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And you can listen to my conversation with John on episode 1011 of the Behind the Shield

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podcast.

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Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast.

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As always, my name is James Gearing and this week it is my absolute honor to welcome on

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the show first responder, dietician, Megan Louts.

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Now we discuss a host of topics from her journey into the world of nutrition, the high level

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of education it takes to be a certified dietician, her immersion into the world of firefighting,

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longevity versus performance, hydration, caffeine, alcohol, sleep, and so much more.

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Now before we get to this incredible conversation, as I say every week, please just take a moment.

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Go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback, and

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leave a rating.

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Every single five star rating truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making it easier for

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others to find.

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And this is a free library of over 1000 episodes now.

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So all I ask in return is that you help share these incredible men and women stories so

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I can get them to every single person on planet earth who needs to hear them.

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So with that being said, I introduce to you Megan Louts.

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Enjoy.

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Well, Megan, I want to start by saying thank you so much for taking the time and coming

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on the Behind the Shield podcast today.

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Yeah, I'm so excited to be here.

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I've been listening for a while, so I'm not as special as most of your guests, but you

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know, I'm excited to talk about the vegetables.

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They always say the same thing.

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So trust me.

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Well, where on planet earth we finding you this afternoon?

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I live in a county just outside Baltimore, Maryland.

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So BWI airport, if you ever fly in, you fly into my hometown of lithium.

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Brilliant.

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Well, I would love to start the very beginning of your journey before we progress into your

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work and specialty.

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Tell me where you were born and tell me a little bit about your family dynamic, what

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your parents did, how many siblings?

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Sure.

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Yeah.

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So I was born in Annapolis, Maryland.

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My parents, my mom was a teacher.

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My dad, well, my parents both were teachers.

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They met at Loyola and my mom ended up switching over to real estate and I have three sisters,

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no, two sisters.

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There's three of us.

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I have two younger sisters.

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I'm the oldest.

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I've had a really spoiled childhood.

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I mean, I wouldn't say we were like super well off from a financial perspective, but

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my parents were at every soccer game, every, you know, they were very involved with us,

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always very supportive and have continued to be supportive.

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I have a six month old daughter and they really help us out a lot with that.

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Beautiful.

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And what about your dad's profession?

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He was a teacher.

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Teacher as well.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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He was a middle school teacher, so it was a little rough and tumble there.

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What have they said about the evolution or devolution of education in their eyes through

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the last few decades?

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Yeah.

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Well, so my mom's been out of teaching since we were little because she went to real estate

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because she was like, we both can't be teachers and have, you know, three kids.

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It's just not, it's not possible, right, to watch.

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But you know, my dad, he, I think he retired with 30 years of teaching and he would have

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probably done longer, but the problem was there wasn't support at the top of the chain

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from the principal's standpoint.

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Kids were getting away with cursing at teachers, hitting teachers.

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There was a 16 year old prostitute at one point.

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Like these kids were just completely dysregulated and there was no support from the upper level

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management and he just couldn't, couldn't deal with it anymore.

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I think this is the thing is, you know, we talk about the broken homes, for example,

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but there's just a multi-generational element.

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I'm sure the young lady who was a sex worker, you know, one would assume that maybe there

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was a fragmented element and a domino effect in her household.

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So when you look at like the finished model, they invest in their communities more if they're

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struggling, you know, they look at the child as a whole rather than just grades.

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And, you know, listening to a lot of the people in the education world and seeing it through

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my son's journey, you know, with the standardized testing, there's a lot of amazing people in

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teaching, but we really don't set them up for success at all.

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No, no, my sister's a teacher and it's the same thing.

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I mean, she's in a Catholic school, so it's a slightly different setup, but yeah, I mean,

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it definitely starts at home for sure.

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And there's a lot of, a lot of kids out there kind of struggling and it just kind of shows

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up at school, unfortunately.

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Well, while we're on the topic of school, talk to me about school food.

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Well, you know, it's based off of the USDA standards in a magical fairy tale land, but

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it's still not a perfect thing.

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And I am by no means the expert.

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There are some really wonderful dieticians who do work in school food who are trying

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to make some changes.

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But I can't say I've seen it since I was in school and it was like the rectangle pizzas

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and I don't know what else, I can't even remember, jello cups kind of vibes.

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What's your perspective on the kind of lack of support they're getting on the physical

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side?

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So recess and PE and obviously the food that they're exposed to, the kind of education

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really of their food, hey, I'm at school, so this must be what food is, you know, pizza

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and burgers and all the things.

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And that impact on the way that the fire service, especially some of these younger firefighters,

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are being groomed to eat when they get in uniform.

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Yeah, I mean, and I think the other problem is, especially as they get older, you know,

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not cooking and the reliance of convenience foods because that's just, it's exploded

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that convenience food isn't since I've been in school.

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You know, you couldn't just order food to your house really other than pizza, right?

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So but yeah, I mean, I think the challenge is, you know, recesses, there's a book called

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Spark.

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Did you ever read Spark?

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I've heard of it, but I haven't read it.

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It's been a long time, so don't hold me to the exact book, right?

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But it basically was kind of reviewing the need for physical activity in our schools

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more than just like, oh, you're just giving them a little bit of a mental break.

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Like we actually see better test scores.

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And then also understanding that different students come in at different fitness levels.

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So if you see, you know, two of the girls just kind of walking around during the mile

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instead of running like the rest of the students, I believe they put a heart rate monitor on

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those two girls and their heart rates were significantly higher.

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They were up there with the students running.

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And I think there's a huge parallel there to the fire service, especially when we look

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at firefighter recruits, especially for cadres that are a little more rough and tumble older,

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maybe military background where, you know, we need our, you know, our recruits to be

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coming in fit and then running them like they are fit when they're not.

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And then kind of struggling with the injuries, right?

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The, the shin splints, you know, or, or larger injuries from like a knee injury standpoint,

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shoulder injury standpoint, because they're overdoing the fitness side to a deconditioned

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group.

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So like I said, I think there's a big pair of parallel there.

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Sometimes the sandbaggers aren't maybe sandbagging.

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I mean, there are still some, but it's an interesting book.

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Yeah, I have to, I have to read that.

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Definitely.

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The fire service, when I was testing 20 years ago, you know, you had to walk through the

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door fit.

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So whatever, you know, you could have been deconditioned, but if you chose this profession,

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then you had to do a lot of work to get yourself to the point where you were Academy ready.

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And yes, then they would, you know, build you up even more.

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What I'm seeing at the moment with this recruitment crisis, which, you know, ultimately is steeped

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in poor leadership is that now they're taking everyone.

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So I think that's why, what I'll do is one of the reasons why we're seeing more and more

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injuries, more and more, you know, cardiac issues in the fire ground, Rabdo, that kind

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of thing, because you're getting people that are being brought into civilians or, you know,

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there's such a desperate need that maybe they're not able to impose the standards that they

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put on us 20 years ago.

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Yeah, no, the standards, they have to be softened, right?

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If you truly want like, and I've seen several departments struggle with Rabdo and some of

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these other conditions related to overtraining, you can't just keep overtraining them.

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It's not going to magically fix the problem of them not coming in fit.

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So I mean, maybe that is longer academies.

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I don't really have the answer other than you've really got to progress the training

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and then also pay attention to the nutrition piece because a lot of times they're also

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coming in under fueled.

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And that nutrition piece isn't just we'll just eat chicken and broccoli, like, and just

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deal with it.

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It's actually targeted carbohydrate management, protein and timing of food that that really

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makes a difference.

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When you were young, what sports and exercise were you doing and playing back then?

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Yeah, I played, I was not very good at sports, partially because I have astigmatism and I

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didn't realize I was blind until pretty much later on.

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So I my hand eye coordination is not good.

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But I played soccer, I played basketball, track, probably named sport, I've probably

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played it.

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I've always been pretty athletic, but I mostly was just really good at running into people.

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Played soccer with the boys school next to my girl, all girl school, like just got used

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to kind of ramming into people.

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And unfortunately, that's kind of a personality defect at this point.

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But that kind of got me into I'm also a personal trainer, been a personal trainer longer than

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I've been a dietician.

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And got into that in high school and thought I was going to be an athletic trainer and

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then realized that they had to touch people and out.

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I don't like touching people.

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So I switched over to dietetics and then picked up personal training while I was in school.

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Yeah, the fire service probably wouldn't have suited you well.

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We got to touch people that are covered in poo.

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So yeah, no, everybody's like, Oh, just become a firefighter.

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You're you're fit enough.

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You can do it.

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And I'm like, No, I don't do blood.

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I don't do guts.

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I don't do any no touchy, no smells.

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No.

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Yeah, no, no, no, there's lots of touchy, lots of smells.

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No, no, no, no, no, no.

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All right.

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Well, then let's kind of walk through your career path then.

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So you had this this desire to be an athletic trainer.

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Obviously, you took a turn.

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How did that take you into the world of food nutrition?

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Yeah, actually, I think I can attribute this.

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So like when I went to an all girl school, right, and we had gym and you know, most people

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remember gym as like, Oh, we played dodgeball or we played kickball.

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And it was just kind of like, not superstructured.

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Typically, I feel like this was like a drill sergeant.

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Like we had, you know, the circuits she had us do tricep dips and like running and squats

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and jump rope.

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And it was like, you know, especially for us, school of all women, like you're not exposed

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to weight training and that kind of thing, especially 20 years ago, right.

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So you know, that kind of I just liked it.

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I was like, Oh, this is kind of cool.

232
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Like I like the fitness aspect.

233
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And then I started kind of reading about nutrition.

234
00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:05,600
And I started getting excited about that from more of a performance perspective.

235
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I've always liked more of the performance side of things like the sports nutrition or

236
00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:11,760
the fitness side.

237
00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:17,860
So when I got to I went to James Madison University in Virginia, got there realized I didn't like

238
00:14:17,860 --> 00:14:22,120
touching people pretty much immediately and switched over to dietetics.

239
00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:30,080
Unfortunately not realizing that dietetics is like 99% community food service and clinical.

240
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So I hated school.

241
00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:34,400
But I topped it out and it worked out.

242
00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:36,520
I almost switched over to exercise science.

243
00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:40,880
I'm really glad that I didn't because I do feel I'm able to meet a big gap in the fire

244
00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:42,640
service now.

245
00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:44,840
But it was touch and go there for a minute.

246
00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:48,440
What did that look like the community service side of it?

247
00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:49,980
It really less community.

248
00:14:49,980 --> 00:14:55,400
So there's when you go through school as a dietitian, right, it's four years undergrad,

249
00:14:55,400 --> 00:15:00,320
then you do a year unpaid internship where you pay 10 grand to work 40 hour weeks.

250
00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:02,120
So that's fun.

251
00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:06,100
And then now we require a master's degree, then you can sit for your board.

252
00:15:06,100 --> 00:15:09,880
So it's somewhere between six and eight years of education depending on how the math ends

253
00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:12,040
up.

254
00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:20,320
But the community side is more like WIC, women, infants and children, lifestyle, like life

255
00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:21,320
stages.

256
00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:22,540
So like how do you feed a baby?

257
00:15:22,540 --> 00:15:24,620
How do you feed a breastfeeding mom?

258
00:15:24,620 --> 00:15:26,840
How do you feel an 80 year old?

259
00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:32,760
Physical nutrition and a heavy emphasis on clinical and a heavy emphasis on science.

260
00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:38,320
So biochemistry, organic chemistry, biology, that's usually what knocks a lot of people

261
00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:43,200
out of dietetics is not being able to get some of those tougher higher level classes.

262
00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:49,160
I did the exercise physiology route and was basically was disappointed when I came out

263
00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:52,640
the other end because I was hoping you know, obviously the goal is to forge a career when

264
00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:57,680
you go into sports science, ex-phys, you're thinking, you know, coaching, performance.

265
00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:02,560
And what I saw was a lot of kind of myopic classes and we were studying, you know, that

266
00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:09,160
this would increase a jump by 2% and all this stuff and it really didn't serve us well for

267
00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:13,560
actually going out into the real world and helping people.

268
00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:18,520
With your education, especially with some of the nutritional advice being so backward

269
00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:23,880
now when we reflect on it, was there any kind of disconnect between the educational journey

270
00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:27,240
you took and the real world once you entered it?

271
00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:28,760
Oh my God, yeah.

272
00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:35,160
I mean it, so and you have to understand too like dietetics is like, and exercise physiology

273
00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:36,160
is the same way.

274
00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,920
Did you ever have any like classes with dietetic students or like exposure to dietetic?

275
00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:41,480
Not that I remember, no.

276
00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:43,120
Okay, yeah, because we're a hot mess.

277
00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:44,400
I mean, not a hot mess.

278
00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:50,240
Like in the sense that like we are very rigid people, like dietetics we had two men in our

279
00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:56,480
class and the rest of the 30 were all females, very type A, very driven.

280
00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:58,400
Actually there was a good amount of disordered eating.

281
00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:04,200
I haven't seen studies but I'd probably argue that about 80% of people getting into

282
00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:06,640
dietetics have some level of disordered eating.

283
00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:10,960
You get into what you are obsessed with, right?

284
00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:17,040
So yeah, I mean it's a very rigid personality type and that the challenge with that is when

285
00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:20,760
we come out, we think textbook, right?

286
00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:25,760
And they have class, like we had classes on motivational interviewing but it was motivational

287
00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:26,760
interviewing.

288
00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:30,160
Like, you know, it was like first this, then this, then that.

289
00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:33,880
And it's like that's, and then you get into do a session and you're like, this is not

290
00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:36,680
going the way I thought it would be.

291
00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:43,000
Like they don't talk about like, how do I talk to someone who's 50% body fat, 400 pounds

292
00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:48,600
overweight, there's emotional issues, there's potential abuse, there's access to food is

293
00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,280
limited and they can't cook.

294
00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:53,080
What do I do with that?

295
00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:58,200
They don't teach you how to start from ground zero basically.

296
00:17:58,200 --> 00:17:59,880
And what about the actual nutritional advice?

297
00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:03,240
When you think about the food pyramid, you know, they were telling us breads and pastas

298
00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:04,240
and all those kinds of things.

299
00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:05,240
Sure.

300
00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:08,520
And then we were looking at, you know, the US, I think they got carbs down.

301
00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:10,160
I think they're doing well, you know what I mean?

302
00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:15,360
It's the other macronutrients and protein and exercise and hydration, you know, the

303
00:18:15,360 --> 00:18:17,360
refined starches, I think we're nailing that.

304
00:18:17,360 --> 00:18:21,400
So maybe we shouldn't have that as the base anymore because it results in 70% of the country

305
00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:23,480
being overweight.

306
00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:24,480
So what about-

307
00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:26,160
Well, you've gone away from that.

308
00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:30,680
The food pyramid has been out for a while.

309
00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:34,840
Like even when I was in school, we weren't talking to the food pyramid and that was 15

310
00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:35,840
years ago, I think.

311
00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:36,840
Wait, how old am I?

312
00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:37,840
I don't know how old I am.

313
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:38,840
10 years ago, maybe.

314
00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:44,600
Yeah, food, sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off, but the food pyramid is not it.

315
00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:47,760
It's not really a thing anymore, right?

316
00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:48,760
It's more my plate.

317
00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:50,000
Have you seen my plate?

318
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:51,000
I remember that.

319
00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:55,800
Yeah, I mean, I'm just thinking of, you know, the fact that the children's food is still

320
00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:59,280
pizzas and they're saying, well, tomato is a vegetable.

321
00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:03,520
And so I'm not seeing a change in the food, put it that way, whatever the little diagram

322
00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:04,920
that they're putting out there.

323
00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:08,480
Yeah, and I'm not the person to really talk to that too about that.

324
00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:12,640
That's a policy issue is my understanding.

325
00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:15,040
We definitely need more fruits, more veggies.

326
00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:18,080
The other challenges cost, right?

327
00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:22,240
But again, I can't speak to that.

328
00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:28,240
We've kind of shifted more to my plate, which I think is like slightly more than a quarter

329
00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:30,480
of the plate is grains.

330
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:31,480
I can't remember all of that.

331
00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:35,240
I actually don't really use my plate because my first responders don't eat off of plates

332
00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:36,480
half the time.

333
00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:41,760
So it just doesn't really work from an educational standpoint, in my opinion, for most of the

334
00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:42,920
fire service.

335
00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:46,760
It works a little bit better for people out in the regular world.

336
00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:47,760
Gotcha.

337
00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:48,760
All right.

338
00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:52,720
Well then, so as you kind of find yourself in the real world and you're trying to figure

339
00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:56,880
out how do I interact with all these different types of people that aren't textbook kind

340
00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:03,000
of classic examples, what was your learning curve to actually finding your own path to

341
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:06,040
communicate with these people you were trying to help?

342
00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:07,040
Yeah.

343
00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:12,920
So actually, you know what I think really helped me and was actually my lowest of lows

344
00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:14,680
was my bodybuilding competition.

345
00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:20,600
So when I was in my internship, which was a very stressful time for me because I hated

346
00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:24,400
it, it felt like BS to me.

347
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:26,080
I didn't want to work in community.

348
00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:28,840
I didn't want to do stuff for nutrition for aging.

349
00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:32,800
I didn't want to do stuff in the hospital even though I was really good at it.

350
00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:36,600
It just felt like you were having a 10-minute conversation with someone who just had a heart

351
00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,160
attack and you're like, just don't eat bacon.

352
00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:43,080
And they're like, it's so much more than that.

353
00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:44,160
Right?

354
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:46,720
So I did this bodybuilding competition while I was in my internship.

355
00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:52,780
I was going for a bikini level, which is the least muscular, but a very, very lean level

356
00:20:52,780 --> 00:20:54,800
for a female.

357
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:59,360
I was working out, personal training, all of that, and I developed an eating disorder

358
00:20:59,360 --> 00:21:00,360
while I was doing that.

359
00:21:00,360 --> 00:21:04,520
I never had one before, never had issues with food before.

360
00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:08,440
It was just like I felt like people were watching me because I was posting about it on social

361
00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:09,440
media.

362
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:10,920
I did it to myself.

363
00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:17,600
But my stress levels were causing me to overeat and I was in such a restricted state that

364
00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:19,080
that just fueled it.

365
00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:23,160
So what I would end up doing was if I didn't hit my macros perfectly, right?

366
00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:26,840
Because if you don't hit them perfectly, you're not getting on stage lean enough.

367
00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:28,040
I would purge.

368
00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:30,080
So bulimia was a big issue for me.

369
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:35,440
And I felt like if I wasn't perfect, I had to purge in X, Y, Z way.

370
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:36,440
Right?

371
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,160
And it got pretty bad like two, three times a day.

372
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,800
I was really, really lean, like veins in my abs.

373
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:47,960
I mean, it was kind of sick, but I mean, other than, minus this major mental health disorder

374
00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:49,600
going on.

375
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:53,800
But basically what that taught me, I never ended up getting on stage.

376
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:59,580
I actually pulled out a week before the competition because I basically forced myself to purge

377
00:21:59,580 --> 00:22:01,920
and then I went to the gym to purge some more.

378
00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:02,920
Right?

379
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:08,200
And I'm on the quad extension hysterically crying.

380
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:14,040
And I'm like, okay, maybe this is time to stop doing this.

381
00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:20,880
And so I basically said, this wasn't for me because it pushed me into a disordered space.

382
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:25,320
And I think it parallels because there's a lot of people in the fire service who are

383
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:26,760
very binary in their thinking.

384
00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:29,240
They're either on the plan or they're off the plan.

385
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:33,000
And even some of your healthy, really lean people, you'd be surprised there might be

386
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:34,640
some disordered tendencies there.

387
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:38,440
And there are several different disordered eating tendencies in the fire service that

388
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:39,560
I've seen.

389
00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:43,560
So that really kind of taught me from a textbook standpoint.

390
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:47,280
You expecting someone to be perfect and to hit everything in the textbook to be perfect

391
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:50,140
all the time, isn't a fair statement.

392
00:22:50,140 --> 00:22:54,920
And it can actually make their lives worse if you push it too hard.

393
00:22:54,920 --> 00:23:02,280
So I had to learn from my own experience that being perfect may not be the right fit.

394
00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:06,520
And we have to kind of look more at the overall picture other than just what's going in people's

395
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:08,440
mouths.

396
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:13,600
What is your perspective of performance versus longevity?

397
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,800
And the reason I asked this, and I've had this conversation with loads of people on

398
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:21,600
here now, but when I came to the States, and I'll give you the abbreviated version, I'd

399
00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:26,680
started meeting all these men usually in their mid-20s, early 30s.

400
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,480
And it was always an Uncle Rico story.

401
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:34,480
And as I ended up talking to them, they were baseball players, football players until the

402
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:36,240
MCL, the shoulder, whatever it was.

403
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:41,120
I could have, should have, would have been the next NBA insert professional sports here.

404
00:23:41,120 --> 00:23:46,240
And I realized that at the school and college level, they were squeezing performance out

405
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:51,200
of these young people a lot of times at the expense of their longevity and their overall

406
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:52,200
health.

407
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:53,480
There's a massive boom now.

408
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,840
When I was young, bodybuilding was big and then obviously it kind of died down.

409
00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:02,240
And then now I think between social media and a lot of these kind of TRT clinics popping

410
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:06,080
up everywhere, we've got a lot of young people diving back into that.

411
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:09,720
And I would assume that some of those are in the fire service as well.

412
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:15,440
And so I see a combination of again, that kind of mentality from school and then in

413
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:20,560
my gender, body dysmorphia too, which should probably be more of the kind of mental health

414
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:21,560
element.

415
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:22,560
Yeah.

416
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:31,480
And I'll take that as, I think there's a misunderstanding of performance and kind of dieting and being

417
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:37,520
in a deficit for too long or too extreme of a deficit for too long, which for both men

418
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:41,000
and women forks your hormones up.

419
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:45,840
So sometimes testosterone, it's not just the sleep deprivation and maybe potentially the

420
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:50,880
lack of working out, but it's also how long have you been in a deficit?

421
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:51,880
Has it been years?

422
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:57,000
I mean, if you've seen the bottom of your abs for five years, I mean, and you've been

423
00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,280
pushing it and you're running the bottom of the barrel, it might be time to put a little

424
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:01,720
bit of fat back on.

425
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,260
So that's where we're talking about extremes.

426
00:25:04,260 --> 00:25:10,040
I would say that's probably fewer and far between, but yeah, being in a cut for too

427
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:15,920
long or cutting your calories for too long can actually backfire from a performance perspective

428
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:18,480
and from a longevity perspective.

429
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:22,560
So sometimes if you're looking from a black and white performance perspective, which is

430
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:24,240
usually I want gains, right?

431
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,520
I want to get bigger muscles and leaner.

432
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,600
The bodybuilders do have it right from an evidence standpoint.

433
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:35,680
They put on some weight, they put on some body fat in order to maximize muscle gain

434
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:37,200
within reason, right?

435
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:42,540
And then when they do want to get leaner, they're doing it slower and they're also keeping

436
00:25:42,540 --> 00:25:47,080
their protein pretty high along with that.

437
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:51,020
So what are you seeing in the fire service as far as that element?

438
00:25:51,020 --> 00:25:56,000
Because like I said, I'm seeing a lot of young people kind of being pulled back into that.

439
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,720
It seems to be one of the ideals just like the Schwarzenegger's and Rambo's were when

440
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:03,920
I was young, which I think is very unhealthy because we don't walk around like that.

441
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:05,680
It's not safe to walk around like that.

442
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:09,760
And you hear a lot of these young bodybuilders dropping dead because they obviously are doing

443
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:10,760
whatever it is wrong.

444
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,080
Oh yeah, heart attacks and a box aeroids, yeah.

445
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:18,600
So what are you seeing as far as just in general, this culture, this rise of bodybuilding again,

446
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:24,620
maybe not as you said, the measured intelligent bodybuilding, but I want to be like that guy

447
00:26:24,620 --> 00:26:30,000
on Instagram bodybuilding as far as the tactical population that you're working with.

448
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:34,200
Yeah, I mean, I can tell you there's been many tech rescue stations that have asked

449
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:35,860
me what steroids I recommend.

450
00:26:35,860 --> 00:26:40,320
And usually I go with whatever the liver King's on that stack that he had in that email that

451
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:41,320
was linked.

452
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:42,320
It's not on steroids, was it?

453
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:44,580
No, not at all.

454
00:26:44,580 --> 00:26:49,400
It's normal to be that orange and weirdly square.

455
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:51,600
Yeah.

456
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:57,120
So the huge problem, anabolic steroids can significantly impact your heart, especially

457
00:26:57,120 --> 00:27:03,080
if you are not taking that supervised by a doctor who's trained in anabolic steroids.

458
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:04,480
And of course they're illegal.

459
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:08,840
So like doctors don't want to touch that with a 10 foot pole.

460
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:10,920
They do exist though.

461
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:17,180
But in any case, there's a big issue with going based off the jack guy on TikTok, right?

462
00:27:17,180 --> 00:27:20,640
Because the jack guy on TikTok half the time doesn't always look like the jacked guy on

463
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:21,640
TikTok.

464
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:26,160
And you'll notice if the jack guy on TikTok is lean longterm, they're not getting bigger

465
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:27,200
in size.

466
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,200
They're keeping at best.

467
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:32,120
They are maintaining their size, right?

468
00:27:32,120 --> 00:27:36,920
And if they are getting bigger and they're saying that lean, what are they on?

469
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:38,360
Right?

470
00:27:38,360 --> 00:27:39,920
So you just kind of have to consider that.

471
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:44,840
And a lot of times the challenges is then they're doing these like, you know, the sponsored

472
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:49,360
posts that they don't put partnership and ad and all of that on.

473
00:27:49,360 --> 00:27:53,320
They're marketing these supplements that don't do anything and may actually increase the

474
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:57,120
risk for side effects or other issues from a cardiac standpoint.

475
00:27:57,120 --> 00:28:00,000
I mean, do you remember jacked the original pre-workout?

476
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:01,000
Vaguely.

477
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:02,000
Yes.

478
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:03,000
Yeah.

479
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,400
That one was a fun one.

480
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:09,840
Back in my day when I was in school, that took out about half of the frat boys at JMU

481
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,920
because they would just dry scoop three scoops of it.

482
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:14,800
And it ended up having illegal substance in it.

483
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,880
And that's why we can't find the original formula anymore, much to many people's dismay.

484
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,720
So yeah, you kind of have to look at that whole picture, but of course they're not mentioning

485
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:24,320
that on social media.

486
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:32,240
You just think that if I do X, Y, and Z training program, their diet and their supplement protocol,

487
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:33,880
I will look like that.

488
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:39,560
And if A, there's a genetic factor and B, you don't know what else they're doing.

489
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:44,980
So you're better off going with a professional who can help you with your goals, but also

490
00:28:44,980 --> 00:28:49,080
someone who's going to say, hey, it may or may not be possible for that, or it's going

491
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,840
to take you 10 years to get there.

492
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:55,160
I've had this conversation a lot with people.

493
00:28:55,160 --> 00:29:01,000
What was interesting being a man about 10 years ago onwards, so maybe let's say nine

494
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:05,080
because it was right before I heard Kurt Parsi talking about this.

495
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:11,160
If you even had a testosterone test as part of your blood panel, you would be shown the

496
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:14,960
scale and it would be, I forget, I see the one or 250 to 950.

497
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,080
And they'd be like, oh, you're 300, you're fine.

498
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:22,080
And there'd be no understanding that that scale was, the top of the scale was the 18

499
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:26,160
year old in the, it was one of the Ivy league school towns that they studied.

500
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:33,200
And the 250 was the 80 year old that was sedentary and one foot in the grave.

501
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:37,720
And so for the longest time, a lot of our responders are walking around with their testosterone

502
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:40,520
in the ground and no one was addressing it.

503
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:44,880
Then you had all these men's clinics start popping up and now they're prescribing TR

504
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:51,640
T to these 25, 30 year old first responders, not talking to them about diet, the sleep,

505
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:52,640
stress.

506
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,280
And then one thing that I actually take now is peptides.

507
00:29:55,280 --> 00:30:00,960
So that's a middle of the road one where you can just kind of provoke your body to make

508
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:02,320
a little bit more.

509
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:07,720
And again, as you can see, I am not gaining from it at all, but 14 years without sleep,

510
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:11,560
I knew that I wasn't quite where I needed to be as far as healing, as far as energy

511
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:12,560
levels.

512
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:14,800
So that was an excellent, they were talking about a 50 year old.

513
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,080
Now, not a 25 year old.

514
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:21,720
And then the TRT, I mean, that has so many side effects that you should only be on that

515
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:23,440
if that's your last resort.

516
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:28,120
You've had TBIs or you really are just unable to make your own at all.

517
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:32,240
But what really breaks my heart is the sleep deprivation that we're seeing in the fire

518
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:37,160
service, 56 hour weeks, 80 hour weeks with the mandatory overtime.

519
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,860
That is a reason why most of these people's hormones are completely disrupted.

520
00:30:40,860 --> 00:30:45,920
And yet there's such a resistance to actually giving our men and women more rest and recovery.

521
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:48,880
Yeah, no, I 100% agree.

522
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:54,760
I mean, and the TRT clinics, it's hard because it's like, oh, well, I'm going to a doctor,

523
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:58,880
but they're not looking at you as a whole picture.

524
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:02,600
They're kind of at the end of the day, they'll be like, yep, that's kind of on the low end.

525
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:04,680
So here you go.

526
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:08,440
That's not a whole picture of what's going on there.

527
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:13,160
Now, I do think that if you can, if you're a younger recruit, a younger first responder,

528
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:19,400
20, 25, even 30, maybe get your testosterone so you have a baseline, right?

529
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:25,600
Get that earlier in your career so that if you are, maybe you do just hang out at 300

530
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:29,480
and you feel fine, your libido is good, your energy level is good-ish.

531
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:32,200
Things are fine.

532
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:37,560
That way when you're in your 40s, 45 and it's at 300, you know where you're still at your

533
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:38,560
baseline, right?

534
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:44,640
You're just on the lower end compared to someone who was always at, I don't know, 800 and then

535
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:46,600
in their 40s they're at 300.

536
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:48,400
That plus symptoms could be an issue.

537
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:50,760
And I don't want to pretend like I'm an expert, right?

538
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:53,360
There are doctors who are way smarter than me in this.

539
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:57,640
But from my understanding from a lifestyle perspective where we're working on weight

540
00:31:57,640 --> 00:31:58,640
management, right?

541
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:00,840
We're reducing body fat if it's high.

542
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:03,760
High for men, we want to keep it under 25%.

543
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:08,960
High for women, we want to try and keep it under 32% for body fat percentage.

544
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:13,760
Heavy weight training, so like going to six reps and heavy weights is relative.

545
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:15,840
So that doesn't mean like, okay, I've got a bad shoulder.

546
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:17,560
I'm scared of doing heavy weights.

547
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:21,320
It's whatever you can tolerate, right?

548
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,400
And then what was the other one?

549
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:24,400
Sleep.

550
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:25,400
Sleep's the big one.

551
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:26,400
And it's hard.

552
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:31,720
Like you said, if you're like our shifts at the county I work at, it's horrible.

553
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:35,360
They're working the 56 hour work week, their middle days, they're barely getting any sleep

554
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:36,360
and they're commuting.

555
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:37,700
We have a lot of commuters.

556
00:32:37,700 --> 00:32:39,360
So that impacts their sleep as well.

557
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,680
So sleep is a huge factor and usually the first place that we want to work on if we're

558
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:46,560
trying to manage testosterone without all of the medication side.

559
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:47,560
Absolutely.

560
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,680
Well, you talked about the higher end of body fat just while we're on it.

561
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:52,400
What's the lower end of male and female?

562
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:56,920
I mean, obviously we're all a little bit different, but roughly what percentage should we be not

563
00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:59,280
going, should we not be going beneath?

564
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:00,280
Yeah.

565
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:05,880
I mean, so I'm sure you guys have heard, like there's always that really like lean guy who

566
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,400
could be on the count, the firefighter calendar at any point, but they just suck on the fire

567
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:10,400
ground.

568
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:11,400
Like they throw ladders terribly.

569
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:13,480
They're just not, they get winded.

570
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:15,800
They cannot tolerate it.

571
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:22,840
And I would say most of my firefighters, they come to me somewhere around 23 to 28, sometimes

572
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:24,400
higher percent body fat.

573
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:27,840
So like the higher normal higher it range.

574
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:33,080
And if we get them to around 18 to 21%, this is all anecdotal, I'm making this all up kind

575
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,680
of, they seem to feel pretty good.

576
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:40,120
They're leaner, their uniform pants feel good, their workouts feel good, their energy levels

577
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:42,580
pretty good.

578
00:33:42,580 --> 00:33:45,040
And they don't feel like they had to give everything up.

579
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:46,960
They can have a beer at their captain's retirement.

580
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:51,120
They can have a cupcake at their kid's birthday party and they're not freaking out about it.

581
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:54,920
Now there's always that my 50th birthday is in this year.

582
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,000
I want to see my lower abs.

583
00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:04,560
We're getting closer to that 10 to 15%, probably more to the 10 if you want to see your lower

584
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:05,760
abs.

585
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:11,280
That you're going to potentially see decrements in performance at that point.

586
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,120
And you're going to be restricted.

587
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:16,080
You are not potentially not having that beer at the retirement.

588
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:21,380
You are potentially eating half of a cupcake and kind of macroing it the rest of the day.

589
00:34:21,380 --> 00:34:26,120
So there's a great article and infographic from Precision Nutrition called The Cost of

590
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:27,120
Getting Lean.

591
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:31,400
And I highly recommend reading that if you are trying to get lean because there's a certain

592
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,980
point where the return on investment from an aesthetic standpoint doesn't really land

593
00:34:34,980 --> 00:34:37,260
from a performance standpoint.

594
00:34:37,260 --> 00:34:44,560
For women, women I do feel like their body fat ranges can like drastically depend.

595
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:49,460
Women need to carry more body fat so that we can carry babies, right?

596
00:34:49,460 --> 00:34:53,700
And that range for women is somewhere between 20 and 32%.

597
00:34:53,700 --> 00:34:57,660
But I have worked with women who have been overweight for most of their lives and really

598
00:34:57,660 --> 00:34:59,960
they feel best from a hormonal perspective.

599
00:34:59,960 --> 00:35:03,640
They have a regular cycle closer to 34%.

600
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:05,440
So we go with that.

601
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:10,040
But there are women kind of more like me where they've always been 18, 20%.

602
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:11,280
They've had a regular cycle.

603
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:12,740
They feel pretty good.

604
00:35:12,740 --> 00:35:15,600
And then when they're 25%, they're like, I feel huge.

605
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:17,700
So talking from personal experience, right?

606
00:35:17,700 --> 00:35:21,320
So it kind of is a little bit more variant there from the female perspective.

607
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:24,840
I think what's interesting with women as well as you've obviously got your apples and your

608
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:25,840
pears.

609
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:29,260
And so there was one girl I worked with years ago when I worked in summer camp.

610
00:35:29,260 --> 00:35:33,120
If she was sitting at this desk now, you think her body weight was perfect.

611
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:37,760
But from her hips, she just went out and I'm not, you know, talking, belittling her or

612
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:38,760
anything.

613
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:39,760
It's just a description of how she was.

614
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:40,760
That's just how she shaped.

615
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:41,760
Yeah.

616
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:43,000
So from like the navel down, it went out.

617
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:47,420
And so, you know, it's interesting that they say that's healthier because it's not around

618
00:35:47,420 --> 00:35:48,560
all the vital organs.

619
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:52,040
Whereas most of us men, we're going to be the apple, we're going to have it around the

620
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:53,040
belly.

621
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:56,520
So even where that fat is seems to change a little bit for the genders.

622
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:57,520
Yeah.

623
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:01,440
And I would recommend, so our county, we're very well funded, right?

624
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:06,120
I work full time and I'm a full time dietitian, full time strength coach, all of the, all

625
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:08,620
of the perpetual professionals you could have.

626
00:36:08,620 --> 00:36:09,620
We have in body scans.

627
00:36:09,620 --> 00:36:11,620
Are you familiar with the in body?

628
00:36:11,620 --> 00:36:12,620
Yeah, actually.

629
00:36:12,620 --> 00:36:14,760
I just did one the other day, funnily enough.

630
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:15,760
Perfect.

631
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:16,760
Okay.

632
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:19,540
So did you get visceral fat and all of that?

633
00:36:19,540 --> 00:36:23,400
This was the one when you say, you said a scan?

634
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:24,400
It's not a scan.

635
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:25,400
It's a body.

636
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:26,400
It's a scale.

637
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:27,400
That you stand on and hold the handles?

638
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:29,400
Technically you could call it a scan, but yeah, it's a scale.

639
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:30,400
Yeah.

640
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:31,400
But you're holding the handles.

641
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:32,400
You stand there and there's, yes.

642
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:33,400
Yeah.

643
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:34,400
Okay.

644
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:35,400
Yeah.

645
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:37,480
So I know, I mean, coming from sports science, I know how inaccurate they are.

646
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:38,800
And I also train bare feet.

647
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,480
So my feet were black from the rubber.

648
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:45,520
So I don't know how well it read, but I did give me a breakdown of supposedly what was

649
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,040
lean muscle mass and all the other things.

650
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:49,040
Sure.

651
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:50,040
Yeah.

652
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:53,520
So the in body scans, their bioelectrical impedance scales, scan scale.

653
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:58,600
I call it a scan because it's technically also bioelectrical impedance was just a, anyway,

654
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:00,180
words.

655
00:37:00,180 --> 00:37:02,240
These are higher level scales.

656
00:37:02,240 --> 00:37:06,240
They're like somewhere between three and $10,000, depending on which model you get.

657
00:37:06,240 --> 00:37:07,640
They do use them in research.

658
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,120
Are they perfect relative to DEXA?

659
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:11,120
No.

660
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:16,160
No, but they're better than the scales you're getting off of Amazon.

661
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:19,840
Now with bioelectrical impedance, you don't want to typically work out prior to, and you

662
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:23,000
don't want to usually eat before.

663
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:27,600
But I do tell people, like, for example, for me, when I use the InBody at Fairfax, I have

664
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:29,960
my smoothie and my coffee and then I get on it.

665
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:32,200
So every single time I have the same thing.

666
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:35,240
So try and keep it consistent.

667
00:37:35,240 --> 00:37:40,120
But those scales, actually for a lot of departments, they can get grant funding.

668
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:44,400
I can't tell you which grant, but grants will count that if you wanted to buy one for your

669
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:45,400
department.

670
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:51,400
And I think they have been integral in keeping my first responders consistent and on a plan

671
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:57,080
long term because you can get on the regular scale and it'll, like, your weight might stay

672
00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:59,120
the same no matter what you're doing.

673
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:03,760
But the cool thing about the InBodies, it'll tell us muscle mass, body fat percentage,

674
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:05,280
also visceral fat.

675
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:10,240
So that's usually a motivating factor for a lot of my first responders is the visceral

676
00:38:10,240 --> 00:38:12,640
fat so they can actually quantify that.

677
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:19,080
But I had a medic, she was getting her butt kicked, busy station, maybe two workouts a

678
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:22,880
week, her food, like we were kind of relying on convenience food just based off of her

679
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:24,760
schedule, just better choices, right?

680
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:29,320
And she lost 1% body fat over three months and she was kind of beating herself up about

681
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:30,560
that.

682
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:35,920
And that actually came out to about five pounds of body fat, which for someone who's not

683
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:40,500
doing backflips from a workout routine, eating everything perfect all the time, I think that's

684
00:38:40,500 --> 00:38:42,120
really good progress.

685
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:47,560
So because of the additional numbers on that scale, it keeps my first responders motivated.

686
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:51,440
I can kind of talk them off the ledge before they're like, you know, ready to jump because

687
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:53,280
they feel like they haven't made any progress.

688
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:57,920
Well, I mean, especially with men, you know, if you really, if you were an athlete and

689
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:02,280
then you've become deconditioned and then you get back into it, especially if you're

690
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:06,080
a larger frame man, you are actually going to create more muscle mass.

691
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:07,480
Your muscle is going to become denser.

692
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:14,120
So a regular scale, I could see how to be demotivated because the numbers weren't moving.

693
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:17,320
But actually, like you said, the ratio of fat to muscle was.

694
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:19,120
Yeah, exactly.

695
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:20,740
And they're really reasonable.

696
00:39:20,740 --> 00:39:23,120
I feel like they're relatively accurate.

697
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:26,000
Perfect, probably not, at least precise.

698
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:30,120
I've seen like I've had private clients do Renfro scales or the ones that you can get

699
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:31,120
on Amazon.

700
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:34,840
And like I had one girl who like from week to week, her muscle would jump from thirty

701
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:35,840
six to fifty six.

702
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:38,680
And I'm like, OK, like that.

703
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:39,680
That one's not right.

704
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:44,800
But it just and then it also helps my people who want to gain muscle, right?

705
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:48,920
The people who are actually actively trying to gain weight to see muscle gain.

706
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:52,160
We can see how much of that is fat and how much of that is muscle.

707
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:54,640
But also I have to tell them you're going to gain fat.

708
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:57,040
I don't care how clean your bulk is.

709
00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:02,160
You're going to gain fat if you're trying to maximize muscle gain.

710
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:06,720
With goals, when you work with people again, going back to the Instagram, going back to

711
00:40:06,720 --> 00:40:11,520
the infomercials, you know, going back to the television shows, The Biggest Loser, which

712
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:15,000
The Biggest Loser is usually the person who was in that show because they end up getting

713
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:16,800
it all back.

714
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:22,080
You know, that we set these ridiculous, unrealistic goals like it's a race to get to a certain

715
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:23,540
point.

716
00:40:23,540 --> 00:40:28,120
The older and more, you know, I guess the wiser I've got, the more I've shifted away

717
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:33,640
from one rep maxes and all those things and realized that there's a kind of 80 percent,

718
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:41,760
80 percentile, I guess you'd say, where you can continue to do incredibly well, but also,

719
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:42,760
you know, you enjoy it.

720
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:47,240
Like you said, you can have those treats on the side and you'll still get there.

721
00:40:47,240 --> 00:40:50,600
Whereas I feel like these races, you know, that's what creates this kind of roller coaster

722
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:53,720
ride of highs and lows, you know, failures and successes.

723
00:40:53,720 --> 00:40:59,040
So what's your kind of philosophy when someone says they want to get to a certain endpoint

724
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:02,240
on the time that you project for them to get there?

725
00:41:02,240 --> 00:41:07,080
Yeah, you're looking at five to six months for 20 pounds and that is not what they want.

726
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:09,120
They are like, I'm going on a cruise in two weeks.

727
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:10,120
Let's get 20 pounds off.

728
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:15,020
I'm like, no, you came to the wrong lady.

729
00:41:15,020 --> 00:41:21,880
So with that realistic goals, we're looking at 0.5 to one pound per week, which is two

730
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:23,280
to four pounds a month.

731
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:27,280
And no first responder wants to hear that because guess what's going to happen in January?

732
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:29,800
Everybody's going on my fitness pal on lose it.

733
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:33,980
They're going to say, do you want to lose 0.5 pounds a week, one pound a week, two pounds

734
00:41:33,980 --> 00:41:34,980
a week?

735
00:41:34,980 --> 00:41:35,980
And guess what?

736
00:41:35,980 --> 00:41:39,960
When everybody's clicking three, two, it wasn't even an option, but they're trying to find

737
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:40,960
it.

738
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:42,480
They pick two, they pick two pounds a week.

739
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:43,480
Well, guess what?

740
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:45,480
That's just your calories by a thousand.

741
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:51,280
So now I have a six foot firefighter on an 1800 calorie diet and that's not going to

742
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:55,920
be sustainable, especially if they're working out or they're at a busy station.

743
00:41:55,920 --> 00:42:02,560
And the other thing I have to factor in is when I work with Genpop or like day work chiefs,

744
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:07,600
light duty personnel where they have like regular, their days from an activity standpoint

745
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:09,320
look pretty similar.

746
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:11,180
They can do the same calories every day.

747
00:42:11,180 --> 00:42:15,560
So like they could do a 2000 calorie diet, whatever.

748
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:22,180
Still want to do a pound a week, but I may have to increase calories based off of shift

749
00:42:22,180 --> 00:42:29,840
days because if you're running 15 calls a day, that's a big, that's, that's adding significant

750
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:32,480
amount of physical activity and work, right?

751
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:33,980
You're burning a lot more calories.

752
00:42:33,980 --> 00:42:38,880
So you actually might need 2,500 on your workout days or your work days.

753
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:41,660
And then maybe, I don't know, 2000 on your off days.

754
00:42:41,660 --> 00:42:44,120
We kind of have to play with it.

755
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:49,320
I'm working on creating a calculator that would maybe do that for people, but I haven't

756
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:51,840
sat down and done it yet.

757
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:57,840
Talk to me about the impact of sleep deprivation, of these shifts on the ability to even lose

758
00:42:57,840 --> 00:42:59,960
weight or gain weight.

759
00:42:59,960 --> 00:43:00,960
Yeah.

760
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:07,080
So, um, one night of bad sleep leads to a 24% increase in hunger due to a shift in your

761
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:08,680
hunger hormones.

762
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:16,280
So we see an 18% decrease in leptin, the hunger suppressing hormone, and a 28% increase in

763
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:19,180
ghrelin, the hunger stimulating hormone.

764
00:43:19,180 --> 00:43:24,240
So the foods that you want the next day are fatty, sugary, you know, just crap foods,

765
00:43:24,240 --> 00:43:25,240
right?

766
00:43:25,240 --> 00:43:29,560
Now imagine doing that for years on end, right?

767
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:32,880
So it impacts your hunger, right?

768
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:35,760
It impacts your food choices the next day.

769
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:40,720
It can also, I think there's a 40% decrease in glucose tolerance, so it can start shifting

770
00:43:40,720 --> 00:43:48,080
you towards, um, insulin, uh, what's the word, resistance and metabolic syndrome potentially

771
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:49,560
later in the career.

772
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:55,920
So literally the sleep deprivation is, is working against you, um, in a multi-factorial

773
00:43:55,920 --> 00:44:00,880
way, not only in your metabolism and how things are working inside the body, but also from

774
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:05,360
like an environmental standpoint and like food choices standpoint.

775
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:09,160
I heard Doc Parsley talking about this years ago before I even started my podcast and,

776
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:10,480
uh, he basically described it.

777
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:13,120
He's like, you know, the cops are known for having coffee and donuts.

778
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:16,840
He goes, that's because physiologically that's what they crave because of the leptin and

779
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:17,840
the ghrelin.

780
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:20,760
And as you mentioned, the impact on their pancreas and, you know, I mean, I think a

781
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:26,320
lot, if you, if you, uh, um, I'm trying to say, if you actually test the blood sugar,

782
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:31,360
I think they literally with 24 hours, um, without sleep, you're pre-diabetic usually,

783
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:33,240
even if your blood sugar was good the day before.

784
00:44:33,240 --> 00:44:38,160
Now obviously that can be reversed, but again, as you mentioned now times that by thousands

785
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:41,880
of shifts and you know, we wonder why our first responders get fatter and fatter and

786
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:47,480
fatter and you know, the, the bunk room is full of, you know, statins and hypertensive

787
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:51,840
meds and CPAPs because it does have an impact on people's health.

788
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:52,840
Mm hmm.

789
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:53,840
Mm hmm.

790
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:57,760
Well, and you kind of have to look at it overall because I feel like, have you noticed like

791
00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:01,400
when you go to conferences, like wellness conferences for first responders, they have

792
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:05,640
like a fitness person and maybe a mental health and maybe a sleep person, but then it's like,

793
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:10,760
they all have a slide and it's like, you need to do nutrition and it's just one slide, you

794
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:13,300
know, and it's like, just eat better.

795
00:45:13,300 --> 00:45:16,720
And it's like, but how?

796
00:45:16,720 --> 00:45:22,220
Um, and I feel like when you look at, you zoom back and we look at the fire service,

797
00:45:22,220 --> 00:45:26,560
you guys are often asked to get to a second story window without a ladder from a health

798
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:28,560
perspective, right?

799
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:33,240
Um, you are, I don't know if you remember the engine two diet where it was a low fat

800
00:45:33,240 --> 00:45:36,680
vegan diet, which I don't know if you've read the room from a fire service perspective,

801
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:39,720
but at least on the East coast, we are a meat and potatoes kind of people.

802
00:45:39,720 --> 00:45:41,320
I had rip on the show.

803
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:42,320
Yeah.

804
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:43,320
Yeah.

805
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:45,580
And I, listen, I respect them and I think it's a great diet and it's something that

806
00:45:45,580 --> 00:45:47,320
could work very well for some people.

807
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:52,280
But I also want to say that like, we kind of have to read the room, right?

808
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:57,200
And the people we are targeting from a health perspective in the fire service are the bottom

809
00:45:57,200 --> 00:45:59,060
two thirds, right?

810
00:45:59,060 --> 00:46:00,840
The bottom third is struggling.

811
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:01,900
They're getting divorced.

812
00:46:01,900 --> 00:46:03,640
There's mental health challenges.

813
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:09,520
Um, you know, they, they feel like they're just surviving right now.

814
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:12,880
And then the middle third is like kind of ready for change, but they still have a lot

815
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:13,880
going on.

816
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:17,080
And the top third is like, they're getting on the calendar next week.

817
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:18,080
You know, they look great.

818
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:19,080
They're in great shape.

819
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:22,240
We're not targeting those people who want the next 3%.

820
00:46:22,240 --> 00:46:26,440
We are trying to get the people who are going to have that cardiac event on the fireground,

821
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:27,440
right?

822
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:29,600
Who are going to have a higher risk for cancer.

823
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:31,840
Those people are the people we're targeting.

824
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:38,600
So what that means is I like to look at the fire service as you guys are asked to perform

825
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:42,960
at 110% at every single call, right?

826
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:46,680
Which relative to the general population, that's a much higher standard.

827
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:51,960
And then you're asking to, you're starting at a lower foundation and that lower foundation

828
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:55,720
is sleep deprivation, um, exposure to trauma.

829
00:46:55,720 --> 00:46:58,240
That impacts your food choices as well.

830
00:46:58,240 --> 00:47:01,480
High stress, family issues, all of those things.

831
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:05,280
So again, it's almost like trying to scale to that second story window.

832
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:10,560
And if you don't give someone those rungs on the ladder to get them up towards that,

833
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:14,480
that's taking the textbook and actually breaking it down to where the person sitting in front

834
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:17,000
of you is, they're going to struggle.

835
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:21,480
So while a vegan or a vegetarian diet can be a phenomenal diet for improving the fire

836
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:26,960
services health, it's also not always meeting them where they are at currently.

837
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:28,680
See, it's interesting.

838
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:33,800
I've had this conversation so many times and I had a realization just very, very recently

839
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:40,120
that we are nearly always talking about stopping firefighters from dying.

840
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:43,840
But if you look at other professions and I had a lot of special forces people on here

841
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:48,800
and you know, a lot of high performers in the sporting side, they're looking at human

842
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:49,800
performance.

843
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:55,480
And whilst the Delta guys are talking about eating for maximal performance, endurance

844
00:47:55,480 --> 00:48:00,800
and longevity and whatever the other elements are, we're just trying to stop our firefighters

845
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:05,600
from dying from heart disease and cancer and getting them so they're not morbidly obese.

846
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:07,600
And we're so far from where we should be.

847
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:08,600
And it's the same with the exercise.

848
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:12,600
Or we'll just get them walking around the station, just get them getting their steps.

849
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:17,640
Yeah, but the goal is to them to be able to climb 20 stories with a hundred pounds on

850
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:22,040
their back because that's what you need to go fight a high rise fire and then go to work.

851
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:24,960
But we're so far from nutrition for performance.

852
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:29,320
We're just talking, you know, and we're obviously going to expand into performance as well.

853
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:33,600
But the general conversation is just the bar has got lower and lower and lower.

854
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:40,640
And we even had a local kind of sports performance place when I worked in my last place and they

855
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:42,880
would come and give us talks.

856
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:49,280
The last one, and I was actually teaching and doing coaching with my peers, not as part

857
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:50,560
of this group.

858
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:55,440
And the last young lady that came, she taught them how to make oatmeal and they walked around

859
00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:57,800
the fire station twice.

860
00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:00,160
And I'm like, that's it.

861
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:02,360
That's what you think that firefighters need.

862
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:07,880
Another person gave us a great class on sleep and said, you need to sleep more.

863
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:11,360
And like you said, it's like the nutrition slide, you need to eat well.

864
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:13,760
Yeah, well then what are the solutions?

865
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:18,920
And then the solution in the fire service is 24 72 for the sleep side to improve it.

866
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:21,260
It's still not perfect, but it's a lot better.

867
00:49:21,260 --> 00:49:26,200
And then with the conversation on exercise and nutrition, we should be thinking about

868
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:31,560
how do you make a paramedic and a firefighter be able to operate at the highest level rather

869
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:33,880
than talking about stopping them dying.

870
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:35,040
But that's where we're at.

871
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:39,840
We are literally just trying to stop our young men and women being put in the ground with

872
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:41,200
a flag around their coffin.

873
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:46,160
There's so far from where we should actually be talking, which is forging elite performance

874
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:48,640
in the tactical professions.

875
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:53,920
Right and here, and I am going to have to argue a little bit there because I'm trying

876
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:59,400
to say like the bottom rung is the starting point, but that's not the ending point.

877
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:06,960
You need to have people in place to hold your people accountable, which is why I feel like,

878
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:09,280
so I work for Fairfax County Fire and Police, right?

879
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:14,240
I am an embedded civilian dietician who specializes in first responders.

880
00:50:14,240 --> 00:50:18,220
So what I start someone with, I can then get them to the next level.

881
00:50:18,220 --> 00:50:23,040
But what a lot of times is happening is you get those two dichotomies.

882
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:26,040
And honestly, you'd probably be very disappointed with a lot of my presentations because they're

883
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:27,200
exactly that.

884
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:29,280
What's healthier frozen food, healthier fast food?

885
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:30,400
What do I pack in a go bag?

886
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:32,000
How do I get a little bit more water in?

887
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:36,120
Maybe it's including some sort of meal or something to get them to drink more.

888
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:39,320
That's a starting point to meet most of the people.

889
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:43,580
But if you want to get those people from the bottom to the next level, you probably need

890
00:50:43,580 --> 00:50:49,480
someone embedded or bring someone on a regular basis to then, okay, we talked about X last

891
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:51,560
time, here's the next rung.

892
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:54,120
And then we talked about that and then here's the next rung.

893
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:56,680
That's how you're going to get them to that top level performance.

894
00:50:56,680 --> 00:51:03,160
Because the problem is, and I do 16 to 20, and that's scaled back since I've had a baby,

895
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:08,240
but a good amount of coaching every single week, 16 to 21st responders, and they are

896
00:51:08,240 --> 00:51:13,040
stuck and you don't get someone stuck by just saying, you just need to perform better because

897
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:14,420
that's how the job is.

898
00:51:14,420 --> 00:51:16,440
We have to do it incrementally.

899
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:17,880
So hopefully that makes sense.

900
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:18,880
Yeah.

901
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:19,880
And you're not arguing at all.

902
00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:20,880
I mean, I agree completely.

903
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:23,600
Where we are is where you have to start.

904
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:28,640
But I always tell people, look at the ocean lifeguards in Southern California.

905
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:31,160
You go there and like, oh, we're going to work on your body composition.

906
00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:33,480
You look and it's all abs and deltoids.

907
00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:35,080
Yeah, you have to work on that.

908
00:51:35,080 --> 00:51:36,080
Yeah, exactly.

909
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:37,440
I don't need to have that conversation.

910
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:41,040
In the fire service, we do because that's where we've devolved to.

911
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:46,320
And if you look at our forefathers in the 70s and 80s, they were doing the firefighter

912
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:49,600
Olympics and they looked like they were in good shape.

913
00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:50,600
Were they wearing SCBAs?

914
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:51,600
No.

915
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:55,040
And we learned from all those deaths that we should probably not be breathing the air.

916
00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:58,880
But culturally, they were moving and they were playing well and they were eating a lot

917
00:51:58,880 --> 00:51:59,880
better.

918
00:51:59,880 --> 00:52:04,200
And so we have had this devolution and I think this is the conversation we need to have.

919
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:09,160
If our dieticians have to come in and hold our hand while we walk around a building and

920
00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:14,120
then see if we have more water in our food, we're so far from where we need to be.

921
00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:15,120
It's okay.

922
00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:16,520
We can get back to where we should be.

923
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:21,800
But let that be what it is, a giant red flag to the ill health in our profession at the

924
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:22,800
moment.

925
00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:23,800
Yeah.

926
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:24,800
But there's a huge gap too.

927
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:27,840
I mean, how many dieticians do you know that specialize in first responders?

928
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:31,800
I mean, I know like five.

929
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:33,160
It's a personality challenge.

930
00:52:33,160 --> 00:52:37,080
Like I said, you can't get a clinical dietician to come out and talk to firefighters.

931
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:38,080
They don't curse enough.

932
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:39,680
They don't know how to joke around.

933
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:43,800
They're sticking the mud and they come out and tell them to chop bell peppers for three

934
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:46,600
hours to make dinner and it's not.

935
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:49,780
They don't understand the sleep deprivation, the exposure to trauma and all of that.

936
00:52:49,780 --> 00:52:54,400
So it is going to be an incremental approach.

937
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:59,480
It is challenging though because like if I go out to Phoenix or Cal Fire and I go out

938
00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:05,720
with the same approach that I have for the East Coast, I've learned I need to level it

939
00:53:05,720 --> 00:53:10,760
up a little when I go out to that side of the country because I do feel there is certainly

940
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:15,360
a little bit of a higher level understanding about nutrition and the value of it.

941
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:18,800
Sometimes I'm actually trying to pull them back to reality a little bit.

942
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:26,840
But like I said, having an embedded professional or bringing a professional once a year, quarterly,

943
00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:31,640
can really help pull your department up to where it needs to be because it does have

944
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:32,720
to be regular.

945
00:53:32,720 --> 00:53:36,060
Otherwise you're going to just keep having the same conversation of I need you to take

946
00:53:36,060 --> 00:53:41,300
a walk around the station every January and then they're still in the same place.

947
00:53:41,300 --> 00:53:45,600
You've got to be able to pull them up and hold them accountable.

948
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:52,400
We can hold you accountable but also be empathetic.

949
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:56,000
This is another thing that I just don't understand is why we don't have fitness standards to

950
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:59,760
hold us accountable because at the front door, no one can say it's not fair.

951
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:04,160
At the front door, we are held to a certain standard in Fire Academy and it's a good standard.

952
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:06,320
I would argue it's a great standard.

953
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:09,680
But we call it minimum standards when we get our certificate here.

954
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:14,040
But then you go into the profession and like, oh yeah, no, what if they take our jobs?

955
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:15,040
That's not fair.

956
00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:18,720
I mean, those guys, we're here for the people.

957
00:54:18,720 --> 00:54:23,000
If you'd actually set that at the front door, that expectation, we wouldn't have the obesity

958
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:24,000
that we have now.

959
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:25,960
We wouldn't have the heart disease and some of the other things.

960
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:28,720
You'd have it but it wouldn't be anywhere near as prominent.

961
00:54:28,720 --> 00:54:32,640
I saw it because culturally out west, I worked for Anaheim for a few years.

962
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:36,360
They didn't need fitness standards because most of us worked out and I can count on one

963
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:40,000
hand how many people were overweight in that department.

964
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:43,280
But we don't have that philosophy anymore.

965
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:46,740
The goal is to not have a fitness standard and have a bunch of people that are accountable

966
00:54:46,740 --> 00:54:53,880
and driven and have ownership and to be very, very fair, an environment that forces that

967
00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:57,320
as well, not one that breaks them down like it is at the moment.

968
00:54:57,320 --> 00:55:02,160
But in the meantime, putting a fitness standard in, that obviously there would be an on ramp

969
00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:06,180
to get people, give them a couple of years to get back to where they need to be.

970
00:55:06,180 --> 00:55:10,920
But holding that line, because that's not just the ability for us to do our job and

971
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:15,080
protect the public, it then forges a healthy retirement.

972
00:55:15,080 --> 00:55:17,280
It increases their longevity.

973
00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:22,040
So we do a massive disservice to our own people with this opposition to fitness standards.

974
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:23,040
Yeah.

975
00:55:23,040 --> 00:55:27,920
Well, so in Fairfax, we have them.

976
00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:33,240
You should probably bring Jake Patton, our strength coach for the fireside.

977
00:55:33,240 --> 00:55:35,440
He instituted the fitness standard.

978
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:40,680
It is a mandatory, non-punitive fitness standard.

979
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:46,720
Basically they, I think I want to say 2017, 2018, he had them start doing a fitness test

980
00:55:46,720 --> 00:55:53,560
at the physical and it is based off of gender and age, the standards, and it's pull-ups,

981
00:55:53,560 --> 00:56:00,640
push-ups, sit-ups, and a VO2-correlated step test, VO2 max correlated step test.

982
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:02,040
Is it a perfect standard?

983
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:04,600
No, I don't think we're going to get a perfect standard.

984
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:06,320
It's the best that we can do.

985
00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:10,100
So they had them do it for about three years and then in 2021, which is actually when they

986
00:56:10,100 --> 00:56:14,280
brought me on, they started making it mandatory, non-punitive.

987
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:21,160
So if you failed the fitness test, you would go on a light station, FIP, which you had

988
00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:23,480
to pass that test again in two months.

989
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:29,360
And if you failed the fitness test plus failed the treadmill, you get pulled to light duty,

990
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:34,120
which you can, that went down like a fat kid on a seesaw, as you can imagine with the people

991
00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:37,480
who got, so we had four people pulled.

992
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:41,440
And the goal was to get them back to duty and within, I think it was nine months, it

993
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:43,400
might've been 11 months.

994
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:48,600
So yeah, so it's been a mixed bag.

995
00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:54,960
We are seeing improvements in body data, body composition, performance, that kind of thing.

996
00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:59,320
But then you're also dealing with a department that's kind of rioting.

997
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:05,080
And there have been some very heavily charged conversations, Jake can attest to, about people

998
00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:06,440
not wanting to do them.

999
00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:11,800
But here's the thing, we are trying to prevent that 45% of line of duty deaths related to

1000
00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:13,360
a sudden cardiac event.

1001
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:19,240
We're trying to prevent dying or having some sort of issue three years after retirement.

1002
00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:24,640
We're trying to make sure you get to maximize the county pension, right?

1003
00:57:24,640 --> 00:57:29,680
But at the same time, when you're asking someone to do a fitness test that should feel, it

1004
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:31,920
shouldn't be that, it's not that hard of a fitness test.

1005
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:32,920
I did it.

1006
00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:35,920
I'm a civilian, right?

1007
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:42,600
But there are people who are really stuck and that fitness test is jumping through hoops

1008
00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:43,600
for them.

1009
00:57:43,600 --> 00:57:45,520
It's a hard place to be in, is what I'm saying.

1010
00:57:45,520 --> 00:57:46,520
Yeah.

1011
00:57:46,520 --> 00:57:48,800
But I mean, really it boils down to the fact that are you ready to do the job?

1012
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:52,000
If you can't even do pull-ups, push-ups and do some steps, then how the hell are you going

1013
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:53,760
to carry a hundred pounds up 20 floors?

1014
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:55,640
I mean, that's just the reality.

1015
00:57:55,640 --> 00:57:56,640
So it's fine.

1016
00:57:56,640 --> 00:58:00,680
That's why fire prevention was invented for people who can't be firefighters anymore.

1017
00:58:00,680 --> 00:58:03,280
That sounds very mean, but it's true.

1018
00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:07,760
If I found out my son died because the person who was supposed to be rescued and tapped

1019
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:11,160
out on the third floor because they were too tired because someone didn't hold them to

1020
00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:14,360
a standard, I would throw them out the fucking window.

1021
00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:15,360
You know what I mean?

1022
00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:16,360
It's just that simple.

1023
00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:19,760
So to put someone in uniform that can't do the job, that's where the line is.

1024
00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:22,160
And I'm sorry, I don't care about your pension or your benefits.

1025
00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:26,400
If you can't and you're not willing to put the effort in, then you need to go to a different

1026
00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:29,480
department because this job is only for people that can do it.

1027
00:58:29,480 --> 00:58:32,520
And that's why it should be well paid and they should be given the rest and recovery.

1028
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:33,920
They deserve.

1029
00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:40,840
But to fight against fitness standards, I find it fucking nauseating and it's cowardice.

1030
00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:47,160
And we've had fit people fight against the standard, which is even more confusing.

1031
00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:51,680
But again, it's holding them to a standard that they signed up for.

1032
00:58:51,680 --> 00:58:54,360
Do I think there are maybe better ways we could have gone about it?

1033
00:58:54,360 --> 00:58:55,360
Sure.

1034
00:58:55,360 --> 00:59:00,200
But at the same time, we just had to execute it.

1035
00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:01,240
We had to put it in place.

1036
00:59:01,240 --> 00:59:04,960
And our department has so many resources in place.

1037
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:09,840
Full-time dietitian, four full-time strength coaches, seven behavioral health clinicians

1038
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:15,280
that you can get therapy, not just three times, as many therapies as you want.

1039
00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:19,360
Full occupational health clinic, an athletic trainer and a physical therapist.

1040
00:59:19,360 --> 00:59:22,600
Name a department that has a better wellness program.

1041
00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:23,600
You won't.

1042
00:59:23,600 --> 00:59:24,600
Yep, exactly.

1043
00:59:24,600 --> 00:59:25,600
Exactly.

1044
00:59:25,600 --> 00:59:27,160
And I think this is just it.

1045
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:31,000
We just have to... It's going to be an uncomfortable conversation.

1046
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:32,840
I'm finding it now with the work week.

1047
00:59:32,840 --> 00:59:37,280
Even the firefighters are pushing against getting more time off, getting time with their family

1048
00:59:37,280 --> 00:59:42,080
because they're so beaten down and brainwashed that they can't even think critically.

1049
00:59:42,080 --> 00:59:43,760
So it's the same with this.

1050
00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:47,720
If you were held to a standard at a fire academy, we went to a fire academy, oh, I don't want

1051
00:59:47,720 --> 00:59:50,520
to do the PT, it's hard.

1052
00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:52,080
Then how would that work out for you?

1053
00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:53,080
Why are you here?

1054
00:59:53,080 --> 00:59:54,080
Yeah, exactly.

1055
00:59:54,080 --> 00:59:57,400
It doesn't change 15, 20 years later.

1056
00:59:57,400 --> 01:00:03,120
I transitioned out six years ago, but I did the CPAT about three years ago, I think it

1057
01:00:03,120 --> 01:00:07,200
was three or four years ago because I was thinking I might have to go back because my

1058
01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:11,560
money was running out because I cashed out my pension just to do this full time and did

1059
01:00:11,560 --> 01:00:14,340
the CPAT in seven minutes, 20 seconds.

1060
01:00:14,340 --> 01:00:19,880
So if my old skinny ass can do it in 720, then... And you're crying because you think

1061
01:00:19,880 --> 01:00:20,880
the 1020 is too hard?

1062
01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:22,880
And I know you did the CPAT, didn't you?

1063
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:23,880
It was on your list.

1064
01:00:23,880 --> 01:00:24,880
Yes, I did.

1065
01:00:24,880 --> 01:00:27,560
Now, do I think I can do it six months postpartum?

1066
01:00:27,560 --> 01:00:29,320
I don't think I can do it.

1067
01:00:29,320 --> 01:00:30,320
But you did it.

1068
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:31,320
I did it.

1069
01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:33,400
You did the thing that people say is too hard and it's not fair.

1070
01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:34,400
So there we go.

1071
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:35,400
And I'm a civilian.

1072
01:00:35,400 --> 01:00:36,400
Yes.

1073
01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:39,400
Well, yeah, it took me three times.

1074
01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:44,720
I could get through it, but I wasn't very fast, which is par for the course for me.

1075
01:00:44,720 --> 01:00:49,160
So yeah, and again, civilian, civilian female too.

1076
01:00:49,160 --> 01:00:51,520
I mean, how many civilian females do you really see pass?

1077
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:53,180
Well, think about this.

1078
01:00:53,180 --> 01:00:54,820
So someone would say that's not fair.

1079
01:00:54,820 --> 01:00:59,440
So wait a second, you're saying it's not fair that you climb and Cumbered and then you use

1080
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:04,120
the forcible entry prop and you carry tools and you drag a mannequin, you advance hose.

1081
01:01:04,120 --> 01:01:08,060
You're saying that's not fair to be tested on those things as a firefighter.

1082
01:01:08,060 --> 01:01:09,060
So this is the thing.

1083
01:01:09,060 --> 01:01:10,540
This is why I think that should be the standard.

1084
01:01:10,540 --> 01:01:17,600
The fire sled or the CPAT, they are operational tools, operational skills that we have to

1085
01:01:17,600 --> 01:01:21,440
do, male, female, black, white, gay, straight, whoever you are, we have to be able to do

1086
01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:22,500
those things.

1087
01:01:22,500 --> 01:01:24,560
So to then turn around and say, it's not fair.

1088
01:01:24,560 --> 01:01:27,500
It's like, yeah, it's not fair that you're in this uniform right now.

1089
01:01:27,500 --> 01:01:28,980
If you are whining about this.

1090
01:01:28,980 --> 01:01:33,160
So it's an uncomfortable, unpopular conversation.

1091
01:01:33,160 --> 01:01:37,240
But if you take a step back and say, it's not fair that I have to do the thing that

1092
01:01:37,240 --> 01:01:40,600
I'm paid for, maybe it's time to look in the mirror.

1093
01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:41,600
Absolutely.

1094
01:01:41,600 --> 01:01:44,200
I mean, I know Montgomery County, I have friends there.

1095
01:01:44,200 --> 01:01:51,000
They make their cadre for the Academy, their fitness cadre, redo the CPAT, I think every

1096
01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:52,000
year.

1097
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:53,000
So they have to test into it.

1098
01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:54,000
So, which they're all in.

1099
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:55,000
It's not that hard.

1100
01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:56,000
This is the thing.

1101
01:01:56,000 --> 01:02:03,000
It's not like you're asking someone to deadlift a thousand pounds and run a triathlon.

1102
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:06,720
You're just doing some stairs, dragging some stuff around and that's it.

1103
01:02:06,720 --> 01:02:07,720
So yeah.

1104
01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:10,320
Well, I do think there needs to be resources in place, right?

1105
01:02:10,320 --> 01:02:16,380
Because especially I can tell you coming from a female's perspective postpartum, we used

1106
01:02:16,380 --> 01:02:20,980
to have it so like there was situations where we had females coming in two months postpartum

1107
01:02:20,980 --> 01:02:23,200
and having to do the work performance.

1108
01:02:23,200 --> 01:02:26,640
And I can tell you right now, nothing feels right.

1109
01:02:26,640 --> 01:02:31,560
Like you need people in place in order to get people who get injured back to that level

1110
01:02:31,560 --> 01:02:32,560
of fitness, right?

1111
01:02:32,560 --> 01:02:33,560
Absolutely.

1112
01:02:33,560 --> 01:02:37,320
So like a bit of major back surgery, major back injury, having babies.

1113
01:02:37,320 --> 01:02:42,880
I mean, literally your whole bottom half is just ruined.

1114
01:02:42,880 --> 01:02:45,200
Your core doesn't have the power anymore.

1115
01:02:45,200 --> 01:02:48,840
I remember doing a workout four weeks postpartum, which I probably shouldn't have done.

1116
01:02:48,840 --> 01:02:51,560
And I was like, oh no, something's going to...

1117
01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:53,600
Because your ligaments are a loser too, aren't they?

1118
01:02:53,600 --> 01:02:54,600
Oh God.

1119
01:02:54,600 --> 01:02:56,400
I was like, I think there might be organs coming out.

1120
01:02:56,400 --> 01:02:57,400
I don't know.

1121
01:02:57,400 --> 01:03:01,440
Like it's a blunt and like men don't like hearing all of that.

1122
01:03:01,440 --> 01:03:07,260
But like there are still counties who are requiring women to come back two months after

1123
01:03:07,260 --> 01:03:08,680
having a C-section.

1124
01:03:08,680 --> 01:03:09,800
It's insane.

1125
01:03:09,800 --> 01:03:11,820
It's not physically possible.

1126
01:03:11,820 --> 01:03:13,920
But then babying the guys who get the back injury.

1127
01:03:13,920 --> 01:03:20,560
So I do believe that we do need the fitness standard, but we also need the professionals

1128
01:03:20,560 --> 01:03:25,600
to make sure people don't keep getting injured and actually progress them appropriately to

1129
01:03:25,600 --> 01:03:27,080
get back to doing the things.

1130
01:03:27,080 --> 01:03:28,080
100%.

1131
01:03:28,080 --> 01:03:29,080
Yeah.

1132
01:03:29,080 --> 01:03:30,720
Like I said, it's ownership and it's environment.

1133
01:03:30,720 --> 01:03:32,600
And we have one or the other conversation.

1134
01:03:32,600 --> 01:03:33,600
It's not as both.

1135
01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:37,920
Like at the moment I do a free class every week and it's supposed to be for local first

1136
01:03:37,920 --> 01:03:40,240
responders and I hardly get any of them.

1137
01:03:40,240 --> 01:03:45,480
The problem is that the county where I live, they work 56 hours a week.

1138
01:03:45,480 --> 01:03:48,080
They get mandatory constantly.

1139
01:03:48,080 --> 01:03:53,060
So the last place I would want to go to after an 80 hour work week is go work out with James

1140
01:03:53,060 --> 01:03:55,400
Gearing at five o'clock on a Monday.

1141
01:03:55,400 --> 01:03:57,300
So I totally understand it.

1142
01:03:57,300 --> 01:03:58,300
You change that.

1143
01:03:58,300 --> 01:04:00,080
You get a department fully staffed.

1144
01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:03,360
You give them a 42 hour work week, 24 72.

1145
01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:08,360
Now you're going to see people a lot more apt to own what they eat, to attend fitness

1146
01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:10,760
classes, jujitsu, whatever their thing is.

1147
01:04:10,760 --> 01:04:15,640
So by freeing up that time and showing your men and women that you care about them and

1148
01:04:15,640 --> 01:04:21,400
you're given an environment for them to thrive in, that's a massive part of the ownership

1149
01:04:21,400 --> 01:04:22,400
conversation.

1150
01:04:22,400 --> 01:04:26,800
If then you're still not working out and you think the CPAT is unfair, okay, well then

1151
01:04:26,800 --> 01:04:29,400
we need to have a conversation, don't we?

1152
01:04:29,400 --> 01:04:31,200
I agree.

1153
01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:32,200
All right.

1154
01:04:32,200 --> 01:04:36,840
Well, you mentioned, well, we mentioned caffeine a lot earlier.

1155
01:04:36,840 --> 01:04:40,240
Talk to me about what you've observed as far as caffeine consumption.

1156
01:04:40,240 --> 01:04:44,480
It could even be coffee, but certainly the energy drinks that are banging around everywhere

1157
01:04:44,480 --> 01:04:45,480
at the moment.

1158
01:04:45,480 --> 01:04:46,480
Yeah, I know.

1159
01:04:46,480 --> 01:04:47,480
It's my favorite conversation.

1160
01:04:47,480 --> 01:04:49,920
And I think people think I'm anti caffeine.

1161
01:04:49,920 --> 01:04:51,080
I'm not anti caffeine.

1162
01:04:51,080 --> 01:04:53,120
I mean, I'm drinking coffee right now.

1163
01:04:53,120 --> 01:04:57,640
Well, I have to stop because it's two o'clock and that's going to make my bedtime weird.

1164
01:04:57,640 --> 01:05:02,000
But in any case, I would be a really bad first responder dietitian if I came out and told

1165
01:05:02,000 --> 01:05:04,780
you guys to cut out coffee and caffeine entirely, right?

1166
01:05:04,780 --> 01:05:07,640
You would set me on fire and not put me out.

1167
01:05:07,640 --> 01:05:13,560
So I go based off of the FDA recommendation of 400 milligrams for healthy individuals,

1168
01:05:13,560 --> 01:05:14,720
right?

1169
01:05:14,720 --> 01:05:15,920
It's a tool for performance.

1170
01:05:15,920 --> 01:05:20,120
Like caffeine, we have evidence to support that it helps with physical performance and

1171
01:05:20,120 --> 01:05:22,100
mental performance, right?

1172
01:05:22,100 --> 01:05:23,840
If done in the correct doses.

1173
01:05:23,840 --> 01:05:27,280
Now, on the police side, you have to be a little careful with it because from a shooting

1174
01:05:27,280 --> 01:05:31,200
standpoint it can mess with accuracy.

1175
01:05:31,200 --> 01:05:37,540
But the challenge that I'm seeing is it's like firefighters are not drinking caffeine

1176
01:05:37,540 --> 01:05:40,480
just for the performance and the wake up ease.

1177
01:05:40,480 --> 01:05:42,860
They are like living off of it.

1178
01:05:42,860 --> 01:05:48,240
That is the only thing that they're drinking is coffee throughout the day and energy drink

1179
01:05:48,240 --> 01:05:53,200
at the EMS room, especially if they're free at the EMS room, which whoever's stocking

1180
01:05:53,200 --> 01:05:55,520
those you're on my list.

1181
01:05:55,520 --> 01:05:58,960
But yeah, I mean, it comes down to the amount.

1182
01:05:58,960 --> 01:06:04,560
I've seen as high as 2,600 milligrams of caffeine in a day and you're going to have trouble

1183
01:06:04,560 --> 01:06:05,760
sleeping.

1184
01:06:05,760 --> 01:06:11,580
You're probably going to have issues potentially with anxiety, possibly with acid reflux because

1185
01:06:11,580 --> 01:06:16,400
caffeine actually lowers the pressure of that lower esophageal sphincter, which then allows

1186
01:06:16,400 --> 01:06:19,860
for acid to kind of come back up in the throat.

1187
01:06:19,860 --> 01:06:22,580
So there's a lot of issues with overdoing caffeine.

1188
01:06:22,580 --> 01:06:27,180
So we have to talk about like reasonable purchase to make sure that we don't overdo it.

1189
01:06:27,180 --> 01:06:31,360
So most of these energy drinks, they have 300 milligrams in one can.

1190
01:06:31,360 --> 01:06:32,840
Have I got that right?

1191
01:06:32,840 --> 01:06:33,840
Yep.

1192
01:06:33,840 --> 01:06:38,320
And I think they're starting to like the pre workouts, like I was offered a 450 milligram

1193
01:06:38,320 --> 01:06:40,080
pre workout when I was doing it.

1194
01:06:40,080 --> 01:06:42,360
In the back alley with the guy with the trench coat.

1195
01:06:42,360 --> 01:06:45,320
I was pregnant and it was at a station.

1196
01:06:45,320 --> 01:06:46,960
Like what are we doing?

1197
01:06:46,960 --> 01:06:47,960
Like what?

1198
01:06:47,960 --> 01:06:53,180
Well, I don't understand that too, because again, if you are something, because you see

1199
01:06:53,180 --> 01:06:54,880
it a lot with the younger guys too.

1200
01:06:54,880 --> 01:07:01,900
If you're 18 years old, you are tearing the hinges off doors to do anything, whether it's

1201
01:07:01,900 --> 01:07:03,260
see girls or whatever.

1202
01:07:03,260 --> 01:07:08,160
The fact that you think, or we've allowed advertising to convince these young people

1203
01:07:08,160 --> 01:07:13,080
that you can't go into a gym and exercise without taking, you know, sippable cocaine

1204
01:07:13,080 --> 01:07:18,880
basically that is such a disservice to our youth because you have it inbuilt.

1205
01:07:18,880 --> 01:07:19,880
You're 18.

1206
01:07:19,880 --> 01:07:21,000
That is your pre workout.

1207
01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:22,000
Right.

1208
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:23,080
And also they're fueling.

1209
01:07:23,080 --> 01:07:24,520
They have no idea how to fuel.

1210
01:07:24,520 --> 01:07:31,160
I have gotten some of my firefighters off of pre workout with applesauce pouches, which

1211
01:07:31,160 --> 01:07:33,520
sounds like witchcraft, right?

1212
01:07:33,520 --> 01:07:37,520
Because what first responders think is caffeine provides energy.

1213
01:07:37,520 --> 01:07:39,280
Caffeine does not provide energy.

1214
01:07:39,280 --> 01:07:41,040
Food does.

1215
01:07:41,040 --> 01:07:45,360
Caffeine reduces the feeling of fatigue by pushing adenosine out of the way, which builds

1216
01:07:45,360 --> 01:07:50,840
up as sleep pressure builds during the day and then binds in place to those receptors

1217
01:07:50,840 --> 01:07:52,940
so that you feel more alert.

1218
01:07:52,940 --> 01:07:56,080
So what ends up happening is this is typically the story.

1219
01:07:56,080 --> 01:08:00,160
First responder waking up at the crack of dawn to get a workout before lineup because

1220
01:08:00,160 --> 01:08:03,240
they're just not going to get it during the day at their station.

1221
01:08:03,240 --> 01:08:05,380
Their workouts have started to suck.

1222
01:08:05,380 --> 01:08:06,380
They are tired.

1223
01:08:06,380 --> 01:08:07,900
They don't have the willpower.

1224
01:08:07,900 --> 01:08:09,020
They don't have the energy.

1225
01:08:09,020 --> 01:08:11,320
Their lips aren't fun anymore.

1226
01:08:11,320 --> 01:08:14,280
And you know, it just isn't working.

1227
01:08:14,280 --> 01:08:18,600
I get them to do one or two applesauce pouches prior to because they're light on the stomach

1228
01:08:18,600 --> 01:08:20,240
and they're high in carbs.

1229
01:08:20,240 --> 01:08:24,640
And then next thing you know, they're like, I don't need pre-workout anymore or I don't

1230
01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:26,200
need as much of it.

1231
01:08:26,200 --> 01:08:27,600
My workouts feel better.

1232
01:08:27,600 --> 01:08:33,200
I have something portable, non-perishable that I can take with me on calls.

1233
01:08:33,200 --> 01:08:40,600
So getting those quick carbs before you work out can be a game changer in your workouts.

1234
01:08:40,600 --> 01:08:44,220
And a lot of times if I get people eating more regular meals, which flies in the face

1235
01:08:44,220 --> 01:08:48,880
of intermittent fasting, they actually have more energy throughout the day and they don't

1236
01:08:48,880 --> 01:08:51,960
rely on caffeine nearly as much.

1237
01:08:51,960 --> 01:08:57,680
I've had a lot of success with a variety in the times that I eat.

1238
01:08:57,680 --> 01:09:01,800
It's not a deliberate fasting model I'm doing, but I've always listened to my body.

1239
01:09:01,800 --> 01:09:03,440
It's been one good thing that I've been able to.

1240
01:09:03,440 --> 01:09:06,620
I think it's growing up on a farm maybe.

1241
01:09:06,620 --> 01:09:11,040
And so there's times where, you know, depending on the dynamics of my weeks where I'll wake

1242
01:09:11,040 --> 01:09:15,440
up, I'll go to Jujitsu and my first meal isn't until 12 and I feel amazing and I've

1243
01:09:15,440 --> 01:09:19,280
got amazing energy in Jujitsu and this time is when I wake up, you know, seven o'clock

1244
01:09:19,280 --> 01:09:21,160
and I'm just ravaging.

1245
01:09:21,160 --> 01:09:23,880
And so I eat toast first thing or something.

1246
01:09:23,880 --> 01:09:28,800
So I think firstly, like not being shackled by a specific mentality is good.

1247
01:09:28,800 --> 01:09:30,280
The same with working out.

1248
01:09:30,280 --> 01:09:34,560
Some days you want to just kill it and other days you're like, I'm just going to move

1249
01:09:34,560 --> 01:09:35,560
today.

1250
01:09:35,560 --> 01:09:37,280
I'm going to listen to my body that way.

1251
01:09:37,280 --> 01:09:43,000
An interesting kind of philosophy though, Julien Peneau, who's a strong man coach,

1252
01:09:43,000 --> 01:09:48,380
talked to me about this quite a long time ago now about using glucose or carbohydrates

1253
01:09:48,380 --> 01:09:52,320
in the morning because you're telling your body, hey, it is time to work.

1254
01:09:52,320 --> 01:09:56,040
So if you think about, you know, older humans, you know, we wake up and now we've got to

1255
01:09:56,040 --> 01:09:59,480
go forage, hunt, farm, whatever our thing is.

1256
01:09:59,480 --> 01:10:03,640
And then in the evening his thing was protein and vegetables together, not carbs.

1257
01:10:03,640 --> 01:10:06,720
So now you're allowing your body to get ready to repair.

1258
01:10:06,720 --> 01:10:13,520
So back to the carbs thing, what is your kind of philosophy on kind of what type of things

1259
01:10:13,520 --> 01:10:19,720
to eat that will prepare the body for a day's work or for a workout?

1260
01:10:19,720 --> 01:10:21,200
Yeah.

1261
01:10:21,200 --> 01:10:24,360
I mean, so it depends on what you were talking about.

1262
01:10:24,360 --> 01:10:29,920
So also the things that help for workouts also work potentially between evolutions if

1263
01:10:29,920 --> 01:10:33,800
you are doing fire ground or fire suppression related training.

1264
01:10:33,800 --> 01:10:37,360
So we are looking at the applesauce pouches are really quick and portable.

1265
01:10:37,360 --> 01:10:44,080
I've done fig bars, cliff bars, fruit cups in juice, like the mandarin oranges in juice.

1266
01:10:44,080 --> 01:10:45,080
What else?

1267
01:10:45,080 --> 01:10:46,440
Let me think off the top of my head.

1268
01:10:46,440 --> 01:10:51,720
I like to make a lot of recommendations for like packaged food because I'm a realist.

1269
01:10:51,720 --> 01:10:55,440
Yes, I want people to eat whole foods, but I have a lot of first responders who tell

1270
01:10:55,440 --> 01:10:59,480
me they get the whole foods and then they get held over, they get too tired to meal

1271
01:10:59,480 --> 01:11:01,960
prep and the whole foods die in their fridge.

1272
01:11:01,960 --> 01:11:08,200
So next best bet is frozen canned packaged food that is better for you.

1273
01:11:08,200 --> 01:11:14,160
Not a ton of ingredients ideally, but can be packed in a go bag and you can have it

1274
01:11:14,160 --> 01:11:15,800
when you need it.

1275
01:11:15,800 --> 01:11:19,320
Other things you can do from a preparation standpoint, I love smoothies.

1276
01:11:19,320 --> 01:11:21,720
Those are great prior to the workout.

1277
01:11:21,720 --> 01:11:24,720
And honestly, and I tell these to recruits.

1278
01:11:24,720 --> 01:11:29,680
So when we have recruits or fire suppression related trainings, it's the same stuff you

1279
01:11:29,680 --> 01:11:33,800
would do first thing in the morning, but you have to keep fueling between evolutions.

1280
01:11:33,800 --> 01:11:36,880
So a lot of recruits struggle with recovery and pushing.

1281
01:11:36,880 --> 01:11:39,520
Sorry, I'm going on a tangent here.

1282
01:11:39,520 --> 01:11:45,280
Struggle with recovery and pushing or even the Stokers or the fire control teams as well.

1283
01:11:45,280 --> 01:11:49,760
They struggle with the energy on those days and primarily because they are not refueling

1284
01:11:49,760 --> 01:11:51,740
between each evolution.

1285
01:11:51,740 --> 01:11:54,920
So you need to do a car between each one.

1286
01:11:54,920 --> 01:11:58,280
That carb could be any of the things I just listed, like the applesauce pouches, the smoothie

1287
01:11:58,280 --> 01:12:03,760
pouches, like Cheerios in a bag if that's easy.

1288
01:12:03,760 --> 01:12:07,180
Sports drink can also work if that's all that's available.

1289
01:12:07,180 --> 01:12:09,960
You have to hit that between every evolution.

1290
01:12:09,960 --> 01:12:13,960
You're doing five evolutions that day, five snacks every single time.

1291
01:12:13,960 --> 01:12:20,080
You will notice a massive difference in energy level and you won't feel nearly as hung over,

1292
01:12:20,080 --> 01:12:27,320
in quotes, at the end of the day if you are regularly fueling between.

1293
01:12:27,320 --> 01:12:31,760
So now the other side is sugar is performance enhancing.

1294
01:12:31,760 --> 01:12:38,960
So I'm not entirely opposed to if you have five evolutions, that last evolution for razzle

1295
01:12:38,960 --> 01:12:45,820
dazzle, you do Sour Patch Kids, Skittles, Starbursts or Goldfish.

1296
01:12:45,820 --> 01:12:50,160
If you're having a high intensity day, there's a great time to use something that isn't the

1297
01:12:50,160 --> 01:12:55,760
healthiest but add some interest to your day towards the end of those evolutions so long

1298
01:12:55,760 --> 01:12:59,560
it's not every single one of them.

1299
01:12:59,560 --> 01:13:00,880
What about the end of the night?

1300
01:13:00,880 --> 01:13:06,080
This is the thing, the high carb meals in the morning really made sense to me.

1301
01:13:06,080 --> 01:13:10,240
So I'll do toast, I'll do oatmeal with fruit.

1302
01:13:10,240 --> 01:13:14,740
And the idea that you've obviously got the different digestive mechanisms within the body.

1303
01:13:14,740 --> 01:13:20,200
So when you have a high protein, high fat, high carb meal that they're all kind of fighting

1304
01:13:20,200 --> 01:13:25,120
to digest at the same time, it makes a lot of sense to me even from an evolutionary point

1305
01:13:25,120 --> 01:13:28,840
of view that the hunters came, they built the fire, they cooked the meat and in the

1306
01:13:28,840 --> 01:13:33,800
evening it probably would have been fruit, vegetables and meat.

1307
01:13:33,800 --> 01:13:38,420
And when I've done it that way, I feel like I get a better sleep than if I've had a high

1308
01:13:38,420 --> 01:13:39,720
carb meal for dinner.

1309
01:13:39,720 --> 01:13:42,520
So what is your philosophy on that?

1310
01:13:42,520 --> 01:13:47,020
Well so if you look at the evidence, because I actually have a presentation on nutrition

1311
01:13:47,020 --> 01:13:53,440
and sleep and recovery, there's evidence to support a high carb meal prior to bed, I believe

1312
01:13:53,440 --> 01:13:55,320
for REM sleep.

1313
01:13:55,320 --> 01:13:58,080
I might have this backwards, you're going to have to hold me to it.

1314
01:13:58,080 --> 01:14:03,120
For REM sleep and then a higher fat meal may improve deep sleep.

1315
01:14:03,120 --> 01:14:08,720
So it's actually confusing because it's like one could impact the other.

1316
01:14:08,720 --> 01:14:13,800
So what I take that as in practice is which one do you feel like your sleep is better

1317
01:14:13,800 --> 01:14:14,800
with?

1318
01:14:14,800 --> 01:14:15,800
Right?

1319
01:14:15,800 --> 01:14:20,980
And you know, do you see any, but the other side of it too is are you leaving five hours

1320
01:14:20,980 --> 01:14:23,200
from your last caffeinated beverage?

1321
01:14:23,200 --> 01:14:27,520
Are you leaving three hours from your last alcohol or your last nicotine?

1322
01:14:27,520 --> 01:14:32,040
Because everybody's doing the freaking zins now, which is a whole nother conversation.

1323
01:14:32,040 --> 01:14:34,440
And then also do you have acid reflux?

1324
01:14:34,440 --> 01:14:37,100
Because I feel like half the fire service has acid reflux.

1325
01:14:37,100 --> 01:14:41,040
So avoiding certain foods that may cause that to come back up.

1326
01:14:41,040 --> 01:14:47,760
So I think my understanding of nutrition when it comes to sleep specifically is an it depends,

1327
01:14:47,760 --> 01:14:49,500
see what works for you.

1328
01:14:49,500 --> 01:14:54,320
But also that I think there's also some evidence that a higher carb meal can cause some issues

1329
01:14:54,320 --> 01:14:56,100
from a glucose standpoint.

1330
01:14:56,100 --> 01:15:00,600
But typically that might be more related to someone who's already having issues with glucose

1331
01:15:00,600 --> 01:15:01,600
tolerance.

1332
01:15:01,600 --> 01:15:05,100
See, that's interesting because you know, we think of REM sleep and we always think

1333
01:15:05,100 --> 01:15:07,500
that's the thing that is a recovery.

1334
01:15:07,500 --> 01:15:10,000
That's the thing that really makes a difference, but it's deep sleep.

1335
01:15:10,000 --> 01:15:14,200
So if you were to choose one or the other, I would say, especially as a first responder,

1336
01:15:14,200 --> 01:15:21,600
if the low carb or no carb in the evening meal serves you well, that's the one that

1337
01:15:21,600 --> 01:15:23,040
we're chasing is the deep sleep.

1338
01:15:23,040 --> 01:15:27,240
That's the restorative one that's allowing us to process our traumas and thoughts and

1339
01:15:27,240 --> 01:15:30,480
our muscles and ligaments to repair and all the things.

1340
01:15:30,480 --> 01:15:31,480
Yeah.

1341
01:15:31,480 --> 01:15:35,640
And so another thing with the sleep is everybody overlooks the sleep, right?

1342
01:15:35,640 --> 01:15:40,180
But when we talk about sleep and food, it's a huge factor.

1343
01:15:40,180 --> 01:15:44,160
And one of my biggest indicators for a client to need a sleep study, because I'm sure you

1344
01:15:44,160 --> 01:15:48,400
know that like 37% of firefighters have a sleep disorder and 80% of them don't know

1345
01:15:48,400 --> 01:15:49,400
it.

1346
01:15:49,400 --> 01:15:50,400
Absolutely.

1347
01:15:50,400 --> 01:15:51,480
Kind of vibe.

1348
01:15:51,480 --> 01:15:56,520
So if I have a client come to me and they tell me, I need help with my energy levels,

1349
01:15:56,520 --> 01:16:02,000
I need help with my body composition and my sugar cravings, like I feel like I'm addicted

1350
01:16:02,000 --> 01:16:03,000
to sugar.

1351
01:16:03,000 --> 01:16:05,480
Ding, ding, ding, red flag.

1352
01:16:05,480 --> 01:16:06,960
How is your sleep?

1353
01:16:06,960 --> 01:16:10,760
So a lot of times I ask them, how is their sleep?

1354
01:16:10,760 --> 01:16:18,280
And then they go, it's less than five hours, it's interrupted, I toss and turn, I snore,

1355
01:16:18,280 --> 01:16:20,720
I feel fatigued throughout the day.

1356
01:16:20,720 --> 01:16:22,680
Then we have them go get a sleep study.

1357
01:16:22,680 --> 01:16:29,880
And I've had, I want to say three 29 to 32 year olds over the past year get diagnosed

1358
01:16:29,880 --> 01:16:35,880
with a sleep disorder, have that resolved with whatever the sleep specialist recommends.

1359
01:16:35,880 --> 01:16:40,800
I had one lose 2% body fat in the first month after getting that resolved.

1360
01:16:40,800 --> 01:16:47,680
Your sleep impacts your recovery and sleep disorders occur way earlier than a lot of

1361
01:16:47,680 --> 01:16:50,640
firefighters think, oh, it'll be in my forties, oh, it'll be in my fifties, oh, it'll be when

1362
01:16:50,640 --> 01:16:51,640
I retire.

1363
01:16:51,640 --> 01:16:52,640
Wrong.

1364
01:16:52,640 --> 01:16:54,320
Five, seven years on the job.

1365
01:16:54,320 --> 01:16:55,320
That's where I'm seeing it.

1366
01:16:55,320 --> 01:16:56,320
Yeah.

1367
01:16:56,320 --> 01:16:59,840
I've always made the joke that if you go to most fire station bunk rooms, it looks like

1368
01:16:59,840 --> 01:17:01,160
the bars in Star Wars.

1369
01:17:01,160 --> 01:17:04,240
It's all hoses and noises.

1370
01:17:04,240 --> 01:17:07,440
And it shouldn't be the case, we laugh about this and we shouldn't be.

1371
01:17:07,440 --> 01:17:12,160
I said to someone the other day, imagine if you went to your grocery store, your bank

1372
01:17:12,160 --> 01:17:16,840
for a job interview and the guy starts joking that in 10 years you'll be on your third divorce

1373
01:17:16,840 --> 01:17:17,840
and you'll be an alcoholic.

1374
01:17:17,840 --> 01:17:19,960
You'd be like, all right, I'm not going to work here.

1375
01:17:19,960 --> 01:17:21,160
This sounds shit.

1376
01:17:21,160 --> 01:17:25,520
But we do that in police and fire and we just accept it as normal, but it's not.

1377
01:17:25,520 --> 01:17:31,520
We shouldn't have a 35 year old firefighter on a CPAT and exogenous testosterone just

1378
01:17:31,520 --> 01:17:33,560
because of the conditions of their job.

1379
01:17:33,560 --> 01:17:34,560
It's not the job.

1380
01:17:34,560 --> 01:17:40,560
The job is amazing, the profession, the calling, but the conditions that never evolved with

1381
01:17:40,560 --> 01:17:42,760
the challenges that we have in 2024.

1382
01:17:42,760 --> 01:17:47,480
Again, you say about red flag, these are massive red flags that we need to make changes in

1383
01:17:47,480 --> 01:17:48,480
our profession.

1384
01:17:48,480 --> 01:17:53,760
So our first responders don't get sick and die just from simply responding to their station

1385
01:17:53,760 --> 01:17:54,760
every third day.

1386
01:17:54,760 --> 01:17:55,760
Yeah.

1387
01:17:55,760 --> 01:18:00,600
It's an organizational responsibility, but I think that it's starting to change.

1388
01:18:00,600 --> 01:18:05,280
I would say it's even in the past eight years of me working, there's been some change, but

1389
01:18:05,280 --> 01:18:06,280
it's slow.

1390
01:18:06,280 --> 01:18:07,280
Yeah, absolutely.

1391
01:18:07,280 --> 01:18:08,280
It's slow.

1392
01:18:08,280 --> 01:18:14,000
Well, from an easing philosophy, you talked about Rip Esselstyn and the Engine 2 diet.

1393
01:18:14,000 --> 01:18:15,560
It's really interesting.

1394
01:18:15,560 --> 01:18:17,000
It wasn't him.

1395
01:18:17,000 --> 01:18:20,320
It was James Wilkes who did the Game Changers documentary.

1396
01:18:20,320 --> 01:18:22,120
He's an MMA fighter.

1397
01:18:22,120 --> 01:18:28,160
He was on the show and the Joe Rogan, I think, I forget who, Chris Kresser, I think was on

1398
01:18:28,160 --> 01:18:30,960
with him and they tore his film apart.

1399
01:18:30,960 --> 01:18:33,960
And then he went on and he actually did an interview with me.

1400
01:18:33,960 --> 01:18:37,160
He asked me not to put it out yet because he didn't want to give them fodder.

1401
01:18:37,160 --> 01:18:40,320
So then he goes on their show or on Joe's show.

1402
01:18:40,320 --> 01:18:46,240
But what was so sad is each of those two conversations were three hours and all they did was kind

1403
01:18:46,240 --> 01:18:50,980
of like tear apart his whole thing on plant-based eating.

1404
01:18:50,980 --> 01:18:55,480
And what I see is whether you are the liver king, let's say remove the steroids, the liver

1405
01:18:55,480 --> 01:19:02,360
king, the carnivore diet, the Mediterranean diet, whatever it is, there's a common denominator.

1406
01:19:02,360 --> 01:19:04,600
They remove the processed foods.

1407
01:19:04,600 --> 01:19:06,320
That's why everyone gets healthier.

1408
01:19:06,320 --> 01:19:07,320
You don't have to be a vegan.

1409
01:19:07,320 --> 01:19:09,180
You don't have to be carnivore.

1410
01:19:09,180 --> 01:19:13,440
But the Venn diagram is crossed where you're removing all the shit.

1411
01:19:13,440 --> 01:19:20,200
So what is your philosophy on the spectrum of diets that you recommend?

1412
01:19:20,200 --> 01:19:25,440
And then are you seeing the same common denominators which don't shackle you to specific diets

1413
01:19:25,440 --> 01:19:26,440
specifically?

1414
01:19:26,440 --> 01:19:27,440
Yeah.

1415
01:19:27,440 --> 01:19:33,240
I mean, so when I was a young dietician who came into the fire – I was 24 when I started

1416
01:19:33,240 --> 01:19:37,000
working with firefighters, you know, like I didn't really know anything.

1417
01:19:37,000 --> 01:19:41,200
You know, I was kind of pushing more Mediterranean, which we actually have phenomenal evidence

1418
01:19:41,200 --> 01:19:45,920
for the Mediterranean diet in firefighters in the sense that they want to follow the

1419
01:19:45,920 --> 01:19:51,480
diet and you can execute it with fast food if it has to be a packaged food, that kind

1420
01:19:51,480 --> 01:19:52,620
of thing.

1421
01:19:52,620 --> 01:19:56,840
So I still love Mediterranean leaning towards that for the firefighters.

1422
01:19:56,840 --> 01:20:00,420
But the problem with firefighters is they don't like labels.

1423
01:20:00,420 --> 01:20:02,480
They don't like being in camps.

1424
01:20:02,480 --> 01:20:05,440
And if they do go in a camp, they stay in the camp for 20 minutes and then they leave

1425
01:20:05,440 --> 01:20:06,440
the camp.

1426
01:20:06,440 --> 01:20:07,440
You know what I mean?

1427
01:20:07,440 --> 01:20:08,440
Like they don't stay – we had keto.

1428
01:20:08,440 --> 01:20:09,440
We had low carb.

1429
01:20:09,440 --> 01:20:10,520
We have carnivore now.

1430
01:20:10,520 --> 01:20:12,240
All of these different types of diets.

1431
01:20:12,240 --> 01:20:17,680
And like you said, the trend is less processed food and I would argue more fruits and veggies.

1432
01:20:17,680 --> 01:20:18,680
Absolutely.

1433
01:20:18,680 --> 01:20:19,680
So, yes.

1434
01:20:19,680 --> 01:20:23,240
It's carnivore diet.

1435
01:20:23,240 --> 01:20:25,580
But here's the thing.

1436
01:20:25,580 --> 01:20:30,280
The guy who wrote the carnivore diet isn't even on the carnivore diet anymore and he

1437
01:20:30,280 --> 01:20:32,840
stopped doing it while he was writing the book.

1438
01:20:32,840 --> 01:20:35,560
Like what?

1439
01:20:35,560 --> 01:20:41,480
So it's not sustainable and sustainability should be like at the top of your list when

1440
01:20:41,480 --> 01:20:44,380
you're looking at things that you should be able to follow.

1441
01:20:44,380 --> 01:20:47,480
And yeah, maybe you can also be realistic and say, I'm going to do this for three months.

1442
01:20:47,480 --> 01:20:48,480
That's fine.

1443
01:20:48,480 --> 01:20:51,480
But what is going to be the goal long term?

1444
01:20:51,480 --> 01:20:53,880
So that's a big factor.

1445
01:20:53,880 --> 01:21:00,140
But the other thing that I have a challenge with is like there can be packaged foods.

1446
01:21:00,140 --> 01:21:01,520
You can use packaged foods.

1447
01:21:01,520 --> 01:21:05,220
It's just which ones are you choosing, right?

1448
01:21:05,220 --> 01:21:09,440
Because again, like I said, the portability, the lack of energy, the challenge with meal

1449
01:21:09,440 --> 01:21:13,040
prep, all of those things is you can't overlook that.

1450
01:21:13,040 --> 01:21:15,520
So that's a factor there too.

1451
01:21:15,520 --> 01:21:22,040
But yeah, so plants, I like a plant based diet, but that does not mean only plants.

1452
01:21:22,040 --> 01:21:23,040
Yeah.

1453
01:21:23,040 --> 01:21:26,720
I always tell people I try and eat plant based with meat, which sounds like an oxymoron,

1454
01:21:26,720 --> 01:21:27,720
but it's true.

1455
01:21:27,720 --> 01:21:28,720
Yeah.

1456
01:21:28,720 --> 01:21:30,720
I don't even think that's the right word.

1457
01:21:30,720 --> 01:21:31,720
Plant focused.

1458
01:21:31,720 --> 01:21:35,880
I think I go with plant focused because if I was going to argue what nutrient that firefighters

1459
01:21:35,880 --> 01:21:39,800
are most efficient in, it's actually fiber.

1460
01:21:39,800 --> 01:21:42,720
You know, because your lunch was delayed three hours.

1461
01:21:42,720 --> 01:21:44,800
You roll up to the Chick-fil-A parking lot.

1462
01:21:44,800 --> 01:21:46,180
We are not getting a salad.

1463
01:21:46,180 --> 01:21:50,760
We are blacking out and getting the biggest milkshake and the biggest fried sandwich,

1464
01:21:50,760 --> 01:21:51,760
right?

1465
01:21:51,760 --> 01:21:54,640
So it's really easy for the fiber to get thrown out the window.

1466
01:21:54,640 --> 01:21:59,400
So while I'm not knocking engine two by any means, it's a phenomenal diet.

1467
01:21:59,400 --> 01:22:03,520
It's just again, if people aren't going to follow it, it's not necessarily going to work

1468
01:22:03,520 --> 01:22:04,760
for the fire service.

1469
01:22:04,760 --> 01:22:10,400
So we have to kind of figure out what's the best thing for most people and then customize

1470
01:22:10,400 --> 01:22:15,120
it based on the individual or the station even sitting in front of you.

1471
01:22:15,120 --> 01:22:18,680
Well like I was saying with the Joe Rogan example, what would have been amazing would

1472
01:22:18,680 --> 01:22:23,440
be to have the two camps talking about where they agree.

1473
01:22:23,440 --> 01:22:27,080
You talk about where you disagree, but talk about where you agree because then Julian

1474
01:22:27,080 --> 01:22:28,560
Peneau talks about this.

1475
01:22:28,560 --> 01:22:32,440
He doesn't talk about these are the exercises you should do.

1476
01:22:32,440 --> 01:22:34,360
He's always talking about principles.

1477
01:22:34,360 --> 01:22:38,800
If you understand the nutritional principle, then one day you're doing Mediterranean, the

1478
01:22:38,800 --> 01:22:41,440
next day maybe you're going to do a carnival meal.

1479
01:22:41,440 --> 01:22:45,520
Just purely meat that day and the next day maybe you'll do a plant-based meal.

1480
01:22:45,520 --> 01:22:50,320
But you're understanding that what you're not putting in there is flour and white sugar

1481
01:22:50,320 --> 01:22:55,320
and all these other things that we know are really the elephant in the room in this nutritional

1482
01:22:55,320 --> 01:22:56,320
conversation.

1483
01:22:56,320 --> 01:23:01,440
And even with fast food, we have a restaurant here called Fresh Kitchen in Florida.

1484
01:23:01,440 --> 01:23:03,160
It's amazing, absolutely amazing.

1485
01:23:03,160 --> 01:23:04,840
I mean, super healthy food.

1486
01:23:04,840 --> 01:23:07,720
It's probably a little more sodium than one would recommend normally.

1487
01:23:07,720 --> 01:23:11,680
But again, if you're in Florida in bunker gear, you're going to blow through that sodium

1488
01:23:11,680 --> 01:23:12,680
anyway.

1489
01:23:12,680 --> 01:23:13,680
But-

1490
01:23:13,680 --> 01:23:14,680
Sodium is not a hill I die on with firefighters.

1491
01:23:14,680 --> 01:23:15,680
No.

1492
01:23:15,680 --> 01:23:17,320
I don't know if you've ever tried to go on a low sodium diet.

1493
01:23:17,320 --> 01:23:18,320
It's next to impossible.

1494
01:23:18,320 --> 01:23:22,960
They're sweating way more than most average bears and in fact may need more.

1495
01:23:22,960 --> 01:23:24,680
It's just not the first thing.

1496
01:23:24,680 --> 01:23:25,680
No, no.

1497
01:23:25,680 --> 01:23:26,680
Typically.

1498
01:23:26,680 --> 01:23:27,680
Exactly.

1499
01:23:27,680 --> 01:23:28,680
Well, that's the thing.

1500
01:23:28,680 --> 01:23:31,440
I mean, if you look at the science, the only people that now I think that they're worried

1501
01:23:31,440 --> 01:23:35,640
about high sodium is if you're already obese and dying with hypertension.

1502
01:23:35,640 --> 01:23:36,640
Right.

1503
01:23:36,640 --> 01:23:38,040
Yeah, now it's a factor.

1504
01:23:38,040 --> 01:23:43,280
But yeah, if you're an academy recruit that's spent eight hours in bunker gear sweating,

1505
01:23:43,280 --> 01:23:45,400
then you probably need pickle juice.

1506
01:23:45,400 --> 01:23:46,400
Yeah.

1507
01:23:46,400 --> 01:23:50,120
Well, it comes back to the dichotomous thinking in the fire service.

1508
01:23:50,120 --> 01:23:57,080
So I will always say, I can't tell you how many chiefs, canteens, rehab units, the food

1509
01:23:57,080 --> 01:24:00,960
trucks that come to the firefighters, however you call it in your county.

1510
01:24:00,960 --> 01:24:04,740
They keep coming to me saying, I want healthy options on the canteen.

1511
01:24:04,740 --> 01:24:10,120
And I don't think that's the right language because what you need during rehab is sodium

1512
01:24:10,120 --> 01:24:14,680
and potentially sugar because those are the two things that maximize rehydration.

1513
01:24:14,680 --> 01:24:20,240
And then the sugar is also quick fuel that gets digested fast and is utilized quickly.

1514
01:24:20,240 --> 01:24:22,640
Whereas protein and fiber are going to slow digestion.

1515
01:24:22,640 --> 01:24:28,120
We want protein and fiber and fat to slow digestion when we're sitting at the station

1516
01:24:28,120 --> 01:24:29,120
in the bunk room.

1517
01:24:29,120 --> 01:24:30,120
Right.

1518
01:24:30,120 --> 01:24:31,560
But we don't want that on the fire ground.

1519
01:24:31,560 --> 01:24:35,400
So that's kind of the challenge is like, you can't really have these black or white approaches

1520
01:24:35,400 --> 01:24:40,920
with the fire service because there are drastic changes even throughout the day and throughout

1521
01:24:40,920 --> 01:24:42,400
the shift.

1522
01:24:42,400 --> 01:24:43,920
Talk to me about hydration specifically.

1523
01:24:43,920 --> 01:24:45,200
It's interesting.

1524
01:24:45,200 --> 01:24:51,840
Before I started this podcast, I heard someone on, I don't know which podcast it was, but

1525
01:24:51,840 --> 01:24:55,760
one of the ones we're talking like eight and a half years ago.

1526
01:24:55,760 --> 01:25:03,360
And they were asked a very simple question, I thought, does the amount of hydration that

1527
01:25:03,360 --> 01:25:05,040
you need depend on the size of the firefighter?

1528
01:25:05,040 --> 01:25:08,080
Basically, would a larger firefighter need more water?

1529
01:25:08,080 --> 01:25:11,520
And the person who was supposed to be an expert said, oh, I haven't seen the research.

1530
01:25:11,520 --> 01:25:14,840
And I was like, okay, I need to start a podcast.

1531
01:25:14,840 --> 01:25:16,760
This is the information that's getting out.

1532
01:25:16,760 --> 01:25:23,600
So talk to me about, again, the spectrum of hydration as per, like you said, a pregnant

1533
01:25:23,600 --> 01:25:31,560
female, the 280 pound X, lying back at whatever it is, but also the types of hydration, water,

1534
01:25:31,560 --> 01:25:34,520
Gatorade, and maybe some other recommendations that you have.

1535
01:25:34,520 --> 01:25:35,520
Yeah.

1536
01:25:35,520 --> 01:25:37,480
And I meant to look this up.

1537
01:25:37,480 --> 01:25:39,440
I know there are standards based off of weight.

1538
01:25:39,440 --> 01:25:41,480
I think it's like what?

1539
01:25:41,480 --> 01:25:43,960
I can't remember off the top of my head.

1540
01:25:43,960 --> 01:25:49,240
Definitely a six foot two, 250 pound firefighter with a high muscle mass is going to need more

1541
01:25:49,240 --> 01:25:52,320
fluid than a five foot three female.

1542
01:25:52,320 --> 01:25:53,320
Right?

1543
01:25:53,320 --> 01:25:57,560
And actually we see a lot more issues with dehydration for women because they lose more

1544
01:25:57,560 --> 01:26:02,000
fluid and they have less of it to lose from a performance standpoint.

1545
01:26:02,000 --> 01:26:05,680
So hydration is actually super important for our female firefighters.

1546
01:26:05,680 --> 01:26:10,960
But I will say the female firefighters have their act together 90% of the time.

1547
01:26:10,960 --> 01:26:14,480
Like they have to because of the job.

1548
01:26:14,480 --> 01:26:20,040
But overall, I usually go with the Institute of Medicine standards, which is the baseline

1549
01:26:20,040 --> 01:26:24,520
for like you work out and you didn't have a fire that day.

1550
01:26:24,520 --> 01:26:28,960
So 90 ounces for women and 125 for men.

1551
01:26:28,960 --> 01:26:31,840
I don't know if you have a standard and I can't remember off the top of my head for

1552
01:26:31,840 --> 01:26:33,560
body weight that you keep in mind.

1553
01:26:33,560 --> 01:26:38,640
No, I mean, again, I'm very, you know, listen to my body-esque.

1554
01:26:38,640 --> 01:26:40,920
So I'm not a snatched person.

1555
01:26:40,920 --> 01:26:43,440
It wouldn't stay in my head even if I'd read it five minutes ago.

1556
01:26:43,440 --> 01:26:47,920
But yeah, but I mean, again, using that, you know, the simple things, the P chart and,

1557
01:26:47,920 --> 01:26:52,480
you know, your thirst or lack thereof, you know, those are pretty good indicators of

1558
01:26:52,480 --> 01:26:56,280
over the duration, you know, are you hydrating properly?

1559
01:26:56,280 --> 01:26:57,280
Do you need to go back?

1560
01:26:57,280 --> 01:27:00,000
My wife actually has an app on her phone that tells her to drink.

1561
01:27:00,000 --> 01:27:01,000
Super annoying.

1562
01:27:01,000 --> 01:27:03,440
Yeah, well, because some people don't remember.

1563
01:27:03,440 --> 01:27:09,920
And I think it's, I would argue that probably half the fire service is ADHD, right?

1564
01:27:09,920 --> 01:27:10,920
Yep.

1565
01:27:10,920 --> 01:27:13,880
So and I think numbers do help, right?

1566
01:27:13,880 --> 01:27:14,880
Because that means what?

1567
01:27:14,880 --> 01:27:17,080
90 to 125 math.

1568
01:27:17,080 --> 01:27:18,080
Yes.

1569
01:27:18,080 --> 01:27:22,680
If you, the Stanley cups, everybody was losing their minds over last Christmas, you know,

1570
01:27:22,680 --> 01:27:24,720
that's two to three of those.

1571
01:27:24,720 --> 01:27:30,660
So then that helps people who truly forget or do not like fluid to do that.

1572
01:27:30,660 --> 01:27:32,960
But the good news is, is coffee counts.

1573
01:27:32,960 --> 01:27:36,080
So caffeine is a mild diuretic.

1574
01:27:36,080 --> 01:27:39,280
You will pee more in the first hour after drinking it.

1575
01:27:39,280 --> 01:27:42,560
But the total body hydration over the course of the day stays the same because you just

1576
01:27:42,560 --> 01:27:46,120
replace the liquid you peed out with the liquid from the coffee.

1577
01:27:46,120 --> 01:27:50,800
Now does that mean you can just drink coffee all day and no water?

1578
01:27:50,800 --> 01:27:52,480
No.

1579
01:27:52,480 --> 01:27:57,520
But it's, I think that's helpful for first responders because when they hear, oh, you

1580
01:27:57,520 --> 01:28:00,760
can't have coffee because it's going to dehydrate you, they basically stick their middle finger

1581
01:28:00,760 --> 01:28:01,960
up and say, screw you lady.

1582
01:28:01,960 --> 01:28:03,040
I'm not doing that.

1583
01:28:03,040 --> 01:28:06,280
So it's a little bit more realistic.

1584
01:28:06,280 --> 01:28:10,360
But the other thing I wanted to mention with hydration is that having some sugar available

1585
01:28:10,360 --> 01:28:14,600
in an electrolyte product actually speeds rehydration.

1586
01:28:14,600 --> 01:28:17,660
And I don't know if you've noticed that a lot of first responders are kind of going

1587
01:28:17,660 --> 01:28:22,240
towards the element and the fire salts and the sugar-free options because they're healthy.

1588
01:28:22,240 --> 01:28:31,240
But again, healthy is not what you want in a high intensity, potential hydration compromised

1589
01:28:31,240 --> 01:28:32,240
situation.

1590
01:28:32,240 --> 01:28:33,240
Yeah.

1591
01:28:33,240 --> 01:28:34,240
Yeah.

1592
01:28:34,240 --> 01:28:36,400
I've tried the element and I had Rob on the show.

1593
01:28:36,400 --> 01:28:38,000
And again, it's application.

1594
01:28:38,000 --> 01:28:42,840
If you follow in keto, if you're, like you said, trying to lean up, all those kinds of

1595
01:28:42,840 --> 01:28:43,840
things.

1596
01:28:43,840 --> 01:28:51,000
And if you have to fight and fire for 30 minutes, then you need glucose.

1597
01:28:51,000 --> 01:28:54,640
She was the army's nutritionist, I think she was.

1598
01:28:54,640 --> 01:29:02,120
And they've got a product called Cera, C-E-R-A. And it's a rice-based hydration drink.

1599
01:29:02,120 --> 01:29:08,000
So they're putting the carbs in without a spike of just pure glucose.

1600
01:29:08,000 --> 01:29:10,680
And she was a long distance runner as well.

1601
01:29:10,680 --> 01:29:14,360
Very, very funny story is actually about her running.

1602
01:29:14,360 --> 01:29:20,360
But yeah, so seeing these actual true, true sports drinks versus the Gatorade when you

1603
01:29:20,360 --> 01:29:24,280
look on the side and it's high fructose corn syrup, having that middle gram, yeah, I'm

1604
01:29:24,280 --> 01:29:28,400
going to hydrate, I'm going to have my carbs, but maybe not have the one owned by Pepsi

1605
01:29:28,400 --> 01:29:29,640
company.

1606
01:29:29,640 --> 01:29:34,360
Maybe that's another thing for, like you said, the rehab to still put the things that they

1607
01:29:34,360 --> 01:29:37,680
need in, but maybe not from a soda company.

1608
01:29:37,680 --> 01:29:39,280
Well, yeah.

1609
01:29:39,280 --> 01:29:44,880
And the other thing too I just wanted to kind of mention is I'm looking for products that

1610
01:29:44,880 --> 01:29:46,800
are evidence-based, right?

1611
01:29:46,800 --> 01:29:52,000
And things like drip drop, liquid IV, or fluid tactical are going to be products that have

1612
01:29:52,000 --> 01:29:57,440
evidence behind them that they actually work as well as IV fluids for mild to moderate

1613
01:29:57,440 --> 01:29:58,760
dehydration.

1614
01:29:58,760 --> 01:30:05,200
And until I see similar evidence for the no sugar sodium only options, then I'm going

1615
01:30:05,200 --> 01:30:09,060
to go based off of those products because departments are buying one.

1616
01:30:09,060 --> 01:30:13,680
They're not buying three different ones because one guy's keto and one guy's this.

1617
01:30:13,680 --> 01:30:16,700
They need to buy one product, right?

1618
01:30:16,700 --> 01:30:21,800
So I will say some of my 40-year-olds, like 50-year-olds who are really high performers,

1619
01:30:21,800 --> 01:30:23,960
they just prefer those products.

1620
01:30:23,960 --> 01:30:24,960
Go for it.

1621
01:30:24,960 --> 01:30:30,960
But when we're looking at the evidence, having a little bit of glucose available, it gives

1622
01:30:30,960 --> 01:30:35,160
you access to the sodium glucose co-transporter, which means you have an extra access point

1623
01:30:35,160 --> 01:30:39,120
to pull water from the intestine into the cell.

1624
01:30:39,120 --> 01:30:43,720
So when you're looking for products to purchase, those are the ones that I recommend just because

1625
01:30:43,720 --> 01:30:49,800
they are very close to the World Health Organization's ORS standards or oral rehydration solution

1626
01:30:49,800 --> 01:30:50,800
standards.

1627
01:30:50,800 --> 01:30:57,040
Actually, that's where that rice one originated from was actually working with, I forget,

1628
01:30:57,040 --> 01:30:58,920
was it cholera?

1629
01:30:58,920 --> 01:30:59,920
I think it was.

1630
01:30:59,920 --> 01:31:00,920
Cholera epidemic.

1631
01:31:00,920 --> 01:31:01,920
Yes.

1632
01:31:01,920 --> 01:31:02,920
Yep.

1633
01:31:02,920 --> 01:31:03,920
So rehydration.

1634
01:31:03,920 --> 01:31:08,120
Does that help from a GI standpoint, like relating to diarrhea and stuff?

1635
01:31:08,120 --> 01:31:09,560
I'm assuming that was the story.

1636
01:31:09,560 --> 01:31:10,560
I made the assumption.

1637
01:31:10,560 --> 01:31:11,560
Yeah.

1638
01:31:11,560 --> 01:31:13,360
So some people just can't tolerate those kinds of things.

1639
01:31:13,360 --> 01:31:17,200
So starches may do a little bit better.

1640
01:31:17,200 --> 01:31:20,120
I'm assuming that's what that product is probably based in.

1641
01:31:20,120 --> 01:31:21,120
Yeah.

1642
01:31:21,120 --> 01:31:22,120
I'll send you the information when we're done here.

1643
01:31:22,120 --> 01:31:25,440
I've still got the magnet on my fridge so I can go look at it.

1644
01:31:25,440 --> 01:31:26,640
You mentioned drip drop as well.

1645
01:31:26,640 --> 01:31:32,880
I did a thing with a load of Navy SEALs and elite distance runners just over a year ago.

1646
01:31:32,880 --> 01:31:34,840
I think it was two years ago.

1647
01:31:34,840 --> 01:31:39,320
Anyway, it was school 7X and we went around the planet.

1648
01:31:39,320 --> 01:31:44,320
They did some skydives and stuff too, but the study was to do seven marathons and seven

1649
01:31:44,320 --> 01:31:46,440
continents in seven days.

1650
01:31:46,440 --> 01:31:47,480
So they ran a marathon.

1651
01:31:47,480 --> 01:31:49,920
We got back on the plane, slept on plane seats.

1652
01:31:49,920 --> 01:31:52,880
A lot of times if you're going continent to continent, you're talking about like four

1653
01:31:52,880 --> 01:31:55,640
or five hours sleep and then you're back out there running again.

1654
01:31:55,640 --> 01:31:56,640
I was support.

1655
01:31:56,640 --> 01:32:01,480
I wasn't one of the athletes, but drip drop was the one they kept asking for.

1656
01:32:01,480 --> 01:32:03,040
Some of them were skydivers.

1657
01:32:03,040 --> 01:32:05,260
Some of them were Delta operators.

1658
01:32:05,260 --> 01:32:09,920
Some of them were elite triathletes and they were all wanting drip drop by the end of it.

1659
01:32:09,920 --> 01:32:14,500
So again, anecdotal, all those different types of athletes, that was the one that they obviously

1660
01:32:14,500 --> 01:32:17,120
found helped them a lot.

1661
01:32:17,120 --> 01:32:18,120
Yeah.

1662
01:32:18,120 --> 01:32:22,360
Like I said, drip drop actually has studies using their product.

1663
01:32:22,360 --> 01:32:25,000
That's the hard part is I've seen the low sugar ones.

1664
01:32:25,000 --> 01:32:28,600
They'll come and they'll give me their pamphlets and their pamphlets are going on a tangent

1665
01:32:28,600 --> 01:32:32,440
about how sugar is causing the diabetes epidemic.

1666
01:32:32,440 --> 01:32:38,400
We're not talking about diabetes when you are fighting fire.

1667
01:32:38,400 --> 01:32:42,720
Sugar's impact is not relating to people who are exercising and doing hard physical labor

1668
01:32:42,720 --> 01:32:43,720
like that.

1669
01:32:43,720 --> 01:32:45,000
You know what I'm saying?

1670
01:32:45,000 --> 01:32:47,400
I'm not saying that we should only eat sugar.

1671
01:32:47,400 --> 01:32:49,920
I'm saying use it as a tool.

1672
01:32:49,920 --> 01:32:55,640
You're not going to use like a battering ram to force the, that's for forcing doors to

1673
01:32:55,640 --> 01:32:59,800
force, like open up a ceiling and I'm not doing good with firefighter terms, but there

1674
01:32:59,800 --> 01:33:04,200
are terms, there are tools you guys use for the job for a reason.

1675
01:33:04,200 --> 01:33:05,880
And it's the same thing with food.

1676
01:33:05,880 --> 01:33:09,820
But like I said, people want to be very black or white with it.

1677
01:33:09,820 --> 01:33:17,080
And drip drop, like I said, has some really good evidence that it is comparable to IV

1678
01:33:17,080 --> 01:33:21,040
therapy for mild to moderate dehydration, which is super important in academy settings

1679
01:33:21,040 --> 01:33:23,840
where you don't want to start a line on someone because paperwork.

1680
01:33:23,840 --> 01:33:27,480
Well, it's funny, I was just thinking about that and making sure we hit that a little

1681
01:33:27,480 --> 01:33:28,480
bit more.

1682
01:33:28,480 --> 01:33:32,080
So talk to me about Rabdo in general that you're seeing through your eyes and what are

1683
01:33:32,080 --> 01:33:39,720
some of the circumstances that are contributing to a young, not even young, a person in uniform

1684
01:33:39,720 --> 01:33:44,420
suffering Rabdo in training or on the job?

1685
01:33:44,420 --> 01:33:48,040
This is going to be potentially an offensive conversation.

1686
01:33:48,040 --> 01:33:49,040
But I'm going to be blunt.

1687
01:33:49,040 --> 01:33:50,040
You have the green light.

1688
01:33:50,040 --> 01:33:55,320
Okay, and I'm a people pleaser, so this is really hard for me.

1689
01:33:55,320 --> 01:34:00,280
But again, we have to look at the class sitting in front of us, right?

1690
01:34:00,280 --> 01:34:07,120
And the classes sitting in front of us, 90% of the time are coming in completely deconditioned.

1691
01:34:07,120 --> 01:34:10,880
Maybe they passed CBAT three months ago, but then the class was delayed several months

1692
01:34:10,880 --> 01:34:12,760
and they haven't been working out.

1693
01:34:12,760 --> 01:34:18,320
So you've got to use that as like potentially do some surveys, see what they are, do some

1694
01:34:18,320 --> 01:34:20,260
testing, see where they are standing.

1695
01:34:20,260 --> 01:34:24,900
If they can barely make it through a warmup, we are not going to chop till we drop the

1696
01:34:24,900 --> 01:34:26,860
next day, right?

1697
01:34:26,860 --> 01:34:33,020
Because what I have seen when I was with one county, OSHA ended up coming in because we

1698
01:34:33,020 --> 01:34:36,540
had two police candidates with Rabdo.

1699
01:34:36,540 --> 01:34:40,300
And what had happened was it was the middle of September in Maryland, which is humid and

1700
01:34:40,300 --> 01:34:42,980
disgusting 90 degree days.

1701
01:34:42,980 --> 01:34:49,320
And they were having their recruits run outside in business suits, business suits, not workout

1702
01:34:49,320 --> 01:34:54,780
PT gear, business suits, which let me tell you something, if I ruin one of my nice suits

1703
01:34:54,780 --> 01:34:58,120
with sweat, I'm going to lose it.

1704
01:34:58,120 --> 01:35:02,640
But in business suits, plus, you know, they weren't allowed to have electrolyte replacement

1705
01:35:02,640 --> 01:35:03,640
products.

1706
01:35:03,640 --> 01:35:06,960
They said no Gatorade, water only, only water.

1707
01:35:06,960 --> 01:35:10,720
And they were having them do like a lot of punishment pushups.

1708
01:35:10,720 --> 01:35:14,400
And that is literally your recipe for Rabdo.

1709
01:35:14,400 --> 01:35:19,280
Taking an untrained population, doing repetitive movements, specifically repetitive, eccentric

1710
01:35:19,280 --> 01:35:26,320
movements, and then not allowing them to replace with electrolyte products in the heat.

1711
01:35:26,320 --> 01:35:28,320
That is the recipe for Rabdo.

1712
01:35:28,320 --> 01:35:35,460
So I think it's important to educate your cadre if they have a tendency of being really

1713
01:35:35,460 --> 01:35:39,680
high intensity, military background potentially.

1714
01:35:39,680 --> 01:35:44,480
Just do it, just suck it up because that can be a recipe for disaster when you have a class

1715
01:35:44,480 --> 01:35:47,200
coming in not conditioned.

1716
01:35:47,200 --> 01:35:48,800
Right.

1717
01:35:48,800 --> 01:35:54,320
So we may need to scale back the programming and scaling back the programming, especially

1718
01:35:54,320 --> 01:35:58,880
from a running perspective, you don't increase mileage more than 10% per week.

1719
01:35:58,880 --> 01:36:05,360
If we want to prevent Rabdo shin issue, shin splints and other injuries, if you do want

1720
01:36:05,360 --> 01:36:09,760
to incorporate running into your program, it needs to be scaled 10% per week and no

1721
01:36:09,760 --> 01:36:10,760
more than that.

1722
01:36:10,760 --> 01:36:14,200
One of my guests made a good point, it was quite a while ago now, but they were talking

1723
01:36:14,200 --> 01:36:15,200
about pushups.

1724
01:36:15,200 --> 01:36:19,120
And I think it was a strength and conditioning coach and we were talking about what a pushup

1725
01:36:19,120 --> 01:36:20,120
should look like.

1726
01:36:20,120 --> 01:36:25,520
And he said, think about how many shit pushups are done in military bases, in fire and police

1727
01:36:25,520 --> 01:36:26,720
academies.

1728
01:36:26,720 --> 01:36:32,680
And you're just reinforcing that terrible movement pattern over and over and over again.

1729
01:36:32,680 --> 01:36:36,120
And he just touched on it, how many times are pushups used for punishment?

1730
01:36:36,120 --> 01:36:41,960
Well, what a disservice to one of the most incredible exercises ever invented by man is

1731
01:36:41,960 --> 01:36:47,040
to just completely screw it up by exhausting people and getting them shitty form and half

1732
01:36:47,040 --> 01:36:49,080
range of motion and all the things.

1733
01:36:49,080 --> 01:36:53,560
So going back to asking, well, why am I going to tell them and drop them do this many?

1734
01:36:53,560 --> 01:36:59,260
And if I am going to cut it in half and ask them to do 10 perfect pushups in a hollow

1735
01:36:59,260 --> 01:37:03,400
position so that when they're done, they should still be equally as tired, but they've actually

1736
01:37:03,400 --> 01:37:07,400
told their body, this is how I'm supposed to move and reinforce that movement pattern.

1737
01:37:07,400 --> 01:37:12,800
So it's interesting, just because we've done it a certain way for X amount of time, is

1738
01:37:12,800 --> 01:37:15,000
there an opportunity to go, you know what?

1739
01:37:15,000 --> 01:37:16,920
I think there's a better way of doing it.

1740
01:37:16,920 --> 01:37:21,520
Maybe we shouldn't do a hundred pushups of which it just looks like you're trying to

1741
01:37:21,520 --> 01:37:23,560
audition for Magic Mike at the end of it.

1742
01:37:23,560 --> 01:37:24,560
So no.

1743
01:37:24,560 --> 01:37:28,640
And again, in deconditioned populations, right?

1744
01:37:28,640 --> 01:37:31,360
I know they are supposed to not come in deconditioned.

1745
01:37:31,360 --> 01:37:35,600
I listen, I would love to be able to hold that standard, but that's not what recruitment's

1746
01:37:35,600 --> 01:37:37,000
capable of doing right now.

1747
01:37:37,000 --> 01:37:44,560
So again, it comes back to that organizational policies of having a periodized, uh, progressive

1748
01:37:44,560 --> 01:37:51,440
overload training program that pushes them to a limit, allows them to rest, but also

1749
01:37:51,440 --> 01:37:54,840
make sure they actually get to the level of fitness required.

1750
01:37:54,840 --> 01:38:00,160
And typically like if you're setting up a six month Academy, I think they do best with

1751
01:38:00,160 --> 01:38:04,680
EMS first, you know, and compared to doing suppression first.

1752
01:38:04,680 --> 01:38:08,840
I think there's more camaraderie when they do suppression first, but when you're doing

1753
01:38:08,840 --> 01:38:14,200
suppression first in the middle of the summer, uh, with a deconditioned population, I think

1754
01:38:14,200 --> 01:38:17,440
it's a recipe for a disaster, um, potentially.

1755
01:38:17,440 --> 01:38:23,660
So I kind of gave you my thoughts earlier on, but you've got quite an interesting lens

1756
01:38:23,660 --> 01:38:27,440
now because obviously you're working with departments, but you're standing on the outside

1757
01:38:27,440 --> 01:38:28,440
as well.

1758
01:38:28,440 --> 01:38:31,160
And you work with other populations prior to that.

1759
01:38:31,160 --> 01:38:35,560
What is the reason why you're seeing less and less conditioned candidates show up for

1760
01:38:35,560 --> 01:38:36,560
day one?

1761
01:38:36,560 --> 01:38:37,560
Yeah.

1762
01:38:37,560 --> 01:38:41,400
I mean, like you said, the school situation is a big one.

1763
01:38:41,400 --> 01:38:45,760
Um, phones probably, I mean, even for me, like I didn't get a smartphone until I passed

1764
01:38:45,760 --> 01:38:46,940
college, right?

1765
01:38:46,940 --> 01:38:52,920
So like I couldn't even imagine like growing up with my face flat in my phone and I do

1766
01:38:52,920 --> 01:38:53,920
a horrible job.

1767
01:38:53,920 --> 01:38:54,920
I'm in my phone all the time.

1768
01:38:54,920 --> 01:38:58,760
Um, so yeah, I mean, they're, they're not working out as much.

1769
01:38:58,760 --> 01:39:02,960
They, the recess and the exercise breaks are less and less and less.

1770
01:39:02,960 --> 01:39:06,600
Um, food choices are more and more convenient.

1771
01:39:06,600 --> 01:39:08,920
Like I said, the grub hub, that kind of stuff.

1772
01:39:08,920 --> 01:39:11,200
Um, and that also creates financial issues.

1773
01:39:11,200 --> 01:39:16,000
So I think it's just the environment is a big, big, big, big, big, big problem.

1774
01:39:16,000 --> 01:39:19,180
Um, you know, with having people come in fit.

1775
01:39:19,180 --> 01:39:25,180
Now I will say, um, there are departments who, for example, Montgomery County, uh, Maryland,

1776
01:39:25,180 --> 01:39:28,860
my friend Katie Dennison is a firefighter who runs their fitness program.

1777
01:39:28,860 --> 01:39:30,420
They have CPAT mentoring.

1778
01:39:30,420 --> 01:39:35,600
So they have like a 12 week program where they get their candidates in shape.

1779
01:39:35,600 --> 01:39:39,480
And typically, so long as they don't get yelled at by recruitment, which they've had issues

1780
01:39:39,480 --> 01:39:44,920
in the past, um, they can continue doing mentoring even after they pass CPAT.

1781
01:39:44,920 --> 01:39:50,480
So they actually have recruits coming in significantly better shape so they can push them right off

1782
01:39:50,480 --> 01:39:51,480
the bat.

1783
01:39:51,480 --> 01:39:58,740
But that is also a very financially, um, like that costs a lot of money and time and overtime

1784
01:39:58,740 --> 01:40:00,880
for your instructors to be there.

1785
01:40:00,880 --> 01:40:07,200
But that is a really great model for getting your recruits into better shape prior to.

1786
01:40:07,200 --> 01:40:09,800
There's an amazing mentorship program where I live.

1787
01:40:09,800 --> 01:40:13,800
And even with the diversity conversation, I've said this on here many times as well,

1788
01:40:13,800 --> 01:40:18,600
but they provide, I think it's three times a week, this mentoring and exactly that they

1789
01:40:18,600 --> 01:40:21,400
do PT, they put them in gear, they teach them skills.

1790
01:40:21,400 --> 01:40:25,140
So by the time they go to a fire Academy, they can already throw ladders and pull hose

1791
01:40:25,140 --> 01:40:29,940
and bunker up and do the, you know, the runs and all those things.

1792
01:40:29,940 --> 01:40:34,280
But you're also going into underserved populations because let's be honest, you know, fire Academy

1793
01:40:34,280 --> 01:40:38,480
down here, we pay for ourselves to go through Academy usually, and then try and get hired

1794
01:40:38,480 --> 01:40:41,120
who we certainly used to not now.

1795
01:40:41,120 --> 01:40:44,360
Um, and so, you know, money is a barrier to entry.

1796
01:40:44,360 --> 01:40:47,440
Some of these young people having to work, you know, and they don't have, you know, two

1797
01:40:47,440 --> 01:40:49,820
or three grand to spend on a fire Academy.

1798
01:40:49,820 --> 01:40:52,520
So now they show up all this is for free.

1799
01:40:52,520 --> 01:40:54,400
There's a scholarships for the fire Academy.

1800
01:40:54,400 --> 01:40:57,760
Obviously there's people looking to hire them on the other side.

1801
01:40:57,760 --> 01:41:01,920
But like you said, they're, they're not scooping up a bunch of people because of a skin color

1802
01:41:01,920 --> 01:41:04,080
or gender and saying, we need you all.

1803
01:41:04,080 --> 01:41:08,080
They're going into that group and saying, who wants to rise to the bar and be a firefighter?

1804
01:41:08,080 --> 01:41:12,640
And so they find the best of these people, and I think that's the big part of this recruitment

1805
01:41:12,640 --> 01:41:13,640
conversation.

1806
01:41:13,640 --> 01:41:16,760
I think the meets, uh, the mentorship model is phenomenal.

1807
01:41:16,760 --> 01:41:19,080
You're not babysitting someone, you're not holding their hands.

1808
01:41:19,080 --> 01:41:23,520
We still have to do what you ask them to do, but some people just need encouragement.

1809
01:41:23,520 --> 01:41:26,880
They need to be shown how they need to be shown how to eat and hydrates.

1810
01:41:26,880 --> 01:41:30,220
They don't fall out and never want to be a firefighter again.

1811
01:41:30,220 --> 01:41:35,760
So I think this is a massive part of the, you know, the overall recruitment crisis.

1812
01:41:35,760 --> 01:41:41,960
Um, you know, solutions is mentorship is one of the ways you'll get good, good people into

1813
01:41:41,960 --> 01:41:46,260
your department and that money that you're putting into that program, you'll save hand

1814
01:41:46,260 --> 01:41:51,400
over fist if they stay with you and, you know, last a 20, 25 year career.

1815
01:41:51,400 --> 01:41:52,920
Yeah, absolutely.

1816
01:41:52,920 --> 01:41:57,480
And then they also have mentors within the fitness cadre as well.

1817
01:41:57,480 --> 01:42:02,360
Um, and I think that Montgomery County also saw improvements in getting women into the

1818
01:42:02,360 --> 01:42:03,360
fire service.

1819
01:42:03,360 --> 01:42:08,080
So when you talk about those diverse populations and improving diversity, um, they do a really

1820
01:42:08,080 --> 01:42:12,240
good job at getting females trained because like you said, like I said, CPAT's really

1821
01:42:12,240 --> 01:42:17,100
hard, um, from a female perspective because strength is typically what's lacking.

1822
01:42:17,100 --> 01:42:21,400
So they can get their females stronger and get them through CPAT and then they're in

1823
01:42:21,400 --> 01:42:23,480
better shape when they come into the academy.

1824
01:42:23,480 --> 01:42:29,140
So I think that's a, uh, thing to factor in is can you incorporate a CPAT mentoring program

1825
01:42:29,140 --> 01:42:31,680
in order to get your people in shape?

1826
01:42:31,680 --> 01:42:34,120
And then you can push them once they're in the academy.

1827
01:42:34,120 --> 01:42:35,120
Absolutely.

1828
01:42:35,120 --> 01:42:36,120
All right.

1829
01:42:36,120 --> 01:42:39,040
Well, I want to go to one more topic and then we'll round off.

1830
01:42:39,040 --> 01:42:45,120
Um, I have tried, you know, uh, spectrum of different supplements over time, never really

1831
01:42:45,120 --> 01:42:50,280
been into the bodybuilding side, never, never died too deeply into creatine or anything

1832
01:42:50,280 --> 01:42:54,560
like that, but certainly, you know, from proteins to multivitamins to, you know, some of the

1833
01:42:54,560 --> 01:42:59,320
other supplementation, what are some of the things that you find are very applicable when

1834
01:42:59,320 --> 01:43:01,280
it comes to the tactical professions?

1835
01:43:01,280 --> 01:43:04,520
This is a fun one.

1836
01:43:04,520 --> 01:43:09,680
Um, yeah, like usually when I have presentations, they love the supplements conversation the

1837
01:43:09,680 --> 01:43:10,680
most.

1838
01:43:10,680 --> 01:43:15,240
Um, but the problem is, is the supplements is just the sprinkles on the cupcake where

1839
01:43:15,240 --> 01:43:20,100
the cake is actually, you know, your nutrition and then the timing is the icing and the sprinkles

1840
01:43:20,100 --> 01:43:21,440
are just for funsies.

1841
01:43:21,440 --> 01:43:25,480
Um, and as a background in bodybuilding, I thought supplements were going to fix my whole

1842
01:43:25,480 --> 01:43:29,720
life, you know, the way they're marketed, you're like, this thing is going to make everything

1843
01:43:29,720 --> 01:43:32,160
amazing and then it doesn't do anything.

1844
01:43:32,160 --> 01:43:38,400
So the two supplements that I like best for the fire service are tart cherry juice, which

1845
01:43:38,400 --> 01:43:42,240
isn't technically even a supplement and creatine monohydrate.

1846
01:43:42,240 --> 01:43:44,680
So tart cherry juice is a food, right?

1847
01:43:44,680 --> 01:43:48,720
Um, and the reason I like tart cherry juice is it because there's evidence to suggest

1848
01:43:48,720 --> 01:43:54,600
that it helps with sleep and muscle soreness, which for recruits ding and for firefighters

1849
01:43:54,600 --> 01:43:56,840
over the age of 40 ding, right?

1850
01:43:56,840 --> 01:44:00,000
That kills two birds with one stone for both of those populations.

1851
01:44:00,000 --> 01:44:05,760
Um, tart cherry juice can improve sleep quality by increasing potentially melatonin production

1852
01:44:05,760 --> 01:44:09,880
leading to better rapid eye movement sleep, which means you get better sleep quality when

1853
01:44:09,880 --> 01:44:11,980
quantity is an issue.

1854
01:44:11,980 --> 01:44:15,320
So now I think the evidence is kind of mixed.

1855
01:44:15,320 --> 01:44:19,560
Um, some of this, it might be a placebo effect, but we'll take a placebo.

1856
01:44:19,560 --> 01:44:20,560
You know what I mean?

1857
01:44:20,560 --> 01:44:25,560
Um, so tart cherry juice, the amount that's recommended is somewhere between four to 12

1858
01:44:25,560 --> 01:44:30,280
ounces in the morning and in the evening for muscle soreness and in the evening for sleep.

1859
01:44:30,280 --> 01:44:34,880
And I have had a lot of recruits cause I do a lot of Academy nutrition presentations,

1860
01:44:34,880 --> 01:44:39,780
um, try the tart cherry juice and say like, this was everything for me, right?

1861
01:44:39,780 --> 01:44:43,600
Like their sleep improved and they actually cut back on energy drinks.

1862
01:44:43,600 --> 01:44:50,840
So very inexpensive relative to supplements way to get people, um, to cut back on energy

1863
01:44:50,840 --> 01:44:53,960
drinks, improve quality of sleep when quantity is an issue.

1864
01:44:53,960 --> 01:44:58,680
Um, now tart cherry juice can, you can find in the grocery store in the cranberry juice

1865
01:44:58,680 --> 01:45:01,480
aisle, there's going to be one small little leader.

1866
01:45:01,480 --> 01:45:06,160
Um, I recommend trying it first because I had one firefighter by a crate of it only

1867
01:45:06,160 --> 01:45:08,360
to find out she hated it.

1868
01:45:08,360 --> 01:45:10,200
So don't do that.

1869
01:45:10,200 --> 01:45:16,180
Um, but that can be a great tool for improving, um, or reducing muscle soreness and potentially

1870
01:45:16,180 --> 01:45:17,680
improving sleep quality.

1871
01:45:17,680 --> 01:45:19,760
Um, any questions or thoughts on that?

1872
01:45:19,760 --> 01:45:20,760
Nope.

1873
01:45:20,760 --> 01:45:21,760
I'm not on the first one.

1874
01:45:21,760 --> 01:45:23,040
Okay, cool.

1875
01:45:23,040 --> 01:45:24,040
That's a great tool.

1876
01:45:24,040 --> 01:45:27,860
Um, and then, uh, creating monohydrate.

1877
01:45:27,860 --> 01:45:32,240
So this is a long conversation and there's some experts who are way smarter than me,

1878
01:45:32,240 --> 01:45:36,960
uh, in this arena, but creating monohydrate was traditionally used by the bodybuilding

1879
01:45:36,960 --> 01:45:42,720
population, um, because it helps with strength and power powerlifting as well.

1880
01:45:42,720 --> 01:45:46,480
Um, so we can see improvements in strength and power because it's providing that first

1881
01:45:46,480 --> 01:45:48,700
six seconds fuel source.

1882
01:45:48,700 --> 01:45:51,520
So we get an extra rep, we get an extra sprint.

1883
01:45:51,520 --> 01:45:57,440
Um, it is not a steroid, it's three amino acids, um, that can help with, uh, like I

1884
01:45:57,440 --> 01:46:01,840
said, strength and power, but there's more emerging evidence that it can help with mental

1885
01:46:01,840 --> 01:46:04,560
fatigue and sleep deprived populations.

1886
01:46:04,560 --> 01:46:06,000
Firefighters.

1887
01:46:06,000 --> 01:46:11,360
Um, so, and there was another recent study that showed that it improved occupational

1888
01:46:11,360 --> 01:46:17,800
performance when combined with pro-carb powder, uh, whey protein isolate and, uh, five grams

1889
01:46:17,800 --> 01:46:23,440
of creatine monohydrate post-workout, uh, three weeks prior to an occupational battery.

1890
01:46:23,440 --> 01:46:30,480
So, um, application, uh, that I love to talk to, I want recruits to consider, I don't force

1891
01:46:30,480 --> 01:46:34,480
them because, um, the main side effect is GI distress.

1892
01:46:34,480 --> 01:46:36,200
Like it's kind of a sandy substance.

1893
01:46:36,200 --> 01:46:39,560
It kind of sits in your tummy weird for some people.

1894
01:46:39,560 --> 01:46:44,480
Um, so, but overall it's a pretty safe supplement for many.

1895
01:46:44,480 --> 01:46:49,800
I like recruits to consider taking it about a month before fire suppression.

1896
01:46:49,800 --> 01:46:53,180
It doesn't hurt to take it at the beginning of the academy or leading into the academy

1897
01:46:53,180 --> 01:46:57,720
of suppressions at the beginning, um, so that they can get that extra edge because the reality

1898
01:46:57,720 --> 01:47:02,160
is, is when they get to suppression, they're, they're, they're already frazzled, right?

1899
01:47:02,160 --> 01:47:03,240
They're learning a new skill.

1900
01:47:03,240 --> 01:47:04,240
People are yelling at them.

1901
01:47:04,240 --> 01:47:07,200
They've already messed up, you know, the hose bed for the 50 millionth time.

1902
01:47:07,200 --> 01:47:12,280
Like let's just knock a little bit of that performance stress out of the way, right?

1903
01:47:12,280 --> 01:47:17,840
But, uh, also just the general firefighter population, I think it, it has benefits from

1904
01:47:17,840 --> 01:47:21,640
the brain standpoint and then also from a physical performance standpoint.

1905
01:47:21,640 --> 01:47:27,920
In terms of quantity, we are looking usually three to five, potentially up to 10, uh, grams

1906
01:47:27,920 --> 01:47:33,960
of creatine per day through a powder capsule or gummy.

1907
01:47:33,960 --> 01:47:36,880
And um, you take that every day for forever.

1908
01:47:36,880 --> 01:47:39,600
Even when you don't work out, I don't care if it's in your pre-workout, you need to have

1909
01:47:39,600 --> 01:47:42,880
a regular creatine as well.

1910
01:47:42,880 --> 01:47:48,080
Because that's basically topping off that fuel source in the muscle, um, to get that

1911
01:47:48,080 --> 01:47:50,040
extra rep.

1912
01:47:50,040 --> 01:47:56,960
This is old science, I'm sure, but I remember, um, the conversation that creatine would help

1913
01:47:56,960 --> 01:48:03,720
draw hydration into the muscle and therefore you had to be careful as far as dehydration,

1914
01:48:03,720 --> 01:48:07,120
especially, you know, if you're thinking about someone who's going to be in bunker gear,

1915
01:48:07,120 --> 01:48:14,400
is that still, um, uh, you know, a legitimate thought process or has that been debunked?

1916
01:48:14,400 --> 01:48:15,720
That's been debunked.

1917
01:48:15,720 --> 01:48:17,240
That mechanism is accurate.

1918
01:48:17,240 --> 01:48:23,200
However, they're considering it as a protective effect, um, having that additional water refuge

1919
01:48:23,200 --> 01:48:24,360
in the muscles.

1920
01:48:24,360 --> 01:48:28,240
Also my firefighters, when they start taking it and their chest starts to feel like a little

1921
01:48:28,240 --> 01:48:31,280
bigger and their arms start to feel a little bigger, they're like, this is awesome.

1922
01:48:31,280 --> 01:48:32,280
I look huge.

1923
01:48:32,280 --> 01:48:34,760
Um, so they like that.

1924
01:48:34,760 --> 01:48:37,960
Um, the other thing that's debunked is rhabdo.

1925
01:48:37,960 --> 01:48:42,480
So that's been like there in the nineties, everybody thought creatine would cause rhabdo.

1926
01:48:42,480 --> 01:48:47,040
Um, but what they didn't look into was in those case studies, uh, the, uh, anabolic

1927
01:48:47,040 --> 01:48:51,800
steroids that the case study was on.

1928
01:48:51,800 --> 01:48:55,920
So don't do anabolic steroids if you don't want to get rhabdo.

1929
01:48:55,920 --> 01:49:00,760
So anabolic steroids and statins are two big things that can make rhabdo happen.

1930
01:49:00,760 --> 01:49:01,760
Okay.

1931
01:49:01,760 --> 01:49:02,760
Or higher risk.

1932
01:49:02,760 --> 01:49:03,760
Brilliant.

1933
01:49:03,760 --> 01:49:05,840
All right, well, I'm going to go to some closing questions.

1934
01:49:05,840 --> 01:49:10,320
Just before I do, is there anything else you want to make sure that we do discuss?

1935
01:49:10,320 --> 01:49:13,280
No, I mean, I think we covered everything.

1936
01:49:13,280 --> 01:49:17,640
I just really want to say like, you know, if you're really struggling from a dietary

1937
01:49:17,640 --> 01:49:21,560
perspective, maybe lower the bar a little bit, but also keep yourself accountable to

1938
01:49:21,560 --> 01:49:24,160
continue slowly raising the bar.

1939
01:49:24,160 --> 01:49:25,160
Right.

1940
01:49:25,160 --> 01:49:30,600
Um, it's okay to start with fast food, frozen food, packaged food, but the goal is to eventually

1941
01:49:30,600 --> 01:49:35,440
progress to a more whole foods approach or maybe some frozen food, just to make sure

1942
01:49:35,440 --> 01:49:40,840
that you know, you are optimizing your performance and your energy levels and longevity overall.

1943
01:49:40,840 --> 01:49:41,840
Beautiful.

1944
01:49:41,840 --> 01:49:42,840
All right.

1945
01:49:42,840 --> 01:49:46,280
Well, then the first of the closing questions, is there a book or other books that you love

1946
01:49:46,280 --> 01:49:47,280
to recommend?

1947
01:49:47,280 --> 01:49:51,000
It can be related to our discussion today or completely unrelated.

1948
01:49:51,000 --> 01:49:52,560
Oh yeah.

1949
01:49:52,560 --> 01:49:56,980
I, you know, what's horrible is I've over-scheduled myself so much lately that I haven't been

1950
01:49:56,980 --> 01:50:01,040
reading because it hurts my brain, like books, but I'm trying to change that.

1951
01:50:01,040 --> 01:50:03,360
I asked for some books for Christmas.

1952
01:50:03,360 --> 01:50:05,240
But I do think the Spark one is a good one.

1953
01:50:05,240 --> 01:50:07,360
I think the Spark one is a great book.

1954
01:50:07,360 --> 01:50:08,360
I can't remember what it is.

1955
01:50:08,360 --> 01:50:09,360
It's Spark.

1956
01:50:09,360 --> 01:50:15,640
I can't remember the subtitle or the, but I think especially for Academy instructors,

1957
01:50:15,640 --> 01:50:20,400
or parents, it seems unrelated, but it really talks about the environment and the importance

1958
01:50:20,400 --> 01:50:27,160
of physical activity in, you know, not only our kids' brain power, but just their overall

1959
01:50:27,160 --> 01:50:28,160
longevity.

1960
01:50:28,160 --> 01:50:29,160
Beautiful.

1961
01:50:29,160 --> 01:50:31,120
What about films and documentaries?

1962
01:50:31,120 --> 01:50:41,200
Oh, you don't want to ask me about that because most of the stuff I watch is real housewives.

1963
01:50:41,200 --> 01:50:44,480
Which city do you find the most disgusting housewives?

1964
01:50:44,480 --> 01:50:46,440
Because I know they're all horrible people.

1965
01:50:46,440 --> 01:50:47,440
They're all horrible.

1966
01:50:47,440 --> 01:50:51,400
You know, when I sit there and I watch it, my six month old is like looking at the screen

1967
01:50:51,400 --> 01:50:55,680
and clapping and I'm like, we're learning interpersonal communication skills.

1968
01:50:55,680 --> 01:50:57,240
This is narcissism.

1969
01:50:57,240 --> 01:50:58,240
Yeah.

1970
01:50:58,240 --> 01:50:59,240
Narcissism.

1971
01:50:59,240 --> 01:51:02,320
No, I think Salt Lake's a rough one.

1972
01:51:02,320 --> 01:51:04,120
I really don't watch a lot of TV.

1973
01:51:04,120 --> 01:51:09,440
I actually really like YouTube, which sounds ridiculous because I think if you find the

1974
01:51:09,440 --> 01:51:13,240
right people on YouTube, there's a lot of very short videos and my attention span is

1975
01:51:13,240 --> 01:51:15,760
just as bad as the firefighters.

1976
01:51:15,760 --> 01:51:17,120
So I like Layne Norton's YouTube.

1977
01:51:17,120 --> 01:51:24,440
She does a really good job of putting up the evidence for muscle building, general health,

1978
01:51:24,440 --> 01:51:26,880
that kind of thing from a health perspective.

1979
01:51:26,880 --> 01:51:31,240
And then I also like looking at a lot of the business podcasts or social media podcasts

1980
01:51:31,240 --> 01:51:36,520
to learn how to talk to firefighters and break things down a little bit better for them.

1981
01:51:36,520 --> 01:51:37,520
Perfect.

1982
01:51:37,520 --> 01:51:38,520
All right.

1983
01:51:38,520 --> 01:51:41,560
Well, the next question, is there a person that you recommend to come on this podcast

1984
01:51:41,560 --> 01:51:46,240
as a guest to speak to the first responders, military and associated professionals of the

1985
01:51:46,240 --> 01:51:47,240
world?

1986
01:51:47,240 --> 01:51:49,200
Yeah, I have lots of recommendations.

1987
01:51:49,200 --> 01:51:54,040
Well, but I know you're interested in that mandatory fitness testing and I think you

1988
01:51:54,040 --> 01:51:59,840
need Jake Patton, who's our strength coach to come on because he can give you hours of

1989
01:51:59,840 --> 01:52:00,840
content.

1990
01:52:00,840 --> 01:52:01,840
Brilliant.

1991
01:52:01,840 --> 01:52:02,840
Yeah.

1992
01:52:02,840 --> 01:52:05,400
Katie Dennison's a firefighter who's a strength coach.

1993
01:52:05,400 --> 01:52:06,740
She's one of my very good friends.

1994
01:52:06,740 --> 01:52:10,540
She does great with the CPAT mentoring conversation.

1995
01:52:10,540 --> 01:52:12,040
She's brilliant on that.

1996
01:52:12,040 --> 01:52:14,800
And then Vanessa Frost Pedrahita from Flugerville.

1997
01:52:14,800 --> 01:52:19,600
She's a great strength coach for firefighters.

1998
01:52:19,600 --> 01:52:21,640
There's a lot of really great professionals out there.

1999
01:52:21,640 --> 01:52:25,800
It's just making sure that people know they exist.

2000
01:52:25,800 --> 01:52:26,800
Exactly.

2001
01:52:26,800 --> 01:52:27,800
100%.

2002
01:52:27,800 --> 01:52:28,800
All right.

2003
01:52:28,800 --> 01:52:30,960
Well, then the last question for you, make sure everyone knows where to find you and

2004
01:52:30,960 --> 01:52:33,440
then we'll talk about rescue ID as well.

2005
01:52:33,440 --> 01:52:35,640
What do you do to decompress?

2006
01:52:35,640 --> 01:52:44,600
Well, I just had a therapy session right before this on how I need to learn how to do that.

2007
01:52:44,600 --> 01:52:46,080
I really struggled with that.

2008
01:52:46,080 --> 01:52:49,920
I love working and I think that's part of the reason why I work well with firefighters

2009
01:52:49,920 --> 01:52:53,840
is I'm obsessed with my job, which is them, unfortunately.

2010
01:52:53,840 --> 01:52:55,600
So I'm actually working on that.

2011
01:52:55,600 --> 01:53:00,120
I'm working with a therapist now to kind of help teach me how to take a break because

2012
01:53:00,120 --> 01:53:01,720
I have a hard time with it.

2013
01:53:01,720 --> 01:53:06,320
So I would say right now that's been working out or going on walks with my husband or my

2014
01:53:06,320 --> 01:53:07,320
daughter.

2015
01:53:07,320 --> 01:53:08,320
Brilliant.

2016
01:53:08,320 --> 01:53:09,320
All right.

2017
01:53:09,320 --> 01:53:10,320
Well, let's talk about rescue ID then.

2018
01:53:10,320 --> 01:53:14,560
So tell me what made you create the company and then what are the things that you offer

2019
01:53:14,560 --> 01:53:16,160
everyone listening?

2020
01:53:16,160 --> 01:53:17,160
Yeah.

2021
01:53:17,160 --> 01:53:21,160
So my friend, I was working with a large department, right?

2022
01:53:21,160 --> 01:53:25,840
My friend Katie was like, oh, hey, like my friend wants you to maybe teach an academy.

2023
01:53:25,840 --> 01:53:30,800
And next thing you know, it was like, I started a rescue RD just to educate firefighters on

2024
01:53:30,800 --> 01:53:33,280
nutrition and I have all these places.

2025
01:53:33,280 --> 01:53:35,920
This department calls me and they want me to come out and do a smoothie.

2026
01:53:35,920 --> 01:53:40,440
This conference wants me to teach and it's just kind of exploded from there because I

2027
01:53:40,440 --> 01:53:45,440
feel like I said, like there are just no dietitians who can really break it down in firefighter

2028
01:53:45,440 --> 01:53:46,440
language.

2029
01:53:46,440 --> 01:53:49,600
Well, there's not no, there's a couple that are really good.

2030
01:53:49,600 --> 01:53:58,080
But so basically that's why I started rescue RD was to bring nutrition in firefighter language

2031
01:53:58,080 --> 01:54:03,680
to the fire service to potentially progress them into better eating habits, which we know

2032
01:54:03,680 --> 01:54:06,280
has been a struggle for years.

2033
01:54:06,280 --> 01:54:08,560
Now it talks to me about the cookbook.

2034
01:54:08,560 --> 01:54:09,640
Yeah.

2035
01:54:09,640 --> 01:54:14,680
So fire engineering, I just signed a contract for a recipe book.

2036
01:54:14,680 --> 01:54:21,400
I have a free recipe book, by the way, that is like the older sister of this recipe book

2037
01:54:21,400 --> 01:54:22,680
on my website rescue RD.

2038
01:54:22,680 --> 01:54:27,360
If you join my email list, which is the email is sends out a bunch of firefighter specific

2039
01:54:27,360 --> 01:54:28,360
tips and tricks.

2040
01:54:28,360 --> 01:54:29,920
So it's a great option.

2041
01:54:29,920 --> 01:54:34,500
And the recipe book is five to $6 a head, probably now five, six to eight, let's be

2042
01:54:34,500 --> 01:54:37,120
honest with this economy.

2043
01:54:37,120 --> 01:54:40,960
For shifts of six, 10 and 14 half a pound of protein per person.

2044
01:54:40,960 --> 01:54:47,760
And it's going to be a review of the literature in firefight, like of firefighter diets.

2045
01:54:47,760 --> 01:54:51,160
And that gets firefighters all clammy, like that's nerd speak, right?

2046
01:54:51,160 --> 01:54:54,600
But this is going to be broken down into firefighter language.

2047
01:54:54,600 --> 01:54:57,320
Looking at the Mediterranean diets use in firefighters.

2048
01:54:57,320 --> 01:54:58,960
How do I eat better when I'm on shift?

2049
01:54:58,960 --> 01:55:00,440
What do I pack in a go back?

2050
01:55:00,440 --> 01:55:05,000
All of those practical tactical with the evidence backing it.

2051
01:55:05,000 --> 01:55:10,160
That's going to be potentially, I mean, I guess, you know how the publishing situation

2052
01:55:10,160 --> 01:55:16,120
goes maybe 20, 20 to 26, 20, 27 is when that'll release.

2053
01:55:16,120 --> 01:55:20,120
But in the meantime, firefighter nation gave me a podcast.

2054
01:55:20,120 --> 01:55:22,960
So you can see me there starting January 10.

2055
01:55:22,960 --> 01:55:23,960
Beautiful.

2056
01:55:23,960 --> 01:55:25,960
What's the name of the podcast?

2057
01:55:25,960 --> 01:55:26,960
Fueling fire.

2058
01:55:26,960 --> 01:55:28,740
And that's going to be the book's name as well.

2059
01:55:28,740 --> 01:55:37,760
So I also have workshops that I bring to departments and as a bonus, if you sign up or book a workshop

2060
01:55:37,760 --> 01:55:44,800
by February 28th, I will give QuickBytes for free, which QuickBytes is 10, 12, 10 minute

2061
01:55:44,800 --> 01:55:51,960
videos you can put into Target or Vector Solutions on hot topics in nutrition from creatine monohydrate

2062
01:55:51,960 --> 01:55:55,640
to how do I sleep and what do I pack in a go bag?

2063
01:55:55,640 --> 01:55:59,040
So it prolongs the benefit of that workshop for your department.

2064
01:55:59,040 --> 01:56:00,040
Beautiful.

2065
01:56:00,040 --> 01:56:01,440
And that'll be free.

2066
01:56:01,440 --> 01:56:02,440
Excellent.

2067
01:56:02,440 --> 01:56:03,880
Well, I want to thank you so much.

2068
01:56:03,880 --> 01:56:05,560
It's been such an interesting conversation.

2069
01:56:05,560 --> 01:56:08,320
I tried not to hit the regular Q&A.

2070
01:56:08,320 --> 01:56:11,760
I've heard you on some other podcasts and so it's going to go a little bit more into

2071
01:56:11,760 --> 01:56:13,520
the principles again.

2072
01:56:13,520 --> 01:56:17,920
So I want to thank you so, so much for being so generous with your time and coming on the

2073
01:56:17,920 --> 01:56:19,920
Behind the Shield podcast today.

2074
01:56:19,920 --> 01:56:20,920
Yeah.

2075
01:56:20,920 --> 01:56:21,920
So excited to be here.

2076
01:56:21,920 --> 01:56:31,280
Thank you so much for having me.