WEBVTT

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This episode is sponsored by Transcend, a veteran

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-owned and operated performance optimization

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company that I introduced recently as a sponsor

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on this show. Well, since then I have actually

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been using my products and I have had incredible

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success. There was initial blood work that was

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extremely detailed and based on that they offered

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supplementation. So I began taking DHEA. BPC

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-157 for inflammation based on the fact that

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I've been a stuntman, a martial artist and a

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firefighter my whole life. Lots of aches and

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pains. Dihexa to help cognition after multiple

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punches to the head and shift work and peptides.

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Four months later they did a detailed blood work

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again and I was actually able to taper off two

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of the peptides because my body had responded

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so well to just one of them that it was optimized

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at that point. So I cannot speak highly enough

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of the immense range of supplementation that

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they offer, whether it's male health, female

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which I would argue is needed by a lot of the

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fire service, or whether it's exogenous testosterone

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needed, especially after TBIs or advanced age.

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Now, as I mentioned before, the other side of

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this company is an altruistic arm called the

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Transcend Foundation, which is putting veterans

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and first responders through some of their protocols

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free of charge. Now, Transcend are also offering

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you, the audience, 10 % off their protocols.

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And you can find that on jamesgearing .com under

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the Products tab. And if you want to hear more

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about Transcend and their story, listen to episode

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808 with the founder, Ernie Colling. or go to

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transcendcompany .com. This episode is sponsored

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by TeamBuildr, yet another company that's doing

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great things for the first responder community.

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As a strength and conditioning coach myself,

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who also trains tactical athletes, dissemination

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of wellness information is one of the biggest

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challenges. Now, TeamBuildr is the premier

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strength and conditioning software for tactical

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athletes. And there are several features that

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really impress me. Firstly, there is a full exercise

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library, so you, the personal trainer, does not

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have to create that within your own department.

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Secondly, you can send out programming, but also

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individualize, which I love. So you blanket program

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for everyone. Now you can tweak based on someone's

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injury, someone's need to maybe drop some body

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composition, rather than having to write a program

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for every single person on their own. TeamBuildr

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also allows you to build custom questionnaires

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to collate health and wellness data. It integrates

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with wearables. And I think one of the most important

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things is obviously it tracks. To me, it's imperative

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that we as a profession start tracking our people

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from day one and then over the full span of their

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career, therefore catching potential wellness

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issues and injuries before they happen. Now,

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if you want to try TeamBuildr, they are offering

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you, the audience of the Behind the Shield podcast,

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a free 14 -day trial to experience all of the

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features. And if you want to take a deeper dive

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into TeamBuildr, listen to episode 1032 with

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Melissa Mercado or go to teambuilder .com. And

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I'll spell that to you because it's not as you

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think, T -E -A -M -B -U -I -L -D -R .com. Welcome

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to the Behind the Shield podcast. As always,

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my name is James Gearing and this week it is

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my absolute honor to welcome on the show 10 -year

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veteran of the fire service and the man behind

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conscious movements, Joey Scrivani. Now in this

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conversation, we discuss a host of topics from

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his journey into the fire service, some notable

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career calls, his PTSD diagnosis, how that sent

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him on a holistic healing journey, trauma release

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exercises, ice baths, breath work, plant medicines,

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and so much more. Now, before we get to this

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incredible conversation, as I say every week,

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please just take a moment, go to whichever app

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you listen to this on, subscribe to the show,

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leave feedback, and leave a rating. Every single

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five -star rating truly does elevate this podcast,

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therefore making it easier for others to find.

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And this is a free library of over 1 ,000 episodes

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now. So all I ask in return is that you help

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share these incredible men and women's stories

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so I can get them to every single person on planet

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Earth who needs to hear them. So with that being

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said, I introduce to you, Joey Scrivani. Enjoy.

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Well, Joey, I want to start by saying thank you

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so, so much for taking the time and coming on

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the Behind the Shield podcast today. Thank you,

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man. I'm excited to be here. It's an honor to

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get to talk with you. So where on planet Earth

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are we finding you this afternoon? I'm in northwest

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Florida, Panama City Beach. Beautiful. How was

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that winter kind of polar vortex that we had

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on your end? It was unreal, man. We ended up

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getting like four or five inches of snow. I got

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a five -year -old and a one -year -old. Neither

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of them had seen snow before. My wife's aunt

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was visiting us from Ecuador. 77, never seen

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snow. So it was amazing, man. We made snowmans

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in the backyard, snowball fights, the whole thing.

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Amazing. All right. Well, I would love to start

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at the very beginning of your journey. So tell

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me where you were born and tell me a little bit

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about your family dynamic, what your parents

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did, how many siblings. I was born in Hollywood,

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Florida, so South Florida. My parents, my dad

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owned his own vacuum shop and appliance store.

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It's called AAA Vacuums if you're looking for

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service with that kind of stuff. My mom did some

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secretarial work and she did a lot raising the

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kids. So there was four of us, my older brother,

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myself, a younger brother and a younger sister.

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When I think of electrical repair, I think of

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like the old school televisions or vacuum cleaners.

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Those things were bombproof, bombproof. You know,

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they lasted for years and years and years. As

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we progress through now, it seems like a lot

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of our technology is almost disposable. What

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has your dad seen as far as that progress and

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innovation and maybe the move away from a durable

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product that can be updated? Yeah, no, that's

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an interesting question, man. It's funny because

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he, so his, the product he mainly sells is called

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Miele and it's a German product. And it's that

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more old school type of build where it's durable.

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It's a more expensive product, but it's a better

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product. my dad gets a lot of people who buy

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something off of amazon then it breaks then they

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come to him to try to fix it and it's like it

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costs more money for him to fix it than if you

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just would have got a good product in the beginning

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so i definitely relate to that question what

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a beautiful analogy for the fire service yeah

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wow man yeah false economy as they say All right.

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Well, then what about growing up in Hollywood?

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My wife just came back from Nova down there after

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spending almost four years doing the Doctor of

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Optometry program. I lived down in Pembroke Pines

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about 20 years ago when I first worked for Hialeah

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down there. What have you seen as far as, you

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know, what was it like when you were little?

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And then what are kind of the aha moments when

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you go and visit now? remember it being a smaller

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place you know it was good uh neighborhoods and

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stuff grew up with kind of the same kids in the

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same area but um i mean i've been gone now for

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12 years or so but when i go back it's just how

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massive everything is the yeah the population's

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insane and i'm honestly glad i i didn't work

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down south because it's it's just it's crazy

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i mean it's crazy everywhere you work but Just

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the numbers down there is a whole nother level.

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I've said this on here a couple of times. What

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I struggle with having lived down there and then

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obviously visited over the last four years when

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I go see my wife and she's down there in school

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is you have, you know, a large immigrant population

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down there. Like Hialeah, where I work, was I

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think 96, 98 % Cuban, for example. So, you know,

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you have all these people that make it across

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from their countries. There's got to be a lot

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of gratitude. But culturally, like on the roads

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and some of the more affluent areas, it's kind

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of that kind of I got mine, fuck everyone else

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mentality, whether it's on the road, whether

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it's just, you know, kind of around. And I struggle

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with how somewhere that's so densely populated

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by maybe a first, second generation from, you

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know, nations that are probably struggling. that

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there isn't more of a sense of community kindness

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and compassion because when you drive down there

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I mean god the number of fatal wrecks they have

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just just the what you see the selfishness on

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the roads it really it really turns my stomach

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you know coming from you know from another country

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myself and being so grateful for here you'd think

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there'd be a lot more kind of integration and

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and yeah just I don't know I don't even have

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put my my finger on it but I don't I didn't see

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a lot of that community element that you think

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would be forged coming. And it's not just, don't

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get me wrong, it's not just people from other

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countries, but collectively as a part of the

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country that now has people that are doing so

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well, you'd think there'd be a lot more community

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feeling, a lot more kind of giving back. And

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I just didn't feel that a lot down in South Florida

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specifically compared to other parts of the United

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States. Yeah. The thing that I think about when

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you say that is just the sheer number of people.

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I think growing up in a bigger city like that.

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And then when I moved to Northwest Florida, it's

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a much smaller place. When the numbers are so

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high, it's easy to forget that it's a real person

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like next to you, you know what I mean? Because

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they're anonymous. So I think that's like part

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of it. And it's just, it's hard. It's easier

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for us when we know the people around us to act

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appropriately. I guess that would be the same

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kind of analogy with the internet. You can be

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a complete asshole behind a computer, but when

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you're actually faced with the consequences,

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it changes how you behave. And I think when you

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dilute a community with too many people, just

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like you said, there's a disconnection from what

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we actually are supposed to be like tribally

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as a species. Yeah, it's just too many dang people.

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All right, well then. reflecting on your childhood

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when you were young what were you playing and

00:11:25.029 --> 00:11:28.929
doing as far as sports and exercise um basketball

00:11:28.929 --> 00:11:32.610
baseball as a younger guy and then probably like

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mid teenagers 9 10 and something like that uh

00:11:36.009 --> 00:11:38.750
started playing hockey and that was my my real

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passion as a as far as sports How popular was

00:11:43.100 --> 00:11:44.779
hockey? Because obviously I know that we have

00:11:44.779 --> 00:11:46.860
rinks like Orlando has a rink with a Solar Bears

00:11:46.860 --> 00:11:50.639
play. How popular was it compared to I would

00:11:50.639 --> 00:11:52.139
think, you know, baseball being very popular

00:11:52.139 --> 00:11:54.639
down south? Yeah, so that was probably a big

00:11:54.639 --> 00:11:57.419
part of me getting into it. We just got the Florida

00:11:57.419 --> 00:12:00.779
Panthers at that time. I'm not sure the date,

00:12:00.820 --> 00:12:05.139
but somewhere in the late 90s. So it just it

00:12:05.139 --> 00:12:07.299
brought a lot of people like young kids like

00:12:07.299 --> 00:12:09.720
myself were excited about it. And they did a

00:12:09.720 --> 00:12:12.340
really good job, honestly. of like putting out

00:12:12.340 --> 00:12:15.480
uh tournaments and like little ways you can interact

00:12:15.480 --> 00:12:20.299
with the team and um and then you know they they

00:12:20.299 --> 00:12:23.840
made it to the uh like semi -finals at one point

00:12:23.840 --> 00:12:26.700
like early on in the the beginning of the team

00:12:26.700 --> 00:12:29.139
and then we hadn't had nothing for a while and

00:12:29.139 --> 00:12:34.320
then we won last year so go panthers what about

00:12:34.320 --> 00:12:37.340
the impact of the lessons that you learned physically

00:12:37.340 --> 00:12:40.659
mentally um on your ability to be a firefighter

00:12:40.659 --> 00:12:44.960
later in your career yeah it's a i mean we're

00:12:44.960 --> 00:12:47.500
i think they call it tactical athletes like i

00:12:47.500 --> 00:12:51.179
definitely when i was on the job i used to joke

00:12:51.179 --> 00:12:53.639
with my wife like i get paid to work out you

00:12:53.639 --> 00:12:57.179
know i'm pretty much an athlete and um that's

00:12:57.179 --> 00:12:59.539
true i mean we're asked to do a physical job

00:12:59.539 --> 00:13:04.279
um there should be certain expectations and standards

00:13:04.279 --> 00:13:06.620
that you could do to be able to perform the job

00:13:06.620 --> 00:13:10.570
properly so I always was into physical fitness

00:13:10.570 --> 00:13:15.830
as a kid and just liked doing hard shit. And

00:13:15.830 --> 00:13:17.950
the fire service is obviously a good way to do

00:13:17.950 --> 00:13:21.409
that. Well, speaking of that, when you were in

00:13:21.409 --> 00:13:22.929
the school age, was that what you're already

00:13:22.929 --> 00:13:24.789
thinking about? Or was there another career you

00:13:24.789 --> 00:13:29.289
had in mind at that point? So most of my childhood,

00:13:29.350 --> 00:13:35.490
I didn't have any direct goal as far as career

00:13:35.490 --> 00:13:41.360
wise. kind of just because of my childhood, some

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traumatic early kind of stuff. And it kind of

00:13:46.360 --> 00:13:50.399
pushed me into this desire to help people. So

00:13:50.399 --> 00:13:53.179
luckily, I was a pretty good student. And in

00:13:53.179 --> 00:13:55.820
my senior year of school, there was a program

00:13:55.820 --> 00:13:58.740
called Wise, where if you had finished most of

00:13:58.740 --> 00:14:00.460
your credits, you can do like an internship.

00:14:02.539 --> 00:14:05.500
Just liking the physical aspect of it, wanting

00:14:05.500 --> 00:14:07.299
to help people, not wanting to be behind the

00:14:07.299 --> 00:14:10.840
desk type of thing. I chose to do an internship

00:14:10.840 --> 00:14:14.460
with Hollywood Fire Rescue. And honestly, that

00:14:14.460 --> 00:14:17.679
changed my life. It really gave me a goal and

00:14:17.679 --> 00:14:21.860
like a direction. I liked working out and getting

00:14:21.860 --> 00:14:26.379
paid for it. So that just progressed after I

00:14:26.379 --> 00:14:28.960
got out of high school, went straight to EMT,

00:14:29.019 --> 00:14:33.720
fire and then paramedic. You touched on childhood

00:14:33.720 --> 00:14:36.240
trauma, and I know that you just sent me a video

00:14:36.240 --> 00:14:38.860
that you just did in Colorado, one of the TRE

00:14:38.860 --> 00:14:45.899
events, and you touch on the ACE score. When

00:14:45.899 --> 00:14:49.220
you reflect now with this mature lens that obviously

00:14:49.220 --> 00:14:51.679
has been through your own crucible, what were

00:14:51.679 --> 00:14:54.720
the elements of your early upbringing that contributed

00:14:54.720 --> 00:14:58.860
to struggles later in life? I think the biggest

00:14:58.860 --> 00:15:03.840
one is Learning as a young kid to kind of neglect

00:15:03.840 --> 00:15:08.399
my own feelings in the service to others. That's

00:15:08.399 --> 00:15:10.460
if I had to boil it down, that's that's probably

00:15:10.460 --> 00:15:14.059
it. And I think a lot of us as first responders

00:15:14.059 --> 00:15:17.779
go through shit and it may be stuff that would

00:15:17.779 --> 00:15:21.299
really kill most people. But we find some resilience

00:15:21.299 --> 00:15:23.600
in the fact that we don't want that to happen

00:15:23.600 --> 00:15:26.700
to others. And we want to mitigate that in some

00:15:26.700 --> 00:15:30.179
way. And then the fire service gives you that

00:15:30.179 --> 00:15:32.720
ability and you get, you know, trained up to

00:15:32.720 --> 00:15:34.539
do it and then you get to do it and it's very

00:15:34.539 --> 00:15:38.879
fulfilling and rewarding. I mean, it's absolutely

00:15:38.879 --> 00:15:40.940
essential. And you kind of made this comparison

00:15:40.940 --> 00:15:42.860
in the video about when you're on a call, when

00:15:42.860 --> 00:15:44.919
you're running a code, you can't be queening

00:15:44.919 --> 00:15:46.519
out and running around screaming. You've got

00:15:46.519 --> 00:15:51.500
to be in that zone and be that kind of, you know,

00:15:51.500 --> 00:15:54.509
Robocop mentality at that point. But the danger

00:15:54.509 --> 00:15:57.009
that we have is after the fact, you've then got

00:15:57.009 --> 00:15:59.509
to allow yourself to feel and process and allow

00:15:59.509 --> 00:16:03.090
those feelings to manifest how they would normally

00:16:03.090 --> 00:16:05.750
for a regular human being. I think the danger

00:16:05.750 --> 00:16:09.850
that we have is that flow state, that leaning

00:16:09.850 --> 00:16:12.490
into your acronyms, leaning into your training.

00:16:13.399 --> 00:16:16.320
We forget that the other side of that has to

00:16:16.320 --> 00:16:18.860
be allowing yourself to process. And if you don't,

00:16:18.860 --> 00:16:21.179
if you just bury it down, you end up shifting

00:16:21.179 --> 00:16:24.279
the identity to RoboCop rather than that simply

00:16:24.279 --> 00:16:27.820
being a tool in your toolbox. Yeah, man, that

00:16:27.820 --> 00:16:30.840
message right there, I wish someone would have

00:16:30.840 --> 00:16:32.980
told me when I was 20 years old and first got

00:16:32.980 --> 00:16:37.480
on the job because I was shown the exact opposite,

00:16:37.559 --> 00:16:40.580
which is... unfortunately, much of what their

00:16:40.580 --> 00:16:43.279
culture is still today, the whole repression,

00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:45.960
keep it in that little box in your head, keep

00:16:45.960 --> 00:16:49.799
it separated somehow. The punchline is that does

00:16:49.799 --> 00:16:52.299
not work. That's why we're in the crisis we're

00:16:52.299 --> 00:16:59.299
in. And by not doing that work, eventually something's

00:16:59.299 --> 00:17:01.779
going to give, whether it's your marriage or

00:17:01.779 --> 00:17:04.700
your relationship with your kids or just your

00:17:04.700 --> 00:17:07.460
own heart, because like we talked about, you

00:17:07.460 --> 00:17:12.759
shut that down. And if you do the work to process

00:17:12.759 --> 00:17:14.980
that stuff, it's going to give you greater empathy

00:17:14.980 --> 00:17:18.180
and compassion to be able to do your job at a

00:17:18.180 --> 00:17:20.660
higher level, which is the whole point. We want

00:17:20.660 --> 00:17:27.079
to help people. This past couple of days in Colorado,

00:17:27.480 --> 00:17:29.420
that's just what really stuck out to me again

00:17:29.420 --> 00:17:32.720
is there's so much purpose in helping. Service

00:17:32.720 --> 00:17:39.509
is a privilege. It's like a drug. I mean, you're

00:17:39.509 --> 00:17:41.829
allowed to forget yourself through selfless action.

00:17:42.109 --> 00:17:45.589
And that is the end of suffering in a sense.

00:17:48.210 --> 00:17:52.349
So, yeah, I'm sorry. I kind of lost where I was

00:17:52.349 --> 00:17:54.849
going with that. No, no, you're fine. Well, you

00:17:54.849 --> 00:17:58.500
mentioned about doing Fire EMT paramedic. Walk

00:17:58.500 --> 00:18:00.980
me through, you know, the front door for you.

00:18:01.039 --> 00:18:03.140
What was the conversation, if any, about mental

00:18:03.140 --> 00:18:05.920
health, fitness standards? And then what were

00:18:05.920 --> 00:18:08.240
your first few weeks, months like for you as

00:18:08.240 --> 00:18:11.700
a 20 year old? Going through the Broward Fire

00:18:11.700 --> 00:18:14.140
Academy, I mean, there I don't remember much

00:18:14.140 --> 00:18:18.759
talk of mental health ever, but the physical

00:18:18.759 --> 00:18:21.220
standards are high. And I appreciated that. I

00:18:21.220 --> 00:18:23.660
mean, there's more of the talk of mental toughness,

00:18:23.799 --> 00:18:27.849
which is such a. necessary part of the job. There

00:18:27.849 --> 00:18:32.450
is a time to firemen up and get after it. But

00:18:32.450 --> 00:18:35.549
there was no talk of like the softer side of

00:18:35.549 --> 00:18:38.369
things, which is what this conversation is about,

00:18:38.529 --> 00:18:41.609
that it's a necessary, you know, yin and yang

00:18:41.609 --> 00:18:46.509
type thing. So not much conversation about it.

00:18:46.589 --> 00:18:50.450
And then a big impressionable moment for me was

00:18:50.450 --> 00:18:53.930
one of my first calls at a BLS station I worked

00:18:53.930 --> 00:18:57.619
at. where a young man was hit on a bicycle, his

00:18:57.619 --> 00:19:02.420
stomach was flayed open, guts on the floor. I'm

00:19:02.420 --> 00:19:05.039
first on scene. I'm only a couple days, weeks

00:19:05.039 --> 00:19:07.160
on the job. I have no clue what I'm doing, you

00:19:07.160 --> 00:19:10.240
know what I mean? Like, the schooling prepares

00:19:10.240 --> 00:19:15.579
you in a sense, but not really. And then after

00:19:15.579 --> 00:19:19.539
that call, you know, the young man died. But

00:19:19.539 --> 00:19:22.890
I look to the... people who were in you know

00:19:22.890 --> 00:19:25.490
my lieutenants these these older men who i was

00:19:25.490 --> 00:19:29.549
looking up to um and their strategy was the repression

00:19:29.549 --> 00:19:32.890
uh the dark humor which is a great tool but can

00:19:32.890 --> 00:19:37.349
also be used to um not feel the hard feelings

00:19:37.349 --> 00:19:41.250
um and then you know go out and get some beers

00:19:41.250 --> 00:19:43.769
make some jokes about it get ready to do it again

00:19:43.769 --> 00:19:48.829
and that is the prevailing strategy for our service

00:19:48.829 --> 00:19:51.690
i think for police military fire all all kinds

00:19:51.690 --> 00:19:55.869
of first responders and the message we're talking

00:19:55.869 --> 00:20:00.109
about here today is that you have to do this

00:20:00.109 --> 00:20:04.170
other side of it um and and when you do you'll

00:20:04.170 --> 00:20:06.849
be a better responder you'll be able to help

00:20:06.849 --> 00:20:11.049
even more which is why we get into this we want

00:20:11.049 --> 00:20:13.730
to help we want to mitigate suffering for people

00:20:13.730 --> 00:20:19.750
and and it's Yeah. Yeah, 100%. One of the things

00:20:19.750 --> 00:20:23.069
that's become kind of more apparent to me, I

00:20:23.069 --> 00:20:25.509
have said this on here many times, through 14

00:20:25.509 --> 00:20:28.829
years, I never had a code save. I was the reaper.

00:20:28.930 --> 00:20:30.650
You know, when you went into cardiac arrest,

00:20:30.869 --> 00:20:33.369
it was usually a GI bleed. It was a brain bleed.

00:20:33.549 --> 00:20:35.970
It was, you know, AAA. It was all the things,

00:20:36.089 --> 00:20:40.210
you know. And so. What I realized after a while,

00:20:40.289 --> 00:20:42.029
even though it never like crushed me, crushed

00:20:42.029 --> 00:20:45.349
me, there was definitely this kind of this burnout.

00:20:45.690 --> 00:20:48.269
And I remember one of my friends, Shelby, who

00:20:48.269 --> 00:20:50.029
at the time, I think she was in nursing school.

00:20:50.109 --> 00:20:52.089
We had another code and she goes, did you make

00:20:52.089 --> 00:20:53.990
it? Did they make it? And I was like, fuck no.

00:20:54.630 --> 00:20:57.589
And she was literally did a double take. And

00:20:57.589 --> 00:20:59.329
I told her, I kind of caught myself. I'm like,

00:20:59.369 --> 00:21:01.670
yeah, that they never make it. And I realized

00:21:01.670 --> 00:21:03.829
that when we went to school, there's nothing

00:21:03.829 --> 00:21:06.849
wrong with this. When we went to school. acls

00:21:06.849 --> 00:21:10.069
you know pals whatever it is you do x y and z

00:21:10.069 --> 00:21:13.069
and then you know return to normal rhythm you

00:21:13.069 --> 00:21:14.589
know and then you see in the paper the station

00:21:14.589 --> 00:21:16.230
that came around with a cake and they gave him

00:21:16.230 --> 00:21:20.009
a hug i never had that no one ever told me that

00:21:20.009 --> 00:21:22.690
almost no one is going to make it and if you're

00:21:22.690 --> 00:21:24.410
a black cloud no one's going to fucking make

00:21:24.410 --> 00:21:27.869
it in 14 years and so that inability to save

00:21:27.869 --> 00:21:30.650
that that shame and that guilt of what the fuck

00:21:30.650 --> 00:21:34.480
you know in in class They made it. We put their

00:21:34.480 --> 00:21:36.880
guts back in with saline and bandages, and they

00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:40.440
made it. So I think that's another thing that

00:21:40.440 --> 00:21:42.640
we need to reevaluate is the way that we train.

00:21:42.839 --> 00:21:44.660
You make entry in a fire doesn't mean you're

00:21:44.660 --> 00:21:46.279
going to get the kid out. The kid might already

00:21:46.279 --> 00:21:50.819
be ash. So lowering those expectations, not lowering

00:21:50.819 --> 00:21:54.880
the potential of making a rescue, but making

00:21:54.880 --> 00:21:57.559
young people understand there are many, many

00:21:57.559 --> 00:21:59.380
times where they just won't make it, and it's

00:21:59.380 --> 00:22:02.000
nothing that you could have done. Yeah, dude,

00:22:02.119 --> 00:22:05.019
that's an amazing thing. I've never thought about

00:22:05.019 --> 00:22:09.160
that, but we should be preparing people when

00:22:09.160 --> 00:22:11.440
you're doing your mega codes and stuff for a

00:22:11.440 --> 00:22:14.059
patient who does die. What does that protocol

00:22:14.059 --> 00:22:18.079
look like? And I know just from personal experience

00:22:18.079 --> 00:22:20.119
towards the end of my career, I actually started

00:22:20.119 --> 00:22:23.619
to feel this and think about that because I had

00:22:23.619 --> 00:22:25.400
a few saves. But like you said, the majority

00:22:25.400 --> 00:22:30.000
of them you can't save. And I started to not.

00:22:30.519 --> 00:22:32.980
we used to do the idea of like load and go right

00:22:32.980 --> 00:22:34.900
like get them in the ambulance get moving to

00:22:34.900 --> 00:22:38.240
the hospital and we started to shift more towards

00:22:38.240 --> 00:22:40.740
the stay and play type thing where you're you

00:22:40.740 --> 00:22:43.200
know run the code on scene get it done make sure

00:22:43.200 --> 00:22:47.599
it's going well if they don't make it then call

00:22:47.599 --> 00:22:50.140
it on scene you don't waste all these resources

00:22:50.140 --> 00:22:54.519
and give people false hope and like you know

00:22:54.519 --> 00:22:57.359
it's just not the best way like it's unfortunate

00:22:57.359 --> 00:23:01.259
that people die but First responders, I never

00:23:01.259 --> 00:23:03.160
had thought about this, but we're the people

00:23:03.160 --> 00:23:07.640
who are there for people's father who died from

00:23:07.640 --> 00:23:11.200
a heart attack or whatever. And you almost have

00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:14.920
a responsibility to help that situation. If it's

00:23:14.920 --> 00:23:18.339
a shitty situation, show the person, look, we're

00:23:18.339 --> 00:23:20.079
doing everything they would do at the hospital.

00:23:20.240 --> 00:23:22.960
We're giving this drug. We're innovating them

00:23:22.960 --> 00:23:24.599
with this. We're going to help them breathe.

00:23:24.859 --> 00:23:27.240
His heart rhythm's doing this right now. We're

00:23:27.240 --> 00:23:29.519
going to try to shock it. If it doesn't work,

00:23:29.720 --> 00:23:31.359
you know, in a few minutes, we're going to have

00:23:31.359 --> 00:23:34.500
to call it. There's nothing we can do. That process

00:23:34.500 --> 00:23:39.039
allows those people the experience of not having

00:23:39.039 --> 00:23:41.220
to be like, man, did they mess up when I didn't

00:23:41.220 --> 00:23:42.839
see him when they rushed out to the hospital?

00:23:42.920 --> 00:23:46.059
And, you know, that experience for the child

00:23:46.059 --> 00:23:49.839
driving to the hospital when daddy's in the ambulance

00:23:49.839 --> 00:23:52.140
flying down the road and they're hopeful that

00:23:52.140 --> 00:23:54.259
he's going to make it. And then they get to the

00:23:54.259 --> 00:23:56.059
hospital and get kicked in the nuts again because,

00:23:56.140 --> 00:24:00.819
you know, the doctor tells them. So that's something

00:24:00.819 --> 00:24:02.740
I've never even heard this conversation about.

00:24:02.940 --> 00:24:07.099
But we absolutely need to train our young people

00:24:07.099 --> 00:24:10.759
for that reality. You're probably going to have

00:24:10.759 --> 00:24:13.640
to pronounce somebody dead. And what does that

00:24:13.640 --> 00:24:17.440
look like? And again, to the trauma piece, do

00:24:17.440 --> 00:24:19.559
you think if you don't even know what your own

00:24:19.559 --> 00:24:21.200
emotions are, that you're going to be able to

00:24:21.200 --> 00:24:24.099
successfully do that for someone in that situation?

00:24:24.220 --> 00:24:28.140
There's no way in hell. Yeah. I'll never forget,

00:24:28.299 --> 00:24:32.940
I had a code. It was at a resort area in like

00:24:32.940 --> 00:24:34.920
a dog kennel. Someone had dropped off there.

00:24:34.980 --> 00:24:37.420
They were about to drop off their dog. They collapsed

00:24:37.420 --> 00:24:41.279
and the code went so well. But again, it was

00:24:41.279 --> 00:24:43.160
one of those underlying things where you're not

00:24:43.160 --> 00:24:45.700
going to come back from it. This was a bleed

00:24:45.700 --> 00:24:49.500
that you don't return. And so looking back and

00:24:49.500 --> 00:24:52.380
going, that code could not have gone any better.

00:24:53.000 --> 00:24:54.940
That is what you need to lean into. And again,

00:24:55.000 --> 00:24:57.059
that's where fitness standards and training standards

00:24:57.059 --> 00:24:59.579
and all these come in. If you're deconditioned

00:24:59.579 --> 00:25:01.559
and someone dies in a house fire because you

00:25:01.559 --> 00:25:05.039
knew that you basically tapped out, I don't know

00:25:05.039 --> 00:25:06.539
how you can carry that. You know what I mean?

00:25:06.539 --> 00:25:08.559
That's a whole separate conversation. But if

00:25:08.559 --> 00:25:10.259
you've drilled and you did everything that you

00:25:10.259 --> 00:25:14.940
could, infusing in a megacode that it is asystole,

00:25:15.119 --> 00:25:17.839
call on scene and work through those protocols,

00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:20.519
make that one of the scenarios. So that way...

00:25:20.859 --> 00:25:24.240
you know that sometimes on a one out of 10, maybe

00:25:24.240 --> 00:25:26.420
you'll actually get normal sinus again and ROSC,

00:25:26.460 --> 00:25:28.799
but weave in those ones where they don't. I think

00:25:28.799 --> 00:25:30.720
that would actually be very helpful. Yeah, no,

00:25:30.940 --> 00:25:34.180
it's such a great idea and it's such an easy

00:25:34.180 --> 00:25:36.920
thing. Like it's so easy for the instructor to

00:25:36.920 --> 00:25:40.720
go, he didn't make it. And then what, like as

00:25:40.720 --> 00:25:44.359
when I was 18, 19 year old kid, like what would

00:25:44.359 --> 00:25:46.180
I have said then? You know, especially if it's

00:25:46.180 --> 00:25:48.509
like a surprise. Like, you don't know it's coming.

00:25:48.630 --> 00:25:50.710
Your instructor is just going to say he died.

00:25:51.150 --> 00:25:55.170
Like, and see just, I mean, the reality is I

00:25:55.170 --> 00:25:59.009
was 20 and I was in that situation. You know

00:25:59.009 --> 00:26:00.990
what I mean? Like, that's what the job is. You

00:26:00.990 --> 00:26:04.190
immediately are now in these just situations

00:26:04.190 --> 00:26:07.849
that honestly, since I didn't recognize it until

00:26:07.849 --> 00:26:10.710
I've been out for about three years now, what

00:26:10.710 --> 00:26:14.329
first responders do is not normal life. You know

00:26:14.329 --> 00:26:18.440
what I mean? I went from a young kid. to my mid

00:26:18.440 --> 00:26:23.579
-20s or early 20s to mid -30s doing that work.

00:26:23.779 --> 00:26:25.480
And it wasn't until I've been out for two or

00:26:25.480 --> 00:26:28.920
three years now where it's like, yeah, I don't

00:26:28.920 --> 00:26:32.680
see dead people. I don't see bad accidents. You

00:26:32.680 --> 00:26:34.940
know what I mean? All these things that are so

00:26:34.940 --> 00:26:38.619
normal that we as first responders think it's

00:26:38.619 --> 00:26:41.559
normal life, it's really not. The amount of shit

00:26:41.559 --> 00:26:43.779
we do in a shift is more than most people do

00:26:43.779 --> 00:26:46.779
in a year. You know, I mean, if not greater.

00:26:47.019 --> 00:26:50.960
So 100 percent. I've been out six and a half

00:26:50.960 --> 00:26:54.299
years. I worked a cardiac arrest on a plane in

00:26:54.299 --> 00:26:56.410
London about. just over a year ago, but that's

00:26:56.410 --> 00:26:59.109
the only one in six and a half years. So you

00:26:59.109 --> 00:27:00.970
think about, you know, our careers are roughly

00:27:00.970 --> 00:27:03.849
the same 14 years. I mean, I saw so much when

00:27:03.849 --> 00:27:06.369
I was writing my books, I have, I wrote down

00:27:06.369 --> 00:27:08.369
all, not the dead people that would have taken

00:27:08.369 --> 00:27:10.529
up the whole book, but just the horrible dead

00:27:10.529 --> 00:27:13.150
people calls. And it was two sides of a four,

00:27:13.289 --> 00:27:16.250
two sides of letter size paper. And I'm like,

00:27:16.289 --> 00:27:18.549
Jesus Christ. And that's just 14 years. We've

00:27:18.549 --> 00:27:21.029
got men and women that have worked 30, 40 years

00:27:21.029 --> 00:27:24.230
in their careers. So yeah, we accumulate so much.

00:27:25.920 --> 00:27:28.579
Yeah, absolutely. There's there's no way around

00:27:28.579 --> 00:27:31.500
it. I mean, even if you're even if it's you've

00:27:31.500 --> 00:27:33.339
only been on for a little bit, if you've seen

00:27:33.339 --> 00:27:35.420
some stuff and you've been sleep deprived for

00:27:35.420 --> 00:27:38.359
a bit and, you know, I mean, like whatever other

00:27:38.359 --> 00:27:40.980
negative coping strategies you're doing, like

00:27:40.980 --> 00:27:45.579
it, it changes you. You cannot you may be blind

00:27:45.579 --> 00:27:48.799
to it like I was for a long time, like most of

00:27:48.799 --> 00:27:52.220
us are. But if you ask the spouse or the friends

00:27:52.220 --> 00:27:55.200
around, like the job changes you, you know, and.

00:27:55.609 --> 00:28:00.210
it's it's changes you in a in a negative way

00:28:00.210 --> 00:28:02.230
in a sense because you come become more jaded

00:28:02.230 --> 00:28:06.009
and more robotic um but it's like this is the

00:28:06.009 --> 00:28:09.849
hard part that is necessary like i don't want

00:28:09.849 --> 00:28:12.329
the fire service to go super soft like we need

00:28:12.329 --> 00:28:14.950
to be able to be badass motherfuckers and get

00:28:14.950 --> 00:28:19.630
shit done but we cannot be so scared to do the

00:28:19.630 --> 00:28:22.990
other side of it and and like just neglect that

00:28:22.990 --> 00:28:26.309
part of it because it's It only makes you better.

00:28:26.410 --> 00:28:29.109
That's what's exciting about, like, I'm not on

00:28:29.109 --> 00:28:33.490
the job anymore. But if I can get somebody to

00:28:33.490 --> 00:28:37.069
realize that who's on the job and they then go

00:28:37.069 --> 00:28:42.130
show up on scene in a really present way, as

00:28:42.130 --> 00:28:44.769
well as doing the protocol and making sure everything's

00:28:44.769 --> 00:28:47.609
done, you know, don't be afraid to hold your

00:28:47.609 --> 00:28:49.890
patient's hand or, you know, give them a hug

00:28:49.890 --> 00:28:53.079
or look them in the eye. Ask them if you want

00:28:53.079 --> 00:28:55.980
the AC on or off, the lights, can I adjust your

00:28:55.980 --> 00:29:00.220
headrest? Those things are so necessary in the

00:29:00.220 --> 00:29:06.599
process of healing. Being the first responder

00:29:06.599 --> 00:29:09.440
in these moments of people's dire circumstances,

00:29:09.900 --> 00:29:13.640
you literally get to be an angel to them. And

00:29:13.640 --> 00:29:17.240
you're lucky to do it. Well, I've said this in

00:29:17.240 --> 00:29:21.150
both of the books, basically. If you think about

00:29:21.150 --> 00:29:25.009
it, we are the only hope that a lot of the more

00:29:25.009 --> 00:29:27.849
struggling people in our communities have. Like,

00:29:27.849 --> 00:29:30.069
I'll never forget going down Orange Blossom Trail

00:29:30.069 --> 00:29:33.230
in Orlando over and over again. And, you know,

00:29:33.289 --> 00:29:36.869
gang members, sex workers, homeless, they would

00:29:36.869 --> 00:29:38.730
be waving at the rescue, not the police cars,

00:29:38.829 --> 00:29:40.990
but at the rescue, you know, because you're their

00:29:40.990 --> 00:29:43.349
beacon of hope. You might be the last person.

00:29:43.920 --> 00:29:46.440
they see and or you might be the only person

00:29:46.440 --> 00:29:49.519
that has a kind word for them that day that week

00:29:49.519 --> 00:29:52.740
maybe that month yeah no that's that's the thing

00:29:52.740 --> 00:29:55.579
that we're these services are holding together

00:29:55.579 --> 00:30:00.160
society like and that's why my call is for us

00:30:00.160 --> 00:30:03.819
to like step up like we get to be superheroes

00:30:03.819 --> 00:30:06.960
the people who sign up for this job you chose

00:30:06.960 --> 00:30:12.079
to do it you know i mean like um We got to do

00:30:12.079 --> 00:30:16.779
this stuff so we can be able to not lose our

00:30:16.779 --> 00:30:19.220
heart for these people who are in dire circumstances,

00:30:19.640 --> 00:30:22.380
you know, just our fellow humans. I think a big

00:30:22.380 --> 00:30:25.059
thing is like we all, so many of us get into

00:30:25.059 --> 00:30:28.440
this to help. Like that's the drug of this job.

00:30:28.920 --> 00:30:31.839
And wouldn't you want to be able to be of greater

00:30:31.839 --> 00:30:34.460
service? You know, that's kind of the hope I'm

00:30:34.460 --> 00:30:38.079
pushing out there. One thing I'm really calling

00:30:38.079 --> 00:30:41.640
for this year is courage. And the more I unwrap

00:30:41.640 --> 00:30:45.180
courage and cowardice, the more roots of these

00:30:45.180 --> 00:30:49.019
problems I see. So, for example, you've got departments

00:30:49.019 --> 00:30:51.720
that are working 56 hours a week, 80 hours a

00:30:51.720 --> 00:30:54.559
week with mandatory overtime. And people who

00:30:54.559 --> 00:30:57.039
work 40 hours a week who go home at five every

00:30:57.039 --> 00:30:59.799
night are denying them the ability to have more

00:30:59.799 --> 00:31:01.359
rest and recovery. They're saying, no, you don't

00:31:01.359 --> 00:31:04.500
deserve to work less than 56 hours a week. That

00:31:04.500 --> 00:31:07.000
is pure cowardice to me. But then let's talk

00:31:07.000 --> 00:31:09.890
about fitness standards. You know, to say, oh,

00:31:09.970 --> 00:31:11.670
I don't want to be held to a standard like I

00:31:11.670 --> 00:31:13.950
was in the academy as I progressed through my

00:31:13.950 --> 00:31:18.170
career and therefore be perform worse and less

00:31:18.170 --> 00:31:20.049
than the chance of even making it to retirement.

00:31:20.730 --> 00:31:23.029
That's cowardice as well. You know, we need to

00:31:23.029 --> 00:31:25.630
be courageous in these decisions. And there's

00:31:25.630 --> 00:31:28.789
a leaning in the identity of a firefighter. But

00:31:28.789 --> 00:31:32.470
the harsh reality is how many fires, true fires,

00:31:32.569 --> 00:31:35.390
like I'm going to rescue someone fires. are you

00:31:35.390 --> 00:31:36.970
actually going to? Because that's what you're

00:31:36.970 --> 00:31:39.170
clinging to is your identity as a courageous

00:31:39.170 --> 00:31:41.910
firefighter. And what I will challenge people

00:31:41.910 --> 00:31:45.890
is the true courage is advocating for time at

00:31:45.890 --> 00:31:48.150
home with your family. True courage is advocating

00:31:48.150 --> 00:31:51.829
for the bar to be set high, for fitness standards

00:31:51.829 --> 00:31:54.569
to be set high so that you are ready to do the

00:31:54.569 --> 00:31:56.269
job. And as you said, you're the best version

00:31:56.269 --> 00:31:58.509
of yourself as a medic, as a firefighter, as

00:31:58.509 --> 00:32:02.190
a cop. So if you're going to only get, you know,

00:32:02.799 --> 00:32:06.279
four fires a year bonafide legit fires a year

00:32:06.279 --> 00:32:09.319
then you're only asked to be brave for a few

00:32:09.319 --> 00:32:12.640
hours every quarter so where the courage really

00:32:12.640 --> 00:32:14.740
needs to be leaned into is the things that are

00:32:14.740 --> 00:32:17.359
killing our men and women and it's all the things

00:32:17.359 --> 00:32:20.500
that we're talking about today yeah absolutely

00:32:20.500 --> 00:32:23.779
i mean the when you say courage it brings up

00:32:23.779 --> 00:32:27.039
to mind that like there's you know having fear

00:32:27.039 --> 00:32:30.329
is not a bad thing it's just acting making a

00:32:30.329 --> 00:32:32.630
decision in the face of that fear that's what

00:32:32.630 --> 00:32:35.589
courage is so that just brings up the emotional

00:32:35.589 --> 00:32:39.069
side of the of the work it's it's scary it's

00:32:39.069 --> 00:32:41.950
not fun it doesn't feel good all the time um

00:32:41.950 --> 00:32:45.829
but like you're saying to have the courage to

00:32:45.829 --> 00:32:48.970
do it you know that's what's i mean that's what's

00:32:48.970 --> 00:32:52.849
killing us it's there's a bruce lipton is a a

00:32:52.849 --> 00:32:56.390
scientist who has a quote that something like

00:32:56.390 --> 00:33:01.589
95 of all diseases caused by stress so you know

00:33:01.589 --> 00:33:04.390
we got to worry about the cancers and being in

00:33:04.390 --> 00:33:07.069
shape and doing all these things but this job

00:33:07.069 --> 00:33:09.210
you accumulate so much stress and if you're not

00:33:09.210 --> 00:33:12.329
doing something to mitigate that stress it's

00:33:12.329 --> 00:33:14.690
going to turn into diabetes cancer heart attacks

00:33:14.690 --> 00:33:18.269
all the other things so have the courage to take

00:33:18.269 --> 00:33:20.690
care of yourself there's there's a saying i like

00:33:20.690 --> 00:33:24.269
that you can't give what you don't have um there's

00:33:24.269 --> 00:33:28.700
an another idea of i we all So and then we know

00:33:28.700 --> 00:33:31.759
this in the fire service, you you take care of

00:33:31.759 --> 00:33:35.339
yourself first in a fire so you can then take

00:33:35.339 --> 00:33:37.660
care of your brother. Right. You we put our oxygen

00:33:37.660 --> 00:33:39.799
mask on first on the plane, then your children

00:33:39.799 --> 00:33:43.539
like we and we have just forgot to do it, you

00:33:43.539 --> 00:33:47.319
know, out of this. Like, I think it's out of

00:33:47.319 --> 00:33:50.460
this courageous bravery to help. But there's

00:33:50.460 --> 00:33:54.230
a piece missing where we forget ourselves. And

00:33:54.230 --> 00:33:56.690
society sees taking care of yourself as selfish.

00:33:57.269 --> 00:33:59.609
But I think we're seeing more and more that,

00:33:59.809 --> 00:34:03.549
no, you have to be pampering yourself in a way,

00:34:03.609 --> 00:34:06.490
doing all the things you can to mitigate your

00:34:06.490 --> 00:34:09.070
stress, because otherwise it's going to take

00:34:09.070 --> 00:34:13.590
you out. Well, because we are selfless servants

00:34:13.590 --> 00:34:17.070
and it does get muddied, which is why I think

00:34:17.070 --> 00:34:19.110
we are where we are now with the work week, because

00:34:19.110 --> 00:34:21.269
we will show up regardless and we've been taken

00:34:21.269 --> 00:34:23.760
advantage of. That's the bottom line. to the

00:34:23.760 --> 00:34:26.579
detriment of our health, but also of our family's

00:34:26.579 --> 00:34:29.460
health. Like there is hands down proof of the,

00:34:29.460 --> 00:34:32.199
you know, much higher chance of our children

00:34:32.199 --> 00:34:35.179
having disease because of the way we work and

00:34:35.179 --> 00:34:38.460
our broken bodies. The relationship, you know,

00:34:38.460 --> 00:34:40.639
issues that we have, the divorces and all the

00:34:40.639 --> 00:34:44.199
other things. So my challenge is, again, don't

00:34:44.199 --> 00:34:46.659
worry about yourself. This will take care of

00:34:46.659 --> 00:34:50.679
you, but do the work on yourself for your family.

00:34:51.239 --> 00:34:53.780
The then way it's a selfless act. Again, you

00:34:53.780 --> 00:34:56.860
need to do the meditation, you know, the TRE,

00:34:57.059 --> 00:34:59.420
you know, the psychedelic retreat. If that's

00:34:59.420 --> 00:35:01.519
a path that you're going to go down, the counseling,

00:35:01.679 --> 00:35:04.980
the EMDR, the fitness, the yoga, all the things.

00:35:05.320 --> 00:35:06.960
But that means that when you walk through the

00:35:06.960 --> 00:35:08.920
door, you can be mom and dad again. You can be

00:35:08.920 --> 00:35:11.099
present with your kids. And if you are looking

00:35:11.099 --> 00:35:14.119
to, you know, to to have another child, you increase

00:35:14.119 --> 00:35:16.320
the chance that that's going to be, you know,

00:35:16.320 --> 00:35:19.019
a healthier child. Hopefully, you know. free

00:35:19.019 --> 00:35:22.659
of any abnormalities with a relationship. When

00:35:22.659 --> 00:35:25.019
you come home, you're a loving partner. These

00:35:25.019 --> 00:35:28.159
are things that I think are absolute byproducts

00:35:28.159 --> 00:35:31.059
of when we do the work. And for all the, it's

00:35:31.059 --> 00:35:34.519
for them, chess beater lads and ladies, you are

00:35:34.519 --> 00:35:36.079
going to be a better firefighter when you do

00:35:36.079 --> 00:35:38.320
the work. You cannot operate at a high level

00:35:38.320 --> 00:35:40.679
when you're sleep deprived, when your mind is

00:35:40.679 --> 00:35:42.239
like a maelstrom. There's no way you're going

00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:43.860
to be able to be in a flow state in a primary

00:35:43.860 --> 00:35:47.139
search if you haven't slept. You know, so fighting

00:35:47.139 --> 00:35:50.280
for an environment, not only for your family's

00:35:50.280 --> 00:35:52.320
health, but to operate the highest level as a

00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:54.480
firefighter. So there is no downside. And it

00:35:54.480 --> 00:35:57.079
is it is selfless. Yes, you're going to end up

00:35:57.079 --> 00:35:58.659
working on you and you are going to benefit.

00:35:59.000 --> 00:36:01.519
But it's also going to benefit primarily your

00:36:01.519 --> 00:36:04.659
family, arguably the most important thing. And

00:36:04.659 --> 00:36:06.380
then a close second, the people that you protect

00:36:06.380 --> 00:36:09.420
in your community. Yeah, that's that's that's

00:36:09.420 --> 00:36:11.760
it, man. And it's that's kind of like the framing

00:36:11.760 --> 00:36:14.119
effect, right? Like we get to choose how we frame

00:36:14.119 --> 00:36:16.489
what we're doing. And that makes a huge difference.

00:36:16.530 --> 00:36:20.250
So if you don't like the idea of self -compassion,

00:36:20.250 --> 00:36:23.449
like you said, call it whatever. What's your

00:36:23.449 --> 00:36:26.210
why? Think about your kid or your spouse or whoever

00:36:26.210 --> 00:36:29.230
it is that like you want to be doing this for

00:36:29.230 --> 00:36:32.570
and just, you know, use your mind in that way

00:36:32.570 --> 00:36:37.070
to frame it to do this necessary work. Absolutely.

00:36:37.309 --> 00:36:39.769
Well, we kind of got you walking through into

00:36:39.769 --> 00:36:42.829
the profession as you progress through. What

00:36:42.829 --> 00:36:45.130
are some of the career calls that you remember?

00:36:45.369 --> 00:36:47.170
And it doesn't have to be the quote unquote worst

00:36:47.170 --> 00:36:48.809
thing by any means. But what are some of the

00:36:48.809 --> 00:36:51.130
ones that always pop in your head when you look

00:36:51.130 --> 00:36:56.610
back now? I mean, as far as like the bad stuff,

00:36:56.670 --> 00:36:58.809
maybe I'll start with some good ones because

00:36:58.809 --> 00:37:01.190
it's, you know, it's such a fun career, like

00:37:01.190 --> 00:37:04.710
getting to help people. And just like you said,

00:37:04.789 --> 00:37:06.489
you roll through bad neighborhoods or whatever.

00:37:06.650 --> 00:37:08.829
Everybody likes the fireman, like going into

00:37:08.829 --> 00:37:13.440
the store. And it's an amazing career. um doing

00:37:13.440 --> 00:37:16.260
pancake breakfast doing you know group workouts

00:37:16.260 --> 00:37:20.360
um doing hardship together like getting to do

00:37:20.360 --> 00:37:24.000
go on high ladders and and just do cool stuff

00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:29.219
it's their job is so cool you know um but as

00:37:29.219 --> 00:37:33.940
far as bad calls um a couple that you know stick

00:37:33.940 --> 00:37:36.659
out is the the my first call the one i explained

00:37:36.659 --> 00:37:40.920
with the guy who got hit on a bicycle um i have

00:37:41.559 --> 00:37:44.659
gone to a few hangings that that stick in my

00:37:44.659 --> 00:37:48.079
mind that uh that lifeless body kind of that

00:37:48.079 --> 00:37:53.360
slow sway it's that image is in my mind for it's

00:37:53.360 --> 00:37:58.420
been there for a while um but and then one that

00:37:58.420 --> 00:38:02.300
kind of was the end of my career um was a a young

00:38:02.300 --> 00:38:05.960
man and a young girl leaving a bar probably drunk

00:38:05.960 --> 00:38:10.230
from the bar the cop flicks the lights on to

00:38:10.230 --> 00:38:13.969
just pull them over and they decided to gun it

00:38:13.969 --> 00:38:16.650
and try to get away. They come through an intersection,

00:38:17.030 --> 00:38:21.710
nail into another vehicle. And the young man

00:38:21.710 --> 00:38:25.530
who was driving dead on scene and the young woman

00:38:25.530 --> 00:38:30.630
who was still conscious, although she was obliterated

00:38:30.630 --> 00:38:34.789
on alcohol, she was kind of shoved in the floorboard

00:38:34.789 --> 00:38:39.309
of the passenger side. I got there, pulled her

00:38:39.309 --> 00:38:42.269
out. We got her in the ambulance, started to

00:38:42.269 --> 00:38:46.329
do the protocols. And as I go down the protocols

00:38:46.329 --> 00:38:49.570
of getting a line, establishing access to get

00:38:49.570 --> 00:38:53.730
meds and all that, every limb I came to, there

00:38:53.730 --> 00:38:57.610
was no access point. Everything was intact, but

00:38:57.610 --> 00:39:01.510
everything was broken inside of the body. And

00:39:01.510 --> 00:39:06.949
that call really just... Kind of it just rocked

00:39:06.949 --> 00:39:10.150
me. I talk about in the video you referred to

00:39:10.150 --> 00:39:14.309
earlier about this helplessness that really it

00:39:14.309 --> 00:39:18.909
really fucked my world up because we want to

00:39:18.909 --> 00:39:22.969
help. And I had throughout my career, like I

00:39:22.969 --> 00:39:25.210
did a good job as a medic. Most of the calls

00:39:25.210 --> 00:39:29.789
I could handle, I did a good job. But understanding

00:39:29.789 --> 00:39:32.929
the accumulative effect. it's only a matter of

00:39:32.929 --> 00:39:37.010
time before a bad call is just too much um and

00:39:37.010 --> 00:39:39.409
that kind of is what happened that that came

00:39:39.409 --> 00:39:41.949
on the tail end of our department was short -handed

00:39:41.949 --> 00:39:45.010
for a bit and you know getting mandatory at a

00:39:45.010 --> 00:39:49.090
ridiculous pace um the stress that causes on

00:39:49.090 --> 00:39:52.650
a family and uh just your your even your your

00:39:52.650 --> 00:39:55.769
one chance to catch a breath um is no longer

00:39:55.769 --> 00:40:01.900
there so um yeah that That helplessness and that

00:40:01.900 --> 00:40:05.739
overwhelm kind of led toward the end of my career.

00:40:07.059 --> 00:40:11.199
Because I didn't feel I could do the job anymore.

00:40:11.599 --> 00:40:13.900
You know, I needed help. And that was my goal

00:40:13.900 --> 00:40:17.480
was to get help in return. But just the way life

00:40:17.480 --> 00:40:21.800
has taken me, my talents are being used elsewhere,

00:40:21.900 --> 00:40:24.840
I guess. My ability to help is being funneled

00:40:24.840 --> 00:40:29.769
into a new direction. When you look back. What

00:40:29.769 --> 00:40:32.230
are some of the lows? What was that breakdown?

00:40:32.550 --> 00:40:34.789
And then this is an important conversation as

00:40:34.789 --> 00:40:37.650
well. I mean, a dead horse that I flog constantly.

00:40:37.750 --> 00:40:41.989
But also, what was the impact of this mandatory

00:40:41.989 --> 00:40:47.210
overtime on the family unit? I'll start. I forget

00:40:47.210 --> 00:40:48.530
your first question, but I'll start with the

00:40:48.530 --> 00:40:53.550
mandatory overtime. I mean, it's the worst feeling

00:40:53.550 --> 00:40:56.329
when you've already been there doing the thing.

00:40:56.409 --> 00:40:59.159
You had a shitty night. You saw some fucked up

00:40:59.159 --> 00:41:02.679
shit and then you think you're going to go home.

00:41:02.780 --> 00:41:05.199
You got plans with the wife to do this, to do

00:41:05.199 --> 00:41:08.639
that. You know, the job is so hard on the family

00:41:08.639 --> 00:41:12.360
already that if you've been in it, you know how

00:41:12.360 --> 00:41:15.460
tough it is on your spouse and you know how much

00:41:15.460 --> 00:41:18.679
they look forward to your days off. And then

00:41:18.679 --> 00:41:21.800
working a job where you you literally just you

00:41:21.800 --> 00:41:26.260
can't go home like it's. It's an interesting

00:41:26.260 --> 00:41:30.679
situation, to say the least. So the first part

00:41:30.679 --> 00:41:32.199
of the question was, what were some of the lows?

00:41:32.239 --> 00:41:34.760
The breaking point was, you know, that last call.

00:41:34.880 --> 00:41:36.699
But what were you seeing? What were the red flags

00:41:36.699 --> 00:41:42.480
prior to that? The compassion fatigue. So and

00:41:42.480 --> 00:41:45.280
that's honestly in the fire service. A lot of

00:41:45.280 --> 00:41:47.699
people wear it as a badge of honor. Like you're

00:41:47.699 --> 00:41:49.519
so you're so fucking tough. You know, nothing

00:41:49.519 --> 00:41:52.869
bothers you. But that's because you've turned

00:41:52.869 --> 00:41:54.650
your heart off. You've turned your compassion

00:41:54.650 --> 00:41:57.409
off. And I definitely went through that where,

00:41:57.510 --> 00:42:01.449
you know, you go to a call and you just you don't

00:42:01.449 --> 00:42:04.289
give a shit and you just want to get them to

00:42:04.289 --> 00:42:06.550
the hospital and get back to bed because you're

00:42:06.550 --> 00:42:11.630
so shot. So that the compassion fatigue, just

00:42:11.630 --> 00:42:15.269
the sleep is shit. Like shift work is horrible

00:42:15.269 --> 00:42:18.289
for your for your sleep. And then, you know.

00:42:18.840 --> 00:42:21.500
The stress on top of it, like so many of us have

00:42:21.500 --> 00:42:24.340
sleeping issues, whether it's sleep apnea or

00:42:24.340 --> 00:42:27.699
restless leg syndrome, all these things that

00:42:27.699 --> 00:42:32.719
come from the stress of the job. So the compassion

00:42:32.719 --> 00:42:35.820
fatigue, my sleep was garbage, gaining weight

00:42:35.820 --> 00:42:39.559
because of excess stress. Also, when you're tired,

00:42:39.840 --> 00:42:43.099
you want to eat garbage food. Your society mechanisms

00:42:43.099 --> 00:42:46.949
get messed up. So irritability. You know what

00:42:46.949 --> 00:42:50.170
I mean? Like being an asshole, which isn't great

00:42:50.170 --> 00:42:56.010
for your relationship. A lack of just interest

00:42:56.010 --> 00:42:58.630
in doing things. You know what I mean? Like grew

00:42:58.630 --> 00:43:02.690
up playing hockey, doing shit, always doing fun

00:43:02.690 --> 00:43:05.570
things. And then the job kind of eats you up

00:43:05.570 --> 00:43:08.769
and you just become a fireman and you wear a

00:43:08.769 --> 00:43:11.309
fireman shirt everywhere. And you only talk to

00:43:11.309 --> 00:43:14.369
firemen and we like isolate ourselves and we

00:43:14.369 --> 00:43:17.869
forget what it is to be a human. Absolutely.

00:43:18.070 --> 00:43:21.369
Just while I remember, when you reflect back

00:43:21.369 --> 00:43:24.650
at when you were testing, how competitive was

00:43:24.650 --> 00:43:26.710
it then compared to what you're hearing now?

00:43:27.190 --> 00:43:30.769
Yeah, this is another big point, the hiring crisis.

00:43:30.929 --> 00:43:36.309
So when I tested for Miami -Dade, I guess 14,

00:43:36.570 --> 00:43:40.670
15 years ago, from what I remember, 10 ,000 applicants

00:43:40.670 --> 00:43:45.070
for 100 spots. at the time was the norm, which

00:43:45.070 --> 00:43:46.929
is why I ended up getting hired in Northwest

00:43:46.929 --> 00:43:51.630
Florida, because I was a young fire medic with

00:43:51.630 --> 00:43:54.090
an associates and all these other things, but

00:43:54.090 --> 00:43:57.469
I had no experience. So, you know, I applied

00:43:57.469 --> 00:43:59.989
up here and got hired where it was less competitive,

00:44:00.070 --> 00:44:04.010
but still competitive. But now we know there's

00:44:04.010 --> 00:44:06.469
a hiring crisis going on because people are more

00:44:06.469 --> 00:44:09.730
aware of what the job is. And that's where it's

00:44:09.730 --> 00:44:12.130
such an opportunity to jump on the mental health

00:44:12.130 --> 00:44:15.920
thing. Like, I've heard you talking about it,

00:44:15.920 --> 00:44:19.420
how recruits will have compared departments now

00:44:19.420 --> 00:44:21.840
and know what's good and what's bad. Back in

00:44:21.840 --> 00:44:24.159
the day, you just wanted to get on and you go

00:44:24.159 --> 00:44:26.039
wherever. Like, you just wanted to get a job.

00:44:26.300 --> 00:44:30.079
And now it's like everybody, there's so much

00:44:30.079 --> 00:44:33.420
access to information that the departments who

00:44:33.420 --> 00:44:36.380
take mental health seriously, they're going to

00:44:36.380 --> 00:44:38.260
become the hotspots. They're going to be the

00:44:38.260 --> 00:44:41.079
ones who are turning away applicants. You know

00:44:41.079 --> 00:44:46.789
what I mean? It's an ounce of prevention is worth

00:44:46.789 --> 00:44:48.929
a pound of cure, right? I forget who says that,

00:44:49.130 --> 00:44:54.630
but we got to start doing stuff on the front

00:44:54.630 --> 00:44:57.190
end to prepare our people mentally to do this

00:44:57.190 --> 00:45:00.869
job. We can't neglect the SOGs and the training

00:45:00.869 --> 00:45:03.190
and the algorithms. That shit has to be on point

00:45:03.190 --> 00:45:07.750
too. But we also got to do this other part. Yeah,

00:45:07.809 --> 00:45:09.670
I think it was Benjamin Franklin that said that.

00:45:09.750 --> 00:45:12.289
I think it was. Possibly. Someone smarter than

00:45:12.289 --> 00:45:15.150
myself. I'm good at repeating them, but... Some

00:45:15.150 --> 00:45:16.909
wise old dude is spilling temperature. Yeah,

00:45:16.909 --> 00:45:21.469
but this is the thing. And it's funny because

00:45:21.469 --> 00:45:23.590
when you were talking about that, I totally forgot

00:45:23.590 --> 00:45:26.570
about this. When I tested for Hialeah, which

00:45:26.570 --> 00:45:30.510
was 2004 when I got hired there, it was the same

00:45:30.510 --> 00:45:33.820
level of competition. And I remember taking the

00:45:33.820 --> 00:45:35.500
job and we didn't even know how much we were

00:45:35.500 --> 00:45:38.300
going to get paid for like three weeks. And it

00:45:38.300 --> 00:45:40.619
ended up being absolute dog shit. But we were

00:45:40.619 --> 00:45:42.260
still like, oh, well, you know, we're working

00:45:42.260 --> 00:45:44.219
as firefighters. And it was a great department,

00:45:44.340 --> 00:45:46.860
despite the absolute lack of support from the

00:45:46.860 --> 00:45:49.380
city of Hialeah and some of the chiefs and mayors

00:45:49.380 --> 00:45:52.960
they've had since. But amazing, amazing firefighters.

00:45:53.199 --> 00:45:55.699
The bar was set high and they kept it high regardless.

00:45:56.889 --> 00:45:59.750
But yeah, I think Miami -Dade earned almost double

00:45:59.750 --> 00:46:01.369
what we did when I got hired. I think it was

00:46:01.369 --> 00:46:04.409
like $32 ,000 that we got down in South Florida,

00:46:04.489 --> 00:46:06.389
which is not very much money at all back then.

00:46:06.769 --> 00:46:09.030
But that was what it was like. I mean, you were

00:46:09.030 --> 00:46:10.989
just vying. And then I went to California, and

00:46:10.989 --> 00:46:14.829
the written test was 1 ,000 candidates. And when

00:46:14.829 --> 00:46:17.250
I say fat resume, just like you were alluding

00:46:17.250 --> 00:46:22.030
to, fire, EMT or medic, ambulance operator, wildland

00:46:22.030 --> 00:46:26.380
experience, volunteer, all the things. And that's

00:46:26.380 --> 00:46:28.139
who was sitting at the written test, a thousand

00:46:28.139 --> 00:46:30.539
of them. And there was 30 spots, three zero.

00:46:31.079 --> 00:46:33.360
So this is what I'm trying to get people to kind

00:46:33.360 --> 00:46:35.480
of remember. It was only 10 years ago that it

00:46:35.480 --> 00:46:37.960
was still pretty close to that as far as competition.

00:46:38.480 --> 00:46:41.880
And we have nosedived from there. So just like

00:46:41.880 --> 00:46:44.159
you said, the Boynton Beaches, the Destins, the

00:46:44.159 --> 00:46:45.940
Palm Beach Counties, the Palm Beach Gardens,

00:46:46.219 --> 00:46:48.940
you know, the Miramars, all these other departments

00:46:48.940 --> 00:46:52.840
that have gone to it, Gainesville, Pasco County.

00:46:53.500 --> 00:46:56.619
All of those are going to be the thought leaders

00:46:56.619 --> 00:46:58.539
now. And that's what we're seeing. Recruitment

00:46:58.539 --> 00:47:00.699
has exploded in all those areas as soon as they've

00:47:00.699 --> 00:47:02.920
announced it, because they're saying, we give

00:47:02.920 --> 00:47:05.559
a shit about people. And when you attract all

00:47:05.559 --> 00:47:08.440
these recruits, now you fill those spots. I think

00:47:08.440 --> 00:47:11.000
April, Gainesville will be fully staffed again

00:47:11.000 --> 00:47:15.659
with 2472. So this is the answer. But going back

00:47:15.659 --> 00:47:18.480
to that courage, there is no downside. It even

00:47:18.480 --> 00:47:21.769
saves money downstream, city and county. The

00:47:21.769 --> 00:47:24.210
only thing that's required is courage, not just

00:47:24.210 --> 00:47:26.550
from the chiefs and the union presidents, but

00:47:26.550 --> 00:47:29.050
also from the naysay firefighters that are shrugging

00:47:29.050 --> 00:47:30.590
their shoulders and say, oh, they'll never go

00:47:30.590 --> 00:47:33.010
for it. It'll never happen, which I hear locally

00:47:33.010 --> 00:47:35.789
here. And I want to fucking choke people. Like,

00:47:35.809 --> 00:47:38.550
think about what this would do for your family.

00:47:38.650 --> 00:47:42.369
You would be home so much more. Do not resist

00:47:42.369 --> 00:47:44.289
the very change that we're trying to do. It's

00:47:44.289 --> 00:47:47.139
like resisting an SCBA back in the day. And just

00:47:47.139 --> 00:47:48.739
shrugging your shoulders and go, well, you know,

00:47:48.760 --> 00:47:51.400
cancer is not that bad. Yes, it fucking is. And

00:47:51.400 --> 00:47:53.619
so are these deaths that we're having now. Miami

00:47:53.619 --> 00:47:56.820
-Dade just lost a firefighter. So, you know,

00:47:56.820 --> 00:47:59.039
this is I think what's so important is we are,

00:47:59.079 --> 00:48:01.019
just like you said, at a beautiful opportunity

00:48:01.019 --> 00:48:05.179
to force change. So be that department that is

00:48:05.179 --> 00:48:07.260
the tip of the spear and shows the rest of the

00:48:07.260 --> 00:48:09.619
community that you actually give a shit about

00:48:09.619 --> 00:48:12.579
your men and women in uniform. Yeah, absolutely.

00:48:14.680 --> 00:48:17.400
Just with you saying that, I want to shout out

00:48:17.400 --> 00:48:20.579
Frederick Firestone in Colorado, Chief Young.

00:48:21.059 --> 00:48:27.000
They are thought leaders in this field, and they're

00:48:27.000 --> 00:48:30.559
doing mental health in a different way than what

00:48:30.559 --> 00:48:34.159
I've seen it be done as. And I'm not saying they

00:48:34.159 --> 00:48:36.820
got it all figured out, but it's something different.

00:48:37.099 --> 00:48:40.599
They're changing the culture out there, and I'm

00:48:40.599 --> 00:48:43.820
just grateful to be a part of it, honestly. Beautiful.

00:48:44.400 --> 00:48:48.039
Well, we kind of left off as you starting to

00:48:48.039 --> 00:48:50.119
have that crisis. You had that last call. It

00:48:50.119 --> 00:48:52.360
crushed you death by a thousand cuts by that

00:48:52.360 --> 00:48:56.539
point. Walk me through the support or lack thereof

00:48:56.539 --> 00:48:58.880
of your department. And then, you know, what

00:48:58.880 --> 00:49:02.320
was the healing journey from there? Yeah. So

00:49:02.320 --> 00:49:06.139
this is a sensitive subject for me. It although

00:49:06.139 --> 00:49:10.980
we had a the like the slogans of it's OK to not

00:49:10.980 --> 00:49:14.079
be OK. We had the coffee mugs going around with

00:49:14.079 --> 00:49:16.900
that all over them. Unfortunately, my experience

00:49:16.900 --> 00:49:20.780
when I asked for help, there was, you know, it's

00:49:20.780 --> 00:49:23.980
kind of representative of what we do. There was

00:49:23.980 --> 00:49:28.699
like, okay, you know, the logistical aspect of

00:49:28.699 --> 00:49:31.940
it, you go on light duty, you do this, you go

00:49:31.940 --> 00:49:34.320
deal with workers' comp, you have to do all these

00:49:34.320 --> 00:49:38.659
things, but there was no compassion. And then

00:49:38.659 --> 00:49:42.500
my experience on light duty, I dealt with, You

00:49:42.500 --> 00:49:46.900
know, I'm there supposing to do, you know, whatever

00:49:46.900 --> 00:49:50.980
I can to help out. But I was at such a broken

00:49:50.980 --> 00:49:53.980
place that just being at the station, hearing

00:49:53.980 --> 00:49:57.019
the tones go off, seeing all the things was triggering

00:49:57.019 --> 00:50:01.539
to me. And I could not stop myself but from having

00:50:01.539 --> 00:50:05.119
panic attacks while I'm on light duty, while

00:50:05.119 --> 00:50:06.920
I'm supposed to be cutting the yard or doing

00:50:06.920 --> 00:50:10.880
this and that task. And I'm, you know, hiding

00:50:10.880 --> 00:50:14.900
in the station having a panic attack. So there

00:50:14.900 --> 00:50:18.460
was not a great level of awareness around this

00:50:18.460 --> 00:50:21.800
stuff. And unfortunately, I had some less than,

00:50:21.800 --> 00:50:23.960
you know, happy interactions with some of the

00:50:23.960 --> 00:50:30.000
people who I was dealing with. But I was thankful

00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:32.460
that there is something, you know, I was able

00:50:32.460 --> 00:50:35.539
to get off the line and start seeing some doctors.

00:50:36.570 --> 00:50:39.070
Um, and that, that started the, you know, the

00:50:39.070 --> 00:50:42.210
journey, you know, at least I wasn't, I wasn't

00:50:42.210 --> 00:50:45.190
in the position to hurt anybody as far as a citizen,

00:50:45.369 --> 00:50:47.610
because that's what really fucked me up is that

00:50:47.610 --> 00:50:50.489
I was having a hard time, you know, just keeping

00:50:50.489 --> 00:50:53.789
it together. I was terrified of hurting somebody,

00:50:53.829 --> 00:50:57.110
you know, like we take the Hippocratic oath and

00:50:57.110 --> 00:51:00.030
again, just hearkening back to that idea of helping,

00:51:00.170 --> 00:51:03.150
like, I don't want to hurt. I want to help. Um,

00:51:03.230 --> 00:51:07.829
and I was in a position where I. I was not in

00:51:07.829 --> 00:51:10.949
a good place for a long time and I was running

00:51:10.949 --> 00:51:14.150
calls and it took a while for me to have the

00:51:14.150 --> 00:51:17.949
balls, the courage to say I'm not OK. So I'm

00:51:17.949 --> 00:51:21.429
proud of myself for it now. And I thank God I

00:51:21.429 --> 00:51:25.170
had a supportive spouse who she's just amazing.

00:51:25.489 --> 00:51:27.489
And I don't know how I could have done it without

00:51:27.489 --> 00:51:32.309
her. So I love you, babe. Thank you. So I've

00:51:32.309 --> 00:51:34.929
heard a lot of horror stories from people that

00:51:34.929 --> 00:51:37.889
have been sent to counselors through whatever

00:51:37.889 --> 00:51:40.230
kind of health care system, a city or a county

00:51:40.230 --> 00:51:42.650
has, and they sit in front of someone who is

00:51:42.650 --> 00:51:45.389
actually detrimental, not helpful. What were

00:51:45.389 --> 00:51:48.769
your experiences trying to find culturally competent

00:51:48.769 --> 00:51:52.070
clinicians that would help you? Yeah, so that

00:51:52.070 --> 00:51:55.489
was an area that I think just the Northwest Florida

00:51:55.489 --> 00:51:58.050
maybe was a little behind on. We didn't have

00:51:58.050 --> 00:52:03.980
many vetted. doctors. So it was kind of just

00:52:03.980 --> 00:52:07.239
whoever workers come through at me. And I went

00:52:07.239 --> 00:52:09.579
through a couple different ones that weren't

00:52:09.579 --> 00:52:13.059
helpful, were helpful. And then luckily found

00:52:13.059 --> 00:52:17.579
one in particular, who was my EMDR therapist,

00:52:17.699 --> 00:52:21.239
but more just like a talk therapist type thing.

00:52:21.340 --> 00:52:27.619
She was a good therapist. And I think that's

00:52:27.619 --> 00:52:29.599
a big part of the mental health stuff. It's like,

00:52:30.159 --> 00:52:31.920
You just have to find someone you click with

00:52:31.920 --> 00:52:36.960
and see it as brain coaching. It's a chance for

00:52:36.960 --> 00:52:39.960
you to unload all that shit in your brain once

00:52:39.960 --> 00:52:43.820
or twice a week. And the sooner you start and

00:52:43.820 --> 00:52:46.420
the sooner you find somebody that you work with,

00:52:46.659 --> 00:52:49.699
that relationship deepens and they help you to

00:52:49.699 --> 00:52:54.800
be a better person. So it was just by luck that

00:52:54.800 --> 00:52:57.699
I got somebody like that after, like I said,

00:52:57.739 --> 00:53:00.409
dealing with a couple who were not. helpful and

00:53:00.409 --> 00:53:04.170
not great. But we definitely have to do a better

00:53:04.170 --> 00:53:06.650
job as departments of having these people already

00:53:06.650 --> 00:53:09.190
in place. And that's kind of what Frederick's

00:53:09.190 --> 00:53:12.289
doing that's different is they have brought in

00:53:12.289 --> 00:53:14.829
a therapist named Sammy, who's just an amazing

00:53:14.829 --> 00:53:18.769
person. And she's part of the culture. You know,

00:53:18.789 --> 00:53:20.949
I mean, it's she's there on a regular basis.

00:53:21.030 --> 00:53:23.409
She's doing the stuff. She she's a different

00:53:23.409 --> 00:53:25.769
therapist than most therapists I've ever seen.

00:53:27.130 --> 00:53:31.469
And as firemen and firewomen, we do have to trust

00:53:31.469 --> 00:53:33.590
the person we're sitting across from. So that's

00:53:33.590 --> 00:53:37.409
a super important part. Therapy works if you

00:53:37.409 --> 00:53:40.230
trust the person across from you. Yeah, this

00:53:40.230 --> 00:53:42.150
is one thing that I've heard that really seems

00:53:42.150 --> 00:53:44.710
to be a common denominator when it comes to solutions.

00:53:45.389 --> 00:53:48.510
Hiring a mental, again, a culturally competent

00:53:48.510 --> 00:53:52.130
clinician of some sort for a department seems

00:53:52.130 --> 00:53:54.550
to be the gold standard. Now, you know, if you're

00:53:54.550 --> 00:53:57.659
in a smaller area. Then again, try and find someone

00:53:57.659 --> 00:53:59.719
that you share with two or three different agencies

00:53:59.719 --> 00:54:02.480
if you have to. But if I think about the barrier

00:54:02.480 --> 00:54:05.619
to entry, it's the EAP horror stories. All these

00:54:05.619 --> 00:54:07.260
people, it's a Russian roulette, whether you're

00:54:07.260 --> 00:54:08.940
actually going to get someone who even can help

00:54:08.940 --> 00:54:12.739
you. You have the saturation of some of those.

00:54:12.780 --> 00:54:14.840
So now you can't get an appointment for four

00:54:14.840 --> 00:54:16.460
months, which I've heard those horror stories,

00:54:16.599 --> 00:54:19.260
or just simply the financial element. A lot of

00:54:19.260 --> 00:54:22.579
these counselors are not in network and they're

00:54:22.579 --> 00:54:26.389
like $100, $150 a session. So investing in that

00:54:26.389 --> 00:54:29.449
person that can be at the front door so they

00:54:29.449 --> 00:54:30.789
can even, you know, one of the things I think

00:54:30.789 --> 00:54:34.329
that we should do is give counseling sessions

00:54:34.329 --> 00:54:36.769
like right at the front door, like, you know,

00:54:36.769 --> 00:54:40.230
during probation, have six, eight sessions, because

00:54:40.230 --> 00:54:42.250
as we mentioned, how many of us brought stuff

00:54:42.250 --> 00:54:45.030
in? Almost all of us. So it doesn't mean you're

00:54:45.030 --> 00:54:47.090
going to tear your heart open and bare your soul

00:54:47.090 --> 00:54:49.829
on day one, but you have this relationship, you

00:54:49.829 --> 00:54:52.150
start building it up. It might be nothing to

00:54:52.150 --> 00:54:53.849
do with the calls. It might be that you finally

00:54:53.849 --> 00:54:55.510
want to talk about what happened when you were

00:54:55.510 --> 00:54:59.610
six. Whatever it is, you have that mental health

00:54:59.610 --> 00:55:01.510
conversation is normalized at the door. There's

00:55:01.510 --> 00:55:04.130
no barrier to entry. And you know exactly who

00:55:04.130 --> 00:55:05.889
you're going to see. It's going to be person

00:55:05.889 --> 00:55:09.809
X who you've seen 10 times already. So I think

00:55:09.809 --> 00:55:12.150
that absolutely, again, if we talk about a professional

00:55:12.150 --> 00:55:15.010
standard, having, you know, hiring an actual.

00:55:15.449 --> 00:55:17.349
you know clinician whether it's part of the staff

00:55:17.349 --> 00:55:19.230
or whether they're contracted and they come in

00:55:19.230 --> 00:55:22.650
you know x amount of days a week that to me is

00:55:22.650 --> 00:55:24.429
is really the gold standard that we need to be

00:55:24.429 --> 00:55:28.469
chasing yeah no absolutely it's it's a tough

00:55:28.469 --> 00:55:31.449
thing though because we're we're we're a cranky

00:55:31.449 --> 00:55:34.289
bunch of people sometimes so it's it's tough

00:55:34.289 --> 00:55:38.829
to find that right therapist um and i just off

00:55:38.829 --> 00:55:41.869
you saying that i i remember another um we had

00:55:41.869 --> 00:55:47.420
like a chapel or a chaplain on on staff And this

00:55:47.420 --> 00:55:51.599
was really disheartening because I after really

00:55:51.599 --> 00:55:55.400
struggling, I was desperate to speak to someone.

00:55:55.440 --> 00:55:59.699
And I spoke to this chaplain and he he listened.

00:56:00.679 --> 00:56:04.860
But there was never a follow up in that that

00:56:04.860 --> 00:56:08.219
when I was I was like suicidal at that point

00:56:08.219 --> 00:56:12.099
that nearly crushed me because I was like, OK,

00:56:12.300 --> 00:56:16.090
10 for you just. All you did, like, for the department,

00:56:16.210 --> 00:56:18.750
you let me air it out, but I get it. You don't

00:56:18.750 --> 00:56:22.349
give a shit. And that really hurt. And that's

00:56:22.349 --> 00:56:25.309
a hard part with this mental health stuff. It's

00:56:25.309 --> 00:56:28.670
tough to ask for help. And we rah -rah about

00:56:28.670 --> 00:56:33.769
the brotherhood. But unfortunately, my experience

00:56:33.769 --> 00:56:37.030
was when I asked for help, I became the outcast.

00:56:37.389 --> 00:56:40.309
You know what I mean? I had my aspirations of...

00:56:41.579 --> 00:56:43.860
promoting and doing anything else kind of went

00:56:43.860 --> 00:56:47.699
out the window um and it's a shame because i

00:56:47.699 --> 00:56:55.360
was a young capable uh fit good medic who had

00:56:55.360 --> 00:57:00.219
a deep desire to continue helping and you know

00:57:00.219 --> 00:57:03.619
i because of the way things went it just made

00:57:03.619 --> 00:57:07.809
it almost you know impossible to get back I've

00:57:07.809 --> 00:57:10.170
had one of my friends who was in crisis, and

00:57:10.170 --> 00:57:13.769
he went to the chaplain. And there are some phenomenal

00:57:13.769 --> 00:57:15.670
chaplains out there, and they're a right fit

00:57:15.670 --> 00:57:19.329
at certain times. But I know if someone sat down

00:57:19.329 --> 00:57:23.750
with me and they said, God has a plan, or Jesus,

00:57:23.849 --> 00:57:28.610
insert thing here, if you're not really leaning

00:57:28.610 --> 00:57:30.789
into that particular religion, that doesn't actually

00:57:30.789 --> 00:57:34.150
help. It doesn't. It's just empty words to you.

00:57:37.260 --> 00:57:38.900
you know, when it's someone of a certain faith

00:57:38.900 --> 00:57:41.699
that you're not saying something that might work

00:57:41.699 --> 00:57:43.519
in your congregation because they came to your

00:57:43.519 --> 00:57:46.360
church because they are part of your faith. But

00:57:46.360 --> 00:57:48.440
now you're talking to someone, whether from a

00:57:48.440 --> 00:57:50.239
different faith or maybe they're agnostic or

00:57:50.239 --> 00:57:52.900
whatever it is, those words may not be healing

00:57:52.900 --> 00:57:54.679
for them at all. So, and I watched that happen

00:57:54.679 --> 00:57:56.360
with one of my friends. It just made it worse.

00:57:57.280 --> 00:58:01.480
Yeah. And that wasn't my experience. It was just

00:58:01.480 --> 00:58:04.519
the follow -up piece. And that's like something

00:58:04.519 --> 00:58:06.440
that I haven't heard talked about much, but it's

00:58:06.440 --> 00:58:09.099
like, You know, we encourage people to ask for

00:58:09.099 --> 00:58:11.920
help. But something that's really important to

00:58:11.920 --> 00:58:14.460
understand is when you're in those low spots,

00:58:14.780 --> 00:58:19.480
it is fucking hard to ask for help. So when someone's

00:58:19.480 --> 00:58:21.880
desperate enough to actually ask for help and

00:58:21.880 --> 00:58:25.820
then it's kind of just left and they're not circled

00:58:25.820 --> 00:58:28.440
back to that may have been their last attempt.

00:58:28.719 --> 00:58:32.019
You know what I mean? And and that I don't know.

00:58:32.559 --> 00:58:35.659
I have to give credit to my wife for keeping

00:58:35.659 --> 00:58:39.739
me. you know in it but if i was a single man

00:58:39.739 --> 00:58:41.639
at that point i probably that probably would

00:58:41.639 --> 00:58:44.219
have been the end of it because you know i was

00:58:44.219 --> 00:58:48.260
just the the message was you're an inconvenience

00:58:48.260 --> 00:58:50.840
you know i mean we we really don't give a fuck

00:58:50.840 --> 00:58:52.940
we need someone to fill that next seat we'll

00:58:52.940 --> 00:58:56.320
just hire the next young stud type of thing i

00:58:56.320 --> 00:58:59.659
don't think people realize how detrimental um

00:59:00.500 --> 00:59:03.159
organizational betrayal is if you actually kind

00:59:03.159 --> 00:59:05.420
of break it down you think about us being a tribal

00:59:05.420 --> 00:59:09.219
species you enter a profession where you literally

00:59:09.219 --> 00:59:11.340
will lay down your life for the man or woman

00:59:11.340 --> 00:59:13.559
to the right or left of you and for the people

00:59:13.559 --> 00:59:16.739
that you're serving and then you know you have

00:59:16.739 --> 00:59:18.780
this issue whether it's a back injury or whether

00:59:18.780 --> 00:59:22.039
it's ptsd and now the tribe turns their back

00:59:22.039 --> 00:59:25.119
on you if you look at ancient man when we were

00:59:25.119 --> 00:59:28.280
excommunicated that meant death You know, so

00:59:28.280 --> 00:59:32.579
it really is so crushing. What what kind of impact

00:59:32.579 --> 00:59:35.579
did that part, you know, after you had your diagnosis,

00:59:35.760 --> 00:59:38.760
this kind of lack of support have on your mental

00:59:38.760 --> 00:59:42.920
health? I mean, it just it made it harder. Absolutely.

00:59:42.960 --> 00:59:48.139
And I all I wanted was for them to be open to

00:59:48.139 --> 00:59:50.059
understanding. You know, I mean, it was like

00:59:50.059 --> 00:59:53.989
when I first was on light duty, I was like. I

00:59:53.989 --> 00:59:56.150
was learning about meditation and breath work

00:59:56.150 --> 00:59:59.409
and ice baths and sauna and float tanks and all

00:59:59.409 --> 01:00:03.449
these other things. And part of like just the

01:00:03.449 --> 01:00:06.210
person I am, it's like, yeah, I was in a shit

01:00:06.210 --> 01:00:07.769
spot, but it's like, I still want to be productive

01:00:07.769 --> 01:00:11.670
and do something. So I was studying all these

01:00:11.670 --> 01:00:13.550
things. They were helping me. And I was like,

01:00:13.570 --> 01:00:17.590
I wanted to present it to the department. And

01:00:17.590 --> 01:00:21.530
it just, it kind of fell on deaf ears. um i'm

01:00:21.530 --> 01:00:23.909
sorry dude i i lost what was the the question

01:00:23.909 --> 01:00:28.210
um no the impact of this uh kind of organizational

01:00:28.210 --> 01:00:30.510
betrayal this lack of support after you'd already

01:00:30.510 --> 01:00:32.869
been diagnosed yeah it was it was that piece

01:00:32.869 --> 01:00:36.829
of not feeling understood and like i spoke about

01:00:36.829 --> 01:00:38.690
a little bit earlier i had i came from a divorced

01:00:38.690 --> 01:00:43.510
family i was a lost young man the fire service

01:00:43.510 --> 01:00:46.170
gobbled me up and i fell hook line sinker for

01:00:46.170 --> 01:00:48.789
the brotherhood and the family and i felt that

01:00:48.789 --> 01:00:54.420
at times for sure Um, but it was like going through

01:00:54.420 --> 01:00:55.900
another divorce again, you know what I mean?

01:00:55.980 --> 01:00:58.380
And it's like, it just made shit really fucking

01:00:58.380 --> 01:01:02.739
tough when just, you know, a couple of weeks

01:01:02.739 --> 01:01:05.780
prior, I was, I was on the box with you and we

01:01:05.780 --> 01:01:08.139
were running calls and we were, we were sharing

01:01:08.139 --> 01:01:10.340
hard times together and we were, we were brothers

01:01:10.340 --> 01:01:12.940
and, you know, I was respected and all this shit.

01:01:13.019 --> 01:01:16.320
And now I'm a fucking weirdo who's on light duty.

01:01:17.219 --> 01:01:20.000
Everybody's avoiding me because If they talk

01:01:20.000 --> 01:01:22.980
to me, you know, it's like any guy that would

01:01:22.980 --> 01:01:25.340
talk to me and ask me about the process, I would

01:01:25.340 --> 01:01:27.599
tell them what it was like. And it became obvious

01:01:27.599 --> 01:01:29.699
to me that half my damn department needs help.

01:01:30.119 --> 01:01:32.320
And no one wants to fucking ask for help. You

01:01:32.320 --> 01:01:35.559
know what I mean? So it's just a mess. And that

01:01:35.559 --> 01:01:40.039
that shit really hurt because I had found a new

01:01:40.039 --> 01:01:43.840
family that gave me purpose. And then I was dropped

01:01:43.840 --> 01:01:46.500
and I got fucking angry at the fire service.

01:01:46.539 --> 01:01:49.519
You know what I mean? And and. Three years later

01:01:49.519 --> 01:01:51.539
now and getting to do this work with Frederick

01:01:51.539 --> 01:01:54.019
and getting to teach different fire departments,

01:01:54.280 --> 01:01:57.780
it's like I'm re -finding that brotherhood, which

01:01:57.780 --> 01:02:00.619
is what we need to do. Like, it is a brotherhood.

01:02:00.639 --> 01:02:02.440
You know what I mean? We need to respect those

01:02:02.440 --> 01:02:06.260
traditions and be playful and have a great time.

01:02:07.119 --> 01:02:09.400
But you should also be able to cry with your

01:02:09.400 --> 01:02:11.760
brother and laugh with him and dance with him.

01:02:11.800 --> 01:02:15.019
You know what I mean? So it sucked. It really

01:02:15.019 --> 01:02:19.679
hurt. a dream of coming back around to my old

01:02:19.679 --> 01:02:22.440
station and, and getting them in on the work

01:02:22.440 --> 01:02:25.599
I'm doing now, because again, no hard feelings.

01:02:25.639 --> 01:02:28.920
It is what it is. You know, we lack the awareness

01:02:28.920 --> 01:02:31.860
that sometimes and, and there's always room for

01:02:31.860 --> 01:02:35.320
growth. So let's just help each other. You know

01:02:35.320 --> 01:02:36.900
what I mean? Let's, let's do something about

01:02:36.900 --> 01:02:39.920
this mental health crisis, be the chief, be the

01:02:39.920 --> 01:02:42.500
department that jumps on the opportunity, you

01:02:42.500 --> 01:02:45.460
know, like. it's going to be a few years now

01:02:45.460 --> 01:02:47.900
where there's these shifts and you're going to

01:02:47.900 --> 01:02:51.400
have department a with multiple suicides department

01:02:51.400 --> 01:02:55.699
b everybody's doing great and from a financial

01:02:55.699 --> 01:02:59.099
standpoint like come on again put some money

01:02:59.099 --> 01:03:02.619
on the front end like empower your people we

01:03:02.619 --> 01:03:06.260
all we everybody in this job wants to help like

01:03:06.260 --> 01:03:08.940
what's let's We should be treating our first

01:03:08.940 --> 01:03:11.539
responders like fucking athletes. They should

01:03:11.539 --> 01:03:14.199
be getting massages in between calls and have

01:03:14.199 --> 01:03:18.800
all these modalities that are able to help them

01:03:18.800 --> 01:03:21.239
recover and sleep better and, you know, all these

01:03:21.239 --> 01:03:24.920
just things to boost performance. We're athletes

01:03:24.920 --> 01:03:28.159
as well. We need to be taking those things that

01:03:28.159 --> 01:03:31.079
every top athlete and every top team's doing

01:03:31.079 --> 01:03:34.559
and investing that in our people. You know what

01:03:34.559 --> 01:03:38.460
I mean? Like, they... They lost me as a, as a

01:03:38.460 --> 01:03:41.400
medic. And like, then you have to, you know,

01:03:41.420 --> 01:03:44.340
hire a new kid and invest for him for 10 years.

01:03:44.380 --> 01:03:46.599
So he gets to the knowledge I have just like,

01:03:46.619 --> 01:03:50.039
you know what I mean? It's, it's so common sense

01:03:50.039 --> 01:03:52.239
to me from this, you know, outside perspective

01:03:52.239 --> 01:03:56.059
that if we just, the mental health thing is,

01:03:56.099 --> 01:04:00.179
is so much more expensive on the back end than

01:04:00.179 --> 01:04:03.420
on the front end. Yeah. Well, as you said in

01:04:03.420 --> 01:04:05.119
your video, and I've said this many, many times,

01:04:05.159 --> 01:04:08.019
if the way we do it worked, there wouldn't be

01:04:08.019 --> 01:04:10.139
a Behind the Shield podcast because I wouldn't

01:04:10.139 --> 01:04:11.880
have been to funerals. Everyone would be thriving.

01:04:11.960 --> 01:04:14.780
I'd still be wearing the uniform. And my family

01:04:14.780 --> 01:04:17.059
would be amazing and I'd be home all the time.

01:04:17.199 --> 01:04:20.320
But that's not how it works. We're barely ever

01:04:20.320 --> 01:04:22.980
home. We're seeing divorces and cancers and suicides

01:04:22.980 --> 01:04:25.920
and overdoses and testosterone in the toilet

01:04:25.920 --> 01:04:28.480
and addiction and all the other things that we

01:04:28.480 --> 01:04:31.929
see because of the way that we've done it. When

01:04:31.929 --> 01:04:33.570
people say to me, oh, have you got data? I'm

01:04:33.570 --> 01:04:35.309
like, yeah, I've got a lot of data. Have you

01:04:35.309 --> 01:04:37.110
seen the absolute fucking shit show that is the

01:04:37.110 --> 01:04:39.289
fire service? There's your data. This is how

01:04:39.289 --> 01:04:42.090
not to do it. Now let's start unfucking it and

01:04:42.090 --> 01:04:44.070
actually making changes that will turn the ship

01:04:44.070 --> 01:04:49.389
around. Yeah. I mean, that's the hope here. Again,

01:04:50.170 --> 01:04:52.250
I keep repeating, we all got in this to help.

01:04:53.309 --> 01:04:56.730
Don't be blind. We wouldn't have these shit statistics

01:04:56.730 --> 01:05:00.090
we have if what we were doing was working. You

01:05:00.090 --> 01:05:02.480
know what I mean? And it's like, I'm not saying

01:05:02.480 --> 01:05:05.239
I have the answer. I could be wrong five years

01:05:05.239 --> 01:05:06.880
from now. Maybe there's something different.

01:05:07.000 --> 01:05:10.199
But from my point of view, from my own growth,

01:05:10.460 --> 01:05:13.079
it's it's this, you know, emotional side of things.

01:05:13.360 --> 01:05:16.840
It's this more gentle, softer side of things

01:05:16.840 --> 01:05:20.539
that is going to allow us to come out of this

01:05:20.539 --> 01:05:25.880
thing. And it's like. The more you can feel those

01:05:25.880 --> 01:05:29.480
depths, the greater strength you gain. You actually

01:05:29.480 --> 01:05:31.860
become stronger. That's what is so empowering

01:05:31.860 --> 01:05:36.159
about this thing. By getting in touch with my

01:05:36.159 --> 01:05:40.659
emotions, I'm able to raise a young man who isn't

01:05:40.659 --> 01:05:43.500
pretending to be tough with all this guarding

01:05:43.500 --> 01:05:45.360
and shielding when inside he's a hurt little

01:05:45.360 --> 01:05:48.860
boy. I know you do jiu -jitsu. I do jiu -jitsu.

01:05:51.079 --> 01:05:54.000
the most badass dude in the jujitsu gym is the

01:05:54.000 --> 01:05:57.139
biggest sweetheart. And like, there's a reason

01:05:57.139 --> 01:05:58.800
for that. You know what I mean? Cause he's not

01:05:58.800 --> 01:06:01.599
pretending he's confident in himself. And it's

01:06:01.599 --> 01:06:03.800
like, as firemen, that's what we need to be.

01:06:03.840 --> 01:06:06.380
We need to be fucking emotionally intelligent.

01:06:06.460 --> 01:06:10.739
So we're confident and capable to, to go to those

01:06:10.739 --> 01:06:13.159
depths with people. Because again, you signed

01:06:13.159 --> 01:06:15.619
up to do that. You signed up to go to the 911

01:06:15.619 --> 01:06:18.699
call. You know, we just, no one told me this

01:06:18.699 --> 01:06:22.869
shit when I started. Yeah. Well, I want to go

01:06:22.869 --> 01:06:24.969
to the solutions that you found and we'll get

01:06:24.969 --> 01:06:27.449
into TRE. Just before we do, you touched on,

01:06:27.489 --> 01:06:31.110
you know, suicide ideation. I think it's important

01:06:31.110 --> 01:06:33.889
to kind of just talk about this for a second.

01:06:33.909 --> 01:06:36.829
You know, when we were young, the suicide conversation

01:06:36.829 --> 01:06:39.210
was it was cowardly. It was selfish. How could

01:06:39.210 --> 01:06:42.010
you think of the family? And then, I mean, I've

01:06:42.010 --> 01:06:45.599
had over a thousand episodes now, arguably. More

01:06:45.599 --> 01:06:47.699
than half of those were at that point. Some of

01:06:47.699 --> 01:06:49.119
them even went through with their attempts and

01:06:49.119 --> 01:06:52.840
survived. And I started seeing this massive common

01:06:52.840 --> 01:06:56.920
denominator, which was after the combination

01:06:56.920 --> 01:06:59.760
of contributing factors that led someone to true

01:06:59.760 --> 01:07:03.820
suicide ideation. So sleep deprivation, unaddressed

01:07:03.820 --> 01:07:05.960
childhood trauma, you know, organizational betrayal,

01:07:06.139 --> 01:07:08.179
side effects of drugs, alcohol. I mean, all the

01:07:08.179 --> 01:07:12.500
things that we know contribute. their brain became

01:07:12.500 --> 01:07:16.460
miswired. Like it literally, their reality was

01:07:16.460 --> 01:07:20.440
distorted to the point where they felt like they

01:07:20.440 --> 01:07:22.539
were the reason for their family's pain. They

01:07:22.539 --> 01:07:24.760
felt like they were a burden. And if they just

01:07:24.760 --> 01:07:27.940
removed themselves from the equation, their family

01:07:27.940 --> 01:07:30.800
would be happy. Makes no sense to a healthy brain,

01:07:31.000 --> 01:07:34.239
makes perfect sense to them at that moment. When

01:07:34.239 --> 01:07:37.599
you reflect now, was that voice starting to talk

01:07:37.599 --> 01:07:41.360
to you in your ear and kind of, pour guilt and

01:07:41.360 --> 01:07:43.820
shame onto a person who was already drowning

01:07:43.820 --> 01:07:48.360
yeah no it's a that's a very important point

01:07:48.360 --> 01:07:51.559
it's i think a lot of suicide it's it's like

01:07:51.559 --> 01:07:55.260
it's it's not cowardice like you said it it comes

01:07:55.260 --> 01:07:59.840
from like shame and it's you just you get into

01:07:59.840 --> 01:08:02.320
this way where you do you think people would

01:08:02.320 --> 01:08:06.260
be better off without you and the whole you know

01:08:06.260 --> 01:08:08.980
your brain changes from these experiences and

01:08:08.980 --> 01:08:11.800
that was something that was so enlightening to

01:08:11.800 --> 01:08:14.940
me as i did my like i did neurofeedback and they

01:08:14.940 --> 01:08:18.060
did a brain scan and you know i'm if you've ever

01:08:18.060 --> 01:08:20.199
done neurofeedback they hook your head up to

01:08:20.199 --> 01:08:24.300
like a souped up ekg machine and just like you

01:08:24.300 --> 01:08:26.579
can see different heart rhythms you can see what

01:08:26.579 --> 01:08:29.300
your brain's doing based on those rhythms and

01:08:29.300 --> 01:08:32.310
i'm sitting there watching something on Netflix.

01:08:32.390 --> 01:08:35.689
And anytime my brain would get distracted, the

01:08:35.689 --> 01:08:39.930
screen would cover up with clouds. So from my

01:08:39.930 --> 01:08:42.550
experience, I'm sitting there and everything's

01:08:42.550 --> 01:08:45.569
fine. But then on the back end, when the doctor

01:08:45.569 --> 01:08:49.510
shows me the scan, my amygdala is firing like

01:08:49.510 --> 01:08:53.510
I'm in full flight or flight mode. And that's

01:08:53.510 --> 01:08:56.489
what happens to us. Our brains change to where

01:08:56.489 --> 01:09:02.600
like... being calm is a danger signal so we stay

01:09:02.600 --> 01:09:06.699
hyper vigilant and it's just understanding that

01:09:06.699 --> 01:09:09.979
ptsd isn't just some nonsense it's it's a physical

01:09:09.979 --> 01:09:13.880
change to the brain is is a huge thing and if

01:09:13.880 --> 01:09:15.939
you don't understand that there's no way in hell

01:09:15.939 --> 01:09:19.239
you're going to heal because you don't recognize

01:09:19.239 --> 01:09:22.840
that the same way your brain got like missed

01:09:22.840 --> 01:09:27.430
wired you can reverse that process through neuroplasticity

01:09:27.430 --> 01:09:30.609
through awareness um through different practices

01:09:30.609 --> 01:09:35.829
so um yeah lost my train of thought there no

01:09:35.829 --> 01:09:38.890
you rounded it off you did all right so you've

01:09:38.890 --> 01:09:40.689
gone down this journey you've found counselors

01:09:40.689 --> 01:09:42.989
you've done emdr you're talking about you know

01:09:42.989 --> 01:09:45.569
cold plunges and some other things as well how

01:09:45.569 --> 01:09:48.329
did you discover trauma release exercises and

01:09:48.329 --> 01:09:50.850
let's walk down your path as a student and ultimately

01:09:50.850 --> 01:09:54.380
a teacher So yeah, trauma release exercises,

01:09:54.699 --> 01:09:58.640
it also stands for trauma and tension. So that's

01:09:58.640 --> 01:10:01.039
something interesting because it's to do this

01:10:01.039 --> 01:10:03.260
type of work. It isn't that you have to have

01:10:03.260 --> 01:10:05.899
some trauma. We all are stressed the fuck out.

01:10:05.960 --> 01:10:08.399
Stress shows up in your body as tension, whether

01:10:08.399 --> 01:10:10.260
it's in your jaw, your shoulders, your hands,

01:10:10.359 --> 01:10:14.180
whatever. So it's just a way to relieve some

01:10:14.180 --> 01:10:18.359
tension. But it was out of desperation. You know,

01:10:18.399 --> 01:10:20.319
I'm on light duty. I'm doing what I'm prescribed

01:10:20.319 --> 01:10:22.180
to be doing. I'm taking the meds I'm supposed

01:10:22.180 --> 01:10:26.359
to be taking. I'm still not in a good way. And

01:10:26.359 --> 01:10:30.199
I just I don't know how found TRE on YouTube.

01:10:30.899 --> 01:10:34.220
And again, out of desperation, I'll give it a

01:10:34.220 --> 01:10:38.279
shot. What's the worst that can happen? And the

01:10:38.279 --> 01:10:40.579
science of the nervous system kind of made sense

01:10:40.579 --> 01:10:43.659
to me. It's just the experiences I've had, you

01:10:43.659 --> 01:10:45.479
know, running the calls and shit. It just it

01:10:45.479 --> 01:10:48.800
kind of was like, OK, it makes sense. We run

01:10:48.800 --> 01:10:52.779
these calls. We absorb that energy into our nervous

01:10:52.779 --> 01:10:55.220
system, however you want to call it. We tighten

01:10:55.220 --> 01:10:59.840
up. We don't process the shit. It stays stuck

01:10:59.840 --> 01:11:04.279
in the body, which tunes you up to be more sympathetic,

01:11:04.500 --> 01:11:08.060
which leads to burnout and PTSD, essentially.

01:11:09.199 --> 01:11:12.539
Found it on YouTube, seven simple exercises.

01:11:14.079 --> 01:11:16.699
did the exercises laid down in the shaking position

01:11:16.699 --> 01:11:21.199
and lo and behold, my body starts moving on its

01:11:21.199 --> 01:11:23.939
own. And at first I'm like, what in the hell

01:11:23.939 --> 01:11:28.239
is this? Am I doing this myself? You know, I

01:11:28.239 --> 01:11:30.220
had my wife watching me. I'm like, just make

01:11:30.220 --> 01:11:32.840
sure like nothing happens to me, you know, and

01:11:32.840 --> 01:11:35.680
it's such a safe process that even though your

01:11:35.680 --> 01:11:37.819
body's involuntarily shaking, you're able, you're

01:11:37.819 --> 01:11:41.239
totally fine. You, you can stop the process at

01:11:41.239 --> 01:11:44.579
any point and you're able to talk. you know while

01:11:44.579 --> 01:11:49.100
you're doing it so did it the first session uh

01:11:49.100 --> 01:11:52.140
the the shaking was like in my hips and it just

01:11:52.140 --> 01:11:55.659
kind of was there i was i didn't get a whole

01:11:55.659 --> 01:11:58.460
lot as far as healing out of that first session

01:11:58.460 --> 01:12:03.739
but what i did get was holy fucking shit there's

01:12:03.739 --> 01:12:07.840
stuff stuck in my body and i have never looked

01:12:07.840 --> 01:12:11.899
at this as a way to heal but it was just it clicked

01:12:12.760 --> 01:12:16.159
yes dude you got it's like we know like a pressure

01:12:16.159 --> 01:12:19.359
tank right it has a relief valve it's like i

01:12:19.359 --> 01:12:21.619
was about to have a blevy that's what a fucking

01:12:21.619 --> 01:12:25.460
ptsd is you've never hit that relief valve um

01:12:25.460 --> 01:12:28.800
and that relief valve it can be something like

01:12:28.800 --> 01:12:32.560
tre where your your body is able to physiologically

01:12:32.560 --> 01:12:35.899
release some stress um through movement essentially

01:12:35.899 --> 01:12:41.119
and that that began a journey of doing the the

01:12:41.710 --> 01:12:45.409
the TRE coupled with having a therapist who I

01:12:45.409 --> 01:12:47.350
would, you know, talk to about it. She was aware

01:12:47.350 --> 01:12:50.109
of it. So I would do my sessions. We'd unpack

01:12:50.109 --> 01:12:54.850
it. I was continuing to do the EMDR. I was getting

01:12:54.850 --> 01:12:57.909
my sleep right. My nutrition, you know, all these,

01:12:57.909 --> 01:13:01.770
all these very basic things that we've neglected.

01:13:01.850 --> 01:13:04.229
So like as a society, as a whole, that's why

01:13:04.229 --> 01:13:07.510
we're so damn sick. And the fire service, we

01:13:07.510 --> 01:13:10.550
do it on a whole nother level. Plus we add like,

01:13:10.880 --> 01:13:13.180
a bazillion extra scoops of stress just because

01:13:13.180 --> 01:13:18.399
of the job. So yeah, it, you know, led me to

01:13:18.399 --> 01:13:22.560
doing the process. And then about, I guess it's

01:13:22.560 --> 01:13:25.720
seven, eight months ago on your podcast, I heard

01:13:25.720 --> 01:13:29.300
a man named Rob Buscelli or I'm sorry, Rob Cifoli.

01:13:30.359 --> 01:13:33.500
And if anybody's heard that episode, Rob was

01:13:33.500 --> 01:13:37.430
a captain for 20 years with FDNY. He's the he

01:13:37.430 --> 01:13:39.729
was the director of health and wellness, I believe.

01:13:40.029 --> 01:13:44.069
He ran their probie schools. He has his own traumatic

01:13:44.069 --> 01:13:48.829
story. TRE, same as me, opened that door towards

01:13:48.829 --> 01:13:51.890
healing for him. And when I heard him on your

01:13:51.890 --> 01:13:53.850
podcast, I was like, you got it. You got to be

01:13:53.850 --> 01:13:56.689
kidding me. FDNY is hooked up with this thing

01:13:56.689 --> 01:13:58.970
because I was trying to bring it to my department

01:13:58.970 --> 01:14:02.390
five years ago. And even though I did it with

01:14:02.390 --> 01:14:04.550
a few guys on duty and they were all like, what

01:14:04.550 --> 01:14:07.689
the fuck was that? The department as a whole

01:14:07.689 --> 01:14:12.010
had no interest. So now I'm hooked up with Rob

01:14:12.010 --> 01:14:16.149
and his cadre. Fire Tribe is the name of the

01:14:16.149 --> 01:14:19.550
nonprofit. And we're essentially teaching TRE.

01:14:20.109 --> 01:14:24.109
Rob and his guys from FDNY got direct training

01:14:24.109 --> 01:14:26.750
with Dr. Purcelli, who's the inventor of the

01:14:26.750 --> 01:14:32.270
technique. And I've been practicing myself for

01:14:32.270 --> 01:14:35.090
some time. I've never... gotten training through

01:14:35.090 --> 01:14:38.050
tre but working with rob i'm getting trained

01:14:38.050 --> 01:14:42.130
up through them i saw felix manjares was on your

01:14:42.130 --> 01:14:45.409
your cadre as well he's another amazing fdmy

01:14:45.409 --> 01:14:48.270
wellness person yeah dude i met him for the first

01:14:48.270 --> 01:14:50.970
time on this trip out to colorado and just they're

01:14:50.970 --> 01:14:54.890
the whole team is it's just amazing i mean i

01:14:54.890 --> 01:14:57.869
feel like a scrub with these guys i'm just some

01:14:57.869 --> 01:15:01.420
dude from Florida, I barely ran fire, you know,

01:15:01.420 --> 01:15:03.640
because that's what the job is in this area.

01:15:04.140 --> 01:15:06.859
I was a damn good medic. You know, I could toot

01:15:06.859 --> 01:15:09.500
my horn on that. But, I mean, these guys are

01:15:09.500 --> 01:15:15.659
legends, honestly. And just to have their, you

01:15:15.659 --> 01:15:18.800
know, that oomph of FDNY and these guys with

01:15:18.800 --> 01:15:23.260
just the credentials they have, I'm really excited

01:15:23.260 --> 01:15:25.739
because that, for a lot of firemen, it's like

01:15:25.739 --> 01:15:28.100
you've got to get that buy -in first. you know

01:15:28.100 --> 01:15:32.239
we're asking you to to sit on this mat and shake

01:15:32.239 --> 01:15:34.680
in this weird way and you might tell us your

01:15:34.680 --> 01:15:38.479
feelings like you got to trust us first and and

01:15:38.479 --> 01:15:41.680
i think that tre has been a technique for a while

01:15:41.680 --> 01:15:43.359
that's been around and there's a lot of people

01:15:43.359 --> 01:15:47.140
trained in it and they have wanted to get into

01:15:47.140 --> 01:15:49.920
these fields but i don't think they had the in

01:15:49.920 --> 01:15:53.359
of a fireman speaking to another fireman which

01:15:53.359 --> 01:15:55.560
is what we got going on right now which is exciting

01:15:55.560 --> 01:15:59.149
because I mean, firemen have a certain language.

01:15:59.369 --> 01:16:01.229
First responders have a certain language. If

01:16:01.229 --> 01:16:03.390
you can't speak that language, we're not going

01:16:03.390 --> 01:16:07.729
to listen to you. But, you know, Felix, Adrian,

01:16:07.989 --> 01:16:11.470
Anthony, Rob and myself and everybody else, we're

01:16:11.470 --> 01:16:13.649
getting linked up in this thing. We were firemen,

01:16:13.649 --> 01:16:17.869
you know, so we speak the language we can. You

01:16:17.869 --> 01:16:20.489
can listen to Dr. Brasselli talk about neurogenic

01:16:20.489 --> 01:16:23.590
tremors and all these kind of things. Or I can

01:16:23.590 --> 01:16:25.430
just speak to you as a fireman and be like, look,

01:16:25.510 --> 01:16:27.850
did you got stress in your body? you can shake

01:16:27.850 --> 01:16:32.010
it out. And then as you shake it out, it might

01:16:32.010 --> 01:16:34.250
take the edge off to where you might be able

01:16:34.250 --> 01:16:36.149
to tell me what's actually underneath and what's

01:16:36.149 --> 01:16:39.369
bothering you. And then, okay, here we go. We're

01:16:39.369 --> 01:16:43.029
working. So for people listening, give an overview

01:16:43.029 --> 01:16:46.449
of what it is, what it does in layman's terms.

01:16:47.310 --> 01:16:50.170
All right. So the easiest way that I can describe

01:16:50.170 --> 01:16:53.529
it is like, if you've ever seen a dog shake during

01:16:53.529 --> 01:16:57.250
a storm, That shaking mechanism is something

01:16:57.250 --> 01:17:00.390
that humans have as well. It's a function of

01:17:00.390 --> 01:17:03.090
the nervous system as a way to dissipate energy.

01:17:03.750 --> 01:17:08.510
So along with Dr. Berselli, who's seen this phenomenon,

01:17:08.630 --> 01:17:11.289
there's another man named Peter Levine. He has

01:17:11.289 --> 01:17:14.590
a technique called somatic experiencing. And

01:17:14.590 --> 01:17:19.250
his way of describing it is he saw a lion chase

01:17:19.250 --> 01:17:22.729
a gazelle on the savannah. And once that gazelle

01:17:22.729 --> 01:17:26.770
got to safety. The gazelle shook like crazy for

01:17:26.770 --> 01:17:29.029
a few minutes, and then it goes about its way

01:17:29.029 --> 01:17:31.789
like nothing ever happened. I forget the other

01:17:31.789 --> 01:17:34.670
guy, maybe Robert Sapolsky, why zebras don't

01:17:34.670 --> 01:17:39.050
get ulcers. Same kind of thing. They're not perseverating

01:17:39.050 --> 01:17:43.649
about this experience and replaying it and restressing

01:17:43.649 --> 01:17:48.010
the body. They let it go. Essentially, you let

01:17:48.010 --> 01:17:54.829
it go. So TRE. through a series of exercises

01:17:54.829 --> 01:17:57.949
from the bottom up. So starting at your feet,

01:17:58.130 --> 01:18:00.569
going to your calves, going to your quads and

01:18:00.569 --> 01:18:03.649
hamstrings, your glutes, you essentially create

01:18:03.649 --> 01:18:07.350
a charge just much like doing a bicep curl after

01:18:07.350 --> 01:18:10.310
five or six, you start to feel that bicep getting

01:18:10.310 --> 01:18:14.770
a pump. That's the same feeling you get. And

01:18:14.770 --> 01:18:18.170
then you lay down in the shaking position where

01:18:18.170 --> 01:18:20.010
you're flat on your back, butt on the ground.

01:18:20.569 --> 01:18:25.369
feet flat and your knees up in the air and your

01:18:25.369 --> 01:18:29.050
body will start to release that story trauma.

01:18:29.329 --> 01:18:34.689
And as it comes out, it may be, you know, you

01:18:34.689 --> 01:18:39.149
may have flashbacks to a specific trauma. You

01:18:39.149 --> 01:18:41.930
may just, your body just shakes and you get up

01:18:41.930 --> 01:18:45.670
and you feel a little lighter. But the power

01:18:45.670 --> 01:18:49.680
of the technique is that As first responders,

01:18:49.779 --> 01:18:51.439
that thing we're talking about where you show

01:18:51.439 --> 01:18:53.319
up on scene, it's a dead kid, you got to work

01:18:53.319 --> 01:18:56.220
them, shut your emotions off, go robot mode,

01:18:56.520 --> 01:19:01.239
get the job done. That process disconnects you

01:19:01.239 --> 01:19:04.039
from yourself. You dissociate. A lot of us have

01:19:04.039 --> 01:19:05.739
had this experience where you're in that like

01:19:05.739 --> 01:19:08.720
third person kind of watching yourself do something.

01:19:10.199 --> 01:19:13.680
So TRE brings you back into your body to where

01:19:13.680 --> 01:19:17.840
you're able to. put one and one together and

01:19:17.840 --> 01:19:21.619
recognize, oh, that stress or that feeling I

01:19:21.619 --> 01:19:25.199
have in my chest is related to this call that

01:19:25.199 --> 01:19:29.600
I suppressed that I'm holding on to. And it allows

01:19:29.600 --> 01:19:33.600
you to start that process. When you're saying

01:19:33.600 --> 01:19:35.720
that, as far as the physical exertion of the

01:19:35.720 --> 01:19:38.479
stress, I've made this comparison when talking

01:19:38.479 --> 01:19:41.739
about dispatch. When we do get, let's say, a

01:19:41.739 --> 01:19:44.180
structure fire and you are throwing ladders,

01:19:44.180 --> 01:19:46.760
you're pulling hose, you're doing searches, that

01:19:46.760 --> 01:19:48.819
high level of stress, you do have a physical

01:19:48.819 --> 01:19:51.460
offload. You have a physical exertion. Now you're

01:19:51.460 --> 01:19:54.739
a dispatcher. You arrived before the sun came

01:19:54.739 --> 01:19:57.380
up. You're in a building with no windows. You're

01:19:57.380 --> 01:20:00.819
sitting in a chair and you're in California and

01:20:00.819 --> 01:20:03.399
someone's screaming as the fires come and burn

01:20:03.399 --> 01:20:06.239
them over. You have no way of offloading that

01:20:06.239 --> 01:20:10.109
at all. So TRE sounds like an amazing tool for

01:20:10.109 --> 01:20:12.850
the dispatch community too. Yeah. I mean, it's

01:20:12.850 --> 01:20:16.109
anybody who has stress, like my wife was a teacher,

01:20:16.310 --> 01:20:20.470
you know, the world right now is we're so stressed.

01:20:20.590 --> 01:20:23.250
So the techniques works for anyone. That's why

01:20:23.250 --> 01:20:25.630
I like to emphasize the tension part. Doesn't

01:20:25.630 --> 01:20:28.210
have to be, you want to do this big trauma thing.

01:20:29.569 --> 01:20:31.890
We all want to feel a little bit better in our

01:20:31.890 --> 01:20:34.989
body. So it's, it's for everybody. And when you.

01:20:35.579 --> 01:20:38.060
You saying that about dispatch is you're so spot

01:20:38.060 --> 01:20:40.239
on, dude. I, I don't know how the hell they do

01:20:40.239 --> 01:20:44.199
that. That it's, it's insane. And another one

01:20:44.199 --> 01:20:47.119
that comes up for me is at my old department,

01:20:47.159 --> 01:20:49.220
we have lifeguards and the lifeguards a lot of

01:20:49.220 --> 01:20:51.920
time are younger than the fire guys. So you got

01:20:51.920 --> 01:20:56.800
these like 18 year old children who go rescue

01:20:56.800 --> 01:20:59.399
somebody out in front of their tower and then

01:20:59.399 --> 01:21:02.800
go sit in that damn tower right after that traumatic

01:21:02.800 --> 01:21:06.109
experience to just soak in it. And it's like,

01:21:06.109 --> 01:21:10.369
it's, it's insane, but we just, we haven't as

01:21:10.369 --> 01:21:12.590
a, the culture is waking up to it. Like this

01:21:12.590 --> 01:21:15.189
idea of the body keeps the score, you know, this,

01:21:15.289 --> 01:21:17.189
this is the whole conversation we're having.

01:21:18.930 --> 01:21:23.310
We just, these, these services haven't even looked

01:21:23.310 --> 01:21:26.710
at it before and we're just starting to. But

01:21:26.710 --> 01:21:30.420
yeah, I mean. I feel for those people. And it's

01:21:30.420 --> 01:21:33.199
I mean, at least as a fireman, you're with your

01:21:33.199 --> 01:21:35.260
brothers and your sisters and you you're doing

01:21:35.260 --> 01:21:36.880
something. You know, I mean, I couldn't imagine

01:21:36.880 --> 01:21:40.319
being on the phone, like you said, like that.

01:21:40.560 --> 01:21:44.479
It's just terrible. Well, you mentioned about

01:21:44.479 --> 01:21:47.060
just coming back from Colorado, Frederick Firestone.

01:21:47.800 --> 01:21:50.319
Talk to me about what you saw. You've been through

01:21:50.319 --> 01:21:52.100
this journey. You've been doing your own kind

01:21:52.100 --> 01:21:55.460
of exploration with this, you know, the TRE specifically.

01:21:56.409 --> 01:21:59.189
What were some of the success stories that you

01:21:59.189 --> 01:22:01.229
witnessed now you're actually bringing it to

01:22:01.229 --> 01:22:04.590
a different side of the country? Yeah, I mean,

01:22:04.609 --> 01:22:07.630
what comes to mind is with this this last two

01:22:07.630 --> 01:22:11.229
day workshop we did in the workshop, we give

01:22:11.229 --> 01:22:15.090
four different sessions. So you you get to do

01:22:15.090 --> 01:22:17.729
the move, the shaking for about 20 minutes at

01:22:17.729 --> 01:22:20.850
four separate occasions over the two days. So

01:22:20.850 --> 01:22:25.229
we had a particular fellow who his first session.

01:22:25.940 --> 01:22:28.939
So after we do the session, everybody kind of

01:22:28.939 --> 01:22:31.479
goes around and shares their experience. Ninety

01:22:31.479 --> 01:22:33.399
nine percent of the people their first time go,

01:22:33.500 --> 01:22:35.819
that was weird. What the hell was that? That

01:22:35.819 --> 01:22:39.079
that's weird. You know, was I doing it? Just

01:22:39.079 --> 01:22:43.600
weird, weird, weird is what you get. And we come

01:22:43.600 --> 01:22:45.920
to this last guy, you know, probably the 16,

01:22:46.079 --> 01:22:49.319
17 person person to speak. And he goes, man,

01:22:49.420 --> 01:22:54.920
I got angry. And it's like, OK, you know. And

01:22:54.920 --> 01:22:58.739
that's this idea that whatever's under the surface,

01:22:58.920 --> 01:23:01.819
just like psychedelics or breath work or even

01:23:01.819 --> 01:23:04.880
an ice bath can do, when you kind of trigger

01:23:04.880 --> 01:23:07.880
the nervous system in this way, it's like you

01:23:07.880 --> 01:23:11.479
can, I describe it kind of like shaking up a

01:23:11.479 --> 01:23:13.859
snow globe, right? Snow globe. It's like all

01:23:13.859 --> 01:23:16.899
that stuff settled on the bottom and you can't

01:23:16.899 --> 01:23:19.399
see the pretty flowers. Well, when you shake

01:23:19.399 --> 01:23:21.920
that thing up, now all that stress and trauma

01:23:21.920 --> 01:23:24.180
is in the air and it can be released now. And

01:23:24.180 --> 01:23:26.060
then you see the pretty flowers, you know what

01:23:26.060 --> 01:23:30.199
I mean? So, again, I lost where I was going then.

01:23:31.180 --> 01:23:33.659
I'm talking about success stories. So the guy,

01:23:33.699 --> 01:23:36.020
his first session, he was angry. Yes, yes, yes,

01:23:36.100 --> 01:23:39.479
yes. So first session, anger. Second session,

01:23:39.659 --> 01:23:43.319
a little bit more. So we encourage him. We tell

01:23:43.319 --> 01:23:46.020
him, like, this is the process, man. Like, be

01:23:46.020 --> 01:23:49.800
open and curious. Something that I experienced

01:23:49.800 --> 01:23:52.460
and had to understand is, especially as men,

01:23:52.619 --> 01:23:55.819
we... anger is an acceptable emotion in our society

01:23:55.819 --> 01:23:58.720
as a man it's okay to be angry it's not okay

01:23:58.720 --> 01:24:01.239
to be scared or sad or helpless or all these

01:24:01.239 --> 01:24:05.239
things so i you know brought the idea to the

01:24:05.239 --> 01:24:07.619
guy like hey man just be curious what's underneath

01:24:07.619 --> 01:24:11.319
that anger you know i mean so he goes into his

01:24:11.319 --> 01:24:14.699
next couple sessions um so his second session

01:24:14.699 --> 01:24:20.500
less anger and more kind of sadness for Some

01:24:20.500 --> 01:24:23.439
of the traumas in his life, like marital type

01:24:23.439 --> 01:24:27.239
stuff and other things. And then by his fourth

01:24:27.239 --> 01:24:31.380
session, he's expressing gratitude. So that,

01:24:31.500 --> 01:24:35.439
I mean, it's hard to even believe, honestly,

01:24:35.520 --> 01:24:40.100
to see him go through that experience. And the

01:24:40.100 --> 01:24:42.420
second day after his fourth session, giving him

01:24:42.420 --> 01:24:45.039
a big hug, the guy's got, you know, just a spark

01:24:45.039 --> 01:24:51.220
back in his eyes. that's not to say that he's

01:24:51.220 --> 01:24:55.220
done this. Like when you do this work, it's fucking

01:24:55.220 --> 01:24:57.779
hard because you just opened and unpacked all

01:24:57.779 --> 01:25:00.199
this shit and you better be ready to get to work

01:25:00.199 --> 01:25:03.760
at it. So there's a huge piece about integration

01:25:03.760 --> 01:25:06.920
after this thing that we're still figuring out

01:25:06.920 --> 01:25:11.619
the best ways to do it. But I mean, that's a

01:25:11.619 --> 01:25:15.079
success story. It's amazing to see, honestly.

01:25:15.260 --> 01:25:19.180
And, you know, when he first started, When he

01:25:19.180 --> 01:25:21.500
walks in the room, much like many of us other

01:25:21.500 --> 01:25:24.439
firemen and women, everything's going good, high

01:25:24.439 --> 01:25:27.859
-fiving. The dude looks like he's fine, but you

01:25:27.859 --> 01:25:30.819
scratch the surface and we all have so much shit

01:25:30.819 --> 01:25:35.720
that's causing us to be more of an asshole than

01:25:35.720 --> 01:25:39.899
we would like to be. Doing this work is how you

01:25:39.899 --> 01:25:43.239
start that process. It's not the only way, but

01:25:43.239 --> 01:25:47.939
again, it's a way that... I think for the first

01:25:47.939 --> 01:25:53.039
responder community is special because it's a

01:25:53.039 --> 01:25:56.159
bottom up approach as opposed to a top down approach,

01:25:56.380 --> 01:26:00.939
like a more cognitive type therapy. And a lot

01:26:00.939 --> 01:26:04.500
of us are so charged up that it's hard to even

01:26:04.500 --> 01:26:08.140
access the words to express what the hell we

01:26:08.140 --> 01:26:11.619
went through. So TRE is like a way to hit that

01:26:11.619 --> 01:26:14.810
pressure relief valve. You know, you let off

01:26:14.810 --> 01:26:18.590
some of that steam. Maybe you the call you thought

01:26:18.590 --> 01:26:22.050
you were over comes back into your mind. And

01:26:22.050 --> 01:26:23.989
it's like, OK, there's a reason it came back

01:26:23.989 --> 01:26:27.649
because it's still stuck in your body. So now,

01:26:27.789 --> 01:26:31.569
you know, be so have some compassion for yourself.

01:26:32.750 --> 01:26:36.210
Have a process on the back end, journaling, having

01:26:36.210 --> 01:26:39.590
a therapist ready to talk to you, having a loved

01:26:39.590 --> 01:26:43.579
one who can listen, you know, and just. It's

01:26:43.579 --> 01:26:47.680
amazing. I hope that that guy is continuing to

01:26:47.680 --> 01:26:50.020
do better, you know what I mean? Because, again,

01:26:50.239 --> 01:26:53.260
the shit was already there. So he was already

01:26:53.260 --> 01:26:57.060
doing this heroic job as a fire medic with all

01:26:57.060 --> 01:27:00.560
this shit. So hopefully he can release some of

01:27:00.560 --> 01:27:03.760
it and continue to do that job at an even better

01:27:03.760 --> 01:27:06.939
level with less likely that he's going to get

01:27:06.939 --> 01:27:09.880
hurt or, you know, fuck something up because

01:27:09.880 --> 01:27:13.600
he's so jumbled up in his own head. That's so

01:27:13.600 --> 01:27:15.199
great to hear. And yeah, I mean, like you said,

01:27:15.239 --> 01:27:16.979
whether it's psychedelics, whether it's MDMA,

01:27:17.159 --> 01:27:20.880
whether it's TRE, I think this is the misconception

01:27:20.880 --> 01:27:23.020
is, oh, we found the magic bullet, the magic

01:27:23.020 --> 01:27:25.380
pill. It's like, no, you just opened the closet

01:27:25.380 --> 01:27:28.159
door. Now you've got to get someone to help sort

01:27:28.159 --> 01:27:30.800
through and throw away what's needed anymore

01:27:30.800 --> 01:27:33.579
and make sure that you keep and polish the things

01:27:33.579 --> 01:27:36.500
that are the beautiful memories. But yeah, I

01:27:36.500 --> 01:27:39.829
mean. There's this being an ongoing work in progress

01:27:39.829 --> 01:27:41.970
and then you have another life event happen and

01:27:41.970 --> 01:27:44.010
it sets you back again. That's okay. It's being

01:27:44.010 --> 01:27:46.550
a human being, but it's not going to be, you

01:27:46.550 --> 01:27:48.789
know, do TRE and now you're living a Disney life.

01:27:48.909 --> 01:27:51.069
That's never, never spent, you know, meant to

01:27:51.069 --> 01:27:53.729
be the message, but adding that tool to your

01:27:53.729 --> 01:27:56.750
toolbox as you work your way through. And I think

01:27:56.750 --> 01:27:59.869
this is what I've said a lot recently. What I

01:27:59.869 --> 01:28:02.189
love about these conversations is it puts hope

01:28:02.189 --> 01:28:06.979
into trauma. I truly believe that when you do

01:28:06.979 --> 01:28:09.920
the work, your trauma does become resilience

01:28:09.920 --> 01:28:13.779
or a strength, that gold glue on the Japanese

01:28:13.779 --> 01:28:18.640
bars. So if it's exciting to get to the new version

01:28:18.640 --> 01:28:21.579
of you, the 2 .0, which is different, as you

01:28:21.579 --> 01:28:23.060
said, because you've been a firefighter, you've

01:28:23.060 --> 01:28:25.060
been a cop, we're never going to be your 18 -year

01:28:25.060 --> 01:28:27.199
-old self, but I would argue you're going to

01:28:27.199 --> 01:28:29.720
be a better self. Now you're a beacon of light.

01:28:30.510 --> 01:28:32.989
you know, oozing compassion and empathy and you're

01:28:32.989 --> 01:28:35.170
strong because you've been through this journey,

01:28:35.350 --> 01:28:38.550
that is exciting. That isn't, well, I just live

01:28:38.550 --> 01:28:41.710
with my PTSD and, you know, very, very sad story.

01:28:41.810 --> 01:28:44.270
That is like, fuck, have you seen who they are

01:28:44.270 --> 01:28:47.529
now? That I think really is inspirational for

01:28:47.529 --> 01:28:50.050
us to actually dive into the work, be courageous

01:28:50.050 --> 01:28:54.050
and have that metamorphosis. Yeah, for sure.

01:28:54.149 --> 01:28:56.569
I mean, the shit you go through is what is the

01:28:56.569 --> 01:28:58.750
fertilizer for your growth, right? Like it's...

01:28:59.560 --> 01:29:02.279
And again, we kind of talked about the framing

01:29:02.279 --> 01:29:05.479
effect earlier. It's your choice, whether it's,

01:29:05.479 --> 01:29:09.579
you know, you're in that victim mindset or fuck,

01:29:09.720 --> 01:29:12.819
you know, this is an opportunity. This is a challenge.

01:29:12.939 --> 01:29:15.140
What do I need to learn? And that's, you know,

01:29:15.159 --> 01:29:18.420
that's the hero's journey. That's post -traumatic

01:29:18.420 --> 01:29:23.420
growth. And yeah, it's like to be on that other

01:29:23.420 --> 01:29:26.699
side, I'm by no means healed. I have anxiety

01:29:26.699 --> 01:29:30.189
out the ass all the time. But I have more tools

01:29:30.189 --> 01:29:33.510
to deal with it. And I have the ability to speak

01:29:33.510 --> 01:29:40.310
about it. And getting to do that, it's like it's

01:29:40.310 --> 01:29:43.470
just empowering. And I kind of talked about it

01:29:43.470 --> 01:29:47.029
a little bit with the old or the route I was

01:29:47.029 --> 01:29:51.689
given through workers comp is it puts you in

01:29:51.689 --> 01:29:56.149
a victim mindset, because when you get told you're

01:29:56.149 --> 01:29:58.850
you have anxiety, you have depression. You have

01:29:58.850 --> 01:30:01.569
sleep things, blah, blah, blah. Here's the solution,

01:30:01.770 --> 01:30:04.689
a pill that comes from outside of yourself that

01:30:04.689 --> 01:30:09.109
now you're relying on. That takes your power

01:30:09.109 --> 01:30:13.949
away. And the shit that I advocate is this shit

01:30:13.949 --> 01:30:17.489
is hard. This inner work shit is hard. Fire him

01:30:17.489 --> 01:30:20.949
in the fuck up. Here are a bunch of tools, TRE,

01:30:21.090 --> 01:30:25.329
breathwork, journaling, nature, whatever it is,

01:30:25.369 --> 01:30:29.640
psychedelics. talk therapy, EMDR, neurofeedback,

01:30:29.720 --> 01:30:34.579
whatever it is, it's on you to, to figure out

01:30:34.579 --> 01:30:37.239
what works and get to work. You know what I mean?

01:30:37.260 --> 01:30:39.800
It's not, there is, there's like a spiritual

01:30:39.800 --> 01:30:43.220
saying that there's many ways up the mountain,

01:30:43.239 --> 01:30:45.000
but there's, you know, there's one mountaintop,

01:30:45.000 --> 01:30:47.220
right? Like that's the same thing with healing.

01:30:47.300 --> 01:30:50.439
There's many modalities that can bring you healing,

01:30:50.579 --> 01:30:54.979
which is ultimately better understanding yourself

01:30:54.979 --> 01:30:59.680
doing that inner work um so i don't care what

01:30:59.680 --> 01:31:02.359
you do i don't care if you think tre is nonsense

01:31:02.359 --> 01:31:06.319
um if you think it's nonsense then tell me what

01:31:06.319 --> 01:31:08.279
you're doing that works because i would like

01:31:08.279 --> 01:31:12.640
to try it and that that route is so fucking empowering

01:31:12.640 --> 01:31:15.579
dude because as i started to find the things

01:31:15.579 --> 01:31:18.340
that worked for me like tai chi was one of them

01:31:18.340 --> 01:31:23.159
at first it's like what is this weird thing Why

01:31:23.159 --> 01:31:26.239
am I being drawn to this? Why do after I do this

01:31:26.239 --> 01:31:29.319
at five in the morning on the beach prior to

01:31:29.319 --> 01:31:32.060
shift those days, I'm actually able to get the

01:31:32.060 --> 01:31:34.619
keys and be cool, calm and collected. So what

01:31:34.619 --> 01:31:36.880
the you know, this looks weird. I look like a

01:31:36.880 --> 01:31:39.399
weirder on the beach, but it's working for me.

01:31:40.100 --> 01:31:42.300
You know, so I encourage people. I always tell

01:31:42.300 --> 01:31:46.399
them it's like you have to have a top three for

01:31:46.399 --> 01:31:48.579
your stress management. What are your you're

01:31:48.579 --> 01:31:50.779
going to have a shit day. The kids are going

01:31:50.779 --> 01:31:54.069
to be too much. the wife, the job, whatever,

01:31:54.390 --> 01:31:57.409
the mandatory, this and that. What are your top

01:31:57.409 --> 01:32:01.069
three things that help you get back to that baseline

01:32:01.069 --> 01:32:03.970
so that you can fill your cup so that you can

01:32:03.970 --> 01:32:07.890
then take care of others? And I guarantee most

01:32:07.890 --> 01:32:10.770
people in the service, they would not have an

01:32:10.770 --> 01:32:13.310
answer for that question. You know, I mean, it

01:32:13.310 --> 01:32:15.149
would probably be something like they'd laugh

01:32:15.149 --> 01:32:19.000
about it and say, oh, go get fucked up. Or, you

01:32:19.000 --> 01:32:21.560
know, do one of these strategies that we've done.

01:32:21.640 --> 01:32:24.880
Go drive too fast or go beat the shit out of

01:32:24.880 --> 01:32:27.779
somebody at a bar or something that's, you know,

01:32:27.779 --> 01:32:32.979
a negative coping mechanism. Absolutely. Well,

01:32:33.039 --> 01:32:37.439
talk to me about conscious movements. So conscious

01:32:37.439 --> 01:32:41.899
movements is, I mean, it organically grew out

01:32:41.899 --> 01:32:47.180
of me finding my own healing path. And it then

01:32:47.180 --> 01:32:52.100
lined up perfectly with TRE because TRE is essentially

01:32:52.100 --> 01:32:55.420
bringing awareness and consciousness back to

01:32:55.420 --> 01:32:58.739
the body through movement. But you can do that

01:32:58.739 --> 01:33:01.899
through many modalities. Again, the magic sauce

01:33:01.899 --> 01:33:05.680
is attention. And meditation taught me that,

01:33:05.720 --> 01:33:08.680
that where you place your attention is where

01:33:08.680 --> 01:33:10.659
you place your power. What you put your attention

01:33:10.659 --> 01:33:15.760
on is what's going to grow. conscious movements

01:33:15.760 --> 01:33:19.720
is learning to use your awareness to tune into

01:33:19.720 --> 01:33:22.920
your body to recognize what your body's communicating

01:33:22.920 --> 01:33:26.539
to you right so like i said at one point stress

01:33:26.539 --> 01:33:29.899
shows up in the body as tension until you bring

01:33:29.899 --> 01:33:33.199
awareness to that tension you're unable to unwind

01:33:33.199 --> 01:33:37.539
it right um so i tell i love this story it's

01:33:37.539 --> 01:33:39.819
so it's so simple and but it's it's funny it

01:33:39.819 --> 01:33:42.699
was so funny when it happened to me so I'm on

01:33:42.699 --> 01:33:44.560
this idea of conscious movements, attention,

01:33:44.979 --> 01:33:50.119
awareness, all these things, Tai Chi. And one

01:33:50.119 --> 01:33:52.880
day I just realized when I was brushing my teeth,

01:33:53.000 --> 01:33:55.840
it's like I have a death grip on the toothbrush.

01:33:56.260 --> 01:33:59.060
And it just occurred to me, dude, like, soften

01:33:59.060 --> 01:34:03.579
up. Why are you so tense? But I was unaware of

01:34:03.579 --> 01:34:07.199
that, right? And that's what happens with stress

01:34:07.199 --> 01:34:13.170
is we internalize this tension. And we lose the

01:34:13.170 --> 01:34:17.210
sensitivity. And we don't even know that we're

01:34:17.210 --> 01:34:20.470
breathing in a pattern that's stressful, that's

01:34:20.470 --> 01:34:23.270
leading the body to further stress, which was

01:34:23.270 --> 01:34:26.810
an epiphany for me with my panic attacks. No

01:34:26.810 --> 01:34:29.550
one told me when I started working with the therapist

01:34:29.550 --> 01:34:33.069
that, hey, dude, a mouth breath up in your chest

01:34:33.069 --> 01:34:36.329
is a stress response. You know what I mean? You're

01:34:36.329 --> 01:34:39.720
signaling to your body. Dump cortisol, dump adrenaline,

01:34:39.920 --> 01:34:43.979
get us fucking going. We're in danger. So if

01:34:43.979 --> 01:34:47.079
you are breathing in that pattern all day, no

01:34:47.079 --> 01:34:50.079
shit, you're going to have a panic attack. And

01:34:50.079 --> 01:34:53.020
until you shift your breathing, which unless

01:34:53.020 --> 01:34:55.500
you have awareness of it, you have no opportunity

01:34:55.500 --> 01:34:59.119
to shift it, the body is going to do what you're

01:34:59.119 --> 01:35:03.699
asking it to do. So conscious movements is using

01:35:03.699 --> 01:35:07.609
movement to become more aware of your body. And

01:35:07.609 --> 01:35:10.770
then through understanding how the autonomic

01:35:10.770 --> 01:35:15.550
nervous system functions, you can start to recognize

01:35:15.550 --> 01:35:18.329
what state you're in, whether you're in a stress

01:35:18.329 --> 01:35:24.229
state or a relaxed state. So an easy one, like

01:35:24.229 --> 01:35:27.189
I said, the breath. So if you if you if I ask

01:35:27.189 --> 01:35:29.029
everybody listening to take a deep breath right

01:35:29.029 --> 01:35:31.569
now, if you don't breathe into your belly and

01:35:31.569 --> 01:35:33.630
through your nose and if you're breathing up

01:35:33.630 --> 01:35:35.529
in your chest through your mouth high and tight.

01:35:36.160 --> 01:35:38.399
you're in a stress state. When you're in that

01:35:38.399 --> 01:35:40.640
stress state, your brain is functioning in a

01:35:40.640 --> 01:35:43.520
different way to where you're more animal -like.

01:35:43.659 --> 01:35:48.319
You're more reactive and you're less able to

01:35:48.319 --> 01:35:51.199
use the higher cognitive functions of your brain.

01:35:51.859 --> 01:35:56.359
So as a fireman, if you're going to a rock and

01:35:56.359 --> 01:35:59.039
fire and on the way to the call, you're in the

01:35:59.039 --> 01:36:03.409
back of the rig going... When you get off that

01:36:03.409 --> 01:36:05.970
rig, you're going to be less aware, right? We

01:36:05.970 --> 01:36:10.069
talk about situational awareness. So this work

01:36:10.069 --> 01:36:13.170
of understanding the breath, being aware of your

01:36:13.170 --> 01:36:18.090
body, being able to use your breath to toggle

01:36:18.090 --> 01:36:22.029
the nervous system, essentially, will help you

01:36:22.029 --> 01:36:26.590
to recognize that relaxed parasympathetic state

01:36:26.590 --> 01:36:29.289
in your body and you get better at grounding

01:36:29.289 --> 01:36:33.640
that feeling. And it also help you when you're

01:36:33.640 --> 01:36:35.539
going to the call and you see yourself revving

01:36:35.539 --> 01:36:38.680
up and you're able to use, you know, maybe you

01:36:38.680 --> 01:36:41.140
you relieve some of that tension through like

01:36:41.140 --> 01:36:44.000
shaking your shoulders or doing a fire breath

01:36:44.000 --> 01:36:47.359
from yoga or whatever it is. Essentially, you're

01:36:47.359 --> 01:36:49.260
using something to downregulate that nervous

01:36:49.260 --> 01:36:52.239
system. And that's that's going to make you more

01:36:52.239 --> 01:36:56.119
effective at whatever it is you're doing. So

01:36:56.119 --> 01:36:58.279
conscious movements, are you coaching now under

01:36:58.279 --> 01:37:02.159
that banner? Yeah, so that, like I said, grew

01:37:02.159 --> 01:37:06.300
out organically. That's my business now. I train

01:37:06.300 --> 01:37:10.140
people. First off, I created a conscious movements

01:37:10.140 --> 01:37:14.680
class, which all this stuff I'm talking about,

01:37:14.840 --> 01:37:18.859
I try to give the people the experience of that

01:37:18.859 --> 01:37:21.840
through movement. So we start off nice and slow,

01:37:22.100 --> 01:37:24.939
the Tai Chi, kind of gentle movement, awareness.

01:37:25.560 --> 01:37:28.659
And then we get into more like... Jiu -jitsu

01:37:28.659 --> 01:37:33.000
style, like gymnastica natural, animal flow,

01:37:33.180 --> 01:37:37.260
these type of kind of a more intense yoga. And

01:37:37.260 --> 01:37:39.760
what I'm trying to do there is get people's heart

01:37:39.760 --> 01:37:43.220
rates high, right? And then the last portion

01:37:43.220 --> 01:37:46.659
of the class, I have people do like high intensity

01:37:46.659 --> 01:37:49.939
stuff to really jack that heart rate up. Then

01:37:49.939 --> 01:37:53.520
we immediately drop into a meditation where I

01:37:53.520 --> 01:37:56.760
walk people through the awareness of their breath.

01:37:57.229 --> 01:38:00.689
and how they can shift their breathing to regulate

01:38:00.689 --> 01:38:04.310
their nervous system. So hopefully through the

01:38:04.310 --> 01:38:09.369
class, you're able to, one, recognize what are

01:38:09.369 --> 01:38:12.430
the signatures of stress in your own body. For

01:38:12.430 --> 01:38:16.930
me, tight chest, tight jaw, like that's my body

01:38:16.930 --> 01:38:18.949
in a stress state. For you, it might be your

01:38:18.949 --> 01:38:22.489
stomach rumbling. It might be your mind racing.

01:38:22.590 --> 01:38:25.729
It might be your breathing that you notice. Whatever

01:38:25.729 --> 01:38:28.789
it is, the more in tune you get with that the

01:38:28.789 --> 01:38:32.369
better you are able to manage your body right

01:38:32.369 --> 01:38:36.130
um so that's that's the idea through the movement

01:38:36.130 --> 01:38:41.550
um so i was teaching that class as a as a regular

01:38:41.550 --> 01:38:44.510
thing at my jiu jitsu gym for about two years

01:38:44.510 --> 01:38:48.630
um and i got good at it and i really enjoyed

01:38:48.630 --> 01:38:51.789
it but then it started to lose a little bit of

01:38:51.789 --> 01:38:55.640
its luster for me because it kind of became just

01:38:55.640 --> 01:39:00.180
like a workout class for people. So when I teach

01:39:00.180 --> 01:39:03.000
that now, I try to do it more as like a seminar

01:39:03.000 --> 01:39:07.479
thing where I share my story because it's a tool,

01:39:07.500 --> 01:39:11.279
right? And the tool is self -regulation. And

01:39:11.279 --> 01:39:14.800
there's a science to that. And there's ways that

01:39:14.800 --> 01:39:18.340
you can get better at self -regulating. So I

01:39:18.340 --> 01:39:20.539
don't teach the class on a regular anymore. I

01:39:20.539 --> 01:39:23.520
do it when I have an opportunity. to present

01:39:23.520 --> 01:39:29.640
in a different forum but in addition to doing

01:39:29.640 --> 01:39:32.819
the stuff with the fire tribe guys my main work

01:39:32.819 --> 01:39:36.680
right now is i work as a health coach under my

01:39:36.680 --> 01:39:39.619
conscious new movement business uh for a group

01:39:39.619 --> 01:39:44.880
home so for uh foster boys so it's been amazing

01:39:44.880 --> 01:39:47.039
honestly because everything i talk about all

01:39:47.039 --> 01:39:49.859
this trauma and all these these skills that i've

01:39:50.220 --> 01:39:53.899
used to to you know get my life back i get to

01:39:53.899 --> 01:39:56.579
now teach to these young men who are 13 to 18

01:39:56.579 --> 01:39:59.899
who have been through worse shit than i've been

01:39:59.899 --> 01:40:06.260
through um and um our our our um our group home

01:40:06.260 --> 01:40:09.380
is called healthy group home project and we really

01:40:09.380 --> 01:40:12.460
try to impart all this stuff that i'm trying

01:40:12.460 --> 01:40:14.560
to teach to the fire service good sleep hygiene

01:40:14.560 --> 01:40:18.779
good diet you know exercise You know, some type

01:40:18.779 --> 01:40:22.500
of inner work practice, you know, sauna, steam

01:40:22.500 --> 01:40:26.619
room, TRE, all the things. So getting to work

01:40:26.619 --> 01:40:28.479
with these young men has been amazing, honestly.

01:40:28.880 --> 01:40:31.180
I mean, that's what I get to do on a regular

01:40:31.180 --> 01:40:35.239
basis, train with these boys and try to help

01:40:35.239 --> 01:40:39.460
them become men. Rob said this the other day,

01:40:39.500 --> 01:40:41.119
and I'm going to steal it from him. So I'm giving

01:40:41.119 --> 01:40:43.699
you credit, Rob. We were just talking about this.

01:40:45.980 --> 01:40:49.239
we've had this narrative of like man up, but

01:40:49.239 --> 01:40:53.079
really you should not be telling a young man

01:40:53.079 --> 01:40:55.119
or a young woman to man up. You should be teaching

01:40:55.119 --> 01:40:58.279
them how to be a man. And that's this shift that's

01:40:58.279 --> 01:41:02.420
kind of going on. I've always loved that phrase.

01:41:02.819 --> 01:41:06.060
Don't say what's wrong with you. Ask what happened

01:41:06.060 --> 01:41:08.560
to you. And if you think about a group of children

01:41:08.560 --> 01:41:13.060
in foster homes, just the simple element of why

01:41:13.060 --> 01:41:16.229
wasn't I good enough? can be crushing to a young

01:41:16.229 --> 01:41:18.369
person. And we hear it all the time when people

01:41:18.369 --> 01:41:21.409
are older in this profession. So I think this

01:41:21.409 --> 01:41:23.689
mentorship is so important. We have this multi

01:41:23.689 --> 01:41:25.369
-generational trauma thing going on. That was

01:41:25.369 --> 01:41:27.369
one of the big themes of my last book. There's

01:41:27.369 --> 01:41:29.310
a whole multi -generational trauma backstory

01:41:29.310 --> 01:41:32.970
to it. If you understand the origin story and

01:41:32.970 --> 01:41:35.489
then, you know. through generations you can stop

01:41:35.489 --> 01:41:37.989
those dominoes from falling so i love what you're

01:41:37.989 --> 01:41:40.130
doing with the foster homes is there's a beautiful

01:41:40.130 --> 01:41:43.930
opportunity whatever the generational pain got

01:41:43.930 --> 01:41:46.789
them to where they are that they can heal themselves

01:41:46.789 --> 01:41:49.270
and and then their children hopefully will be

01:41:49.270 --> 01:41:52.289
on a completely different trajectory yeah the

01:41:52.289 --> 01:41:54.989
uh the analogy i always give these kids because

01:41:54.989 --> 01:41:58.270
it is it is tough you know it's hard to find

01:41:58.270 --> 01:42:01.539
the silver lining and you know, look at your

01:42:01.539 --> 01:42:04.899
shitty life as an opportunity. But I always tell

01:42:04.899 --> 01:42:06.739
them like, look, dudes, when you guys play video

01:42:06.739 --> 01:42:09.260
games, you don't choose the easy levels, right?

01:42:09.359 --> 01:42:12.439
Like you put it on hard because that's where

01:42:12.439 --> 01:42:14.460
the better prizes are. That's where the, you

01:42:14.460 --> 01:42:16.460
know, the cooler gear and the better moves and

01:42:16.460 --> 01:42:19.279
all the shit is on that hard level. So like,

01:42:19.279 --> 01:42:24.000
be it what it is, your karma, whatever you want

01:42:24.000 --> 01:42:28.340
to call it, you ended up in this life. You know,

01:42:28.399 --> 01:42:30.760
it's an opportunity. I'm playing on hard mode,

01:42:30.899 --> 01:42:32.560
you know, but that's going to give me better

01:42:32.560 --> 01:42:36.319
skills. So it's, again, it's a big part of it

01:42:36.319 --> 01:42:39.359
is that framing and how you choose to look at

01:42:39.359 --> 01:42:43.439
your reality. 100%. Well, I'd love to throw some

01:42:43.439 --> 01:42:45.619
quick closing questions at you before I let you

01:42:45.619 --> 01:42:49.859
go. Let's do it, man. All right. The first one

01:42:49.859 --> 01:42:51.840
I'd love to ask, is there a book or are there

01:42:51.840 --> 01:42:54.619
books that you love to recommend? It can be related

01:42:54.619 --> 01:42:56.920
to our discussion today or completely unrelated.

01:42:58.299 --> 01:43:04.220
Yeah, so I'll give the two books that, I guess

01:43:04.220 --> 01:43:06.579
three books that absolutely changed my life.

01:43:06.720 --> 01:43:09.399
They allowed me to, everything we were talking

01:43:09.399 --> 01:43:11.899
about today, it gave me the framework to start

01:43:11.899 --> 01:43:14.699
to understand this shit so that I could heal.

01:43:15.020 --> 01:43:17.420
So the first one is The Body Keeps the Score,

01:43:17.619 --> 01:43:20.100
which most people know about. Bessel van der

01:43:20.100 --> 01:43:25.859
Kolk is his name. And it's that idea right there.

01:43:28.139 --> 01:43:32.159
completely gave me the like understanding of

01:43:32.159 --> 01:43:36.319
why TRE was so powerful. It made sense. Okay.

01:43:36.399 --> 01:43:40.319
Yeah. This, my body has held this stress because

01:43:40.319 --> 01:43:44.279
every time I did the heroic thing and shut my

01:43:44.279 --> 01:43:48.020
emotions off, that energy had to go somewhere.

01:43:48.159 --> 01:43:51.880
And if you don't release it, which is what crying

01:43:51.880 --> 01:43:55.020
is, right. It's like literally coming out of

01:43:55.020 --> 01:43:57.539
your body. If you don't release that, it stays

01:43:57.539 --> 01:43:59.859
stuck in the body. The body keeps the score.

01:44:00.640 --> 01:44:05.859
So that one is a must read for anybody interested

01:44:05.859 --> 01:44:09.260
in this work. The second one is Peter Levine,

01:44:09.460 --> 01:44:12.699
Waking the Tiger. And I kind of shared about

01:44:12.699 --> 01:44:15.159
that, the story of the gazelle and the lion.

01:44:16.279 --> 01:44:20.479
So he talks about that. He talks about a very

01:44:20.479 --> 01:44:25.369
powerful concept called titration. which as paramedics,

01:44:25.369 --> 01:44:27.510
you know what it is to titrate a drug, right?

01:44:27.869 --> 01:44:32.829
So with trauma, sometimes going back into that

01:44:32.829 --> 01:44:35.770
situation, you know, trying to process it can

01:44:35.770 --> 01:44:38.670
be too much and can be over traumatizing or re

01:44:38.670 --> 01:44:44.029
-traumatizing. So when we do TRE, it's helpful

01:44:44.029 --> 01:44:48.170
to ground yourself in a positive emotion. So

01:44:48.170 --> 01:44:51.979
when that tough situation comes up, It's like

01:44:51.979 --> 01:44:54.220
we want to titrate that effect. We want to touch

01:44:54.220 --> 01:44:58.180
into that trauma and then come back to our groundedness

01:44:58.180 --> 01:45:01.319
and our resilience so that you can change the

01:45:01.319 --> 01:45:06.479
narrative of that trauma in a way. So his his

01:45:06.479 --> 01:45:11.039
work is phenomenal. He also has a an autobiography

01:45:11.039 --> 01:45:13.819
called An Autobiography of Trauma, I believe.

01:45:14.140 --> 01:45:19.359
Again, Peter Levine. And then the book that gave

01:45:19.359 --> 01:45:22.840
me the. Scientific Underpinnings of Understanding

01:45:22.840 --> 01:45:29.439
Stress is called The Stress of Life by Hans Seyle,

01:45:29.539 --> 01:45:33.079
I believe it is, S -E -Y -L -E or something like

01:45:33.079 --> 01:45:36.760
that. But he was essentially the pioneer of understanding

01:45:36.760 --> 01:45:40.340
stress. He's the guy that came up with the concept

01:45:40.340 --> 01:45:45.439
of eustress and distress, the concept of cumulative

01:45:45.439 --> 01:45:50.800
stress. So those books. Without those books,

01:45:50.880 --> 01:45:53.960
I wouldn't have had the awareness to recognize

01:45:53.960 --> 01:45:56.619
there was other ways of healing. I would have

01:45:56.619 --> 01:46:00.800
just submitted to the professionals, right? Because

01:46:00.800 --> 01:46:05.979
why else? My brain is broken right now. You're

01:46:05.979 --> 01:46:08.739
the professional. Like, why wouldn't I listen

01:46:08.739 --> 01:46:12.600
to you? But just happenstance, you know, good

01:46:12.600 --> 01:46:16.060
luck, whatever it is. my life journey. It's just,

01:46:16.079 --> 01:46:19.260
I was aware enough to look into those other resources

01:46:19.260 --> 01:46:23.760
and, and the beautiful, like combine, you know,

01:46:23.760 --> 01:46:26.399
bridging the gap of these two things again, just

01:46:26.399 --> 01:46:28.579
like we got to be bad asses, but we also got

01:46:28.579 --> 01:46:32.279
to do the emotional work. We got to get this

01:46:32.279 --> 01:46:34.460
stress out of our bodies, but we also got to

01:46:34.460 --> 01:46:36.640
bridge it with the Western medicine, right? Like

01:46:36.640 --> 01:46:41.300
when I'm in crisis mode. and my doctor puts me

01:46:41.300 --> 01:46:45.039
on some pills to help me calm down, that is helpful,

01:46:45.220 --> 01:46:50.199
yes, as a bridge to then get me more skills to

01:46:50.199 --> 01:46:53.539
empower me with a long -term goal of, look, dude,

01:46:53.640 --> 01:46:55.680
we're going to do this. In a couple months, we're

01:46:55.680 --> 01:46:57.920
going to taper you down. In a couple months from

01:46:57.920 --> 01:47:00.279
then, you're going to be off the meds as you're

01:47:00.279 --> 01:47:02.960
building this resilience through skills. You

01:47:02.960 --> 01:47:04.979
know what I mean? That's what we need to do.

01:47:06.000 --> 01:47:08.319
We don't need to go all woo -woo and just say

01:47:08.319 --> 01:47:11.399
blast everybody with psychedelics or just simply

01:47:11.399 --> 01:47:14.140
do breath work and you'll be fine. We need to

01:47:14.140 --> 01:47:19.680
use everything and bridge the gap, you know what

01:47:19.680 --> 01:47:25.739
I mean? Because we do have a materialistic component

01:47:25.739 --> 01:47:30.060
to ourselves where it's very, you know, neurotransmitters

01:47:30.060 --> 01:47:32.800
and chemicals and this and that. But there is

01:47:32.800 --> 01:47:34.960
this more ephemeral side to healing, which is

01:47:34.960 --> 01:47:37.920
a spiritual journey. And that's hard to even

01:47:37.920 --> 01:47:43.539
talk about, but it's part of it, right? Absolutely.

01:47:43.859 --> 01:47:45.960
Well, we talked about books. What about films

01:47:45.960 --> 01:47:52.460
and documentaries? So this is interesting. I

01:47:52.460 --> 01:47:54.399
haven't thought about this movie in a long time,

01:47:54.520 --> 01:47:58.119
but the thought that comes up is a movie called

01:47:58.119 --> 01:48:02.220
A Bronx Tale. And it's I mean, it's one of my

01:48:02.220 --> 01:48:04.760
favorite movies, just being an Italian kid and,

01:48:04.800 --> 01:48:07.579
you know, liking the mafia stuff and all that

01:48:07.579 --> 01:48:10.399
kind of thing. It's a movie like that, but it

01:48:10.399 --> 01:48:16.180
has so much heart because. The main line of the

01:48:16.180 --> 01:48:20.020
of the movie is the worst thing is in life is

01:48:20.020 --> 01:48:25.399
wasted talent. And that's kind of a theme that's

01:48:25.399 --> 01:48:28.699
run through my life is. you know, I don't want

01:48:28.699 --> 01:48:30.739
to waste my talent. Yeah. I've been through some

01:48:30.739 --> 01:48:33.739
shit as a kid, as a, you know, as a fireman and

01:48:33.739 --> 01:48:36.439
all that, but I'm not going to waste my talent

01:48:36.439 --> 01:48:39.220
and let that take me out. I'm going to, you know,

01:48:39.220 --> 01:48:42.340
alchemize that pain, transmute it into something

01:48:42.340 --> 01:48:45.340
and bring it back to the people I care about.

01:48:45.500 --> 01:48:50.000
So, and it's just a cool old school, you know,

01:48:50.000 --> 01:48:54.140
New York Bronx, they fight the bikers. Like it's,

01:48:54.140 --> 01:48:58.039
it's one of my favorite movies. Brilliant. Well,

01:48:58.159 --> 01:49:00.840
speaking of awesome people, is there a person

01:49:00.840 --> 01:49:02.939
that you'd recommend to come on this podcast

01:49:02.939 --> 01:49:05.560
as a guest to speak to the first responders,

01:49:05.800 --> 01:49:07.880
military and associated professions of the world?

01:49:10.359 --> 01:49:13.600
I guess the first person that comes to mind is

01:49:13.600 --> 01:49:18.180
a man named Paul Cech. He's like a world renowned

01:49:18.180 --> 01:49:22.840
holistic kind of trainer guy, but I mean, as

01:49:22.840 --> 01:49:26.210
deep as it gets. I've gone through some of his

01:49:26.210 --> 01:49:29.010
holistic lifestyle coaching, which just it gives

01:49:29.010 --> 01:49:31.630
you such a strong foundation of understanding.

01:49:32.409 --> 01:49:34.670
You know, if you don't have the building blocks

01:49:34.670 --> 01:49:37.550
of health, like you're never going to have good

01:49:37.550 --> 01:49:39.689
mental health if you're eating shit and you're

01:49:39.689 --> 01:49:42.569
not sleeping and you're eating processed garbage.

01:49:42.609 --> 01:49:46.750
And, you know, he he the guy's a genius, man.

01:49:46.829 --> 01:49:49.729
Like I anything by Paul Cech I would look into.

01:49:52.170 --> 01:49:55.069
And I hope one day to get to sit down with the

01:49:55.069 --> 01:49:58.489
guys. So maybe we'll make it all happen. But

01:49:58.489 --> 01:50:00.489
yeah, he's the first guy that comes to mind for

01:50:00.489 --> 01:50:03.810
me. He was on my radar for a bit and I have never

01:50:03.810 --> 01:50:05.930
actually tried to reach out, but I had Mike Salemi

01:50:05.930 --> 01:50:08.069
on a couple of times. So I need to reach out

01:50:08.069 --> 01:50:09.470
to him and see if I can make that connection.

01:50:09.930 --> 01:50:12.350
I've had some conversations with Mike and Mike's

01:50:12.350 --> 01:50:15.470
the same thing. Mike's amazing. He's a tuned

01:50:15.470 --> 01:50:19.449
in guy and it's... he's a protege of Paul check.

01:50:19.510 --> 01:50:22.689
So like, if you like anything, so let me, he's

01:50:22.689 --> 01:50:25.729
doing like, he got a lot of that from Paul check.

01:50:25.810 --> 01:50:28.869
Just like most of the shit you hear me repeat

01:50:28.869 --> 01:50:31.949
is, you know, stuff I heard from somebody smarter

01:50:31.949 --> 01:50:35.310
than myself, but something that Paul checks talks

01:50:35.310 --> 01:50:38.029
about a lot is like, don't listen to the shit

01:50:38.029 --> 01:50:41.350
I'm saying and take it on. You know, don't trust

01:50:41.350 --> 01:50:44.659
me. Try the shit I'm saying, you know, I think

01:50:44.659 --> 01:50:47.119
the biggest thing that I learned from him is

01:50:47.119 --> 01:50:51.039
it's like there's no specific modality. It's

01:50:51.039 --> 01:50:54.520
whatever gets you in touch with your inner knowing.

01:50:54.819 --> 01:50:58.739
That is the compass. You know, I mean, like there's

01:50:58.739 --> 01:51:02.479
so much talk about this diet and that diet. The

01:51:02.479 --> 01:51:05.760
thing you should be doing is eat the food, pay

01:51:05.760 --> 01:51:09.420
attention to how you feel. The ones that make

01:51:09.420 --> 01:51:11.779
you feel good, eat those ones. If you eat something

01:51:11.779 --> 01:51:14.060
that makes you feel like shit. Don't eat it.

01:51:14.140 --> 01:51:16.760
You know what I mean? So don't be worried about

01:51:16.760 --> 01:51:22.279
the dogma. Trust yourself, right? Like, and it's

01:51:22.279 --> 01:51:25.039
like the more you practice that and the more

01:51:25.039 --> 01:51:28.439
you polish the mirror, like a Zen saying, like

01:51:28.439 --> 01:51:31.840
the greater your ability to know what's going

01:51:31.840 --> 01:51:35.819
to be good for you becomes. Absolutely. Well,

01:51:35.939 --> 01:51:37.739
the very last question before we make sure everyone

01:51:37.739 --> 01:51:39.680
knows where to find you and conscious movements,

01:51:39.920 --> 01:51:44.659
what do you do to decompress? So obviously TRE

01:51:44.659 --> 01:51:51.920
is up there for me. Meditation is huge. I mean,

01:51:51.979 --> 01:51:56.939
I think it's kind of like when I, with health

01:51:56.939 --> 01:52:00.800
and fitness, it's like a while ago, like people

01:52:00.800 --> 01:52:03.800
didn't exercise. And I mean, obviously the number

01:52:03.800 --> 01:52:07.239
of people who exercise is still abysmal, but

01:52:07.239 --> 01:52:10.739
we understand exercising is good for your health.

01:52:12.819 --> 01:52:17.260
We in the West don't know how to work with the

01:52:17.260 --> 01:52:20.899
mind, but the Eastern religions figured that

01:52:20.899 --> 01:52:24.260
shit out. Like meditation is how you work with

01:52:24.260 --> 01:52:27.720
your mind. So I think you have to have that component

01:52:27.720 --> 01:52:32.319
to be a healthy person. So meditation's a huge

01:52:32.319 --> 01:52:36.260
one. TRE. I mean, I love doing sauna, ice bath,

01:52:36.579 --> 01:52:40.619
which I experience or I view those maybe a little

01:52:40.619 --> 01:52:43.550
different than most people. um i know there's

01:52:43.550 --> 01:52:46.789
health benefits but i really don't care about

01:52:46.789 --> 01:52:49.470
it again how do i feel when i do an ice bath

01:52:49.470 --> 01:52:52.649
i feel better so i don't you mean like you can

01:52:52.649 --> 01:52:54.810
get so mixed up and do it at this time do it

01:52:54.810 --> 01:52:57.810
at that time only do it for this or that but

01:52:57.810 --> 01:53:00.689
do you feel good when you do it you know what

01:53:00.689 --> 01:53:03.649
i mean and and the bigger thing for me is is

01:53:03.649 --> 01:53:07.189
the mental challenge of it right like it's it's

01:53:07.189 --> 01:53:10.060
that same piece as meditation like You're going

01:53:10.060 --> 01:53:12.699
to get that voice every time you do the ice bath.

01:53:13.119 --> 01:53:15.779
Don't do it. You know, it's why do you have to

01:53:15.779 --> 01:53:17.899
do it today? Whatever you should, you'll be fine.

01:53:18.000 --> 01:53:20.600
Just do it tomorrow. No one knows. Again, that

01:53:20.600 --> 01:53:25.180
becomes, can you be aware of that? And then make

01:53:25.180 --> 01:53:27.600
the courageous decision prior to that. No, I'm

01:53:27.600 --> 01:53:29.819
going to do it. And as you do that, you just

01:53:29.819 --> 01:53:32.720
get more and more skilled at it. So I see ice

01:53:32.720 --> 01:53:35.100
baths and sauna as just another way of working

01:53:35.100 --> 01:53:39.140
with your mind. And then training your nervous

01:53:39.140 --> 01:53:42.060
system, right? Understanding how the nervous

01:53:42.060 --> 01:53:46.119
system works. When you're in a sauna, can you

01:53:46.119 --> 01:53:50.279
keep your breath in that regulated, calm, parasympathetic

01:53:50.279 --> 01:53:54.779
state? The longer you can do that, the more aware

01:53:54.779 --> 01:53:59.420
of an operator you're going to be in a LDH situation

01:53:59.420 --> 01:54:02.619
when you're in a fire. You have that ability

01:54:02.619 --> 01:54:06.319
to practice bringing yourself down. I'm in the

01:54:06.319 --> 01:54:08.300
sauna for 30 minutes and now I'm hot as hell

01:54:08.300 --> 01:54:10.520
and I'm ready to get out. And my mind's like,

01:54:10.600 --> 01:54:12.840
dude, just get out, get out, get out. All right.

01:54:12.840 --> 01:54:16.260
Can I take two more breaths? Oh shit. Let me

01:54:16.260 --> 01:54:19.340
take three more breaths. And that's resiliency,

01:54:19.420 --> 01:54:23.140
right? You know? And so I would say those, I

01:54:23.140 --> 01:54:25.720
mean, there's many other, I was fortunate enough

01:54:25.720 --> 01:54:29.460
after the two days in Colorado, I got a day to

01:54:29.460 --> 01:54:35.199
go hike a bear peak, which was unreal. So disconnecting

01:54:35.199 --> 01:54:40.439
and getting in nature. Yeah, I mean, there's

01:54:40.439 --> 01:54:42.779
so many and that's the thing. Find out what works

01:54:42.779 --> 01:54:47.079
for you. You know, there's so many things that

01:54:47.079 --> 01:54:51.800
work. So just the bigger thing is being less

01:54:51.800 --> 01:54:57.079
tied to a specific strategy and be more curious

01:54:57.079 --> 01:55:01.539
about your felt sense when you do the thing and

01:55:01.539 --> 01:55:03.779
follow that thing. You know what I'm saying?

01:55:05.319 --> 01:55:07.720
Absolutely. All right. Well, then for people

01:55:07.720 --> 01:55:09.680
listening, if they want to reach out to you,

01:55:09.739 --> 01:55:12.239
learn more about you, find Conscious Movements,

01:55:12.300 --> 01:55:14.680
where are the best places online or on social

01:55:14.680 --> 01:55:19.640
media? So my website is conscious -movements

01:55:19.640 --> 01:55:23.600
.com. I share a little bit, I mean, about this

01:55:23.600 --> 01:55:25.939
conversation. I have a little bio about my fire

01:55:25.939 --> 01:55:28.899
service and all the stuff we talked about on

01:55:28.899 --> 01:55:31.659
there. And then I have links to a bunch of different

01:55:31.659 --> 01:55:35.460
videos that have been helpful for me. I have

01:55:35.460 --> 01:55:40.479
all the books that I've read that relate to all

01:55:40.479 --> 01:55:43.579
this stuff. And every single book on there was

01:55:43.579 --> 01:55:46.560
kind of like a breadcrumb from the universe for

01:55:46.560 --> 01:55:50.279
me. So they're almost in chronological order

01:55:50.279 --> 01:55:54.659
of how I read them. So anything you see on there

01:55:54.659 --> 01:55:58.119
will help you on this journey and it'll spark

01:55:58.119 --> 01:56:01.439
your mind. um to you know a different way of

01:56:01.439 --> 01:56:04.560
healing um so my website you can check that out

01:56:04.560 --> 01:56:08.539
and then conscious movements on instagram and

01:56:08.539 --> 01:56:13.199
then fire tribe is our non -profit that i'm hooked

01:56:13.199 --> 01:56:17.260
up with the guys from fdny um so i that's that's

01:56:17.260 --> 01:56:18.859
the biggest thing i'm pushing right now that's

01:56:18.859 --> 01:56:22.119
the biggest project going i mean i have full

01:56:22.119 --> 01:56:24.739
-time work with my conscious movements so i don't

01:56:24.739 --> 01:56:27.380
i don't i don't have any more room for clients

01:56:28.319 --> 01:56:31.420
I have a full time schedule with a beautiful

01:56:31.420 --> 01:56:36.600
wife and two beautiful kids. So Fire Tribe, though,

01:56:36.619 --> 01:56:38.439
I really want to push that out. I really want

01:56:38.439 --> 01:56:43.260
to grow that. And we are looking to come share

01:56:43.260 --> 01:56:46.399
this with any department who's interested. Right

01:56:46.399 --> 01:56:49.340
now, we're doing it for free. I mean, obviously,

01:56:49.460 --> 01:56:53.460
we need help with travel expenses, but we're

01:56:53.460 --> 01:56:55.420
not looking to make money. We're looking to give

01:56:55.420 --> 01:56:58.829
back. and part of our slogan is we're here to

01:56:58.829 --> 01:57:01.869
help and that's again from the beginning of our

01:57:01.869 --> 01:57:05.149
conversation we're just here we want to help

01:57:05.149 --> 01:57:07.409
right so we want to help our our brothers and

01:57:07.409 --> 01:57:11.010
sisters um and it's been it's been cool man it's

01:57:11.010 --> 01:57:14.409
as it's happening it's it's going in a really

01:57:14.409 --> 01:57:18.409
beautiful unfolding so it's it's check it out

01:57:18.409 --> 01:57:22.170
brilliant Well, I want to thank you so much,

01:57:22.189 --> 01:57:25.210
mate, not only for, you know, storytelling, the

01:57:25.210 --> 01:57:27.229
TRE and some of the other kind of therapeutic

01:57:27.229 --> 01:57:29.829
elements that we've discussed today, but also

01:57:29.829 --> 01:57:32.350
for your courageous vulnerability and talking

01:57:32.350 --> 01:57:34.930
about, you know, your highs and your lows. I

01:57:34.930 --> 01:57:36.770
think it's so important for people to hear these

01:57:36.770 --> 01:57:38.630
lived experience. And then, as I mentioned earlier,

01:57:38.729 --> 01:57:41.609
the hope of post -traumatic growth, finding your

01:57:41.609 --> 01:57:44.550
own unique toolbox. So I want to thank you so,

01:57:44.630 --> 01:57:46.489
so much for being so generous with your time

01:57:46.489 --> 01:57:48.569
today and coming on the Behind the Shield podcast.

01:57:50.060 --> 01:57:55.159
man it's it's amazing um the listeners like they

01:57:55.159 --> 01:57:56.819
don't know we tried to do this a couple weeks

01:57:56.819 --> 01:58:01.760
ago and we had a bunch of gremlins but it's it's

01:58:01.760 --> 01:58:03.840
all in perfect timing so getting to have this

01:58:03.840 --> 01:58:07.460
conversation i mean i literally flew back home

01:58:07.460 --> 01:58:11.319
yesterday so this experience is so you know still

01:58:11.319 --> 01:58:14.039
fresh in my mind and and getting to share it

01:58:14.039 --> 01:58:15.960
with you has been really really cool man and

01:58:16.720 --> 01:58:19.619
I used to be afraid to share this dream because

01:58:19.619 --> 01:58:22.600
I used to think, who the fuck am I to say this?

01:58:22.779 --> 01:58:26.699
But my dream is to change the culture for the

01:58:26.699 --> 01:58:30.560
first responder community. And it's happening,

01:58:30.659 --> 01:58:33.340
man. And you've been a big part of that. And

01:58:33.340 --> 01:58:37.819
like you said, these conversations, having the

01:58:37.819 --> 01:58:42.159
balls to share your story is really special.

01:58:42.359 --> 01:58:46.409
It's such a healing thing. I encourage anybody

01:58:46.409 --> 01:58:50.689
to do it and you will have the imposter syndrome.

01:58:51.689 --> 01:58:54.409
You know what I mean? Like I've been telling

01:58:54.409 --> 01:58:56.670
my story for a couple of years now and I still

01:58:56.670 --> 01:58:59.430
have that voice in the back of my head. Like,

01:58:59.430 --> 01:59:02.170
dude, no one, no one gives a shit. But anytime

01:59:02.170 --> 01:59:05.710
I hear somebody else share vulnerably and honestly,

01:59:05.850 --> 01:59:09.189
I'm it's you. Thank you. You know what I mean?

01:59:09.229 --> 01:59:13.899
So yeah. I appreciate it, man. And I hope to

01:59:13.899 --> 01:59:17.899
continue this conversation. And I hope the fire

01:59:17.899 --> 01:59:23.619
service can do better. And, you know, respect

01:59:23.619 --> 01:59:25.979
the badge, right? Like, we're privileged to wear

01:59:25.979 --> 01:59:30.180
it. So let's honor it. And let's take care of

01:59:30.180 --> 01:59:32.880
our fellow brother and sister. And let's spread

01:59:32.880 --> 01:59:34.079
some more love in this world.