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This episode is sponsored by Transcend, a veteran owned and operated performance optimization company that I introduced recently as a sponsor on this show.

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Well, since then, I have actually been using my products and I've had incredible success.

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There was initial blood work that was extremely detailed and based on that, they offered supplementation.

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So I began taking DHEA, BPC 157 for inflammation based on the fact that I've been a stump man and martial artist and a firefighter my whole life.

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Lots of aches and pains.

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Dihexer to help cognition after multiple punches to the head and shift work and peptides.

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Four months later, they did a detailed blood work again and I was actually able to taper off two of the peptides because my body had responded so well to just one of them that it was optimized at that point.

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So I cannot speak highly enough of the immense range of supplementation that they offer, whether it's male health, female health, peptides to boost your own testosterone, which I would argue is needed by a lot of the fire service, or whether it's exogenous testosterone needed, especially after TBIs or advanced age.

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Now, as I mentioned before, the other side of this company is an altruistic arm called the Transcend Foundation, which is putting veterans and first responders through some of their protocols free of charge.

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Now, Transcend are also offering you the audience 10% off their protocols and you can find that on JamesGearing.com under the products tab.

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And if you want to hear more about Transcend and their story, listen to episode 808 with the founder Ernie Colling.

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Or go to TranscendCompany.com.

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Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast. As always, my name is James Gearing and this week it is my absolute honor to welcome on the show Muay Thai champion, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu black belt and world catch wrestling champion Ian Mongoose Jones.

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Now in this conversation, we discuss a host of topics from his turbulent childhood, his journey into combat sports, striking, the world of grappling, the hidden secrets of catch wrestling, grappling in law enforcement and so much more.

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Now, before we get to this incredible conversation, as I say every week, please just take a moment.

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Go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback and leave a rating.

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Every single five star rating truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making it easier for others to find.

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And this is a free library of almost 1000 episodes now.

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So all I ask in return is that you help share these incredible men and women stories so I can get them to every single person on planet Earth who needs to hear them.

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So with that being said, I introduce to you, Ian Jones. Enjoy.

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So Ian, I want to start by saying firstly, thank you for accepting a message from a completely random dude on Instagram and secondly coming on the Behind the Shield podcast today.

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You're welcome.

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It's nice to be asked to be fair, I enjoy doing stuff and meeting people and things like that. So yeah, it's good.

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Brilliant. So where on planet Earth are we finding you? Your evening, my afternoon.

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I live in a little mining village, you've probably never heard it called South Kirby, which is probably the end of world.

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It's just a little crappy town, really. Not much going on, no wrestling, no nothing really. So it's like back and beyond.

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Were you born in that town?

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I was born here, yeah. I'd have liked to have been born somewhere different, but yeah, it's, we call it Sesquio, it's a group of mining villages, that's all like together.

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But if you go out of a village, you fall off End at World, it's one of them type of places. So yeah, a lot of nice, but everyone knows everyone's business and stuff like that, so yeah, it's a bit backwards.

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Well, speaking of that, before we even dive into kind of your early life, the history of the town, because when you were the village, when you think about, when I think about mining, growing up in the UK in the 70s and 80s,

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there's a lot of the mines being closed and the impact that had on the people of that town or that village. What was the history of mining in your village and are they still mining today?

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They don't mine anymore, but my dad was a miner, obviously. He worked at a place called Kirby Pit or Kirby Colliery.

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And I can remember at strike, because I can remember it probably, at the time, it was probably the worst days of my life, growing up, because we had nothing.

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I can remember going to school in second hand clothes and stuff like that, but when I looked back, it was really good for me, because it was all character building.

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I can remember even just little things like going pee-picking with my dad to make money and shopping wood, put fire and stuff like that. So it was good.

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And obviously my dad, my dad used to, they didn't get much money because he didn't work, so they used to go rioting and stuff like that, again, police. So obviously, police in this area, it's like frowned upon with miners,

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because my dad's grown up years, like 18 police, but a lot of my family are in police and stuff like that. So it's impacted me in a way, I suppose, well, it's made me appreciate things in life.

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It's like, when I was growing up, I didn't have much, you know what I mean? It was one of those communities, we used to like actually go to a place called, I think we used to call it M's of Scroungers at school,

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and they used to give clothes and stuff like that, and trainers and stuff like that. And it was like, you used to get pissed at guys for wearing it, bullied really for wearing it,

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because I don't like it, I want it posh kids and all like that. And then I used to wear my brothers hand-me-downs, so yeah, different, difficult times, I suppose.

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Yeah, it's really funny, because I grew up, my dad was a vet, veterinary surgeon, so you would think there was a lot of money, but he was amazing with his job, but the business side was terrible.

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And I used to be in a lot of Oxfam clothes myself, and we had to wear uniform in junior school and senior school, so I think that took away some of the bullying.

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But it was almost worse, because from the outside, people thought we had money. I'm not pretending I was in some deep poverty, but yeah, we were in secondhand clothes.

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Sometimes we had flour cakes for dinner, and it never dawned on me as an adult, I was like, oh, that's what you eat when you're poor, and there's nothing in the fridge.

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You flour more, and you mix it together, and you put it on the frying pan. So yeah, it's interesting how that does add undue stress to a child,

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not only the fact that you're having to find clothes to wear or food to eat, but also the kind of guilt and shame when some of the other kids are basically making fun of you,

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because you're the air quotes poor kid in the school.

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Yeah, like I said, I won't change it now, it made me what I am, but it's good, isn't it?

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It was interesting as well when you said about the police, because even today, when you think about a few years ago with COVID,

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them having to enforce all the gyms being shut down, which was insanity, but they're kind of a scapegoat for these political decisions.

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The people that make them, people that decide to close the mines or shut down the world because of a virus, whatever it is,

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they're not the ones knocking on people's doors, they're sending the police to do it, and then the police then in turn become the bad guys.

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Yeah, it's like we're on riots at the moment, I wouldn't do that for a golden pig, we're police and stuff like that.

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They're basically just carrying fodder, aren't they, just for people to throw stones at and stuff like that.

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But in lockdown, I'll train, to be fair, because of my shed and I've trained in my back garden, I'll train a group of police all through lockdown.

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So when the first came to me, they said, will you train me with wrestling and grappling?

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I went, well, you're not going to lock me up by hand. They said, no, we could get locked up just as bad.

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So I trained a lot of police through lockdown, which was weird really, because it was probably my busiest time.

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Do you know why? Because I got my PT from home and stuff like that, so it was my busiest time, so all gyms were shut.

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So it would have been a godsend in a sense, I had a gym in my back garden.

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Yeah, I mean, this is what's crazy, that's what I had too.

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We were in Florida, so Florida was actually, we were very lucky, we had a governor that took it seriously,

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but then as they started seeing more and more data within our state, they were like, oh, OK, we'll open the gyms,

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we'll open the restaurants and it slowly kind of filtered in again.

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But if you think about it during that time, what people needed was community, exercise, good food,

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all the things that they were telling you not to do.

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So it was kind of shitty really when you look back and the advice everyone was given was completely wrong.

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Yeah, don't go lick your 96 year old grandmother's face, it's probably not a good idea.

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But yeah, you need to get outside, you need to exercise, and especially if you're in uniform, yeah, you need to keep training

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because you never know the next person that you go on might try and kill you.

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And if you haven't exercised or done jiu-jitsu for two years, now you're going to be even more vulnerable

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to some extremists that you're trying to catch in your town.

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Not only that, crime rate went up, did it? Because no one had money or all that, so robberies were going up in my area.

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There's a lot of people getting blocked into, the cars getting stolen, that's still true.

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It's a bit backwards round here, everyone's getting blocked into.

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As far as with that, crime rate went up through the roof, wheels were coving and stuff like that.

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It affected everything. And then mental health's gone up, everything's gone up.

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But yeah, I'm glad I trained my way through it. Probably 50 step into it, to be fair, because I was training all the time, so it was good for me.

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Absolutely, yeah, we had the front of where I train, the jiu-jitsu side, they had their front door closed,

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but you just go through the back door and everyone was, and it was just an agreement.

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Are you all okay with this? They were like, yeah, okay, so we carried on. Yeah, brilliant.

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A lot of people that end up as high level combat athletes, usually there's an element of some suffering.

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You mentioned obviously being teased with the whole poverty side, but a lot of times you're building that armor,

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you're creating that person that won't be bullied anymore, that can protect other people.

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So when you look back at your early life, what were other elements that you contribute were challenging,

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was suffering at the time when you were a kid?

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I think it was because obviously I've never been, when I was younger, I was always smallest in my class.

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I was always smallest, probably most underdeveloped kid.

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And then I got, it was weird because at school I was picked on for being smaller and stuff like that.

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And I wasn't the brightest kid academically either as well, so I was in reading units and all I seem to do was show and knit in my class.

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That's all I seemed to learn, so I learnt life skill there.

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But then I was getting bullied at home by my brother and then I had my cousins with me next door to me as well,

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and they were a group of lads and they used to pick on me as well.

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So I had it rough to be fair. And then I guess I was trying to still find my sense and stuff like that.

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I didn't know what I wanted because I wasn't very academic.

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And then one day, obviously I bought some heroin, believe it or not.

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When I was 15 years old, my friends started taking drugs and they bought some heroin.

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And I said, oh, I'll drink some. And I basically gave them half the money to order.

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We didn't know what it was. And that day, I didn't tell my brother about it.

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We were going to have it the day after. My brother told me to keep watching.

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And that's where it all stemmed from. Then I fell in love with the world, fell in love with martial arts, started doing keep watching.

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And I found out that I was quite good at it. I went around the world doing it.

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So it just led to other things. But then obviously all my friends who I was hanging out with,

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they were addicted to heroin and drugs and stuff like that.

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And then I just carried on with martial arts and I never looked back.

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So it saved me. It saved my life really when I looked back because I would probably end up in jail with just doing an eight or ten.

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It's been a positive thing. So right now with martial arts, like with any other living,

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I'm trying to give back. I'm teaching a lot of young kids and adults and stuff like that just to get them off the wrong side of the tracks.

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There's a few kids that I've trained that could have gone either way.

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So I think I've got them into competing and stuff like that. So I'll probably change their lives.

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You don't realise how much impact you have on other people's lives teaching martial arts.

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Well, I've heard over and over again on here with all the guests is that a lot of them end up being the fighters, their SAS, whatever the thing is they ended up doing.

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But a lot of them had really shitty upbringings initially. And it was that mentor, that crossroads.

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And like you said, it could have gone one way, you end up in prison or dead or it went the other way and you end up in the military or in a martial arts gym.

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And it was that personal that maybe the handful of people that allowed them to make the turn the right way rather than the wrong way.

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Yeah, it was probably my brother who saved my life when I think about it.

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I looked up to him because he was always into weights and always in good shape and stuff like that.

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So he sort of put me on the right track really. And he's a boxing coach now.

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But then, my mum and dad really, they were just hardworking citizens. My dad would remind them and my mum was a nurse or a carer type thing.

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So I suppose I've always had good parents, hardworking parents and that. But I've never been fed with silver spoon as they say.

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But my brother, I suppose in a sense, he was a big part of it really.

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Because he took me to all boxing gyms and then got me into Thai boxing and then obviously grappling I found later on in life like in the 20s, 1920s.

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So that's when I moved on to, I fell in love with kickboxing and stuff like that.

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And I think I won probably three or four British tiles at that as a kid.

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Then did boxing and then Thai boxing. I went all over at Wilbert Thai boxing and then found MMA and Jiu Jitsu and then I found catch wrestling last to be fair.

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But everyone, I've been really lucky with coaches, dropped on some really good role models and stuff like that.

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So I suppose they've saved my life as well in a sense.

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Well, you talked about your brother being one of the mentors that steers you in the right direction.

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But I heard you discussing some of the things that your brother did prior to that as a bully. So it wasn't just names, was it?

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No, I was up in bread bags on my head with shit in them and stuff like that.

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I was tortured but I wouldn't change it at all. I would not change it.

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I still like it now with my brother. Not with me, but he's just an absolute joker.

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But when I look back, it's shaped who I am. It's a good thing in some cases.

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Probably left me mentally scarred in other ways.

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What about career aspirations? You mentioned not having much of a direction.

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I wasn't great academically. I was a C-if-that student when I finished my GCSEs and everything.

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And again, when it came to being inspired, I did one of those tests.

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I don't know if it was the same generation as you, but it told you what you could be.

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You do all your grades and everything. I think it said, like, badger tamer and otter trainer or something.

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Nothing inspiring.

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I believe it or not, I wanted to be a vet.

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Oh really?

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I wanted to be a vet. The thing is, I can't even cut a chicken breast open raw.

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I did want to be a vet, but there was no way on God's Earth. I didn't pass anything.

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I think I got a C in drama that way. Maybe a D in woodwork. I want the brightest.

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But I think, like you said, I've made a career out of martial arts and sports.

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The thing is, I wasn't even a sports person at school. I was always like last year, races and stuff like that.

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And it's only later on, like, into my teens, really, that I started doing weights and stuff like that.

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That put me on the right path.

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And now I fell into a job where I worked for council in gyms.

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So basically the classes like to teach spinning polis and stuff like that.

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And kettlebell classes and all sorts of boxing and things like that.

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So I have that as my conditioning for everyday life.

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So when I go to work, I'm getting paid for being fit.

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So I'm doing my gym work at work.

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Then I work on doors as well.

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So I'm having that as my psychological, almost like psychological warfare.

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So you're learning how to read people's body languages and stuff like that.

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And then my martial arts, that's like my training for everyday stuff.

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So I think that just keeps you humble, martial arts.

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And not only that, I'm not a trouble causer, but I always think like when people ask me what I actually train for,

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I don't train for aesthetics or anything like that.

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I train for like violence. Not that I'm a violent person, but I train to almost like survival of a fittest out there, isn't it?

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You've got to be able to protect your family, protect yourself.

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And I think that's a big thing.

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I think that's why I train, really, because I think you only get one body at the end of the day.

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And I think you've got to be able to defend your family and yourself, really.

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So I think that's the most important thing in life, really, being able to look after yourself.

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Like most people who go to work, they go home, they go and sit on the sofa all day,

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and they don't have a clue what's going on out in modern day.

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And it's that easy now with like knife attacks and stuff like that.

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And I think there's a lot of people who live in like cuckoo land.

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So I think you've got to understand what's like the door side, the doors and security side of things.

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When I do that, it's made me realise that it's keeping me sharper on my toes.

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So I've got to desensitise, you know what I mean?

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Most people think that there's no violence outside, but I've been attacked with everything.

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You name it, I've been attacked with it.

178
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And martial arts has helped me.

179
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So I've been fit and things like that.

180
00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:29,520
So it's been a good thing, really.

181
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I want to explore that in a little bit, the law enforcement side and the bouncing side.

182
00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:42,520
But going back to your journey into martial arts, I found initially WTF Taekwondo, then ITF, which I did for a while,

183
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won trophies, national and local regional championships.

184
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And then I went into boxing with my tippy-tappy Taekwondo and got murdered.

185
00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:55,520
Then I did Muay Thai and got murdered.

186
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So I had a lot of point fighting, which again, I didn't think I was tough, to be honest.

187
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I knew the limitations of it.

188
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But you were given all these medals for one area, and then you realised how many weaknesses that particular art has when it comes to real combat.

189
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So you found yourself in kit boxing, though.

190
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You were far further ahead of the curve at the entrance than I was.

191
00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:23,520
So walk me through being an absolute novice in kit boxing, and then what was that evolution for you?

192
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I tell you what, I used to train with a guy called Peter Heath, a colour gentleman.

193
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He was a bit like Chris Eubank, really, a bit like Articula in that sense.

194
00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:38,520
And to be fair, he absolutely tortured us.

195
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When I think about it, he used to torture us.

196
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I'm talking like four years old at the time.

197
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He'd make us run two miles with a sauna suit on, and then he'd take us back.

198
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And he'd make you do like 300 press ups. Obviously, you couldn't do them physically.

199
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He'd make you do them like in sets of 10 and 5.

200
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Then he'd have us stretching, and then he'd absolutely murder us, sparring us.

201
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Like, absolutely beat us up.

202
00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:06,520
I can remember going on with bushings and cut eyes and stuff like that.

203
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He battered us, but I don't know why. I just kept going back and persisting.

204
00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:18,520
And then one day when I think I've dabbled in a bit of Thai boxing, then I went back years, like six months after I've done Thai boxing.

205
00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:22,520
And I can remember sparring with him. I turned into a man when I was a kid.

206
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And I can remember just putting him down with a body shot.

207
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And after that, then it made me realize that...

208
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I didn't mean to put him down with a body shot, but I put him down with a body shot.

209
00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:37,520
And that's what made me realize then I thought I'm going to start doing Thai boxing.

210
00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:39,520
And I moved on to that then.

211
00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:43,520
Then I had some really good trainers. I had a lad called Martin Hayton.

212
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He won me first Thai boxing trainer.

213
00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:48,520
Steve Adams and Glenn Thompson.

214
00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:53,520
Steve died about 10 years ago. He was really fit.

215
00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:56,520
And they had a massive heart attack through being too fit.

216
00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:59,520
So they had a massive impact on my life.

217
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Because at the time as well, I was still a young kid.

218
00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:05,520
I didn't really believe in myself.

219
00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:10,520
I think we tied up from 18 to 25.

220
00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:13,520
And mentally, I wasn't there yet.

221
00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:16,520
I didn't believe in myself. I probably had all attributes.

222
00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:20,520
But I just didn't believe in my ability, if that makes sense.

223
00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:27,520
And it's not since now. Now I'm in my 40s, now I'm 45.

224
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:31,520
My mind's got stronger, but then your body starts to deteriorate.

225
00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:34,520
Don't it? So like...

226
00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:38,520
In a sense, I wish I had the body of what I did when I was 20.

227
00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:41,520
But my mindset now, I think I would have been unbeatable.

228
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,520
It's crazy, but I'm glad it happened that way.

229
00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:47,520
Because it humbles you, doesn't it?

230
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:52,520
I'm getting to age now where I have to start passing down a sword to someone else.

231
00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:56,520
Because I'm still training with young guys and stuff like that.

232
00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:59,520
To be fair, I do feel at my peak now.

233
00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:03,520
I feel at my peak because I still compete and stuff like that.

234
00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:05,520
So I'm still at a decent level with competing.

235
00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:07,520
So I don't feel like I've lost it there.

236
00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:15,520
But they've definitely shaped me, them people, with tide option and keep watching and stuff like that.

237
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:19,520
What point did you start accepting that you were good?

238
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:27,520
Because there's something that a lot of people, including myself, suffer from in the fire service and special forces and all that, which is the imposter syndrome.

239
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:32,520
You are actually performing at a pretty high level, but you still in your mind are like, yeah, you're not good enough.

240
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:33,520
Everyone else is better than you.

241
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:45,520
When did you kind of crest that where you had enough titles or maybe you beat certain people that you revered before, where you really accepted, okay, I'm actually a pretty solid elite fighter now?

242
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:50,520
I think with tide option, or when I fought, there was a guy called Gary McAllister years ago.

243
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:56,520
I used to look up to him and beat a few of my old coaches and training partners.

244
00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:00,520
I think he had about 100 tide fights.

245
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:08,520
I remember one day, I was meant to be fighting a European guy at Bellis Rome in Manchester.

246
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:12,520
And they got me a guy that said, oh, you've had a change of opponent.

247
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:21,520
I turned up, I remember, this is after the festival, I turned up, I was eating McDonald's and Gary McAllister walked in and Steve Adams, the trainer, said to me, he says, that's who you're fighting.

248
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:23,520
He liked me. I looked up to this Gary McAllister.

249
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:31,520
And there was me there as a kid, child mentality, I was eating chicken nuggets and chips. It was not the best thing to have before a tide option fight.

250
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:33,520
And this is all you're fighting for, a British title.

251
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:37,520
And I can remember, I got in with him and I was that scared.

252
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:43,520
I was like on survival mode. And I can remember, first round, I came out and he didn't touch me.

253
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:48,520
Every time he came in there, I was front kicking him, keeping him off, kicking him to bits.

254
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:52,520
Second round went on, third round went on. It was a five round fight.

255
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:56,520
And I can always remember the trainer saying to me, Ian, you've got this, you won't match.

256
00:23:56,520 --> 00:24:03,520
And I can always remember Gary McAllister, I used to look up to him as my hero when he came up to me and kissed me up hard and he says, you've got two more rounds of this.

257
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:09,520
And after that, I thought, you know, what an absolute dickhead you are.

258
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:13,520
And it made me realise that sometimes your heroes are not actually great people.

259
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:16,520
But yeah, it went distance anyway.

260
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:22,520
And it was like, I scored like, I thought I'd won four rounds and he won the last round.

261
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:25,520
He like old manned me, he like turned it on the last round.

262
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:27,520
But everyone over there in the attendance said, oh, you won.

263
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:33,520
And I think after that, that sort of like made me realise what sort of level I was at with Thai boxing.

264
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:38,520
And it was like a defining point in my life where I thought, hang on, I can hang with some of the best guys in Prussia and Europe.

265
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:40,520
And that was it really.

266
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:47,520
And then it happened later on again in life in the 40s when I wrestled Josh Barnett with Catch Wrestling.

267
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:49,520
I wrestled him, obviously.

268
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,520
Obviously, I've always liked Josh Barnett and things like that.

269
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:56,520
And then one day I found out he was coming to Snape to compete.

270
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:57,520
And no one wanted to compete against him.

271
00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:00,520
And I said to my coach, he says, I'll compete against him.

272
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:02,520
He goes, he's 50 pound heavier than you.

273
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:06,520
I said, I'll be all right. I just wanted to compete against him because we were good.

274
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:10,520
And when I got him in and wrestled him, it was a great match.

275
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:12,520
It was like just...

276
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:17,520
Even if it was a loss, to be fair, we were just standing up fighting for that position and stuff like that.

277
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:22,520
And I think last minute I went for a check down and he went for a check down on me.

278
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:23,520
But it was a draw.

279
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:30,520
And I thought to go distance with like former UFC Heavyweight Champion at World and youngest Heavyweight Champion at World,

280
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,520
I thought I must have something to think about me with wrestling.

281
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:40,520
And that made me realize, so like I think they were two defining moments in my life where I thought,

282
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,520
like I am actually quite good at this, you know what I mean?

283
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:45,520
Yeah, I've watched that fight actually.

284
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:47,520
And it was a classic example of stalemate.

285
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,520
Like you just were nullifying each other.

286
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:56,520
Yeah, they were boring, but like just I would stop it just to get us all in really.

287
00:25:56,520 --> 00:26:01,520
The fact he texted me, I think it was last year, asked me if he wanted me to wrestle him again.

288
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:04,520
I wanted to, but I just not trained for it.

289
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,520
I burnt out mentally, I think, because I had a few comps.

290
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:11,520
But like I said, probably wrestle him again, probably next year.

291
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:15,520
I don't know if he's going to compete against me, because I haven't competed for a while.

292
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,520
But I'd like to compete against him, especially now I've put some weight on,

293
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:23,520
because I think then I were like 89kg, I'm about 102 now.

294
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:27,520
So I think I'd do a bit better if you don't like weight because I'm heavier.

295
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:28,520
Absolutely.

296
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:32,520
What about on the Muay Thai side, when I think about that sport,

297
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:36,520
obviously some of the Thai fighters are the most revered.

298
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:38,520
What was some of, if it was Thai fighters or anyone,

299
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:42,520
what were some of the toughest matches you had in that sport specifically?

300
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:49,520
Probably again, it was more like when I look back, the fights were as they were.

301
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:53,520
It was more my head, my demons in my head.

302
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:54,520
I'm trying to think.

303
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:59,520
I remember I went to, I did world championships and I think I was 23 years old.

304
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:04,520
So I went to Thailand and I represented Great Britain.

305
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:08,520
And I fought a court guy and I remember emotions got to me.

306
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:13,520
I think he was a Caribbean lad and I remember he hit me with his punch.

307
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:18,520
The first eight counters I've ever had in my life, I remember it rattled my head.

308
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:22,520
And I remember third round or second round I came out really aggressive.

309
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:24,520
I lost control of myself.

310
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:27,520
I went a bit crazy and started biting his face in the middle of the fight.

311
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:31,520
So I think that helped.

312
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,520
I thought it was an absolute nutter, but it was more the emotions that got to me.

313
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:37,520
I wasn't like a bad person as in biting.

314
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:41,520
But then I lost and I remember being depressed.

315
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,520
And it was the first time I had ever experienced depression.

316
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:46,520
And I got a flight home.

317
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:48,520
I went to be there another three weeks.

318
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:53,520
I got a flight and went home because all that disgusted me, how I lost.

319
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,520
I only lost some points, but I lost.

320
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,520
I went home and I went to the boxing gym and I carried on training.

321
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,520
I think I had a couple of amateur boxing fights afterwards.

322
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:08,520
Because I know I could get a couple of amateur boxing fights in that time.

323
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:10,520
And then I rebuilt myself.

324
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:13,520
I fought again in European championships.

325
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:18,520
I think that was a year after I went to Portugal.

326
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,520
And I thought I've got to at least medal.

327
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:23,520
And I got it into my head.

328
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:26,520
I started believing in law of attraction then.

329
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:30,520
And I remember what happened then.

330
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:33,520
I think I fought a Swedish guy, Geetan.

331
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:35,520
And the next thing I got a bye.

332
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:38,520
And then I fought this big German guy.

333
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:41,520
And I got to bronze medal position.

334
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,520
I remember the first round this big German guy was beating me up.

335
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,520
And I thought if he hits me like that again he's going to knock me out.

336
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:51,520
The second round came out and I kept thinking if he hits me like that he's going to knock me out.

337
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,520
And then I looked at him and said in the third round I thought he's hit me with everything he's got.

338
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:56,520
And he hadn't put me out.

339
00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:58,520
So I went at him in the third round.

340
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:00,520
And it was too late.

341
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,520
I just nicked the third round.

342
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,520
I reckon if I had fought like that at the beginning I would have won the match.

343
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,520
But then I'd have been fighting for gold and silver.

344
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:11,520
I'm glad I didn't win to be fair.

345
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:14,520
There was a Russian guy at the other end that black hit.

346
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,520
And I could have fought him with a baseball bat and hit him with a beatbeater.

347
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:19,520
They're another level like them.

348
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:21,520
The Russians are another level.

349
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,520
To be fair he probably had 100 fights him.

350
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,520
They're just different breed aren't they, the Russians?

351
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,520
Especially at 24 years old.

352
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:34,520
I think if I'd gone in with a stick he'd have took it off me and beat me up.

353
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:38,520
So that changed my views a bit.

354
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:40,520
I felt like a bronze medalist in the European.

355
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:44,520
So that made me realise how capable I was of doing good things.

356
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,520
I fought for another British title after that.

357
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:51,520
I won that and then I lost a love for tie boxing.

358
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:54,520
And got into MMA world then.

359
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:59,520
That was my next phase of the journey I suppose.

360
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,520
So I fought another guy called...

361
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:04,520
I think he was my friend actually.

362
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:08,520
So this was another mentally testing thing for me as well.

363
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:13,520
I fought a guy called Mike Lancaster who was 6 foot 7 and 12 stone.

364
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,520
So perfect build for tie boxing.

365
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:18,520
Built like a peperami.

366
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:23,520
And basically he was my friend.

367
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:27,520
I'd been to European championships and things like that.

368
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,520
So that was another obstacle I had to overcome.

369
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:34,520
I had to fight my team mate.

370
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:38,520
So that was a bit of a strange one for me.

371
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:44,520
So I ended up fighting him on a local show in this village for a British title.

372
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:46,520
And all I could think...

373
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:50,520
I had to get my head around fighting a friend really.

374
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:51,520
So I had to like...

375
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:55,520
This is when I sort of learned how to switch things off.

376
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:59,520
Before I used to look at people as friends and stuff like that.

377
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,520
Now I look at people when I compete against them as objects.

378
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:03,520
I don't look at them as a person.

379
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:05,520
I just look at them as a shape.

380
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,520
Obviously they were like a large shape, like skinny shape.

381
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:12,520
So I just came out I think for a third round for a British title.

382
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:16,520
And because he was taller and skinnier I kept kicking him on arms.

383
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:21,520
And I broke his wrist in the third round I think for a British title against him.

384
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,520
So that was another defining moment for me.

385
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:28,520
Because that's like getting my head around fighting people I know.

386
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:30,520
It's a weird one I think.

387
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:35,520
If you like someone it's hard to get angry towards them isn't it?

388
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:46,520
So like I said then that's when I discovered how to overcome things and look at people differently as an object in a sporting environment.

389
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:48,520
So now that's what I do.

390
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:52,520
Whenever I look at someone, if they're tall and skinny I think they're just an object.

391
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:54,520
If they're short and fat I think they're an object.

392
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:58,520
And I look at them differently from a grappling or a striking perspective.

393
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:02,520
If they're tall and gangly I think I look at the areas where they're dangerous.

394
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:07,520
So obviously we're dangerous with long range punching and short range elbowing.

395
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,520
So I thought I was going to kick his weapons and break his weapons.

396
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,520
And it worked for me.

397
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:22,520
So now if they're fat, something like that, and I think they're unfit, I'll try and wear them out by moving about with fitness and drag them into deep waters that way.

398
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:29,520
So now as I look at them as objects it works better for me.

399
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:30,520
That's interesting.

400
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:38,520
Again this was point fighting but I remember fighting one of my friends in one of the regional tournaments and I was all smiley happy and he murdered me.

401
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:40,520
He destroyed me.

402
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:50,520
And so the next time it was having to switch it, like you said I didn't see him as objects but yeah just having to turn that switch from whoever you might have known them, you might have even revered them, which I had as well.

403
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:52,520
One of the club champions.

404
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:55,520
But at that point it's just you and that other person on the mat.

405
00:32:55,520 --> 00:33:01,520
But it's interesting the way you look at them as objects because that's what the military does with some of their gun training.

406
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:05,520
They use silhouettes rather than actual people on the targets.

407
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:07,520
Yeah it makes sense.

408
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,520
I suppose I've learnt it the hard way.

409
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:11,520
You know what I mean?

410
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:14,520
You learn stuff the hard way don't you?

411
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:16,520
You learn the psychology.

412
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:20,520
I won't change it, I would not change the way I've learnt.

413
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:25,520
I've made loads of mistakes over the years and I've learnt the hard way.

414
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,520
Psychology, how I used to lure people in.

415
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:31,520
I learnt through watching boxing as a kid.

416
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,520
You get Roberto, Geran and Marvin Hagler.

417
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,520
They were like horrible guys really.

418
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:39,520
You know what they were getting with them too.

419
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:40,520
They wanted to maim you.

420
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,520
Mike Tyson and other wanted to murder you didn't they?

421
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:44,520
And people like that.

422
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:50,520
And then I used to look at like Sugar Ray Leonard and I used to think, how is he so good?

423
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:54,520
And like stay composed and how he carried himself.

424
00:33:54,520 --> 00:34:00,520
He was almost like a nice guy, he used to carry himself well, wear suits and stuff like that.

425
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:04,520
But then when I look back at him, I look back at him now and I think he was evil.

426
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:06,520
He was a different type of evil in me.

427
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:11,520
He was like, he almost lured people in like a wolf in sheep's clothing.

428
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:17,520
Because I remember he fought Marvin Hagler and Marvin Hagler, he invited Marvin Hagler out for a meal with his wife.

429
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,520
And he says, we've come for a meal with my wife.

430
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:24,520
And Marvin Hagler says, I'm about to retire from boxing.

431
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:31,520
And a couple of months later then, Sugar Ray Leonard called him out because he knew he'd like mentally got him.

432
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:33,520
Because he knew he was ready for packing in.

433
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:34,520
And he got in with him didn't he?

434
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:35,520
And he did the same with Geran.

435
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:37,520
He like lured him in and out boxed him.

436
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:40,520
And I almost, it sounds horrible this.

437
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:42,520
I almost look at him as a sick individual.

438
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:45,520
As in like, it's almost like a paedophile.

439
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:47,520
They lure people in, nice like the kids.

440
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:50,520
They lure them in to be the friend, to be friend.

441
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,520
And then they can be so mean and callous to that kid.

442
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:55,520
And that's the way I look at like fighters.

443
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:58,520
You have an evil like a character like Tyson.

444
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,520
Who you know what you get, he's just angry and aggressive and wants to kill you.

445
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:04,520
And you get them people who will like come across as nice and kind.

446
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:09,520
But really, they're the worst type of people because they can do it with a smile on their face.

447
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:13,520
Almost like a calm psychopath or a serial killer.

448
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:14,520
Or a politician.

449
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:16,520
Yeah, or a politician.

450
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:18,520
And that's what I look for in people now.

451
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:20,520
At least with angry people, you know what you're getting.

452
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:22,520
But then you get them people who are coming up to you.

453
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:23,520
A bit like friends backstabbing you.

454
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:26,520
You look at me and think, oh they're a nice person.

455
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:29,520
But deep down they've got an ulterior motive behind them.

456
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:31,520
So I always look for the nice people.

457
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:32,520
And I think why are they so good?

458
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:36,520
And then I realized that they're like serial killers.

459
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:37,520
That's interesting.

460
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:39,520
Yeah, psychological warfare.

461
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:41,520
Yeah, calm psychopath.

462
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:43,520
And that's how I'll try and compete now.

463
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:45,520
I try and be calm.

464
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:50,520
But at the same time, you've got to be able to sometimes dig deep into your...

465
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:52,520
Because everyone's got a dark side, haven't they?

466
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:55,520
You've got to be a bit mean and callous at times.

467
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,520
So you've got to lure people in and things like that.

468
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,520
And I think I've learned that from wrestling.

469
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:05,520
Because I've competed against a lot of my friends in wrestling.

470
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:13,520
And that's made me almost like I took that side of things away from it with wrestling.

471
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:15,520
I remember competing against a guy.

472
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:18,520
He was my teammate actually, a left-hand Wade.

473
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:22,520
And I used to always end up with him in finals.

474
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:24,520
I wrestled him in British finals.

475
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:28,520
And I wrestled him in Catch Wrestling World Championships.

476
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:30,520
But he was like...

477
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:35,520
You know when you need like Marmadale, you needed Joe Frazier?

478
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:37,520
I needed him to make me better.

479
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:40,520
But at the time, we did like each other.

480
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:42,520
But there was like an unwritten rule.

481
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:44,520
He wanted to beat me and I wanted to beat him.

482
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:46,520
And he was like quite nasty.

483
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:49,520
I remember wrestling him and he'd like, book me in the face.

484
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:51,520
We were doing all dirty tricks.

485
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:53,520
So I used to do them back to him.

486
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,520
But what I used to do, I used to always smile on my face and laugh at him.

487
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:58,520
So it got to him more mentally.

488
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,520
Because he'd be thinking, why is this nice kid doing this to me?

489
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:03,520
And I used to do it like that.

490
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:07,520
But obviously, at the time, I needed him and he needed me.

491
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:09,520
So to make each other better.

492
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:11,520
So I'm glad for that.

493
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:13,520
But I've learned a lot so much from competing.

494
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:16,520
It just makes you a better person.

495
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:20,520
Before we go to kind of the grappling side.

496
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:24,520
When I was living in California, I went and trained in Shootbox.

497
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:26,520
They had a gym there for a little bit.

498
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:29,520
And it was the closest thing I'll ever get to Fight Club.

499
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:31,520
It doesn't matter what size you were.

500
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:33,520
It was full contact all the time.

501
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:38,520
I'd leave there with concussions and perforated eardrums and broken noses.

502
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:40,520
I learned that I wasn't the world's biggest pussy.

503
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:43,520
But I wouldn't say I learned a lot of technique, to be honest.

504
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:50,520
And now as we progress through and we talk more about concussion and TBI and CTE,

505
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:55,520
especially in the combat sports, I'm seeing more and more gyms be more efficient with their training.

506
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:59,520
Of course, you've got to have some hard training, but a lot less,

507
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:04,520
you know, really hard level striking in the sparring session, some of them.

508
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:10,520
What has been the evolution for you, if any, as far as that kind of less is more,

509
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:17,520
reducing the amount of head trauma in sparring and saving it for the ring or the cage?

510
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:22,520
Eh, you know, I used to spar hard all the time.

511
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:27,520
Not because I wanted to spar, but because, like, the type of people I was mixing with,

512
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:31,520
it was almost like a massive ego to try and knock each other out.

513
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:34,520
And I suppose that comes from boxing.

514
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:37,520
Because you go in a boxing gym, they're pretty ruthless, aren't they?

515
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:43,520
I can remember my old boxing coach, Fred Drummerson, he was like Mickey off Rocky.

516
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:48,520
And I can remember him throwing him in with, like, travellers, like gypsies.

517
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:51,520
And I can remember sparring with him.

518
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:56,520
We just... I didn't have any technique. All it was was just pretty strong.

519
00:38:56,520 --> 00:39:00,520
And I can remember, all I know, we're right cross left hook and we used to just bite down

520
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:04,520
on those gum shields and knock ten barrels of shit out of each other really.

521
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:07,520
I can remember going home with, like, headaches, thinking,

522
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:13,520
oh, it must be dehydration or it must be, like, I've had too much sugar or stuff like that.

523
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:16,520
And no-one knew about concussion then.

524
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:19,520
No-one knew about it. Like, you're a pussy if you've got dots,

525
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:22,520
or you're a pussy if you're an head guard.

526
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:24,520
So it was like one of them type of gyms.

527
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:28,520
And then even in, like, my 30s, because I still did boxing,

528
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:33,520
then I was still competing boxing, I can remember sparring and getting hit with hard head shots

529
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:37,520
and my face, I can remember my face just using my jaw and my head.

530
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:39,520
And at the time I didn't even know what concussion was.

531
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:45,520
So I got to, like, I think I was probably about 37, I watched the film.

532
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:50,520
On concussion it was Will Smith and it was called Concussion about American football players.

533
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:55,520
And I think it was probably, what, seven years ago.

534
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:59,520
I cracked up a bit mentally. Well, I thought I cracked up mentally.

535
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:02,520
It was, well, I didn't realise I had concussion.

536
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:08,520
And I was feeling really suicidal and really it sent me nuts, basically.

537
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:14,520
It's like, I like having, like, visions about beating my work friends up and stuff like that.

538
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:16,520
I wanted to beat management up, stuff like that.

539
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:18,520
And I was thinking, this is not like me.

540
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:21,520
And I didn't realise it was because I was sparring all the time.

541
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:25,520
I was, like, every day I was sparring because I had a PT in my shed.

542
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:28,520
I'd get, like, big lads come down and say, oh, can we spar?

543
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:32,520
And I'd spar. And I'd probably, you know, 15, 20 rounds a day, four times a week,

544
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:38,520
getting hit by these 16, 17 stone lads, not knowing I was getting concussion and stuff like that.

545
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:41,520
And it was towards the end. I was sparring with lighter lads and getting hit with jabs.

546
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:44,520
And I was seeing, like, flashes in my head.

547
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:48,520
And in the end, I ended up being off work because I like being like,

548
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:52,520
I'm not like a depressive person. I'll get depressed.

549
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:55,520
And I, like, really negative towards everyone.

550
00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:58,520
I just didn't want them to do well. I hated people.

551
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:01,520
I wanted to crack people. And it messed my head up.

552
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,520
And that was my thing with CT. And I think it was.

553
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:07,520
So now what I'll do, I try not to spar.

554
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:12,520
I like to spar, but I try not to spar as much.

555
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:16,520
I had all time now. So like now when I spar,

556
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:19,520
I spar more like trying not to get hit.

557
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:21,520
I get pissed off at the same if I get hit now.

558
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:24,520
Do you know why? Because you see it, don't you?

559
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:27,520
You see it now. There's loads of, like, gyms I've been in all the years.

560
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:31,520
There's loads of guys in boxing gyms, side boxing gyms, even grappling gyms,

561
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:35,520
where they leave, like, you know what I'm saying, like, leaving their careers in gym, don't they?

562
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:39,520
And they have loads of hard sparring in gym, and next thing we're talking,

563
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:43,520
funny and stuff like that. Is it Nam Pham? Can you remember him?

564
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:46,520
Yeah, I saw that video. So sad.

565
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:48,520
I watched the video of him and I just thought, wow,

566
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:51,520
there's such an articulate guy to talk, like, when they were talking,

567
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:56,520
and the next thing he's struggling to get messages out and words out.

568
00:41:56,520 --> 00:42:01,520
But I can always tell when I've sparred hard, because I can't get conversation going,

569
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:03,520
and things like that.

570
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:05,520
Oh, right. It's a big thing, I think.

571
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:10,520
So now I wear bigger gloves, not just for me, for my training partner,

572
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:16,520
so now I always wear 18-ounce boxing gloves if I'm boxing sparring and stuff like that.

573
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:20,520
And obviously, I see it, like, now I see it as a fast game of tiggy.

574
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:23,520
If I hit someone, I'll just touch them rather than that.

575
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:26,520
Obviously, there's times when you spar and someone hits you hard,

576
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:30,520
and you think, like, I'm going to hit them hard because it turns into ego then,

577
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:33,520
doesn't it? Ego sparring, I suppose.

578
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:37,520
I like to say I haven't got an ego, but I think when someone takes a piss

579
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:40,520
and they try and brain me and hit me hard, I'll hit them back hard

580
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:43,520
just to knock them down if they go through.

581
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:47,520
I've learnt hard ways, you know, like, I've learnt with head trauma and stuff like that.

582
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:49,520
It's not a good thing, is it?

583
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:52,520
No, and especially this is the thing, I mean, there's the acute element,

584
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:56,520
when I used to have the headaches and, you know, I got my jaw dislocated a few times

585
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:59,520
and all these things, so obviously, you know exactly what's going on there,

586
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:02,520
but it's that long-term one, and it's interesting,

587
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:07,520
and I'm glad that we talked about this because the TBI's and CTEs

588
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:09,520
are behind a lot of the suicides in the military,

589
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:12,520
and also in the breachers in the law enforcement too,

590
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:15,520
because the concussions they're getting from the explosions.

591
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:19,520
So understanding that in that community and also in your community,

592
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:23,520
in the combat sports, now hopefully these conversations will help

593
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:28,520
the next generations of young fighters so that we're a lot more diligent

594
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:32,520
in, you know, lighter sparring and saving those impacts for the ring

595
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:35,520
or maybe a couple of hard sessions before the ring.

596
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:40,520
Yeah, it's like, when I see it me now, it's like,

597
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:43,520
the reason a kid does sport is because it's fun, isn't it?

598
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:48,520
At times they enjoy it, and what we do after a bit,

599
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:52,520
like, I think when you get to professional level of fighting and things like that,

600
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:56,520
the fun, you lose the fun element, and it's like business,

601
00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:59,520
and everyone's, it's massive egos and things like that,

602
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:03,520
and everyone's trying to use sparring partners to hurt them.

603
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:06,520
Almost for the ego, isn't it now, with social media,

604
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:10,520
they're putting videos sparring, knocking the mate down,

605
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:14,520
and it's almost like the norm, and you think, it's dangerous, isn't it?

606
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:19,520
You know, like, now, I just try and teach for fun.

607
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:24,520
Plus as well, I think when you've got, like, when you're training with your ego

608
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:26,520
and things like that, you don't learn anything.

609
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:28,520
All you learn is, like, just to feed your ego.

610
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:32,520
Whereas if you learn with fun and make mistakes, you learn more about it.

611
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:36,520
So, like, sparring or grappling, I think you should be trained,

612
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:40,520
almost like with a childlike mentality, through fun,

613
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:42,520
because that's how you learn.

614
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:45,520
Whereas if it's serious, you're not going to learn,

615
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:48,520
because you make mistakes and you just get mad and stuff like that.

616
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:51,520
So I think you've got to almost train childlike, you know,

617
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:57,520
and that's another element I use now, like, I break things down into games.

618
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:02,520
So, like, I get lads sparring, I say, right, you can only, like, use your jab,

619
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:05,520
and other guy can only use his right cross.

620
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:09,520
So it makes you realise how important the jab is at controlling distance

621
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:13,520
and footwork and distance management and things like that.

622
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:17,520
And it makes you... And I'll say, right, you can only use, like, in a round,

623
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:19,520
you can only use, like, 20 right crosses.

624
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:22,520
So it makes you pick your shots a bit more as well,

625
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:26,520
and it makes you realise you've got to set your shot up

626
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:28,520
to land the right hand or the back hand, shall I say.

627
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:33,520
So, yeah, I always try and break it down into fun games now,

628
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:36,520
so that people are not getting as injured, you know, like...

629
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:39,520
Whereas if I'm sparring, I'm like, all right, you're boxing,

630
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:42,520
he's trying to take you down, or you're starting from this position,

631
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:46,520
he's trying to defend, so it learns them in, like, a fun way of programming it.

632
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:49,520
So they've been there before and they've spent more time with it and things like that.

633
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:53,520
Plus, less injured as in it, because it's more a controlled environment.

634
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:55,520
So I think you've got to do that.

635
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:58,520
Absolutely. Well, talk to me about MMA then.

636
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:02,520
When I finally went to, you know, get into the kind of Jiu-Jitsu side,

637
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:09,520
I realised again how much of the entire game was missing without doing grappling.

638
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:12,520
And for us in the UK, obviously, we don't grow up with wrestling

639
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:14,520
like a lot of the American schools do.

640
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:16,520
So what was that journey for you?

641
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:18,520
You're a great stand-up fighter by this point.

642
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:22,520
Talk to me about the introduction into grappling.

643
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:24,520
Basically, there was a guy called...

644
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:28,520
I used to... Well, my mum still lives on, like, a little street,

645
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:31,520
and there was a guy called Tony Cook who used to live next door,

646
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:32,520
but once with my mum.

647
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:34,520
And he still lives there now. He's a great guy.

648
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:36,520
He works for Dawes, and he works for 60.

649
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:38,520
I think he still works for Dawes now.

650
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:42,520
And he used to always talk about this guy called Andy Cooper,

651
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:45,520
and he did a sport. At the time, I didn't know what it was.

652
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:48,520
He says he used Bale Tudo, which obviously in Portuguese means

653
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:49,520
anything goes, doesn't it?

654
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:53,520
And Andy, well, obviously, had started going up out of town

655
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:55,520
and stuff like this by this time.

656
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:58,520
And Tony used to work at this bar called Sports Bar,

657
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:02,520
and he used to work with a tall skinny lanky guy called Andy Cooper.

658
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:05,520
And to look at him, he just looked like a skinny piece of...

659
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:10,520
a skinny Fred with big hands for knuckles, and almost like a pepper army.

660
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:14,520
And obviously, he was the first person I ever seen with cauliflower in his.

661
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:17,520
And then this one day, it was like an invite only.

662
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:19,520
Tony says, oh, why don't you come down and train?

663
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:21,520
And I'm like 21-year-old.

664
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:24,520
I know, I've been 23-year-old actually.

665
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:27,520
And he says, why don't you come down and train? It's Bale Tudo.

666
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:30,520
And I went down, and Andy was there.

667
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:33,520
And they were like, you're in an old sports hall.

668
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:36,520
And I remember getting in with Andy.

669
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:40,520
And it was the first time, I remember trying to box him.

670
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:43,520
And he kept throwing this over and right and hitting me on the chin.

671
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:45,520
I found it frustrating, he kept hitting me.

672
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:47,520
Every time, it's over and right and hitting me on the chin.

673
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:50,520
And the next thing, he took me down, got me back, strangled me.

674
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:53,520
And it was like, I thought, why is he skinny?

675
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:55,520
Because at the time, I was probably like...

676
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:59,520
probably about 13, 14 stone, so quite big for my size then.

677
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:03,520
And Andy was probably like 12 stone, went through.

678
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:06,520
And he kept strangling me, I was getting frustrated thinking,

679
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:09,520
how is this skinny kid doing this?

680
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:13,520
And then, honestly, he must have tapped me out 10, 15 times in a session.

681
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:18,520
And it made me realize that there were more for me to learn.

682
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:21,520
And that was like my defining moment then.

683
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:24,520
It made me go out and learn grappling.

684
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:27,520
And Andy was pretty similar to me really.

685
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:30,520
He was self-taught to me, thought that.

686
00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:33,520
He did boxing.

687
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:37,520
And then his granddad at the time, I think one of his relations,

688
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:40,520
I think it was his granddad, were a cat wrestler.

689
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:42,520
But Andy wasn't bothered about that.

690
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:46,520
We were just learning off VHS tapes.

691
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:50,520
And he used to tape us tapes and give us, and we were like, learn this grappling.

692
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:53,520
And then after a bit, then he got a cage made in this gym.

693
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:56,520
And it was like, kind of gated iron, honestly, it was ridiculous.

694
00:48:56,520 --> 00:49:00,520
I remember like, I can't remember getting my toes stuck in it,

695
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:03,520
it nearly ripped my toe off and my face was nearly getting ripped off.

696
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:05,520
And Andy just used to stay in it.

697
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:08,520
And it was like, because you were a doorman, all doorman used to come down.

698
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:10,520
And they used to just go in round for round.

699
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:12,520
And they were like, it was like Clint Eastwood.

700
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:14,520
What are you doing over in Leve?

701
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:17,520
And it just like, it just beats us all up.

702
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:19,520
And it went something like a conveyor belt, which got beat up.

703
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:23,520
And I think Andy were like, probably fighting like MMA

704
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:29,520
in early, like 90, I think he might have been 98, 99 with him.

705
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:33,520
And he just used to travel down on himself and fight.

706
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:37,520
I think it was, then it was a millennium brawl or something like that.

707
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:39,520
And then it got changed to cage rage and stuff like that.

708
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:43,520
And it was probably the first cage rage champion to come out with our area.

709
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:47,520
And, but it fought everyone, all like big names,

710
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:50,520
but no one knew what the sport was at the time.

711
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:53,520
It was like when it first came out in the UK,

712
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:58,520
it was like when Lee Remedios and Ian Freeman were fighting and stuff like that.

713
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:01,520
And Andy just used to go down and absolutely knock, he used to knock everyone out.

714
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:04,520
It was just a skinny streak of piss really.

715
00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:09,520
And he used to beat everyone, but he was the guy who got me into like MMA.

716
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:11,520
And then obviously I fell in love.

717
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:14,520
Because I would only train with him once, twice a week.

718
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:17,520
I needed to find some more grappling people.

719
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:21,520
So I went to Doncaster and I found a Gracie Barra gym.

720
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:25,520
And I started training there under like, there was a guy called Paul Murphy,

721
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:27,520
Neil White and Neil Owen.

722
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:31,520
And then I then pursued to train then with some other guys called,

723
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:35,520
my coaches actually, Darren Curry and Helen Curry,

724
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:37,520
who were like black belts at the time.

725
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:40,520
So they were teaching, so I like dropped in about,

726
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:43,520
learning Jiu Jitsu from different gyms then.

727
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:48,520
So that's when like I almost started my career then in MMA.

728
00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:53,520
And I had like, the first fight I fought, well there were para,

729
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:55,520
they called him the governor, Sandy Geddes.

730
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:58,520
He was a bit of a journeyman back in day, but he was like,

731
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:01,520
ranked number 18 country as a pro.

732
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:04,520
So I had no pro career as an MMA fighter.

733
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:06,520
And I got a lot of shit scared.

734
00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:09,520
I'd never seen him fighting a couple of weeks before.

735
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:12,520
And they were in an absolute bloodbath against this guy.

736
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:14,520
Andy says, oh, you're fighting him.

737
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:16,520
So I remember fighting him.

738
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:19,520
And I was shit scared honestly, because I didn't know what to expect.

739
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:23,520
I remember I just threw a low kick and hit him as hard as I could.

740
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:27,520
And it buckled his legs and he just ran at me, tried to take me down.

741
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:31,520
And I somehow managed to get his back suplexing and choke him.

742
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:34,520
And he tapped and I thought, god that was easy.

743
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:37,520
And I remember that was my first fight at MMA.

744
00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:40,520
I think I came away with about a grand and a half,

745
00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:42,520
I saw a lot of internet for beating him.

746
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:46,520
And then I thought it made sense then for that transition from Thai boxing to MMA,

747
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:49,520
because I like fighting for British titles,

748
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:53,520
getting 250 quid, getting elbowed in face at Thai boxing,

749
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:56,520
no internet exposure or anything like that.

750
00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:59,520
And I was getting like a grand and a half a fight,

751
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:01,520
for two minutes really, we're grappling.

752
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:04,520
And in a sense, you're probably taking less head trauma

753
00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:08,520
than you do Thai boxing, don't you, with MMA.

754
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:11,520
But then after that, it was just hard fights after that.

755
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:17,520
I seemed to be fighting former world champions and things like that.

756
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:20,520
And that really, so it was good.

757
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:22,520
Good experience from the S-Bowls.

758
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:27,520
What have you seen as far as the evolution of BJJ in the UK?

759
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:31,520
Because when I went to university in North London,

760
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:34,520
I remember a lifeguard at the same time at Hampstead Heath,

761
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:36,520
they had all the swimming ponds there,

762
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:39,520
and some of the guys are trained at London shoot fighters.

763
00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:41,520
So the UFC started, it was the VHS,

764
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:45,520
and then I kind of worked with some real MMA fighters.

765
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:47,520
I don't know what level they got to.

766
00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:51,520
But I mean, Jiu Jitsu was so in its infancy,

767
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:54,520
seemingly when it came to the UK at that time.

768
00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:58,520
So what have you seen as far as the evolution from the way you were training

769
00:52:58,520 --> 00:53:01,520
and the number of gyms to where we are now?

770
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:05,520
Right now, I think it's blown a massive round at Jiu Jitsu.

771
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:10,520
Yeah, I think it's brilliant what they've done,

772
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:14,520
but it almost like is, you know what I mean,

773
00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:18,520
now because it gives false sense of security in some ways.

774
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:22,520
Because you get a lot of geeks involved in Jiu Jitsu, don't you?

775
00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:25,520
You know, like nerds.

776
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:28,520
What I like, I love it because it's brilliant for confidence

777
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:30,520
and stuff like that for kids and stuff like that.

778
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:33,520
And I always say, as a martial artist,

779
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:35,520
I always say learn grappling arts first,

780
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:39,520
whether it be wrestling, Jiu Jitsu or Sambo, something like that.

781
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:41,520
I always say that.

782
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:43,520
But it's gone too sporty now.

783
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:47,520
You know, like it's very, like it's all flashy stuff, isn't it?

784
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:51,520
Like Della Riva, X-Guard and stuff like that.

785
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:54,520
And like as far as, like the chokes and that,

786
00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:57,520
I really like the streets and stuff like that and security and that.

787
00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:01,520
But I like the old school type Jiu Jitsu from back in the day,

788
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:04,520
where it's gone like, everyone's like pulling guard

789
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:07,520
and a group of flying triangles and stuff like that.

790
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:09,520
And to be fair, it's not realistic.

791
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:11,520
Is it? Somewhere it's not realistic.

792
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:14,520
I'm not saying it don't work because it does work,

793
00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:21,520
but I just think for self-defense purposes,

794
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:23,520
it depends what school you go to.

795
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:26,520
Some schools are very like MRA orientated

796
00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:30,520
and they teach it for like combat sports and real life.

797
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:32,520
And then others are very sports orientated

798
00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:37,520
and teach it for sports Jiu Jitsu, getting points and like pulling guard.

799
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:43,520
So I think I was lucky really because my coaches who taught me,

800
00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:45,520
they were very old school.

801
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:49,520
And obviously they taught you to learn the guard and stuff like that.

802
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:51,520
But they almost said to me,

803
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:53,520
listen, you don't want to be underneath.

804
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:54,520
You want to be in a street fight.

805
00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:57,520
You want to be on top hitting and you know like that.

806
00:54:57,520 --> 00:55:02,520
And it's same with wrestling. Wrestling's taught me you need to be on top.

807
00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:04,520
So yeah, I think it has.

808
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:06,520
It's blown up massively.

809
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:10,520
And I think it won't surprise me if it's going to be an Olympic sport eventually,

810
00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:14,520
because it's absolutely massive in a moment Jiu Jitsu.

811
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:18,520
Virtually in every town now we've got like Gracie Barra and things like that.

812
00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:20,520
So I think it's good,

813
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:26,520
but sometimes it can create a false sense of security,

814
00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:31,520
not by the coaches because martial arts is good for confidence and stuff like that.

815
00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:35,520
But it's making like most Jiu Jitsu gyms I've trained at,

816
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:37,520
they don't teach any throws.

817
00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:40,520
It's just starting off your back and stuff like that.

818
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:44,520
Which I get, it's meant for smaller people and things like that,

819
00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:46,520
for like women and stuff like that.

820
00:55:46,520 --> 00:55:48,520
It's a self-defense sport.

821
00:55:48,520 --> 00:55:52,520
But teaching a lot of like stuff like getting to leg locks and stuff like that,

822
00:55:52,520 --> 00:55:54,520
which do work.

823
00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:57,520
But when you get punched in the face when someone's on top of you,

824
00:55:57,520 --> 00:56:01,520
it's not particularly great for realism in a sense.

825
00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:05,520
Whereas I think something like Sambo's a bit more realer.

826
00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:08,520
I compare it to, like I said, Taekwondo.

827
00:56:08,520 --> 00:56:11,520
I was winning all kinds of trophies,

828
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:13,520
but if I'd walked out and got into a street fight,

829
00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:15,520
I probably would have got my ass handed to me.

830
00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:17,520
And there's an application though.

831
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:19,520
In fact, funny enough, I got into stunts and did that for years,

832
00:56:19,520 --> 00:56:23,520
and that type of martial arts looks great on film or on stage.

833
00:56:23,520 --> 00:56:25,520
Yeah, it looks brilliant.

834
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:27,520
But when it comes to the realism,

835
00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:30,520
where I train now is a sport-focused Jiu-Jitsu school.

836
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:33,520
But when I roll, I'm always thinking about that,

837
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:36,520
because I was a striker first way before I ever did anything else.

838
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:40,520
So I'm thinking about, okay, if I am underneath, how do I sweep?

839
00:56:40,520 --> 00:56:43,520
Now, if I was here, I could obviously use elbows or get them out

840
00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:45,520
and then strike or whatever it is.

841
00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:48,520
But there's a lot of focus on leg locks and that kind of thing.

842
00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:52,520
And again, there's a lot of people that arguably are not violent people,

843
00:56:52,520 --> 00:56:57,520
that under those rules, absolutely destroy me every single time.

844
00:56:57,520 --> 00:57:00,520
But I also am old enough and wise enough to understand

845
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:03,520
that if it was where you were allowed to actually be a violent person

846
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:07,520
with your limbs, it would change that dynamic a little bit.

847
00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:09,520
That's right.

848
00:57:09,520 --> 00:57:13,520
Yeah, and then not grappling as well, not starting from your feet,

849
00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:15,520
which we do, you can choose either or.

850
00:57:15,520 --> 00:57:17,520
But we're not very good at it, I'll say that.

851
00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:20,520
That's a big missing piece as well, because you've got striking

852
00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:22,520
and then you've got the floor.

853
00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:25,520
Well, there's this big piece in between where a good grappler

854
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:29,520
can make me hit the floor very, very hard and I won't be there anymore.

855
00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:34,520
Yeah, so I call it gray area, because it's like not many people teach it.

856
00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:37,520
It's like either boxing or straight to the floor.

857
00:57:37,520 --> 00:57:41,520
No one really teaches like the, I call it like the dirty aspect of it,

858
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:44,520
me like, and this is where I like it best.

859
00:57:44,520 --> 00:57:49,520
When I was younger, I used to jab and move and stuff like that.

860
00:57:49,520 --> 00:57:52,520
Now as an older, I don't move as good because I'm heavier.

861
00:57:52,520 --> 00:57:56,520
So I try and like use wrestling to drag people into deep water.

862
00:57:56,520 --> 00:58:01,520
So I use like, collar ties and under option, head control and things like that

863
00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:03,520
to make it a dirty fight.

864
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:06,520
So like, if I get a really good boxing guy coming down sparring with me,

865
00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:09,520
well, I tend to do it first round, because I know there's a better boxer than me.

866
00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:12,520
I'll lure him into like an upper body wrestling match,

867
00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:15,520
like grabbing on pulling his head down and hitting him and stuff like that.

868
00:58:15,520 --> 00:58:18,520
So then it takes him into a different energy system.

869
00:58:18,520 --> 00:58:21,520
So it's like using his anaerobic energy system,

870
00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:23,520
because most boxers are aerobic aren't they?

871
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:26,520
They do a lot of running, a lot of bag work and stuff like that.

872
00:58:26,520 --> 00:58:32,520
So I'll lure him into like, almost like a dirty fight, like make it rough.

873
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:36,520
And then what I do then, I set them around, I come out and box them.

874
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:41,520
Because I know I've got blood pumping in the arms and in the shoulders and stuff like that.

875
00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:44,520
So it's like almost like doing a weight session of like, train the arms,

876
00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:47,520
then the arms are slower then and that's when I box them.

877
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:50,520
So I like to use energy systems against people.

878
00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:53,520
Especially if they're pure boxers, that's what I like.

879
00:58:53,520 --> 00:58:56,520
Maybe it might take me two or three rounds to grind them down.

880
00:58:56,520 --> 00:59:01,520
And I'm on my chest like almost wrestling them and wearing them down with my head in the face and stuff like that.

881
00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:04,520
But it takes him into a different energy system.

882
00:59:04,520 --> 00:59:07,520
And I think that's what a lot of people don't train as well.

883
00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:15,520
Because like most people, they have a runner, the lift weights, or something like that, or an Olympic lifter.

884
00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:17,520
But I train all three aspects of it.

885
00:59:17,520 --> 00:59:23,520
So I like train like me and a robert. I train my aerobics and I train my creatine phosphate.

886
00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:26,520
So I try and be well rounded in every area.

887
00:59:26,520 --> 00:59:28,520
Same with fighting, I've done it with fighting.

888
00:59:28,520 --> 00:59:32,520
I learned that I want the best boxer, I want to learn what the best build for Tye Rocks,

889
00:59:32,520 --> 00:59:34,520
I want the best build for Ju-Jitsu.

890
00:59:34,520 --> 00:59:42,520
But if you learn a bit of every sport, it makes you a better person, a better fighter, or a better athlete.

891
00:59:42,520 --> 00:59:44,520
And I think that's what it's done for me.

892
00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:51,520
Each area, because I train in everything, it's made me understand martial arts better.

893
00:59:51,520 --> 00:59:53,520
What about the strength and conditioning side?

894
00:59:53,520 --> 00:59:58,520
I did obviously just the actual martial arts training and then I got into CrossFit for quite a long time.

895
00:59:58,520 --> 01:00:02,520
And now I've switched to one called Wolf Brigade, which is a lot more maces and kettlebells,

896
01:00:02,520 --> 01:00:05,520
which I found is really good, especially for grappling.

897
01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:13,520
Like if you had a Turkish get up, whatever it is, 70, 80 pounds, that's the same as stiff arming someone off side control, for example.

898
01:00:13,520 --> 01:00:19,520
So what kind of philosophies do you like when you're training for combat sports specifically?

899
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:22,520
Well, like I said, it depends as well.

900
01:00:22,520 --> 01:00:27,520
I've never had like, do you know when these people go to that training camp, 12 week camps and stuff like that,

901
01:00:27,520 --> 01:00:30,520
say, oh, I'm in a 12 week camp, I think it's a load of bullshit, know you that.

902
01:00:30,520 --> 01:00:36,520
I just like, it's like, yeah, you can peak and stuff like that, and I believe that.

903
01:00:36,520 --> 01:00:40,520
But I always train me for like, pure fighting.

904
01:00:40,520 --> 01:00:50,520
I just think like I'm lucky in the job that I do, I'm around it all, whether it be psychology, doors and strength and conditioning.

905
01:00:50,520 --> 01:01:02,520
So what I tend to do, mate, I try and like stay 75% fit all year round, not like super fit, but I know I'm fitter than average person.

906
01:01:02,520 --> 01:01:07,520
So like what I mean by that, I go to work on a Monday, I take spinning.

907
01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:12,520
So that's my smart way of running for like cardio.

908
01:01:12,520 --> 01:01:15,520
Then I at least do like four days a week weights.

909
01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:22,520
So before days a week weights, I used to do circuits a bit like CrossFit circuits and stuff like that.

910
01:01:22,520 --> 01:01:28,520
But what I found is when I was doing them all time, it will wrecking me, you know, like because of my age and stuff like that.

911
01:01:28,520 --> 01:01:36,520
So now I broke it down, wild or I like, I try and spar at least some sort of like striking.

912
01:01:36,520 --> 01:01:38,520
Three times a week.

913
01:01:38,520 --> 01:01:41,520
And I try and wrestle or grapple three times a week.

914
01:01:41,520 --> 01:01:46,520
So I get in that element and that's my most important element.

915
01:01:46,520 --> 01:01:53,520
And then like my weights, I'll go to work out, I'll go to work out like a 30 minute session.

916
01:01:53,520 --> 01:01:56,520
It might say, I probably train like a typical bodybuilder really.

917
01:01:56,520 --> 01:02:02,520
But what way I do it, I'll do like, say I do four exercises for my legs.

918
01:02:02,520 --> 01:02:09,520
I might do like a squat, which is like an Olympic lift in a sense, isn't it?

919
01:02:09,520 --> 01:02:11,520
Then I'll do something that's aesthetic.

920
01:02:11,520 --> 01:02:14,520
So like, might be something like fluffy, like a leg kill or a leg extension.

921
01:02:14,520 --> 01:02:20,520
And then I'll do something gymnastic, like a box jump, something plyometric.

922
01:02:20,520 --> 01:02:24,520
And it's same if I do my chest. If I do my chest, I might do two aesthetic exercises.

923
01:02:24,520 --> 01:02:33,520
Then I might do like plyometric press ups or something like that and something Olympic-y, like a power lift.

924
01:02:33,520 --> 01:02:36,520
And it's same with my shoulders. I might do clean and press.

925
01:02:36,520 --> 01:02:39,520
Or I might put like a kettlebell snatch in it or something like that.

926
01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:44,520
So I'll do like two lifts which are aesthetic, a gymnastic one and an Olympic one.

927
01:02:44,520 --> 01:02:48,520
So it's keeping me in all the energy systems.

928
01:02:48,520 --> 01:02:54,520
And then at the end, if I'm like feeling like, say if I'm doing this striking, because normally what I'll do,

929
01:02:54,520 --> 01:02:58,520
I plan it where I might do a weight session and then a PT might come in.

930
01:02:58,520 --> 01:03:02,520
And I might do some boxing sparring or some Thai boxing sparring or some MMA sparring.

931
01:03:02,520 --> 01:03:04,520
So that's my cardio.

932
01:03:04,520 --> 01:03:12,520
But if not, then I might do something like use skiers or skill meals or things like that, like cross-fitting.

933
01:03:12,520 --> 01:03:16,520
So I try and hit it all around everything.

934
01:03:16,520 --> 01:03:22,520
But then when I've got a competition coming up, what I don't last two weeks, I might have to run,

935
01:03:22,520 --> 01:03:24,520
I might have like three runs in.

936
01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:27,520
And what I'll do, I don't run all the time.

937
01:03:27,520 --> 01:03:30,520
I only run like four weeks prior to a match.

938
01:03:30,520 --> 01:03:36,520
So I might do a three-mile run, like the day where I try and sprint a mile and then do some sprints.

939
01:03:36,520 --> 01:03:38,520
And I put that in when we're training.

940
01:03:38,520 --> 01:03:43,520
So I'm lucky in that aspect. I try not to over train. I try and train smart as well.

941
01:03:43,520 --> 01:03:46,520
It does completely.

942
01:03:46,520 --> 01:03:49,520
What about the other side of that? Rest and recovery.

943
01:03:49,520 --> 01:03:55,520
Talk to me about any recovery tools that you use, the importance of sleep, some of those things.

944
01:03:55,520 --> 01:03:58,520
I don't sleep. This is a weird thing, right?

945
01:03:58,520 --> 01:04:04,520
Honestly, I bet I sleep two hours a week, two hours a night.

946
01:04:04,520 --> 01:04:09,520
I am the weirdest. I just don't sleep. I do not sleep. I don't know what's up with me.

947
01:04:09,520 --> 01:04:14,520
I don't know if it's because I'm over training, but it's almost like I don't need to sleep.

948
01:04:14,520 --> 01:04:20,520
And I've been like that for 10 years. I like probably, if I'm lucky, I might get two to three hours a night.

949
01:04:20,520 --> 01:04:24,520
It's weird. And I seem to be able to perform on that.

950
01:04:24,520 --> 01:04:29,520
I don't know whether I'm going to collapse and drop dead one day or what.

951
01:04:29,520 --> 01:04:34,520
But I've got worse when my dad died two years ago.

952
01:04:34,520 --> 01:04:39,520
And I think my sleep pattern is not even worse.

953
01:04:39,520 --> 01:04:44,520
But I seem to get by with zero sleep. It's weird.

954
01:04:44,520 --> 01:04:47,520
Did you sleep better when you were younger?

955
01:04:47,520 --> 01:04:49,520
Yeah, I slept really good when I was younger.

956
01:04:49,520 --> 01:04:52,520
But now I'm like, I tend to get in bed at 10.

957
01:04:52,520 --> 01:04:55,520
Honestly, this is, it does run a stroke, because I get in bed at 10.

958
01:04:55,520 --> 01:04:58,520
Between 10 and 11, I'll have a really good sleep.

959
01:04:58,520 --> 01:05:01,520
So I don't know whether that's my REM sleep, where I'm like sleeping really good.

960
01:05:01,520 --> 01:05:08,520
And then I'll guarantee that I'm awake from 10 till about four in the morning.

961
01:05:08,520 --> 01:05:11,520
And then I get up at seven for work or six for work.

962
01:05:11,520 --> 01:05:14,520
It's crazy. And I seem to be able to cope on that.

963
01:05:14,520 --> 01:05:18,520
And I never have naps in there or anything.

964
01:05:18,520 --> 01:05:21,520
But then that's another thing. I'll wake up at night as well.

965
01:05:21,520 --> 01:05:25,520
And I can eat healthy all day. And I'll guarantee I'll get up at night and I'll eat.

966
01:05:25,520 --> 01:05:28,520
I could eat a liter of ice cream and about 10 chocolate bars.

967
01:05:28,520 --> 01:05:31,520
Honestly, I'm shocking my recovery.

968
01:05:31,520 --> 01:05:36,520
But it's weird. I almost feel like I'm a bit of a freak in a sense.

969
01:05:36,520 --> 01:05:39,520
Because I still compete at an eye level.

970
01:05:39,520 --> 01:05:42,520
Like I said, I competed over a month.

971
01:05:42,520 --> 01:05:45,520
And I won British against really high level guys.

972
01:05:45,520 --> 01:05:49,520
On a zero hour sleep. And I eat shit.

973
01:05:49,520 --> 01:05:52,520
And I just seem to, I don't know if it's a mindset thing or what.

974
01:05:52,520 --> 01:05:55,520
Or I just seem to be able to get by.

975
01:05:55,520 --> 01:05:58,520
I'll probably catch up with you one day.

976
01:05:58,520 --> 01:06:01,520
But like I said, I'm 45 now and I'm still competing at an eye level.

977
01:06:01,520 --> 01:06:08,520
But then when you listen to podcasts on Gordon Ryan and people like that.

978
01:06:08,520 --> 01:06:11,520
They were always eating Five Guys and everything.

979
01:06:11,520 --> 01:06:14,520
And GSP were eating McDonald's and Burger King and stuff like that.

980
01:06:14,520 --> 01:06:19,520
Were no competing. So I'm not a real believer in...

981
01:06:19,520 --> 01:06:25,520
You are what you eat because it does knock you up on insides.

982
01:06:25,520 --> 01:06:28,520
But what I'm saying is, I think if you train at an eye level.

983
01:06:28,520 --> 01:06:31,520
It doesn't really matter what sort of calories you put in.

984
01:06:31,520 --> 01:06:33,520
Because you're going to burn them off.

985
01:06:33,520 --> 01:06:37,520
And I can perform better on a chip butter than I can on salad and rice.

986
01:06:37,520 --> 01:06:39,520
If that makes sense.

987
01:06:39,520 --> 01:06:43,520
So I don't know whether I'm a freak for doing it or whether it's a mental thing in my head.

988
01:06:43,520 --> 01:06:47,520
But I can seem to perform really good on shit food.

989
01:06:47,520 --> 01:06:50,520
I'm not saying I eat shit food all the time.

990
01:06:50,520 --> 01:06:54,520
But I like to have been for a Sunday dinner which is not bad.

991
01:06:54,520 --> 01:06:57,520
But I can perform on anything really.

992
01:06:57,520 --> 01:06:59,520
I zero hours sleep.

993
01:06:59,520 --> 01:07:01,520
The sleep medicine world.

994
01:07:01,520 --> 01:07:04,520
And I talk about this all the time because our firefighters are sleep deprived.

995
01:07:04,520 --> 01:07:06,520
For decades literally.

996
01:07:06,520 --> 01:07:07,520
And it is very detrimental.

997
01:07:07,520 --> 01:07:09,520
But there is an anomaly.

998
01:07:09,520 --> 01:07:14,520
There's a point whatever percent of the population that can do well on less sleep.

999
01:07:14,520 --> 01:07:16,520
And again genetically they're not sure why.

1000
01:07:16,520 --> 01:07:19,520
But I also wonder if you used to sleep well.

1001
01:07:19,520 --> 01:07:23,520
If maybe even some of the head trauma has affected your brain chemistry.

1002
01:07:23,520 --> 01:07:25,520
Probably has.

1003
01:07:25,520 --> 01:07:30,520
But I do like ice baths and things like that.

1004
01:07:30,520 --> 01:07:31,520
I have a lot of ice baths.

1005
01:07:31,520 --> 01:07:33,520
And I'm always in sauna as well.

1006
01:07:33,520 --> 01:07:34,520
At least twice a week.

1007
01:07:34,520 --> 01:07:37,520
So I think I'm getting like my body.

1008
01:07:37,520 --> 01:07:39,520
Like even my body.

1009
01:07:39,520 --> 01:07:42,520
Like all my mates who train.

1010
01:07:42,520 --> 01:07:44,520
Who carried on with me from the beginning.

1011
01:07:44,520 --> 01:07:48,520
Like when they started early on in their careers.

1012
01:07:48,520 --> 01:07:51,520
But they've all had operations and the bodies are dropping to bits.

1013
01:07:51,520 --> 01:07:53,520
And a lot of them.

1014
01:07:53,520 --> 01:07:56,520
Odd ones still come to me probably my age.

1015
01:07:56,520 --> 01:07:58,520
But it's almost like.

1016
01:07:58,520 --> 01:08:00,520
I feel like Peter Pan.

1017
01:08:00,520 --> 01:08:03,520
Because it was almost like when I was younger.

1018
01:08:03,520 --> 01:08:05,520
I would always be angry with puberty and stuff like that.

1019
01:08:05,520 --> 01:08:08,520
Like all my mates were going out drinking and stuff like that.

1020
01:08:08,520 --> 01:08:10,520
When I was 15.

1021
01:08:10,520 --> 01:08:13,520
I think because I looked after myself from a young age.

1022
01:08:13,520 --> 01:08:15,520
And like.

1023
01:08:15,520 --> 01:08:17,520
I've always trained from as long as I've known.

1024
01:08:17,520 --> 01:08:19,520
Even though like.

1025
01:08:19,520 --> 01:08:21,520
From like 12 year old I've been doing weights.

1026
01:08:21,520 --> 01:08:23,520
And I think that's been a big part of it.

1027
01:08:23,520 --> 01:08:25,520
And so the Pilates as well.

1028
01:08:25,520 --> 01:08:26,520
I teach that.

1029
01:08:26,520 --> 01:08:28,520
So I think that.

1030
01:08:28,520 --> 01:08:31,520
I think Pilates on its own has been like a godsend for me.

1031
01:08:31,520 --> 01:08:35,520
Because I can like.

1032
01:08:35,520 --> 01:08:36,520
I ache and things like that.

1033
01:08:36,520 --> 01:08:40,520
But I can just train at an high level.

1034
01:08:40,520 --> 01:08:41,520
It's weird all the time.

1035
01:08:41,520 --> 01:08:43,520
And to be fair.

1036
01:08:43,520 --> 01:08:44,520
You know like.

1037
01:08:44,520 --> 01:08:45,520
You get these people like.

1038
01:08:45,520 --> 01:08:46,520
It's weird.

1039
01:08:46,520 --> 01:08:48,520
You get these people and they have to have like a 10 minute wall.

1040
01:08:48,520 --> 01:08:50,520
And stuff like that before they get on mats.

1041
01:08:50,520 --> 01:08:52,520
I'm not that person me.

1042
01:08:52,520 --> 01:08:53,520
I just think.

1043
01:08:53,520 --> 01:08:54,520
You never see a big cat.

1044
01:08:54,520 --> 01:08:57,520
Stretching off before it goes to kill a gazelle do you.

1045
01:08:57,520 --> 01:08:58,520
So I think my body.

1046
01:08:58,520 --> 01:08:59,520
As daft as it sounds.

1047
01:08:59,520 --> 01:09:01,520
I think my body is that conditioned.

1048
01:09:01,520 --> 01:09:04,520
Because we're all training and like wrestling boxing.

1049
01:09:04,520 --> 01:09:06,520
And plies and stuff like that.

1050
01:09:06,520 --> 01:09:07,520
Is that conditioned.

1051
01:09:07,520 --> 01:09:09,520
I can just like step up mat.

1052
01:09:09,520 --> 01:09:12,520
Don't get me wrong my lungs feel like they're going to collapse.

1053
01:09:12,520 --> 01:09:14,520
But my body feels fine.

1054
01:09:14,520 --> 01:09:15,520
As if I can like.

1055
01:09:15,520 --> 01:09:18,520
Just go 100 mile an hour straight from off.

1056
01:09:18,520 --> 01:09:19,520
And that's what I.

1057
01:09:19,520 --> 01:09:21,520
That's almost what I want really.

1058
01:09:21,520 --> 01:09:23,520
Because it's like a fight isn't it.

1059
01:09:23,520 --> 01:09:27,520
If I'm on doors or I get attacked out on the street.

1060
01:09:27,520 --> 01:09:30,520
I want to be able to grow from get go straight away.

1061
01:09:30,520 --> 01:09:32,520
Be able to perform straight away.

1062
01:09:32,520 --> 01:09:35,520
So it's probably the type of training what I've been doing for years.

1063
01:09:35,520 --> 01:09:37,520
Has like programmed me to that.

1064
01:09:37,520 --> 01:09:39,520
And it's almost like.

1065
01:09:39,520 --> 01:09:41,520
Like a sleep and stuff like that.

1066
01:09:41,520 --> 01:09:43,520
It's almost like I'm living like.

1067
01:09:43,520 --> 01:09:45,520
What is it now.

1068
01:09:45,520 --> 01:09:49,520
It's almost like I'm living in fights or flights all the time.

1069
01:09:49,520 --> 01:09:51,520
Like a caveman.

1070
01:09:51,520 --> 01:09:55,520
I don't really sleep.

1071
01:09:55,520 --> 01:09:57,520
I'm always training and stuff like that.

1072
01:09:57,520 --> 01:10:00,520
I feel like that's what I always do.

1073
01:10:00,520 --> 01:10:03,520
Like an home together all the time.

1074
01:10:03,520 --> 01:10:05,520
Like I always want to grow.

1075
01:10:05,520 --> 01:10:07,520
Everything's hectic and stuff like that.

1076
01:10:07,520 --> 01:10:09,520
But I like that stress.

1077
01:10:09,520 --> 01:10:11,520
Do you know what I like to be able to.

1078
01:10:11,520 --> 01:10:13,520
And it's almost like I seek out stress.

1079
01:10:13,520 --> 01:10:15,520
If that makes sense.

1080
01:10:15,520 --> 01:10:17,520
I'm not like one of these who like.

1081
01:10:17,520 --> 01:10:19,520
Wants to go out and cause trouble and that.

1082
01:10:19,520 --> 01:10:22,520
But that's what I train for for violence.

1083
01:10:22,520 --> 01:10:25,520
It's like my martial arts is like.

1084
01:10:25,520 --> 01:10:27,520
I'm not a trouble cause.

1085
01:10:27,520 --> 01:10:29,520
I want to be fit and strong.

1086
01:10:29,520 --> 01:10:31,520
Be able to do that.

1087
01:10:31,520 --> 01:10:33,520
And like even my life is pretty hectic all the time.

1088
01:10:33,520 --> 01:10:35,520
I'll go to work like tomorrow.

1089
01:10:35,520 --> 01:10:37,520
I'll go to work at 16th morning.

1090
01:10:37,520 --> 01:10:39,520
I'll probably do three classes at work.

1091
01:10:39,520 --> 01:10:41,520
I'll come home then at four.

1092
01:10:41,520 --> 01:10:43,520
And I'll probably do my weights at work.

1093
01:10:43,520 --> 01:10:45,520
And then I'll do another two sessions.

1094
01:10:45,520 --> 01:10:47,520
Another two PT sessions when I get home.

1095
01:10:47,520 --> 01:10:49,520
And I'll probably be sparring or wrestling.

1096
01:10:49,520 --> 01:10:51,520
So I'm like.

1097
01:10:51,520 --> 01:10:53,520
I'm always doing something.

1098
01:10:53,520 --> 01:10:55,520
I'm like very active and I'll go all the time.

1099
01:10:55,520 --> 01:10:57,520
And that's probably why I don't sleep.

1100
01:10:57,520 --> 01:10:59,520
I can't switch off.

1101
01:10:59,520 --> 01:11:01,520
I mean definitely the consistency of your training.

1102
01:11:01,520 --> 01:11:03,520
I'm 50 now and I just did a firefighter.

1103
01:11:03,520 --> 01:11:05,520
Like fundraising competition.

1104
01:11:05,520 --> 01:11:07,520
It was almost like a crossfit type one.

1105
01:11:07,520 --> 01:11:09,520
But there was firefighter movements too.

1106
01:11:09,520 --> 01:11:11,520
And again I'm not going to win any world championships.

1107
01:11:11,520 --> 01:11:13,520
But like you said at 50.

1108
01:11:13,520 --> 01:11:15,520
I was still competing against the young ones.

1109
01:11:15,520 --> 01:11:17,520
I don't put it.

1110
01:11:17,520 --> 01:11:19,520
I'm focused on sleep a lot now.

1111
01:11:19,520 --> 01:11:21,520
Cheers.

1112
01:11:21,520 --> 01:11:23,520
But I think it's the point is that if you.

1113
01:11:23,520 --> 01:11:25,520
If you never stop.

1114
01:11:25,520 --> 01:11:27,520
You've fostered this resilience.

1115
01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:29,520
And from the sleep point of view.

1116
01:11:29,520 --> 01:11:31,520
I'm still working on getting back.

1117
01:11:31,520 --> 01:11:33,520
But I do believe exactly what you said.

1118
01:11:33,520 --> 01:11:35,520
If you are constantly just.

1119
01:11:35,520 --> 01:11:37,520
Moving which is the body is supposed to do.

1120
01:11:37,520 --> 01:11:39,520
And if we weren't. If we were prehistoric.

1121
01:11:39,520 --> 01:11:41,520
People then we'd be out hunting every day.

1122
01:11:41,520 --> 01:11:43,520
And gathering and building houses.

1123
01:11:43,520 --> 01:11:45,520
And you know all the things.

1124
01:11:45,520 --> 01:11:47,520
And I think this is what's sad about.

1125
01:11:47,520 --> 01:11:49,520
Some elements of modern society.

1126
01:11:49,520 --> 01:11:51,520
Is this discouragement of doing too much work.

1127
01:11:51,520 --> 01:11:53,520
And rest and recovery is super super important.

1128
01:11:53,520 --> 01:11:55,520
But the body is capable of amazing things.

1129
01:11:55,520 --> 01:11:57,520
And it's probably that consistency.

1130
01:11:57,520 --> 01:11:59,520
That's kept your resilience.

1131
01:11:59,520 --> 01:12:01,520
Yeah.

1132
01:12:01,520 --> 01:12:03,520
The way I see it me.

1133
01:12:03,520 --> 01:12:05,520
It's like.

1134
01:12:05,520 --> 01:12:07,520
I still want to compete me.

1135
01:12:07,520 --> 01:12:09,520
At 53. That's my goal.

1136
01:12:09,520 --> 01:12:11,520
53.

1137
01:12:11,520 --> 01:12:13,520
My coach.

1138
01:12:13,520 --> 01:12:15,520
My wrestling coach.

1139
01:12:15,520 --> 01:12:17,520
He competed at 52.

1140
01:12:17,520 --> 01:12:19,520
And then there was another guy who I looked up to.

1141
01:12:19,520 --> 01:12:21,520
Ian Bromley.

1142
01:12:21,520 --> 01:12:23,520
He obviously took his life.

1143
01:12:23,520 --> 01:12:25,520
And he was very much like me.

1144
01:12:25,520 --> 01:12:27,520
Probably hardest man I've ever met.

1145
01:12:27,520 --> 01:12:29,520
Mentally.

1146
01:12:29,520 --> 01:12:31,520
Well I thought he wasn't. Mentally and physically.

1147
01:12:31,520 --> 01:12:33,520
You know like. I remember he wrestled.

1148
01:12:33,520 --> 01:12:35,520
He just had his knee operated on.

1149
01:12:35,520 --> 01:12:37,520
His ACL operated on.

1150
01:12:37,520 --> 01:12:39,520
Three weeks prior to world championships.

1151
01:12:39,520 --> 01:12:41,520
And he entered it. Oh no sorry. British Championships.

1152
01:12:41,520 --> 01:12:43,520
And he went at 52 year old.

1153
01:12:43,520 --> 01:12:45,520
He went on and won it.

1154
01:12:45,520 --> 01:12:47,520
And he just had his ACL done.

1155
01:12:47,520 --> 01:12:49,520
And then a year after that he snapped his collar bone.

1156
01:12:49,520 --> 01:12:51,520
And his collar bone was stuck out of his.

1157
01:12:51,520 --> 01:12:53,520
I've never seen anything like it. His collar bone.

1158
01:12:53,520 --> 01:12:55,520
And his nailing coming out of his chest.

1159
01:12:55,520 --> 01:12:57,520
And it says if we operate on it.

1160
01:12:57,520 --> 01:12:59,520
You'll lose the movement of your arm.

1161
01:12:59,520 --> 01:13:01,520
But if we leave it. It's going to get worse.

1162
01:13:01,520 --> 01:13:03,520
So we went and got on that and wrestled.

1163
01:13:03,520 --> 01:13:05,520
At British title against a guy who were like.

1164
01:13:05,520 --> 01:13:07,520
Half his age.

1165
01:13:07,520 --> 01:13:09,520
And won. And I just thought.

1166
01:13:09,520 --> 01:13:11,520
After seeing Ian Bromley doing that.

1167
01:13:11,520 --> 01:13:13,520
He'd set bar for me.

1168
01:13:13,520 --> 01:13:15,520
And it made me realise that.

1169
01:13:15,520 --> 01:13:17,520
Like your body.

1170
01:13:17,520 --> 01:13:19,520
Is capable of lots of things isn't it.

1171
01:13:19,520 --> 01:13:21,520
If you want to do it.

1172
01:13:21,520 --> 01:13:23,520
And that's why I like.

1173
01:13:23,520 --> 01:13:25,520
Same with me. Like fighting.

1174
01:13:25,520 --> 01:13:27,520
I respect fighters who are like.

1175
01:13:27,520 --> 01:13:29,520
Old. Like. Well.

1176
01:13:29,520 --> 01:13:31,520
They're not even old. Like Dan Anderson.

1177
01:13:31,520 --> 01:13:33,520
When he fought this big foot world title.

1178
01:13:33,520 --> 01:13:35,520
And Randy Couture.

1179
01:13:35,520 --> 01:13:37,520
And people like that.

1180
01:13:37,520 --> 01:13:39,520
I respect them sort of fighters.

1181
01:13:39,520 --> 01:13:41,520
And then Bernard Hopkins with boxing.

1182
01:13:41,520 --> 01:13:43,520
And stuff like that.

1183
01:13:43,520 --> 01:13:45,520
To me they're like. They're proper Spartans.

1184
01:13:45,520 --> 01:13:47,520
Still fighting and stuff like that.

1185
01:13:47,520 --> 01:13:49,520
Because I always used to look at like.

1186
01:13:49,520 --> 01:13:51,520
The ones growing up.

1187
01:13:51,520 --> 01:13:53,520
And they were my favourite ever boxer.

1188
01:13:53,520 --> 01:13:55,520
And they like still compete.

1189
01:13:55,520 --> 01:13:57,520
Why is he still compete?

1190
01:13:57,520 --> 01:13:59,520
But then when I look at it.

1191
01:13:59,520 --> 01:14:01,520
That's all he knows.

1192
01:14:01,520 --> 01:14:03,520
If you keep fighting away from him.

1193
01:14:03,520 --> 01:14:05,520
What has he got?

1194
01:14:05,520 --> 01:14:07,520
And he's still skillful enough.

1195
01:14:07,520 --> 01:14:09,520
To hold his own with younger people.

1196
01:14:09,520 --> 01:14:11,520
And people say yeah but he's blemishing his record.

1197
01:14:11,520 --> 01:14:13,520
But then at the end of the day.

1198
01:14:13,520 --> 01:14:15,520
He's lived the Spartan lifestyle.

1199
01:14:15,520 --> 01:14:17,520
So that's the type of lifestyle.

1200
01:14:17,520 --> 01:14:19,520
I want to live.

1201
01:14:19,520 --> 01:14:21,520
I always want to compete.

1202
01:14:21,520 --> 01:14:23,520
I always want to test my body mentally and physically.

1203
01:14:23,520 --> 01:14:25,520
And things like that.

1204
01:14:25,520 --> 01:14:27,520
So I think it's a good thing to do.

1205
01:14:27,520 --> 01:14:29,520
But most people are like.

1206
01:14:29,520 --> 01:14:31,520
Most people are lazy.

1207
01:14:31,520 --> 01:14:33,520
I don't mean in a bad way.

1208
01:14:33,520 --> 01:14:35,520
Kids of society are lazy aren't they?

1209
01:14:35,520 --> 01:14:37,520
They're soft. They're soft.

1210
01:14:37,520 --> 01:14:39,520
I grew up playing out at night.

1211
01:14:39,520 --> 01:14:41,520
And climbing trees and breaking my arms.

1212
01:14:41,520 --> 01:14:43,520
And stuff like that.

1213
01:14:43,520 --> 01:14:45,520
Now they're sat there on the playstations.

1214
01:14:45,520 --> 01:14:47,520
And all sorts in the bedroom.

1215
01:14:47,520 --> 01:14:49,520
Just living a soft life.

1216
01:14:49,520 --> 01:14:53,520
So I'm glad I've lived this life.

1217
01:14:53,520 --> 01:14:55,520
But I've lived. You know what I mean?

1218
01:14:55,520 --> 01:14:57,520
One day I know I'm going to sit back and look.

1219
01:14:57,520 --> 01:14:59,520
And reflect back.

1220
01:14:59,520 --> 01:15:01,520
At the moment I look at like.

1221
01:15:01,520 --> 01:15:03,520
I know titles to me that I've won.

1222
01:15:03,520 --> 01:15:05,520
People say I think I've won about 12 titles.

1223
01:15:05,520 --> 01:15:07,520
Like national titles.

1224
01:15:07,520 --> 01:15:11,520
But I don't even see them as anything.

1225
01:15:11,520 --> 01:15:13,520
I just see them as experiences.

1226
01:15:13,520 --> 01:15:15,520
I know one day I'll probably look back at it.

1227
01:15:15,520 --> 01:15:17,520
And reflect back and think.

1228
01:15:17,520 --> 01:15:19,520
I've done good there.

1229
01:15:19,520 --> 01:15:21,520
But I don't look at it now and think.

1230
01:15:21,520 --> 01:15:23,520
It's good.

1231
01:15:23,520 --> 01:15:25,520
I'm like a magpie. I want more titles.

1232
01:15:25,520 --> 01:15:27,520
I want to be like.

1233
01:15:27,520 --> 01:15:29,520
Not like a legacy.

1234
01:15:29,520 --> 01:15:31,520
I want to be remembered in a sense.

1235
01:15:31,520 --> 01:15:33,520
In Catch Wrestling.

1236
01:15:33,520 --> 01:15:35,520
And I think that's what you should aspire to.

1237
01:15:35,520 --> 01:15:37,520
Well speaking of Catch Wrestling.

1238
01:15:37,520 --> 01:15:39,520
That was a good segue.

1239
01:15:39,520 --> 01:15:41,520
So I had Eric Poulsen on the show.

1240
01:15:41,520 --> 01:15:43,520
I've had Dan Severn on the show.

1241
01:15:43,520 --> 01:15:45,520
When I look at Jiu Jitsu now.

1242
01:15:45,520 --> 01:15:47,520
Which you know arguably has so much.

1243
01:15:47,520 --> 01:15:49,520
You know.

1244
01:15:49,520 --> 01:15:51,520
The efficacy.

1245
01:15:51,520 --> 01:15:53,520
So efficient and effective when it comes to the grappling side.

1246
01:15:53,520 --> 01:15:55,520
But then.

1247
01:15:55,520 --> 01:15:57,520
Dan he did a seminar down here.

1248
01:15:57,520 --> 01:15:59,520
And I took that. And you realize that Catch Wrestling.

1249
01:15:59,520 --> 01:16:01,520
There's all these other spaces.

1250
01:16:01,520 --> 01:16:03,520
Between a lot of the Jiu Jitsu.

1251
01:16:03,520 --> 01:16:05,520
Especially when you look at the rules.

1252
01:16:05,520 --> 01:16:07,520
You can't crank. You can't do this. You can't do that.

1253
01:16:07,520 --> 01:16:09,520
But when it comes to especially law enforcement.

1254
01:16:09,520 --> 01:16:11,520
Or like you said.

1255
01:16:11,520 --> 01:16:13,520
You're a dad protecting your child in the community.

1256
01:16:13,520 --> 01:16:15,520
This is another entire unexplored area.

1257
01:16:15,520 --> 01:16:17,520
That I think is fascinating.

1258
01:16:17,520 --> 01:16:19,520
So talk to me about how you entered Catch Wrestling.

1259
01:16:19,520 --> 01:16:21,520
And let's talk about that entire kind of philosophy.

1260
01:16:23,520 --> 01:16:25,520
Well I suppose it boils.

1261
01:16:25,520 --> 01:16:27,520
Like with Catch.

1262
01:16:27,520 --> 01:16:29,520
I never really knew what it was.

1263
01:16:29,520 --> 01:16:31,520
So say like we're MMA.

1264
01:16:31,520 --> 01:16:33,520
So like Andy Cooper.

1265
01:16:33,520 --> 01:16:35,520
That trainer we're on about.

1266
01:16:35,520 --> 01:16:37,520
He was telling me about his granddad.

1267
01:16:37,520 --> 01:16:39,520
Did Catch or his great granddad.

1268
01:16:39,520 --> 01:16:41,520
Something did Catch. And I never heard it.

1269
01:16:41,520 --> 01:16:43,520
But we used to watch.

1270
01:16:43,520 --> 01:16:45,520
A guy called Tony Ticini.

1271
01:16:45,520 --> 01:16:47,520
Who did Catch Wrestling.

1272
01:16:47,520 --> 01:16:49,520
And what of a guy now?

1273
01:16:49,520 --> 01:16:51,520
Tony Ticini.

1274
01:16:51,520 --> 01:16:53,520
I think it was Matt Fiore.

1275
01:16:53,520 --> 01:16:55,520
And he had like loads of condition videos on wrestling.

1276
01:16:55,520 --> 01:16:57,520
And things like that.

1277
01:16:57,520 --> 01:16:59,520
I came out watching it thinking.

1278
01:16:59,520 --> 01:17:01,520
I'd love to learn that Catch. But there were no like.

1279
01:17:01,520 --> 01:17:03,520
They always said there's no wrestling in Britain.

1280
01:17:03,520 --> 01:17:05,520
Didn't they?

1281
01:17:05,520 --> 01:17:07,520
Like there's no wrestling in Britain.

1282
01:17:07,520 --> 01:17:09,520
But I went to.

1283
01:17:09,520 --> 01:17:11,520
I think it was Las Vegas.

1284
01:17:11,520 --> 01:17:13,520
And I trained at.

1285
01:17:13,520 --> 01:17:15,520
Cobra Kai I think it was.

1286
01:17:15,520 --> 01:17:17,520
And I trained there while I was on holiday.

1287
01:17:17,520 --> 01:17:19,520
And I trained with some wrestlers.

1288
01:17:19,520 --> 01:17:21,520
And I was just doing MMA.

1289
01:17:21,520 --> 01:17:23,520
And I can remember.

1290
01:17:23,520 --> 01:17:25,520
I got up Matt with him.

1291
01:17:25,520 --> 01:17:27,520
And they were like just doing pure wrestling rules.

1292
01:17:27,520 --> 01:17:29,520
And I didn't understand it. I can remember.

1293
01:17:29,520 --> 01:17:31,520
I liked doing really well. They couldn't take me down.

1294
01:17:31,520 --> 01:17:33,520
And they were all saying how long you wrestled for.

1295
01:17:33,520 --> 01:17:35,520
And I was like I've done jiu-jitsu and MMA.

1296
01:17:35,520 --> 01:17:39,520
And I thought god I'm doing really well against these college wrestlers.

1297
01:17:39,520 --> 01:17:41,520
So then I tried to find out a wrestling gym.

1298
01:17:41,520 --> 01:17:43,520
In the UK.

1299
01:17:43,520 --> 01:17:45,520
And I found a guy called.

1300
01:17:45,520 --> 01:17:47,520
Well it was a guy called Ryan Lordsearse.

1301
01:17:47,520 --> 01:17:49,520
And I started training with him.

1302
01:17:49,520 --> 01:17:51,520
And then he introduced me to.

1303
01:17:51,520 --> 01:17:53,520
Jimmy Orrform.

1304
01:17:53,520 --> 01:17:55,520
Who was like a family.

1305
01:17:55,520 --> 01:17:57,520
A family full of wrestlers.

1306
01:17:57,520 --> 01:17:59,520
Brett Orrform.

1307
01:17:59,520 --> 01:18:01,520
Jimmy Orrform.

1308
01:18:01,520 --> 01:18:03,520
Katie Orrform.

1309
01:18:03,520 --> 01:18:05,520
Tommy Orrform.

1310
01:18:05,520 --> 01:18:07,520
They're all champion wrestlers in the UK.

1311
01:18:07,520 --> 01:18:09,520
And they were from Bradford. So I started going over there.

1312
01:18:09,520 --> 01:18:11,520
Learning to wrestle off them.

1313
01:18:11,520 --> 01:18:13,520
But I was just learning like just freestyle side of things.

1314
01:18:13,520 --> 01:18:15,520
Like takedowns.

1315
01:18:15,520 --> 01:18:17,520
And like I didn't really learn any mat wrestling.

1316
01:18:17,520 --> 01:18:19,520
So then I went to a Y club in Manchester.

1317
01:18:19,520 --> 01:18:21,520
And there were all these Iranians there.

1318
01:18:21,520 --> 01:18:23,520
And I'm not kidding.

1319
01:18:23,520 --> 01:18:25,520
They just beat me up.

1320
01:18:25,520 --> 01:18:27,520
They absolutely battered me.

1321
01:18:27,520 --> 01:18:29,520
Absolutely battered me.

1322
01:18:29,520 --> 01:18:31,520
And then I met a guy called Ali Arish.

1323
01:18:31,520 --> 01:18:33,520
And he was like training at Wolfslayer.

1324
01:18:33,520 --> 01:18:35,520
He did a lot of training with Rampage Jax and Bissping.

1325
01:18:35,520 --> 01:18:37,520
And people like that.

1326
01:18:37,520 --> 01:18:39,520
But he was like starting off his MMA career.

1327
01:18:39,520 --> 01:18:41,520
Well he was doing an MMA career.

1328
01:18:41,520 --> 01:18:43,520
But he was like a wrestler from Iran.

1329
01:18:43,520 --> 01:18:45,520
And for some reason.

1330
01:18:45,520 --> 01:18:47,520
When I used to go wrestling he used to drag me to one side.

1331
01:18:47,520 --> 01:18:49,520
And I wanted to learn like pure wrestling.

1332
01:18:49,520 --> 01:18:51,520
And he used to drag me to one side.

1333
01:18:51,520 --> 01:18:53,520
He said you'll do grappling with me in MMA.

1334
01:18:53,520 --> 01:18:55,520
And I'm not kidding. He used to batter me.

1335
01:18:55,520 --> 01:18:57,520
In fact he was probably the first person I got concussion off.

1336
01:18:57,520 --> 01:18:59,520
Because I got him in like an headlock.

1337
01:18:59,520 --> 01:19:01,520
Or a guillotine.

1338
01:19:01,520 --> 01:19:03,520
And he picked me up and slammed me on concrete.

1339
01:19:03,520 --> 01:19:05,520
And it was like.

1340
01:19:05,520 --> 01:19:07,520
They were very much.

1341
01:19:07,520 --> 01:19:09,520
I had to earn his respect.

1342
01:19:09,520 --> 01:19:11,520
It was almost like he had an ego against me.

1343
01:19:11,520 --> 01:19:13,520
And he had to beat me.

1344
01:19:13,520 --> 01:19:15,520
And towards the end I started getting like doing really well against him.

1345
01:19:15,520 --> 01:19:17,520
And sometimes I beat him.

1346
01:19:17,520 --> 01:19:19,520
I used to submit him a lot with Jiu Jitsu.

1347
01:19:19,520 --> 01:19:21,520
But I started like pinning him and stuff like that.

1348
01:19:21,520 --> 01:19:23,520
And then what it was.

1349
01:19:23,520 --> 01:19:25,520
There was a seminar advertised online in 2010.

1350
01:19:25,520 --> 01:19:27,520
And it was.

1351
01:19:27,520 --> 01:19:29,520
I think it was Billy Robinson.

1352
01:19:29,520 --> 01:19:31,520
So I went to this Billy Robinson seminar.

1353
01:19:31,520 --> 01:19:33,520
And I started learning catch.

1354
01:19:33,520 --> 01:19:35,520
And he showed us some mat wrestling.

1355
01:19:35,520 --> 01:19:37,520
And I thought this is more up my street rather than freestyle wrestling.

1356
01:19:37,520 --> 01:19:39,520
Because there's submissions involved and things like that.

1357
01:19:39,520 --> 01:19:41,520
So my brother went up to him.

1358
01:19:41,520 --> 01:19:43,520
And he says where's the best place to learn catch wrestling.

1359
01:19:43,520 --> 01:19:45,520
And he says snake pit in Wigan.

1360
01:19:45,520 --> 01:19:47,520
Roy Wood.

1361
01:19:47,520 --> 01:19:49,520
So then I got a.

1362
01:19:49,520 --> 01:19:51,520
I got a documentary on it.

1363
01:19:51,520 --> 01:19:53,520
About.

1364
01:19:53,520 --> 01:19:55,520
Catch as catch can.

1365
01:19:55,520 --> 01:19:57,520
And Roy was on it.

1366
01:19:57,520 --> 01:19:59,520
And I tried to sort him out to find him.

1367
01:19:59,520 --> 01:20:01,520
But I couldn't find him because we were like no one.

1368
01:20:01,520 --> 01:20:03,520
Interneted are we.

1369
01:20:03,520 --> 01:20:05,520
Then about two years later in 2012.

1370
01:20:05,520 --> 01:20:07,520
The advertiser seminar.

1371
01:20:07,520 --> 01:20:09,520
Put a snake pit.

1372
01:20:09,520 --> 01:20:11,520
And I went.

1373
01:20:11,520 --> 01:20:13,520
And like in 2012 then.

1374
01:20:13,520 --> 01:20:15,520
That's when I started the catch wrestling journey with Roy.

1375
01:20:15,520 --> 01:20:17,520
And to be fair.

1376
01:20:17,520 --> 01:20:19,520
If I had a fan in.

1377
01:20:19,520 --> 01:20:21,520
Probably 10 years earlier.

1378
01:20:21,520 --> 01:20:23,520
I would have put UFC.

1379
01:20:23,520 --> 01:20:25,520
Because what he's taught me.

1380
01:20:25,520 --> 01:20:27,520
Just totally.

1381
01:20:27,520 --> 01:20:29,520
I've never seen anything like it.

1382
01:20:29,520 --> 01:20:31,520
Like mat wrestling and stuff like that.

1383
01:20:31,520 --> 01:20:33,520
Like I went to freestyle wrestling.

1384
01:20:33,520 --> 01:20:35,520
And I had a really good friend.

1385
01:20:35,520 --> 01:20:37,520
Who were like Greco Roman.

1386
01:20:37,520 --> 01:20:39,520
Will champion from Georgia.

1387
01:20:39,520 --> 01:20:41,520
And he showed me this.

1388
01:20:41,520 --> 01:20:43,520
But no one had ever showed me.

1389
01:20:43,520 --> 01:20:45,520
I almost call it the invisible shit.

1390
01:20:45,520 --> 01:20:47,520
It's like the things that you don't see.

1391
01:20:47,520 --> 01:20:49,520
That set up.

1392
01:20:49,520 --> 01:20:51,520
Set up the other things and it was mat wrestling.

1393
01:20:51,520 --> 01:20:53,520
And that was a missing link for me.

1394
01:20:53,520 --> 01:20:55,520
And that's what changed my game.

1395
01:20:55,520 --> 01:20:57,520
Changed the jujitsu game.

1396
01:20:57,520 --> 01:20:59,520
Changed my MMA game.

1397
01:20:59,520 --> 01:21:01,520
Changed my boxing game.

1398
01:21:01,520 --> 01:21:03,520
And it's been a godsend.

1399
01:21:03,520 --> 01:21:05,520
And if it weren't for Roy.

1400
01:21:05,520 --> 01:21:07,520
I would have never learned it.

1401
01:21:07,520 --> 01:21:09,520
So I owe a lot to Roy really.

1402
01:21:09,520 --> 01:21:11,520
And then obviously.

1403
01:21:11,520 --> 01:21:13,520
That's when I went on and started wrestling for Roy.

1404
01:21:13,520 --> 01:21:15,520
And won British and World title.

1405
01:21:15,520 --> 01:21:17,520
So it opened up a lot of doors for me.

1406
01:21:17,520 --> 01:21:19,520
And I really trained it.

1407
01:21:19,520 --> 01:21:21,520
What is it about

1408
01:21:21,520 --> 01:21:23,520
Cache wrestling.

1409
01:21:23,520 --> 01:21:25,520
That's different from what we normally

1410
01:21:25,520 --> 01:21:27,520
learn in jujitsu.

1411
01:21:27,520 --> 01:21:29,520
What is that kind of invisible shit?

1412
01:21:29,520 --> 01:21:31,520
It's like.

1413
01:21:31,520 --> 01:21:33,520
It's almost like you're going.

1414
01:21:33,520 --> 01:21:35,520
It's weird because like.

1415
01:21:35,520 --> 01:21:37,520
With Jits.

1416
01:21:37,520 --> 01:21:39,520
You're going against.

1417
01:21:39,520 --> 01:21:41,520
Obviously Cache.

1418
01:21:41,520 --> 01:21:43,520
It's got pins involved.

1419
01:21:43,520 --> 01:21:45,520
It's got pins involved.

1420
01:21:45,520 --> 01:21:47,520
If you pin someone it's over.

1421
01:21:47,520 --> 01:21:49,520
Whereas like.

1422
01:21:49,520 --> 01:21:51,520
As Jits you can still work off your back.

1423
01:21:51,520 --> 01:21:53,520
And go for submissions.

1424
01:21:53,520 --> 01:21:55,520
But in Cache. If you're on your back.

1425
01:21:55,520 --> 01:21:57,520
They're going to punish you.

1426
01:21:57,520 --> 01:21:59,520
They're going to ride your shins.

1427
01:21:59,520 --> 01:22:01,520
And cross race you and make everything hurt.

1428
01:22:01,520 --> 01:22:03,520
So it's like you've got downward pressure on you.

1429
01:22:03,520 --> 01:22:05,520
So it's almost like once the gentle are.

1430
01:22:05,520 --> 01:22:07,520
Like Cache is the violent art.

1431
01:22:07,520 --> 01:22:09,520
So it's like.

1432
01:22:09,520 --> 01:22:11,520
It's almost like jujitsu.

1433
01:22:11,520 --> 01:22:13,520
Like the old says.

1434
01:22:13,520 --> 01:22:15,520
It's like it's horrible and ugly.

1435
01:22:15,520 --> 01:22:17,520
But it works.

1436
01:22:17,520 --> 01:22:19,520
And it's very economical.

1437
01:22:19,520 --> 01:22:21,520
Whereas Jiu Jitsu.

1438
01:22:21,520 --> 01:22:23,520
I love Jiu Jitsu. You've got to understand Jiu Jitsu.

1439
01:22:23,520 --> 01:22:25,520
And you've got to understand.

1440
01:22:25,520 --> 01:22:27,520
Why the guard is good.

1441
01:22:27,520 --> 01:22:29,520
And you've got to understand submissions in Jiu Jitsu.

1442
01:22:29,520 --> 01:22:31,520
But I think you've got to understand them both.

1443
01:22:31,520 --> 01:22:33,520
I think you've got to understand.

1444
01:22:33,520 --> 01:22:35,520
Because what I do with wrestlers.

1445
01:22:35,520 --> 01:22:37,520
If I get a pure wrestler. I use Jiu Jitsu against them.

1446
01:22:37,520 --> 01:22:39,520
And if I get a pure.

1447
01:22:39,520 --> 01:22:41,520
Like Jiu Jitsu guy.

1448
01:22:41,520 --> 01:22:43,520
I use wrestling against them.

1449
01:22:43,520 --> 01:22:45,520
Or catch against them.

1450
01:22:45,520 --> 01:22:47,520
So I use like different styles.

1451
01:22:47,520 --> 01:22:49,520
Against different styles to beat them.

1452
01:22:49,520 --> 01:22:51,520
And it's almost like tide option.

1453
01:22:51,520 --> 01:22:53,520
Kicking beats. Punching sometimes.

1454
01:22:53,520 --> 01:22:55,520
And punching and wrestling beats.

1455
01:22:55,520 --> 01:22:57,520
It's knowing how to use them against each other.

1456
01:22:57,520 --> 01:22:59,520
And I think that's what I've been good with.

1457
01:22:59,520 --> 01:23:01,520
I understand a lot of the arts.

1458
01:23:01,520 --> 01:23:03,520
I won't say I'm particularly great at wrestling.

1459
01:23:03,520 --> 01:23:05,520
Or Jiu Jitsu.

1460
01:23:05,520 --> 01:23:07,520
But I'm sitting to find a way.

1461
01:23:07,520 --> 01:23:09,520
Whether the conditioning saves me.

1462
01:23:09,520 --> 01:23:11,520
Or my strength saves me.

1463
01:23:11,520 --> 01:23:13,520
Or my wrestling saves me.

1464
01:23:13,520 --> 01:23:15,520
That's why I just train all these different elements.

1465
01:23:15,520 --> 01:23:17,520
But catch is like.

1466
01:23:17,520 --> 01:23:19,520
It's more for my body type.

1467
01:23:19,520 --> 01:23:21,520
I'm not a leggy person.

1468
01:23:21,520 --> 01:23:23,520
I'm 5 foot 9.

1469
01:23:23,520 --> 01:23:25,520
I'm built like DT.

1470
01:23:25,520 --> 01:23:27,520
So I need to be able.

1471
01:23:27,520 --> 01:23:29,520
My game is get on top.

1472
01:23:29,520 --> 01:23:31,520
And wear people out.

1473
01:23:31,520 --> 01:23:33,520
And realistically.

1474
01:23:33,520 --> 01:23:35,520
It's a combat.

1475
01:23:35,520 --> 01:23:37,520
It's an ultimate combat sport really.

1476
01:23:37,520 --> 01:23:39,520
Because when you think about it.

1477
01:23:39,520 --> 01:23:41,520
If you can't beat them.

1478
01:23:41,520 --> 01:23:43,520
You can knock them out with a slam.

1479
01:23:43,520 --> 01:23:45,520
Or you can punish them on the floor.

1480
01:23:45,520 --> 01:23:47,520
But you've still got to have some boxing ability.

1481
01:23:47,520 --> 01:23:49,520
As well.

1482
01:23:49,520 --> 01:23:51,520
For everyday life.

1483
01:23:51,520 --> 01:23:53,520
You don't like to understand when a punch is coming.

1484
01:23:53,520 --> 01:23:55,520
So I think you've got to train everything.

1485
01:23:55,520 --> 01:23:57,520
But if I could have one.

1486
01:23:57,520 --> 01:23:59,520
If I could have one tool in my book.

1487
01:23:59,520 --> 01:24:01,520
And I had to have a catch wrestling for me.

1488
01:24:01,520 --> 01:24:03,520
Just because.

1489
01:24:03,520 --> 01:24:05,520
I know I can shoot him. Pick someone up.

1490
01:24:05,520 --> 01:24:07,520
And walk off if need be.

1491
01:24:07,520 --> 01:24:09,520
Or I can submit him on floor.

1492
01:24:09,520 --> 01:24:11,520
And be on top and escape.

1493
01:24:11,520 --> 01:24:13,520
If it just hits up.

1494
01:24:13,520 --> 01:24:15,520
So yeah I think it's an ultimate game changer.

1495
01:24:15,520 --> 01:24:17,520
But.

1496
01:24:17,520 --> 01:24:19,520
At the same time you've got to have Jiu Jitsu as well.

1497
01:24:21,520 --> 01:24:23,520
When I think about all the different.

1498
01:24:23,520 --> 01:24:25,520
Combatives and you know.

1499
01:24:25,520 --> 01:24:27,520
Defensive tactics that are taught in law enforcement.

1500
01:24:27,520 --> 01:24:29,520
You know obviously.

1501
01:24:29,520 --> 01:24:31,520
The Jiu Jitsu side has elements.

1502
01:24:31,520 --> 01:24:33,520
And again just like we talked about.

1503
01:24:33,520 --> 01:24:35,520
You know you're not going to drop and do a leg lock.

1504
01:24:35,520 --> 01:24:37,520
On someone to try and cuff them.

1505
01:24:37,520 --> 01:24:39,520
Probably not understanding that.

1506
01:24:39,520 --> 01:24:41,520
But it seems to me that really it's about compliance.

1507
01:24:41,520 --> 01:24:43,520
And this is why I mean a well trained officer.

1508
01:24:43,520 --> 01:24:45,520
In my opinion should be able to use a choke.

1509
01:24:45,520 --> 01:24:47,520
Because there's nothing you know that makes you go along with what someone asks you.

1510
01:24:47,520 --> 01:24:49,520
That when you're.

1511
01:24:49,520 --> 01:24:51,520
When the world is closing in front of you.

1512
01:24:51,520 --> 01:24:53,520
But obviously I understand the danger of an untrained person.

1513
01:24:53,520 --> 01:24:55,520
Using it inappropriately.

1514
01:24:55,520 --> 01:24:57,520
But it seems when it comes to compliance.

1515
01:24:57,520 --> 01:24:59,520
A lot of the cranks that you see in catch.

1516
01:24:59,520 --> 01:25:01,520
And you know.

1517
01:25:01,520 --> 01:25:03,520
Would be good at persuading someone.

1518
01:25:03,520 --> 01:25:05,520
To allow their hands to be cuffed.

1519
01:25:05,520 --> 01:25:07,520
So what are your philosophies on.

1520
01:25:07,520 --> 01:25:09,520
All these different arts that you've learned.

1521
01:25:09,520 --> 01:25:11,520
When it comes to law enforcement.

1522
01:25:11,520 --> 01:25:13,520
Whether it's in the US or back home in the UK.

1523
01:25:13,520 --> 01:25:15,520
Well obviously we're working on.

1524
01:25:15,520 --> 01:25:17,520
That I've been like I've been in a lot of.

1525
01:25:17,520 --> 01:25:19,520
Situations where like both.

1526
01:25:19,520 --> 01:25:21,520
Jiu Jitsu.

1527
01:25:21,520 --> 01:25:23,520
It's all saved me.

1528
01:25:23,520 --> 01:25:25,520
You know like just through.

1529
01:25:25,520 --> 01:25:27,520
Like someone tried to stab me a few years ago.

1530
01:25:27,520 --> 01:25:29,520
And I've been like.

1531
01:25:29,520 --> 01:25:31,520
Like someone tried to stab me a few years ago.

1532
01:25:31,520 --> 01:25:33,520
And I was actually trying to help him.

1533
01:25:33,520 --> 01:25:35,520
So it saved me.

1534
01:25:35,520 --> 01:25:37,520
In that sense you know like.

1535
01:25:37,520 --> 01:25:39,520
So I think yeah.

1536
01:25:39,520 --> 01:25:41,520
It should be allowed to be used.

1537
01:25:41,520 --> 01:25:43,520
And I'm a true believer as well.

1538
01:25:43,520 --> 01:25:45,520
Like my theory on life.

1539
01:25:45,520 --> 01:25:47,520
Probably everyone thinks I'm a dickhead for saying this.

1540
01:25:47,520 --> 01:25:49,520
But I'd sooner do six.

1541
01:25:49,520 --> 01:25:51,520
Than be carried by six.

1542
01:25:51,520 --> 01:25:53,520
So at the end of the day.

1543
01:25:53,520 --> 01:25:55,520
I'd be willing.

1544
01:25:55,520 --> 01:25:57,520
Well not throw me life away.

1545
01:25:57,520 --> 01:25:59,520
I'm not saying I what.

1546
01:25:59,520 --> 01:26:01,520
I always think violence.

1547
01:26:01,520 --> 01:26:03,520
It's horrible, it's ugly and it's shit.

1548
01:26:03,520 --> 01:26:05,520
But I always think.

1549
01:26:05,520 --> 01:26:07,520
If someone endangers me with a life.

1550
01:26:07,520 --> 01:26:09,520
You've got to be.

1551
01:26:09,520 --> 01:26:11,520
You've got to make it ugly for them.

1552
01:26:11,520 --> 01:26:13,520
It don't look nice.

1553
01:26:13,520 --> 01:26:15,520
It don't look pretty.

1554
01:26:15,520 --> 01:26:17,520
But I've learnt over years.

1555
01:26:17,520 --> 01:26:19,520
It's not like you were saying about.

1556
01:26:19,520 --> 01:26:21,520
Taekwondo.

1557
01:26:21,520 --> 01:26:23,520
It's pretty and it looks really nice.

1558
01:26:23,520 --> 01:26:25,520
And stuff like that.

1559
01:26:25,520 --> 01:26:27,520
But I've learnt things.

1560
01:26:27,520 --> 01:26:29,520
I've got to be able to perform like a brick.

1561
01:26:29,520 --> 01:26:31,520
And beat someone up.

1562
01:26:31,520 --> 01:26:33,520
And I value my life now.

1563
01:26:33,520 --> 01:26:35,520
More than anything.

1564
01:26:35,520 --> 01:26:37,520
So I think like this.

1565
01:26:37,520 --> 01:26:39,520
I always said.

1566
01:26:39,520 --> 01:26:41,520
I got arrested years ago for fighting on doors.

1567
01:26:41,520 --> 01:26:43,520
Basically someone attacked me.

1568
01:26:43,520 --> 01:26:45,520
And I had to go to paration.

1569
01:26:45,520 --> 01:26:47,520
And she said.

1570
01:26:47,520 --> 01:26:49,520
You need to be more proactive.

1571
01:26:49,520 --> 01:26:51,520
Than reactive.

1572
01:26:51,520 --> 01:26:53,520
And I just thought.

1573
01:26:53,520 --> 01:26:55,520
I didn't say it to the woman.

1574
01:26:55,520 --> 01:26:57,520
But she said. Would you do it again?

1575
01:26:57,520 --> 01:26:59,520
And I said. Listen.

1576
01:26:59,520 --> 01:27:01,520
I said I'd sooner do six.

1577
01:27:01,520 --> 01:27:03,520
Than be carried by six.

1578
01:27:03,520 --> 01:27:05,520
And it didn't go down right.

1579
01:27:05,520 --> 01:27:07,520
I didn't know the law system.

1580
01:27:07,520 --> 01:27:09,520
It nearly got me sent down.

1581
01:27:09,520 --> 01:27:11,520
But what I was saying. I value my life.

1582
01:27:11,520 --> 01:27:13,520
More than the piece of shit that's trying to hurt me.

1583
01:27:13,520 --> 01:27:15,520
So.

1584
01:27:15,520 --> 01:27:17,520
I would do it again.

1585
01:27:17,520 --> 01:27:19,520
And I think you've got to be.

1586
01:27:19,520 --> 01:27:21,520
I think you've got to be more violent than the other person.

1587
01:27:21,520 --> 01:27:23,520
But I think as well.

1588
01:27:23,520 --> 01:27:25,520
It's knowing.

1589
01:27:25,520 --> 01:27:27,520
The type of person that you're up against.

1590
01:27:27,520 --> 01:27:29,520
It's like. In the village I live in.

1591
01:27:29,520 --> 01:27:31,520
You'll know.

1592
01:27:31,520 --> 01:27:33,520
Who local dickheads are.

1593
01:27:33,520 --> 01:27:35,520
Or local trouble causes.

1594
01:27:35,520 --> 01:27:37,520
Who psychopaths are.

1595
01:27:37,520 --> 01:27:39,520
And stuff like that.

1596
01:27:39,520 --> 01:27:41,520
So if I go to work in a different town.

1597
01:27:41,520 --> 01:27:43,520
So like.

1598
01:27:43,520 --> 01:27:45,520
I work in a village called Marmington.

1599
01:27:45,520 --> 01:27:47,520
At work.

1600
01:27:47,520 --> 01:27:49,520
I'll be walking up town. And if I see like a dodgy character.

1601
01:27:49,520 --> 01:27:51,520
Who looks dodgy.

1602
01:27:51,520 --> 01:27:53,520
I'll say to my mate. I'll say what's he like. Who's that.

1603
01:27:53,520 --> 01:27:55,520
And I'm trying to.

1604
01:27:55,520 --> 01:27:57,520
It sounds weird this. But I'm always like stroking the area out.

1605
01:27:57,520 --> 01:27:59,520
To find out who the local dickhead is.

1606
01:27:59,520 --> 01:28:01,520
So I know.

1607
01:28:01,520 --> 01:28:03,520
So I know whether I need to avoid him.

1608
01:28:03,520 --> 01:28:05,520
Or if it does go tits up.

1609
01:28:05,520 --> 01:28:07,520
I need to be able to.

1610
01:28:07,520 --> 01:28:09,520
Know what level to take it to.

1611
01:28:09,520 --> 01:28:11,520
If it's just like a general person.

1612
01:28:11,520 --> 01:28:13,520
Say like a student. Who's like an out of student.

1613
01:28:13,520 --> 01:28:15,520
I think I'll just give a slap.

1614
01:28:15,520 --> 01:28:17,520
Or scare him with words.

1615
01:28:17,520 --> 01:28:19,520
But then.

1616
01:28:19,520 --> 01:28:21,520
You're going to get absolute dickhead.

1617
01:28:21,520 --> 01:28:23,520
Who's willing to take it to that next level.

1618
01:28:23,520 --> 01:28:25,520
And glass you.

1619
01:28:25,520 --> 01:28:27,520
Then it's a scary level.

1620
01:28:27,520 --> 01:28:29,520
Like I've given an example.

1621
01:28:29,520 --> 01:28:31,520
Years ago.

1622
01:28:31,520 --> 01:28:33,520
I looked like geeky kids.

1623
01:28:33,520 --> 01:28:35,520
Like absolute geeks. With glasses like geeks.

1624
01:28:35,520 --> 01:28:37,520
Probably student type.

1625
01:28:37,520 --> 01:28:39,520
And.

1626
01:28:39,520 --> 01:28:41,520
One of them.

1627
01:28:41,520 --> 01:28:43,520
I'm not the best at arguing.

1628
01:28:43,520 --> 01:28:45,520
And he out argued me.

1629
01:28:45,520 --> 01:28:47,520
And then they look like dickheads.

1630
01:28:47,520 --> 01:28:49,520
And put all these people right.

1631
01:28:49,520 --> 01:28:51,520
And I thought I can't hit him.

1632
01:28:51,520 --> 01:28:53,520
Because he's an absolute geek.

1633
01:28:53,520 --> 01:28:55,520
I thought if I hit him he's going to look like a bully.

1634
01:28:55,520 --> 01:28:57,520
But the week after then.

1635
01:28:57,520 --> 01:28:59,520
He came in again.

1636
01:28:59,520 --> 01:29:01,520
And it went on for about three weeks.

1637
01:29:01,520 --> 01:29:03,520
So then I ended up giving him a slap.

1638
01:29:03,520 --> 01:29:05,520
And I looked at him.

1639
01:29:05,520 --> 01:29:07,520
I felt bad for doing it.

1640
01:29:07,520 --> 01:29:09,520
But I think it needed to be done.

1641
01:29:09,520 --> 01:29:11,520
Because then he was almost trying to bully me.

1642
01:29:11,520 --> 01:29:13,520
With his intelligence.

1643
01:29:13,520 --> 01:29:15,520
So then like years later.

1644
01:29:15,520 --> 01:29:17,520
There was this big kid on the door.

1645
01:29:17,520 --> 01:29:19,520
And when I went on the door.

1646
01:29:19,520 --> 01:29:21,520
He was like a big scary dude.

1647
01:29:21,520 --> 01:29:23,520
And I thought he basically offered me out.

1648
01:29:23,520 --> 01:29:25,520
And I thought if I don't fight him.

1649
01:29:25,520 --> 01:29:27,520
He's going to come back week from week.

1650
01:29:27,520 --> 01:29:29,520
And I'm just going to have to like.

1651
01:29:29,520 --> 01:29:31,520
I'm just going to look like an absolute geek.

1652
01:29:31,520 --> 01:29:33,520
For not fighting him.

1653
01:29:33,520 --> 01:29:35,520
So I never fight him. And I beat him up.

1654
01:29:35,520 --> 01:29:37,520
So like now.

1655
01:29:37,520 --> 01:29:39,520
I look at people.

1656
01:29:39,520 --> 01:29:41,520
I do weigh up the situation.

1657
01:29:41,520 --> 01:29:43,520
The after effect.

1658
01:29:43,520 --> 01:29:45,520
What it can cause as well.

1659
01:29:45,520 --> 01:29:47,520
If I haven't hit that big guy.

1660
01:29:47,520 --> 01:29:49,520
He's probably coming week after and bullying me.

1661
01:29:49,520 --> 01:29:51,520
But then I learned the hard way.

1662
01:29:51,520 --> 01:29:53,520
Because I didn't tell Geeta.

1663
01:29:53,520 --> 01:29:55,520
For doing what I've done.

1664
01:29:55,520 --> 01:29:57,520
For doing what I've done.

1665
01:29:57,520 --> 01:29:59,520
I've done.

1666
01:29:59,520 --> 01:30:01,520
I've done.

1667
01:30:01,520 --> 01:30:03,520
So if I didn't.

1668
01:30:03,520 --> 01:30:05,520
React to the geeky kids.

1669
01:30:05,520 --> 01:30:07,520
And I've probably been bullied by them.

1670
01:30:07,520 --> 01:30:09,520
Intellectually.

1671
01:30:09,520 --> 01:30:11,520
I weigh up the situations now.

1672
01:30:11,520 --> 01:30:13,520
I try and like almost do recondition.

1673
01:30:13,520 --> 01:30:15,520
I'm working on it.

1674
01:30:15,520 --> 01:30:17,520
People fascinate me.

1675
01:30:17,520 --> 01:30:19,520
Like if I go to a town and someone says.

1676
01:30:19,520 --> 01:30:21,520
Oh these are the village.

1677
01:30:21,520 --> 01:30:23,520
And a tough lad.

1678
01:30:23,520 --> 01:30:25,520
I say why is he hard.

1679
01:30:25,520 --> 01:30:27,520
Does he know boxing or does he know wrestling.

1680
01:30:27,520 --> 01:30:29,520
Or does he play rugby.

1681
01:30:29,520 --> 01:30:31,520
And I'm like. It sounds weird.

1682
01:30:31,520 --> 01:30:33,520
I'm almost in that fight or flight mode.

1683
01:30:33,520 --> 01:30:35,520
All the time.

1684
01:30:35,520 --> 01:30:37,520
It's an obsession really.

1685
01:30:37,520 --> 01:30:39,520
I don't know if it's autism or something.

1686
01:30:39,520 --> 01:30:41,520
Like an obsession where I have to know.

1687
01:30:41,520 --> 01:30:43,520
Who the hardest man in the village is.

1688
01:30:43,520 --> 01:30:45,520
Not to cause trouble.

1689
01:30:45,520 --> 01:30:47,520
But like if it ever comes on top.

1690
01:30:47,520 --> 01:30:49,520
Where I think right it's a boxer.

1691
01:30:49,520 --> 01:30:51,520
Or if he's a rugby player so I'll be fit and rough.

1692
01:30:51,520 --> 01:30:53,520
Or it's an absolute psychopath.

1693
01:30:53,520 --> 01:30:55,520
He hits someone with an hammer.

1694
01:30:55,520 --> 01:30:57,520
And that's what I'm like.

1695
01:30:57,520 --> 01:30:59,520
I'm always like weighing up the situations all the time.

1696
01:30:59,520 --> 01:31:01,520
And it's like I'm living in that fight or flight.

1697
01:31:01,520 --> 01:31:03,520
All the time 24 7.

1698
01:31:03,520 --> 01:31:05,520
But that's what keeps you alive in a sense.

1699
01:31:05,520 --> 01:31:07,520
If you were like survival of a thickest of world.

1700
01:31:07,520 --> 01:31:09,520
It's like.

1701
01:31:09,520 --> 01:31:11,520
You'd want to know if there were a tiger wouldn't you.

1702
01:31:11,520 --> 01:31:13,520
Absolutely.

1703
01:31:13,520 --> 01:31:15,520
Well it's funny even when you said about the kind of intellectual bullying.

1704
01:31:15,520 --> 01:31:17,520
Because you see that a lot now.

1705
01:31:17,520 --> 01:31:19,520
And I just cringe.

1706
01:31:19,520 --> 01:31:21,520
I feel so sorry for our police officers that put up with that shit.

1707
01:31:21,520 --> 01:31:23,520
People are there with their cell phones and they're yapping off.

1708
01:31:23,520 --> 01:31:25,520
And there's a certain point where yeah.

1709
01:31:25,520 --> 01:31:27,520
I think I'm sorry but you crossed that line.

1710
01:31:27,520 --> 01:31:29,520
And you deserve a slap at that point.

1711
01:31:29,520 --> 01:31:31,520
Yeah.

1712
01:31:31,520 --> 01:31:33,520
Violence is ugly. It's ugly.

1713
01:31:33,520 --> 01:31:35,520
That took me a bit of time to get over that.

1714
01:31:35,520 --> 01:31:37,520
And I think the doors did that.

1715
01:31:37,520 --> 01:31:39,520
Because I used to always be like really.

1716
01:31:39,520 --> 01:31:41,520
I still am kind hearted.

1717
01:31:41,520 --> 01:31:43,520
I'm a kind hearted person.

1718
01:31:43,520 --> 01:31:45,520
I almost feel like if I saw someone getting bullied.

1719
01:31:45,520 --> 01:31:47,520
I almost feel like I'm a superhero.

1720
01:31:47,520 --> 01:31:49,520
And I have to help them.

1721
01:31:49,520 --> 01:31:51,520
And I like.

1722
01:31:51,520 --> 01:31:53,520
It sounds horrible.

1723
01:31:53,520 --> 01:31:55,520
I like to bully the bully.

1724
01:31:55,520 --> 01:31:57,520
I don't like bullies because I know what it's like to be bullied.

1725
01:31:57,520 --> 01:31:59,520
So.

1726
01:31:59,520 --> 01:32:01,520
But I don't want to come across as an absolute dickhead.

1727
01:32:01,520 --> 01:32:03,520
You get what I mean.

1728
01:32:03,520 --> 01:32:05,520
But by the way I talk.

1729
01:32:05,520 --> 01:32:07,520
But I hate bullies.

1730
01:32:07,520 --> 01:32:09,520
I don't like seeing bullied bully people.

1731
01:32:09,520 --> 01:32:11,520
But at the same time.

1732
01:32:11,520 --> 01:32:13,520
It never did me any harm.

1733
01:32:13,520 --> 01:32:15,520
It hardened me mentally and physically I think.

1734
01:32:15,520 --> 01:32:17,520
Going back to the law enforcement side.

1735
01:32:17,520 --> 01:32:19,520
Just for a second.

1736
01:32:19,520 --> 01:32:21,520
So if you could create a kind of martial arts or defensive tactics program.

1737
01:32:21,520 --> 01:32:23,520
For the British police for example.

1738
01:32:23,520 --> 01:32:25,520
What would be some of the.

1739
01:32:25,520 --> 01:32:27,040
The

1740
01:32:27,040 --> 01:32:29,520
The

1741
01:32:29,520 --> 01:32:31,520
The moves is the wrong word.

1742
01:32:31,520 --> 01:32:33,520
What would be kind of be the training philosophy.

1743
01:32:33,520 --> 01:32:35,520
For them to.

1744
01:32:35,520 --> 01:32:37,520
Because I mean it's such a hard hard thing.

1745
01:32:37,520 --> 01:32:39,520
That you don't just.

1746
01:32:39,520 --> 01:32:41,520
You're not defending yourself against this person.

1747
01:32:41,520 --> 01:32:43,520
You have to restrain them and cuff them.

1748
01:32:43,520 --> 01:32:45,520
Which is another entire level.

1749
01:32:45,520 --> 01:32:47,520
So what would it look like if you could design that for.

1750
01:32:47,520 --> 01:32:49,520
For example the Met police.

1751
01:32:49,520 --> 01:32:51,520
For the combat sand bowl.

1752
01:32:51,520 --> 01:32:53,520
Combat sand bowl.

1753
01:32:53,520 --> 01:32:55,520
Combat sand bowl.

1754
01:32:55,520 --> 01:32:57,520
But then obviously with your weapons training as well.

1755
01:32:57,520 --> 01:32:59,520
Because that's massive now.

1756
01:32:59,520 --> 01:33:01,520
People don't attack with knives.

1757
01:33:01,520 --> 01:33:03,520
Machetes and stuff like that.

1758
01:33:03,520 --> 01:33:05,520
It's like guns.

1759
01:33:05,520 --> 01:33:07,520
So yeah I think.

1760
01:33:07,520 --> 01:33:09,520
Probably combat.

1761
01:33:09,520 --> 01:33:11,520
I think Russians have got it.

1762
01:33:11,520 --> 01:33:13,520
Combat sand bowls definitely.

1763
01:33:13,520 --> 01:33:15,520
Everything.

1764
01:33:15,520 --> 01:33:17,520
It's like you've got your punching.

1765
01:33:17,520 --> 01:33:19,520
Your kicking.

1766
01:33:19,520 --> 01:33:21,520
Your headbutting.

1767
01:33:21,520 --> 01:33:23,520
You know your limbs basically.

1768
01:33:23,520 --> 01:33:25,520
And obviously I think another.

1769
01:33:25,520 --> 01:33:27,520
It's like what.

1770
01:33:27,520 --> 01:33:29,520
Verbal jujitsu as I call it.

1771
01:33:29,520 --> 01:33:31,520
I watched the thing on that.

1772
01:33:31,520 --> 01:33:33,520
Being able to talk to people.

1773
01:33:33,520 --> 01:33:35,520
That's like a common sense thing.

1774
01:33:35,520 --> 01:33:37,520
But I don't think.

1775
01:33:37,520 --> 01:33:39,520
I didn't learn how to talk.

1776
01:33:39,520 --> 01:33:41,520
Because I was really shy.

1777
01:33:41,520 --> 01:33:43,520
So I started working.

1778
01:33:43,520 --> 01:33:45,520
Working in gyms.

1779
01:33:45,520 --> 01:33:47,520
You learn how to talk.

1780
01:33:47,520 --> 01:33:49,520
And defuse situations.

1781
01:33:49,520 --> 01:33:51,520
I think that's.

1782
01:33:51,520 --> 01:33:53,520
I've had it with police where they pulled me over.

1783
01:33:53,520 --> 01:33:55,520
And they spoke to me like shit.

1784
01:33:55,520 --> 01:33:57,520
When I've been driving back from DARS.

1785
01:33:57,520 --> 01:33:59,520
And they talk to you like shit.

1786
01:33:59,520 --> 01:34:01,520
And they're just little geeky kids that have been to university.

1787
01:34:01,520 --> 01:34:03,520
And I've got no life skills.

1788
01:34:03,520 --> 01:34:05,520
So I think.

1789
01:34:05,520 --> 01:34:07,520
Being in.

1790
01:34:07,520 --> 01:34:09,520
They'll probably get their life skills anyway.

1791
01:34:09,520 --> 01:34:11,520
Working in police.

1792
01:34:11,520 --> 01:34:13,520
Because they're probably going to upset people.

1793
01:34:13,520 --> 01:34:15,520
But I learned by DARS.

1794
01:34:15,520 --> 01:34:17,520
Watching other people.

1795
01:34:17,520 --> 01:34:19,520
How they spoke to people.

1796
01:34:19,520 --> 01:34:21,520
And when people crossed line.

1797
01:34:21,520 --> 01:34:23,520
A lot of people don't understand.

1798
01:34:23,520 --> 01:34:25,520
Body language.

1799
01:34:25,520 --> 01:34:27,520
Probably the most spoken thing in life.

1800
01:34:27,520 --> 01:34:29,520
But no one understands it.

1801
01:34:29,520 --> 01:34:31,520
They don't understand it.

1802
01:34:31,520 --> 01:34:33,520
They don't understand when they're getting.

1803
01:34:33,520 --> 01:34:35,520
When people are starting with.

1804
01:34:35,520 --> 01:34:37,520
Threatening them.

1805
01:34:37,520 --> 01:34:39,520
They'll turn away.

1806
01:34:39,520 --> 01:34:41,520
And that could be like a life threatening punch.

1807
01:34:41,520 --> 01:34:43,520
Where someone's going to hit you and stuff like that.

1808
01:34:43,520 --> 01:34:45,520
Rather than facing it head on and trying to talk it.

1809
01:34:45,520 --> 01:34:47,520
And defuse situations.

1810
01:34:47,520 --> 01:34:49,520
So I think.

1811
01:34:49,520 --> 01:34:51,520
If I were going to train police.

1812
01:34:51,520 --> 01:34:53,520
I'd teach them combat skills.

1813
01:34:53,520 --> 01:34:55,520
Definitely.

1814
01:34:55,520 --> 01:34:57,520
Obviously some sort of knife.

1815
01:34:57,520 --> 01:34:59,520
Weapon art.

1816
01:34:59,520 --> 01:35:01,520
Gun art.

1817
01:35:01,520 --> 01:35:03,520
Don't be shooting or guns really.

1818
01:35:03,520 --> 01:35:05,520
So you've got to learn that.

1819
01:35:05,520 --> 01:35:07,520
And then at the same time.

1820
01:35:07,520 --> 01:35:09,520
Communication skills.

1821
01:35:09,520 --> 01:35:11,520
How to talk.

1822
01:35:11,520 --> 01:35:13,520
How to defuse a situation.

1823
01:35:13,520 --> 01:35:15,520
That's the first line of defence.

1824
01:35:15,520 --> 01:35:17,520
If someone says what you're staring at.

1825
01:35:17,520 --> 01:35:19,520
You're going to defuse the situation straight away.

1826
01:35:19,520 --> 01:35:21,520
Whereas if like.

1827
01:35:21,520 --> 01:35:23,520
I'm staring at your girlfriend or you.

1828
01:35:23,520 --> 01:35:25,520
It's going to flare up straight away.

1829
01:35:25,520 --> 01:35:27,520
But if you say.

1830
01:35:27,520 --> 01:35:29,520
All your trainers or that.

1831
01:35:29,520 --> 01:35:31,520
Or your bottle of beer.

1832
01:35:31,520 --> 01:35:33,520
It looks unusual.

1833
01:35:33,520 --> 01:35:35,520
It learns how to defuse a situation.

1834
01:35:35,520 --> 01:35:37,520
So I think.

1835
01:35:37,520 --> 01:35:39,520
Realistically.

1836
01:35:39,520 --> 01:35:41,520
It's common sense.

1837
01:35:41,520 --> 01:35:43,520
Building better people.

1838
01:35:43,520 --> 01:35:45,520
You know what I mean.

1839
01:35:45,520 --> 01:35:47,520
Spain or somewhere like that.

1840
01:35:47,520 --> 01:35:49,520
You're scared to death at police aren't you.

1841
01:35:49,520 --> 01:35:51,520
You know they've all been to military school.

1842
01:35:51,520 --> 01:35:53,520
They've all like.

1843
01:35:53,520 --> 01:35:55,520
They've probably been taught how to fight.

1844
01:35:55,520 --> 01:35:57,520
And don't take any shit.

1845
01:35:57,520 --> 01:35:59,520
And they're not scared of hitting you with a weapon or CS guessing.

1846
01:35:59,520 --> 01:36:01,520
So I think.

1847
01:36:01,520 --> 01:36:03,520
This country we're soft aren't we.

1848
01:36:03,520 --> 01:36:05,520
Like definitely.

1849
01:36:05,520 --> 01:36:07,520
Well the other side of that conversation.

1850
01:36:07,520 --> 01:36:09,520
Is obviously.

1851
01:36:09,520 --> 01:36:11,520
I talk about this in America.

1852
01:36:11,520 --> 01:36:13,520
Everyone points at the police.

1853
01:36:13,520 --> 01:36:15,520
Or you know they're fat or whatever.

1854
01:36:15,520 --> 01:36:17,520
The kind of.

1855
01:36:17,520 --> 01:36:19,520
The opinion is that particular officer on that particular occasion.

1856
01:36:19,520 --> 01:36:21,520
But no one's saying.

1857
01:36:21,520 --> 01:36:23,520
Why are the streets so dangerous.

1858
01:36:23,520 --> 01:36:25,520
In America.

1859
01:36:25,520 --> 01:36:27,520
You look at the prohibition of drugs and all these other areas.

1860
01:36:27,520 --> 01:36:29,520
You know the poverty that's created a lot of the danger.

1861
01:36:29,520 --> 01:36:31,520
That our police now look like they're going to Fallujah.

1862
01:36:31,520 --> 01:36:33,520
Every time they step out.

1863
01:36:33,520 --> 01:36:35,520
Now we're seeing this increase in knife crime.

1864
01:36:35,520 --> 01:36:37,520
In the UK.

1865
01:36:37,520 --> 01:36:39,520
What are the issues that are causing it.

1866
01:36:39,520 --> 01:36:41,520
The streets of the UK to be more dangerous.

1867
01:36:41,520 --> 01:36:43,520
At the moment.

1868
01:36:43,520 --> 01:36:45,520
And if you were king for the day.

1869
01:36:45,520 --> 01:36:47,520
How can we reverse that.

1870
01:36:47,520 --> 01:36:49,520
How can we create this resilience.

1871
01:36:49,520 --> 01:36:51,520
In these children.

1872
01:36:51,520 --> 01:36:53,520
So they don't kind of romanticize about this gang culture.

1873
01:36:53,520 --> 01:36:55,520
I think it's music.

1874
01:36:55,520 --> 01:36:57,520
One of them isn't it.

1875
01:36:57,520 --> 01:36:59,520
Listening to shite.

1876
01:36:59,520 --> 01:37:01,520
Everything they talk about is money.

1877
01:37:01,520 --> 01:37:03,520
Blins, women, cars, guns, drugs.

1878
01:37:03,520 --> 01:37:05,520
Knives.

1879
01:37:05,520 --> 01:37:07,520
Chunky people.

1880
01:37:07,520 --> 01:37:09,520
They almost think prison is good.

1881
01:37:09,520 --> 01:37:11,520
And I think.

1882
01:37:11,520 --> 01:37:13,520
Obviously education.

1883
01:37:13,520 --> 01:37:15,520
I think education is shit.

1884
01:37:15,520 --> 01:37:17,520
As dark as it sounds.

1885
01:37:17,520 --> 01:37:19,520
I never got.

1886
01:37:19,520 --> 01:37:21,520
I don't like school.

1887
01:37:21,520 --> 01:37:23,520
I want the brightest.

1888
01:37:23,520 --> 01:37:25,520
I'm probably autistic as well.

1889
01:37:25,520 --> 01:37:27,520
But.

1890
01:37:27,520 --> 01:37:29,520
I never got taught.

1891
01:37:29,520 --> 01:37:31,520
Any life skills in school.

1892
01:37:31,520 --> 01:37:33,520
All my life skills I learned.

1893
01:37:33,520 --> 01:37:35,520
From martial arts.

1894
01:37:35,520 --> 01:37:37,520
And from my dad.

1895
01:37:37,520 --> 01:37:39,520
And my parents teaching me.

1896
01:37:39,520 --> 01:37:41,520
But then you.

1897
01:37:41,520 --> 01:37:43,520
You spend a lifetime learning from people.

1898
01:37:43,520 --> 01:37:45,520
But then as you get older.

1899
01:37:45,520 --> 01:37:47,520
You realize it's all wrong.

1900
01:37:47,520 --> 01:37:49,520
That you've been taught.

1901
01:37:49,520 --> 01:37:51,520
So you've got to reprogram yourself.

1902
01:37:51,520 --> 01:37:53,520
I think you learn through reading books.

1903
01:37:53,520 --> 01:37:55,520
Like good books.

1904
01:37:55,520 --> 01:37:57,520
And I suppose internet.

1905
01:37:57,520 --> 01:37:59,520
You learn from internet these days.

1906
01:37:59,520 --> 01:38:01,520
But you've got a lot of pros and cons to it.

1907
01:38:01,520 --> 01:38:03,520
Because you've studied all your gangster rap.

1908
01:38:03,520 --> 01:38:05,520
And stuff like that.

1909
01:38:05,520 --> 01:38:07,520
And even like computer games.

1910
01:38:07,520 --> 01:38:09,520
And films and stuff like that.

1911
01:38:09,520 --> 01:38:11,520
Changing people.

1912
01:38:11,520 --> 01:38:13,520
They're almost looking at criminals.

1913
01:38:13,520 --> 01:38:15,520
As like celebrities.

1914
01:38:15,520 --> 01:38:17,520
Probably criminals are more well known.

1915
01:38:17,520 --> 01:38:19,520
Than something like.

1916
01:38:19,520 --> 01:38:21,520
People that have changed worlds.

1917
01:38:21,520 --> 01:38:23,520
You know what I mean?

1918
01:38:23,520 --> 01:38:25,520
So I think education is massive.

1919
01:38:25,520 --> 01:38:27,520
You know like.

1920
01:38:27,520 --> 01:38:29,520
I think they should have like.

1921
01:38:29,520 --> 01:38:31,520
In education.

1922
01:38:31,520 --> 01:38:33,520
I think they should have.

1923
01:38:33,520 --> 01:38:35,520
Like life skills.

1924
01:38:35,520 --> 01:38:37,520
You know like teaching people how to survive off land.

1925
01:38:37,520 --> 01:38:39,520
Like now they do I think.

1926
01:38:39,520 --> 01:38:41,520
But like I don't know.

1927
01:38:41,520 --> 01:38:43,520
Like kids learn from being out.

1928
01:38:43,520 --> 01:38:45,520
You don't learn from.

1929
01:38:45,520 --> 01:38:47,520
All you're teaching them is that you're in a.

1930
01:38:47,520 --> 01:38:49,520
Like you go to school with us.

1931
01:38:49,520 --> 01:38:51,520
Like being in prison.

1932
01:38:51,520 --> 01:38:53,520
You're in a box.

1933
01:38:53,520 --> 01:38:55,520
You drive a box. You eat out of a box.

1934
01:38:55,520 --> 01:38:57,520
You sleep in a box. You watch a box.

1935
01:38:57,520 --> 01:38:59,520
You sit on a box. Instead of thinking outside the box.

1936
01:38:59,520 --> 01:39:01,520
And that's what I think.

1937
01:39:01,520 --> 01:39:03,520
Kids outside in sunlight.

1938
01:39:03,520 --> 01:39:05,520
Making them swim in rivers.

1939
01:39:05,520 --> 01:39:07,520
Stuff like.

1940
01:39:07,520 --> 01:39:09,520
I mean when I was a kid.

1941
01:39:09,520 --> 01:39:11,520
Like experiencing outdoors.

1942
01:39:11,520 --> 01:39:13,520
You learn more outdoors than what you would.

1943
01:39:13,520 --> 01:39:15,520
In doors. Looking at a projector or a board.

1944
01:39:15,520 --> 01:39:17,520
You can teach maths outside.

1945
01:39:17,520 --> 01:39:19,520
You can teach English outside.

1946
01:39:19,520 --> 01:39:21,520
It's like.

1947
01:39:21,520 --> 01:39:23,520
They don't even teach you how to make money.

1948
01:39:23,520 --> 01:39:25,520
When you think about it.

1949
01:39:25,520 --> 01:39:27,520
Get a job. Work for council.

1950
01:39:27,520 --> 01:39:29,520
Get a mortgage.

1951
01:39:29,520 --> 01:39:31,520
Get a car.

1952
01:39:31,520 --> 01:39:33,520
And then you die. Instead of saying right.

1953
01:39:33,520 --> 01:39:35,520
Go travel. That's how you're going to learn.

1954
01:39:35,520 --> 01:39:37,520
Through culture or.

1955
01:39:37,520 --> 01:39:39,520
Or what they call it.

1956
01:39:39,520 --> 01:39:41,520
Get them playing monopoly.

1957
01:39:41,520 --> 01:39:43,520
Learning how to make money. Buying a house. Selling a house.

1958
01:39:43,520 --> 01:39:45,520
The government.

1959
01:39:45,520 --> 01:39:47,520
Wants us to be below.

1960
01:39:47,520 --> 01:39:49,520
Path. So we can't achieve these things.

1961
01:39:49,520 --> 01:39:51,520
And like I think if I taught.

1962
01:39:51,520 --> 01:39:53,520
Like law or attraction.

1963
01:39:53,520 --> 01:39:55,520
I know it sounds like that.

1964
01:39:55,520 --> 01:39:57,520
Like whether people look at it as a positive belief.

1965
01:39:57,520 --> 01:39:59,520
Or whatever. Like law or attraction.

1966
01:39:59,520 --> 01:40:01,520
That's helped me like.

1967
01:40:01,520 --> 01:40:03,520
Believing that I can achieve stuff.

1968
01:40:03,520 --> 01:40:05,520
Or thinking about stuff. And a lot of stuff.

1969
01:40:05,520 --> 01:40:07,520
I like. Believed in.

1970
01:40:07,520 --> 01:40:09,520
And written down goals and stuff like that.

1971
01:40:09,520 --> 01:40:11,520
I've achieved. And that was just through reading a book.

1972
01:40:11,520 --> 01:40:13,520
Like law or attraction.

1973
01:40:13,520 --> 01:40:15,520
Whether it actually works. Metaphysics.

1974
01:40:15,520 --> 01:40:17,520
I don't know. But it's worked for me in my life.

1975
01:40:17,520 --> 01:40:19,520
You know what I mean. So.

1976
01:40:19,520 --> 01:40:21,520
I just think education is a big part.

1977
01:40:21,520 --> 01:40:23,520
And what from TV and shit like that.

1978
01:40:23,520 --> 01:40:25,520
And education.

1979
01:40:25,520 --> 01:40:27,520
Well you mentioned a book.

1980
01:40:27,520 --> 01:40:29,520
The first of my closing questions is normally.

1981
01:40:29,520 --> 01:40:31,520
Books to recommend. So you mentioned law or attraction.

1982
01:40:31,520 --> 01:40:33,520
Are there any other books that you have read.

1983
01:40:33,520 --> 01:40:35,520
That you love to talk about.

1984
01:40:35,520 --> 01:40:37,520
Or recommend to other people.

1985
01:40:37,520 --> 01:40:39,520
Yeah.

1986
01:40:39,520 --> 01:40:41,520
The art of war as well.

1987
01:40:41,520 --> 01:40:43,520
That's another good one.

1988
01:40:43,520 --> 01:40:45,520
But just that sort of general art of war and law or attraction.

1989
01:40:45,520 --> 01:40:47,520
Probably been my favorite two books.

1990
01:40:47,520 --> 01:40:49,520
But the art of war I use mainly.

1991
01:40:49,520 --> 01:40:51,520
Like for like combat situations.

1992
01:40:51,520 --> 01:40:53,520
But I've learnt a lot from that.

1993
01:40:53,520 --> 01:40:55,520
What about films and documentaries.

1994
01:40:55,520 --> 01:40:57,520
You mentioned the catch.

1995
01:40:57,520 --> 01:40:59,520
Catches, catch can.

1996
01:40:59,520 --> 01:41:01,520
Yeah.

1997
01:41:01,520 --> 01:41:03,520
I think.

1998
01:41:03,520 --> 01:41:05,520
Cullen Jacobs brought one out as well.

1999
01:41:05,520 --> 01:41:07,520
Either are. Catches, catch can. That was a good one.

2000
01:41:07,520 --> 01:41:09,520
Yeah.

2001
01:41:09,520 --> 01:41:11,520
Probably.

2002
01:41:11,520 --> 01:41:13,520
Catches, catch can. That was like.

2003
01:41:13,520 --> 01:41:15,520
Help me and stuff like that. I'm trying to think what else.

2004
01:41:15,520 --> 01:41:17,520
I've watched.

2005
01:41:17,520 --> 01:41:19,520
It could be anything. Any film that you've loved.

2006
01:41:19,520 --> 01:41:21,520
Probably.

2007
01:41:21,520 --> 01:41:23,520
The Smashing Machine.

2008
01:41:23,520 --> 01:41:25,520
Mark.

2009
01:41:25,520 --> 01:41:27,520
Probably one of the best documentaries I've seen.

2010
01:41:27,520 --> 01:41:29,520
And then obviously I like.

2011
01:41:29,520 --> 01:41:31,520
Obviously anything.

2012
01:41:31,520 --> 01:41:33,520
Really on Marmodar Lee.

2013
01:41:33,520 --> 01:41:35,520
I think he was a big influence on my life.

2014
01:41:35,520 --> 01:41:37,520
You know like.

2015
01:41:37,520 --> 01:41:39,520
I love everything about him.

2016
01:41:39,520 --> 01:41:41,520
Everything he did.

2017
01:41:41,520 --> 01:41:43,520
It wasn't just the champion at

2018
01:41:43,520 --> 01:41:45,520
Ring. The champion outside.

2019
01:41:45,520 --> 01:41:47,520
Ring Warner.

2020
01:41:47,520 --> 01:41:49,520
In Medma State and stuff like that.

2021
01:41:49,520 --> 01:41:51,520
I like about him. He made the stage.

2022
01:41:51,520 --> 01:41:53,520
He was just loved on

2023
01:41:53,520 --> 01:41:55,520
and off Ring.

2024
01:41:55,520 --> 01:41:57,520
Out of Ring as well.

2025
01:41:57,520 --> 01:41:59,520
Absolute master of psychological warfare too.

2026
01:41:59,520 --> 01:42:01,520
We're out of doubt.

2027
01:42:01,520 --> 01:42:03,520
He was like what I was talking about earlier.

2028
01:42:03,520 --> 01:42:05,520
You know like where

2029
01:42:05,520 --> 01:42:07,520
John Frazier over at Nassau and he like

2030
01:42:07,520 --> 01:42:09,520
almost lured you in with his character.

2031
01:42:09,520 --> 01:42:11,520
He couldn't hit his own grandma.

2032
01:42:11,520 --> 01:42:13,520
You know what I mean.

2033
01:42:13,520 --> 01:42:15,520
But he was like you're great.

2034
01:42:15,520 --> 01:42:17,520
You're great.

2035
01:42:17,520 --> 01:42:19,520
I think you've got to have

2036
01:42:19,520 --> 01:42:21,520
these characters in fighting

2037
01:42:21,520 --> 01:42:23,520
to bring it best out of

2038
01:42:23,520 --> 01:42:25,520
each other and stuff like that. Like Frazier.

2039
01:42:25,520 --> 01:42:27,520
Ali. Foreman. Ken Norton.

2040
01:42:27,520 --> 01:42:29,520
And people like that.

2041
01:42:29,520 --> 01:42:31,520
You don't get that in boxing now do you?

2042
01:42:31,520 --> 01:42:33,520
You know what I mean.

2043
01:42:33,520 --> 01:42:35,520
You don't get them golden eras like they do anymore.

2044
01:42:35,520 --> 01:42:37,520
Like what you did with Agla.

2045
01:42:37,520 --> 01:42:39,520
Things like that.

2046
01:42:39,520 --> 01:42:41,520
Now they're all dodging each other.

2047
01:42:41,520 --> 01:42:43,520
They're overpaid businessmen now aren't they?

2048
01:42:43,520 --> 01:42:47,520
The boxers. You know like they're not fighting

2049
01:42:47,520 --> 01:42:49,520
for like they're fighting for money

2050
01:42:49,520 --> 01:42:51,520
rather than glory.

2051
01:42:51,520 --> 01:42:53,520
I think there's only one like probably two

2052
01:42:53,520 --> 01:42:55,520
boxers are respecting this day and age now

2053
01:42:55,520 --> 01:42:57,520
and that's that. Yusik and

2054
01:42:57,520 --> 01:42:59,520
Lomachenko.

2055
01:42:59,520 --> 01:43:01,520
I like their value. So I think

2056
01:43:01,520 --> 01:43:03,520
for role models if you look at them two

2057
01:43:03,520 --> 01:43:05,520
they're brilliant in sport.

2058
01:43:05,520 --> 01:43:07,520
I think they're the greatest athletes there is

2059
01:43:07,520 --> 01:43:09,520
at the moment.

2060
01:43:09,520 --> 01:43:11,520
Because they're fighting for glory rather than

2061
01:43:11,520 --> 01:43:13,520
life.

2062
01:43:13,520 --> 01:43:15,520
And they're good people aren't they?

2063
01:43:15,520 --> 01:43:17,520
Good people when you're listening to them.

2064
01:43:17,520 --> 01:43:19,520
Yeah. I think that's really important.

2065
01:43:19,520 --> 01:43:21,520
I had Greg Jackson on the show a couple of years

2066
01:43:21,520 --> 01:43:23,520
ago from Albuquerque.

2067
01:43:23,520 --> 01:43:25,520
You know the trainer of some of the best MMA fighters.

2068
01:43:25,520 --> 01:43:27,520
And he

2069
01:43:27,520 --> 01:43:29,520
was talking about there was two types of

2070
01:43:29,520 --> 01:43:31,520
athletes in his gym. There were the fighters

2071
01:43:31,520 --> 01:43:33,520
and then there were the martial artists.

2072
01:43:33,520 --> 01:43:35,520
And I think that's who I've always resonated

2073
01:43:35,520 --> 01:43:37,520
with was that martial way. That person like

2074
01:43:37,520 --> 01:43:39,520
you said. It doesn't matter about the titles or

2075
01:43:39,520 --> 01:43:41,520
the purse. Obviously that counts.

2076
01:43:41,520 --> 01:43:43,520
But it's their entire lifestyle.

2077
01:43:43,520 --> 01:43:45,520
Yeah.

2078
01:43:45,520 --> 01:43:47,520
That's what I like. It's almost like

2079
01:43:47,520 --> 01:43:49,520
I like the

2080
01:43:49,520 --> 01:43:51,520
idea of living a sparring lifestyle and

2081
01:43:51,520 --> 01:43:53,520
like rolling lifestyle as I say.

2082
01:43:53,520 --> 01:43:55,520
And I like to keep

2083
01:43:55,520 --> 01:43:57,520
the tools sharp all the time. I'm not like

2084
01:43:57,520 --> 01:43:59,520
I'm not a trouble cause or anything like that.

2085
01:43:59,520 --> 01:44:01,520
But I like to be about

2086
01:44:01,520 --> 01:44:03,520
be putting situations

2087
01:44:03,520 --> 01:44:05,520
like whether it be a violent situation

2088
01:44:05,520 --> 01:44:07,520
a situation where

2089
01:44:07,520 --> 01:44:09,520
you feel scared

2090
01:44:09,520 --> 01:44:11,520
cause you grow don't you?

2091
01:44:11,520 --> 01:44:13,520
It's like in my job like

2092
01:44:13,520 --> 01:44:15,520
as that as it sounds I used to be scared

2093
01:44:15,520 --> 01:44:17,520
to death. Cause I like

2094
01:44:17,520 --> 01:44:19,520
teach like an old

2095
01:44:19,520 --> 01:44:21,520
women's class. It's got like

2096
01:44:21,520 --> 01:44:23,520
water over it. And I used

2097
01:44:23,520 --> 01:44:25,520
to be scared to death of old women.

2098
01:44:25,520 --> 01:44:27,520
Because they're horrible aren't they?

2099
01:44:27,520 --> 01:44:29,520
Not scared of saying anything to you and stuff like that.

2100
01:44:29,520 --> 01:44:31,520
And I used to have to

2101
01:44:31,520 --> 01:44:33,520
take this class. I still do it now.

2102
01:44:33,520 --> 01:44:35,520
And I have to stand in front of them

2103
01:44:35,520 --> 01:44:37,520
with 60s music on. It's almost like

2104
01:44:37,520 --> 01:44:39,520
I'm dancing for them. I feel like

2105
01:44:39,520 --> 01:44:41,520
a stripper honestly. It's horrible.

2106
01:44:41,520 --> 01:44:43,520
But

2107
01:44:43,520 --> 01:44:45,520
that class has like

2108
01:44:45,520 --> 01:44:47,520
made me so confident.

2109
01:44:47,520 --> 01:44:49,520
Cause I can stand in front of 50-60

2110
01:44:49,520 --> 01:44:51,520
people like old women who like

2111
01:44:51,520 --> 01:44:53,520
if you get out wrong, if your music's wrong

2112
01:44:53,520 --> 01:44:55,520
or you say anything wrong they're on

2113
01:44:55,520 --> 01:44:57,520
you. And it's made me so confident

2114
01:44:57,520 --> 01:44:59,520
that class because I'm putting myself

2115
01:44:59,520 --> 01:45:01,520
out basically I'm outside

2116
01:45:01,520 --> 01:45:03,520
the comfort zone. But now I've met

2117
01:45:03,520 --> 01:45:05,520
it. My comfort zone.

2118
01:45:05,520 --> 01:45:07,520
And that's what I always look for. It's like

2119
01:45:07,520 --> 01:45:09,520
I always remember

2120
01:45:09,520 --> 01:45:11,520
a martial artist called, do you

2121
01:45:11,520 --> 01:45:13,520
ever hear of Jeff Thompson?

2122
01:45:13,520 --> 01:45:15,520
Jeff Thompson? From Coventry.

2123
01:45:15,520 --> 01:45:17,520
Yeah, I actually had him on the show

2124
01:45:17,520 --> 01:45:19,520
and it was amazing because if you

2125
01:45:19,520 --> 01:45:21,520
actually know Jeff's early

2126
01:45:21,520 --> 01:45:23,520
life, he had this massive kind of

2127
01:45:23,520 --> 01:45:25,520
mental health journey. He talked about

2128
01:45:25,520 --> 01:45:27,520
all of that. And I was absolutely

2129
01:45:27,520 --> 01:45:29,520
gobsmacked because I wasn't thinking it was going to go there.

2130
01:45:29,520 --> 01:45:31,520
Well his

2131
01:45:31,520 --> 01:45:33,520
book were really good that I watched

2132
01:45:33,520 --> 01:45:35,520
my back. And I learnt a lot from that

2133
01:45:35,520 --> 01:45:37,520
and then I went on and bought his next book,

2134
01:45:37,520 --> 01:45:39,520
that Elephant and the Twig. And I liked the way

2135
01:45:39,520 --> 01:45:41,520
of his fear pyramid.

2136
01:45:41,520 --> 01:45:43,520
And that's what I've applied in life.

2137
01:45:43,520 --> 01:45:45,520
I've almost like sort of adapted

2138
01:45:45,520 --> 01:45:47,520
that fear pyramid and I use that

2139
01:45:47,520 --> 01:45:49,520
for my everyday life. And I try and

2140
01:45:49,520 --> 01:45:51,520
at least once a week

2141
01:45:51,520 --> 01:45:53,520
try and put myself

2142
01:45:53,520 --> 01:45:55,520
in a situation, not like a trouble

2143
01:45:55,520 --> 01:45:57,520
situation, a situation

2144
01:45:57,520 --> 01:45:59,520
where I feel uncomfortable and I make myself

2145
01:45:59,520 --> 01:46:01,520
do it.

2146
01:46:01,520 --> 01:46:03,520
And I try and do that once a month. I feel like

2147
01:46:03,520 --> 01:46:05,520
you grow from that. And that's probably

2148
01:46:05,520 --> 01:46:07,520
one of the books I would set to read.

2149
01:46:07,520 --> 01:46:09,520
Watch My Back or

2150
01:46:09,520 --> 01:46:11,520
Elephant and the Twig.

2151
01:46:11,520 --> 01:46:13,520
Because I think he's really good. And I

2152
01:46:13,520 --> 01:46:15,520
like the way he trained as well. Like years

2153
01:46:15,520 --> 01:46:17,520
ago, I can remember watching that

2154
01:46:17,520 --> 01:46:19,520
he did Animal Day, didn't he?

2155
01:46:19,520 --> 01:46:21,520
So Animal Day and

2156
01:46:21,520 --> 01:46:23,520
Free Sector Fight and The Fence.

2157
01:46:23,520 --> 01:46:25,520
And he's like

2158
01:46:25,520 --> 01:46:27,520
as deaf as it sounds

2159
01:46:27,520 --> 01:46:29,520
that I've learnt a lot from him

2160
01:46:29,520 --> 01:46:31,520
watching his videos. I can remember watching him on

2161
01:46:31,520 --> 01:46:33,520
VHSS. That's how long ago it

2162
01:46:33,520 --> 01:46:35,520
was. And I watched The Fence and Animal

2163
01:46:35,520 --> 01:46:37,520
Day and stuff like that. And I've always

2164
01:46:37,520 --> 01:46:39,520
applied his like

2165
01:46:39,520 --> 01:46:41,520
system to like my training

2166
01:46:41,520 --> 01:46:43,520
like when I spar sometimes

2167
01:46:43,520 --> 01:46:45,520
I'll get him sparring with like

2168
01:46:45,520 --> 01:46:47,520
not like full on headbutting

2169
01:46:47,520 --> 01:46:49,520
we'll have head guards with headbutts

2170
01:46:49,520 --> 01:46:51,520
and like ground and pound and socket

2171
01:46:51,520 --> 01:46:53,520
kick to the face and stuff like that.

2172
01:46:53,520 --> 01:46:55,520
So it's ingraining like

2173
01:46:55,520 --> 01:46:57,520
natural instincts into you.

2174
01:46:57,520 --> 01:46:59,520
Instincts are fighting into you straight away.

2175
01:47:01,520 --> 01:47:03,520
Because not everyone's born talented

2176
01:47:03,520 --> 01:47:05,520
either as well. I always think you

2177
01:47:05,520 --> 01:47:07,520
nurture as well. If you can nurture a

2178
01:47:07,520 --> 01:47:09,520
kid and teach like

2179
01:47:09,520 --> 01:47:11,520
I'm saying the good habits, whether they are good habits, socket

2180
01:47:11,520 --> 01:47:13,520
kicking to one's head but

2181
01:47:13,520 --> 01:47:15,520
like nurture it into

2182
01:47:15,520 --> 01:47:17,520
people. You can like nurture good things into people.

2183
01:47:17,520 --> 01:47:19,520
So I'm believing that.

2184
01:47:19,520 --> 01:47:21,520
I used to like the way he trained because he used to train

2185
01:47:21,520 --> 01:47:23,520
like the Animal Day.

2186
01:47:23,520 --> 01:47:25,520
And then when I was on the doors I used to use

2187
01:47:25,520 --> 01:47:27,520
friends. When I used to talk to people

2188
01:47:27,520 --> 01:47:29,520
and stuff like that. So I used

2189
01:47:29,520 --> 01:47:31,520
that a lot on the doors. And I

2190
01:47:31,520 --> 01:47:33,520
just think he's

2191
01:47:33,520 --> 01:47:35,520
in my life, if anything

2192
01:47:35,520 --> 01:47:37,520
stands out, psychology, he's helped

2193
01:47:37,520 --> 01:47:39,520
me loads him. It's probably like I say

2194
01:47:39,520 --> 01:47:41,520
probably I've met him, I think I met him

2195
01:47:41,520 --> 01:47:43,520
years ago. I went to a seminar at Huddersfield

2196
01:47:45,520 --> 01:47:47,520
and I like

2197
01:47:47,520 --> 01:47:49,520
star struck by him. I'm going back years

2198
01:47:49,520 --> 01:47:51,520
ago. I might have been about 19 years old.

2199
01:47:51,520 --> 01:47:53,520
There was a guy called Peter

2200
01:47:53,520 --> 01:47:55,520
Considine who he used to train with.

2201
01:47:55,520 --> 01:47:57,520
He was a really good guy.

2202
01:47:57,520 --> 01:47:59,520
So yeah, I've learned a lot from

2203
01:47:59,520 --> 01:48:01,520
them.

2204
01:48:01,520 --> 01:48:03,520
I highly

2205
01:48:03,520 --> 01:48:05,520
recommend his books, any of his books

2206
01:48:05,520 --> 01:48:07,520
really. He's knowledgeable, isn't he?

2207
01:48:07,520 --> 01:48:09,520
But he's almost like took his armour off now

2208
01:48:09,520 --> 01:48:11,520
hasn't he? He goes on about taking

2209
01:48:11,520 --> 01:48:13,520
his armour off.

2210
01:48:13,520 --> 01:48:15,520
He doesn't train as much and he's done

2211
01:48:15,520 --> 01:48:17,520
like spiritual,

2212
01:48:17,520 --> 01:48:19,520
philosophical route I suppose in a sense.

2213
01:48:19,520 --> 01:48:21,520
Which is not a bad thing really, is it?

2214
01:48:21,520 --> 01:48:23,520
No, well what was crazy is when

2215
01:48:23,520 --> 01:48:25,520
I had him on, because I was the same as you.

2216
01:48:25,520 --> 01:48:27,520
I was a young, you know

2217
01:48:27,520 --> 01:48:29,520
very meek kid. I didn't even have my growth spurt till

2218
01:48:29,520 --> 01:48:31,520
I was 18. So while we were going out

2219
01:48:31,520 --> 01:48:33,520
in the pubs, I was still tiny

2220
01:48:33,520 --> 01:48:35,520
and even when I grew up, I didn't grow out

2221
01:48:35,520 --> 01:48:37,520
and so on. I had this martial arts

2222
01:48:37,520 --> 01:48:39,520
but again I knew it was kind of tip-tappy.

2223
01:48:39,520 --> 01:48:41,520
It wasn't, you know, I wasn't certainly

2224
01:48:41,520 --> 01:48:43,520
dangerous by any means. And so

2225
01:48:43,520 --> 01:48:45,520
I got into that, you know, and like ask them a question

2226
01:48:45,520 --> 01:48:47,520
and then hit them in the face, you know, all these things

2227
01:48:47,520 --> 01:48:49,520
that Jeff would talk about. And it

2228
01:48:49,520 --> 01:48:51,520
came up in conversation and I was like, oh

2229
01:48:51,520 --> 01:48:53,520
I remember this guy. This is when I had the podcast

2230
01:48:53,520 --> 01:48:55,520
now. So I reached out to him and

2231
01:48:55,520 --> 01:48:57,520
I always, just like we did, you know, I always ask about early

2232
01:48:57,520 --> 01:48:59,520
life and you know, any struggles.

2233
01:48:59,520 --> 01:49:01,520
And he started talking about

2234
01:49:01,520 --> 01:49:03,520
being sexually abused by his martial arts

2235
01:49:03,520 --> 01:49:05,520
instructor and how that sent him into

2236
01:49:05,520 --> 01:49:07,520
the world of violence in the first place.

2237
01:49:07,520 --> 01:49:09,520
And then like you said, now he's so

2238
01:49:09,520 --> 01:49:11,520
you know, reflective and

2239
01:49:11,520 --> 01:49:13,520
spiritual

2240
01:49:13,520 --> 01:49:15,520
and philosophical.

2241
01:49:15,520 --> 01:49:17,520
And it became a completely different

2242
01:49:17,520 --> 01:49:19,520
conversation than I thought I was going to have.

2243
01:49:19,520 --> 01:49:21,520
But again, this is the martial way

2244
01:49:21,520 --> 01:49:23,520
like we talked about. You got the physical

2245
01:49:23,520 --> 01:49:25,520
side but then you've also got the battles in your

2246
01:49:25,520 --> 01:49:27,520
mind. Yeah.

2247
01:49:27,520 --> 01:49:29,520
Yeah, it's crazy. But

2248
01:49:29,520 --> 01:49:31,520
when you look at a lot of people who've done martial

2249
01:49:31,520 --> 01:49:33,520
arts or even like weightlifting

2250
01:49:33,520 --> 01:49:35,520
it's normally the people that's been

2251
01:49:35,520 --> 01:49:37,520
bullied or been small

2252
01:49:37,520 --> 01:49:39,520
or like that, aren't they?

2253
01:49:39,520 --> 01:49:41,520
Almost, some people it can turn into

2254
01:49:41,520 --> 01:49:43,520
absolute dickheads. Well then other people it

2255
01:49:43,520 --> 01:49:45,520
can turn into like really good people.

2256
01:49:45,520 --> 01:49:47,520
And I've even witnessed it

2257
01:49:47,520 --> 01:49:49,520
turning dickheads into

2258
01:49:49,520 --> 01:49:51,520
like good people. Like I

2259
01:49:51,520 --> 01:49:53,520
had a guy who walked, who I

2260
01:49:53,520 --> 01:49:55,520
never wanted to train. I'm not kidding.

2261
01:49:55,520 --> 01:49:57,520
He kept asking me to train him.

2262
01:49:57,520 --> 01:49:59,520
And I'd heard stories

2263
01:49:59,520 --> 01:50:01,520
about him and he was like

2264
01:50:01,520 --> 01:50:03,520
he used to sell drugs

2265
01:50:03,520 --> 01:50:05,520
or a dickhead always cracking people.

2266
01:50:05,520 --> 01:50:07,520
And this one day he came down

2267
01:50:07,520 --> 01:50:09,520
and I got talking to him

2268
01:50:09,520 --> 01:50:11,520
and I spotted drugs. I benefited

2269
01:50:11,520 --> 01:50:13,520
out. I started training

2270
01:50:13,520 --> 01:50:15,520
him and it changed him. He stopped selling

2271
01:50:15,520 --> 01:50:17,520
drugs. He wanted to take any more

2272
01:50:17,520 --> 01:50:19,520
and turn into a martial artist and I thought

2273
01:50:19,520 --> 01:50:21,520
don't worry, it changes lives though.

2274
01:50:21,520 --> 01:50:23,520
And that's

2275
01:50:23,520 --> 01:50:25,520
my thing with martial arts. That's why I like

2276
01:50:25,520 --> 01:50:27,520
teaching it because

2277
01:50:27,520 --> 01:50:29,520
even if it just helps someone

2278
01:50:29,520 --> 01:50:31,520
1%, whether it be like

2279
01:50:31,520 --> 01:50:33,520
I don't know, like people get

2280
01:50:33,520 --> 01:50:35,520
nervous. I always say for a

2281
01:50:35,520 --> 01:50:37,520
set of people to compete at least once

2282
01:50:37,520 --> 01:50:39,520
in their life at some form of martial

2283
01:50:39,520 --> 01:50:41,520
art.

2284
01:50:41,520 --> 01:50:43,520
I don't know, like whether you

2285
01:50:43,520 --> 01:50:45,520
go for a job interview and you're scared

2286
01:50:45,520 --> 01:50:47,520
to death at a job interview,

2287
01:50:47,520 --> 01:50:49,520
nothing's more scary than me, than

2288
01:50:49,520 --> 01:50:51,520
stepping into a boxing ring with

2289
01:50:51,520 --> 01:50:53,520
whether there's 200 people in there,

2290
01:50:53,520 --> 01:50:55,520
300 people, 10,000 people in there.

2291
01:50:55,520 --> 01:50:57,520
It's mentally challenging. It's same with

2292
01:50:57,520 --> 01:50:59,520
wrestling, stepping onto a wrestling mat.

2293
01:50:59,520 --> 01:51:01,520
Once you wrestle, there's that saying, once you

2294
01:51:01,520 --> 01:51:03,520
wrestle once, everything in life is easier.

2295
01:51:03,520 --> 01:51:05,520
And it puts into life

2296
01:51:05,520 --> 01:51:07,520
these little shitty things that we get worried

2297
01:51:07,520 --> 01:51:09,520
about, like a job interview, a

2298
01:51:09,520 --> 01:51:11,520
driving lesson, an exam, but then nothing.

2299
01:51:11,520 --> 01:51:13,520
You know, like

2300
01:51:13,520 --> 01:51:15,520
if you do something worse, you're trying to

2301
01:51:15,520 --> 01:51:17,520
basically knock me out in front

2302
01:51:17,520 --> 01:51:19,520
of people. It makes you realize, doesn't

2303
01:51:19,520 --> 01:51:21,520
it? So I think it's changed

2304
01:51:21,520 --> 01:51:23,520
my life a lot really.

2305
01:51:23,520 --> 01:51:25,520
And that's why I try and

2306
01:51:25,520 --> 01:51:27,520
put back into community and help others work.

2307
01:51:27,520 --> 01:51:29,520
Yeah, I think it was one of

2308
01:51:29,520 --> 01:51:31,520
the graces saying that if every, you know,

2309
01:51:31,520 --> 01:51:33,520
they taught martial arts, they taught jiu-jitsu in every school

2310
01:51:33,520 --> 01:51:35,520
that bullying would go down. And they weren't

2311
01:51:35,520 --> 01:51:37,520
saying that because everyone would be tough.

2312
01:51:37,520 --> 01:51:39,520
It was the opposite. A lot of these

2313
01:51:39,520 --> 01:51:41,520
kids that were bullying because they were scared

2314
01:51:41,520 --> 01:51:43,520
would be humbled and they'd realize

2315
01:51:43,520 --> 01:51:45,520
the teamwork and the respect that it takes

2316
01:51:45,520 --> 01:51:47,520
to work with a person. And you just

2317
01:51:47,520 --> 01:51:49,520
have a kinder school,

2318
01:51:49,520 --> 01:51:51,520
a kinder community.

2319
01:51:51,520 --> 01:51:53,520
Yeah, it does. But it's like now

2320
01:51:53,520 --> 01:51:55,520
when I look at things now, I like think

2321
01:51:55,520 --> 01:51:57,520
I weigh situations up.

2322
01:51:57,520 --> 01:51:59,520
I like think if I hit someone, they could fall down there

2323
01:51:59,520 --> 01:52:01,520
and like potentially

2324
01:52:01,520 --> 01:52:03,520
die. Makes you like realize

2325
01:52:03,520 --> 01:52:05,520
how easy it is to kill someone.

2326
01:52:05,520 --> 01:52:07,520
Whereas then if I think, well, if I

2327
01:52:07,520 --> 01:52:09,520
arms, I can take his back, choke him unconscious,

2328
01:52:09,520 --> 01:52:11,520
put him in a recovering position

2329
01:52:11,520 --> 01:52:13,520
and probably shave him from getting an absolute beating off

2330
01:52:13,520 --> 01:52:15,520
someone else. And it humbles them.

2331
01:52:15,520 --> 01:52:17,520
So like I just think, I think everyone

2332
01:52:17,520 --> 01:52:19,520
should learn it. But then

2333
01:52:19,520 --> 01:52:21,520
like we've been saying earlier,

2334
01:52:21,520 --> 01:52:23,520
that martial arts is

2335
01:52:23,520 --> 01:52:25,520
to me, it's not just a sport.

2336
01:52:25,520 --> 01:52:27,520
It's a way of life for me.

2337
01:52:27,520 --> 01:52:29,520
But I think, I think you've

2338
01:52:29,520 --> 01:52:31,520
got to experience more than one martial art.

2339
01:52:31,520 --> 01:52:33,520
You know, like

2340
01:52:33,520 --> 01:52:35,520
be humbled in them all, really. You know, like

2341
01:52:35,520 --> 01:52:37,520
and that's why I think

2342
01:52:37,520 --> 01:52:39,520
I think my next journey is going to be like

2343
01:52:39,520 --> 01:52:41,520
the weapon side of things.

2344
01:52:41,520 --> 01:52:43,520
You know, like, so I've never done that.

2345
01:52:43,520 --> 01:52:45,520
You know, like I know a lot

2346
01:52:45,520 --> 01:52:47,520
of it will probably translate well

2347
01:52:47,520 --> 01:52:49,520
to wrestling or boxing or Thai boxing.

2348
01:52:49,520 --> 01:52:51,520
But that's my next thing. That's my

2349
01:52:51,520 --> 01:52:53,520
next venture. I want to go on. I want to learn like

2350
01:52:53,520 --> 01:52:55,520
the knife arts or the stick arts.

2351
01:52:55,520 --> 01:52:57,520
Because there's going to come a time, isn't there, where someone's

2352
01:52:57,520 --> 01:52:59,520
going to pull a stick on you. And I've had it.

2353
01:52:59,520 --> 01:53:01,520
I've had people try and stab me

2354
01:53:01,520 --> 01:53:03,520
and pull stuff out on me and stuff like that.

2355
01:53:03,520 --> 01:53:05,520
So I've had some like

2356
01:53:05,520 --> 01:53:07,520
scary situations on the doors, really.

2357
01:53:07,520 --> 01:53:09,520
So that's scary.

2358
01:53:09,520 --> 01:53:11,520
So it makes you realize.

2359
01:53:11,520 --> 01:53:13,520
Absolutely.

2360
01:53:13,520 --> 01:53:15,520
Yeah, I mean, that's what it's interesting. Even I've done

2361
01:53:15,520 --> 01:53:17,520
martial arts class

2362
01:53:17,520 --> 01:53:19,520
with Tim Kennedy, the UFC fighter.

2363
01:53:19,520 --> 01:53:21,520
He's a Green Beret as well. And there

2364
01:53:21,520 --> 01:53:23,520
was the shooting side and there was the combative

2365
01:53:23,520 --> 01:53:25,520
side. And you're doing a jiu-jitsu

2366
01:53:25,520 --> 01:53:27,520
and all of a sudden they throw a knife or a gun, obviously

2367
01:53:27,520 --> 01:53:29,520
a blue gun, not a real gun, in the mix.

2368
01:53:29,520 --> 01:53:31,520
And you're scrambling for it. It's a completely

2369
01:53:31,520 --> 01:53:33,520
different dynamic now because you're not

2370
01:53:33,520 --> 01:53:35,520
thinking about the person. You're

2371
01:53:35,520 --> 01:53:37,520
thinking about the limb that's holding that

2372
01:53:37,520 --> 01:53:39,520
thing that if they just point it at you

2373
01:53:39,520 --> 01:53:41,520
or stick it in you, it's completely

2374
01:53:41,520 --> 01:53:43,520
changing the fight then.

2375
01:53:43,520 --> 01:53:45,520
It changes dynamics.

2376
01:53:45,520 --> 01:53:47,520
It's like I'll get lads sparring in shed.

2377
01:53:47,520 --> 01:53:49,520
So like say if I get four lads,

2378
01:53:49,520 --> 01:53:51,520
I'll get one lad verse three.

2379
01:53:51,520 --> 01:53:53,520
So I'll make them learn to

2380
01:53:53,520 --> 01:53:55,520
because it's in closed room as well.

2381
01:53:55,520 --> 01:53:57,520
I make them spar. So not only

2382
01:53:57,520 --> 01:53:59,520
that, it learns about how to use other people

2383
01:53:59,520 --> 01:54:01,520
as shields.

2384
01:54:01,520 --> 01:54:03,520
It learns you don't have to make

2385
01:54:03,520 --> 01:54:05,520
different dynamics. You're moving about boxing

2386
01:54:05,520 --> 01:54:07,520
or rolling around on the floor. It makes you

2387
01:54:07,520 --> 01:54:09,520
realise about

2388
01:54:09,520 --> 01:54:11,520
your environment.

2389
01:54:11,520 --> 01:54:13,520
Like the wall behind you, that might stop you going to the floor

2390
01:54:13,520 --> 01:54:15,520
or how to escape to a door

2391
01:54:15,520 --> 01:54:17,520
or how to get out. And I think it just

2392
01:54:17,520 --> 01:54:19,520
adds different dynamics to it. And that's

2393
01:54:19,520 --> 01:54:21,520
why in my gym as definitely

2394
01:54:21,520 --> 01:54:23,520
sounds like

2395
01:54:23,520 --> 01:54:25,520
I alter surroundings.

2396
01:54:25,520 --> 01:54:27,520
I'll have a punch bag

2397
01:54:27,520 --> 01:54:29,520
up or I'll leave a mat

2398
01:54:29,520 --> 01:54:31,520
out or a set of boxing gloves

2399
01:54:31,520 --> 01:54:33,520
on the floor or something.

2400
01:54:33,520 --> 01:54:35,520
So when you're sparring then it makes you

2401
01:54:35,520 --> 01:54:37,520
wary of the situation behind

2402
01:54:37,520 --> 01:54:39,520
you. You can either use it

2403
01:54:39,520 --> 01:54:41,520
against you or it can be used against you.

2404
01:54:41,520 --> 01:54:43,520
So if someone's a better boxer than me,

2405
01:54:43,520 --> 01:54:45,520
I put them on the wall, take them down the wall and put them on the wall.

2406
01:54:45,520 --> 01:54:47,520
Or if there's like

2407
01:54:47,520 --> 01:54:49,520
a lift with some mats,

2408
01:54:49,520 --> 01:54:51,520
if I take them down onto that,

2409
01:54:51,520 --> 01:54:53,520
I see it as a corty, taking them down

2410
01:54:53,520 --> 01:54:55,520
over a corty. So it learns you to use

2411
01:54:55,520 --> 01:54:57,520
certain environmental

2412
01:54:57,520 --> 01:54:59,520
parts

2413
01:54:59,520 --> 01:55:01,520
against them or a punch bag that could be

2414
01:55:01,520 --> 01:55:03,520
a person pressed against them and stuff

2415
01:55:03,520 --> 01:55:05,520
like that. Or put them into a corner and

2416
01:55:05,520 --> 01:55:07,520
learn them how to fight in a corner. So I don't like a drill

2417
01:55:07,520 --> 01:55:09,520
called, I think boxers use it,

2418
01:55:09,520 --> 01:55:11,520
I think they call it the Mexican corner.

2419
01:55:11,520 --> 01:55:13,520
And basically they'll put you in a corner

2420
01:55:13,520 --> 01:55:15,520
and you'll get a fresh, it's almost like

2421
01:55:15,520 --> 01:55:17,520
shark tank sparring now, get a lad

2422
01:55:17,520 --> 01:55:19,520
that's a rate, you've got to stay in that corner

2423
01:55:19,520 --> 01:55:21,520
and I'm going to throw a fresh person

2424
01:55:21,520 --> 01:55:23,520
in at you every time and they're just sparring

2425
01:55:23,520 --> 01:55:25,520
in that corner and the next man goes in

2426
01:55:25,520 --> 01:55:27,520
but you're trapped in that corner. And it learns you how

2427
01:55:27,520 --> 01:55:29,520
to fight in like a trapped environment

2428
01:55:29,520 --> 01:55:31,520
with straight shots or boxing

2429
01:55:31,520 --> 01:55:33,520
or like it breaks

2430
01:55:33,520 --> 01:55:35,520
you down into games. But then when they've been there

2431
01:55:35,520 --> 01:55:37,520
it makes them realise, I think, oh I've been here

2432
01:55:37,520 --> 01:55:39,520
before, if it happens in real life, you think, well

2433
01:55:39,520 --> 01:55:41,520
I've been in this stress, pressure

2434
01:55:41,520 --> 01:55:43,520
tested environment before

2435
01:55:43,520 --> 01:55:45,520
for four minutes or five

2436
01:55:45,520 --> 01:55:47,520
minutes or six minutes and that's how you develop

2437
01:55:47,520 --> 01:55:49,520
in it. And that's what I try

2438
01:55:49,520 --> 01:55:51,520
and do with people

2439
01:55:51,520 --> 01:55:53,520
how to pressure test them in certain areas

2440
01:55:53,520 --> 01:55:55,520
if there's shit in one area, I'll put them in it

2441
01:55:55,520 --> 01:55:57,520
it's like I had a guy

2442
01:55:57,520 --> 01:55:59,520
who was boxing, unreal.

2443
01:55:59,520 --> 01:56:01,520
Give him a boxing ring, he just

2444
01:56:01,520 --> 01:56:03,520
boxed his head off, he couldn't get an earring, but put him in a small

2445
01:56:03,520 --> 01:56:05,520
space, corner him

2446
01:56:05,520 --> 01:56:07,520
and beat him up. And

2447
01:56:07,520 --> 01:56:09,520
I put it, I

2448
01:56:09,520 --> 01:56:11,520
took him from a boxing ring to my gym

2449
01:56:11,520 --> 01:56:13,520
and it says, it

2450
01:56:13,520 --> 01:56:15,520
learns him how to fight

2451
01:56:15,520 --> 01:56:17,520
and close and things like that. And it did

2452
01:56:17,520 --> 01:56:19,520
same with me really, because I kept

2453
01:56:19,520 --> 01:56:21,520
getting tucked down on the wall and stuff like that

2454
01:56:21,520 --> 01:56:23,520
and learned how to use wall against people and stuff

2455
01:56:23,520 --> 01:56:25,520
like that. So I think that, like

2456
01:56:25,520 --> 01:56:27,520
what Jeff Thompson did, like pressure testing in

2457
01:56:27,520 --> 01:56:29,520
certain areas and things like that

2458
01:56:29,520 --> 01:56:31,520
I think it's awesome. And like, you show it

2459
01:56:31,520 --> 01:56:33,520
weapons, changes dynamics

2460
01:56:33,520 --> 01:56:35,520
and I think that's the route, well

2461
01:56:35,520 --> 01:56:37,520
I know it's route I'm going to go down for some of

2462
01:56:37,520 --> 01:56:39,520
I like to rub a knife and start training with that

2463
01:56:39,520 --> 01:56:41,520
like grappling on floor with it

2464
01:56:41,520 --> 01:56:43,520
because I reckon

2465
01:56:43,520 --> 01:56:45,520
a lot of it can be self taught now

2466
01:56:45,520 --> 01:56:47,520
because the internet's that good now, you can go on

2467
01:56:47,520 --> 01:56:49,520
and just type in knife self-defense

2468
01:56:49,520 --> 01:56:51,520
or knife attacks and you can learn

2469
01:56:51,520 --> 01:56:53,520
it now, can't you? Like, well there's years ago

2470
01:56:53,520 --> 01:56:55,520
I used to have to sort it out, I used to have

2471
01:56:55,520 --> 01:56:57,520
to go to Manchester or Thailand or

2472
01:56:57,520 --> 01:56:59,520
like travel about

2473
01:56:59,520 --> 01:57:01,520
now, everything's click of the button, isn't it?

2474
01:57:01,520 --> 01:57:03,520
You can like, you can be taught

2475
01:57:03,520 --> 01:57:05,520
by some of the best people in the world

2476
01:57:05,520 --> 01:57:07,520
online, just by looking online

2477
01:57:07,520 --> 01:57:09,520
looking at the seminar. So I think

2478
01:57:09,520 --> 01:57:11,520
that's going to be my next thing, weapon

2479
01:57:11,520 --> 01:57:13,520
weapon, like

2480
01:57:13,520 --> 01:57:15,520
definitely. Absolutely. Well if you already

2481
01:57:15,520 --> 01:57:17,520
got the grappling as well, I mean for example

2482
01:57:17,520 --> 01:57:19,520
you know, the knife

2483
01:57:19,520 --> 01:57:21,520
or gun one, it's a lot of kimura attacks

2484
01:57:21,520 --> 01:57:23,520
really, you're trying to control that

2485
01:57:23,520 --> 01:57:25,520
so you've got the tools you've already got, you're just

2486
01:57:25,520 --> 01:57:27,520
changing the focus and the scramble

2487
01:57:27,520 --> 01:57:29,520
from the overall person

2488
01:57:29,520 --> 01:57:31,520
to seemingly that one limb now

2489
01:57:31,520 --> 01:57:33,520
is what you're really chasing.

2490
01:57:33,520 --> 01:57:35,520
Yeah, yeah

2491
01:57:35,520 --> 01:57:37,520
I don't know, I look forward

2492
01:57:37,520 --> 01:57:39,520
to it as well, so I'm probably going to get inspired

2493
01:57:39,520 --> 01:57:41,520
and be like some bingo dabbers

2494
01:57:41,520 --> 01:57:43,520
and say I'm the time to get stabbed

2495
01:57:43,520 --> 01:57:45,520
because I do know as well like

2496
01:57:45,520 --> 01:57:47,520
like there's a guy

2497
01:57:47,520 --> 01:57:49,520
who I train actually, who's coming over

2498
01:57:49,520 --> 01:57:51,520
to train, well he's coming over to train me, he's really good

2499
01:57:51,520 --> 01:57:53,520
with knives so I'm going to pick his brain

2500
01:57:53,520 --> 01:57:55,520
he used to train with like

2501
01:57:55,520 --> 01:57:57,520
he used to train with actual knives, he got stabbed

2502
01:57:57,520 --> 01:57:59,520
and he stopped doing it now, he trains with rubber knives

2503
01:57:59,520 --> 01:58:01,520
but he used to train all like

2504
01:58:01,520 --> 01:58:03,520
military and stuff like that

2505
01:58:03,520 --> 01:58:05,520
so I'm

2506
01:58:05,520 --> 01:58:07,520
I think I'm training back, he's coming up from London

2507
01:58:07,520 --> 01:58:09,520
for me to train him so we'll catch

2508
01:58:09,520 --> 01:58:11,520
so I'm going to pick his brain

2509
01:58:11,520 --> 01:58:13,520
about him, get some

2510
01:58:13,520 --> 01:58:15,520
ideas off him

2511
01:58:15,520 --> 01:58:17,520
I think you've got to learn a bit of everything

2512
01:58:17,520 --> 01:58:19,520
from this day and age, haven't you?

2513
01:58:19,520 --> 01:58:21,520
100%

2514
01:58:21,520 --> 01:58:23,520
Well you mentioned Geoff Thompson, is there

2515
01:58:23,520 --> 01:58:25,520
a person that you'd recommend to come on this

2516
01:58:25,520 --> 01:58:27,520
podcast as a guest to speak

2517
01:58:27,520 --> 01:58:29,520
to the first responders, military and

2518
01:58:29,520 --> 01:58:31,520
associated professions of the world?

2519
01:58:31,520 --> 01:58:33,520
I could name a few actually

2520
01:58:33,520 --> 01:58:35,520
I'm not sure

2521
01:58:35,520 --> 01:58:37,520
I think

2522
01:58:37,520 --> 01:58:39,520
Andy Cooper

2523
01:58:39,520 --> 01:58:41,520
who's like my old trainer

2524
01:58:41,520 --> 01:58:43,520
he's like

2525
01:58:43,520 --> 01:58:45,520
ex-Darman and stuff

2526
01:58:45,520 --> 01:58:47,520
like that, he was my old trainer

2527
01:58:47,520 --> 01:58:49,520
Neil Wayne

2528
01:58:49,520 --> 01:58:51,520
another one

2529
01:58:51,520 --> 01:58:53,520
UFC, big heavyweight

2530
01:58:53,520 --> 01:58:55,520
guy, he's like done with door

2531
01:58:55,520 --> 01:58:57,520
work and been in some sticky situations

2532
01:58:57,520 --> 01:58:59,520
and stuff like that, he's got some brilliant

2533
01:58:59,520 --> 01:59:01,520
stars in as well like

2534
01:59:01,520 --> 01:59:03,520
he's a big

2535
01:59:03,520 --> 01:59:05,520
he's like probably the most gifted

2536
01:59:05,520 --> 01:59:07,520
everywhere I've ever met, he's like

2537
01:59:07,520 --> 01:59:09,520
20 stone athlete

2538
01:59:09,520 --> 01:59:11,520
he looks like a powerlifter

2539
01:59:11,520 --> 01:59:13,520
and he's got

2540
01:59:13,520 --> 01:59:15,520
if you google Neil Old School Wayne

2541
01:59:15,520 --> 01:59:17,520
have a look at some of his fights

2542
01:59:17,520 --> 01:59:19,520
he fought Shane Cowan

2543
01:59:19,520 --> 01:59:21,520
for his first fight in the UFC

2544
01:59:21,520 --> 01:59:23,520
obviously he couldn't wrestle then

2545
01:59:23,520 --> 01:59:25,520
but now he can wrestle but

2546
01:59:25,520 --> 01:59:27,520
he's got dynamite in his hands

2547
01:59:27,520 --> 01:59:29,520
it's weird how he's gone

2548
01:59:29,520 --> 01:59:31,520
because he was like

2549
01:59:31,520 --> 01:59:33,520
he's going through that phase

2550
01:59:33,520 --> 01:59:35,520
we've just been on that with Jeff Thompson

2551
01:59:35,520 --> 01:59:37,520
where

2552
01:59:37,520 --> 01:59:39,520
he was really aggressive

2553
01:59:39,520 --> 01:59:41,520
almost like angry to the world

2554
01:59:41,520 --> 01:59:43,520
and now he's gone full circle

2555
01:59:43,520 --> 01:59:45,520
he's gone really spiritual

2556
01:59:45,520 --> 01:59:47,520
and you know like

2557
01:59:47,520 --> 01:59:49,520
teaching kids

2558
01:59:49,520 --> 01:59:51,520
BKB and stuff like that

2559
01:59:51,520 --> 01:59:53,520
and boxing and stuff like that

2560
01:59:53,520 --> 01:59:55,520
because he does a lot of way like

2561
01:59:55,520 --> 01:59:57,520
BKB guys

2562
01:59:57,520 --> 01:59:59,520
who do all the medical, boxing and stuff like that

2563
01:59:59,520 --> 02:00:01,520
so he's just opened the stable

2564
02:00:01,520 --> 02:00:03,520
up teaching that

2565
02:00:03,520 --> 02:00:05,520
but he's really knowledgeable with boxing

2566
02:00:05,520 --> 02:00:07,520
well at martial arts

2567
02:00:07,520 --> 02:00:09,520
but to look at him he looks like a silver like gorilla

2568
02:00:09,520 --> 02:00:11,520
but he's like

2569
02:00:11,520 --> 02:00:13,520
he is really skillful

2570
02:00:13,520 --> 02:00:15,520
he's got like really good football player

2571
02:00:15,520 --> 02:00:17,520
everything to shock you

2572
02:00:17,520 --> 02:00:19,520
him or Andy Cooper I think would be a great

2573
02:00:19,520 --> 02:00:21,520
talk, quite inspiring both of them

2574
02:00:21,520 --> 02:00:23,520
beautiful

2575
02:00:23,520 --> 02:00:25,520
but if you have a look at Andy Cooper

2576
02:00:25,520 --> 02:00:27,520
as well like

2577
02:00:27,520 --> 02:00:29,520
there will be some old fights with him

2578
02:00:29,520 --> 02:00:31,520
like when he was fighting on YouTube

2579
02:00:31,520 --> 02:00:33,520
he's had some actual wars

2580
02:00:33,520 --> 02:00:35,520
and Neil Wayne

2581
02:00:35,520 --> 02:00:37,520
but Neil Wayne has got dynamite in his hands

2582
02:00:37,520 --> 02:00:39,520
he's like one of my training partners

2583
02:00:39,520 --> 02:00:41,520
and like sparware and stuff like that

2584
02:00:41,520 --> 02:00:43,520
I'll teach him grapple

2585
02:00:43,520 --> 02:00:45,520
but it will be interesting to have on

2586
02:00:45,520 --> 02:00:47,520
Brilliant, I appreciate it

2587
02:00:47,520 --> 02:00:49,520
we'll have to try and make that work, thank you

2588
02:00:49,520 --> 02:00:51,520
yeah, I'll try and have them

2589
02:00:51,520 --> 02:00:53,520
Alright well the last question before I make sure everyone knows where to find you

2590
02:00:53,520 --> 02:00:55,520
because obviously you have a lot of

2591
02:00:55,520 --> 02:00:57,520
amazing videos on Instagram for example

2592
02:00:57,520 --> 02:00:59,520
what do you do to decompress?

2593
02:00:59,520 --> 02:01:01,520
we talked about sleep is not one of those things

2594
02:01:01,520 --> 02:01:03,520
so what do you do to decompress?

2595
02:01:03,520 --> 02:01:05,520
Errr

2596
02:01:05,520 --> 02:01:07,520
what I think, chill out

2597
02:01:07,520 --> 02:01:09,520
yeah

2598
02:01:09,520 --> 02:01:11,520
yeah

2599
02:01:11,520 --> 02:01:13,520
you know from a train

2600
02:01:13,520 --> 02:01:15,520
that's like chilling out

2601
02:01:15,520 --> 02:01:17,520
chilling out and er

2602
02:01:17,520 --> 02:01:19,520
I like walking and stuff, I like going out and walking

2603
02:01:19,520 --> 02:01:21,520
with my dog and stuff like that

2604
02:01:21,520 --> 02:01:23,520
that's probably like getting out in nature

2605
02:01:23,520 --> 02:01:25,520
I even like training at night

2606
02:01:25,520 --> 02:01:27,520
I spar outside and stuff like that

2607
02:01:27,520 --> 02:01:29,520
so like changing my environment

2608
02:01:29,520 --> 02:01:31,520
I like being outside

2609
02:01:31,520 --> 02:01:33,520
I suppose that's probably a big thing for me being outside

2610
02:01:33,520 --> 02:01:35,520
because most of the time I mean

2611
02:01:35,520 --> 02:01:37,520
I shed training people or in the gym

2612
02:01:37,520 --> 02:01:39,520
so when I'm actually outside

2613
02:01:39,520 --> 02:01:41,520
that like chills me out and stuff like that

2614
02:01:41,520 --> 02:01:43,520
Beautiful

2615
02:01:43,520 --> 02:01:45,520
well for people listening, I'm sure most people aren't going to be local

2616
02:01:45,520 --> 02:01:47,520
but if they wanted to actually

2617
02:01:47,520 --> 02:01:49,520
you know try and train with you in person

2618
02:01:49,520 --> 02:01:51,520
or more likely you know they're more remote

2619
02:01:51,520 --> 02:01:53,520
and just want to follow you online

2620
02:01:53,520 --> 02:01:55,520
where are the best places?

2621
02:01:55,520 --> 02:01:57,520
Errr probably

2622
02:01:57,520 --> 02:01:59,520
errr

2623
02:01:59,520 --> 02:02:01,520
Instagram which obviously it's Ian the Mongrel

2624
02:02:01,520 --> 02:02:03,520
Jones

2625
02:02:03,520 --> 02:02:05,520
on Instagram and then

2626
02:02:05,520 --> 02:02:07,520
Ian Jones on Facebook

2627
02:02:07,520 --> 02:02:09,520
as well, contact me at the local

2628
02:02:09,520 --> 02:02:11,520
just contact me on Facebook

2629
02:02:11,520 --> 02:02:13,520
Brilliant, well Ian I want to thank you so much

2630
02:02:13,520 --> 02:02:15,520
we've been chatting for the full two hours

2631
02:02:15,520 --> 02:02:17,520
we could talk a lot longer but it's

2632
02:02:17,520 --> 02:02:19,520
been an amazing conversation

2633
02:02:19,520 --> 02:02:21,520
and hearing you know your journey from

2634
02:02:21,520 --> 02:02:23,520
a young lad in a mining town to

2635
02:02:23,520 --> 02:02:25,520
where you are now as a multiple world champion

2636
02:02:25,520 --> 02:02:27,520
so I want to thank you so so much

2637
02:02:27,520 --> 02:02:29,520
for being so generous with your time today

2638
02:02:29,520 --> 02:02:31,520
and coming on the Behind the Shield podcast

2639
02:02:31,520 --> 02:02:33,520
Thank you for having me

2640
02:02:33,520 --> 02:02:49,520
I was a pleasure