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This episode is sponsored by NuCalm.

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And as many of you know, I only bring sponsors onto this show

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whose products I truly swear by.

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Now we are an overworked and underslept population,

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there is neuroacoustic software beneath that is tapping into the actual frequencies of your brain,

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whether to upregulate your nervous system or downregulate.

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Now, for most of us that come off shift, we are A, exhausted,

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And you can find even more information on New Calm dot com.

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Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast. As always, my name is James Gearing,

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and this week it is my absolute honor to welcome on the show,

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personal trainer and the man behind the Modern Warrior program, Gavin Menon.

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Now in this conversation, we discuss a host of topics from his childhood in Ireland,

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the tragic car accident that changed his world, porn addiction, his powerful mental health journey,

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the importance of exercise, post-traumatic growth, and so much more.

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Now before we get to this incredible conversation, as I say every week, please just take a moment,

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go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe to the show,

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leave feedback, and leave a rating.

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Every single five-star rating truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making it easier for others to find.

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And this is a free library of almost 1,000 episodes now.

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So all I ask in return is that you help share these incredible men and women stories,

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so I can get them to every single person on planet Earth who needs to hear them.

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And as a side note, my second book, Kinder, is now available on paperback and ebook on Amazon.

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So with that being said, I introduce to you Gavin Menon. Enjoy.

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Well, Gavin, I want to start by saying thank you so much for taking the time and coming on the Behind the Shield podcast today.

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An honour, man. Big respect for yourself, big respect for your podcast.

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Absolutely love what you're doing, love the message.

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And yeah, the fact that you're up at almost 1,000 episodes is just an epic achievement.

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So well done, man. I'm privileged to be here.

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Yeah, likewise. Privileged to have you.

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So where on planet Earth are we finding you this afternoon?

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I am in Sligo in Ireland. So I've been living in Sligo for about 15 years now.

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I come from Donegal, which is about 200 miles north of this.

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So yeah, Sligo is my home at the moment in Ireland.

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Well, let's start in Donegal then.

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So tell me where you grew up in Donegal and tell me a little about your family dynamic,

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what your parents did, how many siblings.

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Yeah, so I was born and raised in quite a small village.

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And I had a pretty unique few years in my very early life.

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So when I was born, my parents were living in a mobile home that was right next door to my grandparents' house.

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And in my grandparents' house, I had a few aunties that lived there and an uncle that lived there.

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So I was born into this very large family, quite a unique setting for those first three years of my life

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until we moved away and moved into a new home.

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And the actual impact of that separation has had an incredibly difficult ripple effect on my life.

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That broken connection from those early years actually was the source for a lot of the difficulties

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that I experienced later on in life, but we can get into that later.

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My mum was a teacher and later on she became a play school teacher.

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But further on again, she was the stay-at-home mum.

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So she was the one always there looking after us, picking us up from school,

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making sure we were fed and clothed and yeah, the real caregiver.

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And my dad was always working.

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He managed pubs and he was managing a pub whenever I was a kid.

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He eventually moved on and bought his own pub when I was 13.

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And again, I spent most of my teenage years working behind the counter of a pub in a town

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where a lot of people were fond of the drink.

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And there was a lot of lessons that I took from that experience too.

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So yeah, he was a really hard worker and something I've taken from him is that high work ethic.

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And my mum was also, like I said, she was always there.

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She worked very hard but for different reasons.

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So one brother then as well. My brother is just under two years younger than me.

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And yeah, we would have beat the shit out of each other when I was younger.

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But in recent years, we have grown closer together.

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And that's been quite an important element of my relationship with him

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was repairing that actually because we were very different individuals.

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And I think for a long time he tried maybe subconsciously to fill my boots

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in terms of being the party animal and being the big drinker

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who can go out there and party all weekend without any issue.

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And I've been sober now for nearly three years and he's been sober for a year.

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So the fact that I've been sober actually inspired him to do the same.

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So yeah, some pretty cool things have happened over the last few years.

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Yeah, that's kind of where it's at. That's the long answer to that very short question.

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Yeah, that was great. And this is funny how, I mean, that illustrates exactly

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how you can be a mentor and steer someone in the wrong direction

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or you could be a mentor and steer them in the right direction.

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100%. Yeah. Yeah, I was definitely going the wrong direction myself for a lot of years.

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And then I started to turn things around.

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And well, you don't even have to try. I never encouraged him to make these changes in his life.

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But from seeing me become better myself, seeing me become more confident

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without the use of alcohol, perhaps inspired him to do the same.

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But I think we all sort of need those moments where we get a cold, hard, harsh reality check

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that stops us in our tracks. And something happened with him before he stopped drinking.

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He had a pretty poor instant. I won't go into details on it, but he had a pretty bad night out, let's say.

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And that was the last time he drank. He just needed, he basically needed a slap in the face,

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which is exactly what he got, to help make those changes.

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And again, the same was true for me as well. So I think that's unfortunate for a lot of men.

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But at the same time, it's very true that most men only make a change when they have nothing left to lose.

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So that was certainly the case for me in my life.

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You spent all that time behind the bar. Did you ever notice, maybe it's more retroactively now,

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looking back with this mature lens, but did you ever notice any commonalities

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between the men that really propped up the bar, the regulars that are there day in, day out?

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Yeah, as I said, I learned a lot of lessons during my time behind the bar.

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And when you're in it, you don't realize, because when I was in it, I fucking hated being in it.

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And this is a small, fairly small pub in a very small village.

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And I would be there, this would be my summer job, and I was maybe 15, 16.

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You open up the doors of the pub, and the people that come in the doors of the pub at half 10 in the morning

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are not exactly the people who have their shit together in life.

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They're going to the pub to get their fix, their comfort, their escapism.

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And my dad was adamant that the customer was the most important person in the building.

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And he had cameras in the pub, so there was no getting away from this.

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So he would strongly urge me, encourage me to sit and speak to the customer,

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make them feel as if they are important, make them feel as if they matter.

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So I would sit in the corner, talk to these alcoholics,

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and they would tell me stories about how they had it all, like a lot of these men had it all.

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Business, women, some of them had families, and then lost it all through alcoholism.

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And again, during those moments of hearing those stories, yes, a lot of sadness, a lot of empathy,

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but it's only when I come out there to say to that now, having gone through my own issues in life,

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that I can really understand the struggles that they went through.

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It really helped me better understand people, I think.

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There'd be one guy there, perhaps a couple of guys, but one guy there specifically,

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who was a highly respected individual, and he would drive to the pub,

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and he'd park up his brand new Jaguar.

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This guy was a businessman, he was involved in construction,

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but every single day he was going to the pub and drinking, and again,

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being in a small village, small town, and these rules and regulations of drink driving

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weren't as strict as they were back then. You could get away with having a few drinks.

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So he was there every single day, and on the outside, successful, money, rich,

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and highly respected and feared by a lot of people, but deep inside,

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he was really struggling because he needed alcohol for him to cope and function every single day.

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I think a lot of what I took from my experience in the pub has really been a big advantage

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of the work that I do today with the men that I speak to every single day

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who are going through some of the struggles in their own life.

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Also, it's a very macho and masculine environment to be in,

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so being quite a timid, shy, 12, 13, 14-year-old, you really have to grow up fast in that environment

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because you'll get pushed around. You can very easily get abused emotionally, physically,

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by people in the pub as well. We had plenty of run-ins with people who we had to bar,

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get into fights, and obviously that comes with the alcohol and the underlying difficulties

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or pain or anger that they're struggling with.

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We had a few lucky escapes there as well, which again, big lessons that you have to step up

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and somewhat be able to assert yourself even as a young man. So, yeah, big, big lessons.

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This is an interesting perspective because I think we all know people just like that.

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On the outside, they're a respected firefighter or police officer or lawyer or whatever it is,

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and then you hear or see firsthand the behind the scenes. They are successful,

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but more often than not, there are these things that are underlying.

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I think a lot of that comes from early life. You touched on that trauma of being separated

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from that more cohesive, larger family, and they say it takes a village,

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and I think that's what we're missing at the moment. We push now to get our kids out,

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go get a one-bedroom apartment of your own, and I don't think it makes any sense.

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I think those multi-generational families, as long as they get on with each other,

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actually I think they've got it right. So, when you look back, talk to me about that.

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As you've unpacked it now, the impact of your formative years on your struggles later.

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Yeah, it was huge, and it's only actually in recent years that I began to discover the significance of that.

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I'm 39 years of age and nerdy 40, and up until the age of probably 36, 37,

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I just never comprehended the incredible impact that that had on me.

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All throughout my life, I've been asking questions,

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especially later on in my 20s and my early 30s in terms of why am I feeling this level of emptiness inside?

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Why am I addicted to pornography? Why can I not connect fully with a woman?

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Or why can I not connect fully with people? Why am I always holding back?

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Why am I pushing people away? And going back there to the separation of that family

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really gave me the answers in terms of understanding that three years of age,

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up until three years of age, we moved away when I was just about three and a half years of age.

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And that to me is my family. I don't look at that in terms of, oh, here's my mom, here's my dad,

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here's my little brother, and that's my family. And someday we're going to leave them because we're going to move into a new home.

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And I don't even comprehend that. To me, this was my life, this was my family.

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And I didn't just have perhaps one mother figure in my biological mother.

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I had my grandmother who was also perhaps a mother figure. I had an auntie who I was very, very close to,

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deep, deep connection with an auntie of mine. I'd call her my savior during those years.

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She'd be the one who I would run to for comfort, for soothing if my parents were angry or upset with me about something that I'd done.

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And my first childhood memory is one of me being left behind with my auntie because of something that I had done to upset my mom.

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And I still have memories of me crying as my mom and dad are leaving the house because the plan was to go with them.

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But that was my punishment, was to be left behind. So again, you start to internalize these reactions of other people and believe that there's something wrong with you,

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that you're a bad person, that you don't deserve love, that you don't deserve compassion, and you only deserve bad things to happen to you.

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Now, of course, that story is not true, but this is the story of a three-year-old that then followed me through all my life and combined that then with the separation.

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So only in the last few months I spoke to my auntie about this, who I just mentioned had a very close relationship with.

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And I almost couldn't believe it, but she backed up exactly what I believed. And she said, well, of course, of course, that had an impact on you.

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Of course, that traumatized you. She remembers things that I don't remember.

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She remembers when we did leave and I'd go to visit that I'd be in absolute tears and I wouldn't want to leave them to go back to my new home.

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And she would be coming up with suggestions in terms of what they could possibly do to help me. Could he stay here a bit longer? Does he have to move? But ultimately he had to go home.

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So the impact of that lost connection is what's had me, I believe in it, what's had me searching for this connection on my life.

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And I found that connection in all the wrong places. I found that connection in porn.

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I found that connection in women and sex, but only in the physical sense with no substance.

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So again, going back to what I mentioned, keeping people at bay. If they get too close, they could hurt me, they could leave me.

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And again, as a three year old, that's the story I created that there was something wrong with me. I did something wrong and these people left me.

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Of course, the story is not true, which means you've got to change the story in order to change those thoughts, change the behaviors, change your actions and change your life, which I've been doing.

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But that's been the impact. And I believe that has been the core of the, I would say, the extreme addiction that I have of porn ever since my teenage years up until probably my early thirties when I completely healed and completely removed porn from my life.

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So yeah, that's been a huge impact. As I mentioned, I think it was also the loss of that comfort and soothing that my auntie offered me.

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So if I was stressed because something happened at home, if I was upset because my mom was upset over something I've done, I no longer had my auntie to run to, to soothe me, to comfort me, to say, hey, it's okay.

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You're, you'll be okay. She'll be, she'll get over it. It's not your fault. I no longer had that.

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So I had to replace that with something else that offered that same sort of soothing and comfort. And I think porn was the thing. And then, you know, women as well.

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So yeah, that's, that's been a huge, huge part of my healing process over the last couple of years.

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What about sports when you were in the school ages, what were you playing back then?

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I'm laughing because coming from a small village, I don't know if you'd understand this. So I come from a small village in Donegal and the only two sports really that were offered to us was football.

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So either soccer or Gaelic football, which is the, is the Irish national sport, one of the Irish national sports. Gaelic football and hurling would be the two national sports here.

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But if you can't kick a ball, you're pretty fucked. And not just fucked in terms of you can't play that sport, but you're also fucked in terms of being respected by other kids.

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And unfortunately I was the one that wasn't very good at kicking a ball and combining that with, you know, back then being quite timid or shy or reserved, certainly very sensitive.

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Other people's criticisms of me would really get to me. And I again would withdraw. So I did struggle a lot with bullying in those early years in school.

198
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:31,740
And again, you know, looking back on that, it wasn't something that I dealt with properly. I think I went running to mommy and daddy, mommy and daddy come in and they would sort of fix it for me.

199
00:21:31,740 --> 00:21:48,240
So again, it sort of warped my mind in terms of, if I've got a problem here, if I'm struggling, if I'm having a difficulty in my relationship, difficulty with finances or difficulty in life, someone's going to come along and save me here.

200
00:21:48,740 --> 00:21:56,240
Because that's all, that's always what happened. And, you know, I can maybe complain about what's happening or play the victim and, you know, eventually they'll step in and fix this for me.

201
00:21:56,240 --> 00:22:09,740
So I think I've got a son now who's 37 years old and it's a big thing I'm trying to teach him that if somebody pushes you around, you got to push them back. If you get punched, you're going to punch them back.

202
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:19,740
And I'm not going to be going there running to school, talking to teachers to try and fix the situation for him, unless it gets out of control, obviously.

203
00:22:19,740 --> 00:22:29,240
I believe that sort of disabled my confidence to be able to stand up for myself and face these bullies.

204
00:22:29,740 --> 00:22:46,240
Eventually I got there. Fortunately, I did find karate when I was seven years of age and I think I was pretty much forced into that because my parents could see that I needed to learn some self-defense.

205
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:53,740
As I said, I was very sensitive. I was a very anxious child probably based on what happened in those very early years.

206
00:22:54,240 --> 00:23:06,740
It was a huge part of it. But nobody's speaking about anxiety. Nobody's speaking about mental health back in 1990, 1991 when I was six, seven years of age.

207
00:23:06,740 --> 00:23:18,240
So yeah, into karate. I spent a few years in karate, worked my way up to a brown belt there and that really instilled a lot of confidence.

208
00:23:18,740 --> 00:23:30,240
But again, it comes with that sort of safety element where you go to the karate club and you know you can spar people in the karate club and you can do your thing there.

209
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:36,740
But in the back of your mind, you know there's an element of safety. It's not going to get out of control. It's not going to get out of hand.

210
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:55,740
So to then take that onto the streets or onto the playground, there's always a risk that things could go really fucking wrong and nobody's going to come along to break this up and to save you if somebody is on your chest beating the shit out of you.

211
00:23:55,740 --> 00:24:08,240
So I would still hold back when it came to violence or aggression even though I had the ability to fight. But it did instil confidence.

212
00:24:08,740 --> 00:24:18,240
But then when I was 13, I broke my wrist and I never made it to my black belt. But then when I was 15, I started kickboxing. Really enjoyed that.

213
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:30,740
And by 15, 16, my confidence really began to grow. I think kickboxing was something that really instilled a lot more confidence and esteem because it was something I was really good at.

214
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:44,740
And kickboxing went on to boxing and going into the ring. I remember when I did ring once and maybe one of my first sparring sessions in the ring.

215
00:24:44,740 --> 00:24:52,240
And I was in there with a boxer who was in his prime possibly. He was certainly there a lot longer than I was.

216
00:24:52,740 --> 00:25:08,240
And hit him a jab in the eye and he got an immediate black eye. And hard luck to him. But to me, I thought, fuck, I can actually fight. I can actually instill some damage here in a man if I have to.

217
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:21,740
So now in saying that, street fights have been rare. There's been a few tussles when drink was involved in my 20s in college and things like that.

218
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:30,740
But it's generally something I avoid because to me, to get into those types of situations, there's always the risk of somebody dying.

219
00:25:30,740 --> 00:25:41,240
And I did have a friend of mine actually who could caught up in something like that and did seven years in prison for manslaughter when he was only 20, 21.

220
00:25:41,740 --> 00:25:50,240
Wrong place, wrong time and wrong hit or hit someone in the wrong place. So that's something I've avoided.

221
00:25:50,240 --> 00:26:02,740
So again, that's a long answer to your question. But the main sport for me was martial arts, somewhere around that kickboxing, boxing, karate in the earlier years.

222
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:16,740
I always enjoyed those individual sports more than team sports because I was probably afraid to let the team down because I didn't trust myself enough to be able to support them with my own abilities.

223
00:26:16,740 --> 00:26:26,240
And therefore, I just took on the individual sports because what I don't have to worry about what anybody else is doing here.

224
00:26:26,740 --> 00:26:31,240
I just have to focus on myself and I have to focus on this obstacle ahead of me, which is this man to overcome.

225
00:26:31,740 --> 00:26:37,240
So that to me worked quite well with my characteristics and personality.

226
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:48,740
There's a lot of parallels to my upbringing. I got into, let me see, it was actually Taekwondo was the very first thing, but then shortly after that it was Shotokan, karate for a while.

227
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:56,740
And then back into Taekwondo. And then when I was doing Taekwondo, I even won national tournaments. Some were formed, some were for actual sparring.

228
00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:05,740
But that imposter syndrome is huge. And it is partly justified because when you do sport, certainly Taekwondo, and you get into the real world and you go take a kickboxing class.

229
00:27:05,740 --> 00:27:12,240
And they hammer that leg that you've been jumping up and down on, and then punch you in the face. You're like, oh, okay. So I'm not as good as I thought.

230
00:27:12,740 --> 00:27:20,240
So it serves as a purpose too. But at what point do you say, okay, now, like they said, now I feel like I can hit. I did kickboxing and Jiu Jitsu.

231
00:27:20,740 --> 00:27:28,240
And to this day at 50 years old, I still, there's that voice in me, like, doesn't matter who picks the fight with you, they're going to kick your ass. You know what I mean?

232
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:38,740
And as you look at the training you've done, am I a tough, tough man? No. But should I fare well against the average person? Yeah. But that imposter syndrome lives rent free still.

233
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:41,740
And it is, I'm sure from that meekness when we were little.

234
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:49,740
Yeah, it's from being beaten up when we were small, being made to feel quite vulnerable and weak and soft.

235
00:27:49,740 --> 00:28:13,240
And yeah, I'm not too sure if that voice still lingers there. It's not something I entertain too much anymore in terms of, you know, walking in the street and, you know, sizing up men or that I feel if I was threatened, you know, could I stand up for myself? Could I fight back?

236
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:23,740
It's not something that I ponder over too much. To me, I generally just, I would avoid those situations based on what I mentioned earlier.

237
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:32,740
Like my friend getting caught up in that situation was a huge, huge lesson for me because in those college days, I was reckless.

238
00:28:32,740 --> 00:28:43,240
Like alcohol had such a grip on me over those years in college, but you know, based again on some of those underlying traumas that weren't addressed at the time.

239
00:28:43,740 --> 00:28:49,240
And trying to fit in and trying to be liked and trying to be the party animal and trying to make everyone else laugh and be happy.

240
00:28:49,740 --> 00:28:56,240
And if I make them laugh and they're happy and, you know, they're going to like me, they're going to accept me and I'll be the man and I'll be respected.

241
00:28:56,740 --> 00:29:00,240
And it's like, well, who the fuck they're respecting? Who are they liking? Who is this guy?

242
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:10,740
So it was a whole false persona that I created because I rejected my true self based on, you know, the bullies in my early years and the shame that I felt around my true self.

243
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:17,740
But yeah, those college years, there was a lot of reckless behavior and I did get into some tussles and some fights.

244
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:23,740
But when I heard about what happened to my friend, you know, that was a huge, huge lesson for me.

245
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:25,740
And I think ever since then, I've just avoided it.

246
00:29:25,740 --> 00:29:38,240
And yeah, yeah, that has experienced certainly changed my outlook in terms of violence and aggression and fighting.

247
00:29:38,740 --> 00:29:39,240
Yeah.

248
00:29:39,740 --> 00:29:40,240
Yeah.

249
00:29:40,740 --> 00:29:51,240
I think why it's still prevalent in my mind is doing, you know, being a first responder, being a firefighter for so long, you're around a lot of violence and you see, you know, you've got a kind of echo chamber of what people can do to each other.

250
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:59,740
So the average person is not probably thinking about that, but I think, you know, especially law enforcement, I'm sure wasn't there probably even worse as an element of hypervigilance.

251
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:07,740
And, you know, most people are super nice, but the other day, for example, there was a guy I watched almost cause a horrendous accident on the main road.

252
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,740
And then he ended up pulling in the same supermarket that I went into.

253
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:16,740
And then there's people, you know, loading their cars with the shopping and everything, and then he does like a burnout out.

254
00:30:16,740 --> 00:30:21,240
And so I throw my hands up and like, and he gets out of his car and I'm like, oh shit, here we go.

255
00:30:21,740 --> 00:30:24,240
And he was, you know, about my age, obviously in good shape too.

256
00:30:24,740 --> 00:30:29,240
But what was interesting as I said to him, you know, look, I was a firefighter for a long time.

257
00:30:29,740 --> 00:30:33,240
I see what happens when people drive like this, you're going to end up hurting someone.

258
00:30:33,740 --> 00:30:38,240
And I'm still, you know, partly ready for God forbid, you know, something physical to happen.

259
00:30:38,740 --> 00:30:42,240
He extended his hand and he shook my hand and he said, thank you.

260
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:49,740
So he was probably just having a bad day and hopefully maybe that conversation stopped him from, you know, causing an accident down the road.

261
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:55,740
But of course, I'm very, very aware that that could have gone a very different way as well, especially in America where everyone's got guns.

262
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:56,740
Yeah.

263
00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:58,740
Well, I think it's just the way you communicated as well.

264
00:30:59,240 --> 00:30:59,740
You didn't make it personal.

265
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,740
So you didn't say, oh, what the fuck were you at?

266
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:05,740
You're driving like a lunatic.

267
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:06,740
You're going to kill somebody.

268
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:10,740
It's like, I was a fireman, you know, based on that type of behavior.

269
00:31:10,740 --> 00:31:15,240
You could cause an accident and, you know, you depersonalized him.

270
00:31:15,740 --> 00:31:27,240
But I think that's again, part of maturity as well as being able to communicate effectively instead of someone else sizing up to you and you feel the threat.

271
00:31:27,740 --> 00:31:38,240
And perhaps you hit them before they hit you and you get into a scuffle and, you know, all hell breaks loose and somebody's on the court or somebody's in jail or somebody's in a hospital the day after.

272
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:45,740
And yeah, like that level of communication, I think is quite powerful the way you put that across.

273
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:48,740
So, yeah, nicely done, man.

274
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:49,740
Nicely handled.

275
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:50,740
Yeah.

276
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:51,740
Well, I mean, to him as well.

277
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:54,740
I mean, think about the humility that took for him.

278
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:56,740
So I have admiration for him too.

279
00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:57,740
True, true.

280
00:31:58,240 --> 00:31:58,740
Well, you talked about college.

281
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,740
As far as career aspirations, when you were in school, what was it that you were dreaming of becoming?

282
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:05,740
Probably a footballer.

283
00:32:05,740 --> 00:32:08,240
The one thing that I struggled with so much.

284
00:32:08,740 --> 00:32:12,240
Yeah, I was a big Manchester United fan.

285
00:32:12,740 --> 00:32:15,240
Still am a big fan of theirs.

286
00:32:15,740 --> 00:32:25,240
So although I wasn't good at that sport, I loved it and I would have spent a lot of time practicing at home.

287
00:32:25,740 --> 00:32:33,240
And like the difficulties that I felt in the playground actually spurred me on to improve in that sport.

288
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:38,740
I did eventually get into a team, and I was decent.

289
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,740
But yeah, those early dreams were probably being a footballer.

290
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:56,740
But again, on reflection, there was nothing really that stood out to me as that's what I would love to do as a career in my early years.

291
00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,740
I kind of wandered through my life not knowing what to do.

292
00:32:59,740 --> 00:33:07,240
And I remember going through college and you've got what we call it here in Ireland, the leaving cert coming up.

293
00:33:07,740 --> 00:33:10,240
That's the final exam of your school years.

294
00:33:10,740 --> 00:33:14,240
And basically sets you up for the next step towards college or university.

295
00:33:14,740 --> 00:33:25,240
But we're sort of, I believe indoctrinated into this system where that's the way to go.

296
00:33:25,740 --> 00:33:28,240
You go to school, you finish school, you've got to go to university or college now.

297
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:35,740
And there's no, at least for me, maybe no opportunity to step back and ask, okay, well, what is it that you want to do?

298
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:37,740
Do you want to go to college?

299
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:40,740
It's almost like there's an expectation to go to college, go to university.

300
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:42,740
And I was pretty okay at school.

301
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:46,740
I didn't try too hard, but I got by.

302
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,740
And I finished school.

303
00:33:49,740 --> 00:34:00,240
And again, putting down those colleges and those careers that I wanted to follow, I just thought, well, I like sports.

304
00:34:00,740 --> 00:34:02,240
So maybe I'll do something in sports.

305
00:34:02,740 --> 00:34:04,240
So I did sports science.

306
00:34:04,740 --> 00:34:08,240
I added sports science there and maybe some business and sports courses.

307
00:34:08,740 --> 00:34:12,240
But deep down inside, I didn't really know what I wanted to do.

308
00:34:12,240 --> 00:34:19,740
But fitness and health was a big element of my life from probably my early teens as well.

309
00:34:20,240 --> 00:34:26,740
My uncle was big into bodybuilding and that was the first time I seen a set of weights.

310
00:34:27,240 --> 00:34:29,740
First time I seen a proper bicep.

311
00:34:30,240 --> 00:34:35,740
I still remember him flexing his bicep when I was like 10 or maybe 10 years of age.

312
00:34:36,240 --> 00:34:39,740
I was like taken back by the size of it.

313
00:34:39,740 --> 00:34:50,240
And again, looking up to someone as strong as him, I wanted to be like that because as I mentioned earlier, I didn't feel that level of strength within.

314
00:34:50,740 --> 00:34:52,240
I felt anxious. I felt weak.

315
00:34:52,740 --> 00:34:53,240
I felt soft.

316
00:34:53,740 --> 00:34:58,240
So I started weightlifting when I was 15.

317
00:34:58,740 --> 00:35:06,240
Got a weights bench and some dumbbells and barbells for my 16th birthday, I think.

318
00:35:06,240 --> 00:35:09,740
I was in my room when I was 16.

319
00:35:10,240 --> 00:35:16,740
So I started doing a lot of training and that was a big interest along with the kickboxing at the time.

320
00:35:17,240 --> 00:35:26,740
So sports was a huge element of my life and that influenced my decision then to go into sports science, which I did a year in.

321
00:35:31,240 --> 00:35:32,740
Something happened then when I was 18.

322
00:35:32,740 --> 00:35:39,240
I was actually after my first week in college and I had gone on to do sports science.

323
00:35:39,740 --> 00:35:42,240
I got into a sports science course in college.

324
00:35:42,740 --> 00:35:49,240
Finished my first week but I arrived home that Thursday after a few days in college.

325
00:35:49,740 --> 00:35:59,240
And something I would often do is take my dad's car for a drive and take it to the town to get something in the shop.

326
00:35:59,240 --> 00:36:05,740
And every single time I took the car though, I took the piss as well because I would take the car.

327
00:36:06,240 --> 00:36:09,740
I would get in touch with one or two of my mates and say, come on, go for a drive.

328
00:36:10,240 --> 00:36:14,740
I've got the car here and we go for a drive and we have a bit of crack.

329
00:36:15,240 --> 00:36:16,740
We talk and catch up.

330
00:36:17,240 --> 00:36:18,740
And that's what we did that Thursday.

331
00:36:18,740 --> 00:36:32,240
But on this fateful day, I took his car with three friends of mine and took a corner too fast and then crashed into the oncoming car.

332
00:36:32,740 --> 00:36:36,240
And the lady who was driving that car, she died on the scene.

333
00:36:36,740 --> 00:36:41,240
So that changed a lot from that point forward.

334
00:36:41,740 --> 00:36:46,240
I sort of checked out of college.

335
00:36:46,240 --> 00:36:50,740
I was still showing up, I was still going but I checked out of it.

336
00:36:51,240 --> 00:36:53,740
Shortly after that, I wasn't interested.

337
00:36:54,240 --> 00:36:55,740
I was just up there, I was drinking.

338
00:36:56,240 --> 00:37:06,740
Again, it was an escapism for me because I wasn't at home where all those reminders were, where all those people were that knew what I'd done, that knew what happened.

339
00:37:06,740 --> 00:37:17,240
And I could run away to college and drink and party and be with people that didn't really know me that well and certainly didn't know what happened, didn't have a lot of information on it.

340
00:37:17,740 --> 00:37:25,240
And that's what I did for a few months up until I think it was the accident happened in September, Christmas time.

341
00:37:25,740 --> 00:37:29,240
I told my parents I don't want to go back anymore because I just don't want to be here.

342
00:37:29,740 --> 00:37:31,240
Really what I wanted to do was go home.

343
00:37:31,740 --> 00:37:35,240
I wanted to be at home because it's where probably I felt safe.

344
00:37:35,240 --> 00:37:41,740
Again, I was 18, I was scared, I was vulnerable, I felt very lonely.

345
00:37:42,240 --> 00:37:46,740
And they encouraged me to go back.

346
00:37:47,240 --> 00:37:49,740
So I went back to college then for a few more months.

347
00:37:50,240 --> 00:37:51,740
But as I said, I checked out.

348
00:37:52,240 --> 00:38:03,740
So I went through that summer, a lot of drinking and then again trying to make a decision in terms of where to go next.

349
00:38:03,740 --> 00:38:14,240
And then eventually I moved to Sligo and started a business in sports course in Sligo, the town that I live in right now.

350
00:38:14,740 --> 00:38:29,240
And that became probably another, it was a four-year course, but certainly three years of that was a lot of heavy drinking, a lot of partying, a lot of escapism,

351
00:38:29,240 --> 00:38:37,740
and just a lot of suppression of pain through distractions and through the substances that I used.

352
00:38:38,240 --> 00:38:40,740
Porn again, being another huge one.

353
00:38:41,240 --> 00:38:48,740
And yeah, that certainly influenced my success in college,

354
00:38:49,240 --> 00:38:53,740
certainly influenced my decisions in terms of what I wanted to do and who I wanted to become.

355
00:38:53,740 --> 00:39:03,240
Because I carry that level of self-hatred with me, I carry that level of guilt with me, I carry that level of pain and trauma with me for all of those years.

356
00:39:03,740 --> 00:39:12,240
And obviously that had a huge knock-on effect that I only realized the impact of that again after I came out the other side of it.

357
00:39:12,740 --> 00:39:17,240
Because when I was in it, I couldn't see it for what it was.

358
00:39:17,740 --> 00:39:22,240
I was telling everyone I was okay, telling everyone that yeah, it's fine, I'm over it.

359
00:39:22,240 --> 00:39:23,740
I've worked through it.

360
00:39:24,240 --> 00:39:28,740
And then every single night I went out drinking, I was blackout drunk.

361
00:39:29,240 --> 00:39:35,740
And again, never stopping to ask the questions of okay, why is this happening?

362
00:39:36,240 --> 00:39:39,740
And as well as that, I'm away from parents, I'm away from family.

363
00:39:40,240 --> 00:39:43,740
Nobody really knew what I was doing.

364
00:39:44,240 --> 00:39:46,740
I don't think they knew what I was doing in college.

365
00:39:47,240 --> 00:39:48,740
So no questions were asked.

366
00:39:48,740 --> 00:39:53,240
I would show up at home at the weekends, say everything was fine.

367
00:39:53,740 --> 00:39:56,240
I had a good week, I'd say no more.

368
00:39:56,740 --> 00:40:08,240
So there's a huge something else that I find in a lot of men who are carrying pain or trauma is that they're, and it was true for me,

369
00:40:08,740 --> 00:40:16,240
is that they're afraid to go towards that pain or to feel the pain because if they allow themselves to go there,

370
00:40:16,240 --> 00:40:20,740
they fear that they won't get back, they fear that they'll get stuck there.

371
00:40:21,240 --> 00:40:23,740
But it's quite the opposite.

372
00:40:24,240 --> 00:40:26,740
You're stuck there because you're not going back.

373
00:40:27,240 --> 00:40:28,740
At least this was true for me.

374
00:40:29,240 --> 00:40:32,740
You're stuck there because you're not going back, you're not revisiting the pain, you're not allowing yourself to process it.

375
00:40:33,240 --> 00:40:39,740
And you're stuck because you're not going backwards in order to move forward, move on with your life.

376
00:40:39,740 --> 00:40:47,240
So yeah, that was obviously a huge episode of my life.

377
00:40:47,740 --> 00:40:51,240
Were there any legal ramifications of the accident?

378
00:40:51,740 --> 00:41:01,240
Yeah, I was in court maybe 18 months after it happened and I was charged with dangerous driving causing death.

379
00:41:01,240 --> 00:41:09,740
And there was a risk of imprisonment, but massive credit to my mom and my dad.

380
00:41:10,240 --> 00:41:17,740
They did a lot of work to keep me out of jail, got me the best possible solicitor.

381
00:41:18,240 --> 00:41:27,740
And this guy had quite a high success rate in terms of helping young men who get involved in similar situations as I was in.

382
00:41:27,740 --> 00:41:46,240
They got hundreds of references from people that knew me, teachers, coaches, people that knew me that were in highly prestigious positions.

383
00:41:46,740 --> 00:41:50,240
So all these were brought to the judge on the day.

384
00:41:50,240 --> 00:42:04,740
And the most significant part of that was three of the deceased woman's sisters showed up on the day of the court.

385
00:42:05,240 --> 00:42:09,740
I didn't expect this. I don't think anybody knew that they were going to show up.

386
00:42:09,740 --> 00:42:20,240
And they sat at the back of the court and one of the sisters decided to go to the stand.

387
00:42:20,740 --> 00:42:26,240
Maybe this was expected that some of the family members would show up. I wasn't too sure how this was going to play out.

388
00:42:26,240 --> 00:42:41,740
And she stood up next to the judge and told the judge that she and her family did not want me to be imprisoned or to go to jail.

389
00:42:41,740 --> 00:43:06,240
And that was massive. That level of forgiveness, level of empathy, level of care, level of consideration is something again that's had an incredibly huge impact on my life.

390
00:43:06,240 --> 00:43:23,740
I think it really influences the type of work I do today because again a lot of men do a great job of beating themselves up, criticizing their past behaviors and actions and things they've done wrong and really struggle to forgive themselves.

391
00:43:23,740 --> 00:43:37,240
But I think no matter what you've done, to a certain extent, no matter what you've done, if you've killed somebody or you've done something extreme, that might be outside of the equation.

392
00:43:37,740 --> 00:43:50,240
But within that, if there's something you've done that you feel is so wrong, so bad, that you're a bad person because you've done it, you just struggle to forgive yourself.

393
00:43:50,240 --> 00:43:57,740
It's to know that there's actually somebody out there that has that level of forgiveness and has that level of love and consideration for you.

394
00:43:58,240 --> 00:44:04,740
And that in itself could be enough just to give you the initiative to move forward in your life.

395
00:44:04,740 --> 00:44:28,240
And again, at the time, I didn't really appreciate it as much as I do now. I haven't come through the other side of it because the big thing during those years was the level of hatred and the level of guilt, the level of shame that I felt over what I had done.

396
00:44:28,240 --> 00:44:37,740
And the deceased woman's family have been nothing but supportive to me ever since that incident happened.

397
00:44:38,240 --> 00:44:42,740
I'm not in touch with them anymore. I don't see them anymore. But during those years, they were incredibly supportive.

398
00:44:42,740 --> 00:44:58,240
The weekend of the accident, I was allowed to go to her brother's house where the wake was and go and say my goodbyes and pay my respects.

399
00:44:58,240 --> 00:45:12,740
They opened up that door for me and they allowed me to go there when nobody else was going there because if people from the public were there, it could be quite difficult for me and for them.

400
00:45:12,740 --> 00:45:27,240
There could be a lot of questions asked. And ever since it happened, they've been very supportive and very forgiving. And even I would have bumped into her nephews in that small village, that small town I come from.

401
00:45:27,240 --> 00:45:42,740
You can't really hide away from these people. Her nephews would come up to me and there was never any blame. There was never any animosity, never any hatred, at least to my face anyway.

402
00:45:42,740 --> 00:45:58,240
And I would be there in a pub, whatever, drinking my sixth or seventh pint and feeling sorry for myself or pretending to have a good time. One of her nephews would come up to me and I would tell him, I can't believe what I've done.

403
00:45:58,740 --> 00:46:07,240
I'm such a dick and I'm so sorry for what's happened here. And he's like, that could have been any one of us.

404
00:46:07,240 --> 00:46:15,740
Me and my brothers could have taken my dad's car and caused an accident. It wasn't an accident. You didn't mean for this to happen. But to me at the time, that just went over my head.

405
00:46:16,240 --> 00:46:32,740
What I wanted to hear was what I believed about myself was, yeah, you're a dick. We hate you. Can't believe you've done this. You're such a bad person. And that would have just confirmed, that would have satisfied the belief that I held within.

406
00:46:32,740 --> 00:46:51,240
So a huge part of this process has been forgiving myself for what happened. That's been the final piece really that I've only got to, I'd say, this year. Yeah, I would say this year. I've only got to that point. 21 years later.

407
00:46:51,240 --> 00:47:02,740
I mean, that is such a powerful story. I mean, all the pieces, obviously, and as you said, the shame and the guilt from a mistake. And this is something that I talk about a lot in America.

408
00:47:03,240 --> 00:47:16,740
The driving standards here are so low and then you add in the mental health crisis, these troubled youth that are overcoming things through alcohol or whatever it is, and that may result in an accident on the road as well.

409
00:47:16,740 --> 00:47:30,240
But to hear that level of forgiveness as well, and I've heard that before and I've shared videos of people that forgave the murder of their son. I mean, just talking like deliberate shooting.

410
00:47:30,240 --> 00:47:49,740
I mean, none of us will know if we're capable of it until we're tested and I hope none of us do, but that is so incredibly powerful because as you said, the expected result is hate. And that's only going to create more hate in the world.

411
00:47:49,740 --> 00:48:07,240
So the maturity and the compassion of their family to not only obviously help them heal themselves because that is a very healing thing to be able to forgive, but also to give that gift to the person who took away their sister.

412
00:48:07,740 --> 00:48:12,240
I mean, incredible, absolutely incredible. So I'm so glad you shared that. Thank you.

413
00:48:12,240 --> 00:48:27,740
So you mentioned about the negative coping mechanisms. Obviously, you know, I've talked about alcoholism, some of these other things many, many times on here, but the porn addiction is kind of one of the ones that's under the rug a little bit.

414
00:48:28,240 --> 00:48:38,740
When you look physiologically at a climax, especially a man, there is a down regulation of the nervous system. So whether it's porn or infidelity, there's a physiological reason there.

415
00:48:38,740 --> 00:48:49,240
Talk to me about the solace that you found in porn. And then I want to kind of add something as well. Did you find yourself then requiring more and more extreme porn?

416
00:48:49,740 --> 00:49:05,240
Because I look at it, you know, a lot of times you look at some things that are kind of flashing, you know, because of course I've been on porn sites too, and you have your vanilla porn and then you have the other end of the spectrum, you know, and it seems like I can't help but feel like a lot of people aren't in the vanilla anymore.

417
00:49:05,240 --> 00:49:22,740
And I would assume that that was an overstimulation of whatever, you know, receptors that is in the brain that as you progress and you keep watching it, there's a downward spiral in the kind of porn that you're watching to or the kind of porn that you need to get you off.

418
00:49:22,740 --> 00:49:41,240
Yeah, yeah, that the dopamine effect just, it just doesn't have the same impact anymore based on what you're potentially frequently exposing yourself to.

419
00:49:41,240 --> 00:49:53,740
So perhaps in a way it just becomes a lot more expected and therefore not as exciting because you know what's coming and it doesn't really have that thrilling aspect to it.

420
00:49:53,740 --> 00:50:22,240
But yeah, my journey with porn has been an interesting one, again coming from a Catholic family where, you know, possibly sex is something that's, sex and nudity is probably something that has a lot of stigma and shame attached to it.

421
00:50:22,240 --> 00:50:41,740
Perhaps not consciously, but subconsciously it's certainly there and I think that had an impact and not to sort of point fingers or blame anybody here, but I remember when I was maybe 15 or 16, I had this diary, always kept diaries and I still write in a journal today.

422
00:50:41,740 --> 00:51:01,240
That's something else that has been quite a useful tool in my life, but I had these paper cutouts of maybe page three models or whatever in my diary and had it hidden under my bed and my mum found it one day and she made me throw it into the fire.

423
00:51:01,240 --> 00:51:24,740
She was so disgusted about what she found. Now, I think it was shortly after my grandmother died and she was probably going through her own difficulty there and again, I don't blame her for what she did, but the point I'm trying to make is how that potentially warped my feelings and my belief around nudity and around sex.

424
00:51:24,740 --> 00:51:40,240
It's, oh, this is bad. I shouldn't be looking at naked women and it's almost like the poison chalice and the more you feel like you shouldn't have something, the more you sort of want it as well and then it becomes very secretive.

425
00:51:40,240 --> 00:51:54,740
I always sort of had that double life perhaps and I go back before the porn days or even during the porn days in my house.

426
00:51:55,240 --> 00:52:05,740
I had my own bedroom and in that bedroom, I would lock the door and I could have the music blaring. I'd be playing at loads of albums.

427
00:52:05,740 --> 00:52:17,240
I loved music, still do to this day, but rock was my preferred genre. So it would be Queen or Guns of Roses or Metallica or Green Day or one of those bands.

428
00:52:17,740 --> 00:52:30,240
But in that bedroom, I would be going fucking mental with the music. It's a form of expression and I was free to do whatever I want.

429
00:52:30,240 --> 00:52:41,740
Nobody's looking at me. Nobody's going to shame me. Nobody's going to laugh at me. But then unlock the door, walk into the kitchen or walk into somewhere else in the house where my parents were.

430
00:52:42,240 --> 00:52:54,740
Very different person. So I wouldn't express myself in the same way. I would keep that part of my identity or part of my characteristics hidden from view.

431
00:52:54,740 --> 00:53:07,240
I think porn sort of just latched on to that. So that sort of double life that I lived, very secretive life where I can go over here and I can listen to music and express myself and be free.

432
00:53:07,740 --> 00:53:20,240
Then it was I can go over here and I can express myself through porn. I can watch whatever I want and be free to indulge myself in these pleasures. Nobody has to know. It's all very secret. It's all very private.

433
00:53:20,240 --> 00:53:28,740
So that then became the thing. Music didn't do it anymore. It wasn't getting the same thrill of music so I had to find something else.

434
00:53:29,240 --> 00:53:43,740
I remember I'd always be doing things to piss my parents off subconsciously but I remember they were away for a few days. Just a trip away, a break away for a few days.

435
00:53:43,740 --> 00:53:50,240
I think it was maybe 16 or 17 at the time. Old enough to be left at home for a few days or at least they thought.

436
00:53:50,740 --> 00:54:08,240
Myself and my friend decided not to go to school for those few days when they were away. So my friend would come from his house and sneak into my house and we'd spend all day in my house eating or watching movies.

437
00:54:08,240 --> 00:54:21,740
But then we also found something else. This was sort of the beginning of the internet. We're old enough to remember dial-up internet and life before internet.

438
00:54:22,240 --> 00:54:36,740
When the internet came I was like, wow, holy fuck. We can see naked women just with a click of a button. We can open up a whole new world which maybe people of this generation can't understand.

439
00:54:36,740 --> 00:54:50,240
But for me and you, I think we know what we're talking about here. We got into these chat rooms where there were sexual chat rooms and there were loads of different chat rooms.

440
00:54:50,240 --> 00:55:05,740
What we did was we pretended to be a woman and we downloaded all these images of this naked woman. She had maybe 20 images of her topless or naked or whatever else.

441
00:55:05,740 --> 00:55:21,240
We'd go into these chat rooms and chat to other women or at least other women. Could be men on the other side. Then we would start chatting with them.

442
00:55:21,240 --> 00:55:37,740
Then we started exchanging photos and we'd send them a photo of our woman and then they'd send a photo of themselves or most likely a collection that they had. Then it became this exchange of photos and built up a whole gallery of naked women.

443
00:55:38,240 --> 00:55:46,740
I was like, fuck, this is cool. This is amazing. We can get different photos of all these random women from all over the world.

444
00:55:46,740 --> 00:55:57,240
Then of course we got caught and we were suspended from school and whatever else happened after that.

445
00:55:57,740 --> 00:56:12,240
But that had a knock-on effect with me in terms of, holy fuck, this is actually very exciting and thrilling. I can actually get photos of naked women by pretending to be somebody else.

446
00:56:12,240 --> 00:56:24,740
That was the start of something quite extreme. So again, for a long time I pretended to be this woman. Maybe not for a long time, maybe for a few months.

447
00:56:25,240 --> 00:56:38,740
Then I started to go, okay, what if I pretend to be myself and I'll start chatting with these women and then I'll lure them in some way into sending me photos of them.

448
00:56:38,740 --> 00:56:44,240
That sort of began to happen and there was an exchange of photos from me to them and back and forth.

449
00:56:44,740 --> 00:57:01,240
Then it went on to webcams. There was no such thing as webcams back then. Webcams then became a thing. You could actually attach a webcam to your computer or maybe your laptop.

450
00:57:01,240 --> 00:57:08,740
I think maybe after that, yeah, I got a laptop and you can start chatting these women from these chat rooms or from somewhere else.

451
00:57:09,240 --> 00:57:16,740
Yahoo Messenger I think was maybe the one that I used. I started chatting these women and my only intention was I want to get this woman naked.

452
00:57:16,740 --> 00:57:31,240
I want to get into some sexual or explicit conversation or exchanges of photos or not exchanges of photos, exchanges of webcam viewing.

453
00:57:31,740 --> 00:57:38,240
She's getting naked, I'm getting naked. Again, that was something else that was very thrilling and exciting.

454
00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:49,740
Like you mentioned, there was photos, webcams and then on the side, you could go to Google and you could get these naked pictures but then it became videos.

455
00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:58,740
Then it was very, as you mentioned, soft core and amateur at the beginning and then started to grow into something more extreme.

456
00:57:58,740 --> 00:58:09,240
But the webcam thing was something that really appealed to me and perhaps I sort of justified that as this is not really porn.

457
00:58:09,740 --> 00:58:18,240
It's not really porn. Porn is only if you're masturbating to photos or if you're masturbating to videos of women.

458
00:58:18,740 --> 00:58:22,240
This is not really porn. This is a bit more real. So I sort of justified it in that way.

459
00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:30,740
Now, this is during my teenage years and it's during those years as well, I did struggle massively with confidence around women.

460
00:58:31,240 --> 00:58:42,740
So again, perhaps, not perhaps, probably based on my earlier experiences that I talked about before the trauma and not allowing someone to get too close and to get too close.

461
00:58:43,240 --> 00:58:49,740
I get quite anxious and when that did happen in sort of intimate situations with women as a teenager, I would get anxious.

462
00:58:49,740 --> 00:58:53,240
And of course, if you're anxious, nothing's going to fucking happen.

463
00:58:53,740 --> 00:59:08,240
So every type of situation that I got into with a woman that would potentially lead to an intimate situation, I then started to avoid because I was like, yeah, but I know I'm going to struggle.

464
00:59:08,740 --> 00:59:16,240
I'm not going to be able to perform, but I can go over here and I can go on this webcam and I can do whatever I want there.

465
00:59:16,240 --> 00:59:21,740
And I felt somewhat more at ease, more comfortable because she's not in the room.

466
00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:28,740
I can switch this webcam off anytime I want. And there was an element of safety there because it wasn't physical.

467
00:59:29,240 --> 00:59:40,740
So then again, based on what I wasn't getting in reality, this fantasy became a lot more, just a tightness grip on me a lot more.

468
00:59:40,740 --> 01:00:04,240
So that became the thing. And yeah, this kind of journey went on where sort of just that double life of not getting what I desired or wanted in reality and instead finding it in fantasy through these women that I was never going to meet.

469
01:00:04,240 --> 01:00:13,740
Now during those years, I'm trying to think now, but during those years, it sort of simmered down for a period of time.

470
01:00:14,240 --> 01:00:18,740
The car accident happened then and it probably ramped back up again.

471
01:00:19,240 --> 01:00:29,740
Drink as well was a huge factor and any sort of escapism that I could find that wouldn't allow me to be alone with my thoughts at all.

472
01:00:29,740 --> 01:00:37,240
I remember going to bed and I wouldn't be able to sleep unless I was listening to music. So, and again, never question it.

473
01:00:37,740 --> 01:00:58,240
So, and to fast forward, because we'd be here all night talking about porn, but to fast forward to a time then later on in my life when I was working and two and a half years into this business with this company I was with, I was made redundant only after a couple of months after my daughter was born.

474
01:00:58,240 --> 01:01:05,740
And this again, I was 26, 27. There was no trauma process. There was no pain healed.

475
01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:19,740
And it was the first time in my life for probably the bulk of a year where I actually had time to do nothing while I decided to do nothing.

476
01:01:19,740 --> 01:01:32,240
I could have done a lot of things, decided to do nothing. So I'd be at home. I was a stay-at-home dad more or less from my daughter, but she'd go to bed and she would sleep for two, three, four hours sometimes in the afternoon.

477
01:01:32,740 --> 01:01:36,240
And I'm like, I can't leave the house because I have to look after her.

478
01:01:36,740 --> 01:01:43,240
And I was probably, not probably, I was feeling very sorry for myself, a little pity party for myself every single day.

479
01:01:43,240 --> 01:01:50,740
I was a poor me, stay-at-home dad, such a bum, but not doing anything about it. But then I found a soother, which was porn.

480
01:01:50,740 --> 01:02:16,240
But then I stumbled across these webcam chat rooms and this was again, something completely new where you'd be in these chat rooms and you turn your video on and everybody can fucking view you, see you, give you attention, praise, validation, all these things that I probably felt that was starved off at the time.

481
01:02:16,240 --> 01:02:27,740
Just kind of fill me up with their words and their compliments. And you're in there performing basically.

482
01:02:28,240 --> 01:02:35,740
So that became, fuck man, that became ecstasy, any opportunity I had, I was in that webcam chat room.

483
01:02:35,740 --> 01:02:52,240
But again, I started to work myself because the guilt of what happened in the car accident actually gave me the incentive to reach out for help through a counselor.

484
01:02:52,240 --> 01:03:06,740
I got talking to someone, started to improve myself, started to read books, started to really get to grips with the pain that I was carrying. And over that period of time, I realized that I've got to let this fucking thing go, got to let this webcam thing has to stop.

485
01:03:06,740 --> 01:03:26,240
I have to take responsibility for my life. And then I started a personal training business. So things were going really well. And like two years, maybe two years after I left that webcam, left the webcam chat rooms and stopped all that, I got a call from a friend one day, one was in the gym.

486
01:03:26,240 --> 01:03:36,740
And there was a sense of urgency in his voice, sense of panic in his voice. I was like, what the fuck, what's going on here? This is a friend that never calls me, by the way, never reaches out to me.

487
01:03:37,240 --> 01:03:48,740
And he calls me out of the blue and he tells me, Gavin, there's a video circulating of you in a webcam chat room. It's been circulating around Sligo, the place I live.

488
01:03:48,740 --> 01:04:10,240
One of the lads told me about it. And then I just got into a fucking haze of panic. And then a blur and a hurry and a rush. I got home onto the laptop, tried to remove that video off the porn site that I was on as soon as possible.

489
01:04:10,240 --> 01:04:25,740
Took two days for it to be removed, but a lot can happen in two days. A lot of people seen it. A lot of people seen me completely fucking exposed in a webcam chat room.

490
01:04:25,740 --> 01:04:40,240
And yeah, now everybody knows my secret. Now this is again, understanding a time when I was building a solid reputation as being possibly the most sought after person trainer in my town.

491
01:04:40,740 --> 01:04:47,240
Had a pretty successful online business too. Things were really starting to turn around for me. And then this comes out.

492
01:04:47,240 --> 01:05:00,740
And yeah, again, for two days I was pretty bad place. I'd linger for longer, but I was in a really bad place for two days. I had a mentor at the time that really helped me out.

493
01:05:00,740 --> 01:05:18,240
And I decided that I could either use this experience or I could be used by this experience. So I decided to use experience and help other men who are possibly struggling with the same thing that I did.

494
01:05:18,240 --> 01:05:32,740
Because I knew that 100%, I'm not the only person who is addicted to porn. Not the only person who has a problem with porn. I'm definitely not the only person who's also in these webcam chat rooms because I was in those webcam chat rooms and they were fucking full of people.

495
01:05:32,740 --> 01:05:51,240
And even if it's not porn, it's something else. It's some sort of other addiction. So I decided then to change my messaging, started to tell my story, started to put more in-depth content out there for men.

496
01:05:51,240 --> 01:06:05,740
It sort of shifted from fitness to mental health. And ever since, that's kind of been where it's at. I wrote and published a book that was then released maybe a year after that happened.

497
01:06:05,740 --> 01:06:30,240
So again, as I mentioned in the beginning, something really shitty had happened. I had to get to the bottom of the pit before I made a significant change in my life. And that change that I made back in 2016 or 2017 still has a ripple effect today on what I do.

498
01:06:30,240 --> 01:06:46,740
So there's value in these difficult situations that you may be experiencing in life. The struggles are actually there to perhaps veer you towards a new path of success and prosperity or something better in your life.

499
01:06:47,240 --> 01:06:49,740
At least that's been the case for me.

500
01:06:49,740 --> 01:07:08,240
There's so many people that have been on this show that have really struggled. And obviously then they've had to go through their own crucible and find the tools that work for them. And every single one of us obviously has an individual toolbox, which is why it's so dangerous to say, oh, this works for everyone. EMDR, talk therapy, drugs.

501
01:07:08,240 --> 01:07:19,740
But then what I see is in another layer of healing when they realize they can use their story and their journey to start helping other people and it puts purpose in their life. Did you have that same experience?

502
01:07:19,740 --> 01:07:47,240
Yeah, yeah. That's something I probably reflected back on quite recently is looking back at some of the content that I started posting after that instant and after I started to make that change in my life and change my message. A lot of the stuff I was putting out there was actually things that I wanted to believe about myself. It was actually things that I needed to hear myself.

503
01:07:47,240 --> 01:08:06,740
But I was putting it out there to other people. And I don't know if that's a good or bad thing. I think it does happen a lot with these content creators or people who are in that sort of self-development healing space that they're putting a lot of messages out there that are reflective of their own struggles in life.

504
01:08:06,740 --> 01:08:29,240
And as I said, I don't know if that's right or wrong, but I think you always need to ask the question, okay, whose needs am I actually serving here? Am I putting this out here to serve my own needs or am I putting this out here to maybe serve someone else's needs? Some of the needs to hear this today, some of the needs this message, some of the needs this inspiration, some of the needs to hear this story.

505
01:08:29,240 --> 01:08:51,740
So that's something I've started to question. Again, probably only this year started to question that. Anytime I put a post out there now, it's, okay, am I putting this out because I want to receive something back? I want to receive some validation or attention or likes or follows?

506
01:08:51,740 --> 01:09:12,240
Am I putting this out because I firmly believe that this piece of content or the story is actually going to help someone else out. So I think that's an important question. But that's my opinion. As I said, I don't know if there's a right or wrong with that. Be interested to hear your opinion on it actually.

507
01:09:12,240 --> 01:09:41,740
What I have seen is that I think most people go into it with good intentions. The problem is that social media can drag you down a very narcissistic path. And I've watched many people go from, this is my project, this is my passion, to every single video is them with or without their shirt off. You know what I mean? And you're like, okay, this is about you now. This is about the likes. And doesn't mean that you can't pull yourself back, but I see that a lot. And I ask myself that even when I'm doing this, I'm not pulling myself back.

508
01:09:42,240 --> 01:10:05,740
I assume with some posts that the point I want to make is valid, but is this really going to make a difference in a positive way? It might be right, but is it going to make a difference? And so then I'll pull myself back and go, okay, let's stay away from that topic. Let's focus on, just like you said, I want mine to actually put. I want someone to open it up and go, I feel a little better today. That's the community and kindness that I believe is in this country, for example.

509
01:10:05,740 --> 01:10:25,740
But if it becomes, this is me every single time and kind of imparting wisdom, like I'm the next freaking guru or Jesus Christ, then at what point do you kind of look in the mirror and go, you started well, but you've kind of fallen off a little bit. Let's try and find that true north again.

510
01:10:25,740 --> 01:10:41,740
Because if you've got something worth saying and you've got a story that people can learn from and find strength in, absolutely tell it. But yeah, be aware that the entire social media construct is designed for narcissism to thrive.

511
01:10:41,740 --> 01:11:01,740
Yeah, that's a great point by the way. I definitely got caught in that loop for a period of time. I was putting content out there that I knew would get a lot of likes and followers, comments.

512
01:11:01,740 --> 01:11:19,740
But those are the only reasons I put out there. But again, during the time I didn't have the awareness to realize what I was doing. But then as you mentioned, that algorithm can take a grip.

513
01:11:19,740 --> 01:11:38,740
And that happens to me quite often where I put a post out there and it might only get whatever, a thousand views. And I can't have to reflect back on myself and say, well, is what I said there authentic and genuine and was it done with good intentions?

514
01:11:38,740 --> 01:11:51,740
And if it was, then why am I worried about the views? Now, I might be a bit pissed off that it didn't reach more people, that it could potentially impact more people if it got a further reach. That might be the only thing.

515
01:11:51,740 --> 01:12:00,740
And then I put a post out there that's maybe 35,000 views or something like that. I think there's a recent one out there, 35,000 views.

516
01:12:00,740 --> 01:12:18,740
But again, it's the same question. It's like, do I really care about the views? And I do believe at this stage that the views don't matter to me. It's the message behind the content that's really important.

517
01:12:18,740 --> 01:12:34,740
It's asking that question of, okay, there's someone out there who is possibly in a similar situation as I was when I was 26 years of age, struggling, playing the victim, feels hopeless and feels like the whole world's against them.

518
01:12:34,740 --> 01:12:45,740
What did I need to hear back then that I could now deliver to them? And most of my content is based off that very question.

519
01:12:45,740 --> 01:13:01,740
I'd say, okay, I've been there, I've gone through it. But if I could give my previous self a little piece of wisdom or something that would initiate some element of hope or inspiration for me to make a move or for them to make a move, what could that be?

520
01:13:01,740 --> 01:13:20,740
We don't always get it right, but yeah, that algorithm is a beast. And if you don't have the self-awareness to understand that you're being pulled down that dark hole of narcissism, then you can get lost there for sure, 100%.

521
01:13:20,740 --> 01:13:34,740
You lose yourself, you lose the message and you're doing things that ultimately deep down inside you don't believe in, but you believe that it's going to bring the validation, the praise, the attention and the success.

522
01:13:34,740 --> 01:13:38,740
But it's success without substance.

523
01:13:38,740 --> 01:13:50,740
Yeah, it's funny. I see people that have clearly gone to one of those influencer workshops, the speaker workshops and all of a sudden now it's the same thing. They give them the same advice.

524
01:13:50,740 --> 01:13:58,740
And I think that people are so used to that it is an algorithm, it's a template rather than someone who's raw and authentic.

525
01:13:58,740 --> 01:14:08,740
We've all seen those videos where it's a guy broke down in tears in his car talking about something or whatever it is and you're like, okay, this is genuine. I'm going to listen to this.

526
01:14:08,740 --> 01:14:13,740
But if anything starts with, hey guys, it's going to be shit.

527
01:14:13,740 --> 01:14:19,740
You got to get the right hook line now, isn't it? That's all about the hook line.

528
01:14:19,740 --> 01:14:26,740
Exactly. Exactly. All right. Well, I want to get to what you're doing now. So talk to me about the Modern Warrior program.

529
01:14:26,740 --> 01:14:51,740
Well, the Modern Warrior program is a lot of what I've talked about already in terms of bringing men from a place of lack, a place where they struggle with their self-esteem, a place where they're maybe a little lost or a place where they feel like a lot of the men that they've reached out to, they have achieved a lot in their life.

530
01:14:51,740 --> 01:15:01,740
They've succeeded. They have the money. They've got the car. They've got the family. They're high up in their career, but they still feel like they're lacking.

531
01:15:01,740 --> 01:15:16,740
They still feel that level of emptiness inside and it's to then help them fill that up, fill up whatever they feel has been somewhat maybe neglected due to the pursuit of success on the outside.

532
01:15:16,740 --> 01:15:32,740
Because again, we get caught into that system of believing that when I am successful, when I have the money, when I have the car, when I've got the family, then I'll be the man. Then I'll be happy.

533
01:15:32,740 --> 01:15:40,740
Then I'll have it sorted. Then I've got all my shit together. It's like, no, that's not it. I'm sure you've experienced that. I've certainly experienced it.

534
01:15:40,740 --> 01:16:06,740
This pursuit of happiness is actually a pursuit of healing the parts within that in a way initiated that journey towards achievement, towards success, but then realizing that that's not the thing that's going to bring you that level of fulfillment or contentment or peace within.

535
01:16:06,740 --> 01:16:20,740
A lot of the men that reach out to me are at that place. Some men reach out and they're struggling with addiction, maybe porn or alcohol or maybe some other substance. A lot of men these days do struggle with cocaine as well.

536
01:16:20,740 --> 01:16:37,740
Now, everyone that reaches out mainly are still quite functional. They're still getting up. They still have a job. They're still moving forward, but it's just they feel that there's something lacking and they don't understand what it is.

537
01:16:37,740 --> 01:17:05,740
It's my role then to help them uncover that. They usually reach out at a time when they've potentially lost something significant, lost a girlfriend, lost a marriage, lost a job, lost some sort of opportunity, and begin to realize that, okay, this has been happening quite frequently.

538
01:17:05,740 --> 01:17:19,740
This has happened before. I thought if I pursued this again that I would have had it sorted or could find that thing and then I'd feel good about it again, but then realizing that, okay, hang on a second. Maybe it's me.

539
01:17:19,740 --> 01:17:35,740
Maybe it's something in me that's causing this to happen. There's perhaps a point of realization in every man's life where, as I mentioned, they feel like they have it all, but they're still lacking something there.

540
01:17:35,740 --> 01:17:57,740
They just don't know where to find it. So it's my role, as I said, to bring them on that journey to finding their true self that they've potentially repressed or suppressed in their earlier years. They've been living this life that was carved out for them by teachers or parents.

541
01:17:57,740 --> 01:18:14,740
It's not one that they felt or feel that's true for them. If it was up to them, they'd be living a very different life in a very different situation and exacting very different actions and behaviors. It's to bring that part of them back into their life.

542
01:18:14,740 --> 01:18:36,740
That's part of it. Then getting their body and their physical shape as well is quite important. Their physical health and their well-being is very important too. I merge both of those things in. It's basically like the title of the first book I wrote, which is Stronger Mind, Stronger Body, Stronger Life.

543
01:18:36,740 --> 01:18:45,740
You combine the mind, the body, your life will look after itself. If that answers your question.

544
01:18:45,740 --> 01:19:00,740
It does. Just before we find out where people can find the course in the books, what are some of the tools that you bring to the table that these men haven't had on their radar before?

545
01:19:00,740 --> 01:19:21,740
Quite simply, it's about creating a safe space for men to just express whatever feelings or thoughts that they've been carrying with them that they've not felt safe enough to be able to share with someone else in their life.

546
01:19:21,740 --> 01:19:39,740
Especially their wife or their spouse is someone that they struggle to open up to because there's that expectation on men to be strong and assertive and masculine and not to be too emotional and not to break down in front of a woman.

547
01:19:39,740 --> 01:19:52,740
They hide that part of themselves in a relationship, which of course creates problems in the relationship because you're not showing up as your best version. You're carrying a lot of baggage and a lot of things that are weighing you down.

548
01:19:52,740 --> 01:20:02,740
That's the first part is just to understand that this is a safe space. I'm not here to judge because I've been where you are to some degree.

549
01:20:02,740 --> 01:20:14,740
I spend a lot of time hating myself and criticizing myself and beating myself up. I've been lost and I've been depressed and I've been anxious. I understand what you're going through. I'm not here to judge you. I'm meeting you at your level.

550
01:20:14,740 --> 01:20:42,740
First of all, that's one of the most important aspects. Along with that then, it's about creating space in their own life to be alone. In that place of peace without distraction, they can allow for whatever feelings or thoughts that are coming up for them in their life that they're usually distracting themselves to avoid.

551
01:20:42,740 --> 01:20:57,740
Which again, I've done. I'm sure you've perhaps done. Certainly a lot of men do. These distractions could be deemed as healthy things. Working, going to the gym, doing sports, even watching TV.

552
01:20:57,740 --> 01:21:12,740
But there's no element of, hang on a second, did I stop here for a few minutes and check in with myself today? Did I stop here and just pay attention to what's going on within me instead of paying attention to everything that's happening around me?

553
01:21:12,740 --> 01:21:27,740
That's a very important tool that I've taken on board and something I share with them. But not just to sit there with these thoughts and feelings and become overwhelmed with them, but to give them a tool then to help them process the painful feelings or emotions.

554
01:21:27,740 --> 01:21:44,740
That is usually a journal. I'm a massive advocate for a journal. They're writing things down and they're processing thoughts and they're putting some structure on their feelings. Again, bringing it back to me, it gives us something else to have a conversation about because things might be coming up.

555
01:21:44,740 --> 01:22:02,740
You don't know why they're there. I've got this feeling, but I'm not too sure where it's coming from. It's usually something linked to, again, as I mentioned before, a very early experience that you possibly repressed or suppressed because it's too painful to revisit that.

556
01:22:02,740 --> 01:22:26,740
So we had that conversation. Again, it opens up more doors for them to become more aware of why they're thinking and acting and behaving in a certain way based on a story they've created in their early life and then to help them change the story to something more empowering, something more positive that brings more empowering and positive results and outcomes in their life.

557
01:22:26,740 --> 01:22:42,740
So conversation is really important. I do speak to them twice a week and combine that with the physical element too, which they go into the gym. They've got more energy then to transfer into their healing journey as well because they're looking after themselves.

558
01:22:42,740 --> 01:23:03,740
They've got the nutrition on track. They're sleeping better. They feel better. They look better. And along with that too, it's really just about being able to be present with yourself. We can't be present with ourselves, I don't believe in it, unless you're a guru of some sort.

559
01:23:03,740 --> 01:23:13,740
We can't be present with ourselves every single minute of the day, but allowing yourself to be present with yourself in certain opportunities of the day and catching those triggers when they do arrive.

560
01:23:13,740 --> 01:23:24,740
So your kids may say something or your wife may say something or your boss may say something or somebody behaves in a certain way and it provokes you.

561
01:23:24,740 --> 01:23:43,740
But that's information for you to take on board because it's provoking an underlying pain that you've not yet addressed. All you're hearing is noise coming out of somebody's mouth, but you're applying some sort of meaning to that based on something that you believe about yourself.

562
01:23:43,740 --> 01:23:58,740
So that pain or that insecurity or whatever that might be, that struggle just comes to the surface. It's like, okay, catch that. That's a trigger. And there's teachings in the triggers. And again, that's something that I help them overcome.

563
01:23:58,740 --> 01:24:13,740
Not to avoid these triggers, but ultimately to see them as opportunities to further your growth and progress. And I had a man reach out to me there at the beginning of this year, maybe six months ago.

564
01:24:13,740 --> 01:24:33,740
And he was in a really bad place in his marriage. He was having a lot of difficulties with his wife who was going through postnatal depression. And he wasn't able to withstand the level of conflict and her temperament during her difficulties.

565
01:24:33,740 --> 01:24:57,740
And he would run away from it. He'd distract himself from it. He would use excuses such as work or not be home at certain times of the day just to avoid the pain that he felt whenever she was expressing her difficulties, which was often directed towards him.

566
01:24:57,740 --> 01:25:12,740
So we went through that process and we understood that this was something that was linked to his earlier experiences, whereas mum was angry with him as a child. And this is again the fear of the angry mother. If the mother is angry, then I believe she doesn't love me anymore.

567
01:25:12,740 --> 01:25:24,740
And I can't do what the mother that doesn't love me can't survive, but the mother that doesn't want me. So I better do everything I can to keep her happy. So she'll continue to love me and she won't leave me.

568
01:25:24,740 --> 01:25:47,740
So again, it's been triggered by his wife. Now only this week he reached out to me and he's a completely different man. His wife, her whatever expressions of anger or rage, which she has less frequently now, he's going towards it.

569
01:25:47,740 --> 01:26:02,740
He's going great. Here's an opportunity for me to help her feel safe, help her feel protected, help her feel loved. And the more he's been doing that, obviously the less frequently the outburst of anger have been because she feels safer.

570
01:26:02,740 --> 01:26:17,740
She trusts him. And that's all based on changing the stories that he believed about himself based on the reactions of his mother when he expressed himself or when she expressed himself in his earlier years. So that's the impact of that.

571
01:26:17,740 --> 01:26:27,740
And that's a very short snippet of a success story of one of the guys I work with. So yeah.

572
01:26:27,740 --> 01:26:28,740
Brilliant.

573
01:26:28,740 --> 01:26:29,740
That's about it.

574
01:26:29,740 --> 01:26:32,740
Well, where can people find it? Most importantly?

575
01:26:32,740 --> 01:26:58,740
Well, people can find me on any social media site. I'll be down. You'll find me at Gavin Meenan. It's just my full name, Gavin Meenan. And if there's another Gavin Meenan out there, he's pretty pissed off because I've put that handle on every single social media site, TikTok, Instagram's the name one.

576
01:26:58,740 --> 01:27:13,740
Facebook, don't do much on Twitter, but Instagram is the main one you'll find me on. So Gavin Meenan, if you reach out to me there, I'll happily reply to your DM and help you out in any way I can.

577
01:27:13,740 --> 01:27:23,740
Beautiful. Well, Gavin, I want to say thank you so much. It's been an amazing conversation. I also want to say thank you because I was a guest on your podcast, which you have a podcast as well for people out there.

578
01:27:23,740 --> 01:27:24,740
Brilliant conversation. Yes.

579
01:27:24,740 --> 01:27:31,740
So, but yeah, I want to thank you so much for coming on mine this time and being so generous with your time.

580
01:27:31,740 --> 01:27:57,740
Again, a privilege and honor and yeah, very excited for us to come for you and for anyone listening to this podcast, go and check out my conversation with this good man as well. Really, really enjoyed that episode. So go and check it out.