1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,880
This episode is sponsored by Life Aid.

2
00:00:01,880 --> 00:00:05,240
As you guys know, I made a promise to only bring companies on as sponsors

3
00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:08,560
whose products I actually use myself and believe in.

4
00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:10,600
And Life Aid is no different.

5
00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:14,080
I've witnessed a huge reliance on energy drinks by our population.

6
00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:17,400
And I totally understand we are chronically fatigued.

7
00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:21,000
However, sadly, I've seen the ill effects that come along with these products,

8
00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:25,440
whether it's the cardiac arrhythmias and chest pain, the GI distress, the anxiety.

9
00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:28,920
And I wanted to find a product that we could use for the same effect,

10
00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:31,320
but that would nourish our body instead of harm our body.

11
00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:33,840
And that product is Life Aid.

12
00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:36,200
One of the things that really bolstered my belief in it was

13
00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:40,560
it's the chosen sponsor from the Spartan Race and the CrossFit Games,

14
00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:43,400
which I think are two arenas that have contributed very, very well

15
00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:45,360
to the health of our nation.

16
00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:49,800
But they've taken the natural supplements, whether it's turmeric and chamomile,

17
00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:54,160
the vitamin Bs, the the glucosamines, and they've put them in the drinks

18
00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:56,680
so that they each one of them has an effect.

19
00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:59,800
My favorite one for us, the fatigued first responder

20
00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:02,840
military medical personnel is the Focus Aid.

21
00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:04,920
And they've taken the nootropic supplements.

22
00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:08,840
So these are supplements that nourish the brain, that increase brain function

23
00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:11,560
without hypercaffeinating it and relying on sugar.

24
00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:15,520
And what really appeals to me about this is, A, it works.

25
00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:17,800
It tastes great as well, but more importantly, it works.

26
00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:22,120
You get this mental clarity that was amazing, but you can also unwind

27
00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:24,120
at the end of your shift, whether you go back to the station,

28
00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:26,920
whether you get off your rotation.

29
00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:29,560
And that's important, too, because not being able to sleep

30
00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:33,080
when you're in your recovery time is extremely frustrating.

31
00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:36,320
So you can access all these products at their website,

32
00:01:36,320 --> 00:01:43,320
which is lifeaidbevco.com, L-I-F-E-A-I-D-B-E-V-C-O.com.

33
00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:46,200
But they wanted to reach out to you guys, our audience.

34
00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:50,240
And so they've offered one of two deals, either 15,

35
00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:54,280
one five dollars off a case of life aid, which is a 24 pack,

36
00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:57,520
which brings the price down to under two dollars a can.

37
00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:00,720
So you can work with your people in your ER or your station

38
00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:02,520
if you want to split it up.

39
00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:06,280
The other thing, which actually is even better value, is the subscription,

40
00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:08,240
the monthly delivery that they have.

41
00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:11,080
You get 10 percent off, which brings that down even further.

42
00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:14,440
Both of those are also free delivery to your doorstep.

43
00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:16,920
So you can see there's almost a zero risk with this

44
00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:18,640
because they believe in their product.

45
00:02:18,640 --> 00:02:21,080
And I'm sitting here telling you because I do as well.

46
00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:28,920
So you use the code SHIELD, S-H-I-E-L-D, code SHIELD at lifeaidbevco.com.

47
00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:33,760
And if you want to learn even more about this product, then listen to episode 207,

48
00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:36,800
where I interviewed the founder of Life Aid, Aaron Hind.

49
00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:40,240
Welcome, guys, to episode 209 of Behind the Shield podcast.

50
00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:44,480
As always, my name is James Gearing, and I am so excited to welcome this week

51
00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:47,920
retired Phoenix police officer Jason Shechterly.

52
00:02:47,920 --> 00:02:52,400
Jason had an incredible career, but in the middle of it, he was on the way

53
00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:57,520
to a call and was struck at one hundred and fifteen miles an hour by an out of control taxi,

54
00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:00,080
was trapped, burned very badly.

55
00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:05,360
But the events that unfolded from that specific incident are incredibly powerful.

56
00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:10,280
But then what he did with that incident for the rest of his career was even more powerful.

57
00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:14,720
So I urge you to put this at the top of your list, because this is going to be a very,

58
00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:19,200
very powerful and moving episode to listen to before we get to this episode.

59
00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:22,960
As I always say, please go to your podcast app, make sure you subscribe

60
00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:26,000
and just take a moment to leave a review and a rating.

61
00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:29,360
These ratings do make this show more visible to people that are looking for it.

62
00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:32,240
And then take your social media and share these shows.

63
00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:36,560
Jason's, for example, is one that I know is going to resonate with every single person

64
00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:37,760
on the planet pretty much.

65
00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:41,840
And the only way we can get his story to them is by sharing it.

66
00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:46,000
So with that being said, I introduce to you Jason Shekhteli. Enjoy.

67
00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:07,440
Jason, I want to start by saying thank you so much.

68
00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:11,040
I know Jay connected us and you guys just interviewed us.

69
00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:13,280
You guys just interviewed him on your podcast, didn't you?

70
00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:18,720
Yeah. Oh, Jay Dobbins is one who connected us.

71
00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:19,920
I believe so. Yeah.

72
00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:21,440
Oh, that makes me very happy.

73
00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:29,360
Yeah. You know, most of my podcasts, I say most, I've probably done four in the past six months

74
00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:35,360
and they've all come through Eagle Rise Speakers Bureau people, which Jay is a part of,

75
00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:40,720
along with Eric Redman and a few other pretty sharp guys.

76
00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:44,880
But yeah, I was lucky enough to do, my podcast is pretty new.

77
00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:52,880
I think yesterday was the 15th episode and it's 100% just a positive spin on law enforcement.

78
00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:58,640
And I've known Jay since 2004. He's a phenomenal, phenomenal guy.

79
00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:04,240
So he probably did connect us after doing yours and that makes me even more proud to be doing this.

80
00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:06,480
Brilliant. Well, I want to start at the very beginning then.

81
00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:09,280
So where are we finding you right now on planet Earth?

82
00:05:09,280 --> 00:05:16,960
I am in Phoenix, Arizona, born and raised here and raising my family now.

83
00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:22,560
Well, my family is pretty much raised. I got one child left at home who's finishing

84
00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:28,160
his sophomore year in high school. And yeah, this is where I call home.

85
00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:32,640
I travel a lot, a lot of public speaking, my full-time job.

86
00:05:33,840 --> 00:05:37,600
But that's where I am currently as my ground zero.

87
00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:41,600
Beautiful. So at the very beginning, where were you born exactly?

88
00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:45,120
And then what was your family dynamic? What did your parents do and how many siblings?

89
00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:51,440
I was born here in Phoenix, Arizona, right in the heart of Phoenix at an old

90
00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:55,680
place called Maryville Hospital that you guys familiar with the valley would know it well.

91
00:05:56,480 --> 00:06:04,320
I born to a couple of just fantastic parents. My dad was an engineer dealing mostly in

92
00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:11,520
explosives. My mom was a stay at home mom, which I count my blessings that we had that opportunity

93
00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:17,280
for her to be home. And I have an older brother who's about nine years older. He was also a

94
00:06:17,280 --> 00:06:24,000
Phoenix police officer, retired and now moved out of state. And then I have an older sister

95
00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:32,960
who currently lives here with her husband and kids. My dad has since passed away a couple of

96
00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:37,760
years ago on the date of my accident of all days, which is something we could talk about because

97
00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:46,480
the ironies in my story are endless when it comes to that date. But yeah, my family dynamic was

98
00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:52,400
great. Great schools, great friends, played sports. I just had the, I had a story of a childhood.

99
00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:57,200
Beautiful. Now I want to explore that a little bit because one thing that strikes me from your

100
00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:01,600
story is obviously, we're going to get to it. There was a huge trauma, but I think it's

101
00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:09,520
a huge trauma. But the overall impression I get of you is that you had the kind of upbringing where

102
00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:16,320
gratitude and kindness clearly seem to be very embedded into how you were raised, which ultimately

103
00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:20,400
seemed to prepare you for not only what you went through, but what you did with that as well.

104
00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:24,720
So what were your parents' philosophy on raising you guys?

105
00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:32,960
Well, you know, I love that that comes through because when I look back on my life, I don't see

106
00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:44,080
any defining moments because I had such a good childhood. I had nothing go wrong, no adversity,

107
00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:52,160
no death in the family, no divorce. I mean, I just kind of cruised through life. I wasn't raised in a

108
00:07:52,160 --> 00:08:02,240
religious background. My dad, who I was so, so close to, I mean, he truly was, like a lot of

109
00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:09,440
people say that their dads were their heroes. I really looked up to my dad, but my dad was an old

110
00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:16,400
school New Jersey kind. And the first time he ever said, I love you, was the night before I went

111
00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:24,400
to the military. I was 18 years old. But for those first 18 years, there was never a doubt of how much

112
00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:32,000
he loved me, how proud he was of me. And my mom was fantastic with how she raised us. I love the

113
00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:38,400
dynamic of the separation in our ages for my siblings. My older brother is nine years older,

114
00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:44,320
my sister is five years older, and I'm in a similar situation now with my own kids. And I love the

115
00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:54,480
beauty of the time gaps and the differences. But in order to be honest, growing up, it was

116
00:08:55,840 --> 00:09:03,680
almost way too much of smooth sailing. I always loved life. I always appreciated life. But

117
00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:11,040
there was never any problems. It was pretty remarkable. I was very, very lucky, which

118
00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:18,640
later, as we'll talk about, set me up to be the least prepared person for what I was going to.

119
00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:23,520
Yeah, what I got from that whole thing, and it's kind of the same path I've

120
00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:27,520
traveled as well. So I went through, my parents did get divorced, but it was when I was 18,

121
00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:35,680
I was kind of pretty much out the home anyway. And so you ended up having this event in your life,

122
00:09:35,680 --> 00:09:43,600
which then opened doors as far as a platform and giving back as well. But before that,

123
00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:49,920
you went from this idyllic life, as did I. But then you came out with this gratitude and this

124
00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:54,560
want to make the world better. And I think that's something that when we turn on our televisions,

125
00:09:54,560 --> 00:09:59,040
I'm not talking about people in general, but the stories we're told through our devices,

126
00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:05,360
through our TVs, it's almost like a, I've got mine, screw everyone else kind of thing. And so

127
00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:11,360
it's so endearing when you meet someone who hasn't been through hell, who's had kind of things,

128
00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:18,400
kind of, not handed to them, but a pretty non-traumatic upbringing that goes, because of this,

129
00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:24,560
I therefore owe it to everyone else to serve and try and make the world better and use the gift

130
00:10:24,560 --> 00:10:31,360
that I was given to raise other people up. Yeah, I love hearing that, any kind of

131
00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:37,120
similarities between us, but you're hitting the key points. I don't find it hard

132
00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:44,560
to simply understand, no matter what you believe in, why you put on this earth, why you were created,

133
00:10:44,560 --> 00:10:51,360
all that stuff. I'm a God-fearing guy. I go to church with my family now and I have my own

134
00:10:51,360 --> 00:11:00,960
very peaceful and serene spirituality within myself that gets me through a lot. But the simple

135
00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:09,280
understanding that every day, wanting to be grateful for something, wanting to give back

136
00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:13,840
to others, wanting to leave the world

137
00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:21,440
better than you found it, and on small scales each day. And where that appreciation came from,

138
00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:28,560
I do remember being a very positive child, a very positive young man, but that more came from

139
00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:36,080
just the easy flow of life. Not coming from divorced parents, or even for you,

140
00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:42,240
for you to get divorced at 18. I'm sure you had a lot to go through with that, maybe some anger,

141
00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:47,680
whatever the reasons are behind that, but you were 18, you were an adult. When you go through it,

142
00:11:47,680 --> 00:11:53,440
when you're a two-year-old, you're dividing households every other weekend, things like that.

143
00:11:53,440 --> 00:12:01,440
I never had to go through things like that. So to just appreciate life and want to make it better,

144
00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:07,760
so to just appreciate life and want to make it better for other people. And you're right about,

145
00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:12,960
I know I'm getting kind of long-winded, I hope you're happy to edit some of these, but I want to

146
00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:19,760
always share my true feelings with you. But turning out, I'm a news junkie. I love to soak

147
00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:26,000
up information, whether it be reading, watching the news. And that's what I'm constantly

148
00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:33,280
conflicted with is the people that I see on TV. They don't seem like they're genuinely trying to

149
00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:37,520
make the world a better place. They're out for themselves. I can find the inspiration I need on

150
00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:43,760
social media. I can follow you. I can follow Jay Dobbins. I can follow Jason Redman and some

151
00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:50,320
of the other people that give me inspiration. And it's right there, thank God. But turning out just

152
00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:57,680
the news every day, you're like, good Lord, the world is a rough place right now. Yeah,

153
00:12:57,680 --> 00:13:00,720
absolutely. I'm not going to be editing any of that out, by the way. Okay.

154
00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:07,360
I love it. So yeah, no, I couldn't agree more. Now, getting back to your childhood just for a

155
00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:10,720
moment, so what about the physical side? Were you an athlete when you were young?

156
00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:20,480
I was. I wouldn't say anything stellar. I was, you know, what's that old saying? Jack of all trades,

157
00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:29,920
master of none. I was very competitive and competent in whether I was an excellent bowler

158
00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:37,920
as a young child. I was good at basketball. I was good at baseball. I never played football.

159
00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:42,800
And that only comes from, I always wanted to, but my parents were very strict on that.

160
00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:49,200
And when I started high school, I was very small, like right now, 6'3", 200 pounds.

161
00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:57,360
And when I started high school, I was five feet tall, 100 pounds. I was a very late bloomer when

162
00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:02,800
it came to fury and growth. So I show up for high school, my mom's like, hey, you want to sign up

163
00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:07,840
for football? And I'm thinking, are you freaking crazy? I have no idea how to play. I'm going to

164
00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:16,080
get crushed. But I was also, my real love from hanging out with my dad as a young child was

165
00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:28,800
playing golf. And I had a natural gift for, had a good swing and ability to be creative, shape shots.

166
00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:35,920
And I loved it. I loved the challenge. There's nothing more frustrating than the game of golf.

167
00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:43,360
And later in life, I geared toward that full time. I gave up basketball, I gave up baseball,

168
00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:50,000
and I dedicated myself just to golf later in my high school years. But yeah, sports was, I loved

169
00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:58,560
them all. And I still do, whether watching them or playing them, even with my injuries,

170
00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:06,240
I still loved the ball. I still am pretty good at golf. And that was a, I think sports,

171
00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:11,680
I don't ever want to take away from people who are not into sports. And I have a couple children who

172
00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:17,280
are anti sports. I have one who's an incredible jockey, and I have two who are like, yeah, I

173
00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:25,040
don't care anything about those games. But I think sports teaches you a lot in life and

174
00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:33,840
in the camaraderie, the teamwork, the it's not me, it's for somebody else. That carried through

175
00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:39,920
preparing me for my service in the military, then my service as a police officer, and then

176
00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:43,840
the team that I was surrounded by that helped me get through

177
00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:50,400
the initial injury all the way to my health and happiness today. It's almost like it's been a

178
00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:58,960
constant sport my whole life. Now, do you find that your love of sport, your love of movement and the

179
00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:05,680
human body earlier in life was one of the driving forces to get back as much of that physicality as

180
00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:11,840
you could post injury? Oh, huge. Yeah, I just, that's the one thing I couldn't accept. And

181
00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:17,280
I didn't care if it was friends or doctors telling me something as simple as look, you're not going

182
00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:21,760
to play golf again, you're not going to go back to work, you're not going to shoot a gun, you're

183
00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:26,400
never going to, there's no way those deformed hands of yours are ever going to fit into

184
00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:32,080
a bowling ball, you're not going to feel the hole of racket and get a good cardio workout.

185
00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:38,880
I didn't care what they said. Every amount of it was like, yeah, I'm going to do all those things

186
00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:48,000
because when you are physically active, and speaking from the point of view of I've had

187
00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:53,840
a lot of good drugs flow through my system, a lot of good drugs. Another thing we got in common.

188
00:16:54,640 --> 00:17:04,400
Yeah, a lot of good drugs. And I would say that the knowledge that what you do when you're active,

189
00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:13,040
the pitocin that is dumped inside you, the adrenaline you feel, the smile, the laughter,

190
00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:20,080
those are all instantaneous things that make you feel there is no drug in the world that can make

191
00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:26,000
you feel what those things do. So that was a big part of my dedication. Brilliant. All right. Well,

192
00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:29,760
you mentioned about the service. So was that your initial career goal even when you were in high

193
00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:39,600
school? Service as far as the military? Yes, the military. No, it actually wasn't. Service as far

194
00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:45,440
as being a police officer, I knew at a young age it was something I wanted to do because my older

195
00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:53,680
brother had become a cop and I saw, just going on ride-alongs, just seeing what him and his friends

196
00:17:53,680 --> 00:18:01,520
were doing. Like, yeah, I kind of like this job. Maybe I'll do that. But I was also growing up in

197
00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:08,160
the 80s, growing up in West Phoenix, horse property. I was kind of a country boy. I liked to ride

198
00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:13,600
horses, I liked to ride ATCs, the ones that are illegal now, the old fashioned three wheelers and

199
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:20,880
hanging out with my friends on my BMX bike. Just that great 80s childhood jamming out to

200
00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:26,560
all the incredible music that I still love. You read the book, I mean, John

201
00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:32,800
Cougar-Mellicamp, R.E.L. Speedwagon, Def Leppard. I mean, these were my anthems growing up. So

202
00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:42,080
I did not have a, I want to serve, I want to give back to others mentality at that young age. But

203
00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:48,640
I'm not insulting myself. I just didn't have the maturity. But I knew I wanted to be

204
00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:54,720
a cop. But looking back on 16, 17, 18, it was more for selfish reasons.

205
00:18:56,720 --> 00:19:00,080
So those reasons were more kind of the image of then?

206
00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:09,520
Yeah, I wanted to be the guy in uniform. And I wanted to have the ability to,

207
00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:18,320
yeah, I got to find the right word. I never was affected by like, a power of it. It was, but to

208
00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:30,800
have the ability to affect people's lives in a positive way, or to take somebody who's in a very

209
00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:35,680
negative situation. And even though in the police world, you're going to make their situation a lot

210
00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:43,040
more negative for a temporary time, whether they be going to jail or be getting fines on traffic

211
00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:52,400
tickets or things like that. I still viewed that as being a part of the solution and trying to get

212
00:19:52,400 --> 00:20:01,120
people on the right path. So it was kind of the all consuming, what it means to be a police officer.

213
00:20:01,120 --> 00:20:05,840
And then on the selfish side, I'm like, hey, the stuff I see on TV is pretty cool. I want to take

214
00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:11,760
bad guys to jail. I want to get in full pursuits. I want to get in fights. That kind of stuff was

215
00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:16,720
like, yeah, let's go do that. Yeah. Well, Jay talks about the image of Miami Vice and then how

216
00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:19,360
the reality was trailers.

217
00:20:21,360 --> 00:20:26,400
He had me laughing because I never looked at it that way. But I'm like, yeah, you know what,

218
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:31,520
that white sport coat and driving that car, I could see why people might have been like,

219
00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:32,960
ooh, I want to do that.

220
00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:39,680
So then from that drive to be a police officer specifically, how did you find yourself entering

221
00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:40,240
the Air Force?

222
00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:48,160
So I'm pretty good at golf. Graduated high school, got a scholarship to a small college

223
00:20:48,160 --> 00:21:00,400
here in Arizona. And I'll try to make a long story short, but I like golf is a very difficult sport.

224
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:09,040
And I finished second in the state championship way back in 1990. And the guy who won goes to ASU

225
00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:15,520
and played with Phil Mickelson. And I am the first person to play in the state championship.

226
00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:24,320
And I ended up at a much smaller school. It's a very competitive thing. And then the coach who

227
00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:31,200
recruited me was a great guy. And then he left right before I started. So I get this other coach

228
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:38,400
who kind of legendary in Arizona, but him and I did not click, did not have chemistry. I mean,

229
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:44,560
he was the type of guy that when we got done, he would look at his notepad and tell me how many

230
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:50,240
times I said the F word on the golf course. I'm like, well, yeah, it's golf. I'm going to say

231
00:21:50,240 --> 00:22:03,680
the F word quite a few times. So he kind of turned me off from just that. And then I also started to

232
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:09,360
get to the point where I'm like, wow, there are some, I think I'm good at golf. There are some guys

233
00:22:09,360 --> 00:22:15,360
out here who can flat play this game. I cannot hit the ball the way they do. I cannot score the way

234
00:22:15,360 --> 00:22:20,880
they do. So starting to have a little realization. And then again, I knew I wanted to be a cop. I knew

235
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:28,400
what my future held. And a lot of my friends that I had grown up with in high school, they were

236
00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:33,840
starting to get into a little bit of trouble. They were starting to go down some paths that

237
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:41,360
I just was not going to gravitate towards. So it was a very strange thing. I look at my kids now

238
00:22:41,360 --> 00:22:47,360
and I think if you did what I did, I would absolutely knock your head right off your shoulders.

239
00:22:47,360 --> 00:22:52,080
But I went to a recruiter one day, Air Force, a lot of my family, my dad, my grandfather,

240
00:22:52,880 --> 00:23:02,080
served in the Air Force. And I wanted to recruit by myself at 18 years old, and just very openly

241
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:07,520
said, look, I need some structure and discipline. And I want to serve my country, follow the footsteps

242
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:14,800
of the rest of the men in my family. How do I do it? And I made some mistakes because I was naive,

243
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:21,600
but that's kind of how that came about. It was a very spontaneous, although life-changing

244
00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:27,200
way of decision. Right. So when you said made mistakes, are you talking about not

245
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:32,880
choosing specific areas within the Air Force? Right. When you said that? 100%. Okay. The reason

246
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:37,520
I asked that, you know, the best recruiting story I've heard is a guy, Pat McNamara, who

247
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:44,480
now teaches weapons. He was a Delta Force operative. And his dad actually sent a friend of

248
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:49,680
theirs who was a lawyer to the recruiting office to make sure that he actually got what he walked

249
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:57,840
in that again. That's a smart way to do it. It sounds like it now. I walked in. You know,

250
00:23:59,360 --> 00:24:04,960
we have to be respectful of the military. Especially the Air Force. The Air Force is an

251
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:13,680
exact replica of civilian life. Everything that we have every day, the Air Force has, only it's

252
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:22,400
just mirrored within the confines of their setup. And so they have jobs to fill. They have people

253
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:30,640
who are retiring and things like that. So I walked in and he said, what do you want to do? Well,

254
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:37,440
I was 18 years old and I was alone. I didn't know the extent of what you could do. I didn't know

255
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:41,600
you could learn to be an accountant, an X-ray technician, all these things that would have

256
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:46,080
really set me up later in life. And without a college degree, of course, I'm going to be a

257
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:51,040
non-commissioned officer. And I said, well, I want to be a cop when I get home here in Phoenix. So

258
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:56,880
I'd like to be a cop in the Air Force. Well, I'm sure he was licking his chops thinking, oh,

259
00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:04,560
I got this kid. And he said, okay. And I signed the papers and then come to find out there are two

260
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:14,320
different versions of police work in the Air Force. And I got the not so fun, not so productive in the

261
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:22,560
future. So you weren't like diving, skydiving, gun battles, police chases. No, listen, I went through,

262
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:29,200
so I signed up and signed the papers, came home, told my parents I joined the Air Force, which

263
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:35,360
that just gives you an inclination into how life was back then. Again, my kids did this. And one of

264
00:25:35,360 --> 00:25:40,880
my kids walked in the door and said, hey, I joined the military today. I just can't even imagine

265
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:45,440
my reaction. I went home and said, I joined the Air Force. And my parents were like, oh, good for

266
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:53,760
you. So I went to basic training at Lackland Air Force Base. It's the Air Force. I'm not insulting

267
00:25:53,760 --> 00:26:00,720
them. The Air Force is awesome, but it's easy. And it was six weeks. I did. And then I find out I am

268
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:08,320
security police, which I'm like security. That doesn't have the same ring as law enforcement.

269
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:13,440
And a few months goes by, I complete my training. And all of a sudden I'm in Grand Forks, North

270
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:24,320
Dakota, in minus 40 degree weather staring at V1 bombers and a nuclear facility thinking, how in the

271
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:31,840
world did I get myself in this situation? So you were basically sentry duty then, but not

272
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:36,880
even for people. Completely sentry duty. I mean, out there all alone, walking around an airplane

273
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:41,120
in the middle of the night again, North Dakota. I'm sure some of your listeners have been there. It is

274
00:26:41,120 --> 00:26:48,480
crazy cold up there. I slipped. New Year's Eve, my first New Year's Eve there, I got there in October.

275
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:55,360
Two months later, New Year's Eve, I slipped on the ice, fell on my M16, snapped my collarbone

276
00:26:55,360 --> 00:27:01,760
right in half. And again, laying on the ground, 40 degree below. I'm thinking, how did I get here?

277
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:06,000
There was a constant theme of, what am I doing? How in the world am I here?

278
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:14,320
So what was the highlight of your military service then before you transitioned out?

279
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:24,080
Well, the highlight for me looking back was exactly why I went into the recruiter,

280
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:28,320
exactly what I said to him. I need structured discipline. That's what it did for me.

281
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:34,720
And while I make fun of the weather in North Dakota, it was a nice change from

282
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:42,320
a big city. The people were so incredibly kind. You don't lock your doors back then. It was just

283
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:50,320
a fun two years. And then I got a remote assignment to Korea. I mean, I turned 21 over there. What an

284
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:58,320
incredible experience in life. Then I had a little bit of a setback. I wanted to come home. I got

285
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:03,840
assigned to Luke Air Force Base in Phoenix. And right before I got home, I mean, two weeks before

286
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:11,200
they pulled those orders on me. So it was a little bit of a, like, oh, that sucks. I'm going to be

287
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:16,080
stuck back in the Northern Tier. And then I got to Eglin Air Force Base in Florida. I get down

288
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:22,320
there. And again, cruising through life could be more happy. The panhandle of Florida is I've got

289
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:28,320
an uncle who lives in Panama City. I'm playing golf with him every week. Life is great. I get a call

290
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:34,400
one night at nine o'clock, PM saying, hey, get your stuff. You're on an airplane at midnight.

291
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:40,400
We're not telling you where you're going because Eglin is a mobility base worldwide deployment.

292
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:47,600
This was 1994. I got on an airplane and with 44 other guys. And I ended up in Guantanamo Bay,

293
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:56,640
Cuba for the 1994 Haitian refugee crisis. So I don't I can't say that I had a highlight,

294
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:04,320
but I have no bad memories of anything that took place. I loved just the structure, the discipline,

295
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:10,240
the people I worked with, the people I worked for, and wearing that uniform and knowing that I was

296
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:20,560
doing a very small part that was much bigger than myself was a great thing to get instilled in you

297
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:28,560
in your 19, 20, 21 years on this earth. Those are some formative years. And so I would say that's

298
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:29,360
my highlight.

299
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:34,480
Brilliant. And again, that seems to be that gratitude that's inherent in you coming out,

300
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:41,920
even with that. I think that's, you can even some shitty, you know, employment portions of my life

301
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:46,720
come away and it's like, all right, well, I learned mainly what not to do, but it's still a lesson.

302
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:54,480
So, right. Brilliant. All right. So then you got out of the Air Force. So you had quite a

303
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:59,840
challenge actually getting into a department. So if you wouldn't mind just kind of walking me through

304
00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:02,640
getting into the academy and then and then getting hired.

305
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:14,640
Okay. Yeah, it's you read the book and this is not I don't go into quite this amount of detail

306
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:26,400
normally in my my public speaking just for time purposes. But the actual truth behind it is I came

307
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:36,800
home with my honorable discharge and you know, I'm 22 years old. I want to be a cop and life is just

308
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:42,000
that easy. Go put in an application and you'll get the job, right? That's just how you take things

309
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:55,360
for granted, especially when you've had no adversity in life. And I tested was not successful.

310
00:30:55,360 --> 00:31:06,400
Just I look back at it now and think it was more maturity and just not just not being ready. I

311
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:10,560
guess I didn't make it to the oral board process. And for any people out there been to

312
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:19,840
law enforcement or firefighter, the process, it's a serious process. You they can't just hire somebody

313
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:30,800
simply because they say, hey, I want this job. So I was not successful and tried again, tried the

314
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:37,600
several departments and I didn't go college degree. This is what I'm going to do. Need a job, need

315
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:46,160
a job, need good benefits. I want to be a cop. And I just was not making it some other departments.

316
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:51,680
It's not that I failed their process. I just they weren't hiring that many people. Phoenix, I

317
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:58,000
did not make it to the process a couple of times. And I finally it was kind of the the old fox in

318
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:07,200
the grapes story where, oh, I didn't want that job anyway. It's their loss, not not mine. They're

319
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:14,960
missing out on a good cop. And I got a job with Arizona Public Service, one of the two main power

320
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:20,160
companies here in the valley where I live. And it's it's a great, great company. They're huge.

321
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:26,560
You get great benefits. You make good money. I had gotten married at this time. I had two little

322
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:31,280
kids, a daughter and son. I had a lot of responsibilities. And I started out to Pelliburg

323
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:35,280
nuclear plant and I got an apprenticeship to be a lineman and I'm one of the guys that work on

324
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:44,640
the overhead and underground power lines. Life was was really set for me. And and now I'm 26

325
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:52,800
years old. I'm making a lot of money back in the 1990s, especially for a guy with no college

326
00:32:52,800 --> 00:33:04,880
education. And again, I'm a I'm a redneck. I grew up on basically, you know, a farm. I had chickens,

327
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:10,960
I had horses, I had all these animals. I was into the blue collar work. I loved construction,

328
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:19,680
I loved putting things together. And life was good. And so what happened to me was on March 26th of

329
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:26,640
1999, came home from work and I turned on the five o'clock news and the lead story was pink

330
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:32,080
police officer Mark Atkinson had just been shot and killed in the line of duty. And that

331
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:40,240
moment in time that standing there, I can still see him wearing my work boots, my jeans, my long

332
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:49,200
sleeve blue collared shirt. And I knew right then and there that it was time. And that's the job I

333
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:54,480
had to be doing. I'm going to wear that uniform. And I'm going to do what he was doing and I'm

334
00:33:54,480 --> 00:34:01,520
going to honor him. And that's when it all clicked, clicked for me that aha moment. And I

335
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:09,120
was like, and so I fill out another application. And this time, magically, you do things for the

336
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:14,080
true right reason. I cruised right to the process. I mean, it's a long process. It took me

337
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:21,040
three, four months. I didn't start the Academy until September of 1999. But that's kind of the

338
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:28,960
true backstory of the struggles I had getting there. And then that plays into the timing of

339
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:33,840
place later. Yeah. And then that I think is a very powerful part of your story, though. And I heard

340
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:38,960
it, I think kind of you talked about it in one of the interviews I listened to. But it is, there are

341
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:44,240
police officers, firefighters, medics out there that have just had door off, a door off, a door

342
00:34:44,240 --> 00:34:48,720
closed in their face. And they've still kept pushing and pushing. It's that burning desire

343
00:34:48,720 --> 00:34:52,480
to serve that's carried them. And just like you, they may have found themselves in some other

344
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:57,280
position for a while, but they end up getting dragged back. And like you said, when the time

345
00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:03,840
is right, when those stars have aligned, all of a sudden all those doors fly open. That is for sure.

346
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:10,720
And now, you know, with a little life experience and all the people I've worked around, both the

347
00:35:10,720 --> 00:35:18,800
good and the bad, the one thing that I have been able to grow to appreciate is those aren't jobs

348
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:24,800
that should be just given to somebody because they want them or because they throw their name

349
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:31,680
on an application or they need good benefits and a steady paycheck. These are jobs that

350
00:35:32,720 --> 00:35:39,120
to be done the right way, they have to be calling, they have to be done for the right reasons.

351
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:47,200
And the successes and failures that I have seen in both police and fire with people I've done and

352
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:53,360
worked around, it always boils down to that exact thing. People who do it for the right reason

353
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:58,880
end up successful or even in a situation like mine, you're able to overcome

354
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:07,600
injuries, setbacks, because every day I'm like, I know exactly why I put my name on that application

355
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:14,480
and I have no regrets for it. So it shouldn't be easy. Back then, I thought it should and I

356
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:20,000
wished it was. I took it for granted. But the way things worked out for me, I wouldn't change how

357
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:23,840
that went. Yeah. And I honestly couldn't agree with you anymore. And it shows in what happened,

358
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:28,240
especially when, and we'll talk about in a bit, but your return to law enforcement after the event,

359
00:36:28,240 --> 00:36:36,000
which I mean, talk about the burning desire, no pun intended. The drive to serve, to carry you

360
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:42,480
through that is just, I mean, it's a huge testament for who you are and the desire to serve.

361
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:48,480
Now, what about the academy itself? Was it the kind of academy where they set the bar pretty high,

362
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:57,040
that you really had to earn that position? Yeah, the academy was, you know, back then,

363
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:04,240
law enforcement's in a down cycle right now. A lot of people don't want to be cops because you,

364
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:11,840
of what you're hearing and seeing on the news and how that's law enforcement's being portrayed. So

365
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:17,680
you get a lot, I think, what really qualified people who maybe shy away from thinking, I'm

366
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:28,240
not going to put myself, excuse me, through that. But back when I went, we used to take the test,

367
00:37:28,240 --> 00:37:33,040
it was called the Phoenix Convention Center, which is a huge, huge building with a lot of

368
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:41,920
events here. And I walked in, there was a thousand people for maybe 20 spots. And they just did,

369
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:48,640
a lot of people wanted to be cops back then, as with firefighters. So it was a difficult thing.

370
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:57,120
It made you appreciate it more, the challenge of becoming a police officer and the seriousness

371
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:05,920
of the advocates that they are going to hire. Yeah. And then just like you said before, you and

372
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:12,640
Jay, your heroes were TJ Hooker and Miami Vice, and it was all this positive image. And now it's

373
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:18,960
the dirty cops and the alcoholics and the drug addicts. So even in the films, it's hard to find

374
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:26,960
a positive police hero these days. It is. And I hear this not only from law enforcement. I think

375
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:33,920
fire, we're still doing okay, but actually the military too and the special forces organizations,

376
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:39,920
not only the image, but just the pool as well because physicality, because sport

377
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:45,920
is not or hasn't been as popular. And some of the things like video games and other areas are

378
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:50,960
pulling some of these kids away that the pot that we can draw these applicants from is actually

379
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:59,680
shrinking too. Yes, I agree. Yeah, but unfortunately, the qualified people, it's just, I still teach at

380
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:07,600
our academy. And so I see the good and the bad on both sides, the people who were there just, again,

381
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:16,080
it seems like a cool job. I need a paycheck and good benefits versus the people who are like me.

382
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:22,960
I know I put my name on this application and I am going to do this job with the honor and humility

383
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:30,240
behind it. Fire has, I wouldn't say they have it easier. I could have never, ever been a fireman.

384
00:39:30,240 --> 00:39:34,960
And I'm happily and humbly will admit that I used to go on calls and see what those fools did. I'm

385
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:42,240
like, you guys are crazy. I wouldn't do that job. But people, being a firefighter is a little more,

386
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:48,880
I don't know if prestigious is the right word, but everybody loves firefighters. They say babies. They

387
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:54,720
are only there to help you. Whereas when a police officer shows up, they're not always there to help

388
00:39:54,720 --> 00:39:59,760
you. A lot of times they're there to make your life a little bit worse. And so people don't like

389
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:06,720
them quite as much. Yeah. Well, police, you know, hold us to a level of accountability too. You know

390
00:40:06,720 --> 00:40:11,360
what I mean? Well, as they should. We have laws, we have a constitution and without law and order.

391
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:19,200
And I know a lot of people in the world today, politicians or whatever, seem to think that

392
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:25,760
all police officers are bad and we don't need that. But I can't even begin to fathom what

393
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:32,000
the country would look like if we did not have law and order. If you did not have people out there

394
00:40:32,720 --> 00:40:37,920
making sure that you're safe at night in your home and in your bed and people lose sight of that. It's

395
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:45,520
so, it's just amazing to me. Yeah. What exactly? And I put a post up today that reposted that video

396
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:50,240
that someone had made about law enforcement. Oh yeah, it's a great video. Yeah, it was. And for some

397
00:40:50,240 --> 00:40:56,080
reason, all we see on the TV is either those incidences were actually the police officer was

398
00:40:56,080 --> 00:41:00,560
right. They're just twisting it. Like there was one recently that I saw posted and it was

399
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:06,640
someone saying this kid was shot, he was unarmed. And then when you actually looked into the case,

400
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:12,240
the car that he was in had just murdered someone on a drive-by shooting. And then the kid ran out.

401
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:17,120
And I don't know if he stopped and turned to them or what, but that's kind of, you've crossed the

402
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:24,160
line of innocent lamb by that point. Now you're basically an armed car full of murderers. And

403
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:29,200
so that's a different dialect. But then you also get these ones where yes, the police officer was

404
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:33,120
completely wrong. And I even argue with some of these, like are they sleep deprived? Are they

405
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:37,520
overworked? Are there other areas that cause them to make that mistake in the first place

406
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:46,720
the job has created? But we don't report on the other 98% of the men and women who are out there

407
00:41:46,720 --> 00:41:52,800
doing everything right, not shooting people when they shouldn't be, not using too much force,

408
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:59,440
not chasing people through school zones and just all the right way. But we never ever see that

409
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:05,760
on the media. And so therefore, the profession is being demonized and people that aren't educating

410
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:09,680
themselves and just believing whatever network that they're glued to for 12 hours a day,

411
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:16,080
are thinking that that is the entire police force or the entire military or the entire fire department.

412
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:24,720
Yes. Yeah, craziness. Yeah, really, we can talk for hours on that.

413
00:42:24,720 --> 00:42:32,640
And I'm just the subject of what these men and women put up with. It's one of the few colleagues

414
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:37,200
in life. It's like being a teacher, it's like being a nurse, police and fire,

415
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:43,200
there's really nothing like it. Absolutely. All right. Well, then you talked about March 26,

416
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:51,120
a very pivotal moment in 1999. So let's get to March 26, 2001. If you could kind of lead us

417
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:56,160
through that day and then I'd love to explore actually that the response from the fireside and

418
00:42:56,160 --> 00:43:02,160
how everything came together in that one moment. Yeah, this is something that I am

419
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:11,280
very open to very much love talking about, that's for sure, because there's just so much that goes

420
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:18,560
around it. So again, I became a police officer because of ultimately because of the death of

421
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:27,440
Marqueex. And so made it to the academy, greatest four months of my life, loved every minute of it.

422
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:34,960
I think I was a little more at ease with the process because I had been in the military,

423
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:39,600
I understood that you're going to get yelled at, you're going to run, you're going to do pushups.

424
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:48,960
And learning law enforcement, I mean, this is a learning the law, learning how to take care of

425
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:58,400
yourself and conduct traffic stops, how to treat people with respect and kindness until it's time

426
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:03,920
for them to not be treated with that way. I mean, just everything that went into it, I was a sponge,

427
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:09,760
I soaked it up and I loved it. So hit the streets, it was everything I wanted it to be, all the fun,

428
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:18,240
romantic things that I had seen on TV about being a cop. And then did my year of probation.

429
00:44:18,240 --> 00:44:24,560
Again, life for me, perfect. 28 years old, parents are healthy and happy,

430
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:31,520
half of them married, all four of my grandparents are alive and married. I have never even suffered

431
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:36,960
a death in my family, let alone a divorce or a serious setback. And I've got a beautiful,

432
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:41,840
growing new family of my own. So I'm just cruising through life again. And I went to work at

433
00:44:42,720 --> 00:44:49,040
three in the afternoon on March 26th, not thinking much of it. Here we go, going to do another shift

434
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:55,920
and go home. I've got plans for the weekend. I've got the normal thoughts that we have as

435
00:44:55,920 --> 00:45:06,240
fathers or whatever on my mind. And about 1130 that night, I answered a call that was not in my

436
00:45:06,240 --> 00:45:12,800
area, a call that I really had no business answering up for. And I did that because the

437
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:19,200
officers that are busy, the call went unanswered, I wasn't doing anything. So I'm getting out,

438
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:22,880
shifting an hour and a half, I'll go take care of this. And it was a serious call, it was a dead

439
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:29,280
body call, a lot of blood in the apartment, possibly a violent crime I committed. So just

440
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:36,160
doing my job. And on my way to that call, running what we call code three, lights and siren, get

441
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:43,200
those as quickly as I can. And I stopped at a traffic light, red light, because even though

442
00:45:44,720 --> 00:45:48,480
you're running code three, as you know, you still got to come to a stop, you can't just

443
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:53,760
fly through a red light, you got to make sure people are going to yield to your emergency vehicle.

444
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:59,920
And it takes maybe a second and a half to clear the intersection. And just as I'm going to proceed,

445
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:06,160
my patrol car was struck from behind by a taxi cab. The driver was suffering in

446
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:14,080
epileptic seizure at the time. He was going over 100 miles an hour on a 40 mile an hour downtown

447
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:20,800
posted city street, something that's kind of unfathomable. But, you know, grand mall

448
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:28,160
epileptic seizure, you're not in control. So he happened to looking back on it, I think

449
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:36,400
gravitated toward my lights in that situation and slammed into the back of me. My patrol car was

450
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:41,920
driving the Ford Crown Victoria and they were very susceptible to rear and fuel fed fires.

451
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:49,440
A lot of officers had died in these types of crashes, countless civilians that you never hear

452
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:59,840
about on TV. And that's what happened. My car burst in flames, traffic me inside. I was knocked

453
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:07,040
unconscious, thankfully, for so many reasons, mentally, emotionally, as well as physically

454
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:14,960
that we can talk about not being in the chaos and the fear and trying to get out of that car

455
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:19,440
while you're sucking in all that heat and fire and smoke that those kind of things would have

456
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:29,920
killed me within minutes. So just from the moment I was hit, blessing upon blessing happened. I flew

457
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:37,840
through the intersection about 270 feet and I came to stop right in front of the fire truck

458
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:46,720
that was in the intersection. And a lot of things, you know, I'm big on things don't just happen.

459
00:47:46,720 --> 00:47:55,120
There is no such thing as instantaneous. There is so much that lead up to an event like this,

460
00:47:55,120 --> 00:48:01,040
decisions and choices that are made over years and years by different people. And

461
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:07,040
just so much went into the timing of this. I come to rest in front of a fire truck and

462
00:48:08,240 --> 00:48:17,680
the four people on this truck were just born to do what they were thrust into doing that night.

463
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:26,240
They were ready to go to work doing their individual jobs. You know, there's four

464
00:48:26,240 --> 00:48:31,280
firefighters on a truck. They've all got very specific individual jobs to do. The captain's on

465
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:36,080
the radio giving incident details. The engineer's getting her truck wrecked. One of the firefighters

466
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:42,960
has to battle the blaze. And they had a rookie, young rookie, 22 years old, was given the great

467
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:49,360
task of getting me out of the car. So they were faced with not only endangering their own safety,

468
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:57,440
but staring at a cop car engulfed in flames. And constant firefighters have a great way of teasing

469
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:02,240
each other and talking smack. And it's a whole lot of fun. But when it comes right down to it,

470
00:49:02,240 --> 00:49:07,360
you're not going to find two groups of people who will fight for each other more than those two

471
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:13,920
career fields. So I give them a lot of credit for what they went through with their adrenaline,

472
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:20,960
with the chaos of the moment and what they must have been experiencing individually.

473
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:28,000
Two good friends of mine, two cops, showed up within about 30 seconds, helped get me out of the

474
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:34,720
vehicle of which I was out of in 90 seconds. And that's hard to imagine from the time of impact.

475
00:49:34,720 --> 00:49:41,120
Fully engulfed in flames and I'm out of that car in 90 seconds and in an ambulance and on my way to

476
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:46,160
what I'll argue with anybody is the best burn center in the United States at Maricopa County

477
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:51,840
Hospital. I was only two and a half miles away from them and I was on their trauma table in less

478
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:58,880
than eight minutes. Amazing. Now, just to go back for a second. So the rookie had slept in through

479
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:06,000
the core at the fire station, is that right? Yes. One of the beauty, one of my favorite parts of this

480
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:14,320
and I say favorite parts because I'm a big believer in timing and people often talk about

481
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:23,440
miracles and God choosing who gets put in the situation or who gets to survive. And I have a

482
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:29,280
whole different belief system on that whole thing. But timing is what matters. Choices are what

483
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:34,320
matter. And yeah, three of them got on the truck and they waited. They were on their way to the same

484
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:38,880
dead body call that I was going to. So they weren't called to my call. They were headed to the same

485
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:47,280
scene I was. And they waited about 45 seconds for this rookie. And finally one of them went back

486
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:52,560
in the station and the young man was sound asleep in his bunk. He had never been in a

487
00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:59,360
never heard the alarm. And after those precious few seconds, I'm not standing here

488
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:08,640
sharing this story with you right now. It's unfortunate he was at that young age, he was deeply

489
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:14,560
affected by that. He ended up leaving the Phoenix Fire Department not too long afterwards. I do

490
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:24,720
believe that he is a firefighter in LA County now, which I am grateful for because I credit him so

491
00:51:24,720 --> 00:51:33,840
much with the reason that I'm alive. And again, he was the one that was faced with, all right, we all

492
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:43,360
have this job. Your job is to go get him out of that car. And that's a pretty tall order when

493
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:49,120
you're talking about a human being burned alive. Absolutely. Well, I just want to go back to firstly,

494
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:53,920
anyone listening who's a rookie or anyone that sleeps through a call and then gets chewed out,

495
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:58,080
I want you to start telling the story of Jason Sheckterly and how it's probably going to be for

496
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:08,560
a good thing. Exactly. Hey, timing is everything. Don't underestimate, don't automatically look at

497
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:15,200
it as a bad thing. There could be a reason behind it. But then on a serious note, so I listened to

498
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:20,960
the radio traffic, that one video that you guys have on the website. And you're absolutely right.

499
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:25,840
And this is something that I talk about all the time on the show. So part of it is trying to fix

500
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:30,000
the employer, the environment that we work, the shifts that these men and women work, the time to

501
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:34,880
have recovery, the training. And the other side is ownership of the firefighter and our own fitness

502
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:39,360
and our own training. And there is no question the fact that they physically got you out,

503
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:46,160
the fact that you heard them calling to bring the ambulance as you talk about right up to the door,

504
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:53,360
right up to the car. Everyone sounded calm and composed. It was articulate. And there was no

505
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:58,960
time for learning on the job in that call. So all the stuff that I preach, all the things that I

506
00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:04,960
try and do in my own career, I'm far from perfect. This is the time where you either save

507
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:12,000
a fellow police officer's life, or you stand back and watch them burn to death. And like you said,

508
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:18,960
those four men and women that were on that truck, the sum of their entire career was called

509
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:24,720
into action on that one moment. Exactly. And they all had come from

510
00:53:24,720 --> 00:53:30,720
different backgrounds of their own, different training. They were at different ages and stages

511
00:53:30,720 --> 00:53:44,240
of their career. So the responsibility of what they had to do in the moment, which for us,

512
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:51,360
four police officers, four firefighters, and I'll say this with the simple knowledge that I don't

513
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:56,240
care who you are or what uniform you're wearing. Fighter flight syndrome is very real within all

514
00:53:56,240 --> 00:54:02,960
of us. Yeah. Just because you go through training, just because you have a uniform on,

515
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:13,680
you're not always able to do what a particular situation calls for you to do. And that's why I,

516
00:54:13,680 --> 00:54:21,520
all these years, 18 years later, I constantly want to emphasize that these people did exactly

517
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:31,200
what they needed to do in their own categories with their own responsibilities.

518
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:35,120
Yeah. Now, what kind of entrapment did you have? I heard the seatbelt on the audio.

519
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:40,000
Was it just the seatbelt that was holding you in, or were you actually having like crushed

520
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:45,360
in part of the cruiser as well? Well, if you saw pictures of the cruiser, I mean, it's crushed.

521
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:54,560
God, I can't remember the exact measurements, but I want to say from back to front, hit it that

522
00:54:54,560 --> 00:55:16,720
speed. My car was roughly 84 inches of crush, but the driver's compartment was not crushed.

523
00:55:16,720 --> 00:55:26,560
I was not trapped inside in the form of twisted metal or things being caved in. I was

524
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:37,680
just very simply stuck in my seatbelt, unconscious in a burning vehicle with my window up. That was

525
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:46,000
the two things that they had to get through, was to get my window open and get me extracted from

526
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:52,960
the seatbelt. And I'm six foot three, pulling a six foot three guy who is dead weight

527
00:55:53,680 --> 00:56:01,840
and charred pretty badly, pulling the body window is not easy.

528
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:07,680
No, absolutely not. So again, I mean, just want to paint that scene a little bit because

529
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:13,520
from a first responders perspective, that is A, an incredibly physically challenging task,

530
00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:19,760
like you're saying, and then B, emotionally. And I hope the young man is listening to this today. And

531
00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:24,720
if he is, kudos to you for making that grab and the officers that helped and everyone else on that

532
00:56:24,720 --> 00:56:30,480
rig because you walk the walk, simple as that. And you are who we aspire to be.

533
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:35,520
Exactly. And what they need to know most and I still spend time with a couple,

534
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:43,040
the engineer and the firefighter who battled the blaze. I still spend time with them at least once

535
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:50,560
a year on the anniversary. And I always want them to see and know what you did that night.

536
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:56,480
It wasn't just those few seconds. It wasn't just getting me out of that car. Let's look at

537
00:56:56,480 --> 00:57:02,640
the ripple effect that took place after that. And I know a lot of first responders get to see

538
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:08,960
the fruits of their labor later in life. They only, you know, they do what they need to do,

539
00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:15,440
the task at hand, and then they go on to the next call. And as the calls pile up, you'll forget

540
00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:22,160
maybe what you did and how you impacted somebody's life. And I love to be able to show them

541
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:30,080
the smile on my face, the happiness and health of my family. That is something that's very important

542
00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:35,920
and I wish above anything, I wish every firefighter in the country would read my book just to say,

543
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:42,000
you know what, I've been on calls like that. I am one of those people and that's why I do this job.

544
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:49,360
Yeah. Well, speaking of the injuries, so one of my worst calls I ever had was not the same as yours,

545
00:57:49,360 --> 00:57:55,360
but it was a young man. He was either arson or suicide, but he ended up walking out of a burning

546
00:57:55,360 --> 00:57:59,840
building on fire. The only thing that wasn't burning his body was the soles of his feet.

547
00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:06,160
I would say it was three, a third degree burns, certainly all the way through his body. Some areas,

548
00:58:06,160 --> 00:58:11,760
some member, you know, parts of his anatomy were completely gone. So definitely, you know, even

549
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:19,840
more than fourth. And miraculously, he had normal vital signs. We had him talking, which was

550
00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:26,000
anatomically like you talk about, anatomically it was impossible. That gentleman actually passed

551
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:30,720
away. I mean, there was no happy ending to that one, but seeing the pictures and I urge people

552
00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:38,960
listening to watch the video on Jason's website, the trauma to your face and like you say, the fact

553
00:58:38,960 --> 00:58:47,280
that your airway wasn't affected was yet another, just defies all anatomy and physiology. So when

554
00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:51,280
you got to the hospital, what was their response to that?

555
00:58:52,720 --> 00:58:59,840
Well, they intubated me right away. I mean, I think my airway was constricted just because

556
00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:05,200
a lot of people don't know about burns is they will keep on burning. So,

557
00:59:05,200 --> 00:59:09,440
and it's the constriction of things. Like I give one of the things I credit with saving my life is

558
00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:17,440
my bulletproof vest because my chest was not harmed. Had my chest been burned, anything like

559
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:24,720
my arms and face, I would have died within just a couple of minutes. And the burns, so they just

560
00:59:24,720 --> 00:59:31,120
keep restricting, they just keep tightening. And basically, if you don't have any,

561
00:59:31,120 --> 00:59:42,400
if you don't have any interior injuries, you are still going to basically be suffocated or crushed

562
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:50,800
to death by the constrictiveness of the burns on the skin. So they were, they did intubate me with

563
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:57,200
the extent of the burn injuries to make sure I had an airway. And all that mattered was getting

564
00:59:57,200 --> 01:00:06,160
my family gathered around, telling them what was going on, which was pretty simple. Jason's not

565
01:00:06,160 --> 01:00:12,080
going to survive this. That was the extent of that conversation. I've never seen burns like this to

566
01:00:12,080 --> 01:00:18,640
somebody's head and face. And there's not much we can do about it. But we're going to get him into

567
01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:23,760
surgery, and we're going to get all of that dead bacteria of the tissue off of him. And so those

568
01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:32,000
were the first few hours it was getting the paperwork signed, getting my family to understand

569
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:39,600
what's going on and getting in there and basically removing all of the dead bacteria filled tissue,

570
01:00:40,800 --> 01:00:48,560
stopping the burns. But with that also comes the removal of the entire physical identity that I'd

571
01:00:48,560 --> 01:00:55,520
known for 28 years. And did you ever regain consciousness after the impact? Or did they put

572
01:00:55,520 --> 01:00:58,480
you into an induced coma before you had the chance to come around?

573
01:01:00,480 --> 01:01:07,440
They placed me into a medically induced coma. I have two very faint memories. And I spent a

574
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:14,560
lot of years wondering if I was just dreaming or whatever. When you're in a, again, my coma was

575
01:01:14,560 --> 01:01:21,920
medically induced, so not due to a head injury, not a coma like you might think of when you hear

576
01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:31,520
that awful word. But I have a faint memory of coming to when I was in the car. And it's very

577
01:01:31,520 --> 01:01:39,520
vivid. I remember everything being very dark, so loud, like a freight train. And I've heard

578
01:01:39,520 --> 01:01:48,240
from other firefighters when they are in the devastation of a fire that that's what it's not

579
01:01:48,240 --> 01:01:56,400
a quiet environment. It is overwhelmingly loud and intense. And I remember being surrounded by

580
01:01:56,400 --> 01:02:06,320
firefighters, but this is a second of a memory. And I do think maybe I was coming to, but your

581
01:02:06,320 --> 01:02:11,680
body kind of knows what it can and can't handle and shut back down for me. And then I have a

582
01:02:11,680 --> 01:02:21,760
memory of violently, like projectile bombing. And I found out later, my friend and I from my

583
01:02:21,760 --> 01:02:27,440
squad, we had just eaten our, you know, it was a night shift, we had eaten our lunch probably

584
01:02:27,440 --> 01:02:32,640
an hour and a half before my accident. And he was in the room with me. He's the one who identified

585
01:02:32,640 --> 01:02:40,160
me based on a tattoo that I had on my arm. And he said that when they intubated me, that I did

586
01:02:40,160 --> 01:02:46,640
projectile bombing all over the place. So those memories, they could have been real, I could

587
01:02:46,640 --> 01:02:55,360
have been waking up a little bit, but otherwise, it was a complete peace and being asleep until I

588
01:02:55,360 --> 01:02:59,280
was weaned out the medicine and woken up sometime later.

589
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:03,120
And you say sometime, how much, it was a pretty significant amount of time that you actually

590
01:03:03,120 --> 01:03:05,120
regained consciousness.

591
01:03:05,120 --> 01:03:12,400
Yeah, it was, again, medically induced and these drugs are, they know what they're doing. And

592
01:03:13,840 --> 01:03:22,480
as time went by, surgery was successful. Life seemed to be on the saving side versus

593
01:03:22,480 --> 01:03:28,720
he's going to pass away. And when it finally came time for them to decide to wake me up for

594
01:03:28,720 --> 01:03:34,080
their own reasons, see, you know, take a look at what I'm dealing with, let him know what's going

595
01:03:34,080 --> 01:03:42,320
on. My accident was on March 26, and they woke me up on June 12. So two and a half months in a coma.

596
01:03:43,840 --> 01:03:51,120
And a medically induced coma is the blink of an eye. I had a very, very bad, very bad

597
01:03:51,120 --> 01:03:57,040
blink of an eye. I say two and a half months and I promise you, it was no more than one second.

598
01:03:57,840 --> 01:03:59,840
In my world.

599
01:03:59,840 --> 01:04:04,720
Wow. So when you came around from that, you still had a lot of trauma to your eyes. So

600
01:04:04,720 --> 01:04:06,720
did you have any vision at all?

601
01:04:06,720 --> 01:04:10,480
Devastating trauma to my eyes? No, I was 100% blind. And that was part of the

602
01:04:10,480 --> 01:04:21,120
the devastation of waking up was just so many thoughts go to my head all of a sudden awake.

603
01:04:21,120 --> 01:04:26,720
And I was very clear headed. Didn't have a brain injury and anything like that. And when the

604
01:04:26,720 --> 01:04:32,960
medicine was clear, I knew I was in the hospital, I could smell it, I could hear it. I was thinking

605
01:04:32,960 --> 01:04:38,080
about I was just at work. Why can't I move? Why can't I open my eyes? I'm gonna be in a thousand

606
01:04:38,080 --> 01:04:43,600
thoughts pouring into my mind. And then I started my wife is in the room with me. And I started to

607
01:04:43,600 --> 01:04:54,000
find out very slowly about the injuries. And my blindness was due to my neck, head and face were

608
01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:58,640
the worst burns their fourth degree, which is down the last layers of muscle in the bone. So of course,

609
01:04:58,640 --> 01:05:08,160
my eyesight was heavily affected. And so they saw the damage to my corneas and they covered those

610
01:05:08,160 --> 01:05:16,400
with skin grafts. So my blindness was from my eyes being actually covered with other parts of my

611
01:05:16,400 --> 01:05:23,040
my skin. And that went on for about nine months. And to this day, it's my biggest

612
01:05:23,040 --> 01:05:28,960
biggest stroke, my biggest infarcity is my eyesight. Right. What about your hearing? I

613
01:05:28,960 --> 01:05:36,080
know you lost your ear. So were you able to hear at least that time? Yeah, I go back to the old

614
01:05:36,720 --> 01:05:44,400
saying that when one of your senses goes down, another one steps up and I was completely blind.

615
01:05:44,400 --> 01:05:52,400
I was laying motionless on my back. I was hooked up to all these. I had nothing. But anytime somebody

616
01:05:52,400 --> 01:05:59,600
would walk into my room, I was always super sensitive to where they were, what kind of the

617
01:05:59,600 --> 01:06:03,840
noises they were making, guessing what they were doing or when they were talking. So my hearing

618
01:06:04,960 --> 01:06:12,000
was always okay, even though I did lose my ears and I didn't have, you know, what doctors will say is

619
01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:18,240
of the necessary files to get sound in there. But I saw the holes in my ears and I was not in the

620
01:06:18,240 --> 01:06:24,240
fire long enough for it to creep in and do damage to the interior parts. My hearing has always been

621
01:06:24,240 --> 01:06:28,960
great. Right. And I want to move on from the trauma just from a medical perspective as well.

622
01:06:28,960 --> 01:06:33,040
When you have fourth degree burns, like you're saying all the way through pretty much to the bone,

623
01:06:33,760 --> 01:06:37,680
how what kind of because that's more than a skin graft, what did they do to actually start

624
01:06:38,320 --> 01:06:43,120
recreating, you know, or repairing where that horrendous damage had occurred on your face?

625
01:06:43,120 --> 01:06:49,280
Well, with me, again, the fourth degree to your neck, head and face, nobody survives that.

626
01:06:49,280 --> 01:06:58,960
It just it doesn't happen. And the doctors went through, I was a tissue donor. And so the gift of

627
01:06:58,960 --> 01:07:07,760
life for those people out there who are organ donors, it's easy to talk about being a heart

628
01:07:07,760 --> 01:07:12,960
transplant recipient or a lung recipient or a lot of people take for granted, you hear one

629
01:07:12,960 --> 01:07:18,400
of your favorite athletes in a football game tears his ACL and oh, my God, he's going to be

630
01:07:18,400 --> 01:07:24,880
out for a year. Well, you know what? Somebody died so that he could get a new ACL and get back on the

631
01:07:25,600 --> 01:07:32,880
road to recovery with his life. The gift of life is a ridiculously precious and special thing. And I

632
01:07:32,880 --> 01:07:39,680
was a tissue recipient and tissue donors. I travel around the country speaking a lot about this.

633
01:07:39,680 --> 01:07:46,080
You can help if you pass away today and you donated your tissue, you by yourself can help

634
01:07:47,360 --> 01:07:52,960
efforts of one hundred and twenty people. It's not just one heart. It's not just one kidney.

635
01:07:52,960 --> 01:08:03,920
It can go a long way in a lot of different areas. So I that helped me greatly in in surviving those

636
01:08:03,920 --> 01:08:08,880
initial few days of protecting me against the infections, which a lot of the burn survivors,

637
01:08:08,880 --> 01:08:17,920
you can survive a fire, you can survive a burn. It's the infections that come after that when you've

638
01:08:17,920 --> 01:08:24,800
lost that coverage in those fluids. And of course, the hospital battled numerous infections. So I had

639
01:08:24,800 --> 01:08:35,440
that. And then they did a what in 2001 was was probably considered rare and maybe pioneering.

640
01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:44,880
But there's a there's something called a Tegra. And I can't remember. It's made of like

641
01:08:45,920 --> 01:08:52,800
sharp cartilage and bovine oil, like from a pig. It's a it's an interesting concoction.

642
01:08:52,800 --> 01:09:02,480
And they wrapped my head and face in that and then got the new skin grafts of which were my own,

643
01:09:03,040 --> 01:09:07,520
because you can't even though the tissue recipient that doesn't last. You can not.

644
01:09:07,520 --> 01:09:16,480
Your body will not accept another human being skin. So they used it just temporarily to get me through

645
01:09:17,040 --> 01:09:21,360
some life saving measures. But then when it was time to do my own skin grafts, they really put it

646
01:09:21,360 --> 01:09:30,560
on top of this Integra and cover my head and face and get me the protection again that I needed and

647
01:09:30,560 --> 01:09:37,360
that I still live with today. Right. Now you talk about no one survives fourth degree burns. It's

648
01:09:37,360 --> 01:09:42,000
that there's a list of things that you survive. So not only that, but the the lack of trauma to

649
01:09:42,000 --> 01:09:46,720
your airway. And then and then we keep forgetting the 115 mile an hour real rear end collision that

650
01:09:46,720 --> 01:09:53,280
you got as well. And it's just it's incredible that you had very little trauma from that versus

651
01:09:53,280 --> 01:09:58,960
just the fire itself. Yeah, pretty astounding to think that I was hit at 115 miles an hour and

652
01:09:58,960 --> 01:10:04,720
outside of the burns. I had two cracked roots in a mile percussion. That car doesn't catch on fire.

653
01:10:04,720 --> 01:10:12,160
I go home a few hours after the accident. Crazy. So I've had a few people that have been a burn

654
01:10:12,160 --> 01:10:17,440
injured people that have come through, you know, thrived. One of them, a friend of mine, Dustin

655
01:10:17,440 --> 01:10:22,480
Hawkins, was talking about his experience with de-braiding. And it was a heartbreaking thing

656
01:10:22,480 --> 01:10:27,040
because he basically said he would look at the clock. And let's say it was 10 minutes in and he'd

657
01:10:27,040 --> 01:10:34,080
look and he'd have one or two thoughts, either I'm 50 minutes, I've got 50 minutes of this, or in 50

658
01:10:34,080 --> 01:10:39,440
minutes, I've got to do exactly the same thing in 24 hours. So it was just an excruciating horrendous

659
01:10:39,440 --> 01:10:44,000
experience for him. How was the pain for you through your treatment?

660
01:10:44,000 --> 01:10:50,960
Well, I consider myself very lucky because I was unconscious. And like you, I know a lot of burn

661
01:10:50,960 --> 01:10:55,920
survivors, I have a lot of friends now who have gone through that and the de-breeding process,

662
01:10:55,920 --> 01:11:03,040
the scrubbing, the infections that I mentioned are what can be life threatening. They have to keep

663
01:11:03,040 --> 01:11:10,240
those areas clean. And the pain, for what I understand, is absolutely devastating. Those

664
01:11:10,240 --> 01:11:19,760
first few months, I did not have to go through that because I wasn't awake. Now afterwards, yes,

665
01:11:19,760 --> 01:11:25,360
I experienced some pain that I don't think most people would be able to fully understand. And all

666
01:11:25,360 --> 01:11:31,360
these years later, I don't even, am not able to remember. I've forgotten more about pain than I

667
01:11:31,360 --> 01:11:36,400
remember going to truly know that I experienced. And that's part of the beauty of how our minds and

668
01:11:36,400 --> 01:11:42,800
our emotions work. But I was very blessed to be in that coma for the length of time that I was.

669
01:11:42,800 --> 01:11:48,080
Right. So, well then moving forward, so we got obviously all the physical side. So mentally, so

670
01:11:48,080 --> 01:11:55,040
there you were seemingly full of gratitude, full of kindness and compassion prior to the accident,

671
01:11:55,040 --> 01:11:59,680
whether it was your young years in the Air Force, as a law enforcement officer. So you were

672
01:11:59,680 --> 01:12:06,720
a law enforcement officer. So what was your self-talk as far as getting back on track after

673
01:12:06,720 --> 01:12:09,520
you acknowledged that this had happened, when you had time for it to actually sink in?

674
01:12:11,040 --> 01:12:13,920
Well, the self-talk at first, it was,

675
01:12:17,040 --> 01:12:22,640
I wouldn't say it was good. I didn't have anger. I didn't have

676
01:12:22,640 --> 01:12:31,760
regret. What I had was a tremendous amount of confusion, a tremendous amount of fear,

677
01:12:32,320 --> 01:12:38,640
a tremendous amount of claustrophobia from being blind. But then I also had

678
01:12:39,680 --> 01:12:44,880
the appreciation of, all right, no matter what people are telling me, and it's, I mean,

679
01:12:44,880 --> 01:12:50,640
between family, friends and my doctors, I'm not hearing anything good. But I still had

680
01:12:50,640 --> 01:13:00,560
the thankfulness that I was alive. I'm still here, I'm still alive. I don't know what the future

681
01:13:00,560 --> 01:13:07,760
holds, but I am not dead. And it quickly occurred to me also, you know, what did everybody else go

682
01:13:07,760 --> 01:13:12,240
through in those two and a half months? I cannot believe what I'm being told right now. I cannot

683
01:13:12,800 --> 01:13:18,800
believe I was asleep for that long. What are my kids thinking about this? What are my kids

684
01:13:18,800 --> 01:13:24,720
thinking about? Where is dad? Why is he not here? What my wife had gone through, what my parents

685
01:13:25,360 --> 01:13:29,520
and my friends had to witness. So that helped me a lot too, thinking,

686
01:13:32,880 --> 01:13:39,120
well, now that you've been told this news, now that you're awake, you're really not allowed to be

687
01:13:40,560 --> 01:13:44,640
so devastated by this, that you just tell everybody to

688
01:13:44,640 --> 01:13:49,920
go to hell and give up because they've been here for these two and a half months, and they've been

689
01:13:49,920 --> 01:13:54,800
fighting in their own right. So that helped me tremendously to at least

690
01:13:58,720 --> 01:14:05,280
lay somewhat of a groundwork to eventually get to where I'm going to build the bridge back to

691
01:14:05,280 --> 01:14:09,760
recover. Yeah, because I heard in one of the interviews, it became very clearly,

692
01:14:09,760 --> 01:14:13,840
you hear so many times, I had some people here that have literally had a pistol in their mouth

693
01:14:13,840 --> 01:14:22,000
before. And the common theme is the feeling of them being a burden to their family. And it seemed

694
01:14:22,000 --> 01:14:26,160
that what kind of pulled you out is the reverse that you realize, no, I'm the protector of my

695
01:14:26,160 --> 01:14:32,880
family. I've got a new son on the way. And you found that value and realized that no, no, no,

696
01:14:32,880 --> 01:14:38,400
that you could see clearly enough that you were not going to be able to do that.

697
01:14:38,400 --> 01:14:44,000
And you found that value and realized that no, no, no, that you could see clearly enough that

698
01:14:44,000 --> 01:14:50,320
you would make their life worse if you weren't there anymore versus what sadly so many of these

699
01:14:50,320 --> 01:14:56,080
men and women that do complete suicide misunderstand that they think they're leaving a burden from their

700
01:14:56,080 --> 01:15:04,320
family and actually adding one. Yeah. Well, suicide is kind of a horrible thing. And as I said,

701
01:15:04,320 --> 01:15:10,400
I had to do a lot of those next to get notifications and see the devastation to families,

702
01:15:10,400 --> 01:15:17,280
understand the reasons why people would do it. And thankfully, I've never been in those kind of dire

703
01:15:17,280 --> 01:15:24,640
straits. I had thoughts early on that it sure would have been easy to pass away. I didn't have

704
01:15:24,640 --> 01:15:30,160
the fear. I didn't have the pain. It would have been easy to just let it come to an end. But

705
01:15:30,160 --> 01:15:37,760
what I'm facing is not going to be easy. But these people did not give up on me. So I owed it to them

706
01:15:38,400 --> 01:15:44,960
to if you want to support me, if you want to love me, if you're going to be here for me, then

707
01:15:45,600 --> 01:15:54,640
I will join you. I will join you in this fight. And we will now do it together. I was not about

708
01:15:54,640 --> 01:16:01,440
I was not about to let them down in that regard. And then when you add the kids in, as you mentioned,

709
01:16:01,440 --> 01:16:08,960
we had a kid later, it was 18 months later. But that was a whole new perspective and responsibility.

710
01:16:08,960 --> 01:16:15,440
But my first two kids, my daughter and son, I mentioned you earlier about putting your name

711
01:16:15,440 --> 01:16:21,440
on the application. I know why I did that. I'm very proud of that. I have no regrets, the honor

712
01:16:21,440 --> 01:16:29,040
and humility with which I became a police officer did a tremendous amount for me mentally and

713
01:16:29,040 --> 01:16:34,480
emotionally recovering from this. But my kids did not sign up for this. They did not ask

714
01:16:35,120 --> 01:16:42,000
for their dad to go out and get hurt like this or to change their life the way I did. And so the

715
01:16:42,000 --> 01:16:49,520
overwhelming guilt that I felt as a father, because fatherhood to me is there's nothing like it is the

716
01:16:49,520 --> 01:16:57,360
number one most beautiful blessing in life for me. And I had a lot to deal with on that. But again,

717
01:16:57,360 --> 01:17:03,040
I'm not going to give up and I'm going to work toward getting them

718
01:17:05,520 --> 01:17:09,040
healed, getting them on the right path. And I am going to dedicate

719
01:17:11,440 --> 01:17:18,080
my life to making sure that they are better human beings because of the adversity that

720
01:17:18,080 --> 01:17:24,880
they went through. So I tried to look at it like my purpose for becoming a police officer was what

721
01:17:24,880 --> 01:17:30,960
it was. And now that my path has changed, I'm not going to let my purpose change. Now my purpose is

722
01:17:30,960 --> 01:17:41,600
to better my children or those around me. Let's learn from this. Let's get better for this. And

723
01:17:41,600 --> 01:17:47,440
I'll show them that I'll fight for them. Yeah, I interviewed my son for the last episode that I put

724
01:17:47,440 --> 01:17:53,840
out. It was kind of like a mishmash. And some things came out that broke my heart. And when we

725
01:17:53,840 --> 01:17:58,880
left him in there, I made sure he was okay with leaving him there. But he had some areas of

726
01:17:58,880 --> 01:18:02,720
depression when he was younger, he had some bullying, but then even just me being away and

727
01:18:02,720 --> 01:18:09,360
nothing bad, no near misses, no scares, nothing ever happened in my career so far. But like you

728
01:18:09,360 --> 01:18:15,040
said, they didn't sign up for that. And their mother or their father is gone for 12 or 24 hours.

729
01:18:15,040 --> 01:18:19,520
And he said the worst thing was not knowing if you're going to come home. Now for him, I did.

730
01:18:19,520 --> 01:18:25,840
So he was still blessed. But that trauma just for the everyday is there. But to have what happened

731
01:18:25,840 --> 01:18:32,000
to you, like you said, the knock on effect to your kids, I can see completely how concerned you must

732
01:18:32,000 --> 01:18:37,520
have been for them and your wife as well. Once you were able to get past your own initial injury,

733
01:18:37,520 --> 01:18:44,800
able to get past your own initial injuries. Yes, it that was always the hardest part. I've often

734
01:18:44,800 --> 01:18:50,080
said it's easier to go through something than to watch somebody who loved go through it. So

735
01:18:51,120 --> 01:18:58,560
regardless of what I may look like, or what people may think about my surgeries and pain and my eyesight

736
01:18:58,560 --> 01:19:04,320
and all the stuff I've gone through, without a doubt, my family and my friends, my closest friends,

737
01:19:04,320 --> 01:19:10,240
I genuinely believe that they had it tougher than I did. And they had a lot to overcome.

738
01:19:10,720 --> 01:19:20,240
And I can look at, I can rattle off 12 names right now that are all better people and living

739
01:19:20,240 --> 01:19:26,720
better lives because of what they went through with me, not because of what happened to me,

740
01:19:26,720 --> 01:19:33,920
but they were part of the process of the team. And it had a positive impact on them. Now,

741
01:19:33,920 --> 01:19:40,080
now, obviously, not at the time, but now it has. Yeah. Well, you made a very, really profound

742
01:19:40,080 --> 01:19:46,160
statement in one of the interviews I listened to as well. And it's so pertinent with your story,

743
01:19:46,160 --> 01:19:53,200
but also with fitness, with anything that people are passionate about, is you said that you're out

744
01:19:53,200 --> 01:19:59,040
there speaking, you're inspiring people. But you were also talking about just because you went

745
01:19:59,040 --> 01:20:04,960
through this specific thing, which is pretty severe, pretty intense compared to 95% of things

746
01:20:04,960 --> 01:20:11,280
that happen to people, that doesn't discredit or belittle someone else's trauma. So would you

747
01:20:11,280 --> 01:20:14,000
expand on that? Because I thought that was such a beautiful way of looking at it.

748
01:20:16,240 --> 01:20:24,720
Yeah. And again, this is things that I've had to learn over the years, a lot of it through my

749
01:20:24,720 --> 01:20:31,040
public speaking, where I'd have people come up and say, in the early days, I've been a professional

750
01:20:31,040 --> 01:20:40,160
public speaker now for about nine years. And in the early days, I think both it came natural for

751
01:20:40,160 --> 01:20:48,320
people as well as they thought it was a compliment to say, you made my problems seem small. You made

752
01:20:48,320 --> 01:20:56,800
me not worry about the little things of what I'm going through. And I just always thought that is

753
01:20:56,800 --> 01:21:02,720
the wrong way to look at it. And the best way to explain this, and hopefully your listeners will

754
01:21:02,720 --> 01:21:13,200
not take this as callous as it might sound, but there's an old saying, I once saw a man, or I

755
01:21:13,200 --> 01:21:18,880
complained that I had no shoes till I saw a man with no feet. You ever heard that?

756
01:21:18,880 --> 01:21:24,160
I've posted a meme, that's a horrible description. I posted an inspiring quote with a picture of,

757
01:21:24,160 --> 01:21:28,880
it was one of our military generals that lost both his legs. So yeah, I know it well.

758
01:21:28,880 --> 01:21:38,720
Okay. So when I see that, what I think of is, you know, perspective is wonderful. It completely

759
01:21:38,720 --> 01:21:46,560
shapes our focus on how we live our lives. Gratitude is great and compassion is great.

760
01:21:46,560 --> 01:21:53,360
However, let's break that down to the reality of it. If I am sitting here with no shoes,

761
01:21:53,920 --> 01:22:00,320
and I see a man with no feet, while I will be grateful and while I will feel compassion

762
01:22:00,320 --> 01:22:07,520
toward that person, it does not take away the fact that my adversity is I don't have any shoes.

763
01:22:07,520 --> 01:22:12,400
So because I see a man with no feet, does that mean that I'm supposed to walk around barefoot

764
01:22:12,400 --> 01:22:18,720
on broken glass and hot asphalt and just say, oh, well, I have no problems because this other guy

765
01:22:18,720 --> 01:22:25,040
has no feet. I think that's, as human beings, we tend to look at things like that and

766
01:22:27,360 --> 01:22:37,120
adversity will come in all forms. And you cannot compare your adversity to somebody else's,

767
01:22:37,120 --> 01:22:41,520
the comparison is the thief of joy. Somebody's got a bigger house. Somebody's got a better job.

768
01:22:41,520 --> 01:22:46,400
Somebody makes more money. Their marriage is better. Whatever you want to say. Well,

769
01:22:46,400 --> 01:22:52,080
the same thing goes for adversity. Whatever you are going through today, and I know you're

770
01:22:52,080 --> 01:22:56,560
going through something. I know every one of your listeners is going through something. To look at

771
01:22:56,560 --> 01:23:11,040
somebody else like me and compare yours and then put it on like a scale or to minimize, diminish

772
01:23:11,040 --> 01:23:18,080
or insult what you're going through. You're holding yourself back. How are you going to overcome

773
01:23:18,080 --> 01:23:22,320
what you're going through? If you're worried about you don't get to live my life, you don't get to

774
01:23:22,320 --> 01:23:29,520
have my appearance and my eyesight and the things that I go through day to day. You have to live

775
01:23:29,520 --> 01:23:36,080
your life and you embrace your adversity the best you can with the understanding and the respect

776
01:23:36,080 --> 01:23:43,600
that there's a whole lot more coming your way. Adversity is constantly forming new ways to come

777
01:23:43,600 --> 01:23:49,120
at you. We all have stories. We all go through stuff. And so I like to encourage people to,

778
01:23:49,120 --> 01:23:54,240
as you're going through my journey, my story, stay in your, what are you facing right now?

779
01:23:54,240 --> 01:23:57,840
What are you going to think about when you lay your head down the pillow tonight and you're

780
01:23:57,840 --> 01:24:03,120
alone with your thoughts? What are your demons? What are your challenges? What do you need to

781
01:24:03,120 --> 01:24:10,240
overcome? Don't worry about somebody else. Worry about yourself and that's how you overcome.

782
01:24:10,240 --> 01:24:15,680
Absolutely. And what I got from yours is like you said, it's just the perspective. You should be in

783
01:24:15,680 --> 01:24:23,440
all of the story, but pull from it not, oh, my troubles are worse, but the opposite. If Jason

784
01:24:23,440 --> 01:24:29,840
had the human spirit to find his way out of that, therefore so can I. And mine might be,

785
01:24:29,840 --> 01:24:33,840
you know, like you said, a divorce or something that really down the road is,

786
01:24:34,880 --> 01:24:38,080
you're going to be back to who you were, maybe even a little bit more resilient, but there's no

787
01:24:38,880 --> 01:24:44,800
trauma to the human side. There might be some fragmenting of your family, but whatever it is

788
01:24:44,800 --> 01:24:49,360
at that moment, I've been through a divorce myself. That was my darkest time and it sucked.

789
01:24:50,640 --> 01:24:54,480
But seeing people that have been through, that are happy, that are remarried,

790
01:24:55,600 --> 01:25:01,280
it's not an apples to apples like you said, but these stories should inspire you that no matter

791
01:25:01,280 --> 01:25:06,320
what you can see your way out of, like you said, your specific journey, your specific road,

792
01:25:06,320 --> 01:25:13,280
but use these other stories as encouragement that no matter how dark the situation,

793
01:25:13,280 --> 01:25:22,480
you can find your way out. You certainly can. Your human spirit is designed for that. It is designed

794
01:25:22,480 --> 01:25:35,040
to lead you toward reward. It is designed to fight for you. You have to just simply be open to it and

795
01:25:35,040 --> 01:25:43,440
let it fight for you and go along on the journey. Don't hold it back. That's exactly what I want

796
01:25:43,440 --> 01:25:50,160
people to get out of it is not, well, Jason overcame ferns or I'm glad I don't look like Jason.

797
01:25:50,160 --> 01:25:57,840
I'm glad I didn't go through that. It's, hey, he can overcome that. He's just Jason.

798
01:25:57,840 --> 01:26:03,280
That guy was born in West Phoenix, raised on some horse property and he's just as full of crap as

799
01:26:03,280 --> 01:26:08,480
anybody else in the world. And I put my pants on one leg at a time like everybody else. And I go

800
01:26:08,480 --> 01:26:11,760
through the same struggles. I've been married for a long time. We had the same fights and

801
01:26:12,480 --> 01:26:16,720
stuff that all married people do. I'm trying to raise my kids the best way I can. I'm trying to

802
01:26:16,720 --> 01:26:22,320
make money for my family. I'm trying to take care of my own health. I tend to my own garden. And

803
01:26:23,760 --> 01:26:29,680
if each person would do that, I think they'd be shocked at what they can

804
01:26:29,680 --> 01:26:35,840
overcome because you're going to face things. You're just, and I don't, I have a meeting to go

805
01:26:35,840 --> 01:26:41,040
to after we talk. And if I get out there and my tire goes flat and I'm going to be late to that

806
01:26:41,040 --> 01:26:48,320
meeting, I don't go, Oh, well, it could be worse. I caught on fire once. No, I am angry. I'm angry.

807
01:26:48,320 --> 01:26:53,200
I'm stressed. I'm like, I had to get my tire fixed and I got a call somebody and say, I'm going to

808
01:26:53,200 --> 01:27:00,160
be late. I got to apologize. It's adversity. It just is what it is. There are no scales, in my

809
01:27:00,160 --> 01:27:08,160
opinion, to this adversity. It's what's right in front of you. What do you need to overcome now?

810
01:27:08,800 --> 01:27:14,960
And then let's get ready for the next one because that's constantly what's coming in life. To live

811
01:27:14,960 --> 01:27:22,800
is to be hurt and to feel pain and to suffer and to put all those adjectives that you put in your

812
01:27:22,800 --> 01:27:27,120
life. And you're not going to be able to do the things that you want to do. But it's really not.

813
01:27:27,600 --> 01:27:32,400
It's just life happening to you. No good days, no bad days, just life.

814
01:27:33,840 --> 01:27:38,240
So then I want to talk about the next chapter, which I mean, I don't want to delve too much

815
01:27:38,240 --> 01:27:42,480
into the journey. I'm sure it was just horrendous. And that's something that you tell well in the

816
01:27:42,480 --> 01:27:50,320
book, but what another inspiring thing about your spirit is that desire to go back to law

817
01:27:50,320 --> 01:27:55,600
to lead us through that road, like how you mentally got there and then physically when

818
01:27:55,600 --> 01:27:59,680
you found that you were able to fill that position again, it's incredible.

819
01:28:00,400 --> 01:28:04,880
Well, I think a little bit of it's similar to like when you talk to Jay Dobbins. I mean,

820
01:28:04,880 --> 01:28:13,360
that guy was shot through the lung four days into his job and almost died. He could have taken a

821
01:28:13,360 --> 01:28:20,880
medical retirement. He could have taken the attitude of, you know, I'm lucky and I survived.

822
01:28:20,880 --> 01:28:28,160
I probably shouldn't tip, fade again. But law enforcement, at least, you know, for me and I

823
01:28:28,160 --> 01:28:34,400
think for a majority, it's a calling. I became a cop because Mark Axel was killed and I'm going to

824
01:28:34,400 --> 01:28:40,240
honor him. I was not killed in the line of duty and I'm going to go back to work, not because I

825
01:28:40,240 --> 01:28:46,080
need a paycheck, not because I need something to do for 40 hours. I am a police officer 24 hours a

826
01:28:46,080 --> 01:28:50,960
day. It's who I am. And I had several doctors and again, several friends like Jason get, you know,

827
01:28:50,960 --> 01:28:55,520
you got to get really, you're not, you're not going back to work. And this is at a time when I'm

828
01:28:56,640 --> 01:29:02,480
completely blind. I've lost half my fingers. I'm laying flat on my back. I weigh 120 pounds,

829
01:29:02,480 --> 01:29:07,040
frail and sick. And I'm saying I'm going to go back to work. And I can imagine people were like,

830
01:29:07,040 --> 01:29:16,880
are you crazy? No, you're not. So I was never deterred from that from, that was never even a

831
01:29:16,880 --> 01:29:22,640
thought when I woke up from my coma. It was not, of all the things that I was thinking about,

832
01:29:22,640 --> 01:29:28,480
how am I going to learn to use my hands again? How am I going to get some of my eyesight back?

833
01:29:28,480 --> 01:29:35,920
It was never a, well, not going back to work or can I, what if it was, I am going back to work.

834
01:29:35,920 --> 01:29:43,680
I just don't know when. And so that was a big part of my, my mission was to recover well enough

835
01:29:43,680 --> 01:29:51,040
to return to some form of law enforcement. And I had no idea what I'd be able to accomplish. I was

836
01:29:51,040 --> 01:29:56,800
lucky enough to return to work after 18 months, started out as a, as a police officer,

837
01:29:56,800 --> 01:30:02,160
started out as a public information officer, behind a desk, dealing with the media,

838
01:30:02,880 --> 01:30:09,280
still going through therapy and surgeries and whatever else. And then I was given the

839
01:30:09,280 --> 01:30:13,520
beautiful opportunity to join the Things Police Homicide Unit, go through a lot of training

840
01:30:14,400 --> 01:30:21,280
and work my way up to where I was doing a job that I was very proud to be doing, very honorable.

841
01:30:21,280 --> 01:30:26,400
There's nothing quite like being a homicide detective. The responsibilities that you have

842
01:30:26,400 --> 01:30:31,760
and working with families that are affected by that kind of violence, speaking for victims that

843
01:30:31,760 --> 01:30:38,240
can't speak for themselves, the things that you see and are a part of, it's, it's not for everybody.

844
01:30:38,240 --> 01:30:43,360
I mean, it's, it's, a lot of people don't want to be around violent death or that kind of sadness

845
01:30:43,360 --> 01:30:49,760
and tragedy. A lot of people aren't going to want to sit and watch an autopsy. It's, but for me,

846
01:30:49,760 --> 01:30:56,560
it was something that meant a great, great deal to me. So to achieve that,

847
01:30:58,160 --> 01:31:03,280
went along my way in my recovery process, but there was never a doubt from the day I woke up

848
01:31:03,280 --> 01:31:12,240
that I wasn't going to, in some capacity, return to my career. That was my job. That's my career.

849
01:31:12,240 --> 01:31:18,800
That's who I am. That doesn't get taken away just because a few people say it's going to.

850
01:31:18,800 --> 01:31:24,400
That's my choice. And so that's what I did. Yeah. It's amazing. But you see this in so many,

851
01:31:25,200 --> 01:31:32,720
so many people. I've had a guy who's a firefighter, Trevor Xiztas, who had a heart transplant and then

852
01:31:32,720 --> 01:31:39,280
became a firefighter. I had Mark Ormrod, who was a Royal Marine, who got blown up, lost both legs

853
01:31:39,280 --> 01:31:46,720
and one arm. And he competes to the Invictus games and he does Jiu-Jitsu. And so that, the adaptive

854
01:31:46,720 --> 01:31:51,360
community, that's the word I'm looking for, the CrossFit world and some of these other areas.

855
01:31:52,160 --> 01:31:55,200
Just working out, like you were saying, with a bowling ball. Let's say that you couldn't ever

856
01:31:55,200 --> 01:31:58,240
get your fingers the way they were in a bowling ball, then just design a bowling ball that you

857
01:31:58,240 --> 01:32:03,920
can. You know what I mean? So just engineering around what people can do instead of focusing

858
01:32:03,920 --> 01:32:09,360
on what they can't. Exactly. I got my golf game back down to better than I was before the accident

859
01:32:09,360 --> 01:32:15,200
with hands that are completely disfigured and deformed. I've only got five fingers total on

860
01:32:15,200 --> 01:32:21,920
both hands. They are completely misshapen. I retrofitted golf clubs. I started working at it

861
01:32:21,920 --> 01:32:26,560
again. I worked with doctors on how to shoot a gun again. And with these hands and this eyesight,

862
01:32:26,560 --> 01:32:32,800
I was loading and unloading my gun. I was shooting and hit the target every time. I mean, you can.

863
01:32:33,760 --> 01:32:40,640
There's nothing as powerful as a made-up mind. Nothing. Say you're going to do it, work toward

864
01:32:40,640 --> 01:32:48,880
doing it. And I can guarantee you're going to accomplish exactly what you set out to do.

865
01:32:49,920 --> 01:32:53,600
Absolutely. So what made you finally take the medical retirement?

866
01:32:55,680 --> 01:33:06,560
I worked in homicide. The hours you keep are not eight to four. You go in and you work your cases

867
01:33:06,560 --> 01:33:10,960
the way they need to be worked. And it was something that I loved doing. I had a very defining

868
01:33:10,960 --> 01:33:18,160
moment. Another defining moment of my career was in May of 2005. One of our police officers, May 10th,

869
01:33:18,160 --> 01:33:25,120
in fact, just had his 14th anniversary. An officer named David Duryberry was shot and killed on a

870
01:33:25,120 --> 01:33:33,440
traffic stop. And my squad was on call. And we worked for 53 straight hours to apprehend the two

871
01:33:33,440 --> 01:33:39,840
suspects involved. Probably the proudest week of my career. One of the driver got 27 years, the

872
01:33:40,480 --> 01:33:45,920
18-year-old passenger who shot and killed our officer got the death penalty. But it took its

873
01:33:46,480 --> 01:33:53,920
toll on all of us working those kind of hours. And for me, with my eyesight, it was very detrimental.

874
01:33:53,920 --> 01:33:57,040
And that was kind of when I realized, all right, you're not going to be able to do

875
01:33:58,240 --> 01:34:01,760
the job the way you wanted to. And even though I could shoot my gun again,

876
01:34:01,760 --> 01:34:07,360
I could not qualify with it because the time requirements, which are incredibly important,

877
01:34:07,920 --> 01:34:13,520
were not something I was able to achieve. So that kind of started my thought process of,

878
01:34:14,320 --> 01:34:18,960
maybe it's time. And so in August of 2006, five and a half years after my accident,

879
01:34:19,520 --> 01:34:27,120
I did decide to retire from law enforcement. And again, not a decision that I regret at all.

880
01:34:27,120 --> 01:34:32,560
I went a long way in my health and better taking care of myself and I wouldn't trade places with

881
01:34:32,560 --> 01:34:38,800
who I am and what I'm doing. Yeah. I think it's a great decision. I had a gentleman, Drew Stokes,

882
01:34:38,800 --> 01:34:44,480
who was shot actually just going to Publix and getting some food for some refugees that they

883
01:34:44,480 --> 01:34:50,080
brought back from Puerto Rico. I think it was during one of the storms. And some just lunatic

884
01:34:50,080 --> 01:34:55,760
kid decided he wanted to kill a cop that day, shot Drew five times. He died on the operating

885
01:34:55,760 --> 01:35:03,520
theater. Just kind of like you really, a very passionate doctor refused to call it basically,

886
01:35:03,520 --> 01:35:08,640
and they actually got him back in the end. But he returned to duty. And the same kind of thing is

887
01:35:08,640 --> 01:35:14,720
people don't realize the effect that this job has on the healthy human body, the undamaged human

888
01:35:14,720 --> 01:35:20,000
body. So when you then got trauma and you need that rest, you need that recovery, you need that

889
01:35:20,000 --> 01:35:25,120
sleep, there's definitely that kind of critical point where I think a lot of people realize,

890
01:35:25,120 --> 01:35:31,360
okay, even though my drive and passion is there, the self care element has to take over. Right.

891
01:35:33,760 --> 01:35:36,880
Right. Well, speaking of the accidents, I want to touch on this because it's a very,

892
01:35:36,880 --> 01:35:42,880
you know, obviously important part of the story too. So the actual injuries that occurred to you

893
01:35:42,880 --> 01:35:47,360
were from the fire. And as you said, there was a history of this happening over and over again,

894
01:35:47,360 --> 01:35:53,200
with the same vehicle that appeared to have not being addressed by the manufacturer of Ford.

895
01:35:53,200 --> 01:35:59,280
So kind of like Jay with ATF, you ended up taking on that giant. So if you want to just

896
01:35:59,280 --> 01:36:02,000
kind of tell us about that and the success that you guys had.

897
01:36:02,960 --> 01:36:12,320
Yeah, that was another big part of my motivation in accepting what had happened to me, who I was

898
01:36:12,320 --> 01:36:18,480
and a new purpose in life. I had two angles to this. First was the taxi industry here in Arizona

899
01:36:18,480 --> 01:36:23,920
was just a disaster back then. You could spray paint your cell phone number on the side of your

900
01:36:23,920 --> 01:36:29,680
car and call yourself a taxi, which was ridiculous. And I don't like to get into the politics of

901
01:36:30,800 --> 01:36:36,000
things, but the guy who should not have been here should not have been driving and certainly

902
01:36:36,000 --> 01:36:41,520
should not have had a taxi company. So worked on getting that regulated, was very successful,

903
01:36:41,520 --> 01:36:46,720
and it's a much better situation here in the valley where I live. But on the Ford Crown

904
01:36:46,720 --> 01:36:52,720
Victoria side, we were kind of ground zero here in Arizona. In the span of four years, we lost two

905
01:36:53,760 --> 01:37:00,400
state troopers. One crew, Skip Fink, in 98 and 2000 had my accident. And then a year later,

906
01:37:00,960 --> 01:37:08,080
in 2002, Officer Rob Nielsen from Chandler, all farmed to death. At the time of my accident,

907
01:37:08,080 --> 01:37:14,320
I think 12 officers currently offers a 33. And again, I'm the one who gets a fire truck

908
01:37:14,320 --> 01:37:21,200
in an intersection. And we can sit and speculate all day as to why and God's plan and whatever you

909
01:37:21,200 --> 01:37:28,160
want to, however you choose to believe and live your life. These are unanswerable questions. The

910
01:37:28,160 --> 01:37:34,880
fact is, I got a fire truck in my intersection, and I got to go home to my family and nobody

911
01:37:34,880 --> 01:37:40,160
is going to tell me that those other individuals did not deserve that same opportunity. So I went

912
01:37:40,160 --> 01:37:49,040
to work on being an advocate and trying to get the safety of these cars worked on. And I had a great

913
01:37:49,040 --> 01:37:55,280
lawyer who worked on a lot of these cases and testified in a lot of different places, testified

914
01:37:55,280 --> 01:38:00,880
in front of the New York State Senate after they lost the state trooper, of course had my own

915
01:38:00,880 --> 01:38:10,080
lawsuit and did take on Ford. We had a lot of companies step up and say, we're going to

916
01:38:10,080 --> 01:38:14,880
build things. If Ford doesn't want to help, we're going to build things to retrofit these cars with

917
01:38:14,880 --> 01:38:22,960
fuel bladders or fire suppression systems surrounding the gas tanks. And then fast forward,

918
01:38:22,960 --> 01:38:29,200
Ford put make the crowd make in 2011. The accidents are definitely decreasing. Eventually,

919
01:38:29,200 --> 01:38:37,440
those cars will be completely off of the road. So that is my advocacy for that. Not only selflessly,

920
01:38:37,440 --> 01:38:45,120
but a long way in my recovery process because he gave me a purpose. It gave me a mission in life.

921
01:38:45,120 --> 01:38:51,680
But all these years later, I'm very proud that I didn't just go and hide. I didn't just hide my

922
01:38:53,040 --> 01:39:00,800
burned and disfigured face. I'm trying to honor the people who did not get a fire truck in their

923
01:39:00,800 --> 01:39:05,120
intersection. So that was something that's very special and very important to me.

924
01:39:05,120 --> 01:39:09,040
Yeah. Well, like you said with the homicide, you're speaking for the dead, you're honoring

925
01:39:09,040 --> 01:39:13,120
all those people. And that's the worst thing we can do is lose someone and not do something about

926
01:39:13,120 --> 01:39:19,200
it. Not stop it from happening again. Yeah, not something about it. If somebody has already

927
01:39:19,200 --> 01:39:26,960
sacrificed, let it not be named. Please, just make something out of it. It's already happened. I

928
01:39:26,960 --> 01:39:31,360
can't change that. I can't bring those people back. And I can't put a fire truck in the intersection,

929
01:39:31,360 --> 01:39:37,680
but I can damn sure honor their legacy and their names and talk about them. Because when you see

930
01:39:37,680 --> 01:39:43,120
my face, it's kind of unforgettable. It's easy to talk about somebody who's dead because they're

931
01:39:43,120 --> 01:39:47,360
not here. They're just, they're in a plot somewhere with a gravestone and their family is long

932
01:39:47,920 --> 01:39:53,200
forgotten. You're not going to forget. When I talk about them and you're staring at my face,

933
01:39:53,200 --> 01:39:56,640
then you know what they went through and you know that they weren't as lucky as me. So

934
01:39:56,640 --> 01:40:01,520
I'd love to honor those guys. Yeah. And I think that's the same even with the non-traumatic side.

935
01:40:01,520 --> 01:40:07,520
Just what I'm seeing in fire specifically is cancer, heart disease, suicide. And we're saying

936
01:40:07,520 --> 01:40:13,280
the same in law enforcement. Those people are dying in lion engraves too. And how many of those

937
01:40:13,280 --> 01:40:18,160
are preventable just because of the working hours and the organizational stress and some of these

938
01:40:18,160 --> 01:40:22,400
other areas that really feed into the ill health of the men and women we work alongside.

939
01:40:22,400 --> 01:40:27,920
Yeah, I think that's exactly right. Right. Well, speaking of ill health, you mentioned that you

940
01:40:27,920 --> 01:40:34,640
lost your father and I saw that you coupled with Serenity Hospice. I had an amazing man, Dr. BJ

941
01:40:34,640 --> 01:40:42,880
Miller, who was a triple amputee. He'd actually as a student stood on top of a like a tram car in

942
01:40:42,880 --> 01:40:49,200
San Francisco and not trying to do anything crazy, but actually arced through his wristwatch and he

943
01:40:49,200 --> 01:40:57,040
lost two legs and one of his arms. And he became a hospice and palliative care doctor. And that's an

944
01:40:57,040 --> 01:41:06,720
area that we don't talk about very much. So what was your experience with hospice and what do you

945
01:41:06,720 --> 01:41:12,720
want to tell the world about that area? Because it really doesn't get much positive airtime.

946
01:41:12,720 --> 01:41:19,120
No, it doesn't. Hospice is a word that people don't like to use. And in fact, that's the

947
01:41:19,120 --> 01:41:24,240
meeting I'm going to next. I do work for Serenity Hospice here in Arizona. I'm going to give a talk

948
01:41:24,240 --> 01:41:34,080
to some folks at a care facility. And I, again, like I mentioned earlier, spent my life pretty

949
01:41:34,080 --> 01:41:39,120
lucky. I didn't experience death in my family. My dad got diagnosed with a very

950
01:41:39,120 --> 01:41:45,280
aggressive, devastating form of cancer and entered into the hospice process.

951
01:41:46,160 --> 01:41:56,400
And I got to learn about it. And it was truly, wow, just the most beautiful experience that I had

952
01:41:56,400 --> 01:42:08,480
ever known to be a son, only to be grateful to see him with peace and comfort in what hospice did for

953
01:42:08,480 --> 01:42:14,960
me and my family. There should not be this bad stigma around hospice. It's not about going to

954
01:42:14,960 --> 01:42:21,760
the vet and being put to sleep like an animal. It is truly about comfort and care and compassion.

955
01:42:21,760 --> 01:42:26,880
And so now I love to share my story and what I got out of it, because even though I lost my dad,

956
01:42:26,880 --> 01:42:34,720
I was grateful that I had him for as long as I did in my late 40s. And I hope that we're all

957
01:42:34,720 --> 01:42:42,080
lucky enough to get to that point and make those decisions. And I know that he was proud to not

958
01:42:42,080 --> 01:42:50,240
let us suffer any more than we needed to. He was not suffering. And I'm just a big believer in

959
01:42:50,240 --> 01:42:55,200
hospice. I think everybody should learn about it. And if you are lucky enough to make those choices,

960
01:42:55,200 --> 01:43:05,840
you should really educate yourself on it, because we're all headed to the same place, right? We are

961
01:43:05,840 --> 01:43:13,040
certainly all going to die. That's just the permanent fact of part of living this life. So

962
01:43:13,920 --> 01:43:21,120
love hospice. And I would say what I hope is my third and final calling. I had the

963
01:43:22,160 --> 01:43:26,800
becoming a police officer. I had why I became a public speaker. And now I have what I'm doing with

964
01:43:26,800 --> 01:43:35,760
hospice. And I think my meter of hope is going to be in the future. And I think that's going to be

965
01:43:35,760 --> 01:43:41,600
run as full on on callings. I'm good. Yeah, I was like you were talking earlier before we start

966
01:43:41,600 --> 01:43:45,520
recording with the nonprofit. I mean, you've got to focus on the areas you're going to make

967
01:43:45,520 --> 01:43:49,680
the biggest difference. And sometimes it seems like you're really going to be able to drive

968
01:43:49,680 --> 01:43:53,600
something forward. And you realize, well, actually, it's more efficient just to do it another way. And

969
01:43:53,600 --> 01:43:59,360
that takes me to the podcast. So I find the podcast such a great medium. And people have said to me,

970
01:43:59,360 --> 01:44:03,440
Oh, have you ever thought about speaking? I'm firstly, no, because I invite all these great

971
01:44:03,440 --> 01:44:09,920
people on my show. I don't pretend that I'm I'm a great mind. But secondly, you know, it gets

972
01:44:09,920 --> 01:44:15,360
downloaded thousands of times. Imagine trying to fill a hole with that many people. So this is such

973
01:44:15,360 --> 01:44:22,320
a great efficient medium to get amazing men and women's stories out there. Right? Yeah, it's

974
01:44:22,320 --> 01:44:28,880
beautiful. I love I mean, mine's on a much finer, more minor scale, but I'm just trying to change

975
01:44:28,880 --> 01:44:34,160
the dialogue. It's called badge boys. And the positiveness of law enforcement tell a lot of

976
01:44:34,160 --> 01:44:39,120
great stories. I'm very new into it. But I just love it. And I thank you for what you're doing.

977
01:44:39,120 --> 01:44:42,960
You have some incredible guests. I love following you on social media. I love how you

978
01:44:43,760 --> 01:44:48,400
highlight your family. I love your, your vulnerability and your humility. And I think

979
01:44:49,440 --> 01:44:52,800
I think you're going to make a lot of great impact on this world. So I hope you don't let

980
01:44:52,800 --> 01:44:57,200
anything deter you from the direction you're headed right now. That's all a facade. I'm really

981
01:44:57,200 --> 01:45:02,000
an asshole. Is your wife listening right now? Is that what you're saying?

982
01:45:04,560 --> 01:45:08,160
So well, speaking of great stories, I want to make sure we mentioned before because my closing

983
01:45:08,160 --> 01:45:12,800
questions ask about other people's books, but Burning Shield, an incredibly well written book,

984
01:45:12,800 --> 01:45:17,360
I mean, your story is powerful, but the way that he brings in all the other stories to kind of,

985
01:45:18,000 --> 01:45:23,200
you know, literally collide at the same time. And then you know, obviously the ripple effect

986
01:45:23,200 --> 01:45:28,320
of after so tell me, you know, what, what made you decide to finally put your story on paper or get

987
01:45:28,320 --> 01:45:31,920
someone to put it on paper and then the effect that the book has had since you wrote it?

988
01:45:32,640 --> 01:45:38,640
Well, I definitely not something I decided I never would have even dreamt of having my story in a

989
01:45:38,640 --> 01:45:44,720
book, but I was approached a long time ago by a guy that I'm dear friends with, who's an excellent

990
01:45:44,720 --> 01:45:50,560
writer. And he started to write my book, and then got a job offer that he couldn't refuse. And of

991
01:45:50,560 --> 01:45:57,120
course, I don't at all disrespect anybody for veteran themselves. And so he let the project go,

992
01:45:57,120 --> 01:46:02,880
I had somebody else do it and it turned out to be just terrible. I could have never put it out there.

993
01:46:02,880 --> 01:46:10,880
And another year, a few years go by and I'm introduced to Landon Napoleon. And he is just

994
01:46:10,880 --> 01:46:17,840
an amazing writer, amazing individual. And what I love is that he took the time knowing that I

995
01:46:17,840 --> 01:46:23,040
didn't have the full understanding and perspective of what took place. I was asleep for the actual

996
01:46:23,040 --> 01:46:28,800
accident. I was in a coma for so long. He took the time to go and interview everybody and get their

997
01:46:28,800 --> 01:46:39,360
exact versions and perspectives and stories and understand the that to tell this story, you got

998
01:46:39,360 --> 01:46:45,760
to capture all the voices and he did that. And I'm so proud of this book. I love it. It's been out

999
01:46:45,760 --> 01:46:53,600
since 2014. It'll be a legacy for my kids, something I'm very, very proud of. And while I'm

1000
01:46:53,600 --> 01:46:59,520
still very humbled every time I see the cover of it or I autograph one for somebody, I kind of giggle

1001
01:46:59,520 --> 01:47:04,960
thinking, are you kidding me? You're facing a story or a book, but I am very, very proud.

1002
01:47:05,520 --> 01:47:10,080
Yeah. Well, it kind of made me think when I think again, one of the other interviews I was listening

1003
01:47:10,080 --> 01:47:16,880
to, but people gravitate towards this, you know, Eagle Rise and all the men and women that you

1004
01:47:16,880 --> 01:47:23,120
speak with. I think the reason for the success is people truly want to hear that because our,

1005
01:47:23,120 --> 01:47:29,840
and I'm doing air quotes now, leaders that we have in the world are basically far from that,

1006
01:47:29,840 --> 01:47:35,280
most of them, as we all know. So people like you and all the other people that had on the show and,

1007
01:47:35,280 --> 01:47:40,240
you know, the great people that you see on the positive social media channels, you know, they,

1008
01:47:41,040 --> 01:47:45,840
people draw, that's why they go viral because people want to be inspired and they want to be

1009
01:47:45,840 --> 01:47:51,120
led or, you know, led is the wrong word, but inspired by people who have walked the walk.

1010
01:47:51,120 --> 01:47:55,680
And I think that's what, you know, obviously your book is so important and Jay's book and all these

1011
01:47:55,680 --> 01:47:58,880
other people that have either, you know, made documentaries or books or whatever it is,

1012
01:47:59,600 --> 01:48:04,960
is it's a way for us to circumnavigate all the bullshit, all the white noise, all the politics,

1013
01:48:04,960 --> 01:48:11,200
all the red tape in our organizations and get to the source and tap into some true inspiration

1014
01:48:11,200 --> 01:48:14,960
and learn and cry and laugh. And then at the end of it,

1015
01:48:15,520 --> 01:48:19,280
walk out their front door and hopefully be inspired to be a better human themselves.

1016
01:48:20,400 --> 01:48:25,200
Could not agree more. That is perfectly well said. And I'm glad you got to know some of the

1017
01:48:25,200 --> 01:48:30,960
guys from Eagle Rise. They inspire me. I wear their shirts all the time. Jay Dobbins is a

1018
01:48:30,960 --> 01:48:36,400
very dear friend of mine. You've spoken to him. You understand his life. His books are just

1019
01:48:37,200 --> 01:48:43,680
crazy good. Jason Redman is I literally wear his shirts four out of seven days a week because I

1020
01:48:43,680 --> 01:48:50,000
just feel like a better person wearing his shirts, knowing what he's gone through. Tim Brown, who

1021
01:48:50,000 --> 01:48:58,080
survived the class of the South Tower and Josh Mott, some of these other guys, their stories.

1022
01:48:58,080 --> 01:49:02,480
That's what people need to hear. And you're right, our so-called leaders right now,

1023
01:49:03,040 --> 01:49:11,200
they haven't been through that and they don't truly believe in passing on the genuine

1024
01:49:14,800 --> 01:49:20,800
human spirit, the fight that is within all of us. And I hope that our stories continue to get bigger

1025
01:49:20,800 --> 01:49:25,760
and more widespread because that's what's going to improve this world and make it better for

1026
01:49:25,760 --> 01:49:32,160
our kids and our grandkids. Absolutely. Well, I've got Josh Mantz coming on early next month. I'm

1027
01:49:32,160 --> 01:49:36,320
connected with Jason. I'm hoping I'm going to be able to get him on as well. Oh, you're going to

1028
01:49:36,320 --> 01:49:42,400
love it. Let me tell you. Is Tim Brown a firefighter or is he a civilian? He is a civilian now,

1029
01:49:42,400 --> 01:49:47,600
but you're definitely, I don't want to talk to him that he's incredible. You can easily get him on

1030
01:49:47,600 --> 01:49:55,600
your podcast. He is very open about his story. He had a great career going and had a great

1031
01:49:55,600 --> 01:50:01,200
career. He had rose up to the ranks. He was working for Rudy Giuliani at the time in the building next

1032
01:50:01,200 --> 01:50:09,520
to the World Trade Centers in there in a shirt and tie. And of course, when the first crash hit,

1033
01:50:10,240 --> 01:50:14,560
just being a firefighter, he ran and grabbed his bumblebee. You know how those New Yorkers look,

1034
01:50:14,560 --> 01:50:21,360
their bumblebee outfit. And there's a short clip on YouTube you can find. It's about 70 seconds

1035
01:50:21,360 --> 01:50:27,040
that shows Tim walking into the tower. And the story, I don't want to give it away, but the

1036
01:50:27,040 --> 01:50:33,200
story that he tells from his point of view is truly remarkable. Talking about firefighters walking

1037
01:50:33,200 --> 01:50:38,160
out and simply saying, hey, it's the last time I'm going to see you. If you make it out, make

1038
01:50:38,160 --> 01:50:44,080
sure you tell my wife and kids I love them. And they just calmly went up the stairs. It's one of

1039
01:50:44,080 --> 01:50:49,680
the more moving things. And Tim is the one guy, I'm very inspired by Jay Dobbins, Jason Redmond,

1040
01:50:49,680 --> 01:50:56,080
good friends of mine. Tim Brown is the one guy when I am in the same room as him. I just can't

1041
01:50:56,080 --> 01:51:02,320
describe what it feels like. So do your best to get him on the show because his story and the way

1042
01:51:02,320 --> 01:51:08,320
he tells it, you are going to be a better person and your listeners will go absolutely crazy over

1043
01:51:08,320 --> 01:51:12,080
what he has to say. Beautiful. Well, one of my questions is always, is there a guess? We'll

1044
01:51:12,080 --> 01:51:17,200
consider that one answer then. Tim Brown, well, you've already had Jay, Tim Brown and Jason

1045
01:51:17,200 --> 01:51:27,280
Redmond. I mean, Jason Redmond's story is just remarkable. What he's doing now is phenomenal.

1046
01:51:27,920 --> 01:51:32,400
He's the leader of Eagle Rise and his wife created it. And you're definitely going to want to talk

1047
01:51:32,400 --> 01:51:37,840
to him too. But you're going to like Josh. Let me tell you his story. He's got and this I will not

1048
01:51:37,840 --> 01:51:43,920
give away. But to this day, of the hundreds of speakers I've heard, his opening line when he

1049
01:51:43,920 --> 01:51:51,040
walks on stage is the single best opening line I've ever heard. And it makes everybody sit up in

1050
01:51:51,040 --> 01:51:56,800
their chair thinking, I can't wait to hear the rest of what this guy has to say. So make sure you

1051
01:51:58,160 --> 01:52:01,360
find one of his speeches or have him tell you what it is because it will

1052
01:52:05,040 --> 01:52:08,640
probably make you speechless. I'm glad you got him on. I can't wait to hear that.

1053
01:52:08,640 --> 01:52:13,760
Brilliant. I can't wait either. So thank you so much for those. So question, we talked about your

1054
01:52:13,760 --> 01:52:17,840
book. Are there other books that you love to recommend to people? Can be what we've talked

1055
01:52:17,840 --> 01:52:23,360
about today or something completely different? No, it's what we've talked about today. I am very

1056
01:52:23,360 --> 01:52:34,000
moved by people who have gone through adversity and I love the military and stuff like that. So

1057
01:52:34,000 --> 01:52:41,200
Jay's books, firstly, I think Catching Hell, No Angels Wonderful, Catching Hell, you cannot put

1058
01:52:41,200 --> 01:52:50,480
it down. Jason Redman's book, The Trident and the new book that I just read, Can't Hurt Me by David

1059
01:52:50,480 --> 01:52:55,440
Goggins. That guy, do you know who he is? He's coming on. Just waiting for a date. But sometime

1060
01:52:55,440 --> 01:53:00,000
this year, he's coming on. They said that this is one of the few podcasts he's going to do,

1061
01:53:00,000 --> 01:53:07,600
which is awesome. Well, he is widely regarded as probably the most motivational person currently

1062
01:53:07,600 --> 01:53:12,720
in the United States. Just his attitude and the way he has grown things, the way he talks,

1063
01:53:12,720 --> 01:53:20,240
he will pull no punches. He will not be completely politically correct. He will not shy away from

1064
01:53:20,240 --> 01:53:24,080
giving you a few cuss words. You're going to love talking to him. But his book,

1065
01:53:24,080 --> 01:53:32,720
and only because it's very fresh in my mind, Can't Hurt Me, you can't not be a better person

1066
01:53:32,720 --> 01:53:35,840
after you read this book. So I would encourage your readers, especially now that you're going

1067
01:53:35,840 --> 01:53:40,560
to have him, make sure that you advertise the hell out of that and get them to read it because

1068
01:53:40,560 --> 01:53:45,440
it's the best. Oh, I will. I read it myself. Actually, I listened to the audiobook and the

1069
01:53:45,440 --> 01:53:52,400
guy did an incredible job, but I almost wish that David had read it because when he's talking,

1070
01:53:52,400 --> 01:53:57,200
like you said, he's so colorful in his language. Oh my god, he's great. I really wish he was the

1071
01:53:57,200 --> 01:54:01,280
one narrating it, but they do an excellent job. They find the next best thing. No question.

1072
01:54:01,280 --> 01:54:07,840
Exactly. All right. So the same question, but a movie and or a documentary that you love.

1073
01:54:07,840 --> 01:54:20,080
Wow. Well, my favorite movie ever I can tell you is Shawshank Redemption and has been for a

1074
01:54:21,440 --> 01:54:27,840
very long time. I just love everything about that movie. Tombstone. I like

1075
01:54:29,120 --> 01:54:37,120
movies that leave me with one-liners and filled with humor. Lone Survivor, my biggest favorite.

1076
01:54:37,120 --> 01:54:43,520
My biggest big Marcus Luttrell fan and his book did a lot for me when it first came out.

1077
01:54:44,800 --> 01:54:54,320
Documentaries. You know, the documentaries I watch will be more like about animals. I do like Deep

1078
01:54:54,320 --> 01:55:00,960
Undercover on Netflix. Jay Doven's three of his undercover operations are profiled on that and

1079
01:55:00,960 --> 01:55:06,320
I like to learn about and to watch what I'm a cop and I'm sitting here going, I couldn't have done

1080
01:55:06,320 --> 01:55:15,600
that. It's so crazy. So those are the kind of things that I'm more geared toward. And I spend

1081
01:55:15,600 --> 01:55:24,720
a lot of time though on YouTube just watching other motivational videos, motivational talks or

1082
01:55:24,720 --> 01:55:34,080
talks or listening to the music that brings me into whatever emotion I'm, whether I'm going to

1083
01:55:34,080 --> 01:55:38,080
do a speech, I have a certain playlist and a certain group of songs and I'll listen to right

1084
01:55:38,080 --> 01:55:45,440
before or if there's other days when I need to feel something else, music is kind of everything

1085
01:55:45,440 --> 01:55:51,920
to me. So that's about the best I could do for you on that. All right. When you say I need to

1086
01:55:51,920 --> 01:55:56,720
feel something else, do you ever use music to induce tears to get that out of your system?

1087
01:55:56,720 --> 01:56:06,320
Because I used to a lot. I do. I very much do. I think music can move our souls and our emotions

1088
01:56:06,320 --> 01:56:12,080
unlike anything else. I've always felt that way. I've always been an old soul. I grew up in the

1089
01:56:12,080 --> 01:56:18,960
80s with all the hair bands and the rock and maybe not the deepest of lyrics but anthems and things

1090
01:56:18,960 --> 01:56:23,920
that I could get into it. I'll still go back to some of those if I need to go back to those times.

1091
01:56:23,920 --> 01:56:31,040
I need that timestamp to be standing on again. But I'm an old school country guy. I still love

1092
01:56:31,040 --> 01:56:38,400
country music. And the way I look at music, sometimes you want to be in the pain. Sometimes

1093
01:56:38,400 --> 01:56:44,240
you need to be in the pain. And there are certain songs that can put you there. And if, yeah, if you

1094
01:56:44,240 --> 01:56:51,120
need to get some emotions out, whether it's anger, whether it's tears, whether it's a dark sadness

1095
01:56:51,120 --> 01:56:54,960
that maybe you don't want to just call your best friend or you're certainly not going to go tell

1096
01:56:54,960 --> 01:57:00,480
your kids, hey, I'm going to put this on you today. No, when you're alone, you put a certain song on,

1097
01:57:00,480 --> 01:57:07,920
you can get in that emotion. And I always find myself, that's what starts the healing process.

1098
01:57:07,920 --> 01:57:14,640
I'll get into there for three or four minutes, or four or five songs, 15 minutes, and then it

1099
01:57:14,640 --> 01:57:19,680
strongly improves my day. So I love how you put that because I very much agree with you on that.

1100
01:57:19,680 --> 01:57:23,760
Brilliant. And I've heard you mentioned about your love of dogs as well. I have a dog, it's funny,

1101
01:57:23,760 --> 01:57:28,560
it's a kind of irony that we used to have dogs in fire stations. They got rid of them. And now all

1102
01:57:28,560 --> 01:57:32,480
of a sudden people are really, oh, dogs are actually good for therapy. So maybe we should

1103
01:57:32,480 --> 01:57:38,720
have a dog in the fire station. But the same thing, do you use that as a tool is the wrong word,

1104
01:57:38,720 --> 01:57:42,560
but do you find the therapeutic effect of having dogs around as well?

1105
01:57:43,360 --> 01:57:48,480
More than you can imagine. I grew up always wanting a golden retriever, never got one as a kid.

1106
01:57:49,200 --> 01:57:54,800
And my wife bought one while I was in the hospital. Once it was known that I was going to come home,

1107
01:57:54,800 --> 01:57:59,520
turned out that he was born on the day of my accident. Again, irony all over the place.

1108
01:57:59,520 --> 01:58:08,160
And I had him for 14 and a half years. Currently I have three dogs that I, the unconditional love

1109
01:58:08,160 --> 01:58:14,560
of the dog, people might joke about it or talk about it, but it's very true. My dogs, they don't

1110
01:58:14,560 --> 01:58:20,160
care who I am, what kind of day I've had. I go on a trip for two or three days. I come home and enjoy

1111
01:58:22,160 --> 01:58:28,160
at night when I'm in here watching TV, they are just right next to me all the time. And they bring

1112
01:58:28,160 --> 01:58:34,960
me nothing but happiness. So yeah, I'm a big, big lover, believer in dogs and what they can do for

1113
01:58:36,160 --> 01:58:38,800
you therapeutically and for your heart and soul.

1114
01:58:39,680 --> 01:58:42,880
Beautiful. All right. Well, I got very one last question, a kind of extension of that really,

1115
01:58:42,880 --> 01:58:47,840
before we talk about where we can find you in the book. Is there anything else that you do now to

1116
01:58:47,840 --> 01:58:59,120
decompress? To decompress. Well, believe it or not, traveling, spending a lot of time on airplanes

1117
01:58:59,920 --> 01:59:06,400
and doing my public speaking, that is my decompression. That is my sanctuary. That's

1118
01:59:06,400 --> 01:59:10,480
where I want to be. I want to be on stage. I want to be sharing my story. And then I love

1119
01:59:10,480 --> 01:59:15,760
getting on airplanes or whether it's just turning off my phone and being left the hell alone for

1120
01:59:15,760 --> 01:59:23,120
four hours or if it's watching a movie, reading a book. That's all something I enjoy, very

1121
01:59:23,120 --> 01:59:31,360
therapeutic. My youngest son is just finishing his sophomore year and he's having a pretty

1122
01:59:31,360 --> 01:59:36,720
successful run at baseball. He has a dream of playing college baseball and he was blessed with

1123
01:59:36,720 --> 01:59:43,680
some pretty good talent and a very good work ethic. So I find being at the field with him,

1124
01:59:43,680 --> 01:59:48,960
being at his practices, knowing that it's going to come to an end in a couple of years, that is very

1125
01:59:49,920 --> 01:59:58,800
much my happy place to do that. So I have it kind of all around. I don't have to do anything

1126
01:59:58,800 --> 02:00:04,320
every day that is ever like, oh, I don't want to do this. The alarm clock going off does not ever

1127
02:00:05,600 --> 02:00:11,280
erase my smile. It's like, all right, today's a new day. Let's go. Beautiful. Again, that gratitude

1128
02:00:11,280 --> 02:00:18,080
playing in, that's a key theme. Yes, indeed. All right. Well, so before I say thank you and sign

1129
02:00:18,080 --> 02:00:22,800
off, where can people find you if they want to reach out to you, if they want to get you to speak

1130
02:00:22,800 --> 02:00:29,760
and then where can they find the book? The book is on Amazon and Barnes & Noble. It's called

1131
02:00:29,760 --> 02:00:36,720
Burning Shield. My website is burningshield.com and it will have the video that you mentioned

1132
02:00:36,720 --> 02:00:42,000
that is pretty powerful. It gives an indication as to what I went through, what I'm going to talk

1133
02:00:42,000 --> 02:00:49,440
about, has some testimonials, a lot of pictures. And my email, my direct email is on there as well

1134
02:00:49,440 --> 02:00:56,000
as you can contact Equal Rise Speakers, Erica and Jason Redmond. They run it and I'm on their website.

1135
02:00:56,000 --> 02:01:06,640
So finding me, getting hold of me, asking me to do speeches is incredibly easy. I'm all over the place

1136
02:01:06,640 --> 02:01:16,080
on social media. I love Instagram and Twitter and my last name. While I'm glad that it's not just a

1137
02:01:16,080 --> 02:01:24,000
normal name, it's unique and easy to remember, but it's hard to spell. And so my Twitter and Instagram

1138
02:01:24,000 --> 02:01:33,600
that I do a lot of is Shekterly, S-C-H-E-C-H-T-E-R-L-E underscore Jace, J-A-S. And I stay very involved

1139
02:01:33,600 --> 02:01:41,600
on those. So I'm easy to get a hold of and I answer all my own stuff. You send me a message

1140
02:01:42,240 --> 02:01:48,240
or an email and you're going to hear directly from me. I don't have anybody else taking care of that.

1141
02:01:48,240 --> 02:01:56,080
Well, Jason, I just want to say thank you so much. I know that it's great that you

1142
02:01:56,720 --> 02:02:00,480
love to tell your story and that's beautiful. And I hope we were able to kind of tease some

1143
02:02:00,480 --> 02:02:05,440
different things out in this conversation. But I know it's going to be inspirational to people.

1144
02:02:05,440 --> 02:02:09,600
And like you said, I think in different ways instead of, oh, this person went through this,

1145
02:02:09,600 --> 02:02:15,840
but more the human element and using that as inspiration, not comparison.

1146
02:02:15,840 --> 02:02:22,240
Yeah. I think it's going to be awesome. And I look forward to hearing it. I appreciate all

1147
02:02:22,240 --> 02:02:26,640
your time today. And I love the way this conversation went. It means a lot to me.

1148
02:02:26,640 --> 02:02:31,280
I think you're doing some wonderful things and look forward to being out. So make sure you tag me

1149
02:02:31,280 --> 02:02:46,640
and everything when it comes out so I can jump on and listen.