This episode is sponsored by 511 Tactical, a company that I've used for around 14 years now and continue to use to this day.
And they are offering you, the audience, a 15% discount. Not on one purchase, but continuously.
And I'll give you that code in just a moment.
But I want to do a product showcase on their new Atlas sneakers and boots.
So I'm a big believer in the fact that footwear can either improve our health or break down our health.
And the Atlas sneaker actually has a new foam system that disperses the body weight.
Whether just the body weight, whether it's a vest and a gun, whether it's EMS bags being carried.
And on top of that, they're lightweight despite having the same protection that's required in the tactical space.
So I have a pair of Atlas sneakers myself and I can attest they're extremely comfortable.
On top of footwear, of course, 511 offers a gamut of uniforms and equipment.
Whether it's plate carriers, backpacks, flashlights, you name it, they have it.
All you have to do is go to 511tactical.com and use the code SHIELD15.
That's S-H-I-E-L-D-1-5 at 511tactical.com and you will save every time you purchase.
And to learn more about the company 511 Tactical,
you can listen to episode 338 of the Behind the Shield podcast with the CEO, Francisco Morales.
This episode is brought to you by GovX.
And as you know, I only have companies on here that I truly use and believe in myself.
And GovX is a complete no-brainer.
If you are a member of fire, police, EMS, corrections, military, and even hospital setting, doctors and nurses,
you qualify for the free membership to GovX, which marries us with discounts from so many companies that you probably already use.
And on top of that, it's not just for active duty, but also retirees, veterans and volunteers.
So for our professions, having to purchase so much of our equipment, every single dollar counts.
And understanding that, GovX has reached out to you, the Behind the Shield podcast audience, to offer you an additional saving.
On your first purchase of $50 or more, if you use the code SHIELD, S-H-I-E-L-D,
they will give you an additional $15 off your first purchase.
And another layer of GovX is GovX gives back.
Every month, they're going to sell a different patch.
And the proceeds from that patch goes to a charity that supports either first responders or military.
So as I mentioned before, go to GovX.com, G-O-V-X.com, register for your free membership and save every single time you purchase.
Welcome to episode 414 of Behind the Shield podcast.
As always, my name is James Gearing.
And this week, it is my absolute honor to welcome on the show, Dave Castro.
Now, many of you probably recognize Dave from the CrossFit Games and the CrossFit community,
but lesser known, he was also a Navy SEAL at the highest level.
And for a brief moment, the CEO of CrossFit.
So I really wanted to discuss with him the tactical side through the lens of the military through first responders.
So we discuss a host of topics from entry standards, maintaining tactical fitness,
the importance of hero wads, competitive shooting, martial arts and so much more.
Now, I do want to note the first few minutes we had a slight audio issue,
which was very quickly remedied in the rest of the conversation is crystal clear.
Before we get to that conversation, as I say every week, please just take a moment,
go to whichever app you listen to this on, hit subscribe, leave feedback.
I truly love reading your feedback and leave a rating.
Every five star rating elevates this podcast, making it easier for others to find.
And this is a free library for you, planet Earth.
So all I ask in return is that you help share these incredible men and women's stories
so I can get them to everyone else who needs to hear them.
So with that being said, introduced to you, Dave Castro. Enjoy.
Well, Dave, I want to start by saying thank you so much for coming on the Behind the Shield podcast today.
Thanks for having me.
So where on planet Earth are we finding you right now?
I'm in California. I live near about an hour south of San Jose.
And I'm at actually the ranch I grew up on, which also is the home of the CrossFit Games,
the first three CrossFit Games.
And actually this year we just we had this year's CrossFit Games here too, because of all the COVID issues.
Beautiful. Was it despite the bad environment around why it was there,
was it kind of cool to kind of go back to the roots and have it there this last year?
Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, for me, it was it was maybe once in a lifetime opportunity at this stage.
And I only say that because the the notion of the CrossFit Games being held in its entirety
at in Aromas back at the ranch is frankly impossible because we won't run the games anymore
without fans and large numbers of fans.
But this environment created a predicament where it wasn't an impossibility.
It was actually a great solution to the problem to bring it back here because we couldn't have fans.
So, like, you know, as bad as everything's been with COVID, it was it caused this unique environment
to where we could have the games here. And it made complete sense.
Beautiful. Well, I love to walk people through chronologically.
So let's start at the very beginning. So I don't know if a lot of people know about your back story.
So where were you born? And then tell me about your family dynamic, what your parents did and how many siblings?
I was born in San Jose, California, and I grew up there until I was about second grade.
And then from that point, we moved down to Aromas to this ranch and we moved to this property.
And this is where I grew up with my brother.
He was seven years older than me. And my parents, my dad, he was a and my mom.
My dad was a truck driver. My mom worked for the trucking company that my dad ran.
My brother also was a truck driver and a truck mechanic.
And that's kind of why we moved to this 65 acre property.
He wanted his trucking operation co-located with where he lived.
So he built out the built out a big shop and a big section of the property dedicated towards the trucking company.
Interestingly, that lifestyle and that type of work had a lot of reason.
It was a lot of the motivation for me to join the Navy.
I did not want to be a truck driver and I did not want to be a truck driver or a truck mechanic.
So I saw how hard of work that was.
And I'm not saying I'm adverse to hard work, but I saw the type of work it was and I saw the hours and what my brother and my dad put in.
And how much they put into it.
And I was just like, this isn't for me. I need to find something else. I need to do something else.
And that's where I was. I actually went for two or three months before dropping out to enlist in the Navy.
Gotcha. Well, then with that, did you have any members of military in your extended family that kind of inspired you to go that direction?
My grandfather, he was in the Korean War from my mom's side.
And he was kind of, you know, it felt like at that time in my family, not a lot of members were in the military.
So he was one of the early or one of the influences from, you know, our earlier generation.
One of my cousins, who was my brother's age, he was seven years older than me too.
He also he had gone into the Air Force.
But other than that, and then my cousin, who was my age after I went into the Navy, he went into the Air Force.
But other than that, there was not a lot of military influence in my life, especially in my immediate family.
There wasn't a lot of military influence.
Well, obviously, you ended up being a super high level performer.
Were you an athlete or a sportsman when you were a school age?
Well, so I think that's also when I look back at my youth and how I ended up becoming a SEAL and why I did that.
I think my athletic, my lack of athletic success in high school was part of the motivation for me to to try to go to that route.
Essentially, you know, I played football.
I was on our high school football team for all four years.
I think I started one game once and like I was not a stellar player on the team by any stretch of the imagination.
I tried out for basketball. I didn't get picked.
I dabbled in wrestling a little, but I really wasn't into that.
And so I was average to below average athlete in sports at high school.
But I really love sports and I really love the physicality of testing myself and pushing myself.
But but nowhere near what I would have liked to have seen with the high school career in sports.
One thing I later learned I should have probably been heavily involved with, but I didn't get involved with at all, was running like cross country.
Because once I decided to become a SEAL and started training for for for that path, I started running a lot and I was pretty good at running.
Still this day, if I train, I'm pretty good.
So when I'm running, I think I would have had more success if I would have gone a cross country route in high school than some of the team sports I tried.
I reached out to some SEAL friends, some cross fit friends like Ronald T's and one of them is George Ryan.
And he mentioned what a great striker you were.
So did you get into martial arts when you were younger or was that more when you were actually into the tactical space?
No, so that's another thing that was in my youth. And so I've always been into the martial arts and the striking sports, especially not really into grappling and that sort of thing.
But so the boxing for me, you know, while I was studying all those martial arts, having a heavy bag and having a speed bag at home was was an easy way to continue training.
So so as a kid and growing up, I played a lot with those items.
And so I was always into striking and boxing.
And even to this day, I still enjoy punching a bag, punching a speed bag and just go playing with those skills.
I also I never box like I never took formal instruction as a kid.
I kind of wish I did. And I never box on any sort of amateur level or anything like that.
But I just didn't feel like where I was growing.
It wasn't a lot growing up. Didn't feel like there was a lot of opportunities for that.
I think there actually was. I just didn't find them.
But it's something that I really enjoyed and loved.
And even to this day, I'm a huge fan. I think boxing might be my favorite sport to watch.
Beautiful. Well, what about at the high school age, as far as career aspirations, you knew you didn't want to be a truck driver.
Were you thinking about the military even those final few years?
No, absolutely not. And it's funny because I was kind of I didn't know what I wanted to do.
I knew I needed to go to college. I knew I'd figure out what I wanted to do in college.
But essentially, once I graduated from high school, that summer, I went to the movies with my girlfriend.
And the movie we end up seeing was The Rock and The Rock with Nick Nicolas Cage and Sean Connery.
It's about this group of Marines who take over Alcatraz and then they call in the Navy Seals to to rescue all the hostages and retake over the island.
Well, the Seals end up getting all killed. The Marines shoot them and take them out.
But when when they came into the movie and into their scenes, they were all dressed in black.
They had their scuba gear. They just built them up. They're really cool looking.
They had these little underwater submarines and everything about them was like super to me, intriguing and cool.
So I left that movie. Remember, this is the summer after I graduated high school.
Super intrigued by those guys, by the Seals.
Now, growing up as a kid at the ranch, I played with a lot of GI Joes. I shot on the ranch.
I was already kind of into that stuff. I knew of Navy Seals, but I never thought I wanted to be one.
But so then I left that movie and I was like, man, those guys that look really cool.
I wonder what it's like. I wonder what it's like to do that or wonder what it takes to be one of them.
And so I do what I did then and what I still do to this day.
If I get into something, I really study it and read about it and consume all the content that I can on the topic.
So I started Googling or not Googling.
I started buying books and started researching and actually the Internet was out there around this time.
So it was 96. I don't know if it was Google, but I started using the Internet to look into it and
buying all the books I could find, all the Marcinko books, Dick Couch.
There was a few other books at that time on the topic.
Watched the movies, rewatched Navy Seals with Charlie Sheen and just consumed all the content I could on the thing,
on the seals and the organization. And the one thing I, one of the reoccurring themes that kept coming across
in all of this was their training. And of course, I'm going to say this, but it's at this, especially in this day and age,
it's a lot of people debate it or argue, but we won't do that.
But the content I was reading was saying how their training is the hardest training in the military
and they're the hardest special operations and the hardest selection process to get through to
was to become a Navy Seal. So once I started seeing that reoccurring theme, something hit, something pop.
And it was this notion, do I have what it takes to do that? And so that was just lingering in my mind.
I wonder if I can do that. Do I have what it takes to do that, to make it through their training?
And it was just bugging me and it was just like there and it was just, it was haunting me.
And I kind of started processing everything and I realized I wanted to know if I had what it took.
And I realized, you know, a lot of that motivation was I still at this time felt like maybe I had
something to prove, especially because of the athletic foundation, which I just told you about
wasn't stellar. So I started going back and forth. Well, I can try this or I can delay it and wait
till after college. I eventually told my parents, hey, I want to do this. And they're like, no,
we recommend you finish college. You should do college. And then after that, you can decide if
you want to still join the Navy. So I started college two, three months into college,
something clicked. And I just had this vision of if I don't drop out of school now and pursue this dream,
a decade from now, 28, 29, 30 years old, I'll have a professional life doing something. I don't know
what in a standard job. And I'll be looking back wondering, I wonder what would have happened with
my life if I would have tried being a SEAL. And I didn't want to have that. I didn't want to have
that haunting me for the rest of my life. Because I thought if I stay in school for four years,
for four years, things will change. I'll fall in love. I'll go in a different direction.
I'll start a family. I'll get a job there. There was no I didn't believe in myself that I could do
four years of college, and then still want to be a SEAL. I just thought things would change.
So I dropped out. I dropped out of college at two or three months in, enlisted in the Navy,
and started training really hard for to prep to go to BUDs. And then like four or five months after
I dropped out was when I ended up getting shipped off to boot camp in in May, been a Great Lakes,
Great Lakes, Illinois. And then from there, I went to a school which is a vocational school
at the time I was a parachute rigger. And then from there, I went to BUDs. And I was very fortunate
to actually make it through in one the class I started with is the class I finished with.
And I wasn't injured. So injuries are a big thing. Or I wasn't rolled back being rolled back for
performance is another big thing. And then of course, the third thing is quitting. And I wasn't
I obviously didn't quit. So I had a very good run through the program.
Absolutely. Well, that's that's rare. Because I mean, a lot of them, the, you know,
seals that I've had on here, they did get rolled back usually because of injury.
So obviously, you had that, you know, longevity and the mindset. One thing I ask all of the special
operations, you know, men and women that come on here. What when you look back, had you done
right to prepare physically? What did you do wrong? And then ultimately, what was the,
the thought in your mind that stopped you ringing the bell and so many other people did?
I believed in myself and I believed I could make it and I still felt this like I had to
prove something like I really, I didn't I couldn't quit and I felt I so many people told me not to
do it. And I felt like so many people were doubting me, even though my family ended up
being incredibly proud of and supportive of me. I felt like my dad, especially kind of
didn't believe I could do it. And so I really felt like I had something to prove to them. But
more importantly, I had something to prove to myself. And and I knew, here's the thing,
by the time I got there, here's the other thing I realized. I, by the time you get there, I realized,
wow, I am so fucking close to doing this. Like, you know, less than a year before that, I was
thinking, I wonder if I have what it takes to be a Navy SEAL. Now, I, I'm in the fucking training
to be a Navy SEAL. And it was it was frankly surreal. Here I am, what 18, 19 years old,
I think it was 19, 19 years old at the time. And I'm from from hiding this idea a summer ago or so,
to now, like I'm in it, and I'm going through the training. That that weighed on me heavily,
and I was not gonna let that opportunity slip by me. And that's like a big macro vision of kind of
what I'm talking about. But like, even if I dive into that question a little more, to give you a
specifics of how I like what helped me make it through, there was kind of this notion in my mind,
and I've given people this advice when they're training to go to BUDS, or if they go to BUDS,
is like, you got to break it down into small segments. Because if you don't, if you just look
at it in its entirety, it is incredibly overwhelming and daunting. And what I what I mean by that is,
so even what once you make it through Hell Week, let's say, I don't know where it is now in the
training. Back then, Hell Week was like five or six weeks into the training. Well, people would
assume incorrectly that making it through Hell Week was like after that, it would get easier.
It did not get anywhere easier at all. Actually, it probably ramped up. And but at that point,
you wake up, or you go to bed, and you're like, Oh, my God, I still have five months of this to
go through. I've already been through a month, and I still have five. And that is daunting. Even
check this out, even when you hit the halfway point thinking, I still have three more months of
this daunting, even when you hit, you're almost done when you have a month left, four or five weeks
of that just non stop relentless torture and abuse, it weighs on you heavily. So so for me,
there was a point where that really started that what I'm explaining there hit me and was weighing
on me. And so finally, in my own mind, I had to deal with it somehow. And the way I decided to
deal with it was all right, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to make it to the next meal.
And so Bud's was really like they fed us really well. And so you we had breakfast, lunch, and
dinner and like you'd go to the chow hall, the galley, the mess, whatever we called it, and you
could eat a lot of food. And so eating was never an issue. And those were like anchor points of the
day. Here's the thing about those just to eat every day, we ran six miles a day. So why I say
that is the place where we ate was one mile away from our barracks. So we'd run to breakfast,
we'd eat, then we'd run back, then we'd still do a four mile time run or some other evolution.
Then we'd run to lunch a mile and we'd run back another mile. And then later you'd run to dinner,
and then you'd run back. So so for me, I said, All right, all I need to do every day is just make it
to the next meal. And that's what I threw out the entire process. You know, when I wake up in the
morning, well, let's say after breakfast, we're getting hammered, we're sitting out in the ocean,
they're making us do push ups, they're making us do all this stuff. I was like, All right, don't
worry about this. All you need to do is survive till lunch. And then I make it to lunch. And I'm
like, that's a huge victory. Now all I need to do is make it to dinner. And I just kept thinking
that over and over and just repeating that over and over and over. And I knew I knew it'd be I knew
the the pain I was going through now would be so worth it. In the end, I really believed it. I
really believe like becoming a Navy SEAL was going to be life changing and defining of me in so many
ways. I had no idea to what like to be how immense that would be in in my life, obviously, but I knew
it was going to be such a important thing for me to accomplish. So it was there was no doubt like
in my mind, I never I could say like I and I say this confidently, like I really don't feel like I
ever felt like quitting because of all those things that just described to you, like I had to cope with
things I had to, I had to figure out how was it to get to that point. But quitting to me,
it just didn't, I don't think it was there. Well, a couple things out of that. Firstly,
I think if everyone had to run a mile for their breakfast, lunch and dinner, we'd definitely
address some of the obesity epidemic that we have in this country. Yeah. But secondly, the the micro
victories are very important thing. I think that's one of the issues that we see in so many problems
in society is the end goal is say, let's say obesity, you want to lose 100 pounds, where you're
looking at 100 pounds instead of, you know, this is what I want to achieve today or this morning.
And using that mindset, not just obviously for completing SEAL training, but just anything in
life. Absolutely. Yep, for sure. Right. Well, an interesting perspective that you have,
because I know your career went from 98 to 2010 is you're one of my guests that spanned 911. So
through your lens, what was your training like pre 911? And how did it change post 911? And the
reason I asked that is in my profession, I think some of the the better departments do a lot of
kind of what if training, you know, pre planning and trying to come up with scenarios, and therefore
are somewhat ready when you know, the the fire ground or the battleground shifts, the obviously
conversely, there are some that don't and are caught by surprise. So what did you, you know,
what shift did you observe in your time in the service? That's a great question. And one thing
I always like to remind people love about that is so yeah, my I enlisted in 97, 98, 97. And
um, I enlisted pre 911. And that's like a big, and actually, this is silly, but I still go here
in my own mind. And I'll tell you why it's silly in a minute. Sometimes I, I've gone to a place where
I really respect the people who enlisted after 911. And I thought, hey, would I have done the
same thing? Because here's the reality. If you enlisted after 911, in that, in that, let's say
that decade immediately after 911. So I mean, there were fucking high probability you were
going to go to war and you might not make it back. So I, and I know I still would have, but I still,
I still wonder like, so I really, I really respect all the individuals who enlisted after 911,
because frankly, I enlisted during peacetime. And there was not much in the world going on in that
phase eventually. So after buds, I made it to a seal team and that was 98 timeframe, February 98.
And so for the, I was a seal for a couple of two, three years where we trained even after 911
training was a obviously a huge piece of everything to do, but we sent so much time training, even on
the deployments where we deploy, I was at Silking force. So we deployed to South America. We spent
a lot of time training, well deployed. And, and it felt like, it just felt like this endless cycle
of we're always being prepared. We're always going to be ready for these missions we train for. But
even in the only short three years before 911 that I was a seal, you do get to this point where you're
like, fuck, we're never going to do anything. Like we're never going to get to, we're never going to
get to do what we're training for. I even felt that tension in, in my, in my service time. Well,
then 911 hits and it's like, and I remember where I was, I was in Wyoming on a sniper trip with some
other snipers, the team I was working on, we were training the BEI Bureau of Indian Affairs. We were
working with some of their individuals and I woke up that morning, we had Glacier, Glacier National
Park, Glacier Hotel. I forgot the hotel was called. And I walk into the lobby and everyone's like
huddled around the TVs. And like, I look at the TV and I was like, holy shit. And even now saying
it, like I'm getting chills, like just remembering that moment. And it's like, wow, everything's
fucking different. And here's the, here's the craziest part about that for me too, when that
all went down, I should even, I should have led with this because it made the story more powerful.
But when we went out there to train with the BEI, the Bureau of Indian Affairs, they're kind of like
the FBI, but for Indian reservations. And one of the initial days we went to train with them,
we walked into their facility and it's, it's, you know, kind of like an FBI facility. And so they
have on their wall, a top 10 list, a top 10 FBI top 10 wanted list. And I remember looking at that
list and I remember seeing Osama bin Laden on that list. And I just like read, read his bio,
processed it. And I was like, yeah, this is Tripp, like, this is a guy. And by this point,
I think the coal bombing had already, like a lot of that other stuff had happened. And I remember
seeing that in the BEI, the Bureau of Indian Affairs facility and just like, huh, okay,
just noting it. And then no shit, a couple of days later, 9-11 happened. And then, you know,
obviously within a few weeks, we'd figure out that was all tied together. And so that was kind of
like a powerful time for me. Interestingly. So we all thought right away, you all think like,
shit, we're all going to war. We're all going to like, we're all going to get really busy,
really fast. That's the, the, the weird thing to me at that period was that didn't happen.
And like, especially there were some people, there were some units, there were some
SEAL teams who did go right away, but it wasn't blanket, like all of them. And I was at SEAL Team
4. And so we still went on our scheduled deployment to Afghanistan. I'm sorry, not Afghanistan,
South America. We still did our job. And we kind of got to this place where you're like watching it
and you're seeing all this stuff go on, but you're not getting to, you're like, we're, we're not there.
So then there was a phase where, all right, there was another goal I had. And, and you know what,
like, I'm not going to talk much about it because I really believe strongly in, in what I did and
the secrecy with it, but I'll just breeze over it lightly. And I, and I, I'm a strong believer that
I'm, I, I draw a line in discussing some of this stuff, but to, to go, to get to that level of,
of going to combat, there was another step I had to take. And so I volunteered to do that step. I
took that step, kind of a, it was another challenge. I had to go through another selection process.
I made it through that selection process. And, and I went to a team where, yes, right away,
I was seeing combat. I was going to deploy into Afghanistan and deploying to those places. And,
and frankly, like, because I'm still in close contact with the, the, the, the, the, the, the,
this group and, and people, like, I just don't talk about it. And I won't talk about it because
it's a, it's a significant part of my life. It's a significant achievement. And there's so many
other people out there who, who do talk about this stuff or who do talk about being at this unit or
those units and do, I don't want to say profit off of, but lean on and, and, and make their identity
off of it, but I won't do that. So that, that's frankly, like the, that's where I will like,
leave that phase of my military career up for people I don't want to talk about. It's not to
share with the world. Well, thank you for at least, you know, giving that part of the story. I mean,
I feel honored that you were, you know, able to tell us that. And obviously the rest is those who
know, know. So one thing I do like to ask though, and, you know, if you're again, wanting to, to
convey what you saw, anyone in the military does not have any special operations. One thing
any of us that haven't served, myself included, we get two polarizing views of war. You get the
kill them all, let go sort them out lens. And then you get the, you know, they're all baby killers
lens and there's nothing really in the middle. So I like to ask the men and women that were out there,
you know, of, of, of a perspective. So regardless of politics, regardless of whatever sends a person
into a combat zone, you know, there's obviously things that usually they see that then, I mean,
at that point, not even so much justify, but they see some of the evil in the world and, you know,
and it then gives them a very micro mission as well. So in your time over wherever you were,
were there any moments where you're like, oh shit, now, now I really see firsthand some of
the horrific things that these people are doing to their own people, for example.
It's similar. Like what I'm going to say there is yeah, like, um, there's, I, I, and maybe this is
unhealthy, but there's a lot of stuff I keep in and I don't want to shit like here, here, let me
paint a T this way. There's stuff I won't tell my family and or my closest friends. There's a lot of
friends who, who I would consider, there are a lot of people who are very close to me and my best
friends and I don't share any of these stories. So therefore what I'm saying is, you know,
I'm definitely not going to share this stuff on a podcast. Um, it goes all, it goes all directions,
though. I'll say that the inhuman, like some of, sometimes everyone can be fucking, um,
everyone can cross the line, you know, like it's, it's, it's, it's, um,
doing stuff like that at that level, you see a lot of things.
Yeah. Well, I think that's just important. So again, I, I just, I think that's, I think
that's important. So again, I, I just purely want to put it out there. People, you know,
want to walk through that door. That's absolutely fine. Um, but I think what I'm trying to get
across, and I don't need any more from you at all, but it's just that what we're asking our men and
women to do, you know, it is absolutely immense. And we, as the people who never deployed, who never
put on that uniform, even though I wore a different uniform, it's, it's, we need to know what these men
and women are truly doing, what they're sacrificing, what their families are sacrificing. So, you know,
Absolutely. That, that sacrifice and what we do is tremendously immense. And, um, it's, it's,
the depth to it is, is insane. And interestingly, like when we were doing it, when I, specifically
me was, was there, like, I'm not thinking of, I'm not thinking of the nation. I'm not thinking of,
like, we're doing the polit, political environment. I'm not thinking of our president. All I cared
about was the guy that the left and right of me. And that's what I thought about. And that's what
I like, okay, we're going to succeed in our mission, whatever work has to do, we're going to go after
this guy or that guy. But at the end of the day, especially when you're on target, the thing that
mattered most to me was the person to the left and right of me and like that my teammates, to, to,
to a degree that like, it's, you wanted, you wanted to get back with everyone you went out with.
And, um, and that's like, was that kind of became my motivation. I think I was politically or, um,
ignorant back then in terms of like, I just didn't engage. I wasn't paying attention to like,
even I, I wish I was way more in tune to the wise we were there and to like, what, but I was so
immersed in the training and the prep and the team and the guys that like all the big picture stuff,
I wasn't paying attention to at all. And I'm not saying others weren't others on our team or not,
but just me personally, like I didn't, I wasn't in that head space.
Beautiful. So, so tell me about when you came across CrossFit itself and then if you applied
that in any way, shape or form in the strength and conditioning with your fellow SEALs.
Yeah. So the unit I was at, I was an early adopter of CrossFit. I was digging the climbing and like
climbing was my passion. And so I started climbing, um, with some of the big names at the time in
Alpinism, Mark Twight and Steve House and a few of these other guys who were like legends in the
scene. And Mark Twight actually, I asked him about his training, how he trained. And he had wrote a
book about, um, he had wrote a book on training for Alpinism. Cause I thought like some of the
missions we were doing and the stuff we were doing overseas, I related that very much to Alpinism and
some of the high, the way they climb these mountains, their, their long efforts, even
though they try to climb them, uh, light and fast, but they're still, you know, half a day, full day.
And they also are obsessed to a fault with, uh, making their gear super light. And I was that way
too, with, with the way I operate and a lot of other guys work too, you know, if you had a lighter
kit, you could move faster. So I looked towards that scene for light, for, for making, for best in
class equipment choices, especially around cold weather gear and for climbing equipment, obviously
cause I was into climbing and for fitness because I, I kind of related the two. Well, Mark Twight
had wrote a book on, uh, it was called extreme Alpinism and it was on how to train for, for that
type of climbing. And it was all LSD stuff, long, slow distance. It was like long bike rides, long
runs, and that's kind of after an initial phase. So this was probably five or six years into the
team. So that was kind of the direction I started going with training. I thought, okay, I need to
train long to go long. Well, so eventually I've met him and went on a climbing trip with him.
And I asked him about the book and I asked him about the training and he's like, Hey, I don't
do that stuff at all anymore. I go really in a blooming way. He's like, yeah, I do something
else. And I go, what's that? He's like, I do CrossFit and he starts telling me about CrossFit.
And the thing about Mark Twight is he's very unassuming and he's a really small guy. And I
was a small guy amongst big guys, like amongst seals. I was below average in stature. I am not
muscular. I didn't have big, big arms and big legs. And, um, most of the seals I was around were
bigger than me. And so Mark near me was much smaller than me. And I was kind of unimpressed.
I'm like, ah, well, this guy's telling me to do CrossFit, but look at him. Like I'm not out here
to look like him. If anything, if I cared about looks, I'd rather look like the rest of the seals
that I was working with. And, um, so, but kind of the same concept as when we look back to when I,
when I saw the frog, what did that do? It planted the seed. And so what did I do? I started studying
it. I started going to the website every day. I started reading about it. I started reading all
the CrossFit journals and it was for me, it was kind of intimidating because the movements I had
never done before clean and jerks and so many of the barbell Olympic lifts they were doing, I had
never even tried. I wasn't exposed to them, not even for the four or five, six years at that time.
I'd been a seal. Nobody, practically nobody in the seal teams at that time was doing that stuff.
Those type of movements, independent of CrossFit, at least to the extent of what I was exposed to.
Maybe there was other teams or some guys were doing stuff, but I never saw it. And, um, so
for five, six months, I was just looking and studying, um, reading about CrossFit, paying
attention to it, but I never dove in. I actually convinced one guy on a deployment who was big
into fitness to give it a try and, and he ended up doing, and he loved it. And he was like,
I loved it and saw great results from it. And he didn't know this, but at the time he was kind of
my experiment. I was, uh, he thought I was doing CrossFit too. I wasn't. And through him, I saw
his, how much he got from it and how much he progressed and he had really enjoyed it. So
eventually I decided to dive in and, um, I dove in and I dove in once on a deployment, a short,
short deployment, and I did it every day, followed the main site and I was really sore. I went,
remember going on missions at this time in this deployment. Um, we had a really high tempo and
we're doing missions every night, every other night. And I would sometimes be really sore and
I'd go out on a mission. And you know what? At the end of the day, I was fine. At the end of the day,
it being really sore, like it didn't hold me back. Sometimes I pushed right through it. Uh, you kind
of forget about it. And so I trained religiously in it on deployment for that month, month and a
half and fell in love with it. And then eventually I got stationed out in California to go to DLI.
And while there, I knew that Santa Cruz was the epicenter DLI defense language Institute. It's
in Monterey. And I knew that that was the epicenter for, um, CrossFit, well, not Monterey,
but Santa Cruz. And so I started, um, commuting to Santa Cruz. I was actually living at the ranch,
going to school in Monterey. And then some days I would commute to Santa Cruz to where the founder,
Greg Glassman and his gym, uh, they were located. And so I started training there and got to know
them, became really close with them, became friends with them, went to a seminar. Then they
started asking me to help out at seminars and just, um, went all in basically any type of work. They
asked me to do any seminars. I said, yes, started going on the road with them, uh, started teaching
them, got stationed in San Diego as a Buds instructor. And so for, there was three years
from 2007 to 2010, whereas working full time for CrossFit and also full time Buds instructor.
Then it hit this point where I had to make a decision. Do I want to stay in? And if I stay in,
I'd have to go back to being operational, which means going back to a SEAL team where I'm deploying.
If I did that, I wouldn't be able to work for CrossFit. So I'd have to give up CrossFit.
Or do I get out and work for CrossFit full time already? I was already working full time.
I made the choice. I mean, CrossFit was providing way better for my, myself and my family than the
Navy would. I loved being a SEAL, but, and at this stage in 2010, I mean, I had already created the,
I was behind the games and the seminar program and so much of it was blowing up and becoming big.
There was, it was a unique phase in the development of CrossFit and I was at the center of it. And it
would have been silly for me to turn my back on that. So I decided to get out and go full time
CrossFit. I actually considered the reserve thing for a little bit, but then even at that time,
there were still guys deploying a lot, being pulled from the reserves to go to Iraq. And I just couldn't,
as much work as CrossFit was, I couldn't go on another deployment like that. So I decided not even
to do the reserve thing. So I got out. Now question for you. So a few,
there's two kind of transitions that I see. There's the ones where someone transitions
from military first responders and they have another tribe to go into. They have another purpose
and that transition usually seems to be pretty smooth. Then you get the other side where it's
the SEAL that identifies as a SEAL and everything's poured into that. And when they transition out,
they struggle, the firefighter, the police officer. What was your transition like and what do you
attribute to it being good or bad, depending on your experience? Well, it was seamless and it was
seamless because I was very fortunate to have that community that I was already part of and that job
that I'd already been working for, for three, four years. And so for me, and one of the big things,
so while I was working for CrossFit from 2007, 2010, and active duty, early on, I made it clear
to Greg and I made it clear to Tony Budding, who was in charge of our media at that time,
and a few other people in the organization. I do not, and I cannot, I do not want you guys
to publicize me or to put me out as an AV SEAL. I go keep all of that stuff off of the internet,
keep out, like I can be seen in photos and I can be out there, but I'm not going to be out there
as an AV SEAL. And so there was a thick line in the sand and we didn't cross it. Even when I got
out for the first, I got in 2010, for the first three or four years, I had no, we really kept that
out of the front line. And I'm actually really proud of that. Even to this day, I meet people
who are still like, Hey man, I just found out you're an AV SEAL. I've known about you in CrossFit
for a decade, but I had no idea you're an AV SEAL. And every time I hear that, I smile and I think,
yeah, I did exactly what I needed to do. And I'm proud of that. I didn't want my identity in CrossFit
or my success in CrossFit to be defined by an AV SEAL. Even to this day, nobody, hardly anybody
refers to, yeah, Dave Cash or the Navy SEAL. No, it's Dave Cash or the CrossFit guy. No, it's Dave
Cash or the guy who created the game. Dave Cash or the director of the games. It's nothing, the Navy
SEAL piece of it is not the lead or primary. And that to me is a huge accomplishment that I'm proud
of. That being said, I'm also not naive in thinking that, Hey, you know what? Being a Navy SEAL did
get me in the door with Greg Glassman and the CrossFit cohort of people at the time, maybe further
than it would have if I wasn't a Navy SEAL. So I'm very respectful of that. And also though, what I
think in general and advice I give to people is, Hey man, that's great that you're a Navy SEAL or
fucking Marine or whatever you did. That's all good. But when you're trying to get to the next
level or you're trying to transition to a civilian world and civilian life, you need to let it go.
And meaning, Hey, that can't define everything about you at all times. And frankly, if you want
to be successful, you need to be afraid not to start over again. And meaning like start over,
like when I started working for CrossFit and doing seminars, I had been at the pinnacle of
my SEAL profession. But the first few jobs I had at seminars was taking the trash out and moving
chairs. And I had no issue with and setting up chairs for the classroom. And I had no issue with
that. And I was humble and knew I was in a new environment and I had to prove myself and was
willing and able to start over and prove myself. I feel like a lot of people this day and age lean
so heavily on that identity and think that it should get so, it should open up so many doors.
And here's the thing, it can and will open up doors. But once that door is open, what you do
with it is the significant defining piece of it all. You can't, it can open the door and then
you've got to capitalize on it. You've got to make something happen and you've got to prove value to
to essentially the civilian communities or audiences you're now working with. But and
you know, in this day and age of Instagram and social media, I mean, you look at, I look at some
of these guys out there and what they're doing on their pages in relation to being SEALs and
it's just kind of, it's kind of over the top. And at some point, like I feel like saying,
at some point you got to take this, just let it go, man. It's impressive. It's significant.
Yeah, you did it a decade ago. You did it five years ago, even if you did it two years ago. We
get it. Like it's really great. And it's an amazing phase of your life. But there's a,
there's a like, you got to move on type thing going on. And I think a lot of guys struggle with
with moving on and trying to find an identity independent of that. And it could be partially
because it's scary. And the other thing too, and it's, and I will say this, when I look at what I'm
saying, again, I'll say this, it's easy for me to say, and it's easy for me to say, because I had
this great opportunity with CrossFit and I transitioned out and I didn't need to lean on
being a seal and all of that. So, you know, that I recognize that I do recognize that.
Well, I think that's a really important thing to hear though, because, you know, as I said,
some people were fortunate enough to have that, you know, some of the guys in Echelon Front,
they had that to transition to. But even, you know, I think if you're approaching retirement,
whatever you're in, it's understanding that you do have to start creating that next chapter. And as
you said, I'm so proud of my career as a firefighter, but I retired two years ago to focus on this,
because I thought this was the false mark, excuse me, the false multiplier on making a difference
in the world, but not wearing what I call the magic trousers, the fire gear. You know, it's,
yeah, it's emasculating to my ego, my fragile ego, but then you push that aside and realize,
well, there's more to life than just that one uniform. Absolutely. All right. Well, one thing
I want to talk about, we actually did, I ran a hero workout this morning, Kevin Houston, who's
one of the SEALs that died in Extortion 17. One thing that I've really admired and really did
draw me to CrossFit was the close relationship and the admiration with that community and,
you know, the military and the first responders. And obviously the Prescott 19 workout in Arizona
was a huge thing for the fire service. So, you know, who was kind of responsible? What was the
kind of ethos as far as making sure that you embrace those communities? Greg Glassman. I mean,
Greg was, he was the foundation of that. And he loved everyone in the country, in the world really,
who served first responders and everyone like that. He's the one who drove the hero program.
He's the one who drove the Prescott 19. And like he built, you know, we were really proud,
especially when you had guys like me around too, but everybody within the organization was really
proud of those who serve and we put a priority. And so it made it like a great environment,
like a workplace. Like I really respected our stance on that and cared about first responders,
police, LEO, mill. And I think we lived that through the hero workouts and we express that
to the community through hero workouts and Prescott event and stuff like that. So,
so the reality is Greg really set the tone for that and drove that. And I really respect that
and appreciate it, especially because obviously my time in the service and you know, there's a
fuck man, like you mentioned, Kevin Houston. Yeah, I knew him and worked with him. And then there was
a phase where a lot of those hero workouts in CrossFit, like especially the SEALs, like I knew
those guys or I worked closely with them. Badger, Tommy V. So it was hero workouts to me were also
also a significant way of staying connected and acknowledging some of the guys
who I served with or who had the ultimate sacrifice.
Yeah. Well, I think for what I've seen in the communities that do it, I forget who it was,
I was talking to someone a while ago now, but it was a sense of being able to do something like,
you know, thank you for your service or whatever is nice to hear to certain groups. But when you
get a group of men and women, you know, driving themselves into the dirt in memory of someone,
they feel like that's an actionable thing, even though it's not actually helping the family or
unless it might be if it's a fundraiser. But it just, I think there's a sense of the civilians
of just showing the family, showing whoever's left from, you know, that fallen hero that, hey,
all the way in England, all the way in Iceland, you know, South Africa, we give a shit and we do,
you know, we thank you and we see you and we remember you.
Well, that's been what you're saying there is to be one of the most powerful things of the hero
workout for me to see is how much our community, regardless of where they are in the world,
unite behind them. So, I mean, for a large part, hero workouts, maybe to a fault have largely been
US centric and US focused, but yet that hasn't prevented our community at all globally. And
internationally to rally behind them. And so we even show Chad, Chad is another guy I knew.
He actually passed away a couple of years ago, we did the thousand step up workout for him.
And when I ended up posting it, like the international response that workout received
was tremendous and huge. You look at Murph and some of these other ones, they're just,
they're just, yeah, like it's crazy. It just, it even transcends just the, our nation and they're
so powerful to like the whole CrossFit community unites behind them and they kind of show their
respect. Absolutely. And Chad, I think, correct me if I'm wrong, that was a suicide. And I think
that was a discussion that needs to be had. And it was, again, those hero workouts are a great
opportunity to remove some of the stigma and get people talking, not just doing 22 push ups, but
actually fucking talking about this and create an environment where our men and women feel comfortable
to actually say they're hurting. Yes. Yes. Right. Well, staying on the military, I, Chris Hinshaw
actually had, you know, some input and also Jason Gardner, the CEO. They were asking about your take
on the change in the physical, you know, annual physical tests in the military. Obviously the army
just redid theirs. And they were wondering, you know, was there a CrossFit influence? And because
Chris even sent me a thing where I guess there was opposition to the most recent ones saying it
wasn't fair. So overall, you know, what, have there been any CrossFit specific influence on
annual tests? And, you know, what, what do you think of the most recent ones?
Well, I haven't paid attention much to the most recent ones. I've seen some of the Marine Corps
stuff. I think some of the army, like the deadlift stuff of here's the reality. Of course it's at this
stage, almost all been influenced by CrossFit. And a lot of people don't want to admit that or
won't admit that, but you know, I was in the military in a phase and decade where nobody was
doing functional movements like this, or if you were, it was very much the, you were an outlier.
And now functional movements in this type of training has become more than norm. And the reason
has become the norm is because of CrossFit. So, and, and, you know, weightlifting now is more
mainstream than ever. And that's good. And powerlifting and gymnastics movements, so much of
this stuff is more mainstream. And frankly, it's because of, because of this program. And, you know,
when you look at, when you look at functional movements at high intensity, the root of, of a
majority of that these days is CrossFit. There's a lot of spin-offs. There's a lot of variations.
There's a lot of people who even claim they're, they're not CrossFit, but you know, they came
from that. Look at, oh, no, I don't want to say it, but so anyways, yes, CrossFit has been an
inspiration for, for a lot of this stuff. And, and especially in some of those physical tests.
And there was a phase, I mean, we were doing CrossFit seminars across the military, you know,
dozen a year in Fort, I think it was Fort Hood. And there was a handful of bases where we were
like, it was, there were a lot of senior officials in the army and in the military who were,
who saw CrossFit, noted it, and were being heavily influenced by CrossFit.
There's also been phases where we've been more formally involved with some of these guys in
discussing and working on their, on some of their tests. And there's also been the bureaucracy of
some of them straight up with us, like, hey, because CrossFit is a, is a private company and
a name brand, you know, we're gonna, we're gonna use your guys methods and we're gonna use what
we've learned, but we can't, we can't give credit where credit is due. We've also had those
conversations and seen that stuff happen. So, but even that being said, I think they, a lot of these
tests from what I've seen, I still kind of missed the mark, still aren't as true and effective as,
as it could be. For one, like, you know, the reality is you should be testing every day.
Every opportunity, every opportunity, every training opportunity is a testing opportunity.
And that's where you really see the fitness level across all domains and time frames and
movements of, of your soldiers or of your cohort of people you, you lead. So to, it goes back to,
to only test, to only have, you know, a limited number of tests that you test every six months.
Well, what you eventually create there is create people who are just testing or training for the
tests instead of training for a complete fitness. And to train for complete fitness,
you need to be testing almost every day with your, with your, with your training protocol,
your training protocol is also your testing protocol. What has been your observation of
the first responder community? Because one of my frustrations as a firefighter has worked on the
West coast and the East coast is there's been an opposition to fitness standards being held,
annual fitness testing. So we're, you know, we put through, put through the ringer at the beginning,
some good departments maintain that, but it's a rarity that there's an annual test, even though
it's a norm in the special operations community. But so many of those men and women on these
conversations have said, well, we hold police and fire to the same level as us, you know,
you're protecting our family while we're gone. So we want you to be the, the best version of
yourselves as well. So in all this time that you've, you've been in the CrossFit world with,
you know, special operations background, what are the pros and cons you've seen in police and fire
that you've been exposed to? One of the big things I'll say with police is this is separate from
fitness, but they don't shoot enough. They need to shoot, they need, a majority of police officers
and police precincts need to give their, their cops more availability to train in shooting.
And, and if they do have the availability, they need to take advantage of it because that's such
a fucking critical skill for them and not only shot target identification, but just shot placement.
So I believe in general strongly that cops need to train more. And for both communities, you know,
I've sat down with a handful of senior firefighters who talk, who share stats with me on like the
obesity rate or the cardiovascular disease rate within fire departments. And it's, it's huge. And
it's so surprising to me that like, you guys have to rely on your bodies as do cops, as the military,
uh, and your fitness to be, to perform at a high level. And, and why, why would you guys have issues
with obesity in a fire department? Like it baffles me. It's, it, uh, I can't understand it. And it,
so I've been intrigued by this notion. And now that being said, some of the fucking fittest people
I know have also been firefighters, you know, Bill Grundler, Rich Froning, uh, who is, who's the guy
who's the guy in Florida. Ron Ortiz. Yes. Jay Max, a staff member of my, uh, the games team who, uh,
who, who qualifies as a, uh, master's athlete, but he's a full-time fire chief too. And so, um,
so, but, so I say that there's some that are not in good shape, but there's also obviously a lot
that are in premier. Matt Chan, Matt Chan's another, um, high level, uh, fitness performer and
firefighter. So I think there's a, I think those communities, police and fire need to take a little,
and the same thing with cops, but I've also seen a lot of really fit cops where all the non-fit cops,
there's some very, uh, high performing and fitness police officers, but for the most part, I think
those communities need to put more of a premium on staying in shape and on staying in a, uh,
in a ready state that, uh, probably a majority of them currently don't have a necessary ready state
to perform their job at a high level. That's probably lacking in a majority of those communities.
Yeah, no. And I agree. And that's the problem is it's a double-edged sword and they're both completely,
you know, addressable, but one is the ownership and there's no question. And I, I kept myself in
that shape my whole career, but it was despite the environment, not because of the environment,
but the other side is a lot of these men and women are working 56 plus hour weeks, you know, awake 24
hours and the effect of that kind of shift work on the human body, you know, destroys the testosterone
and some of these things that create that motivation. So the, you know, the most motivated do it
regardless, but there are a lot of people that in the middle, maybe if the environment was set up
a little better, maybe they would be where they need to be, but they're kind of dragged down by,
by their environment as well. And it's not an excuse. It's just a reason.
Yeah. Yep. I hear you.
So one of my friends, Eric Wheaton, who's a firefighter and a CrossFitter as well,
he was asking, you have the MD level one. Have you ever considered an FD or PD version,
like specific level one for those professions?
Yes, absolutely. But we haven't executed on it. We've had a lot of talk, a lot of discussion.
I believe it should happen. I don't know if it's, so I used to, so for all up until basically five,
six months ago, my primary goal or primary goal, my primary job in CrossFit was running the training
department with Nicole Carol. So all the seminars, all the level ones, all the staffing, we oversaw
that. And that was, you know, my main focus, even more so than the CrossFit games. A lot of people
don't realize that. With the recent change in ownership and the new leadership, I'm just
focused on the CrossFit games and no longer in that training world as much as I was before.
But throughout, so in that period, yeah, we had a lot of talks with people who were like, hey,
let's stand up a course for firefighters or let's do a course for cops. At the time,
and I kind of agreed with it, but I think there was room for something in the middle.
Greg Glassman didn't really believe in catering the level one to specific groups. And even honestly,
the MDL one, there's nothing different with the MDL one while we were doing that. We don't do that
anymore. But while we were doing that, then the current level one, and Greg would be the first
person to say that. He'd say, hey, the MDL one curriculum is the same as any other curriculum.
But is there room for level ones where the curriculum is tailored towards, let's say in this
example, firefighters or police officers? Yeah, I think there is. And maybe that's more online,
especially in the current landscape than it is and as an in-person course, or maybe even more
online modules in terms of addressing those specific communities. And the only thing I would
say about that is it shouldn't be created by me. I only mean that it should be created by people
within that community. Meaning like Matt Chan and Ron Ortiz as firefighters should lead the
creation of what the level one, understanding the level one, you know, tenants, some of them won't
change, would look like for firefighters. Same thing with cops. Freddie Camacho and a handful
of others. Andy Rio should get together and even George Ryan and figure out what like a CrossFit
level one for police officers would look like. So yes, I think that's something we should explore.
It's definitely, I mean, I'll be honest, it's not like a priority right now. There's a lot of things
we need to make it through the current global pandemic before I think our focus would be on
something like that. Absolutely. Well, speaking of that, just touching on that for a moment. So one
of my frustrations with this last year has been clearly the message of isolation, social distancing,
masks, wash your hands has been delivered squarely to the face. What's been frustrating for me with,
you know, first responder background or wellness background is the message that while we're,
you know, socially distancing a lot of stuff, we need to be discussing the elements of overall
wellness that cause a more acute reaction when you get the virus, obesity, diabetes, all these things.
So through your lens, what has been your view of that discussion this last year?
Well, I mean, you've summed it up precisely how it the problem with it. Here's the thing,
wearing a mask is a tiny behavioral change. Staying six feet away from someone is a tiny
behavioral change. Washing your hands is a tiny behavioral change. Asking someone, telling someone,
telling people you need to change your diet and myself because it's part of what's killing you
is a massive behavioral change and a massive economic change in terms of some of the industries
that would be affected by some of those assertions we make or not we but the people who'd need to say
them and, you know, and would be could be insulting to some of the current cohorts of people where,
you know, it's not popular to talk about being obese rather than blaming, highlighting that
COVID targets some of those things and some of those individuals to a degree where it's more
effective if you are overweight. While people don't want to highlight that and kind of highlight
the necessity of wearing a mask or the necessity of social distancing because those are, again,
they're easier to do and they're easier to make people feel good about than telling people, hey,
you're being overweight and being pre-diabetic is going to put you at more risk. And the thing is,
there are some doctors and there are some people who say that stuff but it's not being emphasized
or highlighted enough as it should be. This should be a major reset for society and our nation in
terms of the emphasis of fitness and health on everyone because I feel like that piece of it is
being ignored, that COVID really ravages people with comorbidities specifically, stuff like
metabolic conditions, metabolic disease. Absolutely. Well, I think the lens that we
have in EMS and FHIR is also we see the end of obesity. We're the ones that stick the
tubes down their throats and paddles on their chest and are doing CPR. And so, it has become
a tricky ground to navigate but yeah, while we make obesity okay and call it fat shaming,
if you question it, people don't realize that there's a death toll to that. And we see it
every day, morbid obesity equals an early death. It's that freaking simple. So, there's a difference
between fat shaming, being a giant asshole making fun of someone because they're obese and bringing
the epidemic of obesity to light because you truly care about those individuals and you know that
their quality of health is going to be terrible if they don't turn around their nutrition and
their movement. Absolutely. Right. Well, one more area I want to get to before we transition to
some closing questions. There's been, I guess, a wave now of a new kind of, I guess you could say
mud run crossfit style events, which is the tactical games. One thing that I actually want
to answer it myself, I'm absolutely white belt with weapons, but one thing that I really like
about the philosophy is, and please correct me if I'm wrong, you're probably far more versed than I
am. It seems like these events are focused on, you have to navigate whatever obstacle distance it is,
but it has to be done to a point where you're then able to operate finite movements through
whatever kind of weapon scenario it is. That has huge applications to police, to fire, where
we have a massive exertion and then may have to make a life or death situation, whether it's
using a firearm in law enforcement, whether it's pushing a drug as a paramedic. So what is your
view on that kind of tactical game movement? Well, I'm a huge fan of fitness, obviously,
and I'm a huge fan of the shooting sports. When I got out in 2010, I became an avid competition
shooter. A friend of mine, Dave Ray, who worked for CrossFit at the time, introduced me to the
shooting sport of USPSA, and I fell in love with it. I actually wish, and I actually promote,
but people don't have time, enough time to do this necessarily. But if you're active duty military,
or if you're in law enforcement, seek out and find shooting sports, specifically stuff like
USPSA or PRS and long range shooting, if you're a sniper or SWAT team. Because those sports,
even though they're a game and there's a sport aspect to them, a lot of the speed and a lot of
the skills you get out of those translate well to our job. And so I did not find those sports
as a civilian, I'm sorry, as when I was in, but I really wish I would have because they would have
maybe that much better of an operator. But so to this day, I'm an avid shooter, I shoot in a lot
of different competitions. Last year, actually in USPSA, they have a new division called
PCC, which is pistol caliber carbine. And I set a goal to achieve their the highest rank that I
could without having to travel to multiple matches across the country just based off the rating
scale. And I did well at that. And I got to their their highest level and put a lot of time and
effort into it. So like the shooting sports for me, they're a huge part of my life, and I love them.
And fitness also is a huge part of my life. So naturally combining them makes a lot of sense to
me. And here's the deal. I'm a huge fan of the tactical games, because they're combining two of
those things that I care a lot about. And I'm a fan of them exposing fitness people to shooting
and shooting people to fitness, and doing something with them. But I am not a fan of the style that
they go about doing it. So it's it's really not for me. And so I don't ever discourage anyone from
doing them. I think you know, if there's shooters out there who want to combine the fitness, go for
it. If there's fitness people out there like Jacob Heppner, a CrossFitter who also shoots,
he's talking about doing one. And I said, Hey, dude, I'll even train you for it. And I'll be your
coach and I'll prepare you in the shooting for that. He's a high level CrossFit Games competitor.
But for me, the way it's done, especially with the wearing the tactical gear, the body armor and the
pistol belts and like, it's too much. It's it's almost trying too hard. Like it's, I don't want
to put that gear on and run around all day. I've been there. I've done that. I don't need to I don't
need to play tactical dress up essentially. And I'm being when I'm telling you this, and I guess now
I'm telling the world, understand I'm being an incredible fucking snob. I am I'm being like,
because I've been at the highest levels of the game, I'm being a snob. And I don't feel like
I want to do that for sport. Well, I think there's another expression of it where and maybe CrossFit
will do this, where it's it's really fitness and it's really shooting. And when I say really fitness,
meaning like, yeah, we don't have this requirement. And we're not making any tactical planes. I don't
think they're making tactical planes either. But that's just in their name. But like, you know,
we're doing fitness, you're doing row 1000 meters with no gear on get up and, and shoot some targets,
stuff like that. And we actually CrossFit. So interestingly, we did do the first one of these
probably six or seven years ago, if you Google Google CrossFit firefight, it's a video that'll
come up with some high level crossfitters, actually, Rich Froning did it, and some high
level shooters JJ Ricasa, who's one of the fastest shooters in the world, also did it, he ended up
winning. But so we played around with concepts like this. And even that expression of it, to me,
was a better expression that I would enjoy. And that's like, yeah, independent of having to run
around and wear body armor the entire time, and a tactical pistol belt, because that that the aspects
of tacticality call it, turn me off, because I just like, hey, there's a realm for that. And
I believe that's not it. But again, I would never discourage anybody from participating in tactical
games. I think it's great that they're bringing the two together. But it's not for me. And it's
not the way I would do it. And that being said, we'll CrossFit do something in the future,
where it's more in line with my vision. I think so. I really hope so. I'm going to push for that
direction. But I also don't want it to be seen as trying to get into their space, because it's going
to be a very different expression of it. Yeah, well, I'm so glad that I asked that question,
because I think, as you said, there's different types and some, you know, one might appeal to one
group and one might appeal to another. I totally get what you're saying, because I know there's
rucks and things that my friends do is, oh, it's 36 hours, you're ruck all night. Dude, I was awake
24 hours at a time for 14 years. I'm going to bed every fucking night from now till I die.
Yeah, exactly. But from the other side, I love that idea. And I'm really excited to see what
you guys are bringing in, because to me, as a civilian who owns a gun, you know, especially
an Englishman, which is really weird, you know, and I'm sure a lot of law enforcement, once they've
come out of the academy, it's like, what have I got to train for now? So what a great way to just
give you a goal, just like you talked about with, you know, passing SEAL training, give someone
who's been on for a while a fresh challenge that is actually firearms related versus, you know,
just a CrossFit event, because I think adding that other element really does, you know, put
shooting under duress and then brings in breath control and, you know, deregulation of the nervous
system and all these things that are very, very applicable to police, fire and EMS.
Yep, exactly. Absolutely.
Beautiful. Well, I want to transition some closing questions so I can, you know, be mindful of your
time. The first one I love to ask, is there a book that you love to recommend that can be related to
what we've discussed today or something completely different? Wow, great question. Here's the deal.
I'm an avid reader. Last year, I think I read 45 different books. In the last three or four years,
I've read close to 200. And I almost exclusively, I'd rather say what not to read, I almost exclusively,
and this is going to sound very different from most recommend. I don't recommend leadership books. I
don't recommend pop leadership books. I don't recommend inspirational books. I don't recommend
most modern books. I'm a huge fan of the classics and things that essentially books that have survived
the test of time. And so I think a lot of the modern, I think a lot of the pieces people
choose to read kind of are just like, just trash. I think a book really needs to survive
decades and centuries of criticism. And those books, when you do read some of the classics,
there's a reason why they've survived centuries. There's a reason why they're still immensely
popular over all that time. They're also incredibly impactful to learn leadership lessons,
to learn inspiration, to be inspired, to be motivated, to glean something that will help
your business. So I don't use reading as a mechanism, unless I'm studying on a topic,
but that doesn't count towards the reading I'm talking about. I don't use reading as a mechanism
to find direct inspiration. I read it as a mechanism to find indirect inspiration.
So meaning I read books so off topic from what I'm doing or my line of work or what I do
to help inspire me in my line of work, in what I do and in what I'm pursuing. So I'm all over the
map, but like in terms of the classics that I read, a lot of Steinbeck, because he's a Bay Area
writer, Les Mis, I always recommend that. The Count of Monte Cristo is an amazing user-friendly
initial classic for people to get into because it just, the vocabulary and it's so accessible.
There's some classics that are overwhelming and there's others that are challenges.
The Odyssey, Iliad, Homer stuff. I read a lot in that realm. Go to your local bookstore and pick
even Hemingway. So many great authors to choose from, but I recommend to people get out of your
comfort zone. Don't read what you're expected to read and don't read what everyone else is reading
because there's some huge value in going against the grain and I do that with my reading. Now
on that, I want to rant a little about this because oftentimes people don't ask me about it.
I read every morning. First thing I do when I wake up, anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour and a half.
No kidding. If I like the book a lot, I'll read for an hour and a half in the morning. Then throughout
the day, if I have a short little break or if I want to step away from Instagram, I'll read for
five to 10 minute sections throughout the day. And before I go to sleep, I read anywhere, another,
I'll say probably anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour in the evening. And I buy the book.
I always have the paperback or the hardcover version of the book and I always buy it on my iPhone.
And by having them in both places, that's how I'm able to read and stay disciplined in reading so
much. Because you always have your phone on you and if you have it set on the page, you left it off
in the paper. You go to a car or you go to a medical appointment or you go to the car,
there's you go get your car serviced. There's so many opportunities that you'll see once you
put a priority on reading to read in different environments or different places, especially if
it's on your phone. So having it on my phone has been a huge key to me being able to read a lot.
And so when I'm reading, when I'm really into a book, I can average 50 to 100 pages a day easily.
If I don't have any work going on or like this little vacation or on a weekend and I really
don't have much I'm doing, I can sometimes get 150 to 200 pages a day. And the other thing about
that is though, that wasn't overnight. I feel like I had to, just like everything else in life,
I had to train to that point. I started reading a little. I really got into reading hardcore
four or five years ago. I've always been into reading, but really four or five years ago,
I'm just like, I made it a huge part of my life. And when I fly now, if I'm flying across country,
I won't download a single movie and there's a, I can read for an entire four or five hour flight.
And again, it's just like, it's, it's just, I've been conditioned to this point now where I,
where I really enjoy it and frankly need it. And it helps me in so many levels to, to, to
to disconnect from real life and disconnect from work and family and everything else going on and
just kind of be immersed in this other world that is, it's oftentimes very significant and
powerful in its message. Beautiful. Well, thank you. I mean, that's something that I found myself
working towards really, if I'm getting completely honest, because I have guests on that written
books. So it forced me to start reading a lot more. But I mean, what you said about stepping
outside your comfort zone. That's what I've done with this, this podcast too, is, you know, it's
the, if you look at the absolute core, it's first responders and then outside of that military and
then civilians, but the solutions, it might be, you know, I've had child soldiers from Sierra
Leone, I've had, you know, ballet dancers, I mean, all kinds of people, but it's amazing how these
lines start to intersect on these, you know, human levels. And there's so much to learn from people
way outside of our professions. Exactly. And on that note, it's so sad seeing what's happening in
society with some of the division and people not wanting to talk to or not having any tolerance
for people of opposing views. And that's, it's tragic that it's going that direction. But I think
when you have people like us who aren't afraid to explore other ideas and the outer limits of thought,
it's completely understandable and totally not, hey, people having differing views is necessary
for the world and society. Like there's nothing wrong with that. And they should be, it should
be celebrated, not stifled or, or censored or shut down. Absolutely. Well, one thing I've learned
from this as well with the guests, I mean, you know, I don't agree with a hundred percent of
every single person that's come on. However, I've seen a tendency where a person can do 90, 95%
right. And everyone focuses on the 5% they got triggered by. And I'm not talking about horrible
people that are like, Hey, I love everyone except, you know, whatever. I'm just saying, you know,
we all have, whether it's a religious kind of bias or, you know, whatever it is, but there is this
push to disregard all the good that someone's done in the world because they said something,
offended someone, whatever. Yeah. I mean, we kind of saw that with Fred Glassman. I'd say so.
Yeah, absolutely. But, you know, but it is a very important point. And, you know, I've, I've, I've
watched with my own eyes, the impact, the cross feds hound on my, on my life. I see it all over
the world. So when that burn it all down thing happened to me, I was like, are we, are we, are
we kind of overreacting a little bit? Cause all I've seen is, is good things, but yeah, that's just
my lens. All right. Well, the same questions we have with the book, what about a movie and,
or a documentary? Okay. So in the last three or four years, I really haven't watched a lot of movies
because I read so much. So I'm not current, I would say on, on most, most of the movies of late. I
will say I'm a big fan of the star Wars series. So anytime a star Wars movie comes out, I'll,
I'll take it in as a huge fan of Bruce Lee. So enter the dragon is a significant movie for me.
I'm a huge fan of the rock, obviously because of what that, how that changed the career,
the path of my life. And let's see what other movies I think that that pretty much,
that's a good initial list without putting too much thought to it. In terms of documentaries,
I'm thinking of sports documentaries, obviously our CrossFit games movies. I like those.
Um, but at this phase right now, I'm not, I'm not doing a lot of docs either just because of,
like, so time is precious and what you do with it is very valuable or, and what you choose to do
with it is, uh, is important. And so I just, at this stage of my life, last three, 45 years,
I don't choose to spend much time watching movies. I'll do sports. I like watching football. Uh,
some time I like watching basketball during the playoffs and the finals. And, uh, I'm really into
boxing. Some MMA fights I'll watch, but, um, yeah, that pretty much sums that up.
Beautiful. All right. Well, then the next question, is there a person you'd recommend
to come on this podcast as a guest to speak to the first responders, military and associated
professionals of the world? Yeah, I think someone like, so if you want to talk about like high level
shooter who was also a first responder, he was, uh, in law enforcement, JJ Rickaza. He's one of
the best shooters in the world, uh, now currently and great guy lives in Florida. Uh, Tony Blower,
if you haven't had Tony Blower on the pod podcast, highly recommend him. Super intelligent. Uh,
and he's changed the landscape of, of combatives, uh, to a degree that not many have and, and super
thoughtful and super insightful. Who else? Uh, if you want to go really outside your box and talk
to someone who's, who has a lot of good thoughts on some of this, uh, stuff around health and COVID,
my good friend, Sevan Matosian, he's a, he's a Berkeley Y. He doesn't live there anymore,
but we, it's, it's amazing that we're, he worked for CrossFit for a very long time and we're really
good friends, but he's, uh, got powerful thoughts and opinions on things. And, um, it really
respectful of our community, really respectful of the military and law enforcement and just an
intelligent guy. He'd be someone that would be fun to have on. Uh, let's see who else? Um, yeah.
When the timing, when the time is right and I don't know when that is going to be, but I hope
it's sooner than later. You should have someone like Greg, you should have Greg Glassman on, um,
Greg Glassman. It was funny. I did a podcast with someone and they basically referred to you like,
oh, well, can never have him on or something like that. And I'm like, why not? If the fucking guy's
not dead, you know, like he's not, he's not, he's not in prison. He's not dead. He's done nothing
wrong. Like this whole note, this notion of, to me of his existence, almost being erased is so fucking
weird. Now I don't think he's ready, but there'll be a point when he is ready to do it. And, and
like, he, I can't wait to see him come back and, you know, talk a little, uh, cause he's, here's
the thing about Greg. He's a fucking genius and what he created is been, is changed the world,
uh, for the better. Crossfit. And, and it's, he's, he's a, um, he's a one of a kind individual that
we are lucky to have had create this program and, and create the movement that he did. So, you know,
and just like everyone else, every individual is flawed and has their, their issues. And so,
you know, no one ever said he was perfect. No one ever said I was perfect. Neither of us are claiming
it, but, um, if you look at what he did and the body of work, what he contributed to, so speaking,
like when you talk about the community that you're talking to, that man has done so, and we talked
about some of it, that man has done so much for these communities, um, on so many levels. So you
should have him on. Yeah. No, I would love to. I've reached out to him before. We've got a mutual
friend, TJ Cooper, one of the Crossfit OGs, who's a, you know, an incredible member of that community
and also a retired SWAT officer. So, I mean, he, he walks the walk and is an amazing man. Yeah.
Greg, Greg, uh, Greg loved TJ Cooper. Greg's known TJ way longer than he's known me. They were,
they were really close. Um, and Greg really respects and loves everything about the military
and, uh, LDO and fire. He, he has, he's been one of the most generous people to that in that,
in these communities, if not more, I've seen him be generous to multiple other communities
that have kind of, it's kind of been forgotten or not highlighted at all through all of this.
His generosity was, uh, was huge. Absolutely. Well, he's more than welcome on the show. I
can't wait to get him on. Now, just one other thing I forgot to, to, to just, uh, ask you about
another community. And obviously it's completely entwined with, with our professions because of
the, you know, the, the nature of the job is the adaptive community. So I, am I right in understanding
there's an adaptive, um, portion to the games this year in the open? Yeah, we, yeah. In the open,
we added an adaptive division. So the adaptive community has been doing CrossFit for a very long
time and different events and competitions have been having adaptive divisions at the CrossFit
games. We had a little adaptive, um, uh, workouts that were kind of more demos than actual
competition. And so this year we decided to add it to the open. What it looks like at the games,
we don't know yet, but the first step for us is huge. And it's a, it's a, it's a complex road to
go down. And frankly, it wasn't a road we were ready to go down without that scene in CrossFit
having developed and matured in terms of understanding what they wanted from us.
What I mean by that is like years ago, people were saying, Hey, let's have adaptive stuff in
the games. Okay. What's that look like? Well, I don't know. We'll just have an adaptive division.
But the problem is there's so many different variants to what can go like what the, uh,
physical limitation is. Right. Think of like lower leg amputee, upper leg amputee, uh, arm amputee.
Uh, it just like, there's a ton of different injuries that individuals can have. And fundamentally
at the CrossFit games and in CrossFit, we're measuring fitness across equal cohorts. And,
and there we didn't have, we on our own, didn't have the division thing figured out. So this year
we decided to ask some of the experts in the CrossFit community in that field, Alex Erkenbach,
Kevin Ogark, and a handful of others. We asked, Hey, well, what do you guys recommend? How about
you guys get together and you figure it out and you tell us what it's going to look like.
And they came back and said, Hey, here's our plan. How about we have eight divisions? These
are the divisions. We define them. They created it. And so really the massive, the masters,
the masters, I'm sorry, adaptive division have been, it's being driven by and created by those
in that, in that division. And that's exciting. And that's the way it needed to happen. They
needed to take the lead on it. The thing is it took us a while to actually hand them that torch
and let them do it. I think they would have been ready to do it a few years ago, but I don't,
we weren't ready and we didn't, we didn't bring them in too.
Beautiful. Well, it's very exciting. Actually one of the seated female from,
she was the top 10 in the Wheelward games is in my gym, Charlotte Murrell-Smith. So looking forward
to seeing how that pans out. Beautiful. All right. Well then the last question before we make sure
everyone knows where to find you online, what do you do to decompress these days?
Well, shoot. I spent every day I'm shooting. I shoot a pistol, rifle, not really shotgun,
but most of the shooting I'm doing. Well, I like to say this about shooting. I do, I don't shoot
for fun, even though I'm decompressing, I'm training while I'm shooting. I'm shooting for
an objective. I'm shooting to train for a hunt or to train for a competition, but I really,
it is a form of decompressing for me because I really do enjoy the process and the journey of
working on my gear and actually shooting and then reading. So like I covered earlier,
I like to read a lot. And then I also have to intertwine spending time with my family, which
I need to spend, I need to get better at, but we've been together. I feel like we've been together
nonstop through all of this because of COVID. And yet even in that, sometimes when I sit down and
think, I'm still not there enough, interestingly, you know, because I have so much with work and
some of the other shooting stuff I do. It seems sometimes I need to be able to just stop and not
do things. And I need to be better at that and be there with my family and just like without
anything happening. And I'm working on that. Excellent. All right. Well then the last question
then, if people want to find you online, reach out, learn more, where are the best places online?
I think my Instagram account, at the Dave Castro is my big account, mainly CrossFit related,
95%. Sometimes I'll post other things on there, but recently, probably last year, I created a
hunting account. It's at TDC hunts. And that's where I put all my shooting stuff, all my hunting
stuff. Some of it will, I'll sometimes cross over and put on my main account, but I couldn't, I had
to create another account only because I couldn't see my main account having that volume, the actual
amount of hunting and shooting content that I wanted to put out. So I created this separate
account just for that. And every day there's a gun or a hunt or a shooting, and I'm like,
hunt or some competition I've done, something on there. And that's why I created a separate
account just because it's dedicated to that where my main account crosses over mainly to CrossFit
and things related to that. Were you hunting before you entered the SEALs or was it something
you found more recently? More recently, actually. I mean, I obviously have been in that train,
shot a lot as a SEAL, got out. Then when I moved back up here to Northern California two or three
years ago, we had a big pig problem and we have deer and we have turkey. And so I kind of, I shot,
I know how to shoot. I knew, know a lot about that world. So I'm like, well, why am I not more into
hunting? So I went on a hunt with a friend in Texas, enjoyed it, came back and said, all right,
I'm gonna start getting into this here. And so I've been hunting for the last couple of years
a lot and I really enjoy it. It's a nice outlet for the shooting. So again, like when I talk about
training for shooting, I'm training for a competition. Now also I'm training for hunting. So it all
crosses over seamlessly. And did you do any bow hunting at all? I've seen the veteran community
buy into that pretty well. Yeah, I've done a little this year, this last year. I have a nice bow from
Hoyt. I'm not as into it as shooting, but I killed a turkey last year. I killed a wild pig with the
bow. So I've done a few little hunts with it, but it's not like, here's the thing. It's just not as
much of a passion to me as shooting. I know some people really get passionate about it, but that
didn't hit for me. Brilliant. All right. Well, Dave, I just want to say thank you so much. I know how
busy you are. I know the Open's about to unfold. So I'm truly honored that you carved some time for
this conversation. But I know there's so many people listening that really have been affected
by CrossFit. Like I said, I got into it in 2006. So 14 years, it absolutely changed my life and
made me functional as a firefighter in my whole career. So just thank you for being so generous
with your time and telling your story today. Thanks a lot. I appreciate you having me on.