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Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast. As always, my name is James Gearing and this week it is my absolute honor to welcome on the show strength and conditioning coach Brandon Holder.
Now in this conversation, we discuss a host of topics from his journey into the world of coaching, performance versus longevity in our youth athletes,
his transition into training tactical athletes, programming, sleep deprivation, beaver fit equipment and so much more.
Now before we get to this incredible conversation, as I say every week, please just take a moment.
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So with that being said, I introduce to you Brandon Holder. Enjoy.
Well, Brandon, I want to start by saying two things. Firstly, thank you to our mutual friend Dan Cohen from Beaver Fit connecting us in the first place.
And secondly, I wanted to welcome you onto the Behind the Shield podcast today.
I appreciate it. It's a pleasure to be here having me on.
So where on planet Earth we finding you this afternoon?
I'm on planet Earth right now. I'm in a office in Northern Virginia.
So it's about an hour or so outside DC, kind of finishing up my workday.
Brilliant. Well, I would have to start at the very beginning of your timeline obviously will progress to why you're sitting in that chair now.
So tell me where you were born and tell me a little bit about your family dynamic, what your parents did, how many siblings.
So I was actually born in Howard County, Maryland. I didn't really grow up or spend any time in Maryland to pretty much moved and lived in Winchester, Virginia, which is a small town, basically right at the tip of Virginia and been there my whole life.
I even live there basically right outside there currently.
I have no siblings. So growing up.
I don't want to say I was a mistake child, but I was a surprise child. My folks were a little older when they had me and definitely that dynamic did affect a lot of things.
My father worked for the University of Maryland and basically traveled for work, gone Monday through Friday and kind of seeing that growing up.
That, yes, work ethic, but you don't really understand as much as a kid. And that's kind of what, you know, honestly, I had a lot of time to myself not having siblings and not having, you know, him around as much so did a lot of rambunctious, you know, kid shit that you get into that boys will do and stuff and and that honestly led to me just getting into things like martial arts, wrestling, weightlifting, eventually, and all of that.
Because, you know, when he would come home working, he was a machinist, an engineer working, you know, Monday through Friday driving a few hours to work, you know, you don't want to play with your kid. You're exhausted. You're tired.
So kind of had to find ways to keep myself preoccupied and busy.
What which martial arts did you do?
Mostly wrestling like when I was a kid, they did put me in a jiu jitsu a little bit, a little bit of even judo very briefly, but mostly just like the grappling like I got into wrestling pretty heavy in middle school.
I was terrible.
Absolutely horrible. By the time I graduated high school I was mediocre, especially out in Virginia, a lot of country boys out there that you know grew up wrestling and whatnot.
It came a little late to the party, but it was definitely very humbling and I think something like, especially all like young men should experience, you know, it's kind of shit head at times and kind of kept that definitely put me on a straight and narrow, something positive to kind of look forward to and build off of.
I forget who said it may be one of the Gracies, but they absolutely right. If every child did martial arts, you know, jiu jitsu, wrestling, whatever it was, then most bullying would go away.
And I don't think they're saying because kids would be able to defend themselves. It's actually the bully themselves. It's constantly humbled and you know learning camaraderie and respect and ethics in the martial arts arena, then it kind of squeezes the bully out of them.
Yeah, I completely agree but ironically enough I got into that kind of stuff because I was getting bullied I was a smaller kid.
When I say bullied I mean I'm not terribly old but like I was still the generation that like, I would like, you know, get my ass kicked.
Some of it was mine, my own fault, some of it maybe you know wasn't warranted but you know you learn real quick to not run your mouth or disrespectful if you can't back it up, but I kind of got me into that because I was a smaller, you know, smaller frame
that I got picked on so I was like well there are options, you know, things to do to basically try to prevent that and then it's always a lot bigger than that when you start to get into it you know you get into it because you think you're going to be
learning to defend yourself you know be, you know, Johnny badass, maybe get girls and then eventually is all the real life lessons and stuff you kind of grasp from it.
So I'm extremely happy how everything worked out, but that was the long term.
I think I shared, I think it was this morning, a video and I forget which football team it was but it was a fan, I'm using air quotes, a football fan that after a game, I think they'd lost maybe I forget but anyway, he and a couple of his friends kind of track
down some fans that were on their own that weren't looking for trouble and basically not one guy out beat the other guy out.
Anyway, the internet came together, if this is the story kind of got legs, and the internet came together they they found out who he was, and they kind of told this story.
And in the end he lost his job. He's actually the file criminal charges against him. And it was all because a community of people stood against the bully.
And it was such a great story because this is what you know you see or you need to see now and I've said this to my son, like don't mono mono like you know, put up your juke street fight if you see someone getting bullied, be the person to rally everyone around
and go look, we need to stop this, come help me, you know, lift this car off this person, whatever it is but a lot of people they need is is just a kind of a gentle nudge in the right direction.
And the mob mentality can actually be a very good thing and it was really great to see this group of you know people online come together and call this piece of shit out and ultimately you know he's going to have his behavior modified now after being publicly
shamed.
That's awesome. Yeah, I did see the video. I didn't see the, like the consequences that he suffered which is awesome to hear, because that's it should be.
And it can't even go back to like what you were saying a moment ago about the Gracie quote, or the mindset behind that, I mean, I've been fortunate to work with and know some very, you know, I mean dangerous in a good way, men and women.
And it's always that they are usually the most respectful, the most humble, the most, you know, the kindest if you will and usually the one, the bully like that gentleman that situation is usually the most vulnerable and the, you know, piece of shit no other way to call it.
Yeah. Yeah. And again, if you're really empathetic, hopefully you can get that person to figure out what it was in his past that created that side of him and get him healing and then he becomes a kind person you know that's the ultimate goal but this you know initial
thing obviously he needs to be, he needs to be stopped in his tracks first before he maybe will look in the mirror and go, the way I'm living my life isn't working.
Yeah, totally.
All right, well then speaking of, I guess just that entire dynamic.
You mentioned about your dad being gone a lot.
It's interesting after all these interviews that I've done when a parent isn't there it could be a foster adoption situation it could be someone's you know lost to addiction or even prison, or it could simply be the latch key generation where the, the parents you know, they're
not the best that they can but they're just gone because you know they're trying to earn a living, but that obviously has an impact on the child to. When you look back now, was there an impact of not having that father figure and then were there any kind of mentor figures
that became you know that missing piece for you that put you on the right track.
I look back, like, much more often now. So, I don't know how much to share on here but recently I had a child, so she's eight months old and my father actually passed away.
That was actually about a year ago, almost to this day actually. So that I mean causes you to reflect a lot and now that I'm a father to look at things and it's not to always compare and contrast because that's, you know, there's never going to be really anything positive come out
of it, but it kind of just like put things in perspective. So, it did you know effect effect me and I did have, I was very fortunate I had very good mentors growing up. I had my, my youth wrestling coach was a fantastic mentor and he definitely, you know he,
he put hard work over, maybe accolades that you know I wasn't going to get because I told you it was not very good to start out but you know we kind of praise the little things to build off of. And then when I was about
teenager about 16 or so I started getting to weightlifting pretty heavily. And I had a great powerlifting gym that would work out of, and it was like these were men's men, if you will, you know what I mean.
I mean they were just people the day but when you're 16 years old and you walk into a gym and it's a bunch of bald guys with tattoos listening to like metal music, you're kind of taking a back.
Again though some of the nicest guys that I've ever, ever met. So keep in contact to most of them to this day.
And that definitely put a big impact on me as well because it kind of showed me. I don't know what true like, cliche but like what true toughness was like what's like they were all good fathers are all good people.
You know it was a positive light for a male figure, compared to what I could have been kind of seeing so those two things kind of stick out that I think of a lot.
And just because, you know, even, even in previous situations if I've ever, if I've ever been fortunate enough to pass down like knowledge or try to help someone else in a similar situation.
You know I'll look back and be like well damn that was something that you know so and so showed me that was something you know he showed me and try to keep that that ball rolling of just, you know, some kind of positivity, not only just in the field but just kind of
in life in general. I mean I'm still figuring stuff out every day, especially being a new parent I still get frustrated and feel like I'm doing a horrible job like I'm sure everybody did it first but, you know, try to just learn cut myself some slack and, you know, get a little
better each day. So and I think those men definitely instilled that looking back.
I was just having a conversation with my son the reason I was driving back from Miami he had a volleyball tournament with a club that he's joined for this from now till Christmas.
And every time he looked up in each of his games I was sitting there. And I've said this on here before and this is not again you know poor me story at all but it just, it, it does make an impact.
I did martial arts and did numerous numerous competitions and won some national titles all kinds of stuff. My dad didn't have never saw me watch a single never watched a single tournament single fight.
And so that drove me to make sure that I was always going to be present for my son and not always always of course things come up life happens but most of the time be there.
So, you know, it's interesting. You look back it's not blaming but you just go okay I don't like the way that that felt. So as a dad, I'm going to do it this way instead has as your experiences as a young man shaped what you hope to be as a father moving on.
Definitely has and I find myself in similar situations as you like with as far as like remembering what I definitely did not like or what on. I don't think maybe had the most like effective or positive impact on me.
And I don't want to sit here like bash or anything like that because it was just different you know what I mean.
I, at the end of the day, like you said earlier I think they did my parents did the best they could and every generation should be a little better for their, their, their kids certainly in just being more involved in general, similar situation like
when I as I got older I don't think and this isn't a boohoo either like I turned out just fine we're doing, we're doing okay but I don't think, you know, I can remember one time, like one of my parents, my mother attended a football game.
And it was a big deal. You know what I mean like it didn't mean a lot but I definitely had more than just one football game and and plan to be a little more available and things like that because growing up.
Like that tell myself, even now my daughter like I'm working later something like that like I may justify it that while working for your family but at the end of the day like she doesn't care.
You know what I mean like she would probably rather me be home that would be more working for her and try to find that balance, if there is a balance for that, but I think that's definitely, definitely affected it a little more so.
And I'm sure again, I'm sure I'll make mistakes and and learn from it again I think it's also different.
I think having a daughter actually was referring a daughter over over a son secretly now secrets out but that could all just be in my head, you know, but growing up, you know, you think you do put that pressure on yourself like why I don't want to do like
what my father did and, you know, mess this kid up.
In regards to that I think it's almost a little better for me personally I think for that.
Again, this could be totally just all up here crazy.
You have experience you can let me know but that's that's kind of where I was with it.
Well I think, you know, we're going to talk about the tactical population and certainly the the fire service we talked when we spoke before the insane amount of hours and I'm trying to really be, you know, one of the pieces of the puzzle to push, getting them
more rest and recovery and we'll get into obviously the performance side of that too.
We I think our generation you know mine and previous and previous to that, you know, the currency was money, and this is why we're struggling, the ultimate currency is time with your family.
That should be driving everything and that one more overtime or I can get them a better Christmas present. As you said, they just want you home, they want you with that dance recital or simply to cuddle on the couch and watch, you know, wonder pets or whatever
the thing is those are the moments they'll remember not Oh, I remember when my dad made $400 working an overtime shift, you know, so I think this is what this latest generation the Gen Z's do very well and this is why there's this kind of misunderstanding with the
recruitment side.
It's not that most of them don't want to work, it's just that they value physical and mental health and they're looking at some of these professions and going you guys have lost your fucking mind.
And that's the way I'm doing this not being home with my family, you know, four days out of seven so I think that we as an older generation need to understand that, you know, the real currency has always been time with us with our children and our family.
Yeah, I agree and I think it's, there's always a there's always a lie, of course, because I think sometimes that time can be, you know, taken advantage of but I do think for the most part it's a good thing that people have value that and and a respect for your time as well.
Whereas I think the older generation would just, you know, put their head down and move forward and regardless of it don't be wrong there are definitely weeks that I'm in the middle of a week now that I'm going to have to do that kind of put my head down and just get through
that. They're far and few in between and I try to make it a more priority when I am home to just everything is off you know what I mean, phones off everything's off to focus on the family and try to do my best to do that my wife listens to this she's probably gonna be like he
doesn't.
He needs to work on that but yeah I think it's a good thing though personally, but again I get the everything you kind of go too far on the other side, and we don't want that I think there is the happy medium.
100% Well, speaking of careers, when you're in the school age what were you dreaming of becoming was it the fitness space or was there something else.
Honestly, it was the fitness space, so I wanted to be a strength and conditioning coach since I was in the seventh grade.
That I can remember that I want to do it as a job so I was of the generation that I used to go home and watch YouTube videos of like Joe DeFranco, Zach Ebanesh, those guys who were kind of popular on YouTube at the time just doing garage gym style workouts.
And I loved it, like I had my parents were supportive and the fact that like they're like you want to put gym equipment in the garage you can do so and actually not to backtrack too much but I found an old pair or old set of, I think it was, I'm not going to know the brand,
but it was like concrete weight plates, and like a little bar and you know would lift and I mean I would do that when you know when I was in probably like fifth grade or so like probably too young to be out there, not knowing what I'm doing just, you know, moving it around
and you know I would walk down to, you know, like the CVS, which was, you know, more than a few blocks away from my house and buy like muscle fitness magazines and stuff so I was pretty obsessed from a young age like in strength training and just like the culture
like I just, I don't look at but I'm just a meathead at heart.
So I knew at a pretty early age I wanted to do that. The thing with me though was like, I didn't know if that was like a feasible career. You know, I'm like, these guys I don't know. No, I don't know how they're doing and know how it works.
And I didn't really know about the collegiate side and all that because you're in middle school but yeah I used to sit in.
I used to go to Clay's English class, and like write workout programs, you know and just kind of think about like after school like I'm going to do this and my buddies would come to like my garage and we'd work out and it was probably like the worst things you can imagine
like it didn't, you know, if you look back from the textbook it's probably like, I'm surprised no one got a hernia but it definitely kind of set that passion.
But again, didn't know it was really a job so
you know at a school I'd looked at a lot of things look at the military a little bit actually failed my physical I blew my knee out wrestling my senior year, and kind of push my physical back and I had a really good army recruiter at the time, who kind of asked me
like what I wanted to do, and I told him that he was like, you know, we don't really have that job so you just go do that, you know, which I don't know how many recruiters would tell you that because they just want you to join but I appreciate that man saying that
and kind of just led from there.
You know no one in my family went to college so just figuring out the college route and I don't think that's always for everyone but in a strength coaches world you kind of have to go to college.
For the most part you don't have to but you kind of get my drift to go to those steps and it kind of just took off from there, and I've been in very fortunate I've kind of, you know, yes been the right place at the right time but also just busted my tail when I was in the
right time to keep that progression going for the career but yeah, I've always been very happy as far as like the blessing and a curse that I've always known what I want to do and I love what I do so like if you go to a party and your people complain about their job.
Yeah, every job is tough and you know there's, there's the bad days but you know even the bad days are still not that bad compared to what they could be the other people's good days so fortunate that but it's, it's that double side of the coin we're also since it's a hobby and it's what I like to do it's, it's always kind of present you know what I mean I don't really
know it's hard to turn off kind of deal like, even if I wasn't a strength coach even if I was an accountant or something in the future. I'd still really be in a strength conditioning and read up on it and, you know, follow it, etc. So, yeah, I've been lucky on that.
I did. Was it called sports science and fitness evaluation I think was the subject was the first part of my degree in England two year degree and then I finished at us not too long ago I still haven't got my diploma yet.
I was late paying the final final bill and I've still yet to get the piece of paper even though I have my degree.
But, and that was exercise physiology and I forget what the exact title was.
So, the first thing I did was I did a preparation from the UK and then the US.
Having been a coach and again I'm not the level you are but a memoir of a kind of weekend warrior coach slash athlete was that I was disappointed at the end that it didn't really prepare me to be a coach, and the only one that I think that was really a value was the one
that I was in classes one of the semesters was basically the prep for the CSCS. That was a phenomenal class. Absolutely amazing. But the rest of it I felt was very myopic very very lab focused and I felt there was a missed opportunity to really prepare a young
coach to then go into a tactical community a sporting community, and right off the bat, be able to start applying some of these principles. What was your experience with through the academic side specifically.
Yeah.
So when I was at I graduated from Bridgewater College. I, I basically had a weird role there were I in turn but then eventually I was a student assistant, which is a way to say we can't pay an assistant coach will pay this college student you know minimum wage or below to kind
of help out in the weight room. And I was able to get a lot of experience coaching actually on the floor.
I'll give a shot Brandon beach was the head straight condition coach there I believe he's like athletic director in Rhode Island now but I mean, I mean he saw that you know he made sure I was squared away and I actually took my CSCS when I was in school and passed it,
but you know you don't get it unless you have a college degree so I didn't technically have it. But yeah, he fought for me and I got a lot of experience, actually on the floor which for me was number one because not only did I get experience but also I felt like I was in a good
position because I learned really early on that like, I don't want to do this, like I don't want to do college strength and conditioning.
I'd rather try another sector, which I think is also very powerful like for people decide that they don't want to do something like I didn't want to go take an internship across the country and then decide like this isn't for me.
I don't think that's a, it just wouldn't have been a very good setup course. So, very early on I was like colleges and for me, I'll, you know, look at other kind of avenues for this kind of this field, but we had a very similar class where actually he taught
that class so you know my boss the head strength coach taught the.
It was, you know, is the CSCS prep class essentially, and he, I'm sure he got in trouble a few times from administration, but like you know he would have a textbook and he'd like this is what you need to know for the textbook, and then he'd like kind of this is what
the real world is like. I think they missed that completely because if you just go through a textbook I mean, I'm sure you see it the same thing when someone comes in or trains with you, you know they're real people you're working with they're not whatever
they're not like a family on paper, and you know, maybe they had a long night from, you know, whatever kids keeping them up work, things stressing them out maybe they have previous injuries you know they're not like these, these are these perfect scenarios,
you have to make adjustments on the fly and there's a lot of, you know, that's the art of coaching, you can call where you do have to make a lot of personal connections and things like that.
And you know we'll talk about it more that's kind of like about the tactical setting because it is just, you know, exercise is a tool that we're just using to kind of better people's lives we don't have to do you know exercise, x y or z to achieve that there's a lot of
tools we can use and find people kind of what they, they, they like to use yes there's some certain baselines we should always cover, you should do some kind of basic strength training we should do these basic movement patterns but you don't, you're not able, able or
wanting even to do, you know, x y z today like it doesn't, you know, we can accomplish it with another, another tool that we have. So as long as we can fill that I'm not about putting square pegs and round holes.
And I think that's what he really kind of pushed on us to kind of that real world application, which I don't think everyone in academia always wants to hear.
Because, you know, they're told they have to structure things a certain way and if it isn't that perfect structured way that you're kind of feeding that information to people.
You know, you're you're you're kind of missed they think you're missing out on it, you're not getting the full picture, but even today like by we the young man who interned with us here just took a CSCS and you know when I talked to him
about you know he has questions about it I told him like, you have to put for that test you have to put yourself in the perspective of what they want you to do like don't overanalyze it like think about the textbook answer and understand when you're on the floor
then.
Yes, that textbook answer, maybe it's accurate in some cases but a lot of times you're going to have to dig deeper into your back, kind of figure out what's actually help that person, and it could just be something up here for them you know mental block or something
like that.
I mean I'll work with a lot of officers who don't tell me they don't want to do you know they don't want to do this exercise because they saw someone blow their back out on Instagram to the exercise and like, that's the extreme like let's let's take a step back and kind
of talk about this some more so kind of getting to the root of that with it but I think they are missing a big chunk academia that is like in these classes were to help students also help students again, discover what they want to do, because it's not for everyone.
And if you can find that out earlier on, and that's better for you.
Absolutely. Yeah, it's funny with the Instagram thing, there's no one that goes on Instagram, I'm going to show you my 70% lift today. So you know that whatever they saw was probably 110 of what they could actually do safely and they fucked it up.
Yeah, or it was like something they just do just for that film.
Yeah, exactly. This whole program. And then this is like 1% of maybe like one point time to do every year they just want to show because it looks cool.
All right, well, when you you know you go through this kind of education journey then was it the youth athlete that you started working with that I see that on LinkedIn the kind of sports prep clinic.
Yeah, that's that's correct. So once I got done with, with Bridgewater College, I kind of moved back home and just kind of figuring things out.
I had some I interviewed for some college jobs but again kind of hearing just the lifestyle of those jobs like the pay and the, the hours work and I appreciated everybody.
I believe that I spoke to. They told me very, very straight up and very straightforward as far as like you're going to work this amount of hours it's way more than what's listed.
And you're unfortunately going to get this small stipend, and I appreciate the honesty exact led me to be like, this isn't for me, kind of move back home and was just getting the right place right time but, you know, definitely met the opportunity
to come around to work at a private setting, private sector gym in my hometown and started with youth athletes, and I think that was one of the biggest things that kind of helped my, my coaching career because genuinely I think if you can work with a group of
youth athletes and I'll consider youth athletes just for by listening.
You know we're talking middle school to high school age. I'll still talk about high school as the youth which I know not everyone does.
I know like summer camp stuff or like elementary age kids and stuff but that's more just, you know, it's fun it's just baseline stuff it's, I wouldn't always go you don't need to go too crazy into that.
But the amount of coaching experience you get and just the thought process that has to change with them from how you do things how you talk to them how you just operate on a day to day was huge for my development.
You know there's there's things that I use this no disrespect to any responders that I work with but there's things I would do with those youth athletes and I'll apply to my first responders.
Now when it comes to like teaching and things I don't talk to them like their kids of course but as far as a progression, because I'll get people come in that have never even looked at a weight before in their lives, and it's kind of finding you know getting
them rolling on that journey.
And you got a lot of reps doing that and you got a lot of just a wide array of people, you know different sizes shapes skill levels, things like that, and that just kind of skyrocket that because even in the college setting you kind of get that like I
worked with a lot of teams, but I don't say strange teams but a lot of not so common teams like I worked with equestrian. I worked with dance.
I worked with any team that anyone didn't want to work with. So if like someone was like, who's going to work with this team. I'll train them.
You know what I mean and that, you know, eventually got to like the freshman football and etc. But it just helped so much building more tools in my tool bag. So then if I would get to a person where, you know, maybe I don't have a lot of experience
with individual, or like maybe they're sport whatever their situation is. I don't. There's not a lot of specialization at that level I don't think I don't consider like it's people first and then kind of build from there.
But you know you just see a lot of different looks at people and you kind of eventually do kind of build a template of things you kind of go down that list.
And then from there, that's also when kind of stepped into more admin role. So I was like the director of one of the programs and just the day to day functioning of how a business should operate.
I think taught me a lot.
I don't really think a private setting is best for the tactical, at least the tactical setting that I'm in right now. Because yes, I get to train people I coach people on that's, that's a primary piece of my day, but those other pieces my day are things like, you know, sending
emails to try to build up our programs, sending out emails for educational things. It's almost like marketing, in a sense, if you will, in getting the people to use the resources, just because I think it's actually harder when people don't pay for the resources
because there's no skin in the game.
I try to explain to these people like first responders and skin in the game is your livelihood your, your life to be the to to aggressive but it's you know it's the truth.
And then sometimes that isn't even enough into it. So, people are sending are giving you a resource like their hard earned money. They're definitely more likely to kind of utilize that so it's just because we have all these free resources to to our officers
and our firefighters and so like they have to. They have to take a step or we have to get them take a step to utilize them. It's not just that. It's this thing that's built up and you know everybody's rushing through the door for you.
You still got to sell yourself and come there so that was honestly probably one of the best things for me in that role to kind of understand.
Going back to one of the interesting athletes that you taught, what were the idiosyncrasies and interesting elements of training the equestrian athlete.
The actual like workload, so they, they were like they were up. I think that was like a six AM group lift. They were, you know, of course very low training age, like a lot of these.
It was mostly females but we had some guys, a lot of these females and never strange train before. So getting them in the door for that, getting them to understand the importance was it was a big key in something for a younger coach like it showed me early on that
Oh, like everybody just doesn't want to come in here and like work out like this needs to be a means for an end to them like there needs to be a purpose for this why this is going to help you with the horse, etc.
And I think once we were able to build that relationship and establish it, you know, we just really got to moving forward that so that alone was like a big eye opening thing because I think when you're 20 21 year old coach and you hear equestrians coming in like the, I think a lot of folks would scoff
at me like why are they coming in.
But seeing the understanding them as well so trying to get out to the was fortunate enough to go out to the, the staples with them and see them ride horses and understand that, like the wear and tear on the body, how difficult it really is so like getting into their world was
the first thing that taught me that but I mean the, the actual training portion, just very basic off of it, we tried to 90% just basic or primary exercises some kind of squat hinge push pull some kind of carry, and then that 10%, you know, I would try to make that
connection with them like hey we're going to do this exercise because you guys told me that you need very strong low backs for a horseback ride, so we're going to make this and makes that connection.
And it kind of creates a little bit more by and it's still beneficial for them like I'm not doing anything crazy we're not sitting on physio balls and I'm pulling around like to simulate a horse but making we could do.
A specific you know, ab work for stabilization or some verse hypers and just kind of go over why we're doing it, but it's getting making the connection to them of like hey I respect your guys time.
Your students are very busy happy pride I want to be here, but like I'm not wasting your time because I don't waste my time. And we have a reason for it. And honestly it was like one of the funnest groups that I had the pleasure to work with it, especially at that time
because it was also so much there's so many of them. So, I don't know how many programs in schools or people still have the, like a question programs to work with.
But I would say like it definitely was eye opening to see how hard they worked and see, like I said, the difficulty actually goes into, because I'll tell you this, my ass can't ride a horse.
I can't do anything on a horse.
So, once we got that established early on I think we were good, good to go. But the training was pretty, pretty basic honestly outside that 10% of kind of things they would tell me that they experience or, or why they couldn't do a, a something executed on the horse
maybe as efficiently and a lot of it was upper back strength midsection strength is huge. And I think just kind of given those people what they, even if it's what they think they need, you know it's not hurting them in his benefit I think it just worked out really well.
The other day it's, this is just how I operated but it was more of a partnership, in a sense, especially now what I do it's definitely more partnership because if I just go in and I act like I'm the big bad wolf and start telling these, you know these officers
like, hey you need to do this or you need to do that because I said so like they're going to one they might kick my ass.
But secondly they're just going to like they don't have to do it you know they're going to tell me, you know, a place to go and you catch a lot more flies with honey. So that's kind of the mentality to have and even back then we try to have it to an extent, you know,
like, talk to me about what you think you need and then I'll explain how I kind of see it and I think that was a much more effective model coming forward with it. And there's definitely, definitely a good learning experience because if I would have went in and just
train them like football players, they, I don't think they would have honestly been through the first month.
And not if not against them if they don't work hard but would show that I don't take the interest in them and I'm, I'm not doing my service to them properly.
I rode growing up my dad was a horse vet, veterinary surgeon. And so again it was never a great writer I think I was destined to be a stunt man because I was a terrible writer but I can just hang on really well.
But I can remember my thighs burning kind of same as skiing. So there's a lot of being in that brace squat position a lot of you know and it's finite movements isn't it there's there's only a couple inches between being in the right position to take a jump and being the
wrong position and you end up outside the horse.
So there's a very small room for error and if there is error again it's not like, I mean there's a lot of dangerous sports out there but you're working with a very large animal.
So that's totally different error. Absolutely. Well I want to stay on the youth athlete for something that I always ask the coaches because I think it's very important a lot of people out there.
I'm the parent of an athlete right now a student athlete.
And the bottle preface with the been my kind of immigration story so I came over here, and it wasn't long when I moved here, and I started being around you know parents and learning about schools and sports, and I started hearing over and over again, these kind
of what I call the uncle Rico stories, I'd meet these guys, either side of 30 years old, usually deconditioned and I would have should have could have if it wasn't for my ACL my you know insert broken piece of the body here.
And I started thinking like what the hell are they doing to these kids. When they're in school, that there's so many broken adults littered around, you know, the country.
And then obviously I become a father and you know my son starts doing sports.
And I start to see the extreme level of performance that is squeezed out of these youth athletes.
And then as I get a little bit older a little bit wiser interview all these people on here I start to say okay what is, is there a blurring of the lines between winning a game versus the wellness and longevity of that child when they leave your school your college
or whatever it is. So what has been your observation of that performance versus wellness in the school or colleague or collegiate athlete space.
In the, I'll talk more on like the private sector side of it like in the collegiate side like I did work at a couple colleges but it was mostly like smaller division three schools, whereas like they are student athletes as in like actual students first like
they have other aspirations outside of sports like I'm sure it is be a much different beast at that division one collegiate level we did have the, you know, always the pleasure to work with some of those guys and girls.
Division one collegiate athletes in the private settings. I mean we were fortunate to work with a wide array of things and at that young at the younger levels like middle school high school.
I think it does come back, it does come on the parent of course because they're the ones ultimately making decisions and there's always the extreme scenarios of, you know, a dad or a mom even just kind of pushing their kid because maybe they're living through them.
Maybe they're, you know, trying to relive all their days through them and what they did but then again what you said, this is what broke them in the first place.
But I think majority of parents it comes down to, they just, they don't know what they don't know. So if a coach comes and tells them it's like hey, Johnny's needs to, you know, practice more.
He needs to do you know whatever 10 plus extra practice sessions for, you know, the month off of it well that's 10 times or an extra load I'm just making up numbers of course but these are things that I've seen.
And then looking at the coach. Some of that is, let's be real some of it is just a sales and that is not coming from a perspective of, they want what's best for that athlete, they're coming from perspective of they're trying to put food on their own table.
But loading more and more is not always the best answer even if it is coming from the perspective they want help off of it.
We were fortunate to try to work with some organizations as a whole and try to implement some, some, some strange training. When I say strange training could just be body weight, basic things off of that.
I always, I always had the thought and would tell parents like if your child, especially if they're in a contact sport and contact, contacts a lot of things like soccer is a contact sport, you're making pushing people you're falling, chances are high you're going to fall.
You should be in some kind of resistance training, you know, two, three times a week, and it doesn't have to overpower anything off of that. And it's literally just to be an insurance policy for your athlete because a lot of people don't see that the wellness side of it they're just looking at the very short term.
And I wouldn't want, I am going to put myself in a future perspective like looking at my own daughter, she does sports, like I don't want my daughter to be the best.
I think freshman whatever swimmer or softball player for that just that year and then she's, you know, broken or hates the sport posts like I want this to be a lifelong journey.
I think it's a long term athletic development model that people speak of like the long term portion is the most of us unfortunately aren't going to go pro, you know, we're going to have to have some kind of relationship with exercise and sport.
And I think that's a really important part of our career, and kind of doing in that way we're building up to it or doing it just a healthier way healthier mindset will kind of establish that the amount of people that I would meet by the time or that I would work with their freshman year.
I think that's a really important part of the sport, because the amount of pressure whether they put on themselves or others put on them was extremely high like we would have athletes go to make a college team, and they just mentally they would just kind of break and leave
because they just didn't have that love with the sport.
I think youth athletes like younger middle school age kids definitely elementary school kids play as many sports as you like, you know play for the right reasons.
And not only for the fact that yes you're going to be exposed to multiple moon patterns and exposed to all these athletic things that's great but you're going to be exposed to different people like different kids are really different, a different type of kid playing,
you know you football than there is soccer or baseball whatever it is so socially I think it's a really big deal for kids as well. I think that keeps you the love of the game there and again it doesn't everything doesn't have to be like this, all or non mentality,
like, I meet lots of baseball players who do specialize in baseball pitch at high levels but they do enjoy playing basketball on the weekends that it can be just that what people would think is like very small scale, but that guy playing basketball on the weekend
just shooting around, maybe is what's keeping him, you know, kind of as a mental breaker escape for him away from the baseball field, because it's just baseball year round.
So that's but then love it. So something physically can go something mentally you can also go from that I think, I think that's even the bigger picture off that wellness side of it, just pushing it too much too soon too quickly.
But physically I do think if your kids playing sports they should be in some kind of, you know, instructor led.
This world now so I've no dog in this fight from my selling perspective, they should be in some kind of, you know, professional strength training setting with that he's at these gyms that pop up these private gyms you know of course a good one but I think it will make a good
a good relationship with exercise long term.
My son asked me literally on the drive home. What is it about the way you were raised that made you still be fit now because I'm 50, and I still do jiu jitsu strength and conditioning and play football pickup game on Sundays.
I just love, you know, moving I love exercise I love, you know, suffering on certain days so I remind myself I'm not the world's biggest little bitch.
You know, so these all have a value and obviously it comes in on the back end of a career where lives were at stake so you know that was very important but I was looking back and you know and all my siblings, different versions of some smoke you know some some
their activity is horse riding and they live in one of them is in France so she's you know walking the dogs through the hills, but they all move. And the thing is, I was raised on a farm.
So movement was was key like you know we had to muck stables out and cat sheep and do all the things so that was the normal element so we never fell out of love of just moving and just playing and just being outside just, you know, interacting with other people.
And I think that's the danger of some of these programs is your your destroying the love of that by taking these kids at such an extreme and I watched an element of the scholarship conversation to.
I watched my son running and he was a good varsity track athlete you got sub five sophomore year. So he was doing well, but it was it we kept talking about scholarships and my tie you got to run if you enjoy running, don't run because of a scholarship.
If that's the case then you know and he ended up moving to volleyball in the end, but I found that as well so you've got this environment where yes they perform but you know what is the disservice you're doing to just simply enjoying it and if you go to, you know, used to be
at least in England when I was young you'd see, you know, lads playing you know men and women playing sports in the 30s 40s 50s they may not look like svelte athletes but they're still out there, you know rugby football cricket.
And what I saw here was more of a sudden stop, where again, you know you I, I played I was a varsity this, but now you know they, they struggle to even find the energy to go into a gym or not a member of a sport anymore, and it's a shame because
you know you're not that sport and if you didn't play at the level that you were chasing. Maybe you'd still love that you know maybe you play flag football now or softball but you'd still be out playing so I think all these are just interesting and you'll you guys are the
experts in this because you get to see the way it's done properly and the way it's done poorly by coaches and the way it's done poorly by parents living vicariously through their children.
Yeah, I would tell kids that I'd work out, train all the time like, you know, there's gonna be a time where you're no longer an athlete, like if you go, you know, just speaking from the strength training part when I'll be in the weight room with them if you go to a gym
from now, like, and you don't know what you're doing or you don't feel comfortable or, you know, you don't think you you could, you know, properly execute an exercise and I did a huge disservice to you like this is a lifelong thing and I do think there's
there's an aspect of fun. Just the other day we were, we were doing a training session and it's funny because you brought the farm, and you know we were doing like a wheelbarrow exercise like you know with the sleds that can be wheelbarrows and I was like you know back in the day people
would just do this. You know we have to simulate this now for for movement and things like we have to fake it. Back in the day was just part of it in that physical culture ingrained in you and I think having like, it's not a bad thing to have to enjoy I think what you're
doing especially with that especially with youth athletes because, again, I do think that sets a tone for like lifelong effects on it. I'm very grateful that I do talk to an athlete that I used to work with and reach out from time to time and just share stories of like hey I still
like workout I still lift weights and things like you showed me and extremely grateful because I think that goes a long way because I'm hoping they share that with their kid, one day, you know I'm hoping they can just keep building that and this, this lifelong journey.
But if you don't think if there's a level of enjoyment to it, you're not going to stick to it.
If you even just as an adult like I am not sure long distance running I still do cardio as an option but it's not going to be what I want to do on the weekends with my friends or with my wife as a way to kind of like release you know steam and do something physically
fun. Maybe that's something like soccer or something else would provide but it needs to be said it's okay to have have some fun from time to time in there, especially with the youth though.
They're too much the mold to lose that opportunity with them.
Another interesting common denominator when I'm interviewing all these coaches Jay Dawes is the last one I had on is over and over again, and is again, it's, it appears to be common sense as well but it's good to hear that it's actually being observed.
You see these kids that are you know, let's say baseball pitches for example it's a good example you know these kids are throwing and throwing and throwing then they're doing, you know, these camps or these extra things on the side then they're doing travel ball in the summer.
And you know you hear more often than not that you have shoulder issues and a lot of those you know times I guess in the way of them progressing.
But when I, when you look at the actual longevity and high performance of some of the world's best athletes it seems like over and over again the coaches to talk about the multi sport athlete ends up being a lot more resilient physically, but even from a performance
standpoint, what have you seen as far as that principle.
Yeah, most I mean every year if you watch the Olympics or the Super Bowl or any of those sports like I like it'll come out and you know you'll see how many multi sport athletes there were like I remember being in high school our football coach would recruit wrestlers for
like the line and stuff that's actually what got me into football I never played football growing up.
But our football coach would come and try to get wrestlers to play offensive line.
They would go to track to try to get you know the fast guys to play receivers and it was something that was still like really brought up and it was one of those things were like, was you weren't forced but you're forced like you need to do track in the, in the springtime
or you need to basically come to every football workout and those were horrible so track that's what you want to do.
And I think we've we've we've lost that a little bit but it definitely just from looking at an athletic perspective it builds more robust get said all the time so I hate using that that word but it builds more durability robustness, it builds more, you know, athletic
endurance to build off of some of the best athletes that I've ever worked with personally were one of the three either gymnasts dancers, I don't think dance gets near enough credit, especially like little little kids when they're dancing and get older be play out like team
organized sports, and then martial arts.
And at the time that like I'd have a high school kid come in and if I try to teach an exercise like here we're going to squat and so we do a squad or we're going to do a hinge, especially hinging at that level, very difficult to kind of teach that, you know, have the
situation of their hips to where their upper body is going to be in their spine. Any kid that would kind of just like nail that like first try. I'd always ask, you know, would you do growing up etc and it was always one of those three things.
I think like the most proficient athletes I'm not going to say they were the best at their sport I'm talking about strictly like health movement.
You know just proficiency as far as a training and movement on the field at the end of the day like if you play football, you still have to catch that football.
You know, you're probably the best mover in the world if you can't catch a football, you're brought you know you're kind of you're off that deal, but the best movers always had one of those big three, or it was again built up from time over time.
I mean, you can just look at basic things to like, at the end of the day like what do we see when we see track athletes is just speed development.
And I think that's all the time it was probably one of the worst business decisions, but long term, definitely a much better business decision is you know, I would tell them to put their kids in track in the springtime, and don't come to us and go go run track at your
at your high school it's best to get that when they're younger.
A little more open, definitely nervous systems a little more you know plasticity is a little better to develop and things like that but also just more open I think, like mentally and stuff like for kids you know we have a senior in high school who's
basically only been a pitcher his whole life and you try to get them out of that realm of pitching or pitching exercise like they don't want to hear it.
Like you know he knows way more than me you know he watched, you know, strong or whoever at the time, do a pitching exercise like that's what he needs to do.
And then basketball players the same thing like LeBron James did this thing I need to do this, you know, I'm only 17 and, you know, my genetics are anything like LeBron's but this is what I need to do to get better kind of off of it where it's, you know, you can
kind of go back a few years take that ball out of your hand, and maybe do another sport to build off the skill set you're already trying to do a basketball.
For example, you're going to be better off. You know there's there's things you don't get in certain sports that you can kind of develop with others mentioned the speed and track.
Again, all of our growing up football linemen would be wrestlers because you're getting into positions that are similar but it's you're getting in a lot of contact that you're getting in very physical positions where you have to move another person.
And today that transfers to that offensive linemen position. I don't think it's always a coincidence when you see that so it's kind of filling a gap physically, maybe some athletic qualities you don't get from the sport itself and pitcher is the easiest
position and sport to go at to, because it's, it's the same repetitive movement over and over another athletes you still got to move, get a hop off the ball, etc. But for the most part, you know, your position is the same pattern over and over and over again,
and that's what it is and maybe yeah maybe if you did play another sport you get a little more lateral quickness so you can get off that ball quicker, or just open yourself maybe to play another position if you want it to in the in the future.
So it's, that's something that, you know, it brings up things that we would tell parents all the time. And it's just give the kid a break, you know, playing, playing baseball year round, go do something else.
Absolutely well especially for their mental health for their physical health for their longevity I mean these are all important conversations that, like you said, we, these kids don't come with instructions we all do the best that we can do and we see on TV you
know, your kid should be the next to ever, you know, the next NFL NHL insert thingy here and some of us kind of get taken away especially if you know we either achieve that ourselves or didn't know and now we're really uncle uncle Rico in it, but
understanding the real costs you know that if you can forge, you know, the real love of play that may well transition to being the next Wayne Gretzky you don't know but if nothing else, your kids still playing in hockey leagues when he's 40, you nailed it, you absolutely nailed it.
Yeah, that's that's the investment, the investment in getting your child involved that I think is, is for the long term development of that your investment is not that you hope they become a professional.
That'd be a really poor investment to bank all your money on just statistically speaking of course, not to put anyone's dreams down. But again it's also just for doing what's right by your child, even if like they, it's cool if they have aspirations to be the best in
the world like you want that I'm not by any means sitting up here trying to like tell someone they shouldn't have goals and desires and like they shouldn't have that absolute drive.
You know what I mean is that's what makes the people who are playing those sports great and they need that but it's, it is having that that balance off it and understanding. So, and again, most of them are playing additional sports anyway so.
Absolutely. All right, well that's you know the the sporting community the youth sports community. Let's talk about my community now the the tactical athlete so how did you find yourself working with police department.
Short term version of it like I do I'd want to make a change to the tactical athletes, and I had actually got in working with their academy at first so I got a good academy experience which I think personally is a good transition getting into the tactical
world from a coaching perspective, because it is more controlled it's more, you know, you can have more periodized plans if you will, so debatable like you know you're going to have them for a certain period of time, you know, on these days and you and this is kind of
the long term goal the goal is to get them to graduation in one piece. So that's kind of how that that got the ball rolling was getting into the academy setting.
And if I'm just going to be be honest I don't always like bringing this up because it kind of can be taken the wrong way, but coaching is not the most lucrative career like if someone wants to.
If someone wanted to get into coaching for money it probably wouldn't make a lot of sense, but having the ability to just live like a normal life and have time with your family and, you know, be financially compensated appropriately for us, the tactical setting
has kind of been a good option for I think for a lot of coaches. So the huge boom with H2F you saw fire departments have been leading that charge.
A lot longer than police departments. Oh, I think a lot of police departments are going to be creating opportunity but to kind of just have that I always knew that if I was going to have, you know, I got married, had a child, etc.
I wasn't going to be able to keep doing the private sector lifestyle, because that is basically you could work any hour of the day, you know I'd work to 10 o'clock at night most nights and then right back to it in the morning like it just wasn't sustainable for multiple reasons
so I did you know, and it's a wild concept I think for coaches. I think I bring this up a lot but to you know coaches are one of those people that they like to brag about how many hours they work against the the pay they make so like I, you know, they love to wear that badge of honor
like I work you know 30 plus hours for no pay it was just ridiculous to me, it is changing of course, going back to the new generation where people are seeing that. And that's really what led to that and it was trying to get to a long term vision so I can't like, I don't want to lie and say that wasn't a piece of it because it is a huge piece and at first I felt guilty for that which you should not feel guilty about living a quality of life that's, you know, just, you know, above horrible.
But, you know, that was a big say into it and at the end of the day I want to make a difference and help people. I think a lot of first responders get into the world they're into because they want to make a difference.
For me personally I think I can make a difference through, you know, coaching and organizing exercise for people as weird as that may sound. That's how I feel I can make an impact on people.
To do it with the first responder community, do it with police officers, especially, you know, I'm very fortunate like love what I do because it's, you know, giving them I think what they need to, yes, get them ready for the streets but getting ready for that retirement and everything
else. So, kind of one thing just led from the other at the Academy and now I kind of, I'm the director of strength and conditioning out here and kind of oversee the, the department as a whole, which is a lot of moving pieces off of that, speaking on PDs, strictly, we are a joint program so fire department has their crew as well we work together and we're fortunate on that front of it to kind of work together pool resources, etc.
So, back to the Academy for a second, obviously you you haven't been there that long, but what are you hearing about the amount of candidates that were testing and coming through and the quality of candidates.
I'm not saying that the people that you're getting a poor quality but the, the amount that you got to choose from 1015 20 years ago versus where you are now and knowing that there is, you know, pretty pretty obvious recruitment crisis in a lot of the areas of the country.
Yeah, I mean we were fortunate, you know, the numbers are still positive like so getting, you know, a lot of recruits and whatnot but it's, it goes back to even like the youth thing like this.
People are not as physically active as before.
I think it stems a lot, I think it's a society issue like it stems a lot deeper than what any of us would like to imagine. So it just is a lot more educational teaching and just starting, taking a step back and understanding that you need to, you know, approach
your individuals differently and that's where I think it does come in play where you don't have to do any certain exercise I don't have to absolutely like destroy them or do this like it just giving them that that baseline of physical abilities to take in later on and to
work within the Academy. But yeah, I mean it's, it's kind of everywhere off of it, just seeing the decline in the physical culture in our communities and our society as a whole.
So keeping that in mind in the forefront, always first with anything. Anyone I work with, you know, remotely or things like that it's the same idea.
You know, even even before in the collegiate settings and stuff too but people may think they know to like workout training, appropriate but they don't always, I know.
So, if that makes sense. It's definitely definitely was shocked though.
Coming, coming into it and stuff.
I had it mentioned a few times now from people, you know that there's a larger amount of people that are deconditioned but they've also observed that the ones that are fit tend to be really really fit now this new generation because you've got such great strength and
conditioning, you know, conversations and coaching and even like you know CrossFit has evolved now I'd argue is a lot better than, you know, most of us were, were being exposed to, you know, unless you were a great coach already.
So what are you seeing as far as the that that fit group are you seeing a kind of high level of performance now.
Definitely, if individuals, it's a weird time because you have access to anything that you would like to pursue, you have access to so like there are people that have access to training programs and like I said CrossFit.
People bash on it and, you know, I have my own thoughts but at the end of the day it's been a huge driving force for our, you know, our field, training conditions as a whole like some people only associate certain exercises with CrossFit that that's how they learned it,
like they don't know this is a Olympic lifting exercise it's a sport in itself like that's CrossFit.
So it's done some great things in that and kind of give people other avenues to go down, but I definitely see the individuals that come in and are overly, you know, super prepared I don't say overly prepared but you know, more fitter and well prepared off of that
and some of it is they took the resources on their own and went into it.
Some of it is they went to other outside professionals for assistance and things of that nature. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
Even myself like I'll push people to do other types of exercise or reach out to other professionals because at the end of the day that's what's going to get them moving and prepared and that's that's key.
You always explain that that's kind of like with the mechanic, you know, I can change my tire and a pinch and change my own a pinch.
So I think if I need really funny a lot of help or something goes really wrong with my car, I'm gonna go to a professional, we should all be able to kind of, you know, internally scan our body understand like you know how to mobilize certain areas we saw the base of you know push ups body weight
movements, etc. But if I really wanted to get physically prepared in the best shape my life, I need to go to a professional to kind of guide me through that process.
Okay, well, just before we get into the actual kind of training of the tactical athlete. What is the backstory of having seemingly progressive, certainly conditioning program now and and and hiring professionals within the department itself.
Yes, I mean we're just trying to basically.
So I don't know how much I talk.
I'm not going to jump from the front off of that. So like it is a like I said joint program with us in our fire department out there. So we basically any resources that a first responder would need, we have to offer we're very fortunate very blessed to have, you know, dietitians
and we have athletics training staff physical therapy staff and trying to lead from the front and create this model of professionalism in the basically kind of what you would see in the professional sports world or division one collegiate world and apply to the first responder
a lot different, but just because logistics and stuff, but we're it's offered there and trying to just do what's best for our people. The end of the day that the people that we work with are, you know, they're our greatest resource and trying to tend to give back into that
and that sounds bad but give back into that so they're the most the best and well prepared they can be for their duties of course but also post duties and everything when they're done.
That's the biggest push that I try to make with our with our first responders.
The next story that was there resistance reason I'm asking this is a lot of a lot of departments really haven't bought into this concept yet they remain you know we'll talk about the work we can a little bit and rest and recovery of our first responders it illustrates the disconnect between their wellness and, you know, the bean counters.
Was there an incident was there a progressive leaders you know you know what that element was that made them turn the corner and become progressive in this area.
I'm not quite sure like the actual like a tipping point of it.
Like I said the fire departments across the country have been kind of leading that charge I think more more so than PD departments just from like having things available, regardless of what that may look like.
So it was one of those things where I think the, you know, the department I'm with really wanted to, to make that change and and kind of, you know, move forward and you know, kind of catch up if you will with some of that.
I don't know about any specific like actual, you know, vent or anything that occurred, they say we're fortunate that it was a joint program and they were kind of already leaving the charge, and it's kind of just finding what to work better for us to, you know, logistically
it's different, a PD department versus the FD department to kind of fill that that void off of it, but it is something like I said I think will start to change more is just mental health is a huge priority and it's definitely a huge priority.
For our department that we want to, you know, basically combine the two that physical and mental health are in one.
And I think once that conversation gets brought up to other agencies, it'll start to snowball effect for it. I don't think anybody thinks.
I think it's the only thing I think physical training is bad per se but it's just how, how are we going to do this, what's this going to look like. What's this going to entail, you know what I mean and I think if you can answer those questions.
I think it's a much easier process and sell for your department.
When you first kind of enter the department so you're not seeing young recruits hopefully many of which are trying to prepare and be, you know, in good condition for the physical rigors of a police academy or fire academy.
And now you get to the people on the line I'm going to preface this question with being very fair.
The environment that a lot of our first responders work in absolutely sets them up for failure, you know, their their hormones are destroyed you know their circadian rhythm is shot, you know that creates you know issues like weight gain all these other things so I'm put that out there first.
That being said, when you were faced with the workforce, were you pleasantly surprised were you shocked that there were, you know, there was more deconditioning than you would imagine in a police force what was your kind of perception you can, I mean, again, we've seen the smorgasbord of people in uniform from the elite athlete through to the other side so we know they exist but coming from training sporting athletes most of whom obviously are going to be in great shape already.
What was that shift? What was that lens for you?
So I was fortunate to work with a little bit of like police police officers specifically when I was still in the private sector some so I had a little bit of an understanding of kind of what I was getting into and in that situation you know you're getting the people who want to be better like they're coming to you.
So that's also important to keep in mind, like, you know, our job is to also help those officers who maybe not be interested in physical training or trying to better themselves from that perspective like those are the ones we need to reach, you know, there's a spectrum individuals you'll see.
So I kind of had that going in mind and I don't ever mean this by any disrespect to any first responder but at the end of the day, like first responders are essentially gen pop with above, you know, above average job requirements, and it's not to be disrespectful to them but it's you're at the end of day
of day fathers, mothers husbands why like you're just regular people, but you have a job which is going to require the extra extraordinary if you will. So I always kind of came in with that mindset so I don't want to say I've, you know, never been shocked by either side of the spectrum
good or maybe you know needs improvement.
I came in more on that setting of, I know what I'm getting into as far as that. And I've been, of course, pleasantly surprised with the dedication of people who do come to us who wants to see that improvement and whatnot, because it is coming from a perspective of proving
themselves for others, not just, you know, more aesthetic based reasons or things like that nature you know what I mean. It's always coming from a deeper, deeper root of it.
So, pleasantly surprised but yeah it was helpful to kind of work with some of the some officers beforehand to kind of get into that grasp and being in our academy it is being at the academy level it is different but you still kind of get a little bit of an idea of kind
of, kind of, you know, the lifestyles and things of that nature.
One of the things that I always struggled with when I was, you know, interacting with people who, as you said on the other side of the spectrum it didn't seem to really be invested in their own physical health and performance was simply the fact that lives depend on us, you know
now, you know, for a lot of us day to day, it's not really a life or death situation but it goes from zero to 100, you know, when we truly are and we don't get any warning you just told okay now that person's going to die if you're not fit strong, you know, agile, etc.
So, what amazes me is how that in itself isn't a strong enough why for everyone to be the best version now I said again, being fair they're in an environment that does not exactly encourage that a lot of them so a lot of the people that are in great shape is despite the
environment not because of it.
But that being said with that not being enough for many people and I still you know struggle to understand that when you wear a uniform. What are other wise that you tap into to try and get by and maybe some of the less motivated members of the force.
Family is a big one. We try to, and really this is the process of kind of prodding and in digging with that individual what's really going to get them going because I mean you're exactly right.
That should be enough to drive some people just the duties, etc. But it's not always so we try to go to family that like eat low hanging fruit.
And then if it has to be a, not like I don't call it a vain reason but if it has to be just like you feeling better, you sleeping better you know you, you know more internal things that they feel like we, you know, to go off of that as well.
There's lots of different things that will motivate an individual or get them to start that journey off of it. It is a unique scenario.
Of course, because of the duties and the expectations and, and what comes with the job, if you will, but if you have to dig a little deeper it's kind of just going down that list off of it and it's never a perfect checklist of people it's not like well this, if this
isn't kind of jazzing up it's this and then this and this it's kind of just exploring around the family is a big one just being around for it. That's what I say going always to like the retirement, because the one thing, digging into this
world, which was a big shock to me was quality of life post job. It was a huge is one of the things where it sounds fake and I kept looking it up again the numbers the statistics, etc. But that's a huge seems to be a huge driving force and it's a
genuine thing for all, you know, police officers and first responders I speak to but if you devote 20 plus years your life to the public, the very minimum that you should expect back is just be able to enjoy your retirement years.
That's to be the bare bare minimum, you know, you gave to your community this is your time and unfortunately doesn't always work out like that. That's a really big kid if you will for people to kind of like, you know, think about that and understand and to do what's best
for them as well.
So, that's kind of a big go to.
I think there's a lot of disservice when it comes to the rest and recovery side and we'll get to that but I think where one of the other massive disservices that we've done in fire police EMS is the immense opposition to a fitness standard, if you get those young
people that recruits and you just hold them to that same standard year in year out. That becomes a norm and again if you make it a job related standard not you need to deadlift 405 and have a, you know, to me a vertical jump and some of these things that you know you hear people
talking about is a standard but just you know a sequence of events moving the hose ladder dummy or you know a version of that for PD. So what is your perspective on that, you know, if there was a standard that they had to maintain and again people get so freaked
out about this conversation.
But the ocean lifeguards do it, special forces do it you know all the other professions where lives are at stake, they have a standard we for some reason the only ones that don't, you know, in most places.
So what is your what was your perspective of the absence of that, and then if you were king for a day, you know, what should we have as a profession I mean for me personally we should have the same damn standard that we took in the academy in Florida is called minimum
standards it uses fire equipment. So it doesn't matter if you're black, white, gay, straight, 18 or 55. You either can or you can't great standard, you know, to show can you still be on a fire engine or not.
What would you do through your lens as far as, you know, the implementation of maybe a standard that then in itself will forge longevity after retirement.
Yeah, it is it is a tough conversation of course with. It was very shocking coming out of it off of it, and even like in times at Academy it's it's, you know, we kind of created our own standards if you will off of that you know it's just basic things of, you
know, push up chin up, we would do a medicine all throw to limit some of the impact from jumping.
And then a pacer run. This was just a general fitness standard but the recruits would really buy into that and want to always better themselves and compete and I think it was a pleasant like outcome of it, you know what I mean because you never know how it's
going to be received off of that and they knew like this was just basically an internal thing that we're doing as a program what we're wanting to. But when you added weight to that credibility.
If you will, it made a big change for them to kind of see that I was kidding for a day and it's, it is.
I'll say it's different on the PD side it's not as like structured off of that whereas like the job task to be the job task could be anything for a fire of course but at least you know you have some basic things running ladders etc ceiling breaches,
yada yada, but the PD it's always kind of like different things like yeah we've done like fence hops and things of that nature but how often does that actually occur is always the question brought up.
I do think having a general like performance health standards should be required basically similar to what I even said, what we do with our Academy which is just like you're checking a box of some general baseline health, and then doing things
like in service trainings or what you will where you're kind of blending the two off of that where you can you should do what you did in the academies, and even talking to other officers at outside agencies and other places and just people who work the job like
they would rally around what they did you know back in the day of the dummy drags the climbing through the windows etc like the obstacle course if you will.
And going through that I think that has a big cognitive effect as well and really, you know, I always try to be careful around the specificity because then it's how specific is that if you don't always doing that or training that, which I understand
but having something where you have some kind of skin in the game, but go off of that but the general health, definitely, I think would would benefit all, and it doesn't have to be anything crazy off of it, I think things.
I'm opposed to a little more things that like, you know, two mile runs and things of that nature.
Just from a logistic standpoint I can't take, you know, 500 people to attract one day and go forward with it. The things that are also just kind of basically when it's over it's over fail proof, if you will, you can't do any more chin ups, your test is over so it has some
built into it, but having that other like obstacle course if you will test going through it and I think, you know, we've done some similar things I've done some similar things at the academy level and again, they people eat that up off of it they love to climb
the push crawl and do, you know, work off of it, I know, training is a better place to kind of implement that. I feel like sometimes when the strength and conditioning staff feels like they're getting assessed even though it's an assessment like they feel like
they're not as, you know, they don't perceive it as well, but when you're kind of doing it as part of your daily training into it. Hey, just maybe happens to be something we're going to kind of monitor or something we're going to time in the sense.
I think it had a better effect going forward with it. So if I could snap my fingers for a day we'd have a general, and then something a little bit more specific off of we do have some of those more physically demanding things which may not do all the time but you may be
required to do once or twice in your life so and they're just basic human things, things we should do crop climb crawl sprint, hop etc. So, I hope that answers the question.
It does it does it's funny because you hit on something as well which I haven't really tied into physical standards before.
But in my journey my gypsy journey in the American Fire Service, I would argue I work for probably one of the best fire departments in the country and one of the worst in amongst those four.
And where the best one was where the line would you know was still around the building certainly the day I, the year I tested in the line was insane thousands of people going for a handful of jobs.
They were also renowned for firing 25% of the new hire class, every time through attrition, because the bar was so damn high that they just people wouldn't reach it.
They would just pull in, and I think at the front door, if young people ago yeah we're going to hold you to a standard, a solid standard. That's not going to scare people away it will scare the wrong people away, but it will pull the right people towards you.
And I think even you know in the fire departments where they haven't had it before the same conversation isn't about yeah on Tuesday if you don't pass this you're fired it's about right here's the standard, and we're going to take two years to on ramp so that we can get everyone
back there. If after you know year two years you can't then obviously maybe fire prevention or something might be the next step for you but everyone else, I think I would argue are probably going to get excited about right well, you know they drew a line in the sand
I'm going to have to get my ass back in but then on be fair on the other side of the conversation that you and I spoke about last time. You've also then got an invite and create an environment that allows these people to be healthier to be fair and that would be where
they're kind of the better work we would come in so they was exciting is if we put the work week back in that simultaneously can be hand in hand with a fitness standard that you start going in, we're going to give you a better environment for high level of
performance, and therefore we're going to require a high level of performance.
Yeah, and just, I think there's a sense of pride of that too when people, you know they want to be a part of something like that when they come in because they know it's, it isn't for for everyone into that, and it's just built off that culture like culture is
something people talk about all the time but it really actual change to a culture especially something like, like this or like the military for example you've hundreds of years, you know, this is how we do things it's not just going to change overnight.
So, it kind of is a good spark though I do believe. Yeah. And you said about us being gem pop I mean that there's absolutely an element of that but there's also, you know, going to be days where you need to function at a high level, you know of athletics and I'll
give you a perfect example. The last place, not a department that ran fire really ever, but next to our station was a 28 story high rise hotel. So if the elevators went out, the high rise strip is basically 100 pounds of gear so you've got the your gear then
spare air bottles and the high rise hose has 100 pounds on my skinny ass. And now you've got to ascend 28 stories in gear that won't allow you to offload any heat breathing on a tank, and then you go to work that's just to get to work, then you go to work, you might even
have to bring someone down. So yes, you might be doing blood pressures and taping rolled ankles, you know, for two weeks straight, but all it takes is that one phone call and now you're, you're required to be an Olympic athlete in that moment so I think that's where,
you know, we've lost that important moment because that will be on the news you know if you couldn't get up fire department you know stop to the 10th floor. You're going to be the next of all the if we don't figure out this kind of fitness requirement again.
Most definitely and yeah that's the tough thing it's, I mean it's always being ready off of it. Yeah, like I said it's no disrespect or even to undervalue.
Like the first responder world with some of the, like, Jen pop comments off of that. It's just the, I guess the mentality should definitely is always greater than Jen pop like that's never been an issue mentality is always in the right spot, getting the, the
physical abilities to match that, especially like I said the, the tactical portions of the job if you will. You know what I mean like actually doing those training scenarios and practicing kind of what you preach off of it.
I think it's something that, you know, utilize a lot into it and it's all connected. If you're not physically, you know, I'd rather have also someone who is actually prepared can do the job.
With the basic level physical abilities compared to like, you know, an Olympic level, you know athlete that has no idea what they're doing you know there has to be a happy medium off them too.
It all it all plays with each other.
Absolutely. Well you mentioned specificity earlier.
One thing I think that's interesting about the fire service is, you know, we are required to do so many different things so that you can't train specificity really yes you can mimic you know a hose pool or a ladder carry or you know a dummy drag.
I think that's where the mimic is literally use the stuff, but you know we might be climbing down towers we might be hanging off the side of a building on a rope you know we might be just simply ascending or that number of stairs but now we've got a you know a monitor heart monitor and a medical box,
so rather than actual movements what are the training principles that you've applied to these very very you know multi plane potential careers or calls that we might get to allow us to have that baseline strength conditioning mobility without obviously the specificity of you know say a javelin
throw that knows exactly what motion they're going to do each time. That's a great question. The. Some of the training principles to really try to like establish with people.
You kind of mentioned in a little in a sense but training and all three planes of motion. So getting people out of there, and that does kind of go an extra selection some but getting people out of there just like basic bilateral stance getting people to move in, move in all planes
and move more freely almost move like athletes, if you will, if you need an example of it.
We work a lot in time zones basically so working, you know, because you never know when a, you know, a lot of things is going to be short bursts and recoveries off of it but working in certain time zones to try to simulate if you will or or simulate scenarios if you will that
we have talked with other officers to kind of establish off of that. And that can be kind of it works well too in our setting because it's going to be used with large groups we can kind of work multiple different things at once the training principle.
Talking about earlier, you know, not putting square pegs around holes kind of finding things that pick those individuals exercise wise and building at a program with that.
You know the specificity, you know we will do things like carries and drags and all that and that they do get excited about that because it looks similar to off of that. So like I don't want to act like we don't include things of that or I don't program exercises and kind of talk about their
their importance, but it's just too like I've been never hanging my hat on something and say this is going to prepare you for, you know, what you have to do on a day to day, because at the end of day, you can't make that promise.
It could be multiple different things off of it, but it's just giving them that that baseline of it. So those are the big kind of principles with it. It's a very well rounded training approach.
This helps anyone like you came into and you want to train as first responder here we're going to hit our major points of the things that we see as officers with injuries, thoracic mobility hit mobility low back so it's going to be targeted kind of right off the bat.
So some kind of warm up mobility routine going forward and then just very general strength training guidelines. That part isn't anything like sexy or special if you will. That's a downplay.
Basic programming like purization, purization. I mean, it just for that pretty much that session because you may see somebody on a Monday and never seen him again for two weeks just from the job demand so kind of basically hitting a lot of different adaptations as safely
and as effectively as you can, concurrent style of training. And it's getting away from some of the notions that you have to feel like you're going to crawl out of the gym to have a successful workout.
You know, I always explain that you should feel better leaving the gym when you came in, and that's just going to keep leading to more success long term off of it so appropriate, you know, training intensities and appropriate just like levels of soreness and understanding
as it's basic if that may sound off of it is just getting people to, you know, you should leave having a little bit more in the tank. I think that works with, we work with on duty officers, it's a little more efficient because you can't be exhausted when you go out but
it's one of those things where you actually feel more energized and better as you go out to your, your calls or, you know, after your wellness routine you know you feel like you have a better chance for your day opposed to the opposite of, I'm just barely dragging through my day because I can't walk now because I did, you know, squash till I dropped.
I'm bouncing around a lot with that it's just thinking there's a lot of there's a lot of principles that are applied to regular traditional SNC, that it's not like it's not applied to tactical it just has to be modified for the settings there in the environment that you
know that you're right it isn't the most ideal environment when it comes to a training adaptation, but it's just kind of adapting off of those, you know we still follow like progressions and regressions of exercise, etc.
But yeah, those are the things will harp on more than worrying about just the specific exercises for them. Because, again, at the end of the day if they come in and we, you know, we're going to we're going to train squat whatever that squat may be, or we're going to train a drag whatever that drag may be, etc.
That's going to be it for that day. It's gonna be like what you can do so I worry more about meeting people where they're at at that moment, then worry about, you know, everything that may go into like a workout program for, you know, if I was working with a collegiate athlete.
So, meeting people where they're at.
Well speaking of sleds. I've had this conversation with a few coaches now, one of the, I guess aha moments that I had, I've trained with Julian Pernod I went over and did a session with him once he's the guy behind strong fit.
And really he was his program and open my eyes to using strongman tools, just, you know, for training and he really started kind of, for lack of a better word unfucking crossfit athletes is how he how we really kind of got his, his thing because a lot of us have the imbalances you know from the
kipping and the explosive Olympic lifts and there wasn't a lot of posterior chain development.
And so, you know, it was carrying sandbags it was pushing pulling sleds it was overhead yoke carries.
And so as I started kind of interacting or sort of introducing these into when I would train firefighters.
I realized that there was a lot of fear in again, more more often than not that decondition group. And by using these tools you took away that I'm going to look stupid people are going to realize that I'm not strong I'm not fit whatever the little, you know, subtext
of a person's mind. I said no no you got to just pick that bag up, and then walk over there, and then come back. Or you got to put that's you know, pull the straps around your waist, and you're going to drag that sled there and drag it back.
And all of a sudden, that fear of looking stupid went away. And I got by it and again I wasn't trying to kill him I was trying to get them to do a weight that was an introductory way.
And they enjoyed it like you said they had, you know, they had gas in the tank still.
Had it been I'm going to show you a snatch I'm going to show you a muscle up you know whatever it was then of course it's they're just going to feel like looking stupid even a squat, because of the lack of you know mobility, it might look an absolute train wreck as well.
So what have you seen as far as specific movements or equipment that you found, you know, just simply get more buy in and then maybe where others are scaring off some of our first responders that deep down do want to get back in the gym, but there's this fear of looking stupid.
And I think strongman modalities are like strongman training is something that I, I feel very comfortable with so I did. Again I told you I power lifted early on the conversation that led me to do strongman competitions.
And to be complete tangent but something for everyone you don't need to be like a very large person do strongman like it's, you know, it's one of those great classes, but it is, it is the base of everything we need to do, I do think it's less intimidating for people to get involved.
And then over the day like I'll will do a lot of sandbag carries a lot of things of that nature half the time people don't even know what they're carrying like weight loss, they just know it's an implement it's out there and they're supposed to carry it.
And for some reason I think it's associated differently, like, 100 pound sandbag I think is associated differently than if I had 100 pound dumbbell out there, or whatever reason maybe that's completely just anecdotal what I what I think that I've observed with other people.
It carries no pun intended it carries more weight, for some reason with with the traditional straight training tools. So you're getting more bang for your buck, because there is that aspect of, you know, it's overused a lot of functionality.
You know you're getting great posterior chain work you're getting great trunk stability and you're getting, I think, too with especially a lot of maybe female first responders you're getting a lot of sense of confidence into it.
It's engaging, because it's something different than a traditional barbell.
And honestly I, I'm a lot less worried about injuries or things of that nature. When someone's doing something like that especially a sled.
Not going would have never had anybody hurt themselves on a sled.
It's kind of, you know, I don't say dummy proof because tomorrow maybe my words but it keeps you in a very safe position, I'm pushing us a sled sprinting.
I'm not gonna be able to get those top end speeds like I would if I was running without it. It's kind of hindering my ability, so I'm keeping myself safer in a sense. And it's something that is, you know, it's going to get the heart rate up it's going to, it's going to feed that first
responder desire to feel like they had a good workout. So I think that's four things I'm counting off now of like positives off of like that, that strongman style of training.
I think coaching it is a little more simple as well. It's something comes a little more natural people.
I love sleds huge on them, just because that reason, you know, if I have a group of folks that I'm training through a session even I've never really worked with them before.
I tell them go and drag the sled, maybe you give a slight example coaching I know if my back is turning I have to be somewhere else.
They're going to be okay. You know what I mean, they're going to kind of work that out themselves.
You know, self organized as they go through the movement, and it doesn't require a lot of coaching other than maybe some motivational things. So that's like a five win win win win win win win scenario for me.
Coaching on the floor and working with these individuals so we definitely want to take advantage of that and use those movements to build a program on.
Another thing that I've observed and if you have to, when you do those movements, and you know in the hour that I normally coach you know we'll start with the sandbag carry be a longer one so it'd be like a 200 meter carry.
You know, there'll be a push there'll be a pull with the sled I love the hand over hand rope pull with the sled you know 150 foot rope.
I mean for grip endurance is phenomenal. But what I've noticed and we talked earlier about that soreness and being discouraging that you don't tend to get muscle soreness with those movements either you can be absolutely redlining with the sled and you know fall
over at the end, but the next day unless you you know it's just your body hasn't been used to any movement if you're training regularly. I find that you can train hard and the next day you feel great as well.
And with the sled especially like there's really no eccentric load across any of the muscles so it's a lot way safer for something off of that and something where soreness is a big deal.
You know you can't be sore and be expected to perform as well as you can in the field. And I'm talking like absolute just destroyed soreness that would affect it.
That's a good option to turn to you're still getting stimulus. I mean if you pull a heavy like you know I'll utilize a heavy sled drag or a heavy sled push or not as much anymore but the heavy hand over hand rope pulls like you just discussed as like a primary exercise.
That's going to be our our squat today. This is going to still train your lower body.
It's going to train in a safer way where you don't have to be loaded with any weight on the spine or whatever it may be. So it's kind of one of those things where unless you really want to learn squat the squat pattern or be really good at squatting like we're still going to squat
but we have this other option to also achieve this task. So which may be better for an older individual or someone with tricky shoulders or whatever it may be, you know there's a host of reasons I could work better for someone.
Absolutely. Well, as I mentioned at the beginning we were connected by Dan who has been a part of the Beaver Fit USA family.
I have talked about you know the the legitimate excuse is the wrong word reason why a lot of first responder you know agencies stations do struggle to have a strength and conditioning program especially on shift and you know as we've talked about before yes the fire service has a house so we're normally there for 24 hours.
So it's a great place to you know to get a workout in when you're there as well. The problem is you know like an old FDNY station this may simply not have the space for a gym, you know there might be some more modern ones or more suburban ones, but the gym is tiny.
And so when I came across Beaver Fit and I saw that they have the Connex boxes you know they can literally sit out in the parking lot the whole time you've got the the foot locker which I think is an amazing one where you can roll it out of the bay, set it up on the back apron now you've got pull up bar squat rack all the things and then put it away you've got the ones that go on the truck hitch.
You've got the trailers so if you've got a you know a peer fitness trainer or a fitness trainer within a department they can literally bring the gym to the stations. So, and then obviously the resilience their equipment literally sat on battleship decks is sat in Afghanistan and Iraq out in the sand so the resilience of their equipment I think is extremely important because we're not a collegiate you know sporting team.
We've got a bunch of gruff men and women that are trying to get a workout in that might have to drop everything in the rain because we just got a call.
So that's my personal thing about Beaver Fit I think that they're the perfect fit for the tactical community is what as far as you know the first responders especially talk to me about how you know you came across them and then how do you apply them with what you do now.
So it was kind of filling the need of an outside option of training so kind of looking outside of the box you know large departments scaled across multiple miles not the most feasible option of always you know battling traffic to get station to station.
And while the stations and those part of quick like you said just offering additional options so we first came across them.
Basically of feeling the need of an outside I don't know the exact, we have basically at the power rack the dual power rack.
Set up with the weight storage in between I don't know what that's actually called off their website I apologize, but we have that outside of a couple of our stations where they're in the transition period.
We have that other two other locations across our county where basically individual can just go upstairs go outside get some fresh air and go through a workout and there's not many brands or options when it comes to outside training, and they've definitely filled
that need for us and it worked out beautifully as far as the setup of it and like you said it stays outside it's designed it's it's it's very terrible for, I think, just the first responder culture in general of you know you mentioned dropping everything and leaving
but just also just wear and tear equipment experiences, always looking at ways to take programs to people rather than expecting everybody to kind of come to us. So that's why we really kind of got into that and, you know, still hopefully in the future can can build off
things more just make things more, more feasible for people.
You know my big job is basically finding solutions to problems. You know, I always say like, I'm going to, I'm going to take the water to the horse.
In the day the horse is still have to drink water but if I bring the horse the water it's a little bit more likely to drink out of it. So that was the main thing with it and super happy with with how everything turned out with a lot of the setups.
And what I observed, you know, trying to be part of that solution in several places that I worked in different degrees of course was, you know, some places we just bought our own stuff so this wasn't even part of the conversation but when what I saw was departments
really work hard, you know, fight for a wellness budget, but then they then go and buy the low bid stuff. So all that hard work to finally get the money and then a year later, things are falling apart or they're, you know, like I said they're rusting because they were left
out. And so it was just simply also that they know that false economy of buying the low bid stuff versus, what do I need for for this department you know what are applications to be able to either put it out and put it away or leave it out the whole time, you know,
and then understanding yeah there's a higher cost but over 10 2030 years, this stuff is still going to be there when we would have got through 10 versions of the shitty ones that we bought.
100% on that anything, any equipment to look at, you know, I look at, you know, functionality of course, you know, I don't want to spy one trip pony floor space and then the real big one is the durability, things that hopefully will outlast me for many years,
and, you know, as it goes and can be used over and over again. And that's a big one too because like you said you don't have to worry about bringing things inside, etc. can stay out there, like ours just sees out.
Sees out year round, and no issues of it. The durability is huge to have something made for the first responder environment.
Well, we've talked about you know the the training side, I've touched on you know the rest and recovery side as we spoke last time. If I'm not mistaken, which is interesting because that was kind of where a lot of our previous union administration were from.
They still work 56 hours a week I don't know if they're subjected to mandatory over time but the the work week that our firefighters work is obviously the arena that I know best. And when I compare it or when I asked my guests to compare it about the rest
and recovery of the elite sporting athletes there's a massive disconnect. Sporting athletes don't save lives, first responders do but they've got it backwards as far as rest and recovery in my opinion, we have to be awake at night of course but I think that there's a strong
argument to give in our men and women more time off so they can recover and then perform at a high level as well. So what has been your observation of the first responders that you've worked with and their ability or inability to have the very recovery that will allow them to gain from
these strength and conditioning sessions.
Yeah, and I'm not quite sure on the hours like I said I can speak on the PD side of things. I mean, this is a culture, a work culture it's, it's, you know, it's it's a field where it's not for everybody off of the off of the work scale.
We try to do what we can to educate showcase, you know, options for people, we have medical staff people can go to for recovery we have cold plunge we have resources, but also getting just getting to the people and explain to them the benefits of fleet
proper nutrition.
And then work life balance off of it the best you can do is a first responder, but that's definitely going to be a key for like long term actual progress into it.
You know, talking to your supervisors talking like learning the craft of the job and building off of that not looking at it as just a sprint but a marathon over, over time, like actual training recovery modalities rather implementing things like such as yoga.
And the recovery modalities don't get brought up enough because it's something that's also individualized to the person, but may work for you for recovery may not work for me as recovery.
So, some people absolutely love cold water immersion. Some people get extreme anxiety for cold water immersion. So finding the thing that fits you is I think a big key like said we offer yoga yoga instructors that come in and do great jobs.
Yoga is not for everyone, but if that's, that's something you know I've tried to push upon officers of like hey you're, you know, going through stress, etc. You want to deal with some things a little differently.
You know try out this, if the very worst, it's going to be in work for me wasn't a fan, like, not doing it again.
I probably worded a little differently but that's the gist of it. And then keep finding kind of what's good we'll do a lot of box breathing, post session recovery box breathing.
Some people swear by they absolutely love it. Some people kind of can't get into that mind frame of it so it's trying to give people the options as modalities yes the major rocks of sleep nutrition, kind of those things has to be hit first work life balance etc.
Those rocks are not going to have anything else, but having additional options kind of fill in those gaps can be helpful off of it, even if it's just from a mental perspective placebo effect if you will.
It's huge for them.
Brilliant. Well I want to go to some closing questions before I let you go if you've got time.
Of course. All right, but the first one I love to ask, is there a book or are there books that you love to recommend, it can be related to our discussion today or completely unrelated.
Yeah, I thought about this and I still couldn't think too much through. So I think like recently a lot of a lot of books that kind of helped me have been definitely outside the strength and conditioning realm, they've been more.
I don't want to say like self help but like administrative things of that nature.
I think, like I read the book like never eat alone.
That was a big book I think that that kind of got me out of a, it put me into a much better mindset with training sorry I'm kind of draw a lot of blanks here.
I don't know why this is this is the question that did me in that one sticks out to me a lot.
I swear I'm a big reader though.
No problem.
Their mind goes blank mind does the same thing.
One, one will come to me probably right before we close off, and then I'll just yell it out if that's cool. They do it. Absolutely like game of bingo.
All right.
What about films and documentaries any of those that you love.
So personally, this isn't really connected anything off it I'm big horror movie fan, so this is kind of my time of year right now with with Halloween everything.
So a lot of horror movie, a lot of psychological thrillers.
Story wise,
think the, some of the ones that big fan of our sport sporting related. So like ESPN 30 by 30s and this is this is really nothing related to the tactical side off of it if that's okay.
Yeah, absolutely.
But I'm 30 by 30s been watching a lot of those like the you.
You too. They had the other one with them in the Notre Dame college football programs basically docu series of the University of Miami.
That was probably the last thing I watched off of it.
But kind of just right now with with the eight month old we don't watch a lot of like movies from start to finish.
But those have been big ones. When I'm kind of outside of training I know it's my hobby and I talked about how I do kind of it's hard to get away from it but I do try to go completely opposite side to, you know, escape and since I'm in the tactical side now sporting
and stuff is not my job so a lot more enjoyment of actually like watching that kind of stuff.
But that's what I've been watching a lot of recently.
Beautiful. So the next question is there a person or other people that you would recommend to come on this podcast as a guest to speak to the first responders military and associated professions of the world.
Yeah, I mean I think anybody in our program would be great guest.
Our dietician Megan louts. I know she does a lot of podcasts why I just popped up.
My co part fire coordinator, Jake Patton, been in the field for forever and is a great like learning mentor for me to work with. He would be great in a sedore is our athletic trainer on our PD side she is.
She has been.
She's amazing at her job.
She's fantastic and a great resource for officers and been in this space for quite quite a long time and I think that's important I mean I love this space and you know I've been in quite as long as some of them, pushing, you know, go on to about five years now, which
just strictly tactical, but I definitely would recommend any any of those individuals to speak on that tactical piece of it.
I think they do a great job. Beautiful now they all sound great so we'll have to make that happen. Thank you.
Well then the very last question for we make sure people know where to find you, what you do to decompress.
Hang out my dogs.
You just say decompress right. Yes, I did.
Sorry I was breaking up a little hang out my family right now but just honestly taking the dogs on a walk. It's not something that can do is quite as often training is something I do to decompress as well but training is a little differently than what it is in
the past so you know, instead of the hour long training sessions, kind of like a regular gym setting just going out, kind of turn my mind off doing some kettlebell work doing some base work, doing things that I find fun and new and intriguing.
That's been the big one like the physical decompression. Again, the outside is the dogs and the family. And then, recently, even though I couldn't think as many is the watching.
Like, honestly, kind of almost turning my mind off completely and watching, you know, docu series things of that watching television watching a lot of scary movies right now.
At this time it kind of can take me away anything where you can take yourself outside of the reality and put yourself in something else to kind of calm down I think is a key for my brain I'm sure like most people that are on this podcast and
by yourself as well it's always running themes.
So, I think, interestingly, 24 seven so anything we're going to kind of shut that off for a moment is the perfect decompression, and those three things have been big for me recently. We switched to Wolf Brigade programming about a year ago now maybe actually we switched in the gym about six months but I was following Greg so I had him on the show.
So, I think as a 50 year old and you know athlete now.
Just the the the strict elements the the heavy kettlebells you know because we got up to 150 now so you're moving stuff that you never thought you better for move before my short my shoulder mobility, excuse me, my shoulder mobility you know literally my musculature has changed
and I'm so so impressed with, with that kind of training. What is the kind of, you know, philosophy that you use how did you come across some of those implements.
I mean honestly I haven't even taken that much of a step yet. It started with just not having the space at like my, my home for like a tradition like a gym setting so I got a, you know, fat bar and axle bar some bumpers and the kettlebells or something where I could do a lot of challenge, you know, different positions and exercises that I haven't done.
So this is not to sound. Yeah, I've been weight training a long time, this is I mean there's still always progressions to make but again, this should be something that's fun to me. So doing bench three by 10 doesn't really sound like a lot of fun to me so getting out some maces and just in some Indian
for me it was just just doing stuff on my own like kind of experimenting and they created like a new sense of joy and strength and conditioning for me personally, a lot of taking that out always applying it to others I work with.
But yeah I haven't even like taking that step of looking so I'll check on. I mean I've been meeting, you know, check out them I look even just like YouTube are on it sometimes just for ideas of things to do, and just trying to spark that creativity because those are kind of sessions I'll go in
and have a big plan. And it's just kind of like free styling for movement.
And I think for for that position that I'm in it's been one of the better things to do because I'll experiment different things. I'll see what kind of works and then hey can I apply this over.
Is it appropriate to apply over. If not, even it's just good freestyle flow for me to kind of get into. So just for fun honestly.
I look like a crazy man out in my neighborhood swinging my mace just, you know, in the middle of the day, you know, staring people down but love it.
Yeah, I've been so impressed I mean truly truly impressed but I was carrying through my wife's apartment complex because she's just finishing up med school. And again, I don't know what it looked like but I've got this massive metal mace walk into their gym but I look like I'm about to break into someone's
house. So, you look a bit of a loom and you carry it around. All right, well, the, the very last question then I'm sure people listening, you know, would love to learn more about your program and Fairfax reach out to you, where are the best places online to do that.
Instagram is going to be the best. It's coach beholder on Instagram, that is going to be the best place to reach me. Feel free to DM me ask any questions and open book with that with that so I'm happy to help any way I can.
Brilliant.
Well, Brandon I want to say thank you so much we've been all over the place, you know from youth athletics to, you know, parenting and all the way into the tactical athlete space it's been an amazing conversation. So I want to thank you so so much for being so generous with
your time and coming on behind the shield podcast today.
I appreciate it is a lot of fun. Thank you.