This episode is sponsored by Life Aid.
As you guys know, I made a promise to only bring companies on as sponsors
whose products I actually use myself and believe in.
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Welcome, guys, to episode 209 of Behind the Shield podcast.
As always, my name is James Gearing, and I am so excited to welcome this week
retired Phoenix police officer Jason Shechterly.
Jason had an incredible career, but in the middle of it, he was on the way
to a call and was struck at one hundred and fifteen miles an hour by an out of control taxi,
was trapped, burned very badly.
But the events that unfolded from that specific incident are incredibly powerful.
But then what he did with that incident for the rest of his career was even more powerful.
So I urge you to put this at the top of your list, because this is going to be a very,
very powerful and moving episode to listen to before we get to this episode.
As I always say, please go to your podcast app, make sure you subscribe
and just take a moment to leave a review and a rating.
These ratings do make this show more visible to people that are looking for it.
And then take your social media and share these shows.
Jason's, for example, is one that I know is going to resonate with every single person
on the planet pretty much.
And the only way we can get his story to them is by sharing it.
So with that being said, I introduce to you Jason Shekhteli. Enjoy.
Jason, I want to start by saying thank you so much.
I know Jay connected us and you guys just interviewed us.
You guys just interviewed him on your podcast, didn't you?
Yeah. Oh, Jay Dobbins is one who connected us.
I believe so. Yeah.
Oh, that makes me very happy.
Yeah. You know, most of my podcasts, I say most, I've probably done four in the past six months
and they've all come through Eagle Rise Speakers Bureau people, which Jay is a part of,
along with Eric Redman and a few other pretty sharp guys.
But yeah, I was lucky enough to do, my podcast is pretty new.
I think yesterday was the 15th episode and it's 100% just a positive spin on law enforcement.
And I've known Jay since 2004. He's a phenomenal, phenomenal guy.
So he probably did connect us after doing yours and that makes me even more proud to be doing this.
Brilliant. Well, I want to start at the very beginning then.
So where are we finding you right now on planet Earth?
I am in Phoenix, Arizona, born and raised here and raising my family now.
Well, my family is pretty much raised. I got one child left at home who's finishing
his sophomore year in high school. And yeah, this is where I call home.
I travel a lot, a lot of public speaking, my full-time job.
But that's where I am currently as my ground zero.
Beautiful. So at the very beginning, where were you born exactly?
And then what was your family dynamic? What did your parents do and how many siblings?
I was born here in Phoenix, Arizona, right in the heart of Phoenix at an old
place called Maryville Hospital that you guys familiar with the valley would know it well.
I born to a couple of just fantastic parents. My dad was an engineer dealing mostly in
explosives. My mom was a stay at home mom, which I count my blessings that we had that opportunity
for her to be home. And I have an older brother who's about nine years older. He was also a
Phoenix police officer, retired and now moved out of state. And then I have an older sister
who currently lives here with her husband and kids. My dad has since passed away a couple of
years ago on the date of my accident of all days, which is something we could talk about because
the ironies in my story are endless when it comes to that date. But yeah, my family dynamic was
great. Great schools, great friends, played sports. I just had the, I had a story of a childhood.
Beautiful. Now I want to explore that a little bit because one thing that strikes me from your
story is obviously, we're going to get to it. There was a huge trauma, but I think it's
a huge trauma. But the overall impression I get of you is that you had the kind of upbringing where
gratitude and kindness clearly seem to be very embedded into how you were raised, which ultimately
seemed to prepare you for not only what you went through, but what you did with that as well.
So what were your parents' philosophy on raising you guys?
Well, you know, I love that that comes through because when I look back on my life, I don't see
any defining moments because I had such a good childhood. I had nothing go wrong, no adversity,
no death in the family, no divorce. I mean, I just kind of cruised through life. I wasn't raised in a
religious background. My dad, who I was so, so close to, I mean, he truly was, like a lot of
people say that their dads were their heroes. I really looked up to my dad, but my dad was an old
school New Jersey kind. And the first time he ever said, I love you, was the night before I went
to the military. I was 18 years old. But for those first 18 years, there was never a doubt of how much
he loved me, how proud he was of me. And my mom was fantastic with how she raised us. I love the
dynamic of the separation in our ages for my siblings. My older brother is nine years older,
my sister is five years older, and I'm in a similar situation now with my own kids. And I love the
beauty of the time gaps and the differences. But in order to be honest, growing up, it was
almost way too much of smooth sailing. I always loved life. I always appreciated life. But
there was never any problems. It was pretty remarkable. I was very, very lucky, which
later, as we'll talk about, set me up to be the least prepared person for what I was going to.
Yeah, what I got from that whole thing, and it's kind of the same path I've
traveled as well. So I went through, my parents did get divorced, but it was when I was 18,
I was kind of pretty much out the home anyway. And so you ended up having this event in your life,
which then opened doors as far as a platform and giving back as well. But before that,
you went from this idyllic life, as did I. But then you came out with this gratitude and this
want to make the world better. And I think that's something that when we turn on our televisions,
I'm not talking about people in general, but the stories we're told through our devices,
through our TVs, it's almost like a, I've got mine, screw everyone else kind of thing. And so
it's so endearing when you meet someone who hasn't been through hell, who's had kind of things,
kind of, not handed to them, but a pretty non-traumatic upbringing that goes, because of this,
I therefore owe it to everyone else to serve and try and make the world better and use the gift
that I was given to raise other people up. Yeah, I love hearing that, any kind of
similarities between us, but you're hitting the key points. I don't find it hard
to simply understand, no matter what you believe in, why you put on this earth, why you were created,
all that stuff. I'm a God-fearing guy. I go to church with my family now and I have my own
very peaceful and serene spirituality within myself that gets me through a lot. But the simple
understanding that every day, wanting to be grateful for something, wanting to give back
to others, wanting to leave the world
better than you found it, and on small scales each day. And where that appreciation came from,
I do remember being a very positive child, a very positive young man, but that more came from
just the easy flow of life. Not coming from divorced parents, or even for you,
for you to get divorced at 18. I'm sure you had a lot to go through with that, maybe some anger,
whatever the reasons are behind that, but you were 18, you were an adult. When you go through it,
when you're a two-year-old, you're dividing households every other weekend, things like that.
I never had to go through things like that. So to just appreciate life and want to make it better,
so to just appreciate life and want to make it better for other people. And you're right about,
I know I'm getting kind of long-winded, I hope you're happy to edit some of these, but I want to
always share my true feelings with you. But turning out, I'm a news junkie. I love to soak
up information, whether it be reading, watching the news. And that's what I'm constantly
conflicted with is the people that I see on TV. They don't seem like they're genuinely trying to
make the world a better place. They're out for themselves. I can find the inspiration I need on
social media. I can follow you. I can follow Jay Dobbins. I can follow Jason Redman and some
of the other people that give me inspiration. And it's right there, thank God. But turning out just
the news every day, you're like, good Lord, the world is a rough place right now. Yeah,
absolutely. I'm not going to be editing any of that out, by the way. Okay.
I love it. So yeah, no, I couldn't agree more. Now, getting back to your childhood just for a
moment, so what about the physical side? Were you an athlete when you were young?
I was. I wouldn't say anything stellar. I was, you know, what's that old saying? Jack of all trades,
master of none. I was very competitive and competent in whether I was an excellent bowler
as a young child. I was good at basketball. I was good at baseball. I never played football.
And that only comes from, I always wanted to, but my parents were very strict on that.
And when I started high school, I was very small, like right now, 6'3", 200 pounds.
And when I started high school, I was five feet tall, 100 pounds. I was a very late bloomer when
it came to fury and growth. So I show up for high school, my mom's like, hey, you want to sign up
for football? And I'm thinking, are you freaking crazy? I have no idea how to play. I'm going to
get crushed. But I was also, my real love from hanging out with my dad as a young child was
playing golf. And I had a natural gift for, had a good swing and ability to be creative, shape shots.
And I loved it. I loved the challenge. There's nothing more frustrating than the game of golf.
And later in life, I geared toward that full time. I gave up basketball, I gave up baseball,
and I dedicated myself just to golf later in my high school years. But yeah, sports was, I loved
them all. And I still do, whether watching them or playing them, even with my injuries,
I still loved the ball. I still am pretty good at golf. And that was a, I think sports,
I don't ever want to take away from people who are not into sports. And I have a couple children who
are anti sports. I have one who's an incredible jockey, and I have two who are like, yeah, I
don't care anything about those games. But I think sports teaches you a lot in life and
in the camaraderie, the teamwork, the it's not me, it's for somebody else. That carried through
preparing me for my service in the military, then my service as a police officer, and then
the team that I was surrounded by that helped me get through
the initial injury all the way to my health and happiness today. It's almost like it's been a
constant sport my whole life. Now, do you find that your love of sport, your love of movement and the
human body earlier in life was one of the driving forces to get back as much of that physicality as
you could post injury? Oh, huge. Yeah, I just, that's the one thing I couldn't accept. And
I didn't care if it was friends or doctors telling me something as simple as look, you're not going
to play golf again, you're not going to go back to work, you're not going to shoot a gun, you're
never going to, there's no way those deformed hands of yours are ever going to fit into
a bowling ball, you're not going to feel the hole of racket and get a good cardio workout.
I didn't care what they said. Every amount of it was like, yeah, I'm going to do all those things
because when you are physically active, and speaking from the point of view of I've had
a lot of good drugs flow through my system, a lot of good drugs. Another thing we got in common.
Yeah, a lot of good drugs. And I would say that the knowledge that what you do when you're active,
the pitocin that is dumped inside you, the adrenaline you feel, the smile, the laughter,
those are all instantaneous things that make you feel there is no drug in the world that can make
you feel what those things do. So that was a big part of my dedication. Brilliant. All right. Well,
you mentioned about the service. So was that your initial career goal even when you were in high
school? Service as far as the military? Yes, the military. No, it actually wasn't. Service as far
as being a police officer, I knew at a young age it was something I wanted to do because my older
brother had become a cop and I saw, just going on ride-alongs, just seeing what him and his friends
were doing. Like, yeah, I kind of like this job. Maybe I'll do that. But I was also growing up in
the 80s, growing up in West Phoenix, horse property. I was kind of a country boy. I liked to ride
horses, I liked to ride ATCs, the ones that are illegal now, the old fashioned three wheelers and
hanging out with my friends on my BMX bike. Just that great 80s childhood jamming out to
all the incredible music that I still love. You read the book, I mean, John
Cougar-Mellicamp, R.E.L. Speedwagon, Def Leppard. I mean, these were my anthems growing up. So
I did not have a, I want to serve, I want to give back to others mentality at that young age. But
I'm not insulting myself. I just didn't have the maturity. But I knew I wanted to be
a cop. But looking back on 16, 17, 18, it was more for selfish reasons.
So those reasons were more kind of the image of then?
Yeah, I wanted to be the guy in uniform. And I wanted to have the ability to,
yeah, I got to find the right word. I never was affected by like, a power of it. It was, but to
have the ability to affect people's lives in a positive way, or to take somebody who's in a very
negative situation. And even though in the police world, you're going to make their situation a lot
more negative for a temporary time, whether they be going to jail or be getting fines on traffic
tickets or things like that. I still viewed that as being a part of the solution and trying to get
people on the right path. So it was kind of the all consuming, what it means to be a police officer.
And then on the selfish side, I'm like, hey, the stuff I see on TV is pretty cool. I want to take
bad guys to jail. I want to get in full pursuits. I want to get in fights. That kind of stuff was
like, yeah, let's go do that. Yeah. Well, Jay talks about the image of Miami Vice and then how
the reality was trailers.
He had me laughing because I never looked at it that way. But I'm like, yeah, you know what,
that white sport coat and driving that car, I could see why people might have been like,
ooh, I want to do that.
So then from that drive to be a police officer specifically, how did you find yourself entering
the Air Force?
So I'm pretty good at golf. Graduated high school, got a scholarship to a small college
here in Arizona. And I'll try to make a long story short, but I like golf is a very difficult sport.
And I finished second in the state championship way back in 1990. And the guy who won goes to ASU
and played with Phil Mickelson. And I am the first person to play in the state championship.
And I ended up at a much smaller school. It's a very competitive thing. And then the coach who
recruited me was a great guy. And then he left right before I started. So I get this other coach
who kind of legendary in Arizona, but him and I did not click, did not have chemistry. I mean,
he was the type of guy that when we got done, he would look at his notepad and tell me how many
times I said the F word on the golf course. I'm like, well, yeah, it's golf. I'm going to say
the F word quite a few times. So he kind of turned me off from just that. And then I also started to
get to the point where I'm like, wow, there are some, I think I'm good at golf. There are some guys
out here who can flat play this game. I cannot hit the ball the way they do. I cannot score the way
they do. So starting to have a little realization. And then again, I knew I wanted to be a cop. I knew
what my future held. And a lot of my friends that I had grown up with in high school, they were
starting to get into a little bit of trouble. They were starting to go down some paths that
I just was not going to gravitate towards. So it was a very strange thing. I look at my kids now
and I think if you did what I did, I would absolutely knock your head right off your shoulders.
But I went to a recruiter one day, Air Force, a lot of my family, my dad, my grandfather,
served in the Air Force. And I wanted to recruit by myself at 18 years old, and just very openly
said, look, I need some structure and discipline. And I want to serve my country, follow the footsteps
of the rest of the men in my family. How do I do it? And I made some mistakes because I was naive,
but that's kind of how that came about. It was a very spontaneous, although life-changing
way of decision. Right. So when you said made mistakes, are you talking about not
choosing specific areas within the Air Force? Right. When you said that? 100%. Okay. The reason
I asked that, you know, the best recruiting story I've heard is a guy, Pat McNamara, who
now teaches weapons. He was a Delta Force operative. And his dad actually sent a friend of
theirs who was a lawyer to the recruiting office to make sure that he actually got what he walked
in that again. That's a smart way to do it. It sounds like it now. I walked in. You know,
we have to be respectful of the military. Especially the Air Force. The Air Force is an
exact replica of civilian life. Everything that we have every day, the Air Force has, only it's
just mirrored within the confines of their setup. And so they have jobs to fill. They have people
who are retiring and things like that. So I walked in and he said, what do you want to do? Well,
I was 18 years old and I was alone. I didn't know the extent of what you could do. I didn't know
you could learn to be an accountant, an X-ray technician, all these things that would have
really set me up later in life. And without a college degree, of course, I'm going to be a
non-commissioned officer. And I said, well, I want to be a cop when I get home here in Phoenix. So
I'd like to be a cop in the Air Force. Well, I'm sure he was licking his chops thinking, oh,
I got this kid. And he said, okay. And I signed the papers and then come to find out there are two
different versions of police work in the Air Force. And I got the not so fun, not so productive in the
future. So you weren't like diving, skydiving, gun battles, police chases. No, listen, I went through,
so I signed up and signed the papers, came home, told my parents I joined the Air Force, which
that just gives you an inclination into how life was back then. Again, my kids did this. And one of
my kids walked in the door and said, hey, I joined the military today. I just can't even imagine
my reaction. I went home and said, I joined the Air Force. And my parents were like, oh, good for
you. So I went to basic training at Lackland Air Force Base. It's the Air Force. I'm not insulting
them. The Air Force is awesome, but it's easy. And it was six weeks. I did. And then I find out I am
security police, which I'm like security. That doesn't have the same ring as law enforcement.
And a few months goes by, I complete my training. And all of a sudden I'm in Grand Forks, North
Dakota, in minus 40 degree weather staring at V1 bombers and a nuclear facility thinking, how in the
world did I get myself in this situation? So you were basically sentry duty then, but not
even for people. Completely sentry duty. I mean, out there all alone, walking around an airplane
in the middle of the night again, North Dakota. I'm sure some of your listeners have been there. It is
crazy cold up there. I slipped. New Year's Eve, my first New Year's Eve there, I got there in October.
Two months later, New Year's Eve, I slipped on the ice, fell on my M16, snapped my collarbone
right in half. And again, laying on the ground, 40 degree below. I'm thinking, how did I get here?
There was a constant theme of, what am I doing? How in the world am I here?
So what was the highlight of your military service then before you transitioned out?
Well, the highlight for me looking back was exactly why I went into the recruiter,
exactly what I said to him. I need structured discipline. That's what it did for me.
And while I make fun of the weather in North Dakota, it was a nice change from
a big city. The people were so incredibly kind. You don't lock your doors back then. It was just
a fun two years. And then I got a remote assignment to Korea. I mean, I turned 21 over there. What an
incredible experience in life. Then I had a little bit of a setback. I wanted to come home. I got
assigned to Luke Air Force Base in Phoenix. And right before I got home, I mean, two weeks before
they pulled those orders on me. So it was a little bit of a, like, oh, that sucks. I'm going to be
stuck back in the Northern Tier. And then I got to Eglin Air Force Base in Florida. I get down
there. And again, cruising through life could be more happy. The panhandle of Florida is I've got
an uncle who lives in Panama City. I'm playing golf with him every week. Life is great. I get a call
one night at nine o'clock, PM saying, hey, get your stuff. You're on an airplane at midnight.
We're not telling you where you're going because Eglin is a mobility base worldwide deployment.
This was 1994. I got on an airplane and with 44 other guys. And I ended up in Guantanamo Bay,
Cuba for the 1994 Haitian refugee crisis. So I don't I can't say that I had a highlight,
but I have no bad memories of anything that took place. I loved just the structure, the discipline,
the people I worked with, the people I worked for, and wearing that uniform and knowing that I was
doing a very small part that was much bigger than myself was a great thing to get instilled in you
in your 19, 20, 21 years on this earth. Those are some formative years. And so I would say that's
my highlight.
Brilliant. And again, that seems to be that gratitude that's inherent in you coming out,
even with that. I think that's, you can even some shitty, you know, employment portions of my life
come away and it's like, all right, well, I learned mainly what not to do, but it's still a lesson.
So, right. Brilliant. All right. So then you got out of the Air Force. So you had quite a
challenge actually getting into a department. So if you wouldn't mind just kind of walking me through
getting into the academy and then and then getting hired.
Okay. Yeah, it's you read the book and this is not I don't go into quite this amount of detail
normally in my my public speaking just for time purposes. But the actual truth behind it is I came
home with my honorable discharge and you know, I'm 22 years old. I want to be a cop and life is just
that easy. Go put in an application and you'll get the job, right? That's just how you take things
for granted, especially when you've had no adversity in life. And I tested was not successful.
Just I look back at it now and think it was more maturity and just not just not being ready. I
guess I didn't make it to the oral board process. And for any people out there been to
law enforcement or firefighter, the process, it's a serious process. You they can't just hire somebody
simply because they say, hey, I want this job. So I was not successful and tried again, tried the
several departments and I didn't go college degree. This is what I'm going to do. Need a job, need
a job, need good benefits. I want to be a cop. And I just was not making it some other departments.
It's not that I failed their process. I just they weren't hiring that many people. Phoenix, I
did not make it to the process a couple of times. And I finally it was kind of the the old fox in
the grapes story where, oh, I didn't want that job anyway. It's their loss, not not mine. They're
missing out on a good cop. And I got a job with Arizona Public Service, one of the two main power
companies here in the valley where I live. And it's it's a great, great company. They're huge.
You get great benefits. You make good money. I had gotten married at this time. I had two little
kids, a daughter and son. I had a lot of responsibilities. And I started out to Pelliburg
nuclear plant and I got an apprenticeship to be a lineman and I'm one of the guys that work on
the overhead and underground power lines. Life was was really set for me. And and now I'm 26
years old. I'm making a lot of money back in the 1990s, especially for a guy with no college
education. And again, I'm a I'm a redneck. I grew up on basically, you know, a farm. I had chickens,
I had horses, I had all these animals. I was into the blue collar work. I loved construction,
I loved putting things together. And life was good. And so what happened to me was on March 26th of
1999, came home from work and I turned on the five o'clock news and the lead story was pink
police officer Mark Atkinson had just been shot and killed in the line of duty. And that
moment in time that standing there, I can still see him wearing my work boots, my jeans, my long
sleeve blue collared shirt. And I knew right then and there that it was time. And that's the job I
had to be doing. I'm going to wear that uniform. And I'm going to do what he was doing and I'm
going to honor him. And that's when it all clicked, clicked for me that aha moment. And I
was like, and so I fill out another application. And this time, magically, you do things for the
true right reason. I cruised right to the process. I mean, it's a long process. It took me
three, four months. I didn't start the Academy until September of 1999. But that's kind of the
true backstory of the struggles I had getting there. And then that plays into the timing of
place later. Yeah. And then that I think is a very powerful part of your story, though. And I heard
it, I think kind of you talked about it in one of the interviews I listened to. But it is, there are
police officers, firefighters, medics out there that have just had door off, a door off, a door
closed in their face. And they've still kept pushing and pushing. It's that burning desire
to serve that's carried them. And just like you, they may have found themselves in some other
position for a while, but they end up getting dragged back. And like you said, when the time
is right, when those stars have aligned, all of a sudden all those doors fly open. That is for sure.
And now, you know, with a little life experience and all the people I've worked around, both the
good and the bad, the one thing that I have been able to grow to appreciate is those aren't jobs
that should be just given to somebody because they want them or because they throw their name
on an application or they need good benefits and a steady paycheck. These are jobs that
to be done the right way, they have to be calling, they have to be done for the right reasons.
And the successes and failures that I have seen in both police and fire with people I've done and
worked around, it always boils down to that exact thing. People who do it for the right reason
end up successful or even in a situation like mine, you're able to overcome
injuries, setbacks, because every day I'm like, I know exactly why I put my name on that application
and I have no regrets for it. So it shouldn't be easy. Back then, I thought it should and I
wished it was. I took it for granted. But the way things worked out for me, I wouldn't change how
that went. Yeah. And I honestly couldn't agree with you anymore. And it shows in what happened,
especially when, and we'll talk about in a bit, but your return to law enforcement after the event,
which I mean, talk about the burning desire, no pun intended. The drive to serve, to carry you
through that is just, I mean, it's a huge testament for who you are and the desire to serve.
Now, what about the academy itself? Was it the kind of academy where they set the bar pretty high,
that you really had to earn that position? Yeah, the academy was, you know, back then,
law enforcement's in a down cycle right now. A lot of people don't want to be cops because you,
of what you're hearing and seeing on the news and how that's law enforcement's being portrayed. So
you get a lot, I think, what really qualified people who maybe shy away from thinking, I'm
not going to put myself, excuse me, through that. But back when I went, we used to take the test,
it was called the Phoenix Convention Center, which is a huge, huge building with a lot of
events here. And I walked in, there was a thousand people for maybe 20 spots. And they just did,
a lot of people wanted to be cops back then, as with firefighters. So it was a difficult thing.
It made you appreciate it more, the challenge of becoming a police officer and the seriousness
of the advocates that they are going to hire. Yeah. And then just like you said before, you and
Jay, your heroes were TJ Hooker and Miami Vice, and it was all this positive image. And now it's
the dirty cops and the alcoholics and the drug addicts. So even in the films, it's hard to find
a positive police hero these days. It is. And I hear this not only from law enforcement. I think
fire, we're still doing okay, but actually the military too and the special forces organizations,
not only the image, but just the pool as well because physicality, because sport
is not or hasn't been as popular. And some of the things like video games and other areas are
pulling some of these kids away that the pot that we can draw these applicants from is actually
shrinking too. Yes, I agree. Yeah, but unfortunately, the qualified people, it's just, I still teach at
our academy. And so I see the good and the bad on both sides, the people who were there just, again,
it seems like a cool job. I need a paycheck and good benefits versus the people who are like me.
I know I put my name on this application and I am going to do this job with the honor and humility
behind it. Fire has, I wouldn't say they have it easier. I could have never, ever been a fireman.
And I'm happily and humbly will admit that I used to go on calls and see what those fools did. I'm
like, you guys are crazy. I wouldn't do that job. But people, being a firefighter is a little more,
I don't know if prestigious is the right word, but everybody loves firefighters. They say babies. They
are only there to help you. Whereas when a police officer shows up, they're not always there to help
you. A lot of times they're there to make your life a little bit worse. And so people don't like
them quite as much. Yeah. Well, police, you know, hold us to a level of accountability too. You know
what I mean? Well, as they should. We have laws, we have a constitution and without law and order.
And I know a lot of people in the world today, politicians or whatever, seem to think that
all police officers are bad and we don't need that. But I can't even begin to fathom what
the country would look like if we did not have law and order. If you did not have people out there
making sure that you're safe at night in your home and in your bed and people lose sight of that. It's
so, it's just amazing to me. Yeah. What exactly? And I put a post up today that reposted that video
that someone had made about law enforcement. Oh yeah, it's a great video. Yeah, it was. And for some
reason, all we see on the TV is either those incidences were actually the police officer was
right. They're just twisting it. Like there was one recently that I saw posted and it was
someone saying this kid was shot, he was unarmed. And then when you actually looked into the case,
the car that he was in had just murdered someone on a drive-by shooting. And then the kid ran out.
And I don't know if he stopped and turned to them or what, but that's kind of, you've crossed the
line of innocent lamb by that point. Now you're basically an armed car full of murderers. And
so that's a different dialect. But then you also get these ones where yes, the police officer was
completely wrong. And I even argue with some of these, like are they sleep deprived? Are they
overworked? Are there other areas that cause them to make that mistake in the first place
the job has created? But we don't report on the other 98% of the men and women who are out there
doing everything right, not shooting people when they shouldn't be, not using too much force,
not chasing people through school zones and just all the right way. But we never ever see that
on the media. And so therefore, the profession is being demonized and people that aren't educating
themselves and just believing whatever network that they're glued to for 12 hours a day,
are thinking that that is the entire police force or the entire military or the entire fire department.
Yes. Yeah, craziness. Yeah, really, we can talk for hours on that.
And I'm just the subject of what these men and women put up with. It's one of the few colleagues
in life. It's like being a teacher, it's like being a nurse, police and fire,
there's really nothing like it. Absolutely. All right. Well, then you talked about March 26,
a very pivotal moment in 1999. So let's get to March 26, 2001. If you could kind of lead us
through that day and then I'd love to explore actually that the response from the fireside and
how everything came together in that one moment. Yeah, this is something that I am
very open to very much love talking about, that's for sure, because there's just so much that goes
around it. So again, I became a police officer because of ultimately because of the death of
Marqueex. And so made it to the academy, greatest four months of my life, loved every minute of it.
I think I was a little more at ease with the process because I had been in the military,
I understood that you're going to get yelled at, you're going to run, you're going to do pushups.
And learning law enforcement, I mean, this is a learning the law, learning how to take care of
yourself and conduct traffic stops, how to treat people with respect and kindness until it's time
for them to not be treated with that way. I mean, just everything that went into it, I was a sponge,
I soaked it up and I loved it. So hit the streets, it was everything I wanted it to be, all the fun,
romantic things that I had seen on TV about being a cop. And then did my year of probation.
Again, life for me, perfect. 28 years old, parents are healthy and happy,
half of them married, all four of my grandparents are alive and married. I have never even suffered
a death in my family, let alone a divorce or a serious setback. And I've got a beautiful,
growing new family of my own. So I'm just cruising through life again. And I went to work at
three in the afternoon on March 26th, not thinking much of it. Here we go, going to do another shift
and go home. I've got plans for the weekend. I've got the normal thoughts that we have as
fathers or whatever on my mind. And about 1130 that night, I answered a call that was not in my
area, a call that I really had no business answering up for. And I did that because the
officers that are busy, the call went unanswered, I wasn't doing anything. So I'm getting out,
shifting an hour and a half, I'll go take care of this. And it was a serious call, it was a dead
body call, a lot of blood in the apartment, possibly a violent crime I committed. So just
doing my job. And on my way to that call, running what we call code three, lights and siren, get
those as quickly as I can. And I stopped at a traffic light, red light, because even though
you're running code three, as you know, you still got to come to a stop, you can't just
fly through a red light, you got to make sure people are going to yield to your emergency vehicle.
And it takes maybe a second and a half to clear the intersection. And just as I'm going to proceed,
my patrol car was struck from behind by a taxi cab. The driver was suffering in
epileptic seizure at the time. He was going over 100 miles an hour on a 40 mile an hour downtown
posted city street, something that's kind of unfathomable. But, you know, grand mall
epileptic seizure, you're not in control. So he happened to looking back on it, I think
gravitated toward my lights in that situation and slammed into the back of me. My patrol car was
driving the Ford Crown Victoria and they were very susceptible to rear and fuel fed fires.
A lot of officers had died in these types of crashes, countless civilians that you never hear
about on TV. And that's what happened. My car burst in flames, traffic me inside. I was knocked
unconscious, thankfully, for so many reasons, mentally, emotionally, as well as physically
that we can talk about not being in the chaos and the fear and trying to get out of that car
while you're sucking in all that heat and fire and smoke that those kind of things would have
killed me within minutes. So just from the moment I was hit, blessing upon blessing happened. I flew
through the intersection about 270 feet and I came to stop right in front of the fire truck
that was in the intersection. And a lot of things, you know, I'm big on things don't just happen.
There is no such thing as instantaneous. There is so much that lead up to an event like this,
decisions and choices that are made over years and years by different people. And
just so much went into the timing of this. I come to rest in front of a fire truck and
the four people on this truck were just born to do what they were thrust into doing that night.
They were ready to go to work doing their individual jobs. You know, there's four
firefighters on a truck. They've all got very specific individual jobs to do. The captain's on
the radio giving incident details. The engineer's getting her truck wrecked. One of the firefighters
has to battle the blaze. And they had a rookie, young rookie, 22 years old, was given the great
task of getting me out of the car. So they were faced with not only endangering their own safety,
but staring at a cop car engulfed in flames. And constant firefighters have a great way of teasing
each other and talking smack. And it's a whole lot of fun. But when it comes right down to it,
you're not going to find two groups of people who will fight for each other more than those two
career fields. So I give them a lot of credit for what they went through with their adrenaline,
with the chaos of the moment and what they must have been experiencing individually.
Two good friends of mine, two cops, showed up within about 30 seconds, helped get me out of the
vehicle of which I was out of in 90 seconds. And that's hard to imagine from the time of impact.
Fully engulfed in flames and I'm out of that car in 90 seconds and in an ambulance and on my way to
what I'll argue with anybody is the best burn center in the United States at Maricopa County
Hospital. I was only two and a half miles away from them and I was on their trauma table in less
than eight minutes. Amazing. Now, just to go back for a second. So the rookie had slept in through
the core at the fire station, is that right? Yes. One of the beauty, one of my favorite parts of this
and I say favorite parts because I'm a big believer in timing and people often talk about
miracles and God choosing who gets put in the situation or who gets to survive. And I have a
whole different belief system on that whole thing. But timing is what matters. Choices are what
matter. And yeah, three of them got on the truck and they waited. They were on their way to the same
dead body call that I was going to. So they weren't called to my call. They were headed to the same
scene I was. And they waited about 45 seconds for this rookie. And finally one of them went back
in the station and the young man was sound asleep in his bunk. He had never been in a
never heard the alarm. And after those precious few seconds, I'm not standing here
sharing this story with you right now. It's unfortunate he was at that young age, he was deeply
affected by that. He ended up leaving the Phoenix Fire Department not too long afterwards. I do
believe that he is a firefighter in LA County now, which I am grateful for because I credit him so
much with the reason that I'm alive. And again, he was the one that was faced with, all right, we all
have this job. Your job is to go get him out of that car. And that's a pretty tall order when
you're talking about a human being burned alive. Absolutely. Well, I just want to go back to firstly,
anyone listening who's a rookie or anyone that sleeps through a call and then gets chewed out,
I want you to start telling the story of Jason Sheckterly and how it's probably going to be for
a good thing. Exactly. Hey, timing is everything. Don't underestimate, don't automatically look at
it as a bad thing. There could be a reason behind it. But then on a serious note, so I listened to
the radio traffic, that one video that you guys have on the website. And you're absolutely right.
And this is something that I talk about all the time on the show. So part of it is trying to fix
the employer, the environment that we work, the shifts that these men and women work, the time to
have recovery, the training. And the other side is ownership of the firefighter and our own fitness
and our own training. And there is no question the fact that they physically got you out,
the fact that you heard them calling to bring the ambulance as you talk about right up to the door,
right up to the car. Everyone sounded calm and composed. It was articulate. And there was no
time for learning on the job in that call. So all the stuff that I preach, all the things that I
try and do in my own career, I'm far from perfect. This is the time where you either save
a fellow police officer's life, or you stand back and watch them burn to death. And like you said,
those four men and women that were on that truck, the sum of their entire career was called
into action on that one moment. Exactly. And they all had come from
different backgrounds of their own, different training. They were at different ages and stages
of their career. So the responsibility of what they had to do in the moment, which for us,
four police officers, four firefighters, and I'll say this with the simple knowledge that I don't
care who you are or what uniform you're wearing. Fighter flight syndrome is very real within all
of us. Yeah. Just because you go through training, just because you have a uniform on,
you're not always able to do what a particular situation calls for you to do. And that's why I,
all these years, 18 years later, I constantly want to emphasize that these people did exactly
what they needed to do in their own categories with their own responsibilities.
Yeah. Now, what kind of entrapment did you have? I heard the seatbelt on the audio.
Was it just the seatbelt that was holding you in, or were you actually having like crushed
in part of the cruiser as well? Well, if you saw pictures of the cruiser, I mean, it's crushed.
God, I can't remember the exact measurements, but I want to say from back to front, hit it that
speed. My car was roughly 84 inches of crush, but the driver's compartment was not crushed.
I was not trapped inside in the form of twisted metal or things being caved in. I was
just very simply stuck in my seatbelt, unconscious in a burning vehicle with my window up. That was
the two things that they had to get through, was to get my window open and get me extracted from
the seatbelt. And I'm six foot three, pulling a six foot three guy who is dead weight
and charred pretty badly, pulling the body window is not easy.
No, absolutely not. So again, I mean, just want to paint that scene a little bit because
from a first responders perspective, that is A, an incredibly physically challenging task,
like you're saying, and then B, emotionally. And I hope the young man is listening to this today. And
if he is, kudos to you for making that grab and the officers that helped and everyone else on that
rig because you walk the walk, simple as that. And you are who we aspire to be.
Exactly. And what they need to know most and I still spend time with a couple,
the engineer and the firefighter who battled the blaze. I still spend time with them at least once
a year on the anniversary. And I always want them to see and know what you did that night.
It wasn't just those few seconds. It wasn't just getting me out of that car. Let's look at
the ripple effect that took place after that. And I know a lot of first responders get to see
the fruits of their labor later in life. They only, you know, they do what they need to do,
the task at hand, and then they go on to the next call. And as the calls pile up, you'll forget
maybe what you did and how you impacted somebody's life. And I love to be able to show them
the smile on my face, the happiness and health of my family. That is something that's very important
and I wish above anything, I wish every firefighter in the country would read my book just to say,
you know what, I've been on calls like that. I am one of those people and that's why I do this job.
Yeah. Well, speaking of the injuries, so one of my worst calls I ever had was not the same as yours,
but it was a young man. He was either arson or suicide, but he ended up walking out of a burning
building on fire. The only thing that wasn't burning his body was the soles of his feet.
I would say it was three, a third degree burns, certainly all the way through his body. Some areas,
some member, you know, parts of his anatomy were completely gone. So definitely, you know, even
more than fourth. And miraculously, he had normal vital signs. We had him talking, which was
anatomically like you talk about, anatomically it was impossible. That gentleman actually passed
away. I mean, there was no happy ending to that one, but seeing the pictures and I urge people
listening to watch the video on Jason's website, the trauma to your face and like you say, the fact
that your airway wasn't affected was yet another, just defies all anatomy and physiology. So when
you got to the hospital, what was their response to that?
Well, they intubated me right away. I mean, I think my airway was constricted just because
a lot of people don't know about burns is they will keep on burning. So,
and it's the constriction of things. Like I give one of the things I credit with saving my life is
my bulletproof vest because my chest was not harmed. Had my chest been burned, anything like
my arms and face, I would have died within just a couple of minutes. And the burns, so they just
keep restricting, they just keep tightening. And basically, if you don't have any,
if you don't have any interior injuries, you are still going to basically be suffocated or crushed
to death by the constrictiveness of the burns on the skin. So they were, they did intubate me with
the extent of the burn injuries to make sure I had an airway. And all that mattered was getting
my family gathered around, telling them what was going on, which was pretty simple. Jason's not
going to survive this. That was the extent of that conversation. I've never seen burns like this to
somebody's head and face. And there's not much we can do about it. But we're going to get him into
surgery, and we're going to get all of that dead bacteria of the tissue off of him. And so those
were the first few hours it was getting the paperwork signed, getting my family to understand
what's going on and getting in there and basically removing all of the dead bacteria filled tissue,
stopping the burns. But with that also comes the removal of the entire physical identity that I'd
known for 28 years. And did you ever regain consciousness after the impact? Or did they put
you into an induced coma before you had the chance to come around?
They placed me into a medically induced coma. I have two very faint memories. And I spent a
lot of years wondering if I was just dreaming or whatever. When you're in a, again, my coma was
medically induced, so not due to a head injury, not a coma like you might think of when you hear
that awful word. But I have a faint memory of coming to when I was in the car. And it's very
vivid. I remember everything being very dark, so loud, like a freight train. And I've heard
from other firefighters when they are in the devastation of a fire that that's what it's not
a quiet environment. It is overwhelmingly loud and intense. And I remember being surrounded by
firefighters, but this is a second of a memory. And I do think maybe I was coming to, but your
body kind of knows what it can and can't handle and shut back down for me. And then I have a
memory of violently, like projectile bombing. And I found out later, my friend and I from my
squad, we had just eaten our, you know, it was a night shift, we had eaten our lunch probably
an hour and a half before my accident. And he was in the room with me. He's the one who identified
me based on a tattoo that I had on my arm. And he said that when they intubated me, that I did
projectile bombing all over the place. So those memories, they could have been real, I could
have been waking up a little bit, but otherwise, it was a complete peace and being asleep until I
was weaned out the medicine and woken up sometime later.
And you say sometime, how much, it was a pretty significant amount of time that you actually
regained consciousness.
Yeah, it was, again, medically induced and these drugs are, they know what they're doing. And
as time went by, surgery was successful. Life seemed to be on the saving side versus
he's going to pass away. And when it finally came time for them to decide to wake me up for
their own reasons, see, you know, take a look at what I'm dealing with, let him know what's going
on. My accident was on March 26, and they woke me up on June 12. So two and a half months in a coma.
And a medically induced coma is the blink of an eye. I had a very, very bad, very bad
blink of an eye. I say two and a half months and I promise you, it was no more than one second.
In my world.
Wow. So when you came around from that, you still had a lot of trauma to your eyes. So
did you have any vision at all?
Devastating trauma to my eyes? No, I was 100% blind. And that was part of the
the devastation of waking up was just so many thoughts go to my head all of a sudden awake.
And I was very clear headed. Didn't have a brain injury and anything like that. And when the
medicine was clear, I knew I was in the hospital, I could smell it, I could hear it. I was thinking
about I was just at work. Why can't I move? Why can't I open my eyes? I'm gonna be in a thousand
thoughts pouring into my mind. And then I started my wife is in the room with me. And I started to
find out very slowly about the injuries. And my blindness was due to my neck, head and face were
the worst burns their fourth degree, which is down the last layers of muscle in the bone. So of course,
my eyesight was heavily affected. And so they saw the damage to my corneas and they covered those
with skin grafts. So my blindness was from my eyes being actually covered with other parts of my
my skin. And that went on for about nine months. And to this day, it's my biggest
biggest stroke, my biggest infarcity is my eyesight. Right. What about your hearing? I
know you lost your ear. So were you able to hear at least that time? Yeah, I go back to the old
saying that when one of your senses goes down, another one steps up and I was completely blind.
I was laying motionless on my back. I was hooked up to all these. I had nothing. But anytime somebody
would walk into my room, I was always super sensitive to where they were, what kind of the
noises they were making, guessing what they were doing or when they were talking. So my hearing
was always okay, even though I did lose my ears and I didn't have, you know, what doctors will say is
of the necessary files to get sound in there. But I saw the holes in my ears and I was not in the
fire long enough for it to creep in and do damage to the interior parts. My hearing has always been
great. Right. And I want to move on from the trauma just from a medical perspective as well.
When you have fourth degree burns, like you're saying all the way through pretty much to the bone,
how what kind of because that's more than a skin graft, what did they do to actually start
recreating, you know, or repairing where that horrendous damage had occurred on your face?
Well, with me, again, the fourth degree to your neck, head and face, nobody survives that.
It just it doesn't happen. And the doctors went through, I was a tissue donor. And so the gift of
life for those people out there who are organ donors, it's easy to talk about being a heart
transplant recipient or a lung recipient or a lot of people take for granted, you hear one
of your favorite athletes in a football game tears his ACL and oh, my God, he's going to be
out for a year. Well, you know what? Somebody died so that he could get a new ACL and get back on the
road to recovery with his life. The gift of life is a ridiculously precious and special thing. And I
was a tissue recipient and tissue donors. I travel around the country speaking a lot about this.
You can help if you pass away today and you donated your tissue, you by yourself can help
efforts of one hundred and twenty people. It's not just one heart. It's not just one kidney.
It can go a long way in a lot of different areas. So I that helped me greatly in in surviving those
initial few days of protecting me against the infections, which a lot of the burn survivors,
you can survive a fire, you can survive a burn. It's the infections that come after that when you've
lost that coverage in those fluids. And of course, the hospital battled numerous infections. So I had
that. And then they did a what in 2001 was was probably considered rare and maybe pioneering.
But there's a there's something called a Tegra. And I can't remember. It's made of like
sharp cartilage and bovine oil, like from a pig. It's a it's an interesting concoction.
And they wrapped my head and face in that and then got the new skin grafts of which were my own,
because you can't even though the tissue recipient that doesn't last. You can not.
Your body will not accept another human being skin. So they used it just temporarily to get me through
some life saving measures. But then when it was time to do my own skin grafts, they really put it
on top of this Integra and cover my head and face and get me the protection again that I needed and
that I still live with today. Right. Now you talk about no one survives fourth degree burns. It's
that there's a list of things that you survive. So not only that, but the the lack of trauma to
your airway. And then and then we keep forgetting the 115 mile an hour real rear end collision that
you got as well. And it's just it's incredible that you had very little trauma from that versus
just the fire itself. Yeah, pretty astounding to think that I was hit at 115 miles an hour and
outside of the burns. I had two cracked roots in a mile percussion. That car doesn't catch on fire.
I go home a few hours after the accident. Crazy. So I've had a few people that have been a burn
injured people that have come through, you know, thrived. One of them, a friend of mine, Dustin
Hawkins, was talking about his experience with de-braiding. And it was a heartbreaking thing
because he basically said he would look at the clock. And let's say it was 10 minutes in and he'd
look and he'd have one or two thoughts, either I'm 50 minutes, I've got 50 minutes of this, or in 50
minutes, I've got to do exactly the same thing in 24 hours. So it was just an excruciating horrendous
experience for him. How was the pain for you through your treatment?
Well, I consider myself very lucky because I was unconscious. And like you, I know a lot of burn
survivors, I have a lot of friends now who have gone through that and the de-breeding process,
the scrubbing, the infections that I mentioned are what can be life threatening. They have to keep
those areas clean. And the pain, for what I understand, is absolutely devastating. Those
first few months, I did not have to go through that because I wasn't awake. Now afterwards, yes,
I experienced some pain that I don't think most people would be able to fully understand. And all
these years later, I don't even, am not able to remember. I've forgotten more about pain than I
remember going to truly know that I experienced. And that's part of the beauty of how our minds and
our emotions work. But I was very blessed to be in that coma for the length of time that I was.
Right. So, well then moving forward, so we got obviously all the physical side. So mentally, so
there you were seemingly full of gratitude, full of kindness and compassion prior to the accident,
whether it was your young years in the Air Force, as a law enforcement officer. So you were
a law enforcement officer. So what was your self-talk as far as getting back on track after
you acknowledged that this had happened, when you had time for it to actually sink in?
Well, the self-talk at first, it was,
I wouldn't say it was good. I didn't have anger. I didn't have
regret. What I had was a tremendous amount of confusion, a tremendous amount of fear,
a tremendous amount of claustrophobia from being blind. But then I also had
the appreciation of, all right, no matter what people are telling me, and it's, I mean,
between family, friends and my doctors, I'm not hearing anything good. But I still had
the thankfulness that I was alive. I'm still here, I'm still alive. I don't know what the future
holds, but I am not dead. And it quickly occurred to me also, you know, what did everybody else go
through in those two and a half months? I cannot believe what I'm being told right now. I cannot
believe I was asleep for that long. What are my kids thinking about this? What are my kids
thinking about? Where is dad? Why is he not here? What my wife had gone through, what my parents
and my friends had to witness. So that helped me a lot too, thinking,
well, now that you've been told this news, now that you're awake, you're really not allowed to be
so devastated by this, that you just tell everybody to
go to hell and give up because they've been here for these two and a half months, and they've been
fighting in their own right. So that helped me tremendously to at least
lay somewhat of a groundwork to eventually get to where I'm going to build the bridge back to
recover. Yeah, because I heard in one of the interviews, it became very clearly,
you hear so many times, I had some people here that have literally had a pistol in their mouth
before. And the common theme is the feeling of them being a burden to their family. And it seemed
that what kind of pulled you out is the reverse that you realize, no, I'm the protector of my
family. I've got a new son on the way. And you found that value and realized that no, no, no,
that you could see clearly enough that you were not going to be able to do that.
And you found that value and realized that no, no, no, that you could see clearly enough that
you would make their life worse if you weren't there anymore versus what sadly so many of these
men and women that do complete suicide misunderstand that they think they're leaving a burden from their
family and actually adding one. Yeah. Well, suicide is kind of a horrible thing. And as I said,
I had to do a lot of those next to get notifications and see the devastation to families,
understand the reasons why people would do it. And thankfully, I've never been in those kind of dire
straits. I had thoughts early on that it sure would have been easy to pass away. I didn't have
the fear. I didn't have the pain. It would have been easy to just let it come to an end. But
what I'm facing is not going to be easy. But these people did not give up on me. So I owed it to them
to if you want to support me, if you want to love me, if you're going to be here for me, then
I will join you. I will join you in this fight. And we will now do it together. I was not about
I was not about to let them down in that regard. And then when you add the kids in, as you mentioned,
we had a kid later, it was 18 months later. But that was a whole new perspective and responsibility.
But my first two kids, my daughter and son, I mentioned you earlier about putting your name
on the application. I know why I did that. I'm very proud of that. I have no regrets, the honor
and humility with which I became a police officer did a tremendous amount for me mentally and
emotionally recovering from this. But my kids did not sign up for this. They did not ask
for their dad to go out and get hurt like this or to change their life the way I did. And so the
overwhelming guilt that I felt as a father, because fatherhood to me is there's nothing like it is the
number one most beautiful blessing in life for me. And I had a lot to deal with on that. But again,
I'm not going to give up and I'm going to work toward getting them
healed, getting them on the right path. And I am going to dedicate
my life to making sure that they are better human beings because of the adversity that
they went through. So I tried to look at it like my purpose for becoming a police officer was what
it was. And now that my path has changed, I'm not going to let my purpose change. Now my purpose is
to better my children or those around me. Let's learn from this. Let's get better for this. And
I'll show them that I'll fight for them. Yeah, I interviewed my son for the last episode that I put
out. It was kind of like a mishmash. And some things came out that broke my heart. And when we
left him in there, I made sure he was okay with leaving him there. But he had some areas of
depression when he was younger, he had some bullying, but then even just me being away and
nothing bad, no near misses, no scares, nothing ever happened in my career so far. But like you
said, they didn't sign up for that. And their mother or their father is gone for 12 or 24 hours.
And he said the worst thing was not knowing if you're going to come home. Now for him, I did.
So he was still blessed. But that trauma just for the everyday is there. But to have what happened
to you, like you said, the knock on effect to your kids, I can see completely how concerned you must
have been for them and your wife as well. Once you were able to get past your own initial injury,
able to get past your own initial injuries. Yes, it that was always the hardest part. I've often
said it's easier to go through something than to watch somebody who loved go through it. So
regardless of what I may look like, or what people may think about my surgeries and pain and my eyesight
and all the stuff I've gone through, without a doubt, my family and my friends, my closest friends,
I genuinely believe that they had it tougher than I did. And they had a lot to overcome.
And I can look at, I can rattle off 12 names right now that are all better people and living
better lives because of what they went through with me, not because of what happened to me,
but they were part of the process of the team. And it had a positive impact on them. Now,
now, obviously, not at the time, but now it has. Yeah. Well, you made a very, really profound
statement in one of the interviews I listened to as well. And it's so pertinent with your story,
but also with fitness, with anything that people are passionate about, is you said that you're out
there speaking, you're inspiring people. But you were also talking about just because you went
through this specific thing, which is pretty severe, pretty intense compared to 95% of things
that happen to people, that doesn't discredit or belittle someone else's trauma. So would you
expand on that? Because I thought that was such a beautiful way of looking at it.
Yeah. And again, this is things that I've had to learn over the years, a lot of it through my
public speaking, where I'd have people come up and say, in the early days, I've been a professional
public speaker now for about nine years. And in the early days, I think both it came natural for
people as well as they thought it was a compliment to say, you made my problems seem small. You made
me not worry about the little things of what I'm going through. And I just always thought that is
the wrong way to look at it. And the best way to explain this, and hopefully your listeners will
not take this as callous as it might sound, but there's an old saying, I once saw a man, or I
complained that I had no shoes till I saw a man with no feet. You ever heard that?
I've posted a meme, that's a horrible description. I posted an inspiring quote with a picture of,
it was one of our military generals that lost both his legs. So yeah, I know it well.
Okay. So when I see that, what I think of is, you know, perspective is wonderful. It completely
shapes our focus on how we live our lives. Gratitude is great and compassion is great.
However, let's break that down to the reality of it. If I am sitting here with no shoes,
and I see a man with no feet, while I will be grateful and while I will feel compassion
toward that person, it does not take away the fact that my adversity is I don't have any shoes.
So because I see a man with no feet, does that mean that I'm supposed to walk around barefoot
on broken glass and hot asphalt and just say, oh, well, I have no problems because this other guy
has no feet. I think that's, as human beings, we tend to look at things like that and
adversity will come in all forms. And you cannot compare your adversity to somebody else's,
the comparison is the thief of joy. Somebody's got a bigger house. Somebody's got a better job.
Somebody makes more money. Their marriage is better. Whatever you want to say. Well,
the same thing goes for adversity. Whatever you are going through today, and I know you're
going through something. I know every one of your listeners is going through something. To look at
somebody else like me and compare yours and then put it on like a scale or to minimize, diminish
or insult what you're going through. You're holding yourself back. How are you going to overcome
what you're going through? If you're worried about you don't get to live my life, you don't get to
have my appearance and my eyesight and the things that I go through day to day. You have to live
your life and you embrace your adversity the best you can with the understanding and the respect
that there's a whole lot more coming your way. Adversity is constantly forming new ways to come
at you. We all have stories. We all go through stuff. And so I like to encourage people to,
as you're going through my journey, my story, stay in your, what are you facing right now?
What are you going to think about when you lay your head down the pillow tonight and you're
alone with your thoughts? What are your demons? What are your challenges? What do you need to
overcome? Don't worry about somebody else. Worry about yourself and that's how you overcome.
Absolutely. And what I got from yours is like you said, it's just the perspective. You should be in
all of the story, but pull from it not, oh, my troubles are worse, but the opposite. If Jason
had the human spirit to find his way out of that, therefore so can I. And mine might be,
you know, like you said, a divorce or something that really down the road is,
you're going to be back to who you were, maybe even a little bit more resilient, but there's no
trauma to the human side. There might be some fragmenting of your family, but whatever it is
at that moment, I've been through a divorce myself. That was my darkest time and it sucked.
But seeing people that have been through, that are happy, that are remarried,
it's not an apples to apples like you said, but these stories should inspire you that no matter
what you can see your way out of, like you said, your specific journey, your specific road,
but use these other stories as encouragement that no matter how dark the situation,
you can find your way out. You certainly can. Your human spirit is designed for that. It is designed
to lead you toward reward. It is designed to fight for you. You have to just simply be open to it and
let it fight for you and go along on the journey. Don't hold it back. That's exactly what I want
people to get out of it is not, well, Jason overcame ferns or I'm glad I don't look like Jason.
I'm glad I didn't go through that. It's, hey, he can overcome that. He's just Jason.
That guy was born in West Phoenix, raised on some horse property and he's just as full of crap as
anybody else in the world. And I put my pants on one leg at a time like everybody else. And I go
through the same struggles. I've been married for a long time. We had the same fights and
stuff that all married people do. I'm trying to raise my kids the best way I can. I'm trying to
make money for my family. I'm trying to take care of my own health. I tend to my own garden. And
if each person would do that, I think they'd be shocked at what they can
overcome because you're going to face things. You're just, and I don't, I have a meeting to go
to after we talk. And if I get out there and my tire goes flat and I'm going to be late to that
meeting, I don't go, Oh, well, it could be worse. I caught on fire once. No, I am angry. I'm angry.
I'm stressed. I'm like, I had to get my tire fixed and I got a call somebody and say, I'm going to
be late. I got to apologize. It's adversity. It just is what it is. There are no scales, in my
opinion, to this adversity. It's what's right in front of you. What do you need to overcome now?
And then let's get ready for the next one because that's constantly what's coming in life. To live
is to be hurt and to feel pain and to suffer and to put all those adjectives that you put in your
life. And you're not going to be able to do the things that you want to do. But it's really not.
It's just life happening to you. No good days, no bad days, just life.
So then I want to talk about the next chapter, which I mean, I don't want to delve too much
into the journey. I'm sure it was just horrendous. And that's something that you tell well in the
book, but what another inspiring thing about your spirit is that desire to go back to law
to lead us through that road, like how you mentally got there and then physically when
you found that you were able to fill that position again, it's incredible.
Well, I think a little bit of it's similar to like when you talk to Jay Dobbins. I mean,
that guy was shot through the lung four days into his job and almost died. He could have taken a
medical retirement. He could have taken the attitude of, you know, I'm lucky and I survived.
I probably shouldn't tip, fade again. But law enforcement, at least, you know, for me and I
think for a majority, it's a calling. I became a cop because Mark Axel was killed and I'm going to
honor him. I was not killed in the line of duty and I'm going to go back to work, not because I
need a paycheck, not because I need something to do for 40 hours. I am a police officer 24 hours a
day. It's who I am. And I had several doctors and again, several friends like Jason get, you know,
you got to get really, you're not, you're not going back to work. And this is at a time when I'm
completely blind. I've lost half my fingers. I'm laying flat on my back. I weigh 120 pounds,
frail and sick. And I'm saying I'm going to go back to work. And I can imagine people were like,
are you crazy? No, you're not. So I was never deterred from that from, that was never even a
thought when I woke up from my coma. It was not, of all the things that I was thinking about,
how am I going to learn to use my hands again? How am I going to get some of my eyesight back?
It was never a, well, not going back to work or can I, what if it was, I am going back to work.
I just don't know when. And so that was a big part of my, my mission was to recover well enough
to return to some form of law enforcement. And I had no idea what I'd be able to accomplish. I was
lucky enough to return to work after 18 months, started out as a, as a police officer,
started out as a public information officer, behind a desk, dealing with the media,
still going through therapy and surgeries and whatever else. And then I was given the
beautiful opportunity to join the Things Police Homicide Unit, go through a lot of training
and work my way up to where I was doing a job that I was very proud to be doing, very honorable.
There's nothing quite like being a homicide detective. The responsibilities that you have
and working with families that are affected by that kind of violence, speaking for victims that
can't speak for themselves, the things that you see and are a part of, it's, it's not for everybody.
I mean, it's, it's, a lot of people don't want to be around violent death or that kind of sadness
and tragedy. A lot of people aren't going to want to sit and watch an autopsy. It's, but for me,
it was something that meant a great, great deal to me. So to achieve that,
went along my way in my recovery process, but there was never a doubt from the day I woke up
that I wasn't going to, in some capacity, return to my career. That was my job. That's my career.
That's who I am. That doesn't get taken away just because a few people say it's going to.
That's my choice. And so that's what I did. Yeah. It's amazing. But you see this in so many,
so many people. I've had a guy who's a firefighter, Trevor Xiztas, who had a heart transplant and then
became a firefighter. I had Mark Ormrod, who was a Royal Marine, who got blown up, lost both legs
and one arm. And he competes to the Invictus games and he does Jiu-Jitsu. And so that, the adaptive
community, that's the word I'm looking for, the CrossFit world and some of these other areas.
Just working out, like you were saying, with a bowling ball. Let's say that you couldn't ever
get your fingers the way they were in a bowling ball, then just design a bowling ball that you
can. You know what I mean? So just engineering around what people can do instead of focusing
on what they can't. Exactly. I got my golf game back down to better than I was before the accident
with hands that are completely disfigured and deformed. I've only got five fingers total on
both hands. They are completely misshapen. I retrofitted golf clubs. I started working at it
again. I worked with doctors on how to shoot a gun again. And with these hands and this eyesight,
I was loading and unloading my gun. I was shooting and hit the target every time. I mean, you can.
There's nothing as powerful as a made-up mind. Nothing. Say you're going to do it, work toward
doing it. And I can guarantee you're going to accomplish exactly what you set out to do.
Absolutely. So what made you finally take the medical retirement?
I worked in homicide. The hours you keep are not eight to four. You go in and you work your cases
the way they need to be worked. And it was something that I loved doing. I had a very defining
moment. Another defining moment of my career was in May of 2005. One of our police officers, May 10th,
in fact, just had his 14th anniversary. An officer named David Duryberry was shot and killed on a
traffic stop. And my squad was on call. And we worked for 53 straight hours to apprehend the two
suspects involved. Probably the proudest week of my career. One of the driver got 27 years, the
18-year-old passenger who shot and killed our officer got the death penalty. But it took its
toll on all of us working those kind of hours. And for me, with my eyesight, it was very detrimental.
And that was kind of when I realized, all right, you're not going to be able to do
the job the way you wanted to. And even though I could shoot my gun again,
I could not qualify with it because the time requirements, which are incredibly important,
were not something I was able to achieve. So that kind of started my thought process of,
maybe it's time. And so in August of 2006, five and a half years after my accident,
I did decide to retire from law enforcement. And again, not a decision that I regret at all.
I went a long way in my health and better taking care of myself and I wouldn't trade places with
who I am and what I'm doing. Yeah. I think it's a great decision. I had a gentleman, Drew Stokes,
who was shot actually just going to Publix and getting some food for some refugees that they
brought back from Puerto Rico. I think it was during one of the storms. And some just lunatic
kid decided he wanted to kill a cop that day, shot Drew five times. He died on the operating
theater. Just kind of like you really, a very passionate doctor refused to call it basically,
and they actually got him back in the end. But he returned to duty. And the same kind of thing is
people don't realize the effect that this job has on the healthy human body, the undamaged human
body. So when you then got trauma and you need that rest, you need that recovery, you need that
sleep, there's definitely that kind of critical point where I think a lot of people realize,
okay, even though my drive and passion is there, the self care element has to take over. Right.
Right. Well, speaking of the accidents, I want to touch on this because it's a very,
you know, obviously important part of the story too. So the actual injuries that occurred to you
were from the fire. And as you said, there was a history of this happening over and over again,
with the same vehicle that appeared to have not being addressed by the manufacturer of Ford.
So kind of like Jay with ATF, you ended up taking on that giant. So if you want to just
kind of tell us about that and the success that you guys had.
Yeah, that was another big part of my motivation in accepting what had happened to me, who I was
and a new purpose in life. I had two angles to this. First was the taxi industry here in Arizona
was just a disaster back then. You could spray paint your cell phone number on the side of your
car and call yourself a taxi, which was ridiculous. And I don't like to get into the politics of
things, but the guy who should not have been here should not have been driving and certainly
should not have had a taxi company. So worked on getting that regulated, was very successful,
and it's a much better situation here in the valley where I live. But on the Ford Crown
Victoria side, we were kind of ground zero here in Arizona. In the span of four years, we lost two
state troopers. One crew, Skip Fink, in 98 and 2000 had my accident. And then a year later,
in 2002, Officer Rob Nielsen from Chandler, all farmed to death. At the time of my accident,
I think 12 officers currently offers a 33. And again, I'm the one who gets a fire truck
in an intersection. And we can sit and speculate all day as to why and God's plan and whatever you
want to, however you choose to believe and live your life. These are unanswerable questions. The
fact is, I got a fire truck in my intersection, and I got to go home to my family and nobody
is going to tell me that those other individuals did not deserve that same opportunity. So I went
to work on being an advocate and trying to get the safety of these cars worked on. And I had a great
lawyer who worked on a lot of these cases and testified in a lot of different places, testified
in front of the New York State Senate after they lost the state trooper, of course had my own
lawsuit and did take on Ford. We had a lot of companies step up and say, we're going to
build things. If Ford doesn't want to help, we're going to build things to retrofit these cars with
fuel bladders or fire suppression systems surrounding the gas tanks. And then fast forward,
Ford put make the crowd make in 2011. The accidents are definitely decreasing. Eventually,
those cars will be completely off of the road. So that is my advocacy for that. Not only selflessly,
but a long way in my recovery process because he gave me a purpose. It gave me a mission in life.
But all these years later, I'm very proud that I didn't just go and hide. I didn't just hide my
burned and disfigured face. I'm trying to honor the people who did not get a fire truck in their
intersection. So that was something that's very special and very important to me.
Yeah. Well, like you said with the homicide, you're speaking for the dead, you're honoring
all those people. And that's the worst thing we can do is lose someone and not do something about
it. Not stop it from happening again. Yeah, not something about it. If somebody has already
sacrificed, let it not be named. Please, just make something out of it. It's already happened. I
can't change that. I can't bring those people back. And I can't put a fire truck in the intersection,
but I can damn sure honor their legacy and their names and talk about them. Because when you see
my face, it's kind of unforgettable. It's easy to talk about somebody who's dead because they're
not here. They're just, they're in a plot somewhere with a gravestone and their family is long
forgotten. You're not going to forget. When I talk about them and you're staring at my face,
then you know what they went through and you know that they weren't as lucky as me. So
I'd love to honor those guys. Yeah. And I think that's the same even with the non-traumatic side.
Just what I'm seeing in fire specifically is cancer, heart disease, suicide. And we're saying
the same in law enforcement. Those people are dying in lion engraves too. And how many of those
are preventable just because of the working hours and the organizational stress and some of these
other areas that really feed into the ill health of the men and women we work alongside.
Yeah, I think that's exactly right. Right. Well, speaking of ill health, you mentioned that you
lost your father and I saw that you coupled with Serenity Hospice. I had an amazing man, Dr. BJ
Miller, who was a triple amputee. He'd actually as a student stood on top of a like a tram car in
San Francisco and not trying to do anything crazy, but actually arced through his wristwatch and he
lost two legs and one of his arms. And he became a hospice and palliative care doctor. And that's an
area that we don't talk about very much. So what was your experience with hospice and what do you
want to tell the world about that area? Because it really doesn't get much positive airtime.
No, it doesn't. Hospice is a word that people don't like to use. And in fact, that's the
meeting I'm going to next. I do work for Serenity Hospice here in Arizona. I'm going to give a talk
to some folks at a care facility. And I, again, like I mentioned earlier, spent my life pretty
lucky. I didn't experience death in my family. My dad got diagnosed with a very
aggressive, devastating form of cancer and entered into the hospice process.
And I got to learn about it. And it was truly, wow, just the most beautiful experience that I had
ever known to be a son, only to be grateful to see him with peace and comfort in what hospice did for
me and my family. There should not be this bad stigma around hospice. It's not about going to
the vet and being put to sleep like an animal. It is truly about comfort and care and compassion.
And so now I love to share my story and what I got out of it, because even though I lost my dad,
I was grateful that I had him for as long as I did in my late 40s. And I hope that we're all
lucky enough to get to that point and make those decisions. And I know that he was proud to not
let us suffer any more than we needed to. He was not suffering. And I'm just a big believer in
hospice. I think everybody should learn about it. And if you are lucky enough to make those choices,
you should really educate yourself on it, because we're all headed to the same place, right? We are
certainly all going to die. That's just the permanent fact of part of living this life. So
love hospice. And I would say what I hope is my third and final calling. I had the
becoming a police officer. I had why I became a public speaker. And now I have what I'm doing with
hospice. And I think my meter of hope is going to be in the future. And I think that's going to be
run as full on on callings. I'm good. Yeah, I was like you were talking earlier before we start
recording with the nonprofit. I mean, you've got to focus on the areas you're going to make
the biggest difference. And sometimes it seems like you're really going to be able to drive
something forward. And you realize, well, actually, it's more efficient just to do it another way. And
that takes me to the podcast. So I find the podcast such a great medium. And people have said to me,
Oh, have you ever thought about speaking? I'm firstly, no, because I invite all these great
people on my show. I don't pretend that I'm I'm a great mind. But secondly, you know, it gets
downloaded thousands of times. Imagine trying to fill a hole with that many people. So this is such
a great efficient medium to get amazing men and women's stories out there. Right? Yeah, it's
beautiful. I love I mean, mine's on a much finer, more minor scale, but I'm just trying to change
the dialogue. It's called badge boys. And the positiveness of law enforcement tell a lot of
great stories. I'm very new into it. But I just love it. And I thank you for what you're doing.
You have some incredible guests. I love following you on social media. I love how you
highlight your family. I love your, your vulnerability and your humility. And I think
I think you're going to make a lot of great impact on this world. So I hope you don't let
anything deter you from the direction you're headed right now. That's all a facade. I'm really
an asshole. Is your wife listening right now? Is that what you're saying?
So well, speaking of great stories, I want to make sure we mentioned before because my closing
questions ask about other people's books, but Burning Shield, an incredibly well written book,
I mean, your story is powerful, but the way that he brings in all the other stories to kind of,
you know, literally collide at the same time. And then you know, obviously the ripple effect
of after so tell me, you know, what, what made you decide to finally put your story on paper or get
someone to put it on paper and then the effect that the book has had since you wrote it?
Well, I definitely not something I decided I never would have even dreamt of having my story in a
book, but I was approached a long time ago by a guy that I'm dear friends with, who's an excellent
writer. And he started to write my book, and then got a job offer that he couldn't refuse. And of
course, I don't at all disrespect anybody for veteran themselves. And so he let the project go,
I had somebody else do it and it turned out to be just terrible. I could have never put it out there.
And another year, a few years go by and I'm introduced to Landon Napoleon. And he is just
an amazing writer, amazing individual. And what I love is that he took the time knowing that I
didn't have the full understanding and perspective of what took place. I was asleep for the actual
accident. I was in a coma for so long. He took the time to go and interview everybody and get their
exact versions and perspectives and stories and understand the that to tell this story, you got
to capture all the voices and he did that. And I'm so proud of this book. I love it. It's been out
since 2014. It'll be a legacy for my kids, something I'm very, very proud of. And while I'm
still very humbled every time I see the cover of it or I autograph one for somebody, I kind of giggle
thinking, are you kidding me? You're facing a story or a book, but I am very, very proud.
Yeah. Well, it kind of made me think when I think again, one of the other interviews I was listening
to, but people gravitate towards this, you know, Eagle Rise and all the men and women that you
speak with. I think the reason for the success is people truly want to hear that because our,
and I'm doing air quotes now, leaders that we have in the world are basically far from that,
most of them, as we all know. So people like you and all the other people that had on the show and,
you know, the great people that you see on the positive social media channels, you know, they,
people draw, that's why they go viral because people want to be inspired and they want to be
led or, you know, led is the wrong word, but inspired by people who have walked the walk.
And I think that's what, you know, obviously your book is so important and Jay's book and all these
other people that have either, you know, made documentaries or books or whatever it is,
is it's a way for us to circumnavigate all the bullshit, all the white noise, all the politics,
all the red tape in our organizations and get to the source and tap into some true inspiration
and learn and cry and laugh. And then at the end of it,
walk out their front door and hopefully be inspired to be a better human themselves.
Could not agree more. That is perfectly well said. And I'm glad you got to know some of the
guys from Eagle Rise. They inspire me. I wear their shirts all the time. Jay Dobbins is a
very dear friend of mine. You've spoken to him. You understand his life. His books are just
crazy good. Jason Redman is I literally wear his shirts four out of seven days a week because I
just feel like a better person wearing his shirts, knowing what he's gone through. Tim Brown, who
survived the class of the South Tower and Josh Mott, some of these other guys, their stories.
That's what people need to hear. And you're right, our so-called leaders right now,
they haven't been through that and they don't truly believe in passing on the genuine
human spirit, the fight that is within all of us. And I hope that our stories continue to get bigger
and more widespread because that's what's going to improve this world and make it better for
our kids and our grandkids. Absolutely. Well, I've got Josh Mantz coming on early next month. I'm
connected with Jason. I'm hoping I'm going to be able to get him on as well. Oh, you're going to
love it. Let me tell you. Is Tim Brown a firefighter or is he a civilian? He is a civilian now,
but you're definitely, I don't want to talk to him that he's incredible. You can easily get him on
your podcast. He is very open about his story. He had a great career going and had a great
career. He had rose up to the ranks. He was working for Rudy Giuliani at the time in the building next
to the World Trade Centers in there in a shirt and tie. And of course, when the first crash hit,
just being a firefighter, he ran and grabbed his bumblebee. You know how those New Yorkers look,
their bumblebee outfit. And there's a short clip on YouTube you can find. It's about 70 seconds
that shows Tim walking into the tower. And the story, I don't want to give it away, but the
story that he tells from his point of view is truly remarkable. Talking about firefighters walking
out and simply saying, hey, it's the last time I'm going to see you. If you make it out, make
sure you tell my wife and kids I love them. And they just calmly went up the stairs. It's one of
the more moving things. And Tim is the one guy, I'm very inspired by Jay Dobbins, Jason Redmond,
good friends of mine. Tim Brown is the one guy when I am in the same room as him. I just can't
describe what it feels like. So do your best to get him on the show because his story and the way
he tells it, you are going to be a better person and your listeners will go absolutely crazy over
what he has to say. Beautiful. Well, one of my questions is always, is there a guess? We'll
consider that one answer then. Tim Brown, well, you've already had Jay, Tim Brown and Jason
Redmond. I mean, Jason Redmond's story is just remarkable. What he's doing now is phenomenal.
He's the leader of Eagle Rise and his wife created it. And you're definitely going to want to talk
to him too. But you're going to like Josh. Let me tell you his story. He's got and this I will not
give away. But to this day, of the hundreds of speakers I've heard, his opening line when he
walks on stage is the single best opening line I've ever heard. And it makes everybody sit up in
their chair thinking, I can't wait to hear the rest of what this guy has to say. So make sure you
find one of his speeches or have him tell you what it is because it will
probably make you speechless. I'm glad you got him on. I can't wait to hear that.
Brilliant. I can't wait either. So thank you so much for those. So question, we talked about your
book. Are there other books that you love to recommend to people? Can be what we've talked
about today or something completely different? No, it's what we've talked about today. I am very
moved by people who have gone through adversity and I love the military and stuff like that. So
Jay's books, firstly, I think Catching Hell, No Angels Wonderful, Catching Hell, you cannot put
it down. Jason Redman's book, The Trident and the new book that I just read, Can't Hurt Me by David
Goggins. That guy, do you know who he is? He's coming on. Just waiting for a date. But sometime
this year, he's coming on. They said that this is one of the few podcasts he's going to do,
which is awesome. Well, he is widely regarded as probably the most motivational person currently
in the United States. Just his attitude and the way he has grown things, the way he talks,
he will pull no punches. He will not be completely politically correct. He will not shy away from
giving you a few cuss words. You're going to love talking to him. But his book,
and only because it's very fresh in my mind, Can't Hurt Me, you can't not be a better person
after you read this book. So I would encourage your readers, especially now that you're going
to have him, make sure that you advertise the hell out of that and get them to read it because
it's the best. Oh, I will. I read it myself. Actually, I listened to the audiobook and the
guy did an incredible job, but I almost wish that David had read it because when he's talking,
like you said, he's so colorful in his language. Oh my god, he's great. I really wish he was the
one narrating it, but they do an excellent job. They find the next best thing. No question.
Exactly. All right. So the same question, but a movie and or a documentary that you love.
Wow. Well, my favorite movie ever I can tell you is Shawshank Redemption and has been for a
very long time. I just love everything about that movie. Tombstone. I like
movies that leave me with one-liners and filled with humor. Lone Survivor, my biggest favorite.
My biggest big Marcus Luttrell fan and his book did a lot for me when it first came out.
Documentaries. You know, the documentaries I watch will be more like about animals. I do like Deep
Undercover on Netflix. Jay Doven's three of his undercover operations are profiled on that and
I like to learn about and to watch what I'm a cop and I'm sitting here going, I couldn't have done
that. It's so crazy. So those are the kind of things that I'm more geared toward. And I spend
a lot of time though on YouTube just watching other motivational videos, motivational talks or
talks or listening to the music that brings me into whatever emotion I'm, whether I'm going to
do a speech, I have a certain playlist and a certain group of songs and I'll listen to right
before or if there's other days when I need to feel something else, music is kind of everything
to me. So that's about the best I could do for you on that. All right. When you say I need to
feel something else, do you ever use music to induce tears to get that out of your system?
Because I used to a lot. I do. I very much do. I think music can move our souls and our emotions
unlike anything else. I've always felt that way. I've always been an old soul. I grew up in the
80s with all the hair bands and the rock and maybe not the deepest of lyrics but anthems and things
that I could get into it. I'll still go back to some of those if I need to go back to those times.
I need that timestamp to be standing on again. But I'm an old school country guy. I still love
country music. And the way I look at music, sometimes you want to be in the pain. Sometimes
you need to be in the pain. And there are certain songs that can put you there. And if, yeah, if you
need to get some emotions out, whether it's anger, whether it's tears, whether it's a dark sadness
that maybe you don't want to just call your best friend or you're certainly not going to go tell
your kids, hey, I'm going to put this on you today. No, when you're alone, you put a certain song on,
you can get in that emotion. And I always find myself, that's what starts the healing process.
I'll get into there for three or four minutes, or four or five songs, 15 minutes, and then it
strongly improves my day. So I love how you put that because I very much agree with you on that.
Brilliant. And I've heard you mentioned about your love of dogs as well. I have a dog, it's funny,
it's a kind of irony that we used to have dogs in fire stations. They got rid of them. And now all
of a sudden people are really, oh, dogs are actually good for therapy. So maybe we should
have a dog in the fire station. But the same thing, do you use that as a tool is the wrong word,
but do you find the therapeutic effect of having dogs around as well?
More than you can imagine. I grew up always wanting a golden retriever, never got one as a kid.
And my wife bought one while I was in the hospital. Once it was known that I was going to come home,
turned out that he was born on the day of my accident. Again, irony all over the place.
And I had him for 14 and a half years. Currently I have three dogs that I, the unconditional love
of the dog, people might joke about it or talk about it, but it's very true. My dogs, they don't
care who I am, what kind of day I've had. I go on a trip for two or three days. I come home and enjoy
at night when I'm in here watching TV, they are just right next to me all the time. And they bring
me nothing but happiness. So yeah, I'm a big, big lover, believer in dogs and what they can do for
you therapeutically and for your heart and soul.
Beautiful. All right. Well, I got very one last question, a kind of extension of that really,
before we talk about where we can find you in the book. Is there anything else that you do now to
decompress? To decompress. Well, believe it or not, traveling, spending a lot of time on airplanes
and doing my public speaking, that is my decompression. That is my sanctuary. That's
where I want to be. I want to be on stage. I want to be sharing my story. And then I love
getting on airplanes or whether it's just turning off my phone and being left the hell alone for
four hours or if it's watching a movie, reading a book. That's all something I enjoy, very
therapeutic. My youngest son is just finishing his sophomore year and he's having a pretty
successful run at baseball. He has a dream of playing college baseball and he was blessed with
some pretty good talent and a very good work ethic. So I find being at the field with him,
being at his practices, knowing that it's going to come to an end in a couple of years, that is very
much my happy place to do that. So I have it kind of all around. I don't have to do anything
every day that is ever like, oh, I don't want to do this. The alarm clock going off does not ever
erase my smile. It's like, all right, today's a new day. Let's go. Beautiful. Again, that gratitude
playing in, that's a key theme. Yes, indeed. All right. Well, so before I say thank you and sign
off, where can people find you if they want to reach out to you, if they want to get you to speak
and then where can they find the book? The book is on Amazon and Barnes & Noble. It's called
Burning Shield. My website is burningshield.com and it will have the video that you mentioned
that is pretty powerful. It gives an indication as to what I went through, what I'm going to talk
about, has some testimonials, a lot of pictures. And my email, my direct email is on there as well
as you can contact Equal Rise Speakers, Erica and Jason Redmond. They run it and I'm on their website.
So finding me, getting hold of me, asking me to do speeches is incredibly easy. I'm all over the place
on social media. I love Instagram and Twitter and my last name. While I'm glad that it's not just a
normal name, it's unique and easy to remember, but it's hard to spell. And so my Twitter and Instagram
that I do a lot of is Shekterly, S-C-H-E-C-H-T-E-R-L-E underscore Jace, J-A-S. And I stay very involved
on those. So I'm easy to get a hold of and I answer all my own stuff. You send me a message
or an email and you're going to hear directly from me. I don't have anybody else taking care of that.
Well, Jason, I just want to say thank you so much. I know that it's great that you
love to tell your story and that's beautiful. And I hope we were able to kind of tease some
different things out in this conversation. But I know it's going to be inspirational to people.
And like you said, I think in different ways instead of, oh, this person went through this,
but more the human element and using that as inspiration, not comparison.
Yeah. I think it's going to be awesome. And I look forward to hearing it. I appreciate all
your time today. And I love the way this conversation went. It means a lot to me.
I think you're doing some wonderful things and look forward to being out. So make sure you tag me
and everything when it comes out so I can jump on and listen.