1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,400
Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast. My name is James Gearing and this is episode 39.

2
00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:12,880
And to summarize what the whole show is about, this is a show aimed at improving wellness, wellness

3
00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:19,680
amongst first responders, initially police, fire, EMS, military, people in the medical community,

4
00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:25,440
nurses, doctors, and everyone else on the planet. The people that we had on the show so far from

5
00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:32,720
authors to farmers to Navy SEALs to UFC fighters, they've all taught things that specifically our

6
00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:39,280
community can gain from but obviously anyone can gain from. We have waited to talk about this

7
00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:46,320
specific subject until now. I had a project that I was working on a while ago, the Dark Side project,

8
00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:53,120
which is a Facebook page where we touched on PTSD and mental health. Well, my next guest, Dustin

9
00:00:53,120 --> 00:01:00,240
Hawkins, is a man who has literally been put through the wringer by God, by the universe,

10
00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:06,080
however you want to describe it. This man has been tested physically to the lengths that very few

11
00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:12,480
people on this planet, I think, have been tested so far. He got to a very dark place where he made

12
00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:20,000
the decision to end his life, was intercepted luckily by his family and friends, lost one of

13
00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:26,880
those close friends since then and has now made it his goal to improve mental wellness within our

14
00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:31,920
community. Now, Dustin is going to have an announcement about a project called Red Line Rescue.

15
00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:37,520
I'm here to spread the word. I'm using this medium to try and get this to as many people as possible

16
00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:43,120
but Red Line Rescue and then ultimately Blue Line and Green Line, which are going to be the police

17
00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:50,000
and the military, I'm guaranteeing are going to be the solution to the problems that we're having at

18
00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:55,760
the moment with so many first responders feeling like they a can't talk to anyone and then b are

19
00:01:55,760 --> 00:02:01,440
not able to find the right kind of help once they do reach out. There's a huge disconnect between

20
00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:07,120
first responders and counselors and this project is going to basically bridge that gap. They're

21
00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:11,840
going to bring training to the counselors and educate them and actually even do ride-alongs

22
00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:16,720
where they understand what a firefighter, a policeman or even a soldier goes through when

23
00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:22,400
they're in their work environment and then they're also going to create a network that's extremely

24
00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:29,200
easily accessible for police, fire and ultimately military to look in their local area and see,

25
00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:33,680
okay, which of these counselors has been through this, which of them understand so when I walk

26
00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:38,160
through the door, immediately they know who I am and what I do instead of some of the horror

27
00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:43,040
stories that you'll hear Dustin talk about with his own personal journey. So I ask you this,

28
00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:50,240
firstly listen to it. This is a long, long journey that he talks about, he monologues.

29
00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:56,080
I try to not interrupt at all. I literally just shut up and listen. I was moved to tears myself

30
00:02:56,080 --> 00:03:02,880
at one point when he's talking about his darkest times, but this man has poured his heart out for

31
00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:09,680
all of us and put himself out there, made himself extremely vulnerable and we owe it to him to A,

32
00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:15,840
listen to this, B, comprehend it and then go to the website and learn more about the Redline

33
00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:21,200
Project, but most importantly after that, to share this, to talk about this and if you're not in the

34
00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:26,560
Florida area, then start making the same thing happen in your state or your country. We have

35
00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:33,760
listeners all over the globe. So take this idea, they have all the blueprints I guess you could say

36
00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:40,640
on their site and then start applying it to your community. We have lost so many people to

37
00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:47,600
suicide, we've had so many marriages destroyed by our job, so many people turned to alcoholism,

38
00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:53,680
to drug addiction and I truly feel that this is going to be one of the links in the chain

39
00:03:53,680 --> 00:04:00,160
for recovery. The goal is post-traumatic growth, so we all see these horrendous things,

40
00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:06,480
but the goal is just like a back injury or anything else, not to let it crush you and disable you and

41
00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:12,240
then you just wish in a way time till you pass away, but to come back stronger. But the first

42
00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:17,520
thing is identifying that, then using all the other things we talked about, the physical practices,

43
00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:25,280
the mental practice, the good nutrition, the good sleep and adding that to everything else to enable

44
00:04:25,280 --> 00:04:30,960
you to come out of the dark place, heal and then make it your mission to testify and tell other

45
00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:35,840
people about the journey you've been through. So I don't want to make this monologue too long,

46
00:04:35,840 --> 00:04:42,000
this intro, our interview is the longest one I've ever done, it's two hours, but I guarantee you it

47
00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:47,920
is the most powerful two hours I've ever spent listening to another human being, behind the microphone or not.

48
00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:55,040
And I know that this message is going to resonate firstly through our community and then all the

49
00:04:55,040 --> 00:05:00,400
the ripple effect outside that and I think that this project may well even shape the way

50
00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:05,600
mental health and depression and suicide are even addressed outside our community.

51
00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:11,760
So without further ado, I introduce to you firefighter and my brother Dustin Hawkins.

52
00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:37,920
So welcome to Behind the Shield, Dustin. Thank you so much for coming on. Obviously, we have been

53
00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:42,480
planning this for a long time, but I know there are some things that we're going to reveal today

54
00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:49,360
in this interview that you wanted to time so that everything was ready. So first question,

55
00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:55,360
where are you right now? Oh, right now, physically, or would you like to know where the organization is

56
00:05:55,360 --> 00:06:03,360
at? Physically. Physically, I'm enjoying one of the things as first responders that really truly

57
00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:08,480
should be able to take the time to celebrate but at home here with my wonderful family in Fort Pierce,

58
00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:15,120
Florida, off duty, which is a beautiful thing. So just celebrating being at home having a day off

59
00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:20,960
and enjoying the simpler things here. Like we get done with this, I'll be outside gardening. So I am

60
00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:27,360
very, very thankful for that. Fantastic. And were you born in Fort Pierce? I was born in Vero Beach,

61
00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:34,160
Indian River County. Okay. And did you have firefighters in your family? No, I was born and

62
00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:42,000
raised in an Air Force family and a law enforcement family. My dad's a law enforcement officer and my

63
00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:48,640
mom is a teacher. Oh, okay. So between the two of them, they were able to, my mom was able to educate

64
00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:54,720
me to listen to my dad who said, if you do anything, don't be a cop. Yeah, I think this,

65
00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:59,760
you're either one or the other. This doesn't seem to be too much of a cross section there.

66
00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:08,720
All right. So what was your upbringing like? Well, I was raised in a Christian based family.

67
00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:19,520
My mom sent me to a Catholic school. I have a brother that older than me and then he stayed here

68
00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:29,040
in town and just a really close tight knit family has had our, really our path. Our parents were

69
00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:33,920
very supportive of whatever was holistic and healthy for us. They really facilitated that.

70
00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:42,000
My mom was really a big part of me getting into the fire service and following my passion there.

71
00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:48,400
As it mostly goes, you're either at 18, you go to college, you go to the military,

72
00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:55,280
or you go to trade school and really just had that drive to be in the service of others and

73
00:07:55,280 --> 00:08:01,520
watching my mom of 28 years in public school system and my father in law enforcement and

74
00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:07,360
working for the city and just really being in the service of our community. It was a very guiding

75
00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:14,720
inspiration and really role models to take after. So I definitely appreciate that as growing up,

76
00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:20,480
having a close knit family as well as even now more so than ever having a family that's

77
00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:25,760
protective of one another and very open and communicative with our successes and our

78
00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:33,280
struggles. So it's been, they've been part of really who I am to a very core of getting me into

79
00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:38,480
being in the greatest career on earth, which is being in the service of others.

80
00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:41,680
Right. And did you go straight into the fire service from school?

81
00:08:41,680 --> 00:08:50,640
I did. I got out of high school, had moved out of my house relatively early as far as

82
00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:57,360
what typically people do, which these days you see young men and women living in their houses at 28

83
00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:04,800
to 30 years old. I had moved out of my house when I was 17 and finished high school living in my car

84
00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:11,360
and went working for Lowe's when Lowe's first started becoming very prominent here in Florida

85
00:09:12,560 --> 00:09:19,760
and decided that as much as I love my family at Lowe's, I just wasn't, didn't see myself long term

86
00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:26,240
there. So I signed up for a fire academy about a year after getting out of high school. And

87
00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:33,840
it just seemed at the time the path, although there were struggles with it, it seemed like a path

88
00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:38,640
that was appropriate. You look at everybody else, it was going to four years of college and then

89
00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:42,800
were unemployed when they left. To me, fire school was kind of that no brainer, like they're going

90
00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:46,560
to teach me a trade. I'm going to get to get into a career that my heart is pulling me towards,

91
00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:57,120
and I'm employable. And this was the pre-911 day so that there wasn't that long line of firefighters

92
00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:03,680
seeking jobs. So I went in right after high school, had a little struggle through

93
00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:18,160
fire academy. About four weeks before state came in to test us and I had a female gate valve, a

94
00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:23,760
swivel split and eject a three inch big old brass-elk-arp male coupling and hit me in the jaw

95
00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:27,760
on the training grounds and broke my mandible maxilla left orbit and knocked out on my teeth.

96
00:10:28,560 --> 00:10:32,720
So I can tell you one thing, the only thing you don't want to do is chew on a fire hose. And I

97
00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:37,440
always laugh, we look at our SOPs now and say, well, you have to wear a helmet. And I look at

98
00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:42,800
our traditional Carnes fire helmets, steeped in that mysticism of firefighting. And I look at it

99
00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:47,360
now with that painful perspective looking back on why in the heck don't we wear motorcycle helmets?

100
00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:56,080
Those helmets don't do a damn thing for our face. But yeah, so it was kind of a

101
00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:04,720
really an early precursor that I didn't draw the intelligence from until much later in my career

102
00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:12,160
of how dangerous our job is. And you wake up and I woke up in St. Mary's. It knocked me out cold

103
00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:17,680
for a few days and I woke up in the same hospital as my daughter. My daughter was in NICU. She was

104
00:11:17,680 --> 00:11:24,880
born at 25 weeks. So she was a little tiny preemie. She weighed about 11 ounces. Fit her in the palm

105
00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:30,400
of my hand. I got a pretty neat picture of her in the palm of my hand. But she was in the NICU and

106
00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:37,520
I was in the ICU, both of us in a bay. So it was kind of one of those moments where you say, am I

107
00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:42,640
going to sit here on the flat on my back or am I going to get my ass out of this hospital and get

108
00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:48,720
back on the firegrounds? Because it was a scary moment. Back when I went to fire school, I think

109
00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:55,040
the whole dang program was less than $1,500. And it was all the money we had when we went in.

110
00:11:55,600 --> 00:12:02,480
So it was one of those things where you're very surreal. Like do I put myself back out there and

111
00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:08,880
finish my fire school? I needed a job. We didn't have enough money even to pay for the gas in the

112
00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:14,480
car and I dang sure wasn't going to be able to pay for our rent and our little tiny one-bedroom

113
00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:20,640
apartment if I didn't finish my fire academy and get a job. We were exhausting all of our funds

114
00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:25,040
that we had just to get into fire academy. So it was that scary moment and that drive.

115
00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:31,040
I look back now and especially when I look back to a lot of other firefighters that always put

116
00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:36,160
their family and put their community first before they put their individual health, that's how we're

117
00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:43,280
hardwired. It's not by choice, it's by design. So we had to kind of persuade the surgery team

118
00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:50,560
with my jaw wired shut to let me go in and do the state big three, which then the state test is a

119
00:12:50,560 --> 00:12:55,280
heck of a lot more intensive now. All we had to do was show that we could put on an SCBA and under,

120
00:12:55,280 --> 00:13:00,560
I think you had 90 seconds, you pull a minute man in less than a minute or two minutes and spray

121
00:13:00,560 --> 00:13:04,400
down three cones and throw a ladder and congratulations, you're a firefighter.

122
00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:13,280
But when I did it and I put the SCBA mask back on, I ended up refracturing my jaw because I had no

123
00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:19,280
teeth in my head and my head was all wired shut and had 40 something screws in my mandible and

124
00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:26,640
a couple bars and when I put the old elephant trunk SCBA on, it split my jaw and I started spitting up

125
00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:33,520
clots. But I finished the test and I was able to get hired in Indian River County shortly thereafter

126
00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:40,240
and fortunately was able to have an apartment to bring my daughter home to. So it was definitely

127
00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:48,240
flying by the seat of your pants going, wow, how much will God lay out in front of you type path

128
00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:53,840
and the answer is he always lays out just enough. Okay, so we need a backtrack on that whole thing.

129
00:13:53,840 --> 00:14:00,320
So just to show how much that you wanted to be a firefighter and serve your community, you were

130
00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:07,600
living in a tiny one-bedroom apartment, you had a prematurely born daughter, you had your face

131
00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:16,400
smashed out by a piece of fire equipment and then you still put all that gear on even though you

132
00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:21,600
weren't completely healed and took your state test. Yeah, we had to go in and talk to the

133
00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:28,400
maxifacial surgeon and the team there in Palm Beach who basically made me sign a hold harmless.

134
00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:31,600
We went and told them like, look, the state fire marshal's office, I've only been out of the

135
00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:38,160
hospital maybe three and a half weeks and they said if I don't take my test, I lose my money,

136
00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:44,480
I lose my 1500 and I have to take fire school next year and I was in the summer class and they said

137
00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:50,160
I have to wait a year and he told the doctor like, listen, if I don't take this test, I don't have a

138
00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:54,000
home, I don't have a place to bring my daughter home to, I wouldn't be able to pay for my car.

139
00:14:55,280 --> 00:15:00,000
I had this little tiny beat up Grand Prix that was hanging on by a wing and a prayer. I'm like,

140
00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:07,360
I need this. I know you guys don't want to medically take on that expanded liability profile here,

141
00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:12,400
but I need to take this test. We basically had to scream and yell and beg and plead

142
00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:18,160
to the physicians to basically say, we're signing it away. If you're going to go and take this test,

143
00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:24,640
we take no responsibility to what could happen to you. We had a lot of hurdles to overcome to

144
00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:29,920
even let that state fire marshal let me on the dang fire grounds. Of course, the college at

145
00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:35,200
the time was a community college. The class was held in a double wide trailer that was

146
00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:42,480
put together out in the middle of a field. That was before the state college became one of the

147
00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:47,440
leading fire colleges in the area. They didn't even want me on the fire grounds. They're like,

148
00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:52,480
man, you got your face wired up and your head, I'm a skinny guy and my head was still the size of a

149
00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:59,520
bowling ball at that time. They're like, just come back next to your kid. That wasn't for me.

150
00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:07,280
All I could think about was my little girl and having a place to bring her home to. It was a

151
00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:13,680
unique struggle. It really, really truly was. I'm very fortunate my family was supportive.

152
00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:22,720
I really appreciate good plastic surgeons and maxiofacial surgeons. I've got 20 something odd

153
00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:27,040
implants and all my teeth in a mason jar here in my bedroom.

154
00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:33,120
Well, that's incredible. I think that's just a huge testament to, obviously, you having a

155
00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:40,720
complete grasp on your why, why you are a fireman. I think that's also behind some of the reasons why

156
00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:49,120
some of the conditions in police and fire and EMS, these employers take advantage of these men and

157
00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:53,680
women because when you have someone that's so driven to do a career like you are right now,

158
00:16:53,680 --> 00:17:01,760
then it almost allows a platform for us to be taken for granted and make some of the working

159
00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:07,920
conditions, the hours that we worked to become unhealthy. It's something that we're going to

160
00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:12,880
talk about later, but I think that's such a testament to the spirit of a true fireman,

161
00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:18,160
true policeman, true medic is that come hell or high water, you know that you were put on this

162
00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:27,920
earth to do this job and serve your community. I couldn't agree more that balance for firefighters

163
00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:39,440
of passion, pride and purpose. One of our strongest honorable attributes can really allow us to

164
00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:46,080
positively alter the lives around us, but it's also that passion, pride and purpose when any one of

165
00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:53,040
those is negatively affected by injury, whether it be mental, physical, spiritual, your career

166
00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:57,840
and calling, when we damage those three very core values to all firefighters and law enforcement

167
00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:05,360
officers, we become to our own detriment, do we really become harmful to ourselves. As you said

168
00:18:05,360 --> 00:18:11,280
beautifully, a lot of times our long hours and the employers taking advantage of monopolizing on

169
00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:16,560
that sometimes can be our own demise. Yeah, absolutely and we'll definitely delve into that

170
00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:23,040
further. So just pulling back for a moment, you said that you were not a big lad as we say in

171
00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:29,040
England and as you know, we've seen each other face to face. I am not blessed with the linebackers

172
00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:34,240
physique myself either. So when you were an athlete when you were younger, what got you through the

173
00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:42,720
physical demands of the fire school? Well, I was played football in high school, not very well,

174
00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:50,480
but I did play and I've always been a runner. So fortunately my cardiac health was there and I think

175
00:18:50,480 --> 00:19:00,640
that passion, that drive to complete what we set out to do, that failure wasn't in my vocabulary

176
00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:05,280
and I think that's what truly, truly helped it because I mean when you walk into that

177
00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:13,520
predominantly type A, very male dominated industry as we are and we're trying to integrate that it's

178
00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:19,120
about no matter what your hardware is, your passion is what counts. So when I got there and

179
00:19:19,120 --> 00:19:23,440
I saw these other firefighters that were really truly some massive dudes compared to my little,

180
00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:30,640
you know, I was a little 135 pound bean pole going good lord, you know, I mean you look at

181
00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:35,600
the quintessential firefighter, you know, they all look like Kurt Russell, you know, and you know,

182
00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:43,360
just stout dudes and then there was me. So there were some struggles we had to overcome. I was very

183
00:19:43,360 --> 00:19:52,000
fortunate that the passion overrode that. I was the squad leader and always pushed harder and further

184
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:57,920
than my body was telling me to but I think that helped me get through. Right, yeah, I know I've

185
00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:01,840
several of the special operators that I've interviewed when I asked them, you know, what

186
00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:08,000
would make the perfect Navy SEAL or you know, the perfect green beret, the answer always is never

187
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:13,520
the physical side, it's always the mental. So obviously what you went through with and then,

188
00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:18,400
you know, the injuries that you had and you still completed your mission as it were, your mental

189
00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:26,640
toughness definitely, you know, outweighed whatever physical deficits you had. Well, I

190
00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:37,600
believe and agree with that. I think with any injury or any obstacle, you know, I've encountered

191
00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:42,400
some people along the way, especially with what we'll delve into here in a bit about mental

192
00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:47,920
wellness and changing the culture and what that means for firefighters and the positive life.

193
00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:53,360
There's also something that happens along the way where when you do something that seems to be

194
00:20:54,400 --> 00:21:00,640
out of the ordinary, where people say, man, you should give up or you shouldn't do this or

195
00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:04,960
you're going to make waves or you need to sit quietly instead of saying, look, you know,

196
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:10,720
we can overcome these obstacles. I've seen people say that your passion will get you in trouble

197
00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:16,560
and when I look at that comment now and I've seen that in the fire service, whether someone's,

198
00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:23,600
you know, really striving to study more or, you know, get promoted or invent a new way to do

199
00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:29,440
an old idea in a safer, more improved fashion, a lot of times the fire service will look at that

200
00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:32,480
and go, you know, look at this guy, what's he doing? You know, his passion is going to bite him

201
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:41,680
in the rear. I disagree. I think that passion creates validity for you and allows you to have,

202
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:47,760
as you said perfectly, mental toughness and really allows you to deal with struggles.

203
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:57,280
And I didn't realize that early on in my career. To me, it was just as simple as putting your shoes

204
00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:03,680
on. Okay, I got a broken jaw, getting ready to lose my home. I haven't even held my daughter and

205
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:07,520
she's been on this earth for two and a half months. She's still sitting in an incubator and

206
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:14,880
in the NICU, but the simple decision was get off your ass and get your uniform on and finish fire

207
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:20,640
school and get a job because that's what you have to do and falling short of that is not an option.

208
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:25,360
So didn't even have time to really sit down and look at the fear of it until later. I don't think

209
00:22:25,360 --> 00:22:33,440
I had that emotional contact point until I think I'd been on the job about a year and it hit me one

210
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:38,480
day, you know, coming home from work. We just bought our first home, you know, got out of the

211
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:45,520
apartment and I remember taking my uniform off and, you know, I still had the scars on my face. I

212
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:50,640
hadn't done any acid peels yet. I didn't even have my teeth yet. My teeth would pop out and I'd put

213
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:57,760
them in a tray and I remember just sitting there in the mirror and just crying going, man, we almost

214
00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:02,960
didn't succeed if they hadn't picked me, if I hadn't answered the right questions in the interview,

215
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:09,920
if I hadn't tested for the physical agility of testing and really gave it all I had to shine,

216
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:15,360
you know, because when they hired me, you had 100 something odd applicants, you know, and they

217
00:23:15,360 --> 00:23:22,160
hired, I think out of our 100 something applicants, they hired myself and one other guy and we weren't

218
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:27,840
the, you know, volunteers that had been there for, you know, 10 years or the guy that was the fishing

219
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:32,800
buddy with the battalion chief or, you know, the guy that, you know, got the bid and painted the

220
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:38,720
station there so he was sure to get hired, you know, to us we were nobody. Oh, and the other part,

221
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:45,760
you know, how the good old boy system works, you know, the reality of getting hired in a county where

222
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:51,760
your upper echelon and brass are instructors at the State Fire College, you know, and they look at,

223
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:56,320
well, here's the guy that broke his jaw, we don't want to hire him. Or the opposite, here's the guy

224
00:23:56,320 --> 00:24:01,280
that broke his jaw, we should definitely hire him. Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, you have that huge

225
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:06,720
range of emotions that happen. So it didn't really even hit me until about a year later coming home

226
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:11,200
and our, you know, our house, we didn't even have furniture really and yet, you know, we got a couch

227
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:19,040
and a bed type thing and eating off two plates that it really hit me going, wow, that the drive and

228
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:26,560
that sense of purpose, you know, it almost didn't happen. It almost didn't work. So, and at that

229
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:33,360
point in time, you know, a firefighter crying, damn sure wasn't accepted in our culture, you know, so

230
00:24:33,360 --> 00:24:39,280
I didn't tell anybody, who do you talk to about having that human side of it? Yeah, yeah. Well,

231
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:44,560
I think we just want to underline this as well. We've all heard these people that said, oh, I

232
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:50,720
didn't get hired because they were looking for this race, they were looking for women, they were

233
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:54,320
looking for this instead of owning the fact that, okay, I didn't get hired because I didn't train

234
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:58,080
enough for the physical agility, I didn't get hired because I didn't ace the written, I didn't

235
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:03,200
get hired because I didn't do my interview 15 times over in front of a bunch of strangers until

236
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:08,240
I had it down pat, you know, and I think that, you know, your story would be a great baseline,

237
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:13,920
you know, if, if this gentleman can get his face smashed off by a piece of hose appliance,

238
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:19,440
and finish fire school with no teeth in his jaw, wild shot, and then get hired,

239
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:27,600
then your excuses are invalid. Absolutely. I think there's a huge difference between a

240
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:38,160
human being that says the word if, and somebody that says the word when. And the thought process

241
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:43,760
of, oh, this is going to be great if I get hired. No, this is what we're going to do when I get

242
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:50,560
hired. This is what we're going to do when we succeed, not if. And I think about that even now,

243
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:56,320
like what we're doing with the Health and Safety Collaborative and with working with adjusting

244
00:25:56,320 --> 00:26:02,560
the culture and the fire service for the better and improvement. There is no if. It is when.

245
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:10,720
And because we will. And I think that you find a really, really high number, a high quantitative

246
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:14,960
number of firefighters and law enforcement officers that are hardwired that way. There is no if. It's

247
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:20,960
a when because they have the drive to succeed. Yeah, absolutely. It's a positive affirmation as

248
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:26,720
well. If you believe it, it will manifest. All right. Well, I'm assuming then, Dustin,

249
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:31,440
I'm being totally sarcastic when I say this next sentence, that God had decided you've seen enough

250
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:34,960
trauma and you never had another injury in the fire service. Is that correct?

251
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:42,240
That is way off. If I have one more flight on the Trauma Hawk, I get a free windbreaker and baseball

252
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:48,880
cap from Rocky Mountain Holding Company out in Colorado who controls the Trauma Hawk. No, that's

253
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:58,960
definitely not the case. And you hear people say, man, I wish that hadn't happened. And I look back

254
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:07,520
lovingly at the lessons learned. And I say this cautiously. And I remember the first time that I

255
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:16,960
said this and my wife was there. We were talking to a group of 500, 600 firefighters and administrators

256
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:23,600
and executive fire officers at a conference. And we were talking about when I was blown up on the

257
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:28,960
fire boat, when I was burned. And I remember saying, I said the words and it almost seemed

258
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:38,800
surreal and I had to revisit it, that as much as I don't wish that sort of pain upon anybody to have

259
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:47,120
the skin off your body burnt, especially while your crew watches it happen and can't do anything

260
00:27:47,120 --> 00:27:53,280
about it or the physical pain of having your skin being ripped off your body every single morning

261
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:59,680
from nine o'clock to 11 in the burn unit. And the emotional pain of watching your wife and daughter

262
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:06,720
and family cry and truly hurt as they sit there and watch you tied down to a bed as they're ripping

263
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:12,160
the burnt tissue off of you. And the psychological after effects of that that happens to a firefighter.

264
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:17,840
I look back at all of that as much as I wish I could take away the physical pain that we had to

265
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:27,120
walk through. I truly feel blessed for the path, even though there were some really wild injuries

266
00:28:27,120 --> 00:28:31,200
along the way. And firefighters and law enforcement officers, we get into this job and one of the

267
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:36,880
things that we never really look at and the reason we're trying to change that with the Health and

268
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:40,560
Safety Collaborative is, my God, we can get killed doing this job, ladies and gentlemen.

269
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:50,240
I think of the amount of times I have woken up on the flat of my back in ICU because of this job.

270
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:59,520
And I'm thankful for that path. But yes, I have been injured multiple times

271
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:09,440
in the line of duty, as a lot of our brothers and sisters are. And the more recent injury,

272
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:16,960
I've had a few scuffs and scrapes and broken bones and things like that on the job. But the

273
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:27,920
most recent one was about three years ago. I was working on the fire boat in River County

274
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:36,800
on our 28 foot or 25 foot Challenger Boston Whaler doing a routine swap out of a pony pump, a little

275
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:43,920
portable 500 GPM fire pump. It sits on the deck and sucks through the hull. And as we know,

276
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:48,240
one of the most hostile environments on earth may be a scorned woman, but the second one is a salt

277
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:55,680
water environment. And the salt eats the pump up and we had to replace it. And we've been working

278
00:29:55,680 --> 00:30:00,400
on the boat for about three, four days in the bay. It wasn't in the water, it was up on the trailer,

279
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:06,560
had all our safety protocols in, bay doors up, hatches open, power disconnected, trailer tilted

280
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:12,800
up a few degrees, all of those things. And I was using an electronic screwdriver, a drill,

281
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:19,200
with a Phillips head bit in it. And I'd already taken three of the screws out from the bottom of

282
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:25,280
the deck of the boat laying in the area in the center that even before this injury was named

283
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:31,680
the coffin. I think we should name it something else, but it was it was it still is named the

284
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:38,160
coffin. And I was laying down so you know, my crew can only see my my knees because you have to tuck

285
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:42,960
towards the back of the boat underneath the deck, probably three, four foot. And I'd taken three of

286
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:47,280
the screws out and handed it up to my crew on the deck where they were all standing above me watching

287
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:53,200
and pretty narrow that box is actually about the size of a coffin. You know, about 10 foot in length

288
00:30:53,200 --> 00:31:00,320
and two and a half to three foot in width and two foot deep. And I went to go take the fourth screw

289
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:09,120
out and the drill up against the gel coat. We had no idea that the one of the fuel tanks, the port

290
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:15,360
fuel tank had been compromised and had been leaking fuel, which we found out post investigation for a

291
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:25,760
long period of time. And it had saturated the foam and that entire nacelle of the boat and where the

292
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:31,360
drill was, it just found a thin spot in the gel coat. And, you know, bear in mind, not using a

293
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,800
drill bit. You know, there were some people ask, Oh, you're drilling into a boat. No, I was using

294
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:41,920
a Phillips screw gun taken out four inch screws run up through the deck from the bottom to the top.

295
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:46,480
And another crew member was up top with a little 10 millimeter box wrench holding on to the nylock

296
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:55,840
nut. And I went ahead and squeezed the trigger and it's a hell of a thing. Firefighters have,

297
00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:00,480
we know what the sound of ignition is. You know, you hear it when you like the grill.

298
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:05,920
But it's a hell of a thing to be trapped in the boat, squeeze that trigger and hear that sound

299
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:15,360
and watch a wall of fire roll out on top of you just to watch your eyelids and your eyelashes

300
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:27,120
singe and to hear it and to smell it. Watch the skin on your arms just drop off. And I just can't

301
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:34,000
remember hearing my crew saying, get out. And I couldn't get out. And me screaming, put me out.

302
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:44,240
And they couldn't. And I remember hearing one of my guys say it didn't work, you know, and

303
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:52,320
I revisit that. I had revisited that a lot when I was having nightmares. You know, our,

304
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:56,640
as all government agencies, low bid the hell out of everything. We had just had new extinguishers

305
00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:02,480
put on the boat and the extinguisher didn't work. They pulled the pin and nothing happened.

306
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:10,000
Oh, God. And I remember the look of the guy holding the extinguisher's face when nothing happened.

307
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:17,840
I jumped out of the coffin there still on fire and liquid fire underneath me. And I jumped over

308
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:25,120
the gunnel. Bear in mind the boat sitting on a trailer. And Boston Whaler makes a stout boat.

309
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:28,160
They're way up in the air, especially when they're on a triple axle trailer in the bay.

310
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:33,520
And I jumped up on the gun and I jumped off the boat, took about a 12 foot fall and made a nice

311
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:44,240
splatting sound on the concrete when I hit. The engineer that was on duty that day, big bear of a

312
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:49,440
man, wonderful heart and soul on this guy, but just a massive guy jumped out on top of me and

313
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:58,400
tried to put me out. I walked out in the bay coughing and hacking. It felt like I drank pool acid.

314
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:04,880
I looked in a mirror. There was our personal vehicles are parked out behind the station.

315
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:10,800
And I looked in the rear view mirror. I remember pushing on the rear view mirror the wrong way to

316
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:16,240
fold it in so I could look and just saw the skin hanging off my face and my hair melted to me and

317
00:34:16,240 --> 00:34:22,480
my lips were sticky and like he had glued them with a glue stick, like a children's paste stick.

318
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:28,160
I looked at my arms and there were these big fluid filled sacks just hanging off of me.

319
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:40,480
And I got love the medic that was on the rescue that day. He was there with the drugs immediately.

320
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:47,040
Just the foresight to be able to have the fentanyl ready to go. He looked at me. I remember

321
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:54,240
all the crew around me in dead silence, horrified. He's got his IV and I'm sitting down on the

322
00:34:54,240 --> 00:35:01,440
concrete and his hand was shaking and he's getting ready to stick me in the AC, but you can't even

323
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:07,840
see it because it's just his charred flesh. I'm like, brother, just go for it. He's like,

324
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:16,320
and I'm like, brother, just go for it. I found that there's not enough fentanyl in the world

325
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:24,080
to appropriately treat a burn patient. The only way to regulate it is not on a scale of zero to

326
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:30,960
10, but just I can tell all the medics out there, just push that crap until you can just start

327
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:36,640
messing with the respiratory drive because you don't have enough drugs to put that pain out.

328
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:45,760
I thought I knew what pain was. I went through a hell of a time with my jaw and the subsequent

329
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:52,240
10, 12 years of getting oral surgery almost monthly between skin grafts and bone grafts

330
00:35:52,240 --> 00:35:58,240
and hardware replacement and implants and you get used to it. I thought I had a high tolerance for

331
00:35:58,240 --> 00:36:07,440
pain, but there's nothing like having the flesh just singed off your body. That is one of our organs

332
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:14,640
that I believe as human beings that we truly under appreciate and undervalue. It's kind of like when

333
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:21,200
they say nobody ever realizes how much they need their big toe until they hurt it. I never realized

334
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:30,080
how important our skin was until it was gone. They flew me from the local hospital there to

335
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:38,640
Longwood, which was a trauma center. I remember landing. My wife, we live in Fort Pierce, which

336
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:44,800
is really, really close to the hospital. My wife beat the trauma hawk. We flew from Vero, which

337
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:53,760
isn't far. She beat him there. She parked right next to the LZ. I remember the helicopter landing

338
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:58,640
and seeing her. I was just trying to tell her I was okay, but I couldn't really talk. My voice was

339
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:06,080
it's amazing what happens to your voice after you get your face burnt, mouth burnt.

340
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:16,800
I just wanted to tell her I was okay. I just saw the tears running down her face. They wheeled me

341
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:25,680
into the trauma unit there. I remember hearing the doctor screaming at the flight medic because I

342
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:30,720
guess the trauma surgeon didn't really care that they flew me to a trauma center instead of a burn

343
00:37:30,720 --> 00:37:36,720
center. I remember him yelling and they just hit me with some more fentanyl. I remember hearing

344
00:37:36,720 --> 00:37:42,240
him yell, if this asshole dies in my trauma unit, it's on you. I remember reaching over and grabbing

345
00:37:42,240 --> 00:37:51,520
him and my hand was sticky. I'm like, you know, doc, I can hear you. Man, what's the matter with you?

346
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:58,880
They ended up declining. My SAT started dropping significantly. It's weird, you know, you have

347
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:02,880
medical knowledge and you do that job long enough and you look up at the monitor and go,

348
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:08,400
whoo, 68. That's not a number I want to see for my saturation level.

349
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:10,960
You don't want to be well educated when you're looking at your own monitor.

350
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:18,880
No, no. You're like, okay, sinus tachy and BP is dropping and my SATs are what?

351
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:23,680
Hey, doc, I kind of like to read. Is there any way you can maybe get me some O's here?

352
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:30,880
I don't want to bake what brain cells I've got left. They ended up flying me from Longwood to

353
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:35,840
the burn unit and I can tell you the flight medics were amazing. They really, really, truly were.

354
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:41,920
They did a fantastic job dumping every bit of drug they legally could in me.

355
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:46,080
They ended up taking me over to Disney. I got to watch. I remember seeing the fireworks over

356
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:54,160
Disney in Orlando as we were circling into the burn unit and sitting in the trauma unit and them

357
00:38:55,520 --> 00:39:01,280
doing what they had to do. It's a hell of a thing to wake up multiple times in your career on the

358
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:05,440
flight of your back with a tube in your mouth. So was that ORMC they took you to?

359
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:10,240
They did. Okay. And I was like, okay, I'm going to go to the hospital. I'm going to go to the

360
00:39:10,240 --> 00:39:17,280
hospital. They did. Okay. And I can tell you that Dr. Chadwick Smith and Dr. Susan Smith and all of

361
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:23,040
the angels at that burn unit are some of the most dynamically beautiful souls you will ever encounter.

362
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:28,720
You know, as firefighters, you know, we fight fire, but we never really address what the hell

363
00:39:28,720 --> 00:39:36,480
happens when you get burnt by what you fight. And the simple things like, you know, knowing why burn

364
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:40,400
patients don't talk to one another when they're still a victim. They haven't gone from a burn

365
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:45,440
victim to a burn survivor yet. And I remember my dad walk it in who has a unique sense of humor,

366
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:52,880
really pissed poor timing on it, but a unique sense of humor. And I was on day two of my treatment.

367
00:39:52,880 --> 00:40:00,960
And OFD had been amazing. They sent one of the officers, Garrett Lampe, they were there every

368
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:06,800
single day from station, I believe it was station one, station one or station 13. I can't remember

369
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:10,640
the number off top of my head, but I've got hundreds of letters from them, amazing group of

370
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:14,960
men. I was able to sit down and dine with them there at the station when I, you know, physically

371
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:21,360
was able, but they come every day to tend to my family, to be there to sit in the waiting room,

372
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:29,040
to be there by my wife and daughter's side. And it's just really a testament to what firefighters

373
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:36,400
are capable of, of exercising love, the absence of judgment to be there for one another.

374
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:42,640
And I remember my dad coming in and saying, son, did you make any friends today? Did you talk to

375
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:47,920
any of the other patients? Of course, my wife's sitting there and I'm like, well,

376
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:53,360
well, no, and it hadn't hit me yet. You know, but I said, no, dad. And he goes, yeah, I hear that the

377
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:59,280
burn patients, they really stick together. And I'm like, dad, you're such an ass. Like that's not

378
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:06,240
even funny. What the hell's the matter with you? But, you know, with the comedic side of it,

379
00:41:06,240 --> 00:41:11,600
you know, aside, we burn patients don't have anything to say to one another when they're in

380
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:19,520
that setting. And there's a reason because there's nothing that has to be said. It's all done with a

381
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:26,800
quick look. There's no medication. There's no mechanism. There's no tool that has been devised

382
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:33,520
yet that overrides the physical pain. You know, my time was nine o'clock in the morning. You know,

383
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:39,760
and your entire time there is spent trying to move because if you hold still the scars,

384
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:45,520
your skin starts healing in one position and it's not good. And you're just weeping collagen out of

385
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:51,920
every pore of your body. And all you do is you smell like Basitracin and Silvodyne, which I still

386
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:58,960
can't stand the smell of that crap. The subconscious response of trying to protect me, I suppose.

387
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:04,640
But I knew at nine o'clock every morning that the nurses were going to come in

388
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:12,480
with those dang wash rags that felt like about 10 grit sandpaper and popsicle sticks. I still

389
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:17,760
can't stand a popsicle stick. My wife is amazing about having ice cream with no popsicle sticks.

390
00:42:18,720 --> 00:42:22,960
But they come in there and they use the damn popsicle sticks and they dope you up and they

391
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:31,200
hold you down and they start digging. And all I would do is stare at the clock because there

392
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:37,280
was only two thoughts. I've either got an hour and a half to two hours of them doing this and you just

393
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:42,640
stare at the clock and beg for God's mercy or they're done and you don't have a moment's

394
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:47,440
relief because you stare at the clock and know it's coming again tomorrow in 23 hours and 59 minutes.

395
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:54,960
I remember going through the process, going through the grafts.

396
00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:00,320
The firefighters have a great way of screwing with people even in times of pain.

397
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:06,640
We finished the skin grafting process and Dr. Susan Smith and Chadwick Smith who is the surgeon,

398
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:12,640
they're the best in their field. Amazing what they do for people. Something else I was surprised by

399
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:18,560
is there wasn't any female nurses there in the burn unit. I had one that had come over and God

400
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:23,440
loved her soul. I didn't know it but I grabbed a hold of the poor girl's neck while she was

401
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:31,440
de-breeding and scrubbing. I asked later, I apologized to her. I was doped up on all kinds

402
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:36,400
of medication and obviously a very visceral response to physical pain when I grabbed a hold

403
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:45,600
of her. But I had asked why is it all male nurses? The answer surprised me and it surprises a lot of

404
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:50,960
firefighters and people when I talk to them about this part. They said because the female nurse,

405
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:56,960
which my wife is a female nurse, they're too compassionate and too gentle. The male nurses

406
00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:04,240
just basically grip it and rip it and get it done. I was surprised by that. I remember the young

407
00:44:04,240 --> 00:44:09,360
lady that came in and she was. She was very gentle and took her time but when you're de-breeding,

408
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:14,640
you just got to get in there scrub and get it over with. All you do is tell the patient one,

409
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:20,400
two, three and you rip the skin. You do it until their sats drop and then you give them a break to

410
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:25,600
breathe. Their sats come up and then you rip another piece of skin off. Oh my god, it sounds

411
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:29,760
absolutely horrendous. Yeah, definitely not something you want to do for a holiday.

412
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:37,520
But Dr. Chadwick Smith did my skin grafts. They ended up xenografting. We had discussed it with

413
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:43,760
our family, the benefits, the pros and cons of autografting, xenografting. I remember when I woke

414
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:48,320
up, the firefighters have the ability to screw with anybody and the doctor came in and asked me

415
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:54,960
and for those of you who don't know xenografting, they use pigskin. I remember coming out of it and

416
00:44:54,960 --> 00:45:00,000
I was still pretty loopy on sedatives and the doctor came in to follow up to ask me how I was

417
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:06,640
doing and I messed with him. I said, Doc, I can't believe you did this to me. I talk to Chadwick now

418
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:11,920
here when we go for follow-ups and things and he's lightened way up but he was very, very serious,

419
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:16,960
very good at what he does but he was very serious. I said, man, I can't believe you did this to me.

420
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:22,480
I said, this is pigskin, right? He goes, well, yes. I said, I can't believe you did this. You

421
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:29,280
didn't read my chart? He goes, what do you mean? I said, well, I'm Jewish. You should have seen

422
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:34,960
that man's face. He went pale and all he could do is grab the chart and just go, oh dear God.

423
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:42,720
I'm like, I'm just screwing with you, Doc. We're good. We did the grafting and when we started

424
00:45:42,720 --> 00:45:48,720
after being there for way longer than I would have liked to have been, the feeling of being a

425
00:45:48,720 --> 00:45:55,600
burn patient, ringing the bell to leave. I remember the first time I felt the sunshine and walking out.

426
00:45:56,720 --> 00:46:00,160
The doctors did something interesting. They said, the physical care because you still have to go

427
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:05,760
home and you change your bandages every day for several weeks, which is a painful process in itself.

428
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:11,760
Everything you touch is greasy because you're just weeping that damn collagen,

429
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:17,360
which is the body's response to healing from that injury. Your nerves are starting to fire again.

430
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:24,320
You've got a lot of nerve damage underneath your tissue. You go on gabapentin, which knocks you

431
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:29,200
out, makes you loopy. If you're not on it, you have no control over your damn arms. You throw

432
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:34,560
glasses across the room. You're twitching like you're having a seizure as your body's trying to

433
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:39,440
remap and relearn things. You go through physical therapy, just the exercise of moving the tissue

434
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:48,960
is a crappy process in itself. The doctors had said, we really want to encourage you

435
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:54,800
to talk to a therapist. I'm like, well, I go to plenty of therapists. I'm going to my physical

436
00:46:54,800 --> 00:47:01,280
therapist and the OT therapy and all those kind of things. They said, no, we need you to talk to

437
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:09,520
somebody like a psychologist. Firefighters do a fantastic job as we talked about earlier, ignoring

438
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:15,120
and putting others first. In my mind, I'm fine. I'm a firefighter. I can handle this.

439
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:20,560
There's no psychological injury to this. I'm physical. What I can see is all that matters.

440
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:31,040
I never went to talk to a psychologist. I remember Dr. Smith, Susan Smith, heartbroken. I told her,

441
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:36,800
I said, I want to get back to work. I need to provide for my family. I just took the test and

442
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:41,520
was at the top of the list for promotion. They're never going to promote somebody on workers' comp.

443
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:49,360
I need to get back to work. I need to show them I can do this. I ignored the psychological support

444
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:54,080
that was offered. I remember the tears running down her face. She had just been in Boston

445
00:47:54,880 --> 00:48:01,440
with the firefighters that got burned up in the basement fire. One of the firefighters that died

446
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:08,640
in that fire was previously one of her burn patients. I remember her telling me, she goes,

447
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:16,000
you firefighters are a pain in the ass. You get an injury like this and what's the first thing you

448
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:24,160
want to do? You want to go right back in. What's the matter with you? In my mind at the time,

449
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:30,720
it was I just need to get back to my family, show my crew I'm okay, show me in some way that I'm okay.

450
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:40,160
The first introduction to the psychological side of our job

451
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:47,120
happened. I went back just eight weeks after being released from the hospital when the physicians and

452
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:52,480
professionals said, we don't want you to go back at all, but if you're going to, you need to take a

453
00:48:52,480 --> 00:49:04,960
year. I went back in such a fraction of the time. I still had bandages on me. I remember walking in

454
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:11,120
the bay, the same very bay that I was burnt in. I walk in and the crew's all there. Firemen being

455
00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:18,080
wise asses, they had an industrial Sam size bag of pork rind in a bag and they made a giant bacon

456
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:24,640
man for me because the pig skin, they had that ready on the table, which my wife still does not

457
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:30,400
for obvious reasons find any humor in burn graph jokes, which fortunately firefighters are smart

458
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:37,200
enough not to mess with the redheaded Irish woman. I walked into the bay and the tones went off. We

459
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:43,920
were there celebrating he's back, we're all okay type thing, like that near miss feeling we were

460
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:54,720
celebrating. The tones went off and I didn't hear the tones. I heard the sound because I was standing

461
00:49:54,720 --> 00:50:01,280
in the exact spot where the boat used to be. The boat wasn't even back. I beat the boat back to

462
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:07,120
work. The boat was still at Boston Whaler torn apart in a bunch of pieces, but charred deck and

463
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:14,640
melted eyes and glass. They were trying to figure out what happened, but I was standing where it was

464
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:24,960
and I heard the sound of the ignition. I heard the echo of my screams when I was in the burn unit and

465
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:30,960
I didn't tell anybody. How do you tell that? Your brothers and sisters like,

466
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:36,000
holy cow, did you guys just hear that? I didn't want to say anything because I had just spent

467
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:43,440
the last five days convincing my wife to let me go back to work. I just left my home with my wife

468
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:52,160
and I just left my home with tears running down my wife's face. Then I went back. So I convinced

469
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:56,560
myself that man, I'm not going to tell anybody. I just heard the ignition sound. Grab your gear.

470
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:04,320
Don't be a pussy. Get on a truck and let's go. Because that's what we were taught. That's how

471
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:09,280
we were hardwired, right? That's how it was acceptable. You don't show emotions in the fire

472
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:17,040
because you're not going to tell anybody. So I got on the truck and I set that precedent not to tell

473
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:25,040
anybody. I guess I kind of hoped it would go away. You get ready to go to work and you start the

474
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:30,000
truck up and your starter makes a weird noise so you shut the truck off. Then you start it up again

475
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:36,560
and the sound went away. You're like, it must be nothing. I almost hoped that it was that. Whatever

476
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:42,000
just happened when those tones went off that it would go away. So I didn't need to look at it again

477
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:45,360
because it was just a rattle under their hood. I justified it. Oh man, that just happened because

478
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:50,480
I was my first shift back. I just got to get back at a swing of things. It'll go away. I don't need

479
00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:59,520
to worry about it. It didn't go away. It got worse over about eight months. It got worse.

480
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:05,760
What would just happen when the tones would go off started to happen when the phone would ring,

481
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:11,120
when a door would close, when somebody would make a loud noise. It started happening with no prompt

482
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:20,640
at all. I would get off shift and I'd start crying on the way home and couldn't even tell anybody why.

483
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:30,480
I'm a rum and coke guy. I started drinking at noon. I started drinking at 11, 9 a.m. I started

484
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:38,560
drinking as soon as I got home from shift. I kind of had that excuse of who the hell is going to

485
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:46,000
judge me? This is my day off. This is my Friday. When I get off of my 24th shift, my B shift morning

486
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:53,600
is a Friday. I'm going to drink. My family didn't really even know how I was drinking that much.

487
00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:59,840
They thought I was recovering. I started laughing a lot more. I'm not one of those angry drunks.

488
00:52:59,840 --> 00:53:08,880
I'm a happy drunk and a quiet one. They didn't know it. I drank to feel better.

489
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:19,840
I drank to feel better. I wouldn't have nightmares. The problem that was happening

490
00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:24,560
after about five, six months of it is it wasn't nightmares anymore. It was happening when I was

491
00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:32,880
awake. I would start seeing people and kids that I'd bagged up over the years. The first time it

492
00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:42,320
happened to me, I was in the frozen food aisle at the grocery store. There was this little girl

493
00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:50,400
probably 10 years before. I remember her sitting down in the ditch. She had this little stuffed

494
00:53:50,400 --> 00:54:02,560
dog in her hands. I remember bagging her up. I remember that whole call. The mom was too drunk,

495
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:08,320
so she left the daughter driving the car. She was probably seven years old, eight years old at the

496
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:15,440
most. Her eight-year-old drove the car because mom was too drunk. The mom survived. Obviously,

497
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:21,120
it's always the drunks because they roll with it when they hit. They just relax. This little

498
00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:26,000
girl was ejected. She got t-boned at an intersection by the fairgrounds. She was faced down in the ditch

499
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:32,800
holding on to this little dog on the grass bank. It was the same dog that my daughter had. Toy

500
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:36,720
companies make millions in dogs, but it was the same one. Not a euphemism. It was the same one.

501
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:42,800
I had thought about that girl in what seemed like a lifetime. I'm in the grocery store,

502
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:46,480
and there she is, clear as day, standing there with the dog in her hand looking at me.

503
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:54,880
I'd never driven so fast. I actually ran out of the store. I actually ran.

504
00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:04,400
Drove home, and I couldn't drink enough to get it out of my head. The shitty thing is she followed

505
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:16,720
me home. I started seeing her all the time, and then I started seeing all of the other bodies.

506
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:19,760
I started making rules. Just talk to them. You'll be fine.

507
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:26,560
And I was talking to them, and they were talking back.

508
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:38,160
And eight months to the date I was born, I ran. My conscious and subconscious couldn't handle

509
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:41,360
anymore. I didn't think about my subconscious at that point. I didn't think about that until I

510
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:48,080
started going to therapy. I had a

511
00:55:48,080 --> 00:55:58,880
brain injury. I was drunk every day, and I was off. I didn't tell them I was seeing things.

512
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:08,080
I ran a call of a young man, 17-year-old young man that had burned himself. He was walking,

513
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:19,680
talking, second to third degree burn patient. He was cooking vegetable oil in the house,

514
00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:26,000
cooking french fries, and caught fire. He ran with the pot and slipped in the garage and

515
00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:33,360
coated himself. I remember pulling up on scene, giving the scene size up.

516
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:43,360
It was just another call, and here comes this young man down the driveway.

517
00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:51,840
It was me, brother. I don't mean this as an analogy. It was me in my uniform walking down.

518
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:55,120
I didn't know what the kid looked like until I visited him in the hospital two weeks later.

519
00:56:56,720 --> 00:57:02,480
It was me in my uniform the day I was burned walking down towards me. We talked with

520
00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:07,680
firefighters and law enforcement officers and our veterans when they talk about time compression.

521
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:15,520
It's very real. Time stopped. It completely and 100 percent stopped.

522
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:26,640
My battalion chief, after I'd walked in the house and I closed the door,

523
00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:31,760
I had ripped my gear off on the floor. There was no extension. I just smoked out the echo of the

524
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:37,360
dog barking and the smoke detector going off, bouncing off the walls and the tile. I ripped

525
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:44,880
my bunker gear off and just sat on the floor and cried. My battalion chief knew exactly what to do,

526
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:48,560
and he brought me home. I cried the whole way home. I cried for two weeks straight. I couldn't

527
00:57:48,560 --> 00:57:52,240
stop. James, you could have said, Dustin, I'll give you $1 million to stop crying for a minute.

528
00:57:52,240 --> 00:58:00,400
Or even tell me why you're crying. I couldn't stop. I don't remember how we got home,

529
00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:05,840
what route we took, what speed we went. I remember the look on my wife's face because the battalion

530
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:11,920
chief vehicle—and I live in a different county than I work—when your battalion chief vehicle

531
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:19,200
shows up in your driveway, that's a pretty hard hit to your wife. She just got home from work,

532
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:25,360
and she was standing in the driveway getting out of her car. Then there's my battalion chief

533
00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:29,520
looking at my wife. She had no idea I was in the vehicle. I was in the back, curled up crying.

534
00:58:34,080 --> 00:58:37,840
Lynn and I have talked about this since, but she said she thought the fire department finally

535
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:45,440
killed my ass. She goes, I finally thought it was done. I'm never going to see you again.

536
00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:49,360
They helped me out of the vehicle.

537
00:58:52,480 --> 00:59:00,400
We had, in that timeframe, our union and administration was in the middle of a pretty ugly

538
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:05,840
contract impasse and vote of no confidence and all kinds of stuff.

539
00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:14,480
Everybody wanted to reach out to the burn patient to use his injury to show how dangerous the fire

540
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:21,600
service was and use it as a negotiation tool to demonstrate that firefighters do a dangerous job,

541
00:59:21,600 --> 00:59:26,320
and I couldn't even handle simple functions. I couldn't even give you a yes or a no on what

542
00:59:26,320 --> 00:59:39,200
I was thinking or feeling. I can't really utilize words to tell you the feeling of hopelessness.

543
00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:50,320
When I called to my EAP, I got the 1-800 number and I called it. I remember I could feel the sound

544
00:59:50,320 --> 00:59:56,160
and the feeling right now. Thank you for calling Health Advocate EAP. You're on a recorded line.

545
00:59:56,160 --> 01:00:03,440
Do you feel like harming yourself or others? When you say that to a firefighter,

546
01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:10,400
and that firefighter hasn't had the opportunity to realize that they're a human being behind the

547
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:16,320
badge, that the helmet that they wear doesn't protect the mind that's beneath it, and you put

548
01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:23,600
that in their mind, and you say it enough, it eventually starts becoming a good idea.

549
01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:30,240
When I reached out to say I want to talk to somebody and I shared my story, bits and pieces,

550
01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:35,760
which I'm sharing now, there was silence on the other end of the line, and I heard the counselor

551
01:00:35,760 --> 01:00:51,360
crying, James, crying. I'm thinking, are you okay? It was really the first lesson that for the most

552
01:00:51,360 --> 01:00:58,320
part our community only sees trauma once or twice in their life. They're going to lose their mother,

553
01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:04,480
their father, their spouse, or to have mercy on them, their kids if it's before their time.

554
01:01:06,560 --> 01:01:12,000
It can define them and devastate them. Firefighters and law enforcement officers and veterans

555
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:16,000
see stress and trauma in depth when I continue them.

556
01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:20,400
So when I let all that out and all I hear is crying on the other line, I just went,

557
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:28,160
holy crap, who's supposed to help me? I just traumatized them. I'm talking to them about

558
01:01:28,160 --> 01:01:33,040
their nightmares, about the call that I keep thinking about on 95 with those two little girls

559
01:01:33,040 --> 01:01:39,920
face down on the middle of the highway being ejected from the minivan and the mom upside down

560
01:01:39,920 --> 01:01:44,320
with her daughter. I'm talking to them about their nightmares, about the call that I keep

561
01:01:44,320 --> 01:01:48,640
thinking about on 95 with those two little girls face down on the minivan and the mom upside down

562
01:01:48,640 --> 01:01:53,920
with her neck wrapped around the seatbelt and the windshield wipers scraping across the broken

563
01:01:53,920 --> 01:02:00,000
glass. Why in the hell do these vehicles, when they get crunched up and burnt, why the hell do

564
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:06,640
the horns always still work? All I could see is these two little girls and the sound of this horn

565
01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:11,440
and we rolled the girl over and her face had been ground down on the asphalt. All I could see was

566
01:02:11,440 --> 01:02:16,480
and you're telling this lady like I need help, the nightmares won't go away. I can't even function

567
01:02:16,480 --> 01:02:21,120
in a family event. I don't even want to drink anymore because that doesn't fix it. I'm afraid

568
01:02:21,120 --> 01:02:26,400
to go to sleep. I don't want to be awake. I don't think I can be a firefighter anymore. Oh God,

569
01:02:26,400 --> 01:02:32,320
what if I can't do my job anymore? What am I? My passion is gone. My pride is there. What is my

570
01:02:32,320 --> 01:02:38,240
purpose? Maybe the world's going to be better off without me. I'm not even good enough to be in it.

571
01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:44,240
And then they send you to help and they sent me to a clinician. Brother, I walked in. They sent me

572
01:02:44,240 --> 01:02:52,240
to a child psychologist because that was all they had in my area. And you walk in and they're reading

573
01:02:52,960 --> 01:02:57,200
a guide on post-traumatic stress. And I remember this lady telling me, she goes,

574
01:02:57,200 --> 01:03:02,080
she listened to what I had to say and she goes, sir, I think you have PTSD. And I remember hearing

575
01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:09,680
that going, no, firefighters don't get that. Cops get that. Nobody shoots at me. Veterans,

576
01:03:09,680 --> 01:03:14,640
they get that. Firefighters don't get that. You flip through that book. There's no way.

577
01:03:15,760 --> 01:03:21,920
And she goes, no, you have PTSD. And I'm thinking, Jesus, is it contagious?

578
01:03:24,640 --> 01:03:29,600
Am I going to give this to my wife? I don't know anything about this.

579
01:03:29,600 --> 01:03:32,640
She goes, well, I'm going to have to refer you to somebody because I'm a child psychologist.

580
01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:35,440
And you're thinking, I just came in here and poured my heart out to you

581
01:03:35,440 --> 01:03:37,840
for an hour and a half and you're a child psychologist?

582
01:03:40,080 --> 01:03:42,240
They referred me to the health department, brother.

583
01:03:45,200 --> 01:03:50,720
Oh, yeah. And what I found is, talking to the firefighters, that our current EAP systems,

584
01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:55,920
we do have some exemplary ones in this country. But for the most part,

585
01:03:55,920 --> 01:04:03,600
fire departments approach EAPs to lower a liability profile and purchase the best value product rather

586
01:04:03,600 --> 01:04:08,800
than the most efficient to armor their men and women. So you're going to EAP services to people

587
01:04:08,800 --> 01:04:12,800
that the only time I've ever dealt with a firefighter or a law enforcement officer is either

588
01:04:12,800 --> 01:04:19,440
watching them on CNN or when they called 911. That's it. They don't understand the culture,

589
01:04:19,440 --> 01:04:26,720
the language, the process. So I found that the stories of other firefighters having these

590
01:04:26,720 --> 01:04:34,640
experiences are common. It's horrifying. It's inexcusable. But I sat down with the

591
01:04:34,640 --> 01:04:37,680
clinician that they sent me to at the Felsmere Health Department.

592
01:04:39,840 --> 01:04:44,560
And I have my three visits. And on the fourth visit, they walked in and they said,

593
01:04:44,560 --> 01:04:50,560
I'm sorry, we can't see you anymore unless you give us a credit card. Your county hasn't paid

594
01:04:50,560 --> 01:05:03,040
their EAP bill in five years. I just thought, I'm done. This isn't getting any better. It's making

595
01:05:03,040 --> 01:05:07,040
it worse. Some of the things we're talking about in these sessions are making my nightmares worse

596
01:05:07,040 --> 01:05:14,400
at home. I don't want to talk to anybody anymore because the more I talk about it, the worse this

597
01:05:14,400 --> 01:05:26,320
is seeming to get. And what we found out is when we reached out for EAP, my chief had grabbed a

598
01:05:26,320 --> 01:05:32,160
brochure. And it was from our old EAP services that we weren't using anymore. We had a whole new

599
01:05:32,160 --> 01:05:40,560
company. So I had to start all over again and call the 1-800 number. Thank you for calling your EAP

600
01:05:40,560 --> 01:05:47,200
provider. Do you feel like harming yourself or others? And for the first time, it sounded like

601
01:05:47,200 --> 01:05:53,280
a good idea because these were the doctors, these were the professionals, these are who we were

602
01:05:53,280 --> 01:06:11,760
going to, and it wasn't going to get better. My wife and I haven't had a crossed word with one

603
01:06:11,760 --> 01:06:20,000
another in 15 years. Never even had a fight. I love her with all my heart. And I remember when I

604
01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:32,160
hung up the phone, my wife was going to the grocery store. And for the first time in almost nine months,

605
01:06:32,160 --> 01:06:44,400
I finally felt like I had control over a decision. I decided that this wasn't going to get better.

606
01:06:44,400 --> 01:06:49,920
It wasn't going to go away. Nobody's going to fix it. And I can't talk to my crew about it because

607
01:06:49,920 --> 01:06:55,840
they're going to think I'm a coward or I'm nuts or I'm the only one because this job doesn't seem

608
01:06:55,840 --> 01:07:03,040
to bother any of them because we don't talk about feelings or emotions. So I'm the weak one. I'm the

609
01:07:03,040 --> 01:07:11,840
burden. And you know, think about all the calls over the years when you walk into a home of somebody

610
01:07:11,840 --> 01:07:20,480
who's completed suicide. Hell, even in the terminology, we as a culture say they committed

611
01:07:20,480 --> 01:07:29,120
suicide as if it's a crime. But it's not. They completed it. They did the one thing that they

612
01:07:29,120 --> 01:07:34,960
felt in their heart would solve their problem. And you know, I can think about all of the suicides,

613
01:07:34,960 --> 01:07:41,440
you know, the smell of a shotgun in a room after somebody shoots himself in the head, the smell of

614
01:07:41,440 --> 01:07:46,960
iron on the floor, the sound of a break fragment falling off of the drywall and hitting tile,

615
01:07:47,840 --> 01:07:52,560
the feeling of someone's neck when they stretch it out, when they hang themselves,

616
01:07:54,160 --> 01:08:01,440
that acrid smell of vomit when they overdose, the feeling of the water on your skin when you reach

617
01:08:01,440 --> 01:08:05,840
in to pull somebody out of a tub when they go up the tracks and slit their wrists the long way,

618
01:08:05,840 --> 01:08:11,840
and your glove dips in the water and the feeling of that blood on your arm. You used to look at

619
01:08:11,840 --> 01:08:16,880
them and say, man, how could they do that? What a coward, right? You look at the pictures, look at

620
01:08:16,880 --> 01:08:21,520
they had kids, they had their spouse, they went on this vacation. How could they do this? And

621
01:08:24,800 --> 01:08:25,760
sitting on it,

622
01:08:28,720 --> 01:08:30,080
sitting on a porch,

623
01:08:30,080 --> 01:08:33,280
I finally understood that

624
01:08:35,920 --> 01:08:42,000
they were trying to find peace. And it's not for us to judge that

625
01:08:43,680 --> 01:08:47,680
they're not trying to harm their family. They truly believe in their heart,

626
01:08:48,240 --> 01:08:54,960
that by their very existing on this earth is causing harm to the ones they love. And that by

627
01:08:54,960 --> 01:09:01,440
taking their own life, they're serving their family better. And

628
01:09:05,040 --> 01:09:08,640
my wife came over to the porch and kissed me and said, I'm going to the grocery store.

629
01:09:10,800 --> 01:09:16,080
And one of the pieces of advice I can offer to families

630
01:09:17,280 --> 01:09:20,720
of law enforcement and firefighters and veterans is

631
01:09:20,720 --> 01:09:26,480
when your firefighter or your law enforcement officer or your veteran is struggling

632
01:09:28,320 --> 01:09:32,000
with the psychological effects

633
01:09:33,840 --> 01:09:39,760
of trauma, don't start hiding all the scissors in the house and putting foam block corners on

634
01:09:39,760 --> 01:09:45,360
the furniture and hiding guns and knives and taking their keys away from their truck. Listen,

635
01:09:45,360 --> 01:09:50,160
if your firefighter or your first responder or your veteran wants to harm themselves, they can

636
01:09:50,160 --> 01:09:54,720
kill themselves with a chopstick if they're dedicated enough. When you start taking all of

637
01:09:54,720 --> 01:10:01,600
those things away from it, it makes it worse. The simple things of being able to hop in your truck

638
01:10:01,600 --> 01:10:07,280
and go to the store and your family takes away your keys, or they start leaning forward towards

639
01:10:07,280 --> 01:10:13,360
you and go, Hey, James, you doing okay, buddy? You're doing okay. You're doing okay. You're

640
01:10:13,360 --> 01:10:18,080
James. You're doing okay, buddy. All I could think of is everybody that came to see me would lean

641
01:10:18,080 --> 01:10:23,600
forward and whisper. I think, God damn it, there's nothing wrong with my hearing. Why is everyone

642
01:10:23,600 --> 01:10:30,080
whispering to me? But they feel like they're helping and it's not. It's debilitating.

643
01:10:32,400 --> 01:10:38,400
I remember she kissed me on the head and went to the store. I had found my spare key to the truck

644
01:10:38,400 --> 01:10:42,800
and I had decided the night before and my wife felt comfortable going to the store because I was

645
01:10:42,800 --> 01:10:48,560
happy that morning. I was happy because I finally had an answer. I finally created a solution. I

646
01:10:49,920 --> 01:10:56,560
wasn't going to therapy. I had zip tied a bunch of weights in my BC the night before

647
01:10:59,120 --> 01:11:06,960
and I loaded up my boat when my wife left and I grabbed a bottle of rum and my dog and

648
01:11:06,960 --> 01:11:13,120
I was going to head to the west wall, go as far as I could in my skiff until it ran out of gas,

649
01:11:14,000 --> 01:11:22,080
get shit house drunk, put my feet over the side and go in with about 500 pounds of air and figure

650
01:11:22,080 --> 01:11:26,880
I've got just enough to get down far enough to where I'll black out and there's no way I'll come

651
01:11:26,880 --> 01:11:32,320
back up. My wife will get insurance. My daughter will be able to go to school. I won't be a burden

652
01:11:32,320 --> 01:11:43,840
I won't be a burden and you know what everybody will be okay with this because they know how much

653
01:11:43,840 --> 01:11:49,600
I love diving. They'll think I just went out and had an accident and nobody will have to know.

654
01:11:49,600 --> 01:12:02,960
And the sound of the ballpoint on the little table where I wrote to my wife that I'm sorry I wasn't a

655
01:12:02,960 --> 01:12:16,160
very good husband and I'm sorry I couldn't fix this but I've got too many other people's lives

656
01:12:16,160 --> 01:12:21,360
in my heart and it doesn't go away and I can't fix it it's not your fault.

657
01:12:28,000 --> 01:12:35,520
I was very very blessed that my wife called my brother to come check on me

658
01:12:35,520 --> 01:12:43,920
and when he found me he called Dave who was my best friend and a battalion chief for Indian River

659
01:12:43,920 --> 01:12:52,560
County and we talk about firefighters exercising the beautiful display of love which is truly the

660
01:12:52,560 --> 01:12:59,280
absence of judgment just like the guys in OFD to come and sit every day with a firefighter's family

661
01:12:59,280 --> 01:13:07,200
that they never met to offer support for a burn survivor. My brother and Dave sat on the porch

662
01:13:07,200 --> 01:13:11,520
and just wrapped their arms around me and said well why didn't you tell me man.

663
01:13:13,600 --> 01:13:18,560
You know when you talk to other firefighters about suicidal ideation and having nightmares

664
01:13:18,560 --> 01:13:24,160
and daymares and why we're so hyper vigilant all the time why we react so viscerally with

665
01:13:24,160 --> 01:13:29,280
things like your daughter wanting to borrow the car and go out at 11 o'clock tonight at the movies

666
01:13:29,280 --> 01:13:34,400
and you just have an outburst and say no are you out of your mind conversation done why because

667
01:13:34,400 --> 01:13:39,360
we've just saw a teenage girl with her head split in an a-post at an intersection coming back from

668
01:13:39,360 --> 01:13:45,760
an 11 o'clock movie why we're so hyper vigilant why we were so reactive it's uh you know and a

669
01:13:45,760 --> 01:13:52,720
firefighter sits there holding your suicide note and you know you're like oh my god I'm gonna die

670
01:13:52,720 --> 01:14:01,120
and they look at you and they they don't judge you they say brother I got your back and they get

671
01:14:01,120 --> 01:14:07,600
your help and um it's the exact opposite of what our culture instills from the day one when you

672
01:14:07,600 --> 01:14:14,240
get your gear and they tell you if you can't handle this McDonald's is hiring this is what we do why

673
01:14:14,240 --> 01:14:19,040
we send our new firefighters into the graphic gory calls why we used to make them go hook up a four

674
01:14:19,040 --> 01:14:24,080
lead do a guy that had no head just to shock the firefighter and then tell them later well if you

675
01:14:24,080 --> 01:14:31,200
can't handle it rub some dirt on it don't be a pussy we do as firefighters the exact opposite of

676
01:14:31,200 --> 01:14:36,640
what we try and scare our new incoming firefighters into believing that talking about feelings and

677
01:14:36,640 --> 01:14:43,120
emotions and and psychological response to being exposed to the most graphic stuff on earth for 30

678
01:14:43,120 --> 01:14:50,080
years man they didn't judge me they didn't laugh at me they didn't tell me to rub some dirt on it

679
01:14:52,400 --> 01:14:56,880
I sat there and waited for my wife to come home and my beautiful wife was able to find me a

680
01:14:56,880 --> 01:15:06,880
clinician outside of our EAP that got us that understood us that helped save my life I didn't

681
01:15:06,880 --> 01:15:13,760
even know I had a subconscious James I remember I sat down and we talked about cognitive reframing

682
01:15:13,760 --> 01:15:18,320
and cbt therapy and hypnotherapy and I'm like whoa doc hypnotherapy like the stuff they do at the

683
01:15:18,320 --> 01:15:23,040
fair look you're not going to say look deeply into my eyes and then I'm going to wake up with

684
01:15:23,040 --> 01:15:27,600
a greasy sensation in my rear end and use up in your pants and a tissue gets put in my hand we're

685
01:15:27,600 --> 01:15:32,960
not doing no we don't know about those things because we weren't educated it was foreign it

686
01:15:32,960 --> 01:15:40,320
was another language but those things work I remember him saying if you had to rate this on

687
01:15:40,320 --> 01:15:45,520
a scale of zero to ten you every single day having a nightmare replaying and dreaming of you being on

688
01:15:45,520 --> 01:15:49,760
fire having nightmares now that you're you're lighting your wife and daughter on fire you're

689
01:15:49,760 --> 01:15:54,560
sitting at the crew and and you envision your crew burning and you just sit there and watch them and

690
01:15:54,560 --> 01:15:58,800
you're terrified if you had to rate that on a scale of zero to ten how would you rate that I'm

691
01:15:58,800 --> 01:16:06,240
thinking well I'd say a ten doc okay well what would you like it to be and I'm just was dumbfounded

692
01:16:06,240 --> 01:16:11,840
wait a minute that's an option I can change the way I view this if I change the way I view the

693
01:16:11,840 --> 01:16:16,000
world the world that I see will change are you kidding me and you say that to somebody and they

694
01:16:16,000 --> 01:16:20,400
go well that's common sense but you say that to a first responder and they'll tell you your batshit

695
01:16:20,400 --> 01:16:29,440
crazy until you teach them that it's possible so I started going to this therapy almost daily and

696
01:16:29,440 --> 01:16:39,760
started realizing that that that I'm not crazy that that we touch thousands of lives in our career

697
01:16:41,680 --> 01:16:45,200
it's not unreasonable that some of those lives that we interact with are going to touch us

698
01:16:45,200 --> 01:16:49,440
I'll give a shout out here to a gentleman in Palm Beach County fire rescue his name is Larry

699
01:16:49,440 --> 01:16:57,440
Doling Uncle Larry as we call them Larry Doling and Jeremy Heard are a dynamic duo that that that

700
01:16:58,480 --> 01:17:03,680
I truly believe that that we talk about faith fate and circumstance that God placed in my

701
01:17:03,680 --> 01:17:08,560
family's life they are part of my family not just friends not just brothers their family plain and

702
01:17:08,560 --> 01:17:16,480
simple and they came and taught me some amazing lessons one of the lessons that Larry who is a

703
01:17:16,480 --> 01:17:26,880
very colorful lovely man he told me a story once he goes you know firefighters first responders and

704
01:17:26,880 --> 01:17:35,120
veterans he shared with me the story of the Garden of Eden you know and we all know how it goes you

705
01:17:35,120 --> 01:17:38,640
know you have Adam and Eve or Adam and Steve if you drive far enough down to Fort Lauderdale I

706
01:17:38,640 --> 01:17:44,240
don't judge nor do I care what your hardware is but you have Adam and Eve and they lived in this

707
01:17:44,240 --> 01:17:48,240
beautiful blissful place right they wanted for nothing everything was perfect and as it should be

708
01:17:48,240 --> 01:17:57,920
and God told them he warned them you can live here forever in perfect harmony just do not eat

709
01:17:57,920 --> 01:18:05,360
ever in perfect harmony just do not eat from the tree of knowledge they were warned and as the

710
01:18:05,360 --> 01:18:11,920
story goes Adam was a good husband and said yes dear when that Eve came to him and handed him this

711
01:18:11,920 --> 01:18:16,880
fruit and they took a bite right the tree of knowledge they were immediately they knew pain

712
01:18:16,880 --> 01:18:21,120
they were naked they were afraid they were scared they were banished from the Garden of Eden never

713
01:18:21,120 --> 01:18:25,760
to lay eyes on it again and I'm listening to Larry and I'm going brother okay I know the story of

714
01:18:25,760 --> 01:18:34,720
the Garden of Eden what's what's what's the lesson he goes well first responders are a little different

715
01:18:36,720 --> 01:18:43,920
our family lives in the Garden of Eden they don't know pain they don't know death they don't know

716
01:18:43,920 --> 01:18:51,920
sorrow you weren't warned and you were designed to take that bite from the tree of knowledge

717
01:18:51,920 --> 01:18:56,720
you know what pain looks like you know what death smells like you know what sadness and sorrow and

718
01:18:56,720 --> 01:19:03,840
emotional loss tastes like and feels like to the very core you know what it looks like when

719
01:19:03,840 --> 01:19:07,920
somebody's eyes will glaze over they take their last breath the sound a mother will make

720
01:19:07,920 --> 01:19:13,920
screaming down from the top of a bridge for you to bring up their beloved son from the bottom of the

721
01:19:13,920 --> 01:19:20,240
river you know what visceral pain is to the very core you took that bite as if it was something

722
01:19:20,240 --> 01:19:23,920
of honor that you were going to protect your family your community your country

723
01:19:25,200 --> 01:19:32,320
and you spend a third of your life 30 years outside of the Garden of Eden and you spend

724
01:19:32,320 --> 01:19:39,920
two-thirds of your life over those 30 years and beyond coming back inside the gates of the Garden

725
01:19:39,920 --> 01:19:44,960
of Eden trying to dwell with your family that didn't take the bite from the same poisonous fruit

726
01:19:44,960 --> 01:19:51,120
living in the same community and you don't tell them and you don't communicate with them

727
01:19:51,120 --> 01:19:58,320
because you think you're protecting them remember that raw visceral thought of holy cow you're right

728
01:20:00,560 --> 01:20:05,120
so when we come home from work and you just watched an entire family on their way to disney

729
01:20:05,120 --> 01:20:09,600
wiped off the face of the earth like the hand of god because some guy was drinking and driving

730
01:20:09,600 --> 01:20:14,800
rolled his vehicle and killed him dead or dead he was just a little boy and he was

731
01:20:14,800 --> 01:20:20,960
better than crap right there on the overpass and then you come home and you have a family birthday

732
01:20:20,960 --> 01:20:27,280
party that night and you don't tell your wife while you're crying out back in your beer

733
01:20:28,880 --> 01:20:34,160
you tell her no i'm just tired well how was your shift yesterday it was good we did some training

734
01:20:34,160 --> 01:20:37,760
uh we had a good dinner we had a good meat sauce last night just got a little heartburn

735
01:20:37,760 --> 01:20:42,080
just a little choked up from it why do we do that it's because we think we're protecting them

736
01:20:42,080 --> 01:20:47,280
instead of saying honey i'm terrified to touch our daughter because every kid that i seem to touch now dies

737
01:20:49,840 --> 01:20:55,520
but to have that foresight to say the garden of eden story it really holds a lot of truth

738
01:20:56,400 --> 01:20:58,320
that what we do as first responders

739
01:21:01,440 --> 01:21:09,840
the irony of all of uh that path is um my best friend david dangerfield uh he kept my suicide note

740
01:21:09,840 --> 01:21:18,000
and i didn't know it until uh october this uh this year last year he um

741
01:21:20,400 --> 01:21:25,040
he wrote his suicide note on the back of mine he got in his class a uniform and he shot himself in

742
01:21:25,040 --> 01:21:41,760
the head um they say that uh that you have to lose the uh ones that you love because otherwise how

743
01:21:41,760 --> 01:21:45,520
how would you know how important they are to you until they're gone um

744
01:21:45,520 --> 01:21:54,400
um i can tell you after 15 years in the fire service almost 13 of them being side by side with

745
01:21:54,400 --> 01:22:07,760
dave uh i think about him every day um i uh i miss him with all of my heart and um

746
01:22:07,760 --> 01:22:15,680
i think about all of the crazy ass one-of-a-kind horrific calls that we've been on together and um

747
01:22:17,520 --> 01:22:21,280
i feel very blessed to have shared life with him and uh

748
01:22:23,200 --> 01:22:28,800
i'm gonna kick him in the balls when i see him it's a hell of a thing to uh

749
01:22:28,800 --> 01:22:34,960
have that horrific realization that your best friend is gone and then to have that phone call

750
01:22:34,960 --> 01:22:40,240
from your administration going hey dustin uh we need you and you're the chaplain

751
01:22:50,400 --> 01:22:53,200
it's a painful thing to will your best friend die

752
01:22:53,200 --> 01:22:56,560
it's a painful thing to will your best friend into a crematory

753
01:23:00,800 --> 01:23:07,440
and did uh did chief dangerfield ever talk to you about things that he was going through prior to

754
01:23:07,440 --> 01:23:14,480
this quite a bit and uh he was going to professional counseling and uh

755
01:23:16,160 --> 01:23:19,760
was going through a hell of a uh hell of a personal life process

756
01:23:19,760 --> 01:23:28,160
and divorce and um really struggling and um

757
01:23:31,680 --> 01:23:39,440
he was uh utilizing the traditional psychotherapy and emdr which he would share with a bunch of

758
01:23:39,440 --> 01:23:46,000
firefighters and even in his last last wish on facebook encouraging

759
01:23:46,000 --> 01:23:50,960
people to get help you know he was an advocate for mental wellness

760
01:23:52,960 --> 01:23:55,280
you know to talk about your feelings to

761
01:23:59,120 --> 01:24:03,920
seek and get that help and be supportive of others and um

762
01:24:05,200 --> 01:24:11,600
truly bodes and speaks volumes to his character even just moments before he completed suicide

763
01:24:11,600 --> 01:24:20,160
to say love to my crews i miss you all and to get the help that um

764
01:24:22,160 --> 01:24:24,000
truly an amazing soul

765
01:24:29,200 --> 01:24:38,000
david became in the last few weeks of his life jovial again celebrating his death

766
01:24:38,000 --> 01:24:45,680
life jovial again celebrating laughing he had the most contagious laugh he would laugh until

767
01:24:45,680 --> 01:24:53,840
he'd snort and piss himself it was amazing just amazing and uh we look back

768
01:24:58,400 --> 01:25:02,800
he became that way looking now and reading through a lot of his notes that he had written

769
01:25:02,800 --> 01:25:08,080
um that he had made the decision to take control of the one thing in his life he felt he had control

770
01:25:08,080 --> 01:25:14,960
over and he had decided to end his life weeks before he did never said a word

771
01:25:16,720 --> 01:25:18,960
he just became peaceful again

772
01:25:23,760 --> 01:25:30,080
finding now working with firefighters that there is a um there's a recipe that happens

773
01:25:30,080 --> 01:25:37,280
we talk about post-traumatic stress and triggers um i equate it to a musical score

774
01:25:38,400 --> 01:25:44,320
each individual note by itself an instrument playing is innocuous um and makes no melody or

775
01:25:44,320 --> 01:25:49,120
music but when all of the notes a firefighter's story that law enforcement and veterans

776
01:25:49,120 --> 01:25:55,280
storyline each one of those notes is a trauma perspective if you will when each one of them

777
01:25:55,280 --> 01:26:04,080
lines up and that score plays as a massive fill harmonic style orchestra

778
01:26:05,600 --> 01:26:12,160
it's catastrophic when you throw in financial distress physical fitness lacking emotional

779
01:26:12,160 --> 01:26:16,320
marital or divorce and discipline at work and you throw all of those together

780
01:26:16,320 --> 01:26:25,680
you will without fail if we do not change the culture and armor our firefighters educate our

781
01:26:25,680 --> 01:26:31,040
first responders families on resiliency tools recognition and making it safe to communicate

782
01:26:31,680 --> 01:26:39,120
you and i and all of our fire service if we willfully stand idle and don't prepare our new

783
01:26:39,120 --> 01:26:46,640
incoming firefighters and empower our incumbent firefighters across this country we will continue

784
01:26:47,440 --> 01:26:54,640
to put firefighters beneath pieces of granite we will continue to etch their names on the fire

785
01:26:54,640 --> 01:27:00,160
fallen firefighter wall and we will continue to lose some of the most beautiful souls on this planet

786
01:27:00,880 --> 01:27:04,720
that are hardwired to be in the service of others if we do not prepare them

787
01:27:04,720 --> 01:27:14,080
and make it socially and culturally acceptable to be human we're tasked with this it is our responsibility

788
01:27:15,600 --> 01:27:23,200
that's where this path comes from we talk about mental resiliency i sat on the porch the night

789
01:27:23,200 --> 01:27:30,080
before i gave dave's eulogy with larry and jeremy from palm beach county and i was in the middle of

790
01:27:30,080 --> 01:27:35,760
the night and i gave dave's eulogy with larry and jeremy from palm beach county fire rescue

791
01:27:37,920 --> 01:27:44,640
i sketched it on a napkin what redline rescue is and as jeremy eloquently puts you know i've

792
01:27:44,640 --> 01:27:49,760
heard hundreds of firefighters come up with great ideas after drinking a lot of rum and sketching

793
01:27:49,760 --> 01:27:59,440
it on a napkin and they never come to fruition but i don't have the word if in my heart i have

794
01:27:59,440 --> 01:28:10,160
the belief of when the idea was firefighters 90 of the conversation that we have with one another

795
01:28:10,160 --> 01:28:16,560
first responders and law enforcement officers and veterans alike 90 of the conversation is done in

796
01:28:16,560 --> 01:28:21,120
the first 10 seconds that we meet each other just by looking each other in the eyes kind of like the

797
01:28:21,120 --> 01:28:29,920
burned survivors when they're still burned victims for some things that don't even need to be set

798
01:28:29,920 --> 01:28:34,400
because we know that look in their eyes their character the charisma their character

799
01:28:37,760 --> 01:28:38,720
just by looking at them

800
01:28:41,840 --> 01:28:49,120
so the vision is and how to fruition with the support of nova southeastern and

801
01:28:49,120 --> 01:28:58,080
university of miami is if we armor all firefighters 70 000 plus incumbent firefighters

802
01:28:58,080 --> 01:29:05,440
professional volunteer first responders in the state of florida alone if we armor and educate and

803
01:29:05,440 --> 01:29:16,480
normalize explain what cathartic ventilation is listening skills and techniques recognizing responses

804
01:29:16,480 --> 01:29:25,200
of actual emotional trauma teach them what psychiatrists do psychologists do hypnotherapists do

805
01:29:25,200 --> 01:29:30,000
how the referral process actually works as opposed to putting a brochure on a cork board

806
01:29:30,000 --> 01:29:35,760
and hoping it's the right damn phone number if we teach it through minimum standards it becomes

807
01:29:35,760 --> 01:29:40,080
socially acceptable look at the air pack

808
01:29:40,080 --> 01:29:48,080
we look at firefighters now that look at those scbas snapped into the truck hopefully all clean

809
01:29:48,080 --> 01:29:54,320
cab concept inspired by coral springs from here on out but snapped into the truck wherever they

810
01:29:54,320 --> 01:30:01,680
may be at this point and they believe that it always has been that way but it wasn't but a short

811
01:30:01,680 --> 01:30:10,240
while ago that you were looked at as a coward if you threw an air pack on your back why because

812
01:30:10,240 --> 01:30:17,280
the culture didn't accept it we didn't educate the firefighters so they wouldn't use it mental

813
01:30:17,280 --> 01:30:23,040
wellness is no different so we identified a problem so we educated firefighters on if you don't wear

814
01:30:23,040 --> 01:30:30,400
that air pack you're getting cancer this is how you get cancer this is the route this is what

815
01:30:30,400 --> 01:30:35,200
off gassing is on a fire this is what happens when you absorb it into your gear this is why we're in

816
01:30:35,200 --> 01:30:40,800
danger when an overhaul or we're shooting down and we're still in an idlh environment so what

817
01:30:40,800 --> 01:30:47,360
happened firefighters started wearing it because they didn't want to die they wanted to live long

818
01:30:47,360 --> 01:30:54,000
and healthy and happy lives long into retirement so the air pack became normalized so why not take

819
01:30:54,000 --> 01:30:59,280
the same tried and true method and apply it to mental wellness so what we sketched out was

820
01:30:59,280 --> 01:31:06,080
creating a block of education to normalize mental wellness to firefighters from day one and

821
01:31:06,080 --> 01:31:11,520
firefighter one and firefighter two roll out that same block to all incumbent firefighters across

822
01:31:11,520 --> 01:31:16,960
the country and we're going to have to do that again and again and again and again and again

823
01:31:16,960 --> 01:31:24,160
across the state normalizing that the conversation of mental wellness can occur all of a sudden

824
01:31:24,160 --> 01:31:29,920
because you talk about feelings you're not a coward you're human so those kitchen table counseling

825
01:31:29,920 --> 01:31:35,120
sessions can actually be done with an educated measure of guidance so we're not just trying to

826
01:31:35,120 --> 01:31:41,760
create a bunch of firehouse lawyers we're actually creating people that have the basic first responder

827
01:31:41,760 --> 01:31:49,840
level to recognize when one of their brothers and sisters is in danger and know how to get them help

828
01:31:49,840 --> 01:31:55,200
and what that help is going to look like and what the process is going to be and then we created the

829
01:31:55,200 --> 01:32:03,440
sketch of red line rescue which is a portal sponsored and supported by the state this model

830
01:32:03,440 --> 01:32:07,840
along with the health and safety collaborative as the vehicle is supported by the florida fire

831
01:32:07,840 --> 01:32:14,480
chiefs association the fpf the iaff the bureau of training and standards and the state fire marshal's

832
01:32:14,480 --> 01:32:20,480
office and deputy director ethridge and the cfo that this is the industry mainstay and standard

833
01:32:20,480 --> 01:32:27,760
that uses technology supported and facilitated through education to link firefighters to other

834
01:32:27,760 --> 01:32:34,640
firefighters and clinical providers that are versed in our culture so what we do is we have

835
01:32:34,640 --> 01:32:39,520
a block of education that nova southeastern is assisting us with dr vince van hasselt and chief

836
01:32:39,520 --> 01:32:47,920
ladue have created because we have the peer-to-peer model now cism and cisd is a mainstay and it still

837
01:32:47,920 --> 01:32:55,440
does serve a very valuable purpose but peer-to-peer support is always ready all the time it doesn't

838
01:32:55,440 --> 01:33:01,600
take a critical incident an sop protocol to be followed the example in case and point james if

839
01:33:01,600 --> 01:33:07,840
you're my peer provider you're the one that has advanced training and a block of education received

840
01:33:07,840 --> 01:33:13,760
and approved by bureau of training and standards with ongoing ceus to know how to actively listen

841
01:33:13,760 --> 01:33:19,440
to a firefighter listen for alert and keywords no basic referral techniques and when to get that

842
01:33:19,440 --> 01:33:26,160
firefighter to a critical care center you are always ready and available and if you i match to

843
01:33:26,160 --> 01:33:33,680
you through redline rescue which uses math it uses an algorithm i am more apt to talk to a firefighter

844
01:33:33,680 --> 01:33:40,160
that does not work in my department and does not live in the area why is that anonymity

845
01:33:41,040 --> 01:33:46,000
firefighters when they speak into their own department what are some of the setbacks

846
01:33:46,960 --> 01:33:51,440
what are some of the whole holding factors that keep firefighters from sharing

847
01:33:51,440 --> 01:33:55,040
personal struggles in their marriage and their personal life and their finances

848
01:33:55,040 --> 01:34:00,480
that's simple they were afraid if they tell their firefighter that works next to them in their county

849
01:34:00,480 --> 01:34:03,280
that maybe they'll tell the chief and they won't get promoted right

850
01:34:06,080 --> 01:34:12,000
maybe they uh they'll be looked at differently maybe they get fired so when you remove that

851
01:34:12,000 --> 01:34:15,760
through the stigma process reduction through the bureau of training and standards the

852
01:34:15,760 --> 01:34:18,800
firefighter is comfortable and they have a mechanism that they can pick up their phone

853
01:34:18,800 --> 01:34:22,400
or they can pick up their tablet or their computer and go to redline rescue

854
01:34:22,400 --> 01:34:26,560
knowing and they've already been educated on how it works through bureau of training and standards

855
01:34:28,000 --> 01:34:34,320
through target solutions is one of our sponsors and they know that they can push in this button

856
01:34:34,320 --> 01:34:39,520
that's 100% anonymous they put in their demographics not their name not their department

857
01:34:39,520 --> 01:34:48,000
and it populates and ip pings them within a 60 mile block and provides them a list of 10 to 15

858
01:34:48,000 --> 01:34:53,840
peer providers that are firefighters that now through this mathematical algorithm have similar rank

859
01:34:53,840 --> 01:34:59,920
similar life experiences similar injuries and struggles religious beliefs and all they have to

860
01:34:59,920 --> 01:35:05,920
do is push a button and they can be linked to that peer provider immediately and if they need an eap

861
01:35:05,920 --> 01:35:12,160
clinician on the same algorithm process it matches them to a provider that has and accepts their

862
01:35:12,160 --> 01:35:18,000
insurance that is versed in firefighter culture language experience we created a clinician

863
01:35:18,000 --> 01:35:24,320
awareness program palm beach county fire rescue and coral springs have been instrumental in

864
01:35:24,320 --> 01:35:29,920
delivering our clinician awareness program which is a two-day program which covers everything from

865
01:35:29,920 --> 01:35:35,280
the way we speak interact the way we live in the fire service on duty and off duty and why is that

866
01:35:35,280 --> 01:35:41,680
important because when you sit down and you're ready to go to the fire service and you're ready

867
01:35:41,680 --> 01:35:48,720
to receive clinical help most firefighters pre-education on what mental wellness is looks

868
01:35:48,720 --> 01:35:53,840
at reaching out for mental wellness as a demarcation point of failure like they couldn't handle it so i

869
01:35:53,840 --> 01:35:57,840
have to go to the head doctor now and when they sit down in front of this doctor and they spill

870
01:35:57,840 --> 01:36:05,600
their guts and the doctor goes wait a minute so you guys work like what nine to five monday to

871
01:36:05,600 --> 01:36:12,480
tuesday thursday how do your shifts work you stay there for 24 hours oh my god do you sleep there

872
01:36:12,480 --> 01:36:16,160
and the firefighter sitting there trying to express yeah we had a structure fire

873
01:36:17,120 --> 01:36:22,560
went to go protect an exposure pulled a deuce and a half nozzle failed exposure went ahead and went

874
01:36:22,560 --> 01:36:27,920
up and there was a little girl that was on side alpha bravo sleep in her crib and she burned up

875
01:36:27,920 --> 01:36:31,680
because the curtains caught fire from the radiant heat and the fire and the clinician goes what's a

876
01:36:31,680 --> 01:36:37,440
deuce and a half alpha bravo is that like a sandwich what is that so what we found is when

877
01:36:37,440 --> 01:36:43,360
we educate these clinicians over a two-day period on language terminology basically give them a

878
01:36:43,360 --> 01:36:48,800
rosetta stone of how firefighters speak so the harmful things don't happen in the very first

879
01:36:48,800 --> 01:36:53,840
session like when i went and i'm talking to a child psychologist who's reading a ptsd manual

880
01:36:53,840 --> 01:36:58,800
and they ask the stupid-ass question of hey dustin can i touch your scars on your arms do they hurt

881
01:36:58,800 --> 01:37:03,600
so these clinicians don't do things that are prohibitive to care so the firefighters know

882
01:37:03,600 --> 01:37:08,160
when they sit down with these list of clinicians that populate on the red line rescue site that

883
01:37:08,160 --> 01:37:12,720
they have gone through intensive two-day training they've gotten in bunker gear they've gone into

884
01:37:12,720 --> 01:37:18,960
blacked out simulated smoke environments they've gone and they've seen these graphic calls they've

885
01:37:18,960 --> 01:37:25,920
done a 24-hour shift at a busy firehouse not one that's the sleepaway camp station where they get

886
01:37:25,920 --> 01:37:35,120
one call a shift they they they can show effective empathy and now apply improved modalities of care

887
01:37:35,120 --> 01:37:40,880
to get that firefighter armored with resiliency tools so the comfort level is there when we first

888
01:37:40,880 --> 01:37:45,680
did the clinician awareness program the original concern was how do we get clinicians here are

889
01:37:45,680 --> 01:37:50,400
they going to want to show up what i can tell you is after the very first class that we hosted there

890
01:37:50,400 --> 01:37:55,440
was no shortage of clinicians there was actually lines of clinicians that were not there and so

891
01:37:55,440 --> 01:37:59,440
we were able to get them in lines and we are backlogged again for a class that signed up in

892
01:37:59,440 --> 01:38:06,800
october with the entire upper echelon ceo and cfos and their administrative staff of signa

893
01:38:06,800 --> 01:38:10,880
that stepped up to say we want every one of our clinicians to go through this program

894
01:38:10,880 --> 01:38:17,200
so we can better serve our first responders in this country i couldn't believe the response i

895
01:38:17,200 --> 01:38:23,040
said hey we get 10 people that'll be great we have to use after october we talked to the bureau of

896
01:38:23,040 --> 01:38:29,680
fire marshals office we will have to utilize every florida state fire college across the state

897
01:38:29,680 --> 01:38:32,320
to keep up with the demand now of training our clinicians

898
01:38:35,120 --> 01:38:41,840
so there's no more of hey uh james um do you have any clinicians around you i need to see somebody

899
01:38:41,840 --> 01:38:46,640
and you'd have to hope that you had a list of doctors around you that would accept my insurance

900
01:38:46,640 --> 01:38:50,080
and could help me every once in a while you get lucky but every once in a while they slip through

901
01:38:50,080 --> 01:38:56,240
the cracks now when we have a state and nationwide populated list of culturally aware clinicians

902
01:38:56,240 --> 01:39:04,480
and firefighters to pair to help with that language gap brother we have an armored new family

903
01:39:04,480 --> 01:39:10,640
of firefighters that aren't just going to struggle to survive their 25 and 30 years in the fire

904
01:39:10,640 --> 01:39:17,680
service but thrive through the fire service and long into retirement the thought processes

905
01:39:17,680 --> 01:39:23,680
approach the same mechanisms that we've done for every other danger in the fire service identify

906
01:39:23,680 --> 01:39:30,400
a problem paint the pattern and create a preventable measure to stop this pattern we're going to use the

907
01:39:30,400 --> 01:39:36,640
same thing with mental wellness university of miami has created a team to create an eight-hour

908
01:39:36,640 --> 01:39:43,600
block of education to go in our 480 i believe it's 480 hours of current curriculum and minimum

909
01:39:43,600 --> 01:39:49,280
standards for firefighter one and firefighter two so we're putting a eight-hour block that can run

910
01:39:50,240 --> 01:39:55,040
consecutively back to back matched and paired with the appropriate sections of

911
01:39:56,320 --> 01:40:03,600
the curriculum a point case example let's say we work on um pediatric and um during that

912
01:40:03,600 --> 01:40:08,400
pediatric group we put in and implement the emotional response to dealing with pediatric

913
01:40:08,400 --> 01:40:14,000
death for the firefighter when we get into protecting scene safety and protecting evidence

914
01:40:14,000 --> 01:40:19,360
on scene that's when we put in the efforts of the effects of dealing with suicides and

915
01:40:19,360 --> 01:40:24,080
firefighter suicides and we input those into the appropriate section so we have a hybrid program

916
01:40:24,080 --> 01:40:29,520
of education so university of miami is writing a evidence-based frontline psychological first aid

917
01:40:29,520 --> 01:40:33,520
program that our health and safety collaborative is turning over to the bureau of training and

918
01:40:33,520 --> 01:40:39,680
standards to be implemented nova southeastern is creating or wrapping up the peer-to-peer model

919
01:40:39,680 --> 01:40:44,480
which they've already gone through multiple test groups we had some of our members through the

920
01:40:45,200 --> 01:40:50,640
coral springs fire rescue that went through their program and it is a very intensive program

921
01:40:52,160 --> 01:40:57,360
the reason we want to create a standard peer-to-peer is not to say we're going to invent something new

922
01:40:57,360 --> 01:41:01,360
we're taking the best of the best of all of the peer programs and that's why the health and safety

923
01:41:01,360 --> 01:41:06,560
collaborative is so effective is because they don't try and protect industry secrets like a

924
01:41:06,560 --> 01:41:13,920
nuclear football they take everybody's ideas and create a think tank workshop and share the

925
01:41:13,920 --> 01:41:21,120
information readily so we can take best management practices and you know basically bring thousands

926
01:41:21,120 --> 01:41:27,840
of years accumulatively of fire service experience to the round table and create a standardized

927
01:41:27,840 --> 01:41:33,760
predictable product so that's what we're doing with the peer-to-peer to create a nationwide standard

928
01:41:34,960 --> 01:41:42,320
so we can have repeatable results we we're very very thankful and i'm very very thankful

929
01:41:42,320 --> 01:41:52,640
you know we had spoken early on in this about honoring our past and i believe that

930
01:41:52,640 --> 01:41:58,880
first responders at sometimes we think it's a curse but we're being offered an opportunity

931
01:41:59,680 --> 01:42:05,920
as a gift to take all of the lives that we interact with in such visceral and painful ways

932
01:42:06,560 --> 01:42:14,880
and inspire other firefighters and their families to use that painful perspective as a driving

933
01:42:14,880 --> 01:42:22,800
purpose to celebrate life to thrive at home and through these processes of education teaching

934
01:42:22,800 --> 01:42:29,280
firefighters and their spouses and it's okay to talk to one or give them the ability and the tools

935
01:42:29,280 --> 01:42:37,120
to communicate and utilize peer support i believe that we are going to see a marked point of

936
01:42:37,120 --> 01:42:43,920
reduction in firefighter suicide and divorce rates and substance abuse and uh creating

937
01:42:43,920 --> 01:42:53,280
uh careers ending early because of ptsd and shift that model from post-traumatic stress

938
01:42:53,280 --> 01:43:00,080
towards post-traumatic growth one of the uh other unique things about redline rescue is

939
01:43:01,280 --> 01:43:09,680
we have already taken the algorithm and the process and trademarked and copyrighted it but

940
01:43:09,680 --> 01:43:17,680
uh it's underneath the 501c3 we're giving this model away at um to free uh two agencies that need

941
01:43:17,680 --> 01:43:22,400
it all across the country because this isn't something that should be protected and i'm not

942
01:43:22,400 --> 01:43:27,600
trying to make any money off this if anything it shows that i have uh poor business acumen of

943
01:43:27,600 --> 01:43:31,760
prowess because we liquidated our assets to get it up and going and i don't want any money back

944
01:43:32,320 --> 01:43:37,360
i would rather die penniless and peaceful knowing that we save firefighters lives their marriages

945
01:43:37,360 --> 01:43:43,120
that there's a kid or a child out there that their father or their mother can walk them down the aisle

946
01:43:43,120 --> 01:43:47,360
because they were able to get peer support they were able to get a clinician that got them and

947
01:43:47,360 --> 01:43:54,480
they were able to be uh instructed and guided to be resilient to me that's serving my life's purpose

948
01:43:54,480 --> 01:44:00,160
not making a dollar money's just dirty ass rotten money i don't need any of it yeah you couldn't

949
01:44:00,160 --> 01:44:03,920
put a dollar amount on on the effect this is going to happen anyway i tell you right right now

950
01:44:03,920 --> 01:44:10,320
well we uh i agree with that and we're turning uh we'll be turning the process over we have a blue

951
01:44:10,320 --> 01:44:14,400
line rescue that's already slated for law enforcement because there is no bones about

952
01:44:14,400 --> 01:44:19,680
it firefighters law enforcement officers are two different breeds we see we're all on the same

953
01:44:19,680 --> 01:44:23,440
calls but the way that firefighters law enforcement officers as we're looking through evidence-based

954
01:44:23,440 --> 01:44:29,920
protocol react and interact are notably different so we're creating the blue line rescue for law

955
01:44:29,920 --> 01:44:34,560
enforcement and frontline rescue to be turned over to the department of defense for all veterans

956
01:44:35,520 --> 01:44:41,200
that's fantastic now let's let's talk about where where to access the red line rescue and then i

957
01:44:41,200 --> 01:44:46,880
also want to then go on to if you're outside the state of florida where is your best resource for

958
01:44:46,880 --> 01:44:53,200
now if you're looking to find help in the same realm of counselors that we've been talking about

959
01:44:53,200 --> 01:44:59,840
well right now what we're doing is we have the basically the red line rescue 1.0 the 2.0 is the

960
01:44:59,840 --> 01:45:06,320
algorithm method that we just discussed that will be up and fully functioning and live at the end

961
01:45:06,320 --> 01:45:13,600
of this year beginning of january is the target part of the phasing plan the red line rescue 1.0

962
01:45:13,600 --> 01:45:19,600
which allows you to have active lists of peer-to-peer providers that are vetted and have gone through the

963
01:45:19,600 --> 01:45:25,600
process and the populated active list of clinicians that we're building almost daily will be available

964
01:45:25,600 --> 01:45:32,320
on the florida firefighter safety and health collaborative site and that will be available under

965
01:45:32,320 --> 01:45:37,520
the mental wellness tab which we just had our meeting yesterday for finalizing the web design

966
01:45:37,520 --> 01:45:42,800
rollout the site is up and live however the red line rescue will not be live until january

967
01:45:42,800 --> 01:45:51,200
the way to access and recreate this is we're giving away the vetting process the core course

968
01:45:51,200 --> 01:45:58,960
and basically the step-by-step process of how to create a safety and health collaborative

969
01:45:58,960 --> 01:46:04,960
how to identify and illuminate your map we're giving those steps away on the florida firefighter

970
01:46:04,960 --> 01:46:14,880
safety and health collaborative site as well as providing the mechanism on how to reproduce this

971
01:46:15,840 --> 01:46:23,440
so that's what's amazing about this organization is the cookbook and how to is available at no

972
01:46:23,440 --> 01:46:31,760
cost so we encourage all of these entities and i believe we do have in your area we have our

973
01:46:31,760 --> 01:46:38,160
physical fitness portion representative along with what you do there on the safety and health

974
01:46:38,160 --> 01:46:43,680
collaborative site have you had the opportunity to go on the site yet i just saw it release the

975
01:46:43,680 --> 01:46:48,480
other day i haven't accessed it yet just because i was on a trip out here to texas where we're

976
01:46:48,480 --> 01:46:54,240
doing the the interview from but when i get back i'll be delving in and then and then sharing that

977
01:46:54,240 --> 01:46:58,880
hell out of that too excellent excellent and that's how we adjust this and utilize this for

978
01:46:58,880 --> 01:47:04,720
already working with the state of california where they're emulating our setup and our model of the

979
01:47:04,720 --> 01:47:10,000
collaborative approach sharing everything from like the different facets which we have the

980
01:47:10,000 --> 01:47:16,720
physical fitness facet getting out the the different ways for healthy eating lifestyle changes

981
01:47:16,720 --> 01:47:21,280
exercise plans all of these things that people typically have to pay for we're laying out there

982
01:47:21,280 --> 01:47:28,240
at no cost the cancer side we have some of the things that we're doing that we're doing

983
01:47:28,240 --> 01:47:35,040
that sam eaton and vicki shepherd who are absolutely fantastic they're part of the face team

984
01:47:35,040 --> 01:47:40,640
and the working with university of miami and silvester comprehensive cancer center and and the fci

985
01:47:41,520 --> 01:47:47,280
for really talking about clean cab concept creating the model on how to do it giving the after scene

986
01:47:47,280 --> 01:47:54,080
decon sops and and not charging for it not saying hey you want us to come in and teach this we're

987
01:47:54,080 --> 01:48:00,480
going to charge you a thousand dollars a day no here it is editable document plug in your department's

988
01:48:00,480 --> 01:48:05,280
name use it we're here to save lives so we encourage for those who are trying to do this

989
01:48:05,920 --> 01:48:12,960
to take that multiple modality approach so we have the physical side we have the health and safety

990
01:48:12,960 --> 01:48:19,120
we have the cancer side we have the general safety side and then we have the mental wellness side

991
01:48:19,120 --> 01:48:24,880
so our team is absolutely uh astounding and i would encourage you guys to go on the florida

992
01:48:24,880 --> 01:48:30,160
firefighter safety and health collaborative site which is florida firefighter safety dot org that's

993
01:48:30,160 --> 01:48:38,720
florida firefighter safety all one word dot org you sign up it's no cost it gives you all access

994
01:48:38,720 --> 01:48:46,480
and to all of the sops sogs white paper study evidence-based programs and you have the ability

995
01:48:46,480 --> 01:48:53,600
if you have an sop or a program or a protocol or a special committee that has been established

996
01:48:53,600 --> 01:48:58,080
that you would like to share this is the platform to where you're not having to pay to share your

997
01:48:58,080 --> 01:49:02,800
information and it gives you the mechanism and vehicle to share it across the state and that's

998
01:49:02,800 --> 01:49:09,360
one across the nation that's why it's just so amazing to see entities like the bureau of training

999
01:49:09,360 --> 01:49:15,360
and standards and state fire marshals office the florida fire chiefs which has been fantastic one

1000
01:49:15,360 --> 01:49:23,120
of the committees that we we chair as a team is supported by the head of the committee which is

1001
01:49:23,120 --> 01:49:29,040
uh chief frank babnick of coral springs fire rescue has just been amazing in supporting

1002
01:49:29,040 --> 01:49:33,760
captain chris beder who's the head of the president of the organization and really just

1003
01:49:34,720 --> 01:49:39,680
fast tracking this and seeing it supported across the board has been neat because when you're

1004
01:49:39,680 --> 01:49:44,400
talking these major five entities of the fire service they typically don't get together and

1005
01:49:44,400 --> 01:49:49,760
work on one common goal they don't so to see bureau of training of standards state fire marshals office

1006
01:49:49,760 --> 01:49:57,920
and uh cfo's office and florida fire chiefs and the iaff all come together for one cause which

1007
01:49:57,920 --> 01:50:03,200
has finally stopped protecting and being prohibitive of safety and health by saying hey we had this

1008
01:50:04,720 --> 01:50:09,280
proprietary idea that we're going to protect they finally came together and go you know what

1009
01:50:09,280 --> 01:50:15,440
that that that protective nature that we're having and trying to keep our tabs and claws on this

1010
01:50:15,440 --> 01:50:19,520
health and safety and mental wellness and physical fitness is ultimately costing firefighters lives

1011
01:50:19,520 --> 01:50:23,600
so let's all come together and put our heads together create the medium which is how the

1012
01:50:23,600 --> 01:50:29,520
florida firefighter safety and health collaborative was born was was share the information so others

1013
01:50:30,240 --> 01:50:34,720
aren't recreating the wheel you know so we can start moving forward instead of sitting here

1014
01:50:34,720 --> 01:50:40,800
spinning our wheels so we have an amazing partnership with all of these entities and

1015
01:50:41,440 --> 01:50:48,560
university of miami's team is really replicating what they did with the cancer initiative which to

1016
01:50:48,560 --> 01:50:56,400
me is all inspiring and love to have you connect with sam eaton and vicki shepherd and the university

1017
01:50:56,400 --> 01:51:00,720
of miami team to really talk about what's coming up next what their next study group is

1018
01:51:00,720 --> 01:51:05,360
and really get that information out there to all of our firefighters but the university of miami

1019
01:51:05,360 --> 01:51:12,480
team is blowing us away again by stepping up the dean of education has decided to head the committee

1020
01:51:12,480 --> 01:51:18,240
to create that eight-hour block hybrid program to help save our firefighters lives through education

1021
01:51:18,240 --> 01:51:28,800
and i'm just i'm deeply moved to see universities academia get involved in real life and that doesn't

1022
01:51:28,800 --> 01:51:34,880
and that doesn't it doesn't typically happen so it's pretty amazing to see them step out of that

1023
01:51:34,880 --> 01:51:40,560
that role and use their abilities and amazing talents to help educate firefighters so we can

1024
01:51:41,280 --> 01:51:47,200
we can truly truly benefit and learn from this perspective yeah well that's the testimony to you

1025
01:51:47,200 --> 01:51:51,600
in the collaborative though of orchestrating this and i think that's the theme that we've seen in so

1026
01:51:51,600 --> 01:51:57,360
many in the interviews so far is the people that are doing the real good they're removing the

1027
01:51:57,360 --> 01:52:01,840
element of trying to get rich from that concept and like you said it's disgusting that that would

1028
01:52:01,840 --> 01:52:08,000
even be a factor in in mental health and first responders but by getting them to realize that

1029
01:52:08,000 --> 01:52:13,680
and remove that dollar sign from the whole equation lo and behold you know we're getting

1030
01:52:13,680 --> 01:52:19,760
this amazing information in all elements from sleep deprivation to cancer to mental wellness and

1031
01:52:19,760 --> 01:52:25,040
i think people are realizing go make your money somewhere else radio straps whatever but leave

1032
01:52:25,040 --> 01:52:29,680
these issues alone because me making money off people's health is just not an ethical thing in

1033
01:52:29,680 --> 01:52:36,560
my opinion i couldn't agree more could not agree more all right brother well uh one more question

1034
01:52:36,560 --> 01:52:42,560
i just want to put out because i've had this i resubmitted uh the essay that i wrote a little

1035
01:52:42,560 --> 01:52:45,680
while ago knowing that you and i were going to have this conversation just kind of put it out

1036
01:52:45,680 --> 01:52:52,880
there prior to this airing next week um but again every time one of these goes out i get all these

1037
01:52:52,880 --> 01:52:58,080
these uh messages from people that exactly like you talked about the peer to peer even though it's

1038
01:52:58,080 --> 01:53:05,760
not an official um uh relationship people reach out to me and i'm more than happy to to to respond

1039
01:53:05,760 --> 01:53:11,440
with what little i know but one of the big questions i get a lot is how do i find uh a

1040
01:53:11,440 --> 01:53:19,280
counselor in my area for now pre redline rescue release that i i would know at least is the right

1041
01:53:19,280 --> 01:53:24,800
kind of person to sit down with is there any sort of list nationally at the moment any sort of uh

1042
01:53:24,800 --> 01:53:28,880
governing body that can least give them lists of local people that will be able to help

1043
01:53:30,160 --> 01:53:34,560
that's what we're working on right now because there is no standardized list um and that's

1044
01:53:34,560 --> 01:53:41,200
and that's why uh we are encouraging uh the individuals to uh assist in populating the

1045
01:53:41,200 --> 01:53:47,840
clinician awareness program uh student attendee uh signa has been fantastic in illuminating a map

1046
01:53:47,840 --> 01:53:54,880
across um we have two other eap providers that are currently in negotiations with on populating

1047
01:53:54,880 --> 01:53:58,320
their list and the reason that these lists aren't available and why we're creating them

1048
01:53:59,200 --> 01:54:06,320
is a lot of eap providers don't know who's on their provider log list and what their specialty

1049
01:54:06,320 --> 01:54:10,400
is they just know their licensor and that they're covered in network they don't know what their

1050
01:54:10,400 --> 01:54:15,040
skill set is with firefighters so that's why some of them really hold back when you call and they

1051
01:54:15,040 --> 01:54:19,440
give you just a rotation name just like you would for a wrecker when your car needs towing

1052
01:54:20,320 --> 01:54:24,320
because they don't know they just go down the list and do an eni mini money mo they don't have that

1053
01:54:24,320 --> 01:54:30,400
qa qi feedback so the list that we're looking at is going to be statewide at the current time

1054
01:54:31,120 --> 01:54:39,600
is available on the health and safety collaborative site and that's why we are expanding across the

1055
01:54:39,600 --> 01:54:44,880
three regions here in the state of florida to get with each individual department have them fill

1056
01:54:44,880 --> 01:54:51,760
out the clinician review sheet so we can rapidly populate the list of providers that are effective

1057
01:54:52,480 --> 01:54:59,120
in their areas okay brilliant well thank you for that well i'm going to transition now to a couple

1058
01:54:59,120 --> 01:55:04,160
of short questions before i do i just want to thank you i don't think i've had anyone

1059
01:55:05,760 --> 01:55:11,120
that i've interviewed yet a pull their heart out and be so courageous in the interview and obviously

1060
01:55:11,120 --> 01:55:16,320
some of them it doesn't dictate that in the first place but for you to reach out i can tell you right

1061
01:55:16,320 --> 01:55:23,200
now hand on my heart i know this 100 that this interview alone prior pre redline rescue and all

1062
01:55:23,200 --> 01:55:28,400
the incredible things that you guys have set up just your interview is going to touch so many

1063
01:55:28,400 --> 01:55:34,800
people and i'm pretty sure it's probably going to span the globe and that in itself is going to get

1064
01:55:34,800 --> 01:55:38,480
people thinking get people talking and redefine that and then you add the second layer of the

1065
01:55:38,480 --> 01:55:43,440
redline rescue and all the other things that you guys have put in place i truly think that

1066
01:55:44,000 --> 01:55:50,960
you know chief danger field and some of the other suicides that we had recently had really really

1067
01:55:50,960 --> 01:55:56,480
got people talking and then obviously the pulse shooting was a very hard-hitting local thing but

1068
01:55:57,840 --> 01:56:03,040
there was always the possibility that it would it would be big for a moment and then disappear

1069
01:56:03,040 --> 01:56:09,040
and nothing has happened you guys coincidentally with the timing have taken this tragedy and truly

1070
01:56:09,040 --> 01:56:13,600
turned it into something that is going to change our profession law enforcement hopefully even touch

1071
01:56:13,600 --> 01:56:22,880
military forever so i thank you so much for your courage and i can tell you right now that that the

1072
01:56:22,880 --> 01:56:28,400
tragedy that you've been through and the hardships there's no question in my mind that that strength

1073
01:56:28,400 --> 01:56:34,560
that you derive from that and that courage that you had is going to be paid forward exponentially

1074
01:56:34,560 --> 01:56:40,080
and i think i talk for everyone listening to this recording thank you so much for

1075
01:56:41,040 --> 01:56:48,160
for doing what you've done and and being the courageous soul that you are well brother i

1076
01:56:48,160 --> 01:56:59,360
thank you thank you for the kind words and i truly believe and i've had this talk many times with

1077
01:57:00,240 --> 01:57:06,480
with my wife and daughter and especially all of my brothers and sisters and this amazing team that

1078
01:57:06,480 --> 01:57:15,920
is the collaborative and all of its members is i no longer believe in in i that i only believe in

1079
01:57:15,920 --> 01:57:24,960
we and us and that when we when we armor ourselves with that thought process and truly

1080
01:57:26,400 --> 01:57:33,600
become as protective of one another through our actions through our words through our passion

1081
01:57:33,600 --> 01:57:39,840
and drive when we become as protective of one another as we are of ourselves there is no doubt

1082
01:57:39,840 --> 01:57:45,520
in my mind that our healing will begin and i thank each and every one of you my team on health and

1083
01:57:45,520 --> 01:57:53,360
safety collaborative for all of my brothers and sisters for my doctor dr keith ebel superhero of

1084
01:57:53,360 --> 01:58:04,880
mine for my wife and for my brother dave and all of the firefighters that have gone before us and

1085
01:58:04,880 --> 01:58:09,760
the ones that should come after of us i love each and every one of you amen to that mate

1086
01:58:09,760 --> 01:58:15,280
well let's uh let's ask a couple of the short fire questions because i would love to to hear the

1087
01:58:15,280 --> 01:58:19,520
answer to these from someone that's been through such an amazing journey i always ask people

1088
01:58:19,520 --> 01:58:24,720
firstly are there any books that you would recommend to people on any subject that you choose

1089
01:58:25,600 --> 01:58:35,600
absolutely the the very first one is perspective changes everything it's a book written by dr keith

1090
01:58:35,600 --> 01:58:45,600
ebel you can get it on amazon but perspective changes everything is really an amazing way to

1091
01:58:46,800 --> 01:58:54,080
shift our thought process from what we believe trauma is and changes it to what we can actually

1092
01:58:54,080 --> 01:59:01,760
do with it for for ourselves and for our families and it's truly an insight to a

1093
01:59:01,760 --> 01:59:10,720
a sound way of living the other one that i really really draw from is a guide to joy and a guide to

1094
01:59:10,720 --> 01:59:21,680
happiness from the dalai lama and just really truly can provide strength to any first responder

1095
01:59:22,560 --> 01:59:28,880
to assist in changing their view to a positive one so i'd say those three books would be it but

1096
01:59:28,880 --> 01:59:36,160
the first and foremost one is from keith ebel doctor perspective changes everything

1097
01:59:37,040 --> 01:59:43,440
because that's part of what helped save my life fantastic and what about movies and or documentary

1098
01:59:47,280 --> 01:59:51,280
movies okay um

1099
01:59:53,520 --> 01:59:57,360
you know i used to really like war movies but after this many years in this i don't like seeing

1100
01:59:57,360 --> 02:00:02,000
death anymore i have an odd one and i'll probably get my my rear end busted for this

1101
02:00:02,880 --> 02:00:13,040
but uh the curious case of benjamin button that's a fantastic film it uh it's it's wonderful um and

1102
02:00:13,040 --> 02:00:20,640
it's also bodes a shining light that we as first responders are offered the reverse perspective

1103
02:00:20,640 --> 02:00:30,080
of life of aging of pain of death of all struggles and we in essence um have the ability to take our

1104
02:00:31,200 --> 02:00:41,280
unique view and celebrate our life in that reverse aging process um and uh celebrate and do an

1105
02:00:41,280 --> 02:00:46,800
experience while we are young so i would have to say the curious case of benjamin button is a very

1106
02:00:46,800 --> 02:00:50,960
very inspirational movie i didn't know you were going to take this into the rapid fire weird

1107
02:00:50,960 --> 02:00:56,480
q a i can't guarantee all these questions are going to get uh normal now you guys want to finish

1108
02:00:56,480 --> 02:01:01,520
it you know the way we normally do and obviously the books in the movies are someone you know

1109
02:01:02,240 --> 02:01:07,040
the journey you've been through that would be an interesting thing so um all right and then uh i

1110
02:01:07,040 --> 02:01:12,160
know we talked about this before because you were about to do it when we spoke the other day but um

1111
02:01:12,160 --> 02:01:22,560
what do you do to decompress to blow off steam i garden um the uh not like vegetable gardening um

1112
02:01:22,560 --> 02:01:32,000
the uh long before i ever realized um why i garden um i had bought a orchid you know we all know

1113
02:01:32,000 --> 02:01:37,440
orchids is an orchid you know for firefighters to talk about flowers you know joke jokes are abound

1114
02:01:37,440 --> 02:01:45,600
um but um my uh my my wife and i were heavily invested in uh to a restaurant my wife uh ran

1115
02:01:45,600 --> 02:01:49,680
restaurant for her own personal restaurant for 18 years that she created when she first moved here

1116
02:01:49,680 --> 02:01:54,320
to florida and then we started working for a chain and got really heavily invested in our own

1117
02:01:54,320 --> 02:02:00,480
restaurant there and uh i just noticed that when i was coming home from uh the fire service uh you

1118
02:02:00,480 --> 02:02:05,520
know coming off shift you can only fish so much and uh i know some firefighters debate that but

1119
02:02:05,520 --> 02:02:11,680
you can only fish so much it's a fact um and i just wanted to distract uh my wife for a moment

1120
02:02:12,480 --> 02:02:16,400
and i bought this orchid and i saw on the bottom of it this little tag actually one of the lows

1121
02:02:16,400 --> 02:02:20,480
and it had this tag that said phalaenopsis on the bottom and i'm like god that's that's one hell of

1122
02:02:20,480 --> 02:02:26,000
a scrabble word man and i sounded like nemo trying to pronounce it you know and then then then to me

1123
02:02:26,000 --> 02:02:30,960
type thing and when my wife got home i had this beautiful purple phalaenopsis and i showed her

1124
02:02:30,960 --> 02:02:36,080
i said honey it's a phalaenopsis and for a moment she was just amazed at its beauty and i just

1125
02:02:36,720 --> 02:02:41,120
i i noted how much peace that brought me that i didn't worry about the calls i didn't worry

1126
02:02:41,120 --> 02:02:46,320
about what just happened only mattered was that moment it brought me into the present moment

1127
02:02:46,320 --> 02:02:51,360
and over the years uh we've slowly bought up all the other properties on either side of us and

1128
02:02:51,360 --> 02:02:58,080
expanded in our home uh is now a nationally registered botanical garden um we've uh got uh

1129
02:02:58,080 --> 02:03:04,640
uh damn near close to 800 different species on the property um we run an animal rescue center

1130
02:03:05,760 --> 02:03:10,960
uh rescuing parrots and and all kinds of different birds and things like that and um

1131
02:03:12,000 --> 02:03:17,440
what i found is is when i when i come back and i want to find inspiration for calm for center for

1132
02:03:17,440 --> 02:03:22,720
a meditative practice coming back and getting lost in our jungle and our home literally looks

1133
02:03:22,720 --> 02:03:31,920
looks like a rainforest um and spending you know five six seven hours um just trimming and

1134
02:03:31,920 --> 02:03:37,760
nurturing and and observing growth in life what i find is is it offers that perspective

1135
02:03:38,880 --> 02:03:46,720
things in nature are just as beautiful and uh is unpredictable and violent uh is what we experience

1136
02:03:46,720 --> 02:03:55,040
on the job um and it also can be calming so when i come home uh and i need to re-center picking up

1137
02:03:55,040 --> 02:04:02,400
a pair of trimmers throwing in some good uh stick figure or revolution or some bob marley and closing

1138
02:04:02,400 --> 02:04:09,280
the gates on the property and disappearing into the garden really allows me uh to celebrate the

1139
02:04:09,280 --> 02:04:14,960
gift it brings me back to that present moment like the very first time that i started learning

1140
02:04:14,960 --> 02:04:18,640
latin on an orchid you know a firefighter trying to learn latin on an orchid you know you're going

1141
02:04:18,640 --> 02:04:23,440
to get your balls busted around the kitchen table you know but now all the guys that i work with and

1142
02:04:23,440 --> 02:04:28,880
the people have encountered and come to our home realize that it's not just an eccentric hobby

1143
02:04:28,880 --> 02:04:35,840
it's it's part of something that um shows that a firefighter if they find a healthy habit okay

1144
02:04:35,840 --> 02:04:41,440
whether it's physical fitness whether it's gardening whether it's meditation whether it's communication

1145
02:04:41,440 --> 02:04:48,560
um that um it can bring you back to the present moment which is right now and you can use all of

1146
02:04:48,560 --> 02:04:55,200
the painful past that you've had um and not consume yourself with worrying about the future and the

1147
02:04:55,200 --> 02:04:59,120
things that haven't happened yet but use it to celebrate the things in your life that you're

1148
02:04:59,120 --> 02:05:05,760
surrounded with and and gardening is is that empowering meditative practice that i use and i

1149
02:05:05,760 --> 02:05:11,120
love it fantastic yeah i think that's uh that's definitely a common denominator is having that

1150
02:05:11,120 --> 02:05:17,840
passion and and finding that gratitude in the moment um and it's not forgetting or ignoring

1151
02:05:17,840 --> 02:05:23,040
what's happened and you know the things that we've seen but but again if you're in the truly in the

1152
02:05:23,040 --> 02:05:29,840
moment then those things don't exist at that point without a doubt there is no doubt about it and i

1153
02:05:29,840 --> 02:05:38,720
definitely appreciate uh the three tenses of time um which uh staying in that center in that moment

1154
02:05:39,600 --> 02:05:47,680
is is truly a um a healing and holistic tool absolutely all right mate well we have been

1155
02:05:47,680 --> 02:05:54,720
talking for two hours by far the longest podcast but um i i would say that um you know this is

1156
02:05:54,720 --> 02:05:59,920
probably the most powerful interview i've ever done the most powerful conversation i've ever had with

1157
02:05:59,920 --> 02:06:07,760
a human being at 43 years old so i'm so glad that we were able to do it um and uh like i said before

1158
02:06:07,760 --> 02:06:14,000
i think this is gonna it's gonna reach so many ears and ultimately hearts and and certainly be

1159
02:06:14,000 --> 02:06:17,680
part of that jigsaw puzzle along with all the other things that you and the collaborative do

1160
02:06:17,680 --> 02:06:24,400
in in changing and revolutionary revolutionizing our profession um and redefining it just like you

1161
02:06:24,400 --> 02:06:29,520
guys said right from the very beginning as when you enter the academy you know what what is a

1162
02:06:29,520 --> 02:06:35,040
firefighter you know and and getting rid of that macho facade bullshit that we've had for so many

1163
02:06:35,040 --> 02:06:40,960
years where you know talking about that stuff is a weakness because show me a veteran that isn't

1164
02:06:40,960 --> 02:06:44,800
torn up by the things that they've seen and we're no different absolutely absolutely the one thing

1165
02:06:44,800 --> 02:06:50,720
that i offered to uh whether it's uh peer support or somebody that i'm engaging in the chaplaincy

1166
02:06:50,720 --> 02:06:55,600
role or getting them to mental wellness the first thing caveat i give is said listen i'm the feelings

1167
02:06:55,600 --> 02:06:59,440
chaplain if you're looking for the baby jesus chaplain we can you know i'll get you somebody

1168
02:07:00,400 --> 02:07:05,040
but i'm the feelings guy and one of the things that i talk with them about is no matter what

1169
02:07:05,040 --> 02:07:10,400
career no matter how macho you think you are no matter how many type a adrenaline field you think

1170
02:07:10,400 --> 02:07:16,000
you are um here's the here's the reality of it you're a mammal okay we have a herd mentality we

1171
02:07:16,000 --> 02:07:21,360
don't like to be isolated and we like to be shown affection if we address those issues there with

1172
02:07:21,360 --> 02:07:27,280
kindness and compassion and say that look i'm a human being and it's okay to feel these emotions

1173
02:07:27,280 --> 02:07:32,240
as long as they're constructive and i need to share and talk about the ones that are taking away

1174
02:07:32,240 --> 02:07:36,160
from me brother you're a mammal you're not a superhero and if you want to do something that

1175
02:07:36,160 --> 02:07:41,840
superhero quality then i encourage and task you and every one of our brothers and sisters listening

1176
02:07:41,840 --> 02:07:49,040
with this talk about feelings talk about emotions if you feel like you need to cry it's okay embrace

1177
02:07:49,040 --> 02:07:53,920
one another with love because that human that you're sharing with may be going through a similar

1178
02:07:53,920 --> 02:07:58,800
struggle and can help you and you can help them together but don't ignore your feelings it's not

1179
02:07:58,800 --> 02:08:04,320
something to run from amen to that yeah especially i think that an area that people forget as well

1180
02:08:05,040 --> 02:08:11,440
is someone may be doing perfectly well until they find that you know their partner is cheating or

1181
02:08:11,440 --> 02:08:15,680
until the bank threatens to take their house and that could be the straw that break the camel's

1182
02:08:15,680 --> 02:08:22,480
back and even though you haven't seen some pediatric traumatic death in several years it may be some in

1183
02:08:22,480 --> 02:08:27,280
a home that actually finally breaks them that's it and that's what triggers that musical score

1184
02:08:27,280 --> 02:08:33,280
that we were talking about all of the notes are there and you build cumulatively those notes and

1185
02:08:33,280 --> 02:08:38,880
store them and you may think now the note is no longer vibrating it's no longer tuned playing

1186
02:08:38,880 --> 02:08:45,440
it's still there so when you get those triggers of home life finances marriage or disciplinary

1187
02:08:45,440 --> 02:08:49,600
type settings at work where it triggers that stress brother that orchestra has been there

1188
02:08:49,600 --> 02:08:54,560
i've heard firefighters say oh i file it away or i just don't let it bother me or i just don't think

1189
02:08:54,560 --> 02:08:59,040
about it what i can tell you is every time i hear one of those my bullshit meter goes off

1190
02:09:00,080 --> 02:09:07,600
because you you are the mathematical the sum of your life experiences to that moment so those

1191
02:09:07,600 --> 02:09:11,840
things don't just disappear they don't have to define you but they don't just disappear

1192
02:09:11,840 --> 02:09:17,200
they're there waiting patiently amen to that all right mate well i'm going to put all the

1193
02:09:17,200 --> 02:09:21,520
the links for the collaborative on the website and i will share the hell out of them as well

1194
02:09:22,160 --> 02:09:28,080
is there anywhere else anywhere else online that people can find you through the collaborative

1195
02:09:28,080 --> 02:09:34,720
site we have our access our contact information upcoming events and scheduling all available on

1196
02:09:34,720 --> 02:09:39,680
the site that is the best way to get a hold of us and that's the link will be available on your

1197
02:09:39,680 --> 02:09:46,160
site but it's floridafirefightersafety.org okay mate well i will put that up there and as many

1198
02:09:46,160 --> 02:09:53,440
corners of the internet as i can possibly cram it but thank you so much again i'm going to let you

1199
02:09:53,440 --> 02:10:01,120
go now i'm sure you're probably starving and we will talk again face to face in the collaborative

1200
02:10:01,120 --> 02:10:07,440
and i just thank you again for such a candid and courageous interview well thank you for your time

1201
02:10:07,440 --> 02:10:11,760
i'm honored for what you do for all of our brothers and sisters getting that information out there

1202
02:10:12,560 --> 02:10:18,320
and i do i'm one of the ones that has got your website link there on the ipad on the computer

1203
02:10:18,320 --> 02:10:22,000
and i love checking you out and seeing what you're doing and what's coming next so thank you for

1204
02:10:22,000 --> 02:10:38,000
everything you do much love to you and have a peaceful day all right brother you stay safe