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I'm extremely excited to announce a brand new sponsor for the Behind the Shield podcast

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that is Transcend.

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Now for many of you listening, you are probably working the same brutal shifts that I did

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for 14 years.

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Suffering from sleep deprivation, body composition challenges, mental health challenges, libido,

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hair loss, etc.

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Now when it comes to the world of hormone replacement and peptide therapy, what I have

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seen is a shift from doctors telling us that we were within normal limits, which was definitely

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incorrect all the way to the other way now where men's clinics are popping up left, right

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and center.

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So I myself wanted to find a reputable company that would do an analysis of my physiology

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and then offer supplementations without ramming, for example, hormone replacement therapy down

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my throat.

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Now I came across Transcend because they have an altruistic arm and they were a big reason

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why the 7X project I was a part of was able to proceed because of their generous donations.

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They also have the Transcend foundations where they are actually putting military and first

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responders through some of their therapies at no cost to the individual.

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So my own personal journey so far filled in the online form, went to Quest, got blood

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drawn and a few days later I'm talking to one of their wellness professionals as they

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guide me through my results and the supplementation that they suggest.

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In my case specifically, because I transitioned out the fire service five years ago and been

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very diligent with my health, my testosterone was actually in a good place.

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So I went down the peptide route and some other supplements to try and maximize my physiology

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knowing full well the damage that 14 years of shift work has done.

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Now I also want to underline because I think this is very important that each of the therapies

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they offer, they will talk about the pros and cons.

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So for example, a lot of first responders in shift work, our testosterone will be low,

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but sometimes nutrition, exercise and sleep can offset that on its own.

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So this company is not going to try and push you down a path, especially if it's one that

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you can't come back from.

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So whether it's libido, brain fog, inflammation, gut health, performance, sleep, this is definitely

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one of the most powerful tools in the toolbox.

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So to learn more, go to transcendcompany.com or listen to episode 808 of the Behind the

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Shield podcast with founder Ernie Colling.

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Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast.

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As always, my name is James Gearing and this week is my absolute honor to welcome on the

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show former SAS soldier, military advisor to British Secret Service and the man behind

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Hawks and co Michael Hawks.

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So in this conversation, we discussed a host of topics from being a gymnast as a young

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man, his journey into the military, serving in Northern Ireland, the Falklands Islands,

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his transition into special forces, school safety, farm safety and so much more.

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Now before we get to this incredible conversation, as I say every week, please just take a moment,

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go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback and

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leave a rating.

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Every single five star rating truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making it easier for

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others to find.

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And this is a free library of almost 1000 episodes now.

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So all I ask in return is that you help share these incredible men and women stories so

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I can get them to every single person on planet Earth who needs to hear them.

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So with that being said, I introduce to you Michael Hawks.

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Enjoy.

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Well, Mick, I want to start by saying thank you so, so much for being so generous with

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your time and coming on the Behind the Shield podcast today.

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My pleasure.

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It's just me and two French bulldogs that are running around like lunatics.

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So no hassle at all.

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No problems.

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Perfect.

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Well, I have a Union Jack hanging in my office, which I'm not in today, funnily enough, and

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I see one in the back there.

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So where are we finding you on planet Earth today?

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Yeah, so I'm in a place called St. Owens Cross, which is a little village, basically,

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outside of Hereford, but closer to Ross-on-Wye.

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And I'm actually on the posh part of the farm, the working part of the farm is on the other

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side of the road.

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And I'm on the nice, decent side, if that makes sense.

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So nice and quiet.

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Great for the dogs.

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So rural Herefordshire.

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Beautiful.

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Yeah, my granddad was, I think it was my granddad's side, was raised in Herefordshire, in Hereford

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itself as well.

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So it's kind of funny that when I got older, I realized that in the military setting, that

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also is a pretty interesting place.

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It is.

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I class Hereford as home now.

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You know, I've spent nearly 40 years of my life here.

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All my kids were born here.

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They've all been educated here.

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So Yeah, so Hereford really is home.

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So let's start at the very beginning of your timeline then.

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Tell me where you were born and tell me a little bit about your family dynamic, what

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your parents did, how many siblings?

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Yeah, so I was actually born in a military camp in Balford, which is in Wiltshire.

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My father was in the military.

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He was Royal Signals.

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I went to 14 different schools or on the either in the UK or over in Germany purely because

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at that time, the military had a bad habit of moving every couple of years, you know,

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if that makes sense.

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So we, you know, off we went and trotted around the globe really.

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And so I spent six years in Germany.

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Love playing football.

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So or soccer, as you know, as the Americans say, love playing soccer.

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So played for every school that I went to.

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So my my up until the age of 15 and a half, all I ever wanted to be was a professional

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footballer.

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My mother and father got divorced while while we were in Germany.

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So that forced forced us ready.

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We came back with my mother.

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So there's me, my brother and my sister came back to a little little town in Lincolnshire

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of all of all places and did my last sort of 18 month of schooling in Lincolnshire,

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had a trial, a football trial with Lincoln City, a small little small little town, went

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up there, never got picked, unfortunately.

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So that was a major kick, kicking the backside really, you know, for a young lad aspires

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to be.

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That's my ambition in life.

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Now bizarrely, I never ever had any inclination of joining the military.

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And the reason being is all the units that we were, you know, that I was without in Germany,

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my father was attached to mainly Royal Artillery.

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These units have been in Germany for quite a long time.

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And there was a massive drinking culture in Germany, BAOR, as they used to call it.

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So you know, these people walk around fairly large, alcoholically rotund, as we call it,

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walk around, didn't really inspire me at all to join the military.

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So that was that was the last thing on my mind really.

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But once once I realized that I wasn't going to be a professional footballer.

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You know, you sit down, you have to be realistic about your options.

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Unfortunately, academically, not brilliant, because when I came back from Germany, the

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school syllabus was totally different.

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So you've got the basic lessons, your geography, history, English, maths.

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But thereafter, it was all totally different.

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So didn't really do enough to warrant going to college.

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So I just took Plan B and went down to the Army Recruiting Center in Grimsby.

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And the one person that really inspired me to join the military was sat at a desk with

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a paratrooper very on.

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Joining was the perfect sales pitch.

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And that was people jumping out of an airplane.

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And for a young kid of what I was 15 and a half still 15 and a bit, you know, seeing

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that that that was a job for me.

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Like, you know, so I've just signed on the dotted line.

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And I ended up joining Junior Parachute Regiment at 16.

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Just in fact, I was two months after my 16th birthday.

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You mentioned about growing up in Wiltshire.

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I'm from Corsham originally, just outside Bath.

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So I was right on the Wiltshire-Avon border.

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With that being said, though, you had this time in the UK.

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What was it like through your eyes?

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You mentioned about alcoholism and some of the military members that your dad was working

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with.

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What was the German experience like for a young English boy?

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Fantastic, because, you know, I played football and the Germans are brilliant.

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So I ended up playing for a little German town.

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I was 13, 14 years of age playing for the under 18.

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So yeah, it was brilliant, you know, for football.

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I learned a bit of my language.

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Actually, I love the Germans a bit because they're very direct, which is great.

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And to be honest, I absolutely thoroughly loved it.

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One of the first schools I went to was a boarding school up in a place called Wilmshaven, which

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is right on the northern Baltic area.

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And it was an old German naval base, grim, grim as hell, especially in the winter.

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But we were there for a year and then they built a brand new school further closer.

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I say closer, it was more of a bit of a drama because it used to be a 90 minute drive to

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get to school in the morning, 90 minute back.

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So it was a bit of a bit of a long old drag really.

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But yeah, no, Germany, I loved it.

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But like I say, no inspiration and joining the military.

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When you mentioned about the drinking culture in the military, you know, one of the things

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I think that forges our resilience and even, you know, the the potential of some of the

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mental health struggles when it comes to military and first responders is our early life.

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Did that affect the home life?

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Was your father a subject to that too?

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No, not really.

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Not that I noticed.

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You know, they had their parties.

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The annoying thing really as a young kid, their wedding anniversary was on Christmas

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Eve.

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You know what it's like when you try you got a bit early hoping to get your presents.

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We always had parties and people were still there at three o'clock in the morning when

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you're at the door ready to go and look at your presents.

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So yeah, that was frustrating.

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In Germany at the time, it was a very sociable time for my parents.

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You know, they had lots of friends and they used to come around.

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But you know, it didn't affect me at all.

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You know, I didn't, it certainly didn't overly affect me.

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But it certainly did do slightly after I joined the military.

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But I'll come to that in a minute if that makes sense.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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Well, I had a Mick Southall a little while ago who went through the Junior Power program.

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He found himself in the Falklands as well.

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If I've got that right, I believe he does.

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I interview so many people.

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Sometimes my stories get mixed up.

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But it was an amazing insight into the Junior Power and how these children, you know, are

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forged into men over the next few years.

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So walk me through that.

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What age were you when you enlisted?

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And then what did the Junior Power experience, you know, how did it unfold for you?

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Yeah, fantastic.

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So I was 16 and two months, really long hair, you know, in 1976, that was the style.

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So I had really long hair.

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So got all that chopped as soon as I got down, I got all that chopped off.

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The big winged shirts, I had hipster trousers, you know, with the four buttons on, you know,

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flares.

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I was a right off state to be to be quite frank, but I thought I was pretty cool.

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Got down there, got it all chopped off.

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And I am I right.

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So I have never ever finished a cross country run when I was at school.

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And the reason being fall under my arm.

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All I was interested in was playing football.

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So never actually participated in in the school cross country and athletics.

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You know, it's just one of them things I wasn't interested in.

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Got down to junior para and within within about the first two weeks, they had a we did

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it a 10 mile run like a cross country run, I suppose.

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Ten mile and the thought of doing 10 miles at that age.

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And bizarrely, I came second and realized that I was actually a natural runner.

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And I just wished I'd known that, known that before.

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So I got enlisted forced into the the junior para cross country team.

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I also joined the the gymnastic platoon because the gymnastic platoon traveled all around

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the country doing demonstrations, including the FA Cup final in 1976, which is Man United

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and Southampton.

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So very, very sporty type environment.

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Funny story, we came second in the regional cross country league.

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So you used to go to different military units as in juniors and we came second.

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So the junior parachute regiment came second to the Army Catering Corps.

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Oh, that's not going to be smashing physical ability.

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Yeah, so anyway, so we, you know, we got our trophies, you know, you know, first trophy

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ever.

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And we were heading back to Browning Barracks and Older Shop and the RSM.

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The RSM was there to greet us on the bus and we thought, oh, you know, he's going to say,

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well done, chaps and all this sort of malarkey.

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He had a he had a big metal bin with him.

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And he got on the bus and he went, if you think coming second to the Army Catering Corps

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is an achievement, you can think again, throw your throw your trophies in the bin as you

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get off a bus.

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And really, it was just that mentality.

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And so I did that for a year, really, up to the age of 17.

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And basically, junior powers really just teaching you really the basics of being a soldier marching.

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But doesn't actually take you the next step of proper soldiering.

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And you only do that really when you join recruit company.

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Now as a junior, so recruit company is the 24 week training that takes you through man

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service and then you can go and join your battalions, if that makes sense.

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So I joined about week five because, you know, the juniors have already done a year of learning

232
00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:03,880
out of March and stuff like that.

233
00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:10,000
So you actually joined at week five.

234
00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:16,560
Because I was, you know, I was like that skinny as hell, really, really good runner.

235
00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:20,680
Got myself through P Company, which I found quite hard because I was quite young, still

236
00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:21,680
very immature.

237
00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:24,360
You know, I was a 17 year old youngster.

238
00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:28,360
And so I found it quite quite hard going.

239
00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:31,080
Managed to get myself through it.

240
00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:40,280
About five weeks later, we were getting ready to go to a massive military exercise type

241
00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:45,880
training thing, which is called Advanced Wales down in Sully Bridge.

242
00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:53,840
And unfortunately, just before then, we went for a run, about a 10 mile run again, no medical

243
00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:57,880
facility, you know, no, no, you know, ambulance or whatever behind us.

244
00:16:57,880 --> 00:16:59,040
It was just a normal run.

245
00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:04,680
So a place called Hanclay Common in Older Shop.

246
00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:09,760
And the instructors decided to have a bit of a mess about and we were on a, I was on

247
00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:10,760
a tank burn.

248
00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:17,520
We were all on a tank burn, which was about an eight foot, nine foot drop into what we

249
00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:23,240
thought was going to be fairly soft mud and sand and all that sort of stuff.

250
00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:29,280
And they what they what they wanted us to do is what we perceived as being a para role,

251
00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:33,280
obviously non para trained at that time.

252
00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:40,280
Off you go, like, you know, and as I jumped, yeah, I just felt a snap and and actually

253
00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:42,120
broke my ankle quite badly.

254
00:17:42,120 --> 00:17:48,240
So all the rest of the lads, a bit annoyed because they had carried me, carried me back

255
00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:52,680
to back to Browning Barracks to the Med Center.

256
00:17:52,680 --> 00:18:00,280
They then sent me up to Cambridge Military, which is a fairly large hospital in in Older

257
00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:04,360
Shop, only literally only about a couple of kilometers away.

258
00:18:04,360 --> 00:18:10,880
They manipulated my ankle into place, put it in a cast and then and then sort of left

259
00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:13,460
it for two weeks, really.

260
00:18:13,460 --> 00:18:19,080
But unfortunately, after two weeks, they re X-rayed it and then they realized that the

261
00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:25,160
ankle hadn't fitted or hadn't knitted together as well as that they hoped.

262
00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:27,920
So they decided to pin it.

263
00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:28,920
So disappointed.

264
00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:34,720
So they pinned it so that for the next six months, it was just getting over that, getting

265
00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:40,480
it better rehabilitation and all that sort of stuff, only to be called in at the end

266
00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,720
of that six months to be told.

267
00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:50,880
So the training, the training officer and a medical doctor was there.

268
00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:58,840
And they informed me that my life in the parachute regiment was now over because I couldn't parachute.

269
00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:01,200
That was their that was their recommendation.

270
00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:02,400
You can't parachute anymore.

271
00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:11,480
So your options are go and join a normal infantry unit as such or labor military.

272
00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:17,640
And at that time, because you're indoctrinated into the parachute regiment, I suppose, you

273
00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,440
know, parachute regiment or nothing.

274
00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:22,520
I left a big mistake.

275
00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:29,480
I left the army and got out for about four months.

276
00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:30,480
Totally disappointing.

277
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:36,720
And it was probably the worst decision really that I could have done because I ended up

278
00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:42,480
going back to Lincolnshire, realized instantly that I was a bit of a bone move really getting

279
00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:43,480
out.

280
00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:48,960
So reapplied to to rejoin, if that makes sense.

281
00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:56,600
And I was lucky enough that I bumped into a that same paratrooper wasn't there.

282
00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:57,600
It was someone else now.

283
00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:00,360
But he said, listen, I've got your medical doctor.

284
00:20:00,360 --> 00:20:01,760
It's got a big, big red thing.

285
00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:03,560
No parachuting on there.

286
00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:08,440
So why and although you've got a really good report, you know, obviously a fit lad.

287
00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:12,880
And have you thought about being a commando?

288
00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:20,520
And at the time, there was only two armored commando units, engineers or the Royal Artillery.

289
00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:25,720
And because my father was attached to Royal Artillery, it just stuck in my head.

290
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:27,280
I thought, OK, here we go.

291
00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:31,480
I'll I'll join the the Royal Artillery.

292
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:37,160
So their basic training was down at Woolwich, just outside London, went down a bit of a

293
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:41,840
cheat really, because because bear in mind that, yes, I've been out for nearly five

294
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:43,640
months, I suppose.

295
00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:47,800
But you still had that you still knew military and all that sort of stuff.

296
00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:49,400
You know, that's not going to.

297
00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:54,320
So I ended up getting best shot, best gym and best recruit, which which I thought was

298
00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:56,720
a bit of a bit of a cheat, really.

299
00:20:56,720 --> 00:21:03,520
But they you know, they said, listen, you know, it is what it is and take it and whatever.

300
00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:05,480
So took that.

301
00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:12,320
Unfortunately, because I wanted to join two nine commando, there was only one space available

302
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:17,000
on it and it actually went to a guy who wasn't very fit at all.

303
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:20,320
But his brother was in two nine commando.

304
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:22,540
So he got the place really.

305
00:21:22,540 --> 00:21:28,760
So they they said, right, options are go and pick another unit and then you can you can

306
00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:31,640
volunteer and transfer across.

307
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:35,160
But you know, it'll take a few months before you can do that.

308
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:41,520
So I automatically just thought, ah, I'll go to the unit that my father was attached

309
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:43,720
to because, you know, he used to go to school there.

310
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:44,720
Blah, blah, blah.

311
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:50,860
So I went to an organization called 40 Field Regiment Royal Artillery, who just happened

312
00:21:50,860 --> 00:21:55,520
to be the alcoholic, the alcoholic regiment.

313
00:21:55,520 --> 00:22:01,560
And they actually sent me to 137 Battery, who happened to be the alcoholic battery of

314
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:04,560
the alcoholic.

315
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:09,040
Honestly, the drinking culture was phenomenal.

316
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:15,480
So I arrived at seven o'clock at night, got to go into a four man room, all the beds empty,

317
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:19,840
purely because they'd all gone straight to the bar.

318
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:26,040
Now in over in Germany at the time, the battery bars was underneath the accommodation.

319
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:32,280
So the guys had come from the gun park at, say, four o'clock in the afternoon, still

320
00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:40,040
in their cup rolls, you know, grimy cup rolls straight down into the bar and drinking alcohol

321
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:42,200
until about midnight or whatever.

322
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:45,220
And that was the daily routine.

323
00:22:45,220 --> 00:22:50,440
And then on a weekend, slightly different, they started at 12 and then drank all the

324
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:51,440
way.

325
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:53,360
You know, it's just phenomenal.

326
00:22:53,360 --> 00:23:00,760
So I woke up about three o'clock in the morning to a sound of dripping water.

327
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:05,760
And the guy opposite me was was obviously peeing his bed.

328
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:07,500
I got up at seven.

329
00:23:07,500 --> 00:23:12,560
You know, hi, guys, I'm the new guy.

330
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:18,760
Then got a shower, came back and the guy that had peed his bed was still in his uniform,

331
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:28,400
but he'd reached underneath his bed and literally opened a can of lager and just nicked it down.

332
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:32,240
And I just thought, look, this is hardcore drinking here.

333
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,860
I've seriously got to think about doing some of it.

334
00:23:35,860 --> 00:23:43,520
So I literally went off and joined the athletics, football, cross country, tug of war, bizarrely,

335
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:46,360
because the Royal Artillery were very good at tug of war.

336
00:23:46,360 --> 00:23:53,400
And it really just got me away and doing something other than getting sucked into a drinking

337
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:58,880
culture, which was very, very easy to do, if that makes sense.

338
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:03,720
Just to jump in, what do you think it was, knowing that we all kind of finally realized

339
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:09,000
now in 2024 that drinking, you know, like a lot of addictions is filling a void, you

340
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:13,280
know, something that we're we're trying to get away from, forget, downregulate, whatever

341
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:14,480
it is.

342
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:20,840
What do you think was the cause of so much anxiety, depression, whatever it was, that

343
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:24,280
was causing that to be rife in that particular unit?

344
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:32,280
Yeah, I think because the 40 Field Regiment at the time had been based in the same camp

345
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,480
for 22 years.

346
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:38,080
So I think it just became a natural culture.

347
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:44,240
Unless you were very single minded to say, right, I'm going to join the cross country

348
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,220
team and just dedicate myself to running.

349
00:24:47,220 --> 00:24:52,400
It was very easy for the normal people, the average soldier, I suppose, especially the

350
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:57,880
youngsters to go with peer pressure and peer pressure is, you know, let's go down the battery

351
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,480
bar, you know, have a beer, blah, blah, blah.

352
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:01,840
And away you go.

353
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:09,280
So, you know, I bear in mind that we had the I was only there eight months and we had three

354
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:10,280
suicides.

355
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:14,160
You know, a guy shot himself in the head.

356
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:20,520
We do a thing called site guard over there where you're actually guarding specific sites

357
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:23,160
of high value, if that makes sense.

358
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:28,600
And, you know, and you've got these towers, watch towers, and we just heard a shot at

359
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:36,440
night and a lad had decided to shoot himself through the mouth with an SLR, you know, took

360
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:38,960
the complete top of his head off.

361
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:47,960
We had a guy jump in front of a lorry on the autobahn, just jumped out in front of it.

362
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:52,440
And it was a shame because he was in the cross country team, not in the cross country, he

363
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,040
was in the athletics team.

364
00:25:55,040 --> 00:26:02,120
But he was a half gas lad and apparently we didn't know, but he was getting bullied by

365
00:26:02,120 --> 00:26:06,880
and it wasn't in our battery, it was in another battery.

366
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:10,600
And he, you know, decided enough was enough, so jumped in front.

367
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:19,240
And the other guy was he hung himself in the stores, you know, they couldn't find him and

368
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,920
maybe found him the next day and he'd hung himself.

369
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:28,200
And so that was a bit of a culture shock really, because that's what eight months or just less,

370
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:29,200
I suppose.

371
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:30,200
And you've got three suicides.

372
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:39,440
And yeah, it was just that, you know, that heavy and really, it accelerated my plans

373
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,080
to get away from there as quick as I can.

374
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:49,440
So I volunteered for every course I could try and do signals, OP, OPAC, whatever, all

375
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:56,200
sorts of courses just to just to get away from that, that environment.

376
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,120
And anyway, so we were doing cross country.

377
00:26:59,120 --> 00:27:02,840
They the battery was away doing so much.

378
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:07,080
And I managed to get put my shit in and you know, I want to go to 9 command now.

379
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:08,720
They were going to be away for three weeks.

380
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:13,440
By the time they got back, I was packing my kit and I was gone.

381
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:20,000
And I and I got a flight over to Plymouth ready to do the command, of course.

382
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:21,080
And that was my way out.

383
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:26,680
But yeah, Germany at the time was not not healthy at all.

384
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:28,960
Or it could be it could be very healthy.

385
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:34,040
You could have had a great time in Germany if you were very single minded and determined

386
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:35,520
not to get sucked into it.

387
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:39,120
But unfortunately, a lot of people do do get sucked into it.

388
00:27:39,120 --> 00:27:44,480
The people that escape it really are the married people because they're going back home to

389
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:46,240
their family.

390
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:51,280
But we had a lot of single single lads lived in the block.

391
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:53,240
Quite a few old and bold ones as well.

392
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:57,640
Like, you know, they've been in there for many years and they were the problem.

393
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:03,600
You know, they had this sort of this reach around getting people and let's go to the

394
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:04,600
bar.

395
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:06,840
It was it was just an unhealthy drinking culture.

396
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:11,320
But yeah, I managed to stay away from that, thankfully.

397
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:15,520
I think one of the least discussed elements of the mental health conversation is the multi

398
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:17,320
generational trauma.

399
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:22,320
And you know, we've kind of romanticized the World War Two generation and not downplaying

400
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:23,460
what they actually did.

401
00:28:23,460 --> 00:28:25,760
What they actually did was incredible.

402
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:29,980
But we almost then painted a kind of facade that they just kind of rolled up their sleeves

403
00:28:29,980 --> 00:28:34,000
and got on with it and went back to work as if that wasn't going to have an immense impact

404
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:38,620
that you were in Bastogne or whatever area that you served.

405
00:28:38,620 --> 00:28:42,040
And then now I'm doing almost a thousand interviews.

406
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,560
You hear about, you know, usually grandpa, sometimes even dad, depending on the age of

407
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:46,680
the guest.

408
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:51,160
And then you realize, oh, no, these men and women didn't come back unharmed at all.

409
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,440
There was a huge amount of alcoholism and domestic violence.

410
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,680
And, you know, and again, it's not judging these people.

411
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:58,120
They had no conversation.

412
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,280
No one was talking about this then.

413
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:04,920
When you look at that generation that you're talking about, was there ever any stories

414
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:11,640
of the parents or conflicts prior that kind of lent to this epidemic that we're seeing

415
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:13,680
like dominoes falling at the moment?

416
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,160
Yeah, not really.

417
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,920
And I think a lot of it is because I just kept away from it.

418
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,880
In fact, because it can be quite depressing.

419
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:23,720
And I'm generally not a depressed.

420
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:28,680
I think that I'm not I'm actually quite a positive individual.

421
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:33,800
So yeah, so I literally just kept away from the, you know, that side of it and the story

422
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:34,800
side of it.

423
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,320
My mother and father are obviously divorced.

424
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:43,360
You know, so there was a massive divorce rate in Germany at the time and the way that went.

425
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:50,520
And it's funny because my father was a very unsupportive individual, you know, a typical

426
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:51,920
military guy, I suppose.

427
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:58,560
But, you know, he never once came and saw me play football, which I thought was quite

428
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:03,520
bizarre because you would have thought that your father would be pretty chopped to bits.

429
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:08,440
So I can relate, by the way, I won national championships in martial arts, so my dad never

430
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:09,880
watched me fight once.

431
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:12,120
So I know how it feels.

432
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:13,120
But yeah, absolutely.

433
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:14,120
It's frustrating, isn't it?

434
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:18,880
Because, you know, you look up and you see people and it'd be nice just to see your parents,

435
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:20,880
you know, watching.

436
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:24,520
And so because my father wasn't there, my mother wasn't there because she couldn't

437
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:25,520
drive obviously.

438
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:31,760
So that was but but what that did do is later on in life, when I got married and I had four

439
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:37,280
kids, I used to think back, you know, how can I be a better father than what my dad

440
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:39,560
was, if that makes sense?

441
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:47,440
Now, my father, he when they divorced, we sort of moved back from Germany at the time

442
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:49,400
to Lincolnshire.

443
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:55,080
And he came to visit me and my brother because my sister was quite young at the time.

444
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,400
And he brought four cans of beer.

445
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:03,440
Now, I was 15 and a bit never, never drunk alcohol in my life.

446
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:09,000
So why he brought four cans of beer expecting to have a chat with the boys.

447
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,280
But what it was, was him saying goodbye.

448
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,840
And he walked out the door never to be seen again.

449
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,440
You know, it was and I could never do that.

450
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:24,000
You know, if I've got three kids and I divorce, then I'm making sure I see the kids.

451
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,080
So that was, you know, that was him.

452
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:33,320
And that really, yeah, put me put me off, you know, ever, ever again.

453
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:38,360
So so my sister years later, tried to track him down, wasn't interested.

454
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:39,680
Absolutely.

455
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:45,640
Because I just thought if anyone that could walk out of a 15 year old, a 16 year old,

456
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:52,880
my brother and a seven year old sister is not right.

457
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:56,120
So you know, yes, you can track him down.

458
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:59,080
I personally not interested.

459
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:00,800
And I've never seen him since.

460
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:07,160
Unfortunately, passed away a few years ago, remarried, you know, and everything else.

461
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:08,160
Good luck to him, I suppose.

462
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:11,720
But as a father, no, not interested.

463
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:17,200
You know, when you walk out of a family, you know, and do it in that fashion.

464
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:25,000
Yeah, it had a massive effect on me, you know, that that you could do that for, you know,

465
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:26,000
to your kids.

466
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:27,720
And it just made me a better father.

467
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:29,880
Yeah, you know, I'm very, very close.

468
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:35,760
I'm, you know, I got divorced, more separated after 30 years.

469
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:36,760
Nothing untoward.

470
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,160
It was just we drifted apart.

471
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:43,520
So it survived the military, the marriage, when the kids were all young.

472
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:47,560
But as the kids were getting older, and I was in corporate security, but still working

473
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:52,360
away long, long, you know, six weeks on two weeks off, we literally drifted apart.

474
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:57,280
And I would come in having been galleranting all around the world.

475
00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:03,160
And my ex wife, Kim and Keely, my daughter would be planning a holiday.

476
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:08,360
And as I came in, I was the doggy setter, because we had four dogs and two cats.

477
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:12,680
And I was happy, just happy to be back home and just chilling.

478
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:17,000
You know, you go off, you know, I'll take you to the airport, enjoy yourself, come back.

479
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:21,320
So we just found that we were drifting apart, if that makes sense.

480
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,320
But we actually got on better now than what we did, because we were bickering quite a

481
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:25,320
lot.

482
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:32,720
And it was very noticeable for my daughter as well.

483
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:36,000
But we actually, we actually got on really well now.

484
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,280
You know, we're not we're not together again.

485
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:43,520
We won't get back together, or I don't think so anyway.

486
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:47,160
But certainly, we actually got on it.

487
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:48,160
And it's great for the kids.

488
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:54,480
And I always I'm a big believer that if you ever separate because you never know, life

489
00:33:54,480 --> 00:34:00,180
always changes like, you know, and if anyone ever splits up, always make sure it's amicable

490
00:34:00,180 --> 00:34:02,400
because of the kids.

491
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:09,480
So when they're planning, you know, birthdays and, you know, all this sort of thing, it

492
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:14,280
doesn't put them in a position of, you know, who, who should we invite?

493
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,800
You know, because they're going to be fighting like cats and dogs, you know, at least for

494
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:21,320
me and Kim, at least we got on quite well.

495
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:25,360
So you know, we've done quite a few joints, you know, family visits.

496
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:31,880
We're, we're a wedding last year, all together, if that makes sense.

497
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:32,880
So yeah.

498
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:42,080
But like I say, my son, the way my father was, it had a massive effect on how I looked

499
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:45,880
at my kids, you know, I encouraged them to do as much sport.

500
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:55,360
And, you know, karate, judo, football, rugby, everything that we did, but we didn't push

501
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:56,360
them.

502
00:34:56,360 --> 00:35:01,880
So all to the extent of, you know, as soon as you feel that you're, you're bored, had

503
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,200
enough and then fair do's, you know, come up.

504
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:08,760
The only thing we were persistent with was a musical instrument.

505
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,440
So they all picked their instrument, what they wanted to learn.

506
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:18,400
And that's the only thing really that they had to continue with up until senior school

507
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,440
when they can make their own decision, if that makes sense.

508
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:25,960
But everything else, it was, you know, do it for as long as you feel you're happy with

509
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:26,960
doing it.

510
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:32,280
And then when you, when you feel that you're not happy with doing it, then, you know, go

511
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:33,280
and do something else.

512
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:38,040
Because that's what kids are like, you know, they can plan, they can do it as much as they

513
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:41,940
want, like, you know, but without being forced into it.

514
00:35:41,940 --> 00:35:46,680
When I speak to a lot of the people who are athletes when they were younger and the coaches,

515
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:50,620
the multi-sport athlete is usually the most resilient and the most successful.

516
00:35:50,620 --> 00:35:54,120
So this idea, especially in America, where, you know, you've got your kid playing baseball

517
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:58,480
and throwing pitches at three years old, and every summer they're doing travel ball and

518
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:02,680
sports camps, and then they wonder why their shoulder explodes at 17 years old.

519
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:03,960
It's because of that.

520
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:09,040
And I have the same philosophy, both of, you know, what you've said, my dad was, let's

521
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,840
just say he wasn't there, you know, in many ways, and there was, you know, an element

522
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:14,160
of straying as well.

523
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:17,560
So you know, I could have gone one of two ways.

524
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:21,600
I think this is what's beautiful about, you know, the husband, the wife, a father or mother

525
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:23,560
is you get to choose.

526
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:28,280
Do you follow that same level of trauma, that same path where my dad was an alcoholic, my

527
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:30,760
granddad was an alcoholic, I'm destined to be one?

528
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:34,160
Or do you say, I'm going to do the complete opposite.

529
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:37,680
And I've made sure that apart from being on shift as a firefighter, that I was there for

530
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,580
every single one of my games, my son's games.

531
00:36:40,580 --> 00:36:44,640
And he played, you know, he's played at a high level in school as far as varsity, and

532
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:49,320
he's played in just little, you know, local pickup football, you know, leagues.

533
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:53,320
And I've always been there because when he scores a goal or when he saves a goal or whatever

534
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:57,360
it is, I want to be there when he turns around with that big smile on the face.

535
00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:01,440
Same as you did when you scored a goal or I did when I won a fight and turned to the

536
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:03,640
stands and all I saw were my friend's parents.

537
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:08,440
So I think it's beautiful that you were able to take the higher ground and say, I'm going

538
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:12,720
to learn from my father what not to do rather than the other way.

539
00:37:12,720 --> 00:37:13,720
Yeah, absolutely.

540
00:37:13,720 --> 00:37:22,000
Because I, you know, I found that I was quite fortunate having four kids in the military.

541
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:27,200
I was actually there for all their births, which is extremely unusual.

542
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:32,400
So my oldest was born in Plymouth when I was an instructor on the all arms command, of

543
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:36,680
course, and literally he was four days old.

544
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:39,120
When I went on SAS selection.

545
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:45,160
So I the next time I saw him, he was six months old, which is a bit bizarre.

546
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:50,800
Now trying to explain to people that when you do things like SAS selection, you've got

547
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:57,880
to be completely single minded and, you know, everything else is blocked out the way.

548
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:03,000
But for me, you know, it was worth blocking out the family.

549
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:10,160
So my my my new wife, we'd only been married about 18 months and then and then having a

550
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:12,920
young son of four days old.

551
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:13,920
Selfish.

552
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:14,920
Yeah.

553
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:18,200
But I was looking at the end game.

554
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:25,040
We were going to be improving our life lifestyle and everything by passing this course.

555
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:26,040
And off we went.

556
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:28,160
And and quite bizarrely, we were in the junk.

557
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:34,280
So they the the hardest part of SAS selection is obviously the jungle phase because you're

558
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:40,040
in canopy and you know, it can be quite intimidating.

559
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:44,080
And you've got to be you've got to be completely focused on what you're doing.

560
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:49,080
It can be a very dangerous environment if you're having thoughts of anything else.

561
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:56,960
And and this lad came up to me one day and and started asking about my son.

562
00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:00,800
Because he's he's got a young he had a young son as well.

563
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:10,560
When I found out and he just wanted a conversation about and to be honest, I got rid of him.

564
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:12,560
I was short stripped.

565
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:17,680
Sorry, mate, but not interested like, you know, so and so so ready just fobbed him off

566
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:23,320
there and then because, you know, I didn't want to start dwelling on on family when,

567
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:25,920
you know, we're there to to pass SAS selection.

568
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:33,240
And the next day, this lad decided to to bin it and and can do it.

569
00:39:33,240 --> 00:39:42,400
And and and I think the talk really was was possibly a cry for help, I suppose, just to.

570
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:47,800
But but what I didn't want to do is is end up being the person that he's his shoulders

571
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:55,840
on or a shoulder to cry on, because it would have me thinking about family and that would

572
00:39:55,840 --> 00:40:02,240
could have devastating effects really on your ability to to to do the job in hand, because

573
00:40:02,240 --> 00:40:03,960
some of the stuff you do in the jungle.

574
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:04,960
Very, very dangerous.

575
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:11,600
And you've got to be completely focused on what you're doing and certainly, you know,

576
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:17,040
every teenage young boy, your four day old son is massively put in the back.

577
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:25,360
And that and that takes a lot of a lot of selfishness, I would say, but also discipline

578
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:26,360
as well.

579
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:27,720
You know, you've got a job to do that.

580
00:40:27,720 --> 00:40:28,720
Let's get on with it.

581
00:40:28,720 --> 00:40:35,400
Like, you know, and then, you know, again, with the three other boy, the three other

582
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:39,320
kids, two other sons.

583
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:45,800
I very, very fortunate that I just happen to be either in Hereford and my daughter when

584
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:50,880
she was born, I was actually attached to my five in London.

585
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:55,840
And we had the bloopers and days rather mobile for a bit of a bleeper.

586
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:59,120
And the message came through on the bleeper.

587
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:00,120
Come home.

588
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:01,840
I mean, labor.

589
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:06,720
So I kept the message because I was hammering about 130 mile an hour down the M4.

590
00:41:06,720 --> 00:41:09,520
You could show the officer.

591
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:10,520
Absolutely.

592
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:16,440
So if I was going to get pinged and you just say, listen, and bizarrely, I had a rear rear

593
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:22,520
left blowout of the vehicle 130 mile an hour.

594
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:25,320
And this is why and it was a Toyota.

595
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:29,680
But it but the vehicle never it never came offline.

596
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:32,720
You know, big bang, sort of drifting over.

597
00:41:32,720 --> 00:41:35,440
Man, she quickly change it.

598
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:36,440
Did it slow us down?

599
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:43,280
So I needed to get back and let's say stormed into the house, you know, expecting a new

600
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:49,440
baby and my ex wife was stood there as you went, oh, I don't know what's going on.

601
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,320
And she went, oh, you know, I'm you know, it's coming.

602
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:54,520
But you know, anyway, go upstairs, have a shower.

603
00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:56,720
I'll make you some tea.

604
00:41:56,720 --> 00:42:01,920
And literally within 10 minutes ready of me going out, I'm a quick shower.

605
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:04,080
She started screaming.

606
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:06,400
You know, call the midwife.

607
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:12,120
We sent the three boys out to go and play football as you do.

608
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:17,960
And and let's say half an hour later, my daughter was born and they and thankfully the midwife

609
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:21,480
let me cut the cord, which is great.

610
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:24,720
And yeah, so four fantastic kids love it.

611
00:42:24,720 --> 00:42:29,880
You know, you know, and you know, they're just they're just awesome dudes.

612
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:36,960
And they keep you I find with kids that they keep you very grounded.

613
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:41,960
You know, you can you can be off in Northern Ireland doing some stuff over there.

614
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:45,920
You come back and next minute you're picking the kids up.

615
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:49,920
So it's it gives you that sense of normality.

616
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:54,200
That's where it whereas, you know, single blokes, maybe, you know, they come back from

617
00:42:54,200 --> 00:43:00,000
Ireland or whatever, and then go back to the block or go back to an empty house and they

618
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,600
could dwell on, you know, what they've actually done.

619
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:07,680
Whereas when you've got, you know, four or three boys at the time jumping all over your

620
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:12,680
head and it was it was good grounding.

621
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:17,200
You know, I mean, and it just kept you level headed and normal.

622
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:18,680
And you just didn't.

623
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:26,400
So I'm really fortunate that having done quite a lot in my military career, I suppose, and

624
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:30,960
afterwards, you know, there's some quite dodgy stuff thereafter.

625
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:35,080
But I sleep easier at night and and and thankful for that.

626
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:40,720
And a lot of that is because I had a stable stable marriage and great kids around.

627
00:43:40,720 --> 00:43:47,280
And I always say that if you've got a really good family to come back to at night time,

628
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:54,120
you can you can sort of get away from me, you know, get the ghosts away and just concentrate

629
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:57,080
on the good side of stuff, if that makes sense.

630
00:43:57,080 --> 00:44:03,880
So so never, never ever suffered, you know, post-traumatic stress, none of that.

631
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:10,320
And I am, you know, and but a lot of that is, you know, family, having a really cool

632
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:17,120
family to to get you through them dark, dark moments, I suppose.

633
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:18,680
It's funny when you were talking about that.

634
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:20,480
I've never really thought of it this way.

635
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:26,080
But when as firefighter paramedics in America, you know, we see everyone's worst day, no

636
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:28,000
one's calling saying, hey, I'm having a great day.

637
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:29,400
Just wanted to check in with you.

638
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:32,600
You know, it's it's it can be, you know, the worst day might be is something as silly,

639
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:33,840
which I have run on.

640
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:38,360
My dentures don't take rice taste right, which is obviously a psychological issue all the

641
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:41,960
way through to these horrific car crashes and fatal fires and all the things that we

642
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:43,400
respond to.

643
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:48,320
But when you go home, not only do you get hopefully if you live in a somewhat decent

644
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:52,680
area, you get a taste of the rest of the world, because we're seeing this little slice, you

645
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:57,120
know, these these emergent calls that most people only experience maybe a handful of

646
00:44:57,120 --> 00:44:59,560
times in their entire existence.

647
00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:01,760
But also, it's proactive.

648
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:03,520
In my job is very reactive.

649
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:05,600
You know, someone it's already gone horribly wrong.

650
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:09,120
Now we have to go and unfuck it basically, for lack of a better word.

651
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:14,600
But then when you go home, you have an opportunity to raise kind, compassionate, considerate

652
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:18,920
children that hopefully will be the opposite, especially if we're responding to crimes,

653
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:22,920
you know, and gangs and homelessness and addiction and sex workers and all the things that people

654
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:24,760
have found themselves desperate.

655
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:27,260
You have an opportunity to move the balance the other way.

656
00:45:27,260 --> 00:45:31,720
So I think that's also a healing element when you come back, whether it's a shift as a firefighter

657
00:45:31,720 --> 00:45:33,720
or a deployment of war.

658
00:45:33,720 --> 00:45:34,720
Yeah, absolutely.

659
00:45:34,720 --> 00:45:41,640
I'll tell you what, funny old thing, but when when we actually separated, we lived in a

660
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:46,400
quite a large five bed barn conversion right out in the country.

661
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:47,400
Fantastic.

662
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:50,240
I actually thought that that was our forever home.

663
00:45:50,240 --> 00:45:52,560
But situations changes and all that sort of thing.

664
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:57,760
So when we when we were sort of talking about, you know, divvying things up as you do, I

665
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:02,120
actually gave the whole house to to my ex wife, to Kim.

666
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:07,160
And the reason being is, you know, four fantastic kids.

667
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:08,160
She deserved it.

668
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:12,080
She absolutely, 100 percent deserved it because, you know, when I was in the military, she

669
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:15,080
was always there, always there for the kids.

670
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:20,640
When I'd left the military and I started working away again, even more so than when I was in

671
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:22,600
the military.

672
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:26,080
She was always there for the kids, like, you know, and the way the kids have been brought

673
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:30,000
up really is testament to her as opposed to me.

674
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:32,440
And I'm yes, I'm a father and this, that and the other.

675
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:39,160
But the discipline, the manners, the way they are is all through her.

676
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:46,200
And I just thought, you know, who am I to be, you know, a total prat and a bit of an

677
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:52,400
a hole to to, you know, to start taking things away and stuff like that.

678
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:57,320
So I'm because my daughter was still living with my ex wife.

679
00:46:57,320 --> 00:47:01,680
You know, also in the back of my mind, I thought, yeah, at least my daughter's she's going to

680
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:02,680
be catered for.

681
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:04,920
So I thought I was mad as a hatter.

682
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:06,880
What are you doing?

683
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:11,880
But at the time I was living in house, I was in Monaco for three years.

684
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:12,880
Not ideal.

685
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:17,920
But I, you know, it meant that I wasn't I didn't really need the house, if that makes

686
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:18,920
sense.

687
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:21,480
So, yeah, I gave it to gave it to Kim.

688
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:24,320
Unfortunately, she's sold it.

689
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:29,040
I was a bit gutted about that, but she sold it because her and my daughter run a little

690
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:31,240
business in Hereford.

691
00:47:31,240 --> 00:47:36,640
And they obviously wanted to be a bit closer because we used to be about 40 miles outside

692
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:37,640
of Hereford.

693
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:44,120
So they they actually sold the house, went mortgage free and brought a nice little house

694
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:45,600
in in Hereford itself.

695
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:48,720
Like, you know, so, yeah, good, good on him, like, you know.

696
00:47:48,720 --> 00:47:56,040
But I didn't I didn't want his money issues getting in the way of my relationship with

697
00:47:56,040 --> 00:48:00,880
the kids, which I thought was quite important.

698
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:07,560
And it's very easy to do, you know, people get this thing of money and and it can ruin

699
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:14,520
a completely wreck a relationship, even with your kids, if that makes sense to be if you're

700
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:15,520
that way orientated.

701
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:18,080
And I just didn't want to do that.

702
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:22,960
You know, I was quite content and they go, you take the house.

703
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:25,960
And like I say, she absolutely deserved it.

704
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:32,640
You know, I married her when she was 19, you know, dragged her away from Scotland, which

705
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:37,080
is where and where she lived, dragged her all the way down to Plymouth initially while

706
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:41,640
I was on the all arms command, of course, and moved her up to Hereford.

707
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:49,080
You know, she had three three kiddies, three young boys all under the age of three.

708
00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:53,320
You might, you know, you know, when you've not got family around you, you know, all her

709
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:54,920
family are up in Scotland.

710
00:48:54,920 --> 00:49:00,760
She was pretty hardcore, you know, fantastic mom like, you know, and I just, you know,

711
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:05,960
I know every now and then I, you know, I had to have a chat with the kids, you know, when

712
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:10,800
sometimes they, you know, kids get a bit of a moody on with their with a mom or dad or

713
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:11,800
whatever.

714
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:16,240
But when they have a moody on with the mom, I always remind them that, listen, when you

715
00:49:16,240 --> 00:49:20,880
were growing up, who was always there for you, your mom.

716
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:27,040
So go around now and apologize and suck it up, like, you know, just get on with it.

717
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:35,960
And yeah, so it's it's it's been gracious, really, and and humble about what wives go

718
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:41,160
through, you know, because people always go on about the military, you know, military

719
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:45,160
guys, blah, blah, blah, blah, and all this, you know, bangs.

720
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:51,600
But actually, you know, the wives, because they're living that, you know, the worry,

721
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:57,440
quite bizarrely, you know, one of my sons, all my three sons are in the military.

722
00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:06,400
One of them deployed to Afghanistan a few years ago, and my ex wife was Kim was absolutely

723
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:08,960
distraught.

724
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:11,980
You know, and I looked at her and went, Hold on.

725
00:50:11,980 --> 00:50:16,040
When I used to go to Bosnia and undercover in Ireland and all that stuff, you never used

726
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:18,360
to cry like that.

727
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:22,560
And she quite rightly so she went, Yeah, but you're my husband.

728
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:23,560
These are my kids.

729
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:27,240
You know, these are my babies like, you know, and she's right.

730
00:50:27,240 --> 00:50:29,480
You know, they they say it's like the difference.

731
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:39,360
So yeah, I love a lot of time for, you know, the forces wives purely because they do really

732
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:46,400
put up with a lot for very little reward, I suppose.

733
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:51,560
So so who was I to, you know, take half of a house and make her struggle?

734
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:53,840
Well, that's not within my nature.

735
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:55,880
If I make sense.

736
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:56,880
It does.

737
00:50:56,880 --> 00:51:01,200
Well, speaking of sending children to war, let's go back to the Falklands.

738
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:04,640
So you've become a commander, you've still got a pin in your foot.

739
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:09,440
Firstly, I've had a let me see, I had John Geddes or John Graham, I think was his pen

740
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:17,720
name, Philip Neame, Nick Southall on the show, all that were deployed in various roles.

741
00:51:17,720 --> 00:51:22,600
And one of the things I think that's the least discussed was the heroism of some of the civilian

742
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:24,800
vessels that transported you guys down.

743
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:28,040
Did you go on the camera to the Falklands or was it a different vessel?

744
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:31,700
No, I came back on the camera when it all finished.

745
00:51:31,700 --> 00:51:40,040
We went we actually started off on the an LSL landing ship auxiliary called the Supercell

746
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:41,040
Ville.

747
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:48,240
So flat bottom, flat bottom vessel and attached to the port side of the vessel.

748
00:51:48,240 --> 00:51:54,440
I don't know why I've got my right hand up.

749
00:51:54,440 --> 00:52:02,320
So on the port side of the vessel was a massive mexi float or a raft, you know, big metal

750
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:06,080
thing and it just banged.

751
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:09,760
So all the way down there you got this flipping banging of this big metal thing on a flat

752
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:10,760
bottom vessel.

753
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:16,760
When we got into the Bay of Biscay, everyone was violently sick.

754
00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:24,680
So yeah, so we were on that ready all the way down to Ascension Island and then just

755
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:30,880
after the Ascension Island, all the vessels stopped on Ascension really.

756
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:35,800
And it was a great way really of getting off because on a vessel you have to wear soft

757
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:41,400
shoes, trainers or desert wellies or whatever flip flops.

758
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:49,160
But it was a great way of getting onto a volcanic island and doing a 10 mile run in your boots

759
00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:56,720
again and just to just to get the cobwebs out I suppose and but your feet were just

760
00:52:56,720 --> 00:52:58,320
completely soft.

761
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:03,760
So you actually mashed them up with blisters and everything else by the time you finished.

762
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:08,340
Now we did one because we were attached to four or five commando.

763
00:53:08,340 --> 00:53:14,260
So we did a 10 mile yob as they call it around the island and then two days later, Three

764
00:53:14,260 --> 00:53:20,760
Para decided that they were going to do their their tab around there and they wanted to

765
00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:27,820
work with OP parties, Royal Atelier OP parties to test the communication really and doing

766
00:53:27,820 --> 00:53:34,120
a bit of you know how we would operate together if we were ever together.

767
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:38,920
So some bright spot volunteered us to do another one.

768
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:44,040
So we did another 10 mile barely mind that we're you know blistered feet by this time.

769
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:49,200
But because you're wearing a green hat and you're with you're with paras you didn't

770
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:52,400
let that show like you know and off you went and did it.

771
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:57,480
But it was good because it like I could say it just got you got the cobwebs out ready

772
00:53:57,480 --> 00:54:03,040
for and then we and then we really crossed decked over to a vessel called the Stromness.

773
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:12,600
Which was a military vessel but it was a more of a logistics type vessel called the Stromness

774
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:17,160
quite a big old thing and it's where four or five commando were.

775
00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:23,240
So we as OP because we were artillery OP's we were going to be attached to them.

776
00:54:23,240 --> 00:54:28,880
When I say artillery I've never been on the guns in my life you know so that's there down

777
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:35,160
one end I'm at the other end with the with four or five commando directing the gunfire

778
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:38,480
and all that sort of stuff if that makes sense.

779
00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:43,760
So we had three four man teams that were and we were attached to a company called Yankee

780
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:51,460
Company and it was great because our camp in Arbroath Scotland was four or five commando.

781
00:54:51,460 --> 00:54:55,840
So the people that you're actually going to war with you actually know through you know

782
00:54:55,840 --> 00:55:01,160
going to Norway for years and know I'm drinking alcohol in town or whatever like you know

783
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:04,680
socializing which is great.

784
00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:09,520
Whereas the other two batteries that we had they were working with units and they were

785
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:15,520
separated so they didn't really have that close bond.

786
00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:25,360
So yeah so it was funny story so when we landed when we were due to go on shore so you got

787
00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:31,960
all the Marines in a land little landing craft now we got on and we somehow ended up at the

788
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:38,760
front you know where the ramp was and we were looking around going hold on how come we're

789
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:42,760
at the front here like you know but you just suck it up and get on with it like you know

790
00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:50,360
and they made us carry four mortar bombs so obviously you're berging four four mortar

791
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:57,480
bombs and it was just a quick way ready of getting mortars or mortar bombs onto the beach

792
00:55:57,480 --> 00:55:58,480
if that makes sense.

793
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:04,840
So the ramp went down thankfully it was an unopposed landing we got off stack it off

794
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:09,800
with all your kit that's quite heavy drop the drop the mortar bombs down on the the

795
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:15,200
beach and it was a nice big part of it and then just moved up into the high ground so

796
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:20,560
you know it was and really up until about three or four days before that we actually

797
00:56:20,560 --> 00:56:26,320
thought that you know they'd come up with some sort of peace settlement and it'd be

798
00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:30,720
all a waste of time but literally the night before when you're getting all camped up and

799
00:56:30,720 --> 00:56:34,800
you're starting to get all your orders and you're good to go that's when you when you

800
00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:40,120
realize that this is it okay let's go for it like you know and but it's what all kids

801
00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:44,800
anyone that joins the military you know that's what you've always wanted to do like you know

802
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:50,760
so you know it's time to get on with it like you know so it was good it's thoroughly enjoyed

803
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:58,760
it if that makes sense but I think a couple of days into it when so the initial part was

804
00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:06,440
just forming a beachhead as they call it so get all the troops into the high ground we

805
00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:14,040
saw a lot of damage so we had a ship called the Antelope which is a little frigate that

806
00:57:14,040 --> 00:57:21,320
got bombed and it blew up there was a bomb that didn't go off a very brave individual

807
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:27,280
went on there to try and defuse it it went off he got killed a few others but the sad

808
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:33,800
side of it really breaking its back and literally you know it was about two kilometers out in

809
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:41,040
the sound directly in front of us so quite a poignant night really knowing that a vessel

810
00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:46,760
was just sunk directly in front of you like you know so again that you know that had the

811
00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:53,920
effect of you know being very determined about what we needed to do if that makes sense so

812
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:59,840
and then we did the breakout and so four or five command though was the unit that carried

813
00:57:59,840 --> 00:58:07,120
all their kit basically and we did the the yomper cross as they call it or tab on the

814
00:58:07,120 --> 00:58:13,480
way over and we literally tabbed all the way to stopped off in there two settlements teal

815
00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:19,880
inlet a place called teal in that and Douglas just to to spend the night there I suppose

816
00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:26,480
and then move on with the objective being to get to a place called Mount Mount Kent

817
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:34,240
which was quite a high feature a fair way outside so I would say two-thirds of the way

818
00:58:34,240 --> 00:58:41,040
to Stanley and we the good thing about Mount Kent is you can see all the high ground or

819
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:46,560
all the high features that were going to be our next objective if that makes sense but

820
00:58:46,560 --> 00:58:52,080
it was always on Mount Kent my my ankle flared up somewhat because six months before the

821
00:58:52,080 --> 00:59:01,440
Falklands I'd actually been down to and I've been for a run and my ankle was really really

822
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:10,000
sore so they the medical doctor at Arbroath decided that yes probably you probably need

823
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:14,160
to get your pin out because it should have come out after 18 months but being a numpty

824
00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:19,680
you know when I left the army I totally forgot about it and so when they tried to get the

825
00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:24,360
pin out they couldn't get it out so they buried it deeper but they the tissue hadn't really

826
00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:29,400
knitted so so because your feet are soaking wet in on the Falklands you know it's peat

827
00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:39,440
bog so soaking wet all the time the the ankle started to get really infected and a bit gammy

828
00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:46,800
and everything else so when we got to Mount Kent all the the rear echelon units from four

829
00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:53,080
or five commando were catching up and someone suggested that I go down and and get it wrapped

830
00:59:53,080 --> 00:59:58,520
up and get it get it you know cleaned out and everything else so nipped down there really

831
00:59:58,520 --> 01:00:06,280
and this this doctor examined it again military doctor bane of my life he decided that he

832
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:16,320
was going to evacuate me and send me back to the ship hospital ship called the uganda

833
01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:23,480
and and I just walked him and thought hold on I've just I've just walked all that way

834
01:00:23,480 --> 01:00:30,160
here just before the battles and you want to say okay so anyway so he strapped you up

835
01:00:30,160 --> 01:00:34,280
and and he said right well when you gave me a load of antibiotics and then said listen

836
01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:40,280
what would you do is go back now grab your kit and then come back down yeah no props

837
01:00:40,280 --> 01:00:47,520
haha yeah fat chance that was going to happen so I off I went to so got back to my position

838
01:00:47,520 --> 01:00:56,040
on Mount Kent the next day we actually adjusted all the artillery pieces onto a mountain called

839
01:00:56,040 --> 01:01:03,480
two sisters and bizarrely we adjusted all the so three batteries all at once is called

840
01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:08,760
a fire mission regiment so we called a fire mission regiment adjusted the guns so that

841
01:01:08,760 --> 01:01:14,520
way so when we did the attack you just had numbers that you know you read out the number

842
01:01:14,520 --> 01:01:19,920
and the guns automatically fired onto that target if that makes sense so it was all it's

843
01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:27,040
all pre pre planning your artillery and stuff and all that lot so we did that and they the

844
01:01:27,040 --> 01:01:31,560
CEO came up on the radio and went oh do you realize that's the the first fire mission

845
01:01:31,560 --> 01:01:38,720
regiment in anger since the Korean War bizarrely and and we adjusted it like you know so but

846
01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:48,520
the the next day this this doctor tracked me down and and give me a right hard time

847
01:01:48,520 --> 01:01:57,000
refused his order blah blah blah blah thankfully there was a major from our unit who was stood

848
01:01:57,000 --> 01:02:04,400
behind me and and he sided with me and said listen Hawkesley feels happy enough so he's

849
01:02:04,400 --> 01:02:11,400
going to crack on so you know thanks for your eyes but bog off and my thinking was you know

850
01:02:11,400 --> 01:02:19,720
you've walked all that way you've got three other colleagues so me going sick now is going

851
01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:24,920
to leave a massive burden for them if that makes sense bear in mind that you're now going

852
01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:30,280
into battle you know what every kid wants to do when they join the military so for me

853
01:02:30,280 --> 01:02:37,520
going going off to the you get was not even an option so yes I refused it and right decision

854
01:02:37,520 --> 01:02:42,760
yeah absolutely because when I got on the camera at the end of it all and I ended up

855
01:02:42,760 --> 01:02:49,160
ten days in the in the sick bay on antibiotics and and everything else just to because the

856
01:02:49,160 --> 01:02:54,560
ankle was completely manky and and all that sort of stuff would I would I change that

857
01:02:54,560 --> 01:03:02,800
no not at all because you know you know ultimately we were there to do a job and and and a little

858
01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:08,040
gammy ankle you know if you're going to go sick then make sure your arms been blown off

859
01:03:08,040 --> 01:03:14,040
or you know you've lost a leg and then go sick but certainly not a gammy ankle that

860
01:03:14,040 --> 01:03:20,920
you can strap up take a few tablet paracetamol you know get on with it that sort of mentality

861
01:03:20,920 --> 01:03:26,560
and and that's what we did really and it was good to see the battles went for fire commando

862
01:03:26,560 --> 01:03:33,600
lost four people we were on the and this is where I got the mindset ready that I was going

863
01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:40,200
to go special forces we were getting mortared on the start line for the attack on four five

864
01:03:40,200 --> 01:03:45,960
on two sisters but when you mean mortared on the start line there is nothing you can

865
01:03:45,960 --> 01:03:52,120
do about it and and and let you just got to sit there and just hope that that that more

866
01:03:52,120 --> 01:03:57,000
that's coming in it hasn't got your name on it and and and to be honest it was flipping

867
01:03:57,000 --> 01:04:03,560
freezing so you know my thinking was well I might as well get me head down because I

868
01:04:03,560 --> 01:04:06,840
don't know when the you know when to next time I'm going to be able to say well I don't

869
01:04:06,840 --> 01:04:12,320
know so so my my thinking really was solid just get me head down and then when we're

870
01:04:12,320 --> 01:04:17,520
good to go you know at least about an hour or two sleep like you know if that makes sense

871
01:04:17,520 --> 01:04:24,760
so if you're not by a morta but you know one side you know sat huddled and you know and

872
01:04:24,760 --> 01:04:28,400
and there's you sort of strolling away like you know getting you get your head down like

873
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:32,320
you know but but it was that you know that mentality that you know you know it is what

874
01:04:32,320 --> 01:04:36,960
it is so you know it's not a drama it can be a drama you know if a morta hits you then

875
01:04:36,960 --> 01:04:40,360
there's not a lot you're gonna there's not a lot you're gonna worry about like you know

876
01:04:40,360 --> 01:04:44,920
but but certainly you know let's get on with it so so so that really set the tone really

877
01:04:44,920 --> 01:04:51,800
for when we did the attack which which went really well and bear in mind that the four

878
01:04:51,800 --> 01:04:57,520
or five commander had lost all their mortars unfortunately they had a bit of an incident

879
01:04:57,520 --> 01:05:03,840
where they actually lost people before before the attacks so they they didn't have any mortars

880
01:05:03,840 --> 01:05:11,920
at all so they're very reliant on on artillery ourselves and also a naval naval vessel called

881
01:05:11,920 --> 01:05:18,680
the either the glaborgan i think it was um who actually fantastic they actually stayed

882
01:05:18,680 --> 01:05:25,720
online a bit too long uh supporting four or five commando a bit too long and then when

883
01:05:25,720 --> 01:05:31,200
daybreak came up they should have been gone uh but they weren't and they got they got

884
01:05:31,200 --> 01:05:37,400
picked up by a ground crew uh exorcist uh who fired and and uh killed a few people on

885
01:05:37,400 --> 01:05:44,480
it uh but to be honest what a brave decision by the captain to stay on station while four

886
01:05:44,480 --> 01:05:50,520
or five commander were still trying to take uh they these two sort of major major features

887
01:05:50,520 --> 01:05:56,400
which which made up really uh two two sisters uh along with with our artillery and stuff

888
01:05:56,400 --> 01:06:02,520
like that so um yeah so at the end of it um at the end of that that phase um it was was

889
01:06:02,520 --> 01:06:08,520
all finished we then started getting bombarded with the 155 which is the hell of a large

890
01:06:08,520 --> 01:06:14,480
artillery piece really uh but it was very it wasn't accurate fire um so when it when

891
01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:20,920
it came in close it was scary um but because they were firing they had three 155 guns and

892
01:06:20,920 --> 01:06:25,040
instead of having them all together and and firing them together which would have been

893
01:06:25,040 --> 01:06:30,520
a hell of a hell of a scary experience to be at the bottom of that they were using one

894
01:06:30,520 --> 01:06:37,760
at a time uh and just firing indiscriminately they they obviously had op's observation posts

895
01:06:37,760 --> 01:06:44,040
uh seeing uh and trying to hit targets uh but it but it was you know it was it was one

896
01:06:44,040 --> 01:06:47,360
of them hit and miss a bit like the mortars you know if your name's on it you're going

897
01:06:47,360 --> 01:06:52,280
to get it uh if not and and try not to worry about it like you know um and then really

898
01:06:52,280 --> 01:06:58,040
it was the planning for the the final phase and and literally our final phase really was

899
01:06:58,040 --> 01:07:06,200
to take a place called sapper hill um and if if this had gone ahead um without a shadow

900
01:07:06,200 --> 01:07:11,040
doubt we would have lost quite a few people because it was very flat open through mine

901
01:07:11,040 --> 01:07:18,360
fields uh very open uh no real nowhere ready to so we were we were you know we were having

902
01:07:18,360 --> 01:07:22,600
to tell four or five commander the blokes themselves listen we can't we can't support

903
01:07:22,600 --> 01:07:27,920
you as much as you want uh because we need to to retain a lot of the ammunition ready

904
01:07:27,920 --> 01:07:32,760
for the next phase if that makes sense because what they were doing was they were they were

905
01:07:32,760 --> 01:07:40,280
using the artillery as if as if it was mortars um so any close in sort of fire support um

906
01:07:40,280 --> 01:07:44,680
they were saying listen can you can you hit that machine gun with with artillery and you

907
01:07:44,680 --> 01:07:51,280
know how much say listen mate um go use your 66s or your 84 millimeters and take it out

908
01:07:51,280 --> 01:07:56,680
because we we certainly can't and there and quite bizarrely we didn't actually use our

909
01:07:56,680 --> 01:08:03,600
own guns uh on uh two sisters because of the trajectory of the the mountain uh we had

910
01:08:03,600 --> 01:08:09,080
to use a battery called eight battery um and and i'll tell you what i'll tip my hat off

911
01:08:09,080 --> 01:08:15,580
to them guys because the gunnery skills uh that they provided uh for that whole duration

912
01:08:15,580 --> 01:08:20,680
of the attack which was a day and a half ready including night time uh was just phenomenal

913
01:08:20,680 --> 01:08:28,160
um you know no not a single round out of out of place uh danger close uh just about nearly

914
01:08:28,160 --> 01:08:34,200
all all the fire missions that we did were danger close uh not the way you do it in a

915
01:08:34,200 --> 01:08:39,280
school the school of artillery uh you have uh you know saw that let's let's just get

916
01:08:39,280 --> 01:08:42,960
the round and just tell the marines listen guys keep your heads down because in about

917
01:08:42,960 --> 01:08:48,080
20 seconds six rounds are going to come down fairly close to you uh if i might and that

918
01:08:48,080 --> 01:08:52,440
and that's how we played it um it was all it was all done you know off a cuff uh just

919
01:08:52,440 --> 01:08:56,600
get on with it type uh type scenario like you know but but the marines came up at the

920
01:08:56,600 --> 01:09:03,400
end uh very grateful really for the the artillery support got ready for the next one and then

921
01:09:03,400 --> 01:09:11,400
obviously the word got around that they uh they surrendered uh so um and thankfully so

922
01:09:11,400 --> 01:09:19,200
we ended up on on two on um on sapper hill and and uh just grateful uh that we weren't

923
01:09:19,200 --> 01:09:23,040
fighting to get there because it would have been it would have would have been touch and

924
01:09:23,040 --> 01:09:28,640
go i would say um for quite a few people um but then and then you know and then it all

925
01:09:28,640 --> 01:09:34,720
sort of finished really quick and next minute we're on the uh uh we're on the uh camber

926
01:09:34,720 --> 01:09:40,600
uh heading back and obviously i went to the sick bay uh i couldn't believe the state of

927
01:09:40,600 --> 01:09:45,240
the end course so so everybody sort of drinking celebrating blah blah blah and i'm sat in

928
01:09:45,240 --> 01:09:50,480
the hospital and thankfully i had a television uh so i happened to watch the and they the

929
01:09:50,480 --> 01:09:56,120
football world cup had started and bizarrely one of the first games that was on was argentina

930
01:09:56,120 --> 01:10:00,280
because they were they they were the defending champions and they and i remember it really

931
01:10:00,280 --> 01:10:07,960
well but they played belgium in their very first game and lost so not only lost the first

932
01:10:07,960 --> 01:10:15,560
game in the so yeah so it was good so you know would i would i have changed it because

933
01:10:15,560 --> 01:10:20,960
of my ankle no not at all um you know it's uh you know we you know we did what we sat

934
01:10:20,960 --> 01:10:27,120
out to do uh quite happy with it um ankle yeah it was a bit of a mess but you know i

935
01:10:27,120 --> 01:10:33,600
was now going to get six weeks r and r uh so plenty of time really to to recover uh and

936
01:10:33,600 --> 01:10:38,680
i bear in mind that on the uganda you're getting proper people that are being hurt seriously

937
01:10:38,680 --> 01:10:44,320
you know being shot been blown up uh lost limbs and all that sort of things so me turning

938
01:10:44,320 --> 01:10:50,840
up with a gammy ankle no uh sorry but that's just not the that's not not not the way you

939
01:10:50,840 --> 01:10:56,760
know in my mind uh how you come out of a battle uh if that makes sense you know you you come

940
01:10:56,760 --> 01:11:01,480
out of a battle because you you literally can't move or you know somewhat seriously

941
01:11:01,480 --> 01:11:08,120
wrong and you can you can still drag yourself around with a gammy ankle um yeah talk to

942
01:11:08,120 --> 01:11:14,160
me about the civilians for example on the camera that went into war because i think

943
01:11:14,160 --> 01:11:17,640
this is another under two two things seem to be under discussed firstly i think the

944
01:11:17,640 --> 01:11:23,320
british people and i was god how old was i then i think eight when you guys went to war

945
01:11:23,320 --> 01:11:27,760
um you know so it was initially this you know heroic thing but then they'd be like oh but

946
01:11:27,760 --> 01:11:32,440
they were up against a bunch of you know argentinian farm boys and it was downplaying the enemy

947
01:11:32,440 --> 01:11:36,960
and then you hear the real you know soldiers and and marines that i had on the show and

948
01:11:36,960 --> 01:11:40,760
it's like yeah there was an element of that but there were also argentinian special forces

949
01:11:40,760 --> 01:11:44,560
on there i mean there was a whole spectrum but i think one of the most powerful things

950
01:11:44,560 --> 01:11:50,520
aside from what you and your fellow you know military members did in uniform was the heroism

951
01:11:50,520 --> 01:11:54,960
of some of these people that were a cruise you know entertainers like wendy that i've

952
01:11:54,960 --> 01:11:58,680
heard a few times so just talk to me about that before we transition to the special forces

953
01:11:58,680 --> 01:12:04,520
yeah i mean i mean bear in mind that you know military guys you volunteer uh to to go into

954
01:12:04,520 --> 01:12:11,640
combat these people were seconded um even even on the lsls you know we had a lot of

955
01:12:11,640 --> 01:12:18,480
chinese uh honk not chinese but hong kong um people that were doing they worked in the

956
01:12:18,480 --> 01:12:24,100
canteen and the laundry and all that sort of thing uh so really um you know expectations

957
01:12:24,100 --> 01:12:28,800
for them was wasn't that they should be going to war uh but they did and they always with

958
01:12:28,800 --> 01:12:34,440
a big smile um and i think they did they i think because you've got all the military

959
01:12:34,440 --> 01:12:39,560
around here um it was for them it was you know we're not going to let the military down

960
01:12:39,560 --> 01:12:46,240
which is quite a bizarre um thing like when we went over to the cambera when it was on

961
01:12:46,240 --> 01:12:53,680
um when it was at ascension island uh really to go and drink some alcohol so we we sort

962
01:12:53,680 --> 01:12:58,880
of stuck ourselves on there and there and and locked ourselves in a bar uh just because

963
01:12:58,880 --> 01:13:02,600
it's the first time we'd had proper drink if that makes sense and but the people would

964
01:13:02,600 --> 01:13:06,640
you know all they the staff and that was just fantastic and and the same is coming back

965
01:13:06,640 --> 01:13:11,520
you know because i was in the hospital you know they just couldn't do enough for you

966
01:13:11,520 --> 01:13:16,880
uh even to the extent that um you know i was on antibiotics and a couple of lads came in

967
01:13:16,880 --> 01:13:22,000
and brought in a you know a couple of bottles of beer or a couple cans of beer and the nurse

968
01:13:22,000 --> 01:13:25,840
was there and you know yeah crack on like you know all we'll do is we'll double your

969
01:13:25,840 --> 01:13:33,200
dose counteract i mean honestly you know for military is slightly different because you're

970
01:13:33,200 --> 01:13:38,800
you know that's what you're there for you volunteer but when you're seconded um that's

971
01:13:38,800 --> 01:13:44,320
a whole different uh ball game like you know but but you know nobody there was no negativity

972
01:13:44,320 --> 01:13:50,720
at all um it was you know they it was just that culture i think and and it was all part

973
01:13:50,720 --> 01:13:55,280
of history i suppose you know we're off down there we're all maggie's maggie's sort of troops

974
01:13:55,280 --> 01:14:01,680
like you know and everything else and uh and we're off to uh to get our island back like

975
01:14:01,680 --> 01:14:09,280
you know so yeah now my my hat goes off really anyone that's seconded to go to a war um good

976
01:14:09,280 --> 01:14:15,040
effort um you know different from military and you're right about the you know the argentinians

977
01:14:15,040 --> 01:14:23,440
uh i i i did a podcast with a an arthur an argentinian um major uh talking about it and

978
01:14:23,440 --> 01:14:29,120
no animosity at all um you know because we're soldiers you know soldier soldier you know and

979
01:14:30,160 --> 01:14:34,880
we were both there to do to do the same thing you know he was there to to try and defend what he

980
01:14:34,880 --> 01:14:42,400
thought was his island uh we were there to retake what we what we now know is our island uh so

981
01:14:42,400 --> 01:14:47,920
you know at the end of it no animosity you know i i love the argentinians to bits um hate them

982
01:14:47,920 --> 01:14:54,240
when they play football uh fantastic rugby team and everything else but but personally uh no

983
01:14:54,240 --> 01:15:00,560
absolutely no animosity uh to the argentinian especially the military you know these these

984
01:15:00,560 --> 01:15:06,400
people especially the pilots extremely brave individuals uh guys the young lads on the on

985
01:15:06,400 --> 01:15:13,520
the ground some of them uh conscripts um were more were more really about surviving the cold

986
01:15:13,520 --> 01:15:19,280
weather as opposed to fighting but i tell you what they didn't uh they didn't capitulate uh you know

987
01:15:19,280 --> 01:15:25,120
they they they fought up to the last or the last bit really and and it was only until they realized

988
01:15:25,120 --> 01:15:30,000
that they were going to be overrun that they actually bug out like you know and as as most

989
01:15:30,000 --> 01:15:36,000
people would do like you know so yeah how after them civilians argentinians yeah no no issues with

990
01:15:36,000 --> 01:15:41,760
them at all beautiful well when i think of that conflict and i think of souls we plane and like

991
01:15:41,760 --> 01:15:46,560
you said wales and some of these these training areas that you worked on before you can see how

992
01:15:46,560 --> 01:15:50,800
that was a kind of apples to apples and probably prepared you very well all the long hikes etc

993
01:15:51,520 --> 01:15:56,800
now you're in the special forces you know role and you're deploying in the middle east very

994
01:15:56,800 --> 01:16:02,000
different you know topography and culture and everything so what was the contrast between

995
01:16:02,000 --> 01:16:07,680
conflict on the falkland islands and then this this you know high tier one unit that you're with

996
01:16:07,680 --> 01:16:14,720
now in a completely different part of the world yeah different world and a lot of it is the assets

997
01:16:14,720 --> 01:16:20,000
that you have available the intelligence that you have available the equipment that you have

998
01:16:20,000 --> 01:16:26,240
available and also you're working with you know class individuals you know people uh that put

999
01:16:26,240 --> 01:16:32,640
them through the rigors of a course and and got them so you know you're talking top individuals

1000
01:16:32,640 --> 01:16:38,960
who you're fighting with like you know on the on the side of so yeah slightly different um but in

1001
01:16:38,960 --> 01:16:45,840
in a way um you know i i joined special forces i suppose because i wanted to see out the rest of my

1002
01:16:45,840 --> 01:16:52,640
career um you know getting stuck in and and not being in the camp i i was never a very good

1003
01:16:52,640 --> 01:16:58,880
camp soldier um you know some of the lads will probably remind me of the fact when i was up in

1004
01:16:58,880 --> 01:17:05,200
our both always used to get picked up because my very very wasn't properly you know my cap

1005
01:17:05,200 --> 01:17:11,280
badge wasn't around by my eye it was more around the ear my lightweight trousers were always

1006
01:17:11,280 --> 01:17:17,040
slightly different color uh to everyone else's and yeah i just you know that that camp soldiering

1007
01:17:17,040 --> 01:17:23,040
thing it wasn't for me so it was obvious that um you know the best way around that really is is to

1008
01:17:23,040 --> 01:17:28,560
move on like you know and which is what we did but yeah i i found uh special forces slightly

1009
01:17:28,560 --> 01:17:38,160
different i i was quite unlucky really uh the very first uh campaign i suppose uh was the first golf

1010
01:17:38,160 --> 01:17:45,120
war um but i was in a squadron that should never have been there um you know i was in b squadron

1011
01:17:45,120 --> 01:17:50,080
um so they they had the three patrols that went out rather one zero two zero three zero

1012
01:17:50,080 --> 01:17:55,680
uh but actually b squadron should never have been in theater you know we'd just been on the anti-terror

1013
01:17:55,680 --> 01:18:03,200
team uh in uh in hereford g squadron uh bazzali who were going to be taken over from b squadron

1014
01:18:03,200 --> 01:18:10,080
g squadron were in in the middle east uh doing all the build-up really um and were and were good to

1015
01:18:10,080 --> 01:18:16,640
go uh you know i mean they're fully fully equipped and everything else and then uh end of or mid

1016
01:18:16,640 --> 01:18:22,800
december i think it was we swapped over uh and then suddenly g squadron on the anti-terrorist team

1017
01:18:22,800 --> 01:18:31,120
uh and b squadron you know no you know no equipment blah blah blah so i i suppose i was fortunate

1018
01:18:31,120 --> 01:18:40,000
uh me and uh seven other guys got sent up to the u.a. on a training task uh really uh and it was uh

1019
01:18:40,000 --> 01:18:47,440
to keep favor with the uh u.a. government uh so we we were doing bodyguard training uh for their

1020
01:18:47,440 --> 01:18:55,520
special forces um and it really it was more of a thank you to the u.a. government for letting us use

1021
01:18:55,520 --> 01:19:01,520
their their assets their their airports and uh and all that sort of stuff for they when they move up

1022
01:19:01,520 --> 01:19:07,840
into saudi arabia and everything else uh so so just before the grand war started we we automatically

1023
01:19:07,840 --> 01:19:13,600
assumed that when the war was going to start we would move up as an ink man patrol and and join

1024
01:19:14,320 --> 01:19:18,880
uh one of the squadrons up there or b squadron you know because they're trying to find a job

1025
01:19:18,880 --> 01:19:25,120
uh but the two squadrons that were deployed were a and d uh they had all the assets all the equipment

1026
01:19:25,120 --> 01:19:32,880
and off they went and and blah blah blah um but then they the day before the air war started the

1027
01:19:32,880 --> 01:19:39,120
co of 22 came up uh and said listen guys you know apologies but you're going to be staying here uh

1028
01:19:39,120 --> 01:19:46,400
you're going to be watching the whole war on tv cnn uh because we need you to stay here um to keep

1029
01:19:46,400 --> 01:19:52,000
to keep to to keep the face ready with the u.e. government as a thank you you can't really just

1030
01:19:52,000 --> 01:19:57,600
say right sorry guys but we're off now uh and leave of course half finished uh so that was a

1031
01:19:57,600 --> 01:20:02,960
bit galling uh to be told that uh if i may but at least you know at least we knew we had a job and

1032
01:20:02,960 --> 01:20:08,960
it was you know we knew what we were doing uh but it was it was galling watching everything pan out

1033
01:20:08,960 --> 01:20:14,400
on cnn uh on a on a thing like you know so the the boys are getting shot up and and we're losing

1034
01:20:14,400 --> 01:20:20,560
people here and we're sat in the u.e. uh in the officer's mess or watching it on a on a television

1035
01:20:20,560 --> 01:20:26,880
light you know it's that galling yeah uh but to be honest b squadron should should we have been in

1036
01:20:26,880 --> 01:20:32,000
theater no uh it should have been what what really should have happened by right common sense should

1037
01:20:32,000 --> 01:20:37,120
have applied b squadron should have stayed on the anti-terrorist team and done another six month

1038
01:20:37,120 --> 01:20:43,920
rotation and uh g squadron because they're fully fully equipped they've done all this training

1039
01:20:43,920 --> 01:20:48,960
they've done all the you know they can deploy with the other two squadrons um that that's

1040
01:20:49,680 --> 01:20:54,400
that should have what but it didn't uh so unfortunately b were we're just hunting

1041
01:20:55,280 --> 01:21:02,000
looking for jobs uh which which i i didn't really agree with uh but thankfully i you know um we were

1042
01:21:02,000 --> 01:21:08,320
sent out and we were doing a training task up in the u.e. uh came back from that really and

1043
01:21:08,320 --> 01:21:13,680
better mind that you know we'd lost a few people uh so that was a grim thing really you know coming

1044
01:21:13,680 --> 01:21:19,760
back and having to bury uh some of the you know and i carried the coffin uh of a young young

1045
01:21:19,760 --> 01:21:27,680
lad called bob consiglio uh who's an ex-raw marine uh literally only been in the squadron um about a

1046
01:21:27,680 --> 01:21:35,040
year and then we had them we then the gulf war started and unfortunately he he was killed rest

1047
01:21:35,040 --> 01:21:42,480
in peace um in uh in part of bravo two zero so so carrying the coffins we am and we it was a sad day

1048
01:21:42,480 --> 01:21:50,560
because it was three coffins um leg lane uh was another one rest in peace and vince phillips uh

1049
01:21:50,560 --> 01:21:55,360
again rest in peace you know and i just just heartbreaking ready it's the first time really

1050
01:21:55,360 --> 01:22:02,640
i've actually welled up um but when when we when we had the coffins and we were about to leave the

1051
01:22:02,640 --> 01:22:10,560
the church uh i think it was vince's one of vince's young youngsters uh cried out uh daddy and you

1052
01:22:10,560 --> 01:22:16,720
could see because we were the rear uh coffin you could just see all the coffins sort of moving

1053
01:22:16,720 --> 01:22:22,640
jerking um where people were sort of you know we're all you know hardcore individuals but

1054
01:22:22,640 --> 01:22:29,680
you know when you when you hear that um yeah sad sad sad day really quite bizarrely um so it was

1055
01:22:29,680 --> 01:22:35,360
st martin's church and and there's a main road directly opposite as you come out the main the

1056
01:22:35,360 --> 01:22:43,680
main doors uh into the open there was a main road and there and the press decided to turn up

1057
01:22:43,680 --> 01:22:48,960
so you had you know sun newspaper and all the other half which sort of rocks up and then what

1058
01:22:48,960 --> 01:22:55,760
they did was they decided to put a um a sort of um they they built a little platform for them

1059
01:22:56,320 --> 01:23:00,320
on the other side of the road uh on the pavement just so they can stand up there and

1060
01:23:00,320 --> 01:23:09,120
and take pictures and on cue uh the sas had uh organized a articulated truck

1061
01:23:10,720 --> 01:23:18,640
to break down directly in front of the doors if that makes sense so that so that they just blocked

1062
01:23:19,280 --> 01:23:25,280
as we came out uh so they so i think one on that one of the sun one of the yeah because we're on

1063
01:23:25,280 --> 01:23:32,320
the front page of the sun but they they sprinted around obviously they sussed out what was going on

1064
01:23:32,320 --> 01:23:38,320
but by then the two front coffins had already gone around the side and we were the last coffin so

1065
01:23:38,320 --> 01:23:43,840
they managed to get a quick picture there just of the the back end of back end of us if that makes

1066
01:23:43,840 --> 01:23:49,760
sense and uh and thankfully uh no no facial pictures like you know um because that was on

1067
01:23:49,760 --> 01:23:54,160
the front page of the sun the next day like you know which was quite annoying uh but yeah i just

1068
01:23:54,160 --> 01:24:00,240
thought a bit of um a bit of lateral thinking there by the regiment that's brilliant uh but but

1069
01:24:00,240 --> 01:24:06,400
you know dropping the coffins in you know yeah sad sad day uh to to lose colleagues especially

1070
01:24:06,400 --> 01:24:12,720
colleagues that have only been in a year uh or you know a year and uh you know legacy was on my

1071
01:24:12,720 --> 01:24:19,680
selection uh vince uh vince you know uh been in quite a few years really really good lad

1072
01:24:19,680 --> 01:24:25,200
they're really well liked and everything else and uh yeah it just seemed a total waste really uh if

1073
01:24:25,200 --> 01:24:31,520
that makes sense but uh realities have have been in the s.s i suppose uh and uh you know the next

1074
01:24:31,520 --> 01:24:40,240
thing you just get on with whatever you need to do uh there's um quite bizarrely um the bob consiglio

1075
01:24:40,640 --> 01:24:46,880
uh was royal marine uh and in them days if he was a royal marine transfer into the s.s you had to

1076
01:24:46,880 --> 01:24:53,600
literally leave the marines and then you had to be administered by the parachute regiment

1077
01:24:53,600 --> 01:25:03,440
while you did selection and so on um on his on the coffin lid uh it had bob consiglio parachute

1078
01:25:03,440 --> 01:25:10,000
regiment and he wasn't parachute regiment he was raw marines and uh and thankfully uh there was a

1079
01:25:10,000 --> 01:25:16,720
lot of raw marines turned up at the funeral and one of them took his bury off and and dropped it

1080
01:25:16,720 --> 01:25:22,880
perfectly on top of that that plaque uh so he had a green green berry on it and then a few of the

1081
01:25:22,880 --> 01:25:28,960
other lads did exactly the same you know they took they which i thought was uh a really nice touch

1082
01:25:28,960 --> 01:25:35,920
by the by the marine's light you know if that makes sense and a complete ass um cock up ready

1083
01:25:35,920 --> 01:25:43,360
by by the regiment um having this plaque on there um parachute regiment uh he wasn't he was raw

1084
01:25:43,360 --> 01:25:48,400
marines light you know so uh good on the booties for for for doing that for bob light you know

1085
01:25:48,400 --> 01:25:54,960
uh if that makes sense so yeah sad sad time but you know it is what it is and then you crack on

1086
01:25:54,960 --> 01:26:01,280
and really and our next our next sort of uh major conflict no for me anyway was was doing all the

1087
01:26:01,280 --> 01:26:07,440
undercover stuff over in northern arnold before we jump into that i just want to kind of hit a

1088
01:26:07,440 --> 01:26:13,360
tangent for a moment when i look at and i'm now looking through you know american eyes obviously

1089
01:26:13,360 --> 01:26:20,880
i've been here for 22 years now um i look at for example the drug companies and you look at america

1090
01:26:20,880 --> 01:26:28,480
and as we sit here now um america is either is excuse me 70 obese or overweight and then sadly

1091
01:26:28,480 --> 01:26:34,480
when i go home i see the uk is is trying to catch him up it's it's heartbreaking but you know unlike

1092
01:26:34,480 --> 01:26:40,640
the the uh us the uk still is hanging on to the nhs which i think is an incredible system but you

1093
01:26:40,640 --> 01:26:45,120
got to support it properly and fund it and get behind it and keep britain's healthy so they don't

1094
01:26:45,120 --> 01:26:50,320
use it very much but over here there's no checks and balances and we have a profit-based health

1095
01:26:50,320 --> 01:26:55,840
care system so really it's promoting ill health you know it's legalized drug dealing basically

1096
01:26:55,840 --> 01:27:00,560
is what it is the fatter and sicker people are the more money these companies make and don't get me

1097
01:27:00,560 --> 01:27:05,120
wrong i was a paramedic for years you know there's some great drugs that save lives you know anesthesia

1098
01:27:05,120 --> 01:27:10,640
all these things that we need but chronic disease management has been abused horrendously it's the

1099
01:27:10,640 --> 01:27:16,000
same with war when you have people who make uniforms and mres and missiles and planes and

1100
01:27:16,000 --> 01:27:22,240
all the things there's obviously a pull from some lobbyists to say well let's keep in conflicts you

1101
01:27:22,240 --> 01:27:26,880
know i'm making a lot of money when we're at war but that's at the expense of the very men that you

1102
01:27:26,880 --> 01:27:31,440
just talked about and of course there are times where we cannot turn our back i mean world war

1103
01:27:31,440 --> 01:27:36,960
two is obviously going to be a great example of that what is your perspective of that checks and

1104
01:27:36,960 --> 01:27:42,880
balances to ensure that we only go to war when we absolutely have to and all diplomacy has failed

1105
01:27:44,080 --> 01:27:50,480
yeah that's uh it's a difficult one especially especially being in special forces if that makes

1106
01:27:50,480 --> 01:28:01,280
sense because you're there ready to to do what you have to do um so oh you too yeah so when

1107
01:28:01,280 --> 01:28:07,600
when um when when really when you're um uh and you know in this in this special forces sort of

1108
01:28:07,600 --> 01:28:16,000
sphere of things um you don't really question uh although morally um you um sort of think yeah okay

1109
01:28:16,000 --> 01:28:22,560
but but generally um if there's a job to do you just just get on and get on with it like you know

1110
01:28:22,560 --> 01:28:28,480
and try not to get involved in the uh the politics side of it slightly different now that you're out

1111
01:28:29,360 --> 01:28:35,840
um because you can be a bit more forthright but but while you're serving uh slightly different and

1112
01:28:35,840 --> 01:28:42,800
and bizarrely um people always assume that they the sas are the cutthroat you know the the assassins

1113
01:28:42,800 --> 01:28:48,560
of the government and and stuff like that um which is actually a false narrative really um because

1114
01:28:48,960 --> 01:28:56,480
guys will question um and and if people think that it's the wrong thing to do uh then they they won't

1115
01:28:56,480 --> 01:29:02,960
carry out uh you know they'll they'll push it off the chain and say listen this is bone uh you know

1116
01:29:02,960 --> 01:29:09,200
it's not not feasible or you know let's think about doing it uh doing it another way and and

1117
01:29:09,200 --> 01:29:15,920
and and that's what i found out about the sas very quickly is there um that it's not like the

1118
01:29:15,920 --> 01:29:21,520
normal military where you just follow a structure and you know the officer says this and this is

1119
01:29:21,520 --> 01:29:27,360
the way we're doing it uh we don't the the sas don't you know we we you know we sit down and

1120
01:29:27,360 --> 01:29:33,600
it's not having a chinese parliament and the reason being is the selection process brings up some

1121
01:29:33,600 --> 01:29:38,640
massive amount of experience um if that makes sense and you've got guys that you know maybe

1122
01:29:38,640 --> 01:29:44,560
you've done 10 years uh doing a certain job and we're about to you know having to use that asset

1123
01:29:44,560 --> 01:29:51,280
really and a mindset to do this job and and he's literally he's only been in the regiment 10 minutes

1124
01:29:51,280 --> 01:29:57,360
and and and you're right john you know what do you think you know you were you're a tanky you're

1125
01:29:57,360 --> 01:30:03,040
you know give us your opinion you know how how should we go about it like you know and and and

1126
01:30:03,040 --> 01:30:10,240
and it's great it's just a really mature attitude of having as opposed to being the old tick tock

1127
01:30:10,240 --> 01:30:14,880
tick tock you know this is how we're doing it lighter breast you know let's go for it type

1128
01:30:14,880 --> 01:30:20,000
thing it's uh especially quite refreshing and it's one of the reasons why people wanted to go there

1129
01:30:20,000 --> 01:30:25,440
in the first place like you know it's very to very mature attitude but believe you may if guys

1130
01:30:26,000 --> 01:30:31,120
certainly feel that yeah that is not the right thing to do uh then they won't do it uh you know

1131
01:30:31,120 --> 01:30:37,520
they'll they'll they'll do it in a certain other way and they'll actually tell the bosses listen

1132
01:30:37,520 --> 01:30:42,480
we're doing it that way we're going to be we're going to do it this way if it makes sense so so

1133
01:30:42,480 --> 01:30:48,880
it's not the stereotype cutthroat you know do this and it's not not like that at all

1134
01:30:50,240 --> 01:30:55,120
you used the phrase camp soldier earlier which i can totally relate to because i've never understood

1135
01:30:55,120 --> 01:31:01,040
how i could be you know up to my elbows in blood in some horrible wreck or fighting fire and then

1136
01:31:01,040 --> 01:31:05,840
they turn around and tell me that i gotta wear my shiny uniform and shiny shoes like those two just

1137
01:31:05,840 --> 01:31:10,480
don't go hand in hand yes when we're going to do some publicity event or a promotion event and i get

1138
01:31:10,480 --> 01:31:15,760
it more often than not sadly i wore all the fancy clothes and funerals and i fucking can't stand

1139
01:31:15,760 --> 01:31:20,240
bagpipes to this day because there's so many of them but uh you know but it is it's you know you

1140
01:31:20,240 --> 01:31:26,080
you do a job for a while and then i think some people just are able to step back and go what

1141
01:31:26,080 --> 01:31:31,040
why are we doing this this way you know and there's numerous examples but then you become a disruptor

1142
01:31:31,040 --> 01:31:36,480
and and so i can see the attraction to the special forces not saying i'm a tier one level firefighter

1143
01:31:36,480 --> 01:31:41,920
but just the way i think after a while is you know if if you're not able to make different a

1144
01:31:41,920 --> 01:31:46,880
difference within then you have to be outside and you have to disrupt and shake the tree so i think

1145
01:31:46,880 --> 01:31:52,480
that's great but i think that where change also comes is when people have humility and you used

1146
01:31:52,480 --> 01:31:56,880
a beautiful example there you know someone's been in the unit for a month but they've got 10 years

1147
01:31:56,880 --> 01:32:03,680
working in tank division or whatever it is that's a humility to say you've just got here but we

1148
01:32:03,680 --> 01:32:09,040
we respect your skill set where but there's a lot of arrogance and ego in the fire services like we

1149
01:32:09,040 --> 01:32:13,840
don't want to hear where you came from shut up this is the way we do it and that only adds to the

1150
01:32:13,840 --> 01:32:18,400
machine you know having the humility to say oh you were you were a builder and we've got this

1151
01:32:18,400 --> 01:32:22,640
unusual roof that we've got to cut in the middle of this fire i want to know you know what is this

1152
01:32:22,640 --> 01:32:26,080
roof safe to go on where should i cut you know i mean these are these are things i think that

1153
01:32:26,720 --> 01:32:32,080
i think that's maturity i think humility comes from maturity and arrogance is actually immaturity

1154
01:32:32,960 --> 01:32:38,880
yeah absolutely you know we we work very well with delta for delta um over in the states and

1155
01:32:38,880 --> 01:32:44,480
if i may say purely because that you know delta is actually based on sas um not the other way around

1156
01:32:44,480 --> 01:32:52,000
sas is based on that i make sure people know that too and uh and and very much very much aligned

1157
01:32:52,000 --> 01:32:59,040
very much the same mindset uh and someone always said to me uh who is the the best tier one unit

1158
01:32:59,040 --> 01:33:06,400
in the world without a shadow doubt sas and and i don't say that lightly but i say that is because

1159
01:33:06,400 --> 01:33:12,640
of the uh the diversity of the roles that we have to do uh which unfortunately delta delta don't you

1160
01:33:12,640 --> 01:33:19,760
know delta don't do the anti-terrorist team for instance we do um and other bits and bobs and the

1161
01:33:20,480 --> 01:33:27,520
the other question that keeps coming up about uh delta and um seal team six for instance um for me

1162
01:33:27,520 --> 01:33:34,480
delta every every time and the reason being is they're like us they are military people through

1163
01:33:34,480 --> 01:33:40,880
and through before they even think about doing delta you know these are these are seasoned

1164
01:33:40,880 --> 01:33:47,200
veterans from the airborne from the green berets special all you know all that type of area so

1165
01:33:47,200 --> 01:33:53,440
you know hardcore individuals before they even think about doing the the delta course and it's

1166
01:33:53,440 --> 01:34:00,640
exactly the same as as the regiment like you know so i think they they the top tier uh to obviously

1167
01:34:00,640 --> 01:34:06,400
for us we've got the sbs as well which are very akin to the sas because we do a joint election

1168
01:34:07,360 --> 01:34:14,480
but but without a shadow doubt you know sas tier one you know and i think if you were high known

1169
01:34:14,480 --> 01:34:22,560
heart if you were to ask delta and seal team six uh they would they would you know they would hate

1170
01:34:22,560 --> 01:34:29,680
to say it uh but just the diversity of the role and and just to give you an example so anti-terrorist

1171
01:34:29,680 --> 01:34:35,600
team uh six months come off that go to northern ireland go your hair nice and long two years on

1172
01:34:35,600 --> 01:34:41,440
the cover come back from that shave your hair off straight over the bozz near uh do some over there

1173
01:34:41,440 --> 01:34:48,720
come back from there uh go and join mi5 uh for two years massive dive you know in that little

1174
01:34:48,720 --> 01:34:57,440
cycle uh other two tier one units don't do that uh so for me yeah that's it i gotta say i i don't

1175
01:34:57,440 --> 01:35:03,200
know if you know who captain dale die is he's a marine that got into the the films and so he taught

1176
01:35:03,200 --> 01:35:08,720
the cast of you know saving private ryan bander brothers platoon and he i did stunts the whole

1177
01:35:08,720 --> 01:35:14,000
time i was a firefighter so my side gig and i worked on a stunt show in japan before i i moved

1178
01:35:14,000 --> 01:35:18,160
to the u.s and we were sitting after a little kind of mini boot camp that he gave us for the

1179
01:35:18,160 --> 01:35:24,320
same reason to train actors um and we were asking him you know just a bunch of questions about his

1180
01:35:24,320 --> 01:35:29,600
uh his service and and i forget how it came up but it was literally that you know who were the best

1181
01:35:29,600 --> 01:35:34,720
in a military you know war fighters in the world and he had a lot of admiration for the you know

1182
01:35:34,720 --> 01:35:39,200
the marines the general american forces but he said at the very top of your talking special forces

1183
01:35:39,200 --> 01:35:45,440
special operations he said the sas so and that's from captain dale die absolutely i i've got a lot

1184
01:35:45,440 --> 01:35:51,440
of time for for delta um we went over there uh before they did the the more traditional thing

1185
01:35:51,440 --> 01:35:58,640
but we we went over there to help them um try and try and do arctic warfare in wyoming of all places

1186
01:35:59,760 --> 01:36:05,280
but they're fantastic blokes like you know and and they are very much there there's the same mindset

1187
01:36:05,760 --> 01:36:13,440
uh they they do joint operations nowadays or they did do afghanistan iraq uh joint operations uh the

1188
01:36:13,440 --> 01:36:20,160
american military would uh the american government would actually trust the sas to do operations uh

1189
01:36:20,160 --> 01:36:26,800
and stuff like that so because they're very much aligned uh if i may say so but you know don't get

1190
01:36:26,800 --> 01:36:32,640
me wrong you know you know sail team six obviously do their their thing as well but with their sail

1191
01:36:32,640 --> 01:36:39,520
teams as they'll they'll you know they're they're navy they're navy that do a special course um but

1192
01:36:39,520 --> 01:36:47,920
they call their navy um whereas a delta lad you know has probably been 10 years as a green berry

1193
01:36:47,920 --> 01:36:54,880
like you know and before he even thinks about doing it so yeah you know for me america delta

1194
01:36:56,000 --> 01:37:02,320
every time we talked about mi5 we're all waiting on bated breath to see the next james bond is

1195
01:37:02,320 --> 01:37:08,880
going to be so talk to me about i mean obviously this is a complete you know shallow overview but

1196
01:37:09,600 --> 01:37:14,880
what is what is the role or you know what what is the diverse set of skills of someone working

1197
01:37:14,880 --> 01:37:20,800
in that world versus the uh the hollywood or no it's not hollywood pinewood studios action hero

1198
01:37:20,800 --> 01:37:27,280
that we all grew up with yeah it's funny because well i i personally don't know because mi6 is cia

1199
01:37:28,160 --> 01:37:35,360
mi5 fbi uh that's a simple way of doing it uh so we we got attached to mi5 really because it's

1200
01:37:35,360 --> 01:37:42,240
homeland security and and uh really just advisors i suppose um but they mi5 don't carry weapons

1201
01:37:42,240 --> 01:37:48,800
uh there was a program over here called spooks um i'm actually watching it now actually because

1202
01:37:48,800 --> 01:37:54,160
i'm because i'm really bored so i'm on uh i'm on netflix watching spooks not netflix on big bc

1203
01:37:54,160 --> 01:37:59,040
i play uh watching spooks and spooks you know they're all carrying weapons well they don't

1204
01:37:59,040 --> 01:38:06,080
carry weapons uh on uk mainland if and that's why really um we were working with the uh the

1205
01:38:06,080 --> 01:38:12,400
wrong people um and uh and when i sort of finished for two years there i said listen we need to be

1206
01:38:12,400 --> 01:38:16,640
working with either special branch or the anti-terrorist team um just so you know you've

1207
01:38:16,640 --> 01:38:26,480
got a weapon uh stuff like that but mi mi6 mi5 really uh initially uh they're uh they've got a

1208
01:38:26,480 --> 01:38:31,520
lot on their plate they're very underfunded on demand uh not very well paid to be quite frank

1209
01:38:31,520 --> 01:38:39,120
uh they've got a lot on their plate so their main role is surveillance really uh first and foremost

1210
01:38:39,600 --> 01:38:44,480
um and and picking up intelligence on on the the bad people that are coming in the country

1211
01:38:44,960 --> 01:38:50,880
um and and without a shadow doubt you know they're i would say they're losing the war

1212
01:38:50,880 --> 01:38:55,600
because you there are so many people getting through the loop now because we've got open

1213
01:38:55,600 --> 01:39:01,760
borders you know jumping a boat you're welcomed over here uh they'll put you in a hotel uh you

1214
01:39:01,760 --> 01:39:06,320
know even though you haven't got a passport but bizarrely you've got a brand new phone

1215
01:39:06,880 --> 01:39:14,240
um you know and you're all fighting age um but they're all welcomed uh which i i totally

1216
01:39:14,240 --> 01:39:19,520
disagree with uh if that makes sense so but that puts a lot of pressure really um later on

1217
01:39:19,520 --> 01:39:26,320
uh on what mi5 can actually achieve mi6 slightly different uh james bond thing but they're they're

1218
01:39:26,320 --> 01:39:33,120
the ones that work abroad uh and and do the the gatherings within these two organizations you

1219
01:39:33,120 --> 01:39:38,800
know they have different departments and we were attached to the surveillance department for mi5

1220
01:39:39,360 --> 01:39:44,320
uh you also have all the desk officers all the clever people that come out of universe they work

1221
01:39:44,320 --> 01:39:51,440
at their headquarters desk officers all that type of thing and also you know tapping up sources

1222
01:39:52,160 --> 01:40:00,960
for intelligence so so quite quite quite um sort of diverse um role uh but but to put it in perspective

1223
01:40:00,960 --> 01:40:09,840
mi5 fbi cia mi6 i was talking to one of my um friends who was former armed police unit in the

1224
01:40:09,840 --> 01:40:16,400
uk um asking about the troubles that we're seeing at the moment you know and obviously nothing is

1225
01:40:16,400 --> 01:40:21,200
black and white it's ever apparent that there's a group of extremists it doesn't matter if it's a

1226
01:40:21,200 --> 01:40:26,400
football game or you know this horrendous attack the moment there's an excuse they're going to go

1227
01:40:26,400 --> 01:40:30,560
and cause trouble and it's you know my brothers and sisters that are paying the price the police

1228
01:40:30,560 --> 01:40:34,880
officers the firefighters they're the ones that are holding the line and he was very you know he

1229
01:40:34,880 --> 01:40:39,200
kind of underlined hey yes you see some of them are in riot gear you've got police officers wearing

1230
01:40:39,200 --> 01:40:43,200
regular street gear no helmet holding the line against these thugs while they're trying to burn

1231
01:40:43,200 --> 01:40:48,240
down mosques or you know whatever it is that they're doing but he said the tension the underlying

1232
01:40:48,240 --> 01:40:52,880
tension is coming from what you just alluded to so talk to me about that because there's a middle

1233
01:40:52,880 --> 01:40:56,960
ground of course you know britain's always been a very altruistic compassionate country and i always

1234
01:40:56,960 --> 01:41:02,000
point out that we grew up with john craven's news round and blue peter and live aid and comic relief

1235
01:41:02,000 --> 01:41:06,720
i mean we're a beautifully you know altruistic nation i truly believe that or at least we used

1236
01:41:06,720 --> 01:41:12,160
to be but at the same time that you know don't mistake my kindness for weakness you know that

1237
01:41:12,160 --> 01:41:17,600
can be abused as well so where are we at the moment and then where is that middle ground that

1238
01:41:17,600 --> 01:41:23,520
we should be yeah fortunately we've lost the country really uh we've we've been sleepwalking

1239
01:41:23,520 --> 01:41:30,000
the uk has been sleepwalking to the abyss for many many years ever since for me when margaret

1240
01:41:30,000 --> 01:41:36,720
thatcher got ousted out and john major took over that was the the slippery slope and then you had

1241
01:41:38,000 --> 01:41:44,560
then you had tony uh tony blair take over um who opened all the borders and capitulated everything

1242
01:41:45,200 --> 01:41:49,920
and you know the good friday agreement which you know for some people brought about peace in northern

1243
01:41:49,920 --> 01:41:56,320
arlen but actually let all the bad guys out as part of that that agreement we've got military

1244
01:41:56,320 --> 01:42:02,160
guys being prosecuted still and well all the bad people that have done all the bad stuff are all

1245
01:42:02,160 --> 01:42:09,120
walking free uh so yeah there's a lot of resentment in this country and a lot of it is because of the

1246
01:42:09,760 --> 01:42:16,080
immigration policy uh well we haven't got one uh if that makes sense so that that really so that

1247
01:42:16,080 --> 01:42:20,800
the the riots that we had over the weekend which were actually quite bad some of them

1248
01:42:20,800 --> 01:42:29,200
um exactly the same as what you talked about so these are normal majority are normal uh concerned

1249
01:42:29,200 --> 01:42:37,680
citizens but unfortunately they um attracts a lot of the the halfwits uh the people that have got

1250
01:42:37,680 --> 01:42:46,400
no interest really uh on demonstrating for that cause they're more intent on uh stealing uh and

1251
01:42:46,400 --> 01:42:53,200
and just causing mayhem and stuff like that and that's just a society that we're living in um i

1252
01:42:53,200 --> 01:43:01,680
you know the font of everything uh you know lots of people blame that blame culture government and

1253
01:43:01,680 --> 01:43:08,880
successive governments uh have put the uk in a position now where actually we're very very

1254
01:43:08,880 --> 01:43:14,560
vulnerable um and with what's going on in the world at the moment you know we have a very diverse

1255
01:43:14,560 --> 01:43:21,360
um population at the moment um who are actually intent on harming each other um which is the way

1256
01:43:21,360 --> 01:43:26,480
it's going at the moment you've also got to throw in the mix you've also got you know what's going

1257
01:43:26,480 --> 01:43:32,160
on in the middle east which will have massive repercussions on what's happened what's going to

1258
01:43:32,160 --> 01:43:37,200
happen here what's going to happen in the u.s uh because your your borders are pretty much open

1259
01:43:37,200 --> 01:43:43,280
as well if that makes sense so uh but it's all down to weak leadership weak governments um not

1260
01:43:43,280 --> 01:43:50,640
um not not just this one now which just happens to be the weakest of the week um but it's been

1261
01:43:50,640 --> 01:43:56,560
successive government failures uh from from way back you know margaret thatcher shen shi went

1262
01:43:57,200 --> 01:44:02,960
that that's when it all started we've got a military uh that has been decimated you know we've

1263
01:44:02,960 --> 01:44:10,560
got um they can't recruit uh there's no retention there uh police going through exactly the same

1264
01:44:10,560 --> 01:44:16,080
uh and it's and it's the police on the front line that are taking all the all the hassle and and they

1265
01:44:16,080 --> 01:44:21,120
the the unfortunately with the police here at the moment you're damned if you do and you're

1266
01:44:21,120 --> 01:44:28,560
damned if you don't and what i mean by that is uh is that there's more threat from the inner

1267
01:44:28,560 --> 01:44:34,000
side of the police force than it is from someone throwing a rock at your head and the reason being

1268
01:44:34,000 --> 01:44:41,200
is if a policeman uh pulls out his weapon uh and shoots somebody he then automatically gets suspended

1269
01:44:41,840 --> 01:44:48,960
and then goes through a very rigorous and long uh judicial process as to you know why did it

1270
01:44:48,960 --> 01:44:54,400
but the people that are trying him and and people that are judging him uh aren't people that have

1271
01:44:54,400 --> 01:44:58,720
actually pulled the gun out and actually pulled that trigger so they've not been in the same

1272
01:44:58,720 --> 01:45:03,680
situation uh and i and i think that's wrong i think the only person that can judge someone

1273
01:45:03,680 --> 01:45:08,400
for pulling a trigger is another guy that's actually been in that same position and pulled

1274
01:45:08,400 --> 01:45:13,840
the trigger uh if that makes sense because because over here you know the poor old policeman he only

1275
01:45:13,840 --> 01:45:20,240
responds to the intelligences he's been given for instance so if he's approaching a car and the car

1276
01:45:20,240 --> 01:45:27,120
has been involved in an armed robbery before then he's going to approach that car with a bit of

1277
01:45:27,120 --> 01:45:34,000
caution if that makes sense and if somebody doesn't do something that he says do then there's a very

1278
01:45:34,000 --> 01:45:39,520
good chance that he's going to pull his weapon and pull the trigger uh if i might but because he's

1279
01:45:39,520 --> 01:45:46,240
responding to what he's been told on the radio uh and and and unfortunately um you know incidents

1280
01:45:46,240 --> 01:45:53,520
happen over here where a supposed innocent criminal gets shot and then all of a sudden

1281
01:45:53,520 --> 01:46:00,720
the poor policeman is the one that's um looking at prison time uh because they're not supported

1282
01:46:01,200 --> 01:46:07,920
um so because of that attitude um they and we have it with the with the military being tried over in

1283
01:46:07,920 --> 01:46:12,720
northern ireland still you know people that's 70 years of age um still being dragged back to a

1284
01:46:12,720 --> 01:46:18,160
court to to justify a shooting over in northern ireland uh they're not getting the backup that

1285
01:46:18,160 --> 01:46:24,000
they actually deserve and when you're a serving uh policeman uh and what again you know we're having

1286
01:46:24,000 --> 01:46:29,440
it here and when the military people that have deployed um an open fire in afghanistan they're

1287
01:46:29,440 --> 01:46:34,160
now going through that same process um but when when you're a policeman and you're serving and

1288
01:46:34,160 --> 01:46:40,880
you don't get that support um quite rightly it it puts them off thinking you know why why don't

1289
01:46:40,880 --> 01:46:47,600
have joined the police in the first place so that compounded with what's going on um yeah we're a

1290
01:46:47,600 --> 01:46:53,040
bit of a tinderbox moment um in the uk at the moment um but like i say it's compounded with

1291
01:46:53,920 --> 01:46:56,640
events that are going to happen over in the middle east

1292
01:46:58,640 --> 01:47:04,480
when i look back at so many areas where countries have struggled including the uk and the us

1293
01:47:05,760 --> 01:47:11,760
the resounding common denominator is the tyrannical few deliberately dividing the masses

1294
01:47:11,760 --> 01:47:16,160
therefore you create the enemy the enemy is the labor party or the democrats or the republicans

1295
01:47:16,160 --> 01:47:20,160
or the conservatives you know or the blacks or the whites or the muslims or the christians or the

1296
01:47:20,160 --> 01:47:23,920
gays or the straights and when you name it you know you're put into a pigeonhole and then you're

1297
01:47:23,920 --> 01:47:29,520
told that's the bad guy which is what the nazis did about the jews and look what happened so this

1298
01:47:29,520 --> 01:47:34,720
is the one thing i think that we need is a massive awakening as a nation to come together because you

1299
01:47:34,720 --> 01:47:40,960
look at for example after the gremfell fire in london the beautiful community that came together

1300
01:47:40,960 --> 01:47:46,240
all these faiths and colors and creeds you know that were trying to mitigate this horrendous tragedy

1301
01:47:46,240 --> 01:47:49,840
and help these poor people that were either you know they were grieving family members or they

1302
01:47:49,840 --> 01:47:54,880
lost their home at least and so i don't know if you see the same thing but when i look back i mean

1303
01:47:54,880 --> 01:47:58,960
one thing that saved maggie thatcher was the falklands war it unified the country you know

1304
01:47:58,960 --> 01:48:03,200
and it saved her political career at that time and you know there's another phrase that goes around

1305
01:48:03,200 --> 01:48:09,520
a lot in the states i miss 912 that community that came together in new york after that tried

1306
01:48:09,520 --> 01:48:16,000
to win the states especially in new york so what is your perspective of the deliberate division

1307
01:48:16,000 --> 01:48:21,280
in the uk political side that's driving because i mean it couldn't be more apparent during covid

1308
01:48:21,280 --> 01:48:27,520
so that you know england and or the uk and here but what is your perspective of that coming from

1309
01:48:28,240 --> 01:48:33,680
a tight-knit group of of men in this case that were arguably some of the best leaders in the military

1310
01:48:33,680 --> 01:48:40,560
yeah well i must have bet they because you look at the the average the average person on the ground

1311
01:48:40,560 --> 01:48:48,640
you know the the normal civilian when he when he points out that he's concerned about immigration

1312
01:48:48,640 --> 01:48:56,560
automatically he's deemed as extreme right wing automatically when you get common civilians

1313
01:48:56,560 --> 01:49:03,440
uh you know concerned civilians uh gathering together um they're deemed as an extreme right

1314
01:49:03,440 --> 01:49:08,400
wing organization and even the government has come out and said you know they're part of

1315
01:49:09,040 --> 01:49:15,840
the idf the you know english or the edf english defense thing or more who have actually been

1316
01:49:15,840 --> 01:49:21,280
disbanded many many years uh so they're not even not even part of it but when when you got the

1317
01:49:21,280 --> 01:49:28,480
when when you got the government now uh you know um stipulating that these people and and the press

1318
01:49:28,480 --> 01:49:34,560
and everyone else jumping on that bandwagon um the simple fact is is they're not listening to

1319
01:49:34,560 --> 01:49:40,800
the people on the ground and this is politicians through and through our our political system is

1320
01:49:40,800 --> 01:49:47,840
no no longer fit for purpose at all um you've got a labor party that that's won you know a record

1321
01:49:47,840 --> 01:49:55,040
amount of seats with the fewest votes even even less than what jeremy corbyn uh voted for jeremy

1322
01:49:55,040 --> 01:50:00,720
when he got hammered and then all of a sudden you've got all these people now very left wing

1323
01:50:01,600 --> 01:50:08,160
if that makes sense so so we're a divided society people on the ground right wing uh or as a

1324
01:50:08,160 --> 01:50:13,520
government's concerned right wing extremism um but you've got politicians very left wing

1325
01:50:13,520 --> 01:50:20,640
counselors very left wing um we are a very divided and when you when you get a vote that's divided

1326
01:50:20,640 --> 01:50:27,280
in an election a bit like bretsic when we had the bretsic vote because it was so close um it was a

1327
01:50:27,280 --> 01:50:34,400
divided city it's the same with when uh trump lost to biden that was a quite a close uh was quite a

1328
01:50:34,400 --> 01:50:40,400
close call really but what that does is it divides the divides the nation uh if that makes sense

1329
01:50:40,400 --> 01:50:44,560
because no matter what biden does the trump supporters not going to agree with it whatever

1330
01:50:44,560 --> 01:50:50,960
trump does the biden supporters are not going to agree with it it's a bit the same over here so

1331
01:50:50,960 --> 01:51:00,320
we're a very divided nation uh at the moment um compounded by ireland of all things so uh all the

1332
01:51:00,320 --> 01:51:05,680
immigration they're having massive immigration problems so uh immigrants are coming over here

1333
01:51:05,680 --> 01:51:10,800
uh illegals are coming into the uk going straight over to northern ireland and then walking across

1334
01:51:10,800 --> 01:51:18,640
the border uh into into southern ireland and uh and and it and it's causing a lot of discontent

1335
01:51:19,600 --> 01:51:26,400
by the local people uh but you know again people have got to take responsibility and government

1336
01:51:26,400 --> 01:51:31,840
you know get your act together uh yeah so as far as i'm concerned we've lost it we've lost

1337
01:51:31,840 --> 01:51:37,520
uh our country because it's very difficult now to to be able to turn it around uh so me and my

1338
01:51:37,520 --> 01:51:41,920
daughter you know we go off and we teach personal safety situations and awareness training to

1339
01:51:41,920 --> 01:51:46,880
youngsters and stuff like that really because the streets are not going to get any safer uh to be

1340
01:51:46,880 --> 01:51:53,760
honest and people need to be a bit more switched on uh a bit more aware uh of what's happening on

1341
01:51:53,760 --> 01:51:58,240
the ground really uh and and how to deal with it because you've got different cultures coming

1342
01:51:58,240 --> 01:52:04,880
over here you know the the uk that you knew has totally changed now um here in heriford little

1343
01:52:04,880 --> 01:52:11,840
sleepy heriford here you know all the barbers are owned by albanians or turks and most of the

1344
01:52:11,840 --> 01:52:20,240
coffee shops are owned by turks or albanians and the drug trade is run by turks or albanians you

1345
01:52:20,240 --> 01:52:28,000
know it's a completely uh it's a completely different um atmosphere and uh way of life over here than

1346
01:52:28,000 --> 01:52:34,640
what it used to be uh if that makes any sense yeah well i think it's funny when you use the

1347
01:52:34,640 --> 01:52:40,160
example you know trump and biden or trump and clinton you have these two sides and they're

1348
01:52:40,160 --> 01:52:43,440
ready to kill each other over them and then i think there's a lot of people in the middle when

1349
01:52:43,440 --> 01:52:48,160
you actually talk to and i'm i guess i'm in an echo chamber because everyone on here is served so

1350
01:52:48,160 --> 01:52:52,240
that makes you you know a little bit more altruistic you may put your life on the line

1351
01:52:52,240 --> 01:52:57,120
for complete strangers i think you're a certain kind of human but most normal people in the middle

1352
01:52:57,120 --> 01:53:00,800
going yeah there's another question we haven't asked how the fuck did any of these people

1353
01:53:00,800 --> 01:53:05,120
get on this ballot in the first place you know you're telling me that tony blair or john major

1354
01:53:05,120 --> 01:53:11,520
are the greatest minds in the uk or that donald trump is the greatest leader like i mean this is

1355
01:53:11,520 --> 01:53:16,320
fucking ridiculous if someone came outside and then just found themselves in either of our two

1356
01:53:16,320 --> 01:53:21,840
nations they would be like yeah your system is completely broken you need to totally reinvent

1357
01:53:21,840 --> 01:53:25,920
the way that you choose these people and in america and i use this term a lot you know we

1358
01:53:25,920 --> 01:53:30,320
say it's democracy it's demistocracy because you've got to be a millionaire and you've got to have

1359
01:53:30,320 --> 01:53:34,000
no ethics take the money from the weapons manufacturers and the cigarette companies and

1360
01:53:34,000 --> 01:53:39,520
all the all the other ones that are giving you and feeding your your campaign so until we the

1361
01:53:39,520 --> 01:53:45,360
people come together and say the way we're choosing these people is clearly wrong because

1362
01:53:45,360 --> 01:53:50,640
for example with 70 percent obese and overweight winston churchill said you can measure the

1363
01:53:50,640 --> 01:53:56,480
greatness of a nation by the health of its people well there we go so these are you know i mean the

1364
01:53:56,480 --> 01:54:03,440
the failed uh war on drugs prohibition that was born out of job justification and uh racism if

1365
01:54:03,440 --> 01:54:07,760
you look at the origin story of that so we've empowered the underworld we've got all these

1366
01:54:07,760 --> 01:54:11,680
kind of gang mentality we've got our children stabbing each other in the uk and stabbing other

1367
01:54:11,680 --> 01:54:16,800
children in the uk um you know and then we have this obesity epidemic and this mental health crisis

1368
01:54:17,760 --> 01:54:22,320
clearly the way that we're choosing these leaders is wrong so until we come together and

1369
01:54:22,320 --> 01:54:28,240
shrug off this kind of separatist extremist mentality we're gonna keep getting the same

1370
01:54:28,240 --> 01:54:33,360
thing over and over again and the definition of that is insanity yeah absolutely i'll tell you

1371
01:54:33,360 --> 01:54:36,960
what guy forks had the right idea uh and maybe we can understand

1372
01:54:36,960 --> 01:54:44,880
it and just get rid of parliament completely uh if that makes sense and there the reason being is

1373
01:54:44,880 --> 01:54:52,560
you know how can you tell a politician's lying he's talking uh moving none of them you know and they

1374
01:54:53,600 --> 01:54:58,160
they get voted in because you know they they say they're going to do this and quite recently

1375
01:54:58,800 --> 01:55:06,240
um we had the leader of the leader of the labor party giving the tories a hard time when they were

1376
01:55:06,240 --> 01:55:13,600
in power uh because they were thinking about taking away the pensioners winter um fuel that

1377
01:55:13,600 --> 01:55:19,200
fuel one yeah yeah absolutely first thing you know within one month of being in power

1378
01:55:20,960 --> 01:55:24,560
that's exactly what they've done like you know and they've given it and to and they're

1379
01:55:24,560 --> 01:55:29,280
sex to save money and then they go and give a massive pay rise to junior doctors and you know

1380
01:55:29,280 --> 01:55:36,960
and and and they politicians the amount of money that they they earn uh not that they earn it to

1381
01:55:36,960 --> 01:55:42,240
be quite frank but the the amount of expenses that they they can pull in and you know people

1382
01:55:42,240 --> 01:55:48,480
with two houses oh it's just it's sickening uh but nothing changes absolutely you know we have the

1383
01:55:48,480 --> 01:55:56,240
how the young kid is stabbed to death uh by a black uh individual who came from original

1384
01:55:56,240 --> 01:56:03,360
family came from uganda i think something like that uh rwanda yeah absolutely and anyway so he uh

1385
01:56:03,360 --> 01:56:08,640
he sort of stabbed these poor kids and and then also actually yeah mental health issues hold on

1386
01:56:08,640 --> 01:56:17,040
no it isn't you know don't keep don't keep playing the mental health um card uh on people that slaughter

1387
01:56:17,040 --> 01:56:23,120
other people same as they same as the the guy again the black guy that actually tried to

1388
01:56:23,120 --> 01:56:29,680
stab the police uh sorry the military uh guy uh outside his house really and it's his wife that

1389
01:56:29,680 --> 01:56:35,040
came out and saved his life uh but again that you know they're trying to trying to sweep that away

1390
01:56:35,040 --> 01:56:39,600
because it didn't follow their narrative uh if that makes sense of you know the government

1391
01:56:39,600 --> 01:56:45,600
narrative so an easy way of calling it is rather than upsetting people uh let's call it you know

1392
01:56:45,600 --> 01:56:51,120
a sort of you know i've i've been into wars and everything like you know i i would never ever

1393
01:56:51,120 --> 01:56:58,320
ever think about you know pulling the old mental health uh card uh if i may if you're a bad guy

1394
01:56:58,320 --> 01:57:03,600
you're a bad guy admit to it own it and flip and get yourself locked away like you know um but

1395
01:57:03,600 --> 01:57:09,920
where yeah we're very yeah we're very divided and and a lot of people are resentful now are

1396
01:57:09,920 --> 01:57:18,320
politicians they don't trust them uh they're born liars um our system is completely broken uh and i

1397
01:57:18,320 --> 01:57:23,600
think i think it's copied in the u.s as well uh where people just you know they've just given

1398
01:57:23,600 --> 01:57:29,120
up on it you know i didn't even bother voting uh this year um because i just knew it was a

1399
01:57:29,120 --> 01:57:35,040
waste of time like you know uh and uh and and sadly you know but we're we're divided we're

1400
01:57:35,040 --> 01:57:41,040
a nation in trouble believe you me we are a nation and and it's because of this sleepwalking to where

1401
01:57:41,040 --> 01:57:48,800
we are now um can we recover not in my lifetime i don't think um it's going to take some massive

1402
01:57:49,600 --> 01:57:53,440
to be able to turn this around because you've got you've got it's a bit like northern ireland

1403
01:57:53,440 --> 01:58:00,080
in the old days where catholics and protesta didn't interest each other uh very dangerous volatile

1404
01:58:00,080 --> 01:58:06,880
environment um we're going to get you know all it takes is for a few people uh either either brits

1405
01:58:06,880 --> 01:58:15,360
to stab and kill and some muslims on the street or vice versa and and it'll ignite um and and it

1406
01:58:15,360 --> 01:58:22,240
was spread from city to city and bear in mind that some of the cities uh in in the uk are not

1407
01:58:22,240 --> 01:58:28,880
actually brick cities anymore you know rochdale is more of a muslim city um london's going that

1408
01:58:28,880 --> 01:58:36,800
way uh very much a muslim um enclave uh i suppose you would call it um same as other places as well

1409
01:58:36,800 --> 01:58:43,600
like you know so so we are bradford another one yeah it's uh trying times unfortunately uh in the

1410
01:58:43,600 --> 01:58:50,400
in the uk as as in a lot of places in europe as well yeah i mean with the mental health thing i

1411
01:58:50,400 --> 01:58:56,080
mean i think all malicious murder that is a mental health issue but that doesn't dismiss what happened

1412
01:58:56,080 --> 01:58:59,920
it's not the sole cause and again if there's division and then you've got the kind of lone

1413
01:58:59,920 --> 01:59:05,520
wolf mentality and i don't know what if he was groomed by any extremist organization for that

1414
01:59:05,520 --> 01:59:10,160
particular thing because it seems like such a bizarre target to choose in the first place but

1415
01:59:10,160 --> 01:59:16,240
i mean you you have people who are vulnerable to being swayed one way or another i mean great

1416
01:59:16,240 --> 01:59:21,840
example fucking adolf hitler for example little shit bag that he was um you know and that can

1417
01:59:21,840 --> 01:59:26,640
cause absolute devastation and i think this is the thing even you know with this division is that

1418
01:59:26,640 --> 01:59:32,240
there are so many people from different backgrounds and you know colors and religions you know i think

1419
01:59:32,240 --> 01:59:37,840
most of us are so proud to be british so proud to be american i mean you know i walk outside my

1420
01:59:37,840 --> 01:59:42,400
front door where i live and all colors and creeds and our kids play together and we say hi and we

1421
01:59:42,400 --> 01:59:48,880
walk our dogs but if you allow yourself to be divided that hateful extremist few are going to

1422
01:59:48,880 --> 01:59:53,040
project their views on everyone and then you are going to see this division like you said and this

1423
01:59:53,040 --> 01:59:58,160
projection of race war in america like most places we all get on really well because we see the

1424
01:59:58,160 --> 02:00:03,680
humanity in each other but if you allow yourself to buy into that and now you've got the you know

1425
02:00:03,680 --> 02:00:08,720
the clan member on one side and the black panther member on the other and now yeah like you said

1426
02:00:08,720 --> 02:00:14,800
you've you've got this this war escalating where most of the innocents are going to get caught up

1427
02:00:14,800 --> 02:00:20,080
just like they did in world war two and all these other conflicts and you know we seem doomed to

1428
02:00:20,080 --> 02:00:25,440
allow history to repeat itself because we are constantly allowing this tyranny to propagate

1429
02:00:25,440 --> 02:00:33,280
over and over again yeah it's funny you know because we were involved in bosnia and we saw

1430
02:00:33,280 --> 02:00:39,280
the real bad side of ethnic cleansing you know from different divisions and that lot

1431
02:00:39,840 --> 02:00:44,400
and i always have flashbacks with that one thinking flipping oh just imagine that happening in the

1432
02:00:44,400 --> 02:00:52,640
uk like you know with you know brits and muslims and blacks and all sorts of going against each

1433
02:00:52,640 --> 02:00:58,000
other like you know it's just just manic but as i as i keep going on about you know it's it's

1434
02:00:58,000 --> 02:01:03,920
successive governments that have got us to this point and and but nothing will change absolutely

1435
02:01:03,920 --> 02:01:09,520
not you know so we had the three kids that were sort of nothing changes and knife crime still

1436
02:01:09,520 --> 02:01:15,440
going up same as rural crime still going up and we're here in britain we're very we're very

1437
02:01:15,440 --> 02:01:22,480
reactive mindset uh to criminals anything else and and you know we don't do anything until that

1438
02:01:22,480 --> 02:01:29,120
summer actually happens to us and then we'll think about doing it rather than being quite rightly

1439
02:01:29,120 --> 02:01:34,240
proactive and that includes the police so the police when they were getting stoned and bottled

1440
02:01:34,240 --> 02:01:40,240
and everything else um you know you just look at the telly going flipping get stuck in there get

1441
02:01:40,240 --> 02:01:46,000
get the old buttons out and start cracking some skulls and then put them put them on the back

1442
02:01:46,000 --> 02:01:51,200
foot like you know uh but they weren't they unfortunately they're following a policy that

1443
02:01:51,200 --> 02:01:57,840
actually puts the police in harm's way sadly um you know because they um you know when you when

1444
02:01:57,840 --> 02:02:06,720
you're getting when you've got no uh reactive mindset um or no proactive mindset sorry um it

1445
02:02:06,720 --> 02:02:13,680
does put people in harm's way so yeah trying trying times unfortunately uh here uh europe um

1446
02:02:14,320 --> 02:02:19,920
predominantly here because you know we're with the uk because we're such a small nation but

1447
02:02:19,920 --> 02:02:26,160
massively overpopulated uh there's no real you know i live out in the rural heritage here so nice and

1448
02:02:26,160 --> 02:02:33,680
quiet uh but certainly in the inner cities you know there's some parts of the uk um i actually

1449
02:02:33,680 --> 02:02:43,280
found more intimidating than walking around legos uh or baghdad or wherever um purely because of the

1450
02:02:43,280 --> 02:02:49,200
you know the divisions within that within that city like you know the dynamics changing uh when's

1451
02:02:49,200 --> 02:02:53,280
the last time you were in the uk mate matter of interest um actually i only i've been back

1452
02:02:53,280 --> 02:02:57,920
of several times because i had some family issues to mitigate so i've been back three times in the

1453
02:02:57,920 --> 02:03:05,920
last year i took my son back um god only two months ago now so recently right silly question

1454
02:03:05,920 --> 02:03:13,600
uh are you a bath supporter rugby um i again i grew up in the 80s watching i mean not so much

1455
02:03:13,600 --> 02:03:17,760
in rugby and football watching people stab each other over 11 dudes in short shorts so i never

1456
02:03:17,760 --> 02:03:22,880
really got into supporting the team but yeah when i was younger obviously i had a you know an affinity

1457
02:03:22,880 --> 02:03:28,640
to bath rugby but i don't watch rugby that much i only watch football every two years i just watch

1458
02:03:28,640 --> 02:03:32,960
the euro and then i'll watch the world cup in a couple years but yeah i like i like playing

1459
02:03:32,960 --> 02:03:38,160
sports more than watching sports yeah well i must because me and my daughter are staunch leicester

1460
02:03:38,160 --> 02:03:45,200
tiger fans uh rugby um and they the reason being is it's football the mentality of these people

1461
02:03:45,200 --> 02:03:50,960
uh that watch football is totally different to the mentality you know of uh of watching rugby

1462
02:03:50,960 --> 02:03:55,680
like you know um you know the different world different mindset and we're fairly local to

1463
02:03:56,320 --> 02:04:02,960
glosster uh so when gloss are playing the tigers we made my daughter go down there uh annoy all the

1464
02:04:02,960 --> 02:04:08,640
glosser fans with our leicester shirts and standing there and it's called the shed and we stand in with

1465
02:04:08,640 --> 02:04:14,160
all the glosser fans annoying them because we always win apart from last year um but it's great

1466
02:04:14,160 --> 02:04:20,640
because it's really good banter you don't get that football um you know it's very tribal um

1467
02:04:20,640 --> 02:04:27,680
and uh and you know never never again never again would i watch football well speaking of your

1468
02:04:27,680 --> 02:04:32,640
daughter let's transition from you know your military career into what you're doing now

1469
02:04:32,640 --> 02:04:36,960
um and then let's talk about the start with with the the safety of young people especially in

1470
02:04:36,960 --> 02:04:45,040
schools yeah so i two years ago i was in the hag i was head of security for a company called sb i'm

1471
02:04:45,040 --> 02:04:53,360
offshore for 15 years initially based in lagos nigeria then moved up to monaco sipping my pink

1472
02:04:53,360 --> 02:04:58,880
champagne and then three years there i was on the verge of resigning because i didn't like monaco

1473
02:04:59,520 --> 02:05:06,320
to be honest um you know when you're a military guy monaco is a bit too quiet so they moved us

1474
02:05:06,320 --> 02:05:13,360
up to the hag we got an office in amsterdam at skipple at the airport uh so i lived in the hag

1475
02:05:13,360 --> 02:05:17,520
didn't want to didn't want to live in amsterdam amsterdam's a bit like london good for a weekend

1476
02:05:18,240 --> 02:05:24,960
not so good for their being there all the time so i i lived in the hag so seven years later so two

1477
02:05:24,960 --> 02:05:32,400
years um last may or two years may gone by um i i just decided that i wanted to do something

1478
02:05:32,400 --> 02:05:40,320
different uh so wrote a book uh called life on the edge um unfortunately the author died um

1479
02:05:40,320 --> 02:05:46,800
um so we class it as a co-author uh so it's co-written book uh but the co-writer

1480
02:05:46,800 --> 02:05:54,320
and nicol johnson uh she passed away uh about 10 weeks ago now uh but she was very ill uh for the

1481
02:05:54,960 --> 02:06:00,720
for about nine months before that so we put the book on hold really uh because i wanted to finish

1482
02:06:00,720 --> 02:06:07,040
it with her um and it's a book about helping people uh it's not a typical bravo s e f bravo

1483
02:06:07,040 --> 02:06:15,280
two zero type book um it's it's more akin to um the the personal side of an sas guy you know the

1484
02:06:15,280 --> 02:06:22,000
marriage side of it and you know the kids and all that type of stuff and and using a sort of biography

1485
02:06:22,000 --> 02:06:27,840
type mentality uh is just going through the the hiccups that we have in life and and how you

1486
02:06:27,840 --> 02:06:33,760
circumnavigate it you know plan b that didn't work okay don't worry about it no dramas plan b

1487
02:06:33,760 --> 02:06:39,200
uh we'll do this based on some of the stuff that we went through uh and unfortunately so she passed

1488
02:06:39,200 --> 02:06:47,360
away so there's a young lady uh from scotland who knows nickel uh who is going to finish the book so

1489
02:06:47,360 --> 02:06:54,080
the first chapter is going to be um a remembrance type chapter uh about nickel and then the final

1490
02:06:54,080 --> 02:06:58,880
chapter is all about what me and my daughter have been doing for the last or 10 months or 12 months

1491
02:06:58,880 --> 02:07:03,760
or whatever uh if i may and then then it'd be good to go so the timeline is is we're hoping to get it

1492
02:07:03,760 --> 02:07:10,080
finished by march next year to coincide with the hay festival uh because the hay festival is just

1493
02:07:10,080 --> 02:07:16,960
down the road from here uh so i would be classed as a local local author uh which would be great

1494
02:07:16,960 --> 02:07:22,640
so so we've done that that's done and dusted um but on the on the other side uh is because i've

1495
02:07:22,640 --> 02:07:30,000
been in the security industry for 22 years um i'm not a big fan of security companies um

1496
02:07:30,880 --> 02:07:38,080
so i decided to start my own security company up um but it's it's called hawks and co and it's me

1497
02:07:38,080 --> 02:07:42,880
and my daughter at the moment and i've got three boys in the military so hopefully that they will

1498
02:07:42,880 --> 02:07:51,040
come and they will come and join us at some stage uh and uh and they the the idea by it uh was to

1499
02:07:51,040 --> 02:07:59,600
help youngsters um adults um vulnerable people uh so we do personal safety and situational awareness

1500
02:07:59,600 --> 02:08:05,360
um and then my daughter does breakaway uh and restraint stuff and all that so the physical

1501
02:08:05,360 --> 02:08:10,480
side of it my daughter does and the reason being is my daughter is uh she's of the same ilk as my

1502
02:08:10,480 --> 02:08:17,680
three boys uh but she's a girly girly uh she's got a fearsome left hook um and uh and she's very

1503
02:08:17,680 --> 02:08:23,360
good at what she does uh if i may because she's actually taught by some very good people uh who

1504
02:08:23,360 --> 02:08:27,920
sort of took her under a wing and and she's more believable uh you know when you're when you're

1505
02:08:27,920 --> 02:08:33,680
teaching kids uh personal safety situation awareness so one in good being an excess as guy

1506
02:08:33,680 --> 02:08:40,320
uh but the kiddies don't actually uh relate to you they'll relate to keeling so having that soft side

1507
02:08:40,320 --> 02:08:44,960
uh if that makes sense so when it comes to all the physical side of it she does it

1508
02:08:44,960 --> 02:08:50,000
because they can see how easy it is to do a breakaway uh by using the body mechanics

1509
02:08:50,000 --> 02:08:55,280
because self-defense is not for everyone um you know and and what we're trying to do is we're

1510
02:08:55,280 --> 02:09:00,640
trying to we're trying to give confidence to everyone and you can only teach certain

1511
02:09:00,640 --> 02:09:06,880
individuals self-defense and for them to take it in and actually for them to practice it on the ground

1512
02:09:07,520 --> 02:09:13,520
different in a gym uh if that makes sense so uh with breakaway it's more it's more acceptable

1513
02:09:13,520 --> 02:09:18,160
for them to you know okay if someone's strangling me yes i can push the elbows in and i can

1514
02:09:18,880 --> 02:09:26,720
force them away but it's all good to um keeping yourself out of trouble so break away move away

1515
02:09:27,280 --> 02:09:33,600
if that makes sense it's not about getting into to trouble so so trying to make it more believable

1516
02:09:33,600 --> 02:09:41,120
really and more realistic for the average normal person uh if that makes sense and and and that

1517
02:09:41,120 --> 02:09:45,920
and that's gone really well at the moment but on the on the back of that um we are trying to get

1518
02:09:45,920 --> 02:09:53,280
into the rural farm industry uh reason being when i did my undercover days and and working with mi5

1519
02:09:53,280 --> 02:09:59,520
you know we we got very good at breaking into places so on the back of that covertly uh so if

1520
02:09:59,520 --> 02:10:05,280
you can covertly break into somewhere uh it means you're better than the people that normal normal

1521
02:10:05,280 --> 02:10:09,680
you know it's easy to smash a window and break in but trying to covertly get in there so we're

1522
02:10:09,680 --> 02:10:14,480
very good at what we do which is why we're going to be going down there and talking about

1523
02:10:14,480 --> 02:10:22,000
penetration testing of organizations um because we're you know we're pretty good so um so to help

1524
02:10:22,000 --> 02:10:30,160
a farmer so i live on a farm uh and it's the old uh poacher term gamekeeper mentality and unfortunately

1525
02:10:30,160 --> 02:10:37,120
here uh in the uk it's the same as farms all around the world there is zero security culture

1526
02:10:37,120 --> 02:10:43,440
on a farm you can walk on any farm with a with a high visibility vest uh with nfu the national

1527
02:10:43,440 --> 02:10:50,480
farming union logo on the back wave at somebody and then walk over to a car and steal the car and

1528
02:10:50,480 --> 02:10:55,840
drive away reason being all the cars all the keys have got uh all the cars have got keys in the

1529
02:10:55,840 --> 02:11:02,640
ignition because that's the culture uh of the the farming industry and that's why they're deemed as

1530
02:11:02,640 --> 02:11:10,480
very easy targets um you know the crime rate over in the uk for farmers is astronomical um

1531
02:11:11,280 --> 02:11:16,240
because that you know the criminals are very very clever in them you know they're not in jail for

1532
02:11:16,240 --> 02:11:24,080
very good reason they're good at what they do um and unfortunately and i excuse the pun uh but

1533
02:11:24,080 --> 02:11:35,600
the farms are deemed as cash cows really to uh criminals uh because they're they're easy and they and farmers work really really hard you know they they keep the economy going

1534
02:11:36,160 --> 02:11:42,880
um they don't have a lot of money so the way we go about helping them is um we'll go and do a little

1535
02:11:42,880 --> 02:11:48,480
security assessment with them which is not going to cost them a penny um and then we will all the

1536
02:11:48,480 --> 02:11:53,040
recommendations for security we'll actually do with them you know we'll help you do this you know

1537
02:11:53,040 --> 02:11:59,600
and because if you give a farmer a lot of security recommendations you might as well write that in

1538
02:11:59,600 --> 02:12:06,000
swahili and give it to him because he's going to read it and not interested and if there's a massive

1539
02:12:06,000 --> 02:12:10,800
bill at the end of it he ain't going to do it because these farmers don't have a lot of money

1540
02:12:11,520 --> 02:12:19,760
so what we're trying to say is listen insurance companies nfu you employ me any farm that gets hit

1541
02:12:19,760 --> 02:12:26,320
um you know uh rural crime attack on it uh we'll go and help them because what happens at the moment

1542
02:12:26,320 --> 02:12:32,960
is a farmer will call the police to say that there's a robbery the police won't respond because

1543
02:12:32,960 --> 02:12:38,240
they're very undermanned and underfunded so they'll just give a crime report uh number

1544
02:12:38,960 --> 02:12:44,640
they'll put the phone down they'll then um the insurance companies will replace a tractor that's

1545
02:12:44,640 --> 02:12:52,720
been stolen six months later brand new tractor stolen again um because that cycle doesn't change

1546
02:12:53,680 --> 02:12:59,200
so what we're what we're saying is listen you employers to any farm that gets broken into

1547
02:12:59,200 --> 02:13:04,720
we'll go down there and we'll improve the security by doing a bit of training with them spend two or

1548
02:13:04,720 --> 02:13:09,280
three days down there a bit of training trying to change that culture that that security culture

1549
02:13:09,280 --> 02:13:15,520
improve the security of the farms um you know make sure that they that what happened last time is

1550
02:13:15,520 --> 02:13:23,280
going to happen again give them confidence about dealing with um confrontation uh because over here

1551
02:13:24,000 --> 02:13:29,360
uh the police automatically say listen if there's a confrontation uh just go and lock yourself in

1552
02:13:29,360 --> 02:13:33,680
your barn or go and lock yourself in your house and call the police but the police ain't going to

1553
02:13:33,680 --> 02:13:40,640
respond uh so that doesn't give the farmers any confidence at all uh so you know so we me and my

1554
02:13:40,640 --> 02:13:45,840
daughter deal with confrontation and and how you can escalate it or majority of the time is how to

1555
02:13:45,840 --> 02:13:52,960
de-escalate it uh if need be uh and all we're doing is trying to give the farmer and his family a bit

1556
02:13:52,960 --> 02:13:59,680
more confidence uh if that makes sense um so that right so the cost to the farmer zero nothing at

1557
02:13:59,680 --> 02:14:04,560
nothing at all so if it's not going to cost the farmer anything because you know what you're using

1558
02:14:04,560 --> 02:14:10,080
you're using all the assets on the farm but in a way that you're you're going to improve the security

1559
02:14:10,880 --> 02:14:17,840
you see cc green camera up there is pants let's move it to a different location lighting really

1560
02:14:17,840 --> 02:14:22,880
poor let's move your light over here um better lateral thinking right you don't want people to

1561
02:14:22,880 --> 02:14:29,680
go into that field let's go and get these planks of wood stick a load of six inch nails in there

1562
02:14:29,680 --> 02:14:34,640
camouflage it up no one's going to go in that field or if they do they're certainly not going

1563
02:14:34,640 --> 02:14:41,040
to get back out again a bit of lateral thinking uh if that makes sense and they're all at zero cost

1564
02:14:42,160 --> 02:14:47,360
and and so if a farmer reads a report and he knows it's not going to cost him anything to improve his

1565
02:14:47,360 --> 02:14:53,680
security there's a good chance that he's going to improve his security because it's it's of no cost

1566
02:14:53,680 --> 02:15:00,000
when you give a farmer something that's going to cost him 40 grand and 40 000 pounds to improve

1567
02:15:00,000 --> 02:15:03,600
then they're not going to do it they're going to rip it up and you know i can't afford that

1568
02:15:03,600 --> 02:15:09,920
and it so nothing changes uh if i make sense but trying to get that across to the farming industry

1569
02:15:09,920 --> 02:15:16,720
is very difficult because they're very set in their ways uh they're very reliant on uh the

1570
02:15:16,720 --> 02:15:23,280
rural crime units coming to the rescue um but the rural crime units are very undermanned and very

1571
02:15:23,280 --> 02:15:28,800
underfunded you know there's i was down wilkshire not that long ago uh giving a presentation to the

1572
02:15:28,800 --> 02:15:34,320
rural crime units down there and they've got eight people to cover the second biggest county

1573
02:15:35,200 --> 02:15:42,480
in england it's just madness you know and you and also the the farmers don't have a lot of

1574
02:15:42,480 --> 02:15:49,680
um respects probably a bit of a harsh word but they they don't have confidence uh in the police's

1575
02:15:49,680 --> 02:15:54,000
ability to be able you know when when you ring up say i've lost 40 000 blah blah blah

1576
02:15:54,800 --> 02:15:59,120
and the police come back say uh okay here's the crime number you know that they're not going to

1577
02:15:59,120 --> 02:16:05,040
come out to to investigate and and and again all them all them bridges that were there before

1578
02:16:05,040 --> 02:16:13,040
uh are slowly collapsing if that makes sense so yeah we we we just feel that we by putting an arm

1579
02:16:13,040 --> 02:16:19,760
around people uh we can we can help people now i've been in the industry too long uh to worry

1580
02:16:19,760 --> 02:16:23,840
about you know how much money am i going to make for doing this which is what the security companies

1581
02:16:23,840 --> 02:16:30,160
do believe you me first and foremost for the security company how much can we make by approaching

1582
02:16:30,160 --> 02:16:36,480
this guy first and foremost it should be the other way around how can i help you what's your budget

1583
02:16:36,480 --> 02:16:42,560
yeah we'll we'll make it work uh if that makes sense you know we we quite recently i went down

1584
02:16:42,560 --> 02:16:49,280
to dartmoor to help a farmer down there and a good friend of mine said mek how much is it going to

1585
02:16:49,280 --> 02:16:55,040
cost to come down i said listen tell the farmer it's going to he can pay for the fuel uh to get

1586
02:16:55,040 --> 02:17:00,960
me down there and and make me a bacon sandwich when i get there and we spent five hours on the farm

1587
02:17:00,960 --> 02:17:08,000
improving his security um quite recently we got asked by the security industry uh they they said

1588
02:17:08,000 --> 02:17:15,120
mek can you run six sessions with your daughter doing this that and the other um how much is it

1589
02:17:15,120 --> 02:17:21,680
going to cost and i went how much are you paying the other people and she she said this i said well

1590
02:17:21,680 --> 02:17:28,320
that that'll do me you know if you're paying people that who am i to say no i i want this amount

1591
02:17:28,320 --> 02:17:33,760
you know because we're all doing we're all in the same game of helping people uh so it's it's trying

1592
02:17:33,760 --> 02:17:39,440
to be pragmatic and realistic um when you're dealing with because people don't have a lot of money

1593
02:17:40,000 --> 02:17:47,840
uh in security to be honest schools for instance don't have big budgets so work within you know

1594
02:17:47,840 --> 02:17:54,080
work with the schools uh and work within budget uh if that makes sense rather than trying because

1595
02:17:54,080 --> 02:17:59,440
you know if you say to a school um this is how much it's going to cost you they'll bulk they'll

1596
02:17:59,440 --> 02:18:05,440
bulk straight away and so ultimately the people that you want to help don't get the help that they

1597
02:18:05,440 --> 02:18:11,440
they really need um because the person in charge can't afford to can't afford to do it and and that

1598
02:18:11,440 --> 02:18:18,720
seems to be the problem so that's why we started uh hawks and co uh to uh ready to help people

1599
02:18:19,840 --> 02:18:27,440
i grew up on a farm in like i said in caution and uh it butted up against a um mod base so ironically

1600
02:18:27,440 --> 02:18:33,040
we were talking about you know ireland earlier when they were bombing on the homeland um on the

1601
02:18:33,040 --> 02:18:37,280
mainland excuse me you know we had to sweep the car for bombs we had the little stick with the

1602
02:18:37,280 --> 02:18:41,200
mirror and which is you know awesome as a small child who just hope that you're not going to get

1603
02:18:41,200 --> 02:18:46,080
blown up on the way to school but i when i think about the farm you know there were a lot of uh

1604
02:18:47,040 --> 02:18:51,440
soft areas because you know you haven't yeah you might have a fence but i mean these fences you can

1605
02:18:51,440 --> 02:18:56,720
climb in in a moment but when i think about what was good though aside from the shotguns that we

1606
02:18:56,720 --> 02:19:02,480
had in the house was the german shepherds that we had roaming everywhere and they were phenomenal

1607
02:19:02,480 --> 02:19:08,640
deterrents so taking that you know much larger scale rural model which you know not many people

1608
02:19:08,640 --> 02:19:13,520
are probably listening are on a farm at this moment what are the principles that you apply

1609
02:19:13,520 --> 02:19:18,320
to any sort of security whether it's a farm or whether it's a flat because when i think about

1610
02:19:18,320 --> 02:19:24,320
as a firefighter there's so many facades of security and i know for example the fire alarms

1611
02:19:24,880 --> 02:19:29,040
and then you know security alarms for the police department are yeah we will respond

1612
02:19:29,040 --> 02:19:35,040
non-emergency but 99 percent of the time they're bullshit so it really creates complacency when i

1613
02:19:35,040 --> 02:19:40,000
think about windows and doors i mean you know we have to get in to go get the people we know how

1614
02:19:40,000 --> 02:19:45,280
how flimsy they actually are in real life so what are some of the principles that maybe people aren't

1615
02:19:45,280 --> 02:19:50,000
thinking about that they can apply to their you know whether it's like i said an apartment a flat

1616
02:19:50,000 --> 02:19:56,080
or their farm that maybe are contrary to what these security companies are selling them with

1617
02:19:56,080 --> 02:20:03,200
their alarms and their cameras and all the things yeah think like a criminal think like a criminal

1618
02:20:03,200 --> 02:20:10,080
and and the reason the reason i say that and that's all part of this security culture i'm not a fan

1619
02:20:10,080 --> 02:20:18,000
of cctv monitoring devices on farms until the farmer has actually got security culture because

1620
02:20:18,000 --> 02:20:23,360
you'll spend thousands putting all these gadgets and then the farmer will leave the gate open

1621
02:20:23,360 --> 02:20:27,840
uh if that makes sense and it's just a waste of money and bear in mind that you've got 20 people

1622
02:20:27,840 --> 02:20:35,840
working on a farm maybe so that's 20 potential cctv units walking around but they just need to

1623
02:20:35,840 --> 02:20:41,680
be guided in the right so for anyone anyone doing anything you know before you can get out of the

1624
02:20:41,680 --> 02:20:49,600
car just think um how a criminal will operate so when i'm locking my door at night uh you know when

1625
02:20:49,600 --> 02:20:54,320
you know when i'm leaving you know i'm stood outside would a criminal be able to get in here

1626
02:20:54,320 --> 02:21:00,960
have i left a window open no yes go in there shut the window and stuff like that uh it's all about

1627
02:21:00,960 --> 02:21:06,800
you know putting yourself in the shoes of the bad people uh because if you can think like a criminal

1628
02:21:07,600 --> 02:21:14,320
you can you can deter uh and and you know what what they'll can to what they're they're about

1629
02:21:14,320 --> 02:21:20,800
to do if that makes sense and that's really the the simplistic uh approach really uh of doing it

1630
02:21:20,800 --> 02:21:28,160
but always always have a security culture about you before you even think about investing in lots

1631
02:21:28,160 --> 02:21:33,760
of money which like i say is totally wasted um if you've got people that have got no security

1632
02:21:33,760 --> 02:21:40,320
culture uh because they'll just leave the gate open uh and again that's my dig at security companies

1633
02:21:40,320 --> 02:21:45,040
because they you know they they make a lot of money uh by recommending this that and the other

1634
02:21:45,920 --> 02:21:52,160
but they tend to invest they don't invest in the actual individual um who's supposedly going to

1635
02:21:52,160 --> 02:21:57,360
operate and that and that's over here uh rural crime actually is at its peak between one o'clock

1636
02:21:57,360 --> 02:22:04,320
in the morning at four in the morning they've all got masks on cctv wasted time um alarm goes off

1637
02:22:04,320 --> 02:22:08,080
wasted time no one's going to respond at four o'clock in the morning or three o'clock in the

1638
02:22:08,080 --> 02:22:12,400
morning because the police are not operating uh so no one's going to respond so that doesn't worry

1639
02:22:12,400 --> 02:22:18,320
them monitoring devices not worried no no one's going to respond to it uh so all that gadgetry

1640
02:22:18,320 --> 02:22:23,920
just absolutely goes out the window so right here we go i'm gonna i'm gonna break into this barn oh

1641
02:22:23,920 --> 02:22:31,280
right okay so they've locked it you know they've had the the the fore the foresight ready to to

1642
02:22:31,280 --> 02:22:35,920
actually lock it uh and stash things away and and this that and the other and that's what we're

1643
02:22:35,920 --> 02:22:41,200
trying to that's what we're trying to get across to the farmers really is is do the basics right

1644
02:22:41,840 --> 02:22:48,160
because at the moment security for a farmer is a chore and when you've got 50 chores to do on a farm

1645
02:22:48,800 --> 02:22:56,160
uh safety and security tend to be at the bottom of the list but if you can get a security culture

1646
02:22:56,160 --> 02:23:03,120
going it no longer becomes a chore that becomes second nature and so you know taking the key out

1647
02:23:03,120 --> 02:23:08,880
of the ignition becomes second nature a bit like a bit like the fire service a bit like us you know

1648
02:23:08,880 --> 02:23:17,200
i teaching uh situation awareness we try to explain to people my situation awareness has come from 50

1649
02:23:17,200 --> 02:23:22,640
years working in the security industry and the military surviving battlefields blah blah blah

1650
02:23:22,640 --> 02:23:29,200
you know all this stuff um that's that's where i am with my situation awareness you can't read a book

1651
02:23:29,200 --> 02:23:35,840
uh you can't listen to someone talking and become situationally aware um you could you understand

1652
02:23:35,840 --> 02:23:42,800
the theory behind it and it comes it really comes with you then going out practicing it uh you know

1653
02:23:42,800 --> 02:23:49,280
every single day before it becomes second nature so as you step outside of your door you look left

1654
02:23:49,280 --> 02:23:56,000
and right and just see what's on the street before you go to it before as you walk into your car to

1655
02:23:56,000 --> 02:24:02,720
your car to get in it your keys are out and they're in your hand so as soon as you get to your car you

1656
02:24:02,720 --> 02:24:08,960
can lock your door get in and you're away if that makes sense but females especially um and i always

1657
02:24:08,960 --> 02:24:15,120
have a dig at females on the thing uh car park car parks are a hive especially at night time for

1658
02:24:15,120 --> 02:24:21,040
criminality and uh and unfortunately for the ladies uh you know they they have huge handbags

1659
02:24:21,040 --> 02:24:26,960
um and it literally takes them 10 minutes to find their car keys criminals know that you know i mean

1660
02:24:26,960 --> 02:24:34,960
and so if you can get into the habit ladies uh walk into your car with your car key in your hand

1661
02:24:35,440 --> 02:24:42,320
so as soon as you're at the car bang doors open in locked and away you go uh it's doing the basics

1662
02:24:42,320 --> 02:24:49,360
right uh if that makes sense and just thinking uh thinking like a criminal uh is probably the

1663
02:24:49,360 --> 02:24:55,760
the easiest way of uh of sort of doing it i want to hit one more quick topic and then close this

1664
02:24:55,760 --> 02:24:58,960
out because we've been talking almost two and a half hours i want to be mindful of your time

1665
02:24:58,960 --> 02:25:05,360
let you let your dogs out um but when we are looking reactively because right now that's where

1666
02:25:05,360 --> 02:25:11,120
you know we are in the uk and i'm not going to go on the the personal weapon side because i know

1667
02:25:11,120 --> 02:25:16,880
in the uk especially people's hands are so tied as far as what they can carry but the armed police

1668
02:25:16,880 --> 02:25:22,560
have had on the show um talking about the the lack of support like you said the the cases against

1669
02:25:22,560 --> 02:25:28,720
some of these officers and the massive kind of hand in of uh of that specialty by a lot of the

1670
02:25:28,720 --> 02:25:37,200
the met police um what needs to happen as far as the armed response i i came from england to america

1671
02:25:37,200 --> 02:25:42,480
had a very kind of you know anti-gun mentality when i first got here and i'll be completely honest i

1672
02:25:42,480 --> 02:25:46,560
did weapons training you know i didn't own a gun but i did weapons training but then i was locked

1673
02:25:46,560 --> 02:25:52,080
into my son's school his elementary school when they had their first ever code red actual code

1674
02:25:52,080 --> 02:25:57,040
red they thought someone was coming in to kill children and i realized how fucking vulnerable

1675
02:25:57,040 --> 02:26:01,520
these children these teachers everyone that was in there and i was literally thinking about pulling

1676
02:26:01,520 --> 02:26:05,920
the guillotine off the paper no guillotine machine and like all right let's say i've got i got a blade

1677
02:26:05,920 --> 02:26:10,960
that's what i can and who knows what he or she has got if they come through the door thank god it was

1678
02:26:10,960 --> 02:26:16,080
uh not a false alarm but the person never actually did what they threatened to do but it really

1679
02:26:16,080 --> 02:26:22,080
opened my eyes and now i've i've owned a glock and i've had one for a long time and my my mind

1680
02:26:22,080 --> 02:26:27,520
shifted not from i'm going to walk around like john wane but i am a firefighter and a paramedic

1681
02:26:27,520 --> 02:26:32,720
i have a diverse toolbox well in that i need to have something that counters someone that walks

1682
02:26:32,720 --> 02:26:39,760
into a taylor swift you know yoga studio and start slashing six to ten year olds and you know a

1683
02:26:39,760 --> 02:26:47,520
ballistic vest and a gun are a great way to oppose that so what is your kind of philosophy on on what

1684
02:26:47,520 --> 02:26:52,400
armed policing at the moment ultimately it would be beautiful if we could reduce the weapons in the

1685
02:26:52,400 --> 02:26:58,640
uk and get back to the environment that you and i grew up in but at this moment in 2024 what should

1686
02:26:58,640 --> 02:27:05,200
the armed policing model look like yeah it's uh i'm a big believer now i've been in mine i've done a

1687
02:27:05,200 --> 02:27:11,600
lot of undercover stuff uh if that makes sense so armed and my last two years in the scs was i used

1688
02:27:11,600 --> 02:27:17,840
to run the cqb so close quarter battle so for guys going undercover uh strike and operations if that

1689
02:27:17,840 --> 02:27:25,280
makes sense so so i i'm a big believer now that uh we've gone past the point in the uk of people

1690
02:27:25,280 --> 02:27:32,080
not being armed and when you have so many people now uh for instance that guy with a knife uh you

1691
02:27:32,080 --> 02:27:38,400
can't you can't take on criminals that are more heavily armed than what the police are um but you

1692
02:27:38,400 --> 02:27:44,400
can't just say right policeman here we go uh here's your weapon you know the whole concept needs to

1693
02:27:44,400 --> 02:27:50,400
change um you know all the police in northern ireland carry weapons uh now northern ireland

1694
02:27:50,400 --> 02:27:57,840
call me old-fashioned uh is part of the uk so why can't we copy that model and bring it over

1695
02:27:57,840 --> 02:28:04,800
into into england scotland wales and stuff like that because we it's it's now beyond really uh

1696
02:28:04,800 --> 02:28:11,360
asking the police uh to put their lives on the line with a baton or with a taser when you're up

1697
02:28:11,360 --> 02:28:17,280
against a guy who's got a weapon and when i mean a weapon i also mean a sword as well uh bearing

1698
02:28:17,280 --> 02:28:23,680
in mind that a knife and a sword can do just as much damage uh than a than a shot uh a shotgun or

1699
02:28:23,680 --> 02:28:30,960
whatever like you know so yeah i'm i'm all for uh the police in the uk being armed uh but it

1700
02:28:30,960 --> 02:28:37,040
it has to change because if you once you pull that trigger um and we had a philosophy really uh

1701
02:28:37,040 --> 02:28:41,840
slightly different you know sas mentality um we had a philosophy that if you were going to pull

1702
02:28:41,840 --> 02:28:46,720
your weapon um never think twice um and always always have in the back of your mind that it's

1703
02:28:46,720 --> 02:28:52,800
always better to be tried by 12 and carried by six um and if in doubt you know take them on like

1704
02:28:52,800 --> 02:28:58,000
you know uh unfortunately with the police here uh a lot of the police have been handing their weapons

1705
02:28:58,000 --> 02:29:05,440
in um purely because internally uh you know they're damned if they do and damned if they don't like

1706
02:29:05,440 --> 02:29:11,840
you know and it's a it's a nasty culture knowing that if you do pull your weapon uh that you're

1707
02:29:11,840 --> 02:29:18,080
not going to get any support so i'm all for arming the police but you also have to bring in a culture

1708
02:29:18,080 --> 02:29:24,320
of you know like like in our days in the sas and you have to support that individual

1709
02:29:24,800 --> 02:29:30,560
and no matter what when he pulls the trigger you have to support that individual as to why

1710
02:29:30,560 --> 02:29:36,880
he pulled the trigger sometimes you you're going to get you're going to get a um accidents that

1711
02:29:36,880 --> 02:29:44,640
happen and we understand that um but you know that's not damn someone instantly uh just because in

1712
02:29:44,640 --> 02:29:52,240
his mindset uh he was taken on uh taken on a bad guy like you know so it's yeah i'm all for arming

1713
02:29:52,240 --> 02:29:58,960
but it's very easy to say that uh it's very difficult to get that that mentality

1714
02:29:58,960 --> 02:30:05,040
and culture within the police force uh right you know so let's let's get you know let's get northern

1715
02:30:05,040 --> 02:30:12,320
ireland uh police people over into the uk to to try and establish that culture but we're we're

1716
02:30:12,320 --> 02:30:18,480
way past that that point now uh of police being unarmed on the street you know it's just madness

1717
02:30:18,480 --> 02:30:24,320
it just puts the it doesn't give the the police any confidence at all uh you ask a policeman to

1718
02:30:24,320 --> 02:30:30,960
walk down a dark alley uh and uh you know there's possibility of two or three guys down there that

1719
02:30:30,960 --> 02:30:35,360
may have a weapon call me old-fashioned but the policeman ain't going to walk down there

1720
02:30:35,360 --> 02:30:42,160
um and uh because you haven't given him the tools and the confidence to to do that like you know uh

1721
02:30:42,160 --> 02:30:47,600
so yeah so that's my philosophy right is uh is we should all be on all the police should be armed

1722
02:30:48,080 --> 02:30:56,960
um but it's not that simple um you know it needs to the whole culture uh needs to uh needs to change

1723
02:30:56,960 --> 02:31:03,520
uh to support the police i you know i do feel feel for the police uh they're in a real sticky

1724
02:31:03,520 --> 02:31:10,640
situation they're following a real guff completely guff policy uh you know you look at metropolitan

1725
02:31:10,640 --> 02:31:15,920
police at the moment the metropolitan police don't think for themselves unfortunately the the lord

1726
02:31:15,920 --> 02:31:24,160
mayor uh dictates how they do their policy that then goes to the commissioner uh the metropolitan

1727
02:31:24,160 --> 02:31:28,880
commissioner who then filters that down to the the actual actual people on the ground like you know

1728
02:31:28,880 --> 02:31:35,760
and that's why you see uh the very softly softly approach to people waving banners uh

1729
02:31:37,040 --> 02:31:45,040
supporting terrorism people carrying knives uh or swords um as you know if it's part of a uh part

1730
02:31:45,040 --> 02:31:51,200
of a protest or whatever like you know so um yeah it needs to change completely but yeah arm them

1731
02:31:52,560 --> 02:31:58,640
one of the the armed police response guys made a really good point if we don't support excuse

1732
02:31:58,640 --> 02:32:03,120
me if we don't support those teams which i know sometimes train you know with you guys i mean

1733
02:32:03,120 --> 02:32:09,760
they're trained by the most elite war fighters on the planet um and we don't support them then

1734
02:32:09,760 --> 02:32:14,560
eventually as you said they'll give guns to all the police officers are going to have to and now

1735
02:32:14,560 --> 02:32:19,120
you've got you know the best police officers but also the worst and we're all completely familiar

1736
02:32:19,120 --> 02:32:24,880
with those videos of our worst police officers in the uk and and the u.s and you're giving them a

1737
02:32:24,880 --> 02:32:31,040
gun what is the likelihood of a bad shoot after that why are we not supporting the people that

1738
02:32:31,040 --> 02:32:36,560
are highly trained and holding them to a high standard before we have a complete you know

1739
02:32:36,560 --> 02:32:42,320
saturation of firearms which is going to amplify the possibility that one of your loved ones is

1740
02:32:42,320 --> 02:32:47,280
shot by mistake by some incompetent you know police officer holding a firearm because now

1741
02:32:47,280 --> 02:32:52,160
it's out of necessity rather than proactively training the elite teams and supporting them in

1742
02:32:52,160 --> 02:32:57,840
their actions yeah absolutely you know and that's all to do with that recruiting thing in the first

1743
02:32:57,840 --> 02:33:02,640
place because at the moment they the way the recruits are picked in the police force it's

1744
02:33:02,640 --> 02:33:08,160
more geared towards education as opposed to you know knowledge on the ground streetwise you know

1745
02:33:08,160 --> 02:33:13,120
young kids from the estate some of these kids on the estate would make fantastic police officers

1746
02:33:13,120 --> 02:33:17,840
because often know what the criminals get on with when you've been you know sent to university for

1747
02:33:17,840 --> 02:33:23,680
years your college university you're not really that you know a street copper if that makes sense

1748
02:33:23,680 --> 02:33:30,400
and so they the whole policy of it so if you're if you're thinking right now you know we need to

1749
02:33:30,400 --> 02:33:35,200
edge our way toward not only specialist units within the police but everybody now is going to

1750
02:33:35,200 --> 02:33:40,720
be armed then then that all comes down to a different way you recruit your people like you

1751
02:33:40,720 --> 02:33:46,720
know it's a bit like the military and you know you need people that are a bit more robust and

1752
02:33:46,720 --> 02:33:52,800
you know and and change it so it's not a case of let's arm everybody now and and gonna but no the

1753
02:33:52,800 --> 02:33:58,960
whole the whole needs to change but unfortunately we're you know not only the specialist units the

1754
02:33:58,960 --> 02:34:05,120
armed response units um you know because they can only take some so long we do a lot of active

1755
02:34:05,120 --> 02:34:12,160
shooter training i was in houston about 18 months ago doing a company over there um because they

1756
02:34:12,160 --> 02:34:18,080
like the brits because we're a bit more down to earth um if you american security guy yeah

1757
02:34:18,080 --> 02:34:23,120
ballistic doors but yeah you know seven floor of an office building ballistic door here ballistic

1758
02:34:23,120 --> 02:34:27,600
door they are going to cost you a million dollars uh no you don't you don't need any of that crap

1759
02:34:27,600 --> 02:34:32,880
get rid of that um which is why you know the centers over there like you know but more down

1760
02:34:32,880 --> 02:34:39,680
to earth um but when we you know when we we we do the active shooter training type stuff it's all

1761
02:34:39,680 --> 02:34:48,240
geared to um uh trying to uh trying to one try to get away uh if i may say but we follow the american

1762
02:34:48,240 --> 02:34:56,320
approach um because we know over here they do a murdering terrorist attack training active shooter

1763
02:34:56,320 --> 02:35:02,080
um well they call it murderous but it's all geared to a police response now you and i know

1764
02:35:02,720 --> 02:35:08,560
that any any terrorist incident that's going to occur or an active shooter is going to be done

1765
02:35:08,560 --> 02:35:15,120
dusted and finished before the police turn up if that makes sense so you need to everybody needs

1766
02:35:15,120 --> 02:35:21,760
to be a bit more robust um you know how we go about uh how how to protect ourselves our loved

1767
02:35:21,760 --> 02:35:27,520
ones and everything else so we follow the american thing of run high fight um over here it's run high

1768
02:35:27,520 --> 02:35:33,120
tail um run high fight is how we we do it because we're not bothered now i'm not thinking about a

1769
02:35:33,120 --> 02:35:38,400
police response and bear in mind how you respond when the police turn up can actually get you shot

1770
02:35:38,400 --> 02:35:44,480
or the police themselves uh if that makes sense so uh yeah so it's all so slightly different

1771
02:35:44,480 --> 02:35:51,040
mentality um now we've got a thing called martin's law um it's not a martin's law so this is this you

1772
02:35:51,040 --> 02:35:59,120
know after manchester uh bombing um there's a young lady whose son died in it um and uh and she's been

1773
02:35:59,120 --> 02:36:04,080
pushing for this martin's law good honor god bless her for doing it but that was seven years ago

1774
02:36:04,080 --> 02:36:11,200
mate seven years ago seven years in the night and it's still not been sort of pushed through and

1775
02:36:11,200 --> 02:36:18,560
everything else uh which is ridiculous so since the paris attacks 2015 uh we've been all around

1776
02:36:18,560 --> 02:36:23,040
the world teaching all our officers active shooter what to do if you're involved in terrorist

1777
02:36:23,040 --> 02:36:29,840
incident and the way we go about it is when they when the police teach it um go down when the

1778
02:36:29,840 --> 02:36:34,800
police teach it what they do is they they pick certain individuals within the company to play a

1779
02:36:34,800 --> 02:36:42,960
key role you know if as a you know a code red as you call it play a key role now that's great

1780
02:36:44,080 --> 02:36:48,640
until that key player gets the back of his head shot off you know what i mean so we don't do that

1781
02:36:49,840 --> 02:36:58,800
we teach everybody from the cleaner to the ceo to the principal to everybody gets taught what

1782
02:36:58,800 --> 02:37:03,360
their options are when there's an active shooter and what you know what to do this that and the

1783
02:37:03,360 --> 02:37:08,640
other and the reason being is what you're what you're hoping on the day uh is somebody comes to the

1784
02:37:08,640 --> 02:37:14,000
fall really um because people that think their leaders are great up until someone starts shooting

1785
02:37:14,000 --> 02:37:20,000
at them um because you don't know how you're going to react until you've actually been shot at uh and

1786
02:37:20,000 --> 02:37:27,280
that's true so rather than just teaching you know certain individuals self-important people that

1787
02:37:27,280 --> 02:37:33,440
that you know yeah i'm going to be the one no you're not so it's a matter of you know making

1788
02:37:33,440 --> 02:37:39,040
sure that everybody goes through the training so that they everybody understands what their options

1789
02:37:39,040 --> 02:37:46,400
are and then you just go for it and then hope on the day that that it all works out if that

1790
02:37:46,400 --> 02:37:50,880
might and that's all you can do but you've got you've got to give people the tools and they

1791
02:37:50,880 --> 02:37:58,000
the knowledge of understanding what their options are when a code red gets gets called

1792
02:37:58,480 --> 02:38:02,240
and just otherwise you've got people running around like like headless chickens

1793
02:38:02,800 --> 02:38:07,760
and and nothing gets done like you know but but you you were right alluded to there you know

1794
02:38:08,960 --> 02:38:15,120
if you can't if you can't escape find yourself a weapon you know a fire extinguisher the guillotine

1795
02:38:15,120 --> 02:38:21,840
blade as you mentioned there is perfect uh but do something uh because doing nothing uh so if you've

1796
02:38:21,840 --> 02:38:26,320
got a nice big room like this and a guy walks in the door with an ak-47 there's 20 of you in there

1797
02:38:26,880 --> 02:38:35,760
uh and there's no exit and you do nothing at all 20 people dead but if if one of two of you decide

1798
02:38:35,760 --> 02:38:42,960
to go for it and try to overpower him and three or four people get killed doing that but you know

1799
02:38:42,960 --> 02:38:49,760
they managed to overpower him that means 16 people managed to survive like you know so having that

1800
02:38:49,760 --> 02:39:00,000
mentality uh is how you uh get yourself through uh through adversity uh if that makes sense um

1801
02:39:00,000 --> 02:39:05,440
yeah it's a difficult way it's not the nicest subject to teach but unfortunately in this day

1802
02:39:05,440 --> 02:39:11,200
now especially in the states um it's something that everybody needs to understand uh and just

1803
02:39:11,200 --> 02:39:17,360
know what your options are and it's it's not geared towards specific individuals um you know

1804
02:39:17,360 --> 02:39:24,800
a cleaner is just as adept at surviving a shooting incident than any security guy or any

1805
02:39:25,760 --> 02:39:32,240
ceo or any big wig manager and sometimes it's that cleaner that actually comes to the fore

1806
02:39:33,200 --> 02:39:39,120
and you know because they the poor old manager has just been shot or you know has suddenly realized

1807
02:39:39,120 --> 02:39:45,760
it's not nice being shot at so i'm out of it uh if that makes sense so yeah it's um we're trying to

1808
02:39:45,760 --> 02:39:53,840
keep a yeah a level head on things uh especially especially subjects that are not nice to to teach

1809
02:39:53,840 --> 02:39:59,520
but you know people need to understand it absolutely well i think it's a beautiful place to round off

1810
02:39:59,520 --> 02:40:04,800
so for people listening you got the book that will be coming out um and then you've got hawks and co

1811
02:40:04,800 --> 02:40:09,680
your businesses that's kind of growing and growing now where are the best places online to find you

1812
02:40:09,680 --> 02:40:18,480
on online itself or on social media yeah we're very loud and vocal uh linkedin um on the first

1813
02:40:18,480 --> 02:40:27,360
and foremost um there's a a nice person called sebastian uh who's over in jersey who does all my

1814
02:40:27,360 --> 02:40:35,360
social media for linkedin not linkedin instagram and all that sort of stuff so so he does that um

1815
02:40:35,360 --> 02:40:40,000
we we're actually doing quite a lot quite a few podcasts i've actually just got two emails

1816
02:40:40,800 --> 02:40:47,600
from american companies uh that want to do podcasts with us because of what they've seen before

1817
02:40:47,600 --> 02:40:53,760
uh it's a bit like you you you got our attention obviously uh because you saw one of our podcasts

1818
02:40:53,760 --> 02:41:00,960
um and then and and that's really how and for us you know i like doing podcasts purely because

1819
02:41:00,960 --> 02:41:07,600
it gets us out there it you know gives us a voice uh to to explain what we're what we're all about

1820
02:41:07,600 --> 02:41:14,400
really uh and uh but hopefully by the next uh you know i know my hair's getting a bit long now and

1821
02:41:14,400 --> 02:41:19,600
i'm on tuesday tomorrow i'll be down there getting it cut but not short and i'm just going to get the

1822
02:41:19,600 --> 02:41:26,960
curls cut out well i want to thank you so so much um we've gone all over the place kind of and

1823
02:41:26,960 --> 02:41:32,240
obviously there's a lot of conversation about you know the the war on terror that kind of period of

1824
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military history but to dive into the forklings of some of the other conversations and then

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your perspective on you know the division and the violence and you know school safety and farm

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safety has been incredible so i want to thank you so much for being so generous with your time and

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coming on the behind the shield podcast today uh my absolute pleasure and i'm just surprised that

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they the dogs were well behaved that got me a little fight i've got two french bulldogs and

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they they can be uh they like plenty of attention