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This episode is sponsored by BeaverFit.

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And as always, this is another company

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that I've not only been aware of for several years,

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but I also completely trust

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and I know is a great fit for this audience.

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Having not only been a firefighter in my career,

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but also a strength and conditioning coach,

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I've seen the challenges that we have

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getting the tactical athlete fit

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when it comes to budgets, when it comes to space.

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And BeaverFit has solutions for so many of our challenges.

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When it comes to space, they have the gym box, for example,

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which is literally the size of a foot locker

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that when you open it up and build it,

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becomes a squat rack, a pull-up bar, a box,

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and even a war ball target.

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So you can get a full workout for a crew

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purely on that one box.

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Expanding out, they have storage containers

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that become entire gyms.

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You store everything in the inside

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and you can then deploy racks

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and pull-up bars on the outside.

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They have gyms on trailers

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you can take from station to station.

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They have tactical boxes with breaching props

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and collapse props.

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And then on the flip side,

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the durability is another issue that we see.

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So often departments buy the low bid.

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They are the cheapest they can find.

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And ultimately that hard earned wellness budget

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gets wasted in equipment that rusts and falls apart.

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BeaverFit's gear is designed to be used

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in the most extreme environments,

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whether it's the deserts of the Middle East

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or simply on the deck of a naval ship.

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So they are designed to not only be outside,

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but to be beaten up by some of the most elite operators

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on the planet.

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If you wanna hear more about this company

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and I'm sure you do,

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listen to episode 477 with the original founder,

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Tom Beaver from the UK

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or the founders of BeaverFit USA,

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Alex Rudehouse and Mike Taylor on episode 457.

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Or visit BeaverFit USA

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and click on the military and tactical tab.

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Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast.

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As always, my name's James Gearing

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and this week it is my absolute honor

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to welcome back onto the show,

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Kevin Berthier and Kevin Briggs.

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Now you may recognize those names

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from a famous picture on the Golden Gate Bridge

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when a California highway patrolman

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is talking to a young man in crisis

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standing the wrong side of the railing.

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Now I was absolutely honored to have Kevin Berthier

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as my guest on episode 436

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and that CHP officer Kevin Briggs on episode 371.

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With this being World Mental Health Day,

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there is no better episode to put out

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than this discussion where these two men came together

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on the Behind the Shield podcast

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to discuss their individual journeys

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and that incredible moment where their two paths met

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and the friendship that was forged after.

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So before we get to this incredibly powerful

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and important conversation,

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as I say every week,

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please just take a moment.

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Go to whichever app you listen to this on,

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subscribe to the show,

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leave feedback and leave a rating.

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Every single five star rating

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truly does elevate this podcast,

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therefore making it easier for others to find.

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And this is a free library of almost 1000 episodes now.

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So all I ask in return is that you help share

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these incredible men and women stories

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so I can get them to every single person

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on planet earth who needs to hear them.

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So with that being said,

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I welcome back onto the show,

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Kevin Berthier and Kevin Briggs.

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Enjoy.

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Okay, well, Kevin and Kevin,

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I wanna thank you so, so much for coming back

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onto the Behind the Shield podcast.

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Kevin Berthier, you were episode 436

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and Kevin Briggs, 371.

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So we're talking four plus years ago now.

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So I wanna begin just by welcoming you back onto the show.

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Thank you, man, we're glad to be here.

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Tremendously grateful to be here.

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I would love to start the kind of the beginning

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of each of your timelines.

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We're gonna walk through not as deeply as we did before,

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but then obviously get to March 11th

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and then kind of walk through

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the kind of post-traumatic growth journey

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after that as well.

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So Kevin Briggs, let's start with you.

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Talk to me about when you reflect on early life,

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what were the beautiful parts of your childhood

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and what were some of the elements that you consider

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contributed to some of the struggles later in life?

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You know, I had a great upbringing.

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Grew up in Marin County,

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which is just north of the Golden Gate Bridge,

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upper middle class.

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That really was, I had, you know, my parents

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and three siblings.

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So it was great.

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I had a very good childhood.

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It really was.

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Well, there was a major issue,

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some abuse by a neighbor when I was eight to 10 years old

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that is very haunting and very brutal.

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But, you know, on the other side of that

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with just my parents and my siblings and stuff,

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it was great, great friends,

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no complaints whatsoever.

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What I found, especially a lot of us in uniform,

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when there is a mental health struggle,

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people immediately go,

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well, Kevin was there with all the suicides on the bridge

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or James was there at that horrible car wreck

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where that little kid was killed.

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And we forget that, you know,

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we were a human being from in vitro on to now.

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And there was a large part of our life

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prior to the uniform.

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I think some of those struggles,

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if processed well can become resilience in uniform,

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but if they're shoved down and not dealt with,

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they can become a fracture to our foundation.

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You mentioned about this beautiful family unit you have,

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but obviously a pretty significant trauma

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through this neighbor.

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When you reflect now with this mature lens,

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what impact did that healthy family life have

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on allowing you to process that trauma

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that you had with the neighbor?

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I didn't process it.

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I kept things separate.

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You know, this wasn't one time.

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It was very brutal.

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And it was over the span of a couple of years.

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My family didn't know about it.

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I hid this for 45 years.

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And it still significantly impacts me today.

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It impacts me more than the testicular cancer I had,

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more than the three heart surgeries,

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more than the brain trauma,

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my mother passing at age 49, all these things.

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But you know what?

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When you hurt somebody like that,

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it's very difficult to get rid of that.

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So until I wanted to really step into this

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and go, I am gonna talk about it

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and deal with this and get some help,

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then it started to get better.

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But it still, it impacts my life.

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Staying with you, Kevin, for a moment,

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one of the real, I mean, just heartbreaking realizations

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after hundreds and hundreds of interviews now

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is how prevalent sexual and or domestic abuse is

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in a lot of our young people,

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totally vulnerable and absolutely preyed upon

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by some of these horrendous humans.

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As you started speaking to more and more and more people

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that had been through their own struggles,

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did you see more and more childhoods

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similar to what you'd experienced?

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I really did.

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And some people did not wanna talk about it.

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And I was pushed to talk about it by movie producers.

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Oh, we gotta talk about this.

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And you know, and focus on it.

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And I go, no, I am not ready to talk about it.

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But when I was, I'm surprised, I really am,

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about how many people will come up to me,

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they are not ready to talk about it.

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But they'll talk about it to me,

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just to mention it, to get it off of their chest.

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But they say, you know what, don't tell anybody,

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don't bring this up.

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I just wanna let you know what happened to me.

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I said, when you're ready to talk about it, talk about it.

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But please make it sooner than later

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so you can get some help.

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There is some really neat stuff out there.

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Absolutely.

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Well, I think this is the thing about these conversations.

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I've got Navy SEALs and SAS soldiers and police and fire

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and all other walks of life talking about it now.

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So I think this is a beautiful thing

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about the podcast medium is courageous,

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vulnerable men like yourselves coming out

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and putting your story out there is opening the door

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for other people to talk about that abuse

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and realize that they were a victim,

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that they shouldn't be ashamed,

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shouldn't have guilt about the part that they played

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in this predatory action.

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Absolutely correct.

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But even though I know this and people tell me this,

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it's still very, very difficult.

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It's shameful, which it shouldn't be.

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Wasn't my fault, but boy, that's hard to get in your head,

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especially, and I was in the army

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and did the paratrooper thing

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and then worked in corrections and the higher patrol,

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all these macho jobs where you don't show a weakness

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and you really, you can't.

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So it's a tough one.

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It's a work in progress and I'm 61.

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It's a work in progress.

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One more question to you and then we'll switch to Kevin.

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I don't even have to refer to you guys, Kevin, but the,

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you have this kind of, you know,

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veteran element when it comes to law enforcement,

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as you said, you've been in the military,

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you've been in corrections, you've been in highway patrol.

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When you look back now, what is it

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that you think is contributing

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to so many sexual predators in society?

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Because it seems to be, as they're pulling this curtain back,

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so much worse than people thought.

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Wow, that is a tough question.

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That really is, whether it's something genetic

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that is flawed, whatever that may be,

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I don't have the answers on this,

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but boy, it certainly is, you're taking lives away.

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For those of you who have done this,

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and I'm hoping there's none on this podcast, you know,

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but you're taking, you took my life.

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You scarred me, you know, it's very hard for me

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to hug people, you ruin people by doing this.

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You really do.

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Absolutely.

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Well, again, thank you for your vulnerability now.

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Kevin Berthier, let's start at the very beginning of your journey.

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So I know your childhood dynamic,

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as far as the family element, was a lot different.

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So talk to me about your early life and some of the traumas

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that contributed to you, for example, finding yourself on the bridge that day.

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Early life for me is a little different.

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My mom, she knew because I paid attention

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to everything that was going on in life,

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she had to, you know, be honest with me and tell me that I was adopted.

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So as early as age, probably five, I knew, you know,

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it wasn't something that she waited for.

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So that was good because they built the trust and bond within us.

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But it kind of made me look at everything else and question everything else

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in my life, because here I was born and raised into an African-American community.

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And I was the one that only one that was adopted.

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And it kind of it was it was triggering for me to go out into the world

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and watch people that looked alike and they matched up.

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I know I didn't look like anybody in my family.

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And it's just I knew I had to.

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People thought that, you know, from the outside looking in,

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but from the inside looking out, I knew that I didn't belong here.

266
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And so it was very triggering for me trying to figure out my way

267
00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:30,160
and try to figure out, well, why?

268
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Oh, why me? Why? Why did they?

269
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Why did I have to get given up for?

270
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And why did why did I?

271
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Well, where's my family? Are they looking for me?

272
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So just all the different questions.

273
00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:42,440
I mean, as a child, you already questioned, why am I here?

274
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What is my purpose?

275
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And so to have all these other different whys that, you know,

276
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kind of those are a lot of contributing to a lot of stress.

277
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And as a kid, I shouldn't have to worry about, you know, all these different things.

278
00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:57,320
And that was very triggering for me growing up.

279
00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:03,400
I heard you both on, I think it was called Hope is My Middle Name podcast.

280
00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:04,840
Very, very good interviewers.

281
00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:07,200
It was amazing, the two of you again a few years ago now.

282
00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:11,240
But you made a comment on that that I thought was so pertinent

283
00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:12,720
because it's part of the solution.

284
00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:15,760
You said a lot of African-American households,

285
00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:19,160
if the parents themselves aren't able to take care of their child,

286
00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:21,560
then it would be an auntie or a grandmother.

287
00:12:21,560 --> 00:12:25,120
And you don't hear about that so much in some of the other cultures.

288
00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:27,360
So talk to me about that, because I think that that, you know,

289
00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:31,640
it takes a village, that multi-generational household is something from,

290
00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:35,120
you know, history that I think we've got away from that is very powerful.

291
00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:39,480
Yeah, I mean, I think I think that for me, it's a two part thing,

292
00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:44,920
because for me, growing up, it was hard for me to identify

293
00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:50,160
how not only did a mother and father give me up, how a whole family,

294
00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:56,160
because I watched other in our community, the whole family takes part in the journey of,

295
00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:58,840
you know, kind of kind of molding this child.

296
00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:00,520
It's not just the mother and father.

297
00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:04,520
You have the aunt, the aunt, uncle, you have the grandmother, the grandmother.

298
00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:07,720
The grandfather, that's just part of our culture.

299
00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:13,840
So it is very, it's very important because a parent is not always around.

300
00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:19,320
I mean, a child is at school, a child goes to his friend, a child is in the community.

301
00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:23,600
And it's a community of people that watch, look after this child.

302
00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:27,720
That's why for me, it was hard for me to understand how not only did a mother

303
00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:32,200
and father give me up, a whole family gave me up for adoption.

304
00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:34,000
Yeah, I mean, such a powerful perspective.

305
00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:37,800
And one of the phrases I hear a lot is, you know, don't ever compare trauma.

306
00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:41,000
And so you have, you know, a young boy who was adopted,

307
00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:44,200
and then you've got a young boy who was sexually abused by a neighbor.

308
00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:46,600
You'd be like, oh, well, you know, that's worse than the other.

309
00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:52,600
But the number of people I know, one parent left, both parents left, both parents left,

310
00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:56,200
excuse me, they were adopted, they were fostered, whatever the dynamic was,

311
00:13:56,600 --> 00:14:02,000
that feeling of why wasn't I good enough, clearly is equally important.

312
00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:08,000
And that's why I think that trauma is equally as traumatic as, you know, in the overall,

313
00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:11,800
you know, impact as a sexual abuse, domestic abuse, that kind of thing.

314
00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:15,600
I'd agree with you 100% on that one.

315
00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:20,200
Yeah. James, as you said, these traumas may be different.

316
00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:26,800
You know, a head trauma or a diagnosis of cancer or a heart issues or being adopted.

317
00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:29,800
All of these, of course, they're quite different.

318
00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:34,800
It is quite different. So that's why, for instance, when I'm up,

319
00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:39,200
was on that bridge talking to folks, I didn't compare all these things that happened to me.

320
00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:42,600
Or say, you know what, look what happened to me and oh, poor me, poor me.

321
00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:45,800
No, because it is about that individual. That's what this is about.

322
00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:51,800
So when Kevin and I talk, it is about the audience and is it about the people there?

323
00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:53,000
You know, yeah, it's our stories.

324
00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:57,400
But what kind of takeaways can we give now and what can we provide?

325
00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:02,800
So I think that's what the issue is here is, yeah, we've been through it and we're getting help.

326
00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:06,000
We want you to be happy also. And that's what this is about.

327
00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:13,000
I think that all I was going to add was that the other different,

328
00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:18,000
but we both are questioning why I'm questioning why me,

329
00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:21,600
why me, why I get adopted and sexually being sexually assaulted.

330
00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:25,200
I'm sure he's questioning why me, why am I being sex?

331
00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:27,400
So it's just the same why.

332
00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:33,800
And I think that we want to, we've got to get, be careful trying to compare because it is the same.

333
00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:37,400
We both are young trying to figure out why.

334
00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:43,200
And so I think that that's a connection piece that people miss.

335
00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:46,200
Absolutely. We'll stay in with you, Kevin Bathier.

336
00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:50,400
Talk to me then again, you had, if my memory serves me right,

337
00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:57,800
a good family dynamic with these adopted parents, but then a divorce came into play and then it fractured everything again.

338
00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:01,400
Yeah, everything was pretty, I had a solid family dynamic.

339
00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:07,000
My mom, my dad, two older sisters, very structured, very stable.

340
00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:14,600
And that was pretty much that carried me from the time that I figured out that I was adopted into about age 13 until my parents divorced,

341
00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:18,400
which pretty much at 13 was the first time that I actually felt adopted

342
00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:23,200
because when my parents split, it changed the dynamic and I was forced to kind of pick a parent.

343
00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:29,600
And it just changed the whole dynamic in our house and everything about our family dynamic was completely changed.

344
00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:31,400
I mean, nothing was the same anymore.

345
00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:37,800
And that's when I felt alone and I can go back to that feeling and saying that's when the first time in my life,

346
00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:42,200
I've felt that I've been feeling alone since then.

347
00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:44,400
With that feeling of being on your own,

348
00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:49,600
which again, I think, you know, would argue the hierarchy of needs comes from, you know, safety and security.

349
00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:55,600
What impact did that have on your mental health as you started getting into your teens and beyond?

350
00:16:55,600 --> 00:17:01,800
I mean, it completely destroyed how I looked at life and how I thought about things.

351
00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:11,000
And I think that that structure is needed moving forward as far as, you know, you're hit with different things as you grow up.

352
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:16,600
And if you're mentally not prepared and having that structure and having that positive background to help you,

353
00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:21,400
you're kind of just kind of just taking all these things on and kind of trying to figure out how to do it on your own.

354
00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:26,800
That being alone feeling caused me to go through life thinking that I'm doing everything by myself.

355
00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:35,800
And that was a huge contributing factor because isolation is a huge issue when it comes to being depressive and being overwhelmed.

356
00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:39,400
I mean, you start isolating and feeling alone going to make you feel isolated.

357
00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:43,600
So I think that that is a huge contributing factor.

358
00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:47,800
Absolutely. Well, Kevin, let's bring you kind of back into the timeline.

359
00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:50,600
You mentioned being in the military, then you went into corrections.

360
00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:55,000
So let's say let's talk about the kind of front door for CHP.

361
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:59,400
So you went to the California Highway Patrol at that point.

362
00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:03,600
Tell me about the level of training that you had when it came to mental health.

363
00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:13,000
And obviously, you know, the crisis element when you when you meet someone in the street that is clearly suffering or even trying to take their own life.

364
00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:18,200
To be blunt with you, James, the level of training was was nearly zero.

365
00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:21,800
It wasn't much at all. It really wasn't.

366
00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:25,600
Yeah, you know, there was a lot to be desired back then.

367
00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:27,800
This was this was 1990.

368
00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:31,600
So, you know, it was some time ago.

369
00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:35,600
Yeah, it wasn't much at all, if anything.

370
00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:42,600
So it was tough. So as you progress through, obviously, you start developing your own toolbox.

371
00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:58,600
But were there any kind of people in crisis that you remember where initially you felt ill prepared and that kind of pushed you to start discovering how to find this toolbox, how to find this training to be able to communicate with these people?

372
00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:06,400
Every single person that I spoke with taught me something because I would ask them, you know, what did I do that helped this situation out?

373
00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:09,600
And what did I do that maybe I can improve on that?

374
00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:14,600
And and I did go through crisis intervention team training, CIT.

375
00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:20,800
But that was some years into being on the highway patrol and then way later through the FBI crisis negotiator school.

376
00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:24,800
But this should have taken place before I stepped foot on that bridge.

377
00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:28,600
You know, I'm not talking about myself, I'm talking about the folks we talked to.

378
00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:33,500
We're there to protect and serve. Well, if you're not trained, how are you going to do that properly?

379
00:19:33,500 --> 00:19:38,300
So we Kevin and I, we get this chance to go out and speak.

380
00:19:38,300 --> 00:19:43,000
Now, we're going to be at Mesa PD here in a bit talking to them about this.

381
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:46,800
And we welcome any opportunity because it's a chance to share ideas.

382
00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:49,500
We speak to them. They talk to us some different things.

383
00:19:49,500 --> 00:19:58,200
So it's about growing for all of us and how to communicate with someone who may be in crisis.

384
00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:04,600
What was the prevalence of suicide attempts or completed suicide through your career?

385
00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:10,600
And was there was there an increase in it or was it just so many already that people were oblivious to?

386
00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:16,200
As far as on the bridge or I mean, just in your career in general, but obviously on the bridge as well.

387
00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:20,600
Generally, suicides go up most years, a couple of years has been down.

388
00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:26,400
But in the United States, we're losing around 49,000 people a year to suicide,

389
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:32,800
no more than traffic accidents, more than homicides, mental health professionals.

390
00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:35,400
That profession is way down as well as doctors.

391
00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:41,400
You know, we need a lot more of those folks. That's a that's a tough line of employment, though, to do this.

392
00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:47,600
So, you know, kind of suicides are on the rise and the mental health professionals is going down.

393
00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:53,800
So we have a lot to work a lot of work to do as a society.

394
00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:57,800
We lose 40,000 people a year on the roads.

395
00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:05,300
So there's you know, I'm assuming there's probably hundreds of thousands that have life threatening or life changing injuries as well.

396
00:21:05,300 --> 00:21:08,400
We lose 49,000 people to suicide.

397
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:15,600
We have double, sometimes triple the amount of suicides in uniform than we do other classified line of duty deaths.

398
00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:24,200
Why is it that this isn't front and center in, for example, this political campaign or any other area at the moment?

399
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:29,400
You know, I would have to say money, financial, there's not a lot of money in this.

400
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:32,200
And when there's not a lot of money in it, it's not going to get a lot of attention.

401
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,400
It's not glorious, that kind of thing.

402
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:41,800
So it's not getting the funding as you're going to hear an outcry if the roads are all bad.

403
00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:44,600
And they are. They're work in progress.

404
00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:52,800
But, you know, you hear a lot more about a murder than somebody who completed a suicide.

405
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:59,600
So until we can turn this around and put more focus on it and people think, you know, if we're going to talk about this suicide, we're going to raise the numbers.

406
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:01,700
No, we're not.

407
00:22:01,700 --> 00:22:06,200
We need to talk about this and how to have this conversation.

408
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:16,300
Yeah, I think the other kind of nauseating irony is when we have a shooting in a school, it's all over the international media.

409
00:22:16,300 --> 00:22:23,900
But all the young people that shoot each other in gangs all over the UK, all over the US, barely even make some news.

410
00:22:23,900 --> 00:22:31,900
And, you know, it's literally picking and choosing the kind of child death that is cool or, you know, popular in the media.

411
00:22:31,900 --> 00:22:40,400
But arguably, we lose a lot more kids in gang shootings on the streets of the same exact age than we do in our schools.

412
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:45,000
And that's because in the old days, we would say it sells papers.

413
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,100
Now it's going to sell commercials.

414
00:22:47,100 --> 00:22:50,400
It's going to get people to watch that because they want to see what's going on.

415
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,400
So they're going where the money is.

416
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:54,700
That's what it goes around.

417
00:22:54,700 --> 00:22:57,000
Yeah, unfortunately.

418
00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:04,700
Absolutely. Well, before we go back to your journey, Kevin, the theory, have you got anything to add on the last couple of things we just spoke about?

419
00:23:04,700 --> 00:23:09,600
Yeah, I mean, I just think 100 percent is the politics of it.

420
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:15,800
It's a business. This country is a business is made, you know, money runs, runs the country.

421
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:22,200
You think about suicide, you think about the facets of suicide or the facets of depression, right?

422
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:30,500
When somebody's mentally ill, they need therapy, which costs they need medicine, which costs they have to go to the hospital, which costs.

423
00:23:30,500 --> 00:23:36,100
And if they die, that costs insurance funeral costs.

424
00:23:36,100 --> 00:23:47,300
So it's easier to allow somebody to die or allow somebody to struggle in this country because it's a financially a game to watch people suffer.

425
00:23:47,300 --> 00:23:51,900
That's just the reality. I mean, I hate to say it, but it's just the reality because whether they were there.

426
00:23:51,900 --> 00:23:54,700
When they're suffering, that's a financial gain.

427
00:23:54,700 --> 00:23:57,200
And then when they lose their loss, it's a financial gain.

428
00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:00,700
We're not thinking about the emotional toll on society.

429
00:24:00,700 --> 00:24:04,300
We thinking about the financial side and because that's how this country is ran.

430
00:24:04,300 --> 00:24:08,200
It's not ran by emotions is ran by finances.

431
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,600
I think where it's most prevalent is the addiction crisis.

432
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:20,300
We know if you look at and I've talked about this so many times on the show, but it's interesting because almost all the law enforcement guests agree with the fact that the war on drugs,

433
00:24:20,300 --> 00:24:23,600
the prohibition of drugs has just been an epic failure.

434
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:32,400
And if you look at the amount of money that's costing and yet we're getting more gangs and more homelessness and more overdoses.

435
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:34,500
At what point do we say, hey, enough is enough.

436
00:24:34,500 --> 00:24:35,700
Let's be proactive.

437
00:24:35,700 --> 00:24:41,600
So, for example, Portugal realized this in a very short amount of time, way shorter than the US.

438
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:49,700
And they took a lot of their money from the war on drugs and they put it into creation of mental health counseling, addiction counseling, job creation, housing.

439
00:24:49,700 --> 00:24:52,800
And they reversed their crisis in less than 10 years.

440
00:24:52,800 --> 00:25:03,000
But exactly what you're saying, you know, we have, for example, 70% of our population is obese or overweight and drug companies profit from that.

441
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:10,200
If we didn't have hypertension and diabetes and some of these other things, the drug companies would lose billions, if not trillions.

442
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:21,800
So where is the push to proactively make people healthier physically and mentally when, as you said, a lot of companies are profiting from that misery?

443
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:23,100
You're absolutely correct.

444
00:25:23,100 --> 00:25:26,100
And when you're talking about the food, look at the fast food.

445
00:25:26,100 --> 00:25:34,600
It's much easier to stop by one of those places than it is to go to the grocery store, pay some high prices and then come back and have to prepare it yourself.

446
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:35,700
So this is what we get.

447
00:25:35,700 --> 00:25:44,300
We get these low value, high color foods and then you sit down and watch TV the next few hours and I'm right there with them.

448
00:25:44,300 --> 00:25:47,300
I really have a work in progress.

449
00:25:47,300 --> 00:25:51,600
But that is our society for a lot of folks.

450
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:53,500
It is.

451
00:25:53,500 --> 00:25:57,100
Absolutely. Anything to add, Kevin, with the.

452
00:25:57,100 --> 00:25:59,600
No, it's pretty much it.

453
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:05,000
All right. We're staying with you, Kevin, but then you you mentioned now, obviously, post divorce.

454
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:08,400
You know, your your stability has been fractured by that point.

455
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:12,200
Your identity arguably has been fractured by that point.

456
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,700
I know standing on that bridge was not the first suicide attempt.

457
00:26:15,700 --> 00:26:22,800
So what was that kind of downward spiral that ultimately led to you standing on the Golden Gate Bridge?

458
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:32,000
Like I say, right after I was done, I pretty much felt alone and I started handling my I completely changed how I handled my mental health at the age of 13.

459
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:36,600
My parents split 14 years old was my first suicide attempt.

460
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:44,800
Before that, I only had ideations, only had, you know, you know, chronic, chronic, chronic thoughts, but not attempt.

461
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,400
And 14, when I finally attempt, see, it's different.

462
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:51,100
I tell people all the time you can think about suicide every day all day.

463
00:26:51,100 --> 00:26:52,800
But the moment you attempt, it's different.

464
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:57,400
Your body knows your brain knows we can actually get ourselves out of pain.

465
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:01,400
And so a failed a failed attempt just means that you can do it.

466
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:06,600
And so you get you got the courage now to keep to really get yourself out of pain.

467
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,200
So now everything became death.

468
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,900
Everything became I can get myself out of pain.

469
00:27:11,900 --> 00:27:15,100
If I'm in the elevator, I'm thinking that the elevator or go through the ground.

470
00:27:15,100 --> 00:27:23,700
If I'm, you know, just simply driving in a car, I'm hoping one of the cars come, you know, careening the car like it's just everything is all over the place.

471
00:27:23,700 --> 00:27:33,800
And so between the ages of 14 to 22, you know, I had about 10 attempts, you know, different, different episodes, different things, different things.

472
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:37,400
I can get my hands on overdose on medication.

473
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:43,800
I started cutting all these different things were going on because I'm just trying to figure out myself how to get myself out of pain.

474
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:49,300
I had no idea that I will become an adult because I had no aspirations or goals of becoming an adult.

475
00:27:49,300 --> 00:27:52,600
I just knew that eventually I will get myself out of pain.

476
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:56,800
I will kill myself and then it will be over.

477
00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:02,700
You had an infant daughter at the time when you were driving to the bridge.

478
00:28:02,700 --> 00:28:09,500
I'm curious to see if this is something that you felt with hundreds of interviews now with people that were in this crisis point.

479
00:28:09,500 --> 00:28:17,700
Some of them actually went through with their attempt like Kevin Hines and obviously survived, thank goodness, and became a voice now like so many do for this topic.

480
00:28:17,700 --> 00:28:28,300
But I started seeing the same thing emerge from people's stories that I never heard from suicide awareness posters and, you know, the normal rhetoric.

481
00:28:28,300 --> 00:28:35,400
And it really pushed against that kind of ignorant conversation around suicide that it's selfish, it's cowardly.

482
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,000
Think of your family. How could you?

483
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:43,700
Because these men and women through the perfect storm of all the contributing factors.

484
00:28:43,700 --> 00:28:54,300
So, you know, whether it's unaddressed childhood trauma, sleep deprivation, the side effect of, you know, maybe psychiatric meds, alcohol, you know, all the things financial that come together.

485
00:28:54,300 --> 00:28:58,100
That at that point, their brain became so miswired.

486
00:28:58,100 --> 00:29:04,700
And I mean that term compassionately that they truly believed that they were a burden to their family.

487
00:29:04,700 --> 00:29:08,100
They were the cause of the pain for their family.

488
00:29:08,100 --> 00:29:15,400
So at that point, it made their suicide actually courageous and selfless, which we don't really hear people talking about.

489
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:18,100
Now, it doesn't make sense to the healthy mind, of course.

490
00:29:18,100 --> 00:29:21,100
But at that moment, that reality is destroyed.

491
00:29:21,100 --> 00:29:27,200
And if by identifying that, I think we can pull that red flag up and say, this is a warning sign for us.

492
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,400
You're a new father.

493
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:34,700
Was there an element of burdensome in your mind at that point?

494
00:29:34,700 --> 00:29:42,500
Absolutely, because that's a that's a that's a new responsibility that nobody can prepare yourself that nobody's prepared for.

495
00:29:42,500 --> 00:29:47,700
I mean, we as parents, you're never prepared for how it's going to feel to become a father.

496
00:29:47,700 --> 00:29:51,400
I never I already had a million things on my shoulders.

497
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:55,600
Her coming into the world and financially, I wasn't prepared mentally.

498
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:56,900
I was prepared. Spiritsy.

499
00:29:56,900 --> 00:30:01,500
I wasn't prepared and just I felt overwhelmed and unprepared.

500
00:30:01,500 --> 00:30:07,000
And here I am with this new now found responsibility and I have nothing to provide, nothing to offer her.

501
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:16,200
So, yes, that was the ultimate triggering that led to my complete spiral out of control.

502
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,400
Kevin Briggs, anything to add to that kind of philosophy?

503
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:21,200
James, you really nailed it.

504
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:24,700
Yeah, you're gifted there, my friend, when you're talking about.

505
00:30:24,700 --> 00:30:27,800
Absolutely. People feel like they're a burden.

506
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,200
This is from just my experience up on that bridge.

507
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:32,400
They stop their medications.

508
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:33,900
They feel like a burden.

509
00:30:33,900 --> 00:30:38,200
They don't see tomorrow and they're hopeless.

510
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,300
We're staying with you, Kevin Briggs, for a moment.

511
00:30:40,300 --> 00:30:43,100
Obviously, we're going to get to March 11th, 2005.

512
00:30:43,100 --> 00:30:51,500
But prior to that, as you are starting to build your skill set of being able to communicate with people in crisis prior to Kevin,

513
00:30:51,500 --> 00:30:54,800
what was some of the other successes?

514
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:58,300
And I'm not even saying that that resulted in the person not not completing.

515
00:30:58,300 --> 00:31:03,900
But what was that evolution of communication as you progressed through?

516
00:31:03,900 --> 00:31:13,200
You know, I started out with me talking a lot and I quickly found that that was not the right answer.

517
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:17,500
These folks, for the most part, wanted to be heard.

518
00:31:17,500 --> 00:31:19,400
Sometimes they just really wanted to be left alone.

519
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:26,600
But if I persisted and once they opened up and they found that I wasn't trying to correct them, wasn't trying to fix them.

520
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:30,000
And I'm saying correct. I mean, correct in what they're saying there.

521
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:33,300
But trying to fix their issues, then they would open up.

522
00:31:33,300 --> 00:31:38,100
And this is what folks generally want to do is they wanted to talk.

523
00:31:38,100 --> 00:31:46,900
So let them talk. Be a sounding board, not trying to fix what's been going on because we can't really, you know, 220 feet up in the air.

524
00:31:46,900 --> 00:31:51,500
What am I going to do? I'm not going to blow smoke up and tell you everything's going to be fine.

525
00:31:51,500 --> 00:31:57,000
Probably not. Probably not for some time, but at least you're here to have that opportunity.

526
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,600
You know, sometimes it took years to get to this level to where you're at right now.

527
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:05,400
It may take quite a while to get that, but we are all a work in progress for different things.

528
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:11,900
So even today, the 61, I need to learn to shut up and listen better.

529
00:32:11,900 --> 00:32:14,500
I'm working on it. Really.

530
00:32:14,500 --> 00:32:19,500
Talk to me about the vulnerability piece. What I'm again seeing and even in this, you know,

531
00:32:19,500 --> 00:32:29,100
I'm almost a thousand episodes now, you know, my own vulnerability in certain areas where it makes sense seems to help open the doors,

532
00:32:29,100 --> 00:32:33,200
whether it's on a recording, whether it's one of my friends, it's, you know, going through some things,

533
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:38,600
but not pouring out your own entire story and like you said, not listening,

534
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:48,100
but meeting them at a certain point where for a moment you're being vulnerable enough so that they can feel safe to open up more.

535
00:32:48,100 --> 00:32:52,100
That's for me, it's through validation. You know what?

536
00:32:52,100 --> 00:32:56,700
They tell me they're going through a divorce. Maybe there's some legal issues that might be losing their job.

537
00:32:56,700 --> 00:32:59,100
They can't make a house payment.

538
00:32:59,100 --> 00:33:02,600
Brother, that sounds really tough.

539
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:06,100
You know, let them know and not suck it up.

540
00:33:06,100 --> 00:33:08,400
Buttercup, have a nice day. Hurry up. Get back over here.

541
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,900
I got a donut to get. No, but be there.

542
00:33:11,900 --> 00:33:17,400
And then, man, that's got to sound really tough and then normalize what we're going through.

543
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:22,700
You know what? Anybody going through all that would probably be thinking about suicide.

544
00:33:22,700 --> 00:33:28,200
And that's a normal thought that someone may have going through all this stuff

545
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:33,300
because a lot of times people feel so alone that nobody gets it.

546
00:33:33,300 --> 00:33:36,900
Nobody's going to understand them. Well, I may not understand you completely.

547
00:33:36,900 --> 00:33:38,800
I've been through some things. We've talked about this.

548
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:43,900
Kev's been through a lot. You've been through a lot, but we probably don't really, really,

549
00:33:43,900 --> 00:33:47,200
really understand what that individual is going through.

550
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:49,900
Maybe it's just one thing that was very, very traumatic.

551
00:33:49,900 --> 00:33:56,800
You know, we don't know. But when they tell us to take that in, not to compare it, anything like that,

552
00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:00,900
but let them know, man, I'm here for you today.

553
00:34:00,900 --> 00:34:04,100
You know, and we'll try to get folks here for you tomorrow.

554
00:34:04,100 --> 00:34:10,100
So I want to give them the courage to continue past this crisis today.

555
00:34:10,100 --> 00:34:15,500
Absolutely. Well, Kevin, Berthea, I had Kevin Hines on the show.

556
00:34:15,500 --> 00:34:17,400
I think we've done two interviews now.

557
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:24,800
And one of the most heartbreaking elements of his story is, again, he was on the same bridge as you

558
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:29,200
and he was just waiting for one person to say, are you OK?

559
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:30,900
And I heard you kind of touch on the same thing.

560
00:34:30,900 --> 00:34:37,000
I forget if we got into that in depth prior, but talk to me about your journey to the bridge on March 11th.

561
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:43,500
And then, you know, that that element of if one person prior to Kevin Briggs coming,

562
00:34:43,500 --> 00:34:49,600
if one person had actually asked you the impact that that might have had then.

563
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:53,000
Absolutely. March 11th, 2005.

564
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:56,300
This is before YouTube. This is before Google.

565
00:34:56,300 --> 00:35:00,600
This is before we had the ability to have information at our fingertips.

566
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:03,700
So I didn't have no idea anything about the Golden Gate Bridge.

567
00:35:03,700 --> 00:35:06,400
Didn't even know it was iconic for suicide attempts.

568
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:07,700
Didn't even know how to get there.

569
00:35:07,700 --> 00:35:16,100
So I was hoping on my journey there that I would be able to ask somebody directions to where the Golden Gate Bridge was.

570
00:35:16,100 --> 00:35:20,100
And they would look at me and ask me why I was going just significantly.

571
00:35:20,100 --> 00:35:26,200
That's just how I had a plan, because I always believe anybody in a dark place, we want to we want to tell you why.

572
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:31,200
We just need the time and a place and a safe place to explain why we feel the way we feel.

573
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:36,400
And so I was just hoping that somebody would, you know, kind of look at me.

574
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:37,800
I mean, you just have this hope.

575
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:40,700
You know, people can't see on the inside of you,

576
00:35:40,700 --> 00:35:44,300
but you're in such a dark place that you hope somebody somebody does see you.

577
00:35:44,300 --> 00:35:51,000
You hope somebody glances at you the wrong, you know, the right way and just sees you at your most vulnerable place.

578
00:35:51,000 --> 00:36:00,100
But nobody did. I think I asked I was asking the toll keeper that was at the Bay Bridge when I passed my money.

579
00:36:00,100 --> 00:36:03,400
I asked her for directions and I was hoping that she would ask me, you know,

580
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:07,800
you have this hope not saying that it's an expectation, it's an hope, which is different.

581
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:09,500
Hope is different than an expectation.

582
00:36:09,500 --> 00:36:13,500
And I had this hope of thinking that she would ask, but she never did.

583
00:36:13,500 --> 00:36:24,500
And so that that was pretty much my last person that I kind of kind of came in contact before before I met Officer Briggs that that morning that afternoon.

584
00:36:24,500 --> 00:36:29,000
So let's talk about that. You find this iconic bridge.

585
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:37,500
Talk to me about, you know, leaving your car and the trip to the railing and then obviously, you know, when when you two finally meet.

586
00:36:37,500 --> 00:36:40,900
So I park, which is it's a park right in front.

587
00:36:40,900 --> 00:36:45,500
And I didn't realize I am how that is never parks out there like that.

588
00:36:45,500 --> 00:36:47,500
But on that particular day was a park right in front.

589
00:36:47,500 --> 00:36:51,400
I parked left the keys there because I wouldn't this was not a test run.

590
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,900
I wasn't coming here to talk, get attention, anything.

591
00:36:54,900 --> 00:36:56,500
This was a I was done.

592
00:36:56,500 --> 00:37:01,500
I grabbed my prepaid phone because I was going to make one phone call just to say goodbye.

593
00:37:01,500 --> 00:37:03,700
I said not not in my brain.

594
00:37:03,700 --> 00:37:05,700
That was my plan. Grab my phone.

595
00:37:05,700 --> 00:37:18,900
And I started walking. Once I started walking, I was trying to figure out one just one thing, one moment, one one piece of something that was going to stop me from jumping in.

596
00:37:18,900 --> 00:37:24,800
You got to be in a lot of pain to go through your whole life at 22 years old and can't find one reason to live.

597
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:32,500
And so that's why I understand the type of pain that people are in because I couldn't find one moment, one nothing that was going to sustain me enough.

598
00:37:32,500 --> 00:37:36,000
And so once I got to a to a to a spot, I looked over the railing.

599
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,600
So I was under going to deter me and I saw that it that it was nothing but water.

600
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:47,600
And that's when I knew that it was over and it was a sense of relief that came over me because I knew in that moment momentarily that I would be going, you know,

601
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:59,700
it would be over and I wouldn't have to explain anything or explain who I am or go through this day, go through these anymore days or nights or months or weeks or seconds in this much in this much pain.

602
00:37:59,700 --> 00:38:06,900
I think one of the most heartbreaking things about your story and again, yours may be less acute, but Kevin was standing there in tears.

603
00:38:06,900 --> 00:38:12,100
Kevin Hines, you know, someone asked him to take a picture of them and then goes off again.

604
00:38:12,100 --> 00:38:20,500
But I think it, you know, we talk about mental health and there's there's five K's and there's, you know, the talk of EMDR and psych meds.

605
00:38:20,500 --> 00:38:29,600
But what I think has also been missed is the fact that, you know, a community that was tight would have noticed that someone was hurting.

606
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:37,200
But with us being more and more separated, whether it's politically, whether it's devices, just all the things that lack of connection,

607
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:42,000
you can be in crisis standing on the Golden Gate Bridge and then people are not just ignoring you.

608
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:47,900
Some people are even, you know, shouting, go on, do it, jump, you know, this this real human disconnection.

609
00:38:47,900 --> 00:38:51,400
So I'll go to you, Kevin Briggs, for a second.

610
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:59,900
Talk to me about that element. You know, when I talk to people from small towns, small villages, they still have that sense of community.

611
00:38:59,900 --> 00:39:05,500
What impact has large city or maybe even the divisive rhetoric of today?

612
00:39:05,500 --> 00:39:10,400
What impact is that having on the mental health crisis itself?

613
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:16,300
I'll tell you where I'm at for a lot of times because I'm fairly close to San Francisco.

614
00:39:16,300 --> 00:39:19,900
People walk by one another and generally don't say anything.

615
00:39:19,900 --> 00:39:26,200
And our mentality is growing up near a city, if somebody does say something, they want something from you.

616
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:30,200
Nobody's going to talk to you to be friendly. If they say, hey, how are you?

617
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:33,900
They want something. So that is kind of our mentality here.

618
00:39:33,900 --> 00:39:39,500
Whereas you go to a small town, my family, my mother grew up in a very, very small town called McLeod,

619
00:39:39,500 --> 00:39:46,500
way up by Mount Shasta in the northern part of California, very small town, where you almost expected to say hi.

620
00:39:46,500 --> 00:39:52,600
If you walked by somebody with rude not to say hi, that's the kind of environment that's really, really cool.

621
00:39:52,600 --> 00:40:00,800
You know, we're not looking for nothing. It's just a hi, how are you type of thing where you could sit next to someone at breakfast and,

622
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:08,500
you know, have a cordial conversation with us, but they're not going to come up and try to get money from you or eyeballing you for when you leave,

623
00:40:08,500 --> 00:40:10,800
trying to get your watch or something like that.

624
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:16,300
So it's kind of built into us for a reason. And I'm not saying it's good.

625
00:40:16,300 --> 00:40:18,900
I'm just saying it's there and that's a big dose of reality.

626
00:40:18,900 --> 00:40:22,100
But that's how it is.

627
00:40:22,100 --> 00:40:24,600
Kevin, your perspective?

628
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:33,100
It's just the reality. I mean, it's life is hard. I mean, it's everybody's dealing with so many different things.

629
00:40:33,100 --> 00:40:38,300
And I think that it's hard to kind of for everybody to channel their emotions.

630
00:40:38,300 --> 00:40:40,900
And we have this expectation out of people.

631
00:40:40,900 --> 00:40:49,400
And I think that until we understand that everybody's struggling with their own individual thing, we can no longer have an expectation out of anybody.

632
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:57,300
I mean, everybody's we're trying to heal, trying to trying to understand ourselves, trying to love, trying to figure out how to be loved.

633
00:40:57,300 --> 00:41:10,200
I mean, so many different things that we are trying to do individually as human and to facet in and try to couple that with the 8.5 billion people around us that are doing the same thing we're doing.

634
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:19,800
It just it just creates this this idea that the world is in a certain way when reality is everybody's just dealing with what they're dealing with.

635
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:25,200
And we're trying to figure out how to deal with it collectively together. I just have a different perspective.

636
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:27,700
I mean, I know the world is the way it is.

637
00:41:27,700 --> 00:41:36,900
But if we if we if we just do it by individual and not just do it as the world, then we can understand that we're individually trying to figure ourselves out.

638
00:41:36,900 --> 00:41:43,800
If we if we didn't have anything and if it was nobody else in the world and we were by ourselves, we still will be struggling.

639
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:45,700
Absolutely love it. All right.

640
00:41:45,700 --> 00:41:47,700
Well, then so you're at the railing now.

641
00:41:47,700 --> 00:41:49,200
Talk to me, Kevin Briggs.

642
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:50,400
How did you get the call?

643
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:51,600
Were you just driving by?

644
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:57,700
And then let's get to the conversation how that that entire dynamic was.

645
00:41:57,700 --> 00:42:02,100
I was actually sitting in a coffee shop in Sausalito.

646
00:42:02,100 --> 00:42:08,900
When I got this call and it's very easy for me to get up there on the motorcycle and because I am on a motorcycle, then I go on the sidewalks.

647
00:42:08,900 --> 00:42:11,900
I'm also fairly wide on the Golden Gate Bridge.

648
00:42:11,900 --> 00:42:14,000
So I was at the north end.

649
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:21,800
I proceeded south going towards San Francisco and I had his description from dispatch.

650
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:26,400
So as I near the North Power, I see the description of him and he's there.

651
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:29,200
North of the North Power.

652
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:35,900
So I see him and he's on a cell phone. I stopped, I don't know, 50, 75 feet away.

653
00:42:35,900 --> 00:42:46,300
And as I'm getting off of my motorcycle, what appears to me is he looks my direction and sees me and he runs over and jumps over the rail because he's quite athletic.

654
00:42:46,300 --> 00:42:49,300
I yelled something to him.

655
00:42:49,300 --> 00:43:02,600
And this is all my perspective of it that he reaches out, grabs the rail, swings around on the other side and slams into the guard post there and then lands on this little bitty pipe.

656
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:04,700
But I didn't know he landed on this little bitty pipe.

657
00:43:04,700 --> 00:43:06,300
I thought he was gone.

658
00:43:06,300 --> 00:43:14,100
So I ran up there and then I see the his white t-shirt sticking through the slats of the pedestrian rail.

659
00:43:14,100 --> 00:43:17,300
So I don't like to just walk up on folks.

660
00:43:17,300 --> 00:43:22,500
I stay back and I just raised my right hand as my weapons on my right side.

661
00:43:22,500 --> 00:43:24,100
And I just tell them my name.

662
00:43:24,100 --> 00:43:25,900
Hi, I'm Kevin.

663
00:43:25,900 --> 00:43:28,600
Is it okay if I come up and talk with you for a while?

664
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:30,600
I want to empower them.

665
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:40,600
Sometimes folks, they've been just kicked, kicked, kicked, kicked so many times by having an officer in uniform come up and say, hey, is it okay if I do this?

666
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:43,400
You know, I think that starts it off on a good note.

667
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:45,300
Didn't work this time.

668
00:43:45,300 --> 00:43:46,900
He wanted nothing to do with me.

669
00:43:46,900 --> 00:43:47,500
He was mad.

670
00:43:47,500 --> 00:43:50,200
He was really mad and he kept screaming at me.

671
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:55,700
If you come one step closer, I'm jumping and he was very serious about it.

672
00:43:55,700 --> 00:44:00,400
And I know if I would have just kept walking up, he'd be gone.

673
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:11,100
So I stayed back and it took quite some time before he trusted me enough to come up to things that I wouldn't grab him and nobody else would.

674
00:44:11,100 --> 00:44:18,100
Where I could come up and be a little bit closer because that bridge, if anybody has ever been on it, is so loud.

675
00:44:18,100 --> 00:44:19,100
We don't stop the traffic.

676
00:44:19,100 --> 00:44:22,200
The cars are screaming by.

677
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:26,600
We have to stop the pedestrians in the area from walking on the sidewalk past us.

678
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:28,100
The wind is brutal.

679
00:44:28,100 --> 00:44:33,200
It is a terrible place to do any sort of negotiation.

680
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:37,900
So Kevin, but the your perspective, you know, you're the right side of the railing.

681
00:44:37,900 --> 00:44:44,400
Walk me through that, you know, sequence of events through your eyes.

682
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:50,900
I had just prepared myself for what I thought was the greatest moment of my life.

683
00:44:50,900 --> 00:44:54,000
A moment without pain.

684
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:57,300
And that was kind of derailed.

685
00:44:57,300 --> 00:45:01,500
And so that did anger me because I was in preparation.

686
00:45:01,500 --> 00:45:03,900
Like I, you got my whole life.

687
00:45:03,900 --> 00:45:06,100
I've always all I know is pain.

688
00:45:06,100 --> 00:45:07,900
I don't know a moment without pain.

689
00:45:07,900 --> 00:45:11,200
I don't know a moment without physical, mental or spiritual pain.

690
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:16,800
So to know that I was going to be out with this and now I'm I am now on a leg.

691
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:20,500
I'm on a pipe and I'm afraid of heights.

692
00:45:20,500 --> 00:45:22,900
So now it's only two things that I hate.

693
00:45:22,900 --> 00:45:25,200
I hate heights and I hate being cold.

694
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:36,000
Like so I went from in pain, hating my life, knowing I'm about to be out of pain to two of the worst things that I completely hate on Earth.

695
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:39,800
Being cold and standing 220 feet in the air.

696
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:42,600
So mentally and then this voice trying to get at me.

697
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:46,000
So all this is going on in this small time frame.

698
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:48,900
So I'm extremely upset.

699
00:45:48,900 --> 00:45:54,000
Year to date, that's probably probably the maddest I've been in my life.

700
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:57,100
I can honestly say that because I'm frustrated.

701
00:45:57,100 --> 00:45:59,400
I got to all these different things going on with me.

702
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:04,900
And so I'm yelling at the top of my lungs and I'm trying to get his attention and know that I was serious.

703
00:46:04,900 --> 00:46:09,000
I am but I can't get the strength to get off this ledge.

704
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:11,500
I can't get the strength to just push myself back.

705
00:46:11,500 --> 00:46:23,500
I think that from weeks of me not eating in months of me not sleeping the all the strength came into me grabbing that grabbing that grabbing that,

706
00:46:23,500 --> 00:46:26,700
you know, grabbing the railing that that's where all my strength.

707
00:46:26,700 --> 00:46:31,700
So by the time I'm on in this position, I don't have any more strength to do anything.

708
00:46:31,700 --> 00:46:34,200
I don't have enough strength to go up or go down.

709
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:38,800
So I'm pretty much just kind of just stuck in this position mentally and physically.

710
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:40,700
And I'm just overwhelmed.

711
00:46:40,700 --> 00:46:43,600
And so for the next 15 minutes, he could have gave up at any moment.

712
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:46,900
That's why I'm telling people how important it is for patients.

713
00:46:46,900 --> 00:46:51,500
Patients is so critical when you're dealing with somebody in a mental health condition.

714
00:46:51,500 --> 00:46:56,100
You got to be patient because at any given moment he could have just said, all right, enough is enough.

715
00:46:56,100 --> 00:46:57,300
I don't have time for this.

716
00:46:57,300 --> 00:46:59,000
And we would not be having this conversation.

717
00:46:59,000 --> 00:46:59,900
He was patient.

718
00:46:59,900 --> 00:47:02,800
And I gave him every reason to not be patient.

719
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:06,500
Every reason to give up every reason to say, all right, enough is enough.

720
00:47:06,500 --> 00:47:08,700
And for some reason, he still hung on.

721
00:47:08,700 --> 00:47:16,500
And because of that, I'm here today because something on the inside of me couldn't understand why he was so patient.

722
00:47:16,500 --> 00:47:18,300
So that's what clicked on the inside of me.

723
00:47:18,300 --> 00:47:20,900
Like, wait, who are you again?

724
00:47:20,900 --> 00:47:22,500
Like, why are you so patient?

725
00:47:22,500 --> 00:47:23,600
That's what clicked.

726
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:26,300
And that's what that him creating that safe places.

727
00:47:26,300 --> 00:47:28,200
What got me talking in the first place?

728
00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:38,600
But it took 10, maybe 12 minutes of me just screaming at the top of my lungs for me to even get to a place of comfort in order to start having a conversation.

729
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:43,800
It's interesting when you said finally being happy because I've heard a few people frame this.

730
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:53,600
You know, if you think about fight, flight and freeze and flow, you know, the different emotional states, the number of people I know that beat themselves up

731
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:58,300
because they didn't see it coming when their best friend, their family member took their own life.

732
00:47:58,300 --> 00:48:00,200
In fact, they seemed happier.

733
00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:07,300
And when you actually deconstruct it psychologically, that acceptance is almost like the deer in the lion's mouth.

734
00:48:07,300 --> 00:48:10,900
There's a certain point as mammals that we just kind of give into it.

735
00:48:10,900 --> 00:48:17,800
And if someone's planned their own demise, a lot of times that you hear that they seemed happier than they had for a long time.

736
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:22,600
So I can see how with you, you've got this plan, you know, planned out.

737
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:25,200
Now you're standing on if my memory serves me right.

738
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:29,400
It's not just a pipe, but a moss covered pipe that you're already going to slip off.

739
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:36,400
And you've been dragged from this acceptance flow state back into fight, flight.

740
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:43,900
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, because I had already had I had already had 10 unsuccessful like 10 attempts before that.

741
00:48:43,900 --> 00:48:47,500
So when I got to the bridge, I'm like, OK, this is a must.

742
00:48:47,500 --> 00:48:52,500
I looked over the railing. I said, OK, this is I cannot fail at this.

743
00:48:52,500 --> 00:48:55,100
I think it's impossible for me to fail.

744
00:48:55,100 --> 00:49:03,300
And that's so I had everything on the inside of me accepted the fact that finally I had reached a point of I'm looking there.

745
00:49:03,300 --> 00:49:07,500
All I got to do is just jump. That's it. And I'm I'm an athletic guy.

746
00:49:07,500 --> 00:49:10,800
All I do is jump like, you know, so me.

747
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:16,700
Everything is like in transition mode to finally accepting everything for it to be.

748
00:49:16,700 --> 00:49:24,200
So that's a that is a huge roller coaster ride to come off of in my brain.

749
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:28,500
So, Kevin, Briggs, going back to you, you know, you talked about the patients element.

750
00:49:28,500 --> 00:49:37,800
You know, what was that incremental journey that got you to finally helping Kevin back over the railing again?

751
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:46,300
So when he did finally allow me to come up and speak with him, I just approached slowly and again, told him my name.

752
00:49:46,300 --> 00:49:49,000
What I'm trying to do is personalize everything.

753
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:52,100
He allowed me to use his first name, Kevin. Oh, he made it easy.

754
00:49:52,100 --> 00:49:57,400
I can remember this. This is cool. So we just had a chat, really.

755
00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:00,600
And but I wanted him to speak. I go by 80 20.

756
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:03,900
I want him to speak 80 percent of the time and me 20.

757
00:50:03,900 --> 00:50:08,100
And if I keep that in my head, it keeps me from talking too much.

758
00:50:08,100 --> 00:50:10,800
So I'm always thinking 80 20, 80 20, 80 20.

759
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:12,800
It's going to shift later on in the conversation.

760
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:18,800
I will talk more. But if I'm letting him speak, I'm gathering information.

761
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:22,000
He's being allowed to vent. So it's wonderful.

762
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:24,300
This is what we're looking for. And he wanted to talk.

763
00:50:24,300 --> 00:50:27,600
And he told me this story, what we're talking about today.

764
00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:40,200
So in my mind, I needed to find him a reason to come back over some hope, some purpose, combination of that three, maybe all three.

765
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:42,900
So that that's my job. I'm down with that.

766
00:50:42,900 --> 00:50:45,200
And that's you know, that's what I'm looking for.

767
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:48,400
I'm very, very serious about that. So what are we looking at?

768
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:51,100
Everybody's different. You know, one guy was food.

769
00:50:51,100 --> 00:50:53,200
It was french fries. They got him back over.

770
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:55,300
Another gentleman I had, it was his goldfish.

771
00:50:55,300 --> 00:51:01,300
I mean, you never know. So what may be important to us, you need to put that on the wayside.

772
00:51:01,300 --> 00:51:06,900
You need to find out what is important with them. What's going on?

773
00:51:06,900 --> 00:51:08,700
And that's what this was about.

774
00:51:08,700 --> 00:51:14,400
And when I found out about his daughter, we focused on that and talked more and more and more about it.

775
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:22,900
And then I actually gave him a break and I stepped back and let him be for a little bit and then asked his permission to come back up and focused on it again.

776
00:51:22,900 --> 00:51:33,800
Because I think folks in that situation are surrounded by this huge negative bubble that I want to give them some time, you know, start talking on a positive note and then give them some time.

777
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:38,900
Take a break, let them think and then come back up and chat with them more.

778
00:51:38,900 --> 00:51:48,800
I wanted him to make this decision to come back over the rail because you know how much courage it takes to go over a rail.

779
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:51,600
Hell of a lot of courage. We've talked about that.

780
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:57,700
Imagine the courage that it takes to come back over that rail and face everything again.

781
00:51:57,700 --> 00:52:01,700
I want him to do that on his own. Once he makes that decision, I will help him.

782
00:52:01,700 --> 00:52:05,200
We're not going to slip now, but I want him to make that decision.

783
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:09,000
And I think for later on in life, that's going to really help out.

784
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:13,700
You had the courage to face this the darkest time.

785
00:52:13,700 --> 00:52:15,800
Who was it that took that?

786
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:18,500
You know, I don't know if iconic is the right word.

787
00:52:18,500 --> 00:52:24,800
I don't know what the right description would be, but the well-known picture that, you know, adorned all the newspapers.

788
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:29,900
That was the guy named John Story in a helicopter way out in the bay.

789
00:52:29,900 --> 00:52:34,000
He was working for, I believe, the ESF Chronicle at the time.

790
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:37,300
And that helicopter was so close a lot of this time.

791
00:52:37,300 --> 00:52:39,500
I had to have my dispatch.

792
00:52:39,500 --> 00:52:40,700
I don't know who she called it.

793
00:52:40,700 --> 00:52:46,400
Probably was FAA to get him to back off because it was way too loud.

794
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:47,700
He was too close.

795
00:52:47,700 --> 00:52:50,900
So it was a pain in the butt, to be honest with you.

796
00:52:50,900 --> 00:52:55,000
So, you know, it was another day for me, though.

797
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:56,900
Of doing this type of work.

798
00:52:56,900 --> 00:52:58,000
Really didn't think nothing of it.

799
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:01,000
And then this photo came out and it went all over.

800
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:02,900
And but this is what I do.

801
00:53:02,900 --> 00:53:04,900
This is what other officers are doing.

802
00:53:04,900 --> 00:53:06,100
But they're doing this around the world.

803
00:53:06,100 --> 00:53:11,900
And you know this, whether that's on a bridge, on a building, with people with a gun to their head.

804
00:53:11,900 --> 00:53:20,200
So the other big part of this is if I was not going to to break the barrier with Kevin.

805
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:24,400
If you know, if he looked up at me because he was looking down most of the time.

806
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:28,600
If he looked up at me and there was a race thing or something else.

807
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:33,700
I needed in my head to be able to back off and try to get somebody else in there to do this.

808
00:53:33,700 --> 00:53:38,700
Because we have to remember it is about those folks and not us.

809
00:53:38,700 --> 00:53:39,500
Absolutely.

810
00:53:39,500 --> 00:53:45,000
Yeah, even I mean, a much less acute example as a firefighter and a paramedic.

811
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:51,700
There were just some patients that you, you know, I would like to say I was one of the nicest people on my crew normally.

812
00:53:51,700 --> 00:53:56,100
But there were some, you know, whether it was my skin color or whatever it was, they just did not want to talk to me.

813
00:53:56,100 --> 00:53:59,500
All right, let me get the Hispanic guy or you know, whoever.

814
00:53:59,500 --> 00:54:01,900
And then they'd be, you know, much ruder than me.

815
00:54:01,900 --> 00:54:04,200
And this person would be in love with them.

816
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:10,100
You know, sometimes like you said, to having the humility to say, okay, this isn't working as far as communication.

817
00:54:10,100 --> 00:54:13,000
Let me pass it off to someone who would be the right fit.

818
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:14,100
Yes, exactly.

819
00:54:14,100 --> 00:54:16,600
I agree with that 100 percent.

820
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:16,900
All right.

821
00:54:16,900 --> 00:54:18,900
Well, Kevin Berthier, going back to you.

822
00:54:18,900 --> 00:54:26,100
I want to walk through obviously, you know, the following years because just climbing over the barrier obviously didn't solve all your mental health problems.

823
00:54:26,100 --> 00:54:37,500
But talk to me through your eyes what that switch was that took you from thinking about jumping into the water and then using all your strength to climb back over the railing.

824
00:54:37,500 --> 00:54:41,300
So what was that pivotal point for you?

825
00:54:41,300 --> 00:54:43,100
I was suicidal still.

826
00:54:43,100 --> 00:54:43,800
I didn't get help.

827
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:44,600
I didn't seek help.

828
00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:45,800
I didn't go to counseling.

829
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:50,600
You think somebody have this traumatic event happen in their life and they need to do something.

830
00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:54,500
You know, they come with at some point they accept it right and get help.

831
00:54:54,500 --> 00:54:55,100
And I didn't.

832
00:54:55,100 --> 00:54:55,900
I did the opposite.

833
00:54:55,900 --> 00:54:58,900
I ran away from it because I couldn't understand it.

834
00:54:58,900 --> 00:55:08,700
When something that big and that drastic, I saw it as when I got home from from the hospital and learned that that picture was photo was out there.

835
00:55:08,700 --> 00:55:19,200
And now I spent every second every minute every hour of my life building a brand of person to show the world that I was that I was the life of the party that had it together.

836
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:26,300
When that photo came out, I knew that the people closest to me knew that I was lying about everything that I've that I presented my whole life.

837
00:55:26,300 --> 00:55:29,100
And so I had to I didn't know who I was going to go back to.

838
00:55:29,100 --> 00:55:31,700
So for eight years, I didn't talk about that picture.

839
00:55:31,700 --> 00:55:33,200
I didn't talk about that photo.

840
00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:38,500
I lost a lot of family members, a lot of friends, a lot of people that was close to me because people wanted to discuss that day.

841
00:55:38,500 --> 00:55:41,300
Because I wasn't in a place of accepting it.

842
00:55:41,300 --> 00:55:46,000
I just completely eliminate them from my life because I didn't want to talk about it.

843
00:55:46,000 --> 00:56:00,300
If it hadn't have been in being able to reunite with Briggs for the first time and rekindling that story and talking about it in in in 2013, eight years later in New York, I still I wouldn't be here today.

844
00:56:00,300 --> 00:56:01,300
Twenty thirteen.

845
00:56:01,300 --> 00:56:05,800
I would I wouldn't have made it out of 2013 if I wouldn't share my story in New York.

846
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:07,800
And that was the eye opening moment.

847
00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:11,700
And I'm telling you, it wasn't it wasn't going to New York.

848
00:56:11,700 --> 00:56:14,500
It wasn't the radio station interviewing me.

849
00:56:14,500 --> 00:56:16,500
It wasn't the fancy hotel.

850
00:56:16,500 --> 00:56:18,100
It wasn't the fancy tuxedo.

851
00:56:18,100 --> 00:56:25,600
It wasn't getting to Columbus Circle and meet Briggs at the Jazz Center and all the fancy people.

852
00:56:25,600 --> 00:56:32,200
It was the mother after I spoke after I spoke, I came down and she was waiting for me at my table.

853
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:42,800
It was the mother who opened up to me and said that she hadn't slept in five years and that she was going to sleep that night because her son died by suicide five years prior to that.

854
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:43,800
And she hadn't slept.

855
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:45,300
He lost his battle, she said.

856
00:56:45,300 --> 00:56:48,400
And she was going to sleep tonight.

857
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:50,700
She told her husband she was going to sleep tonight.

858
00:56:50,700 --> 00:56:54,700
And I was why she was going to sleep was because I told my story.

859
00:56:54,700 --> 00:56:58,600
I told my story and she can better understand what her son Jacob was going through.

860
00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:05,300
That moment right there is the reason why I changed my life and the reason why I found something fighting for that.

861
00:57:05,300 --> 00:57:10,300
That moment is where I found purpose because I needed all of these moments.

862
00:57:10,300 --> 00:57:14,500
Yes, I needed Briggs twice to meet him twice to be reunited with him twice.

863
00:57:14,500 --> 00:57:15,900
But I needed that mother.

864
00:57:15,900 --> 00:57:21,400
I needed that mother because she solidified every it's like she brought everything together for me.

865
00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:23,400
And it was a in that moment.

866
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:26,000
I realized that it was way bigger than me.

867
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:27,100
And I needed that.

868
00:57:27,100 --> 00:57:28,900
I needed to realize that it was bigger than me.

869
00:57:28,900 --> 00:57:37,000
And so that humbling moment and being reunited with Briggs and realizing he is who we said he was in that photo.

870
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:39,500
See, I kept my eyes closed that whole time.

871
00:57:39,500 --> 00:57:52,900
All I had was this man's voice and I was I was hoping I was praying to God that his voice lined up to his personality that he was who we said he was because a lot of it.

872
00:57:52,900 --> 00:58:00,600
And I don't think I've ever said this my hope in humanity was in Briggs.

873
00:58:00,600 --> 00:58:07,500
I lost a lot of hope in humanity and he restored it when I reunited with him and I realized that he was who we said he was.

874
00:58:07,500 --> 00:58:10,400
And it changed my life.

875
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:13,800
Me, you know, being able to reunite with him a second time.

876
00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:15,900
And I don't think I've ever really said that.

877
00:58:15,900 --> 00:58:18,900
But that is the the God on his truth.

878
00:58:18,900 --> 00:58:24,300
It's like I was restored in humanity because he was he stood on who he was that from that day.

879
00:58:24,300 --> 00:58:26,000
I remember his voice.

880
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:30,300
I remember even to this day when we get around each other, I can go back and close my eyes.

881
00:58:30,300 --> 00:58:35,600
I can remember him in that voice and his humility and his compassion and his empathy.

882
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:42,400
Well, that really underlines a reoccurring theme from a lot of people that come on the show that whatever their childhood looked like, you know,

883
00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:47,300
there were there were struggles, especially if there was an absence of a father figure.

884
00:58:47,300 --> 00:58:49,700
More often than not, it was a mentor.

885
00:58:49,700 --> 00:58:54,900
It could have been a female history teacher, could have been a PE coach or, you know, a recruiter or whatever it was.

886
00:58:54,900 --> 00:59:00,900
But some or maybe two or three people came in and at that moment they were the right person.

887
00:59:00,900 --> 00:59:06,600
And I think especially Kevin and Kevin Briggs in our professions, plural, when you have that compassion fatigue,

888
00:59:06,600 --> 00:59:14,600
we forget that that one moment of compassion as a police officer or a paramedic or a firefighter can possibly make someone turn a corner.

889
00:59:14,600 --> 00:59:21,600
Maybe the addict finally feels enough love that they actually seek help or maybe the person who's living on the streets

890
00:59:21,600 --> 00:59:28,500
finally finds the strength to actually go and get on that that journey that was going to get them back into housing or whatever it is.

891
00:59:28,500 --> 00:59:39,600
But we're fighting against the grind of being in a first responder profession where that compassion gets beaten down and we become, you know, less nice versions of ourselves.

892
00:59:39,600 --> 00:59:47,000
So understanding whether you're in uniform or not, that if you are the right person, if you stay that kind and compassionate person,

893
00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:54,200
you may be completely oblivious, but that one kind, compassionate conversation you had with whoever it was, it could be a child,

894
00:59:54,200 --> 00:59:59,300
it could be someone holding a sign on the side of the freeway asking for a couple of bucks.

895
00:59:59,300 --> 01:00:03,400
That might be the pivotal moment in that person's life.

896
01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:11,200
James, I agree with you 100% and it gets hard. It's hard because you're dealing with this every single day, not KED stuff,

897
01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:16,100
but you know, whatever that may be having to do this.

898
01:00:16,100 --> 01:00:20,300
But take a breath, take a breath, you know, take care of yourself.

899
01:00:20,300 --> 01:00:23,300
How are you doing compared to when maybe you first started?

900
01:00:23,300 --> 01:00:26,600
You came out with all this notion of I'm going to save the world.

901
01:00:26,600 --> 01:00:33,400
Well, okay, how'd that turn out? But you can at least help out where you're at.

902
01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:35,800
But start by helping yourself.

903
01:00:35,800 --> 01:00:40,400
Well, Kevin Briggs staying with you, obviously, we talked about Kevin Batheer's, you know, struggles and journey,

904
01:00:40,400 --> 01:00:43,300
you know, you had your own, you know, struggles too.

905
01:00:43,300 --> 01:00:48,200
So walk me through, you know, the devolution, the lowest place that you got.

906
01:00:48,200 --> 01:00:52,800
And then what were some of the tools that started helping you personally?

907
01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:59,500
It was really the nightmares for me from the abuse.

908
01:00:59,500 --> 01:01:07,300
And it wasn't every night, maybe four to five nights a month, but I could be tired, really tired.

909
01:01:07,300 --> 01:01:10,800
And then go down and lay my head down and close my eyes.

910
01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:14,400
And then here's this guy's face, just one inch from me.

911
01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:16,700
And that night's sleep was just gone.

912
01:01:16,700 --> 01:01:22,200
That whole everything was replayed in my mind.

913
01:01:22,200 --> 01:01:27,800
And I just, I mean, it took 45 years for me to come out and then talk about this.

914
01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:32,400
And when I did, you know what, I'm going to get some help with the heart issues and the high blood pressure

915
01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:36,400
and cholesterol that the donut-eating cop gets.

916
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:37,300
Got to get some help.

917
01:01:37,300 --> 01:01:42,700
So that's when I said that it was really the heart surgery that that really caught my attention.

918
01:01:42,700 --> 01:01:45,500
I said, you know what, if I'm going to be around, I got to start changing my ways.

919
01:01:45,500 --> 01:01:56,100
So that's what I did, started with meditation, getting on the different medicines and then getting some help.

920
01:01:56,100 --> 01:02:02,500
So I did go through EMDR and I've had the stellate ganglion block that a lot of veterans are getting.

921
01:02:02,500 --> 01:02:04,400
Had it in both sides of my neck.

922
01:02:04,400 --> 01:02:05,700
You know, it really helped.

923
01:02:05,700 --> 01:02:13,100
But the lady I'm with through EMDR, I walked in and the lady is introducing me to this.

924
01:02:13,100 --> 01:02:17,200
And she says, Kevin, I cannot take the trauma away.

925
01:02:17,200 --> 01:02:23,600
But what we're going to do is get it so it's way the hell out there and you can get some rest.

926
01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:25,600
That's pretty much almost exactly what she said.

927
01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:28,500
And I thought, that's all I'm asking.

928
01:02:28,500 --> 01:02:32,500
Just get this SOB away from me, you know.

929
01:02:32,500 --> 01:02:33,300
And it worked.

930
01:02:33,300 --> 01:02:35,400
But sometimes people have to go back.

931
01:02:35,400 --> 01:02:40,700
And then I was offered this stellate ganglion block, this injections in my neck.

932
01:02:40,700 --> 01:02:41,800
And that helped.

933
01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:45,600
So they're always, you know, they're coming up with new things all the time.

934
01:02:45,600 --> 01:02:47,300
I've never heard of it and it was offered to me.

935
01:02:47,300 --> 01:02:52,600
So I took it and it was great.

936
01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:57,900
Staying with you for a second, being in a profession where you were, you know,

937
01:02:57,900 --> 01:03:06,300
instructed to arrest and incarcerate people who were using illicit drugs.

938
01:03:06,300 --> 01:03:11,100
We are now in an environment where some of those same drugs are actually making a huge

939
01:03:11,100 --> 01:03:15,500
difference when it comes to mental health, psilocybin, MDMA, some of these other ones.

940
01:03:15,500 --> 01:03:18,700
Have you been exposed, you know, to that world now?

941
01:03:18,700 --> 01:03:23,100
Because I mean, the number of people who come on the show, of course, it's a toolbox.

942
01:03:23,100 --> 01:03:24,700
It's not a magic pill.

943
01:03:24,700 --> 01:03:30,200
But more often than not, especially in that kind of horrendous trauma that's buried deep.

944
01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:35,100
Sometimes that was the missing key to the lock to their healing journey.

945
01:03:35,100 --> 01:03:38,600
I have not tried any of that.

946
01:03:38,600 --> 01:03:39,600
I'm open to it.

947
01:03:39,600 --> 01:03:45,900
I have friends that have and they say they don't know, they wonder how they got along

948
01:03:45,900 --> 01:03:47,800
without these things.

949
01:03:47,800 --> 01:03:53,200
So I have not tried this, but I'm certainly open to it.

950
01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:55,900
Right now, I seem to be stable.

951
01:03:55,900 --> 01:03:58,900
If somebody tells me, you know, can always say, yeah, I'm stable.

952
01:03:58,900 --> 01:04:00,100
I know exactly what I'm doing.

953
01:04:00,100 --> 01:04:02,000
Well, what does everybody else say?

954
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:08,500
You know, if my girlfriend or something or one of my boys comes up and says, Dad, man,

955
01:04:08,500 --> 01:04:09,500
you're losing it every day.

956
01:04:09,500 --> 01:04:10,700
What's going on here?

957
01:04:10,700 --> 01:04:11,700
Okay.

958
01:04:11,700 --> 01:04:13,500
Sometimes we don't see what's going on with ourselves.

959
01:04:13,500 --> 01:04:15,300
Or I spend a lot of time with Kev.

960
01:04:15,300 --> 01:04:17,500
He says, hey, man, you're not quite the same.

961
01:04:17,500 --> 01:04:20,500
All right, I'm going to take a better look then.

962
01:04:20,500 --> 01:04:22,500
So I'm certainly open to it.

963
01:04:22,500 --> 01:04:25,600
And as more and more science comes out, fantastic.

964
01:04:25,600 --> 01:04:32,500
We need as much as we can get as far as information and products that help folks.

965
01:04:32,500 --> 01:04:33,500
Absolutely.

966
01:04:33,500 --> 01:04:35,100
Staying on that topic for a second.

967
01:04:35,100 --> 01:04:37,940
This is something that I had a realization myself.

968
01:04:37,940 --> 01:04:43,420
If you are in the same police department or the same fire station and you're using each

969
01:04:43,420 --> 01:04:47,860
other as a barometer on how you're doing, you forget that you're all in the same meat

970
01:04:47,860 --> 01:04:48,860
grinder.

971
01:04:48,860 --> 01:04:52,220
You know, you're a horrible reporter on how each other is doing.

972
01:04:52,220 --> 01:04:58,100
So asking your family or even friends that you see once in a while, that's a much better

973
01:04:58,100 --> 01:05:00,900
reporter for, as you said, how you're actually doing.

974
01:05:00,900 --> 01:05:05,140
If your children say you're always on edge or this kind of thing, then that's a big red

975
01:05:05,140 --> 01:05:10,220
flag that your perception of you being, air quotes, fine, maybe distorted.

976
01:05:10,220 --> 01:05:11,220
Absolutely.

977
01:05:11,220 --> 01:05:12,220
Yes.

978
01:05:12,220 --> 01:05:15,340
I agree with you 100% on that.

979
01:05:15,340 --> 01:05:16,340
All right.

980
01:05:16,340 --> 01:05:21,540
Back to you, Kevin, but you know, you guys have this incredible meeting in 2013.

981
01:05:21,540 --> 01:05:26,180
Obviously you realize that your story is now starting to help people.

982
01:05:26,180 --> 01:05:28,220
What did that toolbox look like for you?

983
01:05:28,220 --> 01:05:32,860
What were some of the tools that started working on top of the fact that your story was actually

984
01:05:32,860 --> 01:05:37,020
a force multiplier for other people now?

985
01:05:37,020 --> 01:05:39,260
I had to change everything.

986
01:05:39,260 --> 01:05:44,620
I had prior to meeting Briggs and prior to actually getting to a point of actually taking

987
01:05:44,620 --> 01:05:47,980
back my life and saying, Kevin, you want to live now.

988
01:05:47,980 --> 01:05:52,380
I had to realize that every decision that I made prior to that was a dead choice.

989
01:05:52,380 --> 01:05:55,820
I was preparing myself to die.

990
01:05:55,820 --> 01:05:58,260
So I had a job that made me want to die.

991
01:05:58,260 --> 01:06:00,940
I was in a relationship that made me want to die.

992
01:06:00,940 --> 01:06:03,700
I ate the food that I was eating, made me want to die.

993
01:06:03,700 --> 01:06:06,780
My whole life was a reminder that I wanted to die.

994
01:06:06,780 --> 01:06:08,660
So I had to literally change.

995
01:06:08,660 --> 01:06:11,220
I had to completely change everything.

996
01:06:11,220 --> 01:06:14,460
I didn't see what tools was going to work.

997
01:06:14,460 --> 01:06:16,820
No, I got rid of everything.

998
01:06:16,820 --> 01:06:22,660
I created a whole new toolbox because I realized that everything that I was doing was contributing

999
01:06:22,660 --> 01:06:23,660
to me.

1000
01:06:23,660 --> 01:06:29,060
I didn't do one thing in my life that would contribute to me wanting to live.

1001
01:06:29,060 --> 01:06:32,660
So I had to create a whole new box.

1002
01:06:32,660 --> 01:06:33,660
And that's a time.

1003
01:06:33,660 --> 01:06:38,740
So I got happy with the journey of learning how to make...

1004
01:06:38,740 --> 01:06:42,660
Every day I'm learning something new because I'm only 11 years.

1005
01:06:42,660 --> 01:06:45,180
So for 30 plus years, I live wrong.

1006
01:06:45,180 --> 01:06:49,900
So the last 11 years, I've been creating new things every single day.

1007
01:06:49,900 --> 01:06:54,540
So every day I'm learning something new about myself and learning how to handle it and learning

1008
01:06:54,540 --> 01:06:55,540
the emotion of it.

1009
01:06:55,540 --> 01:06:58,740
So I'm always on this journey over destination hype.

1010
01:06:58,740 --> 01:07:04,240
So I was so fixated on destination growing up, destination, where I'm going, where I'm

1011
01:07:04,240 --> 01:07:09,460
going that I overlooked the journey and how to get there and the success and having fun

1012
01:07:09,460 --> 01:07:12,460
and going to where I'm getting to where I'm going.

1013
01:07:12,460 --> 01:07:17,580
So now I'm on journey and learning to understand 86,400 seconds in a day.

1014
01:07:17,580 --> 01:07:22,060
I'm appreciating every second of the day rather than waiting to the end of the day to see

1015
01:07:22,060 --> 01:07:27,180
what I did today to culminate to if today was a success or not.

1016
01:07:27,180 --> 01:07:30,340
Today is successful every single day that I am breathing.

1017
01:07:30,340 --> 01:07:32,540
And so it's just a different perspective for me.

1018
01:07:32,540 --> 01:07:37,580
And that has been my toolbox, just perspective.

1019
01:07:37,580 --> 01:07:39,500
Talk to me about the changes in food.

1020
01:07:39,500 --> 01:07:40,740
I'm curious about that.

1021
01:07:40,740 --> 01:07:46,680
And then also things, mindfulness, what are some of the other tools that started to reframe

1022
01:07:46,680 --> 01:07:50,140
the way that you were even thinking to get that presence back?

1023
01:07:50,140 --> 01:07:51,580
Absolutely.

1024
01:07:51,580 --> 01:07:52,580
Food is important.

1025
01:07:52,580 --> 01:07:59,780
I mean, when I say I ate food, I used to eat gas station food, liquor store food, chips,

1026
01:07:59,780 --> 01:08:02,060
things that microwave.

1027
01:08:02,060 --> 01:08:04,860
Everything was microwavable, nothing fresh.

1028
01:08:04,860 --> 01:08:07,540
I didn't drink water to save my life.

1029
01:08:07,540 --> 01:08:14,900
So just drinking water, having a diet, actually eating three times a day and preparing meals,

1030
01:08:14,900 --> 01:08:17,700
eating at home and eating fruits and vegetables.

1031
01:08:17,700 --> 01:08:26,820
It's tremendously, when you're eating food that makes you unhappy, it makes you 10 times

1032
01:08:26,820 --> 01:08:27,820
more unhappy.

1033
01:08:27,820 --> 01:08:35,980
So eating food that was healthy for me, I was able to not stress about my stomach and

1034
01:08:35,980 --> 01:08:39,460
my body and I can concentrate more on my mental.

1035
01:08:39,460 --> 01:08:44,140
So I mean, that's part of the mental journey.

1036
01:08:44,140 --> 01:08:50,100
Learning how to meditate, things that you think are corny that you will never do and

1037
01:08:50,100 --> 01:08:55,820
learning EMDR therapy, all these different things that you learn that you would never

1038
01:08:55,820 --> 01:08:57,060
do in a million years.

1039
01:08:57,060 --> 01:09:01,460
Once you start learning that, having 10 seconds breathing techniques.

1040
01:09:01,460 --> 01:09:04,900
I mean, so many different things that I've learned now in this 11 year journey that I

1041
01:09:04,900 --> 01:09:10,980
never would have did that's contributing to my success as far as wanting to live.

1042
01:09:10,980 --> 01:09:12,180
Beautiful.

1043
01:09:12,180 --> 01:09:13,700
I want to put something to the both of you.

1044
01:09:13,700 --> 01:09:16,420
I'll stay with you, Kevin, just for the moment.

1045
01:09:16,420 --> 01:09:20,240
Two things that I could set up where the Venn diagram is overlapped in all these hundreds

1046
01:09:20,240 --> 01:09:21,240
of conversation.

1047
01:09:21,240 --> 01:09:27,340
One was that feeling of burdensome and reframing the entire suicide thought process.

1048
01:09:27,340 --> 01:09:31,460
But the other one, I feel like especially in the first responder profession that we

1049
01:09:31,460 --> 01:09:34,860
got stuck on the word stigma when it comes to mental health.

1050
01:09:34,860 --> 01:09:38,660
We have to smash the stigma, which in itself does nothing.

1051
01:09:38,660 --> 01:09:42,220
All it does is you just don't talk ill about that thing.

1052
01:09:42,220 --> 01:09:46,340
Where I feel, because I've heard so many of these kind of Phoenix from the ashes style

1053
01:09:46,340 --> 01:09:52,260
stories now, where I feel that the conversation needs to go to is that post-traumatic growth,

1054
01:09:52,260 --> 01:09:54,940
that better version of yourself that Kevin's just completely underlined.

1055
01:09:54,940 --> 01:09:57,740
I mean, you just literally reinvented yourself.

1056
01:09:57,740 --> 01:10:02,540
That resilience that is forged from working through your struggles, your trauma, and then

1057
01:10:02,540 --> 01:10:06,260
coming out the other end and being a beacon of light for others now.

1058
01:10:06,260 --> 01:10:08,380
So talk to me about that concept.

1059
01:10:08,380 --> 01:10:16,940
What have you seen as far as Kevin Bathier today versus 2013 or 2005?

1060
01:10:16,940 --> 01:10:19,620
Just relentless.

1061
01:10:19,620 --> 01:10:25,740
I have a don't give up about me that I've never had in my life.

1062
01:10:25,740 --> 01:10:33,580
I've went through more in the last 11 years than I did in my first 30, the things that

1063
01:10:33,580 --> 01:10:34,580
sent me to the bridge.

1064
01:10:34,580 --> 01:10:39,540
I have more stress in my life now at 41 that I did at 20.

1065
01:10:39,540 --> 01:10:43,020
I have 10 times more the stress I did at 22.

1066
01:10:43,020 --> 01:10:45,180
When I took myself to the bridge, I have way more.

1067
01:10:45,180 --> 01:10:49,820
So it's just the relentless ability of knowing that it's not always about things getting

1068
01:10:49,820 --> 01:10:50,820
better.

1069
01:10:50,820 --> 01:10:51,820
It's about weak.

1070
01:10:51,820 --> 01:10:52,820
I got better.

1071
01:10:52,820 --> 01:10:54,900
Like mentally, I got better.

1072
01:10:54,900 --> 01:10:55,940
Life didn't get better.

1073
01:10:55,940 --> 01:11:00,020
So I think that if I'm waiting for life to get better, then I'm missing it.

1074
01:11:00,020 --> 01:11:04,880
I had to realize and look back that, Kevin, you got better as life got worse.

1075
01:11:04,880 --> 01:11:05,880
You got better.

1076
01:11:05,880 --> 01:11:11,180
And so I think that this relentlessness that we have to have inside of all of us that say,

1077
01:11:11,180 --> 01:11:20,060
you know what, that whole Phoenix to the ad analogy that no story that we have ever heard

1078
01:11:20,060 --> 01:11:25,780
of success has started at the top and we respect it.

1079
01:11:25,780 --> 01:11:29,740
Every story that we respect is about people that start at the bottom and get to the top.

1080
01:11:29,740 --> 01:11:35,980
And I think that we have to be okay with being at the bottom and we have to be okay if we

1081
01:11:35,980 --> 01:11:37,580
never get to the top.

1082
01:11:37,580 --> 01:11:38,580
Absolutely.

1083
01:11:38,580 --> 01:11:39,580
I couldn't agree more.

1084
01:11:39,580 --> 01:11:40,580
It's amazing.

1085
01:11:40,580 --> 01:11:43,220
Kevin Briggs, your perspective.

1086
01:11:43,220 --> 01:11:45,900
You know, Kevin nailed it.

1087
01:11:45,900 --> 01:11:48,020
Finding those coping mechanisms.

1088
01:11:48,020 --> 01:11:50,620
You may go through a bunch.

1089
01:11:50,620 --> 01:11:51,620
I tried yoga.

1090
01:11:51,620 --> 01:11:52,620
I only went to one class.

1091
01:11:52,620 --> 01:11:54,180
I need to do it again.

1092
01:11:54,180 --> 01:11:56,140
But the one class wasn't for me.

1093
01:11:56,140 --> 01:11:59,360
So you got to find what works for you.

1094
01:11:59,360 --> 01:12:01,420
Your family, your friends, I have a support group.

1095
01:12:01,420 --> 01:12:04,220
And when we're done here, I'm going down to have coffee with them.

1096
01:12:04,220 --> 01:12:06,620
Very, very important to me.

1097
01:12:06,620 --> 01:12:08,260
Don't let people take that away from you.

1098
01:12:08,260 --> 01:12:13,500
You know, if you want to go down and these folks, we talk about everything.

1099
01:12:13,500 --> 01:12:15,300
And these folks, they're not in law enforcement.

1100
01:12:15,300 --> 01:12:16,920
They have nothing to do with it.

1101
01:12:16,920 --> 01:12:21,780
So I also have this anxiety to where sometimes it's hard to get out of the house, but they'll

1102
01:12:21,780 --> 01:12:22,780
call me up.

1103
01:12:22,780 --> 01:12:25,180
They'll text me, hey, Kev, you're coming down for coffee.

1104
01:12:25,180 --> 01:12:26,180
Forces me to get out of the house.

1105
01:12:26,180 --> 01:12:28,740
And I know a lot of people like this.

1106
01:12:28,740 --> 01:12:31,540
But once we get out and we're fantastic, happy to do it.

1107
01:12:31,540 --> 01:12:34,820
It's just tough sometimes getting out of the house.

1108
01:12:34,820 --> 01:12:35,820
I have two dogs.

1109
01:12:35,820 --> 01:12:37,940
I grew up doing a lot of hunting and fishing.

1110
01:12:37,940 --> 01:12:40,940
I had limeronters and labradors.

1111
01:12:40,940 --> 01:12:43,300
Travel a lot now, Kevin and I.

1112
01:12:43,300 --> 01:12:45,300
And I still want dogs.

1113
01:12:45,300 --> 01:12:46,300
So I have two chihuahuas.

1114
01:12:46,300 --> 01:12:49,100
And when we're on stage, I say I have two chihuahuas.

1115
01:12:49,100 --> 01:12:50,100
I would bow my head.

1116
01:12:50,100 --> 01:12:51,100
I show a picture of them.

1117
01:12:51,100 --> 01:12:52,100
But they're a blast.

1118
01:12:52,100 --> 01:12:55,380
One of them's sleeping next to me snoring like all hell right now.

1119
01:12:55,380 --> 01:12:56,660
She's a rescue.

1120
01:12:56,660 --> 01:13:00,260
She's about this big, like a foot long and a foot wide.

1121
01:13:00,260 --> 01:13:01,740
She's kind of fat.

1122
01:13:01,740 --> 01:13:09,660
But when we talk about our animals, the impact that they have on us, she is absolutely wonderful.

1123
01:13:09,660 --> 01:13:11,820
Came to us without a name, without an age.

1124
01:13:11,820 --> 01:13:13,260
She was severely abused.

1125
01:13:13,260 --> 01:13:15,140
Her ears are all jacked up.

1126
01:13:15,140 --> 01:13:18,460
It took her weeks before we could even touch her.

1127
01:13:18,460 --> 01:13:21,780
Had to take her out in the backyard and pour her out of the cage.

1128
01:13:21,780 --> 01:13:23,140
But this is like people too.

1129
01:13:23,140 --> 01:13:28,340
When they get beat down, just keep giving them love, keep giving them love, keep giving

1130
01:13:28,340 --> 01:13:30,980
them love and it can turn around.

1131
01:13:30,980 --> 01:13:33,420
Sometimes we got to get that professional care also.

1132
01:13:33,420 --> 01:13:37,580
But with this dog here, she's absolutely wonderful.

1133
01:13:37,580 --> 01:13:41,820
She feels like a ball of cotton and she just wants to be by us now.

1134
01:13:41,820 --> 01:13:42,820
It's a blast.

1135
01:13:42,820 --> 01:13:44,820
So these guys, they help me with the stress.

1136
01:13:44,820 --> 01:13:46,900
I love hanging out with them.

1137
01:13:46,900 --> 01:13:49,020
Find what works for you.

1138
01:13:49,020 --> 01:13:50,420
Absolutely.

1139
01:13:50,420 --> 01:13:52,860
My German Shepherd's sitting outside the door right now.

1140
01:13:52,860 --> 01:13:54,940
The one I had prior to that as well.

1141
01:13:54,940 --> 01:13:58,220
They absolutely saved my life 100%.

1142
01:13:58,220 --> 01:14:05,340
Talk to me then about the healing that you found from being able to use your stories

1143
01:14:05,340 --> 01:14:06,780
and helping other people.

1144
01:14:06,780 --> 01:14:09,660
Because I think that's the kind of what they say, the self-licking ice cream or whatever

1145
01:14:09,660 --> 01:14:10,660
the term is.

1146
01:14:10,660 --> 01:14:14,540
I don't think people realize that when they've been through this journey, how healing it

1147
01:14:14,540 --> 01:14:19,260
is to be a helper, especially if you wore a uniform as a help and you transition out

1148
01:14:19,260 --> 01:14:22,220
of that particular career.

1149
01:14:22,220 --> 01:14:25,060
It's very healing, but it's very difficult.

1150
01:14:25,060 --> 01:14:26,060
And Kev's seen it.

1151
01:14:26,060 --> 01:14:29,580
Sometimes I tell these stories of what happened on the bridge or myself and I break down.

1152
01:14:29,580 --> 01:14:32,100
It's tough and brutal.

1153
01:14:32,100 --> 01:14:35,060
But I believe in this and we always have a lot of takeaways.

1154
01:14:35,060 --> 01:14:39,100
What can the folks take away home to use?

1155
01:14:39,100 --> 01:14:43,140
But when somebody comes up and says, thank you for being here.

1156
01:14:43,140 --> 01:14:45,180
This has happened to me.

1157
01:14:45,180 --> 01:14:47,980
I'm going to go seek help.

1158
01:14:47,980 --> 01:14:52,100
And I have these people in my head and I have a horrible, horrible memory.

1159
01:14:52,100 --> 01:14:59,820
For a lot of different reasons, but I remember talking to a group of nurses and an elderly

1160
01:14:59,820 --> 01:15:00,820
nurse.

1161
01:15:00,820 --> 01:15:04,300
I talked about compassion fatigue and the death by a thousand cuts and all these different

1162
01:15:04,300 --> 01:15:07,100
things and I showed her this what's happened to us.

1163
01:15:07,100 --> 01:15:11,100
Cognitive, spiritual, all these things, somatic happens to us.

1164
01:15:11,100 --> 01:15:14,380
She came up and said, you know what?

1165
01:15:14,380 --> 01:15:15,860
I'm going to go get some help.

1166
01:15:15,860 --> 01:15:18,900
And she had been on the job for a long time.

1167
01:15:18,900 --> 01:15:22,820
That was cool when you can get a professional who's been doing this for a long time to come

1168
01:15:22,820 --> 01:15:23,820
up and say, you know what?

1169
01:15:23,820 --> 01:15:24,820
You're right.

1170
01:15:24,820 --> 01:15:25,820
I am going to get some help.

1171
01:15:25,820 --> 01:15:26,820
Nothing beats that.

1172
01:15:26,820 --> 01:15:27,820
You know?

1173
01:15:27,820 --> 01:15:33,740
So if I can play a small part in that and we've Kevin, I agree, you know, we can play

1174
01:15:33,740 --> 01:15:34,740
a small part in that.

1175
01:15:34,740 --> 01:15:35,740
Then we did our job.

1176
01:15:35,740 --> 01:15:38,300
Kevin, but say anything to add?

1177
01:15:38,300 --> 01:15:41,060
Yeah, I mean, I just, that's it.

1178
01:15:41,060 --> 01:15:42,540
Just, just like you said, he nailed it.

1179
01:15:42,540 --> 01:15:49,380
I mean, just, just playing a small part in the realignment of, of, of how somebody feels

1180
01:15:49,380 --> 01:15:52,860
about themselves and how they look at life.

1181
01:15:52,860 --> 01:15:53,860
That's it.

1182
01:15:53,860 --> 01:15:59,180
If we can, if, if, if you got up and at some point you hated life and you wanted to die

1183
01:15:59,180 --> 01:16:03,180
and you heard our story and at some point you looked at your life and say, you know

1184
01:16:03,180 --> 01:16:04,180
what?

1185
01:16:04,180 --> 01:16:05,180
It's worth living.

1186
01:16:05,180 --> 01:16:09,180
Then we, that's all that, that is the greatest gift that our story can give.

1187
01:16:09,180 --> 01:16:14,620
And I think that that's, that's all we're trying to do is trying to give back, you know,

1188
01:16:14,620 --> 01:16:18,900
pieces of, of, of, of, of pieces of it, because it's, it's, it's impactful.

1189
01:16:18,900 --> 01:16:24,420
I mean, I don't, I struggle with the idea that people in the world are struggling like,

1190
01:16:24,420 --> 01:16:26,180
when, like, like I was struggling.

1191
01:16:26,180 --> 01:16:31,100
And so for me, it's hard to know that anybody in the world feels for even for a moment,

1192
01:16:31,100 --> 01:16:32,100
like I feel.

1193
01:16:32,100 --> 01:16:37,360
So it's, it's this built in understanding that this is really, we, we got something

1194
01:16:37,360 --> 01:16:40,300
that can really change the world.

1195
01:16:40,300 --> 01:16:42,300
Like this is weirdly changing the world.

1196
01:16:42,300 --> 01:16:43,980
Cause I'm looking at where the world is.

1197
01:16:43,980 --> 01:16:49,140
I'm looking at the dynamics over people that, and we got a story and people always say,

1198
01:16:49,140 --> 01:16:50,380
well, why these two?

1199
01:16:50,380 --> 01:16:51,740
Well, why not?

1200
01:16:51,740 --> 01:16:56,680
I mean, because as I'm a humble person, he's a humble person.

1201
01:16:56,680 --> 01:17:03,860
We're the only two jerks that can, that can come together and not mess this up.

1202
01:17:03,860 --> 01:17:08,620
Like because we're so humble enough to know that it's not, that it's bigger than us.

1203
01:17:08,620 --> 01:17:13,140
Like I think that if you took anybody else, it just wouldn't work.

1204
01:17:13,140 --> 01:17:17,540
It's just, it is because he is who he is and it is because I am who I am.

1205
01:17:17,540 --> 01:17:20,260
And together it just works.

1206
01:17:20,260 --> 01:17:24,340
And you're, you're not going to find two other people that can make this work the way it

1207
01:17:24,340 --> 01:17:27,820
works because we are, you know, the way we are.

1208
01:17:27,820 --> 01:17:33,100
And I'm really starting to see that's, that's the powerful thing about us.

1209
01:17:33,100 --> 01:17:37,580
Like, you know, it had to be us and I'm grateful that it's us because we can embark on this

1210
01:17:37,580 --> 01:17:41,820
journey and really bring some change in this dark world.

1211
01:17:41,820 --> 01:17:44,460
And I'm just grateful for the journey of it all.

1212
01:17:44,460 --> 01:17:46,620
I'm just, I really am.

1213
01:17:46,620 --> 01:17:48,580
We're staying with you.

1214
01:17:48,580 --> 01:17:52,580
You guys obviously have been going around the country talking, you've done podcasts,

1215
01:17:52,580 --> 01:17:56,180
you know, like I said, you've both been on here a couple of times now, but now you're

1216
01:17:56,180 --> 01:17:59,880
entering another medium, which I adore, which is the documentary medium.

1217
01:17:59,880 --> 01:18:01,180
So talk to me about that.

1218
01:18:01,180 --> 01:18:05,380
I know that it's still kind of early stages, but you know, what was that discussion to

1219
01:18:05,380 --> 01:18:06,500
initiate that?

1220
01:18:06,500 --> 01:18:10,140
And then what can people expect?

1221
01:18:10,140 --> 01:18:13,060
Me and Briggs, we just came together.

1222
01:18:13,060 --> 01:18:19,420
People reached out, a group of individuals based out of Dallas reached out and it's near

1223
01:18:19,420 --> 01:18:23,700
and dear to our hearts because we both, the greatest thing about us, we both care equally

1224
01:18:23,700 --> 01:18:26,740
about this, the same, like it.

1225
01:18:26,740 --> 01:18:29,860
And so it had to be, if we were going to tell our story, if anybody was going to tell our

1226
01:18:29,860 --> 01:18:33,140
story that wasn't us, it had to be cause related.

1227
01:18:33,140 --> 01:18:39,020
It had to be, you know, and about change, it had to be about, you know, and I think

1228
01:18:39,020 --> 01:18:41,220
that they got it.

1229
01:18:41,220 --> 01:18:45,900
It took them, it took us a while to kind of collectively come to an understanding that

1230
01:18:45,900 --> 01:18:47,540
we would let them present it.

1231
01:18:47,540 --> 01:18:49,860
And you know, cause that takes a lot of trust.

1232
01:18:49,860 --> 01:18:52,580
Cause I know we want the story to come across a certain way.

1233
01:18:52,580 --> 01:18:55,580
We don't want any ego in it at all.

1234
01:18:55,580 --> 01:18:59,180
And I think that, you know, I can, you know, attest for both of us that we don't believe

1235
01:18:59,180 --> 01:19:00,180
in ego at all.

1236
01:19:00,180 --> 01:19:04,540
And so to come and tell this story and it comes from an egotistical standpoint will

1237
01:19:04,540 --> 01:19:07,940
be the worst thing that you could possibly do for all of us and humanity.

1238
01:19:07,940 --> 01:19:11,980
So I think that they're, they're going to be able to articulate our story and the day

1239
01:19:11,980 --> 01:19:17,540
that we met in order for it to bring change in the world and not have it be about us,

1240
01:19:17,540 --> 01:19:22,820
that our story is just, just the foundation to allow people to see how powerful connection

1241
01:19:22,820 --> 01:19:24,580
really can be.

1242
01:19:24,580 --> 01:19:29,140
And why not have us, you know, as, as, you know, the mirroring.

1243
01:19:29,140 --> 01:19:32,780
Bringing an image of what connection can look like.

1244
01:19:32,780 --> 01:19:35,100
Kevin Briggs, anything to add?

1245
01:19:35,100 --> 01:19:36,140
Kevin nailed it.

1246
01:19:36,140 --> 01:19:37,140
It's about cause.

1247
01:19:37,140 --> 01:19:41,940
When I left the highway patrol in 2013, I told myself if I'm going to do it right.

1248
01:19:41,940 --> 01:19:46,300
And mind you, I was government service all my life, had no clue, no clue what I was stepping

1249
01:19:46,300 --> 01:19:47,300
into.

1250
01:19:47,300 --> 01:19:51,060
But I said, it's gotta be about cause and then business.

1251
01:19:51,060 --> 01:19:54,660
And if that changes, I'm doing this wrong.

1252
01:19:54,660 --> 01:19:56,260
So that's what this is about.

1253
01:19:56,260 --> 01:19:57,380
It's about cause.

1254
01:19:57,380 --> 01:20:02,380
And if we can get it, get a show made that goes out there, that makes people think and

1255
01:20:02,380 --> 01:20:05,380
go, wow, you know, that was powerful.

1256
01:20:05,380 --> 01:20:06,380
Perfect.

1257
01:20:06,380 --> 01:20:09,540
Let's get them thinking.

1258
01:20:09,540 --> 01:20:14,020
I had quite an unusual experience when Kevin Hines's documentary came out.

1259
01:20:14,020 --> 01:20:17,860
It was one of those dynamics where, you know, if you get enough people to buy tickets, you

1260
01:20:17,860 --> 01:20:20,540
can get it shown at a local theater.

1261
01:20:20,540 --> 01:20:23,660
And so I did that here in Ocala.

1262
01:20:23,660 --> 01:20:29,580
Ironically, my wife had done several of the suicide walks and I reached out to that organization

1263
01:20:29,580 --> 01:20:30,940
and said, Hey, would you help me share this?

1264
01:20:30,940 --> 01:20:32,980
We're going to have this film showing in town.

1265
01:20:32,980 --> 01:20:35,820
Then we're going to have, they're going to let us have, you know, 30 minutes after for

1266
01:20:35,820 --> 01:20:37,540
some discussion.

1267
01:20:37,540 --> 01:20:38,700
Never heard a thing.

1268
01:20:38,700 --> 01:20:39,700
Not a thing.

1269
01:20:39,700 --> 01:20:42,220
They were more than happy for me to walk and put beads on my neck and give them money.

1270
01:20:42,220 --> 01:20:45,740
But when it came to actually bringing community and not a peep.

1271
01:20:45,740 --> 01:20:47,820
So I'll just, that's my own personal experience.

1272
01:20:47,820 --> 01:20:51,180
But you know, we know some of these bigger organizations aren't always actually walking

1273
01:20:51,180 --> 01:20:52,420
the walk.

1274
01:20:52,420 --> 01:20:55,180
That being said though, we made it happen.

1275
01:20:55,180 --> 01:20:56,460
I forget how many people came.

1276
01:20:56,460 --> 01:20:59,340
It was 60 around then.

1277
01:20:59,340 --> 01:21:01,140
So quite a lot of people.

1278
01:21:01,140 --> 01:21:05,300
And I watched the power of a documentary on mental health and it was incredible.

1279
01:21:05,300 --> 01:21:09,140
And after people were sharing their stories and even outside the theater, people were

1280
01:21:09,140 --> 01:21:12,160
coming over and sharing more stories.

1281
01:21:12,160 --> 01:21:18,380
So I've actually seen ironically up close and personal the impact of a film that you're

1282
01:21:18,380 --> 01:21:20,820
going to make on the audience.

1283
01:21:20,820 --> 01:21:25,940
And it's hard to see on ticket sales and those kinds of metrics, but to actually host one

1284
01:21:25,940 --> 01:21:30,980
and see the impact on an audience, I know that you're going to really, really grab people

1285
01:21:30,980 --> 01:21:33,260
by the throat in a positive way.

1286
01:21:33,260 --> 01:21:36,460
And your message is going to resonate with a lot of people.

1287
01:21:36,460 --> 01:21:38,940
That's what we're hoping for.

1288
01:21:38,940 --> 01:21:43,900
Because if we've talked about it, we're losing over 49,000 people here in the United States,

1289
01:21:43,900 --> 01:21:44,900
700,000 worldwide.

1290
01:21:44,900 --> 01:21:50,660
I mean, we got to start talking about this more, but do so in a right manner.

1291
01:21:50,660 --> 01:21:56,580
Have good information and make it about the cause not to make a buck.

1292
01:21:56,580 --> 01:22:00,180
And we'll go ahead and we'll do this right.

1293
01:22:00,180 --> 01:22:01,460
Absolutely.

1294
01:22:01,460 --> 01:22:04,900
When can we expect the film to be out?

1295
01:22:04,900 --> 01:22:05,900
That's a tough one.

1296
01:22:05,900 --> 01:22:06,900
That's a tough one.

1297
01:22:06,900 --> 01:22:08,500
I would suspect within two years.

1298
01:22:08,500 --> 01:22:10,420
I would suspect within two years.

1299
01:22:10,420 --> 01:22:11,420
We want it done right.

1300
01:22:11,420 --> 01:22:14,140
So if it takes longer, that's okay.

1301
01:22:14,140 --> 01:22:15,140
Absolutely.

1302
01:22:15,140 --> 01:22:16,140
There's another one.

1303
01:22:16,140 --> 01:22:17,620
I had a guest on the show, Emma Benoit.

1304
01:22:17,620 --> 01:22:25,060
She's from Louisiana and she was, I think, 17 where she attempted suicide with a pistol.

1305
01:22:25,060 --> 01:22:28,100
She survived the attempt, ended up in a wheelchair.

1306
01:22:28,100 --> 01:22:32,100
And she is an incredible voice as well for this conversation, especially in our younger

1307
01:22:32,100 --> 01:22:33,100
people.

1308
01:22:33,100 --> 01:22:39,700
Because obviously a lot of these mental health documentaries tend to be adult beyond school.

1309
01:22:39,700 --> 01:22:41,780
And it's just, again, it's another testament.

1310
01:22:41,780 --> 01:22:45,980
Hers is called My Ascension to the power of documentaries.

1311
01:22:45,980 --> 01:22:49,660
And I think especially now with the streaming services, they're just, people are really

1312
01:22:49,660 --> 01:22:54,140
starting to lean into them and you can really kind of remove that filter and put a powerful

1313
01:22:54,140 --> 01:22:56,140
message directly into the home now.

1314
01:22:56,140 --> 01:22:57,580
I've heard of her.

1315
01:22:57,580 --> 01:22:59,620
I'm friends with her on some social media.

1316
01:22:59,620 --> 01:23:05,380
I've not met her, but yes, you know, sad story, but phenomenal person.

1317
01:23:05,380 --> 01:23:06,380
Absolutely.

1318
01:23:06,380 --> 01:23:07,380
All right.

1319
01:23:07,380 --> 01:23:10,420
Well, I just want to make sure that we talk about each of your own personal projects as

1320
01:23:10,420 --> 01:23:11,420
well.

1321
01:23:11,420 --> 01:23:14,740
So Kevin, let's talk about your foundation first.

1322
01:23:14,740 --> 01:23:22,940
Four years ago, I created the Kevin Berthea Foundation, right, right.

1323
01:23:22,940 --> 01:23:25,180
Pretty much around COVID when COVID happened.

1324
01:23:25,180 --> 01:23:31,660
And it was from the lack of realizing that it was nothing out there that cater to who

1325
01:23:31,660 --> 01:23:38,020
I was as an individual and cater to people like me that struggled, you know, with no

1326
01:23:38,020 --> 01:23:39,020
voice.

1327
01:23:39,020 --> 01:23:43,660
People, so many people that that look normal on the outside, but really were struggling

1328
01:23:43,660 --> 01:23:45,380
in these dark places on the inside.

1329
01:23:45,380 --> 01:23:49,740
And I just wanted to have a voice for those people and let them know that we could all

1330
01:23:49,740 --> 01:23:54,220
come out and talk about these things and we no longer had to be shameful and hide who

1331
01:23:54,220 --> 01:23:55,220
we really are.

1332
01:23:55,220 --> 01:24:00,100
And so I create the foundation for people like me, not to say people that just look

1333
01:24:00,100 --> 01:24:03,660
like me, for people that look like me internally, not externally.

1334
01:24:03,660 --> 01:24:09,380
And so, yeah, so I, a lot of different things, a lot of dreams, a lot of different things

1335
01:24:09,380 --> 01:24:10,980
that I want to want to happen.

1336
01:24:10,980 --> 01:24:16,340
But we're in the early stages of it, when I become 511C3 and get, you know, hopefully

1337
01:24:16,340 --> 01:24:21,060
end goal, work with clinicians, hopefully work with some doctors and, you know, start,

1338
01:24:21,060 --> 01:24:22,060
you know, get some patients.

1339
01:24:22,060 --> 01:24:25,340
I mean, it's just so many different things I want to do, but it started off as a dream

1340
01:24:25,340 --> 01:24:27,580
and kind of just, it's kind of just took off.

1341
01:24:27,580 --> 01:24:32,540
And in the last couple of years, I've added different things and, you know, we just keep

1342
01:24:32,540 --> 01:24:33,540
rolling.

1343
01:24:33,540 --> 01:24:36,780
I mean, you know, I knew that it was going to take probably 10 years to really get to

1344
01:24:36,780 --> 01:24:37,780
where I wanted to be.

1345
01:24:37,780 --> 01:24:41,620
So I'm four years in and looking forward to the next six.

1346
01:24:41,620 --> 01:24:45,460
And where can people find you and or the foundation online?

1347
01:24:45,460 --> 01:24:52,980
I'm at my website, www.kevinberthiafoundation.org.

1348
01:24:52,980 --> 01:24:56,860
I noticed the sounds kind of, you can kind of Google my name, Kevin Berthia, all my stuff

1349
01:24:56,860 --> 01:24:57,860
pops up.

1350
01:24:57,860 --> 01:24:58,860
And I don't just say that to be egotistical.

1351
01:24:58,860 --> 01:25:00,820
It's just all my information is here.

1352
01:25:00,820 --> 01:25:01,820
The power of Google.

1353
01:25:01,820 --> 01:25:05,980
I mean, you can literally put a name in, in a search engine and everything that has to

1354
01:25:05,980 --> 01:25:09,100
do with me and relates to me and what I'm doing comes up.

1355
01:25:09,100 --> 01:25:10,820
So it's a great tool to have.

1356
01:25:10,820 --> 01:25:11,820
That's why I love Google.

1357
01:25:11,820 --> 01:25:13,740
I mean, you know, it's just it's out there.

1358
01:25:13,740 --> 01:25:16,420
So and that's where my foundation is my website.

1359
01:25:16,420 --> 01:25:18,060
I'm on all social medias.

1360
01:25:18,060 --> 01:25:20,740
I made it like that because that's where people are at.

1361
01:25:20,740 --> 01:25:21,940
So I could be reached.

1362
01:25:21,940 --> 01:25:23,820
I'm easy and hard and easy.

1363
01:25:23,820 --> 01:25:24,820
Fine.

1364
01:25:24,820 --> 01:25:25,820
Brilliant.

1365
01:25:25,820 --> 01:25:29,340
When you used to Google James Gearing, there was a pedophile from Manchester, England and

1366
01:25:29,340 --> 01:25:31,180
a drug dealer from Australia.

1367
01:25:31,180 --> 01:25:34,100
Luckily now when you Google it as a podcaster.

1368
01:25:34,100 --> 01:25:38,380
So I managed to push those people further down.

1369
01:25:38,380 --> 01:25:40,500
That's terrible.

1370
01:25:40,500 --> 01:25:44,580
Well Kevin Briggs, same with you, you know, where people can find you and then the the

1371
01:25:44,580 --> 01:25:46,060
projects that you have out there.

1372
01:25:46,060 --> 01:25:47,060
Sure.

1373
01:25:47,060 --> 01:25:50,580
So kind of like what you have just said here, if they Google me, I think a bunch of stuff

1374
01:25:50,580 --> 01:25:51,940
comes up.

1375
01:25:51,940 --> 01:25:57,700
But it's it started this organization in 2014, Pivotal Points.

1376
01:25:57,700 --> 01:25:59,380
And we have many pivotal points in life.

1377
01:25:59,380 --> 01:26:05,900
And it's not just life based, it's career based, you know, and maybe it's education.

1378
01:26:05,900 --> 01:26:07,300
Do I have the money to go to school?

1379
01:26:07,300 --> 01:26:08,300
Do I have the time to go to school?

1380
01:26:08,300 --> 01:26:10,540
It's a pivotal point in our lives.

1381
01:26:10,540 --> 01:26:12,940
So we need to think about this.

1382
01:26:12,940 --> 01:26:18,140
But the presentation has been all around little little places like Borneo all the way over

1383
01:26:18,140 --> 01:26:24,980
to Germany, Mexico, talking about this to folks, whether it's corporations, communities,

1384
01:26:24,980 --> 01:26:29,460
schools, the military, mental health is everywhere.

1385
01:26:29,460 --> 01:26:31,420
We know that fairly obvious.

1386
01:26:31,420 --> 01:26:34,780
But folks are really starting to realize the importance of it.

1387
01:26:34,780 --> 01:26:40,620
You know, a happy employee is going to do a hell of a lot better for your company.

1388
01:26:40,620 --> 01:26:48,340
So things like this, I can be reached at Kevin Briggs at Pivotal Hypen Points dot com.

1389
01:26:48,340 --> 01:26:51,900
You can go on the website and look at some different things.

1390
01:26:51,900 --> 01:26:57,900
So I have one book out, I'm in the process of updating that now.

1391
01:26:57,900 --> 01:26:59,900
We'll probably come out with that next year.

1392
01:26:59,900 --> 01:27:05,860
I'm writing a pamphlet, probably about eight pages that I want to give out when we do presentations

1393
01:27:05,860 --> 01:27:07,260
about having that conversation.

1394
01:27:07,260 --> 01:27:13,180
So you have a hard copy of just something really quick to go through.

1395
01:27:13,180 --> 01:27:18,620
So doing things like this, social media Kevin's way better than I'm 61.

1396
01:27:18,620 --> 01:27:20,500
I struggle with it.

1397
01:27:20,500 --> 01:27:23,860
I kind of follow his lead on a lot of this.

1398
01:27:23,860 --> 01:27:28,020
But I am on the social media, just not very good at it.

1399
01:27:28,020 --> 01:27:30,660
Still a work in progress as many things.

1400
01:27:30,660 --> 01:27:34,340
So we hope we hope to do this for quite some time.

1401
01:27:34,340 --> 01:27:40,020
I hope to can do this for quite some time to get out and give folks some real world

1402
01:27:40,020 --> 01:27:46,340
skills and information about how we can improve our lives and those around us.

1403
01:27:46,340 --> 01:27:47,660
Beautiful.

1404
01:27:47,660 --> 01:27:50,660
I want to just ask one more question and then we'll close out.

1405
01:27:50,660 --> 01:27:56,740
But I think it's important because the real the anxiety when it comes to the mental health

1406
01:27:56,740 --> 01:28:01,980
conversation is especially if you have a fellow firefighter or whoever it is that you work

1407
01:28:01,980 --> 01:28:04,980
around that's truly in crisis.

1408
01:28:04,980 --> 01:28:08,700
So if someone's saying I'm starting to feel kind of depressed, I'm drinking too much,

1409
01:28:08,700 --> 01:28:10,940
obviously you know that hopefully there's some leeway.

1410
01:28:10,940 --> 01:28:13,420
Okay, we need to get you some help, get you a counselor.

1411
01:28:13,420 --> 01:28:20,340
Talk to me about the communication with someone who you think is close to or imminent as far

1412
01:28:20,340 --> 01:28:22,460
as a suicide attempt.

1413
01:28:22,460 --> 01:28:27,140
How do you communicate with these people and then where is the cutoff point for actually

1414
01:28:27,140 --> 01:28:33,220
you know maybe you know the Baker Act as we call it here in Florida or 5150, you know,

1415
01:28:33,220 --> 01:28:37,940
using law enforcement to actually ensure that person's safety.

1416
01:28:37,940 --> 01:28:45,500
Some information with you regarding follow-up whether that's the 988 if you need to call

1417
01:28:45,500 --> 01:28:50,860
that and you can that's our suicide prevention lifeline crisis hotline.

1418
01:28:50,860 --> 01:28:56,820
It used to be 1-800-273-TALK and does now 988 or 741-741.

1419
01:28:56,820 --> 01:29:01,700
Have these things with you as information for them and you could use them.

1420
01:29:01,700 --> 01:29:04,580
You say hey I'm going to have a conversation with an individual.

1421
01:29:04,580 --> 01:29:05,580
What can I do?

1422
01:29:05,580 --> 01:29:09,860
They can help you have that to give to that individual.

1423
01:29:09,860 --> 01:29:16,580
Remember have this conversation in a place where that person feels comfortable.

1424
01:29:16,580 --> 01:29:19,460
Keep it foremost in your mind is about them.

1425
01:29:19,460 --> 01:29:22,060
Probably toughest conversation you're going to have or one of them.

1426
01:29:22,060 --> 01:29:24,980
So you want it about them.

1427
01:29:24,980 --> 01:29:28,140
Hey Bob, I've noticed these different things.

1428
01:29:28,140 --> 01:29:30,940
I've heard these different things that's been going on in your life.

1429
01:29:30,940 --> 01:29:33,460
I want to let you know I'm here for you.

1430
01:29:33,460 --> 01:29:35,620
You do not have to go through this stuff alone.

1431
01:29:35,620 --> 01:29:37,220
If you'd like to talk about it, I'm here.

1432
01:29:37,220 --> 01:29:40,020
If they do want to talk about it, fantastic.

1433
01:29:40,020 --> 01:29:42,140
Let them speak.

1434
01:29:42,140 --> 01:29:48,060
If it comes to the point to where you know what maybe they're thinking about suicide.

1435
01:29:48,060 --> 01:29:49,060
Ask them.

1436
01:29:49,060 --> 01:29:51,380
Ask them about it and that's hard.

1437
01:29:51,380 --> 01:29:53,460
But you can make it like this.

1438
01:29:53,460 --> 01:29:59,100
You know what anybody going through all that stuff might be thinking about killing themselves.

1439
01:29:59,100 --> 01:30:01,540
Have you been thinking about suicide?

1440
01:30:01,540 --> 01:30:04,220
Sit back, relax, take a breath.

1441
01:30:04,220 --> 01:30:05,220
Let them answer.

1442
01:30:05,220 --> 01:30:09,220
And if what if they say yes.

1443
01:30:09,220 --> 01:30:10,220
Don't lose it.

1444
01:30:10,220 --> 01:30:12,020
You know we all are like oh my god what are you thinking?

1445
01:30:12,020 --> 01:30:13,020
Are you stupid?

1446
01:30:13,020 --> 01:30:14,020
How can you do this to your family?

1447
01:30:14,020 --> 01:30:16,260
How can you do this to your friends?

1448
01:30:16,260 --> 01:30:17,260
Take a breath.

1449
01:30:17,260 --> 01:30:18,260
All right.

1450
01:30:18,260 --> 01:30:19,860
How long you been thinking about this?

1451
01:30:19,860 --> 01:30:21,620
Do you have a plan?

1452
01:30:21,620 --> 01:30:24,060
Have you tried this before?

1453
01:30:24,060 --> 01:30:25,460
See what they say.

1454
01:30:25,460 --> 01:30:29,300
You know well I tried this before but couldn't do it because of my kids.

1455
01:30:29,300 --> 01:30:30,300
Great.

1456
01:30:30,300 --> 01:30:31,780
They can talk about their kids.

1457
01:30:31,780 --> 01:30:35,660
If it seems eminent do not be afraid to call 911.

1458
01:30:35,660 --> 01:30:39,180
If you are 911 get somebody outside.

1459
01:30:39,180 --> 01:30:40,500
Get some help.

1460
01:30:40,500 --> 01:30:45,700
That person if there's firearms involved let's make them safe.

1461
01:30:45,700 --> 01:30:50,700
Don't say you know what can I take your firearms from you for a while and just hold them.

1462
01:30:50,700 --> 01:30:51,700
You know what?

1463
01:30:51,700 --> 01:30:52,700
No.

1464
01:30:52,700 --> 01:30:57,580
Can I store your guns at my house for a bit till we get work through this.

1465
01:30:57,580 --> 01:31:03,740
Offer that EAP, that Employee Assistance Program, but make sure that those counselors are trained

1466
01:31:03,740 --> 01:31:06,540
in suicide or whatever it is that they're going through.

1467
01:31:06,540 --> 01:31:11,060
I've had some very bad experiences with some who weren't trained that thought they knew

1468
01:31:11,060 --> 01:31:12,700
how to do things.

1469
01:31:12,700 --> 01:31:21,420
So simply really by being there for them it makes a world of difference.

1470
01:31:21,420 --> 01:31:25,780
But don't be afraid to get some help because we don't have to go through this alone.

1471
01:31:25,780 --> 01:31:30,780
You know they make that decision but they made it with an unhealthy brain.

1472
01:31:30,780 --> 01:31:33,900
Be responsive but not responsible.

1473
01:31:33,900 --> 01:31:35,380
Amazing.

1474
01:31:35,380 --> 01:31:36,780
Thank you so much.

1475
01:31:36,780 --> 01:31:39,220
Kevin Bothea anything to add?

1476
01:31:39,220 --> 01:31:40,220
I'm good.

1477
01:31:40,220 --> 01:31:41,220
Brakes nailed it.

1478
01:31:41,220 --> 01:31:42,220
I'm good.

1479
01:31:42,220 --> 01:31:43,220
Absolutely he did.

1480
01:31:43,220 --> 01:31:44,220
All right.

1481
01:31:44,220 --> 01:31:46,620
Well I just want to thank you so much.

1482
01:31:46,620 --> 01:31:50,780
Like I said we had two individual conversations that were phenomenal but the dynamic of you

1483
01:31:50,780 --> 01:31:55,180
together and kind of piecing this journey bit by bit and your unique perspectives and

1484
01:31:55,180 --> 01:31:58,500
all these topics that we've covered has been truly invaluable.

1485
01:31:58,500 --> 01:31:59,500
It's been incredible.

1486
01:31:59,500 --> 01:32:03,740
So I want to thank you both so so much for being so generous with your time and coming

1487
01:32:03,740 --> 01:32:05,780
back to the Behind the Shield podcast.

1488
01:32:05,780 --> 01:32:06,780
It's been a pleasure.

1489
01:32:06,780 --> 01:32:07,780
Phenomenal.

1490
01:32:07,780 --> 01:32:08,780
It's been an absolute pleasure.

1491
01:32:08,780 --> 01:32:09,780
Thank you, James.

1492
01:32:09,780 --> 01:32:25,420
Thank you.