1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:09,000
This episode is sponsored by Transcend, a veteran owned and operated performance optimization company that I introduced recently as a sponsor on this show.

2
00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:14,080
Well, since then, I have actually been using my products and I've had incredible success.

3
00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:20,240
There was initial blood work that was extremely detailed and based on that, they offered supplementation.

4
00:00:20,240 --> 00:00:31,120
So I began taking DHEA, BPC 157 for inflammation based on the fact that I've been a stump man and martial artist and a firefighter my whole life, lots of aches and pains,

5
00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:37,120
dihexer to help cognition after multiple punches to the head and shift work and peptides.

6
00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:48,280
Four months later, they did a detailed blood work again and I was actually able to taper off two of the peptides because my body had responded so well to just one of them that it was optimized at that point.

7
00:00:48,280 --> 00:01:01,680
So I cannot speak highly enough of the immense range of supplementation that they offer, whether it's male health, female health, peptides to boost your own testosterone, which I would argue is needed by a lot of the fire service,

8
00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:06,960
or whether it's exogenous testosterone needed, especially after TBIs or advanced age.

9
00:01:07,320 --> 00:01:13,560
Now, as I mentioned before, the other side of this company is an altruistic arm called the Transcend Foundation,

10
00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:19,120
which is putting veterans and first responders through some of their protocols free of charge.

11
00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:28,120
Now Transcend are also offering you the audience 10% off their protocols and you can find that on jamesgearing.com under the products tab.

12
00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:39,800
And if you want to hear more about Transcend and their story, listen to episode 808 with the founder Ernie Colling or go to Transcend company.com.

13
00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:46,240
Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast. As always, my name is James Gearing and this week it is my absolute honor to welcome on the show

14
00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:55,880
US Air Force Trauma Nurse and the author of Memoirs of a War Nurse Service Honor and Sacrifice, Christine Collins.

15
00:01:56,400 --> 00:02:04,040
Now in this conversation, we discuss a host of topics from her journey into the military, the medical training she received,

16
00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:13,440
the slew of trauma patients she encountered immediately after deployment, the kindness and compassion she saw from her fellow men and women in uniform,

17
00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:23,000
the inability to save, compassion fatigue, her own mental health journey, catharsis through writing and so much more.

18
00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:30,640
Now, before we get to this incredible conversation, as I say every week, please just take a moment, go to whichever app you listen to this on,

19
00:02:30,640 --> 00:02:37,040
go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback and leave a rating.

20
00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:44,080
Every single five star rating truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making it easier for others to find.

21
00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:49,520
And this is a free library of almost 1000 episodes now.

22
00:02:49,520 --> 00:03:00,440
So all I ask in return is that you help share these incredible men and women stories so I can get them to every single person on planet Earth who needs to hear them.

23
00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:09,240
And just as a side note, I just released my own second book, Kinda, which is available on ebook and paperback on Amazon.

24
00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:18,760
So with that being said, I introduce to you Christine Collins. Enjoy.

25
00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:24,080
Well, Christine, I want to start by saying two things.

26
00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:27,080
Firstly, thank you to Tom for connecting us.

27
00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:30,760
And secondly, I want to welcome you onto the Behind the Shield podcast today.

28
00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:34,800
So where on planet Earth are we finding you this afternoon?

29
00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:39,840
Well, we are in the United States, in the United States, in the United States, in the United States.

30
00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:42,840
And we are here in the United States, in the United States, in the United States.

31
00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:48,840
So I'm here for a few weeks doing some business and then in a couple of weeks, I'll be back in D.C.

32
00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:52,840
Fantastic. Well, I would love to start at the very beginning of your timeline.

33
00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:58,840
So tell me where you were born and tell me a little bit about your family dynamic, what your parents did, how many siblings?

34
00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:02,840
Oh, I was born and raised in a very poor family.

35
00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:04,840
And I was raised in a very poor family.

36
00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:06,840
And I was raised in a very poor family.

37
00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:08,840
And I was raised in a very poor family.

38
00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:13,840
So tell me quickly what was your decision to move to D.C. and tell us about your family, what your family did, how many siblings.

39
00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:19,840
Oh, I was born and raised in a very small copper mining community in Miami, Arizona.

40
00:04:19,840 --> 00:04:22,840
It's about an hour and a half east of Phoenix.

41
00:04:22,840 --> 00:04:25,840
It's nestled in this quaint little mining community.

42
00:04:25,840 --> 00:04:26,840
Mountains are everywhere.

43
00:04:26,840 --> 00:04:35,840
It snows, believe it or not, during the winter time and the monsoon season is absolutely brilliant.

44
00:04:35,840 --> 00:04:40,240
My parents were from my mom, Patsy Rivera Elmer.

45
00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:41,880
She met my dad in high school.

46
00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:44,000
His name is Clyde Elmer.

47
00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:45,920
And for a stint, he was also a firefighter.

48
00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:49,080
So it's kind of neat how it comes full circle there.

49
00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:52,520
My dad and mom met in high school.

50
00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:57,240
And it's a funny story because they were actually neighbors to one another and started dating

51
00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:03,360
in high school, ended up getting married, having my brother, Tony Elmer, who's a principal

52
00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:07,480
and lives here in Mesa, Arizona, or Gilbert, Arizona, really.

53
00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:11,320
And then shortly after that, not even a full year later had me.

54
00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:13,880
So my brother and I share the same month.

55
00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:17,680
We're about the same age for, I would say, eight days.

56
00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:19,240
And then he turns a year older than me.

57
00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:21,940
So very much like Irish twins.

58
00:05:21,940 --> 00:05:26,000
Very connected to the community, family environment.

59
00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:28,680
My mom is Hispanic.

60
00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:30,520
Her family's from Mexico.

61
00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:34,000
And of course, my dad is Caucasian.

62
00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:41,520
So growing up, we were very much cared for in our Hispanic tradition.

63
00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:43,880
Family was extremely important.

64
00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:48,780
Saying goodbye when we would leave a loved one's house took an additional 20 to 30 minutes

65
00:05:48,780 --> 00:05:51,560
because you're hugging everybody on the way out.

66
00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:55,940
And so that's where I was born and raised.

67
00:05:55,940 --> 00:05:58,880
Talk to me about the family dynamic.

68
00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:04,980
I think one of the things that seems to be the case in 2024 is once you hit 18, you should

69
00:06:04,980 --> 00:06:07,200
go out, you should get your own apartment.

70
00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:10,360
And then you go out and obviously get into student debt and then you can't afford an

71
00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:11,360
apartment.

72
00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:13,880
You're setting our young people up for failure.

73
00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:17,080
And I feel like there's a stigma about still being in the home.

74
00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:22,920
But when I look at some of the Hispanic cultures, the Indian cultures, you see this and it actually

75
00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:27,560
makes a huge amount of sense financially, taking care of children.

76
00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:29,840
So what did you experience in that dynamic?

77
00:06:29,840 --> 00:06:31,280
Oh, yeah.

78
00:06:31,280 --> 00:06:32,700
My mom was a homemaker.

79
00:06:32,700 --> 00:06:35,520
That's what she wanted to do her whole entire life.

80
00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:41,240
She knew that she wanted to be married and have kids and create a very beautiful home

81
00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:42,400
to her.

82
00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:44,540
That was the dream.

83
00:06:44,540 --> 00:06:50,720
And I commend her because that's really one of the hardest jobs in life today is being

84
00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:55,800
a homemaker, taking care of all the chores responsibilities and raise children as well.

85
00:06:55,800 --> 00:07:02,200
So it's a nonstop, no reprieve, 24 hours, seven days a week.

86
00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:08,040
To her, I think that because she wanted that so much for her, that then having a daughter,

87
00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:13,440
that that would be something that her daughter would eventually roll into and do herself.

88
00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:16,760
That just wasn't my direction in life.

89
00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:25,200
I knew at a very young age, just from our challenging dynamics with our family, the

90
00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:30,680
arguments between my mom and dad and kind of what reality was for them.

91
00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:37,160
At one point, it was a very harmonious mother, father, family environment.

92
00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:40,560
And then there was a significant change with my dad.

93
00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:47,880
He was roughly about 21 years old and then had a copper mining accident to where he ended

94
00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:50,040
up losing his arm.

95
00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:58,080
And back then in the 70s, PTSD wasn't a thing, but truly as an adult suffering from PTSD

96
00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:06,720
myself, looking at how he then eventually lived out his 20s into his 30s, there were

97
00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:07,980
a lot of issues there.

98
00:08:07,980 --> 00:08:15,820
So watching my parents kind of dissolve right in front of my eyes and seeing the challenges

99
00:08:15,820 --> 00:08:23,480
that my mother had in trying to support my brother and myself and to figure out what

100
00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:31,200
she's going to do next without that stability with my dad was quite a nerving for a young

101
00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:34,400
child and a young person.

102
00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:38,500
And so I think at that point, I knew I won't put myself in this position.

103
00:08:38,500 --> 00:08:39,500
I need to go to school.

104
00:08:39,500 --> 00:08:40,600
I need to go to college.

105
00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:44,340
I need to do something for myself so that I will be self-sufficient and not have to

106
00:08:44,340 --> 00:08:48,640
rely on any one person to live.

107
00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:56,400
And so my senior year graduating high school, I said, okay, I want to go to school.

108
00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:57,600
To my dad, I want to go to college.

109
00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:02,200
And my dad looked a little confused and he said, well, I wish I would have known that

110
00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:03,200
sooner.

111
00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:06,260
We just don't have the financial resources for you.

112
00:09:06,260 --> 00:09:11,720
And my brother, an amazing, amazing baseball player.

113
00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:17,560
He was kind of the hometown pitcher and received scholarships and broke a lot of the records

114
00:09:17,560 --> 00:09:23,000
here in the state of Arizona for his pitching and won the junior college world series back

115
00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:26,840
in 90, I think it was 92.

116
00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:33,700
So he had everything at his fingertips to be able to go to college and do well.

117
00:09:33,700 --> 00:09:36,600
For me, on the other hand, it was very, very different.

118
00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:38,520
I wasn't top of the class.

119
00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:41,860
So for me, learning was a little bit more challenging as well.

120
00:09:41,860 --> 00:09:43,960
And I just had to figure out my own way.

121
00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:48,600
Moved to Mesa after trying to figure out, okay, well, what does one do when one is trying

122
00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:50,280
to go to school?

123
00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:52,080
Understanding that I'm so far behind, right?

124
00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:56,920
I'm far behind on looking at colleges, where should I apply?

125
00:09:56,920 --> 00:10:00,640
And I just kind of fell into the same routine that most of my other friends did.

126
00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:07,840
Went to Mesa Community College, figured out through a great admissions officer, started

127
00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:12,640
getting loans, going to school full time, working full time to try and pay for my apartment

128
00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:13,820
and other necessities.

129
00:10:13,820 --> 00:10:16,280
It was extremely exhausting.

130
00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:19,280
After the first year, I was just like, I can't do this.

131
00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:20,360
This is a lot of work.

132
00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:24,320
I got to kind of regroup and figure out what's going to be next.

133
00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:27,840
And that's when a good friend of mine came to me and said, hey, the Air Force is paying

134
00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:30,960
for college, we should go.

135
00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:37,440
And no sooner than she said that, I was at a recruiter's office, signed paperwork and

136
00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:39,160
said, okay, I'm doing this.

137
00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:43,920
And then I would say eight weeks later, I was on the first bus out of there going into

138
00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:44,920
the Air Force.

139
00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:48,840
Well, going back to your dad for a second, because I mean, that's a pretty catastrophic

140
00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:50,840
injury.

141
00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:53,960
Did the mining company take care of him?

142
00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:58,160
Was he, you know, yeah, was he, was he enveloped after that?

143
00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:02,620
Or was it, as we hear sometimes in even first responder professions, was he kind of disregarded

144
00:11:02,620 --> 00:11:04,580
after that injury?

145
00:11:04,580 --> 00:11:09,540
You know, it seems from the dialogue that I've had with my dad, at one point in time,

146
00:11:09,540 --> 00:11:13,040
they did provide support to him, right.

147
00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:21,600
And I don't think that in today's means that it would be support like what we see at times,

148
00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:23,920
depending upon what profession one is in.

149
00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:30,920
It, as a child, again, we're very skewed, because we don't know what we don't know.

150
00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:35,920
And they paid for all the medical bills, of course, but then the follow up care after

151
00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:37,520
that was extremely limited.

152
00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:41,480
Again, we live in a very small rural community.

153
00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:48,320
And my dad was a very stoic individual, didn't want help from anyone.

154
00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:52,320
And when it was time to start going through that physical therapy, he's like, no, I'll

155
00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:53,320
be fine.

156
00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:55,400
I'll be able to do this on my own.

157
00:11:55,400 --> 00:12:02,720
The injury was so significant that it completely severed his forearm off of his left arm to

158
00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:09,880
the only thing that was attached was a small piece of skin, one of the main nerves and

159
00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:11,720
one of the arteries.

160
00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:13,280
And that was it.

161
00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:17,960
And when he was brought to the hospital, there was a contentious conversation between two

162
00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:22,280
physicians, one that came up from Phoenix to do time in our small town and then one

163
00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:23,920
that was local.

164
00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:27,600
And the local provider just said, we're just going to cut it completely off.

165
00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:33,120
To whereas the other provider from Phoenix said, no, no, no, we can save this.

166
00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:38,520
And the provider from Phoenix is in fact the one that put together his arm and saved it.

167
00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:46,800
He has still probably about maybe 25% of capacity in that left arm and still has issues.

168
00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:50,240
But is there any support now that he receives from that mining?

169
00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:51,640
No, absolutely not.

170
00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:55,120
That came and went a long, long, long time ago, unfortunately.

171
00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:58,040
And what about the mining industry themselves?

172
00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:03,240
If you look at Wales and other areas of the UK, where there were thriving mining towns

173
00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:07,560
once, not that that's obviously the ideal profession for a human being to have a long

174
00:13:07,560 --> 00:13:09,200
healthy life.

175
00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:13,040
When these industries are closed down, the steel industry, the auto industry here in

176
00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:15,960
America, you see this gaping void.

177
00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:21,560
And then sadly, more recently, you see an opioid epidemic filling Ohio, West Virginia,

178
00:13:21,560 --> 00:13:22,560
etc.

179
00:13:22,560 --> 00:13:27,280
What's the, is it still mining in Miami, Arizona?

180
00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:35,200
Yes, copper mining is the number one job for individuals there.

181
00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:38,400
Yes, it's still very live, active and well.

182
00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:39,400
Brilliant.

183
00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:40,960
All right, well then let's walk through.

184
00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:45,040
So I know we're going to talk obviously about military medicine, but that wasn't the hat

185
00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:46,320
you wore initially.

186
00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:51,120
So walk me through the role that you found in the Air Force.

187
00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:58,200
In order to leave so quickly, the recruiter said, hey, I know you want to go in medical,

188
00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:01,760
but you're going to have to wait six months if you want to go in anything medical.

189
00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:03,760
And I said, okay, well, what do you got?

190
00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:07,800
And she says, we have a job as security police officer.

191
00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:09,640
I said, done, sign me up.

192
00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:11,520
I'll do SF.

193
00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:19,120
And that was probably at the time back in the early 90s, the least job that anybody

194
00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:20,120
wanted.

195
00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:26,080
Because you do the shift work, you are on the firing range all the time, not to mention

196
00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:28,760
all of the other training that has to go along with it.

197
00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:29,760
I didn't know.

198
00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:30,760
I was young.

199
00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:31,760
I was looking for an adventure.

200
00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:38,080
I went to college paid for, and I thought, hey, my dad used to be a volunteer sheriff.

201
00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:42,600
You know, this kind of resonates of who I was or who I am and where I think I'm going

202
00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:47,040
in my life, especially being able to stand up for others that didn't have a voice.

203
00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:51,480
I just felt like that was the space that I needed to be in at that moment of my life,

204
00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:58,840
of being this security forces, security police individual, being able to protect people.

205
00:14:58,840 --> 00:14:59,840
That's where I wanted to be.

206
00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:01,960
And so that's kind of where it took me.

207
00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:07,800
Went to basic training, of course, in Lackland Air Force Base, then went on to the law enforcement

208
00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:13,600
academy on Lackland, and then on to air base ground defense with special forces with the

209
00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:15,360
army in Fort Dix, New Jersey.

210
00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:19,320
And then my first duty station, which would be Peterson Air Force Base.

211
00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:26,560
But that environment of everything that one learns, right?

212
00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:33,460
And what it taught me was if you think you're at the end, you're not.

213
00:15:33,460 --> 00:15:38,360
You could be pushed further and you really then become to know yourself, who you are

214
00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:43,640
as a person, what you have to offer, and really what's important to you.

215
00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:48,720
Being part of something that was so much greater than myself was important for me.

216
00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:53,760
It was a mission that I could get back behind and support that mission and then support

217
00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:55,140
my brothers and sisters in arms.

218
00:15:55,140 --> 00:16:00,120
So it was a great moment in my life to teach me a lot of lessons.

219
00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:06,840
And I was at Peterson Air Force Base for three months, 90 days.

220
00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:13,360
And then I was forward deployed to support the tail end of the Desert Storm War in Operation

221
00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:14,360
Overwatch.

222
00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:17,200
So deployed to the Middle East already.

223
00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:21,480
Primary duty weapon was an M16A2, M9, of course.

224
00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:28,800
But we're trained in all sorts of things, M60, M2OKs, which was the grenade launchers.

225
00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:34,640
And I just felt very capable at that point in time in my life as a cop.

226
00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:43,100
What about the old school prejudice as far as a woman in uniform, especially in a military

227
00:16:43,100 --> 00:16:46,840
police position within a group of alphas.

228
00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:48,600
I'm doing air quotes because I hate that word.

229
00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:51,720
But I would imagine there was an element of disrespect.

230
00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:54,520
I know there's a story that gave you your nickname.

231
00:16:54,520 --> 00:17:00,340
So overall, firstly, how was your physicality in training?

232
00:17:00,340 --> 00:17:03,380
How did that allow you to hold that presence?

233
00:17:03,380 --> 00:17:07,920
And then feel free to talk about any stories that you want to elaborate on.

234
00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:11,000
It was very much alive and well in the early 90s.

235
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:20,600
And going in as SF, security police, you didn't have a lot of females in the cop shop, cop

236
00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:21,600
squadron.

237
00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:22,600
There just wasn't.

238
00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:24,100
There was just a lot of guys.

239
00:17:24,100 --> 00:17:30,840
And I already knew going in that that would kind of be the base of the population with

240
00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:32,960
anywhere that I worked.

241
00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:41,800
And even maneuvering through the different training at through the law enforcement academy,

242
00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:47,180
I had always emerged as a leader, even through those environments.

243
00:17:47,180 --> 00:17:53,600
And I worked on gaining the respect of the men that I led.

244
00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:58,680
And of course, of the women, I was fair, I was impartial, and I was a straight shooter.

245
00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:02,440
And that worked very, very well for me.

246
00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:08,760
When I moved into the Fort Dix training with special forces and the army was leading that

247
00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:16,720
training, it became more evident of the way that women were treated.

248
00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:26,040
And there were a couple of instances where there was a sexual assault happening.

249
00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:33,360
It was very prevalent in that particular training.

250
00:18:33,360 --> 00:18:38,920
These individuals that were the instructors were also the same ones that were trying to

251
00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,820
get with the female cops as students.

252
00:18:41,820 --> 00:18:46,880
And so I walked a very fine line because these same individuals had control whether you graduated

253
00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:48,200
or not.

254
00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:56,840
I stay far away from that particular environment and had challenges that I faced with that

255
00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:58,160
and handled them very, very well.

256
00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:05,840
And the fact that I stood my ground, right, especially with a sergeant major, which it

257
00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:09,400
was challenging.

258
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:15,080
There was one episode where we were cleaning our M16s.

259
00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:20,480
We had just finished a 10-mile rock through the sand.

260
00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:22,680
We called it the sand pit.

261
00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:26,840
And we were doing patrol.

262
00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:28,520
We were low crawling in the sand.

263
00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:34,040
So you can imagine we had sand everywhere in our body, in our mouth, hair, ears, all

264
00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:36,120
over our M16s.

265
00:19:36,120 --> 00:19:40,020
And we were brought back and a lot of the sleep deprivation, right, because they were

266
00:19:40,020 --> 00:19:47,120
trying to train us how we were going to be able to remain mentally sharp, especially

267
00:19:47,120 --> 00:19:48,400
with little to no sleep.

268
00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:54,720
So that was one aspect of the training that I really grasped onto and I enjoyed because,

269
00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:57,440
again, you're challenging yourself.

270
00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:00,940
You're challenging your inner mental capacity as well.

271
00:20:00,940 --> 00:20:08,600
So once they brought us back to the armory, the instructors provided us four hours to

272
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:10,440
clean our M16s.

273
00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:17,240
And I spent probably two and a half hours with dental tools cleaning every piece of

274
00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:22,640
granule sand off of my M16, where you would see other people taking in their M16, trying

275
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:23,640
to turn it in.

276
00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:25,000
And it was a no-go.

277
00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:28,280
So you would have to drop, do push-ups, and then go back.

278
00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:31,960
And then it would take you that much longer to re-clean it to get past, to be able to

279
00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:32,960
turn in your weapon.

280
00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:34,300
Once you turn in your weapon, it was a free day.

281
00:20:34,300 --> 00:20:39,480
You were able to go and take a shower and just kind of sleep and get caught up on just

282
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:41,400
personal-related items.

283
00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:45,600
And so as I was watching this, I just thought, you know, I'm going to spend the amount of

284
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:50,160
time I need to to make sure that this weapon is clean and I can turn it in once and be

285
00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:52,240
done with it.

286
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:56,760
Like I said, two and a half hours into it, I felt that the weapon could not be any cleaner.

287
00:20:56,760 --> 00:21:01,240
Ended up proceeding to the armory to turn in the M16, and they accepted it.

288
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:02,820
The armor accepted my weapon.

289
00:21:02,820 --> 00:21:07,440
And as I was walking away from the armory, there were a couple of steps, and there was

290
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:16,160
a Air Force trainee as well, and he made a couple of comments and basically said, how

291
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:17,680
the fuck are you able to turn in your weapon?

292
00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:20,300
You're nothing but a dumb bitch.

293
00:21:20,300 --> 00:21:24,360
And I remember turning at him and looking at him, and I just said, you know, watch your

294
00:21:24,360 --> 00:21:26,240
fucking mouth.

295
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:29,680
And he just said, you know, what are you going to do about it?

296
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:35,080
And I just kind of put up my hand and just turned my head and walked away.

297
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:40,400
The next thing I know, I feel someone push me to where I catch myself, but I almost fall,

298
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:50,760
and I spin around and it's this guy that wants to engage into a fistfight in front of everyone.

299
00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:57,040
And it just wasn't 10 people, it wasn't 20 people, it was like 60 people in the lawn

300
00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:00,960
in front of the armory, and he wants to fight me.

301
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:05,840
And at that time, I'm like, I don't see that I have an option, right?

302
00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:10,240
Because one, he's testing me in front of all these people, the majority of them are males.

303
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:15,860
I think at that time, there might have been maybe six females in total that were sitting

304
00:22:15,860 --> 00:22:16,860
on that lawn.

305
00:22:16,860 --> 00:22:19,840
And I'm just like, all right, let's go.

306
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:22,960
And popped him really hard in the face, busted his lip.

307
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:26,360
We got into a fistfight.

308
00:22:26,360 --> 00:22:29,960
He was a lot taller than me, a lot stronger than me.

309
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:34,040
The next thing I know, he's on top of me trying to choke me out.

310
00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:38,100
I kick my legs over, get him, and we just start rolling in the ground.

311
00:22:38,100 --> 00:22:44,560
And the next thing I know, and I'll never, ever forget this, I was with a platoon leader

312
00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:48,000
for my squad of 12 members.

313
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:55,000
And my platoon, one of my guys on the platoon who was a huge, huge dude, his last name was

314
00:22:55,000 --> 00:23:03,360
Robinson, he comes up, grabs this guy that's on top of me, pulls him up and just said,

315
00:23:03,360 --> 00:23:05,800
you're not going to fuck with our platoon leader.

316
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:11,520
And the next thing I know, my entire platoon is standing around me and they start going

317
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:12,680
off.

318
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:15,680
You fuck with her, you fuck with all of us.

319
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:18,160
And I was so blown away.

320
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:22,800
And I knew at that point, not only did I earn, which is crazy when you think about it, you

321
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:27,440
earn someone's respect by going into a fist fight.

322
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:31,160
But not only did I earn everybody's respect that was watching, like she's not going to

323
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:35,600
back down, she's going to hold her own, even if she gets her ass kicked, she's going to

324
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:36,600
hold it.

325
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:45,520
But then the level of support and the brotherhood that I developed with these guys, it was like

326
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:47,480
nothing else.

327
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:51,480
But I realized at that point, that's going to be the common theme of me being security

328
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:52,480
forces.

329
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:53,800
That's what it's going to be.

330
00:23:53,800 --> 00:24:01,000
And when I got to my first duty station, the guys are very clear.

331
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:02,280
And I hate even saying this.

332
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:03,720
And I hope it's changed now.

333
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:09,040
Because like I said, this was in early 90s, either you were a bitch and you weren't one

334
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:10,240
to fuck around.

335
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:11,240
And that's what they said.

336
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:12,960
You're either a bitch or you're a whore.

337
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:13,960
One of the two.

338
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:19,200
Either you sleep with everybody or you're a bitch and no one really likes you.

339
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:21,120
And I said, okay, well, I know what I'm going to choose then.

340
00:24:21,120 --> 00:24:25,360
I'll just be the one that no one likes.

341
00:24:25,360 --> 00:24:26,440
And that's kind of how it was.

342
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:32,880
But the great thing about it is the guys that I had been stationed with, we all got along.

343
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:34,080
I was one of the guys.

344
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:39,920
So they knew not to mess with me, but I was one of the guys and well respected.

345
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:44,900
And I really respected the guys as well, because we always had each other's backs.

346
00:24:44,900 --> 00:24:50,840
And then moving on into the Air Force Academy, by this time I was a E5, a staff sergeant.

347
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:52,480
And I was on patrol.

348
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:56,520
I worked late night shift.

349
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:58,720
And I had a younger airman with me.

350
00:24:58,720 --> 00:24:59,720
We were on patrol.

351
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:05,660
And during nights, the staff is limited and we get a call to respond to the non-commissioned

352
00:25:05,660 --> 00:25:06,920
officers club.

353
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:11,920
And of course, all of the enlisted guys and women are there drinking, having a good time.

354
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,840
We show up and there is this particularly rowdy group.

355
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:23,880
And again, another larger staff sergeant there creating a huge scene, being very belligerent.

356
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:25,960
And we show up and I'm telling him he needs to leave.

357
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,760
And he's just not willing to budge.

358
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:30,200
And he wants to try me.

359
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,160
And of course, the bar is full of people.

360
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:39,640
And there's a lot of interaction with him on asking him to leave and then telling him

361
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:41,080
to leave.

362
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:46,640
And escalating, right, escalating up to the point where we were at that time.

363
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:50,200
And he comes up to me and says, what are you going to do about it?

364
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:56,360
And in an instant, I'm thinking to myself, I'm going to tag this guy.

365
00:25:56,360 --> 00:25:58,400
He's going to get throat punched.

366
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:05,800
And to me, there is nothing worse than losing your airway for just a few seconds to think,

367
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,860
what the fuck did I just do to not be able to breathe?

368
00:26:09,860 --> 00:26:12,480
So punched him in the throat.

369
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,720
He grabbed his throat immediately, fell to his knees.

370
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:23,200
And the guys around him that were with him all start having a visceral response.

371
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,380
Of course, they're now making fun of the friend.

372
00:26:26,380 --> 00:26:30,480
And I strongly said, who's next?

373
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:31,640
We have all night, right?

374
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:32,760
Who's next?

375
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:38,080
And at that time, their hands were up, no, no, no, we're good, we're good.

376
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:43,880
And I go to the staff sergeant on his knees and I tap him on the back and I said, hey,

377
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:45,060
buddy, we got to go.

378
00:26:45,060 --> 00:26:46,060
You're out.

379
00:26:46,060 --> 00:26:47,800
And he's like, I got it.

380
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:48,800
I got it.

381
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:50,520
And I said, you want me to give you a ride?

382
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:52,580
And he goes, no, no, no, I'm good.

383
00:26:52,580 --> 00:26:54,620
And him and his buddies left.

384
00:26:54,620 --> 00:26:57,800
And there was this crazy uproar.

385
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:02,080
It was almost like it was a movie.

386
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:08,960
But again, it was not only standing my ground, letting people know, yeah, this is not going

387
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:09,960
to work for me.

388
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:14,760
And then also I look back at that young airman, female airman that was with me that was terrified.

389
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:16,960
I was terrified.

390
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:25,880
But that she knew, okay, this is a good role model as best as she could probably get.

391
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,920
But also to give her the courage to not back down, right?

392
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,240
Because she was a newer airman, new to the base.

393
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:36,160
And I'm sure it's scary for the females coming in, or at least it was back then because you

394
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,280
really didn't have a lot of support, your leadership, there were really no females in

395
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:40,280
leadership.

396
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:44,160
It was all male, predominantly male figures there.

397
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:46,600
I've had a few people on the show.

398
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:52,560
One guest specifically received several sexual assaults and other people have been in military

399
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,680
police positions and all these different perspectives.

400
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,960
And of course, we're still talking about a very, very small group.

401
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:04,040
However, I don't think people understand the level that actually goes on or has gone on

402
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:09,880
historically in the military to certain people in certain mismanaged groups.

403
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:14,400
With you having that lens of experiencing the two columns that you're allowed to be

404
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:19,840
in, and also having the law enforcement in our uniform on, how pervasive were sexual

405
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:24,200
assaults towards men and women back then?

406
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:31,000
The men, I've only seen just a handful of sexual assaults with the males, right?

407
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,800
Females they were pervasive.

408
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:42,200
There was a lot that was going on and a lot that was swept under the rug, which was extremely

409
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,040
unfortunate, right?

410
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:48,640
And that I could not tolerate that kind of behavior.

411
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:55,080
I couldn't tolerate if there was a situation happening in our squadron.

412
00:28:55,080 --> 00:29:02,000
I had to step up, even if it was the non-popular thing to do.

413
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:17,640
And I created a, my character and my place for people to see was if Collins is raising

414
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:23,360
a flag or if Collins is saying something, there must be something here, right?

415
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:27,780
And that would be for anyone that I would stand up for.

416
00:29:27,780 --> 00:29:29,040
Even myself, right?

417
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:35,720
There was a situation to where I experienced sexual assault at one of the bases that I

418
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:37,500
was stationed at.

419
00:29:37,500 --> 00:29:43,720
And I went to my commanding officer, explained to him what had happened.

420
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:50,680
They brought that other person in and what was told and the other person was a very well

421
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:55,400
liked individual, highly respected, highly regarded, and he was a higher ranking person

422
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:56,620
than I was.

423
00:29:56,620 --> 00:30:03,120
So they bring us both in, they set us down and the squadron commander at that time said,

424
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:11,520
Christine, if I hear one more word about this, you will be restricted to base.

425
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:16,880
You will be made to move out of your apartment off base and be placed in a dorm room and

426
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:18,680
I will remove one of your stripes.

427
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:25,160
I had just made Airmen Below the Zone, C Airmen Below the Zone, which is kind of a big deal.

428
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:27,640
And not everybody obviously gets that opportunity.

429
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:29,760
You have to compete for it.

430
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:34,480
And I was really surprised and shocked by that.

431
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:40,560
And I had no recourse, right?

432
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:42,600
I just thought I'm going to have to sit with this.

433
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:49,640
I am literally going to have to eat the shit and this person is going to get off.

434
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:55,400
Long story short, with that, that individual later on ended up not getting off and was

435
00:30:55,400 --> 00:31:01,680
court-martialed and spent time in a military confinement.

436
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:06,680
But the lack of support for me there, I see it.

437
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:10,960
You know, it was there and I've been so far removed from that environment.

438
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:13,800
So I would only hope that it's gotten better.

439
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:17,960
There's more females now that are immersed in that career field.

440
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:18,960
Expectations are different.

441
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:20,920
The training is better.

442
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:26,480
But I would be an absolute idiot, completely daft if I said it didn't exist or it doesn't

443
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:28,200
still exist, right?

444
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:29,640
It does exist.

445
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:35,400
And it's a matter of people being able to go and support one another.

446
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:36,920
Absolutely.

447
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,680
Well you mentioned as well about the tail end of Desert Storm.

448
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:43,440
It's a pretty kind of unique lens because obviously that conflict was relatively short

449
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:50,560
compared to the god awful 20 years that the allied nations went through in this millennia.

450
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:51,560
What did you see?

451
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:52,560
What was the country like?

452
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:56,600
What were some of the kind of takeaways from that short glimpse that you had?

453
00:31:56,600 --> 00:32:01,120
So we were at Prince Hultane Air Base, right?

454
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:09,380
So when we all forward deployed there, part of us went to Kuwait for the Kuwaiti liberation.

455
00:32:09,380 --> 00:32:16,240
Part of us went to Dakhuran because I think it was shortly after I got back that the Qobar

456
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:20,440
towers in Dakhuran had been blown up by a terrorist.

457
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:26,600
And Riyadh was a little bit more of a safe space, but then we were bussed in and out

458
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:32,880
an hour one way to Prince Hultane Air Base where we had the Patriot missiles.

459
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:40,240
So as a law enforcement individual there, my job was to guard AWACS aircraft and the

460
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:42,440
Patriot missile launchers.

461
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:53,600
So that meant that the AWACS aircraft are the planes that do all of the PsiOps, any

462
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:57,600
kind of intel high, high above in the air.

463
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:06,360
But it was an interesting place to be.

464
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:12,360
We were still able to go to town and that's why I say that it was more of a safer environment.

465
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:14,880
Still we had to follow all the rules as a female, right?

466
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:18,680
So if we took one foot off base, we had to dress in a bias.

467
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:30,640
We had the black garb over our hair, the black dress to cover every ounce of skin that we

468
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:32,400
had.

469
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:38,720
So it was still very segregated in that way.

470
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:48,480
The perception of the other guards that were local national guards, part of their military,

471
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:54,400
of the thought that we, the females that were there, were there to service the men, active

472
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:55,400
duty men.

473
00:33:55,400 --> 00:34:00,760
That there was no way that a female, one, could drive a car, two, carry a weapon, and

474
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:03,560
three, be even on the same level that they were.

475
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:12,240
So I think that there was a lot of surprise and shock of others seeing females there serving

476
00:34:12,240 --> 00:34:17,320
in a war campaign alongside the men.

477
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:23,000
Isabel's crazy, I don't know about Iraq specifically, but I know Afghanistan, some of the cities,

478
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:26,280
and again, there's a difference between the cities and some of the rural communities.

479
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:32,240
But when you look back at the 70s, 60s, 50s, it'd be hard to tell which was Paris and which

480
00:34:32,240 --> 00:34:36,240
was one of these cities in the Middle East and the way the women were dressing and obviously

481
00:34:36,240 --> 00:34:42,360
driving and going to school and all the things, and how quickly it devolved to this extremism

482
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:43,360
and oppression.

483
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:48,600
I know some people in that community say, I'm more than happy to wear hijabs and whatever

484
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:50,640
the garments that are told to them.

485
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:55,760
But I think arguably there's as much, if not more, that would say, well, no, we used to

486
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:58,080
be able to do all these things and now we can't.

487
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:03,340
And I think this is one of the things that I respect about the Western militaries that

488
00:35:03,340 --> 00:35:07,040
went over there as part of that was obviously the liberation of women.

489
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:08,800
Absolutely.

490
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:13,220
And I would see that too while I was deployed to Afghanistan for that war.

491
00:35:13,220 --> 00:35:18,720
You see every walk of life from every providence of Afghanistan, right?

492
00:35:18,720 --> 00:35:21,040
And Kabul, same thing.

493
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:22,240
Women were being educated.

494
00:35:22,240 --> 00:35:24,520
They were speakers.

495
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:25,520
They were leaders.

496
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:27,460
They were bankers.

497
00:35:27,460 --> 00:35:29,520
It was phenomenal to see that.

498
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:35,600
And then the farst remote providences of Afghanistan, we would get patients in that were females,

499
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:36,600
right?

500
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:37,600
Girls.

501
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:45,520
And the thing that I loved about being there is when we had a patient that was a child,

502
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:52,480
I'm talking eight years old to 10, 12 years old, unfortunately they were injured by the

503
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:55,080
war as a bystander.

504
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:58,480
But when they would come in, they would have so many questions for us.

505
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:05,600
Myself, my commanding officer, Elizabeth Coddington, my great friend, Olivia Jackson, they just

506
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:11,280
found it fascinating that we were women and what were we doing there?

507
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:15,120
And when they would be with us for a prolonged amount of time, it was taking them under our

508
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:22,840
wing to show them what you can do, what you can be, that this is a possibility.

509
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:28,400
But I go back to these girls are coming from a providence where they don't even have running

510
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:29,400
water, right?

511
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:33,800
They have open fire pits in their house to cook on.

512
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,120
They don't know really how old they are.

513
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:38,880
They go by the moon and the sun.

514
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:40,400
They go by charts.

515
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:45,480
They don't understand the hours and time like we do.

516
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:54,280
And it's such a huge leap of connection of how do you get a person from there to then

517
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:56,880
this is what you can do and go to college.

518
00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:06,160
And it's very reminiscent of there was a major, army major, that was doing outreach with the

519
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:09,120
Afghanistan local college.

520
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:17,560
And she would bring in a surgeon, a nurse, OR individual.

521
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:22,800
So and it's not that these individuals were classically trained in that like we would

522
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:28,960
have here in England or the United States, it was whatever their training was, right?

523
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:30,920
To make them competent.

524
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:35,720
And so what she wanted to do is she wanted to start having us teach these little teams

525
00:37:35,720 --> 00:37:38,280
how we do our work in the trauma ICU.

526
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:40,400
How is an arterial line set up?

527
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:41,400
Where does it go?

528
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:42,400
How does it work?

529
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,680
How does it monitor the internal blood pressure?

530
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:47,720
Rapid intubation, we're using an LMA.

531
00:37:47,720 --> 00:37:48,780
What does that look like?

532
00:37:48,780 --> 00:37:49,780
How do you do it?

533
00:37:49,780 --> 00:37:54,640
Is that easy versus an ET tube, endotracheal tube?

534
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:56,520
What are all these things on the monitor?

535
00:37:56,520 --> 00:38:02,220
You're measuring intercranial pressure, CVPs, all of these things.

536
00:38:02,220 --> 00:38:05,080
She wanted us to train these individuals on that.

537
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:06,160
And I'm like, this is exciting.

538
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:07,160
I am all about this.

539
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:10,920
I would love to share our knowledge base with these guys.

540
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:19,080
The first thing I realized is their time of learning revolved around their tea time, right?

541
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:24,880
So where we were very focused and if we had a moment, and I'm sure you understand this,

542
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:26,280
James, you could go to the bathroom.

543
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:30,280
And that's only if it fit within your schedule.

544
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:36,840
So to have a group of individuals that their tea time revolved around their education was

545
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:38,040
an eye opener for me.

546
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:43,960
The second, I started talking to them about the equipment that we had in Afghanistan.

547
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:47,240
I started talking to them about the monitors, how the monitors work.

548
00:38:47,240 --> 00:38:48,840
And they were very confused.

549
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:51,400
I asked them about, are you accustomed?

550
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:54,120
Because the patient that I had was intubated.

551
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:59,360
He had an open belly due to a gunshot wound to his belly and both his lower legs had been

552
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:00,500
blown off.

553
00:39:00,500 --> 00:39:05,800
So I started addressing the open belly and those types of things that would go along

554
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:09,920
with that mechanism or that injury, right?

555
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:11,800
And they still weren't really getting it.

556
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:19,960
And I was very in tune to their body language, their facial expressions.

557
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:22,280
And so I said, let me ask you this first.

558
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:24,200
Do you have equipment like this?

559
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:25,800
They said no.

560
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:26,800
Okay.

561
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:30,280
Do you have hospital beds?

562
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:32,000
They said no.

563
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:34,260
Do you have antibiotics?

564
00:39:34,260 --> 00:39:38,120
And I'm showing them on the IV pump of things that we hang.

565
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:39,120
No.

566
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:45,640
And they said, okay, this might be a silly question, but I have to ask it.

567
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:51,040
Do you know what is the number one way to help prevent infection?

568
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:52,040
And they said no.

569
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:53,960
I said, okay.

570
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:57,480
Now I have a baseline of where we truly need to start from.

571
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:00,800
And I said, the next question is, do you have running water?

572
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:01,800
And they said no.

573
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:03,600
I said, okay.

574
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:11,760
I said hand washing is one of the most important pieces to prevent infection.

575
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:13,160
And where do you get your water?

576
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:18,280
And so that's the level of conversation that I then decided to have with these individuals

577
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:26,720
is the basic concept of spreading infection, how to disable that and disarm that.

578
00:40:26,720 --> 00:40:30,000
Met with the major about a couple of hours later and I said, do you realize they don't

579
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:32,920
even have the basics within their hospital?

580
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:38,720
And that's where I kind of shifted in my willingness to help support this.

581
00:40:38,720 --> 00:40:46,160
And she says, yeah, we know we're just trying to check off our numbers.

582
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:47,160
And that's that politics.

583
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:52,660
I don't like to do politicking, right?

584
00:40:52,660 --> 00:40:57,080
If you're bringing these people because we have this amazing opportunity to teach them,

585
00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:01,460
we need to teach them at their level so that they can do what they can do with the resources

586
00:41:01,460 --> 00:41:02,460
that they have.

587
00:41:02,460 --> 00:41:07,080
They will never see this type of equipment until they're ready to use that equipment

588
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:09,120
and it's given to them.

589
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:12,880
But we need to teach them at the basic level.

590
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:23,000
So yeah, there was a lot of frustration with growth and then devolving from that growth.

591
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:24,000
That's interesting.

592
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:25,520
I never really thought about it that way.

593
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:30,640
But I mean, even I had a guy, Rasool Rasek, I think I got that right.

594
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:36,320
He's an alias anyway, but he was Moushe Hadeen and then now he's trying to be one of the

595
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:39,120
voices to help unite Afghanistan.

596
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:42,400
But he was underlining as well what a lot of us didn't understand early in the war is

597
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:44,640
that Afghanistan isn't a united country.

598
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:48,240
It's all these tribes, some of whom get along, some of whom don't.

599
00:41:48,240 --> 00:41:51,720
Like you said, some are in a city like Kabul, some are in the mountains.

600
00:41:51,720 --> 00:41:57,520
And we forget that means there's a massive spectrum in understanding technology, all

601
00:41:57,520 --> 00:41:59,000
the things.

602
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:00,160
That's correct.

603
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:01,920
We saw it all the time.

604
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:04,080
And that is a challenge.

605
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:13,120
And trying to pull everybody together in that country, it has its own set of problems.

606
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:14,240
And could it happen?

607
00:42:14,240 --> 00:42:20,160
I mean, after the fall of Afghanistan, that sent me into a very, very dark place in my

608
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:27,960
life because as you were deployed to the front lines, seeing your brothers and sisters being

609
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:38,840
injured, seeing coalition members, guys and females from England, from France, from Romania.

610
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:48,080
You see these lives that are in front of you and you work so tirelessly to do your job,

611
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:52,320
your part among that trauma team to save their life.

612
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:54,240
And they're not just a person.

613
00:42:54,240 --> 00:42:55,840
It's a human being.

614
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:59,040
It's someone that somebody loves.

615
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:03,280
And you just can't do enough to save them.

616
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:05,120
Everything you do is just not enough.

617
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:10,280
And then the emotional grappling with that, not only what could I have done different,

618
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:16,680
but God, he's going home in a box and his loved ones or her loved ones are going to

619
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:18,520
be at the end of that.

620
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:24,900
And the destruction of the loss of this life, what that does for that whole family that

621
00:43:24,900 --> 00:43:34,380
is at home waiting for that person is, I think that's what was so hard for me with the fall

622
00:43:34,380 --> 00:43:42,120
of Afghanistan because I start going through the pictures in my head of all the men and

623
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:43,120
the women that died.

624
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:48,360
And it's like, what was that for?

625
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:49,360
What was it for?

626
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:55,160
And this is something that again, I've heard so many people now, so many people from the

627
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:56,160
military being on the show.

628
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:58,480
And obviously most of them were in Afghanistan.

629
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:00,680
Specifically, some of them were in Iraq.

630
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:06,040
But undoubtedly, they did so much good and this is what they got to look in the mirror

631
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:07,040
and say.

632
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:09,960
And normally, our whole conversation is going to be these two things.

633
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:14,500
But I normally ask the military members a question and I preface it saying that our

634
00:44:14,500 --> 00:44:20,360
media is very polarized and the civilians either kill them all like God sort them out

635
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:24,040
on one channel or they're all baby killers on another channel.

636
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:28,880
And the reality is we got to ask the men and women that were there, simply that.

637
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:34,040
And so I ask, what are some of the things that they witnessed when they got over there

638
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:37,200
that justified hunting certain human beings?

639
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:40,760
And then what were the moments of kindness and compassion that you witnessed?

640
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,360
And obviously, we're going to explore many stories with that.

641
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:46,600
So that's why I didn't ask you that one specifically.

642
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:52,260
But what I've also asked and I parallel this with the pharmaceutical industry.

643
00:44:52,260 --> 00:44:56,920
If you have a profit based health care system like we do in America, where are the checks

644
00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:59,680
and balances to make people healthier?

645
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:04,080
And there was no better example than COVID, not talking about vaccines because that was

646
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:05,840
a slice of the conversation.

647
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:11,120
But what a beautiful moment to address the obesity epidemic and the opioid crisis and

648
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:16,600
the mental health crisis and do the proactive things to get people healthy again.

649
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:19,200
Well, there are certain companies that are going to make a lot of money if we don't do

650
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:20,800
that and what happened?

651
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:21,800
Nothing.

652
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:26,440
And I think this is the same thing is if we are going to ask our men and women, arguably

653
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:33,160
children to put American patch on their shoulder and go, you know, and fight for our freedom,

654
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:37,240
for other people's freedom, there needs to be that checks and balances to make sure that

655
00:45:37,240 --> 00:45:40,940
only happens when it's absolutely necessary.

656
00:45:40,940 --> 00:45:45,260
But when people are making billions, if not trillions of dollars on weapons and uniforms

657
00:45:45,260 --> 00:45:52,120
and MRI, MREs and planes and all the things, again, I think we need to hear these stories,

658
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:57,480
these raw, raw stories, because otherwise it's all pomp and circumstance and, you know,

659
00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:01,080
everyone's saluting the casket when it comes back to an airport.

660
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:04,680
But that doesn't bring that child back to their parents in one piece.

661
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:09,720
And so this is, I think, a really important conversation is making sure that we only send

662
00:46:09,720 --> 00:46:13,480
our military members over there when it's absolutely necessary.

663
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:16,160
We support them 100% when they're out there.

664
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:18,880
And we don't fucking withdraw like we did in Afghanistan.

665
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:20,560
I agree.

666
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:21,640
I absolutely agree.

667
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:26,120
And you know, it's so political based, right?

668
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:34,000
And living and working in DC, only on one sliver of a piece of government and then being

669
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:37,640
able to look behind the curtain to see if Wizard of Oz is real.

670
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:40,760
And you find out the Wizard of Oz isn't real.

671
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:42,760
It's extremely disappointing, right?

672
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:49,280
And then you start figuring certain things out with the politics of who's really running

673
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:53,840
things and making these decisions.

674
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:54,880
And I absolutely agree.

675
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:58,680
If it's absolutely necessary, yes.

676
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:06,140
And when you say that, James, and as I agree with you, even to get to that piece, there

677
00:47:06,140 --> 00:47:13,640
has to be a complete overhaul of what we do and how businesses are rewarded by how they

678
00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:14,880
support, right?

679
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:16,440
Because it is all about the money.

680
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:20,480
It is about who's making the money, who's really in charge, right?

681
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:22,660
Who's backing who.

682
00:47:22,660 --> 00:47:30,660
And I don't think now at any rate that America would even be at that place to say, should

683
00:47:30,660 --> 00:47:33,200
we really weigh into this war or not?

684
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:34,200
Right?

685
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:37,560
Because everyone in the government has an agenda.

686
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:42,460
And if someone tells you Christine's full of shit, no.

687
00:47:42,460 --> 00:47:48,360
Everybody in DC, whether it's on the Capitol, whether it's in other agencies within the

688
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:55,600
government, all of the political appointees have agendas that they're trying to push forward,

689
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:57,160
right?

690
00:47:57,160 --> 00:48:00,360
Afghanistan.

691
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:07,560
There was a movie that, oh my gosh, I wish I remembered the, it was with a congressman.

692
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:08,560
It was about his life.

693
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:10,740
His last name was Wilson.

694
00:48:10,740 --> 00:48:20,360
And he was part of the Afghanistan support back in the 80s when the Russians invaded.

695
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:24,480
That movie resonated with me so much.

696
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:31,480
And I think it was because of the message that it sent with Wilson, Congressman Wilson

697
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:39,280
was trying to get, I don't, I can't remember exactly how much money to support maybe another

698
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:45,720
few years with Afghanistan because they were right at that point of turning a corner of

699
00:48:45,720 --> 00:48:49,760
then becoming independent, right?

700
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:51,800
And he was disapproved.

701
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:56,880
Congress had disapproved his request and he was working all angles to get this approved.

702
00:48:56,880 --> 00:49:05,880
And you just wonder, had a decision, a different decision been made by allowing Wilson to do

703
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:09,840
and finalize the business in Afghanistan?

704
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:15,340
Would we have gone where we went over the last 20 plus years?

705
00:49:15,340 --> 00:49:20,960
And it takes a generation, right, to fix what Afghanistan is.

706
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:27,520
And I would say that the current, the leaders that are there now with the Taliban and pushing

707
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:34,760
back the devolution of women going to school and all of that, we still have 20 years of

708
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:42,760
devastation that these people were caught in the conflict, the cross wires of war, right?

709
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:49,100
And or being told that America is horrible and bad and evil.

710
00:49:49,100 --> 00:49:56,160
It would require us to do a full generation of education and training and teaching, really,

711
00:49:56,160 --> 00:50:03,400
I should say teaching that we are there to help and to make a change, right?

712
00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:09,240
There are some kids that we cared for that loved and appreciated our countries.

713
00:50:09,240 --> 00:50:19,080
And I say ours because it was a united front with England, United States, with France,

714
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:23,720
all of these partners that were helping to fight this war.

715
00:50:23,720 --> 00:50:32,720
I don't think that those kids would ever be naysayers of the United States, whereas other

716
00:50:32,720 --> 00:50:39,640
people that are born a certain way to be contentious against the United States and look and feel

717
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:42,000
we would never be able to win over there.

718
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:48,240
We would have to, it would start at a very young age to change that perception.

719
00:50:48,240 --> 00:50:56,400
But it goes to the current wars right now with Russia and Ukraine.

720
00:50:56,400 --> 00:51:01,960
How do we support them and do we support them, right?

721
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:04,880
I'm just asking that question.

722
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:09,680
We have to be very careful in what we decide to dive into and how long we're going to stay

723
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:10,680
there.

724
00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:15,040
And if you look at any kind of war campaign that we've ever been in, we still have people

725
00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:16,040
there.

726
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:18,280
We still have people left, right?

727
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:19,720
And it's true.

728
00:51:19,720 --> 00:51:27,280
You go back to any place that we've supported a war front and still have people there.

729
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:28,480
I think this is what's sad.

730
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:32,720
I had spoke to Jeff Nichols, who's a Navy SEAL when we were talking about the withdrawal.

731
00:51:32,720 --> 00:51:37,320
I think Jeff came on shortly after it happened and he was saying that this is another thing

732
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:41,520
people don't understand is all those weapons that are over there, they're already paid

733
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:42,520
for.

734
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:43,760
Those weapons companies have got their money.

735
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:48,280
The same ones that we see the air shows and parades with the Taliban for the third year

736
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:52,400
now, parading through all the things that are going to be used to oppress their people

737
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:55,720
and maybe invade neighboring places.

738
00:51:55,720 --> 00:51:57,280
But then this is my personal opinion.

739
00:51:57,280 --> 00:52:06,000
I don't understand why the centrist view is the most censored perspective, but the atrocities

740
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:11,640
that are going on in Gaza, the people that were murdered in October 7th, not a single

741
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:14,560
human is saying anything other than that was horrendous.

742
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:17,240
The fact that people were held hostage is horrendous.

743
00:52:17,240 --> 00:52:22,280
I think that one of the Israelis was just released recently, which is phenomenal.

744
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:27,680
But the children and the women that are being murdered and a lot of the men have nothing

745
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:28,680
to do with that.

746
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:34,360
The same way as a lot of Irish people when I was growing up, when the Catholics and the

747
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:37,560
Protestants were fighting each other and the loyalists and all these little factions and

748
00:52:37,560 --> 00:52:41,800
these poor people and the British people on the mainland were getting blown up, they have

749
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:43,320
nothing to do with that conflict.

750
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:49,840
I don't understand why that is the most hated voice is these people are dying and it's not

751
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:50,840
collateral damage.

752
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:54,360
They're being targeted and we're sending weapons.

753
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:57,720
Everyone's complaining about illegal immigration.

754
00:52:57,720 --> 00:53:03,160
Where's the complaints about sending all this money to Israel to carry on what's going on

755
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:04,160
there?

756
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:07,120
And then you're complaining that your schools aren't staffed properly.

757
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:13,760
That's our money going to a place that's not a victim society that's trying to protect

758
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:14,760
themselves.

759
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:15,760
It's the other way around.

760
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:17,600
I don't think that the people of Israel agree with that.

761
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:25,360
I think it's again extremists trying to execute whatever their plan is.

762
00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:28,920
But 16,000 children, they were all Hamas members.

763
00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:33,800
This is what has disgust me and we are funding that left and right.

764
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:38,440
It's interesting when we talk about the funding of things like this and a lot of people don't

765
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:45,880
realize that the buckets of money to fund certain things are different colors.

766
00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:52,200
When we talk about why are we not doing hospitals and even as a firefighter, there is never

767
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:54,880
enough staffing at hospitals.

768
00:53:54,880 --> 00:54:02,520
Nurses, there's just not staffing and they're doing a lot that put their license on the

769
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:05,480
line that can be taken away.

770
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:10,720
And so we're talking about how do we fix this, the staffing at hospitals, let's say, and

771
00:54:10,720 --> 00:54:17,160
yet we're still sending millions of dollars over on this side.

772
00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:22,120
And it all comes down to what color of money is it?

773
00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:24,120
And you can't mix the money.

774
00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:30,520
This bucket of money for this endeavor here is purple or orange.

775
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:36,160
And the money to support our schools is in a green bucket.

776
00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:41,640
But there's billions of dollars in the orange bucket, but there's only $10 in the green

777
00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:43,200
bucket.

778
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:50,600
And because there are different lines of government services, there's this area here where there's

779
00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:55,520
unlimited money to support the things that you were talking about.

780
00:54:55,520 --> 00:55:00,200
To where there's hardly any money, the right color of money to support these other things

781
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:06,560
that are here near Dera that need to be handled and taken care of here at the home front.

782
00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:07,560
But you're right.

783
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:15,040
It just comes down to why is it that we're not we but the leadership that's in place

784
00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:17,720
allowed to do the things that they're doing.

785
00:55:17,720 --> 00:55:18,720
Absolutely.

786
00:55:18,720 --> 00:55:23,640
I had Tulsi Gabbard on a few months ago and we were illustrating all the money that's

787
00:55:23,640 --> 00:55:24,640
gone to Ukraine.

788
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:28,260
And again, what happened in Ukraine was horrendous again.

789
00:55:28,260 --> 00:55:31,260
But I don't think that most Russians wanted to go into Ukraine.

790
00:55:31,260 --> 00:55:33,840
So again, we're talking about extremism.

791
00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:39,240
But then you look at the poor people of Hawaii, a check for 750 bucks or whatever it was.

792
00:55:39,240 --> 00:55:45,720
There's your equation of the value of the American people versus clearly the money that's

793
00:55:45,720 --> 00:55:49,160
being made if we keep perpetuating these wars.

794
00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:50,160
Yeah.

795
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:52,520
I always tell people follow the money.

796
00:55:52,520 --> 00:55:54,440
That's will tell you the real answer.

797
00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:58,800
If there's a question about why something's being funded and this other thing's not, you

798
00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:03,240
follow the money trail and that will show you how it's all politically connected.

799
00:56:03,240 --> 00:56:10,120
And sometimes, you know, the folks that are doing the stuff in questioning, they do very

800
00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:14,880
good at setting up shell companies and things like that to kind of hide where that source

801
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:17,280
of funding is coming from.

802
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:21,000
But I always like to follow the money to see where it truly leads to.

803
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:22,920
And sometimes we're very surprised.

804
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:25,160
Yeah, I think these are just important conversations.

805
00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:29,480
I mean, the first responders, our view on homelessness and the addiction crisis and

806
00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:34,840
obesity crisis is raw and visceral because that's our battlefield.

807
00:56:34,840 --> 00:56:37,240
That's behind the curtain that we see.

808
00:56:37,240 --> 00:56:42,200
And for you, especially in the medical side, you see the collateral damage, the immense

809
00:56:42,200 --> 00:56:43,280
collateral damage.

810
00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:47,520
So you have a right to be able to talk about the industrial military complex and some of

811
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:52,120
these perspectives because you're the ones out there knee deep in death and destruction.

812
00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:54,520
So these voices need to be heard.

813
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:56,560
Yeah, absolutely.

814
00:56:56,560 --> 00:56:58,080
That's a great way of saying that.

815
00:56:58,080 --> 00:57:02,440
Well, I want to get back to the medical side and we'll talk about healing and obviously,

816
00:57:02,440 --> 00:57:06,120
you know, the inability to save, which is just such a crushing weight, I think, for

817
00:57:06,120 --> 00:57:07,380
a lot of us.

818
00:57:07,380 --> 00:57:09,960
So you're in the military police role.

819
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:17,340
You have gone to Iraq Desert Storm, walk me through the opportunity to go on to the nursing

820
00:57:17,340 --> 00:57:22,720
side and let's talk about the actual training that you got in preparation for obviously

821
00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:27,280
the you know, your pretty jarring introduction to it in Afghanistan.

822
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:28,280
Yeah.

823
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:36,280
So finished up, did 10 years as security police and then decided to transition into the reserves.

824
00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:41,360
And the reason why I did that is because I was going then to a full time nursing program.

825
00:57:41,360 --> 00:57:46,880
And and the way the nursing program works is you start with your class and you finish.

826
00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:50,080
It's not that you could take classes here and there.

827
00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:53,280
It's a full time commitment that you make.

828
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:59,120
So I ended up going into the reserves, went to nursing school, I was able to get accepted

829
00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:05,500
into a accelerated program because I had two other degrees.

830
00:58:05,500 --> 00:58:11,080
And so it was really kind of for prior degree holders program was was 19 months.

831
00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:17,840
From there, I ended up getting accepted into the Mayo Clinic's critical care fellowship.

832
00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:22,920
And that's where I ended up getting my training at Mayo Clinic as a ICU.

833
00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:28,560
And then at that point is when the discussion came up of, you know, I already served 10

834
00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:29,560
years.

835
00:58:29,560 --> 00:58:33,480
I just need to do 10 more and then I can call it done and I can retire.

836
00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:38,760
And so that was kind of the impetus behind going back into the Air Force.

837
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:45,520
So ended up going back in and stationed at Scott Air Force Base, started there and then

838
00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:51,600
moved on to Nellis Air Force Base in Las Vegas, Nevada.

839
00:58:51,600 --> 00:58:54,760
That I was there for maybe the first year.

840
00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:59,040
And then my number came up to deploy.

841
00:58:59,040 --> 00:59:03,600
And I was super excited, right?

842
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:06,840
I knew things were going to be different.

843
00:59:06,840 --> 00:59:15,600
The training that we got, you know, we didn't get any special training as far as going to

844
00:59:15,600 --> 00:59:17,760
a pretend war or anything like that.

845
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:25,240
We got your basic training to be a soldier first or an airman first, meaning how to do

846
00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:29,500
gate guard duty, installation security duty.

847
00:59:29,500 --> 00:59:34,000
And the other schooling or education that we got, of course, is renewal of all of our

848
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:42,120
certifications, ACLS, BLS, PALS, and TNCC, of course, the trauma nurse care course.

849
00:59:42,120 --> 00:59:49,800
And then one of the training that we received was a neonatal training, which was phenomenal

850
00:59:49,800 --> 00:59:55,520
because during the time I was receiving that training, it was like a three, four day course.

851
00:59:55,520 --> 01:00:00,200
I thought to myself, why the hell am I taking this neonatal training?

852
01:00:00,200 --> 01:00:02,960
I'm not going to be doing neonate.

853
01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:04,200
And I'm not a neonatal nurse.

854
01:00:04,200 --> 01:00:07,360
I am an adult critical care trauma nurse.

855
01:00:07,360 --> 01:00:13,200
But what I would find out later is that neonate training came in extremely handy, as well

856
01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:20,240
as the PALS and everything related to a NICU and PICU.

857
01:00:20,240 --> 01:00:27,120
So ended up leaving the, we were supposed to leave December of 2008 and it was being

858
01:00:27,120 --> 01:00:29,160
pushed back, pushed back, pushed back.

859
01:00:29,160 --> 01:00:34,560
And then we ended up leaving my team, the team and I left at the very beginning of January

860
01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:45,120
of 2009 and went multiple challenges, of course, with logistics and travel plans and filled

861
01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:46,220
aircraft.

862
01:00:46,220 --> 01:00:54,640
So it took us a few days to get there and ended up showing up middle of the night, dark.

863
01:00:54,640 --> 01:00:56,440
I remember getting off the flight.

864
01:00:56,440 --> 01:01:02,760
The plane, it was a C-130 that we flew in on and everybody was in the back of it.

865
01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:06,880
And it was just complete chaos, right?

866
01:01:06,880 --> 01:01:09,760
Absolute chaos.

867
01:01:09,760 --> 01:01:13,360
No one really knew where to go.

868
01:01:13,360 --> 01:01:14,560
The smell was different.

869
01:01:14,560 --> 01:01:16,760
The air was different.

870
01:01:16,760 --> 01:01:18,640
Everything was different about that place.

871
01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:22,400
And as I start coming into focus with my eyes of looking, okay, we're on the flight line,

872
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:30,400
but we're all being moved and relegated over here, it looked like just this small shanty

873
01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:33,600
town, right?

874
01:01:33,600 --> 01:01:35,960
The Army would call them dog candles.

875
01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:38,520
And it's basically what it is.

876
01:01:38,520 --> 01:01:45,520
The storage containers, the big shipping containers, the Army would put them on top of each other,

877
01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:48,480
secure them and they would turn them into dorm rooms.

878
01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:53,020
And so, and they would have makeshift lights to light up the area.

879
01:01:53,020 --> 01:01:58,920
And it seemed like a very interesting and quaint, but beautiful place, believe it or

880
01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:01,320
not, at least that's what I thought.

881
01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:05,720
And we get shuffled, we grab our things and we get shuffled to the hospital and then it's

882
01:02:05,720 --> 01:02:08,680
nonstop absolute chaos and nonstop.

883
01:02:08,680 --> 01:02:15,000
We're trying to get registered in processing.

884
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:16,720
We get sent to our rooms.

885
01:02:16,720 --> 01:02:19,640
We sleep for a few hours and then we show back up.

886
01:02:19,640 --> 01:02:21,560
We're trying to figure out who's going to go to what shift.

887
01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:25,000
I was supposed to go to night shift, sent me back home to sleep to get ready to go for

888
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:26,000
the following day.

889
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:29,880
And then I get called back in, know you're going to work days.

890
01:02:29,880 --> 01:02:32,960
It was just like this controlled chaos.

891
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:40,560
And then there I was on my first shift when we received a Romanian soldier that just was

892
01:02:40,560 --> 01:02:44,440
absolutely blown up all over the place.

893
01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:53,240
And everything in me thought this is exactly what I was born to do.

894
01:02:53,240 --> 01:02:59,800
And the level of care and attention that this person needed, I gave everything that I had

895
01:02:59,800 --> 01:03:00,800
to him.

896
01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:07,560
And then at that moment, I just knew that my whole life would be different coming home

897
01:03:07,560 --> 01:03:12,840
and that I needed to figure out a way to express my thoughts and my feelings during my time

898
01:03:12,840 --> 01:03:21,000
here really for my husband, Clinton, that wasn't going to get the same person home that

899
01:03:21,000 --> 01:03:24,200
left.

900
01:03:24,200 --> 01:03:28,340
And then that's when I started journaling and writing down every thought, every feeling

901
01:03:28,340 --> 01:03:31,640
of every patient that I encountered there.

902
01:03:31,640 --> 01:03:39,740
And what I noticed is over the span of time, every person that I cared for, I gave away

903
01:03:39,740 --> 01:03:42,400
a little piece of myself.

904
01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:51,680
And I think if someone were to tell me today, had you not given away yourself to these people,

905
01:03:51,680 --> 01:03:53,680
if you had to do it over, would you do it?

906
01:03:53,680 --> 01:04:02,200
I absolutely would have, even though the pain and the sacrifice and coming finally full

907
01:04:02,200 --> 01:04:05,680
circle after 15 years, absolutely.

908
01:04:05,680 --> 01:04:19,200
It's made me value sacrifices that people make and understanding that it's a process.

909
01:04:19,200 --> 01:04:24,760
It is you want something so badly, what are you going to do?

910
01:04:24,760 --> 01:04:28,080
You have to give something to get something.

911
01:04:28,080 --> 01:04:33,520
And I always tell people it's not without sacrifice, right?

912
01:04:33,520 --> 01:04:35,920
Because in life, that's the decisions we have to make.

913
01:04:35,920 --> 01:04:37,800
There are sacrifices we have to make.

914
01:04:37,800 --> 01:04:38,800
Nothing comes free.

915
01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:41,520
But I always tell my kids not without sacrifice.

916
01:04:41,520 --> 01:04:45,280
They'll ask me if they could do something not without sacrifice.

917
01:04:45,280 --> 01:04:46,280
What are you willing to give up?

918
01:04:46,280 --> 01:04:52,840
Are you going to have to clean the bathroom to get another couple of bucks?

919
01:04:52,840 --> 01:04:58,000
So are you willing to sacrifice your time and doing that to get the money that you want?

920
01:04:58,000 --> 01:05:03,600
When you first arrived in the medical unit, at this point, obviously you've been doing

921
01:05:03,600 --> 01:05:06,560
the security side, then you go to civilian nursing school.

922
01:05:06,560 --> 01:05:13,520
I'm assuming that in the trauma training and the Mayo Clinic, you must have had some pretty

923
01:05:13,520 --> 01:05:16,360
extensive amount of patients come through those doors.

924
01:05:16,360 --> 01:05:20,760
But now obviously you're in a war zone where it's trauma after trauma after trauma of allied

925
01:05:20,760 --> 01:05:25,440
nations and indigenous people and enemy combatants.

926
01:05:25,440 --> 01:05:30,600
With that fresh set of eyes, what was your perspective of the compassion fatigue of maybe

927
01:05:30,600 --> 01:05:33,920
some of the people that have been there too long?

928
01:05:33,920 --> 01:05:35,960
Yeah, you could see it.

929
01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:40,300
The way that they care for their patients was totally different than the way the fresh

930
01:05:40,300 --> 01:05:43,540
set of eyes would take care of patients.

931
01:05:43,540 --> 01:05:48,240
And I even started going down that trail as well with the compassion fatigue.

932
01:05:48,240 --> 01:05:56,320
I think towards the end of the six months, I was so depleted, but I would always try

933
01:05:56,320 --> 01:06:03,360
and find that light at the end of the day to then get me refocused because you had to

934
01:06:03,360 --> 01:06:05,000
be.

935
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:13,280
Being there not caring or being tired of seeing the same shit every single day, right?

936
01:06:13,280 --> 01:06:16,120
It's not okay because that's still a human being.

937
01:06:16,120 --> 01:06:19,900
This is their first time getting blown up or is their second or third time getting blown

938
01:06:19,900 --> 01:06:25,960
up depending upon how many times they've been outside the wire and going out, right?

939
01:06:25,960 --> 01:06:30,460
But you still are required, I think, to give everything you have to that human being.

940
01:06:30,460 --> 01:06:34,940
This is the worst place in that person's life that they're going to be.

941
01:06:34,940 --> 01:06:41,540
And showing that humanity and that compassion is what they're going to remember most.

942
01:06:41,540 --> 01:06:47,500
And I remember telling my team when we all got there, everybody was just really kind

943
01:06:47,500 --> 01:06:53,760
of taken aback by what we were seeing, what we were getting, what was coming in.

944
01:06:53,760 --> 01:06:55,880
The kids, no one prepped us for that.

945
01:06:55,880 --> 01:07:00,280
No one said you're going to get a bunch of kids coming in and your adult trauma ICU is

946
01:07:00,280 --> 01:07:03,240
going to turn into a PICU and a NICU.

947
01:07:03,240 --> 01:07:10,040
I remember before I left, I talked to one of our medical technicians and I asked her,

948
01:07:10,040 --> 01:07:14,520
I said, what is the one thing that you wished someone would have told you or prepared you

949
01:07:14,520 --> 01:07:19,960
for that you would give someone else advice now?

950
01:07:19,960 --> 01:07:26,600
And she said, and I just had a hard time believing her, she said, once you get there, you will

951
01:07:26,600 --> 01:07:31,120
wish that the kids that come in, you hope they don't make it.

952
01:07:31,120 --> 01:07:34,560
I was just like, no, there's no way.

953
01:07:34,560 --> 01:07:36,320
I can't even understand that.

954
01:07:36,320 --> 01:07:43,400
I am thinking from the lens of the United States running water, health care at my fingertips,

955
01:07:43,400 --> 01:07:46,440
health care at my children's fingertips.

956
01:07:46,440 --> 01:07:51,320
The benefit package that I have with the military transcends down to my kids.

957
01:07:51,320 --> 01:07:55,800
So whatever they need, if they're sick, if they're hurt, they get taken care of.

958
01:07:55,800 --> 01:07:59,640
If there's follow-up action that has to happen, they have follow-up care, they have specialists,

959
01:07:59,640 --> 01:08:03,920
they have home health, they have physical therapy, they have everything.

960
01:08:03,920 --> 01:08:11,360
So her, Amelia telling me that, and not being able to have something to compare it to where

961
01:08:11,360 --> 01:08:15,760
she had been and what she saw, that just didn't make sense to me.

962
01:08:15,760 --> 01:08:24,000
I had a hard time picking that apart and being able to digest that mentally.

963
01:08:24,000 --> 01:08:29,840
But then when I got there, oh my gosh, that was probably the best advice that she could

964
01:08:29,840 --> 01:08:35,280
have given me because I was then, it was already in my head and I had thought about it so much

965
01:08:35,280 --> 01:08:37,520
that it's like, okay, I got it.

966
01:08:37,520 --> 01:08:39,240
This is what she's talking about.

967
01:08:39,240 --> 01:08:45,880
These kids that end up getting blown up, run over because the rules of engagement are if

968
01:08:45,880 --> 01:08:50,560
there are kids in the way of your convoy, you can't stop.

969
01:08:50,560 --> 01:08:53,120
You have to run over them.

970
01:08:53,120 --> 01:09:01,880
And you think about mentally how that's going to fuck up that young 18-year-old driver.

971
01:09:01,880 --> 01:09:06,820
They have to run this kid over.

972
01:09:06,820 --> 01:09:14,680
And then getting those kids in and seeing their arm off because the convoy had run them

973
01:09:14,680 --> 01:09:21,520
over or their legs run over and now we have to amputate both their legs.

974
01:09:21,520 --> 01:09:26,480
Meaning that these are poor kids from a very poor providence.

975
01:09:26,480 --> 01:09:30,000
There's no running water in their house.

976
01:09:30,000 --> 01:09:31,560
They don't have physical therapy.

977
01:09:31,560 --> 01:09:33,160
They don't have specialists.

978
01:09:33,160 --> 01:09:38,000
So we're going to take these kids in, get them well.

979
01:09:38,000 --> 01:09:43,480
And what we saw there is, and we would say, well, they're going to be discharged to the

980
01:09:43,480 --> 01:09:44,640
ditch.

981
01:09:44,640 --> 01:09:48,640
And that meant that depending upon the level of effort that it was going to take to take

982
01:09:48,640 --> 01:09:56,560
care of that child and what kind of medication we would give them, the family members would

983
01:09:56,560 --> 01:10:02,680
then leave their kid on the side of the road and walk away.

984
01:10:02,680 --> 01:10:06,240
They will take all of that medication and go sell it on the black market or they'll

985
01:10:06,240 --> 01:10:10,040
get more money for that because they can't do anything for their kid.

986
01:10:10,040 --> 01:10:12,540
They can't go to physical therapy.

987
01:10:12,540 --> 01:10:14,600
There is no follow up.

988
01:10:14,600 --> 01:10:22,040
The one amazing thing that Bagram did is that they allowed follow up visits for that child

989
01:10:22,040 --> 01:10:27,440
through the course of the time that we were there with that hospital.

990
01:10:27,440 --> 01:10:31,760
So revisions, if scar revisions needed to be made, they would come back and we would

991
01:10:31,760 --> 01:10:33,640
provide that for them.

992
01:10:33,640 --> 01:10:42,760
But if they can't get to Bagram and they have to go back to their village, they don't have

993
01:10:42,760 --> 01:10:48,080
the capacity to be able to get that follow on care.

994
01:10:48,080 --> 01:10:49,680
And it was really sad.

995
01:10:49,680 --> 01:10:53,720
And you knew some of these families what was going to happen to these kids.

996
01:10:53,720 --> 01:10:56,280
And that was hard.

997
01:10:56,280 --> 01:10:59,560
That was hard to accept.

998
01:10:59,560 --> 01:11:02,280
It was unfathomable.

999
01:11:02,280 --> 01:11:08,280
Well, I mean, these are the stories that again, we need to hear to add weight against going

1000
01:11:08,280 --> 01:11:09,280
into conflicts.

1001
01:11:09,280 --> 01:11:15,000
Now, are people being preyed upon by their own Taliban, Al Qaeda, etc.

1002
01:11:15,000 --> 01:11:16,000
Yes.

1003
01:11:16,000 --> 01:11:19,280
And of course, there's that balance between what do you do?

1004
01:11:19,280 --> 01:11:23,880
But for example, a lot of the special forces soldiers have had on here, a lot of them seem

1005
01:11:23,880 --> 01:11:24,880
to have the same thing.

1006
01:11:24,880 --> 01:11:29,780
When the towers first fell, it was get in there, hit all the key leaders, shut down

1007
01:11:29,780 --> 01:11:32,600
the training camps and then get out again.

1008
01:11:32,600 --> 01:11:36,640
And obviously what we saw, and I think it seems to be a pretty accepted kind of philosophy

1009
01:11:36,640 --> 01:11:39,800
now is the longer you stay, the more enemies you make.

1010
01:11:39,800 --> 01:11:45,760
And how many of our soldiers or military members were simply it was IEDs over and over and

1011
01:11:45,760 --> 01:11:47,520
over and over again.

1012
01:11:47,520 --> 01:11:54,960
But the collateral damage, 16,000 in Gaza, one of those 16,000 children is exactly what

1013
01:11:54,960 --> 01:11:56,420
you're talking about.

1014
01:11:56,420 --> 01:12:02,240
One family devastated and in that particular country, like you said, discarded because

1015
01:12:02,240 --> 01:12:03,240
there's nothing they can do.

1016
01:12:03,240 --> 01:12:06,840
And it's kind of ironic that we were talking about your dad's injury earlier.

1017
01:12:06,840 --> 01:12:08,540
At least that didn't end his life.

1018
01:12:08,540 --> 01:12:13,160
If he was a little boy in Afghanistan, he wouldn't have survived that injury.

1019
01:12:13,160 --> 01:12:14,160
Right.

1020
01:12:14,160 --> 01:12:15,160
Right.

1021
01:12:15,160 --> 01:12:17,940
And you said it perfectly, James.

1022
01:12:17,940 --> 01:12:20,040
What I just spoke about is one child.

1023
01:12:20,040 --> 01:12:24,700
You talk about Gaza, you talk about one child, 16,000.

1024
01:12:24,700 --> 01:12:34,400
There are thousands of more stories like mine, like the child in Gaza that permeate the field

1025
01:12:34,400 --> 01:12:36,400
of war.

1026
01:12:36,400 --> 01:12:37,400
Right.

1027
01:12:37,400 --> 01:12:42,720
And these are unintended consequences of going to war.

1028
01:12:42,720 --> 01:12:55,200
And the other piece to that, which I was also very naive to, is that the military, the United

1029
01:12:55,200 --> 01:13:02,600
States government, would pay the Afghanis money for their injuries.

1030
01:13:02,600 --> 01:13:03,600
Right.

1031
01:13:03,600 --> 01:13:09,600
So if their child was injured, there was a percentage of whatever the injury was, and

1032
01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:12,400
that's based upon how much money they would get.

1033
01:13:12,400 --> 01:13:19,040
So then you had some people that wanted to get injured so that they have this windfall

1034
01:13:19,040 --> 01:13:21,980
of Afghani dollars.

1035
01:13:21,980 --> 01:13:27,760
It was just a very bizarre and crazy place to be.

1036
01:13:27,760 --> 01:13:34,200
Nothing made sense, but then everything made sense, if that's weird.

1037
01:13:34,200 --> 01:13:36,960
But it was true.

1038
01:13:36,960 --> 01:13:41,040
Just the different way of life there.

1039
01:13:41,040 --> 01:13:45,600
What they valued versus what we as Westerners valued.

1040
01:13:45,600 --> 01:13:47,560
Well, I've heard that too.

1041
01:13:47,560 --> 01:13:51,680
And obviously, all kinds of things, throwing gays off the roof.

1042
01:13:51,680 --> 01:13:58,320
I think gays is the right plural, but homosexual men and women off the roof, special needs,

1043
01:13:58,320 --> 01:13:59,920
family members being chained in the backyard.

1044
01:13:59,920 --> 01:14:02,880
And I've heard a lot of those stories too.

1045
01:14:02,880 --> 01:14:06,880
When I talked about the kindness and then the horrors, one of your stories, one of your

1046
01:14:06,880 --> 01:14:08,320
patients really resonated.

1047
01:14:08,320 --> 01:14:10,000
It's both those combined.

1048
01:14:10,000 --> 01:14:20,240
So talk to me about the 14-year-old abortion.

1049
01:14:20,240 --> 01:14:22,640
Her father had befriended another guy.

1050
01:14:22,640 --> 01:14:32,120
The father was a farmer up northern area of Afghanistan and in the mountains.

1051
01:14:32,120 --> 01:14:38,920
And the friend that the father had befriended had raped this young 14-year-old girl.

1052
01:14:38,920 --> 01:14:46,520
When six months had passed, the mom realized that she was pregnant and the father went

1053
01:14:46,520 --> 01:14:50,400
out of the village for some reason.

1054
01:14:50,400 --> 01:14:57,360
And the mother and the girl's brother took her behind a cowshed and proceeded to cut

1055
01:14:57,360 --> 01:15:01,080
the baby out from her abdomen.

1056
01:15:01,080 --> 01:15:08,400
Again, when we think about Afghanistan in this place, there is no pain medication.

1057
01:15:08,400 --> 01:15:09,600
There's no IV.

1058
01:15:09,600 --> 01:15:13,600
There is no clean, sterile environment.

1059
01:15:13,600 --> 01:15:24,160
It is a dirty old knife out on their property.

1060
01:15:24,160 --> 01:15:26,000
It's filthy.

1061
01:15:26,000 --> 01:15:29,840
And they proceed to slice her abdomen open.

1062
01:15:29,840 --> 01:15:38,320
The brother is able to take the baby from her uterus and bury the baby behind the cowshed.

1063
01:15:38,320 --> 01:15:50,400
And then proceeds on to sew her gaping wound shut with yarn.

1064
01:15:50,400 --> 01:15:51,500
They wrap her up.

1065
01:15:51,500 --> 01:15:56,440
They put her by the fire in their house, in their hut.

1066
01:15:56,440 --> 01:16:01,120
And the dad comes home realizing that she's not doing too well.

1067
01:16:01,120 --> 01:16:03,280
She's not feeling well.

1068
01:16:03,280 --> 01:16:10,560
He realizes that she's not communicating, level of conscious, obviously has completely

1069
01:16:10,560 --> 01:16:11,560
changed.

1070
01:16:11,560 --> 01:16:13,840
And he realizes that she's hurt.

1071
01:16:13,840 --> 01:16:16,120
She is not well at all.

1072
01:16:16,120 --> 01:16:25,720
And proceeds to take her to the nearest medical outpost that our partner staff.

1073
01:16:25,720 --> 01:16:28,640
And two days it took them to get there.

1074
01:16:28,640 --> 01:16:30,640
I'm surprised that she didn't die.

1075
01:16:30,640 --> 01:16:35,920
And initially when she got to the outpost, they thought she was already gone.

1076
01:16:35,920 --> 01:16:38,120
She was completely septic.

1077
01:16:38,120 --> 01:16:41,000
And they flew her in to Bagram.

1078
01:16:41,000 --> 01:16:44,760
And that's where she was intubated.

1079
01:16:44,760 --> 01:16:46,840
We took her to the OR very quickly.

1080
01:16:46,840 --> 01:16:48,320
Started doing abdominal washouts.

1081
01:16:48,320 --> 01:16:52,520
Of course, they had to take out her complete uterus.

1082
01:16:52,520 --> 01:16:55,280
And so now she's non-childbearing.

1083
01:16:55,280 --> 01:16:58,400
And she was intubated for days.

1084
01:16:58,400 --> 01:17:03,940
And it was myself and a few other handful of nurses that really leaned in to be her

1085
01:17:03,940 --> 01:17:07,440
primary caregiver.

1086
01:17:07,440 --> 01:17:11,980
It was atrocious.

1087
01:17:11,980 --> 01:17:21,440
She was such a fragile, sweet, beautiful little girl.

1088
01:17:21,440 --> 01:17:26,680
And then when she was extubated, you could see into her beautiful brown eyes.

1089
01:17:26,680 --> 01:17:31,400
And that there was this innocence that she was robbed of.

1090
01:17:31,400 --> 01:17:33,480
And all I wanted to do is bring her home.

1091
01:17:33,480 --> 01:17:36,320
Bring her to the United States.

1092
01:17:36,320 --> 01:17:38,580
And just show her a different life.

1093
01:17:38,580 --> 01:17:41,000
Give her a different opportunity.

1094
01:17:41,000 --> 01:17:42,800
And over time she ended up getting better.

1095
01:17:42,800 --> 01:17:53,200
We were doing hourly dressing changes, wet to dry, 24-hour antibiotic care for her, IV.

1096
01:17:53,200 --> 01:17:56,000
Everybody wanted her to live.

1097
01:17:56,000 --> 01:17:57,000
And she did.

1098
01:17:57,000 --> 01:17:58,000
And she recovered.

1099
01:17:58,000 --> 01:18:05,880
And she just really blossomed into this beautiful soul that we all had this amazing opportunity

1100
01:18:05,880 --> 01:18:07,680
to spend with her.

1101
01:18:07,680 --> 01:18:10,640
And to get to know her on a personal level.

1102
01:18:10,640 --> 01:18:12,920
And tell her stories about my daughter.

1103
01:18:12,920 --> 01:18:13,920
Show her pictures.

1104
01:18:13,920 --> 01:18:22,160
And just become an integral, important piece in her life of this particular journey that

1105
01:18:22,160 --> 01:18:23,840
she was on.

1106
01:18:23,840 --> 01:18:26,480
She was big news in Afghanistan, right?

1107
01:18:26,480 --> 01:18:32,440
Her family, that was a big thing that a lot of the community members wanted her dead as

1108
01:18:32,440 --> 01:18:33,440
an honor killing.

1109
01:18:33,440 --> 01:18:34,440
She got pregnant.

1110
01:18:34,440 --> 01:18:38,840
And the only way that you can make this right is you need to kill your daughter.

1111
01:18:38,840 --> 01:18:44,240
And the other half of the community was, no, we need to protect her.

1112
01:18:44,240 --> 01:18:48,580
And that's where that trust comes in with your interpreters.

1113
01:18:48,580 --> 01:18:52,960
What we found is some of the interpreters that we had were feeling, pooling information

1114
01:18:52,960 --> 01:18:59,720
and selling it to either one of the Taliban or to other people to make money.

1115
01:18:59,720 --> 01:19:07,040
And some of the interpreters were very loyal supporters and would help us at all costs.

1116
01:19:07,040 --> 01:19:14,000
And for this one, one of the interpreters let a lady in who was trying to take her,

1117
01:19:14,000 --> 01:19:16,200
the child's picture.

1118
01:19:16,200 --> 01:19:18,320
And I was just like, no, you got to leave.

1119
01:19:18,320 --> 01:19:23,400
I don't know who you are, but you're not supposed to be here and escorted her out very, very

1120
01:19:23,400 --> 01:19:25,140
quickly.

1121
01:19:25,140 --> 01:19:30,440
And at that point, there was a real strong feeling that this girl's life could be in

1122
01:19:30,440 --> 01:19:31,840
jeopardy.

1123
01:19:31,840 --> 01:19:35,240
And so then we restricted the nursing care for her.

1124
01:19:35,240 --> 01:19:40,040
And then we were armed every time we took care of her because you just, you never knew.

1125
01:19:40,040 --> 01:19:46,920
It was such a volatile situation and you didn't know who was who, who was trustworthy, who

1126
01:19:46,920 --> 01:19:49,360
wasn't.

1127
01:19:49,360 --> 01:19:50,360
Could they slip or something?

1128
01:19:50,360 --> 01:19:52,000
Could they not slip or something?

1129
01:19:52,000 --> 01:19:56,000
And so we all just kind of came together as a unit to really protect her.

1130
01:19:56,000 --> 01:19:57,960
And then it was time for her to go home.

1131
01:19:57,960 --> 01:20:01,680
There was nothing else that we could do for her.

1132
01:20:01,680 --> 01:20:04,480
She was completely healed.

1133
01:20:04,480 --> 01:20:14,280
And we were talking to her about going to Kabul to stay at a girl's home, to go to school

1134
01:20:14,280 --> 01:20:21,320
and to become educated and to be independent.

1135
01:20:21,320 --> 01:20:29,000
And I and she decided not, right?

1136
01:20:29,000 --> 01:20:32,400
She decided that she was going to go back home to her village.

1137
01:20:32,400 --> 01:20:40,720
And that I still struggle with that because what we ended up finding out later through

1138
01:20:40,720 --> 01:20:46,960
secondary third source is that when she got home, the compromise was that she was married

1139
01:20:46,960 --> 01:20:50,520
off to the guy that raped her.

1140
01:20:50,520 --> 01:20:57,120
And I just wonder where she is, how she is.

1141
01:20:57,120 --> 01:21:04,160
And then to that end, I think of the opposite of had she gone to become educated, right?

1142
01:21:04,160 --> 01:21:06,220
She was 14.

1143
01:21:06,220 --> 01:21:12,040
When Afghanistan fell, she would have been in her late 20s.

1144
01:21:12,040 --> 01:21:16,400
So old enough to make a decision on whether she was going to stay there or move and go

1145
01:21:16,400 --> 01:21:22,560
somewhere safe or was she had stayed there and then been killed by the Taliban anyway?

1146
01:21:22,560 --> 01:21:29,680
You know, you just it's this toss of a fucking coin makes no sense.

1147
01:21:29,680 --> 01:21:31,180
Staying on that theme.

1148
01:21:31,180 --> 01:21:36,520
One of the things I think that was the greatest weight as a paramedic here is I was a black

1149
01:21:36,520 --> 01:21:42,940
cloud and in 14 years as a medic and then before that in EMT, I never had a single code

1150
01:21:42,940 --> 01:21:43,940
save.

1151
01:21:43,940 --> 01:21:47,280
So if you went into cardiac arrest and I was your medic, you were fucked.

1152
01:21:47,280 --> 01:21:52,040
And even last year I was on a flight home from London and on the tarmac before we pushed

1153
01:21:52,040 --> 01:21:55,760
off one of the passengers had a cardiac arrest.

1154
01:21:55,760 --> 01:21:59,160
And you know, no one really kind of was from an emergency background at all.

1155
01:21:59,160 --> 01:22:02,960
I ended up leading the code and there were a couple of people that knew CPR.

1156
01:22:02,960 --> 01:22:07,720
So you know, there were some extra hands, but the cabin crew bless them.

1157
01:22:07,720 --> 01:22:12,520
They wrote they had to ask for permission for every single piece of equipment, the AED,

1158
01:22:12,520 --> 01:22:13,520
the BVM.

1159
01:22:13,520 --> 01:22:18,320
I mean, it was insane and I never even got my hands on drugs or anything.

1160
01:22:18,320 --> 01:22:23,360
And anyway, that gentleman, the fire brigade first came and then the paramedics because

1161
01:22:23,360 --> 01:22:28,400
they're separate in London, ended up working in the galley, you know, and then eventually

1162
01:22:28,400 --> 01:22:33,480
it was time to have to pass off the chest and stepped away.

1163
01:22:33,480 --> 01:22:34,680
But again, he didn't make it.

1164
01:22:34,680 --> 01:22:38,640
And then I read of a person who had a heart attack and there was like 20 cardiologists

1165
01:22:38,640 --> 01:22:42,600
on the plane and they made it and they all had this fucking celebration together.

1166
01:22:42,600 --> 01:22:46,640
But my point being, as you can tell from my frustration is I never had that.

1167
01:22:46,640 --> 01:22:52,320
And so the inability to save, which I think is taught so poorly in medical training, well,

1168
01:22:52,320 --> 01:22:56,440
you know, ACLS, you do this, this, these drugs, this, you know, these jewels.

1169
01:22:56,440 --> 01:22:59,940
And then the person jumps up and brings a cake to the station.

1170
01:22:59,940 --> 01:23:04,520
So I think that's, you know, the, the side for us and the civilian side.

1171
01:23:04,520 --> 01:23:09,200
And I can imagine that must be brutal, you know, in the combat zone too.

1172
01:23:09,200 --> 01:23:11,400
So we've talked about some of the saves.

1173
01:23:11,400 --> 01:23:13,760
What about the inability to save?

1174
01:23:13,760 --> 01:23:14,840
How did you deal with that?

1175
01:23:14,840 --> 01:23:17,080
Has that just started compounding?

1176
01:23:17,080 --> 01:23:22,400
Yeah, I, wow.

1177
01:23:22,400 --> 01:23:28,120
I think that we just beat ourselves up over it, right?

1178
01:23:28,120 --> 01:23:29,320
Could I have done something different?

1179
01:23:29,320 --> 01:23:32,240
We start questioning our skills.

1180
01:23:32,240 --> 01:23:37,240
We start questioning our judgment.

1181
01:23:37,240 --> 01:23:43,800
And I'll never forget the major first, first loss that we had.

1182
01:23:43,800 --> 01:23:48,160
It was on January 17th, 2009.

1183
01:23:48,160 --> 01:23:51,880
The soldier's name was Carla Robinson.

1184
01:23:51,880 --> 01:24:02,560
And he, there was a, there was a, a suicide bomber that had a fuel truck that detonated

1185
01:24:02,560 --> 01:24:06,480
it in Kabul.

1186
01:24:06,480 --> 01:24:11,080
And he came to us, he wasn't even supposed to be my patient.

1187
01:24:11,080 --> 01:24:15,120
The nurse that was supposed to be a patient, she was a hot mess.

1188
01:24:15,120 --> 01:24:21,520
And I was just like, I'll take them, you know, go do what you have to do.

1189
01:24:21,520 --> 01:24:27,040
And he had already come out of the OR.

1190
01:24:27,040 --> 01:24:33,640
He was already obviously intubated and he was just wounded from all over, you know.

1191
01:24:33,640 --> 01:24:42,280
And as soon as he came rolling into the American Bay, he starts coding.

1192
01:24:42,280 --> 01:24:47,080
One of our technicians jumps and is on his chest and doing CPR.

1193
01:24:47,080 --> 01:24:49,080
I'm giving the med cart, rolling it over.

1194
01:24:49,080 --> 01:24:52,440
We were taking turns doing chest compressions.

1195
01:24:52,440 --> 01:25:04,560
And as we are cutting off part of his shirt, I noticed he had two tattoos or one tattoo

1196
01:25:04,560 --> 01:25:06,680
of two small children.

1197
01:25:06,680 --> 01:25:08,680
And I'm like, shit.

1198
01:25:08,680 --> 01:25:10,680
We can't, we can't let this guy die.

1199
01:25:10,680 --> 01:25:11,680
He's a dad.

1200
01:25:11,680 --> 01:25:12,960
Those must be his kids.

1201
01:25:12,960 --> 01:25:15,780
And everybody's looking and we are doing everything.

1202
01:25:15,780 --> 01:25:20,200
We have a Belmont, you know, level one transfuser.

1203
01:25:20,200 --> 01:25:23,640
We are infusing fluids.

1204
01:25:23,640 --> 01:25:28,000
As soon as, and it was Olivia Jackson and Justin Hogue.

1205
01:25:28,000 --> 01:25:33,760
Hogue was the technician and Olivia was the trauma nurse, critical peer nurse.

1206
01:25:33,760 --> 01:25:40,840
As soon as she would spike the bag and put it in, Justin would undo the clamp.

1207
01:25:40,840 --> 01:25:41,840
That sucker was in.

1208
01:25:41,840 --> 01:25:44,040
I mean, it was in seconds.

1209
01:25:44,040 --> 01:25:47,560
The patient had a huge cordis in his IJ.

1210
01:25:47,560 --> 01:25:50,360
And as quickly as it came in, they were switching it out.

1211
01:25:50,360 --> 01:25:54,520
So it literally took the two people to manage the level one.

1212
01:25:54,520 --> 01:25:57,640
And they're just slamming in product after product.

1213
01:25:57,640 --> 01:26:08,920
And we realized that the epi that we're giving is not, it's just not doing what it's supposed

1214
01:26:08,920 --> 01:26:09,920
to be doing.

1215
01:26:09,920 --> 01:26:14,880
So then the physician decides to start injecting them in the heart.

1216
01:26:14,880 --> 01:26:17,080
Well then that led to a cardiac tamponade.

1217
01:26:17,080 --> 01:26:22,520
And so we have to now open the chest wall and relieve the cardiac tamponade.

1218
01:26:22,520 --> 01:26:27,860
And then we then have to start doing the heart massaging.

1219
01:26:27,860 --> 01:26:32,140
We get a shockable rhythm.

1220
01:26:32,140 --> 01:26:33,440
We're doing the internal paddles.

1221
01:26:33,440 --> 01:26:34,640
We shock him.

1222
01:26:34,640 --> 01:26:36,520
We think he's doing okay.

1223
01:26:36,520 --> 01:26:37,700
Like okay, he's going to make it.

1224
01:26:37,700 --> 01:26:38,880
He's going to make it.

1225
01:26:38,880 --> 01:26:41,800
Regardless of how fucked up everything is, right?

1226
01:26:41,800 --> 01:26:52,840
He is really injured.

1227
01:26:52,840 --> 01:26:54,440
And it just wasn't enough.

1228
01:26:54,440 --> 01:27:02,380
I think that everything that we were putting in him was all coming back out in the holes

1229
01:27:02,380 --> 01:27:08,000
and the wounds and all over the floor next to his bed, all over my shoes.

1230
01:27:08,000 --> 01:27:23,680
And this white floor just turned into this puddle of blood and failing.

1231
01:27:23,680 --> 01:27:33,720
And I don't think that anybody wanted to stop because we all knew he was a dad, right?

1232
01:27:33,720 --> 01:27:40,680
And finally when the trauma surgeon called the code, everybody was in tears.

1233
01:27:40,680 --> 01:27:45,400
It was quiet, very, very quiet, but we all had tears rolling down.

1234
01:27:45,400 --> 01:27:52,940
And that moment with all of us as a team, that solidified everybody together as a team.

1235
01:27:52,940 --> 01:27:58,000
From there, everybody just connected.

1236
01:27:58,000 --> 01:27:59,800
It's hard to explain.

1237
01:27:59,800 --> 01:28:03,320
But yeah, no one wanted to give up on him.

1238
01:28:03,320 --> 01:28:05,380
We just wanted him to live.

1239
01:28:05,380 --> 01:28:06,380
And that was a hard one.

1240
01:28:06,380 --> 01:28:08,000
That was really hard for everybody.

1241
01:28:08,000 --> 01:28:12,240
That was for the new team that just got there in country.

1242
01:28:12,240 --> 01:28:18,840
We'd only been there for a few days and that was the first major, major loss.

1243
01:28:18,840 --> 01:28:21,560
You know, and then it just progressed from there.

1244
01:28:21,560 --> 01:28:28,720
We saved a lot, but we lost a lot.

1245
01:28:28,720 --> 01:28:35,040
And just kind of think if I would have noticed something sooner, maybe the outcome would

1246
01:28:35,040 --> 01:28:36,040
have been different.

1247
01:28:36,040 --> 01:28:45,800
If we got them sooner, what if we gave this drug instead of this drug?

1248
01:28:45,800 --> 01:28:50,320
You just go through it over and over and over in your mind and it's hard to let go.

1249
01:28:50,320 --> 01:28:54,640
It's really hard to let go.

1250
01:28:54,640 --> 01:28:58,120
Someone came on the show recently and they made a comment and I'd never really looked

1251
01:28:58,120 --> 01:29:00,000
at it this way before.

1252
01:29:00,000 --> 01:29:05,160
They started off in fire and then they went to law enforcement.

1253
01:29:05,160 --> 01:29:09,600
And the reason was they said in fire, everything is reactive.

1254
01:29:09,600 --> 01:29:12,280
We're just responding to someone's worst day.

1255
01:29:12,280 --> 01:29:16,820
In law enforcement, yes, there's that element, but also you're enforcing rules on the streets

1256
01:29:16,820 --> 01:29:20,680
and other areas where you're also preventing things from happening.

1257
01:29:20,680 --> 01:29:23,480
And I was a lifeguard before I became a firefighter.

1258
01:29:23,480 --> 01:29:26,120
And if you're a good lifeguard, you hardly ever do a rescue.

1259
01:29:26,120 --> 01:29:31,280
You can certainly in a smaller area where you can actually oversee it properly.

1260
01:29:31,280 --> 01:29:35,720
But I think that's one of the maddening things that I saw and it really sent me down the

1261
01:29:35,720 --> 01:29:41,120
podcast, the books, all the things is if you just stand in a field hospital in the middle

1262
01:29:41,120 --> 01:29:45,360
of a war zone, you just keep getting the same people over and over again.

1263
01:29:45,360 --> 01:29:49,760
And you don't realize it at the time in the back of your mind, your brain is saying, when

1264
01:29:49,760 --> 01:29:50,760
is this going to fucking stop?

1265
01:29:50,760 --> 01:29:54,680
When is someone going to stop the reason that all these people are coming in there?

1266
01:29:54,680 --> 01:29:56,280
When are we going to fix this?

1267
01:29:56,280 --> 01:30:00,000
And I think that's one of the things that really beats us down and creates that compassion

1268
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:08,000
fatigue and down the road, even PTSD and God forbid suicide is again, you're taught almost

1269
01:30:08,000 --> 01:30:13,200
to be a superhero in these medical environments and no one's labeling us that way, but you're

1270
01:30:13,200 --> 01:30:16,900
the person between the patient and death supposedly.

1271
01:30:16,900 --> 01:30:20,040
And you fail and you fail and you fail and you fail.

1272
01:30:20,040 --> 01:30:21,440
And again, like you said, you save some people.

1273
01:30:21,440 --> 01:30:22,800
I had pre-code saves.

1274
01:30:22,800 --> 01:30:27,560
Don't get me wrong, but you know, there's so many people that don't survive.

1275
01:30:27,560 --> 01:30:32,960
And I think it's really that lack of logic that why are we not preventing this happening

1276
01:30:32,960 --> 01:30:36,160
in the first place, whether it's starting a war in the first place, whether it's the

1277
01:30:36,160 --> 01:30:42,120
tactics, whatever it is, and our doctors and nurses and paramedics and EMTs are on the

1278
01:30:42,120 --> 01:30:46,800
front line and they're the ones just turning these patients over and over and over.

1279
01:30:46,800 --> 01:30:48,960
Yeah, no, that's it.

1280
01:30:48,960 --> 01:30:50,280
That is well stated.

1281
01:30:50,280 --> 01:30:56,960
It's true and it goes back to what you said earlier on wellness, right?

1282
01:30:56,960 --> 01:30:59,160
Prevention.

1283
01:30:59,160 --> 01:31:08,000
Is it, should we focus more on prevention rather than the money being thrown at diabetic

1284
01:31:08,000 --> 01:31:09,000
medication?

1285
01:31:09,000 --> 01:31:10,000
It's okay.

1286
01:31:10,000 --> 01:31:14,840
Well, how do we prevent type two diabetes in the first place, diet, exercise, so on

1287
01:31:14,840 --> 01:31:16,280
and so forth.

1288
01:31:16,280 --> 01:31:19,320
But yeah, how do you prevent that?

1289
01:31:19,320 --> 01:31:25,040
And to even get to where we were in the first place with this whole thing.

1290
01:31:25,040 --> 01:31:30,600
The compassion fatigue, I think, you know, many of the times that I was there in Afghanistan,

1291
01:31:30,600 --> 01:31:36,200
I was the charge nurse and God, and I even took a picture of this and I have the picture

1292
01:31:36,200 --> 01:31:38,520
somewhere.

1293
01:31:38,520 --> 01:31:45,360
Our board, our ICU board was packed with patients and we had overflow patients.

1294
01:31:45,360 --> 01:31:54,200
And by this time, it was the standard instead of everything was X fix, IED blast, you know,

1295
01:31:54,200 --> 01:31:58,960
I just started finally writing broken body, broken body, broken body, broken body, broken

1296
01:31:58,960 --> 01:32:02,420
body because that's what it was.

1297
01:32:02,420 --> 01:32:08,080
You know, you get to this point, it's just like, I am so tired of writing the same stuff

1298
01:32:08,080 --> 01:32:12,640
for every single patient because they're all broken.

1299
01:32:12,640 --> 01:32:21,800
And I remember telling my team because everybody was struggling, everybody was struggling.

1300
01:32:21,800 --> 01:32:26,720
They were struggling at the beginning of seeing and being part of what this was.

1301
01:32:26,720 --> 01:32:29,440
I was too, don't get me wrong.

1302
01:32:29,440 --> 01:32:35,160
But I remember I was always the one that looked at the positive side, right?

1303
01:32:35,160 --> 01:32:36,920
And I would always make fun of everything.

1304
01:32:36,920 --> 01:32:41,360
And I have such a crazy sense of humor now that people on the civilian side that are

1305
01:32:41,360 --> 01:32:46,000
not medical, that they just kind of look at me and think, oh my God, she's too much for

1306
01:32:46,000 --> 01:32:47,000
me.

1307
01:32:47,000 --> 01:32:48,000
She's weird.

1308
01:32:48,000 --> 01:32:53,360
But that's the way that I cope with things is I joke and I laugh.

1309
01:32:53,360 --> 01:32:59,120
So I remember telling them, listen, it's about how we start this mission that people are

1310
01:32:59,120 --> 01:33:01,480
going to remember us by.

1311
01:33:01,480 --> 01:33:02,680
So focus on that.

1312
01:33:02,680 --> 01:33:07,500
We always have to put our best foot forward and be a good example.

1313
01:33:07,500 --> 01:33:09,820
If you don't know something, say you don't know it.

1314
01:33:09,820 --> 01:33:11,000
It's okay.

1315
01:33:11,000 --> 01:33:16,800
And because people would make fun of me, I would have my critical care quick checklist

1316
01:33:16,800 --> 01:33:18,160
book that I had.

1317
01:33:18,160 --> 01:33:20,440
I think her last name is white.

1318
01:33:20,440 --> 01:33:22,640
She sent us a bunch of books for free, which I loved.

1319
01:33:22,640 --> 01:33:24,160
I carried that thing everywhere I went.

1320
01:33:24,160 --> 01:33:33,120
I had different colors of pens, my markers, my trauma shears, tape, anything I needed

1321
01:33:33,120 --> 01:33:34,280
I had on me.

1322
01:33:34,280 --> 01:33:38,560
And people would be like, damn, Collins, you carry like a whole reference guide.

1323
01:33:38,560 --> 01:33:41,640
I'm like, that's all right, because I know where to go.

1324
01:33:41,640 --> 01:33:45,960
I don't know everything and I shouldn't know everything, but I know where my resources

1325
01:33:45,960 --> 01:33:46,960
are.

1326
01:33:46,960 --> 01:33:49,760
And so that was kind of a funny joke.

1327
01:33:49,760 --> 01:33:54,400
So I would tell them, again, as long as you know where your resources are, you can't know

1328
01:33:54,400 --> 01:33:56,160
everything all the time.

1329
01:33:56,160 --> 01:34:00,760
So it's how we start out is how people are going to remember us.

1330
01:34:00,760 --> 01:34:03,960
And so that was kind of like the theme for a while.

1331
01:34:03,960 --> 01:34:07,280
And you hit midpoint of this deployment and people are tired.

1332
01:34:07,280 --> 01:34:08,420
They're compassion fatigue.

1333
01:34:08,420 --> 01:34:11,400
They're just like, I can't do another broken body again.

1334
01:34:11,400 --> 01:34:13,320
I can't see another baby.

1335
01:34:13,320 --> 01:34:17,240
I can't see another child with ball bearings stuck in their brain and their chest because

1336
01:34:17,240 --> 01:34:23,080
some asshole decides to blow up a market with ball bearings that go and shatter, you know,

1337
01:34:23,080 --> 01:34:24,920
and kill all these people.

1338
01:34:24,920 --> 01:34:26,920
I just, you know, I just can't do it.

1339
01:34:26,920 --> 01:34:27,920
I can't do it.

1340
01:34:27,920 --> 01:34:29,720
And then I can't do it either.

1341
01:34:29,720 --> 01:34:30,720
I'm tired.

1342
01:34:30,720 --> 01:34:33,120
I am frustrated.

1343
01:34:33,120 --> 01:34:39,480
And it's like, okay, listen, it's how we persevere through this is how people are going to remember

1344
01:34:39,480 --> 01:34:40,480
us by.

1345
01:34:40,480 --> 01:34:41,920
No one cares how we started off now.

1346
01:34:41,920 --> 01:34:43,460
Now we're in the thick of it.

1347
01:34:43,460 --> 01:34:49,300
It's how are we going to take care of each other and persevere to the end.

1348
01:34:49,300 --> 01:34:50,400
So we're going to do this.

1349
01:34:50,400 --> 01:34:51,400
We're strong.

1350
01:34:51,400 --> 01:34:52,400
We got each other.

1351
01:34:52,400 --> 01:34:53,400
We're going to make it.

1352
01:34:53,400 --> 01:34:54,400
It's going to be fine.

1353
01:34:54,400 --> 01:34:55,400
We're all here for one another.

1354
01:34:55,400 --> 01:34:57,860
We're going to, we're going to persevere through this.

1355
01:34:57,860 --> 01:34:58,860
And it's that pep talk, right?

1356
01:34:58,860 --> 01:34:59,860
And they're like, yeah, okay.

1357
01:34:59,860 --> 01:35:01,220
Yeah, it's you're right.

1358
01:35:01,220 --> 01:35:04,680
It's how we're going to get through this that people are going to remember us by.

1359
01:35:04,680 --> 01:35:07,720
And at the end, they're like fucking done.

1360
01:35:07,720 --> 01:35:09,000
They're over it.

1361
01:35:09,000 --> 01:35:11,060
They're, they're tired of everything.

1362
01:35:11,060 --> 01:35:12,740
All of the bullshit there.

1363
01:35:12,740 --> 01:35:14,080
They're over it.

1364
01:35:14,080 --> 01:35:19,160
And they're like Collins, I don't think we could do another day.

1365
01:35:19,160 --> 01:35:24,480
All right, guys, listen, it's how we finish is what's going to matter the most and how

1366
01:35:24,480 --> 01:35:26,920
people are going to remember us by.

1367
01:35:26,920 --> 01:35:30,400
And they're like, wait, wait, wait, wait, you said it's how we're going to start.

1368
01:35:30,400 --> 01:35:33,060
It's that people are going to remember us how we persevere.

1369
01:35:33,060 --> 01:35:34,840
And now you're saying it's how we finish.

1370
01:35:34,840 --> 01:35:36,920
Hell yeah, it's how we finish.

1371
01:35:36,920 --> 01:35:42,360
Are we going to finish walking across the finish line or are we going to finish breaking

1372
01:35:42,360 --> 01:35:46,600
down and pulling our weapon out and wanting to shoot everybody here in the hospital?

1373
01:35:46,600 --> 01:35:51,160
Because that in fact did happen with one of our nurses on our med search side.

1374
01:35:51,160 --> 01:35:59,200
I said, and we just had one of our technicians, solid, solid individual, really sharp, really

1375
01:35:59,200 --> 01:36:05,200
good and she was told she was going to go home, I think like a month early.

1376
01:36:05,200 --> 01:36:10,520
And so mentally she shifted her mental set and she was ready to go home in a month.

1377
01:36:10,520 --> 01:36:12,560
And they came back and said, no, no, no, it's going to be two weeks.

1378
01:36:12,560 --> 01:36:14,120
You're going to have to wait two weeks.

1379
01:36:14,120 --> 01:36:16,500
And she waited that two weeks.

1380
01:36:16,500 --> 01:36:24,080
And for her, it was almost like no matter what she had done for the first six months,

1381
01:36:24,080 --> 01:36:28,760
everybody looked at this person as all she could do was cry.

1382
01:36:28,760 --> 01:36:29,800
She couldn't work anymore.

1383
01:36:29,800 --> 01:36:31,480
She couldn't function anymore.

1384
01:36:31,480 --> 01:36:38,440
All she did was was ball and had to be sent home or back to her, her, uh, where she, uh,

1385
01:36:38,440 --> 01:36:40,760
dorm that.

1386
01:36:40,760 --> 01:36:42,800
And I use that as an example.

1387
01:36:42,800 --> 01:36:47,220
I said, we have to finish out strong.

1388
01:36:47,220 --> 01:36:52,480
Look at so and so this, you hear what, what other people are saying.

1389
01:36:52,480 --> 01:36:53,480
It shouldn't be true.

1390
01:36:53,480 --> 01:36:55,560
And it's not true because she was amazing.

1391
01:36:55,560 --> 01:37:02,080
She, she was solid all this time, but this whole mental shift here, we got to stay true

1392
01:37:02,080 --> 01:37:03,080
to the mission.

1393
01:37:03,080 --> 01:37:04,280
We got to finish this out strong.

1394
01:37:04,280 --> 01:37:10,360
And then once we're done the last day and we walk out of this fucking hell hole, we're

1395
01:37:10,360 --> 01:37:11,960
done.

1396
01:37:11,960 --> 01:37:12,960
We all can cry.

1397
01:37:12,960 --> 01:37:13,960
We could all hug.

1398
01:37:13,960 --> 01:37:17,120
We could all do whatever we need to do, but it's how we finished this mission is what

1399
01:37:17,120 --> 01:37:19,840
people are going to remember us by.

1400
01:37:19,840 --> 01:37:20,960
Was it the right way?

1401
01:37:20,960 --> 01:37:21,960
I don't know.

1402
01:37:21,960 --> 01:37:25,760
You know, hearing it now sounds really kind of fucked up.

1403
01:37:25,760 --> 01:37:31,180
Um, but it got us through, right?

1404
01:37:31,180 --> 01:37:35,760
I think the unsung heroes of the military and the first responder professions are our

1405
01:37:35,760 --> 01:37:36,760
families.

1406
01:37:36,760 --> 01:37:41,400
Now you have deployed to Afghanistan, you know, for, for nine months, you've mentioned

1407
01:37:41,400 --> 01:37:42,800
Clinton, your husband, and I'm right.

1408
01:37:42,800 --> 01:37:47,000
And thinking you had two little girls where that point three, three little girls.

1409
01:37:47,000 --> 01:37:48,000
Yeah.

1410
01:37:48,000 --> 01:37:49,000
So talk to me about that.

1411
01:37:49,000 --> 01:37:53,760
A lot of times we hear, you know, the father deploying, but I mean, there's no question

1412
01:37:53,760 --> 01:37:58,880
with all these unusual conversations now of genders and all the other stuff, but you know,

1413
01:37:58,880 --> 01:38:00,840
the mother is the one that carried the child.

1414
01:38:00,840 --> 01:38:06,040
So there is that bond that is different being the father, even though we adore our children.

1415
01:38:06,040 --> 01:38:08,080
So talk to me about that.

1416
01:38:08,080 --> 01:38:12,960
You being away from your family through your lens, but also the strength of your husband,

1417
01:38:12,960 --> 01:38:15,960
you know, holding down the fort while you were gone as well.

1418
01:38:15,960 --> 01:38:22,560
Uh, no, he, he was amazing, uh, early on, uh, gosh, he was in the air force.

1419
01:38:22,560 --> 01:38:23,840
So he and I met in the air force.

1420
01:38:23,840 --> 01:38:27,680
He was a security forces, uh, air force cop as well.

1421
01:38:27,680 --> 01:38:29,400
And that's where we met.

1422
01:38:29,400 --> 01:38:34,280
And then he ended up leaving the service after eight years to go work for the federal government

1423
01:38:34,280 --> 01:38:36,160
with Homeland security.

1424
01:38:36,160 --> 01:38:40,920
And he did that for, I want to say probably almost five years.

1425
01:38:40,920 --> 01:38:44,200
And that's when I finished my nursing program.

1426
01:38:44,200 --> 01:38:49,900
And at that point in time, we had already had our second daughter and we were discussing

1427
01:38:49,900 --> 01:38:53,560
what we wanted for our life, for our children.

1428
01:38:53,560 --> 01:38:55,720
He was raised with a stay at home mom.

1429
01:38:55,720 --> 01:38:57,800
I was raised with a stay at home mom.

1430
01:38:57,800 --> 01:38:59,680
And that's what we wanted for our kids.

1431
01:38:59,680 --> 01:39:05,160
It just, I couldn't be the one that did it because I don't have the personality for it.

1432
01:39:05,160 --> 01:39:06,800
I joke.

1433
01:39:06,800 --> 01:39:12,600
I think that I would probably like, I would not be a good parent to my kids if I had to

1434
01:39:12,600 --> 01:39:13,600
stay home with them.

1435
01:39:13,600 --> 01:39:15,080
But I know that true and true.

1436
01:39:15,080 --> 01:39:20,000
And it's okay that I state that because for me that's fact.

1437
01:39:20,000 --> 01:39:24,360
And so when we had this discussion, he said, I'll stay home.

1438
01:39:24,360 --> 01:39:27,720
I said, you'll be the stay at home parent.

1439
01:39:27,720 --> 01:39:30,360
He's like, yeah, you go, you do your thing.

1440
01:39:30,360 --> 01:39:34,880
I'll support you in your career and I'll stay home and I'll take care of the kids.

1441
01:39:34,880 --> 01:39:37,440
And we really kind of sat on that.

1442
01:39:37,440 --> 01:39:44,560
And I said, if you're willing to do that, I'm willing to be the breadwinner.

1443
01:39:44,560 --> 01:39:47,720
And we made that agreement and that's what we did.

1444
01:39:47,720 --> 01:39:51,240
And so he then stayed home.

1445
01:39:51,240 --> 01:39:57,280
I went back into the air force and the great thing about him is that he understood the

1446
01:39:57,280 --> 01:40:00,620
role because that's what that is, what he did.

1447
01:40:00,620 --> 01:40:12,280
He understood the role of a spouse of a military person and what was required of him.

1448
01:40:12,280 --> 01:40:21,560
And so he built this unsinkable ship for me and our daughters.

1449
01:40:21,560 --> 01:40:23,780
He was the mom and the dad, right?

1450
01:40:23,780 --> 01:40:25,580
When I couldn't be there.

1451
01:40:25,580 --> 01:40:35,600
And he created this solid foundation for our girls to really not want for anything emotionally

1452
01:40:35,600 --> 01:40:40,440
wise the comforts.

1453
01:40:40,440 --> 01:40:42,060
Yes, absolutely.

1454
01:40:42,060 --> 01:40:44,960
They wanted their mom and he couldn't fulfill that role.

1455
01:40:44,960 --> 01:40:46,120
And that was hard, right?

1456
01:40:46,120 --> 01:40:47,120
That was hard for me.

1457
01:40:47,120 --> 01:40:51,380
It would carry a lot of guilt for that.

1458
01:40:51,380 --> 01:40:55,040
But he just established this role and that's what the girls know.

1459
01:40:55,040 --> 01:40:56,080
They don't know any different.

1460
01:40:56,080 --> 01:40:58,120
They don't know what it's like to have a stay at home mom.

1461
01:40:58,120 --> 01:41:02,040
All they know in their life, even up till this day, is what it was like to have a stay

1462
01:41:02,040 --> 01:41:03,040
at home dad.

1463
01:41:03,040 --> 01:41:05,360
So it's not like they feel like they're missing anything.

1464
01:41:05,360 --> 01:41:12,080
I know that they wish that they had me more when they were growing up.

1465
01:41:12,080 --> 01:41:21,480
But when I got tapped to go to the war, I think I was, he was good.

1466
01:41:21,480 --> 01:41:22,620
We both were good to go.

1467
01:41:22,620 --> 01:41:28,660
We both understood our roles and the way we are as a family is we are a team.

1468
01:41:28,660 --> 01:41:30,120
Team first.

1469
01:41:30,120 --> 01:41:32,200
Everybody has their role to play.

1470
01:41:32,200 --> 01:41:33,840
My girls, they pick up their room.

1471
01:41:33,840 --> 01:41:38,800
They need to make sure that they keep up, take care, you know, pick up after themselves.

1472
01:41:38,800 --> 01:41:45,880
And the girls, it's funny, they're great kids, by the way, many adults rather.

1473
01:41:45,880 --> 01:41:54,440
And they knew that if one of us didn't pick up our role, that it wouldn't work as a team.

1474
01:41:54,440 --> 01:41:57,800
So they all encouraged each other to make sure that they did what they were responsible

1475
01:41:57,800 --> 01:42:04,360
to do, which I wanted nothing more than to help develop them into responsible good citizens,

1476
01:42:04,360 --> 01:42:10,200
right, that cared about the community, cared about people, cared about humanity overall,

1477
01:42:10,200 --> 01:42:15,160
regardless of skin color, regardless of country, regardless of element.

1478
01:42:15,160 --> 01:42:16,160
It didn't matter.

1479
01:42:16,160 --> 01:42:22,560
But that compassion and love towards other human beings was the most important piece.

1480
01:42:22,560 --> 01:42:27,520
And Clinton absolutely hit that home, right, when I wasn't there and around.

1481
01:42:27,520 --> 01:42:37,680
So then when I went off to war, he settled in and did everything he could to support

1482
01:42:37,680 --> 01:42:39,840
these girls and to support me.

1483
01:42:39,840 --> 01:42:44,120
I think my family had a hard time with it.

1484
01:42:44,120 --> 01:42:48,960
I'm Mexican, and the traditional way is that the husband works and the husband goes off

1485
01:42:48,960 --> 01:42:53,800
to war and the stay at home person is the mom.

1486
01:42:53,800 --> 01:42:55,440
But that wasn't our story.

1487
01:42:55,440 --> 01:42:59,960
That wouldn't have worked for us in a relationship.

1488
01:42:59,960 --> 01:43:04,560
But he would love my girls enough for the both of us at that time.

1489
01:43:04,560 --> 01:43:05,560
Still wasn't the same.

1490
01:43:05,560 --> 01:43:09,340
You know, I remember my daughter telling me, my oldest daughter saying, you know, sometimes

1491
01:43:09,340 --> 01:43:11,200
I just want you.

1492
01:43:11,200 --> 01:43:14,520
You're my mom and I want to tell you certain things.

1493
01:43:14,520 --> 01:43:17,960
And I just want you to hold me and tell me it's going to be okay.

1494
01:43:17,960 --> 01:43:21,800
When I cry, I want you to be there.

1495
01:43:21,800 --> 01:43:26,440
And I couldn't, right?

1496
01:43:26,440 --> 01:43:32,280
But that's the path that we chose.

1497
01:43:32,280 --> 01:43:34,960
He was an incredible father.

1498
01:43:34,960 --> 01:43:38,160
My oldest or our oldest, I should say, is now 27.

1499
01:43:38,160 --> 01:43:42,920
Our middle daughter is 20 and our youngest daughter is 17.

1500
01:43:42,920 --> 01:43:48,560
My youngest, Reagan, when I was gone, she knew me on Skype.

1501
01:43:48,560 --> 01:43:55,000
Back then Skype was the one that the way of communicating via computer.

1502
01:43:55,000 --> 01:43:56,280
She knew me on Skype.

1503
01:43:56,280 --> 01:44:00,280
She knew mommy, mommy, and she would point to the screen.

1504
01:44:00,280 --> 01:44:03,800
When I redeployed home, it was a totally different story.

1505
01:44:03,800 --> 01:44:06,600
She really didn't know who I was.

1506
01:44:06,600 --> 01:44:08,200
She wouldn't come to me.

1507
01:44:08,200 --> 01:44:14,560
I tried at the airport to embrace her and she kind of was like, no, I'm good.

1508
01:44:14,560 --> 01:44:15,560
You stay there.

1509
01:44:15,560 --> 01:44:16,640
Really not sure who you are.

1510
01:44:16,640 --> 01:44:19,360
But I want my dad.

1511
01:44:19,360 --> 01:44:25,080
And at one point she was calling Clinton mommy as well.

1512
01:44:25,080 --> 01:44:29,400
And that I tried really kind of preparing myself for that.

1513
01:44:29,400 --> 01:44:31,360
She wouldn't want to come see me.

1514
01:44:31,360 --> 01:44:37,280
And I mentally was trying to prepare myself for that.

1515
01:44:37,280 --> 01:44:38,280
But it still hurt.

1516
01:44:38,280 --> 01:44:40,800
No matter how much I prepared myself, it still hurt.

1517
01:44:40,800 --> 01:44:42,280
But she's a baby.

1518
01:44:42,280 --> 01:44:43,280
She doesn't know.

1519
01:44:43,280 --> 01:44:49,240
She had just turned two years old the month before.

1520
01:44:49,240 --> 01:44:52,840
And it took her quite a while to finally warm up to me.

1521
01:44:52,840 --> 01:44:58,520
At one point, because she wouldn't let me hold her, I remember going into our bedroom

1522
01:44:58,520 --> 01:45:01,760
in the back of the house calling the computer via Skype.

1523
01:45:01,760 --> 01:45:06,360
And I can hear her as soon as the chime of the tone came on.

1524
01:45:06,360 --> 01:45:12,720
She started running from her playroom to the computer yelling mommy, mommy, mommy, mommy.

1525
01:45:12,720 --> 01:45:14,960
And she jumps up on the chair.

1526
01:45:14,960 --> 01:45:16,680
I was watching her from around the corner.

1527
01:45:16,680 --> 01:45:22,640
She ran and Clinton says, you know, mommy wants to talk to you.

1528
01:45:22,640 --> 01:45:27,360
And she jumps up on the chair and she's leaning over the camera with her pigtails and she

1529
01:45:27,360 --> 01:45:32,120
flips up the computer screen and just this huge smile that she has.

1530
01:45:32,120 --> 01:45:34,160
I'll never forget it.

1531
01:45:34,160 --> 01:45:37,200
And you know, she's just trying to talk to me.

1532
01:45:37,200 --> 01:45:42,840
And then I come walking around from the hallway and I said, mommy's right here.

1533
01:45:42,840 --> 01:45:47,360
And then she looks up above and she sees me walking with my laptop and she looks at the

1534
01:45:47,360 --> 01:45:52,900
computer screen and it's this whole level of confusion for her.

1535
01:45:52,900 --> 01:45:57,720
And I remember closing the computer laptop and I looked at her and I said, mommy's right

1536
01:45:57,720 --> 01:45:58,720
here.

1537
01:45:58,720 --> 01:45:59,720
Mommy's here.

1538
01:45:59,720 --> 01:46:01,500
Mommy, the screen mommy's here.

1539
01:46:01,500 --> 01:46:07,080
And she looked and I just kind of picked her up and was trying to hug her really tight.

1540
01:46:07,080 --> 01:46:11,640
And she's just kind of still kind of halfway hugging, kind of pushing her head away.

1541
01:46:11,640 --> 01:46:13,560
But we eventually ended up getting there.

1542
01:46:13,560 --> 01:46:15,120
But that was a tough one.

1543
01:46:15,120 --> 01:46:17,200
That was really tough for me.

1544
01:46:17,200 --> 01:46:20,360
That must have been, must have been horrendous.

1545
01:46:20,360 --> 01:46:27,160
With the transition, excuse me, the transition itself, you did nine months in the combat

1546
01:46:27,160 --> 01:46:28,160
zone itself.

1547
01:46:28,160 --> 01:46:35,240
You've done a decade prior to that in the law enforcement uniform.

1548
01:46:35,240 --> 01:46:37,300
What made you to decide to transition out?

1549
01:46:37,300 --> 01:46:39,320
And then what was that transition like?

1550
01:46:39,320 --> 01:46:43,760
Because so many of our first responders are military struggle.

1551
01:46:43,760 --> 01:46:46,920
That's their identity, their tribe, their purpose.

1552
01:46:46,920 --> 01:46:50,360
And then obviously it sounds like you're going to an incredibly cohesive home.

1553
01:46:50,360 --> 01:46:53,760
So I'm sure that was a big part of the healing.

1554
01:46:53,760 --> 01:46:55,820
But what made you transition out?

1555
01:46:55,820 --> 01:46:58,440
And then what was the dynamic of yours personally?

1556
01:46:58,440 --> 01:46:59,440
Yeah.

1557
01:46:59,440 --> 01:47:06,160
So when I got home, redeployed home, a good friend of mine, Kristy Sherbrink, her and

1558
01:47:06,160 --> 01:47:07,700
her spouse, same thing.

1559
01:47:07,700 --> 01:47:09,480
Her spouse was a stay at home dad.

1560
01:47:09,480 --> 01:47:14,840
She was like the only other person that I knew that we had the opposites.

1561
01:47:14,840 --> 01:47:18,400
And she was, she had just had a baby.

1562
01:47:18,400 --> 01:47:21,440
Her son was not even six months old.

1563
01:47:21,440 --> 01:47:26,580
And he might've been only five months old, but he was a little guy.

1564
01:47:26,580 --> 01:47:33,200
And the, she was getting ready to be tapped to deploy for the same length of time that

1565
01:47:33,200 --> 01:47:34,920
I was gone.

1566
01:47:34,920 --> 01:47:40,640
And Kristy came to me and she's like, my, my, my baby.

1567
01:47:40,640 --> 01:47:48,540
And I'm like, I know, I just can't see you leaving so soon.

1568
01:47:48,540 --> 01:47:54,240
She was still breastfeeding and he still would have been an infant, right?

1569
01:47:54,240 --> 01:47:58,400
By the time she would deploy and it just, you know, and that, and that's the thing with,

1570
01:47:58,400 --> 01:48:04,020
with military service, the military didn't issue, issue you a family.

1571
01:48:04,020 --> 01:48:05,440
They didn't issue you a house.

1572
01:48:05,440 --> 01:48:07,160
They didn't issue you a car.

1573
01:48:07,160 --> 01:48:08,160
That's not their responsibility.

1574
01:48:08,160 --> 01:48:12,520
What their responsibility is you signed a contract you're serving.

1575
01:48:12,520 --> 01:48:17,960
And I think at that time, Kristy's contract was up and she had the choice to either stay

1576
01:48:17,960 --> 01:48:21,440
in or, or get out.

1577
01:48:21,440 --> 01:48:30,320
And, and she had told me, James, I was getting off the airplane when I redeployed home, said

1578
01:48:30,320 --> 01:48:35,160
hello to my husband, to my family, gave her a hug and a kiss.

1579
01:48:35,160 --> 01:48:39,520
Cause she was there when I, when I arrived home and she says, I know you need to see

1580
01:48:39,520 --> 01:48:42,640
everybody, but I'm telling you, we're getting out of the air force and we're doing it.

1581
01:48:42,640 --> 01:48:45,480
We're doing a cross-service transfer to the United States public health service commission

1582
01:48:45,480 --> 01:48:46,480
core.

1583
01:48:46,480 --> 01:48:48,720
And I'm like, what the hell is the commission core?

1584
01:48:48,720 --> 01:48:49,720
What?

1585
01:48:49,720 --> 01:48:50,720
She goes, nevermind.

1586
01:48:50,720 --> 01:48:51,840
I got it all figured out.

1587
01:48:51,840 --> 01:48:55,120
You go say hi to your husband, go say hi to your dad and your mom.

1588
01:48:55,120 --> 01:48:56,120
I'm going to tell you about it later.

1589
01:48:56,120 --> 01:48:57,520
And I'm like, okay.

1590
01:48:57,520 --> 01:49:08,440
So of course do all the hellos and stuff and, and about, I don't know, five days later,

1591
01:49:08,440 --> 01:49:10,160
like Kristy, what is this about?

1592
01:49:10,160 --> 01:49:12,360
Tell me, come over, let's talk.

1593
01:49:12,360 --> 01:49:16,640
And she's telling me about the United States public health service commission core that

1594
01:49:16,640 --> 01:49:23,560
it's a only officer service in the United States that is under the department of health

1595
01:49:23,560 --> 01:49:24,560
and human services.

1596
01:49:24,560 --> 01:49:28,880
A lot of people think that we're Navy because we have nautical roots like the Navy.

1597
01:49:28,880 --> 01:49:31,940
We wear the same uniform as the Navy.

1598
01:49:31,940 --> 01:49:33,280
People think that we're the Navy.

1599
01:49:33,280 --> 01:49:38,240
And because the commission core is so small, people just chalk us up over there.

1600
01:49:38,240 --> 01:49:42,680
They're part of the Navy instead of having to sit there and explain in a dissertation

1601
01:49:42,680 --> 01:49:44,960
what the public health services.

1602
01:49:44,960 --> 01:49:47,480
And so people just automatically assumed it was the Navy.

1603
01:49:47,480 --> 01:49:56,400
So she says we, the whole premise behind the public health service is that we deploy to

1604
01:49:56,400 --> 01:49:59,840
our needs, the United States is needs.

1605
01:49:59,840 --> 01:50:00,840
What?

1606
01:50:00,840 --> 01:50:07,920
She goes, anytime there's a manmade disaster, national disaster, if there is an epidemic

1607
01:50:07,920 --> 01:50:14,920
of some sort, if there's whatever is taking over the United States of America and there's,

1608
01:50:14,920 --> 01:50:21,760
there's been a declared a national emergency, we deploy and we support that initiative and

1609
01:50:21,760 --> 01:50:23,280
we help our own Americans.

1610
01:50:23,280 --> 01:50:30,600
It's not like we're going to Afghanistan, Iraq, wherever we support U.S.

1611
01:50:30,600 --> 01:50:32,760
Like I can get behind that.

1612
01:50:32,760 --> 01:50:33,760
Okay.

1613
01:50:33,760 --> 01:50:40,360
She says we can go, we can go and serve with the IHS, Indian health services.

1614
01:50:40,360 --> 01:50:47,240
Right now they're taking people at the Navajo reservation in Tuba City, Arizona.

1615
01:50:47,240 --> 01:50:48,240
That's where we're going.

1616
01:50:48,240 --> 01:50:49,920
Said that's where we're going.

1617
01:50:49,920 --> 01:50:54,160
And she goes, yep, we're, I've already set up a trip for me, you, we're going to take

1618
01:50:54,160 --> 01:50:57,240
the two boys, our husbands, we're going to drive to Tuba City.

1619
01:50:57,240 --> 01:50:59,980
It was like a six hour drive or something.

1620
01:50:59,980 --> 01:51:05,160
We're going to meet the nurse manager there and we're going to, we're going to do this.

1621
01:51:05,160 --> 01:51:10,800
And at that point I'm thinking, I can't leave my kids yet.

1622
01:51:10,800 --> 01:51:15,980
And when I had redeployed home, they had me, my leadership had me on a leadership track

1623
01:51:15,980 --> 01:51:21,180
to where they wanted me to go to this leadership conference and I would have only have been

1624
01:51:21,180 --> 01:51:22,360
home for like six weeks.

1625
01:51:22,360 --> 01:51:24,900
The leadership conference was for a month.

1626
01:51:24,900 --> 01:51:32,640
They wanted me to finish up a schooling that was going to take me away again for seven

1627
01:51:32,640 --> 01:51:34,600
weeks.

1628
01:51:34,600 --> 01:51:39,720
And then the potential of redeploying at the end of the year, because the resources were

1629
01:51:39,720 --> 01:51:46,160
so scarce for a critical care nurse across the United, across the air force as a whole.

1630
01:51:46,160 --> 01:51:52,720
So there were all these conversations about me doing like a chess piece, right?

1631
01:51:52,720 --> 01:51:57,920
A chess board piece where they could put me here and then here and then over here.

1632
01:51:57,920 --> 01:51:59,640
And I start thinking about the timeframe.

1633
01:51:59,640 --> 01:52:02,860
It's August, August, September, October, November, December.

1634
01:52:02,860 --> 01:52:03,860
That's five months, right?

1635
01:52:03,860 --> 01:52:09,980
By the end of the year, more than likely I will be gone for another three months out

1636
01:52:09,980 --> 01:52:12,880
of those next five months.

1637
01:52:12,880 --> 01:52:17,660
And the first thing I thought, I just got my youngest daughter to finally actually hug

1638
01:52:17,660 --> 01:52:20,320
me and tell me that she loves me.

1639
01:52:20,320 --> 01:52:24,560
It's taken, you know, a month and a half.

1640
01:52:24,560 --> 01:52:26,000
I'm happy to go and redeploy.

1641
01:52:26,000 --> 01:52:29,840
I just need a little more time with my kids.

1642
01:52:29,840 --> 01:52:33,020
I just need a little, I need to make up some time.

1643
01:52:33,020 --> 01:52:35,600
And that just, you know, wasn't an option.

1644
01:52:35,600 --> 01:52:41,000
And so when Christie started talking to me about this other option, it really resonated

1645
01:52:41,000 --> 01:52:42,680
with me, you know?

1646
01:52:42,680 --> 01:52:47,340
And then I went to went to Tuba City with Christie and I'm like, this is a wonderful

1647
01:52:47,340 --> 01:52:53,960
place to kind of heal for me anyway, from the journey that I've just been on, not only

1648
01:52:53,960 --> 01:53:01,780
to heal, but to to really connect with the earth and the elements and cry all day if

1649
01:53:01,780 --> 01:53:05,240
I want to cry all day, hide in the closet all day if I wanted to hide in the closet,

1650
01:53:05,240 --> 01:53:10,120
but that I would be supporting the Native American community and the Hopi community

1651
01:53:10,120 --> 01:53:16,160
and helping them with chronic care diseases, disease management.

1652
01:53:16,160 --> 01:53:19,040
And that sounded good for me.

1653
01:53:19,040 --> 01:53:25,620
And for the first time in almost 15 years, I now was choosing my family over the Air

1654
01:53:25,620 --> 01:53:31,980
Force when every time before it was always the Air Force over my family.

1655
01:53:31,980 --> 01:53:36,440
And that I knew that was going to be a hard choice, because even now I still get choked

1656
01:53:36,440 --> 01:53:37,440
up about it.

1657
01:53:37,440 --> 01:53:42,760
Sometimes you talk about a community, the camaraderie, the identity, that's who I had

1658
01:53:42,760 --> 01:53:43,760
been.

1659
01:53:43,760 --> 01:53:44,760
That's who I was.

1660
01:53:44,760 --> 01:53:53,480
The Air Force raised me, the Air Force molded me to who I was and brought out these really

1661
01:53:53,480 --> 01:54:01,000
good silver linings of who I was in my character and who I wanted to be and who I aspired to

1662
01:54:01,000 --> 01:54:04,600
be as a leader.

1663
01:54:04,600 --> 01:54:12,720
And then to have to pack all that up and make a choice that I now have to choose my family

1664
01:54:12,720 --> 01:54:17,480
over who I would become with the Air Force was hard.

1665
01:54:17,480 --> 01:54:20,120
It was really, really hard.

1666
01:54:20,120 --> 01:54:24,240
And I still grappled with that for many years after.

1667
01:54:24,240 --> 01:54:29,360
So I did the cross-service transfer.

1668
01:54:29,360 --> 01:54:31,240
I struggled mentally.

1669
01:54:31,240 --> 01:54:36,960
I struggled quite a bit and turned to drinking, drank a lot.

1670
01:54:36,960 --> 01:54:44,940
And at one point, my middle daughter at the time who was four years old found me passed

1671
01:54:44,940 --> 01:54:52,160
out in the bathroom and she's crying, calling me, mommy, mommy, wake up, wake up, get up,

1672
01:54:52,160 --> 01:54:53,160
get up.

1673
01:54:53,160 --> 01:54:57,880
And at that point in time, I realized I can't do this.

1674
01:54:57,880 --> 01:54:59,360
This is not the example I want to set.

1675
01:54:59,360 --> 01:55:03,380
I was taught better.

1676
01:55:03,380 --> 01:55:04,880
This is an easy cop out.

1677
01:55:04,880 --> 01:55:07,480
The pain was so real.

1678
01:55:07,480 --> 01:55:09,720
The struggle was so real.

1679
01:55:09,720 --> 01:55:14,880
Nightmares, the whole nine yards, it just wouldn't stop.

1680
01:55:14,880 --> 01:55:23,920
And the stigma with going and getting mental health is a real thing back then in the Air

1681
01:55:23,920 --> 01:55:24,920
Force.

1682
01:55:24,920 --> 01:55:30,600
You go get help and then there's this kind of a check mark by your name of, oh, well,

1683
01:55:30,600 --> 01:55:35,840
she's probably may not be mentally stable because now she's on psych meds or she's

1684
01:55:35,840 --> 01:55:40,760
seeing a psychiatrist or a psychologist or she goes to counseling.

1685
01:55:40,760 --> 01:55:42,160
Can we really rely on her?

1686
01:55:42,160 --> 01:55:43,740
Is she going to have a breakdown?

1687
01:55:43,740 --> 01:55:49,120
Even though I've never broke down at work before, but is she it's that level of second

1688
01:55:49,120 --> 01:55:57,080
guessing who I am and who I have become to now this stigma that's attached to me of,

1689
01:55:57,080 --> 01:56:00,000
well, she's getting help.

1690
01:56:00,000 --> 01:56:07,320
And I remember before I left the Air Force, that narrative was alive and well.

1691
01:56:07,320 --> 01:56:13,920
And I had told our he was a new I think our chief or a first sergeant.

1692
01:56:13,920 --> 01:56:19,920
I can't remember what his new leadership role was, but he was downplaying mental health

1693
01:56:19,920 --> 01:56:22,540
in our critical care unit.

1694
01:56:22,540 --> 01:56:24,960
And I literally went off on him.

1695
01:56:24,960 --> 01:56:36,000
I was like, you need you as an enlisted leader need to promote seeking help.

1696
01:56:36,000 --> 01:56:38,120
And I remember he hated me.

1697
01:56:38,120 --> 01:56:41,040
He absolutely hated me.

1698
01:56:41,040 --> 01:56:43,320
But it was because of what he was stating.

1699
01:56:43,320 --> 01:56:49,680
It just didn't resonate with me, especially going through this traumatic experience, not

1700
01:56:49,680 --> 01:56:55,760
only me, but all of my colleagues and having some guy that's never deployed once in his

1701
01:56:55,760 --> 01:57:03,320
life talk about how there's other methods of dealing with with depression or you're

1702
01:57:03,320 --> 01:57:08,480
really not depressed or you really don't need the help, you're fine, you know, was just

1703
01:57:08,480 --> 01:57:09,480
ludicrous.

1704
01:57:09,480 --> 01:57:13,920
It was just crazy.

1705
01:57:13,920 --> 01:57:16,680
You know, and I'm one that will speak my mind.

1706
01:57:16,680 --> 01:57:17,680
And that's exactly what I did.

1707
01:57:17,680 --> 01:57:21,840
And I said, you know, what you're saying is bullshit.

1708
01:57:21,840 --> 01:57:25,720
It is absolute bullshit.

1709
01:57:25,720 --> 01:57:29,480
So yeah, that's what I believe in.

1710
01:57:29,480 --> 01:57:34,680
And I would advocate for that even after I left, I found out that people that I deployed

1711
01:57:34,680 --> 01:57:40,900
with now, most of them, I shouldn't say most, a couple of them, and divorcing their spouses,

1712
01:57:40,900 --> 01:57:45,840
they just went down this whole black hole, you know, didn't get the help.

1713
01:57:45,840 --> 01:57:51,880
Another one officer, you know, amazing nurse got a DUI.

1714
01:57:51,880 --> 01:57:55,960
And you just start seeing and we start finding out that people are killing themselves committing

1715
01:57:55,960 --> 01:58:00,720
suicide.

1716
01:58:00,720 --> 01:58:04,440
I remember reaching out to some women, I said, you go get help, go talk to somebody.

1717
01:58:04,440 --> 01:58:05,440
Oh, no, no, no, I can't.

1718
01:58:05,440 --> 01:58:06,440
I'm like, fuck that.

1719
01:58:06,440 --> 01:58:07,560
Yes, you can.

1720
01:58:07,560 --> 01:58:09,080
I went and got help.

1721
01:58:09,080 --> 01:58:10,080
I'm on meds.

1722
01:58:10,080 --> 01:58:11,080
Oh, you are?

1723
01:58:11,080 --> 01:58:16,560
And that's all it takes is one person to say, I see a psychiatrist, I take two different

1724
01:58:16,560 --> 01:58:22,040
kinds of medication to help with my PTSD, anxiety and depression.

1725
01:58:22,040 --> 01:58:28,080
And coming from a person that an outsider may think, God, she has her shit together.

1726
01:58:28,080 --> 01:58:32,560
She's articulate, she shows up, she does what she needs to do.

1727
01:58:32,560 --> 01:58:34,440
And then she goes above and beyond.

1728
01:58:34,440 --> 01:58:35,860
She has a perfect life.

1729
01:58:35,860 --> 01:58:37,920
The fuck I do.

1730
01:58:37,920 --> 01:58:41,840
I take meds, I see a counselor, I see a psychiatrist.

1731
01:58:41,840 --> 01:58:46,960
There are all these other things that have to help me to be a better person for today.

1732
01:58:46,960 --> 01:58:47,960
I will be better tomorrow.

1733
01:58:47,960 --> 01:58:50,880
I'll be better the next day.

1734
01:58:50,880 --> 01:58:52,720
And that's where that conversation comes, right?

1735
01:58:52,720 --> 01:59:00,240
And so once I left Tuba City, I even further advocated when I ended up getting selected.

1736
01:59:00,240 --> 01:59:05,440
I was hand selected to be the United States Surgeon General's executive officer.

1737
01:59:05,440 --> 01:59:13,520
So I was plucked out of Tuba City, Arizona, and then moved to DC to then take this role

1738
01:59:13,520 --> 01:59:14,520
on.

1739
01:59:14,520 --> 01:59:19,120
And I have to say, when I went through, Public Health Service has their own boot camp.

1740
01:59:19,120 --> 01:59:26,040
It's very, very different than DODs and Air Force, Army, Navy, Marines, all of that.

1741
01:59:26,040 --> 01:59:31,880
But for the first time in my life, I wasn't judged on how well I took a test.

1742
01:59:31,880 --> 01:59:42,080
I was judged on my ability to lead people, to positively affect people.

1743
01:59:42,080 --> 01:59:50,360
And the people that were running our basic training or officer training school had a

1744
01:59:50,360 --> 01:59:53,320
real appreciation and value for that, right?

1745
01:59:53,320 --> 01:59:57,400
And that's where I found out that I ended up getting nominated to take on this role.

1746
01:59:57,400 --> 02:00:00,080
Not everybody gets selected for this role.

1747
02:00:00,080 --> 02:00:06,280
And a very, very good colleague, last name Trombley, I was calling him, first name is

1748
02:00:06,280 --> 02:00:08,160
Dean, Dean Trombley.

1749
02:00:08,160 --> 02:00:11,760
He's a captain now in the Public Health Service.

1750
02:00:11,760 --> 02:00:17,920
He and I just connected because he was prior service as well.

1751
02:00:17,920 --> 02:00:25,040
And for the first time in my life, I felt valued from these experiences and how damaged

1752
02:00:25,040 --> 02:00:26,400
I was.

1753
02:00:26,400 --> 02:00:29,800
And he understood that.

1754
02:00:29,800 --> 02:00:36,160
And I'm like, I really am in the right service, right?

1755
02:00:36,160 --> 02:00:39,040
There's not all this test taking because I suck at taking tests.

1756
02:00:39,040 --> 02:00:40,040
I'm horrible.

1757
02:00:40,040 --> 02:00:45,560
And it's all about the mechanics that you do, right?

1758
02:00:45,560 --> 02:00:47,120
And I was really good hands on.

1759
02:00:47,120 --> 02:00:53,880
That's just my, I'm good at hands on stuff, not book smart.

1760
02:00:53,880 --> 02:00:56,360
And so I ended up stepping in this role for the United States Surgeon General.

1761
02:00:56,360 --> 02:00:59,040
And then I stayed there for eight years.

1762
02:00:59,040 --> 02:01:06,160
I ended up supporting three presently appointed and Senate confirmed surgeons general, supported

1763
02:01:06,160 --> 02:01:07,600
two acting SGs.

1764
02:01:07,600 --> 02:01:14,440
And between those three did some amazing, amazing things.

1765
02:01:14,440 --> 02:01:24,000
But man, I was mentally suffering severely and was at Walter Reed and ended up, I think

1766
02:01:24,000 --> 02:01:29,200
was at the, at the end of my rope and I just wanted to die.

1767
02:01:29,200 --> 02:01:37,100
And I ended up getting hooked up with this doctor, Dr. Sharon Paul.

1768
02:01:37,100 --> 02:01:49,080
She changed my life and a lot of work, but she, as my psychologist and then a psychiatrist

1769
02:01:49,080 --> 02:01:54,360
that managed my meds brought me out of a really, really dark place.

1770
02:01:54,360 --> 02:01:57,120
But it took years, right?

1771
02:01:57,120 --> 02:02:02,560
And I'm a strong advocate of mental health support.

1772
02:02:02,560 --> 02:02:05,360
People most people don't like to take medication.

1773
02:02:05,360 --> 02:02:07,520
It's like, it's not forever.

1774
02:02:07,520 --> 02:02:11,760
It's probably just for a short time to get you from point A to point B and it's okay.

1775
02:02:11,760 --> 02:02:12,980
No one's going to look at you different.

1776
02:02:12,980 --> 02:02:14,300
No one's going to care.

1777
02:02:14,300 --> 02:02:20,520
If this works for you and your genetic makeup and your brain chemistry, you have to give

1778
02:02:20,520 --> 02:02:27,100
yourself a chance and get the help and support you need because you matter, right?

1779
02:02:27,100 --> 02:02:32,100
You matter to someone and you need to be here for a reason.

1780
02:02:32,100 --> 02:02:36,340
You still have a life purpose to carry out.

1781
02:02:36,340 --> 02:02:37,340
And that's what I believe.

1782
02:02:37,340 --> 02:02:40,300
I believe that everybody has a purpose in their life, whether they know it or not.

1783
02:02:40,300 --> 02:02:45,340
And once you meet that purpose, then it's your time, your time to go.

1784
02:02:45,340 --> 02:02:48,480
But the mental health piece is huge.

1785
02:02:48,480 --> 02:02:49,480
Absolutely.

1786
02:02:49,480 --> 02:02:52,560
Well, thank you for sharing that journey.

1787
02:02:52,560 --> 02:02:59,240
I think this is the, the, the lesser loan, excuse me, the lesser discussed element of

1788
02:02:59,240 --> 02:03:05,340
the mental health conversation is the toolbox is so much larger than people realize.

1789
02:03:05,340 --> 02:03:10,500
And I think this, what we need to see is the hope in the post-traumatic conversation as

1790
02:03:10,500 --> 02:03:11,500
well.

1791
02:03:11,500 --> 02:03:14,460
That post-traumatic growth, I think is so important because all of these struggles that

1792
02:03:14,460 --> 02:03:18,020
we talked about, whether it was as a little girl in your family home or whether it was

1793
02:03:18,020 --> 02:03:24,860
a military law enforcement officer or a nurse in Afghanistan is those can absolutely just

1794
02:03:24,860 --> 02:03:30,020
fracture everything inside or as the, you know, the Japanese analogy where they use

1795
02:03:30,020 --> 02:03:34,060
the gold glue to fix the vase, it becomes a strength.

1796
02:03:34,060 --> 02:03:36,560
And I truly believe that that's actually the case.

1797
02:03:36,560 --> 02:03:42,440
But the middle, the void in between is firstly identifying it before you get to crisis.

1798
02:03:42,440 --> 02:03:47,900
And I think that the feeling of burdensome is an element that we don't discuss enough.

1799
02:03:47,900 --> 02:03:49,660
This point, the people's brains are broken.

1800
02:03:49,660 --> 02:03:51,080
And I say that with empathy.

1801
02:03:51,080 --> 02:03:56,460
It's physiologically broken and your reality is distorted where so many of these people

1802
02:03:56,460 --> 02:04:00,740
have had on the show believe that they were the reason for their family's pain.

1803
02:04:00,740 --> 02:04:04,440
You know, we don't hear that in the mental health conversations and on the posters.

1804
02:04:04,440 --> 02:04:06,100
But then the other thing is the toolbox.

1805
02:04:06,100 --> 02:04:12,040
And I agree completely that psych meds can absolutely be a bridge from A to B. The problem

1806
02:04:12,040 --> 02:04:16,900
is obviously in America, you know, there's not that conversation of, okay, what's the

1807
02:04:16,900 --> 02:04:17,900
next plan?

1808
02:04:17,900 --> 02:04:19,940
What's the exit strategy for my medication?

1809
02:04:19,940 --> 02:04:21,540
It's just that you're on it forever.

1810
02:04:21,540 --> 02:04:25,420
But then when you factor in, you know, psychedelics and some of these other things that are being

1811
02:04:25,420 --> 02:04:29,300
incredibly effective as well, you know, there's so much hope.

1812
02:04:29,300 --> 02:04:34,300
But then you obviously have the FDA working against the very things that are working for

1813
02:04:34,300 --> 02:04:35,660
our service members.

1814
02:04:35,660 --> 02:04:40,820
You know, there's a real stumbling block there, the same FDA that approved Oxycontin that

1815
02:04:40,820 --> 02:04:42,940
caused the opioid crisis.

1816
02:04:42,940 --> 02:04:49,480
But putting, you know, making someone realize that this toolbox is so vast and you have

1817
02:04:49,480 --> 02:04:54,480
talk therapy and EMDR and canine therapy and equine therapy and fishing and surfing and

1818
02:04:54,480 --> 02:04:56,340
all the things.

1819
02:04:56,340 --> 02:04:59,040
And that the other side, you're going to be a beacon of light.

1820
02:04:59,040 --> 02:05:01,780
You're going to have this resilience where now you have a purpose.

1821
02:05:01,780 --> 02:05:05,660
You use your story to help other people, just like you have in the book.

1822
02:05:05,660 --> 02:05:10,020
I think those together really elevates this entire conversation.

1823
02:05:10,020 --> 02:05:13,820
But if it's just I'm going to be on pills the rest of my life and I've got my dog and

1824
02:05:13,820 --> 02:05:19,660
I have to live with my PTSD, then that's not going to inspire others to have the courage

1825
02:05:19,660 --> 02:05:21,180
to reach out and ask for help.

1826
02:05:21,180 --> 02:05:25,060
But I think, you know, your story now and where you are now is exactly what we need

1827
02:05:25,060 --> 02:05:26,060
to hear.

1828
02:05:26,060 --> 02:05:27,060
Thank you.

1829
02:05:27,060 --> 02:05:28,060
I appreciate it.

1830
02:05:28,060 --> 02:05:29,940
And I love your story as well.

1831
02:05:29,940 --> 02:05:36,780
The amount of people that your voice has the outreach is phenomenal.

1832
02:05:36,780 --> 02:05:43,380
And again, it goes back to the cross-secting of the various first responders, military

1833
02:05:43,380 --> 02:05:46,340
officers.

1834
02:05:46,340 --> 02:05:54,580
It's beautiful to see that, to see that a firefighter, first responder, paramedic, medic,

1835
02:05:54,580 --> 02:06:01,540
has very same similarities of experiences with trauma, right?

1836
02:06:01,540 --> 02:06:06,540
And to be able to sit down together and have a conversation because both of our narratives

1837
02:06:06,540 --> 02:06:17,380
and your other guests that you've had on your show, it all comes down, it is so similar

1838
02:06:17,380 --> 02:06:21,140
to where we should convene in larger groups, right?

1839
02:06:21,140 --> 02:06:27,220
And have these conversations and even further support that mental health piece because there

1840
02:06:27,220 --> 02:06:30,460
still is that stigma in firefighting.

1841
02:06:30,460 --> 02:06:38,480
You have the big strong guys that are, you know, that may be afraid.

1842
02:06:38,480 --> 02:06:42,460
And it just takes that one person to step up and say, okay, I'm not going to be afraid.

1843
02:06:42,460 --> 02:06:47,140
I'm not going to be afraid of any kind of attachment that this is going to give me.

1844
02:06:47,140 --> 02:06:50,820
But I'm doing this because I care about my brothers and sisters, of other firemen and

1845
02:06:50,820 --> 02:06:51,820
women.

1846
02:06:51,820 --> 02:06:52,820
Absolutely.

1847
02:06:52,820 --> 02:06:58,780
I think another thing that I've started to realize is that the biggest naysayers are

1848
02:06:58,780 --> 02:07:03,060
people who just didn't have the courage to deal with their own mental health.

1849
02:07:03,060 --> 02:07:07,100
And arguably, if you look at extremes, and I've said this on the program before, if you

1850
02:07:07,100 --> 02:07:11,180
look at the head of Purdue Pharma, if you look at the head of, you know, the Stanley

1851
02:07:11,180 --> 02:07:15,780
Mori, I'm getting the name wrong, but the cigarette companies, you know, the fast food,

1852
02:07:15,780 --> 02:07:21,900
the big sugar that are killing millions of Americans, if they can sleep at night, then

1853
02:07:21,900 --> 02:07:24,960
I would argue that there's a mental health issue going there too, you know?

1854
02:07:24,960 --> 02:07:29,340
So a lot of the resistance that we meet, I think, are from people who happen to find

1855
02:07:29,340 --> 02:07:34,020
themselves in positions that are probably still unfulfilling despite the zeros on their

1856
02:07:34,020 --> 02:07:35,940
paycheck.

1857
02:07:35,940 --> 02:07:39,780
And if we can actually have that conversation and the leadership and mental health, maybe,

1858
02:07:39,780 --> 02:07:43,020
you know, a lot of that stigma will go away finally.

1859
02:07:43,020 --> 02:07:46,580
Yeah, I absolutely agree with that.

1860
02:07:46,580 --> 02:07:48,540
Well, let's talk about the book then.

1861
02:07:48,540 --> 02:07:53,500
So you just touched for a moment about journaling early on in this conversation.

1862
02:07:53,500 --> 02:07:55,700
Your book is phenomenal.

1863
02:07:55,700 --> 02:07:57,600
Service honor and sacrifice.

1864
02:07:57,600 --> 02:08:01,620
So what's beautiful is obviously you kind of set the scene and then, you know, we read

1865
02:08:01,620 --> 02:08:05,860
your journal kind of as we progress through those nine months and then your transition

1866
02:08:05,860 --> 02:08:06,860
out.

1867
02:08:06,860 --> 02:08:08,620
So what made you write the book?

1868
02:08:08,620 --> 02:08:11,620
And then we'll get to where people can find it at the end.

1869
02:08:11,620 --> 02:08:21,660
Yeah, the biggest thing was I wanted to write these experiences while they were fresh in

1870
02:08:21,660 --> 02:08:28,700
my mind as a way of coping with what my eyes had seen and then to help my brain kind of

1871
02:08:28,700 --> 02:08:32,540
process what I had seen.

1872
02:08:32,540 --> 02:08:37,620
And then I thought, you know, I would love to share this with my husband, Clinton, because

1873
02:08:37,620 --> 02:08:42,200
I need him to understand what this environment is like every day.

1874
02:08:42,200 --> 02:08:43,300
What is it that I'm seeing?

1875
02:08:43,300 --> 02:08:44,780
What am I doing?

1876
02:08:44,780 --> 02:08:48,380
The feelings, the thoughts.

1877
02:08:48,380 --> 02:08:57,540
And really kind of wanting out who I was because I knew at the end of this journey, I had this

1878
02:08:57,540 --> 02:09:03,180
weird feeling that more than likely I'm going to find myself lost somewhere.

1879
02:09:03,180 --> 02:09:10,700
And then to be able to go back and read from day one is almost like a breadcrumb to find

1880
02:09:10,700 --> 02:09:12,740
myself again.

1881
02:09:12,740 --> 02:09:19,820
And so as I started journaling and emailing Clinton my journals, he then decided to share

1882
02:09:19,820 --> 02:09:27,120
them with my mom and my brother and his mom and his dad and his stepmom.

1883
02:09:27,120 --> 02:09:35,100
And then that community that would read the journals then started growing and growing

1884
02:09:35,100 --> 02:09:41,220
and growing and growing far beyond what I had ever thought anybody would want to read

1885
02:09:41,220 --> 02:09:43,580
or really care about.

1886
02:09:43,580 --> 02:09:47,540
A lot of the journals I would add pictures so that it even further solidified the story

1887
02:09:47,540 --> 02:09:51,140
of, okay, this is what I'm reading and holy shit, this is what happens.

1888
02:09:51,140 --> 02:09:56,980
I can see really with my own eyes of what happened here.

1889
02:09:56,980 --> 02:10:01,560
And so that was just a cathartic way of ending my day.

1890
02:10:01,560 --> 02:10:03,660
And some days I just couldn't, right?

1891
02:10:03,660 --> 02:10:13,580
I was too overwhelmed with emotion and thought that I just couldn't put pen to paper.

1892
02:10:13,580 --> 02:10:18,980
But before I knew it, my mom would reach out and said, okay, well, everybody, all the family

1893
02:10:18,980 --> 02:10:25,140
relatives and friends in California are waiting for the next story when you're putting it

1894
02:10:25,140 --> 02:10:26,140
out.

1895
02:10:26,140 --> 02:10:27,140
I just chuckled.

1896
02:10:27,140 --> 02:10:28,140
I'm like, these aren't stories.

1897
02:10:28,140 --> 02:10:29,500
They're real life.

1898
02:10:29,500 --> 02:10:36,740
And so my mom said everybody's calling them the novellas, kind of like soap operas for

1899
02:10:36,740 --> 02:10:39,820
the Mexican side.

1900
02:10:39,820 --> 02:10:48,260
And then I felt this sense of this is a burden that I know I'm going to carry and I want

1901
02:10:48,260 --> 02:10:49,260
to share it.

1902
02:10:49,260 --> 02:10:50,260
Right?

1903
02:10:50,260 --> 02:10:52,780
It can't be mine solely alone.

1904
02:10:52,780 --> 02:10:59,060
And when I finally got back, I had thought about writing a book 15 years ago, but I just

1905
02:10:59,060 --> 02:11:00,060
wasn't there yet.

1906
02:11:00,060 --> 02:11:04,300
I didn't have the mental capacity to do that.

1907
02:11:04,300 --> 02:11:08,260
And every year since then, tell me I got to write this book.

1908
02:11:08,260 --> 02:11:10,220
I want to put this in a book format.

1909
02:11:10,220 --> 02:11:11,220
I want to do this.

1910
02:11:11,220 --> 02:11:12,820
I want to do this.

1911
02:11:12,820 --> 02:11:19,860
And finally, a year and a half ago, I just said, okay, I'm doing it.

1912
02:11:19,860 --> 02:11:26,060
I worked with a good friend of mine and I said, I just need, it is going to be really

1913
02:11:26,060 --> 02:11:29,500
emotionally hard for me, but I need to do this.

1914
02:11:29,500 --> 02:11:31,140
I can't wait anymore.

1915
02:11:31,140 --> 02:11:33,140
I have to do this.

1916
02:11:33,140 --> 02:11:39,800
And so within nine months of that, I had deadlines for myself.

1917
02:11:39,800 --> 02:11:45,420
In May of this year, I went to a hotel here in Arizona, locked myself in a room, my hotel

1918
02:11:45,420 --> 02:11:52,220
room for almost a week and just polished it off and finished it.

1919
02:11:52,220 --> 02:11:58,780
And sent it to the guy that I was working with and the publisher and they pushed it

1920
02:11:58,780 --> 02:12:04,440
out and it was published June 1st, I believe.

1921
02:12:04,440 --> 02:12:10,420
And I think at this point, from all of the help and the support and the resources that

1922
02:12:10,420 --> 02:12:20,060
I had used along the way with my PTSD and anxiety, what I wasn't expecting is this

1923
02:12:20,060 --> 02:12:25,140
sense of solace after I was done with it.

1924
02:12:25,140 --> 02:12:36,620
The night that I came home after sending everything to the publisher, I remember feeling so free

1925
02:12:36,620 --> 02:12:48,980
and the one thing that was incredible is all of the space that this whole journey took

1926
02:12:48,980 --> 02:12:50,460
was now gone.

1927
02:12:50,460 --> 02:12:52,860
I had so much space in my head.

1928
02:12:52,860 --> 02:12:58,140
It's hard to explain unless you've been through it yourself to where I had all of this fog

1929
02:12:58,140 --> 02:13:04,460
and a ton of just shit in my brain and it just like there was no vacancy at all for

1930
02:13:04,460 --> 02:13:05,660
anything.

1931
02:13:05,660 --> 02:13:13,100
And once this was put together on paper, I felt really good about it.

1932
02:13:13,100 --> 02:13:17,820
It was no longer my burden to carry.

1933
02:13:17,820 --> 02:13:22,500
And I finally, truly, for the first time in 15 years, felt this overwhelming sense of

1934
02:13:22,500 --> 02:13:25,260
peace.

1935
02:13:25,260 --> 02:13:29,300
And I think to myself, God, I've really held onto this way too long.

1936
02:13:29,300 --> 02:13:32,060
I should have done this sooner, but I couldn't have done it sooner.

1937
02:13:32,060 --> 02:13:33,060
It would be too much.

1938
02:13:33,060 --> 02:13:39,300
It would have been too much for me, too great of a challenge or too emotionally, I think,

1939
02:13:39,300 --> 02:13:42,900
mentally and emotionally would have been, I wouldn't be, I wasn't ready.

1940
02:13:42,900 --> 02:13:43,900
That's what I'm trying to say.

1941
02:13:43,900 --> 02:13:45,140
I wasn't ready then.

1942
02:13:45,140 --> 02:13:51,020
And now I was finally ready to share these stories and share the truths and the rawness

1943
02:13:51,020 --> 02:13:53,020
of what truly happened.

1944
02:13:53,020 --> 02:13:55,100
And it goes back to that.

1945
02:13:55,100 --> 02:13:56,100
You look at the movies, right?

1946
02:13:56,100 --> 02:14:01,340
You go to a movie, you see a war movie and you see the guys that are in battle.

1947
02:14:01,340 --> 02:14:02,340
They get blown up.

1948
02:14:02,340 --> 02:14:08,660
The next movie scene cuts to they're in the hospital or they're getting out of the hospital

1949
02:14:08,660 --> 02:14:13,580
and they're sitting in front of a VA healthcare center, right?

1950
02:14:13,580 --> 02:14:18,220
When you look, there's a whole section missing of that storyline.

1951
02:14:18,220 --> 02:14:21,060
And every story in the movies is like this.

1952
02:14:21,060 --> 02:14:26,620
There's that one section that is not told.

1953
02:14:26,620 --> 02:14:32,740
And this book tells that section about who are these people that are in this section

1954
02:14:32,740 --> 02:14:37,480
that are never talked about, who are trying to save that person that was just blown up

1955
02:14:37,480 --> 02:14:42,060
in the field, what that narrative looks like in the middle.

1956
02:14:42,060 --> 02:14:46,980
What is happening during that moment of the most important moment of that person's life

1957
02:14:46,980 --> 02:14:53,780
to then when they go home and they're sitting in front of a VA clinic or they're somewhere

1958
02:14:53,780 --> 02:14:54,780
else, right?

1959
02:14:54,780 --> 02:15:00,840
Out of the military and they're looking for a job as the movie script dictates.

1960
02:15:00,840 --> 02:15:07,260
But it was to really unzip that middle piece that tends to get overlooked where those first

1961
02:15:07,260 --> 02:15:08,260
responders are.

1962
02:15:08,260 --> 02:15:09,980
It's the same thing with that, right?

1963
02:15:09,980 --> 02:15:16,780
Firemen, firemen, firefighters, EMTs.

1964
02:15:16,780 --> 02:15:23,180
And to then be able to share that with the world, whether they liked it or not.

1965
02:15:23,180 --> 02:15:24,660
It's the raw truth.

1966
02:15:24,660 --> 02:15:28,260
It's looking at pictures that might be disturbing to people.

1967
02:15:28,260 --> 02:15:35,500
It's talking about being home as a child and your dad and your seven brothers and sisters

1968
02:15:35,500 --> 02:15:42,220
and your house gets hit with a white phosphorus bomb and you're now totally incinerated with

1969
02:15:42,220 --> 02:15:49,100
white phosphorus and you're burnt close to 50% of your body.

1970
02:15:49,100 --> 02:15:57,140
And the survivability of that is likely zero, but yet you survive, right?

1971
02:15:57,140 --> 02:16:01,060
And how war just changes everything.

1972
02:16:01,060 --> 02:16:07,860
People's lives and your family's lives, extended family's lives, your friends' lives.

1973
02:16:07,860 --> 02:16:17,180
But that's really kind of where I felt this book needed to be is to look at the medics

1974
02:16:17,180 --> 02:16:22,820
of the job that they do every day and what they've done overseas in the war.

1975
02:16:22,820 --> 02:16:30,220
People that I talk to now had no idea that we were charged with taking care of a Taliban

1976
02:16:30,220 --> 02:16:32,700
and they just thought that was just insane.

1977
02:16:32,700 --> 02:16:35,740
You don't think about that when someone tells you, okay, well, you're going to war to be

1978
02:16:35,740 --> 02:16:37,060
a nurse.

1979
02:16:37,060 --> 02:16:42,660
The first thought of your mind is not taking care of a Taliban member if they were not

1980
02:16:42,660 --> 02:16:48,060
secured to the bed and or have a weapon, they would kill you, right?

1981
02:16:48,060 --> 02:16:52,940
And so it was mind boggling for a lot of folks and in the amount of children that we took

1982
02:16:52,940 --> 02:16:59,620
care of, the injuries, the mechanism of injuries for the small kids and what that looked like.

1983
02:16:59,620 --> 02:17:09,980
So just people I think like to be in the safe space of their home, maybe want to know about

1984
02:17:09,980 --> 02:17:14,540
it, but really don't want to know about it because there's a level of that ignorance

1985
02:17:14,540 --> 02:17:19,340
is bliss that you can continue to live your life a certain way and not really have to

1986
02:17:19,340 --> 02:17:21,900
care about it because you don't know about it.

1987
02:17:21,900 --> 02:17:28,860
And it goes right back, James, to the mental health, suicide awareness, right?

1988
02:17:28,860 --> 02:17:32,900
All of this takes a toll on a first responder.

1989
02:17:32,900 --> 02:17:36,340
It does.

1990
02:17:36,340 --> 02:17:40,980
When I was reading it, I was reminded of a scene in the Band of Brothers and funny enough,

1991
02:17:40,980 --> 02:17:44,500
I had the actor on the show, Shane Taylor, but I don't know if you've ever seen that

1992
02:17:44,500 --> 02:17:49,340
series, but there's the one that's in Bastogne and there's one moment there in Belgium where

1993
02:17:49,340 --> 02:17:55,220
he's able to go to this neighboring town and he walks into a church that is a field hospital

1994
02:17:55,220 --> 02:18:00,900
and he has this amazing interaction with this nurse and that's what I felt as a civilian

1995
02:18:00,900 --> 02:18:06,340
paramedic firefighter in America reading through your eyes in war.

1996
02:18:06,340 --> 02:18:07,340
It was the same.

1997
02:18:07,340 --> 02:18:10,620
And like I said, our books, there's a huge parallel.

1998
02:18:10,620 --> 02:18:13,940
I'm just finishing my second one now and again, I can totally relate to that weight because

1999
02:18:13,940 --> 02:18:14,940
I'm almost done.

2000
02:18:14,940 --> 02:18:19,140
I just got to get my cover art sent back and then I can use that.

2001
02:18:19,140 --> 02:18:25,060
But yeah, I mean, this is the thing is in my profession, we have Chicago fire and I've

2002
02:18:25,060 --> 02:18:30,100
had the guy behind that, the real firefighter who he tries to put these raw stories out,

2003
02:18:30,100 --> 02:18:35,300
but Hollywood then polishes them up and everyone looks like a model and every rescue is successful.

2004
02:18:35,300 --> 02:18:38,700
So there isn't a thing out there to actually show what we do.

2005
02:18:38,700 --> 02:18:43,580
And I hope that my second book will become a show, a TV show for that very reason.

2006
02:18:43,580 --> 02:18:49,180
But this is what we need to see because these not only show the immense sacrifice of all

2007
02:18:49,180 --> 02:18:54,740
our medical people in the military, obviously the casualties of war from the allied nations,

2008
02:18:54,740 --> 02:18:57,780
but then the humanity even amongst the Taliban.

2009
02:18:57,780 --> 02:19:03,420
I mean, the poverty and the threats towards families and even the nuances there.

2010
02:19:03,420 --> 02:19:07,060
But it's such a powerful look inside that.

2011
02:19:07,060 --> 02:19:11,820
And that's kind of what I was thinking is that combat medic and that nurse at that moment

2012
02:19:11,820 --> 02:19:15,060
kind of realizing that the same exact person.

2013
02:19:15,060 --> 02:19:16,060
Yep.

2014
02:19:16,060 --> 02:19:18,340
I know exactly what scene you're talking about.

2015
02:19:18,340 --> 02:19:21,220
And I loved Band of Brothers.

2016
02:19:21,220 --> 02:19:22,220
Great series.

2017
02:19:22,220 --> 02:19:23,220
Absolutely.

2018
02:19:23,220 --> 02:19:28,140
Well, I want to finish on one thing before we go to where you can find the book and you.

2019
02:19:28,140 --> 02:19:30,940
You mentioned Carlo Robinson being your first victim.

2020
02:19:30,940 --> 02:19:33,860
I know there's a kind of full circle moment with his mother.

2021
02:19:33,860 --> 02:19:38,060
So let's finish with that.

2022
02:19:38,060 --> 02:19:45,660
Part of those dreams and nightmares that I had had coming back home and Carlo Robinson,

2023
02:19:45,660 --> 02:19:52,300
I would think about him often throughout the rest of my time in Afghanistan.

2024
02:19:52,300 --> 02:20:00,620
And he's kind of speckled throughout a few of the stories that are in the book.

2025
02:20:00,620 --> 02:20:06,500
And when I came home, I was dreaming about him all the time.

2026
02:20:06,500 --> 02:20:10,340
And I just couldn't figure it out why.

2027
02:20:10,340 --> 02:20:14,260
And it would be certain moments with him.

2028
02:20:14,260 --> 02:20:19,300
And I remember every time I would have that dream, I would wake up immediately and I would

2029
02:20:19,300 --> 02:20:24,980
tell Clinton, I dreamt about Carlo again and we would sit and talk about it.

2030
02:20:24,980 --> 02:20:32,460
And one night and morning that I woke up, I sat up in bed and I just said, I need to

2031
02:20:32,460 --> 02:20:33,700
find his family.

2032
02:20:33,700 --> 02:20:34,900
That's what I think this is about.

2033
02:20:34,900 --> 02:20:39,700
I think I need to find his kids.

2034
02:20:39,700 --> 02:20:42,740
And Clinton, he's great.

2035
02:20:42,740 --> 02:20:47,140
He's just like, whatever you got to do, you let me know how I can help.

2036
02:20:47,140 --> 02:20:48,580
What do we need to do?

2037
02:20:48,580 --> 02:20:49,580
I don't know.

2038
02:20:49,580 --> 02:20:51,420
I don't even know where to start, but I'll figure it out.

2039
02:20:51,420 --> 02:21:02,120
And so it took me about a month to finally find someone that knew his contact.

2040
02:21:02,120 --> 02:21:07,980
And I was sworn to secrecy that I would never say who gave me the contact.

2041
02:21:07,980 --> 02:21:17,660
And the person was just a dear to allow me that opportunity to call in.

2042
02:21:17,660 --> 02:21:23,500
Tried one number, didn't work, tried the next number.

2043
02:21:23,500 --> 02:21:28,420
And I was at work on the res at Tuba City Medical Hospital.

2044
02:21:28,420 --> 02:21:35,880
And I was in my office, made the call, this sweet, gentle, meek voice answers.

2045
02:21:35,880 --> 02:21:40,180
And she says, Jumpin' Jacks, this is Jenny.

2046
02:21:40,180 --> 02:21:43,140
And I was frozen.

2047
02:21:43,140 --> 02:21:44,260
I didn't know what to say.

2048
02:21:44,260 --> 02:21:47,100
And that's really not like me.

2049
02:21:47,100 --> 02:21:50,700
And I finally get enough courage and my words together.

2050
02:21:50,700 --> 02:21:53,180
And I say, I'm Captain Christine Collins.

2051
02:21:53,180 --> 02:21:58,140
I was an Air Force trauma nurse in Afghanistan.

2052
02:21:58,140 --> 02:22:04,580
I'm trying to reach Carla Robinson's family to that effect.

2053
02:22:04,580 --> 02:22:07,220
And all of a sudden, she just started crying.

2054
02:22:07,220 --> 02:22:10,940
So I realized I have the right person.

2055
02:22:10,940 --> 02:22:13,940
Just don't know who Jenny is, but I have the right person.

2056
02:22:13,940 --> 02:22:16,620
And she knows definitely Carla.

2057
02:22:16,620 --> 02:22:22,420
And from that point, as she cries, I just said, I'm so sorry.

2058
02:22:22,420 --> 02:22:26,100
I was one of the nurses that held Carla's hand.

2059
02:22:26,100 --> 02:22:36,300
And I just feel this need that I need to call his family and let him know that he did not

2060
02:22:36,300 --> 02:22:37,300
die alone.

2061
02:22:37,300 --> 02:22:41,180
He was surrounded by people that cared about him and loved him.

2062
02:22:41,180 --> 02:22:42,640
And I said, I'm so sorry.

2063
02:22:42,640 --> 02:22:44,420
And she just cried even harder.

2064
02:22:44,420 --> 02:22:48,500
I said, I'm so sorry, who are you to Carlo?

2065
02:22:48,500 --> 02:22:50,780
And that's when she had stated, I'm his mother.

2066
02:22:50,780 --> 02:22:51,860
I'm his mom.

2067
02:22:51,860 --> 02:23:10,500
And then the gut-wrenching cries and screams that she made, those will always be with me.

2068
02:23:10,500 --> 02:23:14,780
And she went on to say, my only son is gone.

2069
02:23:14,780 --> 02:23:16,620
He's dead.

2070
02:23:16,620 --> 02:23:22,900
And I just told her, I said, I just am compelled to reach out.

2071
02:23:22,900 --> 02:23:25,940
I'm so sorry of the loss of your son.

2072
02:23:25,940 --> 02:23:33,120
And I started explaining to her who was around him and that we loved him, that we loved him

2073
02:23:33,120 --> 02:23:36,820
enough for her because we knew she couldn't be there.

2074
02:23:36,820 --> 02:23:45,860
And I ended up finding out that this whole relief and sadness for her was when she said

2075
02:23:45,860 --> 02:23:54,940
my son, my son is dead, is when, and this is now later on, because I went to go, Ladies

2076
02:23:54,940 --> 02:24:00,020
Home Journal did a story on us and they flew me out to meet her for the first time.

2077
02:24:00,020 --> 02:24:06,540
And this is when I realized that she had always been under the assumption that Carla was alive.

2078
02:24:06,540 --> 02:24:11,060
And that he was just captured and lost in Afghanistan.

2079
02:24:11,060 --> 02:24:17,580
And the reason why that was is because when Carla passed away and was sent back to the

2080
02:24:17,580 --> 02:24:23,620
United States, the plane that brought Carla's body brought another casket as well.

2081
02:24:23,620 --> 02:24:31,540
And so when they dropped, when they flew into the airport, there was a huge plane-side services

2082
02:24:31,540 --> 02:24:39,100
by the Army Guard, color guard, and there was a huge parade.

2083
02:24:39,100 --> 02:24:43,500
Like the streets were lined with people to bring him home.

2084
02:24:43,500 --> 02:24:47,740
And there was a caravan that took him from the plane-side services where the honors were

2085
02:24:47,740 --> 02:24:56,660
presented to him and the family and then took him to the local mortuary.

2086
02:24:56,660 --> 02:24:58,260
Mind you, it's Hope, Arkansas.

2087
02:24:58,260 --> 02:25:00,780
So Hope is a very small place.

2088
02:25:00,780 --> 02:25:11,140
So they get to the mortuary and the Army guy opens up the casket to do the whole checklist.

2089
02:25:11,140 --> 02:25:16,120
And the mortician there went to school with Carlo and she knew it wasn't him.

2090
02:25:16,120 --> 02:25:18,600
And she said, this is not Carlo.

2091
02:25:18,600 --> 02:25:20,780
You have the wrong body.

2092
02:25:20,780 --> 02:25:29,580
And needless to say, kind of under the cover of darkness, they take this body back, have

2093
02:25:29,580 --> 02:25:33,940
the plane turn around because it's already taken off with the other casket, come back,

2094
02:25:33,940 --> 02:25:36,060
exchange the caskets quietly.

2095
02:25:36,060 --> 02:25:39,820
No one sees, no one notices, and then takes the right casket back.

2096
02:25:39,820 --> 02:25:46,460
And then by that time, Jennifer was completely beside herself because she had just talked

2097
02:25:46,460 --> 02:25:48,800
to Carlo the day before.

2098
02:25:48,800 --> 02:25:52,620
So to her, she didn't understand how did he die?

2099
02:25:52,620 --> 02:25:53,620
I just talked to him.

2100
02:25:53,620 --> 02:25:54,620
There's no way.

2101
02:25:54,620 --> 02:26:00,420
They bring the wrong casket to her and she just doesn't want to believe that he is actually

2102
02:26:00,420 --> 02:26:01,860
in fact dead.

2103
02:26:01,860 --> 02:26:08,480
And so it wasn't until I called her and told her that I was there and then gave her, told

2104
02:26:08,480 --> 02:26:14,580
her about the tattoo on his forearm, talked to her about how big he was and tall and all

2105
02:26:14,580 --> 02:26:21,300
of these things that finally led her to believe that, my goodness, he has died.

2106
02:26:21,300 --> 02:26:29,340
And in that cry, she just said, God has answered my prayers.

2107
02:26:29,340 --> 02:26:34,220
And so had I not made that call, she would have continued to have been extremely restless

2108
02:26:34,220 --> 02:26:38,860
right and thinking that her son is still alive, which is tragic.

2109
02:26:38,860 --> 02:26:41,380
One could never move on from that.

2110
02:26:41,380 --> 02:26:48,260
And we've become amazing friends, right?

2111
02:26:48,260 --> 02:26:49,260
More like family.

2112
02:26:49,260 --> 02:26:51,820
He's part of my family, I'm part of their family.

2113
02:26:51,820 --> 02:26:54,780
I fly out to see her.

2114
02:26:54,780 --> 02:26:59,940
I stay with her when I go and visit.

2115
02:26:59,940 --> 02:27:07,460
But once I made that call, James, to her and confirmed that in fact he did pass away, it's

2116
02:27:07,460 --> 02:27:08,700
been 15 years.

2117
02:27:08,700 --> 02:27:14,740
I have not had one dream about Carlo since.

2118
02:27:14,740 --> 02:27:21,540
And the crazy thing is that we never said two words to each other, right?

2119
02:27:21,540 --> 02:27:26,740
Because when he came to us, he was so far gone.

2120
02:27:26,740 --> 02:27:30,820
He went through surgery, had to have one of his kidneys removed because it was blown inside

2121
02:27:30,820 --> 02:27:32,260
out.

2122
02:27:32,260 --> 02:27:36,180
And when he came to me, he was intubated, right?

2123
02:27:36,180 --> 02:27:42,220
So there was never one point that I looked at him in his eyes and he looked at me and

2124
02:27:42,220 --> 02:27:45,700
we nodded or said a code word.

2125
02:27:45,700 --> 02:27:46,980
It was none of that.

2126
02:27:46,980 --> 02:27:55,900
It was just this connection with his soul and my soul that then became this whole other

2127
02:27:55,900 --> 02:28:00,740
journey with his family.

2128
02:28:00,740 --> 02:28:08,060
So yeah, they're a very, very special part of my life and they've been in my life ever

2129
02:28:08,060 --> 02:28:09,060
since.

2130
02:28:09,060 --> 02:28:12,860
Well, I think that's a beautiful place to round this off.

2131
02:28:12,860 --> 02:28:18,060
So people can obviously hear all the mentions of Carlo in the book amongst many, many other

2132
02:28:18,060 --> 02:28:20,540
stories that we didn't go into deliberately.

2133
02:28:20,540 --> 02:28:24,100
So there's a lot more people can get from the book.

2134
02:28:24,100 --> 02:28:26,360
Where are the best places to find the book itself?

2135
02:28:26,360 --> 02:28:29,660
And then what about you on social media or anywhere else?

2136
02:28:29,660 --> 02:28:30,660
Yeah.

2137
02:28:30,660 --> 02:28:36,180
So Amazon, of course, just published or pushed out an audible through Amazon.

2138
02:28:36,180 --> 02:28:40,140
Amazon has the paperback and the hardback and the Kindle.

2139
02:28:40,140 --> 02:28:47,860
Also I have a website at combatcarewarrior.com, again, www.combatcarewarrior.com and you can

2140
02:28:47,860 --> 02:28:50,500
purchase the book on that site as well.

2141
02:28:50,500 --> 02:28:52,200
I do do speaking engagements.

2142
02:28:52,200 --> 02:28:54,860
So I've done a few of those.

2143
02:28:54,860 --> 02:29:00,100
Excited to speak with veterans, non-veterans, first responders, to have that dialogue and

2144
02:29:00,100 --> 02:29:06,140
that discussion about mental health and traumas that we really work through based upon very

2145
02:29:06,140 --> 02:29:09,420
similar experiences or same like experiences really.

2146
02:29:09,420 --> 02:29:17,140
And social media, I'm on Instagram, just Christine Collins RN on Insta.

2147
02:29:17,140 --> 02:29:18,140
And that's pretty much it.

2148
02:29:18,140 --> 02:29:21,420
I'm not very huge on social media.

2149
02:29:21,420 --> 02:29:23,980
I probably should be, but I'm not.

2150
02:29:23,980 --> 02:29:24,980
A lot of it's overrated.

2151
02:29:24,980 --> 02:29:28,780
I like Instagram when I'm not shadow banned, which seems to be all the time because I talk

2152
02:29:28,780 --> 02:29:30,140
about the middle of the road stuff.

2153
02:29:30,140 --> 02:29:33,900
But anyway, but I just want to thank you so much.

2154
02:29:33,900 --> 02:29:39,180
It's been such an incredible conversation as obviously there's a lot of parallels between

2155
02:29:39,180 --> 02:29:40,500
our two careers.

2156
02:29:40,500 --> 02:29:44,300
But as you said, it's a lens that people need to see.

2157
02:29:44,300 --> 02:29:45,300
These are stories.

2158
02:29:45,300 --> 02:29:48,740
These are the links in the chain that we don't get to talk about.

2159
02:29:48,740 --> 02:29:52,400
You've got your field medics and then you've got Walter Reed and then Germany usually.

2160
02:29:52,400 --> 02:29:56,540
So I want to thank you so, so much for being so generous with your time and coming on the

2161
02:29:56,540 --> 02:29:59,140
Behind the Shield podcast today.

2162
02:29:59,140 --> 02:30:00,140
Thank you very much.

2163
02:30:00,140 --> 02:30:10,300
I really appreciate it.