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This episode is sponsored by 511 Tactical, a company that I've used for around 14 years now and continue to use to this day.

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And they are offering you, the audience, a 15% discount. Not on one purchase, but continuously.

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And I'll give you that code in just a moment.

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But I want to do a product showcase on their new Atlas sneakers and boots.

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So I'm a big believer in the fact that footwear can either improve our health or break down our health.

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And on top of that, they're lightweight despite having the same protection that's required in the tactical space.

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So I have a pair of Atlas sneakers myself and I can attest they're extremely comfortable.

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On top of footwear, of course, 511 offers a gamut of uniforms and equipment.

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And to learn more about the company 511 Tactical,

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you can listen to episode 338 of the Behind the Shield podcast with the CEO, Francisco Morales.

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This episode is brought to you by GovX.

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And as you know, I only have companies on here that I truly use and believe in myself.

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And GovX is a complete no-brainer.

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And on top of that, it's not just for active duty, but also retirees, veterans and volunteers.

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So for our professions, having to purchase so much of our equipment, every single dollar counts.

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And understanding that, GovX has reached out to you, the Behind the Shield podcast audience, to offer you an additional saving.

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On your first purchase of $50 or more, if you use the code SHIELD, S-H-I-E-L-D,

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they will give you an additional $15 off your first purchase.

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And another layer of GovX is GovX gives back.

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Every month, they're going to sell a different patch.

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And the proceeds from that patch goes to a charity that supports either first responders or military.

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So as I mentioned before, go to GovX.com, G-O-V-X.com, register for your free membership and save every single time you purchase.

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Welcome to episode 414 of Behind the Shield podcast.

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As always, my name is James Gearing.

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And this week, it is my absolute honor to welcome on the show, Dave Castro.

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Now, many of you probably recognize Dave from the CrossFit Games and the CrossFit community,

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but lesser known, he was also a Navy SEAL at the highest level.

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And for a brief moment, the CEO of CrossFit.

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So I really wanted to discuss with him the tactical side through the lens of the military through first responders.

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So we discuss a host of topics from entry standards, maintaining tactical fitness,

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the importance of hero wads, competitive shooting, martial arts and so much more.

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Now, I do want to note the first few minutes we had a slight audio issue,

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which was very quickly remedied in the rest of the conversation is crystal clear.

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Before we get to that conversation, as I say every week, please just take a moment,

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go to whichever app you listen to this on, hit subscribe, leave feedback.

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I truly love reading your feedback and leave a rating.

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Every five star rating elevates this podcast, making it easier for others to find.

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And this is a free library for you, planet Earth.

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So all I ask in return is that you help share these incredible men and women's stories

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so I can get them to everyone else who needs to hear them.

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So with that being said, introduced to you, Dave Castro. Enjoy.

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Well, Dave, I want to start by saying thank you so much for coming on the Behind the Shield podcast today.

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Thanks for having me.

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So where on planet Earth are we finding you right now?

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I'm in California. I live near about an hour south of San Jose.

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And I'm at actually the ranch I grew up on, which also is the home of the CrossFit Games,

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the first three CrossFit Games.

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And actually this year we just we had this year's CrossFit Games here too, because of all the COVID issues.

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Beautiful. Was it despite the bad environment around why it was there,

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was it kind of cool to kind of go back to the roots and have it there this last year?

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Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, for me, it was it was maybe once in a lifetime opportunity at this stage.

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And I only say that because the the notion of the CrossFit Games being held in its entirety

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at in Aromas back at the ranch is frankly impossible because we won't run the games anymore

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without fans and large numbers of fans.

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But this environment created a predicament where it wasn't an impossibility.

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It was actually a great solution to the problem to bring it back here because we couldn't have fans.

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So, like, you know, as bad as everything's been with COVID, it was it caused this unique environment

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to where we could have the games here. And it made complete sense.

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Beautiful. Well, I love to walk people through chronologically.

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So let's start at the very beginning. So I don't know if a lot of people know about your back story.

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So where were you born? And then tell me about your family dynamic, what your parents did and how many siblings?

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I was born in San Jose, California, and I grew up there until I was about second grade.

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And then from that point, we moved down to Aromas to this ranch and we moved to this property.

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And this is where I grew up with my brother.

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He was seven years older than me. And my parents, my dad, he was a and my mom.

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My dad was a truck driver. My mom worked for the trucking company that my dad ran.

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My brother also was a truck driver and a truck mechanic.

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And that's kind of why we moved to this 65 acre property.

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He wanted his trucking operation co-located with where he lived.

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So he built out the built out a big shop and a big section of the property dedicated towards the trucking company.

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Interestingly, that lifestyle and that type of work had a lot of reason.

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It was a lot of the motivation for me to join the Navy.

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I did not want to be a truck driver and I did not want to be a truck driver or a truck mechanic.

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So I saw how hard of work that was.

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And I'm not saying I'm adverse to hard work, but I saw the type of work it was and I saw the hours and what my brother and my dad put in.

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And how much they put into it.

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And I was just like, this isn't for me. I need to find something else. I need to do something else.

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And that's where I was. I actually went for two or three months before dropping out to enlist in the Navy.

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Gotcha. Well, then with that, did you have any members of military in your extended family that kind of inspired you to go that direction?

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My grandfather, he was in the Korean War from my mom's side.

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And he was kind of, you know, it felt like at that time in my family, not a lot of members were in the military.

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So he was one of the early or one of the influences from, you know, our earlier generation.

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One of my cousins, who was my brother's age, he was seven years older than me too.

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He also he had gone into the Air Force.

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But other than that, and then my cousin, who was my age after I went into the Navy, he went into the Air Force.

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But other than that, there was not a lot of military influence in my life, especially in my immediate family.

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There wasn't a lot of military influence.

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Well, obviously, you ended up being a super high level performer.

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Were you an athlete or a sportsman when you were a school age?

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Well, so I think that's also when I look back at my youth and how I ended up becoming a SEAL and why I did that.

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I think my athletic, my lack of athletic success in high school was part of the motivation for me to to try to go to that route.

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Essentially, you know, I played football.

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I was on our high school football team for all four years.

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I think I started one game once and like I was not a stellar player on the team by any stretch of the imagination.

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I tried out for basketball. I didn't get picked.

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I dabbled in wrestling a little, but I really wasn't into that.

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And so I was average to below average athlete in sports at high school.

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But I really love sports and I really love the physicality of testing myself and pushing myself.

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But but nowhere near what I would have liked to have seen with the high school career in sports.

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One thing I later learned I should have probably been heavily involved with, but I didn't get involved with at all, was running like cross country.

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Because once I decided to become a SEAL and started training for for for that path, I started running a lot and I was pretty good at running.

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Still this day, if I train, I'm pretty good.

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So when I'm running, I think I would have had more success if I would have gone a cross country route in high school than some of the team sports I tried.

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I reached out to some SEAL friends, some cross fit friends like Ronald T's and one of them is George Ryan.

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And he mentioned what a great striker you were.

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So did you get into martial arts when you were younger or was that more when you were actually into the tactical space?

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No, so that's another thing that was in my youth. And so I've always been into the martial arts and the striking sports, especially not really into grappling and that sort of thing.

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But so the boxing for me, you know, while I was studying all those martial arts, having a heavy bag and having a speed bag at home was was an easy way to continue training.

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So so as a kid and growing up, I played a lot with those items.

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And so I was always into striking and boxing.

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And even to this day, I still enjoy punching a bag, punching a speed bag and just go playing with those skills.

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I also I never box like I never took formal instruction as a kid.

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I kind of wish I did. And I never box on any sort of amateur level or anything like that.

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But I just didn't feel like where I was growing.

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It wasn't a lot growing up. Didn't feel like there was a lot of opportunities for that.

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I think there actually was. I just didn't find them.

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But it's something that I really enjoyed and loved.

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And even to this day, I'm a huge fan. I think boxing might be my favorite sport to watch.

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Beautiful. Well, what about at the high school age, as far as career aspirations, you knew you didn't want to be a truck driver.

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Were you thinking about the military even those final few years?

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No, absolutely not. And it's funny because I was kind of I didn't know what I wanted to do.

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I knew I needed to go to college. I knew I'd figure out what I wanted to do in college.

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But essentially, once I graduated from high school, that summer, I went to the movies with my girlfriend.

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And the movie we end up seeing was The Rock and The Rock with Nick Nicolas Cage and Sean Connery.

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It's about this group of Marines who take over Alcatraz and then they call in the Navy Seals to to rescue all the hostages and retake over the island.

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Well, the Seals end up getting all killed. The Marines shoot them and take them out.

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But when when they came into the movie and into their scenes, they were all dressed in black.

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They had their scuba gear. They just built them up. They're really cool looking.

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They had these little underwater submarines and everything about them was like super to me, intriguing and cool.

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So I left that movie. Remember, this is the summer after I graduated high school.

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Super intrigued by those guys, by the Seals.

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Now, growing up as a kid at the ranch, I played with a lot of GI Joes. I shot on the ranch.

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I was already kind of into that stuff. I knew of Navy Seals, but I never thought I wanted to be one.

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But so then I left that movie and I was like, man, those guys that look really cool.

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I wonder what it's like. I wonder what it's like to do that or wonder what it takes to be one of them.

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And so I do what I did then and what I still do to this day.

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If I get into something, I really study it and read about it and consume all the content that I can on the topic.

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So I started Googling or not Googling.

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I started buying books and started researching and actually the Internet was out there around this time.

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So it was 96. I don't know if it was Google, but I started using the Internet to look into it and

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buying all the books I could find, all the Marcinko books, Dick Couch.

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There was a few other books at that time on the topic.

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Watched the movies, rewatched Navy Seals with Charlie Sheen and just consumed all the content I could on the thing,

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on the seals and the organization. And the one thing I, one of the reoccurring themes that kept coming across

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in all of this was their training. And of course, I'm going to say this, but it's at this, especially in this day and age,

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it's a lot of people debate it or argue, but we won't do that.

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But the content I was reading was saying how their training is the hardest training in the military

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and they're the hardest special operations and the hardest selection process to get through to

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was to become a Navy Seal. So once I started seeing that reoccurring theme, something hit, something pop.

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And it was this notion, do I have what it takes to do that? And so that was just lingering in my mind.

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I wonder if I can do that. Do I have what it takes to do that, to make it through their training?

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And it was just bugging me and it was just like there and it was just, it was haunting me.

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And I kind of started processing everything and I realized I wanted to know if I had what it took.

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And I realized, you know, a lot of that motivation was I still at this time felt like maybe I had

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something to prove, especially because of the athletic foundation, which I just told you about

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wasn't stellar. So I started going back and forth. Well, I can try this or I can delay it and wait

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till after college. I eventually told my parents, hey, I want to do this. And they're like, no,

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we recommend you finish college. You should do college. And then after that, you can decide if

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you want to still join the Navy. So I started college two, three months into college,

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something clicked. And I just had this vision of if I don't drop out of school now and pursue this dream,

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a decade from now, 28, 29, 30 years old, I'll have a professional life doing something. I don't know

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what in a standard job. And I'll be looking back wondering, I wonder what would have happened with

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my life if I would have tried being a SEAL. And I didn't want to have that. I didn't want to have

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that haunting me for the rest of my life. Because I thought if I stay in school for four years,

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for four years, things will change. I'll fall in love. I'll go in a different direction.

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I'll start a family. I'll get a job there. There was no I didn't believe in myself that I could do

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four years of college, and then still want to be a SEAL. I just thought things would change.

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So I dropped out. I dropped out of college at two or three months in, enlisted in the Navy,

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and started training really hard for to prep to go to BUDs. And then like four or five months after

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I dropped out was when I ended up getting shipped off to boot camp in in May, been a Great Lakes,

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Great Lakes, Illinois. And then from there, I went to a school which is a vocational school

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at the time I was a parachute rigger. And then from there, I went to BUDs. And I was very fortunate

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to actually make it through in one the class I started with is the class I finished with.

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And I wasn't injured. So injuries are a big thing. Or I wasn't rolled back being rolled back for

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performance is another big thing. And then of course, the third thing is quitting. And I wasn't

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I obviously didn't quit. So I had a very good run through the program.

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Absolutely. Well, that's that's rare. Because I mean, a lot of them, the, you know,

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seals that I've had on here, they did get rolled back usually because of injury.

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So obviously, you had that, you know, longevity and the mindset. One thing I ask all of the special

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operations, you know, men and women that come on here. What when you look back, had you done

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right to prepare physically? What did you do wrong? And then ultimately, what was the,

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the thought in your mind that stopped you ringing the bell and so many other people did?

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I believed in myself and I believed I could make it and I still felt this like I had to

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prove something like I really, I didn't I couldn't quit and I felt I so many people told me not to

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do it. And I felt like so many people were doubting me, even though my family ended up

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being incredibly proud of and supportive of me. I felt like my dad, especially kind of

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didn't believe I could do it. And so I really felt like I had something to prove to them. But

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more importantly, I had something to prove to myself. And and I knew, here's the thing,

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by the time I got there, here's the other thing I realized. I, by the time you get there, I realized,

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wow, I am so fucking close to doing this. Like, you know, less than a year before that, I was

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thinking, I wonder if I have what it takes to be a Navy SEAL. Now, I, I'm in the fucking training

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to be a Navy SEAL. And it was it was frankly surreal. Here I am, what 18, 19 years old,

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I think it was 19, 19 years old at the time. And I'm from from hiding this idea a summer ago or so,

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to now, like I'm in it, and I'm going through the training. That that weighed on me heavily,

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and I was not gonna let that opportunity slip by me. And that's like a big macro vision of kind of

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what I'm talking about. But like, even if I dive into that question a little more, to give you a

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specifics of how I like what helped me make it through, there was kind of this notion in my mind,

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and I've given people this advice when they're training to go to BUDS, or if they go to BUDS,

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is like, you got to break it down into small segments. Because if you don't, if you just look

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at it in its entirety, it is incredibly overwhelming and daunting. And what I what I mean by that is,

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so even what once you make it through Hell Week, let's say, I don't know where it is now in the

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training. Back then, Hell Week was like five or six weeks into the training. Well, people would

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assume incorrectly that making it through Hell Week was like after that, it would get easier.

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It did not get anywhere easier at all. Actually, it probably ramped up. And but at that point,

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you wake up, or you go to bed, and you're like, Oh, my God, I still have five months of this to

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go through. I've already been through a month, and I still have five. And that is daunting. Even

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check this out, even when you hit the halfway point thinking, I still have three more months of

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this daunting, even when you hit, you're almost done when you have a month left, four or five weeks

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of that just non stop relentless torture and abuse, it weighs on you heavily. So so for me,

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there was a point where that really started that what I'm explaining there hit me and was weighing

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on me. And so finally, in my own mind, I had to deal with it somehow. And the way I decided to

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deal with it was all right, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to make it to the next meal.

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And so Bud's was really like they fed us really well. And so you we had breakfast, lunch, and

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dinner and like you'd go to the chow hall, the galley, the mess, whatever we called it, and you

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could eat a lot of food. And so eating was never an issue. And those were like anchor points of the

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day. Here's the thing about those just to eat every day, we ran six miles a day. So why I say

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that is the place where we ate was one mile away from our barracks. So we'd run to breakfast,

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we'd eat, then we'd run back, then we'd still do a four mile time run or some other evolution.

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Then we'd run to lunch a mile and we'd run back another mile. And then later you'd run to dinner,

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and then you'd run back. So so for me, I said, All right, all I need to do every day is just make it

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to the next meal. And that's what I threw out the entire process. You know, when I wake up in the

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morning, well, let's say after breakfast, we're getting hammered, we're sitting out in the ocean,

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they're making us do push ups, they're making us do all this stuff. I was like, All right, don't

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worry about this. All you need to do is survive till lunch. And then I make it to lunch. And I'm

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like, that's a huge victory. Now all I need to do is make it to dinner. And I just kept thinking

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that over and over and just repeating that over and over and over. And I knew I knew it'd be I knew

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the the pain I was going through now would be so worth it. In the end, I really believed it. I

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really believe like becoming a Navy SEAL was going to be life changing and defining of me in so many

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ways. I had no idea to what like to be how immense that would be in in my life, obviously, but I knew

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it was going to be such a important thing for me to accomplish. So it was there was no doubt like

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in my mind, I never I could say like I and I say this confidently, like I really don't feel like I

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ever felt like quitting because of all those things that just described to you, like I had to cope with

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things I had to, I had to figure out how was it to get to that point. But quitting to me,

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it just didn't, I don't think it was there. Well, a couple things out of that. Firstly,

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I think if everyone had to run a mile for their breakfast, lunch and dinner, we'd definitely

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address some of the obesity epidemic that we have in this country. Yeah. But secondly, the the micro

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victories are very important thing. I think that's one of the issues that we see in so many problems

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in society is the end goal is say, let's say obesity, you want to lose 100 pounds, where you're

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looking at 100 pounds instead of, you know, this is what I want to achieve today or this morning.

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And using that mindset, not just obviously for completing SEAL training, but just anything in

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life. Absolutely. Yep, for sure. Right. Well, an interesting perspective that you have,

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because I know your career went from 98 to 2010 is you're one of my guests that spanned 911. So

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through your lens, what was your training like pre 911? And how did it change post 911? And the

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reason I asked that is in my profession, I think some of the the better departments do a lot of

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kind of what if training, you know, pre planning and trying to come up with scenarios, and therefore

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are somewhat ready when you know, the the fire ground or the battleground shifts, the obviously

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conversely, there are some that don't and are caught by surprise. So what did you, you know,

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what shift did you observe in your time in the service? That's a great question. And one thing

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I always like to remind people love about that is so yeah, my I enlisted in 97, 98, 97. And

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um, I enlisted pre 911. And that's like a big, and actually, this is silly, but I still go here

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in my own mind. And I'll tell you why it's silly in a minute. Sometimes I, I've gone to a place where

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I really respect the people who enlisted after 911. And I thought, hey, would I have done the

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same thing? Because here's the reality. If you enlisted after 911, in that, in that, let's say

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that decade immediately after 911. So I mean, there were fucking high probability you were

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going to go to war and you might not make it back. So I, and I know I still would have, but I still,

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I still wonder like, so I really, I really respect all the individuals who enlisted after 911,

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because frankly, I enlisted during peacetime. And there was not much in the world going on in that

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phase eventually. So after buds, I made it to a seal team and that was 98 timeframe, February 98.

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And so for the, I was a seal for a couple of two, three years where we trained even after 911

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training was a obviously a huge piece of everything to do, but we sent so much time training, even on

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the deployments where we deploy, I was at Silking force. So we deployed to South America. We spent

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a lot of time training, well deployed. And, and it felt like, it just felt like this endless cycle

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of we're always being prepared. We're always going to be ready for these missions we train for. But

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even in the only short three years before 911 that I was a seal, you do get to this point where you're

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like, fuck, we're never going to do anything. Like we're never going to get to, we're never going to

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get to do what we're training for. I even felt that tension in, in my, in my service time. Well,

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then 911 hits and it's like, and I remember where I was, I was in Wyoming on a sniper trip with some

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other snipers, the team I was working on, we were training the BEI Bureau of Indian Affairs. We were

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working with some of their individuals and I woke up that morning, we had Glacier, Glacier National

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Park, Glacier Hotel. I forgot the hotel was called. And I walk into the lobby and everyone's like

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huddled around the TVs. And like, I look at the TV and I was like, holy shit. And even now saying

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it, like I'm getting chills, like just remembering that moment. And it's like, wow, everything's

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fucking different. And here's the, here's the craziest part about that for me too, when that

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all went down, I should even, I should have led with this because it made the story more powerful.

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But when we went out there to train with the BEI, the Bureau of Indian Affairs, they're kind of like

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the FBI, but for Indian reservations. And one of the initial days we went to train with them,

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we walked into their facility and it's, it's, you know, kind of like an FBI facility. And so they

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have on their wall, a top 10 list, a top 10 FBI top 10 wanted list. And I remember looking at that

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list and I remember seeing Osama bin Laden on that list. And I just like read, read his bio,

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processed it. And I was like, yeah, this is Tripp, like, this is a guy. And by this point,

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I think the coal bombing had already, like a lot of that other stuff had happened. And I remember

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seeing that in the BEI, the Bureau of Indian Affairs facility and just like, huh, okay,

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just noting it. And then no shit, a couple of days later, 9-11 happened. And then, you know,

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obviously within a few weeks, we'd figure out that was all tied together. And so that was kind of

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like a powerful time for me. Interestingly. So we all thought right away, you all think like,

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shit, we're all going to war. We're all going to like, we're all going to get really busy,

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really fast. That's the, the, the weird thing to me at that period was that didn't happen.

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And like, especially there were some people, there were some units, there were some

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SEAL teams who did go right away, but it wasn't blanket, like all of them. And I was at SEAL Team

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4. And so we still went on our scheduled deployment to Afghanistan. I'm sorry, not Afghanistan,

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South America. We still did our job. And we kind of got to this place where you're like watching it

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and you're seeing all this stuff go on, but you're not getting to, you're like, we're, we're not there.

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So then there was a phase where, all right, there was another goal I had. And, and you know what,

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like, I'm not going to talk much about it because I really believe strongly in, in what I did and

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the secrecy with it, but I'll just breeze over it lightly. And I, and I, I'm a strong believer that

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I'm, I, I draw a line in discussing some of this stuff, but to, to go, to get to that level of,

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of going to combat, there was another step I had to take. And so I volunteered to do that step. I

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took that step, kind of a, it was another challenge. I had to go through another selection process.

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I made it through that selection process. And, and I went to a team where, yes, right away,

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I was seeing combat. I was going to deploy into Afghanistan and deploying to those places. And,

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and frankly, like, because I'm still in close contact with the, the, the, the, the, the, the,

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this group and, and people, like, I just don't talk about it. And I won't talk about it because

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it's a, it's a significant part of my life. It's a significant achievement. And there's so many

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other people out there who, who do talk about this stuff or who do talk about being at this unit or

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those units and do, I don't want to say profit off of, but lean on and, and, and make their identity

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off of it, but I won't do that. So that, that's frankly, like the, that's where I will like,

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leave that phase of my military career up for people I don't want to talk about. It's not to

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share with the world. Well, thank you for at least, you know, giving that part of the story. I mean,

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I feel honored that you were, you know, able to tell us that. And obviously the rest is those who

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know, know. So one thing I do like to ask though, and, you know, if you're again, wanting to, to

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convey what you saw, anyone in the military does not have any special operations. One thing

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any of us that haven't served, myself included, we get two polarizing views of war. You get the

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kill them all, let go sort them out lens. And then you get the, you know, they're all baby killers

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lens and there's nothing really in the middle. So I like to ask the men and women that were out there,

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you know, of, of, of a perspective. So regardless of politics, regardless of whatever sends a person

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into a combat zone, you know, there's obviously things that usually they see that then, I mean,

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at that point, not even so much justify, but they see some of the evil in the world and, you know,

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and it then gives them a very micro mission as well. So in your time over wherever you were,

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were there any moments where you're like, oh shit, now, now I really see firsthand some of

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the horrific things that these people are doing to their own people, for example.

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It's similar. Like what I'm going to say there is yeah, like, um, there's, I, I, and maybe this is

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unhealthy, but there's a lot of stuff I keep in and I don't want to shit like here, here, let me

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paint a T this way. There's stuff I won't tell my family and or my closest friends. There's a lot of

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friends who, who I would consider, there are a lot of people who are very close to me and my best

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friends and I don't share any of these stories. So therefore what I'm saying is, you know,

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I'm definitely not going to share this stuff on a podcast. Um, it goes all, it goes all directions,

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though. I'll say that the inhuman, like some of, sometimes everyone can be fucking, um,

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everyone can cross the line, you know, like it's, it's, it's, it's, um,

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doing stuff like that at that level, you see a lot of things.

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Yeah. Well, I think that's just important. So again, I, I just, I think that's, I think

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that's important. So again, I, I just purely want to put it out there. People, you know,

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want to walk through that door. That's absolutely fine. Um, but I think what I'm trying to get

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across, and I don't need any more from you at all, but it's just that what we're asking our men and

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women to do, you know, it is absolutely immense. And we, as the people who never deployed, who never

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put on that uniform, even though I wore a different uniform, it's, it's, we need to know what these men

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and women are truly doing, what they're sacrificing, what their families are sacrificing. So, you know,

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Absolutely. That, that sacrifice and what we do is tremendously immense. And, um, it's, it's,

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the depth to it is, is insane. And interestingly, like when we were doing it, when I, specifically

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me was, was there, like, I'm not thinking of, I'm not thinking of the nation. I'm not thinking of,

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like, we're doing the polit, political environment. I'm not thinking of our president. All I cared

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about was the guy that the left and right of me. And that's what I thought about. And that's what

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I like, okay, we're going to succeed in our mission, whatever work has to do, we're going to go after

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this guy or that guy. But at the end of the day, especially when you're on target, the thing that

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mattered most to me was the person to the left and right of me and like that my teammates, to, to,

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to a degree that like, it's, you wanted, you wanted to get back with everyone you went out with.

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And, um, and that's like, was that kind of became my motivation. I think I was politically or, um,

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ignorant back then in terms of like, I just didn't engage. I wasn't paying attention to like,

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even I, I wish I was way more in tune to the wise we were there and to like, what, but I was so

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immersed in the training and the prep and the team and the guys that like all the big picture stuff,

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I wasn't paying attention to at all. And I'm not saying others weren't others on our team or not,

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but just me personally, like I didn't, I wasn't in that head space.

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Beautiful. So, so tell me about when you came across CrossFit itself and then if you applied

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that in any way, shape or form in the strength and conditioning with your fellow SEALs.

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Yeah. So the unit I was at, I was an early adopter of CrossFit. I was digging the climbing and like

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climbing was my passion. And so I started climbing, um, with some of the big names at the time in

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Alpinism, Mark Twight and Steve House and a few of these other guys who were like legends in the

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scene. And Mark Twight actually, I asked him about his training, how he trained. And he had wrote a

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book about, um, he had wrote a book on training for Alpinism. Cause I thought like some of the

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missions we were doing and the stuff we were doing overseas, I related that very much to Alpinism and

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some of the high, the way they climb these mountains, their, their long efforts, even

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though they try to climb them, uh, light and fast, but they're still, you know, half a day, full day.

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And they also are obsessed to a fault with, uh, making their gear super light. And I was that way

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too, with, with the way I operate and a lot of other guys work too, you know, if you had a lighter

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kit, you could move faster. So I looked towards that scene for light, for, for making, for best in

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class equipment choices, especially around cold weather gear and for climbing equipment, obviously

373
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cause I was into climbing and for fitness because I, I kind of related the two. Well, Mark Twight

374
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:50,200
had wrote a book on, uh, it was called extreme Alpinism and it was on how to train for, for that

375
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:55,640
type of climbing. And it was all LSD stuff, long, slow distance. It was like long bike rides, long

376
00:35:55,640 --> 00:36:02,200
runs, and that's kind of after an initial phase. So this was probably five or six years into the

377
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:05,640
team. So that was kind of the direction I started going with training. I thought, okay, I need to

378
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:10,200
train long to go long. Well, so eventually I've met him and went on a climbing trip with him.

379
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:14,040
And I asked him about the book and I asked him about the training and he's like, Hey, I don't

380
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:18,040
do that stuff at all anymore. I go really in a blooming way. He's like, yeah, I do something

381
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:23,560
else. And I go, what's that? He's like, I do CrossFit and he starts telling me about CrossFit.

382
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:29,000
And the thing about Mark Twight is he's very unassuming and he's a really small guy. And I

383
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:35,960
was a small guy amongst big guys, like amongst seals. I was below average in stature. I am not

384
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:42,200
muscular. I didn't have big, big arms and big legs. And, um, most of the seals I was around were

385
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:48,360
bigger than me. And so Mark near me was much smaller than me. And I was kind of unimpressed.

386
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:53,240
I'm like, ah, well, this guy's telling me to do CrossFit, but look at him. Like I'm not out here

387
00:36:53,240 --> 00:36:57,480
to look like him. If anything, if I cared about looks, I'd rather look like the rest of the seals

388
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:04,440
that I was working with. And, um, so, but kind of the same concept as when we look back to when I,

389
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:10,120
when I saw the frog, what did that do? It planted the seed. And so what did I do? I started studying

390
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:14,840
it. I started going to the website every day. I started reading about it. I started reading all

391
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:19,640
the CrossFit journals and it was for me, it was kind of intimidating because the movements I had

392
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:24,520
never done before clean and jerks and so many of the barbell Olympic lifts they were doing, I had

393
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:30,200
never even tried. I wasn't exposed to them, not even for the four or five, six years at that time.

394
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:35,560
I'd been a seal. Nobody, practically nobody in the seal teams at that time was doing that stuff.

395
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:41,560
Those type of movements, independent of CrossFit, at least to the extent of what I was exposed to.

396
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:47,000
Maybe there was other teams or some guys were doing stuff, but I never saw it. And, um, so

397
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:54,840
for five, six months, I was just looking and studying, um, reading about CrossFit, paying

398
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:59,720
attention to it, but I never dove in. I actually convinced one guy on a deployment who was big

399
00:37:59,720 --> 00:38:05,320
into fitness to give it a try and, and he ended up doing, and he loved it. And he was like,

400
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:09,960
I loved it and saw great results from it. And he didn't know this, but at the time he was kind of

401
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:16,840
my experiment. I was, uh, he thought I was doing CrossFit too. I wasn't. And through him, I saw

402
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:24,360
his, how much he got from it and how much he progressed and he had really enjoyed it. So

403
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:31,560
eventually I decided to dive in and, um, I dove in and I dove in once on a deployment, a short,

404
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:37,800
short deployment, and I did it every day, followed the main site and I was really sore. I went,

405
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:44,680
remember going on missions at this time in this deployment. Um, we had a really high tempo and

406
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:49,000
we're doing missions every night, every other night. And I would sometimes be really sore and

407
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:53,240
I'd go out on a mission. And you know what? At the end of the day, I was fine. At the end of the day,

408
00:38:53,240 --> 00:38:58,440
it being really sore, like it didn't hold me back. Sometimes I pushed right through it. Uh, you kind

409
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:04,440
of forget about it. And so I trained religiously in it on deployment for that month, month and a

410
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:13,560
half and fell in love with it. And then eventually I got stationed out in California to go to DLI.

411
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:21,000
And while there, I knew that Santa Cruz was the epicenter DLI defense language Institute. It's

412
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:27,240
in Monterey. And I knew that that was the epicenter for, um, CrossFit, well, not Monterey,

413
00:39:27,240 --> 00:39:34,280
but Santa Cruz. And so I started, um, commuting to Santa Cruz. I was actually living at the ranch,

414
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:41,480
going to school in Monterey. And then some days I would commute to Santa Cruz to where the founder,

415
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:47,560
Greg Glassman and his gym, uh, they were located. And so I started training there and got to know

416
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:52,280
them, became really close with them, became friends with them, went to a seminar. Then they

417
00:39:52,280 --> 00:40:00,440
started asking me to help out at seminars and just, um, went all in basically any type of work. They

418
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:06,680
asked me to do any seminars. I said, yes, started going on the road with them, uh, started teaching

419
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:12,040
them, got stationed in San Diego as a Buds instructor. And so for, there was three years

420
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:19,160
from 2007 to 2010, whereas working full time for CrossFit and also full time Buds instructor.

421
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:26,360
Then it hit this point where I had to make a decision. Do I want to stay in? And if I stay in,

422
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:31,080
I'd have to go back to being operational, which means going back to a SEAL team where I'm deploying.

423
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:34,680
If I did that, I wouldn't be able to work for CrossFit. So I'd have to give up CrossFit.

424
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:40,440
Or do I get out and work for CrossFit full time already? I was already working full time.

425
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:45,400
I made the choice. I mean, CrossFit was providing way better for my, myself and my family than the

426
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:53,000
Navy would. I loved being a SEAL, but, and at this stage in 2010, I mean, I had already created the,

427
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:58,760
I was behind the games and the seminar program and so much of it was blowing up and becoming big.

428
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:05,080
There was, it was a unique phase in the development of CrossFit and I was at the center of it. And it

429
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:11,560
would have been silly for me to turn my back on that. So I decided to get out and go full time

430
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:16,360
CrossFit. I actually considered the reserve thing for a little bit, but then even at that time,

431
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:21,000
there were still guys deploying a lot, being pulled from the reserves to go to Iraq. And I just couldn't,

432
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:28,360
as much work as CrossFit was, I couldn't go on another deployment like that. So I decided not even

433
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:33,960
to do the reserve thing. So I got out. Now question for you. So a few,

434
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:41,400
there's two kind of transitions that I see. There's the ones where someone transitions

435
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:47,000
from military first responders and they have another tribe to go into. They have another purpose

436
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:52,120
and that transition usually seems to be pretty smooth. Then you get the other side where it's

437
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:57,000
the SEAL that identifies as a SEAL and everything's poured into that. And when they transition out,

438
00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:02,280
they struggle, the firefighter, the police officer. What was your transition like and what do you

439
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:08,840
attribute to it being good or bad, depending on your experience? Well, it was seamless and it was

440
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:14,120
seamless because I was very fortunate to have that community that I was already part of and that job

441
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:21,320
that I'd already been working for, for three, four years. And so for me, and one of the big things,

442
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:28,200
so while I was working for CrossFit from 2007, 2010, and active duty, early on, I made it clear

443
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:31,560
to Greg and I made it clear to Tony Budding, who was in charge of our media at that time,

444
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:37,960
and a few other people in the organization. I do not, and I cannot, I do not want you guys

445
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:45,080
to publicize me or to put me out as an AV SEAL. I go keep all of that stuff off of the internet,

446
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:50,040
keep out, like I can be seen in photos and I can be out there, but I'm not going to be out there

447
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:58,200
as an AV SEAL. And so there was a thick line in the sand and we didn't cross it. Even when I got

448
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:06,280
out for the first, I got in 2010, for the first three or four years, I had no, we really kept that

449
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:11,000
out of the front line. And I'm actually really proud of that. Even to this day, I meet people

450
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:14,840
who are still like, Hey man, I just found out you're an AV SEAL. I've known about you in CrossFit

451
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:20,280
for a decade, but I had no idea you're an AV SEAL. And every time I hear that, I smile and I think,

452
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:26,600
yeah, I did exactly what I needed to do. And I'm proud of that. I didn't want my identity in CrossFit

453
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:33,640
or my success in CrossFit to be defined by an AV SEAL. Even to this day, nobody, hardly anybody

454
00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:38,200
refers to, yeah, Dave Cash or the Navy SEAL. No, it's Dave Cash or the CrossFit guy. No, it's Dave

455
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:43,720
Cash or the guy who created the game. Dave Cash or the director of the games. It's nothing, the Navy

456
00:43:43,720 --> 00:43:49,800
SEAL piece of it is not the lead or primary. And that to me is a huge accomplishment that I'm proud

457
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:58,280
of. That being said, I'm also not naive in thinking that, Hey, you know what? Being a Navy SEAL did

458
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:05,160
get me in the door with Greg Glassman and the CrossFit cohort of people at the time, maybe further

459
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:10,600
than it would have if I wasn't a Navy SEAL. So I'm very respectful of that. And also though, what I

460
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:16,600
think in general and advice I give to people is, Hey man, that's great that you're a Navy SEAL or

461
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:21,160
fucking Marine or whatever you did. That's all good. But when you're trying to get to the next

462
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:26,840
level or you're trying to transition to a civilian world and civilian life, you need to let it go.

463
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:32,200
And meaning, Hey, that can't define everything about you at all times. And frankly, if you want

464
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:39,400
to be successful, you need to be afraid not to start over again. And meaning like start over,

465
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:43,560
like when I started working for CrossFit and doing seminars, I had been at the pinnacle of

466
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:50,200
my SEAL profession. But the first few jobs I had at seminars was taking the trash out and moving

467
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:56,120
chairs. And I had no issue with and setting up chairs for the classroom. And I had no issue with

468
00:44:56,120 --> 00:45:03,320
that. And I was humble and knew I was in a new environment and I had to prove myself and was

469
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:09,480
willing and able to start over and prove myself. I feel like a lot of people this day and age lean

470
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:15,800
so heavily on that identity and think that it should get so, it should open up so many doors.

471
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:22,120
And here's the thing, it can and will open up doors. But once that door is open, what you do

472
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:28,360
with it is the significant defining piece of it all. You can't, it can open the door and then

473
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:34,360
you've got to capitalize on it. You've got to make something happen and you've got to prove value to

474
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:42,120
to essentially the civilian communities or audiences you're now working with. But and

475
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:46,920
you know, in this day and age of Instagram and social media, I mean, you look at, I look at some

476
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:51,560
of these guys out there and what they're doing on their pages in relation to being SEALs and

477
00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:56,680
it's just kind of, it's kind of over the top. And at some point, like I feel like saying,

478
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:03,320
at some point you got to take this, just let it go, man. It's impressive. It's significant.

479
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:07,240
Yeah, you did it a decade ago. You did it five years ago, even if you did it two years ago. We

480
00:46:07,240 --> 00:46:11,960
get it. Like it's really great. And it's an amazing phase of your life. But there's a,

481
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:17,240
there's a like, you got to move on type thing going on. And I think a lot of guys struggle with

482
00:46:17,240 --> 00:46:23,640
with moving on and trying to find an identity independent of that. And it could be partially

483
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:29,800
because it's scary. And the other thing too, and it's, and I will say this, when I look at what I'm

484
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:36,200
saying, again, I'll say this, it's easy for me to say, and it's easy for me to say, because I had

485
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:41,640
this great opportunity with CrossFit and I transitioned out and I didn't need to lean on

486
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:47,720
being a seal and all of that. So, you know, that I recognize that I do recognize that.

487
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:52,680
Well, I think that's a really important thing to hear though, because, you know, as I said,

488
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:56,920
some people were fortunate enough to have that, you know, some of the guys in Echelon Front,

489
00:46:56,920 --> 00:47:02,600
they had that to transition to. But even, you know, I think if you're approaching retirement,

490
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:08,040
whatever you're in, it's understanding that you do have to start creating that next chapter. And as

491
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:13,160
you said, I'm so proud of my career as a firefighter, but I retired two years ago to focus on this,

492
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:18,440
because I thought this was the false mark, excuse me, the false multiplier on making a difference

493
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:24,680
in the world, but not wearing what I call the magic trousers, the fire gear. You know, it's,

494
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:30,120
yeah, it's emasculating to my ego, my fragile ego, but then you push that aside and realize,

495
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:36,440
well, there's more to life than just that one uniform. Absolutely. All right. Well, one thing

496
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:42,120
I want to talk about, we actually did, I ran a hero workout this morning, Kevin Houston, who's

497
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:47,960
one of the SEALs that died in Extortion 17. One thing that I've really admired and really did

498
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:54,520
draw me to CrossFit was the close relationship and the admiration with that community and,

499
00:47:54,520 --> 00:48:00,120
you know, the military and the first responders. And obviously the Prescott 19 workout in Arizona

500
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:05,640
was a huge thing for the fire service. So, you know, who was kind of responsible? What was the

501
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:12,280
kind of ethos as far as making sure that you embrace those communities? Greg Glassman. I mean,

502
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:20,200
Greg was, he was the foundation of that. And he loved everyone in the country, in the world really,

503
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:26,920
who served first responders and everyone like that. He's the one who drove the hero program.

504
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:31,800
He's the one who drove the Prescott 19. And like he built, you know, we were really proud,

505
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:35,960
especially when you had guys like me around too, but everybody within the organization was really

506
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:41,640
proud of those who serve and we put a priority. And so it made it like a great environment,

507
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:47,560
like a workplace. Like I really respected our stance on that and cared about first responders,

508
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:55,000
police, LEO, mill. And I think we lived that through the hero workouts and we express that

509
00:48:55,000 --> 00:49:00,920
to the community through hero workouts and Prescott event and stuff like that. So,

510
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:06,840
so the reality is Greg really set the tone for that and drove that. And I really respect that

511
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:11,400
and appreciate it, especially because obviously my time in the service and you know, there's a

512
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:15,640
fuck man, like you mentioned, Kevin Houston. Yeah, I knew him and worked with him. And then there was

513
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:21,320
a phase where a lot of those hero workouts in CrossFit, like especially the SEALs, like I knew

514
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:29,080
those guys or I worked closely with them. Badger, Tommy V. So it was hero workouts to me were also

515
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:35,960
also a significant way of staying connected and acknowledging some of the guys

516
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:41,400
who I served with or who had the ultimate sacrifice.

517
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:46,760
Yeah. Well, I think for what I've seen in the communities that do it, I forget who it was,

518
00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:51,880
I was talking to someone a while ago now, but it was a sense of being able to do something like,

519
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:57,160
you know, thank you for your service or whatever is nice to hear to certain groups. But when you

520
00:49:57,160 --> 00:50:04,040
get a group of men and women, you know, driving themselves into the dirt in memory of someone,

521
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:08,840
they feel like that's an actionable thing, even though it's not actually helping the family or

522
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:14,040
unless it might be if it's a fundraiser. But it just, I think there's a sense of the civilians

523
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:20,840
of just showing the family, showing whoever's left from, you know, that fallen hero that, hey,

524
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:25,320
all the way in England, all the way in Iceland, you know, South Africa, we give a shit and we do,

525
00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:29,240
you know, we thank you and we see you and we remember you.

526
00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:34,280
Well, that's been what you're saying there is to be one of the most powerful things of the hero

527
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:41,240
workout for me to see is how much our community, regardless of where they are in the world,

528
00:50:41,240 --> 00:50:47,560
unite behind them. So, I mean, for a large part, hero workouts, maybe to a fault have largely been

529
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:54,600
US centric and US focused, but yet that hasn't prevented our community at all globally. And

530
00:50:54,600 --> 00:51:02,360
internationally to rally behind them. And so we even show Chad, Chad is another guy I knew.

531
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:07,480
He actually passed away a couple of years ago, we did the thousand step up workout for him.

532
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:15,320
And when I ended up posting it, like the international response that workout received

533
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:19,080
was tremendous and huge. You look at Murph and some of these other ones, they're just,

534
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:25,880
they're just, yeah, like it's crazy. It just, it even transcends just the, our nation and they're

535
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:32,360
so powerful to like the whole CrossFit community unites behind them and they kind of show their

536
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:37,960
respect. Absolutely. And Chad, I think, correct me if I'm wrong, that was a suicide. And I think

537
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:43,480
that was a discussion that needs to be had. And it was, again, those hero workouts are a great

538
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:49,320
opportunity to remove some of the stigma and get people talking, not just doing 22 push ups, but

539
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:54,520
actually fucking talking about this and create an environment where our men and women feel comfortable

540
00:51:54,520 --> 00:52:03,880
to actually say they're hurting. Yes. Yes. Right. Well, staying on the military, I, Chris Hinshaw

541
00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:10,760
actually had, you know, some input and also Jason Gardner, the CEO. They were asking about your take

542
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:16,040
on the change in the physical, you know, annual physical tests in the military. Obviously the army

543
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:20,760
just redid theirs. And they were wondering, you know, was there a CrossFit influence? And because

544
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:25,480
Chris even sent me a thing where I guess there was opposition to the most recent ones saying it

545
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:33,320
wasn't fair. So overall, you know, what, have there been any CrossFit specific influence on

546
00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:36,280
annual tests? And, you know, what, what do you think of the most recent ones?

547
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:41,400
Well, I haven't paid attention much to the most recent ones. I've seen some of the Marine Corps

548
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:47,400
stuff. I think some of the army, like the deadlift stuff of here's the reality. Of course it's at this

549
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:52,920
stage, almost all been influenced by CrossFit. And a lot of people don't want to admit that or

550
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:58,680
won't admit that, but you know, I was in the military in a phase and decade where nobody was

551
00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:05,480
doing functional movements like this, or if you were, it was very much the, you were an outlier.

552
00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:10,360
And now functional movements in this type of training has become more than norm. And the reason

553
00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:15,320
has become the norm is because of CrossFit. So, and, and, you know, weightlifting now is more

554
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:20,680
mainstream than ever. And that's good. And powerlifting and gymnastics movements, so much of

555
00:53:20,680 --> 00:53:26,920
this stuff is more mainstream. And frankly, it's because of, because of this program. And, you know,

556
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:33,080
when you look at, when you look at functional movements at high intensity, the root of, of a

557
00:53:33,080 --> 00:53:38,840
majority of that these days is CrossFit. There's a lot of spin-offs. There's a lot of variations.

558
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:44,120
There's a lot of people who even claim they're, they're not CrossFit, but you know, they came

559
00:53:44,120 --> 00:53:52,520
from that. Look at, oh, no, I don't want to say it, but so anyways, yes, CrossFit has been an

560
00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:57,240
inspiration for, for a lot of this stuff. And, and especially in some of those physical tests.

561
00:53:57,240 --> 00:54:04,040
And there was a phase, I mean, we were doing CrossFit seminars across the military, you know,

562
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:11,560
dozen a year in Fort, I think it was Fort Hood. And there was a handful of bases where we were

563
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:18,360
like, it was, there were a lot of senior officials in the army and in the military who were,

564
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:22,040
who saw CrossFit, noted it, and were being heavily influenced by CrossFit.

565
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:26,920
There's also been phases where we've been more formally involved with some of these guys in

566
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:34,200
discussing and working on their, on some of their tests. And there's also been the bureaucracy of

567
00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:39,160
some of them straight up with us, like, hey, because CrossFit is a, is a private company and

568
00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:43,400
a name brand, you know, we're gonna, we're gonna use your guys methods and we're gonna use what

569
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:47,480
we've learned, but we can't, we can't give credit where credit is due. We've also had those

570
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:54,920
conversations and seen that stuff happen. So, but even that being said, I think they, a lot of these

571
00:54:54,920 --> 00:55:01,480
tests from what I've seen, I still kind of missed the mark, still aren't as true and effective as,

572
00:55:02,120 --> 00:55:05,720
as it could be. For one, like, you know, the reality is you should be testing every day.

573
00:55:05,720 --> 00:55:10,680
Every opportunity, every opportunity, every training opportunity is a testing opportunity.

574
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:17,640
And that's where you really see the fitness level across all domains and time frames and

575
00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:25,720
movements of, of your soldiers or of your cohort of people you, you lead. So to, it goes back to,

576
00:55:25,720 --> 00:55:32,120
to only test, to only have, you know, a limited number of tests that you test every six months.

577
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:36,680
Well, what you eventually create there is create people who are just testing or training for the

578
00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:40,680
tests instead of training for a complete fitness. And to train for complete fitness,

579
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:46,600
you need to be testing almost every day with your, with your, with your training protocol,

580
00:55:46,600 --> 00:55:51,480
your training protocol is also your testing protocol. What has been your observation of

581
00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:56,920
the first responder community? Because one of my frustrations as a firefighter has worked on the

582
00:55:56,920 --> 00:56:03,240
West coast and the East coast is there's been an opposition to fitness standards being held,

583
00:56:03,240 --> 00:56:06,680
annual fitness testing. So we're, you know, we put through, put through the ringer at the beginning,

584
00:56:07,240 --> 00:56:11,960
some good departments maintain that, but it's a rarity that there's an annual test, even though

585
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:17,480
it's a norm in the special operations community. But so many of those men and women on these

586
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:21,080
conversations have said, well, we hold police and fire to the same level as us, you know,

587
00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:25,000
you're protecting our family while we're gone. So we want you to be the, the best version of

588
00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:29,960
yourselves as well. So in all this time that you've, you've been in the CrossFit world with,

589
00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:35,080
you know, special operations background, what are the pros and cons you've seen in police and fire

590
00:56:35,080 --> 00:56:40,840
that you've been exposed to? One of the big things I'll say with police is this is separate from

591
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:47,080
fitness, but they don't shoot enough. They need to shoot, they need, a majority of police officers

592
00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:54,040
and police precincts need to give their, their cops more availability to train in shooting.

593
00:56:54,040 --> 00:56:58,200
And, and if they do have the availability, they need to take advantage of it because that's such

594
00:56:58,200 --> 00:57:04,360
a fucking critical skill for them and not only shot target identification, but just shot placement.

595
00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:10,680
So I believe in general strongly that cops need to train more. And for both communities, you know,

596
00:57:10,680 --> 00:57:18,360
I've sat down with a handful of senior firefighters who talk, who share stats with me on like the

597
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:26,440
obesity rate or the cardiovascular disease rate within fire departments. And it's, it's huge. And

598
00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:33,800
it's so surprising to me that like, you guys have to rely on your bodies as do cops, as the military,

599
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:40,760
uh, and your fitness to be, to perform at a high level. And, and why, why would you guys have issues

600
00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:48,040
with obesity in a fire department? Like it baffles me. It's, it, uh, I can't understand it. And it,

601
00:57:48,040 --> 00:57:52,680
so I've been intrigued by this notion. And now that being said, some of the fucking fittest people

602
00:57:52,680 --> 00:58:00,520
I know have also been firefighters, you know, Bill Grundler, Rich Froning, uh, who is, who's the guy

603
00:58:00,520 --> 00:58:09,000
who's the guy in Florida. Ron Ortiz. Yes. Jay Max, a staff member of my, uh, the games team who, uh,

604
00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:15,400
who, who qualifies as a, uh, master's athlete, but he's a full-time fire chief too. And so, um,

605
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:20,200
so, but, so I say that there's some that are not in good shape, but there's also obviously a lot

606
00:58:20,200 --> 00:58:27,960
that are in premier. Matt Chan, Matt Chan's another, um, high level, uh, fitness performer and

607
00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:36,040
firefighter. So I think there's a, I think those communities, police and fire need to take a little,

608
00:58:36,040 --> 00:58:40,520
and the same thing with cops, but I've also seen a lot of really fit cops where all the non-fit cops,

609
00:58:40,520 --> 00:58:47,640
there's some very, uh, high performing and fitness police officers, but for the most part, I think

610
00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:52,920
those communities need to put more of a premium on staying in shape and on staying in a, uh,

611
00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:59,880
in a ready state that, uh, probably a majority of them currently don't have a necessary ready state

612
00:58:59,880 --> 00:59:04,840
to perform their job at a high level. That's probably lacking in a majority of those communities.

613
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:09,800
Yeah, no. And I agree. And that's the problem is it's a double-edged sword and they're both completely,

614
00:59:09,800 --> 00:59:15,880
you know, addressable, but one is the ownership and there's no question. And I, I kept myself in

615
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:19,640
that shape my whole career, but it was despite the environment, not because of the environment,

616
00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:25,560
but the other side is a lot of these men and women are working 56 plus hour weeks, you know, awake 24

617
00:59:25,560 --> 00:59:31,480
hours and the effect of that kind of shift work on the human body, you know, destroys the testosterone

618
00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:37,560
and some of these things that create that motivation. So the, you know, the most motivated do it

619
00:59:37,560 --> 00:59:42,360
regardless, but there are a lot of people that in the middle, maybe if the environment was set up

620
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:47,560
a little better, maybe they would be where they need to be, but they're kind of dragged down by,

621
00:59:47,560 --> 00:59:50,520
by their environment as well. And it's not an excuse. It's just a reason.

622
00:59:51,480 --> 00:59:52,680
Yeah. Yep. I hear you.

623
00:59:53,720 --> 00:59:57,080
So one of my friends, Eric Wheaton, who's a firefighter and a CrossFitter as well,

624
00:59:57,080 --> 01:00:03,800
he was asking, you have the MD level one. Have you ever considered an FD or PD version,

625
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:06,200
like specific level one for those professions?

626
01:00:07,080 --> 01:00:13,160
Yes, absolutely. But we haven't executed on it. We've had a lot of talk, a lot of discussion.

627
01:00:13,160 --> 01:00:21,160
I believe it should happen. I don't know if it's, so I used to, so for all up until basically five,

628
01:00:21,160 --> 01:00:27,560
six months ago, my primary goal or primary goal, my primary job in CrossFit was running the training

629
01:00:27,560 --> 01:00:33,240
department with Nicole Carol. So all the seminars, all the level ones, all the staffing, we oversaw

630
01:00:33,240 --> 01:00:40,040
that. And that was, you know, my main focus, even more so than the CrossFit games. A lot of people

631
01:00:40,040 --> 01:00:46,040
don't realize that. With the recent change in ownership and the new leadership, I'm just

632
01:00:46,040 --> 01:00:51,560
focused on the CrossFit games and no longer in that training world as much as I was before.

633
01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:55,880
But throughout, so in that period, yeah, we had a lot of talks with people who were like, hey,

634
01:00:55,880 --> 01:01:01,240
let's stand up a course for firefighters or let's do a course for cops. At the time,

635
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:06,520
and I kind of agreed with it, but I think there was room for something in the middle.

636
01:01:06,520 --> 01:01:13,720
Greg Glassman didn't really believe in catering the level one to specific groups. And even honestly,

637
01:01:13,720 --> 01:01:18,760
the MDL one, there's nothing different with the MDL one while we were doing that. We don't do that

638
01:01:18,760 --> 01:01:23,000
anymore. But while we were doing that, then the current level one, and Greg would be the first

639
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:27,480
person to say that. He'd say, hey, the MDL one curriculum is the same as any other curriculum.

640
01:01:27,960 --> 01:01:34,280
But is there room for level ones where the curriculum is tailored towards, let's say in this

641
01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:40,440
example, firefighters or police officers? Yeah, I think there is. And maybe that's more online,

642
01:01:40,440 --> 01:01:46,840
especially in the current landscape than it is and as an in-person course, or maybe even more

643
01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:52,920
online modules in terms of addressing those specific communities. And the only thing I would

644
01:01:52,920 --> 01:01:59,320
say about that is it shouldn't be created by me. I only mean that it should be created by people

645
01:01:59,320 --> 01:02:05,720
within that community. Meaning like Matt Chan and Ron Ortiz as firefighters should lead the

646
01:02:05,720 --> 01:02:10,040
creation of what the level one, understanding the level one, you know, tenants, some of them won't

647
01:02:10,040 --> 01:02:16,840
change, would look like for firefighters. Same thing with cops. Freddie Camacho and a handful

648
01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:23,080
of others. Andy Rio should get together and even George Ryan and figure out what like a CrossFit

649
01:02:23,080 --> 01:02:30,680
level one for police officers would look like. So yes, I think that's something we should explore.

650
01:02:30,680 --> 01:02:35,720
It's definitely, I mean, I'll be honest, it's not like a priority right now. There's a lot of things

651
01:02:36,760 --> 01:02:43,720
we need to make it through the current global pandemic before I think our focus would be on

652
01:02:43,720 --> 01:02:48,200
something like that. Absolutely. Well, speaking of that, just touching on that for a moment. So one

653
01:02:48,200 --> 01:02:56,200
of my frustrations with this last year has been clearly the message of isolation, social distancing,

654
01:02:56,200 --> 01:03:04,280
masks, wash your hands has been delivered squarely to the face. What's been frustrating for me with,

655
01:03:04,280 --> 01:03:10,440
you know, first responder background or wellness background is the message that while we're,

656
01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:16,200
you know, socially distancing a lot of stuff, we need to be discussing the elements of overall

657
01:03:16,200 --> 01:03:22,440
wellness that cause a more acute reaction when you get the virus, obesity, diabetes, all these things.

658
01:03:22,440 --> 01:03:26,920
So through your lens, what has been your view of that discussion this last year?

659
01:03:28,200 --> 01:03:34,840
Well, I mean, you've summed it up precisely how it the problem with it. Here's the thing,

660
01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:41,960
wearing a mask is a tiny behavioral change. Staying six feet away from someone is a tiny

661
01:03:41,960 --> 01:03:47,800
behavioral change. Washing your hands is a tiny behavioral change. Asking someone, telling someone,

662
01:03:47,800 --> 01:03:52,200
telling people you need to change your diet and myself because it's part of what's killing you

663
01:03:52,200 --> 01:03:59,160
is a massive behavioral change and a massive economic change in terms of some of the industries

664
01:03:59,160 --> 01:04:06,520
that would be affected by some of those assertions we make or not we but the people who'd need to say

665
01:04:06,520 --> 01:04:16,040
them and, you know, and would be could be insulting to some of the current cohorts of people where,

666
01:04:16,040 --> 01:04:25,000
you know, it's not popular to talk about being obese rather than blaming, highlighting that

667
01:04:25,800 --> 01:04:32,120
COVID targets some of those things and some of those individuals to a degree where it's more

668
01:04:32,120 --> 01:04:37,160
effective if you are overweight. While people don't want to highlight that and kind of highlight

669
01:04:37,160 --> 01:04:44,680
the necessity of wearing a mask or the necessity of social distancing because those are, again,

670
01:04:44,680 --> 01:04:50,600
they're easier to do and they're easier to make people feel good about than telling people, hey,

671
01:04:50,600 --> 01:04:58,120
you're being overweight and being pre-diabetic is going to put you at more risk. And the thing is,

672
01:04:58,120 --> 01:05:03,000
there are some doctors and there are some people who say that stuff but it's not being emphasized

673
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:09,960
or highlighted enough as it should be. This should be a major reset for society and our nation in

674
01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:16,840
terms of the emphasis of fitness and health on everyone because I feel like that piece of it is

675
01:05:16,840 --> 01:05:25,800
being ignored, that COVID really ravages people with comorbidities specifically, stuff like

676
01:05:25,800 --> 01:05:33,320
metabolic conditions, metabolic disease. Absolutely. Well, I think the lens that we

677
01:05:33,320 --> 01:05:40,440
have in EMS and FHIR is also we see the end of obesity. We're the ones that stick the

678
01:05:40,440 --> 01:05:47,640
tubes down their throats and paddles on their chest and are doing CPR. And so, it has become

679
01:05:47,640 --> 01:05:55,480
a tricky ground to navigate but yeah, while we make obesity okay and call it fat shaming,

680
01:05:55,480 --> 01:06:00,600
if you question it, people don't realize that there's a death toll to that. And we see it

681
01:06:00,600 --> 01:06:05,720
every day, morbid obesity equals an early death. It's that freaking simple. So, there's a difference

682
01:06:05,720 --> 01:06:11,320
between fat shaming, being a giant asshole making fun of someone because they're obese and bringing

683
01:06:11,320 --> 01:06:17,800
the epidemic of obesity to light because you truly care about those individuals and you know that

684
01:06:17,800 --> 01:06:23,160
their quality of health is going to be terrible if they don't turn around their nutrition and

685
01:06:23,160 --> 01:06:30,120
their movement. Absolutely. Right. Well, one more area I want to get to before we transition to

686
01:06:30,120 --> 01:06:37,320
some closing questions. There's been, I guess, a wave now of a new kind of, I guess you could say

687
01:06:37,960 --> 01:06:46,040
mud run crossfit style events, which is the tactical games. One thing that I actually want

688
01:06:46,040 --> 01:06:50,600
to answer it myself, I'm absolutely white belt with weapons, but one thing that I really like

689
01:06:50,600 --> 01:06:54,600
about the philosophy is, and please correct me if I'm wrong, you're probably far more versed than I

690
01:06:54,600 --> 01:07:03,000
am. It seems like these events are focused on, you have to navigate whatever obstacle distance it is,

691
01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:07,560
but it has to be done to a point where you're then able to operate finite movements through

692
01:07:07,560 --> 01:07:14,600
whatever kind of weapon scenario it is. That has huge applications to police, to fire, where

693
01:07:14,600 --> 01:07:19,320
we have a massive exertion and then may have to make a life or death situation, whether it's

694
01:07:19,320 --> 01:07:24,840
using a firearm in law enforcement, whether it's pushing a drug as a paramedic. So what is your

695
01:07:24,840 --> 01:07:31,720
view on that kind of tactical game movement? Well, I'm a huge fan of fitness, obviously,

696
01:07:31,720 --> 01:07:39,240
and I'm a huge fan of the shooting sports. When I got out in 2010, I became an avid competition

697
01:07:39,240 --> 01:07:43,480
shooter. A friend of mine, Dave Ray, who worked for CrossFit at the time, introduced me to the

698
01:07:43,480 --> 01:07:50,920
shooting sport of USPSA, and I fell in love with it. I actually wish, and I actually promote,

699
01:07:50,920 --> 01:07:57,160
but people don't have time, enough time to do this necessarily. But if you're active duty military,

700
01:07:57,160 --> 01:08:05,080
or if you're in law enforcement, seek out and find shooting sports, specifically stuff like

701
01:08:05,080 --> 01:08:10,920
USPSA or PRS and long range shooting, if you're a sniper or SWAT team. Because those sports,

702
01:08:10,920 --> 01:08:16,440
even though they're a game and there's a sport aspect to them, a lot of the speed and a lot of

703
01:08:16,440 --> 01:08:24,280
the skills you get out of those translate well to our job. And so I did not find those sports

704
01:08:24,280 --> 01:08:29,240
as a civilian, I'm sorry, as when I was in, but I really wish I would have because they would have

705
01:08:29,240 --> 01:08:34,200
maybe that much better of an operator. But so to this day, I'm an avid shooter, I shoot in a lot

706
01:08:34,200 --> 01:08:40,040
of different competitions. Last year, actually in USPSA, they have a new division called

707
01:08:40,040 --> 01:08:46,680
PCC, which is pistol caliber carbine. And I set a goal to achieve their the highest rank that I

708
01:08:46,680 --> 01:08:54,440
could without having to travel to multiple matches across the country just based off the rating

709
01:08:54,440 --> 01:08:59,560
scale. And I did well at that. And I got to their their highest level and put a lot of time and

710
01:08:59,560 --> 01:09:04,680
effort into it. So like the shooting sports for me, they're a huge part of my life, and I love them.

711
01:09:04,680 --> 01:09:11,720
And fitness also is a huge part of my life. So naturally combining them makes a lot of sense to

712
01:09:11,720 --> 01:09:17,560
me. And here's the deal. I'm a huge fan of the tactical games, because they're combining two of

713
01:09:17,560 --> 01:09:22,680
those things that I care a lot about. And I'm a fan of them exposing fitness people to shooting

714
01:09:22,680 --> 01:09:27,720
and shooting people to fitness, and doing something with them. But I am not a fan of the style that

715
01:09:27,720 --> 01:09:33,720
they go about doing it. So it's it's really not for me. And so I don't ever discourage anyone from

716
01:09:33,720 --> 01:09:39,160
doing them. I think you know, if there's shooters out there who want to combine the fitness, go for

717
01:09:39,160 --> 01:09:42,920
it. If there's fitness people out there like Jacob Heppner, a CrossFitter who also shoots,

718
01:09:42,920 --> 01:09:47,080
he's talking about doing one. And I said, Hey, dude, I'll even train you for it. And I'll be your

719
01:09:47,080 --> 01:09:52,440
coach and I'll prepare you in the shooting for that. He's a high level CrossFit Games competitor.

720
01:09:52,440 --> 01:09:58,760
But for me, the way it's done, especially with the wearing the tactical gear, the body armor and the

721
01:09:58,760 --> 01:10:05,480
pistol belts and like, it's too much. It's it's almost trying too hard. Like it's, I don't want

722
01:10:05,480 --> 01:10:10,680
to put that gear on and run around all day. I've been there. I've done that. I don't need to I don't

723
01:10:10,680 --> 01:10:16,120
need to play tactical dress up essentially. And I'm being when I'm telling you this, and I guess now

724
01:10:16,120 --> 01:10:21,240
I'm telling the world, understand I'm being an incredible fucking snob. I am I'm being like,

725
01:10:22,120 --> 01:10:26,760
because I've been at the highest levels of the game, I'm being a snob. And I don't feel like

726
01:10:26,760 --> 01:10:32,440
I want to do that for sport. Well, I think there's another expression of it where and maybe CrossFit

727
01:10:32,440 --> 01:10:38,200
will do this, where it's it's really fitness and it's really shooting. And when I say really fitness,

728
01:10:38,200 --> 01:10:42,360
meaning like, yeah, we don't have this requirement. And we're not making any tactical planes. I don't

729
01:10:42,360 --> 01:10:46,680
think they're making tactical planes either. But that's just in their name. But like, you know,

730
01:10:46,680 --> 01:10:54,120
we're doing fitness, you're doing row 1000 meters with no gear on get up and, and shoot some targets,

731
01:10:54,120 --> 01:10:59,560
stuff like that. And we actually CrossFit. So interestingly, we did do the first one of these

732
01:11:01,240 --> 01:11:06,200
probably six or seven years ago, if you Google Google CrossFit firefight, it's a video that'll

733
01:11:06,200 --> 01:11:10,680
come up with some high level crossfitters, actually, Rich Froning did it, and some high

734
01:11:10,680 --> 01:11:15,320
level shooters JJ Ricasa, who's one of the fastest shooters in the world, also did it, he ended up

735
01:11:15,320 --> 01:11:22,600
winning. But so we played around with concepts like this. And even that expression of it, to me,

736
01:11:22,600 --> 01:11:28,040
was a better expression that I would enjoy. And that's like, yeah, independent of having to run

737
01:11:28,040 --> 01:11:33,800
around and wear body armor the entire time, and a tactical pistol belt, because that that the aspects

738
01:11:33,800 --> 01:11:42,600
of tacticality call it, turn me off, because I just like, hey, there's a realm for that. And

739
01:11:42,600 --> 01:11:48,040
I believe that's not it. But again, I would never discourage anybody from participating in tactical

740
01:11:48,040 --> 01:11:52,840
games. I think it's great that they're bringing the two together. But it's not for me. And it's

741
01:11:52,840 --> 01:11:58,760
not the way I would do it. And that being said, we'll CrossFit do something in the future,

742
01:11:58,760 --> 01:12:05,560
where it's more in line with my vision. I think so. I really hope so. I'm going to push for that

743
01:12:05,560 --> 01:12:12,200
direction. But I also don't want it to be seen as trying to get into their space, because it's going

744
01:12:12,200 --> 01:12:17,000
to be a very different expression of it. Yeah, well, I'm so glad that I asked that question,

745
01:12:17,000 --> 01:12:22,920
because I think, as you said, there's different types and some, you know, one might appeal to one

746
01:12:22,920 --> 01:12:26,920
group and one might appeal to another. I totally get what you're saying, because I know there's

747
01:12:26,920 --> 01:12:31,480
rucks and things that my friends do is, oh, it's 36 hours, you're ruck all night. Dude, I was awake

748
01:12:31,480 --> 01:12:36,600
24 hours at a time for 14 years. I'm going to bed every fucking night from now till I die.

749
01:12:37,640 --> 01:12:43,640
Yeah, exactly. But from the other side, I love that idea. And I'm really excited to see what

750
01:12:43,640 --> 01:12:48,600
you guys are bringing in, because to me, as a civilian who owns a gun, you know, especially

751
01:12:48,600 --> 01:12:54,200
an Englishman, which is really weird, you know, and I'm sure a lot of law enforcement, once they've

752
01:12:54,200 --> 01:12:59,560
come out of the academy, it's like, what have I got to train for now? So what a great way to just

753
01:12:59,560 --> 01:13:05,320
give you a goal, just like you talked about with, you know, passing SEAL training, give someone

754
01:13:05,320 --> 01:13:11,480
who's been on for a while a fresh challenge that is actually firearms related versus, you know,

755
01:13:11,480 --> 01:13:16,680
just a CrossFit event, because I think adding that other element really does, you know, put

756
01:13:17,560 --> 01:13:23,800
shooting under duress and then brings in breath control and, you know, deregulation of the nervous

757
01:13:23,800 --> 01:13:27,560
system and all these things that are very, very applicable to police, fire and EMS.

758
01:13:29,000 --> 01:13:30,840
Yep, exactly. Absolutely.

759
01:13:31,400 --> 01:13:35,640
Beautiful. Well, I want to transition some closing questions so I can, you know, be mindful of your

760
01:13:35,640 --> 01:13:41,400
time. The first one I love to ask, is there a book that you love to recommend that can be related to

761
01:13:41,400 --> 01:13:47,880
what we've discussed today or something completely different? Wow, great question. Here's the deal.

762
01:13:47,880 --> 01:13:55,480
I'm an avid reader. Last year, I think I read 45 different books. In the last three or four years,

763
01:13:55,480 --> 01:14:03,320
I've read close to 200. And I almost exclusively, I'd rather say what not to read, I almost exclusively,

764
01:14:03,320 --> 01:14:09,320
and this is going to sound very different from most recommend. I don't recommend leadership books. I

765
01:14:09,320 --> 01:14:14,760
don't recommend pop leadership books. I don't recommend inspirational books. I don't recommend

766
01:14:14,760 --> 01:14:22,920
most modern books. I'm a huge fan of the classics and things that essentially books that have survived

767
01:14:23,960 --> 01:14:30,280
the test of time. And so I think a lot of the modern, I think a lot of the pieces people

768
01:14:30,280 --> 01:14:43,160
choose to read kind of are just like, just trash. I think a book really needs to survive

769
01:14:44,120 --> 01:14:51,080
decades and centuries of criticism. And those books, when you do read some of the classics,

770
01:14:51,640 --> 01:14:59,480
there's a reason why they've survived centuries. There's a reason why they're still immensely

771
01:14:59,480 --> 01:15:08,600
popular over all that time. They're also incredibly impactful to learn leadership lessons,

772
01:15:08,600 --> 01:15:14,760
to learn inspiration, to be inspired, to be motivated, to glean something that will help

773
01:15:14,760 --> 01:15:21,320
your business. So I don't use reading as a mechanism, unless I'm studying on a topic,

774
01:15:21,320 --> 01:15:26,520
but that doesn't count towards the reading I'm talking about. I don't use reading as a mechanism

775
01:15:26,520 --> 01:15:33,000
to find direct inspiration. I read it as a mechanism to find indirect inspiration.

776
01:15:33,000 --> 01:15:39,240
So meaning I read books so off topic from what I'm doing or my line of work or what I do

777
01:15:39,240 --> 01:15:47,400
to help inspire me in my line of work, in what I do and in what I'm pursuing. So I'm all over the

778
01:15:47,400 --> 01:15:53,880
map, but like in terms of the classics that I read, a lot of Steinbeck, because he's a Bay Area

779
01:15:53,880 --> 01:16:00,040
writer, Les Mis, I always recommend that. The Count of Monte Cristo is an amazing user-friendly

780
01:16:00,840 --> 01:16:07,000
initial classic for people to get into because it just, the vocabulary and it's so accessible.

781
01:16:09,320 --> 01:16:15,080
There's some classics that are overwhelming and there's others that are challenges.

782
01:16:15,080 --> 01:16:26,440
The Odyssey, Iliad, Homer stuff. I read a lot in that realm. Go to your local bookstore and pick

783
01:16:26,440 --> 01:16:32,360
even Hemingway. So many great authors to choose from, but I recommend to people get out of your

784
01:16:32,360 --> 01:16:37,640
comfort zone. Don't read what you're expected to read and don't read what everyone else is reading

785
01:16:37,640 --> 01:16:42,760
because there's some huge value in going against the grain and I do that with my reading. Now

786
01:16:42,760 --> 01:16:48,360
on that, I want to rant a little about this because oftentimes people don't ask me about it.

787
01:16:48,360 --> 01:16:54,120
I read every morning. First thing I do when I wake up, anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour and a half.

788
01:16:54,120 --> 01:16:59,160
No kidding. If I like the book a lot, I'll read for an hour and a half in the morning. Then throughout

789
01:16:59,160 --> 01:17:04,280
the day, if I have a short little break or if I want to step away from Instagram, I'll read for

790
01:17:04,280 --> 01:17:11,240
five to 10 minute sections throughout the day. And before I go to sleep, I read anywhere, another,

791
01:17:11,240 --> 01:17:17,800
I'll say probably anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour in the evening. And I buy the book.

792
01:17:17,800 --> 01:17:23,320
I always have the paperback or the hardcover version of the book and I always buy it on my iPhone.

793
01:17:23,880 --> 01:17:31,080
And by having them in both places, that's how I'm able to read and stay disciplined in reading so

794
01:17:31,080 --> 01:17:35,800
much. Because you always have your phone on you and if you have it set on the page, you left it off

795
01:17:35,800 --> 01:17:40,520
in the paper. You go to a car or you go to a medical appointment or you go to the car,

796
01:17:40,520 --> 01:17:45,640
there's you go get your car serviced. There's so many opportunities that you'll see once you

797
01:17:45,640 --> 01:17:51,880
put a priority on reading to read in different environments or different places, especially if

798
01:17:51,880 --> 01:17:59,480
it's on your phone. So having it on my phone has been a huge key to me being able to read a lot.

799
01:17:59,480 --> 01:18:08,440
And so when I'm reading, when I'm really into a book, I can average 50 to 100 pages a day easily.

800
01:18:08,440 --> 01:18:16,440
If I don't have any work going on or like this little vacation or on a weekend and I really

801
01:18:16,440 --> 01:18:22,520
don't have much I'm doing, I can sometimes get 150 to 200 pages a day. And the other thing about

802
01:18:22,520 --> 01:18:28,360
that is though, that wasn't overnight. I feel like I had to, just like everything else in life,

803
01:18:28,360 --> 01:18:34,360
I had to train to that point. I started reading a little. I really got into reading hardcore

804
01:18:34,360 --> 01:18:38,040
four or five years ago. I've always been into reading, but really four or five years ago,

805
01:18:38,040 --> 01:18:44,360
I'm just like, I made it a huge part of my life. And when I fly now, if I'm flying across country,

806
01:18:44,360 --> 01:18:49,960
I won't download a single movie and there's a, I can read for an entire four or five hour flight.

807
01:18:49,960 --> 01:18:55,720
And again, it's just like, it's, it's just, I've been conditioned to this point now where I,

808
01:18:55,720 --> 01:19:02,280
where I really enjoy it and frankly need it. And it helps me in so many levels to, to, to

809
01:19:02,280 --> 01:19:09,000
to disconnect from real life and disconnect from work and family and everything else going on and

810
01:19:09,000 --> 01:19:15,160
just kind of be immersed in this other world that is, it's oftentimes very significant and

811
01:19:15,160 --> 01:19:20,360
powerful in its message. Beautiful. Well, thank you. I mean, that's something that I found myself

812
01:19:20,360 --> 01:19:24,440
working towards really, if I'm getting completely honest, because I have guests on that written

813
01:19:24,440 --> 01:19:29,400
books. So it forced me to start reading a lot more. But I mean, what you said about stepping

814
01:19:29,400 --> 01:19:33,720
outside your comfort zone. That's what I've done with this, this podcast too, is, you know, it's

815
01:19:33,720 --> 01:19:37,880
the, if you look at the absolute core, it's first responders and then outside of that military and

816
01:19:37,880 --> 01:19:44,200
then civilians, but the solutions, it might be, you know, I've had child soldiers from Sierra

817
01:19:44,200 --> 01:19:49,320
Leone, I've had, you know, ballet dancers, I mean, all kinds of people, but it's amazing how these

818
01:19:49,320 --> 01:19:54,120
lines start to intersect on these, you know, human levels. And there's so much to learn from people

819
01:19:54,120 --> 01:20:00,280
way outside of our professions. Exactly. And on that note, it's so sad seeing what's happening in

820
01:20:00,280 --> 01:20:06,760
society with some of the division and people not wanting to talk to or not having any tolerance

821
01:20:06,760 --> 01:20:13,960
for people of opposing views. And that's, it's tragic that it's going that direction. But I think

822
01:20:13,960 --> 01:20:20,680
when you have people like us who aren't afraid to explore other ideas and the outer limits of thought,

823
01:20:20,680 --> 01:20:28,440
it's completely understandable and totally not, hey, people having differing views is necessary

824
01:20:28,440 --> 01:20:32,840
for the world and society. Like there's nothing wrong with that. And they should be, it should

825
01:20:32,840 --> 01:20:39,240
be celebrated, not stifled or, or censored or shut down. Absolutely. Well, one thing I've learned

826
01:20:39,240 --> 01:20:42,600
from this as well with the guests, I mean, you know, I don't agree with a hundred percent of

827
01:20:42,600 --> 01:20:49,640
every single person that's come on. However, I've seen a tendency where a person can do 90, 95%

828
01:20:49,640 --> 01:20:54,520
right. And everyone focuses on the 5% they got triggered by. And I'm not talking about horrible

829
01:20:54,520 --> 01:20:58,440
people that are like, Hey, I love everyone except, you know, whatever. I'm just saying, you know,

830
01:20:58,440 --> 01:21:03,960
we all have, whether it's a religious kind of bias or, you know, whatever it is, but there is this

831
01:21:03,960 --> 01:21:08,600
push to disregard all the good that someone's done in the world because they said something,

832
01:21:08,600 --> 01:21:15,240
offended someone, whatever. Yeah. I mean, we kind of saw that with Fred Glassman. I'd say so.

833
01:21:15,240 --> 01:21:21,560
Yeah, absolutely. But, you know, but it is a very important point. And, you know, I've, I've, I've

834
01:21:21,560 --> 01:21:26,280
watched with my own eyes, the impact, the cross feds hound on my, on my life. I see it all over

835
01:21:26,280 --> 01:21:32,040
the world. So when that burn it all down thing happened to me, I was like, are we, are we, are

836
01:21:32,040 --> 01:21:36,600
we kind of overreacting a little bit? Cause all I've seen is, is good things, but yeah, that's just

837
01:21:36,600 --> 01:21:42,040
my lens. All right. Well, the same questions we have with the book, what about a movie and,

838
01:21:42,040 --> 01:21:50,040
or a documentary? Okay. So in the last three or four years, I really haven't watched a lot of movies

839
01:21:50,040 --> 01:21:58,680
because I read so much. So I'm not current, I would say on, on most, most of the movies of late. I

840
01:21:58,680 --> 01:22:03,800
will say I'm a big fan of the star Wars series. So anytime a star Wars movie comes out, I'll,

841
01:22:03,800 --> 01:22:10,200
I'll take it in as a huge fan of Bruce Lee. So enter the dragon is a significant movie for me.

842
01:22:10,200 --> 01:22:17,560
I'm a huge fan of the rock, obviously because of what that, how that changed the career,

843
01:22:17,560 --> 01:22:23,320
the path of my life. And let's see what other movies I think that that pretty much,

844
01:22:24,840 --> 01:22:29,560
that's a good initial list without putting too much thought to it. In terms of documentaries,

845
01:22:30,680 --> 01:22:35,240
I'm thinking of sports documentaries, obviously our CrossFit games movies. I like those.

846
01:22:35,240 --> 01:22:42,760
Um, but at this phase right now, I'm not, I'm not doing a lot of docs either just because of,

847
01:22:43,800 --> 01:22:50,600
like, so time is precious and what you do with it is very valuable or, and what you choose to do

848
01:22:50,600 --> 01:22:57,240
with it is, uh, is important. And so I just, at this stage of my life, last three, 45 years,

849
01:22:57,240 --> 01:23:05,640
I don't choose to spend much time watching movies. I'll do sports. I like watching football. Uh,

850
01:23:06,200 --> 01:23:10,840
some time I like watching basketball during the playoffs and the finals. And, uh, I'm really into

851
01:23:10,840 --> 01:23:16,280
boxing. Some MMA fights I'll watch, but, um, yeah, that pretty much sums that up.

852
01:23:17,240 --> 01:23:20,920
Beautiful. All right. Well, then the next question, is there a person you'd recommend

853
01:23:20,920 --> 01:23:25,720
to come on this podcast as a guest to speak to the first responders, military and associated

854
01:23:25,720 --> 01:23:31,320
professionals of the world? Yeah, I think someone like, so if you want to talk about like high level

855
01:23:31,320 --> 01:23:37,320
shooter who was also a first responder, he was, uh, in law enforcement, JJ Rickaza. He's one of

856
01:23:37,320 --> 01:23:44,920
the best shooters in the world, uh, now currently and great guy lives in Florida. Uh, Tony Blower,

857
01:23:44,920 --> 01:23:51,400
if you haven't had Tony Blower on the pod podcast, highly recommend him. Super intelligent. Uh,

858
01:23:51,400 --> 01:23:58,360
and he's changed the landscape of, of combatives, uh, to a degree that not many have and, and super

859
01:23:58,360 --> 01:24:04,600
thoughtful and super insightful. Who else? Uh, if you want to go really outside your box and talk

860
01:24:04,600 --> 01:24:11,240
to someone who's, who has a lot of good thoughts on some of this, uh, stuff around health and COVID,

861
01:24:11,240 --> 01:24:16,520
my good friend, Sevan Matosian, he's a, he's a Berkeley Y. He doesn't live there anymore,

862
01:24:16,520 --> 01:24:21,080
but we, it's, it's amazing that we're, he worked for CrossFit for a very long time and we're really

863
01:24:21,080 --> 01:24:28,680
good friends, but he's, uh, got powerful thoughts and opinions on things. And, um, it really

864
01:24:28,680 --> 01:24:33,640
respectful of our community, really respectful of the military and law enforcement and just an

865
01:24:33,640 --> 01:24:40,280
intelligent guy. He'd be someone that would be fun to have on. Uh, let's see who else? Um, yeah.

866
01:24:40,280 --> 01:24:45,080
When the timing, when the time is right and I don't know when that is going to be, but I hope

867
01:24:45,080 --> 01:24:50,280
it's sooner than later. You should have someone like Greg, you should have Greg Glassman on, um,

868
01:24:50,280 --> 01:24:56,200
Greg Glassman. It was funny. I did a podcast with someone and they basically referred to you like,

869
01:24:56,200 --> 01:25:00,360
oh, well, can never have him on or something like that. And I'm like, why not? If the fucking guy's

870
01:25:00,360 --> 01:25:05,480
not dead, you know, like he's not, he's not, he's not in prison. He's not dead. He's done nothing

871
01:25:05,480 --> 01:25:13,160
wrong. Like this whole note, this notion of, to me of his existence, almost being erased is so fucking

872
01:25:13,160 --> 01:25:18,920
weird. Now I don't think he's ready, but there'll be a point when he is ready to do it. And, and

873
01:25:18,920 --> 01:25:24,200
like, he, I can't wait to see him come back and, you know, talk a little, uh, cause he's, here's

874
01:25:24,200 --> 01:25:30,280
the thing about Greg. He's a fucking genius and what he created is been, is changed the world,

875
01:25:30,280 --> 01:25:39,400
uh, for the better. Crossfit. And, and it's, he's, he's a, um, he's a one of a kind individual that

876
01:25:39,400 --> 01:25:47,880
we are lucky to have had create this program and, and create the movement that he did. So, you know,

877
01:25:47,880 --> 01:25:54,920
and just like everyone else, every individual is flawed and has their, their issues. And so,

878
01:25:54,920 --> 01:25:59,160
you know, no one ever said he was perfect. No one ever said I was perfect. Neither of us are claiming

879
01:25:59,160 --> 01:26:05,320
it, but, um, if you look at what he did and the body of work, what he contributed to, so speaking,

880
01:26:05,320 --> 01:26:09,720
like when you talk about the community that you're talking to, that man has done so, and we talked

881
01:26:09,720 --> 01:26:17,320
about some of it, that man has done so much for these communities, um, on so many levels. So you

882
01:26:17,320 --> 01:26:21,000
should have him on. Yeah. No, I would love to. I've reached out to him before. We've got a mutual

883
01:26:21,000 --> 01:26:26,920
friend, TJ Cooper, one of the Crossfit OGs, who's a, you know, an incredible member of that community

884
01:26:26,920 --> 01:26:31,240
and also a retired SWAT officer. So, I mean, he, he walks the walk and is an amazing man. Yeah.

885
01:26:31,240 --> 01:26:36,680
Greg, Greg, uh, Greg loved TJ Cooper. Greg's known TJ way longer than he's known me. They were,

886
01:26:36,680 --> 01:26:41,560
they were really close. Um, and Greg really respects and loves everything about the military

887
01:26:41,560 --> 01:26:50,520
and, uh, LDO and fire. He, he has, he's been one of the most generous people to that in that,

888
01:26:50,520 --> 01:26:55,320
in these communities, if not more, I've seen him be generous to multiple other communities

889
01:26:55,320 --> 01:27:00,440
that have kind of, it's kind of been forgotten or not highlighted at all through all of this.

890
01:27:00,440 --> 01:27:05,720
His generosity was, uh, was huge. Absolutely. Well, he's more than welcome on the show. I

891
01:27:05,720 --> 01:27:10,520
can't wait to get him on. Now, just one other thing I forgot to, to, to just, uh, ask you about

892
01:27:10,520 --> 01:27:14,680
another community. And obviously it's completely entwined with, with our professions because of

893
01:27:14,680 --> 01:27:20,600
the, you know, the, the nature of the job is the adaptive community. So I, am I right in understanding

894
01:27:20,600 --> 01:27:26,120
there's an adaptive, um, portion to the games this year in the open? Yeah, we, yeah. In the open,

895
01:27:26,120 --> 01:27:30,920
we added an adaptive division. So the adaptive community has been doing CrossFit for a very long

896
01:27:30,920 --> 01:27:36,120
time and different events and competitions have been having adaptive divisions at the CrossFit

897
01:27:36,120 --> 01:27:43,240
games. We had a little adaptive, um, uh, workouts that were kind of more demos than actual

898
01:27:43,240 --> 01:27:49,320
competition. And so this year we decided to add it to the open. What it looks like at the games,

899
01:27:49,320 --> 01:27:55,960
we don't know yet, but the first step for us is huge. And it's a, it's a, it's a complex road to

900
01:27:55,960 --> 01:28:05,080
go down. And frankly, it wasn't a road we were ready to go down without that scene in CrossFit

901
01:28:05,080 --> 01:28:10,360
having developed and matured in terms of understanding what they wanted from us.

902
01:28:10,920 --> 01:28:14,600
What I mean by that is like years ago, people were saying, Hey, let's have adaptive stuff in

903
01:28:14,600 --> 01:28:18,200
the games. Okay. What's that look like? Well, I don't know. We'll just have an adaptive division.

904
01:28:18,200 --> 01:28:24,600
But the problem is there's so many different variants to what can go like what the, uh,

905
01:28:24,600 --> 01:28:33,720
physical limitation is. Right. Think of like lower leg amputee, upper leg amputee, uh, arm amputee.

906
01:28:33,720 --> 01:28:39,480
Uh, it just like, there's a ton of different injuries that individuals can have. And fundamentally

907
01:28:39,480 --> 01:28:45,480
at the CrossFit games and in CrossFit, we're measuring fitness across equal cohorts. And,

908
01:28:45,480 --> 01:28:52,440
and there we didn't have, we on our own, didn't have the division thing figured out. So this year

909
01:28:52,440 --> 01:28:58,760
we decided to ask some of the experts in the CrossFit community in that field, Alex Erkenbach,

910
01:28:58,760 --> 01:29:03,880
Kevin Ogark, and a handful of others. We asked, Hey, well, what do you guys recommend? How about

911
01:29:03,880 --> 01:29:08,360
you guys get together and you figure it out and you tell us what it's going to look like.

912
01:29:08,360 --> 01:29:12,120
And they came back and said, Hey, here's our plan. How about we have eight divisions? These

913
01:29:12,120 --> 01:29:18,520
are the divisions. We define them. They created it. And so really the massive, the masters,

914
01:29:18,520 --> 01:29:26,040
the masters, I'm sorry, adaptive division have been, it's being driven by and created by those

915
01:29:26,040 --> 01:29:31,560
in that, in that division. And that's exciting. And that's the way it needed to happen. They

916
01:29:31,560 --> 01:29:37,320
needed to take the lead on it. The thing is it took us a while to actually hand them that torch

917
01:29:37,320 --> 01:29:41,640
and let them do it. I think they would have been ready to do it a few years ago, but I don't,

918
01:29:41,640 --> 01:29:44,600
we weren't ready and we didn't, we didn't bring them in too.

919
01:29:46,120 --> 01:29:49,560
Beautiful. Well, it's very exciting. Actually one of the seated female from,

920
01:29:49,560 --> 01:29:54,840
she was the top 10 in the Wheelward games is in my gym, Charlotte Murrell-Smith. So looking forward

921
01:29:54,840 --> 01:29:58,920
to seeing how that pans out. Beautiful. All right. Well then the last question before we make sure

922
01:29:58,920 --> 01:30:02,680
everyone knows where to find you online, what do you do to decompress these days?

923
01:30:04,120 --> 01:30:11,960
Well, shoot. I spent every day I'm shooting. I shoot a pistol, rifle, not really shotgun,

924
01:30:11,960 --> 01:30:16,600
but most of the shooting I'm doing. Well, I like to say this about shooting. I do, I don't shoot

925
01:30:16,600 --> 01:30:20,840
for fun, even though I'm decompressing, I'm training while I'm shooting. I'm shooting for

926
01:30:20,840 --> 01:30:25,240
an objective. I'm shooting to train for a hunt or to train for a competition, but I really,

927
01:30:25,240 --> 01:30:30,360
it is a form of decompressing for me because I really do enjoy the process and the journey of

928
01:30:30,360 --> 01:30:36,280
working on my gear and actually shooting and then reading. So like I covered earlier,

929
01:30:36,280 --> 01:30:42,840
I like to read a lot. And then I also have to intertwine spending time with my family, which

930
01:30:43,880 --> 01:30:49,160
I need to spend, I need to get better at, but we've been together. I feel like we've been together

931
01:30:49,160 --> 01:30:53,880
nonstop through all of this because of COVID. And yet even in that, sometimes when I sit down and

932
01:30:53,880 --> 01:31:00,200
think, I'm still not there enough, interestingly, you know, because I have so much with work and

933
01:31:00,200 --> 01:31:08,440
some of the other shooting stuff I do. It seems sometimes I need to be able to just stop and not

934
01:31:08,440 --> 01:31:14,600
do things. And I need to be better at that and be there with my family and just like without

935
01:31:14,600 --> 01:31:21,160
anything happening. And I'm working on that. Excellent. All right. Well then the last question

936
01:31:21,160 --> 01:31:25,080
then, if people want to find you online, reach out, learn more, where are the best places online?

937
01:31:26,520 --> 01:31:33,720
I think my Instagram account, at the Dave Castro is my big account, mainly CrossFit related,

938
01:31:33,720 --> 01:31:41,320
95%. Sometimes I'll post other things on there, but recently, probably last year, I created a

939
01:31:41,320 --> 01:31:48,120
hunting account. It's at TDC hunts. And that's where I put all my shooting stuff, all my hunting

940
01:31:48,120 --> 01:31:53,240
stuff. Some of it will, I'll sometimes cross over and put on my main account, but I couldn't, I had

941
01:31:53,240 --> 01:31:59,960
to create another account only because I couldn't see my main account having that volume, the actual

942
01:31:59,960 --> 01:32:05,160
amount of hunting and shooting content that I wanted to put out. So I created this separate

943
01:32:05,160 --> 01:32:10,840
account just for that. And every day there's a gun or a hunt or a shooting, and I'm like,

944
01:32:10,840 --> 01:32:16,440
hunt or some competition I've done, something on there. And that's why I created a separate

945
01:32:16,440 --> 01:32:23,400
account just because it's dedicated to that where my main account crosses over mainly to CrossFit

946
01:32:23,400 --> 01:32:27,640
and things related to that. Were you hunting before you entered the SEALs or was it something

947
01:32:27,640 --> 01:32:33,480
you found more recently? More recently, actually. I mean, I obviously have been in that train,

948
01:32:33,480 --> 01:32:38,680
shot a lot as a SEAL, got out. Then when I moved back up here to Northern California two or three

949
01:32:38,680 --> 01:32:46,520
years ago, we had a big pig problem and we have deer and we have turkey. And so I kind of, I shot,

950
01:32:46,520 --> 01:32:51,560
I know how to shoot. I knew, know a lot about that world. So I'm like, well, why am I not more into

951
01:32:51,560 --> 01:32:57,080
hunting? So I went on a hunt with a friend in Texas, enjoyed it, came back and said, all right,

952
01:32:57,080 --> 01:33:03,800
I'm gonna start getting into this here. And so I've been hunting for the last couple of years

953
01:33:03,800 --> 01:33:10,920
a lot and I really enjoy it. It's a nice outlet for the shooting. So again, like when I talk about

954
01:33:10,920 --> 01:33:16,280
training for shooting, I'm training for a competition. Now also I'm training for hunting. So it all

955
01:33:16,280 --> 01:33:22,040
crosses over seamlessly. And did you do any bow hunting at all? I've seen the veteran community

956
01:33:22,040 --> 01:33:27,960
buy into that pretty well. Yeah, I've done a little this year, this last year. I have a nice bow from

957
01:33:27,960 --> 01:33:35,000
Hoyt. I'm not as into it as shooting, but I killed a turkey last year. I killed a wild pig with the

958
01:33:35,000 --> 01:33:41,320
bow. So I've done a few little hunts with it, but it's not like, here's the thing. It's just not as

959
01:33:41,320 --> 01:33:46,840
much of a passion to me as shooting. I know some people really get passionate about it, but that

960
01:33:46,840 --> 01:33:51,480
didn't hit for me. Brilliant. All right. Well, Dave, I just want to say thank you so much. I know how

961
01:33:51,480 --> 01:33:56,040
busy you are. I know the Open's about to unfold. So I'm truly honored that you carved some time for

962
01:33:56,040 --> 01:34:01,240
this conversation. But I know there's so many people listening that really have been affected

963
01:34:01,240 --> 01:34:07,400
by CrossFit. Like I said, I got into it in 2006. So 14 years, it absolutely changed my life and

964
01:34:07,400 --> 01:34:11,720
made me functional as a firefighter in my whole career. So just thank you for being so generous

965
01:34:11,720 --> 01:34:28,680
with your time and telling your story today. Thanks a lot. I appreciate you having me on.