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Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast.
As always, my name is James Gearing and this week it is my absolute honor to welcome back
onto the show snowboarder, manager and one of the men behind Bubbs Naturals, Sean Lake.
Now if you haven't heard my first interview with Sean, episode 558, I highly recommend
that you do and I just reposted it as a bonus episode.
One of Sean's closest friends growing up was Glenn Doherty, who became one of the two Navy
SEALs that was killed in the Benghazi incident.
Now in that first conversation, Sean details their friendship and the events of that day.
So in the second conversation, Sean details the ripple effect of that event, the pursuit
of the Congressional Gold Medal, death benefits and ensuring any future operators protecting
people in the same situation will be taken care of.
Now before we go to this incredible conversation, as I say every week, please just take a moment.
Go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback and
leave a rating.
Every single five star rating truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making it easier for
others to find.
And this is a free library of well over 1000 episodes now.
So all I ask in return is that you help share these incredible men and women stories so
I can get them to every single person on planet Earth who needs to hear them.
So with that being said, I welcome back onto the show, Sean Lake.
Enjoy.
Well Sean, I want to start by saying a couple of things.
Firstly for people listening, we spoke in our first interview in episode 558.
So if people haven't heard that episode yet, I urge them to hit pause on this one, go listen
to our initial conversation because obviously this is going to segue pretty strongly into
what we're talking about today.
So at that as a preface, I want to welcome you back onto the Behind the Shield podcast
today.
James, thanks man.
Thanks for having me back on.
A couple of years goes by, we bump into each other at a few events and all of a sudden
we realize there might be a lot more to talk about.
Yep, absolutely.
I think the last time we were face to face was the Go Ruck Games in Jacksonville.
Yep, absolutely.
Yeah, are they talking about putting that back on again?
Because I know they did it and then it seems to have paused for a while.
Well you know, when you have a guy at the helm who just loves getting around people
and seeing all that stuff happen, I think Jason is for it.
Yeah, absolutely.
Actually I'm reposting episodes and I'll probably put your one out actually before this one
comes out as a bonus episode.
I just put Rich Rice's episode out.
You talk about warrior poet.
That man has achieved more than most of us will ever do in 10 lifetimes and he's one
of the most humble human beings I've ever met in my entire life.
It's kind of cool.
Just get out there and do it, man.
Absolutely.
Now the other place where we kind of interacted, Bubz is one of the sponsors of 7X.
So talk to me about that through your lens.
Well that's a really neat one because it kind of taps into this different chapter of my
background.
Before all the adventures of Bubz Naturals, I used to be a professional snowboarder.
I rode big mountains and filming and a little bit of contest stuff back in the 90s into
the early 2000s, right when snowboarding was on this big popularity kick.
So I've just always been into good old fashioned sideways sports and surfing, skateboarding,
snowboarding has always been a huge part of my life.
And then obviously my best friend growing up is this big larger than life personality,
Navy Seal, Glenn Doherty.
And Glenn was kind of the same way.
Loved skiing, loved adventure sports, loved getting in the ocean and surfing, all the
things.
And we had a blast together.
So from him becoming enmeshed in the entire seal community, Mark Devine, Seal Fit out
here in the West Coast, Glenn's teammates that we've interacted with.
Somewhere along the way, I met Ryan Parrott and Ryan and I just totally hit it off.
And I realized like, wait a second, you skate?
He's like, I skateboard all the time.
My wife doesn't like it as much because I get hurt all the time, but I love it.
He's like, oh, I ski, I snowboard.
I do all these sports.
I'm like, what?
And then you know, I'm in a wing suiting and jumping out of planes.
And I'm like, oh man.
So we just like instantly became buddies.
And what I really loved about what he was doing was his charitable drive.
Like I was fired up on how much commitment he had to helping others and creating awareness
and just the drive to do it.
And I mean, look, he could be going out, doing a bunch of different things, working for profit
and trying to build up his wealth and build his empire.
And he just defined empire differently than a lot of people.
And he defined it by helping others.
And I was drawn to that.
And I really enjoyed supporting him as his ideas kind of came out.
He would use me as a sounding board and I'd be like, yeah, man, that sounds great.
And then he's like, I'm going to go to seven different continents on seven different days
and run a marathon and I'm going to jump out of a plane and I'm going to do all these things.
And I was like, holy crap, like that's huge.
And for him to have that vision, which is talk about your big, hairy audacious goals
and then actually get it done, assemble the team, do the training, grind through it all.
I mean, heck, that one person wearing bomb jacket, the whole bomb suit, adding all that
weight to the experience is just next level.
Not inexpensive.
And then they missed Antarctica.
So he went back a year later to tick that box.
It just shows a determination and drive that I think is admirable as hell.
So I was really lucky to be a part of that.
And I sponsored it.
I helped out with equipment, nutrition, the things that we do at Bubs.
Hey, you guys are going to tear your bodies apart.
Here's collagen peptides to fix you up.
You're going to be out for long bouts.
You're going to need extra energy.
Here are these healthy fats, our MCT oil.
Get out there and go.
I think our commitment to military charity with our 10% to charity rule aligned really
well with how Ryan sees the world.
And we just cut through some of the clutter.
I think he dealt with some, I'm not going to say shady characters.
I'm just going to say some colorful characters that maybe made some big promises and underdelivered,
which put him on the hook for a lot of money to execute that event.
And I would never put myself in that position, but we did put ourselves in a good position
to say, what do you need for support?
I'm going to be consistent.
I'm going to be reliable and I'm going to be here to help.
And we just hit it off.
It's funny.
We were probably touching base just after Christmas talking about getting on snow and
having some good fun.
He's like, I'm going to go skiing.
And I'm like, you sell out.
Maybe I should be snowboarding, but he's just a solid human.
And I love that.
I can't wait to see what they do with the footage and the storytelling and put that
out there.
And I know you're a part of that.
So I can't wait to see what you guys got cooking.
Yeah, it was incredible.
I've got to say, when I think of a lot of the people that were part of it, they are
the same people that I chased that sponsored the podcast too.
And the reason is these are incredible companies.
There's a level of altruism beneath each of them, whether it's 5-Eleven or Transcend
or Bubs or Thorn.
And this is why, you know, when you look at, I've got a mouse, like a mouse pad, and it's
got all the sponsors on there.
And I'm like, this is literally the people that we should be buying from, the people
that we should be using their products because they're not just chasing the bottom line.
Yes, of course they're a business, but each and every one of these companies, yourself
included, are also doing that social business, using some of the profits to give back to
the communities.
Yeah, hands down.
I think that's probably one of the most important things is like, why do you do what you do?
What's your why?
And if you have a strong, compelling reason why you do things, it'll drive you farther
than you can go if you don't really care.
Like if you're just ticking boxes, man, you're just ticking boxes.
But if you like are fired up, whatever your hack is to get there, or just true passion
you feel in your heart that like, you know, propels you forward, you're going to do more
and you're going to do a better job.
And you know, it's with a company like Thorne, I love using them as an example.
Their commitment to quality is inarguable.
Like no one walks out and says, those guys are full of shit.
You don't do it.
You just you know that the integrity is there, the third party testing that, that validation,
we know they care about anything that you're ingesting in your body for human performance
for doing better.
Man, like I ordered their product last night.
I'm like, I'm proud to buy their product.
I don't have to sift through it and wonder like, what's hokey and what's not right.
I know that I'm dining at the top.
And you know, that's quite frankly, what we try to do is make sure that you don't have
to take my word for it.
Look at the reviews.
Look at the third party testing.
Look at the science, these products that we make at bubs, they work.
And not only do they work, if we do our job well, we're going to be able to help out a
lot of people, not just from buying the products, but because I'm going to be able to donate
to different charitable causes.
I mean, I literally two nights ago bought tickets to a Ken Block Memorial event.
And you know, it's a 501C3.
I can't even go to the event, but I'm like, Hey, I'm actually in a comfortable position
where I can spend, you know, it wasn't a huge amount of money, but you know, a couple hundred
bucks on each ticket to go and support a great cause.
Man, wouldn't it be cool if you didn't have to go to like a sales committee and asked
to do those kinds of things.
And you could just like make it a part of call it your marketing if you have to, but
just live it.
So yeah, those brands all live it.
And that's, you know, they're the ones I like getting behind.
Go Ruck, they live it, man, 100%.
Like I use a Go Ruck backpack every single day.
It may not be the sexiest backpack, but I'll never break it.
This thing's going to outlast me.
Yeah, they're amazing.
They really are.
And again, you know, just as a community, what they do, I think tribally, you know,
they bring communities together and we saw it at Sandlot Jacks, all those groups of
people that came from all over the country, actually probably beyond the national borders
as well.
And it was because of that tribalism in a positive way that they found that kind of
shared suffering that we lean into in the military and the fire when we're first trying
to get selected in the first place.
And yeah, I mean, you just that day was nothing but, you know, smiles and, you know, conversation
and community.
And this is why I hope they do bring it back because it was phenomenal and it was coming
right out of COVID too.
So it was what we every single one.
It was a great, it was a great F you to COVID.
It was a phenomenal, like in person IRL, let's go.
We're not virtual here people.
Which is funny because Jason and I actually met on, I don't even remember the name of
the app.
I don't think it lasted, but we were asked to be guests.
That's the one.
No, it was a social media app that was audio only.
And we were asked to be guest speakers on this conference talking about health and wellness
from the male perspective.
And we meet on this app and we're just like, we're both like pinging away.
We're just like, I don't know you man, but you're cool.
This is like in the middle of 2020 when that's all anyone had to do was be on social media
because that was how we were trying to keep our social fabric connected.
And I just, I was like, I don't know this Jason guy, but I want to get to know him.
And we got to know each other a little bit better after that.
I'm just like, I like your brand.
I like what you do.
And as soon as he announced Sandlot, I was like, yeah, you're bringing people together.
That's what this is all about.
We're not here to be alone on an island.
We're here to be in these tribes and really celebrate it and have one big tribe called,
in our case, America.
Absolutely.
Well, in your case, Great Britain and America.
Yep.
Well, I mean, I'd like to say there's no corners to the planet.
So I consider us all brothers and sisters.
I like it.
So you mentioned obviously, you know, growing up with Glenn, so let's revisit, you know,
who he was, the relationship that you guys have, and then then we'll kind of walk towards
Liberia and beyond.
Yeah.
So, you know, so, so Glenn Doherty and I, we grew up in Winchester, Massachusetts, little
small suburb out of Boston.
And that other episode does cover a lot of this.
So, you know, I'll give you the cliff notes on it.
But Glenn was literally this like larger than life personality.
He was like the king of all of our friends.
He just was kind of the center of that universe.
And you know, like you're around those people that have that glow, that personality, that
pop that, man, you're just, you're stoked to be around it.
And it kind of elevates you a little bit.
And he did that for a lot of people in that little town of Winchester.
And then he did it when he and I decided that because we had this adventure lifestyle just
coursing through our blood to drop out of college and do the most unconventional thing
back in 1991 and moved to Snowbird, Utah, to try and become pro athletes.
And he absolutely energized that community.
And then, you know, he'd like, he was just the guy everyone wanted to be around.
And we all partied together because that's what you do when you're a ski bum.
Chase Powder, like I have all these amazing memories.
And that community loved him and love him dearly now.
And that's a pattern.
And then Glenn said, hey, at 25, he hadn't made it as a pro skier.
And he's like, you know, I think my next adventure is I heard about joining the Navy.
I'm going to become a Navy SEAL.
And we're like, what?
Like that Charlie Sheen movie?
What?
Like, well, let's go rent it on VHS and see if that's what you want to do.
And sure enough, like we rent the movie and he's like, yeah, that.
All right, man.
So I drove him to the Navy recruiter.
He signs his paperwork.
A year later, my best friend, my brother from another mother is a Navy SEAL graduates from
Buds.
I'm at his Buds graduation down in Coronado.
Like holy crap.
And I'm this vagabond, pro snowboarder, just traveling the world, having a blast, trying
to figure out what the heck I'm going to do with my life.
And he served 10 years down in Coronado SEAL Team 3, West Coast.
And when I was lucky enough, just the way life worked out, I ended up graduating from
college, wrapping up my snowboard career and moving to San Diego.
I got recruited by Burton snowboards to work with a young pro athlete named Sean White,
who went on to win all boatload of gold medals.
And someone I call a friend to this day, just a cool kid.
So that moved me to North County, San Diego.
And all of a sudden I'm in the hub of all things, action sports and cool guy, pro athlete
lifestyle.
And my best buddy is right down the street in Coronado doing the coolest job ever, like
blowing shit up as a SEAL.
So in between his deployments, combat or otherwise, we're always getting together and getting
the band back together.
We've had these great years together all through our chapters, like teenage years in our 20s
ski bumming.
And then in our 30s, when he was originally in the SEALs and then when he got out, he
was like 36, I guess 37, he moved up to Encinitas.
So now he was in the town that I was living in.
Next thing you know, we're two guys that are divorced, turning 40, roommates again, like,
oh God, what are we doing with our lives?
What happened the time of our lives, like training over at the local CrossFit gym that
was owned by another SEAL named Mark Devine.
So we were training at SEAL Fit.
Glenn's buddies from the teams were my buddies, all of our workout buddies in Encinitas, the
John McKinley's, the Danny Miller's, like these guys are just such big personalities
in our community.
We're all rallied around.
I mean, I met my wife, Heather, through Glenn, with Glenn.
And he's just tied to so many integral memories because he was that big of a person.
And then we lost him.
You know, and I talked about this before, Glenn was contracting for the CIA.
He was a GRS operative, providing security overseas for CIA assets.
He was bouncing all over the place.
He'd be in Mexico, Beirut, Afghanistan, Iraq, a bunch, Yemen.
I probably shouldn't say any of this stuff, but whatever.
And his last one was at Tripoli in the fall of 2012.
And anyone who remembers the terror attacks on 9-11 in Benghazi, Libya, they know a little
bit about what happened to Glenn and why he's not with us any longer.
Or if you ever saw the movie 13 Hours.
So you and I talked a lot about that, what that was like and losing him and kind of the
legacy we built after Glenn died, which was starting the Glenn Dortey Memorial Foundation,
helping special operators transition from active duty to civilian life.
It was starting Bubbs Naturals.
Glenn's call sign in the Navy was Bub.
So this brand that we have, this amazing thing that I just love going to work every day and
energizing myself with Bubbs is a literal tribute to Glenn and his service, his ability
to stand for these great principles, self-improvement, helping others.
And we do that.
We do it with our products, self-improvement.
We do it with our charitable mission, helping others.
And it's just kind of woven into this North Star that we've been charging for over six
years now.
And it's awesome.
Glenn helped make that happen.
Like his energy and ethos have really made it happen.
And I guess what you and I connected about, of course, was that there was so many other
things that happened in those years in between that I just, heck, never talked about.
Just kind of quietly went through.
My wife knows all about it.
God, she lived it.
And our friends lived it.
But it was never something that really came out that much about what happened after Glenn
died.
Like what happens with your government?
What happens with his employers?
What happens?
What are the mechanics behind things like the Defense Base Act?
And man, I got to learn all that firsthand.
So we talked before we hit record.
There's a lot of people I had on the show that had selfless service, whether it was
in a uniform, excuse me, a military uniform, whether it's first responders.
And sadly, there are a lot of stories of organizations that after the fact really let either that
individual or their families down.
So kind of like you mentioned, you lost Glenn.
What did the next kind of few dominoes look like?
And how were you able to help kind of intervene and right some of the wrongs?
Yeah.
I mean, huge question there.
So when Glenn died, there's kind of these immediate things that happen.
Like you get his Form DD-214.
I guess I should clarify.
I was the executor of Glenn's estate.
So I was in charge of all of his legal affairs, bank accounts, death, mortgages on his house,
you name it.
And that's how it all stopped here.
Glenn and I had made our wills out to each other with these very specific demands of
each other that if Glenn dies, he gets all my debt.
If I die, Glenn gets all my debt.
And it was really funny at the time until it wasn't as funny.
But being the executor of someone's estate is a very serious job and it's not an easy
job and it takes a long, long time to facilitate.
Well, one of the things I knew about Glenn was that he had a life insurance policy and
he had to have a life insurance policy per his employers at the CIA for every time he
deployed.
And they had an insurance company called Rutherford Insurance and their sole existence seemed
to be to, I could use colorful languages, but to provide a life insurance policy for
anyone deploying overseas.
And a bit predatory if you ask me, because when you align that life insurance policy
against an archaic piece of legislation called the Defense Base Act, you can quickly read
and Google this or chat GPT it that there is literally no way this death benefit would
pay out if you didn't meet very strict criteria.
Glenn was single.
He was not married and he had no dependents, not going to pay out.
So he literally bought a life insurance policy specifically for a deployment that was never
going to pay out.
Now, I didn't know this.
I called Rutherford up and I said, Hey, horrible tragic accident happened.
Here's the policy number.
Here's Glenn's signature.
Like I've got his laptop.
Here's everything you need.
By the way, what does it pay out?
Because I'm going to receive those funds and I'm going to distribute them to Glenn's family.
And we had this funny arrangement, funny in hindsight, where Glenn wanted me to take any
money that he had left over and throw a huge party.
That was his death wish.
Like throw a huge party, take my friend's heli skiing, go on surf trips to Tavarua,
just have a blast, throw a rager for me.
And we did.
But I talked about this, I think prior, I made a rule up in my head.
Okay, well, look, after Glenn died, I'm like, look, I'm going to take 100% of his assets,
what is it?
$100,000, $200,000 of all in everything he's got.
And I'm going to divide by four.
I'm going to give a quarter of it to his mom.
I'm going to give a quarter to his sister.
I'm going to give a quarter of it to his brother.
And I'm going to keep a quarter of it.
And I'm going to do an investment account called the Cult of Recreationalism just for
those heli trips and those surf trips and those epic adventures.
And I did.
And I have bought really expensive condos in Vegas to take our buddies from high school
to a Patriots game.
I have flown bros out to go and ride powder.
We've been doing it.
And it's an investment account, so I can keep it rolling and keep it going.
Anyways, I thought this money from his death benefit would go into that, into his estate
and then get distributed accordingly.
And it took maybe a month or two before finally Rutherford's like, oh, this won't pay out.
Sorry, he's not eligible.
And they were just, that was it, cut and dry.
I'm like, what the fuck?
What the fuck?
Now at this point, it's been a couple months and now I'm mad.
Like I'm past sad.
Sad was the first chapter of grief, losing my best friend, my brother.
But that flipped to anger real quick.
And I had an easy target, CIA, this insurance company.
So around that time, I'd been approached by a law firm, major law firm called K&L Gates.
And they had seen what was happening out in the press and the public.
And they said, hey, we want to help you.
Pro Bono, we're here to help manage whatever it is you're going to go through with this.
And I'm like, well, I got a major issue here.
So K&L Gates paired me with a West Coast attorney guy named Michael Mortenson, who's a deep
dear friend to this day.
And we sued Rutherford Insurance and the Department of State, or no Department of Labor, I think
was the other one.
And we sued him in federal court.
So here I am, like early 2013.
And I went from private citizen, surf bro, to private citizen.
Oh shit, my name's in the newspaper because I'm suing the federal government.
That was a pretty heavy moment.
I was definitely like, I was mad.
I was energized by a wrong that needed to be righted.
And I was willing to, I guess, tap into that part of me that says, hey, fuck it, man, I'll
do this.
I mean, that's the old snowboarder in me.
I don't know.
But it was an injustice I wasn't willing to let lie.
So I ended up in federal court in San Diego and I lose.
I lose right away.
Judge is pissed.
Judge is pissed not at me.
The judge is pissed because she knows that this is absolutely an abomination.
But she looks at the insurance company and she's like, you know, you know that this is
the wrong thing to do, to hide behind this defense base act.
And so, okay, our attorneys lick our wounds.
We regroup later and they say, okay, well, we lost, but we took our swing.
We had to.
Let's leverage that into a bigger discussion about what we want to accomplish here.
But we had a strategy discussion and James, like this is one of the areas that I actually
like I like doing in business.
Like, well, what do we want to accomplish?
And I was like, well, here's my kind of like zero to one goal.
My zero to one goal is I want this death benefit paid.
Glenn laid down his life serving his country, saving lives over there.
He goddamn deserves this money.
Okay, we lost that lawsuit, but I'm not giving up on that.
The second thing I'd like to do, and we all huddled and talked about this, is I'd like
to future proof his brothers, his future brothers from going through this exact same experience.
Because James, as much as I'd like to think that Benghazi will never happen again, it's
going to happen again.
We are going to lose veterans, contractors, active duty folks.
And as long as they're private citizens that are former military doing security work for
the CIA, for the State Department, for other groups, they're going to fall into this exact
same trap.
So I'd like to future proof that like, how do we get them to craft language that, you
know, just makes these guys aware, like, hey, this life insurance policy that we're making
you get isn't going to work.
So go get another one, because you're going to need a second policy.
All right, so that was like second.
And then the third one, I actually give to an attorney named Amy Carnival, because she
thought this vision out, I actually didn't really know much about it.
But it was a legacy play to honor Glenn's legacy.
And she said, well, how about if we take a swing at the Congressional gold medal?
It's the highest congressional honor that you can give to civilians.
And we should do it for Ambassador Stevens, for Tyrone Woods, for Glenn Doherty, for Sean
Smith, all four Americans that were killed in Magasi.
Now this isn't now I think at this point, we're in like early 2014.
And I'm like, wow, I really like that.
Like because Glenn's legacy, we'd already preserved through the Glenn Doherty Memorial
Foundation.
But, wow, like that's really punches it up.
So around that time, the CIA quietly awards Glenn and Tyrone Woods, those gold stars that
they put on the CIA wall.
So there's a wall when you walk into the CIA building that has these stars that are markers
for those that have fallen.
And Glenn received one, Tyrone received one, and it was a somber ceremony.
It was really well done.
It was quiet.
It wasn't like boatloads of newspapers.
But Congressional gold medal is like a, it's a bigger, it's a bigger, more public deal.
So I felt like that was a great way to celebrate it.
So we kind of have the zero to one, one to two, two to three goals.
And I was like, you know what, if I just get Glenn's money paid and I can distribute that
out to his family and do that part, like I will feel like that's a win.
Then the movie comes out, you know, 13 hours.
Now the hype's all around this thing.
It's congressional time.
There's all this buzz going on about who's running for president.
And it's still in the news.
Like it's been two full years and Benghazi is still major news cycle.
And I ended up getting a meeting with John Brennan.
And I fly out to Washington, DC.
I'm flanked with the K&L Gates lawyers and an army of lawyers on the CIA side.
And I get to sit down with John Brennan.
And prior to sitting down with John Brennan, I also got to look at Glenn's employment contract.
They let me look at Glenn's employment contract.
That thing was so redacted.
It was like someone took a goddamn Sharpie marker and just crossed out every word except
Glenn.
Sign.
Like it was like fucking useless.
So I went into this meeting with John Brennan mad.
Again, I'm fueled by grief and a sense of injustice.
I've lost this lawsuit.
I kind of got nothing to lose.
And then they show me Glenn's contract.
And it's like the whole goddamn thing's redacted.
So like you can't make any sense of it.
So I'm like, how am I supposed to help future proof this for Glenn's brothers if I can't
even understand the language that they're presented with in the first place?
You see how insane that is.
So anyways, I get in the room with John Brennan and I kind of threatened him.
I didn't kind of threaten him.
I threatened him not like physically like I'm going to take a swing at you John Brennan
because I'm pretty sure I can take you.
It was I presented him with the idea that he has an opportunity, had an opportunity
to do the right thing.
Don't tell me you don't have the money somewhere, somehow to pay this death benefit.
Don't tell me that because God knows what kind of gold toilet seats you guys are buying
when no one's looking.
So you have an opportunity to do the right thing.
And it would be a shame if I walked out of these doors and sat down with the Washington
Post and the New York Times and told them how you blew it because you could have done
the right thing for your soldiers that laid down their lives serving their country and
chose not to.
And then the second topic I gave was, you know, hey, like, this is going to happen again.
What are you guys going to do about it?
Like this just happened.
It's happened before.
I don't know how much but I guarantee Glenn wasn't the first one.
What are you going to do about it?
And I was sweating bullets.
Kate, Glenn's sister was at the room.
She kicked me under the table like, shut the fuck up, Sean.
You're gonna get us kicked out of here.
John Brennan stood up.
He didn't say barely a word.
And he just looked at me and he said, we'll look into it.
Now I was even madder than I'm like, oh, we'll look into it like some politician bullshit
speech and like, you know, just fucking steam coming out.
He walks out of the room.
And Amy, one of the you know, the attorneys for K and L case, she kind of grabs me and
she's like, hey, that's really good.
He usually doesn't say anything, like nothing.
He just listens and leaves the fact that he said that might mean something.
So like, okay, I'll take your word for it.
Like, I don't know where I am.
I don't know the politics.
I don't know how this game is played.
I just know that I met the guy who is ultimately responsible for the decision of what happened
to not, you know, to Glenn in Benghazi, but for what happened after he died.
And the buck stops there.
Well, obviously the buck stops at the White House.
But I leave the room.
A couple months goes by, six months goes by.
There's nothing no word.
I'm like, well, we took our shot.
Maybe we'll just start working on this.
You know, we'll get started a little bit heavier on the Congressional gold medal.
And we'd already laid the groundwork for that.
So like, I'll just put my energy there because it looks like I took the last shot I could
take on this one.
And then I get word by seven, eight months later.
Hey, Sean, you're not going to believe this.
You know, the attorney's call that you're like, they're going to pay Glenn's death benefit.
It's going to take a while.
There's a lot of paperwork, but they're going to pay it.
Not only that, Sean, they're going to pay this death benefit back to every single American
who lost their lives dating back to Beirut.
And they're like, that's over 30 families, 28 families, like some giant number of families.
I'm like, so we're talking about millions of dollars of discretionary funding that John
Brennan, who I was not very happy with in the moment, dug into it with his team and
said, this is wrong.
We're going to make it right.
And over the next year, the monies were distributed.
And we started getting word from some of these families that fell into this trap that had
no pulpit.
They had no opportunity to get in front of the CIA director and cry foul.
And they reached out and they're like, thank you so much for helping our family.
I'm like, holy shit.
We really changed some lives here.
We actually got this done.
And man, it was fricking bananas.
So getting that word, and there were some real human stories that came with it about
ailing parents and widows and how the money came in at just the right time to help out.
And it's feel good stuff, man.
And Kate and Glenn, I'm sorry, Kate and Greg and Barbara, Glenn's family got the funds
distributed to them.
And it's like, whoa, all right, we did it.
So unexpectedly, my biggest thing that I wanted out of that too was this future proofing.
It was this idea that they would warn contractors to get their own insurance, like go do something
else.
And I learned years later, and this actually wasn't public at the time, I learned years
later because I met the attorney, a retired attorney for the Central Intelligence Agency.
I bumped into him at a conference, like really odd that I would meet this guy.
And he's like, hey, I know who you are.
You do?
And he said, yeah, I'm the attorney who wrote this memo.
It was one of the most important memos I ever wrote while working for the CIA.
And I wrote it to ensure that any GRS operative, any agent, any contractor for the CIA that
is killed overseas does not fall into the trap of the Defense Base Act.
And that wouldn't have been possible if you hadn't made such a stink.
So thank you.
I said, thank you.
James, it was fucking surreal.
I met the guy who wrote the memo and I made his life, I'm sure miserable during my kicking
and screaming and I'm going to go to the press.
And I definitely painted it, I guess, in a way that helped them understand the human
side of those types of bureaucratic decisions.
And yeah, it was really impactful.
So I was like, man, I just got zero to one done.
And I just got one to two done.
And again, I didn't learn about that until years later.
It was like 2022 or something.
It took a long time.
I found that out like kind of last, but it was actually the most rewarding to know that
no matter what happens, there's going to be a future SEAL, a future special operator,
a future electrician who knows, you know, that's going to serve overseas and be a part
of a horrible situation.
And they're not going to get screwed over.
It's important.
And to have played a part in that and to have played a part in seeing 30 families get redemption
and respect and honor for the sacrifices that their family members have made.
Man, like I never in a million years could have thought that that would happen.
I can tell you that it's a good feeling.
And I mean, I do it all over again.
I hope I never have to.
But it was really satisfying.
Times down, the one that took the most time and energy and hours was going after the Congressional
gold medal.
Yeah, that one, that was like, I think we started that officially in 2014, started to
gather signatures.
And you got to understand, like, you have to do this within a congressional session,
right?
So you only have so much time to gather the right amount of signatures.
So they drafted the legislation, Ed Markey, Senator out of Massachusetts, obviously was
a sponsor.
But this is meant to be not a Democrat initiative, not a Republican initiative, but a bipartisan
true American initiative.
So it was co-signed Republicans and Democrats together.
And then it stalled in Congress.
All right, so we went back the next year.
And I flew out to Washington, DC three times to meet with congressmen and or senators with
Kate or Kate went and then I would go a different time to walk the halls of Congress, which
is kind of a neat thing to be a part of our nation's history and walk down the alleys
underneath and like, you know, these crazy long hallways just to like, get a meeting
with a congressman from Ohio or, you know, Oklahoma or, you know, California and be able
to get that 10 minute pitch of why this is important and why they should support it.
And we did that on and off.
And the last time I think I went out there was like 2018.
We'd actually just launched bubs and, you know, it looked like we were almost there.
And then the attorneys, God love them.
Like Amy and her team just kept pounding the pavement and they weren't getting paid to
do this.
It was just like the right thing to do and I'm like, man, you guys are dedicated.
That's my plug for K and L gates.
I, you know, can't say I work with them much anymore, but, you know, God love them.
So they were dedicated to getting this thing all the way through and they kept hammering
at it and hammering at it.
And then it just kept stalling at the 11th hour.
There wouldn't be enough senators or there wouldn't be enough congressmen.
And finally, this was, this was 2022.
This is two and a half years ago, three years ago.
I get a call around Thanksgiving, the congressional session, you know, it ends right before Christmas.
So it's like, get this done or that's it.
And it was like, everyone at this point has been like, what are we nine years in on trying
to drive this through?
And you spend almost a decade of your life.
At this point, it had been 12 years since Glenn died.
Or on the 10 year anniversary, eight of which are spent fighting nine years spent, you know,
trying to get the congressional gold medal through.
And everyone was kind of like at the end of that fight.
And we had to huddle up and it was like, look at, we need seven senators.
That's all we need.
Like seven senators.
I'm like, okay, who do we need?
And it was like, well, we need this guy, Patrick Kennedy.
No, not Patrick Kennedy, someone Kennedy.
And he's a Republican.
And I'm like, I actually know his congressional aide.
Funny, small world from Sealfit.
Like I know how to reach them.
My business partner TJ's buddies with a guy we trained with for a long time, Ferris.
And Ferris like knew or dated the girl.
I can't remember the details, but it was like, I know how to reach them.
Okay, I'll take that one on.
What else we got?
Oh, you know, they start rattling off these senators and no one knows how to get them
to hold them.
But it's like, write this form email to each of them.
And it's like, just pepper them with this email, write the email every day and hit send,
write the email and hit send.
And one of the senators on the list is Bernie Sanders.
And I kind of raised my hand on that one.
I'm like, hey, I can get to Bernie.
She's like, no, you can't.
I'm like, no, like I used to work at Burton snowboards based in Vermont.
I used to work with this guy, Dave.
Dave's his godson.
Like they spend every holiday together.
Like I can get to Bernie and they're like, Bernie doesn't sign things like this.
I'm like, oh, so now it's a challenge.
Just like when Glenn died and I had to fight a death benefit.
I see what we're dealing with here.
And you know, I'm a competitive guy.
What can I say, James?
Like I was like, I'm going to call Driscoll.
I'm having this conversation with him.
And God love him.
Like Dave and I talk, you know, every once in a while about business initiatives.
We used to work together at Burton like 20 years ago.
And we keep in touch about just, you know, fitness, wellness, like trying to stay in
shape, all the things that, you know, we do.
And I hit him up and I said, hey, I've never asked you for a favor and I'm coming to you
for a favor.
And he said, okay, what's up?
I said, your old man, Bernie, you're going to spend the holidays with him?
He's like, yeah, I'm having Thanksgiving with him.
I said, well, you know what happened to Glenn and Dave knew all about Glenn.
I said, well, there's this medal we're trying to get signed, the congressional gold medal.
He's like, I know what the congressional gold medal is.
Dave's polished up on politics.
He had run Bernie's foundation.
Like he, you know, he's in the know.
And I said, I need a signature because if Bernie signs this thing, every other hold
out Democrat or independent or anyone on the fence is going to see that Bernie signed it
and they're going to sign it.
Like he's a domino effect for everybody else.
And he's like, okay, I got you.
And he knew how to bring it to the table and how to present it to him as a friend, not
necessarily even as an American.
And he texts me over the weekend.
He said, Bernie's going to sign it, sign it first thing Monday, call the attorneys up
and I'm like, got it.
And they're just like, how did you do that?
And I'm like, pays to be a snowboarder.
So you know, Bernie signed it and literally just like that, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
We got it over the line at the 11th hour.
We're talking like first week in December and it's on Biden's desk for signature on
like Christmas Eve.
So no, no media, no politics.
I don't think the Biden administration wanted to like bring a lot of attention back to Hillary
Clinton or anything like that.
It was very quietly passed, but I now have the placard with the legislation.
It's called like HR 310 for the congressional gold medal.
I have now seen a couple of renderings of different gold coins that all ghosts get sent
out to the families for approval for the kind of likeness and visuals because it's a physical
coin, the gold medal.
And there's several artists that bid it to do the job.
As far as I know today, literally in January of 2025, this thing is out for design.
And I'm kind of waiting for that culmination of just over a decade's worth of work to come
true with one last celebration and a big old cheers to bub celebrating with the congressional
gold medal.
And I'm going to invite every single person that New Glenn that I can reach out to for
that one.
Dip into the party fund again.
If I have to, 100%.
This one's worth it, man.
I mean, that is such an amazing story.
I'm so glad that you came back on and kind of carried that on because there's obviously
these hurdles, these brick walls that so many of us see.
And an interesting parallel is the cancer or the mental health presumptions in the fire
service.
A lot of states don't have those.
And then if they do, what I've heard from a lot of people is you will have these insurance
companies and kind of like you were saying with this kind of loophole with the Defense
Base Act, they will basically fight these first responders.
And the people have literally have been heard saying, we'll just keep fighting until they
die.
So this kind of lack of humanity, this mountain of red tape that gets in the way of people
simply doing the right thing.
I see it over and over and over again.
But to hear how being dogmatic, having that fire in your belly and then just figuring
out how to make it work and circumnavigating all these barriers.
I mean, what a beautiful story to show that if you believe in doing the right thing and
you accumulate a team of people that are behind you, that you can move mountains.
Yeah.
I can't say enough about Glenn's family and really about the Cannell Gates attorneys who
just kept driving like Dennis Potter, Amy Carnival, Michael Mortenson.
They kept the fight going and I had passion, I had energy, I brought all of that.
I didn't have a little bit of strategy to do the one, two and three.
But the actual execution, the amount of time spent behind the scenes lobbying congressmen
and senators to get what would seem to be like the most simple thing through, like the
most basic way to honor American service and sacrifice took forever.
John Brennan, who made a lot of policy decisions, made a lot of people pretty unhappy over the
course of his career, did the right thing.
He did the right thing.
He did the human thing.
It took this to get him to do it, but it happened.
I'm going to look back on all of this and be like, yeah, sure.
I got a life insurance policy paid, a couple of hundred thousand bucks for service.
That's great.
But wow, I got to pay to 30 something other families on top of that?
Holy crap.
And whenever this sort of thing happens in the future, I finally got to shine a light
on the Defense Base Act and the inequities that are built into it and how to remedy that,
at least for the central intelligence agency.
Hey man, Mike, that feels pretty freaking good.
And yeah, knowing that there's a gold star out at the CIA headquarters, I had nothing
to do with that.
It feels good.
But the Congressional gold medal, that's going to be a nice one.
When that one's all said and done.
And I don't know, I guess if you believe in something strong enough and you're willing
to go to bat for it and you're inspired by that fire in the belly, whatever you want
to call it, you can go a lot farther than you think you can.
You have this experience now, not only working in the snowboarding industry early in your
career, but then starting up with TJ, this company that you run now, Bubs.
When I stepped away from the fire service, realized again, how many barriers, how much
red tape, I'll give you a perfect example, a fire department and a union will sometimes
spend two or three years negotiating a single contract.
And this is a room of what I was told were grownups.
So I don't understand how the fuck human beings can't sit in a room and hash things out and
come to a conclusion in a very short amount of time.
So you'd be surprised.
Well, this is it.
So let's king for a day for a moment.
You have seen the things that work, the links that you were able to make to circumnavigate
a lot of these barriers.
What if we could kind of take principles from this, what needs to be applied to whether
it's the national government, the local government, a fire department to streamline these conversations
so that people aren't just wasting man hours and tax dollars to add molasses to a process
that ultimately will get solved or may not if there's a barrier to it.
But what is that inefficiency and how can we fix it?
Yeah, man.
I mean, I wish I had a simple answer.
I think humanizing any situation and being able to move away from purely bureaucratic
logic and we have a procedure and we have these steps we have to take and just injecting
a little bit of the human element can definitely help because it can help you kind of bend
the logic a little bit to a better sense of right and wrong and whether that's a moral
right and wrong or a legal right and wrong, it could be either.
But I think adding that human element, the definition of a livable wage in your case
when you're talking about a contract negotiation and being able to find common ground is key.
And look, I'm as guilty of it, you're as guilty of it as the next person.
Sometimes when you dig in your heels and you entrench yourself, hopefully it's because
you've arrived at what you believe is the line you can't cross or the line you can't
go back any further on.
But somewhere in that middle is where you want to be accommodating and you want to help
both sides get to a successful conclusion.
And that conclusion is, you know, you need something, I need something.
Let's figure out what we both need and let's find a way to get there.
It might take time, might take a long time, but if you can inject that more human element
to it, that I think can help rise above indignation, stubbornness or bureaucratic malaise or molasses
or whatever, you know, whatever that thing is, it holds it up to allow you to kind of
rise above that and find that common ground.
And that's a bit lofty of a concept there.
But I think it's applicable.
You know, I know when I go into any kind of negotiation, you know, I try and take that
approach of like, well, what do you need?
And what do I need?
And where's the middle ground?
One thing that I've encountered, and this is organizations that have already been given
all the information.
So the example that I'm talking about is our first responders, our firefighters specifically
who have been nothing short of heroic once again in California, for example, they work
56 hours a week.
We are deep into this recruitment crisis now.
So a lot of these men and women are being told, no, you can't go home tomorrow.
You got to work another 24.
So now it's an 80 hour work week.
And so I've collated so much information now.
I mean, obviously, even nutritionally, you know, with you and Thorne and everyone else,
but from the sleep medicine side and all these high performance and special operations that,
you know, it's insanity working our first responders the way that we do.
And this is why we have the cardiac arrests and the cancers and the suicides and all the
other things.
And so, you know, presenting all this information and actually, as I'm sure you can understand,
you know, you invest in your people, you actually save a lot of money because they don't break
and you're not having to fix them all the time.
And so a lot of departments in Florida have started to change to a shorter work week to
give them more rest and recovery.
But I'm also seeing a lot of cowardice where there is a refusal to change because now that
means I'm going to have to go to my city or county and say, hey, we need some more people
up front, but this is going to save us a lot of money downstream.
But we need to do this initially.
And I was saddened by it.
I thought that, you know, if you're wearing bugles on your jacket or, you know, you were
a city or county council member that you were of a certain quality that put you in that
leadership role.
But simply advocating for your own people, whether it's the citizens of your community,
whether it's your firefighters, that doesn't resonate with quite a few people.
So I've been very saddened by, you know, I'll say it, the cowardice in my profession of
people that won't step up and advocate and do the right thing.
Yeah.
You know, God, everyone's got to go home and look at themselves in the mirror and justify
their actions or inactions.
And you know, you just, I would hope for you and hope for anyone in that situation that
they have a really, really good foundation from which they're making those decisions
and they can articulate that because that's one thing that can at least help bridge the
gap is why?
Why aren't you willing to like, are you going to get fired?
Is that it?
Like you're scared of losing your job or is it you're scared it's not going to work and
then that's going to come back on you.
You're going to get fired because the policy you want to change or the thing that you want
to do isn't going to work.
Like, Hey man, none of us improve lives without taking some swings and none of us go through
life without scuffs, scars, bruises, blood, mud, all the things.
If you're willing to get in that arena, you got to get in the arena.
So those folks that are sitting on the sides, like that Theodore Roosevelt speech from all
those years ago, like I don't ever want to be in that company.
So yeah, like that is sad.
You just hope that they, you know, find that energy in them to get in there and do the
right thing.
And I think we've always been that way.
There's always been those folks in the side that just aren't willing to do that.
I'm on the other side of that.
Probably do too much of the other side where I'm getting scuffed up all the time.
I can relate.
Trust me.
I know you can.
All right, well, I've, well, you were talking, I just remembered actually, I was totally
wrong.
The last time we saw each other was the fireside chat where we had the two Iwo Jima veterans
in.
Oh, that's right.
We actually saw each other with Ryan Parrott.
Yep.
Absolutely.
So there you go.
There's Ryan again.
Yep.
Amazing.
Birdman.
So again, you were there again, you know, I mean, being so supportive of this altruistic
company that you're a part of, let's spend a little bit of time talking about bubs itself.
So we'll revisit the kind of origin story of how you fell into the world of collagen
and then the products that you offer us was sitting here today.
You know, happy to, and I mean, talk about one thing that's changed my life.
Normally, I should say that would be my wife for like, you know, getting me on a good straight
and narrow, but, but yes, that too.
You know, in 2017, my wife brought me home a jar of collagen and got it off Amazon, heard
about it.
She's a newscaster.
So she heard about it on the news through interviewing people and was like, Hey, this
is supposed to be really good for your joints and your knees sound like crinkled up newspaper
when you walk up a flight of stairs.
You know, at the time I was 45 years old, I'm 53 now.
And she's like, you know, we're having babies and you're not getting any younger.
I need to preserve you in your old age.
Literally, that was your quote.
And I'll never forget it.
I'm like, yeah, she's got a point there.
And you know, I like mountain biking and surfing and snowboarding and lifting weights and CrossFit
and all this stuff.
Like I got some miles on those, you know, and I started taking it and she said, look,
you just throw in your coffee every morning.
It's unflavored.
I throw a scoop in, tastes a little bit like cow, but whatever.
I mixed in my coffee and about a month goes by.
And I noticed that my fingernails are growing like crazy, right?
Like crazy.
I'm like, I'm the Wolverine right now.
We're the nail clippers.
And then a couple more weeks goes by.
I need a haircut.
I just got an haircut.
I'm like, I need another haircut.
What the hell's happening here?
And then about at the two month mark, we were flying cross country and you know, I'm six
foot two, almost six, three, and I'm sitting in the back of coach and like flying on airplanes,
like you're crunched up in the back.
Normally I get off that airplane and I would be like rubbing my knees, trying to get the
circulation going, tough, tough reacclamation.
And instead of hop off the plane, grab all the stuff, got all the baby gear, march off
the plane.
And I'm like, hon, I feel great.
She's like, Oh, that's nice, dear.
I'm like, no, you don't understand.
Like I feel awesome.
What the heck is in this collagen stuff?
Cause it's the only explanation is the only thing I'd done differently in my diet was
adding collagen to it.
So another month goes by and I just feel better and better and better.
And I'm like, man, I got to, I want to know what this stuff is.
So I was just a fan boy.
I was telling any one of my friends, you know, over the age of 40, I'm like, Hey man, you
need this stuff.
And around that time, you know, my former business partner came by this guy, TJ and
TJ rolls in and we're working on some work project and kind of ideating about different
stuff and he sees the jar of collagen and he's like, Oh, you take that stuff.
And I'm like, Oh yeah, man, changed my life best ever.
He's like, really?
He's like, y'all, it's a fast trending product on Amazon.
Cause he's a big e-commerce guy.
I'm like, well, I don't know about Amazon, but I can tell you it works.
And we're just like, Oh, we should start a company like, Oh yeah.
Like I got a one-year-old crawling around on the floor behind us, but sure.
What would that look like?
Like just having spit ball in a conversation, two guys sipping coffee.
And we looked at each other and we're like, well, you know, just for hypothetical sake,
if we ever did start a company and we both said this exact same time, we'd have to do
something cool for charity.
Open the statement.
And I just like, my face just lit up like a little light bulb went off right away.
And I'm like, well, I know the charity.
It's gotta be Glenn's charity and Glenn's call sign in the Navy was bub.
So a name, the company bubs naturals as a tribute to Glenn and his way of life.
And it was like full entrepreneurial energy, just like, yeah, we can do this.
We're just sitting around the table, five minute conversation.
But I was so energized by that conversation.
I called Glenn's family.
I called a couple of Glenn's teammates.
I never forget talking to Clint Emerson and Mikey Ritlin and Shane Hyatt about it.
Like, you know, three just fucking awesome, awesome humans that served with Glenn.
And I remember Mike specifically was like, Glenn would kick your ass if you don't do
this.
Like you have to do this.
I was like, that's it.
It's on.
And I just set out on this journey to really see if anyone would care if we gave 10% of
the company's profits to charitable causes, Glenn's foundation, other cool causes, and
just put out a good product.
So I didn't want a good product.
I really wanted a great product.
So like that started this like super exhaustive search around all the different collagen providers,
what's in these amino acids and figuring it out.
Well, collagen is ground up cowhide.
It's connective tissue.
It's glue.
It's a glue that holds the body together.
Hair, skin, nails, joints, muscle recovery, your intestines, literally how you're processing
food.
It's all collagen.
Collagen is the most abundant protein in the human body.
You have more collagen, James, in your body than any other protein.
But as I know from personal experience in science, you lose it.
After you turn 20, 21, 22, somewhere in there in the early mid 20s, you start losing collagen
at one to 2% a year every year.
So think about that.
If you start that journey at 25, when you're 35, you've lost 10 to 20% of the collagen
protein in your body.
Then go to 45.
Oh, like you're screwed.
So by supplementing with collagen with ground up cowhide, you're basically teaching your
body by, you know, exogenously put in your body to endogenously produce collagen.
So like, oh, if I just eat it more, I'm going to be able to produce more for my body.
And the effects of that are you're loading up your body with these key amino acids, glycine.
Glycine produces synovial fluid.
Glycine is linked to stronger sleep.
Sleep is linked to stronger recovery.
Like these are just in the amino acids that are like in the product.
So I wanted the absolute best product.
I wanted one that was considered conflict free.
So like where it was sourced was super important.
I knew there was a ton of cattle industry around the Amazon rainforest.
The snowboarder in me didn't want anything that was going to affect climate change.
So I'm like, let's find an area that's way away from there, but it's got to have the
best flavor, best solubility, best amino acid profile.
And it took a while, but we found the best source.
And we've been with them ever since.
Like we launched with them seven years ago.
We're with them today.
And I can say I'm single source to single supply.
I know the traceability, everything we do on this jar right here.
We have this badge right here.
It's the NSF for sport certification.
I get to proudly say I work with 24 out of 30 of the teams in major league baseball,
the NFL, the NHL.
Like we're in the locker room of like every hitter team that you'd want to be working
with and it's awesome.
And they all buy it.
They're customers of ours.
Yankees, Red Sox, Padres, like you name it.
And it's because it's good.
It's great.
It works.
It delivers.
And the brand stands for something.
It's not some generic like, oh, we're just another collagen brand.
It's like, no, no, we got the best collagen on the planet.
And we're third party verified to back that up and just put it in your cup and you tell
me.
That's Glenn, man.
That's Glenn right there.
Health improvement and helping others.
And we've donated, I think at this point, we're a little bit north of $300,000 to charitable
causes in that, call it seven years.
That's, I mean, I think we're just getting started.
I'm excited about that because you're just growing at first.
You're just trying to figure it out and cobble it together.
Now I'm like, oh, we can start writing some good checks here.
That's the juice.
That's the good stuff.
So yeah, we've got a line of nutrition products that we're really proud of.
We've got a functional creamer based on coconut oil.
It's an MCT oil powder.
Have you ever heard of like the Bulletproof style coffee?
We've got a delicious coconut oil MCT.
It's on tapioca starch.
It just creams up your coffee.
You don't need to add half and half into it.
It's just delicious.
And you get all these healthy fats that are great for mental focus.
They're insane for energy.
Like you're just buzzing for hours.
We have an organic line of coffee and we fresh roast here in North County and every roast
is a tribute to Glenn in different areas that he served.
So like we have one that's an Ethiopian single origin.
It's from Glenn's service time when he was overseas in Africa hunting terrorists on a
TV show called The Wanted.
We have another roast called The Origin and it's a Central American roast from a surf
trip that Glenn went on back in his 20s when he figured out he wanted to become a seal.
So I'm like, oh, the origin of Glenn's journey into service.
Glenn had a super challenging deployment into Mexico when he was working for the CIA.
And so we have a single origin Mexican roast called The Challenger.
And there are all these subtle little nods back to Bob, back to Glenn and his time in
service.
And we test every coffee to be certified mold free, aflatoxin free.
And so yeah, man, like clean, good coffee.
Let's go.
The Creamer is the world's only Whole30 approved MCT oil powder.
Like the things that I love being able to say because I know they're the best, but don't
take my word for it.
Like look at your labels, look at what's in the ingredients and take them out to test.
So that's it.
And we're having a lot of fun doing it.
We got a whole bunch of new stuff coming out this year, which I'm fired up about.
Why, as you know, I've used the collagen for several years now, pretty much since we first
met.
It was Jeff Nichols.
I'll always give him a nod because Thorne and Bubs, I think it was him.
When Jeff Nichols says this is good or this is shit, you're like, okay, well, that's good
and that shit then because I trust Jeff implicitly.
So but yeah, but I mean, you know, the being 50 now in this lighting is not doing me any
justice as far as the wrinkles, but you know, it's been amazing.
Like seeing the hair, the nails, which, you know, it's still important.
You don't want to be falling apart.
You don't want to be able to struggling to open a can because your nails are shit.
But we got a lot of stuff we want to do out there.
Exactly.
But then, you know, the skin, but also the GI health, the joint health.
I mean, I'm 50, I've been a stunt man, a firefighter, a martial artist.
So like you, you know, I've, I've, I've put a lot of mileage on this, uh, beat up meat
puppet at this point.
So I need all the help I can get, but yeah, the collagen has been amazing.
The apple side of vinegar, um, gummies that I have them periodically.
And then I don't know if you still have it because it's been out of stock for a while,
but the halo creamer, I love that.
I know that's what I was talking about.
Our MCT oil powder, the creamer.
So is that the one with the grass fed milk in it as well though?
The bar we do, we do too.
We do a vegan version that's just like, it's literally just coconut oil and tapioca starch.
And then we do another one where we add grass fed butter to it and it's just creamier and
delicious.
Yep.
That we got both of them and they are awesome.
Like those creamers to me are like every morning I look forward to that cup of coffee and throwing
a little bit of a, a little bit of the creamer in there.
Yeah.
I literally will say, cause I think the large tub has been out in stock online for a bit.
So I've had to use creamer and I'm like, I can't wait for Bubs to get back in stock
because even this creamer sucks compared to theirs.
And I'm genuinely handing my heart saying that and the coffee is delicious too.
So this isn't some paid plug.
This is, you know, from the heart testimony, but yeah, I mean, truly, truly amazing products.
And you know, for a bloke that's in his fifties, if I can, and I've had dry skin and all that
stuff, you know, lifeguards.
So my skin's been kind of beaten up.
Um, you know, the collagen has absolutely helped kind of slow down that process a little
bit.
Yeah.
It's an absolute game changer for sure.
And thank you.
It's, I love it.
Cause I'm, I'm actually like selfishly building products to help my lifestyle.
And you know, I look at like the things that I want to take and that I actively take that
make a difference in my life.
And I'm like, Hey, how can we do that?
Like I'll give you a hint.
Like we know in, in, you know, anyone who's in the nutrition space who ingests collagen,
it's very commonly known that vitamin C really helps you with the ingestion of collagen
and it helps with the absorption, you know, just rapid fire.
So a collagen of vitamin C go together like this.
Well, a lot of brands throw just a little sprinkle of vitamin C into their collagen,
which throws the taste off and it denatures under heat.
So it's like, it's, it's effectively useless.
It's a marketing scam.
So I say, well, Hey, why don't we just make a vitamin C little capsule, 500 milligrams
do at the highest level, a sorbic acid, put flavonoids in it.
So there's, you know, extra absorption and put that vitamin C and pair it with the collagen.
So people that are going to drink a cup of coffee with our college and have their multi,
you know, their vitamin C right there with them and they get the best of both worlds.
Let's go.
So that one's rolling out real soon.
We are rolling into the creatine monohydrate space.
I will let that cat out of the bag.
I am super fired up about that because the science behind creatine is just phenomenal.
And you know, this is doing your research, right?
Like I come to realize there's 10 companies that produce a high end creatine monohydrate.
Nine of them are in China.
One of them is not guess which one we're going to be buying from.
Thorne.
Well, no, I can't buy from those guys, but you can bet that they're smart about that
too.
But no, I mean, I'm going to go out and I'm going to buy the absolute best creatine monohydrate
that you can get.
I'm going to make sure it is lab tested, third party certified.
It'll be NSF for sport.
It'll be everything you want it to be in a phenomenal product.
And that's just our approach on doing it, man.
If you're going to get out there and throw something on there, do it right.
We have an electrolyte that we launched.
It didn't work terribly well.
Actually, I should say that differently.
It worked really well, but the flavor was super polarizing.
It was a very, very natural product derived from organic evaporated coconut water.
So we're reintroducing this product, our electrolytes, Bubbs Hydrator Dye, and we're doing it with
all ingredients made in the USA.
So literally, chloride, sodium, potassium, magnesium, organic cane sugar, all from the
USA.
Everything domestic, built in the USA, farmed in the USA, packaged in the USA.
And I can't be more fired up about that one and tastes delicious.
And we're talking like functional nutrition from quality sourcing, third party tested,
and just it makes a difference, man.
If you can't tell, that geeky stuff gets me fired up.
With the creatine, I know one of the issues people have, and I would assume more so in
the lower quality one, is GI distress.
What's the science behind reducing that for people in the higher quality ones?
So it's interesting.
I just heard that so anecdotally, and I assume that that's in the refinement.
The one that we're going to be sourcing from is 100% plant-based, which is an interesting
take on creatine.
And we've obviously been testing it and dabbling with it ourselves.
We've received nothing on that front.
But I think it's take a look at your reviews and what you can do.
I can tell you that when it is plant-based and refined like that, I would say you're
not supposed to have any issues.
But there's always that 1% or 2% out there that are just going to have some trouble with
most anything.
I mean, heck, there are some folks that have problems with collagen, and that's one of
the easiest proteins to ingest.
But hey, there's some finicky stomachs out there.
Yeah, absolutely.
All right, well, I want to transition to some closing questions before I let you go if you've
got time.
I got time.
So let's go to the closing questions.
Let's see if I got any good answers for you.
All right.
The first one is, is there a book or are there books that you love to recommend?
It can be related to our conversation today, which would be quite rare.
It's been quite a specific conversation or completely unrelated.
Are you open for visual aid on this one?
Absolutely.
All right.
Give me one quick second.
Yeah, take your time.
All right, you're going to have to edit that out, that little block right there, but I'm
sure you got the technology for it.
I do.
Right here.
The Comfort Crisis.
Michael Easter, The Comfort Crisis.
I can't recommend it enough for folks that are just entering into their midlife or even
earlier than midlife that are just seeing a little bit of complacency out there and
an opportunity to really take a look around and see what you're made of.
I absolutely recommend this book.
Yeah, I had that.
I had Michael on probably a couple of years ago now, but yeah, it was an amazing conversation.
He's a phenomenal human.
I've gotten to meet him also through the GoRuck cadre, through Jason and his team, and he's
just a hell of a nice guy.
I can't wait to see what book he writes next.
Absolutely.
All right, well, the next question, is there a film or documentary or films and documentaries
that you love?
The Snowboarder and Me really like Shaun White's piece.
I thought that was a really good piece of human, just stickiness, if you will.
I don't remember the name of it.
There's a phenomenal sports documentary that talks about this kind of culture shift in
children, training for sports.
It was like Wayne Gretzky, Jerry Rice, some just all-time legendary sports people really
talking about how when they came up in sport, they just played stick and ball sports out
in the parking lot and they just weren't as hyper-focused and trained.
There's a great message in there to basically just let your kids go out and have fun.
Don't get them so focused on their sports that they lose all sense of fun.
Let kids be kids.
I wish I knew the name of it.
I'm sorry I don't, but those are two for you.
We'll get it in the show notes.
Yeah, absolutely.
If you remember, send it to me because I had this conversation with some of the people
that were elite athletes when they were kids and then some of the strength and conditioning
coaches and PTs and all these other areas coming from the UK, at least the generation
that I grew up in and I'm 50 now, so it might be a little bit different, but we played everything
and no one was really playing at a high, high level.
You had rugby and cricket and football and all these things, but unless you were being
groomed to go play for Manchester or Liverpool one day, the rest of you were just playing
other schools.
What I saw is that when you left school, you carried on playing sports.
You had guys in their 40s and 50s that were playing pub leagues and local leagues and
all these things.
Then I moved to the States and I keep meeting these uncle Ricos, these 30-ish year old dudes,
totally deconditions to telling me that they were going to be in the NFL, the NBA, whatever
it was, if it wasn't for my ACL, my slap tear, et cetera, et cetera.
I started wondering what are we doing to young athletes here because we're literally destroying
their ability to enjoy sport as an adult.
You see this elite forged performance, but more often than not, the detriment of their
longevity.
It is a massive industry.
The film is called In Search of Greatness.
Perfect.
Thank you.
In Search of Greatness.
It came out in 2018 or something like that, right around there.
It was six years ago, but it really jumped out at me where I was like, wow.
I remember it was like Pele was in it too.
These guys were just talking about like, hey, man, we used to just play soccer in the back
alleys and it was fun.
They were talking about how it's gotten more and more serious and hyper-focused and hyper-laser
trained in.
There's something about just going out and having a good time that balances that out
and the greats are going to be great.
Anyways, it's a really cool look at sport.
As a dad who's got a young son who's good at baseball, I'm always now more cognizant
than ever about like, hey man, don't get them too burned out, but go to your practice, honor
your commitments.
I don't need them in an extra 10 hours a week of baseball grind at nine years old.
Good film.
Next question though.
I'm glad I remembered that.
All right.
Well the next one, is there a person that you recommend to come on this podcast as a
guest to speak to the first responders, military and associated professions of the world?
Well, it's funny.
You mentioned a few of them.
I'm guessing they've all already been guests, but Ryan Parrott, Jeff Nichols, Mike Ritland,
Clint Emerson, Jason McCarthy, Michael Easter, 100%.
Chris Smith.
I don't know if you've ever had Chris Smith on.
One of my dear, dear friends, another former Navy SEAL lives in Washington DC.
He owns CrossFit Trident out of Alexandria in Virginia.
Shane Hyatt, if you want just a massive pile of F-bombs and unconventional stories.
Tons of just amazing people that I've had great experiences with.
Mark Devine.
I mean, the guy has lived a really inspiring existence in his post-naval career, inspiring
thousands of individuals to really dig into themselves and see what they're made of.
Yeah, I mean, I could keep going, but I think that's a good list for you.
Yeah.
No, it's funny because most of them have been on.
That shows me how long I've been on.
Even Mark Devine.
I think he was one of my very first guests, like certainly in the first 20 or so, I think.
But yeah, Clint and Mike and all these other ones, but not Chris or Shane.
So maybe that would be the next.
Derek Price, former NFL.
I believe he was a tight end and also longtime coach with Mark Devine.
But hell of a stud athlete.
Derek Price has got a phenomenal story.
Brilliant.
Well, I appreciate that.
All right.
Well, then the last question before we make sure everyone knows where to find you, where
to find Bubs.
What do you do to decompress these days?
Time with the kids and my wife is really key.
There's this huge unplug I get to go and I walk in the door every day.
My wife likes me home by five.
I'm routinely home by 5.15.
I'm always late.
I try and have dinner on the table by six, but like, because I do a lot of the cooking
in the house and I love cooking, but that is part of my decompress is putting the phone
down as I walk in the door, flipping that switch off to put the day's work behind me
and really dive into what my six year old daughter wants to talk about.
What my wife had, you know, went through during her, the course of her day, what we're going
to eat for dinner.
We did this little ritual called roses and thorns about the one great thing that happened
and the one bad thing that happened during the day that everyone in the family gets to
talk about stuff.
I never would have thought I would do in a million years.
You'd asked me that 10 years ago and it decompresses me.
It pulls me down to kind of shift into like what's really important, which is your family.
It's your friends.
It's those that community that we surround ourselves with.
And it doesn't take much other than effort because I could stay on the phone.
I could still be texting.
I could like, you know, still doing that, but it takes an effort to really just be like,
Nope, I'm drawing a line.
That's all going to be there.
It's going to be waiting for me.
As soon as the kids are asleep, I can go right back to it.
But reading my books to the kids, like we're reading the wild robot series and my kids
are just an absolute, like just listeners of these stories and having that 30 minute
wind down with them at the end of the night is just epic.
So that's how you decompress.
You know, a lot more.
I like still beating the crap out of my body with fitness and sprinkling a little meditation
and get healthy habits.
But yeah, man, when I, when I get done from a full, full day by 5pm, I just put it all
down.
That is what I'm trying to get a lot of the fire service to really take a step back and
reevaluate.
You know, we chase like you're talking about, you know, what's the living wage is, it's
usually money.
And the ultimate currency is your time at home.
Like how you forge kind, compassionate, confident boys and girls is you're there, you parent
and allowing these agencies and the mismanagement to tell you, you can't go home or your work
week is this long.
You know, I'm trying to light a fire and I was like, remember what is most important.
How many bedtime stories have you missed because of someone else's decisions?
You know, so I think I couldn't agree more.
Like I pulled myself into my son.
I transitioned out the fire service six, six and a half years ago now.
And that was a big part of it.
If it wasn't going to change where I was at, I'm going to remove myself, fight from the
outside and be present every night.
But yeah, I mean, there is no stronger currency than being present with your family in my
opinion.
Fact, it's an amazing way to like gain perspective, like all the stresses that we have, you know,
obviously I'm in a unique role, not unique.
We all work.
We all have stresses.
We all are worried about different things at different times.
And we all want to produce a great product.
Like who doesn't?
And you got to know what it's for though.
And you know, it's not a mass wealth and buy the second house.
I mean, sure, that can be a part of it, but no, man, it's raise great humans, be plugged
in, be in love, be, you know, loving and, and instill that on that next generation and
still it on your wife, on your husband, like whatever, you know, wherever you're at, like
just, I don't know, be in it all in it.
100%.
All right.
Well then for people listening, where are the best places to either find you and reach
out to you or to find bubs and, you know, purchase the products and learn more about
them.
Yeah.
So, so me, like I'm on Instagram every once in a blue moon Facebook, and I just go by
Slaco S L A K E O.
I think more importantly is bubs naturals, which is just like it sounds B U B S N A T
U R A L S. So at bubs naturals for, you know, whether it's Tik Tok, Instagram, LinkedIn,
you name it, Facebook, all the metaverse where we're on there and we're super active on the
socials cause you kind of gotta be these days.
And you know, you can always find us on Amazon or Amazon prime or Amazon's choice or Amazon's
favorite, which is always great.
And in our website, which is just bubs naturals.com and yeah, come over and check us out, ask
questions where we're here to answer them and help you on your wellness journey, man.
That's what it's all about is we all want to be in this for the long haul.
We've got this funny expression.
We like saying die young as late as possible and I'm all about it.
Absolutely.
Well, I want to thank you so much mate for coming back on.
I mean, firstly, like I said, genuinely, you know, the products are phenomenal and that's
another entire side of the conversation, but also picking up the torch and fighting for
your best friend and you know, the pursuit of simply doing the right thing and helping
other people realize that is that the path that needs to be taken.
There are so many parallels, I'm sure for people listening in their organizations as
well.
Not only the fact that we now learned a lot more about a man who literally gave his life
for this country.
So I want to thank you so, so much for being so generous with your time once again and
coming on the behind the shield podcast.
James, thank you for having me, man.
It's always an honor and I love our conversations.
I appreciate you.
Thank you.