 01:03:28.289 --> 01:03:30.170 that's kind of what it is. But again, it comes 01:03:30.170 --> 01:03:34.050 back to that drama Academy thing and, and, and 01:03:34.050 --> 01:03:37.849 being able to sort of, I suppose, you know, is 01:03:37.849 --> 01:03:41.150 it having a raw hide or just being, you know, 01:03:41.980 --> 01:03:44.960 a muppet i don't know i mean one of a combination 01:03:44.960 --> 01:03:47.679 of both really just keep on keeping on a muppet 01:03:47.679 --> 01:03:53.159 with a raw hide there you go yeah i took away 01:03:53.159 --> 01:03:55.699 so much from that as well i think that's important 01:03:55.699 --> 01:03:58.320 my stepson did a firefighter mentorship program 01:03:58.320 --> 01:04:00.579 they have here and it was beautiful because he 01:04:00.579 --> 01:04:03.340 realized he didn't want to be a firefighter awesome 01:04:03.769 --> 01:04:05.510 Amazing. You took away some skills, I'm sure, 01:04:05.530 --> 01:04:07.210 that will serve him well in the future. And that's 01:04:07.210 --> 01:04:08.849 what I have. I mean, here we are having a conversation 01:04:08.849 --> 01:04:11.650 now. I'm sure some of the voice elements and 01:04:11.650 --> 01:04:15.369 speech elements and performance elements factored 01:04:15.369 --> 01:04:18.219 into... removing some of that anxiety from talking 01:04:18.219 --> 01:04:20.219 to other people you know regardless of their 01:04:20.219 --> 01:04:23.019 background fame status whatever so yeah i mean 01:04:23.019 --> 01:04:24.960 that's the thing i think just because maybe you 01:04:24.960 --> 01:04:27.780 didn't follow that natural path down a course 01:04:27.780 --> 01:04:30.139 or a class or a profession doesn't mean it was 01:04:30.139 --> 01:04:32.559 a waste you just have to take a step back and 01:04:32.559 --> 01:04:34.559 go okay i'll keep these bits you know you go 01:04:34.559 --> 01:04:36.320 in the toy shop i'm gonna keep this car and this 01:04:36.320 --> 01:04:38.840 ball but those dolls i don't need them anymore 01:04:38.840 --> 01:04:40.380 and i'm gonna and i'm gonna walk out and go press 01:04:40.380 --> 01:04:44.039 my face again yeah yeah yeah and i and it is 01:04:44.039 --> 01:04:46.539 amazing isn't it i mean you know I mean, you 01:04:46.539 --> 01:04:48.679 may have, you may well have done what you're 01:04:48.679 --> 01:04:51.320 doing now with, just by being in the, you know, 01:04:51.340 --> 01:04:53.880 fire service and paramedic life and all that 01:04:53.880 --> 01:04:56.099 kind of stuff. But there has to be something, 01:04:56.139 --> 01:04:58.179 I'm sure, within what you've done, you know, 01:04:58.179 --> 01:04:59.599 chasing the girl, but getting into that, all 01:04:59.599 --> 01:05:02.119 that other stuff that has enabled you, you know, 01:05:02.139 --> 01:05:05.559 to be able to be in this position, to be able 01:05:05.559 --> 01:05:07.820 to present a certain way, you know, and now, 01:05:07.940 --> 01:05:10.159 you know, with the more you're doing it, obviously 01:05:10.159 --> 01:05:13.280 it's, you know, you're a natural, you know, so 01:05:13.280 --> 01:05:16.900 it's like a, um it it's weird isn't it how things 01:05:16.900 --> 01:05:19.519 like that can can come through and and whether 01:05:19.519 --> 01:05:21.340 you sometimes just you know it's a subconscious 01:05:21.340 --> 01:05:23.599 thing almost you just you just it just happens 01:05:23.599 --> 01:05:26.739 and uh but it all has a place it all has a value 01:05:26.739 --> 01:05:32.559 i think um you know for sure and so yeah but 01:05:32.559 --> 01:05:37.119 i you know in in terms of yeah you know being 01:05:37.119 --> 01:05:39.219 on that show i think everybody went up for that 01:05:39.219 --> 01:05:41.880 show james Everybody. You're not one of those 01:05:41.880 --> 01:05:43.820 people that didn't get out, didn't make it. It's 01:05:43.820 --> 01:05:45.039 like everybody went up for it and everybody got 01:05:45.039 --> 01:05:48.000 it. No. I mean, there were so many that went 01:05:48.000 --> 01:05:50.019 up for it and didn't get it. I mean, I've got 01:05:50.019 --> 01:05:52.460 cousins that went up for it. I didn't even know. 01:05:52.579 --> 01:05:54.460 You know what I mean? You're not even an actor. 01:05:54.599 --> 01:05:56.300 What do you mean you went up for it? You know, 01:05:56.320 --> 01:05:58.519 went up for something in it. Well, if James Gearing 01:05:58.519 --> 01:06:03.510 could put his name in, I can too. But I mean, 01:06:03.510 --> 01:06:05.570 what an amazing project, though, on British soil. 01:06:05.750 --> 01:06:08.230 I mean, geez, you know, when it comes to film 01:06:08.230 --> 01:06:10.369 and we had no idea the magnitude of what it was 01:06:10.369 --> 01:06:12.650 actually going to be, but just something based 01:06:12.650 --> 01:06:16.329 on a war that was so prevalent at that time when 01:06:16.329 --> 01:06:18.750 we were younger, you know, in our family's history. 01:06:19.309 --> 01:06:21.710 I think it had everyone that was even remotely 01:06:21.710 --> 01:06:25.550 into drama excited. Yeah, I mean, my great aunt, 01:06:25.650 --> 01:06:28.210 I've got a family, a strange family, a strange 01:06:28.210 --> 01:06:30.980 really. I don't, not for any kind of weird. family 01:06:30.980 --> 01:06:33.179 politics or anything. It just happened. But I 01:06:33.179 --> 01:06:36.179 have two great aunts that they married GIs, you 01:06:36.179 --> 01:06:38.099 know, so they took off. And I think they're in 01:06:38.099 --> 01:06:42.820 the Santa Barbara area somewhere. And and I often 01:06:42.820 --> 01:06:45.820 think, you know, if only there was a sort of 01:06:45.820 --> 01:06:47.800 relationship there when I was doing it at the 01:06:47.800 --> 01:06:50.539 time, because that is obviously a prime resource 01:06:50.539 --> 01:06:53.440 to tap into, you know, if they were, you know, 01:06:53.440 --> 01:06:56.960 around. But, you know, I did I didn't have the 01:06:56.960 --> 01:07:00.760 luxury, although. We had many vets that were 01:07:00.760 --> 01:07:05.239 around, obviously, to do that at the time, which 01:07:05.239 --> 01:07:08.659 I think, you know, we wouldn't have the luxury 01:07:08.659 --> 01:07:11.039 to do the same sort of thing today. It would 01:07:11.039 --> 01:07:14.199 be a slightly different experience. I mean, we 01:07:14.199 --> 01:07:17.980 were very lucky back then. You know, my character, 01:07:18.079 --> 01:07:20.059 and again, I'm jumping ahead, I suppose, James, 01:07:20.179 --> 01:07:23.119 but, you know, my character of Doc, you know, 01:07:23.119 --> 01:07:26.030 was not alive. But it was great. you know we're 01:07:26.030 --> 01:07:27.889 only talking about a couple of years I think 01:07:27.889 --> 01:07:30.949 I think it was 98 at some point he passed away 01:07:30.949 --> 01:07:34.929 um and there was a great picture of him with 01:07:34.929 --> 01:07:37.010 Stephen Ambrose I think one of the sort of later 01:07:37.010 --> 01:07:40.989 reunions that that that Eugene did attend you 01:07:40.989 --> 01:07:42.750 know because I don't think he was a attending 01:07:42.750 --> 01:07:46.050 I don't think he was a I didn't I don't think 01:07:46.050 --> 01:07:47.969 he attended that many but certainly towards the 01:07:47.969 --> 01:07:51.190 end you know he he did and and um so there's 01:07:51.190 --> 01:07:54.139 this great picture of the two of them just chilling 01:07:54.139 --> 01:07:56.500 out you know talking and and then of course you 01:07:56.500 --> 01:07:58.980 know two years later we're sort of we're boot 01:07:58.980 --> 01:08:01.639 camping it getting ready for this for the shoot 01:08:01.639 --> 01:08:05.679 you know so um so that was a shame i mean that 01:08:05.679 --> 01:08:07.980 was that was just you know selfishly that was 01:08:07.980 --> 01:08:10.119 a shame for me you know because i saw some of 01:08:10.119 --> 01:08:13.920 the great uh partnerships that were kind of developing 01:08:13.920 --> 01:08:20.659 with actor and and real vet um uh you know elsewhere 01:08:20.659 --> 01:08:24.220 and just the extra ingredients that were able 01:08:24.220 --> 01:08:27.239 to be sprinkled upon what they were doing. You 01:08:27.239 --> 01:08:31.800 know, it wasn't it wasn't as it wasn't as though 01:08:31.800 --> 01:08:33.760 I completely missed out. I mean, obviously, people 01:08:33.760 --> 01:08:36.340 knew who my guy was. So they all had stories 01:08:36.340 --> 01:08:40.220 that they would relate to to me or to the actor 01:08:40.220 --> 01:08:42.939 that, you know, the actor that was playing them 01:08:42.939 --> 01:08:44.359 or whatever. And then the actor would come to 01:08:44.359 --> 01:08:47.140 me and Frank John Hughes and while Bill Garnier 01:08:47.140 --> 01:08:53.300 would say some stuff, you know. Ralph Spina, 01:08:53.380 --> 01:08:56.100 who was alive, he was Rose's assistant medic. 01:08:56.140 --> 01:08:59.960 He features Tony Devlin, plays him very well, 01:08:59.960 --> 01:09:05.659 I think, in Bastogne. Ralph was really good at 01:09:05.659 --> 01:09:08.199 being able to send me some stuff and newspaper 01:09:08.199 --> 01:09:11.039 clippings and pictures and just what the kind 01:09:11.039 --> 01:09:16.619 of job entailed at the time. That was invaluable. 01:09:17.760 --> 01:09:21.380 HBO had a great research team. uh that supplied 01:09:21.380 --> 01:09:25.739 a lot of production material i did end up calling 01:09:25.739 --> 01:09:31.560 up uh rose uh widow and that was uh you know 01:09:31.560 --> 01:09:33.500 who's this guy with a strange accent i'm not 01:09:33.500 --> 01:09:36.060 going anywhere near that you know and and i don't 01:09:36.060 --> 01:09:38.180 blame her i don't blame her for not coming anywhere 01:09:38.180 --> 01:09:40.180 near me i mean it was you know it seemed ridiculous 01:09:40.180 --> 01:09:42.239 at the time you know to sort of say hey there's 01:09:42.239 --> 01:09:44.739 this multi -million dollar whatever you know 01:09:44.739 --> 01:09:47.029 it's going to be it's going to be about you know 01:09:47.029 --> 01:09:48.770 your husband's going to be part of it and i'm 01:09:48.770 --> 01:09:51.109 going to be playing him and this is tom hanks 01:09:51.109 --> 01:09:52.770 and spielberg obviously people would know those 01:09:52.770 --> 01:09:55.449 but it's just you know it hadn't been done i 01:09:55.449 --> 01:09:58.909 don't you know to the scale on tv something like 01:09:58.909 --> 01:10:03.890 that you know um so you know i realized that 01:10:03.890 --> 01:10:06.250 that was a bit of a dead end but there were no 01:10:06.250 --> 01:10:08.270 hard feelings and i let it get on and it was 01:10:08.270 --> 01:10:11.409 just a case of you know building up a picture 01:10:11.409 --> 01:10:14.869 of of of the character and of the, I mean, it's 01:10:14.869 --> 01:10:16.489 weird calling him a character because it sounds 01:10:16.489 --> 01:10:18.630 like it's a fictional, I mean, to a certain degree, 01:10:18.729 --> 01:10:20.189 I guess, you know, they, they write it a certain 01:10:20.189 --> 01:10:24.170 way, but, um, let's just call him Doc, you know, 01:10:24.170 --> 01:10:28.010 so the picture of Doc and, and, and then, you 01:10:28.010 --> 01:10:29.850 know, working out how you were going to sort 01:10:29.850 --> 01:10:35.149 of, uh, uh, execute it. And I realized that the 01:10:35.149 --> 01:10:37.210 pre -shoot drinks that, you know, the budget 01:10:37.210 --> 01:10:39.130 for this thing was going to be off the, off the 01:10:39.130 --> 01:10:46.000 scale. And I think. The responsibility of, you 01:10:46.000 --> 01:10:48.119 know, playing a part and representing a family 01:10:48.119 --> 01:10:50.600 was one thing. But then obviously they're ploughing 01:10:50.600 --> 01:10:55.439 all of this money into it. You know, the pressure 01:10:55.439 --> 01:10:59.800 was there, I suppose. But weirdly, I mean, others 01:10:59.800 --> 01:11:01.699 will probably talk about that, you know, feeling 01:11:01.699 --> 01:11:05.399 that great pressure in that sense. But I didn't 01:11:05.399 --> 01:11:08.159 really. I don't know why. I don't know why I 01:11:08.159 --> 01:11:11.579 didn't. I felt the pressure doing the sort of 01:11:11.579 --> 01:11:15.539 700 auditions or whatever it was. I mean, we 01:11:15.539 --> 01:11:19.000 had a ton of those and it was not necessarily 01:11:19.000 --> 01:11:23.000 kind of bedded down who I was going to be initially. 01:11:23.159 --> 01:11:26.600 You know, we were all given all sorts of roles 01:11:26.600 --> 01:11:29.060 to sort of, you know, I think there were a couple 01:11:29.060 --> 01:11:35.039 of, like Nixon and Spears, a couple of the parts 01:11:35.039 --> 01:11:38.739 had, you know, some monologue type things in. 01:11:39.149 --> 01:11:41.449 which was a good way of just getting you to sort 01:11:41.449 --> 01:11:46.369 of, you know, play a scene. Not necessarily you 01:11:46.369 --> 01:11:50.210 were going to be that soldier, you know. They 01:11:50.210 --> 01:11:52.170 just wanted to see what you could do. And then 01:11:52.170 --> 01:11:56.210 they would triage out, you know. I do remember 01:11:56.210 --> 01:11:59.569 Doc, you know, it came early on and it stuck. 01:11:59.829 --> 01:12:03.130 So whatever I was doing in and around Doc, I 01:12:03.130 --> 01:12:06.710 would always end up reading something from him. 01:12:07.619 --> 01:12:09.979 and it never let up. You know, that just kept 01:12:09.979 --> 01:12:13.220 going on. There were a few detours along the 01:12:13.220 --> 01:12:19.960 way, but that was the one. But, yeah, you know, 01:12:19.960 --> 01:12:24.359 I've lost my foxhole, James, what we were talking 01:12:24.359 --> 01:12:26.180 about there. Well, I think we were initially 01:12:26.180 --> 01:12:29.319 going to lead into that, but that was beautiful 01:12:29.319 --> 01:12:31.239 because you gave some insight into, you know, 01:12:31.239 --> 01:12:33.659 what we're going to talk about. I would love 01:12:33.659 --> 01:12:36.520 to hear about, you know, You kind of touched 01:12:36.520 --> 01:12:37.960 on the audition process then, so you're reading 01:12:37.960 --> 01:12:40.800 other roles. You kind of got honed into Doc's 01:12:40.800 --> 01:12:43.899 role. Talk to me then about getting that position 01:12:43.899 --> 01:12:46.439 and then boot camp, because you talk about this 01:12:46.439 --> 01:12:49.420 crazy journey that drama school sent me. It ultimately 01:12:49.420 --> 01:12:53.170 ended up in Australia auditioning for... terminator 01:12:53.170 --> 01:12:56.930 2 to open a brand new theme park in japan and 01:12:56.930 --> 01:12:59.930 we went to a boot camp run by a guy called captain 01:12:59.930 --> 01:13:02.770 dale die who in my conversation after i was like 01:13:02.770 --> 01:13:04.590 oh you should have you you would have been great 01:13:04.590 --> 01:13:06.689 in band of brothers and i said before back then 01:13:06.689 --> 01:13:08.710 i was still somewhat blonde blue -eyed so i'm 01:13:08.710 --> 01:13:11.310 sure it would have been a nazi wasn't quite what 01:13:11.310 --> 01:13:13.289 i was looking for but i'll take it but regardless 01:13:13.289 --> 01:13:15.880 you know i got to meet the man who put you guys 01:13:15.880 --> 01:13:18.920 through boot camp um and ultimately i had him 01:13:18.920 --> 01:13:22.159 on the show he was episode 35 amazing conversation 01:13:22.159 --> 01:13:24.539 amazing insight into what you went through and 01:13:24.539 --> 01:13:27.939 then his wife julia as well came on so talk to 01:13:27.939 --> 01:13:30.100 me about that i mean you know you have all these 01:13:30.100 --> 01:13:32.180 actors you know none of you really know each 01:13:32.180 --> 01:13:34.619 other very well you're in this production that's 01:13:34.619 --> 01:13:37.180 exciting but as you said not really ever done 01:13:37.180 --> 01:13:41.220 before on television so walk me through getting 01:13:41.220 --> 01:13:43.720 the role and then the boot camp and then into 01:13:43.720 --> 01:13:48.500 production Well, that I mean, I can't remember 01:13:48.500 --> 01:13:50.260 meeting anybody from the cast that went on to 01:13:50.260 --> 01:13:52.300 be in it during the run of my auditions. And 01:13:52.300 --> 01:13:55.720 I think, you know, sometimes I try and keep you 01:13:55.720 --> 01:13:58.279 away from other people to make it just so like 01:13:58.279 --> 01:13:59.880 you feel like you're the only one up for it sometimes. 01:14:00.079 --> 01:14:03.439 I think this was too, too vast, too big for that. 01:14:03.539 --> 01:14:04.859 So there were definitely people that I remember 01:14:04.859 --> 01:14:06.720 seeing in waiting rooms and we're going in. But 01:14:06.720 --> 01:14:09.579 I can't really remember anybody during the phase 01:14:09.579 --> 01:14:12.680 of going back and going back again. I was doing 01:14:12.680 --> 01:14:15.529 a dinner theater. thing i was actually employed 01:14:15.529 --> 01:14:19.949 at the time of going up for the show and it was 01:14:19.949 --> 01:14:23.149 uh you know a very light -hearted sort of rompy 01:14:23.149 --> 01:14:25.710 comedy light high comedy it was like a neil simon 01:14:25.710 --> 01:14:29.970 -esque but not not necessarily that um and that 01:14:29.970 --> 01:14:33.430 was kind of good and i felt like that was that 01:14:33.430 --> 01:14:35.369 was it didn't get in the way in fact it helped 01:14:35.369 --> 01:14:37.449 immensely because it was you know i was working 01:14:37.449 --> 01:14:41.649 every night uh so i was keeping the machine oiled 01:14:42.359 --> 01:14:45.319 And so when I would come in for notes from the 01:14:45.319 --> 01:14:48.359 director, maybe to take on board to then play 01:14:48.359 --> 01:14:52.079 the show that night, you know, after the notes, 01:14:52.079 --> 01:14:53.920 I'd sort of go into the dressing room or go in 01:14:53.920 --> 01:14:56.739 somewhere, go into a space somewhere and look 01:14:56.739 --> 01:14:59.239 at the latest sides, pages to read that would 01:14:59.239 --> 01:15:01.819 be the audition piece for Band of Brothers, you 01:15:01.819 --> 01:15:03.720 know. And they were constantly being sort of 01:15:03.720 --> 01:15:06.920 given out and whatever as we were going on, you 01:15:06.920 --> 01:15:12.119 know. So it all helped. It all kind of. I felt 01:15:12.119 --> 01:15:14.460 like it all boded well to sort of going into 01:15:14.460 --> 01:15:17.460 the room and then delivering something. And at 01:15:17.460 --> 01:15:19.319 that age, I suppose, you know, I don't know. 01:15:19.500 --> 01:15:23.039 It's that old fearlessness. I just didn't, you 01:15:23.039 --> 01:15:26.199 know, there's something about the experience 01:15:26.199 --> 01:15:29.859 of you've just got to, the external blocks trying 01:15:29.859 --> 01:15:31.760 to block out all that. It's not about the work 01:15:31.760 --> 01:15:34.920 and doing the work because, you know, the self 01:15:34.920 --> 01:15:38.039 -belief isn't the thing that gets shifted around, 01:15:38.220 --> 01:15:41.930 but confidence can ebb and flow. If that makes 01:15:41.930 --> 01:15:45.010 any sense. And those external blocks and the 01:15:45.010 --> 01:15:48.649 pressure of the high production and this exec 01:15:48.649 --> 01:15:52.510 and this big casting name, and then you've got 01:15:52.510 --> 01:15:54.670 Tom Hanks and then you've got Spielberg, all 01:15:54.670 --> 01:15:56.489 of those things, not their fault. They're just, 01:15:56.569 --> 01:15:58.430 they're the names, you know, but you can, those 01:15:58.430 --> 01:16:01.810 kinds of things can get in your sphere and, and 01:16:01.810 --> 01:16:04.869 be not very helpful. It's nothing to do with 01:16:04.869 --> 01:16:06.510 the work and whether you think you can play the 01:16:06.510 --> 01:16:10.260 role, but it can sort of like, bump up against 01:16:10.260 --> 01:16:12.760 it and make it a bit turbulent, more turbulent 01:16:12.760 --> 01:16:15.720 than it needs to be. So there was a bit of that. 01:16:16.140 --> 01:16:18.680 That was an acting exercise in itself. But that's 01:16:18.680 --> 01:16:21.920 what I mean. That was kind of more of a pressure 01:16:21.920 --> 01:16:25.619 to get rid of that than when I was actually on 01:16:25.619 --> 01:16:28.939 set doing it. It's like now your butt is on the 01:16:28.939 --> 01:16:30.560 line because this is what's going to be presented 01:16:30.560 --> 01:16:33.680 to the world. I'm much more relaxed when it comes 01:16:33.680 --> 01:16:37.100 to being... on on thing on the set you know doing 01:16:37.100 --> 01:16:39.359 it with the actors and and when the heat is really 01:16:39.359 --> 01:16:42.899 on you know weird warped thing that but anyway 01:16:42.899 --> 01:16:50.720 so i end up doing several i end up getting detoured 01:16:50.720 --> 01:16:53.079 a little bit we went i read for something that 01:16:53.079 --> 01:16:55.659 i think i can i think i've said this before and 01:16:55.659 --> 01:16:59.119 and i think i can say this i mean it's been years 01:16:59.119 --> 01:17:02.140 but you know tom cruise was doing some sort of 01:17:02.140 --> 01:17:06.090 thing about west point And there was a point 01:17:06.090 --> 01:17:10.770 during my reading that I was given this thing 01:17:10.770 --> 01:17:13.069 that was in development. And I don't know whether 01:17:13.069 --> 01:17:15.550 he was going to produce, direct or both or whatever. 01:17:17.090 --> 01:17:19.390 And I started to read for one of the leads there. 01:17:19.529 --> 01:17:21.869 So completely not Band of Brothers related, but 01:17:21.869 --> 01:17:26.029 it seemed to be connected to the same people. 01:17:28.039 --> 01:17:31.140 I felt it went okay, that one as well. I was 01:17:31.140 --> 01:17:34.119 sort of in the zone then. But I did have that 01:17:34.119 --> 01:17:38.000 feeling like, oh, I don't want to be, hope this 01:17:38.000 --> 01:17:41.880 is not going to get in the way of what I'm going 01:17:41.880 --> 01:17:43.619 through with this particular project. Because 01:17:43.619 --> 01:17:45.100 this was a project that I was sort of falling 01:17:45.100 --> 01:17:48.939 in love with every time I was going in. And you 01:17:48.939 --> 01:17:52.300 get a feeling as an actor when things are close 01:17:52.300 --> 01:17:56.460 and that they may like you. And that's a good 01:17:56.460 --> 01:17:57.979 thing because that gives you confidence again, 01:17:58.119 --> 01:18:01.279 you know, to sort of deliver stuff. And then, 01:18:01.279 --> 01:18:04.359 so then, but then that happened and then I went 01:18:04.359 --> 01:18:06.779 on and, and of course it all led up to the big 01:18:06.779 --> 01:18:10.100 Athenaeum or Athenaeum hotel in Piccadilly Circus. 01:18:10.659 --> 01:18:14.300 I know that Frank and probably Ron and some others 01:18:14.300 --> 01:18:17.199 in LA, they had the experience of Spielberg being 01:18:17.199 --> 01:18:18.859 in the room and filming and all this sort of 01:18:18.859 --> 01:18:22.300 stuff. Well, we had Tom in London, full cast 01:18:22.300 --> 01:18:24.159 away mode, obviously. So I didn't, nobody recognized 01:18:24.159 --> 01:18:27.619 him. you know, at that point. But no Wilson left 01:18:27.619 --> 01:18:30.819 that behind. And so he was just he was just he 01:18:30.819 --> 01:18:34.420 was just there with a bunch of execs. Tony Toe 01:18:34.420 --> 01:18:37.020 is a very influential sort of partner, really, 01:18:37.060 --> 01:18:39.659 with with with him in the in the in the in the 01:18:39.659 --> 01:18:43.020 company. And he was Tony went on to not only 01:18:43.020 --> 01:18:46.579 was he a producer, but he directed as well an 01:18:46.579 --> 01:18:51.680 episode in the show. You know, that was that 01:18:51.680 --> 01:18:53.640 was the moment where it was solely Roe at that 01:18:53.640 --> 01:18:58.939 point. And, you know, doing it in front of everybody. 01:18:59.060 --> 01:19:01.359 And then I remember that there was a point where 01:19:01.359 --> 01:19:05.140 Tom got off. He had a satchel bag or something. 01:19:05.180 --> 01:19:09.079 He lifted it off himself and he just and I'm 01:19:09.079 --> 01:19:11.779 doing the scene. And he's handing me it during 01:19:11.779 --> 01:19:14.640 the scene. And I just took it and just carried 01:19:14.640 --> 01:19:16.819 on doing whatever I was doing. But then that 01:19:16.819 --> 01:19:19.439 became, I must have maybe tried, I was doing 01:19:19.439 --> 01:19:22.039 something perhaps, like miming something. So 01:19:22.039 --> 01:19:25.140 then he gave me the prop. And then I'm working 01:19:25.140 --> 01:19:27.880 with the prop, managed to work with the prop 01:19:27.880 --> 01:19:30.159 all right, I guess, and not bump into anything. 01:19:30.359 --> 01:19:37.439 And so I came away feeling like I did. I did 01:19:37.439 --> 01:19:39.180 all right. I did all right. You know, it's either, 01:19:39.260 --> 01:19:41.100 you know, and it's horrible feeling coming away 01:19:41.100 --> 01:19:43.739 from something and feeling like you didn't. That's 01:19:43.739 --> 01:19:46.180 awful. You know, there's, you know, especially 01:19:46.180 --> 01:19:47.760 if you're in something like this when you're 01:19:47.760 --> 01:19:50.960 going on and on. And I mean, it is quite unique 01:19:50.960 --> 01:19:53.460 that I went on so long for this, but, you know, 01:19:53.460 --> 01:19:54.800 there are other things I've been on where you 01:19:54.800 --> 01:19:56.300 feel like, oh, you're getting close, you're getting 01:19:56.300 --> 01:19:58.239 close and it doesn't. You know, you screen test 01:19:58.239 --> 01:19:59.680 for something, you get to that point. And I've 01:19:59.680 --> 01:20:01.800 been there before where you become, you know, 01:20:01.819 --> 01:20:03.340 you end up being the bridesmaid and you go, oh 01:20:03.340 --> 01:20:05.819 my God, no. And that didn't work out. But, you 01:20:05.819 --> 01:20:07.479 know, I mean, in those situations, I've sort 01:20:07.479 --> 01:20:09.560 of gone out of the room thinking, oh, my God, 01:20:09.619 --> 01:20:13.880 you know, that's that wasn't the one. And there's 01:20:13.880 --> 01:20:17.140 a sense it's like a Jedi feeling you have and 01:20:17.140 --> 01:20:19.960 it normally plays out. Sometimes you feel like, 01:20:19.960 --> 01:20:21.880 well, I don't know how I got that because that 01:20:21.880 --> 01:20:24.960 audition was terrible, but they're rare. Normally 01:20:24.960 --> 01:20:27.140 your instincts are all in tune, you know, and 01:20:27.140 --> 01:20:29.220 you can feel it. And but I came so I came away 01:20:29.220 --> 01:20:31.560 from that thinking, well, I did what I know I 01:20:31.560 --> 01:20:36.079 could do. and felt good about it. And I'd walked 01:20:36.079 --> 01:20:38.960 around London for miles aimlessly. I didn't know 01:20:38.960 --> 01:20:40.939 where I was going. I was just working. Well, 01:20:40.960 --> 01:20:42.000 that's a lie. I didn't know where I was going, 01:20:42.079 --> 01:20:43.720 but I was kind of, there was no destination. 01:20:44.119 --> 01:20:46.239 I was buzzing. I was just, the adrenaline had 01:20:46.239 --> 01:20:50.159 to go somewhere. And, but then I didn't, I can't 01:20:50.159 --> 01:20:51.739 remember. I don't know how long it was. It seemed 01:20:51.739 --> 01:20:55.800 like an age, you know, I was, I remember I was 01:20:55.800 --> 01:20:57.899 driving my dad's car, I think, or something like 01:20:57.899 --> 01:21:02.300 that. Agent called up and said, are you, You 01:21:02.300 --> 01:21:04.640 know, where are you? Are you sitting down somewhere? 01:21:04.779 --> 01:21:06.939 I said, well, I'm well, I'm in the you know, 01:21:06.939 --> 01:21:09.039 I was on the phone, obviously, but not allowed. 01:21:09.180 --> 01:21:11.140 But I sort of said, well, I'm driving. You know, 01:21:11.140 --> 01:21:13.020 she's going to pull over. Just get somewhere. 01:21:13.100 --> 01:21:16.239 Just pull over. And instantly I'm thinking she's 01:21:16.239 --> 01:21:18.659 got something good to tell me. And it's and I'm 01:21:18.659 --> 01:21:21.180 sure and I think it's about that. But I wasn't 01:21:21.180 --> 01:21:24.300 trying to let that I needed to pull over first 01:21:24.300 --> 01:21:27.720 and then, you know, sink the energy up to be 01:21:27.720 --> 01:21:31.600 able to absorb what she was going to say. And 01:21:31.600 --> 01:21:34.439 then she put out, in fact, in fact, it was the 01:21:34.439 --> 01:21:36.840 funniest thing she said to me. Didn't turn out 01:21:36.840 --> 01:21:38.600 to be true at all, but she, the funniest thing, 01:21:38.659 --> 01:21:43.920 the way she broke it to me was, okay, I'm parked. 01:21:44.119 --> 01:21:47.960 What's the news? She said, typical agent, really. 01:21:48.279 --> 01:21:53.119 You're rich. That was the first thing, which 01:21:53.119 --> 01:21:55.220 is, which was, let me, let me go on record now. 01:21:55.279 --> 01:21:57.279 It was not that. I mean, it was very well paid. 01:21:57.359 --> 01:22:01.710 They looked after me, but you know, I was a sort 01:22:01.710 --> 01:22:04.850 of like dinner theatre, couple of TV jobs. I 01:22:04.850 --> 01:22:07.529 was a broke actor. So in terms of it's all relative, 01:22:07.630 --> 01:22:11.090 my rich, you know. Richard Branson would be like, 01:22:11.109 --> 01:22:15.369 nah. Exactly. So that was the thing. That's how 01:22:15.369 --> 01:22:17.130 she broke it to me. So I knew what she was talking 01:22:17.130 --> 01:22:21.329 about. But then, of course, the part of the reward, 01:22:21.810 --> 01:22:24.630 and it was a reward, you know, was to be able 01:22:24.630 --> 01:22:28.670 to partake in this boot camp experience. You 01:22:28.670 --> 01:22:32.520 know, you had to do this thing. which again would, 01:22:32.579 --> 01:22:35.079 you know, when you, especially when you're a 01:22:35.079 --> 01:22:36.840 younger actor, you know, it's like, yeah, that 01:22:36.840 --> 01:22:39.380 shit, you know, is just part of it. And you want 01:22:39.380 --> 01:22:43.560 to just, you want to just be enveloped by it 01:22:43.560 --> 01:22:45.819 all. And you just want to commit wholeheartedly. 01:22:45.880 --> 01:22:47.680 Nothing else matters. You just want to get into 01:22:47.680 --> 01:22:52.119 it. And, but there was an issue. The fact that 01:22:52.119 --> 01:22:54.119 I still had this theater, I was still doing this 01:22:54.119 --> 01:22:56.159 play, you know, and part of the thing was that 01:22:56.159 --> 01:23:01.720 this bootcamp was still, two weeks more to run. 01:23:02.199 --> 01:23:09.420 So that was a little sticky, to be honest. But 01:23:09.420 --> 01:23:12.739 then the great Meg Lieberman and HBO, they sort 01:23:12.739 --> 01:23:14.319 of got involved and they were kind of sort of 01:23:14.319 --> 01:23:16.800 saying, hey, what are you thinking? You're not 01:23:16.800 --> 01:23:20.760 going to let this guy do it, which is a great 01:23:20.760 --> 01:23:23.260 opportunity and all this sort of stuff. And I 01:23:23.260 --> 01:23:25.319 think they flexed a bit of muscle. I think they 01:23:25.319 --> 01:23:27.460 may have... paid them something i don't know 01:23:27.460 --> 01:23:29.479 what it was i mean my role wasn't great it wasn't 01:23:29.479 --> 01:23:33.399 a huge role anyway so um you know i wasn't a 01:23:33.399 --> 01:23:37.600 massive miss but uh the director was sort of 01:23:37.600 --> 01:23:40.020 a friend of mine he directed me at my drama academy 01:23:40.020 --> 01:23:43.220 uh and i felt you know bad about that and he 01:23:43.220 --> 01:23:46.300 was a little sore but then obviously everything 01:23:46.300 --> 01:23:49.880 worked out and uh and i got to go to boot camp 01:23:49.880 --> 01:23:52.899 you know um but as i say i mean i didn't see 01:23:52.899 --> 01:23:56.319 anybody from from the cast during any of those, 01:23:56.319 --> 01:24:01.439 any of those rehearsals at Sori auditions. And 01:24:01.439 --> 01:24:06.880 then the first person I think I saw when I got 01:24:06.880 --> 01:24:10.180 to, when I was being picked up to go to bootcamp, 01:24:10.260 --> 01:24:12.020 I think it was Scott Grimes. I think Malarkey, 01:24:12.239 --> 01:24:15.279 Scott who played Malarkey, I think he was the, 01:24:15.279 --> 01:24:17.680 I think he was the very first person that I saw. 01:24:19.359 --> 01:24:22.279 And, you know, and then we, you know, we, we 01:24:22.279 --> 01:24:28.140 kind of assembled and, And then, you know, that's 01:24:28.140 --> 01:24:33.260 when Dale came into the picture and and his sort 01:24:33.260 --> 01:24:36.600 of, you know, the cadre and the people that he 01:24:36.600 --> 01:24:39.479 had with him in Warriors Inc. at the time was 01:24:39.479 --> 01:24:43.640 so, you know, Dale quite rightly gets the press. 01:24:43.840 --> 01:24:46.899 He's a great speaker. He's a great all rounder. 01:24:47.359 --> 01:24:49.939 But those people that he assembled, you know, 01:24:49.939 --> 01:24:54.460 and that. That was a talented manoeuvre as well. 01:24:54.579 --> 01:24:57.560 He picked the right people that could really 01:24:57.560 --> 01:25:06.300 rip you in half. But also, every one of them 01:25:06.300 --> 01:25:08.680 had great humour, I remember, and that was part 01:25:08.680 --> 01:25:11.779 of it. So if you needed to have a release of 01:25:11.779 --> 01:25:14.920 tension, they could do it with a turn of phrase 01:25:14.920 --> 01:25:17.500 or just some kind of slapsticky thing, I don't 01:25:17.500 --> 01:25:21.199 know, silly thing. that you felt like, oh, God, 01:25:21.279 --> 01:25:24.760 great, you are human, you know, not just this, 01:25:24.800 --> 01:25:28.279 you know, Terminator 2 type thing that was going 01:25:28.279 --> 01:25:31.659 to come for you and just, you know, destroy you. 01:25:31.720 --> 01:25:35.939 It was just, you know, so the balance was there. 01:25:36.380 --> 01:25:39.180 And I think for a lot of us, not all of us, but 01:25:39.180 --> 01:25:43.100 for, you know, a lot of us were into or played 01:25:43.100 --> 01:25:45.920 sports and did stuff. I was a big footballer 01:25:45.920 --> 01:25:48.439 at the time or soccer player, you know. Uh, so 01:25:48.439 --> 01:25:51.180 I, uh, the, the fitness side of things was not 01:25:51.180 --> 01:25:54.220 a, it was not an issue. I'm not a great, I'm 01:25:54.220 --> 01:25:56.319 more of a night, a night owl than an early bird. 01:25:56.359 --> 01:25:58.920 So getting up and doing those runs, you know, 01:25:58.920 --> 01:26:00.899 I had to get used to that, you know, so for, 01:26:00.939 --> 01:26:03.439 but maybe the first of the first mile of three 01:26:03.439 --> 01:26:07.560 or five was probably, I was seeing eyelids only 01:26:07.560 --> 01:26:11.039 and just, you know, I had a sense of where we 01:26:11.039 --> 01:26:13.300 were running and then I'd gradually open the 01:26:13.300 --> 01:26:17.500 eyes and, and, and complete the rest of it. you 01:26:17.500 --> 01:26:20.579 know i just i just felt like the way they handled 01:26:20.579 --> 01:26:22.579 it the way they orchestrated it you know you 01:26:22.579 --> 01:26:24.880 talk about all the sort of shot listing and the 01:26:24.880 --> 01:26:27.720 storyboarding and the logistical well even before 01:26:27.720 --> 01:26:29.520 that let's talk about the three years of research 01:26:29.520 --> 01:26:33.220 going into something like that all of that is 01:26:33.220 --> 01:26:37.460 just mind it's like my mind swims with all the 01:26:37.460 --> 01:26:40.760 logistical details but boot camp alone just the 01:26:40.760 --> 01:26:45.109 way they choreographed and coordinated I'm like, 01:26:45.149 --> 01:26:48.609 my God, this takes a level of organisation beyond 01:26:48.609 --> 01:26:53.949 anything that I would ever be able to do. I was 01:26:53.949 --> 01:27:02.909 just so impressed by that. They had German platoons 01:27:02.909 --> 01:27:08.050 in boot camp with us that we never saw, but they 01:27:08.050 --> 01:27:09.649 were trained separately. That's where you would 01:27:09.649 --> 01:27:12.229 have ended up, James. They would have been there. 01:27:12.699 --> 01:27:15.260 And then when we were doing operations, you know, 01:27:15.279 --> 01:27:17.460 some kind of, you know, to get this flag or defend 01:27:17.460 --> 01:27:20.539 this building or whatever, they would suddenly 01:27:20.539 --> 01:27:23.380 appear in uniform with the weapons of the period. 01:27:23.920 --> 01:27:26.479 And they would just be there. They would just 01:27:26.479 --> 01:27:29.979 appear from all over the place. And it was amazing. 01:27:30.100 --> 01:27:32.060 And then they'd go away again. We wouldn't see 01:27:32.060 --> 01:27:33.539 them. So we'd be doing all of this. You know, 01:27:33.579 --> 01:27:36.680 we're in the barracks. We're covering a lot of 01:27:36.680 --> 01:27:41.729 ground. Never saw anybody else. And I know. one 01:27:41.729 --> 01:27:44.210 of the sort of one of the trainers uh was involved 01:27:44.210 --> 01:27:48.949 who special forces actually i think was an sas 01:27:48.949 --> 01:27:52.149 guy and i've worked with his name's paul pawnby 01:27:52.149 --> 01:27:54.829 and i and i worked with paul later on a show 01:27:54.829 --> 01:27:57.470 called strike back out in south africa lovely 01:27:57.470 --> 01:28:01.090 lovely guy um but he was doing a lot of the training 01:28:01.090 --> 01:28:03.329 i think with or he was involved with with the 01:28:03.329 --> 01:28:08.390 sort of german outfit and um you know i so i 01:28:08.390 --> 01:28:10.840 i just thought the way that they the way that 01:28:10.840 --> 01:28:15.479 they did it was amazing. And, of course, you 01:28:15.479 --> 01:28:17.199 know, I'm learning about capillary bleeding, 01:28:17.500 --> 01:28:19.899 venous bleeding, arterial bleeding, learning 01:28:19.899 --> 01:28:23.279 how to dress, how to administer sulfur and the 01:28:23.279 --> 01:28:25.340 serrets and stuff like that in the classroom, 01:28:25.460 --> 01:28:28.479 a lot of that with Dale. And Dale, I think, you 01:28:28.479 --> 01:28:30.180 know, he always had this thing that he would 01:28:30.180 --> 01:28:33.359 say about, you know, you look after the medic, 01:28:33.439 --> 01:28:35.619 the medic looks after you. He had experiences, 01:28:35.720 --> 01:28:39.119 I think, himself, you know, being helped by medics 01:28:39.119 --> 01:28:43.100 in service. and um so he was a great teacher 01:28:43.100 --> 01:28:47.479 great nurturer uh but you know my part of my 01:28:47.479 --> 01:28:51.039 thing from for boot camp was to obviously we're 01:28:51.039 --> 01:28:53.720 all called part of it was we were we didn't know 01:28:53.720 --> 01:28:55.420 each other's names it was all about the character 01:28:55.420 --> 01:28:58.579 names and you all had to be you just you know 01:28:58.579 --> 01:29:02.640 fit into that role and be that role from boot 01:29:02.640 --> 01:29:05.640 camp you know which everybody did everybody embraced 01:29:07.210 --> 01:29:09.529 But part of my deal was after a day's activity 01:29:09.529 --> 01:29:12.590 and after chow, I'd have to go around and check 01:29:12.590 --> 01:29:15.649 on everybody. All the platoons, corker and boots, 01:29:15.869 --> 01:29:18.010 you know where I'm going with that. Killers, 01:29:18.010 --> 01:29:21.810 man. And the first few days, it's just, oh. And 01:29:21.810 --> 01:29:24.350 so the second skins were coming out. But after 01:29:24.350 --> 01:29:26.029 a while, people were starting to come to me with 01:29:26.029 --> 01:29:29.569 all sorts of ailments, James. Weird rashes. What 01:29:29.569 --> 01:29:34.430 am I going to do? There's a second skin. But 01:29:34.430 --> 01:29:37.289 one of the things that always makes me laugh, 01:29:37.409 --> 01:29:41.149 and I've said this before, but Ron Livingston, 01:29:41.210 --> 01:29:47.109 the great Ron, we had fish for dinner one night 01:29:47.109 --> 01:29:53.569 and he got this javelin of a fish bone stuck 01:29:53.569 --> 01:29:56.329 at the back of his throat and didn't know what 01:29:56.329 --> 01:29:59.760 to do with it. And then he came up with the idea, 01:29:59.880 --> 01:30:02.159 oh, well, you know, I'll go to Doc. He'll know 01:30:02.159 --> 01:30:07.279 what to do. So it was it was, you know, I got 01:30:07.279 --> 01:30:09.640 this sort of the flashlight, the torch there. 01:30:09.720 --> 01:30:13.119 And I looked at the back of his throat and indeed 01:30:13.119 --> 01:30:15.819 it was there. It was just awful looking. I was 01:30:15.819 --> 01:30:18.279 like, man, I just I didn't know I was not gagging 01:30:18.279 --> 01:30:25.239 all the time. So I ended up. I kind of created 01:30:25.239 --> 01:30:27.460 this Frankenstein contraption or sterilized. 01:30:28.120 --> 01:30:32.119 obviously. And I could add a trigger mechanism 01:30:32.119 --> 01:30:35.359 on one hand and add tweezers on the other. And 01:30:35.359 --> 01:30:37.279 I don't know what was the sort of like, it was 01:30:37.279 --> 01:30:41.100 some sort of pole device that was big enough 01:30:41.100 --> 01:30:44.260 so I could, and you as a paramedic, you're already 01:30:44.260 --> 01:30:47.100 having kittens, I can tell. But it's like, you 01:30:47.100 --> 01:30:51.539 know, I put this thing into his mouth to try 01:30:51.539 --> 01:30:54.319 and cross, because it was late, you know, it 01:30:54.319 --> 01:30:55.779 was really late. There was nowhere to go. We 01:30:55.779 --> 01:30:57.949 were in the middle of nowhere. And I'm just I'm 01:30:57.949 --> 01:31:00.609 trying to get this thing out. And he's by this 01:31:00.609 --> 01:31:02.229 point, he is gagging. And I'm sort of pulling 01:31:02.229 --> 01:31:05.930 out and going back in. And I'm like, he's not 01:31:05.930 --> 01:31:09.109 giving it a thought. I'm not giving it a thought. 01:31:09.210 --> 01:31:11.689 It's just like there's a job to be done. Nix 01:31:11.689 --> 01:31:14.489 is in trouble. Let's get this taken care of. 01:31:15.170 --> 01:31:18.310 And and lo and behold, we did. I mean, it was, 01:31:18.310 --> 01:31:21.489 you know, it wasn't pleasant, but we got it. 01:31:21.550 --> 01:31:25.399 We got it out. And, you know, he. he lived to 01:31:25.399 --> 01:31:27.779 see another day and i often joke about the fact 01:31:27.779 --> 01:31:29.119 that it could it could have been the other way 01:31:29.119 --> 01:31:31.619 and lament we could have been lamenting all the 01:31:31.619 --> 01:31:33.920 work that we lost yeah i killed i killed the 01:31:33.920 --> 01:31:35.720 kid from general ben that's not something you 01:31:35.720 --> 01:31:40.380 want on your resume you know and he had video 01:31:40.380 --> 01:31:42.220 diaries to shoot you know so that wasn't going 01:31:42.220 --> 01:31:47.680 to be you know uh a great thing but um so you 01:31:47.680 --> 01:31:49.979 know that was part of my package to do to do 01:31:49.979 --> 01:31:52.359 that but we were all kind of it was it was an 01:31:52.359 --> 01:31:54.420 amazing thing to sort of it served its purpose 01:31:54.420 --> 01:31:58.079 in terms of you know your your training for that 01:31:58.079 --> 01:32:03.260 period to soldier for that period but you're 01:32:03.260 --> 01:32:07.159 also bonding and you're ironing out all the kinks 01:32:07.159 --> 01:32:09.060 obviously you know you're making all the mistakes 01:32:09.060 --> 01:32:13.810 you can there uh but you know and they were sort 01:32:13.810 --> 01:32:15.689 of throwing out promotions and this that and 01:32:15.689 --> 01:32:17.770 the other as we were going on you know and that's 01:32:17.770 --> 01:32:19.729 you know damien was kind of having that to go 01:32:19.729 --> 01:32:25.590 through all that stuff and um you know the purpose 01:32:25.590 --> 01:32:28.550 the main purpose was just to to create that that 01:32:28.550 --> 01:32:33.029 that band of brothers feel and and i think you 01:32:33.029 --> 01:32:36.069 know just in terms of the camaraderie the commitment 01:32:36.069 --> 01:32:39.989 to the cause you know super super talented and 01:32:39.989 --> 01:32:42.609 I haven't been around pound for pound, you know, 01:32:42.609 --> 01:32:46.829 uh, actors of that caliber as many as that, you 01:32:46.829 --> 01:32:48.810 know, ever since, you know, it's just, it's just, 01:32:48.850 --> 01:32:52.350 you are by the very nature of being around those 01:32:52.350 --> 01:32:54.329 people, you're, you sort of are elevated yourself. 01:32:54.449 --> 01:32:56.609 And that was a, you'd like to think a two way 01:32:56.609 --> 01:32:58.149 street, you know, everybody was kind of, there's 01:32:58.149 --> 01:33:01.369 no, I didn't see, uh, any ego involved because 01:33:01.369 --> 01:33:05.949 of the nature of what it was, you know? Um, so. 01:33:07.369 --> 01:33:11.930 By the time we finished that up, which was a 01:33:11.930 --> 01:33:16.770 great sense of achievement, by the time we got 01:33:16.770 --> 01:33:21.430 to set, we were pretty damn tight. It was a really 01:33:21.430 --> 01:33:25.829 good feeling to go into day one. You're going 01:33:25.829 --> 01:33:28.149 to day one on other things, maybe. Maybe you've 01:33:28.149 --> 01:33:31.029 had a table read, so you've met people then. 01:33:31.909 --> 01:33:34.550 You do your bit and say hi and whatever, and 01:33:34.550 --> 01:33:36.189 have a bit of a laugh and joke that afternoon. 01:33:37.260 --> 01:33:38.880 And then you're going away and then you're turning 01:33:38.880 --> 01:33:41.119 up on set. You know, it's time to maybe do a 01:33:41.119 --> 01:33:42.720 little bit of rehearsal if you're lucky. But, 01:33:42.800 --> 01:33:45.699 you know, you're doing it. You know, we had that 01:33:45.699 --> 01:33:47.520 experience. And I know there were others that 01:33:47.520 --> 01:33:50.119 came in to play later on. But, you know, for 01:33:50.119 --> 01:33:53.079 the core of us to have that initial thing was 01:33:53.079 --> 01:33:55.699 a great springboard, a great stepping stone, 01:33:55.760 --> 01:33:59.300 a great foundation to go on and really hit the 01:33:59.300 --> 01:34:02.279 ground running, you know, which I think we all 01:34:02.279 --> 01:34:06.489 did. When I spoke to Dale, one of the most interesting 01:34:06.489 --> 01:34:09.069 stories, and I could relate so much because we 01:34:09.069 --> 01:34:12.590 use that same exact technique in a good fire 01:34:12.590 --> 01:34:14.670 department. You make it awful. You bring the 01:34:14.670 --> 01:34:16.529 men and women together. And by the time you leave, 01:34:16.609 --> 01:34:18.390 it's a bond that will stay through your whole 01:34:18.390 --> 01:34:22.149 career. But he told of Matt Damon being kept 01:34:22.149 --> 01:34:24.670 away from the rest of the cast during that boot 01:34:24.670 --> 01:34:27.869 camp. So talk to me about David Schwimmer, because 01:34:27.869 --> 01:34:31.590 clearly from watching the show, he and I love 01:34:31.590 --> 01:34:34.020 that quote, you salute. The rank, not the man. 01:34:34.260 --> 01:34:36.520 I've used that many times in my career in the 01:34:36.520 --> 01:34:39.720 fire service. So talk to me about how that factored 01:34:39.720 --> 01:34:44.140 into your experience. Well, I think it was a 01:34:44.140 --> 01:34:48.380 quirky little device. I mean, he had a knee injury, 01:34:48.500 --> 01:34:50.680 in quotations. I don't know. I don't know what 01:34:50.680 --> 01:34:54.140 the reality of that was. But he did about a day, 01:34:54.220 --> 01:34:56.699 if that. I can't remember now. And they pulled 01:34:56.699 --> 01:34:59.920 him out of it. And then they returned him later 01:34:59.920 --> 01:35:04.920 on. So he was kind of... You know, other fellas 01:35:04.920 --> 01:35:07.659 might know a bit more about this, you know, whether 01:35:07.659 --> 01:35:09.439 there was some sort of genuine thing and HBO 01:35:09.439 --> 01:35:11.960 got like they were, you know, they didn't want 01:35:11.960 --> 01:35:15.479 to see the star man get injured or whether it 01:35:15.479 --> 01:35:18.560 was a device by Dale and such, you know, to sort 01:35:18.560 --> 01:35:21.159 of like create that thing. But it did have an 01:35:21.159 --> 01:35:22.819 effect, I suppose. It did have a thing, you know. 01:35:23.380 --> 01:35:26.039 But I wouldn't say, you know, with all reports 01:35:26.039 --> 01:35:28.979 of the real Sobel and the real kind of feelings 01:35:28.979 --> 01:35:32.010 of the men. even though he really you know did 01:35:32.010 --> 01:35:34.890 an incredible job in terms of his part in creating 01:35:34.890 --> 01:35:37.810 this this this legendary easy company you know 01:35:37.810 --> 01:35:41.170 the actual that kind of that animosity that none 01:35:41.170 --> 01:35:44.189 of us felt that i don't think really i i certainly 01:35:44.189 --> 01:35:47.829 didn't not not with david in fact so there may 01:35:47.829 --> 01:35:49.630 have been that if anything we would be mocking 01:35:49.630 --> 01:35:51.930 him and ridiculing him for missing all the the 01:35:51.930 --> 01:35:54.289 stuff you know so you'd be you know hack on him 01:35:54.289 --> 01:35:58.720 for that um but it wasn't you know, it wasn't 01:35:58.720 --> 01:36:00.819 in a, in a, in a nasty way or anything. In fact, 01:36:00.880 --> 01:36:02.359 you know, a lot of the time when David was in 01:36:02.359 --> 01:36:05.279 town, we'd, you know, we'd go out and, you know, 01:36:05.279 --> 01:36:08.500 it was a really, I remember one night, you know, 01:36:08.539 --> 01:36:11.579 we were out with him and he, you know, obviously 01:36:11.579 --> 01:36:13.539 had the cap on and he was doing his stuff, but 01:36:13.539 --> 01:36:16.060 he was impossible to, at that point with the 01:36:16.060 --> 01:36:19.800 friends fame, you know, it was really, he could 01:36:19.800 --> 01:36:22.119 not, his physicality, everything about him. I 01:36:22.119 --> 01:36:23.659 mean, we went to some ridiculous thing on the 01:36:23.659 --> 01:36:25.859 embankment. It was some sort of bar club thing. 01:36:27.580 --> 01:36:32.439 and near the Thames. And, you know, it was, you 01:36:32.439 --> 01:36:35.560 know, we had about 10 minutes of just, you know, 01:36:35.579 --> 01:36:37.479 having a drink together. And then we were swarmed 01:36:37.479 --> 01:36:40.279 and we would just, it was just ridiculous, you 01:36:40.279 --> 01:36:41.720 know, so we had to go, we had to get out of there. 01:36:41.819 --> 01:36:44.920 And, but so outside of it, you know, outside 01:36:44.920 --> 01:36:47.399 of it, once we, bootcamp was, you know, done, 01:36:47.560 --> 01:36:49.819 I think, you know, it was, it was nothing, there 01:36:49.819 --> 01:36:52.399 was no problem, you know, but I thought it was 01:36:52.399 --> 01:36:55.060 a pretty nice way to, for him psychologically. 01:36:56.860 --> 01:37:00.140 to kind of have that detachment, uh, to come 01:37:00.140 --> 01:37:03.479 in and not have any sort of, you know, emotional 01:37:03.479 --> 01:37:05.819 connection or bond with, with anybody really, 01:37:05.939 --> 01:37:10.119 you know, uh, doing the work, doing, doing to 01:37:10.119 --> 01:37:13.520 play. So, you know, um, uh, but as I say, you 01:37:13.520 --> 01:37:16.420 know, yeah, now outside of that, uh, you know, 01:37:16.439 --> 01:37:19.359 we, we would see him and, um, at dinner or drink 01:37:19.359 --> 01:37:23.439 or whatever. And, uh, you know, the same thing 01:37:23.439 --> 01:37:26.539 was done for, for the replacements that would 01:37:26.539 --> 01:37:29.500 come in. You know, a lot of them, the brief was, 01:37:29.819 --> 01:37:32.220 you know, the cadre and Dale would sort of say, 01:37:32.260 --> 01:37:34.159 look, they haven't gone what you've gone through. 01:37:34.300 --> 01:37:35.760 And if you think about what Easy Company went 01:37:35.760 --> 01:37:38.239 through and Takoa and going through Normandy 01:37:38.239 --> 01:37:40.699 and, you know, all this kind of stuff. And now, 01:37:40.760 --> 01:37:42.680 you know, you reach Eindhoven or whatever and 01:37:42.680 --> 01:37:44.600 you get these replacements. They hadn't been 01:37:44.600 --> 01:37:47.500 through that, not with you, you know. Now there's 01:37:47.500 --> 01:37:50.579 a thing. And that was obviously a thing, a genuine 01:37:50.579 --> 01:37:52.640 thing, you know, that people like Heffron or 01:37:52.640 --> 01:37:58.109 Shifty Powers would talk about. And so they were 01:37:58.109 --> 01:38:00.750 planting that seed as well for us to sort of, 01:38:00.750 --> 01:38:03.909 you know, have a bit, maybe a bit more standoffish 01:38:03.909 --> 01:38:06.189 or a bit more, have a bit more of an edge around 01:38:06.189 --> 01:38:07.949 these guys that haven't been and gone through 01:38:07.949 --> 01:38:10.970 what you've done, you know, which was fine. And 01:38:10.970 --> 01:38:12.630 a lot of people, that was, you know, there was 01:38:12.630 --> 01:38:18.920 a methodical way of approach to that. sort of 01:38:18.920 --> 01:38:21.020 worked i suppose in some senses but even that 01:38:21.020 --> 01:38:23.140 i felt like it was like a half measure for me 01:38:23.140 --> 01:38:26.699 because i was always you know it goes back to 01:38:26.699 --> 01:38:29.939 that thing about you know i always just felt 01:38:29.939 --> 01:38:32.000 like uh because there were a few people that 01:38:32.000 --> 01:38:33.920 were suddenly really taking it personally i remember 01:38:33.920 --> 01:38:36.460 and i'm like listen this is part of the thing 01:38:36.460 --> 01:38:37.899 because you know you want to you want an actor 01:38:37.899 --> 01:38:41.680 to be ultimately confident doing the work um 01:38:41.680 --> 01:38:45.060 and and and to feel like there isn't something 01:38:45.060 --> 01:38:47.239 that's actually personal that's outside of the 01:38:47.239 --> 01:38:49.159 work that they're thinking wait a minute what's 01:38:49.159 --> 01:38:50.760 what's happening here what did i do what did 01:38:50.760 --> 01:38:55.319 i say so i felt like then you know call me a 01:38:55.319 --> 01:38:57.300 whistleblower james i don't know but i just felt 01:38:57.300 --> 01:38:59.079 like there was some some moments i had to go 01:38:59.079 --> 01:39:01.380 to when when people were you know certain actors 01:39:01.380 --> 01:39:03.939 i was like this isn't you this isn't you this 01:39:03.939 --> 01:39:05.859 is part of the thing you know this is the way 01:39:05.859 --> 01:39:09.520 and try to explain the history of it in in the 01:39:09.520 --> 01:39:13.199 reality of it you know what did happen so if 01:39:13.199 --> 01:39:14.840 you get any of that that's all part of it but 01:39:14.840 --> 01:39:17.810 then you know maybe feed that in and, and, and, 01:39:17.810 --> 01:39:20.689 you know, and you'll be able to play something, 01:39:20.729 --> 01:39:24.770 you know? So I don't know. But I didn't, I didn't 01:39:24.770 --> 01:39:26.829 necessarily think it was a bad idea as well. 01:39:26.949 --> 01:39:28.510 I mean, there was that, there was a sort of middle 01:39:28.510 --> 01:39:32.770 ground there somewhere. But, you know, all of 01:39:32.770 --> 01:39:34.569 these techniques were interesting. I felt like 01:39:34.569 --> 01:39:37.829 there were, you know, filmmaking in general, 01:39:37.890 --> 01:39:39.729 you know, or training, whatever. There's always, 01:39:39.770 --> 01:39:42.409 there's always that, there's always those little 01:39:42.409 --> 01:39:47.920 devices that. and little enablers that you're 01:39:47.920 --> 01:39:52.840 given and that you can learn from that will be 01:39:52.840 --> 01:39:54.399 able to give you just that little extra percent, 01:39:54.479 --> 01:39:57.739 which I think, you know, when we, when it came 01:39:57.739 --> 01:39:59.899 to doing the work, I would say most more often 01:39:59.899 --> 01:40:02.819 than not, they were the right things to listen 01:40:02.819 --> 01:40:09.420 to and to do. And you know yeah, they were, they 01:40:09.420 --> 01:40:11.760 were, they were, they were allies to the process. 01:40:11.800 --> 01:40:14.800 Yeah. Well, it definitely worked on screen, 100%. 01:40:14.800 --> 01:40:16.840 Like, you know, as you said with Sobol, you could 01:40:16.840 --> 01:40:18.520 feel it. You could feel it through the screen. 01:40:18.619 --> 01:40:20.699 And then with the replacements, some of the animosity, 01:40:20.939 --> 01:40:24.000 you know, you could feel that too. And I saw 01:40:24.000 --> 01:40:26.159 it when Dale, you know, when we went through 01:40:26.159 --> 01:40:28.020 the bootcamp, the original cast in Japan, and 01:40:28.020 --> 01:40:29.640 then people started coming through. There was 01:40:29.640 --> 01:40:32.880 a second wave about a year later. And I remember 01:40:32.880 --> 01:40:35.119 feeling that in myself. Like, yeah, because some 01:40:35.119 --> 01:40:36.899 people came from other places and, you know. 01:40:37.449 --> 01:40:39.329 for lack of a better word, very arrogant. And 01:40:39.329 --> 01:40:40.789 you're like, you haven't earned the right to 01:40:40.789 --> 01:40:43.609 be arrogant here. You know what I mean? And then 01:40:43.609 --> 01:40:45.489 when you look at the fire service, which is the 01:40:45.489 --> 01:40:49.109 other thing that I know, as a probationary firefighter, 01:40:49.109 --> 01:40:51.189 you know nothing. As a probationary firefighter 01:40:51.189 --> 01:40:52.770 that actually does know other stuff, but you've 01:40:52.770 --> 01:40:54.569 come to a new fire department, you have to have 01:40:54.569 --> 01:40:58.350 humility as well. Because when in reality, without 01:40:58.350 --> 01:41:01.449 being dramatic now, lives actually depend on 01:41:01.449 --> 01:41:04.689 your performance. You can't walk into a new fire 01:41:04.689 --> 01:41:06.729 department and say, everyone, you have to trust 01:41:06.729 --> 01:41:09.329 me implicitly because I've never done this before 01:41:09.329 --> 01:41:11.050 or I've done this for five years or 10 years 01:41:11.050 --> 01:41:13.289 or whatever. You have to build that trust. So 01:41:13.289 --> 01:41:15.170 I think that that process, whether it was by 01:41:15.170 --> 01:41:17.449 accident or deliberate, I'm guessing it was probably 01:41:17.449 --> 01:41:19.729 deliberate. And of course, like you said, no 01:41:19.729 --> 01:41:23.090 animosity to the actor, but the acting process, 01:41:23.430 --> 01:41:26.770 I think by accident or deliberate, it worked 01:41:26.770 --> 01:41:29.869 so, so well. And it jumped out at me on screen. 01:41:29.909 --> 01:41:31.810 I'm sure members of the military and law enforcement 01:41:31.810 --> 01:41:34.680 did as well. Yeah. Well, I'm glad. I'm glad. 01:41:34.819 --> 01:41:38.439 I mean, I think it's, yeah, it was such an important 01:41:38.439 --> 01:41:41.619 piece to portray. And I think, you know, the 01:41:41.619 --> 01:41:43.279 vets themselves, as I said, you know, talked 01:41:43.279 --> 01:41:46.239 a lot about that type of thing. And some of them, 01:41:46.260 --> 01:41:48.100 I think it may be Shifty Powers. I remember the 01:41:48.100 --> 01:41:50.399 real Shifty Powers talking about how he didn't, 01:41:50.399 --> 01:41:54.119 he just didn't want to know the replacements 01:41:54.119 --> 01:41:56.619 because, you know, he didn't want to see a young, 01:41:56.699 --> 01:42:04.710 you know, green soldier kind of just. buy it. 01:42:04.789 --> 01:42:07.350 He didn't want to see anybody. He didn't want 01:42:07.350 --> 01:42:14.329 to have that situation where they're gone in 01:42:14.329 --> 01:42:18.729 no time flat. His distance from new people coming 01:42:18.729 --> 01:42:28.500 in was deliberate for those reasons. In the script, 01:42:28.720 --> 01:42:30.859 in Bastogne, you know, it's not necessarily, 01:42:31.140 --> 01:42:36.399 well, Rowe does this to replacements, he does 01:42:36.399 --> 01:42:39.260 it to Heffron, but he does it to most of the 01:42:39.260 --> 01:42:41.699 others, even the Decoa men. You know, we're playing 01:42:41.699 --> 01:42:45.539 that idea of not using nicknames, sort of keeping 01:42:45.539 --> 01:42:49.460 some kind of distance psychologically, you know, 01:42:49.479 --> 01:42:52.239 not getting too close because he knows that chances 01:42:52.239 --> 01:42:53.819 are he's going to have to try and save them, 01:42:53.859 --> 01:42:58.409 you know, at some point. and and the chances 01:42:58.409 --> 01:43:01.029 are he may not be able to so it's it's like uh 01:43:01.029 --> 01:43:05.850 so we kind of try to highlight some of that going 01:43:05.850 --> 01:43:09.149 on um in a different way because obviously you 01:43:09.149 --> 01:43:11.449 know roe was there from the beginning but it 01:43:11.449 --> 01:43:14.270 was uh i thought that was an interesting thing 01:43:14.270 --> 01:43:18.609 to to look at um as well as things like you know 01:43:18.609 --> 01:43:21.649 combat fatigue which we tried to kind of touch 01:43:21.649 --> 01:43:25.510 on as well and and and um i think that was the 01:43:25.510 --> 01:43:27.960 thing with all of our With the script, it was 01:43:27.960 --> 01:43:29.619 well -researched and well -written by all the 01:43:29.619 --> 01:43:34.260 people involved. You know, we did have that added 01:43:34.260 --> 01:43:37.979 extra of having vets either on the other end 01:43:37.979 --> 01:43:40.539 of the line or with us, literally traveling with 01:43:40.539 --> 01:43:45.319 us, and they're on set. So, you know, there's 01:43:45.319 --> 01:43:49.000 the validation. Did this happen? Yeah, they go, 01:43:49.159 --> 01:43:51.119 you know, that's pretty spot on, you know, or 01:43:51.119 --> 01:43:55.399 that's a crack of shit. And they go on and go 01:43:55.399 --> 01:43:57.439 on and tell you how it was done, you know, or 01:43:57.439 --> 01:43:59.600 whether you would say that or not, you know, 01:43:59.600 --> 01:44:02.020 so, so that was great. It was a great source 01:44:02.020 --> 01:44:06.699 of confidence again. You know, and you get to 01:44:06.699 --> 01:44:08.199 a, when you get to that level of confidence and 01:44:08.199 --> 01:44:10.399 it's not being overconfident, you know, you need 01:44:10.399 --> 01:44:12.539 that thing that's going to be able to relax you 01:44:12.539 --> 01:44:14.300 enough to forget about everything. You throw 01:44:14.300 --> 01:44:16.880 it, everything away. You literally forget about 01:44:16.880 --> 01:44:21.340 it, play the moments. But those moments are golden 01:44:21.340 --> 01:44:23.949 when everything is. uh when the homework's been 01:44:23.949 --> 01:44:27.510 done you know uh because you're not floundering 01:44:27.510 --> 01:44:30.270 then you're not floundering if the homework is 01:44:30.270 --> 01:44:32.890 done if the prep is done if you've talked to 01:44:32.890 --> 01:44:35.430 the people you've had the confirmation of certain 01:44:35.430 --> 01:44:38.350 things you're guided by the best people in the 01:44:38.350 --> 01:44:41.789 business you're acting alongside the best actors 01:44:41.789 --> 01:44:44.310 you've ever worked with you know it's hard to 01:44:44.310 --> 01:44:48.310 hard to mess that up you know in some ways obviously 01:44:48.310 --> 01:44:52.380 you can still be received negatively for whatever 01:44:52.380 --> 01:44:55.220 reasons you know but i don't think we could have 01:44:55.220 --> 01:44:58.260 been you can't label out the lack of commitment 01:44:58.260 --> 01:45:03.460 to the cause or just how thorough we were all 01:45:03.460 --> 01:45:05.479 in and i don't just mean actors i mean across 01:45:05.479 --> 01:45:09.420 the board you know everybody was in tune in that 01:45:09.420 --> 01:45:12.619 period of time to deliver the best possible work 01:45:12.619 --> 01:45:15.800 they could well you talked about the real men 01:45:15.800 --> 01:45:18.180 some of them being on set some of them being 01:45:18.180 --> 01:45:24.300 accessible still um I share a clip often, and 01:45:24.300 --> 01:45:30.180 it is of Dick Winters recalling a letter. I can't 01:45:30.180 --> 01:45:31.640 remember if it's himself or one of the other 01:45:31.640 --> 01:45:36.340 men, but a grandchild says, Grandpa, were you 01:45:36.340 --> 01:45:40.159 a hero in the war? And Dick Winters starts choking 01:45:40.159 --> 01:45:42.640 up, and he says, No, but I served with a company 01:45:42.640 --> 01:45:46.659 of heroes. So I always refer to this. If you 01:45:46.659 --> 01:45:49.619 want to debunk the manly man, rub some dirt in 01:45:49.619 --> 01:45:52.180 it, don't be a pussy bullshit that we were raised 01:45:52.180 --> 01:45:55.159 on. Look at the real men of Easy Company as they 01:45:55.159 --> 01:45:57.380 speak on each episode of Band of Brothers. And 01:45:57.380 --> 01:45:59.500 over and over again, you see the raw emotions 01:45:59.500 --> 01:46:05.500 60 plus years later. So were you and or any of 01:46:05.500 --> 01:46:09.180 the cast members exposed to... some of that raw 01:46:09.180 --> 01:46:13.779 emotion from those men, the cost of war 60 plus 01:46:13.779 --> 01:46:17.819 years later? Well, that was Sergeant Mike Ranney, 01:46:17.880 --> 01:46:30.039 I believe, that wrote that letter. I didn't have, 01:46:30.140 --> 01:46:33.119 obviously, as I said, I didn't have Doc. I didn't 01:46:33.119 --> 01:46:37.319 have that facility to be able to go to him. And 01:46:37.319 --> 01:46:40.699 Ralph Spina was a telephone conversation. So 01:46:40.699 --> 01:46:44.640 that was, you know, an isolated event. Obviously, 01:46:44.720 --> 01:46:48.439 there were other actors that like Jimmy Madio, 01:46:48.520 --> 01:46:50.500 who played Baconti, Frank Baconti. I mean, they 01:46:50.500 --> 01:46:55.300 had a very close relationship. Frank was the 01:46:55.300 --> 01:46:58.140 obvious one for me with his relationship to Bill. 01:46:59.460 --> 01:47:03.460 I think that was like fathoms deep. And up to 01:47:03.460 --> 01:47:05.340 the point of him passing away, it was fathoms 01:47:05.340 --> 01:47:08.479 deep. So they might have got into those situations, 01:47:08.579 --> 01:47:12.260 you know, and had, and Frank may have seen things 01:47:12.260 --> 01:47:14.779 or, because the thing about Heffron and sort 01:47:14.779 --> 01:47:18.199 of Garnier and Heffron were they, they were talkers, 01:47:18.199 --> 01:47:20.659 you know, they were very open about that, you 01:47:20.659 --> 01:47:24.460 know? And so you could, you could get to the 01:47:24.460 --> 01:47:28.899 sort of, to the details of some stuff. And, you 01:47:28.899 --> 01:47:32.000 know, it's, I mean, you've seen it on the show, 01:47:32.060 --> 01:47:35.170 you know, you, you look, you look at them. which 01:47:35.170 --> 01:47:37.789 is the best thing for all that we did. There's 01:47:37.789 --> 01:47:40.670 nothing that tops the actual talking heads of 01:47:40.670 --> 01:47:43.409 the real guys, obviously. But you see, don't 01:47:43.409 --> 01:47:46.149 you? You see how raw, I mean, just Winters, that 01:47:46.149 --> 01:47:48.710 moment you're talking about, which is like, you 01:47:48.710 --> 01:47:51.050 know, arguably the moment of the entire series, 01:47:51.109 --> 01:47:54.010 isn't it? How somebody like Winters, you know, 01:47:54.050 --> 01:47:56.090 he's got that, it's right there, isn't it? That 01:47:56.090 --> 01:47:58.029 emotion, it's right there. The eye's well up. 01:47:58.090 --> 01:48:00.350 It's just, it's there. And you have that moment 01:48:00.350 --> 01:48:02.670 with Johnny Martin, the real Johnny Martin in 01:48:02.670 --> 01:48:06.659 the talking head. and others, you know, that 01:48:06.659 --> 01:48:11.819 just, you know, it's really there. It's like 01:48:11.819 --> 01:48:18.720 a flimsy lid on top of it all. And, you know, 01:48:18.760 --> 01:48:20.979 the love is just, like you say, their love, they're 01:48:20.979 --> 01:48:23.539 not, it's just there. It's so sort of palpable. 01:48:23.920 --> 01:48:26.199 I love that about them. You know, they really 01:48:26.199 --> 01:48:34.060 do, they really feel fondly and... I think those 01:48:34.060 --> 01:48:36.199 reunions, you know, for those that did attend, 01:48:36.399 --> 01:48:38.159 you know, who could feel that they could attend, 01:48:38.260 --> 01:48:41.399 you know, you could see it. You can see the sort 01:48:41.399 --> 01:48:46.840 of the, the, what it means to be around, to be 01:48:46.840 --> 01:48:49.859 around those fellas, you know, you know, and, 01:48:49.960 --> 01:48:52.880 and, and just to, to divert slightly, but to, 01:48:52.899 --> 01:48:55.060 to go back to what I was saying about that, that 01:48:55.060 --> 01:48:57.119 hub and that sort of charity that I saw, you 01:48:57.119 --> 01:48:59.340 know, the same thing happens, that happens there, 01:48:59.399 --> 01:49:02.039 you know, it's just the, the glee that sort of, 01:49:02.270 --> 01:49:06.609 with within them you know to see people of their 01:49:06.609 --> 01:49:09.449 kind you know people that they were with in in 01:49:09.449 --> 01:49:11.930 these extraordinary conditions you know being 01:49:11.930 --> 01:49:16.229 able to share that uh even if it's just sort 01:49:16.229 --> 01:49:18.130 of just a feeling you know then you have to be 01:49:18.130 --> 01:49:20.170 talking specifically about it it's just being 01:49:20.170 --> 01:49:23.550 in the company of that makes the difference and 01:49:23.550 --> 01:49:28.569 can lift a face and crack a smile um you know 01:49:28.569 --> 01:49:31.829 i love that love that sort of they've they've 01:49:31.829 --> 01:49:35.529 got that you know um so and i so i think you 01:49:35.529 --> 01:49:38.630 know they the bottom line about band of brothers 01:49:38.630 --> 01:49:41.390 and you know and dale's dale said this many a 01:49:41.390 --> 01:49:45.729 time is that for all of the the big battles and 01:49:45.729 --> 01:49:48.689 and we all we all love to see those kind of things 01:49:48.689 --> 01:49:50.850 those spectacular events on screen happening 01:49:50.850 --> 01:49:53.510 and of course depicting moments in history like 01:49:53.510 --> 01:49:56.430 this but it is about those human stories it is 01:49:56.430 --> 01:49:58.289 about the human connection it isn't just about 01:49:58.289 --> 01:50:01.899 being human And the personalities within that, 01:50:01.960 --> 01:50:04.939 you know, that old cliche of ordinary people 01:50:04.939 --> 01:50:07.140 doing extraordinary things, people we can relate 01:50:07.140 --> 01:50:10.399 to that are in that. And then you question, well, 01:50:10.520 --> 01:50:13.420 James, you know, with what you've done in your 01:50:13.420 --> 01:50:17.739 career, you know, I'm more, you know, you've 01:50:17.739 --> 01:50:19.899 done stuff, you know, but I can ask the question 01:50:19.899 --> 01:50:22.960 as a thespian saying, if I was in that position, 01:50:23.220 --> 01:50:25.399 how would I react? Would I be able to deal with 01:50:25.399 --> 01:50:28.449 that? You know? those life or death situations 01:50:28.449 --> 01:50:31.710 which you've done you know how would i people 01:50:31.710 --> 01:50:37.750 do that you know and and and so um yeah it's 01:50:37.750 --> 01:50:40.649 it's it's it's that it's it's the human and so 01:50:40.649 --> 01:50:43.010 we were fortunate you know to to have people 01:50:43.010 --> 01:50:46.689 that that were able to speak about their experiences 01:50:46.689 --> 01:50:50.050 and be able to connect and be able to give a 01:50:50.050 --> 01:50:51.930 little insight into the sort of psychology of 01:50:51.930 --> 01:50:54.069 it all and how they feel about things and yes 01:50:54.569 --> 01:50:56.510 I'm sure after a few beers, you know, it got 01:50:56.510 --> 01:51:00.090 quite emotional for, for, for, for the real bill 01:51:00.090 --> 01:51:02.430 and Garnier and Frank. And they're talking about 01:51:02.430 --> 01:51:04.810 stuff because when they talk about that, that's 01:51:04.810 --> 01:51:07.130 where it really came out. When I think they're 01:51:07.130 --> 01:51:09.409 talking about like Penn Carla or Mark, you know, 01:51:09.409 --> 01:51:13.670 people that were, they lost along the way, you 01:51:13.670 --> 01:51:18.050 know, and they think about that are buried, you 01:51:18.050 --> 01:51:22.979 know, over here in Europe, you know, that's when 01:51:22.979 --> 01:51:25.439 it hits home. I think a lot of the time, you 01:51:25.439 --> 01:51:27.500 know, it's, it's just, just that, you know, it's 01:51:27.500 --> 01:51:30.880 just remembering that, that sort of felt that, 01:51:30.939 --> 01:51:33.859 that, that tree that has been failed, that tree 01:51:33.859 --> 01:51:38.899 of youth, you know, and, and so that gets them 01:51:38.899 --> 01:51:41.199 emotional, but I think, you know, that, that, 01:51:41.199 --> 01:51:44.159 yeah, I, you know, I didn't personally have that 01:51:44.159 --> 01:51:47.220 sort of moment, but I heard stories and, you 01:51:47.220 --> 01:51:50.409 know, It just stands to reason in many ways that 01:51:50.409 --> 01:51:53.189 it would be like that. But we were just lucky. 01:51:53.250 --> 01:51:56.829 We were just lucky to have that resource and 01:51:56.829 --> 01:51:59.829 something to tap into. It was priceless. It was 01:51:59.829 --> 01:52:02.489 invaluable. Like I say, you couldn't make exactly 01:52:02.489 --> 01:52:04.350 the same type of thing now. You just couldn't. 01:52:04.829 --> 01:52:08.729 So we were very lucky boys to be able to have 01:52:08.729 --> 01:52:11.720 that. Absolutely. Well, I want to read something 01:52:11.720 --> 01:52:14.199 that Dale sent to me. So I asked him and Julia, 01:52:14.340 --> 01:52:16.000 hey, have you got anything? And I'm going to 01:52:16.000 --> 01:52:18.899 have Shane on the show. And so he sent me this 01:52:18.899 --> 01:52:22.319 email. Doc was a serious and dedicated student 01:52:22.319 --> 01:52:25.319 in training. I did my best to give him field 01:52:25.319 --> 01:52:27.579 first aid instruction, but he always wanted to 01:52:27.579 --> 01:52:30.199 know more. And he did some studying, which only 01:52:30.199 --> 01:52:33.119 led to some more difficult questions. And those 01:52:33.119 --> 01:52:35.239 questions were some of the most insightful and 01:52:35.239 --> 01:52:37.619 penetrating things I've ever had to discuss with 01:52:37.619 --> 01:52:40.680 him. I mostly had to reflect on things I remembered 01:52:40.680 --> 01:52:43.579 personally about being wounded. He soaked it 01:52:43.579 --> 01:52:45.539 all up like a sponge, and I saw him recreate 01:52:45.539 --> 01:52:47.859 some of that during scenes that we were shooting. 01:52:48.680 --> 01:52:51.699 Made me very proud. There were a lot of emotional 01:52:51.699 --> 01:52:53.640 moments, but the one that nearly brought tears 01:52:53.640 --> 01:52:55.859 to my eyes, which, by the way, is incredible 01:52:55.859 --> 01:53:00.960 to bring tears to Delta's eyes, was the scene 01:53:00.960 --> 01:53:03.460 when he sits next to the French nurse, both of 01:53:03.460 --> 01:53:06.170 them exhausted mentally and physically. I saw 01:53:06.170 --> 01:53:08.529 something in Doc's eyes that truly moved me. 01:53:09.350 --> 01:53:13.590 Now, kind of piggybacking on that, as a paramedic 01:53:13.590 --> 01:53:16.489 and something I've spoken about a lot, I lost 01:53:16.489 --> 01:53:19.130 so many people in my career. I was kind of what 01:53:19.130 --> 01:53:21.529 they term as a black cloud. So I had all the 01:53:21.529 --> 01:53:23.250 people, as we were talking prior to recording, 01:53:23.470 --> 01:53:27.880 that should have survived but didn't. had these 01:53:27.880 --> 01:53:30.260 kind of unsurvivable things whether it's brain 01:53:30.260 --> 01:53:32.520 bleeds or triple A's or you know all these awful 01:53:32.520 --> 01:53:34.739 things that can happen to the human body and 01:53:34.739 --> 01:53:38.300 so there is that inability to save which is crushing 01:53:38.300 --> 01:53:40.220 because you go to school you read the textbooks 01:53:40.220 --> 01:53:43.239 you play on the mannequin like do A B and C and 01:53:43.239 --> 01:53:44.899 they'll jump up give you a hug and bake you a 01:53:44.899 --> 01:53:49.319 cake the reality is not that not even close so 01:53:49.319 --> 01:53:54.100 in the scene in Bastogne you talk about the Belgian 01:53:54.100 --> 01:53:57.500 nurse that was one of the most powerful scenes 01:53:57.500 --> 01:54:01.140 for me because as a medic myself i can relate 01:54:01.140 --> 01:54:03.699 to that feeling that feeling of exhaustion that 01:54:03.699 --> 01:54:08.140 um moral injury that you know crushing weight 01:54:08.140 --> 01:54:10.800 of you know death after death after then don't 01:54:10.800 --> 01:54:12.399 get me wrong you know there's a lot of pre -codes 01:54:12.399 --> 01:54:14.100 and things that we did save but there's still 01:54:14.100 --> 01:54:17.460 you know a body count to every medic every firefighter 01:54:17.460 --> 01:54:20.840 every police officer's career that amounts so 01:54:20.840 --> 01:54:24.159 talk to me about you know that scene and and 01:54:24.159 --> 01:54:26.180 you know what it was like from the inside looking 01:54:26.180 --> 01:54:29.960 out It was such a fabulous scene to be involved 01:54:29.960 --> 01:54:31.899 with. And I think David Leland, who directed 01:54:31.899 --> 01:54:35.319 it, was such an influential player for me. And 01:54:35.319 --> 01:54:38.020 again, you go back to acute sensitivity of subject 01:54:38.020 --> 01:54:42.699 matter. Dale has that as the guy overseeing things. 01:54:42.779 --> 01:54:46.380 But David, as a director, theatre background, 01:54:46.560 --> 01:54:49.500 but great filmic director, he and I would often 01:54:49.500 --> 01:54:51.979 be in the foxhole first thing in the morning, 01:54:52.039 --> 01:54:54.539 just he and I. That's it. That's it. Everybody 01:54:54.539 --> 01:54:57.520 was sent away. or told to come later on, you 01:54:57.520 --> 01:54:59.380 know, and we'd just talk about it, talk about 01:54:59.380 --> 01:55:00.920 what we're going to need to do today, what the 01:55:00.920 --> 01:55:03.699 scene was, thoughts about it, how we're going 01:55:03.699 --> 01:55:05.960 to handle it. And then he'd bring some of the 01:55:05.960 --> 01:55:08.140 techie guys in and we'd go through the specifics 01:55:08.140 --> 01:55:09.579 of certain things and other people would come 01:55:09.579 --> 01:55:11.680 in to play. But it was almost like a, in that 01:55:11.680 --> 01:55:14.460 sense, it was like a play. You know, you had 01:55:14.460 --> 01:55:17.859 the real sense of, you know, talking about stuff, 01:55:17.960 --> 01:55:19.699 having the time and the luxury to do that. It's 01:55:19.699 --> 01:55:22.600 very unusual for, especially TV. But these were 01:55:22.600 --> 01:55:24.939 shot like, obviously, movies every episode, you 01:55:24.939 --> 01:55:28.050 know. Well, I think that is my favourite scene. 01:55:28.210 --> 01:55:31.029 The juxtaposition of that and trying to save 01:55:31.029 --> 01:55:34.409 and not being able to, the soldier in the crypt, 01:55:34.630 --> 01:55:40.750 if you remember before that, a lovely guy called 01:55:40.750 --> 01:55:43.369 Tim getting very sticky with fake blood all afternoon 01:55:43.369 --> 01:55:51.510 and very hot. But I think, like you say, that 01:55:51.510 --> 01:55:55.069 almost feeling of like... Well, that relentless 01:55:55.069 --> 01:55:58.590 carousel of helplessness and hopelessness, almost 01:55:58.590 --> 01:56:02.310 trying to do what they're doing on limited resources. 01:56:04.350 --> 01:56:06.489 You know, it was emotionally charged in that 01:56:06.489 --> 01:56:09.289 Crip scene, if you remember. And I think Doc 01:56:09.289 --> 01:56:12.689 kind of just, it gets angry, not with the nurses 01:56:12.689 --> 01:56:16.949 or anything, but it's just that how futile it 01:56:16.949 --> 01:56:24.399 all seems, you know. And then, of course. you've 01:56:24.399 --> 01:56:29.779 got that very quiet scene that is right on the 01:56:29.779 --> 01:56:32.460 back of it, I think, isn't it? And it's with 01:56:32.460 --> 01:56:37.779 Ro and Renee and some sort of smoking kind of 01:56:37.779 --> 01:56:42.760 cinders somewhere. And, you know, it's a cold 01:56:42.760 --> 01:56:45.439 setting, of course, or it's supposed to be, but, 01:56:45.500 --> 01:56:48.500 you know, it's one of the warmest scenes of the 01:56:48.500 --> 01:56:51.710 show, I think, you know. It's written that way. 01:56:51.729 --> 01:56:53.149 I'm not just saying because we played it some 01:56:53.149 --> 01:56:54.529 way, but it's just written that way. And that's 01:56:54.529 --> 01:56:57.590 what struck me that something this warm in something 01:56:57.590 --> 01:57:04.050 so cold. But yeah, that sense of fatigue, that 01:57:04.050 --> 01:57:08.689 sense of helplessness, but that connection, obviously, 01:57:08.789 --> 01:57:11.930 in terms of what they were both trying to do, 01:57:12.270 --> 01:57:15.649 save lives in a theatre of war. I mean, it's 01:57:15.649 --> 01:57:17.409 got to be the hardest thing to do, isn't it? 01:57:19.310 --> 01:57:23.390 And you've got this, obviously, you know, there's 01:57:23.390 --> 01:57:25.229 a Cajun French and there's a sort of Belgian 01:57:25.229 --> 01:57:27.890 French speaking nurse, you know, you have these, 01:57:27.949 --> 01:57:31.750 this connection there, but I just love that. 01:57:31.829 --> 01:57:33.729 And then obviously the chocolate that comes out 01:57:33.729 --> 01:57:37.149 and there's all that stuff. But I think, yeah, 01:57:37.170 --> 01:57:39.890 that, that meeting of that, that sort of spiritual 01:57:39.890 --> 01:57:44.010 connection between them, you know, there's a 01:57:44.010 --> 01:57:46.529 lot said, there's a lot. there's a lot said without 01:57:46.529 --> 01:57:48.989 saying much, I think is the thing. And that's 01:57:48.989 --> 01:57:52.189 always the good screenwriting and, and as actors, 01:57:52.250 --> 01:57:54.029 you know, playing those sorts of things are the 01:57:54.029 --> 01:57:59.130 best things to play, you know? And I think, yeah, 01:57:59.149 --> 01:58:01.250 I think, you know, all that you're getting from 01:58:01.250 --> 01:58:03.050 it or all that you've just said to me about it 01:58:03.050 --> 01:58:07.149 is, is really what we were trying to do, you 01:58:07.149 --> 01:58:09.949 know, so to, to, to, to bring that all forward 01:58:09.949 --> 01:58:13.029 and, and, and, and just to put it right up front 01:58:13.029 --> 01:58:17.149 that this. this rotation. Cause I even thinking 01:58:17.149 --> 01:58:20.510 even at the end of that scene, there's some, 01:58:20.550 --> 01:58:21.890 there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a man 01:58:21.890 --> 01:58:23.550 coming in, isn't it? There's an injured man that 01:58:23.550 --> 01:58:24.850 they they're coming in and they're off again, 01:58:24.949 --> 01:58:27.369 you know? So it's just, it's the minute, this 01:58:27.369 --> 01:58:29.970 is the smallest of windows where they have that 01:58:29.970 --> 01:58:34.050 connection and ability to just have a, a moment, 01:58:34.109 --> 01:58:36.470 you know, the air break is released just a little 01:58:36.470 --> 01:58:41.890 bit. I wish you'd taken some chocolate, but there 01:58:41.890 --> 01:58:45.199 you go. But anyway, he didn't. So. and then they're 01:58:45.199 --> 01:58:46.500 up and they're off and they're, they're gone 01:58:46.500 --> 01:58:50.579 again, you know, but, but I think, yeah, I think 01:58:50.579 --> 01:58:53.460 it's a great point in the script. I think, you 01:58:53.460 --> 01:58:56.199 know, in broadening out a little bit, you know, 01:58:56.199 --> 01:59:00.239 dollying back, I think that what, what an interesting, 01:59:00.319 --> 01:59:02.100 and I'm not just saying this because I was in 01:59:02.100 --> 01:59:04.439 it and I happened to be like the, you know, Damien 01:59:04.439 --> 01:59:07.340 for a month in that episode, but I was, I just 01:59:07.340 --> 01:59:09.600 think it was a smart thing for HBO to do. I don't, 01:59:09.600 --> 01:59:11.260 you know, battle of the bulge. I mean, we're 01:59:11.260 --> 01:59:14.710 all familiar with, you know, The shellacking, 01:59:14.829 --> 01:59:17.470 as it were, you know, as it was known with the 01:59:17.470 --> 01:59:20.489 German shelling and the Bojack and all that sort 01:59:20.489 --> 01:59:24.430 of stuff. But, you know, because we had those 01:59:24.430 --> 01:59:26.590 two episodes, we had plenty of time for that 01:59:26.590 --> 01:59:31.510 to happen. The spectacle of that, you know, which 01:59:31.510 --> 01:59:35.090 needed to also be seen, you know, for sure. But 01:59:35.090 --> 01:59:37.750 the way they just kind of went off and decided 01:59:37.750 --> 01:59:40.289 to see it first and foremost through the eyes 01:59:40.289 --> 01:59:42.130 of a medic was just I just thought was an incredible 01:59:42.130 --> 01:59:44.800 thing, you know. I hadn't seen it. We've seen 01:59:44.800 --> 01:59:46.579 a few things like that. You mentioned Hacksaw 01:59:46.579 --> 01:59:49.460 Ridge earlier. Other things have been seen now 01:59:49.460 --> 01:59:51.560 through that sort of the medic's eyes, as it 01:59:51.560 --> 01:59:54.619 were. But I can't really remember anything similar 01:59:54.619 --> 01:59:59.060 that was just, aside from a scene or two that 01:59:59.060 --> 02:00:02.539 a medic was in, not to see it through the POV 02:00:02.539 --> 02:00:06.800 of one. And I think it was just a masterstroke. 02:00:06.840 --> 02:00:09.899 I think it was a really great thing to do. And 02:00:09.899 --> 02:00:12.810 it gave you that midpoint. in the series, you 02:00:12.810 --> 02:00:17.489 know, a different sort of perspective. And then, 02:00:17.590 --> 02:00:21.590 of course, we return to the main through line. 02:00:21.710 --> 02:00:24.970 But yeah, I think it was all in there, you know, 02:00:24.970 --> 02:00:26.869 going back to that scene, you know, in that point 02:00:26.869 --> 02:00:31.329 to sort of depict that fatigue, to depict that 02:00:31.329 --> 02:00:36.029 sort of, you know, they're carrying on. They 02:00:36.029 --> 02:00:38.960 know what they're dealing with. But the heroic 02:00:38.960 --> 02:00:40.520 element, of course, is that they're carrying 02:00:40.520 --> 02:00:47.579 on regardless. And so they go back. But it's 02:00:47.579 --> 02:00:52.220 almost, it's just such a, it's such a sweet little 02:00:52.220 --> 02:00:56.840 section, a little, you know, a very sort of, 02:00:56.840 --> 02:01:01.760 a scene that I feel like sits well within the 02:01:01.760 --> 02:01:05.560 chaos of it all. And you need those breaks. You 02:01:05.560 --> 02:01:07.380 need those breaks. It's relenting. I read somewhere 02:01:07.380 --> 02:01:10.159 that the amount of blood and all kinds of stuff 02:01:10.159 --> 02:01:13.460 just in Bastogne alone was more than the entire 02:01:13.460 --> 02:01:16.300 Saving Private Ryan. And that's just in Bastogne. 02:01:16.359 --> 02:01:18.420 We haven't got to the breaking point episode 02:01:18.420 --> 02:01:23.840 yet. So they did the hell out of it. They really 02:01:23.840 --> 02:01:26.680 did their homework and they wrote some scripts 02:01:26.680 --> 02:01:30.840 and they threw everything at it to depict it 02:01:30.840 --> 02:01:35.819 the way that it came across. But having those 02:01:35.819 --> 02:01:37.939 moments for the audience also, if you want to 02:01:37.939 --> 02:01:40.420 get dramatically theatrical in terms of the structure 02:01:40.420 --> 02:01:44.199 of things, you need those breaks. And also, what 02:01:44.199 --> 02:01:46.659 does it do? It touches upon what I was saying 02:01:46.659 --> 02:01:48.699 earlier. It brings it back to the human element. 02:01:49.340 --> 02:01:52.319 Most important. Most important. It's not whether 02:01:52.319 --> 02:01:55.420 you can load up an M1 quick. It's like, let's 02:01:55.420 --> 02:01:58.500 just look at the human element. Not even about 02:01:58.500 --> 02:02:02.930 dressing or, you know. putting a serret in somebody 02:02:02.930 --> 02:02:06.130 just two people talking about their experiences 02:02:06.130 --> 02:02:08.529 or not talking about their experiences but just 02:02:08.529 --> 02:02:12.789 just two people having a moment to communicate 02:02:12.789 --> 02:02:18.430 and two personalities uh that are different but 02:02:18.430 --> 02:02:21.310 at the same time so alike and i think it was 02:02:21.310 --> 02:02:25.680 pitched just right you know no it was it was 02:02:25.680 --> 02:02:28.060 amazing and really what resonated with me obviously 02:02:28.060 --> 02:02:30.659 i didn't have a moment with a belgian nurse during 02:02:30.659 --> 02:02:33.779 my career but i will parallel it for example 02:02:33.779 --> 02:02:37.859 there was one horrendous car accident where a 02:02:37.859 --> 02:02:39.640 little girl was killed and she was roughly the 02:02:39.640 --> 02:02:43.220 same age as my son and i remember you know calling 02:02:43.220 --> 02:02:45.159 him after that and obviously not telling him 02:02:45.159 --> 02:02:46.479 anything and he's really really young but calling 02:02:46.479 --> 02:02:49.260 home and just talking to him you know and then 02:02:49.880 --> 02:02:51.960 And you're halfway through, maybe you finish 02:02:51.960 --> 02:02:53.880 a conversation, the tones go off, you jump on 02:02:53.880 --> 02:02:56.220 the rig and off you go, run another one. Or you're 02:02:56.220 --> 02:02:59.119 at the hospital, you've just literally offloaded 02:02:59.119 --> 02:03:02.000 a patient that, you know, nearly dead, dead, 02:03:02.060 --> 02:03:04.859 whatever they were. And then your radio starts 02:03:04.859 --> 02:03:06.640 blaring, hey, we're short of people, we need 02:03:06.640 --> 02:03:08.479 you back out there. And, you know, you clean 02:03:08.479 --> 02:03:10.039 up your shit and you get back out there again. 02:03:10.119 --> 02:03:13.560 So, yeah, that pause, you know, whether it's 02:03:13.560 --> 02:03:16.760 in the EMS cafeteria, just grabbing a freaking, 02:03:16.840 --> 02:03:19.329 you know, cup of coffee before you go out. back 02:03:19.329 --> 02:03:21.109 into the gang lands of the streets or whatever 02:03:21.109 --> 02:03:23.850 it is that, you know, you do in your area, there 02:03:23.850 --> 02:03:26.390 is such a strong parallel between that scene. 02:03:26.470 --> 02:03:28.510 I'm sure obviously, you know, military medics, 02:03:28.529 --> 02:03:30.729 but you know, law enforcement fire and all the 02:03:30.729 --> 02:03:33.350 other people that are kind of out, out when everyone 02:03:33.350 --> 02:03:36.850 else is safely in their beds. Yeah. Well, listen, 02:03:36.930 --> 02:03:40.430 a big salute to you, James, that, you know, I 02:03:40.430 --> 02:03:42.569 mean, I had the luxury of not doing it for real, 02:03:42.630 --> 02:03:45.250 you know, and not having it really that sort 02:03:45.250 --> 02:03:50.000 of, you know, I just, It is incredible. It is 02:03:50.000 --> 02:03:56.159 incredible. And I don't know how you come away 02:03:56.159 --> 02:04:00.020 without scar tissue. And that kind of circles 02:04:00.020 --> 02:04:02.399 back to what we were talking about earlier, the 02:04:02.399 --> 02:04:04.279 things in place of when you get out of that, 02:04:04.420 --> 02:04:09.140 if you can survive something like that. It almost 02:04:09.140 --> 02:04:11.720 seems like that's the first hurdle. It's a big 02:04:11.720 --> 02:04:14.039 hurdle, but you've got over that. But now how 02:04:14.039 --> 02:04:16.739 do you survive the rest of it on the outside? 02:04:17.210 --> 02:04:21.270 you know so it's it's um it's complex you know 02:04:21.270 --> 02:04:24.069 no it is and you know and it's it's a it's a 02:04:24.069 --> 02:04:27.609 constant work in progress to maintain your physical 02:04:27.609 --> 02:04:29.470 mental health in this profession because sadly 02:04:29.470 --> 02:04:32.170 especially in the fire service in america the 02:04:32.170 --> 02:04:36.430 way that they work those men and women is counter 02:04:36.430 --> 02:04:39.069 productive when it comes to overall mental and 02:04:39.069 --> 02:04:40.710 physical health so they're literally swimming 02:04:40.710 --> 02:04:43.470 upstream the whole time and so yeah i mean that's 02:04:43.470 --> 02:04:45.250 that's the reason i started this podcast and 02:04:45.250 --> 02:04:48.920 you know i think The people who are fortunate 02:04:48.920 --> 02:04:52.119 have a good foundation and a solid childhood 02:04:52.119 --> 02:04:53.960 behind them where maybe you had some stuff, but 02:04:53.960 --> 02:04:55.939 you were able to process that healthily and move 02:04:55.939 --> 02:04:58.300 on. Or maybe you were just so fortunate you didn't 02:04:58.300 --> 02:05:01.199 have a lot in the bucket when you first entered. 02:05:01.399 --> 02:05:06.100 But yeah, and it's just this ongoing thing. But 02:05:06.100 --> 02:05:08.579 sadly, a lot of us succumb to physical illness, 02:05:08.640 --> 02:05:11.899 to mental illness. And that's why I think so 02:05:11.899 --> 02:05:15.020 many of us are raising our voices and saying, 02:05:15.039 --> 02:05:17.510 look, the way we're doing it is literally, you 02:05:17.510 --> 02:05:19.770 know killing us you know killing our men and 02:05:19.770 --> 02:05:23.109 women and enough of us die on the job itself 02:05:23.109 --> 02:05:26.069 you know by fire by gunfire whatever it is but 02:05:26.069 --> 02:05:27.770 the thought that they come home and then take 02:05:27.770 --> 02:05:30.989 their own life you know or or succumb to you 02:05:30.989 --> 02:05:33.090 know a work -related cancer or heart disease 02:05:33.090 --> 02:05:35.350 i mean to me that those preventable elements 02:05:35.350 --> 02:05:39.130 are unacceptable you know i can't stop some horrific 02:05:39.130 --> 02:05:42.369 tornado blowing through here and you know ripping 02:05:42.369 --> 02:05:45.550 me out of my house but i can stop at least some 02:05:45.550 --> 02:05:48.380 of the diseases that You know, we can potentially 02:05:48.380 --> 02:05:53.039 get and it's such a such a hard sell in a profession 02:05:53.039 --> 02:05:56.100 where if you're not careful, you're just purely 02:05:56.100 --> 02:05:57.960 looking at how many bums you got and how many 02:05:57.960 --> 02:05:59.920 seats and you're not looking, as you said, at 02:05:59.920 --> 02:06:03.220 the human beings in each of those seats. Yeah. 02:06:04.140 --> 02:06:06.939 I mean, are you noticing anything, though, James, 02:06:07.000 --> 02:06:09.239 where, you know, in and around your sort of. 02:06:10.130 --> 02:06:12.710 sphere you know of things that are i mean you're 02:06:12.710 --> 02:06:14.750 doing your bit obviously and you're and you have 02:06:14.750 --> 02:06:17.810 great guests and they're doing theirs but um 02:06:17.810 --> 02:06:21.350 you know are you in a in a in a broader circle 02:06:21.350 --> 02:06:23.449 are you seeing stuff that is kind of trying to 02:06:23.449 --> 02:06:25.970 get in place you know maybe at sort of state 02:06:25.970 --> 02:06:28.189 level or is there's just or is it really an indie 02:06:28.189 --> 02:06:30.989 venture that their independence are really taking 02:06:30.989 --> 02:06:33.569 on themselves through communities and stuff like 02:06:33.569 --> 02:06:36.810 that to kind of you know show the way forward 02:06:37.149 --> 02:06:39.310 Yeah, no, I'd say India is a perfect example. 02:06:39.489 --> 02:06:42.189 Yeah, there are some incredible human beings, 02:06:42.210 --> 02:06:44.109 many of whom they're either still in the profession 02:06:44.109 --> 02:06:47.250 or transitioned out of the uniform professions 02:06:47.250 --> 02:06:49.569 that now take it upon themselves to start nonprofits 02:06:49.569 --> 02:06:54.250 and training organizations. Well, simultaneously, 02:06:54.829 --> 02:06:58.090 governmentally, you know, it's not. I mean, we 02:06:58.090 --> 02:07:01.470 have a union and yet the working conditions are 02:07:01.470 --> 02:07:03.270 terrible, you know, and so there's, you know, 02:07:03.270 --> 02:07:05.039 I. Probably piss off a lot of people when I say 02:07:05.039 --> 02:07:06.500 this, but there's a lot of chess beating about 02:07:06.500 --> 02:07:09.140 our union. But the work week hasn't even been 02:07:09.140 --> 02:07:11.600 figured out yet. So I don't know how you can 02:07:11.600 --> 02:07:13.920 be so proud of yourself taking all these people's 02:07:13.920 --> 02:07:15.500 dues and you haven't even fixed something as 02:07:15.500 --> 02:07:18.520 basal as that. So, you know, it is it's a lot 02:07:18.520 --> 02:07:21.159 of voices. But again, as we said, division versus 02:07:21.159 --> 02:07:24.500 unity. My hope is enough of us on the ground 02:07:24.500 --> 02:07:28.420 level unify and demand change. Whether it's in 02:07:28.420 --> 02:07:31.260 the military, all the burn drums and all these 02:07:31.260 --> 02:07:33.039 things that you're hearing now are causing our 02:07:33.039 --> 02:07:36.399 veterans illness. Agent Orange from Vietnam and 02:07:36.399 --> 02:07:39.420 the sleep deprivation is the big thing. you know 02:07:39.420 --> 02:07:42.100 with us and the fact that our responders are 02:07:42.100 --> 02:07:45.279 working sometimes double the work week of a person 02:07:45.279 --> 02:07:47.939 that pushes papers for a living is absolute insanity 02:07:47.939 --> 02:07:51.060 so yeah but it's it's about it's you know educated 02:07:51.060 --> 02:07:52.979 and angry is what i like to say that's what we 02:07:52.979 --> 02:07:54.739 need to do give people the tools to understand 02:07:54.739 --> 02:07:57.520 why they're angry then get angry then force change 02:07:57.520 --> 02:08:02.260 yeah my gosh thank goodness you're doing your 02:08:02.260 --> 02:08:04.399 bit man you're doing your bit well i've got enough 02:08:04.399 --> 02:08:08.779 enough vinegar to share around so Well, I want 02:08:08.779 --> 02:08:11.220 to hit on one more spot before we then transition 02:08:11.220 --> 02:08:13.020 out of Band of Brothers and talk about, you know, 02:08:13.039 --> 02:08:15.000 life after Band of Brothers, because that in 02:08:15.000 --> 02:08:18.600 itself is a topic. Chris Bourgeois, excuse me, 02:08:18.680 --> 02:08:21.960 is the grandson of Doc Rowe. So talk to me about 02:08:21.960 --> 02:08:24.140 your relationship with him. I know that, you 02:08:24.140 --> 02:08:26.439 know, he's just, I think, again, just come back 02:08:26.439 --> 02:08:29.119 from Europe for another D -Day kind of memorial. 02:08:29.319 --> 02:08:32.239 So I'd love to just kind of hear about post 9 02:08:32.239 --> 02:08:36.199 -11, post Band of Brothers and, you know, that 02:08:36.199 --> 02:08:40.680 kind of relationship. Well, you know, I mean, 02:08:40.699 --> 02:08:43.539 that's something that came out of, you know, 02:08:43.560 --> 02:08:47.560 it was an after event, really, I suppose. You 02:08:47.560 --> 02:08:52.300 know, Chris and I, you know, we're pretty close, 02:08:52.500 --> 02:08:55.439 you know, we're pretty tight. And so the byproduct 02:08:55.439 --> 02:08:59.619 of doing that show and, you know, I didn't, I 02:08:59.619 --> 02:09:01.300 always wondered what it would be like to sort 02:09:01.300 --> 02:09:03.939 of have known him before. But then I do remember 02:09:03.939 --> 02:09:07.399 that he said that, you know, it wasn't like Eugene 02:09:07.399 --> 02:09:11.119 talked about the war really. He wasn't one of 02:09:11.119 --> 02:09:14.020 those that did. So it wouldn't, you know, I was 02:09:14.020 --> 02:09:16.140 thinking, well, maybe you could have, you know, 02:09:16.140 --> 02:09:18.020 imparted some wisdom about, I don't know, whatever 02:09:18.020 --> 02:09:20.260 it is. And, and, but I do remember Chris saying 02:09:20.260 --> 02:09:22.439 he didn't really, in fact, when we went to the 02:09:22.439 --> 02:09:25.579 Bastogne together, we went to the 75th anniversary 02:09:25.579 --> 02:09:29.359 and we were doing something for the U S embassy 02:09:29.359 --> 02:09:33.119 there. And, and it was some kind of, it was just 02:09:33.119 --> 02:09:36.000 a little short piece. We did an interview and, 02:09:36.909 --> 02:09:39.310 It was a really touching moment, really. You 02:09:39.310 --> 02:09:42.829 know, Chris was saying about how the show or 02:09:42.829 --> 02:09:46.289 that, you know, he named me being the actor that 02:09:46.289 --> 02:09:49.130 I gave him his grandfather, you know, because 02:09:49.130 --> 02:09:50.890 he didn't know what he did in the war. He just 02:09:50.890 --> 02:09:54.729 didn't know. He didn't have the full compliment 02:09:54.729 --> 02:10:00.710 of facts, you know, of what a medic did, you 02:10:00.710 --> 02:10:06.460 know. And so that was a... you know that was 02:10:06.460 --> 02:10:08.279 that that that choked me up I remember that it 02:10:08.279 --> 02:10:11.180 was a it was quite a moment but you know Chris 02:10:11.180 --> 02:10:13.680 is such an influential guy in terms of he's such 02:10:13.680 --> 02:10:18.079 a nice guy too and you know warm he's a stand 02:10:18.079 --> 02:10:21.720 -up Dallas police officer now but he's um you 02:10:21.720 --> 02:10:25.460 know he he and I have you know whenever we whenever 02:10:25.460 --> 02:10:27.399 we get together it's the easiest thing in the 02:10:27.399 --> 02:10:29.939 world you know and our personalities are just 02:10:29.939 --> 02:10:36.130 easy going you know and uh he's just uh he's 02:10:36.130 --> 02:10:38.369 really so into the history. And if you talk about 02:10:38.369 --> 02:10:41.470 somebody at the forefront of preserving the memory, 02:10:42.210 --> 02:10:46.090 the guy's just, he's like a Dick Winters. I mean, 02:10:46.090 --> 02:10:48.390 he's like a Carwood Lipton. I mean, he's a, he's, 02:10:48.390 --> 02:10:52.430 he's out there and did a fantastic thing with 02:10:52.430 --> 02:10:56.010 the, for the, for the kids. He managed to get 02:10:56.010 --> 02:10:58.510 a, a really talented illustrator, I think from 02:10:58.510 --> 02:11:04.560 the Netherlands. I think that's right. He, has 02:11:04.560 --> 02:11:08.239 kind of pinned a, you know, an easy company story, 02:11:08.380 --> 02:11:11.279 I suppose, for the sort of school age kids, lovely 02:11:11.279 --> 02:11:13.640 book. And that's kind of, you can find that in 02:11:13.640 --> 02:11:15.840 most of the museums that I've seen now in Europe, 02:11:15.880 --> 02:11:18.140 you know, he's kind of expanded globally with 02:11:18.140 --> 02:11:20.619 this thing as a, as another way in, you know, 02:11:20.619 --> 02:11:23.640 and he's very active in terms of like the family 02:11:23.640 --> 02:11:26.199 reunions, you know, he's really stepped up and 02:11:26.199 --> 02:11:30.880 over the years and been part of that. And. So, 02:11:30.960 --> 02:11:33.079 you know, he loves he loves all that stuff. He 02:11:33.079 --> 02:11:38.939 has a genuine, genuine love and interest. You 02:11:38.939 --> 02:11:42.180 know, historically with all of it and and of 02:11:42.180 --> 02:11:46.079 course, you know, in order for people to not 02:11:46.079 --> 02:11:48.439 forget, you know, he's doing his bit, he's doing 02:11:48.439 --> 02:11:52.479 more than that. And so, you know, that's been 02:11:52.479 --> 02:11:55.220 an amazing thing to come out of doing the show. 02:11:55.239 --> 02:11:58.180 And I met, you know. There's Marlene, there's 02:11:58.180 --> 02:12:00.560 Maxine, and there's Eugene Rowe Jr. and his wife, 02:12:00.600 --> 02:12:03.779 Betty. And, you know, I met them during the Paris. 02:12:04.319 --> 02:12:08.100 We had a Normandy premiere, I remember. It was 02:12:08.100 --> 02:12:11.159 HBO built like a cinema or something on the beach 02:12:11.159 --> 02:12:15.579 like they can, obviously. And we had a bus thing 02:12:15.579 --> 02:12:18.100 going down. And I think somebody, we were still 02:12:18.100 --> 02:12:19.840 calling each other by character names at that 02:12:19.840 --> 02:12:24.859 point. And somebody called out Doc. And I turned 02:12:24.859 --> 02:12:28.130 and I saw this. this lady you know and she's 02:12:28.130 --> 02:12:30.069 just looking at looking at me a certain way and 02:12:30.069 --> 02:12:33.350 I just I just knew she's suddenly looking at 02:12:33.350 --> 02:12:36.789 me like I'm the guy that's playing her dad but 02:12:36.789 --> 02:12:39.090 I looked at her knowing that that was one of 02:12:39.090 --> 02:12:42.890 the daughters or a daughter you know and so Maxine 02:12:42.890 --> 02:12:45.939 and I we just you know, embraced and best hug 02:12:45.939 --> 02:12:48.060 I've had to this day. I think it was just a, 02:12:48.079 --> 02:12:50.500 it was just an amazing moment. And, you know, 02:12:50.520 --> 02:12:52.140 I've been to, I've been up to the, you know, 02:12:52.159 --> 02:12:54.060 a lot of them live in Baton Rouge now. And so 02:12:54.060 --> 02:12:56.159 I've been up there and shared king cake and, 02:12:56.199 --> 02:13:00.520 you know, we just sort of, it's just, it's just 02:13:00.520 --> 02:13:02.960 been an amazing thing. You don't know how things 02:13:02.960 --> 02:13:05.760 are going to be received. You don't know whether 02:13:05.760 --> 02:13:09.699 people are going to be, you know, hospitable 02:13:09.699 --> 02:13:13.899 and embracing of it all. But I think. It's gone 02:13:13.899 --> 02:13:18.579 beyond what I could have imagined. And I met 02:13:18.579 --> 02:13:22.319 so many when I was in France, the family and 02:13:22.319 --> 02:13:27.560 the extended family. And each of them were just 02:13:27.560 --> 02:13:31.000 a gem. They're all gems. Louisiana crowd, just 02:13:31.000 --> 02:13:34.939 a great crowd. And Chris is right up there. He's 02:13:34.939 --> 02:13:37.300 just right up there. And I would have been. I 02:13:37.300 --> 02:13:39.699 mean, work was a thing, so I couldn't go to that. 02:13:40.010 --> 02:13:42.909 that was in Normandy recently, but that was part, 02:13:43.029 --> 02:13:45.989 if I could, I would have gone to see him. But 02:13:45.989 --> 02:13:49.090 hopefully I'm going to see him in New Orleans 02:13:49.090 --> 02:13:52.689 later on this summer. So we're going to, you 02:13:52.689 --> 02:13:54.890 know, we'll catch up then. But that's what I 02:13:54.890 --> 02:13:57.710 mean, you know, 20 years and we're still getting 02:13:57.710 --> 02:14:01.140 up to mischief, still getting in trouble. Brilliant. 02:14:01.140 --> 02:14:03.380 So good to hear. People listening, it's Doc Rowe 02:14:03.380 --> 02:14:05.659 Publishing on Instagram is Chris's handle. So 02:14:05.659 --> 02:14:07.539 I think you can find the links to the books. 02:14:08.000 --> 02:14:10.159 Yeah, very good. All right. Well, then transitioning 02:14:10.159 --> 02:14:12.180 out then. So you do this incredible piece of 02:14:12.180 --> 02:14:16.060 television. Firstly, talk to me about the delay 02:14:16.060 --> 02:14:19.500 and when it was really becoming visible. And 02:14:19.500 --> 02:14:22.420 then I'd love to hear about auditioning afterwards 02:14:22.420 --> 02:14:30.689 and horsemanship. remind me to remind me to mention 02:14:30.689 --> 02:14:33.750 about a backflip as well okay I'll put that on 02:14:33.750 --> 02:14:35.609 my notes keep that in your head keep that in 02:14:35.609 --> 02:14:37.729 your head it's not not directly about me but 02:14:37.729 --> 02:14:41.569 keep like it's linked to horses that horsey thing 02:14:41.569 --> 02:14:47.590 so anyway so yeah I don't think the show I mean 02:14:47.590 --> 02:14:51.029 you know obviously it was I can never get this 02:14:51.029 --> 02:14:52.890 quite right I've heard different people talk 02:14:52.890 --> 02:14:54.289 about it at different times and I can't remember 02:14:54.289 --> 02:14:59.390 whether the first episode aired Before 9 -11 02:14:59.390 --> 02:15:02.470 or just after or episode two, I can't quite remember. 02:15:02.649 --> 02:15:06.470 But what I do know is that 9 -11, on its run 02:15:06.470 --> 02:15:08.810 at least, you know, 9 -11 was in and around the 02:15:08.810 --> 02:15:11.310 time. And I was in Colorado. I got stuck in Colorado 02:15:11.310 --> 02:15:16.729 during that period. But my take from all of that, 02:15:16.750 --> 02:15:18.069 and quite rightly, because, I mean, I was just 02:15:18.069 --> 02:15:20.890 glued to the TV and it was all about 24 -7 what 02:15:20.890 --> 02:15:26.409 was going on in the world, you know. So I feel 02:15:26.409 --> 02:15:28.489 like it kind of slipped the radar a little bit, 02:15:28.529 --> 02:15:31.350 slipped the net. But then it started to repeat 02:15:31.350 --> 02:15:34.270 a little bit. But even then, you know, so, you 02:15:34.270 --> 02:15:37.649 know, we went through all that stuff. But I still 02:15:37.649 --> 02:15:40.289 feel like it really didn't gain traction. I mean, 02:15:40.310 --> 02:15:43.430 it only played in the UK, I think, once on the 02:15:43.430 --> 02:15:46.289 BBC, you know. So it didn't repeat and it hasn't, 02:15:46.289 --> 02:15:48.750 you know. Obviously, we have this sort of way 02:15:48.750 --> 02:15:54.399 to stream it now. And I think... I can name networks 02:15:54.399 --> 02:15:57.399 here, can't I, James? Yeah, go for it. Like Sky, 02:15:57.579 --> 02:15:59.060 I think, or something. You can stream it, you 02:15:59.060 --> 02:16:03.380 can download it now sort of thing. But back then, 02:16:03.479 --> 02:16:06.520 it was nothing like that. But I believe in the 02:16:06.520 --> 02:16:09.579 States, my family over there would say, well, 02:16:09.640 --> 02:16:14.359 it's a repeat on History or Spike TV or something 02:16:14.359 --> 02:16:16.859 like that. And they got into a habit of around 02:16:16.859 --> 02:16:18.979 D -Day sort of repeating and having marathons 02:16:18.979 --> 02:16:21.409 and that kind of thing. But I really, truly, 02:16:21.449 --> 02:16:26.109 I think until, as I say, the last 10 years, as 02:16:26.109 --> 02:16:27.949 opposed to the first 10, I think the last 10 02:16:27.949 --> 02:16:32.889 years has really kind of, you know, gained the 02:16:32.889 --> 02:16:37.090 momentum and sort of cemented itself, I suppose, 02:16:37.129 --> 02:16:39.389 if you want, in terms of like a classic series 02:16:39.389 --> 02:16:44.090 to see. You know, it's as far as I can tell, 02:16:44.209 --> 02:16:49.579 you know. You know, and... you know that's great 02:16:49.579 --> 02:16:52.379 i mean i you know early on within those first 02:16:52.379 --> 02:16:54.319 10 years i do remember you know receiving sort 02:16:54.319 --> 02:16:59.600 of stuff you know and fan mail and all the people 02:16:59.600 --> 02:17:01.959 that were around the world put together lovely 02:17:01.959 --> 02:17:04.500 things and all that sort of stuff that were you 02:17:04.500 --> 02:17:06.680 know into the sort of history already so they 02:17:06.680 --> 02:17:08.979 were actively seeking and couldn't wait for something 02:17:08.979 --> 02:17:12.059 like that to come out you know um but then there 02:17:12.059 --> 02:17:13.899 were other people that were not necessarily like 02:17:13.899 --> 02:17:19.180 war genre you know, fans necessarily, not looking 02:17:19.180 --> 02:17:21.479 for it in particular, but in particularly, but 02:17:21.479 --> 02:17:23.399 they would come across it, they would stumble 02:17:23.399 --> 02:17:25.860 upon it. Or someone would say, word of mouth, 02:17:26.059 --> 02:17:28.459 you know, check this out. Well, it's war. Yeah, 02:17:28.479 --> 02:17:30.540 but no, it's a pretty good series. The stories, 02:17:30.579 --> 02:17:33.520 you know, it's like 10 movies, you know, and 02:17:33.520 --> 02:17:36.319 so then that would happen and you'd get that. 02:17:36.459 --> 02:17:38.299 And even now, you know, even now, sort of through 02:17:38.299 --> 02:17:40.219 social media channels, you know, people will 02:17:40.219 --> 02:17:44.319 say, I have never seen this before. Somebody 02:17:44.319 --> 02:17:46.969 mentioned it. And I'm not talking about a kid. 02:17:48.750 --> 02:17:50.350 Older people are coming up and saying, I've never 02:17:50.350 --> 02:17:53.549 seen this before. I've heard about it maybe. 02:17:54.829 --> 02:17:59.469 Watched it. My gosh. And all of those lovely 02:17:59.469 --> 02:18:03.649 things that people can say. But it's kind of 02:18:03.649 --> 02:18:06.770 ongoing. But I do feel like, I mean, somebody 02:18:06.770 --> 02:18:08.649 told me, one of the historian friends of mine, 02:18:08.670 --> 02:18:12.530 I've got a few now, that they talk about reenacting 02:18:12.530 --> 02:18:15.340 groups that have... There were always kind of 02:18:15.340 --> 02:18:16.979 reenacting groups in and around it. But that 02:18:16.979 --> 02:18:20.780 show in particular that kind of like spawn these 02:18:20.780 --> 02:18:24.319 paratrooper, you know, Screaming Eagle outfits, 02:18:24.540 --> 02:18:28.520 you know. So when you go and you do these like 02:18:28.520 --> 02:18:32.079 D -Day events now, I mean, it's incredible. The 02:18:32.079 --> 02:18:33.979 scenes are incredible. And there are just so 02:18:33.979 --> 02:18:37.020 many dressed up, so many reenacting groups. But 02:18:37.020 --> 02:18:39.780 it actually goes beyond uniform. You know, there 02:18:39.780 --> 02:18:42.469 are civilians now. places like Carentan or whatever, 02:18:42.629 --> 02:18:45.729 that dress up in those period outfits. Maybe 02:18:45.729 --> 02:18:47.909 some of the, it's a bit Truman show this, but 02:18:47.909 --> 02:18:49.930 you know, you have like hidden speaker systems 02:18:49.930 --> 02:18:51.969 all over the town where they're just blasting 02:18:51.969 --> 02:18:55.569 out, you know, Edith Piaf or something like that. 02:18:55.610 --> 02:18:56.909 You know, it's just kind of like, there's some 02:18:56.909 --> 02:18:59.729 kind of stuff going on there that you're just, 02:18:59.809 --> 02:19:01.889 you're all, you're just thrown back. It's like 02:19:01.889 --> 02:19:06.010 a time capsule, you know, amazing stuff. But 02:19:06.010 --> 02:19:08.489 yeah, I think it's kind of been responsible for 02:19:08.489 --> 02:19:12.889 this big reenacting. rebirth that has just gone 02:19:12.889 --> 02:19:18.889 from strength to strength. And it's just been 02:19:18.889 --> 02:19:25.809 humbling to see and it's a real pleasure to see 02:19:25.809 --> 02:19:28.430 that it's still being able to. And the other 02:19:28.430 --> 02:19:31.290 thing about it as well is that these sorts of 02:19:31.290 --> 02:19:34.610 things territorially play out at different points. 02:19:34.670 --> 02:19:37.209 So I think initially within those first five 02:19:37.209 --> 02:19:39.280 years, let's say. You know, there were countries 02:19:39.280 --> 02:19:40.920 and territories that were not getting it. They 02:19:40.920 --> 02:19:43.379 hadn't seen it yet, you know, and it would take 02:19:43.379 --> 02:19:45.260 a few years before they even got their first 02:19:45.260 --> 02:19:48.979 shot at it. So, you know what I mean? So it took 02:19:48.979 --> 02:19:50.760 a little while for things to kind of get up to 02:19:50.760 --> 02:19:54.639 speed. And then, you know, once we get into the 02:19:54.639 --> 02:19:57.879 way that the TV works now, you know, it's pretty 02:19:57.879 --> 02:20:02.860 accessible and easier to find. But then obviously, 02:20:03.020 --> 02:20:05.870 you know, when those... blu -rays were coming 02:20:05.870 --> 02:20:08.250 out the dvds things or then the blu -rays came 02:20:08.250 --> 02:20:11.170 out you know people were seeing it in all sorts 02:20:11.170 --> 02:20:14.670 of different ways and and um yeah it's still 02:20:14.670 --> 02:20:18.250 bizarre to me to be i feel proud you know to 02:20:18.250 --> 02:20:21.610 be it's you can be in a shit ton of stuff you 02:20:21.610 --> 02:20:24.729 know a shit ton nobody's nobody really sees it 02:20:24.729 --> 02:20:27.790 even if they see it this doesn't you know once 02:20:27.790 --> 02:20:30.069 it's done it's done this doesn't seem to be done 02:20:30.399 --> 02:20:32.040 You know, it's always there. And people keep, 02:20:32.079 --> 02:20:33.700 I don't go out looking for it either. People 02:20:33.700 --> 02:20:36.819 feel like, you know, keep talking about it or 02:20:36.819 --> 02:20:40.299 keep, you know, James came to me. I didn't go 02:20:40.299 --> 02:20:44.239 to James. It's like, you know, I'm not looking 02:20:44.239 --> 02:20:45.760 to kind of put myself out there and go, hey, 02:20:45.899 --> 02:20:48.920 remember me like a, you know, a one hit wonder 02:20:48.920 --> 02:20:51.600 musician talking about a record, you know, X 02:20:51.600 --> 02:20:53.920 amount of years ago. But it's not that. It's 02:20:53.920 --> 02:20:56.500 just the impact of the show. And people want 02:20:56.500 --> 02:20:59.409 to, and because of those, But fundamentally, 02:20:59.690 --> 02:21:03.389 because of what it is, which is, you know, something 02:21:03.389 --> 02:21:06.309 worth, as we've talked about before, it goes, 02:21:06.389 --> 02:21:08.930 it's bigger than a job. It's bigger. It's a, 02:21:08.930 --> 02:21:13.329 it is that gateway. It is something about, you 02:21:13.329 --> 02:21:16.389 know, honouring this group of people that were 02:21:16.389 --> 02:21:18.850 kind of a cog in a big machine, but an important 02:21:18.850 --> 02:21:22.530 cog and trying to sort of tell their story, you 02:21:22.530 --> 02:21:25.610 know, and their piece of history. You know, that's, 02:21:25.610 --> 02:21:27.969 that's an important thing to keep out there. 02:21:28.559 --> 02:21:30.420 You know, it's not about an actor wanting to 02:21:30.420 --> 02:21:33.760 remain relevant. You know, it's that's that's 02:21:33.760 --> 02:21:36.280 cheap. And it's it's it's it's just not it's 02:21:36.280 --> 02:21:38.920 just not that, you know, you you have to be about 02:21:38.920 --> 02:21:44.659 the perseverance of of what we did in terms of 02:21:44.659 --> 02:21:49.020 like trying to kind of educate, you know, future 02:21:49.020 --> 02:21:51.719 generations. And and I really like whenever I 02:21:51.719 --> 02:21:54.500 talk to the young, you know, young kids and stuff 02:21:54.500 --> 02:21:56.920 like that, you know, it's always about, you know. 02:21:57.770 --> 02:22:01.510 go go try and read up now you know properly about 02:22:01.510 --> 02:22:03.129 certain things because you know there is that 02:22:03.129 --> 02:22:06.409 obviously there's that thing that happens where 02:22:06.409 --> 02:22:08.709 artistic license comes into play and there is 02:22:08.709 --> 02:22:11.750 a natural element of entertainment that you're 02:22:11.750 --> 02:22:14.549 constantly shifting there's a gap that exists 02:22:14.549 --> 02:22:18.489 between historical accuracy 100 which really 02:22:18.489 --> 02:22:21.649 doesn't really doesn't happen really and that 02:22:21.649 --> 02:22:23.329 sort of entertainment factor you know in terms 02:22:23.329 --> 02:22:26.149 of like What we got and the validate, even the 02:22:26.149 --> 02:22:28.069 vets understood that to a certain degree, you 02:22:28.069 --> 02:22:31.149 know, with certain things and certain poetic 02:22:31.149 --> 02:22:37.549 license maneuvers, you know. But as good as you 02:22:37.549 --> 02:22:39.729 could to make that gap as small as you could, 02:22:39.770 --> 02:22:42.129 you know, as fine as you could. That was our 02:22:42.129 --> 02:22:44.190 aim. And I think more often than not, you know, 02:22:44.250 --> 02:22:46.069 we were getting somewhere. But, you know, you 02:22:46.069 --> 02:22:50.260 talk to any historian and. and I have now, you 02:22:50.260 --> 02:22:52.520 know, to get my own sort of understanding about 02:22:52.520 --> 02:22:54.139 it. Well, they go, well, that age station was 02:22:54.139 --> 02:22:56.420 not there. It was never there. It was over here. 02:22:56.500 --> 02:22:58.739 It was just around the corner. It wasn't a church. 02:22:58.819 --> 02:23:00.440 It was this place, you know. And you go, ah, 02:23:00.500 --> 02:23:02.459 okay. Well, it did exist then. She would have 02:23:02.459 --> 02:23:04.239 been there. Yeah, but she wouldn't have met him, 02:23:04.239 --> 02:23:06.260 but he wouldn't have met her. Okay, well, that 02:23:06.260 --> 02:23:08.680 didn't happen. They may have done, but this other 02:23:08.680 --> 02:23:11.899 medic found this nurse or whatever it is. And, 02:23:11.959 --> 02:23:13.780 you know, so you put those dots together. So 02:23:13.780 --> 02:23:16.989 there are things that you can understand. that 02:23:16.989 --> 02:23:18.690 happened within the screenwriting and what they 02:23:18.690 --> 02:23:20.809 wanted to tell. I mean, Band of Brothers wasn't 02:23:20.809 --> 02:23:23.989 only telling its own story about Easy Company. 02:23:24.190 --> 02:23:28.069 It was trying to infuse other elements of that 02:23:28.069 --> 02:23:30.950 period of history and other stories like Rene 02:23:30.950 --> 02:23:33.250 Lemaire, that Belgian nurse who was in Bastogne 02:23:33.250 --> 02:23:35.670 actively. I've been to where she, I've been to 02:23:35.670 --> 02:23:38.489 her family home. I've been to where her aid station 02:23:38.489 --> 02:23:41.049 actually was, which wasn't far from her home. 02:23:41.209 --> 02:23:42.909 You know, I've seen where she would have operated 02:23:42.909 --> 02:23:45.309 with Augusta Chewy, who Augusta went on, the 02:23:45.309 --> 02:23:47.590 Congolese nurse went on to live into her nineties. 02:23:47.629 --> 02:23:49.950 You know, I've seen that. I've seen where they 02:23:49.950 --> 02:23:51.909 operated, but were they truly part of the Easy 02:23:51.909 --> 02:23:55.129 Company experience? Probably not, you know, but 02:23:55.129 --> 02:23:57.110 they were there. They were in and around it. 02:23:57.549 --> 02:24:00.030 Here's a medic story to tell. Let's try and tell 02:24:00.030 --> 02:24:02.700 that her story. In fact. And by the very nature 02:24:02.700 --> 02:24:04.819 of band of brothers coming into effect and being 02:24:04.819 --> 02:24:07.940 out there, it's enabled those people, the people 02:24:07.940 --> 02:24:10.719 of Bastogne, especially to have, and Chris and 02:24:10.719 --> 02:24:13.579 I went out there, we unveiled a memorial to best, 02:24:13.579 --> 02:24:16.459 uh, to Renee and Augusta. It just wouldn't have 02:24:16.459 --> 02:24:19.760 happened without the show being part of that. 02:24:20.680 --> 02:24:25.120 Um, but part of that, uh, part of the, uh, what 02:24:25.120 --> 02:24:27.299 do I want to say? Part of the part, part of the 02:24:27.299 --> 02:24:30.020 story really just for the voice. part of the 02:24:30.020 --> 02:24:33.260 voice part of the the groundwork enabling them 02:24:33.260 --> 02:24:35.819 they knew who they were but it's just now it 02:24:35.819 --> 02:24:40.079 gave them this real moment and an official in 02:24:40.079 --> 02:24:42.979 an official capacity it gave them a moment to 02:24:42.979 --> 02:24:47.459 celebrate their native angels you know and then 02:24:47.459 --> 02:24:51.479 so it was you know there's some good some good 02:24:51.479 --> 02:24:57.000 stuff and so i've lost my foxhole again james 02:24:57.000 --> 02:24:59.940 we're good we're good so after the band of brothers 02:24:59.940 --> 02:25:01.819 like you said it took it took quite a while to 02:25:01.819 --> 02:25:04.899 to take hold i mean i've watched it hands down 02:25:04.899 --> 02:25:07.079 more than i've watched any other show or film 02:25:07.079 --> 02:25:09.319 ever you know as far as number of times i've 02:25:09.319 --> 02:25:11.979 watched i think it's i think of either five or 02:25:11.979 --> 02:25:14.079 six times now which is you know unheard of for 02:25:14.079 --> 02:25:18.110 anything else um So, you know, we're we've been 02:25:18.110 --> 02:25:19.809 chatting for almost two and a half hours, but 02:25:19.809 --> 02:25:22.010 I don't want to let you go without hearing the 02:25:22.010 --> 02:25:24.670 horse stories. I think we chatted prior. It was 02:25:24.670 --> 02:25:26.770 a kind of afterthought at the end of our previous 02:25:26.770 --> 02:25:28.530 conversation. So I want to make sure that we 02:25:28.530 --> 02:25:31.530 get it on tape. So talk to me about, you know, 02:25:31.549 --> 02:25:34.329 that audition story. And then as you prompted 02:25:34.329 --> 02:25:37.690 me, the backflip and where that carries in. We've 02:25:37.690 --> 02:25:40.590 we've all I mean, we've you know, we're in danger 02:25:40.590 --> 02:25:43.530 of particular podcast interview going on for 02:25:43.530 --> 02:25:46.100 the entire. length of the band of brothers series 02:25:46.100 --> 02:25:49.360 but um i'll try and be as quick as i can on this 02:25:49.360 --> 02:25:52.920 um so i i don't want to i don't want to name 02:25:52.920 --> 02:25:55.180 names too much in this but i went to i went had 02:25:55.180 --> 02:25:58.920 a so i went out for another uh job that was um 02:25:58.920 --> 02:26:04.959 it was a a period piece revolutionary war and 02:26:04.959 --> 02:26:14.440 uh um and it was all kind of um I've got to be 02:26:14.440 --> 02:26:16.659 careful where it's not like I'm going to be subpoenaed 02:26:16.659 --> 02:26:19.020 or anything, is it? But I'm so I'm so anyway, 02:26:19.059 --> 02:26:21.579 I get this thing and it's it was for a particular 02:26:21.579 --> 02:26:24.459 part, particular captain. And like these things, 02:26:24.559 --> 02:26:27.040 when you go into an audition room, you know, 02:26:27.059 --> 02:26:28.780 it's like there are you know, you put down what 02:26:28.780 --> 02:26:30.239 skills you've got, whether you can play guitar, 02:26:30.299 --> 02:26:31.659 play a bit of guitar, you know, so you put down 02:26:31.659 --> 02:26:35.059 that and you know, can you ride a horse? You 02:26:35.059 --> 02:26:37.100 know, so. And, you know, even if you're not that 02:26:37.100 --> 02:26:38.920 great at any of these things, you kind of, when 02:26:38.920 --> 02:26:41.020 you're asked about that, especially if you, like 02:26:41.020 --> 02:26:42.719 I was saying earlier, you get that Jedi sense 02:26:42.719 --> 02:26:44.620 of feeling like you're getting somewhere and 02:26:44.620 --> 02:26:46.700 that they like you. So you feel like, you know, 02:26:46.780 --> 02:26:47.940 I'm not going to say I can't do any of these 02:26:47.940 --> 02:26:50.780 things, not now. So in this particular thing, 02:26:50.920 --> 02:26:54.459 in this particular role, they're asking if I 02:26:54.459 --> 02:26:55.819 can ride a horse. And I said, yeah, of course, 02:26:55.819 --> 02:26:57.799 you know. It'd been about 10 years since I'd 02:26:57.799 --> 02:26:59.920 actually got on one, probably longer than that, 02:27:00.000 --> 02:27:04.000 and had a mild trot, right? That's about it. 02:27:04.040 --> 02:27:09.440 That's it. But with confidence, you know, I'm 02:27:09.440 --> 02:27:10.819 saying, yeah, no, no, no, that's no problem. 02:27:10.920 --> 02:27:13.420 You know, so thinking nothing of it. I don't 02:27:13.420 --> 02:27:15.659 think I was given a proper script at that point. 02:27:15.719 --> 02:27:18.059 They were just, again, just a few sides, a few 02:27:18.059 --> 02:27:22.579 pages of dialogue. But again, it was one of those 02:27:22.579 --> 02:27:25.479 things I was coming back and that would be a 02:27:25.479 --> 02:27:27.979 question. And that was the unusual thing that 02:27:27.979 --> 02:27:29.899 the second time I went back, they asked again. 02:27:29.940 --> 02:27:31.959 And I just thought, well, maybe they forgot from 02:27:31.959 --> 02:27:37.780 last time. And then the third time, I think it 02:27:37.780 --> 02:27:40.559 was one of those where I'm like, something's 02:27:40.559 --> 02:27:44.979 up here. What do they want me to do? And the 02:27:44.979 --> 02:27:47.819 weird thing about it is that they said, if you 02:27:47.819 --> 02:27:52.659 could grade yourself on a horse, what would it 02:27:52.659 --> 02:27:55.100 be? How would you grade yourself on a horse? 02:27:56.239 --> 02:28:00.899 Out of 10. And I said, wow. And then my mind's 02:28:00.899 --> 02:28:03.729 spinning. I'm starting to panic internally, but 02:28:03.729 --> 02:28:07.469 at the same time, game face. So I said, well, 02:28:07.530 --> 02:28:10.809 I'm about a, I'm about seven, I guess. But if, 02:28:10.809 --> 02:28:12.629 you know, if you've got the, if the training's 02:28:12.629 --> 02:28:14.489 there, if you've got training, you know, and 02:28:14.489 --> 02:28:16.670 this was going to be shot in Romania, maybe an 02:28:16.670 --> 02:28:19.149 eight, which was really ridiculous, you know, 02:28:19.209 --> 02:28:24.030 light years ahead of what I actually am. So we, 02:28:24.049 --> 02:28:26.790 oh, that's fabulous. This is great. This is going 02:28:26.790 --> 02:28:31.760 to work. I go away and get this role. Pretty 02:28:31.760 --> 02:28:37.340 good role, you know. My thinking is I had about 02:28:37.340 --> 02:28:40.120 three weeks or so to get horse riding lessons. 02:28:40.299 --> 02:28:44.799 So I went to a local stable, stables, lovely 02:28:44.799 --> 02:28:49.479 lady called Sharon with an even sweeter horse 02:28:49.479 --> 02:28:53.840 called Katie. And so there I was on Katie learning 02:28:53.840 --> 02:28:57.379 the basics. Fairly straightforward. I thought, 02:28:57.420 --> 02:29:02.239 this is pretty neat. I'm born for this. So we 02:29:02.239 --> 02:29:04.780 did a few of those. And then I got the call from 02:29:04.780 --> 02:29:06.579 the history channel. We're doing, it was a history 02:29:06.579 --> 02:29:08.799 channel. It was a New York offices, a call up 02:29:08.799 --> 02:29:12.219 or something. And they said, okay, you, we want 02:29:12.219 --> 02:29:15.059 you to, they want to test. Why don't you, when 02:29:15.059 --> 02:29:16.959 you're on film testing, the camera testing you 02:29:16.959 --> 02:29:20.420 on the horse. And immediately again, I'm like, 02:29:20.520 --> 02:29:24.600 oh my God, what is this? What do they want me 02:29:24.600 --> 02:29:26.399 to do? You know? And I'm, so then I'm sort of 02:29:26.399 --> 02:29:28.459 like, I got, got one of the scripts, I think. 02:29:29.360 --> 02:29:31.479 And there was something within the script that 02:29:31.479 --> 02:29:36.200 was about taking a hit, taking a musket shot. 02:29:37.139 --> 02:29:40.299 And then my character was sort of flipped on 02:29:40.299 --> 02:29:45.100 the side or under the horse, you know. And I'm 02:29:45.100 --> 02:29:48.260 like, but again, I'm rationalizing that thinking, 02:29:48.479 --> 02:29:51.159 well, I'm not going to be doing that. They're 02:29:51.159 --> 02:29:53.479 not going to, you know, ensure that's a stunt. 02:29:53.600 --> 02:29:56.239 That's you, James. James comes in, takes over 02:29:56.239 --> 02:29:59.690 that stunt. And then we wrap for the day, you 02:29:59.690 --> 02:30:03.809 know. So that's in my head all of a sudden. I'm 02:30:03.809 --> 02:30:06.049 going, oh, my God. So then I'm on to the agent. 02:30:06.090 --> 02:30:09.790 I'm saying, listen, they want to test me on this 02:30:09.790 --> 02:30:11.510 thing. You know about my horse riding ability 02:30:11.510 --> 02:30:14.629 or lack of it. You've got to give me a few days 02:30:14.629 --> 02:30:18.190 before. I'm having lessons. Just buy me a few 02:30:18.190 --> 02:30:21.950 days, you know. In fact, I think I said a week, 02:30:21.969 --> 02:30:23.770 but he got a few days. That was it. And then 02:30:23.770 --> 02:30:26.610 all of a sudden. I'm on this, I'm in this car. 02:30:26.909 --> 02:30:30.250 I'm being ridden up to, uh, driven up to, uh, 02:30:30.350 --> 02:30:33.690 this, I called it the devil's horse ranch, which 02:30:33.690 --> 02:30:35.829 was never a good sign. If, if there was any sign, 02:30:36.010 --> 02:30:39.750 uh, that was going to be good. But I, I, I just 02:30:39.750 --> 02:30:43.250 remember a lot of the stunt horses because they 02:30:43.250 --> 02:30:45.549 had loads and they, a lot of them have been shipped 02:30:45.549 --> 02:30:47.989 out to Romania, but I was left with the sort 02:30:47.989 --> 02:30:50.809 of the big chief of it all, you know? And, uh, 02:30:50.969 --> 02:30:55.129 I guess I could, well, he, He was a sweet guy, 02:30:55.229 --> 02:30:58.010 French guy, sat in the kitchen. We were breaking 02:30:58.010 --> 02:31:00.049 bread. We were sharing coffee. We were laughing. 02:31:00.090 --> 02:31:01.629 We were joking. He was a funny guy. And he's 02:31:01.629 --> 02:31:06.870 telling me all about his horse life. And then 02:31:06.870 --> 02:31:09.450 he had a partner who was kind of going to do 02:31:09.450 --> 02:31:13.309 the filming. So after all that was done, I thought 02:31:13.309 --> 02:31:16.030 I was kind of relaxed at this point. I was thinking 02:31:16.030 --> 02:31:18.549 this is going to be good. He's going to be on 02:31:18.549 --> 02:31:21.610 my side. There's no problem here. We'll get through 02:31:21.610 --> 02:31:26.299 this and it's done. So we go into this. I do 02:31:26.299 --> 02:31:28.200 remember going past the horses that were left 02:31:28.200 --> 02:31:30.940 that were not going to go out. I do remember, 02:31:31.020 --> 02:31:32.940 again, this was another thing that was sort of 02:31:32.940 --> 02:31:35.479 like a foreshadowing event. They were flinching 02:31:35.479 --> 02:31:38.440 slightly as he and he was just going past sort 02:31:38.440 --> 02:31:40.819 of flinching. And I was like, OK, they know who 02:31:40.819 --> 02:31:44.500 the boss is. And and I think I was starting to 02:31:44.500 --> 02:31:47.149 sort of. I was starting to get a little bit nervous 02:31:47.149 --> 02:31:50.030 then, and I remember seeing the horse that he 02:31:50.030 --> 02:31:52.510 was going to put me on. It was an indoor arena 02:31:52.510 --> 02:31:55.229 that he went in, that he built. It was huge, 02:31:55.450 --> 02:31:58.809 or it seemed like that. And this horse, so I 02:31:58.809 --> 02:32:01.790 went from this lovely horse called Katie to this 02:32:01.790 --> 02:32:06.510 huge nightmare of a horse called Jeffrey. Again, 02:32:06.590 --> 02:32:08.430 Jeffrey doesn't really sell it, does it? But 02:32:08.430 --> 02:32:12.649 it was huge, and he knew for damn sure I wasn't 02:32:12.649 --> 02:32:16.280 a 7 out of 10, you know. or even an eight with 02:32:16.280 --> 02:32:19.379 training of course but uh so i got on this thing 02:32:19.379 --> 02:32:22.799 i tried to get jeff into gear jeff didn't want 02:32:22.799 --> 02:32:26.780 to know uh the chief got on his horse and he 02:32:26.780 --> 02:32:30.139 was kind of riding off and uh i was saying come 02:32:30.139 --> 02:32:32.860 on jeff come on man you know just start just 02:32:32.860 --> 02:32:36.819 start you know using my training that i had um 02:32:36.819 --> 02:32:41.940 i don't think jeff i don't think jeff cut I didn't 02:32:41.940 --> 02:32:44.319 have any control. It was all about Jeff, but 02:32:44.319 --> 02:32:46.700 he cut me some slack. He started to move. And 02:32:46.700 --> 02:32:48.280 then we sort of left or right, we're going around. 02:32:48.540 --> 02:32:50.879 And then the first time I've ever done this in 02:32:50.879 --> 02:32:52.219 my life, in fact, I probably didn't even know 02:32:52.219 --> 02:32:55.200 what the word meant. We went out for a hack, 02:32:55.360 --> 02:32:56.959 you know, a mild hack. We were just going to 02:32:56.959 --> 02:32:59.899 go outside of the arena and go to this outer 02:32:59.899 --> 02:33:02.959 field. And this outer field was going to be the 02:33:02.959 --> 02:33:06.540 place we were going to do the filming. And so 02:33:06.540 --> 02:33:09.360 there I was, you know, Jeff. Every now and then 02:33:09.360 --> 02:33:12.420 Jeff would stall. look at me with disdain and 02:33:12.420 --> 02:33:14.959 then start up again. But I remember the gap between 02:33:14.959 --> 02:33:17.200 me and the chief, you know, it was getting wider 02:33:17.200 --> 02:33:19.100 and wider. And I was like, Geoffrey, you've got 02:33:19.100 --> 02:33:22.180 to split the difference, man. And then I remember 02:33:22.180 --> 02:33:24.440 the chief looking back at me at one point, he 02:33:24.440 --> 02:33:26.559 was like, oh, you're not a rider. You're not 02:33:26.559 --> 02:33:29.299 a rider. You know, he knew, I think they all 02:33:29.299 --> 02:33:32.700 knew that I was not a rider. And this was going 02:33:32.700 --> 02:33:36.700 to be, you know, bordering on, you know, sort 02:33:36.700 --> 02:33:41.709 of a serious injury. I was thinking, oh, my God, 02:33:41.790 --> 02:33:44.770 what am I getting into? Do I call this? Do I 02:33:44.770 --> 02:33:47.370 come clean? Or do I go for it and just hope for 02:33:47.370 --> 02:33:50.030 the best? I mean, Jeff knows the routes. He knows 02:33:50.030 --> 02:33:52.489 what he's doing. You know, some people, you know, 02:33:52.489 --> 02:33:54.670 dog walkers, if the dog's done, if it's an old 02:33:54.670 --> 02:33:56.809 dog, it knows the route. You don't need to take 02:33:56.809 --> 02:33:58.690 the dog for a walk. And that's how I felt like, 02:33:58.709 --> 02:34:00.750 well, you do need to take it, but, you know, 02:34:00.770 --> 02:34:02.909 he knows where it's going, so don't worry about 02:34:02.909 --> 02:34:05.250 it. I felt like Jeff was the same thing. Jeff 02:34:05.250 --> 02:34:07.110 knows what he's doing here. Maybe he'll just 02:34:07.110 --> 02:34:10.180 take it over and make me look good. And so we 02:34:10.180 --> 02:34:12.000 get to this point where we get this out of field 02:34:12.000 --> 02:34:14.559 and then the chief's partner comes up with the 02:34:14.559 --> 02:34:17.379 camera. And I jokingly say something about, you 02:34:17.379 --> 02:34:19.180 know, make sure you make me look good. You know, 02:34:19.239 --> 02:34:22.159 choice cuts. Let's do the choice cuts because 02:34:22.159 --> 02:34:24.200 she was going to edit and all this stuff. Oh, 02:34:24.260 --> 02:34:26.780 yeah. Don't worry. We'll do all that. So I have 02:34:26.780 --> 02:34:29.959 this helmet thing on, which was a size too big. 02:34:30.000 --> 02:34:32.440 It seemed it was sort of starting to slip. But 02:34:32.440 --> 02:34:34.200 the other thing which I forgot to say is that 02:34:34.200 --> 02:34:37.540 the chief gave me this crop. riding crop that 02:34:37.540 --> 02:34:40.260 no way on earth was I going to use it on this 02:34:40.260 --> 02:34:45.360 Jeff, you know. But, you know, I held it. And 02:34:45.360 --> 02:34:48.420 so we're on this field and I'm sort of trotting 02:34:48.420 --> 02:34:51.579 around. Sun was out. It was a beautiful day, 02:34:51.620 --> 02:34:54.719 actually. And the chief starts to kind of do 02:34:54.719 --> 02:34:58.799 his thing. I'm not doing anything other than 02:34:58.799 --> 02:35:03.340 just Jeff doing his bit. camera starts to roll. 02:35:03.520 --> 02:35:05.579 So my game phase, I'm supposed to be this captain 02:35:05.579 --> 02:35:07.360 for goodness sake, you know, let's just this, 02:35:07.440 --> 02:35:11.299 this game phase. And then, so I'm sort of getting 02:35:11.299 --> 02:35:12.659 into it and then I'm thinking, all right, let's 02:35:12.659 --> 02:35:14.239 try and get it. Let's try and get Jeff into a 02:35:14.239 --> 02:35:16.680 canter, which is always the trickiest thing anyway, 02:35:16.719 --> 02:35:18.520 isn't it? We try to rhythmically go with that. 02:35:19.139 --> 02:35:21.379 And, uh, it's not really happening that much. 02:35:21.379 --> 02:35:25.659 And then out of nowhere, the chief cracks, Jeff's 02:35:25.659 --> 02:35:33.819 rawhide. And Jeff, like it's almost like warp 02:35:33.819 --> 02:35:37.459 speed. It felt like the Millennium Falcon doing 02:35:37.459 --> 02:35:41.100 hyperdrive or something. I just went off. I just, 02:35:41.200 --> 02:35:43.159 and I've never, I've never galloped in my life. 02:35:43.340 --> 02:35:45.540 I never got to that point. I didn't have enough 02:35:45.540 --> 02:35:47.379 lessons with Katie. You know, it was just like, 02:35:47.440 --> 02:35:51.360 I went off and I just held on for dear life. 02:35:51.540 --> 02:35:54.559 I mean, the weird thing about it is that I, there 02:35:54.559 --> 02:35:58.840 was no sort of, you know, it was, we were gliding. 02:35:58.959 --> 02:36:01.459 I didn't feel like, You know, again, it comes 02:36:01.459 --> 02:36:03.120 back to Jeff. He knew where he was going. He 02:36:03.120 --> 02:36:05.200 knew what he was doing. It was all about Jeff. 02:36:05.299 --> 02:36:09.700 I had no control. I was Captain Useless. But 02:36:09.700 --> 02:36:12.000 the way he was going and the way I was trying 02:36:12.000 --> 02:36:14.600 to do the sort of game face, you know, initially 02:36:14.600 --> 02:36:17.180 I was like, oh my God, oh my God. Then getting 02:36:17.180 --> 02:36:20.020 the game face, but I wasn't going to let go of 02:36:20.020 --> 02:36:22.180 those reins. And what was happening was the helmet 02:36:22.180 --> 02:36:26.000 was starting to slide over my eyes. So I couldn't 02:36:26.000 --> 02:36:28.299 see, I couldn't see where I was going after time. 02:36:28.680 --> 02:36:31.100 And then I was going around. I found myself turning. 02:36:31.139 --> 02:36:32.719 I tried to do a turn or something like that. 02:36:33.120 --> 02:36:35.219 The camera's going on. He's going, this is great. 02:36:35.299 --> 02:36:37.959 This is great. Whatever. And we're riding back 02:36:37.959 --> 02:36:42.600 and forth. This went on. It felt like an age. 02:36:42.700 --> 02:36:44.299 I don't know. I don't know how long it went on 02:36:44.299 --> 02:36:46.739 for, but we just, we were going, it was just 02:36:46.739 --> 02:36:49.000 going on forever. It seemed like, and I don't 02:36:49.000 --> 02:36:51.659 even know how I managed to stop Jeff, you know, 02:36:51.680 --> 02:36:55.159 let alone turn him. But something happened where 02:36:55.159 --> 02:37:01.799 I survived. I got off. I do remember the driver 02:37:01.799 --> 02:37:05.040 chuckling at me when I was approached him getting 02:37:05.040 --> 02:37:07.239 back into the car. And I thought, you know something, 02:37:07.360 --> 02:37:12.440 I don't. And then getting back home. And I don't 02:37:12.440 --> 02:37:15.239 even think because my way to get home back to 02:37:15.239 --> 02:37:19.159 the village, you know, was quite a convoluted 02:37:19.159 --> 02:37:22.979 thing. somehow they'd seen everything. So by 02:37:22.979 --> 02:37:25.120 the time I got back to the sort of this station 02:37:25.120 --> 02:37:28.399 that I was at in the village, I was walking to 02:37:28.399 --> 02:37:31.360 my car. I had a call come in. And it was like, 02:37:31.440 --> 02:37:38.459 they've seen it. They saw the stuff. And I went, 02:37:38.540 --> 02:37:40.100 you're kidding me. They've seen it already. He 02:37:40.100 --> 02:37:41.239 said, no, no, no. They just sent it straight 02:37:41.239 --> 02:37:44.040 through. No problem. You know, good job. They 02:37:44.040 --> 02:37:50.610 said one thing. uh one thing that stood out i 02:37:50.610 --> 02:37:52.489 said yeah he said they thought you looked a bit 02:37:52.489 --> 02:37:58.889 petrified and i was like ah you know yeah yeah 02:37:58.889 --> 02:38:02.290 that was i don't know you know um that's probably 02:38:02.290 --> 02:38:03.750 right that's probably right he said yeah but 02:38:03.750 --> 02:38:05.870 you know don't worry was i mean they seem they 02:38:05.870 --> 02:38:09.850 seem they seem happy enough about it so um that 02:38:09.850 --> 02:38:11.770 was the end of the the conversation you know 02:38:11.770 --> 02:38:16.239 the report that i was petrified a good job And 02:38:16.239 --> 02:38:18.399 so I don't quite know how that relates sort of, 02:38:18.399 --> 02:38:21.639 you know, tally it up. In fact, it didn't really 02:38:21.639 --> 02:38:24.440 tally up because within, I don't know, it was 02:38:24.440 --> 02:38:27.379 another call came through just to say that I 02:38:27.379 --> 02:38:30.000 was fired. So it was one of those where I felt 02:38:30.000 --> 02:38:32.659 like, yeah, this is great. This is great. And 02:38:32.659 --> 02:38:35.059 I do remember sort of drowning my sorrows and 02:38:35.059 --> 02:38:37.159 thinking, oh, no, I went to some sort of country 02:38:37.159 --> 02:38:39.420 pub somewhere and thinking what a ridiculous 02:38:39.420 --> 02:38:41.280 thing, because of the process of going through 02:38:41.280 --> 02:38:43.059 all of those auditions and all that sort of stuff, 02:38:43.059 --> 02:38:45.500 you know. but thinking, oh, why did I say I was 02:38:45.500 --> 02:38:47.100 seven out of 10 and then an eight out of 10 or 02:38:47.100 --> 02:38:48.719 whatever it was, you know, but it's like, you've 02:38:48.719 --> 02:38:50.379 got to try it, man. You just got to go for it. 02:38:50.600 --> 02:38:53.379 But fortunately I, because I put so much on tape, 02:38:53.459 --> 02:38:56.540 not horse riding aside, just acting wise, uh, 02:38:56.680 --> 02:38:58.860 you know, they, they, they, they wanted me in 02:38:58.860 --> 02:39:00.959 the show. So they, there was another captain 02:39:00.959 --> 02:39:03.379 and they, they said, we want you to be this captain. 02:39:03.520 --> 02:39:07.600 He's in a wheelchair. So it'd be perfect. You 02:39:07.600 --> 02:39:09.940 know, the good news they did say is that he doesn't 02:39:09.940 --> 02:39:13.250 ride, you know? So, After all that, you know, 02:39:13.290 --> 02:39:15.350 I was the I was the captain on foot. But even 02:39:15.350 --> 02:39:17.670 and I was obviously pleased to be in it because 02:39:17.670 --> 02:39:19.889 I got into the show, you know, and it was a really 02:39:19.889 --> 02:39:22.790 great thing to be a part of. But at the same 02:39:22.790 --> 02:39:24.430 time, I was thinking I had enough horse riding 02:39:24.430 --> 02:39:28.489 behind me to at least come in, get off and go 02:39:28.489 --> 02:39:32.069 into a tavern or come out of that tavern drunkenly, 02:39:32.069 --> 02:39:34.950 get on it. And because I even had enough confidence 02:39:34.950 --> 02:39:37.610 to sort of act in a drunken way as long as I 02:39:37.610 --> 02:39:39.979 was only. trotting off you know or something 02:39:39.979 --> 02:39:41.600 just give me something with the horse just to 02:39:41.600 --> 02:39:44.360 kind of as a as a marker you know that i i did 02:39:44.360 --> 02:39:47.020 something did some prep but it never it wasn't 02:39:47.020 --> 02:39:50.459 to be you know um so you know but i mentioned 02:39:50.459 --> 02:39:53.280 the uh the that backflip thing is only because 02:39:53.280 --> 02:39:56.000 this wasn't me but it happens to be my like favorite 02:39:56.000 --> 02:39:57.319 because there's always an horrendous audition 02:39:57.319 --> 02:39:59.100 story everybody every actor will tell you that 02:39:59.100 --> 02:40:01.180 i mean if if you get any other actors you know 02:40:01.180 --> 02:40:03.700 down the line on this you know just get them 02:40:03.700 --> 02:40:07.159 to push push one out because it's They're everywhere. 02:40:07.739 --> 02:40:11.559 We're riddled with them. But my friend, it was 02:40:11.559 --> 02:40:13.059 some sort of commercial. In fact, he's in the 02:40:13.059 --> 02:40:15.559 show. His name's Bart Ruspily. He plays Ed Tipper 02:40:15.559 --> 02:40:20.719 in Banner Brothers. And there's a very good scene 02:40:20.719 --> 02:40:24.920 with Tipper when he gets a hit explosion and 02:40:24.920 --> 02:40:28.260 Liebgott's cradling him and his legs all damaged 02:40:28.260 --> 02:40:30.260 and all this sort of stuff. It was well done. 02:40:32.270 --> 02:40:36.229 He had to go for an audition for something and 02:40:36.229 --> 02:40:38.870 they were asking him about, he was fairly sporty, 02:40:39.129 --> 02:40:41.909 asking him about his flexibility and mobility 02:40:41.909 --> 02:40:44.329 and his fitness levels. He's saying, oh, good, 02:40:44.450 --> 02:40:46.770 all good. But I don't think he realised that 02:40:46.770 --> 02:40:50.649 it was a kind of, it needed a sort of an acrobatic 02:40:50.649 --> 02:40:54.950 flexibility. And so, again, using that same feeling 02:40:54.950 --> 02:40:56.870 like you're getting somewhere. And I'm not going 02:40:56.870 --> 02:40:59.770 to say I can't do something at this point. I'm 02:40:59.770 --> 02:41:00.829 going to say, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because, you 02:41:00.829 --> 02:41:02.309 know, with the idea that you might be able to 02:41:02.309 --> 02:41:04.790 get a bit of training in or do something. And 02:41:04.790 --> 02:41:10.149 so he said yes, you know, to a backflip. And 02:41:10.149 --> 02:41:13.930 then a bit like me, it was like, right, well, 02:41:14.049 --> 02:41:19.590 let's test the backflip in the room. So, you 02:41:19.590 --> 02:41:22.840 know. it comes back to that sort of thing you 02:41:22.840 --> 02:41:25.739 know actors courage or are they are we just a 02:41:25.739 --> 02:41:27.420 bunch of muppets because you just go with it 02:41:27.420 --> 02:41:29.079 and you don't even think about it you know so 02:41:29.079 --> 02:41:32.559 there was literally potentially a life on the 02:41:32.559 --> 02:41:36.600 line and so he composed himself to do a backflip 02:41:36.600 --> 02:41:39.959 and launched launched it launched one landed 02:41:39.959 --> 02:41:42.979 because he's not the most coordinated of guys 02:41:42.979 --> 02:41:47.430 and i think you get that so He'd landed squarely 02:41:47.430 --> 02:41:49.049 on his shoulder blade. So I didn't even get, 02:41:49.069 --> 02:41:50.389 thank goodness he didn't go higher. And then 02:41:50.389 --> 02:41:52.889 there's the next thing, but I mean, they asked 02:41:52.889 --> 02:41:57.790 for a backflip and a guaranteed winding. So he's 02:41:57.790 --> 02:42:00.229 just there on the floor, winded and, you know, 02:42:00.229 --> 02:42:02.389 casting people, you know, the inspiration commercials 02:42:02.389 --> 02:42:03.790 and stuff like that. They can be just, you know, 02:42:03.790 --> 02:42:06.290 they're just writing that down on a bit of paper. 02:42:06.450 --> 02:42:09.329 He's sucking in air for all his worth. They're 02:42:09.329 --> 02:42:12.329 just going like, no, he's not any good. The next. 02:42:12.510 --> 02:42:16.059 And so, you know, That's the world we're in. 02:42:16.139 --> 02:42:18.620 And again, you kind of go home, you dust yourself 02:42:18.620 --> 02:42:21.799 off, you look at yourself in the mirror and go, 02:42:21.899 --> 02:42:24.959 yeah, okay, tomorrow's another day. Shine on. 02:42:26.319 --> 02:42:28.340 When you were talking about the horse being named 02:42:28.340 --> 02:42:30.819 Jeff, I kept flashing to that show, What We Do 02:42:30.819 --> 02:42:33.219 in the Shadows. Have you seen that one? The vampire 02:42:33.219 --> 02:42:38.219 one? There's the Gregor, I think it is, the romantic. 02:42:39.000 --> 02:42:41.079 vampire from the past and he keeps manifesting 02:42:41.079 --> 02:42:44.940 and he's modern day and his name is jeff jeff 02:42:44.940 --> 02:42:51.059 sounds like male ejaculation jeff but yeah it's 02:42:51.059 --> 02:42:53.719 a little misleading for a terrifying giant horse 02:42:53.719 --> 02:42:58.219 to call him jeff so yeah shame on them but luckily 02:42:58.219 --> 02:43:01.200 jeff you know as i say was a vet of the field 02:43:01.200 --> 02:43:02.860 you know in the field so i felt literally in 02:43:02.860 --> 02:43:06.100 the field and i think that the if it was you 02:43:06.100 --> 02:43:09.329 know He knew and he was just getting me through 02:43:09.329 --> 02:43:12.969 a different kind of horse. I might've been in 02:43:12.969 --> 02:43:14.610 trouble there, but you know, I didn't, that's 02:43:14.610 --> 02:43:16.469 the beauty of it. You know, he just got me through 02:43:16.469 --> 02:43:18.350 it somehow. And like I say, I had no control 02:43:18.350 --> 02:43:23.030 at all, but you know, but it was, you know, at 02:43:23.030 --> 02:43:25.329 least I got on it. It was a fun shoot. And you 02:43:25.329 --> 02:43:27.629 know, the irony of it all as well, James, is 02:43:27.629 --> 02:43:30.549 that the guy that they brought in to do this 02:43:30.549 --> 02:43:33.559 role. Again, I'm not going to name names, but 02:43:33.559 --> 02:43:35.260 the guy that they brought in to do this role, 02:43:35.319 --> 02:43:39.500 and he did a great job in terms of acting, and 02:43:39.500 --> 02:43:42.219 he was a rider, but ultimately they didn't let 02:43:42.219 --> 02:43:45.940 him do it. Oh, really? Yeah, it was too much 02:43:45.940 --> 02:43:50.920 of a stunt. It was too dangerous to do, and ultimately 02:43:50.920 --> 02:43:55.780 the stunt guys kind of did it. So that was the 02:43:55.780 --> 02:44:00.469 irony there, and the extra little kick. I got 02:44:00.469 --> 02:44:01.770 to do it. I got to work with some really great 02:44:01.770 --> 02:44:11.430 people. And actually, although it wasn't as juicy 02:44:11.430 --> 02:44:14.670 a role, I think it was a good one, the right 02:44:14.670 --> 02:44:20.530 one for me. And I had some nice scenes to play. 02:44:20.649 --> 02:44:27.229 So I was pleased about it. I was happy. But, 02:44:27.250 --> 02:44:30.629 you know, another soldier, obviously. That was 02:44:30.629 --> 02:44:34.170 the other thing. Tight casting going on. That's 02:44:34.170 --> 02:44:37.549 a little bit of a theme. Yes. Which is kind of 02:44:37.549 --> 02:44:39.590 ridiculous. Or my girls think it's ridiculous. 02:44:39.930 --> 02:44:43.950 My girls will go, really? Yeah. Yeah, soldier 02:44:43.950 --> 02:44:46.430 again. I think it's just the way you cut your 02:44:46.430 --> 02:44:48.430 hair, daddy. I think, yeah, probably. Probably 02:44:48.430 --> 02:44:54.069 that. Well, Shane, it has been an amazing conversation. 02:44:55.340 --> 02:44:57.579 I wish we could do, you know, much, much longer. 02:44:57.639 --> 02:44:59.100 We'll definitely have to do a part two down the 02:44:59.100 --> 02:45:02.579 road at some point. But what an amazing, you 02:45:02.579 --> 02:45:05.139 know, spectrum of places we've been from the 02:45:05.139 --> 02:45:07.299 mental health of real world vets today that you're 02:45:07.299 --> 02:45:11.020 working with from the actors and the real easy 02:45:11.020 --> 02:45:13.600 company members of the show. And then finishing 02:45:13.600 --> 02:45:16.120 with some awesome audition stories. So I want 02:45:16.120 --> 02:45:18.079 to thank you so much for being so generous with 02:45:18.079 --> 02:45:19.600 your time and coming on the Behind the Shield 02:45:19.600 --> 02:45:22.250 podcast today. Well, thank you, James. I mean, 02:45:22.270 --> 02:45:24.889 it was a long epic and I apologise. And obviously 02:45:24.889 --> 02:45:27.829 it was a bit of a rusty start, needed to kind 02:45:27.829 --> 02:45:30.329 of get that engine and the cogs turning. But, 02:45:30.329 --> 02:45:34.090 you know, what a host. And keep up the spectacular 02:45:34.090 --> 02:45:38.209 work you're doing. You know, it's amazing. And 02:45:38.209 --> 02:45:40.309 all I can say to that is, you know, just keep 02:45:40.309 --> 02:45:41.590 on shining.