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To learn more about Thorne, go to episode 323 of the Behind the Shield podcast with Joel

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Totoro and Wes Barnett.

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Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast.

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As always, my name is James Gearing and this week I have an extremely unusual episode for

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you.

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The recording you're going to hear is actually the Firehouse Leadership podcast and the host

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Josh Chase, who's the man behind Jumpseat Leadership, was also my guest on episode 744.

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But this time we turned the microphone around and he was interviewing me.

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But I wanted to put it out as one of the Behind the Shield episodes because as you will hear,

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Josh is actually testifying a huge amount after reading my new book, Kinder.

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When I wrote this book, it's not a heroic firefighter story.

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It's so much more than that.

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It's a human story that obviously you see through the firefighters eyes, but there's

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a multi-generational trauma story.

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There's the firefighters own healing journey.

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And ultimately it's about putting hope into people that are struggling and realizing that

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they can get out of this and become a better version of themselves.

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So who better than really be a voice of this book than someone who read it and was moved

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to the point where he reached out and wanted to tell me about this.

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So I can obviously post on social media.

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I mean, anyone who's written a book is proud of it and obviously trying to put it out there.

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But this really uncovers what this book is about and the impact that I was trying to

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have when I was writing it because the way it moved Josh is the way I hope it will move

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each and every one of you when you read it, listen to it or whatever medium that you ultimately

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get.

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So without further ado, I introduced to you Josh Chase and in this episode, the firehouse

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leadership podcast.

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All right.

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What's up everybody?

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Welcome back to the firehouse leadership podcast.

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Today I'm doing a solo episode.

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Jared is at work slaying the dragon.

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Well, probably not because he's a battalion chief now and he just rides the car.

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So there's no more firefighting for him.

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But anyway, honestly guys, I have a really special guest today.

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It's an honor to have him on the podcast.

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Written a couple of books and he runs the behind the shield podcast is a huge advocate

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for the men and women in the fire service.

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He's honestly changing the industry when it comes to a lot of things.

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And I'm going to let him do his own bio here in a second, but his new book kinder really

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not only struck a chord with me.

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I don't read a lot of books that are life changing.

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And I can honestly say that this book has changed my life and set me on a trajectory

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where I'm actually tackling some of the mental health issues that I didn't even know that

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I had.

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And I got five years to retirement at this point and it's showing me I want to retire

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healthy, whole and intact.

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And I just wanted to throw that out there right at the beginning.

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So you guys understand how impactful this book is for me and how impactful this podcast

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is actually going to be for you.

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So James, thank you for being on the show.

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Go ahead and tell everybody a little bit about who you are, what you do and what we're going

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to talk about today.

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Absolutely.

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Well, thank you again for having me on and for people listening.

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Josh was on my podcast.

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I don't remember the number, but if you Google it, you will see it there as well.

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An amazing conversation.

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I want to throw that your way before I start yabbering about myself.

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I, as you probably can tell, I'm not originally from around these parts.

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I'm from England and moved to the US when I was 26.

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I dreamed of becoming a firefighter when I was young.

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They told me I was colorblind.

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So I just wrote it off because they said you can't be a pilot, firefighter, all the things.

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So I fumbled around like a lot of people do and they're kind of real, calling is kind

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of cut from under them.

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And then I had a realization at 26 when I moved to the US that I can see color, not

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the sharpest tool in the box.

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It took me that long to figure it out.

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And so therefore maybe challenge what I was told before.

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So anyway, long story short, went to fire Academy in Orlando.

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My first department was Hialeah, one of the suburbs of Miami.

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Then I went out West for a few years.

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There was a tiller man on a truck in Anaheim, California, which is still to this day, the

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best seat in the fire service hands down.

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And then my son's mother and I had my little boy.

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So she wanted to move back to the East Coast to be around with the family.

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So then I ended up in the Orlando area for the last 10 years of my career.

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I'll give you a kind of segue into the why the podcast.

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About 10 years into my career, I spent two years going to numerous firefighter funerals

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are actual people I knew, you know, my friends and having a background in exercise physiology

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as a coach, as an athlete.

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I knew that we weren't asking the right questions in the fire service.

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I knew we weren't going to the right experts.

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You know, a lot of us, for example, go to someone who's in the fire service that does

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personal training on the side or, you know, whatever it is, rather than the leading experts

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in the country that do something all day, every day.

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And that's their entire profession.

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So I was looking for a podcast myself back in 2016, and I just couldn't find one back

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then that was specifically firefighter health, mental health, physical health.

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And so they say, you know, well, if you can't find it, that's just trying to do it yourself.

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Oh, yeah.

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So that's what I did.

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It literally was eight years yesterday that I released my first episode.

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And yeah, here we are now, six million downloads and still pushing out podcasts.

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So clearly there's a need for this information and it's completely free.

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That's what I love about podcasts.

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Most are.

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So it's free for anyone around the planet.

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If you have internet and you can understand English, whether you're in Durban, South Africa,

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or whether you're in Nepal, you know, you can learn from these same people that we get

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to talk to.

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Yeah.

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So, I mean, millions of downloads.

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I mean, I think you've interviewed well over a thousand people now.

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Has it surprised you?

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You know, like you said, you did it eight year anniversary yesterday.

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Congratulations.

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You started the podcast.

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There wasn't any, has it really, has it surprised you?

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Were you expecting, I'm not even in call it success.

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I'll call it impact.

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Were you expecting the amount of impact when you started the podcast?

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Expecting no, hoping yes.

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Okay.

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You are lit when you are going to funerals.

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And this is one thing I mean, I talk, I'm more aggressive these days because after eight

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years of putting information out, you can see who's just simply ignoring what we need

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to change.

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And then I'll give absolute grace to people that just aren't educated and they're still

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kind of unaware of this information.

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But when you go to a firefighter's funeral, when you hear the bagpipes and the last call,

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you see the flag drape coffin and then the flag and the helmet are handed to the family

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as they wail.

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To me that is there anything more tragically impactful than that?

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No.

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So that's what I wanted to stop.

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And so piece by piece, and I look at the podcast almost like a court case, you're layering

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the information and it might be to help you with your obesity or it might be a mental

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health thing or it might be the firefighter work week.

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But when you, the more guests you have, the more your hypothesis is reaffirmed by these

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true leading experts.

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And if you think about a Venn diagram, it could be a Navy SEAL, a psychologist, a surfer

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from South Africa, but in the middle is the truth.

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So this is what's been really powerful is as it's kind of unfolded, there have just

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been some irrefutable truths that have come out, but I can really put my heart and soul

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behind and this is what we're seeing.

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And as you kind of alluded to with the 2472, there is no debate like that is the solution

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to the crisis that we have at the moment.

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Not the only one, but the first thing that we need to do.

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Yeah.

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No, that's great.

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I think one thing that I've recognized, and if you guys have not checked out the podcast,

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you've not heard about what James is doing, he's more than worth a follow.

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And one thing that he just said that's absolutely true is as I've listened throughout the podcast,

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there's these common themes of truth and it's not just James telling you what the truth

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is.

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He has real experts on the podcast that really are talking about the truth as you can relate

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to them as firefighters.

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I'm seeing myself in these podcasts and it's not what I'm finding is the truth is the truth,

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regardless whether we agree with it or not, how we get to the truth and how we accomplish

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it.

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He's got some solutions for that stuff too.

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And a lot of the times we just think it's too hard to accept the truth, so we just don't.

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And that's what I'm finding with a lot of this stuff.

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But if you want truth that surrounds some stuff in the fire service when it comes to

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actual issues, I'll call them of humanity and things that you're dealing with, his podcast

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is an awesome one to check out.

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So you wrote a different book, we're gonna talk about kinder today.

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So I did read kinder, which is really what we're going to get into.

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But then I went back and read one more like it was sitting on my bookshelf and I realized

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I just never read it.

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But I mean, you probably don't think so because people are typically humble about their writings,

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but you are a phenomenal author.

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I went back and read one more light and I thought I can't even believe I had just this

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book sitting on my shelf.

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And one more light kind of gets into really what you just kind of been talking about with

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the schedules and the mental health, you know, and the wellness.

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It was a great read into kind of an introduction into somebody who maybe doesn't know anything

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about what's going on in the fire, sir, for all the solutions.

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Can you talk a little bit about one more light?

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What forced you to write it and what you've seen from that book?

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Yeah, absolutely.

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Well, thank you for that.

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It was very kind.

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It's funny with it sitting on the shelf as well.

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This is what people don't understand when you write a book.

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And I know you've been down this road yourself as well, but you pour your heart and soul

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into it and you fight the imposter syndrome that's constantly in your ear saying you can't

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write, you know, no one's going to read this.

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This is shit.

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And you do it anyway.

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But then you release it.

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And just like all of us, like I'm looking at a pile of books now that I still have to

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read.

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You know, it normally does.

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So then you're like just chomping at the bit for people to read it and give feedback, which

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is why obviously we kind of will get to that, but why you lit, I think you were the first

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person that reached out and I was like this, you know, what an incredible testimony to

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get.

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But with the first one, one more light.

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The origin story is quite interesting.

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It's almost around the same time as when the podcast started.

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I was at my last department and we weren't on a call, but it wasn't like anything, you

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know, traumatic or critical, but we came back at, I forget what it was like, let's say two,

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three in the morning.

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And it was around the time where we had just started talking about suicide.

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We had a chief here, David Dangerfield, kind of on the East coast, and he took his own

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life and before he did, he left a Facebook post saying PTSD is real.

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And it just, you know, it went viral and rightly so.

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And so this was kind of banging around in my mind now about this whole mental health

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crisis.

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And so I was, I can see it now.

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I couldn't sleep.

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And so I got up and I'd created a website for the podcast and I just started writing

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a blog and I took a quote from the film, burn the documentary and the quote was one of the

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engineers from Detroit.

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He said, um, simply said, I wish my eyes could forget what my, sorry.

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I wish my mind could forget what my eyes have seen.

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Yeah.

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I remember that.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So I wrote, you know, it's just, and again, just kind of like how one more light ended

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up being.

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You really want to engage someone.

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You've got to start with a story.

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So I started with, um, you know, I can't even remember what the story is about now, but,

239
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um, and then there was a takeaway, you know, from the few things that I'd learned already

240
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at that point.

241
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And so then over the next few years, I wrote a few more blogs.

242
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There's one like how to kill a firefighter and five easy steps.

243
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Um, so which is time to go check that one out.

244
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Yeah.

245
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I think actually a rerelease thing.

246
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It's just like putting it out again because it still talks about the same thing.

247
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Which is sad, honestly, that we're, we've made so much progress, but we also haven't

248
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at the same time.

249
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Yeah, exactly.

250
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So, um, but back to, I kind of jumped completely back to that blog.

251
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I posted it, you know, shared it on social media, went to bed and when I woke up, it

252
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had taken off.

253
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And this, I mean, I don't know how many hundreds of thousands of times it was, it was read

254
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ultimately, but that's when I was like, Oh, okay.

255
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So there is power in writing because I wasn't a writer at all.

256
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So over, you know, like I said, the next couple of years or so I wrote a few more and then

257
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ironically, well, I guess it was, it was like a year before COVID I'd thought about maybe

258
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writing a book and I'd kind of attempted it and it was just terrible.

259
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And I'm like, all right, forget it.

260
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So I just put it away.

261
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And then right before COVID hit, ironically, something just hit me and I was like, all

262
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right, now I'm going to write.

263
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And so I took some of these blogs and expanded on them and then wrote extra chapters, but

264
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I didn't want it to be a biography because, you know, I don't consider my story any different

265
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than most of us in the fire service.

266
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But what I wanted to do was take stories from my career or my life and use them as a kind

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of segue, the door opener to then talk about, cause each chapter is almost like a short

268
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story.

269
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Let's talk about sleep deprivation.

270
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Let's talk about mental health.

271
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Let's talk about overcoming injury.

272
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Let's talk about the obesity crisis.

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So the story kind of paints the picture.

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And then I go into the takeaways, which was always credited to the people that I had on

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the show, you know, I'm not going to, Oh, and I do this thing called foundation training

276
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and it was invented by me.

277
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No, it was Eric Goodman.

278
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So, um, so that's what I wanted to do.

279
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So that was really how one more light came about.

280
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And the ultimate goal was if you're in the fire service, you truly have, you know, you

281
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can relate to most of these stories and then you're like, Oh, you know, I can fix my back

282
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without surgery and pain pills.

283
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Okay.

284
00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:18,880
So you look at foundation training.

285
00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:22,960
But if you are outside the fire service, if you were a firefighter spouse, you know, whatever

286
00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:28,500
the other lens, you now have cracked the door on what we actually do.

287
00:16:28,500 --> 00:16:32,360
And obviously kind of kinder then, you know, expands on that a lot more, but that's what

288
00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:37,420
I wanted to do as well for people to read it and literally say, I had no idea you guys

289
00:16:37,420 --> 00:16:38,420
went through this.

290
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I had no idea about the sleep deprivation, the mandatory overtime, you know, all the

291
00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:45,400
things that we actually live.

292
00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:46,400
So yeah, that was it.

293
00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:50,280
So it was kind of interesting, you know, from a single blog post from this, you know, monkey

294
00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:55,500
mind that would not let me sleep to ultimately become in my first book.

295
00:16:55,500 --> 00:17:00,120
You know, that's crazy because I just told somebody the other day, like all great things

296
00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:04,680
are all great revolutions or movements start with one person saying enough, you know, it's

297
00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:09,680
just burning in their heart and either they said no or enough.

298
00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:14,360
And you know, it's you get to a point where you literally cannot take it anymore.

299
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You know, you can't sleep and you know, I get to travel a little bit and people are

300
00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:19,080
like, well, how do you find your passion?

301
00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:21,640
And I'm like, I feel like that's actually really easy.

302
00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:22,760
People just don't realize it.

303
00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:27,360
You know, it's the things that you're consistently complaining about, you know, and I always

304
00:17:27,360 --> 00:17:30,580
say like complaining is a form of misdirected passion.

305
00:17:30,580 --> 00:17:34,640
Like take those things that you're complaining about and I guarantee you, you will find your

306
00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:36,120
passion somewhere in there.

307
00:17:36,120 --> 00:17:39,360
And I use complaining loosely because complaining is always seen as a negative thing.

308
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I think complaining really is comes from a place of wanting to fix a problem and not

309
00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:46,000
knowing how.

310
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:48,800
Now over the years, if you just complain and you never embrace that, you're eventually

311
00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:51,600
going to be seen as a whiner and nobody will pay attention to you.

312
00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:55,800
But you know, so I don't want people to think, you know, oh, he was complaining.

313
00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:56,800
That's not what I'm talking about.

314
00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:58,520
He found his passion in this stuff.

315
00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:03,640
And one thing I love that you said about One More Light, I'm so excited to get to kinder.

316
00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,340
I'm trying to just do, do you do diligence?

317
00:18:06,340 --> 00:18:10,960
Because I think this is, it's a great, it's a great step into kinder.

318
00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:13,000
And honestly, this is a leadership podcast.

319
00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:16,120
And if you're listening to this and you're an officer or you are a leader in the fire

320
00:18:16,120 --> 00:18:21,800
service in any right, One More Light would be a great resource for you to read, to understand

321
00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,200
more about the people that are working for you.

322
00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,680
And it would be a great read for you to hand to your people.

323
00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:31,640
Because I think one of the things we do forget in the fire service is we forget we're humans,

324
00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:35,280
which is really weird to say, but you go to work, you put the shirt on and your next thing

325
00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:37,040
you know, we're like, we're just at work.

326
00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:41,400
And I'm like, oh no, I'm a, I'm actually a husband, you know, and I'm a father and those

327
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:43,000
are my two biggest priorities.

328
00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:47,500
And I happen to be a firefighter 10 days a month for 24 hour shifts, you know, so One

329
00:18:47,500 --> 00:18:50,200
More Light is a great tool.

330
00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:53,560
You didn't know anything about sleep deprivation or maybe you knew it existed or you've been

331
00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:55,120
feeling it.

332
00:18:55,120 --> 00:18:57,840
One More Light really dives into the meat of these things.

333
00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:00,960
And I think that's one thing I loved about it when I dove back into it is I could see

334
00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:06,480
myself in every aspect of the book, but it not only gave me, it not only validated what

335
00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:08,960
I've been going through my whole career.

336
00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:12,840
You brought solutions to the problem with the experts that you've had on the show through

337
00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:17,120
the stories that you put in the book, and it gave me solutions.

338
00:19:17,120 --> 00:19:23,440
So it wasn't, you know, the 24 72, it's probably going to come up 64 times on this podcast

339
00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:27,280
because it is the solution for the schedule, you know, and that will it solve everything?

340
00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:31,840
No, but it'll solve a lot of issues that we do have and a lot of, I don't even think they're

341
00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:33,160
underlying issues anymore.

342
00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:35,640
They're on the surface and they're manifesting in many different ways.

343
00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:38,280
So they're not even underlying anymore.

344
00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:40,720
The biggest thing is people want to argue about how we would do it.

345
00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:44,520
And I'm like, let's, let's not argue about how we would do it.

346
00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:47,840
Let's get into the fact that let's get an agreement that this is the best schedule and

347
00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:51,000
then we can find out how but if you're going to argue with me on how are you going to do

348
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,920
it, we can't even get to how we're going to implement it.

349
00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:57,840
And I think that's the biggest pushback I've seen with a lot of people with the 24 72 is

350
00:19:57,840 --> 00:19:58,840
we could never do that.

351
00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:02,960
And I'm like, those words right there are why it will never get done if you keep saying

352
00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:03,960
that.

353
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:08,800
I was saying to someone yesterday, imagine being a firefighter, you know, you pull up,

354
00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:13,840
you pull the cross lay charge the line, and then you go, Oh, no, the door's locked.

355
00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:16,600
Oh, well, let's just go home.

356
00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:17,600
You know what I mean?

357
00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:21,800
Great analogy, you know, like, force the door, find a window, you know, whatever the thing

358
00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:27,740
is, and the irony with with all the pushback I've got, there are so many departments now

359
00:20:27,740 --> 00:20:30,540
that are going to or have gone to this.

360
00:20:30,540 --> 00:20:35,440
And I've got to say how much admiration I have for them, because every one that I know

361
00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:40,840
so far that is going or gone, there are people that have said, let me know if I can help

362
00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:42,560
another department do the same thing.

363
00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:43,560
Yep.

364
00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:45,720
So the answer is, how do how are we going to do that?

365
00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:51,240
Ask Gainesville, ask Pasco, ask Boynton Beach, ask Palm Beach County, ask Destin, they're

366
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:52,240
all going to it.

367
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:56,480
And they've got, you know, big, small, wealthy, not so not so affluent.

368
00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:58,680
They'll be an apples to apples comparison.

369
00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:00,840
And if they can do it, you can do it.

370
00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:01,840
Yeah.

371
00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:05,120
And I think the biggest thing that we're going to see is the departments that are picking

372
00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:09,240
up the schedule are going to see an influx of people that are applying because I can

373
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:15,240
tell you right now, if there is a local department that said, Hey, we'll take you right now,

374
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:19,080
lateral transfer, same pay, better schedule.

375
00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:23,780
I love where I've worked and I'm a pretty loyal guy, but that might force me to work

376
00:21:23,780 --> 00:21:28,360
somewhere else because you're instantly telling me that my work week will get better and I

377
00:21:28,360 --> 00:21:31,440
can spend more time with my family mentally, physically.

378
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:33,640
It works out better for all of it.

379
00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:35,440
You know, at this point, it's not a paycheck.

380
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:36,880
It's not about being loyal department.

381
00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:39,520
It's about being loyal to myself and my family.

382
00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:44,000
You know, and I think I think the first the first departments that jump on this locally

383
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:48,840
in their area, if you're struggling with recruiting and retention, man, if you can pioneer the

384
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:54,960
way with these schedules, you know, people are harping about pay and give me more money.

385
00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:56,520
I'll be honest.

386
00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:58,760
I can always find a way to make more money.

387
00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:01,760
I can't always find a way to spend more time with my family.

388
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:03,200
You know, I can save money.

389
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:04,200
I can't save time.

390
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:09,560
And imagine if you have a extra day off between and you have, you know, an entrepreneurial

391
00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:11,200
project because that we all do.

392
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:12,200
We've all got some of the other passion.

393
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:13,200
100% people don't understand.

394
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:16,680
You've got another 24 hours and I'm not saying work day and night.

395
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:21,120
That would be stupid, but the kids are at school and you know, your spouse is at work

396
00:22:21,120 --> 00:22:26,680
and you hang drywall or landscape or personal train or, you know, whatever your your passion

397
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:32,120
is and you have dinner with your family, you sleep next to your husband or wife or partner,

398
00:22:32,120 --> 00:22:33,720
then that's fine.

399
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:35,740
These people like, oh, they'll just work more.

400
00:22:35,740 --> 00:22:40,200
That's okay to if you need more money to do something on the side, but do something that

401
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:41,560
you also love to do.

402
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:43,120
That's a parallel tribe.

403
00:22:43,120 --> 00:22:46,040
God forbid the fire service is cut from you.

404
00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:48,240
You have something else to fall back on as well.

405
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:50,080
Yeah, no, I think it's great.

406
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:51,080
All right.

407
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:52,080
I'm not even going to segue.

408
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:53,800
We're going to get into kinder.

409
00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:54,800
Okay.

410
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:55,800
Yeah.

411
00:22:55,800 --> 00:23:03,880
So listen, if one more light was a, you know, more of a nonfiction couple of stories, really

412
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,440
honestly, like I said, helped me in so many ways.

413
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:08,920
It's a book that I recommend now.

414
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:10,640
Kinder I'll be honest guys.

415
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:13,120
So, so kind of James wrote one more light.

416
00:23:13,120 --> 00:23:14,800
I put it on my bookshelf and never read it.

417
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:20,000
It got a whole bunch of stacks that I'm like, I'm going to get to and kinder came out and

418
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:21,200
that pretty cool cover on it.

419
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:22,640
I was like, that's pretty neat book.

420
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:28,160
And I literally, I only picked up the book and opened the book because of I follow James.

421
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:29,160
I followed the podcast.

422
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:30,400
I listened to a lot of his stuff.

423
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:32,120
He's got a good reputation.

424
00:23:32,120 --> 00:23:36,960
So I opened kinder strictly based off of James is a pretty good guy.

425
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:37,960
You've read a new book.

426
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:38,960
I'm an author.

427
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:40,600
I want people to read my stuff.

428
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:47,000
I'm going to be supportive and sit down and read this book to say I was caught off guard

429
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:48,160
is an understatement.

430
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:53,320
I still have not been able to describe and put the words, uh, what this book has done

431
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:54,920
for my life and the trajectory.

432
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:57,680
It's really sent me on.

433
00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:03,080
And um, you know, it's, it's crazy because when I say it caught me off guard, when I

434
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:07,760
opened the book and we're going to get into a little bit of this, um, it's fiction, but

435
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:09,600
it's not fiction.

436
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:15,480
It's uh, and I started to realize as an author and as a reader that James did this on purpose.

437
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:21,080
And within the first, probably half chapter, I was in the book.

438
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:23,440
I was literally the character that was in the book.

439
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:26,100
I was in the book with this guy.

440
00:24:26,100 --> 00:24:30,880
If I was not myself in the scene that I was reading, walking through this book and I quickly

441
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:38,600
understood why this book was fiction because for me, James was actually telling my story.

442
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:43,560
And to say this book grabbed me, um, man, it doesn't even make any sense.

443
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,400
I mean, uh, you know, my family knows me here.

444
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:51,240
People that know me here, I probably cry once a week at a minimum, you know, um, I'm praying

445
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:52,440
for my compassion back.

446
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:54,840
And when you got daughters, you just cry anyway.

447
00:24:54,840 --> 00:25:01,280
Um, you know, so, but, so let's get into, you know, one more light happen.

448
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:03,360
You've been doing your thing in the fire service.

449
00:25:03,360 --> 00:25:07,640
You're where we're all, everybody's done going to firefighter funerals, especially when it

450
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,680
comes to suicides and things that we can prevent.

451
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:12,040
I think that's one of the biggest things.

452
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:13,440
A lot of this stuff is preventable.

453
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:15,200
We're just not preventing it.

454
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:16,800
Self-care is huge.

455
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:21,480
So you write one more light, uh, you're doing the podcast and I know kinder wasn't just

456
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:23,400
something you wrote in a month.

457
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:28,160
How did you get to the point where it was like, Hey, I'm going to write this book.

458
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:32,460
Where did the title come from and why the choice to write a fictional novel based on

459
00:25:32,460 --> 00:25:35,420
non-fiction or non-fiction?

460
00:25:35,420 --> 00:25:40,800
So as I said before, um, one more light was really a collection of short stories.

461
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:44,760
So it's a great toilet book, you know, and it's funny you talking about, um, the chiefs

462
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:46,120
handing it to their people.

463
00:25:46,120 --> 00:25:51,800
People have said that that should be a prerequisite for academies and there is one that has made

464
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:52,800
that.

465
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:59,360
So, um, that made me extremely proud, but because it's a non-fiction, you know, technically

466
00:25:59,360 --> 00:26:08,120
almost short stories, I wanted to fictionalize it so to immerse someone who's a reader into

467
00:26:08,120 --> 00:26:09,960
our world, but I'll be completely honest.

468
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:16,040
I wrote it because I want to make it into a TV show because to me, the question is,

469
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:20,840
all right, you've got podcast audience, you've got non-fiction readers.

470
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:26,760
I've made a fiction book, but where is it that most people consume?

471
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:31,760
If you really want to get to the hearts and minds of the people, it's the screen.

472
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:36,600
So you know, I wrote a book that I hope is, you know, uh, you know, immersive as, as,

473
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:37,600
as you read it.

474
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,760
And it's funny, cause you said about being there, the number of people that have said,

475
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:45,520
like I felt I was, you know, on the side of the road at the firehouse table, you know,

476
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:46,760
they saw themselves in that too.

477
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:51,480
So that that's amazing to hear because again, it's, as you know, when you write, you're

478
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:53,240
writing blind, you have no idea.

479
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,840
People might be like, Oh my God, I just use it as toilet paper.

480
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:56,840
And it was awful.

481
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:57,840
Yeah.

482
00:26:57,840 --> 00:26:58,840
Yeah.

483
00:26:58,840 --> 00:26:59,840
It's terrible.

484
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:00,840
But, um, so that was it.

485
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:06,320
So I wanted to, I wanted to immerse the reader deeply when it's a short story, you know,

486
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:11,240
you've got, you've got the opening story and then you've got the takeaways and then end

487
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:12,240
of the chapter.

488
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:13,240
Okay.

489
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:14,240
Now we're talking about this new thing.

490
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:20,240
I wanted to lead someone in and really paint the picture of firstly what, you know, who

491
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:22,800
we are and what we go through.

492
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:29,280
But I think one of the least discussed things about the fire service is the way we view

493
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:35,920
the world, the perspective that we get behind the proverbial curtain, I would argue is the

494
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:36,920
most important lens.

495
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:38,440
Let's take America, for example.

496
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:45,200
So if you do fire and EMS together, what we see everything from, you know, the homelessness,

497
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:51,200
the addiction, the sex work, the gang, you know, the, you know, the, the poverty, the,

498
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:55,740
you know, the trafficking, I mean, all the things, everyone else is kind of oblivious

499
00:27:55,740 --> 00:27:56,740
to it.

500
00:27:56,740 --> 00:27:59,360
You know, if you're a nine to five, I mean, mean no disrespect.

501
00:27:59,360 --> 00:28:02,000
We're the buffer, obviously law enforcement as well.

502
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:03,000
We're the buffer.

503
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,120
We're, you know, we are behind the curtain.

504
00:28:05,120 --> 00:28:08,240
You guys are enjoying it front of house.

505
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,720
And so what's tragic is we don't have a voice though.

506
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:16,320
There's no Jocko Willink of the fire service kind of storytelling what we see and trying

507
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:21,620
to offset some of the politicizing of these, you know, these issues rather than showing

508
00:28:21,620 --> 00:28:26,800
the raw, you know, the raw problem and then the origin cause.

509
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:31,360
We have all, for example, been in those homes where there's an escalator on the front, you

510
00:28:31,360 --> 00:28:35,640
know, front driveway and the kids are filthy and there's nothing in the fridge.

511
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:39,920
You know, we've, we've all seen, and you just know, these kids are doomed unless a mentor

512
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:45,120
comes into these kids life, they're going to end up the same exact type of person.

513
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:49,360
So that careless, you know, parent that we just passed, it doesn't seem to give a shit

514
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:54,160
about the person that we're going to see, you know, so, I mean, we've all been there.

515
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:59,200
So that was the other thing I wanted to really show what we do and get people to relate and

516
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:06,220
just like you said, feel, you know, like they are Jack in this particular story, storytell

517
00:29:06,220 --> 00:29:10,600
what we're seeing through all these different, you know, people that he meets and interacts

518
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:11,600
with.

519
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:18,720
But then the most important thing is arguably the more interviews I did, and this I always

520
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:20,920
credit Jake Clark from Save a Warrior for this.

521
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:27,000
He really opened my eyes of the importance of our formative years on mental health in

522
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:31,600
first responders, military, you know, people that have put on a uniform because we never

523
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:32,600
really talk about that.

524
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:33,600
We do a psych test.

525
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:34,840
That's a box checking thing.

526
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:37,080
So James is crazy, but we tested it.

527
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:39,440
So don't, don't sue me.

528
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:40,840
But we don't actually evaluate.

529
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:44,360
We don't help people process what has happened.

530
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:48,520
And so when I started really opening the door, just like I did with you as, as, you know,

531
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:52,280
early life, it is incredible.

532
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:57,640
The, you know, the, the dominoes of trauma in so many people's lives and, and, you know,

533
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:01,000
first responders in military, we're known to have a very high ACEs score.

534
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:04,480
So adverse childhood experience score.

535
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:08,880
And I think we're on average about six as our most incarcerated people.

536
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:10,360
So there we go.

537
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:14,920
You either go for service or you get dragged down the wrong road.

538
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:15,920
Yeah.

539
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,880
So, but, you know, I'll give you a perfect analogy.

540
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:22,600
World War II, we keep hearing the greatest generation.

541
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:26,920
They just came back and they rolled up their sleeves and they made America great.

542
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:31,480
But you listen to how granddad actually was in most of these conversations.

543
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:32,760
He wasn't okay.

544
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,960
He did the most incredible things.

545
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:40,560
But when he came home, he was struggling the same way that we are struggling today.

546
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:44,760
And there was alcoholism and there was domestic abuse and there was all the things.

547
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:49,000
And then that's passed on to, you know, my guests, parents, you know, and then they've

548
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:53,120
got their issues and there's alcoholism and domestic abuse or whatever the thing is.

549
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:57,600
And now you've got this person who's, you know, a Navy SEAL or a SWAT operator or a

550
00:30:57,600 --> 00:30:58,600
firefighter.

551
00:30:58,600 --> 00:30:59,600
Yeah.

552
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:05,440
And, you know, a lot of them held it together, deployed or worked in a firehouse.

553
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:11,640
And one day that last final straw hit and they had their, you know, deep, deep darkness

554
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:16,920
dive and thank God they found whatever the thing was to get them back out again.

555
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:23,860
But if we just talk about Fallujah or the Vegas shooting or, you know, the freaking cold storage

556
00:31:23,860 --> 00:31:28,480
warehouse fire, and we're not looking about when you were five and your uncle used to,

557
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,120
you know, come into your bedroom at night.

558
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:32,680
We're missing a huge, huge part.

559
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:38,000
So I really wanted to tell that story and that's why it goes back two generations in

560
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:42,320
Jack's life, really touches on three generations in Jack's life.

561
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:48,520
To get people to understand how these dominoes fall until you actually are able to look at

562
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:53,120
it and go, I didn't realize those were even there.

563
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:54,660
Now I can see them.

564
00:31:54,660 --> 00:31:57,560
I'm going to stop that affecting my children now.

565
00:31:57,560 --> 00:31:58,560
So yeah.

566
00:31:58,560 --> 00:31:59,560
Yeah.

567
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:04,200
And I think so, man, everything James just said that it was what completely caught me

568
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:05,680
off guard about this book.

569
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:10,280
You know, like I said, it's a, it's a great fictional story about nonfiction.

570
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:13,040
Like it literally put me in the seat.

571
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:17,900
I mean, I felt like I was the character, Jack in the, in the, I said, almost said movie

572
00:32:17,900 --> 00:32:21,240
because it was a movie playing in my mind the entire time I'm reading this book.

573
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,200
I can't even imagine what this would be like as a show.

574
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:28,320
I mean, we'll just, whatever I can do to help you do that.

575
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:30,040
You know, it's let's get it done.

576
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:37,920
But me being in this book, reading it, um, just a quick synopsis, you know, the guy's

577
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,960
been in the fire fire department eight years and he's kind of looking around and he's having

578
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:45,920
a couple of issues, a lot of issues and the dominoes have already started falling in his

579
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:50,160
life and, but he's looking around him at other men and women that have been in way longer

580
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:51,780
than he is.

581
00:32:51,780 --> 00:32:54,000
And he's thinking, well, if they're, how come they're okay?

582
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:55,240
And I'm not okay.

583
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:58,540
You know, and the reality is, is a lot of people that are not okay, they just haven't

584
00:32:58,540 --> 00:33:00,320
said I'm not okay yet.

585
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:06,080
You know, so the dominoes are falling in Jack's life and the story and I'm watching them fall.

586
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:10,420
And as I'm watching the dominoes fall or, or recognizing the dominoes that have already

587
00:33:10,420 --> 00:33:14,680
fallen as far as family problems, life, how he's handling things.

588
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:19,240
I'm thinking back in my own life reading in this book, like, this is me.

589
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:24,720
I've done all these things like either, either I've turned to, uh, martial arts, you know,

590
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:25,720
as a coping mechanism.

591
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:28,600
I've either I've turned to pornography as a coping mechanism.

592
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,520
Maybe I've turned to alcohol as a coping mechanism.

593
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:38,160
So there's all these things that I'm reading this fictional story, but I'm in the story.

594
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:43,760
And like I said, so caught off guard because if I've ever related with a story, it was

595
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:44,760
this story.

596
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:48,160
And, you know, there's a lot of books out there and I'm not trying to discredit any

597
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:53,080
books, but if you're looking for a book for a firefighter and you've been in the industry

598
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:57,040
and you want to be able to relate and have your feelings validated, uh, which all of

599
00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:00,280
us do, whether we say we do or not, this is the book.

600
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:04,480
And I think what really got me and I realized, I don't even think I had made it through the

601
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:05,840
book when I reached out to James.

602
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:10,560
I think I was in chapter three or four and I realized this book is very different than

603
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:12,240
any book I've ever read.

604
00:34:12,240 --> 00:34:17,000
And if I wanted to continue, I was going to have to process some things in my own life.

605
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:20,360
And I think, you know, I don't, I don't want to give a whole lot of way about the book.

606
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:24,320
I really want you to pick up this book, but I will say that I think it was chapter three

607
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:25,320
or four.

608
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:26,320
Jack is in a bad way.

609
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:30,440
I mean, he's in a really bad way and he's at the point where he's, I don't think this

610
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:31,440
will give anything away.

611
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,800
He's considering taking his own life, you know, and to say that I haven't been there

612
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:39,120
before I have been there before through whatever kind of life that I've been through or whatever

613
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:40,120
led to that.

614
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:43,980
I've definitely had those moments where it was like, not only would it not better be

615
00:34:43,980 --> 00:34:47,720
better for me to be here, but where it was seriously like, this is it.

616
00:34:47,720 --> 00:34:50,120
This is the day I'm done doing this.

617
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:55,360
And you know, to sort of see this in the book and read this in the book, I can remember

618
00:34:55,360 --> 00:35:02,160
sitting downstairs in my chair in tears thinking, oh, I, I actually have a lot of stuff that

619
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:04,160
I need to process and work through.

620
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:09,600
And then one thing that James just said that really, you know, I didn't even realize, you

621
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:14,600
know, you talk about generational trauma and the ACE and the adverse childhood experiences.

622
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:20,560
I had never really dove into my childhood and who I was and who my dad was and who my

623
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:25,200
granddad was and how they were raised and how that affected me and how I even ended

624
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:26,920
up in the fire service.

625
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:33,900
And, and the stuff you write about in this book is so raw and so real and the generational

626
00:35:33,900 --> 00:35:39,080
trauma that can be experienced, not even realizing that, yeah, I've done 20 years in the fire

627
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:43,640
service and I've seen and done some things, but not even realizing that I've only handled

628
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:47,640
them the way that I've handled them because of how I've raised in my formative years.

629
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:49,520
And those are things I never dealt with.

630
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:54,720
I mean, your book put me back in a therapist chair, which is a really good thing for me.

631
00:35:54,720 --> 00:35:57,760
And I think it's probably a really good thing for a lot of people listening if you've never

632
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,120
done therapy and there's a lot of different things we'll talk about, you know, how's

633
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:04,480
it different things that work for different people.

634
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:08,400
But I will say this, this book is not an easy read.

635
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:12,160
And I want to put that out there just so people understand, like it's a great read, but it's

636
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:13,320
not easy.

637
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:14,480
It's not an easy read.

638
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:17,800
And I'll tell you right now, James didn't write it for it to be an easy read.

639
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:18,800
James doesn't do easy.

640
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:22,640
I haven't known James that long, but I can tell you one thing he does not do is easy.

641
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:25,000
And he didn't write this book to be an easy read.

642
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:29,960
He wrote it to bring light to something, to relate to people, to validate things and for

643
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:31,320
it to be challenging.

644
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:35,160
And the book for me, honestly, was a little intense and something that you just brought

645
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:36,160
up.

646
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:40,320
I think I was surprised every chapter, every word of this book.

647
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:44,280
I mean, and I hope the readers understand or listeners understand that I don't, I don't

648
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:45,520
blow smoke.

649
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:47,640
I was, I was surprised.

650
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:52,960
And then when I got to later on in the book, and I learned about two, three generations

651
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:58,900
back that some child abuse that had happened to one of the, I think it was one of the grand

652
00:36:58,900 --> 00:37:03,360
dads, and it was somebody was sneaking in his bedroom every night.

653
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:09,280
I mean, I was surprised that broke me because there's so many things that happen throughout

654
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:11,240
our lifetime to different people.

655
00:37:11,240 --> 00:37:13,120
And we don't know, we have no idea.

656
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:14,920
Not everybody's story gets shared.

657
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:19,220
And that person carries that with them, whether it's the shame and the guilt of what happened.

658
00:37:19,220 --> 00:37:22,840
And then that's passed down from generation to generation to generation.

659
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:27,320
And if we don't deal with these things, if we don't make a decision wherever we're at,

660
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:31,240
you know, that we're going to stop these, I'll just call them generational curses, if

661
00:37:31,240 --> 00:37:34,760
you will, and we're going to stop and break them now, I don't want to pass these things

662
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:36,200
onto my kids.

663
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:40,640
You know, so one thing that James book really did for me was I have a family.

664
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:43,160
You know, I have a wife, I have three children.

665
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,440
And you know, there are things in my past, there are things in my parents past, there

666
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:49,960
are things my grandparents past, that if I don't dive into some of these things and figure

667
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:54,400
some of these things out, then I will pass them down to my kids and my kids will pass

668
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,440
them down to their kids and their kids will pass them down to their kids.

669
00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:02,480
Like, James, your book put me in a position where I had to make a decision to be the man

670
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:06,120
in my family to stop what was going on.

671
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:10,840
And to say that I'm thankful for that, I mean, I don't I like I've told you before, I really

672
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:13,160
don't have words.

673
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:17,280
You know, but I will say this, it was a decision that I had to make, because I could have just

674
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:19,480
put your book down and said, Nevermind.

675
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:25,600
But the, the visceral reaction that I had from reading your book was so raw, so real.

676
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:29,960
I mean, I talked to my wife about it, like, this book is crazy.

677
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:32,960
You know, I was sending her excerpts from it, you know, and she's like, some of this

678
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:35,760
stuff I wanted to say to you, but I didn't even know how to say it to you.

679
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:40,400
At one point, Jack in the book is in an argument with his wife about mandatory every time,

680
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:42,280
and she just gives it to him.

681
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:46,520
You know, but she also feels bad because she knows he doesn't want to work it either.

682
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:51,200
You know, so it's, I remember sending her that whole excerpt, she was like, I wanted

683
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:53,280
to say every single word of this to you.

684
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:54,800
But it gave her words as well.

685
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:59,480
Like, you know, and it was I realized that I wasn't really giving her the freedom, you

686
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:00,800
know, to say those things.

687
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:05,520
So man, I mean, there's so much I could say, I just want to give you an opportunity to

688
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:10,840
just just talk about like, you know, so you said the formative years at first childhood

689
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:13,120
experiences.

690
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:16,580
That's one thing that is so different about this book, you really took the time to dive

691
00:39:16,580 --> 00:39:19,680
into not just Hey, cool stories.

692
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:24,160
But, but you took the cool stories, most of them from your career and the interviewers

693
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:28,240
that you interviewed, and you put them into this book, and you've really turned them into

694
00:39:28,240 --> 00:39:32,240
a story that is everybody's story.

695
00:39:32,240 --> 00:39:38,600
What are you I mean, aside from obviously the impact that you hope to have?

696
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:42,280
What are you hoping is the biggest takeaway from kinder?

697
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:47,800
Hope, 100% you know, and again, not giving too much away.

698
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:54,400
But the problem I see with the messaging of a lot of mental health and just going back,

699
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:59,040
you know, you touched on the sexual abuse, this was, I mean, again, so eye opening, how

700
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:05,860
many I'm just gonna say men in this particular case, because the main character is a man.

701
00:40:05,860 --> 00:40:11,440
How many men I know that was sexually abused when they were younger, a lot of women I know

702
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:12,440
as well.

703
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:19,040
But I mean, the the the sexual abuse of women, I think is more talked about, if nothing,

704
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:20,720
I wouldn't say accepted, of course not.

705
00:40:20,720 --> 00:40:26,400
But when it comes to men, you talk about stigma, a man talking about being molested as a child,

706
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:30,720
or a teen, you know, that it's, it's a really difficult conversation.

707
00:40:30,720 --> 00:40:33,440
So that's why I deliberately put that in.

708
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:38,240
Because how many people are hiding that, and I hope they'll read it and just look at it

709
00:40:38,240 --> 00:40:40,940
and go, it wasn't your fault.

710
00:40:40,940 --> 00:40:46,400
You know, you are the victim in this, you did nothing to justify this action.

711
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:51,840
But that is, I think, one of the really toxic cancerous secrets that you know, some of our

712
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:53,880
men and women have got harbored.

713
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:57,720
And imagine if we could just pull that out, you know, and get people to say, yeah, that

714
00:40:57,720 --> 00:40:58,840
happened to me.

715
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:03,480
You know, I had just to go off on a tangent for a second, I had a bouncer on the show

716
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:04,480
Jeff Thompson.

717
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:11,120
And when I was young, I was a very, very meek young man, I'd started doing martial arts,

718
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:13,360
but you know, it was kind of the tippy tappy point stuff.

719
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:17,200
So I wasn't a, you know, a fighter to by any means.

720
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:21,560
So me and my friend Mark, we bought all Jeff Thompson's books, you know, and it was all,

721
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:25,960
you know, like, basically had a fight, you know, and ask the guy a question and then

722
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:29,800
pop him in the face and all these all these different techniques.

723
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:33,200
Well years later, I do this and Jeff's name comes up in one of the interviews.

724
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:36,920
And I'm like, I forgot about that bloke, I should reach out.

725
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:45,720
We came on the show and oh my God, he just unloaded and in a super positive way, but

726
00:41:45,720 --> 00:41:51,840
he was molested by his martial arts teacher and violence became his coping mechanism.

727
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:58,960
And now he's just like, you know, freaking spiritual, you know, Buddhist esque, you

728
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:01,240
know, harmonious human being.

729
00:42:01,240 --> 00:42:06,800
And it was such a deep conversation, but he was so courageously vulnerable about his sexual

730
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:10,400
abuse and, you know, and then the impact that I had for years and years and years.

731
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:14,160
And he ended up seeing the guy and I mean, he'd always wanted to, you know, to beat him

732
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:15,160
up and I don't think he did.

733
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:17,840
He just talked to him and then let him, you know, then walked out.

734
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:21,280
But you know, that is, that is a big thing.

735
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:24,680
So that's from the sexual abuse side.

736
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:28,920
But what I've seen with the mental health conversation, you know, I mean, how many times

737
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,560
do we hear the term or we need to smash the stigma?

738
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:34,600
It's like, okay, consider it smash.

739
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:35,760
Now what?

740
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:37,760
That hasn't helped really anyone yet.

741
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:42,120
Maybe some more people feel like talk, but yeah, we haven't connected a to B still standing

742
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:43,640
on that Island.

743
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:49,760
So as I've moved through and I've, you know, I have a thousand people just like Jeff, so

744
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:53,760
many people, a lot of people came on, you know, and I know they have a powerful mental

745
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:59,720
health kind of journey that they've traversed, but Dan John, for example, strength and conditioning

746
00:42:59,720 --> 00:43:03,920
guru, he came on and we ended up talking about mental health for the first 45 minutes because

747
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:09,560
his dad was in world war II, his brother was in Vietnam and it absolutely affected him

748
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:11,800
and his family.

749
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:18,480
So but what I started seeing as well is that the firstly that it is able to, you know,

750
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:21,240
it's possible to navigate the worst traumas.

751
00:43:21,240 --> 00:43:26,520
I had a guy, Ishmael Bay, who was a child soldier in Sierra Leone.

752
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:31,320
Parents were murdered and he had two, two choices, be a child soldier or get shot in

753
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:32,640
the head.

754
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:36,200
You know, I think most of us would be more option child soldier.

755
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:37,200
Yeah.

756
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:38,200
Yeah.

757
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:41,160
So, you know, and then they obviously get them addicted to drugs and all this kind of

758
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:42,160
stuff.

759
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:46,240
Well, he's rescued by the American Red Cross when he's about 18 and now he works for UNICEF

760
00:43:46,240 --> 00:43:51,160
as an ambassador for, you know, saving child soldiers.

761
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:57,760
So if Ishmael can work through his trauma, then anyone else listening, we can work through

762
00:43:57,760 --> 00:43:58,760
our trauma.

763
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:03,400
I think the real hope is even believing that in the first place and understanding and this

764
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:08,960
is, this happens over and over again, but there is a better version of you waiting on

765
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:09,960
the other side.

766
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:10,960
Oh, man.

767
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:13,480
You know, the 2.0 and you're going to be different.

768
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:17,680
Like we're not going to be 18 year old James or Josh because we've, you know, we've been

769
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:18,680
the fire service.

770
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:19,680
It changes you.

771
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:20,680
Sure.

772
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:25,320
But those scars and always say there's that Japanese term where they mend broken pottery

773
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:26,840
with gold glue.

774
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:29,240
So you're proud of your scars.

775
00:44:29,240 --> 00:44:31,180
You know, that's there's an element of that.

776
00:44:31,180 --> 00:44:36,440
But I think the missing piece in the middle is that how do I get from there to there is

777
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:39,480
and you know, we touched on this in the book too.

778
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:45,520
If our solution is just an EAP list handed to you of loader counselors, some of whom

779
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:48,560
or most of whom may have never even worked with firefighters before.

780
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:51,120
And that's your solution.

781
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:54,740
That's you know, that's one screwdriver in an entire toolbox.

782
00:44:54,740 --> 00:44:59,720
What we need to understand is there's so much from, you know, retreats to equine and, you

783
00:44:59,720 --> 00:45:07,280
know, canine therapy to psychedelics to MDMA and ketamine to talk therapy and EMDR and,

784
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:11,160
you know, neurofeedback and reprogramming and all.

785
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:15,080
I forget all the terms, but there's so many kind of acronyms out there.

786
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:17,480
There is your personal toolbox out there.

787
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:22,840
And what I really wanted to paint ultimately and kinder some of these raw dark depths that

788
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:29,240
some of these characters get into that if you have the right people surrounding you,

789
00:45:29,240 --> 00:45:33,320
you know, which is on our job, anyone who's not struggling is to look and find who is

790
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:34,940
and rift them up.

791
00:45:34,940 --> 00:45:37,940
Don't just look down your nose at them because you're doing okay.

792
00:45:37,940 --> 00:45:44,240
But then, you know, this immense toolbox that we have, have the courage to actually say,

793
00:45:44,240 --> 00:45:48,880
you know, I'm going to try this and also have the understanding that if I tried, you know,

794
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:54,120
let's say talk therapy and it was a culturally competent clinician, but you just don't jive

795
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:59,200
with them understanding that it's okay to go to another one and then another one until

796
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:01,120
you find your person.

797
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:04,400
And then, you know, you're doing that, but oh God, I just can't seem to access some of

798
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:05,400
the stuff that's in my head.

799
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:11,240
All right, well then maybe ayahuasca or ketamine or MDMA, you know, that might be the journey

800
00:46:11,240 --> 00:46:13,640
you need to go next to unlock some of those things.

801
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:14,640
Okay, wow.

802
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:18,800
It's an amazing experience and I totally, you know, forgot about that thing that happened

803
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:19,800
to me when I was little.

804
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:23,240
All right, well then now let's go and unpack that with your counselor again, you know.

805
00:46:23,240 --> 00:46:29,560
So understanding that everyone has their own kind of Google Maps to that final destination

806
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:33,200
in a positive way, not negative one.

807
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:34,680
Then that puts hope in.

808
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:40,200
When you believe, when you're in Fire Academy going through a maze or, you know, climbing

809
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:46,800
in the fricking stairs with the hose on your shoulder for the umpteenth time, you knew

810
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:49,640
that you were going to get to the top because you had that burning in your heart that you

811
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:52,560
were going to be a damn firefighter if it killed you.

812
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:57,360
Once you put that same hope into, I know that I can get back to where I need to be and be

813
00:46:57,360 --> 00:47:03,160
a stellar father and a compassionate, loving, you know, spouse, then all of a sudden you're

814
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:06,840
driven and then I'm going to be even a better firefighter for it, you know, and I'm going

815
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:10,080
to be more compassionate and empathetic on calls.

816
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:11,080
That puts hope in.

817
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:13,600
You believe that you actually can get there.

818
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:15,080
Hope becomes a superpower.

819
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:19,960
No, man, I always love it and I think anybody that knows me is like, I have a lot of four-letter

820
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:25,720
words that I like to use, but my favorite, my favorite four-letter word I say all the

821
00:47:25,720 --> 00:47:26,720
time is hope.

822
00:47:26,720 --> 00:47:31,360
I mean, because honestly, without hope, everything is lost.

823
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:37,480
I mean, because everything can look lost and as long as you have hope, everything's all

824
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:38,480
good.

825
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:42,400
I mean, it could be the smallest glimmer and one thing that I love is like you get to have

826
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:43,960
a completely dark room.

827
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:48,000
I mean, it could be completely dark void of all light whatsoever.

828
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:51,880
The smallest amount of light is going to change that room.

829
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:55,000
Just through science, physics, whatever, as soon as I put a small amount of light in there,

830
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:59,320
I'll be able to see something even if it's just the light that I brought into that room.

831
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:03,520
And that's what I always tell people hope is it's that small little glimmer, you know,

832
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:06,040
in the corner where can I actually do this?

833
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:09,640
And the answer is always yes, because you have to be able to see hope.

834
00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:14,440
You know, and I joke, I'm like an original Star Wars episode four, five and six fans,

835
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:16,480
you know, the one that came out in the 70s.

836
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:20,920
But if you look, the only reason I love those dumb movies is because the entire message

837
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:22,560
is hope.

838
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:25,000
If you watch any of these movies, I mean, they're actually kind of cheesy.

839
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:26,200
The graphics are terrible.

840
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:28,840
I mean, you know, especially, but it's hope.

841
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:30,880
You know, hope is the message in all those movies.

842
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:36,040
And one of my favorite lines, I think, you know, from those movies is that rebellions

843
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:37,600
are built on hope.

844
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:39,240
You know, they said enough.

845
00:48:39,240 --> 00:48:40,240
They said enough.

846
00:48:40,240 --> 00:48:41,240
This is enough.

847
00:48:41,240 --> 00:48:42,240
And this is what we got to do.

848
00:48:42,240 --> 00:48:46,160
And I think one of the things that I love about kinder is kinder was another way for

849
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:49,240
James Gearing to say, OK, enough.

850
00:48:49,240 --> 00:48:52,040
I'm just going to show people in a different way.

851
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:54,520
And I love what you just said.

852
00:48:54,520 --> 00:49:00,220
You know, a different version of me, you know, so I've always felt like there is a version

853
00:49:00,220 --> 00:49:07,240
of myself inside of me just waiting to come out, you know, a kinder version, if you will,

854
00:49:07,240 --> 00:49:12,000
you know, somebody that can love their wife fully, love their kids fully, a version of

855
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:14,600
myself that I really did not know how to get to.

856
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:16,160
I could see this person.

857
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:17,560
I know it's who I wanted to be.

858
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:20,040
I've always wanted to be this version.

859
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:25,900
But through life, things happen and you realize, hey, I'm a version of myself that maybe I

860
00:49:25,900 --> 00:49:27,400
didn't plan on.

861
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:31,120
Maybe I didn't want to be or I'm starting to realize this isn't who I am.

862
00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:33,360
But how do I get to that other version?

863
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:38,160
And I think one did one thing kinder did for me was, man, it put me in front of a mirror.

864
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:39,520
And I didn't like everything that I saw.

865
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:40,520
I really didn't.

866
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:45,520
I mean, kinder put me right in front of a mirror and it was me looking at myself.

867
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:49,560
And I had to at that point, make a decision whether I was going to help myself or not.

868
00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:53,800
And I think that is one of the biggest, biggest things that we have to do as firefighters

869
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:56,240
is realize that self care is a big deal.

870
00:49:56,240 --> 00:50:00,800
And before anybody else can help you, you have to be willing to help yourself.

871
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:04,600
And that's even answering the easy conversations like, am I willing to go down this road to

872
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:06,160
see where it takes me?

873
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:10,320
And kinder didn't force me down because I made some decisions, but kinder pushed me

874
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:14,400
down a road where I actually had to do a few things.

875
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:17,760
And I'll say this and this is what's crazy.

876
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:18,760
Anybody listening?

877
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:22,820
Like I'm a faith guy, believe in Jesus, believe in God, all that stuff.

878
00:50:22,820 --> 00:50:28,620
But it wasn't the Bible that stirred me to go sit back in a therapy chair and dive into

879
00:50:28,620 --> 00:50:29,720
my past.

880
00:50:29,720 --> 00:50:32,120
It was a book that a man wrote.

881
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:35,000
And I think something that you said, a toolbox, right?

882
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:38,040
So you have to put different things in your toolbox.

883
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:41,420
I could read the book of Proverbs all day or read all these things all day, but there

884
00:50:41,420 --> 00:50:45,000
are so many different things out there in the world that can get you where you need

885
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:49,160
to be, where you can be the kind of man or woman that you were put on this earth to be.

886
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:54,460
And that's one thing I love is kinder was birthed out of a genuine passion and a heart

887
00:50:54,460 --> 00:50:56,280
to help people.

888
00:50:56,280 --> 00:51:00,040
And it's hard not to just tell people exactly what the story is in this book.

889
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:01,520
It really is.

890
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:07,820
But the best way that I can think to describe it to you is how it's changed my life.

891
00:51:07,820 --> 00:51:09,680
So James writes this book.

892
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:10,680
I open it.

893
00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:11,760
I decide I'm going to read it.

894
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:13,660
Like I said, completely caught off guard.

895
00:51:13,660 --> 00:51:15,240
Number one, it was fiction.

896
00:51:15,240 --> 00:51:18,960
His first book I knew was a little bit more nonfiction.

897
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:20,920
That grabs me right away with the story.

898
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:25,480
I'm sitting in the tiller truck with Jack as we're going down the street on these calls.

899
00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:29,600
A lot of the calls that he talks about in the book, either I've been on or been on similar

900
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:32,320
ones like it or just can relate.

901
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:37,880
So I'm going through this book, dominoes are falling, life situations are happening the

902
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:41,480
same way they've happened in my life and the character reaches a breaking point.

903
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:44,400
And I've been at so many different breaking points in my life.

904
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:47,840
And I didn't realize this book was going to be another breaking point for me, but it was

905
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:49,880
a positive breaking point.

906
00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:55,160
I call James I think after chapter four and I'm like, this is insane.

907
00:51:55,160 --> 00:52:01,040
I literally made an appointment with my family therapist, I think that day to start doing

908
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:05,640
for me, I started doing EMDR and we can get into that, how that works, how that's worked

909
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:08,080
for me.

910
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:15,160
But his book really put me in front of a mirror and it forced me to deal with these problems.

911
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:16,360
And like I said, it was a decision.

912
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:19,160
It wasn't something that was easy, it was something that was hard.

913
00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:23,960
I started to realize that I didn't really know my parents that well.

914
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:27,680
I don't really know how my dad was raised or why he raised me the way that he raised

915
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:28,680
me.

916
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:30,220
I don't know anything about my granddad.

917
00:52:30,220 --> 00:52:34,800
So the book goes into three generations and I started to realize that I haven't dove into

918
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:38,840
any of my generational issues or problems.

919
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:46,200
And this book really, honestly, through therapy, through reading, through pursuing my faith

920
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:49,720
on a deeper level, it is literally, I'm not even lying.

921
00:52:49,720 --> 00:52:52,040
You guys are probably listening to this, like you gotta be kidding me.

922
00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:56,960
But I'm telling you, ever since I read this book, I have become that version of me and

923
00:52:56,960 --> 00:53:02,080
still becoming that version of me, that man that was put on this earth to be kind, to

924
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:06,120
be compassionate, to be genuine, to love my wife the way that she deserves, to love my

925
00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:09,000
kids the way that they deserve.

926
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:14,360
This book really opened my eyes and set me down the trajectory of this is available to

927
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:15,360
you.

928
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:20,640
I think everybody listening, there is a version of yourself that maybe you're not happy with

929
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:21,640
where you are right now.

930
00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:22,920
It is available to you.

931
00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:23,920
Is it work?

932
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:24,920
100%.

933
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:25,920
It does take work.

934
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:29,720
I mean, my first therapy session, I was sitting in a counselor's office crying about a Christmas

935
00:53:29,720 --> 00:53:32,240
when I was six years old that I didn't even remember.

936
00:53:32,240 --> 00:53:34,520
I had no idea.

937
00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:36,040
And it ended up being a good Christmas.

938
00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:39,640
And I could tell you the gifts under the tree, exactly what we got that Christmas.

939
00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:44,400
But I walked out of there like, I have no idea why I'm crying about a Christmas when

940
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:45,440
I was six years old.

941
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:50,800
And for me, it was just a window into, hey, there's a lot of stuff in here.

942
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:52,000
There's a lot of stuff in there.

943
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:54,560
There's a lot of reasons why you are the way that you are.

944
00:53:54,560 --> 00:54:01,280
And I think a myth or lie that I was believing was the fire service made me this way.

945
00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:03,120
The fire service made me this way.

946
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:07,440
And I think what your book really brought to light for me was it wasn't the fire service

947
00:54:07,440 --> 00:54:09,160
that made me this way.

948
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:14,280
The fire service definitely added to things and has made it harder and challenging and

949
00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:15,480
more to deal with.

950
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:21,000
But it really was the stuff in my formative years and the ACE, the adverse childhood experiences

951
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:25,160
that got me to a place where the fire department stuff was just piling on top.

952
00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:29,200
And if you will, we'll just go with the continued metaphor of dominoes.

953
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:35,240
It was slowly impacting me in a way where different parts of my life were falling apart.

954
00:54:35,240 --> 00:54:38,880
And it was almost easier to just blame the fire service than just deal with the real

955
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:40,040
issues.

956
00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:42,240
Because if it's not the fire service, it would have been something else.

957
00:54:42,240 --> 00:54:45,200
It doesn't change how I was raised.

958
00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:46,760
It doesn't change how my dad was raised.

959
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:49,040
It doesn't change how my granddad was raised.

960
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:53,440
And one of the takeaways that I've gotten from your book and that I actually got from

961
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:59,720
therapy was, so I've done two fairly dangerous careers, both based off in service.

962
00:54:59,720 --> 00:55:03,680
I joined the United States Army and I joined the fire department, did the army for six

963
00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:09,840
years, went to a war, came back, joined the fire department, been there 20 years now.

964
00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:13,880
Through therapy, reading your book and everything else, I didn't even realize the reason that

965
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:19,280
I chose these careers is because I grew up in environments where I didn't feel protected,

966
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:23,200
I didn't feel safe, and I didn't trust the people around me to protect me.

967
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:28,080
So lo and behold, I chose careers where I could protect people, make them feel safe,

968
00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:29,600
and I could show up in that moment.

969
00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:32,700
And for the moment that I interacted with those people, they could trust me because

970
00:55:32,700 --> 00:55:34,760
they knew I was there to help them.

971
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:40,960
And I'm blown away that the reason I even chose these careers was because of experiences

972
00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:46,960
that I had when I was five and six years old, 10, 11 years old, 13 and 14 years old.

973
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:51,320
And I'm talking about specific experiences that we've talked about in therapy where my

974
00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:55,520
therapist has said, you stop trusting your parents at this age or that age, or you had

975
00:55:55,520 --> 00:55:56,720
to deal with this.

976
00:55:56,720 --> 00:56:01,040
But yeah, the reason I even chose the careers that I chose.

977
00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:06,000
So kinder is one of those books where it is a you could read it and it just be a phenomenal

978
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:07,000
story.

979
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:09,880
I mean, honestly, like the book is a phenomenal story.

980
00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:12,080
The way James write the book writes the book.

981
00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:15,600
If you just want to read a story, it is a phenomenal story.

982
00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:19,680
I just think you should be prepared for it not just being a story.

983
00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:23,880
Because to say his book wrecked me in such a good way is an understatement.

984
00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:27,480
I still have not found words for the book.

985
00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:32,400
And I think I don't even think the kudos to you for writing it because like what we talked

986
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:34,840
about with authors was you write blindly.

987
00:56:34,840 --> 00:56:38,680
I mean, we write blindly hoping it'll make an impact like we don't write blindly saying

988
00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:40,040
nobody's going to read it.

989
00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:43,960
We really are blindly writing and we have this hope, if you will, of people are going

990
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:44,960
to pick this up.

991
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:46,040
They're going to have a reaction.

992
00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:47,800
They're going to read this.

993
00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:53,120
And the fact that you wrote it and put it out there for people to read, you know, immediate

994
00:56:53,120 --> 00:56:56,920
like people's books always take a little bit to take off.

995
00:56:56,920 --> 00:57:01,400
You know, but I think this is really one of those books when people get a hold of this,

996
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:02,620
it's going to change things.

997
00:57:02,620 --> 00:57:05,280
You know, it is going to change things for people in such a good way.

998
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:11,400
And I'm excited for people to listen to this podcast and go grab this book.

999
00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:13,360
You know, I think I've given a couple away already.

1000
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:15,480
Like I'm probably just going to continue to give them away.

1001
00:57:15,480 --> 00:57:18,840
I have to keep one in my backpack that I give away when I run into people gave one to a

1002
00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:22,160
captain I ran into last week that reads I'm like, you have to read this.

1003
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:25,000
You know, anybody that reads I'm like, please read this.

1004
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:29,400
And I'm like secretly hoping it'll completely wreck their life in such a good way.

1005
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:31,280
Like don't read this book for the story.

1006
00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:36,040
I'm like, I hope I hope you're on a couch crying in six months, you know, you know,

1007
00:57:36,040 --> 00:57:38,880
for good for good reasons.

1008
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:44,080
So yeah, man, I mean, when you said hope, you know, how important like I know how important

1009
00:57:44,080 --> 00:57:45,080
hope is for me.

1010
00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:49,640
I mean, I've been in so many, I would say hopeless situations, but I'm I would consider

1011
00:57:49,640 --> 00:57:54,120
myself a blind optimist, which is probably why my favorite four letter word is hope.

1012
00:57:54,120 --> 00:57:58,840
I mean, how important is hope, you know, when it comes to not just the fire service, but

1013
00:57:58,840 --> 00:58:00,760
life in general?

1014
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:01,760
I think it's everything.

1015
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:02,760
I mean, truly.

1016
00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:09,120
And this is I think this is why there's such dissension at the moment, you know, over politics

1017
00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:16,000
over vaccines over, you know, whatever the thing is, is I've talked about this a lot

1018
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:21,520
when I was little, you know, you think about America's, you know, the land of, you know,

1019
00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:27,280
dreams or the American dream, you know, where you can truly come here and you can become

1020
00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:28,280
anything.

1021
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:31,400
And I feel like recently that message isn't there.

1022
00:58:31,400 --> 00:58:35,360
And I tell my son all the time, and you know, it's amazing.

1023
00:58:35,360 --> 00:58:39,840
His self belief now doesn't mean the self confidence, you know, he's he's he questions

1024
00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:42,520
himself as much as anyone else does.

1025
00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:46,840
But if there's an opportunity, he's never he's never like, Oh, I could never do that.

1026
00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:48,600
He's like, All right, when do I start?

1027
00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:50,360
You know, and I love that about him.

1028
00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:55,920
So I think, you know, whether it comes to reversing the obesity crisis, or, you know,

1029
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:59,400
the opioid epidemic, all of these need hope.

1030
00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:03,800
And let's just, you know, go to the topic that we talked about earlier.

1031
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:10,080
The resistance that I've seen to the conversation on the 24 72.

1032
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:16,300
That now that we have departments in Florida going to it, I would argue that is hope before

1033
00:59:16,300 --> 00:59:20,560
everyone was just staring at this, you know, gulag wall, and we're never going to get out

1034
00:59:20,560 --> 00:59:21,560
of this.

1035
00:59:21,560 --> 00:59:26,400
But now, they are that sliver of light that you talk about.

1036
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:32,760
And you know, what is beautiful is, for that particular example, it's all that's required

1037
00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:33,760
is courage.

1038
00:59:33,760 --> 00:59:38,120
Like, it solves, you know, the recruitment crisis, it solves the mental and physical

1039
00:59:38,120 --> 00:59:42,200
health issues that we suffer from, it saves money, you know, therefore, you'll be able

1040
00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:46,280
to up staff and, you know, open stations that you brand out and all these things.

1041
00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:50,800
All the things that we've struggled with as we've continuously kind of devolved as a profession,

1042
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:54,800
and not the people in the uniform, organizationally.

1043
00:59:54,800 --> 01:00:00,400
The hope is that we can get back to when you and I first joined the fire service.

1044
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:04,720
And even then, don't get me wrong, Anaheim, you know, had, I think a mass retirement.

1045
01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:09,780
And when I was at Anaheim, early in my career, I got hit with the mandatories all the time.

1046
01:00:09,780 --> 01:00:11,840
But then they got fully staffed eventually.

1047
01:00:11,840 --> 01:00:17,200
But back then, you know, we were testing against thousands of people.

1048
01:00:17,200 --> 01:00:19,760
Anaheim had like over 1000 at the written.

1049
01:00:19,760 --> 01:00:23,920
So that's after filtering out all the people that weren't, you know, up to scratch in whatever

1050
01:00:23,920 --> 01:00:25,360
way.

1051
01:00:25,360 --> 01:00:29,440
And so that's where the hope is, oh, you know, we can't even hire people now.

1052
01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:33,480
Well, yeah, but here's what you're gonna be able to do when we fix it.

1053
01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:38,280
We're gonna go back to you're having 1000 people and you get to choose 30 of them.

1054
01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:43,000
30, the cream of the crop, you know, for that list at that moment.

1055
01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:48,160
And then challenge these young people to rise to the top and put fitness standards in mandatory

1056
01:00:48,160 --> 01:00:53,640
punitive fitness standards to keep your people solid and have, you know, more rest and recovery.

1057
01:00:53,640 --> 01:00:55,000
Therefore, you can do better training.

1058
01:00:55,000 --> 01:00:56,080
I mean, all the things.

1059
01:00:56,080 --> 01:01:00,400
So even in the fire service, the hope I think is so important.

1060
01:01:00,400 --> 01:01:05,280
And I just had two friends of mine at the house yesterday, we did an interview.

1061
01:01:05,280 --> 01:01:10,960
Casey is a firefighter locally here and his wife Shelby is a nurse practitioner.

1062
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:16,320
And it was such an interesting conversation because from within, you know, Casey's kind

1063
01:01:16,320 --> 01:01:21,080
of like, I mean, he literally is surrounded by people in their air quotes leadership saying

1064
01:01:21,080 --> 01:01:22,600
that will never happen here.

1065
01:01:22,600 --> 01:01:23,600
Right.

1066
01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:28,000
But then you've got Shelby talking about the impact seeing, you know, the kind of decay

1067
01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:31,160
of her husband over the years, which I've seen because I knew him before he became a

1068
01:01:31,160 --> 01:01:37,280
firefighter of the impact of this mandatory overtime of the sleep deprivation of the,

1069
01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:41,280
you know, the disappointed children when daddy's supposed to be coming home and now he can't

1070
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:45,400
and he can't go to your baseball game anymore and all the things.

1071
01:01:45,400 --> 01:01:52,040
But the hope is that now I think we're turning a corner because I adore this profession and

1072
01:01:52,040 --> 01:01:58,640
it is unacceptable that men and women who risk their lives that stay up all night, arguably,

1073
01:01:58,640 --> 01:02:01,320
whether they're half asleep or running calls.

1074
01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:06,760
Well, the rest of the country literally sleeps peacefully in their beds that those men and

1075
01:02:06,760 --> 01:02:11,000
women are being asked to work 16 hours more than the person in your grocery store or the

1076
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:12,440
one that makes your coffee.

1077
01:02:12,440 --> 01:02:15,440
No disrespect to them, but they tap out at 40.

1078
01:02:15,440 --> 01:02:23,600
So to me, all these little pieces puts hope into the fact that you are worthy of a schedule

1079
01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:28,360
that allows you to start turning a corner in your own health, your own mental health,

1080
01:02:28,360 --> 01:02:32,800
your relationships, your ability to keep your promises to your children.

1081
01:02:32,800 --> 01:02:37,080
So hope is, you know, it's so important in so many ways, but this is what I'm hoping

1082
01:02:37,080 --> 01:02:38,080
now.

1083
01:02:38,080 --> 01:02:44,200
Ironically, using that word is that Florida, the sunshine state, a little bit of that sunshine

1084
01:02:44,200 --> 01:02:49,920
is now becoming a beacon of hope for the rest of the country to turn this corner because

1085
01:02:49,920 --> 01:02:55,560
everything that I talk about in kinder part of that pie chart, not all, like you said,

1086
01:02:55,560 --> 01:03:01,280
part of trauma and obviously, you know, a toxic organization is something that I know

1087
01:03:01,280 --> 01:03:06,840
in the leadership space, you guys talk about a lot, but if you make a work week that allows

1088
01:03:06,840 --> 01:03:12,720
people to thrive rather than decay, that would revolutionize the fire service.

1089
01:03:12,720 --> 01:03:15,040
And you know, there are some departments in the Northeast that have been working it for

1090
01:03:15,040 --> 01:03:18,960
years, but I don't hear the conversation with them.

1091
01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:23,720
We need to advocate for everyone who's not either, you know, so, you know, this understaffing

1092
01:03:23,720 --> 01:03:29,520
this mandatory over time, these 56 hours a week or 72 in our federal firefighters.

1093
01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:35,120
If we could get that to a, you know, a, um, profession standard, a gold standard across

1094
01:03:35,120 --> 01:03:40,080
the country, regardless if you're busy or not, this is what drives me crazy too.

1095
01:03:40,080 --> 01:03:43,860
You know, if you're a security guard and apartment complex, they want you running around chasing

1096
01:03:43,860 --> 01:03:44,920
bad guys the whole time.

1097
01:03:44,920 --> 01:03:49,120
No, you're there if you're needed, you know, you don't just in case exactly.

1098
01:03:49,120 --> 01:03:51,240
So but a lot of us are extremely busy.

1099
01:03:51,240 --> 01:03:57,040
So anyway, that was kind of rambling answer, but I think that hope is just simply believing

1100
01:03:57,040 --> 01:03:58,520
that there is something better.

1101
01:03:58,520 --> 01:04:02,600
And then once you believe it, then you become part of the driving force.

1102
01:04:02,600 --> 01:04:05,840
But if your belief is it will never happen, they'll never go for it.

1103
01:04:05,840 --> 01:04:06,840
We don't have the money.

1104
01:04:06,840 --> 01:04:11,280
We can't even hire people now of which there are answers for every one of those.

1105
01:04:11,280 --> 01:04:17,400
Then you're allowing someone who works 40 hours and goes to their family at five o'clock

1106
01:04:17,400 --> 01:04:20,720
to tell you, you don't deserve to work less than 56.

1107
01:04:20,720 --> 01:04:22,440
And I personally think that's unacceptable.

1108
01:04:22,440 --> 01:04:25,600
No, I mean, it's complete bullshit to be completely honest.

1109
01:04:25,600 --> 01:04:28,000
I mean, it's it's crazy.

1110
01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:31,560
You know, something that you touched on just right there, I mean, great answer was not

1111
01:04:31,560 --> 01:04:32,560
rambling.

1112
01:04:32,560 --> 01:04:34,520
Love it.

1113
01:04:34,520 --> 01:04:38,320
Something that you touched on was, you know, toxic leadership.

1114
01:04:38,320 --> 01:04:41,480
You know, this is a leadership podcast, if you will.

1115
01:04:41,480 --> 01:04:47,920
You know, so but one thing I do love about kinder is it takes the it takes the responsibility

1116
01:04:47,920 --> 01:04:50,880
from the from the organizational leadership.

1117
01:04:50,880 --> 01:04:52,080
We know there's toxic leadership.

1118
01:04:52,080 --> 01:04:53,920
We know there's organizational leadership problems.

1119
01:04:53,920 --> 01:04:55,560
That's not a secret in the fire service.

1120
01:04:55,560 --> 01:04:59,400
Like, you know, it's it's not a lot of the times we promote people just through testing

1121
01:04:59,400 --> 01:05:01,180
and there's no leadership training.

1122
01:05:01,180 --> 01:05:03,200
We know we know these things.

1123
01:05:03,200 --> 01:05:07,680
And one of the things that I do appreciate about your book is it kind of takes the blame

1124
01:05:07,680 --> 01:05:11,520
out of leadership's hands like, hey, we know there's issues here.

1125
01:05:11,520 --> 01:05:13,080
We know there's issues.

1126
01:05:13,080 --> 01:05:18,100
And if we can't fix those issues tomorrow at the individual level, what can you do to

1127
01:05:18,100 --> 01:05:19,840
make your life better?

1128
01:05:19,840 --> 01:05:23,680
So one of my favorite slogans that I think has come out of the Behind the Shield podcast

1129
01:05:23,680 --> 01:05:28,400
out of James Gearing is the self care and sabotage because it may and there is such

1130
01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:31,280
a balance and it's a pretty cool logo to with the hearts.

1131
01:05:31,280 --> 01:05:32,280
Pretty awesome.

1132
01:05:32,280 --> 01:05:33,280
But the hearts are grenade.

1133
01:05:33,280 --> 01:05:34,280
I'm like, this is a genius.

1134
01:05:34,280 --> 01:05:35,480
I don't know where this came from.

1135
01:05:35,480 --> 01:05:38,360
But the self care and the sabotage.

1136
01:05:38,360 --> 01:05:42,120
And I think, James, we're our own worst enemy sometimes.

1137
01:05:42,120 --> 01:05:46,840
And I think that is where we're kind of really brought it back to myself and put the mirror

1138
01:05:46,840 --> 01:05:47,840
in front of me.

1139
01:05:47,840 --> 01:05:49,400
It was like, yes, 100 percent.

1140
01:05:49,400 --> 01:05:53,360
I have, you know, there's toxic leadership across the country.

1141
01:05:53,360 --> 01:05:55,440
There's organizational leadership problems.

1142
01:05:55,440 --> 01:05:58,400
You know, there's there's problems just in the firehouse with captains and lieutenants

1143
01:05:58,400 --> 01:06:01,400
who are first line supervisors who really could be making this.

1144
01:06:01,400 --> 01:06:06,100
Sure, you may have to work a 60 hour weekend, but if we all have to be here, let's not kill

1145
01:06:06,100 --> 01:06:07,680
our people while we are here.

1146
01:06:07,680 --> 01:06:11,800
You know, there are people that are making this thing way worse than it has to be.

1147
01:06:11,800 --> 01:06:17,520
And so one of the things that I appreciate about that book was it really it kind of puts

1148
01:06:17,520 --> 01:06:22,440
it it forces you to take ownership, you know, of the self care part of it.

1149
01:06:22,440 --> 01:06:26,160
And you know, if you've been doing the job 10 years and it's not working out and nobody's

1150
01:06:26,160 --> 01:06:29,440
looking out for you, you know, what would you say?

1151
01:06:29,440 --> 01:06:30,760
Like, hey, I'm here 10 years.

1152
01:06:30,760 --> 01:06:31,760
It's not working out.

1153
01:06:31,760 --> 01:06:34,320
It hasn't worked out for the last five.

1154
01:06:34,320 --> 01:06:35,560
Is it part of self care?

1155
01:06:35,560 --> 01:06:38,400
Hey, maybe the fire service isn't for me.

1156
01:06:38,400 --> 01:06:43,240
Instead of doing, you know, 20, 30 years sacrificing your mental health, your physical health,

1157
01:06:43,240 --> 01:06:47,280
your marriage, your wife, your kids, and you retire with nothing, you know.

1158
01:06:47,280 --> 01:06:53,720
And what would you say to somebody that's like, really self care sabotage?

1159
01:06:53,720 --> 01:06:56,320
Where's the balance with the self care and the sabotage?

1160
01:06:56,320 --> 01:07:01,760
Yeah, well, that's that's the tug of war that identified and I made the t shirt with that.

1161
01:07:01,760 --> 01:07:02,760
I love that logo.

1162
01:07:02,760 --> 01:07:08,560
If you know, if all of a sudden there's a massive exposure, I'm going to make some more

1163
01:07:08,560 --> 01:07:09,560
of those.

1164
01:07:09,560 --> 01:07:10,560
I thought that was a great shirt.

1165
01:07:10,560 --> 01:07:19,760
But from my own experience, Anaheim, California was by far my favorite department.

1166
01:07:19,760 --> 01:07:25,440
The people in Hialeah were phenomenal, but the organization just, I mean, strip those

1167
01:07:25,440 --> 01:07:27,520
poor men and women bare.

1168
01:07:27,520 --> 01:07:32,500
When I was there, they were earning almost half of what Miami Dade was earning.

1169
01:07:32,500 --> 01:07:34,560
And they were running their rear ends off, you know what I mean?

1170
01:07:34,560 --> 01:07:39,800
So so Hialeah was phenomenal, the people, but overall departments support, you know,

1171
01:07:39,800 --> 01:07:41,280
the bar being set super high.

1172
01:07:41,280 --> 01:07:47,160
They I said this on other podcasts, but Anaheim, when I was there, 25% of each probie class

1173
01:07:47,160 --> 01:07:49,760
would be gone by the end of the year.

1174
01:07:49,760 --> 01:07:51,720
You could either have had to go or you could know.

1175
01:07:51,720 --> 01:07:57,440
And you ended up with phenomenal firefighters who then became engineers, captains, BCs,

1176
01:07:57,440 --> 01:08:01,720
you know, and you know, the fitness culture wasn't rammed down our throat.

1177
01:08:01,720 --> 01:08:04,760
We just kept fit because we understood that lives are at stake.

1178
01:08:04,760 --> 01:08:05,760
You know what I mean?

1179
01:08:05,760 --> 01:08:07,760
So the culture there was phenomenal.

1180
01:08:07,760 --> 01:08:13,160
Conversely, the last place I worked couldn't have been further from that.

1181
01:08:13,160 --> 01:08:18,200
And you know, on paper, they had a Kelly Day and they, but the Florida area, they were

1182
01:08:18,200 --> 01:08:20,060
quite well paid.

1183
01:08:20,060 --> 01:08:23,920
And they had very few people testing for them.

1184
01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:27,280
And so and I experienced that toxicity.

1185
01:08:27,280 --> 01:08:34,480
And again, you talked about the complainer, that was me and I felt negative, but my frustrations

1186
01:08:34,480 --> 01:08:35,520
were, we're not ready.

1187
01:08:35,520 --> 01:08:40,280
You got people that are scared to put their mask on that are on your rig, you know, that

1188
01:08:40,280 --> 01:08:41,640
we have people that they work here.

1189
01:08:41,640 --> 01:08:42,640
Yeah.

1190
01:08:42,640 --> 01:08:43,640
Yeah.

1191
01:08:43,640 --> 01:08:44,640
They would tap out on two flights of stairs.

1192
01:08:44,640 --> 01:08:46,480
You know, I mean, this is, is this not concerning you?

1193
01:08:46,480 --> 01:08:49,720
Like we're the biggest target hazard in America yet.

1194
01:08:49,720 --> 01:08:55,940
We don't even do any freaking, you know, training with PD or I mean, it was just infuriating.

1195
01:08:55,940 --> 01:09:02,520
So when I came at a crossroads, because I let me get backtrack.

1196
01:09:02,520 --> 01:09:05,600
When I was at the one before Orange County, I was divorced by this point.

1197
01:09:05,600 --> 01:09:08,660
I was a single dad and I was getting mandatory.

1198
01:09:08,660 --> 01:09:10,320
And I was like, I cannot do that.

1199
01:09:10,320 --> 01:09:14,760
You can't tell me that a single parent, you can't tell a single parent, you can't go home.

1200
01:09:14,760 --> 01:09:16,280
You're staying for the 24th.

1201
01:09:16,280 --> 01:09:17,400
It doesn't work that way.

1202
01:09:17,400 --> 01:09:18,720
So it does not.

1203
01:09:18,720 --> 01:09:24,360
So I transitioned to this other one, which I knew wasn't going to see almost any fire.

1204
01:09:24,360 --> 01:09:27,800
And my ego, you know, I was like, look, I don't, my son is the most important thing,

1205
01:09:27,800 --> 01:09:28,800
whatever.

1206
01:09:28,800 --> 01:09:34,160
I'll run the mess calls, but I was not prepared for the complacency and the toxicity in, in

1207
01:09:34,160 --> 01:09:35,560
this department.

1208
01:09:35,560 --> 01:09:37,360
And I brought solutions to problems.

1209
01:09:37,360 --> 01:09:42,280
You know, I was not, not single-handedly me and a few other guys finally managed to get

1210
01:09:42,280 --> 01:09:43,660
PT put in orientation.

1211
01:09:43,660 --> 01:09:46,480
For example, before that they did nothing with their recruits.

1212
01:09:46,480 --> 01:09:51,080
They just did paperwork and then road rides at a theme park and no way of finding out

1213
01:09:51,080 --> 01:09:53,720
if this person can even do it or not.

1214
01:09:53,720 --> 01:09:57,180
So we did that, you know, some other trainings and things.

1215
01:09:57,180 --> 01:10:02,040
But then when I came to this crossroads, I just had knee surgery and rehab back to full

1216
01:10:02,040 --> 01:10:03,360
duty again.

1217
01:10:03,360 --> 01:10:08,760
But I, I was at that point where I'm like, I don't want to go back and it's not the job,

1218
01:10:08,760 --> 01:10:09,840
it's the place.

1219
01:10:09,840 --> 01:10:13,480
So what I would tell people is sometimes it's just a different department that you need

1220
01:10:13,480 --> 01:10:14,480
to go to.

1221
01:10:14,480 --> 01:10:15,480
Yep.

1222
01:10:15,480 --> 01:10:16,940
It's not leave the fire service.

1223
01:10:16,940 --> 01:10:18,040
Look at where you are.

1224
01:10:18,040 --> 01:10:19,360
Is it going to change in this place?

1225
01:10:19,360 --> 01:10:22,600
They're just grooming the next person for the chief and the next one.

1226
01:10:22,600 --> 01:10:23,920
So you're going to get the same person.

1227
01:10:23,920 --> 01:10:27,880
There is no, I remember when I was on Jocko, sorry, I had Jocko Willink on the podcast

1228
01:10:27,880 --> 01:10:31,960
and he was like, you're telling me that, you know, you can't go up the chain of command

1229
01:10:31,960 --> 01:10:34,040
and you know, find someone who will fix it.

1230
01:10:34,040 --> 01:10:37,360
I'm like, Jocko, this chain only has, you know, this ladder has three rungs.

1231
01:10:37,360 --> 01:10:38,360
That's it.

1232
01:10:38,360 --> 01:10:39,360
That's it.

1233
01:10:39,360 --> 01:10:40,360
Yeah.

1234
01:10:40,360 --> 01:10:41,360
And the top rung, they're just grooming the next person and the next person.

1235
01:10:41,360 --> 01:10:42,360
Oh yeah.

1236
01:10:42,360 --> 01:10:43,360
It is not going to change.

1237
01:10:43,360 --> 01:10:44,360
That's a lot of places.

1238
01:10:44,360 --> 01:10:45,360
Yeah.

1239
01:10:45,360 --> 01:10:46,360
Yeah.

1240
01:10:46,360 --> 01:10:47,360
So, so yeah.

1241
01:10:47,360 --> 01:10:50,360
So what I tell people is either firstly look at a different fire department, you know,

1242
01:10:50,360 --> 01:10:55,040
look Anaheim when I was there, you know, had my life gone differently and we didn't go

1243
01:10:55,040 --> 01:10:56,600
back out East.

1244
01:10:56,600 --> 01:11:00,720
I'd still probably be a Tillerman paramedic, you know, working.

1245
01:11:00,720 --> 01:11:04,120
Cause I, I thought I wanted to promote when I was a young firefighter and I just loved

1246
01:11:04,120 --> 01:11:05,120
the job so much.

1247
01:11:05,120 --> 01:11:06,120
I never wanted to take the test.

1248
01:11:06,120 --> 01:11:11,880
I didn't want to be on a panel or, you know, holding a, holding a radio.

1249
01:11:11,880 --> 01:11:17,120
But then the other side of the conversation is this, you served in our military for how

1250
01:11:17,120 --> 01:11:18,480
many years?

1251
01:11:18,480 --> 01:11:19,820
Six years.

1252
01:11:19,820 --> 01:11:23,720
When you tell people you served for six years, do they ever go, Oh, why'd you quit?

1253
01:11:23,720 --> 01:11:26,400
Uh, no, no, nobody.

1254
01:11:26,400 --> 01:11:27,760
People usually say, thank you for your service.

1255
01:11:27,760 --> 01:11:28,760
So that's cool.

1256
01:11:28,760 --> 01:11:29,760
And they ask what I did.

1257
01:11:29,760 --> 01:11:30,760
Yeah.

1258
01:11:30,760 --> 01:11:31,760
Exactly.

1259
01:11:31,760 --> 01:11:35,620
So the only thing that dictates that a firefighter should work for 25 years is a thing called

1260
01:11:35,620 --> 01:11:36,620
a pension.

1261
01:11:36,620 --> 01:11:37,620
Yeah.

1262
01:11:37,620 --> 01:11:39,720
That's not your drive.

1263
01:11:39,720 --> 01:11:45,520
So if you get to, let's say, you know, five or 10 years and it's not just the one department,

1264
01:11:45,520 --> 01:11:52,400
it's the whole dynamic of being a firefighter, be proud of what you've done and understand

1265
01:11:52,400 --> 01:11:58,720
that what you did in uniform was just one way of making the world better.

1266
01:11:58,720 --> 01:11:59,720
Yeah.

1267
01:11:59,720 --> 01:12:03,240
And if you have that servant's heart, that led you into the fire service or the army

1268
01:12:03,240 --> 01:12:08,880
or corrections or whatever your place was, but you can still make the world better in

1269
01:12:08,880 --> 01:12:10,560
a thousand other ways.

1270
01:12:10,560 --> 01:12:15,880
You know, you can, you know, become, you know, let's say you go into nursing or, um, you

1271
01:12:15,880 --> 01:12:21,000
know, you become a veterinary surgeon or you volunteer at a local nonprofit or you write

1272
01:12:21,000 --> 01:12:26,320
books and do podcasts or, you know, whatever the thing is, there are so many other ways.

1273
01:12:26,320 --> 01:12:29,840
So my biggest thing is you haven't failed.

1274
01:12:29,840 --> 01:12:31,560
You haven't quit.

1275
01:12:31,560 --> 01:12:35,680
You're just turning the page, you know, and that identity is so dangerous.

1276
01:12:35,680 --> 01:12:37,520
Oh, I'm a firefighter and I struggle with it now.

1277
01:12:37,520 --> 01:12:38,520
People, what do you do?

1278
01:12:38,520 --> 01:12:40,480
Oh, I sit behind a microphone.

1279
01:12:40,480 --> 01:12:41,480
I'm an influencer.

1280
01:12:41,480 --> 01:12:42,480
It sounds so down.

1281
01:12:42,480 --> 01:12:45,480
Yeah, I hear you.

1282
01:12:45,480 --> 01:12:46,800
Those terms that we use a podcast.

1283
01:12:46,800 --> 01:12:49,040
It sounds like, you know, like I'm a YouTuber.

1284
01:12:49,040 --> 01:12:52,960
Hey guys, it's your boy, James.

1285
01:12:52,960 --> 01:12:55,160
But it, you know, but my, only my identity is struggling.

1286
01:12:55,160 --> 01:12:59,280
I want to tell people that I'm a fricking heroic firefighter and I used to kick indoors

1287
01:12:59,280 --> 01:13:01,320
and, but that's not what I do now.

1288
01:13:01,320 --> 01:13:02,320
Yeah.

1289
01:13:02,320 --> 01:13:05,160
But I helped people then and I still help people now.

1290
01:13:05,160 --> 01:13:10,600
So that's what I would tell people is if you're at a point where you want to transition, you

1291
01:13:10,600 --> 01:13:13,920
know, give it some time, obviously think about it and make sure that, you know, you're talking

1292
01:13:13,920 --> 01:13:18,360
with your, your loved ones, but there are a thousand other ways to make money.

1293
01:13:18,360 --> 01:13:21,280
There are a thousand other ways to help people.

1294
01:13:21,280 --> 01:13:28,240
So if you have served for X amount of years, be proud of what you've done because even

1295
01:13:28,240 --> 01:13:31,400
if you were a 30 year firefighter, there are 40 year firefighters out there.

1296
01:13:31,400 --> 01:13:33,360
Then you'd be like, well, you know, I feel bad.

1297
01:13:33,360 --> 01:13:34,360
I should have done 40 years.

1298
01:13:34,360 --> 01:13:35,360
I should have done 50 years.

1299
01:13:35,360 --> 01:13:36,720
You know what I mean?

1300
01:13:36,720 --> 01:13:37,720
It's never going to end.

1301
01:13:37,720 --> 01:13:41,840
There's always going to be people that see more fire, run more calls, but it's about

1302
01:13:41,840 --> 01:13:43,760
you and what's most important to you.

1303
01:13:43,760 --> 01:13:47,120
And most importantly, your family dynamic.

1304
01:13:47,120 --> 01:13:51,040
If the way that you'll be in work now means that you might miss a large part of your children's

1305
01:13:51,040 --> 01:13:56,640
childhood and you're going to look back one day as they're driving away to college, maybe

1306
01:13:56,640 --> 01:14:00,680
that's more important than, you know, staying in that toxic department.

1307
01:14:00,680 --> 01:14:02,120
Yeah, man.

1308
01:14:02,120 --> 01:14:03,120
That's great.

1309
01:14:03,120 --> 01:14:04,120
That's so good.

1310
01:14:04,120 --> 01:14:07,920
I would get on something that I think, you know, I'd be lying if I said I haven't struggled

1311
01:14:07,920 --> 01:14:10,000
with, you know, you mentioned struggling with it.

1312
01:14:10,000 --> 01:14:15,160
And I think identity is a really huge piece when it comes to the fire service, right?

1313
01:14:15,160 --> 01:14:17,360
It's really easy to go to the Academy.

1314
01:14:17,360 --> 01:14:18,360
They throw you a badge.

1315
01:14:18,360 --> 01:14:19,360
You're excited.

1316
01:14:19,360 --> 01:14:20,360
You worked really hard.

1317
01:14:20,360 --> 01:14:23,000
And now you, you're a firefighter.

1318
01:14:23,000 --> 01:14:25,260
You know, it's like I came in 20 years ago.

1319
01:14:25,260 --> 01:14:26,260
It was a really big deal.

1320
01:14:26,260 --> 01:14:28,440
There were a lot of people online to get in the job.

1321
01:14:28,440 --> 01:14:30,320
You know, it wasn't like it is now.

1322
01:14:30,320 --> 01:14:32,280
I think, I think we just did a hiring process.

1323
01:14:32,280 --> 01:14:38,600
We maybe had right under 200 applicants, which is not a lot at all if we have that many.

1324
01:14:38,600 --> 01:14:40,680
But man, there was a line of people to get when I got in.

1325
01:14:40,680 --> 01:14:43,240
It was so, so exciting to get this job.

1326
01:14:43,240 --> 01:14:45,360
And I wore, but I wore that badge.

1327
01:14:45,360 --> 01:14:47,400
Like that was who I was.

1328
01:14:47,400 --> 01:14:51,320
You know, I was a firefighter and that was the biggest thing about myself.

1329
01:14:51,320 --> 01:14:52,840
So when people would ask, what do you tell them?

1330
01:14:52,840 --> 01:14:54,040
I don't tell them I'm a father.

1331
01:14:54,040 --> 01:14:56,400
I'm a husband, uncle, brother, friend.

1332
01:14:56,400 --> 01:14:57,960
I'm, I'm a firefighter.

1333
01:14:57,960 --> 01:14:58,960
That's what I do.

1334
01:14:58,960 --> 01:14:59,960
Look at me.

1335
01:14:59,960 --> 01:15:05,320
And I carried it around for years until I started to realize that I, I'm going to have

1336
01:15:05,320 --> 01:15:07,480
to leave this profession someday.

1337
01:15:07,480 --> 01:15:11,600
You know, at some point, you know, whenever it is and whether you get hurt and you're

1338
01:15:11,600 --> 01:15:15,060
out God forbid, or whether you retire, whether you realize it's not for you.

1339
01:15:15,060 --> 01:15:18,880
But I think one of the biggest things that you just touched on is something that a lot

1340
01:15:18,880 --> 01:15:23,480
of us are either know we're struggling with or have struggled with it, or just don't want

1341
01:15:23,480 --> 01:15:25,120
to admit we're struggling with.

1342
01:15:25,120 --> 01:15:27,480
But identity is a really huge piece.

1343
01:15:27,480 --> 01:15:32,520
And I think, I think what I've started to see, honestly, probably over the past 10 years

1344
01:15:32,520 --> 01:15:38,520
is that, you know, I am a father husband who serves as a firefighter.

1345
01:15:38,520 --> 01:15:42,600
Like I'm not a firefighter who serves as a father and a husband, you know, and like,

1346
01:15:42,600 --> 01:15:46,040
it's just like you said, if you have that servant's heart, there will be a place somewhere

1347
01:15:46,040 --> 01:15:50,800
in this world for you to provide, you know, provide other people with some kind of help.

1348
01:15:50,800 --> 01:15:54,040
If that's, if that's what you're here to do, there will be another place for you to serve

1349
01:15:54,040 --> 01:15:56,520
found the military, found the fire department.

1350
01:15:56,520 --> 01:16:01,040
You know, I'm at 20 years, you know, I could leave this year, I could do five more for

1351
01:16:01,040 --> 01:16:05,040
a full retirement, but I'm in the space of what's next.

1352
01:16:05,040 --> 01:16:07,520
You know, I really am in a space of what's next.

1353
01:16:07,520 --> 01:16:13,100
And for me, I can honestly say like, yes, I will miss the fire service when I walk away,

1354
01:16:13,100 --> 01:16:15,960
you know, because I'm going to walk away at some point someday.

1355
01:16:15,960 --> 01:16:17,800
But I just heard this last week and it's so good.

1356
01:16:17,800 --> 01:16:22,280
It's like, I'll miss the clowns, but I don't know that I'll miss the circus, you know,

1357
01:16:22,280 --> 01:16:25,600
and I'll miss the people we have phone numbers, I'm sure I'll keep in touch with some people.

1358
01:16:25,600 --> 01:16:28,640
I'm sure I'll be happy to walk away from some people and never see them again.

1359
01:16:28,640 --> 01:16:30,600
I mean, because that's just life.

1360
01:16:30,600 --> 01:16:35,200
But I don't, I don't know that I'll miss the circus, you know, and now it's looking at

1361
01:16:35,200 --> 01:16:38,960
my life and understanding who I am as a man, a father and a husband and looking at the

1362
01:16:38,960 --> 01:16:42,560
important things and finding other ways to impact people.

1363
01:16:42,560 --> 01:16:47,640
So if I can use the things in my life to impact people and like one of the things that, you

1364
01:16:47,640 --> 01:16:52,520
know, you left the fire service and like you said, I love that you said that man, because

1365
01:16:52,520 --> 01:16:55,840
the fire service is one of the only places where you could do a full retirement.

1366
01:16:55,840 --> 01:16:57,400
People still call you a quitter.

1367
01:16:57,400 --> 01:17:03,000
You know, you could leave it five, 10, 15, 20, 25 years and people like, I quit, you

1368
01:17:03,000 --> 01:17:06,040
know, but I love that you said that, like you did what you did.

1369
01:17:06,040 --> 01:17:08,080
You're proud of your service.

1370
01:17:08,080 --> 01:17:09,520
You did get to help a lot of people.

1371
01:17:09,520 --> 01:17:12,920
You went through a lot of different things and you can always say like, hey, this is

1372
01:17:12,920 --> 01:17:13,920
in my background.

1373
01:17:13,920 --> 01:17:14,920
This is what I've done.

1374
01:17:14,920 --> 01:17:17,720
And you've found a way to give back.

1375
01:17:17,720 --> 01:17:22,120
And I think that's one of the biggest things that guys struggle with men and women struggle

1376
01:17:22,120 --> 01:17:24,460
with when they get out of the fire services.

1377
01:17:24,460 --> 01:17:28,680
If you're not careful, if your only identity was a firefighter, you could just go home

1378
01:17:28,680 --> 01:17:33,600
and sit and that's detrimental to health.

1379
01:17:33,600 --> 01:17:38,120
I mean, there's a lot of guys that have stayed in here 30, 40 years and I'll be honest, they

1380
01:17:38,120 --> 01:17:42,600
do about three or four years and then we're attending a funeral, you know, because they're

1381
01:17:42,600 --> 01:17:43,720
not doing anything.

1382
01:17:43,720 --> 01:17:44,720
That was their only identity.

1383
01:17:44,720 --> 01:17:46,920
They don't have a way to make an impact.

1384
01:17:46,920 --> 01:17:51,700
And I love that you're like, I'm out, but there's a lot of stuff that I can help with.

1385
01:17:51,700 --> 01:17:56,400
And I think when people don't realize the guys like James, guys like me nor I'm a normal

1386
01:17:56,400 --> 01:17:57,400
person.

1387
01:17:57,400 --> 01:17:58,440
James is a normal person.

1388
01:17:58,440 --> 01:18:02,000
I bought a $60 mic off of Amazon started a podcast.

1389
01:18:02,000 --> 01:18:05,940
You know, I teamed up with another guy that is local and he bought a $60 mic.

1390
01:18:05,940 --> 01:18:07,800
We decided to do a podcast together.

1391
01:18:07,800 --> 01:18:11,360
Just James wrote a book because he wanted to make an impact based off some things in

1392
01:18:11,360 --> 01:18:12,360
his life.

1393
01:18:12,360 --> 01:18:13,960
He's been very open, honest, vulnerable.

1394
01:18:13,960 --> 01:18:16,840
Like I said, James doesn't do easy, you know, wrote a book.

1395
01:18:16,840 --> 01:18:17,840
I wrote a book.

1396
01:18:17,840 --> 01:18:18,840
I got people.

1397
01:18:18,840 --> 01:18:20,640
So we are the listeners.

1398
01:18:20,640 --> 01:18:23,320
We are you guys that are listening right now.

1399
01:18:23,320 --> 01:18:27,000
And we just, we've made choices that have put us in the places that we are to make an

1400
01:18:27,000 --> 01:18:30,200
impact in the fire service.

1401
01:18:30,200 --> 01:18:33,800
You know, in one more light and kinder, those are the two books that James has written.

1402
01:18:33,800 --> 01:18:36,400
I'm not plugging my books because they're not important right now.

1403
01:18:36,400 --> 01:18:37,560
Let's talk about them.

1404
01:18:37,560 --> 01:18:38,800
Name your books too.

1405
01:18:38,800 --> 01:18:45,160
So the, the, if I had to name my most important book, the book I wrote for impact is probably

1406
01:18:45,160 --> 01:18:49,000
my least popular book because people don't like to look in the mirror.

1407
01:18:49,000 --> 01:18:51,940
It's called engage the enemy fight for your purpose.

1408
01:18:51,940 --> 01:18:59,600
And it really dives into my personal story and my personal journey of how I like almost

1409
01:18:59,600 --> 01:19:02,440
got divorced while I was in the fire service, struggling with PTSD.

1410
01:19:02,440 --> 01:19:06,200
When I came back to the military, didn't know it was PTSD because when I got back from war

1411
01:19:06,200 --> 01:19:10,760
in 2007, they just kind of said, go home, go home, figure out your life.

1412
01:19:10,760 --> 01:19:11,760
I did.

1413
01:19:11,760 --> 01:19:14,980
I went home and did not figure out my life, jumped right in the fire service.

1414
01:19:14,980 --> 01:19:19,540
And this book really goes into me struggling through my first marriage, almost getting

1415
01:19:19,540 --> 01:19:20,540
a divorce.

1416
01:19:20,540 --> 01:19:27,000
It's really struggling with who I was as a man and finding, you know, these principles

1417
01:19:27,000 --> 01:19:29,520
that I had to apply throughout my life.

1418
01:19:29,520 --> 01:19:34,580
Most of them faith principles that, you know, won my marriage back, won my family back and

1419
01:19:34,580 --> 01:19:38,320
put me on this trajectory of I'm not just a fireman.

1420
01:19:38,320 --> 01:19:39,840
You know, I'm not just a veteran.

1421
01:19:39,840 --> 01:19:41,200
I'm not just a soldier.

1422
01:19:41,200 --> 01:19:46,400
Like I'm a husband and a father and, you know, I made a commitment and I, you know, through

1423
01:19:46,400 --> 01:19:47,720
that I got my wife back.

1424
01:19:47,720 --> 01:19:51,160
I got my family back through all the principles in this book.

1425
01:19:51,160 --> 01:19:54,720
You know, later on for the listeners that don't know, my wife passed the first wife

1426
01:19:54,720 --> 01:19:59,120
passed away in 2015, but I had reconciled with her.

1427
01:19:59,120 --> 01:20:02,460
You know, everybody thinks you have time to fix problems.

1428
01:20:02,460 --> 01:20:04,320
You know, I didn't know she was going to pass away.

1429
01:20:04,320 --> 01:20:05,880
We fixed our problems.

1430
01:20:05,880 --> 01:20:07,200
She ends up passing away.

1431
01:20:07,200 --> 01:20:10,880
Thank God we had worked through all of our things.

1432
01:20:10,880 --> 01:20:15,600
And that's why I was able to really grief, grief sucks no matter what, but I was able

1433
01:20:15,600 --> 01:20:18,920
to tackle my grief as somebody who reconciled through everything in their first marriage

1434
01:20:18,920 --> 01:20:25,560
versus untold secrets and things and guilt and shame that I would have had to deal with.

1435
01:20:25,560 --> 01:20:30,420
So it really is a deep dive into, Hey, here's who I am.

1436
01:20:30,420 --> 01:20:31,420
Here's what I did.

1437
01:20:31,420 --> 01:20:34,280
If you want to jump on the bandwagon, I'm here for you.

1438
01:20:34,280 --> 01:20:38,920
If you don't, you can keep, keep just living the same life that you want to live.

1439
01:20:38,920 --> 01:20:41,400
But just like James's book, I write books for hope.

1440
01:20:41,400 --> 01:20:43,720
You know, my life is about hope.

1441
01:20:43,720 --> 01:20:47,560
Like I've experienced a lot of hope, if you will.

1442
01:20:47,560 --> 01:20:54,200
And the darkest dimmest situations, I'm the guy that's like, ah, nope.

1443
01:20:54,200 --> 01:20:55,600
Like this works.

1444
01:20:55,600 --> 01:20:56,600
This always works.

1445
01:20:56,600 --> 01:21:00,520
And I think that's, that is one thing I love about, I think that's probably why I connect

1446
01:21:00,520 --> 01:21:04,000
with you so well is I'm like, you can't fake, you can't fake this stuff.

1447
01:21:04,000 --> 01:21:05,840
It's genuine, you know?

1448
01:21:05,840 --> 01:21:10,200
And I think when I see, I love that you said the biggest takeaway from kinder was hope

1449
01:21:10,200 --> 01:21:12,400
because I'm like, Oh man, this is James.

1450
01:21:12,400 --> 01:21:13,400
That's my life.

1451
01:21:13,400 --> 01:21:19,720
You know, like I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm the guy circled by 30 people that want to kill me

1452
01:21:19,720 --> 01:21:21,720
and I still think I can win.

1453
01:21:21,720 --> 01:21:25,860
You know, I'm, I'm turning around looking at everybody and I'm like, no, I think I could

1454
01:21:25,860 --> 01:21:28,040
at least take one of these guys out.

1455
01:21:28,040 --> 01:21:29,800
You know, I'm like, who's the biggest guy?

1456
01:21:29,800 --> 01:21:31,200
Just got to take him first.

1457
01:21:31,200 --> 01:21:34,840
And I think that is, that's how I've had to learn to live my life.

1458
01:21:34,840 --> 01:21:39,600
You know, there's, there's still some survival and some sacrifice and you know, there's things

1459
01:21:39,600 --> 01:21:43,760
you have to apply, but I think that's, that's what I love about these books that you've

1460
01:21:43,760 --> 01:21:51,680
written specifically kinder was man, and not only, and not only provided me with hope,

1461
01:21:51,680 --> 01:21:55,640
my favorite four letter word, it, it forced me to take action.

1462
01:21:55,640 --> 01:21:57,560
Like man, there, there is hope.

1463
01:21:57,560 --> 01:22:01,160
There's a version of me, you know, inside of here, there's a version of me that was

1464
01:22:01,160 --> 01:22:03,400
literally reaching out.

1465
01:22:03,400 --> 01:22:08,200
Like you know, I wrote a, I just sent James this thing that I wrote and it was basically

1466
01:22:08,200 --> 01:22:13,280
me looking at myself in a mirror, broken, tattered, scarred up bloody.

1467
01:22:13,280 --> 01:22:17,080
And the man in the mirror reached out and all he said was help.

1468
01:22:17,080 --> 01:22:21,000
And I started to realize that I'm my best, I am my best advocate.

1469
01:22:21,000 --> 01:22:26,240
You know, when it comes to help and the book really pointed me in a place of, Hey Josh,

1470
01:22:26,240 --> 01:22:27,240
are you going to help yourself?

1471
01:22:27,240 --> 01:22:29,640
Are you just going to keep living the way that you're living?

1472
01:22:29,640 --> 01:22:31,360
Your wife can say whatever she wants to say.

1473
01:22:31,360 --> 01:22:33,240
Your friends can tell you.

1474
01:22:33,240 --> 01:22:34,800
You're stubborn and bullheaded.

1475
01:22:34,800 --> 01:22:39,160
And until you actually put yourself in a position where you're going to help yourself fix some

1476
01:22:39,160 --> 01:22:45,400
things and man, the book really, really put me in a place to do that.

1477
01:22:45,400 --> 01:22:48,680
Like I said, it is so hard for me not to be like, let me tell you guys what happens in

1478
01:22:48,680 --> 01:22:52,520
chapter three, four, five and six, you know, cause I just, you know, I'm glad we've gotten

1479
01:22:52,520 --> 01:23:00,200
to talk offline about some of it because it was so impactful and really everything that

1480
01:23:00,200 --> 01:23:05,080
you're and everything that you're doing, everything that you've done, you can, it comes out in

1481
01:23:05,080 --> 01:23:07,480
this book, you know, it really does.

1482
01:23:07,480 --> 01:23:08,560
It comes out in the book.

1483
01:23:08,560 --> 01:23:16,760
And I think one of the biggest things, man, you know, we've talked about schedule changes,

1484
01:23:16,760 --> 01:23:18,620
health fitness.

1485
01:23:18,620 --> 01:23:21,600
What would you say to somebody that they're just frustrated?

1486
01:23:21,600 --> 01:23:22,920
I mean, cause I know you've been there.

1487
01:23:22,920 --> 01:23:25,160
I've been there, you know, they're frustrated.

1488
01:23:25,160 --> 01:23:26,280
They see the way things are.

1489
01:23:26,280 --> 01:23:28,480
They see the way things have been.

1490
01:23:28,480 --> 01:23:29,640
They've tried a couple of things.

1491
01:23:29,640 --> 01:23:31,400
They don't work.

1492
01:23:31,400 --> 01:23:34,200
They're listening to this podcast and they're just agreeing, agreeing, agreeing.

1493
01:23:34,200 --> 01:23:37,380
They're like, yes, yes, yes, this, that, but you don't understand.

1494
01:23:37,380 --> 01:23:40,640
What would you say to somebody who's listening to this podcast right now?

1495
01:23:40,640 --> 01:23:42,440
They've heard the self care and sabotage.

1496
01:23:42,440 --> 01:23:46,120
They agree, they're going to pick up kinder, but they're so frustrated.

1497
01:23:46,120 --> 01:23:49,320
What would you say to that person?

1498
01:23:49,320 --> 01:23:52,520
It's tough because that's what makes it so hard, you know?

1499
01:23:52,520 --> 01:23:54,380
And again, it depends on the arena.

1500
01:23:54,380 --> 01:23:59,920
You know, if I was frustrated in Anaheim, I'm pretty sure I could find, you know, a

1501
01:23:59,920 --> 01:24:03,000
large group of people that we could go to and then it would be resolved.

1502
01:24:03,000 --> 01:24:08,560
If I frustrated in my last place, you know, there's almost no allies.

1503
01:24:08,560 --> 01:24:14,360
What I would say though, if it's, you know, if it's an environment where you are staying

1504
01:24:14,360 --> 01:24:18,720
and you're going to pick up this fight, I always tell people, find, find the people

1505
01:24:18,720 --> 01:24:20,000
who get it.

1506
01:24:20,000 --> 01:24:24,600
You know, let's just take, for example, COVID, just use it as an example.

1507
01:24:24,600 --> 01:24:27,720
You've got, it's a Russian Chinese conspiracy.

1508
01:24:27,720 --> 01:24:31,120
And then you've got, if we're not wrapped in bubble wrap and a hundred miles from each

1509
01:24:31,120 --> 01:24:32,420
other, we're all going to die.

1510
01:24:32,420 --> 01:24:37,920
And in the middle are the normal people, you know, so you've got to find those other normal

1511
01:24:37,920 --> 01:24:40,780
people and then start pushing out.

1512
01:24:40,780 --> 01:24:44,680
So for example, if you're in, you know, where I live now in that fire department that is

1513
01:24:44,680 --> 01:24:51,240
resisting the 24 72 conversation, even though there was a study that they were a part of

1514
01:24:51,240 --> 01:24:55,240
and the takeaway was you need to go to 24 72.

1515
01:24:55,240 --> 01:24:59,480
Then you know, I tell people in that you've got to find the ones that are, you know, are

1516
01:24:59,480 --> 01:25:04,040
going to keep having this conversation because if you're on your own holding, you know, holding

1517
01:25:04,040 --> 01:25:08,520
the torch and no one's around you, you're going to, you're going to run out of energy.

1518
01:25:08,520 --> 01:25:10,480
You're going to just lose, lose steam.

1519
01:25:10,480 --> 01:25:15,440
So when I get phone calls and it's amazing, I've had so many phone calls from around the

1520
01:25:15,440 --> 01:25:17,600
country about 24 72.

1521
01:25:17,600 --> 01:25:20,440
I mean, you name a big metropolitan city.

1522
01:25:20,440 --> 01:25:25,200
I've had a phone call from them or somewhere close and I always tell them, look, you're

1523
01:25:25,200 --> 01:25:26,200
it.

1524
01:25:26,200 --> 01:25:27,200
You're, you're that first person.

1525
01:25:27,200 --> 01:25:32,320
And I saw a video a while ago and it was, it's not, it's not the leader that makes the

1526
01:25:32,320 --> 01:25:33,460
biggest impact.

1527
01:25:33,460 --> 01:25:35,480
It's the first follower.

1528
01:25:35,480 --> 01:25:36,800
And I love that.

1529
01:25:36,800 --> 01:25:40,920
They're there holding the torch, but it's the next person that joins you that really

1530
01:25:40,920 --> 01:25:42,600
starts those dominoes for the theme.

1531
01:25:42,600 --> 01:25:47,120
Literally as an analogy, if it's just one domino and we fall, then we just fall on the

1532
01:25:47,120 --> 01:25:48,120
ground.

1533
01:25:48,120 --> 01:25:51,240
You know, you need the next domino to then create that trail.

1534
01:25:51,240 --> 01:25:58,440
So you know, firstly dive into, you know, Josh's podcast, my podcast, there's so many

1535
01:25:58,440 --> 01:25:59,960
solutions with the 24 72.

1536
01:25:59,960 --> 01:26:05,600
I did a Q and a podcast a few weeks ago and then attached to that are episodes I did with

1537
01:26:05,600 --> 01:26:07,560
departments that have made it happen.

1538
01:26:07,560 --> 01:26:12,560
So whatever the thing is that you're frustrated about, find the information and then just

1539
01:26:12,560 --> 01:26:19,000
find who are the driven firefighters you work amongst that get it and then start getting

1540
01:26:19,000 --> 01:26:23,440
around them, reaffirming that you're, you know, that you're right in the first place

1541
01:26:23,440 --> 01:26:31,000
and then kind of, you know, forge an Alliance, you know, a movement because complacency is

1542
01:26:31,000 --> 01:26:32,160
rife in the fire service.

1543
01:26:32,160 --> 01:26:35,760
And I go a step further cowardice is rife in the fire service.

1544
01:26:35,760 --> 01:26:37,240
I'm glad you touched on that.

1545
01:26:37,240 --> 01:26:38,240
Yeah.

1546
01:26:38,240 --> 01:26:42,800
We are so courageous, you know, when we make entry or go over the side, you know, on a

1547
01:26:42,800 --> 01:26:46,200
belay line or whatever the thing is that we're doing.

1548
01:26:46,200 --> 01:26:52,520
But then like I said, we lack the courage to simply say, my family deserves to have

1549
01:26:52,520 --> 01:26:53,520
me home.

1550
01:26:53,520 --> 01:26:54,520
Yeah.

1551
01:26:54,520 --> 01:26:59,560
My children deserve to not have diseases passed through genetically because of the way that

1552
01:26:59,560 --> 01:27:02,480
I'm worked, you know, the things that I'm exposed to all these things that we should

1553
01:27:02,480 --> 01:27:03,480
be advocating for.

1554
01:27:03,480 --> 01:27:08,480
If it's not you, then take the focus on for you then and then focus on your family because

1555
01:27:08,480 --> 01:27:11,840
that's, you know, to me, that's the most important thing and it's detrimental.

1556
01:27:11,840 --> 01:27:16,800
So once you, you know, I always tell people I want to make them educated and angry.

1557
01:27:16,800 --> 01:27:20,680
Once you understand, then you start going, why the hell have we been doing it this way

1558
01:27:20,680 --> 01:27:22,520
for so long?

1559
01:27:22,520 --> 01:27:26,120
When people get it, I'm gonna give you a perfect example, the one on two off, you probably

1560
01:27:26,120 --> 01:27:27,880
heard me say this before.

1561
01:27:27,880 --> 01:27:31,000
We have the greatest schedule, work one day's on, we have two days off.

1562
01:27:31,000 --> 01:27:33,520
I work 10 days a month.

1563
01:27:33,520 --> 01:27:35,720
Bullshit.

1564
01:27:35,720 --> 01:27:38,520
Civilian work day is a nine hour day with a one hour lunch.

1565
01:27:38,520 --> 01:27:40,480
So it's an eight hour day.

1566
01:27:40,480 --> 01:27:46,800
So we work three days crammed together, back to back, of which the third part of that three

1567
01:27:46,800 --> 01:27:50,920
days bleeds into that second day because we get off at, you know, seven, eight in the

1568
01:27:50,920 --> 01:27:54,160
morning and then you have a day off one day.

1569
01:27:54,160 --> 01:27:57,440
So three days on one day off, which is 30 days a month.

1570
01:27:57,440 --> 01:27:58,440
Yep.

1571
01:27:58,440 --> 01:28:02,600
So when people, and that was a huge penny drop moment when I put that video out, people

1572
01:28:02,600 --> 01:28:03,960
were like, I've never thought of it that way.

1573
01:28:03,960 --> 01:28:08,420
And I hadn't, you know, when we realized that we'd been hoodwinked, not out of malice, but

1574
01:28:08,420 --> 01:28:11,700
a devolution of our working environment.

1575
01:28:11,700 --> 01:28:14,800
Now people can go, well, that's just not acceptable.

1576
01:28:14,800 --> 01:28:21,120
Why is Starbucks barista working 40 and I work 56 and then I get told I can't go home

1577
01:28:21,120 --> 01:28:24,260
and that's an 80 hour work week, double what the barista does.

1578
01:28:24,260 --> 01:28:27,380
And I have to be awake and push drugs and do all the things.

1579
01:28:27,380 --> 01:28:32,400
So that's what I would tell them is, you know, forge that Alliance, you know, get people

1580
01:28:32,400 --> 01:28:33,400
educated.

1581
01:28:33,400 --> 01:28:36,120
And then if you're still falling on deaf ears, then maybe that is that conversation that

1582
01:28:36,120 --> 01:28:39,160
we just touched on of a different department or even a transition out.

1583
01:28:39,160 --> 01:28:43,520
Cause for me, this journey took me outside the walls of the fire service because I'm

1584
01:28:43,520 --> 01:28:48,120
like the only way I can speak for the men and women I love is to not be attached to

1585
01:28:48,120 --> 01:28:49,120
any department.

1586
01:28:49,120 --> 01:28:53,280
Then I can speak freely and I can say, I can call out my local department here at Marion

1587
01:28:53,280 --> 01:28:58,480
County and say, you know, if you refuse to change anything, then don't come to the funerals.

1588
01:28:58,480 --> 01:28:59,480
Yep.

1589
01:28:59,480 --> 01:29:03,000
You know, you're part of the problem, you know, but you can't say that if you're wearing

1590
01:29:03,000 --> 01:29:04,920
the Marion County uniform, for example.

1591
01:29:04,920 --> 01:29:10,160
So you know, this is, uh, this is it, but I think that, you know, it's really just storytelling

1592
01:29:10,160 --> 01:29:12,760
going back to your books and my books.

1593
01:29:12,760 --> 01:29:17,320
If you can get people that understand the concept and then realize that that's not the

1594
01:29:17,320 --> 01:29:22,200
right way of doing it and then infuse that hope that there is another way that will be

1595
01:29:22,200 --> 01:29:23,960
better.

1596
01:29:23,960 --> 01:29:25,400
That's when you start a movement.

1597
01:29:25,400 --> 01:29:26,800
No, man, man.

1598
01:29:26,800 --> 01:29:30,720
I think, uh, you know, it's funny cause when you put out that video, I think I'd, I'd,

1599
01:29:30,720 --> 01:29:33,520
you know, kind of seen some of your stuff on social media here and there, but you're

1600
01:29:33,520 --> 01:29:34,520
right.

1601
01:29:34,520 --> 01:29:36,540
That's the video that I saw that I went, wait a minute.

1602
01:29:36,540 --> 01:29:40,480
And I broke down my own schedule for a couple of guys at work and a browse on actually on

1603
01:29:40,480 --> 01:29:41,820
a road trip.

1604
01:29:41,820 --> 01:29:45,720
And I played that, just that video for my wife and she was like, oh my gosh, your schedule

1605
01:29:45,720 --> 01:29:46,720
is terrible.

1606
01:29:46,720 --> 01:29:49,600
You know, cause she's, she's, she's, you know, she's hoodwinked too, if you will.

1607
01:29:49,600 --> 01:29:50,680
Like you said, not out of malice.

1608
01:29:50,680 --> 01:29:54,240
Like, yeah, he's home all these days, but then, you know, so we put it together.

1609
01:29:54,240 --> 01:29:56,840
So I'm going to, I'm going to break down the schedule that I work for you based off of

1610
01:29:56,840 --> 01:30:00,520
what you just said, cause it's actually, it's terrible.

1611
01:30:00,520 --> 01:30:03,520
And I'm running into guys in my department who are like, no, we have the greatest schedule

1612
01:30:03,520 --> 01:30:04,520
in the world.

1613
01:30:04,520 --> 01:30:07,360
And then when I break it down to them this way, they're like, they kind of walk away

1614
01:30:07,360 --> 01:30:09,280
a little bit upset, you know?

1615
01:30:09,280 --> 01:30:13,360
So, so the, basically our schedule starts on a Tuesday, right?

1616
01:30:13,360 --> 01:30:16,400
So I'll work 24 hours on a Tuesday and get off Wednesday morning.

1617
01:30:16,400 --> 01:30:20,660
Well, I'm off that morning, but I have to go back Thursday for 24 hours.

1618
01:30:20,660 --> 01:30:22,280
So Wednesday is not a rest day.

1619
01:30:22,280 --> 01:30:25,720
I get off Wednesday morning and immediately I have to get prepared to go back to work

1620
01:30:25,720 --> 01:30:27,760
on Thursday for 24 hours.

1621
01:30:27,760 --> 01:30:29,720
So I work another 24 hours on Thursday.

1622
01:30:29,720 --> 01:30:33,960
Well, they got off Friday morning, but I get off Friday morning and I'm immediately preparing

1623
01:30:33,960 --> 01:30:36,560
to go back to work on Saturday morning for 24 hours.

1624
01:30:36,560 --> 01:30:37,980
So there's no recovery.

1625
01:30:37,980 --> 01:30:40,780
It's basically a, Hey, we'll see you tomorrow.

1626
01:30:40,780 --> 01:30:42,880
So I work Saturday 24 hours.

1627
01:30:42,880 --> 01:30:48,360
Well, Sunday I'm off, you know, I'm off for 24 hours to get prepared to come back on Monday

1628
01:30:48,360 --> 01:30:49,640
for 24 hours.

1629
01:30:49,640 --> 01:30:51,140
So there's no rest.

1630
01:30:51,140 --> 01:30:55,480
So for a full 96 hours, we've had absolutely no rest.

1631
01:30:55,480 --> 01:30:58,000
So then when people are like, well, you get a three day break.

1632
01:30:58,000 --> 01:30:59,000
Okay.

1633
01:30:59,000 --> 01:31:00,000
I worked 24 hours that Monday.

1634
01:31:00,000 --> 01:31:01,280
I get off Tuesday.

1635
01:31:01,280 --> 01:31:07,320
Tuesday is my, Oh my gosh, I just work four 24 hour shifts every other day.

1636
01:31:07,320 --> 01:31:08,700
Tuesday's a wash.

1637
01:31:08,700 --> 01:31:12,840
My wife knows not to plan anything on Tuesdays because Tuesday I'm a wreck because I'm finally

1638
01:31:12,840 --> 01:31:16,000
just excited to be home and sleep in my own bed at night.

1639
01:31:16,000 --> 01:31:17,640
So Wednesday I'm off.

1640
01:31:17,640 --> 01:31:19,200
I get a day of rest.

1641
01:31:19,200 --> 01:31:20,200
It's kind of nice.

1642
01:31:20,200 --> 01:31:21,200
It's middle of the week.

1643
01:31:21,200 --> 01:31:25,160
Thursday I'm preparing to go back to work on Friday to work the weekend again.

1644
01:31:25,160 --> 01:31:27,080
Friday comes 24 hours shift.

1645
01:31:27,080 --> 01:31:28,520
I'm off Saturday morning.

1646
01:31:28,520 --> 01:31:32,400
Doesn't really matter because I got to be back to work Sunday for 24 hours.

1647
01:31:32,400 --> 01:31:34,600
Sunday I come back to work for 24 hours.

1648
01:31:34,600 --> 01:31:38,120
I have Monday off, which is kind of a recovery day.

1649
01:31:38,120 --> 01:31:42,380
Tuesday I'm getting prepared to go back to work on Wednesday for 24 hours off.

1650
01:31:42,380 --> 01:31:44,720
And here is where people say we have the best schedule in the world.

1651
01:31:44,720 --> 01:31:48,200
We have a five day break, which is not even a five day break.

1652
01:31:48,200 --> 01:31:52,280
By the time we get the five day break, the only thing I care about aside from seeing

1653
01:31:52,280 --> 01:31:54,800
my family is actually just sleep.

1654
01:31:54,800 --> 01:31:56,280
Like I'm on five day break right now.

1655
01:31:56,280 --> 01:32:01,480
My most exciting thing to do was to just get in bed and know that I didn't have to go anywhere

1656
01:32:01,480 --> 01:32:04,160
this morning, you know, and then the next morning.

1657
01:32:04,160 --> 01:32:07,320
So we have one week in the month where we have five days off.

1658
01:32:07,320 --> 01:32:08,580
The first day's a wash.

1659
01:32:08,580 --> 01:32:10,160
The last day's a wash.

1660
01:32:10,160 --> 01:32:11,440
Really we have three days in the middle.

1661
01:32:11,440 --> 01:32:16,120
If we're talking about actual rest, it's that one day in the middle of my five day break,

1662
01:32:16,120 --> 01:32:20,000
which would be the Saturday that I actually am probably rested where my family gets the

1663
01:32:20,000 --> 01:32:21,680
best version of me.

1664
01:32:21,680 --> 01:32:26,160
And then I'm slowly mentally preparing myself to go back to work on Tuesday because I know

1665
01:32:26,160 --> 01:32:30,400
at some point on Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, I'm going to have to work mandatory overtime

1666
01:32:30,400 --> 01:32:31,900
somewhere in there.

1667
01:32:31,900 --> 01:32:34,560
So it's not just a 96 hour work week.

1668
01:32:34,560 --> 01:32:37,080
You could throw another 12 hours on top of that.

1669
01:32:37,080 --> 01:32:44,720
So that takes that 72 to an 84 or that 96 to whatever you add 12 to that 108 hours.

1670
01:32:44,720 --> 01:32:48,160
It's crazy or I think it's 111, something like that.

1671
01:32:48,160 --> 01:32:49,560
It's way more.

1672
01:32:49,560 --> 01:32:54,360
So when you break down my schedule with the analogy that you gave in that video, I've

1673
01:32:54,360 --> 01:32:58,040
done that for people so many times and they're like, Oh, our schedule is terrible.

1674
01:32:58,040 --> 01:33:02,560
And I'm like, yes, for rest and recovery and family, it is terrible.

1675
01:33:02,560 --> 01:33:05,480
And I think, you know, when me and my wife first got married, it was, yeah, I only worked

1676
01:33:05,480 --> 01:33:06,960
10 days a month, 24 hour shifts.

1677
01:33:06,960 --> 01:33:08,240
And she thought it was really cool.

1678
01:33:08,240 --> 01:33:14,040
She'd never been around the fire service before, but she started to see what a day off is really

1679
01:33:14,040 --> 01:33:15,040
like.

1680
01:33:15,040 --> 01:33:19,520
You know, when I work 24 hours at station 10 and station 10 runs 20 calls at a 24 hour

1681
01:33:19,520 --> 01:33:24,400
shift and then I'm, I come home and just really just, I want to be a good husband and spend

1682
01:33:24,400 --> 01:33:26,800
time, but I'm exhausted.

1683
01:33:26,800 --> 01:33:31,040
You know, she's, she's looking at me like these days off, aren't real days off.

1684
01:33:31,040 --> 01:33:33,320
You know, they're, they're just not real days off.

1685
01:33:33,320 --> 01:33:37,320
And recently, um, I was up for promotion back in the spring.

1686
01:33:37,320 --> 01:33:38,880
They put me at a really busy house.

1687
01:33:38,880 --> 01:33:42,440
I was at a not so busy house, which was kind of nice for family.

1688
01:33:42,440 --> 01:33:46,600
For three months, I was at a busy house and my wife was looking at me like I was insane.

1689
01:33:46,600 --> 01:33:48,540
Uh, they had no captain there.

1690
01:33:48,540 --> 01:33:49,960
I was on the captain's list.

1691
01:33:49,960 --> 01:33:51,320
They were going to promote 10 people.

1692
01:33:51,320 --> 01:33:53,280
I was number five.

1693
01:33:53,280 --> 01:33:57,160
It was almost a shoe in at that point and they don't have a captain at the busy house

1694
01:33:57,160 --> 01:33:58,240
that I'm filling in at.

1695
01:33:58,240 --> 01:34:01,920
And her biggest worry was, are they going to leave you at this firehouse?

1696
01:34:01,920 --> 01:34:06,360
Because I don't really like the version of you that's here, uh, when you're here.

1697
01:34:06,360 --> 01:34:09,200
And it wasn't, you know, one, I'm just tired.

1698
01:34:09,200 --> 01:34:10,200
I'm exhausted.

1699
01:34:10,200 --> 01:34:14,560
You know, you run 20 car, 20 calls at a 24 hour shift, you know, and you know, there's

1700
01:34:14,560 --> 01:34:17,840
no rest till that one day on your five day break.

1701
01:34:17,840 --> 01:34:23,500
Um, you know, there were days I fell asleep in her talking with a cup of coffee in my

1702
01:34:23,500 --> 01:34:29,240
hand and I would wake up and she's like, you were literally asleep for five minutes, you

1703
01:34:29,240 --> 01:34:33,280
know, and, and, and, you know, you started to look back and I'm like, well, I'm, I'm

1704
01:34:33,280 --> 01:34:34,280
42 now.

1705
01:34:34,280 --> 01:34:35,280
I'm not 19.

1706
01:34:35,280 --> 01:34:39,640
Um, like you said, I'm educated and I'm a little angry, you know?

1707
01:34:39,640 --> 01:34:43,080
And I think, but usually if you're educated and angry, that usually drives a little bit

1708
01:34:43,080 --> 01:34:44,080
of passion.

1709
01:34:44,080 --> 01:34:46,240
You'll get some vision and then you can put some mission behind your vision and get some

1710
01:34:46,240 --> 01:34:48,240
goals accomplished, you know?

1711
01:34:48,240 --> 01:34:52,440
But when you put out that video about the schedules and I think one of the biggest thing

1712
01:34:52,440 --> 01:34:56,320
I'm things I'm realizing now, and it's a, it's a hard place to be, to realize that,

1713
01:34:56,320 --> 01:34:59,480
man, you really have to be your own advocate.

1714
01:34:59,480 --> 01:35:04,080
You know, I'm at 20 years and the biggest thing for my fam, for my life right now, it's

1715
01:35:04,080 --> 01:35:05,560
my wife and my kids.

1716
01:35:05,560 --> 01:35:06,560
It is my wife and my kids.

1717
01:35:06,560 --> 01:35:08,360
And people ask me, what are you going to do when you retire?

1718
01:35:08,360 --> 01:35:12,080
I'm like, well, I'm kind of hoping my oldest has some kids in the next five years.

1719
01:35:12,080 --> 01:35:16,280
I want to be a full-time granddad, you know, like I really don't want to do.

1720
01:35:16,280 --> 01:35:17,680
There's other things I want to do.

1721
01:35:17,680 --> 01:35:21,480
There's dreams and aspirations I have, but I'm like, man, it'd be great to just be available

1722
01:35:21,480 --> 01:35:24,600
to just help her with her kids, you know?

1723
01:35:24,600 --> 01:35:26,960
And it's kind of where I'm at, you know?

1724
01:35:26,960 --> 01:35:31,280
It's like, what am I going to do to make sure I'm taking care of myself?

1725
01:35:31,280 --> 01:35:37,080
And I am a huge, uh, I'm not an advocate for sick leave abuse, but I am a huge advocate

1726
01:35:37,080 --> 01:35:42,280
for if you have a sick leave benefit through your city and you just need time off for the

1727
01:35:42,280 --> 01:35:45,800
sake of rest, you should be allowed to do that.

1728
01:35:45,800 --> 01:35:51,320
Uh, and you talk about a stigma around taking care of yourself, dude, it's insane.

1729
01:35:51,320 --> 01:35:56,180
I think honestly, after I read your book, uh, I took three days off of work and three

1730
01:35:56,180 --> 01:35:59,320
days off of work put me out for almost two weeks.

1731
01:35:59,320 --> 01:36:01,260
You know, I had a nagging shoulder injury too.

1732
01:36:01,260 --> 01:36:03,040
So I was like, let me just go get this checked out.

1733
01:36:03,040 --> 01:36:04,640
And they were like, you probably do need some rest.

1734
01:36:04,640 --> 01:36:07,800
It like, it all worked out at the perfect time because at the time I was off for my

1735
01:36:07,800 --> 01:36:12,520
shoulder just stretching and taking care of that and just doing actual rest, all this

1736
01:36:12,520 --> 01:36:18,000
mental health stuff came out, you know, but it's, I use my sick leave benefit and it put

1737
01:36:18,000 --> 01:36:22,400
me off for a couple of weeks and I felt like I was got myself right again and went back

1738
01:36:22,400 --> 01:36:24,300
to work, you know?

1739
01:36:24,300 --> 01:36:28,440
And we're harping on guys for, you need a mental health day?

1740
01:36:28,440 --> 01:36:29,760
What do you mean you need a mental health day?

1741
01:36:29,760 --> 01:36:30,760
What's that like?

1742
01:36:30,760 --> 01:36:34,360
Well, I mean, he's worn out, you know?

1743
01:36:34,360 --> 01:36:36,200
Why can't he just take a day?

1744
01:36:36,200 --> 01:36:38,640
And you know, I tell my guys all the time, which probably isn't popular.

1745
01:36:38,640 --> 01:36:40,040
I'm like, Hey, we need a day.

1746
01:36:40,040 --> 01:36:41,040
Take a day.

1747
01:36:41,040 --> 01:36:42,040
You need one, take two.

1748
01:36:42,040 --> 01:36:43,040
Like it doesn't matter.

1749
01:36:43,040 --> 01:36:44,760
I need you here healthy.

1750
01:36:44,760 --> 01:36:46,960
I need you here on the job healthy to be able to do the job.

1751
01:36:46,960 --> 01:36:49,100
If you're going to come to work, let's be able to do it.

1752
01:36:49,100 --> 01:36:51,440
But if you're a mess, stay home.

1753
01:36:51,440 --> 01:36:53,960
And I'm not telling them to stay home because you know, you're a shit bag.

1754
01:36:53,960 --> 01:36:56,080
I'm like, Hey, I want you to be your best while you're here.

1755
01:36:56,080 --> 01:36:58,880
If you're not your best while you're here, I think you should stay home and get to a

1756
01:36:58,880 --> 01:36:59,880
point where you can be your best.

1757
01:36:59,880 --> 01:37:02,840
You got to take care of yourself.

1758
01:37:02,840 --> 01:37:08,200
You know, and I think, do you think that you've, like you said, you were in the fire service,

1759
01:37:08,200 --> 01:37:10,280
you were trying to get some of this done in the fire service.

1760
01:37:10,280 --> 01:37:13,200
You got some things that implemented in one of your departments.

1761
01:37:13,200 --> 01:37:17,760
Do you think you've been more impactful and effective now that you've been out of the

1762
01:37:17,760 --> 01:37:18,760
fire service?

1763
01:37:18,760 --> 01:37:22,800
Because I know you just said like, now it allows you to, you know, call out Marion County

1764
01:37:22,800 --> 01:37:27,100
and say, Hey, if you don't want to change things, then you're part of the problem.

1765
01:37:27,100 --> 01:37:31,280
How much of an impact do you think you've been able to have outside of the fire service

1766
01:37:31,280 --> 01:37:33,800
as opposed to inside the fire service?

1767
01:37:33,800 --> 01:37:36,760
I'm going to answer that, but I just want to go back to the sick time thing because

1768
01:37:36,760 --> 01:37:39,680
this is important as well.

1769
01:37:39,680 --> 01:37:45,880
The department sort of gone to 24 72 report a lot less sick time usage.

1770
01:37:45,880 --> 01:37:52,480
So if you're concerned about that, then that's that conversely think about this.

1771
01:37:52,480 --> 01:38:00,760
Firefighters are so incredibly kind that they don't want to take a day off if it's going

1772
01:38:00,760 --> 01:38:04,600
to cause mandatory overtime or screw someone else.

1773
01:38:04,600 --> 01:38:08,520
You know, and I mean, I've, I've lost count of how many times I've received this and I've

1774
01:38:08,520 --> 01:38:13,600
done, you know, I've been the person that's, that's helped so and so is going to get hit.

1775
01:38:13,600 --> 01:38:19,280
They've got a, you know, a eight month old, you know, will jump on the grenade forum so

1776
01:38:19,280 --> 01:38:20,280
they don't get hit.

1777
01:38:20,280 --> 01:38:21,280
You know what I mean?

1778
01:38:21,280 --> 01:38:26,040
So this is what's scary as well as a people that need those sick days aren't taking them

1779
01:38:26,040 --> 01:38:27,800
because it's so understaffed.

1780
01:38:27,800 --> 01:38:30,000
They're worried it's going to screw someone else.

1781
01:38:30,000 --> 01:38:32,360
It's not going to affect the person pushing paper.

1782
01:38:32,360 --> 01:38:33,760
It goes home at five.

1783
01:38:33,760 --> 01:38:37,440
It's going to affect, you know, the guy in station two that you know is on the bubble

1784
01:38:37,440 --> 01:38:44,880
now and you need that sick day, but you don't take it because you don't want to affect them

1785
01:38:44,880 --> 01:38:48,240
and therefore then you're paying, you know, and it's just amplifying the issue.

1786
01:38:48,240 --> 01:38:53,640
So I think, you know, again, problems and solutions fully staffed fire department 24

1787
01:38:53,640 --> 01:38:59,820
72 not only is no one on the bubble now because, you know, overtime is few and far between

1788
01:38:59,820 --> 01:39:03,420
absolutely appropriate when there's hurricanes and all the things.

1789
01:39:03,420 --> 01:39:06,920
And then I love the kind of, you know, day over time, you know, you've got events and

1790
01:39:06,920 --> 01:39:09,800
that kind of thing training.

1791
01:39:09,800 --> 01:39:15,640
But you know, when, when you have a healthy department, they're not using sick time as

1792
01:39:15,640 --> 01:39:19,560
much, you know, so, and I like the PTO, I like the paid leave thing where you don't

1793
01:39:19,560 --> 01:39:21,160
even call it sick time.

1794
01:39:21,160 --> 01:39:24,600
Here's the amount, you know, here's this much time off and be a vacation.

1795
01:39:24,600 --> 01:39:26,960
You can be when you're sick, whatever, just use it.

1796
01:39:26,960 --> 01:39:31,480
Or you're not having to call up chief, you know, with the whole kind of Oscar winning

1797
01:39:31,480 --> 01:39:33,280
performance that we've all done in the past.

1798
01:39:33,280 --> 01:39:34,280
Oh my gosh.

1799
01:39:34,280 --> 01:39:35,280
Yeah.

1800
01:39:35,280 --> 01:39:36,280
I mean, a hundred percent.

1801
01:39:36,280 --> 01:39:37,280
Yeah.

1802
01:39:37,280 --> 01:39:38,280
So yeah, so there's that.

1803
01:39:38,280 --> 01:39:43,200
Yeah, that's a, it's funny because, you know, I always do these podcasts and I'm like, how

1804
01:39:43,200 --> 01:39:46,800
can I stay out of trouble with my department while I do these podcasts just in case people

1805
01:39:46,800 --> 01:39:50,440
are listening, you know, but when it comes to the sick leave stuff, you know, now we

1806
01:39:50,440 --> 01:39:55,320
have, not that it's already, you know, the fire services and compromise when it comes

1807
01:39:55,320 --> 01:39:59,200
to like certain morale issues and we have a lot going on, you know, and everybody, I

1808
01:39:59,200 --> 01:40:02,280
think if everybody would tackle their little piece, we'd be a lot better.

1809
01:40:02,280 --> 01:40:07,720
But you know, now we have implemented sick policies that make it so it's even more discouraged

1810
01:40:07,720 --> 01:40:08,880
for you to take time off.

1811
01:40:08,880 --> 01:40:14,520
And if you take these time, take the sick leave off for whatever reason, or you refuse

1812
01:40:14,520 --> 01:40:19,360
to work mandatory overtime, now you're penalized and you can't work regular overtime to actually

1813
01:40:19,360 --> 01:40:20,360
control your overtime.

1814
01:40:20,360 --> 01:40:24,360
And I'm like, where, where does this stop?

1815
01:40:24,360 --> 01:40:28,360
And I think where it stops is people to say, that's enough.

1816
01:40:28,360 --> 01:40:31,000
Like we're actually not doing this anymore.

1817
01:40:31,000 --> 01:40:36,520
And I don't, I don't know that administrative people or the executive staff knows that I'm

1818
01:40:36,520 --> 01:40:37,800
going to get in trouble for this one.

1819
01:40:37,800 --> 01:40:42,960
Don't care that you can go to doctorsnote.com and you can just get a doctor's note, you

1820
01:40:42,960 --> 01:40:43,960
know?

1821
01:40:43,960 --> 01:40:46,360
So like you said, it's this Oscar winning performance where they're like, you got to

1822
01:40:46,360 --> 01:40:48,560
have a doctor's note like newsflash.

1823
01:40:48,560 --> 01:40:50,760
You can get a doctor's note from anywhere.

1824
01:40:50,760 --> 01:40:52,760
So stop putting your, yeah.

1825
01:40:52,760 --> 01:40:59,160
Like stop putting your people in a position where they have to do this Oscar winning performance

1826
01:40:59,160 --> 01:41:01,840
or they got to go pay their $30 for a doctor's note.

1827
01:41:01,840 --> 01:41:06,320
Because I'm going to tell you right now, if it only cost me $30 to take three days off,

1828
01:41:06,320 --> 01:41:07,840
like that's a pretty sweet deal.

1829
01:41:07,840 --> 01:41:12,720
I mean, you could spend $30 to go on a Starbucks for one day for a drink and a pastry, you

1830
01:41:12,720 --> 01:41:13,720
know?

1831
01:41:13,720 --> 01:41:17,640
So it's, and guys will do it if that's what they do to need to take care of themselves.

1832
01:41:17,640 --> 01:41:22,280
But we're putting as departments, we put people in these positions.

1833
01:41:22,280 --> 01:41:26,360
I always say who, what cat goes into a bathtub willingly?

1834
01:41:26,360 --> 01:41:28,680
There's no cat that goes into the bathtub willingly.

1835
01:41:28,680 --> 01:41:33,080
Or like, you know, I'm pretty, I'm pretty nice for the most part, but you keep backing

1836
01:41:33,080 --> 01:41:35,960
me up into that corner, you might at least see a fighting stance.

1837
01:41:35,960 --> 01:41:38,880
You're only going to get so close before I reach out and grab your wrist.

1838
01:41:38,880 --> 01:41:44,320
Like, you know, and I think that's what these departments don't realize is we're pushing

1839
01:41:44,320 --> 01:41:47,560
these men and women in the fire service to the brink.

1840
01:41:47,560 --> 01:41:51,600
And some of it we say, oh, it's not malice.

1841
01:41:51,600 --> 01:41:55,480
And the people that are educated, I mean, I'm just going to go there.

1842
01:41:55,480 --> 01:42:00,360
It is malice when you're educated and you have all the knowledge and somebody like James

1843
01:42:00,360 --> 01:42:05,040
has presented all these things to you and you know, there's a solution and now you refuse

1844
01:42:05,040 --> 01:42:06,040
to do it.

1845
01:42:06,040 --> 01:42:07,680
It can be seen as malice.

1846
01:42:07,680 --> 01:42:13,480
So now I am pushing my men and women to the brink, just seeing how much they can take,

1847
01:42:13,480 --> 01:42:15,040
hoping they don't break.

1848
01:42:15,040 --> 01:42:19,080
And then when they do break, I'm going to say, why aren't people working for my department?

1849
01:42:19,080 --> 01:42:21,280
You know, whatever department this is, you know?

1850
01:42:21,280 --> 01:42:26,720
And I think that is a lot of, unfortunately, what we see nowadays is, let me see how much

1851
01:42:26,720 --> 01:42:28,840
these men and women can take.

1852
01:42:28,840 --> 01:42:34,880
And it's so sad because like what we're seeing and the things that you've seen and the things

1853
01:42:34,880 --> 01:42:39,520
that drove you to write these books is when you push men and women to the brink and see

1854
01:42:39,520 --> 01:42:42,040
how much they can take, people break.

1855
01:42:42,040 --> 01:42:46,380
And unfortunately, God bless their souls, sometimes they do take their own life because

1856
01:42:46,380 --> 01:42:48,160
they're broken.

1857
01:42:48,160 --> 01:42:51,400
And I think these departments don't want to take responsibility for it.

1858
01:42:51,400 --> 01:42:53,440
There's no way that I caused that.

1859
01:42:53,440 --> 01:42:57,680
Did you did the one single event that you did cause that person to take their own life?

1860
01:42:57,680 --> 01:42:59,040
I'm not saying that.

1861
01:42:59,040 --> 01:43:04,000
But is there something that you could have done to make things better?

1862
01:43:04,000 --> 01:43:07,640
To not push people in your department to the brink?

1863
01:43:07,640 --> 01:43:14,800
And I think it's irresponsible to and you know, it's partly, you know, being a coward

1864
01:43:14,800 --> 01:43:17,400
of we're going to just see.

1865
01:43:17,400 --> 01:43:19,920
We have all the knowledge, we'll just see.

1866
01:43:19,920 --> 01:43:22,040
And if something happens here, we'll fix it.

1867
01:43:22,040 --> 01:43:28,020
So does somebody have to take their own life in these departments for things to change?

1868
01:43:28,020 --> 01:43:31,560
Because unfortunately, even with that, I'm sure you've seen this too, where somebody

1869
01:43:31,560 --> 01:43:33,580
takes their own life.

1870
01:43:33,580 --> 01:43:38,560
We do the flag draped coffin, we do the ceremony, we say things are going to change.

1871
01:43:38,560 --> 01:43:44,320
And a year later, we're doing the same thing that we've been doing for the past 20 years

1872
01:43:44,320 --> 01:43:45,820
saying, well, it happened.

1873
01:43:45,820 --> 01:43:47,920
There's no way it's going to happen again.

1874
01:43:47,920 --> 01:43:52,200
And I think what we're not understanding is like, it may not happen in our department

1875
01:43:52,200 --> 01:43:55,320
again, but we are all brothers and sisters in the fire service.

1876
01:43:55,320 --> 01:43:59,560
And these suicides impact and affect everybody around the country.

1877
01:43:59,560 --> 01:44:01,640
It's not just one man or woman.

1878
01:44:01,640 --> 01:44:08,700
And the last thing I want is for my department to start making changes because somebody took

1879
01:44:08,700 --> 01:44:14,760
their own life on an apron of a fire station one day, because there will be factors that

1880
01:44:14,760 --> 01:44:18,800
led up to that, that we could have done and we could have implemented.

1881
01:44:18,800 --> 01:44:24,680
And the fact that these things are happening and people aren't making changes, guys like

1882
01:44:24,680 --> 01:44:29,080
you, thank God you're in the industry raising a flag saying, let's do some things.

1883
01:44:29,080 --> 01:44:31,400
But yeah, it's crazy.

1884
01:44:31,400 --> 01:44:37,080
Well, just to underline what you said, we had the Florida Fallen Firefighter Memorial

1885
01:44:37,080 --> 01:44:39,480
last weekend.

1886
01:44:39,480 --> 01:44:45,400
And one of the guys who was the honor guard, career firefighter, he was a piper in the

1887
01:44:45,400 --> 01:44:46,960
band.

1888
01:44:46,960 --> 01:44:50,080
He ended up taking his life that weekend.

1889
01:44:50,080 --> 01:44:51,240
He was honoring the fallen.

1890
01:44:51,240 --> 01:44:52,560
He ended up taking his life.

1891
01:44:52,560 --> 01:44:57,080
And then two days later, we lost a Miami Beach firefighter to suicide.

1892
01:44:57,080 --> 01:44:58,080
You know what I mean?

1893
01:44:58,080 --> 01:45:04,280
So Marion, we had a couple of years ago, we had two young firefighters within 12 weeks

1894
01:45:04,280 --> 01:45:05,280
of each other.

1895
01:45:05,280 --> 01:45:09,360
Those were two of four that we lost, I think, in as many years.

1896
01:45:09,360 --> 01:45:10,720
So this is what I don't understand.

1897
01:45:10,720 --> 01:45:13,320
I always tell people like, all right, just give me a body count.

1898
01:45:13,320 --> 01:45:16,200
How many have to die before you change?

1899
01:45:16,200 --> 01:45:19,280
We'll line the rest of them up against the wall, we'll shoot them and then we can start

1900
01:45:19,280 --> 01:45:20,280
changing.

1901
01:45:20,280 --> 01:45:21,680
Is there a number you're waiting for?

1902
01:45:21,680 --> 01:45:22,680
That's crazy.

1903
01:45:22,680 --> 01:45:23,680
Yeah.

1904
01:45:23,680 --> 01:45:29,000
But people ask me again a lot, oh, what about the data, when it comes to the 2472 and all

1905
01:45:29,000 --> 01:45:30,880
these conversations?

1906
01:45:30,880 --> 01:45:32,480
And there isn't any.

1907
01:45:32,480 --> 01:45:35,380
Why has the union not talked about this address?

1908
01:45:35,380 --> 01:45:37,680
This is another entire conversation in itself.

1909
01:45:37,680 --> 01:45:46,200
But what I was thinking recently, if you ever do statistics or scientific research, you

1910
01:45:46,200 --> 01:45:48,460
come up with a hypothesis.

1911
01:45:48,460 --> 01:45:53,160
And then if I'm not mistaken, the null hypothesis is kind of saying, well, the equal and opposite

1912
01:45:53,160 --> 01:45:55,120
should be true as well.

1913
01:45:55,120 --> 01:45:58,680
So what I would tell the fire service is, well, we've done it this way that you want

1914
01:45:58,680 --> 01:46:00,640
us to do it.

1915
01:46:00,640 --> 01:46:06,360
And it's resulted in a recruitment crisis or retention crisis, destruction of marriages,

1916
01:46:06,360 --> 01:46:11,200
cancer, testosterone destruction, suicide, overdoses, alcoholism.

1917
01:46:11,200 --> 01:46:18,040
So the null hypothesis surely is, well, if we fix the things that are broken, then all

1918
01:46:18,040 --> 01:46:20,280
of those things are going to improve.

1919
01:46:20,280 --> 01:46:24,720
So as the phrase that I love says, don't wait for science to prove that you already know

1920
01:46:24,720 --> 01:46:26,160
is true.

1921
01:46:26,160 --> 01:46:27,920
We know what's broken.

1922
01:46:27,920 --> 01:46:28,920
We know it.

1923
01:46:28,920 --> 01:46:31,440
I mean, like I said, I've underlined this.

1924
01:46:31,440 --> 01:46:36,680
If a frickin ding dong from England can come across the pond, become a firefighter and

1925
01:46:36,680 --> 01:46:42,080
find these people that have the solutions through a podcast, why the hell haven't the

1926
01:46:42,080 --> 01:46:48,000
people with the bugles or the people that take millions of union dues every year figured

1927
01:46:48,000 --> 01:46:49,800
this out already?

1928
01:46:49,800 --> 01:46:53,880
So I mean, we know because you know what the problem is.

1929
01:46:53,880 --> 01:46:58,260
You're just too scared to actually step up and say this needs to be fixed.

1930
01:46:58,260 --> 01:46:59,760
So this is what I struggle with.

1931
01:46:59,760 --> 01:47:04,200
But this again, going back to the hope conversation, the solution is there.

1932
01:47:04,200 --> 01:47:07,920
Anyone that tells you it'll never happen, we don't have the money, we can't get the

1933
01:47:07,920 --> 01:47:14,240
people and all these, there is a completely legitimate solid answer to each one of these.

1934
01:47:14,240 --> 01:47:19,280
And the money is already being spent bleeding in overtime, bleeding in, you know, the recruits

1935
01:47:19,280 --> 01:47:22,640
that you train that then leave your department two or three years later.

1936
01:47:22,640 --> 01:47:26,320
The you know, the lawsuits from mistakes we made was so sleep deprived, the workman's

1937
01:47:26,320 --> 01:47:31,120
comp claims, the medical retirements, the line of duty deaths, millions and millions

1938
01:47:31,120 --> 01:47:35,280
and millions of dollars are pissing downstream.

1939
01:47:35,280 --> 01:47:40,440
So all of the excuses that I hear are completely null and void.

1940
01:47:40,440 --> 01:47:44,200
You know, there are some idiosyncrasies depending on a department.

1941
01:47:44,200 --> 01:47:51,320
It goes down to the fact of how are you okay, that your firefighters work 56 hours and you

1942
01:47:51,320 --> 01:47:56,280
go home when you hit 40, you close the chief store or the city or county council members

1943
01:47:56,280 --> 01:47:58,680
door or whatever the door is.

1944
01:47:58,680 --> 01:48:01,120
And you let your lay your head on your pillow.

1945
01:48:01,120 --> 01:48:05,560
And then you know, meanwhile, they're just ramping up for whoever is the next person

1946
01:48:05,560 --> 01:48:06,960
is going to drop from something.

1947
01:48:06,960 --> 01:48:08,800
So this is what I struggle with.

1948
01:48:08,800 --> 01:48:14,120
And this is why I want people to be educated and angry and realize that you are worth fighting

1949
01:48:14,120 --> 01:48:17,000
for your family is worth fighting for.

1950
01:48:17,000 --> 01:48:21,440
Yeah, I love that man that that educated and angry because it's so true because once you

1951
01:48:21,440 --> 01:48:26,000
become educated, you should become a little bit angry, you know, and that, you know, that

1952
01:48:26,000 --> 01:48:27,320
will force you to take some action.

1953
01:48:27,320 --> 01:48:31,440
And one thing you just said is like, you are worth fighting for and your family is worth

1954
01:48:31,440 --> 01:48:32,440
fighting for.

1955
01:48:32,440 --> 01:48:38,080
And I think, you know, you know, back to the book, one of the things like a lot of this

1956
01:48:38,080 --> 01:48:42,000
is really big, like we've talked about a lot of big stuff on the podcast today, like, you

1957
01:48:42,000 --> 01:48:47,440
know, the 24 72, how that is the best schedule in the fire service, there's really no argument

1958
01:48:47,440 --> 01:48:48,440
there.

1959
01:48:48,440 --> 01:48:49,440
I don't even argue with people anymore.

1960
01:48:49,440 --> 01:48:53,600
You know, and we know it, we know what we need to be doing to take care of ourselves,

1961
01:48:53,600 --> 01:48:58,080
you know, and I think the first step, like you're like, I have no idea what to do.

1962
01:48:58,080 --> 01:48:59,600
I don't know how to take care of myself.

1963
01:48:59,600 --> 01:49:00,920
I don't know what hope looks like.

1964
01:49:00,920 --> 01:49:03,440
I've never experienced hope.

1965
01:49:03,440 --> 01:49:04,640
Never read a book on hope.

1966
01:49:04,640 --> 01:49:07,000
You know, I would, I would pick up kinder.

1967
01:49:07,000 --> 01:49:11,920
I would go kinder and so just so you can understand what this job looks like.

1968
01:49:11,920 --> 01:49:17,500
And one thing I want to touch on before I go is so I read kinder.

1969
01:49:17,500 --> 01:49:19,920
I've been in the fire department 20 years.

1970
01:49:19,920 --> 01:49:25,280
I'm a firefighter and everything we have talked about on this podcast today, not only impacts

1971
01:49:25,280 --> 01:49:29,360
me as a firefighter, as a man that's been in the fire service, but it also impacts my

1972
01:49:29,360 --> 01:49:32,440
spouse and it also impacts my kids.

1973
01:49:32,440 --> 01:49:36,480
How important would you say it is for not only just the firemen that pick up kinder

1974
01:49:36,480 --> 01:49:40,520
and read it, men, women, whatever, but how important would you say it is for a spouse

1975
01:49:40,520 --> 01:49:45,340
or somebody that's not in the fire service to pick up kinder and read this book to really

1976
01:49:45,340 --> 01:49:51,120
understand what we deal with, what we go through and get this real and raw story.

1977
01:49:51,120 --> 01:49:52,720
So what would you say to that?

1978
01:49:52,720 --> 01:49:54,800
No, I mean, that's, that's the other side.

1979
01:49:54,800 --> 01:49:59,360
So like I said, with one more light, that was also what I wanted to do was, you know,

1980
01:49:59,360 --> 01:50:04,120
we were in the meat grinder and it's funny because, you know, when people say, oh, you

1981
01:50:04,120 --> 01:50:05,120
know, how am I doing?

1982
01:50:05,120 --> 01:50:06,960
I feel like I'm constructing, oh, you're fine.

1983
01:50:06,960 --> 01:50:10,520
Because you know, if you and I are in the station, we're both in the meat grinder.

1984
01:50:10,520 --> 01:50:12,760
So we seem okay.

1985
01:50:12,760 --> 01:50:16,120
Our loved ones are the barometer that we need.

1986
01:50:16,120 --> 01:50:22,080
You know, I remember I was working in Orange County and then, um, working as a lifeguard

1987
01:50:22,080 --> 01:50:26,680
on my two days off, you know, one day off and the day that I got off shift.

1988
01:50:26,680 --> 01:50:28,680
Um, so seven days a week.

1989
01:50:28,680 --> 01:50:33,240
And I remember going on a Skype call with my mom and she goes, darling, you look like

1990
01:50:33,240 --> 01:50:34,240
you're dying.

1991
01:50:34,240 --> 01:50:35,240
Yeah.

1992
01:50:35,240 --> 01:50:36,240
That's what you need to hear.

1993
01:50:36,240 --> 01:50:37,240
Right.

1994
01:50:37,240 --> 01:50:40,720
Like shit or your hair trigger or all the things.

1995
01:50:40,720 --> 01:50:42,200
That's what they're able to tell us.

1996
01:50:42,200 --> 01:50:43,200
Yeah.

1997
01:50:43,200 --> 01:50:46,960
So from a family member, I think it's extremely important because it really gives them an

1998
01:50:46,960 --> 01:50:50,920
insight into, you know, they come and they visit the station and they sit down and have

1999
01:50:50,920 --> 01:50:54,360
dinner with you, but they're not running calls at two in the morning with you.

2000
01:50:54,360 --> 01:50:58,360
They're not listening to the chief berate you after you just had a PD code and then

2001
01:50:58,360 --> 01:51:03,040
you didn't wear your damn traffic vest backing the rescue out in the hospital bay.

2002
01:51:03,040 --> 01:51:04,040
You know what I mean?

2003
01:51:04,040 --> 01:51:05,400
They didn't see all those things.

2004
01:51:05,400 --> 01:51:12,320
And then for the, the everyone else, you know, the other, you know, whatever it is, 344 million

2005
01:51:12,320 --> 01:51:17,080
people in America, they get to see what we actually do because I've said this on the

2006
01:51:17,080 --> 01:51:21,680
show so many times, we have done a horrendous job of branding the fire service.

2007
01:51:21,680 --> 01:51:22,680
Yeah.

2008
01:51:22,680 --> 01:51:24,360
Why is there a fire engine on my medical core?

2009
01:51:24,360 --> 01:51:26,200
What are we buying you for dinner today?

2010
01:51:26,200 --> 01:51:28,780
All these things and you can't blame them.

2011
01:51:28,780 --> 01:51:29,780
What have we done to teach them?

2012
01:51:29,780 --> 01:51:30,780
Nothing.

2013
01:51:30,780 --> 01:51:31,780
Nothing.

2014
01:51:31,780 --> 01:51:33,080
All they know is calendars and Chicago fire.

2015
01:51:33,080 --> 01:51:34,080
That's it.

2016
01:51:34,080 --> 01:51:35,640
And you know, and cats in trees.

2017
01:51:35,640 --> 01:51:40,920
So, so yeah, so I also wanted to really, and this is where I think, you know, that equally

2018
01:51:40,920 --> 01:51:45,960
is so important because then if you can educate the people of what we do, the public support

2019
01:51:45,960 --> 01:51:51,400
would be so much higher and the pressure on, you know, on the, the bad politicians that

2020
01:51:51,400 --> 01:51:54,900
are opposing fixing this would be so much stronger.

2021
01:51:54,900 --> 01:51:58,200
And hopefully some of these politicians would be watching this and go, I didn't realize

2022
01:51:58,200 --> 01:51:59,700
that was going on.

2023
01:51:59,700 --> 01:52:02,000
We do need to change this.

2024
01:52:02,000 --> 01:52:06,120
So yeah, so this is why, you know, as a reader, it's for everyone.

2025
01:52:06,120 --> 01:52:07,960
It's not for young children.

2026
01:52:07,960 --> 01:52:09,320
It's definitely raw.

2027
01:52:09,320 --> 01:52:10,320
Right.

2028
01:52:10,320 --> 01:52:11,720
It is.

2029
01:52:11,720 --> 01:52:14,640
But then again, I, you know, I'm not going to use the word hope.

2030
01:52:14,640 --> 01:52:17,480
I will make it into a TV show.

2031
01:52:17,480 --> 01:52:18,920
Yeah.

2032
01:52:18,920 --> 01:52:26,040
And like you said, I imagine that story, but then with the music and you know, all the

2033
01:52:26,040 --> 01:52:32,360
cinematrix cinematography or the, you know, the, the dramatic element as well.

2034
01:52:32,360 --> 01:52:38,120
I mean, that story would grab people by the throat, you know, and I don't think that the

2035
01:52:38,120 --> 01:52:40,520
fire service would be viewed the same way after that.

2036
01:52:40,520 --> 01:52:43,720
I think it would, you know, it wouldn't be the Tacoma FD in Chicago fire.

2037
01:52:43,720 --> 01:52:49,080
It would be like, Oh my, you know, I mean, I liken it to imagine if band and brothers

2038
01:52:49,080 --> 01:52:50,680
and Ted Lasso had a baby.

2039
01:52:50,680 --> 01:52:51,680
Yeah.

2040
01:52:51,680 --> 01:52:55,840
You do have a great comparison, but you have takeaways as well.

2041
01:52:55,840 --> 01:52:58,360
I love that because there's some fire department shows out there.

2042
01:52:58,360 --> 01:53:03,080
You know, Chicago fire is out there to come after he is out there and the rescue me series

2043
01:53:03,080 --> 01:53:08,280
from 2000s was out there to come a fire hilarious over the top.

2044
01:53:08,280 --> 01:53:09,640
Nothing like what we deal with.

2045
01:53:09,640 --> 01:53:12,800
It's every prank in an episode that I've done in 20 years.

2046
01:53:12,800 --> 01:53:13,800
Right.

2047
01:53:13,800 --> 01:53:14,800
And then Chicago fire.

2048
01:53:14,800 --> 01:53:18,360
It's your typical drama, obviously, you know, so yeah.

2049
01:53:18,360 --> 01:53:19,880
So fire department soap opera.

2050
01:53:19,880 --> 01:53:20,880
Yeah.

2051
01:53:20,880 --> 01:53:23,600
And I'm rescue me was one of the most unhealthy fire department shows I've ever seen in my

2052
01:53:23,600 --> 01:53:24,600
life.

2053
01:53:24,600 --> 01:53:29,400
I mean, it was a drama and some of it was pretty realistic, but no, what you're talking

2054
01:53:29,400 --> 01:53:31,440
about, I love it.

2055
01:53:31,440 --> 01:53:35,200
That's a perfect description of band of brothers and Ted Lasso had a baby.

2056
01:53:35,200 --> 01:53:36,200
Yeah.

2057
01:53:36,200 --> 01:53:40,100
I really, I love how you describe that because if you've seen those two, you could understand

2058
01:53:40,100 --> 01:53:41,680
how those go together.

2059
01:53:41,680 --> 01:53:47,560
And I think the reason I asked the spouse question was because in reading kinder and

2060
01:53:47,560 --> 01:53:53,320
getting through that book, recognizing like how Jack spouse in the book was so supportive

2061
01:53:53,320 --> 01:53:57,720
and realize that, Hey, like I did not realize all these things were taking place.

2062
01:53:57,720 --> 01:54:00,440
I saw some things, but I didn't know it was like this.

2063
01:54:00,440 --> 01:54:04,720
And she, she held his hand through this entire journey.

2064
01:54:04,720 --> 01:54:08,120
And you know, they, they got, they, you know, for lack of better terms, they get their life

2065
01:54:08,120 --> 01:54:12,020
back, you know, and I don't even get their life back, but it start to experience a life

2066
01:54:12,020 --> 01:54:18,560
that maybe didn't, they know they could have, you know, so it really gave light to how supportive

2067
01:54:18,560 --> 01:54:22,100
as a spouse that you can be.

2068
01:54:22,100 --> 01:54:25,520
And I think it's, you know, for me, I, you know, I always tell everybody I married a

2069
01:54:25,520 --> 01:54:30,320
champion, you know, I don't, I don't know that, you know, my wife said something the

2070
01:54:30,320 --> 01:54:32,440
other day, she said, I'm glad I beat all the other girls.

2071
01:54:32,440 --> 01:54:34,240
I said, ah, it was always you, babe.

2072
01:54:34,240 --> 01:54:36,560
There's nobody else that could have done this.

2073
01:54:36,560 --> 01:54:37,560
There was no line.

2074
01:54:37,560 --> 01:54:39,040
Like it was, it was always you.

2075
01:54:39,040 --> 01:54:43,920
It was always going to be you, you know, regardless of what I've ever been through, it was always

2076
01:54:43,920 --> 01:54:46,620
her and she's been so supportive.

2077
01:54:46,620 --> 01:54:51,200
And honestly, looking back at some of the stuff I've been through with mental health,

2078
01:54:51,200 --> 01:54:56,960
I mean, I would have to credit my wife is saving my life because she's the one originally

2079
01:54:56,960 --> 01:55:00,080
who pretty much got me to somebody that could actually help me.

2080
01:55:00,080 --> 01:55:03,160
Cause I went through a lot of counseling, uh, did a lot of stuff.

2081
01:55:03,160 --> 01:55:07,120
I finally actually took me sitting down with somebody that did some prayer counseling stuff

2082
01:55:07,120 --> 01:55:09,360
to really work through some things.

2083
01:55:09,360 --> 01:55:13,300
But she mean, for lack of better terms, like she literally saved my life.

2084
01:55:13,300 --> 01:55:18,480
I was years ago, I was sitting in a chair watching Netflix, which I never do.

2085
01:55:18,480 --> 01:55:22,240
And I was like, this is it, this is my life, but on a mask had a really great year.

2086
01:55:22,240 --> 01:55:25,840
I mean, I got firefighter the year of that year, got the fire service medal honor that

2087
01:55:25,840 --> 01:55:26,840
year.

2088
01:55:26,840 --> 01:55:29,800
I got promoted that year, best year of my life in the fire service.

2089
01:55:29,800 --> 01:55:35,040
But at home I was drowning and considering suicide, you know, on my wife was so supportive,

2090
01:55:35,040 --> 01:55:37,520
recognize things really took over the house.

2091
01:55:37,520 --> 01:55:42,320
Um, you know, she's kind of a single mom for a little while, you know, pulled me out of

2092
01:55:42,320 --> 01:55:44,000
the dump and got me help.

2093
01:55:44,000 --> 01:55:48,680
And, and, you know, here I am years later, I finally got to a point where I thought I

2094
01:55:48,680 --> 01:55:49,680
was good.

2095
01:55:49,680 --> 01:55:50,680
And I think I was good.

2096
01:55:50,680 --> 01:55:54,200
I was functioning and I got to this plateau, been doing life really well.

2097
01:55:54,200 --> 01:55:57,840
And then realized that God wanted me to tackle some other areas in my life through James's

2098
01:55:57,840 --> 01:55:58,840
book.

2099
01:55:58,840 --> 01:56:03,800
It was like, okay, you've been here and I'm, I'm proud of your kid, but we still have

2100
01:56:03,800 --> 01:56:08,520
more work to do because there's still an even better version inside of you that you haven't

2101
01:56:08,520 --> 01:56:09,720
accessed yet.

2102
01:56:09,720 --> 01:56:10,720
And that's one thing I love.

2103
01:56:10,720 --> 01:56:12,400
Like my wife got me the help that I needed.

2104
01:56:12,400 --> 01:56:17,560
I got to this place and I think it's, it's one of those things where you reach a mountain,

2105
01:56:17,560 --> 01:56:18,560
but life isn't over.

2106
01:56:18,560 --> 01:56:21,040
You know, you reach a mountain top and you're like, man, it's exciting.

2107
01:56:21,040 --> 01:56:23,920
I feel like I'm doing pretty good, but life isn't over.

2108
01:56:23,920 --> 01:56:24,920
And you got two options.

2109
01:56:24,920 --> 01:56:28,160
You know, it might be time for you to climb another mountain, you know, which is where

2110
01:56:28,160 --> 01:56:29,360
I think I'm at right now.

2111
01:56:29,360 --> 01:56:34,080
But sometimes you got to go back in that valley and pull the people up to where you're at.

2112
01:56:34,080 --> 01:56:36,080
And that is what I love about kinder James.

2113
01:56:36,080 --> 01:56:42,600
It is, it is truly that mountain top of a book that is looking behind itself and saying,

2114
01:56:42,600 --> 01:56:46,600
Hey, everybody that's down in the valley, like I want to, I'm reaching out your hand

2115
01:56:46,600 --> 01:56:50,760
and you're pulling people up this mountain, you know, and you've created a path, whether

2116
01:56:50,760 --> 01:56:55,440
you realize it or not, you've literally created a path for people to walk and to be able to

2117
01:56:55,440 --> 01:57:01,840
do that through a fictional story that they can relate to, you know, and I, the TV series,

2118
01:57:01,840 --> 01:57:04,800
man, I can't even, I'm, I'm over here.

2119
01:57:04,800 --> 01:57:07,160
Like I can't wait for this to happen.

2120
01:57:07,160 --> 01:57:08,160
So I'm with you.

2121
01:57:08,160 --> 01:57:10,520
I'm not saying I hope I'm saying it will.

2122
01:57:10,520 --> 01:57:11,520
And man, I'm excited.

2123
01:57:11,520 --> 01:57:12,880
You're recording the audio book right now.

2124
01:57:12,880 --> 01:57:14,360
Are you, are you halfway into that?

2125
01:57:14,360 --> 01:57:16,360
How far are you into that?

2126
01:57:16,360 --> 01:57:19,960
It's been a very busy week or so.

2127
01:57:19,960 --> 01:57:22,040
So I made a start.

2128
01:57:22,040 --> 01:57:27,560
I think I've got four chapters done, but there's 32 or 33, I think.

2129
01:57:27,560 --> 01:57:32,400
So but then after this week, you know, we've got the Thanksgiving week and I'll be really

2130
01:57:32,400 --> 01:57:35,020
kind of doubled down because I want to get it out early December.

2131
01:57:35,020 --> 01:57:36,160
So that's my goal.

2132
01:57:36,160 --> 01:57:38,360
But yeah, that's, that's another way you talk about imposter syndrome.

2133
01:57:38,360 --> 01:57:39,360
Oh my God.

2134
01:57:39,360 --> 01:57:42,880
I actually was messaging Josh Brolin this the other day because he just released his

2135
01:57:42,880 --> 01:57:47,260
book from under the truck, which again, another book recommendation.

2136
01:57:47,260 --> 01:57:54,160
If anyone's read his forward in one more light, that man is a wordsmith.

2137
01:57:54,160 --> 01:57:55,160
Like I've never seen before.

2138
01:57:55,160 --> 01:57:56,160
Oh, he can write.

2139
01:57:56,160 --> 01:57:57,160
It was crazy.

2140
01:57:57,160 --> 01:57:58,160
I forgot I was reading.

2141
01:57:58,160 --> 01:58:02,360
I forgot I was reading your book when I read that I was like, Oh, this is Josh Brolin.

2142
01:58:02,360 --> 01:58:06,360
And then when you do the audio book for one more light, I always joke with people.

2143
01:58:06,360 --> 01:58:10,080
I'm like, I literally have to follow because he narrated his forward.

2144
01:58:10,080 --> 01:58:14,560
I mean, you talk about, you know, how amazing is that that someone is busy and, and, you

2145
01:58:14,560 --> 01:58:17,720
know, with the platform that he has took the time to do that.

2146
01:58:17,720 --> 01:58:18,720
Yeah.

2147
01:58:18,720 --> 01:58:23,000
But then, so he narrates from the best voices in Hollywood and then my squeaky ass English

2148
01:58:23,000 --> 01:58:26,200
voice has to do the rest.

2149
01:58:26,200 --> 01:58:29,700
But when you're reading, cause I'm doing it now, we're kinder and obviously there's characters.

2150
01:58:29,700 --> 01:58:34,120
So you're having to kind of read and kind of have different inflections to suggest,

2151
01:58:34,120 --> 01:58:39,240
you know, as a woman or a child or whatever, you think of imposter syndrome is bad when

2152
01:58:39,240 --> 01:58:43,760
you're writing, when you start narrating and in your reading your own book and he like,

2153
01:58:43,760 --> 01:58:46,160
ah, that sentence, I don't like the way that flows.

2154
01:58:46,160 --> 01:58:49,800
You just, oh, that bloody imposter syndrome is horrendous.

2155
01:58:49,800 --> 01:58:53,320
So that is something that I, and Josh said the same thing.

2156
01:58:53,320 --> 01:58:55,680
He said it drove him crazy, you know?

2157
01:58:55,680 --> 01:58:57,600
So that's another challenge.

2158
01:58:57,600 --> 01:58:59,200
I don't think people realize.

2159
01:58:59,200 --> 01:59:01,240
Hopefully the result will be good.

2160
01:59:01,240 --> 01:59:07,360
I mean, I, a lot of fiction authors will hire an actor, but I just didn't feel like an actor

2161
01:59:07,360 --> 01:59:12,960
would be able to understand where these people were.

2162
01:59:12,960 --> 01:59:18,000
So yeah, so you know, you're reading it, but yeah, I mean, the whole time your voice is

2163
01:59:18,000 --> 01:59:20,240
just telling you, oh my God, you sound stupid.

2164
01:59:20,240 --> 01:59:23,080
That's not an American accent, you know, whatever the thing is.

2165
01:59:23,080 --> 01:59:25,080
Then you're reading and the, oh, there's a typo there.

2166
01:59:25,080 --> 01:59:27,000
They didn't catch it in editing.

2167
01:59:27,000 --> 01:59:31,640
So, so yeah, so it's an interesting, extremely humbling thing.

2168
01:59:31,640 --> 01:59:35,960
If anyone's written a book, just do the audio book and you'll see what I'm talking about.

2169
01:59:35,960 --> 01:59:37,200
But I mean, people love it.

2170
01:59:37,200 --> 01:59:42,320
When I put it out, like I was going to narrate, people said they really enjoyed One More Light.

2171
01:59:42,320 --> 01:59:45,480
So then I'm like, all right, remember that, remember that people like the first one.

2172
01:59:45,480 --> 01:59:47,120
You're not awful.

2173
01:59:47,120 --> 01:59:52,160
But that, yeah, that imposter syndrome, that bloody voice in our head is, uh, it's there

2174
01:59:52,160 --> 01:59:53,160
for all of us.

2175
01:59:53,160 --> 01:59:57,600
I don't care who you are, even one of my Delta guests was saying, dude, you want to talk

2176
01:59:57,600 --> 02:00:01,760
about imposter syndrome, go to a team room in Delta.

2177
02:00:01,760 --> 02:00:06,320
The highest performing soldiers in the U S he said it is rife.

2178
02:00:06,320 --> 02:00:10,840
So, um, so yeah, but I mean that, that you talk about a mirror and everything that is,

2179
02:00:10,840 --> 02:00:16,720
uh, that is a challenge is you're not only reading your own book, you're trying to ignore

2180
02:00:16,720 --> 02:00:20,720
the troll that lives rent for you in your head as well.

2181
02:00:20,720 --> 02:00:21,720
Yeah.

2182
02:00:21,720 --> 02:00:22,720
No.

2183
02:00:22,720 --> 02:00:25,280
So I listened to One More Light and I thought it was great.

2184
02:00:25,280 --> 02:00:28,960
So you know, when you said you were doing the audio book for kinder, I was like, well,

2185
02:00:28,960 --> 02:00:29,960
great.

2186
02:00:29,960 --> 02:00:32,800
Now I can just download this and it's a, it's a story.

2187
02:00:32,800 --> 02:00:37,140
Like there are some stories that I always, um, their go-to is, are just playback over

2188
02:00:37,140 --> 02:00:38,640
and over and over.

2189
02:00:38,640 --> 02:00:44,080
Um, shameless plug for the travelers gift by Andy Andrews, one of the best, one of the

2190
02:00:44,080 --> 02:00:48,400
best audio books I've ever listened to in my life.

2191
02:00:48,400 --> 02:00:54,680
Um, this guy's, he's a crazy just story in general in his own life, but the concept behind

2192
02:00:54,680 --> 02:00:59,280
this book is, you know, he's just, he's lost all hope.

2193
02:00:59,280 --> 02:01:02,120
And you know, the beginning of the book, he's getting ready to crash his car into a tree.

2194
02:01:02,120 --> 02:01:06,360
And then all of a sudden he wakes up in Harry S Truman's office when he's about to make

2195
02:01:06,360 --> 02:01:08,360
the decision to drop the bomb.

2196
02:01:08,360 --> 02:01:12,680
And he has these conversations over the book with like six different characters throughout

2197
02:01:12,680 --> 02:01:15,400
history where he travels through the travels through time.

2198
02:01:15,400 --> 02:01:18,640
It has to bring back this gift to where he lives now.

2199
02:01:18,640 --> 02:01:23,160
I mean, the book is the storyteller is phenomenal and there are so many real principles and

2200
02:01:23,160 --> 02:01:24,160
real takeaways.

2201
02:01:24,160 --> 02:01:28,200
Um, you know, so, but no, I listened to one more light.

2202
02:01:28,200 --> 02:01:29,200
It was great.

2203
02:01:29,200 --> 02:01:30,200
I went back and I listened to it.

2204
02:01:30,200 --> 02:01:31,760
I'm an, I love audio books.

2205
02:01:31,760 --> 02:01:34,960
Um, so when you said kinder and audio book, I was like, this is great.

2206
02:01:34,960 --> 02:01:38,600
And like you said, it's another, it's another reach because there are people that only listen

2207
02:01:38,600 --> 02:01:39,600
to audio books.

2208
02:01:39,600 --> 02:01:40,600
They'll never read it.

2209
02:01:40,600 --> 02:01:43,200
But I mean, but you're right.

2210
02:01:43,200 --> 02:01:48,920
The cancer syndrome is real and as many positive comments as you have, you'll have one person

2211
02:01:48,920 --> 02:01:52,240
that says something stupid and that's what you focus on.

2212
02:01:52,240 --> 02:01:56,040
You know, I just, I made the mistake of going on Amazon and just looking at my reviews and

2213
02:01:56,040 --> 02:02:00,880
I've had so many positive, so much positive feedback from jump seat leadership, like so

2214
02:02:00,880 --> 02:02:03,320
much like, I love the fact that it's short.

2215
02:02:03,320 --> 02:02:04,320
It's an easy read.

2216
02:02:04,320 --> 02:02:05,320
I can read it an hour.

2217
02:02:05,320 --> 02:02:06,320
I'm like, oh, this is why I wrote it.

2218
02:02:06,320 --> 02:02:09,640
You know, people saying like the reasons you wrote it or the reasons they're, they love

2219
02:02:09,640 --> 02:02:10,640
it.

2220
02:02:10,640 --> 02:02:15,840
And then one guy leaves a one star review and said, this book is a lazy cash, cash grab.

2221
02:02:15,840 --> 02:02:20,340
And I was like that, that let that bother me for a full day, you know?

2222
02:02:20,340 --> 02:02:22,160
And I was like, hang on a second.

2223
02:02:22,160 --> 02:02:26,800
Like one guy, like, I know it's not a lazy cash grab, you know, like, yeah, I know what

2224
02:02:26,800 --> 02:02:30,000
it, I know the years it took for me to put into that book.

2225
02:02:30,000 --> 02:02:31,000
Like, sure.

2226
02:02:31,000 --> 02:02:33,360
It took you an hour and a half to read it, which is why I wrote it.

2227
02:02:33,360 --> 02:02:37,360
But I know the years of experience and heartache that went into the experience that I put in

2228
02:02:37,360 --> 02:02:38,560
the book, you know?

2229
02:02:38,560 --> 02:02:40,920
So I had to kind of talk myself out of it.

2230
02:02:40,920 --> 02:02:45,400
And then I went back and, you know, change my description to address that one star reviewer

2231
02:02:45,400 --> 02:02:48,240
because you can't address them anymore on Amazon.

2232
02:02:48,240 --> 02:02:51,840
So I said, this is the kind of book it is of regardless of what the guy with the one

2233
02:02:51,840 --> 02:02:55,960
star review left, you know, I found a way to give them a jab.

2234
02:02:55,960 --> 02:02:56,960
But now you're right.

2235
02:02:56,960 --> 02:03:01,680
The imposter syndrome is a hundred percent real, but I love the fact that even you're

2236
02:03:01,680 --> 02:03:07,720
working through that imposter syndrome because it's important and you know, it's important.

2237
02:03:07,720 --> 02:03:09,360
I love, I don't know if you've ever seen that meme.

2238
02:03:09,360 --> 02:03:10,360
It's outside a cafe.

2239
02:03:10,360 --> 02:03:15,200
It says, come try the worst cop cup of coffee one man on Yelp's ever had.

2240
02:03:15,200 --> 02:03:16,560
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

2241
02:03:16,560 --> 02:03:17,560
No, I have.

2242
02:03:17,560 --> 02:03:18,560
No, it's great.

2243
02:03:18,560 --> 02:03:22,680
Like, and that's just, it's just like, you just got to embrace it and move forward.

2244
02:03:22,680 --> 02:03:25,840
Anyway, there's always going to be somebody that disagrees, hates what you're doing, doesn't

2245
02:03:25,840 --> 02:03:28,680
agree, but it's not their mission, you know?

2246
02:03:28,680 --> 02:03:32,200
And that's one thing I realized is like, you know, there's, there's a vision for my life.

2247
02:03:32,200 --> 02:03:33,200
There's a mission for my life.

2248
02:03:33,200 --> 02:03:37,340
There are things that only I can accomplish, only I can do.

2249
02:03:37,340 --> 02:03:38,520
And I'm going to do those things.

2250
02:03:38,520 --> 02:03:40,320
And if you don't like it, that's okay.

2251
02:03:40,320 --> 02:03:42,200
Like I don't, I don't actually need you.

2252
02:03:42,200 --> 02:03:43,660
That's not a requirement.

2253
02:03:43,660 --> 02:03:47,960
Like nowhere when I, when I write down the vision and mission for my life, does it say,

2254
02:03:47,960 --> 02:03:49,400
does this person like it?

2255
02:03:49,400 --> 02:03:50,400
It just doesn't say that.

2256
02:03:50,400 --> 02:03:55,080
And I have to remind myself with this imposter syndrome that this is my life.

2257
02:03:55,080 --> 02:03:56,260
This, these is my wife.

2258
02:03:56,260 --> 02:03:57,560
These are my kids.

2259
02:03:57,560 --> 02:04:01,360
These are my, this is my faith, my values, my morals, my ethics.

2260
02:04:01,360 --> 02:04:07,020
And there's no, there's no list of people that I have to live my life for.

2261
02:04:07,020 --> 02:04:09,400
And I love that.

2262
02:04:09,400 --> 02:04:10,400
I love your mission.

2263
02:04:10,400 --> 02:04:11,400
I love the vision.

2264
02:04:11,400 --> 02:04:12,400
I love what you're doing, man.

2265
02:04:12,400 --> 02:04:17,600
These books are, oh man, I don't, like I said, I, most people that know me, you know, I

2266
02:04:17,600 --> 02:04:18,680
don't blow smoke.

2267
02:04:18,680 --> 02:04:22,680
You know, if you have not read one more light or listened to one more light, you need to

2268
02:04:22,680 --> 02:04:24,360
go out and get it.

2269
02:04:24,360 --> 02:04:26,720
I do agree with, with James.

2270
02:04:26,720 --> 02:04:32,160
Like if you are running academies, you know, this is a book that everybody should be reading

2271
02:04:32,160 --> 02:04:35,640
before they joined the fire service, cause it will give them an insight into the career

2272
02:04:35,640 --> 02:04:36,880
that they're about to jump into.

2273
02:04:36,880 --> 02:04:40,560
We don't really do a good job of telling people what this job entails.

2274
02:04:40,560 --> 02:04:45,040
And you know, the other side of that is kinder kinder is another great book.

2275
02:04:45,040 --> 02:04:50,400
So people can look down the road and say, Hey, if this is what could happen and it kinders

2276
02:04:50,400 --> 02:04:55,040
a story of hope, it's a hundred percent a story of hope and restoration and redemption.

2277
02:04:55,040 --> 02:04:59,640
But if this is what could happen, what preventative measures can I take to make sure that I don't

2278
02:04:59,640 --> 02:05:01,960
ever have to go down this road?

2279
02:05:01,960 --> 02:05:05,660
Because I love the fact that kinder is a hope story and it's restoration.

2280
02:05:05,660 --> 02:05:09,520
It's redemptive, but I've always said, I've been through these situations in my life where

2281
02:05:09,520 --> 02:05:14,780
I love my redemption story, but I don't want my kids to have to experience what I've experienced

2282
02:05:14,780 --> 02:05:16,200
to be redeemed.

2283
02:05:16,200 --> 02:05:19,900
I'd like to use those experiences to walk them down a path where they have to never

2284
02:05:19,900 --> 02:05:22,560
have to experience what I've experienced.

2285
02:05:22,560 --> 02:05:26,320
And maybe they make their own choices, but it's not going to be because I chose to not

2286
02:05:26,320 --> 02:05:28,040
deal with things.

2287
02:05:28,040 --> 02:05:31,820
James, is there any, I mean, this is your podcast.

2288
02:05:31,820 --> 02:05:33,120
Is there anything I missed?

2289
02:05:33,120 --> 02:05:36,240
Is there anything you want to say before, before we head out of here?

2290
02:05:36,240 --> 02:05:37,240
Cause I'm a talker.

2291
02:05:37,240 --> 02:05:41,360
I could talk to for another hour, but we were at two hours and that, you know, somebody

2292
02:05:41,360 --> 02:05:43,640
probably pause this in an hour to listen to it later.

2293
02:05:43,640 --> 02:05:44,640
You know?

2294
02:05:44,640 --> 02:05:47,720
Yeah, no, I think we've, I love these organic conversations.

2295
02:05:47,720 --> 02:05:51,920
We talked before we hit record about, you know, frameworks and everything, and it's

2296
02:05:51,920 --> 02:05:53,160
just gone all over the place.

2297
02:05:53,160 --> 02:05:55,080
So no, I want to thank you so much.

2298
02:05:55,080 --> 02:06:00,760
I mean, you know, we're kindred spirits definitely, but I've always said, I've never written to

2299
02:06:00,760 --> 02:06:03,040
Joe Rogan to say thank you for his podcast.

2300
02:06:03,040 --> 02:06:07,720
You know, I've never written to, well, I got to take that back.

2301
02:06:07,720 --> 02:06:11,360
Like Sebastian Junger, when he wrote Tribe, I've spoken to him multiple times on the podcast.

2302
02:06:11,360 --> 02:06:15,720
So that's, that's a bad example, but you know, there's people, people that, you know, whose

2303
02:06:15,720 --> 02:06:18,800
books have moved me, whose work has moved me.

2304
02:06:18,800 --> 02:06:21,700
And some of course I have reached out to, but some, you know, we'll never know that

2305
02:06:21,700 --> 02:06:26,760
James Gearing, like Wayne Dyer, Wayne Dyer passed away before I could ever get him on

2306
02:06:26,760 --> 02:06:27,840
the show.

2307
02:06:27,840 --> 02:06:31,000
And his work absolutely prepared me for my divorce.

2308
02:06:31,000 --> 02:06:34,560
He's kind of like a, I always tell him he's like a white Deepak Chopra, but he's way more

2309
02:06:34,560 --> 02:06:35,560
than that.

2310
02:06:35,560 --> 02:06:40,200
He was kind of a real spiritualist that pulled in the wisdom from all the great books, all

2311
02:06:40,200 --> 02:06:46,240
the religions, all the ancient texts, and just found again that Venn diagram, that common

2312
02:06:46,240 --> 02:06:50,360
denominator, compassion and kindness and community and all the things.

2313
02:06:50,360 --> 02:06:54,680
And I never get to tell Wayne Dyer that, that impact.

2314
02:06:54,680 --> 02:06:58,080
So that was what was so beautiful, was, you know, you and I have obviously, you know,

2315
02:06:58,080 --> 02:07:03,120
talked for years now and, and now been on each other's shows.

2316
02:07:03,120 --> 02:07:10,640
But you know, when you reached out and were courageously vulnerable and said, not only

2317
02:07:10,640 --> 02:07:14,320
the impact that the book had, but then you told me about, you know, where that led you

2318
02:07:14,320 --> 02:07:15,320
and the work.

2319
02:07:15,320 --> 02:07:20,000
And I mean, there, there is no greater compliment, you know, when the mission is to make the

2320
02:07:20,000 --> 02:07:24,880
world better for you, for me, and, and, and someone says, Hey, it helped.

2321
02:07:24,880 --> 02:07:26,160
Yeah.

2322
02:07:26,160 --> 02:07:27,160
Mic drop.

2323
02:07:27,160 --> 02:07:30,040
If I sell another book, it was worth it.

2324
02:07:30,040 --> 02:07:33,440
If all the other reviews are one star, this was a cash grab.

2325
02:07:33,440 --> 02:07:35,640
I don't care because it helps.

2326
02:07:35,640 --> 02:07:41,600
So, so I want to thank you just for, you know, for telling me, for letting me know, you know,

2327
02:07:41,600 --> 02:07:46,000
that it helped because that only fuels the fire for all the next things that are going

2328
02:07:46,000 --> 02:07:50,640
to come behind this, the other TV show and whatever's after that.

2329
02:07:50,640 --> 02:07:54,960
But you know, and then sharing your story about this, because again, it's putting hope

2330
02:07:54,960 --> 02:08:01,840
back in other people, you know, if, if, if a simple story of a normal firefight, because

2331
02:08:01,840 --> 02:08:06,600
this is the thing, both of the books were written for the other 99% of the fire service

2332
02:08:06,600 --> 02:08:11,680
that weren't at ground zero that weren't at the Vegas shooting that weren't insert in

2333
02:08:11,680 --> 02:08:15,680
a national headline here.

2334
02:08:15,680 --> 02:08:19,160
This is just a death by a thousand cut story that we all go through.

2335
02:08:19,160 --> 02:08:21,520
So yeah, I want to just turn it back and say, thank you.

2336
02:08:21,520 --> 02:08:25,000
Thank you for this platform and thank you for reaching out.

2337
02:08:25,000 --> 02:08:32,560
And I applaud your, your humility and your vulnerability to look in that mirror and stay

2338
02:08:32,560 --> 02:08:35,240
looking in that mirror and go, I need to change.

2339
02:08:35,240 --> 02:08:36,960
We all need to change, you know?

2340
02:08:36,960 --> 02:08:38,480
So I think, I think it's amazing.

2341
02:08:38,480 --> 02:08:39,480
So thank you.

2342
02:08:39,480 --> 02:08:40,480
Yeah, no, thanks.

2343
02:08:40,480 --> 02:08:41,840
I appreciate you saying all that.

2344
02:08:41,840 --> 02:08:45,320
It's one of those things where it's like, are you going to do the hard work or not?

2345
02:08:45,320 --> 02:08:50,160
You know, and I think your book was just the tool that God used to put in front of me to

2346
02:08:50,160 --> 02:08:52,240
say, Hey, it's time.

2347
02:08:52,240 --> 02:08:53,240
What are we going to do?

2348
02:08:53,240 --> 02:08:58,520
And, you know, it's decision time and I'll be honest, it hasn't all been easy, but it's

2349
02:08:58,520 --> 02:08:59,520
been so rewarding.

2350
02:08:59,520 --> 02:09:02,240
And, you know, I'm on this journey now.

2351
02:09:02,240 --> 02:09:06,680
And every second, every take, every, every take, I step, every step I take is, you know,

2352
02:09:06,680 --> 02:09:10,600
it's the whole, you know, two steps forward, one step back, but it's still progress.

2353
02:09:10,600 --> 02:09:14,800
That's one of my favorite sayings is like, you know, I still took a step and I think

2354
02:09:14,800 --> 02:09:18,320
your book really put a mirror in front of me to take those steps in the right direction.

2355
02:09:18,320 --> 02:09:22,040
And honestly, I'm really kind of hoping that it does this for the listeners.

2356
02:09:22,040 --> 02:09:24,120
You know, I hope people go grab this book.

2357
02:09:24,120 --> 02:09:29,720
Yeah, it's great to get ratings and for people to listen and, you know, like a podcast, but

2358
02:09:29,720 --> 02:09:33,580
I'll be honest, selfishly, I hope people listen to this podcast.

2359
02:09:33,580 --> 02:09:39,120
And the first thing they do is go by, you know, kinder and that they read kinder and

2360
02:09:39,120 --> 02:09:40,560
that they read one more light.

2361
02:09:40,560 --> 02:09:42,960
Like that is selfishly what I hope from this podcast.

2362
02:09:42,960 --> 02:09:45,080
I don't, I don't want ratings.

2363
02:09:45,080 --> 02:09:50,280
I hope they heard two, two men that are, you know, willing to impact the fire service through

2364
02:09:50,280 --> 02:09:54,200
their own lives and that are really just out for hope.

2365
02:09:54,200 --> 02:09:57,480
And as far as I'm concerned, ratings are stupid.

2366
02:09:57,480 --> 02:09:58,480
Go buy the book.

2367
02:09:58,480 --> 02:10:02,840
Like what better, what better way of support can you show somebody like, Hey, I believe

2368
02:10:02,840 --> 02:10:03,840
in your vision.

2369
02:10:03,840 --> 02:10:07,840
I believe in your mission than just go buy the book, you know, and it truly, honestly,

2370
02:10:07,840 --> 02:10:10,960
if you're listening right now and you're like, I cannot afford this book, you shoot me a

2371
02:10:10,960 --> 02:10:11,960
message.

2372
02:10:11,960 --> 02:10:12,960
I'll make sure you get the book.

2373
02:10:12,960 --> 02:10:16,600
You know, there are people listening and I know they generally just can't afford it.

2374
02:10:16,600 --> 02:10:19,600
So if you're listening, you're like, Josh, I cannot afford this book.

2375
02:10:19,600 --> 02:10:22,560
And you don't live in Istanbul because I honestly don't know how much shipping is to get it

2376
02:10:22,560 --> 02:10:23,560
to Istanbul.

2377
02:10:23,560 --> 02:10:28,880
Um, might take, yeah, it might be a challenge, but no, if you're, if you're reasonably, uh,

2378
02:10:28,880 --> 02:10:32,160
in a shipping distance, you know, I will do whatever I can do to make sure you get a copy

2379
02:10:32,160 --> 02:10:33,160
of this book.

2380
02:10:33,160 --> 02:10:37,760
You know, I've always said, you know, if you believe in something, support the mission.

2381
02:10:37,760 --> 02:10:43,320
And um, you know, this is one of those things where if you're listening, seriously, for

2382
02:10:43,320 --> 02:10:46,360
some reason you cannot get this, please let me know.

2383
02:10:46,360 --> 02:10:48,280
I will make, I will put a copy in your hands.

2384
02:10:48,280 --> 02:10:50,240
I gave, as soon as this came out, I read it.

2385
02:10:50,240 --> 02:10:54,800
I think I gave away five copies on social media and they went, they went pretty fast.

2386
02:10:54,800 --> 02:10:57,600
I think within an hour I had them in the mail to people.

2387
02:10:57,600 --> 02:11:03,040
Um, please read kinder, read one more light, follow James gearing.

2388
02:11:03,040 --> 02:11:06,920
Um, one thing I do want to say is they just shut down his Instagram account.

2389
02:11:06,920 --> 02:11:10,240
So if you want to tell people where you can be found now, that would be great.

2390
02:11:10,240 --> 02:11:11,240
Yeah.

2391
02:11:11,240 --> 02:11:14,560
For some reason, Instagram is super offended by positivity and kindness.

2392
02:11:14,560 --> 02:11:17,920
So I have a off record.

2393
02:11:17,920 --> 02:11:22,260
I'm not, I mean, it's on record, but I have someone at the moment who was actually looking

2394
02:11:22,260 --> 02:11:24,560
into it that I was used to through a friend.

2395
02:11:24,560 --> 02:11:29,560
So it's possible that it might come back, but, um, yeah, it was Instagram was, uh, behind

2396
02:11:29,560 --> 02:11:30,680
the shield nine one one.

2397
02:11:30,680 --> 02:11:35,880
So the new one is just behind the shield nine one one point 2.0.2.0.

2398
02:11:35,880 --> 02:11:38,320
So if you put in behind the shield nine one, it will come up straight away.

2399
02:11:38,320 --> 02:11:40,300
You'll see the logo and there we are.

2400
02:11:40,300 --> 02:11:44,160
The upside is when you get a count shut down, you start from scratch, all the trolls and

2401
02:11:44,160 --> 02:11:45,640
bots are gone.

2402
02:11:45,640 --> 02:11:49,440
So, uh, you know, it's not all bad, but, uh, yeah, it would be nice to get it back.

2403
02:11:49,440 --> 02:11:54,560
It was connected to so many people and someone actually messaged me on the new one and said

2404
02:11:54,560 --> 02:11:59,720
that they attended a police officer's funeral who had taken her own life because they saw

2405
02:11:59,720 --> 02:12:02,600
it, you know, my post on, on Instagram.

2406
02:12:02,600 --> 02:12:07,120
They were entered, you know, they were able to, to realize it had happened and be there,

2407
02:12:07,120 --> 02:12:09,240
you know, to show their, their respect.

2408
02:12:09,240 --> 02:12:12,040
I've had people ask for help, you know, numerous departments.

2409
02:12:12,040 --> 02:12:14,420
Now people messaging me about the 24 72.

2410
02:12:14,420 --> 02:12:16,600
So that's, that's what was a shame.

2411
02:12:16,600 --> 02:12:20,860
Um, but you know, I always tell people as well, I don't pay Instagram anything.

2412
02:12:20,860 --> 02:12:25,280
So I can only cry on my cereal so much before I just have to go, all right, well, let's

2413
02:12:25,280 --> 02:12:26,920
just start again.

2414
02:12:26,920 --> 02:12:27,920
If it comes back, awesome.

2415
02:12:27,920 --> 02:12:30,600
It'd be an awesome post to be like, ah, I'm back bitches.

2416
02:12:30,600 --> 02:12:34,520
If it doesn't, then so be it.

2417
02:12:34,520 --> 02:12:38,000
You know, we'll just build from the ground up again, but that was never the thing.

2418
02:12:38,000 --> 02:12:41,840
And uh, but it, you know, it's, it's great to have that kind of exposure because once

2419
02:12:41,840 --> 02:12:45,800
in a while the story would take off and uh, you know, you, you knew it kind of moved a

2420
02:12:45,800 --> 02:12:46,800
lot of people.

2421
02:12:46,800 --> 02:12:51,400
So, but yeah, I appreciate, I appreciate you kind of highlighting that as of now when recording

2422
02:12:51,400 --> 02:12:56,360
on the 22nd of November, the new account is the only one that's out there.

2423
02:12:56,360 --> 02:12:57,360
Okay.

2424
02:12:57,360 --> 02:12:58,360
Yeah.

2425
02:12:58,360 --> 02:12:59,360
So that's how you can find James.

2426
02:12:59,360 --> 02:13:00,360
Listen, listen to the podcast.

2427
02:13:00,360 --> 02:13:03,320
There's going to be somebody on there you can relate to, but you can't just relate to

2428
02:13:03,320 --> 02:13:04,320
James.

2429
02:13:04,320 --> 02:13:05,840
He's interviewed over a thousand people.

2430
02:13:05,840 --> 02:13:09,120
If there's some kind of help you're looking for in the fire service, I guarantee that

2431
02:13:09,120 --> 02:13:11,120
you can find it on the podcast.

2432
02:13:11,120 --> 02:13:14,400
If you're looking for vulnerable men and women, and there's none in your life, none in your

2433
02:13:14,400 --> 02:13:20,880
world behind the shield podcast, I'm listening to these things and the, the depths of conversation

2434
02:13:20,880 --> 02:13:25,640
that he's having and where these people are able to go in their life and share these stories.

2435
02:13:25,640 --> 02:13:28,160
Um, you know, it's encouraging to say the least.

2436
02:13:28,160 --> 02:13:31,560
Uh, you got James gearing.com, you can find them there.

2437
02:13:31,560 --> 02:13:33,640
You got the behind the shield podcast.

2438
02:13:33,640 --> 02:13:35,000
Everybody's on Facebook.

2439
02:13:35,000 --> 02:13:36,000
Everybody's on Instagram.

2440
02:13:36,000 --> 02:13:40,560
Um, James, honestly, it was an honor to have you on the show.

2441
02:13:40,560 --> 02:13:42,160
Won't be the last time.

2442
02:13:42,160 --> 02:13:47,120
Um, there's plenty of stuff to talk about, plenty to work to do, plenty to changes, you

2443
02:13:47,120 --> 02:13:48,600
know, to happen in the fire service.

2444
02:13:48,600 --> 02:13:50,640
And I don't see you stopping anytime soon.

2445
02:13:50,640 --> 02:13:52,040
Uh, one more thing.

2446
02:13:52,040 --> 02:13:56,800
If you had to leave the listener with one thing like James gearing, signing off, I'm

2447
02:13:56,800 --> 02:13:57,800
out, I'm done.

2448
02:13:57,800 --> 02:13:59,040
You may never hear from me again.

2449
02:13:59,040 --> 02:14:01,040
What would it, what would you say?

2450
02:14:01,040 --> 02:14:04,240
I think let's just circle back to your favorite four letter word.

2451
02:14:04,240 --> 02:14:09,160
Just know that you can get to the place that you want to get to, you know, and the tools

2452
02:14:09,160 --> 02:14:10,160
are out there.

2453
02:14:10,160 --> 02:14:14,260
Maybe you just haven't discovered it the same way as, you know, you've always been kind

2454
02:14:14,260 --> 02:14:19,840
of a tunnel visioned about, um, you know, the, the, our amazing schedule, you know,

2455
02:14:19,840 --> 02:14:29,160
I think we're so siloed as a profession and then we're so exhausted as an actual responder

2456
02:14:29,160 --> 02:14:34,920
that our capacity to take that, you know, proverbial step back to widen the blinkers

2457
02:14:34,920 --> 02:14:35,920
is just diminished.

2458
02:14:35,920 --> 02:14:41,120
Like the ability to critically think we saw again during COVID when people are stressed,

2459
02:14:41,120 --> 02:14:44,360
that ability goes during the election, that ability goes.

2460
02:14:44,360 --> 02:14:49,640
So understanding that you can, you can be there for your family more.

2461
02:14:49,640 --> 02:14:55,400
You can overcome the weight gain, the hormonal disruption, the depression, the anxiety, the

2462
02:14:55,400 --> 02:15:00,040
addiction, whatever it is, whatever your things are to kind of repair that relationship with

2463
02:15:00,040 --> 02:15:01,560
your children.

2464
02:15:01,560 --> 02:15:07,480
You can, and there's so many people that have solutions to problems and there's so many

2465
02:15:07,480 --> 02:15:12,480
people that want to help you get there, but you have to believe you can first.

2466
02:15:12,480 --> 02:15:13,480
Yeah, man.

2467
02:15:13,480 --> 02:15:14,480
I love it.

2468
02:15:14,480 --> 02:15:15,480
Thank you so much, James.

2469
02:15:15,480 --> 02:15:16,480
I really appreciate it.

2470
02:15:16,480 --> 02:15:18,360
Like I said, it won't be the last time.

2471
02:15:18,360 --> 02:15:19,560
So it's no secret guys.

2472
02:15:19,560 --> 02:15:22,040
I have not figured out how to sign off from these things yet.

2473
02:15:22,040 --> 02:15:24,940
I say something different every single time.

2474
02:15:24,940 --> 02:15:28,040
So until next time, listen, I really appreciate you guys listening.

2475
02:15:28,040 --> 02:15:29,680
I appreciate all the support.

2476
02:15:29,680 --> 02:15:33,400
Um, if you like this episode with James, do me a favor, share it.

2477
02:15:33,400 --> 02:15:37,520
If you're not going to share the episode, share the conversation around this episode,

2478
02:15:37,520 --> 02:15:41,120
go pick up kinder, go pick up one more light until next time guys.

2479
02:15:41,120 --> 02:15:44,560
Take it easy.