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I'm extremely excited to announce a brand new sponsor for the Behind the Shield podcast

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that is Transcend.

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Now for many of you listening, you are probably working the same brutal shifts that I did

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for 14 years.

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Suffering from sleep deprivation, body composition challenges, mental health challenges, libido,

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hair loss, etc.

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Now when it comes to the world of hormone replacement and peptide therapy, what I have

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seen is a shift from doctors telling us that we were within normal limits, which was definitely

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incorrect all the way to the other way now where men's clinics are popping up left, right

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and center.

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So I myself wanted to find a reputable company that would do an analysis of my physiology

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and then offer supplementations without ramming, for example, hormone replacement therapy down

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my throat.

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Now I came across Transcend because they have an altruistic arm and they were a big reason

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why the 7X project I was a part of was able to proceed because of their generous donations.

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They also have the Transcend foundations where they are actually putting military and first

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responders through some of their therapies at no cost to the individual.

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So my own personal journey so far filled in the online form, went to Quest, got blood

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drawn and a few days later I'm talking to one of their wellness professionals as they

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guide me through my results and the supplementation that they suggest.

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In my case specifically, because I transitioned out the fire service five years ago and been

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very diligent with my health, my testosterone was actually in a good place.

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So I went down the peptide route and some other supplements to try and maximize my physiology

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knowing full well the damage that 14 years of shift work has done.

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Now I also want to underline because I think this is very important that each of the therapies

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they offer, they will talk about the pros and cons.

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So for example, a lot of first responders in shift work, our testosterone will be low,

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but sometimes nutrition, exercise and sleep can offset that on its own.

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So this company is not going to try and push you down a path, especially if it's one that

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you can't come back from.

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So whether it's libido, brain fog, inflammation, gut health, performance, sleep, this is definitely

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one of the most powerful tools in the toolbox.

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So to learn more, go to transcendcompany.com or listen to episode 808 of the Behind the

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Shield podcast with founder Ernie Colling.

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Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast.

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As always, my name is James Gearing and this week it is my absolute honor to welcome on

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the show US Marine veteran firefighter and humanitarian Brian McGinnis.

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Now we discussed a host of topics from his journey into the military, being part of the

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Iraqi invasion, his transition into the fire service, some notable calls, his family connection

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to Palestine, the humanitarian trip he took recently to the West Bank, witnessing the

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forcible removal of occupants from their lands, how the unifying of our voices can bring a

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ceasefire in Gaza and so much more.

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Now before we get to this incredibly important conversation, as I say every week, please

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just take a moment, go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe to the show,

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leave feedback and leave a rating.

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Every single 5 star rating truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making it easier for

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others to find.

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And this is a free library of almost 1000 episodes now.

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So all I ask in return is that you help share these incredible men and women stories so

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I can get them to every single person on planet earth who needs to hear them.

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So with that being said, I introduce to you Brian McGinnis.

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Enjoy.

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Well, Brian, I want to start by saying two things.

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Thank you to our mutual friend, Dina, for connecting us.

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And secondly, I want to welcome you onto the Behind the Shield podcast today.

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Thank you very much.

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It's great to be here.

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So where on planet earth are we finding you this morning?

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I'm in Raleigh, I'm in Wendell, North Carolina, just outside of Raleigh, North Carolina.

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Beautiful.

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Well, I would love to start the very beginning of your journey.

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Tell me where you were born and tell me a little bit about your family dynamic, what

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your parents did, how many siblings?

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I was born in Quincy, Illinois, the last of four children, the youngest spoiled, taken

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care of.

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My dad was a general surgeon.

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So he did well.

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He worked very hard for himself and he was an old school doctor who took time with each

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patient.

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He would stop in the middle of surgery and kneel and pray in the corner of the room.

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He was a very well-respected and good man.

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And so I grew up in Quincy in that situation.

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It's a smaller town.

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So I feel like no matter who you are, you're mixed in with the general crowd.

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And I was really thankful for my growing up years, school years, and really value all

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my friendships that I had and play sports, wrestled and played football.

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And then I went off to the Marines after high school and graduated on a Friday or Saturday

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and went to Marines on Monday.

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Going back to your dad for a second, two things.

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Firstly, was he a kind of nine to five surgeon?

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Was he only doing surgeries in a day or was he one of the ones that might have been doing

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it in the wee hours of the morning?

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Part of why we moved in a house we were was it was just a straight shot to the hospital.

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He was always on emergency calls.

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He even took care of a person that fell straight out of the sky because in Quincy, Illinois,

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the International Skydiving Convention used to be held.

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And so it was wild.

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The whole world, people from all around the world would descend on small town Quincy,

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Illinois.

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Literally.

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We had a large airport.

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And yes, literally.

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And one person fell out of the sky.

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The person hit the ground and somehow he survived.

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His face was just, it wasn't broken.

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His skull was just shattered.

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And my dad performed a tracheotomy and the man made a recovery.

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But my dad did all kinds of definitely emergency operations and he was a really good man and

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I really love him and he did his work in a very caring way.

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So yeah.

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Well, the reason I asked, first he sounds incredible and obviously I'm sure that was

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probably an inspiration for the EMS side of your journey too.

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But there's an amazing book I read before I wrote my one called When Breath Becomes

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Air, I think it was, and it was a neurosurgeon.

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He was very early in his career going through school and he was writing it.

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I think it was in his residency and he got cancer.

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And you look at the history, especially of surgical residents, and there were these crazy

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work hours, work weeks that they would do.

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And then actually the origin story, a lot of people don't know this, is there was a

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surgeon, I mean like a hundred years ago, who kind of started doing that.

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He would be up for hours and hours so these students would have to, felt like they had

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to be up as well.

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Well, retroactively we realized that he was a complete cocaine addict and that's why he

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was awake for hours and hours and days and days.

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But that stuck, the way we've always done it, which we suffer from in the fire service.

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But I wonder now a lot of these surgical professionals, including the author of this book who got

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a brain tumor and he died, I think he was not even 30 years old.

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You have to ask yourself the sleep deprivation, the same thing that we suffer from, we see

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so much disease in our profession, how much of that attributes to deaths in the medical

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field as well?

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Oh my gosh.

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I remember having a martial arts instructor who was also in his internship or in a, I

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think might've been a neurological field as well.

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And he was talking about, you know, practice with nothing compared to a 72 hour long shifts

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at the hospital.

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And I think most firefighter types are into that, you know, those folk tales of long hours

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and hard work and grit.

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Yet we also know the benefits of sleep and how important it is to our health.

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And so I do think it's good to, you know, address this issue and be smart about it.

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And when it comes time to, for necessity sake, stay awake and work hard for long times, yeah,

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you know, of course, but for the long haul, I do think rest and sleep is important and

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it should be highly prioritized in our fields and to help us.

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Absolutely.

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Well, I mean, if you go into that skydiver scenario, what kind of person do you want

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working on your tracheotomy and reconstructing your face?

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You want someone who hasn't slept for three days or do you want someone that's fresh?

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Exactly.

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I agree.

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Well, what about as well when you talk to him, obviously you, we get a very raw perspective

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of the health of the world mentally, physically, that most people don't.

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This is why my most recent book, kinder, I just released is hopefully going to let people

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see through our eyes.

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But the, you know, the obesity epidemic and the mental health crisis and some of these

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other things and the escalating violence as well.

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Have you had a conversation with your father as far as medicine and just the well-being

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of the American people overall?

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Unfortunately, my father passed away in 2003, so I haven't spoke to him for a long time.

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It's okay.

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It's okay.

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It's, but I haven't been, I have not been able to obviously spoke to him about these

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issues.

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I really wish I could, you know, pick his brain on issues because I was 20, 21 when

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he passed, you know, to be honest, barely an adult or not very experienced, to be honest

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in the world.

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So I have so many questions now that I'm 43 that I so wish I could pick his brain about.

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But I about it also about the medical world and those things too.

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I would really, it would be interesting to hear.

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But what did you lose him to?

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Pneumonia.

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You know, doctors are the worst patients.

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He put himself in bed.

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Then when he finally got into the hospital after a week of being in bed, they treated

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him for bacterial and viral and it turned out to be fungal pneumonia.

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And so the treatment for another week was doing nothing.

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So by that time it overtook him and he never recovered.

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I'm so sorry to hear that.

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Thanks, man.

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Thank you.

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Well, with your, you know, your upbringing when you still had your father in your life,

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talk to me about the sports and the exercise that you were doing through school ages that

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prepared you for a life in uniform.

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Well, I don't know what it was.

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I know what it was.

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Watching Rocky, Rocky for as a child, seeing those exercise montages just, you know, does

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something to you.

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And I, and then also I played all the sports growing up and then I just kind of, you know,

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got corralled into wrestling and football as what I really enjoyed.

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And the upperclassmen in wrestling really took care of me and inspired me and made me

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feel part of a team that just did something for me to make me feel so good.

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Football was something I was always through, always in through sixth grade and on.

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And that was another great place to find camaraderie and, and just go to battle with a group of

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people.

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And I just enjoyed that environment so much.

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And so football and wrestling, I found that camaraderie.

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I found that hard, tough training and exercise that brought such a crazy bond between us

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as teammates.

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And I just loved it.

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And it was just fun.

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It was tough.

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It was hard.

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I hated it, but then, you know, you love it.

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So that was just kind of my feelings about what, you know, sports were and, and that

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was for my growing up years.

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I played team sports and then I did a lot of martial arts.

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So even though you're on a team, when you're on the mat, it's just you and the other person.

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What did you glean from the individual sports and what did you glean from the team sports

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that served you well later in life?

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Some accountability when you have to weigh in for wrestling, that was just a quick hit,

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you know, hit in the face as far as you, there's no question about it.

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You either make the weight or you don't.

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It doesn't matter what your story might be when it comes to the time of the weighing

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in it's either you make it or you don't.

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And the responsibility there was, you know, it just made things acceptable.

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To monitor one's weight is definitely a hard line fact.

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You can't, you know, meander around.

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So, so that, that showed me responsibility there.

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And then even though that was an individual responsibility, it, it, it contributed to

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the team in the sense that, you know, you, you were taking care of your work for the

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team's sake and then also going to the mat and wrestling and, you know, getting, getting

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a pin could give your team extra points.

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So trying your best to, to not only win, but get a pin to gain points.

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That was the wrestling part.

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And then football, nothing can work without everybody being in, you know, coordination.

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So that those things just intangibly seeped into my, my mind and my, my soul, I think

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just through the dynamics of those sports and, and, and, and, and then just having that

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personal accountability for the team was, I think what was reinforced through those

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sports.

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Beautiful.

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What about career aspirations?

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What were you dreaming of becoming when you were still in high school?

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I was dealing with my mother prompt, making me sign a contract to go to college.

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And I was like, what am I going to go to college for?

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I told her I'd be, I would have been so happy working on a factory from nine to five, going

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home and just taking it easy.

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The idea of bringing home work, you know, like emails or, or, or, or issues or reports

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was so unattractive to me that from, even from when I was a young kid, I knew I just

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wanted something labor intensive or something I could, you know, put myself hard at for,

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for the time I'm at work, but then cut it off when I'm done.

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So I knew that's what I wanted, but since my mom wanted me to go to college, I was trying

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to figure out what I could do in college.

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So I studied elementary education for two semesters.

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And then after that, I tried kinesiology for one more.

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And after those two, after getting tired of school, I said, I'm going to do fire department.

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And so then I started throwing out applications to fire departments.

235
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So what about the Marines you mentioned about entering?

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Was that in between those two?

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Yes, it was after high school.

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I didn't know what exactly to do.

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And I was talking to my father and I tell him I'm going to go to college.

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I want to go to get a job.

241
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I want to get married, have kids.

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And he said, well, you don't have to do it in such an order so quickly.

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You can have a little adventure in your life.

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And he was in, he was drafted in the Navy during the end years of Vietnam, performed

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his first surgery at Pemde.

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Take took out somebody's appendix and he had to transfer from one boat to the other by

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pulling himself on the rope or the wire to go to the other hospital to other ship to

248
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perform the appendectomy, I think.

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And so he told me you can have a little adventure in life.

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And my friend in the football team was going to do the Marines and he was going to do the

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reserves.

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I jumped in with him.

253
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I said, let's do the Marines, but let's do the active duty.

254
00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:16,640
So he and I went to went in active duty, open infantry.

255
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We both got corralled into light armored vehicle crewmen.

256
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And that was our MOS.

257
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I got out after four years.

258
00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:26,440
My friend stayed in for 16 years.

259
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He was a drill instructor.

260
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He was an amazing Marine.

261
00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:32,400
But but anyway, yeah, I just did my four years and got out.

262
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What about 9-11?

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00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:38,120
How old were you and what was your, you know, your memory of that moment and that day?

264
00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:44,080
I was in the barracks at the end, Camp Lejeune, and I was flipping the channels and I saw

265
00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:51,080
the buildings smoking and I turned the channel because I thought it was a TV show or a movie

266
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on, you know, FX or some type of turn another channel.

267
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It was on another news.

268
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I was like, wait a second, that's the news.

269
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So of course, the whole barracks lit up.

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We're going to war.

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Oh my God.

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And, you know, the Marines that were still in the barracks at the weekend, it seemed

273
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like it was a weekend because it wasn't a workday and or some type of day that wasn't

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a workday.

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And so everybody gathered at the ramp where all our vehicles would are and we usually

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work.

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And everybody's ready to go to war.

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Of course, there were the NCOs like, go home.

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Think about it.

280
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We're not going to go to war now.

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We would have to.

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So just go back.

283
00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:34,040
So that's the day we learned about 9-11.

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And then from then on, I think everybody remembers just how charged everybody was emotionally,

285
00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:44,720
blindly about this attack on American soil.

286
00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:50,080
And yes, I was definitely caught up in that too with the Toby Keith songs, with everything

287
00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:52,640
pro America.

288
00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:56,120
And so, yeah, that's where I was on 9-11.

289
00:17:56,120 --> 00:17:58,760
And I know your stint in the Marines was somewhat short.

290
00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:02,920
Did you find yourself deploying over there or did your unit not get there?

291
00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:09,480
Yeah, right after 9-11, we were already in.

292
00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:15,740
We were already scheduled to go on our Mew, our Mediterranean float.

293
00:18:15,740 --> 00:18:18,480
And there's always military forces all over the world.

294
00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:22,460
And we were going to take our six month deployment in the Mediterranean.

295
00:18:22,460 --> 00:18:23,460
And so we did.

296
00:18:23,460 --> 00:18:32,160
We left in 2001 and we floated on a ship, on a Navy vessel through the Mediterranean,

297
00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:36,720
through the Suez Canal, down the Red Sea into the Indian Ocean.

298
00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:37,720
And we were off the coast of Bahrain.

299
00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:41,360
We were off the coast of Yemen.

300
00:18:41,360 --> 00:18:44,640
I know Yemen's been a hot spot for conflict for a long time.

301
00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:51,880
And we were off the coast of Yemen way back in 2001, prior to back then.

302
00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:57,400
So yeah, then after the Mew, I got back and then our unit got deployed to Iraq because

303
00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:05,240
the Marines activated every single light armored vehicle, every LAV in the Marine force to

304
00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:08,080
help in the initial invasion of Iraq.

305
00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:15,160
So our unit, our base in North Carolina isn't even assigned to the Middle East.

306
00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:19,640
We're more responsible for the North America, South America areas.

307
00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:25,520
But for this specific attack, they activated us to just help out in the initial invasion.

308
00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:26,520
So we went to Iraq.

309
00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:29,960
We were, we staged in Kuwait.

310
00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:35,960
And when the day, when the day arrived, we packed up our two football field sized, you

311
00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:44,680
know, grounds into four Connix boxes, loaded our vehicles, got all our bullets and weapons

312
00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:51,000
in the, in the ready position and made our slow drive towards the Iraqi border.

313
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:54,040
It was the darkest night I've ever seen.

314
00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:58,360
And I think that's a strategic choice, you know, the moon's gone.

315
00:19:58,360 --> 00:20:01,300
And so we approached the border.

316
00:20:01,300 --> 00:20:03,460
We parked all night long.

317
00:20:03,460 --> 00:20:10,000
We just watched guns and missiles and bombs being dropped in the far distance.

318
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:15,480
And then the next morning we woke up and we started our slow drive through the countryside.

319
00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:24,040
We went through some Constantina wire, large, you know, large berms border.

320
00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:27,280
And we crossed that where it was blown up and destroyed.

321
00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:36,320
And then we, then we spanned back out and we, we, we slowly drove into Iraq and a long

322
00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:39,520
line slowly, slowly, slowly for a day or two.

323
00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:44,200
And then we linked up on highway six and continued our journey.

324
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:49,640
All the LAVs and the whole Marine Corps at one point got in a large, large convoy, started

325
00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:51,520
the southern part of Iraq.

326
00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:59,320
And then we drove through this, through the country and units or battalions of LAVs, you

327
00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:05,480
know, left the convoy at certain points to go set up and do different missions along

328
00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:06,680
the way.

329
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:14,320
Our particular battalion went all the way north of Baghdad and stopped in Tikrit.

330
00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:16,360
And that's where we ended up.

331
00:21:16,360 --> 00:21:23,600
And we, we, all these LAVs units established, you know, security and established positions.

332
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:31,520
And then I think at least our position was relinquished to an army unit and we left.

333
00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:36,400
And so that was, that was our general time in Iraq.

334
00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:37,720
A couple of things.

335
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:42,680
Firstly, I know now retroactively, you know, Monday morning quarterbacking, there's a lot

336
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:46,400
of people, and I remember thinking this immediately when, when, you know, the allied nations went

337
00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:53,140
into Iraq, it was on, like you said, on the, on the anger of 9-11, which is a completely

338
00:21:53,140 --> 00:21:58,880
different country or, you know, a set of extremists within a different country or countries.

339
00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:03,240
And now, you know, a lot of our service people are going to Iraq, completely separate, you

340
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:04,880
know, conversation.

341
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:10,920
So when you look back now, you know, what, what are your thoughts, if any, as far as

342
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:17,760
that kind of retaliation movement that came out of 9-11 and then a lot of our people finding

343
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:21,720
themselves in Iraq, not Afghanistan?

344
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:29,840
I have a lot of things in my personal life that point me directly to making, making sense

345
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:37,280
or confronting my past in my military experience.

346
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:42,680
Being my wife, she's Palestinian, she's Middle Eastern, she's opened my eyes to a Middle

347
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:47,600
Easterner's perspective on all these conflicts.

348
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:50,040
And you know, and that's it, my wife.

349
00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:52,960
And she and I have four young children.

350
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:58,440
She has a beautiful family that is very much like my family in the sense of being so nice

351
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:00,120
and respectful.

352
00:23:00,120 --> 00:23:02,360
My family is a conservative Christian family.

353
00:23:02,360 --> 00:23:05,320
Her family is a conservative Muslim family.

354
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,480
And apart from that, they're just so similar.

355
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:09,760
They're just so similar.

356
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:12,840
She's the youngest of four, I'm the youngest of four.

357
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:18,640
Even the sexes of our siblings are the same, but opposite.

358
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:28,400
I say all that, so yes, I am, I am very personally forced to come confront my past and my military

359
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:29,400
experience.

360
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:39,400
And when I do that, I see, I see something I would never wish for anybody to have to

361
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:48,480
endure, which what I mean is to have to come in confrontation to us as a military unit.

362
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:57,440
We were so hard, strong, high strung in the sense of being, you know, finger on the trigger,

363
00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:03,240
being looking out for threats, looking out for ourself and our security and for the Marine

364
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:12,180
on the left and right of us, that anything that would appear in these instances where

365
00:24:12,180 --> 00:24:24,080
we're entering into small towns, where we're driving in our military convoys would get

366
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:29,760
very violent, very violent results.

367
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:30,760
Everything was a threat.

368
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:32,640
Everything was dangerous.

369
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:41,680
And so I witnessed plenty of innocent people being caught up in our military movements

370
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:49,640
and wrongly being targeted as an enemy when they were only in the wrong place at the right,

371
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,200
wrong time.

372
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:58,080
And nothing, no one is going to tell me that that didn't happen.

373
00:24:58,080 --> 00:24:59,080
It did.

374
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:01,840
And I don't want to acknowledge that.

375
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:12,440
And if I could somehow confess to that and take up and bring some type of importance

376
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:20,080
to this problem and bring some type of, I can't think of the word, you know, responsibility

377
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:25,680
to, I'm getting lost in my thoughts, but I'm just saying I experienced a lot of collateral

378
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,280
damage where innocent people got killed.

379
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:34,040
And I observed the messiness of military operations.

380
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:40,000
And I want to speak that to everybody back home to say, forget about the troops and our

381
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,400
mental wellness or mental health well-being.

382
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:48,100
How about this shed a tear for those who were caught up in our military movements that were

383
00:25:48,100 --> 00:25:53,840
doing nothing but living their lives, yet our military invaded their space and killed

384
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:55,000
them.

385
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,720
That's what I wish everybody could hear and think about.

386
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:00,880
Well, these are important conversations.

387
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:04,520
And the thing is, and I'll get this from you in a second, it's not black and white.

388
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:09,320
When you guys found yourselves in these countries, plural, you're also witnessing atrocities,

389
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:12,880
which is justifying your presence and protecting some of these people.

390
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:14,880
Some are getting killed as collateral damage.

391
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:16,080
And I hate that freaking word.

392
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,520
It sounds so inhuman, but in other people, you're doing the opposite.

393
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:23,600
You're protecting them and you're treating their animals and setting up hospitals.

394
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,680
So this is the nuanced conversation.

395
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:31,760
But no soldier was sitting there going, oh, I'd love to invade Iraq one day.

396
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:36,880
I'd love to go traipse the mountains of Afghanistan looking for terrorists one day.

397
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:40,320
No, it's only until these conflicts are initiated.

398
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,320
And obviously, 9-11 was an attack on our home soil.

399
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,960
Of course, there was going to be an equal and opposite reaction to that.

400
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:50,200
But then you look at Iraq, that's a totally different thing.

401
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:55,080
And then hearing so many people now that served and should be absolutely proud of their service,

402
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,640
but there's that other element that haunts them, especially when you look at the withdrawal

403
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:05,040
of Afghanistan, where a lot of their friends were Afghan people and they were left behind.

404
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:08,840
And now some of them were probably strung up on trees days after they left.

405
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,880
So this is the overall human conversation.

406
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:14,680
It's not the 100% pacifist, never go to war.

407
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:15,800
Of course not.

408
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:17,800
It's the walk softly, but carry a big stick.

409
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:22,080
If you're going to use violence, you have to use it as a last resort and then use it

410
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,000
efficiently.

411
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,200
And this obviously will get into Gaza later.

412
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:31,840
But I think what's an important conversation first is that you wore the uniform and you

413
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,480
were a part of this invading force.

414
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:38,440
And it's again, not saying that it should never have happened, but understanding what

415
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:44,760
it means to send our men and women over there, it's not this efficient World War II or World

416
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:47,080
War I, like, oh, they're in that trench.

417
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:48,080
That's all the bad guys.

418
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:54,560
No, these are civilians and the real bad guys, the real enemies and the extremists addressed

419
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,160
exactly the same way as the civilians.

420
00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:03,180
So I mean, I can't imagine how hard it must be to be a military member over there trying

421
00:28:03,180 --> 00:28:05,520
not to hit the wrong people.

422
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:06,520
Right.

423
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:10,120
And I just think though we are put in.

424
00:28:10,120 --> 00:28:13,360
I just don't.

425
00:28:13,360 --> 00:28:21,440
I know I just looking back hindsight, 2020, what was Iraq's?

426
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:27,720
I think Iraq seemed to be a strong military country in the Middle East.

427
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:35,680
And with hindsight, with knowing how Israel wants to expand their territory, I think it's

428
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:41,800
been you can see Benjamin Netanyahu speaking about how Iraq is a threat.

429
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:50,040
And he presented that to the American government and I think had a lot to do with the fact

430
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:57,920
that America's CIA did find weapons of mass destruction there as a point of reason to

431
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:05,280
go into Iraq and make this make this large invasion of Iraq.

432
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:10,400
And I think it was all false pretenses because the weapons of mass destruction weren't there,

433
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:14,560
yet millions of Iraqi million Iraqis were killed.

434
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:23,320
And I don't I just think the terrorist threat that was placed on Iraq never existed.

435
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:31,080
And I just feel that's what I feel guilty and sad about is I've speak spoken to Iraqi

436
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:38,960
people and their homes and their towns and cities were left in ruin, economic ruin.

437
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:40,480
They're in a worse place now.

438
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:44,100
So we destabilized again hindsight 2020.

439
00:29:44,100 --> 00:29:46,400
We have destabilized that country.

440
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:54,880
We have made it into tribal areas, Sunni, Shia and one other group.

441
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,280
And they're destabilized.

442
00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:59,280
They're not as strong as they once were.

443
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:04,600
So that benefits Israel in the sense of they don't have that those threats.

444
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:08,520
Iraq used to be a Scud missile threat to them and shot them with Scud missiles way back

445
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:13,720
in the first or back in the 90s or early 2000s.

446
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:21,000
So I just feel like it was it was the strings are pulled to conflate Iraq into the 9-11

447
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:22,000
attacks.

448
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:26,800
And there's lots of conspiracies surrounding the 9-11 attacks that I'm fully open to.

449
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:34,040
But anyway, to say Iraq was targeted due to Iraq that makes zero due to 9-11 that makes

450
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:35,440
zero sense.

451
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:41,680
So it leaves just like it left a vacuum for tribalism to enter into the area.

452
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:47,760
It leaves a vacuum for making sense somehow because what happened made no sense.

453
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:51,660
Well I'll ask you the question that I ask anyone who was deployed because again it shows

454
00:30:51,660 --> 00:30:53,360
both sides of the coin.

455
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:57,520
And the reason I ask this is if you look at Fox and CNN, for example, you're either going

456
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,740
to get, you know, kill them all like God sort them out or you're going to get they're all

457
00:31:00,740 --> 00:31:05,980
baby killers, you know, and in the middle is a nuanced conversation and nuanced lens

458
00:31:05,980 --> 00:31:10,600
of our men and women in uniform that are actually deployed with, you know, the flag on their

459
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:11,600
shoulder.

460
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:16,520
So the first part, because obviously, you know, we know Saddam Hussein wasn't exactly,

461
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:18,880
you know, a boy scout.

462
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,800
So were there moments or were the things that you witnessed while you were deployed over

463
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:26,800
there that made you realize, okay, yeah, there are some, you know, horrific people that need

464
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:29,840
to be taken care of whilst we're here?

465
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,880
I was only there for five and a half months.

466
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:36,200
When we drove through, I was the gunner on our L.A.V.

467
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:38,080
I did not have a panoramic perspective.

468
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:42,840
I was looking through my sights and most of the confrontational areas.

469
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:46,920
When we drive through a town, I was looking through my sights so I didn't see, you know,

470
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,960
a lot of small arms fire.

471
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:56,880
I saw one time a machine gun shooting towards our convoy and I took that target out.

472
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:04,240
Other than that, I didn't see an overwhelming amount of RPGs or things shooting at us.

473
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:12,800
I did witness a small little outpost that I've dug in machine gun nests and we passed the

474
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:19,360
Iraqi people who are arming it or manning it in the surrounding position laying down

475
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:21,960
next to it.

476
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:29,920
But again, I look and try to contextualize those situations and what makes more sense

477
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:41,300
to me is that these were men taking up arms in lieu of a foreign military invading their

478
00:32:41,300 --> 00:32:48,920
town, their space, saying, we're not going to sit here and be killed and destroyed because

479
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:54,000
I believe the American military as a whole was very heavy handed in their approach to

480
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:55,000
Iraq.

481
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:58,800
I mean, before we ever crossed the border, it was bombed to smithereens.

482
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:05,720
Then the helicopters went in and continued to thin out the herd and then the tanks crossed

483
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,920
the borders and then we came with our L.A.V.s.

484
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:15,520
So to be honest, I didn't see a lot of bad guys in our final sweep of the country and

485
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:20,440
our secure area spots.

486
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:22,360
So yeah, that's my answer.

487
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:23,880
I didn't see a lot of bad guys.

488
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:31,000
We were after a bath party members in different regions of the area, in different cities.

489
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:35,840
We were a distraction aspect one time when we entered Al Qut and we came in through the

490
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:45,400
south and we attracted mortar fire while the army attacked from the west and made good

491
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:47,680
progress through their attack there.

492
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,040
And then we left.

493
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:51,600
So we did all kinds of different things like that.

494
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:57,260
But as far as eyes on, I was again behind the gun looking through a periscope, looking

495
00:33:57,260 --> 00:33:58,920
at a long range site.

496
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:05,240
So I didn't have a lot of panoramic view and I didn't see a lot of bad guys.

497
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:15,360
So I don't have a lot of substance to develop this great conflict between established opposition.

498
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:23,800
I did see lots of civilians walking with white flags trying to get through their day to day.

499
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:29,920
And then they come across our spooked, highly paranoid little checkpoints.

500
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:39,160
And I watched our Marines act highly paranoid and worried and scared.

501
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:45,240
And you could see the disconnect between these people who were not a threat, yet they were

502
00:34:45,240 --> 00:34:55,560
being treated as a high threat and the complete chaos that can ensue from those two perspectives.

503
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,000
And that was what I saw more than anything.

504
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,640
I didn't see clear cut.

505
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:01,640
There's the problem.

506
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:02,760
There's our enemy.

507
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:04,760
But here I want to share this too.

508
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:09,000
I looked through the periscope and I could see magnified.

509
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:14,320
And I remember seeing this one man when we were driving through a town that had already

510
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:17,080
been shot up by our LAVs.

511
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:20,840
And I saw this man and it's like I was looking right in his face because of my magnified

512
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:30,400
periscope and the anger and the frustration that his soul had left him.

513
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:34,880
I can only imagine that he had suffered some type of loss because we had gone through and

514
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,480
destroyed a lot of his town.

515
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:40,960
But the certain look, it scared me.

516
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:46,240
I was probably 200 meters away in the hull of an LAV armored vehicle.

517
00:35:46,240 --> 00:35:53,720
And to see the seriousness in this man's face and to assume maybe what was causing the concern

518
00:35:53,720 --> 00:36:00,520
and anger and the disbelief or whatever was in his face, it sent shivers to my soul and

519
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:07,840
spoke to me and said, this man, he looked to me like he would be willing to do anything

520
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:11,040
in opposition to what we were doing there.

521
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:19,720
And so the conviction there was so much more heartfelt and serious and real compared to

522
00:36:19,720 --> 00:36:28,840
us 18 to 22 year old kids behind our American weapons, just doing what we're told, going

523
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:31,440
through the motions with our training.

524
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:39,600
I just find such an imbalance in connection and heart and soul to the two parties.

525
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:43,200
Well, this is why I ask these questions.

526
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:49,200
I've had SAS, SBS guys talking about enemy combatants in their careers and they're like

527
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:50,960
there was respect.

528
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:52,120
They were doing the same thing.

529
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:53,120
They were soldiers.

530
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:57,040
And obviously they're not talking about the ones that are torturing people and that kind

531
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:03,160
of thing, but the average enemy combatant, there was a mutual respect because there was

532
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:04,160
that.

533
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:06,000
There was that element of protecting their own land.

534
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:11,360
And if you look back at World War II, and I just was researching this from my book,

535
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:16,240
the resistance fighters in France, if you had areas where the Germans hadn't really

536
00:37:16,240 --> 00:37:21,520
committed atrocities, you didn't find much resistance, but resistance was born out of

537
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:22,520
revenge.

538
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:27,200
And so you listen to a lot of these amazing military members have been on the show.

539
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:31,400
A lot of times the ethos is like, if you are going to go in, then go in, hit the targets

540
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:33,000
that you need to hit and then get out.

541
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:38,160
But the moment you stick your flag in another country, you start breeding resistance.

542
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:42,920
You start making enemy combatants, especially if they've lost people that they love.

543
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:44,800
Yeah, totally.

544
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:45,800
Yeah.

545
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:51,920
In the Marines, no better enemy, no better, no worse enemy, no better friend.

546
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:59,480
And you don't want to incite the enemy to violence and to anger, to give them any fuel.

547
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:04,960
And I find that to be very true and very beneficial in the efforts of war.

548
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:05,960
Absolutely.

549
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:10,240
Well, the other side of that conversation, because this also gets almost no attention

550
00:38:10,240 --> 00:38:15,040
whatsoever, is kindness and compassion, witness, you know, while you were there.

551
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:17,840
Now, like you said, if you're looking through a periscope, maybe it was more that you heard

552
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:22,320
about other people, but whether it was your fellow Marines or military members, whether

553
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:26,520
it was some of the indigenous people, what were moments of kindness and compassion that

554
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:30,080
you remember, even if you were in a combat area?

555
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:33,240
Each vehicle is given eight humanitarian rations.

556
00:38:33,240 --> 00:38:37,520
We come across a person we thought we could hand it out to, we would.

557
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:42,200
That's a quick example of humanitarian stuff.

558
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:48,060
We posted up in a school, it's like, you know, Walde's area is our own little spot.

559
00:38:48,060 --> 00:38:53,880
The locals brought, you know, killed a goat and brought us goat meat.

560
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:57,080
Kids would always try to sell us cigarettes and talk to us.

561
00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:02,480
And they always say, good Bush, double Bush, good Bush for George Bush.

562
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:08,640
And so we had those types of experiences with, you know, the locals.

563
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:13,400
And so, I mean, my time there was short.

564
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:16,200
We were on the road moving the whole time.

565
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:24,000
So I didn't have much sit downs or any real, you know, good examples of the good stuff.

566
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:28,880
You know, we were, we wanted to be there for good purposes and we weren't trying to kill

567
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:30,060
locals and things.

568
00:39:30,060 --> 00:39:39,240
But when the mood of the time and the initial invasion was just filled with paranoia and

569
00:39:39,240 --> 00:39:41,440
threat level assessment.

570
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,520
And so everybody was really in that mode.

571
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:50,040
And so I don't think my mindset settled down too hard.

572
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:56,000
And I don't think many others did too, to acknowledge the humanity.

573
00:39:56,000 --> 00:40:00,520
Well, speaking of that, then you leave the Marines.

574
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:05,520
A lot of times that transition can be jarring for our military members, especially if you're

575
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:09,920
not only being in a unit, but you actually deployed and fought side by side as well.

576
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:14,960
You have that identity, you know, you come out of high school, you are a Marine.

577
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:16,920
Some people transition out quite well.

578
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:21,680
Some people struggle because, you know, now that team, that sense of purpose, that tribe,

579
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:24,040
that identity has kind of been stripped from them.

580
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:27,000
What was your transition like initially?

581
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:28,000
It was a train wreck.

582
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:33,640
Looking back, I can say that, but you know, I pushed, I took all the things I learned

583
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:39,160
in the Marines, the structure, the discipline, and pushed it into my future efforts, which

584
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:42,440
was, you know, going to college, like my mom told me to do.

585
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:48,040
And I met a girl I was in the Marines, like many do, and we got married.

586
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:53,520
We got the worst out of ourselves with each other, my ex-wife and I.

587
00:40:53,520 --> 00:41:01,760
And so to look in the silver lining, she and I expressed lots of troubled issues against

588
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:02,760
each other.

589
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:05,720
And I think we got that out of our system because we got divorced three years after

590
00:41:05,720 --> 00:41:06,720
we got married.

591
00:41:06,720 --> 00:41:11,400
But anyway, so that was a part of my post-military experience.

592
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:17,840
But then I just carried, I tried to carry forward the traits and characteristics I learned

593
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:24,360
from the Marines to accomplish these things that you have in life, which is get a job,

594
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:26,720
you know, get married, have a family.

595
00:41:26,720 --> 00:41:30,840
I didn't have a family with my first wife, so that didn't work out.

596
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:34,920
That turned me in a little bit of a tailspin and definitely was a hard person to be around

597
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:36,760
after the divorce.

598
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:43,160
But then I met my wife now and we, she had been divorced too, so we kind of helped bring

599
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:46,600
each other together.

600
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:52,400
But when I met my wife now, like I said, she's Palestinian, Middle Eastern.

601
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:58,940
It turned my perspective and put me in her and her family's shoes in this world conflict

602
00:41:58,940 --> 00:42:05,320
America's been in with the Middle East and terror and changed my perspective on that.

603
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:12,080
But I do also take my own experience and some of the questionable experiences that I had

604
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:14,480
to make the overall picture.

605
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:20,840
And it really has destabilized my position or my earlier feelings of America is the right

606
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:26,160
one in this conflict and America first and support the troops.

607
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:36,040
I see us as provocateur and a proponent of, you know, pro-war and I no longer feel that

608
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:37,040
way.

609
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:38,480
I don't feel that way at all.

610
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:40,400
I'm really against the war.

611
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:41,680
I would want to be.

612
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:46,680
I'd be proud to say I'm an activist against war now and part of Veterans for Peace and

613
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:47,680
I just don't see it.

614
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:56,400
I just see it as a gross action that is happening in the world and it's linked to the economy.

615
00:42:56,400 --> 00:43:06,520
It's linked to people's money and we all know that that's just, it's a source of wrong

616
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:11,560
motivation and it's not right.

617
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:17,040
And when it results in deaths of innocent people and so I'm so opposed to everything

618
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:18,040
now.

619
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:23,800
So that's where I am in full circle from my post-military experience.

620
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:31,440
I think it's important to separate the American people and the actions of the few in America

621
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:35,200
and I see this with so many atrocities around the world.

622
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:40,640
If you look at, for example, how many people benefited from rebuilding Iraq, the infrastructure

623
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:44,520
and all those companies that made billions if not trillions.

624
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:46,480
You look at the weapons manufacturers.

625
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:50,080
There's a lot of people and I talked about this with Telsey Gabbard who I think is a

626
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:55,160
great leader and I think she would be someone who would walk softly but carry a big stick.

627
00:43:55,160 --> 00:44:00,720
She's been in the military but she's a diplomat ultimately.

628
00:44:00,720 --> 00:44:05,360
And I compare this always with the health of the nation.

629
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:11,820
The reason why we have 70% obesity or overweight in our nation is because we have a system

630
00:44:11,820 --> 00:44:14,320
that profits from sickness.

631
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:16,920
The drug companies make money when you're ill.

632
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:17,920
I don't have a physician.

633
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:21,520
I haven't seen a doctor in years because I eat well and take care of myself.

634
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:23,760
It doesn't mean that I couldn't get some out of left field disease.

635
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:29,600
I'm not saying that but I'm the enemy of the drug company because I don't use pills.

636
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:30,880
The opposite as well as dead people.

637
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:34,320
Well, you can't have dead people because they can't pay for your pills.

638
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:39,920
So if you keep them fat and sick but alive, you've got a customer for decades.

639
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:41,560
It's so sad.

640
00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:45,560
One of my neighbors around the corner, she just passed away and every time I went past

641
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:46,560
her, she was smoking.

642
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:47,560
Absolute sweetheart.

643
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:51,820
But that's another company that killed my neighbor and she was probably only 10 years

644
00:44:51,820 --> 00:44:53,800
older than me.

645
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:58,960
But I'm sure she was on all kinds of COPD meds towards the end and hospice care.

646
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:01,600
So again, all these companies are making a lot of money.

647
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:07,900
And so when you look at when we send our men and women to war, where's the resistance to

648
00:45:07,900 --> 00:45:10,960
not go into war when so many companies are making money?

649
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:12,680
There are times when you have to.

650
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:17,840
There's no better example obviously than World War II where you genuinely have to step up.

651
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:22,760
In that case, obviously they were defending predominantly the Jewish people at that point.

652
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:28,800
But so many of these more recent conflicts, you end up not only creating a lot of these

653
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:29,800
issues within the country.

654
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:33,520
And again, it's not negating that even in these countries there was tyranny and their

655
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:34,800
own people are being oppressed.

656
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:36,520
So where's that balance?

657
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:43,400
But rather than being surgical, we're finding ourselves there and our own soldiers and military

658
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:45,920
members are saying, why are we still here?

659
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:47,400
Why are we not transitioning out?

660
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:51,260
And then you've got this vicious circle of creating more and more enemies.

661
00:45:51,260 --> 00:45:56,800
And so this is what I find as a complete non-military member, a white belt when it comes to this

662
00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:04,760
whole world is if there are so many companies that profit immensely when we are at war,

663
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:06,500
where is the resistance to that?

664
00:46:06,500 --> 00:46:11,420
Because it's not our military in general that's just itching to go kill people.

665
00:46:11,420 --> 00:46:14,920
It's the people that are sending them that are making that decision.

666
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:19,880
And I would argue that most Russians couldn't care less about whether they own, air quotes,

667
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:21,200
the Ukraine or not.

668
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:25,920
A few people sent all those Russian soldiers into that country and now we've got the same

669
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:28,700
thing going on there.

670
00:46:28,700 --> 00:46:29,700
Very well said.

671
00:46:29,700 --> 00:46:31,880
I agree with you so much.

672
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:37,680
The structure of these markets underneath these things like war or the health industry

673
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:40,080
is just too suspect.

674
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:41,560
And where is the pushback?

675
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:46,200
And I think the government is kind of we're left with the government to be the pushback.

676
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:54,800
But when the government is, I mean, lobbied and owned by the corporate sponsors, basically,

677
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:58,320
we don't have much, we don't have any pushback.

678
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:02,560
So I'm scared about the same things that you were talking about.

679
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:03,560
Absolutely.

680
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:04,840
Well, this is what's so good to hear.

681
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:12,960
These revered Navy SEALs, Green Berets, PJs, SAS, that were the pinnacle of combat saying

682
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:14,140
this very thing.

683
00:47:14,140 --> 00:47:16,280
And it's not like, oh, we should never have been there.

684
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:18,780
I'm so guilty because they also did a lot of good.

685
00:47:18,780 --> 00:47:22,080
They did protect people that were there at times when they were standing there.

686
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:26,120
However, there's that other side, too, and that question of, yeah, but why were we there

687
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:27,120
in the first place?

688
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:31,800
So my voice means nothing but your voice and all these other guests, to me, paint this

689
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:34,280
collage of what war is actually like.

690
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:36,920
And these are the voices that we need to be listening to.

691
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:38,520
Yes, sir.

692
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:39,520
Yes, sir.

693
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:43,120
Well, talk to me then about your journey into the fire service.

694
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:45,480
Were you in the new hire class with Dina?

695
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:48,200
Yes, I was in 2008.

696
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:49,200
So talk to me about that.

697
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:52,240
What was the environment that you found yourself in?

698
00:47:52,240 --> 00:47:53,240
Also, what was the demand?

699
00:47:53,240 --> 00:47:58,560
Because I think that's important now as we sit here in 2024 with the firefighter recruitment

700
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:00,560
crisis.

701
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:03,320
How hard was it to get a job back in 2008?

702
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:04,320
It was hard.

703
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:06,580
There was 24 of us that got hired.

704
00:48:06,580 --> 00:48:10,040
We heard that 1,600 people had applied.

705
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:11,640
We knew all that going into it.

706
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:16,640
So I was very prepared and ready to do my best in all the physical tests, the reading

707
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:18,860
tests, and all the interview.

708
00:48:18,860 --> 00:48:25,280
And so yeah, the mood was really high competitive competition.

709
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:28,440
And so thankful to get hired.

710
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:33,000
And then it just so happened that our lead instructor was a Marine veteran.

711
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:36,020
So he was real hard drill instructor type.

712
00:48:36,020 --> 00:48:43,640
And so I was voted as the leader of our platoon because I could speak Marine.

713
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:46,520
And so I could just be the liaison.

714
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:52,720
And we had to do the CPAT test upon hiring.

715
00:48:52,720 --> 00:48:58,800
And the academy was really physically demanding and really tough.

716
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:02,440
And I don't think I'm being biased to think at that point it was really, really, really

717
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:04,920
tough and all of our members passed.

718
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:11,680
None of us got taken out by EMT certification or any of the fire certifications.

719
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:13,800
So that's how it was.

720
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:16,720
So that was a non-certified class?

721
00:49:16,720 --> 00:49:17,720
Correct.

722
00:49:17,720 --> 00:49:18,720
Okay.

723
00:49:18,720 --> 00:49:19,720
Brilliant.

724
00:49:19,720 --> 00:49:20,720
Yeah.

725
00:49:20,720 --> 00:49:21,920
So 1,600 people for a handful of spots.

726
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:25,240
I think this is something that I'm trying to illustrate at the moment is here we are

727
00:49:25,240 --> 00:49:26,960
now and there's a reason for it.

728
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:30,120
And I talk about the 2472 relentlessly.

729
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:33,160
That poor dead horse has been flogged into the ground.

730
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:36,200
But this is the problem is it's the same exact job.

731
00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:39,920
And I'm trying to get people to kind of remember how competitive it was.

732
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:42,040
And as you said, I did the same thing.

733
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:43,040
I was running.

734
00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:44,040
I was working out.

735
00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:49,360
I was getting to the academy early doing extra drills and really taking the job seriously.

736
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:53,040
And then studying all the academic stuff and doing my ropes and knots.

737
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:58,680
And so therefore, when you make one of those positions, you are immensely grateful and

738
00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:01,280
you're driven and you're motivated.

739
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:07,200
Well, now you need 30 firefighters and you've got a list of 41.

740
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:08,440
You're taking almost everyone.

741
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:09,440
So now it's reversed.

742
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:14,040
And there's almost not saying this for most people, but there's an element of almost entitlement

743
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:16,800
now like, well, I'll take, you know, I'll take the job.

744
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:19,880
And you're all gagging to, you know, for a firefighter.

745
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:21,640
So you're lucky to have me kind of thing.

746
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:26,080
Whereas the environment that you and I entered years ago was the opposite.

747
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:30,880
Like, you know, I mean, you would I mean, especially Anaheim, I was terrified for 365

748
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:35,340
days because they would cut you any time during probation, 25% of the class.

749
00:50:35,340 --> 00:50:38,880
So for a year, I was shitting myself thinking I was going to lose my job.

750
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:43,840
And so that forged, you know, squeezed out every element of excellence as a, as a pro

751
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:46,280
B that you could.

752
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:49,800
And so we can absolutely get back there because that's what it should be.

753
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:54,880
You know, the seals and ocean lifeguards and these other high performing communities, they

754
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:58,800
need to only be taking the top 10 ish percent of candidates.

755
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:01,920
And if you're lower than that, beautiful, then that just means you've got some work

756
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:05,880
to do to get yourself into that top, you know, percentile.

757
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:11,680
Man, to speak to that, I do think there's, you know, that anxiety, that stress that that's

758
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:15,200
put on us in the beginning parts of our careers.

759
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:17,080
You know, it takes a toll on you.

760
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:20,960
And I wonder and I was admit maybe I had it hurt me so much.

761
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:21,960
It was soft.

762
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:27,920
I softened up on those who came after me because I wanted I wanted it in the sense of just

763
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:28,920
saying, hey, I know it's tough.

764
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:29,920
I know it's rough.

765
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:34,200
You know, and I didn't have that hardline mentality where a lot of instructors can be

766
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:38,560
like, you know, black or white, yes or no.

767
00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:40,560
So I get what you're saying.

768
00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:45,800
There's so vast different parts of the spectrum where people are entitled versus maybe like

769
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:50,400
more you and I were, you know, chopping at the bit to prove ourselves.

770
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:53,900
So it's it's it's very interesting.

771
00:51:53,900 --> 00:52:01,080
And I don't know what has caused this change in the service recruitment areas.

772
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:02,680
But I don't know.

773
00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:03,680
I don't know.

774
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:06,520
Well, I think what it is, it's the same job.

775
00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:11,880
But when I got hired in 2004, so when I've said this on here a lot of times, you know,

776
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:13,880
you Google what's it like to be a firefighter?

777
00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:18,840
It's all, you know, cats and trees and mustaches and other helmets and, you know, saving babies.

778
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:23,160
Now you do the same exact Google search as an 18 year old in America.

779
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:27,480
And not only is that stuff coming up, but also divorces, cancer, suicide, overdose,

780
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:28,720
et cetera, et cetera.

781
00:52:28,720 --> 00:52:32,880
And then you look at the work week, you know, and what I'm hearing over and over again,

782
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:38,160
so it's clearly a truth is this younger generation actually is a lot more open about mental health,

783
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:42,400
a lot more invested in healthy relationships and their own fitness.

784
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:47,160
And so you look at 56 hours a week, then you look at mandatory overtime to a fresh set

785
00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:48,160
of eyes.

786
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:49,160
Like, well, that's insanity.

787
00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:50,160
I don't want to do that.

788
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:51,920
I want to serve, but not this way.

789
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:55,420
So I think, you know, this is the beautiful thing is now we're having an opportunity to

790
00:52:55,420 --> 00:53:00,120
fix the working conditions and get people excited about the job because the working

791
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:01,480
conditions aren't the job.

792
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:05,120
We just devolved as we've gone to EMS and beyond.

793
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:09,780
So we can absolutely get back to thousands of people testing again, but we have to fix

794
00:53:09,780 --> 00:53:14,720
the things that are broken, which is why 24 72 is really starting to get momentum now because

795
00:53:14,720 --> 00:53:19,240
people are seeing that if you want to get people excited, just like Google went to the

796
00:53:19,240 --> 00:53:22,840
four, you know, four day work week, people value health.

797
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:24,280
They value time at home.

798
00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:29,120
You became a firefighter, so you could be, you know, a protector, but it's not more important

799
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:30,220
than your family.

800
00:53:30,220 --> 00:53:35,120
So if we've allowed ourselves to hardly ever see our families anymore, we've deviated from

801
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:37,160
the true north.

802
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:38,160
Great assessment, James.

803
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:44,160
Oh, man, I'm so glad there's people like you who have all this, you know, constructed.

804
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:45,400
I agree with you 100%.

805
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:50,680
I think it's a great, you know, assessment of what's happening with people and the job

806
00:53:50,680 --> 00:53:57,540
and, and how we can assimilate to needs now and the, the, the, the knowledge of what people

807
00:53:57,540 --> 00:54:04,080
have now and to bet to better our conditions and then let people fill in those gaps with

808
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:07,640
a better performance and a better way of life.

809
00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:08,640
Absolutely.

810
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:12,760
Well, speaking of your career then, so when you look back, when you reflect, what would

811
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:14,920
be some of the career calls that you have?

812
00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:18,800
Doesn't mean that means it has to be the most grotesque, but whether it was again, moments

813
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:22,680
of kindness and compassion, maybe some of the more extreme or larger incidents, what

814
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:26,000
are some of the ones that really kind of punctuated your career?

815
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:33,720
Uh, one of the latest, latest call that punctuated was just a psychosis drug overdose.

816
00:54:33,720 --> 00:54:39,760
The husband was just had seen it over and over, but the woman was just out of her mind,

817
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:44,560
just out of her mind, speaking nonsense, garbled, panicking out of it.

818
00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:48,680
And I had just washed my turnout gear and I had my turnout gear on.

819
00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:49,680
So I was clean.

820
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:53,640
I was like a big walking pillow and I was able to hug this woman and hold her in her

821
00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:59,480
time of chaotic crisis and just hold her and just give her that personal touch and help

822
00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:03,120
calm her and talk to her and bring her down.

823
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:07,340
And I felt like, you know, I was helping her and she, and it kept her from banging her

824
00:55:07,340 --> 00:55:12,320
head on the ground, if any benefit and, and then waited till the EMS showed up and then

825
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:13,600
EMS took her away.

826
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:17,700
And so I felt like that was the time where I felt connected, obviously with holding this

827
00:55:17,700 --> 00:55:24,840
woman and helping her try to just stop going psycho, you know, psychotic, um, other calls,

828
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:26,700
um, you know, fire calls.

829
00:55:26,700 --> 00:55:32,200
I definitely am a white cloud when it comes to most things that overall, I haven't had

830
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:34,400
a ton of crazy calls.

831
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:38,400
Um, and they never come to mind when somebody asks me.

832
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:44,700
So I can't think of many, um, intense calls, but let's see.

833
00:55:44,700 --> 00:55:47,960
I can think of, I gotta think of one.

834
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:50,160
Um, oh gosh.

835
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:53,560
Okay yeah, well here's one.

836
00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:56,720
We are at a slow station on the outskirts of town.

837
00:55:56,720 --> 00:56:02,040
A couple comes running across the street to our station with their baby and the baby's

838
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:04,020
flopping and looks blue.

839
00:56:04,020 --> 00:56:09,960
So I reach, I meet them at the pad and I grabbed the baby and he's not breathing.

840
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:16,000
So I put him on my knee and I start beating him on the back of the back and the, trying

841
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:18,160
to break, lose something.

842
00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:21,520
But you know, when you're at CPR class and they give you those dolls, they're pretty

843
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:24,240
strong or they're pretty stiff.

844
00:56:24,240 --> 00:56:27,720
Well a real baby is wobbly and so hard to manage.

845
00:56:27,720 --> 00:56:29,840
So and I hadn't had any children myself yet.

846
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:35,240
So I was having a hard time getting that baby on my knee and doing, applying the back blast.

847
00:56:35,240 --> 00:56:40,120
So my friend Derek grabbed him, took him and he got him more situated and had a little

848
00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:45,600
more confidence and started patting the baby and that, that dog's tooth, dog's toenail

849
00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:49,600
came out of the baby's airway and that baby came back around and was breathing.

850
00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:50,600
Everything was fine.

851
00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:51,600
They went to the hospital.

852
00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:53,240
They came back later in the night.

853
00:56:53,240 --> 00:56:54,240
That was a cool call.

854
00:56:54,240 --> 00:57:00,000
Wouldn't you know about four months later, another car comes pulling in our driveway,

855
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:04,480
running in with their baby saying, last thing we know he was eating M&M's in the back seat.

856
00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:06,280
Everybody stopped talking and breathing.

857
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:07,840
So we're like, oh, we know what to do.

858
00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:09,360
So we take this poor baby.

859
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:13,120
I do it this time, turn them around, put them on my knee and I start blasting on the back

860
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:15,300
trying to get that M&M out.

861
00:57:15,300 --> 00:57:16,840
And then we read, then we stopped.

862
00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:17,840
Nothing's happening.

863
00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:19,840
We reassessed the baby's hot as can be.

864
00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:24,400
The baby was having a, you know, a mal seizure or not.

865
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:25,400
Is a grand mal seizure.

866
00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:28,800
Is that when you have high or fast temperature increase?

867
00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:30,480
The fee fee bra seizure.

868
00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:31,680
Feet bra seizure.

869
00:57:31,680 --> 00:57:33,680
And so that's what happened.

870
00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:35,880
The child didn't have anything in their throat.

871
00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:41,520
So that poor child, we didn't give him much benefit other than some bruises on his back.

872
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:46,480
The child came back around, you know, and was assessed and was okay.

873
00:57:46,480 --> 00:57:49,240
But that's a silly story and connection.

874
00:57:49,240 --> 00:57:54,840
But those are some calls, you know, the knockout drag out snot slinging fires.

875
00:57:54,840 --> 00:57:59,440
You know, I haven't had anything that's too snot slinging or crazy.

876
00:57:59,440 --> 00:58:08,400
I mean, I've been in some hot fires, but nothing to really get me super, you know, charged

877
00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:10,520
up and wanting to talk about.

878
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:12,600
So I probably do.

879
00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:15,200
I just can't recall right now.

880
00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:16,760
What about the opioid crisis?

881
00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:20,000
Obviously, depending on where you are, if I ask someone in West Virginia or Ohio, I

882
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:23,120
mean, it's just, you know, absolutely devastating up there.

883
00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:25,320
What are you seeing in Raleigh specifically?

884
00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:32,200
Through, you know, me personally, I hear things from other guys, other guys in the call that

885
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:38,000
have territories that are really, you know, they use Narcan every day.

886
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:44,720
And so that's still prevalent in the homeless communities, in the homeless camps, you know,

887
00:58:44,720 --> 00:58:48,520
off the side of the highways, you know.

888
00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:54,940
So yeah, and you know, when a bad batch comes through, you know, even an uptick in the calls.

889
00:58:54,940 --> 00:58:57,920
So yeah, it's still a problem.

890
00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:01,960
Definitely in definitely certain areas of Raleigh.

891
00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:05,680
Well you mentioned trauma bonding with your first wife and getting each other's trauma

892
00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:06,680
out.

893
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:10,060
You know, it was a great mutual relationship by the sound of it.

894
00:59:10,060 --> 00:59:15,480
Talk to me about meeting your wife now and then kind of, you know, that immersion into

895
00:59:15,480 --> 00:59:18,480
the Palestinian culture.

896
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:25,480
My wife now is such a calming soul and such a peaceful person.

897
00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:34,720
And so becoming her friend was such a delight and fun experience.

898
00:59:34,720 --> 00:59:43,240
And learning about the Middle East was so gentle and so slow.

899
00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:46,560
It was never pushed on me by her.

900
00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:55,520
If anything, maybe I pushed my beliefs or my perspective on things on her as a sounding

901
00:59:55,520 --> 01:00:05,960
board and her responses were so soft but true.

902
01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:12,560
They spoke to me and it spoke to me, which I already had these experiences and I was

903
01:00:12,560 --> 01:00:17,080
trying to put the pieces together from my own experience about this conflict between

904
01:00:17,080 --> 01:00:23,760
Middle Eastern, Arab people and terrorism versus the West and all that.

905
01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:32,780
So getting her responses and her perspective helped me position all these little things

906
01:00:32,780 --> 01:00:40,400
I had in my mind already and make sense of things in a more truthful way that made sense

907
01:00:40,400 --> 01:00:41,680
to me.

908
01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:47,720
So obviously, if you go back in history, we talked about Iraq, you know, that there's

909
01:00:47,720 --> 01:00:50,160
British influence that caused issues there.

910
01:00:50,160 --> 01:00:54,040
You know, a lot of the Middle East, when we reverse engineer, a lot of the West are at

911
01:00:54,040 --> 01:00:57,280
fault, you know, the same in the African nations and other areas.

912
01:00:57,280 --> 01:00:58,800
And so it's not just that thing.

913
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:02,880
And a perfect example, I've had quite a few people on here that have interacted with the

914
01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:04,580
Somali pirates.

915
01:01:04,580 --> 01:01:10,240
And if you go back in time, you reverse engineer that the Somali waters have been heavily overfished

916
01:01:10,240 --> 01:01:11,360
by other nations.

917
01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:16,960
So the fishermen ultimately weren't able to make the money or feed their families.

918
01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:20,920
And as we all know, poverty tends to push people into crime.

919
01:01:20,920 --> 01:01:24,280
So it's not just that the people in Somalia woke up one day, oh, I'm just going to start

920
01:01:24,280 --> 01:01:25,280
invading other ships.

921
01:01:25,280 --> 01:01:28,320
You know, there's always an origin story.

922
01:01:28,320 --> 01:01:34,200
Before obviously all the recent events, what were you hearing as far as the kind of the

923
01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:38,520
history of the conflict and tension in Gaza and that area?

924
01:01:38,520 --> 01:01:42,600
I'm sorry, what was your question specific to Gaza?

925
01:01:42,600 --> 01:01:43,600
What was I hearing?

926
01:01:43,600 --> 01:01:44,600
Yeah, no problem.

927
01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:45,600
No.

928
01:01:45,600 --> 01:01:50,760
So when you were as your relationship with your wife progressed, what were you hearing

929
01:01:50,760 --> 01:01:58,480
as far as the, you know, the history of the tension between the Israelis and the Palestinians?

930
01:01:58,480 --> 01:02:06,960
I learned that the dynamic, like the default dynamic was that the military occupation forced

931
01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:12,720
the Palestinians to have such difficulty in life with just general traveling from place

932
01:02:12,720 --> 01:02:18,720
to place, getting into the country for my mother-in-law to visit her mother, the visa

933
01:02:18,720 --> 01:02:26,280
time periods, the arbitrary giving of time with a visa, you know, three months or three

934
01:02:26,280 --> 01:02:28,520
days.

935
01:02:28,520 --> 01:02:35,540
The nuisance that it was, the extreme nuisance it was to my wife's family in their relation

936
01:02:35,540 --> 01:02:44,280
to their homeland, the peaceful disposition of my mother-in-law, the loyalty she shows

937
01:02:44,280 --> 01:02:50,320
to her family members when they're sick or on their deathbed, she sits by their bedside

938
01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:58,560
literally for weeks until in loyal, love and devotion.

939
01:02:58,560 --> 01:03:10,960
When she speaks of how invasive and hard and painful the military makes her life, it really

940
01:03:10,960 --> 01:03:11,960
resounds.

941
01:03:11,960 --> 01:03:20,080
And so those, the relationships like my mother-in-law and understanding her as a person and seeing

942
01:03:20,080 --> 01:03:28,260
the pain that the military occupation causes her is probably the loudest thing that proves

943
01:03:28,260 --> 01:03:36,360
to me this unfair dynamic between Israel and Palestine.

944
01:03:36,360 --> 01:03:42,100
One of my guests, who I've had on twice now, Dr. Thea Ahmad is a Chicago ER physician.

945
01:03:42,100 --> 01:03:44,240
He's Palestinian-American.

946
01:03:44,240 --> 01:03:49,040
And the first conversation he talked about going over there, one of the humanitarian

947
01:03:49,040 --> 01:03:52,520
relief missions, I think it was the beginning of this year.

948
01:03:52,520 --> 01:03:55,400
And I think he found himself in Jerusalem at first.

949
01:03:55,400 --> 01:04:00,480
And he said, there were Jews and Muslims and Christians all praying side by side.

950
01:04:00,480 --> 01:04:06,380
And it was like, this is an integrated community of people that happen to have different religions.

951
01:04:06,380 --> 01:04:09,840
But then he talks about when he went into Gaza, like you said, the checkpoints and the

952
01:04:09,840 --> 01:04:15,760
fences and what a stark contrast that was to the rest of that area where people were

953
01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:16,760
cohabiting.

954
01:04:16,760 --> 01:04:17,760
Yeah.

955
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:18,760
Yep.

956
01:04:18,760 --> 01:04:19,760
Yes.

957
01:04:19,760 --> 01:04:27,920
And I definitely think they make life as hard as it can be for Palestinians.

958
01:04:27,920 --> 01:04:29,980
So let's talk about October 7th.

959
01:04:29,980 --> 01:04:34,480
This is what's really nauseating to me is, I've had a lot of the guests, Alan Shibaro,

960
01:04:34,480 --> 01:04:39,820
like I said, Thea, talking about the human side, because just like this is what makes

961
01:04:39,820 --> 01:04:41,280
this conversation so great.

962
01:04:41,280 --> 01:04:42,400
You have been in uniform.

963
01:04:42,400 --> 01:04:49,240
You talked about retrospectively the impact of an invasion on the innocent people in that

964
01:04:49,240 --> 01:04:50,620
area.

965
01:04:50,620 --> 01:04:54,960
And when you talk about that, the knee jerk is, oh, but October 7th.

966
01:04:54,960 --> 01:04:58,760
And what I was thinking more recently, I grew up in England when the IRA was bombing my

967
01:04:58,760 --> 01:05:01,280
people, the mainland.

968
01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:05,280
And I literally grew up next to an MOD base, Ministry of Defense base.

969
01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:07,400
So my farm is right up against it.

970
01:05:07,400 --> 01:05:10,240
We would have to check our car every morning before we went to school to make sure there

971
01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:11,960
was no bombs underneath.

972
01:05:11,960 --> 01:05:14,800
Super fun for a small child.

973
01:05:14,800 --> 01:05:16,800
So I've kind of had a little taste of that.

974
01:05:16,800 --> 01:05:18,720
It didn't happen to me.

975
01:05:18,720 --> 01:05:21,960
So I'm not saying that, but it was the environment that we grew up in, kind of like our children

976
01:05:21,960 --> 01:05:25,240
growing up now in schools having to rehearse their own murder.

977
01:05:25,240 --> 01:05:28,860
This is the environment that our children are growing up now.

978
01:05:28,860 --> 01:05:34,080
But what I was thinking with this October 7th, hands down, was horrendous.

979
01:05:34,080 --> 01:05:37,680
And everyone that was killed and all those poor families and everyone related to the

980
01:05:37,680 --> 01:05:41,040
hostages, those are victims.

981
01:05:41,040 --> 01:05:46,440
And that is an absolute tragedy, atrocity, however you want to describe it.

982
01:05:46,440 --> 01:05:51,760
This was when the IRA blew up, for example, in Manchester, shopping malls full of men,

983
01:05:51,760 --> 01:05:54,760
women and children that were just shopping, nothing to do with military or occupation

984
01:05:54,760 --> 01:05:56,360
or anything.

985
01:05:56,360 --> 01:06:03,760
But then the retaliation element would be to me, imagine if Britain had then gone and

986
01:06:03,760 --> 01:06:10,740
smited the entire city of Belfast, men, women and children, killed them, tens of thousands.

987
01:06:10,740 --> 01:06:13,400
What would the world have thought of the UK?

988
01:06:13,400 --> 01:06:17,160
They would have been absolutely disgusted and they would have probably invaded us and

989
01:06:17,160 --> 01:06:18,760
shut us down.

990
01:06:18,760 --> 01:06:26,760
So to spit out the word October 7th as a justification for the tens of thousands of Palestinians

991
01:06:26,760 --> 01:06:30,960
that have been killed, not to mention the millions that have been uprooted, I find James

992
01:06:30,960 --> 01:06:33,200
Gearing's opinion absolutely fucking disgusting.

993
01:06:33,200 --> 01:06:38,500
If you can't separate the human portion with the acknowledgement that yes, you have these

994
01:06:38,500 --> 01:06:43,380
two groups and that within that there is extremism and some of their extreme actions are completely

995
01:06:43,380 --> 01:06:48,280
unacceptable and disgusting, but you can't separate that from tens of thousands of children

996
01:06:48,280 --> 01:06:51,640
that have been murdered, then you've got to look in the mirror.

997
01:06:51,640 --> 01:06:55,440
If you can't critically think that, what the fuck are you doing day by day?

998
01:06:55,440 --> 01:06:56,840
So that's the example for me.

999
01:06:56,840 --> 01:07:02,400
The IRA attacks the UK and we destroy the entire city of Belfast, the world will be

1000
01:07:02,400 --> 01:07:03,680
in outrage.

1001
01:07:03,680 --> 01:07:05,320
And this is what's going on in Gaza.

1002
01:07:05,320 --> 01:07:09,480
And I'm saying that because I've had so many guests that have been boots on the ground

1003
01:07:09,480 --> 01:07:13,000
that have been offering humanitarian aid and then the hospital that are trying to work

1004
01:07:13,000 --> 01:07:16,880
in gets destroyed and the schools around them get bulldozed.

1005
01:07:16,880 --> 01:07:23,040
So it's not a war, air quotes, they're not combatant versus combatant.

1006
01:07:23,040 --> 01:07:24,840
So that being said, that's my opinion.

1007
01:07:24,840 --> 01:07:27,280
I just want to put that out there first.

1008
01:07:27,280 --> 01:07:33,320
Talk to me about October 7th through your family's eyes and then let's walk through

1009
01:07:33,320 --> 01:07:40,960
what you were seeing and then ultimately how you became part of the humanitarian response.

1010
01:07:40,960 --> 01:07:43,960
October 7th is going to hit differently depending on who you are.

1011
01:07:43,960 --> 01:07:48,800
I am a minority, which is Palestinian conscientious.

1012
01:07:48,800 --> 01:07:51,200
Americans do not even know Palestine exists.

1013
01:07:51,200 --> 01:07:56,840
I think many Americans do not understand what Palestine is or they only hear what Israel

1014
01:07:56,840 --> 01:08:03,160
has because in the Western media and American media, you only would hear anything that's

1015
01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:06,600
completely biased in the benefit of Israel.

1016
01:08:06,600 --> 01:08:17,160
And so being of the minority that understands the unfairness of life in Palestine, Israel,

1017
01:08:17,160 --> 01:08:27,000
when October 7th happened, I had many questions on what truly happened and I think many people

1018
01:08:27,000 --> 01:08:31,720
still do and there's up to debate, but I don't think there's much debate when you think about

1019
01:08:31,720 --> 01:08:37,400
the death toll that was reduced daily as things came down to and then when you look at that

1020
01:08:37,400 --> 01:08:44,720
death toll, how many of those people were actual military personnel and then the dynamic

1021
01:08:44,720 --> 01:08:57,120
of geography where they were putting the music fest just outside the walls of Gaza and the

1022
01:08:57,120 --> 01:09:03,680
audacity of that dynamic where people are having their best life right outside of those who

1023
01:09:03,680 --> 01:09:06,880
are suffering inside an open air prison.

1024
01:09:06,880 --> 01:09:10,160
And then also the dynamic of what kibbutz are.

1025
01:09:10,160 --> 01:09:19,400
Kibbutz are people who are strong and have boots and have security forces and have the

1026
01:09:19,400 --> 01:09:28,200
virility of life to want to make it on their own, be self-sustaining with farming and they're

1027
01:09:28,200 --> 01:09:36,440
strong and part of their mission is to be self-sustaining and take up the space in efforts

1028
01:09:36,440 --> 01:09:40,660
to settle the land in the name of Israel.

1029
01:09:40,660 --> 01:09:48,480
So all these people that were massacred on October 7th were the Israeli government is

1030
01:09:48,480 --> 01:09:55,000
responsible for their demise in the sense that the people that are settlers that take

1031
01:09:55,000 --> 01:10:04,520
the outposts in an occupational mission, they are the fodder to take damage in Israel's

1032
01:10:04,520 --> 01:10:06,040
overall efforts.

1033
01:10:06,040 --> 01:10:16,440
And so this to me is a tragedy and it's sad for those families who were killed and obviously

1034
01:10:16,440 --> 01:10:19,200
that is sad and I'm sad for that.

1035
01:10:19,200 --> 01:10:25,160
But the position that these people put themselves in, which was this outpost type lifestyle,

1036
01:10:25,160 --> 01:10:35,320
this frontier lifestyle in an obvious conflicting dynamic, they knew the risks they were taking

1037
01:10:35,320 --> 01:10:36,320
on.

1038
01:10:36,320 --> 01:10:41,100
They had security forces in lieu of these risks.

1039
01:10:41,100 --> 01:10:50,880
So I think that needs to be known when you think about the tragedy and the massacre that

1040
01:10:50,880 --> 01:10:51,880
happened.

1041
01:10:51,880 --> 01:10:57,840
The military personnel that passed, that died, they are military personnel.

1042
01:10:57,840 --> 01:11:05,400
If you go to Palestine now, every soldier you will see has an AR-15 slung around them,

1043
01:11:05,400 --> 01:11:06,400
an M4.

1044
01:11:06,400 --> 01:11:11,000
They have guns that look like the guns from the future.

1045
01:11:11,000 --> 01:11:13,120
They have so many guns.

1046
01:11:13,120 --> 01:11:19,960
Ben Gavir has given tens of thousands of weapons permits out to Israeli citizens.

1047
01:11:19,960 --> 01:11:22,840
I was told that by Israeli activists.

1048
01:11:22,840 --> 01:11:31,560
There are so many weapons and the mentality of Israel has been for years very violent

1049
01:11:31,560 --> 01:11:39,360
and very racist against Arabs.

1050
01:11:39,360 --> 01:11:46,040
So that has to be acknowledged in assessing what happened October 7th along with Benjamin

1051
01:11:46,040 --> 01:11:55,960
Netanyahu's UN speech that completely disregarded the West Bank and Gaza talking about some

1052
01:11:55,960 --> 01:12:01,240
gas pipeline coming through.

1053
01:12:01,240 --> 01:12:03,040
So I'm going to just stop there.

1054
01:12:03,040 --> 01:12:04,640
Because I'm going off.

1055
01:12:04,640 --> 01:12:05,920
No, no, you're fine.

1056
01:12:05,920 --> 01:12:09,480
So here's the thing I want to put to you as well.

1057
01:12:09,480 --> 01:12:14,280
As we touched on earlier, whether it's the Russians with the Ukraine invasion, whether

1058
01:12:14,280 --> 01:12:19,920
the Germans during World War II, we tire an entire nation with the same brush.

1059
01:12:19,920 --> 01:12:25,680
And I failed to believe that all Israeli people are all in on what's going on in Gaza.

1060
01:12:25,680 --> 01:12:29,200
So did you get any kind of inkling on the other side?

1061
01:12:29,200 --> 01:12:33,720
Because we know that, for example, when Ukraine first happened, there were these incredibly

1062
01:12:33,720 --> 01:12:37,840
courageous Russians, whether they're still alive or not, who knows, that were protesting

1063
01:12:37,840 --> 01:12:40,480
the invasion of Ukraine.

1064
01:12:40,480 --> 01:12:45,680
What I failed to hear, and I know it's a strong, strong voice, is the opposition from the Israeli

1065
01:12:45,680 --> 01:12:46,960
people on what's going on.

1066
01:12:46,960 --> 01:12:51,040
I mean, there has to be an immense one that's being suppressed.

1067
01:12:51,040 --> 01:12:56,200
I asked the Israeli activists that were with us and I took pictures of these guys and I

1068
01:12:56,200 --> 01:12:59,440
greatly enjoyed their company.

1069
01:12:59,440 --> 01:13:04,780
And I talked to them a lot with trying to understand the overall Israeli population.

1070
01:13:04,780 --> 01:13:08,320
And they openly told me their opinions.

1071
01:13:08,320 --> 01:13:17,140
And what I heard from them were that a very high percentage of Israelis aren't concerned

1072
01:13:17,140 --> 01:13:20,040
about Palestinian casualties.

1073
01:13:20,040 --> 01:13:23,200
They are mainly concerned about hostages.

1074
01:13:23,200 --> 01:13:30,680
And they're pro this genocide, pro whatever is happening now.

1075
01:13:30,680 --> 01:13:38,520
And the settler movement is highly funded by the Israeli government.

1076
01:13:38,520 --> 01:13:48,920
And so I think those are the majority of actual perspectives that are making actual action

1077
01:13:48,920 --> 01:13:54,360
and making things happen that's happening.

1078
01:13:54,360 --> 01:14:04,280
As far as some underground Israeli population that completely disagrees with what's happening,

1079
01:14:04,280 --> 01:14:07,840
I don't know if they exist.

1080
01:14:07,840 --> 01:14:15,720
In regards to the Palestinian suffering, I think they're more worried about the hostages.

1081
01:14:15,720 --> 01:14:21,000
That's the majority of who's protesting in Tel Aviv or wherever, they're protesting for

1082
01:14:21,000 --> 01:14:22,000
the hostages.

1083
01:14:22,000 --> 01:14:25,520
That their concern is not with the Palestinian loss.

1084
01:14:25,520 --> 01:14:28,600
And that really goes to a life.

1085
01:14:28,600 --> 01:14:32,880
One of the Israeli activists I talked to was an IDF soldier.

1086
01:14:32,880 --> 01:14:39,440
Same time that I was, a Marine, and spoke about just the indoctrination and the mindset.

1087
01:14:39,440 --> 01:14:42,360
And you think you're just doing your job and you're doing the right thing because every

1088
01:14:42,360 --> 01:14:44,160
Arab is a threat.

1089
01:14:44,160 --> 01:14:46,240
Every Arab is a potential murderer.

1090
01:14:46,240 --> 01:14:53,400
And so that is what is believed by Israeli citizens.

1091
01:14:53,400 --> 01:14:56,120
That's what I learned and that's what I was told.

1092
01:14:56,120 --> 01:15:03,520
And that's kind of what I'm taking from my experience from talking to those Israeli activists

1093
01:15:03,520 --> 01:15:04,520
and things.

1094
01:15:04,520 --> 01:15:05,520
Yeah.

1095
01:15:05,520 --> 01:15:10,760
I mean, I wish I could get a voice that represents that group because it has to be strong.

1096
01:15:10,760 --> 01:15:15,440
And of course, all of our countries around the world are exposed to propaganda.

1097
01:15:15,440 --> 01:15:18,840
I mean, how many times do you hear America is the greatest country in the world and you

1098
01:15:18,840 --> 01:15:21,120
look at the stats and we're not.

1099
01:15:21,120 --> 01:15:24,960
We're very proud, we're patriots, but you make your country great by investing in it.

1100
01:15:24,960 --> 01:15:28,560
And there's been a lot of sitting on laurels and you look at education or you look as we

1101
01:15:28,560 --> 01:15:32,040
touched on obesity, we've got a lot of work to do in some areas.

1102
01:15:32,040 --> 01:15:34,600
But our propaganda is that we're the greatest.

1103
01:15:34,600 --> 01:15:35,600
And that's it.

1104
01:15:35,600 --> 01:15:36,880
Blank statement.

1105
01:15:36,880 --> 01:15:41,480
And there's a difference between patriotism and pride and being part of the solution and

1106
01:15:41,480 --> 01:15:44,200
rolling up your sleeves and being a mentor in your community.

1107
01:15:44,200 --> 01:15:48,840
That's how you make a country truly great, not just by waving a flag or buying a certain

1108
01:15:48,840 --> 01:15:51,360
colored hat.

1109
01:15:51,360 --> 01:15:57,320
But when it comes to this thing, again, understanding like the North Koreans, like what is the environment

1110
01:15:57,320 --> 01:15:58,600
that they're being raised in?

1111
01:15:58,600 --> 01:16:06,560
And I find it very disappointing from a nation that saw such suffering, literally.

1112
01:16:06,560 --> 01:16:14,280
We have two generations ago that was born out of such pain that is now resistant to

1113
01:16:14,280 --> 01:16:15,840
this conversation.

1114
01:16:15,840 --> 01:16:19,600
Because I mean, you would think once bitten twice shy, as they say.

1115
01:16:19,600 --> 01:16:25,240
So there has to be a suppressed voice, whether it's through propaganda or through just censorship,

1116
01:16:25,240 --> 01:16:28,800
through the media channels there.

1117
01:16:28,800 --> 01:16:33,120
But I mean, it has to be a huge group of people that do disagree with it.

1118
01:16:33,120 --> 01:16:38,000
But their voices isn't being heard the same way as I would argue in America right now.

1119
01:16:38,000 --> 01:16:39,840
The centrist voice isn't heard.

1120
01:16:39,840 --> 01:16:43,080
You stand up and say, hey, both of these candidates are shit.

1121
01:16:43,080 --> 01:16:47,800
If we had to choose from 330 million people, that's the voice no one wants to hear.

1122
01:16:47,800 --> 01:16:51,280
Are you pro Trump or you pro Biden Harris?

1123
01:16:51,280 --> 01:16:52,280
That's it.

1124
01:16:52,280 --> 01:16:54,440
No one wants to hear like, hey, our system is broken.

1125
01:16:54,440 --> 01:16:57,040
We keep getting these shitty candidates every four years.

1126
01:16:57,040 --> 01:17:00,240
So that's the suppression and censorship here in America.

1127
01:17:00,240 --> 01:17:03,200
We shut up talking about obesity or the mental health crisis.

1128
01:17:03,200 --> 01:17:04,200
We don't want to hear it.

1129
01:17:04,200 --> 01:17:06,120
Let's talk about Haitians eating dogs.

1130
01:17:06,120 --> 01:17:08,000
It's fucking ridiculous.

1131
01:17:08,000 --> 01:17:09,400
So this is what's really disappointing.

1132
01:17:09,400 --> 01:17:13,200
If anyone listening knows of someone who can represent that group, I would love to get

1133
01:17:13,200 --> 01:17:19,080
them on because I feel like the Israeli people as a whole aren't being represented properly.

1134
01:17:19,080 --> 01:17:24,780
And again, I think we're seeing this one slice of the pie that's really doing a disservice

1135
01:17:24,780 --> 01:17:26,280
to the rest of the people.

1136
01:17:26,280 --> 01:17:31,400
It's something I want to put up for conversation sake.

1137
01:17:31,400 --> 01:17:38,240
When we do find an Israeli person who can speak to this, my questions would also, I'd

1138
01:17:38,240 --> 01:17:46,600
add, how hard strong is indoctrination in relation to Jewish ownership of the land,

1139
01:17:46,600 --> 01:17:50,000
Jewish entitlement, Jewish supremacy?

1140
01:17:50,000 --> 01:18:03,480
Those are the things that are put out there to explain this strong conflict, this strong

1141
01:18:03,480 --> 01:18:06,800
violent disposition towards Arabs.

1142
01:18:06,800 --> 01:18:18,720
It's either a sense of internal pride that pushes this self-defense motive, or is it

1143
01:18:18,720 --> 01:18:27,800
a twisted look of supremacy that's gotten out of hand and is now showing to be self-destructive

1144
01:18:27,800 --> 01:18:32,360
in the future for the state of Israel?

1145
01:18:32,360 --> 01:18:33,840
These are some questions I would have.

1146
01:18:33,840 --> 01:18:34,840
Yeah.

1147
01:18:34,840 --> 01:18:40,600
Well, I mean, the real hard facts are that I think the child death toll now is approaching

1148
01:18:40,600 --> 01:18:42,160
20,000.

1149
01:18:42,160 --> 01:18:43,920
And Gaza isn't an entire country.

1150
01:18:43,920 --> 01:18:46,280
It's a little tiny part of a country.

1151
01:18:46,280 --> 01:18:49,000
So 20,000 children are being killed.

1152
01:18:49,000 --> 01:18:52,800
And if you think about COVID and the numbers of people who were freaking out then, a lot

1153
01:18:52,800 --> 01:18:59,280
of these people were people that had pre-existing conditions and they were older.

1154
01:18:59,280 --> 01:19:03,000
And of course, the world ground to a halt when it was tens of thousands.

1155
01:19:03,000 --> 01:19:06,920
But in this case, tens of thousands of children are dying and a lot of people are turning

1156
01:19:06,920 --> 01:19:08,320
a blind eye.

1157
01:19:08,320 --> 01:19:14,320
Meanwhile, countries like South Africa that had apartheid, of which my country was a part

1158
01:19:14,320 --> 01:19:20,160
of years ago, they're actually turning around saying, no, this is absolute genocide.

1159
01:19:20,160 --> 01:19:23,760
So these other nations are even saying, they're standing up, they're having the courage, but

1160
01:19:23,760 --> 01:19:26,320
the UK isn't and the US isn't.

1161
01:19:26,320 --> 01:19:34,400
So to turn your back on something so disgusting and still just your knee-jerk is, oh, October

1162
01:19:34,400 --> 01:19:37,220
7th, we shouldn't have done that in the first place.

1163
01:19:37,220 --> 01:19:39,720
And you're not going to advocate for these innocents that are being killed.

1164
01:19:39,720 --> 01:19:44,320
I'm not talking about the Hamas, their combatants and that's where the war is.

1165
01:19:44,320 --> 01:19:48,440
But everyone else, and I said hospitals and schools and all these things that are being

1166
01:19:48,440 --> 01:19:54,480
smited into the ground that are not anything to do with the war, that is what needs to

1167
01:19:54,480 --> 01:19:55,480
be addressed.

1168
01:19:55,480 --> 01:19:57,920
So it's not, oh, pick a side.

1169
01:19:57,920 --> 01:20:01,520
It's not about, the side we should be aligning with are the innocents.

1170
01:20:01,520 --> 01:20:05,800
Just as you said, the Iraqi innocent people at the beginning of this conversation, that's

1171
01:20:05,800 --> 01:20:07,280
who we should be behind.

1172
01:20:07,280 --> 01:20:08,280
100%.

1173
01:20:08,280 --> 01:20:09,360
I agree.

1174
01:20:09,360 --> 01:20:10,760
I totally agree.

1175
01:20:10,760 --> 01:20:17,960
Yes, the spotlight needs to be taken off the two sides, Kamala Harris and Trump or Israel,

1176
01:20:17,960 --> 01:20:21,120
Palestine, Hamas, IOF, IDF.

1177
01:20:21,120 --> 01:20:22,600
It's the innocent people.

1178
01:20:22,600 --> 01:20:28,240
They have to have representation and that seems to be absent and that is intentional

1179
01:20:28,240 --> 01:20:33,920
and that is a part of this frustration and part of the tragedy and part is an insult

1180
01:20:33,920 --> 01:20:34,920
to injury.

1181
01:20:34,920 --> 01:20:39,720
Well, I want to get to what you physically witnessed now because you were boots on the

1182
01:20:39,720 --> 01:20:42,120
ground there in the West Bank.

1183
01:20:42,120 --> 01:20:50,040
Thea was talking again about the systematic bulldozing of blocks of homes and then how

1184
01:20:50,040 --> 01:20:54,560
these developers are already starting to sell the land literally as the dozer is moving

1185
01:20:54,560 --> 01:20:55,560
through.

1186
01:20:55,560 --> 01:21:01,000
So behind again, behind the so-called movement, just as you see in so many atrocities in the

1187
01:21:01,000 --> 01:21:06,800
path, more often than not, it's power and money and greed, so talk to me about the settler

1188
01:21:06,800 --> 01:21:07,800
element.

1189
01:21:07,800 --> 01:21:13,120
You've got these people who, Palestinian land, Palestinian families, you actually, talk to

1190
01:21:13,120 --> 01:21:16,600
me about your journey over there and what you witnessed with your own eyes as far as

1191
01:21:16,600 --> 01:21:18,920
that element.

1192
01:21:18,920 --> 01:21:25,080
We went over with this organization who places foreign nationals in with families who are

1193
01:21:25,080 --> 01:21:31,640
under immediate threat by activists or by settlers, by Israeli settlers and wherever

1194
01:21:31,640 --> 01:21:34,680
there's Israeli settlers, there's Israeli military.

1195
01:21:34,680 --> 01:21:41,240
They work hand in hand and since October 7th, a lot of settlers have been field promoted

1196
01:21:41,240 --> 01:21:46,340
into the IDF and so they have the walkie talkies.

1197
01:21:46,340 --> 01:21:54,480
They have AR-15s, whether it's military issued or it's personal, everybody's got an M4,

1198
01:21:54,480 --> 01:21:57,400
slung around their shoulders.

1199
01:21:57,400 --> 01:22:02,920
And so that's part of my experience over there, experience in lots of settler soldiers and

1200
01:22:02,920 --> 01:22:07,280
soldiers where they're at traffic control points.

1201
01:22:07,280 --> 01:22:11,840
And before October 7th, there was like 200 traffic control points throughout the West

1202
01:22:11,840 --> 01:22:12,840
Bank.

1203
01:22:12,840 --> 01:22:15,760
Now, over 700.

1204
01:22:15,760 --> 01:22:23,020
These checkpoints are manned by young Israeli men with the Kevlar helmets that are too big

1205
01:22:23,020 --> 01:22:24,080
for their head.

1206
01:22:24,080 --> 01:22:30,160
It just looks juvenile, yet they're holding high powered rifles and they're pointing directly

1207
01:22:30,160 --> 01:22:33,680
at your face.

1208
01:22:33,680 --> 01:22:38,000
When we were posted up with these families that were under immediate threat of their

1209
01:22:38,000 --> 01:22:48,000
land being stolen and under constant harassment by settlers, one, the settlers would drive

1210
01:22:48,000 --> 01:22:54,880
by on four wheelers, which would usually be teenage boys playing music, spotting flashlights

1211
01:22:54,880 --> 01:22:58,560
and just harassing, just harassing, driving by.

1212
01:22:58,560 --> 01:23:05,480
They would park and spotlight the whole homestead and play music and sing loudly, very obnoxiously

1213
01:23:05,480 --> 01:23:11,200
playing Hebrew trance music and dance music for an hour at a time in the middle of the

1214
01:23:11,200 --> 01:23:12,440
night.

1215
01:23:12,440 --> 01:23:19,320
And over the whole night, those are the settler harassments.

1216
01:23:19,320 --> 01:23:26,280
And then one took great shape in the sense of these four settlers turned into eight settlers.

1217
01:23:26,280 --> 01:23:29,280
They descended upon the homestead.

1218
01:23:29,280 --> 01:23:33,460
The homestead is a set of pole barns where families live.

1219
01:23:33,460 --> 01:23:37,000
There's fence crowd of hundreds of sheep.

1220
01:23:37,000 --> 01:23:40,320
There's dogs roaming around.

1221
01:23:40,320 --> 01:23:46,040
There's all kinds of infrastructure for these Bedouin people who live in rural West Bank

1222
01:23:46,040 --> 01:23:48,760
in the Jordan Valley.

1223
01:23:48,760 --> 01:23:55,680
These teenage settlers are obviously assigned or something that come and sit up on the hill,

1224
01:23:55,680 --> 01:24:02,660
play their music, make a little fire and are just, and also they will graze their herds

1225
01:24:02,660 --> 01:24:08,120
literally right through the homestead of cows going right through these pole barn areas

1226
01:24:08,120 --> 01:24:09,120
and things.

1227
01:24:09,120 --> 01:24:14,760
And the Palestinian people are completely used to it and allow it to happen.

1228
01:24:14,760 --> 01:24:21,160
These settlers come into their tents at night and sit at the end of the bed where the mom

1229
01:24:21,160 --> 01:24:28,720
is sleeping and she'll wake up and scream and they'll tell her, shut up, be word.

1230
01:24:28,720 --> 01:24:32,240
And then the husband will wake up and then they'll just get up and they'll just walk

1231
01:24:32,240 --> 01:24:33,240
away.

1232
01:24:33,240 --> 01:24:41,200
They'll sit in the social areas of these homesteads, smoke cigarettes and just do whatever they

1233
01:24:41,200 --> 01:24:42,200
want.

1234
01:24:42,200 --> 01:24:46,040
The Palestinian people just let it happen because you know what?

1235
01:24:46,040 --> 01:24:51,240
If they were to report it, the military shows up, the settler security shows up, the border

1236
01:24:51,240 --> 01:24:59,120
police show up and they take the settler's side and completely disregard any complaint

1237
01:24:59,120 --> 01:25:01,200
by the Palestinian people.

1238
01:25:01,200 --> 01:25:07,240
And what will come of that will be detainments, will be arrests of the Palestinian people.

1239
01:25:07,240 --> 01:25:13,200
And when our activists and the Palestinian patriarchs that were at the homestead were

1240
01:25:13,200 --> 01:25:21,200
attacked, kicked, punched, thrown rocks at, pepper sprayed and even a pistol presented

1241
01:25:21,200 --> 01:25:29,080
by these eight settlers, those same forces showed up, settler security, police, border

1242
01:25:29,080 --> 01:25:37,440
patrol and IOF, all four took these, well, the four settlers left the scene.

1243
01:25:37,440 --> 01:25:41,080
We came across them when I was coming as support.

1244
01:25:41,080 --> 01:25:47,080
They stopped us and harassed us and then let us move after 10, 15 minutes.

1245
01:25:47,080 --> 01:25:53,780
And then we came and then all those four security forces came, coddled the settlers, bandaged

1246
01:25:53,780 --> 01:25:59,160
one of their hands, searched their bodies for wounds and then arrested one of our activists

1247
01:25:59,160 --> 01:26:06,560
and one of the family members and detained them with anklets, took them to police, questioned

1248
01:26:06,560 --> 01:26:14,640
them, stole the Palestinian man's phone and the homestead, the patriarch, let me tell

1249
01:26:14,640 --> 01:26:18,000
you man, I touched his shoulder and he was steel.

1250
01:26:18,000 --> 01:26:21,840
This man is five foot nine but solid as a rock.

1251
01:26:21,840 --> 01:26:25,320
And you would understand that because he picks up big bags of grain.

1252
01:26:25,320 --> 01:26:26,320
He's a herder.

1253
01:26:26,320 --> 01:26:30,680
He lives in the Jordan Valley where it's a hundred degrees plus all the time.

1254
01:26:30,680 --> 01:26:31,860
He's a Bedouin man.

1255
01:26:31,860 --> 01:26:33,520
He's a strong man.

1256
01:26:33,520 --> 01:26:39,720
And when these teenage boys attacked him, he could have ripped their arms off, but he

1257
01:26:39,720 --> 01:26:48,400
showed so much restraint, so much respect in taking this aggression and not retaliating.

1258
01:26:48,400 --> 01:26:53,680
But when the elders showed up later that day after the security had arrested people and

1259
01:26:53,680 --> 01:26:56,560
everything had happened, they discussed things.

1260
01:26:56,560 --> 01:26:58,080
I had no idea what they were saying.

1261
01:26:58,080 --> 01:26:59,080
They're speaking Arabic.

1262
01:26:59,080 --> 01:27:04,080
Then later that night they returned and they said something to our friend Walid, who was

1263
01:27:04,080 --> 01:27:07,200
a patriarch of that homestead who lived there for 15 years.

1264
01:27:07,200 --> 01:27:12,440
And Walid screamed and yelled and pushed his father like he was about to fight him and

1265
01:27:12,440 --> 01:27:16,160
screamed and yelled and everybody in the whole area was like, oh, what's happening?

1266
01:27:16,160 --> 01:27:22,320
And we as outsiders thought maybe he's mad because his brother was detained and he wasn't

1267
01:27:22,320 --> 01:27:23,680
released yet.

1268
01:27:23,680 --> 01:27:27,960
Well, we've come around to understand what the elders told them is that he is going to

1269
01:27:27,960 --> 01:27:28,960
move.

1270
01:27:28,960 --> 01:27:33,440
He was going to move his homestead and that's why he was so angry.

1271
01:27:33,440 --> 01:27:38,400
And I want to speak to this process that these Bedouin men, this Bedouin man went through

1272
01:27:38,400 --> 01:27:46,000
and I think Muslims take, they acknowledge the news immediately.

1273
01:27:46,000 --> 01:27:50,360
They express the feeling they have associated to that and then they get over it.

1274
01:27:50,360 --> 01:27:53,320
Give them 15, 20 minutes, then they're over it.

1275
01:27:53,320 --> 01:27:57,840
And so what happened was this man showed how angry and frustrated he was that the elders

1276
01:27:57,840 --> 01:28:00,280
decided he needed to move and he did.

1277
01:28:00,280 --> 01:28:01,280
He got screamed.

1278
01:28:01,280 --> 01:28:06,320
But 15, 20 minutes later, he was bringing food to our tent, fresh, delicious food with

1279
01:28:06,320 --> 01:28:08,400
bread and we ate that food.

1280
01:28:08,400 --> 01:28:13,320
And then before sun up the next day, he already had his tractor up and trailer going and pulling

1281
01:28:13,320 --> 01:28:16,120
out pole barns and he was on the move.

1282
01:28:16,120 --> 01:28:23,560
And all because some teenage settlers did their thing, did their assignment harassed

1283
01:28:23,560 --> 01:28:30,520
to the point where they attacked us, shot pepper spray, got in a physical altercation,

1284
01:28:30,520 --> 01:28:37,840
was able to call security and security completely took their side and then their moves this

1285
01:28:37,840 --> 01:28:38,960
Bedouin family.

1286
01:28:38,960 --> 01:28:43,080
And when they moved to the city or the town they were trying to go to, the military told

1287
01:28:43,080 --> 01:28:45,320
them they weren't allowed to move to that town.

1288
01:28:45,320 --> 01:28:50,240
They confiscated their tractor, all their trailer and stuff, left them with their livestock

1289
01:28:50,240 --> 01:28:51,400
over the weekend.

1290
01:28:51,400 --> 01:28:55,120
And then we never were able to follow through and catch up with what happened after the

1291
01:28:55,120 --> 01:28:59,320
weekend, whether they got their equipment back or where they were allowed to stay.

1292
01:28:59,320 --> 01:29:02,720
But let me tell you, the Bedouins, they don't answer to anyone.

1293
01:29:02,720 --> 01:29:03,720
They don't need anything.

1294
01:29:03,720 --> 01:29:09,160
They're the most self-sustaining, strongest, impressive, admirable people in my opinion.

1295
01:29:09,160 --> 01:29:11,680
So trust me, they had a plan B and a plan C.

1296
01:29:11,680 --> 01:29:14,360
They will find a way till death.

1297
01:29:14,360 --> 01:29:18,640
So anyway, that was something that happened.

1298
01:29:18,640 --> 01:29:25,400
When I was researching my book, I learned that in World War II, the Nazis would evict

1299
01:29:25,400 --> 01:29:31,040
French families and German families would come from Bavaria and occupy their home.

1300
01:29:31,040 --> 01:29:34,720
So it's a kind of irony that, you know, at the time this nation now that's doing this

1301
01:29:34,720 --> 01:29:37,880
was the oppressed nation of that moment.

1302
01:29:37,880 --> 01:29:44,320
What is it, are you hearing at all why these settlers are even leaving where they originally

1303
01:29:44,320 --> 01:29:45,320
lived?

1304
01:29:45,320 --> 01:29:49,920
I mean, I can't imagine that they're in some horrendous poverty or some insane war zone

1305
01:29:49,920 --> 01:29:53,160
that they're fleeing for their own safety.

1306
01:29:53,160 --> 01:30:00,680
From the Israeli activists that I spoke to, they say these are troubled youth that are

1307
01:30:00,680 --> 01:30:07,340
corralled into these rural schools for rehabilitation, but there's no rehabilitation.

1308
01:30:07,340 --> 01:30:09,480
There's no true school.

1309
01:30:09,480 --> 01:30:14,280
They're put in these outpost schools, which are on settlements, all placed throughout

1310
01:30:14,280 --> 01:30:15,600
the West Bank.

1311
01:30:15,600 --> 01:30:18,740
And those kids are the settlers.

1312
01:30:18,740 --> 01:30:22,340
Those are the kids that are utilized in the settler movement.

1313
01:30:22,340 --> 01:30:27,720
And now this is the most efficient use of a single person.

1314
01:30:27,720 --> 01:30:38,360
One little person grazing a herd of sheep can occupy and take over great spots of land,

1315
01:30:38,360 --> 01:30:39,760
plots of land.

1316
01:30:39,760 --> 01:30:48,340
And so this is an intentional strategy by Ben Gavir of the Israeli government to push

1317
01:30:48,340 --> 01:30:53,240
out Palestinian people in Palestinian territories.

1318
01:30:53,240 --> 01:30:59,640
Well, you witnessed obviously this one event, I follow Al Jazeera and it's funny because

1319
01:30:59,640 --> 01:31:03,120
back in the day, I used to think that was like a terrorist network TV station.

1320
01:31:03,120 --> 01:31:04,120
I was so naive.

1321
01:31:04,120 --> 01:31:08,080
And then you realize, oh my God, it's actually very middle of the road reporting.

1322
01:31:08,080 --> 01:31:09,560
And they were actually just shut down.

1323
01:31:09,560 --> 01:31:14,640
The Israeli soldiers invaded one of their TV stations and shut them down.

1324
01:31:14,640 --> 01:31:16,520
So we're talking about propaganda.

1325
01:31:16,520 --> 01:31:22,160
That's one less outlet now that maybe some of the people in surrounding areas can get

1326
01:31:22,160 --> 01:31:23,680
what's really going on.

1327
01:31:23,680 --> 01:31:29,440
But I've seen a lot of the videos on there of, you know, I'm assuming IDF soldiers actually

1328
01:31:29,440 --> 01:31:35,960
beaten up and detaining Palestinian homeowners as settlers are trying to take their land.

1329
01:31:35,960 --> 01:31:39,160
We've seen the slaughter of their livestock, all kinds of things.

1330
01:31:39,160 --> 01:31:44,140
So aside from what you witnessed, but still from the eyewitnesses that you were around,

1331
01:31:44,140 --> 01:31:47,880
what are some of the other things that you've heard as far as this settlement element?

1332
01:31:47,880 --> 01:31:51,040
Because obviously we're talking about outside Gaza now.

1333
01:31:51,040 --> 01:31:59,400
I was taught by one of the original organizers of the organization we were there with.

1334
01:31:59,400 --> 01:32:05,200
He said back in the 70s, the Israeli military used to shoot the livestock, just try to deter

1335
01:32:05,200 --> 01:32:07,880
the Palestinians by shooting their livestock.

1336
01:32:07,880 --> 01:32:09,980
Well, that wasn't effective enough.

1337
01:32:09,980 --> 01:32:17,640
So then they developed a law to where if any livestock got lost, there was a veterinarian

1338
01:32:17,640 --> 01:32:20,920
hospital for lost livestock.

1339
01:32:20,920 --> 01:32:25,120
And if anybody wanted to get their livestock back, they'd have to pay, you know.

1340
01:32:25,120 --> 01:32:32,320
And you know, if you lose 30 sheep, which the settlers do, they steal sheep, they break

1341
01:32:32,320 --> 01:32:33,580
up herds.

1342
01:32:33,580 --> 01:32:35,520
Now they do it with drones.

1343
01:32:35,520 --> 01:32:37,520
Now they do it with all kinds of different things.

1344
01:32:37,520 --> 01:32:43,640
But back then, when you'd lose, say 30 sheep, and that was necessary for your livelihood,

1345
01:32:43,640 --> 01:32:49,680
you'd have to pay up and the community would have to gather all their money just to regain

1346
01:32:49,680 --> 01:32:51,720
their own livestock.

1347
01:32:51,720 --> 01:32:56,460
So that's something I learned from back in the 70s, 80s.

1348
01:32:56,460 --> 01:33:03,600
And so other settler movements and other settler actions, all I know is that all these settlers

1349
01:33:03,600 --> 01:33:09,580
have weapons and it's an unfair fight if there were to be any fight.

1350
01:33:09,580 --> 01:33:12,000
And they have all the backing of the military.

1351
01:33:12,000 --> 01:33:15,640
And the military is the sovereign power in all the land.

1352
01:33:15,640 --> 01:33:24,440
So I was in the military myself and the complete jerks that find themselves in position of

1353
01:33:24,440 --> 01:33:26,360
authority are mind blowing.

1354
01:33:26,360 --> 01:33:33,120
And if people knew the idiots that are placed in these high ranking positions, this is my

1355
01:33:33,120 --> 01:33:41,640
opinion, Brian McGuinness' opinion, you would question the whole system because those that

1356
01:33:41,640 --> 01:33:48,680
promote through the military, in my opinion, are the ones that are yes or no, sir, do anything

1357
01:33:48,680 --> 01:33:57,040
you want me to jump, yes, how high and whether that's kill children or swab the deck, they

1358
01:33:57,040 --> 01:33:59,360
want you to be a yes man.

1359
01:33:59,360 --> 01:34:03,360
And if you say yes to atrocities, I believe then you get to higher and higher.

1360
01:34:03,360 --> 01:34:06,600
And the more hardcore you are, the more rank you can get.

1361
01:34:06,600 --> 01:34:08,720
And those are the ones that rise to the top.

1362
01:34:08,720 --> 01:34:09,720
And that's the type of people.

1363
01:34:09,720 --> 01:34:17,000
And so what I say all that to say is the military law is what controls the Palestinian people.

1364
01:34:17,000 --> 01:34:20,400
And the military law is controlled by high ranking officials.

1365
01:34:20,400 --> 01:34:28,760
So those officials are going to be cutthroat, unsensitive, they're going to be cutthroat.

1366
01:34:28,760 --> 01:34:32,360
And so that's what is ruling the law of land in Palestine.

1367
01:34:32,360 --> 01:34:36,080
Well, I think we just have to look at the way COVID was handled to realize a lot of

1368
01:34:36,080 --> 01:34:38,800
people that call themselves leaders have no idea.

1369
01:34:38,800 --> 01:34:39,800
I mean, that's it.

1370
01:34:39,800 --> 01:34:44,440
And that spanned to the Republicans and the Democrats.

1371
01:34:44,440 --> 01:34:46,960
And if you look at the obesity crisis, you look at the mental health crisis, you look

1372
01:34:46,960 --> 01:34:51,600
at the obesity crisis, you look at the homelessness, you look at all the things, the gang membership,

1373
01:34:51,600 --> 01:34:54,560
this spans both sides of the aisles for decades.

1374
01:34:54,560 --> 01:34:58,400
So I would argue we can look in the mirror in our own country, in the UK and Australia

1375
01:34:58,400 --> 01:35:03,280
and New Zealand, all these people that we pay a lot of money, we pay, the people pay,

1376
01:35:03,280 --> 01:35:06,480
the taxpayers that we wanted to lead.

1377
01:35:06,480 --> 01:35:07,760
And what were we told back then?

1378
01:35:07,760 --> 01:35:09,480
Oh, stay in your house.

1379
01:35:09,480 --> 01:35:11,480
Don't be around any of your friends and family.

1380
01:35:11,480 --> 01:35:14,120
Get fast food and alcohol delivered to your home.

1381
01:35:14,120 --> 01:35:15,440
Watch TV, shut the fuck up.

1382
01:35:15,440 --> 01:35:17,140
We'll let you know when you come out.

1383
01:35:17,140 --> 01:35:22,640
And what should have been the exact opposite, protect the people who are vulnerable and

1384
01:35:22,640 --> 01:35:27,040
the rest of us, let's get out there, get the daylight, get the exercise and keep the country

1385
01:35:27,040 --> 01:35:28,040
running.

1386
01:35:28,040 --> 01:35:31,880
So we saw, you know, these presidents, these prime ministers, these state leaders, these

1387
01:35:31,880 --> 01:35:37,400
fire chiefs, you know, whatever it was, we saw who was the real leader, who had the courage

1388
01:35:37,400 --> 01:35:42,000
and who was just a puppet, you know, listening to again, whoever would benefit from it.

1389
01:35:42,000 --> 01:35:44,840
So it's not, you know, it's it's it's everywhere.

1390
01:35:44,840 --> 01:35:45,840
It's Israel.

1391
01:35:45,840 --> 01:35:48,120
It's, you know, it's I'm sure it's parts of Palestine.

1392
01:35:48,120 --> 01:35:49,920
It's the UK, it's the US.

1393
01:35:49,920 --> 01:35:54,660
And this is why again, the people, the centrist conversation is so dangerous, because when

1394
01:35:54,660 --> 01:35:59,200
we all realize that, that's when we're like, all right, we need to get rid of these people.

1395
01:35:59,200 --> 01:36:00,720
They're fucking useless.

1396
01:36:00,720 --> 01:36:05,120
And they're detrimental to national security and all these other things, too.

1397
01:36:05,120 --> 01:36:07,880
So I think this is an international problem.

1398
01:36:07,880 --> 01:36:13,560
And the problem is, if you've got other puppets, while one puppet is doing, you know, horrendous

1399
01:36:13,560 --> 01:36:17,480
things, well, they don't have the courage to stand up and say, you know what, October

1400
01:36:17,480 --> 01:36:18,480
7th is horrible.

1401
01:36:18,480 --> 01:36:19,880
But so is what's going on.

1402
01:36:19,880 --> 01:36:20,880
And we oppose it.

1403
01:36:20,880 --> 01:36:25,840
And we're not going to send you weapons for the systematic destruction of an entire race.

1404
01:36:25,840 --> 01:36:27,040
It's not happening.

1405
01:36:27,040 --> 01:36:31,160
But of course, but we're also going to send in some special forces people to seek out

1406
01:36:31,160 --> 01:36:34,160
the Hamas terrorists and find these these hostages.

1407
01:36:34,160 --> 01:36:35,160
You know what I mean?

1408
01:36:35,160 --> 01:36:37,020
That's the middle of the road conversation.

1409
01:36:37,020 --> 01:36:41,200
But it's like you said, pick a side or pick a side always cuts the country in half and

1410
01:36:41,200 --> 01:36:43,260
sets it against each other.

1411
01:36:43,260 --> 01:36:44,260
Divide and conquer.

1412
01:36:44,260 --> 01:36:45,780
United we stand.

1413
01:36:45,780 --> 01:36:49,120
So this is why these conversations are so important.

1414
01:36:49,120 --> 01:36:53,020
And so like, you know, people say, oh, you're brave talking about Gaza.

1415
01:36:53,020 --> 01:36:54,880
What a pathetic statement.

1416
01:36:54,880 --> 01:36:58,820
If you're brave because you care that all these innocent people are being murdered from

1417
01:36:58,820 --> 01:37:06,040
both sides, then God, you know, I'm much you know, what's it like being a coward then you

1418
01:37:06,040 --> 01:37:09,160
just turn your back and all this stuff and you can sleep at night.

1419
01:37:09,160 --> 01:37:11,320
I just it blows my fucking mind.

1420
01:37:11,320 --> 01:37:15,900
So you know, but the propaganda has got us a pigeonholed and, you know, painting the

1421
01:37:15,900 --> 01:37:19,240
enemy as the other side, the Democrats, the Republicans, the Muslims, the Christians,

1422
01:37:19,240 --> 01:37:21,620
the gays, the straights, whatever it is.

1423
01:37:21,620 --> 01:37:23,360
And we're just people.

1424
01:37:23,360 --> 01:37:24,620
All of us are just people.

1425
01:37:24,620 --> 01:37:28,200
And there are some rotten apples that absolutely, you know, we need to get rid of.

1426
01:37:28,200 --> 01:37:34,480
But you look at ancient tribalism, if you were a rotten apple, you got flung off a cliff.

1427
01:37:34,480 --> 01:37:37,880
It was that simple because you were a detriment to your tribe.

1428
01:37:37,880 --> 01:37:43,680
So anyway, I kind of went on a monologue myself, but it's just it's so strange.

1429
01:37:43,680 --> 01:37:52,020
I love the way you can articulate the problems in our society and explain potential ways

1430
01:37:52,020 --> 01:37:58,160
that we can step up and see through it all and potentially correct things and just point

1431
01:37:58,160 --> 01:37:59,160
out the problems.

1432
01:37:59,160 --> 01:38:03,400
I think you just I think it's so valuable for what you just said.

1433
01:38:03,400 --> 01:38:04,400
Well, thank you.

1434
01:38:04,400 --> 01:38:06,320
Well, I want to just give you the mic again.

1435
01:38:06,320 --> 01:38:11,600
Is there anything else you want to kind of report in part, hope that changes before we

1436
01:38:11,600 --> 01:38:14,520
wrap this up?

1437
01:38:14,520 --> 01:38:21,640
Just I don't know what else to add to it other than my hope and wish for a ceasefire as the

1438
01:38:21,640 --> 01:38:30,800
initial thing that can maybe help us think and collectively gather a solution diplomatically.

1439
01:38:30,800 --> 01:38:37,440
And until that happens, you know, this the stress of continuous killing and dying is

1440
01:38:37,440 --> 01:38:38,880
driving me crazy.

1441
01:38:38,880 --> 01:38:41,160
And I think it's driving many people crazy.

1442
01:38:41,160 --> 01:38:43,040
And rightfully so.

1443
01:38:43,040 --> 01:38:47,240
And like you said, brave to speak about Gaza.

1444
01:38:47,240 --> 01:38:49,960
I mean, what's a coward?

1445
01:38:49,960 --> 01:38:50,960
What's all about?

1446
01:38:50,960 --> 01:38:53,360
It's zero cents.

1447
01:38:53,360 --> 01:38:55,640
People are where matters matter.

1448
01:38:55,640 --> 01:38:58,660
And I think we all need to wake up to that.

1449
01:38:58,660 --> 01:39:08,040
And I think I personally see our our luxurious lives is the biggest reason why most of us

1450
01:39:08,040 --> 01:39:12,480
don't care, because it just doesn't affect us and our bubbles.

1451
01:39:12,480 --> 01:39:16,600
And I definitely would just like to speak out to say how individualistic I've come to

1452
01:39:16,600 --> 01:39:21,520
know America as after I've been to some Middle Eastern countries.

1453
01:39:21,520 --> 01:39:22,880
I just see it.

1454
01:39:22,880 --> 01:39:23,880
It's obvious.

1455
01:39:23,880 --> 01:39:29,000
I think if anybody were to go to a Middle Eastern country, how collective and communal

1456
01:39:29,000 --> 01:39:36,920
people are everywhere and the respect and the vibe between people in these Middle Eastern

1457
01:39:36,920 --> 01:39:42,520
countries, there's just a noticeable difference in there compared to maybe in America, where

1458
01:39:42,520 --> 01:39:44,880
we go to the store.

1459
01:39:44,880 --> 01:39:51,360
And there's just there's a certain smug individual weariness between humans.

1460
01:39:51,360 --> 01:39:59,720
I know some of us I try to like be a proponent of social, social behavior and be one with

1461
01:39:59,720 --> 01:40:02,960
my fellow citizen and things.

1462
01:40:02,960 --> 01:40:12,160
But I do see overall, there's a strong individualistic aspect of America versus these the communal

1463
01:40:12,160 --> 01:40:13,160
aspect.

1464
01:40:13,160 --> 01:40:15,320
And that's really strong.

1465
01:40:15,320 --> 01:40:20,080
And I think we leave ourselves in a bad position if we the more individualistic we get here

1466
01:40:20,080 --> 01:40:21,080
in America.

1467
01:40:21,080 --> 01:40:26,040
And I think that's just something to keep aware of.

1468
01:40:26,040 --> 01:40:28,480
I see such a beautiful humanity.

1469
01:40:28,480 --> 01:40:30,480
And I think sadly, it takes tragedy.

1470
01:40:30,480 --> 01:40:34,300
I released my book deliberately on 912, because to me, that was one of the most beautiful

1471
01:40:34,300 --> 01:40:38,800
days in American history when everyone came together and they you know, all religions

1472
01:40:38,800 --> 01:40:43,040
were side by side in New York City trying to help the people you know, and all Americans,

1473
01:40:43,040 --> 01:40:48,720
whether they were just, you know, selling sandwiches trying to raise $10 to send to

1474
01:40:48,720 --> 01:40:53,040
you know, whoever you know, it was that real commonality that real humanity element.

1475
01:40:53,040 --> 01:40:58,580
But I think if you look at the way, really, from a corporate point of view, the messages

1476
01:40:58,580 --> 01:41:02,720
that are pumped to us, you know, whether it's the sports, whether it's in business, you've

1477
01:41:02,720 --> 01:41:06,320
got to crush the opposition, you got to be a winner, it pays to be a winner, all this

1478
01:41:06,320 --> 01:41:10,520
stuff, our whole kind of messaging goes against community.

1479
01:41:10,520 --> 01:41:13,560
So the thing is, beneath that, people are good.

1480
01:41:13,560 --> 01:41:18,320
And I share videos all the time on social media of how beautiful the American people

1481
01:41:18,320 --> 01:41:21,280
actually are, despite what we're told.

1482
01:41:21,280 --> 01:41:25,760
But you know, when you've got divisive, you know, literally presidents that are deliberately

1483
01:41:25,760 --> 01:41:30,320
separating this country and dividing us and setting us against each other, then how you

1484
01:41:30,320 --> 01:41:35,260
know, you're kind of swimming against the current a little bit to be a good person.

1485
01:41:35,260 --> 01:41:37,040
So this is the thing, I think Americans are beautiful.

1486
01:41:37,040 --> 01:41:41,680
And if you look at it, I think altruistically, we donate a huge amount of money as a nation

1487
01:41:41,680 --> 01:41:43,920
and help other people.

1488
01:41:43,920 --> 01:41:48,880
But we've got to refine that community as far as our actual ethos as the messaging of

1489
01:41:48,880 --> 01:41:51,240
what it means to be an American.

1490
01:41:51,240 --> 01:41:54,400
And then now you're going to start having empathy for other people.

1491
01:41:54,400 --> 01:41:58,880
And going back to our early conversation, I pointed this out a lot, the people that

1492
01:41:58,880 --> 01:42:05,240
have opposed firefighters getting a healthy work week, they themselves work 40 hours a

1493
01:42:05,240 --> 01:42:06,240
week.

1494
01:42:06,240 --> 01:42:10,920
I mean, people that go home at five o'clock every night that sleep in their own beds are

1495
01:42:10,920 --> 01:42:15,200
the ones that are run phase that their firefighters are up, you know, three, four nights a week

1496
01:42:15,200 --> 01:42:17,080
not seeing their family that was struggling.

1497
01:42:17,080 --> 01:42:18,320
Well, I'm I'm okay.

1498
01:42:18,320 --> 01:42:19,320
I got mine.

1499
01:42:19,320 --> 01:42:21,320
So who gives a fuck about them?

1500
01:42:21,320 --> 01:42:23,080
It's the same thing with this.

1501
01:42:23,080 --> 01:42:25,080
You should care about other people.

1502
01:42:25,080 --> 01:42:30,000
So if your life is good, you should be looking around going, how can I help someone else?

1503
01:42:30,000 --> 01:42:31,000
That's right.

1504
01:42:31,000 --> 01:42:32,000
That's right.

1505
01:42:32,000 --> 01:42:36,480
It's essential to set up the set up the system and keep people desperate for that better

1506
01:42:36,480 --> 01:42:37,480
life.

1507
01:42:37,480 --> 01:42:43,040
Dangling carrots in front of people that aren't proper or realistic to just keep people in

1508
01:42:43,040 --> 01:42:49,440
that mindset of of of unfulfilled or something.

1509
01:42:49,440 --> 01:42:53,720
And it keeps people on that mindset of, you know, chasing things rather than stopping

1510
01:42:53,720 --> 01:42:58,760
and seeing everybody else around us and having a community perspective.

1511
01:42:58,760 --> 01:43:00,080
So I agree with you.

1512
01:43:00,080 --> 01:43:01,080
Very well said.

1513
01:43:01,080 --> 01:43:08,520
I really appreciate your I really like the way you can, you know, structure up and articulate

1514
01:43:08,520 --> 01:43:12,120
some of the problems I think I agree with you that are more facing.

1515
01:43:12,120 --> 01:43:16,040
Well, I want to thank you for coming on because obviously, you know, not only your service

1516
01:43:16,040 --> 01:43:21,420
in uniform throughout your entire adult life, but also your boots in the ground experiences

1517
01:43:21,420 --> 01:43:23,760
as far as the settlers in the West Bank.

1518
01:43:23,760 --> 01:43:27,920
And clearly, obviously, you're you're very, very entrenched in that and having a Palestinian

1519
01:43:27,920 --> 01:43:28,920
family.

1520
01:43:28,920 --> 01:43:30,760
But this is this is what's so important.

1521
01:43:30,760 --> 01:43:32,800
We need to hear the people that were there.

1522
01:43:32,800 --> 01:43:37,440
And this is why I have guests from such a diverse background, because if we're talking

1523
01:43:37,440 --> 01:43:40,600
about human trafficking, I want to speak to someone who's been trafficked or people that

1524
01:43:40,600 --> 01:43:46,880
are in the human trafficking, you know, anti advocacy, not some guy that made a film, for

1525
01:43:46,880 --> 01:43:47,880
example.

1526
01:43:47,880 --> 01:43:48,880
You know what I mean?

1527
01:43:48,880 --> 01:43:49,880
Like the real, real people.

1528
01:43:49,880 --> 01:43:50,880
And it's the same with this.

1529
01:43:50,880 --> 01:43:55,000
You know, you've given us an eyewitness account and we know that you are someone who's served

1530
01:43:55,000 --> 01:43:57,160
this country your entire career.

1531
01:43:57,160 --> 01:43:58,940
So I want to thank you so much.

1532
01:43:58,940 --> 01:44:02,280
Before we kind of close out, if people want to reach out to you, learn more, where are

1533
01:44:02,280 --> 01:44:04,600
the best places online?

1534
01:44:04,600 --> 01:44:07,960
I got a tick tock profile.

1535
01:44:07,960 --> 01:44:11,520
It's my name is Bogey on tick tock.

1536
01:44:11,520 --> 01:44:17,880
So I post most of my things about Palestine on tick tock little on Instagram.

1537
01:44:17,880 --> 01:44:22,960
I think my Instagram is at Brian McGinnis.

1538
01:44:22,960 --> 01:44:30,120
And and and if I could, I would like to speak one more time about, you know, non violence

1539
01:44:30,120 --> 01:44:36,960
and its efforts or its effectiveness in the world we live in today.

1540
01:44:36,960 --> 01:44:44,880
Non violence can be an unbeatable strategy if enough people buy into it, meaning that

1541
01:44:44,880 --> 01:44:52,840
if there's a war or a violent conflict, and people become conscientious enough to to gather

1542
01:44:52,840 --> 01:45:00,840
in a non violent opposition to that war, that war effort will lose its funding will lose

1543
01:45:00,840 --> 01:45:05,760
its support and just in humanity.

1544
01:45:05,760 --> 01:45:17,080
And and so if we can't slowly gather against opposed violent war, the war efforts will

1545
01:45:17,080 --> 01:45:19,680
run out of money and run out of support.

1546
01:45:19,680 --> 01:45:27,560
And so I just say all that to give one other perspective on on what people can do in efforts

1547
01:45:27,560 --> 01:45:36,200
to oppose the war and gathering together and a stance of non violence and opposition to

1548
01:45:36,200 --> 01:45:45,120
war and then trying to act in any way, whether it's voting or protesting and showing your

1549
01:45:45,120 --> 01:45:54,720
support for non violence, it does it could ask for your ultimate sacrifice against violence.

1550
01:45:54,720 --> 01:46:00,800
But in America, all the movies show you you have to beat violence with more violence.

1551
01:46:00,800 --> 01:46:10,840
I'm trying to just speak to a perspective that presents non violence as as as a potential

1552
01:46:10,840 --> 01:46:15,200
potential solution to to war.

1553
01:46:15,200 --> 01:46:16,200
Absolutely.

1554
01:46:16,200 --> 01:46:19,080
Well, again, I mean, you look at Iraq and Afghanistan, we brought a lot of violence

1555
01:46:19,080 --> 01:46:21,920
to each of those countries and no one won.

1556
01:46:21,920 --> 01:46:23,680
So I mean, that's a good example there.

1557
01:46:23,680 --> 01:46:27,600
Well, I want to thank you so, so much for being not only so generous with your time,

1558
01:46:27,600 --> 01:46:28,600
but being a voice.

1559
01:46:28,600 --> 01:46:30,000
I mean, this is what it's all about.

1560
01:46:30,000 --> 01:46:33,840
If the more of us that have this conversation, the more of us that shrug the stigma, oh,

1561
01:46:33,840 --> 01:46:35,120
you're not supposed to talk about that.

1562
01:46:35,120 --> 01:46:41,320
I mean, I saw it even in covid talking about pre existing conditions was was fricking heresy.

1563
01:46:41,320 --> 01:46:47,880
How dare you suggest that my 300 pound grandmother with COPD didn't die from the virus alone.

1564
01:46:47,880 --> 01:46:48,880
It's insane.

1565
01:46:48,880 --> 01:46:53,880
So the more people that simply talk, that actually kind of shrug off this censorship

1566
01:46:53,880 --> 01:46:59,040
that you shouldn't be talking about this issue, the more again that nonviolent movement will

1567
01:46:59,040 --> 01:47:04,760
permeate and hopefully will tip the scale and actually stop this atrocity and get every

1568
01:47:04,760 --> 01:47:08,840
you know, let's say peace is a very strong word, but hopefully end the suffering and

1569
01:47:08,840 --> 01:47:13,240
start rebuilding, you know, let those two nations start rebuilding again.

1570
01:47:13,240 --> 01:47:17,640
So I want to thank you so, so much for being so generous with your time and being courageous

1571
01:47:17,640 --> 01:47:21,880
and coming on here and speaking for the people of Gaza today.

1572
01:47:21,880 --> 01:47:22,880
Thank you so much, James.

1573
01:47:22,880 --> 01:47:23,880
Thank you so much.

1574
01:47:23,880 --> 01:47:24,880
I appreciate this opportunity.

1575
01:47:24,880 --> 01:47:25,880
It has been great to talk with you.

1576
01:47:25,880 --> 01:47:36,680
Thank you.