1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,560
I'm extremely excited to announce a brand new sponsor for the Behind the Shield podcast,

2
00:00:04,560 --> 00:00:07,480
and that is Rescue 1 CBD.

3
00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:10,880
For any of you who have listened to this podcast for the last eight years, you will have heard

4
00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:17,320
my own personal journey from using prescription pills after a knee surgery to finding CBD

5
00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:20,200
and having incredible success with that.

6
00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:26,160
I then saw my son's wheezing diminish, my wife's anxiety, and so many more kind of success

7
00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:27,260
stories.

8
00:00:27,260 --> 00:00:32,400
The problem is though, I've also seen the stigma and misunderstanding about this incredibly

9
00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:34,580
powerful plant medicine.

10
00:00:34,580 --> 00:00:39,460
When it comes to workplace drug testing, it's THC that they are looking for.

11
00:00:39,460 --> 00:00:45,080
The concentration is higher in marijuana, but there is a small amount in most CBD products.

12
00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:50,200
And with John being a veteran firefighter paramedic himself, he was determined to find

13
00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:54,920
a product that was pure, that would ensure there was nothing in there that would put

14
00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:57,280
someone's career at risk.

15
00:00:57,280 --> 00:00:59,720
So he developed a three tier system.

16
00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:05,800
The third party testing facility tests to parts per billion, which is the most minute

17
00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:09,540
amount I have ever heard of in all the time I've worked with CBD.

18
00:01:09,540 --> 00:01:14,260
The results of every batch are posted on their website so you can literally see the same

19
00:01:14,260 --> 00:01:17,400
results that they see from the batch that you are ordering.

20
00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:23,200
Secondly, they include workplace drug test kits in the order when you order it.

21
00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:27,380
So if you have any fears, you get to do it just to appease it, even though this is a

22
00:01:27,380 --> 00:01:30,000
pure and safe product.

23
00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:34,600
Thirdly, they've just finished a year long study with the University of Maryland and

24
00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:40,520
Arcadia University and firefighters from all over the country sent in their urine samples

25
00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:44,160
and not a single person failed a drug test.

26
00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:48,600
So you have three different tiers of trust with this particular product.

27
00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:50,800
Now they have different flavors for their CBD.

28
00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:54,180
For anyone that's had it that's just the CBD oil, it does not taste good.

29
00:01:54,180 --> 00:01:56,680
So they found a way of making it more palatable.

30
00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:00,760
They have a sleep remedy that has terpenes in, again, completely safe.

31
00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:02,760
That one's called out of service.

32
00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:07,240
And then topical CBD, obviously for aches and pains on the outside.

33
00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:11,320
Now on top of all that, Rescue 1 is offering you, the listener of the Behind the Shield

34
00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:18,160
podcast, 15% off your order if you use the code BTS, as in behind the shield.

35
00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:20,040
And you can find all of their products.

36
00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:25,480
You can find all of the testing and understand why this truly is a product that you can trust

37
00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:29,480
by going to rescue1cbd.com.

38
00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:34,120
And you can listen to my conversation with John on episode 1011 of the Behind the Shield

39
00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:36,540
podcast.

40
00:02:36,540 --> 00:02:37,920
Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast.

41
00:02:37,920 --> 00:02:41,400
As always, my name is James Gearing and this week it is my absolute honor to welcome on

42
00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:48,760
the show Army veteran and in extremis performance team member, Jake Labhart.

43
00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:54,420
Now in this conversation, we discuss a host of topics from Jake's early life as an athlete,

44
00:02:54,420 --> 00:03:00,240
his journey into the military, his immersion into strength and conditioning, the application

45
00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:07,360
of fitness and strength when it comes to shooting, standardized fitness tests, and so much more.

46
00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:12,520
Now before we get to this incredible conversation, as I say every week, please just take a moment.

47
00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:17,600
Go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback and

48
00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:19,600
leave a rating.

49
00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:24,700
Every single five star rating truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making it easier for

50
00:03:24,700 --> 00:03:26,160
others to find.

51
00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:31,360
And this is a free library of over 1000 episodes now.

52
00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:36,800
So all I ask in return is that you help share these incredible men and women stories so

53
00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:42,240
I can get them to every single person on planet earth who needs to hear them.

54
00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:46,920
And one more side note, I don't know if you've listened to this already, but my Instagram

55
00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:52,400
was closed down a couple of weeks ago for posting kindness videos.

56
00:03:52,400 --> 00:04:02,120
So anyway, if you are looking for us on Instagram, the new page is now at behind the shield 911.2.0

57
00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:03,920
so 2.0.

58
00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:08,960
So with that being said, I introduce to you Jake Labhart.

59
00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:29,040
Enjoy.

60
00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:33,120
Well Jake, I want to start by saying thank you so so much for taking the time and coming

61
00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:36,280
on the Behind the Shield podcast today.

62
00:04:36,280 --> 00:04:37,280
Thank you for having me.

63
00:04:37,280 --> 00:04:38,280
I really appreciate the opportunity.

64
00:04:38,280 --> 00:04:42,520
So where on planet earth we finding you this afternoon?

65
00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:48,280
Today, currently where I live is Salina, Texas C-E-L-I-N-A.

66
00:04:48,280 --> 00:04:50,800
A lot of people say Selena, but it is Salina.

67
00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:54,240
We have that redneck draw, but just north of Dallas.

68
00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:58,520
So we're up here in the Dallas area and yeah, trying to have some good weather a little

69
00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:01,840
bit of rain that we hadn't had in 30 days.

70
00:05:01,840 --> 00:05:04,280
Is there a big red flag danger at the moment?

71
00:05:04,280 --> 00:05:06,000
Are you thinking of wildfires?

72
00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:10,920
No, fortunately it's cooled off a little bit so it's not as bad, but this summer was pretty

73
00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:11,920
spicy.

74
00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:16,920
So no wildfires, but it's been warm and dry.

75
00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:17,920
Gotcha.

76
00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:18,920
All right.

77
00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:20,080
Well, let's start at the very beginning of your journey then.

78
00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:23,720
So tell me where you were born and tell me a little bit about your family dynamic, what

79
00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:25,680
your parents did, how many siblings?

80
00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:26,680
Okay, wow.

81
00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:28,160
I wouldn't expect to go that far back.

82
00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:29,840
All right, let's do it.

83
00:05:29,840 --> 00:05:33,720
So I was born in Sherman, Texas, even a little further north as close as you can get to the

84
00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:36,400
Oklahoma border.

85
00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:39,400
I'm one of three kids, so I'm the oldest.

86
00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:44,160
I've got a brother and a sister, brother in the middle and sister younger.

87
00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:46,840
We were very heavy into athletics growing up.

88
00:05:46,840 --> 00:05:48,720
So my brother played in the NFL.

89
00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:50,200
He played at football at Texas A&M.

90
00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:54,320
My sister played volleyball at Texas A&M.

91
00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:56,080
They were both freak athletes.

92
00:05:56,080 --> 00:06:00,680
I was the chump of the three of us.

93
00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:02,520
So I was okay with football.

94
00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:08,080
I got some Division I scholarships, but my heart was really towards the military, which

95
00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:09,640
came later on in my life.

96
00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:13,160
But I graduated from Texas A&M as well.

97
00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:17,440
Both of my parents were actually physical therapists, which also came into play in my

98
00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:18,560
career.

99
00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:24,900
So it was very cool to see and they were very influential in my life.

100
00:06:24,900 --> 00:06:26,600
Physical therapists, but they own their own practices.

101
00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,000
So they had outpatient orthopedics.

102
00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:34,360
They owned a home health practice and then they did some consulting in different areas.

103
00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:40,000
But I would say where I saw a lot of it was my dad specifically.

104
00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:41,280
He trained a lot of athletes.

105
00:06:41,280 --> 00:06:45,600
So growing up, I was always seeing him in the clinic working with different athletes.

106
00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:50,920
Again, me and my brother and sister all played sports at pretty high levels.

107
00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:55,640
And so what I did not know at a younger age was just like the way he viewed and looked

108
00:06:55,640 --> 00:07:02,120
at things was actually very similar to how I personally work in the tactical community.

109
00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:07,680
My mother also practiced quite a bit, but whenever they got later in their life and

110
00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:09,760
eventually sold their practice, she stepped in a lot more.

111
00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:14,400
So that was kind of who I got to see growing up.

112
00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:19,640
When you look back now, bearing in mind that one of your siblings went to the NFL, another

113
00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:21,080
one was an elite volleyball player.

114
00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:22,560
My son's a volleyball player at the moment.

115
00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:26,040
So it's a fun sport to watch as a parent, it doesn't stop and start as much as some

116
00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:29,240
of the other American sports.

117
00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:33,040
And then you obviously were Division 1 as well.

118
00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:38,880
What were they bringing to your childhood to allow you to level up where other kids

119
00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:45,520
may be born in different family dynamics, maybe wouldn't have reached the same pinnacle?

120
00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:52,400
When I look back at my parents now as an adult, what's the word I want to use?

121
00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:54,760
Sport was the first thing that was about to come out of my mouth.

122
00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:57,720
The love and support that they gave to us.

123
00:07:57,720 --> 00:07:59,360
But they also taught us really hard lessons.

124
00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:06,200
So we grew up on a ranch where a lot of our friends would in the summers go into town

125
00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:12,120
and like play and go play at friends houses on PlayStation or Nintendo 64, whatever you

126
00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:15,040
had back in the day.

127
00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:20,240
We worked, so we spent a lot of time out there playing in the woods.

128
00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:25,920
But in terms of sports, one of the things I saw that they gave back, one, my dad, how

129
00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:30,080
he viewed using his physical therapy side and how he viewed strength and conditioning

130
00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:31,080
at that time.

131
00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:34,100
Again, not knowing it now, but back then, he was very specific.

132
00:08:34,100 --> 00:08:39,840
So he trained us in very specific areas and had really good progressions.

133
00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:44,240
But more than anything, I look back at both my parents, they did not push us.

134
00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:50,080
So there was no yelling or expectations of some level of performance.

135
00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:51,360
They just let us play.

136
00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:52,840
We went and played sports.

137
00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:59,200
And then if we wanted extra, then they provided us ways to do that.

138
00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:02,480
And for us specifically, it was through them.

139
00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:06,360
We did do some maybe lessons at different points in our life.

140
00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:11,000
But for the very large portion of it, it was like, hey man, my dad, as an example, and

141
00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:13,960
my mom actually, you want to get better?

142
00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:14,960
5 a.m.

143
00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:17,880
Sweet, I'll drive you up to the stadium and you can run bleachers.

144
00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:20,240
And they would do things like that throughout our life.

145
00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:22,400
But they gave us the opportunity to pursue it.

146
00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:25,560
It was never forced upon us.

147
00:09:25,560 --> 00:09:30,760
And so I feel like one of the big pieces there that did separate us was definitely work ethic,

148
00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:33,600
but then just availability, to be very honest.

149
00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:37,360
They were willing to take that time to be available and allow us to push ourselves,

150
00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:41,040
but also guide us to that process.

151
00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:45,700
This would be an interesting question for you, multi-generational physical therapy family.

152
00:09:45,700 --> 00:09:51,920
When I first moved to the States, and I've told this story many times, as I started meeting

153
00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:57,360
more and more people, usually kind of either side of 30 or beyond, now deconditioned, there

154
00:09:57,360 --> 00:09:59,800
would always be an Uncle Rico story.

155
00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:04,000
While I would have been in the major leagues or whatever, if it wasn't for my ACL, MCL,

156
00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:06,640
slapped hair, insert thing here.

157
00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:11,840
And I started going like, what the fuck are they doing to children in this country that

158
00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:16,720
they barely graduate school or college and they're already destroyed physically?

159
00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:23,680
So then in all these conversations, I went to UF and finished my ex-phys degree and you

160
00:10:23,680 --> 00:10:30,960
live here long enough, you start to see that in some cases, arguably a lot of cases, there's

161
00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:37,040
performance squeezed out of youth athletes at the expense of longevity and wellness.

162
00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:39,240
What is your perspective of that?

163
00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:44,440
Oh, I think that's a, like you said, it's generational, but I think it's multifactorial

164
00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:49,000
question or answer maybe.

165
00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:54,280
Looking back on our experience, I think we were very fortunate.

166
00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:59,860
And again, we were not pushed, which I think, you know this, right?

167
00:10:59,860 --> 00:11:02,760
When you're looking from a human performance perspective, whether it be engineering or

168
00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:10,480
performance intensity, but stress, stressors are the things that are going to make the

169
00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:11,640
impact, right?

170
00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:16,680
Whether the stress on the muscle that allows it to grow to get better or the external stress

171
00:11:16,680 --> 00:11:22,400
and the external stress and the external stress that boom, the stars aligned and you're injured,

172
00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:23,400
right?

173
00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:26,880
I think looking back on our life, I think we were not pushed in the sense of, and I

174
00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:30,160
think they encouraged us, I don't mean that, but it was never a negative pushing, never

175
00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:32,400
yelling you need to be doing better kind of thing.

176
00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:33,400
So I think that that was one.

177
00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:35,320
Two, we were given opportunities.

178
00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:40,040
So we played baseball, we played football, we played basketball, we ran track.

179
00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:42,400
My brother did gymnastics.

180
00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:47,200
He tells people all the time, like parents consist, he's five nine now, he's probably

181
00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:54,400
like 195, but playing in the college level, he was five nine 175, 180 until he got into

182
00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:55,640
the NFL, right?

183
00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:58,880
So my point being is very undersized.

184
00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:01,680
I see all these parents that are like, you need to go to these lessons.

185
00:12:01,680 --> 00:12:04,120
You need to do, do, do, do, do, right?

186
00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:06,360
I do understand we live in a different generation.

187
00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:09,000
My sister now is a volleyball coach.

188
00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:12,840
She literally took a team to state within about two to three years.

189
00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:17,800
Amazing coach, but she also coaches at a club volleyball program, one of the largest actually

190
00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:18,800
in the country.

191
00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:24,080
So I see that other side of it now, but if I was going to go backwards and what you're

192
00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:26,480
talking about overuse and injury, stuff like that.

193
00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:28,440
Yeah, I think it's shifted wildly.

194
00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:31,760
I think back in the day and even Patrick, my homes have been pretty open about a lot

195
00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:37,320
of athletes, drewberries, go play sports, just go be a kid, learn how to move motor

196
00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:38,400
patterns.

197
00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:42,040
And honestly, even stuff that I do now with special operations units, it's building these

198
00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:47,600
motor patterns that were maybe not taught and maybe not allowed to flourish.

199
00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:50,480
Whereas now I feel like we're trying to force motor patterns.

200
00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:54,360
Well now you find weaknesses in other areas because kids are so specialized that yes,

201
00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:59,360
you are overusing or potentially the opportunity for injury.

202
00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:05,000
I'm not saying that sometimes it doesn't work out and I don't think I'm alone in this, but

203
00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:10,080
I say this statement and I think a lot of people just are kind of like, yeah, genetics

204
00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:12,080
is a very real thing.

205
00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:15,680
Some people are genetically more gifted for different opportunities.

206
00:13:15,680 --> 00:13:18,840
So I'm not saying work's not a real thing because it very much is, but I think at the

207
00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:23,920
same time we see people that are overreaching and sometimes it's like, I don't care how

208
00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:28,760
much you throw at that personal trainer, at that specific coach, the chance of going to

209
00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:33,640
the NFL, maybe look at something else or you're just harming your child if you're the adult

210
00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:34,640
there.

211
00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:37,520
Sorry, I know it's a long-winded answer, but I answer your question.

212
00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:38,520
No you would.

213
00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:40,480
I mean, perfect example, I'm never going to win world's strongest man.

214
00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:42,560
I'm six foot one, one eighty now.

215
00:13:42,560 --> 00:13:44,880
I used to be one sixty eight when I was a firefighter.

216
00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:48,160
So yes, genetics is definitely a real thing.

217
00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:52,200
But I think that's another truth that comes out of these conversations over and over again

218
00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:55,160
from the longevity and performance side.

219
00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:59,320
The multi-sport athlete seems to be over and over again.

220
00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:00,320
That's the truth.

221
00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:04,680
If you've just got a kid who's a pitcher and all they ever do is pitch, their shoulders

222
00:14:04,680 --> 00:14:06,160
going to blow out at some point.

223
00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:08,040
It's a foregone conclusion.

224
00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:13,280
And then also the mental side, I've had even people say, look, even letting kids go out

225
00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:16,640
there and making up their own rules.

226
00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:20,080
If child playing shouldn't have a dude in a stripy shirt telling them what they can

227
00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:22,320
and can't do at the play level.

228
00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:27,960
Yes, if you compete, but the love of play, I think we've got to be careful we don't

229
00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:30,840
destroy that too, because that's such an important part.

230
00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:32,080
And that's where innovation comes.

231
00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:33,360
That's where creativity comes.

232
00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:37,960
That's how these sports were even invented in the first place with simply people playing.

233
00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:39,000
Absolutely.

234
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:44,040
And even my three kids now that are just now getting into sports, I've got ten, six and

235
00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:46,100
two.

236
00:14:46,100 --> 00:14:51,720
I just want them to enjoy the past whenever I'm home, but like the past two nights that

237
00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:55,960
I can very vividly think on my two sons, the youngest two, they just want to throw the

238
00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:56,960
ball.

239
00:14:56,960 --> 00:15:00,520
Like I'm not specifically trying to teach them this or like, no, no, no, no, no.

240
00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:01,520
In baseball, you need to do this.

241
00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:05,240
Like I'm just throwing an object at them and I just want them to practice catching it.

242
00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:09,360
Now, my middle one's now to an age where he's like, dad, no, right here, throw it right

243
00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:10,360
here.

244
00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:13,440
Well, I'm actually trying to move it around because I want him to just practice.

245
00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:18,080
But at the same time, it's just like, they just enjoy playing catch with dad.

246
00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:23,440
And I think the hand-eye coordination, we just need to get back where I think sometimes,

247
00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:29,200
there are kids in my community, three, four years old are going to batting lessons.

248
00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:31,440
That's insane to me.

249
00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:36,640
You don't have just like you're saying, without rules, just play those motor patterns and

250
00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:38,360
start letting them build.

251
00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:42,360
So anyway, yeah, I think that's something societally we've kind of forced ourselves

252
00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:43,640
into.

253
00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:44,640
Absolutely.

254
00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:48,120
Well, you mentioned about having a burning desire to be in the military.

255
00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:51,000
Talk to me about how you found yourself in education first.

256
00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:54,080
Yeah, it's a really good question.

257
00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:58,320
So I went to Texas A&M.

258
00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:02,080
So I originally went to the Air Force Academy and I went to Texas A&M.

259
00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:03,400
Originally went to the Air Force Academy to play football.

260
00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:05,240
I was like, ah, that's not for me.

261
00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:10,680
I wanted to play football, not do academics, which is ironic how much academics have been

262
00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:17,960
in my life since then, but when I was at A&M, I did, I kind of was like, hey man, I had

263
00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:19,760
some coaches who are influential in my life.

264
00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:21,960
And so I was like, hey, education, right?

265
00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:25,960
Like I can check my boxes for my prerequisites for PT school because my parents are like,

266
00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:26,960
hey, that's a good profession.

267
00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:28,840
I was like, school's not for me.

268
00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:30,720
Just let me out of this place pretty much.

269
00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:35,040
Like I had a good buddy who was at SEAL Team 4 at the time.

270
00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:38,960
He's like an older brother to me, a mentor that I've looked up to my whole life.

271
00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:41,640
And I wanted to go to the military.

272
00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:44,320
And so while I was at A&M, I was like, let me out of here.

273
00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:46,520
But I was like, I can get an education degree.

274
00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:48,920
I do enjoy teaching and coaching.

275
00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:51,520
But to be honest with you, there wasn't like this massive passion.

276
00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:55,800
However, comma, as I got into it, what I found is, is I do very much enjoy teaching.

277
00:16:55,800 --> 00:17:00,120
I enjoy the more than anything, the influence you can have in that person's life.

278
00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:03,120
And so that was kind of where I started, right?

279
00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:07,760
I got my education degree, my wife and I got married for one year while I was waiting to

280
00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:08,880
go to the military.

281
00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:11,280
I went and taught.

282
00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:14,360
Looking back on my life, that's one of the funnest times I had was just getting to speak

283
00:17:14,360 --> 00:17:18,000
into middle school kids' lives and then coach.

284
00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:22,080
And I didn't care about winning or losing as much as I did those young men as they further

285
00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:23,080
on in their life.

286
00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:28,600
I hope to this day, they remember Coach Labhart from a good like, hey man, you know, that

287
00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:30,040
dude cared about this kind of thing.

288
00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:35,680
And so yeah, that was kind of where it started for me on the teaching side.

289
00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:40,640
There are so many stories of people finding themselves doing random things early in their

290
00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:42,960
life and then it comes full circle.

291
00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:46,720
And Steve Jobs famously took calligraphy at college.

292
00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:47,960
He didn't do an actual major.

293
00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:49,560
He just took classes.

294
00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:53,760
And then fast forward years later, he was the first one to put fonts on a computer.

295
00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:56,640
So that was that kind of tie in.

296
00:17:56,640 --> 00:18:02,140
How did that year teaching middle school kids factor into maybe even teaching the tactical

297
00:18:02,140 --> 00:18:03,140
community today?

298
00:18:03,140 --> 00:18:05,360
It was hugely.

299
00:18:05,360 --> 00:18:07,000
It impacts it directly.

300
00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,840
I mean, there's been times where I've gone back and I've looked at like building out

301
00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:17,420
a curriculum and structuring a class, time management, but then having to learn different

302
00:18:17,420 --> 00:18:21,560
teaching styles where there'd be visual, auditory or kinesthetic, right?

303
00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:26,120
Like or tactile, I guess which term you want to use.

304
00:18:26,120 --> 00:18:31,980
But understanding those pieces from my bachelor's degree and then working with these middle

305
00:18:31,980 --> 00:18:36,140
school kids to flipping around is no different.

306
00:18:36,140 --> 00:18:40,600
It's just a different population with special operations units and understanding how to

307
00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:47,560
do those things to where one kid or one operator may not understand it, how you're saying it.

308
00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:48,560
So they see it.

309
00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:51,780
Well, I need to make sure my demo reflects that, right?

310
00:18:51,780 --> 00:18:55,280
With a firearm or versus a math problem on the whiteboard.

311
00:18:55,280 --> 00:19:02,120
So yeah, it's absolutely, I feel pretty comfortable on skin, but also teaching.

312
00:19:02,120 --> 00:19:05,120
I would say that there's been times maybe with special operations units, I was a little

313
00:19:05,120 --> 00:19:07,920
more nervous early on in my career, but I'll tell you straight up that first day in the

314
00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:12,000
classroom with seventh graders, I was like, oh boy, I hope they don't see right through

315
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:13,000
me.

316
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:17,220
So I think it directly correlates.

317
00:19:17,220 --> 00:19:22,440
So walk me through your journey into the military and then any kind of deployments that you

318
00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:26,480
found yourself and then I know obviously the story continues to selection.

319
00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:27,480
Sure.

320
00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:29,160
So no deployment.

321
00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,280
So like I said, I was waiting to go into the military.

322
00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:34,040
So I taught for that year.

323
00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:36,520
I enlisted at the 18 X-ray pipeline.

324
00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:42,280
So I'm pretty sure it's still there, but back at the time when I did enlist, you could go

325
00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:47,280
with an 18 X-ray contract to go into the special forces pipeline.

326
00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:56,320
So you go basic infantry school airborne, and then you go to selection right after that.

327
00:19:56,320 --> 00:20:01,080
And then go into the Q course for whatever MOS that they would want you to go into the

328
00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:04,380
18 or the SF pipeline.

329
00:20:04,380 --> 00:20:05,920
So I did all of those.

330
00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:08,520
I went through infantry school, airborne selection.

331
00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:16,200
I got selected and I was slotted as 18 Delta, which is the special forces medic to essentially

332
00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:20,240
go into the Q course to learn that specialty.

333
00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:23,400
And then once you graduate the Q course, you actually become a green beret and go to your

334
00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:25,220
group.

335
00:20:25,220 --> 00:20:31,000
So I made it through selection and then I went into the 18 Delta pipeline.

336
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,160
It was a tough time in my life.

337
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:36,120
I was pretty successful up to that point.

338
00:20:36,120 --> 00:20:37,960
I one timed everything.

339
00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:43,960
When I went to the 18 Delta pipeline to actually try to go be a green beret medic, I ended

340
00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:48,280
up getting hurt pretty bad.

341
00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:52,600
Knowing what I know now, I could have handled this very differently, but unfortunately you

342
00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:54,640
don't know what you don't know, right?

343
00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:56,320
I injured my back.

344
00:20:56,320 --> 00:21:02,800
I started with a small little ouchy that grew to, I had drop foot.

345
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:08,040
I just had a disc issue in my lumbar spine, whereas compressing the nerve enough that

346
00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:10,240
caused a lot bigger issues.

347
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:15,000
Again, knowing what I know now, it's actually very manageable and treatable.

348
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:18,760
But at that time, unfortunately where I was at in the Q course, that's just not how it

349
00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:19,760
worked.

350
00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:21,280
It wasn't so much a, hey, go get yourself better.

351
00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:25,480
There are those opportunities maybe I should say, but for mine it just wasn't.

352
00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:32,680
Once I got drop foot, unfortunately I went through the process anyway and I got med boarded

353
00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:38,240
out of the army within a pretty quick span early in my career, which was very difficult

354
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:42,320
for me, but because I was seeing all my buddies that were going to group and they were getting

355
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:45,320
their green berets, they're going to group, they're going to deployments.

356
00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:50,280
I was just very much like, what am I doing with my life?

357
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:52,880
I had a college degree, I was a teacher, I was married.

358
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:58,240
I just had my first child, my daughter.

359
00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:02,360
It was very much a time of what am I doing next kind of situation.

360
00:22:02,360 --> 00:22:08,560
Well, speaking of back injuries, I had a, I would argue near career ending back injury

361
00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:12,120
when I was a firefighter a few years ago.

362
00:22:12,120 --> 00:22:15,400
You can imagine, I'm sure you've probably heard from the law enforcement side, you get

363
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,200
hurt, you go to a really shitty workman's comp doc.

364
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:22,960
They tell you just take these pills and then we'll slice and dice you and medically retire

365
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,480
you, whatever that path looks like.

366
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:29,120
But it took me on a very different journey because having the knowledge that I have,

367
00:22:29,120 --> 00:22:32,920
I was like, well, this is not going to be fixed by scalpels and pills, this is a rehab

368
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:33,920
issue.

369
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:37,640
And so it was very dogmatic, put myself through Cairo.

370
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:42,120
And while I was there, my chiropractor introduced me to a thing called foundation training,

371
00:22:42,120 --> 00:22:46,440
which was created by a chiropractor who'd messed up his own bag.

372
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:52,520
And it looks almost like yoga, but it's not, it's, it's cancer levering the body using

373
00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:55,000
your own, you know, your arms as extra weight.

374
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:59,560
So you're lengthening the muscles, but you're strengthening them at the same time.

375
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:00,560
Absolutely incredible.

376
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:02,040
Like I shout from the rooftops about it.

377
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:06,920
I went and got certified, I taught my firefighters, but that was such a huge piece.

378
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,640
And it wasn't just getting out of pain.

379
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:14,240
It was a few months later, I was deadlifting, you know, heavy again, and you know, with

380
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:19,240
correct form, but being able to be a good, strong firefighter, not just kind of masking

381
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:20,820
an injury the rest of my career.

382
00:23:20,820 --> 00:23:24,080
So and if you've ever heard of that, but it's an amazing tool.

383
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:26,440
I haven't heard of that specifically, but the concept.

384
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:28,440
Yeah, man, it's tough.

385
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:34,000
Like you're, you're this candidate that has been selected to start the training to hopefully

386
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:35,480
become a green beret, right?

387
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:40,640
And you're like, man, I got to be physically like, bam, top notch.

388
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:45,040
And I look back and some of the, the, the programs or the workouts I was following or

389
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:52,320
doing were random, way too high of intensity with not enough rest.

390
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:55,280
And it was perfect recipe and that still happens.

391
00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:59,520
There's a lot piece, there's a genetic piece, there's lots of variables here, right?

392
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:04,560
Unfortunately that was the situation I was in and I just didn't know any better.

393
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:08,260
You know, obviously I know we're fast forwarding here, but then I go get my doctorate in physical

394
00:24:08,260 --> 00:24:11,200
therapy and I'm like, first off, you're an idiot.

395
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:12,880
Like why, like why did you do those things?

396
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:13,880
Right?

397
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:14,880
You don't know what you don't know.

398
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:19,600
But, but then I look back to kind of what you're talking about your opportunity.

399
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:23,080
I didn't like really get to treat my back until I got out of the military and into grad

400
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:27,120
school and I was like, whoa, this is, this was super manageable.

401
00:24:27,120 --> 00:24:29,480
If I just known, right?

402
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:30,480
That is great.

403
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:35,040
That, that process and I, and just full transparency, I was super angry.

404
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:36,040
I was angry at the world.

405
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:37,920
I was angry at the military.

406
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:42,440
I hurt because I wanted my, my friends to be safe and I felt like I should be with them

407
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:43,440
kind of thing.

408
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:48,360
And I went through a lot of emotions, but that has also driven me to where I am today

409
00:24:48,360 --> 00:24:53,400
because we, we work with teams and units and I can tell them like, Hey, I've been there

410
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,520
in those shoes where you, you're, you're limping along, right?

411
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,000
And just waiting for that breaking point.

412
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:04,660
But there's other things you can be doing to bulletproof those joints or your back or

413
00:25:04,660 --> 00:25:06,040
whatever it may be.

414
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,440
And so it's, it's had a huge influence on my life.

415
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:10,480
It was very hard for me to go through.

416
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:12,280
And I'm not trying to sound like a baby.

417
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:16,720
I understand there's a lot of guys that went through a lot worse than I did, but my journey

418
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:20,160
that was just emotional, that was a very hard time in my life, but it's, it's made a huge

419
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,960
impact to where we are today, fortunately.

420
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:23,960
Right.

421
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,440
But to your point, very manageable.

422
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:31,960
You just got to understand and have somebody teach you and be willing to accept it and

423
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:32,960
go.

424
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:37,200
I would imagine even though it was a somewhat short period in the military that after a

425
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:41,080
couple of years and you know, you're, you've passed selection, especially this is really

426
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:43,200
forced as your identity now.

427
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,720
And when you got hurt, that was kind of stripped from you and you're probably left wondering

428
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:48,520
what the hell am I, what the hell am I going to do?

429
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:52,120
But also who am I now?

430
00:25:52,120 --> 00:25:55,160
You could not have articulated that any better.

431
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,560
Like to an exact T you're right.

432
00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:01,960
It was only a couple of years, but the guys you form those relationships with, you go

433
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:05,720
through selection and again, I wasn't like an 18 year old kid, right?

434
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:06,720
I was married.

435
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:09,840
I was 26, 27 at the time.

436
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:15,400
I'd already had one career or if you want to call it, I guess, you know, I had a professional

437
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,840
job as a teacher and instructor or teacher and coach.

438
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,400
It's not like I just did this like on a wild night.

439
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:24,400
I was just like, Hey, I'm going to go in the military.

440
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:25,400
Right.

441
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,280
I passed selection and like that's where my vision completely was.

442
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,600
And identity is the perfect word.

443
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,360
Since I've got out, I've done a lot of different things, but one of the things I've worked

444
00:26:34,360 --> 00:26:38,560
with is a lot of nonprofits, specifically with the veteran community.

445
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:44,400
And it's been interesting for me because I've seen your biggest pie pitters at Delta Force

446
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:48,560
that have had more deployments than anybody else all the way down to the people that were

447
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:53,280
in that maybe didn't deploy, but had less time.

448
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,600
Everybody suffers an identity crisis when they get out of some level.

449
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:57,600
Right.

450
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:03,000
And I've been very fortunate to have a lot of friends that I can speak to through my

451
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:07,640
experience, even though I did not do anything specific in terms of deployments, but you're

452
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:08,640
exactly right.

453
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:13,440
Like trying to fight through that identity piece was not a fun journey.

454
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:18,080
And because I felt like I didn't do anything per deployments, I also didn't ask for help.

455
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:24,120
It was a very tough time in my life and I'm very fortunate.

456
00:27:24,120 --> 00:27:29,080
I'm super blessed for my wife and multiple friends that spoke into my life during that

457
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,680
time to get where I'm at today.

458
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:32,960
Yeah.

459
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:34,160
I think this is the thing.

460
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:38,600
I mean, what I see in the first-respondent professions, this can happen not only with

461
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:42,920
an injury, which almost happened with me, but also with termination, with retiring,

462
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:46,280
with promoting to an admin area.

463
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:49,200
You've lost that identity in some of those, but also that tribe.

464
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:56,080
And if you ever read Sebastian Junger's book, Tribe, but you think about us as a species,

465
00:27:56,080 --> 00:28:00,360
most of our history, we have been very, very tribal in a good way.

466
00:28:00,360 --> 00:28:04,720
And if you were outside that tribe, that meant ostracization, it meant death.

467
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:10,120
So inherently, it does not feel right to be taken from that tribe.

468
00:28:10,120 --> 00:28:15,920
So you add that and that loss of purpose and that identity, you've got a whole Jenga tower

469
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:22,080
of reasons why, depending on how low you got, people we see, people take their own lives,

470
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:23,480
people drown in addiction.

471
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:27,680
And a lot of that is that crushing element of being snatched from that profession that

472
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:28,680
you adored.

473
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:29,680
Yeah.

474
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:36,880
Like you said, and I think military is known for being really bad about it, but it absolutely

475
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:38,960
is in the first responder world as well.

476
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:45,560
As I've moved from military to most of my friends slash connections are on the law enforcement

477
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:50,920
side specifically, but just really first responder.

478
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:55,720
I know you've had lots of people on, but the psychological side is something that I think

479
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:58,520
is not covered enough, unfortunately, in that community.

480
00:28:58,520 --> 00:28:59,920
But yes.

481
00:28:59,920 --> 00:29:01,160
Absolutely.

482
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:05,760
Well then walk me through, what were some of the tools that you said your family, but

483
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,560
what were some of the things that pulled you out of that dark place?

484
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,400
And then walk me through your journey into physical therapy.

485
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:12,400
Yeah.

486
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:18,400
So I'm not sure when I cleared out of that dark space, to be honest with you.

487
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,040
I just kind of kept putting one foot in front of the other.

488
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:26,760
Like I said, at that time my wife, she still was my wife, but at that time when I was in

489
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:33,560
a tough place, my wife was there, but then also like I said, we'd had our daughter.

490
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:38,160
Honestly, it was kind of like selection.

491
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,560
It was just like, just keep moving.

492
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:45,020
And I felt like there were times where I was literally on my face, maybe crawling metaphorically,

493
00:29:45,020 --> 00:29:48,080
but I just have to keep going.

494
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:52,520
Because I got out and I literally was, I was like, I don't know what I'm going to go do.

495
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,320
Am I going to go be a teacher again?

496
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,320
I've had this pretty wild career change.

497
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:03,020
And honestly, at that time PT school was just kind of like a, man, you got the prerequisites

498
00:30:03,020 --> 00:30:04,020
for it.

499
00:30:04,020 --> 00:30:05,020
There's a PT school right there.

500
00:30:05,020 --> 00:30:06,680
Let's just go see if we can apply and get in.

501
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,440
That's what your parents did.

502
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,640
I don't even want to sit here on this podcast and lie and be like, oh yeah, that's what

503
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:13,680
I always wanted to do.

504
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:14,680
It wasn't.

505
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,840
It was just kind of like, well, I don't know, let's see what happens.

506
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,120
I went into PT school and I was still super angry.

507
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:24,840
I was not in a good place, unfortunately.

508
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:29,600
When they made PT a doctorate level program, you have to do research.

509
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:34,120
And I did not want to work with geriatric patients, pediatric patients.

510
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:38,560
And honestly, I didn't really want to work with athletes, even on the orthopedic side.

511
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:43,360
I really good buddy who was actually at the state level on the SWAT team out there in

512
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:50,860
North Carolina, or I guess I go by SRT, but regardless, he was like, hey man, we're trying

513
00:30:50,860 --> 00:30:53,760
to rebuild a physical fitness test.

514
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:54,760
Do you want to help us with it?

515
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,200
And I was like, sure.

516
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:03,960
And to be honest with you at that time, in my life, there's a pretty tough time.

517
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:08,480
Again, my moving forward was just like, I had somebody, I had the tactical world where

518
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:12,280
I was like, hey man, like I was involved with that at one point, let's just see what happens

519
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:13,280
there.

520
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,360
And I just kind of kept going.

521
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:20,680
When I started as a good idea fairy, just, it just kept going, just kept going.

522
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:22,520
And then it snowballed and it snowballed.

523
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:25,440
And I was very fortunate that I had a lot of people.

524
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:29,320
Sometimes what happens is I feel like with our company and the some of the success we've

525
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,640
had, they're like, hey man, you built this, like we need you doing this.

526
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,120
And that's like hard stop.

527
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:38,200
It was not, I've had so many people speak into my life.

528
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,040
So many people have, it feels like get to that next block, right?

529
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,640
That help you just take that one next step up.

530
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:49,920
And I don't know when I came out of it specifically, because I think I carried so much hurt and

531
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:54,320
anger, but then it was like a failure feeling.

532
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:59,960
And then I had so many guys that I served with that would saw what I was doing, that

533
00:31:59,960 --> 00:32:02,520
would reach out to me or the guys that I stayed in touch with it.

534
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:05,920
Honestly, some of those guys just being like, Hey man, I'm really proud of you and what

535
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:06,920
you're doing.

536
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:10,000
I think those are really the pieces that hit me really hard because I wanted to be with

537
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:14,440
them, but I appreciate so much them coming back and speaking into my life.

538
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:22,520
So I think that was kind of the process that I went through for that.

539
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:28,880
And law enforcement honestly was a big piece of my life.

540
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:33,120
As much as I tried to give to them, whether it be in pro bono work or working with teams

541
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:38,840
and just trying to give my expertise for free, not expecting anything back, I formed a lot

542
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:43,480
of relationships and friendships that also spoke into my life that I think again helped

543
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:47,440
me kind of crawl out of that dark time.

544
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:49,720
You touched on fitness testing before.

545
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:53,920
I'd love to unpack that before we get into the kind of high performance shooting in that

546
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:54,920
area.

547
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,400
Here's how correlated to the strength and conditioning side.

548
00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:59,100
There is a time and place.

549
00:32:59,100 --> 00:33:07,320
If your job requires you to have, let's just for simplicity, agility, cardio, strength,

550
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:08,320
lower body strength.

551
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:10,000
Let's just say those three things.

552
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:11,000
Okay.

553
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:17,760
So agility, if I want to test to know James's agility every year, let's run the 510.5 or

554
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:19,440
the Pro Agility, right?

555
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:20,560
It's a validated test.

556
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:24,360
It's very specific to agility.

557
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:29,320
Cardio let's run the mile and a half or two miles, whatever it is that directly correlates

558
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:36,320
to your aerobic capacity or aerobic endurance, aerobic.

559
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:42,880
If we want to lower body strength, let's do a one rep max of either back squat or deadlift,

560
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:44,440
let's say, right?

561
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:48,760
Those will give me very specific information where James is on those specific measures

562
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:53,020
if those are the things that are most used in his job.

563
00:33:53,020 --> 00:33:57,280
From there, have a separate test that says exactly what you're saying in CPAT.

564
00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:00,040
I think that like I've seen those before.

565
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,360
There's a time and place to check, can you perform the job?

566
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:04,360
Right?

567
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:05,360
Yes or no.

568
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:09,920
I don't care gender, age, whatever it is, can you do the tasks that we do at every single

569
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:10,920
job?

570
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:11,920
Yes.

571
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:12,920
Okay.

572
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:13,920
He can keep his job.

573
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:18,080
If James comes to me though and says, hey man, how do I get better to be like Billy Bob?

574
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:19,080
Okay.

575
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:25,640
Well, if I don't understand that those strengths, cardio and agility are the metrics that are

576
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:30,120
going to make him good at his job, all I'm going to say is like, man, you just need to

577
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:32,200
try harder, James.

578
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:33,920
Put your fire suit on faster.

579
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:34,920
I don't know.

580
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:35,920
I'm just trying to get things up.

581
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:39,680
But these are the things I can send it back to the gym and say, hey man, your cardio is

582
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:42,800
good, your strength is good, but your agility was crap.

583
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:45,960
That seems to be probably where I, but as a strength and addition coach, I can tell

584
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,880
you directly, that's where I need you to be better.

585
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:50,960
There's GPP and there's the SPP side.

586
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:51,960
Right?

587
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,560
And I think understanding those two things, well, now as a strength coach, if I don't

588
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:58,080
understand your job, SPP is really hard for me to train.

589
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:00,720
I can just do on the GPP side.

590
00:35:00,720 --> 00:35:01,720
Right?

591
00:35:01,720 --> 00:35:05,960
So coming all the way back to the testing, this is what I tell teams because teams will

592
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,040
come to me with these good ideas.

593
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:12,680
Hey man, we're trying to bring in new recruits and we're going to test these recruits or

594
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:14,320
we want to test people on our job.

595
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:17,760
We want to run around gas mask, blah, blah, blah, whatever.

596
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:18,760
Okay.

597
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:21,820
That's good if you want to check the box and say yes or no, they're capable.

598
00:35:21,820 --> 00:35:25,960
But if they don't understand what these other performance metrics are, if you don't understand

599
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:29,520
what these performance metrics are, it's going to be really hard to tell them how to go into

600
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:31,920
the gym and fix those things.

601
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:33,040
Right?

602
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:37,160
And I think early on in my career, it took a lot of time to figure out what those different

603
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:42,720
things were and working with a lot of different teams, agencies, what did the research say?

604
00:35:42,720 --> 00:35:44,040
There's just so many variables.

605
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:49,060
It was not simple of like, ah, Cooper standards, that sucks.

606
00:35:49,060 --> 00:35:50,060
Run around the gas mask.

607
00:35:50,060 --> 00:35:51,060
Ah, that's right.

608
00:35:51,060 --> 00:35:52,060
You know what I mean?

609
00:35:52,060 --> 00:35:55,240
Like there's a lot of trial and error and understanding the education side, but also

610
00:35:55,240 --> 00:35:56,800
the application side.

611
00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:00,120
So the physical fitness testing was early on in my career.

612
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,400
It was just a journey.

613
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:07,640
I think what's interesting with the fire service is, I mean, for example, to get to a high

614
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:12,200
rise fire when the elevators are out, you're climbing tens and tens of stairs with a hundred

615
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:13,200
pounds on your back.

616
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:15,920
If you're doing a full high rise trip before you go to work.

617
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:20,240
And I think this is the harder thing to measure is really the muscular endurance.

618
00:36:20,240 --> 00:36:24,600
It's having the fitness on the load for prolonged periods of time, whether you're crawling,

619
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:30,080
whether you're dragging, whether you're advancing hoes, you know, it's not driving your car

620
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,040
and all of a sudden you're in a foot pursuit.

621
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:35,600
You know, there's a lot of encumbered carries and climbs that we have to do before we even

622
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:36,600
go to work.

623
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:37,600
Yep.

624
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:38,600
No, absolutely.

625
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:45,440
And that's where again, so to be very honest, like earlier in maybe early mid career, I

626
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:49,240
would have fire departments reach out and be like, and we had pretty big ones like Dallas

627
00:36:49,240 --> 00:36:53,960
Fire reach out and be like, Hey, can y'all come in and build those tests and build performance

628
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:58,200
programs just like you're doing for Dallas water, whoever.

629
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:01,440
And I would just tell them like, I don't understand y'all's job enough.

630
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:06,600
I feel like I'm doing a disservice by coming in and taking your money and being like, yeah,

631
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:08,920
here's this perfect thing that I've never tested.

632
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:10,560
I don't know enough about your job.

633
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:13,960
So it would take me time and effort, not in a bad way that I don't want to put effort

634
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:18,080
in, but it'd be time that I don't know if you have, and I don't know if I have to build,

635
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:19,080
right?

636
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:23,840
And so I think understanding those things, like you're saying the job function of it,

637
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:31,080
I hear that and I think either, you know, capacity piece or anaerobic endurance, but

638
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:33,920
then you obviously there's a strength component there.

639
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:37,600
But again, you have to be able to look at that job and say, this is what is needed and

640
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:39,160
then build it accordingly.

641
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:44,560
Whereas I feel so often, so those are, I would say more SPP.

642
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:49,280
And for maybe for listeners that don't understand, because I think you do, but SPP, the specific

643
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:55,120
physical preparedness or specialized physical preparedness or the general physical preparedness.

644
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:58,520
General just being like, just generally, are you in good health?

645
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:00,320
Generally are you in good standing?

646
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:04,640
Generally do you have strength, power, endurance, like any random person would?

647
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,440
Well, the specialized is kind of what I'm talking on.

648
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:12,080
And I think that's where we really tried to hang our hat as we built the company.

649
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:18,360
Specifically, specialized, what can I bring you for your job to make you better at your

650
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:19,600
job?

651
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:26,560
Not a football player, not a soccer mom, not a banker, law enforcement, special operations.

652
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,200
And obviously there's some bleeding over in the like military as well.

653
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:34,800
But that was the thing I think we really tried to hone in and look at as we've grown the

654
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:35,800
company.

655
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:41,040
But I do think it started in my early days because I think coming over from the military,

656
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:42,040
I was like, I got it.

657
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:43,040
It's law enforcement.

658
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:44,040
Ah, we're brothers, right?

659
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:47,560
Like I know what y'all do.

660
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:50,240
Very different, lots of differences, right?

661
00:38:50,240 --> 00:38:56,160
And when I stepped into it, all this building of tests, well, it helped me understand their

662
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:58,920
world because I was coming in doing job task analysis.

663
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:04,040
I was doing consulting and I was building these tests so I could very much understand

664
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:05,360
what is it that they needed?

665
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:06,360
What were they doing?

666
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:13,560
Well, then that transformed or morphed into performance side, injury mitigation.

667
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:16,840
Well then it transferred even further than that into the shooting and the direct application

668
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:18,640
and CQB and tactics.

669
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:23,360
Just to clarify, I don't teach those, but how do you move and use a firearm in those?

670
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:26,400
Well, you can do that from the human performance side.

671
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:28,240
You can use that from the mechanics side.

672
00:39:28,240 --> 00:39:34,240
But if I hadn't had that early in my career of actually building out tests, it would be

673
00:39:34,240 --> 00:39:36,640
a lot of guesswork for where I'm at now, right?

674
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:42,480
It would be theory to where I've able to take objective data and show the officers, well,

675
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:43,480
this is what you're doing.

676
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:46,200
And then we see performance.

677
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:51,240
So when you're programming now, you've been through this path, is it a parallel between

678
00:39:51,240 --> 00:39:55,200
a fitness component test and a job specific test combined?

679
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:59,240
Well, you know, two separate ones parallel?

680
00:39:59,240 --> 00:40:01,280
When we're testing or building programs?

681
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,120
I'd say testing for now.

682
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:05,120
Yeah.

683
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:10,240
So now as you are helping these teams in 2024 and you've progressed, you know, what would

684
00:40:10,240 --> 00:40:15,520
it look like as far as a presentation of a fitness test for a SWAT like organization?

685
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:17,200
So we don't do as much testing now.

686
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:19,100
So now we're coming in and building programs.

687
00:40:19,100 --> 00:40:21,560
We have so much data testing.

688
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:25,760
It's not that we're not trying to keep up with the data, but the testing we do now is

689
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:26,760
way different.

690
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:32,120
So we will do, sorry, I said that now I'm just straight going back on what I literally

691
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:34,400
just said, because it's just way different.

692
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:36,760
Now it's implemented into a class.

693
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:45,720
So we actually still do a speed, agility, power, and then capacity, so anaerobic endurance

694
00:40:45,720 --> 00:40:46,720
in our class.

695
00:40:46,720 --> 00:40:48,800
So just where are you physically?

696
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:52,960
But then we've turned around and we do those same tests now with a firearm in their hands.

697
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:57,120
So we want to see how do they move with a firearm and shoot.

698
00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:03,960
And that was one of the, some of the research we've done is where are you at physically?

699
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:08,560
And does that correlate to your shooting, specifically shooting with movement, which

700
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:10,960
has been very interesting.

701
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:20,100
We found some very key things that correlate.

702
00:41:20,100 --> 00:41:24,280
Some of it is with the higher performance physically, and the other one is competition

703
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:25,280
shooting.

704
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:27,160
That's maybe a whole different road to go down.

705
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:31,160
But in terms of testing, it's very simple.

706
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:35,360
We have simplified it, maybe I would say from back then to now in 2024.

707
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:40,240
We've simplified it and we send out a report that says these are your strengths.

708
00:41:40,240 --> 00:41:45,080
This is where you ranked out of 400 SWAT officers across the country from full time, part time

709
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:46,080
teams.

710
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:50,160
And we give those people that information back on this is exactly where you performed,

711
00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:52,640
but here's how you can get better at these exact things.

712
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:54,600
Does that make sense?

713
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:56,160
Yeah, absolutely.

714
00:41:56,160 --> 00:42:00,760
Whereas I think a lot of the tests that I've seen don't give them that specificity on

715
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:02,480
this is where you're weak.

716
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:05,120
Here's how you can get better at it.

717
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:11,880
So we talked before we hit record about the niche area that you found yourself combining

718
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:16,200
human movement with the shooting accuracy, the shooting skills.

719
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:20,160
So when did you start seeing that need?

720
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:22,640
And then talk to me about that.

721
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:25,080
What is the deficit of some of these trainings?

722
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:30,640
And I'm sure this is going to tie into lack of fitness standards that results in a poorer

723
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:34,080
performance with someone in law enforcement with their weapons specifically.

724
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:35,080
Right.

725
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:37,160
This is a good question.

726
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:41,000
This is actually going to go all the way back to the very first question about sports and

727
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:42,000
youth.

728
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:46,200
So I will circle back.

729
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:50,720
So once I got out, when I was finished my doctorate, I was able to go to USASOC and

730
00:42:50,720 --> 00:42:51,720
I was doing all these testing.

731
00:42:51,720 --> 00:42:55,280
I worked with a lot of the federal teams early on in my career.

732
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:56,960
We were building all this human performance pack.

733
00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:58,520
So we were coming in and testing.

734
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:01,840
We were also building human performance packages.

735
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:05,560
As I mentioned, we would come into a lot of these federal teams and we would do a job

736
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:07,600
task analysis.

737
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:12,260
What that looks like for us, we would come in, we would see the people on their teams.

738
00:43:12,260 --> 00:43:13,420
We would go into the shoot houses.

739
00:43:13,420 --> 00:43:20,560
We would see what are their mission capabilities, whether it's a lot more CQB, was it where

740
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:24,360
they do a lot more vehicles, were they sitting in their vehicle stage somewhere, was it a

741
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:28,280
lot more executive protection or dignitary protection, whatever you want to call it.

742
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:30,520
We would go in and look at what was the application.

743
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:32,660
Well, then we would reverse engineer it.

744
00:43:32,660 --> 00:43:35,240
We would go to the gym with them and watch what they were doing there.

745
00:43:35,240 --> 00:43:37,560
We would go to the shoot house, watch what they were doing there.

746
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:39,920
So we worked with a lot of really high level teams.

747
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:48,600
I was super fortunate early in my career to be invited out to a pretty special place.

748
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:50,640
And in that world, it's a lot of word of mouth.

749
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:53,800
So there was a lot of phone calls that were made and I was able to go to some places that

750
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:55,520
I think a lot of people don't.

751
00:43:55,520 --> 00:44:01,320
Specifically, one of the places in DC I was with, we went out, we were doing a job task

752
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:05,520
analysis and I'd seen it, but I hadn't identified it quite yet of what I felt like the problem

753
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:06,520
was.

754
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:07,520
But I was with this unit.

755
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:09,760
We went out and we saw what they did for vehicles.

756
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:10,760
We saw them do CQB.

757
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:13,800
I saw a lot of movement.

758
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:18,760
Exiting vehicles, running to positions, engaging, moving to a next position, engaging, lots

759
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:19,760
of movement.

760
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:23,440
Went to the shoot house, watched them run CQB inside the house.

761
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:25,440
Movement, movement, movement.

762
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:29,560
Went to the flat range, stand there.

763
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:30,560
Zero movement whatsoever.

764
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:32,840
And I'm not knocking on that unit.

765
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:34,000
I'm super close to that unit.

766
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:38,840
I still train that unit a lot today.

767
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:39,840
I mean zero.

768
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:40,840
It was all static.

769
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:44,840
It was just standing there delivering with a gun.

770
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:46,160
I was very fortunate at that time.

771
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:52,440
I'd grown a relationship with that unit and I asked the team leader, I was like, hey man,

772
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:54,000
why don't you all do movement?

773
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:56,440
And he was like, I don't know.

774
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:58,280
That's a good question.

775
00:44:58,280 --> 00:44:59,280
What would you do?

776
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:02,160
And I was like hadn't thought that far ahead.

777
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:03,160
Dang it.

778
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:04,160
Right.

779
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:08,000
And so literally he was like, show up with a plan tomorrow morning.

780
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:10,040
Because we had also done a block in the gym.

781
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:12,560
We had taught and we have them running around.

782
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:15,080
We had implemented movement on everything because that's what we saw them do with their

783
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:16,080
job.

784
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:18,640
And so he was like, show up with a plan tomorrow.

785
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:19,640
And I was like, cool.

786
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:23,480
So I went back to my hotel and I jammed together what I thought was a good plan of like, how

787
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:25,920
am I getting these guys moving from things I saw?

788
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:30,760
And I was just literally reverse engineering how I saw them exit a vehicle and move, but

789
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:34,040
then really how I saw them move in CQB.

790
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:40,600
And I just tried to break it down to its simplest forms in my own experience with it of creating

791
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:43,560
pretty much straight line movements.

792
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:47,520
And then how do I move that onto the flat range?

793
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:49,240
I came in the next morning with a plan.

794
00:45:49,240 --> 00:45:54,400
I tried to pretty much just build out isolated and then start stacking on and progressing.

795
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:56,680
And he goes, okay, well show us how to do it.

796
00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:59,680
And I was like, all right.

797
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:03,360
I'm not bad at shooting with a gun, but at that time in my career, I was kind of like,

798
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:04,360
meh.

799
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:06,360
So I was like, hey, just pay attention to my movement.

800
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:09,640
I was a division one football player, so I could move well, but the shooting was not

801
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:10,840
so much my thing.

802
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:15,320
But I left there embarrassed, but at the same time I left there with like, hey, I think

803
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:17,520
there's something here.

804
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:21,880
And so I took it upon myself to come back and I built a whole curriculum off of that.

805
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:24,320
To where one, I built a curriculum.

806
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:30,560
Two, I started training on how to shoot and move at a higher level to where I'm at today.

807
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:32,440
And that was kind of how this all kickstarted.

808
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:36,600
To where I identified this deficiency and I saw it with him and I was fortunate to have

809
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:38,620
a good relationship with them.

810
00:46:38,620 --> 00:46:42,000
But I started thinking back to all the other units I was training with, whether it be from

811
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:47,560
a part-time local special operations unit to a full-time, very high level federal special

812
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:51,440
operations unit, I saw it at all of them.

813
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:57,960
So then from there is where this two-day class that I built that really ignited to where

814
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:00,800
we are now, that's where that class came from.

815
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:03,620
That was kind of my realization of like, hey, I think there's something here that has not

816
00:47:03,620 --> 00:47:04,620
been done.

817
00:47:04,620 --> 00:47:10,480
And if it has, as I've advanced in my career, there's maybe one or two places it's done

818
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:14,440
on some variation, but not to what we're doing at that level.

819
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:17,280
Obviously, I come from the fire world.

820
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:21,000
I've done some weapons classes, but I'm still an absolute white belt.

821
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:22,600
Maybe I've got one little stripe on my belt.

822
00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:24,440
That's about it.

823
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:27,360
But I've obviously had these conversations with a lot of people from the military, from

824
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:28,360
law enforcement.

825
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:31,760
And one of the ones that really stuck out early in the podcast was Lieutenant Colonel

826
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:32,760
Dave Grossman.

827
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:39,880
And he talked about one famous, infamous shooting where a police officer was killed and he had

828
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:46,040
the brass in his hand because of the training scars of being at the range static and being

829
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:49,680
told, you know, pick up your brass so they would hold their brass.

830
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:53,480
What were you seeing kind of nationally when you start getting to the law enforcement side

831
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:59,520
of the training scars of simply qualifying in a static range once or twice a year?

832
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:01,640
Oh boy.

833
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:03,160
Yeah.

834
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:06,440
So that story is infamous.

835
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:09,240
That is not the only one though, right?

836
00:48:09,240 --> 00:48:13,760
And so yeah, I'm not going to identify that team.

837
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:20,800
But interesting enough where this was like this concept was really, really loud to me

838
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:22,880
was again, I'm still early in my career.

839
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:26,560
I'm figuring out like the gun piece and where it supplies to all the human performance stuff

840
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:27,560
I'm doing.

841
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:28,560
Are other people doing this?

842
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:31,480
You know, all this kind of because I was trying to like, is there a template I can follow?

843
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:32,840
No, I'm not finding one.

844
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:34,240
So you're trailblazing at that point.

845
00:48:34,240 --> 00:48:37,640
You're learning a lot of wrongs and some rights.

846
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:42,520
But I was training with this team, similar concept.

847
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:46,160
They would shoot fire three rounds standing, then they would drop down kneeling and they

848
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:50,040
would fire three rounds in that one, moved to a different position.

849
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:51,720
And I'm not kidding you.

850
00:48:51,720 --> 00:48:53,200
I went to this team.

851
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:56,400
I was teaching, I was doing actual that fitness and the shooting testing.

852
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:58,960
I wasn't even teaching shooting at that point.

853
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:02,800
A dude literally had his jaw wired shut.

854
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:04,280
He was at his house.

855
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:08,480
These two people, he lived off of a road obviously, but I kind of want to say it was a highway

856
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:11,640
firm call on some acreage.

857
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:18,000
Two people were road raging, drove through his front gate, were chasing each other around

858
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:19,000
in the front yard.

859
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:21,040
One was shooting at the other.

860
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:25,600
The SWAT officer gets his gun, a Glock 17 for those of you who don't know has at least

861
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:31,440
17, I guess 18 if you have plus one, goes out into his front yard, thinks that he's

862
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:35,680
going to the person that's in distress and he walks up and knocks with the gun in the

863
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:39,120
lower, but knocks on the window and says, Hey, are you okay?

864
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:40,120
You okay?

865
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:43,840
That person thinking he was the person that was chasing them, shooting at him, shoots

866
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:45,800
him in the face.

867
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:51,880
They speed off to both of the vehicles and this guy, it shot him through the jaw and

868
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:55,960
out the other side, grabs his gun.

869
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:58,360
One, two, three drops to a knee.

870
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:00,600
One, two, three.

871
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:04,520
And to this day, I still remember this guy vividly because he's talking to me with a

872
00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:06,320
large mouth like this.

873
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:10,480
And I did not even at that time know that story that you're referencing.

874
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:16,520
I've since heard it many times, but I remember being like, how is that possible?

875
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:22,480
He had 17 rounds and he fired six in the exact same course of fire.

876
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:26,560
And I remember just being like, and talking to them and they had identified this in their

877
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:27,560
training.

878
00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:28,560
This team was pretty progressive.

879
00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:33,200
And they were like, dude, till that happened, we did not understand how static we were and

880
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:37,120
how much of a training scar we had built in our guys.

881
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:39,000
He didn't even remember it.

882
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:40,000
He just straight defaulted.

883
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:43,800
I mean, he'd been shot in the face, so I'm sure he's in shock, but he literally is defaulted

884
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:46,640
to one, two, three, one, two, three.

885
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:49,300
And I remember it early in my career.

886
00:50:49,300 --> 00:50:56,680
That is since advanced to where I did, I thought that's just a part time local SWAT team.

887
00:50:56,680 --> 00:51:00,960
Man, I'll tell you straight up, like the stuff that we're going in and teach every single

888
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:05,800
unit we've ever taught, I've yet to meet one that's like, we have full training days like

889
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:10,640
this that are fully focused movement because that's what we do more than anything in our

890
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:11,640
job.

891
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:13,640
You go on YouTube and look for officer of offshooting.

892
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:16,320
Good, bad, any of them.

893
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:20,520
I don't like to throw out random numbers because I am pretty data driven, but I would guess

894
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:24,200
easy, easy 75%.

895
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:31,440
Look closer at 90% officer of all shootings when you watch them, probably the officer,

896
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:36,040
but definitely the officer and the bad guy are moving.

897
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:41,520
And so as I go work with all these law enforcement agencies, I'm like, why is nobody moving?

898
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:43,520
Why is it?

899
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:44,680
Okay.

900
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:46,320
James asked me the question.

901
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:47,320
Why is no one moving?

902
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:48,640
Okay, here's why.

903
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:57,360
When I asked that question, literally the answer I'm given is safety, time and or resources.

904
00:51:57,360 --> 00:51:59,960
And those are the answers.

905
00:51:59,960 --> 00:52:03,800
And it's like, okay, so help me understand this.

906
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:06,880
In the training academy, now advanced to SWAT.

907
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:08,220
Well, we don't teach movement.

908
00:52:08,220 --> 00:52:11,080
We don't teach a lot of movement because of safety.

909
00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:14,280
Sorry, hang on a second.

910
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:17,260
So we don't teach movement for safety, but then we're like, yeah, go out on the street.

911
00:52:17,260 --> 00:52:18,720
It should be fine.

912
00:52:18,720 --> 00:52:19,720
And then 75 to 90%.

913
00:52:19,720 --> 00:52:22,000
And again, I'm making those numbers up.

914
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:25,040
That's not documented anywhere that I know of anyway.

915
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:27,100
The officer is moving.

916
00:52:27,100 --> 00:52:28,640
That seems like a problem to me.

917
00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:32,520
I just realized that's why they shout freeze because they're not trained to hit moving

918
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:33,520
people.

919
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:34,520
Now it all makes sense.

920
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:35,520
Seriously, hey, stay right there.

921
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:36,520
Don't move.

922
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:37,520
This makes sense.

923
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:38,520
I remember the paper.

924
00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:39,520
No.

925
00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:47,240
You know, like I'll joke aside, like I, early on, like I, that's the answer I was given.

926
00:52:47,240 --> 00:52:48,960
We don't have the time for it.

927
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:53,420
We don't have the amount of bullets to shoot and it's for safety reasons.

928
00:52:53,420 --> 00:52:54,560
Early on, that's what I was told.

929
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:58,440
And I still, people will say that to me when I, I don't so much ask anymore because I kind

930
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:00,440
of, I feel like at least I've had enough experience.

931
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:04,960
I kind of know the answer, but what I really realized, I think the bigger deficiency is

932
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:05,960
just education.

933
00:53:05,960 --> 00:53:06,960
They don't know.

934
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:09,220
They don't know how.

935
00:53:09,220 --> 00:53:12,800
What teams that do implement movement, what they do is they say, Hey, here's the course

936
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:13,800
of fire.

937
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:14,800
Start right here.

938
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:17,400
You run over here, fire five rounds.

939
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:18,400
Okay.

940
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:20,600
Well, you're just telling somebody to move and shoot.

941
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:23,800
You're not actually teaching them how to move.

942
00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:24,800
So go to the fire world.

943
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:28,920
And again, please give me some grace here because I don't know anything about fires,

944
00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:34,600
but I'm sure there is a way that you should carry.

945
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:36,320
Firefighters are amazing breacher's right?

946
00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:40,880
A lot of the breaching in the SWAT world comes from the fire world.

947
00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:45,120
So how to carry a halogen is just as example, right?

948
00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:50,760
There's a way that's more efficient to run with that thing than another, right?

949
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:54,920
Trying to balance it on my finger versus like two hands and running with it, right?

950
00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:56,320
Is it going to be more efficient?

951
00:53:56,320 --> 00:53:58,160
How to actually use that tool.

952
00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:03,040
There's body mechanics that make way more sense how to use that thing effectively than

953
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:05,520
not, right?

954
00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:08,000
The same things apply with, with firearms.

955
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:11,440
There's more efficient ways to do it than less efficient ways.

956
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:16,400
And I think some of those have been identified in as an example, mechanically, how to hold

957
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:17,580
the firearm.

958
00:54:17,580 --> 00:54:19,120
So we don't shoot teacup anymore.

959
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:20,400
Bang, bang, bang.

960
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:22,200
We shoot two hands on like this, right?

961
00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:23,200
Well, why?

962
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:26,480
Because it's more efficient in managing that recoil.

963
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:30,640
So there's things that we've done that with in the, I'm just going to blanket tactical

964
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:34,480
world, whether it be fire or law enforcement or EMS.

965
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:38,760
The thing that I saw as massive efficiency though is like, no one had taught them how

966
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:40,520
to move.

967
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:45,440
When people, one of the rebuttals I'll get, well, I've been moving for 30 years.

968
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:46,440
That doesn't mean it's right.

969
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:51,480
Like that doesn't mean like Tom Brady's been moving for 30 years or whoever name, whatever

970
00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:54,160
NFL player, but they still have a strength and conditioning coach.

971
00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:58,880
They still have a quarterback coach that helped them move better.

972
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:04,120
And that was where I saw the deficiency was it wasn't so much from a safety thing.

973
00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:07,600
I think safety was an out for a lot of the training side.

974
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:10,500
It was more, they didn't know how to train it.

975
00:55:10,500 --> 00:55:13,520
And I think that's one of the big things that we've kind of come in with is, well, that

976
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:15,840
is our expertise, is movement.

977
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:16,960
We understand the biomechanics.

978
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:18,320
We understand kinesiology.

979
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:23,480
We understand how to move mechanically well.

980
00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:26,800
Well, now where I'm just teaching you how to do with a firearm in your hands and the

981
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:32,400
implications it has when you do it well versus whenever you don't move well, you can still

982
00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:35,360
shoot just what problems are you going to run into?

983
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:36,680
Does that make sense?

984
00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:38,240
It does completely.

985
00:55:38,240 --> 00:55:39,240
Yeah.

986
00:55:39,240 --> 00:55:45,560
What about the relationship between what we talked about earlier, all the pillars of performance,

987
00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:49,880
the aerobic, the anaerobic, the flexibility or mobility?

988
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:56,200
What were the correlations between someone who already was moving well, the same in a

989
00:55:56,200 --> 00:56:01,200
prior occupation, an athlete, whatever, and maybe one of the less conditioned officers?

990
00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:08,280
Did you see a pretty linear kind of relationship between physical ability and actual accuracy

991
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:09,600
on the range?

992
00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:10,600
We did.

993
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:16,640
So the more highly trained from a physical fitness perspective were our top performers

994
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:17,640
on shooting.

995
00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:21,680
However, Kama, we looked at, like you said, a lot of those independent variables.

996
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:26,160
We also have a survey that we've, I'm not sure what number we're up to, probably six

997
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:30,720
or 700 survey that we've, excuse me.

998
00:56:30,720 --> 00:56:32,600
We capture a lot of data.

999
00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:34,520
How many rounds do you fire a month?

1000
00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:42,160
How many ranges, excuse me, how many days on the range do you train movement?

1001
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:43,840
Who builds your workouts?

1002
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:46,400
What you're eating or dietary habits?

1003
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:49,240
It's a battery of questions.

1004
00:56:49,240 --> 00:56:54,980
All that to say, the people that performed higher performed higher.

1005
00:56:54,980 --> 00:56:57,840
We could not isolate out a single variable.

1006
00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:02,320
However, Kama, we could not isolate out a single variable.

1007
00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:10,360
So the correlation that I, this is kind of Jake's pulling, there was one, there's a couple,

1008
00:57:10,360 --> 00:57:13,640
I think agility or speed, I can't remember which one of those was one of them.

1009
00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:16,840
So the better speed or agility you had, I'm pretty sure it's agility because it's more

1010
00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:18,180
technical skill.

1011
00:57:18,180 --> 00:57:21,820
You also had higher, but the other big one was competition shooting.

1012
00:57:21,820 --> 00:57:27,920
If you have ever, or if you can, or you shoot competitions, so like shooting matches, we

1013
00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:31,840
saw that they had a higher performance on the dynamic shooting.

1014
00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:34,040
So that was our biggest indicator.

1015
00:57:34,040 --> 00:57:45,440
If you out of 10 people, if I want to say it's a 75%, if you say yes, there's a 75%

1016
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:49,800
chance you were going to be in the top 70 in this top 75 percentile.

1017
00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:58,500
So 75 and 75, but the top 25%, there's a 70% chance you were going to be in that top 25%

1018
00:57:58,500 --> 00:58:01,440
if you have shot matches before.

1019
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:08,000
If you're not a big shooter, you may not know this, but that is a massive debate slash what's

1020
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:10,120
what I'm looking for.

1021
00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:15,000
Argument hate, hates maybe a little strong in the tactical world and the competition

1022
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:16,000
world.

1023
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:18,280
There's a lot of bickering about like, Oh, when those paper targets are shooting back

1024
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:21,200
at just I'll start running matches.

1025
00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:22,440
Okay.

1026
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:23,440
It's a training skill.

1027
00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:25,640
It's just another way to train regardless.

1028
00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:29,960
I'd address that is one of the biggest things we saw in terms of performance.

1029
00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:34,380
Why do I think that all those other metrics, maybe we couldn't isolate one versus another.

1030
00:58:34,380 --> 00:58:39,520
What I personally think is if you're dedicated to your physical fitness, you're probably

1031
00:58:39,520 --> 00:58:42,840
going to be dedicated to your firearms training as well.

1032
00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:44,440
And that is what we saw.

1033
00:58:44,440 --> 00:58:48,200
It was not so much a very specific one that you, because I would love to be like, Hey,

1034
00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:49,200
James, great.

1035
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:52,000
You're a white belt with a stripe in shooting.

1036
00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:55,640
If you want to be a brown belt, all you got to do is focus on speed work.

1037
00:58:55,640 --> 00:58:56,640
Right?

1038
00:58:56,640 --> 00:58:57,640
Like I would love to be able to do that.

1039
00:58:57,640 --> 00:58:59,040
Unfortunately, that's not what we found.

1040
00:58:59,040 --> 00:59:01,480
We found if you go shoot matches, it's a very solid start.

1041
00:59:01,480 --> 00:59:05,680
And we found, I think it was agility, but it wasn't the strong of a correlation.

1042
00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:09,560
Now when you say matches, I'm assuming it is these dynamic shooting matches that I see

1043
00:59:09,560 --> 00:59:12,240
versus that Turkish gangster.

1044
00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:16,000
Like they say raw dog in it.

1045
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:22,400
Yeah, definitely not the Turkish gangster shooting static and his cool pose.

1046
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:23,400
No, yeah.

1047
00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:30,240
So the matches generally that we saw or we classified it as there's USPSA, there's IDPA,

1048
00:59:30,240 --> 00:59:32,700
there's IPSIC, which is international version.

1049
00:59:32,700 --> 00:59:38,920
And then we even classify in there the tactile games, which is a newer shooting competition.

1050
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:43,200
But really it's USPSA and IDPA, I would say are the big ones.

1051
00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:45,560
There's three gun, two gun, stuff like that as well.

1052
00:59:45,560 --> 00:59:49,960
They're generally because they are, they're teaching these shooters to come in and train

1053
00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:53,920
shooting and movement at a very high level.

1054
00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:58,000
And as much as guys don't like it, it's a great training skill.

1055
00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:02,600
Doesn't mean one or the other, but it's a good skill if that's your job requires shooting.

1056
01:00:02,600 --> 01:00:03,600
Absolutely.

1057
01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:08,600
Well, going back to a comment you made about the resistance for some of this training,

1058
01:00:08,600 --> 01:00:12,360
because people quote unquote might get hurt, which I've heard all the time.

1059
01:00:12,360 --> 01:00:18,240
And you take a step back and you see the likelihood of injury or in law enforcement's world getting

1060
01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:19,480
killed.

1061
01:00:19,480 --> 01:00:24,800
If you're not training with realism, as far outweighs a twisted ankle or whatever might

1062
01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:28,720
happen or will happen, this is a dynamic training.

1063
01:00:28,720 --> 01:00:32,540
That backward mentality has always driven me crazy that this kind of like lowering of

1064
01:00:32,540 --> 01:00:39,560
standards and softening of training to try and kind of please some HR department rather

1065
01:00:39,560 --> 01:00:45,800
than setting our first responders up for success, like an MMA where the cage should feel relatively

1066
01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:47,560
easy compared to the gym.

1067
01:00:47,560 --> 01:00:48,560
Yeah.

1068
01:00:48,560 --> 01:00:49,560
Yeah.

1069
01:00:49,560 --> 01:00:50,560
No, you're spot on.

1070
01:00:50,560 --> 01:00:51,560
I think it's a double edged sword.

1071
01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:56,600
So in the, in the, in the tattoo world, one of the common phrases I've heard for quite

1072
01:00:56,600 --> 01:00:59,400
some time is train like you fight.

1073
01:00:59,400 --> 01:01:00,400
Right.

1074
01:01:00,400 --> 01:01:03,800
Um, I think there's been some good things that came from that, but I think there's been

1075
01:01:03,800 --> 01:01:05,120
a lot of bad things too.

1076
01:01:05,120 --> 01:01:06,120
Right.

1077
01:01:06,120 --> 01:01:09,760
So in the double edged sword piece, there is that train like you fight mentality of

1078
01:01:09,760 --> 01:01:13,160
understanding what is it that we're training towards.

1079
01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:16,920
But then the negative pieces is hang on a second though, we're, we're, we're not in

1080
01:01:16,920 --> 01:01:17,920
the fight right now.

1081
01:01:17,920 --> 01:01:20,240
We need to be training for those specific pieces.

1082
01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:25,240
So use that, the fight to identify the most common variables, but then we've got to go

1083
01:01:25,240 --> 01:01:26,880
train those variables independently.

1084
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:27,880
Right.

1085
01:01:27,880 --> 01:01:33,400
Because one of the things I see sometimes is agencies and teams will be like, Hey, well,

1086
01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:38,240
we had this officer involved shooting or we had this one, one, the operation, right.

1087
01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:41,520
The hostage rescue that went bad or went right or whatever.

1088
01:01:41,520 --> 01:01:42,520
Right.

1089
01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:45,900
Well, then they go and they get so focused on and they, they build every, they're training

1090
01:01:45,900 --> 01:01:51,800
around this and it's never that, but the, these concepts and it's like, hang on a second,

1091
01:01:51,800 --> 01:01:58,000
come back to this variable, these, the independent variables and then stack those variables.

1092
01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:00,240
And then we go into more of that realistic training.

1093
01:02:00,240 --> 01:02:01,240
Right.

1094
01:02:01,240 --> 01:02:03,040
But there's a process that has to be done.

1095
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:06,600
So often, and this is not just a Jake thing.

1096
01:02:06,600 --> 01:02:13,200
I I've trained, I've been very fortunate because the movement that I've implemented into the

1097
01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:19,500
shooting community has taken off, but I've been very fortunate because it's afforded

1098
01:02:19,500 --> 01:02:25,080
me the opportunity to train with some of the highest level shooters out there because,

1099
01:02:25,080 --> 01:02:27,920
Hey, surprise, surprise.

1100
01:02:27,920 --> 01:02:29,920
They want to find that edge.

1101
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:31,560
They want to find that next step.

1102
01:02:31,560 --> 01:02:34,760
And so I've been able to go in with some of these shooters and they're like, Hey, show

1103
01:02:34,760 --> 01:02:36,120
me what you got.

1104
01:02:36,120 --> 01:02:37,120
Right.

1105
01:02:37,120 --> 01:02:41,360
Because it is very mechanically driven that I don't think anybody was doing at the time.

1106
01:02:41,360 --> 01:02:44,520
Well, from going and training with these high level shooters, it allowed me to be a better

1107
01:02:44,520 --> 01:02:45,520
shooter.

1108
01:02:45,520 --> 01:02:46,520
Right.

1109
01:02:46,520 --> 01:02:47,520
Cause I don't want to go out and just get dusted by these guys.

1110
01:02:47,520 --> 01:02:49,080
So I want to come out and not look like a dingling.

1111
01:02:49,080 --> 01:02:54,100
Well, what I found was these guys, this is where their training lives.

1112
01:02:54,100 --> 01:02:59,240
They train the fundamentals so they can do it on demand every time at a fast speed.

1113
01:02:59,240 --> 01:03:03,680
Well, what I see with some of these agencies, the train, like you fight mentality, they

1114
01:03:03,680 --> 01:03:05,940
only want to look for this up here.

1115
01:03:05,940 --> 01:03:08,200
And so they're not getting good at anything.

1116
01:03:08,200 --> 01:03:10,040
They're just getting good at that one baby scenario.

1117
01:03:10,040 --> 01:03:12,640
Well, now we move that to the human performance side.

1118
01:03:12,640 --> 01:03:15,440
We were seeing the same thing, man.

1119
01:03:15,440 --> 01:03:17,440
I got to train the fight gone bad, right?

1120
01:03:17,440 --> 01:03:19,200
Everybody's heard of fight gone bad.

1121
01:03:19,200 --> 01:03:20,680
I got to train the fight gone bad.

1122
01:03:20,680 --> 01:03:22,160
Well, I got it.

1123
01:03:22,160 --> 01:03:28,200
Maybe that is a real scenario, but right now you're running on two hours of sleep over

1124
01:03:28,200 --> 01:03:29,720
the last week.

1125
01:03:29,720 --> 01:03:31,880
You're going through a divorce.

1126
01:03:31,880 --> 01:03:35,520
You got an officer involved shooting the week before that.

1127
01:03:35,520 --> 01:03:38,360
And now you're walking into the gym and you're like, I got to get better.

1128
01:03:38,360 --> 01:03:40,000
We'll train like you fight, fight gone bad.

1129
01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:42,800
I'm going to tell you what's probably going to happen.

1130
01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:47,320
You have, I'm not a fortune teller, but you probably have an injury in your future.

1131
01:03:47,320 --> 01:03:48,320
Right.

1132
01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:52,920
And so I think that there's this, this balance between exactly what you're saying.

1133
01:03:52,920 --> 01:03:55,320
Cause I also agree on the opposite side of it.

1134
01:03:55,320 --> 01:04:00,040
We have the HR command side, they're like, we just need to sign that piece of paper saying

1135
01:04:00,040 --> 01:04:04,440
that he's in, he or she is in good standing.

1136
01:04:04,440 --> 01:04:08,880
You're not helping them get closer to when they have to perform at that fight.

1137
01:04:08,880 --> 01:04:12,440
You're actually giving them a crutch because you're not pushing them and challenging them.

1138
01:04:12,440 --> 01:04:15,080
But on the flip side of it again, is that other piece.

1139
01:04:15,080 --> 01:04:19,160
So there's this, there's balance that we've had to learn of how do we train this person

1140
01:04:19,160 --> 01:04:23,840
that wants to go hard in the paint and how do we push them at the same time and prepare

1141
01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:28,560
them for when that situation comes.

1142
01:04:28,560 --> 01:04:31,280
I think that's where the worlds must collide.

1143
01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:32,280
Right.

1144
01:04:32,280 --> 01:04:35,280
Like I have to have my expertise and how to do the human performance.

1145
01:04:35,280 --> 01:04:39,160
I need my expertise and apply the application of shooting to the movement.

1146
01:04:39,160 --> 01:04:44,360
But at the same time, like if I don't understand their world and what is required, that's a

1147
01:04:44,360 --> 01:04:49,440
massive piece missed because as much as everybody wants to be pipe hitters and say that they

1148
01:04:49,440 --> 01:04:53,600
run CQB all day and do all these cool things, there's a better chance they're going to pull

1149
01:04:53,600 --> 01:04:56,920
their hamstring because they've been sitting in a car for a long time and all of a sudden

1150
01:04:56,920 --> 01:05:00,800
have to jump out and chase somebody for that long.

1151
01:05:00,800 --> 01:05:03,120
And so anyway, there's just a lot of pieces there.

1152
01:05:03,120 --> 01:05:05,360
The dynamic is not clear cut.

1153
01:05:05,360 --> 01:05:08,120
And I think too many people have tried to make it black and white.

1154
01:05:08,120 --> 01:05:10,040
I think that there's a lot of gray there.

1155
01:05:10,040 --> 01:05:14,520
And if you don't understand both sides though, you're more than likely going to miss a piece

1156
01:05:14,520 --> 01:05:16,280
in my opinion.

1157
01:05:16,280 --> 01:05:18,920
You mentioned two hours sleep and people listen to this.

1158
01:05:18,920 --> 01:05:22,800
I talk about sleep deprivation all the time and I always talk, especially when it comes

1159
01:05:22,800 --> 01:05:29,480
to law enforcement, not the black or the white cause, not the ones, the George Floyd or the

1160
01:05:29,480 --> 01:05:31,400
one where the police officer did nothing wrong.

1161
01:05:31,400 --> 01:05:36,600
It was a complete good shoot, but the gray area ones, the car that did run from them

1162
01:05:36,600 --> 01:05:41,000
and then the teenager panicked and now he's reaching his glove box to get a driving license,

1163
01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:42,760
but they think it's a gun.

1164
01:05:42,760 --> 01:05:47,300
It's those kind of thought processes that have happened.

1165
01:05:47,300 --> 01:05:52,880
No one ever says, when did that officer last sleep, were they forced to say another shift?

1166
01:05:52,880 --> 01:05:57,120
So talk to me about your observation of the environment that law enforcement works in.

1167
01:05:57,120 --> 01:06:00,660
In the fire, their hours are absolutely insane.

1168
01:06:00,660 --> 01:06:05,000
But in law enforcement, you think about 10, 12, whatever they've worked, and then you

1169
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:07,640
think about the recruitment crisis.

1170
01:06:07,640 --> 01:06:11,800
We are so overstaffed in law enforcement, a lot of these men and women are being forced

1171
01:06:11,800 --> 01:06:16,180
to work even more, so arguably are hugely under slept.

1172
01:06:16,180 --> 01:06:19,760
So what have you observed of that in general?

1173
01:06:19,760 --> 01:06:23,760
And then the impact of that on their ability to perform at this high level that you're

1174
01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:25,760
trying to squeeze out of them?

1175
01:06:25,760 --> 01:06:30,360
Yeah, that's a really good question.

1176
01:06:30,360 --> 01:06:33,400
I'll pick the low hanging fruit first.

1177
01:06:33,400 --> 01:06:39,280
Man, which I know you know the answer, but there have been legitimate studies done on

1178
01:06:39,280 --> 01:06:44,240
lack of sleep deprivation or sleep deprivation, lack of sleep.

1179
01:06:44,240 --> 01:06:48,720
It is literally like you've had X, I don't remember the exact formula, but X number of

1180
01:06:48,720 --> 01:06:54,240
sleep you have, X number of hours you have not slept, number of alcoholic beverages you've

1181
01:06:54,240 --> 01:06:57,640
had, like literally is the correlation.

1182
01:06:57,640 --> 01:07:02,920
It's been shown, proven, like this is not a Jake, good idea.

1183
01:07:02,920 --> 01:07:07,920
So that low hanging fruit there of like, if you think that sleep is not a factor, you're

1184
01:07:07,920 --> 01:07:12,000
just straight wrong, fact, objective.

1185
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:20,200
When you take a look at law enforcement and the job that they have taken on, it is not

1186
01:07:20,200 --> 01:07:21,920
easy.

1187
01:07:21,920 --> 01:07:25,920
I have worked with lots and lots of special operations units.

1188
01:07:25,920 --> 01:07:29,200
I've worked with special operations units that have been an officer of all shootings

1189
01:07:29,200 --> 01:07:35,120
that have shot, that have unfortunately had to shoot people more than others, right?

1190
01:07:35,120 --> 01:07:42,600
I've worked with special operations units that have been under very high profile scrutiny.

1191
01:07:42,600 --> 01:07:50,520
They've been, had a critical eye on them from the world, social media, the media, at the

1192
01:07:50,520 --> 01:07:53,920
local level and the federal level.

1193
01:07:53,920 --> 01:07:59,080
Here's Jake's two cents, and I'm not trying to be politically correct, this is truly how

1194
01:07:59,080 --> 01:08:00,080
I feel.

1195
01:08:00,080 --> 01:08:03,400
This is unfortunately, fortunately, depends on how you look at it, how I live my life.

1196
01:08:03,400 --> 01:08:07,480
I would say that I'm not a guy that lives on either one of the eight ends.

1197
01:08:07,480 --> 01:08:11,560
I'm the guy that's somewhere here in the middle, generally in my life.

1198
01:08:11,560 --> 01:08:15,640
I think that the, it's very easy to armchair quarterback.

1199
01:08:15,640 --> 01:08:20,840
I think that there has been a lot of, as you said, whether it be George Floyd or a lot

1200
01:08:20,840 --> 01:08:25,760
of these high profile cases, yeah, there are black and white, wrong and right.

1201
01:08:25,760 --> 01:08:28,200
I don't disagree with that.

1202
01:08:28,200 --> 01:08:32,880
But what I do think is there are a lot of pieces of information there that from the

1203
01:08:32,880 --> 01:08:38,320
outside viewer, if you have no context to their world, it's very easy to armchair quarterback

1204
01:08:38,320 --> 01:08:45,680
and not understand sleep deprivation.

1205
01:08:45,680 --> 01:08:46,960
They are humans too.

1206
01:08:46,960 --> 01:08:49,080
They have personal things going on in their house.

1207
01:08:49,080 --> 01:08:51,360
They haven't had sleep.

1208
01:08:51,360 --> 01:08:56,920
Hey, I'm just saying, you know, the whole like cut funding.

1209
01:08:56,920 --> 01:09:01,120
Okay, well, they already don't have enough training that they should have, whether it

1210
01:09:01,120 --> 01:09:07,120
be from a financial standpoint, bullets, resources, time, however you want to look at it, staffing.

1211
01:09:07,120 --> 01:09:09,240
Some of it's like who you got, who you got, right?

1212
01:09:09,240 --> 01:09:14,160
Yeah, I understand we want these higher standards on this kind of thing, but are you going to,

1213
01:09:14,160 --> 01:09:17,880
unless we're going to start cloning certain people, that's impossible.

1214
01:09:17,880 --> 01:09:20,240
The person standing in front of us is not that.

1215
01:09:20,240 --> 01:09:24,180
There's so many different variables there.

1216
01:09:24,180 --> 01:09:27,840
When I personally look at shooting and I personally go in and train officers, whether it be human

1217
01:09:27,840 --> 01:09:34,920
performance or the shooting side, I, my teaching style is, is I want to be along beside you.

1218
01:09:34,920 --> 01:09:37,280
I want to, I want to lift you up.

1219
01:09:37,280 --> 01:09:39,060
I don't go in and be like, you suck.

1220
01:09:39,060 --> 01:09:43,000
Even whenever they don't perform well on a specific test, I try to use as an education

1221
01:09:43,000 --> 01:09:47,280
point to hopefully lift them up because I think there's plenty enough people that can

1222
01:09:47,280 --> 01:09:50,360
easily pick on why they're not doing certain things.

1223
01:09:50,360 --> 01:09:56,640
But when you look at shooting and I've taught special operations at, I mean, all the levels,

1224
01:09:56,640 --> 01:09:58,740
here's what I try to tell people.

1225
01:09:58,740 --> 01:10:04,320
If you're a full time team, full time SWAT team, whether it be federal or local, you

1226
01:10:04,320 --> 01:10:06,680
run probably more operations.

1227
01:10:06,680 --> 01:10:08,320
So your op tempo is higher.

1228
01:10:08,320 --> 01:10:11,100
So you're go, go, go, go, go.

1229
01:10:11,100 --> 01:10:14,200
Because of those, you depend upon the structure of the team.

1230
01:10:14,200 --> 01:10:18,200
Full time teams generally have maybe one that's in training, one that's standby and one that's

1231
01:10:18,200 --> 01:10:19,200
operational.

1232
01:10:19,200 --> 01:10:23,280
Doesn't mean that you just get to twiddle your thumbs when you're out, we're not operational.

1233
01:10:23,280 --> 01:10:28,320
When you're on standby, if you're standby, you can't drive outside of a certain amount

1234
01:10:28,320 --> 01:10:29,320
of limit.

1235
01:10:29,320 --> 01:10:32,840
You may not be able to have certain amount of alcoholic beverages because all of a sudden

1236
01:10:32,840 --> 01:10:35,140
you may not be on standby anymore.

1237
01:10:35,140 --> 01:10:40,200
If you're on the training one, training is a very big word.

1238
01:10:40,200 --> 01:10:45,600
Training may be firearms, maybe jujitsu, maybe administrative, maybe less lethal.

1239
01:10:45,600 --> 01:10:48,300
There's so many different factors.

1240
01:10:48,300 --> 01:10:51,480
So your full time teams are busy is my point.

1241
01:10:51,480 --> 01:10:58,240
Your part time teams, the National Tactile Officer Association, the NTOA is the national

1242
01:10:58,240 --> 01:10:59,600
SWAT organization.

1243
01:10:59,600 --> 01:11:03,320
They have standards for what is a different tiered teams essentially.

1244
01:11:03,320 --> 01:11:12,760
If you're a part time team, roughly, you get eight hours, twice a month.

1245
01:11:12,760 --> 01:11:19,200
So one day every other week, that's your training you get.

1246
01:11:19,200 --> 01:11:24,520
Additionally, you have a full other job probably, detective, patrol officer, whatever it may

1247
01:11:24,520 --> 01:11:25,520
be.

1248
01:11:25,520 --> 01:11:28,200
I'm just going to use a very simple example.

1249
01:11:28,200 --> 01:11:31,520
I know people that were there, but I'm not going to go deep into it.

1250
01:11:31,520 --> 01:11:35,000
But Uvalde is an example.

1251
01:11:35,000 --> 01:11:40,040
You take part time teams, you take officers that have a lot of things in their life.

1252
01:11:40,040 --> 01:11:42,600
And I'm not, just to be clear, I'm not giving them an out.

1253
01:11:42,600 --> 01:11:45,800
They made decisions that they had chosen to do that job.

1254
01:11:45,800 --> 01:11:49,360
They made decisions not to go in and that was absolutely 100% wrong.

1255
01:11:49,360 --> 01:11:54,680
There's a lot of mistakes, but I'm just for context, right?

1256
01:11:54,680 --> 01:11:58,880
You take very SWAT teams, train eight hours every other week.

1257
01:11:58,880 --> 01:12:02,320
And then we say, Super Bowl happens.

1258
01:12:02,320 --> 01:12:06,860
This is the big event and you got to be on your A game and be at the top of your field

1259
01:12:06,860 --> 01:12:10,280
in that moment.

1260
01:12:10,280 --> 01:12:11,680
No matter what's going on in your life.

1261
01:12:11,680 --> 01:12:14,840
However, comma, look at the other side.

1262
01:12:14,840 --> 01:12:15,840
This is the example I give.

1263
01:12:15,840 --> 01:12:18,440
I don't care what your NFL team is.

1264
01:12:18,440 --> 01:12:19,440
I live here in Dallas.

1265
01:12:19,440 --> 01:12:20,440
I am not a Cowboys fan.

1266
01:12:20,440 --> 01:12:25,760
I just don't really watch NFL, but Dak Prescott is the quarterback there currently, I think.

1267
01:12:25,760 --> 01:12:26,760
Pretty sure.

1268
01:12:26,760 --> 01:12:27,760
Nine percent sure.

1269
01:12:27,760 --> 01:12:34,440
Hey, you're going to get eight hours to train every other week.

1270
01:12:34,440 --> 01:12:43,080
And then we're going to wake you up at a random time to play in the Super Bowl against whoever.

1271
01:12:43,080 --> 01:12:47,120
Probably going to be a little less hard on Dak if he does not perform well.

1272
01:12:47,120 --> 01:12:53,120
Our expectation is to be kind of like, listen, I'm not trying to get officers outs.

1273
01:12:53,120 --> 01:12:56,920
There are a significant number of officers, guys that work with me.

1274
01:12:56,920 --> 01:13:02,320
There are part time teams that have families, do competitions that train their absolute

1275
01:13:02,320 --> 01:13:07,040
butts off to be the highest level operators that I've seen.

1276
01:13:07,040 --> 01:13:12,880
So I'm not trying to get people outs, but at the same time, to your question, I think

1277
01:13:12,880 --> 01:13:16,200
there's a whole lot of variables that if you don't know those, I think everyone needs to

1278
01:13:16,200 --> 01:13:20,240
chill out a little bit and be maybe a little bit like take a back seat and be like, hey,

1279
01:13:20,240 --> 01:13:21,880
man, there's a lot there that I don't know.

1280
01:13:21,880 --> 01:13:23,520
I don't understand about their world.

1281
01:13:23,520 --> 01:13:29,480
I don't understand about human physiology, the stress, the impacts are there.

1282
01:13:29,480 --> 01:13:32,360
Again, there's other people should be holding them accountable.

1283
01:13:32,360 --> 01:13:33,360
I'm not disagreeing.

1284
01:13:33,360 --> 01:13:37,880
I'm just saying to your point, I think there's a lot of gray there that a lot of people don't

1285
01:13:37,880 --> 01:13:38,880
understand.

1286
01:13:38,880 --> 01:13:42,560
And sometimes that's hard because we see it happen in the news and yeah, it's frustrating.

1287
01:13:42,560 --> 01:13:43,560
It's angering.

1288
01:13:43,560 --> 01:13:44,560
It's sad.

1289
01:13:44,560 --> 01:13:49,200
We have a lot of those emotions, but also want to encourage people.

1290
01:13:49,200 --> 01:13:50,840
There are a lot of officers.

1291
01:13:50,840 --> 01:13:52,960
I've trained thousands.

1292
01:13:52,960 --> 01:13:58,120
There's a lot of officers and put in a whole hell of a lot of time to be leaders in their

1293
01:13:58,120 --> 01:14:02,600
community and be out protecting you and others to their whole heartedness.

1294
01:14:02,600 --> 01:14:06,840
So anyway, I know there's a very long answer, but I think that's a very complex question,

1295
01:14:06,840 --> 01:14:10,560
which I do appreciate you bringing it up because I think a lot of people just see it black

1296
01:14:10,560 --> 01:14:11,560
and white.

1297
01:14:11,560 --> 01:14:12,560
That guy's an idiot.

1298
01:14:12,560 --> 01:14:13,560
I can't believe you do that.

1299
01:14:13,560 --> 01:14:14,560
Right?

1300
01:14:14,560 --> 01:14:15,800
That's just not how I view it.

1301
01:14:15,800 --> 01:14:19,480
As I've trained more and more units, I just don't think it's that clear black and white

1302
01:14:19,480 --> 01:14:23,560
in terms of the amount of variables that are impacting their performance.

1303
01:14:23,560 --> 01:14:27,960
See, this is, I agree 100% what you've just said.

1304
01:14:27,960 --> 01:14:32,480
And this is the thing when you heard the defund, which was obviously the most ridiculous statement,

1305
01:14:32,480 --> 01:14:33,480
it's the opposite.

1306
01:14:33,480 --> 01:14:34,920
And the same with the fire service.

1307
01:14:34,920 --> 01:14:40,600
We've got a recruitment crisis because they're still working the same kind of work weeks

1308
01:14:40,600 --> 01:14:45,520
that they work when they simply just ran fires and they were in the house, playing cards

1309
01:14:45,520 --> 01:14:48,000
and petting the Dalmatian 80, 90 years ago.

1310
01:14:48,000 --> 01:14:49,800
But now that's not the fire service.

1311
01:14:49,800 --> 01:14:54,640
Now we do EMS and everything the police can't handle, it's the fire department, all of it.

1312
01:14:54,640 --> 01:15:03,280
But when I look at law enforcement with the firefighter's eyes, one to a car is insanity,

1313
01:15:03,280 --> 01:15:08,240
not training because of a budget, air quotes, but then you have an avalde.

1314
01:15:08,240 --> 01:15:13,600
How many millions and millions and millions of dollars is that going to cost that city?

1315
01:15:13,600 --> 01:15:14,600
You know what I mean?

1316
01:15:14,600 --> 01:15:20,520
One complaint or one cruiser that crashes into a minivan full of kids, whatever it is,

1317
01:15:20,520 --> 01:15:27,560
when we are under slept and under staffed, the possibility of a mistake being made is

1318
01:15:27,560 --> 01:15:28,560
exponential.

1319
01:15:28,560 --> 01:15:34,560
So understanding the proactive investing at the front, not only you really forging performance

1320
01:15:34,560 --> 01:15:38,080
in the people, you're also avoiding these freaking tragedies that is going to cost your

1321
01:15:38,080 --> 01:15:40,480
county or city millions of dollars.

1322
01:15:40,480 --> 01:15:41,480
Yep.

1323
01:15:41,480 --> 01:15:44,720
No, you're 100%.

1324
01:15:44,720 --> 01:15:46,240
I could not agree more.

1325
01:15:46,240 --> 01:15:48,280
There's the upfront pieces.

1326
01:15:48,280 --> 01:15:54,480
Denver, it's been a while since I've talked to any of them out there and or looked at

1327
01:15:54,480 --> 01:16:00,760
the studies, but Denver PD and the fire department years back, either definitely when I was in

1328
01:16:00,760 --> 01:16:07,200
grad school, but they brought in a PT and a strength coach, hired them, the city hired

1329
01:16:07,200 --> 01:16:08,400
them.

1330
01:16:08,400 --> 01:16:19,400
They saved millions of dollars with a capital M millions in injuries and healthcare costs.

1331
01:16:19,400 --> 01:16:23,160
I understand, like we're talking about like those are the, that's low hanging fruit.

1332
01:16:23,160 --> 01:16:24,960
How many agencies could do that?

1333
01:16:24,960 --> 01:16:25,960
It would be astronomical.

1334
01:16:25,960 --> 01:16:28,960
It would give more jobs into the medical field.

1335
01:16:28,960 --> 01:16:30,200
Like it could be huge.

1336
01:16:30,200 --> 01:16:35,760
Well, now we're talking about those same types of preventative things we could be doing,

1337
01:16:35,760 --> 01:16:39,000
but now, and those are people like rolling their ankles probably, right?

1338
01:16:39,000 --> 01:16:42,440
Well, now we're talking about things that are preventative of like firearms training,

1339
01:16:42,440 --> 01:16:45,360
again, breaching, whatever y'all call it in the fire service.

1340
01:16:45,360 --> 01:16:50,080
Like think about the problems we could solve with the upfront training if we invested that

1341
01:16:50,080 --> 01:16:51,920
time and money into it.

1342
01:16:51,920 --> 01:16:54,560
And listen, man, I'm frustrated about it.

1343
01:16:54,560 --> 01:16:58,700
And I think a lot of people that don't know, they should understand that they don't because

1344
01:16:58,700 --> 01:16:59,840
maybe they're not involved.

1345
01:16:59,840 --> 01:17:09,360
But I also, again, on the flip side, I'm working, my 2025 schedule is pretty chaotic, we'll

1346
01:17:09,360 --> 01:17:13,680
say in the amount of courses that we're teaching and being brought in by agencies across the

1347
01:17:13,680 --> 01:17:19,480
country that are seeing, hey, we need to, we need to get them training.

1348
01:17:19,480 --> 01:17:24,840
Like we need, it is better training than maybe what we were doing.

1349
01:17:24,840 --> 01:17:25,840
Right.

1350
01:17:25,840 --> 01:17:29,760
And I do think we've been very fortunate because we're kind of, we allow for a chief or administration

1351
01:17:29,760 --> 01:17:34,360
to double dip because they're like, ooh, these guys not only do human performance, but they

1352
01:17:34,360 --> 01:17:36,040
also do shooting.

1353
01:17:36,040 --> 01:17:40,200
And so we can kind of, they can double dip and it's advantageous for us, but it also

1354
01:17:40,200 --> 01:17:42,480
allows us to stay our lane.

1355
01:17:42,480 --> 01:17:43,520
Right.

1356
01:17:43,520 --> 01:17:46,680
And so listen, there's good things that are happening.

1357
01:17:46,680 --> 01:17:49,920
And I try to focus on that piece, but I'm not going to sit here and lie to you and be

1358
01:17:49,920 --> 01:17:53,680
like, yeah, it's all daisies, James, like everybody's just doing great things out.

1359
01:17:53,680 --> 01:17:55,840
Like, no, it's a progress.

1360
01:17:55,840 --> 01:17:57,840
I do think progress is being made.

1361
01:17:57,840 --> 01:18:00,240
And I think the right people need to keep on pushing.

1362
01:18:00,240 --> 01:18:03,240
Cause I think we're heading in the right direction.

1363
01:18:03,240 --> 01:18:04,240
At least I hope.

1364
01:18:04,240 --> 01:18:05,240
Yeah, I agree.

1365
01:18:05,240 --> 01:18:08,920
I mean, there's a shift, even the fire service from the rest and recovery side.

1366
01:18:08,920 --> 01:18:12,800
And this, the beginning of a revolution now, which is going to sweep across the country

1367
01:18:12,800 --> 01:18:17,480
whether they like it or not, you know, either you go along with it or you can't hire a single

1368
01:18:17,480 --> 01:18:20,440
person because no one wants to work for you because everyone around us figured it out

1369
01:18:20,440 --> 01:18:23,280
and created a better environment.

1370
01:18:23,280 --> 01:18:26,560
I want to go back to the performance side, you know, one more area before we do some

1371
01:18:26,560 --> 01:18:28,200
closing questions.

1372
01:18:28,200 --> 01:18:35,240
When I think of, you know, efficiency of movement, cardiovascular fitness, being used to being

1373
01:18:35,240 --> 01:18:37,800
discomforts of being in that pain cave.

1374
01:18:37,800 --> 01:18:39,920
Sometimes I think about a calm mind.

1375
01:18:39,920 --> 01:18:46,320
I think about strong breath control, which I would imagine again is imperative for accurate

1376
01:18:46,320 --> 01:18:48,480
shooting and good decision-making.

1377
01:18:48,480 --> 01:18:53,280
So talk to me about the breath and the clarity of mind side of this movement piece that you're

1378
01:18:53,280 --> 01:18:54,280
bringing in.

1379
01:18:54,280 --> 01:18:56,280
Yeah, that's a good question.

1380
01:18:56,280 --> 01:19:05,240
So, I don't tap it, let me say this, breathing is absolutely an important piece, but it's

1381
01:19:05,240 --> 01:19:11,200
not as specific as how we're applying it as, you know, in, out, in, out, squeeze type of

1382
01:19:11,200 --> 01:19:12,520
thing, it's not like that.

1383
01:19:12,520 --> 01:19:14,440
And so we don't cover that as much.

1384
01:19:14,440 --> 01:19:18,080
Honestly, more so we speak about it more on the human performance side, whether it be

1385
01:19:18,080 --> 01:19:26,200
box breathing or different ways for a, I don't want to say, oh my gosh, sorry, like paracetamol,

1386
01:19:26,200 --> 01:19:31,760
like a calming, but just more of an awareness, a mindfulness, that's what I was looking for.

1387
01:19:31,760 --> 01:19:34,760
More of a mindfulness piece, exercise, breathing.

1388
01:19:34,760 --> 01:19:37,760
What was the other thing you just said?

1389
01:19:37,760 --> 01:19:38,760
I'm so sorry.

1390
01:19:38,760 --> 01:19:39,760
That's okay.

1391
01:19:39,760 --> 01:19:43,760
Well, what I was alluding to was when you're static, you know, you're just thinking about,

1392
01:19:43,760 --> 01:19:49,200
you know, in, exhale, squeeze, but when you're getting people to move, that's, now they might

1393
01:19:49,200 --> 01:19:53,720
already have an elevated heart rate and you know, there might be an elevated stress level

1394
01:19:53,720 --> 01:19:56,640
because you're having to move and look for a target now.

1395
01:19:56,640 --> 01:20:00,520
So I would imagine there's a great opportunity to start training that realistically.

1396
01:20:00,520 --> 01:20:01,520
Right, right.

1397
01:20:01,520 --> 01:20:02,520
Yeah.

1398
01:20:02,520 --> 01:20:06,840
So some of the research on that, and I can't remember the shooters where they're on skis,

1399
01:20:06,840 --> 01:20:10,760
nori skis, and then they shoot rifles that are precision rifle.

1400
01:20:10,760 --> 01:20:13,760
I can't, biathlon, I think it's what it's called.

1401
01:20:13,760 --> 01:20:14,760
Yeah.

1402
01:20:14,760 --> 01:20:15,760
Yeah.

1403
01:20:15,760 --> 01:20:16,760
Biathlon.

1404
01:20:16,760 --> 01:20:20,720
In the Olympics, they have some very good research on that of higher, VO2 max, higher

1405
01:20:20,720 --> 01:20:22,760
success and accuracy.

1406
01:20:22,760 --> 01:20:28,800
To be honest with you, we don't do that as much for the reason of the shootings that

1407
01:20:28,800 --> 01:20:32,760
these officers are getting in when they're moving CQB.

1408
01:20:32,760 --> 01:20:35,960
I don't want to say it's something you can't control, but it's something that, well, you

1409
01:20:35,960 --> 01:20:41,640
can't control from a physiological perspective, physiological response, but training it on

1410
01:20:41,640 --> 01:20:45,320
the outside, the things that we're working on more is mechanics.

1411
01:20:45,320 --> 01:20:48,280
So how are you moving efficiently?

1412
01:20:48,280 --> 01:20:53,320
And those mechanics are going to allow you to have a more stable shooting platform.

1413
01:20:53,320 --> 01:20:58,780
Honestly, the thing we train probably the most is visually, visually and body mechanics.

1414
01:20:58,780 --> 01:21:04,800
So helping guys and girls understand when they're moving, what is the impact that you're

1415
01:21:04,800 --> 01:21:09,560
putting into that firearm and therefore what is going to happen when you pull that trigger.

1416
01:21:09,560 --> 01:21:10,560
Right.

1417
01:21:10,560 --> 01:21:13,640
Are you familiar with overspeed training?

1418
01:21:13,640 --> 01:21:14,960
I'm not.

1419
01:21:14,960 --> 01:21:15,960
Okay.

1420
01:21:15,960 --> 01:21:19,640
So overspeed training in the human performance world, sometimes strength coaches will use

1421
01:21:19,640 --> 01:21:20,640
it.

1422
01:21:20,640 --> 01:21:26,520
So we're going to sprint 15 yards, let's just say, and we use a radar gun and we say,

1423
01:21:26,520 --> 01:21:27,520
ah, good job.

1424
01:21:27,520 --> 01:21:29,000
James ran 10 miles an hour.

1425
01:21:29,000 --> 01:21:30,000
Okay.

1426
01:21:30,000 --> 01:21:34,880
And then we turn around and we put the bungee cord on you and we slingshot you across and

1427
01:21:34,880 --> 01:21:36,320
you run 12 miles an hour.

1428
01:21:36,320 --> 01:21:37,320
Right.

1429
01:21:37,320 --> 01:21:38,320
So it's overspeed training.

1430
01:21:38,320 --> 01:21:42,040
We're assisting you in that same movement.

1431
01:21:42,040 --> 01:21:46,880
Overspeed training says we hope that there's a neurological adaptation that, and this is

1432
01:21:46,880 --> 01:21:50,600
not how it works, but just for simplicity sake, your body, the neuromuscular connection

1433
01:21:50,600 --> 01:21:55,520
understands in those motor patterns, ooh, James just moved at 12 miles an hour, 12 miles

1434
01:21:55,520 --> 01:21:56,520
per hour.

1435
01:21:56,520 --> 01:21:57,520
That's what it feels like.

1436
01:21:57,520 --> 01:22:02,140
If there's a neurological adaptation, we unhook you, you sprint and you run at 11 miles an

1437
01:22:02,140 --> 01:22:06,040
hour because we're over emphasizing the stimulus on those muscles.

1438
01:22:06,040 --> 01:22:08,320
So we're saying like, ooh, he can go at a faster pace.

1439
01:22:08,320 --> 01:22:12,800
And we kind of find what that next gear is, if you will, right?

1440
01:22:12,800 --> 01:22:15,720
Again for everybody listening, I understand that is not how it works.

1441
01:22:15,720 --> 01:22:21,120
I'm just giving a rough example because then from there, you've got to go train, continue

1442
01:22:21,120 --> 01:22:24,920
to train that one, but two, you still got to do all the other individual pieces, speed,

1443
01:22:24,920 --> 01:22:25,920
power, strength, whatever.

1444
01:22:25,920 --> 01:22:31,960
What we found on the shooting side though is if you're standing there as static and

1445
01:22:31,960 --> 01:22:35,800
you're shooting slow, you never move.

1446
01:22:35,800 --> 01:22:41,680
Well, visually what your body, the sensory information you're taking in, it's shooting

1447
01:22:41,680 --> 01:22:45,160
from a stable platform, very, very slow, right?

1448
01:22:45,160 --> 01:22:47,360
Because that's how we're shooting in the range.

1449
01:22:47,360 --> 01:22:52,800
You'll look at an officer getting their shooting, they're moving and they're shooting fast.

1450
01:22:52,800 --> 01:22:58,600
Visually the brain is like, holy crap, what is happening?

1451
01:22:58,600 --> 01:23:02,280
The body at that point has not felt movement.

1452
01:23:02,280 --> 01:23:04,800
It has not felt shooting fast.

1453
01:23:04,800 --> 01:23:07,600
And so it's just screaming like, oh no.

1454
01:23:07,600 --> 01:23:09,840
It's literally a Jesus take the wheel moment.

1455
01:23:09,840 --> 01:23:12,360
We're hoping for the best here, right?

1456
01:23:12,360 --> 01:23:19,320
And so when we built this program, whenever I tried to look at it, I said, okay, in CQB,

1457
01:23:19,320 --> 01:23:23,480
in my opinion, for everybody, I apologize because I've been saying this all the time,

1458
01:23:23,480 --> 01:23:29,400
CQB, close quarters combat, so how you would clear structure as a tactical unit.

1459
01:23:29,400 --> 01:23:32,760
I tried to just break it down and look at it and said, okay, all right, let me think

1460
01:23:32,760 --> 01:23:33,760
here.

1461
01:23:33,760 --> 01:23:36,480
There's decision making, there's movement and there's shooting.

1462
01:23:36,480 --> 01:23:41,800
If I'm going to isolate three variables, okay, well, decision making to me, you need experience

1463
01:23:41,800 --> 01:23:45,080
and you need somebody experience in teaching that.

1464
01:23:45,080 --> 01:23:46,080
That's on me.

1465
01:23:46,080 --> 01:23:47,880
I'm pretty good at shooting.

1466
01:23:47,880 --> 01:23:50,120
I'm really good at movement.

1467
01:23:50,120 --> 01:23:53,880
So I tried to hyper focus on those two variables.

1468
01:23:53,880 --> 01:23:58,000
When I started looking at how to do that, we took in that class, we take people and

1469
01:23:58,000 --> 01:24:01,080
we move them in the gym, just like an athlete would.

1470
01:24:01,080 --> 01:24:06,280
We try to help them build those motor patterns, the motor patterns they need in the house.

1471
01:24:06,280 --> 01:24:08,440
So forward, lateral, diagonal, all these different movements.

1472
01:24:08,440 --> 01:24:12,920
You watch an officer, they get some shooting, bang, bang, bang, they're looking for cover

1473
01:24:12,920 --> 01:24:15,480
and they run in a backwards diagonal, right?

1474
01:24:15,480 --> 01:24:18,160
Sweet, I can do that in the gym.

1475
01:24:18,160 --> 01:24:21,240
I can teach them how to move in that direction.

1476
01:24:21,240 --> 01:24:25,040
Just like Tom Brady or whatever professional athlete you like.

1477
01:24:25,040 --> 01:24:26,940
Strength coach says, hey, here's the movements.

1478
01:24:26,940 --> 01:24:28,680
How do I build that in the gym?

1479
01:24:28,680 --> 01:24:30,120
How do I train them in the gym?

1480
01:24:30,120 --> 01:24:33,200
Build those motor patterns and those mechanics.

1481
01:24:33,200 --> 01:24:36,480
Then we do the exact same thing with firearm.

1482
01:24:36,480 --> 01:24:38,840
I check off, essentially I built a baseline test.

1483
01:24:38,840 --> 01:24:42,000
It says, yup, they have the accuracy, they can do it.

1484
01:24:42,000 --> 01:24:45,040
From there, everything is over speed training.

1485
01:24:45,040 --> 01:24:48,060
They've proven they have the fundamentals.

1486
01:24:48,060 --> 01:24:52,920
So we shoot faster so the brain can process visually what are they seeing and then we

1487
01:24:52,920 --> 01:24:57,800
add in the movement because that's another stressor in intensity modifiers, what I call

1488
01:24:57,800 --> 01:24:58,800
them.

1489
01:24:58,800 --> 01:25:03,360
So we add in those pieces, but we teach them how to move so that once they go move in a

1490
01:25:03,360 --> 01:25:06,360
house, the movement is secondary.

1491
01:25:06,360 --> 01:25:09,400
The movement, the brain's like, hey bro, I got it.

1492
01:25:09,400 --> 01:25:10,400
I've trained this.

1493
01:25:10,400 --> 01:25:12,920
And everybody's like, yeah, I've been doing that for 30 years.

1494
01:25:12,920 --> 01:25:17,180
Yes, you have, but if it's wrong movement, your body's still chirping at you.

1495
01:25:17,180 --> 01:25:19,200
It's like, I don't like this position.

1496
01:25:19,200 --> 01:25:20,200
Change your mechanics.

1497
01:25:20,200 --> 01:25:21,200
Change your mechanics.

1498
01:25:21,200 --> 01:25:22,640
You're like, dude, that's what you got.

1499
01:25:22,640 --> 01:25:23,640
Figure it out.

1500
01:25:23,640 --> 01:25:25,240
Your brain's having that conversation.

1501
01:25:25,240 --> 01:25:30,360
It may feel like it's secondary, but it's not and if you think it, what we found though,

1502
01:25:30,360 --> 01:25:35,800
let's get impact or shooting because you're taking away a piece of that Venn diagram.

1503
01:25:35,800 --> 01:25:40,720
And so that's really what we focus on when we come in and from the strength and conditioning

1504
01:25:40,720 --> 01:25:43,160
side is how do we clean up those mechanics?

1505
01:25:43,160 --> 01:25:45,440
How do we help them move better?

1506
01:25:45,440 --> 01:25:49,500
Well then as we progress, we also added in the shooting piece so we can cover hopefully

1507
01:25:49,500 --> 01:25:53,640
two of those three circles of decision making, movement and shooting.

1508
01:25:53,640 --> 01:25:57,360
Well, we can knock out movement and shooting and really help them run those on the background,

1509
01:25:57,360 --> 01:25:59,520
but we use over speed training.

1510
01:25:59,520 --> 01:26:03,580
So we're not tapping into so much the breathing or the heart rate.

1511
01:26:03,580 --> 01:26:08,300
It's really about those mechanics and the vision to allow them to be in more control.

1512
01:26:08,300 --> 01:26:09,440
What about strength?

1513
01:26:09,440 --> 01:26:10,920
How much does that factor in?

1514
01:26:10,920 --> 01:26:13,680
Obviously the larger the weapon, the heavier it is.

1515
01:26:13,680 --> 01:26:18,080
Where is that kind of sweet spot between needing to be strong enough and obviously having excessive

1516
01:26:18,080 --> 01:26:19,080
strength?

1517
01:26:19,080 --> 01:26:21,760
Oh man, that's a great question.

1518
01:26:21,760 --> 01:26:25,520
I don't want to say not at all because that obviously is not correct, but I would say

1519
01:26:25,520 --> 01:26:27,240
it's less.

1520
01:26:27,240 --> 01:26:36,680
However comma, if you have a heavy kit and a heavy firearm, yeah, you're going to believe

1521
01:26:36,680 --> 01:26:38,720
that energy is going to bleed off quicker, right?

1522
01:26:38,720 --> 01:26:41,240
If you don't have the strength to sustain it.

1523
01:26:41,240 --> 01:26:47,840
But generally, especially from the law enforcement side, a couple of different variable or situations

1524
01:26:47,840 --> 01:26:48,840
maybe I should say.

1525
01:26:48,840 --> 01:26:52,560
Yeah, if you're on a surrounded call out and you're standing out there for hours, most

1526
01:26:52,560 --> 01:26:54,000
of those guys aren't standing at the ready.

1527
01:26:54,000 --> 01:26:57,600
They're normally placing their firearm on something and assisting.

1528
01:26:57,600 --> 01:27:00,480
Excuse me.

1529
01:27:00,480 --> 01:27:03,920
If you're clearing a structure, generally it's pretty quick, right?

1530
01:27:03,920 --> 01:27:08,160
Again, I understand for some listener that's going to be like, no, well I did this.

1531
01:27:08,160 --> 01:27:09,440
Like I got it.

1532
01:27:09,440 --> 01:27:12,100
There's outside variables or there's outliers.

1533
01:27:12,100 --> 01:27:14,720
But for the most, they're generally quick performance.

1534
01:27:14,720 --> 01:27:21,880
Also, in my experience, I can generally go work with a team and I can real quick identify

1535
01:27:21,880 --> 01:27:26,880
the experienced person because the experienced person, instead of having 15 mags across their

1536
01:27:26,880 --> 01:27:33,200
chest, they have two because they know in the 20 years they've been on that team, in

1537
01:27:33,200 --> 01:27:37,840
the however many shootings, they've never needed more than 60 rounds or whatever it

1538
01:27:37,840 --> 01:27:38,840
may be.

1539
01:27:38,840 --> 01:27:39,840
Right?

1540
01:27:39,840 --> 01:27:44,320
And so there is a strength piece, just like all the performance metrics, but I would say

1541
01:27:44,320 --> 01:27:47,480
there's a lot of experience there too, in terms of the job applicability, which I think

1542
01:27:47,480 --> 01:27:52,560
again, from the human performance side, if you don't know that you're missing a piece.

1543
01:27:52,560 --> 01:27:53,560
Right?

1544
01:27:53,560 --> 01:27:57,120
So from the strength side, yeah, it's a factor, but I think I would say it's something that's

1545
01:27:57,120 --> 01:27:59,000
focused on maybe a little more than it should be.

1546
01:27:59,000 --> 01:28:00,000
How about that?

1547
01:28:00,000 --> 01:28:04,920
I think that's something I've realized as you become an older tactical athlete, it's

1548
01:28:04,920 --> 01:28:08,080
that efficiency, that kind of young bull, old bull mentality.

1549
01:28:08,080 --> 01:28:10,040
Oh man, perfect word.

1550
01:28:10,040 --> 01:28:11,040
Perfect word efficiency.

1551
01:28:11,040 --> 01:28:12,040
Yeah.

1552
01:28:12,040 --> 01:28:13,040
I completely agree.

1553
01:28:13,040 --> 01:28:18,760
Well, before we wrap up and go to some closing questions, are there any other areas of what

1554
01:28:18,760 --> 01:28:21,760
you're bringing to the law enforcement profession that we haven't covered?

1555
01:28:21,760 --> 01:28:24,640
Do you want to make sure you slide in there?

1556
01:28:24,640 --> 01:28:26,480
No, man.

1557
01:28:26,480 --> 01:28:32,120
I think that the human performance side, we still program for a lot of teams.

1558
01:28:32,120 --> 01:28:36,560
We do a lot of consulting on whether it be testing and stuff like that, but also instructor

1559
01:28:36,560 --> 01:28:38,040
development.

1560
01:28:38,040 --> 01:28:44,880
Although I think that we do a really good job on it, but I think that can you bring

1561
01:28:44,880 --> 01:28:50,600
in an expert to be more efficient or can you limp along and go get some certification,

1562
01:28:50,600 --> 01:28:57,320
but really it's a weekend long course versus the person that has six years of graduate

1563
01:28:57,320 --> 01:29:01,100
and undergraduate under their belt kind of thing.

1564
01:29:01,100 --> 01:29:05,600
So I think that's an efficiency piece, but I understand coming back to the system of

1565
01:29:05,600 --> 01:29:06,600
funding.

1566
01:29:06,600 --> 01:29:12,840
Obviously I would say it's the main one, but that to be said, I think the human performance

1567
01:29:12,840 --> 01:29:15,240
piece, I think maybe I've underplayed it a little bit.

1568
01:29:15,240 --> 01:29:17,200
We did a lot of testing.

1569
01:29:17,200 --> 01:29:21,640
We program for a lot of federal and local agencies at the training academies and at

1570
01:29:21,640 --> 01:29:22,640
the PD.

1571
01:29:22,640 --> 01:29:28,160
We build our strength and conditioning programs and I think I'd say I'm a little biased, but

1572
01:29:28,160 --> 01:29:30,200
I think we're pretty good at it.

1573
01:29:30,200 --> 01:29:35,440
I think we very much understand the tactical community and what is needed and we're still

1574
01:29:35,440 --> 01:29:38,880
learning, but I'm just saying I think we have a lot of really good experience and our coaches

1575
01:29:38,880 --> 01:29:42,080
either have a master's or a doctorate.

1576
01:29:42,080 --> 01:29:46,560
I do not think education is end all be all, but I think it's something I do believe is

1577
01:29:46,560 --> 01:29:47,560
important.

1578
01:29:47,560 --> 01:29:50,720
And then obviously the shooting side, we do a lot of teaching shooting and right now I

1579
01:29:50,720 --> 01:29:56,040
would say that's our, it's been our big foot in the door to a lot of agencies because again,

1580
01:29:56,040 --> 01:29:59,680
kind of as I said earlier, chiefs and our administration is like, Hey, I can double

1581
01:29:59,680 --> 01:30:03,280
dip with these guys, but I also see it on the other side where sometimes the people

1582
01:30:03,280 --> 01:30:07,560
that push back on the human performance, they're like, Oh yeah, I'll go to a shooting movement

1583
01:30:07,560 --> 01:30:08,560
class.

1584
01:30:08,560 --> 01:30:13,120
Well, then they get there and they're like, Oh, I see how human performance is impactful

1585
01:30:13,120 --> 01:30:14,120
to my shooting.

1586
01:30:14,120 --> 01:30:15,120
Right.

1587
01:30:15,120 --> 01:30:19,800
And I think that's a bridge we've gapped pretty well.

1588
01:30:19,800 --> 01:30:23,400
And so yeah, and then everybody in between, honestly, if it deals with one of those two,

1589
01:30:23,400 --> 01:30:24,400
we've been fortunate.

1590
01:30:24,400 --> 01:30:28,880
So I would say those are our main two things I want to push out.

1591
01:30:28,880 --> 01:30:33,400
And so yeah, I appreciate the time and the opportunity on it for sure.

1592
01:30:33,400 --> 01:30:34,400
Beautiful.

1593
01:30:34,400 --> 01:30:38,080
Well, the first of the closing questions, is there a book or are there books that you

1594
01:30:38,080 --> 01:30:39,080
love to recommend?

1595
01:30:39,080 --> 01:30:43,000
It can be related to our discussion today or completely unrelated.

1596
01:30:43,000 --> 01:30:45,880
Ooh, that's a really good one.

1597
01:30:45,880 --> 01:30:48,080
Grit by Angela Duckworth.

1598
01:30:48,080 --> 01:30:56,040
I would not say is related specifically, but it's one that I read that I pull a lot of

1599
01:30:56,040 --> 01:30:59,880
my personal life from, but also I've seen it a lot in my professional life with just

1600
01:30:59,880 --> 01:31:03,040
to where I am at.

1601
01:31:03,040 --> 01:31:08,160
There's a lot of pieces there, but one of the things that I will say that I think I

1602
01:31:08,160 --> 01:31:15,240
took a lot from is the person that's, she talks a lot about being talented and maybe

1603
01:31:15,240 --> 01:31:22,240
not having to have to fight through literally grit to get to that end goal.

1604
01:31:22,240 --> 01:31:26,520
I think I see a lot of those high performers sometimes, and I think that they forget that

1605
01:31:26,520 --> 01:31:27,520
piece.

1606
01:31:27,520 --> 01:31:28,520
That's always a push.

1607
01:31:28,520 --> 01:31:30,520
It's always a grind, no matter where you're at.

1608
01:31:30,520 --> 01:31:32,880
But grit by Angela Duckworth is a really good one.

1609
01:31:32,880 --> 01:31:36,000
Gosh darn it.

1610
01:31:36,000 --> 01:31:40,360
I cannot think of the name of the book, but it's a business book and it talks specifically

1611
01:31:40,360 --> 01:31:44,680
the big takeaway that it's got a lot of really great points in there, but do less and obsess.

1612
01:31:44,680 --> 01:31:46,760
Oh my gosh, that's going to drive me nuts.

1613
01:31:46,760 --> 01:31:51,560
I can't think of the name of the book, but do less and obsess.

1614
01:31:51,560 --> 01:31:52,560
And here's what that means.

1615
01:31:52,560 --> 01:31:58,000
I see a lot of people, especially in the law enforcement, firefighter, all of it.

1616
01:31:58,000 --> 01:32:02,040
You have a lot of things you have to be good at, right?

1617
01:32:02,040 --> 01:32:03,680
Specifically SWAT, you have to be less lethal.

1618
01:32:03,680 --> 01:32:04,680
You have to be lethal.

1619
01:32:04,680 --> 01:32:10,160
You have to be sniper, assaulter, breacher, all these different things.

1620
01:32:10,160 --> 01:32:14,440
Sometimes you need to do less of those things and really focus and hone in on what is that

1621
01:32:14,440 --> 01:32:18,040
skill I need to be good at right now.

1622
01:32:18,040 --> 01:32:19,160
Then move on to the next one.

1623
01:32:19,160 --> 01:32:21,640
What you've maybe not mastered it, but you've got it to where you need it.

1624
01:32:21,640 --> 01:32:26,000
It's where I see so many people get wrapped up in so many different things.

1625
01:32:26,000 --> 01:32:30,040
In the book, just to clarify, in the book what he talks on specifically is companies

1626
01:32:30,040 --> 01:32:32,320
that try to do 50 different things.

1627
01:32:32,320 --> 01:32:35,600
He's like, nope, do less and obsess at this one.

1628
01:32:35,600 --> 01:32:38,760
Once you're really, really good at it, bring in another facet of the business and maybe

1629
01:32:38,760 --> 01:32:39,840
it's Italian.

1630
01:32:39,840 --> 01:32:41,440
But I use it whenever I teach.

1631
01:32:41,440 --> 01:32:45,040
That I think is really important of making sure we're honing in on, am I good here before

1632
01:32:45,040 --> 01:32:46,400
I move on.

1633
01:32:46,400 --> 01:32:54,560
Beautiful, what about films and documentaries?

1634
01:32:54,560 --> 01:32:57,680
That are impactful or what are you like?

1635
01:32:57,680 --> 01:32:59,560
Oh, that I like.

1636
01:32:59,560 --> 01:33:03,840
Oh, so me and the kids are going through Lord of the Rings at the moment.

1637
01:33:03,840 --> 01:33:04,920
The kids love Lord of the Rings.

1638
01:33:04,920 --> 01:33:09,840
I am a huge office fan and if someone's not, I can't trust them.

1639
01:33:09,840 --> 01:33:11,600
No, I'm just kidding.

1640
01:33:11,600 --> 01:33:16,200
But no, I don't have anything that's been super impactful in my life, but I always run

1641
01:33:16,200 --> 01:33:20,400
in the office in the background if I'm doing work or jamming on programs or something like

1642
01:33:20,400 --> 01:33:21,400
that.

1643
01:33:21,400 --> 01:33:24,920
But no, outside of that, me and the kids are going through Lord of the Rings and the wife

1644
01:33:24,920 --> 01:33:27,080
are going through Lord of the Rings at the moment.

1645
01:33:27,080 --> 01:33:30,040
Have you seen the British office?

1646
01:33:30,040 --> 01:33:33,360
I started, I couldn't fully just commit to it though.

1647
01:33:33,360 --> 01:33:34,600
I never made it all the way through.

1648
01:33:34,600 --> 01:33:35,880
Are you a fan of it?

1649
01:33:35,880 --> 01:33:37,040
Well, it's a different humor.

1650
01:33:37,040 --> 01:33:42,920
I like both of them, but yeah, Ricky Gervais, he's special that one.

1651
01:33:42,920 --> 01:33:46,360
I prefer the British one, but I thought the American one was great too.

1652
01:33:46,360 --> 01:33:48,120
All right, all right.

1653
01:33:48,120 --> 01:33:49,120
Nice.

1654
01:33:49,120 --> 01:33:50,120
All right.

1655
01:33:50,120 --> 01:33:52,400
Well, the next question, is there a person you'd recommend to come on this podcast as

1656
01:33:52,400 --> 01:33:56,840
a guest to speak to the first responders, military and associated professions of the

1657
01:33:56,840 --> 01:33:59,840
world?

1658
01:33:59,840 --> 01:34:02,840
I'm thinking of some of the other shooting instructors that I know that I think have

1659
01:34:02,840 --> 01:34:07,480
been super impactful in the law enforcement, specifically community.

1660
01:34:07,480 --> 01:34:12,120
And that's a long list of guys, but I think that there's a lot of shooting instructors.

1661
01:34:12,120 --> 01:34:17,600
So there's some guys I've seen on the podcast that I think have really cool resumes, but

1662
01:34:17,600 --> 01:34:23,960
maybe don't do as much on the shooting side that some others do currently.

1663
01:34:23,960 --> 01:34:27,160
But there's a group of guys that I feel like are really leading the charge right now on

1664
01:34:27,160 --> 01:34:31,880
making a difference in the shooting side, which is obviously a piece that I think the

1665
01:34:31,880 --> 01:34:36,000
world is very hyper aware of any time a gun goes bang from a police officer or people

1666
01:34:36,000 --> 01:34:37,000
finding out.

1667
01:34:37,000 --> 01:34:40,120
I think that'd be something really cool to have on the podcast of some of the other guys

1668
01:34:40,120 --> 01:34:43,360
that are teaching shooting as well.

1669
01:34:43,360 --> 01:34:50,560
There's a long list of those Mark Smith, Joe Farewell, Ben Steger, Matt Pranka.

1670
01:34:50,560 --> 01:34:52,400
There's a lot of people there.

1671
01:34:52,400 --> 01:34:55,240
So yeah, I don't have a specific one for you, but I think that'd be something kind of cool

1672
01:34:55,240 --> 01:34:56,800
that you could bring on.

1673
01:34:56,800 --> 01:34:57,800
Brilliant.

1674
01:34:57,800 --> 01:34:58,800
All right.

1675
01:34:58,800 --> 01:35:04,280
Well, then the last question before we make sure where people can find you and an extremist,

1676
01:35:04,280 --> 01:35:07,720
what do you do to decompress?

1677
01:35:07,720 --> 01:35:09,960
That's a really good question.

1678
01:35:09,960 --> 01:35:14,960
So I'm pretty big in box breathing, especially when I'm laying at night trying to go to sleep

1679
01:35:14,960 --> 01:35:17,160
and I have a million things in my brain.

1680
01:35:17,160 --> 01:35:22,940
But the other things I do to decompress, honestly, man, is just I really try to hyper focus on

1681
01:35:22,940 --> 01:35:25,240
time with my family.

1682
01:35:25,240 --> 01:35:28,360
My wife also travels for work.

1683
01:35:28,360 --> 01:35:31,880
She's a director for a device company.

1684
01:35:31,880 --> 01:35:39,920
And I feel like one thing is we've grown through both of our careers is quality time over quality

1685
01:35:39,920 --> 01:35:41,200
quantity.

1686
01:35:41,200 --> 01:35:45,400
I see a lot of people that have a lot more quantity together as a family, but I think

1687
01:35:45,400 --> 01:35:50,200
we've really learned to make sure that that quality is there.

1688
01:35:50,200 --> 01:35:53,000
There is gosh, man, holy smokes.

1689
01:35:53,000 --> 01:35:57,360
I can feel it creeping up my chest as I even try to say it.

1690
01:35:57,360 --> 01:36:02,720
I love spending time with my kids and my family, probably more than anything else.

1691
01:36:02,720 --> 01:36:06,840
Seeing the next generation and trying to be an influence as much as I can out in the community,

1692
01:36:06,840 --> 01:36:12,640
and knowing that I'm trying to be a good dad and a good husband first.

1693
01:36:12,640 --> 01:36:16,720
I love my family more than anything, and I'm super, super blessed to have them in my life.

1694
01:36:16,720 --> 01:36:22,440
So I think decompressing is honestly, man, five o'clock, my phone goes on to do not

1695
01:36:22,440 --> 01:36:23,920
disturb.

1696
01:36:23,920 --> 01:36:27,400
Sometimes I will check it, but man, decompressing, there's nothing better than just being with

1697
01:36:27,400 --> 01:36:32,480
my kids and whether it be going to the park or getting a good walk in or stuff like that

1698
01:36:32,480 --> 01:36:34,400
is what I really enjoy doing.

1699
01:36:34,400 --> 01:36:35,400
Beautiful.

1700
01:36:35,400 --> 01:36:36,400
Beautiful.

1701
01:36:36,400 --> 01:36:37,400
All right.

1702
01:36:37,400 --> 01:36:40,960
Well then for people listening, where can they find In Extremis Performance and then

1703
01:36:40,960 --> 01:36:43,560
any other places to reach out to you?

1704
01:36:43,560 --> 01:36:44,560
Yeah.

1705
01:36:44,560 --> 01:36:46,920
So multiple ways.

1706
01:36:46,920 --> 01:36:49,280
We have our website, InExtremisPerformance.com.

1707
01:36:49,280 --> 01:36:56,040
I'm assuming you can maybe put that in the link somewhere when they go hear it.

1708
01:36:56,040 --> 01:37:00,080
So we've got a lot of the website, so you can go in and you can see all of the programs.

1709
01:37:00,080 --> 01:37:02,660
We have programs you can go on and get personally.

1710
01:37:02,660 --> 01:37:06,680
You can see our contact information for how to schedule a course, whether it be a shooting

1711
01:37:06,680 --> 01:37:08,760
course or a human performance course.

1712
01:37:08,760 --> 01:37:13,200
It also just has a contact page, so if you're wanting something specific for your department

1713
01:37:13,200 --> 01:37:16,440
or just individually.

1714
01:37:16,440 --> 01:37:21,440
Our Instagram is inextperformance.

1715
01:37:21,440 --> 01:37:26,840
So InExtremis shortened to inextperformance is our handle.

1716
01:37:26,840 --> 01:37:33,200
Man, so that's been a really interesting journey, Instagram.

1717
01:37:33,200 --> 01:37:39,280
I hate Instagram with a burning passion, but it's a really good place to mass put out information.

1718
01:37:39,280 --> 01:37:43,160
And I think we put out a lot of, I say free.

1719
01:37:43,160 --> 01:37:48,200
I hate using that word, but we put out a lot of educational information.

1720
01:37:48,200 --> 01:37:52,360
It's not like, ooh, we got to hook them so they come paid to come to our class or any

1721
01:37:52,360 --> 01:37:53,360
kind of thing.

1722
01:37:53,360 --> 01:37:58,880
But I think we try to put out a lot of really good information that you can learn from.

1723
01:37:58,880 --> 01:38:06,840
We don't get into the good, bad, being mad at people, hating people or anything like

1724
01:38:06,840 --> 01:38:07,840
that.

1725
01:38:07,840 --> 01:38:10,960
We just try to be good humans that hopefully are putting out good information so that if

1726
01:38:10,960 --> 01:38:17,040
you're someone that carries a gun for a living, whether it be cop, military, or just a person

1727
01:38:17,040 --> 01:38:21,240
that is responsible with their firearm, that hopefully you can learn.

1728
01:38:21,240 --> 01:38:25,760
So there's that through our website, you can find our contact information, but mine is

1729
01:38:25,760 --> 01:38:27,760
Jake at inextremistperformance.com.

1730
01:38:27,760 --> 01:38:32,840
And yeah, those are, I would say the main ways to hear about us.

1731
01:38:32,840 --> 01:38:37,240
I know you brought, I think you asked, actually you asked before we went live, but Scott Howell

1732
01:38:37,240 --> 01:38:39,000
has Ironside podcast.

1733
01:38:39,000 --> 01:38:41,960
So we put out a lot of podcasts.

1734
01:38:41,960 --> 01:38:43,200
Scott's part of the company.

1735
01:38:43,200 --> 01:38:47,460
So he puts out a lot of podcast episodes as well, where we really dive into the human

1736
01:38:47,460 --> 01:38:49,360
performance and application.

1737
01:38:49,360 --> 01:38:51,400
So that's been kind of cool.

1738
01:38:51,400 --> 01:38:55,760
But yeah, those are the main places to find out information on us.

1739
01:38:55,760 --> 01:38:56,760
Brilliant.

1740
01:38:56,760 --> 01:38:58,760
Well, it's been such an interesting conversation.

1741
01:38:58,760 --> 01:39:03,640
I've been talking about, especially the kind of the high performance physicality behind

1742
01:39:03,640 --> 01:39:07,080
the shootings is quite a unique conversation.

1743
01:39:07,080 --> 01:39:08,340
I haven't really had much before.

1744
01:39:08,340 --> 01:39:12,560
So I want to thank you so much for being so generous with your time and coming on the

1745
01:39:12,560 --> 01:39:14,160
Behind the Shield podcast today.

1746
01:39:14,160 --> 01:39:15,160
Yeah.

1747
01:39:15,160 --> 01:39:16,160
Well, thank you.

1748
01:39:16,160 --> 01:39:18,320
I really do appreciate it.

1749
01:39:18,320 --> 01:39:21,320
It's a cool opportunity to get to share with people.

1750
01:39:21,320 --> 01:39:26,000
And at the end of the day, I hope someone hears this and either goes and looks at our

1751
01:39:26,000 --> 01:39:32,480
Instagram or contacts us because we truly care about the community.

1752
01:39:32,480 --> 01:39:36,240
I feel like we've built a really, really good team that it's not about money.

1753
01:39:36,240 --> 01:39:41,440
I tell people this every time when I teach a class, if you go look at our page and you

1754
01:39:41,440 --> 01:39:45,880
want our programming or you want our range book or you want whatever it may be, I'll

1755
01:39:45,880 --> 01:39:47,600
give it to you for free.

1756
01:39:47,600 --> 01:39:51,000
I truly we care about making a difference.

1757
01:39:51,000 --> 01:39:54,400
And I've been very, very fortunate and blessed, honestly, to have a good group of guys that

1758
01:39:54,400 --> 01:39:55,400
have been around us.

1759
01:39:55,400 --> 01:40:02,920
And so anytime we're able to share that message that hopefully impacts the larger community,

1760
01:40:02,920 --> 01:40:19,400
I'm appreciative and I appreciate you having us on to be able to share that.