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This episode is sponsored by Transcend, a veteran owned and operated performance optimization company that I introduced recently as a sponsor on this show.

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Well, since then, I have actually been using my products and I've had incredible success.

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There was initial blood work that was extremely detailed and based on that, they offered supplementation.

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So I began taking DHEA, BPC 157 for inflammation based on the fact that I've been a stump man and martial artist and a firefighter my whole life.

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Lots of aches and pains.

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Dihexer to help cognition after multiple punches to the head and shift work and peptides.

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Four months later, they did a detailed blood work again and I was actually able to taper off two of the peptides because my body had responded so well to just one of them that it was optimized at that point.

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So I cannot speak highly enough of the immense range of supplementation that they offer, whether it's male health, female health, peptides to boost your own testosterone, which I would argue is needed by a lot of the fire service, or whether it's exogenous testosterone needed, especially after TBIs or advanced age.

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Now, as I mentioned before, the other side of this company is an altruistic arm called the Transcend Foundation, which is putting veterans and first responders through some of their protocols free of charge.

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Now, Transcend are also offering you the audience 10% off their protocols and you can find that on JamesGearing.com under the products tab.

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And if you want to hear more about Transcend and their story, listen to episode 808 with the founder Ernie Colling.

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Or go to TranscendCompany.com.

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Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast. As always, my name is James Gearing and this week it is my absolute honor to welcome on the show Firefighter Turn Chaplain, Joshua Strom.

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Now in this conversation, we discuss a host of topics from his early life, his journey into the world of scouting, wildland firefighting, the unique responses of the Grand Canyon Fire Department, his journey into Chaplaincy, responding to Hurricane Helene,

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the emotional ripple effect that that disaster is going to have on the first responders and civilians and so much more.

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Now, before we get to this incredible conversation, as I say every week, please just take a moment.

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Go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback and leave a rating.

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Every single five star rating truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making it easier for others to find.

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And this is a free library of almost 1000 episodes now.

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So all I ask in return is that you help share these incredible men and women stories so I can get them to every single person on planet Earth who needs to hear them.

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So with that being said, I introduce to you Joshua Strom. Enjoy.

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Well, Joshua, I want to start by saying simply thank you for reaching out.

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We're going to talk about a bunch of things today, including not only what happened post Helene, but also the impact of responding to that or living in that area and, you know, our our rescuers and the ripple effect from that.

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But I want to begin by welcoming you onto the Behind the Shield podcast today.

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Thank you.

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So where on planet Earth we finding you this afternoon?

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So I am in Keene Sport, Tennessee, which is the northeast corner tip of of Tennessee.

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If you're looking at a map, so we're about an hour north of Knoxville.

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Beautiful.

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Well, I'd love to start at the very beginning of your timeline.

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So tell me where you were born and tell me a little bit about your family dynamic, what your parents did, how many siblings.

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OK, so I'm born and raised from this region, even though my family's from Texas, my father's came up here for work and from Texas.

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And so if I sound more Texan and Tennessee, that might be the might be where it got it from.

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But but yeah, we, you know, I kind of grew up literally with bunker boots on.

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My dad was a volunteer fire chief, worked in rescue services.

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So there's a picture of me at three years old sitting in his bunker gear boots, trying to put his gear on.

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So kind of was grew up into emergency services.

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And but yeah, born and raised and worked here locally in my own county and the next county over and also worked several different areas around the country.

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But this is this is even though I've been pretty much in a lot of this United States, I've always come home.

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So this is home to me.

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What was your father doing outside of the fire service?

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What was his career?

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So my dad, not only was he a volunteer fire chief and also a rescue squad chief, he he worked for Eastman Chemical Company.

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So he was a hazmat material specialist.

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So basically anything that went wrong, hazardous materials, it's his job to clean it up, take care of it, dispose of it.

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He also worked on the fire side of it at the plant.

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So heaven forbid, I would much rather have a house fire than a chemical fire.

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Chemical fires are scary, but he loved it.

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He enjoyed it.

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That's what he did for 40, 42 years.

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So what about sports and exercise?

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What were you playing and doing during the school ages?

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So I wasn't your, I guess, typical teenager.

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I did play baseball.

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Baseball is my sport better than football because I didn't like getting crushed.

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Football is strong in Tennessee and I just wasn't a big enough boy to play it yet.

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But no, I was mostly in outdoors hunting and fishing, backpacking.

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My father was heavy, heavy into the outdoors as well, and dog hunts.

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And so, but I'm third generation Eagle Scout, so I was heavily involved in scouting.

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And so that was a part of my life as well.

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So even though I played baseball, it was just more for fun.

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Played a little league here and there, but didn't really play team sport as much.

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And yeah, so mostly stayed in the outdoors.

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So I was an outdoorsman.

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Going back to your dad for a second, a question just popped in my head.

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Were there any things that he mentioned, obviously being so well versed in the hazmat side

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from a career perspective that maybe on the fire side, we were kind of naive about

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or some of the mistakes that were constantly being made?

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Because I can think immediately from my career, some hazmat calls where my men,

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in this case, my brothers, were very, very lucky to walk away.

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And I hope to God there isn't a ripple effect later in their life.

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Right. I think my father was a pioneer as far as clean gear.

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So I was still when I was cutting my teeth in volunteer fire service and professional,

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you know, the big thing then was salty.

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You got to be salty.

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Your helmet nasty, your gear nasty.

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You know, if it stands upright, you know, it's you're great.

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And we have always had that one firefighter.

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It's like, I got to look dirty.

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And so he's rolling around in the muck just so he looks like he done something.

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But, you know, my father was very he's two things stickler with

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clean your gear always after every call.

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And he he was always like, hey, don't be a hero.

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Put your mask on. Put your SCBA on.

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And, you know, be safe about it.

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There was, you know, some of the guys really like, hey, it's just a simple car fire.

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It's like, no mask up.

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So he was a very strong opponent before the research ever came out of being,

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you know, exposures out there.

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Of course, he saw a lot in the chemical plant.

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So that kind of prepped him for the the the real world a little bit.

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But yeah, he was he was a stickler.

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If we ever had a structure fire, you know, he was, hey, clean your gear, clean,

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clean yourself, you know, he always after every fire that I remember as a kid,

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he would go and shower off clean, try to detox because he and that was in the 80s.

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That's the head of his time.

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There wasn't really until a recent recent change.

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So it must be fascinating going to work and seeing what the procedures are and the PPE

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and the decon for being exposed to certain chemicals and carcinogens and contrasting

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that, especially in the 80s, to the complete disregard.

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And it's funny because if you parallel with, you know, a biohazard, you know,

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I had the anthrax suits and all that stuff that were given to me.

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But as you said, a car fire or dumpster fire, I mean, that's an absolute carcinogen

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cocktail, you know, class B's and all the other things.

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So, you know, I'm sure the professional hazmat industry must look at the way that we

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do a lot of things and go, they've lost their mind.

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What the hell are they thinking?

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Right.

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You know, I just remember, if you've ever had a decon shower out in the middle of nowhere,

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it's not the funnest thing to have.

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But mine happened in the 4th of July.

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And, you know, it was a meth lab.

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I started my fire service in EMS through the meth explosion.

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And so it was another meth lab fire.

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And then when we found out it was a meth lab fire, we started taking deeper protocols.

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And, you know, some of the guys took it seriously, you know, because we're volunteers

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and some of them didn't.

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And it's like, hey, guys, you know, and that was kind of part of my dad's training,

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harping on the, you know, limited amount of exposure as possible.

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And he'd always say, don't be a hero.

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You know, don't go out there, be a hero, do it smart.

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So, absolutely.

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Well, I think that's what a real hero is.

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They make calculated risks, you know, not just, you know, cautions of the wind.

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All right.

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Well, then walk me through your journey into scouting.

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So, you know, some kids hit baseballs and have a high batting average.

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Some kids, you know, play football.

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I was the kid that knew every knot.

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You know, before I could even use the knot in the fire service, I knew it.

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And, of course, you know, having my father like, hey, here's how you tie a clove hitch

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around an axe.

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And a funny, quick story, he taught my brother and I, we had a very tall house and he was

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like, hey, if you guys ever get trapped in this house and you got to go out the window,

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he showed us how to bundle up our bed sheets and create a fast rope.

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And so that was probably a bad experience for me.

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I had to go out the window and get a fast rope.

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And so that was probably a bad move for like, you know, middle school age boys, because

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one summer my mom's going by and she's watching us zip down out the window, practicing what

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dad taught us.

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But, you know, in scouting, it was very heavily, you know, it's just a part of our family.

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It's something we did every Monday, every weekend.

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It's something I do with my son now and with my daughters.

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That was my sports, I was very well versed in knots and camping skills, hunting skills,

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fishing.

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And I kind of missed those days of just getting on my bike and biking to the lake down the

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road and just throwing a pole.

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And it didn't matter if we caught anything.

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But all those skills were enhanced in scouting and all the way up from my childhood until

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when I got my eagle, my father was right there every step of the way with us.

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And still is involved in somewhat with the local community today, even though I'm grown

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up and I've got my own child and children to raise, he's out there helping.

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So amazing.

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Now, what was that kind of perspective or lens that you have when you started being

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a leader within the scouting community?

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Well, you know, scouting, you know, it teaches leadership.

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And the thing is that I can't imagine I can't imagine a world without it because it was

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so part of it.

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But, you know, you laugh at the Girl Scouts for selling the cookies, but it's a life skill

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they're learning.

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They're learning, you know, so many life skills.

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The same thing is Scouts.

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I think we sold a bunch of stuff to and Boy Scouting.

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But but it's boys leading boys.

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And so it gives you the opportunity of mentoring and developing a team.

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And I think that's, you know, as well as I do in any type of emergency service environment,

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there is a team format.

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And so it kind of I think in a way prepped my dad for what he did.

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And it prepped me for what I did because I already had that team environment growing

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up and working together.

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And it was boys leading boys.

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So the older boys, when they learned it, taught it to the younger boys.

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So they just trickled down.

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And there's so many gentlemen, there's so many people.

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I lose track of how many people out there I've met through Scouting.

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And they're in very high, you know, one's a Federal Circuit Court judge.

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Another one is an eye surgeon, so many different variety of and not just an eye surgeon, a

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leader in this field.

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So I think it takes us to the next level from a child, a young adult to the adult.

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We're going to talk obviously about, you know, mental health.

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And this is something that became apparent early when I started doing these interviews.

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The impact of our early life on our mental health as we progress, whether it's into a

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first responder profession, whether it's simply just becoming an adult.

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When you reflect back now, you've obviously got a lot of warm memories of your childhood.

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Were there any elements of your upbringing do you think that contributed to struggles

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later in life?

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Yeah, I think so. We touched on this offline.

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You know, I grew up at the end of that generation of boys don't cry, rub some dirt in it, get

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up, walk it off.

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And I did that to my own brother.

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My brother's two years younger than me.

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We were BMX bike and I said, just walk it off.

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And he had a multiple complex fracture in the ankle.

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And then the next step was crick crap crunch.

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And so here I am taking him to the hospital.

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It's like walk it off.

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But we grew up in that generation and we grew up with, you know, I didn't get to see my

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father cry until we both lost a person in the lot of duty.

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So you know, there's five times in my life that I've actually watched my dad just fully

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weep.

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And so when my dad would come home from a bad day, and a lot of these bad days were

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told to me by the old timers later on.

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And so guys that took me under their wing and say, let me tell you about your father.

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Let me tell you what he did here.

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Because they were too painful for my dad to talk about.

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So my dad's way of dealing with it was not to show that side of it.

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So I think growing up and not having that, you know, I guess positive, it's OK for a

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man to weep.

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It's OK for a man to let go.

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So my dad would do that in private.

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Still does a lot, but, you know, it wasn't until we both lost somebody in the line of

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duty that we cherished greatly that we wept together.

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And that was, I mean, both of us, you know, adults.

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And I was in my 30s.

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And so, you know, it's it's that's something, you know, that we were just talking and, you

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know, suck it up, go on.

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And so you can only suck it up so much.

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And so, yes, I have all these warm, fuzzy feelings.

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But yet there are some things there that byproduct of the 80s childhood, you know, that, you know,

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it just wasn't a good role model behavior of what men can and can't do.

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That's interesting.

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When you're talking about that, you know, there was a point where he was unable to resist

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that innate need to simply cry.

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And you think about the wall, you know, you can build it and build it and build it.

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But something is going to overwhelm it.

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The loss of a brother or sister, the loss of a family member.

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And so then you take a step back and go, well, then why have I built it so high?

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If this needs to happen when these circumstances come together.

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And I'll be honest, this week, for some reason, I've had a couple of times where I have and

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I don't even know where it's coming from.

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But it's always obviously a sign that, yeah, there's a little overload going on.

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But having that wall low allows you to see, you know, to kind of feel the overflowing

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cup as it were, a lot, lot sooner than if you've built this kind of two dimensional

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Terminator esque facade of stoicism.

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And then it's only something that a critical point where you finally are allowing what

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your body wants to do the whole time to actually happen.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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And that's the thing.

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It's a stoic wall.

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You know, I want to consider my dad the this superhero.

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You know, I grew up, you know, the funniest I'll share in my childhood is that my mother

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was working.

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My father was, you know, your volunteer fire chief, you wear many hats, you know, and he

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wasn't working at the chemical plant that day.

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The pager goes off.

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And so, you know, it's the old school pagers where the dispatcher gets on, starts repeating

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what call is going on.

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And so so he's looking at us, he's looking at no babysitter in the parking lot, you know,

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in the driveway, and he's like, Come on, boys.

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And so we get in the truck and and and we drive down to the station and there's still

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not anybody to watch us.

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So he's like, Come on.

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And here we are as you know, I think I was seven or eight, my brother's two years younger.

255
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And we're riding down the road, buckled into this fire truck, run into a brush fire.

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And then he's like, you know, don't touch anything and don't get out of the truck.

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And you know, so we're sitting there like plaster against the window watching our dad

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fight this brush trash fire, you know, and we got to watch a couple of other fires as

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a kid him on because he just didn't have anybody to watch us.

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And you know, I could go down to my local volunteer fire station where I volunteer and

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heaven forbid if I took one of my children on the truck, it would be some serious trouble.

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So so that was, you know, growing up watching that and watching my dad be this hero, but

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not the walls, very strong stoic, you know, not a fear, but just, you know, the man, you

264
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if you meet him, he couldn't he can't be the stranger.

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When it came to the job, there was that that different persona that different I got a job

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to do.

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I'm in job mode.

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And and that was I saw both sides of that as a kid.

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You know, the dad would get around and wrestle with me on the ground.

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And then the dad that was on the fire scene, it's like, you know, different person.

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Yeah, I think that that stoicism is where it's needed.

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But then there has to be the unpacking as well.

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And I think stoicism has kind of been misinterpreted as the kind of John Wayne, you know, Stallone

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two dimensional caricature of you know, what a quote unquote man is.

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And that's absolutely not as we know, some of the most fearsome warriors on this planet.

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You know, I've had many of them crying on my show.

277
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So there we go.

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You know, that's what a man has to do.

279
00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:48,280
Right.

280
00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:52,120
Well, you mentioned brush fires, walk me through your journey into the wildland firefighting

281
00:19:52,120 --> 00:19:53,120
community.

282
00:19:53,120 --> 00:20:03,320
So, so the funny story is, is that when you turn 18, you're like, what am I going to do?

283
00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:10,880
And so I wanted to be like this well rounded forest ranger slash park ranger.

284
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And so I everybody gave me chunks of advice.

285
00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:15,200
So I got my EMS certification.

286
00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:19,920
Of course, I had firefighting structural firefighting for being a volunteer.

287
00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:22,040
But I got into wildland firefighting.

288
00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:28,360
And if you're somebody who loves to hike, and you love to get out in the woods, and

289
00:20:28,360 --> 00:20:31,720
then you're like, Oh, yeah, yeah, I'll go out and fight wildfires.

290
00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:34,520
And it is a totally different ballgame.

291
00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:37,040
So it looks cool in the movies.

292
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And I don't think there was a movie out there yet about wildland firefighters.

293
00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:41,580
But, you know, it looks cool.

294
00:20:41,580 --> 00:20:49,120
And then you get out there on a 16 hour day with a chainsaw, or a an axe or Pulaski.

295
00:20:49,120 --> 00:20:52,640
And you're just chopping away creating a fire line.

296
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But you know, I talked about being on a team environment, you really want to bond.

297
00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:02,760
There's 12 guys I was on a fire crew with and I know their children's names and their

298
00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:08,320
spouses and what they're doing like, and we've been years apart.

299
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:12,960
We developed this friendship that lasts forever on a fire crew.

300
00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:16,720
But I got into wildland firefighting to add to that toolbox of I'm going to be this well

301
00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:21,920
rounded park ranger and have all these multiple hats.

302
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:25,680
Because I was fascinated with somebody I was mentoring when I was younger 18 19.

303
00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:28,880
And he he was a fire chief and he was wildly and fired.

304
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:33,800
But he was over a fire district for the National Park Service.

305
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:38,880
And so he just had so many different tools and so many different like hats he could do.

306
00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:44,680
And so I just started kind of emulating him and wildland firefighting was a part of it

307
00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:51,280
and got into doing that more than I actually enjoy that more than structural.

308
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:56,040
And you know, everybody, you know, I talked to a structural firefighter and they're like,

309
00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:57,040
no, pack me up.

310
00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:58,040
I'll go into house fire any day.

311
00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:03,240
And I'm like, I'd rather sit on the ridge and watch the fire line.

312
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:04,880
And there's a term spin the weather.

313
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:09,680
That was my favorite job was getting out there with a barometer and spinning, checking wind

314
00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,040
direction and just watching the weather.

315
00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:16,120
And so that's a skill that when I'm with my kids and we're out hiking, I'm like, no, that's

316
00:22:16,120 --> 00:22:17,120
that's not going to touch us.

317
00:22:17,120 --> 00:22:18,120
Well, how do you know that?

318
00:22:18,120 --> 00:22:20,000
Let me show you how to read the clouds.

319
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:22,400
And you know, and then they just think that's the coolest thing.

320
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:25,360
And to me, it was a Tuesday, you know, when I worked.

321
00:22:25,360 --> 00:22:30,160
So but but I loved every aspect of it.

322
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:34,440
There's you know, there's not any other job on the planet where you can sit at a 12000

323
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:39,000
foot peak and overlooking a fire line that's 80 percent contained.

324
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:43,740
And you're just hoping, you know, your your job is to make sure you you get somebody down

325
00:22:43,740 --> 00:22:45,840
there if it does jump containment.

326
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:51,960
So you're sitting there 12000 foot elevation and you're on this peak and it's three in

327
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:56,120
the morning and you're drinking a cup of coffee and you're just like.

328
00:22:56,120 --> 00:22:57,520
Wait wait for the sunrise.

329
00:22:57,520 --> 00:22:59,760
What other what other job can you do?

330
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:03,360
That's just that to me that more enjoying.

331
00:23:03,360 --> 00:23:10,040
And so, yeah, I got into it to get that tool, the toolbox metaphorically.

332
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:13,960
But I ended up enjoying it way more than the others.

333
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:19,000
So how did that take you to the Grand Canyon Fire Department?

334
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:22,280
Because that's that's you know, you think of the Grand Canyon, obviously you think about

335
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:23,840
the massive gorge.

336
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:25,960
But I don't think of a fire department attached to that.

337
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:26,960
So this is interesting.

338
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:28,960
Yeah, it's very interesting.

339
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:35,840
So so to give you a little quick Grand Canyon is 280 miles long east to west.

340
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:42,240
And depending on where it adds and you were from 10 to 25 miles wide, it's vast.

341
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:51,000
And so my role at the Grand Canyon, it was one of those multifaceted, you know, you everybody

342
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:52,920
brought a skill to the table.

343
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:59,560
And so you had eight thousand foot elevation at the rim, the elevation was anywhere from

344
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:00,840
five to eight thousand feet.

345
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:04,040
You had the Kaibab Plateau, the Kaibab Forest.

346
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:09,840
So you had these very heavy ponderosa pine conifer forests that, you know, they they

347
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,640
when it gets dry, they love to go up like matches.

348
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:19,400
You know, so you had that on top of but up against a hundred year old buildings that

349
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:23,120
were built at like the 1900s, 1902, 1903.

350
00:24:23,120 --> 00:24:29,080
And so our job at the Grand Canyon Fire Department, South Rim, because we were on the south side

351
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:33,680
of the canyon and it's divided in two sections, north and south.

352
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:40,240
South is a bit bigger as far as this is what the National Park Service main Grand Canyon.

353
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:41,240
People go visit the Grand Canyon.

354
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:45,280
They usually go north rim, south rim, or they go all the way to the west side of it towards

355
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:46,280
Vegas.

356
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:50,880
That's all Native American, mostly controlled.

357
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:55,000
So a lot of visitors that come and visit the west side towards Vegas, that benefits the

358
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,880
tribes that live in and around the canyon.

359
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,480
The section I was working for was the small section.

360
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:08,040
I say small, it was very fast, but the east side of the Grand Canyon, the eastern end.

361
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:11,080
And so but we were urban interface.

362
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:17,320
So we had to protect the structures that can't be replaced and monitor them.

363
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:21,760
And I'm talking about like everything from checking, you know, you're doing your basic

364
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,080
checking fire extinguishers, checking.

365
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,640
We had sprinkler systems that would pop out.

366
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:27,880
Yellowstone has this too.

367
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:32,320
If there's ever a fire, we could pop them through the roof and it's just starts deluging

368
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:37,360
the just the building with water, massive amounts of water so that if there was ever

369
00:25:37,360 --> 00:25:40,040
a fire, it's protected.

370
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,640
And so you have to check on those things.

371
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:48,920
And so we're constantly in the fire season, you're in fire watch, making sure that there's

372
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:52,880
not a fire because these buildings are so old, they can't be replaced.

373
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:53,960
There's so much history in them.

374
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,720
So you're kind of an urban interface firefighter.

375
00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:58,640
But in the wintertime, you're everything.

376
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:00,760
You're EMS, you're rescue.

377
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,320
There's rescue that needs to be done.

378
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:06,880
You know, we were multifaceted.

379
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:12,080
Every person that had a job and I was on the fire side of things, you all did multiple

380
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,240
hats to get it done.

381
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:20,040
And I was thankful in the two years that we only had actually one active what you would

382
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,760
consider an urban type fire was the wildfire.

383
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:29,420
It was one of the propane tanks that from the laundry because there's massive amounts

384
00:26:29,420 --> 00:26:34,360
of laundry to be done with these lodges that are in the canyon, these historic lodges.

385
00:26:34,360 --> 00:26:41,240
And so one of the propane tanks, it's heater box to keep it from freezing short circuited

386
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,220
and it basically created a giant flamethrower.

387
00:26:44,220 --> 00:26:49,640
And so it was the only time in my ever career that I got to do what I was trained walking

388
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:55,960
up to that, creating that fire blanket or that blanket with water, creating that blanket

389
00:26:55,960 --> 00:27:01,160
to insulate us and walking up so we could shut off the gas.

390
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:06,880
You train on the propane tree three or four times in your career, maybe five, fighting

391
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:07,880
propane fires.

392
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,040
But this was actually the real deal.

393
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:14,040
And then, you know, making sure that we evacuate the surrounding areas.

394
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:18,000
And so that was the only the wildest thing we had.

395
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,680
Most of the time it was, hey, put that campfire out.

396
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:26,940
Somebody starting to fire, they shouldn't or a dumpster fire and having to find a dumpster

397
00:27:26,940 --> 00:27:32,960
fire because they threw their coals from the campfire into the dumpster, which and, you

398
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:37,320
know, bandaging up people who feed the squirrels.

399
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:39,560
So this is just a short PSA.

400
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:42,320
But if you ever go to the Grand Canyon, do not feed those squirrels.

401
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:43,320
They will take a finger.

402
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:47,400
I don't know what it is about the Grand Canyon squirrels, but they're vicious.

403
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:49,880
They claim lots of fingers every year.

404
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:55,080
So because people they treat the parks like a zoo and they're like, oh, look, this is

405
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,440
wildlife and it's still wild.

406
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:02,400
And so, you know, there's very simple, mundane things we did.

407
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,120
And then there's some things that we did that was pretty cool.

408
00:28:05,120 --> 00:28:11,200
It's like, hey, I'm glad we're here because it would have been worse if we weren't.

409
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:12,840
What about the hikers?

410
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:17,640
It seems like every year you hear of fatalities of people that have underestimated the condition,

411
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:22,880
especially if it is a rim to rim, the kind of extreme trek that people do.

412
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:27,960
So again, PSA for people listening, do's and don'ts when it comes to the hiking side of

413
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,760
the Grand Canyon.

414
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:35,440
So the Grand Canyon, when I was there, they had started a program called the PSAR, Preventative

415
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:37,440
Search and Rescue.

416
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,120
And so basically they had a team of people.

417
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:44,220
All they did was hike the trails and they would hike five miles in and five miles back

418
00:28:44,220 --> 00:28:49,280
and they would just look for, for lack of a better term, a stupid person or an unprepared

419
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:50,280
person.

420
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:55,480
And you would get a lot of people in flip flops, shorts, Hawaiian shirt with a little

421
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:59,240
water bottle the size of a 20 ounce soda.

422
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:03,160
And they were like, well, I saw in the telescope up here at the visitor center, the river,

423
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,120
I'm just going to go hike down there real quick.

424
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:12,960
Well, real quick, that's 15 miles down and 15 miles back, you know, 33 miles round trip

425
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,840
and you're not going to get there until late at dark.

426
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:16,840
So how are you going to get back up?

427
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:21,040
And the temperatures in the bottom of the canyon might be 90 degrees at night or day

428
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,960
and it's going to be 20 or below at night.

429
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,320
So you know, you're going to freeze to death by the time you get down there.

430
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,960
So a lot of it was catching people before they come.

431
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,960
And so it's very heavily regulated and permanent.

432
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:39,240
You can hike down a couple of miles down to what they call like a watering hole or a little

433
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:43,140
spot to rest and, and, and hike back up.

434
00:29:43,140 --> 00:29:46,280
That's a fairly decent hike, but they've got, they've got to keep people.

435
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:47,760
The parks do in the peak summer.

436
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:55,480
They got to keep people from going past that mark if they're not prepared and checking

437
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:56,480
permits.

438
00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:01,160
And, and here's the thing is some of the rescues I was involved with, I was rescuing people

439
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:07,080
who were very competent in the outdoors, very well-prepared, very competent and still had

440
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:08,880
an emergency.

441
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:13,880
There was a, I say young lady, she was in her sixties and her husband and her had on

442
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,600
the bucket list to hike the Grand Canyon.

443
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:18,160
And, and they, she did it.

444
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:20,440
She went down to the bottom, spent the night hiked back up.

445
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:25,960
It was a very cold weather and even somebody who was been accustomed to the Colorado winters

446
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:26,960
got hypothermia.

447
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:32,760
So you're talking about a very well-prepared hiker, very well-prepared outdoors person,

448
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,200
and they still were, you know, met some challenges.

449
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:41,040
And so think before you do and, you know, plan, you got to plan everything when it comes

450
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:42,040
to the parks.

451
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:46,920
If you don't have a plan, even in the smokey mountains, you can get yourself in trouble.

452
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:47,920
Yeah.

453
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:52,520
You know, it's, it's, it's very well, you know, 45 minutes from Knoxville, it's, you've

454
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,760
got Gatlinburg, you've got Pigeon Forge, you've got these communities around it.

455
00:30:55,760 --> 00:31:00,240
But when you get in there, you finally get in the back country and you're stuck, you're

456
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:01,240
stuck.

457
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:02,920
And so a lot of people forget that.

458
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,160
So you got to plan ahead and prepare.

459
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:06,160
So beautiful.

460
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:10,280
Well, I know obviously the, that element is going to factor into our conversation in a

461
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:12,320
little bit as well.

462
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,560
You've been through, you know, you've worn all these hats from volunteer to, you know,

463
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:19,040
wildland firefighter and then now the Grand Canyon.

464
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:22,800
Walk me through, you know, the next few years and your own mental health journey.

465
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:26,700
Obviously we're going to talk about the impact of some of the rescuers and, and, and Helene

466
00:31:26,700 --> 00:31:31,380
and the, and the residents, but what was your kind of roller coaster ride yourself and where

467
00:31:31,380 --> 00:31:35,000
was the darkest place that you found yourself?

468
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,960
So you're going to try to make me cry on camera now.

469
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:45,600
So here's the thing I feel comfortable about sharing that in a way that that's part of

470
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:47,280
my healing.

471
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:52,560
People realize that it's like a, you know, the early days of we're going to put everything

472
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:53,560
in a basket.

473
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:55,620
We're going to seal it off and forget about it.

474
00:31:55,620 --> 00:31:57,440
We know now that doesn't work.

475
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:01,120
And sometimes just releasing it bits at a time.

476
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:04,080
So, so, you know, I've had multiple different facets.

477
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,120
EMS was probably the hardest for me.

478
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:12,320
I am a, so I'll just tell you, so I'm in, I'm in, I'm in the medic school.

479
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:16,080
I'm getting my EMT at that time, EMT basic.

480
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:17,720
I'm doing very well.

481
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:18,720
Trauma was my game.

482
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:25,240
I could, I could do trauma inside and out medical a little harder, but trauma was it.

483
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:30,120
And I was working on one of my clinicals and my instructor looks at me and I love him.

484
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:36,440
He still teaches to this day, but, and he oversees our EMS program up here in this region,

485
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:40,280
but he looked at me and he goes, you got a backup career in mind?

486
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:44,320
And I said, uh, uh, yeah, yeah, it's not going to be my end game.

487
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:45,560
This is going to be part of it.

488
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:46,840
He's like, good, good, good.

489
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,000
I'm like, why are you asking?

490
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:53,200
He goes, you're just one of those individuals that if you, if this is going to be a long

491
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:55,480
haul mode for you, you're going to have to learn some things.

492
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,200
And I kind of got really angry a little bit with them.

493
00:32:58,200 --> 00:32:59,520
I was like, what are you talking about?

494
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:02,560
I'm tough, you know, and flex the muscles.

495
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:08,120
But he just saw a little bit of himself in me and he had been doing it for, you know,

496
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,400
20 plus years before instruction.

497
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:15,800
So we joke around his EMS license says zero, zero, zero, zero, zero one.

498
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:17,520
But, but he's been around for a while.

499
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:21,720
So he was just kind of like making sure that, you know, if I was going to this for the long

500
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:25,600
haul, he was going to use his tidbits of wisdom.

501
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:30,840
But I worked, I mean, that's, I put myself through college working as an EMT, you know,

502
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:32,360
I got out of a couple of exams.

503
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:38,720
I got to come in looking like I'm full of soot one day or looking pretty rough dragon.

504
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,560
And the professor looks at me and goes, what happened to you?

505
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:43,800
I was like, well, I'd love to tell you.

506
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:49,600
And so I was able to take an exam or two later to get some time to rest and recoup.

507
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:55,600
So I put myself through college working as a EMT in this county and a neighboring county.

508
00:33:55,600 --> 00:34:05,160
And so I kind of look at it as a, it's not, and I think I said this on the dark side project.

509
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:10,640
I shared a video with you years and years ago when I started my journey of healing and

510
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:12,440
it wasn't one call.

511
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:14,760
It's never just the one call.

512
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:15,760
It wasn't for me.

513
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:21,040
It was a, you just keep packing that suitcase, keep packing that suitcase and then it gets

514
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:22,040
full.

515
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:23,440
You can't cram anything more on it.

516
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:25,600
And everyone knows this analogy.

517
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:29,880
You pack the suitcase, you try to sit on it, you're pushing, you're shoving, you're doing

518
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:33,120
everything you can to get it all in the suitcase.

519
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,760
And that was me with every bad call.

520
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:43,800
I think one of the darkest was working four fatalities in one month, one a week.

521
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:45,040
They were all teenagers.

522
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:46,960
They were all on a busy thoroughfare.

523
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:48,640
They were all five minutes with my house.

524
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:51,960
I had to drive either way back home.

525
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:58,800
And that wasn't, how do you prepare yourself where you got to drive back on your way home?

526
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,240
You just drove by that fatality.

527
00:35:02,240 --> 00:35:10,360
And so, EMS, working full time EMS, working full time emergency services, I am divorced.

528
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:14,680
I've had one wife or two, I'm married now.

529
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:18,760
I have two wives, but my ex-wife and then my current wife.

530
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:24,520
And so it cost me a marriage.

531
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:26,400
I never got angry.

532
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:28,800
I might have drank a little bit to mask.

533
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:34,060
There was some masking behaviors, but I was really good at packing that suitcase.

534
00:35:34,060 --> 00:35:35,060
Really good at packing that suitcase.

535
00:35:35,060 --> 00:35:40,660
And then I have moments that I would flare up and then I would pack that suitcase again.

536
00:35:40,660 --> 00:35:47,760
But it got to the point, I'll tell you, I had a son in NICU and he was fine.

537
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:48,760
He was my wife.

538
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:52,500
He was born premature, almost a month premature.

539
00:35:52,500 --> 00:35:58,480
And so I'm sitting there working a double fatality car wreck with a son in NICU with

540
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,480
a wife by the bedside of my son.

541
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,560
And I was emotionally done.

542
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:10,980
The chief at the end of the call could look at my eyes and go, don't walk out.

543
00:36:10,980 --> 00:36:14,480
I was getting my gear clean like I always do, but he knew it was something a little

544
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:19,160
extra in that just a little something was there.

545
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:24,920
He's like, just go home, go be with your son, come back next week.

546
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:26,240
And I didn't come back next week.

547
00:36:26,240 --> 00:36:27,240
I took some time off.

548
00:36:27,240 --> 00:36:31,120
I took some time away.

549
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:34,320
But I had a wife that going through, my son is fine.

550
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:35,320
He's happy and healthy.

551
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:40,800
He's almost nine years old now and I've got three kids.

552
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:49,320
But it was that and that's I think my wife, my second marriage, my wife, she came from

553
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:50,920
working in emergency services.

554
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:52,760
Her mom was a trauma nurse.

555
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,160
So she kind of was, I'm ready for this.

556
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:59,960
I'm ready for a little bit of you're going to have bad days and you can't talk about

557
00:36:59,960 --> 00:37:00,960
them.

558
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,680
And how do you go to your wife and your spouse?

559
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:09,400
You talk about everything too and say, hey, I just watched a whole family die on the interstate

560
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:15,280
like that and your son's a NICU and you're already emotionally compromised.

561
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:16,280
So I'm not going to share that.

562
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:18,680
I'm going to pack it in that suitcase.

563
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:27,960
And she was really good at really realizing that I wasn't well.

564
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:34,240
I think without her in my life, it wouldn't be my parents that would keep me out of the,

565
00:37:34,240 --> 00:37:36,000
you get to a point where you start contemplating.

566
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:42,880
I wouldn't say I was planning suicide, but my idea or my version of it was strapped on

567
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:46,120
a backpack, covered myself with honey and walk into the woods and let the bears get

568
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:47,120
me.

569
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:49,720
I mean, I was thinking that I was so overwhelmed.

570
00:37:49,720 --> 00:37:55,240
I was so like, it's like you're walking and the world's on fire.

571
00:37:55,240 --> 00:37:56,560
All right.

572
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:59,560
You get up in the morning, you put your uniform on.

573
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:02,960
And I've said this to a couple of friends of mine, I've counseled, I've said this to

574
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:08,760
a couple of, we've said to small therapists that I still see the therapist to keep myself

575
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:09,760
mentally healthy.

576
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:15,640
And when you put the uniform on and you want to vomit before going into work because you

577
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:18,120
don't know what the day is going to be like.

578
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:27,240
And it just, so yeah, it was just the weight is hard to describe.

579
00:38:27,240 --> 00:38:35,960
But I'll tell you, like I said, a wife that recognized something's not right, honey.

580
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:38,080
You're not right.

581
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,160
You're emotionally distanced from the children now.

582
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:42,600
You're emotionally distant from me.

583
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:44,400
And she was pretty, I wouldn't say brute force.

584
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:45,400
I married an Italian.

585
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:50,440
If you're familiar with Italians, they have a personality for being forward.

586
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:52,160
And she was very forward with it.

587
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:53,560
I think it's great.

588
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:56,160
But the thing that she says to women.

589
00:38:56,160 --> 00:39:00,440
Well, the reason why I'm the co-founder of this, my wife and I created this ministry.

590
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:07,120
And so, she on the spousal side of things, when she speaks to women, she's like, I realized

591
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:12,320
I can't fix them and I don't have the tools to fix them, but I can have the tools to send

592
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:14,000
them to somebody who does.

593
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:17,920
So she was really good at like, hey, why don't you go talk to so-and-so?

594
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:22,000
Why don't you go just have a conversation or go out to lunch?

595
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:26,960
She was really good at pushing me to make that step because I was drowning.

596
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:31,600
I couldn't push anything in there anymore.

597
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:35,480
But when it all broke, it was a call.

598
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:38,400
My first true fatality.

599
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:44,400
And I say true fatality, like I was, it's funny how when you, when all that, when the

600
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:46,240
suitcase unravels, right?

601
00:39:46,240 --> 00:39:48,400
You have that, take that same analogy.

602
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,920
You sit on it, you get off of it and it springs out and there goes all your laundry.

603
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:55,280
And that's what happened to me when I finally blew.

604
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:59,840
When I, and it wasn't, it wasn't a physical yelling at my children.

605
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:04,120
It was just in a ball of tears, not knowing how to deal with that emotion because I was

606
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:06,080
never role modeled it.

607
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:12,360
But and I'll share this and I'm trying to choke back a tear, but the call that was deep,

608
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:16,760
the deepest call inside was losing two children.

609
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:21,160
And all I could do at the time while we were cutting them out of the car and their mother

610
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:27,200
was stuck in the car was rub the mother's hair and just say, Hey, I love you.

611
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:28,400
Jesus loves you.

612
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:29,840
Let me pray for you.

613
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:34,240
And just comforting the mother because I didn't want her to go into shock.

614
00:40:34,240 --> 00:40:36,360
And so I was doing everything I can to keep the mother.

615
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:41,400
That was my job on that call was while we were cutting the car was to keep the mother

616
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:48,480
focused on me because out of all of the surviving injuries, soon as the mother and her two kids.

617
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:54,400
So I realized when it did the damn broke and that call was the bottom.

618
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:56,800
I mean, I carried that through my first marriage.

619
00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:02,600
I carried that through the in between the first marriage and the marriage now, but that

620
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:06,440
call came up and it broke everything else loose from me.

621
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:13,440
But when I was able to get that out, it was like I was a hundred pounds lighter.

622
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:19,560
I could float and I was sharing it with somebody that was ready and able, but that was a long

623
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:20,840
journey to get there.

624
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:24,880
But that was the, it was not, like I said, you could pile it up, but the biggest call,

625
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:27,120
the one that hurt the most was that.

626
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:33,760
And it took me a little, little while to realize what's what caused it all to blow.

627
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:43,360
Well, those children at that time were like young six and I think maybe eight.

628
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:50,040
So when I had my son, my, my two daughters were the same age as those two girls.

629
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:51,920
So I'm, my son is born.

630
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:55,800
I'm, you know, he's in the hospital, he's doing fine, but he's got some road to go.

631
00:41:55,800 --> 00:42:00,400
And I get that family that's taken out of the interstate and it just all unravels because

632
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:05,520
it brings back the last call, the first call and everything in between.

633
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:06,920
And it took a while.

634
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:11,480
It took several weeks to, to get there to talk.

635
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:13,440
I mean, I'll still talk about it.

636
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:15,320
I don't know if you can see him.

637
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:22,120
I'm choking back a tear or two, but it's, uh, it was, it was tough because that's something

638
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:27,600
that, you know, I held onto for a decade or more.

639
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:33,720
That one call, you know, and they pushed every single thing in front of it as I kept going

640
00:42:33,720 --> 00:42:35,100
along my journey.

641
00:42:35,100 --> 00:42:41,200
But that one call, the call that I should have been properly debriefed on, um, the call

642
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:46,040
that, um, no one saw the overwhelming potential.

643
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:49,120
Um, I had a bystander come up to me.

644
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:50,720
He met me years later.

645
00:42:50,720 --> 00:42:54,720
He was like, I was on this call and I was like, well, what were you doing?

646
00:42:54,720 --> 00:42:58,920
It was like, I worked in that business that this car wrecked in front of.

647
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:04,040
And I thought you were her husband the way you were loving her.

648
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:13,240
And, uh, and I didn't realize because I was so focused at my job that my love for the

649
00:43:13,240 --> 00:43:19,120
job, my love to save a life, uh, my love to, to emulate my father.

650
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:23,600
Cause I watched my father do it, but all, I mean, I was pouring everything in that moment

651
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:26,240
to keep her stable.

652
00:43:26,240 --> 00:43:28,480
And I didn't know what was going on around me.

653
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:30,320
I knew what was going on with the kids.

654
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:31,400
We were all in tune.

655
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:36,440
Like when I was watching him getting pulled out, but I was, my job was don't let her go

656
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:40,480
into shock while we're cutting her out of this car.

657
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:41,600
And so I was doing everything I could.

658
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:50,360
I was pouring everything of myself into that patient and, um, I could not talk about that

659
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:51,360
call.

660
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:56,360
I didn't talk about that call, um, until a decade or two, almost a decade and a half

661
00:43:56,360 --> 00:44:02,560
later and, but it was once it unraveled, once the suitcase exploded and all your laundry

662
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:03,560
goes everywhere.

663
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:06,640
And I love that metaphor because it's dirty laundry, right?

664
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:10,840
Cause it's all the deep dark stuff that you don't want everybody to see.

665
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:12,680
Um, and you're trying to stuff it.

666
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:14,760
It just goes everywhere and it does.

667
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:20,440
Um, I was fortunate, very, very fortunate to be married to a wife that I've been married

668
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:27,640
to 15 years now, um, that recognized that I was exploding, recognized I was spinning

669
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:35,440
out and, and would not stop until I got help.

670
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:36,440
Would not stop.

671
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:38,760
Well, thank you for sharing that first.

672
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:42,760
I mean, this, this is the, this is what I always say, courageous vulnerability.

673
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:44,200
This is what we need to hear.

674
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:50,880
Like how, if you are not moved by trying to distract a mother from her two dead children,

675
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:55,480
which I wrote about a very similar one in my first book, or I had a little three year

676
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:59,840
old who was decapitated and my son was almost the same age, you know, fucking horrendous.

677
00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:01,720
It really, there's no other way to describe it.

678
00:45:01,720 --> 00:45:05,640
So to not be moved that by that would make you associate path.

679
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:10,360
But, you know, we have come from this generation where, you know, you think you're not supposed

680
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:14,440
to be so you, you bury it down, but it couldn't be further from the truth.

681
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:18,400
I wanted to ask you about that kind of, you know, putting on honey and walking into the

682
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:24,240
woods, something that has really emerged as a truth for a lot of people, not everyone,

683
00:45:24,240 --> 00:45:30,160
but most people when they get to crisis that you just don't really hear discussed is that

684
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:35,760
sense of being a burden that all these contributing factors, you know, and everything from, you

685
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:39,960
know, relationship issues and finances all the way through to see deprivation, organizational

686
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:47,120
betrayal, you know, the perfect storm literally shifts someone's reality.

687
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:49,640
There's an actual miswiring of the brain.

688
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:55,640
And over and over again, you hear these men and women that at that moment were convinced

689
00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:58,840
that they were the reason for their loved one's pain.

690
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:02,260
And if they just remove themselves, then their pain would go away.

691
00:46:02,260 --> 00:46:07,080
The loved one's pain, which, which takes that, you know, element that we were raised on suicide

692
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:11,560
is cowardly and selfish and a sin and how could you, and you hear these men and women,

693
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:15,320
some of whom are Christians, despite maybe believing that they were going to be condemned

694
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:16,320
to hell.

695
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:19,200
That was still the better choice for them than, you know, what they thought.

696
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:25,600
So in a way it makes it selfless and courageous at that point in that state of mind.

697
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:29,820
Now it's not the right state of mind, but it does reframe.

698
00:46:29,820 --> 00:46:34,080
Did you have that sense of burdensome yourself when you were at your deepest point?

699
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:35,080
Yeah.

700
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:42,100
I mean, I had those conversations of, I'll tell you, I was so, so my days off were not

701
00:46:42,100 --> 00:46:43,100
off.

702
00:46:43,100 --> 00:46:53,000
It was my brain and turning and you know, um, sitting there with a child on my lap,

703
00:46:53,000 --> 00:47:02,760
my child and rocking them to sleep and just bawling because I was given that moment of

704
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:06,120
vulnerability.

705
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:11,720
And then, you know, not thinking that my wife's in the background listening or watching and

706
00:47:11,720 --> 00:47:18,760
she, you know, she, she's knowing that those are not tears of joy, but I'm just decompressing.

707
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:20,360
And so I had those thoughts.

708
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:25,920
I had those thoughts of, you know, I was raised in a strong Christian environment, strong

709
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:28,160
spiritual environment.

710
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:35,640
I am a grand, my grandfather was a preacher for most of his life.

711
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:40,980
He was unique that he mined coal Monday through Friday and preached in a little country church

712
00:47:40,980 --> 00:47:44,760
up in Southwest Virginia on Sunday.

713
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:52,100
And, and so, you know, I, I, I was in a very, every little piece of my environment should

714
00:47:52,100 --> 00:47:55,640
have been stable and healthy.

715
00:47:55,640 --> 00:48:01,880
And I was still at a place of if I just exited this earth, everybody else's life would be

716
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:03,400
okay.

717
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:07,360
That thought got into my head and it's a whisper.

718
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:08,880
It's these little subtle whispers.

719
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:13,960
It's not a faint, uh, it's a whisper and it's a slow over time.

720
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:21,760
And as you start stewing on your unguided emotions, when you start feeling like you,

721
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:24,440
you have those emotions of no, I'm a burden to my friends.

722
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:26,640
I'm a burden to my family.

723
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:31,040
I cannot share it with the mother of three, everything that's gone on with me in the last

724
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:32,240
decade.

725
00:48:32,240 --> 00:48:38,680
And there's some really great moments, really great saves where, you know, you just go,

726
00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:43,880
wow, you know, I was a part of that, you know, but, you know, there's also those moments

727
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:48,940
that are dark and you can't share those with a loved one in the same way you would share

728
00:48:48,940 --> 00:48:50,440
with a coworker or a friend.

729
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:54,000
And sometimes you can't share those with a friend, especially in EMS because they're

730
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:56,320
going through the same darkness.

731
00:48:56,320 --> 00:49:02,840
You know, one of my best friends to this day and also a partner of five years in EMS, you

732
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:07,200
know, she lost her own father, uh, to suicide.

733
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:09,440
So there was moments of when we would have that call.

734
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:13,400
And I think we all would get that call at least once a year where you'd have to go.

735
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:16,360
And, you know, it's a coroner call, but you're still being called.

736
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:18,280
She would have to sit in the truck.

737
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:20,600
And so, because she couldn't, she couldn't get there.

738
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:21,600
She couldn't.

739
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:25,520
And so how do you have these conversations when your ambulance partner, when they're

740
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:29,040
walking through their own, their own ordeal, their own baggage.

741
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:35,080
And so, um, so yeah, you, you get there, even as some, I was, I was doing what you would

742
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:36,880
say the right things.

743
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:38,800
I was recreating with my children.

744
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:40,200
I would occasionally go out.

745
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:41,760
Uh, I played disc golf.

746
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:42,760
I don't golf golf.

747
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:43,760
I throw Frisbees.

748
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:48,800
Uh, but, uh, you know, I go out and disc golf, but there was still a, a little bit of me

749
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:54,840
that had that wall up at the time, um, that was still good at keeping, keeping the very

750
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:57,320
dark stuff away from everyone else.

751
00:49:57,320 --> 00:49:59,320
Um, and I wasn't dealing with that.

752
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:01,600
Um, and I wasn't, uh, talking it through.

753
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:08,880
I wasn't, um, and until I broke, I wasn't able to deal with that at all or have anybody

754
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:09,880
to go to.

755
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:14,760
So how do you, when you feel you're feeling isolated, you feel alone and I should, I was

756
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:20,400
raised in an environment with all these good mechanisms, but I wasn't taught how to cry

757
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:21,400
as a man.

758
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:26,940
I wasn't taught it's okay to sit down and let it all out.

759
00:50:26,940 --> 00:50:28,960
And if you need a friend, that's okay too.

760
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:29,960
Right.

761
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:33,440
Cause it was the tough, I got this, I'm a man, suck it up.

762
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:35,040
Let's go.

763
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:41,240
And so, um, so yeah, I was very isolated and lonely and those thoughts even creeped in

764
00:50:41,240 --> 00:50:47,160
and the strongest, deepest core of me knew that it shouldn't be there, but those thoughts

765
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:48,160
were there.

766
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:51,560
Well, I think that's where alcohol becomes such a danger.

767
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:53,640
I've had this conversation a few times.

768
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:57,800
Um, even my son, I think it was my son just asked me about it too, which was really interesting.

769
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:04,520
But, um, when you have that little part of you that still believes that that's wrong,

770
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:07,520
you're not wrong morally, but that voice is lying to you.

771
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:13,160
It's not your reality, um, but it's so dampened, but then you introduce alcohol.

772
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:17,840
It could be something else, but alcohol just seems to be the catalyst so many times it's,

773
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:21,320
it quietens the voice of reason, which is so tragic.

774
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:26,640
And I would say, and put it in a kind of a tongue in cheap analogy, a lot of us listening

775
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:32,240
have gone out with friends, had drinks and then had a, uh, you know, an encounter with

776
00:51:32,240 --> 00:51:34,280
a person sexually.

777
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:37,920
And the next morning gone, Hmm, if I hadn't a drank, I probably wouldn't have been with

778
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:38,920
that person.

779
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:44,160
So we know that alcohol distorts our mind, but this is what's so heartbreaking is you

780
00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:49,840
get someone and that whisper is in their ear and there's a little voice behind it that's

781
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:54,840
saying no, you know, they're wrong, but then you introduce the alcohol as well.

782
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:58,860
And I think more often than not, it gives that Dutch courage to then go through with,

783
00:51:58,860 --> 00:51:59,860
with the suicide.

784
00:51:59,860 --> 00:52:06,680
Yeah, because you know, I've lost two friends, uh, two suicide, two friends in emergency

785
00:52:06,680 --> 00:52:12,400
services and drugs and alcohol was one of the primary factors.

786
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:17,680
And um, I can tell you with my own journey, um, there's a lot of times that we, Hey, let's

787
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:21,200
go after a shift, go grab a beer.

788
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:27,360
And before I met my wife, um, you know, uh, there was, you know, years between my first

789
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:30,480
wife and, and when I got remarried, uh, the second time.

790
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:39,680
And so, um, I would go from the 24 hour shift, go out with friends, not come back home until

791
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:42,280
the next 24 hour shift.

792
00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:45,480
Because even being at home was painful, right?

793
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:51,320
Being at home, sitting in a, you know, sitting down in, in, in, at that time I was single,

794
00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:56,080
uh, and I had my family, but sitting down by myself was not a good place.

795
00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:58,000
I kept myself occupied.

796
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:03,840
Um, and I'll tell you the wake up call, and this goes back to my grandfather, who's the

797
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:04,840
minister.

798
00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:10,200
Um, he saw a pattern and he called me one day at four in the morning and he's like,

799
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:12,160
uh, you didn't come home in 24 hours.

800
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:13,800
Your parents are worried.

801
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:18,000
And at that time in between marriages, I had a little apartment, uh, above the garage of

802
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:19,880
my parents' house.

803
00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:21,960
And uh, that was my space.

804
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:26,760
Um, and uh, they helped me out by, uh, Hey, do some chores, we'll let you have that space

805
00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:27,760
rent free.

806
00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:31,480
And, and so, um, they, they were, they were like, Hey, this card didn't come home, but

807
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:32,480
he's a grown man.

808
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:33,480
He's 27.

809
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:36,600
Uh, but they, you know, she thought well enough to call my grandfather.

810
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:39,800
My grandfather thought well enough to, I don't care if it's four in the morning, I'm calling

811
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:44,760
him and I'm sitting in an IHOP and I'm ready to go in for the next shift.

812
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:46,720
And he's like, did you go to bed?

813
00:53:46,720 --> 00:53:47,720
I was like, no.

814
00:53:47,720 --> 00:53:48,720
And he goes, why?

815
00:53:48,720 --> 00:53:54,040
I said, when I lay my head down, I don't like what I see.

816
00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:57,000
Like I don't like, I, I'm having to deal with myself.

817
00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:58,320
I don't want to deal with it.

818
00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:00,320
I'll just keep going.

819
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:01,640
Right.

820
00:54:01,640 --> 00:54:07,360
And he goes, he said, Hey, finish your shift.

821
00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:09,800
If you need to go home and rest, do so.

822
00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:11,280
You've got, you know, you're an adult.

823
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:12,560
No one's telling you how to be there.

824
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:16,360
But he said, when you finish that shift, instead of going out with friends, come see me.

825
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:18,600
I don't care how late it is.

826
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:23,640
And so I did come see him and we talked all through the night.

827
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:28,200
And you know, he's, he's, he's a little country preacher and, you know, and, and it was a

828
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:34,480
coal miner, you know, but he, he was a man of wisdom and he did more for me than, than

829
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:38,160
say the initial counselor could have done at that moment.

830
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:41,880
And, and, and he kept me from going down an alcoholic path.

831
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:43,080
And why was that?

832
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:45,360
Because it was prevalent in our family.

833
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:46,360
It was prevalent.

834
00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:47,640
He had had that same habit.

835
00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:48,960
He had a break it.

836
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:55,200
My uncle, God bless, he's, he's broken his, he's sober.

837
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:58,640
And so he saw the same province because it was in his life.

838
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:02,600
And, and so he was trying to help me break that cycle.

839
00:55:02,600 --> 00:55:08,320
And I, my respect, the respect he had for me and my respect for him, it kept me, yeah,

840
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:11,040
okay, I'll go have one drink, but I can't have more.

841
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:17,200
I can't use substances to just dilute myself from the world.

842
00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:18,200
And it's not healthy.

843
00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:19,200
And you're right.

844
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:20,200
It does.

845
00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:23,400
When you're in that altered state, those whispers get louder.

846
00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:24,400
Absolutely.

847
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:28,880
Well, then you have this kind of literally come to Jesus moment, I guess, in that particular

848
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:32,400
case, talk to me about the upswing.

849
00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:37,080
What were the things that you started using the toolbox that you accumulated to get yourself

850
00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:40,520
out of that darkness and to a path of healing?

851
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:46,760
So, and I just got goosebumps because I'm sharing the positive.

852
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:56,760
So when I got to this point, when I'm married, my son is four and a half pounds, his diaper

853
00:55:56,760 --> 00:56:01,920
would fit in the palm of your hand, a little tiny guy, and I'm working through all that

854
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:05,400
and I broke, I finally broke.

855
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:12,200
And, but I broke in a safe environment.

856
00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:17,480
And I was able to share and my wife pushed me to go see a counselor.

857
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:21,200
And so I went to a nonprofit Christian based counseling.

858
00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:22,800
So these are trained counselors.

859
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:25,720
They consider what they do as a ministry.

860
00:56:25,720 --> 00:56:30,240
So they have the local churches help foot the rest of the bill.

861
00:56:30,240 --> 00:56:35,160
So there's not many places you can go and pay 25 bucks and see a professional therapist.

862
00:56:35,160 --> 00:56:38,080
And so, but they do it as a ministry.

863
00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:44,760
And so I went to this counseling center and funny thing is, is I was her first emergency

864
00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:46,540
services worker.

865
00:56:46,540 --> 00:56:51,920
She dealt with her, her main thing usually was children, but she also dealt with grief.

866
00:56:51,920 --> 00:56:54,320
She was really good at grief.

867
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:56,920
And in a way, that's what we're dealing with emergency services.

868
00:56:56,920 --> 00:56:58,680
We are the grief mop, right?

869
00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:01,920
Quoting, bringing out the dead, you know, the good book.

870
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:05,180
He said they felt like he was the grief mop in New York city.

871
00:57:05,180 --> 00:57:08,320
That's what we kind of are sometimes is we're mopping up everyone else's grief.

872
00:57:08,320 --> 00:57:13,320
And so, so I was grieving and, and multiple different things.

873
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:19,480
When I walked into that first session, you know, I'm more antsy than I am now talking,

874
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:20,480
right?

875
00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:25,080
And I was just, I was, I was vibrate is the words to describe it.

876
00:57:25,080 --> 00:57:30,280
And so she was, you know, we talked and I talked in circles and then, then after I was

877
00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:32,240
done, she's like, Hey, why don't you come back tomorrow?

878
00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:33,840
I got some time.

879
00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:38,720
And she's like on her phone, canceling all of her appointments from like 10 a.m. to 1

880
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:39,720
p.m.

881
00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:40,720
And I was like, okay.

882
00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:41,720
She said, come back at 10.

883
00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:45,360
And I came back in the second day and I remember saying her, I don't really know what I'm

884
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:46,360
talking.

885
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:48,720
I've said all I needed to say.

886
00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:54,460
And she just said to me, she said two things to me.

887
00:57:54,460 --> 00:57:58,360
She said, I love you.

888
00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:02,360
I love you as a human being and it's okay.

889
00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:07,400
And you can share with me what needs to be said.

890
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:12,680
So tell me what is the hardest thing to talk about.

891
00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:18,840
And it was like the balloon that popped, you know, it just, I was two hours long, just

892
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:27,300
bawling and weeping and just getting what I've compressed in a decade and a half out

893
00:58:27,300 --> 00:58:28,300
to a total stranger.

894
00:58:28,300 --> 00:58:34,300
He doesn't know me from Adam because this is the second session and she knew, she knew

895
00:58:34,300 --> 00:58:40,920
I was ready to bust and she knew to be very, I need to get him in here tomorrow.

896
00:58:40,920 --> 00:58:47,120
She knew I was also, I was textbook at that point of, hey, if we don't like start down

897
00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:51,920
this road of healing, this guy's going to become a statistic.

898
00:58:51,920 --> 00:58:57,860
And so, and I didn't know that until I started getting my own training to do the same thing.

899
00:58:57,860 --> 00:59:08,240
And so when I popped and to her, when I, I mean, in a healthy, loving, supporting, you

900
00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:10,440
know, she had to get up and go get me a couple of bottles of water.

901
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:11,440
I was crying so much.

902
00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:18,260
I was dehydrated, you know, it's just, it was just, but goes back to that free moment

903
00:59:18,260 --> 00:59:22,860
when you're able to just let go of all of that you've held onto that you think you have

904
00:59:22,860 --> 00:59:23,860
to hold onto it.

905
00:59:23,860 --> 00:59:25,820
That's another lie that's being told.

906
00:59:25,820 --> 00:59:27,160
You got to hold on to this.

907
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:28,420
No, you don't.

908
00:59:28,420 --> 00:59:29,520
You got to let it out.

909
00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:33,240
You got to have the vulnerability to let it out.

910
00:59:33,240 --> 00:59:34,680
And so I was vulnerable.

911
00:59:34,680 --> 00:59:36,920
I felt safe enough to let it out.

912
00:59:36,920 --> 00:59:39,880
You know, I look at the clock, it's 2pm.

913
00:59:39,880 --> 00:59:46,260
You know, so from 10am to 2pm, she helped shepherd me through some dark moments that

914
00:59:46,260 --> 00:59:48,760
I have stuffed up.

915
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:52,520
And it went on, I'm not going to say it happened overnight and it wasn't like, okay, thanks

916
00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:53,880
Doc, I'm healed.

917
00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:59,560
It was a once a week for six months that it was a once a month for six months.

918
00:59:59,560 --> 01:00:04,920
And then it's now once every three months, or if I have a moment I need to go in.

919
01:00:04,920 --> 01:00:10,200
So I learned the value of having that mental health checkup.

920
01:00:10,200 --> 01:00:14,040
It's just like going and seeing a doctor getting a physical.

921
01:00:14,040 --> 01:00:15,800
It's a mental health checkup.

922
01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:20,060
I had to learn like there's so many different things I love to do.

923
01:00:20,060 --> 01:00:22,280
And I shut those all down.

924
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:30,880
The thing is, when you start seeing somebody isolate from the world and turn away, it's

925
01:00:30,880 --> 01:00:33,160
a scary moment because there was things I love to do.

926
01:00:33,160 --> 01:00:34,160
I love to go outside.

927
01:00:34,160 --> 01:00:35,240
I stopped doing that.

928
01:00:35,240 --> 01:00:36,520
I love to fish.

929
01:00:36,520 --> 01:00:39,920
I stopped all the behaviors that were helping me.

930
01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:44,440
And I just kept isolating myself and I kept internalizing.

931
01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:49,240
And so going out and doing those things again, it was like, oh, I can do this again.

932
01:00:49,240 --> 01:00:52,880
I felt like I had permission to do it again.

933
01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:58,400
But my wife and I went into a marriage that was so healthy in the fact of we're here to

934
01:00:58,400 --> 01:01:03,400
help each other, but we can't fix each other.

935
01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:08,880
And so when she goes and speaks to spouses and they just they gasp when she goes, what

936
01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:09,880
did you say to him?

937
01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:10,880
I told him I can't fix them.

938
01:01:10,880 --> 01:01:14,120
And they all gasp and they're like, why can't you fix them?

939
01:01:14,120 --> 01:01:15,120
You're his wife.

940
01:01:15,120 --> 01:01:17,240
And she goes, no, I can't.

941
01:01:17,240 --> 01:01:18,400
I'm emotionally in that.

942
01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:20,680
I can help him get fixed.

943
01:01:20,680 --> 01:01:23,400
I can help lead him to that.

944
01:01:23,400 --> 01:01:24,400
But I'm just a helper.

945
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:26,040
I can't fix him.

946
01:01:26,040 --> 01:01:28,240
He's got to fix himself.

947
01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:29,720
And they still look like eyes.

948
01:01:29,720 --> 01:01:30,720
That's why.

949
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:35,720
So she's helping train on the spousal side of things of what to say, what to do, how

950
01:01:35,720 --> 01:01:37,720
to lead.

951
01:01:37,720 --> 01:01:38,720
But don't get into that.

952
01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:42,880
I'm going to fix the mode because I think I really think if she got into that mode,

953
01:01:42,880 --> 01:01:45,200
I would have shut down even more.

954
01:01:45,200 --> 01:01:50,720
But I needed at that moment somebody to give me permission to go somewhere and be vulnerable

955
01:01:50,720 --> 01:01:54,800
and come back and tell me about it.

956
01:01:54,800 --> 01:01:57,720
What impact do you think?

957
01:01:57,720 --> 01:02:05,560
The fact that your counselor was a child psychologist had on her ability to help you unpack, because

958
01:02:05,560 --> 01:02:09,840
as you mentioned, you've got the grieving side, the calls.

959
01:02:09,840 --> 01:02:14,160
But I would imagine I never thought about this until this conversation as someone who

960
01:02:14,160 --> 01:02:16,120
literally works with children every day.

961
01:02:16,120 --> 01:02:20,320
It doesn't mean that they should now suddenly start working first responders, but you're

962
01:02:20,320 --> 01:02:22,880
constantly having childhood conversations.

963
01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:27,520
And there's so many of us, as we touched on earlier, that the calls are only part of the

964
01:02:27,520 --> 01:02:29,800
jigsaw puzzle of their mind.

965
01:02:29,800 --> 01:02:30,800
Oh yeah.

966
01:02:30,800 --> 01:02:40,560
It totally because what she saw when I started talking, what she saw as a child psychologist,

967
01:02:40,560 --> 01:02:44,680
it's like you and I in the beginning share, I share a bit of who I am, where I came from

968
01:02:44,680 --> 01:02:45,680
my background.

969
01:02:45,680 --> 01:02:51,880
It's obvious I came from a very loving family, but just like in every family, we all have

970
01:02:51,880 --> 01:02:58,480
something that wasn't either properly instructed or properly said or done.

971
01:02:58,480 --> 01:03:02,080
And so there's a lot of childhood.

972
01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:08,520
Something I didn't share earlier is I was born with a speech impediment and I had a

973
01:03:08,520 --> 01:03:10,360
stutter because of that.

974
01:03:10,360 --> 01:03:13,080
It took me 18 years to get past that.

975
01:03:13,080 --> 01:03:15,800
So there was a confidence issue.

976
01:03:15,800 --> 01:03:22,160
And so part of my struggle when I'm sharing with her some things, it's just a light bulb

977
01:03:22,160 --> 01:03:23,160
went off in her.

978
01:03:23,160 --> 01:03:27,660
It's like, listen, this guy's got obviously a loving family, but was it role modeled how

979
01:03:27,660 --> 01:03:30,440
to handle these behaviors?

980
01:03:30,440 --> 01:03:31,680
I was role modeled all right.

981
01:03:31,680 --> 01:03:35,760
I was role modeled to suck it up.

982
01:03:35,760 --> 01:03:42,560
And there's calls that my father and I have run together.

983
01:03:42,560 --> 01:03:43,800
And that's another thing too.

984
01:03:43,800 --> 01:03:49,880
I love the fact that I'm like, yeah, my dad and I, like working EMS in the field together

985
01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:51,760
was just phenomenal.

986
01:03:51,760 --> 01:03:57,520
I miss a little bit of that part of it because it's just, it's different when it's your father.

987
01:03:57,520 --> 01:04:01,320
And my dad's kind of a bit of a cut up on the job too.

988
01:04:01,320 --> 01:04:06,320
It was just fun to see because for so many years I saw the very stoic, but then him and

989
01:04:06,320 --> 01:04:09,600
I working on the emules together, cutting up just like he was one of the partners I

990
01:04:09,600 --> 01:04:10,600
worked with.

991
01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:12,040
It was great.

992
01:04:12,040 --> 01:04:16,600
But to this day, there's calls that we'll look at each other and go, you remember that?

993
01:04:16,600 --> 01:04:18,440
Yeah, I remember that.

994
01:04:18,440 --> 01:04:22,360
That's all you say because he's not ready to talk about it.

995
01:04:22,360 --> 01:04:29,700
I might have already talking about it to my therapist or someone else, but so he still

996
01:04:29,700 --> 01:04:39,480
has troubles being 63 years and retired now, 64 years and retired, bringing up some of

997
01:04:39,480 --> 01:04:45,160
those calls that we've ran together.

998
01:04:45,160 --> 01:04:52,480
But the moment my dad was able to cry in front of me, I said, we lost a loved one in EMS.

999
01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:59,280
We had a coworker crash on our way to a call in her patrol truck.

1000
01:04:59,280 --> 01:05:05,560
She was a supervisor and hit a guard rail.

1001
01:05:05,560 --> 01:05:06,560
You remember those moments.

1002
01:05:06,560 --> 01:05:11,120
You remember hearing the cry out on the radio, 318 is down.

1003
01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:12,480
And you're way on the other end.

1004
01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:16,720
We've got a large county, it covers two cities, about 200,000 people in the county.

1005
01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:19,320
And that's a large county for up here in this part of Tennessee.

1006
01:05:19,320 --> 01:05:24,640
And so you're on one end of the county and you can't go anywhere because you're in that

1007
01:05:24,640 --> 01:05:29,000
zone and you want to run over and help your coworker.

1008
01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:30,000
She was like the mother.

1009
01:05:30,000 --> 01:05:35,440
There's 75 of us that worked in this EMS agency, three shifts, and she was the mother for all

1010
01:05:35,440 --> 01:05:36,440
of us.

1011
01:05:36,440 --> 01:05:39,200
She was the mother hen and we lost her.

1012
01:05:39,200 --> 01:05:43,680
And that night, my dad's coming off of his shift.

1013
01:05:43,680 --> 01:05:46,200
And so here we are, two men in uniform.

1014
01:05:46,200 --> 01:05:48,800
And we're like, we're going to go to church together.

1015
01:05:48,800 --> 01:05:52,480
And we went to the church service that night and we just sat in the back and cried with

1016
01:05:52,480 --> 01:05:55,280
each other.

1017
01:05:55,280 --> 01:06:02,400
But that moment was a good moment because I don't think I've ever, like I said, on my

1018
01:06:02,400 --> 01:06:05,000
hand five times, maybe.

1019
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:07,920
And most of those were as adulthood.

1020
01:06:07,920 --> 01:06:14,800
And so we felt strong enough together to let all that out, let all that emotion out.

1021
01:06:14,800 --> 01:06:18,040
We were kind of doing our own debrief a little bit.

1022
01:06:18,040 --> 01:06:24,040
And we still had the funeral to come up and things, and that was hard to get through.

1023
01:06:24,040 --> 01:06:30,240
But I think in that moment, that's one of the things that we could bring up.

1024
01:06:30,240 --> 01:06:39,520
Her son that she left behind, he has 73 parental figures plus in this community that checks

1025
01:06:39,520 --> 01:06:43,440
up on him regularly, including my father.

1026
01:06:43,440 --> 01:06:48,280
And we were able to bring that up and not be emotional because I think we gave ourselves

1027
01:06:48,280 --> 01:06:52,840
permission to be emotional in front of each other.

1028
01:06:52,840 --> 01:06:55,880
But then there's moments, like I said, that, hey, do you remember that?

1029
01:06:55,880 --> 01:06:56,880
I'm not ready.

1030
01:06:56,880 --> 01:07:01,720
It doesn't say the words, I'm not ready to talk about it.

1031
01:07:01,720 --> 01:07:08,680
So as that child psychologist, she could see it's not just my dad and me, it's my dad's

1032
01:07:08,680 --> 01:07:09,680
dad.

1033
01:07:09,680 --> 01:07:17,720
It's deeper issues that led me up to the moment I made it.

1034
01:07:17,720 --> 01:07:21,280
Even my EMT instructor, going back to earlier in the conversation, hey, you have a career

1035
01:07:21,280 --> 01:07:23,920
path other than this?

1036
01:07:23,920 --> 01:07:29,400
Because I have that, I am the child whisperer when I was working at EMS.

1037
01:07:29,400 --> 01:07:33,120
I mean, it's really good with children, it's really good with elderly, because I have that

1038
01:07:33,120 --> 01:07:35,960
warming nature when I'm working.

1039
01:07:35,960 --> 01:07:39,120
And I have that comforting nature.

1040
01:07:39,120 --> 01:07:45,480
And so, and I'm going to use the word shepherding because that's what I'm doing now, and is

1041
01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:46,640
shepherding nature.

1042
01:07:46,640 --> 01:07:49,600
And so, and that was great.

1043
01:07:49,600 --> 01:07:54,720
That was a great thing that I've learned from my father and grandfather.

1044
01:07:54,720 --> 01:08:00,800
But I didn't learn the emotional deeper stuff, how to deal with these emotions that men don't

1045
01:08:00,800 --> 01:08:02,160
talk about.

1046
01:08:02,160 --> 01:08:03,160
And so she saw that.

1047
01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:06,440
She saw something that she saw in other children that she's counseled.

1048
01:08:06,440 --> 01:08:10,200
And she had also counseled people, women through grief and men through grief.

1049
01:08:10,200 --> 01:08:15,400
But she said to me, and she didn't tell me this when she saw me, but a year later, she

1050
01:08:15,400 --> 01:08:20,560
said, you know, you were my very first, first responder with PTSD.

1051
01:08:20,560 --> 01:08:24,240
That I mean, she said I took all the training I've had.

1052
01:08:24,240 --> 01:08:26,840
I mean, I've had kids with PTSD and abuse.

1053
01:08:26,840 --> 01:08:28,920
I've had women.

1054
01:08:28,920 --> 01:08:35,440
But your actual very first and she is it's funny we joke about I was her first, but now

1055
01:08:35,440 --> 01:08:39,280
she's up to 30 people like myself.

1056
01:08:39,280 --> 01:08:41,840
And I feel like maybe I was her test case.

1057
01:08:41,840 --> 01:08:43,640
You know, I don't know.

1058
01:08:43,640 --> 01:08:48,880
And but she is definitely a huge part of our industry, too.

1059
01:08:48,880 --> 01:08:53,200
Well, what she said about not just your father, but your father's father, I just wrote a second

1060
01:08:53,200 --> 01:08:56,480
book and there's that multi generational trauma woven in.

1061
01:08:56,480 --> 01:08:58,320
I mean, you talked earlier about West Virginia.

1062
01:08:58,320 --> 01:09:02,560
You know, you look at that as being one of the hubs for the opioid crisis now, you know,

1063
01:09:02,560 --> 01:09:07,520
and there's no surprise that that was probably lining up with the closing of the mines.

1064
01:09:07,520 --> 01:09:09,520
So, you know, I've talked about this.

1065
01:09:09,520 --> 01:09:14,080
Yes, we have our struggles in uniform, but you know, what did our household look like?

1066
01:09:14,080 --> 01:09:16,600
And then what forged our parents to be that way?

1067
01:09:16,600 --> 01:09:18,840
And you know, you go back to World War Two, World War One.

1068
01:09:18,840 --> 01:09:21,440
I mean, you know, there's there's all these significant events.

1069
01:09:21,440 --> 01:09:27,120
A lot of these people came home from that then, you know, fast forward in 100 years

1070
01:09:27,120 --> 01:09:28,120
and here we are.

1071
01:09:28,120 --> 01:09:30,240
So that is another big part of it.

1072
01:09:30,240 --> 01:09:35,580
Not just, you know, your childhood specifically, but, you know, when you go back and you see

1073
01:09:35,580 --> 01:09:41,800
these dominoes that empowers you then in modern day to finally stop that next domino falling

1074
01:09:41,800 --> 01:09:43,840
and affecting your children.

1075
01:09:43,840 --> 01:09:45,320
Exactly.

1076
01:09:45,320 --> 01:09:50,200
Breaking the cycle, you know, and it's not just a breaking of a cycle.

1077
01:09:50,200 --> 01:09:56,040
It's hey, it's learning from it.

1078
01:09:56,040 --> 01:09:58,880
It's you know, I can tell you that my kids are getting a different.

1079
01:09:58,880 --> 01:10:01,360
It wasn't what I got was bad.

1080
01:10:01,360 --> 01:10:02,360
I love the 80s.

1081
01:10:02,360 --> 01:10:08,400
I loved every aspect of my childhood, you know, collectively.

1082
01:10:08,400 --> 01:10:13,560
But it's like, how can I be just one more when you break that cycle?

1083
01:10:13,560 --> 01:10:18,500
And you know, I have a son who goes through the same exact speech impediment that I did.

1084
01:10:18,500 --> 01:10:23,600
So I feel like, OK, well, now I know how to parent this kid because I was that kid.

1085
01:10:23,600 --> 01:10:24,600
Right.

1086
01:10:24,600 --> 01:10:30,540
So so, yeah, it's and then when I tell my son, like, hey, your dad, your dad was just

1087
01:10:30,540 --> 01:10:31,540
like you.

1088
01:10:31,540 --> 01:10:33,440
No, yeah, yeah.

1089
01:10:33,440 --> 01:10:39,120
So it's great to see that he's working through that and he didn't develop the stutter because

1090
01:10:39,120 --> 01:10:43,400
he's got the confidence of my dad got through this so I can get through this.

1091
01:10:43,400 --> 01:10:44,400
Right.

1092
01:10:44,400 --> 01:10:51,200
So and but yeah, it's a multi generational definitely because my father's father was

1093
01:10:51,200 --> 01:10:54,360
in the Korean War, three tours in the Vietnam War.

1094
01:10:54,360 --> 01:10:57,320
You know, we had to wake him up shaking his foot.

1095
01:10:57,320 --> 01:11:03,000
You know, like you want to talk about somebody he never talked about yet, ever, never brought

1096
01:11:03,000 --> 01:11:06,400
it up, brought it up one time when I asked 14 years old.

1097
01:11:06,400 --> 01:11:14,400
And he you know, he was also one of my great sources of if you ever get the everybody gets

1098
01:11:14,400 --> 01:11:21,000
the Steven Seagal or the Chuck Norris vet in the back of their ambulance.

1099
01:11:21,000 --> 01:11:22,520
You know, I did this, I did that.

1100
01:11:22,520 --> 01:11:25,960
And you know, they probably cleaned the motors or something.

1101
01:11:25,960 --> 01:11:31,440
But but his biggest thing to me was not everybody was was that.

1102
01:11:31,440 --> 01:11:38,340
And but you know, his job was to demine a harbor and why he was being shot at.

1103
01:11:38,340 --> 01:11:40,600
And that was all I got out of it.

1104
01:11:40,600 --> 01:11:41,600
That's it.

1105
01:11:41,600 --> 01:11:42,600
And the story.

1106
01:11:42,600 --> 01:11:45,880
What I mean, well, you were over there from start to finish in Vietnam.

1107
01:11:45,880 --> 01:11:46,880
What else?

1108
01:11:46,880 --> 01:11:49,800
Done in the chapter, right?

1109
01:11:49,800 --> 01:11:52,680
Heard everything about before in the Navy, everything after the Navy.

1110
01:11:52,680 --> 01:11:56,440
So there is there is a lot of it's it's you look back at it.

1111
01:11:56,440 --> 01:11:58,600
The PTSD goes through the generations.

1112
01:11:58,600 --> 01:12:04,400
Well, I think one thing that I believe will open the door, especially for that generation,

1113
01:12:04,400 --> 01:12:07,480
you know, because I've said this many times, I've had World War Two veterans on the show

1114
01:12:07,480 --> 01:12:13,800
actually interviewed to Iwo Jima vets a few months ago live on stage.

1115
01:12:13,800 --> 01:12:18,400
And you know, you think about how our generation talks about them or the greatest generation,

1116
01:12:18,400 --> 01:12:22,160
they just rolled up their sleeves and they got back to work and they were hurting.

1117
01:12:22,160 --> 01:12:26,720
And I could see these men on the stage were hurting, you know, all this time, 80 plus

1118
01:12:26,720 --> 01:12:29,760
years later, I could see it in their eyes.

1119
01:12:29,760 --> 01:12:33,720
And so we kind of closed the door on their ability to actually talk about it.

1120
01:12:33,720 --> 01:12:35,440
And one of my guests did he wrote a book about it.

1121
01:12:35,440 --> 01:12:36,440
He's an amazing guy.

1122
01:12:36,440 --> 01:12:38,480
He would you move there as well.

1123
01:12:38,480 --> 01:12:45,200
But I think where we have an amazing opportunity to open the door a lot wider and you are literally

1124
01:12:45,200 --> 01:12:51,160
a walking example of this is that post traumatic growth conversation that the other side of

1125
01:12:51,160 --> 01:12:56,560
the struggle, you know, using your toolbox, the other side is as a more resilient Joshua,

1126
01:12:56,560 --> 01:13:00,160
a more resilient James, you know, and you look back and go, oh, my God, I can use this

1127
01:13:00,160 --> 01:13:01,160
now.

1128
01:13:01,160 --> 01:13:05,720
I can I can literally be a beacon for other people standing at the side saying, come fruit.

1129
01:13:05,720 --> 01:13:06,880
No, it's worth it.

1130
01:13:06,880 --> 01:13:08,120
I promise you.

1131
01:13:08,120 --> 01:13:12,040
And now that takes away some of that despair because I feel like the PTSD conversation

1132
01:13:12,040 --> 01:13:14,640
kind of got the trouser leg stuck on stigma.

1133
01:13:14,640 --> 01:13:16,160
We've got to smash the stigma.

1134
01:13:16,160 --> 01:13:19,920
It doesn't inspire people's don't smash the stigma, you know.

1135
01:13:19,920 --> 01:13:24,640
So the hope of post traumatic growth, the hope of resilience, the hope of stopping that

1136
01:13:24,640 --> 01:13:31,140
multigenerational trauma that I think needs to be the conversation to get people excited

1137
01:13:31,140 --> 01:13:36,840
about doing the work and being this this better version of themselves.

1138
01:13:36,840 --> 01:13:37,840
Yeah.

1139
01:13:37,840 --> 01:13:44,680
And the thing is, is as I was struggling through the aftercare and I say it wasn't just this

1140
01:13:44,680 --> 01:13:49,200
share, you got those two sessions out, it was a it was a growth.

1141
01:13:49,200 --> 01:13:52,200
You know, there was ups and downs.

1142
01:13:52,200 --> 01:13:57,960
You know, I was on I'll just be frankly honest, I was on some some anti anxiety, anti anxiety

1143
01:13:57,960 --> 01:14:01,880
medications that I'm not on anymore.

1144
01:14:01,880 --> 01:14:03,960
And but it took a while.

1145
01:14:03,960 --> 01:14:12,520
You know, so but as I was in my growth journey, you know, the light bulb, what made me start

1146
01:14:12,520 --> 01:14:21,960
my ministry, what made me start this zeal to to share the love I have for my first responder

1147
01:14:21,960 --> 01:14:28,560
was sitting there working through the grief of one of my friends who committed suicide,

1148
01:14:28,560 --> 01:14:35,440
who was also a first responder, who was a very quiet person, very loved.

1149
01:14:35,440 --> 01:14:36,440
That was the thing.

1150
01:14:36,440 --> 01:14:39,240
Everybody will tell you, these people are very loving people.

1151
01:14:39,240 --> 01:14:40,240
And why would they do this?

1152
01:14:40,240 --> 01:14:41,240
And I knew why.

1153
01:14:41,240 --> 01:14:42,240
Right.

1154
01:14:42,240 --> 01:14:45,520
And I knew that I could answer those questions.

1155
01:14:45,520 --> 01:14:50,840
And so I'm sitting there and I'm struggling, working through just losing that friend, working

1156
01:14:50,840 --> 01:14:51,840
through it.

1157
01:14:51,840 --> 01:14:53,680
It's like there's got to be more.

1158
01:14:53,680 --> 01:14:57,520
And so it just it was like it was like a snowball effect.

1159
01:14:57,520 --> 01:15:02,600
And I was working for a job doing consulting.

1160
01:15:02,600 --> 01:15:06,360
And I was in West Virginia in my hotel room and I call my wife and it's like midnight

1161
01:15:06,360 --> 01:15:07,720
and I didn't look at the time.

1162
01:15:07,720 --> 01:15:09,400
Granted, we have kids three.

1163
01:15:09,400 --> 01:15:10,400
Right.

1164
01:15:10,400 --> 01:15:12,040
So yeah, we had three kids.

1165
01:15:12,040 --> 01:15:17,120
And so, you know, once, you know, an infant, you know, my son, he's six months old.

1166
01:15:17,120 --> 01:15:19,440
And I'm like, I just have this idea.

1167
01:15:19,440 --> 01:15:22,480
And and she's like, do you realize what time it is?

1168
01:15:22,480 --> 01:15:29,680
But when I had that working through my process, working through journaling, you know, journaling

1169
01:15:29,680 --> 01:15:34,640
was a huge step for me, writing down these thoughts, writing up these letters.

1170
01:15:34,640 --> 01:15:41,360
I've written prayers for myself that are just for me and the Lord.

1171
01:15:41,360 --> 01:15:46,000
And so for and this was to help me heal.

1172
01:15:46,000 --> 01:15:52,080
And seeking out that healing and and it's so sorry about my dog.

1173
01:15:52,080 --> 01:15:55,120
You can hear him.

1174
01:15:55,120 --> 01:16:01,240
So so anyway, he he will stop here shortly.

1175
01:16:01,240 --> 01:16:02,840
So so I have this snowball.

1176
01:16:02,840 --> 01:16:06,360
I have this idea pops into my head.

1177
01:16:06,360 --> 01:16:12,160
And we we probably my wife and I discussed it probably for a month.

1178
01:16:12,160 --> 01:16:16,000
And then she looked at me and she goes, it needs to happen.

1179
01:16:16,000 --> 01:16:18,040
It needs to happen.

1180
01:16:18,040 --> 01:16:21,600
And so we start laying it out and I start laying it out on paper and I start as I'm

1181
01:16:21,600 --> 01:16:26,040
working through my healing journey, I start looking at what I can start flushing this

1182
01:16:26,040 --> 01:16:27,600
thing out.

1183
01:16:27,600 --> 01:16:35,240
And so, you know, I look at how can I support chaplains in their their mission, in their

1184
01:16:35,240 --> 01:16:46,080
individual departments, and how can I support these folks and and then, you know, connecting

1185
01:16:46,080 --> 01:16:49,320
these folks to the community in the churches.

1186
01:16:49,320 --> 01:16:55,680
And as I start going through it and I start talking to people who have gone through the

1187
01:16:55,680 --> 01:17:03,480
similar similar story as I, they feel the call to I want to I want to share how I feel.

1188
01:17:03,480 --> 01:17:05,400
I want to share.

1189
01:17:05,400 --> 01:17:11,120
And so, you know, in the 12 steps, you know, we have small groups and we share and we so,

1190
01:17:11,120 --> 01:17:16,960
you know, we started creating a group of us that are responders.

1191
01:17:16,960 --> 01:17:18,480
And it's like, OK, I need to do more.

1192
01:17:18,480 --> 01:17:23,600
So what that fleshed into, there's a team of five of us.

1193
01:17:23,600 --> 01:17:25,120
We are roving chaplains.

1194
01:17:25,120 --> 01:17:27,860
We're trained as chaplains.

1195
01:17:27,860 --> 01:17:29,480
And we go into these departments.

1196
01:17:29,480 --> 01:17:35,240
And the reason why we stay as a nonprofit is we have no allegiance or no ties to any

1197
01:17:35,240 --> 01:17:37,200
one agency.

1198
01:17:37,200 --> 01:17:42,040
We have this anonymity that I knew I blew that word, but we'll go forward.

1199
01:17:42,040 --> 01:17:47,720
We're anonymous in the sense that, you know, we don't report to anybody but ourselves

1200
01:17:47,720 --> 01:17:50,000
and in our church that helps us.

1201
01:17:50,000 --> 01:17:55,520
And so we can get in there and we go about every Wednesday and we pick a few stations

1202
01:17:55,520 --> 01:18:01,120
and we kind of popcorn around the county and the cities and we just kind of walk in, spend

1203
01:18:01,120 --> 01:18:05,800
a day walking in and say, hey, guys, how are you doing?

1204
01:18:05,800 --> 01:18:06,800
Developing those relationships.

1205
01:18:06,800 --> 01:18:07,800
All right.

1206
01:18:07,800 --> 01:18:11,880
So we're we're we're not just meeting somebody and say, hey, we're here to pray for you.

1207
01:18:11,880 --> 01:18:13,960
Here's Jesus.

1208
01:18:13,960 --> 01:18:17,960
But we're meeting we're meeting somebody and we're getting to know who they are, getting

1209
01:18:17,960 --> 01:18:20,880
to know their family, their life dynamic.

1210
01:18:20,880 --> 01:18:26,000
When I started this during COVID, when I say we really launched this thing because COVID

1211
01:18:26,000 --> 01:18:29,320
happened, it was like, bam, there's a whole different service.

1212
01:18:29,320 --> 01:18:32,160
EMS, fire, police, it all changed overnight.

1213
01:18:32,160 --> 01:18:33,160
Right.

1214
01:18:33,160 --> 01:18:35,680
And I was still working a little bit of part time then.

1215
01:18:35,680 --> 01:18:36,800
And so they were calling me up.

1216
01:18:36,800 --> 01:18:37,800
Can you work?

1217
01:18:37,800 --> 01:18:39,880
And I'm like, I don't want to work and bring this on my kids.

1218
01:18:39,880 --> 01:18:41,640
It was crazy.

1219
01:18:41,640 --> 01:18:43,480
But I know we still did it.

1220
01:18:43,480 --> 01:18:46,920
We had a shortage of EMS workers.

1221
01:18:46,920 --> 01:18:53,800
But so isolation was really creeping into the services.

1222
01:18:53,800 --> 01:18:58,960
And so when we were going in and just getting to know someone, I just walked into a random

1223
01:18:58,960 --> 01:19:02,280
station one day and the guy says, I'm here to pray with you.

1224
01:19:02,280 --> 01:19:03,280
I'm a chaplain.

1225
01:19:03,280 --> 01:19:04,720
This is the agency I work for.

1226
01:19:04,720 --> 01:19:06,480
And I start talking to the guy.

1227
01:19:06,480 --> 01:19:11,480
And before I leave, he walks me out to the parking lot and he's he's in tears.

1228
01:19:11,480 --> 01:19:14,280
And he said, my life, my wife left me today.

1229
01:19:14,280 --> 01:19:19,680
And I was like, oh, man, you know, and so we're sitting there in the parking lot, one

1230
01:19:19,680 --> 01:19:20,680
on one.

1231
01:19:20,680 --> 01:19:26,000
I'm using all that chaplaincy training that I've I've I've taken to help.

1232
01:19:26,000 --> 01:19:27,360
It's psychological first aid.

1233
01:19:27,360 --> 01:19:32,680
I am not there at the clinician level, but I'm there at the psychological first aid to

1234
01:19:32,680 --> 01:19:38,160
help help the bleeding stop and get them to the much higher care, just like in EMS.

1235
01:19:38,160 --> 01:19:40,000
We're not we're not the doctors.

1236
01:19:40,000 --> 01:19:42,440
We're there to get them to the much higher care in the cycle.

1237
01:19:42,440 --> 01:19:44,720
So in the system.

1238
01:19:44,720 --> 01:19:50,040
So I'm sitting there and he felt comfortable enough to share to me, just like I felt comfortable

1239
01:19:50,040 --> 01:19:54,720
enough to share to that outsider, that therapist I never met for the first time.

1240
01:19:54,720 --> 01:19:58,280
And so that's kind of what we do is develop those relationships when we go in with them

1241
01:19:58,280 --> 01:20:00,560
and talk with them.

1242
01:20:00,560 --> 01:20:04,080
And and just just just love up on them.

1243
01:20:04,080 --> 01:20:05,200
And I say, love up on them.

1244
01:20:05,200 --> 01:20:06,960
Just listen.

1245
01:20:06,960 --> 01:20:10,440
Just be there to listen when the opportunity arises.

1246
01:20:10,440 --> 01:20:13,880
Be there to, hey, here's a card with my number on it.

1247
01:20:13,880 --> 01:20:20,760
Here's my number, you know, and and and and and just try to, you know, be that extra tool

1248
01:20:20,760 --> 01:20:23,880
for the chaplain in that agency.

1249
01:20:23,880 --> 01:20:28,040
Because let's face it, I had a chaplain in my own department.

1250
01:20:28,040 --> 01:20:31,960
Did anyone feel comfortable sitting in front of the chaplain's office waiting?

1251
01:20:31,960 --> 01:20:34,440
You know, no, you're being looked at.

1252
01:20:34,440 --> 01:20:35,440
It doesn't matter.

1253
01:20:35,440 --> 01:20:39,640
It seems like they put the chaplain's office right there near all the supervision office.

1254
01:20:39,640 --> 01:20:40,640
Right.

1255
01:20:40,640 --> 01:20:41,840
It's not somewhere else where you know.

1256
01:20:41,840 --> 01:20:47,040
And so so it's it's sometimes not a comfortable thing to talk about.

1257
01:20:47,040 --> 01:20:48,640
We're working on it.

1258
01:20:48,640 --> 01:20:54,600
I am blessed to have one of my former agencies I worked for, one of my supervisors, best

1259
01:20:54,600 --> 01:20:55,600
friends and colleague.

1260
01:20:55,600 --> 01:20:56,600
He's running the department.

1261
01:20:56,600 --> 01:20:59,360
He's running the county EMF agency.

1262
01:20:59,360 --> 01:21:01,400
And so that's something that we get to call.

1263
01:21:01,400 --> 01:21:03,840
So I have a relationship with them going back.

1264
01:21:03,840 --> 01:21:10,160
We're bringing mental health as a component to how they operate and using every tool in

1265
01:21:10,160 --> 01:21:12,720
their toolbox and using our agency.

1266
01:21:12,720 --> 01:21:17,800
And, you know, like I said, we're just being there, being able to provide that psychological

1267
01:21:17,800 --> 01:21:25,320
first aid, providing prayer, providing mentor support.

1268
01:21:25,320 --> 01:21:27,560
And and then we do things occasionally.

1269
01:21:27,560 --> 01:21:28,840
We do we every Christmas.

1270
01:21:28,840 --> 01:21:34,240
We it's it's when you calculate all our shares, fire, police, CMS and dispatchers.

1271
01:21:34,240 --> 01:21:35,320
That's another thing.

1272
01:21:35,320 --> 01:21:37,200
We don't make sure that they are forgotten.

1273
01:21:37,200 --> 01:21:40,000
A lot of times our dispatchers are forgotten.

1274
01:21:40,000 --> 01:21:45,160
If you look at our logo, we have 911 in our logo because they're the person sitting at

1275
01:21:45,160 --> 01:21:49,760
the phone with the one that has the least amount of closure.

1276
01:21:49,760 --> 01:21:53,680
They hear all of it coming through the radio on the phone and they get no closure.

1277
01:21:53,680 --> 01:21:56,520
And so we we we make sure we love up on them.

1278
01:21:56,520 --> 01:22:00,140
And so what we do is about 450 gifts.

1279
01:22:00,140 --> 01:22:02,720
We do like Christmas cookies, the card.

1280
01:22:02,720 --> 01:22:08,280
We get the kids in the local churches to do Christmas cards and we go out and we share

1281
01:22:08,280 --> 01:22:12,360
Christmas with everybody, all three shifts right before Christmas.

1282
01:22:12,360 --> 01:22:16,520
Because, you know, as well as I do, the holidays are sometimes the toughest.

1283
01:22:16,520 --> 01:22:23,980
And so we just try to look for every opportunity we can to to to to love those, to serve those

1284
01:22:23,980 --> 01:22:26,320
who serve others is our tagline.

1285
01:22:26,320 --> 01:22:27,320
And that's what we're doing.

1286
01:22:27,320 --> 01:22:29,640
We're serving those who serve us.

1287
01:22:29,640 --> 01:22:31,680
We're giving them a thank you.

1288
01:22:31,680 --> 01:22:33,720
We're giving them love.

1289
01:22:33,720 --> 01:22:41,200
And and so, you know, the why I put Lifeline in the name, you know, my search and rescue

1290
01:22:41,200 --> 01:22:42,880
training.

1291
01:22:42,880 --> 01:22:45,920
You remember there's that one line, you don't touch that one line.

1292
01:22:45,920 --> 01:22:47,280
That's your line of life.

1293
01:22:47,280 --> 01:22:48,280
Right.

1294
01:22:48,280 --> 01:22:51,200
Any type of rescue that that one line you don't ever touch.

1295
01:22:51,200 --> 01:22:57,880
And so I kind of use that in the in the in the logo and in our in our name is because

1296
01:22:57,880 --> 01:22:59,240
we are a lifeline.

1297
01:22:59,240 --> 01:23:01,240
We want to be that lifeline.

1298
01:23:01,240 --> 01:23:04,080
We want to be that tool.

1299
01:23:04,080 --> 01:23:10,520
And and it's it's it's my hope that if it's just one person that we're able to like help,

1300
01:23:10,520 --> 01:23:13,640
then that's one one more.

1301
01:23:13,640 --> 01:23:18,240
You know, that's just, you know, just keep adding the wins.

1302
01:23:18,240 --> 01:23:21,760
And and then, you know, I'm trying to find people like minded.

1303
01:23:21,760 --> 01:23:23,520
I started out with myself.

1304
01:23:23,520 --> 01:23:25,240
I now have a team of retired.

1305
01:23:25,240 --> 01:23:29,680
I've got a guy retired, D.A. I've got a guy who's retired fire, you know, and they're

1306
01:23:29,680 --> 01:23:32,000
healing as their training.

1307
01:23:32,000 --> 01:23:34,280
They're working on their healing.

1308
01:23:34,280 --> 01:23:36,040
It's not an end of my healing.

1309
01:23:36,040 --> 01:23:37,280
This is just adding on.

1310
01:23:37,280 --> 01:23:38,660
This is a supplemental.

1311
01:23:38,660 --> 01:23:43,040
We talked offline about I'm in the middle of a chaplaincy training course and we're

1312
01:23:43,040 --> 01:23:47,000
talking about grief and we're talking about and I just I'm over there in the corner and

1313
01:23:47,000 --> 01:23:49,240
I start crying and the instructor's like, we good.

1314
01:23:49,240 --> 01:23:51,720
I'm like, yep, working through the problem.

1315
01:23:51,720 --> 01:23:52,720
Right.

1316
01:23:52,720 --> 01:23:56,920
And and but that's, you know, that's that's part of my healing.

1317
01:23:56,920 --> 01:23:57,920
This is part of my journey.

1318
01:23:57,920 --> 01:24:01,880
This is part of the guys who's on my team's journey and many more people that we want

1319
01:24:01,880 --> 01:24:03,040
to add.

1320
01:24:03,040 --> 01:24:05,360
But anyway, that's, you know, it's part of the process.

1321
01:24:05,360 --> 01:24:09,920
Well, I'm glad you mentioned dispatch as well, because, I mean, they are the kind of forgotten

1322
01:24:09,920 --> 01:24:14,640
link of the chain and, you know, people also forget that they a lot of times are working

1323
01:24:14,640 --> 01:24:20,000
a 12 hour shift, so they go in when it's dark, they leave when it's dark in a dark room.

1324
01:24:20,000 --> 01:24:22,040
They have these stress responses.

1325
01:24:22,040 --> 01:24:26,940
But unlike us, when we're having them maneuver patients and stretchers or, you know, operate

1326
01:24:26,940 --> 01:24:30,320
an extrication or a structure fire, there's that physical offload.

1327
01:24:30,320 --> 01:24:31,720
Well, they don't have that.

1328
01:24:31,720 --> 01:24:35,280
And then as you said, they don't get the conclusion of the of the call either.

1329
01:24:35,280 --> 01:24:41,280
So they're an extremely important group that, you know, we need to keep talking about.

1330
01:24:41,280 --> 01:24:46,160
With that all being said, you know, you've you've had this incredible journey yourself,

1331
01:24:46,160 --> 01:24:50,200
this journey of healing, the creation of lifeline ministries.

1332
01:24:50,200 --> 01:24:52,760
Talk to me then about Hurricane Helene.

1333
01:24:52,760 --> 01:24:55,980
We were sitting in Florida and again, early on, we thought we were the ones that are going

1334
01:24:55,980 --> 01:24:56,980
to get smashed.

1335
01:24:56,980 --> 01:25:00,140
It ended up literally skimming where I live.

1336
01:25:00,140 --> 01:25:03,120
So we got some some gusty winds, but that was about it.

1337
01:25:03,120 --> 01:25:08,520
But then it goes north and hits your community and obviously a kind of topography that isn't

1338
01:25:08,520 --> 01:25:10,960
used to hurricanes in the first place.

1339
01:25:10,960 --> 01:25:14,800
So walk me through the actual hurricane and your experience of it.

1340
01:25:14,800 --> 01:25:19,960
And then let's talk about the the people affected and the people responding.

1341
01:25:19,960 --> 01:25:22,000
Sure.

1342
01:25:22,000 --> 01:25:36,360
So so to just kind of go into a so this hurricane, which was bigger than Katrina and, you know,

1343
01:25:36,360 --> 01:25:40,960
hurricanes in southern Appalachia never really affected us.

1344
01:25:40,960 --> 01:25:47,160
I mean, our mountains protect us so much so that they either go very, very far left into

1345
01:25:47,160 --> 01:25:52,920
Nashville, Memphis, which is a much lower topography, or they go to the far right into

1346
01:25:52,920 --> 01:25:53,920
the coast of Carolina.

1347
01:25:53,920 --> 01:25:58,920
As the mountains kind of diverted one way or the other, east or west.

1348
01:25:58,920 --> 01:26:03,360
This hurricane and here's here's going back to the Navy days.

1349
01:26:03,360 --> 01:26:04,640
My granddad taught me weather.

1350
01:26:04,640 --> 01:26:06,360
I learned weather in the Forest Service.

1351
01:26:06,360 --> 01:26:09,000
I'm fascinated with weather.

1352
01:26:09,000 --> 01:26:14,040
So I'm watching this and I'm tracking this and it went straight up the Appalachians straight

1353
01:26:14,040 --> 01:26:18,560
up that that corridor that never gets hit with anything like this.

1354
01:26:18,560 --> 01:26:20,780
And so we got anywhere.

1355
01:26:20,780 --> 01:26:24,760
So we had a weather system before this that went on for four days.

1356
01:26:24,760 --> 01:26:32,140
So most of our rivers, most of our streams were already at a flood stage capacity.

1357
01:26:32,140 --> 01:26:35,680
They were already at that, hey, we really shouldn't take too much rain here.

1358
01:26:35,680 --> 01:26:37,520
You know, they were full.

1359
01:26:37,520 --> 01:26:39,760
There was nowhere else for the water to go.

1360
01:26:39,760 --> 01:26:44,680
Then pops up this hurricane that dumped most of its moisture in the Appalachians, South

1361
01:26:44,680 --> 01:26:50,280
Carolina, North Carolina, Atlanta even flooded parts of it.

1362
01:26:50,280 --> 01:26:54,960
Atlanta is never that I can recall flooded as bad as they flooded.

1363
01:26:54,960 --> 01:27:00,400
But so all this rain gets dumped and it gets dumped in the mountains and else all got to

1364
01:27:00,400 --> 01:27:02,800
trickle down.

1365
01:27:02,800 --> 01:27:09,800
So I've heard estimates of anywhere from 30 to 48 inches of rain in three days.

1366
01:27:09,800 --> 01:27:16,600
When we we don't ever get but maybe 20 inches of rainfall a year, 30 if it's a very wet

1367
01:27:16,600 --> 01:27:18,920
year or so.

1368
01:27:18,920 --> 01:27:20,640
So we're already full.

1369
01:27:20,640 --> 01:27:24,040
We've already had our peak rainfall for the year.

1370
01:27:24,040 --> 01:27:30,920
Most of these areas were, I mean, there were streams were very full and then you get more

1371
01:27:30,920 --> 01:27:33,120
rain on top of that.

1372
01:27:33,120 --> 01:27:37,880
You get the mudslides because the rain, the water's got to go somewhere.

1373
01:27:37,880 --> 01:27:39,760
The soil is already saturated.

1374
01:27:39,760 --> 01:27:44,580
So it's a combination of flash flooding, mudslides mixed with slurry water.

1375
01:27:44,580 --> 01:27:50,440
And it's just like a tsunami effect in some of these mountain communities.

1376
01:27:50,440 --> 01:27:55,800
So and we got wind, 115 mile an hour winds.

1377
01:27:55,800 --> 01:28:00,160
We never get 115 mile an hour winds in the mountains around here.

1378
01:28:00,160 --> 01:28:02,440
So that's the biggest thing.

1379
01:28:02,440 --> 01:28:10,240
I've worked a hurricane for Tennessee Task Force within cooperation of FEMA down in Destin.

1380
01:28:10,240 --> 01:28:12,960
That was just a mop up operation.

1381
01:28:12,960 --> 01:28:18,660
And you see trees and power poles and just snaps and half like you don't see that in

1382
01:28:18,660 --> 01:28:22,760
any storm up here in the Appalachians.

1383
01:28:22,760 --> 01:28:26,480
And so we got a combination of all that.

1384
01:28:26,480 --> 01:28:32,200
And people don't realize is that it wasn't the actual Friday event that really triggered

1385
01:28:32,200 --> 01:28:33,200
it.

1386
01:28:33,200 --> 01:28:35,880
It was when so it comes and it came fast.

1387
01:28:35,880 --> 01:28:36,880
It didn't sit.

1388
01:28:36,880 --> 01:28:37,880
It didn't get it.

1389
01:28:37,880 --> 01:28:40,720
It just came and it dumped all at once.

1390
01:28:40,720 --> 01:28:44,520
And so a lot of times when the hurricanes come in and tropical storms, they come up

1391
01:28:44,520 --> 01:28:45,960
here, they sit for a while.

1392
01:28:45,960 --> 01:28:47,360
They slowly dump rain.

1393
01:28:47,360 --> 01:28:49,720
This dumped rain all at once.

1394
01:28:49,720 --> 01:28:56,720
So and when the weather stopped and it started going more towards Memphis and Nashville and

1395
01:28:56,720 --> 01:29:01,600
then it kind of did its thing and went back into the jet stream.

1396
01:29:01,600 --> 01:29:03,640
That's when the trouble began.

1397
01:29:03,640 --> 01:29:09,640
That's when all that water had to go somewhere and it was like it just broke and it broke

1398
01:29:09,640 --> 01:29:10,640
in a.

1399
01:29:10,640 --> 01:29:19,320
You know, in Northeast Tennessee alone, we had five counties affected and then 20 some

1400
01:29:19,320 --> 01:29:21,080
counties in Western Carolina.

1401
01:29:21,080 --> 01:29:24,820
They got hugely impacted.

1402
01:29:24,820 --> 01:29:29,840
And you're talking about people you're living at 3000 feet elevation.

1403
01:29:29,840 --> 01:29:32,520
There's no stream or creek in sight.

1404
01:29:32,520 --> 01:29:36,440
You would not even think your house is going to be washed away with water.

1405
01:29:36,440 --> 01:29:38,520
And that's what happened here.

1406
01:29:38,520 --> 01:29:44,160
Whole communities, churches, cities, towns just gone.

1407
01:29:44,160 --> 01:29:49,400
I think what's so unfair is, you know, and again, this isn't like the majority voice,

1408
01:29:49,400 --> 01:29:51,600
but then you hear people, oh, they should have.

1409
01:29:51,600 --> 01:29:53,280
They should have been prepared, blah, blah, blah.

1410
01:29:53,280 --> 01:29:57,440
But like you said, this when it's an event that you are not expecting, like the tsunami

1411
01:29:57,440 --> 01:30:02,080
on the Thai beach, you know, no one realized that the regression of the ocean was going

1412
01:30:02,080 --> 01:30:07,040
to be followed by a tidal wave that would flood miles inland and take hundreds and hundreds

1413
01:30:07,040 --> 01:30:08,040
of lives.

1414
01:30:08,040 --> 01:30:14,520
So I think it's so I don't know why people feel compelled to say that rather than just

1415
01:30:14,520 --> 01:30:17,440
have empathy and compassion and be like, that is horrendous.

1416
01:30:17,440 --> 01:30:19,400
How can we be part of the solution?

1417
01:30:19,400 --> 01:30:20,400
Yeah.

1418
01:30:20,400 --> 01:30:24,480
So, yeah, I've seen a lot of that.

1419
01:30:24,480 --> 01:30:29,960
As you start seeing social media posts, you would see people say, well, why didn't you

1420
01:30:29,960 --> 01:30:30,960
evacuate?

1421
01:30:30,960 --> 01:30:35,840
Well, where, you know, some of these people, this is it.

1422
01:30:35,840 --> 01:30:38,080
This is I mean, you don't have anywhere else to go.

1423
01:30:38,080 --> 01:30:43,480
You can't go far, you know, any farther than three, four thousand foot elevation.

1424
01:30:43,480 --> 01:30:52,280
So what I saw the after effect, the aftermath, the after effect of this is that I saw whole

1425
01:30:52,280 --> 01:30:58,720
communities that had been decimated, but they still came together and they still took a

1426
01:30:58,720 --> 01:31:00,060
head count.

1427
01:31:00,060 --> 01:31:08,940
I saw pastors become incident command, incident commanders, and then start basically in a

1428
01:31:08,940 --> 01:31:14,160
crude way of creating an incident command structure.

1429
01:31:14,160 --> 01:31:17,960
I saw fire departments, volunteer fire departments do the same thing.

1430
01:31:17,960 --> 01:31:19,600
Of course, they're trained in this.

1431
01:31:19,600 --> 01:31:26,040
But at that moment in time, they were cut off from the help or the county.

1432
01:31:26,040 --> 01:31:28,120
We had we still have counties.

1433
01:31:28,120 --> 01:31:32,960
Here is almost a month to the day and we still have counties that are cut off from parts

1434
01:31:32,960 --> 01:31:34,140
of itself.

1435
01:31:34,140 --> 01:31:37,220
There's no bridges in, there's no waters in, there's no roads.

1436
01:31:37,220 --> 01:31:42,320
They just today got a makeshift road into chimney rock.

1437
01:31:42,320 --> 01:31:46,920
And it's been today was the first day they got, hey, we got a road open, but it's only

1438
01:31:46,920 --> 01:31:49,840
open to ATVs and construction vehicles.

1439
01:31:49,840 --> 01:31:53,120
I've climbed chimney rock before, so I know exactly what you're talking about.

1440
01:31:53,120 --> 01:32:00,800
It's a gorgeous, gorgeous area of North Carolina in Asheville, outside of Asheville.

1441
01:32:00,800 --> 01:32:08,960
So I saw these communities just come together and do what they have to do to survive.

1442
01:32:08,960 --> 01:32:12,200
And I saw communities who weren't affected.

1443
01:32:12,200 --> 01:32:17,880
So our area, we got wind, we were out of power for 48 hours and it was like nothing happened

1444
01:32:17,880 --> 01:32:18,880
here.

1445
01:32:18,880 --> 01:32:24,120
It was the, for whatever reason, we didn't get it.

1446
01:32:24,120 --> 01:32:30,640
And so I saw a lot of churches, a lot of people, you know, with my ministry, I put the cry

1447
01:32:30,640 --> 01:32:38,440
out on online, hey, Mitchell County, North Carolina is the poorest county and smallest

1448
01:32:38,440 --> 01:32:40,360
county in North Carolina.

1449
01:32:40,360 --> 01:32:44,320
It has the smallest amount of resources.

1450
01:32:44,320 --> 01:32:50,160
And the volunteer fire department and the EMS of like, they have two ambulances and

1451
01:32:50,160 --> 01:32:52,960
they're lucky if, you know, that all two are working, right?

1452
01:32:52,960 --> 01:32:55,280
I mean, it's just this very small town.

1453
01:32:55,280 --> 01:32:59,040
So on the backside of Rhone Mountain, it's up at high elevation.

1454
01:32:59,040 --> 01:33:04,900
When we finally were able to get in there five days, six days later, because that's

1455
01:33:04,900 --> 01:33:06,640
how bad it was hit.

1456
01:33:06,640 --> 01:33:10,960
The winds, that 115 mile an hour winds took the whole mountain side of Iron Mountain and

1457
01:33:10,960 --> 01:33:12,360
just snapped every tree and laid it down.

1458
01:33:12,360 --> 01:33:15,880
I'm talking about trees as big as buses.

1459
01:33:15,880 --> 01:33:19,760
So we were able to get in there and it was very sketchy and getting in there.

1460
01:33:19,760 --> 01:33:26,680
And I just made a plea out like, hey, we need to get in here and see what we can do.

1461
01:33:26,680 --> 01:33:29,280
And so, you know, I had people call me up, hey, what do you need?

1462
01:33:29,280 --> 01:33:34,800
And so we loaded a truck up and we took chainsaws to work and we just started heading in that

1463
01:33:34,800 --> 01:33:35,800
path.

1464
01:33:35,800 --> 01:33:36,800
Here's our goal.

1465
01:33:36,800 --> 01:33:43,280
We're going to go to the incident command post in Mitchell County and see what we can

1466
01:33:43,280 --> 01:33:44,280
do to help them.

1467
01:33:44,280 --> 01:33:48,680
Because all we could get out at that moment, because they had no power, no water, no communication

1468
01:33:48,680 --> 01:33:50,120
to outside world, no communication.

1469
01:33:50,120 --> 01:33:52,680
The only thing they were communicating was ham radio.

1470
01:33:52,680 --> 01:33:55,160
So we're getting very little out.

1471
01:33:55,160 --> 01:33:57,200
And Tennessee side was the only side open.

1472
01:33:57,200 --> 01:33:58,240
That was another thing, too.

1473
01:33:58,240 --> 01:34:03,520
They were cut off from their own state and no bridges, no access of getting their own

1474
01:34:03,520 --> 01:34:06,080
state help and resources.

1475
01:34:06,080 --> 01:34:08,400
And the helicopters weren't flying yet.

1476
01:34:08,400 --> 01:34:11,760
It was still very early on in the rescue efforts.

1477
01:34:11,760 --> 01:34:15,840
And so we were able to get boots on the ground as a ministry because we don't, I mean, we

1478
01:34:15,840 --> 01:34:20,760
weren't answering to anybody but ourselves and just walk in and ask the question, what

1479
01:34:20,760 --> 01:34:22,440
do you need?

1480
01:34:22,440 --> 01:34:27,520
And then getting up to a point where we can communicate and calling it out and say, OK,

1481
01:34:27,520 --> 01:34:28,520
this is what we need.

1482
01:34:28,520 --> 01:34:34,240
And it was our local hometown churches, our local community members, our local businesses.

1483
01:34:34,240 --> 01:34:36,640
Hey, I want to need a thousand more mills.

1484
01:34:36,640 --> 01:34:37,640
Check.

1485
01:34:37,640 --> 01:34:38,640
I'm going to need generators.

1486
01:34:38,640 --> 01:34:39,640
Check.

1487
01:34:39,640 --> 01:34:41,200
And it just started all flooding in.

1488
01:34:41,200 --> 01:34:47,200
And it was just people who were not affected helping people who were affected.

1489
01:34:47,200 --> 01:34:52,440
And it's been going like that for the last, you know, since this thing started.

1490
01:34:52,440 --> 01:34:54,280
And we're starting to wind down.

1491
01:34:54,280 --> 01:34:59,040
And I said, we're starting to wind down in a material sense, but we still have gutted

1492
01:34:59,040 --> 01:35:00,040
houses.

1493
01:35:00,040 --> 01:35:01,040
We still have a lot to do.

1494
01:35:01,040 --> 01:35:02,920
We still have houses that are gone.

1495
01:35:02,920 --> 01:35:07,720
But the actual life and death situation is starting to calm down.

1496
01:35:07,720 --> 01:35:12,000
And it's now more of how do we help rebuild these communities?

1497
01:35:12,000 --> 01:35:14,440
But it was people helping people in this region.

1498
01:35:14,440 --> 01:35:17,040
And everybody's like, well, where's FEMA?

1499
01:35:17,040 --> 01:35:18,040
Where's the state?

1500
01:35:18,040 --> 01:35:24,000
It was some places impossible to get into.

1501
01:35:24,000 --> 01:35:25,720
And so it's a triage situation.

1502
01:35:25,720 --> 01:35:32,880
How do you triage a nation when three of your states were hit so hard, so fast and so quick?

1503
01:35:32,880 --> 01:35:39,560
I mean, you couldn't put boots on the ground fast enough and still do any good in these

1504
01:35:39,560 --> 01:35:40,560
areas.

1505
01:35:40,560 --> 01:35:44,880
I mean, you almost had to wait for the floodwaters to recede before you could go in and act in

1506
01:35:44,880 --> 01:35:45,880
some of these regions.

1507
01:35:45,880 --> 01:35:49,760
And like I said, I've seen areas with no creeks, no streams, nothing.

1508
01:35:49,760 --> 01:35:53,920
And it's just a wall of water came in and took them out.

1509
01:35:53,920 --> 01:35:59,280
Speaking of the FEMA conversation, obviously, there's been times in history where the teams

1510
01:35:59,280 --> 01:36:05,080
in the organization has been stellar and other times where, obviously, failings were evident.

1511
01:36:05,080 --> 01:36:08,640
And hopefully, they learned and grew from that.

1512
01:36:08,640 --> 01:36:10,760
What was interesting is when you reached out.

1513
01:36:10,760 --> 01:36:14,840
And I love the fact that the origin story of this relationship now is a dark side project,

1514
01:36:14,840 --> 01:36:16,920
which is something I put out eight years ago.

1515
01:36:16,920 --> 01:36:19,200
It's a standalone thing now.

1516
01:36:19,200 --> 01:36:27,840
But talk to me about the polarization of the reporting versus actually the middle ground

1517
01:36:27,840 --> 01:36:28,840
storytelling.

1518
01:36:28,840 --> 01:36:31,960
I see this so, so often, even in my questioning to the military.

1519
01:36:31,960 --> 01:36:36,040
It's either, you know, let God kill them all, let God sort them out, or they're all baby

1520
01:36:36,040 --> 01:36:37,040
killers.

1521
01:36:37,040 --> 01:36:40,720
And in the middle is our men and women who do amazing things, you know, sometimes not

1522
01:36:40,720 --> 01:36:43,680
amazing things, but in the middle is the human conversation.

1523
01:36:43,680 --> 01:36:49,400
So what have you been up against as far as simply reporting what is going on there?

1524
01:36:49,400 --> 01:36:55,720
So without getting, I think you and I talked offline about, you know, going down rabbit

1525
01:36:55,720 --> 01:37:02,000
holes and conversations, political, apolitical, whatever.

1526
01:37:02,000 --> 01:37:09,440
The numbers of who's actually perished is not really, if you notice the ticker, the

1527
01:37:09,440 --> 01:37:11,400
ticker has gone away from the news.

1528
01:37:11,400 --> 01:37:14,640
The news has moved on to something else shiny.

1529
01:37:14,640 --> 01:37:19,480
And it's now the election, really, and everything else going on in the world.

1530
01:37:19,480 --> 01:37:26,880
So the world is left off with, okay, well, only 200 people have perished.

1531
01:37:26,880 --> 01:37:27,880
And they're not reporting on it.

1532
01:37:27,880 --> 01:37:30,920
So it must be everything's fine.

1533
01:37:30,920 --> 01:37:32,920
I've had conversations with people in Kansas City.

1534
01:37:32,920 --> 01:37:39,240
I've had conversations with people, you know, other parts of the U.S. and they don't get

1535
01:37:39,240 --> 01:37:41,120
why we're still calling for help.

1536
01:37:41,120 --> 01:37:44,240
And I'm like, well, it's a different call for help.

1537
01:37:44,240 --> 01:37:48,480
We've switched what resources we need, but it's a different call for help.

1538
01:37:48,480 --> 01:37:53,440
You know, some of the people, when I put boots on the ground and this ministry kind of took

1539
01:37:53,440 --> 01:38:01,400
a new turn very fast, very quickly trying to help in our backyard.

1540
01:38:01,400 --> 01:38:11,600
And so my access to some of these guys who were, I guess, first in line, right, the first

1541
01:38:11,600 --> 01:38:16,320
out the door and listening to their stories.

1542
01:38:16,320 --> 01:38:19,080
There's people on the missing list that we know where they're at.

1543
01:38:19,080 --> 01:38:21,840
They just haven't been identified.

1544
01:38:21,840 --> 01:38:27,120
And for whatever reasonings that each state has, they're not being added to those totals.

1545
01:38:27,120 --> 01:38:32,200
So I think the general public sees it as, oh, in all these states, only 200 people perished.

1546
01:38:32,200 --> 01:38:35,360
There's still 5000 people missing in Western Carolina.

1547
01:38:35,360 --> 01:38:39,800
We still have 50 people missing technically here in East Tennessee.

1548
01:38:39,800 --> 01:38:41,200
Some of these people, we know where they're at.

1549
01:38:41,200 --> 01:38:48,080
Some of these people, when the flood waters, I did one swift water rescue class and said,

1550
01:38:48,080 --> 01:38:50,640
no, not for me.

1551
01:38:50,640 --> 01:38:52,320
I'll stay on dry ground.

1552
01:38:52,320 --> 01:38:53,480
Thank you.

1553
01:38:53,480 --> 01:38:55,640
So I knew what my expertise was.

1554
01:38:55,640 --> 01:39:02,920
And so in your wet water rescue training, you know, these rivers are so churning and

1555
01:39:02,920 --> 01:39:05,280
turning that it's like a meat grinder.

1556
01:39:05,280 --> 01:39:10,440
So even if you have a person that gets in that river, we might not ever find that person,

1557
01:39:10,440 --> 01:39:11,440
right?

1558
01:39:11,440 --> 01:39:15,920
Or we might find some of them later on in the rescue and recovery efforts.

1559
01:39:15,920 --> 01:39:21,680
So talking to those guys on the ground who've actually picked the bodies up out of the river,

1560
01:39:21,680 --> 01:39:26,440
they're frustrated because they're like, listen, I look at the ticker on the news and I see

1561
01:39:26,440 --> 01:39:29,960
only 200 whole event wide.

1562
01:39:29,960 --> 01:39:33,760
And it's like, we know we just picked up 50 bodies yesterday, right?

1563
01:39:33,760 --> 01:39:38,360
But we can't identify them yet until we, you know, DNA or whatever the protocol is in that

1564
01:39:38,360 --> 01:39:39,520
state.

1565
01:39:39,520 --> 01:39:45,880
And so because it's not being reported, it kind of gives us false sense of everything

1566
01:39:45,880 --> 01:39:50,760
must be okay or back to normal here because we haven't seen that gone up yet.

1567
01:39:50,760 --> 01:39:53,160
And that's not true.

1568
01:39:53,160 --> 01:40:04,360
And in a mental health cell, mental health area, and what we are seeing is that these

1569
01:40:04,360 --> 01:40:10,160
guys who've picked up those 50 bodies, they're like, I'm trying to tell people what I just

1570
01:40:10,160 --> 01:40:12,840
did and no one believes me.

1571
01:40:12,840 --> 01:40:13,840
And I believe them.

1572
01:40:13,840 --> 01:40:15,840
I mean, I believe them.

1573
01:40:15,840 --> 01:40:22,600
And not only do I believe them, I've been to some of the morgue facilities because you're

1574
01:40:22,600 --> 01:40:28,280
asking people to help out in these rescues that are, this is not their normal job.

1575
01:40:28,280 --> 01:40:36,400
You know, in one of the counties, the logistics coordinator for the emergency operations center,

1576
01:40:36,400 --> 01:40:42,080
the lady in charge of logistics was a realtor who had some training with her local rescue

1577
01:40:42,080 --> 01:40:43,080
squad.

1578
01:40:43,080 --> 01:40:46,680
So you have people, this is not their everyday job function.

1579
01:40:46,680 --> 01:40:50,660
And so they put their personal life on hold to work on this rescue.

1580
01:40:50,660 --> 01:40:56,200
And you've got those people that are doing the coroner side of things who are just lay

1581
01:40:56,200 --> 01:40:57,840
people, they're lay persons.

1582
01:40:57,840 --> 01:41:01,320
They're just people that want to help.

1583
01:41:01,320 --> 01:41:03,720
And if they're asked, hey, can you help the coroner?

1584
01:41:03,720 --> 01:41:04,720
And they don't know what that entails.

1585
01:41:04,720 --> 01:41:05,720
Sure.

1586
01:41:05,720 --> 01:41:06,720
All right.

1587
01:41:06,720 --> 01:41:07,720
I want to help.

1588
01:41:07,720 --> 01:41:11,240
And so I've counseled some of those folks here in the last couple of weeks who I'm glad

1589
01:41:11,240 --> 01:41:15,040
that we were able to talk to them because that's part of the first step in healing is

1590
01:41:15,040 --> 01:41:16,520
tell me your story.

1591
01:41:16,520 --> 01:41:19,240
You know, tell me what's going on.

1592
01:41:19,240 --> 01:41:24,000
And so they're feeling frustrated because if they talk to somebody that lives in, I'm

1593
01:41:24,000 --> 01:41:27,760
mentioning Kansas because that was the conversation I had with somebody I know there.

1594
01:41:27,760 --> 01:41:31,720
But like, you know, somewhere on another part of the world, if you have that conversation,

1595
01:41:31,720 --> 01:41:35,320
they're like, well, on the news, it said, you know, 200 people perished.

1596
01:41:35,320 --> 01:41:38,120
I guess that's bad, but I guess it's OK.

1597
01:41:38,120 --> 01:41:41,560
It's like, no, it's much bigger.

1598
01:41:41,560 --> 01:41:42,560
It's much bigger.

1599
01:41:42,560 --> 01:41:47,440
And the destruction, I just don't know how much is getting out on social media.

1600
01:41:47,440 --> 01:41:54,960
Like I have switched my social media reporting to one of negative stories to positive stories

1601
01:41:54,960 --> 01:42:01,080
because I don't want to be a part of that disaster trend, which is like negative, negative,

1602
01:42:01,080 --> 01:42:02,080
negative.

1603
01:42:02,080 --> 01:42:06,560
But I want people to see the story, but then see the positive.

1604
01:42:06,560 --> 01:42:14,560
And I'll tell you right now, I mean, I've watched baseball coaches become triage captains.

1605
01:42:14,560 --> 01:42:19,640
I've watched a guy who owns a restaurant feed 10,000 people.

1606
01:42:19,640 --> 01:42:24,960
I've seen so many different people put on hats that they never knew they had because

1607
01:42:24,960 --> 01:42:28,120
our community is hurting and somebody needs to do it.

1608
01:42:28,120 --> 01:42:32,040
Well, this is what I try and do even with my social media.

1609
01:42:32,040 --> 01:42:36,760
And it's just obviously just kind of a platform to promote the podcast ultimately, because

1610
01:42:36,760 --> 01:42:39,080
that's the solutions for people's problems.

1611
01:42:39,080 --> 01:42:42,280
Every person that's coming on here hopefully will help someone who's suffering or maybe

1612
01:42:42,280 --> 01:42:44,200
even save a life.

1613
01:42:44,200 --> 01:42:49,620
But where I found there's so much value is that there's just so much humanity out there.

1614
01:42:49,620 --> 01:42:53,660
But if you watch Fox or CNN religiously, you're not going to see it.

1615
01:42:53,660 --> 01:42:59,160
If you have your social media groomed, hashtag shitbag, you're going to see, you reap what

1616
01:42:59,160 --> 01:43:01,200
you sow.

1617
01:43:01,200 --> 01:43:03,800
But there is so much beautiful humanity.

1618
01:43:03,800 --> 01:43:05,880
I think this is what's so sad.

1619
01:43:05,880 --> 01:43:11,720
This whole weather machine conversation is like the adrenochrome conversation.

1620
01:43:11,720 --> 01:43:15,180
It just distracts from the real world.

1621
01:43:15,180 --> 01:43:19,120
So for example, yes, with children, there are predators out there and we need to focus

1622
01:43:19,120 --> 01:43:23,680
on them, but they're not a bunch of rich people kidnapping children and sucking things out

1623
01:43:23,680 --> 01:43:25,000
of their adrenal glands.

1624
01:43:25,000 --> 01:43:29,800
Because as one of my guests came on and explained, adrenochrome is a byproduct of epinephrine.

1625
01:43:29,800 --> 01:43:33,360
So you can just go to your local pharmacy, get some and then boom.

1626
01:43:33,360 --> 01:43:36,120
But it's being groomed through social media.

1627
01:43:36,120 --> 01:43:41,960
And there's that story has just come out of, I think it was in Ireland, of a guy grooming

1628
01:43:41,960 --> 01:43:45,720
all kinds of people and basically holding these kids to ransom.

1629
01:43:45,720 --> 01:43:49,920
And they were doing things virtually for this whole ring.

1630
01:43:49,920 --> 01:43:51,080
That's what we need to be looking at.

1631
01:43:51,080 --> 01:43:55,640
And it's the same with this whole weather machine ridiculousness.

1632
01:43:55,640 --> 01:44:00,900
There are men, women and children in the Carolinas in Tennessee who need our help.

1633
01:44:00,900 --> 01:44:05,880
And every time you pump up that ridiculous story, you're basically telling the world,

1634
01:44:05,880 --> 01:44:07,460
we don't care about the people.

1635
01:44:07,460 --> 01:44:11,360
We just want to get clicks, likes or sell our advertising space between our shitty news

1636
01:44:11,360 --> 01:44:12,360
stations.

1637
01:44:12,360 --> 01:44:19,640
Or whatever theory, and I have my own theories and I have my own opinions and like everyone

1638
01:44:19,640 --> 01:44:20,640
else does.

1639
01:44:20,640 --> 01:44:27,320
But the reason why I reached out to you and the reason why I feel it's important to give

1640
01:44:27,320 --> 01:44:33,440
that message off is that, yes, the humanities side of things, these people that did extraordinary

1641
01:44:33,440 --> 01:44:37,920
things in an just an unfathomable event.

1642
01:44:37,920 --> 01:44:39,320
No one could have planned this.

1643
01:44:39,320 --> 01:44:42,040
No one could have thought this was going to happen.

1644
01:44:42,040 --> 01:44:45,780
This is a what they went from saying, oh, this is a 50 year flood to a hundred year

1645
01:44:45,780 --> 01:44:47,760
flood to a thousand year flood.

1646
01:44:47,760 --> 01:44:48,760
All right.

1647
01:44:48,760 --> 01:44:53,320
I mean, it's but you see these people rise to the occasion.

1648
01:44:53,320 --> 01:44:54,880
But here's the thing.

1649
01:44:54,880 --> 01:45:00,480
Our aftercare couple of months out, these people that had to put on these hats that

1650
01:45:00,480 --> 01:45:07,280
had to see this tragedy, including our first responders that do it day in and day out,

1651
01:45:07,280 --> 01:45:10,700
they're going to need that help, mental health.

1652
01:45:10,700 --> 01:45:17,800
They're going to need that that the folks to care about that because we have seen so

1653
01:45:17,800 --> 01:45:25,360
much tragedy in such a short amount of time in such a wide span of this region that we're

1654
01:45:25,360 --> 01:45:26,920
going to have it.

1655
01:45:26,920 --> 01:45:30,960
Mental health is going to be an issue three months from now, six months from now, a year

1656
01:45:30,960 --> 01:45:32,800
from now.

1657
01:45:32,800 --> 01:45:36,880
This is going to be one of those stories like you hear those stories in history.

1658
01:45:36,880 --> 01:45:40,880
Ramal Ethel sat on the porch and watched this category five hurricane rip through Kansas

1659
01:45:40,880 --> 01:45:46,880
or the story of the Galveston just being destroyed by Hurricane Camille back, you know, way back

1660
01:45:46,880 --> 01:45:48,360
decades ago.

1661
01:45:48,360 --> 01:45:52,920
And everyone knows that story because everyone retold that was there that story.

1662
01:45:52,920 --> 01:45:54,600
This is going to be a similar event.

1663
01:45:54,600 --> 01:46:02,480
But right now we need to have an our forethought and in our minds of being prepared for the

1664
01:46:02,480 --> 01:46:11,880
mental health, mental health issues and the opportunity to rise to help with those issues

1665
01:46:11,880 --> 01:46:14,560
that that's going to come out of this, too.

1666
01:46:14,560 --> 01:46:17,920
I've had, you know, numerous people that have been on task force.

1667
01:46:17,920 --> 01:46:22,320
You know, one of the really notable ones I think was extremely underreported, certainly

1668
01:46:22,320 --> 01:46:26,360
the death toll was Hurricane Ian that hit the Sanibel area.

1669
01:46:26,360 --> 01:46:28,340
And I've had several friends that have come on that were there.

1670
01:46:28,340 --> 01:46:30,680
One of them was literally the first team.

1671
01:46:30,680 --> 01:46:34,640
And then I forget exactly why, but the following teams were cut off for a while.

1672
01:46:34,640 --> 01:46:37,480
Yeah, the band of weather or something like that.

1673
01:46:37,480 --> 01:46:44,080
So this one team was on their own on Sanibel Island, having to evacuate all these people.

1674
01:46:44,080 --> 01:46:46,920
And I know the impact that some of these deployments have.

1675
01:46:46,920 --> 01:46:51,720
And if you think about it from a fire department point of view, your men and women leave.

1676
01:46:51,720 --> 01:46:52,880
They're gone for a few weeks.

1677
01:46:52,880 --> 01:46:56,500
There's all that kind of conversation about, oh, they'll be racking in the overtime.

1678
01:46:56,500 --> 01:47:00,800
And then they come back because it was, you know, out of my outside, out of mine.

1679
01:47:00,800 --> 01:47:06,400
But you know, as you said, we got to factor in what did they bring that with them mentally?

1680
01:47:06,400 --> 01:47:10,640
Talk to me about the diversity of the rescue teams.

1681
01:47:10,640 --> 01:47:16,840
You mentioned, for example, Ireland and some of the the the stories of humanity that you've

1682
01:47:16,840 --> 01:47:20,000
heard through all these teams over the last few weeks.

1683
01:47:20,000 --> 01:47:26,840
I mean, we've had people like I mentioned to you offline, you know, a group of team,

1684
01:47:26,840 --> 01:47:29,240
a rescue team from Ireland.

1685
01:47:29,240 --> 01:47:31,640
And I was like, hey, did did FEMA call you?

1686
01:47:31,640 --> 01:47:34,740
No, no, we just got on the plane and came over.

1687
01:47:34,740 --> 01:47:38,200
And it's like, you know, every story is like that.

1688
01:47:38,200 --> 01:47:43,000
You have charities like Samaritan's Purse, you have charities, small charities that just

1689
01:47:43,000 --> 01:47:44,000
show up.

1690
01:47:44,000 --> 01:47:47,560
The Cajun Navy, who showed up during Katrina is here on the ground.

1691
01:47:47,560 --> 01:47:49,280
And they have multiple facets.

1692
01:47:49,280 --> 01:47:53,200
Several different outreaches of the Cajun Navy nonprofit.

1693
01:47:53,200 --> 01:48:01,480
And we were our our ministry was kind of honor honored Cajun Navy, whatever you want to call

1694
01:48:01,480 --> 01:48:02,480
it.

1695
01:48:02,480 --> 01:48:03,480
Yeah, yeah.

1696
01:48:03,480 --> 01:48:07,440
So we've we've we've worked well together through this.

1697
01:48:07,440 --> 01:48:13,600
And and so, you know, there's people from all over our state, Chattanooga, Nashville,

1698
01:48:13,600 --> 01:48:14,600
Memphis.

1699
01:48:14,600 --> 01:48:17,840
There's people from all over the southeast San Diego.

1700
01:48:17,840 --> 01:48:21,920
There was a type one rescue team.

1701
01:48:21,920 --> 01:48:27,200
You know, you saw a rescue team from San Diego and they just got on the plane and they dropped

1702
01:48:27,200 --> 01:48:31,400
in and just went to where I mean, they reported it.

1703
01:48:31,400 --> 01:48:32,720
OK, what's the worst hit area?

1704
01:48:32,720 --> 01:48:33,720
We're going to go here.

1705
01:48:33,720 --> 01:48:38,520
I've heard of National Guard units when it first started deploy themselves.

1706
01:48:38,520 --> 01:48:40,880
Hey, we're not going to wait for the governor's orders.

1707
01:48:40,880 --> 01:48:42,000
We're just going to go out here.

1708
01:48:42,000 --> 01:48:43,000
You're not going to get paid.

1709
01:48:43,000 --> 01:48:44,000
None of the men groveled.

1710
01:48:44,000 --> 01:48:47,000
None of them said, OK, we'll wait here until the governor orders are done.

1711
01:48:47,000 --> 01:48:49,360
Until the governor orders is that way, we'll get paid.

1712
01:48:49,360 --> 01:48:51,880
No, they got in their trucks and they took off.

1713
01:48:51,880 --> 01:48:54,480
And by the time they were there, the governor said yes.

1714
01:48:54,480 --> 01:48:58,240
But they were prepared to do this without pay.

1715
01:48:58,240 --> 01:49:06,080
And so, you know, all walks of life, there was a gentleman from New York City called

1716
01:49:06,080 --> 01:49:07,360
Cops Helping Cops.

1717
01:49:07,360 --> 01:49:15,000
He has a nonprofit and he basically does what I do, but for a cop centered mission.

1718
01:49:15,000 --> 01:49:18,320
So he he's out there helping law enforcement.

1719
01:49:18,320 --> 01:49:21,120
So he came up and and was helping us.

1720
01:49:21,120 --> 01:49:26,000
And so one of the things that we did as a ministry was, for example, Green County, Green

1721
01:49:26,000 --> 01:49:32,240
County had no power, no water for for weeks and just like an asphalt.

1722
01:49:32,240 --> 01:49:37,760
And so how do you provide food for an army of rescuers and recovery folks on the ground?

1723
01:49:37,760 --> 01:49:40,920
You're talking about four or five, six hundred plus people.

1724
01:49:40,920 --> 01:49:41,920
How do you provide food?

1725
01:49:41,920 --> 01:49:43,680
How do you provide water?

1726
01:49:43,680 --> 01:49:44,760
How do you provide shelter?

1727
01:49:44,760 --> 01:49:48,720
And we were able to get plugged into that equation and just start networking with people

1728
01:49:48,720 --> 01:49:52,200
who's got what and where and then bringing it in.

1729
01:49:52,200 --> 01:49:56,960
And so what Green County did was they just started relying on all these nonprofits to

1730
01:49:56,960 --> 01:50:00,600
come in and we were keeping them as a ministry.

1731
01:50:00,600 --> 01:50:08,480
We were just one of many nonprofits keeping the rescue effort fed and keeping them hydrated

1732
01:50:08,480 --> 01:50:11,400
because they had no access to water.

1733
01:50:11,400 --> 01:50:13,280
And and you'd be surprised.

1734
01:50:13,280 --> 01:50:16,120
I'm not called up a local beverage company at Bottles Soda's.

1735
01:50:16,120 --> 01:50:22,680
And I was like, hey, we're this ministry and this rescue effort's going to need some water

1736
01:50:22,680 --> 01:50:27,360
and need some soda and whatever they're going to need to get through the day.

1737
01:50:27,360 --> 01:50:29,320
And they're like, OK, we'll send a truck.

1738
01:50:29,320 --> 01:50:32,400
And I'm sitting here thinking like a little box truck with a couple of pounds on it.

1739
01:50:32,400 --> 01:50:35,680
They sent an 18 wheeler fully loaded and said, well, this work.

1740
01:50:35,680 --> 01:50:36,680
Yes.

1741
01:50:36,680 --> 01:50:40,080
You know, like and we started divvying out, getting them stocked up, then go in the next

1742
01:50:40,080 --> 01:50:42,040
rescue effort and getting them stocked up.

1743
01:50:42,040 --> 01:50:47,920
So, you know, there was a lot of outside the box thinking here.

1744
01:50:47,920 --> 01:50:52,600
And I got an opportunity to meet a lot of people, some Cajuns coming up cooking for

1745
01:50:52,600 --> 01:50:53,600
the volunteers.

1746
01:50:53,600 --> 01:50:55,800
Somebody had to feed the volunteers here, too.

1747
01:50:55,800 --> 01:50:58,960
And so just kind of whatever need, oh, here we see this need.

1748
01:50:58,960 --> 01:51:00,200
Somebody else answers it.

1749
01:51:00,200 --> 01:51:05,580
And seeing people from all over the country, from other countries just jump in.

1750
01:51:05,580 --> 01:51:08,360
There was two gentlemen I met.

1751
01:51:08,360 --> 01:51:12,040
They had a cadaver dog and they were specially trained.

1752
01:51:12,040 --> 01:51:16,320
They usually do like water recoveries for sheriff's departments.

1753
01:51:16,320 --> 01:51:17,320
So they will go out.

1754
01:51:17,320 --> 01:51:21,000
The dog's trained to smell through water in this sense.

1755
01:51:21,000 --> 01:51:24,840
In this situation, in this instance, this was a perfect situation for that dog because

1756
01:51:24,840 --> 01:51:26,700
in some areas that go out and boat.

1757
01:51:26,700 --> 01:51:28,920
Some areas were just covered thick in mud.

1758
01:51:28,920 --> 01:51:33,200
And but these two gentlemen had this dog that was trained.

1759
01:51:33,200 --> 01:51:38,120
They were out here on their own dime, jumped in their truck, lived on the Mississippi side

1760
01:51:38,120 --> 01:51:42,320
of Memphis, jumped in their truck, made it to Elizabethan, Tennessee, which is one of

1761
01:51:42,320 --> 01:51:46,920
the areas that was hit hard in Tennessee, and just showed up at the command center and

1762
01:51:46,920 --> 01:51:49,360
said, put us to work.

1763
01:51:49,360 --> 01:51:52,920
These guys, I mean, other than being members of a volunteer rescue squad, they're very

1764
01:51:52,920 --> 01:51:53,920
young.

1765
01:51:53,920 --> 01:51:54,920
They're in their 20s.

1766
01:51:54,920 --> 01:51:56,680
They just had a heart to serve.

1767
01:51:56,680 --> 01:51:59,560
And I was like, hey, what do you guys do when you're not doing this?

1768
01:51:59,560 --> 01:52:00,560
Oh, I'm a welder.

1769
01:52:00,560 --> 01:52:02,360
The other kid was like, I want a plumber.

1770
01:52:02,360 --> 01:52:04,520
Like they just have normal everyday jobs.

1771
01:52:04,520 --> 01:52:08,160
But they had this one unique skill that they use locally in their region.

1772
01:52:08,160 --> 01:52:09,160
And they just jumped.

1773
01:52:09,160 --> 01:52:10,160
No one asked them to come.

1774
01:52:10,160 --> 01:52:11,920
They just jumped in and did it.

1775
01:52:11,920 --> 01:52:17,360
And we were, I mean, there was so much here that we didn't turn away help for a long time.

1776
01:52:17,360 --> 01:52:23,400
And I'm going to tell you, like I burnt so much gas, but it was worth it.

1777
01:52:23,400 --> 01:52:27,840
It was worth going every day and checking on the main three incident command centers

1778
01:52:27,840 --> 01:52:30,080
in my region.

1779
01:52:30,080 --> 01:52:33,560
And then every weekend going into these areas that we couldn't get into along the North

1780
01:52:33,560 --> 01:52:42,200
Carolina Tennessee border and servicing those areas and seeing what they need.

1781
01:52:42,200 --> 01:52:47,520
And then there was churches and groups that would just show up.

1782
01:52:47,520 --> 01:52:50,160
Hey, I saw on the internet, you needed 200 generators.

1783
01:52:50,160 --> 01:52:52,800
Here they are.

1784
01:52:52,800 --> 01:52:53,800
Stuff like that.

1785
01:52:53,800 --> 01:52:56,360
Just, it blows my mind.

1786
01:52:56,360 --> 01:52:57,360
But it happened everywhere.

1787
01:52:57,360 --> 01:53:02,200
I mean, we're a little nonprofit with not much in our checking book.

1788
01:53:02,200 --> 01:53:05,640
We don't need a lot to operate right now.

1789
01:53:05,640 --> 01:53:12,880
And so how do you feed 600 people times three incident command centers for a week?

1790
01:53:12,880 --> 01:53:15,720
Well, we made this goal.

1791
01:53:15,720 --> 01:53:21,680
We're going to just go ahead and feed these three groups for this week.

1792
01:53:21,680 --> 01:53:26,280
And when we run out of money at the end of the week, then we'll back up and putt.

1793
01:53:26,280 --> 01:53:29,000
Every time I needed the money, somebody else had the money.

1794
01:53:29,000 --> 01:53:31,920
It was insane to see that happen.

1795
01:53:31,920 --> 01:53:38,320
And it was almost like the fishes and lo story out of scripture of Jesus feeding the 5,000

1796
01:53:38,320 --> 01:53:41,560
because every time we need, I would get a phone call from one of these incident command

1797
01:53:41,560 --> 01:53:42,560
centers.

1798
01:53:42,560 --> 01:53:45,200
Hey, we're going to need X amount of gloves and socks.

1799
01:53:45,200 --> 01:53:46,200
Okay.

1800
01:53:46,200 --> 01:53:48,760
I would get on the phone and put the word out.

1801
01:53:48,760 --> 01:53:50,120
I'm going to need this.

1802
01:53:50,120 --> 01:53:51,120
Boom.

1803
01:53:51,120 --> 01:53:53,800
Needs filled by some stranger.

1804
01:53:53,800 --> 01:53:56,280
So it just, it was amazing.

1805
01:53:56,280 --> 01:54:00,480
Something that's also, I don't know if you're aware of, but the water is so toxic right

1806
01:54:00,480 --> 01:54:04,640
now that the recovery efforts, some of the water, the water is so toxic with all the

1807
01:54:04,640 --> 01:54:10,400
debris and chemicals and just junk in it that the rubber is eating away on the boots, the

1808
01:54:10,400 --> 01:54:11,400
rubber soles.

1809
01:54:11,400 --> 01:54:12,400
Oh wow.

1810
01:54:12,400 --> 01:54:13,400
They're wearing down.

1811
01:54:13,400 --> 01:54:14,680
It's just the water is so toxic.

1812
01:54:14,680 --> 01:54:16,080
It's not drinkable right now.

1813
01:54:16,080 --> 01:54:21,240
And so, so there's a call for rubber boots in some regions.

1814
01:54:21,240 --> 01:54:25,240
And so, you know, I'm getting those reports back.

1815
01:54:25,240 --> 01:54:26,240
Hey, we need some boots.

1816
01:54:26,240 --> 01:54:27,920
You know, that, that's something too.

1817
01:54:27,920 --> 01:54:33,120
You can be prepared for every incident, but I don't think any County in the South Appalachia

1818
01:54:33,120 --> 01:54:41,120
region was prepared for a long-term plus three week deployment of an incident command structure

1819
01:54:41,120 --> 01:54:43,840
and incident command system.

1820
01:54:43,840 --> 01:54:48,560
You're prepared maybe for days or a week, but not, not in this scale.

1821
01:54:48,560 --> 01:54:53,520
So it was truly the people that just jumped in their car and came up and helped were put

1822
01:54:53,520 --> 01:54:55,160
to use.

1823
01:54:55,160 --> 01:54:56,160
And that's awesome.

1824
01:54:56,160 --> 01:54:57,160
That is awesome to hear.

1825
01:54:57,160 --> 01:54:59,960
I think we kind of learned lessons from Katrina.

1826
01:54:59,960 --> 01:55:02,720
There were so many Monday morning quarterbacking on it.

1827
01:55:02,720 --> 01:55:06,160
And some people kind of had their mind, we're not going to let this happen again.

1828
01:55:06,160 --> 01:55:09,640
And so there was a lot of those people that are like, we're going to be the doers.

1829
01:55:09,640 --> 01:55:11,640
We're going to be the helpers.

1830
01:55:11,640 --> 01:55:15,080
You know, and they just went and did it.

1831
01:55:15,080 --> 01:55:18,440
They just went and took care of it.

1832
01:55:18,440 --> 01:55:23,440
With September 11th happening somewhat recently, you know, I always revisit the, I miss September

1833
01:55:23,440 --> 01:55:27,760
12th conversation because that's when America came together.

1834
01:55:27,760 --> 01:55:32,280
And if you look at it statistically, Americans are a very charitable nation.

1835
01:55:32,280 --> 01:55:34,360
And you mentioned about the election being the shiny object.

1836
01:55:34,360 --> 01:55:36,160
I would say it was a very tarnished object.

1837
01:55:36,160 --> 01:55:37,160
I mean, it's awful.

1838
01:55:37,160 --> 01:55:41,080
It's divisive and, you know, setting people against each other.

1839
01:55:41,080 --> 01:55:42,880
But this is what America really is.

1840
01:55:42,880 --> 01:55:47,240
And over and over again, when you see these tragedies, you see people come together, good

1841
01:55:47,240 --> 01:55:48,720
people come together, not everyone.

1842
01:55:48,720 --> 01:55:51,960
You know, there's the ones that are using it for their own personal gain or political

1843
01:55:51,960 --> 01:55:52,960
gain or whatever.

1844
01:55:52,960 --> 01:55:56,200
But most people roll up their sleeves and they do want to help.

1845
01:55:56,200 --> 01:56:02,040
So I think it's so important to highlight these stories and hear about what America

1846
01:56:02,040 --> 01:56:03,040
really is.

1847
01:56:03,040 --> 01:56:08,480
Because within all those groups, depending obviously on the demographic of the population,

1848
01:56:08,480 --> 01:56:12,080
I'm sure there was gay and straight and black and white and Muslim and Christian, but they

1849
01:56:12,080 --> 01:56:14,240
were just Americans coming together.

1850
01:56:14,240 --> 01:56:16,720
It didn't matter at that point.

1851
01:56:16,720 --> 01:56:24,200
It still doesn't matter what you know, who you are, where you are, where you come from.

1852
01:56:24,200 --> 01:56:29,680
And that's what like as a ministry, you know, I, you know, the guys from Ireland, when I

1853
01:56:29,680 --> 01:56:31,080
talk to them, I said, let me pray for you.

1854
01:56:31,080 --> 01:56:32,080
We're Catholic.

1855
01:56:32,080 --> 01:56:33,080
Doesn't matter.

1856
01:56:33,080 --> 01:56:34,080
I'm still going to pray for you.

1857
01:56:34,080 --> 01:56:35,080
I still love you.

1858
01:56:35,080 --> 01:56:38,120
And I still love that you're here.

1859
01:56:38,120 --> 01:56:42,080
You know, we I hope that that resonates.

1860
01:56:42,080 --> 01:56:44,040
We're very resilient people.

1861
01:56:44,040 --> 01:56:48,560
You know, I can say that being born and raised here, you kind of grow up a little self-reliant

1862
01:56:48,560 --> 01:56:53,760
in this area and probably not as much as my my grandfather's generation.

1863
01:56:53,760 --> 01:56:59,360
But you definitely have some good mountain people that if they were cut off for a month

1864
01:56:59,360 --> 01:57:02,320
from society, you probably wouldn't miss much.

1865
01:57:02,320 --> 01:57:04,640
They are that well prepared.

1866
01:57:04,640 --> 01:57:06,780
But even their resources were taxed.

1867
01:57:06,780 --> 01:57:12,240
Even their resources were either what they prepped for was washed away.

1868
01:57:12,240 --> 01:57:17,080
And but, you know, when we got into some of these smaller mountain communities where there

1869
01:57:17,080 --> 01:57:21,360
was nothing much left, I wept.

1870
01:57:21,360 --> 01:57:24,200
I mean, the first lady we met collapsed in our arms.

1871
01:57:24,200 --> 01:57:26,800
Now, this is six days after the event.

1872
01:57:26,800 --> 01:57:30,720
And this is six days after them seeing somebody from outside their community coming in.

1873
01:57:30,720 --> 01:57:32,280
And it was like an army of rednecks.

1874
01:57:32,280 --> 01:57:37,720
And I say this army of trucks and chainsaws and whatever we could think of loaded in the

1875
01:57:37,720 --> 01:57:38,720
back.

1876
01:57:38,720 --> 01:57:39,720
Right.

1877
01:57:39,720 --> 01:57:43,840
And they were there with chainsaws and then going, OK, what's your needs?

1878
01:57:43,840 --> 01:57:44,840
What are you out of?

1879
01:57:44,840 --> 01:57:49,480
I mean, they had to raid local stores like local convenience stores.

1880
01:57:49,480 --> 01:57:52,600
Like everything in the store is up for whatever rescue efforts we don't.

1881
01:57:52,600 --> 01:57:55,720
We're going to work it out with corporate, but we have no power.

1882
01:57:55,720 --> 01:57:58,080
We have no way to just we need to help our people.

1883
01:57:58,080 --> 01:57:59,080
Right.

1884
01:57:59,080 --> 01:58:01,600
Because that was the small the only store in that town.

1885
01:58:01,600 --> 01:58:04,320
And so they just so they were fine for a couple of days.

1886
01:58:04,320 --> 01:58:09,300
But when we came in there with resources on the Tennessee side, they were getting pretty

1887
01:58:09,300 --> 01:58:11,360
close to.

1888
01:58:11,360 --> 01:58:13,040
Trying to figure out what we're going to do next.

1889
01:58:13,040 --> 01:58:16,880
They were taking that toxic muddy water and trying to find a way to boil it and drink

1890
01:58:16,880 --> 01:58:20,520
it because that's all they had.

1891
01:58:20,520 --> 01:58:26,280
And so when we walked in there six months after or six days after the event and that

1892
01:58:26,280 --> 01:58:31,860
lady collapsed and we were helping her because she's just overwhelmed with joy seeing this

1893
01:58:31,860 --> 01:58:39,480
in what she wasn't collapsing because she was just overexcited to see help.

1894
01:58:39,480 --> 01:58:43,640
And so I got back in the truck and I was on my way to the incident command center for

1895
01:58:43,640 --> 01:58:45,800
that county, Mitchell County.

1896
01:58:45,800 --> 01:58:49,520
And the gentleman with me, he goes, let's stop here and just give ourselves a moment.

1897
01:58:49,520 --> 01:58:51,560
I can't cry in front of police officers.

1898
01:58:51,560 --> 01:58:53,480
I can't cry in front of firefighters.

1899
01:58:53,480 --> 01:58:56,200
I'm too much in for this.

1900
01:58:56,200 --> 01:58:58,960
And we just sat there and wept a bit.

1901
01:58:58,960 --> 01:59:05,160
But you know, it was we were weeping in for joy also because all these people behind us

1902
01:59:05,160 --> 01:59:08,220
coming in with trucks, none of us knew each other.

1903
01:59:08,220 --> 01:59:13,880
It was just people who got in a truck, loaded our stuff up and ran to help.

1904
01:59:13,880 --> 01:59:17,280
And I think at the end of the day, that is what an American does.

1905
01:59:17,280 --> 01:59:22,320
That is what, I mean, it's not just the Southern Appalachian region, but we had, like I said,

1906
01:59:22,320 --> 01:59:25,760
people from San Diego, people from Texas, people from all over, people from Ireland.

1907
01:59:25,760 --> 01:59:30,660
I'm sure there's other countries here I haven't met yet, but we've had people just come from

1908
01:59:30,660 --> 01:59:34,240
all over and say, hey, I'm here to help.

1909
01:59:34,240 --> 01:59:41,040
And you know, going back to that, what's going to happen now is now that we're over the life

1910
01:59:41,040 --> 01:59:49,480
and death of the physical event, the emotional and spiritual toll is going to come next.

1911
01:59:49,480 --> 01:59:55,520
And so, you know, I'm hoping there's still that same zeal and that same drive that we

1912
01:59:55,520 --> 02:00:01,480
help rebuild our neighbors' houses, you know, physically and spiritually.

1913
02:00:01,480 --> 02:00:08,640
Well, you hit on a really important and interesting point as well for the people locally in the

1914
02:00:08,640 --> 02:00:11,180
areas that were hit.

1915
02:00:11,180 --> 02:00:15,800
Just like yourself, you know, a lot of people are, you know, hikers and fishermen and, you

1916
02:00:15,800 --> 02:00:19,720
know, and hunters and their environment has been destroyed.

1917
02:00:19,720 --> 02:00:21,520
So just expand on that.

1918
02:00:21,520 --> 02:00:22,520
Yeah.

1919
02:00:22,520 --> 02:00:29,640
So, you know, part of my aftercare, part of how I help my stress levels is I recreate.

1920
02:00:29,640 --> 02:00:31,400
I go out in the outdoors.

1921
02:00:31,400 --> 02:00:34,240
That was me from the beginning.

1922
02:00:34,240 --> 02:00:39,520
But some of these regions, the forests are gone.

1923
02:00:39,520 --> 02:00:43,600
So if you're a hunter and you enjoy this time of year because this is the time of year to

1924
02:00:43,600 --> 02:00:48,240
do it, you might not have the resources to hunt or fish.

1925
02:00:48,240 --> 02:00:55,040
A lot of our streams, even our local streams, the ones touched by the floods and the mudslides

1926
02:00:55,040 --> 02:00:56,600
are toxic.

1927
02:00:56,600 --> 02:00:59,200
They don't know when it's going to be safe to eat the fish.

1928
02:00:59,200 --> 02:01:05,140
You got to also look at the massive amounts of fish kills in these streams and rivers

1929
02:01:05,140 --> 02:01:06,280
that happen because of it.

1930
02:01:06,280 --> 02:01:07,280
There's fish floating up.

1931
02:01:07,280 --> 02:01:11,320
And so all that gets, all that dead, all that muck, all of it's toxic.

1932
02:01:11,320 --> 02:01:17,160
And so if you're a fisherman and we had some of the best and we'll, we still have some

1933
02:01:17,160 --> 02:01:22,560
streams left that were untouched, but we had like the Wataga rivers, the Wataga river,

1934
02:01:22,560 --> 02:01:24,880
the Nolichucky river.

1935
02:01:24,880 --> 02:01:31,960
Those were the two biggest and the French broad are the rivers that have huge amounts

1936
02:01:31,960 --> 02:01:37,280
of trout, huge amounts of fish.

1937
02:01:37,280 --> 02:01:40,720
So you have that fishing component to it.

1938
02:01:40,720 --> 02:01:43,620
The Appalachian trails snakes through all this.

1939
02:01:43,620 --> 02:01:47,880
People that love to go hiking, those trails are shut down right now because they're just

1940
02:01:47,880 --> 02:01:50,120
some of them are washed out or too dangerous.

1941
02:01:50,120 --> 02:01:52,400
The Blue Ridge Parkway shut down.

1942
02:01:52,400 --> 02:01:54,880
Some of our state parks are shut down.

1943
02:01:54,880 --> 02:01:57,760
We might not open them up this year.

1944
02:01:57,760 --> 02:01:58,920
They might be open at the end of the year.

1945
02:01:58,920 --> 02:01:59,920
We don't know.

1946
02:01:59,920 --> 02:02:08,900
So there's a lot of the, what you would normally do to recreate, to wind down as a person,

1947
02:02:08,900 --> 02:02:11,080
it's a lot going to be a lot harder to do.

1948
02:02:11,080 --> 02:02:16,120
And then you also looking at the economic impact of these economies thrived on that

1949
02:02:16,120 --> 02:02:17,120
tourism.

1950
02:02:17,120 --> 02:02:26,560
You know, Boone, North Carolina, Banner Elk, Spruce Pine, Asheville, Chimney Rock.

1951
02:02:26,560 --> 02:02:28,520
You said yourself, you climbed to the top of that.

1952
02:02:28,520 --> 02:02:34,840
That it's a huge, like going in there, that economy is going to be changed for a while.

1953
02:02:34,840 --> 02:02:40,200
So and then these smaller mountain towns that were cute and quaint and have been there for

1954
02:02:40,200 --> 02:02:43,200
like 150 years.

1955
02:02:43,200 --> 02:02:48,160
Give you an example, Marshall, North Carolina had this beautiful quick, like just like out

1956
02:02:48,160 --> 02:02:52,040
of nowhere, just it looked like somebody just popped up a town out in the middle of these

1957
02:02:52,040 --> 02:02:55,200
mountains and it goes back a hundred years.

1958
02:02:55,200 --> 02:02:57,200
So these buildings are old.

1959
02:02:57,200 --> 02:03:01,560
These buildings are part of history and now they're destroyed.

1960
02:03:01,560 --> 02:03:06,120
And so their economy was, you know, people coming in to see this beautiful hundred year

1961
02:03:06,120 --> 02:03:11,240
old architecture town in the mountains and get the, you know, bread and jam from the

1962
02:03:11,240 --> 02:03:17,800
local diner and whatever they were there to buy that that that commerce is gone, that

1963
02:03:17,800 --> 02:03:19,840
that economy is gone.

1964
02:03:19,840 --> 02:03:27,240
And so it's almost the same as the coal mines shutting down in West Virginia.

1965
02:03:27,240 --> 02:03:31,640
So these communities are going to struggle with the economic impact.

1966
02:03:31,640 --> 02:03:32,640
Absolutely.

1967
02:03:32,640 --> 02:03:37,400
Well, I want to get to where people can find Lifeline Ministries, but just before we close

1968
02:03:37,400 --> 02:03:41,800
out, is there anything else you want to add to the conversation?

1969
02:03:41,800 --> 02:03:45,840
I just want to echo again how amazing.

1970
02:03:45,840 --> 02:03:51,960
So many people would, you know, we would be in the field, they would say, thank you so

1971
02:03:51,960 --> 02:03:53,160
much for what you're doing.

1972
02:03:53,160 --> 02:03:55,480
Thank you so much for what you're doing.

1973
02:03:55,480 --> 02:04:00,440
And I would say to them that I'm just a dot connector.

1974
02:04:00,440 --> 02:04:03,240
I'm just connecting the dots.

1975
02:04:03,240 --> 02:04:07,880
God has lined up opportunities for me to connect those dots.

1976
02:04:07,880 --> 02:04:13,800
There's so many people that you would never know and never meet until something like this

1977
02:04:13,800 --> 02:04:16,880
happens that were like me just connecting the dots.

1978
02:04:16,880 --> 02:04:22,400
And so I want to say thanks to those people and thanks to those who have been serving

1979
02:04:22,400 --> 02:04:29,960
not just our ministry, but other ministries and people giving up whole businesses.

1980
02:04:29,960 --> 02:04:36,040
Have my building so you can stock it full of disaster supplies or have my whatever so

1981
02:04:36,040 --> 02:04:37,040
you can feed people.

1982
02:04:37,040 --> 02:04:42,360
So I just want to say thank you to those people that have done so much.

1983
02:04:42,360 --> 02:04:51,600
And you know, it's you just that that makes me want to cry just thinking about the people

1984
02:04:51,600 --> 02:04:57,160
that are willing to give up their personal comforts, their personal safeties, had no

1985
02:04:57,160 --> 02:05:01,800
or zero training and are just we're willing to just say I'm willing to help.

1986
02:05:01,800 --> 02:05:05,320
I want to say thank you to those folks.

1987
02:05:05,320 --> 02:05:06,320
But yeah.

1988
02:05:06,320 --> 02:05:12,240
Well, for people listening, if they want to learn more about you and your ministry, if

1989
02:05:12,240 --> 02:05:16,280
they want to contribute, where are the best places online to do that?

1990
02:05:16,280 --> 02:05:18,120
So we are on Facebook.

1991
02:05:18,120 --> 02:05:25,080
So with our official official nonprofit is First Responder Lifeline.

1992
02:05:25,080 --> 02:05:28,240
So you can go to First Responder Lifeline dot com.

1993
02:05:28,240 --> 02:05:34,120
You can also check us out at First Responder Lifeline on Facebook and you can check us

1994
02:05:34,120 --> 02:05:35,120
out.

1995
02:05:35,120 --> 02:05:36,120
We try to post things on there.

1996
02:05:36,120 --> 02:05:40,360
I try to keep that we're very well up on our Facebook page.

1997
02:05:40,360 --> 02:05:48,520
And but, you know, as I said, our coffers are quite small, but it does take some money

1998
02:05:48,520 --> 02:05:53,020
to keep the things going on an early basis and training up.

1999
02:05:53,020 --> 02:05:54,440
We want to get bigger.

2000
02:05:54,440 --> 02:05:59,040
We started this as a we're going to be a small hometown ministry.

2001
02:05:59,040 --> 02:06:04,640
And now we're now we're in multiple counties because we saw a need.

2002
02:06:04,640 --> 02:06:10,320
And so anywhere you could help be praying for us daily, reach out to us, give us words

2003
02:06:10,320 --> 02:06:16,640
of encouragement and help plug us into other ministries like ourselves.

2004
02:06:16,640 --> 02:06:19,360
And so we can network together.

2005
02:06:19,360 --> 02:06:22,480
We're only going to be stronger if we're together.

2006
02:06:22,480 --> 02:06:26,800
And but if we stay divided, we're not going to be strong.

2007
02:06:26,800 --> 02:06:27,800
So hundred percent.

2008
02:06:27,800 --> 02:06:33,240
Well, I want to thank you so much not only for being the voice of the people still dealing

2009
02:06:33,240 --> 02:06:38,600
with this and, as you said, the voice of the responders and and the community themselves

2010
02:06:38,600 --> 02:06:43,040
of the ripple effect, acknowledging that this is not just going to go away when the roads

2011
02:06:43,040 --> 02:06:46,160
are rebuilt and the banks of the rivers are repaired.

2012
02:06:46,160 --> 02:06:48,320
But it's going to have a long lasting effect.

2013
02:06:48,320 --> 02:06:52,600
But I also want to thank you personally for your courageous vulnerability and telling

2014
02:06:52,600 --> 02:06:54,100
your own story.

2015
02:06:54,100 --> 02:06:58,240
So I want to thank you so, so much for being so generous with your time and coming on the

2016
02:06:58,240 --> 02:07:02,320
Behind the Shield podcast today.

2017
02:07:02,320 --> 02:07:03,320
You're welcome.

2018
02:07:03,320 --> 02:07:07,500
And, you know, your dark side project is what sparked this.

2019
02:07:07,500 --> 02:07:13,120
So I want to say thank you because when I was working through my journey and you launched

2020
02:07:13,120 --> 02:07:15,480
that page was the same time.

2021
02:07:15,480 --> 02:07:18,480
So what you did helped launch something like this.

2022
02:07:18,480 --> 02:07:38,680
So thanks, James.