1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,820
This episode is brought to you by Thorne and I have some incredible news for any of you

2
00:00:03,820 --> 00:00:07,960
that are in the military, first responder or medical professions.

3
00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:15,860
In an effort to give back, Thorne is now offering you an ongoing 35% off each and every one

4
00:00:15,860 --> 00:00:19,780
of your purchases of their incredible nutritional solutions.

5
00:00:19,780 --> 00:00:27,280
Now Thorne is the official supplement of CrossFit, the UFC, the Mayo Clinic, the Human Performance

6
00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:31,480
Project and multiple special operations organizations.

7
00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:36,420
I myself have used them for several years and that is why I brought them on as a sponsor.

8
00:00:36,420 --> 00:00:42,080
Some of my favorite products they have are their Multivitamin Elite, their Whey Protein,

9
00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:45,840
the Super EPA and then most recently, Cynaquil.

10
00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:50,120
As a firefighter, a stuntman and a martial artist, I've had my share of brain trauma

11
00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:55,520
and sleep deprivation and Cynaquil is their latest brain health supplement.

12
00:00:55,520 --> 00:01:02,640
Now to qualify for the 35% off, go to Thorne.com.

13
00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:05,460
Click on sign in and then create a new account.

14
00:01:05,460 --> 00:01:09,800
You will see the opportunity to register as a first responder or member of military.

15
00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:14,680
When you click on that, it will take you through verification with GovX.

16
00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:19,000
You'll simply choose a profession, provide one piece of documentation and then you are

17
00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:20,920
verified for life.

18
00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:26,720
From that point onwards, you will continue to receive 35% off through Thorn.

19
00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:34,360
For those of you who don't qualify, there is still the 10% off using the code BTS10

20
00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:36,240
for a one time purchase.

21
00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:42,040
To learn more about Thorn, go to episode 323 of the Behind the Shield Podcast with Joel

22
00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:45,840
Titoro and Wes Barnett.

23
00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:47,160
Welcome to the Behind the Shield Podcast.

24
00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:51,080
As always, my name is James Gearing and this week it is my absolute honor to welcome on

25
00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:58,200
the show career firefighters and founders of Tactical Sleep Rescue, Jason Villigante

26
00:01:58,200 --> 00:01:59,480
and Christina Dizon.

27
00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:05,080
Now, it is very rare that you find firefighters that are also well educated and versed in

28
00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:07,960
the world of sleep and sleep deprivation.

29
00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:13,480
So this was an incredible conversation from their respective journeys into the fire service

30
00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:19,280
to the performance impact, the chronic disease and the gamut of tools that we can use to

31
00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:25,640
combat this issue when it comes to sleep deprivation, shift work and its impact on the firefighter.

32
00:02:25,640 --> 00:02:31,760
Now, before we get to this incredible conversation, as I say every week, please just take a moment.

33
00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:37,020
Go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback and

34
00:02:37,020 --> 00:02:39,240
leave a rating.

35
00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:44,720
Every single five star rating truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making it easier for

36
00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:46,280
others to find.

37
00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:51,600
And this is a free library of over 1000 episodes now.

38
00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:57,480
So all I ask in return is that you help share these incredible men and women stories so

39
00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:03,040
I can get them to every single person on planet Earth who needs to hear them.

40
00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:20,400
So with that being said, I introduce to you Jason Villigante and Christina Dizon.

41
00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:30,080
Enjoy.

42
00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:34,200
Jason and Christina, I want to start by saying thank you so much for taking the time and

43
00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:36,560
coming on the Behind the Shield podcast today.

44
00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:38,120
We are so honored, James.

45
00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:39,480
Thank you for having us.

46
00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:40,960
Yeah, thank you so much, James.

47
00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:43,160
Looking forward to the conversation for sure.

48
00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:44,160
All right.

49
00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:46,520
Now I know you're sitting in different parts of the country.

50
00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:47,760
Let's start with you, Jason.

51
00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:49,960
Where are we finding you this morning?

52
00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:54,160
I am actually in Orange County today in Newport Beach.

53
00:03:54,160 --> 00:04:00,520
I am working down in Los Angeles and got a day off finally, so yeah, beautiful Orange

54
00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:01,520
County.

55
00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:02,720
So throw that right now.

56
00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:05,760
My son was born in Hogue Hospital in Newport Beach.

57
00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:06,760
Beautiful place.

58
00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:07,760
Oh, was he really?

59
00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:08,760
Oh, nice.

60
00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:09,760
He was indeed.

61
00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:10,760
All right, Christina, what about you?

62
00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:11,760
Where are we finding you?

63
00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:14,440
Today, I am actually in San Francisco.

64
00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:20,080
My husband and I are taking a road trip coming home from Women in Fire that was in San Diego.

65
00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:25,280
So my home, we are slowly making our way back towards Portland, Oregon.

66
00:04:25,280 --> 00:04:26,280
That's a long drive.

67
00:04:26,280 --> 00:04:27,880
It's a long drive.

68
00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:31,080
We have little stops in between to break everything up a little bit.

69
00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:32,080
Brilliant.

70
00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:35,200
Well, I'm honored that both of you are coming on on your vacation.

71
00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:37,600
So let's jump in.

72
00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:40,520
So I want to start with some backstories of both of you.

73
00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:42,360
So Jason, back to you.

74
00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:45,800
Tell me where you were born and tell me a little bit about your family dynamic, what

75
00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:48,000
your parents did, how many siblings.

76
00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:49,000
Sure.

77
00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:51,680
So I was born in San Francisco, California.

78
00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:54,960
Actually, it's funny Christina is there right now.

79
00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:57,760
I am from a big Italian family.

80
00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:02,240
So I have a brother and a sister, tons of cousins, tons of uncles and aunts.

81
00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:06,280
My whole family are longshoremen and longshorewomen.

82
00:05:06,280 --> 00:05:09,760
And so I come from a very strong union family, very loud family.

83
00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:14,240
Passionate is what we like to call it.

84
00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:20,920
And yeah, just a lot of very opinionated and people that want to let like stand up for

85
00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:21,920
themselves.

86
00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:28,680
So I almost feel like with what we're trying to do, it's you know, you see a problem, you

87
00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:30,720
speak up about a problem.

88
00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:34,120
And I do feel that's kind of rooted in my background.

89
00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:38,200
And yeah, so that's a little bit about me and my family.

90
00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:39,720
There's no resistance in the fire service.

91
00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:43,240
You come up with a good potential solution and they're like, Oh, that sounds amazing.

92
00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:44,240
Let's do that.

93
00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:46,400
Especially the chiefs for sure.

94
00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:49,440
They're very open to all that.

95
00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:54,600
What I've noticed in the fire service and the kind of leather helmet is the kind of

96
00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:59,240
sacrificial goat for this or sacrificial lamb, should I say for this conversation is there's

97
00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:03,240
a muddling between tradition and history.

98
00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:07,280
Tradition in my opinion is courage and selflessness and service.

99
00:06:07,280 --> 00:06:13,720
History is for example, the leather helmet, the 2448 things like that, that worked a long

100
00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:14,840
time ago.

101
00:06:14,840 --> 00:06:18,800
But there are better things that we can actually use to improve performance and health these

102
00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:19,800
days.

103
00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:22,560
Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more.

104
00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:23,800
Couldn't agree more.

105
00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:28,880
We get the only thing firefighters hate more than what things saying the same has changed

106
00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:32,840
that whole little saying so couldn't agree more.

107
00:06:32,840 --> 00:06:33,840
Absolutely.

108
00:06:33,840 --> 00:06:35,160
And with the helmet thing, I get pushback.

109
00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:38,320
I'm like, Can you imagine if the Navy SEALs still wore tin helmets?

110
00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:40,440
Right, right.

111
00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:42,720
Or if the football players with the leather helmets, right?

112
00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:43,720
Exactly.

113
00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:46,600
Or the hockey players with no helmets and no face mask.

114
00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:47,600
All right.

115
00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:49,880
Well, I want to stay with you for a second.

116
00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:54,040
Longshoremen educate me on that entire profession.

117
00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:59,040
Okay, so this is this goes back to man.

118
00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:04,440
This is so it's one of the most powerful unions in our country.

119
00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:10,120
If you're not familiar with it, it's essentially it's unloading cargo from ships onto tractor

120
00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:11,120
trailers.

121
00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:15,080
There's giant cranes when you drive around major metropolitan cities.

122
00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:17,680
And so there's all kinds of different jobs that longshoremen do.

123
00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:19,700
I'm actually kind of casual right now.

124
00:07:19,700 --> 00:07:22,080
So I'm not a steady longshoreman.

125
00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:24,800
It's what I do when I'm off duty.

126
00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:28,240
But you can go from doing something they call what is lashing.

127
00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:36,280
So you get a metal rod and untie the the container ship containers that are stacked to helping

128
00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:38,760
guide the tractor trailers around the dock.

129
00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:42,640
So there's a lot of unique types of jobs.

130
00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:48,600
I've even also was a I had a it's called a shoveler.

131
00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:54,800
You go to get sugar brown sugar, the CNA sugar I'm sure you guys are aware of.

132
00:07:54,800 --> 00:08:00,840
And you literally have a shovel and a giant almost like football field size boat and you

133
00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:03,360
dig sugar out of the sides of the hole.

134
00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:12,320
So it's just a very a lot of different types of jobs that kind of come with it.

135
00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:13,800
But it's a strong union.

136
00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:24,160
It's there is a big push in the 30s with longshoremen to get some rights worker rights and it's

137
00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:30,240
it's it's it's it's under attack right now with a lot of the automation I know down in

138
00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:34,520
Long Beach they have an entire port that's become automated and I know there's a lot

139
00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:40,680
of unsureness which where the profession is going to go just because they're truly trying

140
00:08:40,680 --> 00:08:43,560
to get that AI to replace folks.

141
00:08:43,560 --> 00:08:48,660
So yeah, just a very unknowing time right now.

142
00:08:48,660 --> 00:08:53,000
So did you witness a lot of gunfights because I noticed in the movies every time they want

143
00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:56,480
to have a gunfight they go down to the shipping yard and fight between the containers and

144
00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:58,480
throw bad guys off the top.

145
00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:03,120
Well it's funny because it's funny you say that people like so my family is kind of not

146
00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:07,800
notorious but they're well known down in the docks in San Francisco.

147
00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:09,080
And so it's good or bad.

148
00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:12,520
They always think like we're kind of connected to the mafia and it's like oh the village

149
00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:13,520
Johnny's.

150
00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:18,320
Oh, I hear that because all our cousins all our nephews everyone's in the business.

151
00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:20,160
So it's a it's funny you say that.

152
00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:24,440
But no I've heard you know that's I'm sure that's part of the the past of it.

153
00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:27,640
You know definitely in the 50s 70s 60s.

154
00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:30,080
So not so much now.

155
00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:37,960
I think it's more you know the corporate groups that run the docks they they kind of have

156
00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:41,160
more of like a stranglehold so to speak.

157
00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:45,920
But yeah, no it's it's it's it's unique.

158
00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:46,920
It's fun.

159
00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:49,000
It's a nice change from from work here at the fire service.

160
00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:54,520
It's but there's also also a lot of similarities and also with our program too because those

161
00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:58,960
guys and gals work all kinds of shifts some night shifts day shifts.

162
00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:05,080
They call it nightside and dayside and sleep deprivation people sleeping in cars they try

163
00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:06,320
to get a shift in the morning.

164
00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:13,160
It's it's a lot of similar adjacent kind of issues that are their own but also kind of

165
00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:18,720
right up there with us as well with the with some of the problems we face.

166
00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:22,680
What were the elements of that particular profession that allowed them to have a good

167
00:10:22,680 --> 00:10:29,360
union because one of the things that I actually question is being a union you know Jew paying

168
00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:32,000
member of the IFF my whole career.

169
00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:37,960
I heard we're one of the best unions strongest unions in the country but then I see for example

170
00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:44,480
in 2024 that we're still working insane work hours and now you've got this crisis of mandatory

171
00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:48,840
overtime and you know some of the other issues like a mental health center we've got one

172
00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:52,600
in the northeast corner of the country and check the box for you know okay we got that

173
00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:53,600
covered.

174
00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:54,600
I disagree.

175
00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:55,600
I truly disagree.

176
00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:59,600
I think there's good people and I love the union philosophy but I think it's been corrupted

177
00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:03,640
you know certainly in the previous administration where very little was done.

178
00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:07,140
You think about the millions and millions and millions of firefighters wages that went

179
00:11:07,140 --> 00:11:08,880
into that union.

180
00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:16,720
So what did the longshoremen do well that you think maybe our union could learn from?

181
00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:22,900
Well I do think and my dad was a former San Francisco local 10 the union president and

182
00:11:22,900 --> 00:11:29,520
he always speaks on this you know back in the 80s and 90s it was member participation

183
00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:37,120
and I think like you're kind of alluding to James because people are so tired or burnt

184
00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:41,720
out or want to get home they don't really feel like they can make time to participate

185
00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:48,120
in person at these union meetings so by default of that the power balance hangs in to the

186
00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:52,920
couple members in the executive board and so you know sometimes we get a couple good

187
00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:58,440
people on the executive board who have best intentions but also too to help processes

188
00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:04,880
streamline you want to have good relationships with either the city or the actual department

189
00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:14,520
and so I do feel that the members best interest to get kind of diluted and it's really because

190
00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:19,760
of the participation people are so distracted with social media family issues you know if

191
00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:23,000
they're having their own struggles you know mentally physically they want to go to the

192
00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:29,000
gym they want to sleep I think it's all the above but I think the number one thing is

193
00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:36,200
the member participation and being active yeah that's that's kind of what I've noticed

194
00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:41,880
yeah that's a powerful and important perspective I think the other thing for me aside from

195
00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:47,240
the work week is the fitness standards the fact that we have a profession where lives

196
00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:51,880
are in the balance our lives our partners lives and the people that we're serving and

197
00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:57,360
if you are in a union dynamic that opposes fitness standards then I question again are

198
00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:02,340
you actually there for the people because poor fitness standards leads to sickness which

199
00:13:02,340 --> 00:13:07,260
leads to dying you know before or shortly after retirement so I think that's another

200
00:13:07,260 --> 00:13:11,200
huge disservice but I agree with you that takes all of us it's not shouldn't be put

201
00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:16,160
on the shoulders of a few people but if a few people are put in those positions and

202
00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:20,300
they have the support of their membership they need to be advocating for the things

203
00:13:20,300 --> 00:13:24,300
that are going to improve our wellness even if it's an uncomfortable conversation and

204
00:13:24,300 --> 00:13:27,520
yes if you are deconditioned that does mean that you're going to have to get your ass

205
00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:33,680
back into condition over two three years or whatever it is because if as I say to people

206
00:13:33,680 --> 00:13:38,280
you imagine going to the ocean and seeing an obese lifeguard and your little boy drowns

207
00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:44,080
because that fucker can't swim you know what I mean this is where we're at right right

208
00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:50,640
you know for our might have for the permanent work for for LA City we have a you know in

209
00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:55,880
the books it's like you shall work out one hour you know minimum but that's you know

210
00:13:55,880 --> 00:14:03,040
with how busy we are that's not it are people held to that by their captains and supervisors

211
00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:08,560
or no it's not it's just you know that's just some old rule that was written that is just

212
00:14:08,560 --> 00:14:13,040
kind of like a lot of other rules like oh can you you need to get the chief to approve

213
00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:18,360
working more than seven days in a row that was an old rule because we all know that really

214
00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:24,480
wasn't the norm in the past and now people are doing crazy amount of days and there's

215
00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:29,400
no there's no letter going to a chief about this so these these rules that were put in

216
00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:35,360
place they're also not being followed through how they were supposed to be intended for

217
00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:42,380
so that's also an issue these empty rules so if you're going to have if you're going

218
00:14:42,380 --> 00:14:47,800
to have like priorities or place where people need to meet the bare minimum and they're

219
00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:53,400
not even being followed through then what's the point of even having yeah and I think

220
00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:57,920
this is the whole conversation needs to be the ownership of the individual and the environment

221
00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:02,880
that that individual works in those two you know cohabit if you're not having both conversations

222
00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:08,600
simultaneously it's unfair to ask a firefighter that you're mandatory to work you know 80

223
00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:13,560
90 100 hours a week to also have you know 13 percent body fat you know what I mean those

224
00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:19,600
things just don't work side by side so this is why it's an everybody conversation right

225
00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:24,280
right no I couldn't agree more couldn't agree more so well Christina over to you then so

226
00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:27,920
tell me where you were born and tell me a little bit about your family dynamic what

227
00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:40,560
your parents did how many siblings so ironically I was born in LA so LA County so my parents

228
00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:47,800
really interesting we have no one on either side of our family lineage who were first

229
00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:56,800
responders my mom was a stay at home mom my dad was an engineer computer engineer who

230
00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:04,440
worked in project management and my mom was an orphan so she created her own family so

231
00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:11,720
I'm actually the oldest of 10 kids there's a lot of us two sets of twins and then from

232
00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:19,600
that group of 10 we actually somehow found ourselves having four firefighters so I have

233
00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:25,880
two other sisters who are firefighters they're fire medics and a brother who is a fire medic

234
00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:33,600
as well and when I was about 12 we moved from California out to Portland Oregon so I do

235
00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:39,680
you call technically it's Washington it's the other side of the bridge but I call that

236
00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:49,240
home so it's really a funny story my sisters found a fire camp Portland puts on a fire

237
00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:54,560
camp and it's been running for 16 years now so it was one of the first girls fire camps

238
00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:59,520
in the country my sisters found this fire camp as something fun to do when they were

239
00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:06,640
in high school and at the time I had already been a coach I had worked in stress management

240
00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:13,080
and performance for entrepreneurs and I was looking for a change in career not because

241
00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:19,440
I didn't love it anymore but because I just needed more stability in my life entrepreneurship

242
00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:26,840
is quite a quite a journey of ups and downs with owning your own paycheck and I saw how

243
00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:35,760
much my sisters enjoyed and became passionate about the fire service and the more I researched

244
00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:41,680
the more I thought this is so interesting it's altruistic everything I've ever wanted

245
00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:49,200
it helps people every day is different lots of opportunity for impact and the more I researched

246
00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:56,880
the more I loved the sound of it so I was the second of my siblings to become a career

247
00:17:56,880 --> 00:18:01,880
firefighter and then my two sisters after high school went through medic programs and

248
00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:07,720
they became firefighters as well so we are all in the Portland area work for neighboring

249
00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:15,240
departments and it's it's really fun to have our own fire fam so to speak well first I

250
00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:19,160
want to go to the family dynamic because that's fascinating a lot of times when I hear

251
00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:24,440
about any any person who they lost one parent they lost both you know they weren't orphaned

252
00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:29,320
they've been through the foster system they were adopted at that young young age there's

253
00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:33,200
a feeling of why wasn't I good enough you know whether it was you know a health issue

254
00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:39,080
whatever the thing was and that can you know carry on through to adulthood also sometimes

255
00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:43,160
if if there's a fractured element to that family you know where is that role model to

256
00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:49,200
be a good mother to be a good father what was it that what was the kind of ethos or

257
00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:55,920
the the philosophy of your mother to come from you know a background that you know the

258
00:18:55,920 --> 00:19:00,760
not being gifted the kind of organic nuclear family that some people are and then to go

259
00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:09,560
and forge such a huge family herself with so many successful children my mom is my hero

260
00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:16,560
we call her Saint Teresa her name is Teresa and she really is a saint and you're so right

261
00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:27,040
the the mindset and the whole way you see life as an orphan is really different my mom

262
00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:38,000
she found faith in her last foster home so that has always really impacted me even as

263
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:46,600
a kid that you know foster foster families have the ability to create so much impact

264
00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:53,240
and literally change the trajectory of a whole life and then the lives following that and

265
00:19:53,240 --> 00:20:01,240
so my mom just she found a whole new way of living and operating and from that she went

266
00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:08,200
to a Bible college met my dad and you know had had us but she really wanted to create

267
00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:17,520
her own family and create an environment of of love and safety and nurturing and it's

268
00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:23,000
nothing short of remarkable that this woman who really didn't have any examples was able

269
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:32,240
to grow and instill in herself this ability to be the kind of person who despite the adversity

270
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:40,560
in her life is just the embodiment of of love incarnate she's one of those people that you

271
00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:44,760
talk to the people in her life and they would they would lay down in front of a bus for

272
00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:52,580
her she just is the warmest kindest most generous person with her time and I'm I'm so

273
00:20:52,580 --> 00:21:00,600
honored that she is my mom and all of my siblings feel the same way I I fear the day anyone

274
00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:07,240
ever tries to do anything to my mom because we we all would we all would go full gangster

275
00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:17,680
and just would do anything for her so that example I think really shaped so much of my

276
00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:24,000
growing up you know as the oldest of them I had this amazing role model who just gave

277
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:30,640
so much of herself for us and I think that those qualities were an example to the rest

278
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:38,240
of us on on how far you go for people who need you and I think that that's so much of

279
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:43,040
a large part of why so many of us ended up having careers you know that that really lends

280
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:45,960
to those type of strengths.

281
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:51,640
I don't think that the post-traumatic growth conversation gets anywhere near enough attention

282
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:56,200
I think in the fire service when we talk about you know trauma and PTSD it's like we'll get

283
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,720
rid of the stigma and well the stigma doesn't mean anything that just means don't be a dick

284
00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:05,520
about this topic we need to go way past that but when you hear of these people and there's

285
00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:09,880
so many on the show so many high performers that arguably some of them had an absolutely

286
00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:15,080
horrendous childhood and they went through their darkness but then usually it was a mentor

287
00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:19,560
and it could be a you know a Royal Marine recruiter it could be a female history teacher

288
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:25,000
whoever it was for these people that just at that kind of crossroads sent them down

289
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:30,360
the right path and then to then after the healing realize that you're not going to let

290
00:22:30,360 --> 00:22:35,120
whatever you know you experienced when you were younger be passed on to your children

291
00:22:35,120 --> 00:22:38,520
I think is another beautiful beautiful element it's actually kind of one of the themes of

292
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:43,080
the book that I just released but stopping the dominoes falling on that multi-generational

293
00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:48,320
trauma and being that mentor in your own home and then in your community is what we need

294
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:52,160
to hear and sadly you know it's a very divisive rhetoric out there at the moment but I think

295
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:56,840
this is the this is the hope of doing the work this is the hope of advocating for health

296
00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:00,400
and sleep and all these things that we're going to talk about is the other side of that

297
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:05,320
healing arguably is an even better person than you were before.

298
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:07,120
Absolutely.

299
00:23:07,120 --> 00:23:13,480
All right well I want to stay with you just for a second the fire camp when it comes to

300
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:21,680
again the mentorship I think that in the recruitment conversation in the diversity conversation

301
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:26,560
creating something that will remove the barriers to entry especially if it's in areas that

302
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:34,320
are underserved allows you then or allows young people to experience that profession

303
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:38,000
and figure out one of two things either I want to be a firefighter or I don't want to

304
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:43,500
be a firefighter equally as important in my opinion but now you're actually finding the

305
00:23:43,500 --> 00:23:46,920
best within these groups that maybe weren't before and obviously you know the other groups

306
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:52,040
are already you know well attended so talk to me about that fire camp experience because

307
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:56,340
over and over again those kind of programs really seem to be the solution that we need

308
00:23:56,340 --> 00:23:58,880
at the moment.

309
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:07,760
That's so true and the moment I got into the fire service I in fact I wasn't even off probation

310
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:13,780
and I wasn't allowed to participate actively in case you know there was an injury and liability

311
00:24:13,780 --> 00:24:19,980
and all the legal legalese but I did volunteer and I walked around and talked to the girls

312
00:24:19,980 --> 00:24:24,680
and did a little you know here's here's what life is like as a probationary firefighter

313
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:32,920
talked to them but funny enough I had never gone to fire camp myself I had seen my sisters

314
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:40,920
go to fire camp be impassioned I saw them you know join explorer programs that every

315
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:47,400
weekend they were at the firehouse being mentored learning how to take hydrants and throw ladders

316
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:54,520
and all these things and then one of my sisters even found a it wasn't a volunteer program

317
00:24:54,520 --> 00:25:03,400
but it was like an after school program where you applied to be a an explorer but they went

318
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:10,600
every single day after school to the firehouse so every shift at this station was involved

319
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:19,400
and you know the the difference between my journey in the fire service as a you know

320
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:27,540
as a as a new firefighter and my sisters as explorers as it was a hobby at first I feel

321
00:25:27,540 --> 00:25:36,360
like is so different because my sisters when they were 16 17 18 one they had examples of

322
00:25:36,360 --> 00:25:42,040
these female firefighters showing them how to bail out of a window or how to take a door

323
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:49,440
or how to flow water and there was in that environment with these examples there was

324
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:56,040
no question to them if they could do it or not it was just oh let me do this the first

325
00:25:56,040 --> 00:26:06,200
time okay let me do it better the second time okay and I I just so love that girls fire

326
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:15,560
camps or anyone who goes through these fire camps as a young person has the ability to

327
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:21,600
be empowered so like you said whether or not they become a firefighter or not they they

328
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:28,840
see they know they experience that they can do it and you know whether you think you can

329
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:35,160
or you can't you're right and instilling this confidence and this empowerment was really

330
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:43,520
amazing to see in my sisters enter you know for me going into academy I did a bunch of

331
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:52,200
research I did ride alongs but I had zero and I'm talking zero exposure to what the

332
00:26:52,200 --> 00:27:00,300
actual tasks job life of a firefighter was so I started academy and I had no baseline

333
00:27:00,300 --> 00:27:09,440
no framework I had a new culture vocabulary you know just tasks all of these things that

334
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:20,760
I had zero exposure to before and I was 35 when I joined and so that's that's a long

335
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:28,040
time to go in your life having done you know none of the things that I had been I had been

336
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:37,920
more soft skills communication present presenting working in sales those kind of soft skills

337
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:44,040
versus hard skills with your hands and so when I was learning all these tasks how to

338
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:52,880
take a hydrant throw a ladder it was it was can I do this not I can do this I had to completely

339
00:27:52,880 --> 00:28:06,000
change the way I oriented to my life and took take the perspective of I can do this and

340
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:13,280
maybe just not yet so instead of seeing you know failure as this permanent thing I had

341
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:20,760
to learn how to fail forward and how to make incremental progress meanwhile I was the only

342
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:27,920
female in my class and about two-thirds of my classmates all came from other experience

343
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:36,840
so there was there was a lot of resistance inner resistance that I I felt that you know

344
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:42,920
I had I really had to face my doubts and find a degree of myself that I never had before

345
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:50,080
because I just didn't have the exposure I didn't have the reps in the practice and so

346
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:56,280
I'm I'm really passionate about girls fire camps because something happens when you see

347
00:28:56,280 --> 00:29:06,240
someone like you doing something and it removes the barrier of can I the question and it makes

348
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:13,920
it takes it to a statement I can do this and so I'm I I love fire camps and you know in

349
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:18,960
Portland we have the girls fire camp every year we just had a minorities fire camp this

350
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:27,820
last summer as well and I think you're right people don't recognize the impact of representation

351
00:29:27,820 --> 00:29:34,800
and that there you know we're driving down the street in the rig and I see a little African

352
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:42,340
American girl you know with her fluffy pigtails and I wave and what what you represent to

353
00:29:42,340 --> 00:29:48,600
someone who's never seen that before can completely change their lives so I'm I'm I can get really

354
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:54,000
fired up about fire camp now it's important to hear I mean not when it comes to representation

355
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:58,920
I had a friend of mine Steve-O Michelle who's from Haitian parents Haitian immigrant parents

356
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:04,520
and he grew up in one of the worst housing areas that we had where I was a firefighter

357
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:08,400
so I used to run in there and it was literally we'd have a fire that bought up you go to

358
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:12,520
a call and you'd see families pulling the boards back of these you know supposed to

359
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:16,800
be vacant homes and living in there you know so we always knew that was one where doesn't

360
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:20,840
matter if it seems vacant we're gonna have to search it but Steve-O grew up he ended

361
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:24,880
up getting a scholarship for football for one of the colleges in Colorado and I want

362
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:29,440
to say the wrong one and pissed the other ones off but then he became a firefighter

363
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:33,900
and then bid that station where he worked to do the very thing not only was he looking

364
00:30:33,900 --> 00:30:38,320
like these children he was actually from that lineage they knew who he was and I think that

365
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:43,680
is extremely important and what the camps allow people to do is go into these areas

366
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:48,400
where there are incredible firefighter paramedics and accountants and lawyers and doctors that

367
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:53,160
are not being given that opportunity but then also setting the bar for them and saying that's

368
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:56,720
where it is if you don't reach it then maybe you're not supposed to be a firefighter and

369
00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:01,720
that's absolutely fine as well but empowering them and like you said showing them hey you

370
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:06,440
know Steve-O could do this you know whoever it is whatever kind of background you are

371
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:10,400
you can do this if you want but also come try and figure out you know it might not be

372
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:15,080
the right fit for you and I think both of those are beautiful results of this mentorship

373
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:21,680
philosophy rather than as we've seen it in the past go get me I need 50 English people

374
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:25,160
with straight teeth off you go then we can check that box you know what I mean you need

375
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:29,320
you need to actually go into the areas and challenge these young people to rise up and

376
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:34,680
I think that's the part where mentorship programs explorer programs fire camps that is what

377
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:39,160
we need especially now in this recruitment crisis.

378
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:44,120
I even think to just my own perspective is just like you said James setting getting setting

379
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:49,160
a standard so whether or not someone wants to go pursue this as a career but seeing that

380
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:53,840
people are working towards goals and setting standards I think young people really need

381
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:58,760
to see that you can't just float through life aimlessly without a goal goals are important

382
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:02,000
and also having a standard for what you're trying to accomplish needs to be there as

383
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:07,400
well so I couldn't agree more that the camps are great not only to get new folks coming

384
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:13,440
in and seeing what we do and how we help people but also to to see that people that are successful

385
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:17,160
they do have standards they do have goals that they're aiming for and young folks should

386
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:19,960
be aiming towards those two.

387
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:24,120
One of the craziest things I've seen is people lowering standards supposedly to increase

388
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:29,960
hiring and I've seen the polar opposite Anaheim where I worked in California there they would

389
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:34,440
lose 25 percent of every academy class through attrition like if you don't meet that bar

390
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:39,360
thank you so much for coming but you know they would let them go like every single class

391
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:43,560
conversely the last place I worked for you know they were known for not even having PT

392
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,960
you're not even really having an academy you come in you do HR documents you go around

393
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:51,880
a theme park ride rides and there you go you get your badge and their recruitment was pitiful

394
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:56,840
so if it truly was about standards attracting people that place that had you know was paid

395
00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:01,700
higher and had better you know working conditions would have been you know lines around the

396
00:33:01,700 --> 00:33:06,560
building but it wasn't because I think good firefighters police officers paramedics we

397
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:10,800
want to be challenged we want that bar to be high because lives are at stake so if you

398
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:15,000
have a low bar what does that say about the ethos of your department?

399
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:19,320
Right and then if you extrapolate to to our military I think what it's like 70 percent

400
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:24,240
of Americans wouldn't be able to meet the fitness standards or the old fitness standards

401
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:31,240
because now they have been changed it's a yeah it's very that needs to change that way

402
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:36,600
it needs to go back to again raising the bar because our job is important I mean we talk

403
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:42,840
about our sleep deprivation and you know after a day or two of not getting you know at least

404
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:49,640
six hours you you are essentially buzzed you're almost like you're operating drunk and well

405
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:53,840
if you don't operate normally you know at a high standard you know you're kind of mid

406
00:33:53,840 --> 00:34:00,260
level just meeting the like the bait like 70 percenter and then you're drunk right your

407
00:34:00,260 --> 00:34:04,440
capacity to make a good decision drops down to what 50 percent of where you would already

408
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:10,400
be so it's it's it's definitely important to have a standard and have some bars in place.

409
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,680
Absolutely well that's a good segue to kind of the bulk of what we're here to talk about

410
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:18,600
today so I'll stay with you for a second Jason walk me through your journey into EMS and

411
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:24,080
then fire and then at the same time what did you start seeing within yourself as far as

412
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:28,440
the impact of shift work on your acuity and overall health?

413
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:35,760
Yeah so um my introduction to the fire service I was I went to college up in northern California

414
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:42,320
I was a college athlete I was on the rowing team I was also a biology major so I really

415
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:47,600
really liked the team camaraderie component but then also too I do like the medical side

416
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:53,200
and I remember being at a family get-together with my one of my uncles who's passed now

417
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:58,400
and he was an old San Francisco fireman and he was asking what I wanted to do after graduating

418
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:05,400
and he's like well you are into the science stuff and you are you know you like team sports

419
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:09,440
and you're called athlete like why don't you look into the fire service and I hadn't really

420
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:16,240
thought about it up to that point and so I went head in on it and started applying.

421
00:35:16,240 --> 00:35:23,440
I got on with LA City back in 2015 I had no idea about the culture about LA I that was

422
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:30,640
the only Southern California department I put in for it may be Burbank too but I ended

423
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:41,800
up getting on with them and leaving the bubble of beautiful wine country where I grew up

424
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:51,160
and so with that too the call volume the type of calls the the hardcoreness of you know

425
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:56,920
if you take a nap during the day you just you don't do that as a new member you that's

426
00:35:56,920 --> 00:36:02,560
a sign of weakness that's a sign of you need to be learning your job is always the line

427
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:10,640
and it really especially hit during COVID the severity of the call volume and the changes

428
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:17,400
where I just started to go home glazed over so I'm currently engaged I have a fiance

429
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:23,880
right now getting married in two weeks but at the time you know I go home we go out to

430
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:31,360
brunch that was our thing we like to walk the dog and get brunch and I kind of had a

431
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:35,400
feeling about how I was feeling but she just one day was like hey what's wrong with you

432
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:39,900
and she's like you're just you're just not here you're just going through the motions

433
00:36:39,900 --> 00:36:45,840
and I and I knew that for about at least five months during the COVID period where I had

434
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:51,480
a to-do list in my head when I got home I had things I needed to get done and I just

435
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:56,400
wouldn't be a present partner and so we almost we're on kind of the rocks we almost ended

436
00:36:56,400 --> 00:37:06,000
up breaking up and I knew that I had to take some massive action to address it because

437
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:11,560
I didn't want to lose the person I loved and so fast forward I ended up you know going

438
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:17,120
online and I'm trying to think like it well what I need to find a way to be more present

439
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:24,040
and awake and here because I just I'm always tired I'm just chronically tired it's this

440
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:30,840
isn't gonna work out well for my personal life and I ended up coming across Christina

441
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:40,440
and her and her work and her page and I ended up being one of her first clients and it had

442
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:47,760
a drastic impact in a positive way on how I felt and I I wanted to just spread the word

443
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:54,000
like a canary with my current partners and friends at my department and fast forward

444
00:37:54,000 --> 00:38:01,320
even more I had a an idea of making her concept and her beautiful work into almost like a

445
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:06,720
module based learning system where people can access it kind of on demand and not just

446
00:38:06,720 --> 00:38:12,280
have a one-on-one coach because we're all so busy with our lives and working crazy hours

447
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:16,840
there's not a set schedule what you know if you take a martial art class home you're

448
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:22,360
never always off Tuesdays you're never always off Thursdays so how do we address that and

449
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:30,760
I brought that idea to Christina and with my background in some biohacking with you

450
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:36,840
know ice bath saunas that kind of part of the program and her her well-roundedness

451
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:44,880
with the sleep and even more it just seemed like a great way to address what we're all

452
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:51,640
silently dealing with which I think now people are a lot more vocal about but even two three

453
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:56,440
years ago it was something where you know if the suicide came up with my department

454
00:38:56,440 --> 00:39:00,760
people didn't really talk about it too much and that's just that didn't ever sit right

455
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:05,040
with me it always bothered me I talked to some of this my senior firefighters about

456
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:11,480
it and it was almost like something that just happens and you just move on and that's not

457
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:18,640
what I signed up for I'm not here to the brotherhood the sisterhood the camaraderie you should

458
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:23,360
care about the people you work with and you know if our chiefs aren't going to do that

459
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:28,800
if the city councils aren't going to do it then we need to do that as fellow firefighters

460
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:37,480
and that's why we're passionate about bringing this program to the masses it's we're gonna

461
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:41,080
we're gonna help ourselves and we almost call it like self-rescuing no one's coming for

462
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:47,200
you you have to self-rescue so if you're ever stuck in a building and who's gonna be your

463
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:51,120
best shot about getting out it's gonna be yourself you know what scenario you're in

464
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:56,680
you know some of the ways to which way you came in hopefully you're the one who's gonna

465
00:39:56,680 --> 00:40:04,800
self-rescue so that was kind of my path to kind of where we're at today so I want to

466
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:08,200
stay with you for a second before we go to Christina kind of creating this in the first

467
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:14,440
place you mentioned COVID I've had a few of the LA firefighters on here I during that

468
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:19,800
whole time just stood in the middle and was like the to me this is a real virus but the

469
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:23,920
simultaneous conversation needs to be well let's make people healthier so they can have

470
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:28,360
a healthier immune response to this and I you know my opinion everything that people

471
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:32,560
were told to do if you wrote down how can we make people more vulnerable to a disease

472
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:37,360
that was exactly what they did you know don't don't go outside don't be around people don't

473
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:41,360
exercise you know get fast food and alcohol delivered to your door and then watch Tiger

474
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:47,440
King for like 20 days straight but that being said there you know there was simultaneously

475
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:53,200
a lot of people that did die and I think arguably most were from underlying medical conditions

476
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:57,800
which was completely disregarded and shoved under the rug and not talked about to this

477
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:03,760
day and we've got fatter and sicker since but I think it's important that we hear you

478
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:08,200
know the the hot spots the area that they you know that this was a big problem that

479
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:12,480
our responders were seeing a lot of death and I think your area is certainly one of

480
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:15,880
the ones I've heard that I think it was Bo that was talking about that so what were you

481
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:19,320
seeing during the pandemic yourself because I think that's an important there's areas

482
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:23,000
that didn't really see anything but we need to hear about the ones that did.

483
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:28,560
So I work or at the time I worked in the West Adams neighborhood of LA which is just kind

484
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:34,600
on the north side of South Central it's near USC if anyone's familiar with that area and

485
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:40,840
we just happen to have a lot of convalescent homes or nursing homes and so for a good I'd

486
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:47,160
say about six months we were going on about two or three full arrests a day and one of

487
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:51,720
these convalescent homes or nursing homes they kind of I don't know specifically how

488
00:41:51,720 --> 00:41:57,840
they did this but they made that place like a COVID hops zone so people who got COVID

489
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:02,400
the older folks they would send them there and so they so they couldn't spread it to

490
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:09,000
people that didn't have the virus and so essentially my station was two blocks from that facility

491
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:14,960
so they I mean and I'm sure other places did this they would bring out the nursing home

492
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:21,080
beds to the parking lot and we would work them up there and again this was two three

493
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:29,940
four times a day for six months but after the six months it it seemed like it almost

494
00:42:29,940 --> 00:42:37,640
not completely went away but it drastically dissipated in the amount of sick folks that

495
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:46,360
we were getting so it to the extent of how long the rules were in place and there are

496
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:53,040
still some hospitals that require masks still one actually one in LA that hasn't taken anything

497
00:42:53,040 --> 00:43:02,240
back it seemed just didn't it didn't seem aligned with trying to make people healthier

498
00:43:02,240 --> 00:43:08,480
again with what you were saying and then just some of the rules were just either just not

499
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:14,840
appropriately managed and that's a whole that's a whole rabbit hole of where we can go with

500
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:20,760
that but that's just my experience being so near a super spot hot zone nursing home which

501
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:28,640
was at the norm for many stations it was just it was just all day for six months and then

502
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:35,440
interesting just drastic stop hard stop and yeah yeah well it's important for people to

503
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:38,840
hear that and I think you know again we just the best thing we can do to honor the people

504
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:43,340
that we lost was to learn from it and try and figure out what can we do differently

505
00:43:43,340 --> 00:43:47,960
and arguably making the nation healthier is a massive part of that but also you know I

506
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:52,220
know your department specifically you know we're still getting terminations from vaccine

507
00:43:52,220 --> 00:43:55,920
mandates for first responders which I I won't ask your opinions you don't have to put yourself

508
00:43:55,920 --> 00:44:00,120
out there I think that's fucking disgusting absolutely disgusting when we know the efficacy

509
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:07,360
was 50 50 at best the flip of a coin I I do have an opinion I think that's it's unacceptable

510
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:11,760
you have people that you know have gotten divorced for your department who have done

511
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:17,600
all these things you work those assigned higher days and they don't they don't get their vaccine

512
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:24,720
and they get terminated now to say could they have taken steps put in exemptions and go

513
00:44:24,720 --> 00:44:30,440
through the process well some could have but also a lot of those religious exemptions that

514
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:35,520
was a way to get out of it those got denied by the city and so that's a whole other slippery

515
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:41,240
slope of who are they to say what you're believing and then again I don't want to make that this

516
00:44:41,240 --> 00:44:47,880
conversation about that but it's just it didn't really sit right with with your beliefs and

517
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:52,640
how you want to raise your family and and all the above especially now with hindsight

518
00:44:52,640 --> 00:45:01,360
being 2020 the vaccine not being effective absolutely I had a gentleman on Greg Yacoubian

519
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:07,000
who's a retired I think he was LAPD turned attorney and he's basically the one that's

520
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:13,160
defending you know police and fire and it's just insane 2024 we know now you know the

521
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:16,840
what what was legitimate during that time and then what wasn't that they're still continuing

522
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:22,240
to terminate first responders that were selflessly holding the line with no PPE at the beginning

523
00:45:22,240 --> 00:45:27,480
and I think just shame on on the cowardice behind not being to stand up and say we were

524
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:32,680
wrong we're sorry you know everyone that was let go let's bring them back you know instead

525
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:39,080
that the fear of actually owning your own mistakes you know just shows the cowardice

526
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:44,880
and some of these leaders and I'm using air quotes well and we talked about the standard

527
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:48,840
you know showing the standard for the younger generation showing accountability I know in

528
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:54,480
our department when you make a mistake you completely own it hey I fucked up I screwed

529
00:45:54,480 --> 00:46:02,400
up it's refreshing people always like to just defuse their responsibility and when someone

530
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:08,720
just acknowledges their mistake we know whether that's personal professional whatever it is

531
00:46:08,720 --> 00:46:12,720
it's it you're kind of caught off guard and you almost want to have more sympathy for

532
00:46:12,720 --> 00:46:19,120
the person like hey that's it's okay like wow like it's just it's not seen as often

533
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:22,960
in 2024 as before and where you have good men good women who just own their mistakes

534
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:28,320
and again want to make those incremental improvements in their life and move forward and it's it's

535
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:33,520
a it's a lesson for the young folks too to see it's if if our leadership isn't doing

536
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:40,440
that then what what you know shit runs down slope right so if they're not taking accountability

537
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:46,080
then what should they expect from us absolutely well Christina I want to get to your journey

538
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:51,440
into the kind of the sleep and the the mentoring on that side but before we do the last couple

539
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:59,160
things we just touched on anything you want to add it's so interesting hearing the pre

540
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:10,080
covid world because I entered the fire service January 21 so I really have no framework for

541
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:18,560
what life was like in a fire service prior to that I only have a paradigm of post covid

542
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:27,560
and you know talking about vaccines we were required to get it in academy and it was just

543
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:33,800
if you want this job that's that's what you got to do fascinatingly enough and this isn't

544
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:43,080
this isn't anything that I can say truly from doctor scientific standpoint but I know myself

545
00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:50,400
included for firefighters who did get the vaccine who just had like weird heart stuff

546
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:58,000
randomly pop up in the last couple of years and you know the doctor that I went to I was

547
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:05,720
I thought maybe it was mono because I had this weird pain under my rib cage and it persisted

548
00:48:05,720 --> 00:48:12,880
so much I was like I'm gonna take this get a look at this and turned out it wasn't my

549
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:19,720
liver but they did find swelling in the lining of my heart and the doctor said you know I've

550
00:48:19,720 --> 00:48:25,280
actually you know this should go away on its own so if it intensifies or gets worse you

551
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:33,800
know let us know but I've actually seen this in some people who have had that shot and

552
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:40,440
so we I think that we we really don't know what the ramifications are from that and weird

553
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:47,940
things that we deal with you know that are unexplainable maybe go go is it really unexplainable

554
00:48:47,940 --> 00:48:56,000
so that's all I'll say in that regard just weird little you know coincidental yeah I

555
00:48:56,000 --> 00:49:00,440
think that's the problem is you know when when it was an environment where that was

556
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:04,280
essential you know that's one conversation but the fact they were forcing it on children

557
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:08,560
when most kids were completely asymptomatic that should never have happened I had it done

558
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:13,120
my my son had it because we traveled and went and saw my grandmother who was about to turn

559
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:18,720
five so for me it was a you know and I talked to my son about it and we we agreed okay we'll

560
00:49:18,720 --> 00:49:23,840
take this risk because if it minimizes just a little bit for you know someone and she's

561
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:27,720
obviously in a nursing home lots of other people I'm okay with that because we made

562
00:49:27,720 --> 00:49:32,200
a decision now you know fast forward a couple of months later is when all the restrictions

563
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:37,920
left and we you know probably wouldn't by that point but that being said you know you

564
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:41,560
do hear a lot of that and I actually had some arrhythmia recently and I was wondering but

565
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:46,480
I think it ended up being stress and then I was taking DHEA and I just don't think I

566
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:50,840
needed you know that at the time I think already had a good amount and when I researched at

567
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:56,940
DHEA and stress can also cause arrhythmia so I think in some areas maybe it's exasperating

568
00:49:56,940 --> 00:50:02,320
the things that we already have going on the high level of stress to see deprivation but

569
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:09,720
yeah to be forced to have something that ultimately the backstory isn't you know truthful and

570
00:50:09,720 --> 00:50:14,440
I had people on the show like one of my friends is a doctor and in the ICU it seemed like

571
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:19,880
most of the patients that passed away were unvaccinated so if it's a symptom reducer

572
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:23,680
on someone who's already chronically ill absolutely you know go for it you know if that's going

573
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:27,980
to help they're already got CHF and all these things going on but to take healthy school

574
00:50:27,980 --> 00:50:31,380
children and try and force it on them when they're not going to travel you know and then

575
00:50:31,380 --> 00:50:35,600
call them little murderers if they don't take it you just kill grandma I think that was

576
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:39,920
a disgusting disgusting element and when they said trust the science I'm sure you guys probably

577
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:44,920
had the same thing when you've been in science for a long time when you've been in medicine

578
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:48,000
and they're telling you this you're like this jars against everything I learned in medic

579
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:53,320
school and university about science like you're wrong you know it doesn't just suddenly drop

580
00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:58,480
down at six feet you know wash your hands wash your hands it's an airborne virus and

581
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:01,560
then to point that so-and-so you can't come in because you're gonna pass it when it's

582
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:06,720
everywhere that's what I know as I told you before we hit record I've got a cold today

583
00:51:06,720 --> 00:51:10,840
you know who do I blame for that you know what I mean what do I name it it's this is

584
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:15,640
the insanity so all we can do and people say it's you know about politics it's not politics

585
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:20,320
it's the wellness of the nation all we can do is take these little elements and go if

586
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:25,840
this happened again what we do what we excuse me what will we do differently and then also

587
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:32,640
in the simultaneous conversation why are we not now bolstering local farmers to grow organic

588
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:37,560
food putting PE programs back in schools maybe putting some money into pedestrianizing inner

589
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:42,560
cities you know areas where we can create more movement better nutrition lower stress

590
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:48,720
improved sleep so that our population is less susceptible to whatever virus treats the planet

591
00:51:48,720 --> 00:51:54,480
but we haven't it was all brushed under the rug and no one wants to talk about it now

592
00:51:54,480 --> 00:52:05,960
it's it's they don't they don't want to talk about it and just real quickly that's kind

593
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:12,200
of just really extrapolating before you get anything I think really with our program we

594
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:20,160
want to do is address address these things because it's and again with wishful thinking

595
00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:26,000
how I wouldn't we would maybe see this program going is educating and having firefighters

596
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:30,320
improve their health but also to once they learn these incremental things that they can

597
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:34,680
incorporate into their lifestyles when they go on these chronically sick people in these

598
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:40,280
underserved areas the things that are now working for them that are allopathic that

599
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:45,540
can go to these the worst chronic places in these communities and those folks can start

600
00:52:45,540 --> 00:52:50,940
maybe doing some meditation getting some morning sunshine grounding doing these things that

601
00:52:50,940 --> 00:52:58,200
are at zero cost and making their lives that much better so in my wishful thinking world

602
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:05,700
is our this program reaches the masses with our fire service EMS etc and now these little

603
00:53:05,700 --> 00:53:13,760
bubbles of higher health in these underserved neighborhoods start to start to come up and

604
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:20,560
that's again I mean that's that's where I hope this ends up going yeah I do but please

605
00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:25,680
sorry no it's okay to that point Jason you know firefighters historically have been pillars

606
00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:35,600
in their community so I I find it such a tragedy and it makes my heart so heavy that firefighters

607
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:41,960
aren't experiencing health they're really suffering they're putting so much on the line

608
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:53,440
to hold the line and yet it's it it's coming with such a high cost so if in fact with these

609
00:53:53,440 --> 00:54:02,860
researched methods with as Jason said allopathic forms of self-rescue we can begin to shift

610
00:54:02,860 --> 00:54:09,480
these lives it's going to have a ripple effect you know the the firefighter who wants to

611
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:15,260
go on his morning run getting sunshine getting movement let me bring my little five-year-old

612
00:54:15,260 --> 00:54:21,160
she can bike while I run there's there's a ripple effect of you know when I started the

613
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:27,540
sleep practices for myself I did it for a couple months by myself and it was so life-changing

614
00:54:27,540 --> 00:54:32,440
my husband was like oh you know maybe I'll start doing this with you too and he's a veteran

615
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:39,700
you know who had who served in Afghanistan has a TBI had PTSD he started doing these

616
00:54:39,700 --> 00:54:47,680
things with me too and so the ripple effect is so incredible when you start with someone

617
00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:59,980
who is a figure a foundational key player in communities like firefighters are so and

618
00:54:59,980 --> 00:55:06,160
at this point I don't think that we can really have much faith in government entities to

619
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:10,140
tell us what is going to be best even with the nutritional guidelines that came out not

620
00:55:10,140 --> 00:55:19,320
long ago you know it's just ridiculous like that's and I think we all are seeing that

621
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:30,180
I call it corporatism corporatism is really tainting the the government in a way that

622
00:55:30,180 --> 00:55:35,040
you know our best interests are not at heart and so we have to take it upon ourselves and

623
00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:42,440
the cost of the lifestyle that we have in the fire service is as such that there there

624
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:50,600
now is no choice but for us to do everything that we can to mitigate and reverse because

625
00:55:50,600 --> 00:55:56,440
nobody is coming for us it's very very clear the phrase I came up with a while ago was

626
00:55:56,440 --> 00:56:01,760
demastocracy it's not a democracy it's an aristocracy that gives us the facade of having

627
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:06,260
an impact on it but ultimately it's a bunch of billionaires and millionaires lining their

628
00:56:06,260 --> 00:56:12,320
own pockets at the expense of the rest of the people so anyway I digress so I want to

629
00:56:12,320 --> 00:56:17,960
get with stay with you Christina for a second before entering the fire service as you said

630
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:22,280
you were coaching you're doing some of these other elements prior to putting the uniform

631
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:27,860
on what was your perspective then of sleep and performance with some of these business

632
00:56:27,860 --> 00:56:32,280
people that you are working with and then what was your kind of aha moment as you put

633
00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:41,100
on the uniform yourself yeah this is a really really interesting story the more deep therapy

634
00:56:41,100 --> 00:56:49,000
I do in my life the more I see the habit patterns that continue to play out in my life so I

635
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:57,040
you know oldest of ten I was I was in a leadership position before I knew what that was I was

636
00:56:57,040 --> 00:57:02,340
in a position where I was taking care of people before I even knew that I had to be taken

637
00:57:02,340 --> 00:57:14,520
care of and that create that recipe created this version of a person that I was just full

638
00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:22,640
send and in my early 20s I did a lot of nonprofit work I did a lot of international travel and

639
00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:27,880
I did school on the road before online school was a thing so that I could continue doing

640
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:38,560
this nonprofit work I had zero idea and zero clue that our physical health has the impact

641
00:57:38,560 --> 00:57:45,960
that it does on our emotional health and vice versa so ultimately I became a coach at you

642
00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:51,920
know the when you know everything at 22 it's the perfect time to become a coach but I became

643
00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:59,000
a coach really really young I had coaches in high school I I really loved the permission

644
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:03,480
that we had to have deep conversations and I thought that would be a great career for

645
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:15,280
me that said I started with career coaching and then as I built my own businesses I went

646
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:23,760
into the line of business and entrepreneurs I was such a hard worker I had such high achieving

647
00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:32,080
goals I ran myself into the ground I did not know that there were stop lights and stop

648
00:58:32,080 --> 00:58:41,920
signs that the body gives us trying to get our attention I I thought that my worth came

649
00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:49,440
from what I could make of my life and I thought that I had to give my all and my everything

650
00:58:49,440 --> 00:59:03,360
to achieve that and so ultimately I worked myself sick and you know it's so funny I just

651
00:59:03,360 --> 00:59:10,560
wrote an article finished an article yesterday about reframing stress I became a stress coach

652
00:59:10,560 --> 00:59:15,840
because I thought I I learned and knew how to deal with stress great I I thought that

653
00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:22,320
I was just you know no I'm never stressed I had no idea that stress doesn't simply

654
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:31,160
happen in the mind stress happens to the body and unfortunately we have a lifestyle in which

655
00:59:31,160 --> 00:59:40,000
we take advantage of and overload our nervous systems and that means that the body is going

656
00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:44,800
to speak up at some point and it's going to scream and do anything it can to get your

657
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:55,360
attention and so for me I had GI issues really as a teenager now I know that I was just bottling

658
00:59:55,360 --> 01:00:05,480
absolutely everything that I wasn't consciously dealing with into my GI track and when I traveled

659
01:00:05,480 --> 01:00:10,360
I you know picked up all these different parasites, bacteria, all these things I didn't have a

660
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:19,600
healthy immune system and so long story short I was at the peak of my coaching career I

661
01:00:19,600 --> 01:00:27,640
had over a hundred clients I freaking loved my life and I started getting really really

662
01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:36,840
sick and ultimately it was you know sometimes the universe just aligns things that you can't

663
01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:44,600
deny and it gives you all the all the signs you need to finally pay attention it was Easter

664
01:00:44,600 --> 01:00:53,400
and it was Easter 2015 and my husband I were in the grocery store grabbing something I

665
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:59,880
saw a magazine I think it was People magazine with Avril Lavigne on the covers and the story

666
01:00:59,880 --> 01:01:09,000
was that she had Lyme disease and it clicked in my head that literally one year ago to

667
01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:14,040
the day the last Easter I was in the backwoods of Missouri with my family I came home and

668
01:01:14,040 --> 01:01:21,760
I had a tick bite and I thought oh my god could this be why I've been sick turns out

669
01:01:21,760 --> 01:01:30,560
it was so my doctor essentially said you need to stop everything you're doing and we need

670
01:01:30,560 --> 01:01:42,240
to treat this I unfortunately again politics insurance government entities the woven intersection

671
01:01:42,240 --> 01:01:47,460
of all of those things I did not have all the biomarkers for insurance to pay for my

672
01:01:47,460 --> 01:01:54,760
treatments and so we had to pay all out of pocket it ended up being close to $30,000

673
01:01:54,760 --> 01:02:02,560
of treatments and I literally would go to work every day I worked as a nanny because

674
01:02:02,560 --> 01:02:09,200
holding babies was about all the energy I had and I would walk around in so much pain

675
01:02:09,200 --> 01:02:15,120
and I would literally go to work cry on my way to work because I felt so horrible put

676
01:02:15,120 --> 01:02:22,000
in the day at work get my paycheck pay my my treatment bills this went on for two and

677
01:02:22,000 --> 01:02:27,720
a half years before I was really fortunate to get into the clinic of a man named Dr.

678
01:02:27,720 --> 01:02:32,600
Roger Billica he had been the director of medicine at NASA for 10 years and he had a

679
01:02:32,600 --> 01:02:39,240
clinic for Lyme patients and cancer patients and so I went there it was a month treatment

680
01:02:39,240 --> 01:02:45,920
you go in every day it's almost like dialysis I got a pick line and I had 30 days of treatments

681
01:02:45,920 --> 01:02:52,040
at the end of which I was completely cleared of the Lyme disease and the tick-borne infections

682
01:02:52,040 --> 01:02:59,040
which I I had it less than three years so I was extremely fortunate to have everything

683
01:02:59,040 --> 01:03:05,640
line up people who have it 10 years like it's it's kind of it's just a horrible horrible

684
01:03:05,640 --> 01:03:14,080
horrible illness and so I finished my treatment literally the summer that my sisters found

685
01:03:14,080 --> 01:03:21,340
fire camp and I because of what had happened in that journey of treating Lyme disease I

686
01:03:21,340 --> 01:03:29,060
suddenly had to prioritize my body and my health and what I was going to do to nurture

687
01:03:29,060 --> 01:03:37,120
my health and really fight this illness and so I I put so much time work effort and intention

688
01:03:37,120 --> 01:03:43,760
into in to a degree yes I had all these treatments but willing myself every day every day seeing

689
01:03:43,760 --> 01:03:51,600
myself as a healthy person saying I am going to get better and then prioritizing that mind

690
01:03:51,600 --> 01:03:58,680
body connection that was that was when everything changed in my life that had to change that

691
01:03:58,680 --> 01:04:08,160
had created the lifestyle that that suddenly you know not everybody gets a tick bite and

692
01:04:08,160 --> 01:04:15,360
has Lyme disease but I I had such a weak immune system because my lifestyle so joining the

693
01:04:15,360 --> 01:04:21,160
fire service it's really funny now looking back I'm like yes I am the type of person

694
01:04:21,160 --> 01:04:26,760
that would would get over an illness and say huh what do I want to do why don't I go into

695
01:04:26,760 --> 01:04:34,160
firefighting because if my body hasn't been through enough this is perfect but I really

696
01:04:34,160 --> 01:04:42,560
wanted a job in which I was forced to prioritize my health in a way that I hadn't prior and

697
01:04:42,560 --> 01:04:49,680
so you know that you had to use your body in a way to to be strong to be high performing

698
01:04:49,680 --> 01:04:56,880
that really appealed to me and I had never you know I my dad's black my mom's white Hispanic

699
01:04:56,880 --> 01:05:02,720
and so I didn't look like the other girls growing up the you know the typical beauties

700
01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:07,080
of society like I always looked different and I really felt that I felt that with my

701
01:05:07,080 --> 01:05:13,440
body type and I absolutely loved loved loved the idea that I could use my body for good

702
01:05:13,440 --> 01:05:23,400
and I could look at my body as something that was to be proud of and dessert like it deserved

703
01:05:23,400 --> 01:05:30,080
this caretaking and so that was that was a personal motivation for me to get into the

704
01:05:30,080 --> 01:05:35,240
fire service and one that as I was making my journey into the fire service you know

705
01:05:35,240 --> 01:05:41,840
I worked out hard but I also prioritized my sleep and I was really keyed on my nutrition

706
01:05:41,840 --> 01:05:49,440
and so the lifestyle that I had to create fighting Lyme disease now became such an asset

707
01:05:49,440 --> 01:05:56,280
and a tool for me in getting into the process like I said I had absolutely no clue that

708
01:05:56,280 --> 01:06:01,480
as a firefighter you're not you're not starting from an average baseline you're getting hammered

709
01:06:01,480 --> 01:06:08,000
dropping that down and trying to mitigate to come a little bit back up and so I knew

710
01:06:08,000 --> 01:06:16,240
that I probably would have to do more to recover than the average person but I had no idea

711
01:06:16,240 --> 01:06:23,320
just how much more and in Academy I started getting a bit of a sense of what that would

712
01:06:23,320 --> 01:06:28,760
would be like but I still wasn't you know I we weren't doing shift work yet and so

713
01:06:28,760 --> 01:06:35,680
I didn't realize the impact that sleep had on everything else every other system in the

714
01:06:35,680 --> 01:06:42,920
mind and the body so my journey into the fire service and and just prior to that really

715
01:06:42,920 --> 01:06:53,080
prepared me to see I think with more maybe insight because of my prior experience with

716
01:06:53,080 --> 01:06:59,760
Lyme disease and every day honestly every day I can be on the line I'm getting a little

717
01:06:59,760 --> 01:07:05,660
choked up every day I can be on the line is really an honor because I don't know what

718
01:07:05,660 --> 01:07:12,040
with what my body has been through I don't know how long it will it will be okay being

719
01:07:12,040 --> 01:07:18,320
on the line and you know compounding issue after issue but but that is why I I have to

720
01:07:18,320 --> 01:07:23,200
model and practice what I preach and that's why when I started sharing on social media

721
01:07:23,200 --> 01:07:29,640
it wasn't because I wanted to really do anything with it or go anywhere it was because I had

722
01:07:29,640 --> 01:07:33,640
to do these things for myself and I knew that if it works for me it would work for other

723
01:07:33,640 --> 01:07:37,600
people who you know they they were normal people they didn't have the ravages of an

724
01:07:37,600 --> 01:07:41,440
illness like I had and so if it worked if it worked for me it would work for someone

725
01:07:41,440 --> 01:07:48,760
else and ultimately that's why and how I became so passionate about sleep so it was a really

726
01:07:48,760 --> 01:07:54,200
unique journey and I'm really honored that I got I got to walk that road but it was it

727
01:07:54,200 --> 01:08:00,360
was a really really difficult path and I think that when you lose your health you have so

728
01:08:00,360 --> 01:08:06,680
much clarity for why this needs to be a priority and why other things in your life just have

729
01:08:06,680 --> 01:08:11,480
to come secondary to to you taking care of yourself I think that also is a little bit

730
01:08:11,480 --> 01:08:16,760
of an egotistical thing or you know an issue for the ego that if you're not willing to

731
01:08:16,760 --> 01:08:21,980
take care of yourself there there are reasons for that and those reasons we have to start

732
01:08:21,980 --> 01:08:28,200
taking a really hard look at because the body does keep the score and there will come a

733
01:08:28,200 --> 01:08:37,280
day a time when we're faced with with those unresolved issues that we just did not take

734
01:08:37,280 --> 01:08:44,560
the time for I think one of the biggest hooks hopefully from all the people I've had from

735
01:08:44,560 --> 01:08:48,680
the sleep medicine world on I got to coming back on again Alison Breger and Richard Markwald

736
01:08:48,680 --> 01:08:54,920
who are respectively the army and Navy sleep experts but I had Sarah Jenke on as well who's

737
01:08:54,920 --> 01:08:59,800
kind of one of our fire research people and even though again she admitted that there

738
01:08:59,800 --> 01:09:04,760
was almost no research on sleep deprivation and shift work and the impact on our acuity

739
01:09:04,760 --> 01:09:11,120
on our you know chronic disease what was interesting is the reproductive health was glaring or

740
01:09:11,120 --> 01:09:17,160
ill health and so I've said this on here before if you think that you know you'll sleep where

741
01:09:17,160 --> 01:09:21,080
you're dead you know I had some troll comment the other day when I put something out that

742
01:09:21,080 --> 01:09:25,800
he's an oil worker and he works 86 hours a week and why are we whining and he probably

743
01:09:25,800 --> 01:09:29,080
doesn't he's probably a little bitch that lives in his parents basement but even if

744
01:09:29,080 --> 01:09:34,360
you do like if your masculinity is defined by the number of hours you work then I feel

745
01:09:34,360 --> 01:09:40,400
really sad for your husband you know what I mean or whatever he sleeps with but the

746
01:09:40,400 --> 01:09:48,760
point being that you know we we've had this this kind of machismo about oh I'll be okay

747
01:09:48,760 --> 01:09:53,760
but once you understand that your illness is actually being passed on to your children

748
01:09:53,760 --> 01:09:58,600
that we are seeing higher you know issues when it comes to infertility when it comes

749
01:09:58,600 --> 01:10:02,200
to childhood disease when it comes to you know Down syndrome and autism and all these

750
01:10:02,200 --> 01:10:07,480
other things I think hopefully that reframes it's like it's not about you it's about them

751
01:10:07,480 --> 01:10:12,860
and obviously hopefully we'll fix you too but if we do get this kind of like fairy tale

752
01:10:12,860 --> 01:10:18,560
mentality where you know it's a badge of honor but I think once you refrain that to everyone

753
01:10:18,560 --> 01:10:23,800
else and as Jason was alluding to you know your marriage you know your relationships

754
01:10:23,800 --> 01:10:29,500
with your spouse with your children that hopefully will kind of knock people off their perch

755
01:10:29,500 --> 01:10:34,240
and make them realize that this is this is you know an absolutely essential conversation

756
01:10:34,240 --> 01:10:41,000
you've got to debunk that you know machismo bullshit that we've been telling ourselves.

757
01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:52,640
I'm so curious where the conversation began that we have more worth by the things that

758
01:10:52,640 --> 01:11:01,240
we endure whether those things are valuable or not you know sleep debt that doesn't do

759
01:11:01,240 --> 01:11:11,480
anything positive for anyone we live through it because we've taken you know this oath

760
01:11:11,480 --> 01:11:16,080
that we are going to show up for people on their worst days and when they have no one

761
01:11:16,080 --> 01:11:24,320
but you know a normal life unless you know your job for some reason requires that and

762
01:11:24,320 --> 01:11:29,560
even when it does I think we have to take a hard look at why why do we think that this

763
01:11:29,560 --> 01:11:39,400
is a good thing why do we think that putting our bodies through this is hunky dory and

764
01:11:39,400 --> 01:11:46,920
that badge of honor I personally didn't necessarily feel like it was a badge of honor but I wanted

765
01:11:46,920 --> 01:11:52,780
to do so much with my life I didn't want to waste a moment of my life and so if that exchange

766
01:11:52,780 --> 01:12:00,160
meant I got less sleep so be it but quality of life is also a part of the conversation

767
01:12:00,160 --> 01:12:11,560
that it gets dramatically overlooked like Jason I that my relationship was ultimately

768
01:12:11,560 --> 01:12:19,240
the reason why I put research and effort into I need to find a solution for this because

769
01:12:19,240 --> 01:12:24,840
a year and a half after getting into shift work I wasn't I didn't recognize myself I

770
01:12:24,840 --> 01:12:33,840
had always been a positive motivating gregarious generous you know open-hearted person and

771
01:12:33,840 --> 01:12:40,320
when I was coming home after shifts my husband and I would get into the crazy like we'd never

772
01:12:40,320 --> 01:12:45,280
even argued before really like we'd have some discussions about things but like true arguments

773
01:12:45,280 --> 01:12:50,960
no and we were getting into our good arguments about stupid things and I would have things

774
01:12:50,960 --> 01:12:57,280
coming out of my mouth that I never even had as a conscious thought before you know where

775
01:12:57,280 --> 01:13:01,360
you're like oh I shouldn't say this thing okay I won't let me say something like it

776
01:13:01,360 --> 01:13:07,520
I didn't even I didn't recognize the thoughts that were coming into my head and so for me

777
01:13:07,520 --> 01:13:12,920
that's when I knew that that something had to change because I was starting to lose myself

778
01:13:12,920 --> 01:13:18,760
and if I if I wanted to you know stay with my partner and let alone be able to recover

779
01:13:18,760 --> 01:13:26,240
myself this is clearly the answer and I knew that sleep would be the core reason because

780
01:13:26,240 --> 01:13:31,880
I had when I first got on the line I'd hired a biohacker one of the you know the biggest

781
01:13:31,880 --> 01:13:37,320
biohackers in the world to put together a protocol nutrition fitness recovery program

782
01:13:37,320 --> 01:13:42,720
for me it was four thousand dollars but I was like I'm in this job I want to be able

783
01:13:42,720 --> 01:13:47,360
to do it I want to be able to do it to the best of my ability I want to you know be healthy

784
01:13:47,360 --> 01:13:53,640
and with everything I went through I need a plan and at the end of three months not

785
01:13:53,640 --> 01:14:00,080
much had changed I was supposed to work with him for six and he he messaged me and was

786
01:14:00,080 --> 01:14:05,640
like I think that you're not going to get anywhere you want to go so long as you're

787
01:14:05,640 --> 01:14:13,840
not sleeping and so that really was my motivation for you know doing research and just like

788
01:14:13,840 --> 01:14:18,720
I have to find a way because if I don't I'm not going to be able to stay in this job.

789
01:14:18,720 --> 01:14:19,720
Absolutely.

790
01:14:19,720 --> 01:14:25,120
Well Jason let's get back to you you mentioned obviously about the kind of downward spiral

791
01:14:25,120 --> 01:14:32,560
and it being a danger to your family dynamic I want to get to kind of the the environment

792
01:14:32,560 --> 01:14:35,960
that we're in now and then we'll actually talk about the tools that you guys have developed

793
01:14:35,960 --> 01:14:39,960
as far as you know people listening and the element of ownership that we can have on our

794
01:14:39,960 --> 01:14:45,760
own you know sleep hygiene and all these other areas but Jason in in your environment now

795
01:14:45,760 --> 01:14:50,960
what does your work week look like and then talk to me about the impact if any of the

796
01:14:50,960 --> 01:14:56,480
recruitment crisis on overtime mandatories those kind of things in your department.

797
01:14:56,480 --> 01:15:08,320
So my current work environment and schedule is a bit unique I because of covid I kind

798
01:15:08,320 --> 01:15:12,960
of had a realization that time just will keep moving forward it was what three four years

799
01:15:12,960 --> 01:15:18,600
of just all not seeing family friends all this all the above and I noticed my parents

800
01:15:18,600 --> 01:15:25,960
starting to age I noticed my brother and sister feeling disconnected from me and that made

801
01:15:25,960 --> 01:15:32,680
me really sad and I just really had a recalibration of reprioritizing what was important to me

802
01:15:32,680 --> 01:15:38,320
it wasn't promoting it wasn't living by the beach which I do love the beach it was my

803
01:15:38,320 --> 01:15:49,280
family and I decided to move back to northern California so with that being said though

804
01:15:49,280 --> 01:15:56,720
the department I work for we have a very we don't share pension you can't move to different

805
01:15:56,720 --> 01:16:00,400
departments there's only like one other southern California department where your pension can

806
01:16:00,400 --> 01:16:11,900
move to and so I I'm still still working in Los Angeles and so my schedule now is I try

807
01:16:11,900 --> 01:16:18,480
to do four or five six days and then I'm off for about two weeks I try to do like today

808
01:16:18,480 --> 01:16:25,720
I'm recording a podcast I'll try to do a 72 off one another 72 now is that something that

809
01:16:25,720 --> 01:16:34,880
I recommend to people I don't but where I was at in my career having gotten hired in

810
01:16:34,880 --> 01:16:42,760
Los Angeles and my family being in San Francisco and making a sacrifice because anywhere you

811
01:16:42,760 --> 01:16:49,000
slice the cake our so the program we do and the process what we end up working through

812
01:16:49,000 --> 01:16:54,720
that'll help you but six days is six days it's you can't cut that you're still away

813
01:16:54,720 --> 01:17:00,720
from your family or you're at shift work so that is a sacrifice but my priority was my

814
01:17:00,720 --> 01:17:05,560
family and being being able to take care of my parents having relationship my brother

815
01:17:05,560 --> 01:17:13,120
and sister and so I normally do like a six and twelve with the day off in between so

816
01:17:13,120 --> 01:17:16,560
that's kind of where I'm at currently and then you throw on top of that I'm getting

817
01:17:16,560 --> 01:17:21,720
married here again pretty soon so I'm trying to work extra days to have that time off for

818
01:17:21,720 --> 01:17:27,880
the honeymoon and you know the time after the wedding all the above so now I again so

819
01:17:27,880 --> 01:17:33,720
I don't recommend that if your family's near where you work don't do that but that's just

820
01:17:33,720 --> 01:17:39,040
the boat I'm in and that's that's kind of where I'm at with it so that aside I've got

821
01:17:39,040 --> 01:17:43,960
friends in Anaheim that I think they lived in Idaho and they would work for each other

822
01:17:43,960 --> 01:17:47,720
so yeah I don't recommend it at all and the other seat goes against you I don't we talk

823
01:17:47,720 --> 01:17:53,720
about that being said if you were living in LA County what would your work week look like

824
01:17:53,720 --> 01:17:58,960
and then what is the incidence of overtime and mandatory overtime at the moment oh so

825
01:17:58,960 --> 01:18:03,200
what is it normally what is it what if you were if you were living locally you know what

826
01:18:03,200 --> 01:18:07,680
would it look like what what was your base work week number of hours and then what are

827
01:18:07,680 --> 01:18:13,920
people being forced to work if any at all so typically we do so we do 24 here in Los

828
01:18:13,920 --> 01:18:19,880
Angeles so we do a day on day off day on day off day on and four days off and typically

829
01:18:19,880 --> 01:18:25,960
two days a month we get a sign higher days that's the new way it works and typically

830
01:18:25,960 --> 01:18:32,080
there a lot of them are on weekends they throw in some weekday days as well but it's an additional

831
01:18:32,080 --> 01:18:38,880
two days a month so that ends up being around 11 days or so throughout throughout the month

832
01:18:38,880 --> 01:18:44,400
but the kicker there and I'm sure this is people have the same issue is their non-pensionable

833
01:18:44,400 --> 01:18:53,960
days so these extra force overtime days which are a work requirement they don't count towards

834
01:18:53,960 --> 01:19:01,680
retirement which that is something that our union it's not it's a lot of grumbling from

835
01:19:01,680 --> 01:19:07,280
the membership but it's something that's not really being pursued and that's that's a big

836
01:19:07,280 --> 01:19:12,560
problem that's a big problem so you end up working again two extra days a month that's

837
01:19:12,560 --> 01:19:19,200
what 22 days a year so that's an extra two months throughout the year you're working

838
01:19:19,200 --> 01:19:24,520
which could otherwise be going to retiring that much earlier and again we all know or

839
01:19:24,520 --> 01:19:29,380
if you guys don't know the statistic about firefighters who work for a major metropolitan

840
01:19:29,380 --> 01:19:36,600
department 30 years the average retirement and if you guys don't know that's six years

841
01:19:36,600 --> 01:19:42,480
so every year after you're 20 it's it's a lot more steeper of a decline on how much

842
01:19:42,480 --> 01:19:48,160
long how long you laughed after retirement so to say that those mandatory work required

843
01:19:48,160 --> 01:19:53,320
overtime days aren't being pushed towards your pension to me that's unacceptable that's

844
01:19:53,320 --> 01:19:58,240
completely unacceptable yeah well what's unacceptable to me is it's a 56-hour workweeks I worked

845
01:19:58,240 --> 01:20:03,280
anaheim was kelly but it was like a four then a six so you'd actually do four 24s you know

846
01:20:03,280 --> 01:20:09,720
with one in between and and then so every other week you're working at 80 80 hour week

847
01:20:09,720 --> 01:20:13,560
you know with that mandatory I love the rebranding rather than saying mandatory overtime what's

848
01:20:13,560 --> 01:20:19,680
it called again assigned a sign hire oh that sounds beautiful I love that anyway I think

849
01:20:19,680 --> 01:20:24,740
the conversation needs to be why the hell are the people that you need to scream towards

850
01:20:24,740 --> 01:20:30,240
your house on your worst day working more than 40 42 hours a week and this is why I

851
01:20:30,240 --> 01:20:36,640
think the 24 72 has to be the conversation and I think we are having and I'm flogging

852
01:20:36,640 --> 01:20:41,600
a dead horse by saying this but I've said it so much but it's important we are having

853
01:20:41,600 --> 01:20:46,540
a recruitment crisis because for example the young girls come out of fire camp all fired

854
01:20:46,540 --> 01:20:50,880
up and then they look on paper about what it's like to be a firefighter and it's 56

855
01:20:50,880 --> 01:20:55,480
hours a week and every other week is 80 hours a week and then you have other companies you

856
01:20:55,480 --> 01:20:59,320
know and they're like oh this is a 40 hour week and they have you know benefits and all

857
01:20:59,320 --> 01:21:03,760
this where are you gonna go if you and for three of us were looking and then they didn't

858
01:21:03,760 --> 01:21:07,680
tell us what the jobs were we just saw the benefits on paper and all of them were service

859
01:21:07,680 --> 01:21:13,160
positions would you go for the 80 hour every other week profession that you wouldn't you

860
01:21:13,160 --> 01:21:17,740
absolutely wouldn't so not only is this a firefighter health conversation this is actually

861
01:21:17,740 --> 01:21:23,540
a financial conversation too because all these overtime spots could you know easily fill

862
01:21:23,540 --> 01:21:28,240
an entire shift and still have money left over to put the fourth person back on a rig

863
01:21:28,240 --> 01:21:34,060
open up a brown date station etc etc so this is you know I think the argument is not even

864
01:21:34,060 --> 01:21:37,620
though we need to get a pension for that one is to get you guys back home with your family

865
01:21:37,620 --> 01:21:41,140
more often and back in your beds which is obviously a big part of this conversation

866
01:21:41,140 --> 01:21:42,140
today.

867
01:21:42,140 --> 01:21:48,620
Right yeah and I mean on both ends so I do think basic financial literacy and that's

868
01:21:48,620 --> 01:21:51,800
something that we're hoping to incorporate into the program very just very just touch

869
01:21:51,800 --> 01:21:57,240
on it and go but how many of you of either of you or any of you listening how many of

870
01:21:57,240 --> 01:22:02,560
you were giving given any type of orientation about basic financial literacy and I almost

871
01:22:02,560 --> 01:22:07,760
think it's insidious because a lot of these young guys buy these brand new $70,000 Raptor

872
01:22:07,760 --> 01:22:13,100
trucks right but what's what ends up happening because you have that or a boat and when you're

873
01:22:13,100 --> 01:22:18,520
22 years old well you you need to work those overtime days it's not it's not an argument

874
01:22:18,520 --> 01:22:22,460
of if you're gonna pick them up so now you have to follow that dangling carrot you have

875
01:22:22,460 --> 01:22:26,720
no option you have no option so all of a sudden you're a hundred two hundred thousand dollars

876
01:22:26,720 --> 01:22:32,740
in debt you're gonna work five six seven days extra a month and that has a toll you pay

877
01:22:32,740 --> 01:22:39,800
the piper and if these young guys were taught how to set themselves up for financial literacy

878
01:22:39,800 --> 01:22:44,800
or success they wouldn't have to pick up those extra seven days they could work those one

879
01:22:44,800 --> 01:22:49,160
or two extra days and be fine and have a great family life they wouldn't be all withered

880
01:22:49,160 --> 01:22:57,540
and burnt out at 26 27 years old which it's it's all too common now at least where I'm

881
01:22:57,540 --> 01:23:02,180
working yeah well just to add I want to go to Christina next but the other thing in this

882
01:23:02,180 --> 01:23:06,080
conversation about our longevity which I keep hearing the same thing and I don't think it's

883
01:23:06,080 --> 01:23:10,740
an actual study but it's so anecdotal it's so observational that you know it seems to

884
01:23:10,740 --> 01:23:16,100
be you know legitimate but you got the five six years after retirement or you've got I've

885
01:23:16,100 --> 01:23:21,140
seen another one 12 years younger than the average civilian but if you think about the

886
01:23:21,140 --> 01:23:26,300
men and women that stand on that grinder in the academy I would argue that they are probably

887
01:23:26,300 --> 01:23:31,060
some of the most physically and mentally resilient people in an entire community so we should

888
01:23:31,060 --> 01:23:35,920
be lasting a lot longer than the quote-unquote average person which makes those statistics

889
01:23:35,920 --> 01:23:42,300
even more haunting that's a great point because like you said like of those folks who are

890
01:23:42,300 --> 01:23:48,580
applying again these are people who are at least somewhat mindful of what their goals

891
01:23:48,580 --> 01:23:53,660
are and where they're going and if they're only lasting six years it's how would a normal

892
01:23:53,660 --> 01:24:00,540
civilian do I mean you know you throw on top of that suicide and that's all it's just it's

893
01:24:00,540 --> 01:24:05,900
not a pretty pretty scenario no but we can change it and this is the point I think we're

894
01:24:05,900 --> 01:24:11,700
at a paradigm shift now and I say to people you can be one of two leaders now and I'm

895
01:24:11,700 --> 01:24:15,700
gonna say leader from a firefighter position all the way through to city manager you can

896
01:24:15,700 --> 01:24:20,660
either be the person who everyone will look back 10 years from now going that's the person

897
01:24:20,660 --> 01:24:25,860
that changed our department that's the person that started saving firefighter lives or you

898
01:24:25,860 --> 01:24:30,460
can be the leader that was at the helm when the ship sank because we are there so rather

899
01:24:30,460 --> 01:24:34,340
than be doom and gloom look at it as all right here's your sign here's your opportunity to

900
01:24:34,340 --> 01:24:41,460
make that change and just real quick so on that note right now I'm working on a sauna

901
01:24:41,460 --> 01:24:47,460
ice bath work group for LA city and we are at a point where we can be really front like

902
01:24:47,460 --> 01:24:54,740
leaders of having policy around sauna use and ice baths and it's it's something that

903
01:24:54,740 --> 01:25:00,860
I think is really exciting but on the flip side Beverly Hills just real quick I talked

904
01:25:00,860 --> 01:25:06,740
to some of their members and they had already installed some saunas and their chief told

905
01:25:06,740 --> 01:25:12,180
them to scratch it gave no reason and it was because he just didn't he didn't he didn't

906
01:25:12,180 --> 01:25:16,780
want them there he can he can give any any type of reason for it so again like you said

907
01:25:16,780 --> 01:25:19,980
there James it's like there's an inflection point where do you want to go with it do we

908
01:25:19,980 --> 01:25:25,540
want to start being progressive in the sense of being mindful of our workforce and morale

909
01:25:25,540 --> 01:25:29,980
or do we just want to just go the complete other way and be an IGM or is what we call

910
01:25:29,980 --> 01:25:35,860
it it's an I get mine where it's your way or the highway there's no conversation going

911
01:25:35,860 --> 01:25:43,060
on and there's no I guess foresight on how this will end up going for your your membership

912
01:25:43,060 --> 01:25:50,500
so we're at a crossroads for sure and I'm hoping we take the high room absolutely I've

913
01:25:50,500 --> 01:25:55,140
had some very just to put it you know the glass huffle I've had some very exciting conversations

914
01:25:55,140 --> 01:25:59,380
with departments all over the country talking about the the change in the work week and

915
01:25:59,380 --> 01:26:04,820
even the west coast so I'm hoping you know take a few pioneers but again we've had it

916
01:26:04,820 --> 01:26:09,020
in Florida we got departments especially down south that are really all having this conversation

917
01:26:09,020 --> 01:26:14,500
now because the problem is once you dig your heels in which ironically where I live they

918
01:26:14,500 --> 01:26:19,500
have you know this refusal to change and these departments around start changing you think

919
01:26:19,500 --> 01:26:23,980
you have problems hiring now wait till other departments start fixing what's broken then

920
01:26:23,980 --> 01:26:27,540
you're really going to be screwed and you're going to be left with the bottom of the barrel

921
01:26:27,540 --> 01:26:34,700
and good luck with that fire department 10-15 years from now all right well Christina the

922
01:26:34,700 --> 01:26:39,580
same thing so what's the work week in Portland and then again what is the landscape as far

923
01:26:39,580 --> 01:26:46,660
as recruitment and mandatory over time at the moment in Portland we just went to I believe

924
01:26:46,660 --> 01:26:54,500
it's almost two years ago now we went to 24 on 72 off and then 48 on 72 off so prior to

925
01:26:54,500 --> 01:27:01,900
that we were 24 48 we actually partnered with University Hospital out here to do a study

926
01:27:01,900 --> 01:27:12,100
on the impacts of 24 48 and then the new schedule so they did the cortisol test you know the

927
01:27:12,100 --> 01:27:18,660
blood pressure cuffs at night peeing in a cup for three months of the old schedule and

928
01:27:18,660 --> 01:27:25,220
then three months of the new schedule and without question adding that third recovery

929
01:27:25,220 --> 01:27:34,500
day made a massive difference in the the hormone and recovery measures of firefighters I think

930
01:27:34,500 --> 01:27:40,180
in general the only people who didn't want to go to the new schedule were the ones who

931
01:27:40,180 --> 01:27:47,220
had kind of a maybe their partner worked in the ER or was another firefighter and so the

932
01:27:47,220 --> 01:27:53,620
schedule change made it very difficult with their families so initially we got on the

933
01:27:53,620 --> 01:28:00,220
new schedule and everyone was so happy to have the third day I think two years into

934
01:28:00,220 --> 01:28:08,140
that there's a little bit of a shift you either love it or you hate it or you love it but

935
01:28:08,140 --> 01:28:16,180
hate the 48 hours because our busy houses being 48 on is just very very difficult and

936
01:28:16,180 --> 01:28:25,780
you know it's LA City I'm sure we don't compare to their busiest house but one of our stations

937
01:28:25,780 --> 01:28:32,500
with two rigs they they'll have 12 after midnight and that's not uncommon you know eight after

938
01:28:32,500 --> 01:28:40,220
midnight is pretty regular for Portland in general I went back and tracked six months

939
01:28:40,220 --> 01:28:49,820
of data for the run volumes at night of all of the top 15 firehouses in Portland and

940
01:28:49,820 --> 01:28:57,900
without fail the average was three calls a night across the the board at least three

941
01:28:57,900 --> 01:29:06,300
so whether you were a slower part of the city you were going to get three and that number

942
01:29:06,300 --> 01:29:11,500
I think has gone up to four or five in the summer but you know six calls a night for

943
01:29:11,500 --> 01:29:19,620
the the busy houses eight twelve that is that's pretty normal in terms of recruitment along

944
01:29:19,620 --> 01:29:27,260
with that we we used to be very competitive on pay and now our neighboring departments

945
01:29:27,260 --> 01:29:36,900
they've they've increased pay incentives so while you know on paper our benefits are

946
01:29:36,900 --> 01:29:44,460
pretty similar pay is one that we are under and our training process is very long and

947
01:29:44,460 --> 01:29:49,540
rigorous so it used to be my class was the last class that had six months academy and

948
01:29:49,540 --> 01:29:53,460
then six months at a training station where you would you would be still drilling six

949
01:29:53,460 --> 01:30:00,260
seven eight hours a day but you also ran calls so now I believe it's gone down to the academy

950
01:30:00,260 --> 01:30:05,140
is five months and then time at the training station is four months and the standards have

951
01:30:05,140 --> 01:30:09,700
not changed so even though we used to have six months at the training station where we

952
01:30:09,700 --> 01:30:17,300
were trained on engine and truck and driving we we now are condensing all that six months

953
01:30:17,300 --> 01:30:23,260
into four months and so we're losing people from attrition we're recycling people because

954
01:30:23,260 --> 01:30:30,380
it's just it's not enough time for the markers that they want to achieve so you know it I

955
01:30:30,380 --> 01:30:35,900
think that they and then we have laterals our lateral numbers are pretty appalling as

956
01:30:35,900 --> 01:30:47,860
well so we we have so much fewer people applying in general and for us there aren't many departments

957
01:30:47,860 --> 01:30:54,820
that work the one three two three they're either 24 48 or I know Vancouver where my

958
01:30:54,820 --> 01:31:01,940
brother works it's a one two one four so you know that that's really appealing so it's

959
01:31:01,940 --> 01:31:07,540
it's an interesting dynamic my mentor is the recruiter and she is just a wonderful person

960
01:31:07,540 --> 01:31:14,220
and she works works her ass off to you know be at the places and get people doing recruiting

961
01:31:14,220 --> 01:31:22,180
events and it's just been such a struggle with the the shift schedule that you have

962
01:31:22,180 --> 01:31:29,060
that's still a 56 hour work week then isn't it I think it's like 52.4 okay all right because

963
01:31:29,060 --> 01:31:35,220
this is a thing I talk about with the work week as well as that people will change around

964
01:31:35,220 --> 01:31:39,500
the shifts but the work week still saves you know extremely long like I tell people it's

965
01:31:39,500 --> 01:31:42,760
like spinning a Rubik's Cube you can change the colors but the cube is still the same

966
01:31:42,760 --> 01:31:47,220
size you know so and I think this sounds like Vancouver has certainly got a better one but

967
01:31:47,220 --> 01:31:53,700
the the 48 hours a lot of people were like oh the study showing that you know the 4896

968
01:31:53,700 --> 01:31:59,220
is better well I just interviewed the guy who did that study and in his words it's a

969
01:31:59,220 --> 01:32:04,200
great conversation he's a researcher in in kind of sleep and health in our profession

970
01:32:04,200 --> 01:32:11,220
but he's kind of early on this journey this department that he used singular the department

971
01:32:11,220 --> 01:32:18,420
as to his words less than one call a night on the shift so you've got Portland LA you

972
01:32:18,420 --> 01:32:22,620
know all these people going oh I saw the studies is better and again we talked about this in

973
01:32:22,620 --> 01:32:26,180
this conversation it's not designed I mean really we just don't need to have we have

974
01:32:26,180 --> 01:32:32,380
a need one conversation why is a firefighter working such an crazy amount of hours but

975
01:32:32,380 --> 01:32:37,620
when you look at the study this is not you this is this you know if you live in rural

976
01:32:37,620 --> 01:32:43,620
Idaho somewhere and you genuinely run a handful of shifts calls a week in your station and

977
01:32:43,620 --> 01:32:47,420
there's no way in hell that you can change for whatever reason everyone in your house

978
01:32:47,420 --> 01:32:53,340
got you know everyone your town got cholera and you've only got 12 people left okay then

979
01:32:53,340 --> 01:32:56,980
then maybe that would work for you but the rest of the population know if you need to

980
01:32:56,980 --> 01:33:02,980
have this reduce the work week conversation and this study that you're all holding up

981
01:33:02,980 --> 01:33:08,740
was not the kind of department where you work do you work less than one call a night in

982
01:33:08,740 --> 01:33:13,780
yours no I mean I never did my whole career that's 14 years in four different departments

983
01:33:13,780 --> 01:33:18,780
so you can't tell me that this is going to work for you you know so this is 48 and it

984
01:33:18,780 --> 01:33:23,420
looks good but people aren't looking at the 48 they're looking at the 72 or the 96 but

985
01:33:23,420 --> 01:33:29,260
they're negating two solid days without sleep or with a super interrupted sleep and we all

986
01:33:29,260 --> 01:33:33,580
know that cognitively that is basically suicide you know whether it's behind the wheel whether

987
01:33:33,580 --> 01:33:38,060
it's pushing meds whether it's operating a tool or you know 100 feet up on the aerial

988
01:33:38,060 --> 01:33:43,780
you know this is any other profession would never ever do two nights without sleep with

989
01:33:43,780 --> 01:33:47,780
that level of danger but we just you know blindly go oh this sounds better let's just

990
01:33:47,780 --> 01:33:52,180
go for that so this is why I love all these different conversations with people from fire

991
01:33:52,180 --> 01:33:57,340
departments all over the world because then you see the Venn diagram kind of overlap and

992
01:33:57,340 --> 01:34:06,540
the truth is in the middle and it's super interesting to me when I when I got into started

993
01:34:06,540 --> 01:34:13,900
diving into the sleep research and reading you know it takes it takes four days to recover

994
01:34:13,900 --> 01:34:21,700
from just one hour of sleep loss takes nine days to recover from you know a sleep debt

995
01:34:21,700 --> 01:34:30,100
that's over a few days that's we we literally have no possibility of recovering with these

996
01:34:30,100 --> 01:34:38,620
type of these the deck stacked against us in this way it's just it's not possible which

997
01:34:38,620 --> 01:34:44,980
is why we're passionate about our programs because if it's not possible in a normal landscape

998
01:34:44,980 --> 01:34:55,860
how do we how do we level up our lifestyle so that the impact isn't quite as as horrible

999
01:34:55,860 --> 01:35:02,860
and otherwise no wonder we last six years seven eight years after retirement and we

1000
01:35:02,860 --> 01:35:12,500
can't even enjoy a life after everything we've given so yeah I completely I completely agree

1001
01:35:12,500 --> 01:35:21,340
with you and we we're just we're just on a mission now we're on a mission to help people

1002
01:35:21,340 --> 01:35:28,340
reduce reduce the impacts and then recover from some of those impacts because it's not

1003
01:35:28,340 --> 01:35:34,660
going to happen on its own it just it is it is not possible absolutely well Jason that's

1004
01:35:34,660 --> 01:35:41,220
the first time I've ever had a guest evicted during this conversation I was like oh she's

1005
01:35:41,220 --> 01:35:45,140
like oh there's no one waiting for the room I was I'm at the Newport library right now

1006
01:35:45,140 --> 01:35:51,300
and she's like pointing her watch time's up like oh god okay so I apologize

1007
01:35:51,300 --> 01:35:57,580
All right well you mentioned the program and so let's dive into that we've talked about

1008
01:35:57,580 --> 01:36:02,220
shift work we've set up you know the the problem I think you know people listen to this podcast

1009
01:36:02,220 --> 01:36:06,780
are starting to be very aware now about the cognitive issues about the chronic physical

1010
01:36:06,780 --> 01:36:11,220
mental health issues with sleep deprivation but I think as we touched on right at the

1011
01:36:11,220 --> 01:36:14,780
very beginning when we talked about union membership you know participation is part

1012
01:36:14,780 --> 01:36:19,860
of the conversation the environment I fight for but our ownership of our own sleep hygiene

1013
01:36:19,860 --> 01:36:25,860
and mental health practices and mindfulness and all the things are equally important so

1014
01:36:25,860 --> 01:36:29,060
Christina let's start with you because I know obviously you were the kind of the creator

1015
01:36:29,060 --> 01:36:35,500
initially walked me through the kind of philosophies you know the the pillars of health that you

1016
01:36:35,500 --> 01:36:42,020
started realizing that in this case the firefighter can start addressing themselves yeah great

1017
01:36:42,020 --> 01:36:49,700
question so I was doing everything that I could outside of sleep and I was seeing very

1018
01:36:49,700 --> 01:36:57,780
minuscule results so I found a training program I'm going to give a shout out to our mentor

1019
01:36:57,780 --> 01:37:05,500
Jacqueline to me with first responder sleep recovery love Jackie I found an amazing human

1020
01:37:05,500 --> 01:37:12,180
being I went to the stars aligned again the the Lyme diagnosis was very similar to what

1021
01:37:12,180 --> 01:37:18,620
happened here we have vacation bids at the start of the year so I had scheduled in January

1022
01:37:18,620 --> 01:37:25,500
to have vacation in September and I believe it was the last week of August was when I

1023
01:37:25,500 --> 01:37:32,700
was maybe in the middle of August I was I was just at my wits end and started going

1024
01:37:32,700 --> 01:37:38,460
deep into the Google's on anything around shift work sleep mitigation firefighter sleep

1025
01:37:38,460 --> 01:37:45,460
and I found a couple of her articles and so went and scoured her page found out that she

1026
01:37:45,460 --> 01:37:52,100
had this retreat and I was like I've got to go to this it happened to correspond directly

1027
01:37:52,100 --> 01:37:57,980
with the days that I had asked off back in January so I already have the days off and

1028
01:37:57,980 --> 01:38:03,620
I reached out to her just didn't know of a thing and said I have to go do you have any

1029
01:38:03,620 --> 01:38:11,820
spots left she had one spot left so I ended up going and you know the whole premise of

1030
01:38:11,820 --> 01:38:23,140
her work is sleep is not simply an issue about knocking the body out it's not just make the

1031
01:38:23,140 --> 01:38:32,540
body so tired that it must sleep or give it trazodone and so you know or overdose on melatonin

1032
01:38:32,540 --> 01:38:38,860
to force it to sleep there's a very holistic approach on how do we actually get into a

1033
01:38:38,860 --> 01:38:47,540
sleep state and this is why so many doctors don't know what to do with firefighters because

1034
01:38:47,540 --> 01:38:54,820
firefighters who have sleep issues because it's not the traditional gen pop methods don't

1035
01:38:54,820 --> 01:39:01,420
work for us and the reason why they don't work for us is because of the hyper vigilance

1036
01:39:01,420 --> 01:39:09,540
aspect a normal person can go to sleep can go to bed they'll go to sleep and they might

1037
01:39:09,540 --> 01:39:16,220
need to be up at a certain time but their time in bed is pretty protected they don't

1038
01:39:16,220 --> 01:39:19,060
have to be awake for anything you know aside from new parents they don't have to be awake

1039
01:39:19,060 --> 01:39:24,780
for anything they they know that there's more than likely it's not going to get interrupted

1040
01:39:24,780 --> 01:39:31,660
for us firefighters working the line there is an element of always ready so we're in

1041
01:39:31,660 --> 01:39:40,140
this mode where at any point we have to be quick to act to respond to be alert to you

1042
01:39:40,140 --> 01:39:48,020
know even when we're on calls have situational awareness all of these things are really practical

1043
01:39:48,020 --> 01:39:56,220
phrases for hyper vigilance but we don't recognize it that way because again mind and body being

1044
01:39:56,220 --> 01:40:02,820
different in our mind we think oh we're we're I'm not stressed like I'm just I've got my

1045
01:40:02,820 --> 01:40:07,860
crew of my training like I'm ready for the calls you know maybe the next call will be

1046
01:40:07,860 --> 01:40:12,580
something big but in general we're not we're not stressing about what the next call is

1047
01:40:12,580 --> 01:40:19,420
going to be and oh my gosh we're not like consciously tense about it but simply the

1048
01:40:19,420 --> 01:40:28,700
fact that one we are in this state you know one every two or three days maybe four days

1049
01:40:28,700 --> 01:40:37,540
and then two when we're in that state we are also having to go to sleep it puts our bodies

1050
01:40:37,540 --> 01:40:46,580
in this program of looking around for stimuli being aware of stimuli in which we have to

1051
01:40:46,580 --> 01:40:55,260
be quick on alert to respond to and that's very very accurate for just hyper vigilant

1052
01:40:55,260 --> 01:41:02,300
in general hyper vigilance in general so even though you know what I think so many of us

1053
01:41:02,300 --> 01:41:07,320
think of like Gulf War veterans when we think hyper vigilant we're looking for like immediate

1054
01:41:07,320 --> 01:41:14,660
threats of this person or that person or you know is a is a tree going to fall on us hyper

1055
01:41:14,660 --> 01:41:21,500
vigilance is simply our our physiology taking in cues and interpreting them in an incorrect

1056
01:41:21,500 --> 01:41:29,940
way and unfortunately when we are on shift we're giving our body signals and requests

1057
01:41:29,940 --> 01:41:38,300
to be on alert so hyper vigilance is really being in our sympathetic state well you can't

1058
01:41:38,300 --> 01:41:44,260
be in parasympathetic that rest and digest and sympathetic fight or flight at the same

1059
01:41:44,260 --> 01:41:53,820
time and unfortunately when we build these habit patterns these programs of being on

1060
01:41:53,820 --> 01:42:00,860
alert for years and years and years and years and years our body can essentially get our

1061
01:42:00,860 --> 01:42:07,940
gears stuck so moving out from sympathetic to parasympathetic is really really difficult

1062
01:42:07,940 --> 01:42:15,340
so what we've done is we've taken these scientific practices that have you know they've come

1063
01:42:15,340 --> 01:42:24,940
more from a an eastern medicinal approach where you use vagal toning and you use putting

1064
01:42:24,940 --> 01:42:33,340
intent back on the body to say okay I'm going to address the body and move the nervous system

1065
01:42:33,340 --> 01:42:40,700
from sympathetic to parasympathetic the beautiful thing is even though our nervous system on

1066
01:42:40,700 --> 01:42:48,580
its own goes back and forth or in our cases it kind of stays in this up regulation we

1067
01:42:48,580 --> 01:42:55,140
actually have the ability to shift those gears ourselves so we can use the body to calm the

1068
01:42:55,140 --> 01:43:02,020
brain and then we can use the brain to calm the body Jacqueline her her visual I think

1069
01:43:02,020 --> 01:43:08,740
was just the perfect example of this where we go on a call of a bad mva and we have a

1070
01:43:08,740 --> 01:43:15,140
patient who was just trapped in the back we extricate them we tell them hey go out into

1071
01:43:15,140 --> 01:43:21,980
the middle of this really busy road lay down and close your eyes they would say what the

1072
01:43:21,980 --> 01:43:26,940
actual like one they they would give us the finger and two they probably wouldn't even

1073
01:43:26,940 --> 01:43:33,700
be able to do it why because their brain knows it's not safe and there are some things that

1074
01:43:33,700 --> 01:43:39,260
when we are in a threat threatened state and we are in that state of up regulation our

1075
01:43:39,260 --> 01:43:49,060
brains sole purpose is for survival and so we unbeknownst to us we are that patient where

1076
01:43:49,060 --> 01:43:55,460
we are in this state of up regulation we go on calls we go back to bed and when we go

1077
01:43:55,460 --> 01:44:00,020
back to bed it's like asking that patient to lay down close their eyes in the middle

1078
01:44:00,020 --> 01:44:06,260
of that road like what the heck no the brain the brain is knows it has to be ready so it

1079
01:44:06,260 --> 01:44:14,580
why would it do that this goes back to you know our nervous systems haven't adapted from

1080
01:44:14,580 --> 01:44:18,700
you know the twenty thousand years ago where we'd go on a hunt and be up regulated and

1081
01:44:18,700 --> 01:44:24,500
watch for threats around us when the bear comes after us we still have that nervous

1082
01:44:24,500 --> 01:44:33,060
system and so so the program so much of the program is about teaching people how to shift

1083
01:44:33,060 --> 01:44:39,380
the gears of their nervous system on their own in one minute three minutes five minutes

1084
01:44:39,380 --> 01:44:44,020
twenty minutes whatever it is it was really interesting I don't know if you've interviewed

1085
01:44:44,020 --> 01:44:51,380
Patricia Hayes but she is a researcher she's actually actually Dr. Billings mentor she's

1086
01:44:51,380 --> 01:44:58,620
a researcher out of Arizona and she studies cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia

1087
01:44:58,620 --> 01:45:05,620
which is the gold standard standard of sleep mitigations and gen pop she won I think it

1088
01:45:05,620 --> 01:45:11,900
was a it was a three or four million dollar grant to study sleep debt in Arizona firefighters

1089
01:45:11,900 --> 01:45:19,140
across twenty fire departments and Jason and I hopped on the phone with her last month

1090
01:45:19,140 --> 01:45:26,500
and she said this this process had been so interesting to her because she has recognized

1091
01:45:26,500 --> 01:45:33,620
that there is the mental component of you know sleep pressure that we put on ourselves

1092
01:45:33,620 --> 01:45:38,980
okay we've had four calls oh god I'm probably gonna get a fifth here I'm not gonna be able

1093
01:45:38,980 --> 01:45:43,660
to go to sleep there is that component which the cognitive behavioral therapy addresses

1094
01:45:43,660 --> 01:45:49,860
but the other side of it is normally when someone has insomnia they will as a treatment

1095
01:45:49,860 --> 01:45:54,940
restrict their sleep so if you can't sleep with six hours they'll put you down to five

1096
01:45:54,940 --> 01:46:00,660
and a half and the hope is that after a certain amount of time the body will be so desperate

1097
01:46:00,660 --> 01:46:08,220
for sleep that it actually you know re kind of resets itself and gets sleep she said it's

1098
01:46:08,220 --> 01:46:15,220
been so interesting to recognize that firefighters live in such a constant state of sleep depra

1099
01:46:15,220 --> 01:46:20,820
deprivation because of their calls that that aspect isn't effective and then on top of

1100
01:46:20,820 --> 01:46:29,860
that there is a whole demographic of firefighters that they are so upregulated they actually

1101
01:46:29,860 --> 01:46:34,740
can't get them to wind down enough that they can go to sleep so it really is that component

1102
01:46:34,740 --> 01:46:39,900
of our nervous system that we can't be in sympathetic and parasympathetic at the same

1103
01:46:39,900 --> 01:46:47,820
time and if we are at work we are essentially telling our bodies that its job is to be ready

1104
01:46:47,820 --> 01:46:52,060
which means it is going to be upregulated which means we're not going to be able to

1105
01:46:52,060 --> 01:46:57,820
sleep so there are some people who have this talent of you know they go on a call they

1106
01:46:57,820 --> 01:47:04,700
knock out within five minutes and everything's fine but for the majority of us it takes working

1107
01:47:04,700 --> 01:47:10,180
with our nervous system to shift it from that upregulation into parasympathetic and I think

1108
01:47:10,180 --> 01:47:15,060
one of the really exciting things about what we're doing at the program is helping people

1109
01:47:15,060 --> 01:47:23,660
to recognize that state of regulation and also that a medical call doesn't excite the

1110
01:47:23,660 --> 01:47:29,060
nervous system the way that a fake fire will where you have all that adrenaline in your

1111
01:47:29,060 --> 01:47:36,380
system and the cortisol and then you know you go back to bed and you're just wired and

1112
01:47:36,380 --> 01:47:43,500
so applying all these different tools to address the body to shift those states of regulation

1113
01:47:43,500 --> 01:47:52,620
is really the foundational work of the program and then the sleep practice itself where you

1114
01:47:52,620 --> 01:48:00,300
know developed by neuroscientists and doctors is to really take the brain through different

1115
01:48:00,300 --> 01:48:05,660
states of consciousness so I don't know if you listen to Andrew Huberman but it was so

1116
01:48:05,660 --> 01:48:13,220
interesting he and Dr. Matthew Walker the sleep doctor scientists of everything grand

1117
01:48:13,220 --> 01:48:22,100
daddy of sleep they were talking about non-sleep deep rest yoga nidra eye rest saying that

1118
01:48:22,100 --> 01:48:27,140
it's really interesting that you we now know you can get the brain into these different

1119
01:48:27,140 --> 01:48:36,300
brainwave states which are sleep like states and do have very similar benefits but there

1120
01:48:36,300 --> 01:48:42,500
is such an important component I can't just go lay down and put on a sleep meditation

1121
01:48:42,500 --> 01:48:46,780
right after a fire and expect that it's going to work for me because I have to address the

1122
01:48:46,780 --> 01:48:53,340
body and so pairing the body and the brain and giving us training with the right technique

1123
01:48:53,340 --> 01:48:57,720
and the right number of reps we can train our bodies to do anything and that really

1124
01:48:57,720 --> 01:49:04,980
is that's the core of what we're about giving people the tools to self-rescue to say this

1125
01:49:04,980 --> 01:49:13,460
is the state I am in these are the tools that I can apply and kind of putting the key the

1126
01:49:13,460 --> 01:49:21,380
right key in the laps that will turn turn and open the door to to sleep ultimately so

1127
01:49:21,380 --> 01:49:25,700
that's that's the premise of the program long example but that's the premise of the

1128
01:49:25,700 --> 01:49:33,180
program I will say just to say gone with the Christina's talking about also are the the

1129
01:49:33,180 --> 01:49:38,740
outside components of the job as well so I'm on the ambulance at least 80 percent of the

1130
01:49:38,740 --> 01:49:44,900
time at work and one of which things are that are is an issue in LA are long wait times

1131
01:49:44,900 --> 01:49:50,300
in the emergency rooms and especially at night we're all familiar with the blue light that

1132
01:49:50,300 --> 01:49:57,300
just inundating us well and if we if anyone's listened to Matt Walker before well that blue

1133
01:49:57,300 --> 01:50:02,820
light dumpster melatonin to you know 10 percent of what it would have been if you weren't

1134
01:50:02,820 --> 01:50:09,260
exposed to it so one of the things that we like to do we've made the class or mod program

1135
01:50:09,260 --> 01:50:15,940
into proficiency modules and one of which is about blue light exposure and wearing blue

1136
01:50:15,940 --> 01:50:20,060
light blockers at night the types of blue blockers that you can use covering your skin

1137
01:50:20,060 --> 01:50:26,020
at night wearing whether it's beanies long sleeves just that alone I would say has if

1138
01:50:26,020 --> 01:50:31,100
I had to just give an approximation has helped my sleep at 10 15 percent just that one thing

1139
01:50:31,100 --> 01:50:36,660
wearing the beanies wearing the long sleeves wearing the blue blockers and that's just

1140
01:50:36,660 --> 01:50:41,540
you know there's no way around getting around transporting patients in the emergency room

1141
01:50:41,540 --> 01:50:44,780
unless you want to get in trouble for negligence right you're going to have to take people

1142
01:50:44,780 --> 01:50:57,700
to the emergency room so just as a physiological way to get that out of or alleviate that from

1143
01:50:57,700 --> 01:51:05,780
your issues with the melatonin dump just that alone has paid off dividends.

1144
01:51:05,780 --> 01:51:10,060
It's interesting just going back to the kovac for two seconds how the news was showing that

1145
01:51:10,060 --> 01:51:14,460
all these er's were full and these medics are waiting for beds and I just remember think

1146
01:51:14,460 --> 01:51:18,140
that's my whole career what are you talking about this isn't new you guys would know where

1147
01:51:18,140 --> 01:51:23,220
to be seen reporting on this but yes I mean holding the wall is and that is just an innate

1148
01:51:23,220 --> 01:51:28,380
thing for most first responders where they're an hour two hours sometimes even longer for

1149
01:51:28,380 --> 01:51:33,460
a single patient babysitting them for a hospital and I've never thought about that before while

1150
01:51:33,460 --> 01:51:37,100
you're there standing all those neon lights not only the responders but the doctors and

1151
01:51:37,100 --> 01:51:42,100
nurses the patients the hospital is terribly set up for rest and recovery for the patients

1152
01:51:42,100 --> 01:51:45,740
as well but that makes perfect sense yeah being aware of that and understanding that

1153
01:51:45,740 --> 01:51:51,180
that's kind of waking you up because I wear blue blocking glasses at night they prescription

1154
01:51:51,180 --> 01:51:55,020
glasses but they got the lenses and it makes the world of difference it really does but

1155
01:51:55,020 --> 01:51:59,500
then again where's that balance of not being too sleepy that you got to drive back to the

1156
01:51:59,500 --> 01:52:06,900
station first right and you know you I will say this as a caveat in terms of driving with

1157
01:52:06,900 --> 01:52:14,540
them on you got to use your own I don't recommend it right that's one where you might not be

1158
01:52:14,540 --> 01:52:19,060
able to work around that so just take the L I guess I would say to folks but the lighting

1159
01:52:19,060 --> 01:52:23,340
to James I do know like in Philadelphia the Children's Hospital they have something called

1160
01:52:23,340 --> 01:52:29,900
circadian lighting so in the evening the light type and wavelength will change so that it

1161
01:52:29,900 --> 01:52:36,380
is more it's better suited for people trying to go to sleep and lights are you know 50%

1162
01:52:36,380 --> 01:52:42,020
of them are turned off so those places or those thoughts do exist but they're a few

1163
01:52:42,020 --> 01:52:47,180
and far between so but again that's just something that has behavioral issues I know there's

1164
01:52:47,180 --> 01:52:53,020
one guy I work with he says if he gets a call after midnight and he has to go to the hospital

1165
01:52:53,020 --> 01:52:58,540
he goes back to bed and just sits there until relief his testosterone is in the ground he

1166
01:52:58,540 --> 01:53:04,480
can't perform with a lover you know it's like it's it's it's so you got that's a depression

1167
01:53:04,480 --> 01:53:08,140
thing a testosterone dysregulation and then the natural killer cells that happen from

1168
01:53:08,140 --> 01:53:13,460
not getting the sleep it's just it's like a snowball effect and that could be alleviated

1169
01:53:13,460 --> 01:53:19,580
just by a couple of changes you know and it's what we're trying to get to people is you

1170
01:53:19,580 --> 01:53:24,900
don't have to do everything it's more of like get having a Rolodex so you know forceful

1171
01:53:24,900 --> 01:53:28,940
entry you don't just always use a rotary saw you don't always use a hooligan it's a you

1172
01:53:28,940 --> 01:53:37,180
know scenarios and the I guess the individual whatever works for them is what we're trying

1173
01:53:37,180 --> 01:53:41,340
to get a couple different tools if you use five or six things that could that could be

1174
01:53:41,340 --> 01:53:48,780
in a world of difference and having tools in the toolbox that that work for you so Jason's

1175
01:53:48,780 --> 01:53:54,820
toolbox and choice you know choices are going to be different than mine because we're different

1176
01:53:54,820 --> 01:54:02,180
people but I think so it's so important to recognize that the lifestyle the environment

1177
01:54:02,180 --> 01:54:09,380
the requirements even that are asked of us do not set us up to get what we need like

1178
01:54:09,380 --> 01:54:18,420
sleep is a what is it an unalienable right we have to sleep if we're human and the less

1179
01:54:18,420 --> 01:54:24,020
we sleep the shorter our lifespan and so many people say that and you know they're they're

1180
01:54:24,020 --> 01:54:30,340
like oh I'm fine with it it's okay but what we forget to say is the quality of those years

1181
01:54:30,340 --> 01:54:37,940
also will be diminished and nobody wants to be in a wheelchair nobody wants to you know

1182
01:54:37,940 --> 01:54:45,740
have memory problems when they're 48 like all of these all of these things are going

1183
01:54:45,740 --> 01:54:52,700
to catch up with us because we think we're superheroes we don't need the basic human

1184
01:54:52,700 --> 01:55:00,380
things when we we do we have to get sleep and so being able to offer people these tools

1185
01:55:00,380 --> 01:55:08,640
and give agency I think that's the thing that excites me the most in teaching and coaching

1186
01:55:08,640 --> 01:55:16,780
so many firefighters is when people realize oh my gosh I I actually can do something about

1187
01:55:16,780 --> 01:55:23,460
this the light that goes on in their eyes the like it's almost as if we've conditioned

1188
01:55:23,460 --> 01:55:31,340
ourselves so much to the fact that well we're just in sleep debt it's just a thing there

1189
01:55:31,340 --> 01:55:37,260
is no hope of change and so being able to give people these tools that they then apply

1190
01:55:37,260 --> 01:55:43,780
and suddenly are having results from that's that's the best thing it's absolutely incredible

1191
01:55:43,780 --> 01:55:52,060
and it inspires us so much to see people you know being able to improve their sleep so

1192
01:55:52,060 --> 01:55:57,900
much even you know aside from sleep trackers just being able to fall asleep in between

1193
01:55:57,900 --> 01:56:04,820
calls just to be able to wake up and not feel like they're the crankiest sob you know walking

1194
01:56:04,820 --> 01:56:13,020
into their home those are massive wins and it it just makes me so sad that people have

1195
01:56:13,020 --> 01:56:19,820
no idea the number of things that they can do to help themselves and the more that we

1196
01:56:19,820 --> 01:56:25,340
get this message out the more I think it'll shift the entire culture of the fire service

1197
01:56:25,340 --> 01:56:31,820
because you know I had one firefighter who had cancer last year went back to the line

1198
01:56:31,820 --> 01:56:37,860
and was just so exhausted from that journey she thought I don't I don't know if I can

1199
01:56:37,860 --> 01:56:44,660
keep this job she actually went to one of my retreats and within a month I asked her

1200
01:56:44,660 --> 01:56:49,180
how it was going and she was like my life is completely changed I do these things now

1201
01:56:49,180 --> 01:56:53,700
I don't go home and sleep for 10 hours after shift anymore I've got my crew doing this

1202
01:56:53,700 --> 01:56:58,900
little sleep mocktail thing we have our bedtime routine that we all do together and you know

1203
01:56:58,900 --> 01:57:06,340
the impact of one person creating this positive change that that's where revolution starts

1204
01:57:06,340 --> 01:57:14,480
that's how we are able to make these impacts and so you know our priority is getting this

1205
01:57:14,480 --> 01:57:21,340
to as many people as possible because it is going to change things I have I just have

1206
01:57:21,340 --> 01:57:26,980
so much belief that as people feel better that's undeniable that you know the guy who

1207
01:57:26,980 --> 01:57:32,740
used to be the biggest asshole in the station when he wasn't sleeping suddenly is having

1208
01:57:32,740 --> 01:57:36,700
a cup of coffee with you and he's not complaining about everything you're like what the heck

1209
01:57:36,700 --> 01:57:41,180
just happened to this person you're in such a good mood what's going on you know those

1210
01:57:41,180 --> 01:57:48,660
are the things that those are the real testimonies to these shifts and I'm so excited about what's

1211
01:57:48,660 --> 01:57:51,140
in store Jason I'm sure you are too.

1212
01:57:51,140 --> 01:57:58,240
Oh yeah I'm very excited it's it's an inflection point for sure I think this year is an inflection

1213
01:57:58,240 --> 01:58:03,980
point for a lot of things again not political but I do like the whole make America healthy

1214
01:58:03,980 --> 01:58:11,140
again and I mean if we can do that from the inside out going from you know those who serve

1215
01:58:11,140 --> 01:58:18,540
and making them role models for where we should be as our you know gen pop in society and

1216
01:58:18,540 --> 01:58:23,420
civilians it's it's the way to go so I do think this year is a big deal and I think

1217
01:58:23,420 --> 01:58:29,260
a lot of changes are coming in a positive way so.

1218
01:58:29,260 --> 01:58:34,820
When we have this conversation I think what's really lost is the fact that it's not the

1219
01:58:34,820 --> 01:58:42,620
job and what I mean by that is the job of being a paramedic and or a firefighter that

1220
01:58:42,620 --> 01:58:47,420
hasn't changed and the people that are do it for 40 hours 42 hours a week are doing

1221
01:58:47,420 --> 01:58:51,780
the same exact job and the people doing it 80 hours a week it's the working environment

1222
01:58:51,780 --> 01:58:56,820
that's changed and so getting those two mixed up I think is a dangerous thing it's that

1223
01:58:56,820 --> 01:59:00,140
you're not complaining about the job you're complaining that you're never home and you're

1224
01:59:00,140 --> 01:59:05,220
exhausted and you've got cancer and all these other things that's the issue and if you look

1225
01:59:05,220 --> 01:59:12,100
at it in a professional sports point of view would you expect your NHL goalkeeper or your

1226
01:59:12,100 --> 01:59:19,580
quarterback or your point guard to be not sleeping every third or fourth day and losing

1227
01:59:19,580 --> 01:59:24,060
all these games would you be happy no because it's performance and this is what I think

1228
01:59:24,060 --> 01:59:28,580
we also need is all those voices out there that are at all the conferences talking about

1229
01:59:28,580 --> 01:59:33,480
it's for them and you know there's the firefighter fitness and forcing the door and searches

1230
01:59:33,480 --> 01:59:38,300
and nays if we're talking about performance why are you not talking about sleep why are

1231
01:59:38,300 --> 01:59:42,900
you not fighting for the rest and recovery the same thing that all the high performers

1232
01:59:42,900 --> 01:59:48,420
around the world swear by so again this badge of honor you know like oh I can do less with

1233
01:59:48,420 --> 01:59:52,900
more no you can't because we're falling apart and as I've said to people if the way we did

1234
01:59:52,900 --> 01:59:56,900
it worked we wouldn't have an incidence of suicide and cancer and all immune disease

1235
01:59:56,900 --> 02:00:00,900
and heart disease and testosterone you know in the toilet and all these other things and

1236
02:00:00,900 --> 02:00:06,580
divorces and you know murders sometimes would be fine so it's not working you know what

1237
02:00:06,580 --> 02:00:11,940
I mean and you met you touched on the cognitive decline if you look at Alzheimer's for example

1238
02:00:11,940 --> 02:00:17,660
they call that type 3 diabetes and if you look at the hormonal disruption of sleep deprivation

1239
02:00:17,660 --> 02:00:22,460
it affects our pancreas it affects our insulin levels and if you look at TBI you know obviously

1240
02:00:22,460 --> 02:00:28,260
there's that and if you look at sleep deprivation it mirrors the impact of TBI the demyelination

1241
02:00:28,260 --> 02:00:33,200
of the myelin sheath so sleep deprivation is causing all these degenerative diseases

1242
02:00:33,200 --> 02:00:38,460
as well you know so this is the whole pump conversation is there is no downside owning

1243
02:00:38,460 --> 02:00:42,020
your sleep and using the tools that you guys are putting out there and the tools that Jackie

1244
02:00:42,020 --> 02:00:48,380
is putting out there Jacqueline and then you know is fostering longevity and a healthy

1245
02:00:48,380 --> 02:00:53,140
retirement and a healthy family dynamic but also if you're the chest beater that talks

1246
02:00:53,140 --> 02:00:58,460
about being the best firefighter and you're allowing these insane work weeks you're a

1247
02:00:58,460 --> 02:01:02,580
complete hypocrite because you're advocating for the very thing that's making you a worse

1248
02:01:02,580 --> 02:01:07,660
firefighter so it doesn't matter which lens you look at it the whole conversation is we

1249
02:01:07,660 --> 02:01:12,700
need a work week that promotes health rest and recovery and then as you mentioned and

1250
02:01:12,700 --> 02:01:18,860
it's equally as important the ownership of the individual on your days off to own your

1251
02:01:18,860 --> 02:01:22,780
wellness to try and do some of these things so you get to sleep in the bunk room or be

1252
02:01:22,780 --> 02:01:27,900
it for an hour or two here or there but this whole conversation I think is imperative but

1253
02:01:27,900 --> 02:01:32,220
longevity and performance go hand in hand in this conversation.

1254
02:01:32,220 --> 02:01:37,420
So just to touch on too James so you talked about performance I won't say what department

1255
02:01:37,420 --> 02:01:42,820
in Southern California but one of these chiefs I've heard through the great line but they

1256
02:01:42,820 --> 02:01:49,780
almost described the workforce the boots on the ground as racehorses and every day you

1257
02:01:49,780 --> 02:01:55,460
go in to get your ass to a seat and you run your race and you run your race until you

1258
02:01:55,460 --> 02:02:01,700
can't run your race anymore and then they just get a new young racehorse and if that's

1259
02:02:01,700 --> 02:02:07,140
a great chief yeah well if that's the kind of mentality we're dealing with we're not

1260
02:02:07,140 --> 02:02:10,980
going to be able to rely on them and that's the whole purpose of what and why we're doing

1261
02:02:10,980 --> 02:02:12,460
this.

1262
02:02:12,460 --> 02:02:18,060
You touched on the mitochondrial dysfunction issues of all those types of diseases you

1263
02:02:18,060 --> 02:02:24,980
know again the ice baths the saunas the maximizing the efficiency of your sleep to get that REM

1264
02:02:24,980 --> 02:02:30,060
which is the emotional processing that's there that's like therapy at night we're normally

1265
02:02:30,060 --> 02:02:34,200
from 5 a.m. to 8 a.m. we're coming or going from work a lot of people can you get up early

1266
02:02:34,200 --> 02:02:39,460
to leave or go to relieve somebody well if you even just get an hour more of that REM

1267
02:02:39,460 --> 02:02:46,300
sleep from falling asleep earlier having high quality sleep well that can help relieve the

1268
02:02:46,300 --> 02:02:52,780
high incidence of divorce right so we all know firefighters cops pilots military bartenders

1269
02:02:52,780 --> 02:02:57,220
those are the top five of divorces so it's like there's all these it's like we talked

1270
02:02:57,220 --> 02:03:01,140
about before it's a snowball effect so if you start addressing these things you can

1271
02:03:01,140 --> 02:03:07,140
address then all these other problems start to reduce and again we want to have a long

1272
02:03:07,140 --> 02:03:12,220
happy retirement with our families and not be on our third wife we don't want to be on

1273
02:03:12,220 --> 02:03:16,020
you know getting our pension cut in three ways there's all these things where if you

1274
02:03:16,020 --> 02:03:22,440
just did a couple things to make the quality of life at the station better there's less

1275
02:03:22,440 --> 02:03:27,620
liability on the city you're a happier employee and you're going to enjoy your family and

1276
02:03:27,620 --> 02:03:34,220
be a better father and community member and that's again that's that's what we want to

1277
02:03:34,220 --> 02:03:38,340
do and again if that's the mentality of some of these chiefs then I have no confidence

1278
02:03:38,340 --> 02:03:43,140
in them and it's up to us to help each other and and and move that ball in the positive

1279
02:03:43,140 --> 02:03:47,900
direction someone said to me and it was a comment on linkedin and i've had this many

1280
02:03:47,900 --> 02:03:53,000
many times but uh you know the chiefs will say if we give more rest and recovery between

1281
02:03:53,000 --> 02:03:58,580
shifts then the firefighters will just work more and you think about that for a second

1282
02:03:58,580 --> 02:04:03,380
if you work for a grocery store and your grocery store manager was concerned with what you

1283
02:04:03,380 --> 02:04:07,220
do on your days off you probably shove an apple up his ass or something you know what

1284
02:04:07,220 --> 02:04:09,960
i mean you'd be like how what the fuck you talking about who are you to talk about my

1285
02:04:09,960 --> 02:04:15,500
days off the arrogance that it takes for a chief to say that they they're going to do

1286
02:04:15,500 --> 02:04:21,380
things on their days off is nauseating now to to add to that of course if you create

1287
02:04:21,380 --> 02:04:26,740
a work week that's healthy and you educate on sleep hygiene and you actually staff your

1288
02:04:26,740 --> 02:04:31,220
department properly so most of the overtime goes away and overtime is fine once in a while

1289
02:04:31,220 --> 02:04:34,940
you know and it's needed with wildfires and earthquakes and all the things that we get

1290
02:04:34,940 --> 02:04:41,420
but if you staff it properly that then fosters entrepreneurship and so if someone goes and

1291
02:04:41,420 --> 02:04:47,240
spends eight nine hours putting in cabinets or personal training or running a yoga studio

1292
02:04:47,240 --> 02:04:51,580
and they're home in their bed every night that is an amazing thing that is a beautiful

1293
02:04:51,580 --> 02:04:56,620
thing that should be encouraged not discouraged but if they're working another 24 because

1294
02:04:56,620 --> 02:05:01,740
you're so woefully understaffed and mismanaged that is so much overtime then yes that's a

1295
02:05:01,740 --> 02:05:07,160
problem so educating them not to work a night shift at an er absolutely understanding the

1296
02:05:07,160 --> 02:05:13,200
ownership of sleep hygiene but to have the arrogance to call your people a racehorse

1297
02:05:13,200 --> 02:05:17,820
this whole disposable heroes thing or you know to be concerned that if you give them

1298
02:05:17,820 --> 02:05:22,020
rest and recovery god forbid they're going to actually go do something else rather than

1299
02:05:22,020 --> 02:05:27,660
identify a thousand percent as a firefighter that is the kind of arrogance and narcissism

1300
02:05:27,660 --> 02:05:31,780
that we see in the fire service and those people need to be fucking cleared off the

1301
02:05:31,780 --> 02:05:36,300
shelf and put real leaders on

1302
02:05:36,300 --> 02:05:45,060
couldn't agree more that's it's you nailed it yeah completely it's a I don't want to

1303
02:05:45,060 --> 02:05:50,020
go on a tangent on chiefs but it's a lot of these chiefs they just took the admin role

1304
02:05:50,020 --> 02:05:53,260
there's and again we talk about it with our department there's three roles right yeah

1305
02:05:53,260 --> 02:05:59,980
VMS fire and admin well lately it just seems like people don't have that firsthand experience

1306
02:05:59,980 --> 02:06:04,260
on how the shift work affects them and so it's just almost not even it's a not even

1307
02:06:04,260 --> 02:06:09,140
an afterthought and so if those are the type of people we have in leadership roles then

1308
02:06:09,140 --> 02:06:15,740
we're doomed we're not I mean I don't I want to say if they're going to make policy

1309
02:06:15,740 --> 02:06:20,860
and dictate it we're not going to have our voice or participate in our union which I

1310
02:06:20,860 --> 02:06:25,260
guess is a full circle back at the beginning of this conversation participating being proactive

1311
02:06:25,260 --> 02:06:31,220
self-rescuing then we're in a world of hurt hurt so and let we either get involved and

1312
02:06:31,220 --> 02:06:36,900
it moves in a positive direction or we just stand by and and it goes the other way and

1313
02:06:36,900 --> 02:06:43,140
I think we all know what that other way will look like and it's not pretty all right I

1314
02:06:43,140 --> 02:06:46,420
want to throw one more thing at you and then we'll talk about where people can find all

1315
02:06:46,420 --> 02:06:53,860
the programs that you offer and the retreats one cost-free addition and this is an addition

1316
02:06:53,860 --> 02:06:58,860
to making the workweek shorter not instead of that I think is phenomenal and I'd never

1317
02:06:58,860 --> 02:07:02,900
really thought about it I think it was actually Sarah Jenke I'll give her credit I think it

1318
02:07:02,900 --> 02:07:08,220
was her that first mentioned this but was the start time of a shift I've done exactly

1319
02:07:08,220 --> 02:07:12,620
like you said I've always got up at 5 a.m. gone to the station relieve my my you know

1320
02:07:12,620 --> 02:07:16,660
whoever my partner is you know 30 plus minutes early to make sure they don't get a call and

1321
02:07:16,660 --> 02:07:22,340
don't be able to go home to their families and so that Sarah was saying that that sleep

1322
02:07:22,340 --> 02:07:26,020
before and I think Joel Billings said this too the night before a shift you know they

1323
02:07:26,020 --> 02:07:31,440
see some of the worst sleep of the entire you know three or four day cycle and to make

1324
02:07:31,440 --> 02:07:38,260
the start time 11 a.m. midday seems genius to me and even you know obviously I lived

1325
02:07:38,260 --> 02:07:43,420
in LA for a while I was living in Burbank and traveling to Anaheim so you know the rush

1326
02:07:43,420 --> 02:07:47,380
hour is an absolute nightmare for a lot of us so to be able to wake up in your own bed

1327
02:07:47,380 --> 02:07:51,740
if you're going to shift have breakfast with your kids send them off to school give your

1328
02:07:51,740 --> 02:07:57,740
loved one the kiss and then go into your car and drive to the station seems incredible

1329
02:07:57,740 --> 02:08:03,140
but then also the person who's on shift to not be woken up by some insane all call at

1330
02:08:03,140 --> 02:08:08,580
7 a.m. being forced to go do a shift change but you just got your ass handed to you and

1331
02:08:08,580 --> 02:08:14,500
now you can sleep till 9 10 that seems genius too so I'll start with you Christina what

1332
02:08:14,500 --> 02:08:20,060
is your kind of philosophy on that because I think that's I mean it's free it costs zero

1333
02:08:20,060 --> 02:08:24,620
dollars to do that and it would absolutely impact the you know yet another element of

1334
02:08:24,620 --> 02:08:32,300
this whole sleep conversation is why are we getting up at 5 a.m. to go to work yeah Dr.

1335
02:08:32,300 --> 02:08:37,900
Matthew Walker similar to Jason's point was saying if you aren't getting good REM just

1336
02:08:37,900 --> 02:08:46,660
sleep another hour and that that is the prime time for you to be able to get more REM so

1337
02:08:46,660 --> 02:08:56,180
said I know when I'm coming off shift if I or you know days at home yeah eight eight

1338
02:08:56,180 --> 02:09:05,160
o'clock 830 that's that's normal time for getting up and trying to get some restorative

1339
02:09:05,160 --> 02:09:11,580
sleep I don't honestly never heard that noon start time I have heard about the success

1340
02:09:11,580 --> 02:09:18,420
I believe it's Chicago fire changing their start time to 8 p.m. so essentially you have

1341
02:09:18,420 --> 02:09:24,300
your day with your family and then you have one night at work and then you go home and

1342
02:09:24,300 --> 02:09:31,060
you get a normal sleep night I'm intrigued by that but I do agree when we have our 48

1343
02:09:31,060 --> 02:09:39,180
hours having that second day the difference between a house that has everybody get up

1344
02:09:39,180 --> 02:09:48,820
for roll call at 7 versus one that day to take it slow sleep in you know maybe about

1345
02:09:48,820 --> 02:09:55,740
10 o'clock will do roll call that completely changes everything about the way that you

1346
02:09:55,740 --> 02:10:02,500
go about your day the rest that you feel it's such a game changer so I definitely agree

1347
02:10:02,500 --> 02:10:10,340
that it's time to start doing some studies around what would be optimal for us but regardless

1348
02:10:10,340 --> 02:10:15,820
yeah 5 a.m. there's there's a lot that happens in our sleep cycle that is not complete at

1349
02:10:15,820 --> 02:10:26,060
that 5 a.m. start time so that's really fascinating Jason your thoughts I am intrigued on that

1350
02:10:26,060 --> 02:10:31,620
I do I do like that because again like we just we're talking about that REM sleep there

1351
02:10:31,620 --> 02:10:36,940
wouldn't be an issue with that we'd get those full cycles and again suicides next to sudden

1352
02:10:36,940 --> 02:10:42,860
cardiac death are the top killers of firefighters well if we could help snip in the butt the

1353
02:10:42,860 --> 02:10:51,180
one number one or number two killer of us well that's a huge that's a huge deal I think

1354
02:10:51,180 --> 02:10:55,580
the only thing in terms of getting it put into a department I guess especially like

1355
02:10:55,580 --> 02:11:00,580
where I work would be maybe giving I would say having people have heads up with five

1356
02:11:00,580 --> 02:11:07,900
to ten years where they might be able to adjust their life or where they're at to get to

1357
02:11:07,900 --> 02:11:12,300
that point because again I know depending on people different scenarios it's that'd

1358
02:11:12,300 --> 02:11:18,500
be kind of difficult to how they have it structured now but I do think that is something that

1359
02:11:18,500 --> 02:11:22,720
should be pursued more and hopefully with these type of studies that Christina alluded

1360
02:11:22,720 --> 02:11:29,740
to that are getting all this funding staggering shifts start times and seeing quality of life

1361
02:11:29,740 --> 02:11:35,860
and minimizing liability for departments and overall happiness all those type of metrics

1362
02:11:35,860 --> 02:11:41,340
need to be looked at because I can I can just if I just had to guess that that would be

1363
02:11:41,340 --> 02:11:46,980
that would be a department that would score super high and all the above with that I love

1364
02:11:46,980 --> 02:11:52,700
the phrase don't wait for science to prove what you already know is true oh yeah that's

1365
02:11:52,700 --> 02:12:00,380
beautiful we are we're encountering that with this program because there's been so much

1366
02:12:00,380 --> 02:12:08,660
success in the veteran and military but it had there hasn't been studies done on firefighters

1367
02:12:08,660 --> 02:12:15,300
so the next step in our evolution is partnering with some of these science researchers these

1368
02:12:15,300 --> 02:12:23,220
sleep doctors and getting funding to be able to do studies on large groups of firefighters

1369
02:12:23,220 --> 02:12:29,620
applying these techniques to show the medical efficacy but you're so right the number of

1370
02:12:29,620 --> 02:12:37,220
people that I have seen whose lives have changed with applying these techniques is is just

1371
02:12:37,220 --> 02:12:44,620
staggering and we can't wait for the science to catch up we we live the job we're the boots

1372
02:12:44,620 --> 02:12:51,180
on the ground we know the experience and how it feels and and so I guess that's one thing

1373
02:12:51,180 --> 02:12:58,980
about being pioneers you you make the way and you know that's it's it's a challenge

1374
02:12:58,980 --> 02:13:06,660
when we just want people to be able to apply and reap the benefits and there's a lot of

1375
02:13:06,660 --> 02:13:15,620
the upper management that wants that proof and so we're going to be doing our best to

1376
02:13:15,620 --> 02:13:24,020
work on getting that proof but in the meanwhile continuing to share the stories of success

1377
02:13:24,020 --> 02:13:28,220
you know we all are in I mean humanity has been inspired by stories stories since the

1378
02:13:28,220 --> 02:13:34,780
dawn of time and and so my story Jason's story all the stories of these other firefighters

1379
02:13:34,780 --> 02:13:40,700
I'm holding on to as the proof until we can get the actual medical markers to show otherwise

1380
02:13:40,700 --> 02:13:48,860
well I mean it's when I have people just say to me can you send me the data I always tell

1381
02:13:48,860 --> 02:13:51,940
me firstly the fact that you're asking me that means that you couldn't find it and there's

1382
02:13:51,940 --> 02:13:56,060
a reason for that because the fire service hasn't done the research goes back to the

1383
02:13:56,060 --> 02:14:00,620
IFF certainly previous administration why were you not studying this why are there not

1384
02:14:00,620 --> 02:14:06,460
people looking for grants on this but to take a step back what you want me to show you is

1385
02:14:06,460 --> 02:14:13,180
data that shows that a 56 hour week is worse than a 42 hour week are you really asking

1386
02:14:13,180 --> 02:14:17,540
me that should that badge be on your chest if you can't even decipher that you know you've

1387
02:14:17,540 --> 02:14:20,980
got all these videos about smoothball nozzles and tiny houses but you can't figure that

1388
02:14:20,980 --> 02:14:26,700
equation out that's just where we're at what you're using is you're using that I need data

1389
02:14:26,700 --> 02:14:31,820
as a coward's tool to not actually act you don't need data you need to put your big boy

1390
02:14:31,820 --> 02:14:36,580
pants on look at the facts look at the fact that the fire service is in shambles at the

1391
02:14:36,580 --> 02:14:42,980
moment and be part of the solution so forget your data it's common sense it's absolute

1392
02:14:42,980 --> 02:14:48,500
common sense that of course an extra 24 hours between each shift would give you a healthier

1393
02:14:48,500 --> 02:14:54,660
happier higher performing workforce and you would save money I will say since you have

1394
02:14:54,660 --> 02:14:58,940
such a large audience James if I could just put this out into the internets if there's

1395
02:14:58,940 --> 02:15:06,840
anyone who's doing a PhD study in public policy or working in a science just a science

1396
02:15:06,840 --> 02:15:13,980
back back job but just sleep anything we will have such a large sample size for you to use

1397
02:15:13,980 --> 02:15:21,160
so please reach out that would be an amazing connection if that was someone out there has

1398
02:15:21,160 --> 02:15:26,380
a brother or sister and who's getting a PhD done we'd be more than happy to work with

1399
02:15:26,380 --> 02:15:31,700
you so just want to put that out there beautiful well hopefully someone listening will I'm

1400
02:15:31,700 --> 02:15:36,340
sure it again I'm sure Joel or Sarah would know people that are in the program now but

1401
02:15:36,340 --> 02:15:40,980
this is what we need like we need to annotate it but for example city of Gainesville near

1402
02:15:40,980 --> 02:15:47,740
where I live they've just gone to it and hopefully I think the I think it's FSU if I'm not mistaken

1403
02:15:47,740 --> 02:15:52,220
I hope they did baseline samples before they made the shift and they've been doing it I

1404
02:15:52,220 --> 02:15:57,420
think it's just a month now not very long at all maybe three weeks but what an amazing

1405
02:15:57,420 --> 02:16:01,380
opportunity to study right before and then obviously clearly they're going to see you

1406
02:16:01,380 --> 02:16:07,420
know everything improved but annotation is is is absolutely needed but I think not at

1407
02:16:07,420 --> 02:16:11,500
the expense of waiting for that data and I think this is what a lot of departments are

1408
02:16:11,500 --> 02:16:16,780
using as a excuse is not to act while they continue to bury their people all right well

1409
02:16:16,780 --> 02:16:21,740
Christina tell everyone listening the tools that are available that you offer and then

1410
02:16:21,740 --> 02:16:29,460
where people can find them so right now Jason and I are we have a beta program that we just

1411
02:16:29,460 --> 02:16:36,900
launched it's a six module online program that is self-paced it has about 10 videos

1412
02:16:36,900 --> 02:16:44,700
per module and it is on sleep and biohacking so we bring along people alongside of us and

1413
02:16:44,700 --> 02:16:53,380
nerd out on sleep its effects why firefighters can't sleep and then the tools to practically

1414
02:16:53,380 --> 02:17:01,300
put these tools into being because ultimately there's so much information out there people

1415
02:17:01,300 --> 02:17:08,540
can begin to you know they can just pull up on Google things that will help my sleep but

1416
02:17:08,540 --> 02:17:14,320
those things don't always apply to firefighters so we have tried to take all the tools that

1417
02:17:14,320 --> 02:17:20,660
we've seen as relevant and applicable not only have we distilled those into a program

1418
02:17:20,660 --> 02:17:27,540
we have from a coaching standpoint tried to create it in such a way that every step builds

1419
02:17:27,540 --> 02:17:36,460
on another so people can immediately put into practice the tools that that we show them

1420
02:17:36,460 --> 02:17:46,260
so there's sleep assessments and there's tracking measures and these you know quick drills we

1421
02:17:46,260 --> 02:17:52,980
have put together this program that was that was my mission in fact Jason I first conversation

1422
02:17:52,980 --> 02:17:56,900
when he approached me he's like why don't we can do an online program this would be

1423
02:17:56,900 --> 02:18:02,900
great people could get all the knowledge and I was like I am a coach it's not knowledge

1424
02:18:02,900 --> 02:18:08,920
that changes people life implementation it's it's the ownership of creating that change

1425
02:18:08,920 --> 02:18:13,340
for themselves and it's really hard around your sleep changes hard but around your sleep

1426
02:18:13,340 --> 02:18:20,860
it's so hard and so we built this program with that in mind that it's not just to give

1427
02:18:20,860 --> 02:18:27,300
people all of this these data points it's to give people opportunities to create these

1428
02:18:27,300 --> 02:18:33,540
shifts in their life and so we're really proud of the online program we've just blood sweat

1429
02:18:33,540 --> 02:18:40,900
and tears into this this last year and the videos are five to fifteen minutes long so

1430
02:18:40,900 --> 02:18:46,420
ultimately someone's walking or running on the treadmill they can put it on you know

1431
02:18:46,420 --> 02:18:54,960
they have five minutes over their coffee they can take a tidbit to apply we are in this

1432
02:18:54,960 --> 02:19:01,100
beta phase we're just working out the kinks so people can access it at a rate that's going

1433
02:19:01,100 --> 02:19:07,700
to be dramatically less than what it will be in the future for someone who just wants

1434
02:19:07,700 --> 02:19:14,700
to begin applying immediately and start creating that change it's a great a great way to do

1435
02:19:14,700 --> 02:19:23,620
so the retreats I really enjoy because it gives you the ability to just disconnect from

1436
02:19:23,620 --> 02:19:32,900
normal life and put all of your focus in on creating rest and refreshment for yourself

1437
02:19:32,900 --> 02:19:39,660
in an environment that is completely supportive of that and in a way that you know I let's

1438
02:19:39,660 --> 02:19:44,500
just say breath work for example if someone tells me oh there are here are these three

1439
02:19:44,500 --> 02:19:52,500
breath work options I might think to myself oh that one of three I think is most interesting

1440
02:19:52,500 --> 02:19:58,180
so I'll do that one but until I've actually experienced it I don't know which one works

1441
02:19:58,180 --> 02:20:03,860
best for me and so I love the retreats because it gives people the opportunity to literally

1442
02:20:03,860 --> 02:20:12,460
go through all the tools in the toolbox to feel in their bodies what shifts that nervous

1443
02:20:12,460 --> 02:20:18,740
system for them and then they have a community of people who are also interested in similar

1444
02:20:18,740 --> 02:20:26,300
things putting this into practice and so the retreats I generally try to do three a year

1445
02:20:26,300 --> 02:20:33,540
one in the fall which I have one October 27th 28th and 29th in the Portland area Portland

1446
02:20:33,540 --> 02:20:39,900
Oregon area generally one in February and March just winter seasons when all we want

1447
02:20:39,900 --> 02:20:47,060
to do is like sleep and get snuggly anyway and so that one you know it's not as readily

1448
02:20:47,060 --> 02:20:54,200
available it's I only have 10 spots available for each retreat but for someone who just

1449
02:20:54,200 --> 02:20:58,500
knows I probably am not going to go through an online program I have too much going on

1450
02:20:58,500 --> 02:21:03,380
in my life I really just want to disconnect and get everything at once that's another

1451
02:21:03,380 --> 02:21:10,500
great option so for your audience James we are offering 50% off so we'll have a code

1452
02:21:10,500 --> 02:21:23,780
of BTS what did we say Jason? BTS 5050. BTS 50. So not the Korean boy band. So if they

1453
02:21:23,780 --> 02:21:32,980
go on our website tacticalsleeprescue.com they'll see a apply for the beta link they'll

1454
02:21:32,980 --> 02:21:39,500
follow that link and then at checkout they'll put in that code to get 50% off so we're

1455
02:21:39,500 --> 02:21:46,780
doing those are the two ways that feel very authentic for us to offer these tools and

1456
02:21:46,780 --> 02:21:51,300
so you know maybe in the future there will be other ways but that's our focus right now

1457
02:21:51,300 --> 02:22:02,260
and I will just say as a caveat this takes so much ownership and ownership is can be

1458
02:22:02,260 --> 02:22:11,620
very challenging for people so we hope to show that the stakes really are high and at

1459
02:22:11,620 --> 02:22:22,380
the same time as we take ownership as we hold ourselves to a standard of care the same standard

1460
02:22:22,380 --> 02:22:28,420
of care that we attempt to give our patients we need to give ourselves we need to honor

1461
02:22:28,420 --> 02:22:37,900
our own humanity and as we prioritize that we will see these tiny shifts we're not talking

1462
02:22:37,900 --> 02:22:42,820
about hours and hours and hours of the day we're talking about things that take five

1463
02:22:42,820 --> 02:22:50,100
minutes ten minutes you know doable tools that create these shifts you will begin to

1464
02:22:50,100 --> 02:22:58,340
see impact across every single area of your life Dr. Walker says no element of our biology

1465
02:22:58,340 --> 02:23:06,900
is unscathed from sleep deprivation and so relationship health performance family all

1466
02:23:06,900 --> 02:23:17,220
of these things will reap a reward it's incredible that you know we we talk about little shifts

1467
02:23:17,220 --> 02:23:24,420
to create massive change that's what happens when you focus on improving your sleep so

1468
02:23:24,420 --> 02:23:29,260
that's where people can find us but that's why we're passionate and as Jason mentioned

1469
02:23:29,260 --> 02:23:38,260
please reach out to us we love hearing stories we're so happy to assist in any way and we

1470
02:23:38,260 --> 02:23:44,340
have a link for departments on our website so if they're interested we have a link for

1471
02:23:44,340 --> 02:23:50,100
individuals if they are just wanting to get through to themselves and then the retreats

1472
02:23:50,100 --> 02:23:59,220
anything to add yeah I think just to follow up to I think the pain of when the pain of

1473
02:23:59,220 --> 02:24:05,100
staying the same is harder than the pain of change that's when people will check out our

1474
02:24:05,100 --> 02:24:10,780
program and and look into helping themselves we talked about the standard of care but also

1475
02:24:10,780 --> 02:24:16,500
setting a standard for just having young people kind of aim at well if you don't have a standard

1476
02:24:16,500 --> 02:24:22,060
of care that you're aiming to take care of yourself then how can you do anything else

1477
02:24:22,060 --> 02:24:26,740
in your life or be an example for anybody so you can't help anyone until you help yourself

1478
02:24:26,740 --> 02:24:33,660
and until you self-rescue yourself you can't be that best best kind of yourself too so

1479
02:24:33,660 --> 02:24:39,420
um just wanted to end it with that and um again feel free everyone to check out the

1480
02:24:39,420 --> 02:24:45,660
website it's tacticalsleeprescue.com and again it's that bts 50 um we're really excited

1481
02:24:45,660 --> 02:24:51,260
where we're going that beta group we have is we have about five to ten members of uh

1482
02:24:51,260 --> 02:24:55,180
fire station nine and skid row working on it right now and so we're really happy to

1483
02:24:55,180 --> 02:25:00,700
see where that goes and um yeah just really appreciate you having us on james and had

1484
02:25:00,700 --> 02:25:05,420
an awesome time and conversation so we want to thank you very much yeah thank you so so

1485
02:25:05,420 --> 02:25:16,700
much