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Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast. As always, my name is James Gearing and this week it is my absolute honor to welcome on the show,
Army veteran, the first amputee Green Beret sniper, and a man who was born on the 4th of July, John Wayne Welding.
Now in this conversation we discuss a host of topics. From his own journey into the military, his path to becoming a Green Beret,
the battle of Shock Valley, the importance of spirituality in his life, overcoming injury, his powerful mental health story,
how he's now helping veterans transition into the commercial space, and so much more.
Now before we get to this incredible conversation, as I say every week, please just take a moment.
Go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback, and leave a rating.
Every single five star rating truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making it easier for others to find.
And this is a free library of well over 1,000 episodes now, so all I ask in return is that you help share these incredible men and women stories
so I can get them to every single person on planet Earth who needs to hear them.
So with that being said, I introduce to you John Wayne Welding. Enjoy.
Well John Wayne, I want to start by saying two things. Firstly, thank you to whoever it was that connected us.
We were trying to remember before we hit record. I think it might have been Ryan Parrott, but it might have been someone else as well in the same network.
So thank you to them. And then secondly, to welcome you onto the Behind the Shield podcast today.
Thanks for having me, James. It's going to be a great conversation and looking forward to it.
Absolutely. So first question, where on planet Earth are we finding you today?
Well, you find me in my home in the world famous Gunner, Texas, which is 1,400 people and we just got our first stoplight, so we're doing good.
But yeah, it's north of Dallas. That's where I live.
Fantastic. All right. Well, I would love to start at the very beginning of your story.
So tell me where you were born and tell me a little bit about your family dynamic, what your parents did, how many siblings.
Yeah, I'm actually glad you brought that up, right, because I always tell everybody don't believe my resume, right, because it's awesome.
Right. When you start reading it, you see all that. But what it doesn't say is is really the question you ask is is it's not where you are today is.
But where did you start? Right. Where did you come from? And and I jokingly usually say that I'm 100 percent Texan, right?
Because my mom was Mexican and my dad was a roughneck. Right. So oil and tacos. That's that's that's what I grew up on.
But I was born in Victoria, Texas, which is South Texas, you know, just southeast of our southwest, rather, of Houston and in little town of Victoria.
Like I said, mom's Mexican. My dad was roughneck. And, you know, unfortunately, I wasn't raised by them.
Right. The first memory of my dad, you know, this isn't being figurative.
I really have meditated and tried to recount the first memory of my dad.
And it was me being in the backseat of my grandmother's town car in Victoria.
And we had to stop. We were in the courthouse parking lot.
And we had to stop because there was convicts chained together wearing that, you know, very famous orange jumpsuit that we all know.
And when we had to stop to let them pass, well, my dad was one of them. Right.
He was going from county lock up to the courthouse to get sentenced to jail. You know, and my mom, she was already in jail.
Right. I always say my kids, my sorry, my parents, they weren't bad people. They were just bad parents. Right.
They loved to have fun and loved it so much that they couldn't not live for themselves.
And they were hippies, man. They loved to smoke pot and do that stuff and have fun.
And that's ultimately what got them. And so I went to that kid.
I mean, I had to have been five years old maybe and started to live with my grandparents, you know, on my father's side.
Right. And so I jokingly say I was raised by the white side. That's why I talk like a redneck.
But, you know, that wasn't in Victoria. You know, my grandfather had just retired actually and had a lake house up outside Grosbeck.
So Grosbeck, Texas is where I was raised. That was 40 miles east of Waco.
And so, again, that little kid that comes from Victoria up there, these parents that, you know, you didn't really know that well.
And but, you know, I thank God every day for it because, you know, it brought me people that could love me and give me a place to to grow and really come to my own.
And that's where I stayed through high school. Right. So, you know, for the name like John Wayne Walding, right.
I was born on the Fourth of July and I'm a Green Beret from Grosbeck, Texas. Right.
It didn't get much more American than that. And it really is, you know, Grosbeck is really one of those small, you know, quintessential Texas towns that, you know, again, had one stoplight, loves football, you know, and it closes down whenever the guys are playing.
Right. And to put that into perspective, to show that to be true, you know, we had AstroTurf and I believe it was 1990.
Right. So think about when Turf Fur happened, you know, we a town, 3500 people, you know, we had all this money at one point.
And what we do with that money? No, we didn't build a park. We didn't build, you know, all this other stuff. We built a football field.
And and we won, you know, State 91 to kind of show the significance of that. But that's really, you know, growing up in the outdoors.
You know, my first memories of my grandfather is being in a deer stand hunting with him, fishing. Obviously, we lived on the lake fishing with him and and working hay and just that, you know, hard, you know, hard knocks life of working on and farming out in Texas.
And, you know, that led me to graduate in 1999 and and joined the military soon after that. Right. And and I wish I had a better story to say, hey, what a guy by the name of John Wayne joined the army.
Right. But the reality is, you know, I just turned 20 and I'm like, man, you know what? I need a real job.
And I'm like, I'm not a kid anymore. I'm sitting there, you know, working paycheck to paycheck. And, you know, I didn't join because I had a full ride to Harvard. Right.
I joined because I mean, I really want one day and I wanted something that meant more like make no mistake about it.
But people forget these small towns, man. They're not this this aspirational place. Right. You can go and do anything. It's a very practical, realistic.
Hey, man, you know, you don't get up and go to fun. You get up and go to work. Right.
And that's just a mindset that my grandfather had being raised in the Great Depression and in just that hard life that he lived.
And that's the mindset that I grew up with. It wasn't a oh, man, you can go be an astronaut if you put your mind to it.
No, it's like what are you going to do today to pay for yourself? Right. And at 20, the military was the best avenue that I thought would fulfill that in the meaning. Right.
I do love this country and what it stands for and was excited to serve. And I didn't realize I was pretty good at it until I got in there.
You know, the the recruiter, I always say the recruiter got me not because he, you know, you know, he lied to me and get in there.
But he came in. He's like, hey, man, you know, whenever I walked in, you know, again, shows you my mindset. Right.
Whenever I commit to something, here's how much I commit. So my birthday is July 4th.
And I realized, OK, I need to have a real job by August 16th. I was in the army like in basic training, not figuring it out, but in there.
And when I went to the recruiter's office, he's like, hey, man, you want to shoot missiles? I'm like, heck yeah.
Who don't? You know, and so, yeah, he got me in there and he got me quick.
We'll go in all the way back to your parents.
One of the interesting things I think is probably woefully under discussed when it comes to first responder and military mental health is how many of us have struggles in our early lives.
And, you know, arguably that more often than not sends us into service. There's that kind of, you know, subcontext of, you know, being maybe hurt or feeling like why wasn't I good enough for my parents to stay or stop drinking?
And that sends you into that, you know, partly to be a protector, partly maybe to prove to yourself that you're good enough, that you're strong enough, that you're tough enough.
But, you know, when you when you kind of reverse engineer, it goes back generation to generation. So you were born into a man and a woman who both struggled with their own mental health, which obviously led them into incarceration.
When you look with this wise 2025 lens, what were some of the contributing factors to your parents' struggles?
I think it was for sure there was a substance abuse issues or, you know, knowing to your point, the brain that I have now, I really understand the and I don't think our culture does, James, the understand the significance of how alcohol and drugs affects your brain, right?
At the cellular level, right? You do stop growing when you're drinking, right? Your brain literally does, right?
And there are, in fact, I was just listening to a gentleman talk, you know, about the huge effects of opioids and what they do.
That if you stopped, like today, if I had substance abuse issues with opioids and I just stopped cold turkey, it would take over 18 months for my brain to repair, right?
Which is why those that do try to go cold turkey, only 7% are successful, right?
And so I think that was the contributing factor to my parents is, you know, there was the recreational drugs that they did back in the day that just didn't allow them to grow up.
And unfortunately, when you don't grow up, you don't realize that there are, you know, severe sometimes, right? Severe consequences to your actions.
And that's what led them to be in jail.
As they move forward, were either of them able to navigate out of that as they progressed through their lives?
Never. You know, unfortunately, you know, my father, again, man, my father is a perfect example of the opioid epidemic that we have.
Yeah, he was in jail for, you know, pot and stuff like that. But when he got out, he tried to do better, right? Was a mechanic in those things.
But I never will forget, you know, this was probably mid 80s at this point, you know, he had back surgery.
You know, what happens when you have surgery, right? They give you pills.
And, you know, I don't know specifically what he was on, but we can be pretty confident that it's an opioid that they gave to to help it.
And James, I never he never got off of him. Like, quite literally the day he died, you know, and to your point about, you know,
first responders and servicemen and women, you know, there is that that family hurt that drives them to be that.
Well, I know firsthand what it's like to see my dad just sitting in a bed, you know, with a cigarette like this, you know, hunched over, falling asleep and the cigarette ash just falling.
He's burning in his thing. You know, that that's my dad. Right. I'm his legacy. I know that bloods in me.
And I realize, no, that's not going to be me. Right. That's what the statement that drove me so much is like, I'm not going to be that guy that my kids are going to see hunched over with cigarettes falling in his blanket.
All the conversations I've had, so many people have had some pretty horrific upbringings, you know, sexual abuse and all kinds of things. And I found that so much more than I realized was actually there in military members, first responders, that growing up around alcoholism and abuse and gangs and violence and sexual abuse.
But the the reason why we were talking is unlike someone who found themselves incarcerated and maybe overdose in fentanyl, you know, the tragic route there more often than not was a mentor or a handful of mentors that kind of stepped in, you know, where there was that parental void.
You've talked funnily about your grandfather as you progress through the high school years. Who were some of the other people that fit that mold, if any?
Yeah, for sure. It was my grandparents to start off right. The way I at a high level, you know, talk about my parents and grandparents is that, you know, my parents showed me what wrong looks like.
And my grandparents showed me what right looks like, you know, and by the way, there's probably more value in what my parents showed me.
Right. Knowing what rock is because, you know, that's a driving factor of my mother. You know, you know, I have frankly always had a trouble, not always, but at a young age with with, you know, having a very godly, mature relationship with women because I was always, you know, chasing the love of a woman because my mama didn't love me.
Right. She left and never came back and she'd tell me that, oh, miho, I love you. And then all this stuff. But she was never there. When she was in jail, she'd write letters and, you know, all the all the things she'd give me everything but her, right.
Everything but her time. And so anyway, to answer your question, you know, after that, going, graduating, unfortunately, I really didn't have those in Grosbeck and around Grosbeck. You know, it's a one horse town, right.
That there's not a lot of, like I said earlier, aspirational people there. It's just a very drink beer, ride back roads, go to work, get paycheck type thing. And by the grace of God, like I said, when I turned 20, I realized, OK, this is enough.
I guess there is a guy, you know, Clayton Loper, he joined the Army and he was at home on leave for the fourth, right. My birthday is the fourth of July and he was at home. We were talking and he was telling me, you know, kind of what he was doing.
And that's whenever I realized I needed a real job. And I said, well, heck, if Clayton can do it, surely I can do it. Right. And so that's what led me into the military.
And obviously from the military, I had, you know, people that, you know, that I never really had what you would call like a mentor. Somebody kind of looked me in the eyes and say, hey, what's your purpose? Right.
Or, you know, hey, man, check it out. This is what we need to be doing. But, you know, I would have either a platoon sergeant or someone that I said, OK, that guy doesn't suck. Right.
Let me try to do what he's doing. And and really it wasn't until I got into special forces that really I found those guys that, you know, I very much looked up to.
Prior to enlisting when you were in the school age, what were you playing and doing as far as sports and exercise?
Yeah, Grosbeck didn't have a big selection. Right. So it was kind of the big four. Right. Football, basketball, track and tennis really, you know, was really what the so I think you're one plant tennis.
But I played football, baseball and I ran track stuff to keep me busy. And it was funny because I forgot what place I got a district in the mile.
And it was like, man, you're fast. You run a sub five minute mile. Like, yeah, because I hate running. I want to quit. You know, but I loved I love football, love baseball and and really, you know, I never will forget.
I'm one of it was George Bush, 43, his book, The Decision Points. I never forget looking at the first chapter and the first chapter was quitting.
You know, and it was about him quitting alcohol, which I did, too. But and we can obviously get into that later.
But I always that chapter really rang with me because one of the most significant, you know, memories that I have in my childhood was that drove me through my adult life, which is what's got me the crazy places where I am today.
I'm a
And I knew I quit football because I was selfish. You know, I never will forget walking out of that locker room.
You know, it was my senior year walking out and I knew I just wanted to party. And that's the reason why I knew I was wrong.
Right. And I never really had had that feeling up to that point. You know, even, you know, drinking at early age and partying at early age and doing things that were wrong.
But everybody was doing it. And there was, you know, I wasn't really I was a fun guy, not a fight guy. Right.
And so, like, I never was breaking the law from that perspective of breaking into stuff.
But, yeah, walking out of there, I realized that, I mean, you're you shouldn't be doing this. You should have more courage and stick with it.
And that's why, you know, going through the selection process to become a, you know, special forces quitting wasn't even an option.
Just never even thought about it. Well, walk me through your enlistment then.
Like you said, you went into the regular army. If I'm not mistaken, that wasn't too long prior to 9-11. So what was your kind of basic like and then how did that event change things and what did it even look like through your eyes on that day?
Yeah, man, talk about, you know, major milestone, you know, memories. Try being in basic training on 9-11 when the towers fell.
Right. So August 16th, I started basic. Well, September 11th, we were doing, oh, man, what was it? Hand-to-hand combat. That's what we were doing.
And so, right, we had little poojie sticks out and we were doing all that. I never will forget. I thought it was a drill, right?
Because they shut all training down or drill sergeants came in. You know, we just had a terrorist attack, man.
We're going to war and all that good stuff. And everybody's looking around like, OK, you know, this is a game, right?
What are we supposed to do to get you ready for war? And will they bring us back into the auditorium?
They've got a TV playing. You could see the tower smoking. I'm looking at my friends like, man, this is like some Hollywood type, you know, thing that they got going on here.
And obviously, it wasn't too much longer after that that we realized that this this was a significant turning point, not only in our lives, but the country and in the world.
And and and kind of so my job at that point was a I was an air defense, right?
Shooting missiles and you know, you realize very quickly that that is not near as cool as what he thought it was going to be.
And so I did the initial invasion of Iraq as an air defense operator, shooting the Patriot missile, you know, and ran in a couple of Brits from the Royal Marines at the at the border.
That was pretty awesome. I was like, man, how you have liquor at this point? We ain't supposed to have that.
The British, you know, but yeah, you know, going through the initial invasion of Iraq and some of the things, you know, as a 21 at this time, right?
That year old kid, it was so sorry, 22 year old kid. It was so surreal to always tell the story about, you know, I think it was March 19th, March 20th or something when the actual kickoff was, you know,
but the day before, just being south of the Iraqi border in Kuwait, you know, I was sitting on my home V, you know, like I was like on the hood, right?
With my back on the windshield, you know, it was nighttime because we were waiting.
You know, we were staging up the night before, you know, we had helicopters over here that were refueling and we had night vision on.
You could see that, you know, where it was my first time seeing, you know, the helicopters in night vision where it looks like a chem lights at the end of the rotor, right?
So I'm thinking this is like Star Wars or get a redneck from Grosbeck, right? Here I am doing that. I'm eating a chicken with salsa MRE, you know, and then I never will forget looking up and it was, you know, a Tomahawk or cruise missile coming right over my head, you know, to bomb Basra, right?
To soft the target before we go through. And again, that little, you know, kid from nothing to seeing, you know, what war is. It was one of those moments that I'll never forget in my life.
And then obviously turn the trucks on, we start heading north. I don't think I turned my truck off for three days, right?
So imagine what that was like to just, you never stopped, right? Going from one checkpoint to the next, you know, there were a couple memories that stood out with me.
One was as we were going through, like through, you know, oh shoot, UNCASAR through to Lille and all that.
I never will forget that, you know, obviously Iraq is they don't speak English. They really don't know who they are.
But as we were going through, you know, they have a smile on their face, giving us a thumbs up saying, go Bush, Bush friend.
You know, so again, I'm like, how the heck y'all even know who that guy is?
But yeah, and then obviously, you know, go all the way up to Baghdad.
And, and, and, and fortunately for me, you know, we were the air threat, you know, resistance, right?
In case of weapons of mass destruction and, and, you know, there was another thing that I always like to tell if you want to know what it was like during the early time.
You know, communication was the biggest challenge that we faced going through the initial invasion of Iraq.
There isn't a word to clearly articulate just how big the, the, the Department of Defense is, right?
Well, globally, right? Not, not just us, but everyone.
And as, as a kid has never left the country before.
Now here I am in, in Kuwait and it's imagine like seeing, you know, New York City, Chicago, LA, whatever large city you want to say, but every vehicle is a military vehicle.
Right? Everywhere you look around is, is a military vehicle. That's how large that it was. Right?
And just knowing that, or, you know, as that whole force is going forward, we're obviously talking to each other is something that's not going to happen.
Right? Different radio freaks, all the stuff that, that y'all know that have to happen.
And I never will forget so many times, you know, we'd go through a checkpoint and the Marines, their eyes would be big, like, man, we haven't even cleared this area.
Where'd y'all come from? You're like, well, it's clear. Right? You know, no bombs or nothing there.
And, and, and another thing would be we would go through, we are not go through, but we would pass a convoy or a convoy would pass us as we're at a checkpoint.
And they'd be all gas mashed up right in Mott four. Right.
Just like, you know, and we're here slick breathing in, like, did we not get the memo that weapons of mass destruction?
We didn't know if he had dropped a bomb and we didn't see it. And so there's just, yeah, it was a crazy time.
There's a question I always ask people when I deployed and we'll kind of aim it at this particular invasion and then we'll circle around in Afghanistan.
But it's a two part question. And the reason I ask it is if you are a civilian in the U.S. especially, you get a very polarized view of war, either kill them all, let God sort them out, stack the bodies or they're all baby killers.
And in the middle are the real normal human beings that we send with our flag on their shoulder to go, you know, fight for, you know, our country and protect these people in another country.
Right. We all know, obviously, about the atrocities that Saddam and his sons did and his government.
Was there a moment where this young boy from Texas had a realization or witnessed things where you realize, OK, there are some horrible people in this country that need to be taken care of?
Because obviously, in response to 9-11, especially, it was a different country that was attached to those terrorists.
For sure. You know, I don't always like to get, I don't rather get political when it comes to especially in hindsight.
Right. When in hindsight, you can always say whether or not this was the right, wrong or indifferent to be there.
But to your, you know, kind of the point of your question, right. Every village wherever went in, I saw a little girl say thank you.
Right. I did see, you know, a guy that was evil, you know, and was oppressing a village to liberate that village.
Right. So was that good? Absolutely. Am I going to try to validate that, you know, we were lied to? For sure we were lied to.
Right. Am I going to try to say that we absolutely were right for being there? All that stuff.
You know, that's not for me. That, you know, first of all, the arrogance that us as humans think that we're in charge anyway, God's in charge, you know, to think that we have something to do with it.
But I, that's kind of how I conceptualize things. Obviously, you know, as private Walding, I don't have any influence on what the national security's, you know, strategic goals going to be.
Right. I'm just there for the God of my left and right.
But yes, to your point, we did see guys that were bad and I did feel at the time that we were right for doing it.
So the other side is we also don't hear about the kindness and compassion on the media that happens, you know, amongst these combat zones.
So when you reflect to that portion of your military career, what were some moments of kindness and compassion, whether it was the indigenous people or your fellow soldiers?
Well, I think you phrased it well, right, that people think, you know, Vietnam would be a perfect example where they were called baby killers and this and that.
But I think one thing that the civilian populace really doesn't, and frankly, more so with first responders, law enforcement specifically, right.
But generally speaking, even with us, it's the restraint, right.
There's a level of restraint that our service men and women show when they're downrange that people couldn't even hardly, you know, contemplate and understand.
Right. First of all, you're there. You don't know who's going to shoot at you, right, because there's no uniform military.
Right. So this person that's a fighting age male or woman or kid.
Right. We all know that that that evils there regardless. And so every single person that we go interact with, we write out the gate, show that compassion and restraint.
And there's times that people have died because of the restraint that we've shown.
And so that's one thing that I always try to highlight is just a good that we do and the restraint that we show and ultimately, you know, the compassion that comes from that. Absolutely.
Well, then walk me through what made you decide to go through selection then.
Yeah. So my first interaction with with special forces was a very quick one.
It was in Iraq. I never will forget, you know, because obviously, you know, moving a Patriot missile, you're not going to do it 60 miles an hour.
Right. And you have an entire village of supporting elements with that big missile right from the actual missile cell, the launcher, the radar, the fire engagement concern, then obviously all the people that come with that.
And so we have, you know, a convoy moving about 25 miles an hour that lasts about two miles long. And I never was that night when we were moving.
Well, there was an SF team that passed us going 60 miles an hour under night vision, standing on the outside. And I just looked and I saw that like, what was that guy?
You know, and interacting with them very briefly was kind of my first.
Again, I wish I had a better story of, you know, John Wayne born on the fourth again that I had this lineage of military people in the army or family people in the army.
But that's not the case. The case is, you know, my family was in the oil field. My granddaddy grew up doing it. My dad did it until he didn't want to work anymore.
And so I didn't really know all the jobs in the army. And so that was my first one. And then whenever I got back to the back to Fort Bliss, you know, that's when I realized, OK, if I'm going to do this, I'm not going to be with these people.
Right. Because there's nothing that shows people their true colors more than going to combat with them. Right. And I realize all these, you know, who have people that they're supposed to be hardcore. You realize they're not.
They're not at all. And I had to. Fortunately, God gave me the foresight at the time to really understand that this is not going to be a quick war.
Right. That we're going to keep going back. This is something we're going to keep doing. And man, if I'm going to do this, I'm going to be with the best. And that's what got me to ultimately go to selection.
First of all, I reenlisted to a job that got me in at Fort Bragg and within I'm not going to I mean, three months of showing up at Fort Bragg and seeing a guy in a green beret and all that. And I just told my wife at the time, I said, you know, I have the same wife at the time.
I showed my wife. But I told my wife that, babe, I got to try. Right. Knowing me, I can't just keep working here and being a support element and not try. And I, you know, again, within probably 45 days of I never will forget my platoon.
Starting to times like, man, you're already going to selection. You really are in process. I mean, you know, I got to figure out how to do it right. And so it was it was. Yeah, yeah, it was definitely one of the craziest times in my life of going, seeing those guys and then going into a special forces assessment and selection.
And it was when did I go? It was I know Monday Night Football was on and it was raining whenever we were outside doing our what do you call it? Our inventory.
When you look back, I mean, you talked about, you know, walking out of the the football locker room and saying you're never going to quit again. You talked about growing up on a farm, which I did, which I think definitely fosters resilience as well. What were the factors that allowed you to be successful in selection when so many people rang the bell?
Um, with me, I think one of the big factors that I bring to the table is, you know, I always jokingly say my superpower is I'm too dumb to not know I ain't supposed to try that.
Right. Right. And what I mean by that is I don't overthink things. Right. I don't say I want to be a green beret and see all of this that comes with that of getting there. Does that make sense? And so all I do is just get the moment and do the best that I can.
Right. And that's really what what I did through those 25 days was, you know, I tell guys when they ask me, you know, what they're either trying out or want to try out or thinking of and all that things. And they say, what's the advice? I'm like, look, it sucks.
You know, it sucks real bad, but you can do it. And the only advice that I can give you is I did everything they told me to do as hard as I could. You know, and I didn't try to war game it right. I didn't try. Well, we did a long run this time. So this one's got to be a short run or you know, I just I played the game.
And I went in there with and everything they told me to do. I did as hard as I could. And going back to quitting, I just quitting never even got in my head that, you know, it was an option. So then walk me through when you deployed, you know, in under the SF flag now, the difference between a two mile convoy, you know, babysitting a missile to the uptempo that you had in that new role.
Yeah, you know, you know, I always like to tell everybody like to put things into perspective, right? If you don't know. So to be, you know, to become SF, you go through that 25 days selection process. And there's about, I don't know, 360 to 400 that start selection. And at the end of those 25 days, there are probably there are definitely less than 100 that we're standing right now to those 100 only about half were selected.
Right. So realistically, maybe 40, you know, out of those that that were standing there last day were test to start to school. And then again, another half fell out whether getting hurt or just whatever, you know, so really about, you know, 15 to 20 out of those 400, you know, get to dawn that coveted green beret. And then that's to start, you know, or then that's to start going to war. Right.
And, and for me, again, not knowing, you know, really much. I got to the first team. And that's whenever I met, you know, the first Spartans, right, that that's whenever I realized, you know, the, the, the tip of the spear, what that term really means in the flesh, right, these men that, you know, it's all about the brotherhood.
It's all about the mission. Right. It's all about being the best. It's all I care about. We don't care who you are, where you come from, who your daddy is, how much money to make. Are you going to add value to the team? Are you going to be the best you can be? And it was very no nonsense, you know, type place.
It was a very, you know, check your feelings at the door type place. It was a, it was just one of those places, man, that, that I was just so fortunate, almost in all, where they say like earn your, earn your tab daily. Right.
You don't just show up and say, I've arrived is every single day. What are you doing to earn that tab? And, and, you know, because of when it, so this was 2007 at the time and immediately.
I think I graduated in the summer and I was already deployed by October. Right. Think about that. And so we went down range. We did it quick.
So what was the difference between Iraq and Afghanistan? The same kind of two questions that I asked you. What, what were you witnessing now? A different culture, a lot more tribal, you know, what was some of the, the, I mean, I don't know if atrocities are even the right word, but some of that evil that you're witnessing in that conflict.
Definitely. I would say Iraq or Afghanistan was Iraq, you know, on steroids in the right word, but definitely, you know, it got more Western to use a Texas term.
Right. Meaning it was, you know, always tell everybody like it was so to your point, tribal.
It is like stepping back in time.
Right. Not, not just decades, but centuries, you know, that, that the, the villages that we were, you know, we found ourselves in, they didn't have running water.
Right. They didn't have sewage. They didn't have plumbing.
You know, they didn't have doors, but they'd have an oil burning lamp.
They'd have a cell phone and then they have an AK 47. Right. And that's, that's the technologies that they knew. That's the technologies that they use. And with going back in time, you know, when evil does that, it was definitely to a whole nother level.
Right. The definitely saw the, you know, the education was so much less than, you know, than what Iraq was, you know, the ignorance was there, you know, to put it in perspective, right.
To give an example, I tell everybody, you know, not only is it hard to go there and you don't speak the language and the culture is different, everything like that.
And you're trying to tell somebody that don't speak your language to, you know, take these three guys go to the right side of the building and wait or the east side of the building.
Well, imagine somebody that doesn't know math. Right. They can't add two plus two. They don't know right from left. They don't know how to read and you're giving them night vision.
You're getting them GPS. You're getting them lasers. Like it's, I mean, that is the education level was just something, you know, the, the, the difference between us and them was just astronomical.
So other side of the coin of that question, what about kindness and compassion in that country?
Yeah. Unfortunately, I didn't see a lot of that because, because we were just, you know, the missions that we were on.
We know I had the, the first operational candact of commandos, right. The Afghani commandos was the Afghan Special Forces. Right. They had a selection process, all the stuff that kind of like what we did.
And so we, since that unit had just been developed and implemented, we were like, you know, we had the shiny new toy. Right.
So we were doing a lot of work. It wasn't a mission to where we would sit in a fire base and every now and then go and do things.
You know, we had the air support that a lot of other, you know, Special Forces units wouldn't normally have.
And so, you know, our op tempo was quick. And so we were, you know, planning a mission to execute your mission, come back, refit, plan the mission, execute the mission, come back, refit.
And so, you know, one thing, kind of going back to, or near to what I said with Iraq, I did know that when we were getting these bad guys that the people there said, thank you.
Right. I do know that the people there cared about Americans helping them liberate Afghanistan. That is one thing that I can unequivocally say that, again, not, I don't care about the politics left or right, but I know God had us there doing good.
Well, speaking of God, prior to the Battle of Shock Valley, which we'll get to in a moment, talk to me about your journey and spirituality up to that point.
Yeah, I'm quoting my pastor because whenever he said it, it kind of resonated with me. Right. And I think it really speaks to a lot of Southerners, for sure.
But people in general, Christians in general, right. So the way that he puts it, and the way I'll put it to you is that my Christianity at the time was like
you telling me or me telling you that there is a New York football Giants football team, right. That's called the New York football Giants. I believe that. Right. I believe that there's a team, but I don't believe in them.
Right. I believe in the Dallas Cowboys. Right. Well, shoot, not this year.
But that's how I would frame my Christianity. For sure. I believe that God gave us Jesus to die for our sins. Right. I believe all the stuff. I believe that you should go to church. I believe that you should, you know, tie all the things.
I didn't have a relationship with Christ. And why was that up to that point when you reflect?
Reflecting back, I think it wasn't intentional. You know, the non-intention made it the intention, right. The intentionality of my time at that time for me was to be the best poor fighter I could be. Right. You know, I've learned, you know, in the 43 years of my life, right, that
what you put into something is what you're going to get out of it. Right. If you put all your effort into being an alcoholic, guess what? You're going to be awesome at being an alcoholic. If you put all your effort into being a green beret, guess what? You're going to be awesome.
And that's where I was all in. I was all in being the war fighter. Frankly, I thought that the time that my faith would weaken me, right, it would give me a sense of morality and compassion for these people that I didn't want or need. Right. That's the last thing, you know, that you want as a war fighter is when you got someone in your crosshairs to say, man, that's a child of God and an image bearer of God, just like I am. Right. No, you need to think he bad, me good, pull trigger, go.
And so that's where my faith was at the time.
Interesting. All right. Well, then let's walk through to April 6th, 2008.
Yes. So, you know, before April 6th, you know, again, we had a very high up tempo. We've gotten to know these guys very well. These guys being the commandos very well. You know, I always like to joke about, you know, we had some celebrities with this. We had a guy by the name of Muhammad Ali. Right. And then we'll forget reading, you know, the roster, you know, calling roll call.
Muhammad Ali. Where are you at, man? You know, little guy. I'm like, you have no idea, do you? But another guy, we named him Joe Pesci because he's a little short brown guy with a beard, looked just like Joe Pesci.
You know, and every time we come out there, you know, look at him like Joe Pesci, what's up? And he give me the thumbs up. John Wayne's, you know.
And so I tell those stories, you know, not just to be funny, but to really give you the, you know, the culture we had with them, the rapport that we had with them. We really did at this time. I mean, this was, you know, seven months into the deployment. Right.
And so we knew the guys, we knew it well. And so this mission, April 6th, 2008, was to kill capture Haji Kaffur. Right. He was the leader of the HIG at the time. And you know what the HIG was, you know, HIG, Taliban, Al Qaeda, Muslim Brotherhood, ISIS, you know, Muslim or radical extremists is what they were. Right.
And so what they would do is they would go into a gym mine, right, like Star Sapphires, Rubies, things of that nature, and they would take over. And that's what they would fund the HIG with. And he was a high value target that we had been wanting to get for a while.
And, but we never could get our eyes on him. And he wouldn't be there long enough for us to build that target packet to ever execute it. And finally, you know, it just got to a point toward the end of the mission where we just got, I'd say complacent, daring, you know, cavalier, you know, careless, because we, our commander didn't want to just go back home without him.
And so we did. And April 6th, and you know, to go through the mission, I always talk about what it was like that morning, right? Wake up four o'clock in the morning and go outside, you know, it's April 6th. So it's very cold in the morning up there in that mountains of Afghanistan.
You know, we were leaving from Jalalabad air base at the time, right? So being in J-Badger, I forget the altitude, but it's cold. And it was raining at the time.
So if you know, I'm sure you're familiar with rotary aircraft, right? Don't like to fly in the rain, especially if you're going up to 10,000 feet where, you know, this operation was going to be conducted.
You know, you get not only you're dealing with the elevation, but you're dealing with the ceiling cover, you're dealing with, you know, the everything else, right? And so we go not thinking we're going to go and, but got ready, we get in the helicopter.
And, you know, as we're stuck in this helicopter, we're literally waiting on the tarmac just for those, you know, the three words, right? Execute, execute, execute, right?
We're waiting to get the lift off and it's just a chaotic time. Chaotic because you're just frustrated. You're like, well, we're probably not going to go again.
You're frustrated because, you know, you don't, you didn't want to get dressed up for nothing, right? You know, you're sitting there, you're squinched in, it's cold, the aircraft shaking, you got your headset on, you're listening to the battlefield commander, you're listening to the pilot, the talk, to get all that real time update, all the pieces come together.
You don't know. And then, then obviously you get the green light go and that's when those, the helicopter lifts off and, and that's whenever, you know, your brain switches to, okay, this is happening, you know, and, and as you're flying to there, you know, you get those phase line check, phase line alpha, bravo, you know, and, and all the way up to the objective.
And then we're, I never will forget whenever it's go time, you know, we're stood up, faced out the back of that Chinook and we get that green light to go hop out the back of this aircraft while, you know, the majority of us weren't even on the land.
We weren't on the ground, right? Because the terrain at the time, it was so boulder is and rocky that they couldn't even land. So, you know, would Mike Tyson eloquently say everybody's got a plan to get punched in the mouth?
You know, that was us right out the gate, man was, was running out the back of that helicopter and then jumping 10 to 15 feet with 60 pounds of kit, right?
And we thought right out the gate, we were going to lose 20% of our element to, you know, spring knee twisted ankle, you know, you name it from what you're going to get from that.
And, and, or fortunately, no one was injured. We got our accountability.
And, you know, we started going up towards the mountain and going up towards the mountain was something that it was so eerie because it was so quiet.
Right. You know, if you've been in combat, you realize you don't want too much noise, but you don't want no noise either. Right.
And that's what was what we were walking into. It was just so silent that they, you know, we knew, you know, there's no reason, there's no way that you're going to hide, you know, six helicopters coming through this valley.
And, you know, they have, you know, sentries that are posted out at the beginning of the range. They got a cell phone service. They're going to call say, Hey, the Americans are coming. Right.
So we knew that, that they were here that they, we knew they knew we were here.
And it was just so hard climbing this mountain. Right. So like speed could be our security, right. Just go all the way to the objective as quick as you can before they had time to maneuver.
But it was hard for us to maneuver. And that's one thing that was, you know, always weighing on the back of my mind is because I was assault team one leader. Right. It was me, Dave Sanders, another Green Beret.
And then we had our, our, our, our interpreter with eight commandos. Right. And we were snaked up. We were literally climbing goat paths, getting up this, this, this mountain.
And when I say climbing, that's exactly what we were doing. We would, you know, get up to one terrace, use each other to climb up to the next chairs terrace and then climb that goat path up to the next and all the way up to the objective.
And when I was about 40 meters, you know, from my position to that first building into the, you know, to start climbing up through the, that village to get to the target building.
And we got opened up all with an avalanche of gunfire, you know, and I said, I say that not to sound dramatic or, you know, or anything like that. That's just the reality that we were in. And to put it into perspective, you know, within probably 15 minutes of the first round getting fired.
You know, our lead interpreter, CK, he got shot right in the face. I mean, right in the face and fell straight to the floor died on impact. Right. We had Dylan bear our green beret 18 echo. He was the RTO at the time.
He got shot in the hip, you know, initial assessment of him was 20 minutes to live. Right. So think about that. Right. I knew I wasn't going to get off the mountain in 20 minutes. I knew we weren't going to get him off the mountain in 20 minutes. We weren't going to get the medevac bird there. Do the math. He's dead.
And then our Luis Morales, he didn't get shot once, but he got shot twice in the leg. Right. And hear him, you know, calling me over the radio, saying, John, come get me, brother. That was a big deal. Right. So that's what I mean by saying I had an avalanche of gunfire right within the first 15 minutes.
And, you know, the best thing that we could do would call an air support. Right. So we would lava 203 around, you know, towards a building that was that was firing towards us. You know, the air asset above us would see smoke from that 203 grenade.
And he would come in and make more smoke. It was pretty simple, you know, and that's what we would do for, you know, probably two hours at the time.
And when we had the call that we had to come back down from our location, you know, we pretty much initiated Operation Human Shield. Right. It was my job, Dave's job, those that are around us to catch the bullet.
So, Ron, the only medic on the team that could keep him alive, you know, right, keep them alive. And so it was a scary moment. Right. It was a scary moment.
One, you think your buddy's dying. You think you're, you know, there's there's obviously we're in a pickle here. You know, you're worried about, you know, these are all danger close airstrikes. Right. So you're not you're worried about what's coming in there.
Are you are you're calling it in right, you know, our J.R. CCT at the time was a young guy first deployment. Right. So I'm like, man, is he gonna call this in right and all this stuff and and just for, you know, hour after hour of that, like it weighs on you.
And unfortunately, you know, I had bigger problems at this time. Right. Because I took a step and I got shot in my right leg. Man, I felt the most pain I've ever felt in my life.
And I'm not here to, you know, beat my chest and say, you know, I'm this tough guy or whatever, just to be real with you, man. I feel for, you know, rolled over. I looked at my leg, you know, I scryed out, you know, cried out and was terrified.
I just see my leg. It was just hanging at a 45 degree angle only by an inch of flesh. Right. And the only thing that I knew at the time, you know, what was to stop the bleeding. Right. Right.
You know, I always tell everybody, like when I talk about the story, I use this as a point, you know, to there's a lot of noise in life. Right.
And life's going to give you so much information that's going to come to you and tell you this matters, this matters, this matters, this matters.
And the sooner and the more efficiently that you can block that noise out to focus on what really you can affect, the better you're going to get at life. Right. The more progress you're going to have in life.
And that's just what I did at that point. Didn't care about who was shooting at me. I didn't care about, frankly, my job at the time. All I cared about was keeping me alive and how, you know, and how do I do that?
And that was to put my tourniquet on. Right. And that's what I focused on. And I asked my buddy Dave, right. Because, you know, I jokingly say I'm dumb, but I know I'm dumb. So that almost makes me smart. Right.
Think about that. Right. I knew, hey, man, I just got shot. I'm all jacked up because I, you know, I've never done this before. I never put on a tourniquet on in combat before.
Right. So I had a very big skills gap that I had to close real quick. And so how do I do that? And by asking for help. And I asked, you know, Dave, by the way, his first deployment, his first time doing it. Right. So we were both doing this in real time.
And in fact, he didn't even put my tourniquet on. Right. You know, we were able, you know, to get it on and get it secure. But I look, the good news of this severity of my injury, you could see blood just, you know, pouring out.
And so after he went back to work, you know, I grabbed that tourniquet and I kept turning it and turning it until all the blood stopped. And I mean, the tourniquet probably hurt worse than the gunshot. That's what they say.
And that means you put it on right. Right. So walk me through that. You're lying there. You got a tourniquet. You know, how does how do you end up getting out of that situation and this walk through to the recovery process?
Yeah. You know, going back to blocking out the noise right there every, you know, every time that I would move on, you know, scooting on my butt, whatever it is, you know, that that that leg again that was just hanging by an inch of flesh, it would catch on something and flop over.
Right. Or whatever it is. And I'm telling you, man, it was the most excruciating pain that ever felt in my life. And so the only thing I knew that would be would like splint it right.
How do you capture it and keep it from from moving around? Right. Immobilize it. And so I grab it. I literally and I fold it up into my crotch and I just held it between my thighs. Right.
Like that. That's what I did at the time. And just continue to fight the best I can. And we've called an ordinance to, you know, keep their head down.
And really the way that we got off the mountain is they call it an airstrike, you know, drop bomb. We'd, you know, go off the backside of the mountain, whether it be 10, 15 feet at the time, you know, wash, rinse, repeat all the way to the bottom.
You know, and I always tell the story because I really love or want you to understand like the mentality of what it's like with Green Berets when we're in the fight and just really what we have to go through.
And I never will forget at the time, you know, this had to have been, you know, 15, 20 minutes after getting shot. You know, I got my tourniquet on legs folded up, you know, but I'm still hurting so bad.
And it dawned on me, man, I got my morphine, right. I need to, you know, put that morphine in me and look good or to feel better.
And so I asked my doc, I'm like, hey, Ron, what's side down on this thing? Again, one very trained well and met at the time.
You know, for me, first deployment didn't know a lot. He's like, hey, you know, purple side down. I'm like, all right, cool. So I grabbed this. I went right into my thigh, but the needle went to my thumb.
And man, you want to talk about like a mixture of just rage and pain, right. When I just threw the needle at my doc, I'm like, yeah, one job, Ron, you know, one job.
And I just started cussing him and told I was going to beat him with my leg when I saw him.
You know, like we're laughing here. That's how we were laughing. You know, we were literally laughing on the side of the mountain, you know, because to put it in perspective, we were close, right.
This wasn't like a big parking lot where you had hundreds of meters, 10, you know, between everyone.
We were almost quite literally shoulder to shoulder doing this. Right. So it wasn't like me saying, hey, Ron, you know, from, you know, 40 yards away.
This is me saying, hey, Ron, from five yards away, you know, and so whenever I throw it out of it, you know, literally hits them.
And right. So everybody knew what had happened. And, you know, since I'm on Ron, I always tell the other story about it was like 20, 30 minutes after getting shot, you know, already went through the morphine, you know, leg was still, you know, hurting.
The phone felt great. You know, leg was shaky, but, you know, it dawned on me again. I'm like, hey, man, the only one keeping me alive is me. Right. Like, and I'm not qualified for that. Right. I know that.
And so I thought to myself, hey, Ron, come check me out, man. You know, ABCs, all that stuff, you know, just come make sure I'm all right. And I'll never forget him.
You know, he was working on Dylan at the time and his hip. Right. So he was working here. He kind of picks his head up like this. He looks at me, gives me a thumbs up and says, you're good.
I was like, I'm not good, Ron, you know, like, I know me good. This is not good.
But it was definitely again, we're laughing like we are now. And we were laughing on the battlefield because, you know, I wanted to feel special at the time.
And, you know, but Ron obviously knew what he was doing, you know, because if I'm yelling at him, if I'm good enough to do that, well, man, he's, you know, he knew that I wasn't dying at the time.
You know, and, you know, there's another story that, you know, with Matt Williams, you know, I never I just learned this, by the way.
Think about what the mindset and the decisions that we have to make when we're in combat. Right. So my 18 Bravo, Matt Williams, we were just talking about this a couple months ago.
You know, he told me the story about how he was coming up the mountain to try to help us and where that next terrorist was is where we were, where we were all getting shot. Right.
So at the moment, at that time, you know, pretty much every single person up there had gotten shot except Dave. Right.
And Matt knew he could hear me calling out for help. He's like, if I know if I go up there, we're both dead.
So the best thing for him to do right now is to either let me die or wait for another time, you know, to where he a lull and fire for him to come.
Right. So think about that decision, you know, that you have to make. Am I going to, you know, let my brother die right now to try to save him?
Because that's what he had to do. Right. And it was and I just learned that recently. It's just it's a profound statement that I didn't realize was happening at the time. Right.
That my buddy was sitting there like, I guess I got to hear him die because I know if I go up there, we're both dead.
You know, and but again, so how we would go off the side of the mountain, we drop that bomb and get lower down or fall down or whatever it is.
And we say when I was dropping bombs, always put into perspective. Right. Because, you know, a listener here probably don't know the difference of, you know, what danger close is for 2000 pounder, 250 pounder or 500 pounder, whatever that is.
Right. Well, danger close for 2000 pounder is about 10 football fields. Right. It's a thousand meters. Right. Which is over 10 football field stack in the end between you and the detonation of that bomb.
Well, they were dropping them on us less than 100 yards away. Right. So think about, you know, not only the concussion of what that feels like, the sound of what that sounds like, you know, the the what it looks like to where literally the big puff of smoke comes up and it gets dark.
Right. So you're in the middle of the day, huge explosion. I mean, by the way, it's just like the movies you yell incoming, you get small, the, you know, the bomb hits and then all it just gets silent and the eerie sound that silence that we walked in on.
That's what you hear again. And then, you know, that gave us the ability to come off that mountain and get to the base of the mountain.
You know, and this is over hours, by the way, this isn't just, you know, this isn't a football play for I'm going to run a sprint for 4.5 seconds and then come back to the huddle.
You know, this is hour after hour, the most unrelentless thing that I've ever been to been through.
But now we're at the base of the mountain and the first medevac bird, you know, that's coming down there to get us. Well, in order to get there, we need to the HLZ, right? The landing zone. Well, I actually we all had to go through this this river.
Right. There's a stream of just melted ice and snow again, April 6. Right. So early April, 10,000 feet.
I mean, the high was probably 34. Right. So it's it's cold and this water is cold. So whenever I got drunk to that water, right, because at the time now I'm on a litter, right, trying to get drunk through there.
I mean, I thought I was going to die of hypothermia. Right. You know, it's like the OG cold plunge, right. Going through there and going to the HLZ.
And imagine what it was like for me at this time. Right. Still, I got no morphine at the time after that. Right. So just most excruciating pain.
My team sergeant, you know, seeing my team sergeant, by the way, you know, when Scott got shot in front of me, you know, that's when I realized, you know, we could die here.
Right. Because the team sergeant, that's the guy that I was looking for to get us out of here. Right. You know, yes, the officer in charge. I love me some Colin. He's great and everything. But, you know, team sergeant, that's the guy that's been in the military for 16 years.
Right. Been all the cool guys schools and 82nd Airborne before he came here. Like, he's the man. And to see him get shot in front of me, not once, by the way, but seem to get shot twice.
That was that's a memory that I'll forever have to deal with it and a fear at the time to where I realized the guy that I'm looking forward, looking forward to get us out of here.
You know, he may not make it out either, you know, but fortunately, we made it to this point. And to see, you know, because he got shot in the left shoulder, you know, he's left handed too, by the way.
And to see him bandaged up, looking up at this helicopter, you know, with his arm reaching for it as it's lowering down, we actually see the helicopter just fly away.
We have audio of the helicopter pilot saying, I'm hit, I'm hit, I'm going south. You know, he actually got shot. Right. So imagine, you know, again, that scene of rounds coming in, this helicopter going down.
You know, we're, thank goodness, we're about to get out of here. I don't know. And then he flies away. Right. And as he flies away, obviously, all of that rounds start impacting on us. I get drug back through the water again.
We get, you know, literally fight through bullets all the way to the base of the mountain again, waiting for the next helicopter to come in and try to get us out.
And that one was a, it wasn't even a medevac burn. All it was, was an air reaction force. Right. And ARF that came down to help us, which had a couple of green berets on it.
So they land, they get off, we get, you know, literally thrown on. And that's when we fly away.
What is it about the positions of the Taliban that they are able to withstand such immense bombing? Because you hear this over and over and over again. Is it a tunnel system? Is just the fact that the rock around is so strong?
Because, you know, in our Hollywood minds, they think, oh, you drop a bomb and it blows everyone. They're all dead. And then you guys walk off the mountain. But despite all of those assaults, you're still getting hit as you're trying to evacuate.
Well, there's a few answers to that. First one is we were getting hit within 270 degrees. Right. So we were in a bowl in this mountain range. Right. Because you had this finger of the mountain range that just kind of turned around.
And so within 270 degrees, we were getting shot at. So just because you bombed one place doesn't mean the guy, you know, to their left, you know, a couple hundred meters away, you know, they're still shooting at us. Right. So there's that aspect of it.
Then there's the inevitability that Mother Earth is tough. Right. And these mud huts that they make that from, you know, Mother Earth, like they can withstand the most relentless firepower that there is.
And so there is that aspect, right. That it's like a time axe, right. Take a little licking and keep on ticking. That's, you know, the structures that they're fighting from. And then the third one is there was a lot of them.
Right. Right. So there was, you know, what's that old joke saying, sir, they got to surround us. And like, good, we can fire in any direction. You know, like there was just, it was the most unrelenting thing that we've ever been through.
So you finally get on that, that helicopter and you're taken out. Kind of what is that sequence of, you know, medical stops before you get to Walter Reed?
Yeah, you know, to be, believe it or not, we couldn't even make it in that aircraft all the way to the hospital. Right. So the first one pilot got shot. The second one, all the damage that it took, you know, getting us out of there.
We had to do emergency landing, you know, to cross load to a third helicopter. So I'm like, come on, baby Jesus. Just when the spirituality is coming in. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I will say that we'll come back to that.
But, but yeah, you know, it was, so I took another helicopter for us to even make it to the nearest combat hospital, you know, and I always like to talk about that moment. Right. Because that moment, not obviously significant for us, but we forget that it's significant for those that are receiving us.
Right. Because war is a young man and woman's game. Right. You can join the military at 17 years old, go to basic training for a couple of weeks, go to your AIT or job, learn how to be a medic, combat medic, or whatever that is for what a few months tops.
Go to your, you know, your unit, get deployed, you know, obviously with a global war on terror, you know, close, it may not be as quickly now as it was back then. But back then, shoot, you can be down there 18 years old saving lives.
So whenever we go into this hospital, you got these young kids that their eyes just look like grapefruit. Right. Because, you know, all of us bloodied up look like, you know, extras from assault five movie. Right. And they're just overwhelmed. And to think with my situation, you know, I get rolled in, right.
I'm on a gurney at the time. My leg, you know, I'm still kicking my ass. Right. Because my legs, you know, it's folded up. And when he sees me, obviously, he's going to fixate on the injury. Well, my lungs collapse.
You know, we still don't know the reason why, you know, what the catalyst was to make that happen. But the, the moment that my lungs collapse, it was the most terrifying and most, you know, helpless I've ever felt in my life. Right. Because what, you know, people forget when you can't breathe, you can't say I can't breathe.
Right. So I just grabbed the guy and I pulled him so close to me and I pointed my mouth and I see, you know, the light bulb go off that. Oh, okay. I got to help this guy. But the only way to help was to give me not one, but two chest tubes. Right. With no anesthesia in real time. Right. So if you don't know what a chest tube is, right. You take that knife and you cut between my rib cages into my lungs and you poke a hose into those lungs and that breeze for me.
You know, and that's when, you know, I pass out with the, that, that knife going through my rib cage from all the pain. I literally grabbed the guy, tried to throw him over me and I black out seeing like four guys hold me down.
Crazy. So then what, where does that lead? I mean, you still, like you said, you got your leg folded up. Now you've got this lung collapse. You know, when, when you come to kind of what's that journey to at least getting everything attached before you start the kind of rehabilitation journey or in this case, amputation, excuse me.
James, that's probably the most important question that you're going to ask me today.
Right. Because I black out.
Knowing what had just happened right through all of that things. And I wake up the next moment, eyes open, staring at ceiling tiles in a hospital bed, terrified to look down.
Right. Think about that moment that I know what had happened. I didn't have amnesia. Right. There wasn't memory loss or wasn't a trying to, you know, let me figure out, you know, my surroundings and understand, you know, what's going on here.
I mean, immediately my eyes open. I realized the next moment I looked down, I'm going to know whether I have one leg or two. Right. And I procrastinated. I didn't want to know the answer.
Right. At 27 year old Green Beret, like I said earlier, I went through all in all the time to be there. And I could still feel my foot, like even right now I can still feel the foot, you know, so I didn't know and when I look down, you know, that's that's when I saw that only had one foot sticking up and I realized that forever I'm going to be a bologna amputee.
That's the moment that I tell people I learned the inevitability and the meaning of the word can't.
Right. At that moment, I knew I can't walk.
Right, not without the aid of a prosthetic not without some type of external support doesn't matter. I can't.
And I cried.
Right. I'm just to be be Franklin vulnerable with you man I cried I bawled like a kid because I knew.
I knew it was over. Right. I knew all the things that I'd gone through to be that little kid that didn't know his mommy. Right to being on that parade field dawn and the Green Beret and all that great stuff.
You know, and so there's that part of it that I was crying about there another part that I was crying about you know, you know, oh, by the way, now I'm disabled. Right.
Like what am I going to do like this is the significance of that word I can't walk that's that sentence I can't walk.
I was feeling all of it at that moment and it was again it was.
It sucked. You know all the all the thought of all the things right by me God. Right. You know, is my wife going to leave me.
Right. You know, you know, how am I going to pay you get a job and I'm going to get kicked out of the army all together not have a job like all these things.
You know, then, then ultimately you have, you know, the, you know, what I call the selfish things right like can I get back on a team.
Because I did all the things that I did to get on there. I didn't want to give that up man. And so, you know, living that at that moment it was it was the most debilitating thing I've ever faced.
So how did you begin to navigate I know I think you mentioned it in the security hope podcast when your soft friends about around this time was when you started to reconnect with your faith and have a relationship with God.
What was some of the things you have this icon you're looking down there's no limb where they're supposed to be a limb. When did that mindset start to change that took you on to the I can path.
Yeah, so
I know what it feels like to die.
Right, I know what it felt like on that mountainside.
By the way, it wasn't scary. Right, it was actually relieving. It was comforting to know that if I just quit it all go away.
And so I use that to say is that's whenever I basically I gave it to God at the time I said hey God this is all I got.
Right.
This is all I got. I'm trying as hard as I can, and it's not enough. And so if I make it out of here. It's because of you not because of me, like I remember having that conversation you know obviously you you have the, you know the, you're playing your role
through you know through all that moments like people talk about right all the memories and everything like that and and all that but I just again I distinctly remember saying God, if I make it out of here it's because of you and, and, and, and, and by the way, so obviously I'm talking about this, you know, over a decade down the road in real
time it wasn't as evident.
Right, it wasn't like I woke up, oh I got one leg thanks God I'm alive.
The end.
The end right okay everything's awesome you know up top high five.
You know it wasn't that way there was a lot of anger.
Right, there was a lot of why these, there was, there was a lot of just confusion, obviously pain that I had to deal with but you know the one thing that was underlying was the understanding that it's because of him I made it out of there.
And through my journey, you know today you know looking back then, you know I can I can say that now I couldn't have said that then right I couldn't have said all that then but, you know, having that faith it really,
it didn't take the questioning away but it changed the posture of when I do question right so it wasn't a God why me. It was a God what do you teach me right that that's really the posture that I that I obtained at that time, and even to this day.
You know I don't have a negative emotional attachment to struggle anymore.
I don't have a negative emotional attachment to pain or discomfort. It's curiosity.
Right, because I know now that that struggle is good. I know now that struggle makes you better I know now that struggle is because God is doing this for you and not to you.
Right that you may not understand why at the time but if you just keep, you know the faith keep leaning forward and fighting hard right that's that's my little statement that I always say is to lean forward and fight hard.
You know you're going to be better on the outside of it right and and that's where my faith has helped me.
I think I've hit on something that I've talked a lot about recently. When you look at certainly the first responder mental health conversation which I'm more familiar with. I think the veterans are a little bit further ahead of us.
We kind of got our trouser legs stuck on the word stigma, we've got to smash the stigma, and you know even people today will be at conferences saying we got to smash the stigma, it's 2025, we get it, that you know, we're talking about it now.
I think the real value is, is that post traumatic growth, but just like you said that a struggle that has been worked through whether it's an amputation whether it's a you know cancer whether it's processing the fact that both your parents were incarcerated and you live with your
parents whatever the thing is when some of us you know naturally process it as life goes on. I when I reflect on my my childhood and I've talked about this as well as the horrible shit that happened.
There was a lot of holistic things completely unintentional accidental just because I grew up on a farm in England that also, you know, help process some of that stuff.
And to me, those struggles as address struggles as work through struggles, then put a lot of hope into the work because I think that the person the other side of that is, you know, person 2.0 john Wayne 2.0, and you now become a more resilient version of yourself
those struggles if left on address you might find yourself sitting with a bottle of whiskey and a pistol. But if you address them that you actually then become a beacon of light and be able to help other people.
Well, it's it's a it's a muscle you got to flex. And if you don't use it right at atrophies and that muscle I'm talking about is vulnerability.
That muscle I'm talking about is is the the brutal honesty with yourself. Don't lie to yourself. Don't just say I'm good. It's that muscle yet the flex is just being real with yourself right and I think that's where people
you know our generation or our community they don't flex that muscle right because that muscle scary right that muscle is you don't want to be the the vulnerable guy that's not the the big bad you know john Wayne as the type person right and and
but that I've learned that of you know my through my just journey the manliest thing that I've ever done right is ask for help right the most courageous thing that I've ever done is be vulnerable with someone right with what you know insert name here right your brother your wife your whoever that is but
you know that's your your hundred percent right that it's kind of like you know like these life coaches or these coaches that say oh here are the tips and tricks and all these things. It's nothing new.
Can you say we got to break the culture the stigma the same it's not like we don't know it. You got to do it right do the work and and and I go back to flexing that muscle because it's hard.
It's hard at the very beginning to do that right it's hard to look at your buddies and say hey I need your help but I can unequivocally tell you you know that that losing my legs one of the best thing that's ever happened to me.
Full stop and I'll tell you why right that God has shown me that growth through struggle because the first thing that I got hit with you know you know on April 7 2008 right you know because people always ask me about April 6 2008 nobody ever asked me about April 7.
Right nobody ever says hey what happened that day right you know but the the the first thing that God showed me on April 7 is humility.
Right where all these big barrel chested freedom fighters that can you know run lift do all the man macho thing and hey I was that guy and I could do it all you know I knew that my superpower was the effort that I would put into something right I'm not the biggest strongest fastest I think sure is not the smartest.
But guess what you're not going to outwork me I don't care what you do I'm going to be that guy standing there at the end and when he humbled me to realize it don't matter how hard I try I still can't walk.
My legs not growing back man and so that that humble pie that I was forced to eat you know what was it sucked again make no mistake about it for those that listen to this realize that that just because I say it don't mean it's easy it doesn't mean it's fun it's hard for sure it's hard.
It's a process and if you put the work in if you flex that muscle it gets stronger and it gets stronger as to where now I don't mind having difficult conversations with people I don't mind having that uncomfortable thing you know it like even if I come up with somebody like hey this might sting a little bit but I love you enough to tell you this here's what.
Right or vice versa hey look check it out I can't do this I'm not good enough for their whatever that is you just having that vulnerability like look you know what like when I have you know.
Tactical conversations with my wife right right we you know I it is just about I don't want to win a fight anymore right I never will forget my pastor telling me are you fighting with your wife or for her.
Right because because the alpha guy and he wants to win right I want to win I want to do the things and I want to show you like anything about whatever the subject is and I catch myself doing that now and I realize okay my fighting with her for her and then.
In that moment say hey babe you just need to know because of my struggles when you say that here's what it means to me right and here's what you have this this vulnerable and honest conversation but that humility that humble pie that was forced down my throat was really the you know.
The the inception of what led me to the path where I am now.
See that that vulnerability and talking about you know having the courage to be open having the courage to be asked for help it it's an interesting parallel at the moment in the fire service you know this is law enforcement to but the fire service especially.
Our work week is insane like 56 hours a week they're not sleeping every third day for 1020 30 years now we've got this recruitment crisis now you're told at 7am you can't go home and see your kids and go to the school for donuts with dad you got to call them and say I'm not coming.
Because you go to another 24 and you know in a short term like fighting these fires at the moment LA it's what you've got to do but they've used it really as a staffing model now for 10 plus years and our first responders are dropping in droves you know suicide and overdose and cancers and all the things.
And I'm I'm for a long time now I've been trying to to create that rally call like we have to advocate for change but what I see is there's that identity just like the green beret you know which way with the struggles of transitioning out with the firefighter well I'm a courageous firefighter and I go to the conferences and you know I film myself working out whatever it is right there's not that courage to say you know I'm going to fight to be home when I'm supposed to be home.
I'm going to be fight for a work week that allows me to perform because the green berets have the Thor 3 program and strength and conditioning coaches the fire service our conversations just oh let's try and see if we can get less of us to die we are so far from the human performance that you guys are exposed to.
And so the courage to be vulnerable and talk about your mental health I also see a big fight that the courage to simply advocate for yourself and your family like it's not cool for a profession to joke about the fact that you'll be on your third marriage and have an alcohol problem that shouldn't be hand in hand with being a firefighter.
So even now you know I see cowardice especially in the leadership where they're burying their firefighters and doing nothing about it so that word courage and especially moral courage your own courage to ask for help but also as a leader your courage to advocate for change and not just kind of lean into this identity
what everyone thinks I'm a hero and I'm brave who gives a shit what everyone else thinks about what is it what does your child think when you don't come home when you're supposed to come home.
So it's an interesting conversation that's really become a nucleus of 2025 is refinding what courage actually is it's not helmets and mustaches and so he faces and standing up for what's right and that could be your own mental health and asking for help, or it could be advocating because you've lost so many people
and you're sick and tired of burying them and hearing bagpipes.
I couldn't agree more and I think the catalyst for me.
Getting to that point was was having the brutal honesty with myself, you know I think we lie to ourselves way too much and just say I'm good.
Right that you know whenever I give a speaking gig I always tell people stop being good.
Right, start being great.
Right and that means something different for everybody but but that that's really what it was for me.
You know it is after one of my buddies died.
I just was fed up right I woke up the next day obviously hung over because I drank because that's what he was supposed to you know it's what you're supposed to do right.
You know pour one out for the homies you know drank to the fall and all that stuff and and you're right because that was the next moment that I just I woke up and I had that brutal honesty with myself.
This is you know what I'm not good.
This is not good what I'm doing right now is not good it's not good for me it's not good for my family and if I keep doing this it's going to kill me.
Right it's going to kill my marriage is going to kill my relationship with my kids because I had two kids at the time.
You know I got two kids now right so two kids before two kids after suck that Taliban right.
But but you're 100% right because like I said that's what it was for me just having that brutal honesty say hey I'm not good and I'm going to work on myself.
I'm worth working on right. Absolutely. Well how did that play into the journey not only rehabilitating your amputation but ultimately becoming the first green beret to go through and then successfully become a green beret sniper with a with a prosthetic.
Yeah well you know they always have short term goals right your short term goals you know whatever they are to you but to me it was how do I say this.
Not necessary to get back on a team but to beat this I'm going to beat this whatever that word you know whatever that definition of beat this meant.
But that that's what I you know that was my short term goal like I'm not going to be this guy in a wheelchair I'm not going to be this guy that you know can't walk and talk and do I do the stuff right.
And so I'm going to get back on our team I'm going to do it. And so that was it. And I was laser focused on it and getting my health right you know getting strong getting back in it within six months I was running already you know because I'm an idiot you know and you know but I was just again I was focused on getting back in it.
I was focused on doing everything that I can to beat this amputation and and it's hard you know I've got a very short stump you know size does matter you know and you know I got shot so high up that that I still thank God I have my my need but I am a below knee amputee.
And since it's very short I mean like a few inches you know I have stability issues but again no excuses I gave myself no excuses to let that be a cop and I'm like I'm going to run I'm going to do the things and so you know to your point Thor program was kind of just getting started at that
time and I just didn't shortcut anything I've worked as hard as I could and I mean that like every single day get back in it within a year I ran the army 10 miler right and which it was you know it was tough it was one of the obviously hardest things I've done it at the time
but you know since I was like okay again short term goals are you ran this now what right and still the other goals I got to get back on a team and do this and at that time I've gone from my ODA to the sniper detachment and I was an assistant instructor there and my team starting at the time.
He said hey if you want I'll send you to the you know special forces sniper school it's called SOTIC at the time. He's like you want to I'll send you there to be that way if you you know you could be in order to be a lead instructor right you had to be SOTIC qualified.
And I said heck yeah let's go you know send me again too dumb to not know I ain't supposed to try that you know I didn't you know it's too much long whatever the deal is and anyway we I went through and that was one of the you know the hardest things I've done.
You know the hardest schools that I went through it was two days you know two days you know it was marksmanship in the morning you know technology at night whether it was dealing with cameras and all this stuff that you got to go through to be a sniper right and I never will forget you know we probably I don't know halfway through it and we transition into stocks right you got to put your ghillie suit on and do all that stuff and when you're in your training area you got to change.
So the first time I was you know dropping trowel and changing my into that my guy saw only had one leg and like that's right boy game on you know you had a one legged guy with you did you and they didn't know and it was funny because after that when we would do a scramble right a running gun where you had to go from one position to next shoot this paint you know climb this ladder whatever it is you know and then they post the times you know I'd always go and I check that show everybody I was always you know middle of the road to the top and I said
look the one legged guy didn't finish last I'm just letting you know you know and and just again I put you know did everything they told me to do as hard as I could and I was fortunate enough to to graduate and to become the first amputee to ever graduate Green Beret sniper school and and I'm just so fortunate to be able to do that.
I had a British sniper on Craig Harrison who at the time had the longest sniper kill but it was interesting because he was telling a story about you know obviously when you're sniping you don't want to leave any remnants of the fact that you were ever there in the first place so he was talking about pooing in the Tupperware and his partner having to wipe his ass so that's the kind of stuff that they don't show in Hollywood I think it's very important I can imagine you got to be careful not getting something from the fridge in from a sniper because it might be a poo that you just dip into.
Yeah Hollywood likes to romanticize what it's like to be in a sniper hide don't they?
Yeah they certainly scoot over that bit.
Yeah.
Well then so another area that I know obviously can be very jarring for our first responders our military members is that transition you know even like you said after the battle wound that you had you were still able to wear the uniform still able to be around the guys.
When what made you decide that you were going to transition out and then how was that for you had you already processed some of that stuff because of the struggles you've been through or was it still jarring having to finally you know step away from the uniform?
Man that's a good segue a good question you know towards the next part of my healing right because I said I've been saying I a lot in my recovery right I want to beat this I want to get back on a team I want to do all the things I want to do it and going through sniper school I realized the vanity of that statement.
Right I really because it was hard especially that final infield they did again they didn't pull any punches so here I am a one legged guy got 120 pound rucksack on and I'm you know going through the woods and then I got to drop and do all the stuff and man I did it.
But the whole time that I was in there I was thinking about Shock Valley.
Right I was thinking about man could I really do this on the side of a mountain right could I really and not get my buddy killed right and graduating that that course it really did dawn on me that that no matter how good I am one legged a green beret two legged is always best for the team.
Right because that's that's what it's about it's not about me it's about the team.
And I was okay with that you know I was okay it was that was one of those come to Jesus meetings Friday I was okay that that you know what but I can stay in and work as a sniper instructor do all that cool guy stuff and help train the next generation.
That's what God has on my plate. No problem you know.
Then I had to work more to area fair duties for Aaron Bellagio.
And James being on that tarmac with that American flag draped over that casket and it being lowered out of that aircraft and his wife and I shoot two month old that was there who he hadn't even met yet.
What do you say to them. I'm sorry.
Right, what do you say.
I mean I just had this, you know profound sadness obvious that I've never felt before because I've never been like right there.
You know, looking at that crying widow.
Obviously profound anger and rage of wanting to go avenge right.
But also a profound helplessness because I knew I couldn't do that. Right, because I made that decision not to go on a team and do that and the you know that this that's the long way of answering your question of transitioning is like that's when I realized.
Maybe there's something else for me. Right that I knew that in my heart I couldn't be that guy receiving these bodies I'm not strong enough I couldn't do it.
And, and so that's you know the good thing unfortunately I don't think you all have that but one thing that we have in the special operations communities is we have this called the special operations care coalition.
Right, so they're benevolent organization that tracks every single wounded special operator.
And their job is to be the 411 911 for special operations soldiers. Right, and, and, hey, I need help. What do you got about this all the stuff right that comes with being wounded.
And so I asked my advocate, Pete I said hey Pete.
I'm not saying I want to get out. I'm just saying if I did, what's it look like.
You know, let me make an educated decision rather than just saying, my name is john Wayne I was born on the Fourth of July and I'm a green beret and that's what I'm supposed to do right.
And so, he said Roger that came back, you know, a week or two later and had a little plan.
He said hey look, you know, if you'd like to move, or you know if you'd like to get out here's organizations that do this.
We can provide you with this this this and this and and you know I brought it back to my wife and really she kind of fought it.
Right, because because that's what she knew or others obvious stability with getting paid first to 15th.
All that good stuff right and and.
And so I just knew God had something better for me, I just knew it I knew it in my heart I said this is this is not where I need to be and.
And that's when I made the decision I said hey, you know, let's let's hang the cleats up right put the hat on the wall and and make that transition out.
So, when when I hear people that are transitioned out obviously some you know it's extremely rocky and some even span spiral downwardly.
And then some it's interesting find themselves in the corporate space, but if there isn't that purpose if there isn't that element of making the world a little better, I feel like that then becomes a very negative environment for them as well.
But then there's others that find themselves in another area where they realize they're still serving but now they're just not wearing the same uniform anymore.
Kind of what was your journey as you kind of walked out that back door.
You know, really it's the purpose that drives everything we do.
And as you know intimately through the you know the fabric of your being is the purpose that's what's driving you to do this show it's the purpose of what drives you to do your previous career like that that's that's paramount.
And you said it and if you don't.
I don't want to necessarily say replace that purpose because you're never going to replace you know that green hat being on your head. Right. But the purpose of what I do matters.
The purpose that those around me are living about something bigger than themselves right and and in the corporate world you don't get that right and by yourself you don't get that right and there's there's somewhere in between you got to mix and.
I'm just full so fortunate that God put me in Dallas Texas.
Texas loves them some veterans man you know and they really are patriotic state.
They really know it really is in and fortunately we have a very good economy.
So there is jobs in the gap you know they're really it's a great place if you are a veteran or first responder even that as well.
But if you want to transition this is a great place to come and and when I moved here you know I never you know I'm not from here grows you know grows back is three hours away and I knew I wasn't going back there right.
But I met a gentleman that got me in touch with Chris Kyle the Navy SEALs and you know American sniper that was unfortunately murdered years ago.
And so I fell right in I mean I'm talking about you know almost right after after getting out I was the lead instructor for his company.
Right I thought it was awesome to that that you know that was like hey man you know Mr. Navy SEAL American sniper you keep writing books.
I'll fight the war right.
They need a green beret to come teach for him you know typical seal right.
But he was a great guy Chris was one of the guys man if you ever wanted a guy to make it he was him you know he's just a good old boy from Hamilton Texas.
You know it frankly he didn't want to write the book you know he just somebody else said that they were going to write a book about him and he said you know they wanted him to do it or they wanted him to do it with them and he said no.
But then they told him I'm going to do it with or without you so he said OK pound sand I'm going to do it by myself and that's how that book happened and he had committed to giving the families of Ryan Jobe and Mark Lee the money.
And that that's you know the type of guy that I come to know and come to know very well right after getting out.
But again he died right so here I am I thought I had a home right the lead guy he's dead.
You know there's a you can read about it there's a big fallout afterwards you know with the widow and the business partners and all that stuff you know and I'm not going to get in here but ultimately it just left me into what now.
Right.
And I was just fortunate to to as knowing Chris and the network that I was getting into you know one of the guys actually he's the guy that got me in with Chris which was David Ferri.
He's the Irish golf announcer if you ever played Tiger Woods golf he's the guy that says oh horrible shot.
You know he's that guy you know had a golf show Ferdy you know he's he's a big deal.
We always make fun of him because I always say like I've shot 10,000 rounds of ammo with them but zero rounds of golf like I'm not a golf guy you know and here he is he's big golf guy and we were shooting at a friend's ranch.
And he's like oh Johnny what are you going to do for a living.
You know and I said well pretty much every transitioning veteran does I'm like well I guess I'll go to college you know get me we I got the GI bill and all that.
He's like oh Johnny, you'd be a horrible student.
He's like what are you going to do listening to some liberal professor, I'm like, all right, this this not far off.
And so long story short he convinced me started gun company with him.
So we started company called five toes custom.
Right only had five toes so we named it five toes custom I don't know if it was a five toes I had or five toes I lost but nevertheless, five toes it was you know and because it was awesome he's like you know what he's like oh you know I'll buy the parts, if you build a gun we sell it right on.
If we don't sell it right on I'll just have a badass arsenal.
You know that's kind of how he looked at it you know and and so went to a master gunsmith here in Dallas and and did cook he taught me how to turn a barrel on a lathe and like literally build you know this isn't just, you know, with a hammer, you know, building a ours like we're turning
barrels on a lathe and really make you know making handcrafted rifles and I turned into something that was pretty awesome and we had a couple veterans working for us you know and that was the purpose like you know five toes custom was a place for veterans can come by building handcrafted
firearms, and we had that it was open for about five years man and it was great.
So what made you again transition out of that and then go into water have I got that correct.
Yeah, you know, what do they say when you plan God laughs right unsolicited somebody offered to buy the company from me by five toes right and before that it happened a guy came into my office to ask me about live to give a water company and.
So we already were kind of running the talks of doing things together and whenever I sold the company.
I figured out what I was going to do you know you know he sold all the debt with it. Right. I learned very quickly that the firearm industry is not what industry you're going to get rich in right. It's a lifestyle thing but we live to give what was happening
and we, we partnered with at the time Dr Pepper, you know, the whole purpose of our company is to everybody by we give half back to veterans. Right. And so, that's pretty simple story, right, drink water with us give back to the end first responders, by the way, give back to veterans
and so whenever that all happened. You know we, we went to Dr Pepper and I was fortunate to know at the time the the CEO of Dr Pepper Larry young.
Awesome guy, and he got us into doing that and now, you know, fast forward we're in about 200 HBs and doing about as good as we can.
And another thing that I'm doing which which is really the main focus of what I do now is the you know the same week I signed my company way. One of my customers his name was Rex, he called me very successful entrepreneur.
One of my closest friends now dear friend, mentor of mine. He called me and he's like hey john Wayne what are you doing, and I was like nothing you hired, you know and he said what I mean I just sold five toes you know live to give obviously I'm on the board and stuff
I need to pay me.
Right, so I still needed a real job.
And he said we'll come by the office.
And I came by and like literally hung up drove his office right same day, one of those type things and and James you talked to me away guy never talked to me before he you know his first question was what's your purpose.
And to find a job that's my purpose right and kind of laughs is like no that's not your purpose. But he just again gave me that mentorship that I never had before, you know from a successful guy like that that that just for two hours just kind of set me down and
start worrying about what I'm going to do and start worrying about why do I get up every day.
Right, and through all of that you know we really came back to where you know I is at the bottom of my heart, which is, you know, helping veterans and first responders right as you know, I know firsthand what it's like to go to war, have my back on the battlefield
and I'm going to go to the hospital bed, but then have a great person give me that hand up right not handout, but that hand up to say thank you for your service.
Right, and, and I just want to forever give that back. Right, if all the great things you know these heads on the walls that you see right here behind me.
It's because a great American wanted to say thank you for my service. Right, and if all those great things if it stops for me that's the tragedy. Right, I want to make sure that I give back and, and he introduced me to my business partner now, Ken beam, where we started
gallantry global logistics.
Right, and whereas service disabled veteran owned freight forwarding company that specializes in the shipments of consequence you know and the whole purpose of my company is to hire vets.
Right, you know the Houston Astros right the baseball team.
The guy that owns him his name is Jim crane will he owns crane logistics. Right, I can do the red net math there there man there's that's a big runway of things that you know of an industry that can grow into something of significance right.
And so we've been doing that for probably you know five years now. Last year we did the best that we've ever done and we looked at double that this year, I mean we're just growing like crazy I'm already talking to all these.
We're going to get to Texas veteran commission to other places to try to hire as many vets and first responders as we can. And it's just it's just been a great deal.
What are some of the success stories that you've seen with these veterans that also were looking for a purpose and then finding this community that you've built.
Success or like with me personally know with with the veterans themselves, like, I mean, yeah.
I mean, I talked about Chris right I really think that all you need to give a veteran is a purpose and a community.
They'll do the rest. Right, they know the hard work they know the ethics of work ethic you got to have you know there's nothing given. They just really need that mentorship that guidance.
And understanding that hey if I just keep doing this, I'm going to get to hear. And you know perfect example is Chris is he man, he's a, we call him the combat wombat. He's from Australia.
And fourth of July he got his American citizenship right he joined the American Marines got blown up. And you know I met him through David Ferri.
Well I had him you know back he was one of the guys that worked with me at five toes.
He was turning a Glock stippled. Right, he was the guy that do it right he'll go back there you know put some heavy metal medicine on drink about 14 Red Bulls and just go to stippling and, and, but now he did so much more than that.
But he's just a great guy and and and going from that first kid right that I met whenever he walked into the office to now going through the, you know, the five toes and showing it's, you know, him grow through there to now he's like one of the lead,
you know, the sales person for this huge you know company called Invisio like all the hearing headset. Right, you know they're big competitor like Peltor MSA right.
And now he's running entire territory just you know transition into just crushing it all because he just had that culture and that mentorship.
Absolutely. Well it's not funny but this is not such the case when it comes to first responders but when I think about the military especially you know young men and women that went pretty much straight from high school.
Like you said, the ability within is incredible but they've also been given this infrastructure of you know housing and food and all the things that the average person has to figure out for themselves.
So when they're transitioning out by building a community around to create some stability, that's then creating that environment for them to thrive again versus the whole area being completely having to be built up from scratch.
100% right. The analogy is instead of them always trying to swim up to the water to get air. They've got that air and they're swimming toward their goal.
Right, and that's again why I'm so adding about jobs with with gallantry is that's what's going to get them to the next place is that job you know I already got another marine here that's working with me you know Juan he's awesome.
I can't get away from a man, you know, just give them the leadership trainings you know but he may not be here much longer he may go do you know bigger and better things and that that's the whole point is just to be that springboard that incubator to where they can come in understand,
you know that that here's that that safety net that culture that community that camaraderie that they remember. And now let me just focus on being awesome.
Beautiful. Well, one more area before we hit the closing questions.
Through Ryan we did a fireside chat just over a year ago and I interviewed to Iwo Jima veterans on stage. Incredible just hearing the two of them bounce up one was a was a medic the other one was a think of the marine from remembering rightly now.
But that's a generation that's just so sad because we're starting to lose so many of them. Talk to me about best defense foundation and what you're doing with the World War Two veterans.
Yeah, thank you so much for asking about the best defense foundation because well we are absolutely changing lives and in our 100% you know devoted in making sure that those men if they are able and would like to go back to the battlefield with our battlefield
return program that that's what they do that they get to respect you know it's it is our model to take care of those that took care of us right and those men and not only took care of us but took care of the world right to push back evil and,
and I was just on a board meeting before coming here right and and we've got a great strategy for this year we're we're taking guys back to you I Jima we're taking guys back to Vietnam this year we're taking guys back to Normandy obviously that was one of the big thing,
you know our founder Donnie Edwards, great American success story you know come you know from one of eight out of Southern California, put himself through college played football for 14 years I think only four people have more tackles and him ever to play
football right just an amazing guy but more importantly loves this country and has been taking guys to World War Two veterans back you know for for over a decade and and when he you know when we got partnered together, you know it was our job to try to not only
take care of the World War Two guys but also the special operators through our stronghold program and and we've been very fortunate with through Utah patriots that the guy literally built a multimillion dollar place up at 10,000 feet to where we can take guys from the special operations
community for a week do a stronghold program where we take medical you know care guys physical care guys intricate guys just all this stuff and just for a week give them that transition, you know support that we were, we talked about but, but yeah this year is going to be a great year we got a lot of great stuff
going and and to your point. There's nothing that that's more powerful, and I say that word intently. There's nothing more powerful than being on the sands of Omaha Beach standing there on June 6 with a guy that was there that day.
Right to say I went here my buddy died there, and more importantly to see the love that the French people have to our veterans that liberated them right that they remember that we're the reason they don't speak German, right that they remember that we are the reason why we are
living a free world and it's kind of it's it's obviously gratifying but it's also kind of upsetting because I'm like that guy how come Americans don't feel like these people right here because this is what they need to see is these men are the literal, you know definition of what keeps
this America keep this globe free and and if you ever want to get involved, obviously we take care of them it's free to them by the way, we take care of every single penny.
The airfare airfare Delta is a great, they give us an entire charter plane that we go, you know to Normandy every year with them.
But the other ones it's it's they take care of the airfare, but we also have a healthcare provider that's going to be with them the entire time.
Right, because he to your point they're getting older right. And so somebody is going to be with them the entire time to make sure that every need is met and.
I mean there's no better way to send them off, you know through the last part of their life, then to show them that what they did was worth it. I shared a video a few days ago now and it was a World War Two veteran trying Belgian chocolate for the first time in
Belgium, and it was just you know and again like you saw the immense gratitude of the Belgian people, but you had this veteran that returned now to try you know this delicacy from this country that I'm sure was was nowhere to be found in the middle of you know
Bastogne for example. So I mean this it's it's incredible. We just came back about all the bullets we literally just got back from there and to see them open up like they did we took four guys back.
You know literally, you know, he was telling us I was right here.
Right, I mean it's it's again I just keep using the word powerful because it is the most powerful experience you can ever go if you ever want to volunteer, you know, let tell people let us know because you know all these healthcare providers there's all volunteers that
people devote their time to to come and be with these men through through this process. Beautiful. Well you hit on something I actually want to talk about earlier and we're going to circle around now before we close out.
As someone who came from another country.
I truly envisioned the American dream as being, you know, in a country where anything's possible and I think that's the case in the UK as well, but it's just gray and wet and cold. So I live in Florida.
But, but, you know, I truly believe in that you can come here from and I've had so much this is what I love about the early part of the interview asking about parents and grandparents the immigration stories I've heard phenomenal like I just spoke to a neuroscientist and his
and he was first generation so but where I see an absence and this is, you know, from an immigrant and also domestically people that were born here, as I feel like we've lost that message would be our chest and say we're the greatest country in the world and wave
a flag. But if you look at the statistics is a lot of areas that we're not. So it's that humility that's going to improve that but this is absolutely an incredible place, you know, America is not about, you know, the politicians or, you know, the, the corporations, it's about the country
and the people. So, how have we got away from, you know, the initial American dream that the humble element of just a home and a place to your kids to play safely and to raise them. But also as you touched on earlier, being in a town where like well I'm just going to grow up
and you know, and, and work the oil rigs or whatever. How do we refine that you truly could be an astronaut if you grew up in a little town in Texas that you truly can be anything this is the land of opportunity. As long as we invest in it and don't just sit on our laurels
and like I said, mindlessly wave a flag without doing anything to make it better. Well, culture is the answer. Right, right culture is the answer to everything you know, I don't care who you voted for right a president's not going to fix us it's the people.
Right, we've got to realize, and I think what lit the fire on the unfortunate disdain for the country is social media, right, because the the loudest voice gets the most views.
And just because you're the loudest voice doesn't mean you're right. Right, or doesn't mean you're all right. And this this unfortunate narrative that we're a racist country, right that we were founded on these horrible values is just inaccurate false right it's factually
not to be true. Are we perfect No, of course not we're not perfect. But it doesn't mean that that American flag that's right there is not the biggest brightest beacon for hope that's ever existed.
Right. And so, how do we come over that is just understanding that and giving it giving us grace.
Right that that America's 243 years old and just because this vehicle right that we built 243 years ago might need to all change or attire rotation doesn't mean you're running off a cliff and it's evil.
Right means you give it love. And again you understand why that vehicle has gotten us to where we are. And it is the people right and it's just the fact that you can come here, whether you're Mexican American British Irish Swahili and whatever it is.
You can come here and be American. Right, Teddy Roosevelt eloquently said there is no 5050 was being an American, you either are you're not right and so you want to, you know, heal the division in this country, you want to bring unity back.
Why don't we start at our identity by just calling ourselves Americans. Right, like again I'm half Mexican you'll never hear me say that I'm Mexican American. Why because Mexico did nothing for me. Right, Americans did.
Right, and for sure am I proud for my Mexican heritage. Absolutely. And for sure, you know, I am proud you know love everything about it and not, you know, mad about it but it's the same sentence, it's Americans that there.
As you probably know one of the always tell the story. His name is Mo. He's half German half Italian, I took him a Cowboys game, right, because that's what you do when you come to America. You know, this was a couple years ago so we actually won the game.
But he was in the stadium he's like you know what john Wayne, you know what I love about this country.
And I said what man and he said, the fact that you can come here and be American. I was like, what do you mean, he said man, when I go to Germany they say you're not German, you're Italian.
When I go to Italy they say you're not Italian you're German. And it said, because they do that to me I never felt like I have a home.
I said here, you can be an American. And I think that we've just got to really come back to that that that sense of unity of that it's our differences that makes us great.
Right, it's our differences that that makes us better it's our differences that makes us beautiful.
And to stop thinking that just because somebody thinks something different doesn't mean that they're evil. Right, just means they're different and we've got to really, you know, because that's what I whenever I go and you know I've been very fortunate to ask to speak to
places all over the place. That's what I speak about right is just having that grace when we talk to each other like I didn't lose my leg for a public and our democrat.
I lost it for Americans.
Right, and that's what we always need to remember.
That's what I love about the UK and again I don't know if it's kind of devolved at all. Very, very recently because this whole woke culture thing that hopefully will go away consume but
Well, and not to cut you off, but you always about the world culture like, I don't have a political disagreement with it, what I do, but my biggest disagreement with our. What I say that's bad about the world culture is that its core.
Right, I can't do this because this person's racist. Right, I can't get here because this person is sexist. I can't do this be I can't can't can't and it ultimately trying to tell you that this American dreams not real, and I am proof that unequivocally
The American dream is real that you can go from a kid that literally watches his parents go to jail to be on stage standing there, donning a coveted green beret something that less than 1% of the military ever gets to do to another day being on a parade stand
Getting the Silver Star, the third highest forward for better to another state being in the Oval Office with the president. Right. That can happen here to hold owning two companies and selling one like all the things I do. Why, because I'm not a victim. I'm a victor.
Right, I'll never let my circumstances dictate my direction. And I dang sure I'm not blaming anybody for it. Right. Here's here's the news Fox News alert right life sucks for everybody. Right. So if you're rich if you're poor if you're British or American whoever you're I mean we all got challenges we're going to deal with in life.
What are you going to do about it. Right when life puts you in the face or you're going to dig your heels in lean forward and fight hard. Right, are you going to go in the fetal position and blame somebody for it. And again, I didn't mean to cut you off but that's the problem that I have with that culture is
It's just, it's a victim and I just don't I won't subscribe to. I think the problem that I have with it is two truths can exist at once. So I'll give you a perfect example currently, something can happen, you know to the Israelis in Gaza, that was horrific.
And then the response to that can be equally horrific or even worse those two truths are simultaneous it's not one or the other. When it comes to what we're talking about some of the things that the British did my ancestors did in other countries was awful.
Hands down horrendous you know we've been complicit in genocide and all kinds of things we were the first people to actually come up with the concentration camps in the Boer War.
There's some pretty bad things that we've done. But, you know, we've also as you progress given countries back and now what I love about the UK is it is this beautiful tapestry of the world.
But more often than not, they all call themselves British.
And so you have black Asian, you know, Middle Eastern with a Glaswegian accent with a Cardiff accent, and it's the most incredible thing because they represent the world.
And none of them are saying oh yeah but you know you owe me all this because of what happened to my great great great great great grandfather. Today is today.
If we take down statues and try and eradicate all the bad stuff and forget about it. That's not good we're not going to learn from it. But also we are here today, you know, and most of us were born in generation we weren't in World War Two we weren't slaves
and we weren't all these things. So if we come together rather than be divided, which sadly if we're talking about politics is obviously the reason that some of these media and political parties cleave us, you know, if we pull together and we see each other as British as American,
then I think you get part of that woke thing becomes null and void then and we just move forward together. But if we pigeonhole ourselves, and you know I'm African American or I'm Irish American or whatever.
No, it's the same with the unions in the fire service we got the black union of Hispanic Union, the word union means all of us together.
We are all firefighters we got to get away from that pigeonhole bullshit and back to just simply being this community that we're all proud of.
Absolutely. And Morgan Freeman said it best right you want to end racism stop talking about it. Right. You just this famous 60 minutes swing right I'm going to start, you know, stop referring to you as a white man, and you stop referring to me as a black man, or just men.
Right. And there's another woman that she, for that comment. I can't think of top my head but she's like I don't want to be the first woman, this, I just want to be that. Exactly. Right. I want to be known for my achievement, not that I was a woman and did it but that I did it.
Yeah, 100% that's why people are like oh you know you glad now we've got, you know, first woman president or first black presidents like I just want a good president that's honest, that pulls us back together again rather than divides us.
I don't care what hangs between their legs who they sleep with you know who they pray to. I just want someone that's going to lead from the front lead by example, and bring this country back together, regardless of all the other, you know, the skin color or all the other things.
Right, right. I couldn't agree more, you know, I think we had it in the 90s, this colorblind thing you know the realize that just because there, there's a racist out there doesn't mean we are systemically racist people.
Right, it just means, you know, there are eight holes in the country. They're everywhere. Yeah.
Don't give them the microphone, all the shit bags don't give them the microphone but we do. That's just the problem and I keep, I keep going back to just having using grace. Right, giving each other grace for our flaws and realizing that we all fall short of grace.
You know, grace from God the same.
Right, the Pope don't get near to God nowhere. See he falls. That's just like I do. We have to surrender to him and we're all image bearers and with that is where how we're going to come together.
Absolutely. Well, I want to be mindful of your time I know you've got snowmen to make so I just throw some quick closing questions at you.
The first one I love to ask, is there a book or are there books that you love to recommend, it can be related to our discussion today or completely unrelated.
Well, I'm always going to start with the Bible.
Yeah, that but that's obviously the book that changed my life. I read it every single day. I work on my faith with with Christ you know if you ask me, you know, my identity, I'm not a green beret, I'm a believer in Christ, right like that's that's who I am and so that's one from a modern book
there's a book that I read not too long ago called Comfort Crisis. Have you heard of it.
Michael Easter on the show.
Oh, great book. Yeah.
I loved about it was just, as you as you know then right so that definitely was another book that I highly recommend.
There are a few of them that I've been reading no chip war have you read chip war. No, I haven't.
It's going to be a very interesting book. It has nothing to do about, you know, really the content that we talked to the one thing that I've been trying to do always have some type of personal growth.
Right, and I'm willing to get out of my comfort zone with this it, it was written, or is written to articulate the microchip right Silicon Valley, is it because of Google is because of the silicon wafers that microchips are built on.
So, and it talks about in the 50s 40s when the first microchip was built to now, where they are all built at right and this incredibly interesting fight that we're in with China with Russia, who's going to make this you know, the, the, the chip that's in that
right the most advanced chip on the planet it's made in Taiwan. Right, what are we going to have what's going to happen if China takes Taiwan. Right, and like all the like it's a very very very interesting book that I highly recommend so those three would be the three that I would recommend
there's a there's a lot of other ones that I like to read but yeah.
Brilliant. Yeah, I mean it's interesting, relying so much on overseas industry it does make us vulnerable.
Yeah.
What about films or documentaries.
Oh man, you gotta watch Banner Brothers. Absolutely.
Right, you can't be my friend for if you hadn't watched my business partner of five years I realized like two years ago he hadn't watched it I'm like, okay, we can't do another thing until you go home and watch that right now.
Another series that I like obviously is The Chosen, I think they did a great job of articulating the gospel I think it's it's changing lives and how it's, you know, bringing new believers into the gospel.
So that that's definitely one that I highly recommend.
I'm not really a movie watcher though so I can't I can't really help you out there.
I had a Captain Dale die on a couple of times he taught, I did stunt show in Japan and he came and did a mini boot camp for us like a military boot camp so I got to meet him there and he's been on the show since.
And then the guy that played the medic doc in the band of brothers he was on as well so it's pretty interesting hearing the behind the scenes stories and you know the way they kind of squeezed out some of those performances from from the actors.
I mean, incredible job.
Right, they did an absolute incredible job.
Documentaries I can't think of any else top my head documentaries.
Yeah, I don't watch a lot of TV man. No worries. I just watched the one they just put on Netflix it was about the Jerry Springer show.
And if you want to see one of the reasons when we took a right hand turn in morality and you know what we consider appropriate to pump through our screens.
You see I mean I'm just, I'm not going to put it any other way the horrible human beings that were behind that show and the discarding of the welfare of their guests, you know, and don't get me wrong these people will go in there and say I want to be on your show but
they deserve exactly and it resulted in in a murder and all kinds of stuff but yeah that was a you know kind of a nauseating thing to watch but you saw that was really the, the origin story of reality television of love this narcissism on social media, even
even on news and the way I've, you know politicians act in these election times, you can see that origin story of the Jerry Springer show so it's interesting.
Well the one thing like going back to like why I tell you I don't really know any, you know, I've really believe, you know, the words you say your ears here.
Right. What your ears here your brain believes what your brain believes your heart feels.
And you can transfer words with eyes, right so what you see your brain believes like so I'm very very mindful of the content that I watch like I've never seen Game of Thrones.
Right. I've never seen I've never even seen Yellowstone, because I was told it's never been kid appropriate right and there's like there's just things that I don't feel my life with because I don't want that in my head, because I want to be focused on this
time from an emotional health. Right. And that's just something that I'm very very adamant, adamant about and ultimately, you know the most finite resource you'll ever have is your time.
Right. And, you know, where is your time going to best suit you is it going to best suit you watching stranger things right or something whatever that is right.
Or is it going to be you know again read a book called chip or, you know, absolutely. All right, well then the next question is there a person that you'd recommend to come on this show as a guest to speak to the first responders military and associated
professions of the world.
Hmm.
I mean there's a couple that come off, you know, the top my head I think that Donnie Edwards would definitely be one right because he has experience in the NFL I think he would be a different, you know, breed right that you may not have had that vantage point
but he also loves this country.
There's a friend of mine that his name is Cole Morrison, that I got no problem get you in touch with he was in Syria, then he was in fifth group, but he's one of the very few OTA commanders that was in Syria, so he's got a very unique, you know story to tell.
I'm trying to think of, of a first responder up here.
Let me think do some thinking and I'll get back to you. Sorry I don't have anything.
No, well both of those that you've mentioned would be great as well so if we're able to help I'd love to get both from I mean talking about the best defense foundation deeper would be fantastic in itself.
Yeah, he's, he's a better American success story than I am right.
And he's just a great guy, and you can learn a lot from him again because like me he just didn't. He's not a victim, he's a victor.
Mm hmm. Yeah. And the same with Cole I mean there's the whole Syrian thing I mean we know for a long time there's been, you know, such conflict and those poor people have been so oppressed so with that, having this this interesting turn now that would be a very fascinating conversation
to when when Trump said we decimated ISIS, like he was the guy, you know, he was the ODA in the, the amount of effect that Green Berets had over there like it, it is it's inspiring it's incredible it's amazing what he was able to do with so little resources.
Amazing. Well I'd love to hear that like I said. All right, well then the last question before we make sure everyone knows where to find you and any other areas you want to send them. What do you do to decompress.
Oh, I'm definitely an avid outdoorsman. You know, as you can tell, right, I love there's a love hunting I love the outdoors, I know what the reason why I love it because it's hard. Right, yes, it's never given. There's nothing more spiritual than being in the outdoors, as God intended it.
Right, no CGI no animatronics just you that grass that river that tree that animal in trying to navigate through that like there's just something spiritual about it you know I I'm taking guys out hunting next week, you know, but just for that healing purpose, yourself, you know I love.
So I definitely love that.
You got to exercise.
You know I tell everybody like there's not only is it a coincidence but you know scientifically it's been proven the more physically healthy you are the more mentally healthy you will be right and so that's something that I always like being again vulnerable with you man like last year sucked for me.
I had surgery in nine in February of last year, and to go from this guy this climb mountains jumped out of airplanes done all this stuff as an amputee now I'm back in a wheelchair.
And my leg just didn't get better, and it didn't get better, and throughout the entire year. I'm talking about all the way to Thanksgiving.
Like two days before Thanksgiving I finally got a leg that allowed me to walk the way like you want to know how this is how intimate a relationship I have with gratitude.
James I was in tears with gratitude on Thanksgiving because I was able to walk.
Like it was just incredible again going God is doing this to me not for me, or for me not to me. Right. I just knew God what is this what what are you teaching me and like the whenever I was taking that step just like I was in tears because of.
I knew that this was what God is wanting me to do is bring it back to him. And so,
the exercise is definitely something that I do and then obviously, you know, my faith that that's, I should have said it first but the, you know, the the meditation and the prayer I mean I'm sure I got it, I mean it's right here right like it's something that that I hope everyone
can can can lean on is that relationship.
Absolutely. Well we've talked about a host of things so where the best places to find you online, the best Defense Foundation and anywhere else you want to send people.
Yeah, I don't do social media, right so like I'm not here to find followers I'm not here to you know gain all this stuff like I'm not an anti guy I just, I know thyself, and I just have time you know it's it's a it's a time commitment that I don't want to commit to.
I can do another things but you can, I do have a website johnwaynewalding.com if you like for speaking and stuff like that.
Just go there and then the about us, you know, make that happen.
The best defense foundation.org best defense foundation.org is where you'll find stuff about them and.
And, yeah.
Beautiful. Well I want to thank you so so much for firstly again as we touched on your courageous vulnerability I mean some of these stories that people are talking about, you know that I understand that they're opening some wounds and you know that they're
refinding that courage to revisit these conversations but there is so much value I think for people, especially men when they hear a green beret Navy SEAL a SWAT operator being vulnerable because it debunks that men don't cry BS that a lot of us were were raised on.
So I want to thank you so so much for being so generous with your time and coming on the behind the shield podcast today.
It's it's trust me when I say you're worth it. Right. Whenever people tell me thank you for your service I don't say you're welcome you're worth it.
Right because in the 70s, people weren't asking veterans to come on right but now they are and so I don't take that invitation lightly I don't take your listeners lightly that they want to hear this little redneck from Grosbeck Texas, you know story.
I'm just so fortunate and blessed and you know humbled to be able to be on here man so thanks for what you're doing. Thanks for the lives are changing. I appreciate you.