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This episode is sponsored by Transcend, a veteran owned and operated performance optimization company that I introduced recently as a sponsor on this show.

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Well, since then, I have actually been using my products and I've had incredible success.

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There was initial blood work that was extremely detailed and based on that, they offered supplementation.

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So I began taking DHEA, BPC 157 for inflammation based on the fact that I've been a stump man and martial artist and a firefighter my whole life, lots of aches and pains,

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Dihexa to help cognition after multiple punches to the head and shift work and peptides.

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Four months later, they did a detailed blood work again and I was actually able to taper off two of the peptides because my body had responded so well to just one of them that it was optimized at that point.

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So I cannot speak highly enough of the immense range of supplementation that they offer, whether it's male health, female health, peptides to boost your own testosterone, which I would argue is needed by a lot of the fire service,

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or whether it's exogenous testosterone needed, especially after TBIs or advanced age.

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Now, as I mentioned before, the other side of this company is an altruistic arm called the Transcend Foundation,

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which is putting veterans and first responders through some of their protocols free of charge.

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Now, Transcend are also offering you the audience 10% off their protocols, and you can find that on JamesGearing.com under the products tab.

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And if you want to hear more about Transcend and their story, listen to episode 808 with the founder Ernie Colling or go to TranscendCompany.com.

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Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast.

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As always, my name is James Gearing, and this week is my absolute honor to welcome on the show, recon marine and human performance coach Miguel Zuran.

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Now, in this conversation, we discuss a host of topics from Miguel's journey into the military, training the tactical athlete, his perspective coaching firefighters,

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sleep deprivation, the impact of shift work on performance and longevity, working with the building the elite family and so much more.

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Now, before we get to this incredible conversation, as I say every week, please just take a moment, go to whichever app you listen to this on,

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subscribe to the show, leave feedback and leave a rating.

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Every single five star rating truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making it easier for others to find.

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And this is a free library of almost 1000 episodes now.

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So all I ask in return is that you help share these incredible men and women stories so I can get them to every single person on planet Earth who needs to hear them.

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So with that being said, I introduce to you Miguel Zuran.

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Enjoy.

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Well, Miguel, I want to start by saying firstly, this is a long, long time coming.

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You and I have been talking for years now and for very valid reasons, there wasn't the opportunity to do this podcast.

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But here we are now and I'm sure there's a lot of people that know you that are looking forward to hearing your voice.

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So I want to welcome you on to the Behind the Shield podcast today.

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Thanks, James. It's an honor and a pleasure and a privilege.

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And I don't know that there's that many people who know who I am.

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So I think there are more than you realize.

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All right. Well, then let's start at the very beginning.

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Where on planet Earth are we finding you right now?

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I am in the great Pacific Northwest and Issaquah, Washington.

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Beautiful. Well, I know that's not where you were born.

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So let's talk about the origin story then.

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Tell me where you were born and tell me a little bit about your family dynamic, what your parents did, how many siblings?

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Yeah, so I was born in Dover, New Jersey.

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I don't know what my father did. And, you know, it's not a great happy story, but it's the only one I got.

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Parents divorced at an early age. I think my dad did some computer stuff.

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I remember the mention of Hearts Mountain, but I really couldn't tell you what he did.

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My mom did kind of media labor tasks.

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She did a lot of secretarial work or cashier stuff.

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Yeah, no siblings, only child. She probably explains a lot.

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But yeah, man, early childhood, you know, not not great.

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One thing that's become very, very apparent is, I mean, firstly, there's the what's called the ACEs score,

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adverse childhood experiences score.

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And a lot of us in uniform happen to have quite a high score.

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And we look back and, you know, you've got whether it's one parent left, both parents left, there was addiction.

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There was other sorts of trauma.

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And I think that's a good thing in some respects, because it sends us into a life of service.

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And a lot of us don't want other people to feel some of that vulnerability that we felt.

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More often than not, though, the people that find themselves go in the right direction, not the wrong.

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Because if you look at prisoners, they also have a high ACEs score.

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So there's a lot of parallels there.

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And you hear people say, I'm either going to go in the military or I'll end up dead.

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You know, you hear that a lot.

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So when you look back now, during your kind of school age, were there male mentors that showed up for you that maybe don't for some people aren't so lucky?

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Brother, not a one. Not a one.

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I cannot look back and find a male figure or father figure other than, you know, for a while, Lawrence Taylor was my hero.

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And then I found out he was fueled by cocaine, which was kind of a huge letdown.

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But, yeah, dude, no, no, no real figures, man.

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I mean, I've said for good, bad or indifferent, there's really two influences on the man I am today.

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And one of those is the United States Marine Corps and the other one is my wife.

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Beautiful. Well, obviously, you've not only joined the Marines, you ended up in an elite organization within the Marines.

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When you were in the high school and younger ages, what were the sports and exercise that you were doing back then?

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Yeah, so football, wrestling, soccer and bouncing.

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Bouncing. Yeah, I was a bouncer at a nightclub, started working at the age of 15.

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And then let me tell you, that was ruinous to my high school career because.

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One, it's interesting to be in some of the same social circles as your high school teachers.

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But two, it makes getting up early in the morning to get to class a real pain in the ass.

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So my I was a super junior means you get to do the 11th grade twice.

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I had to be average, but I had like 50 something absences and they're like, we have to deny you credit.

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So I did I did 11th grade dash two.

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Firstly, bouncing at 15 is interesting. We'll get to that.

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But also the fact that you coupled that into the question when I asked about sports and exercise.

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So expand, expand on that whole thing.

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Yeah, I started playing football at an early age.

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You know, whether it was some of the pent up aggression or just the ability to get out and do something that I thought was fun.

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I really enjoyed it, was never very good at it, but had a blast doing it over the years.

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Wrestling, I did not enjoy wrestling my first two or three seasons.

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I think in middle school, I just got tossed around because I was a I was a chubbier kid.

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You know, think about the kid from Goonies doing the truffle shuffle.

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And most of the kids that I wrestled were bigger than me.

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So it was just like, go out there, you know, I'm like chest level.

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They're looking down to me. Whistle goes off.

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And then, you know, just cartwheeling around the ring until they decide to pin me, which was not fun.

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But I got better and had a OK high school career.

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Football, wrestling, soccer was more of a just something to pass the time.

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But the bouncing was pretty, pretty physical for a 15 year old.

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We had some summer things. I can't remember what it's called, but like teen night or something,

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which was another interesting dynamic because all of the kids that I went to school with would show up at the club

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and then was one of the authority figures. And man, there was always a fight.

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Like every night there were a couple of fights.

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So it kind of turned into, you know, how do we stay prepared for this?

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And that kind of followed through the entirety of my high school career.

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Even a year outside of high school, I was still bouncing.

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And then kind of boxing in and out of those.

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I had a couple of years on junior P.A.L. and then police athletic league in South Carolina.

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And then another year kind of as I ended my high school career and figured out what I was going to do with my life.

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The yourself and the people that you work with, you know, when you think of bounces,

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like what I think of bounces, a lot of them were the giant bodybuilders when I was growing up.

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And, you know, so I don't know what their martial arts background was,

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but they were big enough to just basically pick you up and toss you.

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When you look back at the group that you were around and train with,

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what were the physical attributes that allowed you to be successful in bouncing,

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but also the mental side, the identifying before it happens or some of the some of the lesser known elements of bouncing that we maybe don't think about?

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Yeah. So I would say like the start difference is the best work,

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best nightclub I worked at and the worst nightclub I worked at.

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And it's a matter of trust and support. Right.

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The best nightclub that I worked out was a higher end establishment with a dress code,

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age restrictions on certain nights, you know, and then wristbands for college night,

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which is an entirely different subject, probably type of podcast genre, to be honest.

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But the folks that I worked with, they're not a lot of martial arts backgrounds.

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And, man, as a matter of fact, the one night that I actually got saw a guy show form,

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whatever kung fu style that he did, like it was kind of a standoff scenario.

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It was like three or four bouncers on one side and then three or four angry club patrons on the other side.

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And this cat, he was a he was a oh, man, what's the word when you stalk it?

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I can't remember, but it'll come to me later on. I'll just yell it out.

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Anyway, he ran beers for the bar guys, for the bartenders.

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But he came from around the bar and he did his little kung fu thing and the guy across and just knocked him out.

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And like, OK, that. Yep. Here we go.

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But like I said, man, it was a trust and support. Right.

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So all the folks in this great club, we're on radios, we'd communicate, you know,

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we'd call out where we were, what we saw and guys would say, hey, I'm inbound.

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I'll be there in a few or I'm handling something.

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And it was never a go approach a scenario by yourself

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because it quite honestly and very frequently turned into a.

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I need more than one person to help this.

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And, you know, sometimes people went out quietly and sometimes they wanted to take as many people out with them.

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So. Rare were the actual fistfights, you know, this this guy, this kung fu dude,

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they got punched in the mouth and laid out like this was a rare occasion, but.

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This club was, you know, hey, two, three, four bouncers show up like, come on,

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you don't want to start a scene, we'll carry you out. And sometimes we threw people out.

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The worst club I worked out was like, haha, you go handle that by yourself

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and we'll stand here and watch and see how you do type of thing.

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And that was a more of a, you know, fight for your life scenario type of thing where

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not a lot of support, not a lot of trust.

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There was no dudes there that I would call for backup to begin with.

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I didn't stay at that club very long.

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It's an interesting perspective, because obviously then you go into the Marines and then recon.

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When you look at the world of law enforcement and I, this is my complete,

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you know, white belt perspective to me, the fact that we have one person in a cruiser

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that responds to God knows what seems like setting up a lot of our officers for failure

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right off the bat now, yes, other people might come up.

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But to me, if you've got two people to a car and those people are also held at a high

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physical standard and then what will be even more amazing, some sort of grappling background as well.

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More often than not, that seems to act as a deterrent.

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So those kind of officers go hands on a lot less.

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What is your perspective having a background in bouncing and then obviously in the military

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side on the pros and cons that you've seen different departments as far as policing?

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I think this is a tough question because a lot of it comes down to escalation of force, right?

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And, you know, there's not enough people behind badges as it is right now.

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So how do we mitigate some of that?

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And I think it comes down to how the public views law enforcement and then how the legal

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system views law enforcement, because I think those are wildly separate views.

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And then the type of support a law enforcement officer would have.

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So as dangerous as that job is, you send someone out there with, you know,

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differing levels of physical fitness and, you know, some agencies and institutions are all about it.

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Some are not, sadly.

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So you've got folks that show up in different states of physical fitness.

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And a lot of us know that how trained or untrained you are will affect how well you respond to stress

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just from a physiological standpoint, not from a psychological standpoint.

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So a detrained individual with no hands on background, never wrestled, never did martial arts,

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kind of a couch potato, just decided they want to serve their community, which is honorable in and of itself.

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But without this training, like you said, we're kind of setting them up for failure.

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Now there's a hostile engagement.

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And what do I have to fall back on?

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Well, no one taught me how to throw hands.

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I've never been in a physical altercation and I'm terrified.

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So maybe I've got a taser, but I certainly have a side arm.

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You know, is this a shoot scenario or a no-shoot scenario?

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And, you know, that in itself is stressful enough.

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Never mind the body cam.

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Never mind the instant TikTok cancellation of your life and your career because people are filming you.

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Never mind the litigation that follows because you made a right decision or the wrong decision or the right decision at the wrong time.

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Like all of these things kind of factor into this last minute, like panic scenario.

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Well, I fear for my life, so maybe I'll pull out my side arm.

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Or I don't pull out my side arm and then I get beat up and they take my car and my gun and they have a joyride.

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Absolutely. That's an interesting perspective because of your background.

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Speaking of the Marines, when you were in high school age, were you dreaming of entering the military or was there something else on your mind?

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There wasn't a whole lot on my mind, to be honest.

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For a long, long time, I wanted to play in the NFL because I had played football as a child.

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But then I kind of stopped growing and everyone else continued to grow.

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So that kind of dashed my dreams.

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And then, you know, fell in with some less than savory characters, became a less than savory character myself for a few years.

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The type of teenager you would label as a complete piece of shit.

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Did a lot of things, you know, we can't really call it like teenage stupidity, but just outright, willful, ignorant type stuff.

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Didn't really have direction in life.

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You know, drinking some drugs and was just kind of floating my way through bouncing and high school and figuring out which one was more important.

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But there was never really a burning desire to join the military or really do anything.

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I wanted to get a boxing career going.

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But that, I mean, I didn't have the talent, I'll be honest with you.

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The guy I was working with, my trainer, he was like, hey, he kept telling me like I need six more months, I need six more months before we can go pro.

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And it's like, maybe, maybe I don't have it.

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And he's just trying to string me along to make me feel better about myself.

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But the choice to join the military actually did not arise until my daughter was born.

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So that kind of came about as like I'm bouncing, making peanuts.

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You know, my trainers, hey, I need six more months before you can go pro.

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Wasn't really thinking that that was going to be a very lucrative profession to begin with.

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And I was like, man, I need a steady paycheck.

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Well, where can I go work and do something cool?

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It's like, all right, I will join the military because that's a steady paycheck.

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Army? No. Navy? No. I hate boats. Air Force? Nope. Scared of heights. Marines?

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They sound tough. Let's do that.

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And that was it, man. I called the recruiter, say, hey, I want to be a Marine.

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And the guy like put down the phone, you know, back before there were cell phones,

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you can hear him put it down to the desk, hop around and like, yes, it's the easiest one I've ever got.

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A couple of months later, man, I was, you know, bald head in Parris Island getting yelled at.

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Now, you mentioned your daughter. So that was that with a previous marriage or was that with a girlfriend?

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On again, off again, girlfriend, kind of a tumultuous relationship,

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likely brought about by the the bouncing lifestyle that I lived.

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But, yeah, man, I got behind in child support and I was like, oh, people go to jail for this.

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So that was the steady paycheck desire to avoid jail, which, you know, the military is its own type of jail.

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Well, you mentioned about not having a mentor up to this point, you know, and obviously not having a father that was present.

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Talk to me about just your your on ramp experience boot camp and the basic Marine training.

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Yeah, culture shock. I don't unless you're in a military family, I don't I mean, maybe now, you know, 24 years distant,

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there's a lot more access and documentaries, but, you know, the recruiter is going to tell you whatever the recruiter wants to tell you.

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And, you know, not trying to bag on recruiters across the military, but generally they're scum.

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They're just trying to get you into the military. They really don't care about you.

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And I know they're they're decent humans, right? They're service minded humans.

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They wear a uniform. Congratulations. But but to a recruiter, man, they just they lie to get you in the door.

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And then you are that institution's problem.

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So, you know, my recruiter was like, hey, you know, just just do what you're told immediately.

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And that's that's it. Right. Because that was that was the running joke they had.

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Just do what you're told. Shut up to boot camp.

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Got yelled at a lot. And it was just like I think we had 81 or 82 other guys in my platoon at boot camp.

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And we all just kind of looked at each other like what what is happening right now.

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And, you know, that was a that was an interesting experience, man.

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I know boot camps like these days, I'm pretty sure you can't yell or curse or do all the horrible things the same way.

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You know, each generation says, oh, it was so much harder in my time.

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But yeah, dude, I don't.

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I never really look back. I think my drill instructors,

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you know, like everyone says, your drill instructors had had an influence on them because they're the they're the first gate, right.

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They get you from nasty, stinky, slimy civilian to, you know, Marine soldier, airman, sailor.

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Guardian is I don't even know if they go to boot camp, maybe just hand out the uniforms and the wristwatches.

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Sorry, Space Force, I'm still coming to terms with your existence.

237
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But, you know, there's definitely some molding and there's not really a lot of time for mentorship.

238
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Right. Like these these men are not father figures unless you had a really, really bad upbringing.

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But they are definitely authority figures, you know, and depending on how they act towards you and how they act with you,

240
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there's a chance for them to gain a lot of respect and trust in your eyes.

241
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You know, and even the ones that were like super hard asses that just treated you like shit.

242
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In the end, you look back and you're like, you know, whether it's Stockholm syndrome and you're trying to justify it or it is actually justifiable in the way they acted like, hey,

243
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there was a means there was an end to the means like they were definitely trying to mold me into A, B or C so that, you know,

244
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this type of person would be in their beloved Marine Corps.

245
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What about timing? Were you just before or just after 9-11 when you enlisted?

246
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Oh, that was July 2000. So I was over a year distant.

247
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This was the peacetime Marine Corps that I enlisted into.

248
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So that's always really interesting. What was the whole kind of vibe pre 9-11?

249
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Talk to me about 9-11 through your eyes and let's go to how it shifted after that.

250
00:22:14,120 --> 00:22:23,280
Yeah, pre 9-11 difficult for me to talk about intelligently because I spent that whole year in schools.

251
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Right. So boot camp, Marine combat training and then all my schooling for my primary MOS.

252
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So I came into the Marine Corps open contract, which is another recruiter trick to get you to needs Marine Corps because I wanted to be infantry.

253
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And they're like, oh, it's easy. Just get the boot camp and tell them you want to be infantry and they'll change your MOS.

254
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Ha ha. I call bullshit because that is not true.

255
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I've heard that by so many people. They told me just to say I want to be a SEAL when I get there.

256
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Yeah. No, wrong. Ha ha. Fooled you.

257
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Got the boot camp, told them I wanted to be infantry and they laughed and they're like, oh, your your general technical scores.

258
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These are like the military's version of how smart you are.

259
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They're like, nope, your scores were such and such that you're going to be behind the desk for the rest of your career.

260
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Admin, supply and operations clerk or something.

261
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And I was like, oh, that's great. Let me see that rifle.

262
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I'm going to suck started the way that kid from Full Metal Jacket did.

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So got to Marine combat training and they're like, hey, who hates their MOS?

264
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And like every hand went up.

265
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They're like, OK, who wants to jump out of planes?

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And every hand went down.

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And I did like this time slows, you know, you max pain bullet time and you get all this time in a very small space.

268
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I was like, I am terrified of heights. Yes, but I'm also terrified of computers.

269
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Which one's easier to get away from?

270
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All right, well, if you want to jump out of planes, you're only in height for a little while.

271
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Otherwise, computers all the time.

272
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So I put my hand back up and two other ass clowns that I was with in boot camp were in the same class.

273
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And they were like, oh, no, no, if he's going, I'm going.

274
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So I ran the Army PRT. I did so many push ups.

275
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I thought my arms were going to fall off.

276
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And the guy's like, congratulations, you win.

277
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So I got sent to rigor school or air delivery specialist.

278
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Was in. Not Fort Benning, Fort Lee was in Fort Lee for a while doing the rigor school thing,

279
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came out of that and got orders to First Force Reconnaissance Company as a parachute rigger.

280
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And they had a pretty high operational tempo when I got there, normally around five flatoons,

281
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sending guys out on Marine Expeditionary Units, which were six month deployments at the time.

282
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And we're still trying to figure out what really all of that meant when I got there.

283
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So I got there in May, spent a couple of months and then I was on the rifle range.

284
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Me and this other rigger, we're in the pits.

285
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So there's two portions of the rifle range.

286
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There's the portion where they're on the outline shooting.

287
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And then there's the people behind the targets, underneath the targets behind this berm,

288
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pulling them down, marking your shot groups and putting them back up.

289
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We call that the pits in the Marine Corps.

290
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So we were down there and day after my birthday, by the way, on the range,

291
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which was no fun to begin with.

292
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But some guy who's got like a radio back there is like, hey, something just happened in New York,

293
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like a plane crashed into a tower or something.

294
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And we're like, oh, man, that sucks.

295
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And then we just went back to pulling pits and then shooting on the range.

296
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And we got back to the Parallel Off that night and it was chaos, dude, like the whole company,

297
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like every car was in every parking space, dudes were everywhere.

298
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And I walked in and my boss was like, hey, man, pack your shit, we're going to war.

299
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I'm like, what?

300
00:25:53,120 --> 00:25:54,840
Well, like what is happening right now?

301
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And the planes crashing in the towers on the TV and guys are packing up.

302
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:04,120
And we're talking about sending stuff to guys who are already on a Mew,

303
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who are in the Middle East right now, are going to be in the Middle East.

304
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And it was like, OK, so what is actually happening?

305
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Like, are we invading somewhere right now?

306
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And it's like, yeah, we've got guys going to Afghanistan right now.

307
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I'm like, OK, so we're going to Afghanistan.

308
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And that was kind of the thing that we all thought for a while, like, hey, we're going

309
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to Afghanistan and then fast forward like a year and a half, I'm on deployment and we're

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going into Iraq.

311
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And I'm like, we've had guys in Afghanistan since like two days after 9-11.

312
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Like, what are we actually doing over here?

313
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So it was weird, man, to be honest.

314
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Thinking back, it was like we're going to war against Iraq.

315
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:56,360
I'm not sure Iraq had anything to do with 9-11, but you do what you're told and you

316
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follow orders.

317
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So there we were.

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I remember thinking that because I was in Japan when 9-11 happened and obviously

319
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following from there on in.

320
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And I remember thinking the same thing.

321
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:15,440
Going into Iraq, I mean, it was the only thing anyone can say other than it was deliberately

322
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:17,600
on the coattails of 9-11.

323
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But you go, it's like invading Canada for Mexico attacking us.

324
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Like, it's a completely different country.

325
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:28,840
And you hear now, I've had a lot of people from Afghanistan on the show and they were

326
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like, yeah, we were just building up some support.

327
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And then everyone got pulled, I think, for the second kind of wave in Iraq.

328
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,520
So I think it's really interesting hearing because who am I?

329
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:43,000
I'm an English-American firefighter that did nothing in the military.

330
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:48,520
But from a layman's point of view, the initial reason why we went didn't make sense,

331
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:50,240
other than, yes, he's a horrible human.

332
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:54,840
And there's lots of them around the world that hopefully we'll be able to bring down.

333
00:27:54,840 --> 00:28:00,360
But the fact that that was pinned to the 9-11 kind of retribution seemed just extremely

334
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irresponsible.

335
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And then as you go forward for two decades and you start hearing that maybe the WMDs

336
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weren't there and then you see the Afghan withdrawal, it really, we need to kind of

337
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,120
reflect on all of that and say, what were we told?

338
00:28:16,120 --> 00:28:17,920
Where were we sent?

339
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,120
What was the mission complete?

340
00:28:20,120 --> 00:28:21,720
How do we withdraw?

341
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:22,840
Do we make things worse?

342
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:24,680
And again, I'm a civilian.

343
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:25,920
I'm just asking these questions.

344
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:31,320
But I can only imagine through a Marine, an Airman, a soldier's eyes, especially as you

345
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:36,960
progress through your career, there's got to be that retroactive look and be like, I

346
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:38,400
get the rah, rah, rah.

347
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:39,160
Don't ask questions.

348
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Just go in because it's the same as a young firefighter.

349
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They tell me to go into the building.

350
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:46,120
When I'm a pro-B, I don't have the capacity to think anything other.

351
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:50,840
15 years in, now you start to go, wait a second, this building is a commercial vacant

352
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building.

353
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We might get killed for absolutely nothing if we go in.

354
00:28:54,400 --> 00:29:01,000
So as you progress through, what was your perspective of that, those early years versus

355
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,800
the 20 that we ultimately spent in the Middle East?

356
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,160
Or you did, not we.

357
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,760
Yeah, you know, man, it's easy to armchair quarterback.

358
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:14,280
And a lot of the reason it's easy to do that is because there's always more information

359
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:15,640
after the fact.

360
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:16,160
Right?

361
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:20,320
There's the three-meter view that you have on the ground.

362
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:24,480
There's the 100-meter view that someone in the building can have looking out.

363
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:31,120
And then there's the 30,000-foot view that we don't always have boots on the ground.

364
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:39,880
And the geopolitical situations are always fluid and hard for the individual units to

365
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:44,080
have the overall commander's end state.

366
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:47,520
Normally, you get that command structure up.

367
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:52,200
So if you're at the company, the battalion and the MEF, Marine Expeditionary Force,

368
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,360
so you'll get their desired end state.

369
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:58,800
But what's like CENTCOM or EURCOM or AFRICOM?

370
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:02,800
This is the big continental commander.

371
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,760
What is their overall desired end state?

372
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:11,040
And it's difficult for someone who's at the rank of E5 and below to be able to connect

373
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:12,040
all those dots.

374
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,200
Say, hey, man, I just do what I told.

375
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:18,520
So now being able to look back and say, well, we could or we should or we would have, but

376
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,240
we didn't, I get it.

377
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,760
But there's a lot of things we didn't know at the time.

378
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:30,280
And I think, to be honest, we were just working with the information that we had at hand.

379
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:34,880
And what we learned over the years, it's like when you're a kid, man, there's some things

380
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:36,720
that you just hold to be fundamentally true.

381
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,800
And as you get older, you realize that's not really true.

382
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:43,200
Or like Obi-Wan Kenobi says, it's only true from a certain point of view.

383
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:51,600
So it's like, OK, I think if we look at should we have gone into Iraq, yeah, there were people

384
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:53,680
who needed help there.

385
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:55,960
And independent, if you say, well, they could have did it themselves.

386
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:57,800
They didn't know how.

387
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:02,600
And if America was trying to be the big brother that we're trying to be, or the world's 911

388
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:08,960
force, like, OK, there were definitely some good results that came out of that.

389
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:12,700
Now there are a lot of lives lost unnecessarily on both sides, 100%.

390
00:31:12,700 --> 00:31:15,520
But that's the nature of combat.

391
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:21,080
And as the victors, we decide to rewrite history, sham on us.

392
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:25,800
But there's a lot of lessons, good, bad, and indifferent, that came out of those 20 years

393
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,420
of conflict in two different places.

394
00:31:29,420 --> 00:31:35,760
And I think we owe it to the next generation to not let those fall to the wayside and just

395
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,120
to be cognizant of the mistakes that we made.

396
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:44,720
We did what we felt was the right thing to do at that given moment.

397
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:48,360
A good plan now is better than a great plan tomorrow type of scenario.

398
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:49,360
Absolutely.

399
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:54,400
I've heard that they did the best of what they had stated a lot of times when people

400
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:59,920
are talking about their upbringing and their parents, especially if it was ultimately somewhat

401
00:31:59,920 --> 00:32:00,920
detrimental.

402
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:04,880
But at that time, both parents were 18.

403
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:06,080
They were barely out of high school.

404
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:10,200
They were whatever it was.

405
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:15,440
It's a way of moving forward because you're accepting what happened for the way it was.

406
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:19,360
But I think just like COVID, if you then at the end of it just sweep everything under

407
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:23,760
the carpet and refuse to talk about it, then history is doomed to repeat itself.

408
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:28,600
So all our men and women went over there and served all these allied nations that came

409
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:29,740
together.

410
00:32:29,740 --> 00:32:33,160
We owe it to them, whether they came home in one piece, whether they didn't come home

411
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:37,760
at all or somewhere in between, we owe it to them to take those lessons just like you

412
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:41,640
said and formulate something even better.

413
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:43,640
God forbid it happens again.

414
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:47,520
Yeah, agreed.

415
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:52,680
I'm just going to do a tangent for a second because you talked about 911 for the world.

416
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:57,080
When you actually dig into the US, we are a very, very altruistic country.

417
00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:59,760
We give a huge amount when it comes to the financial donations.

418
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:03,400
Obviously, our service members have been out doing all kinds of things and continue to

419
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:05,900
do around the world.

420
00:33:05,900 --> 00:33:10,140
One of the things though I think that seems to work against that at the moment is we have

421
00:33:10,140 --> 00:33:12,540
so many issues in our own country.

422
00:33:12,540 --> 00:33:17,200
Even the ability to recruit at the moment when 70% of the nation is obese or overweight

423
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,160
is certainly working against us.

424
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:25,360
To me, it seems like maybe the lens needs to be back on our own country for a bit and

425
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:29,440
our addiction crisis and our school safety and some of these things that are horrendous

426
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:34,820
at the moment so that we then can be an even more effective power and a poster child for

427
00:33:34,820 --> 00:33:36,740
democracy as well.

428
00:33:36,740 --> 00:33:43,820
What is your perspective of us always going overseas and arguably having a lot of crises

429
00:33:43,820 --> 00:33:46,760
here in the US that need to be taken care of?

430
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:51,980
Yeah, a couple of things you don't talk about in public, religion and politics.

431
00:33:51,980 --> 00:33:53,160
I don't think that's politics.

432
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:56,440
I think that's the welfare of our nation.

433
00:33:56,440 --> 00:34:04,400
I agree but I feel like there's some political undermining or undertow to that just because

434
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:11,440
I think there is this global perception of who and what America is.

435
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:12,820
Perception is reality.

436
00:34:12,820 --> 00:34:20,200
If we continue to project this global presence of strength and solidarity, independent of

437
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:27,000
what mainstream media is showing about us internally, then everyone else will say, okay,

438
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:28,120
they're doing fine.

439
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:33,640
Maybe we still trust them, we still support them, we're not going to knock them off the

440
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:39,320
pedestal as the number one strength on the planet.

441
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:46,480
I feel like there's some political aspects to the answer to that question.

442
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:49,200
My point of view, Miguel Zarran talking.

443
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:55,840
Again, you know what snafu and foobar mean?

444
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,680
Yeah, okay.

445
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:00,160
They're not just cool words that we say.

446
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:05,040
It's a situation normal, all fucked up, which means we've gotten from something that used

447
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:07,960
to be normal to now we're in some trouble.

448
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:11,080
Then foobar, fucked up beyond all repair.

449
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:17,760
I think as a country, man, we're kind of hovering dangerously in between those two just because

450
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:23,480
it's come down to independent of physicality.

451
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:25,760
The army's trying to solve the physical portion of it.

452
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:29,760
They've got a boot camp for boot camp, which I heard is doing okay.

453
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:30,760
You know what?

454
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:31,760
I laughed.

455
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:33,040
I giggled my motherfucking ass off.

456
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:36,880
When I first heard there was a boot camp for boot camp, but then if you take a step back

457
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:42,620
and say, yeah, more than three quarters of the United States right now does not qualify

458
00:35:42,620 --> 00:35:44,520
for military service, what is it?

459
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:46,160
Age 18 to 44.

460
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:49,000
Does not even qualify.

461
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:54,360
Let's just say for mathematical sake, that's 25% of the population that does qualify.

462
00:35:54,360 --> 00:36:02,560
Out of that 25% in that age category, how many of those men and women are service minded?

463
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:08,600
Now we've got an even smaller population and then even those who qualifies for military

464
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:12,280
service and then who doesn't qualify for military service.

465
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:14,020
They're still service minded.

466
00:36:14,020 --> 00:36:19,080
They may or may not be the folks in uniform that show up to your house when you call 911.

467
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:27,240
So internally, when we look at what we've been doing as a community, promoting obesity

468
00:36:27,240 --> 00:36:35,440
and fat is beautiful and don't exercise, take these drugs to stop being fat and diets are

469
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:36,440
the enemy.

470
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:42,640
Man, if there was a more self-destructive culture on the planet in history, I'd love

471
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:49,280
to know about it because I feel like America is doing its best to just tear itself apart.

472
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:54,440
I had a thought the other day, my wife is half Filipina and the Philippines has some

473
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:59,000
really, really poor, poor areas and you see sometimes your videos of these kids that literally

474
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:04,280
live on a giant rubbish tip on a mound.

475
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,320
Imagine being incredibly poor.

476
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:12,760
Imagine fighting for every meal and hearing that Americans kill themselves by eating too

477
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:13,760
much.

478
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:15,680
Again, I'm not saying this judgmentally.

479
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:20,160
This is just simply a fact at the moment and then we have medicine to try and offset that.

480
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:24,800
But they've got so much food that they die by food.

481
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:28,140
That must be, I'm sure there's not a lot of people talking about it, but if you think

482
00:37:28,140 --> 00:37:34,080
about the spectrum between the starving children and our eight year olds that are already obese

483
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:41,280
with early onset freaking diabetes, it's insane because arguably both are preventable, but

484
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:43,240
ours is uber preventable.

485
00:37:43,240 --> 00:37:48,200
We just create an environment where shitty food isn't on every corner and exercise becomes

486
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:49,200
normal again.

487
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:50,200
It's in PE programs.

488
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:52,400
We pedestrianize more areas.

489
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:58,240
This is what's so devastating to me is it's an easy fix, but the problem is there are

490
00:37:58,240 --> 00:38:03,000
so many corporations that make money from sickness in this country and they are lining

491
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:07,160
the pockets of the people that call themselves leaders.

492
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:12,280
To me, we can turn the ship around and the pandemic was such a great captive audience

493
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:13,800
where we should have done it.

494
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:18,080
No better time than, hey, this disease is killing people who are fat and sick.

495
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:20,180
Let's stop making people fat and sick.

496
00:38:20,180 --> 00:38:23,400
But instead, like I mentioned before, it was swept under the rug.

497
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:25,720
Just like you said, big is beautiful, ozempic.

498
00:38:25,720 --> 00:38:27,560
Let's just not talk about it.

499
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:29,440
Yeah, man.

500
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:31,600
Quick story about Philippines.

501
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:39,600
In 2009, I got a chance to work with the Filipino force recall Marines.

502
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:44,600
And buddy, when I tell you like harder than woodpecker lips, these guys were scary hard.

503
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:50,080
So after every range evolution in the United States Marine Corps, we unleashed the range

504
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:51,080
chickens.

505
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:55,360
That's just us bending down and picking up brass, right, which we've learned over the

506
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:59,760
years is really bad for you to have all that stuff in your blood and in your camis and

507
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:04,800
in your hat because or your cover in your cover because that's where it goes.

508
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:08,840
Because you can only hold so many brass casings in your hand at once.

509
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:12,440
But we pick them up because we don't leave that stuff lying around.

510
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:19,080
The film ours, Filipino Marines, they pick them up and they has a jacket or reshell.

511
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:20,080
I don't know.

512
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:23,800
But they take those brass casings and they make new bullets.

513
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:31,280
And like a max loadout for them is like two magazines per per man, right, where, you know,

514
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:36,240
I've I've gone as heavy as 13 mags or as light as seven mags and one of the gun.

515
00:39:36,240 --> 00:39:41,600
And these guys, you know, maybe one of them has night vision.

516
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:45,440
Maybe one of them has like a magazine pouch or like some cereal boxes that he taped together

517
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:47,180
to hold his magazines.

518
00:39:47,180 --> 00:39:53,440
But these gentlemen will go into the woods and go hunt Islamic extremists in the south.

519
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:55,880
They will engage in the jungle.

520
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:59,520
And when they're done with their 30 or 60 rounds, they'll draw swords and daggers and

521
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:01,360
go in hand to hand combat.

522
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:03,240
These guys are tougher than woodpecker lips.

523
00:40:03,240 --> 00:40:08,520
And they make do with so little that it makes the United States Marine Corps, who is by

524
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:16,200
far the poorest service component in the D.O.D. inventory, makes them look wasteful.

525
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:17,200
Right.

526
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:22,040
So big head nod to the force recon Filipino Marines.

527
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:26,000
But if we're talking about America, man, holy shit.

528
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:35,840
A couple of years ago, I had to do an assignment on beef and how beef gets processed.

529
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:44,200
And it just led me down some layers of what like the food industry is actually doing on

530
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:46,440
a daily basis.

531
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:54,600
And I'm sure the numbers have changed since then, this is probably 20, a decade ago.

532
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:56,000
I'm getting old.

533
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:57,880
So probably 2013, 2014.

534
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:04,480
But at some point when I was doing this research, I learned that the United States, right, as

535
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:12,960
a country produces over 4000 calories in processed food per individual in the United States.

536
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:14,600
And that's just processed food, man.

537
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:22,320
Like that's a lot of calories, like, you know, athletes, tactical athletes, you know, industrial

538
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:27,320
athletes, these folks are using a lot of calories in a day, but your average person does not

539
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,880
need 4000 calories in processed food.

540
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:36,520
And man, like big sugar, the folks in Florida with all the sugar cane, there's a lot of

541
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:37,960
support there.

542
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:45,600
A lot of that money gets funneled back into politics and politicians and then who has

543
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:47,160
what district in control.

544
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:55,520
It's like, man, you know, the further ahead we get in nutritional science, and the more

545
00:41:55,520 --> 00:42:00,720
we learn that, you know, different types of diets work for different types of people,

546
00:42:00,720 --> 00:42:05,060
like there's no one diet to rule them all, right?

547
00:42:05,060 --> 00:42:10,160
What we can agree on is that most of the things that come in packages that have a very high

548
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:13,960
shelf life should be avoided at all costs.

549
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:18,520
And who is most of that stuff aimed at?

550
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:20,200
Children.

551
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:24,460
And who is by far the most annoying population on the planet?

552
00:42:24,460 --> 00:42:25,640
Come on, parents.

553
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:29,040
I know you don't want to admit it, but I'll be the first one to admit it here.

554
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:32,160
Children, they will annoy you to get what they want.

555
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:34,300
And they will continue to do it until they get what they want.

556
00:42:34,300 --> 00:42:37,420
And then once they get it, they'll continue to do it to keep getting it.

557
00:42:37,420 --> 00:42:41,280
So I feel like it's a goddamn travesty, man.

558
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:44,440
When you look around and you see fat kids at school.

559
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:48,400
And I get it, dude, like I was the token fat kid when I was growing up, right?

560
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:52,480
And you know, everyone can make all the jokes they want.

561
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:58,920
But I think there's a lot of things now where we can't really put the blame on the children,

562
00:42:58,920 --> 00:42:59,920
right?

563
00:42:59,920 --> 00:43:04,800
I mean, they don't have the liquid assets to go out and buy their own food.

564
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:08,800
Yeah, maybe they can make their own decision and just go ragdoll and lay on the couch when

565
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:12,320
you try to pick them up and get them away from the screen or the TV or whatever.

566
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:20,760
But if you're providing the food for the family and your children are fat, man, shame on you.

567
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:23,400
Yeah, it's a hard truth.

568
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:25,640
And I think this is the other, you know, there's two sides.

569
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:30,960
When I talk about first responder, you know, wellness in general, I'm always very, very

570
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:34,360
careful and deliberate to talk about the environment as well.

571
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:37,840
And as we'll get to the way that the fire service has worked at the moment, especially

572
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:45,720
now with the recruitment crisis, this sleep deprivation, these crazy shifts are creating

573
00:43:45,720 --> 00:43:50,640
immense illness in our first responders and they're contributing to obesity and high blood

574
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:53,880
pressure and low testosterone and all the things.

575
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:55,160
And it's the same with our schools.

576
00:43:55,160 --> 00:44:01,120
You know, when Cisco comes and brings that big old shiny trailer of food, you know, every

577
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:03,280
option that they've got when they go in there is shit.

578
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:04,560
I mean, it really is.

579
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:08,440
And I made my son's lunchbox from, you know, not preschool preschool.

580
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:09,600
Actually, they made real food.

581
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:10,600
It was amazing.

582
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:13,080
But elementary school through to he just entered his senior year.

583
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:14,800
Now he still takes a lunchbox with him.

584
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:18,800
And it's not that I'm doing anything special other than creating an environment where that's

585
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:20,760
been normal since he was a child.

586
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:25,560
But as I'm also very, you know, deliberate to point out, I'm an Englishman that grew

587
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:29,960
up on a farm that we had vegetables in the garden and an orchard and animals, you know,

588
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:35,100
so I was extremely lucky to be introduced to food in a very different way.

589
00:44:35,100 --> 00:44:40,480
So if we don't create an environment that normalizes exercise, that normalizes whole

590
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:44,440
foods, then, you know, children and their parents are doomed.

591
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:48,080
And you've got this multi-generational thing where, you know, mom and dad were raised on

592
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:52,680
McDonald's and, you know, fried chicken or, you know, Twinkies or whatever the things

593
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:55,800
were, you know, and they're they're, you know, comfort foods.

594
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:57,720
It's you know, chicken soup for the soul.

595
00:44:57,720 --> 00:44:59,500
But it's not it's bullshit.

596
00:44:59,500 --> 00:45:03,760
And I wonder now, I mean, you know, if you had stayed as that heavy little kid and your

597
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:08,080
path took you, for example, not in the military, but just or maybe even the military, but in

598
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:11,640
the computer programming, what would your physicality look like now?

599
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:13,080
What would your blood work look like now?

600
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:15,100
Would you still even be here now?

601
00:45:15,100 --> 00:45:18,800
Had you gone down that road of of continuing obesity?

602
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:22,760
Oh, man, probably not.

603
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:30,600
So my mother had diabetes and she was obese.

604
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:34,960
I was a chubby kid because she didn't really cook.

605
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:35,960
So we ate out a lot.

606
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:39,160
And I don't mean like we ate out like I had a lot of McDonald's.

607
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:41,520
I was a poster child from McDonald's.

608
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:46,880
I think one of my recurring memories as a child was having a five piece chicken McNugget

609
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:52,320
and watching down or sitting down to watch He-Man, you know, when He-Man was on TV, daytime

610
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:53,320
TV.

611
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:54,320
Yes, long, long time ago, folks.

612
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:59,120
But yeah, man, just thinking back to like some of the things that we ate, whether it

613
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:06,600
was microwave dinners or like bread and something that none of it was healthy.

614
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:12,800
I think I lost some of that weight moving into my teenage years just because continuing

615
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:17,040
the theme of poverty, I just didn't have enough money to eat.

616
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:20,320
So I wouldn't really eat breakfast, lunch.

617
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:26,480
Maybe if I had like 50 or 75 cents, I'd get a bag of candy from the high school spirit

618
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:27,760
shop or whatever was called.

619
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:29,040
I don't remember.

620
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:30,580
But I wouldn't really eat until dinner.

621
00:46:30,580 --> 00:46:36,420
So I lost a bunch of weight, but definitely not in a healthy manner.

622
00:46:36,420 --> 00:46:44,760
And man, Marine Corps, you know, they have PT requirements, which is great.

623
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:49,800
And they normally will let you go train early in the morning or at lunch or sometimes both

624
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:52,360
if you've got a very forgiving unit.

625
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:59,120
But okay, so the Marine Corps Crime Syndicate, what is it?

626
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:02,360
Marine Corps Community Services is the actual acronym, right?

627
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:12,480
But MCCS controls so the exchange, which is like the big grocery store, and then the PX,

628
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:18,080
which is like the smaller kind of 7-Eleven type store that you'll find at every different

629
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:20,760
individual camp in the Marine Corps.

630
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:25,260
So I've been on a couple of Army bases, but I don't remember a whole bunch of Army stuff.

631
00:47:25,260 --> 00:47:28,360
But the way Marine Corps bases work, like let's say Camp Hamilton, I spent most of my

632
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:29,360
career there, right?

633
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:37,680
So Camp Hamilton is this big, like almost county-sized landmass in Southern California.

634
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:40,880
And inside of Camp Hamilton, you will have individual areas.

635
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:48,560
So like 52 area, 51 area, 13 area, like those are all like small little cities inside of

636
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:51,000
this big county that is in Camp Hamilton.

637
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:56,520
And generally speaking, for every area, for every city, you will have a PX.

638
00:47:56,520 --> 00:48:05,680
And the options for food available in the PX are very snacky and high in sugar and not

639
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:10,200
really focused on health whatsoever.

640
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:17,720
And then the PX, kind of the same thing, man, like a general grocery store.

641
00:48:17,720 --> 00:48:24,480
And it might have been like 9 or 10 years in when I started looking around and noticing

642
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:30,560
that Marines were getting a little tight in the uniform, pushing the maximum tensile strength

643
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:31,800
of the fabric.

644
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:39,200
Like if you sneeze, you could kill someone with a button shooting off type of squishy.

645
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:40,400
And let's not get it twisted, man.

646
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:44,080
Like my call sign was Big Z for a while because I was a little chubby.

647
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:45,960
I could still operate.

648
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:52,880
But my first six years in the Marine Corps, I was definitely more squishy faced than hard

649
00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:54,320
ass.

650
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:58,280
And there's no one to tell you no.

651
00:48:58,280 --> 00:48:59,560
You know what I mean?

652
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:05,240
And the Marine Corps was given not a tax break, but they were given breaks on your height

653
00:49:05,240 --> 00:49:08,960
and weight standards if you could PT above a certain level.

654
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:09,960
Right?

655
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:14,880
I think if you get a 275 or 285 on your PFD out of 300.

656
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:18,760
So 285 points and 275 points out of 300, like you could be fat.

657
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:19,760
It's fine.

658
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:22,800
Obviously, there's some muscle and conditioning underneath the Jell-O.

659
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:23,800
So whatever.

660
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:27,160
We'll let you have some extra body fat percentages.

661
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:29,640
And it's an archaic method that they use anyway.

662
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:31,600
But there's no one to tell you no.

663
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:32,600
Right?

664
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:35,560
You could go to the chow hall and get dessert.

665
00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:36,560
And that's it.

666
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:37,560
Just dessert.

667
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:40,080
And you can have a whole lot of dessert.

668
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:44,640
Or you could go to the PX and buy as many, you know, insert your favorite snack item

669
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:47,760
here and just eat that all day.

670
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:49,600
And there's no one to tell you no.

671
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:58,040
And the only teeth that the Marine Corps has is the BNCP, Body Mass Control Program.

672
00:49:58,040 --> 00:49:59,040
I don't know.

673
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:01,520
I kind of flushed all this stuff out of my head because I don't need it anymore.

674
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:05,760
But you know, the run for lunch bunch, the fat kids of the Marine Corps are like, we're

675
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:09,160
going to put you on this program because you don't meet height and weight standards and

676
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:10,160
you're fat.

677
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:11,160
Right?

678
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:12,160
So there's some teeth there.

679
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:16,040
And then that will lead to separation from service.

680
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:20,520
So they put a category in your realistment package that says you can't realist.

681
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:23,760
But I didn't find that to be too prevalent.

682
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:30,460
I just kind of found that people would hover around that squishy enough but still thin

683
00:50:30,460 --> 00:50:34,600
enough to do my job and then just kind of eat whatever.

684
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:42,640
And the thing that leads over to like almost all tactical professions is the high op tempo,

685
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:49,120
the sleep, the coping mechanisms, and the poor dietary choices.

686
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:57,840
And that's a recipe for metabolic deficiencies and people who look healthy on the outside

687
00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:03,600
but internally are a fucking disaster.

688
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:07,280
And you know what, man?

689
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:12,280
I can honestly say it kind of changed when I went from parachute rigger.

690
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:16,760
Because there were some thick skinned riggers out there, man, let me tell you, some portly

691
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:17,760
individuals.

692
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:19,040
But they could pack parachutes.

693
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:23,240
So it's like, all right, whatever, pack that parachute, Chubby, self included.

694
00:51:23,240 --> 00:51:29,000
But I think the change came when I went from being a parachute rigger to a recon Marine.

695
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:33,880
And looking around at the guys in my team, like there's no one else.

696
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:40,320
I was one of the two Chubby kids in the entire platoon with my first group of guys.

697
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:46,480
And there was just an expectation of physicality that everyone had.

698
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:49,600
And if you could meet that, they didn't really care.

699
00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:55,160
Yeah, you had an extra 5, 10, 20 pounds, like great, you're carrying that obviously.

700
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:59,160
But if you can keep up with everyone else, that's really all that matters.

701
00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:05,960
So I think that was kind of a turning point alongside with my wife, who was desperately

702
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:07,800
trying to get me to eat vegetables.

703
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:12,960
Oh, man, I would not touch tomatoes unless it was ketchup form.

704
00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:13,960
She's like, that is so unhealthy.

705
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:16,080
I'm like, well, it's still tomato.

706
00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:18,680
She's like, man, no.

707
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:22,320
So big, big hat off to her.

708
00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:27,160
But also the community, man, just insofar as like, I don't think being fat is a great

709
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:28,520
idea.

710
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:32,000
And it's much harder to keep up with everyone.

711
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:34,280
But it was way easier to swim.

712
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:37,280
So much easier to swim when I was heavier.

713
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:38,920
I think like a stone always have.

714
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:43,840
It's funny, the heavy guys in lifeguarding when I did that years ago, you look at them

715
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:46,240
on the shore and be like, I don't know if I want to tow that guy.

716
00:52:46,240 --> 00:52:48,240
But it was completely backwards.

717
00:52:48,240 --> 00:52:50,880
The heavier guys would float like a fishing float.

718
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:54,960
And I was like a little skeleton that would just go vertical while they were trying to

719
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:55,960
tow me.

720
00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:58,000
So yeah, there's no question.

721
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:00,280
The leaner you are, the harder it is.

722
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:02,400
Oh, yeah, man.

723
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:11,240
I was, I wouldn't say the demise, but the woe of many a Martling, so marine awaiting

724
00:53:11,240 --> 00:53:16,840
reconnaissance training when I was working at Mart.

725
00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:19,880
We had them do rescues in the pool.

726
00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:21,800
And there's me and this other dude.

727
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:26,720
And we were just so ridiculously negatively buoyant that on a deep breath hold, we'd just

728
00:53:26,720 --> 00:53:33,080
be at the bottom, 12 feet water, staring up at a student who's supposed to have rescued

729
00:53:33,080 --> 00:53:34,560
us.

730
00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:38,320
And we'd just be like pantomiming, trying to do sign language underwater, holding our

731
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:41,600
breath like, I don't know, is anyone going to come and get me?

732
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:44,200
And looking at my watch, like, how long do I stay down here?

733
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:48,760
I'm trying to give this guy an honest shot at completing the drill, but I've been down

734
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:50,120
here and I'm starting to feel like I need to breathe.

735
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:53,080
I guess I'm just going to come up and he's a failure.

736
00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:57,000
And my boss was like, I don't understand how you're so negatively buoyant.

737
00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:58,000
Like you need to prove this.

738
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:00,400
So I was like, all right, man, check it out.

739
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:03,280
Took my shirt off and he's like, yo, what's going on with all this chest hair?

740
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:06,000
I'm like, oh, it's part of the negative buoyancy.

741
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:08,160
Take a deep breath and sank to the right, to the bottom.

742
00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:09,960
He was like, Hmm, yeah, okay.

743
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:10,960
That sucks.

744
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:12,960
I don't want to be in your line anymore.

745
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:15,400
Yeah, I was the same.

746
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:18,200
Even when I went diving, you know, they, they usually give you the belt depending on where

747
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:19,200
you dive in.

748
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:23,240
I literally don't need a belt like one way.

749
00:54:23,240 --> 00:54:24,240
I mean, it's ridiculous.

750
00:54:24,240 --> 00:54:25,840
I'm exactly the same.

751
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:30,120
If I, especially if I exhale boom, I'm down like a lead, you know, lead weight.

752
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:31,120
It's ridiculous.

753
00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:35,800
But, um, well, you mentioned recon just while we're on the kind of fitness standards official

754
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:40,560
or unofficial before we transition into deployments.

755
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:45,520
One thing that I find interesting, I think a good example is law enforcement and squat

756
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:46,520
selection.

757
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:50,440
You know, a lot of times law enforcement has a very low bar, not, not all the time.

758
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:54,160
Um, and then just like fire, you know, we have, we have a pretty decent bar, but then

759
00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:58,200
once you get in, you're never going to see that bar again, which is absolute insanity.

760
00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:03,840
But when you talk to the swap operators, you know, some of their testing may, may be appropriate.

761
00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:09,200
Maybe a little bit too far, you know, on one side, but they hold themselves to a higher

762
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:10,200
standard.

763
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:12,720
You've got to, you've got to repeat that qualification.

764
00:55:12,720 --> 00:55:17,480
Talk to me about that different expectation and recon and then what is your perspective

765
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:22,960
of, um, you know, just, just the elevation of all standards, because ultimately, as you

766
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:27,700
said, even if you were working at a desk, God forbid, you know, a bunch of North Koreans

767
00:55:27,700 --> 00:55:31,960
start skydiving into the U S you're going to have to pick up a rifle and function as

768
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:34,000
a Marine.

769
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:35,000
Wasn't that the new red dawn?

770
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:36,000
Yeah, I think so.

771
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:37,000
Yeah.

772
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:38,000
It was terrible.

773
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:39,000
I watched about

774
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:41,480
Yeah, I watched the old one.

775
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:43,760
I don't, I don't know the remakes are normally garbage.

776
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:49,160
Um, you know, man, I've put a lot of thought behind this, probably too much.

777
00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:54,640
And I doubt I'm the first person to say this, but I honestly think the level of physicality

778
00:55:54,640 --> 00:55:59,680
for any given unit has a lot to do with proximity to danger.

779
00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:00,920
Right?

780
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:08,080
There is a ton, like a dirth D E A R T H big science fancy word for a whole shitload, right?

781
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:13,760
Like fuck ton of scientific literature that will tell us how much better you will be at

782
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:16,160
your job physically and cognitively.

783
00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:20,520
If you have a high level of fitness, hard stop, right?

784
00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:24,120
aerobic capacity, strength, strength, speed, strength, endurance, like all the characteristics

785
00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:29,800
and traits of a high level athlete, you will be better at your job.

786
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:34,160
So when we look at the folks that have a closer proximity to danger, and we can start at the

787
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:38,480
top with special forces, and then if you want to start at the top of the top, like the tier

788
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:46,480
one assets to two soft, like folks who are not soft, but kind of do a soft mission, all

789
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:51,160
of the folks that have a higher proximity to danger, or a higher rhythm of proximity

790
00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:55,320
to danger, have higher levels of fitness.

791
00:56:55,320 --> 00:56:59,200
And for a while, I just kind of thought it was, well, you know, we have to walk to work

792
00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:00,880
and then the work actually starts, right?

793
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:04,560
Well, the infantry used to walk to work and their fitness standards is kind of like, keep

794
00:57:04,560 --> 00:57:05,960
up.

795
00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:11,800
But the further away you get from danger, like the wrench turners on aircraft and airframes,

796
00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:16,680
historically speaking, the Marine Corps, those are some of the fattest people on the planet,

797
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:21,320
because all they do is just put helicopters and planes back together.

798
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:27,400
And it's such a critical skill that the Marine Corps is like, you know, we don't want airplanes

799
00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:31,120
falling out of the sky, so you keep turning those wrenches, buddy, and here's another

800
00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:32,120
Twinkie.

801
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:39,800
So, I kind of feel like SWAT teams, smoke jumpers, smoke divers, like all of these specialized

802
00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:46,520
units out there in the tactical space, they've learned the lesson that it's easier to do

803
00:57:46,520 --> 00:57:49,200
your job when you're in shape.

804
00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:56,240
It's easier to have the mental capacity to make a good decision in a timely fashion when

805
00:57:56,240 --> 00:57:58,120
you're in shape.

806
00:57:58,120 --> 00:58:02,440
Like if I told you to walk down the street right now, and when you get to the end of

807
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:05,840
the street, I want you to make a decision about dinner.

808
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:10,240
You have to get all the ingredients to make it tonight and you have to make it tonight.

809
00:58:10,240 --> 00:58:11,240
Great.

810
00:58:11,240 --> 00:58:18,240
Now, if I told you I want you to do 40 minutes of 100 meter sprints, two minutes rest, right?

811
00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:21,480
You just sprint for 40 meters and then rest two minutes.

812
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:23,240
Keep doing that until an hour's done.

813
00:58:23,240 --> 00:58:26,800
Now I want you to make that same decision about dinner.

814
00:58:26,800 --> 00:58:29,960
Depending on your fitness level, you might be tits up right now.

815
00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:32,400
The ambulance is carting you off to the hospital.

816
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:35,960
You don't have any room to make that decision.

817
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:42,040
But if you're in decent shape, you've probably got enough in between sucking for air, like

818
00:58:42,040 --> 00:58:43,040
oh my God, okay, I want steak.

819
00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:44,040
Oh, I got to go to the store.

820
00:58:44,040 --> 00:58:48,000
All right, like all right, how long is it going to take me to recover all these things

821
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:52,920
so I can get the meal prep to cook dinner tonight with this task that I'm giving?

822
00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:56,400
So when you look around at the proximity to danger, like you don't have the time to press

823
00:58:56,400 --> 00:58:58,800
pause, you know, tactical timeout.

824
00:58:58,800 --> 00:59:01,120
Hey guys, please stop the shoe stings.

825
00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:03,360
I need to sit down and collect myself.

826
00:59:03,360 --> 00:59:04,360
I can't breathe.

827
00:59:04,360 --> 00:59:05,360
I can't see straight.

828
00:59:05,360 --> 00:59:06,720
I think I'm going to pass out.

829
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:09,760
So I think that's where a lot of it comes from, right?

830
00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:12,880
Like I've said this before, I'll say it again.

831
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:18,800
I would love to have been the person that coined it, but lives are at stake.

832
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:20,180
Full stop.

833
00:59:20,180 --> 00:59:27,000
If you are in a service industry uniform, if you're an EMT, paramedic, firefighter,

834
00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:33,560
wildlander, urban, police officer, anyone in the military, lives are at stake.

835
00:59:33,560 --> 00:59:37,480
Some point, somewhere, somehow, either your life, the lives to the men and women to your

836
00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:42,240
left and right, the lives of the people on the other end of the muzzle from you, or the

837
00:59:42,240 --> 00:59:44,840
lives of the community that you protect and serve.

838
00:59:44,840 --> 00:59:50,440
Right, you are doing this to protect life in some capacity.

839
00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:56,200
If you want to have that space mentally to be able to make a good decision, man, you

840
00:59:56,200 --> 00:59:57,680
don't ever rise to the occasion.

841
00:59:57,680 --> 01:00:00,640
You just fall back to your highest level of training.

842
01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:04,840
And if you haven't worked on the mental skills to get you through whatever that tough moment

843
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:08,520
is, and you haven't worked on the physical skills, conditioning and strength and aerobic

844
01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:15,040
capacity to get you to and through that point, it's going to be a rough go of it.

845
01:00:15,040 --> 01:00:16,040
Absolutely.

846
01:00:16,040 --> 01:00:17,040
Yeah, I think this is it.

847
01:00:17,040 --> 01:00:22,320
And when you look at law enforcement and fire, especially in fire, and we have special operations

848
01:00:22,320 --> 01:00:26,480
and I'll be the guys that their expertise is either the hazmat or is going to ropes

849
01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:30,920
and trench rescue and some of these other skill sets that we gain.

850
01:00:30,920 --> 01:00:35,840
But more often than not, there's actually a lower op tempo than the regular firefighter.

851
01:00:35,840 --> 01:00:39,840
So we are far more likely to be the first on scene.

852
01:00:39,840 --> 01:00:42,920
And I have a lot of those classes, but I never joined a team.

853
01:00:42,920 --> 01:00:46,640
So you're first like to be on scene and then those guys show up and guys and girls and

854
01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:50,260
they get their gear together and it's a very slow and steady operation.

855
01:00:50,260 --> 01:00:51,260
And the same with law enforcement.

856
01:00:51,260 --> 01:00:54,280
Yeah, when it comes to serving a warrant, it might be SWAT.

857
01:00:54,280 --> 01:00:58,640
God forbid it's some school shooting, but the first people on scene, as we saw in a

858
01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:01,820
Valde are going to be your regular officer.

859
01:01:01,820 --> 01:01:07,200
And so if we keep lowering, lowering, lowering the standards on people who aren't aircraft

860
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:12,040
mechanics, they're firefighters and police officers, then it's just a matter of time

861
01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:17,840
before God forbid you end up on YouTube getting almost murdered by someone on the street as

862
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:22,960
you try and do a foot pursuit or having a heart attack during a foot pursuit or as a

863
01:01:22,960 --> 01:01:28,680
firefighter tapping out three stories up and then the family of burns to death in the 10th

864
01:01:28,680 --> 01:01:29,680
floor.

865
01:01:29,680 --> 01:01:35,800
So this is the thing I think, you know, it's not the fire and police don't have the wrench

866
01:01:35,800 --> 01:01:39,120
turners, you know, if you're in uniform, you actually on the street.

867
01:01:39,120 --> 01:01:44,480
To me, we have to hold ourselves to the same standards as SWAT guys, because at any moment

868
01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:50,820
you could be in the same level of physicality than a SWAT operator would.

869
01:01:50,820 --> 01:01:55,200
God forbid someone enters a school with a gun or, you know, whatever that situation

870
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:56,200
is.

871
01:01:56,200 --> 01:02:01,360
So I agree with you, but I also disagree.

872
01:02:01,360 --> 01:02:05,760
And here's why I want to bring it back to that fat kid analogy, right?

873
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:08,760
Is it the kid's fault?

874
01:02:08,760 --> 01:02:10,140
It's not.

875
01:02:10,140 --> 01:02:17,680
So when we talk about the officers and the firefighters that are out of shape and overweight,

876
01:02:17,680 --> 01:02:26,160
is it their fault, like individualistically, 100% like put down the doughnut you fat fuck

877
01:02:26,160 --> 01:02:28,400
I get it.

878
01:02:28,400 --> 01:02:30,560
But who do they work for?

879
01:02:30,560 --> 01:02:33,140
Like who's the parent?

880
01:02:33,140 --> 01:02:35,200
And granted that dynamic has kind of changed, right?

881
01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:41,200
Because now the child has the opportunity and the assets to purchase whatever they want

882
01:02:41,200 --> 01:02:44,340
to eat and no one's going to, you know, naysay or stop them.

883
01:02:44,340 --> 01:02:51,400
But as the parent, even if you didn't expect that individual to ever come into harm's way,

884
01:02:51,400 --> 01:02:57,560
as the parent, you should have their best interest at heart.

885
01:02:57,560 --> 01:03:00,600
You should be like, hey, this is not a roster number.

886
01:03:00,600 --> 01:03:02,720
This is not a person on an Excel spreadsheet.

887
01:03:02,720 --> 01:03:03,720
Like this is a human.

888
01:03:03,720 --> 01:03:04,720
This is a human.

889
01:03:04,720 --> 01:03:05,720
This is someone's child.

890
01:03:05,720 --> 01:03:09,680
This might be someone's brother, sister, mother or father.

891
01:03:09,680 --> 01:03:11,560
Like this is a human.

892
01:03:11,560 --> 01:03:16,480
Every human needs and deserves to be well, hard fucking stop.

893
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:22,360
So as the parent, you should be like, hey, I'm worried about you.

894
01:03:22,360 --> 01:03:27,320
I don't know a lot of science, but here's what the people on ABC and CNN tell me about

895
01:03:27,320 --> 01:03:28,320
being fat.

896
01:03:28,320 --> 01:03:32,000
Here's what your life expectancy looks like.

897
01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:37,520
We don't even have to get into sleep restriction, sleep deprivation, stress, suicide.

898
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:39,680
We don't even have to get into that.

899
01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:41,840
Just you overweight.

900
01:03:41,840 --> 01:03:44,080
Here's what your risk stratification looks like.

901
01:03:44,080 --> 01:03:49,400
I'm concerned because I know as a human, you probably have a family.

902
01:03:49,400 --> 01:03:51,680
You have people who care about you.

903
01:03:51,680 --> 01:03:55,960
You have people that you care about, and you want to be able to care about them for as

904
01:03:55,960 --> 01:04:01,960
long as possible and not be a burden on them because you're a service minded individual.

905
01:04:01,960 --> 01:04:07,360
You joined this noble profession to serve your community in some way, shape or form.

906
01:04:07,360 --> 01:04:12,880
The last thing you want to do is burden someone else with your bullshit or your health complications.

907
01:04:12,880 --> 01:04:17,240
So as the parent, as the institution, as the agency, I should be looking at you and be

908
01:04:17,240 --> 01:04:21,800
like, I want you to be as healthy for as long as possible to help you, number one.

909
01:04:21,800 --> 01:04:26,680
Number two, I say this in secret because even though I'm an institution and I care about

910
01:04:26,680 --> 01:04:31,160
you, there are people who are concerned with money.

911
01:04:31,160 --> 01:04:34,660
So as the institution, now I'm whispering because I'm concerned with money.

912
01:04:34,660 --> 01:04:38,080
I don't want you to go away because I spent a lot of money to get you where you are right

913
01:04:38,080 --> 01:04:39,080
now.

914
01:04:39,080 --> 01:04:40,080
I trained you.

915
01:04:40,080 --> 01:04:41,080
I equipped you.

916
01:04:41,080 --> 01:04:42,360
I pay you for overtime.

917
01:04:42,360 --> 01:04:44,760
I want you to stick around for a really long time.

918
01:04:44,760 --> 01:04:47,540
And if you die because you're fat and out of shape, then I have to replace you.

919
01:04:47,540 --> 01:04:50,580
And that's a burden financially on me.

920
01:04:50,580 --> 01:04:54,280
So I want you to stay in this noble profession for as long as possible because you're very

921
01:04:54,280 --> 01:04:56,880
costly to replace.

922
01:04:56,880 --> 01:05:01,400
I know we're getting steps away from the humanity side of it, which I think is a travesty, but

923
01:05:01,400 --> 01:05:03,280
likely the reality.

924
01:05:03,280 --> 01:05:06,440
And now we get into staffing and recruiting.

925
01:05:06,440 --> 01:05:09,000
I don't have enough people to bring in to replace you.

926
01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:15,440
Used to be, there were, I don't know what you call them, tryouts, not auditions.

927
01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:16,720
You're not tap dancing or anything.

928
01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:24,080
But when they were accepting applications, hundreds of people would try out to be a firefighter.

929
01:05:24,080 --> 01:05:26,280
Now we are in the single digits.

930
01:05:26,280 --> 01:05:28,920
We'll take whoever we can get type of place.

931
01:05:28,920 --> 01:05:32,200
And I say this as an outsider looking in, never been a firefighter.

932
01:05:32,200 --> 01:05:38,040
May or may not be a Wildland hotshot at some point, but that's later on in the conversation.

933
01:05:38,040 --> 01:05:43,760
But when we look at like, we can't keep people under helmets or behind badges.

934
01:05:43,760 --> 01:05:46,200
How do we protect the community we have now for Christ's sake?

935
01:05:46,200 --> 01:05:48,320
Like there's no one else to come.

936
01:05:48,320 --> 01:05:49,960
There's no one else backfilling these people.

937
01:05:49,960 --> 01:05:54,680
How do we keep them around as long as possible and cover our own asses with a force that

938
01:05:54,680 --> 01:05:58,680
is healthy enough to do the job for a very long time?

939
01:05:58,680 --> 01:06:05,400
Maybe we should start talking about health, wellness, and fitness standards because we're

940
01:06:05,400 --> 01:06:09,200
not hitting it right now and our populations are just fat and out of shape and all these

941
01:06:09,200 --> 01:06:13,480
other bad things are happening and they keep going away and we're dwindling down in capacity

942
01:06:13,480 --> 01:06:17,320
to now where overtime, I thought overtime was an option.

943
01:06:17,320 --> 01:06:21,040
I hear the word mandatory overtime and I'm like, I thought mandatory was a thing they

944
01:06:21,040 --> 01:06:23,360
kept in the military.

945
01:06:23,360 --> 01:06:25,520
Like you signed a contract, I'd do whatever I want with you.

946
01:06:25,520 --> 01:06:29,440
Liberty is a privilege, not a right.

947
01:06:29,440 --> 01:06:30,440
You get to work on the weekends.

948
01:06:30,440 --> 01:06:31,440
Ha ha.

949
01:06:31,440 --> 01:06:36,320
I didn't know mandatory was a thing for the first responder communities.

950
01:06:36,320 --> 01:06:37,320
So why are we doing mandatory?

951
01:06:37,320 --> 01:06:40,440
Well, because we don't have enough people to fill all the shifts.

952
01:06:40,440 --> 01:06:41,560
Oh, okay.

953
01:06:41,560 --> 01:06:44,360
So we're not concerned with how healthy people are.

954
01:06:44,360 --> 01:06:47,200
We don't have enough people to do the job and we're just going to grind you down into

955
01:06:47,200 --> 01:06:51,520
nothing until ellipsis dot dot dot because I don't know what happens when there's no

956
01:06:51,520 --> 01:06:52,520
one left.

957
01:06:52,520 --> 01:06:54,320
We'll just lower, you know, whatever.

958
01:06:54,320 --> 01:06:57,140
We'll take senior citizens, 65 and older.

959
01:06:57,140 --> 01:06:58,140
You want to run hoes?

960
01:06:58,140 --> 01:06:59,140
Great.

961
01:06:59,140 --> 01:07:01,140
Come on down because there's no one left.

962
01:07:01,140 --> 01:07:03,240
Yeah, we appreciate it.

963
01:07:03,240 --> 01:07:08,680
No, no, no, it's good because the other the other side of that is and then I've talked

964
01:07:08,680 --> 01:07:09,680
about this a lot.

965
01:07:09,680 --> 01:07:14,960
And as we record this today, the city of Gainesville, Florida, their fire rescue has just gone to

966
01:07:14,960 --> 01:07:19,920
a 24 72 work week, which we won't go down that too deep because I talk about the time,

967
01:07:19,920 --> 01:07:25,260
but they have seen the financial savings and I hope coupled into that is the wellness of

968
01:07:25,260 --> 01:07:26,260
their men and women.

969
01:07:26,260 --> 01:07:27,560
I'm sure it is.

970
01:07:27,560 --> 01:07:30,680
And they were like, okay, you know, we're going to get you down to a 42 hour work week

971
01:07:30,680 --> 01:07:32,480
and what has happened?

972
01:07:32,480 --> 01:07:33,480
Imagine this.

973
01:07:33,480 --> 01:07:36,920
A bunch of people have testing for him now because they're like, oh, this agency actually

974
01:07:36,920 --> 01:07:37,920
gets it.

975
01:07:37,920 --> 01:07:41,460
Now they have I don't know if it's in every station, but I've seen the newest stations.

976
01:07:41,460 --> 01:07:42,720
They have gyms in there.

977
01:07:42,720 --> 01:07:45,760
You know, Gainesville was known for a lot of very fit people.

978
01:07:45,760 --> 01:07:47,080
You talked about the smoke diver program.

979
01:07:47,080 --> 01:07:50,280
A lot of the Gainesville firefighters have gone through that.

980
01:07:50,280 --> 01:07:54,760
You know, there's there's a culture of training and fitness in that department, but you can't

981
01:07:54,760 --> 01:07:59,660
have that in an environment that breaks people down because those driven firefighters end

982
01:07:59,660 --> 01:08:00,660
up breaking.

983
01:08:00,660 --> 01:08:05,360
And I did, you know, when you're working 56 and eight hour weeks, if you get mandatory,

984
01:08:05,360 --> 01:08:08,440
you know, and then you get that kind of lack of support and you're trying to make a difference,

985
01:08:08,440 --> 01:08:12,400
you get told to sit down and shut up, you know, mentally and physically, it does, it

986
01:08:12,400 --> 01:08:13,620
breaks you.

987
01:08:13,620 --> 01:08:17,360
What you want, like you said, is a desirable profession.

988
01:08:17,360 --> 01:08:19,960
And I always use the ocean lifeguards as an example.

989
01:08:19,960 --> 01:08:22,680
When do you see an obese ocean lifeguard?

990
01:08:22,680 --> 01:08:28,440
You don't because from the fucking front door, they said every year we are going to be expect

991
01:08:28,440 --> 01:08:32,760
you to be able to do X, Y and Z, you know, and then but then on the job training to,

992
01:08:32,760 --> 01:08:36,720
you know, before we put the towers up, we're going to do our half mile swim and some toe

993
01:08:36,720 --> 01:08:38,240
training and CPR.

994
01:08:38,240 --> 01:08:40,800
And so that's all inbuilt as well.

995
01:08:40,800 --> 01:08:45,800
And it just blows my mind because absolutely this is why this this conversation has failed.

996
01:08:45,800 --> 01:08:47,280
People are pointing, it's blamestorming.

997
01:08:47,280 --> 01:08:49,880
Oh, well, the administration needs to give me everything.

998
01:08:49,880 --> 01:08:54,320
No, you need to have ownership and do your shit when you're on your days off as well.

999
01:08:54,320 --> 01:09:00,040
Also, the the administration needs to give you a work week that allows you to go home

1000
01:09:00,040 --> 01:09:04,000
with your family, allows you rest and recovery, allows you to do strength and conditioning

1001
01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:07,200
and jujitsu and whatever else that you do on the side.

1002
01:09:07,200 --> 01:09:12,000
And then, you know, facilities to do it while you're on the on the job as well in the station.

1003
01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:13,320
So it's not one or the other.

1004
01:09:13,320 --> 01:09:14,320
It's both.

1005
01:09:14,320 --> 01:09:19,480
And just like we said, with the nation's obesity epidemic, you change the environment to 100

1006
01:09:19,480 --> 01:09:24,640
years ago where food was just food and you had to walk to a lot of places or ride your

1007
01:09:24,640 --> 01:09:25,760
bike.

1008
01:09:25,760 --> 01:09:31,040
The obesity epidemic will be over in 20 years, you know, so it's the environment and the

1009
01:09:31,040 --> 01:09:32,040
individual.

1010
01:09:32,040 --> 01:09:34,960
But as you said about, you know, take that doughnut out your mouth.

1011
01:09:34,960 --> 01:09:36,840
That's part of the conversation.

1012
01:09:36,840 --> 01:09:40,800
But you've also got to understand that if you create an environment that is going to

1013
01:09:40,800 --> 01:09:45,080
make people fatter and sicker, you know, if you've got an understaffed police department

1014
01:09:45,080 --> 01:09:49,680
where they're stuck, single man in a police car for 12 hours at a time and all they have

1015
01:09:49,680 --> 01:09:51,760
in their first due is fast food.

1016
01:09:51,760 --> 01:09:52,760
Yes, I get it.

1017
01:09:52,760 --> 01:09:56,240
You can meal prep and all the other things, but you are set up for failure.

1018
01:09:56,240 --> 01:09:57,640
You are going to gain weight.

1019
01:09:57,640 --> 01:09:58,920
You are going to be hypertensive.

1020
01:09:58,920 --> 01:10:00,360
You are going to be pre-diabetic.

1021
01:10:00,360 --> 01:10:04,720
Your testosterone is going to be 250 and you're only 28 years old.

1022
01:10:04,720 --> 01:10:06,040
This is science.

1023
01:10:06,040 --> 01:10:13,520
So underlining what you said, the onus is on the establishment, not for the ownership,

1024
01:10:13,520 --> 01:10:15,600
to create an environment of healing.

1025
01:10:15,600 --> 01:10:17,760
And then you can put that fucking bar high.

1026
01:10:17,760 --> 01:10:21,880
And if your officers or your firefighters don't reach it, you know, within a reasonable

1027
01:10:21,880 --> 01:10:26,720
amount of time and you've given an opportunity to show that they want it, that's when that's

1028
01:10:26,720 --> 01:10:27,720
why probation is there.

1029
01:10:27,720 --> 01:10:28,720
All right.

1030
01:10:28,720 --> 01:10:29,720
You didn't meet the bar.

1031
01:10:29,720 --> 01:10:30,720
Thank you so much.

1032
01:10:30,720 --> 01:10:33,880
You know, you're probably an amazing electrician, but you're not the right cut for us as a police

1033
01:10:33,880 --> 01:10:35,600
officer or a firefighter.

1034
01:10:35,600 --> 01:10:41,200
But with zero bar, with a recruitment crisis, you've got some phenomenal men and women that

1035
01:10:41,200 --> 01:10:44,000
are going to be great police officers and firefighters.

1036
01:10:44,000 --> 01:10:48,720
And you've got the turds and they're all being scooped up at the moment.

1037
01:10:48,720 --> 01:10:51,800
Yeah, man, there's a lot to unpack in there.

1038
01:10:51,800 --> 01:10:57,240
And I think like when it comes down to it, the shift schedule is kind of inhibitive.

1039
01:10:57,240 --> 01:10:58,240
Right.

1040
01:10:58,240 --> 01:11:01,120
You can talk about health, wellness and fitness all you want.

1041
01:11:01,120 --> 01:11:08,160
But man, I'll tell you, like from a coach's perspective, the training that you do is important.

1042
01:11:08,160 --> 01:11:09,160
Right.

1043
01:11:09,160 --> 01:11:13,440
You know, whether it's an hour or two hours, the type, frequency, intensity, time type,

1044
01:11:13,440 --> 01:11:14,440
all that's important.

1045
01:11:14,440 --> 01:11:19,120
But the other 22 to 23 hours of your day are equally as important.

1046
01:11:19,120 --> 01:11:21,640
Like you can't outrun your fork.

1047
01:11:21,640 --> 01:11:23,600
So I can't do anything for you there.

1048
01:11:23,600 --> 01:11:29,440
But if you are high stress, low sleep, alcohol intake, highly caffeinated nicotine, like

1049
01:11:29,440 --> 01:11:31,520
there's no training program on the planet.

1050
01:11:31,520 --> 01:11:33,480
I don't care who wrote it.

1051
01:11:33,480 --> 01:11:38,320
There's no training program out there that can compete with all of this shit that your

1052
01:11:38,320 --> 01:11:40,840
job is subjecting you to.

1053
01:11:40,840 --> 01:11:44,000
Like there's science right now, dude, like I can pull up a handful of studies that show

1054
01:11:44,000 --> 01:11:46,480
you if you are sleep restricted, not deprived.

1055
01:11:46,480 --> 01:11:48,040
So sleep deprivation is nothing.

1056
01:11:48,040 --> 01:11:49,040
No sleep whatsoever.

1057
01:11:49,040 --> 01:11:50,120
Wide awake.

1058
01:11:50,120 --> 01:11:52,960
Sleep restricted is like supposed to get seven and a half to nine.

1059
01:11:52,960 --> 01:11:57,600
I got six or I got four and a half or I got two episodes of two hours or three hours and

1060
01:11:57,600 --> 01:11:59,920
then 15 minutes because the alarm went off again.

1061
01:11:59,920 --> 01:12:03,300
If you are in that sleep restricted state, there are signs right now that will tell you

1062
01:12:03,300 --> 01:12:07,920
like if you had a plate of donuts in front of you and a plate of broccoli, independent

1063
01:12:07,920 --> 01:12:13,280
of how you feel about either one of those, your brain will gravitate towards the donuts.

1064
01:12:13,280 --> 01:12:17,080
So dietary choices are affected by your sleep status.

1065
01:12:17,080 --> 01:12:19,120
And like you said, meal prep, sure, great.

1066
01:12:19,120 --> 01:12:22,240
Like if there's something in the station, man, I was talking to some firefighters here

1067
01:12:22,240 --> 01:12:26,480
a couple of weeks ago, like ice cream is one of their favorite things in between calls

1068
01:12:26,480 --> 01:12:29,000
in the middle of the night, especially in the summer when it's hot.

1069
01:12:29,000 --> 01:12:32,800
I'm like, man, we need to talk about the ice cream in here because in addition to what

1070
01:12:32,800 --> 01:12:36,640
this is doing and how these carbohydrates affect your body and trying to get to sleep,

1071
01:12:36,640 --> 01:12:40,280
like this is not the right approach.

1072
01:12:40,280 --> 01:12:42,780
But again, they're in that sleep restricted state.

1073
01:12:42,780 --> 01:12:46,800
So it's harder for them to make the good decisions dietarily.

1074
01:12:46,800 --> 01:12:51,720
So again, when we talk about like where the onus is, I think you said it 100% correctly,

1075
01:12:51,720 --> 01:12:56,680
like the onus is on the institution and the agency to create the environment.

1076
01:12:56,680 --> 01:12:59,920
And that's not just for the leadership to say, hey, your health is important to us,

1077
01:12:59,920 --> 01:13:03,300
but like, okay, how do we manage the schedules?

1078
01:13:03,300 --> 01:13:08,600
How do we manage the shifts to get you to a point where you have the opportunity to

1079
01:13:08,600 --> 01:13:11,680
attend to your health, wellness and fitness?

1080
01:13:11,680 --> 01:13:14,840
There's an agency that I worked with recently.

1081
01:13:14,840 --> 01:13:23,080
They don't allow their employees to do physical training while on the clock.

1082
01:13:23,080 --> 01:13:24,080
Strictly prohibited.

1083
01:13:24,080 --> 01:13:25,080
That's number one.

1084
01:13:25,080 --> 01:13:31,600
Number two, there is no facility in the entirety of where this agency is.

1085
01:13:31,600 --> 01:13:37,200
There's no facility for their employees to conduct physical exercise.

1086
01:13:37,200 --> 01:13:40,240
So no gyms, no treadmills, no nothing.

1087
01:13:40,240 --> 01:13:43,920
So when you look at those employees and you're like, hey, you need to be in shape.

1088
01:13:43,920 --> 01:13:48,560
It's almost like I feel like you're standing in the way and telling me no, independent

1089
01:13:48,560 --> 01:13:50,480
of what you are telling me I need to be in shape.

1090
01:13:50,480 --> 01:13:52,720
Like how do I support this?

1091
01:13:52,720 --> 01:13:54,320
I can't do it while I'm on the job.

1092
01:13:54,320 --> 01:13:57,560
Now I got to go out and pay for a gym membership on my own.

1093
01:13:57,560 --> 01:14:02,200
And maybe I should because I'm a decent human being, but how does this affect the shift

1094
01:14:02,200 --> 01:14:03,200
work that I'm doing?

1095
01:14:03,200 --> 01:14:05,920
How do all these things line up?

1096
01:14:05,920 --> 01:14:09,880
Another agency that I was talking to because I listened to the podcast.

1097
01:14:09,880 --> 01:14:14,720
I can't remember their names, but Matt sat right next to me when we were together last

1098
01:14:14,720 --> 01:14:18,920
year in Florida talking about 2472.

1099
01:14:18,920 --> 01:14:22,600
And I know that was kind of the big push we were looking at and all of the reasons why.

1100
01:14:22,600 --> 01:14:26,120
So many reasons, too many reasons why that's a better idea.

1101
01:14:26,120 --> 01:14:30,680
And the push here was for a 48 144.

1102
01:14:30,680 --> 01:14:34,600
And guys were like, six days, dude, like, prove me wrong.

1103
01:14:34,600 --> 01:14:35,600
That's amazing.

1104
01:14:35,600 --> 01:14:37,600
Six days off.

1105
01:14:37,600 --> 01:14:40,080
I'm like, oh, okay, sure.

1106
01:14:40,080 --> 01:14:41,080
Six days off.

1107
01:14:41,080 --> 01:14:42,080
Let's walk this back.

1108
01:14:42,080 --> 01:14:47,520
Like that first day, that 24 hour shift, like how is it normally, you know, people, there's

1109
01:14:47,520 --> 01:14:50,160
a guy who drives three hours to get to work.

1110
01:14:50,160 --> 01:14:52,640
He looks like I almost stayed away.

1111
01:14:52,640 --> 01:14:55,200
They gave him a whole bunch of shit when I was there talking to him.

1112
01:14:55,200 --> 01:14:58,760
And he's like, okay, so your shift starts at seven o'clock in the morning.

1113
01:14:58,760 --> 01:15:00,760
You're not getting any sleep the night before.

1114
01:15:00,760 --> 01:15:04,520
So you're showing up to work in a sleep restricted state, right?

1115
01:15:04,520 --> 01:15:10,280
You're already looking at poor dietary decisions, your cognitive functions going down, a little

1116
01:15:10,280 --> 01:15:13,040
bit of a hormonal disruption, but nothing too bad.

1117
01:15:13,040 --> 01:15:16,480
So you work that 24 hour shift and who knows what that shift is like.

1118
01:15:16,480 --> 01:15:19,840
Maybe it's ghost town and nobody calls or maybe the alarm goes off.

1119
01:15:19,840 --> 01:15:22,900
You know, every 45 minutes you get no sleep at all.

1120
01:15:22,900 --> 01:15:26,800
So now you are, you know, because you want two days on and six days off, you are pigeonholed

1121
01:15:26,800 --> 01:15:28,800
into this schedule.

1122
01:15:28,800 --> 01:15:31,600
And what does it look like for that second day?

1123
01:15:31,600 --> 01:15:32,600
Right?

1124
01:15:32,600 --> 01:15:37,000
The rig, the fire truck, that's a 30,000 pound missile.

1125
01:15:37,000 --> 01:15:41,000
And we talked about this, like, hey, what's the difference between drunk driving and drowsy

1126
01:15:41,000 --> 01:15:42,700
driving?

1127
01:15:42,700 --> 01:15:44,920
And one of the smartasses was like, alcohol.

1128
01:15:44,920 --> 01:15:45,920
Okay, great.

1129
01:15:45,920 --> 01:15:47,020
You know, alcohol.

1130
01:15:47,020 --> 01:15:49,120
There's a difference between drunk driving and drowsy driving.

1131
01:15:49,120 --> 01:15:50,120
It's not alcohol.

1132
01:15:50,120 --> 01:15:52,840
It's the crash profile.

1133
01:15:52,840 --> 01:15:59,360
So like these investigators can tell by tire treads, skid marks, vehicle trajectory, paint

1134
01:15:59,360 --> 01:16:02,960
transfer, whether there was a decision or no decision.

1135
01:16:02,960 --> 01:16:05,520
So drunk driving, there's normally a decision.

1136
01:16:05,520 --> 01:16:06,520
Just too late.

1137
01:16:06,520 --> 01:16:11,880
You know, your reaction time being drunk, slowed down to where, ah, turned too slow.

1138
01:16:11,880 --> 01:16:14,580
I stepped on the brakes too slow and I crashed.

1139
01:16:14,580 --> 01:16:17,960
If you are having a micro sleep, there is no decision at all.

1140
01:16:17,960 --> 01:16:18,960
You're out.

1141
01:16:18,960 --> 01:16:21,000
Everything is off, turned off.

1142
01:16:21,000 --> 01:16:23,960
And that thing is just headed in the last direction that you pointed it out at the speed

1143
01:16:23,960 --> 01:16:26,140
that you had it moving.

1144
01:16:26,140 --> 01:16:29,640
So you know, a 3,000 pound car, you do a lot of damage.

1145
01:16:29,640 --> 01:16:32,120
You can kill a lot of people in a car.

1146
01:16:32,120 --> 01:16:36,680
A 30,000 pound vehicle is like, man, that's carnage.

1147
01:16:36,680 --> 01:16:39,080
That's like mass murder scenario, right?

1148
01:16:39,080 --> 01:16:42,680
So who absorbs that risk?

1149
01:16:42,680 --> 01:16:45,680
That's that agency that absorbs the risk, right?

1150
01:16:45,680 --> 01:16:47,080
How much sleep is your driver getting?

1151
01:16:47,080 --> 01:16:48,400
I don't know.

1152
01:16:48,400 --> 01:16:49,400
Same as everyone else.

1153
01:16:49,400 --> 01:16:50,400
Cool.

1154
01:16:50,400 --> 01:16:54,840
This poor man or woman had three hours of sleep in two days and they, you know, everyone

1155
01:16:54,840 --> 01:16:59,200
fought hard for this two days on, six days off, which sounded magical.

1156
01:16:59,200 --> 01:17:01,680
And how are we doing on day two?

1157
01:17:01,680 --> 01:17:02,680
How's everybody feeling?

1158
01:17:02,680 --> 01:17:03,960
How's our response time?

1159
01:17:03,960 --> 01:17:05,400
What's our call volume?

1160
01:17:05,400 --> 01:17:06,480
How much sleep did we get?

1161
01:17:06,480 --> 01:17:08,680
Like what are we actually doing?

1162
01:17:08,680 --> 01:17:11,720
And the more we started talking about all the terrible things that go wrong with poor

1163
01:17:11,720 --> 01:17:15,800
sleep and now you're six days off, isn't really six days off.

1164
01:17:15,800 --> 01:17:21,720
Alison Breger, she'll be an astronaut inside of two years, beautiful, smart, intelligent

1165
01:17:21,720 --> 01:17:22,720
young lady.

1166
01:17:22,720 --> 01:17:26,680
She and I have been talking about sleep a lot and I lean very heavily on her work because

1167
01:17:26,680 --> 01:17:29,860
she's done some pretty interesting things with soldiers.

1168
01:17:29,860 --> 01:17:34,200
Every one night of sleep takes two nights to recover from.

1169
01:17:34,200 --> 01:17:37,760
And when that's like microphone drop level stuff.

1170
01:17:37,760 --> 01:17:40,660
And when I said that, people were like, wait, what?

1171
01:17:40,660 --> 01:17:44,720
So then a very intelligent person in the crowd was like, well, hey, what happens if you,

1172
01:17:44,720 --> 01:17:48,640
you know, two nights of poor sleep, how long does it take to recover from that?

1173
01:17:48,640 --> 01:17:50,240
I said, man, I don't know.

1174
01:17:50,240 --> 01:17:51,240
I got to ask Alison.

1175
01:17:51,240 --> 01:17:52,240
She's a smart one here.

1176
01:17:52,240 --> 01:17:54,680
And she's like, man, it's not linear.

1177
01:17:54,680 --> 01:17:57,040
It doesn't go, you know, one to two and then two to four.

1178
01:17:57,040 --> 01:18:01,260
Like there's a host of things that happen that change the way this goes.

1179
01:18:01,260 --> 01:18:05,760
So now when we're talking about two nights of different sleep, like how many of those

1180
01:18:05,760 --> 01:18:11,960
does it take for you to get back to good inside of those six days off?

1181
01:18:11,960 --> 01:18:17,240
And it was a tough conversation, man, but I like to feel that maybe some folks are a

1182
01:18:17,240 --> 01:18:23,720
little bit more interested in looking at what other smart departments were doing as opposed

1183
01:18:23,720 --> 01:18:27,960
to just fighting something that seemed magical at the outset.

1184
01:18:27,960 --> 01:18:33,680
I had Alison on, it would be God, this is eight years old now, probably six years ago.

1185
01:18:33,680 --> 01:18:38,520
And then again, a couple of years later, it's episode 117 and 513.

1186
01:18:38,520 --> 01:18:43,640
I've had Rachel Marquardt on who's her kind of Navy partner.

1187
01:18:43,640 --> 01:18:48,080
And again, and I've had people from the Air Force, from the SEAL community, from the sporting

1188
01:18:48,080 --> 01:18:53,000
community and everyone says the same thing, but what's really interesting slash scary

1189
01:18:53,000 --> 01:18:59,520
and it totally underlines my agreement with you on the insanity of 48 hours is a lot of

1190
01:18:59,520 --> 01:19:04,760
people that have started to kind of understand this will talk about Matthew Walker's book

1191
01:19:04,760 --> 01:19:10,080
and they'll say, oh, you know, one night without sleep is the same as a blood alcohol of 0.1.

1192
01:19:10,080 --> 01:19:12,320
And I say, well, yeah, that's interesting.

1193
01:19:12,320 --> 01:19:17,600
But anyone who knows what studies normally look like, it's a professor in a college and

1194
01:19:17,600 --> 01:19:22,320
they put out to the students in that college, hey, we're doing a study, earn yourself a

1195
01:19:22,320 --> 01:19:24,600
hundred dollars worth of beer money.

1196
01:19:24,600 --> 01:19:30,640
So you have these 18, 19, 20 year old kids that usually sleep pretty well aside from

1197
01:19:30,640 --> 01:19:31,960
party nights.

1198
01:19:31,960 --> 01:19:36,360
And they do this study and they do 24 hours without sleep and then they go back to school.

1199
01:19:36,360 --> 01:19:41,280
They're not doing it every third day, sometimes two days in a row because of mandatory overtime

1200
01:19:41,280 --> 01:19:46,280
or two days in a row because their department for some unknown fucking reason decided that

1201
01:19:46,280 --> 01:19:52,380
98, you know, sorry, 48, 96 or even more was the answer.

1202
01:19:52,380 --> 01:19:58,800
But if you have a cognitive level of 0.1 with great sleep prior to that for this one off

1203
01:19:58,800 --> 01:20:04,480
study, what is the cumulative effect of 24 and then what is the cumulative effect of

1204
01:20:04,480 --> 01:20:05,480
48?

1205
01:20:05,480 --> 01:20:11,280
I would argue if you could actually calibrate that, it would be horrendous.

1206
01:20:11,280 --> 01:20:16,320
And I can say my own personal experience, I remember driving onto the front apron of

1207
01:20:16,320 --> 01:20:19,720
a fire station, knowing the area that I worked out really well.

1208
01:20:19,720 --> 01:20:23,520
I couldn't even remember if I was supposed to turn left or right to go to this call out

1209
01:20:23,520 --> 01:20:24,840
the front fucking door.

1210
01:20:24,840 --> 01:20:26,620
That's how exhausted I was.

1211
01:20:26,620 --> 01:20:32,200
So there's a guarantee if you could calibrate it, it would be so much more than 0.1.

1212
01:20:32,200 --> 01:20:34,440
It would be off the fucking charts.

1213
01:20:34,440 --> 01:20:39,120
Yeah, Alison pointed me to some research that they've done in Harvard and I didn't pull

1214
01:20:39,120 --> 01:20:41,560
it up because I honestly didn't make the time for it.

1215
01:20:41,560 --> 01:20:46,200
But man, like scary things happen after two days with little to no sleep.

1216
01:20:46,200 --> 01:20:47,200
Right.

1217
01:20:47,200 --> 01:20:48,200
And it's not just the fire service.

1218
01:20:48,200 --> 01:20:50,520
It's not just police officers.

1219
01:20:50,520 --> 01:20:55,360
We used to say this in the recon community, man, we plan all day for a night up.

1220
01:20:55,360 --> 01:20:58,000
And then how'd you sleep the night before that?

1221
01:20:58,000 --> 01:20:59,000
I don't know.

1222
01:20:59,000 --> 01:21:03,400
Like this was a last minute decision type thing, the crisis action team.

1223
01:21:03,400 --> 01:21:06,200
So we plan all day for the night up and then we go do the night up and things go a little

1224
01:21:06,200 --> 01:21:07,240
bit wonky.

1225
01:21:07,240 --> 01:21:08,240
And that sucks.

1226
01:21:08,240 --> 01:21:13,720
But you know, normally like day two on patrol is when all the weird shit starts happening.

1227
01:21:13,720 --> 01:21:14,840
You know, it used to be six.

1228
01:21:14,840 --> 01:21:19,520
I don't know what they're running with recon teams these days.

1229
01:21:19,520 --> 01:21:25,600
But when I was doing it was a six man team and one of the one of the rules we tried to

1230
01:21:25,600 --> 01:21:29,120
adhere to is never go below 50% for security.

1231
01:21:29,120 --> 01:21:35,400
So that means three people are up and awake at all time, you know, to keep the patrol

1232
01:21:35,400 --> 01:21:36,400
safe.

1233
01:21:36,400 --> 01:21:43,000
Well, it's not just these three guys like, you know, each one of them has 120 degrees

1234
01:21:43,000 --> 01:21:44,000
of security.

1235
01:21:44,000 --> 01:21:45,520
Like there's priorities of work.

1236
01:21:45,520 --> 01:21:47,440
You have to write reports.

1237
01:21:47,440 --> 01:21:49,360
Somebody's taking pictures.

1238
01:21:49,360 --> 01:21:51,560
Somebody's monitoring the radio.

1239
01:21:51,560 --> 01:21:57,320
So really it's like one dude on security and you know, he's trying not to fall asleep pointing

1240
01:21:57,320 --> 01:22:01,440
his gun in one direction and the other two jerks are busy working.

1241
01:22:01,440 --> 01:22:05,840
And you know, it's never like, hey, eight hours on eight hours off, right?

1242
01:22:05,840 --> 01:22:10,960
It comes down to when there's a lot of work to be done, we'll have the whole team up.

1243
01:22:10,960 --> 01:22:14,480
And you know, the radio folks are getting calm.

1244
01:22:14,480 --> 01:22:19,640
And then, you know, maybe our snipers and our scouts are getting pictures so they're

1245
01:22:19,640 --> 01:22:20,640
away.

1246
01:22:20,640 --> 01:22:23,040
We've got two guys out detached from the patrol.

1247
01:22:23,040 --> 01:22:27,520
Now we've got four people here, you know, maybe one of them is on the rest plan.

1248
01:22:27,520 --> 01:22:31,800
And so I used to have this on a slide when I talked to folks, but you can look at like

1249
01:22:31,800 --> 01:22:37,440
Army doctrine, Marine Corps doctrine, like for priorities of work, security and all these

1250
01:22:37,440 --> 01:22:40,920
other things like way, way, way, way, way, way down at the bottom is rest.

1251
01:22:40,920 --> 01:22:44,560
Like way down like the last, that's the last priority.

1252
01:22:44,560 --> 01:22:46,960
Cleaning your weapon comes before rest.

1253
01:22:46,960 --> 01:22:51,560
Like I get it because if your weapons got dirt jammed in the muzzle, it's not gonna

1254
01:22:51,560 --> 01:22:52,560
work.

1255
01:22:52,560 --> 01:22:57,120
Equally so if you are like drooling on yourself tired, you're not going to work very well

1256
01:22:57,120 --> 01:22:58,440
or work the weapon well.

1257
01:22:58,440 --> 01:23:04,160
Then like, when I was an Oakey guys would wander off into the jungle after a couple

1258
01:23:04,160 --> 01:23:07,680
nights of patrol because no one had slept.

1259
01:23:07,680 --> 01:23:08,680
And I was like, hey, where'd he go?

1260
01:23:08,680 --> 01:23:11,000
I was like, I can hear him stopping around.

1261
01:23:11,000 --> 01:23:12,520
Like, okay, time out.

1262
01:23:12,520 --> 01:23:17,240
Let's stop playing, you know, fairy tale military right now.

1263
01:23:17,240 --> 01:23:21,720
Turn all the lights on and go find this fucking guy because his life could be at risk.

1264
01:23:21,720 --> 01:23:23,680
Like he could fall out of cliff or get bit by a snake.

1265
01:23:23,680 --> 01:23:28,000
Like we can't just let him wander around naked in the jungle.

1266
01:23:28,000 --> 01:23:31,460
And you know, you could laugh because I laughed all the time.

1267
01:23:31,460 --> 01:23:33,640
But this is how we operate, man.

1268
01:23:33,640 --> 01:23:38,320
And everyone thought it was just the price we paid for doing the job.

1269
01:23:38,320 --> 01:23:46,400
And man, like resilience does not mean setting unrealistic goals and absorbing the damage

1270
01:23:46,400 --> 01:23:48,760
at any cost.

1271
01:23:48,760 --> 01:23:51,640
And sadly, that's what a lot of the folks in uniform thought about it.

1272
01:23:51,640 --> 01:23:53,240
This is just the price of doing the job.

1273
01:23:53,240 --> 01:23:57,880
Like I'm old and I'm tired before my time because that's what I signed up to do.

1274
01:23:57,880 --> 01:23:59,640
Like it's not not how it works, man.

1275
01:23:59,640 --> 01:24:06,620
Like some of the most fit people in the service are the people at these higher echelon units.

1276
01:24:06,620 --> 01:24:11,360
And they're operating well into their 40s because they are being very well taken care

1277
01:24:11,360 --> 01:24:12,360
of.

1278
01:24:12,360 --> 01:24:17,800
You know, and everyone else in all of these services who are not is like, oh, man, I'm

1279
01:24:17,800 --> 01:24:19,160
36 and I creek when I walk.

1280
01:24:19,160 --> 01:24:20,160
Like I look like I'm old.

1281
01:24:20,160 --> 01:24:21,160
I sound like I'm old.

1282
01:24:21,160 --> 01:24:22,160
I feel like I'm old.

1283
01:24:22,160 --> 01:24:25,080
Like, yeah, you do because you haven't slept well.

1284
01:24:25,080 --> 01:24:28,600
Like you are so far like chronic sleep restriction.

1285
01:24:28,600 --> 01:24:33,000
Like your hormones are turning on and off in ways that they should not be turning on

1286
01:24:33,000 --> 01:24:34,400
and off.

1287
01:24:34,400 --> 01:24:38,560
Like disco lights instead of the lights in your house.

1288
01:24:38,560 --> 01:24:41,320
And it just it comes down to like, man, I'm tired.

1289
01:24:41,320 --> 01:24:43,400
So let me have some caffeine.

1290
01:24:43,400 --> 01:24:47,080
And then I normally berate people for like 45 minutes about all the terrible things caffeine

1291
01:24:47,080 --> 01:24:50,200
does to you and for you.

1292
01:24:50,200 --> 01:24:53,400
And then some of them threaten me with bodily harm and physical violence.

1293
01:24:53,400 --> 01:24:56,760
But I mean, dude, we are fueled by caffeine.

1294
01:24:56,760 --> 01:24:59,040
We are sedated by alcohol.

1295
01:24:59,040 --> 01:25:08,240
We are inundated with crappy food and stimulation and toxic information everywhere we look like

1296
01:25:08,240 --> 01:25:14,320
I. My heart sincerely goes out to all of the folks in uniform time now.

1297
01:25:14,320 --> 01:25:15,320
Right.

1298
01:25:15,320 --> 01:25:19,600
Like as a Marine, like every good Marine shit, I complained every day I was in uniform.

1299
01:25:19,600 --> 01:25:20,800
Sometimes I didn't know what I was complaining about.

1300
01:25:20,800 --> 01:25:24,680
But, you know, we'd sit around and solve the Marine Corps problems and, you know, say all

1301
01:25:24,680 --> 01:25:27,720
the things that were fucked up from the floor up with headquarters Marine Corps and how

1302
01:25:27,720 --> 01:25:29,720
they were running the show.

1303
01:25:29,720 --> 01:25:30,720
Right.

1304
01:25:30,720 --> 01:25:35,120
Yet and still, I had more resources at my fingertips.

1305
01:25:35,120 --> 01:25:38,240
Some of them I didn't even know about.

1306
01:25:38,240 --> 01:25:41,080
Most of them I didn't know how to use because, you know, it's too busy chest thumping.

1307
01:25:41,080 --> 01:25:43,280
I don't need that shit.

1308
01:25:43,280 --> 01:25:49,000
But more resources at my fingertips than anyone in the first responder community.

1309
01:25:49,000 --> 01:25:55,800
Even now as a retiree, I have many more resources available to me than anyone behind a badge

1310
01:25:55,800 --> 01:25:58,320
or under a fire helmet.

1311
01:25:58,320 --> 01:26:00,320
And that's a travesty, dude.

1312
01:26:00,320 --> 01:26:04,360
Like that is a no shit travesty.

1313
01:26:04,360 --> 01:26:07,440
Independent of how I feel about the military and whether it's a welfare system or not,

1314
01:26:07,440 --> 01:26:09,760
it is.

1315
01:26:09,760 --> 01:26:13,640
You sign up, you generally know when you're going to get deployed.

1316
01:26:13,640 --> 01:26:16,880
In time of war, you generally know when you're going to get shot at.

1317
01:26:16,880 --> 01:26:21,040
And you can plan routes to go get shot at or to try to not get shot at.

1318
01:26:21,040 --> 01:26:27,080
But for most of the folks in a military uniform, the area under the curve of exposure to danger

1319
01:26:27,080 --> 01:26:35,120
is much smaller than anyone who wears a badge or a firefighter helmet.

1320
01:26:35,120 --> 01:26:39,920
And when you think about what we're doing, we are off in foreign lands protecting America's

1321
01:26:39,920 --> 01:26:42,360
freedom?

1322
01:26:42,360 --> 01:26:43,720
Question mark.

1323
01:26:43,720 --> 01:26:44,720
Great.

1324
01:26:44,720 --> 01:26:51,000
The people at home, the first responders at home are protecting our communities.

1325
01:26:51,000 --> 01:26:52,560
They're keeping our families safe.

1326
01:26:52,560 --> 01:26:57,560
And they do it day after week, after month, after year, after decade.

1327
01:26:57,560 --> 01:27:03,760
And they've got such a small sliver of support, like a blip on the fucking radar.

1328
01:27:03,760 --> 01:27:06,560
It burns me up inside, man.

1329
01:27:06,560 --> 01:27:12,400
Because like, you know, you look at statistics and the first rule of statistics is 70% of

1330
01:27:12,400 --> 01:27:14,440
them are invented on the spot.

1331
01:27:14,440 --> 01:27:22,560
But the epidemiology of death for someone who is in first responder community, man,

1332
01:27:22,560 --> 01:27:28,280
between firefighting and police officers, it's like five years post retirement is this

1333
01:27:28,280 --> 01:27:30,560
weird magic number.

1334
01:27:30,560 --> 01:27:32,760
And then you're dead.

1335
01:27:32,760 --> 01:27:35,120
Like are you kidding me right now?

1336
01:27:35,120 --> 01:27:38,600
Like five years after I retire, I'm going to die.

1337
01:27:38,600 --> 01:27:43,880
Either self-induced, my body finally shuts down, or all the things that were wrong with

1338
01:27:43,880 --> 01:27:49,040
me caught up with me, or I've lost my tribe and my will to live and my identity.

1339
01:27:49,040 --> 01:27:53,960
But five years doesn't seem like a great long time after 20, 30 years of selfless sacrifice

1340
01:27:53,960 --> 01:27:56,520
and service to your community.

1341
01:27:56,520 --> 01:27:59,800
Five years doesn't seem like enough to enjoy your family and your kids, maybe your kids'

1342
01:27:59,800 --> 01:28:04,200
kids or go fishing or just sit on your porch and do nothing.

1343
01:28:04,200 --> 01:28:06,040
And that's terrible.

1344
01:28:06,040 --> 01:28:08,240
That's just unacceptable, man.

1345
01:28:08,240 --> 01:28:11,800
Sorry, I don't know where that came from.

1346
01:28:11,800 --> 01:28:13,800
No, no, trust me.

1347
01:28:13,800 --> 01:28:17,440
Just you again preaching to the choir, but it needs to be said, and this is what's so

1348
01:28:17,440 --> 01:28:19,440
interesting when I interview everyone else.

1349
01:28:19,440 --> 01:28:23,760
I can interview another firefighter and we'll just be like you in the Marines, be in your

1350
01:28:23,760 --> 01:28:24,760
chairs.

1351
01:28:24,760 --> 01:28:25,760
This is what leadership is doing wrong.

1352
01:28:25,760 --> 01:28:28,640
I use that term very, very loosely.

1353
01:28:28,640 --> 01:28:34,080
But when it's someone coming from another high performing tactical athlete profession

1354
01:28:34,080 --> 01:28:38,800
from the outside looking in, and that's why it's so interesting talking to DevGru guys,

1355
01:28:38,800 --> 01:28:40,620
because they have all the resources.

1356
01:28:40,620 --> 01:28:45,560
They go to the human performance organizations and test the latest supplements and equipment

1357
01:28:45,560 --> 01:28:49,320
and strength and conditioning techniques and rehab techniques.

1358
01:28:49,320 --> 01:28:56,440
And so they have organizations that are forging elite performance out of their own group.

1359
01:28:56,440 --> 01:28:59,720
And then obviously that filters down to the rest of the SEAL teams.

1360
01:28:59,720 --> 01:29:01,640
But in the fire service, we don't have that.

1361
01:29:01,640 --> 01:29:06,280
And this is the problem is that we're talking about disease management.

1362
01:29:06,280 --> 01:29:10,260
That's not even addressing the how do we forge performance as a firefighter?

1363
01:29:10,260 --> 01:29:14,360
How do we make that firefighter be able to take that gear, 100 pounds of gear, high rise

1364
01:29:14,360 --> 01:29:19,280
strip, 20 floors up and have the strength and endurance to then go to work?

1365
01:29:19,280 --> 01:29:23,720
Because just you guys walk vertically, we walk horizontally.

1366
01:29:23,720 --> 01:29:27,120
You guys walk somewhat horizontally, we walk vertically.

1367
01:29:27,120 --> 01:29:30,360
Most of the places that we have to walk to are up unless you're in the wildland community.

1368
01:29:30,360 --> 01:29:33,480
And even then they're navigating mountains.

1369
01:29:33,480 --> 01:29:35,480
But we haven't done anything yet.

1370
01:29:35,480 --> 01:29:40,220
We've just got to the place and then we have to deploy hose and do searches and drag victims

1371
01:29:40,220 --> 01:29:44,660
out and pull ceiling and do all the things, which is very physical in gear that won't

1372
01:29:44,660 --> 01:29:46,700
let us offload heat.

1373
01:29:46,700 --> 01:29:52,060
So just as kind of like the final chapter of this particular conversation, talk to me

1374
01:29:52,060 --> 01:29:56,040
about the human performance side now.

1375
01:29:56,040 --> 01:30:00,560
What should an environment look like so we can give the police officers, the firefighters,

1376
01:30:00,560 --> 01:30:05,120
the paramedics, I mean, even the dispatchers, I mean, that's a different kind of performance,

1377
01:30:05,120 --> 01:30:11,800
the health, especially the tactical athletes, the ability to forge the most performance

1378
01:30:11,800 --> 01:30:17,080
when we literally, as you said, go from a dead sleep sometimes to, as I have many times,

1379
01:30:17,080 --> 01:30:22,080
standing on a fucking three story apartment building roof with a chainsaw on my hand and

1380
01:30:22,080 --> 01:30:27,720
fire blowing out literally 10 minutes after I woke up from a dead sleep.

1381
01:30:27,720 --> 01:30:29,280
Yeah, man.

1382
01:30:29,280 --> 01:30:36,600
I think any environment that caters to health, wellness, fitness, the things that fall under

1383
01:30:36,600 --> 01:30:42,920
the umbrella of human performance, that environment has to be conducive to sleep.

1384
01:30:42,920 --> 01:30:46,320
It has to be supportive of sleep.

1385
01:30:46,320 --> 01:30:47,720
And I get it.

1386
01:30:47,720 --> 01:30:51,760
You work in a profession where you have no idea what your sleep schedule is going to

1387
01:30:51,760 --> 01:30:56,320
be like a certain amount of time every week or every month.

1388
01:30:56,320 --> 01:30:57,320
Okay.

1389
01:30:57,320 --> 01:30:59,680
So there's some strong science.

1390
01:30:59,680 --> 01:31:03,680
Again, Allison's talked about this a bunch.

1391
01:31:03,680 --> 01:31:08,160
If you can maintain your circadian rhythm, you're onto something.

1392
01:31:08,160 --> 01:31:13,780
So get up generally at the same time, go to bed generally at the same time, view light

1393
01:31:13,780 --> 01:31:19,360
at the same time, exercise at the same time, eat your meals generally at the same time.

1394
01:31:19,360 --> 01:31:25,480
These are hormonal and photic, so light-based things that will help keep your circadian

1395
01:31:25,480 --> 01:31:31,120
rhythm as steady as it can be in this chaotic environment.

1396
01:31:31,120 --> 01:31:33,640
How do you combat feeling tired?

1397
01:31:33,640 --> 01:31:35,120
You do not caffeinate.

1398
01:31:35,120 --> 01:31:39,160
You take a nap strategically in the same way that you would caffeinate.

1399
01:31:39,160 --> 01:31:43,120
I know I get up at six and I'm super tired at 10.

1400
01:31:43,120 --> 01:31:47,480
Instead of having another cup of coffee, I'm going to have a nap.

1401
01:31:47,480 --> 01:31:52,200
Like that fat comedian, John Panett, ravioli and a nap, only minus the ravioli.

1402
01:31:52,200 --> 01:31:53,200
Take a nap.

1403
01:31:53,200 --> 01:31:55,360
If the one didn't do it, try to.

1404
01:31:55,360 --> 01:31:57,960
If the two didn't do it, you can squeeze in the third one and nap.

1405
01:31:57,960 --> 01:31:59,960
A nap, not a coma.

1406
01:31:59,960 --> 01:32:01,360
20 to 30 minutes.

1407
01:32:01,360 --> 01:32:07,120
This is where the science strongly suggests 20 to 30 minutes as a nap.

1408
01:32:07,120 --> 01:32:14,280
Because every firefighter I have talked to, to an individual, man, woman, rookie or senior,

1409
01:32:14,280 --> 01:32:16,920
everyone I have talked to, I ask them to prove me wrong.

1410
01:32:16,920 --> 01:32:21,760
I say, okay, you go home, whether it's a 48-hour shift or a 72-hour overtime mandatory, it

1411
01:32:21,760 --> 01:32:27,560
doesn't matter, and you sit down and you either took a two or three hour nap or your body

1412
01:32:27,560 --> 01:32:31,520
forced you into a two or three hour nap.

1413
01:32:31,520 --> 01:32:34,240
Did you feel better after that nap?

1414
01:32:34,240 --> 01:32:37,800
Not one of them has been able to tell me they felt better.

1415
01:32:37,800 --> 01:32:40,440
To an individual, they're like, I feel worse.

1416
01:32:40,440 --> 01:32:41,440
I feel garbagey.

1417
01:32:41,440 --> 01:32:44,480
That's not a nap, that's a sleep.

1418
01:32:44,480 --> 01:32:45,780
It's not a great sleep.

1419
01:32:45,780 --> 01:32:50,080
It's kind of like a coma and it's not enough to get you the restorative sleep that you

1420
01:32:50,080 --> 01:32:51,540
need every night.

1421
01:32:51,540 --> 01:32:56,640
Take that 20 to 30 minute nap.

1422
01:32:56,640 --> 01:33:00,080
Any performance environment has to cater to sleep.

1423
01:33:00,080 --> 01:33:06,360
I would say kind of tied for number two are stress and nutrition.

1424
01:33:06,360 --> 01:33:10,320
We have to talk about proper nutrition.

1425
01:33:10,320 --> 01:33:14,440
Protein is always a huge requirement for folks with a high physicality.

1426
01:33:14,440 --> 01:33:16,920
Most folks aren't getting enough of it.

1427
01:33:16,920 --> 01:33:20,180
People start getting into caloric deficits and then they don't understand the hormonal

1428
01:33:20,180 --> 01:33:24,120
complications of being in a caloric deficit for a long time.

1429
01:33:24,120 --> 01:33:28,880
Really the thing that's burning most of the calories that your body needs is the muscle.

1430
01:33:28,880 --> 01:33:32,680
When you're in a caloric deficit, your body's like, hey, I need to survive.

1431
01:33:32,680 --> 01:33:33,680
How do I survive?

1432
01:33:33,680 --> 01:33:35,120
Well, I got to cut down on my bills.

1433
01:33:35,120 --> 01:33:37,480
The easiest way to do that is just get rid of muscle.

1434
01:33:37,480 --> 01:33:40,920
Yeah, maybe you're losing a couple pounds, but a lot of it's muscle.

1435
01:33:40,920 --> 01:33:43,000
Muscle is a parking space for glucose.

1436
01:33:43,000 --> 01:33:45,040
Muscle is metabolically active.

1437
01:33:45,040 --> 01:33:48,480
It's one of the highest correlates to longevity right now.

1438
01:33:48,480 --> 01:33:49,480
Muscle mass and strength.

1439
01:33:49,480 --> 01:33:50,480
There's a finite point.

1440
01:33:50,480 --> 01:33:53,520
I'm not saying that bodybuilders are living the longest or having the greatest lives.

1441
01:33:53,520 --> 01:33:58,040
They got their own problems, but enough muscle mass to be active.

1442
01:33:58,040 --> 01:34:01,520
This has implications for later on in life.

1443
01:34:01,520 --> 01:34:04,600
Dietary considerations are important, but stress, equally so.

1444
01:34:04,600 --> 01:34:09,840
Stress is important because if you sleep well, well, if you sleep well, your stress is probably

1445
01:34:09,840 --> 01:34:10,840
low.

1446
01:34:10,840 --> 01:34:14,280
If we're giving you the opportunity to sleep well and your stress is high, there's some

1447
01:34:14,280 --> 01:34:17,240
hormonal complications there as well.

1448
01:34:17,240 --> 01:34:20,400
That can have negative effects on muscle mass and fat mass.

1449
01:34:20,400 --> 01:34:23,480
That can have negative effects on mood and respiratory rate.

1450
01:34:23,480 --> 01:34:25,600
Here's an interesting fact.

1451
01:34:25,600 --> 01:34:28,040
Like Catholics, respiratory rate and heart rate are tied together.

1452
01:34:28,040 --> 01:34:29,040
No chance of divorce.

1453
01:34:29,040 --> 01:34:30,360
One goes up, the other one goes up.

1454
01:34:30,360 --> 01:34:31,360
It just happens.

1455
01:34:31,360 --> 01:34:35,800
We could do an experiment here, but anyone could prove it at any time.

1456
01:34:35,800 --> 01:34:39,640
If you have poor posture, there's a strong chance you're breathing poorly.

1457
01:34:39,640 --> 01:34:43,840
If you're breathing poorly, there's a strong chance that your heart rate has gone up.

1458
01:34:43,840 --> 01:34:48,120
If you have a certain level of fitness and you've only got so many BPMs before you feel

1459
01:34:48,120 --> 01:34:53,480
like you're starting to redline, we've just decreased the space you have to work because

1460
01:34:53,480 --> 01:34:57,360
you're breathing poorly and now your heart rate's higher than it should be.

1461
01:34:57,360 --> 01:35:02,200
Now instead of, let's say, your heart rate hovering at a nice, very highly trained 50

1462
01:35:02,200 --> 01:35:09,720
to 60 BPMs, you're around 70 to 80, maybe 90 BPMs.

1463
01:35:09,720 --> 01:35:12,320
You feel like you're starting to redline on 150.

1464
01:35:12,320 --> 01:35:17,720
Well, I just took 30 away from you, 30 of those points on the same scale because you

1465
01:35:17,720 --> 01:35:19,720
breathe like shit.

1466
01:35:19,720 --> 01:35:21,360
Posture and breathing are tied together.

1467
01:35:21,360 --> 01:35:23,400
So if your back hurts, if your neck hurts.

1468
01:35:23,400 --> 01:35:27,520
Man, I used to make fun of this Looney Tunes cartoon.

1469
01:35:27,520 --> 01:35:32,560
It's this goofy ass vulture who's bringing home a baby bumblebee, right?

1470
01:35:32,560 --> 01:35:38,100
And his head is so far in front of his neck and it's just, it's comical, right?

1471
01:35:38,100 --> 01:35:42,080
It's like, there's no way that could ever, and now look around, look around at people,

1472
01:35:42,080 --> 01:35:46,480
and they are so kyphotic, their shoulders are in front of their hips and their head

1473
01:35:46,480 --> 01:35:47,480
is in front of their shoulders.

1474
01:35:47,480 --> 01:35:50,480
Even young kids, which is heartbreaking.

1475
01:35:50,480 --> 01:35:56,560
Dude, it is, I used to wonder, like, if you just sat around and read a book, like, you

1476
01:35:56,560 --> 01:36:00,000
know, Edgar Allen Poe, like what was his posture like?

1477
01:36:00,000 --> 01:36:01,000
I don't know.

1478
01:36:01,000 --> 01:36:03,960
I mean, that dude still had to go out and chop wood and do other stuff, but look at

1479
01:36:03,960 --> 01:36:09,960
around at people now, man, if you know anything about kinesiology and like proper pain-free

1480
01:36:09,960 --> 01:36:16,360
authentic bio-mechanical movement, and you look around at children right now, like, it's

1481
01:36:16,360 --> 01:36:17,360
terrifying, man.

1482
01:36:17,360 --> 01:36:18,360
They move poorly.

1483
01:36:18,360 --> 01:36:21,440
And we've been doing this for years.

1484
01:36:21,440 --> 01:36:24,560
So like this whole movement thing is tied to posture, which is tied to breathing, which

1485
01:36:24,560 --> 01:36:26,040
is tied to movement.

1486
01:36:26,040 --> 01:36:28,720
If you move like shit and you have bad posture, you're going to breathe poorly.

1487
01:36:28,720 --> 01:36:31,240
Well, if you breathe poorly, there's a strong chance you're going to have bad posture and

1488
01:36:31,240 --> 01:36:32,480
move like shit.

1489
01:36:32,480 --> 01:36:36,400
So if you hurt, you have things that hurt, like my lower back always hurts, my hip always

1490
01:36:36,400 --> 01:36:42,000
hurts, my knee, my shoulder, my elbow, like, we need to talk about how you move.

1491
01:36:42,000 --> 01:36:45,120
And before we get there, we need to talk about how you breathe.

1492
01:36:45,120 --> 01:36:47,920
Because if you're not breathing properly, you're inducing bad posture.

1493
01:36:47,920 --> 01:36:52,320
It almost doesn't matter what movement corrective I give you.

1494
01:36:52,320 --> 01:36:58,160
And again, this is just talking about stress, because stress will make you breathe poorly.

1495
01:36:58,160 --> 01:37:00,640
And there we go back down, posture and movement.

1496
01:37:00,640 --> 01:37:04,440
So tied for number two is stress and nutrition.

1497
01:37:04,440 --> 01:37:09,560
And then the third thing, the third thing would be physical fitness.

1498
01:37:09,560 --> 01:37:14,720
And man, there's so many people that could wax poetically about the type of physical

1499
01:37:14,720 --> 01:37:18,840
fitness you need for A, B or C job.

1500
01:37:18,840 --> 01:37:24,040
In reality sake, man, to make this a shorter conversation, you need enough.

1501
01:37:24,040 --> 01:37:25,640
And that's it.

1502
01:37:25,640 --> 01:37:29,080
Like how strong do you need to be to be a firefighter?

1503
01:37:29,080 --> 01:37:30,080
Strong enough.

1504
01:37:30,080 --> 01:37:33,960
Like, I don't think there's a bench press or deadlift requirement, but you need to be

1505
01:37:33,960 --> 01:37:36,760
able to pick your own ass up off the ground.

1506
01:37:36,760 --> 01:37:40,680
And then you generally need to be able to pick up half a human or a full human, half

1507
01:37:40,680 --> 01:37:42,360
a human if you've got some port.

1508
01:37:42,360 --> 01:37:44,960
And by the way, you got to do this with your gear.

1509
01:37:44,960 --> 01:37:50,000
So whatever that adds up to for you, the individual firefighter, there's your strength requirement,

1510
01:37:50,000 --> 01:37:51,320
your conditioning requirement.

1511
01:37:51,320 --> 01:37:54,360
Like I think the OPAAT is pretty cool.

1512
01:37:54,360 --> 01:37:57,720
But man, like is anyone actually doing that?

1513
01:37:57,720 --> 01:38:00,920
I feel like operations take way longer than five minutes.

1514
01:38:00,920 --> 01:38:05,440
I don't feel like you're doing all those things on every fire every time.

1515
01:38:05,440 --> 01:38:11,600
I feel like if you could do those things continuously for an hour without needing to sit down or

1516
01:38:11,600 --> 01:38:14,880
throw up, you're probably in a good spot.

1517
01:38:14,880 --> 01:38:22,080
And that speaks more to an aerobic base than this CrossFit like intensity of action.

1518
01:38:22,080 --> 01:38:24,060
And all recovery is aerobic, man.

1519
01:38:24,060 --> 01:38:28,480
Like whether it's in between sets, reps, or if you're stopping in between flights of stairs

1520
01:38:28,480 --> 01:38:32,680
or you're bending over to try to throw up, like all recovery is aerobic.

1521
01:38:32,680 --> 01:38:35,680
So a higher aerobic base is always a good thing.

1522
01:38:35,680 --> 01:38:36,680
And how much?

1523
01:38:36,680 --> 01:38:37,680
Man, enough.

1524
01:38:37,680 --> 01:38:43,320
Again, so anyone who's like, hey, I got the reps, I got the sets.

1525
01:38:43,320 --> 01:38:46,760
It's individualized for you, number one.

1526
01:38:46,760 --> 01:38:49,900
Number two, it's individualized for your job.

1527
01:38:49,900 --> 01:38:53,560
And number three, like it's almost impossible to know what level of fitness you need if

1528
01:38:53,560 --> 01:38:56,940
I don't know what level of fitness you're at.

1529
01:38:56,940 --> 01:39:04,400
So if I don't assess you, I'm kind of taking a stab in the dark with your programming.

1530
01:39:04,400 --> 01:39:10,040
And if I don't check in with your programming, I kind of don't know if it's even effective.

1531
01:39:10,040 --> 01:39:14,040
And we haven't talked about the rest of your life, no programming is effective.

1532
01:39:14,040 --> 01:39:17,280
So I could write you a 12-week hypertrophy program.

1533
01:39:17,280 --> 01:39:21,480
James, guaranteed, you're going to put on five pounds of muscle, make this V-Shred dude

1534
01:39:21,480 --> 01:39:24,880
look like a clown, and everyone will be great, right?

1535
01:39:24,880 --> 01:39:28,880
I don't ask about how much alcohol you drink, how your sleep is, what your family life is

1536
01:39:28,880 --> 01:39:29,880
like.

1537
01:39:29,880 --> 01:39:33,840
You didn't bother to tell me that you're a new parent, that your wife is also sick,

1538
01:39:33,840 --> 01:39:36,920
your parents had to move in, and you don't have enough time to cook dinner.

1539
01:39:36,920 --> 01:39:40,320
You barely sleep, so you drink yourself to sleep, and then in the morning you're tired,

1540
01:39:40,320 --> 01:39:41,320
so you caffeinate.

1541
01:39:41,320 --> 01:39:44,360
But I gave you this amazing program, and 12 weeks later we come back, and you're like,

1542
01:39:44,360 --> 01:39:46,240
yeah, actually, I hurt my shoulder and my elbow.

1543
01:39:46,240 --> 01:39:47,520
I'll put on two pounds of fat.

1544
01:39:47,520 --> 01:39:48,520
Science is stupid.

1545
01:39:48,520 --> 01:39:49,520
Fuck you, I want my money back.

1546
01:39:49,520 --> 01:39:54,200
It's like, okay, well, if we were to talk about all those other things, maybe we wouldn't

1547
01:39:54,200 --> 01:39:56,400
have come to this resolution.

1548
01:39:56,400 --> 01:40:04,080
So when we talk about performance, like sleep, number one, diet and stress, number two, and

1549
01:40:04,080 --> 01:40:06,920
then the physicality of it, number three.

1550
01:40:06,920 --> 01:40:11,200
Because without those in front of it, man, it's like, it almost doesn't matter what I

1551
01:40:11,200 --> 01:40:12,200
tell you.

1552
01:40:12,200 --> 01:40:13,720
Yeah, get up and go for a run, great.

1553
01:40:13,720 --> 01:40:14,840
Go walk the dog.

1554
01:40:14,840 --> 01:40:15,840
That's amazing.

1555
01:40:15,840 --> 01:40:19,120
Like, an active lifestyle is way better than an inactive lifestyle.

1556
01:40:19,120 --> 01:40:24,480
But if you're standing on the brakes trying to throw the car in reverse because of all

1557
01:40:24,480 --> 01:40:30,000
of these other lifestyle factors, there's not a whole lot I can do about that.

1558
01:40:30,000 --> 01:40:31,320
Absolutely.

1559
01:40:31,320 --> 01:40:32,480
You mentioned the naps.

1560
01:40:32,480 --> 01:40:33,760
I was the same thing.

1561
01:40:33,760 --> 01:40:38,120
I could never nap usually, but if I had one of those horrendous nights where, again, literally

1562
01:40:38,120 --> 01:40:41,800
zero sleep, I would sleep the next day and I'd feel terrible.

1563
01:40:41,800 --> 01:40:46,480
A tool, I think we've talked about this before, a tool that I've found amazing, absolutely

1564
01:40:46,480 --> 01:40:52,080
amazing is Newcom, the app, because it's putting you into these different states.

1565
01:40:52,080 --> 01:40:55,360
Again, I'm the opposite of confirmation bias.

1566
01:40:55,360 --> 01:41:00,160
Usually when I'm trying something and I'm old school, sunlight, ocean, dirt, that's

1567
01:41:00,160 --> 01:41:01,800
my truth.

1568
01:41:01,800 --> 01:41:05,240
When someone's biohacking air quotes, I'm usually going into this and go, and this is

1569
01:41:05,240 --> 01:41:07,360
going to probably be bullshit.

1570
01:41:07,360 --> 01:41:08,960
But my God, does that work?

1571
01:41:08,960 --> 01:41:09,960
It's so good.

1572
01:41:09,960 --> 01:41:11,760
That's what I've talked about a lot.

1573
01:41:11,760 --> 01:41:16,680
You are a firefighter, a cop, a dispatcher, and you do live an hour, two, three hours away.

1574
01:41:16,680 --> 01:41:23,840
Or even if you don't, take 20 minutes, do their rescue or their power nap, and it's

1575
01:41:23,840 --> 01:41:24,840
incredible.

1576
01:41:24,840 --> 01:41:29,700
You feel like you had a couple of hours of actual sleep and it's down regulating your

1577
01:41:29,700 --> 01:41:30,700
nervous system.

1578
01:41:30,700 --> 01:41:35,080
So you did God knows what, the middle of the night, whether it was some horrible call or

1579
01:41:35,080 --> 01:41:39,880
just four bullshit calls that made you want to choke people or the chief was an asshole

1580
01:41:39,880 --> 01:41:42,200
five minutes before you walk out the door.

1581
01:41:42,200 --> 01:41:45,240
Now you get to punctuate that shift.

1582
01:41:45,240 --> 01:41:49,720
And so that when you walk through as husband, father, mother, whatever role you're going

1583
01:41:49,720 --> 01:41:52,880
to play, you've been able to step back down again.

1584
01:41:52,880 --> 01:41:54,720
So I can't speak highly enough.

1585
01:41:54,720 --> 01:41:56,720
N-U-C-A-L-M for people listening.

1586
01:41:56,720 --> 01:41:57,960
It's an app now.

1587
01:41:57,960 --> 01:41:58,960
Truly amazing.

1588
01:41:58,960 --> 01:42:00,960
That's awesome, man.

1589
01:42:00,960 --> 01:42:02,680
It sounds like an amazing resource.

1590
01:42:02,680 --> 01:42:03,680
Yeah.

1591
01:42:03,680 --> 01:42:04,680
All right, mate.

1592
01:42:04,680 --> 01:42:07,160
Well, I want to hit one more area and then want to be mindful of your time and let you

1593
01:42:07,160 --> 01:42:08,160
go.

1594
01:42:08,160 --> 01:42:11,800
I had Craig Weller on a couple of weeks ago talking about building the elite and I know

1595
01:42:11,800 --> 01:42:13,320
you're part of their team now.

1596
01:42:13,320 --> 01:42:16,160
So talk to me about that role.

1597
01:42:16,160 --> 01:42:17,160
Yeah.

1598
01:42:17,160 --> 01:42:25,240
They hired me on as a full-time coach and man, I can't say enough good things about

1599
01:42:25,240 --> 01:42:26,840
John and Craig.

1600
01:42:26,840 --> 01:42:34,520
So as I was transitioning out of a job last year that sent me on my merry way due to irreconcilable

1601
01:42:34,520 --> 01:42:40,760
differences, I was looking through my inbox, man, and I don't know how or when, but I was

1602
01:42:40,760 --> 01:42:46,680
getting these Navy SEAL performance emails kind of rolling my eyes like, oh, great, more

1603
01:42:46,680 --> 01:42:47,680
SEAL stuff.

1604
01:42:47,680 --> 01:42:48,680
I don't care.

1605
01:42:48,680 --> 01:42:49,680
I'm a recombinant.

1606
01:42:49,680 --> 01:42:50,680
I don't need this.

1607
01:42:50,680 --> 01:42:59,000
But I checked out the website because I was kind of scrambling to get a job and I introduced

1608
01:42:59,000 --> 01:43:00,800
myself as, hey, man, are you guys looking for a coach?

1609
01:43:00,800 --> 01:43:02,320
Here's who I am and here's what I know.

1610
01:43:02,320 --> 01:43:05,840
And they interviewed me and they're like, well, here's the book.

1611
01:43:05,840 --> 01:43:09,440
Read the book and then let us know what you think.

1612
01:43:09,440 --> 01:43:16,860
Man, I was blown away with how well put together the book was.

1613
01:43:16,860 --> 01:43:19,280
It covers a broad range of things.

1614
01:43:19,280 --> 01:43:27,400
When you think about building someone who's an elite level anything, most people would

1615
01:43:27,400 --> 01:43:34,160
have this preconceived notion that it's like all sets and reps.

1616
01:43:34,160 --> 01:43:41,160
And man, like a large portion of that book is about what a performance model would look

1617
01:43:41,160 --> 01:43:47,120
like and how you individualize that and all the mental skills training that goes into

1618
01:43:47,120 --> 01:43:51,200
being able to thrive in a chaotic environment.

1619
01:43:51,200 --> 01:43:56,440
And actually, dude, I think it was on the way to Florida last year and I read like the

1620
01:43:56,440 --> 01:43:58,040
first half of that book on the plane.

1621
01:43:58,040 --> 01:43:59,040
Oh, really?

1622
01:43:59,040 --> 01:44:00,040
And I texted.

1623
01:44:00,040 --> 01:44:01,040
Yeah.

1624
01:44:01,040 --> 01:44:02,040
And I texted.

1625
01:44:02,040 --> 01:44:03,040
I was like, God damn, this is a really good book.

1626
01:44:03,040 --> 01:44:04,040
Like I'm not often.

1627
01:44:04,040 --> 01:44:05,040
It is amazing.

1628
01:44:05,040 --> 01:44:06,040
Yeah.

1629
01:44:06,040 --> 01:44:10,760
So the more I read and the more I got to know what they were doing, the more I was like,

1630
01:44:10,760 --> 01:44:11,760
you know, because I'm an asshole.

1631
01:44:11,760 --> 01:44:15,560
I was like, how can I use this for my own nefarious deeds?

1632
01:44:15,560 --> 01:44:19,520
You know, and they let me be a coach.

1633
01:44:19,520 --> 01:44:26,160
And part of the thing that I enjoy about it, it is not just a, hey, follow this program,

1634
01:44:26,160 --> 01:44:30,200
because all the things that I just said, but it is very much a, hey, how do we make you

1635
01:44:30,200 --> 01:44:31,240
a better human?

1636
01:44:31,240 --> 01:44:33,840
How can we help you on your journey?

1637
01:44:33,840 --> 01:44:35,480
Whatever that is.

1638
01:44:35,480 --> 01:44:38,800
And it's not just for people looking to get into SEAL training.

1639
01:44:38,800 --> 01:44:46,360
Like we have clients who are trying to select into soft or soft like units across the world.

1640
01:44:46,360 --> 01:44:52,000
Like literally, we got folks, German SWAT teams, Austrian SWAT teams, Estonian Special

1641
01:44:52,000 --> 01:44:58,280
Forces, Australian Special Forces, all manner of jobs in the United States of America.

1642
01:44:58,280 --> 01:45:03,920
Even a couple of stay at home folks who are just regular civilians looking to get healthier

1643
01:45:03,920 --> 01:45:05,400
and better.

1644
01:45:05,400 --> 01:45:10,400
And we teach them about the mental skills needed to get through chaotic situations.

1645
01:45:10,400 --> 01:45:13,400
We teach them about self-regulation, self-compassion.

1646
01:45:13,400 --> 01:45:22,440
Like it is an amazing opportunity to talk to people about how to be a better human.

1647
01:45:22,440 --> 01:45:29,280
And the thing that I like about it, one of the things that I like about it is that a

1648
01:45:29,280 --> 01:45:33,840
lot of the folks are starting their career.

1649
01:45:33,840 --> 01:45:35,440
So they're at inception, right?

1650
01:45:35,440 --> 01:45:41,040
They're either civilian looking to get in on a special forces contract, or they're in

1651
01:45:41,040 --> 01:45:46,400
their first couple of years in uniform trying to select into the specialized unit.

1652
01:45:46,400 --> 01:45:51,200
And we've got an opportunity to help give them tools to succeed and be successful for

1653
01:45:51,200 --> 01:45:55,720
the rest of their career now at the beginning.

1654
01:45:55,720 --> 01:46:00,680
And I think that's something that we've missed as a community, like the tactical community.

1655
01:46:00,680 --> 01:46:03,200
We've missed that over the last couple of decades, right?

1656
01:46:03,200 --> 01:46:09,160
Like these are normally the hard-won skills that the men and women who have stuck around

1657
01:46:09,160 --> 01:46:12,000
for a long time have figured out.

1658
01:46:12,000 --> 01:46:14,840
And even then, to be brutally honest, maybe a lot of them haven't figured it out.

1659
01:46:14,840 --> 01:46:17,720
They're just doing a great job of masking all the signs and symptoms of someone who

1660
01:46:17,720 --> 01:46:20,840
is struggling for help, right?

1661
01:46:20,840 --> 01:46:28,240
So now, instead of waiting, instead of being the reactive culture that we are, there's

1662
01:46:28,240 --> 01:46:35,360
a chance to be proactive and to engage with the clients in a way that will help them stay

1663
01:46:35,360 --> 01:46:42,960
ahead of most of the things that go wrong with people who work in high-op tempos.

1664
01:46:42,960 --> 01:46:45,520
How do we keep you injury-free?

1665
01:46:45,520 --> 01:46:48,640
How do we make sure you know how important sleep is?

1666
01:46:48,640 --> 01:46:52,280
How do we help you manage stress?

1667
01:46:52,280 --> 01:46:56,640
Because even if you are a physical specimen, like straight-up mutant, if you can't handle

1668
01:46:56,640 --> 01:46:59,880
stress, you won't make it through selection, hard stuff.

1669
01:46:59,880 --> 01:47:03,960
Let's just say you squeak through selection, like stressed out, maximum, like barely made

1670
01:47:03,960 --> 01:47:06,320
it, but you made it, congratulations.

1671
01:47:06,320 --> 01:47:13,640
How are you going to handle the schooling, the op tempo, the deployments?

1672
01:47:13,640 --> 01:47:18,440
You may not last very long if you can't handle stress, if you can't manage stress, if you

1673
01:47:18,440 --> 01:47:23,760
don't know how to segment or compartmentalize, or you don't have any positive, healthy self-talk.

1674
01:47:23,760 --> 01:47:28,640
These are all the things that we can teach the clients at the very beginning.

1675
01:47:28,640 --> 01:47:32,560
And it's great because it's an ability to meet them kind of where they are around the

1676
01:47:32,560 --> 01:47:40,400
world and just offer a helping hand in a way that's bigger and broader than I thought I

1677
01:47:40,400 --> 01:47:42,800
would ever be able to be a part of.

1678
01:47:42,800 --> 01:47:43,800
Beautiful.

1679
01:47:43,800 --> 01:47:48,120
Yeah, the book I was blown away because obviously, you know, 50 years old and being in strength

1680
01:47:48,120 --> 01:47:51,680
and conditioning most of my life, never as a full-time coach, you know, weekend warrior

1681
01:47:51,680 --> 01:47:54,360
at best, but exercise physiology grad as well.

1682
01:47:54,360 --> 01:47:59,440
You know, you're aware of what good information looks like, especially evolving information

1683
01:47:59,440 --> 01:48:02,920
that isn't still repeating the same shit from decades ago.

1684
01:48:02,920 --> 01:48:06,200
And I was so impressed, like you said, that holistic approach.

1685
01:48:06,200 --> 01:48:10,520
You're forging an elite tactical athlete, but it's the whole human approach.

1686
01:48:10,520 --> 01:48:13,840
It's not like you said, oh, you just need to follow my program and you too can be in

1687
01:48:13,840 --> 01:48:16,760
Bud's, you know, class 2001.

1688
01:48:16,760 --> 01:48:19,040
Yeah, yeah, man.

1689
01:48:19,040 --> 01:48:20,240
It's definitely pretty cool.

1690
01:48:20,240 --> 01:48:25,080
And I am extremely thankful to those two fine gentlemen for giving me the opportunity to

1691
01:48:25,080 --> 01:48:26,560
be a part of that.

1692
01:48:26,560 --> 01:48:30,800
Well, we could talk for another two hours, but I want to be mindful of your time.

1693
01:48:30,800 --> 01:48:34,580
So I know that you're not, you know, huge online, you know, deliberately.

1694
01:48:34,580 --> 01:48:38,760
So if people do want to reach out to you and learn more, where are the best places to find

1695
01:48:38,760 --> 01:48:39,760
you?

1696
01:48:39,760 --> 01:48:40,760
Man, nowhere.

1697
01:48:40,760 --> 01:48:46,040
I don't have much of an online presence.

1698
01:48:46,040 --> 01:48:51,080
So my struggling small business has a website, but I don't know if anyone's ever been there.

1699
01:48:51,080 --> 01:48:55,880
I'm also too lazy to figure out how to do a check if people have visited the site anyway.

1700
01:48:55,880 --> 01:48:59,680
I want to say LinkedIn, but I don't know if I'm using it right.

1701
01:48:59,680 --> 01:49:04,880
Because every time someone reaches out, I'll reply like, hey, man, what's up?

1702
01:49:04,880 --> 01:49:05,880
What can I do for you?

1703
01:49:05,880 --> 01:49:07,520
Or, hey, ma'am, how can I help you?

1704
01:49:07,520 --> 01:49:08,720
And then nothing.

1705
01:49:08,720 --> 01:49:11,360
So I don't I don't know if I'm using LinkedIn the right way.

1706
01:49:11,360 --> 01:49:12,360
You probably are.

1707
01:49:12,360 --> 01:49:16,900
That seems to be a generational thing like the unanswered text and email.

1708
01:49:16,900 --> 01:49:18,160
And this isn't just young people.

1709
01:49:18,160 --> 01:49:20,680
It just seems to be a socially acceptable thing now.

1710
01:49:20,680 --> 01:49:23,120
And I don't understand where the fuck that that came from.

1711
01:49:23,120 --> 01:49:24,760
But yeah, I'll have people that reach out.

1712
01:49:24,760 --> 01:49:26,840
I'll reply and then and then nothing.

1713
01:49:26,840 --> 01:49:30,120
I'm like, well, then why did you why did you message me?

1714
01:49:30,120 --> 01:49:31,960
You know, so yeah, I don't think it's you.

1715
01:49:31,960 --> 01:49:34,560
I think it's it's society in general.

1716
01:49:34,560 --> 01:49:35,560
Hmm.

1717
01:49:35,560 --> 01:49:36,760
Could be.

1718
01:49:36,760 --> 01:49:45,440
So yeah, I guess LinkedIn, Miguel's Iran or man, come and find me in building the elite.

1719
01:49:45,440 --> 01:49:51,640
And doesn't matter where you are in your career, whether you're a slimy civilian, pre or post

1720
01:49:51,640 --> 01:49:57,920
service or you're a firefighter, police officer.

1721
01:49:57,920 --> 01:49:59,880
We've got something for you.

1722
01:49:59,880 --> 01:50:05,120
And if you do want to focus on the programming, it's scalable to the individual.

1723
01:50:05,120 --> 01:50:08,680
It's program tracked by profession like we've got something for you.

1724
01:50:08,680 --> 01:50:12,080
And if you can only train three days a week, we can hook it up.

1725
01:50:12,080 --> 01:50:13,200
You want to train six days a week.

1726
01:50:13,200 --> 01:50:14,320
We got you.

1727
01:50:14,320 --> 01:50:19,440
But I think the ability to speak to a human on the other end.

1728
01:50:19,440 --> 01:50:23,320
Like I don't know, man.

1729
01:50:23,320 --> 01:50:28,680
For a while, I was uninterested in managing the inbox because it seems like people are

1730
01:50:28,680 --> 01:50:33,080
needy and they just want to send needy texts and take your time.

1731
01:50:33,080 --> 01:50:38,320
But the more that I'm in there interacting with the clients, the more it's like there's

1732
01:50:38,320 --> 01:50:40,560
some real growth here.

1733
01:50:40,560 --> 01:50:42,860
Like I asked this person how they were doing.

1734
01:50:42,860 --> 01:50:47,760
And instead of like some weird emoji, I got like a three paragraph explanation of the

1735
01:50:47,760 --> 01:50:52,600
introspection needed to get through a difficult time and how some of the mental skills that

1736
01:50:52,600 --> 01:50:55,080
they're learning have helped them in their life and their career.

1737
01:50:55,080 --> 01:50:57,520
And dude, that shit's meaningful.

1738
01:50:57,520 --> 01:51:02,160
As long as they didn't use chat GBT to write it.

1739
01:51:02,160 --> 01:51:07,120
Yeah, I don't even get me started on that, dude.

1740
01:51:07,120 --> 01:51:10,840
One of my colleagues in my cohort is using chat GBT for some assignments.

1741
01:51:10,840 --> 01:51:14,960
I'm like, man, I don't know if I agree with that or not.

1742
01:51:14,960 --> 01:51:15,960
Absolutely.

1743
01:51:15,960 --> 01:51:18,000
Well, mate, I want to thank you so much.

1744
01:51:18,000 --> 01:51:19,520
Like I said, this has been a long time coming.

1745
01:51:19,520 --> 01:51:23,680
I can foresee we're going to have another conversation not too far in the future because

1746
01:51:23,680 --> 01:51:28,600
we just skimmed the surface of a few things and there's so much more we could dive into.

1747
01:51:28,600 --> 01:51:31,840
But I want to thank you so much for being so generous with your time and coming on the

1748
01:51:31,840 --> 01:51:33,640
Behind the Shield podcast today.

1749
01:51:33,640 --> 01:51:34,640
Yeah, man.

1750
01:51:34,640 --> 01:51:37,680
Like I said, it's an honor, pleasure and a privilege, James.

1751
01:51:37,680 --> 01:51:50,560
We're stand up human and I sincerely appreciate what you're doing for the tactical community.