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This episode is brought to you by Thorne and I have some incredible news for any of you

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To learn more about Thorn, go to episode 323 of the Behind the Shield podcast with Joel

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Titoro and Wes Barnett.

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Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast.

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As always, my name is James Gearing and this week it is my absolute honor to welcome on

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the show, LA firefighter and the man behind the Grab Lives podcast, John Vargas.

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In this conversation, we discuss a host of topics from his early life, his journey into

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the fire service, the TBI that initiated his own mental health struggles, discovering the

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gamut of mental health healing tools, Buddhism, psychedelics and so much more.

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Before we get to this incredible conversation, as I say every week, please just take a moment.

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Go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback and

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leave a rating.

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Every single five star rating truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making it easier for

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others to find.

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And this is a free library of almost 1000 episodes now.

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And as I mentioned in my last episode, I just released my second book, kinder, which is

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available on ebook and paperback on Amazon.

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So without further ado, I introduced to you John Vargas.

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So John, I want to start by saying thank you so much for taking the time and coming on

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the behind the shield podcast today.

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Oh, dude, thank you for having me, man.

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It's an honor to collaborate and, you know, really just have this opportunity.

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So thank you.

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So where on planet earth are we finding you this morning?

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I am in Long Beach, California, in LA County.

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So Southern California area.

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Is there a lot of pride in the LBC watching Snoop Dogg represent you guys in the Olympics

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this year?

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Snoop Dogg is a huge, I guess, part of the culture.

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And I think Long Beach is a very unique city.

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So it's like it's been referred to as the center of the universe because it's so diverse,

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but it holds characteristics of the city of Los Angeles, but has more of a pride for the

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city, which is really hard to find.

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I did the 9-11 musical, the World Trade Center movie, Nicholas Cage movie.

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I worked on there as a kind of glorified extra, as a firefighter.

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And that was in Long Beach, right by the beach.

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They built an entire, you know, ground zero set basically.

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But yeah, it's a beautiful, beautiful city.

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I lived just south of you in the Huntington Beach for a few years when I worked for Anaheim.

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Oh, rad.

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So with that, just talking about diversity for a second.

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One of the things that I really struggle with when it comes to the way that we are told

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that Americans feel is I see an immensely diverse culture.

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And obviously when I lived in Southern California, it was very, very diverse.

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When I lived in London, it was very, very diverse.

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And yet the TV tells you that this race hates this race and this political party hates this

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political party.

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Expand on the diverse culture that you grew up around.

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And if you saw, you know, huge tension between these groups or you saw a lot more community

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than division.

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Well, I mean, I grew up in a very more of a poor area.

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So but my parents had me confined to a gated community so I could be somewhat safe.

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But the beautiful part is like you could go to the next block and have these million dollar

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homes and then the next block would be like a Cambodian just dense area of living.

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And then the next block you'll have, you know, even more poor neighborhoods.

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And then you have the next block would be, you know, highly Hispanic neighborhoods.

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And then you would have million dollar homes again.

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So it's very interesting how you can within a, let's say a mile radius, you have such

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a diverse group of people living so closely together.

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So I think the media is always going to depict a extreme version of things.

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And it's designed to keep us from being against each other or to always be at a tense polarized

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way of living.

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And that's always been my perception of how that's always being portrayed.

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And I think it's false really.

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So talk to me then about your childhood.

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What did your parents do?

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And then what was it like growing up in that gated community in that very diverse culture?

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Well I think my parents, they grew up as Hispanic gang members really.

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My parents are both involved in gangs and a heavily disrupted lifestyle of living.

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And my mother had me when she was 17.

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So having a very young mom, she realized that she had to change her life quickly.

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So she tried to protect me from living my life in that style of living.

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And I think escaping that, my parents put me in private school my whole life to keep

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me away from the schools around our geographical area of living.

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So I had an opportunity to change the paradigm of how the generational, I guess, way of living

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had been progressing.

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So becoming a firefighter was a gateway to extract my family out of that environment.

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And I was the first person within a couple of generations of even graduating college.

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So it was a big deal to have that and gain that stigma of extracting myself out of that

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way of, I guess, generational trauma really.

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It sounds, I mean, that's an amazing conversation that you had parents that were initially in

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the gangs as young people and then got to the point where they had children, they had

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the foresight to actually, and the courage to actually say, we're not going to carry

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that next domino fall with our children.

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What was, when you talk to them, what was it that took them into the gangs?

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What was their childhood like?

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And then where did that courage come from?

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Where was that ability to actually say, I see the damage this is doing and I'm not going

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to let it carry on another generation?

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I think most of my family is really broken.

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And from just living in poverty and trying to survive, it's just the survival mode.

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And so I think my family took an edge to use Christianity as their gateway to live a different

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life.

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And so most of that led to them making life changes.

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And me growing up, I went to Christian schools my whole life.

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And so there was two sides to that coin.

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There's also a lot of dogma and doctrines that I was ingrained with as a small child

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that also hurt me, and even living under this idea of guilt, sin also hurt me.

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But also being able to have the opportunity to be in private schools rescued me from not

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being involved in these other public schools around my poverty area, the geographical area,

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like I had mentioned.

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So I think that courage came with a cost still and understanding because I also grew up going

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to a congregational church that was very legalistic and those doctrines also put me in a box.

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So it was very strange to see that it also helped, but also it had some type of limitations

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upon how I was able to progress in my life.

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So as we look at this from a zoomed out perspective, I realized most of my life ended up becoming

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a sense of anarchy still.

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I grew up being this punk rock skateboarder and involved in that, I guess, anti-government,

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anti-societal outcasts in a way.

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So that was most of my roots and foundation of how I lived my life as an adolescent with

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angst and doing everything I could do to create an image of that part of myself for me.

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When I lived in Japan, there was so much respect within the workplace.

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There was never a kind of challenging of the hierarchy.

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But when you watch my Japanese peers, when they would off gas, when they would drink,

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they would drink themselves into oblivion a lot of the times.

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It's interesting when you suppress people, and I'd say the same with alcohol in America,

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not that alcohol is something that should be promoted, but the stigma until you're 21

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is like drawing the bow back.

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And then when you let go, you have beer pong and keg stands and shots and all these kinds

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of things.

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If you go to Europe, they just drink with their dinner.

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People drink, it's not like they're teetotal over there, but there isn't this wait, wait,

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wait, wait.

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And that suppression or repression, excuse me, more often than not has a greater cost

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when you're actually finally free to do whatever it is you've been told not to.

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Yeah, it's a pretty interesting approach, right?

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From a anthropologic standpoint, you're seeing different cultures, especially from Americans,

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we create everything in a taboo way.

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So there's an approach to it to where you're making these false identities based off the

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way we label things, the way we create our culture around even something like drinking.

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And it's funny you even bring up Japan because I've been to Japan and their culture is very

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interesting and they do have this presence of high amount of respect for their elders

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and everything they do.

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But the younger generations, they also have, like you had mentioned, this repression of

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something, right?

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And it's just fascinating to witness when you're also coming as an American to other

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different cultures and experiencing different lifestyles and different approaches and the

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way we operate.

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I've had some interesting conversations with people who were into punk rock, they were

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skateboarders, but they were also straight edge, which I'd never heard that term before

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until a few years ago.

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So you've got the ones that are really going down the drinking, smoking, whatever path.

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And then you've got these guys unbeknownst to most that are skinheads and covered in

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tattoos and skateboarding, but actually don't drink, don't smoke, and actually quite a clean

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living.

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Which of those two paths did you find yourself going down?

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Oh man, I was a partier drinking and trying to rebel as much as I could.

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Really the skateboarding culture is about that too, is kind of like smoking cigarettes

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and skateboarding and looking cool, right?

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It's like this pretty interesting way of living.

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And I think the skateboarding culture in Southern California, I mean, it revolutionized in Venice

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Beach and like when back in the Pau Peralta days, the Bones Brigade, they really started

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that.

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So the skateboarding culture has a lot of history.

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And so I think being able to escape from your parents' house to go skateboarding and hang

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out with your friends, be idiots at the park and doing stupid stuff, it also caused a bit

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of maturity and independence when you make stupid mistakes.

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And the skateboarding culture is all about falling down and getting up.

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If you can take it from that perspective too, it's like you keep trying and trying again

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until you complete the task of the trick you're trying to make or whatever you're trying to

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accomplish.

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You know, it hurts.

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Concrete is unforgivable.

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It's brutal.

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What you mentioned, obviously skateboarding.

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What about any other sports?

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You ended up in a profession where we arguably need to be extremely fit and strong.

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What were you doing at the school age?

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Well, I was always super active, man.

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Like I was a soccer player my whole life and just a really good athlete overall.

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I was always a star of my team and I just loved just pushing myself to the limit.

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And it was always a part of me.

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It was a part of how I truly had passion for that way of the physical space in my ability

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to advance myself and also the team effort, you know, and being involved within a team.

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There especially with soccer or football, right?

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The sport where you use your feet.

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Yeah.

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I realized like even when you're playing in a team sport, there is like this connection

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you have with your teammates where you're not individualized, but you're within this

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telepathic network of this web of existence within each other, which I really found to

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be astonishing and thrilling at the same time as I continued my sports.

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I played football as well, American football, and I just loved team sports essentially,

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you know, and that's kind of what led me to wanting to pick a career that involved a team

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environment per se and also being able to push myself to extreme physical limits.

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When you were the same age, school age, were you already thinking of the fire service?

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Was there something else when it came to career aspirations?

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I think I initially was involved with a lot of art because I was an artist and I also

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loved English class and literature.

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So I read so many different books and I wanted initially to be an English teacher and an

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art teacher and my mom was a teacher my entire life.

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She was a teacher for about 15, 16 years and so that's kind of what I wanted.

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And then there was a time period around 2008 where we had the recession and so a lot of

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teachers had gotten laid off.

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And so when I graduated high school, I was like, this is probably not the best career

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based off how teachers get treated, number one.

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And then on top of that, excuse me, I wanted to be also active because I was so active

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and I never wanted to sit behind a desk or inside of a cubicle.

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And so my cousin worked for the city of Los Angeles fire department and he inspired me

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to go that route after I graduated.

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So I lost my, I guess, drive to wanting to be a teacher.

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But now I'm seeing that I am able to teach people both in the fire service and through

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the podcast, which is pretty amazing.

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It's interesting.

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And that is a story of Steve Jobs and he went to university, but he didn't do a major or

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minor.

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He just took classes.

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And one of the ones he took was calligraphy.

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And then fast forward a few years, they invent the, the Apple, the Mac, and they become the

228
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first ever computer company to use fonts on their screen.

229
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And it was his calligraphy class.

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So sometimes you never know the things that you thought you were supposed to do forever

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that you don't, or you try a class that 10, 15, 20 years, it might circle around and be

232
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pertinent in your new career.

233
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Yeah, totally.

234
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And it's truly amazing to see now when like there's a topic of discussion on a podcast

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episode or even in life, like all the literature I had read over the years had been preparing

236
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me for the subjects of discussion.

237
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Cause I studied so many different types of literature.

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And now I have this plethora of a library in my deck of cards that I can just pull out,

239
00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:33,080
you know, and be very useful, especially for topics of philosophical thought and even

240
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Eastern philosophy that has become a really great anchor and how to understand the mind

241
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and how we are able to liberate ourselves from, from that space of that suffering in

242
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a sense, you know?

243
00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:47,480
Absolutely.

244
00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:53,000
Well, you mentioned 2008, I left Anaheim in 2008, much to the shock of everyone.

245
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Cause no one leaves Anaheim, but I went back to the East coast.

246
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I was married at the time.

247
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We had a little boy and she wanted to be back near her parents.

248
00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:05,160
Uh, sadly about a year and a half later, I discovered that there was someone else in

249
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the house while I was at the fire station.

250
00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:08,760
So the marriage didn't last any much longer.

251
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And I was thinking about moving back to the West coast with my son, but that's when the

252
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crash hit and there was a hiring freeze.

253
00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:21,440
So talk to me about deciding to be a firefighter in, in that time, because I know it was competitive

254
00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:24,160
before, but I know it got even worse after that.

255
00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:32,080
Oh man, if you were trying to be a firefighter after 2008, it was extremely challenging and

256
00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:38,840
extremely competitive and you had to be in the top percentile to even get a look at your

257
00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:39,840
resume.

258
00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:44,720
So I spent a lot of my years on the grind.

259
00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:54,120
Um, you know, I started working as an EMT for a 911 responding agency working in Tandem

260
00:19:54,120 --> 00:19:56,440
with LA County fire department.

261
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So I worked for eight years for that company before I got hired, which is working as an

262
00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:08,080
EMT for that 911 agency was the least sexy job you could have done.

263
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You're still working platoon duty, 911 calls, uh, 24 hour shifts.

264
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So sleepless nights and part of the most populated poorest areas that you could work in.

265
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And it taught me a lot, you know, seeing and experiencing all of that stuff.

266
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And it, it prepared me for working as a paramedic two years prior to getting hired by LA FD.

267
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And I also worked for the forest service for a few seasons as well as a seasonal.

268
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So I would work, uh, fighting wildfires from the whole side of the Western hemisphere,

269
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from Washington state all the way down to California and New Mexico.

270
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And I would come back and then work this, you know, job that paid minimum wage, working

271
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the same exact, doing the basically the same exact job as LA County fire.

272
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And but really learning the trade.

273
00:21:04,660 --> 00:21:10,800
And so by the time I was getting hired by the city of Los Angeles fire department, I

274
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:17,220
had such a great understanding of the culture of the way the 911 system works.

275
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And I always was in shape for sure.

276
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And so I think that prepared me so well for the job.

277
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And even though it was competitive, it, it pushed me to inspire myself and find that

278
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:39,600
grit and on top of that, never giving up it.

279
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:44,900
Cause I would test for so many different departments and interviews for so many different departments.

280
00:21:44,900 --> 00:21:48,680
And I took no, I never took no for an answer.

281
00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:50,360
Let's contrast for a second.

282
00:21:50,360 --> 00:21:55,800
When I tested for Anaheim in 2005 at the actual written and people listening to the podcast

283
00:21:55,800 --> 00:22:00,600
have heard me say this many times, but I think it's important to show where we are today

284
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:05,600
in the actual written tests were a thousand plus candidates for what we discovered was

285
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:07,340
30 spots.

286
00:22:07,340 --> 00:22:09,920
Everyone had, you know, fire EMT or paramedic.

287
00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:11,960
A lot of them had green jeans experience.

288
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:16,360
A lot of them were ambulance operators prior, you know, explorer programs.

289
00:22:16,360 --> 00:22:21,240
I mean, just, just a resume, a competitive resume.

290
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:24,920
When you fast forward now, that doesn't seem to be the case anymore, but I don't want to

291
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:25,920
load the question.

292
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:30,600
What are you seeing at LA FD now versus the environment that you were trying to test in

293
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:34,280
the beginning of your career?

294
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:44,480
It's really strange because that culture of members who strove for that greatness, I guess,

295
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:50,520
to get the job and the pride, I think when you got the badge has kind of shifted a little

296
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:51,520
bit.

297
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:58,400
You know, I think there's, I mean, cause I get a lot of rookies or paraprobationary members

298
00:22:58,400 --> 00:22:59,920
who come into my station.

299
00:22:59,920 --> 00:23:05,200
And so we're getting so many different types of people and I think that pride and that

300
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:11,520
aspiration for the work you did prior to build that resume has definitely changed.

301
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:15,200
I think now there is a bit of lack of that.

302
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:19,720
So you know, a lot of some of these people don't have any experience at all.

303
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:26,320
And so their first time stepping into a fire station is their first day of probation and

304
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:33,280
not understanding the culture and have never worked a 24 hour shift schedule.

305
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:41,360
And so it is hard to teach someone the culture and the understandings of this web of existence

306
00:23:41,360 --> 00:23:44,720
within the fire culture as well.

307
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:52,020
So there's a bit of more of teaching that has to go on for this newer style of hiring

308
00:23:52,020 --> 00:23:57,360
with people who don't have that education on the basics of the understandings of how

309
00:23:57,360 --> 00:24:00,400
things are in operation, if that makes sense.

310
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:01,400
It does completely.

311
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:07,260
And if I think of, for example, ocean lifeguard, Navy seal, you know, these people are doing

312
00:24:07,260 --> 00:24:10,880
immense amounts of swimming prep classes, you know, they're working up for months and

313
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,020
months and months to get to that point.

314
00:24:13,020 --> 00:24:15,560
And that's what we were doing early in our career as well.

315
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:20,400
I mean, I was, you know, working days, going to fire academy at night, running and working

316
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:24,640
out on my lunch breaks of this work and, you know, getting to the academy early and doing

317
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:30,640
stairs and hoes and dummies and Kaiser sleds and making sure that if there was a test that

318
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:35,480
I was going to ace everything that was in my control, I couldn't, I couldn't dictate

319
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:37,200
if the person interviewing like me or not.

320
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:41,040
That's a personality trait, but I could make sure my academic and my written and my fitness

321
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:45,400
were as good as I could within this body.

322
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:52,080
But what I'm seeing now, and again, I'd love to get your take from LA perspective is when

323
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:58,120
there and we'll get into the why, but when there is less of a demand at the front door

324
00:24:58,120 --> 00:25:03,260
to enter a fire department, all of a sudden people are, oh, I only need to be in the top

325
00:25:03,260 --> 00:25:06,400
50%, 60%, 70% now.

326
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:10,520
And so there, that's where I think you lose a lot of that drive because those good people

327
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:14,560
are in there, but you're not asking them to rise up to the challenge anymore.

328
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:17,240
You're like, we can just walk straight in now if you want.

329
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:23,160
So as far as the number of candidates that demand to be a LA firefighter, have you seen

330
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:25,560
a decline over the last few years?

331
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:27,920
Oh, for sure.

332
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:34,400
And it's, it's hard because right now it's like all the gates are open because we have

333
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:41,280
so many vacancies and the baby boomer generation has now been retiring and mass numbers.

334
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:47,120
So there's a mass exodus, especially with that mass exodus comes a high amount of knowledge

335
00:25:47,120 --> 00:25:52,960
and wisdom within those people who've been teaching the culture and teaching the way

336
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,580
of how firefighting has been, has been done.

337
00:25:56,580 --> 00:26:03,520
And it's, it's very hard because of the city of Los Angeles is a very busy department.

338
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:10,920
And on top of that, we go to a lot of fires that require a, a higher amount of firefighter

339
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,240
intelligence because of the building construction.

340
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:17,360
That's very old and the water systems that are in place.

341
00:26:17,360 --> 00:26:22,540
And on top of that, the EMS calls we go on are through the roof.

342
00:26:22,540 --> 00:26:28,780
And so sometimes we're even seeing paper EMTs who've been getting hired, who had no experience

343
00:26:28,780 --> 00:26:29,780
with that.

344
00:26:29,780 --> 00:26:34,800
So now we have to go backwards on even teaching basic EMT skills.

345
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:42,500
So it's, it becomes a challenge I think for everyone because of having to backtrack instead

346
00:26:42,500 --> 00:26:47,400
of being able to teach, you know, the stuff that's more advanced, we have to go over the

347
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,220
basics again.

348
00:26:49,220 --> 00:26:54,040
So I think that's one of the bigger things that, that has we've been seeing and been

349
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:58,840
addressing and it's, it's frustrating for some of the older members, especially the

350
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:01,220
ones who the supervisors are in place.

351
00:27:01,220 --> 00:27:05,040
And because they already have so much on their plate, we're busy.

352
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:08,080
You're getting your teeth kicked in every single night.

353
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:15,160
And now having to go back to teach basics is it's an extra wrench in the system.

354
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:16,160
Absolutely.

355
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,200
Well, again, I'm not going to load the question.

356
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:25,000
I'll kind of input some of my, my observations after, but before I do that, what collectively

357
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:30,760
is the discussion in LAFD as far as the reasons for the decline for recruitment?

358
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:38,720
Well, I think since the lockdown, there is less people wanting to be in a, in within

359
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:42,840
a job or a career for public service, especially in the medical field.

360
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:50,240
So I think right now we're just taking these applications and to be on, I'm not in recruiting

361
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:51,240
at all.

362
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:52,920
So I don't understand their algorithm.

363
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:58,500
I do know that they want a diversified amount of people also.

364
00:27:58,500 --> 00:28:05,760
And so they, they choose based off your, your diversity, like even your ethnicity.

365
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:09,240
And so that's one of the main factors too, is they want to have a great mix, which is

366
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:10,240
no problem.

367
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:15,440
But, you know, is, is, does that mean you're, you're choosing a person based off their

368
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:20,840
qualifications or is it based off of your ethnicity, which is a very strange thing that

369
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:24,080
where everyone is scratching their heads on.

370
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:33,340
And I think for the, the image LAFD wants to present, you know, can also be distorted

371
00:28:33,340 --> 00:28:38,580
based off of, you know, what we actually have to do in this busy environment.

372
00:28:38,580 --> 00:28:45,440
That's one of the highest populated municipal cities in the United States, but that's neither

373
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:46,440
here nor there.

374
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:52,160
I really think that I have to be open with every single person who steps into my fire

375
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:57,120
station and treating them without judgment and just whatever they come to me with and

376
00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:59,820
present themselves as that's what I get.

377
00:28:59,820 --> 00:29:03,060
And so I have to meet them at their level regardless.

378
00:29:03,060 --> 00:29:08,780
And I think for other people, it frustrates them even more because firefighters don't

379
00:29:08,780 --> 00:29:09,780
like change.

380
00:29:09,780 --> 00:29:15,440
And we're, we're experiencing a massive paradigm of change within the culture.

381
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:21,040
And so I think when that happens, you'll have a lot of people greeting their teeth and they're,

382
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:25,260
they're just expressing off the glory days of how things used to be and they resisted

383
00:29:25,260 --> 00:29:26,260
a little bit.

384
00:29:26,260 --> 00:29:28,080
And so I, I don't believe in that approach.

385
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:34,100
I think we have to adjust to what is being presented to us regardless.

386
00:29:34,100 --> 00:29:39,180
It's interesting again, of these conversations when it comes to the diversity conversation,

387
00:29:39,180 --> 00:29:40,860
the answer is mentorship.

388
00:29:40,860 --> 00:29:46,220
And I've watched really successful mentorship programs go into underserved communities where

389
00:29:46,220 --> 00:29:50,500
they are not being empowered to either believe that they could be a firefighter or a cop

390
00:29:50,500 --> 00:29:54,420
or they don't have the resources because a lot of us went through academy and I had the,

391
00:29:54,420 --> 00:29:56,780
actually my mom literally helped pay for my fire academy.

392
00:29:56,780 --> 00:30:00,060
There's a lot of people that wouldn't be the case.

393
00:30:00,060 --> 00:30:03,580
So here locally, one of my friends started one and they have it downtown.

394
00:30:03,580 --> 00:30:05,260
It's completely free.

395
00:30:05,260 --> 00:30:09,560
All the kids have to do is just get there, show up and then they get free training.

396
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:11,220
They obviously get the gear to train in.

397
00:30:11,220 --> 00:30:13,780
There's scholarships for a fire academy.

398
00:30:13,780 --> 00:30:18,460
And so what you do is you go into this group that you is underserved and you ask them all

399
00:30:18,460 --> 00:30:23,460
to rise up to be the level of a firefighter and 10, 20, 30 of them do.

400
00:30:23,460 --> 00:30:25,060
And you're like, okay, amazing.

401
00:30:25,060 --> 00:30:29,340
And so now you've got the ethnicity and the skillset simultaneously.

402
00:30:29,340 --> 00:30:34,880
If you just scoop up a bunch of English guys, because they're underserved in LA and some

403
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,860
of us are fucking awful, but you're stuck with us.

404
00:30:37,860 --> 00:30:38,860
You know what I mean?

405
00:30:38,860 --> 00:30:42,340
So it's such an easy solution.

406
00:30:42,340 --> 00:30:47,220
You don't box check, you go in, you train, you expose these young people to what it's

407
00:30:47,220 --> 00:30:51,620
like to be a firefighter, you give them the physical challenges and the mental challenges

408
00:30:51,620 --> 00:30:55,020
and put them through some things that are going to scare them, you know, mazes and up

409
00:30:55,020 --> 00:30:58,020
the aerial and things that we are having, you know, we're going to have to do in the

410
00:30:58,020 --> 00:30:59,200
job.

411
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:03,380
And that allows you then to self-select the great recruits that are, you know, whatever

412
00:31:03,380 --> 00:31:06,740
this minority group that you're trying to recruit from.

413
00:31:06,740 --> 00:31:11,460
Because I remember at Anaheim when I tested, it was a sea of white male faces, but that

414
00:31:11,460 --> 00:31:15,520
was obviously, I mean, it was, you know, obviously they weren't doing a very good job of penetrating

415
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:16,620
other areas.

416
00:31:16,620 --> 00:31:22,340
So that's wasn't deliberate, but again, it's a kind of byproduct of a shitty system.

417
00:31:22,340 --> 00:31:26,100
So as they say, you know, for women firefighters, why are we not going to the CrossFit gyms

418
00:31:26,100 --> 00:31:30,620
and the Spartan races and the softball, you know, and all these places where women are

419
00:31:30,620 --> 00:31:34,820
working as a team, they're extremely athletic, you know, there are places where you can go

420
00:31:34,820 --> 00:31:37,140
and find these incredible recruits.

421
00:31:37,140 --> 00:31:40,740
But the answer is not to just scoop a bunch of them up and say, all right, congratulations,

422
00:31:40,740 --> 00:31:42,100
you're all firefighters now.

423
00:31:42,100 --> 00:31:48,740
Yeah, I think the LAFT has done definitely an excellent job on creating more environments.

424
00:31:48,740 --> 00:31:57,060
They have a women's academy and they have an area in like South LA where they're doing

425
00:31:57,060 --> 00:32:05,100
the best they can to recruit members in those communities, particularly the African American

426
00:32:05,100 --> 00:32:06,100
community.

427
00:32:06,100 --> 00:32:16,300
So it's really, it is such a great opportunity to have someone from those areas kind of escape

428
00:32:16,300 --> 00:32:22,980
those environments because it is a trap in those living areas and those areas of living

429
00:32:22,980 --> 00:32:34,280
because it's just, I guess, it's just designed for people to always go into gangs and violence,

430
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:37,780
you know, and it's just a never ending loop.

431
00:32:37,780 --> 00:32:42,740
And so to have people overcome the obstacle and say, hey, I want to become a firefighter

432
00:32:42,740 --> 00:32:48,020
and change their life or their family and so forth is a great opportunity.

433
00:32:48,020 --> 00:32:52,620
I mean, I did that for myself and I know what that feels like.

434
00:32:52,620 --> 00:33:04,420
And to have a new life and a new way of having this blue collar job that has, I guess, this

435
00:33:04,420 --> 00:33:08,980
golden opportunity for yourself to make a change is really huge.

436
00:33:08,980 --> 00:33:10,420
Absolutely.

437
00:33:10,420 --> 00:33:15,220
When I worked for Anaheim, it was the one on one off, one on one off, you know, four

438
00:33:15,220 --> 00:33:17,380
times and you had a four or six day at the end.

439
00:33:17,380 --> 00:33:19,020
So it's a 56 hour week.

440
00:33:19,020 --> 00:33:20,740
What are you guys working in LA?

441
00:33:20,740 --> 00:33:22,860
Yeah, it's very similar.

442
00:33:22,860 --> 00:33:25,740
I mean, we have what's referred to as a segment.

443
00:33:25,740 --> 00:33:29,780
So it's it's three days of with two days in between.

444
00:33:29,780 --> 00:33:32,900
So you're working 24 hour schedule.

445
00:33:32,900 --> 00:33:38,220
So with the four days in between, and then we have to work two extra days a month that

446
00:33:38,220 --> 00:33:43,820
are referred to as sign hires based off of vacancy levels that so essentially working

447
00:33:43,820 --> 00:33:50,340
10 days a month, 24 hour platoon schedule with those two extra days in between.

448
00:33:50,340 --> 00:33:52,420
So it's a 56 hour work week.

449
00:33:52,420 --> 00:33:53,940
Yeah, around there.

450
00:33:53,940 --> 00:33:54,940
Yeah.

451
00:33:54,940 --> 00:33:57,900
So this is this is one of the things this ties completely into the mental health conversation

452
00:33:57,900 --> 00:33:59,300
as well.

453
00:33:59,300 --> 00:34:05,300
What I have seen through now almost 1000 conversations and obviously my own experience prior to that

454
00:34:05,300 --> 00:34:08,340
is in 2024.

455
00:34:08,340 --> 00:34:15,020
And again, the pandemic certainly pulled people's eyes open on how to lead very poorly, i.e.

456
00:34:15,020 --> 00:34:19,060
the government and then, you know, the way that our first responders are treated, you

457
00:34:19,060 --> 00:34:22,140
know, out in the front line, everyone's clapping and now all of a sudden they're murderers

458
00:34:22,140 --> 00:34:24,360
for not taking vaccines.

459
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:29,380
So you know, there's a lot of that kind of lack of support that was very evident to our

460
00:34:29,380 --> 00:34:33,580
potential firefighters, police officers, doctors, nurses, etc.

461
00:34:33,580 --> 00:34:38,580
But the other thing is, I'm told over and over and over again, these this younger generation

462
00:34:38,580 --> 00:34:42,940
actually value their health, their mental health, their time with their loved ones.

463
00:34:42,940 --> 00:34:47,380
And when you look at the way that I work most of my career, 56 plus mandatories at the yin

464
00:34:47,380 --> 00:34:51,620
yang, that's the opposite of what these young people want.

465
00:34:51,620 --> 00:34:56,740
So what's starting to happen here and it's so amazing to see is departments are starting

466
00:34:56,740 --> 00:35:02,660
to go to 24 72 because they're realizing that the way that we're working our first responders

467
00:35:02,660 --> 00:35:08,300
is killing them in a multitude of ways, whether it's suicide or overdose, whether it's cancer,

468
00:35:08,300 --> 00:35:10,820
heart disease, you know, you name it.

469
00:35:10,820 --> 00:35:15,560
And it's just not set up for the high core volume that most of us endure in the suburban

470
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:17,800
and urban departments.

471
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:21,980
And so when you look at it on paper, these young people are going, that doesn't look

472
00:35:21,980 --> 00:35:22,980
very good.

473
00:35:22,980 --> 00:35:26,500
56 hours a week and then, you know, 730 in the morning, you can tell me I can't go home

474
00:35:26,500 --> 00:35:28,980
to my kid for another 24 hours.

475
00:35:28,980 --> 00:35:31,380
You know, and that's your staffing model over and over and over again.

476
00:35:31,380 --> 00:35:33,180
We're not talking about an earthquake or a hurricane.

477
00:35:33,180 --> 00:35:36,220
We're talking about fucking continuously.

478
00:35:36,220 --> 00:35:40,580
So what is interesting is you talked about firefighters hate change.

479
00:35:40,580 --> 00:35:45,660
When you actually look at proactively taking care of your firefighters and giving them

480
00:35:45,660 --> 00:35:51,020
an extra shift between so it was 24 48 becomes 24 72.

481
00:35:51,020 --> 00:35:54,940
That actually saves a shitload of money because over time alone at the moment would cover

482
00:35:54,940 --> 00:35:59,620
a D shift in most departments that bleeding money through time and a half and killing

483
00:35:59,620 --> 00:36:00,900
their people in the process.

484
00:36:00,900 --> 00:36:06,260
So this is where I find this the, you know, the elephant in the room in the cancer conversation,

485
00:36:06,260 --> 00:36:11,660
in the suicide conversation and in the recruitment conversation is if we don't fix the things

486
00:36:11,660 --> 00:36:15,940
that have been broken and we've just been turning a blind eye to this is only going

487
00:36:15,940 --> 00:36:19,780
to get worse and worse and we're not going to have a fire department eventually because

488
00:36:19,780 --> 00:36:21,580
the recruitment is declining.

489
00:36:21,580 --> 00:36:26,140
And as you said, the type of people we're getting are some phenomenal firefighters,

490
00:36:26,140 --> 00:36:29,740
but we're getting more and more and more of the wrong kind of person who's going to be

491
00:36:29,740 --> 00:36:32,020
a drain, not an asset to the fire department.

492
00:36:32,020 --> 00:36:37,740
Yeah, that was well said in a sense where sleep is so important.

493
00:36:37,740 --> 00:36:42,300
I mean it, it, there's so many studies on sleep that we're seeing it affects our mental

494
00:36:42,300 --> 00:36:43,860
health, right?

495
00:36:43,860 --> 00:36:50,620
And to be, to be truly honest, I don't see that changing within the LFD at all.

496
00:36:50,620 --> 00:36:52,540
I don't, I don't see that happening.

497
00:36:52,540 --> 00:36:57,220
And with it, if there does happen to be a conversation surrounding the subject of shift

498
00:36:57,220 --> 00:37:01,020
change, there has to be the union is going to get involved and they've already tried

499
00:37:01,020 --> 00:37:08,060
to push having a 48 96 schedule, which would have been helpful, which is not going to help.

500
00:37:08,060 --> 00:37:12,020
I don't see that changing at all anytime soon.

501
00:37:12,020 --> 00:37:15,620
And so there's something that has to take place.

502
00:37:15,620 --> 00:37:20,220
And so if you can't change the things around you and you can't do anything about what the

503
00:37:20,220 --> 00:37:25,800
administration is doing, you have to take ownership for what you can do for yourself.

504
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:32,140
So that's why doing it, all these things that are going to benefit you based off biohacking

505
00:37:32,140 --> 00:37:36,060
and all the knowledge you can present with yourself and using those tools to your advantage

506
00:37:36,060 --> 00:37:39,700
are going to present the best opportunity for your mental health.

507
00:37:39,700 --> 00:37:46,100
And that's why I started this podcast is because of the high suicidal numbers that we're seeing.

508
00:37:46,100 --> 00:37:52,060
It was insane amount of numbers, especially within our own department and understanding

509
00:37:52,060 --> 00:37:59,420
once I got involved with this, what were the factors and the sub brackets that were supporting

510
00:37:59,420 --> 00:38:04,900
suicide ideation and was supporting this crisis that we're in right now.

511
00:38:04,900 --> 00:38:12,640
A lot of it was unprocessed trauma and seeing exactly what that is, because there's so many

512
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:15,600
misnomers on what trauma is exactly.

513
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:22,340
And so I think when you build on someone who has unprocessed trauma and you add 10, 20

514
00:38:22,340 --> 00:38:27,620
years of alcoholism, because that's huge in our culture, and then you add a person who's

515
00:38:27,620 --> 00:38:35,020
assigned to a very busy assignment and they're getting no sleep for four days, five days,

516
00:38:35,020 --> 00:38:39,420
and they come home and their wife has all their shit laid out on the porch for them

517
00:38:39,420 --> 00:38:43,820
and said, Hey, you're kicked out of the house because you've been a dick the last 10 years.

518
00:38:43,820 --> 00:38:48,380
This is what happens and this is a common theme that we're seeing.

519
00:38:48,380 --> 00:38:52,740
And so what does that person do now that person's isolated there by themselves and some random

520
00:38:52,740 --> 00:38:57,700
apartment that they can barely pay for while they're paying alimony and child support.

521
00:38:57,700 --> 00:39:02,220
And so that's what leads into this crisis.

522
00:39:02,220 --> 00:39:08,980
This is an example that I'm kind of sharing with you, but aside from the 24 hour shift

523
00:39:08,980 --> 00:39:10,620
schedule, like we can't change that.

524
00:39:10,620 --> 00:39:11,620
So what can we do?

525
00:39:11,620 --> 00:39:15,000
And I really believe it has to do with your own ownership.

526
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:18,860
You have to take ownership for the things you can't change, every things you can change,

527
00:39:18,860 --> 00:39:22,420
which is how you show up in your life.

528
00:39:22,420 --> 00:39:27,900
Why is it you think that they it wouldn't change in LA that you wouldn't add an extra

529
00:39:27,900 --> 00:39:31,260
shift between shifts, create a D shift?

530
00:39:31,260 --> 00:39:34,540
Because there's been topics of discussion of already changing it.

531
00:39:34,540 --> 00:39:40,820
And it came down to, I think it was a few years ago, the union had presented this idea

532
00:39:40,820 --> 00:39:45,700
because many people were shooting for this 48 96 schedule that would help a lot of people

533
00:39:45,700 --> 00:39:47,980
to have more time at home.

534
00:39:47,980 --> 00:39:53,060
It came down to what happens when the city starts burning down and brush fires break

535
00:39:53,060 --> 00:40:00,820
out on top of trying to to fill these vacant spots in the busy areas of Skid Row and other

536
00:40:00,820 --> 00:40:07,340
parts of the San Fernando Valley, which are extremely busy in South LA.

537
00:40:07,340 --> 00:40:13,780
There has to be the recalling for these these brush fires during fire season and the assigned

538
00:40:13,780 --> 00:40:16,180
hires these mandatory days we have to work.

539
00:40:16,180 --> 00:40:20,260
I think it became it came down to that.

540
00:40:20,260 --> 00:40:26,620
And I really don't know that the administration's decision based off that, you know, it's I've

541
00:40:26,620 --> 00:40:27,620
watched this evolve.

542
00:40:27,620 --> 00:40:29,460
I've told this for eight years now.

543
00:40:29,460 --> 00:40:34,500
And it's it's been you know, that that slow boulder where it took all this effort just

544
00:40:34,500 --> 00:40:37,700
to get it moving and now it's starting to gain gain traction.

545
00:40:37,700 --> 00:40:42,060
But what's interesting is you fill the holes by going to a better shift, because when you

546
00:40:42,060 --> 00:40:46,020
show these young recruits that you actually give a shit and you create a work week that's

547
00:40:46,020 --> 00:40:50,380
going to allow them to thrive, that's when you get the recruitment that you and I saw

548
00:40:50,380 --> 00:40:52,820
early in our careers again, because the job hasn't changed.

549
00:40:52,820 --> 00:40:56,300
We run fires, we run extrications, we go to medical calls, you know, summons, we will

550
00:40:56,300 --> 00:41:00,220
hang off a rope or you know, but that's that's hasn't changed at all.

551
00:41:00,220 --> 00:41:04,860
There's not more 911 abuse and there's another entire solution to that using telehealth.

552
00:41:04,860 --> 00:41:08,940
But when it comes to the job, it's the working conditions that are deteriorated.

553
00:41:08,940 --> 00:41:14,180
The core volumes have gone up and you know, you just as as you know, when we were testing,

554
00:41:14,180 --> 00:41:18,220
like I was the last class really, actually, there was a class behind me, sorry, with the

555
00:41:18,220 --> 00:41:22,180
30 of us were 15 in my class and 15 behind and we filled all the gaps and that was it.

556
00:41:22,180 --> 00:41:23,740
And that was just filling retirees.

557
00:41:23,740 --> 00:41:25,780
It wasn't like people were leaving Anaheim.

558
00:41:25,780 --> 00:41:28,180
And so we were, you know, full.

559
00:41:28,180 --> 00:41:33,900
And so be occasional, you know, overtime prior to that, we got mandatory all the time until

560
00:41:33,900 --> 00:41:37,900
those guys actually got off their probation and then we were good again.

561
00:41:37,900 --> 00:41:41,860
And so this is the other silly crazy thing is if you have a de shift, you have another

562
00:41:41,860 --> 00:41:46,860
entire platoon to come in for wildfires for these other things.

563
00:41:46,860 --> 00:41:52,380
So this actually saves a shitload of money and that money then can, you know, open that

564
00:41:52,380 --> 00:41:56,060
browned out station, put that fourth person back on the rig.

565
00:41:56,060 --> 00:42:00,020
But so, you know, when if we keep doing it the same way, it just gets worse and worse

566
00:42:00,020 --> 00:42:01,020
and worse.

567
00:42:01,020 --> 00:42:05,420
And the 4896 is just, I mean, just the fucking worst idea.

568
00:42:05,420 --> 00:42:09,140
And it sounds weird to people, but it's still a 56 hour work week.

569
00:42:09,140 --> 00:42:12,620
You're spinning the Rubik's Cube, but the cube is still the same fucking size.

570
00:42:12,620 --> 00:42:15,580
You know, you're not giving people more time to go home.

571
00:42:15,580 --> 00:42:19,900
So what we're seeing now in Florida is people are going, they're like, dude, I just shared

572
00:42:19,900 --> 00:42:24,900
the other day an EMS agency in Virginia just went to it, Fire EMS, and they've had the

573
00:42:24,900 --> 00:42:30,380
highest largest new hire class they've ever had because they went to this new.

574
00:42:30,380 --> 00:42:35,540
So this is the thing is that this, the courage to actually change to this fixes so many of

575
00:42:35,540 --> 00:42:36,540
the issues that we have.

576
00:42:36,540 --> 00:42:42,100
But a nice, you know, 4896 or coming in at 7pm instead of 7am with the same schedule

577
00:42:42,100 --> 00:42:46,220
that you already have isn't attracting anyone else to come to your department.

578
00:42:46,220 --> 00:42:51,220
And what we need is people, good people to fill these spots, you know, extra people.

579
00:42:51,220 --> 00:42:54,860
If you're going to have strike teams going out all the time, then you have to over hire

580
00:42:54,860 --> 00:42:57,860
so that you can backfill using people.

581
00:42:57,860 --> 00:43:05,420
So that time and a half for every single open slot is where the money is to hire all these

582
00:43:05,420 --> 00:43:06,420
people.

583
00:43:06,420 --> 00:43:11,580
And if LA advertised that they were going to a 2472, I guarantee you, you would have

584
00:43:11,580 --> 00:43:15,980
lines around the fucking building again and you'd be blown away because I've seen it happen.

585
00:43:15,980 --> 00:43:21,420
Boynton Beach, Gainesville, Pasco County, and now, you know, Virginia, when they've

586
00:43:21,420 --> 00:43:26,300
reached their recruitment immediately turned around because people are like, that's better.

587
00:43:26,300 --> 00:43:27,780
Long Beach is 56 hours.

588
00:43:27,780 --> 00:43:29,420
LA is only 42.

589
00:43:29,420 --> 00:43:33,340
I'm going to go work for LA.

590
00:43:33,340 --> 00:43:35,500
You're saying a lot of great things, dude.

591
00:43:35,500 --> 00:43:41,300
And the firefighter culture, there's a famous expression, what are the two things that firefighters

592
00:43:41,300 --> 00:43:42,300
don't like?

593
00:43:42,300 --> 00:43:44,080
Change and the way things are.

594
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:51,100
So to present this to the administration, you have a lot of politics that are involved

595
00:43:51,100 --> 00:43:52,100
man.

596
00:43:52,100 --> 00:43:57,220
You got a city council that makes, is the head of making the final decision for everything.

597
00:43:57,220 --> 00:44:04,380
And so all these people are in politics, shaking hands with other people and lobbying ideas

598
00:44:04,380 --> 00:44:07,180
that the chief is going to present.

599
00:44:07,180 --> 00:44:10,860
And with that, then you have the union that's going to try to advertise as much as they

600
00:44:10,860 --> 00:44:18,380
can and advocate for the people, the workers, the people who are actually in the muck and

601
00:44:18,380 --> 00:44:20,540
doing the best they can to survive.

602
00:44:20,540 --> 00:44:23,180
And that's essentially the best way to describe it.

603
00:44:23,180 --> 00:44:25,260
We're in survival mode.

604
00:44:25,260 --> 00:44:32,740
And when it comes down to those three sectors of trying to get something done, it's very

605
00:44:32,740 --> 00:44:40,880
difficult to have people agree on what needs to happen in order for some type of change

606
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:45,920
to persist with something that's logical, something that's supporting mental health

607
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:51,140
and something that's supporting our physical bodies from not getting too much, not getting

608
00:44:51,140 --> 00:44:52,140
any sleep.

609
00:44:52,140 --> 00:44:55,540
And our marriages and our children's health.

610
00:44:55,540 --> 00:44:56,540
Totally, dude.

611
00:44:56,540 --> 00:44:57,540
You know what I mean?

612
00:44:57,540 --> 00:45:01,460
And this is the thing is the unions and the membership should, once they're educated on

613
00:45:01,460 --> 00:45:07,700
this, should be fired enough up to stop another flag covered casket being wheeled in while

614
00:45:07,700 --> 00:45:10,580
bagpipes play and the last alarm sounds off.

615
00:45:10,580 --> 00:45:15,620
And the politicians who arguably are only usually led by numbers, when they see how

616
00:45:15,620 --> 00:45:20,780
much money they're bleeding is presented to them in a fiscal way will be like, well, shit,

617
00:45:20,780 --> 00:45:22,380
I'm going to like a rock star.

618
00:45:22,380 --> 00:45:24,660
We need a little extra money upfront to hire these extra people.

619
00:45:24,660 --> 00:45:26,900
I'm going to save money hand over fist.

620
00:45:26,900 --> 00:45:27,900
You know what I mean?

621
00:45:27,900 --> 00:45:28,900
So this is where we're at.

622
00:45:28,900 --> 00:45:34,180
And I think it's exciting is you can either be known as the leader, the chief, the union

623
00:45:34,180 --> 00:45:43,260
leader, the county or city member that progressively fixed the fire department and made it a destination

624
00:45:43,260 --> 00:45:48,100
department or you can be the one that was at the helm when it sinks because it's one

625
00:45:48,100 --> 00:45:49,900
of those two choices now.

626
00:45:49,900 --> 00:45:50,900
Yeah.

627
00:45:50,900 --> 00:45:59,420
I mean, you know, since the lockdown, I believe that the division within our culture is what

628
00:45:59,420 --> 00:46:03,500
really cause an uprise with the people health issues.

629
00:46:03,500 --> 00:46:10,180
And so I hope that, you know, even having this podcast platform can allow the unification

630
00:46:10,180 --> 00:46:12,500
within our members to, to realize AIDS.

631
00:46:12,500 --> 00:46:14,660
It's not up to them.

632
00:46:14,660 --> 00:46:18,540
There's nothing we can do to make them change their mind.

633
00:46:18,540 --> 00:46:23,340
But as we bring a unification piece to what we are doing, the people who are the boots

634
00:46:23,340 --> 00:46:27,940
on the ground actually doing the work, that's the change that's going to happen.

635
00:46:27,940 --> 00:46:30,420
It has to come through the masses.

636
00:46:30,420 --> 00:46:38,620
And so that's been one of my main points on providing for people is that's where the change

637
00:46:38,620 --> 00:46:41,020
is going to happen through us.

638
00:46:41,020 --> 00:46:47,340
And so, but until that happens, we have to still persist on what we can do by changing

639
00:46:47,340 --> 00:46:49,300
ourselves individually.

640
00:46:49,300 --> 00:46:51,620
And so what, what are those things we can change individually?

641
00:46:51,620 --> 00:46:56,020
Well, I can make better choices on how I show up in my life.

642
00:46:56,020 --> 00:47:01,220
And so I have to cut down on my drinking because that's for sure not helping me.

643
00:47:01,220 --> 00:47:05,940
And the decisions I make on how I, how I behave, you know, that's, that's an objective thing

644
00:47:05,940 --> 00:47:08,740
that shows up in your life that you can change.

645
00:47:08,740 --> 00:47:14,020
And if you pull that thread with how your behavior shows up, you'll find a reason and

646
00:47:14,020 --> 00:47:21,300
many reasons, belief systems and identities that you've, you've held to support the behavior

647
00:47:21,300 --> 00:47:23,460
you how you show up in your life.

648
00:47:23,460 --> 00:47:28,480
And you can really do some really good inner work within yourself on making changes that

649
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:33,700
create a ripple effect within the quantum field, within this, this web of this culture

650
00:47:33,700 --> 00:47:35,300
that's going to cause people to change.

651
00:47:35,300 --> 00:47:42,060
And so that's really my, my message is that the internal work you do for yourself is essential.

652
00:47:42,060 --> 00:47:46,420
And if you, if you avoid it, you know, it's, it's still going to come knocking on your

653
00:47:46,420 --> 00:47:50,420
door, whether it's now, whether it's after retirement, whether you meet an injury or

654
00:47:50,420 --> 00:47:56,100
an illness, it's going to that you always have to pay the piper no matter what.

655
00:47:56,100 --> 00:47:59,780
I want to go to your journey and then we'll unpack some of the tools available and some

656
00:47:59,780 --> 00:48:03,740
of the, you know, the, the contributing factors to mental health challenges.

657
00:48:03,740 --> 00:48:10,620
But walk me through some of the career calls that you had, and then let's get to your TBI

658
00:48:10,620 --> 00:48:13,140
and your own kind of mental health journey.

659
00:48:13,140 --> 00:48:14,900
Yeah.

660
00:48:14,900 --> 00:48:23,220
So I, my career started off, you know, since I was 19, doing this stuff, working those,

661
00:48:23,220 --> 00:48:24,860
those platoon duties, like I had mentioned.

662
00:48:24,860 --> 00:48:31,340
And so up until that eight year mark, where I finally got the job, I got the tower date

663
00:48:31,340 --> 00:48:35,380
to start the Academy with the city of Los Angeles fire department.

664
00:48:35,380 --> 00:48:37,540
And it was a great opportunity.

665
00:48:37,540 --> 00:48:43,420
It's one of my, my highly, it was one of my top three departments I wanted to work for

666
00:48:43,420 --> 00:48:44,420
number one.

667
00:48:44,420 --> 00:48:47,700
And once I got hired by them, it was, it was challenging.

668
00:48:47,700 --> 00:48:52,780
You know, I went through two other fire academies prior to that and I was in great shape and

669
00:48:52,780 --> 00:48:56,100
it was still challenging for me, even though I knew the culture and stuff, the city of

670
00:48:56,100 --> 00:49:05,380
Los Angeles has a algorithm for challenges that really weeds out the weak people who

671
00:49:05,380 --> 00:49:10,700
can't go into the, the turnouts and the stuff they had provided.

672
00:49:10,700 --> 00:49:14,900
Because I really believe if you put turnouts on people, it's like kryptonite, you know,

673
00:49:14,900 --> 00:49:15,900
people crumble.

674
00:49:15,900 --> 00:49:21,140
It doesn't matter if you were a D one athlete or NFL player, it's challenging man.

675
00:49:21,140 --> 00:49:27,780
And going through probation and then finally finishing, I got my shield, I got my badge

676
00:49:27,780 --> 00:49:30,700
and now I started my career, right?

677
00:49:30,700 --> 00:49:38,940
Working for very busy stations and the culture is very different as well.

678
00:49:38,940 --> 00:49:41,140
It's, it's not the same as other departments.

679
00:49:41,140 --> 00:49:44,280
The culture has been ingrained for over, over a hundred years.

680
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:49,540
So the stuff you have to understand with the culture is, is very rapid.

681
00:49:49,540 --> 00:49:56,180
And on top of you being in shape and learning at, from a beginner level to advanced level

682
00:49:56,180 --> 00:49:57,940
of firefighting is very challenging.

683
00:49:57,940 --> 00:50:04,780
So I think as I progressed in my career, I learned so much about myself and how I can

684
00:50:04,780 --> 00:50:11,140
show up as a professional and how I can adapt to the, the environment I was working in as

685
00:50:11,140 --> 00:50:12,540
well.

686
00:50:12,540 --> 00:50:17,020
The challenges that came up through that really affected my mental health because I had some

687
00:50:17,020 --> 00:50:21,780
family issues that, that was happening while I even started the drill tower.

688
00:50:21,780 --> 00:50:25,920
So I had to face those things and I kind of pushed them aside thinking, Oh, I'll deal

689
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:27,540
with you later.

690
00:50:27,540 --> 00:50:36,060
And so as this kind of started coming up, you know, a lot of my career stuff was avoid

691
00:50:36,060 --> 00:50:39,540
all of my personal shit and just focus on the job.

692
00:50:39,540 --> 00:50:42,540
And that bit me in the ass later down the road.

693
00:50:42,540 --> 00:50:45,180
And we could talk more about that.

694
00:50:45,180 --> 00:50:48,100
Yeah, let's do it.

695
00:50:48,100 --> 00:50:49,100
Yeah.

696
00:50:49,100 --> 00:50:56,460
So coming to my traumatic brain injury stuff I had at work, I'm so fortunate enough to

697
00:50:56,460 --> 00:51:03,580
have teachers and mentors who have guided me along the way on how to understand my life,

698
00:51:03,580 --> 00:51:05,980
how to understand my consciousness.

699
00:51:05,980 --> 00:51:11,740
And so looking to my traumatic brain injury, my injury that really was the catalyst for

700
00:51:11,740 --> 00:51:18,820
change, I was taught that it's not just the experience that you have that has the catalyst

701
00:51:18,820 --> 00:51:19,820
for change.

702
00:51:19,820 --> 00:51:22,640
This is the stuff leading up to that moment.

703
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:27,580
And so prior to that, you know, I realized I was an alcoholic for 10 plus years, you

704
00:51:27,580 --> 00:51:33,060
know, all my days off I'd be drinking and I would be disassociating.

705
00:51:33,060 --> 00:51:38,180
And so for a long time that disassociativeness within myself really numbed me.

706
00:51:38,180 --> 00:51:43,040
So I was really broken off from the truest essence of who I was.

707
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:50,740
And as all this stuff and these timelines led up from suppressing my true nature of

708
00:51:50,740 --> 00:51:58,540
who I am really caused me to identify myself with an identity that really didn't show up

709
00:51:58,540 --> 00:52:00,940
and to value myself as who I was.

710
00:52:00,940 --> 00:52:06,500
So if that makes sense, if you're a firefighter, we all have this identity around who we are

711
00:52:06,500 --> 00:52:07,500
as firefighters.

712
00:52:07,500 --> 00:52:10,060
But when you go home, that shit doesn't matter.

713
00:52:10,060 --> 00:52:12,220
So I really lost touch.

714
00:52:12,220 --> 00:52:14,940
No one cares, man.

715
00:52:14,940 --> 00:52:19,340
So I really lost touch with when I came home who I was.

716
00:52:19,340 --> 00:52:22,580
And so I really posed this question for people is like, who are you?

717
00:52:22,580 --> 00:52:24,000
Do you know?

718
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:29,500
And that really troubled me as I went through my own catalyst for change.

719
00:52:29,500 --> 00:52:35,900
And so I had to look back on those events and that timeline prior to me getting injured

720
00:52:35,900 --> 00:52:39,900
at work, because that is the stuff.

721
00:52:39,900 --> 00:52:42,340
I was not listening to myself for a very long time.

722
00:52:42,340 --> 00:52:48,500
So when I had this catalyst for change, that's the true awakening that I really needed in

723
00:52:48,500 --> 00:52:53,220
order to make big changes in my life and how I show up for others, how I show up for myself

724
00:52:53,220 --> 00:52:54,820
and my family.

725
00:52:54,820 --> 00:53:02,860
And so that's kind of a great lesson to understand is like taking ownership for the things I

726
00:53:02,860 --> 00:53:04,740
avoided.

727
00:53:04,740 --> 00:53:10,540
And when I had to work through an injury, that's when all hell broke loose and the flood

728
00:53:10,540 --> 00:53:12,220
gates, the levee had broken.

729
00:53:12,220 --> 00:53:20,540
And so all this flood of emotions and thoughts and hypervigilance came through when I had

730
00:53:20,540 --> 00:53:24,580
to sit still at home by myself in isolation.

731
00:53:24,580 --> 00:53:26,300
That was really hard for me.

732
00:53:26,300 --> 00:53:30,560
And that's a common theme for firefighters when you're injured is when you're now injured

733
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:34,900
at home, whether you get a back injury or whenever you're on your back on like a turtle

734
00:53:34,900 --> 00:53:39,700
for eight months, you know, and you don't have the physical activity used to have before

735
00:53:39,700 --> 00:53:43,480
as an outlet to improve your mental health.

736
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:44,480
Now you don't have that.

737
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:49,580
Now you're stuck with this thing, this mind that creates lies and deceit.

738
00:53:49,580 --> 00:53:54,240
And now you're looping with a mental health crisis.

739
00:53:54,240 --> 00:53:58,660
Talk to me about the actual TBI event and then what were your symptoms after that?

740
00:53:58,660 --> 00:54:00,740
What were you struggling with?

741
00:54:00,740 --> 00:54:01,740
Yeah.

742
00:54:01,740 --> 00:54:08,140
So looking into traumatic grand jury and my struggles with it, it's very hard because

743
00:54:08,140 --> 00:54:10,660
it's a silent epidemic.

744
00:54:10,660 --> 00:54:15,820
And my years of skateboarding and going to punk rock shows, I hit my head so many times,

745
00:54:15,820 --> 00:54:20,800
but I've had five significant concussions and this was the fifth.

746
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:26,660
And when you have concussions, the more you get, the more it's difficult to recover from

747
00:54:26,660 --> 00:54:28,220
those injuries.

748
00:54:28,220 --> 00:54:36,940
And so this last one I had on the job really broke me because of the number of traumatic

749
00:54:36,940 --> 00:54:38,820
injury I did have.

750
00:54:38,820 --> 00:54:44,420
And then on top of that, the symptoms I was carrying, it's very subjective for someone

751
00:54:44,420 --> 00:54:49,420
who's dealing with traumatic brain injury because it's referred to as an invisible injury

752
00:54:49,420 --> 00:54:55,020
because you have various symptoms that are distinct distinctly different from other people

753
00:54:55,020 --> 00:54:58,500
who've had traumatic brain injury and so it can affect emotions.

754
00:54:58,500 --> 00:55:00,380
It can affect hormone levels.

755
00:55:00,380 --> 00:55:04,740
It can affect your sleep cycles and it can affect your nervous system response.

756
00:55:04,740 --> 00:55:10,540
And so for me, I was off work for a short amount of time and I thought I was okay.

757
00:55:10,540 --> 00:55:17,100
I went back to work and I went back to work and all my administrative activity I could

758
00:55:17,100 --> 00:55:18,820
have had was gone.

759
00:55:18,820 --> 00:55:20,460
Like I had extreme brain fog.

760
00:55:20,460 --> 00:55:24,900
And so when someone would talk to me, it was hard to retrieve information and cognitively

761
00:55:24,900 --> 00:55:26,380
use it and process it.

762
00:55:26,380 --> 00:55:29,860
So I realized, okay, I got to go back off.

763
00:55:29,860 --> 00:55:40,220
And so my symptoms got worse and what really impacted me was my nervous system and I had

764
00:55:40,220 --> 00:55:44,240
severe anxiety and severe depression.

765
00:55:44,240 --> 00:55:50,700
And so I also had to stop drinking because I had, it would be making my symptoms worse.

766
00:55:50,700 --> 00:55:56,860
So I was white knuckling, quitting my alcoholism habit for 10 plus years.

767
00:55:56,860 --> 00:56:01,180
And on top of that, having a brain injury and then dealing with the mental health issues

768
00:56:01,180 --> 00:56:06,540
I was having, the emotions that really circled me down the drain until I even had suicide

769
00:56:06,540 --> 00:56:09,660
ideation.

770
00:56:09,660 --> 00:56:14,740
With drinking, this is one of the things I think that's not as well understood as it

771
00:56:14,740 --> 00:56:21,540
should be is when you drink even a glass or two, if it's close to bed, that disrupts your

772
00:56:21,540 --> 00:56:22,540
sleep.

773
00:56:22,540 --> 00:56:26,420
So you come back from a 24 or 48, whatever you worked.

774
00:56:26,420 --> 00:56:29,260
And then that evening, which I did all the time, I'm going to have a couple of beers

775
00:56:29,260 --> 00:56:30,260
to unwind.

776
00:56:30,260 --> 00:56:34,380
And I was never a binge drinker, but I would frequently have it in the evening and you

777
00:56:34,380 --> 00:56:37,500
don't realize that you're self-sabotaging your sleep even more.

778
00:56:37,500 --> 00:56:42,580
And then the other crazy thing about TBIs is when you have a TBI is demyelination of

779
00:56:42,580 --> 00:56:43,980
the myelin sheath.

780
00:56:43,980 --> 00:56:47,420
When you don't sleep, there's a demyelination of the myelin sheath.

781
00:56:47,420 --> 00:56:48,420
So I was a martial artist.

782
00:56:48,420 --> 00:56:51,180
I was a stunt man my whole career while I was a firefighter too.

783
00:56:51,180 --> 00:56:55,720
So lots of head trauma, deliberate and accidental.

784
00:56:55,720 --> 00:57:01,500
And then you add in 14 years of busy, busy up-tempo fire station shifts.

785
00:57:01,500 --> 00:57:02,940
You've got this contributing factor.

786
00:57:02,940 --> 00:57:03,940
Then you throw in some alcohol.

787
00:57:03,940 --> 00:57:05,800
Now you've made it even worse.

788
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:08,980
And it's this vicious circle that people aren't even aware of.

789
00:57:08,980 --> 00:57:11,180
Oh, totally.

790
00:57:11,180 --> 00:57:14,620
And I had to learn that the hard way.

791
00:57:14,620 --> 00:57:23,460
I think as I was recovering, I had to educate myself because I was going to, because it

792
00:57:23,460 --> 00:57:32,140
was a worker's comp case, I had to go through doctors through that avenue, which was disturbing.

793
00:57:32,140 --> 00:57:35,860
And disturbing in a sense where I went to three different doctors and the second doctor

794
00:57:35,860 --> 00:57:40,540
actually prescribed me anti-anxiety medication, SSRIs.

795
00:57:40,540 --> 00:57:45,140
And I kept telling him, Hey man, I don't have anxiety from anxiety.

796
00:57:45,140 --> 00:57:48,500
I've never had anxiety in my life until I had a concussion.

797
00:57:48,500 --> 00:57:52,540
And he just shrugged his shoulders and said, go pick up your prescription at the front

798
00:57:52,540 --> 00:57:53,700
desk.

799
00:57:53,700 --> 00:57:56,900
And so that's when I started to take matters into my own hands.

800
00:57:56,900 --> 00:58:00,740
And I started studying traumatic brain injury by myself.

801
00:58:00,740 --> 00:58:06,340
And so I picked up this book called The Concussion Repair Manual by Dr. Dan Engel.

802
00:58:06,340 --> 00:58:13,860
And he explained what traumatic brain injury is, and he was a doctor who had multiple concussions.

803
00:58:13,860 --> 00:58:19,700
And his last concussion left him in a halo where he was in a car accident and survived

804
00:58:19,700 --> 00:58:24,980
and was basically frozen in this halo dealing with traumatic brain injury.

805
00:58:24,980 --> 00:58:27,940
And so he talked about stacking your treatments.

806
00:58:27,940 --> 00:58:32,660
And so I had to learn piece by piece as I would work through the injury.

807
00:58:32,660 --> 00:58:38,700
And now as I educated myself, I was still dealing with severe symptoms where I would

808
00:58:38,700 --> 00:58:42,380
have these panic attacks, where I would be in a catatonic state.

809
00:58:42,380 --> 00:58:47,220
And I was waking up in the middle of the night and it's a deep sweat with my heart rate at

810
00:58:47,220 --> 00:58:49,740
about 100 at like three o'clock in the morning.

811
00:58:49,740 --> 00:58:52,040
That would happen for two months straight.

812
00:58:52,040 --> 00:58:56,060
And so I had to take control of my nervous system dysfunction.

813
00:58:56,060 --> 00:59:01,620
And so going to an acupuncturist who is coaching me about the subtle energy systems of the

814
00:59:01,620 --> 00:59:06,420
body and also understanding how the nervous system works and the organs that were being

815
00:59:06,420 --> 00:59:10,580
affected from where I hit my head and the lay lines of the body.

816
00:59:10,580 --> 00:59:17,620
And so I was really being educated and learning so much about, first of all, the body, how

817
00:59:17,620 --> 00:59:19,140
it's designed.

818
00:59:19,140 --> 00:59:24,100
And if you don't have an understanding of how it's designed, how can you learn to recover

819
00:59:24,100 --> 00:59:26,620
from an injury that is invisible?

820
00:59:26,620 --> 00:59:28,620
Yeah, exactly.

821
00:59:28,620 --> 00:59:33,040
This is what's really scary is you have concussions of which I have many and I have brain fog

822
00:59:33,040 --> 00:59:37,820
and not to mention all the other parts of my body that were kicked that don't work anymore.

823
00:59:37,820 --> 00:59:41,340
But that's something you can work through.

824
00:59:41,340 --> 00:59:45,460
But then you have the more extreme side as well, which is the real kind of hidden piece

825
00:59:45,460 --> 00:59:51,620
of the suicide ideation puzzle, which is the CTE, like the massive brain trauma.

826
00:59:51,620 --> 00:59:58,780
I just had a Navy SEAL, Frank Larkin, on and he lost his son, Brian, to suicide.

827
00:59:58,780 --> 01:00:03,380
And it was again the same thing, Sarah Wilkinson, Chad Wilkinson's widow has been on it.

828
01:00:03,380 --> 01:00:07,500
The number of people I know from the SEAL community that when they did post-mortem,

829
01:00:07,500 --> 01:00:08,860
they found CTE.

830
01:00:08,860 --> 01:00:15,640
So if we're ignoring the trauma impact side, which again, that's underlying, seat deprivation

831
01:00:15,640 --> 01:00:20,300
amplifies that as well in our community, even though we tend not to be here as much.

832
01:00:20,300 --> 01:00:22,740
But I've had drywall fall on my head.

833
01:00:22,740 --> 01:00:23,740
I've had knocks.

834
01:00:23,740 --> 01:00:27,460
I mean, you were walking around a fire engine and clashed heads and had a TBI.

835
01:00:27,460 --> 01:00:30,700
So there is that possibility too.

836
01:00:30,700 --> 01:00:36,260
And if we're not taking into account making sure, checking, considering TBI as part of

837
01:00:36,260 --> 01:00:41,780
the overall mental health conversation, we might drive that patient crazy because you're

838
01:00:41,780 --> 01:00:46,020
going down the mental health path and you're missing the physiological path.

839
01:00:46,020 --> 01:00:48,140
Oh, without a doubt.

840
01:00:48,140 --> 01:00:55,700
I mean, I think after I went through so many dead ends within the Western medical system

841
01:00:55,700 --> 01:01:03,340
and I wasn't getting the help, it really caused me to have even more anxiety that I was feeding

842
01:01:03,340 --> 01:01:04,340
it.

843
01:01:04,340 --> 01:01:05,340
It was feeding my injury even more.

844
01:01:05,340 --> 01:01:11,060
And so I took an effort upon myself to just slow down.

845
01:01:11,060 --> 01:01:15,780
And I had to separate my mind from the actual brain injury, which was an important factor

846
01:01:15,780 --> 01:01:18,820
because the mind I realized was different.

847
01:01:18,820 --> 01:01:23,780
My thoughts were actually feeding the anxiety that would take me down a downward spiral

848
01:01:23,780 --> 01:01:24,980
for the day.

849
01:01:24,980 --> 01:01:31,540
And so I really took it upon myself to focus on how I can overcome that first.

850
01:01:31,540 --> 01:01:34,180
That was something that was in my control.

851
01:01:34,180 --> 01:01:41,780
And so I was determined to be disciplined with my mind and have more of dominion over

852
01:01:41,780 --> 01:01:42,780
my mind.

853
01:01:42,780 --> 01:01:43,780
So I would sit in meditation.

854
01:01:43,780 --> 01:01:48,460
I would sit in my room and just sit in silence for about an hour.

855
01:01:48,460 --> 01:01:50,780
I would practice that every single day.

856
01:01:50,780 --> 01:01:58,460
And so as I began to extrapolate myself from the symptoms, I was learning how to be in

857
01:01:58,460 --> 01:02:03,180
a state of learning what the mind is doing and realizing, oh, it's like, wow, this is

858
01:02:03,180 --> 01:02:09,820
a bit of, this is a game here and I can now overcome this obstacle and then deal with

859
01:02:09,820 --> 01:02:11,220
the symptoms on their own.

860
01:02:11,220 --> 01:02:16,700
So that was taught to me by some of my mentors who came into my path.

861
01:02:16,700 --> 01:02:19,380
And then I was still having symptoms, man.

862
01:02:19,380 --> 01:02:23,580
Like I still had, my nervous system was still out of whack.

863
01:02:23,580 --> 01:02:25,340
And even though I did, it was doing acupuncture.

864
01:02:25,340 --> 01:02:28,660
I started doing a hyperbaric chamber therapy, which was helpful.

865
01:02:28,660 --> 01:02:35,180
I still had like a major factor, it was three fourths of my injury that still needed help.

866
01:02:35,180 --> 01:02:40,040
So my girlfriend at the time, actually she's still my, she's still my girlfriend.

867
01:02:40,040 --> 01:02:44,340
She was doing this medicine called cambo and she was telling me about it.

868
01:02:44,340 --> 01:02:46,220
She's like, Hey, I think you should do this medicine cambo.

869
01:02:46,220 --> 01:02:47,380
It's helped me.

870
01:02:47,380 --> 01:02:53,980
She had dealt with severe depression that was labeled and pathologized as bipolar disorder

871
01:02:53,980 --> 01:02:56,020
ended up being just childhood trauma.

872
01:02:56,020 --> 01:03:00,260
And she was working with cambo and it was helping her with her menstrual cycle and bringing

873
01:03:00,260 --> 01:03:02,700
her body into balance.

874
01:03:02,700 --> 01:03:06,020
And she explained to me, you're going to be with this guy that I've been going to and

875
01:03:06,020 --> 01:03:09,060
he's going to make you, you know, put this medicine on your skin and you're going to

876
01:03:09,060 --> 01:03:10,060
throw up in a bucket.

877
01:03:10,060 --> 01:03:13,620
And so I was like, no, I'm not doing that.

878
01:03:13,620 --> 01:03:18,820
And so, but it got so severe where I kept having these panic attacks that I was like,

879
01:03:18,820 --> 01:03:19,860
I was so desperate.

880
01:03:19,860 --> 01:03:21,740
I was like, Hey, let's try it cambo.

881
01:03:21,740 --> 01:03:28,100
And so I ended up doing cambo and ended up reversing all my symptoms about 90% within

882
01:03:28,100 --> 01:03:31,580
about nine sessions within the medicine.

883
01:03:31,580 --> 01:03:38,940
And so that really changed the ball game for me where I, I, I got my life back and essentially,

884
01:03:38,940 --> 01:03:42,680
you know, and I was able to have all my administrative functions back.

885
01:03:42,680 --> 01:03:48,900
My nervous system got completely recalibrated and my emotional, uh, anxiety and depression

886
01:03:48,900 --> 01:03:50,800
stuff just went away.

887
01:03:50,800 --> 01:03:56,260
And so that's one of the major parts where my life started to really change is when I,

888
01:03:56,260 --> 01:03:58,340
when cambo was introduced into my life.

889
01:03:58,340 --> 01:03:59,340
Amazing.

890
01:03:59,340 --> 01:04:00,340
Yeah.

891
01:04:00,340 --> 01:04:02,500
I've had one of my firefighter friends who's retired.

892
01:04:02,500 --> 01:04:06,400
He went and did a psychedelic retreat and they offer several other things.

893
01:04:06,400 --> 01:04:11,620
And cambo was one he did several times and the purge that he got, though, you know, what

894
01:04:11,620 --> 01:04:16,540
didn't sound like it was very much fun, the actual mechanical action of it, but over and

895
01:04:16,540 --> 01:04:20,700
over again, I just hear people say like, it's just like I shed my skin.

896
01:04:20,700 --> 01:04:23,460
It was just so liberating.

897
01:04:23,460 --> 01:04:24,460
Yeah.

898
01:04:24,460 --> 01:04:27,740
And, uh, you know, I didn't know I was so desperate.

899
01:04:27,740 --> 01:04:28,740
I didn't care.

900
01:04:28,740 --> 01:04:30,660
You know, I, I, I needed anything.

901
01:04:30,660 --> 01:04:34,340
So I was just reaching for something to save me.

902
01:04:34,340 --> 01:04:39,420
Luckily, through the medicine of cambo, I realized like this was an intelligent medicine

903
01:04:39,420 --> 01:04:45,260
that's been used for thousands of years by all these different tribes in the rainforest.

904
01:04:45,260 --> 01:04:50,060
And as I started to learn about this medicine, there was a scientific factor to it as well.

905
01:04:50,060 --> 01:04:55,620
These, these peptides in the medicine was going into the cell, the cells of my body

906
01:04:55,620 --> 01:05:03,220
and recalibrating at a cellular cellular level, how to bring the body into balance.

907
01:05:03,220 --> 01:05:05,180
And it was truly amazing.

908
01:05:05,180 --> 01:05:09,020
And so as I was working through it, different viruses that I held dormant in my body were

909
01:05:09,020 --> 01:05:10,020
released.

910
01:05:10,020 --> 01:05:15,740
Uh, I had like streptococcus virus that was released through my body and all these different

911
01:05:15,740 --> 01:05:21,340
amazing factors was bringing my body into this harmonious state.

912
01:05:21,340 --> 01:05:26,640
Even releasing parasites, heavy metals and candida overgrowth from my body was another

913
01:05:26,640 --> 01:05:28,320
factor that the medicine provided.

914
01:05:28,320 --> 01:05:37,820
So it took my biological structure and just ringed it out of all the toxins and even energetically,

915
01:05:37,820 --> 01:05:39,300
the things I was carrying.

916
01:05:39,300 --> 01:05:44,140
Um, and, and what's amazing is as I was working through the medicine, emotions came up and

917
01:05:44,140 --> 01:05:52,140
so it broke me to these walls I carried emotionally and it was able to bring those walls down

918
01:05:52,140 --> 01:05:58,980
and show me these dormant wounds I was carrying as well towards betrayal with my father and

919
01:05:58,980 --> 01:06:00,740
abandonment with my mother.

920
01:06:00,740 --> 01:06:06,820
And I had to face those in through the medicine of, of Campbell as well, which truly liberated

921
01:06:06,820 --> 01:06:09,220
me at an emotional state.

922
01:06:09,220 --> 01:06:13,460
And it really brought perspective and opened my heart up.

923
01:06:13,460 --> 01:06:19,420
And this medicine, it teaches you how to surrender in a space of heart opening.

924
01:06:19,420 --> 01:06:20,660
It speaks to your heart space.

925
01:06:20,660 --> 01:06:22,860
It's not through logical thinking.

926
01:06:22,860 --> 01:06:27,140
And so if you think you're going to try to defeat Campbell and navigate from a cognitive

927
01:06:27,140 --> 01:06:29,700
analytical state, it doesn't work that way.

928
01:06:29,700 --> 01:06:32,720
It makes you go into the feeling center of who you are.

929
01:06:32,720 --> 01:06:38,340
And so it really brings this, this essence of who you are and it has you harness this

930
01:06:38,340 --> 01:06:46,220
warrior spirit within, which really has this gravitational pull towards who you truly are.

931
01:06:46,220 --> 01:06:51,980
And you're able to really devour anything in your path that you want to accomplish as

932
01:06:51,980 --> 01:06:53,860
far as your own personal growth.

933
01:06:53,860 --> 01:06:59,580
Well, you mentioned about, you know, opening the walls coming down and you seeing some

934
01:06:59,580 --> 01:07:00,700
of the things from early life.

935
01:07:00,700 --> 01:07:04,080
And I think this is a really important place to stay for a moment.

936
01:07:04,080 --> 01:07:08,260
When we talk about mental health and the first responders, the one elephant in the room is

937
01:07:08,260 --> 01:07:09,260
sleep deprivation.

938
01:07:09,260 --> 01:07:13,060
The other one is what happened to us before we put the uniform on and they're like, well,

939
01:07:13,060 --> 01:07:15,620
John, you know, he had struggles because he had that fire.

940
01:07:15,620 --> 01:07:19,660
And James had that extrication and that's why they're going through it.

941
01:07:19,660 --> 01:07:25,580
And we're missing the fact that from, you know, in vitro through to 22, 25 years old,

942
01:07:25,580 --> 01:07:28,820
we had an entire life that also is going to contribute.

943
01:07:28,820 --> 01:07:33,980
So with this, you know, wise lens that you have now, what were some of the elements that

944
01:07:33,980 --> 01:07:41,120
you kind of unpacked early life that became a contributing factor to you struggling when

945
01:07:41,120 --> 01:07:45,580
you were actually in uniform?

946
01:07:45,580 --> 01:07:47,220
That's a compact question.

947
01:07:47,220 --> 01:07:53,180
And I like to go back to what I had mentioned before is that trauma is subjective.

948
01:07:53,180 --> 01:07:57,580
And I just had this conversation with my girlfriend yesterday because we had a dog and we had

949
01:07:57,580 --> 01:08:02,720
to put him down because he attacked me twice and attacked her the last time.

950
01:08:02,720 --> 01:08:07,120
And so she's traumatized from the dog attacking her and I'm not.

951
01:08:07,120 --> 01:08:10,780
So we talked about like, well, how come I got attacked twice?

952
01:08:10,780 --> 01:08:13,580
He almost took my thumb off the last time.

953
01:08:13,580 --> 01:08:16,700
And yet, you know, I'm not afraid of dogs still.

954
01:08:16,700 --> 01:08:20,140
And she's very timid and fearful around dogs.

955
01:08:20,140 --> 01:08:21,340
And so we talked about this.

956
01:08:21,340 --> 01:08:27,140
It was a great topic of discussion because something can affect someone differently.

957
01:08:27,140 --> 01:08:33,460
And so we have to understand what trauma is and the labeling of it.

958
01:08:33,460 --> 01:08:37,240
It's like this, it's not this shell shock, you know, anymore.

959
01:08:37,240 --> 01:08:39,140
It's not these greater events that happen.

960
01:08:39,140 --> 01:08:43,940
Sometimes those can be deteriorating to someone's mental health, but sometimes it doesn't affect

961
01:08:43,940 --> 01:08:44,940
anyone.

962
01:08:44,940 --> 01:08:49,220
Someone could have 10 shell shock moments in their life when they're at war, they're

963
01:08:49,220 --> 01:08:51,540
at fires and it doesn't affect them.

964
01:08:51,540 --> 01:08:52,940
So what is it?

965
01:08:52,940 --> 01:08:54,560
You know, what is trauma?

966
01:08:54,560 --> 01:08:59,820
And so I really believe that trauma is a severing or a disconnection from the truest form of

967
01:08:59,820 --> 01:09:01,300
yourself.

968
01:09:01,300 --> 01:09:03,680
And so that's one part.

969
01:09:03,680 --> 01:09:05,460
And then the other part is emotional wounding.

970
01:09:05,460 --> 01:09:10,180
A lot of times subconscious fears that present and emotional wounding that happens when you're

971
01:09:10,180 --> 01:09:17,980
a child that begin to kind of alter your way of living and it affects your relationships

972
01:09:17,980 --> 01:09:18,980
later in life.

973
01:09:18,980 --> 01:09:23,380
It affects the way you are as a parent later in life and it affects your overall look of

974
01:09:23,380 --> 01:09:24,380
life.

975
01:09:24,380 --> 01:09:31,700
And so for me, it was, I had built up walls to protect myself because I never wanted to

976
01:09:31,700 --> 01:09:32,700
be hurt.

977
01:09:32,700 --> 01:09:34,100
I didn't want to look at those wounds.

978
01:09:34,100 --> 01:09:38,760
And so what was beautiful about cambo is that it breaks down those walls.

979
01:09:38,760 --> 01:09:45,060
It's like a sledgehammer that just tears away at those walls you created because it is holding

980
01:09:45,060 --> 01:09:48,900
you back from your personal evolution.

981
01:09:48,900 --> 01:09:56,220
And so as I was working through my own issues, it had a lot to do with understanding forgiveness

982
01:09:56,220 --> 01:10:02,680
and how to let go and surrendering to that space of what it actually was, my personal

983
01:10:02,680 --> 01:10:04,740
involvement with it.

984
01:10:04,740 --> 01:10:12,340
And that's kind of like the understanding on how I treated the medicine with my emotional

985
01:10:12,340 --> 01:10:16,420
wounding, but it was essential to my overall health.

986
01:10:16,420 --> 01:10:20,700
And so cambo doesn't care what you have going on, what you're thinking about.

987
01:10:20,700 --> 01:10:24,900
It's going to go from whatever's out of balance and bring it into harmony.

988
01:10:24,900 --> 01:10:28,340
That's what's beautiful about it.

989
01:10:28,340 --> 01:10:32,560
When I look at all the different people that have been on here, the journeys they've

990
01:10:32,560 --> 01:10:37,180
led, some of the ones that really struggled more often than not, there was a lot of suppressed

991
01:10:37,180 --> 01:10:39,180
childhood struggles.

992
01:10:39,180 --> 01:10:44,180
And when I look at my journey, even though I had the highest of highs and the lowest

993
01:10:44,180 --> 01:10:51,460
of lows, I never got to that suicide ideation spot despite divorces and all kinds of things.

994
01:10:51,460 --> 01:10:53,860
And so I would ask why.

995
01:10:53,860 --> 01:10:56,080
Why I'm no different than anyone else.

996
01:10:56,080 --> 01:11:00,460
But when I look at my childhood, for every trauma, and there were a lot, I almost died

997
01:11:00,460 --> 01:11:03,980
in a house fire when I was four, for example.

998
01:11:03,980 --> 01:11:05,540
There was also, I grew up on a farm.

999
01:11:05,540 --> 01:11:07,900
My dad was a veterinary surgeon, so he was healing animals.

1000
01:11:07,900 --> 01:11:13,900
We ate around a big dining room, kitchen table, every single evening meal.

1001
01:11:13,900 --> 01:11:16,660
I was around blood and guts helping my dad operate.

1002
01:11:16,660 --> 01:11:19,880
I was in nature, I was in fresh air, I was getting my hands dirty.

1003
01:11:19,880 --> 01:11:22,500
So all the things that we know are healing.

1004
01:11:22,500 --> 01:11:27,740
So the only difference between me and someone who found themselves staring at a 45 is that

1005
01:11:27,740 --> 01:11:35,540
I was able by the pure, winning the roulette, whereas where I was born, who I was born into,

1006
01:11:35,540 --> 01:11:41,040
that as I went along, everything that hurt, something else kind of helped it.

1007
01:11:41,040 --> 01:11:43,380
And it forges resilience, I think.

1008
01:11:43,380 --> 01:11:49,020
And when you look at that trauma conversation, like you said, it might be something acute.

1009
01:11:49,020 --> 01:11:53,020
It might be death by a thousand cuts, which is what gets to most of our first responders.

1010
01:11:53,020 --> 01:11:56,780
Most of us were not on 9-11 or the Vegas shooting.

1011
01:11:56,780 --> 01:11:59,500
But it's whether it's processed or not.

1012
01:11:59,500 --> 01:12:04,380
And that might be through a religious organization.

1013
01:12:04,380 --> 01:12:06,860
It might be through a psychedelic, whatever it is.

1014
01:12:06,860 --> 01:12:11,660
But as you're going through, if you're not processing and you're burying it down, that

1015
01:12:11,660 --> 01:12:14,420
foundation becomes fractured.

1016
01:12:14,420 --> 01:12:17,860
And again, I'm saying that not as a judgmental thing, but a compassionate thing.

1017
01:12:17,860 --> 01:12:22,660
If you've got to deal with your trauma as you went along because of the cause that you

1018
01:12:22,660 --> 01:12:26,600
were dealt in a positive way, you're forging resilience as you go along.

1019
01:12:26,600 --> 01:12:31,400
If it's suppressed down, and there's a Mexican proverb that says, they tried to bury us,

1020
01:12:31,400 --> 01:12:33,340
they didn't know that we were seeds.

1021
01:12:33,340 --> 01:12:36,280
So you're pushing that down, but it's not being addressed.

1022
01:12:36,280 --> 01:12:38,140
It is a fracture to your foundation.

1023
01:12:38,140 --> 01:12:41,740
But the beautiful, the good news is that when it finally rears its ugly head, if you're

1024
01:12:41,740 --> 01:12:47,020
able to deal with it then through whatever tools that work for you, that will still become

1025
01:12:47,020 --> 01:12:49,220
resilience, in my opinion.

1026
01:12:49,220 --> 01:12:53,940
So when you look at you now versus you when you were drinking, and this sounds like a

1027
01:12:53,940 --> 01:13:01,780
silly question, but I think it needs to be asked because it shows the hope of healing.

1028
01:13:01,780 --> 01:13:07,760
What have you seen as far as your resilience, not just overcoming a TBI or overcoming addiction,

1029
01:13:07,760 --> 01:13:12,380
your resilience as a human being now versus a few years ago?

1030
01:13:12,380 --> 01:13:18,460
Well, I think resilience is a very strange topic.

1031
01:13:18,460 --> 01:13:24,260
And it's like the famous expression, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

1032
01:13:24,260 --> 01:13:30,300
But is that a belief system we're upholding to believe that we need challenges in order

1033
01:13:30,300 --> 01:13:32,220
to grow?

1034
01:13:32,220 --> 01:13:34,420
Is that true?

1035
01:13:34,420 --> 01:13:40,980
And that's something as a humanitarian scale of belief systems we have to look at because

1036
01:13:40,980 --> 01:13:46,020
I don't really truly believe we need challenges to grow anymore.

1037
01:13:46,020 --> 01:13:51,340
I was a perfectionist and I always strived for greatness.

1038
01:13:51,340 --> 01:13:56,680
And yet that was my own masochistic way of how I punished myself.

1039
01:13:56,680 --> 01:14:00,500
And so when I would punish myself, I thought I was making myself resilient, whether it

1040
01:14:00,500 --> 01:14:07,080
was through workouts, whether it was through trying to challenge myself with just everything

1041
01:14:07,080 --> 01:14:09,700
I could have gotten my hands on.

1042
01:14:09,700 --> 01:14:15,340
And I kind of lost perspective on letting the natural flow of things come into my life

1043
01:14:15,340 --> 01:14:18,220
and honoring natural order.

1044
01:14:18,220 --> 01:14:24,880
And this is a great way to discuss because firefighters are designed to challenge ourselves

1045
01:14:24,880 --> 01:14:28,360
and put ourselves in challenging experiences.

1046
01:14:28,360 --> 01:14:33,440
So I really believe I had to change perspective.

1047
01:14:33,440 --> 01:14:37,480
And because when you come into your life, the moment you change your perspective on

1048
01:14:37,480 --> 01:14:43,220
something is a way of liberating yourself off the consciousness and the way we think

1049
01:14:43,220 --> 01:14:45,100
about things.

1050
01:14:45,100 --> 01:14:47,260
And Campbell was a very challenging experience.

1051
01:14:47,260 --> 01:14:51,740
I would say it is one of the top challenging experiences I've ever had to endure in my

1052
01:14:51,740 --> 01:14:53,020
life.

1053
01:14:53,020 --> 01:14:57,500
And yet it brought me to the essence of who I was and it broke down those walls, but that's

1054
01:14:57,500 --> 01:15:01,500
what I needed at the time in order to get there.

1055
01:15:01,500 --> 01:15:08,780
And now that I've been able to see things from a bird's eye view and a zoomed out perspective

1056
01:15:08,780 --> 01:15:16,260
from a different vista, I'm able to open my heart more and live my life in that space,

1057
01:15:16,260 --> 01:15:23,520
which allows me to navigate my life from pushing away the analytical mind because the analytical

1058
01:15:23,520 --> 01:15:29,040
mind is going to get involved and disturb my true path of life.

1059
01:15:29,040 --> 01:15:31,860
And so that's really what brought me into my way of living.

1060
01:15:31,860 --> 01:15:44,700
And so it's exponentially catapulted me into how I show up and unraveling this epidemic,

1061
01:15:44,700 --> 01:15:46,940
this crisis we're in right now.

1062
01:15:46,940 --> 01:15:50,260
And so there's different avenues I've went into.

1063
01:15:50,260 --> 01:15:55,340
And one of them was even understanding that some people have such severe trauma that they

1064
01:15:55,340 --> 01:15:57,500
need things like plant medicine.

1065
01:15:57,500 --> 01:16:03,380
And now I started to study with people who have done plant medicine and the master plants

1066
01:16:03,380 --> 01:16:09,780
that are Iboga and Ayahuasca, who people need to go do those medicines.

1067
01:16:09,780 --> 01:16:16,300
It may not be for everyone, but these medicines take you to the essence of why something happened

1068
01:16:16,300 --> 01:16:19,920
in your life and gives you the understanding that supports it.

1069
01:16:19,920 --> 01:16:21,220
And then you can release it.

1070
01:16:21,220 --> 01:16:27,340
And then it has these beautiful ways of understanding the spiritual side of things where people

1071
01:16:27,340 --> 01:16:34,020
are healing their problems on the spiritual side and then coming into this body and being

1072
01:16:34,020 --> 01:16:35,700
free of it.

1073
01:16:35,700 --> 01:16:39,940
And Campbell was actually supportive for those two medicines, Iboga and Ayahuasca.

1074
01:16:39,940 --> 01:16:43,500
So as I was involved with Campbell, I became a practitioner.

1075
01:16:43,500 --> 01:16:45,140
I started serving this medicine.

1076
01:16:45,140 --> 01:16:47,040
I've been serving it for the last two and a half years.

1077
01:16:47,040 --> 01:16:52,740
And then so the plant medicine thing came into the paradigm and it became so fascinating

1078
01:16:52,740 --> 01:16:59,260
to me because I've seen people heal through these medicines and it's actual medicine has

1079
01:16:59,260 --> 01:17:01,580
been used for thousands of years.

1080
01:17:01,580 --> 01:17:07,260
So I had to take a great look at the facilitators and I had different facilitators on the podcast

1081
01:17:07,260 --> 01:17:10,700
where we talked about these discussions.

1082
01:17:10,700 --> 01:17:15,900
And it's really blown my mind of how these medicines have helped traumatic brain injury,

1083
01:17:15,900 --> 01:17:16,900
number one.

1084
01:17:16,900 --> 01:17:22,420
I know Navy SEALs, it's a huge factor of them going to do Ibogaine and going to do Iboga.

1085
01:17:22,420 --> 01:17:31,180
And so it really opened my eyes to actual medicine and understanding this kaleidoscope

1086
01:17:31,180 --> 01:17:34,260
of this crisis that we're dealing with.

1087
01:17:34,260 --> 01:17:39,380
The way you had mentioned it, the death of a thousand paper cuts, that shit hurts, man,

1088
01:17:39,380 --> 01:17:41,380
after you're covered in those cuts.

1089
01:17:41,380 --> 01:17:49,140
So how do we go about going into those phases of unraveling all that stuff?

1090
01:17:49,140 --> 01:17:55,660
And then there's things like somatic release, the body keeps the score was a huge book that

1091
01:17:55,660 --> 01:17:59,040
people have read and have been trying to understand.

1092
01:17:59,040 --> 01:18:03,260
And so the fascia of the body and understanding that has been a huge thing for me and me doing

1093
01:18:03,260 --> 01:18:08,780
my own healing work through my body with somatic work has been huge.

1094
01:18:08,780 --> 01:18:13,600
And understanding things in a subconscious level, doing things like EMDR and going into

1095
01:18:13,600 --> 01:18:18,700
the subconscious of what's lying dormant or underneath the surface is something we have

1096
01:18:18,700 --> 01:18:25,580
to address because you may think that you're walking through this life, just living a Mickey

1097
01:18:25,580 --> 01:18:32,580
Mouse life, but subconsciously you're holding these belief systems and these values and

1098
01:18:32,580 --> 01:18:36,820
the laws you create with your values that don't really support your way of living the

1099
01:18:36,820 --> 01:18:39,460
way you're supposed to be living.

1100
01:18:39,460 --> 01:18:42,460
You mentioned about suicide ideation.

1101
01:18:42,460 --> 01:18:44,020
How close did you get?

1102
01:18:44,020 --> 01:18:48,220
Where were you at the darkest point?

1103
01:18:48,220 --> 01:18:55,540
I would just have intrusive thoughts and I would just be sitting on my couch and there

1104
01:18:55,540 --> 01:18:58,700
would just be this thought that would come through like, Hey, why don't you just fucking

1105
01:18:58,700 --> 01:19:00,700
end it?

1106
01:19:00,700 --> 01:19:07,480
And that was really disturbing for me because I never had experienced that before.

1107
01:19:07,480 --> 01:19:15,780
And so I started fighting it and I realized after a long wrestling match with that thought

1108
01:19:15,780 --> 01:19:20,620
that you can't fight the thought.

1109
01:19:20,620 --> 01:19:23,220
Once you start fighting it, you start feeding it.

1110
01:19:23,220 --> 01:19:28,340
And so I had to be neutral with the idea of killing myself.

1111
01:19:28,340 --> 01:19:35,820
And once I went neutral into the idea of killing myself, I had to sit with how I felt about

1112
01:19:35,820 --> 01:19:36,940
it.

1113
01:19:36,940 --> 01:19:43,660
And when you go into the vehicle of the emotional body, you start to really understand truth.

1114
01:19:43,660 --> 01:19:46,980
And as I went into that idea, there was a lot of fear that came up.

1115
01:19:46,980 --> 01:19:49,660
The emotion that was supporting it was fear.

1116
01:19:49,660 --> 01:19:56,420
And so I always like to refer to fear as like the false illusions that we create for ourselves.

1117
01:19:56,420 --> 01:19:57,620
They're not true.

1118
01:19:57,620 --> 01:20:03,520
And so as I went underneath the fear, I really felt a lot of grief, man, and sadness.

1119
01:20:03,520 --> 01:20:09,620
And once I was able to understand that sadness, I understood that wasn't true.

1120
01:20:09,620 --> 01:20:15,100
And I was able to sit with what rung true from that point on and what resonated with

1121
01:20:15,100 --> 01:20:16,340
me.

1122
01:20:16,340 --> 01:20:22,620
And that became a practice that I had to deal with everything else in my life and to understand

1123
01:20:22,620 --> 01:20:28,500
that relative truth that I carried within me and what really resonated and just kind

1124
01:20:28,500 --> 01:20:39,100
of hit a chord within me that had that feeling of what is false, what's my reality and how

1125
01:20:39,100 --> 01:20:41,380
I want to feed it.

1126
01:20:41,380 --> 01:20:44,540
It's interesting you're talking about reality because there's a question I ask a lot of

1127
01:20:44,540 --> 01:20:46,500
people if they've been to that place.

1128
01:20:46,500 --> 01:20:52,740
And it's so important to make this common conversation because when you do a thousand

1129
01:20:52,740 --> 01:20:57,620
interviews, the Venn diagram spits out some pretty hard truths.

1130
01:20:57,620 --> 01:21:03,180
And one, if you think about when we were young, you're younger than me, but that kind of era,

1131
01:21:03,180 --> 01:21:07,220
we talk about suicide, like, oh, it's selfish, it's the cowards, how could they think about

1132
01:21:07,220 --> 01:21:08,660
your kids?

1133
01:21:08,660 --> 01:21:14,580
And then you listen to hundreds of people that were there, not even ideation, like right

1134
01:21:14,580 --> 01:21:15,580
there.

1135
01:21:15,580 --> 01:21:18,180
And I've had people that literally went through their attempt and they survived on the show,

1136
01:21:18,180 --> 01:21:21,260
jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge, shot themselves.

1137
01:21:21,260 --> 01:21:29,260
And over and over and over again, there is this absolute belief at that moment that they

1138
01:21:29,260 --> 01:21:35,140
are the reason for their family's pain and that sense of burdensome.

1139
01:21:35,140 --> 01:21:38,700
And when you kind of take a step back, you start to realize when you're talking about

1140
01:21:38,700 --> 01:21:43,740
truth that the body at that point of the brain, excuse me, is so miswired that their reality

1141
01:21:43,740 --> 01:21:48,940
is completely distorted because a healthy brain would be like, well, if you kill yourself,

1142
01:21:48,940 --> 01:21:51,140
now you're going to make your wife and kids even more sad.

1143
01:21:51,140 --> 01:21:53,060
It doesn't make any sense.

1144
01:21:53,060 --> 01:21:58,140
But to a person in crisis, someone who signed on a dotted line saying I would die for a

1145
01:21:58,140 --> 01:22:00,940
complete stranger when I'm in my uniform.

1146
01:22:00,940 --> 01:22:06,500
And now they truly believe because of sleep deprivation, organizational stress, unaddressed

1147
01:22:06,500 --> 01:22:12,900
trauma, the side effects of psychiatric meds, alcohol, blah, blah, blah.

1148
01:22:12,900 --> 01:22:19,340
That's taken that perfect storm of psychosis to where I believe that my son and my wife

1149
01:22:19,340 --> 01:22:22,060
would be better off if I wasn't here anymore.

1150
01:22:22,060 --> 01:22:23,960
That would stop their pain.

1151
01:22:23,960 --> 01:22:28,500
I don't hear that conversation often apart from the people that have actually been in

1152
01:22:28,500 --> 01:22:29,580
that place.

1153
01:22:29,580 --> 01:22:33,180
So did you have an element of burdensome yourself?

1154
01:22:33,180 --> 01:22:36,980
And then have you heard that from people on your show or friends that have reached out

1155
01:22:36,980 --> 01:22:38,980
to you that were in that dark place?

1156
01:22:38,980 --> 01:22:44,660
Yeah, I mean, I think it's a trance.

1157
01:22:44,660 --> 01:22:49,700
I was fortunate, like I had mentioned before, some of my mentors and my teachers who were

1158
01:22:49,700 --> 01:22:56,340
guiding me through how to understand consciousness, which really broke it down for me.

1159
01:22:56,340 --> 01:23:05,340
So I think when people come to that stage of their life, a lot of times things are crumbling.

1160
01:23:05,340 --> 01:23:11,340
And so I really believe it's just a season where someone comes into their life where

1161
01:23:11,340 --> 01:23:16,340
that crumbling moment, that unraveling moment of their life has to happen.

1162
01:23:16,340 --> 01:23:19,740
And it doesn't mean that you're meant to see it as the end.

1163
01:23:19,740 --> 01:23:24,940
It's actually the start of a new beginning because that part of you is shedding.

1164
01:23:24,940 --> 01:23:30,600
And so it's actually a moment to be within it and embrace it and to just be truthful

1165
01:23:30,600 --> 01:23:31,600
about yourself.

1166
01:23:31,600 --> 01:23:38,740
And that brutal honesty will take you to that step of coming into this rebirth cycle.

1167
01:23:38,740 --> 01:23:43,460
And if we see it like that and seeing it that it's not the end and it's opportunity for

1168
01:23:43,460 --> 01:23:51,600
growth, that is the empowerment that I would love for people to understand.

1169
01:23:51,600 --> 01:23:55,380
And it takes a person to work through that stuff.

1170
01:23:55,380 --> 01:24:00,980
And when they get to that point of understanding, hey, this is a lie.

1171
01:24:00,980 --> 01:24:02,260
I'm not going to follow through with this.

1172
01:24:02,260 --> 01:24:06,580
But for those who have followed through with this, they never had the proper guidance and

1173
01:24:06,580 --> 01:24:08,060
the education.

1174
01:24:08,060 --> 01:24:13,620
And so that's one of the things that I really want to instill is re-educating people and

1175
01:24:13,620 --> 01:24:16,140
the public on consciousness.

1176
01:24:16,140 --> 01:24:22,180
And for someone to go into a belief that they believe that that's the ultimate way of your

1177
01:24:22,180 --> 01:24:27,940
way out, you just have to understand how to look at belief systems now because belief

1178
01:24:27,940 --> 01:24:34,660
systems are supporting the benefactor of why we're doing things.

1179
01:24:34,660 --> 01:24:40,160
And so if you can unravel the belief systems and go underneath that, there's your identity

1180
01:24:40,160 --> 01:24:44,080
and going under why we identify with things.

1181
01:24:44,080 --> 01:24:49,140
That's where you want to get to is the identifications we've set up for ourselves.

1182
01:24:49,140 --> 01:24:54,860
And once you go underneath identifications of who we are, then you are down to the essence

1183
01:24:54,860 --> 01:24:56,780
of who you are.

1184
01:24:56,780 --> 01:25:02,700
And you're able to now see things from a zoomed out perspective and unravel all these things

1185
01:25:02,700 --> 01:25:06,380
that are in alignment with who you are.

1186
01:25:06,380 --> 01:25:14,420
And it takes just a pathway of these simple steps to look at consciousness.

1187
01:25:14,420 --> 01:25:18,420
And because consciousness is going to make its pathway, and this comes from different

1188
01:25:18,420 --> 01:25:24,660
wisdom cultures, particularly through Chinese wisdom culture, they speak on working its

1189
01:25:24,660 --> 01:25:27,980
pathway through the consciousness, through our heart space, it goes through our nervous

1190
01:25:27,980 --> 01:25:31,140
system and it goes through our emotional body.

1191
01:25:31,140 --> 01:25:36,740
And so emotions are essentially the space where you want to enter.

1192
01:25:36,740 --> 01:25:38,180
And that's where you get a lot of your answers.

1193
01:25:38,180 --> 01:25:42,540
It's going to lead you right back up into your consciousness, which is where the real

1194
01:25:42,540 --> 01:25:44,220
healing is at.

1195
01:25:44,220 --> 01:25:49,460
Yeah, I think that's such a deep inner perspective.

1196
01:25:49,460 --> 01:25:51,700
And I think the problem is a lot of people are in crisis.

1197
01:25:51,700 --> 01:25:54,500
And one of the biggest enemies, I think, is alcohol.

1198
01:25:54,500 --> 01:25:58,780
Because as we've all been there where you've spent the evening with a young lady who you

1199
01:25:58,780 --> 01:26:03,820
thought was gorgeous the night before and you wake up and you're like, oh, I don't think

1200
01:26:03,820 --> 01:26:05,080
I'm going to be seeing her again.

1201
01:26:05,080 --> 01:26:06,300
It was alcohol.

1202
01:26:06,300 --> 01:26:10,020
If you were stone cold sober, you never would have done that and vice versa, men and women.

1203
01:26:10,020 --> 01:26:11,160
And this is the problem.

1204
01:26:11,160 --> 01:26:15,660
You hear a lot of times that these from the people that survived their attempt, the alcohol

1205
01:26:15,660 --> 01:26:17,420
was kind of blurring that.

1206
01:26:17,420 --> 01:26:21,740
So you've got someone in psychosis, they're sleep deprived, they're drinking.

1207
01:26:21,740 --> 01:26:25,980
There's a shame and guilt put on suicide as well, which doesn't help.

1208
01:26:25,980 --> 01:26:29,960
Because if you look at that, Ms. Wired, it actually is a very selfless, courageous act

1209
01:26:29,960 --> 01:26:30,960
at that moment.

1210
01:26:30,960 --> 01:26:31,960
It's wrong.

1211
01:26:31,960 --> 01:26:33,580
It's a psychotic moment.

1212
01:26:33,580 --> 01:26:35,740
But at that moment, they're not being cowards.

1213
01:26:35,740 --> 01:26:38,660
They're not running from something they think they're fixing something.

1214
01:26:38,660 --> 01:26:42,900
But when you add in the alcohol, you add in the sleep deprivation, now you're compounding

1215
01:26:42,900 --> 01:26:43,900
these issues.

1216
01:26:43,900 --> 01:26:47,020
And then God forbid if the psych meds that are messing with your mind too.

1217
01:26:47,020 --> 01:26:51,340
So unpacking all these elements, which is why I'm so passionate about sleep deprivation,

1218
01:26:51,340 --> 01:26:53,200
and that's one we can fucking fix.

1219
01:26:53,200 --> 01:26:56,980
We can give people more rest and recovery, so they're not so sleep deprived.

1220
01:26:56,980 --> 01:27:00,660
If they're at home more, hopefully they won't drink as much, their families will be more

1221
01:27:00,660 --> 01:27:01,660
intact.

1222
01:27:01,660 --> 01:27:05,260
So we can take away some of these contributing factors.

1223
01:27:05,260 --> 01:27:10,100
And then as you said, if you have clarity of thought, you begin this journey of self

1224
01:27:10,100 --> 01:27:16,460
exploration and unpacking the shadow self and what it was telling you to do.

1225
01:27:16,460 --> 01:27:19,820
Yeah, dude, you bring up a good point.

1226
01:27:19,820 --> 01:27:22,300
And you really have to meet people where they're at.

1227
01:27:22,300 --> 01:27:29,620
If they're in a severe crisis, like something so severe as someone just circling the drain,

1228
01:27:29,620 --> 01:27:30,940
there's help man.

1229
01:27:30,940 --> 01:27:33,620
And the only thing you need to do is just call someone.

1230
01:27:33,620 --> 01:27:38,660
And that's why I truly believe the peer support group program is the best thing for that.

1231
01:27:38,660 --> 01:27:43,940
Because when someone is in crisis, they don't want to call a doctor, a psychologist.

1232
01:27:43,940 --> 01:27:48,200
They definitely don't want to call 911, especially if you're a first responder.

1233
01:27:48,200 --> 01:27:55,620
So the peer support group program is really a huge piece to assisting this mental health

1234
01:27:55,620 --> 01:28:00,920
crisis for these communities of first responders, because they understand most of these peer

1235
01:28:00,920 --> 01:28:04,280
support members have been there already.

1236
01:28:04,280 --> 01:28:10,800
And so if I'm a peer supporter myself, and so I understand if I end up talking to someone,

1237
01:28:10,800 --> 01:28:15,700
and this person is going through a divorce or whatever, I know someone else who I can

1238
01:28:15,700 --> 01:28:20,360
call if I'm not dealing with that same wavelength of what that person is dealing with.

1239
01:28:20,360 --> 01:28:26,140
And so it's about the people, it's about us, the people that understand each other, that

1240
01:28:26,140 --> 01:28:28,460
cultural competence.

1241
01:28:28,460 --> 01:28:35,220
And that is one of the major components for this process of support is we want to meet

1242
01:28:35,220 --> 01:28:41,420
people where they're at, and how they resonate within this blue collar job where you don't

1243
01:28:41,420 --> 01:28:42,980
get sleep.

1244
01:28:42,980 --> 01:28:47,020
And we've had this culture of drinking, it's like we all get it, man.

1245
01:28:47,020 --> 01:28:51,820
So it's nice and refreshing for us to have that program.

1246
01:28:51,820 --> 01:28:55,860
So I really, I mentioned peer support all the time.

1247
01:28:55,860 --> 01:29:03,740
It's so important for our members because it's designed for us, the people, the ones

1248
01:29:03,740 --> 01:29:11,800
who are in the mud, just doing this work as a unification whole.

1249
01:29:11,800 --> 01:29:13,340
So let's get to the podcast.

1250
01:29:13,340 --> 01:29:15,620
You have this amazing journey.

1251
01:29:15,620 --> 01:29:19,820
You've talked about some of the tools you use from Kambo to meditation and some of the

1252
01:29:19,820 --> 01:29:22,100
kind of Eastern philosophies as well.

1253
01:29:22,100 --> 01:29:26,900
What made you start the podcast and talk to me about the journey that's taken you on?

1254
01:29:26,900 --> 01:29:36,100
Yeah, so we had a series of members from our department have their own demise, and it was

1255
01:29:36,100 --> 01:29:42,460
all mental health that people were dealing with.

1256
01:29:42,460 --> 01:29:47,860
It was like, I think it was three deaths within the amount of a year.

1257
01:29:47,860 --> 01:29:55,060
And so that really shook me because I'd just gotten back to work from my injury, and I

1258
01:29:55,060 --> 01:29:59,700
had went through all this stuff and I didn't see much happening.

1259
01:29:59,700 --> 01:30:06,700
There was so much administrative malarkey happening to where nothing was getting done.

1260
01:30:06,700 --> 01:30:11,460
And I really wanted this message to get out that you're not alone.

1261
01:30:11,460 --> 01:30:18,740
And speaking on my behalf of my own struggles from a first person perspective and people

1262
01:30:18,740 --> 01:30:26,940
hearing my own openness and transparency, for people to just realize there is hope and

1263
01:30:26,940 --> 01:30:30,540
there's methods that we can understand ourselves.

1264
01:30:30,540 --> 01:30:33,040
And so I think that's why it started.

1265
01:30:33,040 --> 01:30:38,380
And as I was working through some of the kinks of starting a podcast, it took a lot of work

1266
01:30:38,380 --> 01:30:40,180
and a lot of effort.

1267
01:30:40,180 --> 01:30:48,940
So it really took off from it being more of a platform of truth, and just hearing everyone's

1268
01:30:48,940 --> 01:30:54,780
perspectives from people's personal life stories who have overcome massive hurdles in their

1269
01:30:54,780 --> 01:30:57,100
life and they have overcome it.

1270
01:30:57,100 --> 01:31:04,300
And taking us as a whole to understand all this stuff, because there's so many benefactors

1271
01:31:04,300 --> 01:31:07,940
that's happening right now.

1272
01:31:07,940 --> 01:31:12,180
There's the fact that firefighters as men have low testosterone.

1273
01:31:12,180 --> 01:31:14,300
That's a huge factor we had to listen to.

1274
01:31:14,300 --> 01:31:16,500
It's just the deprivation, by the way.

1275
01:31:16,500 --> 01:31:18,960
Yeah, it's sleep deprivation, man.

1276
01:31:18,960 --> 01:31:21,180
It is sleep deprivation entirely.

1277
01:31:21,180 --> 01:31:23,580
But that affects your mental health.

1278
01:31:23,580 --> 01:31:30,500
And so we have to look at this whole part of the structure and illuminate that there

1279
01:31:30,500 --> 01:31:32,020
is so much going on here.

1280
01:31:32,020 --> 01:31:34,980
There's not one answer to try to fix this.

1281
01:31:34,980 --> 01:31:40,740
And I've just seen so many people reach out and how it's helped them.

1282
01:31:40,740 --> 01:31:45,660
And one of the major things is talking about relationships and your home life outside of

1283
01:31:45,660 --> 01:31:49,980
being a firefighter is huge, man.

1284
01:31:49,980 --> 01:31:55,740
That is one of the major themes that people's home lives just tear apart from having this

1285
01:31:55,740 --> 01:31:57,580
type of a career.

1286
01:31:57,580 --> 01:32:04,020
And just to hear from people having the same categories of what they're dealing with, it

1287
01:32:04,020 --> 01:32:13,260
brings more of like a sense of hope and prosperity to break through these old paradigms, if that

1288
01:32:13,260 --> 01:32:14,260
makes sense.

1289
01:32:14,260 --> 01:32:15,260
No, it does.

1290
01:32:15,260 --> 01:32:18,820
And what I found when it comes to, for example, a sleep conversation, oh, well, they just

1291
01:32:18,820 --> 01:32:21,540
need to sleep better when they're at home.

1292
01:32:21,540 --> 01:32:22,540
Absolutely.

1293
01:32:22,540 --> 01:32:23,800
This is a double edged sword.

1294
01:32:23,800 --> 01:32:29,300
We have to own our own fitness, our nutrition, our mindful practice, our sleep habits.

1295
01:32:29,300 --> 01:32:31,220
I have the blue blocking glasses at night.

1296
01:32:31,220 --> 01:32:32,540
I sleep at 67 degrees.

1297
01:32:32,540 --> 01:32:35,780
I do all the things because I take it seriously.

1298
01:32:35,780 --> 01:32:39,900
But the other side is the environment we work in.

1299
01:32:39,900 --> 01:32:46,460
And the same element that you've put on us, there's a hurricane coming in.

1300
01:32:46,460 --> 01:32:47,460
Make sure you're not drinking.

1301
01:32:47,460 --> 01:32:48,460
We might need to call you in.

1302
01:32:48,460 --> 01:32:51,060
Okay, well, I'm not working, but I'm doing that for you.

1303
01:32:51,060 --> 01:32:52,220
It's the same the other way around.

1304
01:32:52,220 --> 01:32:56,380
All right, it's your turn to create an environment for health for us.

1305
01:32:56,380 --> 01:33:01,340
Because for example, as you touched on, the number of firefighters, either side of 30

1306
01:33:01,340 --> 01:33:05,940
that I know with testosterone in the 200s is insane.

1307
01:33:05,940 --> 01:33:12,900
The reproductive health, the issues with our children, which is again proven in our profession,

1308
01:33:12,900 --> 01:33:17,960
the amount of autism and Down syndrome and miscarriages and infertility, it affects not

1309
01:33:17,960 --> 01:33:20,880
just us, not just our partner, but our children.

1310
01:33:20,880 --> 01:33:27,380
So understanding that every other profession pretty much, including law enforcement, works

1311
01:33:27,380 --> 01:33:33,880
a 40 hour week, nurses, they all work 40 hours and we shrug our shoulders when we suggest

1312
01:33:33,880 --> 01:33:36,680
that maybe we shouldn't work in 56.

1313
01:33:36,680 --> 01:33:37,680
This is the thing.

1314
01:33:37,680 --> 01:33:41,820
If we want to fix all the things, that isn't the only thing, but it needs to be in the

1315
01:33:41,820 --> 01:33:46,020
center of the conversation because you want to fix firefighter cancer, you want to fix

1316
01:33:46,020 --> 01:33:51,060
firefighter divorces, you want to fix firefighter mental health, and you're using the same tactics

1317
01:33:51,060 --> 01:33:55,100
that people use for torture, interrogation, sleep deprivation.

1318
01:33:55,100 --> 01:33:56,100
There's your fucking sign.

1319
01:33:56,100 --> 01:34:00,780
We've got to give you guys more rest and recovery that has to be part of it.

1320
01:34:00,780 --> 01:34:02,580
Otherwise nothing's going to change.

1321
01:34:02,580 --> 01:34:03,580
Absolutely fucking nothing.

1322
01:34:03,580 --> 01:34:04,580
Yeah, dude.

1323
01:34:04,580 --> 01:34:08,340
I mean, it is a huge point.

1324
01:34:08,340 --> 01:34:13,020
And it was hard for me when you brought up that subject because I truly believe in sleep

1325
01:34:13,020 --> 01:34:18,740
and how important it is and vital because I know when I come home, I can feel like my

1326
01:34:18,740 --> 01:34:21,540
life force is just dumped.

1327
01:34:21,540 --> 01:34:29,000
And how am I supposed to show up for my family like a zombie and improve my mental health?

1328
01:34:29,000 --> 01:34:30,780
So I truly believe in it.

1329
01:34:30,780 --> 01:34:37,980
I mean, we had a Navy SEAL who works for our department who is part of this agency called

1330
01:34:37,980 --> 01:34:47,380
Three Six Romeo who's doing sleep studies, and yeah, so it's a huge topic.

1331
01:34:47,380 --> 01:34:50,260
But what can we do right now?

1332
01:34:50,260 --> 01:34:55,340
That's the real answer we have to face.

1333
01:34:55,340 --> 01:34:57,180
We can't change all that stuff right now.

1334
01:34:57,180 --> 01:34:59,460
So what can we do?

1335
01:34:59,460 --> 01:35:06,220
That's where I have been and pushing an agenda to get us more sleep is something I would

1336
01:35:06,220 --> 01:35:08,500
hope for without a doubt.

1337
01:35:08,500 --> 01:35:10,060
Yeah, it's coming.

1338
01:35:10,060 --> 01:35:11,660
I'm telling you, the dominoes are falling.

1339
01:35:11,660 --> 01:35:12,980
So the conversation is growing.

1340
01:35:12,980 --> 01:35:17,260
I'm just getting people from all over the country reaching out now, which is fucking

1341
01:35:17,260 --> 01:35:18,260
amazing.

1342
01:35:18,260 --> 01:35:21,460
But like you said, that there's the other side because it's ownership and it's also

1343
01:35:21,460 --> 01:35:22,460
okay.

1344
01:35:22,460 --> 01:35:23,980
My chief just said we're going to go to it.

1345
01:35:23,980 --> 01:35:27,500
That's still going to take a year and a half of hiring and all that stuff.

1346
01:35:27,500 --> 01:35:29,980
So I've still got to work these shifts until then.

1347
01:35:29,980 --> 01:35:35,020
And so that's where you're absolutely right leaning into everything from really making

1348
01:35:35,020 --> 01:35:39,620
sure that you're taking your vacation days and spending time with your family and being

1349
01:35:39,620 --> 01:35:45,660
diligent with your nutrition and doing a headspace for 15 minutes in the gym, hoping you don't

1350
01:35:45,660 --> 01:35:49,820
get a cold, whatever it is, those are all the tools that I think are phenomenal.

1351
01:35:49,820 --> 01:35:55,700
But at the same time, collectively get educated and angry enough to push for the long term

1352
01:35:55,700 --> 01:36:00,800
benefits that are going to allow you to actually make it to retirement and hopefully play with

1353
01:36:00,800 --> 01:36:03,460
your grandkids into your eighties.

1354
01:36:03,460 --> 01:36:11,140
Yeah, I think that's one of the main things we want to see people thrive outside of retirement

1355
01:36:11,140 --> 01:36:12,940
and even make it across the finish line.

1356
01:36:12,940 --> 01:36:14,900
But that's not what we're seeing.

1357
01:36:14,900 --> 01:36:22,180
We're seeing just these high amounts of cancer and alcoholism outside of your retirement

1358
01:36:22,180 --> 01:36:24,980
and people just suffering, man.

1359
01:36:24,980 --> 01:36:29,100
And I think suffering involves a lot of ignorance.

1360
01:36:29,100 --> 01:36:33,620
And so the best thing I try to present is the most information you could have.

1361
01:36:33,620 --> 01:36:36,760
If it's not something you want to grab onto, that's fine.

1362
01:36:36,760 --> 01:36:42,940
That's why you have multiple segues of something you can use for your toolbox to empower yourself

1363
01:36:42,940 --> 01:36:48,620
for having a better retirement or even getting to retirement.

1364
01:36:48,620 --> 01:36:50,460
And so I think it's tough, man.

1365
01:36:50,460 --> 01:36:52,740
I mean, I hope that this change does happen.

1366
01:36:52,740 --> 01:36:54,420
I really believe it will.

1367
01:36:54,420 --> 01:36:57,020
But it takes an army.

1368
01:36:57,020 --> 01:37:00,540
It takes all of us to come in together and unification.

1369
01:37:00,540 --> 01:37:05,540
I mean, it's so powerful how we can come on here and I can speak to you from across the

1370
01:37:05,540 --> 01:37:11,660
country and be able to connect on this level because that's what it's going to take.

1371
01:37:11,660 --> 01:37:13,860
It's going to take all of us together.

1372
01:37:13,860 --> 01:37:20,580
And that unity piece to this is so essential to how we're going to overcome these old

1373
01:37:20,580 --> 01:37:26,420
paradigms, these old ways that these systems that don't work, they don't support humanity,

1374
01:37:26,420 --> 01:37:29,900
they don't support the way we're supposed to show up in life.

1375
01:37:29,900 --> 01:37:31,540
And so these things have to crumble.

1376
01:37:31,540 --> 01:37:35,860
And so we have to also witness the crumbling stage of how all this is going to unravel.

1377
01:37:35,860 --> 01:37:36,860
Absolutely.

1378
01:37:36,860 --> 01:37:41,660
I think that's the one big thing is having the humility to just say, look, we did it

1379
01:37:41,660 --> 01:37:46,620
wrong because it worked for a long time when we were just running fires years ago.

1380
01:37:46,620 --> 01:37:48,140
24 48 was fine.

1381
01:37:48,140 --> 01:37:50,940
You know, you've got a handful of fires the whole the whole week.

1382
01:37:50,940 --> 01:37:52,780
Not a big deal.

1383
01:37:52,780 --> 01:37:56,620
But now we've got to the point and it is okay to go.

1384
01:37:56,620 --> 01:37:57,620
All right, now we need to change.

1385
01:37:57,620 --> 01:37:58,620
We were wrong.

1386
01:37:58,620 --> 01:37:59,620
We pushed against this.

1387
01:37:59,620 --> 01:38:00,620
That's fine.

1388
01:38:00,620 --> 01:38:02,180
As long as we start moving the right way.

1389
01:38:02,180 --> 01:38:07,260
And as I example, I always use one day someone said, you know what, maybe we shouldn't send

1390
01:38:07,260 --> 01:38:10,100
children up chimneys and working in factories.

1391
01:38:10,100 --> 01:38:11,340
And they changed it.

1392
01:38:11,340 --> 01:38:12,340
You know what I mean?

1393
01:38:12,340 --> 01:38:13,340
Yeah, for sure.

1394
01:38:13,340 --> 01:38:15,940
All right, well, none of that.

1395
01:38:15,940 --> 01:38:19,140
I'm going to shift some closing questions so I can be mindful of your time.

1396
01:38:19,140 --> 01:38:23,620
The first one I love to ask, is there a book or other books that you love to recommend

1397
01:38:23,620 --> 01:38:27,580
it can be related to our discussion today or completely unrelated?

1398
01:38:27,580 --> 01:38:38,140
Yeah, one of the first books that I had read that really opened me up to my awakening was

1399
01:38:38,140 --> 01:38:40,780
The Way of the Peaceful Warrior.

1400
01:38:40,780 --> 01:38:42,860
And that book was written by Dan Millman.

1401
01:38:42,860 --> 01:38:44,900
It's a great story.

1402
01:38:44,900 --> 01:38:50,380
And it's so simple, and it's so powerful at the same time.

1403
01:38:50,380 --> 01:38:52,180
Brilliant.

1404
01:38:52,180 --> 01:38:57,240
And what about documentaries or films?

1405
01:38:57,240 --> 01:38:58,460
Documentaries or films.

1406
01:38:58,460 --> 01:39:08,280
My favorite movie man is Gangs of New York, because that movie is about like, the antagonist.

1407
01:39:08,280 --> 01:39:12,360
And every story has a hero and a villain.

1408
01:39:12,360 --> 01:39:16,860
But that story made you question, who is the villain here?

1409
01:39:16,860 --> 01:39:22,380
And it's a dualistic way of storytelling.

1410
01:39:22,380 --> 01:39:27,220
But that movie really brought into the idea, wait, who is the villain?

1411
01:39:27,220 --> 01:39:31,820
It's actually your perspective on deciding who is the antagonist here.

1412
01:39:31,820 --> 01:39:36,180
I mean, it's a historical film or a historical story.

1413
01:39:36,180 --> 01:39:40,340
And Martin Scorsese is like one of my favorite directors.

1414
01:39:40,340 --> 01:39:43,580
It's a phenomenal film, so it's probably one of my favorite movies.

1415
01:39:43,580 --> 01:39:45,180
If you haven't seen it, you have to watch it.

1416
01:39:45,180 --> 01:39:46,180
Oh, I've seen it.

1417
01:39:46,180 --> 01:39:48,420
Isn't there a scene where firefighters actually fight?

1418
01:39:48,420 --> 01:39:49,740
There is a fire scene, isn't there?

1419
01:39:49,740 --> 01:39:50,740
Yeah.

1420
01:39:50,740 --> 01:39:53,340
Yeah, I think the other takeaway is if you don't work against each other, but you work

1421
01:39:53,340 --> 01:39:56,140
together, a lot less blood will be shed.

1422
01:39:56,140 --> 01:39:58,180
That's the other takeaway.

1423
01:39:58,180 --> 01:39:59,180
Without a doubt, man.

1424
01:39:59,180 --> 01:40:00,180
All right.

1425
01:40:00,180 --> 01:40:03,180
Well, then speaking of amazing people, is there a person that you'd recommend to come

1426
01:40:03,180 --> 01:40:08,020
on this podcast as a guest to speak to the first responders, military and associated

1427
01:40:08,020 --> 01:40:10,620
professions of the world?

1428
01:40:10,620 --> 01:40:13,220
Yeah, dude.

1429
01:40:13,220 --> 01:40:15,300
There's a guy named Corey Pullman.

1430
01:40:15,300 --> 01:40:19,780
He is a retired Navy SEAL after 10 years.

1431
01:40:19,780 --> 01:40:22,180
And he came on the podcast.

1432
01:40:22,180 --> 01:40:26,740
He was referred to me by a friend and he serves the medicine of iboga.

1433
01:40:26,740 --> 01:40:31,980
And there's little to no information on this medicine.

1434
01:40:31,980 --> 01:40:37,260
And so he has his story about what he talks about his own personal struggle of dealing

1435
01:40:37,260 --> 01:40:41,180
with hypervigilance and went down this plant medicine route.

1436
01:40:41,180 --> 01:40:47,040
And he took it upon himself to go to Africa to study with the Bwiti tribes and their traditions

1437
01:40:47,040 --> 01:40:49,300
of this powerful medicine.

1438
01:40:49,300 --> 01:40:53,080
And so he breaks it down so well.

1439
01:40:53,080 --> 01:40:57,380
And he's one of the most grounded individuals I've ever met.

1440
01:40:57,380 --> 01:41:02,100
And he takes such a great perspective.

1441
01:41:02,100 --> 01:41:07,060
After seeing some people who've been involved with plant medicine and things like that,

1442
01:41:07,060 --> 01:41:13,180
there's a weird spiritual pseudo image people present with that.

1443
01:41:13,180 --> 01:41:14,820
And he does not present that.

1444
01:41:14,820 --> 01:41:21,080
He gives a great perspective that's logical and practical with a medicine that's been

1445
01:41:21,080 --> 01:41:24,100
used for thousands of years that can quickly heal you.

1446
01:41:24,100 --> 01:41:27,620
I mean, it's referred to as the root of all healing, this medicine.

1447
01:41:27,620 --> 01:41:31,020
And so he was able to break all that down.

1448
01:41:31,020 --> 01:41:37,980
And for him being even a Navy SEAL for 10 plus years and doing this great work of learning

1449
01:41:37,980 --> 01:41:41,980
all this stuff and helping people change their lives is truly amazing.

1450
01:41:41,980 --> 01:41:44,860
Did you say he went to Africa about 10 years ago?

1451
01:41:44,860 --> 01:41:52,900
No, he served for 10 years for the Navy and then went to Africa after he served his time.

1452
01:41:52,900 --> 01:41:55,100
And I think he went to Africa twice.

1453
01:41:55,100 --> 01:41:58,020
Okay, because I had Marcus Capone on the show.

1454
01:41:58,020 --> 01:42:01,780
But if he was doing that, it sounds like he was also one of the pioneers of this movement

1455
01:42:01,780 --> 01:42:03,780
in the SEAL community.

1456
01:42:03,780 --> 01:42:12,140
Yeah, I mean, I think that group of the frogmen, they were really desperate.

1457
01:42:12,140 --> 01:42:17,180
They realized the VA was not supporting their health crisis or mental health crisis.

1458
01:42:17,180 --> 01:42:20,500
I mean, they're just passing out value in SSRIs.

1459
01:42:20,500 --> 01:42:22,220
And they're like, dude, what is this?

1460
01:42:22,220 --> 01:42:25,380
And Navy SEALs know bullshit when they see it.

1461
01:42:25,380 --> 01:42:33,220
And so they took it upon themselves to find what pathway of healing they could truly,

1462
01:42:33,220 --> 01:42:35,780
I guess, gravitate towards.

1463
01:42:35,780 --> 01:42:38,740
And this is something that's within that community that's very huge.

1464
01:42:38,740 --> 01:42:41,500
So I don't know.

1465
01:42:41,500 --> 01:42:43,580
He keeps some of this stuff secret.

1466
01:42:43,580 --> 01:42:46,940
You have to talk to him about his approach towards this stuff.

1467
01:42:46,940 --> 01:42:48,460
But he's a great person, man.

1468
01:42:48,460 --> 01:42:49,460
Okay, brilliant.

1469
01:42:49,460 --> 01:42:50,460
Well, thank you for that.

1470
01:42:50,460 --> 01:42:51,460
All right.

1471
01:42:51,460 --> 01:42:53,900
Well, then the very last question before we make sure everyone knows where to find you

1472
01:42:53,900 --> 01:42:57,820
and the podcast, what do you do to decompress?

1473
01:42:57,820 --> 01:43:06,980
Yeah, as far as finding the podcast, you can go on the grablives underscore podcast Instagram

1474
01:43:06,980 --> 01:43:10,020
page because we have our link tree under there.

1475
01:43:10,020 --> 01:43:13,780
And you can find our YouTube account, Spotify platform, everything that's underneath that

1476
01:43:13,780 --> 01:43:17,500
link trees in the Instagram account.

1477
01:43:17,500 --> 01:43:21,460
And I try to do my best to empower people.

1478
01:43:21,460 --> 01:43:27,620
And this is what my main focus is, is about empowering people to take your power back

1479
01:43:27,620 --> 01:43:33,180
from whether it was a traumatic incident in your life, whether it was from your resistance

1480
01:43:33,180 --> 01:43:38,900
and towards administration betrayal, whatever it is in your life, it's about empowering

1481
01:43:38,900 --> 01:43:45,460
yourself because we are divine human beings that we have the potential to overcome anything.

1482
01:43:45,460 --> 01:43:51,220
And so that's what I do my best to do through the Instagram account, through our episodes,

1483
01:43:51,220 --> 01:43:54,100
through our clips, whatever it is.

1484
01:43:54,100 --> 01:43:59,140
So if you can go through there, it's a great opportunity for you to hear perspectives from

1485
01:43:59,140 --> 01:44:05,660
myself, my own personal journey, the amazing healings I've seen from people and their stories

1486
01:44:05,660 --> 01:44:10,580
and maybe taking things a bit further and realizing like the multi-dimensional self

1487
01:44:10,580 --> 01:44:13,700
and understanding different forms of thought.

1488
01:44:13,700 --> 01:44:15,220
I'm always open to everything.

1489
01:44:15,220 --> 01:44:21,500
So aside from that, my own decompression is about sticking to my practices and they can

1490
01:44:21,500 --> 01:44:24,140
change every day.

1491
01:44:24,140 --> 01:44:29,820
I do my practice of meditation every day because it centers me.

1492
01:44:29,820 --> 01:44:36,140
It makes me kind of extrapolate all of the excess noise in my head and it brings more

1493
01:44:36,140 --> 01:44:40,300
clarity in how I show up for myself and my life.

1494
01:44:40,300 --> 01:44:47,620
I do cold plunging man from saunas to journal lane, which is really helpful.

1495
01:44:47,620 --> 01:44:49,220
It changes every day.

1496
01:44:49,220 --> 01:44:52,820
And like I had mentioned before, it's all about the seasons of life.

1497
01:44:52,820 --> 01:44:56,740
You have to flow within the natural order of things.

1498
01:44:56,740 --> 01:44:59,660
I study under a Qigong Kung Fu master.

1499
01:44:59,660 --> 01:45:07,420
So I've understood how to understand the ancient ways of how we're supposed to navigate our

1500
01:45:07,420 --> 01:45:14,100
power, our physical power from the trillions of cells we have that empower us every walk

1501
01:45:14,100 --> 01:45:15,580
of life.

1502
01:45:15,580 --> 01:45:16,580
That makes sense.

1503
01:45:16,580 --> 01:45:17,580
It does.

1504
01:45:17,580 --> 01:45:18,580
Beautiful.

1505
01:45:18,580 --> 01:45:20,020
Well, John, I want to say thank you so much.

1506
01:45:20,020 --> 01:45:24,180
It's been a very deep spiritual conversation and that's good.

1507
01:45:24,180 --> 01:45:28,740
I mean, there's some that are raw and the person is maybe sometimes even still coming

1508
01:45:28,740 --> 01:45:33,180
out of their crisis and others are talking specifically about treatment modalities, but

1509
01:45:33,180 --> 01:45:37,820
this has been a really fascinating conversation about really kind of going beneath that and

1510
01:45:37,820 --> 01:45:41,020
exploring, as you said, even belief systems themselves.

1511
01:45:41,020 --> 01:45:44,500
So I want to thank you so much for being so generous with your time and coming on the

1512
01:45:44,500 --> 01:45:46,300
Behind the Shield podcast today.

1513
01:45:46,300 --> 01:45:47,820
Oh, thanks, brother.

1514
01:45:47,820 --> 01:45:48,820
I really appreciate it.

1515
01:45:48,820 --> 01:45:53,380
I know we were trying to get this done for quite some time and it's as a podcaster to

1516
01:45:53,380 --> 01:45:57,260
a podcaster, it is a struggle man to schedule things.

1517
01:45:57,260 --> 01:45:58,260
So thank you so much, brother.

1518
01:45:58,260 --> 01:46:00,260
I really appreciate your time as well.

1519
01:46:00,260 --> 01:46:01,940
I hope all is well.

1520
01:46:01,940 --> 01:46:02,940
You've done so much.

1521
01:46:02,940 --> 01:46:06,180
Thank you, brother, for your platform and everything you've done as well.