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To learn more about Thorne, go to episode 323 of the Behind the Shield podcast with Joel

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Totoro and Wes Barnett.

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Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast.

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As always, my name is James Gearing and this week it is my absolute honor to welcome on

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the show Navy Seal veteran and One More Wave team member Rob Garnett.

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Now in this conversation we discuss a host of topics.

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From Rob's exposure to surfing as a child, his journey into the military, his experience

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both pre and post 9-11, kindness on the battlefield, his unique perspective on service, helping

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the adaptive athlete, mental health, the healing power of surfing and so much more.

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Now before we get to this incredible conversation as I say every week, please just take a moment.

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Go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback and

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leave a rating.

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Every single 5 star rating truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making it easier for

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others to find.

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And this is a free library of well over 1000 episodes now.

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So all I ask in return is that you help share these incredible men and women stories so

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I can get them to every single person on planet earth who needs to hear them.

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So that being said, I introduce to you Rob Garnett.

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Enjoy.

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Well Rob I want to start by saying thank you so much for taking the time and coming on

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the Behind the Shield podcast today.

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Absolutely James, it's a pleasure.

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Thanks for having me.

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So where on planet earth are we finding you this afternoon?

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I am in San Diego, California, so the southern most part of Southern California.

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Beautiful.

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Well I would love to start at the very beginning of your timeline.

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So tell me where you were born and tell me a little bit about your family dynamic, what

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your parents did, how many siblings.

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Sure so I'm from Southern California.

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I was born in Southern California and then bounced around all over the place.

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My parents divorced pretty early on so I was bouncing between mother and father's house

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in Southern California and then my mom moved to Northern California which is much different,

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much more rural.

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And so we stayed up there until probably I was finishing high school for so probably

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16, 17 we moved back down to Southern California and really got back into the water.

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That's where I kind of got reconnected with getting back into surfing and everything to

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do with the ocean.

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Dressed up school and went into college lasted for less than a year before I dropped out

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of college and ended up going to school to be a commercial diver for a little bit.

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Did that for a little bit, wasn't really working for me and that's what led me to join the

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Navy.

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What about profession?

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What were your parents doing?

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My mother worked at a grocery store and my father was a roofer so he's a trade.

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Did you have any military members in the extended family at that time?

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No, not really.

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I had a grandfather that served in Korea in the US Army but that was really it.

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No cousins, no friends or relatives really that I was close with that had served in the

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military.

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So how young were you when you first did the aquatic sports and then when did that end?

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When did you go north?

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We did lots of aquatics early on.

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My mom was very into making sure we were water safe because we were always at the beach and

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so we learned to swim very early and then we did competitive swimming and then later

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water polo all through school.

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So we were always very comfortable in the water and then lots and lots of time in the

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ocean and then in the lakes and rivers up in Northern California.

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And were you surfing as a young child or was that something you actually got into later?

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No, I did.

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I started surfing in probably middle school so 10, 11, 12 I think is when I started doing

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some surfing.

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We did a couple trips to Hawaii, really got hooked and some good instruction out there

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and that's what kind of led me to keep going with it.

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When you look back now and the reason I ask this, when those of us in uniform start having

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some sort of mental health challenge, the mistake is to just look at where you're in

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Fallujah, you were at the 9-11, whatever the acute event was in uniform and there's a kind

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of disregarding of what happened to us from birth or arguably even in vitro forward to

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when we ever put the uniform on the first place.

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When you reflect back now your early life, were there any contributing factors to struggles

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that you maybe had later on?

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For sure.

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I think just having your parents split up is pretty traumatic and then my father was

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pretty abusive to my mother so all that stuff I'm sure affected me at a very young age and

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set me on the path to some mental health struggles later on, absolutely.

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Would you say that also sent you into the protector role as well maybe having seen people

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that were vulnerable and feeling like you wanted to be the protector one day?

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Absolutely.

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Yeah, seeing those things happen in your home for sure kind of keys you up to notice at

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other places for sure.

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What about career aspirations?

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What were you dreaming of becoming when you were in high school?

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I just wanted to do something around the ocean.

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I just loved the idea of being able to do something on the water and so when I went

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to college, to university, I thought I'd do some type of ocean-earing, some type of

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oceanography type stuff and so that's what I thought I was going to go do.

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I think there's a lot of marine biologists that never finished up in the States, that's

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for sure.

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Absolutely, absolutely.

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We all thought we were going to work at SeaWorld and train the dolphins.

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Absolutely, then you find out that dolphins actually aren't very happy anyway so there

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we go.

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No, exactly.

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All right, well then walk me through into commercial diving.

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I think this is one of the interesting things for a lot of people listening.

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Actually I've got a college education but it was a trade school that sent me into the

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actual profession I adored.

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How did you find diving and what were your experiences in that world specifically?

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Sure.

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I was going to school for university up in Long Beach, California, which is a big kind

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of longshoreman and lots of commercial diving, lots of shipping and all kinds of things like

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that.

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That was just something I was drawn to.

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I was still really drawn to the ocean so I thought, hey, I can go to this trade and so

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I went to this school also in Long Beach, California.

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There was choices with becoming a commercial diver.

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You can become a medical person, maybe like an EMT that would help run the hyperbaric

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chamber, take care of the folks that are diving.

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You become an inspector.

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You might go underneath the ships or oil platforms and inspect what it looked like or you could

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become a welder and actually be the person doing it.

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The medical thing kind of spoke to me so I became a med tech.

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I went through the process of learning all those skill sets to run the hyperbaric chambers.

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You also become a commercial diver.

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Then went through some EMT training so I had that medical training and then finished the

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school.

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I think it was about three or four months.

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I can't really remember.

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Then I was placed.

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They were pretty good about placing you at a job.

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I went right to an oil platform in Galveston, Texas.

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When I got there, I just realized that it was really hard work, a lot of roughnecks.

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It's really just a construction site but on the water.

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It's not any different than roofing or laying brick or any other hard physical labor.

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What I noticed was I wasn't allowed to dive.

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When you're new, you're just kind of holding the hose for the more senior guys.

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When you make money, the money we all think you make when you're commercial diving, it's

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when you're diving, not when you're holding the hose.

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I was making minimum wage and really unable to pay my student loans.

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That made me start looking for other ways to make some money.

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I've had a couple of interactions with people that work the platforms.

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To be completely fair, it's almost like a belittling of trying to make an impact on

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the firefighter work week.

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Our men and women in uniform work 56 hours.

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They work 80 hours if they're forced a day of overtime.

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There's no badge of honor with that.

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It breaks down the body.

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It breaks down the mind.

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A lot of the kind of poo-pooing came from, well, I worked in the oil platforms and we

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were fine.

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It's kind of an interesting perspective.

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What did you see as far as the physical and mental health of the people that were working

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on the platforms?

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Is it an old school kind of attitude to maybe something that needs to be more progressive

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as well?

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It was incredibly old school.

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Just kind of, let's just get to work.

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If you were hurt, you're supposed to work.

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As soon as everyone got off, it was just kind of a big drinking fest.

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Everyone would drink until it was time to go to work and then just do that over and

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over again.

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No one really cared about anyone else, to be honest.

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It's just like, hey, let's get up and get working and get some hours and then go back.

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I'm sure it's a place where they can use lots of kind of revamping for how they kind of

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handle each other.

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Absolutely.

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That's the impression I got at least.

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At least from these two gentlemen that gave me the honor of their feedback.

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What about the transition into the Navy then?

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What made you decide to go in the uniform?

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Sure.

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Funny enough, I would get these notices because I wasn't paying my student loans.

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I'd get these notices that said, hey, you're late.

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We're going to send the guys to come collect.

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I looked on the back of these notices I kept getting.

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It was ways to defer student loans.

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One of them was to join the service.

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I was like, okay, I can do this.

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It'll get me away from it for a little bit.

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That's what led me to join the Navy.

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I joined the Navy.

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I went into the Navy recruiting office to figure out what I was going to do.

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I really thought that I could go be a commercial diver in the Navy.

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I thought I could be a Navy diver.

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I thought, hey, I've already done this.

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I've already got these certifications.

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They should let me in.

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They flat out told me, no, it wasn't open.

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I wasn't going to be able to do that.

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They said, hey, there's this other field that you could try out for where they do diving.

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They pointed me towards BUDs, towards SEAL training.

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That's how I joined the Navy.

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That was really my path to going at all was to stop the bleeding and figure out a way

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to pay my student loans.

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With the background of surfing, water polo, and then commercial diving, I would make an

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assumption knowing somewhat about what BUDs looks like and the training and the confidence

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and the entanglements and all these different drills that you guys do that that would have

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served you well.

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How did it actually serve you when you were in the program?

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You're right.

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I was comfortable in the water.

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It's still a shock.

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It's still challenging.

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For example, I met guys that I showed up to training with that had never even seen the

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ocean before, that had made it through the selection process and had been through boot

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camp and a couple other things to be able to get to BUDs.

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They had never seen the ocean.

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I definitely felt like I had a leg up.

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I was already a strong swimmer.

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I'd been swimming my whole life.

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For me to get into the water and swim when we had swimming, we call them evolutions in

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BUDs, it was a break.

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I'd say, okay, good.

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I know I can be out here.

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No one's going to mess with me and I'm confident in the water.

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Absolutely, all that water time as a kid and growing up was beneficial.

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What about the mindset side?

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I know I've had many, many members of the Tisale community on here now and there is

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no super soldier prototype.

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More often than not, they're not the big gorilla type lads.

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Over and over again, there's usually such a strong why behind their story of how they

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continued and other people rang the bell.

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You've got the aquatic confidence, but obviously there's just that insane suffering.

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There's the insane cold.

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What was it that kept you going and not becoming one of the attrition statistics?

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For sure.

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The attrition was really high when I went to BUDs.

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00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:42,640
I was in the early 90s.

239
00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:46,520
The Navy and Naval Special Warfare were trying some different programs to figure out, hey,

240
00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:52,240
how can we get more people to be successful and not a trite from training?

241
00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:58,200
They sent several of us as a pilot course to a couple of SEAL units before we ever went.

242
00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:01,400
The thought was if you're around these guys and you see that they're just regular humans,

243
00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:06,360
they're not like you said, these super humans that we have these ideas about, then maybe

244
00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:08,280
you'd be more inclined to not quit.

245
00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:13,480
I went to a SEAL unit in Puerto Rico and stayed there for I think four or five months just

246
00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:19,340
training and being hazed by the guys all the time as each group would come through.

247
00:14:19,340 --> 00:14:24,600
What I found was that all that was rough and it got me ready to go, but I didn't have a

248
00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:26,640
really good family background.

249
00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:31,840
My mom was great, but I didn't really have a lot of family that I could go to.

250
00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:36,160
When I saw these guys, I'm like, oh man, these guys, they get to go on these great trips

251
00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:37,160
together.

252
00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:41,120
They have these amazing adventures and they've all been through this whatever it is together.

253
00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:42,120
I wanted that.

254
00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:45,160
I thought, oh man, this is like these guys get to, they're like rock stars.

255
00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:46,160
They get to travel around.

256
00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:47,440
They get to do what they'd want to do.

257
00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:51,000
They stay together all the time and they seem to really enjoy life.

258
00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:52,640
I thought, oh, I really want that.

259
00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:53,640
That really inspired me.

260
00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:54,640
I go, I want to be that.

261
00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:55,800
I want to be a part of this group.

262
00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:57,400
I want to have friends like this.

263
00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:02,880
These guys all talked about how they've been friends for 10, 15 plus years living in the

264
00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:03,880
SEAL teams.

265
00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:05,200
I thought, oh, that's something I want.

266
00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:09,040
When I was lucky enough to then go to Bud's after that, I knew I was like, I want to get

267
00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:10,040
to a team.

268
00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:11,040
I've seen these guys.

269
00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:13,000
I know that I think I can do it.

270
00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:17,520
That was a big motivator for me was to get through it and catch back up with some of

271
00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:21,480
these people and be able to experience what they described every time they came through

272
00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:23,560
to do training.

273
00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:27,120
I know you entered quite a few years before 9-11.

274
00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:29,400
What was the training environment?

275
00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:35,480
Were they still in that more Vietnam mindset that you hear some of the older SEALs being

276
00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:37,300
experienced with?

277
00:15:37,300 --> 00:15:39,080
What was that transition then?

278
00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:42,500
What was the 9-11 switch for you personally?

279
00:15:42,500 --> 00:15:43,500
For sure.

280
00:15:43,500 --> 00:15:45,040
It was interesting.

281
00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:49,560
When I first got to my first SEAL team on the West Coast, there was still, I think there

282
00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:53,560
was two Vietnam guys that were at the team.

283
00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:54,840
They'd been around for a long time.

284
00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:58,320
Both of them had broken service and they'd gotten out and come back in.

285
00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:01,480
A lot of the training that happened was still very much based on Vietnam.

286
00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:04,360
Now, there'd been some other things that have popped up since then.

287
00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:08,040
Obviously, there'd been people had gone to Grenada, people had gone to Panama, and there'd

288
00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:09,920
been a couple other little things.

289
00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:16,480
Everything really happened until 1993 when Somalia started getting really hot.

290
00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:21,400
When I checked in my first team, there were people still coming back from operations in

291
00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:22,400
Somalia.

292
00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:27,920
That was a big change for us was just in 1995 when I got to the team, people were still

293
00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:31,960
going to Somalia and Mogadishu.

294
00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:37,840
We were switching then from the Vietnam style of operating into what they had seen in the

295
00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:39,880
cities of Mogadishu.

296
00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:40,880
That was a big change.

297
00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:43,640
Just while I was there, I watched things change.

298
00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:47,760
Like you mentioned, it changed again when 9-11 happened and we started deploying in

299
00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:50,080
much larger numbers.

300
00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:53,800
Pre-9-11, where did you find yourself roughly deployed?

301
00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:57,000
Which corners of the world?

302
00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:59,640
Each of the teams at that time were regionally aligned.

303
00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:02,200
I started with SEAL Team 3.

304
00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:04,000
Our main area was the Middle East.

305
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:08,760
We would go to places like Bahrain, Kuwait, or Jordan, all these countries that we had

306
00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:09,760
relationships with.

307
00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:11,440
We would go train with their folks.

308
00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:15,560
It was supposed to be cross-training, but it was always just us training them.

309
00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:19,080
Then we would run into our SBS friends when we would get there and we would all train

310
00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:21,280
everybody together.

311
00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:27,040
But it was really just all those more friendly to Western folks countries.

312
00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:28,040
We would just go on deployment.

313
00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:31,680
We would stay there for several months, do exercises, bounce around, do training, and

314
00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:32,680
then come back.

315
00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:37,920
It was definitely not as focused as it became after 9-11.

316
00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:42,000
Was there any sense, Pree, when you look back now of something like, maybe not even the

317
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:46,920
terrorist attack, but ultimately ending back in Iraq and Afghanistan back then, or was

318
00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:48,800
it more of a status quo?

319
00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:50,960
It was more of a status quo.

320
00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:54,960
It was just, hey, we go over, we do some training, we come back.

321
00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:58,960
Early on, I think the first thing I kind of remember where we were doing real stuff was

322
00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:01,000
when we had embargoes with Iraq.

323
00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:06,120
Saddam Hussein was still trying to make some money so they would smuggle oil and dates

324
00:18:06,120 --> 00:18:13,960
and all kinds of things, and all of us NATO countries would hop on and do these ship interdictions

325
00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:19,920
where we'd stop the boats, turn them back over, and try to stop the flow of illegal

326
00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:21,400
smuggling that was happening.

327
00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:24,360
But really, until that was really the only thing we did, we'd do some ship boardings

328
00:18:24,360 --> 00:18:29,680
and we'd all rotate between us, the Brits, the Danes, the Poles, or whoever happened

329
00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:35,860
to be rotating, boarding these ships out in the Arabian Gulf.

330
00:18:35,860 --> 00:18:40,320
Everything really happened again, aside from that, and that was kind of small, until 9-11

331
00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:45,000
happened, and then obviously Afghanistan and then Iraq.

332
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:48,800
So talk to me about 9-11 that day through your eyes.

333
00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:50,800
Sure.

334
00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:55,280
I was actually a BUDS instructor, so I had rotated from being on the SEAL team, and I

335
00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:59,920
was working in Coronado as a BUDS instructor, and we were just a regular day, and then all

336
00:18:59,920 --> 00:19:03,720
of a sudden it's on the news, and quite shocking, obviously.

337
00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:07,440
We all kind of remember where we were on that day, but I distinctly remember coming into

338
00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:11,800
work and one of the towers had already been hit, and then watching the other one be hit

339
00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:16,680
on TV sitting in our instructor office in the back.

340
00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:19,560
That training had stopped, that we made sure everyone could reach out to their families.

341
00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:26,360
I remember distinctly there were some dudes that were in class and had family in New York,

342
00:19:26,360 --> 00:19:28,720
so we were making sure that everyone could reach out and at least kind of figure out

343
00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:29,720
what was happening.

344
00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:33,640
But for everybody, for the whole world, it was pretty shocking, for sure.

345
00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:34,640
Absolutely.

346
00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:39,560
Now, from a training point of view, not specifics, but a lot of times when something like this

347
00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:40,560
happens, everything shifts.

348
00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:43,920
There's a kind of scrambling to catch up, and then sadly, obviously, learning lessons

349
00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:46,080
from the people that are coming home.

350
00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:51,000
What was that kind of training curve from this Vietnam era with the sprinkling of Somalia

351
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:58,080
to now you're in two arenas within a couple of years of each other?

352
00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:02,480
One of the big things, obviously, was everyone was worried about chemical weapons, and so

353
00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:09,280
the ramp up of training with wearing all that stuff all the time was crazy.

354
00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:10,280
There's so much of it.

355
00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:13,960
We'd spend weeks out in the desert doing all that, using it with vehicles.

356
00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:16,040
So that was a big one.

357
00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:21,080
Another thing that really changed for us from Vietnam on, when SEALs deployed, they'd deploy

358
00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:25,480
in the platoon, which was typically 16 people.

359
00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:28,960
When the war started, we would start deploying with what we called a troop, which was three

360
00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:33,120
platoons, and now we're getting upwards of 50 to 70 guys.

361
00:20:33,120 --> 00:20:34,960
And then entire teams would deploy.

362
00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:36,400
We'd call them squadrons.

363
00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:40,960
And so when it was time for your team to deploy, the entire team would deploy, not just a small

364
00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:46,360
group with maybe an 02 or an 03 in charge.

365
00:20:46,360 --> 00:20:48,120
It would be the full...

366
00:20:48,120 --> 00:20:51,680
The whole command would go, so you'd have 300 plus people would go and deploy.

367
00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:53,360
And so that was a big change for us.

368
00:20:53,360 --> 00:20:55,280
We never operated in big, large numbers.

369
00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:59,360
We became more like a Ranger Battalion with these big, giant groups of people going and

370
00:20:59,360 --> 00:21:02,080
doing big movements that the SEALs had not done before.

371
00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:06,920
And so that was a big change, was those larger numbers and a lot of the biochemical threat

372
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:07,920
training.

373
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:12,360
Those are the two big ones that really, I remember distinctly that it was a different

374
00:21:12,360 --> 00:21:14,720
and kind of new thing that we were doing.

375
00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:19,920
And did you find yourself coming out of BUDs and going back into the deployments?

376
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:20,920
I did.

377
00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:25,720
When 9-11 happened, they actually told us, I remember the headshed of the command of

378
00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:27,840
BUDs, of what we call the center.

379
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:31,200
They said, hey, if you want to go back now, you can get out early.

380
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:33,920
You can leave your rotation time.

381
00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:34,920
Typically it was three years.

382
00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:35,920
You could leave early.

383
00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:37,920
And so I met a couple of guys who just left and went back to the teams.

384
00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:42,480
And so I went and immediately went back to a team in the hopes of deploying.

385
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:43,960
And where did you find yourself deployed?

386
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:46,000
Was it Iraq or Afghanistan?

387
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:47,960
Both, both.

388
00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:53,160
Right back into a team, it was kind of shocking because I was in groups that were deploying

389
00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:57,600
with people that had come through with guys that had been through training when I was

390
00:21:57,600 --> 00:21:58,600
an instructor.

391
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,680
Now I was in a platoon with them and we were all going to war together.

392
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:06,720
So it was definitely surreal to be like, hey, I was just facilitating this training for

393
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:09,660
guys and now I'm in it with them and we're all going together.

394
00:22:09,660 --> 00:22:14,960
So not something I had experienced before, obviously, but everyone was very, at that

395
00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:16,480
time everyone was super patriotic.

396
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:19,120
It doesn't matter what country you're from or like, hey, we're going to do this thing

397
00:22:19,120 --> 00:22:21,320
and get rid of these bad guys.

398
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:25,200
And so whether it was Afghanistan or Iraq, everyone kind of felt the same.

399
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:30,120
Not quite the same vitriol everyone had when he went to Afghanistan, but similar for both

400
00:22:30,120 --> 00:22:31,120
places.

401
00:22:31,120 --> 00:22:34,360
There's a question I always ask anyone who's been deployed.

402
00:22:34,360 --> 00:22:39,880
And then the backstory is simply in America, especially, we get a very polarized view of

403
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:40,880
war.

404
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:44,920
Either kill them all, let God sort them out, stack the bodies or they're all baby killers.

405
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:48,760
And in the middle are the men and women that we send with our flag on their shoulder to

406
00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:53,520
go and protect the innocence of another country.

407
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:58,320
Was there a moment, regardless of the politics, aside from the politics, where you witnessed

408
00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:03,120
with your own eyes that there were some horrific people that needed to be taken care of?

409
00:23:03,120 --> 00:23:04,280
Absolutely.

410
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:08,400
Especially, and more so, I didn't see this as much in Iraq, but Afghanistan, the people

411
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:12,800
that would hurt kids, that was a big thing, especially young boys.

412
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:18,560
It's really hard to not want to serve some justice for the way that they would treat.

413
00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:21,880
I mean, you just see the big trucks, the Jenga trucks we call them with all the decoration

414
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:22,880
on them.

415
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,240
You'd see a guy driving with a young boy and you'd go, I remember when I first got there,

416
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,240
I thought, oh, that's cool.

417
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:29,960
The dad's taking the son with them and they're just out working.

418
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:30,960
But that wasn't the case at all.

419
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,160
That was their person that they were going to just pass around when they went to different

420
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:35,160
spots.

421
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:38,960
And that part really, it's really hard and it's really dug deep into that culture.

422
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:42,640
So it's really hard to look someone in the face and talk seriously with them when you

423
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:43,840
know that's what's going on.

424
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,880
So those people are evil for sure.

425
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:51,320
One of my friends actually was just talking the other day on an interview and we were

426
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:56,600
talking about moral injury and he was deployed in the Middle East during that time.

427
00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:58,360
And he used that very example.

428
00:23:58,360 --> 00:24:02,360
I think it was either an abusive husband or even that kind of element.

429
00:24:02,360 --> 00:24:04,520
And as he said, his hands were tied.

430
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:09,680
And so you're there to be a protector, but you're kind of, you know, the rules and regulations

431
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:14,480
that you work under, you're not actually able to do the human thing, the ethic thing, ethical

432
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,120
thing, which is to stop certain things from happening.

433
00:24:17,120 --> 00:24:21,320
And this is, you know, I think the inability to say the inability to protect, it's not

434
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:22,320
PTSD.

435
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,560
It's the moral injury side, which can be equally detrimental.

436
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:27,840
No, for sure.

437
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:31,920
And I think it's lucky for us in the special operations, doesn't matter where you were,

438
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:36,200
we didn't have to experience as much as the regular folks, the regular infantry folks,

439
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:40,320
the regular Marines, the regular, they just had to stand and deal with that constantly.

440
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:44,880
For us, we, I think we saw it rarely compared to everybody else, but the impact of that

441
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,040
is horrific, as you're saying.

442
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:51,400
Well, the other side of the question that we also never hear really on the news is the

443
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:56,160
kindness and compassion that I've heard over and over again in some of these combat zones.

444
00:24:56,160 --> 00:25:01,320
So when you reflect, what was some of the moments of kindness that you remember?

445
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:05,720
In almost every country I've ever been, when you're in some type of a bad situation, it's

446
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:11,440
always amazing, you know, whether it's Kenya or in Ramadi, when you need some help, regular

447
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:13,200
people want to help other humans.

448
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:17,920
I distinctly being in long protracted gunfights and having men and women come out and give

449
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:24,080
us water or something to eat that are there also, or offering to help or calling other

450
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:28,000
people or wanting to tell you when bad things are about to happen.

451
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:29,420
That happened so many times.

452
00:25:29,420 --> 00:25:30,920
It was quite amazing, for sure.

453
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:31,920
Absolutely.

454
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:36,400
Well, as you progress through, I mean, you know, I know we're going to talk about obviously

455
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:40,880
one more wave and helping our veterans, but I don't really know much about your own specific

456
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:41,880
journey.

457
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:47,040
So did you start having any struggles yourself as you progress through your career?

458
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:48,040
I did.

459
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:53,640
I think for us, it was really easy to just keep deploying all the time.

460
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,600
For the SEAL teams, there's West Coast teams and East Coast teams, they're all on the same

461
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:57,600
street.

462
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:02,760
So you just move from team to team and so during when the wars were really hot and heavy,

463
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,720
every team always needed more people, whether it's because they just needed more people

464
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,960
or someone had gotten injured or hurt or had it couldn't deploy.

465
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:10,800
And so you could just go and go and go.

466
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:14,360
And so I think what happened to a lot of us is you just kept doing it over and over and

467
00:26:14,360 --> 00:26:15,360
over again.

468
00:26:15,360 --> 00:26:16,520
And so you don't take care of yourself.

469
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:20,800
You don't pay attention to when you go on deployment, you know, you kind of become one

470
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:25,800
person and when you come back, you kind of try to switch back to being an at home person.

471
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,280
And eventually those just become the same person.

472
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:34,000
And so I didn't really realize how much that impacted me until I stopped deploying.

473
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:39,600
I had gotten injured in a pretty good IED at the end and ended up having to go spend

474
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,080
some time at Bethesda Medical Hospital.

475
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:47,760
And so when I went, what led up to that was me at home, just not being able to do a lot

476
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:52,040
of things, not being able to relax, not being able to sleep, being angry all the time, drinking

477
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:57,920
too much, getting into the thing that a lot of us do, which is drinking mixed with nicotine,

478
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:01,040
just rotating those back and forth to make it through the day and then not being able

479
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:02,120
to sleep.

480
00:27:02,120 --> 00:27:06,680
And so all of those things together really happened to me at the end of my time, just

481
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:08,800
because I think I wasn't I wasn't busy.

482
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:09,800
I wasn't deploying.

483
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:15,000
And so right at the end, when I retired from the service from the Navy, I got divorced

484
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,840
that same year and kind of had to reset myself.

485
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:24,360
So I know it's the same story that many of us tell, but I think for me, like you to go

486
00:27:24,360 --> 00:27:28,160
back to your question, I started noticing when I stopped deploying all the time and

487
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:33,000
stop being busy, I took a job so that I could kind of hang out and be engaged with my family.

488
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,280
And that's when I realized I was a mess.

489
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:39,080
A lot of people obviously get to a very, very dark place.

490
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,800
And thank God, a lot of ones have been on here found that light right before it was

491
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:43,800
too late.

492
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:47,720
Where was the darkest place you found yourself?

493
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:52,680
When I just realized that I didn't even know my family, I deployed so much and then gone,

494
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:53,680
I'd missed so much.

495
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:57,840
I'd grown away from my my then wife years and years ago.

496
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:00,160
And just we're just doing it because I think we thought we were supposed to.

497
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,440
And I was just miserable.

498
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:06,160
The thing that I think crushed me the most was not being able to sleep.

499
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:11,920
And so I was just angry all the time, very short tempered, and just miserable all the

500
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:12,960
time.

501
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:17,080
And I couldn't figure out what it was, whether it's migraines, which would come on, just

502
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,080
inability to concentrate.

503
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,640
But just for me was like, all of a sudden, I'm by myself.

504
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,440
I'm like, oh, OK, we got to I got to figure this out.

505
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,000
I think there's such a jarring element to the transition.

506
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,240
It can be military, it can be first responders.

507
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:35,080
But you know, you have and you touched on I think this is this is one of the unspoken

508
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:40,080
elements, the busyness, the the adrenaline, the stress, the excitement of some of these

509
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:41,080
professions.

510
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:45,440
At the beginning, you doesn't matter what void you got in your life, you can just fill

511
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,880
it with that career, you know, all these calls that we go on as firefighters, you're not

512
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,860
thinking about, you know, your early life, for example.

513
00:28:51,860 --> 00:28:56,480
But as you progress in, you know, if you find yourself taking deliberately taking over time

514
00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:01,880
or more deployments and maybe reflecting back, there's a reason why you're not allowing yourself

515
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:03,520
to have that time to think.

516
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:08,200
Now you get to the transition and you've got people who have this incredible tribe, the

517
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:12,600
shared suffering that you find in some of these uniform professions really binds us

518
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:13,600
together.

519
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:17,160
You've got the identity, I'm a seal, I'm a firefighter, you got the purpose every day

520
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,220
you wake up, you're truly trying to make the world better.

521
00:29:20,220 --> 00:29:24,140
And then one day, as you said, so many people are divorced and they find themselves alone

522
00:29:24,140 --> 00:29:25,280
in the home.

523
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:26,960
And that can be absolutely crushing.

524
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,520
So what what was next for you?

525
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:34,600
How did you navigate out of that jarring place that you found yourself?

526
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:40,000
Well I was lucky there was towards the end of that time, my time in the I think the military

527
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:45,400
was getting really good, at least here in the US at kind of providing a million different

528
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:51,360
types of therapies, finding stuff that maybe everyone was into, whether it's art, music,

529
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:57,160
outdoor hunting, hiking, backpacking, all kinds of different sports and surfing was

530
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:58,240
one of them.

531
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:03,160
And so the the main hospital here in Southern California for veterans called naval Naval

532
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,440
Hospital San Diego, they had a surf clinic.

533
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:11,280
And so they were teaching actually severely wounded, you know, veterans of all the services,

534
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,520
how to surf or how to get back into surfing post injury.

535
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:18,800
And so me and a couple buddies, we can talk about later Alex and other guy Kyle that that

536
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:22,900
kicked off one way we are all volunteering when we are active duty ourselves.

537
00:30:22,900 --> 00:30:27,840
And so we would volunteer at the surf clinic, helping other people serve.

538
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:32,400
And that's what really kicked it in for me, I realized how much I enjoyed volunteering

539
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:33,680
and helping other people.

540
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:35,280
And you know, it's just like other things.

541
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,400
I think what it did is it took my mind off myself, I could now get back to focusing on

542
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:39,400
something else.

543
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,800
This is just like it was when I was in the teams, I could focus on the mission and, you

544
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:46,880
know, people that worked for me or that I worked for, or whatever it was now I can focus

545
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:51,560
on something else and help these guys and gals do something I loved, which was really

546
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:52,640
everything in the ocean.

547
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,440
And so that's when I really realized that volunteering was going to really help me and

548
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:59,440
I really just dove in and tried to do that a lot.

549
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,840
So talk to me then about the genesis of one more wave.

550
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:09,760
Sure. So Alex, myself and another guy Kyle, so Alex and I had been friends, we had served

551
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:12,520
together in the 90s on SEAL Team 3.

552
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:14,120
And Alex was starting one more wave.

553
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:17,800
And the way one more wave started was we were all volunteering at the surf clinic and a

554
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:20,080
friend of ours came through the program.

555
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:21,440
He was an Air Force person.

556
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:25,760
He was a below the knee amputee and he was just having a really hard time getting back

557
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:27,820
into surfing after his injury.

558
00:31:27,820 --> 00:31:31,320
And so got that board made for him and kind of got hooked.

559
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:33,440
We thought, hey, we're just going to keep doing this.

560
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,480
And so Alex is a talented artist.

561
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,240
He started making t-shirts.

562
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,620
And so we were selling t-shirts out of the back of his truck to try to offset making

563
00:31:42,620 --> 00:31:43,620
some of these boards.

564
00:31:43,620 --> 00:31:45,160
And we kept doing that for a little bit.

565
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:48,400
And so the only boards we made were adaptive surfboards at first.

566
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:50,480
And that was for people with pretty severe physical injuries.

567
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:54,840
Maybe they need to put handles on the deck of the surfboard or moving things around for

568
00:31:54,840 --> 00:32:00,600
injuries, fixing the deck for someone that's kind of prosthetic, whatever it might be.

569
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:06,480
And luckily, Starbucks has a documentary crew.

570
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,960
They heard about us and came to a quick documentary on One More Wave.

571
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:14,880
And that's really what kind of exploded us into a lot more people realizing that that

572
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,520
was something they could go do.

573
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:18,520
People want to volunteer.

574
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:19,520
People want to donate.

575
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:25,280
And so that's what really kind of propelled One More Wave into another level of, hey,

576
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:26,600
we need to hire one of us now.

577
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:28,280
We're all doing this after work.

578
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,200
And so luckily I had already retired.

579
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,080
I was doing some government contracting.

580
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:36,920
And so I was in between contracts until luckily we hired me.

581
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:41,920
And so in 2017, I came on with One More Wave and I've been doing it ever since.

582
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:46,120
But it all started with us working with a Naval Hospital.

583
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:51,080
I had a guy on the show, English guy actually, Tom Hewitt, who lives in South Africa.

584
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:57,080
And he was a high level surfer himself, but he started seeing all these street kids, these

585
00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:58,080
homeless children.

586
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:01,600
I think it was around Durban, if I've got that right.

587
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:06,160
And so he started a nonprofit called Surfers Not Street Children.

588
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:08,840
And it was really interesting to hear them talking about it.

589
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:12,760
Firstly, they had a lot of these kids were terrified of the ocean because I think the

590
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:16,400
non-African people have been telling them there's monsters in the sea and don't go in,

591
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,840
which there are in South Africa.

592
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:22,840
But dissuaded to the point where I think maybe they were trying to keep the beaches for certain

593
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:23,840
groups of people.

594
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:28,400
So you've got them getting the confidence back, learning how to swim, now they're learning

595
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:29,400
to surf.

596
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,800
And he got some of it to the point where they're on the World Surf League, some of these kids.

597
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:33,800
Amazing.

598
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:37,800
But what was really interesting was he said they would do the session first.

599
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:43,440
So they've got the ocean, they've got the sunlight, they've got the physical exertion.

600
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:47,140
And then after the sessions, they'd sit on the sand and they'd basically give the kids

601
00:33:47,140 --> 00:33:50,640
unofficial counseling therapy.

602
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:55,200
What are you seeing as far as the mental health element of this surfing experience that these

603
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:57,660
veterans are going through?

604
00:33:57,660 --> 00:33:59,400
I think it does a couple of things.

605
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:03,080
So I tell people all the time, when you get in the ocean, the ocean does not care.

606
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:07,120
It does not care if you're having a bad day, if you had a bad day at home, if you're arguing

607
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,920
with your spouse, if it's cold, if it's raining.

608
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,120
So it forces you to focus.

609
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,880
And so that focus lets you either focus on yourself or focus on surfing or something

610
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:16,880
else.

611
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:18,480
And I think it kind of lets your brain heal.

612
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:22,320
And so what it does is it kind of gives you this new purpose of surfing.

613
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,280
And then what we found is what people love is the community piece.

614
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:29,420
And so just getting together and now we've got monthly meetups where we meet all over

615
00:34:29,420 --> 00:34:32,180
the US to meet to surf.

616
00:34:32,180 --> 00:34:37,480
And all we do is we put up a tent, we get a permit from the beach for four hours and

617
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:38,800
we just meet and surf.

618
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,200
And we used to try to add a whole bunch of things to it.

619
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:45,900
We'd say, hey, let's have meals and coffee and yoga, stretching.

620
00:34:45,900 --> 00:34:48,360
Maybe it's faith based in the beginning or after.

621
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:52,480
And what we found is people would come and skip portions of things that they didn't like.

622
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,480
And what we realized is that everyone just wanted to, one, meet with a bunch of other

623
00:34:55,480 --> 00:35:00,320
people that they felt like they had something in common with, have some coffee and talk

624
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,440
a little trash and then get in the water.

625
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,120
And so that's what we really cut out was to do that.

626
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:08,600
And now we find that people come and they just love to kind of be there, be around,

627
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:10,920
maybe not even get in the water, just might come hang out.

628
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:14,460
Now we do have therapists that will come, but it's not to do anything other than they like

629
00:35:14,460 --> 00:35:16,080
to surf too and they're also veterans.

630
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:21,040
And so it's amazing because what the VA does here in San Diego, which I'm not sure if they

631
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:25,760
do in other cities yet, is they'll actually go do their therapy sessions in the water.

632
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:29,920
If the person surfs, they'll go paddle out with them and go surf and have their therapy

633
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:30,920
session in the water.

634
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:32,940
So I think all of that is incredibly therapeutic.

635
00:35:32,940 --> 00:35:38,120
I think what it turns into almost is an unled kind of group therapy session.

636
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:39,120
Everyone's out in the water.

637
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:40,120
People might share something.

638
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:41,120
They may not.

639
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:44,480
They just have some peace for a couple hours away from everything else.

640
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,180
And so I think it's incredibly powerful.

641
00:35:47,180 --> 00:35:50,920
We've been lucky enough to have many, many of these groups.

642
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:58,120
And San Diego is our largest group and most of the time it's probably 60% veterans and

643
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:03,720
the rest are first responders, people with no connection to any type of service, just

644
00:36:03,720 --> 00:36:04,880
people that want to come surf.

645
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:06,920
And it just brings a really big group of people together.

646
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:07,920
It's been really incredible.

647
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:13,280
On both coasts, Oahu, we even have a group in Okinawa and people just come to surf, have

648
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:17,440
some unhealthy snacks, some donuts or something and some coffee and then go surf.

649
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:22,600
And that seems to be what resonates for our groups the most is to keep it incredibly simple,

650
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:23,680
just bring people together.

651
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:27,040
And it really has made a lot of great connections.

652
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:29,840
How are you able to help people with the identity piece?

653
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,480
I think service is definitely a huge part.

654
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,000
I would argue, I talk about the yin yang a lot.

655
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:38,960
The yang is the black, which is actually the soft and the yin is the white.

656
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:44,440
And our generation collectively were raised on the rambos and the terminators and these

657
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,120
false images of masculinity.

658
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:51,960
And then you become a firefighter or a seal and you identify with this is what I am.

659
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,440
And then by the time you come out the other side, rather than a yin yang, you're a white

660
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:56,440
circle now.

661
00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:00,520
You're all hard and no, but it was compassion and empathy really that sent you into service

662
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:01,880
in the first place.

663
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:06,240
So it seems like one of the real realities is when you come out, like I know guys that

664
00:37:06,240 --> 00:37:10,120
went into finance and they just imploded because it wasn't fulfilling at all.

665
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:13,880
You had these people doing arguably the opposite of service.

666
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:19,440
So what are you seeing with some of these veterans, especially doing the transition,

667
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:24,160
being able to refind who they are rather than what they did?

668
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:27,720
I think getting in these groups and seeing what other folks are successful with.

669
00:37:27,720 --> 00:37:31,760
And there's some guys that really like to, now that they've come into the group, kind

670
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:36,600
of mentor the newer folks that come in and out, especially if they're new to surfing.

671
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:40,000
Now they can kind of take this on and go, hey, I've been surfing for a couple of years.

672
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:42,480
I can teach you and kind of help these groups.

673
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:45,560
And so that has been kind of a neat transition where we'll have people that have been surfing

674
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:46,800
their whole lives.

675
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:50,840
We have many adult men and women that have never done anything in the ocean aside from

676
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:51,840
basically swimming.

677
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:53,040
And now they want to learn to surf.

678
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:58,500
And so it's fun to kind of see the progression of a brand new person, someone that's intermediate

679
00:37:58,500 --> 00:38:00,240
and then someone that's been at it for a couple more years.

680
00:38:00,240 --> 00:38:03,840
And so we have a couple of different groups of people where there'll be brand new people

681
00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:04,840
that are helping them transition.

682
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:09,480
And then there's lots and lots of people that have had some success post-service.

683
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,420
And so they can kind of give them advice on how to do things.

684
00:38:12,420 --> 00:38:16,440
And really what happens a lot is people kind of teach each other how to navigate the VA,

685
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:18,160
which can be challenging as well.

686
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:19,800
And so all those things really happen.

687
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:22,100
And so now people are not just taking care of themselves.

688
00:38:22,100 --> 00:38:25,480
Like I said at the beginning, they're getting to focus on others and kind of help others

689
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:27,920
kind of make it through this, which is pretty jarring.

690
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:32,240
Like you said, you're used to being at a fire station or a ladder or a SEAL team.

691
00:38:32,240 --> 00:38:35,320
And then you leave service and you're like, oh, what just happened?

692
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:36,320
No, I'm just kidding.

693
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:38,760
I always thought it'd be great to do nothing, but it's not.

694
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:40,040
None of us wants to do nothing.

695
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:41,040
No.

696
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:42,040
Well, it's funny.

697
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:45,320
One of my firefighter friends said that the goal of the whole mental health conversation

698
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:47,820
one day is to not have peer support teams.

699
00:38:47,820 --> 00:38:52,960
Just go back to talking around the dinner table, around the beach, whatever it is.

700
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:59,200
And if you look at how we were for the longest time, tribally humans, it was all inbuilt.

701
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:02,980
The warriors come home and they tell stories around the fire and there's all this ceremony

702
00:39:02,980 --> 00:39:05,400
and you're trying to pass on to your children.

703
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:06,680
So you're storytelling with that.

704
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:11,480
And with this kind of fractured community that we've arguably devolved from in some

705
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:15,680
point, the goal is ultimately to refine these communities.

706
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:19,920
And I would say that if we did it completely effectively, we wouldn't even need counselors

707
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:20,920
anymore.

708
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:26,120
Just another group of people that have experienced what you have before and you can just hang

709
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:28,320
out with them and kind of gather some wisdom.

710
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:29,320
Absolutely.

711
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:31,200
Now, what about from the physical side?

712
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:36,600
The adaptive community, I guess if we're going to find a silver lining to the cloud of war,

713
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:42,240
it's that the adaptive community has just shown us all what is actually possible from

714
00:39:42,240 --> 00:39:45,240
a mindset point of view, from a physical point of view.

715
00:39:45,240 --> 00:39:48,860
What are some of the things that have amazed you when it comes to the adaptive surface

716
00:39:48,860 --> 00:39:53,720
that you've seen and the technical adaptations they've made on these boards to allow them

717
00:39:53,720 --> 00:39:56,320
to serve?

718
00:39:56,320 --> 00:40:00,840
What was kind of the most shocking thing and it still is today now is I grew up competitive

719
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:05,520
surfing or not surfing, but swimming and then water polo and other sports.

720
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:07,160
And I'm not sure what sports you did.

721
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:08,320
I'm sure you did something as a kid.

722
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:11,840
But you know, when you go to the game or the match or whatever it might be, you spend a

723
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:16,080
lot of time where we sit mean mug and staring down the other guys trying to intimidate the

724
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:17,840
other team doing all these things.

725
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:20,280
That doesn't happen at all in adaptive surfing.

726
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:24,040
And I assume the rest of adaptive sport, we get in the water and everyone's trying to

727
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:25,380
help each other.

728
00:40:25,380 --> 00:40:29,400
There's different rules when you're in competition and people actually give up waves to another

729
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:31,680
person just because they want to help them out.

730
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:36,000
When we get to events, people will come from other countries and their board was destroyed

731
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:37,000
during travel.

732
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:41,720
It was funny, a couple of years ago, we were in La Jolla, which is a spot in Southern California

733
00:40:41,720 --> 00:40:46,360
in San Diego, and the three Brits that came to surf, all their boards were destroyed.

734
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:49,320
And so everyone else gave them their boards so that they could compete.

735
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:55,520
And so that has been amazing to me just to see the community and the family that globally,

736
00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:59,600
everyone just helped each other and is just excited when the other person has an amazing

737
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:04,160
session in the water as compared to what you might see in professional sports where people

738
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:05,960
are angry if they don't win.

739
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:06,960
Everyone's very supportive.

740
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:09,320
So that part has been amazing.

741
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:14,020
Whether it's seeing people that are amputees surfing, people that are blind, there's many

742
00:41:14,020 --> 00:41:18,040
blind surfers that have a team that's doing all kinds of amazing things, whistling to

743
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:21,400
them so they can turn, or people that...

744
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:24,480
One of our guys is a triple amputee, his name's Jose, he's an Army veteran.

745
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:26,080
He has one arm.

746
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:30,760
And we've pushed him into waves that I'm scared to surf in and I'm able-bodied.

747
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:35,040
So it's just amazing to see the things that everyone can do when you have the right mindset.

748
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:40,640
And especially when you get to represent your country, when we're talking about the world

749
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:44,280
version of these games, it's incredible to see these folks from every country come and

750
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:48,280
just literally put everything on the line to compete.

751
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:50,080
It's fantastic.

752
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:51,600
I'm an incurable optimistic.

753
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:55,960
I always tell people I'm an angry optimist, but incurable nonetheless.

754
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:59,760
Because I truly staunchly believe that most people are inherently good.

755
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:06,480
And I think if you reflect on the horrors of our history, it's usually the power hungry.

756
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:13,040
I'd argue the mentally ill few really that caused so many problems.

757
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:17,800
When you look back now, obviously you've got such an interesting lens of war, but now you're

758
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:20,160
in this healing domain.

759
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:22,680
What is your perspective on humanity?

760
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:25,760
You're exposed to athletes from all around the planet, you've worked with soldiers from

761
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:27,200
all around the planet.

762
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:31,680
What is your lens on that concept?

763
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:34,720
I think everyone's, like you said, is inherently good.

764
00:42:34,720 --> 00:42:37,320
It doesn't matter what your culture is.

765
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:41,040
Everyone wants to take care of their family, everyone wants to be safe, no one wants to

766
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:44,280
get hurt, and everyone is a patriot for whatever country they're from.

767
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:47,680
We're all very much the same.

768
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:49,920
It doesn't change no matter where you go.

769
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:52,060
When someone needs help, we help each other.

770
00:42:52,060 --> 00:42:57,000
As much as we might be divided on how you sit politically or globally, how people are

771
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:01,000
doing things, when it's person to person, it's very hard to find people that aren't

772
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:02,000
good everywhere.

773
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:08,960
I was talking to Tulsi Gabbard a while ago, and what's interesting about war is there

774
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:11,520
are obviously a lot of people that benefit financially.

775
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:16,240
To use a different metaphor, if you look at our healthcare or disease management that

776
00:43:16,240 --> 00:43:21,480
we've got in America, there's not going to be a push towards making healthy Americans

777
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:24,720
if certain groups are making a lot of money from sick Americans.

778
00:43:24,720 --> 00:43:26,880
It would be the same in war.

779
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:31,320
Obviously, there's a lot of people that make weapons and uniforms and MREs and put McDonald's

780
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:36,640
on basis that's in their best interest economically to keep us at war.

781
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:41,360
Obviously, from a humanitarian point of view, the goal is to avoid war unless absolutely

782
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:42,360
necessary.

783
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:45,800
I would say that World War II is one of those examples.

784
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:48,600
How do we maintain the checks and balances?

785
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:52,600
How do we work against this being dragged into war and sending our children off and

786
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:58,600
being brought home in flag-draped coppins unless it's absolutely necessary?

787
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:01,520
I wish I could remember the admiral's name.

788
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:06,400
Someone asked him that question, and he said, we should downsize the military so low that

789
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:09,360
in order to go to war, we need to have a draft.

790
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:13,280
Everyone has to be all in because otherwise, we're just going to keep abusing the small

791
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:17,840
groups of people that volunteer for service, no matter what it is, into doing this over

792
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:19,320
and over and over again.

793
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:24,480
If everyone has to pony up, then it's going to be a different story.

794
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:25,840
I think that's a wonderful answer.

795
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:30,480
If we kept it so small that if we're going to go to war, it has to be in everyone's best

796
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:31,480
interest to go.

797
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:34,680
Everyone's going to have to pony up, and we're going to have to have a draft, which is going

798
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:37,360
to cause a lot of angst and anger.

799
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:38,360
I don't care what country we're in.

800
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:40,520
No one wants to do that.

801
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:41,680
I think that was a wonderful answer.

802
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:42,680
I really liked it.

803
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:46,400
I thought that was really thoughtful that if it was small enough so that we couldn't

804
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:50,560
keep punishing these same, I shouldn't say punish, keep forcing these same people, small

805
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:53,560
groups, to do this for years.

806
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:56,160
I think that would be an amazing change.

807
00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:57,480
I agree 100%.

808
00:44:57,480 --> 00:45:00,000
I think it's even the same with the first responder professions.

809
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:07,520
Not that we need smaller, but there's a complete opposite impact as far as the priorities.

810
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:10,400
We're out of sight, out of mind, unless you're the emergency.

811
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:14,200
Now you're screaming for us and asking why it took so long, but when it comes to supporting

812
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:19,400
them and giving them the right manpower and maintaining hiring standards and equipment

813
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:22,760
and all that kind of thing, we're the bottom of the barrel usually in these county and

814
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:24,760
city conversations.

815
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:29,280
I think that doing a similar thing in the first responder professions would be interesting.

816
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:32,760
All right, well then we'll just go down to everyone has to volunteer to be a firefighter

817
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:35,800
and we'll see how long it takes for you to actually support us again.

818
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:36,800
Right.

819
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:40,000
Then you'll stop complaining about people getting retirement benefits too.

820
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:41,000
Exactly.

821
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:44,120
All right, we're going back to one more wave for a second.

822
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:48,480
I watched, I don't know if this is a documentary you're referring to, but there was a four-minute

823
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:54,080
show on the site and it shows amputee James getting his board made for him and going out

824
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:55,080
to surf.

825
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:57,600
So talk to me about the board making side.

826
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:01,400
Are those people within the companies or are you getting these incredible board shapers

827
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:04,840
that are working alongside you to try and be part of the difference?

828
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:06,240
Great question.

829
00:46:06,240 --> 00:46:08,400
So one more wave is tiny.

830
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:12,860
So we tried not to, I shouldn't say we tried not to, we don't have a surf shop.

831
00:46:12,860 --> 00:46:14,200
We don't make the boards ourselves.

832
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:17,980
We have a shop that we've used from the beginning and so they'll do that process.

833
00:46:17,980 --> 00:46:22,680
But what happens is someone will hop on our website and they'll apply for a grant.

834
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:25,080
And so what happens then is I just, it's me.

835
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:26,440
I talked to every single person.

836
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:28,660
We just kind of vet that they're actually a service member.

837
00:46:28,660 --> 00:46:33,140
We haven't had anyone try to fake it for a while, but we did a couple of years ago.

838
00:46:33,140 --> 00:46:35,360
And so I get to talk to everybody and then I interview every single person.

839
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:41,480
We talked for about 45 minutes and we decide, Hey, are you good fit?

840
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:44,760
A lot of times people will apply and have never surfed and they were, they were hoping

841
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:46,200
that we would provide that.

842
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:49,240
One more wave doesn't teach surfing really, what we do is provide the gear.

843
00:46:49,240 --> 00:46:53,660
And so if someone applies and they haven't learned to surf yet, there's just in Southern

844
00:46:53,660 --> 00:46:58,160
California as an example, from where I live in San Diego to let's say the North end of

845
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:02,800
Los Angeles, which is Malibu, there's eight nonprofits that teach first responders and

846
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:04,600
veterans to surf for free.

847
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:05,800
So I'll connect them with those groups.

848
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:08,960
They'd learn to surf and then we come back and get gear.

849
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:14,120
So for making custom equipment for somebody, we spend a lot of time talking and then we

850
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:18,000
make the gear at a particular shop here in San Diego.

851
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:22,800
And oftentimes when you're talking about James, James is a, I think below the knee amputee.

852
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:26,560
Sometimes it takes us three or four or five boards to get it right.

853
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:31,040
And that's because when you're missing parts, the boards act a little bit different.

854
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:34,680
Imagine if the weight of your body, if you have legs and if you don't have legs, that

855
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:35,840
your legs weigh a lot.

856
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:37,640
And so that changes the boards.

857
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:42,680
So what happens is we build the boards, but what we do a lot of, and we haven't done it

858
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:47,280
as much lately just because there hasn't been a lot of ask for it, but we do art therapy.

859
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:52,240
And so I'm not a therapist and I'm definitely not an artist, but we have friends that will

860
00:47:52,240 --> 00:47:54,000
do artwork for the boards for people.

861
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:56,040
So it could be Alex, that's the founder of WilmerWave.

862
00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:59,920
He doesn't do it as much anymore, but we have a couple other artists that will actually

863
00:47:59,920 --> 00:48:03,960
meet virtually with the veteran and they'll come up with whatever it is that that person

864
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:04,960
wants.

865
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:11,080
And so it could be something powerful, something they, some friends they lost maybe overseas

866
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:15,240
or maybe some family members they've lost, or maybe it's their favorite football team

867
00:48:15,240 --> 00:48:16,800
or their unit, whatever it might be.

868
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:21,960
We've put all kinds of crazy things into boards, whether it's expended rounds from weapons

869
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:26,760
or parts of a vehicle that were exploded when the person was injured overseas.

870
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:27,760
It doesn't matter.

871
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:29,000
We'll go through that process.

872
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:32,480
They are a hundred percent involved in what goes into the artwork.

873
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:38,020
And then we work with the actual shapers, the tradesmen that make the boards to kind

874
00:48:38,020 --> 00:48:39,020
of get it right.

875
00:48:39,020 --> 00:48:43,560
What we try to do often, especially with adaptive riders is to get in the water with them first

876
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:46,040
to kind of see what's going to work and what's not going to work.

877
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:49,440
And so that's been one of the more helpful things is to actually get the person in the

878
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:52,400
water and kind of play around and see what's going to work.

879
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:57,200
And it gives us a chance to see kind of the person's ability to swim in the ocean because

880
00:48:57,200 --> 00:48:59,360
that's going to be a big deal too.

881
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:02,420
So once that process happens, we make the board, we present it.

882
00:49:02,420 --> 00:49:05,320
And what we try to do is just keep them surfing as long as they would like to.

883
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:10,280
So we pay for all the repairs, we pay for all the parts they might need.

884
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:12,240
Sometimes we need to upgrade a board depending on a person.

885
00:49:12,240 --> 00:49:13,480
So it really just depends on what they need.

886
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:17,280
But the whole process begins with them getting online, applying, they talk to me and either

887
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:20,920
we'll connect them with an artist or we'll go right to connecting them with the shapers

888
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:23,360
and they'll come up with the proper board for them.

889
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:24,360
Hopefully.

890
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:28,080
Sometimes it doesn't work and we have to start over, but that's kind of the fun part.

891
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:32,800
And what are some of the success stories that really kind of stuck out to you?

892
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:41,320
I think luckily, probably 12%, 15% at the most of the boards we make are adaptive.

893
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:42,320
The rest are not.

894
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:45,000
So everyone else is getting geared.

895
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:49,680
Mental health could be depression, anxiety, PTSD, traumatic brain injury, MST, which is

896
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:53,280
military sexual trauma, drug abuse.

897
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:54,280
It could be all kinds of things.

898
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:58,120
And so those are probably who we give more boards to.

899
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:04,160
So anybody that has a disability rating from the VA can apply.

900
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:09,120
So you don't have to be a combat wounded veteran to be available to our services.

901
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:14,480
So I tell people all the time, it doesn't matter to me personally, if you did 50 trips,

902
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:19,720
50 deployments to Mogadishu or you were a fireman in the Air Force and you lived in

903
00:50:19,720 --> 00:50:22,880
Kirkland, Washington, it doesn't really matter.

904
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:23,880
There's no scoreboard.

905
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:25,600
So I don't care.

906
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:27,640
So it's same thing if you got kicked out.

907
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:31,040
Maybe someone had a rough run on the way out of the service and they actually got kicked

908
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:32,040
out.

909
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:34,080
And so often what happens is then you won't be at any...

910
00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:38,720
If you get kicked out of the service, a lot of the services that can come from the Veterans

911
00:50:38,720 --> 00:50:42,880
Association, Veterans Administration, get cut away.

912
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:47,400
And so we will give everyone service, whatever the way they left the service, wherever they

913
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:50,960
served, as long as they're a veteran and they have a disability rating, we're happy to help.

914
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:56,300
I spend a lot of time going to some of the VA rehab centers and chatting with those cats

915
00:50:56,300 --> 00:50:59,760
there because there's a lot of men and women that kind of have a tough time on the way

916
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:01,620
out of the service.

917
00:51:01,620 --> 00:51:06,080
So all those folks are availed of our services too.

918
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:09,520
I'd never asked anyone in the military about this specifically, but I've talked about it

919
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:11,640
in the first responder professions.

920
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:17,200
When we get that angry guy or the person who becomes a problem in the uniform, I always

921
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:19,360
ask them, well, what were they like when you hired them?

922
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:20,760
What were they like five years in?

923
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:21,760
Oh, they were phenomenal.

924
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:24,640
They were a great leader, but yeah, well, there we go.

925
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:31,160
So was the job a large contributor to this downward spiral and is cutting them loose,

926
00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:34,760
getting rid of them the answer, or could you send them down a healing path and get them

927
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:37,600
back to the person that they're supposed to be in the first place?

928
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:42,060
And to think about that on the military point of view, to have a dishonorable discharge

929
00:51:42,060 --> 00:51:46,860
and then all your benefits gone, I wonder how many people we lost because maybe they

930
00:51:46,860 --> 00:51:50,400
needed the help more then than ever.

931
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:53,680
In my opinion, they need help more than everyone else.

932
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:55,800
This scenario I saw happen several times.

933
00:51:55,800 --> 00:52:00,400
So maybe a young Marine on deployment gets blown up several times, gets some traumatic

934
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:06,560
brain injury, it goes undiagnosed, they come back to the US and then they get into trouble.

935
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:08,000
They're late a couple of times.

936
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:11,800
They come in smelling like booze, they get a DUI and they go, you're a piece of crap.

937
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:15,620
I don't care that you served, that you did a good time and they kick them out.

938
00:52:15,620 --> 00:52:19,120
And there's so many people that it happened to that it's really shocking.

939
00:52:19,120 --> 00:52:23,000
And now those guys, not only do they get kicked out of the thing that they were, this family

940
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:27,380
they're part of, now they can get no support and now they almost are kind of shunned.

941
00:52:27,380 --> 00:52:29,240
And so those are the folks that really need a hand.

942
00:52:29,240 --> 00:52:31,160
They can just go, hey, just come on over.

943
00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:35,320
Yeah, you know, everyone makes mistakes, you know, come on over, let's go surfing.

944
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:36,320
I got it.

945
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:37,320
Yeah, let's do it.

946
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:40,080
And so I think a lot of people really could use that hand.

947
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:44,960
I'm sure that's the same in first responder land that, you know, the exact same thing

948
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:47,040
can happen and then you just kind of cut off.

949
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:49,160
Yeah, yeah, because it's not even a loss of tribe.

950
00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:52,200
It's having your tribe turn their back on you, which as we know, you know, if you go

951
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:54,360
back a few thousand years meant death.

952
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:59,280
So we're wired to be part of that tribe and it's detrimental if we're not.

953
00:52:59,280 --> 00:53:00,280
Right.

954
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:03,880
No, so just seeing that happen over and over again is tragic.

955
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:06,600
So I'm always happy to be able to do that.

956
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:12,240
And what's interesting for us when we started doing that, the nonprofit world, most of the,

957
00:53:12,240 --> 00:53:18,040
a lot of the groups will only support people that are post 9 11 and forward, not for any

958
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:21,880
reason other than it's, it's easier and it's a big group, but we've been open to

959
00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:22,880
everybody the whole time.

960
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:25,160
And so a couple of years ago we made a board.

961
00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:28,280
I'm not sure which video we saw for a guy that was in Vietnam.

962
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:32,120
And then, you know, we're, then we're giving a board way to somebody that was in Syria.

963
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:36,440
So it's fun to be able to connect the folks that probably feel like they got treated the

964
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:40,000
worst, you know, whether it's Vietnam and on coming back.

965
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:43,920
What we do a lot is try to help people get their VA claims working.

966
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:46,720
A lady that comes in volunteers with us all the time.

967
00:53:46,720 --> 00:53:47,720
She's a surfer.

968
00:53:47,720 --> 00:53:51,660
Her father was a Vietnam veteran and he had never done a VA claim ever.

969
00:53:51,660 --> 00:53:53,280
And then she brought them, she met some of our guys.

970
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:58,520
We bring VA people to our events just to meet and chat with people and let them know what's

971
00:53:58,520 --> 00:53:59,640
available.

972
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:04,680
And they did a claim for him and got him back paid and done everything from like 1977 to,

973
00:54:04,680 --> 00:54:07,760
you know, this year, which is pretty incredible.

974
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:11,840
Someone said to me a while ago now, as far as a number of veterans that we're losing,

975
00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:14,840
that a large portion was actually our Vietnam vets.

976
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:18,440
And if you look at the homecoming story of a lot of them, it's not ticker tape parades

977
00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:19,440
by any means.

978
00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:23,000
You've got, again, that tribe turning their back on you, you know, organizational betrayal

979
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:24,280
in a way.

980
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:28,320
But then a lot of them, you know, went into whatever workforce was and now they're at

981
00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:30,520
retirement age, civilian retirement age.

982
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:34,920
So now they're once again finding themselves, you know, out of this tribe, out of this purpose

983
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:37,400
and maybe alone in the house.

984
00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:39,960
And so, yeah, we should be taking care of the previous generations.

985
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:43,480
I would argue Korea, even though obviously they're pretty old now, you know, the Forgotten

986
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:48,560
War, that's another group that really probably got almost no acknowledgement for their service.

987
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:52,960
Zero for many, especially, you know, black and brown people.

988
00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:55,720
You know, it was horrible back in those days.

989
00:54:55,720 --> 00:54:59,960
So it's really heartening to see folks come forward and be able to just point them in

990
00:54:59,960 --> 00:55:01,560
the right direction and get some help.

991
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:02,920
So that's been cool.

992
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:04,920
And what about the VA themselves?

993
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:05,920
It's an interesting lens.

994
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:09,960
Obviously, I'm, you know, never served in the military myself, but a lot of...

995
00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:10,960
Sure.

996
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:22,880
But, you know, you've talked about all these different progressive elements.

997
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:27,240
My wife actually is about to become an optometrist, doctor of optometry, and she's working in

998
00:55:27,240 --> 00:55:30,400
the VA as her last kind of residency year.

999
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:34,920
And I'm hearing phenomenal things about the care these veterans are getting in the one

1000
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:36,720
close to me in the villages.

1001
00:55:36,720 --> 00:55:39,800
So what is the kind of evolution of that?

1002
00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:45,600
Are we seeing, you know, changes being made so it's becoming more holistic and spreading

1003
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:52,720
the toolbox wider so these veterans can find their own unique healing kind of cocktail?

1004
00:55:52,720 --> 00:55:53,720
I think so.

1005
00:55:53,720 --> 00:55:56,240
But I think it's still pretty localized.

1006
00:55:56,240 --> 00:56:00,280
I think in the bigger areas, like for me in San Diego, San Diego has the largest veteran

1007
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:01,640
community in the US.

1008
00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:05,920
I think then it goes to Norfolk and then maybe Oahu.

1009
00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:08,920
So for here, it's great.

1010
00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:10,520
There's really a lot of things that you can do.

1011
00:56:10,520 --> 00:56:14,440
I think what guys get really angry about is the way we're brought up in the service is

1012
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:17,960
if you have an injury, you get hurt or sickness, you don't report it.

1013
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:19,120
And so this drags on.

1014
00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:22,440
And then what happens is now you're out of the service and you'd like to get care for

1015
00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:26,240
something that is not in your record because you were kind of...

1016
00:56:26,240 --> 00:56:27,240
That's just how it is.

1017
00:56:27,240 --> 00:56:28,240
You don't do it.

1018
00:56:28,240 --> 00:56:29,240
And so the frustration can be really high.

1019
00:56:29,240 --> 00:56:32,720
You go, no, I got hurt doing this thing in the service while you didn't ever report it.

1020
00:56:32,720 --> 00:56:34,400
And so now there's this fight that happens.

1021
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:37,000
I think they're getting better about that.

1022
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:40,680
I know in San Diego, it's much better than in other places.

1023
00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:45,720
I think smaller places probably have smaller issues or small town type things.

1024
00:56:45,720 --> 00:56:49,320
But for here, I've definitely noticed it's pretty big.

1025
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:53,320
Every time I call and ask them to come, they have outreach folks that will come to every

1026
00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:55,720
event that I ask them to.

1027
00:56:55,720 --> 00:56:58,040
And most of the people are all veterans themselves.

1028
00:56:58,040 --> 00:56:59,560
And so they kind of understand it.

1029
00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:01,560
So I think it is getting better.

1030
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:05,600
There's definitely a long way to go, but it's definitely better.

1031
00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:10,480
When I first retired, they wanted to give me, I think, 14 different types of medications,

1032
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:15,000
whether it's sleep or anxiety or whatever it is, there were so many.

1033
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:18,840
But now they're trying to not do that, I think, as much as offer all kinds of different, what

1034
00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:20,960
they call rec therapy, recreational therapy.

1035
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:23,920
And the VA actually runs a surf clinic.

1036
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:25,320
They run all kinds of stuff.

1037
00:57:25,320 --> 00:57:27,400
So I think as long as you're willing to put in...

1038
00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:29,120
You do have to put a little bit of work.

1039
00:57:29,120 --> 00:57:30,120
You have to find it.

1040
00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:33,800
It's not as easy to kind of navigate as it should be, but it is getting much better,

1041
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:35,160
I think.

1042
00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:39,600
So aside from your own personal journey with surfing, were there any other tools that have

1043
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:44,520
helped you kind of go from that low place and grow yourself?

1044
00:57:44,520 --> 00:57:48,160
I think for me, like I mentioned, the volunteering piece was big for me.

1045
00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:52,680
The community piece of other veterans after service was helpful for me.

1046
00:57:52,680 --> 00:57:54,560
Helping other people is definitely the big thing for me.

1047
00:57:54,560 --> 00:58:00,200
And just kind of realizing for me that, and I find this to be hard for adults, maybe especially

1048
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:01,200
males.

1049
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:05,440
I think once you're to do things just for fun or just for yourself instead of doing

1050
00:58:05,440 --> 00:58:11,040
stuff for work or for what you think is you need to do around the house or for your family.

1051
00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:16,200
Just do something that's just fun just for you that really gives nothing to anybody but

1052
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:17,200
yourself.

1053
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:18,200
I think that was really hard for me.

1054
00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:21,540
I think it's really hard for lots of adults, especially males, especially people that come

1055
00:58:21,540 --> 00:58:23,440
from first responders or military.

1056
00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:24,680
You're just not used to doing that.

1057
00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:26,560
You're used to trying to take care of other people.

1058
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:31,680
And so doing things just for me really, really helped me and kind of helped me get some peace

1059
00:58:31,680 --> 00:58:32,680
for sure.

1060
00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:33,680
Beautiful.

1061
00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:36,720
Well, I want to throw some quick closing questions at you before I let you go.

1062
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:37,720
That's okay.

1063
00:58:37,720 --> 00:58:38,720
Yeah.

1064
00:58:38,720 --> 00:58:39,720
All right.

1065
00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:43,360
The first one I'd love to ask, is there a book or are there books that you love to recommend

1066
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:48,520
it can be related to our discussion today or completely unrelated?

1067
00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:50,120
The last one I read, I'm horrible.

1068
00:58:50,120 --> 00:58:51,120
I don't read very much.

1069
00:58:51,120 --> 00:58:55,360
I listen to lots of podcasts, but I read Blue Mind, which is pretty good.

1070
00:58:55,360 --> 00:59:01,260
And that was just kind of how the ocean kind of helps heal people through just contact.

1071
00:59:01,260 --> 00:59:02,260
And so that was pretty cool.

1072
00:59:02,260 --> 00:59:03,540
I really like that book.

1073
00:59:03,540 --> 00:59:05,480
And what about films or documentaries?

1074
00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:07,720
We're talking about surfing stuff.

1075
00:59:07,720 --> 00:59:09,200
I just watched a cool documentary.

1076
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:14,360
Oh, I loved, and some people hate it, the one about the octopus.

1077
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:16,360
It's called My Teacher, the Octopus.

1078
00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:17,360
I really enjoyed that.

1079
00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:20,960
It's a documentary about this guy that follows an octopus around.

1080
00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:25,000
But something that was really fun was watching the hundred waves, like the biggest waves

1081
00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:27,560
they're surfing in Portugal right now.

1082
00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:30,640
This French woman has surfed the biggest wave ever.

1083
00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:31,640
It's incredible.

1084
00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:32,640
Her story is fantastic.

1085
00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:35,960
But it's on HBO right now, or Max, whatever it's called.

1086
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:39,940
It documents the history of the big wave riding in Portugal at Nazaré, which has the biggest

1087
00:59:39,940 --> 00:59:41,640
waves in the world.

1088
00:59:41,640 --> 00:59:44,960
Pretty incredible seeing those humans ride down those giant waves.

1089
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:46,040
I've got to go there one day.

1090
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:47,600
My mom and my brother live in Portugal.

1091
00:59:47,600 --> 00:59:50,240
They're from England, but they moved to Portugal.

1092
00:59:50,240 --> 00:59:51,880
And it's not too far from where they live.

1093
00:59:51,880 --> 00:59:57,720
So just seeing the people watching it, and they're just like ants in this freaking wave.

1094
00:59:57,720 --> 00:59:58,720
It's insane.

1095
00:59:58,720 --> 00:59:59,720
Unbelievable.

1096
00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:04,760
Speaking of that, I had Bethany Hamilton on a while ago now.

1097
01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:09,200
And watching her, and we're talking about amputees with one arm, getting through these

1098
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:16,720
waves in the first place, but riding against not even the adaptive bracket, but just the

1099
01:00:16,720 --> 01:00:19,400
regular bracket with a single arm.

1100
01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:26,920
You talk about defying all, or just reprogramming or recalibrating what is possible.

1101
01:00:26,920 --> 01:00:27,920
She is phenomenal.

1102
01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:32,440
And obviously, she's an advocate for marine wildlife after losing an arm to a shark.

1103
01:00:32,440 --> 01:00:37,200
So same as Paul de Gelder, another good example.

1104
01:00:37,200 --> 01:00:38,200
She's incredible.

1105
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:42,280
She has a nonprofit of her own called, what is it called?

1106
01:00:42,280 --> 01:00:43,280
Perfectly Flawed.

1107
01:00:43,280 --> 01:00:49,280
And so she takes girls that have similar injuries or they were born, missing parts, teaches

1108
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:52,280
them to surf here in San Diego every year.

1109
01:00:52,280 --> 01:00:53,920
We volunteer and go do it.

1110
01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:54,920
Incredible.

1111
01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:57,960
And then you see Bethany surf and you're like, holy crap, she rips.

1112
01:00:57,960 --> 01:00:59,440
She's so good at surfing.

1113
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:03,160
But what I found was kind of shocking to me.

1114
01:01:03,160 --> 01:01:06,640
She brings all these girls, and I think they do boys now, it's called forged or something.

1115
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:11,580
But women and young girls that have those type of injuries or are born with those ailments

1116
01:01:11,580 --> 01:01:15,180
have a much higher rate of being attacked or assaulted.

1117
01:01:15,180 --> 01:01:19,720
So they had as part of their week long program, they'd stay at the beach, they'd surf, they

1118
01:01:19,720 --> 01:01:25,360
have these IDF Krav Maga chicks come and teach them to fight from like their chair or the

1119
01:01:25,360 --> 01:01:26,760
crutch or whatever it was.

1120
01:01:26,760 --> 01:01:31,480
It was incredible to see these girls like learning how to roll and do Krav Maga and

1121
01:01:31,480 --> 01:01:34,800
how to protect themselves because they have such a higher rate of being attacked.

1122
01:01:34,800 --> 01:01:36,880
So it's really neat program.

1123
01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:37,880
Bethany is awesome.

1124
01:01:37,880 --> 01:01:38,880
So I'm stoked.

1125
01:01:38,880 --> 01:01:40,920
I've been able to volunteer a couple of years.

1126
01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:41,920
That's amazing.

1127
01:01:41,920 --> 01:01:43,440
Yeah, I want to get it back on the show at some point.

1128
01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:47,320
All right, well then speaking of amazing people, is there a person that you'd recommend to

1129
01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:52,440
come on this podcast as a guest to speak to the first responders, military and associated

1130
01:01:52,440 --> 01:01:55,120
professions of the world?

1131
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:57,440
I do you should get Jose Jose is a friend of mine.

1132
01:01:57,440 --> 01:01:59,380
He's a Jose Martinez.

1133
01:01:59,380 --> 01:02:07,080
He's an army veteran, triple amputee, world championship, world champion, adaptive surfer.

1134
01:02:07,080 --> 01:02:09,400
He'll make you want to get outside and do something.

1135
01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:12,120
Just talking to him is the most stoked person I've ever met still.

1136
01:02:12,120 --> 01:02:14,800
Brilliant, if you're able to help, we'll make that happen.

1137
01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:15,800
Definitely.

1138
01:02:15,800 --> 01:02:16,800
For sure.

1139
01:02:16,800 --> 01:02:20,480
All right, well then the last question before we find out where people can find one more

1140
01:02:20,480 --> 01:02:25,520
wave and yourself personally, what do you do to decompress?

1141
01:02:25,520 --> 01:02:30,040
I go surfing, go get in the ocean by myself.

1142
01:02:30,040 --> 01:02:34,560
What about just as a quick side note, when I lived in Huntington for a while, they have

1143
01:02:34,560 --> 01:02:38,560
what they call that surf, surf city USA, there was a big controversy as who actually was

1144
01:02:38,560 --> 01:02:44,640
surf city USA, but I remember seeing some of the waves were just so, so crowded.

1145
01:02:44,640 --> 01:02:49,240
How do you find sections of the ocean so it is therapeutic and not a big fistfight in

1146
01:02:49,240 --> 01:02:51,000
the middle of the ocean?

1147
01:02:51,000 --> 01:02:54,440
I try to go when the sun's barely coming up because those guys are usually asleep still.

1148
01:02:54,440 --> 01:02:59,600
So I try to go very early or we're lucky, we're close to Baja.

1149
01:02:59,600 --> 01:03:00,720
We can go down into Mexico.

1150
01:03:00,720 --> 01:03:03,120
You can always find spots where there's nobody else.

1151
01:03:03,120 --> 01:03:04,120
Beautiful.

1152
01:03:04,120 --> 01:03:07,560
All right, well then where can people find one more wave online?

1153
01:03:07,560 --> 01:03:08,560
Sure.

1154
01:03:08,560 --> 01:03:14,320
So we have Instagram, it's just one M wave or the website's onemorewave.com.

1155
01:03:14,320 --> 01:03:15,320
Pretty easy.

1156
01:03:15,320 --> 01:03:17,160
Just you'll find this all over the place.

1157
01:03:17,160 --> 01:03:22,240
And then so people can apply to actually protect themselves, but also they can donate on there?

1158
01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:25,680
They can donate, they can volunteer, they can join a chapter.

1159
01:03:25,680 --> 01:03:27,720
Chapter is just, you're not joining a gang.

1160
01:03:27,720 --> 01:03:29,880
We're not going to give you a patch and have to do anything.

1161
01:03:29,880 --> 01:03:30,880
You just come to these groups.

1162
01:03:30,880 --> 01:03:34,000
It just means you can come surf and join everybody in the ocean.

1163
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:35,000
Everyone's welcome.

1164
01:03:35,000 --> 01:03:36,000
We're all inclusive.

1165
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:39,120
Anybody can come, we're family friendly.

1166
01:03:39,120 --> 01:03:42,080
So join a chapter, you can volunteer.

1167
01:03:42,080 --> 01:03:45,800
You can, if you volunteer, we can help you volunteer at one of the competitions.

1168
01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:47,000
Those are kind of the most rewarding.

1169
01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:50,760
Go volunteer at some of these adaptive competitions that are here on the West Coast.

1170
01:03:50,760 --> 01:03:52,640
There's also some all over the place.

1171
01:03:52,640 --> 01:03:54,320
So we can connect you with all those folks.

1172
01:03:54,320 --> 01:03:55,640
You can donate.

1173
01:03:55,640 --> 01:03:58,620
You can follow us on Instagram, whatever your jam is.

1174
01:03:58,620 --> 01:03:59,680
Just come hang out.

1175
01:03:59,680 --> 01:04:02,680
What I would say, what I always like to say is if you have somebody that's struggling,

1176
01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:07,080
you have a friend, it can be a first responder, it can be a veteran, just reach out.

1177
01:04:07,080 --> 01:04:08,280
If they don't like surfing, that's okay.

1178
01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:09,720
I'll connect them with something that they like.

1179
01:04:09,720 --> 01:04:11,440
I guarantee there's something that they're into.

1180
01:04:11,440 --> 01:04:19,000
It could be pottery, it could be art, it could be archery, skydiving, hunting, child predators.

1181
01:04:19,000 --> 01:04:21,560
There's all kinds of cool groups that you can be a part of and volunteer with that can

1182
01:04:21,560 --> 01:04:23,880
give you some new purpose.

1183
01:04:23,880 --> 01:04:24,880
Beautiful.

1184
01:04:24,880 --> 01:04:26,120
And then what about yourself personally?

1185
01:04:26,120 --> 01:04:29,280
Where are the best places to reach out if someone wanted to?

1186
01:04:29,280 --> 01:04:30,280
Sure.

1187
01:04:30,280 --> 01:04:32,040
You can grab me on Instagram.

1188
01:04:32,040 --> 01:04:33,040
That's robgarnett.

1189
01:04:33,040 --> 01:04:34,040
Fantastic.

1190
01:04:34,040 --> 01:04:36,440
Well, Rob, I want to say thank you so much.

1191
01:04:36,440 --> 01:04:37,880
It's been such an amazing conversation.

1192
01:04:37,880 --> 01:04:42,840
I mean, obviously your military career in itself, but I'm always enamored by anyone

1193
01:04:42,840 --> 01:04:47,560
who has served as a profession, but then looks around and realizes that more needs to be

1194
01:04:47,560 --> 01:04:48,560
done.

1195
01:04:48,560 --> 01:04:50,080
And so they carry on even though they've transitioned out.

1196
01:04:50,080 --> 01:04:54,120
And I think that what you're doing at One More Wave, it kind of aligns with SurfWell

1197
01:04:54,120 --> 01:04:57,880
in the UK, which is a bunch of police officers and what Tom Hewitt's doing, even though he

1198
01:04:57,880 --> 01:05:00,120
wasn't military specifically.

1199
01:05:00,120 --> 01:05:02,440
There are answers to so many of the problems.

1200
01:05:02,440 --> 01:05:06,320
And some people like to hike, some people like to surf, some people want to skydive

1201
01:05:06,320 --> 01:05:09,360
or just be around animals, whatever it is.

1202
01:05:09,360 --> 01:05:13,480
But to know that these programs are there and people can find the right fit for them,

1203
01:05:13,480 --> 01:05:15,660
I think is so important.

1204
01:05:15,660 --> 01:05:18,720
So I want to thank you so much for being so generous with your time and coming on the

1205
01:05:18,720 --> 01:05:21,360
Behind the Shield podcast today.

1206
01:05:21,360 --> 01:05:22,360
Thank you.

1207
01:05:22,360 --> 01:05:33,880
That's it for today.