1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,440
This episode is sponsored by a company I've literally been using for over 15 years now, and that is 511.

2
00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:13,040
Now my introduction to their products began when I started wearing 511 uniforms years ago for Anaheim Fire Department.

3
00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:18,600
And since then I have acquired a host of their backpacks and luggage, which have literally been around the world with me.

4
00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:22,800
The backpack where I keep all my recording equipment is a 511 backpack.

5
00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:27,000
And then most of my civilian gear, the clothes that I wear are also 511.

6
00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:31,520
Now more recently they've actually branched out into the brick and mortar stores.

7
00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:36,360
So for example Gainesville where I do jiu-jitsu has a beautiful 511 store.

8
00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:39,640
So if you are a fire department, a law enforcement agency,

9
00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:45,200
you now have access to an entire inventory of clothing and equipment in these 511 stores.

10
00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:48,540
Now I've talked about the range of shoes they have and how important

11
00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:53,200
minimizing weight in our footwear is when it comes to our back health, knee health, etc.

12
00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:59,080
I've talked about their unique uniforms that are fitted for either male or female first responders.

13
00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:02,960
And then I want to highlight one new area, their CloudStrike packs.

14
00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:08,360
For those of you who enjoy hiking, this would even be an application I believe for the wildland community.

15
00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:16,760
They've created an ultra light pack now with a hydration system built in for rucking, running or other long-distance events.

16
00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:21,200
Now as always 511 is offering you, the audience of the Behind the Shield podcast,

17
00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:24,600
15% off every purchase that you make.

18
00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:33,000
So if you use the code SHIELD15, that's S-H-I-E-L-D-1-5 at 511tactical.com,

19
00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:36,280
you will get that 15% off every single time.

20
00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:44,360
So if you want to hear more about 511 and their origin story, go to episode 338 of Behind the Shield podcast

21
00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:47,520
with their CEO Francisco Morales.

22
00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:50,520
Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast as always. My name is James Gearing.

23
00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:53,520
And this week it is my absolute honor to welcome on the show,

24
00:01:53,760 --> 00:02:00,760
Army veteran and holder of one of the longest sniper shots in history, Craig Harrison.

25
00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:06,040
So in this conversation, we discuss a host of topics from growing up around horses,

26
00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:13,280
his journey into the military, serving in the Balkans, Iraq, Afghanistan,

27
00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:19,280
the impact on his family's safety after the army released his name to the media,

28
00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:26,520
his own very powerful mental health story, his book, The Longest Kill, and so much more.

29
00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:31,520
Now before we get to this incredible conversation, as I say every week, please just take a moment.

30
00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:38,760
Go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback and leave a rating.

31
00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:45,760
Every single five star rating truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making it easier for others to find.

32
00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:51,000
And this is a free library of over 1000 episodes now.

33
00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:57,240
So all I ask in return is that you help share these incredible men and women stories

34
00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:02,240
so I can get them to every single person on planet Earth who needs to hear them.

35
00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:09,240
So with that being said, I introduce to you Craig Harrison. Enjoy.

36
00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:16,240
Well, Craig, I want to start by saying thank you so much for taking the time and coming on the Behind the Shield podcast today.

37
00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:21,240
That's no worries, James. It's a pleasure to be a guest.

38
00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:24,240
Thank you.

39
00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:26,240
Thank you.

40
00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:28,240
Thank you.

41
00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:30,240
Thank you.

42
00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:32,240
Thank you.

43
00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:34,240
Thank you.

44
00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:36,240
Thank you.

45
00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:39,240
It's a pleasure to be a guest.

46
00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:43,240
So where on planet Earth are we finding you your evening, my afternoon?

47
00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:48,240
So I'm based in Southampton, north of England.

48
00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:53,240
And yeah, just we had a horrendous storm.

49
00:03:53,240 --> 00:04:00,240
So we're just getting over that at the moment. Everything was being flooded and sort of, I think, not like America.

50
00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:06,240
I think when we get a storm or snow, I think our country just shuts down.

51
00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:08,240
We can't handle it.

52
00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:13,240
Yeah, my sister was flying back from Portugal yesterday back to England and I think their flight was delayed because of all that.

53
00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:18,240
So I won't show you the skies outside my window in Florida because it probably won't help.

54
00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:20,240
Yeah, probably not.

55
00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:24,240
All right. Well, then the very first question, I'd love to start at the very beginning of your timeline.

56
00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:29,240
So tell me where you were born and tell me a little bit about your family dynamic, what your parents did.

57
00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:33,240
Excuse me. How many siblings?

58
00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:39,240
So I was born in Chatham, Gloucestershire, which is near the Cotswolds in England.

59
00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:47,240
And yeah, I've got one brother and my upbringing, my upbringing was good.

60
00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:51,240
You know, my mum was a Victorian.

61
00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:58,240
She she sort of ruled us with an iron fist sort of thing, you know.

62
00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:02,240
But it made us better people, made us better adults at the end of the day.

63
00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:05,240
And yeah, my father left when I was really, really young.

64
00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:08,240
So it was a single parent family.

65
00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:11,240
My grandfather was my father figure.

66
00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:16,240
And he I sort of looked up to him hell of a lot.

67
00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:18,240
And he sort of guided me.

68
00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:22,240
I was closer to him than my brother was to him sort of thing.

69
00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:24,240
You know, we had more in common.

70
00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:32,240
I think now looking at it, my brother sort of got my my father's sort of like sort of aspects.

71
00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:35,240
And I followed my grandfather's aspects as well.

72
00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:43,240
So and yeah, very, very fortunate to have horses when I was younger as well.

73
00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:45,240
And that's where my love of animals come.

74
00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:50,240
You know, my mum was very into dogs and animals and all sorts.

75
00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:56,240
And yeah, my brother really wasn't that way inclined animal wise.

76
00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:59,240
He was more fashion sort of.

77
00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:02,240
And I was sort of we're sort of split.

78
00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:08,240
I went the animal side and he he went the fashion side and worried about going out and what it looked like really.

79
00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:11,240
But he joined the army.

80
00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:13,240
He's a year older than me.

81
00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:18,240
And funny enough, he joined the King's Troop Rall Horse Artillery,

82
00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:23,240
which was bizarre because he had no interest in horses when we were younger.

83
00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:27,240
So yeah, yeah.

84
00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:33,240
And I wish I knew that when he was younger, he could have given me a hand, you know, but here's what it is.

85
00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:40,240
And I sort of like joined the Armed Forces, sort of like guided to join the Armed Forces.

86
00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:42,240
My family have always been Armed Forces.

87
00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:47,240
My my grandfather was REF, my dad was REF, my mum was REF.

88
00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:56,240
So, you know, and I wanted to become a farrier and I wanted to get a trade.

89
00:06:56,240 --> 00:07:01,240
And where I was in Cheltenham, there was no apprenticeships going around.

90
00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:05,240
So I joined the army and I joined the Household Cavalry to become a farrier.

91
00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:13,240
That's why that's why I joined the army for originally anyway, not to be a sniper or anything, but to get a trade.

92
00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:19,240
And then once I've done with the army, leave the army, open my own business and become a farrier.

93
00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:24,240
And that was the whole plan, you know, and I didn't have a plan B, C or D.

94
00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:29,240
I just had a plan A, you know, and that's all I was focused on.

95
00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:31,240
But it didn't work out.

96
00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:35,240
I grew up in Bath, just outside Bath, and my dad was a horse vet.

97
00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:38,240
So I grew up around farm. I was on a farm and grew up around animals.

98
00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:40,240
So expand on that a little bit.

99
00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:45,240
Talk to me about the relationship with the dogs and the horses when you were young.

100
00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:50,240
Well, I think I had more relationship with the horses.

101
00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:56,240
I was show jumping. I did a lot of triathlons, like running, swimming, riding and shooting.

102
00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:58,240
I was very heavily into that.

103
00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:08,240
But when I was younger, I did a lot of ginkgana stuff, you know, the sports on the horses, like vaulting off and on, doing games on the horses and stuff like that.

104
00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:10,240
I got quite heavy into that when I was younger.

105
00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:15,240
And then I started show jumping and then started doing triathlons.

106
00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:22,240
And sort of like that's where my that's where my love for fitness came from as well, as well as horses.

107
00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:36,240
And I just felt, you know, I used to get up in the morning, sort of deal with the horses and then go to school, come back again and finish off what I didn't finish off in the morning.

108
00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:40,240
So I had a very shouted childhood.

109
00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:44,240
I know I had a brother, but we never got I we never saw eye to eye.

110
00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:46,240
So I never really done anything with him.

111
00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:51,240
I was always on my own doing the horses, doing the animals and stuff like that.

112
00:08:51,240 --> 00:09:03,240
So, yeah, and I think, you know, when school finished, I didn't do football or rugby or hockey or anything.

113
00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:04,240
I just came straight home.

114
00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:06,240
So, yeah, my childhood was very shouted.

115
00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:21,240
But the love for animals was very strong with me, you know, to this day now, you know, when you look back now with this 2024 lens, knowing that equine therapy, canine therapy is helping a lot of our men and women in uniform.

116
00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:30,240
What elements of that do you see in your childhood, especially if you like you said, you almost felt like an only child and you had that kind of companionship then?

117
00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:37,240
Yeah, my first horse was he was called Kipling, you know, loved him to bits, absolutely loved him.

118
00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:40,240
And he wasn't a show jumper. He was nothing.

119
00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:44,240
He was just a heavy clobber hopper horse.

120
00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:47,240
You get on and do a hack with him. Come home.

121
00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:54,240
And, you know, and then as I progressed in my horse career, I had to get a better horse.

122
00:09:54,240 --> 00:10:15,240
But I kept Kipling, you know, and it just I just they know animals know animals sense your vulnerability and they sense your what sort of person you are, you know, and they help you.

123
00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:19,240
They calm you down. They calm your heart rate down.

124
00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:28,240
You know, stroking animals or whatever. And it's funny because equine therapy now, they a horse won't go near you.

125
00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:33,240
And when you're a rat, when you calm down and relax, then the horse will approach you.

126
00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:41,240
So it makes you calm down because you're not going to experience the touch of a horse if you're quite erratic.

127
00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:46,240
So you have to relax and calm down. And the same with the dog as well.

128
00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:49,240
You know, my first dog, Betsy bless her.

129
00:10:49,240 --> 00:11:04,240
You know, I had it for 17 years and I registered her as my emotional support dog and I took her everywhere because she was my my crutch that I relied on.

130
00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:15,240
If I was having a moment or a flashback or anxiety or panic attack, she knew she wasn't trained, but she knew what I was like, you know.

131
00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:20,240
And yeah, it's just animals, animals. I love them. Love them.

132
00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:26,240
And some people say I love animals more than people. You know, it's probably right, really, sometimes. Yeah.

133
00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:33,240
I had a guy on the show really kind of like the real world inspiration for the whole the horse whisperer story.

134
00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:37,240
His name is Buck Braneman and he grew up. He was a boy.

135
00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:41,240
He and his brother were his dad was extremely kind of violent and abusive.

136
00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:49,240
And they were if you say like an old, old kind of serial commercial back in the day, you have these kids and they're doing that lassoing and stuff.

137
00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:58,240
Well, his dad wasn't a cowboy at all, but he kind of forced this kind of entertainment element on his children and made money from their career.

138
00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:02,240
And Buck found himself really being mentored by a police officer originally.

139
00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:06,240
And he got onto the ranches and found actually about being a horseman.

140
00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:12,240
And now he's an incredible, incredible guy. But when you talk about equine therapy, he's the one that I always think of.

141
00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:15,240
But he always said that a horse is the mirror to your soul.

142
00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:23,240
Just like you said, you know, if the horse is kind of being sketchy, that means that you're being sketchy and you have to calm yourself down.

143
00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:26,240
Yeah, they sent you same with a dog.

144
00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:32,240
The dog won't approach you when you're latic, but when you calm, then it will come up to you, you know.

145
00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:38,240
But it's a shame because we got equine therapy in England, but it's so expensive.

146
00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:40,240
It's so expensive to do.

147
00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:49,240
And I don't know why it's so expensive because we need stuff out there to help veterans or people with mental health issues, you know.

148
00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:52,240
But it all comes to a price at the end of the day.

149
00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:58,240
Yeah, that's weird because I mean, on the farm, we were, you know, animals were staying while they were being treated or sometimes they were just boarding.

150
00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:02,240
And so there's so many horses I know that need to be exercised and need to be ridden.

151
00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:09,240
So you'd think that, yeah, you could bring a group in to a place that has a lot of horses on there and allow them to work with them.

152
00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:11,240
And then you're killing two birds with one stone then.

153
00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:13,240
Exactly, exactly.

154
00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:17,240
But I suppose everyone needs to make a living at the end of the day, you know.

155
00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:19,240
Absolutely. All right.

156
00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:25,240
Well, then from the career side, you mentioned about what you were doing as far as, you know, your passions when you were young.

157
00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:26,240
What were you dreaming of becoming?

158
00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:32,240
Was it already the military with so many military members in your family or was there something else?

159
00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:39,240
Yeah, I think I was just guided that way by my mum, you know, to join the military because she knew where we lived.

160
00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:46,240
There was no prospects for jobs or anything, you know.

161
00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:50,240
If anyone's been to Cheltenham, it's full of elderly, you know.

162
00:13:50,240 --> 00:14:01,240
And I think this goes back years now, but I remember joining the army going back because I never went back at all after I joined the army.

163
00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:11,240
I think I went back for a couple of weeks and met people that I met at school that seeing the same girlfriend they saw at school and doing dead end jobs,

164
00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:17,240
but they haven't left Cheltenham, you know, and they haven't explored any avenues.

165
00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:22,240
And I think my mum wanted the best out of me and yeah, and my brother.

166
00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:25,240
And she said, look, I want you to join the army.

167
00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:32,240
And I think at the age of 10 years old, I had aspects of joining the military, you know.

168
00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:38,240
And like I said, I didn't have a plan B, you know, it was the military.

169
00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:42,240
And then it was my grandfather said to me, get a trade, get a trade.

170
00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:49,240
I wanted to be a farrier and something to fall back on, you know, when I left the army.

171
00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:54,240
And, you know, because you hear so many veterans lead the armed forces and they've got nothing, you know.

172
00:14:54,240 --> 00:15:03,240
And I wanted and I always say this, I wanted the army to work for me, not work for the army, as in to gather as much information,

173
00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:07,240
as much courses that have benefited me in civic street.

174
00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:15,240
But I was dyslexic when I joined the army and I struggled, I struggled in the forge, you know, when I joined the household cavalry.

175
00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:21,240
I really struggled, but my practical skills were on par, but my written work wasn't.

176
00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:26,240
So and I didn't make it. I didn't make it into the forge.

177
00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:29,240
But that was my plan A. I didn't have a plan B.

178
00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:33,240
What was it about blacksmithing that drew you in?

179
00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:39,240
I had one of my dad's blacksmiths basically that would come to the farm.

180
00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:45,240
Mick Strickland was his name. If you think about the stereotypical gypsy, you know, he had the neck chief,

181
00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:49,240
he had the missing teeth from a flat nose from all his fistfights, he smoked rollies.

182
00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:53,240
I mean, absolute classic, you know, and then a man's man as well.

183
00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:56,240
But he was hard as nails, but that was his craft.

184
00:15:56,240 --> 00:16:00,240
But when I think about what Mick did, I don't think about academics and book work.

185
00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:04,240
I think about, you know, as you said, what you're actually doing in the forge.

186
00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:09,240
So what was it that drew you to smithing specifically?

187
00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:13,240
One, to get a trade. And secondly, my love for horses, you know,

188
00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:18,240
knowing the anatomy, knowing the reveteries sides as well as riding and competing.

189
00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:23,240
Just everything. I just wanted to know everything about the equine life.

190
00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:33,240
And when you join the House of Cavalry and you can either become a riding instructor or you can become a farrier.

191
00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:38,240
And, yeah, my love for horses, I should have become a riding instructor.

192
00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:45,240
But I think my grandfather always guided me saying, look, you need to benefit from the army.

193
00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:52,240
And I think, yeah, to be the forge. And it's just, you know, it's a workout for one.

194
00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:57,240
And it's good money. It's good money in city street.

195
00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:04,240
And that's what I wanted to do. And I wanted to get married at some point and provide for my family.

196
00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:12,240
And you never see a poor farrier, but you see knackered farriers with their backs and all of that, you know.

197
00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:15,240
And I'm six four as well, but all farriers are quite small.

198
00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:24,240
But like I said, it never worked out. But it was a shame because, like I said, my practical skills were really good.

199
00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:30,240
You know, putting the shoe on, taking the shoe off, making the shoe and stuff like that.

200
00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:38,240
But when it comes to the veterinary side of stuff and the written side and the anatomy, I struggled with my writing, my reading and my writing.

201
00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:44,240
And they didn't want that. So when when they set us homework, I was doing more illustration work.

202
00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:52,240
More than written work. And they didn't want it. So that's a shame because now you look at education and we're realizing that, yeah, we all learn in different ways.

203
00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:57,240
Like people, you know, they'll read textbooks or they'll make flashcards. I can't do that at all.

204
00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:02,240
I have to take practice tests, get a shitload wrong and then go back and go, why did I get that wrong?

205
00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:11,240
Now it makes sense to me. Now I get it. So we're all different. Yeah. Yeah. I used to the other courses I used to in the army.

206
00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:15,240
Tanya, my wife, she used to help me all the time, test me all the time.

207
00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:19,240
You know, if I was on guard, I used to text her questions.

208
00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:24,240
She used to text me questions and then I used to text her the answer back.

209
00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:28,240
But it got to the point where I was sleeping with dictaphone in.

210
00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:35,240
So I'd go into a lesson, I'd put the dictaphone on and the instructors talking so I don't have to write down.

211
00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:43,240
And at night I'll just plug me in because they say when you're asleep, you take so much information in, you know, even when you're asleep.

212
00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:57,240
And that's what I used to do. And I wish I knew that skill when I was going through the far East stage because, you know, maybe I wouldn't be where I am now.

213
00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:03,240
Maybe my path would have gone a different way. But I want to met my wife because my path would have gone somewhere different.

214
00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:07,240
So it's fate. We're destined for things.

215
00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:13,240
Absolutely. Well, you mentioned about failing at the forge then. Where did that take you in the military itself?

216
00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:27,240
So my regiment split into two. So we've got the ceremonial side, we'll do troop in the colour, Queen's birthday, captain's escorts and all sorts of things.

217
00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:38,240
They do open the state of parliament, the galas and stuff. And then you've got the armoured side, which is armoured reconnaissance, which they've changed the vehicle now.

218
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:46,240
But in my time, it was Spartans, Simitars, Sultans and stuff like that. And I loved it.

219
00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:57,240
And I think because I didn't have a plan B, I went AWOL and joined the French Foreign Legion.

220
00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:07,240
And I didn't last long in the French Foreign Legion because I told them the truth.

221
00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:13,240
I said I was AWOL from the British Army and they said we don't accept people that are AWOL.

222
00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:20,240
It's not like they used to years and years ago if you're a murderer or whatever, they used to take you, but they don't do that now.

223
00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:28,240
So they kicked me out. I came back and they said that I was getting in a lot of trouble.

224
00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:35,240
Could you think I was a single kid? I felt like a single kid when I was younger, very shouted.

225
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:46,240
Next thing I'm in the army in the centre of London with money in my pocket. I've never been drunk, never been in a fight, very shouted.

226
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:51,240
Next thing I know there's lights everywhere. I'm getting drunk. I'm fighting.

227
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:57,240
So the regiment in Knightsbridge made the decision to take me to Windsor.

228
00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:14,240
And do you know what, James, I fucking flourished, absolutely flourished. And I never got in any drama, you know, once I went to Windsor because I was so engrossed in what I was doing.

229
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:21,240
You know, I like being out in the countryside. I like being on exercise. I like being a sneaky bastard.

230
00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:29,240
I like just the way the EFOS is running the regiment. It was fantastic. And, you know, and that was that was my goal.

231
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:38,240
I didn't have aspects of being a sniper. I, you know, I'm just bobbing around in a little tank and it was brilliant.

232
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:45,240
When I think about I went to the University of North London, so I went from rural Bath area to North London.

233
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:54,240
And, you know, it was good. I mean, it served a purpose and it was different. But I've always felt when I've lived in cities, I've lived in Osaka, Japan, all kinds of places,

234
00:21:54,240 --> 00:22:03,240
that when you squish that many people in together and you remove a lot of the green, it's kind of a recipe for disaster.

235
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:15,240
So did you find that growing up on a rural part of the UK, once you got back to the rural area, that was a big part of undoing some of the things that you created in the city of London?

236
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:30,240
Oh, massively, you know, and a lot of regrets, a lot of regrets, you know, some stuff I'd done in London, you know, and I'm glad I got out of London, you know, and I don't miss it.

237
00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:38,240
I don't miss it to this day now. Tanya is her family are from London, well, her dad and all that.

238
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:44,240
But she likes going into London and I absolutely hate it because I just it's not me.

239
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:56,240
I'm a country boy and I always will be a country boy, you know, and I think a bit of depression set in there and then because

240
00:22:56,240 --> 00:23:10,240
it was just moving a thousand miles an hour, London cities move a thousand miles an hour and you ever see on films or when somebody stands stationary and all the cars are going like that and you just stood there going, what the fuck is going on?

241
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:19,240
You know, and I didn't want to lose myself and I felt I was losing myself a lot in London.

242
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:28,240
So I was very grateful of the regiment taking me to Windsor, you know, it's probably saved my life in a way, massively.

243
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:41,240
I wrote a book a few years ago and kind of touched on the fact that it's so sad that someone can feel so alone in a city surrounded by literally millions of people.

244
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:47,240
I think just because you've got people around you doesn't mean you have a connection with people.

245
00:23:47,240 --> 00:24:06,240
And do you know what, James, as well, I bought a camper van not so long ago because I love camper vans and I had to get a train to go and pick it up and I went got on the train and as the train went by I counted the people at the platform and they're all on these.

246
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:20,240
30 people I counted with their heads down, just clicking away and I'm thinking where's where have we gone as people, you know, where have we gone?

247
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:29,240
And I just think it's very sad, you know, and yeah, I just people need to experience more in their life than technology.

248
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:37,240
And I think the countryside gives you that, you know, and gives you that release of depression as well. Absolutely.

249
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:43,240
I was listening to a stand up comedian not long ago and he was talking about mindfulness because I think I think we're roughly the same age.

250
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:49,240
I'm 50 now and he's like back in the day, everything you did was mindfulness, especially when you grew up on a farm.

251
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:56,240
You're like talking to the sheep was mindfulness, you know, having a poo and reading the the death toll bottle just so you got something to look at.

252
00:24:56,240 --> 00:25:03,240
Everything was mindfulness, you know, and now and I say as a grown up, you know, I see that pull of that phone myself.

253
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:09,240
I run my business through, you know, a lot of it and I we communicated through social media, but it is it is such a pull.

254
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:17,240
And if you are not making a deliberate effort to not look at your phone, just like you said, you'll be you'll be in a supermarket.

255
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:22,240
And all you got to do is wait, you know, a minute and a half and you'll be there to check out and you whip out your phone.

256
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:30,240
You know, it's like we have become slaves to it and each and every one of us has to kind of really be deliberate and just leave it in your damn pocket or leave it at home.

257
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,240
I do that when I walk my dog, so I don't even bring my phone with me.

258
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:37,240
I don't. I'll leave it here. Tanya goes, you got your phone on you?

259
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:41,240
I said no, I haven't meant to get old of you because she goes her thing and I do mine.

260
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:45,240
I think it's one of those things I haven't got it stuck to me permanently.

261
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:49,240
So I think that's the older generation, you know.

262
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:56,240
Yeah, absolutely. Well, walk me through how you found yourself deployed in the Balkans.

263
00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:09,240
So basically, that's my first tour was Bosnia and the regiment were doing a lot of Bosnia tours because there was nothing more going on in the world.

264
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:19,240
So we were just there to keep the peace, you know, and you get the odd firefight between the locals and stuff like that.

265
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:31,240
But mainly we were there to patrol the streets and to, yeah, to keep the peace, stop the ethnic cleansing, which was horrendous.

266
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:46,240
Yeah, so many memories of Bosnia itself, you know, when they got like crosses on the door and they got a blue one, they got the sympathizers will have a blue cross or something.

267
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,240
And the next one won't have a cross or they get pillaged.

268
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:53,240
And absolutely horrendous how they got treated.

269
00:26:53,240 --> 00:27:07,240
And we had to stand by and watch that going on because we had hands were tied for certain stuff like engaging the enemy, stopping the pillaging and stuff like that.

270
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:09,240
We were there to keep the peace.

271
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:13,240
But there was a limit on what we could do.

272
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,240
And it was hard to see these people suffering.

273
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:29,240
You know, I ended up doing three tours of Bosnia because you do six months and come back and then go back out again, train for another six months and then go back out again.

274
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,240
So we're just bouncing tours. That's what we call it bouncing.

275
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:38,240
So, you know, I quite liked it, you know, I quite I enjoyed going away.

276
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:41,240
I was a single lad. I didn't have family.

277
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:49,240
My mum sort of like once I joined the army, she sort of lost that contact with me a little bit.

278
00:27:49,240 --> 00:28:02,240
And I wasn't phoning home all the time. I was just just getting on my job, you know, and there was other lads in the army like that as well that didn't have family, didn't have girlfriends or anything like that.

279
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:07,240
So we just hung out, you know, and yeah, that they were the Bosnia tours.

280
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:12,240
So and then slowly the tours got worse and worse.

281
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:16,240
What did you see? And this could include Afghanistan, Iraq as well.

282
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:23,240
But, you know, in Bosnia, you're still in Europe, you know, supposedly was supposed to be more kind of westernized and, you know, civilized.

283
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:28,240
And I use that term empathetically, not talking ill of people in the Middle East.

284
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:41,240
But when you reflect on history, for example, I heard Sebastian Junger talking about being in Sarajevo and the regular people were trying to get on with their life while all this was going on.

285
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:56,240
And over and over again, to me, it appears that there's this repeat element of the tyrannical few, the really, you know, greed and power hungry few that caused death and destruction for the masses.

286
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,240
Look at Gaza, look at Ukraine, look at all these things.

287
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,240
I don't think most Russian people dreamt of entering the Ukraine.

288
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:03,240
They were just getting on with their life, you know.

289
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:14,240
So what would you especially with this interesting lens in Bosnia, what were you seeing as far as the regular people versus the people behind the violence?

290
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:19,240
There were genuine people, you know.

291
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:33,240
Sort of Bosnia, genuine people, happy to see you, but annoyed with you because we couldn't help all the time because our hands were tied.

292
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:41,240
Because if we got heavily involved and that's Serbia kicking off with us as well, do you know what I mean, with the Albanians.

293
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:59,240
And then Kosovo, you know, our job in Kosovo is to kick the Serbians out of Kosovo itself because they were invading it and pushing them back over to the Serbian border.

294
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:03,240
And then we're only meant to be there for three months as a fighting force.

295
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:10,240
And then another load will come in, another battle group will come in and take our place.

296
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:19,240
But because typical army way, there wasn't enough bots on the ground, we ended up being a peacekeeping force, you know, as well.

297
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:30,240
So you've got somebody down the road that was shooting at you one minute and the next day you're giving them a football and some colouring crayons and doing hearts and minds.

298
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:37,240
And then it goes to Iraq, you know, Iraq was all about oil.

299
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,240
Definitely all about oil.

300
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:48,240
And so Afghan was all about, yeah, getting the terrorism.

301
00:30:48,240 --> 00:31:04,240
But at the end of the day, when you stop and think about Afghan, the 10 years of fighting and how how quick the Taliban went through everything in a month to take Kabul, it was all set up.

302
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:13,240
Everything set up, you know, and it makes me feel was it was it fucking worth it?

303
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:21,240
You know, Afghan, was it worth it? Not really. All to do with money or to do with underhanded table deals and stuff like that.

304
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:24,240
Beyond my pay scale, I was just there doing the job.

305
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:29,240
You know, Iraq's the same. Do you know, they had no IEDs in Afghanistan.

306
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:45,240
So when Iraq sort of shut down, all the IEDs sort of emigrated to Afghan and it was just horrendous, you know, and go back to Kosovo again, you know.

307
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:48,240
What was that all about? I don't know.

308
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,240
I don't know.

309
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:52,240
Invading another country.

310
00:31:52,240 --> 00:32:00,240
And then we kick them out and then we end up digging up mass graves and putting bodies in bags and stuff like that.

311
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:02,240
And it's horrendous, horrendous.

312
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:17,240
I think Kosovo was my worst toll for genocide was what would be Kosovo without a doubt and dealing with it and making it hard to see what a human being can do to another human being.

313
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:36,240
You know, I think this is this is the conversation that we need to listen to your voices the most the actual men and women of the military from around the world that were on the ground, because, you know, we're getting our news through arguably propaganda to say, you know, say, for example, because it's more pro war.

314
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:40,240
I would argue if you're watching Fox News here in America, it's like rah rah rah.

315
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:55,240
Yeah, you know, Team America, World Police, let's go. And but I remember after 9 11 listening to the response and going into Iraq and going, am I the only person that is questioning this is a completely different country?

316
00:32:55,240 --> 00:33:11,240
I think if the US attacked the UK, and then the UK came after Mexico, you know, it's, it's close, but it's a different country. And so that was mind boggling. And then I just spoke to Tulsi Gabbard a few years ago, a few years ago, a few months ago.

317
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:39,240
And I was asking her as well, if, as we have seen, there are so many companies that make billions of dollars when we are war, where's the checks and balances to stop us going to war, you know, and you listen to the infrastructure, you know, Halliburton, Halliburton, I think it was, but you know, the Cheney and all these people in our, you know, government here, whose companies made billions and billions of dollars,

318
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:58,240
you know, while men and women come home in coffins draped in flags. At what point do we just that the human beings of the world, the regular citizens, take a step back and go, what is the common denominator? It's always a small group of people that initiate these conflicts, and it's our children that pay the price.

319
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:17,240
Oh, massively, without a doubt. And I think I looked into it, the Iraq stuff, and when Tony Blair and these head scientists guy went into Iraq to find the chemical nuclear weapons that he had, he come back to England, saw Tony Blair and said, they haven't got any.

320
00:34:17,240 --> 00:34:30,240
And he goes, they have got any, go back and do it again. He went back over, couldn't find any, came back, written a report out, said, they haven't got any. And then two weeks later, he was found in the woods, he committed suicide.

321
00:34:30,240 --> 00:34:39,240
And then when they did an autopsy on him, they found that he slit his wrist, but they were so shallow that they wouldn't be enough to kill him.

322
00:34:39,240 --> 00:35:01,240
And a month after that we went into Iraq, and they've got nuclear capability. So, you know, and when we were going from Kuwait into Iraq, it was just full of oil pipes, as far as the eye could see, full of oil pipes, and they were ready to pump the oil out of Iraq into Kuwait.

323
00:35:01,240 --> 00:35:12,240
But the Iraqis knew this, and that's why they knocked all the oil heads off and set all the oil fields on fire, because they're not stupid. They knew it was like that, you know.

324
00:35:12,240 --> 00:35:14,240
It's so sad.

325
00:35:14,240 --> 00:35:23,240
There's a question that I ask everyone who's deployed and won't want to get to your journey as a sniper and all that, but just while we're kind of on this more ethical conversation.

326
00:35:23,240 --> 00:35:37,240
We, especially here in the US, get a very polarized view when it comes to news here on war. So either, as I mentioned, they're kind of more right leaning, kill them all, like God saw them out, or the left leaning, they're all baby killers.

327
00:35:37,240 --> 00:35:44,240
And in the middle, as I mentioned before, are our men and women who actually go out there with the country's flag on their shoulder.

328
00:35:44,240 --> 00:36:01,240
There's a two part question. The first part, regardless of the politics, sent you over there, and you've kind of touched on this with Bosnia already. Were there moments where you realized that, yes, there are some horrendous people that do need to be addressed in this particular country?

329
00:36:01,240 --> 00:36:10,240
Yeah, because you're doing a job at the end of the day, and you're trained to do that job, you know. If you don't fight, they're going to shoot you.

330
00:36:10,240 --> 00:36:21,240
And I remember my wife saying to me, she said, yeah, but they've got families as well. They've got a wife, they've got kids, you know, they've got a life.

331
00:36:21,240 --> 00:36:31,240
And I said, yeah, but it's weird, isn't it? Say if I was Afghan and I was talking to you, I'd say exactly the same thing about the British troops.

332
00:36:31,240 --> 00:36:44,240
You know, saying, yeah, I've got a family, they've got a family, and that's what it is, like, tit for tat, you know, but you've got to survive. And going back to what we were saying about the point.

333
00:36:44,240 --> 00:37:02,240
So when we was in Afghan, we were going into villages and we were discouraging people to stop growing opium and we were giving them oats and wheat. And we were saying, there we go, there's oats and wheat.

334
00:37:02,240 --> 00:37:11,240
Grow this instead of opium and you'll get, you know, we'll look after you. But you think we're in that village and then we fuck off for a few days.

335
00:37:11,240 --> 00:37:24,240
And then we come back and everyone's dead in that village. All right. Because we speak to the elders and they said it's more profitable us to grow opium because the Taliban protect us.

336
00:37:24,240 --> 00:37:35,240
And once we've got the harvesting, they give us money so we can live off, you know, so we're doing the wrong thing by encouraging them to do the right thing.

337
00:37:35,240 --> 00:37:54,240
But they're suffering for it. And going back to what you were saying about how they approached us, how they responded for us being there, they didn't like us because we were encouraging them to do something they didn't want to do because the Taliban protected them.

338
00:37:54,240 --> 00:37:58,240
And if they didn't grow the opium, they get all shot.

339
00:37:58,240 --> 00:38:10,240
Talk to me about the opium. It's really interesting when I started this podcast and again organically in conversations just like this, you know, there would be it would kind of find itself on on that conversation.

340
00:38:10,240 --> 00:38:18,240
And early in the podcast, the first probably four years, people were like super tight lipped about discussing that at all.

341
00:38:18,240 --> 00:38:34,240
The reason why it would even go there is my lens as a firefighter paramedic was I see we see my community, the actual horrendous results of the prohibition of drugs, what that does empowering the underworld, the addiction, the homelessness, the sex work, all the things.

342
00:38:34,240 --> 00:38:40,240
And we see it clear as day because we respond to it with the last person some of these people see.

343
00:38:40,240 --> 00:38:50,240
But then you start hearing about four years ago, five years ago, maybe people started, you know, opening up and saying, yeah, it was, you know, it was supplying funding terrorism.

344
00:38:50,240 --> 00:39:05,240
So to me, again, this prohibition conversation, if people understood that firstly, the psychedelics and MDMA that are helping our veterans are completely demonized and a lot of them have to go to different countries to get the therapy for their service for that country.

345
00:39:05,240 --> 00:39:12,240
But secondly, that that same prohibition prohibition actually funded the terrorism as well.

346
00:39:12,240 --> 00:39:16,240
So what was your lens on opium in this conflict?

347
00:39:16,240 --> 00:39:19,240
Horrendous drug. Do you know what I mean?

348
00:39:19,240 --> 00:39:21,240
Very addictive drug.

349
00:39:21,240 --> 00:39:24,240
We never we saw it growing.

350
00:39:24,240 --> 00:39:31,240
And we also saw a hell of a lot of it because the tours that I'd done were like winter tours.

351
00:39:31,240 --> 00:39:50,240
So when it's still hot there, but when it comes to harvesting the opium, you know, it's all done in dusted and round the back of the buildings, you just saw stacks of dried up opium poppies with the scrapes on because that's what they do.

352
00:39:50,240 --> 00:39:53,240
They scrape the head and then it bleeds out a white sap.

353
00:39:53,240 --> 00:39:55,240
And that's what they harvest.

354
00:39:55,240 --> 00:39:57,240
And that's that's the opium.

355
00:39:57,240 --> 00:40:04,240
But a lot of cannabis out there as well. And they had massive fields of cannabis.

356
00:40:04,240 --> 00:40:12,240
And we said to them, you can grow cannabis, but long as it's for your own consumption.

357
00:40:12,240 --> 00:40:14,240
And they're going, yeah, yeah, of course it is.

358
00:40:14,240 --> 00:40:16,240
But it was fucking fields of it.

359
00:40:16,240 --> 00:40:23,240
You know, we used to patrol on our feet and we used to patrol through the fields of cannabis and stuff like that.

360
00:40:23,240 --> 00:40:29,240
A funny story was we was on a patrol and our job was to keep the left flank.

361
00:40:29,240 --> 00:40:36,240
And every now and again, we put a mini flare up and one of the mini flares went into one of the cannabis fields and set on fire.

362
00:40:36,240 --> 00:40:41,240
And next thing you know, all the wind changed and it was coming our way.

363
00:40:41,240 --> 00:40:43,240
And everyone was like getting a bit smacked.

364
00:40:43,240 --> 00:40:48,240
So we were just lads were getting the munchies, everything.

365
00:40:48,240 --> 00:40:50,240
So we go, come on, we need to move out of the way.

366
00:40:50,240 --> 00:40:53,240
And we're going to put this field burn, you know.

367
00:40:53,240 --> 00:41:02,240
But yeah, but you'll never stop it because once you stop the source, another source will take its place.

368
00:41:02,240 --> 00:41:05,240
So these people saying, let's cut the head off a snake.

369
00:41:05,240 --> 00:41:08,240
Yeah, but there's thousands of snakes out there.

370
00:41:08,240 --> 00:41:09,240
Yeah. Yeah.

371
00:41:09,240 --> 00:41:13,240
And yeah, it's money. It's money.

372
00:41:13,240 --> 00:41:18,240
And the locals got good money off the Taliban for growing opium and protected.

373
00:41:18,240 --> 00:41:21,240
We couldn't do that. We couldn't do that.

374
00:41:21,240 --> 00:41:31,240
It was too a bigger job for us for the scale of the country to how many people we had out on the field on the grounds.

375
00:41:31,240 --> 00:41:34,240
It was too big for us to cope with that.

376
00:41:34,240 --> 00:41:41,240
Well, it's interesting with that head of the snake analogy, because how you actually cut the head off the snake is you take away the customers, the consumers.

377
00:41:41,240 --> 00:41:49,240
And America, for example, consumes 75 percent of the world's opiates, and we only make up four percent of the world's population.

378
00:41:49,240 --> 00:41:54,240
So by criminalizing addiction, we've empowered even the Taliban.

379
00:41:54,240 --> 00:42:00,240
You actually put someone who's struggling with addiction in the hands of the medical community rather than a prison.

380
00:42:00,240 --> 00:42:04,240
Now, all of a sudden, you truly cut the head off the snake because it's supply and demand.

381
00:42:04,240 --> 00:42:16,240
And what a beautiful thing it would be that down the road, Afghanistan is sought after for coffee, avocados, oats, you know, whatever that crop would be, because there's just simply no demand for opium anymore.

382
00:42:16,240 --> 00:42:19,240
So they can't terrorize the villages.

383
00:42:19,240 --> 00:42:24,240
Yeah. Yeah. But it's money, isn't it? It's big money.

384
00:42:24,240 --> 00:42:28,240
You know, it would never stop. Addiction is a horrible thing.

385
00:42:28,240 --> 00:42:36,240
And your brains are a fantastic thing. And once it gets addiction, but you want more, more, more.

386
00:42:36,240 --> 00:42:41,240
You like you just, you know, your feet, like you said, you're feeding that head of the snake.

387
00:42:41,240 --> 00:42:49,240
Absolutely. That's why I think, like I said, you got you got to decriminalize addiction, not smuggling, not selling, but addiction and then start healing those people that are hurting.

388
00:42:49,240 --> 00:42:51,240
That's the only way that we do it.

389
00:42:51,240 --> 00:42:59,240
Well, I mentioned that other question was a two part question, the other side of it before we get to the sniping side.

390
00:42:59,240 --> 00:43:06,240
What we also don't hear on these polarized news stations are the kindness and compassion of our men and women in uniform.

391
00:43:06,240 --> 00:43:11,240
So whether it was, you know, the people that you worked, you were protecting the indigenous forces, your own people.

392
00:43:11,240 --> 00:43:18,240
What was some of the memories that you have of kindness and compassion amid some of these combat zones?

393
00:43:18,240 --> 00:43:28,240
The majority of the time is when children suffer, you know, children hitting IEDs, getting shot in a firefight and stuff like that.

394
00:43:28,240 --> 00:43:34,240
And the insurgents do not stop and help. They just fuck off.

395
00:43:34,240 --> 00:43:47,240
So the kids there with no leg or no arm or being shot and the locals sort of like take to us kindly because we ended up helping them.

396
00:43:47,240 --> 00:44:06,240
And we call helicopters in to Kazevak the family out, take them to either Bastion or Basra or in Kosovo into Pristina, you know, to help them children and then give them prospective limbs and help them.

397
00:44:06,240 --> 00:44:08,240
And people don't see that.

398
00:44:08,240 --> 00:44:11,240
They just see we're fighting force trying to destruct everything.

399
00:44:11,240 --> 00:44:30,240
But we're not. We're there at the end of day to stamp ourselves authority, but also to do hearts and minds for the locals, make their lives better, you know, to show that we're not just murderers or whatever they call us.

400
00:44:30,240 --> 00:44:37,240
We're there to help you as well. We're here to help you if you get in trouble or drama or anything, you know.

401
00:44:37,240 --> 00:44:46,240
I've been on helicopters before and, you know, lads, the helicopters landed and it's had families of Afghans or Iraqis in there.

402
00:44:46,240 --> 00:44:50,240
And we put an hour wounded on as well. You know, we're not leaving them.

403
00:44:50,240 --> 00:44:55,240
And I think that separates us from other insurgents massively.

404
00:44:55,240 --> 00:45:10,240
I've heard so many stories like that, you know, whether it's PJs or nurses or doctors or, you know, the Cassavak crew, whoever it is, over and over again, you know, fighting to save the life even of an enemy combatant, you know, on occasion.

405
00:45:10,240 --> 00:45:12,240
So these are the things that we don't hear.

406
00:45:12,240 --> 00:45:15,240
And obviously the Taliban is spreading their propaganda.

407
00:45:15,240 --> 00:45:19,240
You know, this happening in Gaza is happening again in Ukraine and Russia, Russia.

408
00:45:19,240 --> 00:45:23,240
But it's also happening here. It's happening back home in the UK.

409
00:45:23,240 --> 00:45:28,240
You know, we're only hearing the story they want us to hear like, oh, we need to keep fighting this war.

410
00:45:28,240 --> 00:45:31,240
You know, there's weapons of mass destruction in there, you know.

411
00:45:31,240 --> 00:45:35,240
And so all of us have to be aware of the propaganda that's being spouted.

412
00:45:35,240 --> 00:45:47,240
And I think this is the enemy of that is hearing the real voices of the people that were there, whatever the event, whether it's the, you know, the hurricane that hit North Carolina or whether it's troops fighting in Afghanistan.

413
00:45:47,240 --> 00:45:52,240
Yours are the voices that we need to hear, not some politician who's spinning things.

414
00:45:52,240 --> 00:45:55,240
Oh, yeah. And like you said, it's propaganda.

415
00:45:55,240 --> 00:45:59,240
You know, so the person sitting at home is going, fucking hell.

416
00:45:59,240 --> 00:46:03,240
Yeah, I'll donate money. I'll do this. I'll do that.

417
00:46:03,240 --> 00:46:06,240
But it's not really like it really is, you know.

418
00:46:06,240 --> 00:46:12,240
No, absolutely not. Well, then walk me through your journey, even to even becoming a sniper.

419
00:46:12,240 --> 00:46:18,240
And then let's kind of get to the the event that a lot of people like to talk to you about.

420
00:46:18,240 --> 00:46:24,240
So I was in Iraq. This is my first tour.

421
00:46:24,240 --> 00:46:28,240
And the Americans went to Baghdad.

422
00:46:28,240 --> 00:46:34,240
We went to a place called Alamara and then we pushed on to Basra.

423
00:46:34,240 --> 00:46:39,240
But we had to take over Alamara and fight in Alamara.

424
00:46:39,240 --> 00:46:49,240
And we took over a massive football stadium, I think it was the Royal Irish and us fighting to get a foothold.

425
00:46:49,240 --> 00:46:53,240
And it was like squeezing a tube of toothpaste.

426
00:46:53,240 --> 00:47:00,240
You know, you squeeze it or the insurgent came out at one end and they all went off to Basra or Baghdad.

427
00:47:00,240 --> 00:47:07,240
So I remember I had a bit of downtime from the lull and the battle.

428
00:47:07,240 --> 00:47:12,240
And I went for a little walk and I went around the football stadium when I went up to the top.

429
00:47:12,240 --> 00:47:17,240
And I remember seeing each post had about five snipers.

430
00:47:17,240 --> 00:47:24,240
And I thought, you know, so I went up and I just started talking to this sniper and he didn't move his head or anything.

431
00:47:24,240 --> 00:47:29,240
He just steady on the glass, you know, and he was just talking to me.

432
00:47:29,240 --> 00:47:37,240
And I thought and every time I saw knocking around, the professionality was fucking second to none.

433
00:47:37,240 --> 00:47:42,240
You know, and they got treated like adults as well because of the job they'd done as well.

434
00:47:42,240 --> 00:47:46,240
And I thought this is what I want to do. This is what I want to become.

435
00:47:46,240 --> 00:47:49,240
This is my fucking plan B, you know.

436
00:47:49,240 --> 00:47:56,240
And so when you come off tour, you have to do career courses.

437
00:47:56,240 --> 00:48:06,240
And when the Sergeant Major will come round near you end the tour and say, look, you've got to do this, you've got to do that, you've got to do that.

438
00:48:06,240 --> 00:48:11,240
But if you've done them all, career courses, you can choose a course that you wish to do.

439
00:48:11,240 --> 00:48:14,240
And I said, I want to become a sniper.

440
00:48:14,240 --> 00:48:20,240
And there's no role in the household cavalry for snipers because we're armoured with reconnaissance.

441
00:48:20,240 --> 00:48:24,240
And I thought fair enough. And I kept badgering, I kept badgering, I kept badgering.

442
00:48:24,240 --> 00:48:32,240
And I remember going up to my squadron called Major and I said to him, I want to become a sniper.

443
00:48:32,240 --> 00:48:34,240
And he just changed hands with the old one.

444
00:48:34,240 --> 00:48:39,240
And I knew the new guy is a top bloke. And he said, OK, then I'll get you one.

445
00:48:39,240 --> 00:48:41,240
I was like, brilliant.

446
00:48:41,240 --> 00:48:47,240
But I sort of like didn't shoot myself in the foot really, because I thought fucking out.

447
00:48:47,240 --> 00:48:51,240
I don't know much about sniping. I'm going down to the sniper school.

448
00:48:51,240 --> 00:48:56,240
I haven't got no, I've had no pre-course.

449
00:48:56,240 --> 00:49:01,240
Majority of these lads have been in the sniper platoons, in the guards or in the powers.

450
00:49:01,240 --> 00:49:07,240
You know, they've been embedded with them for months, getting all the knowledge and everything.

451
00:49:07,240 --> 00:49:10,240
Me, I've just got told, yeah, I can go down.

452
00:49:10,240 --> 00:49:16,240
So I went down and with my kit bag and I didn't have a ghillie suit.

453
00:49:16,240 --> 00:49:20,240
I didn't have off-board sticks, spot and scope, laser binos.

454
00:49:20,240 --> 00:49:25,240
I didn't have a rifle, didn't have a scope. I didn't have anything.

455
00:49:25,240 --> 00:49:30,240
And the caveat was that is that I supplied the minibus for the school.

456
00:49:30,240 --> 00:49:36,240
So when we went to the ranges, the household cavalry supplied the minibus for me to get on the course.

457
00:49:36,240 --> 00:49:38,240
And I thought, yeah, fucking brilliant.

458
00:49:38,240 --> 00:49:43,240
But luckily there was a Coldstream guard there and he had loads of spare kit.

459
00:49:43,240 --> 00:49:49,240
And he gave me a rifle, gave me a scope, finger spot and scope, wind meter, all the stuff that I needed.

460
00:49:49,240 --> 00:49:55,240
And the ghillie suit that I made over the weekends, my off-board and my sticks and stuff like that.

461
00:49:55,240 --> 00:50:03,240
And on your sniper's course, it's nine weeks or nine and a half weeks, if I remember rightly.

462
00:50:03,240 --> 00:50:08,240
And you do a shooting phase first and that's two weeks.

463
00:50:08,240 --> 00:50:15,240
And then after the two weeks shooting, once you've passed that, you become a sharpshooter.

464
00:50:15,240 --> 00:50:22,240
And then you go on to the sniper phase, which is the sneaky beaky bit where you do the stalks,

465
00:50:22,240 --> 00:50:26,240
where you do the seven skills to be a sniper.

466
00:50:26,240 --> 00:50:32,240
And yeah, I fucking loved it, James. I fucking loved it.

467
00:50:32,240 --> 00:50:36,240
And I excelled in it.

468
00:50:36,240 --> 00:50:42,240
And 30 started our course and four passed. And that was me as well.

469
00:50:42,240 --> 00:50:51,240
So yeah, chuffed a bit. And I went back to the regiment and the role of the household cavalry had changed.

470
00:50:51,240 --> 00:50:56,240
And they started allowing snipers into the household cavalry.

471
00:50:56,240 --> 00:51:00,240
And I was the first one in the household cavalry to become a sniper.

472
00:51:00,240 --> 00:51:08,240
And it was my job then to give everyone a pre-course to go down to the sniper school to start, you know,

473
00:51:08,240 --> 00:51:11,240
to start learning how to become a sniper.

474
00:51:11,240 --> 00:51:14,240
And from there, I wanted to learn more.

475
00:51:14,240 --> 00:51:21,240
So I did my basic snipering and then I did my section commanders and then I did my platoon commanders.

476
00:51:21,240 --> 00:51:27,240
And then I did advanced snipering. So I couldn't go any higher than I already was, you know.

477
00:51:27,240 --> 00:51:33,240
And then eventually after all my tours, I went down to sniper school while I learned.

478
00:51:33,240 --> 00:51:37,240
And I was a teacher for two years down there. So yeah.

479
00:51:37,240 --> 00:51:45,240
How much did growing up on a farm or growing up in rural Cheltenham factor into your success in the sniper school?

480
00:51:45,240 --> 00:51:51,240
Oh, brilliant. Because I was used to being piss wet through. So I was all right.

481
00:51:51,240 --> 00:51:54,240
I was quite happy with that. You know, I didn't mind getting dirty.

482
00:51:54,240 --> 00:51:57,240
I didn't mind getting wet or anything like that.

483
00:51:57,240 --> 00:52:03,240
You know, we used to say, saying, you know, they can't make you pregnant, can they?

484
00:52:03,240 --> 00:52:10,240
Do you know what I mean? You know, and when you're crawling through a puddle, you're on your belt buckle and stuff like that,

485
00:52:10,240 --> 00:52:15,240
it's got to end at some point. They can't keep making you and thrashing you.

486
00:52:15,240 --> 00:52:18,240
It will. Everyone. Everything's got an end point.

487
00:52:18,240 --> 00:52:23,240
And that's all focused in my mind. You know, I was.

488
00:52:23,240 --> 00:52:31,240
Yeah, I was married. I met Tanya then and I was married and she gave me massive support, you know.

489
00:52:31,240 --> 00:52:40,240
And I think having a stable relationship and a stable wife helped me through the course as well,

490
00:52:40,240 --> 00:52:46,240
because, you know, she gave me inspiration, you know, to carry on my strength, to carry on.

491
00:52:46,240 --> 00:52:53,240
Beautiful. I heard you talking on the Labbible podcast, which is a great interview, by the way.

492
00:52:53,240 --> 00:52:59,240
And the other day there was a news article that Tupperware sadly has gone bankrupt now, it's closed down.

493
00:52:59,240 --> 00:53:05,240
But I know that they would be moved to hear how they factored into your success as a sniper with your partner.

494
00:53:05,240 --> 00:53:11,240
So talk to me about the importance of a partner, not only from the spotting side,

495
00:53:11,240 --> 00:53:18,240
but from when you need to relieve yourself when you're in that prone position.

496
00:53:18,240 --> 00:53:21,240
First of all, James, has Tupperware seriously gone bankrupt?

497
00:53:21,240 --> 00:53:27,240
I believe so. But what a legacy they've left with what we're about to hear.

498
00:53:27,240 --> 00:53:30,240
Good. My wife's going to be chuffed at this.

499
00:53:30,240 --> 00:53:36,240
I think they said, at least on the article, they said that the downfall was that they were good, that it did last.

500
00:53:36,240 --> 00:53:40,240
And so, you know, as we all know, we've all got those cupboards full of Tupperware or a version of.

501
00:53:40,240 --> 00:53:47,240
So they kind of, you know, they outdid themselves by creating something that actually worked and lasted a long time.

502
00:53:47,240 --> 00:53:52,240
So when you're a sniper, you work as a pair. There's no such thing as a lone wolf.

503
00:53:52,240 --> 00:54:00,240
So in a section, you'll have 16 guys and then you'll pair off and then you'll have a one and two.

504
00:54:00,240 --> 00:54:03,240
Now, number one is probably the better shot.

505
00:54:03,240 --> 00:54:10,240
Number two is better at doing the calculations, your wind, your altitude, your biometric pressure and stuff like that.

506
00:54:10,240 --> 00:54:20,240
But my number two, we were exactly the same and we went through section commanders together.

507
00:54:20,240 --> 00:54:24,240
We did everything together and we've done a few tours together as well.

508
00:54:24,240 --> 00:54:36,240
I'm not going to say his name, but he you become quite close, as in, you know, when you don't move for days on end,

509
00:54:36,240 --> 00:54:44,240
you know, you need to rely on him to feed you to get your stuff out of your bag, to get you some biscuits or something, you know,

510
00:54:44,240 --> 00:54:50,240
because you're in a ghillie suit and your camouflage and concealment needs to be 100 percent.

511
00:54:50,240 --> 00:54:53,240
So minimal movement and slow as you like.

512
00:54:53,240 --> 00:54:58,240
So if two of you are moving, it's it's not going to work.

513
00:54:58,240 --> 00:55:02,240
So and then I used to.

514
00:55:02,240 --> 00:55:09,240
For the spot in scope, it used to have the same grackle as my sniper scope.

515
00:55:09,240 --> 00:55:16,240
But we used to have the same. We used to have two rifles out because maximum fire about the end of the day.

516
00:55:16,240 --> 00:55:26,240
And. Yeah, when you need to go for a crap, he will hold the Tupperware tub and you roll over and you go for a poo

517
00:55:26,240 --> 00:55:35,240
and then you roll back, he'll close it and stick it in your bag because at the end of day, ground sign is one of your biggest killers.

518
00:55:35,240 --> 00:55:44,240
And if you leave crap around, there is people that specialize in tracking and they can see if you're hydrated,

519
00:55:44,240 --> 00:55:51,240
what you've been eating, how your morale is, you know, if you're not thirsty, your belly's full.

520
00:55:51,240 --> 00:55:55,240
You're going to be a highly trained alert soldier.

521
00:55:55,240 --> 00:56:01,240
But if you're dehydrated, you haven't much your crap looks like crap.

522
00:56:01,240 --> 00:56:07,240
You can see that you're suffering. It's got blood in it or whatever, you know, because you're suffering.

523
00:56:07,240 --> 00:56:09,240
Your morale is going to be low.

524
00:56:09,240 --> 00:56:15,240
You're going to be easy to track because your skills are going to perish, you know, go down.

525
00:56:15,240 --> 00:56:17,240
So you've got to be pretty close.

526
00:56:17,240 --> 00:56:24,240
But the top. Top tip is when the exercise is finished or your tour is finished,

527
00:56:24,240 --> 00:56:33,240
remember to take the poo out of your bag. All right. Don't leave it in there. Or forget.

528
00:56:33,240 --> 00:56:36,240
The brotherhood bond as well. Talk to me about how your bum gets clean,

529
00:56:36,240 --> 00:56:41,240
because I don't think people realize the sacrifices that our military members make for their country.

530
00:56:41,240 --> 00:56:42,240
Who is wiping your ass?

531
00:56:42,240 --> 00:56:48,240
Yeah, he'll wipe your bum for you. Yeah, he'll wipe your bum for you. Yeah.

532
00:56:48,240 --> 00:56:52,240
It's not the bestest wipe, but it keeps you clean.

533
00:56:52,240 --> 00:57:00,240
So, yeah, you just work as a pair. You work close as a unit, you know, and.

534
00:57:00,240 --> 00:57:07,240
That that's snipe for you, you know, snipe in is a it's an art.

535
00:57:07,240 --> 00:57:10,240
It's a skill and.

536
00:57:10,240 --> 00:57:16,240
The shooting, you know, James, I could take you on a range for two days and I could teach you long range shooting

537
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:22,240
and you'd be pinging the target down from a thousand yards to fifteen hundred yards. Not a problem.

538
00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:26,240
It's the camouflage to concealment is getting into a location.

539
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:31,240
It's changing your camouflage when you go to urban to war.

540
00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:44,240
You know, it's changing your camouflage after 24 hours because the photosynthesis of the greenery around you will start deteriorating.

541
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:54,240
So you will stand out. It's not having your vegetation sticking downwards, the roots sticking upwards because a root is white.

542
00:57:54,240 --> 00:58:00,240
That would give you away. You know, there's so much involved of being a sniper.

543
00:58:00,240 --> 00:58:04,240
You know, your observation needs to be on par.

544
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:09,240
You know, you need to have a 360 awareness around you because you're so far forward.

545
00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:12,240
The enemy could be behind you, you know.

546
00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:22,240
So before you get into we call it an FFP final fire position before you get into that final fire position, you need to have drop back points.

547
00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:28,240
So if you do get bugged out, you know where you're going all the time, you know, going back all the time.

548
00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:34,240
And it is so important, you know, and you become you become focused on it.

549
00:58:34,240 --> 00:58:40,240
You know, I think it just overtook me, overtook me.

550
00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:44,240
You know, it was always sniper in first, marriage second.

551
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:49,240
That's what it came to, you know, because I was just obsessed with it.

552
00:58:49,240 --> 00:59:03,240
Talk to me about the the infamous shot then in 2009, kind of the build up to it and then how you even discovered that you'd done something even more remarkable than take out the people that were killing your men.

553
00:59:03,240 --> 00:59:19,240
So we had a mixture of Afghan army and British troops and the British troops were teaching the Afghan army how to build patrols, how to do contract drills and stuff like that.

554
00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:24,240
And we called them the omelette because British troops mixed in with Afghan.

555
00:59:24,240 --> 00:59:35,240
So we called them the omelettes and the Afghan army felt comfortable in having support on high ground before they went into any village.

556
00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:44,240
So it was our role to be on the high ground to give them support going into the village.

557
00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:55,240
And as I got off the wagon and onto the wall, because everyone thinks I was laid down when I took my shot, I wasn't. I stood up and I was laying against the wall.

558
00:59:55,240 --> 01:00:02,240
I could see all the Taliban queuing up and attack for the patrol going in.

559
01:00:02,240 --> 01:00:15,240
So the patrol was going in and they were going into a kill box and basic kill boxes where there's no cover, there's no escape or anything. And you cause the max devastation in this kill box.

560
01:00:15,240 --> 01:00:23,240
And I had an interpreter with me and he had a radio and the radio was tuned into their radio.

561
01:00:23,240 --> 01:00:39,240
We call it ICOM, ICOM chatter and the interpreter. You need a good interpreter that you can trust, you know, and he needs to be loyal to you to tell you the right stuff that the Taliban are telling the rest of the other Taliban.

562
01:00:39,240 --> 01:00:46,240
And you could hear him chatting away and I was telling him what they say and what they say and he was telling me.

563
01:00:46,240 --> 01:01:00,240
And then in the distance, I saw a glint and I thought, the fuck's that? So I looked through my scope and I saw a guy on a radio and he was on top of a compound wall.

564
01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:11,240
So I thought he's a scout or a dicker. And I thought what I'm going to do is just take a shot to not kill him, but to get his head down.

565
01:01:11,240 --> 01:01:23,240
Because I lasered it with my binos, laser binoculars, and I just had four lines come up. And so I was out of the range of my laser binos.

566
01:01:23,240 --> 01:01:31,240
So I thought, fuck it, I'll just fire. So I fired my first shot. And as I fired it, it went down and I could see the splash.

567
01:01:31,240 --> 01:01:42,240
And what I was doing, I was doing a thing called bracketing. So my first shot there, lifted my rifle up, lifted it again, lifted it again, lifted it again until I was shooting and I was lobbing the round in.

568
01:01:42,240 --> 01:01:51,240
And it took me about nine shots to get there and I hit the compound wall. And then the icon chatter went quiet.

569
01:01:51,240 --> 01:01:59,240
And then I heard one voice and I said to the interpreter, what is he saying? He says, I can't help you, I'm getting shot at from somewhere.

570
01:01:59,240 --> 01:02:06,240
And so he says, I can't help you anymore. So now the Taliban in this village are blind.

571
01:02:06,240 --> 01:02:14,240
But the patrol goes in and they open up and there's a mass firefight. I'm doing my job as a sniper.

572
01:02:14,240 --> 01:02:27,240
And I made the decision to get the vehicles that I had with the lads in to act as a buffer between the patrol and the insurgents.

573
01:02:27,240 --> 01:02:33,240
Because we had heavy guns, we had 50 cows, we had 40 mil cannons and small on Jim P.

574
01:02:33,240 --> 01:02:45,240
So I made the decision to go down there and get my lads down there and act as a buffer so the patrol can get all their wounded out and also their dead out as well.

575
01:02:45,240 --> 01:02:50,240
So my vehicles went down there and I stayed on the high ground.

576
01:02:50,240 --> 01:02:57,240
Now as a sniper by wall, you take three shots max to one shot minimum.

577
01:02:57,240 --> 01:03:05,240
And then you get out of dodge because they know where you are, you know, and I didn't have a suppressor on my rifle.

578
01:03:05,240 --> 01:03:15,240
I didn't have one on the tool because usually when you fire with a suppressor on, you have to put four extra clicks on your elevation.

579
01:03:15,240 --> 01:03:20,240
And because of the distance I was shooting, I didn't have any four clicks left. So I'll be hitting low all the time.

580
01:03:20,240 --> 01:03:25,240
So I took this suppressor off.

581
01:03:25,240 --> 01:03:32,240
And then my spotter, who was not my, he's just my driver, he said there's somebody over there.

582
01:03:32,240 --> 01:03:35,240
So I looked over there and I thought there's a bloke over there.

583
01:03:35,240 --> 01:03:45,240
Now, when we were training to go to Afghan, we always got talked to be 10 minutes ahead of the Taliban because it takes 20 minutes for them to flank you.

584
01:03:45,240 --> 01:03:53,240
If you're 20 minutes into a firefight, you can guarantee the Taliban are trying to back onto you and flank you from the rear.

585
01:03:53,240 --> 01:04:04,240
So I took the target out. He was 600 something yards away. I took him out and I realized that he wasn't a marker for the Taliban to go around.

586
01:04:04,240 --> 01:04:15,240
He had knocked the irrigation pump off and he had flooded this field.

587
01:04:15,240 --> 01:04:23,240
And if anyone's been to Afghan, it's like clay hole or sand. And when it's wet, it's like quicksand.

588
01:04:23,240 --> 01:04:29,240
And all my vehicles are now wheel spinning in this mud trying to get out.

589
01:04:29,240 --> 01:04:34,240
And the load of the battle went really quiet.

590
01:04:34,240 --> 01:04:40,240
And then all I heard was ratatatat ratatatat ratatatat and I thought where the fuck's that coming from?

591
01:04:40,240 --> 01:04:49,240
So I was checking everywhere that were engaged the Taliban. I was looking and I thought that's not them. That's not them. That's not them.

592
01:04:49,240 --> 01:04:54,240
The only place I didn't check is where I shot for the Dicca earlier on that morning.

593
01:04:54,240 --> 01:05:00,240
And I looked up and there were two guys laying down in machine gun and they were rattling away.

594
01:05:00,240 --> 01:05:07,240
And it was a PKM machine gun, which is a Russian either belt fed or drum fed machine gun.

595
01:05:07,240 --> 01:05:15,240
I think it fires like 700 rounds per minute. So it's pretty effective weapon system.

596
01:05:15,240 --> 01:05:24,240
And so I said, fucking hell, my ladle taking cover and you can see all the rounds hitting the water.

597
01:05:24,240 --> 01:05:29,240
Now I'm taking incoming as well. So it's pinging off the walls and stuff.

598
01:05:29,240 --> 01:05:38,240
So I laid on the laid on this wall and leaning against this wall. Sorry. And I fired my first shot.

599
01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:46,240
Now I knew I was pointing my point of aim because I shot there in the morning and hit the compound wall.

600
01:05:46,240 --> 01:05:56,240
So locked it loaded again, fired my second shot. And as I fired my second shot, he stood up, the guy feeding the machine gun.

601
01:05:56,240 --> 01:06:01,240
And it hits him in the chest. And he went backwards.

602
01:06:01,240 --> 01:06:11,240
And then as I fired my third shot, I waited because it was a second time of flight.

603
01:06:11,240 --> 01:06:19,240
So as I fired my third shot, I counted to three and I fired my fourth shot.

604
01:06:19,240 --> 01:06:26,240
So now I've got two bullets, three seconds apart in the same airspace.

605
01:06:26,240 --> 01:06:32,240
Third one missed, fourth one hit him and he fell backwards and I hit him in the side.

606
01:06:32,240 --> 01:06:41,240
The only reason I knew where I hit him is because we're meant to get the weapon system to stop it going back into enemy hands.

607
01:06:41,240 --> 01:06:47,240
And when we approached the bodies, I could see why I've hit him.

608
01:06:47,240 --> 01:06:56,240
And an Apache helicopter came down and he lasered it. And as he came down, I pointed to where the engagement was happening.

609
01:06:56,240 --> 01:07:09,240
And because usually when you're in a we call it a tick, troops in contact, when you're in a tick more than, you know, a couple of minutes, you usually get air on station.

610
01:07:09,240 --> 01:07:14,240
But we didn't get anything for a long time when we were just fighting.

611
01:07:14,240 --> 01:07:23,240
And yeah, the Apache lasered it and he lasered it at two thousand four hundred and seventy five yards away.

612
01:07:23,240 --> 01:07:27,240
And I thought, yeah, brilliant job done. That's it.

613
01:07:27,240 --> 01:07:36,240
Done the tour, got blown up, got bullet in the helmet, did loads of more sniper stuff, came home,

614
01:07:36,240 --> 01:07:45,240
went to a medals parade and. Well, I got my Afghan medal.

615
01:07:45,240 --> 01:07:52,240
My wife was there. My wife's family came down. Sue and Paul. Absolutely fantastic.

616
01:07:52,240 --> 01:08:02,240
And then there was a freelance journalist there and he was just writing stories about what happened in Afghan.

617
01:08:02,240 --> 01:08:11,240
And then the captain that was shown him around, he said, Sergeant Harrison, you know, call us out and take telling some of your stories.

618
01:08:11,240 --> 01:08:16,240
And I said, well, it's get censored. My name and all that. And he said, yeah, it will do.

619
01:08:16,240 --> 01:08:21,240
So I got some of my lads together and he was talking to the reporter.

620
01:08:21,240 --> 01:08:27,240
And then I said again to the captain, I said, will it get censored? He said, yeah, all get censored.

621
01:08:27,240 --> 01:08:34,240
I thought, brilliant lads carry on talking. And then on the Sunday,

622
01:08:34,240 --> 01:08:39,240
my phone was going off the hook and people saying, get the paper, get the paper.

623
01:08:39,240 --> 01:08:48,240
So I got the newspaper in the morning and it was nothing about my lads at all.

624
01:08:48,240 --> 01:08:54,240
It was all about me breaking the world record, which I didn't even know about until I read it in the paper.

625
01:08:54,240 --> 01:09:00,240
And it just went fucking viral. And then my wife said to me, I've got a bad feeling about this.

626
01:09:00,240 --> 01:09:07,240
And everyone was like telling her, you know, don't be silly, let him enjoy the stardom and whatever.

627
01:09:07,240 --> 01:09:10,240
And she's always right. She's got a gut feeling.

628
01:09:10,240 --> 01:09:16,240
And she was right because the following day we started getting death threats.

629
01:09:16,240 --> 01:09:25,240
And then from fundamentalists like IE doing in England, telling they want to cut my head off for the stuff I've done in Afghanistan.

630
01:09:25,240 --> 01:09:29,240
And, yeah, just got out of control, got out of control.

631
01:09:29,240 --> 01:09:36,240
So me, my daughters and Tanya, we went into hiding for three years.

632
01:09:36,240 --> 01:09:41,240
My goodness. What was the reason that your name was revealed?

633
01:09:41,240 --> 01:09:50,240
Because when a story, anything military wise, has to go to a place in London, it's called London District Media Ops.

634
01:09:50,240 --> 01:09:56,240
And basically they redact all the names and they take everything away.

635
01:09:56,240 --> 01:10:02,240
So your name is not on anything. But for some reason, it just went straight to print.

636
01:10:02,240 --> 01:10:08,240
So my name was there, my dog's name, my wife's name, my daughter's name, where I lived, where I was born.

637
01:10:08,240 --> 01:10:11,240
Everything was on this.

638
01:10:11,240 --> 01:10:20,240
So we had to move out of our home and go into camp because we were just getting death threats.

639
01:10:20,240 --> 01:10:27,240
So this circles around to what we were talking about earlier with the responsibility of the media to actually just tell the news.

640
01:10:27,240 --> 01:10:33,240
And in a situation like this, your name doesn't need to be a British soldier, has this remarkable kill, saves.

641
01:10:33,240 --> 01:10:39,240
Obviously, with the help of his men that were fighting as well, the Afghans and the British, it's a great story.

642
01:10:39,240 --> 01:10:47,240
But I bet you the focus was ultimately, well, I'm more concerned about selling my newspaper than I am protecting this family's identity.

643
01:10:47,240 --> 01:10:49,240
And I think this needs to be revealed.

644
01:10:49,240 --> 01:11:00,240
I mean, the impact on your family from that one moment of selfishness by yet another self-serving news agency, for lack of a better word.

645
01:11:00,240 --> 01:11:03,240
And if it's like the sun in the mirror, I don't think you could even use that word.

646
01:11:03,240 --> 01:11:12,240
But this is what happens over and over and over again, the sensationalization versus the truth and just the ethics behind what journalism is supposed to be about.

647
01:11:12,240 --> 01:11:20,240
Yeah, it is what destroyed us, destroyed our.

648
01:11:20,240 --> 01:11:30,240
But I was just so I'm very fortunate to have Tanya in my life because she's a strong woman more than she thinks she is.

649
01:11:30,240 --> 01:11:36,240
And she she was my strength for all of this, you know, because it could have broke me, you know.

650
01:11:36,240 --> 01:11:42,240
And what pissed me off the most is that I didn't have any support off of my regiment at all.

651
01:11:42,240 --> 01:11:52,240
No support, no, no sort of like protection or anything. It was it was more from the police force.

652
01:11:52,240 --> 01:11:57,240
I was more concerned about me than anything else.

653
01:11:57,240 --> 01:12:01,240
But, yeah, the army didn't give a fuck.

654
01:12:01,240 --> 01:12:08,240
Well, I want to get to that because you are by far not the first person I've ever had that's given everything for an organization.

655
01:12:08,240 --> 01:12:14,240
They turned their back on them when they needed them. But before we do, you glanced over getting shot in the head and blown up.

656
01:12:14,240 --> 01:12:25,240
So let's just go back to that for a moment. Talk to me about those those elements, because as we know, TBI's themselves are a contributing factor to mental health challenges as well.

657
01:12:25,240 --> 01:12:32,240
And that's what I've got. I've got to diagnose with a TBI, you know, when I got blown up.

658
01:12:32,240 --> 01:12:42,240
So basically I was in another operation and this operation was to to build a PB, an operational base.

659
01:12:42,240 --> 01:12:46,240
And it was my job to keep the left flank free from the Taliban.

660
01:12:46,240 --> 01:12:52,240
And we were just constantly getting probed all the time, constantly in the firefight.

661
01:12:52,240 --> 01:12:56,240
And one of the firefights, it was a lull in the battle.

662
01:12:56,240 --> 01:13:04,240
And I moved my vehicle up to this ridge line where I could see downwards because it was blinded to me.

663
01:13:04,240 --> 01:13:10,240
And there were three Taliban down there and they caught them by surprise and they opened up.

664
01:13:10,240 --> 01:13:14,240
But from the right side, we got opened up again from the right side.

665
01:13:14,240 --> 01:13:21,240
And I got hit in my chest by in my body armor.

666
01:13:21,240 --> 01:13:29,240
And I had a man bag on where I keep all my ammunition and it got straight shot through the strap of the man bag.

667
01:13:29,240 --> 01:13:35,240
And then I got shot in the helmet and knocked me out for about 20 seconds.

668
01:13:35,240 --> 01:13:42,240
So I always tell people there's three three stages to a flight of a bullet.

669
01:13:42,240 --> 01:13:46,240
So when you hear it come out the gun, it's going supersonic.

670
01:13:46,240 --> 01:13:55,240
Yeah. So when it then it slows down to a thing called transonic weight wobbles and then it goes subsonic when it slows down even more.

671
01:13:55,240 --> 01:13:59,240
So that transsonics force it to slow down to go subsonic.

672
01:13:59,240 --> 01:14:02,240
And this round hit me going supersonic.

673
01:14:02,240 --> 01:14:10,240
So he hit my helmet, went right round the top and it came out the top of my helmet and it knocked me clean out for about 20 seconds.

674
01:14:10,240 --> 01:14:14,240
And the vehicle I was in was an open top vehicle.

675
01:14:14,240 --> 01:14:20,240
It was a jackal. And as I fell out the pop the doors of pop studded.

676
01:14:20,240 --> 01:14:23,240
So you can just pop them open and shut them again. I fell out.

677
01:14:23,240 --> 01:14:31,240
My driver grabbed me. He pulled his arm out of his socket because all the kit that I've got on weighs a lot.

678
01:14:31,240 --> 01:14:41,240
He pulled me back in and then I came around and I can't remember anything.

679
01:14:41,240 --> 01:14:47,240
And my driver said to me that I stayed on the hill.

680
01:14:47,240 --> 01:14:53,240
I extracted everyone off the hill because we had another three vehicles there.

681
01:14:53,240 --> 01:14:57,240
I made them go into dead ground. I stayed on top of the hill.

682
01:14:57,240 --> 01:15:02,240
I fired my machine gun, my Jim P. GPM machine gun.

683
01:15:02,240 --> 01:15:06,240
The ammo box got hit so it squashed it. So the belt got snapped.

684
01:15:06,240 --> 01:15:14,240
So I grabbed my SA80. I started putting rounds down my SA80 because I was so delirious.

685
01:15:14,240 --> 01:15:18,240
I changed my mag. But as I changed it, I dropped the mag.

686
01:15:18,240 --> 01:15:25,240
So I just got my pistol out, started shooting my pistol and then I told my driver to reverse.

687
01:15:25,240 --> 01:15:33,240
So he reversed, but he reversed and we popped smoke and they're designed to go like a dome shape.

688
01:15:33,240 --> 01:15:39,240
We popped the smoke and then we extracted down into dead ground.

689
01:15:39,240 --> 01:15:45,240
And then from there I went into a field ambulance because we were so far forward.

690
01:15:45,240 --> 01:15:51,240
And I was being sick and I was a bit out of migraine, headache and everything.

691
01:15:51,240 --> 01:15:59,240
But the third thing is, James, is I had an old helmet on, Mark 6 Alpha helmet,

692
01:15:59,240 --> 01:16:03,240
because I've got a big head that didn't have my size in the store.

693
01:16:03,240 --> 01:16:06,240
The new helmet's coming out for Afghan.

694
01:16:06,240 --> 01:16:09,240
And so they said you're going to have to go on tour with your old helmet.

695
01:16:09,240 --> 01:16:12,240
And I said, yeah, no worries. So I went on tour.

696
01:16:12,240 --> 01:16:19,240
Now that the old helmet sits lower on the ear, but the new helmet sits an inch higher on the ear.

697
01:16:19,240 --> 01:16:23,240
So if I had the new helmet on, I wouldn't be speaking to you now.

698
01:16:23,240 --> 01:16:26,240
I probably would, but through a computer or something.

699
01:16:26,240 --> 01:16:29,240
I wouldn't be here now.

700
01:16:29,240 --> 01:16:38,240
And then in the morning I sort of lied to the medical officer because he said,

701
01:16:38,240 --> 01:16:43,240
how do you feel? And I felt shit and concussed.

702
01:16:43,240 --> 01:16:49,240
And I went to go and join my lads and we carried on the operation that was going on.

703
01:16:49,240 --> 01:16:52,240
Got back into the fight, as they say.

704
01:16:52,240 --> 01:17:00,240
And then three days after that, we was on another op,

705
01:17:00,240 --> 01:17:04,240
giving over watch for the raw Yorks going into the green zone.

706
01:17:04,240 --> 01:17:08,240
And the green zone's like a straight green bit of land.

707
01:17:08,240 --> 01:17:12,240
It's all desert and you have a random bit of straight greenness.

708
01:17:12,240 --> 01:17:17,240
And it goes on for miles and they were clearing it full of Taliban.

709
01:17:17,240 --> 01:17:26,240
And I was doing my snipering and at the end of that op, we were going back and my phone call sign stopped.

710
01:17:26,240 --> 01:17:32,240
And I ran forward on my feet because as a sergeant, you're not meant to lead.

711
01:17:32,240 --> 01:17:34,240
Your junior call sign leads.

712
01:17:34,240 --> 01:17:40,240
It gives them experience, do you know what I mean, for when they become a sergeant themselves.

713
01:17:40,240 --> 01:17:46,240
So I ran forward and he turned around to me and he said, I've got a bad feeling about this, Craig.

714
01:17:46,240 --> 01:17:50,240
And he said, OK. He said, I've got wife and kids at home.

715
01:17:50,240 --> 01:17:54,240
I went, right. I said, no worries. I'll lead.

716
01:17:54,240 --> 01:18:00,240
So I got in the vehicle. We overtook all the rest of my vehicles and we got to the front.

717
01:18:00,240 --> 01:18:03,240
And I stopped to get my head in the game.

718
01:18:03,240 --> 01:18:07,240
And I said, I don't want to go for the village because there's too many vulnerable points.

719
01:18:07,240 --> 01:18:14,240
Let's go around the edge. So I skirted around the edge and I hit a 30 kilo anti-tank mine.

720
01:18:14,240 --> 01:18:18,240
Hit the right side of my vehicle.

721
01:18:18,240 --> 01:18:23,240
So I've had a bullet to the helmet on the right side and then the vehicle's blown up.

722
01:18:23,240 --> 01:18:28,240
So I've got another shockwave to my brain as well.

723
01:18:28,240 --> 01:18:30,240
My driver nearly lost both his legs.

724
01:18:30,240 --> 01:18:35,240
The steering wheel kept him in, so he catapulted out, catapulted back in again.

725
01:18:35,240 --> 01:18:37,240
And his legs were like all broken.

726
01:18:37,240 --> 01:18:42,240
He broke all the bones in his legs and his ankles and everything. It was horrendous.

727
01:18:42,240 --> 01:18:45,240
And then we got Kassivak out.

728
01:18:45,240 --> 01:18:50,240
And I remember just waking up in Bastion in the hospital.

729
01:18:50,240 --> 01:18:59,240
And then we got Kassivak to Kandahar and then airlifted to Birmingham, Salirk Hospital,

730
01:18:59,240 --> 01:19:02,240
where they deal with the veterans there in Birmingham.

731
01:19:02,240 --> 01:19:07,240
And then I broke both my arms, my thumbs.

732
01:19:07,240 --> 01:19:12,240
I broke everything in my arms, my radius scaphoid thumbs.

733
01:19:12,240 --> 01:19:16,240
I was full of cuts everywhere. My finger.

734
01:19:16,240 --> 01:19:24,240
After a while. And then I was in plaster for six weeks.

735
01:19:24,240 --> 01:19:29,240
I come out of plaster. They made me do 10 press ups and send me back out.

736
01:19:29,240 --> 01:19:34,240
Oh my God. That was your ready for duty test that they gave you?

737
01:19:34,240 --> 01:19:36,240
Yeah.

738
01:19:36,240 --> 01:19:40,240
Well firstly. To see if my arms are strong enough.

739
01:19:40,240 --> 01:19:43,240
You just showed me your hands and I don't know if we're mirror image or anything.

740
01:19:43,240 --> 01:19:46,240
Is that your ring finger that was blown off?

741
01:19:46,240 --> 01:19:49,240
Yeah. How does your wife feel about that?

742
01:19:49,240 --> 01:19:51,240
Oh, I've got a name on it. Tanya.

743
01:19:51,240 --> 01:19:54,240
There we go. It's got a tattoo.

744
01:19:54,240 --> 01:19:56,240
Yeah, she's good.

745
01:19:56,240 --> 01:20:02,240
So we've accumulated so many elements up to this point from your father leaving when you were young.

746
01:20:02,240 --> 01:20:08,240
And there's a lot of people that have come on here. When we reflect back now, that in itself can take an impact.

747
01:20:08,240 --> 01:20:13,240
Like why wasn't I good enough for my mom, my dad to stay to stop drinking, whatever the thing was.

748
01:20:13,240 --> 01:20:17,240
Then you progress through and you've got obviously the losses that you've seen.

749
01:20:17,240 --> 01:20:20,240
Now you've got these concussions.

750
01:20:20,240 --> 01:20:24,240
And then you've got this story coming about the longest shot.

751
01:20:24,240 --> 01:20:29,240
And now your own unit isn't supporting you. So you've got an element of organizational betrayal.

752
01:20:29,240 --> 01:20:36,240
Talk to me about when you started seeing mental health challenges within yourself.

753
01:20:36,240 --> 01:20:38,240
And then what was that transition like for you?

754
01:20:38,240 --> 01:20:44,240
Because that that on its own can be so crushing for someone who's had purpose, have been part of a tribe.

755
01:20:44,240 --> 01:20:49,240
That was our identity. But you've got all these other elements compounded as well.

756
01:20:49,240 --> 01:20:57,240
I didn't realize I had PTSD. I didn't realize at all.

757
01:20:57,240 --> 01:21:02,240
My dog Steve. I didn't realize I had PTSD.

758
01:21:02,240 --> 01:21:10,240
Tanya noticed first. She noticed a change in me when I came back from Afghan.

759
01:21:10,240 --> 01:21:16,240
I think she noticed a change in me when I got blown up, really.

760
01:21:16,240 --> 01:21:22,240
And she noticed that I lost my drive and everything.

761
01:21:22,240 --> 01:21:30,240
You know, libido. I was on my own all the time. I slayed myself, my anger.

762
01:21:30,240 --> 01:21:36,240
I was crying for no reason at all. But I just thought not to get on with it. I'm just getting on with it.

763
01:21:36,240 --> 01:21:42,240
I just thought it was normal, you know, because I've never experienced this.

764
01:21:42,240 --> 01:21:49,240
Or you don't get told it when you go on tour. You know, these are the symptoms of PTSD.

765
01:21:49,240 --> 01:21:56,240
If you start suffering from these symptoms, get help. You know, you don't get told that when you go on tour.

766
01:21:56,240 --> 01:22:02,240
It's do the fucking tour, go home, do a medals parade, go and leave. And that's it.

767
01:22:02,240 --> 01:22:10,240
Start off again next morning or the next couple of weeks, go back to camp, start cleaning vehicles, get ready for the next tour.

768
01:22:10,240 --> 01:22:20,240
And but when we were going on exercise, I was still in Afghan.

769
01:22:20,240 --> 01:22:31,240
So other regiments that were playing the enemy or different squadrons that were playing the enemy, I was taking it a little bit too far.

770
01:22:31,240 --> 01:22:41,240
You know, as in when I caught them cable tying and blindfolding them, kicking them, fucking just losing my fucking anger with them

771
01:22:41,240 --> 01:22:46,240
because I was back in fucking Afghan. And this is when the army noticed.

772
01:22:46,240 --> 01:22:53,240
And Tanya didn't really tell me because she knew how dedicated I was to the forces.

773
01:22:53,240 --> 01:23:00,240
She didn't really want to say, I think there's a fucking problem. But she said she definitely noticed the change of me.

774
01:23:00,240 --> 01:23:06,240
And then I got a call to the medical officers, the MO's office.

775
01:23:06,240 --> 01:23:20,240
And he said to me, he goes, you need to go to DMH in mental health department in Old Shot and we just want you to get assessed.

776
01:23:20,240 --> 01:23:29,240
That's it. So I went there, got assessed for CPTSD, chronic PTSD or combat PTSD.

777
01:23:29,240 --> 01:23:38,240
And as I left a couple of days later, he called me and he said, you're done. You're done.

778
01:23:38,240 --> 01:23:44,240
I went, OK. He said, these are your issues, these are your problems.

779
01:23:44,240 --> 01:23:49,240
And I was getting migraines all the time and I couldn't work it out while I was getting migraines all the time.

780
01:23:49,240 --> 01:23:59,240
Still now I get migraines. And I had a brain scan and it turned out that I had a TBI as well.

781
01:23:59,240 --> 01:24:09,240
My brain was pretty rattled. And I went to a place called Headley Court where all the wounded soldiers go.

782
01:24:09,240 --> 01:24:20,240
And I sort of like did a two week intense TBI course there, how to cope with my brain injury and stuff, which is good.

783
01:24:20,240 --> 01:24:27,240
But I had no support for the regiment. Once I left that gate, because I said to the MO's, what happens now?

784
01:24:27,240 --> 01:24:33,240
And he said, you'll go home and we'll be in contact with you to sort things out.

785
01:24:33,240 --> 01:24:43,240
Went home, didn't hear nothing of them, left a rot. And you think I'm at home.

786
01:24:43,240 --> 01:24:51,240
I've got PTSD, I've got panic attacks, I've got depression, I've got a TBI and I'm left like a boiling kettle.

787
01:24:51,240 --> 01:25:00,240
And I'm fucking just winding myself up. You know, I'm snappy at Tanya. I'm fucking I just want to be on my fucking own.

788
01:25:00,240 --> 01:25:07,240
You know, I'm jogging still, but I seem to have hip problems and I'm thinking, what the fuck's wrong with me?

789
01:25:07,240 --> 01:25:14,240
And turns out both my hips are false now. I've had two hip replacements due to the explosion.

790
01:25:14,240 --> 01:25:23,240
And yeah, Tanya stood by me for all the shit that I gave her.

791
01:25:23,240 --> 01:25:35,240
She stood by me, you know, because I know Sony marriages with people with mental health issues or PTSD, especially veterans, their marriages do not last.

792
01:25:35,240 --> 01:25:46,240
You know, and especially veterans coming out the army who haven't got issues, their marriages never usually last because you're with that person 24 seven.

793
01:25:46,240 --> 01:25:54,240
You know, it takes a special person to be and luckily I found one with Tanya, you know, and she supported me and my dog supported me.

794
01:25:54,240 --> 01:26:01,240
And now, you know, Betsy passed away and I've got Steve now just ones around.

795
01:26:01,240 --> 01:26:06,240
Firstly, I mean, again, this this this illustrates what we did wrong.

796
01:26:06,240 --> 01:26:09,240
And I hope that in 2024, the British Army is doing things differently now.

797
01:26:09,240 --> 01:26:20,240
But this is what you see in the fire service, especially here in America. You know, we will serve for I serve for 14, but a lot of the full career is 20 or 25 ish.

798
01:26:20,240 --> 01:26:25,240
And then one day the door just closes behind you. There's no health care.

799
01:26:25,240 --> 01:26:28,240
You know, you might have a pension if you're lucky, but that's it.

800
01:26:28,240 --> 01:26:30,240
You know, and a lot of these retirees have forgotten.

801
01:26:30,240 --> 01:26:36,240
And what's so sad is if you look at the statistics in the fire service, they're already fucking horrendous.

802
01:26:36,240 --> 01:26:43,240
But that's not taking into account everyone that retired because the moment you walked out the fire station, you cease to be a statistic.

803
01:26:43,240 --> 01:26:50,240
And that is when you're going to see the worst, you know, mental health problems and the cancers and the heart disease and all the things that come along with it.

804
01:26:50,240 --> 01:26:59,240
And to have someone who's who served for so long, who literally, you know, was willing to die for your tribe, your organization.

805
01:26:59,240 --> 01:27:12,240
And then you turn your back on them. That, I think, is one of the big elephants in the room with the first responder and veteran health, the veteran suicide conversation is, yes, there's all these other factors.

806
01:27:12,240 --> 01:27:22,240
But that was our entire identity. You know, as as a ancient human civilization, if the tribe ostracized you, that meant death.

807
01:27:22,240 --> 01:27:27,240
You know, you were out wandering the plains on your own now and you're probably going to get eaten or die of starvation.

808
01:27:27,240 --> 01:27:32,240
And that's still in us now. So that is what's so horrendous.

809
01:27:32,240 --> 01:27:40,240
And I hope the Lottie's organization is starting to change now is if someone has served in your uniform for X amount of years, you have a duty to take care of them.

810
01:27:40,240 --> 01:27:49,240
I would argue the rest of their life. Yeah, I wouldn't say I would say the rest of their life.

811
01:27:49,240 --> 01:28:03,240
But I say for veterans, especially in the UK, I recommend she get monitored for two to three years after leaving the service to make sure they get interacted in the right way massively for life.

812
01:28:03,240 --> 01:28:17,240
That'd be a logistical nightmare. You know, I mean, but to monitor somebody for two years or three years would not be a logistical nightmare because obviously the world keeps changing all the time.

813
01:28:17,240 --> 01:28:25,240
So you're looking at you end up looking after zillions of veterans, but looking after two to three years is not an issue.

814
01:28:25,240 --> 01:28:32,240
And yeah, it would it would sort homelessness out. It would sort drug addiction out.

815
01:28:32,240 --> 01:28:37,240
It would stop alcoholism and homelessness and everything like that.

816
01:28:37,240 --> 01:28:52,240
You know, but has the army changed as it's fucked James, right, because I know this for a fact because I know people that are still serving and I know how shit people have got.

817
01:28:52,240 --> 01:28:56,240
It's got more PC more than anything.

818
01:28:56,240 --> 01:29:19,240
So it's gone the fucking wrong way with anything because they're more worried about their image more worried about what the regiment's going to look like more than that person's going to like, you know, so I, I know of suicides in the British Army.

819
01:29:19,240 --> 01:29:35,240
You haven't heard about it, have you James? It hasn't been told in the media, because it all gets fucking hushed. That's why, because of the pristines of these regiments they're trying to keep their recruiting up and recruiting has been the lowest since 2010.

820
01:29:35,240 --> 01:29:39,240
You know, and they can come on join the army, join the army.

821
01:29:39,240 --> 01:29:52,240
But there's no, I'll tell you one thing, I, when I joined, I was on a pension scheme. It was 2000, sorry, it was 1974 or five pension scheme.

822
01:29:52,240 --> 01:30:03,240
And when 2000 hit, they encouraged us to change over to the 2000 pension scheme, but none of us wanted to. We said no, we're not going to we're going to stay on the old one.

823
01:30:03,240 --> 01:30:09,240
So when you do your 22 years, and you're on the 74 75 pension scheme.

824
01:30:09,240 --> 01:30:13,240
What soon as you leave your pension starts straight away.

825
01:30:13,240 --> 01:30:23,240
Okay, and you get a thing called maturity. So you'll get a lump sum of money say thank you for your service. So your pension started, you don't have to work.

826
01:30:23,240 --> 01:30:33,240
So this new pension scheme in now. So when you join the armed forces now, your pension does not start your 65.

827
01:30:33,240 --> 01:30:44,240
So you do 22 years, and your pension will start to your 65, because they worked out that a veteran's lifespan is between 60 and 70.

828
01:30:44,240 --> 01:30:47,240
Same here, same here in America.

829
01:30:47,240 --> 01:31:07,240
Yeah, yeah, yeah, a lot of firefighters, we, you know, it's not even been studied because everything that should be studied there's no studies for like sleep deprivation shift work, you know, longevity in our profession, but we all have the same observation that we normally die within five years of retirement, not all of us, but you know, on average, a lot of them do.

830
01:31:07,240 --> 01:31:18,240
And so yeah, you've got them, you know, chasing this carrot on a stick and then you got this thing called drop where you work an extra few years and you get even more money. But then you fucking die. You know, what is the point?

831
01:31:18,240 --> 01:31:28,240
As funny when we go back to that taking care of them for life. The one philosophy that they have in America that I love the idea of it is the VA.

832
01:31:28,240 --> 01:31:40,240
They do take care of the veterans. My wife's almost become a optometrist and eye doctor, and she's in the VA right now working with veterans that are in there, you know, a lot of them are 70s, 80s.

833
01:31:40,240 --> 01:31:52,240
So they're still taking care of them. If you actually charge people that take care of our veterans for the rest of their life. Imagine what a resistance that would create to sending our young men and women to war in the first place.

834
01:31:52,240 --> 01:32:02,240
You know what I mean? Yeah. So I think it would be a kind of win-win. You know, you'd have to you'd only go to war when you absolutely have to because you know how expensive it is to take care of the people that you send.

835
01:32:02,240 --> 01:32:14,240
Yep. Yep. Massively. Massively. You know, it's a rabbit hole that there's no light at the end of the tunnel. You know, you could talk about it all the time.

836
01:32:14,240 --> 01:32:27,240
And do we learn from it? I don't know. The kit's got better and that's about it. You know, the kit's got much better.

837
01:32:27,240 --> 01:32:35,240
But so I haven't the kit, but you've got to worry about your brain at the end of the day. That's the damage product.

838
01:32:35,240 --> 01:32:44,240
You know, and I say to people, I say to my wife, I wish I lost an arm or leg. I really do. I wish I lost an arm or leg.

839
01:32:44,240 --> 01:32:54,240
So people can see me and go, that's why he's got mental health. You know, but they don't see that. They just see me, you know, and think that I'm okay.

840
01:32:54,240 --> 01:33:03,240
I'm not okay. I wear a mask and I let people think I'm okay. But inside I'm fucking broken. Absolutely fucking broken.

841
01:33:03,240 --> 01:33:09,240
What's the darkest place you found yourself?

842
01:33:09,240 --> 01:33:17,240
When I nearly shot myself. Yeah, I nearly, my dog saved my life. Tanya was away and I got a gun.

843
01:33:17,240 --> 01:33:30,240
And yeah, I was going to, I was practicing where to put it. And Betsy was in the back of the seat and she looked at me and I stared right at her.

844
01:33:30,240 --> 01:33:41,240
And I put the gun down and there's been other times as well. But that was the closest, you know. And yeah, Betsy saved my life, bless her.

845
01:33:41,240 --> 01:33:54,240
And me and Tanya has taught me to tell the truth, not even white lies or anything. Just tell the truth.

846
01:33:54,240 --> 01:34:04,240
And then you've got no skeletons in the closet for anyone to find out. And so I'm very open with her and I said, look, this is what happened.

847
01:34:04,240 --> 01:34:18,240
You know, I tried to shoot myself. She thanks that Betsy was there to stop me doing it because I felt there was no, I tell what it feels like.

848
01:34:18,240 --> 01:34:29,240
It feels like, someone tried to explain to me the other day and I thought, yeah, that's what it feels like. It feels like you got sandbags attached to your arms and legs and you're trying to run.

849
01:34:29,240 --> 01:34:38,240
And everyone's running past you and you're just running. You can't move. That's what it feels like. You're just stuck in this darkness.

850
01:34:38,240 --> 01:34:52,240
And there's no light at the end of the tunnel. And you become quite selfish in yourself because you don't care about anyone.

851
01:34:52,240 --> 01:34:59,240
People think it's a selfish way out. Is it? I don't know. Because it takes fucking balls.

852
01:34:59,240 --> 01:35:11,240
And you do become selfish in yourself because you don't think of others. I do. I suffer from suicide, adlation.

853
01:35:11,240 --> 01:35:18,240
I think about it all the fucking time, all the fucking time. But will I carry it out? No.

854
01:35:18,240 --> 01:35:26,240
Because I've got a good wife behind me to stop me doing that. And then somebody's got to find me.

855
01:35:26,240 --> 01:35:35,240
And once that person's found me, I've infected them with my misery. I've infected them with my PTSD. Now they've fucking got it.

856
01:35:35,240 --> 01:35:46,240
It's like a plague. You know, they've got it now. And they end up committing suicide.

857
01:35:46,240 --> 01:35:52,240
So it's a never-ending fucking ever decreasing circles in a pond. You know?

858
01:35:52,240 --> 01:36:00,240
But when life gets too much for you, you need to stop and talk. You know?

859
01:36:00,240 --> 01:36:05,240
And that's what I encourage people to do now. I say you need to talk. You need to talk.

860
01:36:05,240 --> 01:36:13,240
You don't have to talk about the issue that you're going through. Just talk to someone. Have a giggle. Have a laugh.

861
01:36:13,240 --> 01:36:16,240
You know? And that's what it's about. Opening up.

862
01:36:16,240 --> 01:36:24,240
And eventually, once you feel comfortable around that person you're talking to, you'll open up without you even realizing you're opening up.

863
01:36:24,240 --> 01:36:36,240
And you end up talking. And it's like I say to Tanya, I say to her, no one will understand somebody with PTSD unless you've gone through PTSD yourself.

864
01:36:36,240 --> 01:36:43,240
You can't. You can't learn it from a fucking book. You have to experience it yourself.

865
01:36:43,240 --> 01:36:49,240
You have to experience that darkness, them fucking low points, them suicidal thoughts.

866
01:36:49,240 --> 01:36:58,240
You have to experience them before you can go to somebody with tips how to control it, how I'm a survivor.

867
01:36:58,240 --> 01:37:03,240
And that's what I do. And that's what I do in my school. That's what I do.

868
01:37:03,240 --> 01:37:11,240
One of the things that really just came up over and over and over again, because I've interviewed over a thousand people now,

869
01:37:11,240 --> 01:37:18,240
and a lot of them are military first responders, medical professions where there's a lot of PTSD attached to it.

870
01:37:18,240 --> 01:37:23,240
But then there's also people that are supposed to be talking about strength and conditioning or nutrition.

871
01:37:23,240 --> 01:37:27,240
And we end up going down a mental health story because they've been impacted by it, too.

872
01:37:27,240 --> 01:37:36,240
But this was something that is never discussed, like never at the front of these mental health posters or commercials or whatever it is.

873
01:37:36,240 --> 01:37:41,240
When you and I were young, there would be the conversation that suicide was selfish and cowardly.

874
01:37:41,240 --> 01:37:47,240
And how could you think of your kids? And then you listen to people like you and hundreds of other people.

875
01:37:47,240 --> 01:37:51,240
And it's amazing how many dogs have saved lives, by the way, so many.

876
01:37:51,240 --> 01:37:59,240
But when the brain gets to a point of crisis through the multiple elements,

877
01:37:59,240 --> 01:38:11,240
the perfect storm of childhood trauma that was never addressed, sleep deprivation, TBIs, psych meds, alcohol, all the things, organizational betrayal.

878
01:38:11,240 --> 01:38:19,240
At that point, the brain is miswired. The brain is broken. And I use that term affectionately, not judgmentally.

879
01:38:19,240 --> 01:38:25,240
Physiologically, it's not working how it's supposed to. And people's reality becomes distorted.

880
01:38:25,240 --> 01:38:32,240
And a lot, a huge amount of people report to feeling like they are a burden to the people that they love.

881
01:38:32,240 --> 01:38:36,240
And if they just remove themselves, then their family would be happy.

882
01:38:36,240 --> 01:38:45,240
And that makes at that moment in that broken mind, that makes that suicide thought courageous and selfless.

883
01:38:45,240 --> 01:38:50,240
But the problem is, if you say, think about your family, you're actually kind of pushing them towards it.

884
01:38:50,240 --> 01:39:00,240
So the conversation, I think, needs to be if you believe that you are a burden, that is exactly a red flag when you need to pick up the phone and have those conversations.

885
01:39:00,240 --> 01:39:04,240
Was there any element of that thought process for you?

886
01:39:04,240 --> 01:39:13,240
Yeah, I've said to Tanya, I think Tanya was there, my daughter was there, and I've said, you're the selfish ones.

887
01:39:13,240 --> 01:39:17,240
You're the selfish ones for keeping me here.

888
01:39:17,240 --> 01:39:21,240
And Tanya turned around and goes, good, I'm glad I'm fucking selfish.

889
01:39:21,240 --> 01:39:26,240
You know what I mean? But what you said is spot on.

890
01:39:26,240 --> 01:39:32,240
You know, you become a burden. You become, you've got no purpose.

891
01:39:32,240 --> 01:39:37,240
You've, people are better off without you because you're so fucking miserable all the time.

892
01:39:37,240 --> 01:39:43,240
You drag people down. You know, you're just better off without me.

893
01:39:43,240 --> 01:39:50,240
And, you know, there's one way, one way that I can only think of.

894
01:39:50,240 --> 01:40:00,240
And yeah, it's hard to think of. But, you know, but you end up, once you've done it, you can't look down, can you?

895
01:40:00,240 --> 01:40:05,240
Say, fucking hell, look how devastated she is. Look how upset she is.

896
01:40:05,240 --> 01:40:10,240
Fucking hell. I said to my therapist, I always wonder who will come to my funeral.

897
01:40:10,240 --> 01:40:16,240
Who will come to my funeral? It's not like I can hover and go, fucking hell, I haven't seen him for years.

898
01:40:16,240 --> 01:40:20,240
I haven't seen him for years. You're dead. You're dead. You know?

899
01:40:20,240 --> 01:40:29,240
Yeah, it's hard. It's hard. It's hard if you haven't got that person you can rely on to get you out of that darkness.

900
01:40:29,240 --> 01:40:34,240
You know, and I'm lucky. I'm lucky I've got Tanya. I'm very, very, very lucky.

901
01:40:34,240 --> 01:40:38,240
You know, I found her at the right time.

902
01:40:38,240 --> 01:40:42,240
Well, I think the other side of that desperation conversation is hope.

903
01:40:42,240 --> 01:40:52,240
Just the concept of hope. And I think where hope is really kind of nourished is the toolbox is actually available for people to improve.

904
01:40:52,240 --> 01:40:58,240
And again, you know, after these brain injuries and other things doesn't mean that it's going to be like you were 20 again.

905
01:40:58,240 --> 01:41:07,240
But you're hearing amazing success from equine therapy and, you know, talk therapy, but also psychedelics and MDMA and all these other things.

906
01:41:07,240 --> 01:41:12,240
And I think that's the thing is that, you know, you.

907
01:41:12,240 --> 01:41:14,240
You will absolutely devastate your family.

908
01:41:14,240 --> 01:41:22,240
So the only other alternative from, you know, taking your own life is to figure out what is what are the things that would work for me, James Gearing or you, Craig.

909
01:41:22,240 --> 01:41:27,240
So in this journey, what are what are some of the things that you found work for you specifically?

910
01:41:27,240 --> 01:41:30,240
And then we'll obviously get to what you're doing now.

911
01:41:30,240 --> 01:41:38,240
Medication without a doubt, you know, medication is not the answer.

912
01:41:38,240 --> 01:41:46,240
And I've always said that every time I spoke to somebody who's done something, I've always said medication is not the answer.

913
01:41:46,240 --> 01:41:55,240
But if it stops me dipping and puts me on a straight line, I fucking take it any day, you know.

914
01:41:55,240 --> 01:42:00,240
But on the other hand, it's an antidepressant.

915
01:42:00,240 --> 01:42:09,240
So you have to keep getting evaluated all the time and assessed all the time to antidepressants become redundant after a while.

916
01:42:09,240 --> 01:42:13,240
So you have to keep, you know, and it's took them.

917
01:42:13,240 --> 01:42:17,240
It took. I said, I feel like I feel all right.

918
01:42:17,240 --> 01:42:21,240
You know, my medication at the moment, because they've got me on the right medication.

919
01:42:21,240 --> 01:42:35,240
And it's took, I would say, nine, ten years to get me on the right medication that I feel that I could motivate myself through the day, that I'm not on the phone crying all the time to Tanya.

920
01:42:35,240 --> 01:42:40,240
I'm not thinking constantly that I need to die all the time.

921
01:42:40,240 --> 01:42:45,240
You know.

922
01:42:45,240 --> 01:42:55,240
Also, little things like I shower a lot, three times a day, four times a day.

923
01:42:55,240 --> 01:42:59,240
If I feel depressed, I feel dirty and I need a shower.

924
01:42:59,240 --> 01:43:03,240
So I go and have a shower and I feel much better afterwards.

925
01:43:03,240 --> 01:43:09,240
Cold water bath, you know, I've got a cold water dip bath in the garden.

926
01:43:09,240 --> 01:43:16,240
Absolutely fucking freezing. But jumping there in the mornings, you know, fantastic.

927
01:43:16,240 --> 01:43:24,240
Revitalize your brain. The dopamine lasts for three hours, puts you on a high, you know.

928
01:43:24,240 --> 01:43:30,240
A weighted blanket. Sleeping with a weighted blanket.

929
01:43:30,240 --> 01:43:34,240
Tanya, I think my daughter brought me it for Christmas.

930
01:43:34,240 --> 01:43:42,240
She brought me a 10 kilo weighted blanket. And when I feel really shit, I will sleep with the weighted blanket on.

931
01:43:42,240 --> 01:43:50,240
And it gives you that support, you know, that that weightness releases the stress.

932
01:43:50,240 --> 01:43:52,240
I go to the gym.

933
01:43:52,240 --> 01:43:59,240
You know, the gym's not for everybody, but I've been fitness all my life and the gym really helps me.

934
01:43:59,240 --> 01:44:05,240
I get up half way every morning and I'm in the gym at half three in the morning and I train.

935
01:44:05,240 --> 01:44:13,240
And I train for a couple of hours and I go to work and it makes me feel good, you know, especially shower afterwards, mixing everything up.

936
01:44:13,240 --> 01:44:21,240
Camper van. I bought myself a little camper van, you know, and I get out and about in my little camper.

937
01:44:21,240 --> 01:44:29,240
But the two things are the most is my wife, Tanya and my dog Steve.

938
01:44:29,240 --> 01:44:33,240
Brilliant. And they're my purpose.

939
01:44:33,240 --> 01:44:39,240
And when I say to Tanya, I feel like I've got no purpose. She says to me, I'm your purpose.

940
01:44:39,240 --> 01:44:46,240
Steve's your purpose. Teddy, Wilma is your purpose. Danny's your purpose. Lesley's your purpose.

941
01:44:46,240 --> 01:44:51,240
They're my daughters. Imogen, my little granddaughter, she's your purpose.

942
01:44:51,240 --> 01:44:55,240
And it sort of kicks you straight on the narrow again.

943
01:44:55,240 --> 01:45:01,240
But the main thing is the medication. You need to put that stability back in your life.

944
01:45:01,240 --> 01:45:08,240
And these people trying drugs or micro dosing or whatever. Yeah, it works.

945
01:45:08,240 --> 01:45:12,240
It works for some people, but your body will change after a while.

946
01:45:12,240 --> 01:45:16,240
Your body will get used to it. And that's why you're off of that big hit all the time,

947
01:45:16,240 --> 01:45:20,240
because you want to take fucking more and more and more, you know.

948
01:45:20,240 --> 01:45:23,240
And that's why you need to be closely monitored with your medication.

949
01:45:23,240 --> 01:45:26,240
And I say, I think the army needs to step in.

950
01:45:26,240 --> 01:45:36,240
And when I said you'd be monitored for two to three years after getting out the army to sort your medication out, you know, to sort everything out.

951
01:45:36,240 --> 01:45:40,240
So there is stuff that I do to keep me here.

952
01:45:40,240 --> 01:45:44,240
You know, I write things down as well. I've got a book that I write everything down.

953
01:45:44,240 --> 01:45:51,240
All my negative thoughts I write in this book. You know, it's a fucking horrible book. Horrible what's in there.

954
01:45:51,240 --> 01:45:57,240
But I just write stuff down in it. What I'm thinking. Horrible thoughts. Fucking jot it down.

955
01:45:57,240 --> 01:46:09,240
You know, but yeah, I think medication, my wife is one of the top one. You know.

956
01:46:09,240 --> 01:46:16,240
So talk to me then about survival. I had one of my school friends, Will Bundy, is one of the teachers in the army.

957
01:46:16,240 --> 01:46:23,240
I had John Hudson on the show. I think he's one of the kind of survivalist gurus in the military, I think, in the UK.

958
01:46:23,240 --> 01:46:37,240
How did you get into that side? And then let's talk about maverick survival and what you're doing to combine all the things that we've discussed, you know, the outdoors, kind of, you know, sniper element, but also the mental health element.

959
01:46:37,240 --> 01:46:47,240
So I did the school because I call it maverick because it was my call sign on my tools. I was maverick for one as a sniper.

960
01:46:47,240 --> 01:46:52,240
So everyone knows me as maverick for one. So that's why I call it the maverick survival school.

961
01:46:52,240 --> 01:47:03,240
And always been interested in bushcraft through the army, doing survival stuff, civilian bushcraft stuff as well.

962
01:47:03,240 --> 01:47:10,240
And I wanted to combine all so that I could teach people bushcraft.

963
01:47:10,240 --> 01:47:18,240
But I wanted it just for veterans, you know, and I wanted it so it was a getaway, not for learning bushcraft.

964
01:47:18,240 --> 01:47:30,240
I suppose bushcraft is secondary thing. But the first thing is getting away from reality and getting in a wood of an open fire, sitting on a log, talking shit, you know.

965
01:47:30,240 --> 01:47:39,240
And veterans have got a black humor and it's fantastic to sit there and just laugh and joke and just talk about stuff.

966
01:47:39,240 --> 01:47:47,240
You know, there's no phone signal, there's no alcohol. You're just talking, you know, and it fucking works.

967
01:47:47,240 --> 01:47:53,240
And then we do a bit of bushcraft. Yeah, we throw a bit of bushcraft in as well. And that helps.

968
01:47:53,240 --> 01:48:06,240
And then me and Tanya sort of came up with the whole idea of it's just not veterans that suffer, you know, it's first line responders, ambulance, police, fire brigade.

969
01:48:06,240 --> 01:48:12,240
And then we thought it's just not them either. It's actual civilians with childhood trauma and stuff like that.

970
01:48:12,240 --> 01:48:33,240
So we just opened up to everybody to come down to the Maverick School and just relax, depressurize, learn a bit of bushcraft, learn about what we used to do back in the Neolithic times, you know, and then go back with a different attitude.

971
01:48:33,240 --> 01:48:43,240
And it works. And what's special about the school is a therapist will come down and my therapist comes down on a Saturday evening.

972
01:48:43,240 --> 01:48:55,240
And if you wish to talk to him, he'll take you for a little walk and you go and talk to him and he will give you support and he will give you ideas how to cope with your depression, your PTSD.

973
01:48:55,240 --> 01:49:07,240
But he won't just give you support. He will follow you up. You know, he won't just dump you on that day. He will follow you up and make sure you're getting the right support and help.

974
01:49:07,240 --> 01:49:23,240
And it's fantastic how it works. And I don't know any other school that does that. I know bushcraft schools, but I don't know any other bushcraft schools that lend support to veterans like First Line or civilians.

975
01:49:23,240 --> 01:49:36,240
But the schools have gone strength to strength and it helps me, you know, because I love teaching. I love passing my knowledge on to others and seeing them gain from my knowledge.

976
01:49:36,240 --> 01:49:43,240
I love it. And to see that, it helps me with my mental health, my PTSD, you know.

977
01:49:43,240 --> 01:49:56,240
And Tanya always says to me, she sees a change in me when I come back, you know, I'm more on a high or more, you know, this is what we've done, this is what we've done. And then through the week, my depression comes back again.

978
01:49:56,240 --> 01:50:08,240
And then the weekend I'm teaching again. So I'm back up there on my high again. So it does give me a bit of stability. But yeah, the school's been going for about three years now, three and a half years.

979
01:50:08,240 --> 01:50:23,240
And I've just got charity status. So I'm a fully fledged charity now. And so people that come down to the school, you know, they experience everything and they don't have to have prior knowledge.

980
01:50:23,240 --> 01:50:34,240
You don't have to have the equipment. I apply everything for you. I'll give you all the kit so you can have a nice weekend down there. And that's what the survival school is all about.

981
01:50:34,240 --> 01:50:59,240
You know, escapism and nature, trees, just they ooze calmness, you know, and people see it and they go, yeah, I've had many an email. Tanya answers my Instagram and does emails for me.

982
01:50:59,240 --> 01:51:13,240
And she sees how I've changed people's lives, you know, with the school. And, you know, it just makes me happy. Just makes me happy.

983
01:51:13,240 --> 01:51:42,240
One thing I hear I told you is a lot of common denominators that come out of so many conversations. And again, going back to hope, when people have figured out how to work through these struggles, you know, and obviously some things are going to be easier than others if there's a anatomical change in the brain through trauma, I mean, they're hoping that the psilocybin actually shows good results of fixing, you know, that damage, but whatever the combination of tools that they've used to go through it on the other end, they become a better version of that.

984
01:51:42,240 --> 01:52:03,240
A better version of themselves, a more resilient person, but also they become a beacon of light for other people that are healing. And the ability then to give back is what I tell a lot of, you know, first responders, you went into this profession because you were a good person, you wanted to help people, you went into the army because you wanted to protect people, you know, and become a farrier.

985
01:52:03,240 --> 01:52:27,240
But you know, so that purpose hasn't changed at all. That's who you are, not what you did. And so when you come out the other end, you're still helping people. So it doesn't surprise me for a moment that between the combination of being in nature, and obviously you're kind of rural upbringing, and refinding that purpose outside of the uniform, that when those two come together, it's healing for you as well.

986
01:52:27,240 --> 01:52:49,240
Oh, massively, massively, you know, and I love to heal everybody. Yeah. And yeah, I think the school just got stronger and stronger, you know, and it get better and better. More, more people are trying to reach out to.

987
01:52:49,240 --> 01:52:57,240
Absolutely. Well, while we're on that subject, then where can people find the website for the school? How can they donate? How can they participate?

988
01:52:57,240 --> 01:53:21,240
So if you go on to Google type in the Maverick Survival School, it will come up on the Google search, tap on there, the website will come up and at the bottom there's a donate button, and it will take you to a donate page. Every donation that is given always go to somebody suffering with mental health.

989
01:53:21,240 --> 01:53:42,240
It's a non profitable organization, the Maverick School, so no one takes any money. It goes to getting food kit and helping people that are struggling with their mental health massively and more support I get would be the better, you know, and it just goes, it goes a long way.

990
01:53:42,240 --> 01:54:11,240
It goes a long way. You know, before I was a charity, me and Tanya were funding ourselves, you know, because we felt so passionate about the school and passionate about helping people, you know, but now I'm a charity, you know, I do depend on people's generosity to donate, you know, because it does go a long way to help in a veteran and to see a veteran change or first arm responder or civilian, see their faces change and everything.

991
01:54:11,240 --> 01:54:14,240
Everything is priceless. It's priceless.

992
01:54:14,240 --> 01:54:25,240
Beautiful. Well, I want to get some closing questions but just before I do, you wrote a book as well about obviously the journey that we've discussed today called The Longest Kill. So where can people find your book?

993
01:54:25,240 --> 01:54:28,240
So my books on Amazon, The Longest Kill.

994
01:54:28,240 --> 01:54:35,240
So yeah, just go onto Amazon and get my book. Apparently it's an interesting read.

995
01:54:35,240 --> 01:54:51,240
It's also an audio book as well and I'm not sure the guy's name that narrates it but he's, he does a fucking fantastic job, you know, really how to sort of thing, you know, but yeah.

996
01:54:51,240 --> 01:54:55,240
Yeah, go go on to Amazon and see if you like the read.

997
01:54:55,240 --> 01:55:08,240
Beautiful. All right. Well, the very first closing question related to what we just said, are there books written by other people that you love to recommend? It can be related to our discussion today or completely unrelated.

998
01:55:08,240 --> 01:55:15,240
There's a book that I love. There's two, do you know what, there's only two books I've ever read in, no, three books that I've ever read in my life.

999
01:55:15,240 --> 01:55:30,240
One of them is the Hulk Hogan autobiography, which is absolutely fantastic. And the second one, well, this would probably be my top read. It's by an author called Tom Reed, it's called Freefall.

1000
01:55:30,240 --> 01:55:36,240
And it's not his real name, his real name is not Tom Reed, it's a pseudonym.

1001
01:55:36,240 --> 01:55:50,240
But he's the next Special Forces guy who wants to do the highest altitude jump. And I'm not going to tell anymore because it's a fucking fantastic read. Yeah. Also my book as well. That's a good read as well.

1002
01:55:50,240 --> 01:55:56,240
Absolutely. All right. Well, then what about films and documentaries that you love?

1003
01:55:56,240 --> 01:56:10,240
My favorite film is Heat with Robert De Niro and Al Pacino. That's one of my bestest films. Raging Bull of Robert De Niro. I love that film as well.

1004
01:56:10,240 --> 01:56:16,240
But yeah, they're two top films I really enjoy, you know, watch over and over again.

1005
01:56:16,240 --> 01:56:28,240
Brilliant. All right. Well, the next question, is there a person that you'd recommend to come on this podcast as a guest to speak to the first responders, military and associated professions of the world?

1006
01:56:28,240 --> 01:56:56,240
Somebody I'd recommend probably, he probably doesn't know me, but Foxy, the ex Special Forces guy. Jason Fox. Jason Fox, yeah. He'd be a good bloke to get on your show. One because he suffered with PTSD. Secondly, he's experienced combat, you know, and it'd be good to get his view on how he tackles his PTSD and how he helps others.

1007
01:56:56,240 --> 01:57:14,240
Beautiful. Yeah, I've got lots of mutual friends. I've never actually kind of pulled the trigger on reaching out to him. So I need to. Yeah. All right. Well, then the very last question, just to reaffirm, where can people find the survival school and or you personally on social media?

1008
01:57:14,240 --> 01:57:32,240
On Instagram, which is COH Craig Harrison, my Instagram and also on my web page as well. There's an email address on there. So if you tap on the email address, that will go straight to me and me and Tanya.

1009
01:57:32,240 --> 01:57:44,240
We answer every single message that we get sent through Instagram or through email as well. And if you're struggling, you need someone to talk to, just reach out to me anytime, anyplace.

1010
01:57:44,240 --> 01:57:55,240
Tanya will talk to you. I will talk to you and I'll give you sort of coping mechanisms how to get through your day. All right. But they're the best. They're the best way to get hold of me.

1011
01:57:55,240 --> 01:58:08,240
Beautiful. Well, Craig, I want to say thank you so much. Instagram almost derailed this conversation by shutting down the page when we were communicating. But it's been an incredible conversation. And I reiterate this.

1012
01:58:08,240 --> 01:58:25,240
The voice of someone who we would consider an alpha, you know, and obviously that's kind of got a negative connotation sometimes when we use that word. But, you know, someone who does a masculine profession, those are the most powerful voices when it comes to courageous vulnerability.

1013
01:58:25,240 --> 01:58:43,240
These men in this case saying, no, I do struggle. No, I have gone through these things. No, I did almost take my own life because then I think it debunks all the ridiculous bullshit that our generation came up with. Like, boys don't cry, rub some dirt and it's suck it up because that's not how humans are. We yin and yang.

1014
01:58:43,240 --> 01:58:52,240
So I want to thank you so, so much for being so generous with your time and courageously vulnerable and coming on the Behind the Shield podcast today.

1015
01:58:52,240 --> 01:58:58,240
No, it's a pleasure, James. And thank you for letting me talk and thanks for letting me on the show.