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This episode is sponsored by Transcend, a veteran owned and operated performance optimization company that I introduced recently as a sponsor on this show.

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Well, since then, I have actually been using my products and I've had incredible success.

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There was initial blood work that was extremely detailed and based on that, they offered supplementation.

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So I began taking DHEA, BPC157 for inflammation based on the fact that I've been a stump man and martial artist and a firefighter my whole life, lots of aches and pains,

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Dihexa to help cognition after multiple punches to the head and shift work and peptides.

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Four months later, they did a detailed blood work again and I was actually able to taper off two of the peptides because my body had responded so well to just one of them that it was optimized at that point.

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So I cannot speak highly enough of the immense range of supplementation that they offer, whether it's male health, female health, peptides to boost your own testosterone, which I would argue is needed by a lot of the fire service,

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or whether it's exogenous testosterone needed, especially after TBIs or advanced age.

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Now, as I mentioned before, the other side of this company is an altruistic arm called the Transcend Foundation,

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which is putting veterans and first responders through some of their protocols free of charge.

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Now Transcend are also offering you the audience 10% off their protocols and you can find that on JamesGearing.com under the products tab.

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And if you want to hear more about Transcend and their story, listen to episode 808 with the founder Ernie Colling or go to TranscendCompany.com.

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Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast. As always, my name is James Gearing and this week it is my absolute honor to welcome on the show veteran firefighter and the man behind the Phoenix Group of the Brotherhood, Jason Blasi.

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Now in this conversation, we discuss a host of topics from his journey into the fire service, some notable career calls, his extremely powerful addiction story,

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discovering that the missing piece of his healing journey was community and so much more.

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Now before we get to this incredible conversation, as I say every week, please just take a moment.

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Go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback and leave a rating.

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Every single five star rating truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making it easier for others to find.

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And this is a free library of over 1000 episodes now.

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So all I ask in return is that you help share these incredible men and women stories so I can get them to every single person on planet Earth who needs to hear them.

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So with that being said, I introduce to you Jason Blasi. Enjoy.

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Well, Jason, I want to start by saying two things. Firstly, thank you to Gil Velasquez for connecting us in the first place.

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And secondly, to welcome you onto the Behind the Shield podcast today.

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Well, it's an honor to be here. And yeah, my brother Gil, I mean, he's been such a great addition to my life.

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You know, it just there's no coincidence that I wind up switching firehouses last year and he is one of the members of Station 21 that I'm in now.

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And we're both, you know, working in peer capacities on the department.

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And we're able to really have a just a great connection.

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Got to give him a shout out for sure. Thanks, Gil.

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100 percent. Where is Station 21 in Miami-Dade?

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Station 21 Miami-Dade Fire Rescue is in Hallover Park, which is right on the border of Bell Harbor and Sunny Isles.

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OK, so it is nice, nice area. Very nice area. High rise, mainly high rise district.

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There's there's big single family homes there. Huge waterfront, active inlet.

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Just a great territory, beautiful territory, challenging, has a lot of different.

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It's got a lot of complexity to it. You know, old construction, high rise, new construction, high rise.

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Some of the latest, greatest and then some of the not so greatest that if if we did have something go down, it's going to be a real bad day.

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Was Sunny Isles anywhere near Surfside? I don't know why those two.

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Yeah, we're we're about two a mile and a half from Surfside.

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OK, that's what I thought. All right. Well, we'll get to that incident when we get into the conversation.

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OK, so I would love to start then at the very beginning of your timeline.

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So tell me where you were born and tell me a little bit about your family dynamic, what your parents did, how many siblings?

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OK, I was born in Atlantic City, New Jersey, and I am a twin.

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I have a twin brother. I have an older sister.

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She's six years older. I have two loving parents.

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They they got married very young.

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They had my sister at 19 and us at 25.

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My dad was working multiple jobs to make it happen, and my mother was a was a housewife in my early childhood.

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And we lived in New Jersey till I was seven.

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My dad worked on the boardwalk in Atlantic City as a fine arts and jewelry auctioneer.

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And they had a sister auction that, funny enough, was located in Sunny Isles, Florida.

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And he would summer in Atlantic City, and then he would work the winter down in Sunny Isles.

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And as he started to become a bigger player in that industry for that company, he moved us down.

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He saw the future and moved us down to Florida when I was seven years old.

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So that was in the in the middle, latter portion of the 70s.

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Do you remember that move clearly? Were you old enough to actually recall that?

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I don't remember the exact move. I remember living in the Golden Nugget Hotel.

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And then I was running medical calls in the Golden Nugget Hotel, you know, 40 years later.

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Really crazy. But I just remember I just remember a lot of love and a lot of good dinners and a lot of lights.

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You know, that was a real happening spot, Sunny Isles back in the 70s, especially in the wintertime.

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And then I remember us getting to a single family home in Hollywood and then moving to North Miami Beach.

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You know, my dad, my dad was a was a hustler.

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He he just kept growing in that industry of jewelry and fine arts and appraising fine arts and jewelry.

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He had a he had a stint selling insurance.

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I just know that he did whatever he needed to do to keep three kids clothed, homed, fed, housed, fed.

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And I didn't know that it was such a struggle for my parents.

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You know, we definitely I didn't feel it. You know, they kept us busy.

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Like I said, there was a lot of love. We were brought into a, you know, a great community in North Miami Beach.

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Growing up there in the late 70s was just awesome, really awesome.

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And my dad got got my brother and I into the sportsman's lifestyle really early.

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You know, one of my fondest memories is walking across the street to the lake.

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And and starting my bass fishing career.

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And, you know, that's since grown into offshore offshore saltwater fishing.

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But my main my main passion is is shallow water kayak fishing on the in the Everglades.

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I mean, that's I make a lot of time to do that now.

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That's a huge part of of the life that lifestyle that I live now.

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But, you know, he he coached all our baseball teams, football teams, basketball teams, boy scouts.

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You know, he was he was an involved dad.

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And my mother was a great homemaker and a really special lady.

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But my mom was an alcoholic.

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And there was a lot of love in our family, but there was also those

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those mixed messages, you know, that we needed to appear something outside the doors of our home

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and something different on the inside or not that someone was directing me to do that.

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I felt I could feel that I could feel that.

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And that definitely, you know, there's childhood trauma brought on by that,

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by those experiences that, you know, I had growing up in fear of my mother at times.

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You know, my mom didn't put her hands on you, but she didn't have to.

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All she had to do was look at you and talk to you in a certain way.

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And she could make you feel really small, very critical.

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But in the same breath, I mean, she was an awesome lady and and gave us a great life.

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You know, you love your mom. I love my mom and my dad dearly.

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But, you know, I moved on to being a teenager, you know, in that in that athletic lifestyle.

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School was important. You know, you had to get your grades.

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But being on teams and everything was what I really looked forward to.

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My dad turned me on to golf when I was about 11 years old

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and I lived across the street from a golf course in North Miami Beach.

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And I found myself, you know, wandering over the driving range there all the time.

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And I became obsessed with golf.

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I became obsessed with fishing and golf.

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Those were like the two big sports in my life in my early childhood.

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And, you know, I played golf every chance I could.

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My dad, you know, he got us memberships at different clubs.

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And it was wonderful. It was something we could do together.

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My grandparents came down and retired here in the early 80s.

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And we all had a relationship, my grandfather, my father, my brother and myself on the golf course.

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And it was just awesome.

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And just a side note, anybody that knows about golf courses, they have some of the best bass fishing, too.

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So I got to do both things at the same time.

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You'd have a rod sticking out the top of your clubs in.

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At a certain point in my golfing career, I absolutely did.

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Yeah, I had to have my own cart because I had rods and stuff in the way.

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So what you mentioned about your mother, the book that I just wrote,

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there's an element of multi-generational trauma in there.

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And I think it was a very deliberate one because I wanted to show people

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that there's a domino effect of pain and suffering, you know, and if they don't identify it,

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you're not able to stop that domino. It just keeps falling and falling and falling.

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Were you ever able to kind of understand the family that your mother grew up in that maybe led to her alcoholism?

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Absolutely. My mother came from an alcoholic family and a rageaholic family.

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And again, she was taught those messages of looking good on the outside.

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But, you know, some of the stuff that was going on behind closed doors was not so sumptuous and beautiful, I'm sure.

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I've only come to understand that in the last few years now.

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And I haven't we haven't had conversations about it.

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I've just when I start to piece together my childhood and I had a lot of interactions with my mother's parents and they were great people.

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You know, they they they showed us a lot of culture and a lot of a lot of love and a lot of a lot of good times.

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You know, I traveled back and forth to New Jersey a lot in my all throughout my early life into my 20s.

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And I spent a lot of time with them until they passed.

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But now I can make sense of it, you know, and I totally subscribe to what you're saying.

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And one of the you know, about the multi-generational trauma and man, the shame, you know, the shame messages that were sent in my home that I don't believe it was with a malicious intent.

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But I now that I've come to, you know, understand that very basic definition of shame that I'm wrong, you know, guilt, my behavior is wrong, shame.

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I'm wrong. Like fundamentally, I'm wrong.

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I think that as a, you know, as a young adult adolescent, getting those critical messages from from my mother who was struggling with her alcoholism,

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I felt there was something that I needed to change about me in order to make my mom.

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OK, so I internalized all of that.

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And it was I'm wrong and I'm just now starting to heal, you know, really heal from that.

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And those messages are they're so strong.

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It's it's it's incredible.

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So I yes, you know, when I hear you talk about multi-generational trauma, you know, just I could feel the temperature rise in my body.

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I could feel my my anxiety ramp up as I looked out the window and saw my mother's car coming around the driveway.

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And I thought, oh, my God, the dishwasher is not empty.

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You know, there's dishes in the sink.

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My room's not correct. Clean properly.

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I'm going to hear it. You know, and and I became that hyper vigilant guy that like wanted to have everything.

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Packaged up nice and neat where I wouldn't hear anything because I didn't have a voice that could respond.

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To take the heat off of me or, you know, or to have any kind of any kind of meaningful dialogue,

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you know, between a child and a parent about what's really going on here was just all, you know, you need to do this.

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And when you do this, then things are going to be OK.

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I don't know. I'm still trying to make sense of it, you know, today.

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But those are my initial thoughts when I think about that.

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And, you know, it almost brings me like it does like get me a little bit emotional because.

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It doesn't have to be that way.

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But it is. You know, and only by God's grace and mercy did I start to recognize my alcoholism,

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hopefully at an age where I didn't traumatize my daughter too much.

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You know, but I can at least now have the conversations.

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And I do have a relationship with my mother today, but we don't get completely into it all.

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You know, I've made my amends and she's made some basic amends with me.

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But it's amazing when you don't have that connection, when you can't really have that voice as a child.

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I'm only speaking from my own experience.

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It definitely affects your relationship with your parent.

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You know, I my wife is a wonderful lady and she has such an open relationship with her parents.

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And they're super close.

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And I see that I have more of a superficial relationship.

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I'm craving a deeper one with my with my parents at times.

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But the roots that we have set from that, those interactions as a kid and not everybody healing together, it's challenging.

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But I'm grateful to at least have the awareness of what what was going on there, you know, that I'm I am not wrong.

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There's not something wrong with me.

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That message affected that message has been in my in my mind my whole life.

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It's still there. I just I have a different way of of entertaining and listening to it.

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I can I can challenge it with with different thoughts.

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When I hear people talking about it, I mean, I've seen more obvious example when the parent or both parents have left, it's an adoption, it's a foster, whatever it is,

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or left with aunties or grandparents.

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But even in people, you know, in alcoholism, in opiates, the child is still left thinking, why am I not good enough for you to not pick up the bottle?

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Why am I not good enough for you to not pick up the hypodermic?

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And this is the same kind of thing that that sense of abandonment, I think, is in the addiction conversation, too.

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That's the word. That's the word that I didn't use.

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You know, if I don't have this right, if my room isn't clean enough, if I don't present properly, then you're going to leave me.

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I guess that's the feeling. I never said that out of my mouth.

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I don't even know if I really ran that sentence through my consciousness.

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I think that's a subconscious reaction, you know, that I'm just now starting to understand as I hear you say that I can totally relate.

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OK, that's what the real fear was, is like it's kind of like if you're in a tribe, you know, in the indigenous area,

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if you're not pulling your weight, you know, you're going to be excommunicated.

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You're not going to eat, you know, and you're going to die.

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And I think that that's that's, you know, that's just the essence of a human being.

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And as a kid, like thinking, and if I'm not if I'm not satisfying the expectations of my parent,

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they're they're not going to they're not going to food, clothes and shelter me.

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You know, I didn't again, you know, I'm just now starting to understand this stuff.

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Incredible. But in spite of all that, still had an amazing upbringing.

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I mean, South Florida in the late 70s and early 80s is just an incredible, safe, beautiful place to grow up.

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You know, I became a waterman, you know, in my early and middle teenage years surfer.

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I started to bring my fishing out into the saltwater.

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You know, I became a lifeguard in my late teens and early 20s.

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You know, I finished high school. I was on.

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I lettered in golf in high school and I had a lot of, you know, a lot of, you know, surfer friends in high school, golfing friends, not many scholastic friends.

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I was, you know, I got decent grades.

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But, you know, I the conversations of what college were you going to go to and stuff that was not really on my radar.

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I just did the obligatory taking of the standardized tests.

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And, you know, I'm going to go to college because that's the thing you have to do. But I had no real.

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Vision for myself beyond enjoying my life, you know, and my parents.

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Now I start to understand more like, you know, my mom was deep into her alcoholism, you know, in my middle teens.

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And she got sober just when I was graduating high school.

198
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But now she's busy in her own recovery at that time.

199
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So we just didn't have a lot of direction, you know, in that in that phase of our life.

200
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But, you know, they gave us a great work ethic.

201
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You know, you had to hold a job in your in your late teens in my home, which I'm I'm grateful for that.

202
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And so I knew employment was important. I knew that I wanted to go on and get a little more education.

203
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I tried to do it and play golf at the same time.

204
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So I moved around. I tried to get into FSU and play golf there.

205
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It didn't work out. I transferred down to Brevard.

206
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Then I finished up at Miami Dade and I looked at, you know, my grade point average at that point in my I was about to finish my associates.

207
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And it wasn't high enough for me to transfer anywhere.

208
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It's pretty amazing that, you know, I wound up just turning it up a notch and I got straight A's the last two semesters and I was able to transfer into Barry University.

209
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And that's when I, you know, I started my fitness career because I I had become a triathlete from being on the on the beach patrol.

210
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I was a professional lifeguard for Dade County.

211
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Funny enough, at all over when I was 19, 19 through 22 years old and I started to become a pretty competitive triathlete.

212
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And I'm like, man, I love exercise. So I went and I got a degree in exercise physiology.

213
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And, you know, I got straight A's all the way through.

214
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I graduated cum laude and I went right into a master's program of physical therapy that after a year of being in it, it was.

215
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It lost its credentials from the.

216
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American Physical Therapy Association, and I was left with a choice.

217
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Am I going to go to Nova Southeastern or to a California institution?

218
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And I started talking about the financial aid possibilities and.

219
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It looks so expensive, and this is where the relationship with my parents and stuff came in, where.

220
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I didn't really feel safe, like bouncing everything off of them, and they were very busy in their lives.

221
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And I just formulated my own opinion like this is too much money.

222
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And maybe it was a proper instinct, I don't know, but.

223
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You know, I look at it now and I just think I have a very fear based way of looking at things.

224
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And it needed to be challenged and it would have been great if.

225
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You know, I had some adults in my life that would have been able to help me, you know, but but they did.

226
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And I held on in the beginning, that was like a resentment against my parents.

227
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But now I understand, like, you know, it is what it is.

228
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They just we just didn't have that relationship.

229
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I didn't know what I didn't know, but I chose not to go on.

230
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And I went into the I went into the fitness field, but, you know, prior to prior to going into university,

231
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when I was in my last years of working on the beach patrol was when I was first introduced to marijuana and opiates.

232
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You know, I had training partners in my triathlon training.

233
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Group that were using pain pills all the time, and it was like a training enhancer for them and I and they turned me on to it.

234
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And and I loved it immediately, you know, but I couldn't afford to to stay on them.

235
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And, you know, it kind of just went by the wayside.

236
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But my mind never forgot that feeling, you know, because they will definitely revisit my life later on.

237
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You know, I'd always I'd always equate like bringing my my experience to the next level with adding opiates and marijuana and and then alcohol and cocaine into the equation,

238
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you know, as my life would advance. And that's, you know, something that, you know,

239
00:25:02,980 --> 00:25:08,180
just played itself out until I was forty seven years old and finally got clean and sober.

240
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But, you know, that's where the seeds were really planted, you know, was in my in my late teens and early 20s.

241
00:25:16,980 --> 00:25:20,420
You know, experiencing that.

242
00:25:20,420 --> 00:25:27,020
So I went on to have a, you know, a budding career in fitness right at the time that spinning was coming out,

243
00:25:27,020 --> 00:25:30,380
which was an indoor cycling group exercise program.

244
00:25:30,380 --> 00:25:43,660
And I wound up hooking up with a guy in South Broward and he was a phenomenal instructor and he strapped a heart rate monitor on me.

245
00:25:43,660 --> 00:25:49,740
And he brought all the theory that I had learned in the classroom in my undergraduate.

246
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He brought it all to life. And I just was on fire and I was on fire for training.

247
00:25:55,340 --> 00:25:59,540
And he brought out the real elite athlete in me.

248
00:25:59,540 --> 00:26:04,580
And, you know, I had this triathlon background, but I would swim till I was tired.

249
00:26:04,580 --> 00:26:08,420
I would run till I was tired. I would bike till I was tired.

250
00:26:08,420 --> 00:26:19,300
I didn't understand, you know, different thresholds that come with anaerobic metabolism and aerobic metabolism and being able to manipulate that.

251
00:26:19,300 --> 00:26:29,580
And this guy showed me those things and just opened my world up and and he showed me a great method of personal training people.

252
00:26:29,580 --> 00:26:33,420
And he showed me how to command a room full of people. And it was great.

253
00:26:33,420 --> 00:26:44,260
It was a great learning experience. But that community that I was in, especially my relationship with that gentleman, was covered in alcohol,

254
00:26:44,260 --> 00:26:56,020
marijuana, opiates, cocaine. And it was a very boundaryless relationship.

255
00:26:56,020 --> 00:27:05,220
You know, I can see now as I've really looked at my life through a, you know, a different awareness, you know,

256
00:27:05,220 --> 00:27:12,260
in recovery of the real true, true realities of the relationships that I had with some people.

257
00:27:12,260 --> 00:27:16,940
And, you know, this guy was giving me a lot of things, but he was asking a lot of me, too.

258
00:27:16,940 --> 00:27:26,940
And I did not know how to say no. I was working 15 hour days, five days a week and making myself available all weekend if I had to.

259
00:27:26,940 --> 00:27:29,860
And I had to, because if I didn't, I was going to hear about it.

260
00:27:29,860 --> 00:27:37,020
I was in fear of scheduling maneuvers that would go on that would hit my pocket, you know,

261
00:27:37,020 --> 00:27:42,700
and out of fear of, again, the abandonment, I guess, you know, those same issues.

262
00:27:42,700 --> 00:27:48,620
Like if I really voiced my opinion and enforce my boundaries, then the job's going to end and I really love it.

263
00:27:48,620 --> 00:27:58,060
And I just did things that, you know, I accepted things that weren't, you know, in my best interest.

264
00:27:58,060 --> 00:28:03,820
You know, I made what does that remind you of? My profession does that remind you of my mother?

265
00:28:03,820 --> 00:28:09,780
But also what profession does that remind you of? A group of people who's working to conditions that constantly got worse and worse,

266
00:28:09,780 --> 00:28:11,500
but they're too afraid to stand up against it.

267
00:28:11,500 --> 00:28:15,340
Sure. The culture that we're in right now, there's higher service.

268
00:28:15,340 --> 00:28:19,260
The most courageous men and women, arguably in a community or some of them.

269
00:28:19,260 --> 00:28:24,220
But that underlying fear creates the it will never happen here.

270
00:28:24,220 --> 00:28:26,460
They'll never go for it. You know, yeah.

271
00:28:26,460 --> 00:28:31,020
But that's what we did in my day. All these frickin what I call rhetoric of the coward.

272
00:28:31,020 --> 00:28:35,900
All these bullshit excuses to standing up and saying enough is enough.

273
00:28:35,900 --> 00:28:39,660
You know, I know Miami Davis is a well sought after department.

274
00:28:39,660 --> 00:28:46,660
There are little areas that aren't struggling as much at the moment, but the recruitment crisis is crippling a lot of our men and women.

275
00:28:46,660 --> 00:28:53,780
So it's funny that that same fear of losing a job air quotes, you know, as you said, aligns to your mother.

276
00:28:53,780 --> 00:28:56,460
But it's literally what we see in the fire service. I can't.

277
00:28:56,460 --> 00:29:02,940
Oh, well, as my story is here, as my story goes on, it continues.

278
00:29:02,940 --> 00:29:06,220
You know, that that behavior continues that same feeling.

279
00:29:06,220 --> 00:29:15,620
But so working with that that guy, we started to have a lot of firefighters.

280
00:29:15,620 --> 00:29:20,740
Miami Dade firefighters were coming into our facility and I'm interacting with them

281
00:29:20,740 --> 00:29:25,980
and I'm seeing their lifestyle that they're leading and they're telling me, man, you would be perfect,

282
00:29:25,980 --> 00:29:30,660
you know, for this, you really should consider, you know, coming onto the job.

283
00:29:30,660 --> 00:29:35,620
And, you know, I.

284
00:29:35,620 --> 00:29:39,340
Molded over in my mind and.

285
00:29:39,340 --> 00:29:42,620
As God would have it, you know, that's the way I see it.

286
00:29:42,620 --> 00:29:44,700
I don't believe there's any coincidences.

287
00:29:44,700 --> 00:29:52,340
I caught a really bad injury in a mountain bike race and I had to use my insurance from my job.

288
00:29:52,340 --> 00:30:00,620
And I found it extremely insufficient for what my medical needs were.

289
00:30:00,620 --> 00:30:09,740
And I just started looking at, you know, the lifestyle I was leading and the lifestyle these people were leading.

290
00:30:09,740 --> 00:30:14,340
And I just started to draw the conclusions like, yeah, you know, I.

291
00:30:14,340 --> 00:30:22,220
I could definitely see myself, you know, as as a fireman and everything that that job brings to it.

292
00:30:22,220 --> 00:30:27,380
That I was understanding through them, you know, the time.

293
00:30:27,380 --> 00:30:32,260
You know, the 24 hour shift schedule, because I was going to the station and hanging out with them and,

294
00:30:32,260 --> 00:30:37,820
you know, and I was hanging out with them off duty and I was watching the station life and.

295
00:30:37,820 --> 00:30:42,380
You know, I was like, I could totally see myself in that role, you know, and I love helping people.

296
00:30:42,380 --> 00:30:45,500
You know, that's when I look at it, I was already a lifeguard.

297
00:30:45,500 --> 00:30:48,620
I became, you know, a fitness professional.

298
00:30:48,620 --> 00:30:53,500
My whole everything about me was about helping people and enhancing their life.

299
00:30:53,500 --> 00:30:57,580
I'm like, this is just the natural progression for me to go to the next level.

300
00:30:57,580 --> 00:31:02,020
And when I caught this injury and I started to see like, man, I can't train anybody.

301
00:31:02,020 --> 00:31:04,620
I'm making no money. My insurance sucks.

302
00:31:04,620 --> 00:31:09,580
You know, my relationship with my boss is totally unhealthy.

303
00:31:09,580 --> 00:31:12,260
Yeah, there's there's no coincidence that this is happening.

304
00:31:12,260 --> 00:31:19,660
So, you know, I signed up and, you know, in my first try, I was picked up.

305
00:31:19,660 --> 00:31:23,940
What year was this? This was 1998.

306
00:31:23,940 --> 00:31:30,700
So talk to me about the level of competition, because I think it's important to contrast with how it is at the moment.

307
00:31:30,700 --> 00:31:33,260
What were the numbers that you were competing against for?

308
00:31:33,260 --> 00:31:40,460
I heard I was competing with up to 10,000 other applicants at that time.

309
00:31:40,460 --> 00:31:48,260
I didn't see that because I just showed up at the armory at Miami Dade College and I filled out my application.

310
00:31:48,260 --> 00:31:56,140
You know, and and and and I was so like I knew it was a big deal, but.

311
00:31:56,140 --> 00:32:01,540
I really see that more in the rearview mirror, but I remember driving to it to it that day,

312
00:32:01,540 --> 00:32:05,380
and it was just another appointment that I was keeping for that day.

313
00:32:05,380 --> 00:32:16,220
You know, I really I couldn't see how the hand of God was all over me walking me into that armory and and filling out that application.

314
00:32:16,220 --> 00:32:21,220
You know, and he had such great things in mind for me that I couldn't see for myself.

315
00:32:21,220 --> 00:32:28,940
And, you know, the next thing I know, it's like six months later, I get a phone call and I'm at the gym of all places.

316
00:32:28,940 --> 00:32:32,300
And hey, it's so and so from Miami Dade Fire Rescue.

317
00:32:32,300 --> 00:32:35,620
Are you interested in the job? And I was like.

318
00:32:35,620 --> 00:32:40,620
As I went around the corner, I was like, yes, I'm absolutely interested in, you know,

319
00:32:40,620 --> 00:32:45,500
and the next thing you know, I was, you know, at the Mahi Shrine.

320
00:32:45,500 --> 00:32:53,660
Auditorium taking a. Taking a civil service exam, you know, and a couple of months later, I get a call.

321
00:32:53,660 --> 00:32:58,580
Hey, would you go? You know, you got to start getting ready for a physical ability test.

322
00:32:58,580 --> 00:33:04,660
And then I started going to the stations and having personnel there that were that I was friendly with.

323
00:33:04,660 --> 00:33:08,620
They were taking me through what?

324
00:33:08,620 --> 00:33:15,620
What the physical ability test was, you know, and I practiced my ass off and I went and smoked that thing.

325
00:33:15,620 --> 00:33:25,460
And then the next thing I went to an oral interview and I remember sitting there in Carol City High School looking around.

326
00:33:25,460 --> 00:33:32,340
You know, I sat on the bleachers and I looked around and I was like, man, I am definitely a candidate for this job.

327
00:33:32,340 --> 00:33:35,940
You know, like I. This this is going to happen.

328
00:33:35,940 --> 00:33:39,980
I could feel it in my bones, you know, and I went in there and I felt like I did well on the interview.

329
00:33:39,980 --> 00:33:44,100
And and then they compiled all that and I had to go down to headquarters.

330
00:33:44,100 --> 00:33:50,700
And the next thing you know, I was I was asked, you know, do you want to start recruit school on such and such a date?

331
00:33:50,700 --> 00:33:58,780
You know, March 6th, 1999. And, you know, here I am 25 years later.

332
00:33:58,780 --> 00:34:04,260
You know, March 6th of 2025, you know, will be 25 years.

333
00:34:04,260 --> 00:34:08,620
And it's been one hell of a career, you know, but it started.

334
00:34:08,620 --> 00:34:15,980
You know, it just started with that intuition of, you know, like, yeah, this is this is the next thing for me.

335
00:34:15,980 --> 00:34:22,060
You know, how did your fitness factor into your success in the academy and ultimately orientation?

336
00:34:22,060 --> 00:34:25,860
Yeah, that's so funny that you ask me that.

337
00:34:25,860 --> 00:34:30,460
I loved P.T. I loved it.

338
00:34:30,460 --> 00:34:37,500
I absolutely loved it. And we had to qualify every Friday with a mile and a half.

339
00:34:37,500 --> 00:34:40,860
And you had to do it in 12 minutes or less.

340
00:34:40,860 --> 00:34:45,580
And I loved running that thing and I love lapping people.

341
00:34:45,580 --> 00:34:48,700
You know, and.

342
00:34:48,700 --> 00:34:55,940
But I also found out, you know, you started to see the contradictions immediately of,

343
00:34:55,940 --> 00:35:01,500
you know, what they say the qualifications are and what the real truth is.

344
00:35:01,500 --> 00:35:08,100
You know, there were not not everybody was held to that 12 minute standard.

345
00:35:08,100 --> 00:35:16,500
You know, there were a certain amount of demerits that if you got your can, you know.

346
00:35:16,500 --> 00:35:23,180
And we were told that you had to perform at a certain way physically or you were canned.

347
00:35:23,180 --> 00:35:32,060
And, you know, that. That didn't happen, you know, but that I really love P.T.

348
00:35:32,060 --> 00:35:38,860
I loved I loved that part and it it made my ability to go through those grueling days,

349
00:35:38,860 --> 00:35:45,260
all those drill days, just the, you know, the mental toughness that I had from training

350
00:35:45,260 --> 00:35:52,060
in those high anaerobic threshold levels for hours, you know,

351
00:35:52,060 --> 00:35:56,260
you know, the elite races that we used to do mountain biking and, you know,

352
00:35:56,260 --> 00:36:00,220
when the adventure racing series first came out with high tech, you know,

353
00:36:00,220 --> 00:36:06,460
before all this Spartan phenomenon, everything, you know, doing four hour races,

354
00:36:06,460 --> 00:36:13,300
it it it made the Academy life a lot more tolerable.

355
00:36:13,300 --> 00:36:16,700
We're staying on that for a second, then.

356
00:36:16,700 --> 00:36:23,780
What is your philosophy on the absence of mandatory fitness testing every year?

357
00:36:23,780 --> 00:36:28,380
And the reason why I'm asking you and this is so important is I was a lifeguard to open

358
00:36:28,380 --> 00:36:33,420
water, never beach, so so pools and, you know, water parks and then lakes.

359
00:36:33,420 --> 00:36:38,060
But every year, every couple of years, like if you didn't pass your lifeguarding

360
00:36:38,060 --> 00:36:40,180
certs, then you're not a lifeguard anymore.

361
00:36:40,180 --> 00:36:43,180
So you are held to that job specific fitness standard.

362
00:36:43,180 --> 00:36:46,460
When I entered the fire service, I've worked for four different departments.

363
00:36:46,460 --> 00:36:49,940
None of them had a fitness standard, not anything that was punitive.

364
00:36:49,940 --> 00:36:54,580
So now I'm not saying that this should be implemented in anyone who can't hit it

365
00:36:54,580 --> 00:36:58,180
immediately as fired. You would obviously would have to have an on ramp to get people

366
00:36:58,180 --> 00:37:00,140
back to where they should be.

367
00:37:00,140 --> 00:37:06,100
But for me, the fact that one of the very few careers that exist where lives are

368
00:37:06,100 --> 00:37:11,580
truly in your hands, that we have fought fitness standards, unions are for it,

369
00:37:11,580 --> 00:37:13,260
administrations are for it.

370
00:37:13,260 --> 00:37:17,500
James Gearing thinks that's absolutely fucking disgusting personally.

371
00:37:17,500 --> 00:37:22,340
But with you having the background that you have, what is your kind of observation,

372
00:37:22,340 --> 00:37:28,140
having entered at such a high and ready state, the lack of bar when you enter

373
00:37:28,140 --> 00:37:29,140
the profession?

374
00:37:32,140 --> 00:37:36,580
That's an interesting question.

375
00:37:36,580 --> 00:37:40,740
I could see the union's point of view, you know, to protect its members.

376
00:37:40,740 --> 00:37:44,900
But just to jump in there, do you think it actually presents protecting its

377
00:37:44,900 --> 00:37:48,540
members, though, because ultimately you're encouraging ill health and

378
00:37:48,540 --> 00:37:51,020
therefore protecting the members employment?

379
00:37:51,020 --> 00:37:55,020
Yeah. But if that's held as a standard from day one, then that doesn't even come

380
00:37:55,020 --> 00:37:56,020
to the conversation.

381
00:37:56,020 --> 00:38:00,060
You see what I'm saying? All right. So we're falling short.

382
00:38:00,060 --> 00:38:04,340
When you when you state it that way, when I just look at the course of a career,

383
00:38:04,340 --> 00:38:11,300
it only going to enhance your life and your capability of being, you know,

384
00:38:11,300 --> 00:38:18,540
the best fireman that you can be, you know, if we had it, I think everybody

385
00:38:18,540 --> 00:38:20,900
would conform to it.

386
00:38:20,900 --> 00:38:30,820
But because we don't have it, we open up we open up ourselves to a whole range of

387
00:38:30,820 --> 00:38:37,020
fitness capabilities that, you know, I think that my department throws so many

388
00:38:37,020 --> 00:38:43,900
units at a at a working fire that we're not exposed for some of the deficiencies

389
00:38:43,900 --> 00:38:46,740
that we may have in that realm.

390
00:38:46,740 --> 00:38:51,500
You know, truth be told, but, you know, it's incumbent.

391
00:38:51,500 --> 00:38:55,420
It's got to come from from the individual.

392
00:38:55,420 --> 00:38:59,140
You know, you are you would think it would come from the individual.

393
00:38:59,140 --> 00:39:01,180
I get I get what you're saying.

394
00:39:01,180 --> 00:39:07,620
You know, I think it's a definitely something to be explored.

395
00:39:07,620 --> 00:39:12,460
But like everything else, we're not going to we're not going to change until

396
00:39:12,460 --> 00:39:19,020
something really bad happens and we would dig into it enough to attribute it to,

397
00:39:19,020 --> 00:39:24,620
you know, the fitness of the responding personnel was so substandard that,

398
00:39:24,620 --> 00:39:27,140
you know, this catastrophic event happened.

399
00:39:27,140 --> 00:39:29,300
And I just don't see that happening.

400
00:39:29,300 --> 00:39:34,020
Well, I mean, the tens and tens and tens of heart attacks that we have every year,

401
00:39:34,020 --> 00:39:37,780
the cardiovascular deaths that we have in the fire service, that would be one place

402
00:39:37,780 --> 00:39:41,460
to look and the strokes seem to be getting worse and worse and worse.

403
00:39:41,460 --> 00:39:44,060
There's two stats right there.

404
00:39:45,420 --> 00:39:51,580
Yeah, I mean, I it it comes natural to me to be able to draw the parallels

405
00:39:51,580 --> 00:39:59,060
between having a fitness level that enables me to do my job.

406
00:39:59,060 --> 00:40:03,580
You know, to the standards that I need to perform it, but it also enhances

407
00:40:03,580 --> 00:40:08,900
my whole life and keeps me, you know, in less of a risk of cardiovascular events,

408
00:40:08,900 --> 00:40:12,540
cerebral vascular events, you know, all of that.

409
00:40:12,540 --> 00:40:18,260
And what I've come to understand how it helps my psyche and my my spirit.

410
00:40:18,260 --> 00:40:20,540
I mean, there's just so many added benefits.

411
00:40:20,540 --> 00:40:24,820
And we've tried fitness initiatives on the job.

412
00:40:24,820 --> 00:40:28,700
But as we'll get into our conversations about

413
00:40:28,700 --> 00:40:33,820
handling mental health issues with our personnel, it's the same thing about fitness.

414
00:40:33,820 --> 00:40:37,180
They don't want to be told by another individual how they should train,

415
00:40:37,180 --> 00:40:40,420
when they should train, how they should eat.

416
00:40:40,420 --> 00:40:44,300
You know, it's it's met with a lot of opposition.

417
00:40:44,300 --> 00:40:48,500
And then when you bring the union stance into it, that they're protecting the,

418
00:40:48,500 --> 00:40:52,140
you know, the livelihoods of the members.

419
00:40:52,500 --> 00:40:55,740
You know, where where where we're at, we're stalled.

420
00:40:55,740 --> 00:40:59,340
What we what standards were you held as as an ocean lifeguard?

421
00:40:59,340 --> 00:41:03,580
What were you expected to do as far as you had to do?

422
00:41:03,580 --> 00:41:08,220
It was 300 yards to the beat to the water line, 500 in the water,

423
00:41:08,780 --> 00:41:11,300
300 back out to the finish line.

424
00:41:11,300 --> 00:41:14,300
And I think you had to do that in less than 10 minutes.

425
00:41:15,660 --> 00:41:18,100
And that was every every how many years?

426
00:41:18,860 --> 00:41:20,700
No, you had to do that every six months.

427
00:41:20,700 --> 00:41:23,980
There we go. And then if the person who was your officer

428
00:41:23,980 --> 00:41:28,020
as a lifeguard told you we're training today, was there grumbling?

429
00:41:28,020 --> 00:41:30,580
Or did you just grab your shit in the water?

430
00:41:30,580 --> 00:41:33,860
There was there was, but but guys didn't

431
00:41:35,740 --> 00:41:37,980
you know, guys didn't want to lose their job.

432
00:41:37,980 --> 00:41:41,140
But again, I don't know if it's

433
00:41:42,500 --> 00:41:45,060
I'm sure it's not unique to just Dade County,

434
00:41:45,540 --> 00:41:49,020
but there were there were members of my beach patrol

435
00:41:49,020 --> 00:41:52,060
that couldn't meet the standard either, and they were given a pass.

436
00:41:53,620 --> 00:41:54,140
Yeah, I know.

437
00:41:54,140 --> 00:41:56,820
I mean, there's a lot of places, a lot of beaches that doesn't happen.

438
00:41:56,820 --> 00:42:00,500
You know, like Southern California, Hawaii, even New Jersey, funny enough.

439
00:42:01,220 --> 00:42:03,340
There's a lot of beaches there and the standards are hell high.

440
00:42:03,340 --> 00:42:05,820
And I think this is just a good conversation.

441
00:42:05,820 --> 00:42:08,820
But two lifeguards are also firefighters is, you know,

442
00:42:08,860 --> 00:42:12,620
when I found myself in the middle, it was all they're trying to take our jobs.

443
00:42:13,060 --> 00:42:14,620
And you're just like, what the fuck?

444
00:42:14,620 --> 00:42:17,580
And especially with the exercise physiology background, which I have to.

445
00:42:17,860 --> 00:42:20,060
You're like, what are you talking about?

446
00:42:20,060 --> 00:42:22,580
This is only going to make you a better firefighter.

447
00:42:22,580 --> 00:42:24,340
It's going to improve your physical health.

448
00:42:24,340 --> 00:42:26,220
It's going to improve your mental health.

449
00:42:26,220 --> 00:42:28,500
It's going to improve your libido newsflash.

450
00:42:29,180 --> 00:42:32,220
And it's going to improve your longevity at the end of the career.

451
00:42:32,220 --> 00:42:35,580
So to sit in a union position and go, thank you for mentioning that.

452
00:42:35,940 --> 00:42:36,860
Yeah, but it's true.

453
00:42:36,860 --> 00:42:39,900
You know, I mean, look at how many people that's something that's on my radar.

454
00:42:40,380 --> 00:42:41,700
Sorry to speak over you.

455
00:42:41,700 --> 00:42:44,580
That's something that's on my radar now that I'm there.

456
00:42:44,740 --> 00:42:47,580
You know, for me, my attitude.

457
00:42:47,580 --> 00:42:52,060
I mean, I had a crazy attitude for years on the job, but my attitude

458
00:42:52,060 --> 00:42:57,580
now is, you know, I want to get out of this thing healthy and whole.

459
00:42:59,860 --> 00:43:04,020
You know, and and, you know, eating right, exercising,

460
00:43:04,020 --> 00:43:08,180
staying hydrated, sleeping properly, you know, trying to control

461
00:43:08,180 --> 00:43:12,780
some of the less controllable aspects, you know, with the sleep and whatnot.

462
00:43:15,100 --> 00:43:17,940
Because I want to live.

463
00:43:17,940 --> 00:43:21,340
You know, it's crazy to think not so many years ago,

464
00:43:21,820 --> 00:43:26,300
I had an attitude of, well, it's not if I get cancer on this job,

465
00:43:26,300 --> 00:43:29,700
it's when and what type and, you know, I'll deal with it when it comes.

466
00:43:29,700 --> 00:43:32,500
And while I have a cigar hanging out of my mouth,

467
00:43:33,180 --> 00:43:35,100
it's also a self-fulfilling prophecy.

468
00:43:35,420 --> 00:43:38,420
And you believe that whole thing all of a sudden, you know, especially

469
00:43:38,420 --> 00:43:41,340
then you're not fighting it because you believe and I thought at that time,

470
00:43:41,340 --> 00:43:44,940
like I thought at that time, you know, I had the bravado of, man,

471
00:43:44,940 --> 00:43:47,700
if I was looking down the bottom of my head, I would be like,

472
00:43:47,700 --> 00:43:51,420
if I'm looking down the barrel of a cancer diagnosis, you know, I'll deal with it.

473
00:43:51,860 --> 00:43:52,420
And.

474
00:43:54,060 --> 00:43:56,620
Bullshit, man, I don't want that to happen.

475
00:43:57,220 --> 00:44:00,020
You know, I want to live, I want to see my daughter get married.

476
00:44:00,020 --> 00:44:01,740
I want to enjoy my retirement.

477
00:44:02,260 --> 00:44:05,020
So, you know, awareness is the beginning.

478
00:44:05,020 --> 00:44:05,780
I was a fool.

479
00:44:05,780 --> 00:44:08,620
Some of the things that I said and did, but.

480
00:44:10,020 --> 00:44:14,700
So, you know, to keep going with the timelines, I get on the job,

481
00:44:14,700 --> 00:44:16,260
I get out into the field.

482
00:44:16,260 --> 00:44:21,260
I did use opiates through my recruit experience.

483
00:44:21,740 --> 00:44:28,860
You know, I was was a budding drug addict and alcoholic at that time.

484
00:44:28,860 --> 00:44:35,220
I was 29 years old, but I was super high functioning physically and, you know,

485
00:44:35,220 --> 00:44:39,500
and I loved what I was learning and I couldn't wait to get out into the field

486
00:44:39,500 --> 00:44:41,100
and put it into action.

487
00:44:41,100 --> 00:44:45,540
So I got out into the field in 2000 and.

488
00:44:46,980 --> 00:44:49,500
We immediately had 9-11.

489
00:44:50,900 --> 00:44:55,340
You know, and I went right back to my, I went right back to my job

490
00:44:55,340 --> 00:44:58,380
in the fitness industry and I was working shift.

491
00:44:58,380 --> 00:44:59,860
So I'll be on duty.

492
00:44:59,860 --> 00:45:02,860
And then right when I got off duty, I went and I opened up the gym and I,

493
00:45:02,860 --> 00:45:05,180
and I was working in the fitness industry.

494
00:45:05,180 --> 00:45:09,060
And I'll never forget 9-11, you know, and I was working in the gym.

495
00:45:09,060 --> 00:45:14,260
I'll never forget 9-11, you know, I was teaching a class we had just finished.

496
00:45:14,260 --> 00:45:16,660
You know, it was a little bit after nine o'clock or something.

497
00:45:16,660 --> 00:45:20,140
And somebody's like, you have to turn the TV on.

498
00:45:20,140 --> 00:45:22,580
You're not going to believe it, you know.

499
00:45:22,580 --> 00:45:26,780
And I turned the TV on and I couldn't believe it.

500
00:45:26,780 --> 00:45:32,420
And I'll tell you, when I saw that gaping hole, you know, in the towers,

501
00:45:32,420 --> 00:45:38,540
it immediately flashed in my mind what we were taught in rookie school

502
00:45:38,540 --> 00:45:42,980
that, you know, at a thousand degrees, you know, steel members are going to,

503
00:45:42,980 --> 00:45:44,140
are going to disfigure.

504
00:45:44,140 --> 00:45:48,060
And I'm like, these things, I looked at the size of the hole and I go,

505
00:45:48,060 --> 00:45:55,260
these things are, I go, I told my, my wife, I go, this, there's going to be a collapse.

506
00:45:55,260 --> 00:45:57,820
You know, and sure enough, it did.

507
00:45:57,820 --> 00:46:04,180
And, you know, that was very traumatic to watch that.

508
00:46:04,180 --> 00:46:08,460
You know, that was super traumatic to watch that and think about all the guys

509
00:46:08,460 --> 00:46:10,420
that died that day.

510
00:46:10,420 --> 00:46:18,380
And, you know, and I, I just, you know, went on and moved into the career

511
00:46:18,380 --> 00:46:23,060
and it drove me to try to become even better at the job, you know,

512
00:46:23,060 --> 00:46:26,540
to understand it more and to do it right.

513
00:46:26,540 --> 00:46:32,860
And, you know, I'll talk openly and honestly about the fact that, you know,

514
00:46:32,860 --> 00:46:40,220
I believe I have a feeling inside me that, that there is a God, you know,

515
00:46:40,220 --> 00:46:45,500
and, you know, he's worked such miracles in my life.

516
00:46:45,500 --> 00:46:50,540
And in my early career, he put somebody in my, you know, in my path

517
00:46:50,540 --> 00:46:57,740
that steered me to a certain battalion, you know, and it changed my whole career,

518
00:46:57,740 --> 00:46:58,300
you know.

519
00:46:58,300 --> 00:47:03,340
And I know that, that day and the way it went down was absolutely not

520
00:47:03,340 --> 00:47:07,340
by any coincidence or mistake or good luck or anything.

521
00:47:07,340 --> 00:47:13,060
It was, it was the hand of God knowing that inside I wanted to be working

522
00:47:13,060 --> 00:47:15,060
with the best, you know.

523
00:47:15,060 --> 00:47:19,540
And this relationship that I had with this guy, that was very just business-like,

524
00:47:19,540 --> 00:47:25,060
but he saw something in me enough to, he cared enough to tell me, hey,

525
00:47:25,060 --> 00:47:26,180
this is where you need to be.

526
00:47:26,180 --> 00:47:31,820
And he pulled the strings to get me into the fifth battalion in Dade County

527
00:47:31,820 --> 00:47:32,660
fire rescue.

528
00:47:32,660 --> 00:47:38,460
And, and that's when my career really started, you know.

529
00:47:38,460 --> 00:47:40,580
Which, which area is that in Dade County?

530
00:47:40,580 --> 00:47:41,220
What is that, sir?

531
00:47:41,220 --> 00:47:46,900
That is, that's West Little River, Liberty City, Opelaka.

532
00:47:46,900 --> 00:47:48,100
I was at Hialeah.

533
00:47:48,100 --> 00:47:48,940
Hialeah was my first town.

534
00:47:48,940 --> 00:47:50,420
Right about you, Hialeah.

535
00:47:50,420 --> 00:47:51,460
Yeah, yeah.

536
00:47:51,460 --> 00:47:54,740
But I think you guys, I think it was Miami-Dade, not in my city of Miami.

537
00:47:54,740 --> 00:47:59,700
You had a, like a, I don't even know if it was a square mile annex right in the

538
00:47:59,700 --> 00:48:00,700
middle of Hialeah.

539
00:48:00,700 --> 00:48:04,420
So you'd have to drive through like two of our first Jews to get there.

540
00:48:04,420 --> 00:48:07,580
And I think vice versa, there was somewhere that we had that was kind of in your...

541
00:48:07,580 --> 00:48:10,780
We definitely, you know, our territories overlapped.

542
00:48:10,780 --> 00:48:13,780
We overlapped with the city of Miami.

543
00:48:13,780 --> 00:48:17,900
But so I get into that battalion and those guys are, you know, really

544
00:48:17,900 --> 00:48:22,980
passionate and I was just so fortunate to have time there, you know, and they

545
00:48:22,980 --> 00:48:27,020
trained me up and I had a guy take me under his wing and show me how to, how to

546
00:48:27,020 --> 00:48:33,300
handle the apparatus, you know, and there's just so many guys there were so

547
00:48:33,300 --> 00:48:40,740
influential in my career, you know, just wonderful, hardworking, you know, love

548
00:48:40,740 --> 00:48:43,540
the job, living it in and out every day.

549
00:48:43,540 --> 00:48:48,740
And, you know, station two is where, where I wound up working for quite a while.

550
00:48:48,740 --> 00:48:56,140
And they had, you know, we had 11 personnel in that station and it was just

551
00:48:56,140 --> 00:48:57,140
awesome.

552
00:48:57,140 --> 00:49:00,140
It was just awesome.

553
00:49:00,140 --> 00:49:08,780
And, you know, I became an engineer out of that station and, you know, really

554
00:49:08,780 --> 00:49:11,700
just the rubber met the road for that career.

555
00:49:11,700 --> 00:49:15,020
It's like everything you learn in theory, you're actually doing, you know, you

556
00:49:15,020 --> 00:49:20,420
were doing all the different hose stretches, you're, you're employing it on,

557
00:49:20,420 --> 00:49:24,780
you know, real life structure fires, you know, all the stuff that you talk about

558
00:49:24,780 --> 00:49:29,060
in your EMS classes about trauma and whatnot, you're encountering it, you know,

559
00:49:29,060 --> 00:49:35,580
with shooting victims and, you know, stabbing victims and just, but in the

560
00:49:35,580 --> 00:49:41,940
same breath, you're seeing just the absolute, you know, worst of the worst too,

561
00:49:41,940 --> 00:49:50,220
you know, and you're in a very, you know, challenged area of, of the county, you

562
00:49:50,220 --> 00:50:01,420
know, just it's, you know, the cultural norms there of violence and poverty and,

563
00:50:01,420 --> 00:50:07,140
you know, there was just, it was very, at the time it was exciting, but now I look

564
00:50:07,140 --> 00:50:09,180
at, you know, what it does to you.

565
00:50:09,180 --> 00:50:12,380
It takes a toll on you when you're seeing that continuously.

566
00:50:12,380 --> 00:50:15,180
You know, my outlook on life was not positive.

567
00:50:16,340 --> 00:50:19,460
Was Liberty City bad when you were there?

568
00:50:19,500 --> 00:50:22,700
I know when I, by the time I got to Hialeah, so you're talking, you know,

569
00:50:22,700 --> 00:50:27,460
04, 05, that there was that, if I'm not mistaken, it was like Haitian gangs and

570
00:50:27,460 --> 00:50:31,340
some of those, cause Hialeah, I don't remember seeing a lot of violent crime

571
00:50:31,340 --> 00:50:32,060
in Hialeah.

572
00:50:32,700 --> 00:50:38,780
I got there in 03 and yeah, there was, there was all different kinds of

573
00:50:38,780 --> 00:50:43,460
gangs there, but I mean, you know, that was the, you know, you're, you're really

574
00:50:43,460 --> 00:50:46,140
starting to see the AK getting used.

575
00:50:46,540 --> 00:50:51,900
You know, you're responding to battleground injuries, you know, on, on

576
00:50:51,900 --> 00:50:57,220
human beings, you know, hanging out in front of a liquor store, you know, I had

577
00:50:57,220 --> 00:50:58,940
never seen anything like that before.

578
00:50:58,940 --> 00:51:03,860
I'd seen a few traumas in my first three years on the job, but you know, starting

579
00:51:03,860 --> 00:51:06,220
to see those kinds of war wounds on people.

580
00:51:06,220 --> 00:51:09,340
That was, that was incredible.

581
00:51:10,180 --> 00:51:13,660
You know, I remember walking into a bar called the new frontier on 22nd

582
00:51:13,660 --> 00:51:20,220
Avenue, the gunpowder was still floating in the air from the shootout that they

583
00:51:20,220 --> 00:51:24,580
just had there and there were people all over the place wounded, you know, and,

584
00:51:24,580 --> 00:51:31,260
um, you know, and it was just like the quick packaging of patients and triaging

585
00:51:31,260 --> 00:51:36,420
them and getting them off to the, to the trauma center, you know, and then just the

586
00:51:36,420 --> 00:51:40,380
screams and that, you know, the, the terror on the people, you know, and to

587
00:51:40,380 --> 00:51:44,900
you, you, you finished that up and you're going right back to the, you know, to the

588
00:51:44,900 --> 00:51:46,700
dining, to the dining room table.

589
00:51:47,580 --> 00:51:53,420
And, um, you know, we never, uh, it, I didn't think it was really taking any

590
00:51:53,420 --> 00:51:57,380
kind of a toll on me while I was going through it, you know, again, I see this

591
00:51:57,380 --> 00:52:02,180
stuff in the rear view mirror and I see where, you know, as my career progressed

592
00:52:02,180 --> 00:52:06,900
and my, my addiction and alcoholism progress, you know, I see that I was

593
00:52:06,900 --> 00:52:13,380
using the substances and the behaviors as a coping mechanism for, you know, a

594
00:52:13,380 --> 00:52:19,980
lot of the unprocessed, uh, traumas and things that I was enduring on the job,

595
00:52:19,980 --> 00:52:24,380
just the lifestyle, you know, of continuous performance, you know, running

596
00:52:24,380 --> 00:52:28,700
20 calls a day, it takes a toll on you, getting no sleep after midnight

597
00:52:28,700 --> 00:52:33,260
takes a toll on you, leaving from there in that heightened state.

598
00:52:33,620 --> 00:52:39,020
And then going right to my next career, you know, at the fitness center

599
00:52:39,380 --> 00:52:44,460
and performing more and feeling, you know, in, in that, uh, in that high

600
00:52:44,460 --> 00:52:51,100
performance state continuously, I loved it, but now I can appreciate the

601
00:52:51,100 --> 00:52:55,780
fact of what it, what it does to you, you know, and that, uh, you know, the

602
00:52:55,780 --> 00:53:00,420
strategies that I was employing with, you know, working hard and then playing

603
00:53:00,420 --> 00:53:05,900
harder that, uh, that wasn't the healthiest option, you know,

604
00:53:06,060 --> 00:53:06,860
it was interesting.

605
00:53:06,860 --> 00:53:10,660
I had, um, I've had many strength and conditioning coaches on the show, but

606
00:53:10,660 --> 00:53:15,300
one of them was talking about how exhausting it was to be a coach.

607
00:53:15,300 --> 00:53:16,540
And it wasn't like, poor me.

608
00:53:16,540 --> 00:53:20,180
It was just like, it takes a lot because you are there, you know, laser

609
00:53:20,180 --> 00:53:24,460
focus on this and I only coach once in a while, um, never been like a full-time

610
00:53:24,580 --> 00:53:29,180
PT or anything, but, um, it does like you, you're, everyone is looking at you.

611
00:53:29,180 --> 00:53:33,460
If it's a group class or obviously if it's one-on-one and so you have to be on,

612
00:53:33,460 --> 00:53:35,380
you have to be energizer bunny for them.

613
00:53:35,380 --> 00:53:37,380
You have to be focused on their form and everything.

614
00:53:37,380 --> 00:53:42,780
So I can see how coming off a 24 in a place like Hialeah or Liberty city,

615
00:53:43,060 --> 00:53:45,660
where I, I mean, again, I know exactly what you're talking about.

616
00:53:45,660 --> 00:53:49,260
Their call load there was horrendous and they were paid about half what you

617
00:53:49,260 --> 00:53:51,660
guys were paid, the poor guys in Hialeah.

618
00:53:52,700 --> 00:53:57,260
That makes it even tougher because you can rationalize a lot out with the money.

619
00:53:57,620 --> 00:53:58,460
Yeah, exactly.

620
00:53:58,540 --> 00:54:01,420
Then they didn't and they didn't have, you know, state insurance or it's going

621
00:54:01,420 --> 00:54:06,780
to be state pension or any of that stuff, but then to go and do a high, um, energy

622
00:54:06,780 --> 00:54:09,580
job, you've had no way of down regulating.

623
00:54:09,580 --> 00:54:12,900
You know, I can see how by the end of that, you must've just been shot.

624
00:54:12,900 --> 00:54:20,500
You know, I was so fortunate to be working at some of the best facilities.

625
00:54:20,780 --> 00:54:28,380
I mean, with, with great, great personnel, you know, um, in my, in my fitness career.

626
00:54:29,020 --> 00:54:33,300
And at the end of my fitness career, I was working at Canyon ranch, which

627
00:54:33,860 --> 00:54:36,380
you can't get any finer than that.

628
00:54:36,380 --> 00:54:40,820
And, and, and the qualifications to be there, the standards were extremely high.

629
00:54:40,820 --> 00:54:42,740
So, and the expectations were really high.

630
00:54:42,740 --> 00:54:48,140
So, you know, you had to always be on and I loved being on it came natural to me.

631
00:54:49,180 --> 00:54:54,980
Till I started to think I had to manipulate that too, you know, and take

632
00:54:54,980 --> 00:54:59,660
it to a different level, or I didn't know how to, I couldn't come down from it.

633
00:55:00,980 --> 00:55:03,100
You know, and I wanted to come down from it.

634
00:55:03,420 --> 00:55:08,180
You know, I needed that, that relief valve, you know, and then, and that's

635
00:55:08,180 --> 00:55:11,900
where the, you know, the negative coping strategies with the, with the, with

636
00:55:11,900 --> 00:55:17,660
the alcohol and the, and the drugs, you know, really started to, to take a,

637
00:55:17,980 --> 00:55:23,540
take a toll on me, but, um, yeah, just that, that high performance lifestyle.

638
00:55:23,540 --> 00:55:25,020
I was all about it.

639
00:55:25,100 --> 00:55:26,500
You know, I loved it.

640
00:55:26,820 --> 00:55:33,300
I'm so grateful for my time in battalion five and at station two, because I'm a

641
00:55:33,300 --> 00:55:37,780
functional member of the fire service because of it, you know, and I'm

642
00:55:37,780 --> 00:55:42,820
a functional member of the fire service, you know, and the things that I've

643
00:55:42,820 --> 00:55:50,020
learned there and the imprint that those guys made in my mind is, you know,

644
00:55:50,500 --> 00:55:51,300
it's still there.

645
00:55:51,700 --> 00:55:57,540
It's great, you know, but, um, so I'm living this lifestyle of, you know,

646
00:55:57,540 --> 00:56:03,180
high performance on the job and in my second career, it was just go, go, go,

647
00:56:03,180 --> 00:56:04,380
go, go, go, go.

648
00:56:04,380 --> 00:56:07,820
But I really wanted to have my own time to enjoy as well.

649
00:56:09,660 --> 00:56:14,700
And I found that getting high and, uh, was, was the way that I could do it.

650
00:56:15,740 --> 00:56:19,500
You know, and I just like to mix in drugs and alcohol and every, in

651
00:56:19,500 --> 00:56:20,900
everything that I was doing.

652
00:56:22,820 --> 00:56:32,620
And, um, wow, I can't really like, think of like a specific moment, right?

653
00:56:32,620 --> 00:56:38,700
As I'm speaking, you know, it was just, it's everything that they say, um, in

654
00:56:38,700 --> 00:56:46,140
12 step recovery about the progression of, of the disease process, you know,

655
00:56:46,140 --> 00:56:49,500
it starts out as fun, it's fun with consequences and then it's just

656
00:56:49,500 --> 00:56:54,580
consequences, you know, and I really, I live that out, you know, it was fun.

657
00:56:54,580 --> 00:56:58,460
It was an additive, you know, you go to retirement parties, you go to

658
00:56:58,460 --> 00:57:00,660
people's birthdays and everybody's drinking.

659
00:57:00,660 --> 00:57:04,380
Well, I like to bring a little bit of cocaine and some, and have a few pop,

660
00:57:04,380 --> 00:57:08,940
a few pills before I go to, you know, it was the pre party before the party.

661
00:57:09,740 --> 00:57:14,340
You know, that I would do, um, you know, and I do, you know, if I'm going out to

662
00:57:14,340 --> 00:57:18,300
dinner, you know, I'm going to drink the finest bourbon, you know, or I'm going to

663
00:57:18,300 --> 00:57:23,300
match the right wine with, with the steak or the fish that we're eating and enhance

664
00:57:23,300 --> 00:57:28,420
the experience, you know, all sexual activity would be needed to be taken to

665
00:57:28,420 --> 00:57:32,260
the next level.

666
00:57:32,260 --> 00:57:34,140
You know, everything was extreme.

667
00:57:34,140 --> 00:57:41,380
Like just the, just to have things peaceful and normal, quote unquote,

668
00:57:41,380 --> 00:57:47,380
which is what I crave today was like, that's for wimps, man, you know?

669
00:57:48,380 --> 00:57:55,020
So I didn't see that this thing was, was, was getting, was getting me, you know,

670
00:57:55,020 --> 00:58:00,380
you know, until it was, I really started facing some serious consequences, you know?

671
00:58:01,460 --> 00:58:05,380
Um, you know, at this time I'm married.

672
00:58:05,380 --> 00:58:09,140
I have a child, you know, we're talking, we're in the, we're in the middle,

673
00:58:10,340 --> 00:58:19,060
middle, late two thousands, you know, um, my daughter was born in 2007 and I'm

674
00:58:19,060 --> 00:58:21,460
married to a wonderful lady.

675
00:58:21,460 --> 00:58:22,780
I'm still married to her today.

676
00:58:22,820 --> 00:58:23,420
Thank God.

677
00:58:23,420 --> 00:58:29,260
And, uh, you know, I was, I was facing consequences in my relationship with my

678
00:58:29,260 --> 00:58:33,700
wife, you know, because of my drinking, I would, I'd overshoot the mark and I

679
00:58:33,700 --> 00:58:39,820
would just, you know, become, you know, inappropriate or, you know, I'd be

680
00:58:39,820 --> 00:58:46,820
driving drunk, um, you know, I wasn't, I just wasn't the most attentive father.

681
00:58:46,820 --> 00:58:48,500
I wasn't the most attentive husband.

682
00:58:48,500 --> 00:58:52,220
I was extremely selfish and self-centered, you know?

683
00:58:52,220 --> 00:58:56,500
And I couldn't see that because I just thought I was so hardworking, you know?

684
00:58:56,500 --> 00:59:01,500
And I thought that really gave me a pass, uh, for, for a lot of my behavior.

685
00:59:01,500 --> 00:59:09,220
And, you know, I, I really subscribed also to, well, if you saw and experienced

686
00:59:09,220 --> 00:59:13,740
what I just saw and experienced, if you worked the workday that I did, you would

687
00:59:13,740 --> 00:59:17,940
have to do what I have to do too, you know?

688
00:59:17,940 --> 00:59:23,260
And I really, man, I played that card as often and I really believed it.

689
00:59:23,260 --> 00:59:24,380
I don't even say it's a card.

690
00:59:24,380 --> 00:59:24,820
It was a lie.

691
00:59:24,820 --> 00:59:25,900
It was part of the persona.

692
00:59:25,900 --> 00:59:28,340
It was part of the lifestyle at that time.

693
00:59:28,340 --> 00:59:29,500
I was just delusional.

694
00:59:29,500 --> 00:59:34,060
I, I, you know, I really believed that I was entitled to do whatever I wanted

695
00:59:34,060 --> 00:59:38,900
because I was a fireman and, and a hardworking fitness professional, you know?

696
00:59:39,260 --> 00:59:44,340
And that if somebody else had to pick up my slack along the way, then that's

697
00:59:44,340 --> 00:59:46,980
just what they had to do, you know?

698
00:59:46,980 --> 00:59:51,340
And I'm talking about the parenting at home and it was, it was spilling

699
00:59:51,340 --> 00:59:53,220
over into my work life too.

700
00:59:54,860 --> 01:00:00,420
One of my, uh, friends who again battled alcoholism has a, an amazing recovery

701
01:00:00,420 --> 01:00:04,940
story now leads a kind of recovery fitness group here in central Florida.

702
01:00:04,940 --> 01:00:10,140
But one thing that was interesting when we kind of unpacked his story is he,

703
01:00:10,340 --> 01:00:15,340
he had sexual abuse as a child, started drinking very young, like still as a,

704
01:00:15,340 --> 01:00:18,260
you know, I think it was either side of teens basically.

705
01:00:18,740 --> 01:00:23,300
Um, and then drank all the way through, got into the military, ended up going

706
01:00:23,300 --> 01:00:24,860
through green beret selection.

707
01:00:25,380 --> 01:00:29,220
Um, I believe he was successful, but then the moment the testing period stopped,

708
01:00:29,820 --> 01:00:32,860
he, you know, and he was off, the eyeballs went watching him again.

709
01:00:32,940 --> 01:00:37,140
He was back drinking and then he ended up getting discharged and then was, um,

710
01:00:37,180 --> 01:00:39,980
you know, all over the place for a while, found the fire service.

711
01:00:40,340 --> 01:00:44,900
And for about 10 years, he maintained his sobriety, but around the 10 year

712
01:00:44,900 --> 01:00:46,780
mark is when it started slipping again.

713
01:00:47,460 --> 01:00:52,300
And what was interesting is a lot of people that have had stuff in their past.

714
01:00:53,420 --> 01:00:56,140
We know that we're attracted to this profession.

715
01:00:56,140 --> 01:00:58,660
I think arguably there's a lot of kindness and compassion of that.

716
01:00:58,660 --> 01:01:03,260
You don't want other people to experience what you did, you know, the suffering,

717
01:01:03,260 --> 01:01:06,580
you want to be the healer, you want to be there to be there to help on their worst

718
01:01:06,580 --> 01:01:12,180
day, but there's another element of it where it's busy-ness and it's excitement.

719
01:01:12,180 --> 01:01:15,860
So if you're at work, you're not thinking about the thing you take an overtime

720
01:01:15,860 --> 01:01:17,620
shift, you're still not thinking about the thing.

721
01:01:18,180 --> 01:01:21,140
And, but the newness of the job starts to wear off.

722
01:01:21,140 --> 01:01:24,900
And then if you had this for me, it was about 10 years where, unless the whole

723
01:01:24,900 --> 01:01:28,740
damn house is on fire, I wouldn't call it a fire, you know, if it was a room and

724
01:01:28,740 --> 01:01:30,340
content, so that's not a real fire, is it?

725
01:01:30,700 --> 01:01:34,460
Whereas when you're a rookie, it could be a, you know, a flip-flop on fire and you

726
01:01:34,460 --> 01:01:36,780
you'll be telling everyone, you know, that you just slayed the dragon, you

727
01:01:36,780 --> 01:01:37,220
know what I mean?

728
01:01:37,220 --> 01:01:42,900
So when that newness wears off, I think is when some of these demons start poking

729
01:01:42,900 --> 01:01:43,940
their head out again.

730
01:01:44,300 --> 01:01:46,220
Was there any element of that for you?

731
01:01:46,220 --> 01:01:47,140
Oh goodness.

732
01:01:47,500 --> 01:01:50,740
I'm so, so glad you mentioned it.

733
01:01:51,260 --> 01:01:55,300
You know, we call it the shine starts to wear off the apple, you know, I'm like

734
01:01:55,300 --> 01:02:00,260
that spoiled kid who gets the bike that he always wanted, but it's the wrong color.

735
01:02:01,460 --> 01:02:06,780
You know, um, I'm almost like embarrassed to say it.

736
01:02:06,780 --> 01:02:08,700
I mean, that's how I lived my life.

737
01:02:09,260 --> 01:02:15,340
You know, once I got the combination and I knew what was expected of me, I was

738
01:02:15,340 --> 01:02:19,700
always looking to be able to stretch the limits of what I could get away with.

739
01:02:20,540 --> 01:02:28,940
Um, or not, not get away with, but how I could do it my way, you know, as long as

740
01:02:28,940 --> 01:02:34,220
I was meeting those benchmarks, then I would do what I wanted to do, you know?

741
01:02:34,220 --> 01:02:40,460
Um, and that really doesn't, you know, people that are started, that are living

742
01:02:40,460 --> 01:02:44,340
with you every third day for 24 hours at a time, and they start to recognize

743
01:02:44,340 --> 01:02:48,740
that quality about you, you know, that you're not as into the job as they are.

744
01:02:49,020 --> 01:02:51,260
That you don't appreciate it as much as they do.

745
01:02:51,580 --> 01:02:56,140
You say it out your mouth, but your actions are not living up to that.

746
01:02:56,540 --> 01:03:03,260
You know, that, uh, that inconsistency, you know, it, it challenges the

747
01:03:03,260 --> 01:03:05,220
relationship with your coworkers, you know?

748
01:03:05,220 --> 01:03:10,860
And I had, there's one guy in particular that, you know, I, I just respected

749
01:03:10,860 --> 01:03:15,940
him so much and wanted his, I wanted his approval so much, you know, and, and

750
01:03:15,940 --> 01:03:21,020
he called me out on it and, uh, that was one of the toughest days of my life, you

751
01:03:21,020 --> 01:03:25,300
know, and then I would double up my efforts to try to make it, to make it

752
01:03:25,300 --> 01:03:29,780
better, but little did I know I already had that label on me, you know, and I

753
01:03:29,780 --> 01:03:35,140
was just working extra to try to, you know, reestablish myself back to a place

754
01:03:35,140 --> 01:03:40,700
of, um, you know, being another, you know, a good standing member in the house.

755
01:03:41,260 --> 01:03:48,620
You know, and so, you know, I got into station two in 2003 and then by 2005,

756
01:03:49,060 --> 01:03:55,060
uh, my addiction was, was so bad that one of the, one of the officers

757
01:03:55,060 --> 01:03:56,820
there was, was totally onto me.

758
01:03:56,820 --> 01:04:05,420
You know, and, um, you know, he, he was, he was trying to get me, you know,

759
01:04:06,420 --> 01:04:09,420
with the paperwork, you know, for a reasonable suspicion.

760
01:04:10,020 --> 01:04:17,420
And, uh, you know, I just happened to, because I already had a couple years of,

761
01:04:17,460 --> 01:04:21,620
of, you know, being a good member in the house and, uh, you know, a lot of

762
01:04:21,620 --> 01:04:25,460
guys that loved me, you know, we had great relationships.

763
01:04:25,460 --> 01:04:29,260
They were telling me, listen, so-and-so is, you know, he, he's got it out for

764
01:04:29,260 --> 01:04:31,420
you, you better watch your ass, you know?

765
01:04:31,460 --> 01:04:36,380
So I would be very careful, but in the same breath, you know, I was

766
01:04:36,620 --> 01:04:40,660
doing what I wanted to do, you know, when, when, when those withdrawals

767
01:04:40,660 --> 01:04:45,620
would come in or whatever, I had to, I had to take care of the lifestyle, you

768
01:04:45,620 --> 01:04:50,860
know, that my addiction had put me in, you know, so I, I just couldn't completely

769
01:04:50,860 --> 01:04:57,660
stop and, um, you know, at that time I was such a bad opioid addict, I was

770
01:04:57,660 --> 01:05:02,660
already in a methadone program, you know, my first time in 2005.

771
01:05:03,980 --> 01:05:06,260
So, you know, I'm strung out on methadone.

772
01:05:06,260 --> 01:05:11,620
I'm coming to work at a firehouse running 20 calls a day, you know, and

773
01:05:11,620 --> 01:05:14,380
then I'm leaving and I'm going and working in a fitness facility.

774
01:05:14,380 --> 01:05:18,500
I'm teaching, you know, three spinning classes and training five people a day.

775
01:05:18,500 --> 01:05:24,500
You know, all of this while doing, you know, uh, you know, tons of opiates

776
01:05:24,500 --> 01:05:28,580
and drinking alcohol and, you know, and then I'm trying to be on a methadone

777
01:05:28,580 --> 01:05:29,660
program to quit.

778
01:05:29,700 --> 01:05:34,140
I mean, it was just such a shit show and this guy could see it, you know?

779
01:05:34,420 --> 01:05:39,100
So one night they intervened on me at the station and I went away to my

780
01:05:39,100 --> 01:05:43,740
first treatment in 2005, you know, and I would draw from methadone for the

781
01:05:43,740 --> 01:05:44,780
first time in my life.

782
01:05:44,780 --> 01:05:47,300
And, and that, you know, was life changing.

783
01:05:47,300 --> 01:05:48,500
I thought I was going to die.

784
01:05:48,700 --> 01:05:50,340
I had never felt that way before.

785
01:05:50,740 --> 01:05:59,140
You know, um, uh, I was 30, what I think I was like 35, 36 years old, you know?

786
01:05:59,580 --> 01:06:03,260
And I felt like a decrepit old man, you know, when I was coming off of that.

787
01:06:03,900 --> 01:06:06,700
And, uh, I swore I'd never go back on it.

788
01:06:06,700 --> 01:06:12,340
And, you know, I come out of treatment with a firm resolve to, you know, my,

789
01:06:12,340 --> 01:06:16,140
I hadn't had a child yet, but I remember telling my therapist in treatment, my

790
01:06:16,140 --> 01:06:21,940
daughter, my child that I'm going to have will never see his dad, you know, drunk or high.

791
01:06:22,700 --> 01:06:26,340
You know, and I'm going to fix my relationships all, you know, we're

792
01:06:26,340 --> 01:06:29,860
learning about the 12 steps and everything in the beginning, in the beginning of

793
01:06:29,860 --> 01:06:33,620
treatment, but I hadn't even taken step one, you know, but I was already going to

794
01:06:33,620 --> 01:06:39,580
fix all my relationships when I got out of treatment and, um, sure enough, I,

795
01:06:39,580 --> 01:06:43,780
you know, I'm good for like a year and a half and then I, I started all over and

796
01:06:43,780 --> 01:06:45,540
take it to the next level of low.

797
01:06:46,780 --> 01:06:50,260
When you look back, what was it that caused you to stumble again?

798
01:06:51,620 --> 01:06:55,100
I hadn't really conceded to my innermost self that I was an addict.

799
01:06:56,980 --> 01:07:01,300
You know, I could not accept the fact that I couldn't overcome this.

800
01:07:02,100 --> 01:07:06,700
You know, I couldn't accept the fact that I didn't know that I didn't have the coping

801
01:07:06,700 --> 01:07:08,140
strategies that I needed.

802
01:07:08,580 --> 01:07:13,540
So of course I jumped right back into the same lifestyle that I had before.

803
01:07:13,540 --> 01:07:15,140
And I'm trying to do it now.

804
01:07:15,300 --> 01:07:20,020
I'm trying to run all the calls, go and work my fitness job off duty

805
01:07:20,420 --> 01:07:22,140
without drinking and drugging.

806
01:07:22,500 --> 01:07:26,620
And I'm half-assing my 12 step work.

807
01:07:27,540 --> 01:07:31,820
You know, that is what introduces you to this recovery lifestyle.

808
01:07:31,820 --> 01:07:33,420
That's one of the ways that it could happen.

809
01:07:33,420 --> 01:07:35,860
I'm not doing that earnestly.

810
01:07:36,060 --> 01:07:44,860
So I'm just, I'm not participating in what someone who is really an addict has to do

811
01:07:44,860 --> 01:07:50,100
in order to live happily and usefully whole as a fireman and a fitness

812
01:07:50,100 --> 01:07:50,660
professional.

813
01:07:50,660 --> 01:07:57,820
So I just, I was just going around in a circle bound to repeat the same thing

814
01:07:57,820 --> 01:08:02,900
again with, but the bottom is going to be even worse this next time.

815
01:08:02,900 --> 01:08:11,060
I didn't even know it, but they were telling me, you know, so it was just, you

816
01:08:11,060 --> 01:08:12,940
know, it went on for years.

817
01:08:12,940 --> 01:08:18,100
I would do well for a couple of years and I'd have some incidents where, you

818
01:08:18,100 --> 01:08:21,540
know, I'm not doing well.

819
01:08:21,540 --> 01:08:23,980
It becomes abundant to my coworkers.

820
01:08:23,980 --> 01:08:29,700
And they start to tell me again, so then I would put myself into treatment again.

821
01:08:31,420 --> 01:08:35,860
You know, and then I come out again with a firm resolve to, you know, get it, get

822
01:08:35,860 --> 01:08:36,820
it all together.

823
01:08:36,820 --> 01:08:40,100
And I do it for even more for another stretch of years.

824
01:08:40,580 --> 01:08:43,420
And then, but really not do the work.

825
01:08:44,460 --> 01:08:44,820
Yeah.

826
01:08:45,420 --> 01:08:49,020
I do a little bit of therapy with a therapist and talk about my family of

827
01:08:49,020 --> 01:08:52,260
origin, but I do it for a couple of years.

828
01:08:52,260 --> 01:08:59,060
I do it for my family of origin, but not to deprecate anything that a therapist

829
01:08:59,100 --> 01:09:03,980
and you know, that the therapist that I worked with tried to do for me.

830
01:09:04,940 --> 01:09:11,900
But the truth is no one ever did what the fourth step in a 12 step program did for

831
01:09:11,900 --> 01:09:19,380
me, which was make me look at what my part and where my life was and how I got there.

832
01:09:19,380 --> 01:09:23,820
And I'm all trying to unpack my childhood and make sense of it.

833
01:09:24,300 --> 01:09:29,020
And I have to tell you that understanding what I understand about my upbringing

834
01:09:29,180 --> 01:09:34,140
does not make everything go away.

835
01:09:35,900 --> 01:09:40,180
You know, they were not teaching me, those therapists were not teaching me the

836
01:09:40,180 --> 01:09:44,580
resiliency lifestyle that I'm leave that I'm living today.

837
01:09:44,580 --> 01:09:49,100
I could not begin that resiliency lifestyle until I first started to

838
01:09:49,100 --> 01:09:55,060
understand that I was an addict and alcoholic and I'm working as a first

839
01:09:55,060 --> 01:10:00,900
responder, experiencing a traumatic lifestyle, living in this heightened

840
01:10:00,900 --> 01:10:07,020
state of awareness and performance continuously and overstimulated.

841
01:10:07,020 --> 01:10:08,980
And I don't know how to come down from that.

842
01:10:08,980 --> 01:10:13,900
And I don't know how to live normally without manipulating those feelings.

843
01:10:13,900 --> 01:10:16,140
I can't live through them and process them.

844
01:10:16,340 --> 01:10:17,900
I just want them to go away.

845
01:10:18,660 --> 01:10:20,940
You know, and I want the results instantly.

846
01:10:22,020 --> 01:10:28,780
And I stayed in that, in that trap, that delusion, that space for, for quite a

847
01:10:28,780 --> 01:10:34,060
long time until the universe aligned and put me in a place where, you know, you

848
01:10:34,060 --> 01:10:39,460
were talking about not, not appreciating the career, you know, I think you were

849
01:10:39,460 --> 01:10:44,980
speaking about that before, you know, I really thought it was my right to drink

850
01:10:44,980 --> 01:10:51,420
beer and go to work, you know, because I had to, you know,

851
01:10:51,860 --> 01:10:53,340
you know, what about the family side?

852
01:10:53,340 --> 01:10:58,380
You talked about, you know, slowly, uh, you know, events slowly happening where

853
01:10:58,380 --> 01:10:59,980
you weren't being the best husband.

854
01:10:59,980 --> 01:11:01,420
You weren't being the best father.

855
01:11:01,740 --> 01:11:02,020
Right.

856
01:11:02,020 --> 01:11:03,940
So that's all happening everywhere.

857
01:11:04,620 --> 01:11:07,100
So what were you seeing through your, through your children?

858
01:11:07,100 --> 01:11:10,340
I wasn't appreciating, I wasn't appreciating my marriage.

859
01:11:10,580 --> 01:11:14,460
I didn't, I didn't appreciate my responsibilities as a father.

860
01:11:14,900 --> 01:11:19,980
Um, you know, everything was about me in the way that I felt, you know, and I was

861
01:11:19,980 --> 01:11:26,780
constantly feeling, you know, just unsettled and uneasy, you know, they talk

862
01:11:26,780 --> 01:11:31,940
about a restless, irritable and discontented spirit, you know, in the

863
01:11:31,940 --> 01:11:34,740
first step of, of, of recovery.

864
01:11:34,740 --> 01:11:40,220
That's exactly what I had, you know, like I had the greatest job in the best

865
01:11:40,220 --> 01:11:43,420
station in Miami-Dade County, but something wasn't right.

866
01:11:43,940 --> 01:11:49,460
You know, I had a beautiful wife and a gorgeous little baby girl and

867
01:11:49,460 --> 01:11:51,420
something just wasn't right.

868
01:11:51,580 --> 01:11:53,700
I can't really put my finger on it.

869
01:11:54,380 --> 01:11:57,060
You know, um, I have a great side career.

870
01:11:57,060 --> 01:12:02,860
I'm working in the, in the premier fitness facility in the country and

871
01:12:02,860 --> 01:12:04,220
something just isn't right.

872
01:12:04,220 --> 01:12:10,540
Well, the something that wasn't right was my spirit and I did not know how to,

873
01:12:11,100 --> 01:12:13,540
how to get at that and work on it.

874
01:12:13,900 --> 01:12:22,140
So I had to keep experiencing the consequences of my behavior, you know,

875
01:12:22,380 --> 01:12:28,420
and there's a component that I subscribe to in addiction of there's that restless,

876
01:12:28,420 --> 01:12:32,060
irritable, discontented spirit, and there's that self-centered, self-centered

877
01:12:32,060 --> 01:12:36,300
nature, whether that came from my hyper-vigilant upbringing and traumatic

878
01:12:36,300 --> 01:12:42,700
upbringing that made me think about myself, you know, as to what the

879
01:12:42,700 --> 01:12:47,020
consequences were going to be, you know, in my family, if I didn't, you know, like

880
01:12:47,020 --> 01:12:49,940
I told you, if I didn't have my room clean enough, you know, I'm going to hear

881
01:12:49,940 --> 01:12:55,100
it from mom, did that get me so obsessed with myself or is it really just organic?

882
01:12:55,100 --> 01:13:00,660
It's, you know, this is what separates me from other people, you know, that what

883
01:13:00,660 --> 01:13:02,620
makes me an addict and an alcoholic.

884
01:13:04,620 --> 01:13:05,620
To me, it doesn't matter.

885
01:13:05,620 --> 01:13:11,700
I realize what it is now, but I had no idea that that feeling that everything

886
01:13:11,700 --> 01:13:16,020
really is as good as it could be, but something's just missing, you know, and

887
01:13:16,020 --> 01:13:21,420
I'm filling that hole with drugs and alcohol and it's making my outside

888
01:13:21,420 --> 01:13:28,340
world even more complicated and chaotic and traumatic and it's just, I'm caught

889
01:13:28,340 --> 01:13:33,020
in that, you know, in that circle and it was just, it was God awful and, you

890
01:13:33,020 --> 01:13:35,860
know, the thing is my wife wasn't having it at home.

891
01:13:35,860 --> 01:13:40,580
I couldn't drink at home anymore and so I would be, I lived the complete

892
01:13:40,580 --> 01:13:45,660
opposite lifestyle of what a fireman does, you know, I would be drinking

893
01:13:45,660 --> 01:13:51,260
and using drugs on duty and I would be sober at home and I was absolutely

894
01:13:51,260 --> 01:13:52,260
miserable.

895
01:13:52,260 --> 01:13:57,300
When you're talking about the chasing, you know, the achieving all these things

896
01:13:57,300 --> 01:14:01,980
and still feeling like it's not enough, that to me again, and it's funny because

897
01:14:01,980 --> 01:14:03,300
we would talk about early life.

898
01:14:03,300 --> 01:14:06,620
I like the phrase, reasons, not excuses.

899
01:14:06,620 --> 01:14:09,860
You have to be able to see how you became who you are.

900
01:14:10,260 --> 01:14:12,260
It doesn't mean that you become a victim of that.

901
01:14:12,260 --> 01:14:14,540
It just, you have to see it before you can process it.

902
01:14:14,860 --> 01:14:19,380
And I see this a lot, you know, it's SEALS, SAS, Delta, you know, firefighters,

903
01:14:19,380 --> 01:14:20,380
SWAT officers.

904
01:14:20,380 --> 01:14:26,420
That we get to this high, high level, but for some of us, we're chasing being

905
01:14:26,420 --> 01:14:29,740
enough and it probably is rooted in when we were kids.

906
01:14:30,060 --> 01:14:35,740
But a thing, a career, you know, a car, a mansion, a bank account, you know, the

907
01:14:35,740 --> 01:14:39,700
prettiest girl on your arm, that doesn't, that's not enough.

908
01:14:39,700 --> 01:14:43,460
Like being enough is feeling the love of a parent, feeling the love of a partner

909
01:14:43,460 --> 01:14:44,460
or a child.

910
01:14:44,500 --> 01:14:48,140
So I think that's another thing is that you see this a lot, even with, you know,

911
01:14:48,140 --> 01:14:51,980
the very, very wealthy. I've had, I've heard trainers say that, you know, they,

912
01:14:52,100 --> 01:14:54,980
they know some of the wealthiest people on the planet and they're among some of

913
01:14:54,980 --> 01:14:56,300
the most unhappy people on the planet.

914
01:14:57,140 --> 01:15:00,580
Yeah, I'm so grateful you mentioned that, you know, the worthiness piece.

915
01:15:01,940 --> 01:15:04,820
You know, that, that's okay.

916
01:15:04,820 --> 01:15:10,100
I, I, I describe it as a restless, irritable and discontented spirit, but yeah,

917
01:15:10,100 --> 01:15:11,380
it's, I'm not enough.

918
01:15:11,380 --> 01:15:12,380
I'm not good enough.

919
01:15:12,940 --> 01:15:14,260
You know, I'm a fraud.

920
01:15:14,380 --> 01:15:15,940
People are going to figure it out.

921
01:15:15,940 --> 01:15:18,940
You know, and then they're going to abandon me or I'm going to be shamed.

922
01:15:19,860 --> 01:15:22,100
So I'm living in fear continuously.

923
01:15:23,540 --> 01:15:26,780
And when I'm in that state, I need relief.

924
01:15:27,340 --> 01:15:31,540
I don't know how to process this with the therapist that I'm spending a lot of

925
01:15:31,540 --> 01:15:34,420
money to sit on a comfortable chair and talk it out with.

926
01:15:36,220 --> 01:15:41,620
So I'm running these substances through my body to try to lessen the feelings.

927
01:15:42,260 --> 01:15:45,820
You know, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm

928
01:15:45,820 --> 01:15:48,480
not leaving my rock

929
01:15:48,480 --> 01:15:52,180
and straight reason, I did it.

930
01:15:53,220 --> 01:16:04,240
I became the

931
01:16:04,240 --> 01:16:10,720
mark again at work and it was absolutely noticeable to my co-workers and the jig was up.

932
01:16:11,920 --> 01:16:21,120
You know, they had seen me go away to treatment, come back, behave, start, you know, living that

933
01:16:21,120 --> 01:16:29,040
lifestyle that, you know, wasn't working again, using and drinking, you know, performance not

934
01:16:29,040 --> 01:16:34,080
being the same, abusing leave time, you know, just not being the co-worker that I could be,

935
01:16:34,720 --> 01:16:40,720
and it was happening again and, you know, they just intervened right there and I was in so much

936
01:16:40,720 --> 01:16:48,000
trouble so fast that there was nothing, there was nothing I could do. You know, there was no way I

937
01:16:48,000 --> 01:16:53,760
was going to manipulate my way out of that situation. You know, this one went on paper

938
01:16:53,760 --> 01:17:01,120
and, you know, little did I know that was the worst day of my life up to that point,

939
01:17:01,840 --> 01:17:05,040
that that would be the greatest thing, the best thing that ever happened to me,

940
01:17:06,000 --> 01:17:12,000
you know, because that finally forced me into my last treatment center where, you know, they really

941
01:17:12,000 --> 01:17:19,600
impressed upon you that you must partake in the 12 steps if you, you know, if you use alcohol and

942
01:17:19,600 --> 01:17:27,760
alcohol and drugs the way that I do, or you're doomed to do it again, you know, and that's what

943
01:17:27,760 --> 01:17:33,280
got me on this journey of self-awareness and resiliency and, you know, and that's what my

944
01:17:33,280 --> 01:17:39,280
life is about today. Before we jump into the journey out of that, because obviously there's a

945
01:17:39,280 --> 01:17:43,120
lot of a lot we're going to discuss there, but you just kind of spurred something on my mind.

946
01:17:43,120 --> 01:17:48,960
My first book that I wrote, One More Light, I talked about an analogy that popped into my mind

947
01:17:48,960 --> 01:17:56,000
and it was hearing someone on a podcast, but they just kind of mentioned the bucket, I feel like the

948
01:17:56,000 --> 01:18:00,720
bucket being full or something, but so often in the mental health conversation in the first

949
01:18:00,720 --> 01:18:06,080
responders, you hear your backpacks, you know, overflowing, the cup is overflowing, and so I was

950
01:18:06,080 --> 01:18:12,080
applying that to addiction. I'm like that doesn't fit, that analogy doesn't fit for addiction.

951
01:18:12,800 --> 01:18:18,720
So if you flip it around and imagine that you have a bucket and the body, you know, the mind,

952
01:18:18,720 --> 01:18:25,680
the spirit, the soul needs that bucket to be full, not empty, and so you start off as a kid, you know,

953
01:18:25,680 --> 01:18:30,000
you spill a little bit, you get spanked as a child, you know, you graze your knee, your dog dies,

954
01:18:30,560 --> 01:18:35,520
but then, you know, good food and playing with your friends and sunshine and nature,

955
01:18:35,520 --> 01:18:40,240
it fills it back up again, and then as you start going through life, and it might be that when you

956
01:18:40,240 --> 01:18:45,760
were young, you were unlucky and you had some sexual abuse or some other things and it begins

957
01:18:45,760 --> 01:18:50,480
to overwhelm and it starts to drain a bit. So basically, holes are being plugged in this bucket

958
01:18:51,360 --> 01:18:56,400
and the fluid is starting to leak out. Well, as you progress into adulthood and you're exposed

959
01:18:56,400 --> 01:19:02,320
to some of these unhealthy coping mechanisms, your soul is saying, just fill the fucking bucket,

960
01:19:02,320 --> 01:19:05,200
and so you're like, well, there's gambling and there's porn, will that work? Yeah, fuck it,

961
01:19:05,200 --> 01:19:09,600
just put it in, you know what I mean? And then there's, you know, opiates and then there's alcohol

962
01:19:09,600 --> 01:19:14,720
and the bucket is yearning to be full, but as you know, those come with consequences and now more

963
01:19:14,720 --> 01:19:19,440
holes are being punched, your relationship deteriorating, you're losing money, you know,

964
01:19:19,440 --> 01:19:24,240
your children don't want to talk to you anymore, whatever it is, and now you're bleeding even more

965
01:19:24,960 --> 01:19:30,080
and there's this greater need then for anything just to fill the bucket, but then if you flip

966
01:19:30,080 --> 01:19:36,160
that around, now you have an aha moment, you know, and you start doing mindfulness, you start,

967
01:19:36,160 --> 01:19:40,720
you know, meeting with a group of peers and talking about what you're doing. Some of these

968
01:19:40,720 --> 01:19:46,880
holes start being patched up and the less the bleeding, the more strength you have to go,

969
01:19:46,880 --> 01:19:51,280
you know what, I'm going to eat a healthy meal today, I'm not, you know, I'm going to skip coffee,

970
01:19:51,280 --> 01:19:55,920
I'm going to have water or whatever it is, and now that fluid starts being replaced with healthy

971
01:19:55,920 --> 01:20:01,680
things again. So I think that's a good analogy for addiction is that there's a void, there's a leak

972
01:20:02,400 --> 01:20:08,240
and your mind is saying, just fill it, just fucking fill it, which is why it's so hard for some of our

973
01:20:08,240 --> 01:20:12,880
men and women that are struggling with whatever the addiction, it might be social media, narcissism,

974
01:20:12,880 --> 01:20:19,680
whatever it is, but this need to fill and once you can start shifting them, you know, baby steps

975
01:20:19,680 --> 01:20:26,720
towards the healthier coping mechanisms and start plugging those holes, then that, you know, desperate

976
01:20:26,720 --> 01:20:33,440
need to pour anything in there is slowed down and then they start gaining the strength to regain

977
01:20:33,440 --> 01:20:42,640
the healthy fluid within that bucket. Yeah, excellent. I believe it. I lived it. Yeah,

978
01:20:46,560 --> 01:20:58,080
yeah, there was just, yeah, I, everything that you said, I can relate to

979
01:20:58,080 --> 01:21:06,960
until, you know, until I hit that place where I was forced to look at myself, I just couldn't even

980
01:21:06,960 --> 01:21:12,480
conceptualize what you were saying. You know, awareness is the beginning of everything,

981
01:21:13,920 --> 01:21:20,160
you know, and I had to become aware that, you know, my coping strategies weren't right and then that

982
01:21:20,160 --> 01:21:26,000
led me to understand that I have these holes, you know, and that led me to understand that I have

983
01:21:26,000 --> 01:21:31,520
these, you know, and that, like you said, you know, before it used to be, you know, enough playtime

984
01:21:32,160 --> 01:21:37,600
could heal those wounds or enough, you know, the enough overtime on my paycheck made it worth

985
01:21:37,600 --> 01:21:43,840
running the calls for, you know, enough accolades on the job made me feel like I was enough of a

986
01:21:43,840 --> 01:21:49,840
fireman or, you know, enough accolades at the fitness facility made me feel like I really was

987
01:21:49,840 --> 01:21:57,760
the, you know, one of the best instructors and capable of, you know, leading, you know, classes.

988
01:22:02,080 --> 01:22:08,880
You know, but I didn't know how to fill those holes on my own, you know, I just didn't,

989
01:22:08,880 --> 01:22:14,720
I didn't know until I started to learn. So then walk me through that journey,

990
01:22:14,720 --> 01:22:20,960
you know, you're in 2017 now, you're faced with losing your dream career. At the very end of my

991
01:22:20,960 --> 01:22:28,160
addiction, you know, I so desperately did not want to use opiates that I had been on Suboxone,

992
01:22:29,040 --> 01:22:36,480
okay, and, you know, a medication that is supposed to stop the cravings and allow you to live without

993
01:22:36,480 --> 01:22:43,920
taking opiates. And at the same time, you know, from being in that, that, you know, high performance

994
01:22:43,920 --> 01:22:50,000
lifestyle, I had a lot of anxiety and I was constantly in withdrawal from this medication,

995
01:22:50,640 --> 01:22:56,880
you know, unless you take it perfectly on time. And even with that, you know, it's just that

996
01:22:56,880 --> 01:23:03,680
anxiety of what if I don't have my prescription? So now I'm taking Klonopin for anxiety, right?

997
01:23:03,680 --> 01:23:14,400
One of the highest powered benzos that you could take and I'm drinking alcohol and doing the

998
01:23:14,400 --> 01:23:23,840
occasional cocaine too, right? So, you know, this cocktail that I'm living on was just deteriorating

999
01:23:23,840 --> 01:23:30,720
me, you know, you talk about losing, you know, losing your lifestyle. I wasn't racing anymore.

1000
01:23:30,720 --> 01:23:36,560
I was teaching my classes, you know, but I wasn't teaching as well as I used to. I was showing up

1001
01:23:36,560 --> 01:23:42,960
to work, but I was just making it through the tour. You know, I was 40 pounds heavier than I am now.

1002
01:23:42,960 --> 01:23:54,960
I was bloated like a toad. You know, I was overeating. So, you know, there were so many

1003
01:23:54,960 --> 01:24:04,720
things that needed to change. So when I, you know, had that moment where they intervened on me,

1004
01:24:05,280 --> 01:24:12,560
you know, I had so many things in my system that had to come out, you know, that the beginning of

1005
01:24:12,560 --> 01:24:19,760
my recovery was just, was god awful. The physical debilitation that I was in, the state that I was

1006
01:24:19,760 --> 01:24:28,080
in when I was separated from all these substances was devastating, you know, it was absolutely

1007
01:24:28,080 --> 01:24:34,160
devastating. But that Suboxone and the Clonopin themselves, that combination of those two drugs,

1008
01:24:35,760 --> 01:24:40,320
that was just incredible. To get off of that was one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life.

1009
01:24:40,960 --> 01:24:47,280
You know, I wanted to get off of Suboxone earlier, but I just couldn't, I could get myself down to

1010
01:24:47,280 --> 01:24:54,240
the lowest dose, but I could not step off out of the fear of the withdrawals to come. You know,

1011
01:24:55,200 --> 01:25:02,880
I had no idea what the benzo withdrawal was going to be like. And to be truthful, I can't delineate

1012
01:25:02,880 --> 01:25:07,600
between the two because I went through them both at the same time. It was horrific. I mean, it was

1013
01:25:07,600 --> 01:25:13,600
absolutely horrific. So the physical debilitation at the end, when I was separated from all these

1014
01:25:13,600 --> 01:25:21,440
drugs, because I went to a detox, I was there for nine days, and then the treatment center that

1015
01:25:21,440 --> 01:25:27,600
my union had an agreement with, you know, you had to be completely detoxed from all drugs before you

1016
01:25:27,600 --> 01:25:34,560
came in there. And they weren't going to give you any kind of narcotics to soothe you at all. So now

1017
01:25:34,560 --> 01:25:41,760
I'm in for it, you know, and I know it. So I'm like super anxious. I mean, my blood pressure when I

1018
01:25:41,760 --> 01:25:48,640
checked into treatment after nine days of detox was 190 over 110. They immediately put me on some

1019
01:25:48,640 --> 01:25:55,440
anti-seizure meds, but the rest I just had to gut it out. I didn't sleep for like, I didn't sleep

1020
01:25:55,440 --> 01:26:02,240
for 90 days. You know, I didn't have a solid bowel movement for 90 days. You know, I had diarrhea

1021
01:26:02,240 --> 01:26:11,280
every day for 90 days. You know, I didn't sleep for 90 days. I would sit there on my back, then on my

1022
01:26:11,280 --> 01:26:17,600
side, then on my other side. It was absolutely horrific, the beginning of this journey. And that

1023
01:26:17,600 --> 01:26:26,160
got my attention. You know, I couldn't believe that such a high functioning guy was reduced to

1024
01:26:26,160 --> 01:26:33,280
just a blithering mess. And I totally understood that it was because of the lifestyle that I was

1025
01:26:33,280 --> 01:26:39,920
leading, you know, that I became completely, totally dependent on these medications, you know,

1026
01:26:39,920 --> 01:26:47,120
and now I don't have them anymore. And this is the result. And I so desperately wanted to get back to

1027
01:26:47,120 --> 01:26:53,200
the guy that I knew, but that was not going to come easy. You know, this has been a long, long,

1028
01:26:53,200 --> 01:27:00,240
long journey, but that was the beginning. And at the same time, I'm not sure if I have a job.

1029
01:27:00,960 --> 01:27:07,920
You know, I'm in the disciplinary process at work. I'm talking to my union rep, but they can't

1030
01:27:07,920 --> 01:27:12,800
guarantee me what's going to happen because the charges against me were really severe. You know,

1031
01:27:12,800 --> 01:27:18,720
I mean, what I had done being, you know, drunken on all these substances on duty, even though they

1032
01:27:18,720 --> 01:27:23,360
were prescribed, I mean, you know, to see that written out on a disciplinary action report is

1033
01:27:23,360 --> 01:27:30,240
pretty overwhelming and humbling, you know. So they made it abundantly clear, like, listen,

1034
01:27:30,240 --> 01:27:34,880
there's no guarantee you're going to have your job. So now I'm, you know, in fear of that,

1035
01:27:34,880 --> 01:27:39,040
and I'm relaying that to my wife and she's letting me know, do you have any idea that,

1036
01:27:39,040 --> 01:27:44,800
you know, if we lose your, if you lose your career and you lose your, you lose your insurance,

1037
01:27:45,360 --> 01:27:49,600
you know, our medical insurance, do you know that our daughter's asthma medication,

1038
01:27:49,600 --> 01:27:53,600
if we had to pay full price, it will just, just about bankrupt us in a month?

1039
01:27:54,880 --> 01:28:02,000
Like I had no idea, like what the consequences of the lifestyle that I was leading was, you know,

1040
01:28:02,000 --> 01:28:08,640
I could, I could feel the shame of, you know, just totally letting down my coworkers in the fire

1041
01:28:08,640 --> 01:28:14,000
service, you know, I could feel the shame of disappearing from my second job in the fitness

1042
01:28:14,000 --> 01:28:19,680
facility, writing some, you know, bullshit email that my mom was dying of cancer and I need a leave

1043
01:28:19,680 --> 01:28:25,040
of absence. I, I, I wasn't courageous enough in the beginning to tell the truth about, you know,

1044
01:28:25,040 --> 01:28:32,240
why I had to leave my second career, you know, so I'm just gonna, I was in a really, really rough spot and

1045
01:28:34,240 --> 01:28:41,040
I, I finally get out of treatment. I'm still, you know, that, that was at about the 75th day mark,

1046
01:28:41,600 --> 01:28:48,400
you know, I come back, I'm riding a desk in the north division on the same grounds of station two

1047
01:28:48,400 --> 01:28:54,800
that I screwed up so royally in. And when I want to go to get a cup of coffee, I've got to walk right

1048
01:28:54,800 --> 01:29:00,320
into the same firehouse. I'm seeing the same guys. All I can think in my head is they think I'm a

1049
01:29:00,320 --> 01:29:07,360
total piece of shit and a loser, you know, and what the fuck is this guy even doing here? And,

1050
01:29:08,400 --> 01:29:13,440
you know, then I'm back in the north division office and, and all day long battalion chiefs

1051
01:29:13,440 --> 01:29:18,720
are coming in to charge their CO monitors and I'm just saying, Hey, and they're like, Blasey,

1052
01:29:18,720 --> 01:29:22,800
what are you doing here? You know, or some of them knew what I was doing there and they're like,

1053
01:29:22,800 --> 01:29:30,960
you okay, man? So like the guilt, the shame that I was feeling here, it is again, boom, you know,

1054
01:29:30,960 --> 01:29:36,800
I am wrong. I am a defective human being. I'm not even worthy of this career. I shouldn't even be

1055
01:29:36,800 --> 01:29:42,960
here. Like I'm a total piece of shit. I've let my wife down. I've let my coworkers down. I've let

1056
01:29:42,960 --> 01:29:49,920
myself down, my parents, my extended family. You know, these things are starting to, it's starting

1057
01:29:49,920 --> 01:29:56,240
to come, the waves are just coming in the ripple effect of, you know, my, my lifestyle up to that

1058
01:29:56,240 --> 01:30:01,920
point is starting to come home. And man, it was overwhelming. And, you know, the only respite that

1059
01:30:01,920 --> 01:30:10,400
I could get was that schedule of being on, you know, five eights had me out of that office at

1060
01:30:10,400 --> 01:30:16,640
about four o'clock in the afternoon. And I made a five 30 a meeting every single day.

1061
01:30:18,080 --> 01:30:22,640
And I just started to hear those early messages of recovery. And, you know, these people had seen,

1062
01:30:22,640 --> 01:30:30,800
I had made very many, you know, I went to my first day meeting in 2003. I didn't, I didn't get the,

1063
01:30:30,800 --> 01:30:38,000
you know, the first step until 2017. So people knew me in the meetings and, you know, they, they were,

1064
01:30:38,000 --> 01:30:43,040
I was met with a lot of love and compassion, but I had none for myself.

1065
01:30:44,160 --> 01:30:48,880
Now, what about the sleep element? You go to this obviously horrendous withdrawal. And it's

1066
01:30:48,880 --> 01:30:57,120
interesting because I wonder how much of that, the bowel movement problems and the sleeplessness,

1067
01:30:57,840 --> 01:31:03,600
if you just, if you even remove the withdrawal, if that was just the sheer anxiety, the burnout

1068
01:31:03,600 --> 01:31:09,600
that was existing under the coping mechanism of the drugs and the alcohol too. But the one,

1069
01:31:09,600 --> 01:31:13,440
you know, the elephant in the room and the mental health conversation and the cancer conversation

1070
01:31:13,440 --> 01:31:19,440
and the hormonal disruption conversation is sleep deprivation, which is why I'm so dogmatic about

1071
01:31:19,440 --> 01:31:25,360
making the 24 72 an industry standard. I think if we want to actually make a difference in firefighter

1072
01:31:25,360 --> 01:31:30,400
health, this has to be a big part of the conversation. So what about simply being in your

1073
01:31:30,400 --> 01:31:33,920
own bed every night and the element of that on your healing?

1074
01:31:36,560 --> 01:31:45,760
It was nice. It was definitely nice. I found a very culturally competent psychiatrist in the

1075
01:31:45,760 --> 01:31:54,400
addiction field who put me on a low dose of some sleep medication, and he put me on a very low

1076
01:31:54,400 --> 01:32:04,800
dose of some SSRI to just try to re-stabilize, try to put my brain back together. My neurophysiology

1077
01:32:04,800 --> 01:32:11,360
was so out of whack. Now granted, I was manipulating that with substances, but you want to talk about

1078
01:32:11,360 --> 01:32:19,840
the lifestyle of a first responder and the 24 48 with overtime in between the sleep deprivation,

1079
01:32:19,840 --> 01:32:25,600
the continuous hypervigilant state, all of that. That totally changes your physiology. So what

1080
01:32:25,600 --> 01:32:30,320
came first, the chicken or the egg? Is it because I was on all these substances and separated from

1081
01:32:30,320 --> 01:32:39,120
them? Yeah, but yes, as what you're alluding to, true with all of the unintended consequences of

1082
01:32:39,120 --> 01:32:44,800
the career choice. Yeah, it made a difference being able to sleep again. You know, it took a

1083
01:32:44,800 --> 01:32:53,040
while to get there. Once I got there, it was definitely a relief. Just being on that five day

1084
01:32:53,040 --> 01:32:59,520
work week and not, you know, I wasn't ready to go back to shift, but that would come. That would

1085
01:32:59,520 --> 01:33:08,320
come and I'd go right back to station two, driving engine two. And I would come to find out that a

1086
01:33:08,320 --> 01:33:12,480
lot of that narrative that was in my head that these guys think I'm a total piece of shit, they

1087
01:33:12,480 --> 01:33:21,520
hate me that that wasn't true. But they definitely felt differently about me, you know, and, you

1088
01:33:21,520 --> 01:33:28,320
know, I was I was asked to, I was asked to move on, you know, to bid another firehouse, you know,

1089
01:33:28,320 --> 01:33:35,280
the same captain that had embraced me into his crew and wanted me to be, you know, his engineer,

1090
01:33:35,280 --> 01:33:40,400
he so lovingly put his arm around me and told me, Jason, listen, I think it's in your best

1091
01:33:40,400 --> 01:33:46,000
interest and everybody's here that that you find a new home. You know, and that was really

1092
01:33:46,000 --> 01:33:52,240
difficult to hear and feel and, and accept. But that was that was another thing where the hand of

1093
01:33:52,240 --> 01:33:57,280
God was on me again, and I couldn't see it, that I really couldn't get into this resiliency

1094
01:33:57,280 --> 01:34:03,680
lifestyle. If I was going to hop right back into the same mode of living that I was in,

1095
01:34:03,680 --> 01:34:09,520
sans drugs and alcohol, it wasn't going to be enough. Well, that's an important point, too,

1096
01:34:09,520 --> 01:34:14,400
because that that loss of tribe, you know, when when you are again, we talked about indigenous

1097
01:34:14,400 --> 01:34:19,600
people earlier, you are Steve the Inca, you know, and all of a sudden you're thrown out of your

1098
01:34:19,600 --> 01:34:25,040
tribe in the Amazon, you know, you are physiologically and psychologically vulnerable,

1099
01:34:25,040 --> 01:34:30,400
you know, then that's that's the same feeling. So where there's like, downright organizational

1100
01:34:30,400 --> 01:34:34,480
betrayal and first responder professions where people, you know, have literally been hurt on the

1101
01:34:34,480 --> 01:34:40,640
job, and then are excommunicated, that's so, so detrimental. But even as a crew, and I get it, I

1102
01:34:40,640 --> 01:34:44,880
mean, as you said, there's been several times now. So I know, I understand that there's a line for a

1103
01:34:44,880 --> 01:34:49,920
lot of people. But if you look at addiction, and you climb inside the head of everyone in that

1104
01:34:49,920 --> 01:34:56,000
firehouse, how many are actually dealing with their own addiction to, and that maybe just maybe

1105
01:34:56,000 --> 01:35:00,320
you're actually a reminder of what's going on in their head. And that's why they want you somewhere

1106
01:35:00,320 --> 01:35:05,120
else, you know what I mean? So we have to really be courageous and ask ourselves, you know,

1107
01:35:06,400 --> 01:35:11,200
this is this person just going through something because I am too. And you know, we've all heard

1108
01:35:11,200 --> 01:35:14,480
that, you know, I looked across the room, and everyone else seemed fine. Why am I the only

1109
01:35:14,480 --> 01:35:18,880
weak one? Why am I a piece of shit? But you climb inside everyone's head, they're thinking the exact

1110
01:35:18,880 --> 01:35:24,320
same thing. So a big paradigm shift in the fire service will be when we will be able to see the

1111
01:35:24,320 --> 01:35:29,120
fire service will be when we all pull our fucking masks on and say, I've been going through some

1112
01:35:29,120 --> 01:35:33,360
stuff, there'll be different degrees, of course, some will be crippled by alcoholism or opiate

1113
01:35:33,360 --> 01:35:39,440
addiction, some will just be lonely, whatever it is, but we've all got our own shit. And so the more

1114
01:35:39,440 --> 01:35:45,600
courageous we are about our own struggles, the more of a safe space, and I use that word deliberately,

1115
01:35:45,600 --> 01:35:50,640
because it's what it's supposed to be, that we can create around a firehouse table for everyone to

1116
01:35:50,640 --> 01:35:55,760
talk. So we don't have any of these, he's the last person I thought would have done that conversations

1117
01:35:55,760 --> 01:36:04,640
after one of our own passed away. Yeah. Yes. Yes. You know, again, it was all about, you know, the

1118
01:36:04,640 --> 01:36:12,160
shame and what I was feeling at that time. And you know, that that just takes a process to,

1119
01:36:12,160 --> 01:36:20,000
to heal from and become, you know, aware where where I can agree with everything that you just said.

1120
01:36:20,880 --> 01:36:30,560
You know, where where were we going with I lost my train of thought. So you talked about the 12 steps, so I'll add a segue then.

1121
01:36:30,560 --> 01:36:37,520
So talk to me about the realization of the importance of a group of peers. I'm not talking

1122
01:36:37,520 --> 01:36:43,840
about a peer support team, but having more than a single counselor, for example, or a meeting of

1123
01:36:43,840 --> 01:36:49,600
people that maybe don't understand your profession, and you know that obviously the creation of your

1124
01:36:49,600 --> 01:36:54,320
Phoenix group, but that that element I know is so, so important for your healing, which is why

1125
01:36:54,320 --> 01:37:03,120
obviously we're talking about it today. Yeah. So up to that point, you know, I had been participating

1126
01:37:03,120 --> 01:37:10,160
in my recovery, I did all 12 steps, I started to get everything that they said that I would in,

1127
01:37:11,680 --> 01:37:18,880
you know, in in the fellowship that I was participating in. But I knew that there was

1128
01:37:18,880 --> 01:37:27,440
another layer that comes with the first responder. You know, there was, you know, something that

1129
01:37:27,440 --> 01:37:35,760
I just felt inside that I needed to be with other people that wear the uniform that are that have

1130
01:37:35,760 --> 01:37:43,360
struggled with addiction and alcoholism. I just needed to reconcile that from inside.

1131
01:37:44,560 --> 01:37:49,840
You know, I wanted to talk to other people. I know I wasn't completely unique. You know, I knew I was

1132
01:37:49,840 --> 01:37:58,000
not the only guy. We've had multiple people die on my job because of their addiction. We have multiple

1133
01:37:58,000 --> 01:38:05,440
people in my 25 years that I've worked that have been fired because of their addiction and their

1134
01:38:05,440 --> 01:38:12,640
alcohol abuse. So I knew I wasn't unique. We had multiple people that have killed themselves in my

1135
01:38:12,640 --> 01:38:19,920
department. And I'm sure if we get to the all the circumstances involved, there's definitely substance

1136
01:38:19,920 --> 01:38:27,280
abuse somewhere in there. I knew I all of this was becoming so evident to me. And I wanted to,

1137
01:38:27,920 --> 01:38:34,800
I knew the therapeutic value of being in a community that identified as having issues with

1138
01:38:34,800 --> 01:38:41,680
this, I needed to have it in the fire service to I needed to have a I needed to speak with other

1139
01:38:41,680 --> 01:38:48,880
people that did the same job as me, because it makes us feel so unique. I needed to know that I

1140
01:38:48,880 --> 01:38:58,640
wasn't so unique. And and that's why I started to seek out other people on the job that I knew had

1141
01:38:58,640 --> 01:39:05,440
substance abuse issues and see if they'd be willing to get together and talk. You know, one of these

1142
01:39:05,440 --> 01:39:11,840
people I saw at a meeting, that's how that's how I knew to call them. You know, I saw I saw him at a

1143
01:39:11,840 --> 01:39:17,840
Narcotics Anonymous meeting and I sought that person out and then they led me to another person

1144
01:39:17,840 --> 01:39:25,280
and they led me to another person. And we decided to create this group. You know, and I felt so

1145
01:39:25,280 --> 01:39:31,360
strongly about it that I went to some people that I knew were in the Brotherhood Initiative for

1146
01:39:31,360 --> 01:39:40,320
for that works through the union. And I had a had a nice long cup of coffee with this guy. And we

1147
01:39:40,320 --> 01:39:46,640
started talking. And he was like, we absolutely need that. We need to start this group. So they

1148
01:39:46,640 --> 01:39:53,920
got involved. And they gave us a place where we could meet. And that's how it all started. You know,

1149
01:39:53,920 --> 01:39:58,960
a little over five years ago, we had our first meeting in the union hall in an office.

1150
01:39:58,960 --> 01:40:06,640
And we you know, we've since grown in membership. And you know, this journey of healing has been

1151
01:40:06,640 --> 01:40:14,240
taken to the next level. Because all of the things that that came to me from being in a 12 step

1152
01:40:14,240 --> 01:40:20,400
fellowship, I've taken to the next level by creating a fellowship of first responders.

1153
01:40:20,400 --> 01:40:28,560
You know, there's nothing more powerful than the connection of people that have the you know,

1154
01:40:28,560 --> 01:40:36,400
whatever the mental health issue is, that you're identifying with somebody that has it too. And

1155
01:40:36,400 --> 01:40:43,520
you don't have you're talking about pulling the mask off. I pull the mask off, I take the armor

1156
01:40:43,520 --> 01:40:51,040
off. And I sit there relaxed and I can be myself. You know, I've heard it expressed that we,

1157
01:40:51,040 --> 01:40:59,520
we come into whatever recovery we're coming into with an opinionated head, with a closed down heart

1158
01:40:59,520 --> 01:41:06,000
and a defended body. You know, where that's coming from, pride, ego, ignorance, whatever,

1159
01:41:06,000 --> 01:41:12,080
doesn't matter. I totally subscribe to that. I believe it's true. And I'm not going to lie.

1160
01:41:12,080 --> 01:41:23,200
I believe it's true. The disarming of all of that comes when you can be amongst your people.

1161
01:41:24,320 --> 01:41:31,680
You know, you talk about the tribe. Now I've got a tribe of, of a fireman that also identifies having

1162
01:41:32,320 --> 01:41:38,400
the negative coping mechanisms that I have, the negative strategies that happened in their life,

1163
01:41:38,400 --> 01:41:44,080
and now how they've turned it around and fixed their work life, their home life. You know,

1164
01:41:44,080 --> 01:41:50,720
they're participating in their community. They enjoy all the skills and talents and creativity

1165
01:41:50,720 --> 01:41:57,360
that they once had that they were putting aside for the job and, you know, and for their addiction

1166
01:41:57,360 --> 01:42:05,440
and you know, their inability to be able to cope positively. And we celebrate our victories and we

1167
01:42:05,440 --> 01:42:10,160
express our challenges. But like you said, the biggest, the biggest thing is I don't have to be

1168
01:42:10,160 --> 01:42:18,560
a bullshit artist. I don't have to be anybody but who I really am. Somebody that has fallen publicly

1169
01:42:18,560 --> 01:42:25,520
on the job. Not everybody has to do that to qualify for this. That's my story. And I think it

1170
01:42:25,520 --> 01:42:32,000
bring, it brought a lot with it. You know, it brought a lot with it for this guy. I needed

1171
01:42:32,000 --> 01:42:37,920
somebody else that I could say that to that could understand, that knows the feeling, the peer

1172
01:42:37,920 --> 01:42:46,320
pressure that we're under in the fire service, the expectations that we're under, the just somebody

1173
01:42:46,320 --> 01:42:54,080
that got it. Only another firefighter can get it. And I have that. And it's huge.

1174
01:42:54,960 --> 01:43:00,640
What's interesting about when you get us in a room, it makes me think about, there's a documentary,

1175
01:43:00,640 --> 01:43:05,600
it was the History Channel, I think that did it originally, or the National Burn Foundation,

1176
01:43:05,600 --> 01:43:12,080
I think before that. But it was called Into the Fire. And it followed some volunteers, some paid

1177
01:43:12,080 --> 01:43:17,040
on call, some career firefighters. A great, great documentary. And I'll never forget there was a

1178
01:43:17,040 --> 01:43:22,080
volunteer, you know, they were doing the like the chicken dinners to raise money to buy a fire engine

1179
01:43:22,080 --> 01:43:28,560
in their little township. But this guy said, I forget how he phrased it, but paraphrasing, he said,

1180
01:43:28,560 --> 01:43:35,680
every single day, firefighters, you know, will make entry over a threshold of a home or a building,

1181
01:43:36,560 --> 01:43:40,960
over and over again, he said, once in a while, they'll find a baby or a person and they'll,

1182
01:43:40,960 --> 01:43:45,600
you know, be on the front of the paper. He said, but every single time you make entry in a fire,

1183
01:43:46,320 --> 01:43:50,800
you are taking the same exact risk than all the other, you know, thousands that day, you know,

1184
01:43:50,800 --> 01:43:56,400
tens of thousands. And so I think when you put us in a room, and because I see obviously on

1185
01:43:56,400 --> 01:44:00,480
Instagram, a lot of these guys that, you know, have their leather helmets and mustaches and,

1186
01:44:00,480 --> 01:44:05,120
you know, leaning on their pike pole in front of a burned out house, you know, like I am a firefighter,

1187
01:44:05,120 --> 01:44:10,960
and let me remind you a 911. But when you say it to another firefighter, it's like, well, who

1188
01:44:10,960 --> 01:44:17,600
fucking cares? I'm a firefighter too. You know, so it does take away that level of, you know, that

1189
01:44:17,600 --> 01:44:22,800
facade of this is my identity, because like, you're not, mate, because I am too. And I'm totally

1190
01:44:22,800 --> 01:44:27,360
unimpressed by my own career. So if you sit around with a group of firefighters, none of them are

1191
01:44:27,360 --> 01:44:31,440
impressed by you being a firefighter. So it's almost like it's the Trump card, you know what I

1192
01:44:31,440 --> 01:44:36,480
mean? It negates that whole thing. If you go to a 12 step program, a bunch of civilians, they may,

1193
01:44:36,480 --> 01:44:41,760
Oh God, you must have seen some horrible stuff. But if you're with a group of peers, it literally,

1194
01:44:41,760 --> 01:44:46,720
you can't use that card anymore. Yeah, it's what you do. And we all understand what comes with the

1195
01:44:46,720 --> 01:44:52,160
job, but you can't behind hide behind that leather mask and the stuff. And so I think

1196
01:44:52,160 --> 01:44:57,680
that's what's interesting is really what we've done by creating peers, peer support teams,

1197
01:44:57,680 --> 01:45:04,080
is you've removed, you've pulled away the very thing that you are hiding behind, because

1198
01:45:04,080 --> 01:45:06,080
everyone else is that thing.

1199
01:45:08,080 --> 01:45:14,480
Yeah, you can be authentic. You know, and that's really what we want. And then you get the love and

1200
01:45:14,480 --> 01:45:18,800
the belonging, you know, which is, which is what we're all craving.

1201
01:45:18,800 --> 01:45:25,760
That's not just a touchy feely statement. That's just truth. I, you know, that's, that's

1202
01:45:25,760 --> 01:45:31,200
inherent in everybody. You know, why are we, why do we, you know, gravitate to the battalions that

1203
01:45:31,200 --> 01:45:36,880
we gravitate to? Why do we stay in certain firehouses for long segments in the career?

1204
01:45:36,880 --> 01:45:43,200
Because we find the love and belonging that we need. You know, I need to be with like minded

1205
01:45:43,200 --> 01:45:48,000
people that are, you know, thinking and behaving the way that I am. Well, that's how the resiliency

1206
01:45:48,000 --> 01:45:54,640
lifestyle has to be, you know, played out. We have to be around other people that are living it too,

1207
01:45:55,200 --> 01:46:00,480
so that we can, you know, get real about it and help each other participate in it. Because this

1208
01:46:00,480 --> 01:46:05,440
is life and death. You know, for me to go back to the lifestyle that I was leading before,

1209
01:46:05,440 --> 01:46:09,840
it's only going to take me to three places, you know, jail, another, another, another,

1210
01:46:09,840 --> 01:46:16,160
treatment center, or death, you know, and, and as I tried to express earlier, what I felt physically

1211
01:46:16,160 --> 01:46:22,080
this last time I was separated from drugs and alcohol, like I, now I get it. I get how people die.

1212
01:46:23,520 --> 01:46:28,400
You know, it's the, the compassion that I didn't use to have for that addict on the street.

1213
01:46:28,400 --> 01:46:34,720
I totally understand now, you know, that desperate addict, you know, that I used to say was just a

1214
01:46:34,720 --> 01:46:40,240
piece of shit, an impediment to my day. Why do we have to, you know, Narcan him and bring him back

1215
01:46:40,240 --> 01:46:45,200
again? Now I realize like, there's no difference between that guy and me. He's just further into it

1216
01:46:46,080 --> 01:46:53,360
without someone taking them and bringing them into the light. You know, now granted, there could be,

1217
01:46:54,160 --> 01:47:00,400
there could be, you know, total mental illness issues that, you know, untreated, that doesn't

1218
01:47:00,400 --> 01:47:06,080
allow them to participate in the recovery lifestyle, you know, that I'm not going to get

1219
01:47:06,080 --> 01:47:14,480
into all of that, but just where I can draw that parallel. And that, you know, but you know, we go

1220
01:47:14,480 --> 01:47:19,680
back to just the power of the group, what we're able to do together, I can't do by myself. It's

1221
01:47:19,680 --> 01:47:26,720
the same thing on a fire scene, you know, somebody cannot drive the truck up, put it in pump, stretch

1222
01:47:26,720 --> 01:47:34,960
the line, force the door, you know, advance in, find the fire, put it out, overhaul, you know,

1223
01:47:34,960 --> 01:47:42,000
we need a, we need a crew, you know, and that's what I found is I've got to, I have a resiliency

1224
01:47:42,000 --> 01:47:49,120
lifestyle crew now that I don't do anything alone anymore. You know, I'm not just left with

1225
01:47:49,120 --> 01:47:54,880
what Jason Blasey thinks about every last aspect of his life. I have to be able to do that.

1226
01:47:54,880 --> 01:48:00,560
Every last aspect of his life, I have, I have friends and mentors and people that love me and

1227
01:48:00,560 --> 01:48:05,920
I love them that, that I bounce, you know, a lot of the things that are going on in my life.

1228
01:48:05,920 --> 01:48:12,720
This may come natural to other people, but for me, it didn't, you know, and I don't think we really

1229
01:48:12,720 --> 01:48:18,800
support that in our, in our culture. You know, we use that as a, as a sign of weakness or,

1230
01:48:18,800 --> 01:48:26,800
you know, you're, you're, you're getting soft on me, you know, but I know it's not true.

1231
01:48:27,680 --> 01:48:33,200
You know, I know it's not true. I'm living the benefits of being vulnerable. I'm living the

1232
01:48:33,200 --> 01:48:39,200
benefits of, of taking the mask off, taking the armor off. You know, the Phoenix group has allowed

1233
01:48:39,200 --> 01:48:48,960
me to do that in the presence of other firefighters. And, you know, the, the myths of, well, I worked

1234
01:48:48,960 --> 01:48:55,520
in this battalion and we ran this many fires and this many calls. So you don't know, you know,

1235
01:48:56,320 --> 01:49:02,720
we think that we're better than the battalions across town. And, but really we all do the same

1236
01:49:02,720 --> 01:49:09,200
thing. And we're all, we're all not, we're all the same, but we have, like I said, love and belonging

1237
01:49:09,200 --> 01:49:16,400
is an irreducible need of everybody, you know? And when you add the layer of, I've come to the

1238
01:49:16,400 --> 01:49:22,560
understanding that some of the unintended consequences of this career choice are, are

1239
01:49:22,560 --> 01:49:30,640
changing my life for the worse and I better get on them before my life gets really bad. Or I want to

1240
01:49:30,640 --> 01:49:38,240
put a gun in my mouth or thinking that that's, that's an option. You know, I need to find my

1241
01:49:38,240 --> 01:49:44,480
tribe and get together with them and get real. And in doing that, I've dispelled that whole myth,

1242
01:49:45,600 --> 01:49:51,920
you know, and, and I've gained humility. That's one of the greatest things too is it's wonderful

1243
01:49:51,920 --> 01:50:00,000
that I experienced the 20 runs a day and the intense training and trying to be ready for every

1244
01:50:00,000 --> 01:50:08,080
scenario and a lot of pride on the job. I'm, I am so grateful for that. I have the humility now that

1245
01:50:08,080 --> 01:50:13,680
that doesn't make me any better than the guy across town that's only running two calls a day

1246
01:50:14,560 --> 01:50:20,400
and, you know, doesn't have his own website and, you know, doesn't have his own monogram halogen.

1247
01:50:21,040 --> 01:50:27,120
And it doesn't make me any better. We're just, we're both human beings on that chose this career

1248
01:50:27,120 --> 01:50:34,480
path and we should support each other regardless. You know, and I never thought that would come out

1249
01:50:34,480 --> 01:50:39,520
of my mouth. I was the first guy to sit and character assassinate and talk shit about people

1250
01:50:40,160 --> 01:50:45,840
at the, at the dinner table. I was the ringleader of those conversations because that made me feel

1251
01:50:45,840 --> 01:50:54,160
superior. I wanted to feel like I was better. I needed that I, for whatever reason, you know,

1252
01:50:54,160 --> 01:50:59,600
and, you know, part of it was that was, it was like the gang mentality in the firehouse.

1253
01:50:59,600 --> 01:51:03,680
You know, who's the new, who's the new guy that screwed up? Well, you know what?

1254
01:51:03,680 --> 01:51:08,080
Then eventually I became the guy that screwed up that they were all saying that guy's a piece

1255
01:51:08,080 --> 01:51:14,400
of shit. Can you believe that fucking idiot did this? You know, and he was no good anyway.

1256
01:51:14,400 --> 01:51:21,360
Whatever the hell they were, you know, that we, I, I saw that I was not exempt from, from that

1257
01:51:21,360 --> 01:51:27,600
conversation. So that humility that I gained just, that totally changed my perspective and to,

1258
01:51:27,600 --> 01:51:35,280
to see other accomplished, hardworking, well-meaning firefighters in my department and other

1259
01:51:35,280 --> 01:51:41,280
departments that have gone through the same thing and to talk openly and honestly about that,

1260
01:51:43,120 --> 01:51:48,400
there's nothing more powerful than that. There's nothing more healing than that. That gets me to

1261
01:51:48,400 --> 01:51:57,040
that place where life is, life is good. Life is okay. You know, I, and, and, and it's just been,

1262
01:51:57,760 --> 01:52:03,280
it's been incredible. You talked about, you know, say that guy's a piece of shit. I used to hate

1263
01:52:03,280 --> 01:52:08,800
the word bum as well. I wrote about it in my first book when I first got the hi alia. Shit bird is a

1264
01:52:08,800 --> 01:52:16,800
big one that we use, but here's the thing. So I would argue if you are that person, take a look

1265
01:52:16,800 --> 01:52:21,120
in the mirror and ask yourself why you're having such an extreme reaction. And I'll give you an

1266
01:52:21,120 --> 01:52:28,480
example. How many outwardly anti-gay, you know, homophobic leaders have been out there that we

1267
01:52:28,480 --> 01:52:33,440
discovered they themselves were, were homosexual. You know what I mean? Is there something in your

1268
01:52:33,440 --> 01:52:41,200
past that's making you have such a, an unempathetic, you know, uh, aggressive reaction to a homeless

1269
01:52:41,200 --> 01:52:47,520
person, an addict, whatever it is, because this is what's, what's even more fucking ironic slash

1270
01:52:47,520 --> 01:52:53,120
nauseating as a lot of these people come out of holy buildings on certain days of the week

1271
01:52:53,120 --> 01:52:58,000
after being told about love and inclusion and community and compassion. And then they treat

1272
01:52:58,000 --> 01:53:04,160
people like that. So if you are, you know, having these kinds of reactions, if you look at someone

1273
01:53:04,160 --> 01:53:10,240
whose life has taken them to living under a bridge and the best you can do is roll your eyes. Cause

1274
01:53:10,240 --> 01:53:14,400
they've inconvenienced your Jerry Springer binge watching and you had to run a call on them.

1275
01:53:14,960 --> 01:53:19,040
Maybe just maybe you need to look in the fucking mirror because you've got some shit going on

1276
01:53:19,040 --> 01:53:25,040
between your own ears. Yeah. I mean, you know, that whole spot it, you got it kind of thing.

1277
01:53:25,600 --> 01:53:34,400
I get it. Um, someone said this the other day and I think it's very profound. Uh, the ego is the

1278
01:53:34,400 --> 01:53:42,400
loudest voice and it's the first one to talk, you know, and that it's that protective mechanism that

1279
01:53:42,400 --> 01:53:51,120
stops me from having to feel compassion, empathy, any kind of self reflection that I identify with

1280
01:53:51,120 --> 01:53:57,200
what I'm looking at. That's very uncomfortable to look at, hear about, you know, it's a defense

1281
01:53:57,200 --> 01:54:05,840
mechanism. Um, until you actually go out there and do it, it's all uncharted territory. That's met

1282
01:54:05,840 --> 01:54:13,520
again with the egos coming up and trying to answer that question without having to experience it.

1283
01:54:13,520 --> 01:54:18,640
And, um, our, our culture's full of that, you know, it's,

1284
01:54:18,640 --> 01:54:23,840
and the fear of being met with the, the fear of being in those conversations and then being

1285
01:54:23,840 --> 01:54:31,280
uncomfortable, whether it's fear or a lack of interest, uh, doesn't think it's important.

1286
01:54:34,640 --> 01:54:39,280
Then we have a suicide of a really accomplished guy on our job. And then we all start saying,

1287
01:54:39,280 --> 01:54:42,800
wow, you know what, maybe these conversations are the ones we should be having.

1288
01:54:42,800 --> 01:54:49,920
And we get passionate about that for a while. And then it starts to dissipate,

1289
01:54:50,720 --> 01:54:56,800
you know, and that's where we are present day right now in my, in my fire department.

1290
01:54:57,520 --> 01:55:03,200
And it's going to take us getting into uncomfortable positions and conversations and

1291
01:55:03,200 --> 01:55:09,360
following through with what we discover in those conversations to get to know each other.

1292
01:55:09,360 --> 01:55:17,280
And that's what we discover in those conversations to get to change the culture in our fire service,

1293
01:55:17,280 --> 01:55:22,720
which is not going to make us less of a fire service. It's only going to make us a better

1294
01:55:22,720 --> 01:55:28,960
fire service. You know, it's not going to change your ability to handle anything. It's just going

1295
01:55:28,960 --> 01:55:37,520
to give you a more complete, um, a more complete firefighter, you know, more complete human being.

1296
01:55:37,520 --> 01:55:41,360
They're a firefighter. This is, this is the thing that I don't hear a lot of the, you know,

1297
01:55:41,360 --> 01:55:46,800
the halogen thumpers out there is this needs to be part of the conversation. Your favorite

1298
01:55:46,800 --> 01:55:52,560
sports athletes have sports psychologists because you cannot get close to the flow state.

1299
01:55:52,560 --> 01:55:57,760
If your mind is, is a fucking tornado. So, you know, whether it's navigate in the rig to the

1300
01:55:57,760 --> 01:56:02,880
call, whether it's doing a right-hand search and, you know, a fricking interior, this confusing the

1301
01:56:02,880 --> 01:56:08,640
shit out of you, you know, you've got to have that clear mind. So if you are the leather helmet,

1302
01:56:08,640 --> 01:56:14,320
mustache wearing Instagram, you know, narcissist for lack of a better word, then this also needs

1303
01:56:14,320 --> 01:56:18,320
to be part of your culture. If you want to be the world's best firefighter, which you're clearly

1304
01:56:18,320 --> 01:56:24,240
trying to convince us all that you are, where is the mental side? This needs to be parallel.

1305
01:56:24,240 --> 01:56:29,360
Every other high performer includes psychology in their performance, but the fire service is like,

1306
01:56:29,360 --> 01:56:34,720
well, we'll, we'll just let you sleep three nights, excuse me, three nights a week. Don't worry about

1307
01:56:34,720 --> 01:56:38,960
psychology. Don't worry about breath control, even though the only air on the planet earth you've got

1308
01:56:38,960 --> 01:56:44,480
access to is strapped to your back. Just take a big breath, you know, in you go, get the job done

1309
01:56:44,480 --> 01:56:49,920
and come out. It's absolute fucking bullshit. So if you really want to be the best version of yourself

1310
01:56:49,920 --> 01:56:54,880
as a firefighter, as a police officer, as a paramedic, then your mental health is absolutely

1311
01:56:54,880 --> 01:57:01,920
part of that pie chart. So if we start to make these normalize these conversations like you and

1312
01:57:01,920 --> 01:57:09,760
I are having, and then the right personalities come out and, and openly speak about it,

1313
01:57:12,960 --> 01:57:18,800
and we can normalize this, then, then we can start to change it. You know, it just,

1314
01:57:18,800 --> 01:57:24,640
this is the beginning, you know, this is the beginning, having people come out and speak

1315
01:57:24,640 --> 01:57:30,720
openly about it, that, you know, you're going to need, you're going to need guys and gals that have

1316
01:57:30,720 --> 01:57:36,800
street cred, you know, on the job that can come out and say, you know, once I started to

1317
01:57:38,080 --> 01:57:47,120
investigate my, my emotional well being, I started to see the, the benefits of my

1318
01:57:47,120 --> 01:57:53,760
the benefits of my physical and work life getting better. You know, once I started to deal with my

1319
01:57:53,760 --> 01:57:59,760
spiritual well being, I could see the benefits on the job. Once I started to handle my mental

1320
01:57:59,760 --> 01:58:09,280
health challenges, you know, I saw this benefit in my job and the way I handle my job and the

1321
01:58:09,280 --> 01:58:14,720
way I handle my family and all the relationships in my life. And it's just, it's about getting

1322
01:58:14,720 --> 01:58:20,560
the resilient people that have been through it already to come out and speak openly. And then

1323
01:58:20,560 --> 01:58:25,760
the ones that are on the fence about whether they should or not, maybe they'll get inspired.

1324
01:58:26,320 --> 01:58:32,400
And the ones that are starting to see that they, they qualify for the help, because they're hearing

1325
01:58:32,400 --> 01:58:37,360
what the symptoms are, you know, from a live person, they're not just reading it off of a

1326
01:58:37,360 --> 01:58:45,840
a sheet, you know, you know, they, they identify with story, you know, when you, you know, somebody's

1327
01:58:45,840 --> 01:58:50,720
going to hear my story and identify, yes, I know what it's like to drink beer and go into work.

1328
01:58:50,720 --> 01:58:56,080
I know what it's like to be strung out on opiates and go to work, you know, they're going to hear

1329
01:58:56,080 --> 01:59:02,080
that and wow, this guy actually came back from that. You know, I know what it's like to be let go,

1330
01:59:02,080 --> 01:59:07,680
you know, be told I need to leave my station and go somewhere else. You know, I know what it's like

1331
01:59:07,680 --> 01:59:14,880
to feel like I think everybody thinks I'm a piece of shit, but you know, I know that I'm not. And

1332
01:59:15,920 --> 01:59:22,480
it's, that's what it's going to take, you know, it's going to, what did they say? We, you know,

1333
01:59:22,480 --> 01:59:32,480
we can only change a culture by a single act of defiance over and over, you know, it's going to

1334
01:59:32,480 --> 01:59:41,280
take multiple single acts of defiance against the cultural norm of shouting it down, denying it,

1335
01:59:42,560 --> 01:59:46,640
you know, it's going to take a courageous individual to go, no, man, what, what's really

1336
01:59:46,640 --> 01:59:55,440
the harm in talking honestly and openly about how you feel, you know, and, and I'll just use this

1337
01:59:55,440 --> 02:00:04,000
example that the, the, you know, the guy who just killed himself on our job, you know, though I

1338
02:00:04,000 --> 02:00:11,280
didn't know him personally, knowing the, the bureau that he was involved in, okay. And hearing the

1339
02:00:11,280 --> 02:00:23,200
stories of how much pride he had in his performance on the job. Okay. I can imagine that if he had

1340
02:00:23,200 --> 02:00:37,520
found the same people that were doing high performance, I want to say this so intelligently

1341
02:00:37,520 --> 02:00:42,880
before I even say it, sorry, cause it's a, I really feel strongly about this.

1342
02:00:45,040 --> 02:00:53,280
If this person had found his people that he could have taken his mask off with and unloaded his

1343
02:00:53,280 --> 02:01:01,600
armor at the door and sat down and talked honestly and openly about what he was feeling, whatever was

1344
02:01:01,600 --> 02:01:08,240
bothering him about his personal life, his work life, and he could get honest and open and authentic

1345
02:01:08,240 --> 02:01:14,400
about it. I believe that man would be here today. That's what I truly honestly believe. I think the

1346
02:01:14,400 --> 02:01:22,320
therapeutic value of one alike is without parallel. That is the thing that turns the, that turns the

1347
02:01:22,320 --> 02:01:29,120
lock and opens the door for all the healing, you know, and then all the other modalities that go

1348
02:01:29,120 --> 02:01:36,320
along for whichever mental health struggle you're having. I totally say that's part of the resiliency

1349
02:01:36,320 --> 02:01:43,840
lifestyle in participating in it, but a huge piece of it is to have that community that you can be

1350
02:01:43,840 --> 02:01:50,160
yourself, you know, that you can create that connection, that you can create that belonging,

1351
02:01:50,160 --> 02:01:56,800
that you can experience that love, you know, that is the difference maker. That's been the

1352
02:01:56,800 --> 02:02:05,680
difference maker for me, you know, and though I didn't have a plan to carry out a suicide,

1353
02:02:05,680 --> 02:02:12,480
I thought about it. I totally thought my family would be way better off if I wasn't here,

1354
02:02:13,360 --> 02:02:18,480
and how am I ever going to face these guys at work again? I'm never going to re-, I will never ever

1355
02:02:18,480 --> 02:02:25,680
be able to make myself worthy of some of the things that I already experienced because of what I did,

1356
02:02:25,680 --> 02:02:33,200
you know, and I could imagine that message becoming the dominating message in my narrative

1357
02:02:34,000 --> 02:02:39,040
and that becoming overwhelming and the pain of that, having nowhere to let that out,

1358
02:02:39,040 --> 02:02:47,040
having no one that I think could really understand how, how awful that could be, how, how, how that

1359
02:02:47,040 --> 02:02:52,400
makes you want to just end it all. So, whether it comes through a culturally competent therapist

1360
02:02:52,400 --> 02:02:58,160
in the beginning or you wind up creating your own group, you find somebody, a co-worker,

1361
02:02:58,160 --> 02:03:05,520
that you can unload with, however it starts, I know that that therapeutic value of one alike

1362
02:03:05,520 --> 02:03:10,960
is without parallel. There's nothing that matches it. I'm living proof. I'm experiencing it,

1363
02:03:12,400 --> 02:03:17,920
and that's, you know, that's the message. I want to just throw one thing at you and then we'll talk

1364
02:03:17,920 --> 02:03:22,080
about where people can find the group and reach out to you if they want to, you know,

1365
02:03:22,080 --> 02:03:27,360
if they want to create their own. But someone asked me today, it was somebody who works in

1366
02:03:27,360 --> 02:03:31,200
law enforcement predominantly in the mental health side, and they were asking about the stigma.

1367
02:03:32,160 --> 02:03:36,720
And she said she was at a, I forget, it was actually a class or, or at a conference, but,

1368
02:03:36,720 --> 02:03:41,040
you know, how many people, you know, have struggled with their mental health and only,

1369
02:03:41,600 --> 02:03:46,480
only 25% went up. How many people know someone else who is in like 100% of the hands went up?

1370
02:03:46,480 --> 02:03:49,680
And she was saying, is there still a lot of stigma? I'm like, I don't think there's stigma

1371
02:03:49,680 --> 02:03:54,240
about the mental health conversation, apart from pockets, of course, tend to be older dudes,

1372
02:03:55,360 --> 02:04:00,080
and women as well. But what I said, where there's really stigma still is the addiction

1373
02:04:00,080 --> 02:04:05,600
conversation. I don't know why that's separated, but I've lost three firefighters to opioids alone,

1374
02:04:05,600 --> 02:04:10,640
overdoses. That's just, you know, locally, people I work with, you know, that's not to mention all

1375
02:04:10,640 --> 02:04:17,200
the, you know, the alcohol related deaths. And so, you know, I think there's the stigma, we've got

1376
02:04:17,200 --> 02:04:23,360
to really look and expand our lens to addiction as a whole. So mental health, you know, obviously,

1377
02:04:23,360 --> 02:04:30,320
the suicide element, but also the addiction side too. But where we've got stuck is stigma.

1378
02:04:30,320 --> 02:04:35,360
We've smashed the stigma air quotes, but what next? You know what I mean? And even like you said,

1379
02:04:35,360 --> 02:04:42,240
with the group, that's a peer group, that's an incredible next step. But then as you mentioned,

1380
02:04:42,240 --> 02:04:46,480
then that leads to the healing modalities. You know, what was going to work for you is it's

1381
02:04:46,480 --> 02:04:51,280
taught therapy, you're going to need a little, you know, prescription meds to kind of help create a

1382
02:04:51,280 --> 02:04:55,680
bridge to your healing. You know, is it going to be psychedelic? Yeah, I mean, all these different

1383
02:04:55,680 --> 02:05:02,480
things. Yeah. So, but what I wanted to underline was though, and you're living proof of this now,

1384
02:05:03,040 --> 02:05:09,040
you don't hear the post-traumatic growth message. And you will use the word resilience many times.

1385
02:05:09,040 --> 02:05:14,400
To me, that is resilience. It's not about doing a fire maze while they're playing loud music at you

1386
02:05:14,400 --> 02:05:21,200
and banging on the wood, saying the baby's dying. You process your struggles, that becomes resilience.

1387
02:05:21,200 --> 02:05:25,840
So when you hear people like yourself and so many other people that come on the show,

1388
02:05:26,640 --> 02:05:31,200
that are now a beacon of light for others. And it's not to say that it's not a struggle still,

1389
02:05:31,200 --> 02:05:35,920
of course, but you've come out the other end. And I would argue that you are a better version of

1390
02:05:35,920 --> 02:05:40,880
yourself now than you were before. So just talk to me about that concept. Because I think that's the

1391
02:05:40,880 --> 02:05:46,800
hope. That's the excitement of going through the crucible of treatment is the other side.

1392
02:05:47,520 --> 02:05:51,040
Maybe you're able, you know, your marriage has actually come together again. You're starting

1393
02:05:51,040 --> 02:05:55,920
to gain trust with your children, your coworkers. Maybe you transition out the fire service and you

1394
02:05:55,920 --> 02:06:01,440
do something else that you also love. So talk to me about the hope of post-traumatic growth and

1395
02:06:01,440 --> 02:06:09,200
resilience. Oh, my goodness. So much there. And everything you said is true. All that is happening.

1396
02:06:09,200 --> 02:06:17,280
But the first thing is, what if we looked at people having substance abuse issues on the job

1397
02:06:17,280 --> 02:06:24,240
as a negative coping mechanism? What if that was the definition of it? That we were speaking out

1398
02:06:24,240 --> 02:06:31,760
loud instead of it's a moral failing, they don't have enough character, they're a scumbag, they're

1399
02:06:31,760 --> 02:06:39,280
fucking lazy, they're a piece of shit. No, this guy's dealing with the unintended consequences of

1400
02:06:39,280 --> 02:06:53,280
this job that we all face of sleep deprivation, moral injury, like you said, organizational

1401
02:06:53,280 --> 02:07:00,480
betrayal, just the resentments that come with working for a department. And they're not getting

1402
02:07:00,480 --> 02:07:08,720
us the right equipment or the administration doesn't understand the line, all of that,

1403
02:07:08,720 --> 02:07:14,080
like dealing with that. What if all those unintended consequences that come with the career

1404
02:07:14,080 --> 02:07:20,000
choice, that we looked at someone who winds up having a substance abuse issue, that this is a

1405
02:07:20,000 --> 02:07:28,400
negative coping mechanism to those things. He doesn't love the job enough, he's not fit for duty,

1406
02:07:28,400 --> 02:07:35,440
all those things. If that became one of the options that how we could describe this person

1407
02:07:35,440 --> 02:07:43,280
and the situation, that would be a great start. I think that would change things huge.

1408
02:07:47,600 --> 02:07:51,200
And then you're talking about the post-traumatic growth. I mean,

1409
02:07:51,200 --> 02:08:03,280
it starts with the awareness of that certain things need to be changed.

1410
02:08:08,800 --> 02:08:13,520
And then it just opens up a whole world to that person. But

1411
02:08:13,520 --> 02:08:19,040
bring me back, I kind of got lost in it.

1412
02:08:19,040 --> 02:08:21,360
That's okay. So as you sit here now,

1413
02:08:21,360 --> 02:08:26,320
It's so much more back there, but bring me back into it because I have a lot to say, I'm sure.

1414
02:08:26,320 --> 02:08:33,840
No problem. As you sit here now versus the Jason that was struggling 10, 15 years ago,

1415
02:08:34,480 --> 02:08:39,600
talk to me about the version of yourself. I mean, you mentioned, for example, 40 pounds heavier,

1416
02:08:39,600 --> 02:08:42,320
I'm looking at you now, I'm assuming you're not carrying that weight anymore.

1417
02:08:42,320 --> 02:08:47,280
The fact that you're still married to your beautiful wife, that. So talk to me about

1418
02:08:47,280 --> 02:08:53,040
the growth, the resilience, the better version of yourself and your life now having done the work

1419
02:08:53,040 --> 02:08:58,240
and finally found that perfect, or the perfect is the wrong word, that right combination of

1420
02:08:58,240 --> 02:09:06,480
treatment modalities that work for you specifically. Okay. So I had said this earlier,

1421
02:09:06,480 --> 02:09:12,400
one of the greatest things that happened for me from going through 12 step work was it was able,

1422
02:09:12,400 --> 02:09:21,440
it got me to a place where I was able to take responsibility for my life, all of it,

1423
02:09:22,240 --> 02:09:32,320
and not just default to the shameful message or the ego response of trying to

1424
02:09:32,320 --> 02:09:38,480
absolve myself of the responsibility. It disarmed me and that changed the way that I handle my

1425
02:09:38,480 --> 02:09:48,320
relationships with other people. I was able to see the way that I was not treating the people that

1426
02:09:48,320 --> 02:09:56,400
I say I love and that I want to have a good solid relationship with, I could see where I wasn't

1427
02:09:56,400 --> 02:10:05,520
capable of doing that, where I was falling short and that awareness wanting to really follow through

1428
02:10:05,520 --> 02:10:09,920
with having those real relationships in my life, which I think we all want again, we want connection,

1429
02:10:09,920 --> 02:10:13,440
we want love, we want belonging. Well, there were changes that I had to be made

1430
02:10:15,280 --> 02:10:25,520
and it just showed me the changes that needed to be made to just follow the path that I was taking

1431
02:10:25,520 --> 02:10:34,800
to just follow through with what I, to be congruent, to follow through with it with what it is that I say

1432
02:10:34,800 --> 02:10:42,640
I'm going to do and do it. Treat the people in my world the way I would want to be treated.

1433
02:10:44,320 --> 02:10:52,480
That was one of the beginning things. It also helped me get to a level of acceptance of things

1434
02:10:52,480 --> 02:10:59,760
that I never had before. I had no acceptance in my life. If I wasn't happy, satisfied with something,

1435
02:10:59,760 --> 02:11:07,280
I had to really come out against it or I had to try to influence the environment around me to

1436
02:11:07,280 --> 02:11:13,120
shape things back to something that I could understand and deal with and accept. There's

1437
02:11:13,120 --> 02:11:21,120
been a component of having a power greater than myself in my life that allows me to accept that

1438
02:11:21,120 --> 02:11:28,400
everything is exactly the way that it's supposed to be and that I can allow people, places,

1439
02:11:28,400 --> 02:11:38,240
and things to be just what they are. It's given me boundaries. I have boundaries in my relationships

1440
02:11:38,240 --> 02:11:45,600
today at work, at home, and I allow people to have boundaries with me and enforce them like gentle

1441
02:11:45,600 --> 02:11:50,400
men and gentle women. That's the thing is I can have these boundaries in my life, but how do I

1442
02:11:50,400 --> 02:11:57,360
enforce them? That's been a huge piece. I grew up in a family of no boundaries.

1443
02:11:59,360 --> 02:12:08,960
So these are new skills that I'm employing. The acceptance, the having boundaries, the humility,

1444
02:12:09,840 --> 02:12:15,440
that I'm no greater than, I'm no less than, I'm just another guy who wears the uniform,

1445
02:12:15,440 --> 02:12:21,200
who loves the job. I'm another man who has children. I'm another husband. I'm another guy

1446
02:12:21,200 --> 02:12:30,880
in the community and everybody doesn't need to know all the stuff that I bring out into the world.

1447
02:12:30,880 --> 02:12:36,800
It's just I can accept you for who you are and me for who I am and if we're going to have a

1448
02:12:36,800 --> 02:12:44,640
relationship, we're going to treat each other like real human beings and try to have something

1449
02:12:44,640 --> 02:12:51,120
that has boundaries and respect. I don't have to do that with every last person that I meet.

1450
02:12:51,120 --> 02:13:02,800
It's the ones that I want to have close to me. Then it's the mental, physical, and spiritual life.

1451
02:13:02,800 --> 02:13:13,200
I have to treat certain emotional deformities that I have with a therapist, with a therapist,

1452
02:13:13,200 --> 02:13:21,840
with my group of people that I identify as having those issues that I found in the Phoenix group,

1453
02:13:21,840 --> 02:13:27,040
our addiction piece that we were able to talk about honestly and openly.

1454
02:13:29,040 --> 02:13:38,000
For me, I'm off of all of my medications, but when medication was suggested, I took it.

1455
02:13:38,000 --> 02:13:48,720
If that's part of the post-traumatic growth lifestyle, we do it. I started with that and

1456
02:13:48,720 --> 02:13:57,920
then I was able to, with the help of an addiction psychiatrist, work my way off of all of that stuff.

1457
02:13:57,920 --> 02:14:03,600
At the same time, I was going to a culturally competent therapist and all three of us were

1458
02:14:03,600 --> 02:14:12,960
talking. We had an open, honest relationship about where Jason was in his journey. Now, today,

1459
02:14:12,960 --> 02:14:19,600
I take nothing, maybe a little melatonin to go to bed. The spiritual component was huge.

1460
02:14:20,880 --> 02:14:28,800
I needed to grab on to something greater than myself, and I've come to understand that that's

1461
02:14:28,800 --> 02:14:36,720
a loving God for me, whether it's the universe for somebody, chi, whatever it is, but I cannot

1462
02:14:36,720 --> 02:14:41,360
be the center of my own universe. I don't make the sunset arise. I don't make the tide come in

1463
02:14:41,360 --> 02:14:47,360
and go out. I used to think that everything, again, when I had no acceptance, I had to make

1464
02:14:47,360 --> 02:14:55,200
everything happen or influence what was going on to make sure that it would fit into what was

1465
02:14:55,200 --> 02:15:05,920
acceptable to me. What a horrible struggle that is. When you're trying to hammer your reality,

1466
02:15:05,920 --> 02:15:10,880
when you're trying to hammer life into the reality that you can accept, you wind up stepping on the

1467
02:15:10,880 --> 02:15:16,160
toes of people all around you and they're retaliating and now I'm in drama and chaos

1468
02:15:16,160 --> 02:15:23,840
and resentment. What I've come to understand is I crave peace. My soul can't be at peace.

1469
02:15:23,840 --> 02:15:30,880
My soul craves peace. My resiliency lifestyle, I employ things like boundaries and

1470
02:15:34,320 --> 02:15:40,960
acceptance and humility so that I can achieve peace. Then there's a physical component. For

1471
02:15:40,960 --> 02:15:48,560
me to be peaceful, I can't be morbidly obese. I can't be working myself into type 2 diabetes,

1472
02:15:48,560 --> 02:15:58,720
eating myself into that way. I can't be a four-cigar-a-day smoker like I was.

1473
02:16:05,600 --> 02:16:14,800
I need that endorphin rush of exercise. I want the flexibility component because I'm still doing

1474
02:16:14,800 --> 02:16:22,320
the job today in my 25th year at 54 years old and things hurt. I need to protect this body.

1475
02:16:22,320 --> 02:16:31,840
I want to enjoy my retirement. The physical part is huge. It's my diet. It's my exercise load.

1476
02:16:31,840 --> 02:16:44,000
At 54 years old, embracing the realities of some of my limitations and accepting that

1477
02:16:44,000 --> 02:16:59,040
and being kind to myself through those changes. Then the component of creativity and interests.

1478
02:16:59,040 --> 02:17:02,960
I can't tell you over the course of my life how many times I picked up the guitar and put it down,

1479
02:17:04,400 --> 02:17:11,840
but now I've had a consistent practice regimen and I've got some results there.

1480
02:17:13,920 --> 02:17:24,320
I work in the mental health field now as a peer advocate and a group facilitator.

1481
02:17:24,320 --> 02:17:31,200
That's become an interest. Whereas I had my fitness career on the side,

1482
02:17:31,200 --> 02:17:38,560
now I have my mental health career on the side. Like I said way earlier in the podcast,

1483
02:17:38,560 --> 02:17:46,560
I'm back into fishing, doing better things than I've ever done, having adventures like I've never

1484
02:17:46,560 --> 02:17:57,440
had before. One of the sports that I, besides enjoying golf, I became a competitive long distance

1485
02:17:58,320 --> 02:18:07,920
surf ski paddler. At the age of 51 years old, three years ago, I was able to enter and win

1486
02:18:07,920 --> 02:18:17,680
the East Coast Championships for my age group. Those are just some of the benefits that I've

1487
02:18:17,680 --> 02:18:28,800
gotten from this lifestyle that started on my worst day, June 17th, 2017. I was in so much trouble.

1488
02:18:28,800 --> 02:18:34,800
I was finally forced to look at myself. I had no idea I was starting to embark on this journey of

1489
02:18:34,800 --> 02:18:44,000
self-discovery that was going to bring me that reckoning, brought me to a place of awareness where

1490
02:18:45,840 --> 02:18:53,760
the journey of recovery was brought to me, which in turn brought me into the post-traumatic growth

1491
02:18:54,480 --> 02:19:00,560
and resiliency lifestyle that I'm living today, which is that body, mind, spirit connection,

1492
02:19:00,560 --> 02:19:09,200
sustaining those three areas of my life, which enables the relationships in my life to be way

1493
02:19:09,200 --> 02:19:22,160
more functional and enjoyable. I'm the dad that I always was supposed to be, the son that I was

1494
02:19:22,160 --> 02:19:29,200
always supposed to be, the brother, the coworker that I was always supposed to be. All the things

1495
02:19:29,200 --> 02:19:38,160
that I wanted inside, I have, but I have to work on it on a daily basis. This isn't like I check

1496
02:19:38,160 --> 02:19:48,560
that off the list and now I'm suddenly perfect in that area. We're humans. We're not meant to be

1497
02:19:48,560 --> 02:19:56,080
perfect. We've got to keep working on this. I just think that the mental health struggles that come

1498
02:19:56,080 --> 02:20:03,680
from this job, especially when we're talking about PTSD, suicide ideation, the traumas of our life

1499
02:20:03,680 --> 02:20:09,440
before the fire service, bleeding into our life in the fire service and accumulating them,

1500
02:20:10,080 --> 02:20:17,360
it's a lifestyle to live with that. I thought that I would arrive at some day that

1501
02:20:18,080 --> 02:20:24,000
the spiritual aspect of what I've come to understand addiction is, that it would go away,

1502
02:20:24,000 --> 02:20:31,520
that restless, irritable and discontented spirit, that selfish, self-centered nature that I could have,

1503
02:20:31,520 --> 02:20:38,560
that fear-based thinker that that's just going to go away because I don't use drugs and alcohol anymore.

1504
02:20:38,560 --> 02:20:46,960
Well, sorry, that hasn't been my experience. I have to actually do certain things and little did I know

1505
02:20:46,960 --> 02:20:54,320
that that would accumulate to a lifestyle that is not only far better than the one that I was leading

1506
02:20:54,320 --> 02:21:03,760
before, it's made my life so full. The fact that I'm on Behind the Shield podcast today,

1507
02:21:04,320 --> 02:21:10,720
talking with another person about the mental health challenges in the fire service,

1508
02:21:10,720 --> 02:21:17,360
that that's even on my radar, it's just opened up a whole world of possibilities, whereas

1509
02:21:17,360 --> 02:21:25,600
I said this earlier, my world was getting so small. If I didn't think of it, it wasn't even really happening.

1510
02:21:25,600 --> 02:21:32,000
And now my world is growing and growing and growing and I feel childlike at times.

1511
02:21:32,000 --> 02:21:42,880
My curiosity, my spontaneity, the excitement that I get and I was denying myself that

1512
02:21:43,520 --> 02:21:56,080
when I was angry, resentful, hungover, in withdrawal, lying, cheating, stealing, manipulating,

1513
02:21:56,080 --> 02:22:04,160
all the things that were coming with my former life. And it's just amazing.

1514
02:22:04,880 --> 02:22:11,280
It's amazing where you can go. And I know this is available to anybody that has the willingness

1515
02:22:11,920 --> 02:22:19,200
to be courageous and start to deal with your issues. And those of us that have dealt with our

1516
02:22:19,200 --> 02:22:24,240
issues, for us to be courageous enough to come out and speak openly,

1517
02:22:24,240 --> 02:22:29,120
and I'm so grateful for people like you that are giving us a forum to do it.

1518
02:22:30,000 --> 02:22:34,800
Well, I mean, I'm grateful for you as well for telling your story. Speaking of boundaries,

1519
02:22:34,800 --> 02:22:40,240
my son came home, so I need to wrap this up so I can go be a present dad for a little bit before I

1520
02:22:40,240 --> 02:22:46,000
go off and coach. But I mean, it's so important, everything you said I couldn't agree more with

1521
02:22:46,000 --> 02:22:51,520
and hearing the excitement, all these things that have got better now. So before I let you go,

1522
02:22:51,520 --> 02:22:56,240
tell me where people can find the Phoenix group if they're actually in your fire department,

1523
02:22:56,240 --> 02:23:00,400
and then how can they reach out to you if they want to try and create something similar in theirs?

1524
02:23:01,200 --> 02:23:07,440
Sure. They can find the Phoenix group at phoenixgroupatlocalf1403.org.

1525
02:23:09,440 --> 02:23:16,480
That's phoenixgroupatlocalf1403.org.

1526
02:23:16,480 --> 02:23:35,120
Brilliant. And then you can reach me. I will respond to any emails at jasonblaziatcomcast.net.

1527
02:23:36,960 --> 02:23:40,800
Beautiful. Well, Jason, I want to thank you so much. I want to say thank you to Gil again,

1528
02:23:40,800 --> 02:23:46,400
but this has been such an important conversation. Like I said, I see this all the time.

1529
02:23:46,400 --> 02:23:51,280
Vulnerability is a superpower. That's what a real man is, the yin and the yang. And we've become

1530
02:23:51,280 --> 02:23:56,720
these white circles, these terminator Rambo bullshit facades of masculinity that we were sold

1531
02:23:56,720 --> 02:24:02,400
as children. So I want to thank you so, so much for being so generous with your time and being so

1532
02:24:02,400 --> 02:24:06,880
courageous with your story. Yeah, I just want to finish by saying

1533
02:24:08,880 --> 02:24:15,200
vulnerability is my superpower. You know, for sure dispelling the myth of that has been one of the

1534
02:24:15,200 --> 02:24:25,760
greatest experiences in my life. I highly encourage that to anybody. And I believe that as we do that,

1535
02:24:26,480 --> 02:24:32,000
we will change the culture in this fire service and make this world a better place.

1536
02:24:32,000 --> 02:24:44,880
I know it. I'm living it. So I can't thank you enough for having me on. Appreciate you.